# Thinking of buying a Wicked Laser, who actually has one and recommends it?



## tron3 (Mar 10, 2006)

Ok, been looking at these a while. I am thinking about the $500 Extreme.

Do I need safety googles, how harmful is the reflected beam, etc. I e-mailed Wicked Lasers days ago and they have yet to respond.

I know they are dangerous to eyes, but how hot is it to the skin? Will regular sunglasses protect me from beam reflection?

Although I can't post it here, I did find an actual 10% promo code, making the laser $450.

I'm practically blinded by the pics I see of this thing. It's a scary thing to own. What are your thoughts and opinions?


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## Yobresal (Mar 10, 2006)

GLASSES/GOGGLES: Yes, you need goggles/glasses that block out 532nm. 125mW of laser to the eye can do damage faster than your blink reflex can react to avoid it. Regular sunglasses are not recommended because they won't help. 
SKIN BURNING: As for burning the skin. Givin the laser and you are both stationary, you should be able to feel the sting of a 125mW laser from at least 3 feet away depending on divergence. You aren't going to need to worry about accidently shining the laser at your skin and getting hurt. 
PROMO CODE: That's nice you found a 10% dicount code, apparently 3 days ago when I ordered the same laser I didn't look hard enough. In any case, exercise caution when using this laser, you might have protective eyewear, but the people around you most likely don't. 
IMO: These pen style lasers are very portable because of their slim pen size. They are also pretty powerful little buggers. The downside is the duty cycle. With a 125mW laser you should probably have a heatsink. But with a heatsink you lose some portability. Hence the duty cycle. It's a choice you need to make. Do you get a small 125mW laser with a duty cycle? or do you get a larger 125mW laser with no duty cycle? 
Good luck with your laser, I hope everything works out for you.
-Luke


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## metalhed (Mar 10, 2006)

You might want to read this thread before making a decision on purchasing from Wicked Lasers.


Just a suggestion tho'...


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## tron3 (Mar 10, 2006)

Ok...looks like I will NOT get one. It's a lot of money for a toy that is less useful than a flashlight.


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## Yobresal (Mar 10, 2006)

I wouldn't go as far as to say that a laser is a toy, nor would I consider a laser less usefull than a flashlight. They are equally as usefull for different applications. For instance I could claim that lasers are more useful than flashlights because flashlights cannot point out a specific vavle or weld on a pipe at an oil refinery. This is making a comparison argument based on one application of the device in question and cannot represent the usefullness of either device in all applications.


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## Chief117 (Mar 10, 2006)

I would highly reccomend wicked lasers. I recently purchased a spyder 300mW from them for lab work, and its an excellent laser. From what I have heard, the 125mW is insanely bright. But, if you are planning on just getting a laser for recreational use, I would suggest a lower power to avoid potential eye damage and other hazards. For instance, bright but not as scarily dangerous, the 55mW. 

As for burning skin, you can't really hurt yourself with it unless you are purposely holding the laser on your skin for a few seconds. This will be about 15 seconds for the 55mW. For eyes, according to a laser expert you will experience permanent eye damage from a 50mW laser in 1/1200th of a second. 

If you are just starting with lasers, I would try pot modding a leadlight first so you can sample the power of green lasers. 

And finally, if you are desperate for high power in the 100mW range, and its purpose is recreational, I would also highly reccomend laserglow.com, as they have high powered lasers with added safety features to avoid accidental activation. I hope this helps!

-Brandon


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## SuperBert (Mar 10, 2006)

For a tiny bit over $500, you can get yourself a much more stable, much more legal, and much brighter handheld module.

check out:

www.optotronics.com

Jack is great to work with, and the item you will recieve will be of top notch. Best of all, it's legal to own in the US.

The output on these devices will be much more stable than any pointer can ever offer, and much higher b/c of it's higher outputting 808nm diode.

hope this helps.

-Brett


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## Chief117 (Mar 10, 2006)

*Not wanting to argue, wanting healthy debate*

Also much bigger! I hate to say it, but optotronics lasers don't have safety features either, they are just as illegal. 

I had one of them a while back before it broke. It was a 150mW I believe? New off ebay, in the box, non broken seal. I got it for about $600 at that time. The product itself is excellent, stable, and a good duty cycle. These lasers are IDEAL for lab work, due to the lack of unnessacary safety features. The thing is delicate though, I dropped it three feet accidentally and it never worked again.

My pheonix from Wicked Lasers has been dropped many times and it still works at about 77mW when the label sais <80mW. 

I support both companies greatly.

I think what you are looking for is a Pyxis 50-100mW from laserglow. Small, stable, safe, quality. If you want size, go for wicked. If you want endurance, go for optotronics. If you want recreation, power, safety and quality go for a pyxis.


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## comozo (Mar 10, 2006)

In my opinion if you have to ask the questions you did then you are not ready for something that is a class 3b laser.


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## SuperBert (Mar 10, 2006)

the pyxis is no longer available through LaserGlow... it is, though, @ www.amazing1.com... all it is is an outdated CNI module... i do believe the optotronics have safety features as well; otherwise they wouldn't get into the US


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## Chief117 (Mar 10, 2006)

Do they? The one I had was just a click on and click off like the spyders. I'm not sure what is happening these days, there might be added safety features now. . I dont see any from the pics, but hey, Ive been wrong before!

As for laser beginners, I would have to agree with Comozo. Try modding a leadlight to get an idea of what these can do, and work your way up. I would also reccomend sampling lasers from different companies instead of just sticking to one company. From my experience, every single laser company has some things that the others just don't have.

For the pyxis, it might be outdated, but outdated and obsolete are two different words with two different meanings. The pyxis is still an excellent laser, regardless of what out there is better.

This is what always happens with any technology, something better always comes out soon enough


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## nero_design (Mar 11, 2006)

I feel that you might want to do some more research into if you need a Class 3B laser or if you could get by with a <5mW laser pointer. Sunglasses will not protect your eyes in the even of an accident and if your laser is more than say 10mW and you get a reflection in the eye, you may injure yourself. For this reason, most laser owners doing work or experiments with such devices will purchase a set of safety glasses designed to protect their eyes from the wavelength of light being used. If the laser is over 35mW, the risk is really quite high.

I would suggest taking a closer look at your uses for a Class 3B laser and then decide how much power you require should you decide to buy one.

As for your question about the supplier in question (Wicked Lasers), I can recommend them myself. In my experiences with them over the last year, they have been quick to deliver, they have a good returns policy and they guarrentee delivery anywhere in the world or you get a refund. I've got a few lasers from WL and I photograph their products for their uses on occasion.

If they haven't answered your email and you sent it a day or two ago, WL sometimes takes a couple of days break from emails towards the end of a week (possibly their weekend?) so you'll hear from them shortly.


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## jellyfish414 (Mar 11, 2006)

I'll second everyone's opinion here and recommend you not get a 3B laser unless you really have the use for one.

If you do go with the high power, Laserglow seems to be the more reliable and trustworthy choice. We shouldn't get into the whole thing again, but the January letter from the FDA says importers of Wicked Lasers can be fined up to $1000 if the company refuses to address the issue themselves, and WL says they will not recognize the FDA's regulations. 

I haven't seen anyone say they've been fined yet, but I don't think you want to risk being the first...


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## Chief117 (Mar 11, 2006)

I won't argue. I'm just speaking from personal experience, both companies have their strong points. However my spyder 300 came to chicago just fine, and my pyxis was held at customs for a few days.

I will stick to the same answer, get a 5mW. Those things can be really bright if you order the right ones. If you are still desperate for power pot mod it.


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## monkeyboy (Mar 14, 2006)

Am I the only one who is concerned about little kids getting hold of one of these 125mW beasts and goinig around blinding people with them?
I'm glad I live in the UK where 2mW is the maximum power of laser pen you can buy.

I would be scared to own one of these myself - It looks like a pen-sized toy but has the capability to do some serious eye damage.

I regularly work with powerful lasers and anything over 30mW needs to be operated in a sealed room and screwed down to an optical bench. The thought of walking around with a 125mW laser pen just seems insane.

As for the burning the skin, I think you would need at least 1 watt for that to happen.

- Tron 3, If you need a laser pen, I would recommend stickng to <5mW and saving your money/eyesight.


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## bootleg2go (Mar 14, 2006)

Chief117 said:


> *Not wanting to argue, wanting healthy debate*
> 
> I had one of them a while back before it broke. It was a 150mW I believe? New off ebay, in the box, non broken seal. I got it for about $600 at that time. The product itself is excellent, stable, and a good duty cycle. These lasers are IDEAL for lab work, due to the lack of unnessacary safety features. The thing is delicate though, I dropped it three feet accidentally and it never worked again.
> 
> I support both companies greatly.



Hi Chief117,
I need to correct you a bit. I'm not sure what it is that bought New off Ebay, but it was not a laser from "Optotronics". I've never sold or listed lasers on Ebay, what you bought was probably a PGL-3. There is a small chance a customer of mine listed and sold their laser on Ebay, however it would not have been "New / In the box", it would have probably had substantial use before it was sold to you. If you send me the serial number I can tell you the complete history of the unit if it was one of mine.

A drop of even less than 3 feet onto a fairly hard surface will ruin or misalign most if not all high powered lasers, they are delicate instruments.

If the unit is originally from Optotronics, I could get it repaired for you (out of warranty of course) for less than $200 depending on the what is broken. I only charge for shipping and the costs of repair that are charged back to Optotronics, we don't want to profit on anyone's misfortune.

Thanks
Bootleg2go


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## Chief117 (Mar 14, 2006)

I think that it was one of your customers than. Let me clarify: By "New" I meant it had gone through under 10 battery cycles. Apparently someone bought it for recreation and was tired of it after only a few hours of use. The only thing I remember about the seller is that they spelled the name of your company wrong ("optronics") I think that Optotronics is what they meant. There have been a few of them on ebay recently. I could be wrong though. It was a good unit, whatever it was. I don't still have the unit, I could not find the company that made it until I stumbled across CPF, and learned of the mix up. I sold it to a friend and I think that he used it for parts 

I have been looking around on Optotronics for a while now and I will be purchasing a new +220mW unit this August, assuming that they are still available at that time.


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## Athoul (Mar 14, 2006)

Just a note on the Pysix, I think Laserglow still does sell it as I saw a link to them yesterday. Though you have to dig around a bit to get to them.


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## Chief117 (Mar 15, 2006)

Athoul said:


> Just a note on the Pysix, I think Laserglow still does sell it as I saw a link to them yesterday. Though you have to dig around a bit to get to them.


 
Yes, they are available, but not all of the models. I think just the 80 through 120mW versions.


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## liam_995 (Mar 20, 2006)

I have owned 2 (15mW and 75mW) of the WL lasers and have to say that the product works very well, comes in a very slim package (2 x AAA) and has outstanding customer service from the owner of the company...and like all the others agree that ANY green laser has the potential to cause permanent damage to your eyes or someone else's. There are different glasses/goggles available online that will effectively protect your eyesight when using even the high power 300mW green lasers. But you must use caution at ALL times when using these green lasers because of the high potential for eye damage. They are definitely NOT toys and should be treated like the serious devices they are.
WL lasers have no safety features except the good judgement of those that use them. I am aware of all the safety feature on Laserglow lasers and think they are a great idea...but they are like all green lasers in that once they are turned on and operating, they can do just as much damage as any other laser...IMHO


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## jellyfish414 (Mar 20, 2006)

> I am aware of all the safety feature on Laserglow lasers and think they are a great idea...



Not just a great idea, but the law. Laserglow didn't come up with those features in order to be innovative, they did so in order to sell a legal product, something WL refuses to do.


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## nero_design (Mar 20, 2006)

jellyfish414 said:


> Not just a great idea, but the law. Laserglow didn't come up with those features in order to be innovative, they did so in order to sell a legal product, something WL refuses to do.



Waaaaaaah!
Not necessarily. We've been throught this before. Besides, if you're going to follow the last letter of the law, Laserglow (even with their 'safety/tard features') must demand to see a copy of the purchaser's variance (certificate/licence) prior to selling a Class 3B laser to an individual in the USA. A copy of this variance must be made for Laserglow's records which needs to be archived for a number of years ...if I am not mistaken. And we all know that this simply doesn't happen.

With all the kids (under 18) running around with Laserglow lasers these days, I have to call to question whether such variances were obtained & sighted prior to purchase. The obvious answer is 'no'. Mind you, this only applies to US laserists.

I don't mind safety features on some kinds of lasers. Usually, a locking key is sufficient. This is a fairly universal feature and has been featured on portable and fixed lasers since the 70s.


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## SuperBert (Mar 20, 2006)

A variance is NOT needed until class IV reached; none of the handheld units on Laserglow's site reach this point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is the wicked (the company everyone seems to be so fond of) spyder that users have complained of fluctuating and outputting in the class IV range (which they think is "sweet").

As I have said before, If you want something with a stable output, go with the PPL from Optotronics. The IR output is stronger on the PPL than on any of the wicked pointers (and more stable than any of the spyders).

You will also find safety features on a PPL that you will not find on any of the units from wicked lasers. 

Should anything ever need to get repaired, and the laser needs to be sent back to wicked, and the government decides to crack down, you will be out your money, and your laser. Should you ever have to send a PPL to China, it will pass customs while those without safety features are not.

As for the size problem: with anything great, comes a sacrifice. With the wicked pointer, you sacrifice safety features, a larger, higher outputting, and more stable diode, as well as built in heatsinks and a constant on/off switch. With the PPL, you simply sacrifice size. I think many people actually prefer the size and feel of a larger laser, but I guess it is personal preference.

-Brett


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## jellyfish414 (Mar 20, 2006)

> I don't mind safety features on some kinds of lasers. Usually, a locking key is sufficient.



I don't mind speed limits of some kinds. Simply having a speed limit in a school zone is sufficient.

My argument, like yours is ridiculous and irrelevant. What matters is the law, not your opinion of the it.


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## Athoul (Mar 21, 2006)

I try to remain unbiased towards companies and to consider all things evenly. There are a few things I see that people have written that seem biased without any fact to back it up. For one thing the diodes used in the Spyders are apparently better quality then the 2Watt diodes even though they are 1Watt. Though putting all things aside and just looking at the graphs and numbers for the spyder and Herc, they both seem about on par as stability goes. The huge spikes people had written about has been due to issues with blocking the IR from the laser, this has nothing at all to do with stability. Some people seem to take what they can to put down WL and that is just petty. Both companies have great products, maybe lucky but the lasers I have are all in perfect operating condition and have had absolutely no issues.

Of course stability may vary from unit to unit regardless of what company it comes from. I've seen issues with products from all of the major companies talked about in these forums and others.


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## SuperBert (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote: (Athoul):
For one thing the diodes used in the Spyders are apparently better quality then the 2Watt diodes even though they are 1Watt.

It is a simple given that using a less driven 2W 808nm diode will be much more stable and have a higher output (with less peaks) than an overdriven 1W diode to reach the same effect. You cannot just go say that the diodes of a wicked laser are better simply because you are a fan of them or b/c wicked told you so.

Quote: (Athoul):
I try to remain unbiased towards companies and to consider all things evenly. There are a few things I see that people have written that seem biased without any fact to back it up.

How do we not back up everything we say with fact? What's not fact about overdriven diodes causing unstability? If one were to take a wicked laser, as well as a Hercules, and a PPL, and measure the outputs for longer than 10 seconds, and graph the results, one would certainly find that the wicked is unstable every time.

I don't like seeing fellow forum members pushed in the wrong direction; IMO, as many would agree, for the money, wicked lasers is the wrong direction when the PPL is available. Sorry if this post seems a bit unbiased in itself.


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## Athoul (Mar 21, 2006)

Well having worked with lasers for about 16 years I can say that what you are saying is not based on fact. Nowhere does it say that the Wicked's diodes are over driven and I have personally worked with crystals that can give those outputs without the need to be over driven. Thus I see no fact in that claim of yours. I will retract my statement if you can show me where it says they are overdriven.

You tend to select pieces of what people say without reading the entire thing in order to support your claims. You will notice I said putting things aside, meaning putting aside what I have been told, they seem on par. Thus I had already dismissed the superior diode claim. I'm not saying one is superior to the other, from what I can tell they seem about on par.

Have you ran the Spyder for longer then two minutes? I'm sorry, but I've been in the field for so long and when I see these things being said, they seem very silly to me and come across as pointless bickering. I do not see any facts to your claims just your own personal opinions. If you are going to steer people try to do it without bias. I will not say one is better then the other without having fully tested both of them, however unless you have done this already, you can't make that claim either.


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## Blindspot (Mar 21, 2006)

I think this should be settled with 100 Watt lasers to the eyes at 10 paces. :touche:


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## Erasmus (Mar 21, 2006)

I have a Wicked Laser of around 40 mW and I can recommend it  

Tron3, you should buy a safety goggle.


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## edakoppo (Mar 21, 2006)

Yobresal said:


> GLASSES/GOGGLES: Yes, you need goggles/glasses that block out 532nm. 125mW of laser to the eye can do damage faster than your blink reflex can react to avoid it. Regular sunglasses are not recommended because they won't help.



Forgive my naivete, but do you need goggles to simply project a green laser? I know lasers can damage the eyes by being shined into them, but is damage really possible looking at a laser from behind or beside it?


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## Athoul (Mar 21, 2006)

Blindspot said:


> I think this should be settled with 100 Watt lasers to the eyes at 10 paces. :touche:



Hehe, well I don't think either of us mean any ill will towards one another this is just a discussion. Though if someone wants to donate a complimentary 100 Watt laser I won't refuse 

The original question by the OP was, if he needed goggles to use with an extreme series laser. I am sorry to have added to the direction this thread had went but, yes you should use goggles with any laser IMO of ~30mW and higher. The US army stated somewhere that they use 25mW lasers and that they do not cause damage. From experience I'm inclined to say this is not so, but reflections will not be as risky as higher output lasers. At any rate it's better to have goggles then none at all, I have tested and use Barr and Stroud goggles that can be found on eBay for about $20. These offer excellent protection, though they have a post nuclear war feel to them based on their appearance. They come in a very durable case, and include a cloth. I find the cloth to be rather useless(seems to make more dust then it takes away).

edakoppo > You don't need goggles to look at the beam from behind the laser, unless the beam is being terminated onto a surface where a specular reflection is possible. The goggles are used to prevent exposure to specular reflections or the direct beam. However even with goggles never look into the beams path, they will protect against an accidental exposure but are not ment to take a sustained direct beam.member.php?u=5540


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## Chief117 (Mar 21, 2006)

Ok, I want to see this argument closed once and for all. Whenever someone starts talking about buying from wicked lasers, it always breaks down into some form of argument. 

FIRST OF ALL: I don't know if wicked's diodes are over driven, and frankly, I don't care. If the product comes out high-quality in the end (wich it does from my experience) I don't care how it works.

SECOND OF ALL: I think that I speak for many others when I say (this is not inteded as an attack) your strange fantasy idea of some wild laser conspiracy, and that everyone who supports wicked works for them, is almost 100% false.

THIRD OF ALL: Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion on any forum, opinions don't need to be asked for to be stated. I also think that this huge battle over who's lasers are best, the most legal, or the safest is SO UNBELIEVABLY POINTLESS that they should be put in front of a military class power laser and burned out of existance so that they won't surface again. I think people get the point. Unless someone gets significant evidence one way or the other (NEW evidence please) it will stay pointless.

So help me god if I see another thread break down into this stupid argument, I think that I just might tear my hair. IM TIRED OF IT. ENOUGH ALREADY, this is not what laser discussion should be::touche: :touche: :touche: :touche: :touche: :touche:


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## LaserFreak (Mar 21, 2006)

IMO, there shouldn't be ANY more threads about WL allowed. It never seems to remain just a fact-based discussion. This topic always gets arguments started.


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## Kiessling (Mar 21, 2006)

Banning threads about WL is not the solution for this problem as the probem originates in the desire of some members to either attack or defend WL to an extent that surpasses reasonable discussion and quickly takes the thread off-topic focussing on the eternal dispute.
If this problem lives on moderation will have to be more restrictive unfortunately. I would very much like to avoid this as it is counterproductive to an open forum with a free flow of opinions and arguments.
bernhard


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## Blindspot (Mar 21, 2006)

Laser, laser, burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

In what distant deeps or skies
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
On what wings dare he aspire?
What the hand dare seize the fire?

And what shoulder and what art
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
And, when thy heart began to beat,
What dread hand and what dread feet?

What the hammer? What the chain?
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? What dread grasp
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?

When the stars threw down their spears,
And water'd heaven with their tears,
Did He smile His work to see?
Did He who made the lamb make thee?

Laser, laser, burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?

W. Blake (sorta :naughty: )


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## edakoppo (Mar 22, 2006)

Athoul, thanks for the reply. That helps a lot.


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