# Fenix HL21



## Mr Floppy (Apr 11, 2011)

Looks like Fenix have an upgrade to the HL20. 

http://www.fenixlight.com/viewnproduct.asp?id=92

They have linked their pictures again to an internal IP address but you can see them here. I'm not directly linking them for leeching issues so you'll have to copy and paste.

The pictures and specs look like they are work in progress. Looks like an XPG upgrade. Not the best in terms of specs though I have to say. 

http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216319568.jpg
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216326246.jpg
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216334677.jpg
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216340959.jpg

Modes:
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/2011421642234.jpg
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216411219.jpg

http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216418586.jpg
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216425833.jpg
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216431559.jpg
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216437222.jpg
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216446944.jpg

Runtime:
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216452779.jpg

Specs:
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216457490.jpg


----------



## vtunderground (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks for posting this, but I have to ask...

Fenix, how is this an upgrade? The HL20 and HL21 are both listed as using the Cree XP-E (R2) emitter. The new HL21 is rated at 15 fewer lumens than the old HL20 (90 vs 105). The biggest difference that I can see is that they HL21 has a chunkier body than the old HL20. Am I missing something?


----------



## Sarratt (Apr 11, 2011)

I agree about it being a questionable upgrade. 
The only thing I can think of is that the 'new' HL21 is using the ANSI/SFC method of lumen measurement.
Emitter lumen vs. 'actual' out the front lumens ?


----------



## B0wz3r (Apr 11, 2011)

It looks like it's just a new body/housing for the light and a change to ANSI ratings for the output. Probably exactly the same light engine and driver.

I never found the HL20 to be that compelling of a product, and this one similarly doesn't have much to offer me. If they offered it in a neutral XPG I might consider it, but as is, it's not for me.


----------



## Bolster (Apr 11, 2011)

Another explanation might be, that Fenix discovered a much less expensive way to manufacture the light. The benefit may be to them, rather than to us, the users.

Agree with Bowzer, offer it in a neutral tint and it gets more interesting.


----------



## robostudent5000 (Apr 11, 2011)

more like an update rather than an upgrade.


----------



## Mr Floppy (Apr 11, 2011)

vtunderground said:


> The HL20 and HL21 are both listed as using the Cree XP-E (R2) emitter



I know that the specs in text said that but having a look at the LED in picture made me wonder. 
http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216334677.jpg

You have to zoom in but the contacts on the board look square where as the XRE has a thinner rectangular strip. The board looks squarish where as the XPE is more rectangular and has a ring around die. 

The other indicator is the 2 hours and 3 minutes runtime on high compared to the 1.8 hours on HL20. Mind you, that's only around 15 more minutes on high and they may have changed the way they measured it.

90 lumens could be an indicator of a warm/neutral tint in the XPG range not just neutral. I think 100 lumens with 2 hours 24 minutes is what the cool XPG can get normally so unless the circuit is less efficient in some way. 

Maybe more of an update but if it's neutral/warm, that would make things interesting. Comes in yellow or black so I wonder if that has any bearing on what the LED will be?


----------



## robostudent5000 (Apr 12, 2011)

don't XP-E and XP-G emitters look pretty much the same? I can't tell the difference just by looking at them. 

looking through the pics, it looks like they at least routed the headband correctly through the buckles this time. the original band on the hl20 was routed wrong and slipped easy unless you took it apart and rerouted it.


----------



## Mr Floppy (Apr 12, 2011)

They do look similar and the picture from fenix are not that clear. It's just a guess really. The easiest way is to get close and see how many strips it has on it. 3, XPE, 4 XPG. Describing the XPE as more rectangular isn't right either actually. The XPE just appears more rectangular as the die is smaller and the extra bits of the circuit board gives that appearance. 

Comparing the two front on, might give a better indication but still, just a guess.
HL20: http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20091214161225735.jpg
HL21: http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/20114216334677.jpg


----------



## robostudent5000 (Apr 12, 2011)

Mr Floppy said:


> They do look similar and the picture from fenix are not that clear. It's just a guess really. The easiest way is to get close and see how many strips it has on it. 3, XPE, 4 XPG.


 
gotcha. looking at the pics in this post helped me see what you mean. still, the emitters are so small you have to get super close to even have a chance to see the strips.


----------



## B0wz3r (Apr 12, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> gotcha. looking at the pics in this post helped me see what you mean. still, the emitters are so small you have to get super close to even have a chance to see the strips.


 
You *can* tell the difference by looking, but it's not easy to do. IIRC, the XPE is 1 mm square and the XPG is 2 mm square, so there is a size difference between them. When I need to, I can tell the difference between my Quark 123^2 XPE/Q3-5B head and my XPG/R4-5A head by comparing them side by side, but again, it's not easy and takes some time for me to come to the correct ID for each. (That's why I used a silver fine point sharpie on my 123^2 head and filled in the ring around the bezel with the silver ink, so I can ID that one high voltage head at a glance from all my other low voltage Quark heads.)


----------



## Sarratt (Apr 13, 2011)

so is it actually brighter ?


----------



## B0wz3r (Apr 13, 2011)

For a given level of input, an XPG will produce more light than an XPE. But, it will not necessarily appear brighter because of differences in the concentration of the beams. A lot of it depends on the reflector and how well designed it is. No matter the emitter, a poorly designed reflector will lose light and/or create artifacts in the beam.


----------



## robostudent5000 (Apr 14, 2011)

Mr Floppy said:


> That's 3 strips there. XPE for sure,a nd look at that pin hole in the hotspot!



the pinhole was only there because the light was so close to the wall. pull it away 6-12 inches and the hole goes away.


----------



## Mr Floppy (Apr 15, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> the pinhole was only there because the light was so close to the wall. pull it away 6-12 inches and the hole goes away.


I don't remember that being the case with the HL20. It could be that HL21 has a smooth reflector and the HL20 has the orange peel stippling.


----------



## ico (Aug 14, 2011)

So the rating for the HL20 is not ANSI?


Which do you think is better? the HL20 or the HL21?


----------



## robostudent5000 (Sep 16, 2011)

i noticed this was discussed on other places but not here.

one of the real differences between the HL20 and the HL21 seems to be that the HL21 is flatter front-to-back than the HL20 and doesn't have the problem of the headlamp body scraping against the bracket/holder when the lamp is rotated. so the HL21 rotates a lot more freely inside the holder than the HL20 does.


----------



## Ian2381 (Oct 6, 2011)

Anyone know if I could easily replace the led in the HL21? Planning to replace the LED with High CRI XPG or Neutral XML.


----------



## robostudent5000 (Oct 6, 2011)

if the head is made the same as the HL20 it won't be easy. datiLED's HL20 mod thread.


----------



## Ian2381 (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks for the link.

It seems to be difficult to mod. Crap...


----------



## Woods Walker (Oct 10, 2011)

I gifted a HL21. For some reason I prefer my HL20. Seemed brighter and had a better beam. I never did find another diffuser for the HL20.


----------



## fedcas (Dec 12, 2011)

is it possible to use 14500 on it?


----------



## heniekk (Jan 29, 2013)

Ian2381 said:


> Anyone know if I could easily replace the led in the HL21? Planning to replace the LED with High CRI XPG or Neutral XML.





robostudent5000 said:


> if the head is made the same as the HL20 it won't be easy. datiLED's HL20 mod thread.



It might be helpful for somebody who wants to refresh his hl21. Opposite to hl20 head is unscrewable. Led mod is safe&easy.







[/IMG]



[/IMG]


----------

