# 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shots)



## LEDcandle (Mar 10, 2006)

*10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shots)*

After doing up a Polaris clone (50w MR16), I was looking for the next bulb to work on. Sticking to the same reason as to why I chose to do the Polaris (no need to find an alu reflector and mess with enlarging the hole for T3.5+ bulbs), I went in search for a bulb candidate.

I found the DDL bulb for projectors; 150w at 20v. That gave me an idea for a 4D Mag 150w light, which I now call the MagDDL150 or MagDDL "Starglobe". (Has someone else made a mod with this bulb yet?  Starglobe because the MR16 bulb lights up like a shining star when viewed from the back)

There was another bulb which was 150w 21v but that would be it out of range of a 4D mag 4bored. I could not find any lumen rating for the DDL, so it was a risk, but I was guessing at 150w, it should rock. (Some 250w bulbs are rated 900 lumens only while 100w ones like the 64625 go up to 3600)

So I went ahead and ordered a couple. 

The plan was to run 4 x 4 NiMh, fresh from the charger at around 22.4v. I thought the NiMh's would hold 1.2v under load and give me 19.2v to drive the DDL, but apparently under load they only put out around 16.5v. Current is about 6.5 amps. Still, the bulb shone ferociously (more in the litebox shootout below). It's more of a flooder (beam angle unknown) though and I wonder if I can transplant it into a 10º MR16 reflector. Obviously, it's underdriven and is actually only doing 115w. 

Some pics :-
DIY holder 






Took me days to make it and small calculation errors and poor workmanship caused a lot of problems with short circuiting. After dealing with the issue, I got it to run. At the back of the holder is a copper disc that contacts the Mag spring. The batts are not all forward facing like Modamag's great holders. They run up-down-up-down-up via the copper pole in the centre that contacts the mag switch spring (which is beefed up with a blob of solder encompassing it). 

No springs used in the batt holder. Nuts+Flat head screws with wires was used to make the connections. The pack is tightened by nuts at the top like awr's design, except I messed up one nut so it doesn't tighten that well. 

Batts used are Supreme Power 2300 AA found at CBP, supposedly rated at 10 amps. They are flat top batts though, so I had to use magnets, which would add to the resistance. But the magnets help keep my flimsy batt pack 'glued' together nicely. 

MagDDL parts





*Problems Encountered*
- A few machine shops I went to couldn't bore the mag for me as they didn't have the equipment, so I had to hand file it for hours and it's still not perfect.
- I had to strip all batts, and even with a thin masking tape, they were a little to thick for 4-across.
- I stripped the cells naked and sprayed them with pylox paint. They could fit with some squeeze now and at one point I was 95% done and everything was in place. But the light did not turn on and I had to disassemble it again. Apparently some problems with the switch area which I rectified. 
- But putting the painted batts back into the tight mag body caused the paint to come off due to repeated abrasion, and there was a serious short that heated up the whole body. I panicked and and rushed to extract the switch and knock the batts out. By that time, a few of them were sizzling and some magnets even lost their magnetism!! (I guess 80ºc!!)
- I'm not sure what is the condition of the other batts, but I'm prob gonna replace them all soon. I'm just trying to assemble everything together again to fire it up to make sure everything works. 
- The batts have been resprayed and the inside of the mag body has been sprayed too for extra insulation. 

[size=+1]The Litebox Shootout[/size]
To get approx lumens from my litebox, the formula is output lux divide by 3.76. This was based on a Fenix L1P on new AA batt being assumed to be 25 lumens. I got an output of 94 from the Fenix. 94/3.76 = 25. So far it seems quite accurate, as I get close to rated figures for other lights like SF P60 (85 lumens), P90 (126) and P91 (199). 

The 50w 12v mag when run on fresh batts is 16.6v without load and 14.4v under load (overdriven), which yields about 65w of power. Current is 4.5 amps. 

The 50watter gets a max of 6000-7000 (1600-1800 lumens) output on my litebox at the beginning, and settles down around 4900 (with lens and bezel on). I've used it quite a lot intermittently, so for today's test, it's prob running on halfway or almost depleted batts. 






Let's see : Without load, it's getting only 14.2v, and with load, prob 12ish. Batts are rewrapped Sanyo 2100s. 






In the pic, its getting only 3650. That's around 970 lumens. It has no lens and bezel on even, so I guess the batts are really finishing soon. I removed the lens and bezel so that it is a more accurate comparison to the DDL bulb. (Since this is neither Bulb nor Torch lumens, can I call it Reflector lumens? )

But nvm, since I know the 50w makes about 4900 (1300 lumens), let's see how the DDL fares! (Just for ref, my Brightstar HID makes 5090 (1350 torch lumens). 

Now for the DDL direct bulb comparo! 

Let's see those batteries charging up and getting ready to go :-





Weighing in at :-





And the setup, using my first DDL bulb (I bought 2) :-





And fire up DDL1!










What?? Only 8000 odd output max? I had previously tested one of my DDL bulbs before and I got well over 10000. It must either be the bulb, problems with my batt pack since the last time or the batts failing to hold up after the mishap. 

So I took the other DDL bulb and set it up :-





Yes!! This was the one I tested previously. Monstrous output! Such varying difference between bulbs from the same manufacturer. Previously I tried putting Alu foil behind to prevent stray lumens but the output figures remained almost the same, so I'm not going to try it this round.

edit : Just for comparo, here are the Brightstar 24w and Fenix :-




BS on original first round of batts, not 5090, as I stated earlier, but close at 4720, prob due to batts or setup variances.





Fenix on a brand new, 1.5v Duracell AA, having a slightly better day than previously. 

*Future plans*
- Try other brand of DDL bulbs
- Try to transplant this bulb into a 10º MR16 reflector or other alu reflector
- Make a MagDDL 5D to achieve the full Volts?? Can't imagine the max power if it's already doing this well now! (Either DDL1 is a lemon or DDL2 is a superachiever)

Took a lot of time on this project and writeup. Hope you guys enjoyed it! I'm still having problems setting it up into the mag body but once I do, I'll update. 

*Update : More voltage added! *
Decided to emulate a MagDDL 5D by adding batts. Went for 2 first :-





Then 4 which by estimation will run the bulb at full spec :-





Yikes!! It's a monster... a 5D solution will be spewing lumens. 133W of power (6.9A * 19.3V) spewing almost 6000 lumens. Wonder what if it's overdriven at 22-23v?? haha... 6D mag??

I won't be able to handbore a 5D/6D though cause my file doesn't reach deep enough even if I do it from top+bottom. The 4D is about the limit. Also, the thought of making another batt pack is...... demotivating. haha... but someday maybe!!

Update :-

Managed to squeeze in the batt pack and fire up the light!! Makes the 50watter look dim. 

Can't really capture good shot with my mobile phone cam, but here's a side by side shot :- (3 notches underexposed with the mobile phone setting)






Didn't manage to get any beamshots (yet) and am trying the batt pack insertion/removal. The beam is not a perfect hotspot, and has slight 'holes' in them, but it throws pretty far. It is comparable to the 50w which is a 10º! But just bigger and brighter in every way, just not such a nice beam.


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## LEDcandle (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: >MagDDL150-Starglobe< 150w 20v 4D Mag Mod (pic intensive) 4000-6000 lumens!*

Continued boring the mag body today for hours and hours...dang, its hard work. Removed the black paint from the batts as those were unreliable and rewrapped them.

After an entire day of fuss and muss, got the wrapped batts into the light. Very tight fit and extracting needs a lot of work. I'll prob have to continue filing the damn light. Those Supreme Power 2300s are prob thicker than the Sanyos! 

I bought them not only becuz they were rated for up to 10 amps but becuz their size was displayed as 13.97mm. Don't have verniers to check that out but with the original wrapper its a definite no-go.

Got an underexposed beamshot... ovallish with artifacts. Really gotta find a way to transplant this into a 10º reflector.






Put it in my litebox and its still churning out 11,400 odd output (approx 3000 lumens). 

Wonder if its safe to do a runtime test 

By the way, any high power incan users ever experience O-ring meltdown? I'm wondering how much can the o-rings around the mag take if a 100-200w bulb is left on for the full course of its batts and the light becomes too hot to touch. 

The borofloat can take the heat, but how about the lens o-ring? And the neck o-ring which is so close to the heat source?


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## winny (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

Good work!

I hope to see some cool outdoor beam shots from it soon.


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## LEDcandle (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

Not with my cameras :laughing:

Mobile phone cam and my girlfriend's cam which takes very bad night shots. I'll try to find some way or another to depict the power of the light.

Although in its current form, it doesn't throw all that far so it might not look all that powerful...


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## winny (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

Doesn't matter. Beam shots are always beam shots!
Get out there and light up a tree, a neighbour or something and take a picture of it!


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## 91101 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

LEDcandle,

Have you tried using a cylinder hone to bore out the Mag body? I would think that one designed for lawnmower sized engines would make short work of an aluminum mag body? Chuck it a cordless drill and run it slow I'm guessing that would save ya alot of time. I'm a noob here so take what I say with a grain of salt but it "sounds" like a good idea...

Michael


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## LEDcandle (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

I've been looking high and low for a long boring bit or something similar, but never was able to find anything suitable. I've even tried attaching round files onto the drill, which kinda worked, but my drill doesn't grip completely straight so the file didn't rotate on a central axis but instead spun like a fan.

I don't really know what kind of cylindrical hone you are talking about but I get the idea. Do you have any links or pics that could give me more idea? Is it specifically for a lawnmower? 

Thanks Michael!!

P/S Anyone has pics links to some kind of handheld cylindrical hone? My searches are turning up big machines 

What do you guys use to bore lights... a Lathe? A mill? with what bit? Think I'll post this question separately in the materials/machining forum.


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## Shaocaholica (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*



LEDcandle said:


> What do you guys use to bore lights... a Lathe? A mill? with what bit? Think I'll post this question separately in the materials/machining forum.


Seems like a mill would work really nicely if you could find a really long peice of tooling.


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## Mini-Moder (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

You need some pictures of you field testing that baby. I want to see it throw outside, in the real darkness. Very cool, I especialy like the battery holder. And man is it bright, you should try something similar but with a 6D.


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## LEDcandle (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

Shacaholica, yeah, if I had that long toolingi, I might be able to just use a handheld drill. I'm looking for the correct 'bit'.

Mini-Moder, thanks! The batt holder is a lot shoddier in real life :laughing: . I would love to do a 5 or 6D MagDDL but boring it is one thing and the other thing is I'd prob only carry a 4D max for practicality reasons. 5 or 6 is way too long. But at least we've seen what kind of output a 5D can have!


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## KevinL (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

Well done - that's a pretty fearsome light. I'm surprised the Sanyo cells can handle it - you might be radically shortening their lives, but I guess, such is the price of hotwire fun. Nothing wrong with sacrificing batteries and bulbs (I've become good at the latter - my USL destroyed five freaking bulbs alone) to the incandescent gods in the name of more lumens, just be prepared for the eventuality if it happens.

I'm surprised the Mag switch can handle it too. Any enhancements to the switch?


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## LEDcandle (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

Thanks Kevin. 

I'm using Supreme Power AAs 2300 in the Starglobe. The Sanyo 2100s are used in my 50w light. The SPAAs are supposedly rated for 10 amps, at least that's what's written on the site. 

Sanyos (at least the 2500s) hold up pretty well even at 10 amps as seen in Silverfox's shooutout, so I don't think there'll be any problems even if I use them in this light.

Not much done to the switch except some progold 
The rest of the contacts are beefed up here and there (no springs in batt holder, solder blob in the switch assembly spring, flattened head switch screw etc... 

I guess the switch mechanism might be the 'weak link', but seems to be holding up, at least for short bursts. I'm not sure about running it for 10-15 min though. Stuff might start to melt?? 

I guess I'll find out


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

Far out man!

In a past life I played around with 12-15 batteries against MR16s and saw some BRIGHT light!!!

I'm only a KIU socket or FM PR-Bi-Pin adapter from some more fun... but


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## 91101 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*



LEDcandle said:


> I've been looking high and low for a long boring bit or something similar, but never was able to find anything suitable. I've even tried attaching round files onto the drill, which kinda worked, but my drill doesn't grip completely straight so the file didn't rotate on a central axis but instead spun like a fan.
> 
> I don't really know what kind of cylindrical hone you are talking about but I get the idea. Do you have any links or pics that could give me more idea? Is it specifically for a lawnmower?
> 
> ...




Look here.. http://www.mytoolstore.com/kd/kdbrak08.html
The one at the bottom of the page is what I'm talking about. The pics aren't that good but you'll get the idea...


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## LEDcandle (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

Thanks 91101.. I posted in the materials forum and have found out more about these.


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## CLHC (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

Wow LEDcandle! Way to go— :wave:


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## LEDcandle (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

Hi CHC! Thanks! Wish I had your mag then I wouldn't need to bore this much.. haha...
Anyway, posted separately in the materials forum asking about cylindrical bores :-
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/110748

Great idea from Illuminated on making my own bit; why didn't I think of that. I don't have stainless steel rods at home but have some alu rods lying around, so I took one and cut it up to a nice length, then drilled a hole at one end and threaded it with a tap. 

I didn't have the right die size to thread by dremel bits but with some filing down of the shaft, they looked like they could be forced into the threaded hole. To ensure they were tight, I clamped the dremel bit on my vise, then loaded the alu rod onto the drill. placed the threaded hole end onto the dremel bit shaft and spun in slightly so the two got 'screw-locked' together. 






I don't know how good this will be to bore an entire mag, but it worked for smoothing out my hand-filed mag. My batts are a lil tight still becuz I din bore too much, but much better than b4. 

Another think I forgot was that D mags can usually fit an extra smaller batt (duh, my brain's not working too well), so I don't have to move to a 5D platform. I'm gonna switch to a Mag C tailspring and add another row of batts to get the proper voltage and all 6000 lumen goodness of this bulb. 

Also, am working on transplanting it into a narrower degree MR16 reflector. 
Initial tests show 9100 lux in original condition. (Btw, DDL bulb 1 (the weaker one) apparently has some blackened stuff inside, and is prob dying that's why it performed poorly. Didn't notice it earlier.)


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## LEDcandle (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: 4000-6000 lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive)*

Decided to upgrade to a 5 x 4 setup to run the bulb nearer 20v. 

Upgraded the batt pack :-





Batt pack without load :-





The Sanyo 2500s fit 4-across! Meaning those damn SPA2300s are fatter even after being stripped and rewrapped. But alas, with the batt pack the setup is too long :-






Usually a D size mag can take an extra battery's length of a smaller size, but that's if it's just the batts. Like 2D using 3Cs. But this has the batt pack which adds to the length. I can prob still reduce a few more mm, but it prob still won't make it. Also, my batt pack is too thick to fit within the tailcap. 

I am thinking of getting an extender done; just read about one done by modamag for another member. But if the insides of the extender are the same diameter as the tailcap, my batt pack prob won't fit. I need a "thin wall thread" extender which when screwed on to the mag, doesn't add any internal width. Let's see. 

Anyhow, wired it up just to fire the torch up. Here are some shots (disclaimer : taken with pathetic mobile phone cam. Totally unscientific and inconsistent, but tried my best to represent visual accuracy; as in this is roughly what you'll see) :-

Ceiling bounce comparo (in real life it's more obvious) :-





Lighting up a tree about 15' from my window :-













Can't do too far a shot due to camera restrictions and also because the DDL isn't a thrower (yet). With the new 5-row cell config, it puts out 19,000 max lux in stock form, compared to 9,100 when it was on 4-row. The Mag50w does 21,000 max lux with a 10º reflector. 

So I'm hoping a DDL transplant into a 10º should rock. A proper alu reflector would of course be best. Theoretically it should be more like the Mag100R if in an alu reflector. Not sure how the focus is gonna be like though, after the transplant. 

That's all for now! Will have to think about the extender or something else. If someone has an idea or can make a thin wall extender (I will ask modamag too), let me know. Thanks!


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## missionaryman (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: 4k-6k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shots)*

Great work - I'm all for over 100w hot wires. I really think you need more serious batteries than those however - CBP1650's or good quality A cells, you could only fit them 3 across but don't need as many to get the voltage.

You can get 15v 150w MR16 bulbs with smooth spot reflectors from Osram (you can find them on eBay by searching for 15v 150w but postage rip offs exist) and using high Current A cells in these you'll get more overdrive and more light. Rated at about 5600 lumen. *15V / 150W - Osram HLX 64634 *


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## LEDcandle (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: 4k-6k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shots)*

Hi missionaryman,

Thanks for the heads up. I did notice the 15v 150w but initially I was thinking the current would be too much. I guess the CBPs could handle them easily though, come to think of it. But not sure how much more the stock switch can take and I'm not an electronics guy, so I chose to avoid messing that deep. 

A 64634 with 5 x 3 CBPs would probably rock too though; maybe a variant for the future? Would need to rebuild a batt pack and order the bulb and batts. I think the results would be similar but maybe a straighter graph due to the CBPs load holding.

Thanks again!!


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## missionaryman (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: 4k-6k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shots)*

I was trying to remember what stopped me and you're right that's it - the current running through the switch. You could use one of CMAC's 10AMP tail cap switches and bypass the stock switch.

It would however get very hot.


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## LEDcandle (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: 4k-6k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated sh*

The SPA2300 batts weren't holding up long at all... although registering around 24v unloaded, they quickly sank to around 14v under load and the bulb was dimming.

I decided to swap in all Sanyos as these hold almost as well as CBP1650s according to Silverfox's shootout. 

Good 27.7v unloaded.






Fire up!!





DANG!! Holding at 21.1v, 7.2A (156w power!) overdriving this bulb, its churning out 10k lumens!! Started of even higher for a few secs. I doubt it'll hold here for long, but I think the Sanyos might be able to hold it at 18-19v, which is about 6k lumens. 

The result :-





Was so busy looking at the meter and taking photos till I smelt something burning!! Forgot that I'm putting a high power lamp on paper!! Heee.... phewf...

That's all for now...


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## KevinL (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: 4k-6k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated sh*

I've got new respect for the Sanyo cells under what can only be described as abusive conditions  but that's exactly what I need - equipment that can keep up with me, not the other way around. Are these the 2500mAH cells? I see some gold lettering. 

Where are the incandescent gods? bwaites? Ginseng? You guys need to see this!!


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## LEDcandle (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: 4k-6k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated sh*

Haha.. this is hardcore.
The nice looking ones are all 2500s, yup. The 4 yellow ones are rewrapped 2100s from my other torch. Don't have enough 2500s to make 20 

Now churning out 25,000 lux in stock form. That's 6,000 more lux of flood!


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## bwaites (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: 4k-6k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated sh*

I've been watching, but I have some of those Sanyo's and they won't hold that draw for more than a few minutes, (maybe 3) unless Sanyo has changed their chemistry.

It's a cool idea, but that's a BIG stick of cells and in a light the head is going to get incredibly hot, incredibly fast!!

I've run the Osram 250 watt, 24 volt lamp on this type of a setup, but the cells just can't handle it for long, even the 1650's. 

Bill


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## LEDcandle (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: 4k-6k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated sh*

Yeah, I read Bill had done 250watters, so this is nothing 
It's not a practical light at all, but just firing it up for a few secs is amazing! heh... 3 minutes sounds good enuff for a show light.

Can we wrap the torch in those grippy foam things or other insulator just so that we can hold it somewhat longer? Or does the light need to dissipate as much heat as possible?


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## bwaites (Mar 15, 2006)

*Re: 4k-6k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated sh*

If your going to wrap it, make sure it's some type of silicone cushion, regular foam will break down at the those temps.

BUT...The Mag body just isn't made for this kind of abuse. The USL and Osram 100 watt lamps are pushing the max hard. You need a bigger reflector and more space. The banana Vector lights are great for this kind of stuff.

Bill


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## Ginseng (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: 4k-6k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated sh*

Very nice!

Wilkey


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## LEDcandle (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*

Thanks Wilkey! The Polaris was the catalyst 

Managed to transplant the DDL bulb into a 10º MR16 reflector as planned. Process :-

1) Drilled out the orig. 50w bulb sitting in the 10º reflector with a 1mm bit; loosened the cement and eventually the bulb fell out. I damaged the leads but was planning on tossing the bulb anyway. So the reflector was now vacated. 

2) Practised vacating the DDL bulb on my semi-lemon DDL 1 but it was difficult, so I hammered and shattered the whole reflector and freed the bulb easily. Proceeded to do the same for DDL 2 which freed up the bulb. Proceeded to place the DDL bulb into the new reflector. 

3) The DDL bulb is bigger than the 50w that was sitting in the 10º, and didn't focus right at first due to it not sitting all the way in. The base being slightly bigger caused this. 

4) Used a grinding stone/drill to remove some of the base of the bulb, being very careful not to damage the leads or bulb. After some thinning, the bulb sat in well and low into the reflector. 

And here's the new beam! (heavily underexposed due to mobile phone limitations)





A shot with the same tree again (visual representation only) :-





compared to the old reflector :-





Much more focused as would be expected. It is now making 48,800 lux max vs 25,000 lux in the old reflector.


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## ICUDoc (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*

All I can say is:

WOW. Looks like a white-light LASER.
Sure makes a 5W LED mod look gentle.
Keep showing us the cool stuff-thanks!


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## Dr_Joe (Mar 20, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shots)*

Damn ! :goodjob: :rock:


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## HarryN (Mar 20, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shots)*

Nice work. Even us LED guys are impressed.


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## Handlobraesing (Mar 20, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*

Sorry to break this to you, but I think your'e WAY over-stating your lumen ratings.

http://genet.geappliances.com/Light...Halogen&subcat=L2-67&viewcode=IDS&chkView=IDS

That's a 10,000 lumen bulb and even using the IRC technology, it still takes 350W to make that much light.


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## LEDcandle (Mar 20, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*

DrJoe, HarryN, thanks guys  It takes an audience to put up a show, so your comments are always welcomed! 

Hi Handlobraesing, of course I know that's not accurate  This is all done in the name of fun; and my lightbox reads that amount, not me plucking out some imaginary figure from the sky :laughing: And of course I know its a $5 orange juice carton and not an Integrating Sphere so pls take this with a pinch of salt. 

As some of the others were saying in the 60lm/w thread (which I'm sure you're familiar with), the CCT and other factors probably gave a higher reading. Also, a lightbox isn't that accurate.

In the lower end though, it *appears* to be quite close. I've gotten figures that are close to what others have tested with their lightbox or reliable manufacturer claims like :-

P60 - 85 lumens
P90 - 126 (on 2 x R123a)
P91 - 199 (on 2 x R123a)
Arcmania X-bin 5w - 233
KL3 - 34
Police light with 8w bulb - 126 
etc....

Anyhow, another 150w bulb, the 64634, mentioned by missionaryman in this thread is rated by manufacturer (Osram) for 5600 lumens (Mine's overdriven so I expect a little more). There are no specs on the DDL bulb I could find, so who knows what kind of light its putting out. 

It's also hard to base light output just on Watts alone (even though theoretically power is supposed to represent the brightness); when I was looking at 250watters (24v or so), most of them were only rated for 700-900 lumens! While the 100w can go up to almost 4000. 

Anyway, I don't really mind if my light isn't 10k but *only* 6-7k. It's still fun


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## Handlobraesing (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*



LEDcandle said:


> Anyhow, another 150w bulb, the 64634, mentioned by missionaryman in this thread is rated by manufacturer (Osram) for 5600 lumens (Mine's overdriven so I expect a little more). There are no specs on the DDL bulb I could find, so who knows what kind of light its putting out.
> 
> It's also hard to base light output just on Watts alone (even though theoretically power is supposed to represent the brightness); when I was looking at 250watters (24v or so), most of them were only rated for 700-900 lumens! While the 100w can go up to almost 4000.
> 
> Anyway, I don't really mind if my light isn't 10k but *only* 6-7k. It's still fun




37.3 lm/W is suspiciously high and I question where you got the "5600 lumens" claim, because it isn't given on the Osram site. the site says the lamp is 15V 150W with 50hrs life.

With a life rating of 50 hrs, a projector lamp like this is already "overdriven" compared to general application tungsten and these burn at 100-200K higher temperature. 

Attempt to further over-drive a lamp like this would easily result in an extremely fragile lamp (i.e. slighest bump and poof) or a lamp that only last an hour.


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## LEDcandle (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*

Erm well, that wasn't my claim of lumens, it was stated by missionaryman and I believed he had read/checked it up somewhere.

Edit : Osram documentation doesn't have it so I don't know how servicelighting got the figure :- http://www.servicelighting.com/catalog_product.cfm?prod=SL54039&link_p=Sylvania-light-bulb-54039 (64633 bulb tho; tink its a variation)

Another reason I chose the DDL its because its a 500 hour life bulb, not 50. The 64634 apparently is a 50 hr, and apparently the 62138 in the Mag100R is only 25 hrs while the 64625 is 50 hrs. There are no lumen ratings on the DDL as I've proclaimed, and I am only basing it on the lightbox. 

Well anyway, I'm not trying to sell the light or anything, so why keep harping on the figure? That's what my Fenix-calibrated lightbox tells me and I'm just posting it here. I didn't swear on my life that its nothing-but-the truth or try to sell the light for $500 or something. 

The fact is you shine a brighstar 24w HID (bezel n lens on tho) in it and you get 4000 odd output and you shine the DDL bulb (no bezel n lens) and you get 38000 (+/- whatever variances, let's say even 30-40% margin of error; it's still 6-7k lumens). The BS24 is rated 1500-1700 lumens by manufacturer, which is prob BS (Brightstar = BS? haha)... but its gotta be at least 1k. Look at it and you'll know. 

And if this light is putting out close to 10 times its amount, give and take errors, its still putting out a helluva light.

I don't know how other brands of DDL bulbs perform but if someone has the chance/time/equipment (IS!), maybe they can do a lumen test of some of the high power 100w and above bulbs. 

Chill man; the search for truth is always a good thing, but sometimes things should just be taken with a pinch of salt too, esp when done in the name of fun.


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## falconz (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*



LEDcandle said:


> Well anyway, I'm not trying to sell the light or anything, so why keep harping on the figure? That's what my Fenix-calibrated lightbox tells me and I'm just posting it here. I didn't swear on my life that its nothing-but-the truth or try to sell the light for $500 or something.
> 
> Chill man; the search for truth is always a good thing, but sometimes things should just be taken with a pinch of salt too, esp when done in the name of fun.



Well said! Keep this project up! It's always interesting to see people break a new boundary in custom portable lighting


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## KevinL (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*

OK, the project has now been blessed by the two incandescent gods.  You may carry on.. 

Wish there was a more accurate way of determining the lumens though. What about stock bulb lumens and a rerating formula?


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## bwaites (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*

I'm beginning to wonder if the light boxes have some kind of inherent limitation at high light levels.

It seems that the light meters are over saturating or giving readings that just don't jive with what has been published about the limitations of incandescent bulbs.

Osram publications state that 37 Lumens/watt is the practical limit on lamps, with 42 Lumens/watt being theoretically possible. 

Now we are seeing readings that are out of those limits. 

Either Osram is wrong, OR, more than likely, we are using the meters in a way they were never intended. Most of the meters we are using were designed for industrial applications, to test ambient light and make sure there was sufficient lighting for the task at hand. 

So far as I know, they ARE NOT designed as we use them, to check direct beam or light box lux and then extrapolate lumens. 

But as someone in another thread pointed out, who am I to try to figure it out?

KevinL, unfortuanately, from what we can tell, the re-rating formulas are good to about 10% or MAYBE 20% overdrives, then all bets are off.

Along with that, you have to know the baseline figures to work from. Some 100 watt bulbs put out only 900 lumens, others 4000!!

Bill


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## LEDcandle (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*

Thanks for the support Falconz!! 

I'd prob put my bet on Osram that they're right and that the lightbox is wrong 
I too believe at high light levels, the sensor just goes crazy. I don't believe the MagDDL is actually 10k lumens, but I'm just making a "factual" statement based on the readings, instead of plucking out numbers from the air, esp. since there are no manufacturer ratings of the DDL bulb at all. 

I do hope its at least pushing 5-7k lumens, but prob closer to low 5s if we are to go by the 37 lm/w limit. Still a decent amt of light I would say


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## bwaites (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*

Somethings up with the meters, I think.

10585 lumens at 156 watts is nearly 68 Lumens/watt, close to the same numbers that another CPF'er got with a completely different lamp.

Interesting that with two different lamps, pushed at much different levels, that you got similar Lumen/watt figures, though!

I've got to think that that meters just aren't up to the challenge, or that something has happened since Osram's info was published to allow the filaments to be pushed harder. 

Another problem may be the formula, which might hold at lower levels, but be increasingly off at higher ones.

Bill


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## LEDcandle (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*

Yeah, prob with that amount of light shining into the box, the Lux reaching the meter (it is a lux meter after all) is disproportionately higher and the figures shoot through the roof. 

With lower level lights, the paper shield and box internals prob diffuse the lights evenly enough for a fair comparison. 

We need a series of IS tests with all the high powered tungsten halogens (and maybe some of 'em metal halides) to see if the limits are really true


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## KevinL (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: 10k lumens! "MagDDL150-Starglobe" 150w-20v 4D MagMod (pic intensive; updated shot*



bwaites said:


> KevinL, unfortuanately, from what we can tell, the re-rating formulas are good to about 10% or MAYBE 20% overdrives, then all bets are off.



So much for mathematical modelling.. simple linear formulas just don't work in a completely nonlinear world.


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