# Differences in American and European cars



## cheapo (Sep 27, 2005)

What are the differences in American and European cars? I have to write a paper on this topic... thanks.

-David


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## IsaacHayes (Sep 27, 2005)

From what I know (may not be accurate) Eruopean cars are smaller becaue they have small streets and high gas prices. Not many SUVs. The higher class cars are mostly RWD, and american cars are just now starting to go back to RWD. The paints used on cars like BMW is water based as they have higher air polution standards. Now I think the new BMW's have powder coated paint not sure though.


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## K-T (Sep 27, 2005)

BMW's are not powdercoated.  They are painted like any other car.


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## IsaacHayes (Sep 27, 2005)

I heard the paint was baked on now. Not really powder coat but cooked or so. I've heard that about harley gas tanks too. :shrug:


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## Saaby (Sep 27, 2005)

European cars have different safety standards. We require dual airbags, they require headlight washers. We have long commutes here, so American cars have good cup holders. Europeans don't understand why you would want a beverage in your car. American cars tend to have less maintence requirements, but aern't known for their longevity. European cars have higher maintence requirements, but as long as you keep putting money into them they just keep running. 

Bonus insignificant point:
Most European cars have a system to give you a warning light on the dash if any of your exterior bulbs are burnt out. American cars just keep you guessing.

None of these are absolutes, of course.


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## VidPro (Sep 27, 2005)

dont forget the possibilities of different types of smog requirements when writing the paper. not between cars that are made in, but cars that are USED in, the different countries.
california especially for a time had different requirements, that meant a car you owned, in one country, could not be registered to drive in ca, till it met those requiremnts.

(wouldnt hurt to spell better than i do on the paper either )


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## Mags (Sep 27, 2005)

The steering wheels on the right in most european countries right?


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## Geologist (Sep 27, 2005)

OK I deal with American and European Spec cars on a pretty regular basis.

forget most of the previous comments and then remember them again. The differences are changing all the time. I once tried to ascertain the differences between an American and European Spec model car (the same model) - even the manufactuerer couldn't help.

However, here is what I know to be generally true:

European Cars:
At this time most European Cars are required to have more reflectors and better (general terms) lighting systems. THe European models have extra reflectors on the rear as I recall. I believe Dual Air Bags are required. I am not sure if it is a requirement yet, but ABS seems to be standard as well. The odometer is in Kilometers/Hour. The Air Pressure plate in the door soest not list PSI but metric (bar?). 

Contrary to popular belief, there are many SUVs in Europe. You don't see that monster crazy versions, but as expensive as gas is here (think closer to $6.00 a gallon currently) people still drive them. There are also a lot of TINY cars like the SMART Car and others (VW Lupo, etc) that get 60 mph. You see some electric cars in the larger cities.

All cars have locking gas caps that I've ever seen (at least growing up in the US this was not standard).

Gas mileage is measured by stating how many liters of gas is required to go 100km. So when people say they have a 5 liter car, they are talking about mileage not engine size!

Because Diesel fuel has always been less expensive (probably due to taxes), you see a lot of diesel cars on the road.

Most people have tires that are rated for higher speeds (here in Germany). It is not uncommon for everyone to be driving 90 mph or faster (I've seen motorbikes cruizing at ~140 mph, cars ~120) on the AUtobahn. The difference (in contrast to lets say Atlanta) is that it is not as chaotic, people tend to follow the rules, people pass on the left and use their turn signals.

Here in Germany, vehicle inspections are very intense, and due to this you don't see too many old junky cars (like mine) on the road.

American cars always have cool drink and coin holders. Many more items are options via standard, and the sticker price is before they tack on a bunch of mysterious charges (German cars the tag IS the total price).

Hope this helps!


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## Geologist (Sep 27, 2005)

Oh and only England and Malta have the incorrect (  ) steering wheel in European area (I think). Also, never seen a requirement for headlight washers.....

Oh and generally European cars have a towing point at the front of the car and the mirrors fold in (larger cars) to reduce width.


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## BIGIRON (Sep 27, 2005)

Man, this deserves a book, not just a paper.

I think the right side steering wheel is kind of a British phenomena. Maybe Australia.

I know the British Virgin Islands traffic is British style, but most of the vehicles are Asian with left steering. Makes passing a real adventure.


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## 270winchester (Sep 27, 2005)

The right-hand rule happens only in England and its territories(present or past) and of course, Japan...


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## Geologist (Sep 27, 2005)

also Thailand even though they were never a British colony or possesion


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## cheapo (Sep 27, 2005)

Geologist said:


> Oh and only England and Malta have the incorrect (  ) steering wheel in European area (I think). Also, never seen a requirement for headlight washers.....
> 
> Oh and generally European cars have a towing point at the front of the car and the mirrors fold in (larger cars) to reduce width.



Exactly... I actually went to malta on vacation... anyway, there are no light washer requirements at all. 

FACTS would be appreciated... remember, I am writing a paper on this.

-David


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## ikendu (Sep 27, 2005)

Geologist said:


> Because Diesel fuel has always been less expensive (probably due to taxes), you see a lot of diesel cars on the road.



It definitely is due to taxes.

Years ago, European countries decided that to reduce their dependency on imported oil, they would encourage the use of diesel engines (which, on average, get 30% better mileage ...my VW Golf Diesel gets 58% better mileage than the gas version). To do that, they changed the way that fuel is taxed. The bottom line is that gasoline is taxed at a higher rate than diesel fuel.

It worked.

40% of the new car market in Europe is diesels. Only 1% of the new cars in the U.S. are diesel (almost all VWs...plus a few Mercedes and the Jeep Liberty SUV in diesel). This has produced an additional benefit. Germany is now a world leader in renewable fuels. They use biodiesel; diesel fuel made from the rape seed plant (similar to the canola vegetable oil you can buy in stores). In fact, Germany uses 100 times per person the biodiesel that we use here in the U.S.

Regular vegetable oil is too thick to go thru the fuel injectors of a modern diesel. It is glycerin (like in hand soaps and shampoos) that makes it too thick. They remove the glycerin and chemically bond in about 22% alcohol and you've got a diesel fuel made from vegetable oil!


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## gadget_lover (Sep 27, 2005)

Geologist said:


> At this time most European Cars are required to have more reflectors and better (general terms) lighting systems. THe European models have extra reflectors on the rear as I recall.




Having owned several british cars and bikes, I have to imagine this is a backlash to some truely horrendous electrical systems. My Austin American needed reflectors for when the lights would dim due to a dodgey generator.

Then there was the Lucas wiring on the bikes. Yuck!

 Good memories!

Daniel


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## Saaby (Sep 27, 2005)

My mistake.

Headlight washers are required on all cars sold in *Sweden* -- not all of Europe.

All European cars equipped with HID lights, however, have to be self-leveling and have a washer system. There is no such requirement in the US (For self leveling. Not sure about washer).

Philips Page: To comply with European legal requirements Xenon light can only be fitted to your car in combination with an “automatic leveling device” and a headlamp whindshield clearning system”.

and from section 6.2.9 HERE

"Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No 45. (9)"

Lighting laws in the US and Europe are different. Some googling around with UDOT vs ESPEC european lighting standards, and you'll start to understand why HID glare is such a big problem in the US.


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## Big_Ed (Sep 27, 2005)

I don't know if this is a fact or not, but aren't there way fewer automatic transmissions on European cars when compared to American cars? I remember a few years ago there was a tv show about people learning to drive in England. Every one of the cars fetured were stick-shift. These people had a tough enough time lerning the rules of the road and how to merge, turn properly, etc., and now they have to also deal with learning the ins and outs of dealing with a clutch, shifting gears. No wonder some people had a tough time learning to drive. Give those people auto transmissions, and maybe they'd find learning to drive alot easier.


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## twentysixtwo (Sep 27, 2005)

Might be helpful to indicate what type of paper this is for and what level of detail you need as well as asking a more specific question. Are you looking for what TENDS to be different between US and EU vehicles, what is the difference in legal requirements, or what requirements tend to be mutually exclusive?

Local homologation requirements (EU pattern headlights, E-Marked glass, Breakaway mirrors, Pedestrian Protection, LATCH, CHMSL, Frontal offset vs FMVSS208, etc) are very different from local customer preferences (RHD/LHD, Headlamp washers, cupholders, MT/AT, Recirc, etc.

There are tons and tons of differences but it's pretty easy to summarize the main ones that somebody would notice, like repeater lights, rear fogs, and recovery hooks rather than emissions, drive by noise, hill holding, etc.

I'd be happy to help - I did export planning for a few years at Ford and know a little about the regulations and process.


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## twentysixtwo (Sep 27, 2005)

From what I understand, in UK there are two types of licenses. One that allows you to drive all cars and one that allows you to drive automatic transmission cars only.......


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## cobb (Sep 27, 2005)

Interesting thread. Almost gives me more questions than answers. I thought Europe taxed gas as a way to limit emissions to make folks buy small efficient cars and diesels. I was also of the understanding diesels were way worse at making nitrousoxides and particle exhaust than any gas car. Therefore, my understandin was that Europe has less strick emission and safety standards, so their cars were smaller and diesel powered giving more mpg than any American car as we had harder safety and emission standards. Kind of why the original VW Bug was still manufactured in Mexico up til y2k as they had less strick emissions and safety standards 

I dont want to cause any hard feelings, but it was my understand up to recently that the Germans made better made cars than America ever could. The Britts on the other hand with their MG and a few other cars were poorly made and or required more service. Not to mention electrical problems on a few early VW electrical systems and the Prince of Darkness who wired the early 80s Jaugars. 

Was rather fun watching the guy on top gear a few weeks ago on the discovery channel drive a diesel jaugar. I didnt know they made a diesel car. Of course when he shifted into 2nd gear at 110 mph it entered a fault mode and had to pull it over to reset it or something.


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## 357 (Sep 28, 2005)

1. Handling and sportiness.

Most standard American cars do not handle well.

The Euro cars (especially German brands of bmw, mercedes, VW) excel at handling and are designed to drive aggressively. Usually have a stiff suspension for improved handling, less emphasis on ride comfort (i.e. don't have a floaty caddy ride).


2. Quality


mercedes, bmw, VW, etc usually have much better fit and finish than American cars. Materials tend to be higher quality, and they are fit better



3. Safety Many euro cars have head airbags standard, last time I checked most American cars (especially the lower end models) do not.


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## RadarGreg (Sep 28, 2005)

There are very few absolutes in diffreences in American spec and European spec cars. I am an American living in Germany and drive two German cars built to American specs. (I'm with the US Forces here) The European cars must have a rear fog light on them. This is usually a single red light on the driver's side. It looks like you have your brakes on, but only the left side bulb lit up. This is used for foggy conditions when visibility is reduced. This feature is activated by a separate button on the dash, or as part of your headlight switch.

European cars also have different headlight standards. The beam pattern is different from Department of Transportation (DOT) standards in the US. It is generally a more desireable pattern and I believe it lights up the road more efficiently.

European cars with the HID Xenon bulbs must also be autoleveling. When you turn on your headlights, small motors in the light housing bring the bulbs up to a level condition. There are tilt sensors on the undercarriage of the car to tell the lamps what level is, so even if you are on an incline or have a trunk full of stuff, the lights will be level. This is designed to keep oncoming cars from being blinded by the superior brightness of the HID lamps.

These are about the only absolutes on the differences on US and Euro spec cars that I know of. I do know there is a difference in window glass and side impact protection, but can't say exactly what the differences are. I've also been told that French cars have yellow headlights installed, but that was so you could hate the French at night as well. 

I also forgot, American cars' turn signal lights turn on when your headlights are on. European cars do not have this "feature". It is easy to spot an American spec car in Europe at night; just look for the car with the yellow corner markers on.


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## Geologist (Sep 28, 2005)

Forgot about the rear fog lights. Now seeing a lot of French cars w/o the yellow lights. The yellow lights are an interesting concept if you read quickbeam's writeup about light and human eye sensitivity at this site....


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## rastaman (Sep 28, 2005)

Mags said:


> The steering wheels on the right in most european countries right?



How old are you?


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## rastaman (Sep 28, 2005)

Geologist said:


> Oh and only England and Malta have the incorrect (  ) steering wheel in European area (I think). Also, never seen a requirement for headlight washers.....
> 
> Oh and generally European cars have a towing point at the front of the car and the mirrors fold in (larger cars) to reduce width.



headlight washers were requiered on hid headlights. but dont know if washers are requiered in the present.


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## pedalinbob (Sep 28, 2005)

Geologist said:


> Forgot about the rear fog lights. Now seeing a lot of French cars w/o the yellow lights. The yellow lights are an interesting concept if you read quickbeam's writeup about light and human eye sensitivity at this site....



I recall reading somewhere that many (some?) Euro cars were required to have yellow turn signals. This makes a lot of sense to me, since it differentiates between the red brake lights and the signal (IF people actually use them!).

The yellow flashers seem more attention-grabbing.

Bob


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## rastaman (Sep 28, 2005)

all european cars have yellow turn signals.


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## twentysixtwo (Sep 28, 2005)

People have mentioned a lot of outdated regs (Amber headlights, headlight washers, etc) - most of these were eliminated over 10 years ago as part of the formation of the EU.

Most EU regs are not mutually exclusive to the US which means you can take a EU vehicle and sell it in the US with little or no modiifications. In general, the increased regs reflect a much higher level of safety and environmental consideration in Europe. This is understandable as the cities are much more congested, roads much narrower, etc. It's similar to how California has stricter emissions requirements.

In general, US regs are far less strict. Most of the US makers choose to hold to the US regs since this is less expensive, but means that it is a big pain to export US made vehicles to the EU. 

Example: E-Mark glass has to be certified to a certain temper meaning that the glass breaks into pieces of a minimum size when shattered (safer) This is more expensive since each batch has to be tested. It's legal to sell E-Mark glass in the US but not NON-E-Mark glass in EU.

This also applies to Repeater lights, amber turn signals, rear fogs, breakaway side mirrors, etc.


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## Geologist (Sep 28, 2005)

But the US has stricter regulations about the quainty and size of the drink holders....


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## dukeleto (Sep 28, 2005)

You've all forgotten looks:
american cars look awful :nana:
(errr, that was a joke of course!)
Cheers,
Olivier


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## Saaby (Sep 28, 2005)

Actually I think e-spec head lamps are more desirable, to each his own though.

European cars have rear fog lights on *both* sides of the car, but this is illegal in the US so they only put a bulb in on the driver's side. If you want rear fogs on both sides, however, it's generally as simple as punching out a plastic tab and putting in a bulb -- at least it was in both the European cars in my driveway


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## Ledean (Sep 28, 2005)

A lot of European cars are made in US. So do thay become American-European cars (whatever that means). Are they different from the same brand of cars made in Europe. 
Are any american cars made in Europe?


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## BB (Sep 28, 2005)

Some of the comparisons between regulations are difficult to make because of differences that are not directly related to specific regulations...

For example, recent regulations for automotive pollution controls on Euro Diesel cars have been stricter than US laws (PDF). But, overall, the actual fleet pollution differences between US and Europe mean that the US fleet has much lower pollution levels than the Euro fleet.

Because, in the US Diesel cars are only 1-2% of the cars sold here; whereas in Europe they are something like 38% of the market--and Diesel cars have something like (rough approximation) 30 times the emissions (link shows a rough range of 10-100x the pollution) of gas/petrol cars.

And in the US, regulations are not the same. California has had our own stricter regulations and Diesel cars have not been available here for years because no manufacturer has been able (or has chosen) to meet our requirements.

Now, both the US and Europe are recognizing the need to address Diesel emissions, both for cars and heavy truck and fixed engines.

Part of the reason for the head light differences are that the Euro lights cut off most of the light that points above road level. In the US, there is more light required to be above road level to better light overhead reflective (non-powered) road signs.

Also, laws change over time. I remember from 40+ years ago in the US that, as an example, front maker lights had to be white and you got a ticket if you drove with them on because, it was thought, that people would think you were farther away because of the dimmer lights. When markers were changed to yellow/orange, then it was against the law to have them on because the government thought that you would forget to turn on your headlights at night.

For other safety items, like air bags, there are tradeoffs.

In the US, air bag requirements are for a "passive restraint system" and usually can be met by air bags or automatic seat belts.

In general, manual 3 and 5 point seat belts win hands down in terms of both safety and cost benefit. For example, airbags only protect in the initial few hundred milliseconds in an impact and the forces in that impact are specifically in the axis of airbag deployment.

The bags cannot stay inflated longer because there are accidental deployments and the bags must clear in time to allow the driver to safely resume control of the vehicle. Airbags cannot protect if the car is involved in a multiple impact collision (roll over, multiple cars). Also, they can only protect in certain axis of impact (front air bags cannot protect in rear end / roll over accidents).

And, they are horrendously expensive to replace. An otherwise repairable vehicle can be totaled if all of those front/side/head airbags are deployed (at something like $1,000-$1,500 per bag and 5 or more in some cars).

Lastly, airbags are very dangerous to children and small framed adults in their deployment. There are multiple instances where airbags have resulted in death for the occupant of a car in an otherwise minor low speed accident. There is a tradeoff between speed of deployment, protection, risk of injury, and price.

Regarding quality differences between manufacturers--much of that is market driven. In the US, we still have "relatively" low taxes on the purchase of a car--so the amount of money spent in making a "quality" vehicle by a manufacturer shows up in the end price. We have the option of spending either $18,000 for a 4 door Honda or $30,000 for a 4 door Acura (Honda) and get differing levels of quality and equipment.

What would be the price for a 4 door Honda in Europe? Almost double? Quality costs do not affect the end price in Europe vs the US due to taxes... There is little market force to take an expensive car and make it extremely cheep when the price would only drop a little bit.

In the end, the regulations are sometimes difficult to compare without looking at their historical and societal roots. And, sometimes, different people just have different ideas on what constitutes a problem and a solution.

-Bill


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## mobile1 (Oct 1, 2005)

Here is the difference I notice when driving. IN the US driving a night drives me NUTS. There seems to be no regulation regarding lights, so I am getting constantly blinded. In Europe (or Switzerland where I mostly drive), driving at night is actually very comfortable. NO blinding at all!!! Also stores are not allowed to have lights out that blind you, also no animated signs aren allowed neither... all very good rules - which I later found out when driving in the US.
Then something else when driving in Germany - most US cars simply aren't built for speed (no matter what the Marketing claims) - when going faster handling sucks, noises everywhere, and it actually feels pretty scary etc... (of course I am sure that there are exceptions). Most US cars have a cheap feel to them - just the way the materials are chosen - cheap plastic (not even highend plastic). Also US cars I feel are often made for 500 pounders, with LOTS of room - I personally prefer smaller more snug cockpits... - but hey that's taste.


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## BB (Oct 1, 2005)

The US government actually has a law that prevents driver adjustible headlights... Under the theory that an idiot driver can not be trusted to adjust their own lights to account for vehicle loading, but can be trusted drive a 3,000 lb car at high speeds and on crowded streets with 0.079% blood alcohol level.

There are a few cars in the US that have (or had in the past) automatically adjusting headlamps. Automatic or manually adjusted headlights should be required.

"Loved" the car dealer, decades ago, that thought it was a bright idea to place a full size cycling traffic light head (red/yellow/green) in their corner show room window on the corner of a very busy signal controlled intersection. The next day it was gone... wonder why?

-Bill


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## raggie33 (Oct 1, 2005)

i rath.er walk then drive a eureopean car.its bad enough i drove a japanease car before


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## Goran (Oct 1, 2005)

I newer had a US car or been in the states but from what I hear they take more gas and tend to be bigger. Automatic is also more commune, isn't it? It is the opposite here, I've never used an automatic and don't like the idea at all...
Could we also consider a reason for smaller cars can also be that besides the gas thing the streets are often smaller? Especially in small old towns like where I live (started to develop in II-I century B.C.) where building and rebuilding things over time the infrastructure can get a little strange. Well it is OK here as most of the old town was done in the roman period in their „military“ functional way .. But even so you have enough narrow streets, not enough parking places etc.. Even more in some other places built in a more confusing way and often on a hill.. So a big car is a problem 
The best of course is to have something bigger for longer distances and a small town car. In summer time scooters are ideal...

I wouldn't agree about the not too many SUVs...

ABS, dual airbags, servos etc are standard; from the post it seems it's not the case in the US?

But there is another thing I see more on streets the last years, no one mentioned it and I don't know if it is just a local thing... It is the propane – butane fueled cars. It is less expensive, environment friendly and easy to install on any car. There are also some other gas types in use in other countries I believe..


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## BB (Oct 1, 2005)

Automatics have been improved over the years to the point where they get almost the same fuel mileage as a manual...

I prefer manual transmissions myself--however, there are good reasons for the automatics too:


On larger vehicles (like full size pickups) they can get better mileage. You can gear the truck with lower rear-end ratios with an automatic to get better mileage.
On icy roads, less likely to spin tires.
In racing, years ago (formula 1 was it...?), automatics were used because they shift faster (don't have to lose power during shift).
On pickups, they hold up pretty well.
Seen more than my fair share of burned out clutches by people that don’t know how to drive the steep hills in San Francisco, or driving in the hills (4-wheel driving) taking care of cattle and horses. 
 ABS brakes, in the US have not been associated with any reduction in accidents. ABS + Traction control is certainly nice. I have ABS on several vehicles, and none on another... I find it extremely unnerving to have to change habits between ABS and non-ABS cars... ABS you are supposed to mash down hard and hold the brakes and let the ABS control wheel lock. Non-ABS you just get lots of wheel smoke and noise--plus longer stopping distances (I am the one driving the 4 door Honda with all of the tire smoke when somebody cuts me off on highway 101 south of San Francisco). 

Airbags are not as good as using 3-5 point seat belts. Airbags have primarily been required in US cars for the folks that won't bother to wear manual seat belts. Airbags are extremely expensive to install and repair--and have killed people that otherwise would have been fine in accidents.

Not sure what you are talking about with "servos"... Are we talking about power brakes, power steering, Suspension control, or something else?

-Bill


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## Goran (Oct 2, 2005)

I'm not saying it is better, as I said I have no experience with US made cars.

I'm not sure I like the ABS either... a few times I had problems because of them like when driving behind someone at a moderate speed and being too close... it takes longer to stop completely and a few times I almost got the car in front of me. I would say that at low speed there is no difference, at a moderate speed I like it without the ABS better, but on higher speed ABS probably helps a lot... Jut an opinion though, especially not being able to compare them like you can as I was driving non ABS cars years ago and besides I'm not a big driver and the ABS does not come in normal circumstances so often... It is not often that one has to go down hard on the breaks at higher speed and if one is moderate on breaks and uses transmission to slow down ABS never gets in..

As for the manual vs. automatic... It's just that I'm used to that from the first day behind the wheel so.. it would be boring without 
Have some friends that like the autos but most people here would decide on manual..
Maybe after some time I would change my mind, actually can't say which is better when having no experience with automatic. Might it be also on account of smaller streets, and often more difficult terrain (more hills and the like) that automatics are not so popular?


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## BB (Oct 2, 2005)

I agree about the ABS... Going slow and trying to stop quickly (especially on slick / leaf covered streets) that ABS can easily make your stops longer.

Regarding auto-transmissions, they are actually much better for most people on steep roads (stop and go driving going up hill--no roll back); in heavy traffic being able to creep along at very slow speeds without all of the clutch work/wear; on icy/slick streets being able to place it in 2nd gear to limit wheel torque during starts (had friend with pickup and auto trans--we used to help take care of several thousand acres for horses/cattle sort of near the hills near San Francisco air port, he could drive that old pickup in places where others needed four wheel drive).

Used to be auto transmissions used a lot more fuel because of the torque converter (the old ones always slipped, even at highway cruising speeds). Now, with locking converters, the differences are much smaller.

In the US, now having a manual transmission can also stop thieves--there have been newspaper articles about those that cannot drive manual transmission cars and give up without stealing them.

First few times I drove an automatic when I was young (I drove manuals for ten years before I drove my first automatic)--I was stomping the floor with my left leg when stopping at traffic lights, pressing the missing clutch.

-Bill


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## Mark2 (Oct 2, 2005)

raggie33 said:


> i rath.er walk then drive a eureopean car.its bad enough i drove a japanease car before



Wow...


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## markbUK (Oct 2, 2005)

raggie33 said:


> i rath.er walk then drive a eureopean car.its bad enough i drove a japanease car before


 
I think you need to have a drive in my Caterham Seven to see what the difference is, mines running at about 205bhp at the moment, which is around 3.6 0-60 mph, no airbags, ABS, or traction control, air con or radio!

The Caterham site is here http://www.caterham.co.uk enjoy British motoring at its best

Mark


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## Goran (Oct 2, 2005)

BB said:


> Regarding auto-transmissions, they are actually much better for most people on steep roads (stop and go driving going up hill--no roll back); in heavy traffic being able to creep along at very slow speeds without all of the clutch work/wear; on icy/slick streets being able to place it in 2nd gear to limit wheel torque during starts (had friend with pickup and auto trans--we used to help take care of several thousand acres for horses/cattle sort of near the hills near San Francisco air port, he could drive that old pickup in places where others needed four wheel drive).
> 
> Used to be auto transmissions used a lot more fuel because of the torque converter (the old ones always slipped, even at highway cruising speeds). Now, with locking converters, the differences are much smaller.
> -Bill


That sounds interesting.. I'll have to try it when I get a chance...


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## cheapo (Oct 3, 2005)

The paper is due tomorrow... I desperately need suggestions. I have that they are similar in quality ratings (JD power). I also have that American cars have improved when it comes to crash tests, where as German cars have been safe for a longer time. I said that you can get alot of power without paying too much in America, when in Europe, horsepower costs more. However, European cars come standard with great interior quality. and in America, you have to pay extra for that kind of interior.

Thats all I got, so suggestions are strongly needed. FACTS PLEASE GUYS!!

-David


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## BB (Oct 3, 2005)

What is your thesis statement?

Are you trying to compare car values vs tax regimes, or pollution, or safety, or what?

For me, I always had more fun writing a paper (I hate writing papers) if I took a position that I did not believe in, then I tried to support that position. I did that with our local rapid transit system called “BART” in the San Francisco Bay Area—I believed in it very strongly but after I wrote a paper against it in the 11th grade (1973), I changed my mind (horribly expensive and wasteful of resources—as designed and operated—as most government projects are—I found out).

For you—Google (or any other search engine) will be your friend. Boy, you have it so much easier than “I did in my bad old days”…

I would suggest that you pick one narrow topic that is easy to find data for (such as pollution control levels have real numbers).

Topics such as quality are much more difficult to quantify, but sometimes they are much more fun to write about because of the politics and human behaviors behind the scenes that make for a more interesting paper.

As you will find out, companies like JD Powers are simply selling their names and reputations (JD Powers “awards” a trophy, and typically, a company must pay big bucks for the “rights” to pimp the award). The awards usually have very little to do with the end product.

For example, look up the Cadillac quality and Malcom Baldrige Awards and you will find:



> ...Later, in a question and answer session, the representative was queried about why Cadillac maintained that Lincoln was viewed as its main competitor, rather than the Japanese. His response confirmed my impression that I was listening to a representative of a company of the 1980s--not the 1990s. He said that Cadillac's own customer studies found that most often its customers choose either a Lincoln or a Cadillac; therefore, its main competitor was Lincoln, not the Japanese. Noting doubt on the faces of many of the attendees, he said that the reason it benchmarked itself against Lincoln, rather than Lexus, Acura, or other Japanese auto makers, was that "Lincoln made them look so good."
> 
> Because its primary objective was to win the Baldrige Award, benchmarking against Lincoln made Cadillac look outstanding. The representative admitted that Cadillac's quality was not on a par with the Japanese, but compared to Lincoln, it was doing very well. One still wonders how any company can claim top quality when it does not benchmark itself against the world's best, comparing itself instead to a firm that will help it look good before a quality committee. Cadillac won the Baldrige Award, but I doubted that it had the passion to win the world....



Anybody who was around in the late 1980's knew that Cadillac was going down hill fast in quality--the Japanese (and other domestic brands too) were eating their lunch. But they could "buy" an award to further their advertising.

Any way, start writing your paper on a topic... Don't wait for strangers to throw random facts at you. We are getting most of these facts from the same place you are: Google and the Web. And since you obviously have a computer—writing the paper is a cinch. The few posts I have made in this thread are probably longer, better researched and supported with “foot notes” than any paper I ever wrote in high school thirty+ years ago.

Good Luck,
-Bill


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## cobb (Oct 3, 2005)

When I do research I hit the college library unless you can access it from outside the campus and check the online encyclopedias and other recources like books. I also get a current copy of the MLAs for citing and do some surfing too. 

To tell you the truth, you just need to report on your sources and draw your conclusion. I doubt many would know if they are inaccurate or not. Look at this thread. Most profs are worried about you using the copy and paste method of writing. I would use the regulations mentioned here like the DOT vs German or Europe STDs for cars. Then maybe look at some magazines online for europe vs american cars like motor week, hot vw, etc. Maybe even access the internation version of webpages for gm, ford, chrysler, mercedes, etc, at least those in english.

Now if you want to copy and past your assignment, I think you are out of luck here. I charge at least a pepsi to a medium pizza for B papers when I attended college. I always went for food over money, just felt a tad cleaner. 

Turn off your flash lights, log off this site and start cracking. I bet you can do it in 3 hours. If you hurry up, maybe someone here can proof it when you are done? I wouldnt post it for fear of someone else stealing your work by the copy and paste method of writing, I would email it to someone.


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## cheapo (Oct 4, 2005)

I had to turn it in today.. I'll let you guys know how I did. Thanks alot guys for the ideas.

-David


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## SteveStephens (Apr 14, 2006)

markbUK said:


> I think you need to have a drive in my Caterham Seven to see what the difference is, mines running at about 205bhp at the moment, which is around 3.6 0-60 mph, no airbags, ABS, or traction control, air con or radio!
> 
> The Caterham site is here http://www.caterham.co.uk enjoy British motoring at its best
> 
> Mark


Well, that's not a typical European car. No top, heater, spare tire, doors, keyless entry, not much room and not at all practical. That's why I am building one; a Superlight with SVT Zetec 185 HP. Great cars! I know you do enjoy making do with very little except for the great fun it provides. I always wanted a race car for the street.

Steve


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## Navck (Apr 14, 2006)

Saaby said:


> European cars have different safety standards. We require dual airbags, they require headlight washers. We have long commutes here, so American cars have good cup holders. Europeans don't understand why you would want a beverage in your car. American cars tend to have less maintence requirements, but aern't known for their longevity. European cars have higher maintence requirements, but as long as you keep putting money into them they just keep running.
> 
> Bonus insignificant point:
> Most European cars have a system to give you a warning light on the dash if any of your exterior bulbs are burnt out. American cars just keep you guessing.
> ...



European cars are built like tanks, especially Saab and Volvo (Pre GM/Pre Ford). Mercedes/BMWs are also built like tanks.


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## alaskawolf (Apr 14, 2006)

BB said:


> Automatics have been improved over the years to the point where they get almost the same fuel mileage as a manual...
> 
> I prefer manual transmissions myself--however, there are good reasons for the automatics too:
> 
> ...




im going to have to disagree with you on that one, manuals are better for icy and snowy roads. theres far more control with a manual on icy roads. 


its still snowing here


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## scott.cr (Apr 15, 2006)

Differences... well get this, you probably never thought of it but when was the last time you saw a European hybrid car on the road? Never?

Hah, well that's because the Europeans don't know squat about hybrids, only diesel. The current BMW M5 (Euro only, not available in North America) has an optional diesel and it's a FAST car. So the Europeans are hanging their hats on clean diesel technology...... at this juncture might not be a bad idea considering the cost and lousy performance of hybrids.

If you've ever been to Europe you've probably noticed those half pint-sized diesel cars that everyone drives. I think the windshield wipers are powered from engine vibration in those things.

The Japanese are masters at hybrid technology... Americans have it down okay, but our sweethearts are alternative fuel cars. American made diesels are king in the international community, but Americans don't make anything smaller than, 5.8L, I think, for road use, so we're talking pure truck stuff here.

Also in Europe, aftermarket car parts have to be TUV legal. In the U.S. there are very few parts that require DOT legality. They take their cars, mechanics, driving and roads very seriously.


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## alaskawolf (Apr 15, 2006)

umm ok.

the M5 is Gas only it doesnt have a diesel option, the 5 series line has a diesel option in the 520D,525D and the 530D. europe doesnt have much of an interest in hybrids at the moment because they dont have a need for them

hybrids have good performance, hell the Hybrid Accord V6 and Lexus out perform or perform equal with their full gas counter parts and get better gas milage doing it.

many foreigen diesel companies in the trucking business are just as good as the american diesel vehicles.

in North america many aftermarket parts have to be 50 state carb legal in order to legally use them, half the parts on my cars are illegal


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## joecandlepower (Apr 15, 2006)

I apologize if someone has said this already, but I believe American cars are more reliable than European, and Japanese/Korean more reliable than American.
This was from Consumer Reports. You need to be a member to view this:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/reliability/reliability-trends-406/overview.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=4&searchTerm=car%20reliability


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## BB (Apr 15, 2006)

Just as an FYI for this thread:

To everyone who helped, thanks. I got an ....



cheapo said:


> For all that helped me to find facts on my American VS European cars comparison... thank you.
> 
> I got a nice 100%
> 
> ...



And, David may not be reading this thread as he gave up CPF up for lent back around March 8th, 2006.

Which, brings up the question--just how long is Lent??????

Which brings up the question if David's disappearance is connected with:

*I think I just found a grave in my yard...! {w/PICs}*

[font=&quot]Coincidence[/font]???? After 2,100+ posts? I think not.

-Bill


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## cheapo (Apr 16, 2006)

BB said:


> Just as an FYI for this thread:
> 
> To everyone who helped, thanks. I got an ....
> 
> ...



HA HA!! thats darn funny. Lent ended today. It was 40 days. I survived 

-David


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## cheapo (Apr 16, 2006)

I like american cars. American cars tend to kick some behind in terms of HORSEPOWER. My personal favorite car right now is the dodge Charger SRT-8.

-David


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## Rebus (Apr 17, 2006)

One general difference is that American cars tend to have less
high tec engines. We preferre the lower rpm, higher torque provided
by a pushrod engine. Not that we don't build DOHC engines, we try
to engineer for torque instead of high rpm horsepower.

-Rebus


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## alaskawolf (Apr 18, 2006)

cheapo said:


> I like american cars. American cars tend to kick some behind in terms of HORSEPOWER. My personal favorite car right now is the dodge Charger SRT-8.
> 
> -David


 
id like to get a charger SRT8 and drop an AMG V8 in it for more power. the German Horsepower war is getting crazy now days, talk about cars with Horsepower


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## my name is fake (Apr 18, 2006)

Having lived in both the US & EU and used cars in both continents, i generally prefer EU cars ( due to the smaller size).


Form wise, i think EU cars look better than American cars.


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## analogguy (Apr 18, 2006)

May I ask a question? What is an American car? Where final assembly plant is located? Where % of parts are from? Where profits go? GM probably assembles more cars out of the country than in. And of those cars built here, chances are that a majority of the parts were probably sourced out of the US. My Subaru was assembled in Indiana.


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## rastaman (Apr 18, 2006)

scott.cr said:


> Differences... well get this, you probably never thought of it but when was the last time you saw a European hybrid car on the road? Never?
> 
> Hah, well that's because the Europeans don't know squat about hybrids, only diesel. The current BMW M5 (Euro only, not available in North America) has an optional diesel and it's a FAST car. So the Europeans are hanging their hats on clean diesel technology...... at this juncture might not be a bad idea considering the cost and lousy performance of hybrids.
> 
> ...




hybrid cars are only good for stop and go traffic in the city. if you drive long distances and want to be fast, diesel outperforms every hybrid because of the gas engines hybrids use.

the hybrids should have diesel engines.

my 150 hp c-class diesel needs only 6,5 (sometimes 7) litre/100 kilometers. i drive 30% in the city and 70% on the autobahn with 160 (km/h) or more. a toyota hybrid would need more than 8 litre gas. 

diesel costs 1,10 €, gas costs 1,25 € (per litre).


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## 70mstang (Apr 29, 2006)

i've noticed a certain rash of a single problem out of all the european, and japanese automakers lately, i have yet to experience this problem once in an american auto. LEG ROOM. I like to take 6-7 hour long trips fairly often and without leg room these trips can be unbearable for me and my whole family, I like enough room to stretch my legs out far enough to lock my knees, and european and japanese car companies just don't offer this like the american companies do. this is an added bonus if you have enough room to stretch like that in the back seat as well, though few cars have masted this art.


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## robinspat (Feb 3, 2016)

K-T said:


> BMW's are not powdercoated.  They are painted like any other car.



Not sure you're right when you say 'like any other car' when it comes to BMW have a look at this blog that details process - Paint on a BMW is like armour plating  -- http://www.kunibmwblog.com/2010/01/bmw-manufacturing-paint-process/


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## 270winchester (Feb 4, 2016)

alaskawolf said:


> id like to get a charger SRT8 and drop an AMG V8 in it for more power. the German Horsepower war is getting crazy now days, talk about cars with Horsepower



If you got the technical know-how it might be fun, but frankly I am not envious anyone trying to transplant a modern AMG motor into a different car, they are hard enough to work on in cars they were designed to fit in the first place.


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## StarHalo (Feb 4, 2016)

Quite a necro-bump; the car industry is not entirely the same 11 years later, I'm not sure you could tell the difference between most American and European cars now..


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