# Whats the most nauseating strobe ona LED flashlight



## jon1996 (Sep 27, 2008)

I am looking for a strobe on a bright LED that has a nauseating effect, I have a Fenix L2D but it does not make you feel funny, I have heard that some ultrafires do, anyone got a link to one of them
Thanks,
Jon


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## Photon Joe (Sep 27, 2008)

Not an ultrafire, but this one is made for the purpose of making you vomit, if that helps.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/nonlethal-weapon/flashlight-makes-you-vomit-286287.php


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## DArklite (Sep 27, 2008)

Any of the JETBeam IBS models.


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## nanotech17 (Sep 27, 2008)

Novatac has the worst strobe ( i mean it really make you dizzy )


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## jzmtl (Sep 28, 2008)

I haven't found one that's actually nauseating yet. I've strobed myself in a dark room with both fenix's and novatac's, and they are both just annoying, but no more distracting than jfull blast, and neither are nauseating.


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## PhantomPhoton (Sep 28, 2008)

I've found Jetbeams have a nice strobe, much faster than Fenix. I hear the Gladius has a decent one but I've yet to confirm it on myslef. :green: Let's see other ones... NDI is average. Wolf Eyes P7 is slow like the Fenix. Honestly not a lot of good ones out there my experience of testing upon myself. I'll tell ya my brother sure likes testing them on me.

Most strobes seem to be designed not to be nauseating/ disorienting but rather just made to overload the eyes for a bit. Even the Fenix does this job deciently. Furthermore due to photoepileptics one needs to be careful with quicker strobes in the 12+ hz range.


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## jupello (Sep 28, 2008)

I have been thinking that strobe with some randomity in the flashes would be most effective in that. Ofcourse the right average speed and light intensity would be important too..and added colors would most likely help a lot too :sick2:

But I dont think that these common flashlight manufacturers have really put any effort and research into making their strobes to be as distractive as possible to humans.. they're most likely just added it as another feature that's usefull for signaling and getting other's attention. I think you'll notice it from the light's tech specs if someone has put effort into that..they would advertise "Real tactical strobe"(or something like that) all around if they'd have such thing


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## Stephan_L (Sep 28, 2008)

Hi everybody, 

I did some research about strobes and their effects on the human body. After a hint from MattK, I watched out for the Bucha - Effect. There is not much on the internet, but I found some information: 

The Bucha - Effect means (in short):

Then a person gets strobed with a certain frequency, their can be a form of physical seizure. What is the most often effect? The eye-nerves are getting overwhelmed by trying to adjust between dark and bright. 
Other effects can be: disorientation, feeling dizzy or even (in a maximum), getting an eppileptic attack. 
If those effects appear and how strong, depends on how sensitive the individual is. So everyone will get another feeling from the strobe.

Back to Dr. Bucha: 
Tests - mainly made by the US Army - showed, that a frequency between 8 and 25 flashes per Second (Hz) can cause those seizures. The most people react on frequencys between 12 and 15 Hz. 

I know from my Fenix P3D that it strobes with 8 Hz, wich is the bottonline of the frequencies. The new models (PD30) strobe with 15 Hz, that is much closer to the "effective frequency". 

It is said, that the frequency of the Blackhawk Gladius was tested and improved to be as close to the "most effective frequency" as possible. I don't know. The Strobe of the Gladius is not very nice! I tested it on my own person! 

Just what I know about this theme! It does not have to be correct! I'm not a doctor! But that's what I found on the internet! 

Bye, 

Stephan


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## DArklite (Sep 28, 2008)

I have the JET-III Pro; the strobe is continuously variable and will ramp from 1Hz-15Hz and you can set it whatever frequency you want. You can even assign it as one of the 3 presets. It's strobe is delivered at full power, and since this light is a thrower for its size, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end  
I did some strobe ramping at my ceiling and set it at a point where my eyes were "bugging out" to look at it.


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## shomie911 (Sep 28, 2008)

Even though the Gladius doesn't have as high output as today's flashlights, it's strobe is the worst (as in most effective) I've used so far.

They obviously put a lot of research into the storbe and the rest of the light.


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## Stephan_L (Sep 28, 2008)

Hi shomie, 

yes, you are damn right! The strobe of the Gladius is one of the best (if not *THE* best) strobes! One reason is, that they planned it to be usefull in military and law enforcement. With this in mind, they for sure spend a lot of time in making the strobe as usefull as it could get! 

But the amount of light, coming out of the Gladius (even with the upgrade) is not, what I am expecting from an actual flashlight! One of my partners bought it last year for a good price, while he was in Kosovo. I was amazed about the light, when he came back! 

But when I see, how much money I would have to spent on the Gladius and then see, what I can get for much less money: My choice is not the Gladius! (Btw.: Same problem with SureFire). 

I am looking forward for the new Fenix PD30. If the strobe is set to 15 Hz, it should be much more annoying, than the "old" 8Hz-Strobe of my P3D! 

Bye, 

Stephan


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## shomie911 (Sep 28, 2008)

Stephan_L said:


> Hi shomie,
> 
> yes, you are damn right! The strobe of the Gladius is one of the best (if not *THE* best) strobes! One reason is, that they planned it to be usefull in military and law enforcement. With this in mind, they for sure spend a lot of time in making the strobe as usefull as it could get!
> 
> ...



I'm sad that they haven't updated the Gladius. It truly is the premier tactical light.

It's the only light I've owned so far that I would actually bet my life on. I had absolute confidence that it would work everytime.

I'm about to buy a RA Twisty 85-TR and I'm hoping it will inspire the same confidence.


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## Photon Joe (Sep 28, 2008)

I had a regular room strobelight from the '70's and it had a warning sticker on the adjustment knob that stated "warning setting the light to flash between 9-14 flashes per second can cause it to synchronise with the alpha rythm of the brain , causing possible nausia, siezures and possible brain damage among certain individuals"
How true this was , I do not know other than it did make some people sick and vomit
in this range when I tried it briefly.
But they were already drunk at the time.


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## Stephan_L (Sep 28, 2008)

Hi Photon Joe, 

as I stated above: 
It depends on how sensitive the individual is for this type of input! 
There are people, that get "just" an overwhelmed eye-nerve, while others, who are more sensitive for this, can become sick from those flashes. 

If those people were drunk: 
Alcohol and some other drugs (like THC) can rise the sensivity for this type of input. So these people may react harder, than they would do, if they were not drunk! 

Bye, 

Stephan


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## Wattnot (Sep 28, 2008)

+1 on the already recommended newer Jetbeam models (with I.B.S.). Not only can you set the strobe frequency but the brightness too. You won't find a more versital setup . . . especially one this bright. 

If you need MORE POWER than that check out Wolf Eyes. You can get a strobe on their Storm/Thunder models as well as their new models (like the P7 ones).


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## Coop (Sep 28, 2008)

Haven't come across any strobe yet that was anything beyond mildly annoying. Certainly not disorientating, dizzying or nauseating. But it migh just be that I'm strobe-proof from flashing myself in the face too often  If I had to pick the most annoying strobe from my led collection, I'd go with the Novatac EDC120p


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## JKL (Sep 28, 2008)

jon1996 said:


> I am looking for a strobe on a bright LED that has a nauseating effect....
> Thanks,
> Jon




Newer JETBeam models (with I.B.S.) , strobe frequency = 15 Hz.


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## orcinus (Sep 28, 2008)

The one on Dosun R5 is pretty dizzifying... 
Measured the frequency at 16-17 Hz.


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## Sir Lightalot (Sep 28, 2008)

The random strobe on the LF5XT is pretty darn nauseating.


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## orcinus (Sep 28, 2008)

Yeah, that one has a pretty weird effect too.
But each time i try it out i'm afraid of being trampled by a random, migrating herd of clubbers...


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## mudman cj (Sep 28, 2008)

Here is a thread I started a while back on this subject. The link I provide there explains the physiological origin of this phenomenon.

This data shows a peak response in apparent brightness around 20 Hz for bright enough light sources shifting down to around 10 Hz for dimmer ones. The optimum frequency depends on the brightness of the perceived light source.


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## WadeF (Sep 28, 2008)

Sir Lightalot said:


> The random strobe on the LF5XT is pretty darn nauseating.


 
+1, this is the only strobe I have seen (out of my lights) that has made me feel a bit uneasy.


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## varuscelli (Sep 28, 2008)

Photon Joe said:


> How true this was , I do not know other than it did make some people sick and vomit
> in this range when I tried it briefly.
> But they were already drunk at the time.


 
Yes, but you might have also had your black light clicked on simultaneously with the strobe in your tapestry-shrouded party room full of glowing Led Zeppelin and Peter Max posters. 

 :twothumbs

I spent so much 70s time in that environment that I'm now totally immune to such lighting effects...unless the flashlight were to have the ability to explosively blare out the late portion of Stairway to Heaven, in which case I'd hurl due to accumulated music toxins. :sick2:


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## orcinus (Sep 28, 2008)

LOL :laughing:


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## Art Vandelay (Sep 28, 2008)

The "random" strobe on the Liteflux lf5xt is downright obnoxious. You can't get used to it.


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## PhotonWrangler (Sep 28, 2008)

I've compared the strobe from my Fenix P3D to a couple of others, and while they're all annoying and disorienting, I found that one of the inexpensive driver boards that I got from DX produces a very distinctive visual throbbing that the others don't. It might be that the frequency and duty cycle are just in that sweet spot where the rods & cones just begin to reset and then have to bounce back. The visual effect is that of strobing horizontal dark lines running throughout the wall of light. Unfortunately that driver is buried under a bunch of Ceramique thermal goop in my QIII right now so I can't tell you the model number of the board.


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## TOPOS (Jan 22, 2016)

Just a heads up, strobes can be effective but also can be downright dangerous to some people. A family friend of mine is a police officer and had to use his strobe (i'm unsure of the light but it's made by streamlight) on a drunk individual and within a second the drunk was having a epileptic seizure. Back on topic the thrunight tn12 has a verry blinding strobe. not quite "nauseating" though.


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## PhotonWrangler (Jan 22, 2016)

I think the nauseating effect has to be induced using a combination of strobing and color changes. It's funny though, I haven't heard any more about the barfinator since it came out several years ago. I can't help but wonder if the lack of news means that it had limited effectiveness.

If you want to experiment with strobe frequency and cadence, see if you can find a Hexbright flashlight. It has an arduino-compatible chip inside and can be custom programmed via it's USB port. You can roll your own strobe effects with it.


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## orbital (Jan 22, 2016)

+

*Any noticeable PWM on Low level ------**:fail:*


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## bykfixer (Jan 23, 2016)

^^ this

My Strion LED makes my kids bump into walls and my wife turn pale. 

This thread is making me feel queezy thinking about the Strion strobe.


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## RemcoM (Jan 23, 2016)

What effect, does a 19 Hz strobe?

Still disorienting?

Anyone, knows/guesses, what the strobe will be, on the Nitecore TM36?

How much Hz?


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## vadimax (Jan 23, 2016)

I guess the only guaranteed strobe effect is to disable attacker's eyes. There are too many people that vomit only when definitely poisoned. You cannot hope to feed an aggressive person with some poop  So the only realistic goal -- to disable his ability to see you and your actions (drawing a gun or a knife or whatever you prefer for self defense).

As was mentioned on this forum, the "boarder" lumens somewhere around 800. So, I dare to think that lumens go first. Strobe effect just destroys an eye ability to accommodate to new conditions.

Just my 2 cents


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## usdiver (Jan 26, 2016)

I have a couple HDS lights and the strobe on the older versions is definitely more effective... Unlike the newer version which doesn't seem as bright and it's a faster strobe. The newer one is more for getting someone's attention and that. About it. The older version is something that when I don't like being on the receiving end of.


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## nuts4cree (Mar 16, 2016)

Circa 2007, got some $150 Bucha Effect "tactical" strobe lights made before China/eBay sold similar ones for $60 and flooded the market with "disorienting strobe" flashlights.

Mine was to slow down cars, so it was mounted on a bike handlebar, to prevent speeding car-murderers from killing us cyclists on alleyways. Almost every driver slowed down, day or night, and the effect was subliminal.

Saw that the light did not have to hit the eye directly. Reflections off a Stop sign would slow down cars in late afternoon. 

At night, we took our bikes on top of a city hillside and slowed down 90 percent of speeders (subliminally) from 80kph to 60kph. The Bucha Effect was very, very powerful.

Not a random strobe or irritating light. 8 hz.

At that time, Louie Garneau (the bike accessory maker) made a very small bike light that also pulsed around 8 hz, and it was used, firing to the rear, on a bike cargo trailer. That was awesomely effective, for our bike safety, until it got lost/stolen.



It works, but don't care to know why.


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## vadimax (Mar 16, 2016)

Cannot claim it is 100% true, but have heard that 8Hz somehow correlate with human brain signaling frequencies. That's why sound and light at 8Hz might induce some weird effect


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## simian (Dec 22, 2018)

Any new information on this? I have been using a Fenix TK20R and it seems to fair pretty well. Just ordered a Klarus GT11X so see if it is more effective. Looking for other options as well.


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## bykfixer (Dec 23, 2018)

When ever I strobe with my Streamlight Stinger as the kids leave a room they crash into the door jam if that means anything.

Edit:
Just saw I already said that 2 years ago.
Doh!
End edit.


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## vadimax (Dec 23, 2018)

You all look in the wrong direction. The most nauseating strobe is this:



If it is directed at you, you will feel most definitely not OK.


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## PhotonWrangler (Dec 23, 2018)

So whatever happened with the barfinator flashlight? It made a splash in the news 11 years ago but I haven't heard anything since. Were there any field trials? Did it really work?


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## vadimax (Dec 25, 2018)

PhotonWrangler said:


> So whatever happened with the barfinator flashlight? It made a splash in the news 11 years ago but I haven't heard anything since. Were there any field trials? Did it really work?



That was nothing more, but an attempt to steal taxpayers’ money. The result is obvious.

The only 100% reliably working “strobe” I am aware of is this:


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## PhotonWrangler (Dec 25, 2018)

Lol. Yeah I want one of those!


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## twistedraven (Dec 25, 2018)

For me it's Zebralight's strobes-- the slower ones. It's slow enough to where the my eyes have a hard time adjusting to the constant on-off-on-off cycle.


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