# Polarion, Helios XeVision Beam Shots Redo



## Mr Ted Bear (Nov 13, 2006)

Here's the plan

Nine photos of fourteen different lights is too much too handle (123 pictures).






By removing the duplicate and triplicates, the situation improves... three photos of fourteen lights (42 pictures). 





Next, I eliminate six sets of three (18 pictures) which have already been discussed previously (Beast, X990 Spot, X990 Flood, and two (plus one) configurations of the Barn Burner*). Three are “old”, and nothing about them has changed. 

The Barn Burner, at 75 watts, falls into its own category, it simply has many times more lumens that any thing else on the market. 





The remaining 24 pictures are of the Polarion P1, the Helios, and variantions of the XeRay 50 watt*. 
***Variations of the XeVision lights will be addressed later.







Now the commentary : Polarion vs Helios
I start by comparing the Polarion P1 versus the Polarion Helios. At distance, it’s really a toss up if one out throws the other Fig 1





At intermediate range, the Helios has a larger secondary beam as can be seen in Fig2.





Acccording to the manufacture’s specs, the Helios puts out 40 watts, and the P1 is 35 watts . 

 _Looking at beam shot comparisons photos can be tricky._  Here in Fig 3, is an example of another light, focused slightly differently. Reflector, ballast , bulb and LUMENS are the same in both shots, , but the look at the difference. Just because the foreground is brighter, or the core hot spot is brighter, doesn’t always mean one light puts out more lumens the other. Remember, these are the same lights 





Getting back to the P1 versus the Helios, the core hot spots (tree) are about the same. I conclude that the brighter area in the fore ground is more lumens, and not just a trade of throw versus flood.


XeVision XeRay overview
I received the XeRay 50 at the beginning of the year; it was one of the first units Dan at XeVision received from Taiwan. XeVision uses their own ballast, and a supplies a GE bulb. XeVsion has available an upgrade to a 75 watt unit, by replacing the ballast and substituting the GE bulb with a Phillips DL50. The Phillips bulb can be used with the 50 or 75 watt ballast In theory, the case and reflector are the same. I received the 75 watt Barn Burner a few weeks ago.

So the XeRay can use two bulbs. It was by accident that I discovered that the *reflector* in the XeRay 50 and the Barn Burner were different. I will refer to them as R1 and R2. 2 bulbs times 2 reflectors equals four possibilities. 

There is another variable to the equation, and goes something like this. In the case of the McCulloch X990, the bezel/reflector can be set to minimum (tightest focus spot), and is adjustable to maximum (flood beam pattern). 

The XeRay 50 with the R1 reflector operates in the same way; minimum position is the tightest spot, and adjustment to maximum yields more of a flood pattern. 

So, given what I am accustomed to, when I used the Barn Burner with R2 reflector, I set the reflector bezel to minimum position, expecting the tighest spot. Tons and tons of light came out, much more than any other light. Why would I think the light needed to be focused to obtain maximum throw? I was very surprised to find out the R2 can be focused to even a tighter spot than “minimum” position. 






Here are the six variations of the XeRay






You should see a temperature difference between the GE and DL50 bulbs. Also, I think the DL-50 has the edge for total lumens. The R2 looks very impressive in the fore ground, but notice how the tree is not as evenly illuminated . However, check out the brown dirt just under the tree (that’s another 100 yards plus) See how the Phillips with DL50 when focused get’s out there.

*Now for your test....*
Here are the XeRays mixed up with the Polarions and Helios.... which is which?






Summary and conclusions at 11


----------



## LuxLuthor (Nov 14, 2006)

I'm sorry this became such a pain in the arse...but this is really some thoughtful and incredible work, and you deserve a lot of kudos for redoing this so exhaustively. It's really a shame there ended up being the variations in reflector sizes...as that interjected a wild card.

I'm also relieved to see that my 50W GB & BB GB lights have the same size reflectors...so I'm guessing that was an early unique "late prototype" design.


----------



## mtbkndad (Nov 14, 2006)

Mr Ted Bear,

You should wait a couple of days and see if anybody can get the picks right.
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## LuxLuthor (Nov 14, 2006)

That was too easy. You should mix them up by individual pix, not by row. It is pretty easy to see the brown dirt in the distance under the large trees that shows in most of the XR shots though...which is not visible in the Polarion/Helios views.


----------



## mtbkndad (Nov 14, 2006)

LuxLuthor,
Which Reflector do you have?
I assume from your post that it is R2, am I correct?
I would also like to hear Dan's explanation of the reflector issue since he has not posted anything yet.

Specifically- 
Is this the "normal" variation he gets from the factory?
Was this an early prototype reflector?
Did he even know there was a difference up to this point?

I am not attacking Dan. I just am very curious about this whole issue.
One CPF member communicated to me "I would like to get a XeRay product, but am concerned. If there is this much difference in their performance, how will I know if I get the better reflector?"

My answer was simple, ask Dan?

My comment beyond that would be, define "better".

I am also curious about the other XeRays that are out there, who has what reflector?
Dan seems to be conscientous about his product so I would think he is very curious at this point in time.
I know he has been on CPF answering slow startup questions, I would love to have some answers from the manufacturer about XeRay reflector questions. I recognize that Dan is essentially the assembler and not the manufacturer so it may take a little time to get an answer from the manufacturer of the reflector itself.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## XeRay (Nov 14, 2006)

The 50 watt unit that Mr Ted Bear had was a very early production unit. I don't believe that any of the units sold after that would share the older reflector.

The BB he was sent a few weeks ago is the same exact unit the other BB 75 watt buyers received.

I was waiting to see the final photos before commenting.


----------



## TeflonBubba (Nov 14, 2006)

Any thoughts as to how soon the upgrade package from 50W to 75W (BB) will be available?


----------



## TeflonBubba (Nov 14, 2006)

So, to define terminology:

XeRay Searchlight Models:
XR = XeRay 50W (not 75W)
BB = Barn Burner (XeRay 75W using Phillips DL50 bulb)

Bulbs:
GE = GE 50W Bulb (standard on XeRay 50W)
Phil or DL50 = Phillips DL50 (upgrade for BB but still a 50W bulb)

Reflectors:
R1 = Early Production Reflector from XeRay 50W Unit
R2 = Current XeRay 50W Reflector / BB Reflector Recent Production

What does "Max" signify?


----------



## larryk (Nov 14, 2006)

My guess for Max would be Maximum tight focus ???


----------



## LuxLuthor (Nov 14, 2006)

TeflonBubba said:


> Any thoughts as to how soon the upgrade package from 50W to 75W (BB) will be available?



LOL...that has been the "million dollar" question many of have been asking of Dan since getting our 50W lights about 9 months ago! His only answer after all this time is that every aspect of the long, long, long delays involved in the legendary Barn Burner group buy must be ended before he will start this long promised upgrade. 

The only remaining outstanding (very minor) issue from that BB GB is finally getting the 12V car battery charger out to them. That one issue has dragged on for many months...while our 50W GB which came first must wait....and wait....and wait...and wait....and wait....and wait....

No matter how many cleverly worded requests to get our upgrades going, including this recent one here, nothing has moved Dan from his basic position of one GB at a time...and I'm sure this post won't either.

Will our upgrades take a whole additional year to complete? I would not be surprised if we are still talking about it this time next year....but despite the enormous delay, I still believe eventually we will get our upgrades. This thread is not really the place to bring up the 50W upgrade "question" (read: "frustration") again...but it does come up in every thread that has anything to do with the 50W XeRay GB units.

Given that Windy was able to weasle his way into the BB upgrade that was *ONLY promised to our 9 month old GB*, if anyone else wants a BB, I would say you better get a retail XeRay 50W pronto....begin practicing your rhodent (wait...is a weasel a rhodent?...well close enough) type movements, and enter 1-877-735-4374 into your speed dial list! LOL !!!


----------



## LuxLuthor (Nov 14, 2006)

mtbkndad said:


> LuxLuthor,
> Which Reflector do you have?
> I assume from your post that it is R2, am I correct?
> I would also like to hear Dan's explanation of the reflector issue since he has not posted anything yet.
> ...



I am assuming mine is the R2, but I ONLY say that because both 50W and BB reflector models from the respective GB's are identical, and Dan reports all BB GB models as the same R2 that you guys got at the testing; ergo both of mine are R2.

The most objective way to define the two reflectors would be to take off front lens face place, and give actual wide end diameter, and depth measurement from wide to narrow ends of the cone. Then anyone truly concerned about their own reflector would know they most likely have the R2.

I know the question of R2 > R1 is raised because of the more complete/even illumination of the large tree shown with R1 views...but IMHO, I want a more intense center spot that I can wave around at my subject while in focus/spot mode. 

If I want the larger, more even illumination of the tree, I can dial back the focus until the dark donut hole gets sickeningly more noticeable, and eventually rains on the light parade. 99% of the time, I use mine moved all the way to the back/spot focus position, but then backed out "a tad" to get the best & cleanest center cone. This slightly dialed back adjustment has been discussed in other XeRay threads, and it is obvious what is meant when you use your XeRay.


----------



## windstrings (Nov 14, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> Given that Windy was able to weasle his way into the BB upgrade that was *ONLY promised to our 9 month old GB*, if anyone else wants a BB, I would say you better get a retail XeRay 50W pronto....begin practicing your rhodent (wait...is a weasel a rhodent?...well close enough) type movements, and enter 1-877-735-4374 into your speed dial list! LOL !!!



What Weasle..not me!... Dan gave me that out of the goodness of his little pea picking heart!.. you notice I don't have mine yet either!

It my understanding:
Once the parts are in, the parts are in.. but there may only be one opportunity to upgrade.

Due to Teds prior shootout pics, and I think it was maybe BVM's comments about the DL-50 that caught my attention...... I just preferred the way the DL-50 throws better and decided it would last alot longer at 50 watts than the 35 would.. I didn't mind the price difference that makes that upgrade "not" cost effective... 
Then Dan volunteered the offer to me for the future upgrade when its done, ... but I don't get mine until the "after" the originals get thiers.

Just to clear the air so everybody don't think I'm Dan's litte buddy! ...everybody already knows I'm Luxluthors favorite!


----------



## TeflonBubba (Nov 14, 2006)

I wish I were Dan's little buddy! 

Seriously, I think I touched a nerve with my question about the timing of the upgrade to BB. I am new to CPF but having read the old posts about the BB GB, I think Dan has been very accommodating and responsive. It sounds like a real pain to coordinate a GB with a whole group of impatient Flashaholics that have lots of detailed, specific quesitons.

In the end, I'd rather Dan take his time and get the upgrade package done right, than rush to get it out and have to send stuff back or get replacements.


----------



## XeRay (Nov 14, 2006)

GB's are a PITA so I want to get the last one wrapped up before starting another one. It should not be long now. I am as frustrated with this as anyone else is, I am not in total control of all aspects of this product. I intend to do things differently in the future.

Cue did the 75 watt BB GB or I probably would not have done that one. Who wants to run it for me?? Do you want to manage it Lux??

Anyone who gets a BB should be very happy since I have finally decided to NEVER offer them to the general public. Call it a very limited production unit.


----------



## TeflonBubba (Nov 14, 2006)

Maybe we should all enter a 12-step Flashaholic program and give Dan a break?

Individual: "Hi, my name is ___________ and I've been a Flashaholic for ___ years now..."

Group: "Hi, _______."

and so on......


----------



## LuxLuthor (Nov 14, 2006)

XeRay said:


> GB's are a PITA so I want to get the last one wrapped up before starting another one. It should not be long now. I am as frustrated with this as anyone else is, I am not in total control of all aspects of this product. I intend to do things differently in the future.
> 
> BTW Lux you already have a BB you purchased slighly used, what are you so irritated for. Those kind of public comments motivate me even less to hastle with any more GB's, Cue did the 75 watt BB GB or I probably would not have done that one. Who wants to run it for me?? Do you want to manage it Lux??
> 
> Anyone who gets a BB should be very happy since I have finally decided to NEVER offer them to the general public. Call it a very limited production unit.



The problem with posting on a forum or in emails is you cannot adequately convey the tone you intended. *Suffice it to say that the intention of my post was quite tongue-in-cheek since this 50W GB upgrade question has come up probly 20-30 times, and in every thread I have seen about the XeRay.* That's also why I threw in the joking part with Windstrings about his "weasling" into an upgrade slot despite not having to "suffer the months of waiting." I honestly don't mind him (or anyone you say) being able to also have one of these magnificent BB's.

Dan, I know these GB's are a PITA, and you really have been a saint with all the unexpected new prototype problems that have come up with both the 50W and BB models. I don't want to push this issue with you too hard, or cause you any grief/upset IN ANY WAY, because I REALLY do like you and the XeVision/XeRay quality, and you know I have made many supportive posts on several forums....So just read the rest of this as my historical recollection. 

Until I was able to buy the Holy Grail BB that Chris Dallas for some reason wanted to sell a few weeks ago, here was the source of the frustration that some of us 50W GB'ers have felt waiting this long. 

Remember back Dan, to when the BB first "appeared" at the end of that Dec 2005/Jan 2006 shootout and blew everyone away? The only XeVision prospect that was offered at that time was the 50W GB. During that GB, you then promised being able to upgrade to this magical BB for those getting in on the 50W GB. It was initially the ONLY sure way for anyone to be able to get a BB, and after upgrading it. 

*For that reason (Getting a BB) alone, I took the last slot in the 50W GB. If some had known a BB was coming, they likely would not have opted for the 50W model.*

However, after his strong feeler interest thread, CUE then got an unanticipated offering by you to separately produce an intact BB, and CUE ran that GB expertly. 

We had already paid for our 50W models before this BB GB was announced, and it seemed like we should have been put ahead of that new BB GB. As you said, personally, I am ecstatically happy with the BB I was able to pick up recently...but I do understand the frustration of having to wait this long for the 50W GB'ers, who felt they were taken out of the expected order in the line of getting a priority upgrade to the BB.

Again, please take that just as my historical memory...and not in any way as an attack...but hopefully it gives you a sense of the frustration in addition to the normal impatience of having to wait so many months. Everytime a new shootout, or image, or post is made about the Barn Burner that the 50W'ers still don't have...it reminds them about it again.

_*Now, given my love of these lights...and enormous respect for all that you have contributed, I would gladly volunteer to orchestrate the GB in a manner similar to how CUE did the BB one if you want me to. I am totally in your court.

*_Also, just because I carry on about the XeRay, I also see the value and unique characteristics that make other lights such as X990, Helios, Original Polarion, etc. etc. such greast offerings.


----------



## mtbkndad (Nov 14, 2006)

XeRay said:


> The 50 watt unit that Mr Ted Bear had was a very early production unit. I don't believe that any of the units sold after that would share the older reflector.
> 
> The BB he was sent a few weeks ago is the same exact unit the other BB 75 watt buyers received.
> 
> I was waiting to see the final photos before commenting.




Thanks for the information. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## BVH (Nov 14, 2006)

I've experienced a number of escalating, out of control email exchanges that end up hurting feelings over the years because one or the other party could not tell the tone was humorous, not serious. If I have a hunch my tongue-in-cheek email might be mis-taken, I'll usually put a little blurb at the end something like "the tone of this email is humorous". It may spoil a little of the impact of the email, but better that than to get someone ticked off at you.

EDIT: Removed some stuff that was hijacking Mr TB's thread.


----------



## windstrings (Nov 14, 2006)

Yep.. the Xeray is the cats meow.. IMO

Another 2 cents.... if anyone buys a 50watter and is able to upgrade it, the total cost they will pay be much more than those who got in on the original GB and have been enjoying thier light for months now.

I had to pay "full" price minus CPF discount and another premium for the DL-50 bulb and I didn't get a GE as a spare.. the DL-50 is it. 
And like I previously posted... present buyers of the 50Watters will not have the chance to upgrade until "after" all the previous GB buyers are done.

I'm thankful "as I know everyone else is too" that Dan is offering the upgrade to the CPF bunch. There is a tremedous amount of discussion out here about alot of lights.. but these big boys just take the cake. 

I find it hard to have interest in any of the others.

Dan, we all really appreciate your contribution.... I know for a fact Lux is one of your biggest supporters.... He is the one that helped turn me on to your light.....your product challenges the best of the best and in many ways "is" the best.

We can also appreciate the wisdom of not wanting to sell one to the general public. It may be safer later when its not so cutting edge.

It will only make them more valuable to own such a limited edition.

These "cannons" are similiar to the hesitation and filtering taken upon buyers when high powered lasars are sold. For liability reasons, the sellers don't want a lawsuit coming back at them because some bozo burn't thier neighbors barn down! :lolsign:

Usually the high price filters out most of the irresponsible and only leaves the serious... but not all of them.


----------



## XeRay (Nov 14, 2006)

My post #14 has been edited.


----------



## XeRay (Nov 14, 2006)

BVH said:


> I've experienced a number of escalating, out of control email exchanges that end up hurting feelings over the years because one or the other party could not tell the tone was humorous, not serious. If I have a hunch my tongue-in-cheek email might be mis-taken, I'll usually put a little blurb at the end something like "the tone of this email is humorous". It may spoil a little of the impact of the email, but better that than to get someone ticked off at you.


 
Thanks for making this point.


----------



## lasercrazy (Nov 14, 2006)

XeRay said:


> GB's are a PITA so I want to get the last one wrapped up before starting another one. It should not be long now. I am as frustrated with this as anyone else is, I am not in total control of all aspects of this product. I intend to do things differently in the future.
> 
> Cue did the 75 watt BB GB or I probably would not have done that one. Who wants to run it for me?? Do you want to manage it Lux??
> 
> Anyone who gets a BB should be very happy since I have finally decided to NEVER offer them to the general public. Call it a very limited production unit.


 Wow. Now I'm really glad I jumped on the Barn Burner GB.


----------



## LuxLuthor (Nov 14, 2006)

XeRay said:


> Thanks for making this point.



Always good advice.....and for what it was worth....I did start and end my tongue-in-cheek post with a "LOL" 

My offer to orchestrate the upgrade is a sincere one, Dan. Just let me know in a PM when you get ready if you want that.


----------



## toolboy (Nov 16, 2006)

No barnburner for the public. Now I'm getting nervous just carrying it around. It was worth alot before but now its limited quantity, good grief. I work at a fire station and was looking to get the station to pop for a couple of these for our water rescue calls. I love my barnburner and will guard it even more carefully now. However it still goes to every call with me on the fire truck, you wouldn't believe how handy it comes in. P.S. Dan the guys at our utilities will be sad to see it not available, they really loved it capabilities. Whenever the dc charger arrives is fine, I feel us BB owners already stole the store, no need to ***** about few coins. Thanks again.


----------



## XeRay (Nov 16, 2006)

toolboy said:


> No barnburner for the public. Now I'm getting nervous just carrying it around. It was worth alot before but now its limited quantity, good grief. I work at a fire station and was looking to get the station to pop for a couple of these for our water rescue calls. I love my barnburner and will guard it even more carefully now. However it still goes to every call with me on the fire truck, you wouldn't believe how handy it comes in. P.S. Dan the guys at our utilities will be sad to see it not available, they really loved it capabilities. Whenever the dc charger arrives is fine, I feel us BB owners already stole the store, no need to ***** about few coins. Thanks again.


 
That is "General Public" We will be offering it for Police, Fire, Military etc. I think that in most cases the 50 watt is more than sufficient and 50%+ longer run time.


----------



## windstrings (Nov 21, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> That was too easy. You should mix them up by individual pix, not by row. It is pretty easy to see the brown dirt in the distance under the large trees that shows in most of the XR shots though...which is not visible in the Polarion/Helios views.



Boy is this fun or what?... crazy activity and then NO POSTs for 5 days???

Whats up?

Wow, was it really that easy!... I had a few of them right, but not all.... I guess it helps if you can find a common denominator.

Anyway... you guys out there are some of the main ones that make CPF the fun place it is.... to analyse, study and critique all kinds of different issues about lights and their properites.

Our passion is motivated for different reasons, but since we are all so passionate, its easy for misunderstandings to crop up that are not intentional and soon we are trying to defend statements that just flat came out wrong. 

The spoken or written words is only the minor part of communication... too bad we don't all know each other better. Too bad we don't all live closer...

You've heard the phrase "you know just enough to get yourself into trouble"... sometimes I think its so in relationships.. we know each other, just enough to get offended, but not enough to know each others real heart in the matters and issues.

Anyway.. thats my little two cents... I have really enjoyed the interaction of all personalities involved out here.. it almost seems if just one person was missing, it would mess up the whole picture.

This is not just about a few of us either, there are tons that onlook without speaking.
2701 people have looked at the original shootout thread with only 122 posting... This redo thread has 539 onlookers with only 25 posts including this one. The Xeray feeler thread had 2387 onlookers with only 64 posts.. wow! The polarion sees battle thread had 455 onlookers and only 4 posts?

That shows there is interest...but most prefer to remain invisible.

These numbers are fairly typical for any thread on any topic... but it goes to show you that the climate, attitude, and friendships are witnessed by many and judged by many.

So with that being said.... where is the final tally on the pics... surely Lux didn't guess them all that easy??? :laughing:


----------



## windstrings (Nov 22, 2006)

I think email notifications went down for everybody since yesterday.... but should be back up soon according to Sasha...


----------



## frogs3 (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: Re: Redo, etc.*

Dear Flashaholics,

It is obvious that Windy (I feel comfortable with this affectionate moniker) has made a key point besides figuring out what light did what. We are a passionate and interested bunch of crazies who have chosen a charmingly iconoclastic hobby upon which to spend time and money.

Having spoken to Dan personally, it is clear that he is a perfectionist who has put up with a lot of annoying feedback, while still running a commercial business based on high quality products. He put me in touch with one of the few wanting to sell a 75 w BB, and I hope he is reading this, it is about the most ideal light I could request if he had given me a checklist of "desirable features". 

Its ne plus ultra is loads of lumens, and I find it difficult to rationalize more output unless there is a VERY specialized application that I can't imagine. It doesn't get hot, it works in the cold, it recharges perfectly, it has a great beam pattern, and if it does not get me arrested as a lethal weapon, I think those who are on the list should be pleased to know that the extra power is coming, and make sure Dan knows how you feel about the light when you have used it. This is the only way he will be certain that the added effort was both a practical and commercially valuable decision. 

I have given him my vote. Windy was right: more of the silent viewers need to weigh in, and we might have more + better interactions with the manufacturers who, after all, produce the objects of our desire.

Harvey K.


----------



## LuxLuthor (Nov 24, 2006)

Very well said, Harvey. 

That goes not only for Dan at XeRay, but also with the great work being done by the Polarion/Helios development company (? Kenneth) and others helping out. 

I'm not sure if they are done with all the posting in this thread of the redo of these shots, but the additional views really are nice to look at and better understand how all these variations work out.


----------



## windstrings (Nov 29, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> Very well said, Harvey.



Did I ever say your avatar cracks me up?


----------



## mtbkndad (Nov 29, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> Very well said, Harvey.
> 
> That goes not only for Dan at XeRay, but also with the great work being done by the Polarion/Helios development company (? Kenneth) and others helping out.
> 
> I'm not sure if they are done with all the posting in this thread of the redo of these shots, but the additional views really are nice to look at and better understand how all these variations work out.



I have shots from the second of the three times Mr. Ted Bear, BVH and I got together. I was at the third shoot, but my camera was on the wrong setting for my first 6 shots.

My work has been very, very busy in the past couple of months.
When I get a chance I will post them in another thread.
I was originally not going to post them, but they do show all of the lights in a from a slighty different perspective due to my different camera position, cropping the shots to show part hotspot and part spill, etc.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------

