# Recent LED Strip Comparisons?



## stevemayman

I have been researching LED strips. It seems they come in two varieties: cheap and expensive. I read a post on another site a while back where someone bought a bunch of comparable strips at a variety of price points and reached the conclusion that they were all identical (produced at the same factory anyhow) so buy the cheapest. Unfortunately he did not compare 5050s to 3528s nor did he include any of the "higher end" products such as the FlexFire Ultra Industrial series which claim 730 lumens per foot. My questions:


Has anybody done actual side-by-side comparisons of lights from various manufacturers (from Hitlights at $19 per reel to FlexFire at $335 per reel?)
Are manufacturers claims of output and efficiency generally reliable?
Is CRI info left off of strip light specs because it is horrible? Is bright white better than warm white?
I am trying to make some purchasing decisions and don't feel that I have enough verifiable information to make an informed choice. I many have to buy a few brands to compare but spending $350 on a spool of FlexFires just to experiment with seems a bit extreme!

Thanks!


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## RoGuE_StreaK

Don't know anything about the rest, but RE: CRI, CRI has only started to become a focal point for LEDs relatively recently, so unless the LED is tested specifically for it then the data wouldn't have existed. But yeah (very) generally speaking unless the company was focusing on higher CRI then the CRI is probably less than or around say 70?

As for "bright white better than warm white", it depends entirely on what your purpose and preference is. Generally, "cooler" white usually has a higher lumen rating, but for a lot of situations many people prefer a warmer white at the expense of some brightness.


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## jason 77

Actually I have been comparing light strips from various stores "mainly ebay stores" as well as the different "cool white, neutral white and warm white" strips. This is not being done in any "professional way" but it's just me comparing different strips to find one that has a nice warm white output around 3000K. 

So far I can say that I have not been able to find any strips using the 5050 package LEDs that have good warm white output, they are either too cool or way to yellow. I have found one decent semi warm white strip using 3528's but when I slapped it on an aluminum panel it was a little off, looked a lot better when I added a short strip of the too yellow 5050 strip I had. I have more strips on the way to play around with....

As far as the price difference, while only 1-2 online stores I have dealt with are not ebay stores they where still stores that had products coming from china. I can't tell the difference from the cheap ones and the more expensive ones they look like the same quality to me?

I have had a small strip of the 3528 warm white I found funning 24-7 for almost a month now to test the longevity of these strips, so far it still is bright as ever and all the LEDs are still lit up. This was one of the cheaper strips from an ebay store..


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## markr6

I just bought some 3528's on Amazon from LEDwholesalers. I put them under a workbench/cabinet in my garage with a LED switch. It looks GREAT! No more digging around in the dark to find whatever I'm looking for. They were the warm white 3100k and give off a great tint - not yellow, very bright!


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## alpg88

I used 5050 and 3528 strips in kitchens and closets, hallways..I used to glue them to wood, and latter to aluminum profiles. The result been the same, at 12v input they burn out within months, those on aluminum took longer, but all dimmed. And burned to the point where you could see the dots burned thru phosphorus layer, when they were off.

The only thing that helped is doubling amount of strip and lowering voltage to around 10. Even than I use them in places that get occasional use, like closets, and inside cabinets. They also work well when sawn onto a dog’s collar\harness,and fed by 6aaa. still bright enough to see dog at night from a far, but not too bright. 
After using around half a dozen of rolls in various applications, I came to conclusion, to use them only if it is no practical way to use anything else,and even than you need to consider their limitations.


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## idleprocess

alpg88 said:


> I used 5050 and 3528 strips in kitchens and closets, hallways..I used to glue them to wood, and latter to aluminum profiles. The result been the same, at 12v input they burn out within months, those on aluminum took longer, but all dimmed. And burned to the point where you could see the dots burned thru phosphorus layer, when they were off.
> 
> The only thing that helped is doubling amount of strip and lowering voltage to around 10. Even than I use them in places that get occasional use, like closets, and inside cabinets. They also work well when sawn onto a dog’s collar\harness,and fed by 6aaa. still bright enough to see dog at night from a far, but not too bright.
> After using around half a dozen of rolls in various applications, I came to conclusion, to use them only if it is no practical way to use anything else,and even than you need to consider their limitations.



Curious what the runtime was on yours until degradation? 

I did some 3528's I sourced locally from LED City taped directly to kitchen cabinet surfaces. They're looking like new after only tens of hours, although I generally only use them for minutes at a time. I was going to use up the rest of them in closets and utility spaces but never got around to it.

I also installed some 5050 RGB's in aluminum channels over the garage door as holiday lights - those have many tens of hours runtime without obvious degradation.


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## alpg88

i ran them long, some were on 24\7 others half a day at least, first month or two there was no noticeable change but later i could tell by eye they got dimmer, and from there they kept loosing brightness. in 6 moth or so they only had 1\3 or 1\4 of initial output, not measured, but what my eye saw. on 5050 strips even copper traces got darker, especially positive. here is a pic. you can see dark traces and 3 dots burnes in, the other piece is same one that has not been running long.


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## alpg88

when i said burned out i didn't mean burned to the point they did not work no more, they did but a much lower output. so if you use strip for not long, don't let them heat up much, than you might use them long time and be happy with them, but if you plan on running them continually , my advice try something else, they are not the best solution. unless you willing to change them, every several month. since they are not expensive, their not long lifespan might not be much of concern.


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## idleprocess

Interesting. I guess the thermal limits of the die and 5050 package are being exceeded. Seems that 3528's might do a little better since there's only one LED in each of those - although they may not have some of the thermal features of the 5050.

I was never as gung-ho on LED tape as some - seemed too cheap, never made by a name brand, and always sold by hobby- or second-tier resellers. What I've got is likely destined for low-frequency/low-duration uses ... under-cabinet lighting, utility closets for water heater/furnace, a rarely-used guest room closet, and some safes.


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## WeLight

alpg88 said:


> i ran them long, some were on 24\7 others half a day at least, first month or two there was no noticeable change but later i could tell by eye they got dimmer, and from there they kept loosing brightness. in 6 moth or so they only had 1\3 or 1\4 of initial output, not measured, but what my eye saw. on 5050 strips even copper traces got darker, especially positive. here is a pic. you can see dark traces and 3 dots burnes in, the other piece is same one that has not been running long.




The most obvious thing on your photo is the flux puddles forming on the solder joints of the leds. Only way that happens is extreme heat, u need way more heatsinking


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## WeLight

There are significantly more choices out there is the conclusion I have come too. The issue of cost is pretty straight forward, if it sounds cheap, it will be. You can buy strip now in HI CRI, single double triple row, 120,240,360 leds per metre and using 3528, 5050, 5630, 5710 and more. best thing with higher led count is closer pitch which means with diffusers on your extrusion you do away with the ugly led dot effect


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## alpg88

WeLight said:


> The most obvious thing on your photo is the flux puddles forming on the solder joints of the leds. Only way that happens is extreme heat, u need way more heatsinking



1 please quote so my posts don't look like yours. 2, you need to look more carefully at photo, those are not flux puddles, but darkened traces. the whole reason i post it, is to show heatsinking wont help, the choke point is flawed design.


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## jason 77

alpg88 said:


> those are not flux puddles, but darkened traces. the whole reason i post it, is to show heatsinking wont help, the choke point is flawed design.



Those look like the "water proof" kind covered with a silicon type product, the ones I have been messing around with are open to air flow. I wonder if the silicon is trapping the heat more than the non water proof kind?


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## stevemayman

Thanks for the input everyone. Based on these responses and additional research I have done I have reached the following conclusions:

Basic characteristics of a strip light are determined by the diode used (5050, 3528 etc. - see table below) and the spacing
There will be minor differences based on manufacturer (efficiency, color consistency, heat dissipation)
Some of the above may be due to better brands requiring better bins of same diodes
Generally most warm white diodes have a CRI of 75 while most cool white diodes have a CRI of about 80.
CRIs are available as high as 93 with some diodes, but the highest I have found for strips labeled "high CRI" are 85

Basic Diode Properties (from manufacturer specs - China price shown)

DiodeLumensLum/WattMax Lum/FT$/5MLED/5MLum-ft/$35283.6441302760079505012.6552403430011630149.268630240102043563025.6854701103007028339.31023407060080
Note: Per foot/reel numbers are for densest single-wide diode spacing as shown in LED/5M column

So, a glance at the table shows:

3528 are dim and inefficient but relatively inexpensive and tightly spaced
5050 produce the most light per $, but inefficient and broadly spaced
3014 produce the most light per foot, with very tight spacing and high cost
2833 most efficient at over 100 lumens/watt
5630 perhaps a good efficient upgrade from the 5050 in brightness and efficency

Does all that look about right?


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## idleprocess

stevemayman said:


> Thanks for the input everyone. Based on these responses and additional research I have done I have reached the following conclusions:
> 
> Basic characteristics of a strip light are determined by the diode used (5050, 3528 etc. - see table below) and the spacing
> There will be minor differences based on manufacturer (efficiency, color consistency, heat dissipation)
> Some of the above may be due to better brands requiring better bins of same diodes
> Generally most warm white diodes have a CRI of 75 while most cool white diodes have a CRI of about 80.
> CRIs are available as high as 93 with some diodes, but the highest I have found for strips labeled "high CRI" are 85
> 
> Basic Diode Properties (from manufacturer specs - China price shown)
> 
> DiodeLumensLum/WattMax Lum/FT$/5MLED/5MLum-ft/$35283.6441302760079505012.6552403430011630149.268630240102043563025.6854701103007028339.31023407060080
> 
> So, a glance at the table shows:
> 
> 3528 are dim and inefficient but relatively inexpensive and tightly spaced
> 5050 produce the most light per $, but inefficient and broadly spaced
> 3014 produce the most light per foot, with very tight spacing and high cost
> 2833 most efficient at over 100 lumens/watt
> 5630 perhaps a good efficient upgrade from the 5050 in brightness and efficency
> 
> Does all that look about right?



I'm familiar with 3528 and 5050 packages since I've experimented with LED tape utilizing them. Tapes with 3528 and 5050 packages are everywhere, often available in double-density for a price premium over standard density (one local vendor sells triple-density 3528 on a 3x width tape). From what I've seen, 3528's are single-die and 5050's are triple-die. Both seem to be limited to around 20mA per die.

As far as I know, the packages are fairly generic - short of whatever optical and power limitations they possess, the manufacturer can insert chips and phosphors of whatever quality they can produce/source.

The other packages look to be available in different densities to accommodate different voltages and up to whatever the limit is of the traces on the PCB (be it flexible tape, FR4, or traces on a MCPCB).

Doing some quick research, I'm seeing 3020 and 5630 on some rigid bars (presumably MCPCB) and a handful of 2833's and 3014's on flex tape. If the package dissipates much power at all, mounting it to MCPCB strip should extend its life if it has provisions for effective heatsinking. I believe that similar to 5050 and 3528 packages, efficiency is mostly going to be a function of die/phosphor quality.


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## DIWdiver

Your analysis looks very good for the samples you include. Unfortunately, the conclusions that can be drawn from it cannot be extrapolated to other strips using the same LED packages. It's possible to either put an efficient, inexpensive die in a 3528 package, and pack them tightly on the strip, or to put an inefficient, expensive die in the same package and space them widely on a strip. The results would be radically different, even though the package is the same. In other words, 'quality' cannot be determined by looking at the LED package type. 

Lumen maintenance, the opposite of the 'burn-out' described by alpg88, is definitely affected by temperature. But keeping the LEDs cool does NOT ensure good lumen maintenance. It only ensures it will be better than if the LEDs are allowed to run hot. I have a nite-lite that has a few 5mm white leds in it. They certainly run cool, but after a year (8760 hours) running almost 24/7, it was notably less bright, which means probably 50% maintenance. Good LEDs like Cree or Philips have 70% maintenance after 50,000 to 100,000 hours. Now, after 6 years (around 50,000 hours), it barely puts out any light at all. You can see the light, but it doesn't illuminate anything more the a foot or two away. That's probably less than 5% of the original output, or 5% lumen maintenance at 50,000 hours, where a good LED would be 70% at 50,000 hours.


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## stevemayman

I have no doubt that what you have said below is true, but what can we use to determine the performance or LED strips or otherwise make purchasing decisions? I was hoping that someone would share their first-hand experience with actual products. In lieu of actual experience I was comparing the manufacturers specifications for various packages and they were remarkably similar for a given package.

For example, for the (7) 3528 packages I looked at the stated lumens/diode only varied from 3.1 to 3.9 and the efficiency only varied from 39 to 48 lumens/watt. Much of this variation was due to color temperature. This seams to suggest that 3528 packages perform very similarly to each other. Is it possible that Cree has produced a 10 lumen/diode 150 lumen/watt 3528 diode in the lab? Sure, but you don't see a lot of them when shopping. You see chips that claim to produce about 3.5 lumens per diode and this is largely independent of price.

I went in expecting to see significant variations in output, efficiency, and lifespan based on the quality of the die but I just didn't find them. In fact the goal of my original post was to suss out such differences if they exist, but I have been hard pressed to find any significant variation in specs other than by package. If anybody has any examples of products that significantly outperform the package averages I would be very interested as I am looking for a product that performs well and am willing to pay a reasonable premium for it.

I didn't mean to come off as defensive, and I do appreciate you comments but perhaps I am seeing very similar specs because I am looking in the wrong places? I simply Googled phrases like "3528 LED strip" and clicked through to as many web sites as seemed reputable. Are there specific vendors out there that sell high quality/ high performance strips from name-brand manufacturers? It seems to me that the world of strips is a world of similarly performing generics...

Thanks!



DIWdiver said:


> Your analysis looks very good for the samples you include. Unfortunately, the conclusions that can be drawn from it cannot be extrapolated to other strips using the same LED packages. It's possible to either put an efficient, inexpensive die in a 3528 package, and pack them tightly on the strip, or to put an inefficient, expensive die in the same package and space them widely on a strip. The results would be radically different, even though the package is the same. In other words, 'quality' cannot be determined by looking at the LED package type.


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## DIWdiver

I wonder if maybe all the leds in a particular package come from the same manufacturer. Each mfr has their own package, and that explains why all samples of a particular package look similar? I wouldn't have thought that was the case, but maybe it is. That's why it's great to have people with different biases talking - my bias would never have lead me down the path to discover this.


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## stevemayman

That is my theory. My guess is that all the diodes in the strips <$50 come either from one or two similar generic immitators racing to the bottom or that they come from the same or similar "reject" (or at least less desirable) bins from a name manufacturer that won't put their name on it. The big boys have probably all moved on to more lucrative markets.

The only branded diodes I saw were several strips that claimed samsung LEDs in a high CRI 5630 package.



DIWdiver said:


> I wonder if maybe all the leds in a particular package come from the same manufacturer. Each mfr has their own package, and that explains why all samples of a particular package look similar?


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## idleprocess

stevemayman said:


> That is my theory. My guess is that all the diodes in the strips <$50 come either from one or two similar generic immitators racing to the bottom or that they come from the same or similar "reject" (or at least less desirable) bins from a name manufacturer that won't put their name on it. The big boys have probably all moved on to more lucrative markets.
> 
> The only branded diodes I saw were several strips that claimed samsung LEDs in a high CRI 5630 package.



There's also the possibility that the strip manufacturers are simply regurgitating the spec sheets from the LED supplier, which may simply be doing a back-of-the-napkin calculation based on spec sheets from their LED die and phosphor manufacturers. You'll notice that the only name brand on the flex strips seems to be 3M (who supplied the adhesive tape), and they're generally sold from hobbyist / small-scale supply houses, who make little if any mention of where the tape comes from ... ripe for a little inflation or unthinking copypasta of data from the upstream step in the chain. 

I suspect the motivation for high quality is fundamentally low. The tape suppliers likely change their public face all the time by changing sales agents. The resellers likely deal with quality claims through replacement stock out of their no-doubt appreciable margins or byzantine RMA procedures that discourage returns. Customers probably use them in lower-demand locations and perhaps have a natural tendency to use enough LED's that significant lumen depreciation is not all that noticeable.

My only quibble with your table were with your "Max Lum/FT", "$/5M", "LED/5M", and "Lum-ft/$" calculations, as those are not specific to the diode type with 1x, 2x, 3x, and 4x densities available in many of those LED types (especially 3528's). If you're comparing whatever passes for "standard density", then my quibble pretty much vanishes.


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## stevemayman

Agree. Probably producing low quality and claiming the specs of what they are imitating...



idleprocess said:


> There's also the possibility that the strip manufacturers are simply regurgitating the spec sheets from the LED supplier, which may simply be doing a back-of-the-napkin calculation based on spec sheets from their LED die and phosphor manufacturers.



Fair point. I should have included more info on what I was comparing! Although I looked at all densities I was only comparing the densest single-wide loading for each package. That was 120 diodes/meter for 3528s, 60 diodes/meter for 5050s, 204(!) diodes/meter for 3014s etc.



idleprocess said:


> My only quibble with your table were with your "Max Lum/FT", "$/5M", "LED/5M", and "Lum-ft/$" calculations, as those are not specific to the diode type with 1x, 2x, 3x, and 4x densities available in many of those LED types (especially 3528's). If you're comparing whatever passes for "standard density", then my quibble pretty much vanishes.


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## bshanahan14rulz

Those burned LEDs, could it be to run them in clean air for a while to clear them up?


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## SemiMan

jason 77 said:


> Those look like the "water proof" kind covered with a silicon type product, the ones I have been messing around with are open to air flow. I wonder if the silicon is trapping the heat more than the non water proof kind?



Almost definitely, but then it is a matter of picking your failure point. Silicon protects the LEDs and board.

Semiman


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## SemiMan

DIWdiver said:


> Your analysis looks very good for the samples you include. Unfortunately, the conclusions that can be drawn from it cannot be extrapolated to other strips using the same LED packages. It's possible to either put an efficient, inexpensive die in a 3528 package, and pack them tightly on the strip, or to put an inefficient, expensive die in the same package and space them widely on a strip. The results would be radically different, even though the package is the same. In other words, 'quality' cannot be determined by looking at the LED package type.
> 
> Lumen maintenance, the opposite of the 'burn-out' described by alpg88, is definitely affected by temperature. But keeping the LEDs cool does NOT ensure good lumen maintenance. It only ensures it will be better than if the LEDs are allowed to run hot. I have a nite-lite that has a few 5mm white leds in it. They certainly run cool, but after a year (8760 hours) running almost 24/7, it was notably less bright, which means probably 50% maintenance. Good LEDs like Cree or Philips have 70% maintenance after 50,000 to 100,000 hours. Now, after 6 years (around 50,000 hours), it barely puts out any light at all. You can see the light, but it doesn't illuminate anything more the a foot or two away. That's probably less than 5% of the original output, or 5% lumen maintenance at 50,000 hours, where a good LED would be 70% at 50,000 hours.



That is epoxy/phosphor interface yellowing and a known issue with most 5mm white LEDs.

Semiman


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## stevemayman

I wonder if that is something that industry-leading manufacturers would have solved by now? Perhaps the expensive diodes would no longer have this problem?



SemiMan said:


> That is epoxy/phosphor interface yellowing and a known issue with most 5mm white LEDs.
> 
> Semiman


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## SemiMan

stevemayman said:


> I wonder if that is something that industry-leading manufacturers would have solved by now? Perhaps the expensive diodes would no longer have this problem?



Most long life LEDs are silicone encapsulated not epoxy. Some 5mm will do long life with special construction.

Semiman

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## lovemyleds

I can tell you from my own experience... I'm very happy with my 5m 5050 led strips. On my 5th reel of 5m. I buy nothing but 60 leds to the metre. I don't think you can get more leds to a metre than that. As far as colour goes... I do think around copper white is the brightest, though considering leds are sharper on the eye, I make an effort to reduce this buy getting warm white. It's not as bright, but not as sharp and gives off plenty of light. I don't pay more than 17$ AUS per 5m reel. Haven't had a single led go on me yet! And I don't even have them running through a 12v regulator. Good luck!


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## SemiMan

How many 10's of thousands of hours have you been running them?

Semiman

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## alpg88

you don't need thousands of hours, in 2 months of none stop use at 12v even glued to aluminum profile, will dim the leds to 1\4 of initial brightness, i have seen it happened many times, never seen it not to happen actually.


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## bshanahan14rulz

Do both encapsulated and non-encapsulated LED strips dim to 1/4 brightness in 2 months, or do the non-encapsulated ones last longer? Could it simply be the encapsulant is just discoloring due to contamination and heat? Or perhaps the encapsulant isn't compatible with the actual LEDs' silicon fill?


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## alpg88

i used only waterproof ones.


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## SemiMan

Take your pick. Poor led quality, incompatible or yellowing encapsulation, overdriven LEDs ... All can contribute. 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## bshanahan14rulz

Alright, so the bottom line is that there is no such thing as a well-made LED strip.

Anybody ever found some blank LED strips? i.e. unpopulated ones that we could put our own LEDs on?


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## SemiMan

No there of course are good ones, picking them is hard.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## alpg88

there are good led strips, but they are not flexible, and cost a lot more. i never personally used them, but they look like they have everything other strips miss, like good heatsinking, and good leds (rebel or cree) leds, and abuility to use optics. google *9008 LuxStrip II™*


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## WeLight

one observation, you have your CRI numbers back to front, cool is more likely 65-70cri and warm is typically higher


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## LEDealer

WeLight said:


> one observation, you have your CRI numbers back to front, cool is more likely 65-70cri and warm is typically higher



+1

In general, you can find the highest CRI parts from most manufacturers in the 2700-3000K range (90 and above), 80 CRI usually is available up to 4500-5000K, and 70 CRI is between 2700-6500K and above. For these cheap LEDs on strips, I'm pretty sure that they're below 60 CRI if nothing is indicated. Midpower products are definitely available with high CRI for a dime for larger manufacturers, so it is a design choice by these strip manufacturers to not go with better LEDs. I think what you'll see is big boys like Cree, Nichia, LumiLEDs, and Osram coming out with their own "premium" strips so they can capture some of the value of putting LEDs on a strip, which seems like a fairly simple thing to do (once the design is nailed down).

In addition, the CRI tends to go up with temperature, so if a product is measured at 25C and is a 70 CRI minimum, it could be a 72 CRI minimum product at 85C or 100C...


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## idleprocess

I think a lot of this is due to the niche/hobbyist nature of the product with its associated low volumes. The lighting industry would likely categorize these as "under-cabinet lighting" - a pretty narrow segment of the market. Whenever some enterprising soul packages up and adds connectors to these things, the price multiplies several times.

There seem to be 2 pricing tiers for flexible low-power tape: *dirt-cheap* and *scalper*, without a meaningful performance distinction between either. There seem to be no name brand tapes, and - unless you pay the scalper price - they are not sold by anything resembling a name-brand distributor. Most sites site that sell them remind me of an ebay store - hype layered upon hype with confusing layouts, inconsistent parameters, specifications that don't always add up, and otherwise only inspire me to pay as little as possible and watch my six afterwards - _even the local place!_

Conversely, the mid- and high-power rigid strips seem to typically be priced quite high, although they at least offer more meaningful performance differences.


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## LEDealer

idleprocess said:


> There seem to be no name brand tapes, and - unless you pay the scalper price - they are not sold by anything resembling a name-brand distributor.



I think the market is moving in this direction and you will indeed see name brand tapes soon. Why wouldn't these big names in LEDs want a piece of that pie that they can bake from all of the low hanging fruit out there?


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## idleprocess

LEDealer said:


> I think the market is moving in this direction and you will indeed see name brand tapes soon. Why wouldn't these big names in LEDs want a piece of that pie that they can bake from all of the low hanging fruit out there?



Is there sufficient volume to make it worth their while? 

Can they make a profit making it for a price that people will pay? Or will fleabay and amazon continue to encourage pricing too low for anyone but the cheapest producers to make narrow margins?


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## stevethumb21

stevemayman said:


> I have been researching LED strips. It seems they come in two varieties: cheap and expensive. I read a post on another site a while back where someone bought a bunch of comparable strips at a variety of price points and reached the conclusion that they were all identical (produced at the same factory anyhow) so buy the cheapest. Unfortunately he did not compare 5050s to 3528s nor did he include any of the "higher end" products such as the FlexFire Ultra Industrial series which claim 730 lumens per foot. My questions:
> 
> 
> Has anybody done actual side-by-side comparisons of lights from various manufacturers (from Hitlights at $19 per reel to FlexFire at $335 per reel?)
> Are manufacturers claims of output and efficiency generally reliable?
> Is CRI info left off of strip light specs because it is horrible? Is bright white better than warm white?
> I am trying to make some purchasing decisions and don't feel that I have enough verifiable information to make an informed choice. I many have to buy a few brands to compare but spending $350 on a spool of FlexFires just to experiment with seems a bit extreme!
> 
> Thanks!




Hi Steve !

I believe 3528 flexible strip is the best choice. I have used it myself. It is very bright and has low consumption. It comes with peel and stick feature. You can search for dimmable options also if you want. normally these are waterproof and easy to maintain. White LED has more brightness for sure as compared to warm white, but again your need dominates here.


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## alpg88

usbuyer said:


> The only thing that helped is doubling amount of strip and lowering voltage to around 10. Even than I use them in places that get occasional use, like closets, and inside cabinets.


really???? copying and pasting my post from page 1. what are you a spammer getting post count up? 

otoh might just be a bot.


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## Solid Apollo

OK so I am a newbie here and I want to make clear that I am not Spamming, although I work for an LED company. I just want to bring my 2 cents with out discussing brands or vendors, just my experience from what we see in the market.

*1. There are various kinds of quality of Dies and Encapsulations in the market*

When you buy SMD LEDs in bulk, prices of chips may vary 300% between a cheap brand and an expensive brand. What makes that difference? The dye and the chip itself. All LEDs that are in the range of whites (2200K-7000K) or beyond, are in reality Blue LEDs under the dye. The dye is made of phosphor and usually each manufacturer has its own formulation to get the best CCT and CRI. I personally have seen many factories in china, and how they encapsulate. Some companies have a room with the encapsulation machine in an open environment (Not Clean) and other have Super Clean rooms (like in the Chip processor industry). Contamination plays a big part here.

For example: In the market directly from factories, you may get a 3528 Strip with 60 SMD LEDs /Meter in a price range of $4-$24 (Buying in Bulk) . Why such a difference? Good quality LEDs usually are backed by LM79 and LM80 Aging Reports where the lifetime of the LEDs has been tested and are suitable for long term installations.

*2. ETL or UL Certification:*
In order to pass UL or ETL certification for the strips, Only certain kinds of FPCs (Flexible printed circuits) and encapsulations are allowed. 

Many cheap products have cheap FCB with very minimum copper tracks, therefore heating up the FPC and in turn heating up the LEDs. Also as seen in a picture above this post, some manufacturers use RGB FPC for single color LEDs instead of single track FPC. In order to get UL certified, which means that only safe and high quality LEDs and FPC have been used you have to to pay a minimum of $7K-$12K for the certification and a yearly fee to maintain it. This is very important when the product will be used in commercial applications. (Specially for insurance purposes in case of fire or hazards)

*3. Misrepresenting information*
Many cheap 5050 Strips from amazon vendors for example, claim to be TriChip (3 Dies inside each 5050 core) and then they are only single chip...
*
4. Binning:* 
Good quality strips usually have a +/- 100K Binning increments, which means that there could be a difference of just a 100K in all the chips (Makes it more difficult and expensive to do it this way), where as cheap strips have binning of 500K.

*5. Color Consistency: *
With Customers that buy 50 spools of warm white and then 7 months later they buy another 50 spools, they know that they will get exactly the same tone and Kelvins, where as with a cheap supplier, in a same shipment you will get a variety of tones and Kelvins. This is not a problem if you just install one, but in a big room with cove lighting, this is an issue.

*6. Warranty: *
Cheap strips have a max of 90 Day warranty. Why? (Do I need to explain?) It should be no brainier to offer 3 years.

*7. 12V Vs 24V Strips . *
Ofter 40W of strip its better to run a strip at 24V. Why? Half the current traveling inside the strip therefore less heat!

*8. Over-driving bad quality chips:*
You can buy very cheap and not bright encapsulations and overdrive them bu sing smaller Ohm resistors to perform like the big boys. Visually they are the same brightness as the premium ones but the phosphor decay is very fast (Less than 3 months.

Example: A 12W strip @ 12V uses 1 amp (According to ohms law) if you run that 12W strip at 24V you just need 0.5A.......

Now a few techniques to increase the lifetime of high power LED strips:

1. Install the in metal surfaces and if that is not available use aluminum strips glued to the surface for heat dissipation.
2. Install a PWM Dimmer, even if you dont plan to use it. PWM dimmers create a Pulse Wide Modulation on the current (Not the voltage) and depending on the frequency and amplitude of that modulation the LEDs will turn ON/Off very quickly thus making the the eye think its always on but n reality its only have the time....
3. Don't keep them on 24/7 if you don't need the light!


Just my 2 cents.

Manuel


----------



## John Pombrio

Whew, lots to read here. I think the major difference is the application. There is a vast difference between using the strips for mood lighting a room or under cabinet lighting and lighting a strip as part of flooring or outside mounted in concrete. There are specialty lighting places for the latter, and they are durable a hell and cost about as much, heh.
I own 12 5 Meter strips, both white and RGB color strips from LEDwholesalers on Amazon. They are dirt cheap and work EXTREMELY well. I have had three RGB strips outside on the shed and house now for almost a year, and only one small segment has broken (my bad in mounting I think). They are bright, throw off very little heat, and the CRI on the white looks to be around 80+ (not terrific but good enough!) and color temp around 5K. These things have been very reliable. 
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...efix=LEDwho,aps,181&rh=i:aps,k:ledwholesalers


As for what are in them, they are listed in the description. Frankly, whatever they put into them are just about perfect, lots of light with no heat (so no heat sinks required and they should last damn near forever), extremely good control of the color, many LEDs on one strip, even the sticky on the back works well. As for the waterproofing, It is mostly splash protection as there is a flexible silicone "tube" open at the ends but I would imagine that the darn things would work underwater, heh. I run a few 24/7 but at 30 watts for 16 foot, no big deal.

If you have a particular environment that you need to put them in and they have to work in a harsh environment, then you may need to worry about the quality. Otherwise, at these prices, buy a few from LEDwholesalers and try them out!


----------



## DIWdiver

I agree with much of what the previous two posters have said, but I do have some thoughts that may not be quite in line...

I have seen several inexpensive white LED fixtures lose >90% of their output over a few years of being on most of the time. This is definitely not what the major manufacturers promise, and, I believe, deliver.

That said, its possible that a cheap mfr may produce much better product today than they did some years back. Remember, this is a very fast moving industry.

None of the major certifying agencies or governmental requirements ever say anything about quality. I've worked with FCC, UL, ETL, CE, CCITT (now ITU) on numerous projects. None of them care if the product fails 6 months down the road, as long as it can't hurt anyone or disrupt other equipment. The only requirements I know of that specify longevity standards are in automobile lighting. Specifically, the US Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (and probably many similar standards worldwide) requires that exterior lighting meet the specified requirements after long-term exposure to specific environmental conditions designed to tax the equipment's ability to survive.

Low voltage equipment (nominally 48V and under) other than power supplies operating from mains or other higher voltage inputs is rarely subject to any electrical safety standards.

PWM dimming is better than analog dimming in two respects: it can be more efficient, depending on design, and it will maintain color consistency better. But installing one and leaving it at 100% will provide absolutely no benefit other than enriching the people providing the dimmer. Other than having better color consistency, LEDs dimmed with PWM will have lower efficiency (in the LED, maybe not in the overall system) and shorter life, due to having higher RMS current than an equally bright LED dimmed in analog.


----------



## alpg88

it looks like a spam post, that trys to sell strips, at least that what it looks like to me, becose my personal experience with such strips, is opposite of what the post is trying to make us believe


----------



## John Pombrio

alpg88 said:


> it looks like a spam post, that trys to sell strips, at least that what it looks like to me, becose my personal experience with such strips, is opposite of what the post is trying to make us believe



If referring to me, no relationship with LEDwholesaler (whoever or whatever they are) but just happened to buy, what?, 12 strips of LEDs from them plus some other stuff. You actually had failures? What was the application that they were in and how long ago did you buy the strips? I've had two failures, one in the AC to DC adapter and three LEDs that I broke on the end of the strip while installing. Otherwise, the 10 or so strips I am currently running working fine with daylight switching on/off outdoors and using the remotes indoors for over a year now and no failures. these things cost $30 or so for the whole RGB shebang and a lot less for just White LEDs and an adapter, so it's a no brainer to use them and lose them after a few years.
An alternative to LED strips that I have had success with is LED rope lights, also used outdoors now for over 3 years: http://www.orangetreetrade.com/shop/


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## John Pombrio

DIWdiver said:


> I agree with much of what the previous two posters have said, but I do have some thoughts that may not be quite in line...
> 
> I have seen several inexpensive white LED fixtures lose >90% of their output over a few years of being on most of the time. This is definitely not what the major manufacturers promise, and, I believe, deliver.
> 
> That said, its possible that a cheap mfr may produce much better product today than they did some years back. Remember, this is a very fast moving industry.



I subscribe to the LEDS Magazine: http://www.ledsmagazine.com/index.html . You can easily get a subscription if you lie about your business, heh. Indeed, a very fast moving business! I have seen my first LED street lights, my first LED parking garage lights, and my first LED gas station lights just in the past year. That is where the big push is for, commercial. residential is less of a player until they can bring the price down. 
The major failure and degration of LEDs in general is mostly due to heat. The hotter, the chip, the faster it degrades or dies. The cheap LED strips that I have been playing with are running at damn near ambient temperature (just measured the LED strip under the cabinets, ambient plus a degree or two on the LED substrate) and are cool to the touch. I will have to see if hotter weather has any effect long term on my outdoor strips (live in Connecticut tho). At $20-30 a pop, if they die in a few years, that's OK by me, but I doubt that they will lose their brightness much over that time, not with the cool temperature they are running at.


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## NickBose

I think it is agreed that generally 5630 strip is brighter than 5050 strip.
But what about double 5050 strip with 600 LEDs per 5m? How is the brightness compared to 5630 strips which only exist in single form of 300 LED per 5m?


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## alpg88

John Pombrio said:


> At $20-30 a pop, if they die in a few years, that's OK by me, *but I doubt that they will lose their brightness much over that time*, not with the cool temperature they are running at.


they do lose brigness, by a lot actually. and i don't doubt, i know for a fact. it is not a matter of few years, it is matter of few months. and they surely do not run at cool temp. they overheat and chips burn out.
here is a strip that ran almost 24\7 for few months, note 3 black dots, and darkned trases on the strip. all result of "cool temperature they are running at" lol


----------



## Briankauf

Hey folks - has anyone used the ribbons from Yuji? They seem very proud of their high-CRI and even-higher CRI offerings. The highest end (95+ CRI) ones aren't cheap ($40 a meter), but the just-high CRI (90+) ones are not so bad ($20 a meter).

http://store.yujiintl.com/?gclid=COSX4vWVjr0CFc1j7Aod4BEAog


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

Interesting that they are using violet chips. It seems only logical, since you can't take a 450nm pump and make something fluoresce at lower wavelength. However, I notice an efficiency drop with the violet chip. We still can't have our cake and eat it yet. But dern, we are getting very close, eh?

I noticed that the <256 serial, individually addressable LED strips have drastically decreased in price. They used to be several hundred for a kit, now you can find cheap-o ones for under $100, and well-made ones for not too much more. y'all seen the pixelpusher stuff at illumination supply? Looks less standard, but also looks like its very well put together.

Wonder if anybody's made blank LED strip kits available yet..


----------



## MalBernd

Yes, the addressable led strips are cheaper and cheaper, so more and more welcomed by the users all over the world.
There are many professional suppliers, such as insomnialighting (USA), GREELED (Chinese Factory),ADAFRUIT(USA) and others.


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## AgEngineer72

I have worked with LED lighting for years including conversion projects in my job. More recenty I've also been working on projects at home. I ran across this forum while trying to learn about others' experiences with led strips. I'm dabbling with them for kitchen under cabinet and in cabinet lighting. So far my limited experience with strips are that they run cool and seem to be fairly uniform in light level over time (relatively short time so far). My experience so far seems more in line with John P's but I'm mindful of alpg's warnings. Have any of y'all used the non-waterproof version of strips under cabinet? Crude bare bones? I sourced mine (12vdc, 5050s) from a local led store here in the DFW area and I know they're far east imports. But alpg's dire warnings not withstanding, they look good and seem to be ok so farbut I'mjust getting started with strips.


----------



## idleprocess

AgEngineer72 said:


> I have worked with LED lighting for years including conversion projects in my job. More recenty I've also been working on projects at home. I ran across this forum while trying to learn about others' experiences with led strips. I'm dabbling with them for kitchen under cabinet and in cabinet lighting. So far my limited experience with strips are that they run cool and seem to be fairly uniform in light level over time (relatively short time so far). My experience so far seems more in line with John P's but I'm mindful of alpg's warnings. Have any of y'all used the non-waterproof version of strips under cabinet? Crude bare bones? I sourced mine (12vdc, 5050s) from a local led store here in the DFW area and I know they're far east imports. But alpg's dire warnings not withstanding, they look good and seem to be ok so farbut I'mjust getting started with strips.


I have some single-die 3528s also performing undercabinet duty with ~500 hours on them without apparent degradation. Also have some RGB 5050's from them as permanent holiday lights under some eaves with ~100 hours' runtime. Neither are waterproof. 

Did you obtain yours from LED City perchance? I've always had positive experiences with them so far, and their prices are decent.


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

y'all have an actual LED store? Jealous!


----------



## idleprocess

bshanahan14rulz said:


> y'all have an actual LED store? Jealous!



They sell almost everything LED except bare components ... So the appeal to the hobbyist is somewhat limited.


----------



## AgEngineer72

idleprocess said:


> I have some single-die 3528s also performing undercabinet duty with ~500 hours on them without apparent degradation. Also have some RGB 5050's from them as permanent holiday lights under some eaves with ~100 hours' runtime. Neither are waterproof.
> 
> Did you obtain yours from LED City perchance? I've always had positive experiences with them so far, and their prices are decent.



Hi Idle- no I got them at LED King, farther up 35E at Royal. I've browsed LED City but liked the prices and the hobbyist feel of the other place better. Product is all about the same.

bshanahan- yep, we have several LED stores. Best I can tell they're all storefronts selling Far East product. But prices are a lot better than the usual electronic suppliers and you can walk in and see, touch and sniff the product.


----------



## idleprocess

AgEngineer72 said:


> Hi Idle- no I got them at LED King, farther up 35E at Royal. I've browsed LED City but liked the prices and the hobbyist feel of the other place better. Product is all about the same.
> 
> bshanahan- yep, we have several LED stores. Best I can tell they're all storefronts selling Far East product. But prices are a lot better than the usual electronic suppliers and you can walk in and see, touch and sniff the product.



Ah yes - I just happened to be headed north on 35E the other day on an odd route and noticed that place. Weird that Dallas now has _multiple_ suppliers for that niche.


----------



## AgEngineer72

idleprocess said:


> Ah yes - I just happened to be headed north on 35E the other day on an odd route and noticed that place. Weird that Dallas now has _multiple_ suppliers for that niche.



There's another store on Harry Hines a block or two south of Royal. It's such a cluttered mess that I couldn't tell much about what they offer. Looks like they're more targeted to really custom configurations.

I bought the non-waterproof, bare bones 5050 led strips at LED King and they seem to work well so far. They are white, single color 5050 and are assembled with the 2 conductor strip instead of mono color on a RGB 4c strip. So far they run cool to the touch. Will probably get more of them.


----------



## shrikant

I am new to the forum and also to the various technicalities governing led. I bought a 5630 strip of 5 meters. It has 300 leds but the print on the strip says 5630, 600. I also noticed that 390 is printed on all the soldered joints. Would like to know the meaning of all this. Did I really buy a 5630 strip ? Paid about 8 pounds on ebay. No problem with the light as such. Curious to know whether these things matter. I am trying to make a light panel for video work. Thanks.


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## RoGuE_StreaK

Is every second pad empty? Without seeing pics, I'm guessing that it's a generic strip capable of holding either 600 LEDs or 300 LEDs for that length. By "390 is printed on all the soldered joints", do you mean perhaps little black blocks with 390 printed on them? If so, they'd be the resistors, 390ohm, which would make perfect sense for a ~3.3V LED running at 25mA from a 12V source. If you had two LEDs in series (the 600 format), you'd need about 240ohm, which is what I'm seeing in googled pics for these strips.

5630 is just a size, 5.6mm x 3.0mm, I should say that's what you've received, just get a ruler and roughly measure them. As to which _manufacturer / spec_ of the 5630, that's anyone's guess.


----------



## shrikant

RoGuE_StreaK said:


> Is every second pad empty? Without seeing pics, I'm guessing that it's a generic strip capable of holding either 600 LEDs or 300 LEDs for that length. By "390 is printed on all the soldered joints", do you mean perhaps little black blocks with 390 printed on them? If so, they'd be the resistors, 390ohm, which would make perfect sense for a ~3.3V LED running at 25mA from a 12V source. If you had two LEDs in series (the 600 format), you'd need about 240ohm, which is what I'm seeing in googled pics for these strips.
> 
> 5630 is just a size, 5.6mm x 3.0mm, I should say that's what you've received, just get a ruler and roughly measure them. As to which _manufacturer / spec_ of the 5630, that's anyone's guess.



Thanks for the response. There are 300 in total and 18 led's per 12". 
Forum does not seem to allow direct pasting of images. I loaded led strip image on my flicker site.Hope it will open here. Right side of the image shows the end where I have cut the strip to use 2.5 meters with a 5amp adapter.




The 390 riddle is solved with your input.
Since this is my first purchase I cannot compare the brightness to others like 5050 etc., I was curious to know about brightness and the quality of what I have bought in comparison to others.Thanks once again.


----------



## shrikant

shrikant said:


> Thanks for the response. There are 300 in total and 18 led's per 12".
> Forum does not seem to allow direct pasting of images. I loaded led strip image on my flicker site.Hope it will open here. Right side of the image shows the end where I have cut the strip to use 2.5 meters with a 5amp adapter.
> 
> 
> 
> The 390 riddle is solved with your input.
> Since this is my first purchase I cannot compare the brightness to others like 5050 etc., I was curious to know about brightness and the quality of what I have bought in comparison to others.Thanks once again.


Hi friends,
I think the utility value of the led strip image posted on flicker by me is fulfilled by now. It is bit embarrassing for me to keep the image of a led strip on flicker which I use for displaying photographs I have taken,for whatever they are worth. I will be deleting the image tomorrow. Please excuse me for that. Thanks.


----------



## RoGuE_StreaK

Sorry forgot to check it out, flicker (and all "social media") is blocked here at work.
Hope the strip does the job for you!


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## shrikant

RoGuE_StreaK said:


> Sorry forgot to check it out, flicker (and all "social media") is blocked here at work.
> Hope the strip does the job for you!



Oh, I didn't think of that !!
I have posted the image again.Please take a look. Now I realise that this might help others also to see what it looks like. Any input from you is welcome. As I mentioned earlier, how true or nearer is this to 5630. I noticed that there are other brand names like Samsung etc which charge heavily for 5630. Are those any different or better ?


----------



## mangodan

I must concur with algp88 regarding these LED's fading.

I had some ambitious plans about 2 years ago to replace lighting in most my house with them, but only got so far, time, etc. but turns out I was right to do things slowly. I have various strips in the kitchen white, and RGB, all triggered by PIR - so not on all the time, they are all PWM controlled from an MCU, fade up / down. I use the RGB's tp add a bit of tone to the white, on a low setting, the whites are at 100%. Due to some thin wiring there is a bit of a voltage drop to them so they actually don't even run at the full 12 volt, but rather 11.8 on one of the white sets, and 11.5 on the other. One of these sets is a 5050 type, the other the smaller variety (3528 or something). Both were so bright as to be painful to look at directly when installed, both are now easily watcheable for as long as you like.

I had another strip of the 3528 lighting my small home-office, it used to give a good light. In the winter I noticed it had dimmed to the point I was struggling to see things so I replaced half of it with a new 5050 strip for comparison. Wow the difference, they were multiple times brighter and I could see clearly again. But this exercise had raised my suspicions to these LED strips and I've now been keeping a closer eye on them. And what do you now, already the new set are noticeably dimmer than they were just a few months ago. On this set I can even easily see where some of the LED's have gone fainter than others.

I have another set, lighting my stairway, down-lighting from the banister. These are RGB, also PIR triggered, but I run them on a very low % of their potential output. As far as I can tell these have not faded. These are also not covered in the silicon / waterproofing that all the others are so may also benefit from an increased ability to dissipate heat.

I would advise anybody about to invest any amount of money in these to think carefully about how they are to be used, as full load for any length of time and they will not last.


----------



## Hawk_SC

I have had both good luck and bad luck when buying 5050 5M led strips

The good luck. I have a 2700k whitestrip mounted to my aluminum gutter that has been serving a a floodlight for my back yeard now for 4 years. The only failour was a lightning stike that took out the power supply. The power supply that I use is 15v and 6 Amps. 


The bad luck. I bought 2 more strips from a differend source. These were 4000K white. The issue with these is the voltage drop along flexable PCB results in a visable blightness drop along the strip. When powered from both ends it sort of fixed the problem but I dont want to run the extra wires.


Has anyone had the same issue with the voltage drop?


----------



## LEDealer

Not sure if it was mentioned previously, but I saw LED light strips with mid power and low power products from Osram Optoelectronics and Philips Lumileds at the Light Fair in Las Vegas two weeks ago.

I guess there are high quality options available on the market now for those of you who haven't been happy with the quality of parts that were on the market before...


----------



## samsmith

Hi Guys

Sam here!

I think this thread is probably a bit old now! However I still found it and read it rom Google so im guessing other people will. 
Many of you are discussing the comparisons of the LED strip and asking if their really is any difference in quality. Well I have just come across this comparison video which I though helped show this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW7jtvkvX3s


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## SemiMan

samsmith said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Sam here!
> 
> I think this thread is probably a bit old now! However I still found it and read it rom Google so im guessing other people will.
> Many of you are discussing the comparisons of the LED strip and asking if their really is any difference in quality. Well I have just come across this comparison video which I though helped show this!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW7jtvkvX3s



With the exception of the voltage drop and backing strip, most of that video was crap.

Brighter does not mean better.... just different, and they were technically measuring candela, not lumens.

Thinner is usually better for heat transfer ... not thicker.

Semiman


----------



## gary93

I bought a cheap set of led strip for like $15 and it's been running fine for 2 years. Don't know if it is going to run out soon or not.


----------



## htsystems

OK, new here. I did a few test on led strips, 5050 and 5630 white. Temp with IR thermometer I found that 5050 running on 12vdc was ok but still got hot. 5630 got real hot 160f in free air. 5630 put out more lm/w than 5050. 5050 did ok on 11vdc and 5630 I had to go down to 10 to 10.5vdc to try and keep temps down, I think under 120F. Sorry didn't write it down and it was in free air, not touching anything.
I also made a light strip before this test, ran it 24/7 and in a few months it was dim. It was made into an aluminum channel for a heat sink.
Next time I'll try the lower voltages and may even make up small strips to keep on 24/7 and keep a check on with a light meter.
I think more strips at lower voltages is the answer or at least it should help. 
Mine came from ebay.
Anyone try strips in a car and see how fast they burn out on 13+vdc? LOL I did, not long.
I read one post taking about over-driving leds. I talked to one company and was told many companies were over driving to get better lumen's for their led to sell more, be careful. 
I did make a led light with 2 50w cob leds on a heat sink with fan and used 60deg lens. It is working great. I even left it on for 4 weeks at one time. I'll keep an eye on it, but so far I'm happy with it. Heat sink was from off a CPU. After reading the post here I need take a reading with my light meter and write it down on the light and check it each month or so. Its many times brighter than the 4 t8 48" tubes I had.

Good luck


----------



## samsmith

SemiMan said:


> With the exception of the voltage drop and backing strip, most of that video was crap.
> 
> Brighter does not mean better.... just different, and they were technically measuring candela, not lumens.
> 
> Thinner is usually better for heat transfer ... not thicker.
> 
> Semiman



Hi Semiman

Thanks for the reply. Im a little confused, i am looking to buy some of this strip from china and I was going to send over a sample of the best product I have found so they could match exact. I was thinking the brightest strip is best as it will ultimately do more of its job? and if it has the widest PCB this is a bigger heat sync than a smaller heat sync? Maybe you mean the heat sync would be best thinner in width and thicker in depth although that would make the LED strip less flexible


----------



## 18650

LEDealer said:


> Not sure if it was mentioned previously, but I saw LED light strips with mid power and low power products from Osram Optoelectronics and Philips Lumileds at the Light Fair in Las Vegas two weeks ago. I guess there are high quality options available on the market now for those of you who haven't been happy with the quality of parts that were on the market before...


 I caught those on Mouser when I was browsing the other day. The Philips Lumileds XF-3535L line looks like it might be an easy way to roll ones own strip lighting without making too big of a mess. I might order some and try them out. It would be nice to buy something that has actual data sheets available.


----------



## soldierboy

Hi!
I recently installed a short led stripe (8 LED – from a 5630 type stripe). I used a 12v 500mA 7w declared power supply and I'm noticed that my LED started dying. Is it possible that the power supply is to powerful?
I would be grateful if someone could help me. I'm not an electrician. 
Thanks.


----------



## soldierboy

Hi!
Please is there anyone that could help me with this problem?


----------



## alpg88

anything is possible, but most likely your strip overheated and degraded, just like most of them, if you have a voltmeter measure voltage while the strip is on, if it is 12v or less, your power supply is not to blame.


----------



## poiihy

You can lower the voltage a bit to extend the life of your LEDs. If your power supply doesn't have any way to adjust the voltage, you can use a diode or two.


----------



## idleprocess

soldierboy said:


> Hi!
> I recently installed a short led stripe (8 LED – from a 5630 type stripe). I used a 12v 500mA 7w declared power supply and I'm noticed that my LED started dying. Is it possible that the power supply is to powerful?
> I would be grateful if someone could help me. I'm not an electrician.
> Thanks.


5630 packages appear to want 150mA, so with 8 LED's, you would need a power supply capable of supplying 1200mA to light them up at max current. Since your power supply is only rated at ~40% of the required current, I wonder if it's not the power supply that's the problem - perhaps it's sagging under that load? I would try a power supply with a higher rating before declaring the LED's dead unless you have other indications, such as burned LED packages.


----------



## SemiMan

Highly unlikely. Odds are the current was too high and frying the LEDs. Many cheap 5630 can't take 150ma and certainly not on a strip with poor heat sinking.


----------



## soldierboy

Hi.
Thanks for the help. I will try both options. I already ordered a 300mA power supply. I would like to know if I asume correctly that one LED is 0.24W with this type of stripe.


----------



## SemiMan

You cannot assume that.


----------



## soldierboy

This is the 15cm about 5.9 inch in length (5630type 9LED) stripe and the power supply.











I tested the voltage at the end of the LED stripe and it was about 14v. As you can see in the picture the declared output is 12v. The LEDs were hot so I'm assuming that this power supply is to powerful.
So on the seen pictures what do you recommend (how much rated power supply should I use)? Once again thank to all that are helping me to solve this issue.


----------



## soldierboy

Sorry here are the images.


----------



## idleprocess

OK, time for some very hasty back-of-the-envelope calculations. Looks like 390 ohm resistors on that strip and the packages look like they're single-die. With a typical Vf for each LED of 3V summing to 9V, that suggests the resistors are supposed to be dropping the remaining 3V. 3V / 390 ohm = ~7.7mA. If your power supply isn't regulated and is putting out 14V instead, that leaves the resistor dropping 5V ... 5V / 390 ohm = ~12.8mA - 167% more current than design.

It's possible I missed something or made a mistake, but I think you need to look at a _regulated_ AC adapter that has a more stable voltage output.


----------



## soldierboy

*idleprocess* thanks! In accordance with what you explained is it possible to calculate what kind of power supply should be used for a random length of the stripe? I would like to know what should I look for and how that I will be able to calculate/select the right power supply!?


----------



## alpg88

most power supplies are not regulated, which means rated voltage will be only when load is equal to what PS is rated, if you use such PS, and have lower load than it is rated for, higher voltage is very likely. I can see from your pic, the leds are degraded due to heat, that tiny black dot is a sign. 

what I always do now, I use regulated ps, from a laptop, you need 18-20v, and wire 2 equal strips in series, so they share the voltage, and run at lower voltage\current. they make very little heat, but not as bright, thus double the amount of strip. my strip in the kitchen is on 24\7, it doubles as night light, it is only slightly warm at the touch, strips are glued onto a 4ft aluminum ruller I got at home depot, but at that voltage current they can be glued to anything, heat sinking is not necessary, they barely get warm


----------



## DIWdiver

Back in the day when small power supplies used big iron transformers, it was true that many were not regulated. However, virtually all being made today are switchmode converters, and most are inherently regulated.

It's easy to tell the difference - if it feels like there's a big hunk of iron inside, there probably is. Then it's a coin toss whether it's regulated. If it's too light to be half iron, then it's a switchmode and very likely is well regulated.

The only way to tell for certain though is to measure the output under no load. Or to read the specs (if they exist).


----------



## xfoxx

stevemayman said:


> I have been researching LED strips. It seems they come in two varieties: cheap and expensive. I read a post on another site a while back where someone bought a bunch of comparable strips at a variety of price points and reached the conclusion that they were all identical (produced at the same factory anyhow) so buy the cheapest. Unfortunately he did not compare 5050s to 3528s nor did he include any of the "higher end" products such as the FlexFire Ultra Industrial series which claim 730 lumens per foot. My questions:
> 
> 
> Has anybody done actual side-by-side comparisons of lights from various manufacturers (from Hitlights at $19 per reel to FlexFire at $335 per reel?)
> Are manufacturers claims of output and efficiency generally reliable?
> Is CRI info left off of strip light specs because it is horrible? Is bright white better than warm white?
> I am trying to make some purchasing decisions and don't feel that I have enough verifiable information to make an informed choice. I many have to buy a few brands to compare but spending $350 on a spool of FlexFires just to experiment with seems a bit extreme!
> 
> Thanks!



not recommend order cheap LED strips,because easy have problems.

white LED strip bright than warm white


----------



## alpg88

what strip would you recommend?


----------



## alpg88

DIWdiver said:


> Back in the day when small power supplies used big iron transformers, it was true that many were not regulated. However, virtually all being made today are switchmode converters, and most are inherently regulated.
> 
> It's easy to tell the difference - if it feels like there's a big hunk of iron inside, there probably is. Then it's a coin toss whether it's regulated. If it's too light to be half iron, then it's a switchmode and very likely is well regulated.
> 
> The only way to tell for certain though is to measure the output under no load. Or to read the specs (if they exist).



you prbly right, I have noticed many, new ps are light, I have few, from ap phone, mailing machines, printers, phone chargers, shaver charges. toothbrush charger. however I rarely used them for diy. mostly for their intended purpose. or when I did, some voltage fluctuation was not an issue. heavy ones however I find a lot in my field, and use them for diy, I especially like laptop ps, but I had no idea they actually made differently, thanks for the lesson.


----------



## chainrash

I was trying to find what I would need for an LED strip for under my cabinets and found this post really helpful. It breaks down what to look for and the benefits of each strip and helped me choose the right strip for the job. Check it out here: http://www.ledsupply.com/blog/ultimate-guide-on-buying-led-strip-lights/


----------



## billondrums

I have been working with an R&D LED designer for several months and have been selling LEDs for three years and I can confirm some of the comments in this thread. LEDs will fade over time and it is expected. Running the LEDs on less than maximum power will give them a much longer useful life. Use more LEDs to illuminate your project and run them at half power. If they were manufactured correctly then they will last. 

Not all LEDs are made the same. LED chips from Japan tend to be of higher quality.

Heat is the enemy of LEDs. Use an aluminum channel without a cover. Use the deepest channel that will work in your application. It works as a heat sink.

The white and black strips slow heat dissipation. Use copper (unpainted) strips.

I hope this helps.


----------



## mds82

chainrash said:


> I was trying to find what I would need for an LED strip for under my cabinets and found this post really helpful. It breaks down what to look for and the benefits of each strip and helped me choose the right strip for the job. Check it out here: http://www.ledsupply.com/blog/ultimate-guide-on-buying-led-strip-lights/



I have one of these AC Flex strips and want very impressed with it. I found the color to be rather green and as well the whole thing smelled really bad like oily plastic. Just my $0.02


----------



## PU Skunk

billondrums said:


> I have been working with an R&D LED designer for several months and have been selling LEDs for three years and I can confirm some of the comments in this thread. LEDs will fade over time and it is expected. Running the LEDs on less than maximum power will give them a much longer useful life. Use more LEDs to illuminate your project and run them at half power. If they were manufactured correctly then they will last.
> 
> Not all LEDs are made the same. LED chips from Japan tend to be of higher quality.
> 
> Heat is the enemy of LEDs. Use an aluminum channel without a cover. Use the deepest channel that will work in your application. It works as a heat sink.
> 
> The white and black strips slow heat dissipation. Use copper (unpainted) strips.
> 
> I hope this helps.



Thanks, 
How's the best way to run at half power? You mean with a dimmer?
Does running mutiple low powered strips in parallel like you say, require a muti-channel dimmer?
Without breaching forum etiquette, do you recommend any brands?
Do dimmers hurt or help led lifetime? There were different opinions.


----------



## jashhash

Hi Folks,

I'm in Shenzhen right now where the bulk of the whole world's LED tape comes from. I can tell you that there is an enormous difference between good and bad quality LED tape. Unfortunately almost all the LED tape being sold on Ebay or Amazon is the bad quality stuff. It's simply impossible to make good quality LED tape and sell it for a profit for $10 a roll. Also almost no LED tape makers in Shenzhen make high quality LED tape since it's just too hard to sell. A good quality roll of LED tape with Samsung or LG chips will cost you around $25 per roll (still with bad CRI). Also you can't tell if an LED tape is good quality by the LED shape (5050 vs 5630) since it's only the outside packaging. What you really need to know is what LED die they have installed in the package. Generally larger die size means a much better quality LED like I will explain further in the below photos. However just because the LED die is large doesn't necessary mean it will have better performance, you really have to test the brightness with a light meter. My ideal for LED tape would be something using 90+ CRI Nichia LEDs, but I doubt that such an expensive LED tape will sell well to the general lighting market. 




This is a photo of a cheap 5630 LED. Look at how incredibly tiny the LED die is. 




This is a photo of a high quality 5630 LED. Look how large the LED die is compared to the cheap one.


----------



## ilgrank

@jashhash: thanks for your report.
As far as you know, there are on the market quality led strips (provided I'm willing to pay the right price for them of course)?

I mean.. Samsung, LG, Nichia.. they're making loads of led chips.. they must end up somewhere 

I installed 'quality' (of course, by the seller's opinion) 3014 strips in my bathroom, heatsinked to an aluminum bar, and after just a year of 20 minutes a day use they're noticeably dimmer.. and installing them has been a PITA.. I'd want to swap them for something better, but really, can't figure out what :/

Thanks!


----------



## TheGiantHogweed

jashhash said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I'm in Shenzhen right now where the bulk of the whole world's LED tape comes from. I can tell you that there is an enormous difference between good and bad quality LED tape. Unfortunately almost all the LED tape being sold on Ebay or Amazon is the bad quality stuff. It's simply impossible to make good quality LED tape and sell it for a profit for $10 a roll. Also almost no LED tape makers in Shenzhen make high quality LED tape since it's just too hard to sell. A good quality roll of LED tape with Samsung or LG chips will cost you around $25 per roll (still with bad CRI). Also you can't tell if an LED tape is good quality by the LED shape (5050 vs 6030) since it's only the outside packaging. What you really need to know is what LED die they have installed in the package. Generally larger die size means a much better quality LED like I will explain further in the below photos. However just because the LED die is large doesn't necessary mean it will have better performance, you really have to test the brightness with a light meter. My ideal for LED tape would be something using 90+ CRI Nichia LEDs, but I doubt that such an expensive LED tape will sell well to the general lighting market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a photo of a cheap 5630 LED. Look at how incredibly tiny the LED die is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a photo of a high quality 5630 LED. Look how large the LED die is compared to the cheap one.





This is very interesting for me. I have bought 2 5m rolls of a 5630 LED strip. Both were pretty cheap. About £8 each. I have just tested them both with a dimmer and when I look really closely when they are very dim, The LED die (if that what it is called as I didn't know) is actually about the size of the cheap ones in your picture. 
I have to say though, I haven't noticed any dimming over time with either of them. However, the 2nd one I bought, was noticeably dimmer at the far end compared to the end where it was being powered. Maybe this was a sign of it being cheap. Something that sorted that out though was splitting it in half and powering both of the shorter strips by the same power supply. By powering it that way, the LEDs didn't seem to be dimmer further down the strip like it was when it was 5m.

I have been impressed with the brightness of both though. Noticeably better at spreading the light out over a wider and further area that my 5050 and 3528 LED strips. I am just wondering what the different size of the die could result in. Could the life be much shorter with cheaper strips? Mine seem to be lasting well so far.


----------



## jashhash

Curiously there is high quality yet affordable LED tape here in Shenzhen but the way they make it is a bit of a black market mystery. Apparently there are people whose job it is to smuggle in zip lock baggies filled with Korean chips (Samsung and LG). They literally take apart the reels and stuff like 100,000 LEDs in a zip lock 1 QT baggie. They smuggle the chips to China this way in their airplane luggage. Just one trip and they can smuggle in around $25,000 worth of LED chips. Anyways once they get to the China side they have a factory filled with workers whose job it is to take the zip lock baggies filled with Korean chips and re-assemble them into reels since a CNC pick and place machine can't install loose chips. In this way you can get decent quality LED tape here with Korean chips at less than 1/2 the price it would normally cost. You can import the reels from Korea too but that's insanely expensive. 

There is one problem with this sort of black market chip assembly though. Smuggling the chips all stuffed in a ziplock bag can cause a few defects where the chips rub against each other during transit. Also when they re-assemble the reels sometimes Samsung and LG chips are all mixed together in the same reel. it's sort of a crap shoot, but hey it's better than the cheap Chinese chips. Oh... Speaking of Chinese chips though. There are some higher quality Chinese chips emerging in the market which cost significantly more than the cheap variety while being roughly the same price as the smuggled Korean chips. I personally use a higher quality Chinese chip for my company rather than using Korean chips since it's a lot more reliable to source since there is an unlimited supply available. 

Still none of this can compare to the awesomeness of a Nichia high CRI chip. Nichia LED tape would be the holy grail of the high quality LED tape market. Neither the Korean or Taiwan chip makers can touch Nichia. Even CREE is less desirable than Nichia.


----------



## uofaengr

I'd been thinking about putting LED strips in my safe for awhile but never got around to doing it. Now that my safe is in a pretty dark place, I went ahead and jumped on it. I looked at a kit to do it for $40, but priced everything out on Amazon and realized I could do it for less than $15 and with a magnetic door switch. I never thought about the actual quality of the LEDs though I did. look at a lot of reviews. I got 16 ft for a little more than $6 so yeah they're probably really cheap ones. Install was easy with a strong adhesive, and they put out nice and bright white light (they're daylight white) and really makes my safe look top notch. Whether they hold up or dim over time, I don't know, but I'm pleased so far and will only be used in short bursts. If they crap out or anything, I'll be sure to update.


----------



## idleprocess

uofaengr said:


> I'd been thinking about putting LED strips in my safe for awhile but never got around to doing it. Now that my safe is in a pretty dark place, I went ahead and jumped on it. I looked at a kit to do it for $40, but priced everything out on Amazon and realized I could do it for less than $15 and with a magnetic door switch. I never thought about the actual quality of the LEDs though I did. look at a lot of reviews. I got 16 ft for a little more than $6 so yeah they're probably really cheap ones. Install was easy with a strong adhesive, and they put out nice and bright white light (they're daylight white) and really makes my safe look top notch. Whether they hold up or dim over time, I don't know, but I'm pleased so far and will only be used in short bursts. If they crap out or anything, I'll be sure to update.



You're likely not going to be putting many hours of operation on them over time nor should you be operating them for long periods, so the longevity may not be terribly important.

I did something similar and they operate perhaps 60 minutes a month in increments no longer than 10 minutes.


----------



## uofaengr

idleprocess said:


> You're likely not going to be putting many hours of operation on them over time nor should you be operating them for long periods, so the longevity may not be terribly important.
> 
> I did something similar and they operate perhaps 60 minutes a month in increments no longer than 10 minutes.


May I ask if your setup is 12VDC or AC powered?


----------



## idleprocess

uofaengr said:


> May I ask if your setup is 12VDC or AC powered?



Nothing exotic - 12V DC using a regulated AC-DC power supply and a door switch that actuates the DC side.


----------



## uofaengr

idleprocess said:


> Nothing exotic - 12V DC using a regulated AC-DC power supply and a door switch that actuates the DC side.


Ok, am powering mine with 8xAA and was curious about an estimate on battery life. As little as I keep the door open, I expect it to last a good while.


----------



## Camo5

Recently A friend of mine purchased a "starry night" copper wire waterproof LED strip that looked fantastic wound around his walls in the dorm room. A quick amazon search revealed that they are available from anywhere between $8 and $22, but I can't figure out at all which cheaper ones could be legit or not, nor are there any details of what LED is used...


----------



## TheGiantHogweed

uofaengr said:


> Ok, am powering mine with 8xAA and was curious about an estimate on battery life. As little as I keep the door open, I expect it to last a good while.



I should have realised that it was possible to power a 12v strip with 8 AA batteries as they are 1.5v each. Something else that would be useful it if I could get my 2m 5v USB powered LED strip to be AA battery powered so I don't have to use my power bank. I have seen that 3 AA batteries can be used to make a 5v strip work. Although that will only add up to 4.5v. I have just bought this: 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00SUXSH36/ 
It takes 4 batteries which would add up to 6v so I am wondering if that would be too much for the strip or not.


----------



## uofaengr

TheGiantHogweed said:


> I should have realised that it was possible to power a 12v strip with 8 AA batteries as they are 1.5v each. Something else that would be useful it if I could get my 2m 5v USB powered LED strip to be AA battery powered so I don't have to use my power bank. I have seen that 3 AA batteries can be used to make a 5v strip work. Although that will only add up to 4.5v. I have just bought this:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00SUXSH36/
> It takes 4 batteries which would add up to 6v so I am wondering if that would be too much for the strip or not.


I went DC powered because I didn't want to drill a hole in my safe. I tested the lights with 8 eneloops I have which do not add up to 12v and they still powered the lights. For how long, I don't know though.


----------



## idleprocess

uofaengr said:


> I went DC powered because I didn't want to drill a hole in my safe. I tested the lights with 8 eneloops I have which do not add up to 12v and they still powered the lights. For how long, I don't know though.



Making some assumptions and using some round numbers:
A typical 12V strip w/ single die packages probably drives each 3-LED segment at 20mA, and LED Vf is probably around 3V, leaving 3V of voltage margin for regulation. 3V / 0.020A = 150 ohms.

Your eneloop pack will range from ~1.45V hot off the charger to ~1.10V nearly flat, so you're likely to see the following _per-segment_ currents at the following voltages:

*1.45V* (2.6V overhead) : 17mA
*1.40V* (2.2V overhead) : 15mA
*1.35V* (1.8V overhead) : 12mA
*1.30V* (1.4V overhead) : 9mA
*1.25V* (1.0V overhead) : 7mA
*1.20V* (0.6V overhead) : 4mA
*1.15V* (0.2V overhead) : 1mA
*1.10V* (-0.2V overhead) : -1mA

Note that LED Vf should drop somewhat as current decreases, thus the actual LED current dropoff won't be as simple as modeled - at 1.1V you'll probably still get some light. I would multiply the number of segments times the 1.3V current value to _back-of-the-napkin_ estimate total current draw then compare that to the nominal mAH of your eneloops. If you have, say 20 segments drawing 180mA and your eneloops are 2000mAH then your runtime is going to be approximately 11.1 hours.


----------



## alpg88

uofaengr said:


> I went DC powered because I didn't want to drill a hole in my safe. I tested the lights with 8 eneloops I have which do not add up to 12v and they still powered the lights. For how long, I don't know though.


i use 6aaa to power my dog harness, still works and is pretty bright, but does not get hot at all. as for runtime for your 8 eneloops, you need to mesure the current, because at less than 12v they do draw not as much current, as they would with 12v supply, cuz if you find info on current draw, it would be for 12v, not 9.6v you get from eneloops, measure the current draw first, than you can calculate runtime.


----------



## purduephotog

jashhash said:


> Still none of this can compare to the awesomeness of a Nichia high CRI chip. Nichia LED tape would be the holy grail of the high quality LED tape market. Neither the Korean or Taiwan chip makers can touch Nichia. Even CREE is less desirable than Nichia.



I hate to ask...

I've been fighting for high cri LEDs. I found High CRI LED Lighting | Yuji LED, got some samples and ran them down in the lab. Their violet pumped 6500k is dead on. So I bought 100 of the 5730 chips to make little lights for my analysts.

Also got some 2700k to make s bedroom night lights.

How does one go about getting these made directly? I have been buying cheap mcpcb linear from Ali and cutting and desoldering chips.

Just really want to finally get my perfect color dim light right.


----------



## stevemayman

Briankauf said:


> Hey folks - has anyone used the ribbons from Yuji? They seem very proud of their high-CRI and even-higher CRI offerings. The highest end (95+ CRI) ones aren't cheap ($40 a meter), but the just-high CRI (90+) ones are not so bad ($20 a meter).
> 
> http://store.yujiintl.com/?gclid=COSX4vWVjr0CFc1j7Aod4BEAog



Hi Brian,

I bought Yuji's (The 90 CRIs) for our kitchen. They are not just under cabinets, but in cove lighting and pendants as well providing all the light to the kitchen. They are on a lot. My observations:

I had an extensive amount of interaction with an engineer at Yuji, who was happy to provide reams of test data and discuss his product at a level I couldn't possibly understand. What I could understand: this company makes their own ribbons and really care about innovation and light quality.

I bought lots of different commodity LEDs on Ebay and Amazon for comparison. All, regardless of brand and price, were visually identical but varied considerably, largely in color temperature. Even reels from the same vendor purchased at the same time differed. Typically the LEDs were considerably cooler than advertised.

The Yuji's, however, were clearly different. The traces were more substantial and just seemed better made. They did seem to be spliced from shorter strips though, which was occasionally frustrating if I wanted to cut at a place where they had spliced.

I did a side-by-side comparison with one of the better commodity strips with identical specifications to the Yuji, except for the Yuji's higher claimed CRI and higher claimed wattage and lumens. To my surprise, using the same power supply to power both strips they looked almost identical. No significant difference in brightness, color temp, or CRI! They Yuji was drawing slightly less than the commodity rather than twice as much. I asked the Yuji engineer about this and he said that I was not driving them to their rated potential based on my power supply. Very interesting.

I can't remember the exact pricing, but my recollection were that the Yuji's were about 4x the price of the commodity strips at that time.

After about two years I am extremely happy with the Yuji. They have a very pleasant color temperature, seem to be high CRI, and have performed flawlessly. We use them perhaps 4 hours a day and I have noticed no loss in brightness so far.

Some months later I had to install about 25 meters worth of LEDs for our office. This time there was a high CRI option available on eBay, or so they claimed. I ordered a roll and they appeared to be of high quality and the light looked good. They guaranteed that if I bought 4 more rolls the light would match perfectly across strips. I went for it and was pleasantly surprised. They have been in about a year now, and are used about 10 hours a day. No problems so far with these either. No noticeable drop in brightness, etc.

If I were doing this for a living or providing product to customers I would go with Yuji. They seem very earnest, very proud of their quality, and like they truly care. I trust them. I just went back to their site to see if their prices had dropped in the last two years. Nope. Still $100/5m roll, but now you get 95 CRI for that (instead of 90) and 120 diodes/meter instead of 90. I did not compare the rest of the specs because I am not sure where I kept them.

Hope that is helpful. I really don't think you can go wrong with the Yuji, but if you are a gambler you can find a lower price for what might be a comparable product on eBay.


----------



## degarb

stevemayman said:


> Hi Brian,
> 
> I bought Yuji's (The 90 CRIs) for our kitchen. They are not just under cabinets, but in cove lighting and pendants as well providing all the light to the kitchen. They are on a lot. My observations:
> 
> I had an extensive amount of interaction with an engineer at Yuji, who was happy to provide reams of test data and discuss his product at a level I couldn't possibly understand. What I could understand: this company makes their own ribbons and really care about innovation and light quality.
> 
> I bought lots of different commodity LEDs on Ebay and Amazon for comparison. All, regardless of brand and price, were visually identical but varied considerably, largely in color temperature. Even reels from the same vendor purchased at the same time differed. Typically the LEDs were considerably cooler than advertised.
> 
> The Yuji's, however, were clearly different. The traces were more substantial and just seemed better made. They did seem to be spliced from shorter strips though, which was occasionally frustrating if I wanted to cut at a place where they had spliced.
> 
> I did a side-by-side comparison with one of the better commodity strips with identical specifications to the Yuji, except for the Yuji's higher claimed CRI and higher claimed wattage and lumens. To my surprise, using the same power supply to power both strips they looked almost identical. No significant difference in brightness, color temp, or CRI! They Yuji was drawing slightly less than the commodity rather than twice as much. I asked the Yuji engineer about this and he said that I was not driving them to their rated potential based on my power supply. Very interesting.
> 
> I can't remember the exact pricing, but my recollection were that the Yuji's were about 4x the price of the commodity strips at that time.
> 
> After about two years I am extremely happy with the Yuji. They have a very pleasant color temperature, seem to be high CRI, and have performed flawlessly. We use them perhaps 4 hours a day and I have noticed no loss in brightness so far.
> 
> Some months later I had to install about 25 meters worth of LEDs for our office. This time there was a high CRI option available on eBay, or so they claimed. I ordered a roll and they appeared to be of high quality and the light looked good. They guaranteed that if I bought 4 more rolls the light would match perfectly across strips. I went for it and was pleasantly surprised. They have been in about a year now, and are used about 10 hours a day. No problems so far with these either. No noticeable drop in brightness, etc.
> 
> If I were doing this for a living or providing product to customers I would go with Yuji. They seem very earnest, very proud of their quality, and like they truly care. I trust them. I just went back to their site to see if their prices had dropped in the last two years. Nope. Still $100/5m roll, but now you get 95 CRI for that (instead of 90) and 120 diodes/meter instead of 90. I did not compare the rest of the specs because I am not sure where I kept them.
> 
> Hope that is helpful. I really don't think you can go wrong with the Yuji, but if you are a gambler you can find a lower price for what might be a comparable product on eBay.



Excellent information.

I went to the yujiintl link. The CRI break down graphic hit me likd a ton of bricks: It isn't the CRI number that is of interest, rather the CRI breakdown. I now know, why low CRI lights may work fine on all colors but one or two. If they won't publish the info, I will be forced to break out my paint color decks and do a systematic hunt for weakly rendered colors, and avoid using that light im areas with that color range. http://www.yujiintl.com/img/graphics/standard_led_cri.png


----------



## stevemayman

degarb said:


> Excellent information.
> 
> I went to the yujiintl link. The CRI break down graphic hit me likd a ton of bricks: It isn't the CRI number that is of interest, rather the CRI breakdown. I now know, why low CRI lights may work fine on all colors but one or two. If they won't publish the info, I will be forced to break out my paint color decks and do a systematic hunt for weakly rendered colors, and avoid using that light im areas with that color range. http://www.yujiintl.com/img/graphics/standard_led_cri.png



Yeah, this is very interesting from a technical point of view, but not as easily observed in the real world. We do some beta testing for printer manufacturers and have test prints hanging around that have a wide range of colors in natural scenes. I took those images as well as some brightly colored Pantone swatches when I did my subjective CRI comparison. I have to say the difference between the high and low CRI strips was subtle to undetectable. I also compared each to halogen and again only subtle difference. So subtle that I doubt most people would even notice. If you read the technical documents you imagine something like low pressure sodium where there is almost no color rendering, but in reality most of the better low CRI strips seem to do just fine. Even the reds seemed quite well saturated.

This article from C-net is also very informative, and seemed to match my real world experience. In spite of the Cree bulb having a severe drop off at the red wavelength, this was not too noticeable in the photographs. Color temperature seems to have a profound impact on perceived light quality with CRI a distant second. Some cheap ribbons have a green cast which is the kiss of death, but if you get a decent yellow/amber hued 2700-3000 K temperature then 80-90 CRI may be fine for general purpose use.

Our office currently has cheap 3000K high CRI ribbons, pendant fixtures with integral LEDs at 3000K and MR16 halogens all peacefully coexisting. The color difference is subtle. Occasionally I will ask people sensitive to color if they noticed the quality of light or color difference among our various fixtures and none have yet. These LEDs work fine for us, and for this early in the game that is saying something! In a decade it would not surprise me if all LEDs were 95+ CRI and much more faithful to their claimed color temperature.


----------



## uofaengr

uofaengr said:


> I went DC powered because I didn't want to drill a hole in my safe. I tested the lights with 8 eneloops I have which do not add up to 12v and they still powered the lights. For how long, I don't know though.



Update: I put these batteries in on 11/18/2015 and they're still going strong, just as bright and I open the safe a lot. Even for at least a couple hours straight the other weekend when I was cleaning it out. Very pleased so far with this setup for less than $15.


----------



## Sunbrilo

Evaluation LED strip
1. LED strip beads used. Whether it is pure copper bracket, gold. Inferior LED using iron and aluminum brackets, costs less than 1/5
2. The LED strip circuit board used in an overlying thick copper foil thickness is enough
3. Each whether to use a short constant current IC to ensure that no pressure drop behind, made of lights dark.


----------



## hvoxr

Can anyone recommend a good supplier? I am looking to replace the LED strip for the monitor backlight I made a few years ago that has mostly dimmed/burned out now (bought from eBay).

I'm looking for ~5m, up to ~$40, but I think <$10 is a better value for what I need. I was happy with the old cheap one.

Is 5630/5730 the best option? I've heard good things about 2835/3014, but they're harder to find. I'm thinking about making a metal backing bracket to use as a heat sink. I'm looking for unpainted copper & non-waterproof (if it's better). I was thinking about trying to solder quality chips on, but I don't think that's worth it.

I'm getting cool white, the RGB I've seen don't offer a full color palette, they just change between single color options. (And RGB I've seen is usually 3258/5050)

Thank you for any recommendations, I'm looking at $7/5m on Amazon, or going with a seller with good reviews on AE.


----------



## Lithopsian

Work out how bright you need, on what length of tape, then you'll know what type to buy. For less than $10, you'll probably need to import from China, but maybe you can find something. 5630/5730 is (potentially) more powerful and brighter (and hotter!) than the others. 3528 is essentially obsolete, 2835 is better in every way except perhaps price. 3014 is in between, but you probably won't find it so perhaps best to forget about that. Look out for double-density tape if you need more power or want the dots closer together, without jumping to 5630 levels. 

And of course, you'll need to know what colour! I was assuming white. If you need RGB, colour changing, anything like that then you'll be wanting 5050 strip. Only reason to choose 5050 really now.

I would recommend non-waterproof unless you need waterproof. Easier to stick on (and stay stuck!), less chance of yellowing, cracking, and heat buildup.


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## hvoxr

Thanks, I figure that since I don't really know how to spot fakes/quality I'm better off going cheap. Plus I don't really need high CRI. Any idea if 5630/5730 will be alright being run for hours at a time at 50-100% brightness? I'm trying to make a metal backing plate out of square stock, but it might not happen. If I can get 18+ months out of it I'll be satisfied. Going to get cool white, unless I can find an RGB which can display the full color palette.


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## ssanasisredna

People are getting too hung up on 5630, 2835, 5050, 3014, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, etc. ..... it's all pretty meaningless.

The die coming out of Taiwan (Epistar), and the better mainland Chinese companies (various), used properly, is going to last 50,000 hours with little degradation (70%+ lumen maintenance). The problem is are they used properly. If it's a die meant for 20mA and it's driven at 50mA, it's not going to matter whose die it is. Same deal if it is packaged really poorly.

W.r.t. package type, the bulk of the volume market has moved past the 5630, it's just too expensive a package. 3030 packages are preferred in the 0.5W (ish) to 1W range. 2835 is somewhat dominant at 0.2 - 0.5W, driving a lot of the LED tube and some of the backlight market, with the backlight market moving to much smaller packages, i.e. 3014/4014 as they need them to be thinner.

A "good" 60mA 2835 LED is about $0.01. A lot of the strips use lower quality than that. That market is going to be better served by 3014 LEDs as the volume of those increases as the package costs less (less phosphor in particular). Given $3.00 of LEDs in a 5 meter, 300 LED strip, it would be pretty easy to make something tolerable in the $15-20 resale range), with decent thickness copper so there is not too much drop. Unfortunately, as most people want the cheapest crap, you get $10 strips with crap LEDs, too thin of copper, etc.


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## ssanasisredna

People are getting too hung up on 5630, 2835, 5050, 3014, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, etc. ..... it's all pretty meaningless.The die coming out of Taiwan (Epistar), and the better mainland Chinese companies (various), used properly, is going to last 50,000 hours with little degradation (70%+ lumen maintenance). The problem is are they used properly. If it's a die meant for 20mA and it's driven at 50mA, it's not going to matter whose die it is. Same deal if it is packaged really poorly.W.r.t. package type, the bulk of the volume market has moved past the 5630, it's just too expensive a package. 3030 packages are preferred in the 0.5W (ish) to 1W range. 2835 is somewhat dominant at 0.2 - 0.5W, driving a lot of the LED tube and some of the backlight market, with the backlight market moving to much smaller packages, i.e. 3014/4014 as they need them to be thinner.A "good" 60mA 2835 LED is about $0.01. A lot of the strips use lower quality than that. That market is going to be better served by 3014 LEDs as the volume of those increases as the package costs less (less phosphor in particular). Given $3.00 of LEDs in a 5 meter, 300 LED strip, it would be pretty easy to make something tolerable in the $15-20 resale range), with decent thickness copper so there is not too much drop. Unfortunately, as most people want the cheapest crap, you get $10 strips with crap LEDs, too thin of copper, etc.


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## jimsy1

whats the difference between 5736 and 7020 tho


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## alpg88

the way the strip is build, it makes little difference what leds are used, heat is not removed properly.


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## ssanasisredna

alpg88 said:


> the way the strip is build, it makes little difference what leds are used, heat is not removed properly.



That is a generalization that may be true for cheap LEDs and poorly constructed strips, but it is just that, a generalization ... it does not apply to every strip.


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## alpg88

ssanasisredna said:


> That is a generalization that may be true for cheap LEDs and poorly constructed strips, but it is just that, a generalization ... it does not apply to every strip.


show me good flexible strip.


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## angerdan

alpg88 said:


> show me good flexible strip.


Philips Hue LightStrip Plus.


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## mds82

Has anyone ever used these before: http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?r=997-L219-3080006FV0C I plan to use these for my kitchen undercabinet lighting with a 24v power source


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## Lithopsian

mds82 said:


> Has anyone ever used these before: http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?r=997-L219-3080006FV0C I plan to use these for my kitchen undercabinet lighting with a 24v power source



I've never needed to use a constant current strip to get an even brightness over the lengths I wanted to run. A good quality unregulated (just a current-limiting resistor) will run 5m (10m with 24V) without a big brightness drop, and certainly half that without any brightness change that you can see at all. If you're just running fairly short pieces, or it is convenient to wire the power separately to short lengths, then I'd just get a standard strip and spend the extra cash elsewhere, perhaps on a nice profile to house it, or some cute gadgets like touch-sensitive switching or a PWM dimmer. Using 24V already gives you so much flexibility to run long lengths. The constant current chips do save you having to think about such things though, and they avoid dumping 25% of your electricity into a keeping a resister warm, and avoid glitches like different brightness levels when different drivers don't quite put out the same voltage.

The brightness looks about right for under-cabinet lighting, perhaps even a bit too bright if there is such a thing. Strange that they chose to run those tiny 3014 SMDs quite hard to get it, but should be OK with a good build behind them. It's still only about 0.15W per LED, so hardly going to melt under the load.


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## alpg88

angerdan said:


> Philips Hue LightStrip Plus.



wow that is pretty expensive, thou i can see why, defiantly looks more complicated than rgb strip that is 20 bucks per 5 meters.


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## angerdan

alpg88 said:


> wow that is pretty expensive, thou i can see why, defiantly looks more complicated than rgb strip that is 20 bucks per 5 meters.


Only the StarterSet seems expensive, but the AddOn is just $25 per 1meter/40inch/3feet.

Compared to the old Osram DECO FLEX (from 2011), the Lightstrip Plus seems cheap.
Think about the technical data!
idealo.de/preisvergleich/CompareProducts/100C-4883149-2660392-5167844-2660420-5014152.html

Philips Lightstrip Plus
25 $/m
800 lm/m
11 W/m
73 lm/W

Osram Deco Flex
50 $/m (100% more expensive)
63 lm/m (just 8% brightness of Lightstrip Plus)
5 W/m 
13 lm/W (6x less efficency than Lightstrip Plus)


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## alpg88

angerdan said:


> Only the StarterSet seems expensive, but the AddOn is just $25 per 1meter/40inch/3feet.
> 
> Compared to the old Osram DECO FLEX (from 2011), the Lightstrip Plus seems cheap.
> Think about the technical data!
> idealo.de/preisvergleich/CompareProducts/100C-4883149-2660392-5167844-2660420-5014152.html
> 
> Philips Lightstrip Plus
> 25 $/m
> 800 lm/m
> 11 W/m
> 73 lm/W
> 
> Osram Deco Flex
> 50 $/m (100% more expensive)
> 63 lm/m (just 8% brightness of Lightstrip Plus)
> 5 W/m
> 13 lm/W (6x less efficency than Lightstrip Plus)



i find the numbers fishy to say the least. 13lm\w is what 100 years old incandescent light do. even decade old 5mm leds do better. seems like marketing b.s. to me.

but this is not really what i care about with strips, it is ability to remove heat to allow sustained output, and so far i have not seen any flexible tape that does it. they all made using same flexible board with plastic backing, regardless of leds, or processors mounted.


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## Lithopsian

alpg88 said:


> i find the numbers fishy to say the least. 13lm\w is what 100 years old incandescent light do. even decade old 5mm leds do better. seems like marketing b.s. to me. but this is not really what i care about with strips, it is ability to remove heat to allow sustained output, and so far i have not seen any flexible tape that does it. they all made using same flexible board with plastic backing, regardless of leds, or processors mounted.


 Maybe you should actually try using some. These are not 100W emitters. They are low power SMDs, spaced out along fair amount of copper. They are not mounted on fancy heatsinks and they don't need to be. They are quite capable of shifting 0.08W, or occasionally up to 0.24W, into the copper and plastic. Where it goes from there is the most important factor in heat control. Mounting the higher power strips on an insulating surface like wood means they will get pretty hot - within tolerances but hotter than ideal. The low power ones you can run in fresh air and they barely get warm. There are some now with things like 7020 SMDs on them, or double-density of 0.2W LEDs, that really need to be mounted on metal to keep cool, but that's hardly a reason to condemn the whole concept. I sniff a bit of snobbery here ...


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## angerdan

alpg88 said:


> i find the numbers fishy to say the least. 13lm\w is what 100 years old incandescent light do. even decade old 5mm leds do better. seems like marketing b.s. to me.


This are the specs from the Philips/Osram for these products, if you want to prove them wrong you could measure the products. 
Btw, i do own both Lightstrip Plus and Deco Flex.


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## Lithopsian

angerdan said:


> This are the specs from the Philips/Osram for these products, if you want to prove them wrong you could measure the products. Btw, i do own both Lightstrip Plus and Deco Flex.


 So do you think the quoted specs are about right for what you have? 63 lumens/m is barely a nightlight. I suppose you can use several strips in parallel


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## angerdan

They are "not as bright" as the Lightstrip. But six years ago they was the first from an good brand, so i was satisfied back then. 
Next plan is to power the Deco Flex via USB to get them portable.


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## ssanasisredna

Lithopsian said:


> Maybe you should actually try using some. These are not 100W emitters. They are low power SMDs, spaced out along fair amount of copper. They are not mounted on fancy heatsinks and they don't need to be. They are quite capable of shifting 0.08W, or occasionally up to 0.24W, into the copper and plastic. Where it goes from there is the most important factor in heat control. Mounting the higher power strips on an insulating surface like wood means they will get pretty hot - within tolerances but hotter than ideal. The low power ones you can run in fresh air and they barely get warm. There are some now with things like 7020 SMDs on them, or double-density of 0.2W LEDs, that really need to be mounted on metal to keep cool, but that's hardly a reason to condemn the whole concept. I sniff a bit of snobbery here ...



I sniff a lack of knowledge as reasonable quality 3014, 2835, and other LEDs can be run at 85C solder point temp and hit 50K hours at 70% maintenance and 105C solder temp temp for 40K+ hours is not unheard of. Per LED wattage is quite low in strips, and at 105C, your heat transfer is going to be pretty high. What is sits on is important, but what also matters is what it is encapsulated in.

As pointed out Philips makes a quality product.


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## alpg88

Lithopsian said:


> Maybe you should actually try using some.


i have as i posted build many times on this board, you' otoh show not only lack of practical knowledge, but lack of understanding what i'm talking about.


Lithopsian said:


> These are not 100W emitters. They are low power SMDs, spaced out along fair amount of copper.


lol, 100W?? how is that relavant?? no one is talking 100w emiters here, try to be relevant i know exactly what is on the strips. the amount of copper is only fair at driving them at 1\2 load, something i've learned from practical use. that is also something that is the same on all flex strips regardless of leds, 


Lithopsian said:


> They are not mounted on fancy heatsinks and they don't need to be. They are quite capable of shifting 0.08W, or occasionally up to 0.24W, into the copper and plastic.


i know they are not, none of them are, that is exactly what i was talking about, and that is exactly what you missed, no wonder you tried to be a wise azz.


Lithopsian said:


> The low power ones you can run in fresh air and they barely get warm.


yes i know, i wrote it may times on this forum alone. your point is????


Lithopsian said:


> There are some now with things like 7020 SMDs on them, or double-density of 0.2W LEDs, that really need to be mounted on metal to keep cool, but that's hardly a reason to condemn the whole concept. I sniff a bit of snobbery here ...


again i know exactly what is on those strips. i also know that mounting on metal does not really do much, that i've also learned from multiple spools of burned out leds after running for months mounted on aluminum profile, at rated voltage.

you need to make sure you know what is the conversation about before joining. 
now just for fun learn what lm\w is


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## alpg88

Lithopsian said:


> So do you think the quoted specs are about right for what you have?



no i do not, i have a problem with 13lm\w for leds, but seeing how you have no idea what those numbers mean, you make yourself look bad by commenting on issues you are clueless about,


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## alpg88

angerdan said:


> This are the specs from the Philips/Osram for these products, if you want to prove them wrong you could measure the products.
> Btw, i do own both Lightstrip Plus and Deco Flex.



not really, those look like misquotes from some seller, again 13lm\w is what old incandescent lights do, not leds, even the ones 10 years old. no led has such poor efficiency, i have seen dozens of different ways sellers tweak numbers to make stuff they sell, look presentable. this is one of the cases, no doubt to me,


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## ssanasisredna

alpg88 said:


> not really, those look like misquotes from some seller, again 13lm\w is what old incandescent lights do, not leds, even the ones 10 years old. no led has such poor efficiency, i have seen dozens of different ways sellers tweak numbers to make stuff they sell, look presentable. this is one of the cases, no doubt to me,



I expect they are listing the lowest lm\w which would be the blue and/or listing the lm/w of a single small length of strip powered by a driver designed for much larger loads hence high quiescent power and driving the lm\w down.


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## alpg88

ssanasisredna said:


> I expect they are listing the lowest lm\w which would be the blue and/or listing the lm/w of a single small length of strip powered by a driver designed for much larger loads hence high quiescent power and driving the lm\w down.


sorry but no, the number is just wrong either way you look at it, regardless of driver\color\load leds do a lot more than 13lm/w. actually the lower the current the higher lm\w ratio


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## idleprocess

alpg88 said:


> again i know exactly what is on those strips. i also know that mounting on metal does not really do much, that i've also learned from multiple spools of burned out leds after running for months mounted on aluminum profile, at rated voltage.


Thermal conductivity of the tape that garden-variety strips are built on is so poor that it's apt not to matter much what you mount it to - copper, aluminum, pot metal, glass, wood, sheetrock, the paper backer on rolls of fiberglass insulation. While one of my more recent projects does noticeably warm the Al channel it's mounted to, I don't expect it to last more than a few thousand hours at ~33% duty cycle without dimming since I used cheap-ish strips that doubtlessly overdrive the LED die at faceplate voltage. All my other LED tape projects are even _lower_ utilization such as cabinet, closet, and shed lighting.


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## ssanasisredna

alpg88 said:


> sorry but no, the number is just wrong either way you look at it, regardless of driver\color\load leds do a lot more than 13lm/w. actually the lower the current the higher lm\w ratio



I don't think you understand my post.


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## alpg88

idleprocess said:


> Thermal conductivity of the tape that garden-variety strips are built on is so poor that it's apt not to matter much what you mount it to - copper, aluminum, pot metal, glass, wood, sheetrock, the paper backer on rolls of fiberglass insulation. While one of my more recent projects does noticeably warm the Al channel it's mounted to, I don't expect it to last more than a few thousand hours at ~33% duty cycle without dimming since I used cheap-ish strips that doubtlessly overdrive the LED die at faceplate voltage. All my other LED tape projects are even _lower_ utilization such as cabinet, closet, and shed lighting.



they all warm aluminum profile, but it is a little too late. there is so much heat trapped in those strips it really does not make any difference.
what i did find out, that if you drive them at 9-10v they are do not heat up at all, thou you need to double the amount to get same light, compared to driving them at 12v. it is only 2-3v less, but current drops almost to half. i used many different strips, with 5050 2835, and few other kinds of leds, i'm not sure of the name, all seem to have same base, and same heat problem, those that are in silicone sleeve, as opposed to polymer encapsulation, are cooking themselves inside.


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## alpg88

ssanasisredna said:


> I don't think you understand my post.


without example your post is a bunch of generalization and wishful thinking.


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## ssanasisredna

alpg88 said:


> without example your post is a bunch of generalization and wishful thinking.



If you lack experience and knowledge yes, otherwise no.


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