# New Cree XHP in a 3535 package!



## foxtrot824 (Jul 16, 2015)

http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Landing-pages/lowersystemcost


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## PapaLumen (Jul 16, 2015)

ooh, XHP35 [email protected] And a HI (dedomed) version..


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## Steve K (Jul 16, 2015)

wow! 

1800 lumens from a 3.5mm x 3.5mm footprint! That ought to cut the cost of the optics for a light, but getting the heat out of that little package will require a fancier heatsink design than if it was a plain 3 watt LED. 

I'll have to think if this is a good excuse to design a new light for my bicycle.


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## poiihy (Jul 16, 2015)

Holy crap! 4022 lumens from a 7x7 led! Wow! Compare that to a 4022 lumen fluorescent lamp or HID or... incandescent!!


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## AB8XL (Jul 16, 2015)

Looks like they all require a higher forward voltage too. 

XHP35 - 11.3 V @ 350 mA
XHP50 - 5.75 V White @ 1400 mA (6 V) 11.5 V White @ 700 mA (12 V)
XHP70 - 5.8 V White @ 2100 mA (6 V) 11.6 V White @ 1050 mA (12 V)


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## foxtrot824 (Jul 16, 2015)

yoyobrotha said:


> Looks like they all require a higher forward voltage too.
> 
> XHP35 - 11.3 V @ 350 mA
> XHP50 - 5.75 V White @ 1400 mA (6 V) 11.5 V White @ 700 mA (12 V)
> XHP70 - 5.8 V White @ 2100 mA (6 V) 11.6 V White @ 1050 mA (12 V)



Indeed, I'm thinking boost circuit which would make it flexible to many battery setups.


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## m.pille.led (Jul 17, 2015)

WOW!!! Cree is making pretty good new leds....
I`m impressed.
Basicaly 4 times the lumen output and less than 3times the consumption than a XPG2, and all of this at the same dimensions of a XPG2
Apart from that the heat synking shouldn`t be the problema, it always depends on the way they are driven and many other aspects, but the XPG2 has a termal resistance of 4ºC/W and the Xhp35 has a termal resistance of 1,8ºC/W.
This means 
XPG2 - 4.9w*4 = 19.6ºC @ 510 lumen
Xhp35- 13w*1.8 = 23.4ºC @ 1800 lumen

So driving them at similar percentages of the maximum drive current of each led, there will only be required a litle more heat synking for the Xhp35

Regards

PS: Is any one planing to build something with a Xhp35?


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## Mr. Tone (Jul 19, 2015)

Some good things on the horizon with new LEDs, but not good for the wallet.


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## mercrazy (Jul 19, 2015)

are these multi chip LEDs?


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## m.pille.led (Jul 19, 2015)

The Xhp35 seems to be a single chip led.
If you take a look at the Xhp35 HI, you See only 1 chip, 

altrough this dedomed "high intensity" led only brings 1400 lumen instead of 1800lumen from the original Xhp35 With exactly the same power consumtion.(13w)


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## RetroTechie (Jul 19, 2015)

m.pille.led said:


> The Xhp35 seems to be a single chip led.
> If you take a look at the Xhp35 HI, you See only 1 chip,


I kind of doubt that, for either type. A single white power LED typically has ~3V forward voltage (or a _bit_ higher), and this holds true across power ranges, manufacturers, form factors etc. So unless Cree has opened up an entirely new area in LED-related science, a Vf of 11-12V _automatically_ means it's a multi-die part. If it's not visible, that only means the interconnects & separation between LED dies is made so thin / small (or transparent!) you can't see it with the naked eye. Doesn't mean it's not there.



> altrough this dedomed "high intensity" led only brings 1400 lumen instead of 1800lumen from the original Xhp35 With exactly the same power consumtion.(13w)


Yeah a 'dedomed' LED doesn't output more light... The point of these LEDs is to maximise *surface brightness.* And thus (indirectly), throw of a flashlight that was designed to be a thrower. Not maximum output as in lumens - get the regular XHP35 for that.


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## AB8XL (Jul 19, 2015)

It appears the XHP35 is a single die utilizing a new monolithic power die according to articles I have seen.


http://www.solidstatelighting.net/cree-boosts-lumen-output-of-3-5mm-single-die-led-by-50-percent/

http://www.cree.com/News-and-Events...-New-Performance-Standard-for-High-Power-LEDs


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## RetroTechie (Jul 19, 2015)

Hmm interesting, checking those links it seems you guys may be right. oo:

Perhaps Cree has found a way to integrate multiple light-emitting semiconductor junctions in such a way, that the whole structure looks & behaves like a single die LED.

Or they've modified the semiconductor junction such, that it's actually a "11~12V typical" structure (as opposed to the ~3V typical Vf for white LEDs).

Either of which would be a breakthrough indeed. Well at least a little one...


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## mercrazy (Jul 19, 2015)

i'm limited to 12 volt battery power source. overhead voltage requirement is a problem with my current driver for this new LED. what driver would you guys recommend? thanks


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## Steve K (Jul 19, 2015)

mercrazy said:


> i'm limited to 12 volt battery power source. overhead voltage requirement is a problem with my current driver for this new LED. what driver would you guys recommend? thanks



when you say 12V, what is the actual voltage range that you expect the battery to be? For example, most lead-acid 12V batteries would be close to 13.8V or more when charged, and ?? when it's time to recharge.

It's also going to depend on how much light you are trying to get out of the LED. At low currents, you might still get enough light from the LED and have a forward voltage significantly under 12V.

For a voltage source that's fairly close the LED forward voltage, a linear regulator can be as efficient as a switcher. The On-Semi CAT4101 might be a good solution for your application.


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## RoGuE_StreaK (Jul 20, 2015)

So what's a good (cheap+simple) boost system to get a single li-ion up to spec for the 6V'ers?


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## monkeyboy (Jul 20, 2015)

The domed XHP35 is most interesting to me. They must have significantly increased the die size over the XP-L to achieve 1833lm @13W. What's interesting about the XHP35 is the fact that it's a monolithic die with a Vf of ~12V. This will give the throw of a single die emitter while being easy to drive like a multi die emitter.
I look forward to the next generation of lights featuring this new LED.


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## IMSabbel (Jul 20, 2015)

IF its a monolithic die, I really wonder how they get that kind of Vf. Vertical stacking of pn-junctions?


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## poiihy (Jul 20, 2015)

You mean boost; buck means to reduce voltage while boost means to increase voltage. You want to increase voltage so you need a boost converter.


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## HumanLumen (Jul 20, 2015)

IMSabbel said:


> IF its a monolithic die, I really wonder how they get that kind of Vf. Vertical stacking of pn-junctions?



There are 4 dies arranged in a square - see page 36/37 of the datasheet. Can't determine the size of the dies though. They look a little bigger than 1.0mm x 1.0mm


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## AB8XL (Jul 20, 2015)

The four quadrants on the die is more evident in the photo on page 36, I just don't see any bond wires. Must be that SC5 Technology their speaking of, gotta love it.


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## monkeyboy (Jul 21, 2015)

Yes you can definitely see 4 distinct quadrants on p37 of the data sheet, but there appears to be no gap between them. Cree claim that it's a monolithic die here, so I assume this means that everything is on the same chip.


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## Overclocker (Jul 21, 2015)

RoGuE_StreaK said:


> So what's a good (cheap+simple) boost system to get a single li-ion up to spec for the 6V'ers?




well acebeam and fenix already outed their MT-G2 single li-ion. zebralight is working on their mk3 driver. the future is bright 

here's acebeam's H10 next to the zebralight. 2000 lumens


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## IMSabbel (Jul 21, 2015)

HumanLumen said:


> There are 4 dies arranged in a square - see page 36/37 of the datasheet. Can't determine the size of the dies though. They look a little bigger than 1.0mm x 1.0mm



Ah thanks. Missed that pic when looking through the spec sheet.
Makes sense.
Measured out the pics and got 1.2mm die size, with nearly zero gap between them.

This gives about 45% bigger die surface than an XM-l.

Thinking about it, it might really be a single die, but just seperated in serial dies via ion milling or injection. Would save a lot of money if they don't have to individually cut and place the sub-dies.


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## SemiMan (Jul 24, 2015)

It is a single die.


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## monkeyboy (Jul 26, 2015)

Cutter already have the XHP35 bare emitter in stock but only in a maximum of D4 bin. According to the Cree product characterisation tool, the D4 bin XHP35 is slightly outperformed by the V6 bin XP-L at comparable drive levels (Watts), although the XHP35 goes all the way up to F2 bin on the Cree product characterisation tool.

The flux binning sequence of the XHP35 goes: B2, B4, C2, C4, D2, D4, E2, E4, F2


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## light-modder (Jul 26, 2015)

Mouser had them too. I was gonna get a couple but don't have a way of driving a 12V led currently.


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## monkeyboy (Jul 26, 2015)

The D4 (flux) bin is not really worth getting IMO. In terms of performance per mm^2 die area, I'd estimate that the XP-L V6 (flux) is roughly equivalent to a XHP35 E4 (flux). Therefore current technology should allow for an E4 (flux) bin.

NOTE: We need to be careful not to confuse flux binning with colour binning with the XHP35. e.g. E2 is both a flux bin and colour bin code and has a completely different meaning in each case.


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## 18650 (Jul 26, 2015)

m.pille.led said:


> WOW!!! Cree is making pretty good new leds.... I`m impressed. Basicaly 4 times the lumen output and less than 3times the consumption than a XPG2, and all of this at the same dimensions of a XPG2 Apart from that the heat synking shouldn`t be the problema, it always depends on the way they are driven and many other aspects, but the XPG2 has a termal resistance of 4ºC/W and the Xhp35 has a termal resistance of 1,8ºC/W. This means XPG2 - 4.9w*4 = 19.6ºC @ 510 lumen Xhp35- 13w*1.8 = 23.4ºC @ 1800 lumen So driving them at similar percentages of the maximum drive current of each led, there will only be required a litle more heat synking for the Xhp35 Regards PS: Is any one planing to build something with a Xhp35?


 This doesn't look right... doesn't 12 volt imply it's just 4 LED's stuck together?


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## monkeyboy (Aug 5, 2015)

Cutter now has E2 flux bins in 5000K on noctigon boards.


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## LEDealer (Aug 6, 2015)

18650 said:


> This doesn't look right... doesn't 12 volt imply it's just 4 LED's stuck together?


The junction voltage of most LED technologies on the market is ~3.0V. You just need to have multiple junctions in series on a single die to get to 6,9,12,...24,...48...96V... You could also several discrete die in a package to achieve the same effect, but it's a bit more complicated.


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