# Looky what the brown truck brought today!



## Mirage_Man (Mar 21, 2008)

My friend in the big brown truck brought me a new toy today....

A brand new Bison 6", 6-Jaw, Set-Tru chuck. I've been lusting for one of these for quite some time now and just couldn't take it anymore. I had to order one.  I plan to use this lathe for a little while longer until I can afford a newer more beefy one. I will of course move the chuck to the new machine when I do.

I still have to machine the back plate to true it up to the spindle and then adjust the chuck. It will have to wait however because I need a test bar to dial it in. It sure is pretty isn't it? It's funny though because I spent as much on it and the back plate as I did for the lathe itself! :laughing:


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## pmath (Mar 21, 2008)

Swoon! That it totally awesome. Wouldn't fit on my minilathe however ;-(

Peter


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## adamlau (Mar 21, 2008)

How much does something like that run?


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## Torque1st (Mar 21, 2008)

Congratulations!!!! -Now get back to work! :devil:


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 21, 2008)

adamlau said:


> How much does something like that run?



Depends on where you get it. Enco was the least expensive I could find. J & L was nearly twice as much! So it pays to shop around, that's for sure.


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## cmacclel (Mar 21, 2008)

I have wanted one myself for sometime but the 6" only has a 1.535 through hole which does not work for me  

I'd have to buy the 8"

Mac


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 21, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> I have wanted one myself for sometime but the 6" only has a 1.535 through hole which does not work for me
> 
> I'd have to buy the 8"
> 
> Mac



Hmmm, not sure where you're getting that figure? It's 1.654", plenty big enough to fit a Mag D body.


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## cmacclel (Mar 21, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> Hmmm, not sure where you're getting that figure? It's 1.654", plenty big enough to fit a Mag D body.


 

Click on your link to show the item in the Enco Master Catalog. It lists the Enco / Bison chuck at 1.535. It seems to be an Enco Error.

Mac


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 21, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> Click on your link to show the item in the Enco Master Catalog. It lists the Enco / Bison chuck at 1.535. It seems to be an Enco Error.
> 
> Mac



Mac, you're looking at the through hole for the "Enco" version of the chuck. If you look to the right under "Bison" the hole is 1.654". I can assure you it's right. In fact mine is slightly more than the stated 1.654".


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## cmacclel (Mar 21, 2008)

I didn't look to the right of the table......  My bad. My lathe uses a D1-5 6" or 8" chuck to bad they don't have a easy drop on replacement.

Mac


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 21, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> I didn't look to the right of the table......  My bad. My lathe uses a D1-5 6" or 8" chuck to bad they don't have a easy drop on replacement.
> 
> Mac



They do Mac. You just get the chuck you want and the Back plate adapter to match your spindle. The link here is to J&L. Enco shows an 8" D1-5 but not 6". They probably have one though I'd bet. But if they don't carry it J&L does.


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## cmacclel (Mar 21, 2008)

I saw they had the 8" adapter plate but I would want the 6" as from going 6" to 8" is like $300 more. Also the 8" chuck weighs 20lbs more.

Mac


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 21, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> I saw they had the 8" adapter plate but I would want the 6" as from going 6" to 8" is like $300 more. Also the 8" chuck weighs 20lbs more.
> 
> Mac



OK let me make this easy for you.

6" Bison Set-Tru Chuck from Enco
6" D1-5 Back Plate Adapter from J&L 

Enco always has free shipping codes for orders over $50. Currently it's "WBMP8". You just enter it in the box at the top of the shopping cart.

J&L has a 15% off code and that's "CAT15".

Like I said before I can almost garuantee that Enco has a 6" D1-5 adapter plate. I bet it's just not listed. But if not J&L has it.


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## cmacclel (Mar 21, 2008)

Brain can you drive over and install it for me to 

Thanks for the Help

Mac


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## frisco (Mar 21, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> OK let me make this easy for you.
> 
> 6" Bison Set-Tru Chuck from Enco
> 6" D1-5 Back Plate Adapter from J&L
> ...



Hey Mirage_Man,

Can you make it easy for me?
Do these 6 jaw chucks fit on my:
Grizzly G0602 10" x 22" Bench Top Metal Lathe

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22-Bench-Top-Metal-Lathe/G0602

Thanks, frisco


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## SafetyBob (Mar 21, 2008)

Very, very nice chuck indeed. You have motivated me to seriously look at one too. I imagine you and I are finding our old equipment (mostly worn out) is still OK, but I am finding that finally I am getting better at this stuff and am really ready to go to the next level....or at least your little titanium project sure indicated that you are!!

My lathe is about twice the size of yours as I take a D1-6 adapter which means 8 inch minimum size. That's alot of cash that would be going for lights....but, if I can get out to the garage and prove to myself that I can rethread a [email protected], then I believe I will be looking to do a couple of upgrades to the old machine and finally set it up properly and ensure everything is as perfect as I can get it.

Bob E.


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## modamag (Mar 21, 2008)

*Mirage_Man: *Brian, congrats on the new acquisition. Did you check the run with a 1" stock @ 0" and 6" from the chuck?

*cmacclel: *Stop giving all those excuse. It's time my friend to join the 6-jaw crowd.

*frisco: *Your lathe is a Seig C6 variant. You can find back plate adapter with littlemachineshop.com or lathemaster.com It will most likely will not show up in their inventory, but if you call them they will. I bought mine from Bob (lathemaster.com) several years back. You will also need to modify it a little for the six holes. Take a look at what BobW did here.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Mar 21, 2008)

That is a SWEET hunk of functional metal!!!

And I don't know the first thing about how to use one!


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 21, 2008)

frisco said:


> Hey Mirage_Man,
> 
> Can you make it easy for me?
> Do these 6 jaw chucks fit on my:
> ...



I'm not sure. The specs according to the Grizzly info says you have a 1-3/4" x 8 TPI threaded spindle. I don't see that type of back plate on either site. That doesn't mean it's not available. You certainly could make one if need be.


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 21, 2008)

modamag said:


> *Mirage_Man: *Brian, congrats on the new acquisition. Did you check the run with a 1" stock @ 0" and 6" from the chuck?



Not yet. I need to get a piece of precision shafting.



modamag said:


> *cmacclel: *Stop giving all those excuse. It's time my friend to join the 6-jaw crowd.



:laughing: 



modamag said:


> *frisco: *Your lathe is a Seig C6 variant. You can find back plate adapter with littlemachineshop.com or lathemaster.com It will most likely will not show up in their inventory, but if you call them they will. I bought mine from Bob (lathemaster.com) several years back. You will also need to modify it a little for the six holes. Take a look at what BobW did here.



The specs say a 1.75" x 8 TPI spindle nose. What would the link you provided do for him?


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## precisionworks (Mar 22, 2008)

Can't quite tell if your machine is the South Bend Light Ten or Heavy Ten ... very nice either way. Did you look up the year of manufacture?


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## modamag (Mar 22, 2008)

Brian, just showing frisco how one of the guys made a backplate adapter.



precisionworks said:


> Can't quite tell if your machine is the South Bend Light Ten or Heavy Ten ... very nice either way. Did you look up the year of manufacture?



Brian got himself a nice Heavy 100 at a steal.


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 22, 2008)

precisionworks said:


> Can't quite tell if your machine is the South Bend Light Ten or Heavy Ten ... very nice either way. Did you look up the year of manufacture?



Jonathon is correct. It's a heavy 10 Tool Room. I did look it up and if I remember correctly it was made in 1951.


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## tino_ale (Mar 22, 2008)

Guys,

For the most ignorant among us  can you rapidly explain the main advantage of a 6 jaws chuck as opposed to a more standard one? Are all 6 jaws independant like on a 4 jaws chuck (longer to set up) or are they linked like on a 3 jaws?

thanks


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 22, 2008)

tino_ale said:


> Guys,
> 
> For the most ignorant among us  can you rapidly explain the main advantage of a 6 jaws chuck as opposed to a more standard one? Are all 6 jaws independant like on a 4 jaws chuck (longer to set up) or are they linked like on a 3 jaws?
> 
> thanks



This is a scroll chuck so they are not independent. The "set-Tru" allows you to dial in the TIR repeatability to a maximum of .0004" possibly dead nuts at a given diameter.

As to the advantages of a 6-jaw... it will distort thin wall material less due to the clamping pressure being spread out over 6 jaws instead of 3 or 4. It would be very close to the use of a collet in that sense.


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## precisionworks (Mar 22, 2008)

> explain the main advantage of a 6 jaws chuck as opposed to a more standard one?


When the number of clamping surfaces is doubled from 3 to 6, the clamping pressure per jaw is reduced by 50%. Using a 3-jaw on softer materials like aluminum or brass often deforms the work (actually displaces the material directly under the jaw), where a 6-jaw will cause no problems. You often see the 6-jaw on a second-op lathe, especially when the part is too large for a collet. Plus, you can easily flip a part from end to end, knowing that all features will remain concentric & that you will not leave 'jaw marks' on a finished machined surface. In a production shop, the 6-jaw pays for itself in time savings & elimination of rework.



> It's a Heavy 10 Tool Room.


That was my first thought ... those are sweet machines. One of the members of the PM forum was looking at that model machine, $1500 IIRC -- which is a steal if the machine is in good shape. He passed, but I would have grabbed that one fast (except that it was three time zones away).


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 23, 2008)

precisionworks said:


> When the number of clamping surfaces is doubled from 3 to 6, the clamping pressure per jaw is reduced by 50%. Using a 3-jaw on softer materials like aluminum or brass often deforms the work (actually displaces the material directly under the jaw), where a 6-jaw will cause no problems. You often see the 6-jaw on a second-op lathe, especially when the part is too large for a collet. Plus, you can easily flip a part from end to end, knowing that all features will remain concentric & that you will not leave 'jaw marks' on a finished machined surface. In a production shop, the 6-jaw pays for itself in time savings & elimination of rework.



Yeah, what he said :twothumbs.



precisionworks said:


> That was my first thought ... those are sweet machines. One of the members of the PM forum was looking at that model machine, $1500 IIRC -- which is a steal if the machine is in good shape. He passed, but I would have grabbed that one fast (except that it was three time zones away).



I got mine in the local circular classifieds for $675 with a ton of tooling. Granted most of the tooling I'll never use for the type of work I'm using the lathe for but still added to the value. The story I got was that the lathe was a retired machinists that was not used much in the last 10 years. It does have some bed wear and will turn a small taper but but what I use it for it has been great. All in all a great machine to learn on. I know now what I should look for in my next machine.

This is what it looked like when I got it and the tooling that came with it. Since then I've purchased a lever collet closer, Threading dial, Drive plate, QCTP and holders, several indexable tool holders and inserts, 6 jaw chuck , etc....


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## modamag (Mar 24, 2008)

That's alot of dogs there in the pictures.

Brian, where & what did you end up getting the collet clossure for? My friend is interested in picking up one for his setup.


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## tino_ale (Mar 24, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> This is a scroll chuck so they are not independent. The "set-Tru" allows you to dial in the TIR repeatability to a maximum of .0004" possibly dead nuts at a given diameter.



many thanks for the explanation about the clamping presure. Totally makes sense.

But i'm not familiar with the "set tru" and "TIR repeatability" ? What is this ?

Sorry for the noob questions


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## modamag (Mar 24, 2008)

Set Tru - basically are four set screws 90* apart which allow you to dial it in like a 4-jaws chuck.

TIR - Total Indicator Runout, when you drop an indicator on a round rod how much is it non-concentric. This may vary with your distance from the chuck if your bed is taper (worned).


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## Cuso (Mar 24, 2008)

I should have taken a course in Tool and Die making...


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 24, 2008)

modamag said:


> That's alot of dogs there in the pictures.
> 
> Brian, where & what did you end up getting the collet clossure for? My friend is interested in picking up one for his setup.



Yeah, I've never used any of them nor will I likely ever use one.

If you're asking what I paid for the collet closer I can't remember to be honest. :duh2: It was more than $100 and less than $300... I think.


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## wquiles (Mar 24, 2008)

Congrats on the new chuck :thumbsup:

Will


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 25, 2008)

wquiles said:


> Congrats on the new chuck :thumbsup:
> 
> Will



Thanks. Did you ever decide on your chuck? You know it was your thread that spurred me on to get mine .


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 25, 2008)

Cuso said:


> I should have taken a course in Tool and Die making...



I never did. Granted I've always had a proclivity toward mechanical and creative endeavors. But I am more or less self taught with the exception being some tips from the machinist at the CNC shop. I say if you have an interest and don't mind spending the time _and_ money go for it. The money can be daunting. Keep in mind that even though I did get my lathe for a song I've spent thousands on tooling and parts since then. If you think the flashlight hobby can drain the wallet just wait til you see what the machining world will do .


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## tino_ale (Mar 25, 2008)

modamag said:


> Set Tru - basically are four set screws 90* apart which allow you to dial it in like a 4-jaws chuck.
> 
> TIR - Total Indicator Runout, when you drop an indicator on a round rod how much is it non-concentric. This may vary with your distance from the chuck if your bed is taper (worned).


THANKS!:thumbsup:

Looks like this Set Tru thing is a great feature, if I got it right it basically gives you the "quick" clamping feature like a standard 3-jaws chuck and the precision of a 4 jaws chuck... hum... nice!


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## wquiles (Mar 25, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> Thanks. Did you ever decide on your chuck? You know it was your thread that spurred me on to get mine .



Yep - Mine showed up before yours arrived, but since my new chuck has only 3 jaws "it" felt intimidated showing up his face here with the 6-jaw guys :naughty:

Will


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## will (Mar 25, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> I never did. Granted I've always had a proclivity toward mechanical and creative endeavors. But I am more or less self taught with the exception being some tips from the machinist at the CNC shop. I say if you have an interest and don't mind spending the time _and_ money go for it. The money can be daunting. Keep in mind that even though I did get my lathe for a song I've spent thousands on tooling and parts since then. If you think the flashlight hobby can drain the wallet just wait til you see what the machining world will do .




MM is absolutely correct - I got into this with a mini lathe that I picked up on ebay. For anyone wanting to do this, the mini lathe is too small for most of what the people here on CPf want to do. It is not a robust as a full sized lathe. The work that I do fits this machine quite well, I can even do a limited amount of work on the outside of C and D maglites. Tooling can set you back a considerable amount of money. 

One other item worth mentioning is safety, These machines, even the small ones, are very powerful. It is easy to get careless and injure yourself.


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 26, 2008)

Just a little update regarding the chuck. I've been using it for a couple days now and have to say it's the the ****! I can turn a piece, take it out then put it back in and it runs true as if I never took it out. This chuck is a huge leap forward compared to the chuck that came with the lathe. I am very pleased with my purchase and my only regret is that I didn't get one much sooner!


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## dmdrewitt (Mar 26, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> Just a little update regarding the chuck. I've been using it for a couple days now and have to say it's the the ****! I can turn a piece, take it out then put it back in and it runs true as if I never took it out. This chuck is a huge leap forward compared to the chuck that came with the lathe. I am very pleased with my purchase and my only regret is that I didn't get one much sooner!



Excellent News Brain :thumbsup:


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## wquiles (Mar 26, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> Just a little update regarding the chuck. I've been using it for a couple days now and have to say it's the the ****! I can turn a piece, take it out then put it back in and it runs true as if I never took it out. This chuck is a huge leap forward compared to the chuck that came with the lathe. I am very pleased with my purchase and my only regret is that I didn't get one much sooner!



Good to hear! I don't have the 8x12 running yet so I can't yet make a new back plate to then test the new precision 3-jaw chuck, but hopefully in the next couple of weeks 

Will


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## wquiles (Mar 30, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> Thanks. Did you ever decide on your chuck? You know it was your thread that spurred me on to get mine .



By the way, I am either returning or selling the 3-jaw precission chuck - I just ordered the same 6-jaw version that you got. Now, who made who buy what? :nana:

Will


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 30, 2008)

wquiles said:


> By the way, I am either returning or selling the 3-jaw precission chuck - I just ordered the same 6-jaw version that you got. Now, who made who buy what? :nana:
> 
> Will



Cool! You won't be disappointed. :twothumbs


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## wquiles (Mar 30, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> Cool! You won't be disappointed. :twothumbs



That is exactly why I did it. I now from you and from Modamag that this will save time while working on projects, plus I really like the fact that the 6-jaws individually apply less pressure to the object being held vs. using 3-jaws - less chance to deform something "thin". Being able to mount, remove, remount and be "almost dead on " will be totally awesome. Plus I still have the ER-40 collets for the really small stuff!

Of course I am not ordering any adapter plate since I have to make mine from scratch anyway 

So there you go, in the end it is "your" fault and Modamag's fault that convinced me to get the adjustable 6-jaw model 

Will


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## zelda (Mar 31, 2008)

You can clamp the workpiece more outside from the jaw.

A little disadvantage of a 6 jaw chuck is measuring with calipers.
There is less or no space to measure the length of a piece betwen the jaws.

Zelda


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## Mirage_Man (Mar 31, 2008)

zelda said:


> A little disadvantage of a 6 jaw chuck is measuring with calipers.
> There is less or no space to measure the length of a piece betwen the jaws.
> 
> Zelda



This is true but it's a trade off I'm more than willing to accept.


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## precisionworks (Apr 1, 2008)

> I've spent thousands on tooling and parts





The money spent on a lathe, mill, surface grinder, TIG welder, etc., are the 'cost of admission' to the machine shop. They represent, maybe, 25% of the total expense. The other 75% are in precision measuring tools, setup equipment, lathe tooling, mill tooling, etc. Even if all the tooling & tools are eBay purchased, you'll still spend most of the money on those items.

If you want to show a loss for tax purposes, the machine shop will help you.


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## modamag (Apr 1, 2008)

precisionworks said:


> If you want to show a loss for tax purposes, the machine shop will help you.



Not to be OT, but isn't "used" machinery not tax deductible?


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## gadget_lover (Apr 1, 2008)

I don't see any reason why used macinery is not tax deductable for a business. It's a tool, purchased at a particular price, which will be used to generate income. If you buy a brand new generic widget for $100 and a used top quality widget for $100, both have the same market value and both are deductions.

You may or may not pay sales tax on the used item, but the rules in California say that you MUST pay a sales tax. (sigh)

Daniel


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## wquiles (Apr 1, 2008)

Back on topic, the good folks from Enco said I had a month to return the chuck without penalties, so my only loss is the $15-20 to ship back to them - not too bad 

I also got an email from Enco stating that the new 6-jaw chuck shipped, so I should have it by this weekend or so!

Will


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## Mirage_Man (Apr 2, 2008)

wquiles said:


> Back on topic, the good folks from Enco said I had a month to return the chuck without penalties, so my only lost is the $15-20 to ship back to them - not too bad
> 
> I also got an email from Enco stating that the new 6-jaw chuck shipped, so I should have it by this weekend or so!
> 
> Will



Congrats! Just thought I'd mention that I wouldn't be surprised if the scroll action is a bit tight when you first get it. Mine is just now loosening up a bit to where I can turn the handle without much effort.


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## wquiles (Apr 2, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> Congrats! Just thought I'd mention that I wouldn't be surprised if the scroll action is a bit tight when you first get it. Mine is just now loosening up a bit to where I can turn the handle without much effort.



Thanks for the heads-up Brian :twothumbs

Did you cleaned it and/or use any special grease/lubricant on the chuck before putting it to use?

Will


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## Mirage_Man (Apr 2, 2008)

wquiles said:


> Thanks for the heads-up Brian :twothumbs
> 
> Did you cleaned it and/or use any special grease/lubricant on the chuck before putting it to use?
> 
> Will



Nope. It was heavily lubed already from the factory. I just wiped it down, mounted in on the back plate then dialed it in with the adjustment screws. Of course I took a skim facing cut on the back plate first.


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## wquiles (Apr 3, 2008)

My chuck came today!. I already have the 3-jaw chuck packed and ready to leave tomorrow back to Enco.

Quick question: is there a good diagram/drawing of the dimenssions of the mounting plate that faces the chuck?

Will


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## Mirage_Man (Apr 3, 2008)

wquiles said:


> My chuck came today!. I already have the 3-jaw chuck packed and ready to leave tomorrow back to Enco.
> 
> Quick question: is there a good diagram/drawing of the dimenssions of the mounting plate that faces the chuck?
> 
> Will



Maybe this will help?

http://www.toolmex.com/Tools/PDF/ChuckCatalog.pdf


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## tino_ale (Apr 4, 2008)

wquiles said:


> My chuck came today!. I already have the 3-jaw chuck packed and ready to leave tomorrow back to Enco.
> 
> Quick question: is there a good diagram/drawing of the dimenssions of the mounting plate that faces the chuck?
> 
> Will



Pics pics pics!! I'm curious about how this chuck looks on a 8x14 bench lathe :tinfoil:


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## wquiles (Apr 4, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> Maybe this will help?
> 
> http://www.toolmex.com/Tools/PDF/ChuckCatalog.pdf



Thanks much Brian - that was "exactly" what I needed 

Will


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## wquiles (Apr 4, 2008)

tino_ale said:


> Pics pics pics!! I'm curious about how this chuck looks on a 8x14 bench lathe :tinfoil:



I still need to machine/make my own adapter plate, so it is going to take a while longer. Still, I will take a picture of the stock/OEM chuck so I will have a "before" and "after" photo 

By the way, I am glad my motor is a 1HP motor - this new chuck is so much more heavier than the tiny thing that came with my lathe!

Will


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## tino_ale (Apr 4, 2008)

I've just notived the minimum clamping diameter is 0.67" on this chuck. Don't you think it can be an anoying limitation to machine small parts? I guess usually flashlights parts are bigger than that, is there any exception that comes to mind where it could be a problem?


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## wquiles (Apr 4, 2008)

tino_ale said:


> I've just notived the minimum clamping diameter is 0.67" on this chuck. Don't you think it can be an anoying limitation to machine small parts? I guess usually flashlights parts are bigger than that, is there any exception that comes to mind where it could be a problem?



Something is not wright then. I just went to the garage, and with the jaws closed to min, I was able to measure more or less 0.275" between two opposing flats. In fact I tried a 9/32" drill bit (0.281") and the chuck was able to grab it strongly. This range is perfect for the stuff I normally do with my projects 

(by the way Brian - I noticed what you said about the chuck being "tight" when new!)

Maybe you are reading about a different chuck?   

Will


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## tino_ale (Apr 4, 2008)

Hum... strange, I was reading page 14 of the pdf provided before in this thread. If I read correctly the clamping range of the 6 2-piece reversible jaws is .67-2.52". Do I read improperly?  I'm reading the third line of the table, which is normally describing the 6-1/4" sized chuck


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## wquiles (Apr 4, 2008)

Well, I can't explain it either. Maybe the type of jaws, or how the jaws are positioned for the measurement?

I really can't explain it, but I can attest to what I measured earlier: 9/32" seems to be the smallest drill bit I can strongly grab with my Bison 6-jaw chuck.

I will try to post some pics later today ...

Will


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## tino_ale (Apr 4, 2008)

Well that pretty much a good news that it can grab even smaller parts! Maybe they have a specific measurement method or something, I don't know.

Can't wait to see your pics and feedback!


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## Data (Apr 4, 2008)

Mirage_Man, nice chuck and nice lathe too. I used to have a SB 9" toolroom so I know your lathe pretty well.

A six jaw chuck is also functionally a 3 jaw chuck and a 2 jaw chuck (to hold square stock or flat stock). You can purchase blank jaws made of steel or aluminum or you can make your own jaws with a mill. In a 3 jaw configuration it is easier for the jaws to come closer to the center and still have a nice sized pad. You can just take off three of your jaws and it will probably close to a smaller circle.

If you are going to be turning 1/8" or smaller stuff, just get a set of blank jaws and cut them to a point. Then mount them tightened to a hex shaped backing plate behind the jaws and bore them or drill them to the desired diameter. Remember to number the jaws to match up with the chuck.

The aluminum D1-6 spindle mount adapter I made for my small Cushman 6" 6 jaw run-tru chuck. The run-out measured at 0.0001" 








Cheers
Dave


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## wquiles (Apr 4, 2008)

Here are the photos that I promised earlier of my new 6" Bison Set Tru Chuck. That "tiny" chuck on the right is the 4" 3-jaw chuck that comes with the HF 8x12 lathe.




















Here is the 9/32" drill bit in the chuck:






and this is the dia of the drill bit:






Will


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## tino_ale (Apr 4, 2008)

Cool pics!! The one that shows both of your chucks is almost funny :laughing:


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## Mirage_Man (Apr 6, 2008)

> (by the way Brian - I noticed what you said about the chuck being "tight" when new!)



Yes, mine was a little "tight". Meaning turning the scroll with the T-handle. I spoke with a machinist friend of mine and he said that it is not uncommon for new chucks to be that way. He said it had something to do with the amount of grease the factory packs in them. That said mine has loosened up considerably with a little use.


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## Torque1st (Apr 6, 2008)

Make sure you keep your chuck well lubricated. You will need a pump-type oil can to feed lubricant past the little balls in the oiling system. They are available from many sources like the following. Way oil seems to be a good lubricant for many things on the lathe. Check your service manual for suggestions.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10551_10001_48179___14312

The lubrication point is clearly shown below the name and nomenclature in this picture:






Lots of information on lathes and identification:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/

My lathe is the bigger version of the one spoken of here with a 5.5KW or ~7.5HP motor:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/voest/


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## precisionworks (Apr 6, 2008)

> You will need a pump-type oil can to feed lubricant past the little balls in the oiling system.


The correct amount of oil will sling out against both the wall AND the ceiling. If it does not hit the ceiling, add more


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## Torque1st (Apr 6, 2008)

precisionworks said:


> The correct amount of oil will sling out against both the wall AND the ceiling. If it does not hit the ceiling, add more


I see you have -experience... 

The sticky way oil seems to require the addition of greater amounts before it hits the ceiling. :thumbsup:


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## tvodrd (Apr 6, 2008)

A little off topic, but the primary demise of good chucks is from overtightening short work pieces held at the very front of the jaws. That scroll gear is more than capable of exerting sufficient forces to _bend_ things! 

Of course insufficient clamping can result in spinning the workpiece or worse, watching it fly across the room. :green: Having experienced all three over the years, all I can say is _everybody_ has to learn the hard way, as in experience.

Bison set-tru's are bitchin chucks!

Larry


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## wquiles (Apr 6, 2008)

Torque1st said:


> Make sure you keep your chuck well lubricated. You will need a pump-type oil can to feed lubricant past the little balls in the oiling system. They are available from many sources like the following. Way oil seems to be a good lubricant for many things on the lathe. Check your service manual for suggestions.
> 
> http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10551_10001_48179___14312
> 
> ...



Thank you! Lots of good information there. That lathe of yours sure is a very nice one 




precisionworks said:


> The correct amount of oil will sling out against both the wall AND the ceiling. If it does not hit the ceiling, add more



Even a very novice guy like myself has already experience that - oil goes everywhere 




tvodrd said:


> A little off topic, but the primary demise of good chucks is from overtightening short work pieces held at the very front of the jaws. That scroll gear is more than capable of exerting sufficient forces to _bend_ things!



Thanks Larry - I did not know about that. I will definitely keep this in mind from now on!



NOTE: This feedback/ideas/tips from you and others is what makes this sub-forum so much fun and valuable - thanks to all of you :bow: :bow: :bow:

Will


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## modamag (Apr 7, 2008)

If you're really affraid of oil, you can get this lexan guard. I've had this on my 10EE but didn't really like it. I want to see the cut and the smoke.


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## precisionworks (Apr 7, 2008)

> oil goes everywhere


Sometimes, in stainless, I use TapMagic ... works well.

For aluminum, a vegetable based oil is nice. AccuLube LB2000 provides good lubrication, smells like chicken frying, and the 'shop dog' loves to lick it off the floor. It seems to give her coat a nice shine

http://www.itwfpg.com/tech/acculube/lb2000.pdf


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## Torque1st (Apr 7, 2008)

wquiles said:


> Thank you! Lots of good information there. That lathe of yours sure is a very nice one



Thanks, I haven't got my rotary phase converter built for it yet. It takes a lot of converter capacity to reverse that beast. The existing 14" chucks could be bigger also.

Look for those lubrication points all over your machines. They are common on machinery, even on those machines that use central lubricator systems for most points. Many machines and motors use the cup-type lubrication points also.

You can use almost anything for a shield when the chuck throws oil or coolant everywhere. I have seen scraps of cardboard or tempered hardboard used as well as hinged plywood panels and home made sheet metal shields. Creativity can minimize expense but be safe!


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## Data (Apr 9, 2008)

There are oil ports all over most manual lathes and a few grease ports in select places on some lathes and many chucks. That new chuck probably has plenty of grease in it. However, you would need a grease gun with a point nozzle to fill that chuck port. I think it is the third from the right in this picture of accessories for this gun. If you put oil in that chuck it will wash out the grease and shorten the life of the chuck. I think any type of grease will do but Bison does sell a specific grease for their chuck.

Cheers
Dave


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## wquiles (Apr 10, 2008)

Question: I went to my local surplus metal shop and they did not have anything I could use to create my own chuck mounting plate. Part of this project for me is to actually make the mounting plate from scratch.

Since my new chuck is 6 and 1/4" dia, it looks like I need something about 3/4-7/8-1.0" thick, and about 6.5-7.0" diameter so that I can get this going. I could use some strong Al or cast iron (so that I can machine it myself). I don't want to buy a rough or semi-finished $100+ mounting plate - I want something cheap/simple.

This is the closest I have found within my budget ($40-50), but the "D" dimmension is undersized (needs to be 3.3858", this one is 3.3437"):
http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/13919/nm/Rough_Casting_Back_Plate

What do you guys recommend I buy and from where?

Will


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## will (Apr 10, 2008)

Does the adapter have to have holes drilled to mount it? Do you have the ability to accurately drill the holes and possibly tap them? 

I don't think you will be able to use the plate pictured if the 'D' dimension is undersized. Is that where the chuck centers? You could always make a sleeve and press it on to increase the dimension. I would do it if is just a one shot deal, but not for something that is permanent.


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## wquiles (Apr 10, 2008)

Will - no holes needed - I plan on doing all of the work. I can drill and tap "fairly" accurately in my mini-mill and rotary table:
http://grizzly.com/products/6-Rotary-Table-w-Div-Plates/H7527

And I have to double check again that "D" dimension. From what I remembered it was the surface that the set-tru Bison chucks use for adjustability (via the 4 radially adjusted screws), per in this diagram:
http://www.toolmex.com/Tools/PDF/ChuckCatalog.pdf

So maybe a little bit undersized is OK so that the chuck can move around this inner lip?

Brian - you already adjusted yours. Do you remember if your mounting plate had this dimension a little bit undersized?

Will


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## Mirage_Man (Apr 10, 2008)

wquiles said:


> Brian - you already adjusted yours. Do you remember if your mounting plate had this dimension a little bit undersized?
> 
> Will



Yes, it was slightly undersized and I even took another thou or two off to make it true to the spindle for giggles. It needs to be undersized so that you can use the adjusting screws to true it to the spindle. That's the whole point of the Set-Tru chuck.

_What type of spindle nose does your machine have???

_Check this page out from J&L's catalog. Bison has a "roughing" Back Plate.


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## wquiles (Apr 10, 2008)

Brian,

Thanks for verifying the smaller size - good to know!

In this site, look at the picture of the large chuck and the small one to the right. This smaller chuck is the 4" chuck that comes from the factory mounted in the spindle. If you look at the back of the small chuck, you will see the shallow cut. This matches the small (0.10-12") lip that is on the spindle - this is the centering mechanism of this spindle. Then just 3 screws from the back of the chuck keep things in place:
http://hf8x12.com/mounting%20plate.htm

For my mounting plate, I have to duplicate this lip on the side facing the spindle, and then the plate will need a larger/deeper lip on the other side (facing the chuck) which is what the Bison set-tru will use for radial adjustment.

Will


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## gadget_lover (Apr 10, 2008)

Since it can be cast iron, you could go to any foundry and ask for a plate that size. We still have a few foundries in the area. 

On the small lathe forums I've seen posts that talk of using a cast iron barbell weight of the appropriate size. You have to do a lot to clean them up, but if that's all you can get.....


Daniel


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## wquiles (Apr 10, 2008)

I just got PM from a new forum member in Kansas that has 6 and 1/2" squared precission plates 1" thick made out of premium 6061 Al. This sounds like the ticket for me!

Will


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## KC2IXE (Apr 11, 2008)

wquiles said:


> ...snip...
> This is the closest I have found within my budget ($40-50), but the "D" dimmension is undersized (needs to be 3.3858", this one is 3.3437"):
> http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/13919/nm/Rough_Casting_Back_Plate
> 
> ...



Why is the D demention critical at all? What sized spindle are you trying to fit it on? Does your lathe really have a 3+ spindle nose? (D is the OUTSIDE size)

The BEST way to mount your chuck is via a backplate similar to what you pictured - the FIRST thing you will have to do is machine the center hole. This is usually done by mounting the new backplate on a faceplate, boring out the center, threading (single point) and turning the register in the bore. Then turn the flat at the back of the spiggot

At that point, you take it off the face plate, remove the faceplate from the spindle, and work with the faceplate on the spindle. Quick turn the back (backplate on backwards) - just to clean it up, balance things, put it on the right way, and fit the backplate to the chuck back.

I always make the roughing cuts (say leave things .020 oversize) and then take the backplate off the lathe, whack it a few times with a brass hammer - put it in the freezer for a day, take it out for day for a few days (get any stresses out of the backplate), and then final turn

Generally, you don't have to tap the holes in the backplate to mount the chuck, as the chuck has the threads.

I was really intimidated the first time I went to do it. Now that I've had a few lathes, and had to do it a few times, it's like "OK, time to machine the backplate"


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## wquiles (Apr 11, 2008)

KC2ICE,

Brian clarified that "D" (or "E" in some of the diagrams - the part that goes inside the back of the chuck) was not critical - that was my mistake from earlier.

In my case, the mounting plate is not threaded to the spindle - it just rests on a lip, and then it is held in place by 3 screws.

The 6 1/2" dia 1" thick AL plate is on its way to me now. I will review the steps that you outlined here, as well as some I have seen on-line, and I will post pictures of the whole process. I will ask questions as I get more into the actual buildup 

Will


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## KC2IXE (Apr 12, 2008)

wquiles said:


> KC2ICE,
> 
> Brian clarified that "D" (or "E" in some of the diagrams - the part that goes inside the back of the chuck) was not critical - that was my mistake from earlier.
> 
> ...



EXCEPT that's not the part that goes inside the chuck!! That's the part that goes up against the spindle shoulder. The "spigot" that goes inside the chuck is turned by YOU, AFTER the backplate is mounted on your lathe, so that it runs true to the spindle!
That backplate is well over 1" thick - you turn it a but thinner (and that gets tid of the scale, and stesses, then you turn the part that fits inside the chuck

Edit - when you look at that drawing, in other words, the chuck goes on the LEFT side


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## wquiles (Apr 12, 2008)

KC2IXE said:


> EXCEPT that's not the part that goes inside the chuck!! That's the part that goes up against the spindle shoulder.


I agree with you more than you realize, but you and I are looking at different diagrams - I was in fact refering all along to the part that goes inside the chuck. In that catalog Bison changes letters in the different diagrams 




KC2IXE said:


> That's the part that goes up against the spindle shoulder. The "spigot" that goes inside the chuck is turned by YOU, AFTER the backplate is mounted on your lathe, so that it runs true to the spindle!


Yes, that is my plan - to turn it "true" once the backplate is mounted on the spindle 

Will


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## wquiles (Apr 14, 2008)

Well, the Al plates from CPF member "*dstutts*" arrived safely today. Now I really don't have an excuse not to work on my lathe!

That "small" chuck is the 4" chuck that comes with the 8x12 lathe:







Here is the new Bison chuck on top of the plate - I still have about 1/8" on each side of the chuck, so plenty of size to match the chuck's dia:






The plates are about 1.0" thick, should should be perfect for this project. About half of this thickness will be inside the rear of the chuck (for the set-tru feature), and the other half will be bolted to the spindle on one side and to the chuck on the other:






Will


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## Data (Apr 14, 2008)

Will, would you post a pic of the back side of the chuck?


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## wquiles (Apr 15, 2008)

Data said:


> Will, would you post a pic of the back side of the chuck?



Look in here, page 12, the two smaller pictures on bottom left of that page, by the page number. You will see the adapter I have to make on the left and to the right of it you will see the back of the chuck:
http://www.toolmex.com/Tools/PDF/ChuckCatalog.pdf

The same page has the outline diagram for both the adapter plate and the chuck as well.

Is this what you wanted to see?

Will


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## tino_ale (Apr 15, 2008)

Very nice. I hope you can take pics of the machining process of your custom adaptor plate. I could be very usefull!


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## wquiles (Apr 16, 2008)

tino_ale said:


> Very nice. I hope you can take pics of the machining process of your custom adaptor plate. I could be very usefull!



I certainly will. Those who know me by know will verify that I am not shy to post "many" pictures of the work in progress 

Will


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