# Knife Newbie Questions...



## rje58 (Dec 27, 2013)

I've been a flashaholic for quite a while, but just recently getting interested in knives, so please go easy on me.

For years I carried and used cheap generic knives. They'd fall apart or break down after a year or two and I'd go spend another $3 or $5 or whatever. My first knife that I spent more than $5 or $6 on is a Gerber Paraframe 1 that I bought about two years ago. It is head and shoulders better than the little cheapos I'd been using, but I know they aren't very highly regarded among knife afficionados. Still, it served the purpose for me for the past few years and has held up well.

So recently I've gotten more interested in knives and started reading up on them some and trying to learn about them. I decided to try a Boker Magnum.  Here are the specs: Overall length: 8 1/4" - Blade length: 3 3/8" - Weight: 6.8 oz. - Blade material: 440 -Handle material: Stainless steel / G-10. They go for about $15 or so. MSRP $23. My thinking was: this should be an upgrade to my Gerber Paraframe 1, and bigger as well. I wanted a bigger knife, as the Gerber Paraframe was the biggest pocket knife I owned.

Checking the Boker out after purchase, it comes reasonably sharp out of the box, but not as sharp as I expected it might. The reason for this post though is the side-to-side play in the blade. It has noticeably more side-to-side wiggle in the blade than the Gerber. This surprised me. So I pull out an old generic $3 pocketknife and check it, thinking, well AT LEAST the Boker will beat this old thing. SURPRISE! The freaking $3 knife has virtually NO side-to-side movement of the blade?!? It's got a cheap black plastic handle, for craps sake - looks practically like a toy. It's a chisel grind, it's so cheap. Yes, the Gerber has more side-to-side play than does the cheapo throwaway knife, too.

What am I missing here? I know the Boker Magnum is still a "budget knife", but I thought it would be on par with the Paraframe and head and shoulders above a $3 beater!

I have a Mora Robust fixed blade in the mail to me, as a "starter" fixed blade / outdoors knife. A good choice for the money?

Thanks in advance for any useful information!


----------



## Lampbeam (Dec 28, 2013)

Sounds like you got a good inexpensive knife. The Gerbers are nothing to write home to mom about. Queen makes excellent pocket knives for the money. They are better than Case in my opinion. I really like the dogleg (lost mine, so sad.) Bark River makes a fantastic fixed blade knife. As far as I'm concerned you can't beat Benchmade folders, but I would settle for a Kershaw any day of the week.


----------



## Marten (Dec 28, 2013)

Well, first off you need to decide what the blade is to be used for...
Cheapies are just fine for the most part for the usual everyday cutting requirements. Slitting sealed packets open, opening parcels, cutting twine, sharpening pencils and such like. You don't need a fancy knife with a high end blade for most of these "mundane" tasks.
It appears that you simply want something in a better class, rather than need the better quality. And nothing wrong with that. 
My suggestion is to rather wait, get more cash together and purchase a decent blade as opposed to getting stuff which is maybe only one or two steps above what you have.
There are many decent manufacturers. Possibly look at entry level knives from Cold Steel, Spyderco, Benchmade, Al Mar and such like. Actually, living in the States gives you so many options. Kershaw is certainly not be be sneezed at either. In fact, all my "skinning blades" are Kershaw and not the expensive models either. For daily carry I always opt for decent blades and designs and stick to the high end Spydies, Cold Steel and ZT. 
Remember though, different horses for different courses.


----------



## ctrashp (Dec 28, 2013)

I have owned hundreds , maybe a thousand knives , I still have around 100. If you want quality and features. (USA Made) Go To Ebay and Look at The Kershaw USA Blur Series . There's is a guy on there that sells blemished (Dropped or scuffed at the factory) For $40 Shipped. These are my daily carry. i currently have the Tanto Tip, and The Snap-on plain edge blade, This knife has excellent steel, Pocket Clip, assist open(opens with one hand), and is large enough to actually use it. Feels good in the pocket too. Hope this helps take, care, Ctrashp


----------



## rje58 (Dec 28, 2013)

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate your input, especially since I am trying to learn.

I appreciate the recommendations, and I will be checking out Queen, Case, Kershaw, Benchmade, Cold Steel, Spyderco, Al Mar folders and Bark River fixed blades.

Opinions on the Mora Companion MG Heavy Duty fixed blade? I have one in the mail to me that I paid $15 for.

And back to the Boker Magnum I bought. Is the side-to-side wobble reason of the blade reason for concern? It has more side-to-side wobble than the Paraframe, and the $3 beater with plastic handle is the only one of the three with virtually no noticeable side-to-side wobble! Am I looking at this all wrong? What should I be looking at to determine quality?


----------



## 8steve88 (Dec 29, 2013)

rje58 said:


> Opinions on the Mora Companion MG Heavy Duty fixed blade? I have one in the mail to me that I paid $15 for.
> 
> And back to the Boker Magnum I bought. Is the side-to-side wobble reason of the blade reason for concern? It has more side-to-side wobble than the Paraframe, and the $3 beater with plastic handle is the only one of the three with virtually no noticeable side-to-side wobble! Am I looking at this all wrong? What should I be looking at to determine quality?


Nothing wrong with the Mora Companion MG Heavy Duty, I prefer the Hultafors GK Heavy Duty but that's because they are cheap here in the U.K. 

The side to side play on a folding knife blade should be a worry, what model is it Magnum is a division of Boker set up to sell Chinese made knives, nothing at all wrong with that, but I'm wondering what model of Magnum it is.
The play in the blade can be reduced or eliminated by adjusting the pivot screw, for this you will probably need a Torx bit or driver of the right size but Magnum do use some proprietary headed pivot screws, it would be helpful to know which Magnum you have, a link to where you bought it (the webpage) would do.

Edit..... the Paraframe will need a Torx or Hex bit or driver, the pivot screw looks like it is in the middle of the pocket clip screws.


----------



## rje58 (Dec 29, 2013)

Thanks 8steve88! I am somewhat familiar with tightening the pivot screws on some knives, but I haven't figured out how to do it yet on the Boker/Magnum...? It seems to have an odd pivot screw with four holes on the edges?

EDIT TO UPDATE: I figured out how to tighten the pivot screw on the Boker Magnum with a pair of fine point snap ring pliers! Now the action is a little tighter to open/close, but it eliminated about 2/3 of the side-to-side play!

Thanks again everyone.

EDIT #2: Yesterday I found a Victorinox Nomad for what I thought was a great price, NIB, so I snagged it. The only odd thing is that is has a fully serrated blade. That almost caused me to pass on it, but I thought it might come in handy out in the woods, camping, backpacking, etc. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## 8steve88 (Dec 31, 2013)

rje58 said:


> Thanks again everyone.
> 
> EDIT #2: Yesterday I found a Victorinox Nomad for what I thought was a great price, NIB, so I snagged it. The only odd thing is that is has a fully serrated blade. That almost caused me to pass on it, but I thought it might come in handy out in the woods, camping, backpacking, etc. Any thoughts on this?



Personally I don't go for serrations but the Victorinox serrations are not as pointed and catchy as most. The shallow serrations like that work more by increasing the cutting edge - shortest distance between two points is a straight line and the curving of the serrations adds a good bit extra cutting edge - rather than try to rip through something using saw-toothed serrations. I think I could get along with those. 
I prefer a saw to cut crossgrain in wood. Try carrying both the Victorinox and the Magnum and see which is most use.
Welcome to the wonderful and varied world of knives, don't forget to bring your wallet.


----------



## rje58 (Dec 31, 2013)

The Magnum is big and heavy! If I keep it, it sure won't be an EDC! At this point I'm more inclined to sell it or trade it. It's a nice knife, it's just too big. What do you do with a folder that's too big to carry?

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk


----------



## 8steve88 (Jan 1, 2014)

rje58 said:


> The Magnum is big and heavy! If I keep it, it sure won't be an EDC! At this point I'm more inclined to sell it or trade it. It's a nice knife, it's just too big. What do you do with a folder that's too big to carry?
> 
> Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk




I'm not sure which model you are referring to, Magnum is the brand name for a whole range of knives made in China for Boker.


----------



## rje58 (Jan 1, 2014)

Sorry - it's an 01RY997. As you can see from the specs in my original post, it's big and heavy:

Overall length: 8 1/4" - Blade length: 3 3/8" - Weight: 6.8 oz.



8steve88 said:


> I'm not sure which model you are referring to, Magnum is the brand name for a whole range of knives made in China for Boker.


----------



## 8steve88 (Jan 2, 2014)

I see, that is big and heavy - it's a strong looking knife though.
I've been collecting Chinese made knives recently and I'm impressed enough to keep on collecting them. 
SanRenMu, Enlan/Bee, Harnds and Ganzo all are very good value for money and very well put together. If in doubt then YouTube can be informative.

You asked "What do you do with a folder that's too big to carry"? I'd put them in your car as an emergency tool, the 01RY997 has a belt cutter and glass breaker, check your local laws but in the U.S.A. but you stand more of a chance of being able to carry it than I do in the U.K.


----------



## rje58 (Jan 13, 2014)

Have you had any experience with Inron?



8steve88 said:


> SanRenMu, Enlan/Bee, Harnds and Ganzo all are very good value for money and very well put together. If in doubt then YouTube can be informative.


----------



## 8steve88 (Jan 13, 2014)

rje58 said:


> Have you had any experience with Inron?



Not personally but I gather that the quality control can be a bit off, like Navy knives, some are fine and some not so good. I don't ming spending the time and a few pence in phosphor bronze washers and cleaning/lubricating to get a knife A1 but you should not have to, I've never had a bad SanRenMu or Enlan and I have a lot. Harnds I've got two and Ganzo two, both Harnds and Ganzo I would have no problem recommending and Enlan and SanRenMu are top quality but I've never had an Inron, don't get me wrong they could be great and there's only so much can go wrong with a frame or linerlock, all adjustable. They look a bit like a Hinderer or Zero Tolerance design and for $20 they are a cheap look-alike but don't expect them to be as strong. 



Hard use by a Russian.

Personally I'd rather have an Enlan EL-01 but that's down to personal taste and use.


----------



## rje58 (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks for posting those videos! Very interesting stuff.

Have you ever seen anything like those "custom" serrations that guy added on the EL-01?



8steve88 said:


> Not personally but I gather that the quality control can be a bit off, like Navy knives, some are fine and some not so good. I don't ming spending the time and a few pence in phosphor bronze washers and cleaning/lubricating to get a knife A1 but you should not have to, I've never had a bad SanRenMu or Enlan and I have a lot. Harnds I've got two and Ganzo two, both Harnds and Ganzo I would have no problem recommending and Enlan and SanRenMu are top quality but I've never had an Inron, don't get me wrong they could be great and there's only so much can go wrong with a frame or linerlock, all adjustable. They look a bit like a Hinderer or Zero Tolerance design and for $20 they are a cheap look-alike but don't expect them to be as strong.


----------



## 8steve88 (Jan 25, 2014)

There's an Enlan series - the EL-03 knives, they come up on ebay and Amazon. The way the Chinese system of knifemaking works is that they make them in batches, if you miss the one you want then you have to wait in the possibility that they make another batch, I've been waiting for thw SanRenMu M1 to come around again for about a year.
This is the EL-03 series.
.






There's also a two bladed -one straight one serrated that I've not seen for a while.


----------



## ZNickey (Mar 2, 2014)

More than likely, the steel itself is partly a limitation on sharpness, compounded by how most factory edges just aren't very sharp and are extremely uneven (for cosmetic purposes...an edge of even length throughout the knives = an uneven angle), further compounded by lesser edge geometry meaning more force is required to cut. Many makers ship new knives with burrs which are not fully removed (stropping is often what is needed to give a factory edge the sharpness one desires.) But ultimately, it is nearly impossible to get an edge that is sharp as a new utility razor on lower end steels...and even if you get them sharp, the problem is that they deform very quickly and just do not hold that sharp edge. Going beyond that, even if the edge itself is brought to as sharp as possible, if the edge geometry is lesser, it will require more physical force to cut an object. This ultimately results in needing to sharpen the knife more frequently due to the additional force expediting the edge deformation (aka it dulls the knife faster).

If you aren't opposed to spending a few dollars, check out the Spyderco Delica/Endura line. While it's a bit of a jump in price over the Boker, it's night-and-day and it will last you decades. The VG-10 steel on the Spyderco is fantastic and will both take and hold a very fine edge. Over the knives you have now, you may find it holds its edge 5 times or longer (yet is easier to sharpen). You will never look back... (the 8CRV steel models Kershaw, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc. make are not bad, but the Delica/Endura is a better made knife, uses much better steel, has a better locking mechanism/ergonomics/pocket carry system/etc., and has farrrrrrr superior edge geometry).

As far as side-to-side play, many (possibly most) knives in that price class will have or develop it...especially if they are one-handed folders and lack a good blade stop design, have a heavy blade, have a handle with lesser structural rigidity, or/and utilize a certain liner lock. You can generally adjust the pivot, but over time parts are going to go out of spec and blade play will develop. The amount of play is what determines if your knife in within factory spec or defective.


----------



## ms grey (Mar 7, 2014)

+1 on the Spyderco Delica/Endura. They are well made, super sharp out of the box, not as difficult to sharpen as some other steels, holds a good edge, this list goes on and on. If you are close to the Smokey Mountains in Seiverville TN there is an awesome HUGE Knifeworks shop. You can try out almost any knife currently available. A knife that fits your grip well in addition to the other knife qualites will make for years of enjoyable use. Another option would be the Kershaw Leek or as already mentioned the Blur. All are good for EDC. Moras are an excellent choice for the money for an outdoor knife and the light weight makes it an easy carry. The Fallkniven f1 would be the next step up for that style. If you are very actively involved in hiking/camping take a look at full tang fixed blades such as the Esee 4 or 6 for your primary. It's more of an investment but worth every penny. They will last a lifetime and can hold up to very hard use. I do like the Bark River knives. They are beautiful but much more of an investment. It boils down to how you will use the knife, how much time you are able to spend maintaining it, and budget. Lots of great choices out there but the perfect one for you will be a balance of those three things.


----------



## Asura72 (Jul 23, 2014)

You shouldn't have significant blade play, even on a cheaper knife. That's a fault. It's one reason to always try and buy knifes in person, rather than from eBay as you can actually check it out in the shop. Cheap knives will generally have worse quality control than the higher end manufacturers and so more sub-par examples slip through to the retailers.

However, there are some excellent cheap folders out there. The Spyderco Delica has already been mentioned. But I wouldn't call it a budget knife. I'd say that's kinda average between budget and the higher spec alternatives. If you want something that's a little cheaper but still decent check out the following:

Kershaw Skyline
Spyderco Tenacious or Persistence
Byrd Meadowlark G10 (Byrd knives are China made by Spyderco)


----------



## 8steve88 (Jul 23, 2014)

Asura72 said:


> You shouldn't have significant blade play, even on a cheaper knife. That's a fault. It's one reason to always try and buy knifes in person, rather than from eBay as you can actually check it out in the shop. Cheap knives will generally have worse quality control than the higher end manufacturers and so more sub-par examples slip through to the retailers.
> 
> However, there are some excellent cheap folders out there. The Spyderco Delica has already been mentioned. But I wouldn't call it a budget knife. I'd say that's kinda average between budget and the higher spec alternatives. If you want something that's a little cheaper but still decent check out the following:
> 
> ...



So are the "Bug" range - Bug, Honeybee and Grasshopper. The Kiwi 3.The "Clipitools" with bottle opener, scissors or serrated blade as well as straight edge. The "budget" line, Ambitious, Persistence, Tenacious and Resilience. Bug Lapel pin. Travel cases. SpyderPacs. Sharpmaker rods. Add that lot to the Byrd range and you have quite a lot of the Spyderco catalogue made in China, I've got nothing against that at all, I have found that the China produced knives are excellent quality and give outstanding value for money.


----------



## P_A_S_1 (May 13, 2015)

Not wanting to start a new thread I'll ask here, would changing the edge profile on a knife from a 50/50 bevel to a single bevel (chisel) be a big no-no because of the spine taper? For example, say on a chefs knife the spine tapers 4 degrees from spine to edge on both sides, then the actual cutting edge is 15 degrees on both side (30 inclusive), and the idea is to 'erase' the edge on one side so the taper runs right to the cutting edge and decrease the cutting edge on the other side to say 10 degrees creating a new edge that's 90/10 (or something). Is this a creating profile that will be problematic or prone to poor performance? Most chisels I've seen are flat with no taper on one side however I've noticed some Japanese knives run profiles that are 99/1, 95/5. 90/10, 80/20, ect. (which is what I'm looking to due with a western style knife). Any opinions?


----------



## ForrestChump (May 13, 2015)

P_A_S_1 said:


> Not wanting to start a new thread I'll ask here, would changing the edge profile on a knife from a 50/50 bevel to a single bevel (chisel) be a big no-no because of the spine taper? For example, say on a chefs knife the spine tapers 4 degrees from spine to edge on both sides, then the actual cutting edge is 15 degrees on both side (30 inclusive), and the idea is to 'erase' the edge on one side so the taper runs right to the cutting edge and decrease the cutting edge on the other side to say 10 degrees creating a new edge that's 90/10 (or something). Is this a creating profile that will be problematic or prone to poor performance? Most chisels I've seen are flat with no taper on one side however I've noticed some Japanese knives run profiles that are 99/1, 95/5. 90/10, 80/20, ect. (which is what I'm looking to due with a western style knife). Any opinions?




Not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for, but this dude can make VG-10 perform like S30V, via angles......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSDFLgq4EDs

Im sure someone with more knowledge than I will jump in here.


----------



## G. Scott H. (May 14, 2015)

P A S 1, what you're describing sounds similar to one of the grinds used by Emerson on their knives. The primary grind is a traditional V, but there's only an edge bevel on one side. Essentially a hybrid V/chisel grind. It seems like it should work okay, but you might check in at one of the dedicated knife forums and talk to some Emerson fans to get their perspective (or perhaps an Emerson owner will chime in here). Just curious, is there a specific reason you want to go this way rather than just sharpening the existing edge bevels at a shallower angle?


----------



## P_A_S_1 (May 14, 2015)

G. Scott H. That's exactly what I'm thinking of, thanks, I'll check out a Emerson forum. As for why, I'm just looking into it, not sure if I'll actually do it. Pretty happy with the edges I get now, I do a shallow secondary a with micro bevel that's slightly higher and it works well but I was thinking of doing a little experimenting with an older knife. Thanks again.


----------



## G. Scott H. (May 15, 2015)

P_A_S_1 said:


> G. Scott H. That's exactly what I'm thinking of, thanks, I'll check out a Emerson forum. As for why, I'm just looking into it, not sure if I'll actually do it. Pretty happy with the edges I get now, I do a shallow secondary a with micro bevel that's slightly higher and it works well but I was thinking of doing a little experimenting with an older knife. Thanks again.



Nothing wrong with experimenting. That's a big part of the fun of any hobby, interest, whatever. :thumbsup:


----------



## Knivery (May 17, 2015)

I have several Emersons and think you should try that. _First go to the site though and research their grinds and the reasons they grind that way._ There are a lot of myths about chisel grind. Personally I like it and never had a problem with it.


----------



## MrJino (May 21, 2015)

You can visit a knife website and filter folding knives by price and look at all the cool different knives.
I don't know if I'm allowed to link, if you PM, i can list a few reputable knife sellers online.

I'm strange though, my knife costs almost 3 times as much as my Alpha ready made, which is an expensive flashlight...


----------



## PartyPete (Sep 5, 2015)

I owned a Gerber for a few years. I wanted to like it but the lock up was sloppy and there was too much blade play. It eventually failed, the lock is toast.

I don't really hear much praise for Gerber these days. Spyderco is safe bet. Tenacious for a budget, Paramilitary2 for excellence. 

Lots of good brands to consider.


----------



## Tom Krein (Oct 18, 2015)

I've seen several mentions of Queen Cutlery... I would recommend skipping them. they also make the Schatt and Morgan knives. Fit and finish is really hit/miss and management doesn't seem to care. If you are looking for a slip joint take a look at Great Eastern Cutlery or Swiss Army. Can't go wrong with either brand in my opinion!


----------

