# WF500 + Philips focusline G4



## hyperloop (Aug 14, 2009)

Well, i got the Focusline G4 working in the WF500, running off 2x Trustfire 18650s (unprotected) have to click on and then half click once or twice but no issue there, thanks for all the help guys.

Would AW's protected 18650s work better in this light? It states on his sales thread that they're the only cells that will light up the WA bulbs so it should work better here right? 

*end of the updated updated question*
*


UPDATED QUESTION (so as not to post another thread)

*okay, i decided to try unprotected 18650s and duly ordered and received 2 of them and now the WF-500 lights up fine, however, the bulb still wont light up 

i thought unprotected cells might solve it but after re-reading the review on DX, it stated that it would light up on AW's IMR cells but doesnt say anything about unprotected 18650s.

Could the incand experts here give me a pointer or 2?? Thanks

*End of updated question*


This would be my first foray into incan lights, i ordered an Ultrafire WF 500 off DX and it arrived yesterday and also these 18650s.

Strange thing is, i have to click 2 times before the light activates i.e. click on, click off, then click on again, is this normal??? 

Also i got the Philips G4 focusline bulb but it doesnt turn on no matter how many times i am clicking.

Any advice, pointers or tips from the kind folks here at CPF would be most appreciated.


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## Norm (Aug 14, 2009)

*Re: Ultrafire WF 500 question*

Ultrafire WF 500 google search of CPF
You have to double click because the current draw of your bulb is too high for the protection on your batteries the resistance of the bulb increases after the first click and the bulb has warmed up it then draws less current so the protection isn't activated and the bulb lights.
Same resaon your Philips G4 focusline bulb won't start, it's draws too much current for the battery protection.
Norm


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## hyperloop (Aug 14, 2009)

*Re: Ultrafire WF 500 question*

thanks for the reply norm, is that also why my light shuts itself off after 20 seconds or so??

The solution then would be unprotected 18650s? or AW's IMR18650s?


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## Norm (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: Ultrafire WF 500 question*

I could be, just depends on the trigger point of the battery protection.
The solution then would be unprotected 18650s? or AW's IMR18650s? Yes to both.
Norm


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## xenonk (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: Ultrafire WF 500 question*

What Norm said, and as it's a reverse clicky you can streamline the startup by tapping the switch once or twice instead of clicking all the way off. I've got a cheapy incan setup that needs a couple of start attempts and when I lend it to people I tell them to "jiggle the switch".

AW's IMR batteries would provide more reliable startup, as they can safely pass very high current.

Unprotected batteries would also solve the problem, but could introduce entirely new ones if you are not careful.


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## lightmyway (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: Ultrafire WF 500 question*

AW protected 18650 work in mine, this was discussed about a year ago.


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## hyperloop (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: Ultrafire WF 500 question*

thanks for all the input guys, its working fine now, this is actually my 2nd WF500, the first one fired up fine for all of 5 seconds then died, no amount of jiggling the switch etc worked, i was wondering if it could have been a problem with the tailcap.

anyhoo, sent it back to DX and they promptly replaced it.

Tried using the philips focusline bulb (also from DX) but no amount of clicking, half clicking gets it to work, does this bulb require more current than my cells can give? visual inspection shows that the filament is still intact


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: Ultrafire WF 500 question*

Use any protected AW (2200 or 2600 mAh) or IMRs. And get the HO-R5 from Lumens Factory, this will be a great upgrade.

Cheers.


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## ateallthepies (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: Ultrafire WF 500 question*

I have an ultrafire wf-600 and use the unprotected 18650's that came with it and it turns on first time every time! Yes I am careful using unprotected batteries.

I also have an ultrafire g90 and it needed the double click to make it work with the three supplied protected ultrafire rcr123a's. Also it turns off by itself after about a minute.

I have recently purchaced some AW rcr123a's and both problems with the g90 have resolved themselves

I have had several ultrafire brand batteries not work as the should by testing with a DMM. Don't know if trustfires are any better though?


Steve.


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## hyperloop (Sep 1, 2009)

*Re: Ultrafire WF 500 question*

sorry to bother you guys again, got another question, and updated post #1


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## ateallthepies (Sep 1, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

You have checked the bulb with a continuity meter?


Steve.


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## hyperloop (Sep 1, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

Hello Steve, you have me at a major disadvantage here as i have absolutely no technical, engineering, electrical background, what the heck is a continuity meter? I just got my first digital multimeter


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 2, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*



hyperloop said:


> Hello Steve, you have me at a major disadvantage here as i have absolutely no technical, engineering, electrical background, what the heck is a continuity meter? I just got my first digital multimeter



Switch the multimeter to the setting which has the diode picture





Touch both of the bulb legs with the probes

When it beeps you have continuity and you will know that the filament of the bulb is intact.


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## hyperloop (Sep 4, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

thanks for the input, but my philips bulb came as a drop in as pictured here and i'll have to go home and check if my DMM has that symbol, ignorant me just checks cell voltage 

so how do i check continuity with a drop in?


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 4, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*



hyperloop said:


> thanks for the input, but my philips bulb came as a drop in as pictured here and i'll have to go home and check if my DMM has that symbol, ignorant me just checks cell voltage
> 
> so how do i check continuity with a drop in?



Probe the outer spring and another probe on the inner (center) Spring.


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## hyperloop (Sep 4, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

well, i'll be a busted filament in old style light bulb, it works! So now that i have established that my philips bulb has continuity, the next burning question that i have is: then why doesnt the darn thing work in my WF500 when the stock bulb does?!?!

Thanks for your patience with me, much appreciated


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## ateallthepies (Sep 4, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

You need to rig up a 6 volt battery or supply directly to your non-working bulb, without the torch casing involved.

Positive to the inner spring, negative to the outer.

If it does not still light, there is something awry with that bulb.


Steve.


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## hyperloop (Sep 4, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

man, this is way over my head, think i will just order another bulb


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## Fusion_m8 (Sep 5, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

Not much point buying another bulb or 10... the issue would be the batteries, Trustfire/Ultrafire cells are a 50:50 bet when it comes to powering up hi-current bulbs.

Spend the money where its needed: getting GOOD batteries like AW protected 18650 or IMR18650s, its almost a SUREFIRE(get it??) that the flashlight will turn on everytime...

Read the review by nomoney regarding the Philips G4 Focusline bulb on DX's website.



hyperloop said:


> man, this is way over my head, think i will just order another bulb


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## Raoul_Duke (Sep 5, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*



ateallthepies said:


> You need to rig up a 6 volt battery or supply directly to your non-working bulb, without the torch casing involved.
> 
> Positive to the inner spring, negative to the outer.
> 
> ...



It doesn't matter which way you connect a battery to an incandecant lamp. Its a colied up wire, so will light up either way you hook up a cell. also voltage isnt important for a test, you could use any battery, a long as the voltage doesn't exeed its voltage rating. It will get brighter the higher voltage you put across it ( untill you go higher than the rated voltage, then you will flash it  ) 

( LED's on the other hand do need to be hooked the right way ( for drop in led modules this would be the way you described above.
You can use the Diode checker on a multimeter to check led's; its the same setting as the picture above, get the meters leads the right way round and you will make the led glow, thus letting you know the led contact polarity.)




hyperloop,


If the stock lamp works in the light, with a double tap, but you have a brighter, higher wattage, DX one, you could have a couple of issues.

The new lamp is not making contact with the light body. you could test all with your meter.

(You can Check your tail cap by putting one of your probes on the switch spring, and then one on the return path, probably a washer, or metal disk around the spring. ( you have to have the switch turned on to get continuity.) But the switch has worked before, so i'm guessing thats not the problem. good way to practice with your meter though)

You should assemble your light, with the new DX lamp, with the tail cap off, and put one probe on the end of the body ( has to be a section that is not anodised) and the other probe on the cell, if it beeps you have continuity, and the bulb springs do not need to be adjusted in the head. 

If this doesn't beep you may have a lamp to body contact issue, you may also want to try to test it with no cells, and put the probe right down in the body on the midle lamp spring, and the other probe on the tail end of the light.

The issue then could be ( and as said above probably is) your cells protection circuit.

What you are doing when you double click is;

The lamp when cold is low resistance, you turn it on and the protection circuit thinks that you are trying to pull too much current than is safe for the cell, and it shuts down the cell. It thinks you have shorted the cell, conected the +ve end to the -ve end. its protecting the battery.

using the stock lamp, If you click, and then click again the firsts click you are warming the filament ( if you look close on the first click you will see it glow, be carful not to click twice and blind yourself  ) this first click has just increased the resistance of the filament, untill it cools. 

If you are quick enough on your second click, before the filament cools, you keep the filament resistance higher than when it's cold, the protection circuit on the cell is happy, as you are demanding less current from the cell, it falls withing the range of the over current protection circuit threshold, becasue the filament resistance is higher, and less current can flow from the cell so it lets you run the lamp.

On the larger DX lamp ,my suspicion is no matter how many times you tap the lamp filament is such a beast that it need more current than the cells protection circuit is prepared to provide full stop.

So you need cells with a higher current limmit on the protection circuit to run the larger wattage lamp, or as i said above you have contact issues between the lamp and the body or the cells and the lamp when you install the Dx lamp.

All these measurements are done on the setting in the pic above from xeonsaga88. The leads have to be in the appropriate connection point on the meter, they should be labled.

You can measure the current your stock lamp pulls If you have an 'A' (Amps/ Current) setting on your meter for DC ( Direct current) current flat line underlined by a broken line, (not the ~ A setting. ( thats alternating current)) and you have a 10 A ( ten Amp) conection point on your meter ( and no fused test leads) you can put one probe on the end of the the cell ( dont put it in the lower rated current connection point, my meter here has a lower range of 300mA ( putting the test lead in the is hole will blow the 300mA fuse, as the lamp will deffo pull more than 300mA) So you need the 10A DC setting.

Again You should assemble your light, but with the stock lamp, with the tail cap off, and put one probe on the end of the body ( has to be a section that is not anodised) and the other probe on the end of the cell. ( you will need to doube tap the probe, like you double tap the tail cap, the light should turn on, and you should be able to see the current draw on the cells.

As said above I think you need cells with a higher current threshold in the protection circuit for the larger lamp, or to get over the double tapping BTW may need tripple or quad tapping) on the first lamp. Doble tap can actually be handy if you didnt want the light to turn on inadvertantly in your bag/ pocket, but I found it annoying.

I would not recomend getting unprotected cells or IMR cells to replace these, unless you understand all of the above, and learn a bit more. IMR cells can give up a huge amout of current if you short them , and thats not safe, unprotected cells are dangerous if you dont know what you are doing.

Let me know how you get on.


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## Phaserburn (Sep 5, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

My WF-500 fires up first time every time using any AW 18650s; IMR are not needed. Besides the LF bulb, get a Mag D size UCL for the extra lumens. I love this combo.


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## FlashKat (Sep 5, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

Make sure the inner spring on the lamp assembly is long enough to make contact with the batteries.


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## hyperloop (Sep 5, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

thanks for all the input esp Raoul, i am currently using unprotected 18650s in the WF500, no issues there, am paranoid about them so i will be extremely careful with those.

So i stuck the positive (red) in the 10A Max unfused socket, left the negative lead (black) in the socket labelled COM, set the dial to the icon for continuity that is shown above (the one that looks like an alarm signal)

Inserted the Focusline bulb, negative lead to negative end of the cell and positive lead to unanodised section *and the bulb lit up!!*

what's wrong here man? I really wish i had studied harder and gone on to do more technical subjects  knowing a whole load of ancient history aint that useful here!


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 5, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*



Raoul_Duke said:


> You should assemble your light, with the new DX lamp, with the tail cap off, and put one probe on the end of the body ( has to be a section that is not anodised) and the other probe on the cell, if it beeps you have continuity, and the bulb springs do not need to be adjusted in the head.



I think you need to remove the cell to measure continuity , with the cell there there , it would not beep.


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 5, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*



hyperloop said:


> thanks for all the input esp Raoul, i am currently using unprotected 18650s in the WF500, no issues there, am paranoid about them so i will be extremely careful with those.
> 
> So i stuck the positive (red) in the 10A Max unfused socket, left the negative lead (black) in the socket labelled COM, set the dial to the icon for continuity that is shown above (the one that looks like an alarm signal)
> 
> ...



If you are measuring continuity , your red probe is in the wrong hole, it should be in the hole withe the V, OHM logo.

your probe is currently in the hole to measure current. It is like a closed circuit. Since your bulb lights i suspect it is the switch problem , or the springs are not long enough to contact the battery. Did you notice any rattling with the switch in place?


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## hyperloop (Sep 6, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

since the focusline lit up, im figuring it must be a switch problem too, but the switch works fine with the stock bulb man, i am puzzled


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## FlashKat (Sep 6, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

There is a possibility that the inner spring is shorter than the stock lamp which be causing the batteries not to make contact. Check the length of the springs on both lamp assemblies. If it is shorter than the stock one then stretch the spring to the correct length.


FlashKat said:


> Make sure the inner spring on the lamp assembly is long enough to make contact with the batteries.


 


xeonsaga88 said:


> or the springs are not long enough to contact the battery. Did you notice any rattling with the switch in place?


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## Raoul_Duke (Sep 6, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*



xeonsaga88 said:


> I think you need to remove the cell to measure continuity , with the cell there there , it would not beep.



Thats about the only point I was uncomfortable about posting about. 

But before I did, I tried in on the light in my pocket, that has 2 x RCR 123 protected cells, and beeped & the test worked.

But as i said if possible, try to remove the cells, and put one probe down in to the light on the center spring, but hard to tell exactly whats going on down there.



If you are using unprotected cells, then you have no protection circuit issues.

I'm wondering if the new lamps center spring is long enough, and needs to be streched to allow the cells to be pushed togehter and against the tail cap before.


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## hyperloop (Sep 6, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

first off, i'd really like to thank all of you who've taken the time to help this tech-handicapped person here, your input has been most helpful indeed. To summarise:-

1. I'm using unproteced 18650 cells in the WF500 with a magnetic spacer on the positive end of the 2nd cell (cell nearer the tailcap). No issues at all when using the stock WF500 bulb.

2. I have cleaned all potential contact areas in the WF500

3. I have tightened the tail cap switch so that it doesnt rattle (its a reverse clicky by the way)

4. I have tested the spring of the Focusline bulb and stretched it a bit anyway.

5. After all that, i have put the pieces together but the bulb doesnt light up.

6. removed tailcap, tested with DMM (positive lead in 10A socket, negative lead in COM socket) set to the 'beep' symbol - BULB LIGHTS UP

switch problem???

again, a heartfelt thanks to all who posted and even to those who read and thought about posting haha


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 6, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*



hyperloop said:


> first off, i'd really like to thank all of you who've taken the time to help this tech-handicapped person here, your input has been most helpful indeed. To summarise:-
> 
> 1. I'm using unproteced 18650 cells in the WF500 with a magnetic spacer on the positive end of the 2nd cell (cell nearer the tailcap). No issues at all when using the stock WF500 bulb.
> 
> ...




Hmm but you said the switch was alright with the old bulb , hmm you try putting a piece of aluminium foil (Fold it, to act like a spacer) , between the batteries and the switch, if you do i have a spacer. I suspect is the new lamp has a shorter center spring.

Or you could try to pull the spring on your tailcap to lengthen it.
Hope that helps.


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## Raoul_Duke (Sep 6, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*



hyperloop said:


> first off, i'd really like to thank all of you who've taken the time to help this tech-handicapped person here, your input has been most helpful indeed. To summarise:-
> 
> 1. I'm using unproteced 18650 cells in the WF500 with a magnetic spacer on the positive end of the 2nd cell (cell nearer the tailcap). No issues at all when using the stock WF500 bulb.



But double clicking with your protected cells showing the cells are right on the limit with that lamp...test what current that lamp is pulling, ( see point 6, and double tap the probes on the cell to light up, and read your meter) but thats just out of interest at the minute 

Is that magnetic spacer insulated? You dont want it to slip. If you are going to do this, I'd put it between the cells, and wrap the joint betweeen the cells in tape, or a roll of paper so that if it slips it will not contact anything else, if there is enough width to do so in the host. But as a general rule, magnets and batterys...epecially unprotected cells are risky.

Have you done a beep test on your magnet, not all are conductive 



hyperloop said:


> 2. I have cleaned all potential contact areas in the WF500



 Good



hyperloop said:


> 3. I have tightened the tail cap switch so that it doesnt rattle (its a reverse clicky by the way)



Should be fine as works with the stock bulb.



hyperloop said:


> 4. I have tested the spring of the Focusline bulb and stretched it a bit anyway.



You mentioned you had tested lamp continuity, and thats OK



hyperloop said:


> 5. After all that, i have put the pieces together but the bulb doesnt light up.



I had a switch problem once, where the only way I could sort it was to wrap the switch center sping with electrical tape, and just leave a tiny bit poking out the end of the tape to touch on the cells. I dont think this is the case, but running out of ideas. :thinking:

You could also try this at the lamp center spring. After you have checked continuity throught the setup with the tailcap off throught the cells. You have to be on the V setting with your +ve lead lined up in the V hole

Do this one at a time, on the tailcap and lamp center spring to try to see where the fault is.



hyperloop said:


> 6. removed tailcap, tested with DMM (positive lead in 10A socket, negative lead in COM socket) set to the 'beep' symbol - BULB LIGHTS UP



With the leads where they are in the meter, you are alowing the current to flow through the meter, it doesn't matter where the dial is, you have a connection throught the meter completing the circuit. Keeping the leads where they are, turn the dial to Amps (A) Dc and you can now read the current the bulb is pulling, helps to know this for ( aproximate) run time calculations, and selection of cells, ( and to see if you can get some protected cells that work for this lamp once we sort our problem.
Make sure you are not lighting up the light just with one test lead by shorting the body to the base of the cell.

Do not leave the leads in the there ever when you are finished with the meter. If you come back to use the meter at a different time, and you want to check say for example a batterys voltage, You will dial to the V setting, and forget you are still lined up for current. You wont see the voltage, but you will short circuit the battery you are trying to get a voltage reading on. A protected cell wont allow this, but an unprotected one will rapidy start to discharge, and you'll get few a little spark for your efforts.



hyperloop said:


> switch problem ???



 I dont think so. You tested your switch right? once on the stock bulb in the lamp. So with the test leads in the same place, Dial on the audable setting. switch the switch on and of to make it beep.
Make sure you are not lighting up the light just with one test lead by shorting the body to the base of the cell..



hyperloop said:


> Again, a heartfelt thanks to all who posted and even to those who read and thought about posting haha



 Thats fine...I enjoy this much more than doing my real job. ( I'm currently at work ).


How long are your unprotected cells, Vs your protected cells. Are they flat top +ve end, or do they have a + nipple?


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## hyperloop (Sep 6, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

Hi Duke,

the unprotected 18650s are trustfires and they're flat top, the magnetic spacer is in between the 2 cells and will not slip, its conductive as it works fine with the stock bulb.

every surface that is supposed to contact any other surface is working fine, i'm just kinda puzzled is all.

i did find that after the focusline lit up and then went off by itself after about 10 plus seconds, that there was a strong chemical-ish odor from the tailcap.

puzzled puzzled, anyway, will stick with the stock bulb for now. Any recommendation for a host for the focusline?  if the bulb dont work in the host, get another host for the bulb!! But probably a better one, and will get AW's IMRs to go with it.


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## ateallthepies (Sep 7, 2009)

*Re: ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - regarding the Philips bulb*

Hyper,

Did you buy some more 18650 UN-protected cells? I ask as the ones you got with the torch in your original post are protected Trustfires?



Steve.


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## hyperloop (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: YET ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - no more bulb, recommend me a good incand*

i've updated the updated question so as not to post another question, talk about recycling a thread 

ateallthepies: the only unprotected cells i have are those that i specifically bought to try the WF500 in, trustfires i believe they were. no cells came with the WF500.


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## ateallthepies (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: YET ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - no more bulb, recommend me a good incand*

In your opening post, you have a link to some 18650 batteries you bought to try with the WF-500.

They are grey Trustfire PROTECTED batteries.

So it could be your batteries that are the problem after all?


Steve.


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## hyperloop (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: YET ANOTHER Ultrafire WF 500 question - no more bulb, recommend me a good incand*



ateallthepies said:


> In your opening post, you have a link to some 18650 batteries you bought to try with the WF-500.
> 
> They are grey Trustfire PROTECTED batteries.
> 
> ...



those were the batteries i bought based on the feed back i saw on DX, i ditched those and got a further set of unprotected cells, which work flawlessly with the stock bulb. All my problems with the focusline bulb were running the WF500 with *unprotected cells*


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## hyperloop (Sep 24, 2009)

hi, thanks for stopping by, please see post #1


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