# why titanium?



## stickman (Feb 26, 2010)

I know I'm just a noob, but I'm having a hard time understanding the desire for a titanium torch when the same results can be had in stainless for a much lower cost. Is it the cool factor? Both can be polished (I prefer polished stainless here). Both can be blasted, brushed, etc. Yet stainless would clearly cost much less. 
I can't be strength. There are many Ti and SS alloys and I'm sure the Ti lights aren't the high grade(strength) alloys. With that said chucking your light from a 2 story building I doubt the electronics would survive in either based on an avg number of drops. 
So....help me out here!


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## Saint_Dogbert (Feb 26, 2010)

Sounds like you already have a very valid personal preference for stainless, so what does it matter? Titanium is lighter weight than steel, but that is the only practical advantage. If you like steel stick with that. If you're that curious about ti, buy a ti light, and sell if you don't prefer it. Part of the draw is indeed the cool factor, the collectability. Titanium does have more of a gray-blue color than steel, which is kind of neat. In that case, cost is not a factor. If the idea of a ti light doesn't grab you - well everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Again, you'll probably be happy with SS.

I constantly see this on internet forums - people questioning something because of high cost. If it is the price of something that is an issue, then *don't buy it. *End of problem*. *


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## PeaceOfMind (Feb 26, 2010)

Personally my draw to Ti over Stainless Steel would be considerably lighter weight at close to the same strength. That being said, aluminum is even lighter yet, and while not as strong is generally strong enough, and cheap too... so Aluminum is usually my top choice. It's all about personal preference and your uses though - so if you don't see any advantage to Ti for your use/preferences, then don't buy it


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## dandism (Feb 26, 2010)

"It's what they use in the space shuttles."

So people can say that. :laughing:


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## sed6 (Feb 26, 2010)

stickman said:


> I know I'm just a noob, but I'm having a hard time understanding the desire for a titanium torch when the same results can be had in stainless for a much lower cost. Is it the cool factor? Both can be polished (I prefer polished stainless here). Both can be blasted, brushed, etc. Yet stainless would clearly cost much less.
> I can't be strength. There are many Ti and SS alloys and I'm sure the Ti lights aren't the high grade(strength) alloys. With that said chucking your light from a 2 story building I doubt the electronics would survive in either based on an avg number of drops.
> So....help me out here!


 
I'll bite. I have one Ti light, a custom neck light I wear 24/7. It's made from Ti because other metals react with my skin and produce a rash. Ti is magical (or whatever the correct term is) in that it doesn't react with my skin, is impervious to salt and sweat and is cool. 

I'll add that very few of us pick our lights soley for their function. Form matters too!


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## shilent (Feb 26, 2010)

I too prefer the looks of stainless steel over titanium. The only reason I'd choose titanium is because of the weight. Steel is like twice the weight and if it were to be my everyday carry light, titanium hands down.


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## BigHonu (Feb 26, 2010)

No rust.

Here, practically any type of steel rusts.


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## Saint_Dogbert (Feb 26, 2010)

sed6 said:


> I'll bite. I have one Ti light, a custom neck light I wear 24/7. It's made from Ti because other metals reach with my skin and produce a rash. Ti is magical (or whatever the correct term is) in that it doesn't react with my skin, is impervious to salt and sweat and is cool.



forgot that one, ti is also 'hypoallergenic' as the marketers say.


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## carrot (Feb 26, 2010)

Extreme corrosion resistance, lower weight than stainless, stronger and harder than aluminium, and higher thermal resistance means "warmer" to the touch. Many titanium lights are 6AL-4V, which is much stronger than stainless. I wear a Ti light around my neck and I know it will not corrode.


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## amigafan2003 (Feb 26, 2010)

> *why titanium?*


*

Because it's expensive 
*


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## Zeruel (Feb 26, 2010)

For these reasons and these.


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## stickman (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm not asking because of cost alone. A Ti quark is penny's compared to surefire in cost. I know there are many reasons for each person. Obviously those exposed to salt spray would prefer Ti in the long run....."if" they managed to keep their light after better designs come out! I'm aware of it's properties. Just curious in getting different point of views from others around here.


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## stickman (Feb 26, 2010)

hadn't seen the alloy listed until now. Is this with most all light manufacturers?

*Titanium 6AL-4V*, or ASTM alloy standard *Grade 5*[1], is one of the most common and available types or grades of titanium alloys. It is the most widely used titanium alloy, e.g. for Aerospace, Medical, Marine, and Chemical Processing. Among its many advantages, it is heat treatable. This grade is an excellent combination of strength, corrosion resistance, weld and fabricability. In consequence, its uses are numerous such as for military aircraft or turbines. It is also used in surgical implants[2]. Generally, it is used in applications up to 400 degrees Celsius. Its properties are very similar to those of the 300 stainless steel series, especially 316.
It has a density of roughly 4500 kg/m3, Young's modulus of 110 GPa, and tensile strength of 1000 MPa.[3] By comparison, annealed type 316 stainless steel has a density of 8000 kg/m3, modulus of 193 GPa, and tensile strength of only 570 MPa.[4] And tempered 6061 aluminium alloy has 2700 kg/m3, 69 GPa, and 310 MPa, respectively.[5]


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## AMRaider (Feb 26, 2010)

It really depends on the manufacterer. Some use 6Al-4V (Grade 5) while others use Commercially Pure Grade 2. Between the two, Grade 5 has the higher tensile strength.


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## motorwerks (Feb 26, 2010)

Whats up Stickman!!! I swear we are on like 4 or 5 of the same Forums now. LOL 

Anyhow I can speak for Ti lights but I prefer Ti Bike parts they are LIGHT, and hold up like no other.


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## sed6 (Feb 27, 2010)

motorwerks said:


> Whats up Stickman!!! I swear we are on like 4 or 5 of the same Forums now. LOL


 
Is this the same stickman as on ar-15.com? If so you need to buy some lights, take some cool pics, and impress everyone here with your photography skills!


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## JWRitchie76 (Feb 27, 2010)

To me a SS flashlight isn't practical. I have a SS Maratac AAA and it weighs more than my AL Maratac AA. Unless your talking a light the size of a AAA, SS is just not practical for EDC IMO. Could you imagine a Ra in stainless? It'd be a boat anchor!


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## ampdude (Feb 28, 2010)

PeaceOfMind said:


> Personally my draw to Ti over Stainless Steel would be considerably lighter weight at close to the same strength. That being said, aluminum is even lighter yet, and while not as strong is generally strong enough, and cheap too... so Alimunum is usually my top choice. It's all about personal preference and your uses though - so if you don't see any advantage to Ti for your use/preferences, then don't buy it



Yes, and aluminum has better heat transfer than titanium or stainless steel. Along with its weight and relative cheapness, it is obviously the superior material for LED flashlights. However I wouldn't mind owning an incandescent in titanium for the strength and cool factor. I would not want to own one in LEd though.


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## IMSabbel (Feb 28, 2010)

For me, I like the look of brushed / powder coated Ti.
Plus it feels nice, with its low heat conductivity.

Sadly, the latter is not that nice for a flashlight, while for the former, most lights are polished and just look boring shiny.


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## leukos (Feb 28, 2010)

stickman said:


> I'm not asking because of cost alone. A Ti quark is penny's compared to surefire in cost. I know there are many reasons for each person. Obviously those exposed to salt spray would prefer Ti in the long run....."if" they managed to keep their light after better designs come out! I'm aware of it's properties. Just curious in getting different point of views from others around here.


 
4 sevens lights do bring down the cost quite a bit, but it really does not make much sense to spend $500 on a Ti light that cannot be easily upgraded to future LEDs. So, I think I agree with you from where you are coming from.
A Ti P60 host would be a nice find, but these are currently one off customs. This type of host would be easily upgradable though.
As far as bezel rings, I always go for the SS option over the Ti. Why? Because usually they are made with 400 series SS and withstand impacts better than Ti. Plus, Ti and Al aren't always best friends when sharing threads.
Ti has the bling look going for it, so I suppose it will always attract customers looking for jewelry.


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## stickman (Feb 28, 2010)

Thanks for all the responses. Nice to see a bit of variety for reasons. I love how you can take Ti and anodize it with different colors. (no I'm not talking about the same anodizing as aluminum, just forgot the name for it)
just an example.....the color possibilities are endless!

http://www.titaniumfinishing.com/page09.htm


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## TKC (Feb 28, 2010)

*I LOVE titanium. I like it's lighter weight & it is tough. I like titanium frame lock knives too.*


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## LeifUK (Feb 28, 2010)

I have a Titanium watch which I do not wear, except when running, and the surface is very soft. It scratches very easily, far more so than anodised Aluminium. I ran some stainless steel tweezers along my Akoray torch, no marks. I did the same to the watch, and it created scratches. I like stainless steel, and although it can rust, it will not do so unless severely abused. 

I have read that Ti is quite hard to machine, unlike Al which is easy. SS is hard to machine unless you have the right cutting tools. With diamond tools its probably easy.


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## UnderTheWeepingMoon (Mar 1, 2010)

I think that Ti is overrated. I own Ti lights but for me, the Ti is not a selling factor and if the same lights were available in HA aluminium, I would go for those instead (I will admit I'm partial to the aesthetics of anodised Ti). Ti shows scratches very easily, even the high-tensile Grade 5 Ti, and its poor thermal conductivity makes it unsuitable for high-powered lights. HA lights are lighter and cheaper and I have no concerns for the durability of any of my aluminium lights.

I agree that Ti is a superior material for use in corrosive environments. This may matter to some who expose their lights to salt water or other corrosive agents, but is of no concern to me. 

I think Ti has a place in bezel rings, where its increased strength can be put to good use without excessive material usage or machining costs. Grade 5 Ti also makes a great clip material because of its elasticity.

A final gripe I have with Ti is that I see it being used by many makers as a way to inflate the price of mediocre lights, as witnessed in the recent flux of Ti lights on the market.


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## rx78gp02 (Mar 2, 2010)

"to each, their own"
- author, unknown to me at the time.

Personally for me, I think a Ti light is unpractical for the time being. 
its cost out weighs the usefulness for me. I'm not going to spend $500 on a light if i can't use it.. everyday with me.


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## DimeRazorback (Mar 2, 2010)

rx78gp02 said:


> I'm not going to spend $500 on a light if i can't use it.. everyday with me.



Why can't you use it? :thinking:


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## rx78gp02 (Mar 2, 2010)

DimeRazorback said:


> Why can't you use it? :thinking:



well in theory you can. 
I guess i'm very abusive with it comes to some of my lights. Which is why i rely on surefire's warranty some of the time. All I use are their M series flashlights as an EDC. I use them to smash ice sometimes, or use them in long extended periods of time (sometimes long enough to deplete a set of fresh bats).

And yes, in theory you can do the same with a Ti light, but with the heat transfer issue, and a $500 price tag with less leverage, puts it not a useful terms on my account.


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 2, 2010)

sed6 said:


> I'll bite. I have one Ti light, a custom neck light I wear 24/7. It's made from Ti because other metals react with my skin and produce a rash. Ti is magical (or whatever the correct term is) in that it doesn't react with my skin, is impervious to salt and sweat and is cool.



Does stainless steel cause a rash on you? I thought it was generally considered hypoallergenic.


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## Zeruel (Mar 2, 2010)

I found this useful article at Russtang's (UniqueTitanium) site. (Excerpt)

- Highest ratio between strength and density of all metallic materials.
- Extreme mechanical and thermal loading capacity.
- Extreme tensile strength - stonger than steel but 42% lighter.
- High corrosion resistance, particularly against oxygen.
- Extremely bio-compatible because of it’s tissue compatibility and it’s elastic attributes.
- Titanium is inert and therefore completely corrosion resistant.
- It does not react to salt water, sunlight, or any body chemistry.
- Titanium is 100% hypoallergenic.
- Titanium is the preferred material for surgical tools, implants, pacemaker cases and other internal casings.
- It won’t react with any part of the body, making it a great choice for even those persons most sensitive to other materials. When a person has an allergic reaction when wearing a pair of gold or silver earrings due to the alloys, it is recommended that they switch over to titanium earrings.
- And unlike silver, Titanium will never tarnish!
- Titanium does not become magnetized.
- Titanium can only be worked with extremely hard tools.
- Titanium has an extremely high melting point of 1800 degrees Celsius.
- Titanium is as strong as steel, but 45% lighter.
- Titanium is 30% more elastic than steel.
- Titanium is resistant to salt water, perspiration and acids.


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## ampdude (Mar 3, 2010)

Titanium is awesome all around, but it is not stronger than steel. Pure titanium is about as strong as some of the weakest steels. A lot of the "titanium" we see are alloys.

Titanium is used in combat aircraft because it has the highest strength to weight ratio of all metals.


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## stickman (Mar 3, 2010)

Zeruel said:


> I found this useful article at Russtang's (UniqueTitanium) site. (Excerpt)
> 
> - Highest ratio between strength and density of all metallic materials.
> - Extreme mechanical and thermal loading capacity.
> ...


 
I think this could have been broken down a little bit. 
Plus, for those that don't know. Ti's strength reputation is in regards to (some) of it's alloys that can be heat treated. Like it's use as aircraft engine fan blades. And most surgical tools are in fact stainless.


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## leukos (Mar 4, 2010)

ampdude said:


> Titanium is awesome all around, but it is not stronger than steel. Pure titanium is about as strong as some of the weakest steels. A lot of the "titanium" we see are alloys.
> 
> Titanium is used in combat aircraft because it has the highest strength to weight ratio of all metals.


 
Yup, how many knives you know have blades made out of Ti? Just a few diving knives because of the corrosion resistance. Most everything else is SS. Handles and linerlocks are what get made out of Ti.


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## mdocod (Mar 4, 2010)

leukos said:


> ...A Ti P60 host would be a nice find, but these are currently one off customs. This type of host would be easily upgradable though...



Ti P60 Host

Enjoy 

Eric


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## KuKu427 (Mar 4, 2010)

I Ti because titanium lights show less damage after being dropped or EDC'ed when compared to Al lights.


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## GarageBoy (Mar 5, 2010)

Everyone note the strength quoted; it's TENSILE strength. Has nothing to do with your lights getting nicks and scratches. What I want to know is how a typical Ti light will fare when I use it as a cantilever beam to climb a mountain in


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## dagored (Mar 5, 2010)

Stickman,

What everyone said and this:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/259652
You have to hold one in your hand and then its all over.


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## SirJMD (Mar 5, 2010)

BigHonu said:


> No rust.
> 
> Here, practically any type of steel rusts.



Any steel can rust - even stainless steel.


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## stickman (Mar 5, 2010)

Hey dagored....that link just sent me to a blank page, nothing on it. I like some custom one off Ti lights simply for their design. For that reason I might consider one, but if the exact same could be bought of "al" that's what I'd get. 
I do feel though that for the small group of custom builders Ti is an important way of seperating themselves from such a large market. Take those same custom lights and build them from aluminum and there'd be nothing special about them.....


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## dagored (Mar 5, 2010)

stickman said:


> Hey dagored....that link just sent me to a blank page, nothing on it. I like some custom one off Ti lights simply for their design. For that reason I might consider one, but if the exact same could be bought of "al" that's what I'd get.
> I do feel though that for the small group of custom builders Ti is an important way of seperating themselves from such a large market. Take those same custom lights and build them from aluminum and there'd be nothing special about them.....



Sorry, my fault, corrected:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/259652


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## stickman (Mar 5, 2010)

I see it now......very nice indeed. Wow! $500 back in 2008. :sick2:


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## dagored (Mar 5, 2010)

stickman said:


> I see it now......very nice indeed. Wow! $500 back in 2008. :sick2:



I purchased the Haiku XR-E, my first, a week ago and hope to have the XP-G in a few weeks. 

I am still blown away by the quality and easy crisp and clean 3 level clicky. To me these lights are the equivalent to Rolex and Breitling watches.

This is my response to your question of "why titanium?"


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## stickman (Mar 5, 2010)

dagored said:


> I purchased the Haiku XR-E, my first, a week ago and hope to have the XP-G in a few weeks.
> 
> I am still blown away by the quality and easy crisp and clean 3 level clicky. To me these lights are the equivalent to Rolex and Breitling watches.
> 
> This is my response to your question of "why titanium?"


 

So for you it's a status symbol among flashaholics.....That same light shouldn't cost more than $150......you overpaid!


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## don.gwapo (Mar 5, 2010)

Ti lights are more exclusive because of their high build quality and wow factor. They are also produced in limited run say Gatlight, Jetbeam, Olight, Quark Ti to name a few. Price is not an issue but you get an exclusivity in return.


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## stickman (Mar 6, 2010)

Yeah, if your referring to a quark Ti for $100. Maybe an RRT-2 Ti at $280 and that's pushing it. But not the Haiku for $500. In the end it's just a flashlight. Wow factors fade quickly in time.


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## stickman (Mar 6, 2010)

Maybe I'll start selling Titanium ink pens. They're pretty cool. They write on paper so you can look at it later. And if your ever at sea and get marrooned on an island you can send messages in a bottle without fear of it corroding 10 years later........only $50 ea.....:naughty:




















yeah, I like stirring things up now and then.....


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## PeaceOfMind (Mar 6, 2010)

stickman said:


> Maybe I'll start selling Titanium ink pens. They're pretty cool. They write on paper so you can look at it later. And if your ever at sea and get marrooned on an island you can send messages in a bottle without fear of it corroding 10 years later........only $50 ea.....:naughty:



Don't laugh, they're out there. I think you can get the Inka pen in Titanium.

I have a Fisher space pen in Titanium. It cost less than $50 and it's a really cool pen. Perhaps not a "necessary item", but cool nonetheless.

Edit: just looked it up. Inka pen in Titanium available for $30 here: http://www.lighthound.com/Inka-Pen-Titanium_p_655.html

Double Edit: I think I misunderstood your joke... you meant 'titanium ink' pens, not titanium 'ink pens'... sorry.


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## GLOCK18 (Mar 6, 2010)

You can ask the same question about rings and bracelets why buy a Gold ring or Gold bracelet when Surgical Stainless steel would be the best metal to use having less then 5% nickel and 80% less cost. Why buy a maple dresser when a pine dresser will do the same job, why buy an IWC watch when a Seiko is more accurate. As in most forums that is watch forum a pen forum or a flashlight forum for me it’s about collecting with Titanium it’s the lure of the metal the difficulty of machining. It’s not about what metal is better, as a plastic flashlight will do the job in most cases, one of the most ask question over on the watch forum WHY BUY A ROLEX it’s not as accurate as 50 dollars times. It’s never about cost when purchasing a perceived HIGH END items, it’s because it’s available and we want it.


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## BigHonu (Mar 6, 2010)

SirJMD said:


> Any steel can rust - even stainless steel.



That is exactly what I meant! Especially here, on an island in the middle of the pacific! 

That is why I like Ti!


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## GLOCK18 (Mar 6, 2010)

How about a light made from 18-8 stainless wonder if it would rust.


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## BigHonu (Mar 6, 2010)

stickman said:


> So for you it's a status symbol among flashaholics.....That same light shouldn't cost more than $150......you overpaid!



Overpaid?

HA! Seriously?! I'd like to see you:

1. Design an original light from scratch from stem to stern while optimizing: Reliability, power source, light engine, LED, water resistance, reflector design, switch design, beam pattern, etc.
2. Prototype and testing
3. Purchase the stock, parts, and pay for small run machining 
4. Assembly and shipping.

Assign yourself an hourly wage, see how much time you spend on the production run, then see how much you would charge for your light.

The small runs of lights that Don puts out sell out for a reason REGARDLESS of the material they are constructed of. To some they are status symbols, others a work of art, but to users, they are spectacular ORIGINAL designs that not only work, but excel at what they do, and are considered innovations in flashlight design.

Overpaid? I say money well spent!


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## stickman (Mar 6, 2010)

BigHonu said:


> Overpaid?
> 
> HA! Seriously?! I'd like to see you:
> 
> ...


 
easy....it's called mass production. I'd have the plans setup and given to a manufacturer with a starting order of 100 to 250 pcs. All things handmade are expensive. But all things that can be mass produced can be affordable.
Oh, you can't argue about Gold. It's value will never be less than the Gold standard and last I looked it's been rising for years. Comparing maple to pine is kinda weak, maybe walnut to pine, and in that case it's value stays high over time because of rising build costs. Once the woods patina sets in it keeps getting higher. 
True innovation will be found in the battery source, not the torch. No matter how powerful LED's become the tradeoff will always be a lower runtime. Your Ti light will be a forgotten paperweight in 5 yrs.















Looks like I struck a nerve on this one.


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## carrot (Mar 6, 2010)

I have been carrying my custom Ti light for maybe three years now. I don't see why I won't be carrying it five years from now. It suits my needs perfectly and if the runtime and output works well for me now it will continue to work well for me later.


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## McGizmo (Mar 6, 2010)

GLOCK18 said:


> How about a light made from 18-8 stainless wonder if it would rust.



18-8 can be a number of the 300 series, 302,303 &304 I believe. There are some naval documents I have run across basically stating that these stainless steels should not be found on ships due to their corrosion issues. 316 however enjoys a better reception. I have lived on and around the ocean for a number of years and stains less or rusts less steel is just that. Plastic can definitely be superior to most metals in the marine environment but UV and oxidation can take its toll.

I don't know how many of this type of thread I have responded to in regards to my personal reason for "why titanium" or come to the defense to some extent in justification of using this metal. I don't know about anyone else but any more if someone asks me why titanium my simple response is because that's the material I prefer and I can have a titanium light. It's my choice and I wouldn't think of trying to convince someone else that it should be their choice.

The OP states he likes to stir things up now and then and perhaps this thread is in that vein. I am happy for him. :nana:

"Why titanium?" Well why not titanium? If we have choices then folks can chose and that's cool in my opinion.

For stickman to boldly state that my Haiku shouldn't sell for over $150 tells me that it's a waste of time to answer him re: "why titanium". The good news for him is that he doesn't have to buy a titanium light. The good news for me is that it is unlikely he and I will be doing any business.


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## PeaceOfMind (Mar 6, 2010)

stickman said:


> No matter how powerful LED's become the tradeoff will always be a lower runtime.



This is not true. Newer LED's are more efficient, thus more light for less power.


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## johnny3073 (Mar 6, 2010)

McGizmo said:


> "Why titanium?" Well why not titanium? If we have choices then folks can chose and that's cool in my opinion.
> 
> For stickman to boldly state that my Haiku shouldn't sell for over $150 tells me that it's a waste of time to answer him re: "why titanium". The good news for him is that he doesn't have to buy a titanium light. The good news for me is that it is unlikely he and I will be doing any business.


 
Well played! :thumbsup:

To the OP...Since you've admitted that you like to stir it up, aka trolling, here's the answer to your question "Why Titanium":

Econ 101. There is a demand that can be met by a supplier and vice versa. It's about as pointless as asking, "Why Rocky Road ice cream? I don't see the value in Rocky Road, and regular Chocolate can fill my cone just the fine". Both get the job done just fine, but the market is smart enough to offer the choice.


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## BigHonu (Mar 6, 2010)

stickman said:


> easy....it's called mass production. I'd have the plans setup and given to a manufacturer with a starting order of 100 to 250 pcs. All things handmade are expensive. But all things that can be mass produced can be affordable.



Agreed that mass production can be affordable, but if you think that 100 to 250 pieces will get you anywhere close to the $150/unit point you are looking for, then I'd say you missed counting up some pennies somewhere.



stickman said:


> [snip]
> True innovation will be found in the battery source, not the torch. No matter how powerful LED's become the tradeoff will always be a lower runtime. Your Ti light will be a forgotten paperweight in 5 yrs.


 
I would definitely like smaller batteries with more mAh at a high discharge rate! 

Seems like LED efficiency has been growing by leaps and bounds over the last two years. I get brighter light, AND longer runtime. My Haiku XP-G will do an hour at 170ish lumens on 1xCR123. Heck I remember when an ARC-LS was 40-45 lumens with about a 2 hour (IIRC) runtime not too long ago.

One of Don's lights serving "paperweight" duties? Won't be one I own!


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## Kgp (Mar 6, 2010)

Well said, Don. I personally find the haiku perfect in form and function. The type of person I am, I want the best. Regardless of price, and when it comes to lights, titanium is what I want. I just wanted to say thanks for the great lights you make, Don! As I'm sure you know, you have alot of supporters here.



McGizmo said:


> 18-8 can be a number of the 300 series, 302,303 &304 I believe. There are some naval documents I have run across basically stating that these stainless steels should not be found on ships due to their corrosion issues. 316 however enjoys a better reception. I have lived on and around the ocean for a number of years and stains less or rusts less steel is just that. Plastic can definitely be superior to most metals in the marine environment but UV and oxidation can take its toll.
> 
> I don't know how many of this type of thread I have responded to in regards to my personal reason for "why titanium" or come to the defense to some extent in justification of using this metal. I don't know about anyone else but any more if someone asks me why titanium my simple response is because that's the material I prefer and I can have a titanium light. It's my choice and I wouldn't think of trying to convince someone else that it should be their choice.
> 
> ...


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## stickman (Mar 6, 2010)

This is exactly why I stirred it up. I've found that when striking a nerve on a subject you get true heartfelt answers and not the same blah blah that usually comes with it. The past few points of others have been very good! I understand the point of increased led efficiency, but it seems that in order to gain efficiency, you also increase lumen output which inturn drives down runtime. Sure there are some variables from other factors, but that's what I've observed. Follow the path, Q3-Q5-R2-R5-sst-50......
Lumen output increases given the same voltage input, but increased mah is needed in order for runtimes to stay the same.
Gizmo's lights are beautiful indeed and it's nice to see those make a real argument to get one.......


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## scout24 (Mar 6, 2010)

Stickman- Back in post 38, you said make the same lights out of Aluminum and there would be nothing special about them... I suggest you look at some early McGizmo's, particularly the McLux PD's and there bretheren. Perhaps one of the most coveted designs seen here. And the precursor to the Ti PD's, (PD-S, Lunasol series) which must be held and used to be appreciated. Bombproof, elegant and simple, no matter the material they are made from. I'll stop now... :kiss:


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## GarageBoy (Mar 6, 2010)

For the ultimate in lightness, I want a Mg flashlight, finished in the same coating Campagnolo and American Racing used to prevent corrosion.


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## Ragiska (Mar 7, 2010)

stickman said:


> This is exactly why I stirred it up. I've found that when striking a nerve on a subject you get true heartfelt answers and not the same blah blah that usually comes with it. The past few points of others have been very good! I understand the point of increased led efficiency, but it seems that in order to gain efficiency, you also increase lumen output which inturn drives down runtime. Sure there are some variables from other factors, but that's what I've observed. Follow the path, Q3-Q5-R2-R5-sst-50......
> Lumen output increases given the same voltage input, but increased mah is needed in order for runtimes to stay the same.
> Gizmo's lights are beautiful indeed and it's nice to see those make a real argument to get one.......


completely wrong. increased efficacy means more light for the SAME (or even better) runtime, and less waste heat.


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## DM51 (Mar 7, 2010)

stickman said:


> I like stirring things up now and then


Those who make provocative posts with the intention of generating adversarial argument or causing annoyance will eventually attract the attention of a moderator. The likely result, if it continues, will be action that the offender will find uncomfortable. 

You have been warned.


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## RedLED (Mar 8, 2010)

Stickman...all your new flashlights are waiting for you at Wal-Mart.

As for the rest of us here who want the Luxury, and fun of Titanium, or because we like it, let us be. You are breaking the hearts of all the Ti lovers, and builders here.

Hey, you want to talk about Ti knives? 

I have a Mission MPK folder, all Ti, and I can still strut thru metal detectors like a hard core Rapper bouncing out of the studio with a girl on each arm his chain hung low, and an entourage of 50 people.

You know, maybe I should have an entourage, it could be good for business.


Disclaimer: if you are a hard core Rapper this is all in fun, and covered under artistic license. I mean no offense, or disrespect to Rappers or the Hip Hop community in general. So please Don't put a cap in me, yo!


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## tino_ale (Mar 13, 2010)

stickman said:


> I understand the point of increased led efficiency, but it seems that in order to gain efficiency, you also increase lumen output which inturn drives down runtime.


This shows how little you know about the basics of LEDs and flashlights. You should really take some time and read many, manny CPF posts (includind the NUMEROUS posts dealing with the *exact* subject you've started) before even considering making comments about how overpriced or overhyped some offers are here...

Compared to the people who are offering these flashlights (in this case McGizmo) you really seem to know close to nothing, I'm sorry!


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## dagored (Mar 13, 2010)

Almost one year ago, I started reading this forum. I was a newbie. I purchased one light then another. $35 - $40 for a flashlight. I thought, are you kidding me. It's a flashlight

Then a titanium Jilite CR2. $150 I have to be crazy. Right?

Two weeks ago I purchased a Haiku XR-E. WOW. I just received an XP-G today. Double Wow

Everything else is a flashlight now. The titanium lights are alluminary equipment.

Not everyone in the world will understand. Many here will. That's all right.


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## flasherByNight (Mar 13, 2010)

Just polished up my Quark, and just wow...think I'm converted.

I used to be like meh...but the fact that it can be rejuvenated back to new/better than new is pretty neat. Plus it seems to take on a different _feel_ now that it's been polished

At least for pocket/keychain edc's that get banged up, however I wouldn't take the trade offs for my other lights (thermal issues)...I'll stick to Al for those


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