# TK35 and 35W HID v 65W xeccon SSK-10T



## subiya (Aug 30, 2011)

Help please
TK35, 35W HID v 65W HID xeccon SSK-10T comparison
I need a powerful hand held spot for the boat and beach. I particularly like the 35,45,65 watt torches currently on EBay as a cheap but convenient solution.
Question is, I have a TK35 which is my first real light. Fantastic!
I bought a 35 watt hid torch which is supposed to be 3300Ln. While it is brighter and has a more concentrated beam than the TK35, to persuade me in my ignorance, that the HID, at 3300 lumens is 4 times brighter then the TK35 will never happen.
So Fenix – 820 lumen personally tested at 200m useful
35watt HID 3300 lumen personally tested at 220m just useful (certainly not 500m)
Do you think A
35,45,65 watt hid 6000 lumen torch good for 1500m would be usefully brighter or throwing good money away?
If it is useful for about 400m I’d be more than happy.
Cheers 
Glen


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## Fusion_m8 (Sep 9, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

Hi Glen:

I have a Titanium Innovations L35 that is rated at 3500lumens, but more like a healthy 2000lumens to me. I have tested max useful throw to be around 450m in a grassy field, easily more effective than a Olight SR90. The 65w HID that you're looking at puts out 4000lumens+ OTF as told to me by a fellow CPFer who has extensive experience with this 65w HID light in the tropical jungles in Asia.

Forget the 6000lumen rating and the 1500m throw claims, they are not real world. How ever the 65w HID will be noticeably brighter than the 35w HID and it will be an effective 400m thrower, to answer both your concerns.

I am in the process of getting another HID light to accompany my L35. I am also looking at the ebay 75W HID light rated at 7500lumens with the 7800mah battery. While it may not out throw my L35, I know its better value than buying a SR90.

What will I be using my HID lights for? My annual camping, fishing and caving trips in Victoria's Gippsland Region.


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## nodoubt (Sep 9, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*



Fusion_m8 said:


> Hi Glen:
> 
> I have a Titanium Innovations L35 that is rated at 3500lumens, but more like a healthy 2000lumens to me. I have tested max useful throw to be around 450m in a grassy field, easily more effective than a Olight SR90. The 65w HID that you're looking at puts out 4000lumens+ OTF as told to me by a fellow CPFer who has extensive experience with this 65w HID light in the tropical jungles in Asia.
> 
> ...




why will a 75 watt hid not out throw a 35 watt hid ??

please explain ??


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## iapyx (Sep 10, 2011)

One fact learned from CPF is:
If you have a light with an X amount of lumens and you want a light that looks twice as bright to the human eye then you will need 4 times X the amount of lumens. So 3300 lumens will look twice as bright to the human eye as 820 lumens.


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## subiya (Sep 10, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

Thanks for replying fusion, makes me feel better about what I've done. Was thinking it’s would be a bit grim if I had to answer my own post, LOL
In the face of such deafening silence I went ahead and ordered the torch. I've also done a bit of experimenting with torch light photo's with my canon 550D so I can put up my own observations of the torch when it arrives.
I had guessed from other pictures posted that doubling the lumens wouldn’t double the distance. Quickly realized that it takes something pretty special to light anything usefully over 4-500 meters. 1500m? That’s specialty gear.
If I didn't have the TK35 I would have been amazed at the 35watt HID I bought but it's HUGE given that it only gives about an extra 25-50m useful light. However it has one big advantage. Hard to lose. 
Anyway, hopefully the new torch will arrive this week and I can put up some observations that may be of use to someone else.
As an aside, I just did the led upgrade to my 2aa maglite. Very cool
Cheers
Glen


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## Fusion_m8 (Sep 10, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

This is because the 75mm reflector on the 75w ebay HID is smaller than the 100mm reflector on the L35 HID.



nodoubt said:


> why will a 75 watt hid not out throw a 35 watt hid ??
> 
> please explain ??


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## IlluminatedOne (Sep 11, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

The difference you are seeing is not due to just the lumens output of the two lights but the LUX value which is a measurement that relates to how far the light will throw the beam of light.

This explains it better than me
http://flashlight-wiki.com/Light_Output_Measurements

So higher lux equals better throw, IIRC if you have a light of 100,000 lux @1m to double the distance the light can throw you would need a light of 400,000 lux @1m in theory.

Your TK35 lux figure is around 25,000+ lux @1m
Your Ebay 35w light IIRC was around 50,000 lux @1m

So although your 35w HID should be putting out more lumens it can only throw them a little further due to the lux figure being only double, so your findings are pretty much spot on if your Tk35 can do 200m and the 35w ebay HID does 220m.
This is due to a number of factors, size of reflector, quality of reflector and Surface brightness of lightsource etc.

I will also explain the difference between Bulb lumens/Emitter lumens or OTF (out the front) lumens.
Alot of the less reputable flashlight makers want to put the highest numbers they can on there products so if they can quote bulb/emitter lumens (you see this alot on ebay) they can have that higher figure as although the bulb/emitter can produce say 1000lumens by the time you factor in the losses through the reflector and glass lens of the flashlight it will be reduced and that's why fenix rates the tk35 at 800+ OTF lumens, if they wanted to play the numbers game they could quote the higher emitter lumens figure to inflate the numbers but they don't as it is misleading and just like you are disappointed with your 35w hid due to it not being double the power and throw of you TK35 which the adverts would lead you to believe.

Also i think the TK35 is rated at 800+ OTF lumens (that figure is pretty accurate), your 35w Ebay light is rated at 3300lumens but it will actually put out a lot less, when tested on this forum the 65w ebay HID was around 4000 OTF lumens so i would guess that the 35w ebay hid would be putting out around 2000 OTF lumens maybe less could even be 1500 OTF lumens as HID bulbs get more efficient at higher drive wattages so that is also why you dont see as many sub 35w HID flashlights as below 35w its hard to get the efficiency needed to make using HID as worthwhile.

It is also usual to not notice small increases in lumens like the difference between 200 and 250 but you will notice between 200 and 400, so your 35w HID light being only 500+ lumens more than the TK could leave you feeling like there is not much difference, but it is due to the way our eyes see the differences in lumens and brightness you tend to need double the lumens to notice a big difference. 


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ated-Short-Arc-amp-HID-spotlight-Lux-readings
This thread shows a list of CP (candlepower) figures for various lights tested on this forum, CP is the LUX value @ 1m.
You can see on this thread how the 40w Polarion X1 HID has a high CP figure of 400k even though it is only a 3inch reflector, this is due to the high quality reflector they use and while although seemingly expensive compared to the Ebay 35/65w lights there is no comparison to the quality of construction and parts used in these lights, and they should throw about twice as far as most other 35w hid's.
You can also see how the big halogen Thor spotlights CP figure of 300k+ even though they have a lower quality reflector is able to produce high CP due to the fact that the reflector is 9inches.
Quite a few of the lights are custom made lights and if you click the links you can see the build threads for them. 

So after that mega wall of text , here is some options that may be useful that a better than your current lights in throw and lumens. 

_
Edited to comply with forum policies_

There was also the Mozo 35w light (was used as a base for a few of the mods in the previous thread listing CP figures) which is a clone of the N30/L35 and used to sell on ebay pretty cheap but they are no longer made but sometimes they come up for sale from time to time at around $100. 
Also alot of people modify those big 9inch Thor spotlights and put in a a HID car 55w conversion kit in them which takes a little bit of work but is fairly easy to do and can make a cost effective powerful spotlight that throws pretty well, but obviously kinda big and heavy but for under $100 you can have a very bright long throwing light which is why they were so popular on here, i modded one of the smaller thors with a hid kit although due to its size i have not used it much though i do occasionally take it out on a walk with me but its a bit overkill lol.
But if you have large open spaces which need the throw and lumens it provides you may have a use for it.

It may also be worth getting a LUX meter so you can measure the figures yourself the LUX meter from dealextreme is around $30, so you never have to wonder about a new light you can measure it to see for yourself, something i have been meaning to get for a while.

So i hope that helps you out a bit in your search for the lights you are after, although some of the options are expensive they can save you money in the long run by not having to get a bunch of low cost lights which never do what you want.
After being here a couple of years and reading tons of threads about different lights and custom ones, you learn a ton of info which helps you make better decisions and hopefully save some money on only getting the lights you really need, although this place has a habit of making you think i really need all of them .


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## subiya (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

Thanks all.
Now I have read the info on light readings but.....??
If I shine my 35W HID directly at my light meter @2 meters and get a reading of 19550lux is this a meaningfull reading?
I see some lux readings are given at anything from 1 - 100M
Perhaps my meter is out/ I get app 160lux reading of a standard 100w household bulb @1m.
Stupid basic newby questions I know but I have looked "a bit" for answers elsewere.
if my lux meter isn't any chop well thats fine.


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 13, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

CPs = lux at 1 meter
Lux at 1 meter = "lux at X meters" * X square
Yours CPs= ~20K lux *2*2 ~ 80,000 cps. 

That's a bid low for 35W HID but its within the range. Cheap Dx lux meters will read 15-20% lower than a good meter. Reading 35W HIDs at about 10 meters may be more accurate.
No need for 100 meter readings unless you get to play with multi million cps short arc lights.

see some reference CPs on HID lights here, one of the ebay 35W HID was measured at ~100,000 cps.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ated-Short-Arc-amp-HID-spotlight-Lux-readings

*3" or smaller Reflector Group*
*...G&P **35W HID*, 3" reflector: *143,000 cp* (measured by jirik_cz)
--*Xeccon SSK-33* 2-mode HID, 3" reflector *35W mode*: *135,000 cp* (Measured by ma_sha1) 
--*Xeccon SSK-33* 2-mode HID, 3" reflector *28W mode*: * 96,000 cp* (Measured by ma_sha1) 
--*MicroFire Warrior III* 3" OP reflector *53,000 cp*  (measured by MorePower)
--*MicroFire Warrior III* OP-polished reflector *92,000 cp*(measured by MorePower)
--*MicroFire Warrior III* 3" SMO reflector, *108,000 cp *(measured by shinetop, 3 meters)
--6600mAH *ebay HID 35W*, 3" SMO reflector, *103,500 cp* (measured by shinetop, 3 meters)
--*Fire-Foxes 1*(火狐2009), 2.6" SMO, Peeled naked bulb, *148,500* cp (measured by shinetop, 3 meters)


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## subiya (Sep 14, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

Thanks Ma sha1 (doesn't anyone around here use names?)
Comparing the HID to the TK35 I'd guess the light is underperforming rather than being read low.
Still waiting for my new light to arive. (sigh)
Cheers
Glen


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## subiya (Sep 14, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

At last.
it's arrived.
First impressions, made in about 10 seconds only.
Love the build. Feels solid and looks the part.
Turning it on and pointing at a wall 6 meters away. Definitely brighter than 35w HID and eats the TK35. (Wow this writing a review is easy lol)(The TK35 is still my pride and joy, tiny and potent.)
So give me some time to try and be a bit more professional and I'll put up some pics of the torches and how I feel.
Please note, I'm after a torch to do a specific function from a boat, and checking the boat on it's mooring from the beach.
To that end I'm not overly concerned that it's the brightest, and I don't need or want a lazer type needle point throw, more of a healthy spread to see what I'm cruising into.
I want a reliable light with a healthy throw.
So my wish list may be a little different to others.
“Does it fulfill its’ purpose for the money spent.”
And will me mates be jealous.
Cheers
Glen


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## subiya (Sep 15, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*



















































To many pictures?
The little TK35 is the charmer. The middle torch it turns out is a xeccon SSK-10T which has already been well documented in CPF now I know what it’s called. 35,45,65W and the clear winner.
The big lug on the end is the first 35W HID I got and as you can see, big and underperforming me thinks. Might end up for sale or at the batch as an emergency light or upgraded to 65 watt just for fun. Would have thought it great if I didn't have the other two.
I’ll get up some over water picks when I get to the batch again. Was going to be this weekend but as you may see in the picks it’s blowing and raining here so might leave it for another weekend.
Cheers
Glen


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## [email protected] (Sep 15, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

Great pictures Glen and it serves your purpose well. Enjoy your new 65w HID mate!


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## subiya (Sep 15, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

Thanks, as it was wet, cold and miserable I just guessed the focus and banged out the pictures as quick as poss. Consequently the focus isn't set properly.

As an aside, when I was out the other night experimenting with the camera before the new torch arrived I came home annoyed that I couldn't see the settings on the camera.
As I sat down it suddenly occurred to me I was playing with two of the brightest torches I've ever seen in my life and "I couldn't see the settings on the camera?" How dumb was I??:sick2:


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 15, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*



subiya said:


> the first 35W HID I got and as you can see, big and underperforming me thinks. Might end up for sale or at the batch as an emergency light or upgraded to 65 watt just for fun.


 
I didn't realize that your 35W HID has ~6" reflector, so I listed bunch of 3" reflector HIDs.
Your 35W HID is way under performing. here are a list of HIDs with 6" reflector,
its worth ugrading. Even swap out the ballast & bulb to ebay 35W should give you 400K unless the reflector is really bad.

*Regular Power HIDs (30/35W)
**35W HID
*...*POB HID, 6" Reflector* >*400,000 cp* , ebay 4300K lamp (measured by Petrev)
...*Mozo Mega* *HID*, *6" Reflector* *430,000 cp*, stock 6000K lamp (Measured by Ma_sha1)
* High Power HIDs
**
Mozo Mega* *HID*,* 75W Mod,* *6" Reflector*, *Philips 4300K lamp 1.7 *million cps, (Measured by Ma_sha1)*
Sanmak SM5200*, *100W Mod, 6" reflector, 6000K bulb, ~1.25 million cps.* (by 2100/12.5M/Dx meter)
*Sanmak SM5200*, *100W Mod, 6" reflector, 3400K bulb**, ~1.35 million cps.* (by 2100/12.5M/Dx meter)


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## Fusion_m8 (Sep 16, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

If you're technically proficient or knows someone who is, you should swap the SSK-10T's bulb and ballast into the 6" 35w HID, then you would have a 65w HID light with a 6" reflector, IMAGINE THE THROW!!! :devil::devil:


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## subiya (Sep 18, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

Well I did get down to the beach this weekend. Had a cracker of a time with my daughter racing rc cars. Here are a few over the water pics. Only time it rained was when I went out to take the pictures. 
The trees on the far side are 300yd’s away.

In the last picture the two boats in the immediate foreground are 450 yards away. The boats in the spill of the light are just over 600 yards away. 
As a light giving a practical spread of beam this thing rocks!
























"If you're technically proficient or knows someone who is, you should swap the SSK-10T's bulb and ballast into the 6" 35w HID, then you would have a 65w HID light with a 6" reflector, IMAGINE THE THROW!!! :devil::devil: "

Yes it has to be done. Only because I’m one of those compulsive people that can’t have underperforming or broken toys around. “Fix it or ditch it”. I'll buy a ballast though. Not pulling this SSK apart. it's too cool.
However that raises a few questions which I don’t understand the answers to. The main being 1) will a 60W bulb fit, Seems there are different kinds? 2) Will a slim line 60W ballast generate to much heat? 3) Are there good and bad ballasts. Any suggestions of a slim line ballast to use?
options are pretty much nonexistent in NZ. And stupidly expensive. 
Cheers
Glen


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## subiya (Sep 18, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

Amazing the difference using a torch over water,
Both the above sets of photo's were taken on the same camera settings over similar distances with a tripod. Tv 1.3, Av 4.0, ISO 400 35mm yet the water shots appear much brighter.


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## subiya (Sep 18, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

Sorry about the number of self posts but I'd like to get this sorted and info in New Zealand is as scarce as hens teeth.
This is the unit I'd like to replace and I realize you can't post about non sponsoring companies so I don't know what the normal protocol is. This is the unit I'd like to replace in the 35 what light. I might as well go 65W rather than 35 again. Any suggestions?




















Well I've worked out it's an H4 bulb. learning learning. Can get 35W locally but struggling to find 55 or 65W ballasts.
Cheers

Glen


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 19, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

The frosted bulb is the problem, even a generic ebay 35w 4300K bulb alone will make good improvements.
You can Run 35bulb using 55W ebay ballast. 35W ballast is rated by out-put power, 55W ballast is rated by 
input power, usually output only about 42W.


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## subiya (Sep 20, 2011)

*A very dissapointing day*

Well I decided to try swapping out the bulb for a clear one. Very disappointing result. As you can see the pattern was completely changed and there was only a 4% increase in cp. Went from 94500cp to 98000cp, incidentally the 65W torch came up at 174400cp. Don't put any faith in my readings though, I'm just sticking a meter in the brightest part of the beam. (10m)
So the picks below are the new bulb, which I've taken back out, followed by the old bulb. Then the 65W. Don't compare brightness as the camera was on AUTO.

New bulb













old bulb.











xeccon 65w










However I think it's time to give up on this torch and just use in the boat, it does have a couple of redeeming features, One it won't 
get me thrown out of a mariner, 2 it has a cigarette type power outlet in the back and last it has a pretty cool led light on the side for general use. Plus it's so big & heavy I could use it as a sea anchor.





















The 65W,45W,35W xeccon SSK-10T is great and something I'll play with quite happily. Good looking, well made, plenty bright and user friendly. 
Cheers
Glen


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## Fusion_m8 (Sep 24, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

Nitro or brushless off road? Not trying to hi-jack the thread but I needed advice about the HSP brand of 1/8 off road RTR kits. Will send you a PM regarding this sometime.



subiya said:


> Well I did get down to the beach this weekend. Had a cracker of a time with my daughter racing rc cars.
> Glen


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## subiya (Sep 24, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*



Fusion_m8 said:


> Nitro or brushless off road? Not trying to hi-jack the thread but I needed advice about the HSP brand of 1/8 off road RTR kits. Will send you a PM regarding this sometime.


 
No worries about this thread, I'll get back to it when I get a “good" light meter but I have the torch and couldn't be happier. I even wandered around with last night it to see how hot it would get and frankly it didn’t.
Quick note re cars. I have a 1/8 Losi LST2 Nitro which is great and I bought her a 1/8 Inferno VE Race spec which is electric. I had to swap radios and put the Futaba PK4 onto her car as it's so quick and powerful it had to be tamed. Car vastly outperformed the supplied radio. Now it’s beating all the budget nitro’s at the track. Seems more stable.
Funnily enough I'm looking to get a 1/8 HSP electric buggy to take with her as the nitro is a bit noisy. Seems they are good value for money but as cheap cars you get what you pay for. 
Cheers
Glen


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## subiya (Sep 27, 2011)

*Re: TK35 and 35W HID v 65W HID comparison*

OK, last post regarding this light unless challenged. Perhaps those who have taken lux readings before might comment.
I've purchased a new digitech LUX meter and taken five carefull readings.
First the cheap 35W hid 934lux -*93400 cp* at *10 meters* BUT 1460lux -*13140 cp* measured at *3 meters*. Why such a 30% diff?
wear as the 35, 45, 65W Xeccon 1661 lux *166100 cp* at *10 meters* BUT 17840lux -*160560cp* at *3 meters*. 4% diff-good result.
And finally the 65W set on 35W 84300cp at 10 meters. about right against a 6" 35W hid.
It would be interesting to see two people measure one single light.

Be interested in any comments.
Cheers
Glen


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