# Nuwai Q3 TM-303X Cree XR-E Mod



## mosport (Nov 17, 2006)

Spent some time messing around with P2 bin XRE's trying to figure out the focus and came up with this budget mod using the stock reflector. The only previous mod needed is an upgraded heatsink with platform. Either the machined copper/aluminum ones, homemade $1.02 plumbing copper type or soldered pennies on stock aluminum ring will work fine as long as there's an platform to attach the emitter. If the heatsink has been upgraded, then your light has been dismantled before and you'll already be familliarized for these following steps.

To enlarge the opening for the XRE to pass through, the reflector was removed from the bezel and filed down in a bench vise until the step was almost flush, then deburred to remove any aluminum shavings. I stopped filing as soon as the hole was large enough for the XRE to fit inside, but might try removing more material to experiment with the focal point.



 



With the Q3's reflector threaded into the top bezel piece, it doesn't need to touch or rest on the emitter. This allows for up/down adjustment of the emitter - reflector focal point  

Next step was to make a foam donut for the heatsink underside, punched these out of furniture pads from a dollar store (3/4" OD) and attached. With this piece acting as a simple spring between the driver board and heatsink, the retaining ring can control the emitter to reflector height for tuning focus. The purpose of the foam donut is to also add height since it was originally made for use with a Luxeon star (also great because I'm lazy and don't feel like making another heatsink that's taller  ). I epoxied the XRE directly to the copper this time around (underside contacts isolated with a paint pen). Also had to make another insulator from a thin piece of plastic to rest between the metal ring and the grounded metal reflector to avoid shorting out the +ve emitter wire.



 

 



Here's the results using a FLuPIC on burst mode @ +1A current, beamshot taken approx 2m from wall with white balance locked. There's a small crescent shaped shadow barely visable at 5 o'clock where the hotspot blends into the corona, hopefully this can be tuned out by playing with the emitter position. Throw is improved over the previous U-bin setup and spill is much stronger than before, making this a nice pocket rocket (sorry for the subjective descriptions, wish I had a luxmeter for comparisons!). This one will mostly be used as a bike headlight mounted with a TwoFish Lockblock.




 



Hope this mod is useful to all the Q3 owners out there, should work equally well with 2 stage switch setups on the original driver and 123 primaries.


-----------
Added Info:

Disassembled again to add more Arctic Silver and measured the height for my beam setting.

Total height from driver board to emitter platform is 11.45mm inclusive. The FLuPIC accounts for 1.30mm, please adjust add/subtract according to your driver board's thickness. If using a star or round base, that will need to be subtracted as well. 

Also installed is a 22.2 x 1.5mm mineral lens with o-ring. The original plastic lens is the same thickness, but I think the new o-ring might be slightly taller. Minor adjustments may be required for your setup.
-----------

Happy modding :rock: 

Derek


----------



## mosport (Nov 17, 2006)

Here's the comparison with a stock HDS B42 on max (left).


----------



## Ganp (Nov 17, 2006)

Hi Derek..:goodjob: looks like this is nicely focused and should throw well.

If you'r taking this MTBing off-road I'd be interested to know if you get enough spill, or are you combining it with something more floody? 

Colin.


----------



## Gnufsh (Nov 17, 2006)

Sounds nice! Do you think the same mode and heatsinks would work with the "Big Q3?"


----------



## Manzerick (Nov 17, 2006)

I would say the Big QIII will be just fine..

AWESOME MOD!


----------



## Anglepoise (Nov 17, 2006)

Nice mod. How did you handle the clearance from the base of the sanded down reflector to the top of the XR-E? The top electrical contacts when soldered to the leads must nearly touch the base of the reflector. 
Interested how you handled this.


----------



## chimo (Nov 17, 2006)

Derek, nice job! You beat me to it. I have a similar mod planned. I checked out the Q3 reflector last night with the XR-E and it looked pretty good. 

Paul


----------



## jar3ds (Nov 17, 2006)

dang... very nice... a flu-pic'd q3 with an XR-E....


----------



## mosport (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks everyone 

Focus is almost there Ganp, it's free from any visible artifacts but could benefit from minor tuning to get everything spot on. With the weather getting colder I'm not on the bike as much anymore, this setup will be my main light for sprinting around and the FLuPIC is great for adjustable brightness settings. For very dark trails there should be sufficient throw and side spill for quick riding, but maybe I should build an XRE clustered bikelight combining flood and spot beams over the winter? If the weather is dry this weekend I'll take some trail pics, just wish the grass and leaves weren't brown because WG or V1 tint would work best on green.

The big Q3 aka mother should be just moddable Gnufsh, just be careful if using two R123's with a FLuPIC since the voltage will be too high.

You're right Anglepoise, clearance is very tight between the XRE top pads and reflector underside! To avoid shorting out, cut up a plastic package's window into a small piece approximately the dia of a AAA battery, then made a hole with a metal punch. This slips over the XRE metal ring snugly to cover up the electrical contacts from grounding on the metal reflector. Try to use the thinnest rigid plastic available, also considered using clear nailpolish to coat the reflector underside but nixed that idea. 

Looks like Nitroz beat us both Paul, he's already put his DD Cree XRE mod up for sale too! Hope you'll show us the finished mod when ready, your work is always top notch. 

Once the sweet spot is dialed in exactly, I'll measure and cut up the stock aluminum spacer ring to replace the foam riser. Can't wait for the Q bins to arrive for some more modding...  :naughty:

Derek


----------



## Anglepoise (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks for the extra details. 
The QIII reflector is one of my favorites and IMHO is a great balance. I am delighted in the fact that it works with the XR-E.

These reflectors come up for sale from time to time and it is well worth getting a few for future projects.


----------



## TranquillityBase (Nov 17, 2006)

Excellent!

I've been waiting for someone to try the Nuwai Cree upgrades, I have two of the XR-E's with the circular base. It looks like this will be a direct fit, just a height adjustment, and reflector mod...Is my thinking correct, and can I use a bone stock Q-3 or Big-Q driver?

TB


----------



## mosport (Nov 17, 2006)

My pleasure David,

Others will also fit but you're right about the original reflector producing a smooth beam with nice hotspot size. Figured I could mess around with the stock one for free, if unsuccessful I could replace it with IMS 20mm, McR19 or McR20... but glad I don't have to!


----------



## Nitroz (Nov 17, 2006)

mosport said:


> Thanks everyone
> 
> Looks like Nitroz beat us both Paul, he's already put his DD Cree XRE mod up for sale too! Hope you'll show us the finished mod when ready, your work is always top notch.
> 
> ...



I can't wait to get some Q3 LEDs and my piglet board from Goldserve to mod my other Nuwai QIII.

The direct drive QIII puts out alot of light for such a small light, mine pulls 1.1amps from a fresh battery and runs about 1hr and 10 minutes before dimming. I also changed the stock reflector with an IMS20 for an even tighter spot.

Nice work mosport!


----------



## xochi (Nov 17, 2006)

I just got finished modding my B42 with a Cree XR-E p3 and after modding and testing mcr-20, 18 , IMS20 , aluminum replacement reflector from multilevel chinese light and Q3 reflector. The Q3 reflector is hands down the best as Mosport has discovered. For all practical purposes I can't tell that the light isn't running a luxeon!


----------



## Anglepoise (Nov 17, 2006)

TranquillityBase said:


> Excellent!
> 
> I've been waiting for someone to try the Nuwai Cree upgrades, I have two of the XR-E's with the circular base. It looks like this will be a direct fit, just a height adjustment, and reflector mod...Is my thinking correct, and can I use a bone stock Q-3 or Big-Q driver?
> 
> TB



TB
You should have no problem using the QIII electronics with the XR-E.


----------



## TranquillityBase (Nov 18, 2006)

Anglepoise said:


> TB
> You should have no problem using the QIII electronics with the XR-E.


 Thanks David...Do you know the drive level of the Q-3 circuit? I have two XR-E's from cmacclel, and the tint is really nice with these two Cree's...I can tell they need more juice though...I tested both leds with a BBGN 400, and it's not quite enough current for my liking. 

TB


----------



## Anglepoise (Nov 18, 2006)

TranquillityBase said:


> Thanks David...Do you know the drive level of the Q-3 circuit? I have two XR-E's from cmacclel, and the tint is really nice with these two Cree's...I can tell they need more juice though...I tested both leds with a BBGN 400, and it's not quite enough current for my liking.
> 
> TB



I am not 100% certain on this, but I believe the QIII has gone through a couple of board changes since its introduction. My unit is a very early example and I use a unprotected 700ma Rechargeable. When installed just off the charger at 4 volts, I believe my driver is unregulated and delivers just under 1 amp to the LED. As the voltage drops, a rather unsophisticated voltage regulator kicks in.

I probably have this all wrong, so someone please correct me if so......


----------



## LumenHound (Nov 18, 2006)

The older Q3's that had the reverse clickie drove the emitters at around 450-500mA when powered by a 3.0 volt primary, while the newer Q3 that has the tactical clickie and different Vsense resistor drives the emitter up around 700mA on a 3.0 volt primary battery. 

Chimo started a thread about the change of the Q3 driver boards back in August of last year. 
You can find that thread with pictures of the different boards here.


----------



## mosport (Nov 18, 2006)

Nitroz and TB, are you guys planning on using one of those machined sammie holders in the Q3? I've been thinking of picking up one of H22A's threaded adaptors to play with, after using the FLuPIC on burst mode I don't think I'd be satisfied with 400mA either :naughty: 

Boards are pictured top to bottom, from oldest to most recent. Here's another small Q3 board difference, looks like some newer layout boards have the older inductor coil. The one pulled from my light is the current version with the stubby inductor. Factory probably wanted to use up all their old parts stock during the changeover.


----------



## Nitroz (Nov 18, 2006)

mosport,
I am not sure what I am going to do with my other QIII yet. I have another project in the works that will be using the piglet board.


----------



## Ganp (Nov 21, 2006)

Hi Derek - It seems like your mod' is coming along well. I'm getting good results with a modded McR27LT, but I do not think the beam is as smooth as yours.

Looking forward to seeing some outdoor beamshots if you get the chance.  

Colin.


----------



## TranquillityBase (Nov 21, 2006)

I would like use the stock Q-3 board...I have some XR-E's that are mounted to the round board/sink, and I use a 17670 cell. This seems like the easiest was for me to do the mod...Just a new spacer ring once final height is determined.

TB


----------



## mosport (Nov 21, 2006)

Haven't forgotten about you Colin, just been running instead of riding lately so hope these backyard beamshots will give a good representation of the spill. Over the weekend I tweaked the focus slightly by tightening the retaining ring to push the heatsink a little lower, right now the top of the XRE ring is level with the stock Q3 reflector lip for a large hotspot with wide flood. Good news is that the small crescent shaped shadow around the corona isn't visible anymore!

The first light is the HDS B42 from the first set of pics on Max brightness, compared against the P2 bin XRE on FLuPIC burst mode.










If the retainer ring is adjusted to raise the XRE up into reflector, it results in a smaller more intense spot with excellent throw but much reduced sidespill and slight donut surrounding the hotspot. Flood is more useful on a bike, so I simply re-focused back by tightening the retainer. This trick only lasts for so long, after being compressed the foam looses it's ability to spring back so I'll try to find an expansion spring that's the right diameter.

Tranquility Base, I'll take apart to add more thermal grease onto the heatsink and will measure the height for you as well.


Another comparison from the park...


----------



## Paul6ppca (Jan 17, 2007)

How much taller should the heatsink be for the cree star ?Stock 6.6 mm so how much should I add?

Thanks,
Paul

PS Ill be making it tonight!


----------



## mosport (Jan 17, 2007)

Don't have any mounted XRE's, nor could I find a spec sheet for the EGT MCPCB... but here's what will work. 

Measure the XRE star thickness and subtract that from the 10.15mm heatsink height, you might have to play with the focus slightly since a thicker o-ring and mineral glass lens combination were used.

Can someone confirm XRE star thickness for us?

HTH,

Derek


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 17, 2007)

mosport said:


> Can someone confirm XRE star thickness for us?



I compared Lux 3 star vrs. XR-E P4 star, and the height to base of the dome on the Luxeon was 0.1mm higher than the same place on the Cree. The Cree star is thinner (kind of like a Lux1, but I didn't take down that measurement), but then the metal ring adds it back up to the same height to base of dome. BUT, the Cree die height is way lower inside. Instead of ~at the base of the dome, it is down in a hole below the base of dome. So it will fit in the same place as a Luxeon III, just won't focus the same without the reflector being opened up around the ring, then dropped down some.


----------



## Paul6ppca (Jan 17, 2007)

Xre star 1mm


----------



## Nake (Jan 17, 2007)

I took some measurements with a pin micrometer. I didn't have a LuxIII so I used a Lux5. the Cree star is .060" thick and the Lux is .100". From the bottom of the Cree star to the top of the little square is .095". To hard to measure to the base of the domes but putting a straight edge across both at the bases the level appeared to be even.


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 17, 2007)

Nake said:


> I took some measurements with a pin micrometer. I didn't have a LuxIII so I used a Lux5. the Cree star is .060" thick and the Lux is .100". From the bottom of the Cree star to the top of the little square is .095". To hard to measure to the base of the domes but putting a straight edge across both at the bases the level appeared to be even.


0.06" = 1.52mm which sounds about what I remember. Lux then = 2.54mm.

I measured the height to base of domes with calipers, 3.7 and 3.8mm if I remember correctly.


----------



## mosport (Jan 17, 2007)

Thanks Nake!

0.060" = 1.52mm that you'll need to subtract from 10.15mm to compensate for the star. Since everything is in focus at 10.15mm emiter style heatsink height, it should remain so after the star is accounted for. 

Take extra care centering the XRE within the reflector, you can't always trust the LED to be mountd perfectly on the star.

Good luck!


----------



## Paul6ppca (Jan 17, 2007)

so I figure 9.63mm for the height of the heatsink,then with the star,Ill be at 10.15 and focus should be close.
Where did you come up with 10.15 mm for good focus?Was it trial and error?

Thanks

All parts made,Ill do final measurements and a test fit then solder it togeater!


----------

