# Why do we always reccomend dim lights with long runtime during outage?



## D-Dog (Dec 17, 2008)

I understand conserving power is important, however, does it really hurt things to run a fenix/other multi-level at say medium instead of low?

I also understand that your eyes adjust to the lower light, however, one brighter light in the middle of the room with a diffuser could be sufficient for a whole room or two. 

Not to mention the fact that I have seen pictures of numerous people on CPF filling up entire ammo boxes with batteries... I'm sure running through a pair every day won't kill the battery bank. Heck, if your using ni-mh/li-ion rechargeables first, you might not lose any batteries at all as all you have to do is recharge after the outage.

So why do we the "different" people choose to conserve like the common man while we aren't stuck with stock [email protected]?


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## Yoda4561 (Dec 17, 2008)

Having had to deal with 3 weeks with no power with no idea when it would be restored, in sunny florida mind you, and the lack of supplies/batteries that a major natural disaster tends to cause, the LAST thing you want to worry about is trying to ration light usage because you're worried about running out of batteries. A malkoff M60LL is 80 lumens, that's LOTS of light, and at 8 hours of runtime you may very well get through the whole 2 weeks of no power with just one pair of batteries, and if they do run out the 20 extras you have sitting around will be plenty, and then some. When all the power for 30 miles around is out, it doesn't take much to see. I took showers in the evening using a green photon II with a single 2032 battery as my main light source, it was plenty of light. Something like a fenix on low and tailstanding would be overkill, and there's no worry about not having high power when you need it in an emergency (bumps in the night, looters, animals coming in through the broken windows).


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## sappyg (Dec 17, 2008)

this reminds me of the parable of the ant and the grasshopper. 
plus, the more i use my lights the more i appreciate low or low low.


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## Gatsby (Dec 17, 2008)

It's an interesting question really when you consider how much actual light you need during a power outage that lasts a few days. You sleep for some portion of the dark hours, and daylight ought to do OK for most of the waking hours, so you're talking about, what 5 hours a night or so plus some spot usage? So a MagLED 3D on fresh batteries will get you through 4 days or so and provide a pretty good amount of light. Heck my Novatac on low will run for 30+ days constant on a fresh CR123 primary and if I need much more burn time than that I likely have much bigger issues at hand and better break out the zombie plans... 

But I think what is in most of our minds, or at least mine, is the variability factor - I don't know how long the power will be out, or how much light I might need given other emergencies, etc... Plus some of us have kids so a small amount of light to run all night as a night light and to help with late night potty trips is beneficial. It's probably overkill in most respects, but there is a certain comfort in knowing I can pull out a 3D mag with a NiteIze drop in and run it almost indefinitely on fresh cells. And FWIW I don't keep a huge supply of batteries on hand - I have a reasonable supply of slow discharge AAs and backup charged 18650 for the CL1H and CR123 for the Novatac but certainly not weeks worth - so conservation does become something of an issue.


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## D-Dog (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks for the quick responses 

I guess I just thought that it was odd that we as CPF members certainly have atypical lights when compared to other members of the general public, yet we don't run them above what we need. However, a 60LL is exactly what I had in mind... not too much light but enough to light up a room or two if need be. I think you would be alright with a fenix on low though... more than enough runtime to last over a week on one set of batteries.

Why the general public is different-
Last night a friend of mine was using my M20 on max to spot a patch of trees to find out if any freezing rain was falling. He was impressed, said "nice [email protected]"(because it really looks like one ) and proceeded to shoot himself in the eye before I could stop him...


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## OceanView (Dec 17, 2008)

D-Dog said:


> ...and proceeded to shoot himself in the eye before I could stop him...


LOL! Gets 'em every time!


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## Stereodude (Dec 17, 2008)

D-Dog said:


> I understand conserving power is important, however, does it really hurt things to run a fenix/other multi-level at say medium instead of low?


Why be wasteful? You don't know how long the outage will last. Just because I have bright lights doesn't mean I break out my HID to light up the bathroom when I take a shower. I use enough light to accomplish the task.

Do you use your brightest light on the brightness setting to get around your house at night?


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## D-Dog (Dec 17, 2008)

OceanView said:


> LOL! Gets 'em every time!



Wow that light is really bright... I'd better look into it just to make sure though


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## bunbut (Dec 17, 2008)

I actually just asked for recommend me for dim lights with very loooooong run time. I already got the Markoff 4D, Mag85, and TLE300M. They all are very bright and fun. I have small children and old parents in the house. I need something small for everyone in the house, and since I don't have full cases of batteries, and don't know how long the power going to be out. I need something will have loooooong runtime.

I guess I just worry too much, but that's just me.


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## D-Dog (Dec 17, 2008)

bunbut said:


> I actually just asked for recommend me for dim lights with very loooooong run time. I already got the Markoff 4D, Mag85, and TLE300M. They all are very bright and fun. I have small children and old parents in the house. I need something small for everyone in the house, and since I don't have full cases of batteries, and don't know how long the power going to be out. I need something will have loooooong runtime.
> 
> I guess I just worry too much, but that's just me.



nah... I think it is a legitimate concern as you don't know how long the power is going to be out and as was mentioned before, batteries aren't the easiest to come by during an extended outage. 

Case and point- I have something called the Xpower 300 from Xantrex which is basically a 20Ah battery and a 300 watt inverter in a case. I always have it topped off, however, when an actual power outage occurs, I am hesitant to use it because although you can charge a lot of cell phones/batteries/even run a laptop off a 200+Wh battery, you don't want to waste power early on. 

Still, with lights, for me at least, it is a little different. I find that if use lights which I consider "too" dim, the color rendition is so "greyscaleish"... it's depressing. On the other hand, even running a fenix on low (probably 6-10 lumens) gives a much more "cozy" feel to an otherwise dark house. 

Just a thought


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## paulr (Dec 17, 2008)

Once you are a little dark adapted, even a very dim light is enough to light a fair sized room when bounced off the ceiling. Not light enough to read by, but enough to see other people and furniture in the room and not bump into things. It is handy to be able to leave a light running in that situation, but I'd say not really vital most of the time. I had several lights with me during the big east coast blackout a few years back, the most useful of them being a 3 lumen Arc AAA.


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## M.S (Dec 17, 2008)

Bright lights are good for morale, especially if there are women and children in the house. Only few hours every night of course...
In really long term survival situation you don't need lights, at least here in Finland. It never gets dark during the summer and in the winter you need to have fire almost constantly burning.


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## Marduke (Dec 17, 2008)

1) If the power is out, there is no light pollution. It takes very little light to light up a room sufficiently. 5-10lms is really all you need, sometimes less.

2) You don't know how long the power will be out. It could be 2 hours, it could be 2 weeks. It depends on your usage and just how large of a stockpile you have.


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## Cydonia (Dec 17, 2008)

Marduke said:


> 1) If the power is out, there is no light pollution. It takes very little light to light up a room sufficiently. 5-10lms is really all you need, sometimes less.
> 
> 2) You don't know how long the power will be out. It could be 2 hours, it could be 2 weeks. It depends on your usage and just how large of a stockpile you have.




The other thing most overlook is the fact *you don't want to attract attention* to your house by having bright lights visible from outside. 
Think about it...


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## Stereodude (Dec 17, 2008)

Cydonia said:


> The other thing most overlook is the fact *you don't want to attract attention* to your house by having bright lights visible from outside.
> Think about it...


You must live in a rough neighborhood. :candle:


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## Illum (Dec 17, 2008)

you never know how long your going to be out:thinking:
you are never certain about how much juice is left in the batteries
you are never certain about the runtimes bright lights seem to claim:thinking:
you will never be certain whether or not you can find your spare cells in an emergency:shakehead
you will never realize how well a dim light works in a dark room compared to a bright light in a dark room until all the streetlights go out. I sort of swear by dim lights after a couple outages:laughing:
you don't need the extra attention from your neighbors, once I was showering in the middle of the light when the power went out. I was cycling my N30 HID on the table while I was in the stall so I didn't notice anything was amiss, until my neighbor rang the doorbell a couple times then rapped on my window to ask if they can plug an extension chord on a outside receptacle of my house so they can finish watching their movie


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## GaryM (Dec 17, 2008)

Cydonia said:


> The other thing most overlook is the fact *you don't want to attract attention* to your house by having bright lights visible from outside.
> Think about it...



Is it illegal to shoot over bait where you live? :devil:


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## Juggernaut (Dec 17, 2008)

The power outage nuts around here” I know there are a few” like having lights that will last for many, many days but rather have crazy power during outages, still with good run time:twothumbs. 



Stereodude said:


> Do you use your brightest light on the brightness setting to get around your house at night?


 
I for one, do:devil: “insert manically laughing smiley that I can’t find” Though for serious power during an outage you can’t typically use normal carry lights in my opinion this is were the specialty lights come in to play:naughty:. My weapons of choice are: Bigbeam 166 “_16 lumens for 16 hours X 4 batteries =64 hours_” in bathroom, and I’ll strategically place my 12 watt emergency light “300 lumens for 18 hours X 5 batteries (90 hours:thumbsup and the BigBeam 1000 Ultra Mod (either): 22_ lumens for 750 hours or 650 lumens for 6 hours X 22 batteries =_ * 22,000 hours! "low 15 lumens" low* or *72 hours high* respectfully! And that’s not even using auxiliary power “insert another *333*+ hours of low” it’s not my problem I like over doing things…….

The Kings of Power Outages:bow:


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## Stereodude (Dec 17, 2008)

Personally I break out the Coleman lanterns after a while. Then you can have it really bright and leave it on for a really long time. oo:


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## Sgt. LED (Dec 17, 2008)

I always have a long term power outage in mind. It goes back to early childhood when the power was out all the time in the winter. We would thumbtack blankets over the doors to the room that our woodstove was in and let the faucets drip so the pipes didn't freeze. We lived in that room and cooked on the woodstove, trips to the bathroom were pretty cold. Coleman lanterns are great for the bathroom, heat and light! Things like that stick with you luckily.

It just makes sense to have at least 1 light that is bright enough to get you safely through your house for as long as possible on whatever it uses as a power supply. The M60LL would be considered almost too bright and too short running to be the primary illuminator. 

I am trying to gear towards 1000 hours of useable light on 2 CR123. Useable in this case means that I can navigate fully unhampered with dark adapted vision through the entire room that the light is in. 

My little fantasy is to be the last man on earth with a flashlight still running long after TEOTWAWKI. :tinfoil: Even if that means a 5mm led running off of car batteries.


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## wacbzz (Dec 17, 2008)

Almost the very first thing I see people bringing up on this thread is the length of time that the power may be out. In this case, I see it very beneficial, like most that have posted here, to have a light/lights that run on low lumens for a long time. My lightwave Tec3000 is perfect for this scenario. 

I am wondering, however, how long people typically stay up past the point of darkness to actually use the lights. Seriously. With no tv, no computers, nothing electric, I am assuming that most people would essentially call it a night when it gets really dark out. Especially during an extended outage. The first night - woohoo, get the friends over, party, blah, blah, blah. After that... Any thoughts?


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## kramer5150 (Dec 17, 2008)

reasons to recommend a long running, lower output, single mode light for emergencies.

-battery life
-reliability of a single mode operation/circuit. Multi-mode circuits have been known to fail from time to time.
-inexpensive, you can have 3-4 E01 or IU for the price of one higher cost light
-Some DC-DC circuits exhibit a small degree of current/battery drain even while off. Lights such as this should be avoided.
-Its not a must have, but I think a bomb-proof switch would be preferable (be-it a twisty, clicky or otherwise), one with a lock out feature would be really nice.

If one can afford it, a multi-mode light with long running low mode would be ideal... preferably one with a track record of reliability (Novatac and Zebralight come to mind immediately). Its left to the operator to use discipline not to burn through battery supplies with the higher modes.


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## nikon (Dec 17, 2008)

Flashaholics are extremists by nature. Going for long runtime is as much fun to many of us as is going for brightness. Kind of like those drivers whose hobby it is to get the most mileage as possible froma gallon of gas. 

And did you ever notice how quiet and peaceful it gets when the power goes out? Why ruin that with bright lights?


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## Juggernaut (Dec 17, 2008)

Sgt. LED said:


> My little fantasy is to be the last man on earth with a flashlight still running long after TEOTWAWKI. :tinfoil: Even if that means a 5mm led running off of car batteries.


 
Hmmmm, it appears I have some competition:wave:.


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## Alan_P (Dec 17, 2008)

There are a lot of lights that will overheat if you run them on hight and do not hold them in your hand or cool then by other means. When you loose power for a long time you will probably not want to hold the flashlight for the duration.


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## NightTime (Dec 17, 2008)

D-Dog said:


> [...] does it really hurt things to run a fenix/other multi-level at say medium instead of low?


 
I'll answer your question. 

I wonder how long I can last using my Olight T25 Regular on low (Level 1 - 6 lumens) during a blackout. 6 lumens is way enough to see. Here is what I have at home:

12 x L91
4 x NiMh batteries (2650 mAh)
12 x NiMh batteries (2500 mAh)
20 * alkalines

Some facts:
The L91 are fresh and I can get ~135 hours of runtime with 2 of them.
Lets say my 2650 mAh batteries are charged at 75% right now. So I can expect ~75 hours of runtime with 2 of them.
Some of my 2500 mAh batteries are old and not fully charged. Lets say they worth 80% of an Eneloop. So I get ~64 hours of runtime with 2 of them.
Finally, alkaline: at low level, I can expect 78% of an eneloop runtime from fresh alkalines (I will not elaborate here how I got the 78% number). My alkalines are not all fresh so lets cut another 25%. Now I can expect ~46 hours of runtime with 2 of them.


All in all with all my AA batteries, my Olight could last 1804 hours! 
In the worst scenario, it's winter. Here it will be dark starting at 4PM. If I go to bed at 10PM 'cause it's boring without power, I could use my flashlight for a maximum of 6 hours a day. With 1804 hours off runtime that makes:

300 days at level 1 setting (6 lumens)
123 days at level 2 setting (15 lumens)
29 days at level 3 setting (45 lumens)
12 days at level 4 setting (90 lumens)
4½ days at level 5 setting (190 lumens)

So D-Dog, I don't think it will hurt to use my T25 flashlight at level 2 or 3. Maybe I am taking too much risk at level 3... 29 days :thinking:. Just kidding.

I'm not counting my numerous AAA batteries which can be used as AA batteries with a simple adaptor. I could also recharge my NiMh at least one time with my UPS battery of my computer. And don't forget that this was the worst scenario!

Was funny!


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## NightTime (Dec 17, 2008)

D-Dog said:


> Why the general public is different-
> Last night a friend of mine was using my M20 on max to spot a patch of trees to find out if any freezing rain was falling. He was impressed, said "nice [email protected]"(because it really looks like one ) and proceeded to shoot himself in the eye before I could stop him...


 


Funny people. Does anyone else have that kind of story?


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## divine (Dec 17, 2008)

There was a thread in here a month or two ago where someone lived in a city with multi-story apartment buildings... and the power went out, and the OP posted a picture of his Mag85 shining down the street.

It was interesting from my point of view. Most days you probably would barely notice the light down that street, but on the day the power was out, it was like stadium lighting.


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## Stress_Test (Dec 17, 2008)

NightTime has the right idea; if you sit down and actually add up the total batteries you have at the moment, you may be surprised by the run time you've got available. 

I've got 3 loads of D cells for a 3D MagLED right, now. Let's say I use each set for 30 hours (at which it's ~25% brightness). 3 sets at 30 hrs each is 90 hrs. Then 6 hours use each night is 15 night's of run time with say 40 lumens out the front (per Mr.Gman's tests). 

That's 40 lumens 6hrs/night for *two weeks*!! And that's just the D cells, maybe what, 10 bucks worth? Not even counting the big stashes of AA and even C. 

*And*, a simple car cigarette lighter power inverter will let you charge up your AAs too, even if it's a slow 8 hr charger. So you can charge 4 AAs during the day from your car's battery and have them ready to go by night fall. Run your car for a few minutes as needed to keep the battery charged (but it'd take a LOT of AA charges to drain the car battery haha)

I understand the idea of conservation, but dang, I wouldn't sit in the dark with a lousy 3 lumens unless I was down to my last cells. You might as well be using candles at that point. 

I'm with the OP on this one. With all the money I've spent on lights and batteries I want to put it all to good use!


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## Sgt. LED (Dec 17, 2008)

So when I get my MC3 from milky that will be able to go beyond 1000 hours on low using 2 CR123's and pair it up to the 170 or so primary cells I have with the idea of using it 6 hours a day then how many days of light will I have?

 That is insane! Maybe I afford to use the next to lowest level huh?!!!!!!!!!


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## Socrates67 (Dec 17, 2008)

My own personal experience during this New England ice storm and power outage showed me how much of a run on supplies there was at the stores. D-cells were sold out immediately within hours in all stores, then the C-cells were gone. All that were left were AA's and AAA's which I am pretty sure don't last as long as D's and C's. My own C-cell Maglite has the original ican lamp, and as I searched all over for batteries all weekend it eventually died. One day later we had both the power back on and new batteries in the stores. Had I been using an LED in it with moderate draw it never would have run out, the batteries would have lasted all the way through the outage. Had I been using a super bright lamp it again would not have lasted the whole outage. OK I can see the need for some super bright lights but I think it should be balanced with a selection of long lasting lights. Sometimes you need a Ferrari and sometimes you need a Toyota Prius.


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## The Alliance (Dec 17, 2008)

My rule: 
Use dim lights/long runtime for indoor use and save strong lights/short runtime for outdoors/defense/emergency during a power outage.

btw, to the poster who said that stores ran out of D cells fast, what about the 9-volt batteries? Seems like a lot of clock radios use that.


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## Juggernaut (Dec 17, 2008)

Sgt. LED said:


> So when I get my MC3 from milky that will be able to go beyond 1000 hours on low using 2 CR123's and pair it up to the 170 or so primary cells I have with the idea of using it 6 hours a day then how many days of light will I have?


 
Oh 85,000 hours that’s all? That’s only 9.7 years continuously……crap I better get more batteries to beat you!

If I was you I’d keep this light on all the time, even when it’s away just to make it worth it! Basically it’s like Tritium, 10 years of life!
 
(UPDATE: I did my math wrong I have enough batteries to run my Bigbeam 1000 Ultra Mod for *22,000 hours!* Not as long as you but at least I’m in the running!)


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## savumaki (Dec 17, 2008)

With a power outage about the last thing that goes thru my mind is whether I have enough flashlights and/or batteries--I KNOW I DO---However other trivial problems, like running the furnace in winter or power for the freezers and fridges in the summer leap out and grab my attention; With some minor wiring changes and the addition of a small gen/set those problems have been solved. (I can even recharge with it)
Hmmmmmm! did you ever notice how the availability of a gen/set dramatically cuts down on outages


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## hyperloop (Dec 17, 2008)

sappyg said:


> this reminds me of the parable of the ant and the grasshopper.
> plus, the more i use my lights the more i appreciate low or low low.


 
+1 on that, stayed over at the in laws last night and their house is pretty dark as is the bedroom my wife and i were in, wanted to go to the loo and found that my Ultrafire A1 was waaaayyy too bright on high and medium, low was ok (perhaps 20 lumens) but still ended up using either my Fenix E01 or the fauxton that i had from DX.

Think i need more E01s and a whole lot more e2 lithiums for emergencies, those are ample for power outages and when its really dark, will keep the brighter lights for bumps in the night, etc.

That is why i like my Jetbeam Jet III Pro ST, lowest output is even lower than my Fenix E01 and max is 225 lumens, definitely more than ample. With a coupla spare 18650s, im all set.


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## Nochrome (Dec 17, 2008)

Here's an idea to add to the mix. I put together a little emergency/power outage light a few weeks ago. Here's the recipe.

1. 10mm white led 28000 mcd
2. 1 320 ohm resistor
3. plumbing fitting
4. Micro switch
5. 9v battery pigtail
6. Old 9v battery had about 8v left in it. 

I don't think there's anything new or exciting here as I'm sure its all been done before and I'm certainly no expert. But this little light has amazed me. 
Its very bright for what it is. It can easily be used as a "finding your way" flashlight. It actually throws a nice tight spot (led is 10 degree).
It will give plenty of light in a dark room bouncing off ceiling (once your eyes adapt). 2 or 3 of these would provide more than enough light fo the average room
It's water proof. It runs under water! (I sealed it).
It stays cold to the touch.
Lastly, and here's the kicker. I switched it on on 12/5 and its been running ever since, 24 hrs a day. We have bet going on in the family as to when it will die. It's still fairly bright and could still be used for emergency lighting. 
Total cost was around 5 bucks. That could be cut down as it doesnt really need a switch. 
You can use up your old 9v batteries from your smoke detectors.
I suppose if you were to turn it off and only use it at night for a few hours then it would basically last forever on just one full battery. 
In answer to the original question of the thread I think its very useful to have dim long running lights for emergencies just on the theory that when the future is uncertain you gotta stay conservative right from the beginning. I'd feel stupid if I came up just one day short on something I could have rationed better. I hope this fits in with the general theme of this thread and is helpful.


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## Lee1959 (Dec 17, 2008)

Another thing to consider is advertising ourselves. In blackout situations predators become bold. This is especially true in natural disasters such as Katrina, the longer it lasts, and the worse it is, the more likely that after dark the predators will be on the move and more than willing to take what you have. Bright lights will likely draw predators to you like moths to a flame. Lots of bright light means money, enough to waste, means plenty for them. 

Yes, we are all supermen and can take out the badguys or scare them off with our superior skills, weaponry and bright lights, but are you really so willing to bet your loved ones life on that? Sometimes flying under the radar, just using enough light, makes good sense.


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## Sgt. LED (Dec 17, 2008)

Juggernaut said:


> Oh 85,000 hours that’s all? That’s only 9.7 years continuously……crap I better get more batteries to beat you!
> 
> If I was you I’d keep this light on all the time, even when it’s away just to make it worth it! Basically it’s like Tritium, 10 years of life!


 I came to CPF with a love of long running dimmer lights. I always liked the comments from non CPF'ers when they say their light is brighter than mine because I know if we stand there long enough sooner or later he is going to need my help to find his way back!

When I order a light from Milky it usually starts with me naming a desired runtime from X number of cells using a particular emitter and he tells me how bright it will end up being. When I called him for my Boxster build I declined the first 2 suggestions for the highest mode choices in favor of longer runtime and I run it on an 18650. I think I get 400 hours on low off of a charge.

I don't think I have ever wanted the brightest light. I am pretty sure my top end is about 500 lumens OTF.

@ Nochrome, I have one just like that on my nightstand with a directional switch on it. When you stand it up it comes on and when you lay it on it's side it goes out. Neat little thing.


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## abvidledUK (Dec 17, 2008)

I would stick to the half & half principle.

I would run my torches at a level that uses no more than half my remaining batteries in a week.

Second week, same thing.

So I would use lower and lower output each week.

This ensures I would always have enough batteries.

With a large enough stock of batteries, this would actually mean I could run my torches at whatever output I like for many, many weeks.

Having said that, I would run low output lights on constant, hand held / headlamps for spot lighting, and keep my thick curtains closed so as not to attract attention.


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## Nochrome (Dec 17, 2008)

Sgt Led, 

Nice idea on the switch. I like things like this that give far more than the sum of their parts would suggest. 
I am hoping to be able to get some of the 20mm leds. These should work out nicely I think.


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## abvidledUK (Dec 17, 2008)

Here's one I made earlier.....
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/136081



Nochrome said:


> Here's an idea to add to the mix. I put together a little emergency/power outage light a few weeks ago. Here's the recipe.
> 
> 1. 10mm white led 28000 mcd
> 2. 1 320 ohm resistor
> ...



Runtime, I have had weeks of output from an old 9v smoke detector battery.


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## Illum (Dec 17, 2008)

Nochrome said:


> Here's an idea to add to the mix. I put together a little emergency/power outage light a few weeks ago. Here's the recipe.
> 
> 1. 10mm white led 28000 mcd
> 2. 1 320 ohm resistor
> ...



lol, get a pak-lite:nana:
heck, I've been thinking about that myself
stick two 10mm LEDs in series instead, your resistor will only need to dissipate 40mw instead of 108mw at 20ma [or 27 instead of 88mw at 15ma]
+----|>|----|>|---/\/\/----+ R = 100 ohms


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## Nochrome (Dec 17, 2008)

AbvidledUK,
Those look cool. A useful pocket light. Mine would not fit in pocket unless you wanted to make people think you were glad to see them:devil:

Illum_the_nation,

Yikes! Can you say that again in terms a 5 yr old can understand cause thats about where I am with this stuff. I just kinda soldered the doohicky to the thingy and it worked (to my surprise). Also what is a Pak Lite?


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## Sgt. LED (Dec 17, 2008)

It is basically what you have already made but with 2 output levels and 2 led's.

It is also a neat little long running gizmo.


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## metlarules (Dec 17, 2008)

After Hurricane Gustav the power was out here for 2 days. My Mag led 4d was worth its weight in gold bars. It lit up a 20x24 room for 4 to 5 hours each night with MINIMAL drain on the batteries.According to http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/maglite_mag-led.htm it runs for 43.20hours to 50% brightness. This is what I consider a great emergency light. Another good light for emergencies is the mini mag with SMJLED. It will run around 30hrs on 2 aa batteries with about 10 lumens. Like others have said lights like these are good because you don't know how long the power will be out.


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## etc (Dec 17, 2008)

The ultimate lite for TSHTF is a Mag with Nite ize and 4D cells.


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## lightplay22 (Dec 17, 2008)

Seems to me that any time the power goes out, a switch flips in our brains and we go into survival mode, which in turn causes us to be very conservative with our supplies, whether its the gas in the cars, water, batteries, or anything the we deem as necessities for survival, we want it to last as long as possible.


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## D-Dog (Dec 17, 2008)

Juggernaut said:


> Oh 85,000 hours that’s all? That’s only 9.7 years continuously……crap I better get more batteries to beat you!
> 
> If I was you I’d keep this light on all the time, even when it’s away just to make it worth it! Basically it’s like Tritium, 10 years of life!



Lol, you could be the first person to "burn out" an LED ... :naughty:


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## Buck91 (Dec 17, 2008)

nikon said:


> And did you ever notice how quiet and peaceful it gets when the power goes out?


 
I remember how it USED to get, before the big black out of 2002... Now it seems every other house has a loud, annoying generator parked out front if the power is out for more than 10 minutes :thumbsdow


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## Socrates67 (Dec 18, 2008)

metlarules said:


> After Hurricane Gustav the power was out here for 2 days. My Mag led 4d was worth its weight in gold bars. It lit up a 20x24 room for 4 to 5 hours each night with MINIMAL drain on the batteries.According to http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/maglite_mag-led.htm it runs for 43.20hours to 50% brightness. This is what I consider a great emergency light. Another good light for emergencies is the mini mag with SMJLED. It will run around 30hrs on 2 aa batteries with about 10 lumens. Like others have said lights like these are good because you don't know how long the power will be out.



I got a pretty good formula for the max amount of battery life needed in a blackout. Right now as this ice storm hit we are in the darkest time of the year (Winter Solstice, Northern Hemisphere), with about 9 hours of daylight and 15 hours of night. Take the max amount of night hours and subtract 8 hours a day for sleeping, that is how much at most you could need running lights at night, about 7 hours. Multiply that times how many days you can expect a power outage (this being the largest outage in the history of New Hampshire with 500K people without power, and two-thirds restored in five days, the rest will stretch out another week. So make it 2-1 odds it will be a five day outage max). 

So you are looking at needing some lights going 35 to 40 hours at acceptable levels. I agree what another gentleman said, two levels of lighting is what we should have, high power and long life, like I also said a Ferrari and a Prius. I am switching everything I got now to LED, I love my new Mini-Mag LED with plenty of light and longer battery life than my older Mini's. Most of the basic mid-level LED setups out there will give almost the necessary 35 hours run time.

Now this is all assuming having only one change of batteries. A true survivalist would have those ammo cans full of cells, but I ain't of those guys, instead I count my pennies and get the larger order of fries at the window. So I got caught with my britches down and not enough batteries.


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## Socrates67 (Dec 18, 2008)

The Alliance said:


> My rule:
> Use dim lights/long runtime for indoor use and save strong lights/short runtime for outdoors/defense/emergency during a power outage.
> 
> btw, to the poster who said that stores ran out of D cells fast, what about the 9-volt batteries? Seems like a lot of clock radios use that.



Yeah the 9V's went out fast too but there were still small amounts of them left after four days. It was the D's that went like greased lightning, in mere hours the first day coinciding with the disappearance of the lanterns off the store shelves. Note that most LED and flourescent lanterns take D's, yet on the first day most D-cell hand flashlights were still there.

Thus I see a pattern for natural disasters: The lanterns go first, both gas and electric and the batteries for them (D's) in a matter of hours on the first day (and when the power goes out the generators start flying off the shelves before your TV even loses its static charge on the screen). Next, the flashlights, which are untouched on Day One, start going out the door. After four days you got almost no flashlights left on the store shelves except a few Maglites and no D's or C's, very few 9V's, but plenty of AA's and AAA's left over.

Prepare for the next one accordingly....


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## Timothybil (Dec 18, 2008)

wacbzz said:


> Almost the very first thing I see people bringing up on this thread is the length of time that the power may be out. In this case, I see it very beneficial, like most that have posted here, to have a light/lights that run on low lumens for a long time. My lightwave Tec3000 is perfect for this scenario.
> 
> I am wondering, however, how long people typically stay up past the point of darkness to actually use the lights. Seriously. With no tv, no computers, nothing electric, I am assuming that most people would essentially call it a night when it gets really dark out. Especially during an extended outage. The first night - woohoo, get the friends over, party, blah, blah, blah. After that... Any thoughts?


We here in Ioway currently have a Winter Storm Advisory for tomorrow - up to 2 to 5 inches of ice and snow by tomorrow night. Official sunset tomorrow is 4:51pm, which means pretty much total darkness by 6pm. Sunrise Friday morning is at 7:45am, which means brightness begins to be noticeable by 7am or so. So you are suggesting I should go sleep for 13hrs straight just because the power is off? That's two nights sleep for me usually, and I have a whole stack of books waiting to be read. That's why I have my little Eveready with the CCFL and a lot of AA batteries. :thumbsup: I also have my EVeready WeatherReady 3 LED Lantern with a couple of sets of extra D cells for general lighting. Not to mention the G2, SSL MS and Stylus Plus, SL TT2, a dozen extra primaries, a real honest-to-goodness kerosene lantern, and a kerosene space heater. Bring It On!


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 18, 2008)

Just get a car charger, LSD nimh AA/AAAs and you can use high on stuff. I survived the ice storm of Dec 2007 without power for 4 days and 7 hours and went through about 20AAs.... ALL were nimh and I recharged 32 AAs in my truck... 8 at night and 8 while driving around shopping for food. I used a doublebright CCFL for most lighting and a lantern with the CCFL out of another energizer light I made. You need a certain amount of light to play cards because you computer has no power. I used dim LEDs in the bathroom and my bedroom and recharged them too. I have a 3D dorcy LED that will run off D batteries I could pull out of my 8D 18watt rayovac fluorescent lantern had I used it.....lol


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## hyperloop (Dec 18, 2008)

Nochrome said:


> Here's an idea to add to the mix. I put together a little emergency/power outage light a few weeks ago. Here's the recipe.
> 
> 1. 10mm white led 28000 mcd
> 2. 1 320 ohm resistor
> ...


 
Technically inept person would like to see a picture or 10 if i could


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## Nochrome (Dec 18, 2008)

I'd love to post a picture but I've yet to figure out how to do it. Anyone want to help me with that? or point me to the right place to look.


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## abvidledUK (Dec 18, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> Just get a car charger, LSD nimh AA/AAAs and you can use high on stuff. I survived the ice storm of Dec 2007 without power for 4 days and 7 hours and went through about 20AAs.... ALL were nimh and I recharged 32 AAs in my truck...



Great idea, my AA AA CR123 chargers all have 12v inputs, I'll dig out my leads now !

I already have a standby 12v car/camping battery I replace every 3 years or so.

For CH & HW pump running etc.

I must get around to making a LED & Resistor combo to put across the terminals.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 18, 2008)

abvidledUK said:


> Great idea, my AA AA CR123 chargers all have 12v inputs, I'll dig out my leads now !
> 
> I already have a standby 12v car/camping battery I replace every 3 years or so.
> 
> ...


 if you run it at 2ma it may last till the next century


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## Zatoichi (Dec 18, 2008)

wacbzz said:


> I am wondering, however, how long people typically stay up past the point of darkness to actually use the lights. Seriously. With no tv, no computers, nothing electric, I am assuming that most people would essentially call it a night when it gets really dark out. Especially during an extended outage. The first night - woohoo, get the friends over, party, blah, blah, blah. After that... Any thoughts?



I'm usually up for some time after dark (a long time in winter), and with no electricity I'd be doing a lot of reading or listening to radio. I lived for 5 years without electricity back in the pre-LED era, and I was using candles, paraffin (kerosine?) lamps and a Maglite. With the lights I have now, it would be much easier. 

You don't need much light at all to get by with, and even with the great runtime you can get now, 'wasting' batteries by having more light than I needed would soon wear thin if I were out of power for a long period. I wouldn't go to bed early to save batteries though. I'm very much a night person.


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## D-Dog (Dec 18, 2008)

From all the replies I have read so far, it appears most people agree a multi-level LED with a low low and a bright high is what you are after as it is then up to you to adjust for optimal runtime. However, a larger light with a "weaker" LED can be ideal for a long-term ceiling bounce or something lik that. 

We don't get power outages regularly here (only one or two a year if that and most are real short...), however, I have an extra Lead Acid 100+ aH battery in the garage and it would sure be fun to hook up a bunch of little 25000mcd LED's to it for entire houser illumination... will have to think about doing it in the future if the grid gets more unreliable...

Finally, I would also like to emphasize the inportange of purchasing a small inverter for your car. They are very inexpensive (less than your next light I bet ) and coupled with a 15 minuite ni-mh charger (and the proper batteries of course), you can recharge entire sets on the trip to stores. A larger inverter will even provide up to 1000watts from your car in a pinch (direct hookup to the battery), although this method will waste gas in a hurry and put a lok of strain on the alternator in your car.


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## NightTime (Dec 18, 2008)

Nochrome said:


> I'd love to post a picture but I've yet to figure out how to do it. Anyone want to help me with that? or point me to the right place to look.


 

I had the same question two days ago. Jarl answered to me. He said there's no attach option on this forum. To upload your pics, you'll need an account on imageshack or something similar. From there you will get a browser window up. Now open one of your pics, get the URL using properties for example and then use this URL in the forum using the image button. Max size is 800x800 pixels.

Does that mean every pics I posted will disappear if I cancel my imageshack acount?


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## D-Dog (Dec 18, 2008)

NightTime said:


> I had the same question two days ago. Jarl answered to me. He said there's no attach option on this forum. To upload your pics, you'll need an account on imageshack or something similar. From there you will get a browser window up. Now open one of your pics, get the URL using properties for example and then use this URL in the forum using the image button. Max size is 800x800 pixels.
> 
> Does that mean every pics I posted will disappear if I cancel my imageshack acount?



I would think so as they clear the room for new people signing up but I'm not totally sure. I tend to use photobucket more as I have yet to have any problems with them... they even automatically convert to 800*600 when you upload :thumbsup:


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## NightTime (Dec 18, 2008)

D-Dog said:


> [...]they even automatically convert to 800*600 when you upload :thumbsup:


 
Great option, but I prefer resizing myself so I can keep the picture ratio.


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## Socrates67 (Dec 18, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> Just get a car charger, LSD nimh AA/AAAs and you can use high on stuff. I survived the ice storm of Dec 2007 without power for 4 days and 7 hours and went through about 20AAs.... ALL were nimh and I recharged 32 AAs in my truck... 8 at night and 8 while driving around shopping for food. I used a doublebright CCFL for most lighting and a lantern with the CCFL out of another energizer light I made. You need a certain amount of light to play cards because you computer has no power. I used dim LEDs in the bathroom and my bedroom and recharged them too. I have a 3D dorcy LED that will run off D batteries I could pull out of my 8D 18watt rayovac fluorescent lantern had I used it.....lol



I forgot to mention the run on GASOLINE at the gas stations. 90% of the gas stations for a hundred miles around had no power to operate their pumps, and the ones that did had people hogging the pumps with gas cans for their generators, the result being lines a quarter mile long around the corner. I had to almost drive to the state line to get my gas.

So yeah I agree about getting a car inverter which I had planned on doing anyway, but you cannot even rely on that totally. Diversify.


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## Cydonia (Dec 18, 2008)

A red LED Inova X5 runs for many days. It uses a *single* CR123A cell. 
This is another must have light for the emergency kit, by the way....


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## abvidledUK (Dec 18, 2008)

NightTime said:


> To upload your pics, you'll need an account on imageshack or something similar. From there you will get a browser window up. Now open one of your pics, get the URL using properties for example and then use this URL in the forum using the image button.
> Does that mean every pics I posted will disappear if I cancel my imageshack acount?



You don't need an Imageshack account to convert & post pics.

However, that means each photo has to be done individually.


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## rotncore (Dec 18, 2008)

I agree with the diversification statement above. I have lights that will run every AA, AAA, D, CR123, and a healthy stack of primaries. I also agree that often a really low level for indoor navigation is all that is needed, especially when your eyes are dark adapted. On my annual hunting trip this year, I was worried that my tritium keychain fob was too bright in the dark cabin at night, as I could see quite well just by it's throw in the cabin with no light pollution. 

My go-to emergency battery sippers are Nitecore D10 on low (but with the adjustable levels is good for all-around), Mag 2D with SMJLED, Zebralight H50-Q5, and Gerber IU. Those lights and a Costco pack of 48 primaries will last a long time, long enough that I'd run out of way more important supplies long before it became an issue. I do want to get a Pak-Lite to round out my options, and the Milky candle sounds awesome.


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## saabgoblin (Dec 18, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> You must live in a rough neighborhood. :candle:



In case of a hardcore emergency, most if not all of us will will be in a "Rough" neighborhood. I am more afraid of panicky humans than most other animals on the planet.


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## D-Dog (Dec 18, 2008)

I bet a bright tritium vial would suffice as a late night bathroom light to dark adapted eyes... plus the runtime can hardly be beat. Thanks for mentioning tritium as I almost forgot how useful even it could be in a pinch.


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## Stereodude (Dec 18, 2008)

saabgoblin said:


> In case of a hardcore emergency, most if not all of us will will be in a "Rough" neighborhood. I am more afraid of panicky humans than most other animals on the planet.


I lived through the NE blackout a 5 years ago. I don't remember seeing any rioters or looters in my parents neighborhood (where I lived at the time).


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## D-Dog (Dec 18, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> I lived through the NE blackout a 5 years ago. I don't remember seeing any rioters or looters in my parents neighborhood (where I lived at the time).



Same here and I live in the typical suburban NE neighborhood. I would think this is a very legitimate concern in a city perhaps, however, we have to have some faith in human nature right?


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## jhellwig (Dec 18, 2008)

We are supposed to have a big ice storm tonight. I wandered through walmart to day out of boredom and the flashlights were picked clean of every cheap light there was. Even d cell mags were gone. All that was left were the more costly led colmens and minimags. The lanterns in the camping section were also picked over. 

Far as I can tell, the only reason you need those bright lights is to blind the creep trying to steel your generator.


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## D-Dog (Dec 18, 2008)

jhellwig said:


> We are supposed to have a big ice storm tonight. I wandered through walmart to day out of boredom and the flashlights were picked clean of every cheap light there was. Even d cell mags were gone. All that was left were the more costly led colmens and minimags. The lanterns in the camping section were also picked over.
> 
> Far as I can tell, the only reason you need those bright lights is to blind the creep trying to steel your generator.



Assuming there is a generator to steal  Like I said before, we only have one or two outages a year so it's not worth it financially for us to invest in a generator but we are supposed to get about 6 inches tomorrow 

If you don't want a generator or can have one (in an appartment or otherwise), a big battery or two with an inverter can power a few devices in a pinch. I have 30Ah battery pack with a 600 watt inverter for power outages with a 100aH battery I also hook up to if need be... I works well for what I use it for but even a small generator would be better for any type of an extended outage.


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## Nochrome (Dec 18, 2008)

Regarding the comments about human nature makes me recall the poor Walmart employee who was trampled to death by the overexcited mob looking for good deals on electronics. 
It is with regret that I say that in my experience the line between human nature and animal behaviour is a function of the amount of time and the level of severity of the hardship. 
In my work I see people who are at the end of that line. You always hear the neighbors and friends on the news the next day saying "I don't understand he was such a nice boy" or "He was just turning his life around" etc. I'll tell you for sure "normal" "nice" people are capable of the worst things given the right stimulus. 
Back to the point you just need to be aware that things can turn ugly anywhere so be be prepared with proper emergencey supplies such as long term lighting and some very bright lights for when they are needed. 
P.S thanks for the tips on the pictures I'll have to investigate more on that issue.


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## Stereodude (Dec 18, 2008)

jhellwig said:


> We are supposed to have a big ice storm tonight. I wandered through walmart to day out of boredom and the flashlights were picked clean of every cheap light there was. Even d cell mags were gone. All that was left were the more costly led colmens and minimags. The lanterns in the camping section were also picked over.


That could just be poor stocking at Walmart. They could have had empty shelves before the doom and gloom came on the Weather Channel.


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## saabgoblin (Dec 18, 2008)

D-Dog said:


> Same here and I live in the typical suburban NE neighborhood. I would think this is a very legitimate concern in a city perhaps, however, we have to have some faith in human nature right?



I do live in a city so my perspective may be a little skewed but I am also referring to to an epic emergency, one that is a little more disruptive than a really inconvenient extended yet dangerous blackout. I believe that humans are capable of great compassion but I also believe that there is a primordial dark side where reason and compassion can be overridden. Think about our dependence on fuel for instance, how many people do you know that are or can be independent without grocery stores and no or little knowledge of agrarian techniques once that nice supply of fresh food runs out.

I will have to say that if such an "Epic" event were to occur, a flashlight, and a long running one at that probably satisfies some primordial fear of being without fire and light which we equate with safety and security. I may be a little paranoid like some others that have posted before me but you know what they say about paranoia don't cha, "Paranoid people only know a little".:nana:


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 18, 2008)

Socrates67 said:


> I forgot to mention the run on GASOLINE at the gas stations. 90% of the gas stations for a hundred miles around had no power to operate their pumps, and the ones that did had people hogging the pumps with gas cans for their generators, the result being lines a quarter mile long around the corner. I had to almost drive to the state line to get my gas.
> 
> So yeah I agree about getting a car inverter which I had planned on doing anyway, but you cannot even rely on that totally. Diversify.


yeah it happened here too... for 2 days after the power went out the gas was gone then they got more and more stations back online and the QuickTrip stores all got generators and were back in business and we had plenty of Gas. As far as an inverter it is less efficient to boost 12vdc to 120vac and then back down to low dc to charge batteries. It is better to have a charger with a car adapter cord instead as they tend to draw a lot of current if you have the 1 hour chargers. After about half a day you couldn't get a generator everyone sold out of them but 3 days later they were selling them again.


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## saabgoblin (Dec 18, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> That could just be poor stocking at Walmart. They could have had empty shelves before the doom and gloom came on the Weather Channel.



Poor stocking+scarcity+fear+increased competition=Freak-out. I'll be glad that I have my long running light while I focus on other security/survival issues and try to stay out of the fray.


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## KiwiMark (Dec 18, 2008)

I never worry about running out of battery power - if I drain my 14500 cells for my EDC I always have my 2D Maglites with nite ize LEDs that should be good for around 50 hours of light. I can run my Jet-IIIM on low for weeks if need be, so it wouldn't matter if my other lights ran out of batteries. If the stores run out of some batteries but not othes then I would be OK, I can create light from AAA, AA, C, D, CR123a, 14500, 16340 or 18650 cells. I also have a 12V lead for one of my AA chargers and a 12V lead for my WF-139. All my batteries are kept fully charged apart from the partly charged ones in my lights. Just my Fenix L2D on low with 10 sets of LSD NiMH cells could provide 400 hours of light, it shouldn't be too hard to hunt around the house for another 100 to 200 hours worth of AAs for it. I reckon I could get by with enough light for maybe 6-12 months on my current batteries.

So I will use my lights on low, medium or high as I need - I don't use medium if I only use low, but I don't use low if I need more light than that. The longest power cut I have personally experienced in the last 4 decades has lasted less than 24 hours.


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## saabgoblin (Dec 18, 2008)

That's true Kiwi,presuming that you still have a house. Sorry, my Boy Scout Be Prepared training may have been taken to extremes.


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## jhellwig (Dec 18, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> That could just be poor stocking at Walmart. They could have had empty shelves before the doom and gloom came on the Weather Channel.




Nah. That section was fully stocked a week ago. The had tons of cheapo lights. I was surprised that the bread and milk wasn't more picked over. That usualy happens when a big snow storm is comming.


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## f22shift (Dec 18, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> I lived through the NE blackout a 5 years ago. I don't remember seeing any rioters or looters in my parents neighborhood (where I lived at the time).


 
it wasnt long enough

it was fun. ppl drunk on the streets of nyc. ppl bbq'in their freezer stuff and having fun in the suburbs. the supermarket was even running on a backup generater.


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## D-Dog (Dec 18, 2008)

saabgoblin said:


> I do live in a city so my perspective may be a little skewed but I am also referring to to an epic emergency, one that is a little more disruptive than a really inconvenient extended yet dangerous blackout. I believe that humans are capable of great compassion but I also believe that there is a primordial dark side where reason and compassion can be overridden. Think about our dependence on fuel for instance, how many people do you know that are or can be independent without grocery stores and no or little knowledge of agrarian techniques once that nice supply of fresh food runs out.
> 
> I will have to say that if such an "Epic" event were to occur, a flashlight, and a long running one at that probably satisfies some primordial fear of being without fire and light which we equate with safety and security. I may be a little paranoid like some others that have posted before me but you know what they say about paranoia don't cha, "Paranoid people only know a little".:nana:



Youfoundnemo can kill deer...:nana:

But yea, we all remember the looting after Katrina, however, the event would have to be VERY extreme for large-scale looting, etc. I'm thinking EMP or nuclear strike or something of the sort

@f22shift -- don't forget no school for all of us who were "kids" back then


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## Zatoichi (Dec 18, 2008)

I like to be prepared. At the same time, I refuse to adopt a survivalist mentality, and worrying about the country being thrown into a long term state of voilent anarchy. That's no life at all IMO. With a family of 4, I'd be hard pressed to store months worth of food in the lead-lined, anti-magnetic, zombie-proof, hidden bomb shelter, so batteries might soon be little comfort. If you're stuck in a dark hole so long that half a dozen good, sparingly used batteries won't get you through, you're probably doomed anyway. Dooomed I say, doomed! 

Obviously it's different if you live next to a volcano or something, and it's likely you'll face long periods without supplies from time to time, but this idea of needing to stock up on batteries (or prepare in any way at all) in case the rest of the population become criminally insane, for so long you might never see a new battery for months - if ever?! I'm not living in fear like that. I'm honestly more worried about my next credit card statement (after buying new lights, more batteries, a charger, a tester...).


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## D-Dog (Dec 18, 2008)

Zatoichi said:


> I'm honestly more worried about my next credit card statement (after buying new lights, more batteries, a charger, a tester...).



too true on here I'm afraid


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## saabgoblin (Dec 18, 2008)

I can't disagree with you Zatoichi, yeah there are some scenarios that I would prefer not to live through but I am getting more at extended catastrophes seeing as though I live in earthquake country. I am thinking 5-20 days, after that, I doubt that a flashlight would be your utmost concern. Five days without water and you are pretty much dead.


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## D-Dog (Dec 18, 2008)

I believe water would quickly become the largest concern, especially when generators die on pumping stations or in the event of an earthquake/etc the water mains are broken. We use I forget how many gallons of water a day between showers, cooking, drinking and the infamous toilet to name a few... and quality of life would really suffer if this were to occur.


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## carrot (Dec 18, 2008)

You nailed it. While many LOVE brightness (and I do too) my main interest is in long runtimes.


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## Nochrome (Dec 18, 2008)

Zatoichi said:


> I like to be prepared. At the same time, I refuse to adopt a survivalist mentality, and worrying about the country being thrown into a long term state of voilent anarchy.


 
I think there's a middle ground here. It doesn't have to be a long term state of violent anarchy for things to get nasty. Katrina showed us that once the rule of law is absent society falls apart pretty quickly. 
You don't have to have stores of food set aside in bunkers. Costco sells some decent emergency food kits for pretty cheap and you can just keep them in a cupboard (no lead lining required )
A simple long running supply of low light is a necessary and sensible thing to think about in advance. Several solutions have been mentioned that will perform well and will not require huge stores of batteries. 
The need for light in an extended power outtage should not be under estimated from a psychological standpoint especially when you've got kids. 
IMHO I'ts true to say that lighting may not be your main concern but if you've prepared then it won't be a concern at all.


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## Stereodude (Dec 18, 2008)

Nochrome said:


> Katrina showed us that once the rule of law is absent society falls apart pretty quickly.


Perhaps, but it also showed us that when you have to evacuate you might want to do so instead of staying and complaining about the aftermath.


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## Nochrome (Dec 18, 2008)

Well said. I couldn't agree more. A little common sense goes a long way.


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## Zatoichi (Dec 18, 2008)

Yes Nochrome, being prepared for a power cut is sensible, and I agree many of the measures suggested have been sensible. What I'm not really into is preparing for some kind of apocalypse. Living in England I feel emergency food packs are a little outside that middle ground, but for some they'll be very prudent. Besides, I can live on tins of spagetti o's for a couple of weeks.


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## Cydonia (Dec 18, 2008)

Zatoichi said:


> I like to be prepared. At the same time, I refuse to adopt a survivalist mentality, and worrying about the country being thrown into a long term state of voilent anarchy. That's no life at all IMO. With a family of 4, I'd be hard pressed to store months worth of food in the lead-lined, anti-magnetic, zombie-proof, hidden bomb shelter, so batteries might soon be little comfort. If you're stuck in a dark hole so long that half a dozen good, sparingly used batteries won't get you through, you're probably doomed anyway. Dooomed I say, doomed!



I would like to remind you that countless millions of people, every day, worldwide subsist on little more than rice and whole grains - the gap between utter starvation and death is only a few cents a day. You too... can and will subsist on such simple fare if/when SHTF. So... some sacks of rice and beans don't cost much. 5 gallon water jugs don't cost much. A good Swiss Katadyn ceramic water filter costs a bit more, but...

Don't throw in the towel and give up because the task of preparing sounds too shocking or impossibly daunting. 
That's a sad "easy way out" that far too many *choose* to take...


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## saabgoblin (Dec 18, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> Perhaps, but it also showed us that when you have to evacuate you might want to do so instead of staying and complaining about the aftermath.



I agree but;
Let's not forget about building a city below SEA LEVEL and then rebuilding the same city and not raising the new buildings on stilts to solve the problem in the first place. All of the batteries and food in the world won't help out in that scenario.:thinking:


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## Zatoichi (Dec 18, 2008)

Cydonia said:


> Don't throw in the towel and give up because the task of preparing sounds too shocking or impossibly daunting.
> That's a sad "easy way out" that far too many *choose* to take...



I don't find the prospect of storing grain and water daunting, I see it as being almost completely unnecessary where I live. If I'm going to prepare for things that will probably never happen, where is it going to end? I choose not to live like that. I'm prepared for events that I believe there's a significant chance of happening. Thus far and no further for me.


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## Cydonia (Dec 18, 2008)

saabgoblin said:


> I agree but;
> Let's not forget about building a city below SEA LEVEL and then rebuilding the same city and not raising the new buildings on stilts to solve the problem in the first place. All of the batteries and food in the world won't help out in that scenario.:thinking:



In the beginning it wasn't below sea level so much... the alluvial that it was built on has subsided over time. There was an attempt to get laws implemented to require the rebuilt houses to be 3 feet (1 metre) higher than they previously were. The outcry from citizens and their action groups was deafening. So it was dropped. Moral is, you can't save people from themselves. It's an untenable case now though. The costs to "save" it from the foaming Sea waves of old Neptune would be utterly outlandish :laughing:


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## Nochrome (Dec 18, 2008)

Zatoichi said:


> Besides, I can live on tins of spagetti o's for a couple of weeks.


 
Before I was married I proved that you can survive on spaghettio's just fine


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## maxa beam (Dec 18, 2008)

Cydonia said:


> In the beginning it wasn't below sea level so much... the alluvial that it was built on has subsided over time. There was an attempt to get laws implemented to require the rebuilt houses to be 3 feet (1 metre) higher than they previously were. The outcry from citizens and their action groups was deafening. So it was dropped. Moral is, you can't save people from themselves. It's an untenable case now though. The costs to "save" it from the foaming Sea waves of old Neptune would be utterly outlandish :laughing:




The levies and canals worked fine versus the late hurricanes



Nochrome said:


> Before I was married I proved that you can survive on spaghettio's just fine



The Spaghetti-oes and Frozen Dinner diet?

Ugh.. I remember.


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## saabgoblin (Dec 18, 2008)

Can you say the Donner Party, then again, I do live in earthquake country and once you have experienced a concrete building roll like a wave you realize how fragile we are. I see it as living as comfortably through a rough patch then I can always eat insects, rats, and especially pigeon, I hear that they are really fantastic especially stuffed with dandelions.:nana:I agree that it can go too far but I really like what an old friend says about being prepared.

"I enjoy having everything planned out with all of the details put in place so I can just sit back and relax while I watch all of my plans fall apart".

All kidding aside, they don't call them catastrophes and disasters for no reason and if having a long running light and whatever else at hand that will put your mind at ease then so be it. I guess it all depends on your level of neurosis weighted against your probabilities. "Those who fail to plan, plan to fail" So what are your risk factors and then figure from there but keep that case of Twinkies because all of those preservatives will help you last through just about anything.


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## jusval (Dec 18, 2008)

Power outages?

Funny, I guess I'm too old........... I use candles..........

or the fireplace.........

When the power goes out, I only use the flashlight to get to the nearest candle.......


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## saabgoblin (Dec 18, 2008)

You're not too old, you are just seasoned as long as you don't have a gas leak in the house, if you do then you will be seasoned and fried.:nana:Now I need an explosion proof flashlight fore emergencies, oh yeah, I already have one.

Now I can't wait til someone makes a joke about being old and having a gas leak I just did.


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## Stereodude (Dec 18, 2008)

jusval said:


> Power outages?
> 
> Funny, I guess I'm too old........... I use candles..........
> 
> ...


Don't burn them too bright. You don't want the neighborhood cavemen to get jealous and be attracted to your house. oo:


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## Sgt. LED (Dec 18, 2008)

:tinfoil:
I am a survivalist! It's like a hobby...........yeah, that's it.


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## D-Dog (Dec 19, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> Don't burn them too bright. You don't want the neighborhood cavemen to get jealous and be attracted to your house. oo:



lol, that means these are off limits :naughty:

Anyhow, I was thinking about this problem a little more last night and remembered a solar light that came out a few years again called the BoGo Light. Assuming the massive blackout wasn't caused by the sun exploding, you could recharge the light by a window during the day and then use it at night. With 6 or 9 25,000 LEDs (I think) it would be perfect for general navigation and even walking around rooms...

And I'm fairly sure they were only 40 or 50 dollars, plus they would send one off to a family in Africa who needed one as a bonus :thumbsup:


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## Juggernaut (Dec 19, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> Don't burn them too bright. You don't want the neighborhood cavemen to get jealous and be attracted to your house. oo:


 
:laughing:, Just don't pull the curtains closed...they may set on fire!


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## PCC (Dec 19, 2008)

While it is true that most of us don't need to plan for major catastrophies there are those of us who live in areas that it would be prudent to do so. These would be areas with fault lines (where I live), hurricane zones, "Tornado Alley", near volcanoes, etc. That's why I've been following this thread with great interest.

Reading this thread, I realized that most of my battery operated lights have relatively short run times, regardless of brightness. I've decided to make a few 9V electric candles with the kids for the next extended blackout or "The Big One" that everyone is predicting will hit San Francisco. I've also started planning a few long runtime lights that have some kick to them that can be relied upon to provide bright light even weeks after a major event and hours upon hours of usage.

With regards to candles, people with younger children would probably not find this option to be viable. People who live in earthquake territory probably would not, too, as a gas leak and lit candles are a recipe for disaster.


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## jusval (Dec 19, 2008)

http://www.bogolight.com/

Yes they do make them and now you can choose where the other light is shipped to........ for $50.00

Hand crank and solar lights are a viable option. Batteries are still a limited and short lived resource.

If my gas main were to break, such as in a tornado or earthquake, I think I would be moving away from my home, just as far and as fast as I could, before I turned on a flashlight, candle or torch or lit my cigarette.


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## RobertM (Dec 19, 2008)

You know, you guys got me thinking...

For a dedicated power outage light, would this work:
3D Mag
3 D-cell alkaline cells
Cree Q2 driven to 50mA

If a Duracell D-cell is ~15,000mAh, it should run for about 300 hrs. correct? Or about 37 days when used 8 hours per day?


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## Cydonia (Dec 19, 2008)

RobertM said:


> You know, you guys got me thinking...
> 
> For a dedicated power outage light, would this work:
> 3D Mag
> ...




Sounds good. Direct drive a Nichia DS Led with warm tint from 3D's and you'll have 7 or 8 lumens for... months? 
My power outage lights are the 1AA Inova X1's aimed up at the ceiling. They are just single Nichia BS and CS leds lights. And that's plenty of light for me. I find it sort of strange why people need *so much* light :thumbsdow
I've come to the conclusion that there is a great variability - *a massive variability* - between peoples eyes and their low light sensitivity. I'd be scared to have eyes that needed so much light... that's a serious handicap not to be laughed at.

What I like are homemade LED bulbs. Take 1 super bright yellow 5mm LED Trim the leads, get the tweezers and fine copper wire and hook it up in a 1/4 watt 30ohm resistor. Get an old PR base bulb. Break out the glass, clean out the base. Fish out the thin copper bulb wires - hook up your new LED. Test it. Fill the PR base with epoxy. Now you've got an insane bright yellow bulb that runs direct from 2 cells nice and cool with no heat at all. Run time? Insane. Cost? $1? :ironic:


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## RAF_Groundcrew (Dec 19, 2008)

I think 'dim' lights with long runtimes always have a place, not just for survivalist worst case scenarios. 

I used to be die-hard Surefire all the way, because of the high lumen count and quality of construction. I still have 'some' Surefires, including an M6 that I hardly use because of the running cost in batteries, but I use 'other' lights more and more these days.

I have a Fenix L1D, a Jetbeam Jet1Pro, both running on AA cells, and my most used light recently is an Inova 24/7 in olive green. My first impressions on seeing this light in brochures was dislike - I thought it looked ugly as sin, and too big. It's styling is unique, and grew on me. It's not as big as it looks, and in green, it's not as 'in your face' as the yellow version.

I do part time voluntary EMT work, and the low level white light on this light is great for doing paperwork in the vehicle whilst my driver is returning from a job, and the other modes are always there if needed (can't wait for a real opportunity to use the multi-colour strobe mode).

In the pocket of my EMT jacket is a Pelican 3610PL angle head AA light with GITD bezel for the times when I ned a bit more light, and I also have an LED head torch in the other pocket.

So yes, whilst I still love Surefire, I have come to realise that there are other makers of quality lights that fit my needs.

I also have a couple of the older version Surefire L1 lights, (the ones with 90 hours on low), the ones immediately prior to the Cree versions. I think the move by SF to 'improve' the L1 by increasing both the low and high output, whilst reducing the maximum runtime was completely the opposite of my requirements for the L1.


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## loneranger (Dec 19, 2008)

I live in earthquake country and have a few young children. I value long run-times, simpler designs, and general toughness in flashlights. Here are the reasons:

1. In a big earthquake, I imagine power may be out for weeks. 

2. I stockpile lots of batteries--mostly alkaline, some Eneloops, and some Lithiums. But there's no telling what might happen to them. The battery stockpile is trapped under a pile of debris. I might be too busy with other survival tasks to deal with debris removal until later. If I'm stuck away from home, my family may not have the strength/skill to remove the debris. Also, the batteries might be destroyed, such as in a fire. 

3. Kids sometimes leave the batteries on overnight and forget to turn them off. They won't notice until the next evening, so they would've already used 18 hours or so of capacity. If this happens a few times, it could become a concern.

4. My neighbors, friends, and relatives are generally not as well prepared as I am. I'm sure they'll be asking for flashlights and batteries because they know I am prepared. I keep some Fauxtons and Dorcy 1AAAs around for this reason.

5. I will have enough concerns about food, water, shelter, and medical problems. I don't want to worry about running out of batteries.

I plan to use the dimmer lights for area lighting, AA lights for personal use, headlamps for tasks involving both hands, and throwers for the occasional emergency, SAR, etc.

The same is true of general planning. I keep extra water and food (aside from my family's stockpile) because I don't want to turn away a hungry friend, family member, or neighbor who didn't prepare.


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## Tiff (Dec 19, 2008)

I think a couple of battery powered lanterns such as the Rayovas with 3 D cells seem like a safe bet for indside the house. We did lose power for a long time and now we have 8" on the ground and possible power outages if this keeps up. I don't think just one light will work for all your needs. Yes you need a bright light something that can really throw the light (name your poison) and maybe a pocket sized light (L1D, D10, etc...) and a few lanterns (Rayovac, Coleman etc...) to provide room illumination and battery power is a must if you have animals that can knock over candles. Plus a few low power lights (a good AAA light)
I think that is a minimum of what you would need.


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## KiwiMark (Dec 19, 2008)

I tested my EDC last night - the first setting is as low as the IBS system lets me set it. On minimum output off my 1 x 14500 light I could shine it on the ceiling and see the objects in my room - admittedly I could not see colour, but I wasn't testing for selecting a co-ordinated outfit to wear. On medium it was easier to see and I could make out some colour. On high I could see colours easily and my eyes are good enough so that I could read small writing from that light reflecting off the ceiling.

In a civil emergency I would often find I simply need enough light to not walk into the furniture - if that is all I need then low output is enough, and gives me a week of use from that one torch with one battery. I have 3 fully charged spare 14500, if I was able to grab them I could run my EDC for 4 to 6 weeks if needed.


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## Culhain (Dec 19, 2008)

I used to live a neighborhood where the power went out quite often. My standing joke was that every time a cloud passed over we lost power.

Overtime, I accumulated enough supplies to make life easier.

Lighting was provided by two Coleman white gas lanterns, two Coleman propane lanterns, two Aladin table lamps and two Dietz lanterns. Candle lanterns with no drip candles were also kept on hand for night light use.

Cooking turned out to a bigger problem than lighting. A Primus two burner propane camp stove converted to run off 20# refillable tanks will run for almost ever.

Today, post divorce, I still have the stuff mentioned above, but it's in an offsite storage locker as there is not enough room in my apartment.

During a recent week long power outage, I got by using four Mag LEDs ( two 2Cs and two 2Ds). Cooking was done using a cannister fueled backpacking stove.

Since then, I have added two Mag 3Ds for more lighting. Also, I retrived my Primus stove and case of disposable cannisters from storage. I still need a headlight suitable for reading at night.

Our last power outage covered a large area. A friend and I drove around for hours on the second night trying to find a store with batterys or ice without luck. We did find gas stations open and were able to top off our car's gas tanks.

Since then, my planning estimates have been revised and my new goal is having 4 to 6 weeks of fuel, food and light on hand. Still lacking storage space, I recently put a set of six foot tall storage shelves in my bedroom. They may look like hell, but still the sight is comforting. Every time I go to the grocers I pick up extra rice, beans, pasta etc.

In my apartment there is no option for generators or wood stoves and they do not have fireplaces. But, I have a pair of winter sleeping bags, rated for -10*F, that will provide adequate sleeping comfort.

Yes, like others, I do worry about my neighbors, or rather my neighbor's children, since most crimes are committed by younger folks, but the prolific genius of John Moses Browning provides solutions.


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## Ralph_S (Dec 21, 2008)

Wearing headlamps: When the electricity goes out, I mainly wear my Myo XP headlamp, on low and with the diffuser. Low is enough for washing dishes, etc. I may buy a Zebralight, for even smoother and broader coverage of what's underfoot, at the same time as coverage of what I am heading toward. My reasons for using a headlamp include minimal energy use, light right where I want it, and hands-free use. Comfort and good diffusion are my reasons for using the Myo XP, and for considering the Zebralights. I have and use other lights, but indoors, I mostly rack up the hours while wearing headlamps.

Not in bathroom: The main exception is in the bathroom, where I may not be able to wear a headlamp. I want more light when I'm in the shower, so I won't fall. When I'm in front of the mirror to clean teeth, shave, etc., a headlamp would glare in my eyes. Instead, I hang a Freeplay Sherpa crank light from a carabiner, and bounce light off the ceiling.

Safety: "Each year unintentional CO poisoning not linked to fires kills about 500 Americans and poisons at least 15,000" (CDC). A carbon monoxide detector and fire extinguisher are wise, especially if your backup electricity, light, or heat involve combustion.

Storing light: When it comes to very-long-term storage of lighting capacity, carbide lights come closer to holding their own. My carbide in tightly-closed containers is in the same usable condition as 30 years ago. I once saw a candle, intended for emergency use, that contained a grub, which had chewed in about an inch. Not a likely event, but it helped me to realize that long-term storage can fail for many reasons.

Storing water: It probably is more trying to be without clean, running water than to be without mains electricity. In recent years, I have been lucky enough to have had clean, running water, even when the electricity has been off. In the absence of clean water, I probably would hoard my water supply for drinking and food, and slacken off on personal hygiene.  
Speaking of water, the Steripen looks interesting -- another use for a light and batteries.

Storing food: If you have any chance of mice or larger critters, or you get tired of dust, or you want stuff to be out of sight, then metal storage cabinets may be more satisfactory than storage shelves. I am thinking of the kinds that are about 6.5' high x 3' wide x 2' deep (deep and wide for stability). The problem with metal storage cabinets, is that the vertical panels of metal storage cabinets may be made of very thin sheet metal, which can get bent in transit.


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## tygger (Dec 21, 2008)

As others have mentioned, when there's little to no ambient light, your eyes adjust really quickly to the dark and you'll find yourself looking for the dimmest light/setting you've got. Anyone who's gone camping can attest to that. I look at it this way, dim lights just happen to have long runtimes.


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## Cydonia (Dec 21, 2008)

Since headlamps were mentioned a few times I thought I'd throw this out there:

I added a few of these to one of my orders from batteryjunction earlier this year. I didn't expect the Nite Ize "headband mini flashlight holder" to be any good. But it turns out these cheap things are surprisingly effective. 
It's strong nylon webbing with velcro. It doesn't smell of toxic rubber and doesn't contain any glue or foams (Very important to me). The elastic holder part is on the outside and works with many light sizes. There are actually two elastic holders in one. I find that a minimag with SMJLED drop in makes a really good headlamp. The light is held tight and doesn't fall out. It is easy to modify this light holder in a lot of ways if needed. And if one wants brighter, just put in another different flashlight, or minimag with a brighter terralux drop in. 

I never could find a dedicated headlamp that I liked. But this way any flashlight can become a headlamp. It's such an obvious solution that maybe it has been overlooked...


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## Sub_Umbra (Dec 21, 2008)

Most here probably know my thoughts on this. I'm a dim light culture guy who also always stocks bright lights for emergency tasks that require them -- some medical and security tasks will always seem to require more light than one has.

I'd like to comment on the formulas that some posters on this thread have used to estimate just how many hours of darkness one must be prepared for each day. Those numbers are *generalizations* and as such are hopelessly flawed for the purpose of emergency planning. Let me give you just a couple of examples that no one has noted here that will help show that those confident estimates may be very dangerous in any number of emergency situations:

 As some have correctly noted there are serious 'epic' disasters which may cause a tear or a total breakdown of the social fabric. (Been there, done that, got the smelly T shirt). If the event is serious enough the social order will break down in even the best neighborhood. History confirms this in spades. One may be two or more days into the event before it is even possible to guess _how bad things really are._ If things are really bad and you are thoughtful enough to black out your windows to help mask your presence the formula guys will probably be very surprised to find that their house is now dark inside *24 hours a day* and light will need to be provided for all tasks at all times. _Dim lights with long runtimes will always trump superficial need projections._ Emergencies may lead to situations that are hard to predict.
​
 Your health and the climate you live in may make darkness estimates worthless in many situations. There are many parts of The States where if the power goes down there will be many who will be forced to *reverse their schedule* and only attempt many tasks after dark when it's cooler. Depending on location, *even healthy people* may have to shift their hours to be productive without AC and all of the other wonderful things that they are used to -- after the power goes out. 
These are only two examples of why it may be dangerous to make simple assumptions *based on normal, day to day experience* when estimating how much light one may need when making emergency plans. There are other reasons which will become apparent with a little thought.

The moral is to plan big and hope small. Try to give yourself all of the options you can -- _because you just won't be able to think of everything._


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## Stress_Test (Dec 21, 2008)

On the whole "epic disasters and break down of social fabric" issue, I think that's a bit beyond the scope of the OP's topic, but...

If you're talking about a Katrina-style disaster, then I think the bigger issue in a case like that would be what firearms and how much ammo you have rather than what lights and batteries you have.

In my case it would've been a moot point because I wouldn't have been in that city in the first place with the hurricane bearing down, even if I had to sleep in my car in a park somewhere.

I mean, some cases, you just gotta know when to cut your losses and get the h*ll out of dodge.


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## Sgt. LED (Dec 21, 2008)

Stress_Test said:


> I mean, in some cases, you just gotta know when to cut your losses and get the hell out of dodge.


 
I like that. Good advice, a little funny, and would make a good sig line.


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## brucec (Dec 21, 2008)

I use only CR123 for EDC, but at home, I have two L2Ds with NiMH batteries. These are my primary blackout lights. I use them tailstanding at FULL BLAST in turbo mode which makes for a very nicely lit environment for about 2 hours for each light. I have yet to encounter a blackout that lasted more than the L2Ds cumulative runtime. This for normal sporadic blackouts that don't have any major news associated with them. If I know the blackout is due to something more serious, like an earthquake or flood, then I would probably be more conservative. And that's what CR123s are for.


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## Sub_Umbra (Dec 21, 2008)

There are no accurate statistics that relate how many people died evacing K in car parks and other places. It* is* known that more Houstonians died _running from Rita_ than those who stayed in the city. This is nowhere near as simple as many would like to think.

This subject has no simple, knee jerk answers that work. Do what you have to do. 

One more thing -- if anyone thinks this is all about hurricanes they are doomed. *We live in an era of evacuation.* The threats we face and the canned government responses to them imposed on us today are unprecidented in human history. Anyone who thinks, "It can't happen here," has no understanding of the world that they are passing through. I know that many will have no idea what I'm writing about. That's ok, I only write for those that do.

Having good lights and being able to hide their use from others has worked very well for me. I'm not just talking about some random thoughts I've had about this -- I've done it under the most extreme of situations. Judging from the resistance I always meet from 'the fight it out crowd' I must admit that it must be a counter-intuitive strategy. I keep mentioning it because I know that it has the potential to help those who grok it in the challenges that some of them will surely face in the years to come.


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## Ralph_S (Dec 22, 2008)

*Prevention versus cure -- OT*

This comment is a different perspective on the somewhat-off-topic theme of dealing with major crises. 

We may put thought into responding to major crises, by preparing to take care of ourselves, or family, friends, and neighbors. This is natural; but if everyone does this, we reach a local optimum, not a global optimum, which is like climbing to the top of a foothill, not the mountain whose peak we really want to reach. If we could spend a fraction of our time helping to make major crises less likely in the first place, we might be better off. I won't suggest specifics in this thread, because I don't want to discuss politics or other hot-button topics. We are geared up to brighten the corner where we are, literally and figuratively, but we can enjoy our lights with more peace of mind, if we try to make major crises less probable. Thanks for listening


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## Riddick (Dec 22, 2008)

I'm with Sub Umbra on this, low and slow and under the radar is the best approach (at least for me also)

Now when I was young and dumb you tend to be a little louder and a little more bravado and a little more in your face attitude, you know kinda like a athlete when he accomplishes something amazing. But in crises when family and friends might be depending on you and each other its best to be subdued.

Now I know the gun crowd (and I'm a quiet member) and they got this and they'd do that and whatever all I know is That when I make my move no one will ever see it coming. Trust me Sub Umbra is right low, slow, and under the radar. I haven't met the person yet that can take on a mob, 3-4 or more at once, and I know some pretty well trained folks

No offense was meant to anyone, just food for thought. Great topic I love reading threads like this:twothumbs


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## Zatoichi (Dec 22, 2008)

*Re: Prevention versus cure -- OT*



Ralph_S said:


> If we could spend a fraction of our time helping to make major crises less likely in the first place, we might be better off.



I like that. :thumbsup:

I don't really understand some of the posts here, so I guess I'm not destined to be the Omega Man, but just a guy with some decent flashlights and a comfortable supply of batteries in a power cut.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Dec 23, 2008)

Riddick said:


> I'm with Sub Umbra on this, low and slow and under the radar is the best approach (at least for me also)
> 
> Now when I was young and dumb you tend to be a little louder and a little more bravado and a little more in your face attitude, you know kinda like a athlete when he accomplishes something amazing. But in crises when family and friends might be depending on you and each other its best to be subdued.
> 
> ...



As a blackbelt, I'll let you in on a secret to self-defense. When fighting two against one, it's best to line them up and fight them one at a time. When you're surrounded by more attackers, take out the biggest guy and run away through the gap they left. If you stay surrounded by many attackers, of course you're going to lose. The trick is to stay out of that situation or get out of it as soon as possible. You don't have to fight more than one bad guy at a time if you know what to do. Just remember that your goal in self-defense is to stay alive, not to risk your life to try and take out every attacker. 

As for using dim flashlights to avoid people seeing you as a target, I think it depends on the situation. Sometimes, shining a bright light on potential troublemakers will make them think you're a cop and they'll avoid you (or shoot at you). They may also be trying to sneek up on you and spotting them from a distance may make them think twice and go after an easier target than you. However, if your area was evacuated and you stayed behind by choice (I wouldn't suggest doing this), bright lights may let the police know you're there and you could be pulled away from your home kicking and screaming. I don't think there is any reason why we shouldn't have both bright and dim lights. Dim lights are great for waiting out the disaster without depleting your resources while remaining hidden. Bright lights are needed for spotting dangers, search and rescue, signalling for help, accessing the damage, cleanup, and temporarily disorienting troublemakers. I prefer to have both bright and dim lights during an outage since which one you use may be determined by why there was an outage and your current circumstances.


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## bobrip (Dec 23, 2008)

*Re: Prevention versus cure -- OT*



Ralph_S said:


> This comment is a different perspective on the somewhat-off-topic theme of dealing with major crises.
> 
> but we can enjoy our lights with more peace of mind, if we try to make major crises less probable. Thanks for listening



I can appreciate what you are saying and it probably is a good idea, but the less likely any disaster is then the less people are prepared when it happens. I suggest that we have periodic planned blackouts. Say at least once a year, all services (power, water, phone, TV) be stopped for several hours. The length of outages would not be known ahead of time. This would make people think about being prepared. 

Some people have stated that they only have power outages that are short. I found that the length of an outage largely depends on how many people have lost power. We have ice storms and hurricanes in VA and they can cause many people to loose power. We lost if for seven days during hurricane Isabel and have had several 3 or more day outages during my life. I suggest that no one think that all of their outages will be short term. Certainly you cannot prepare reasonably for a very long outage, but several days is not that difficult.


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## D-Dog (Dec 23, 2008)

*Re: Prevention versus cure -- OT*



bobrip said:


> I can appreciate what you are saying and it probably is a good idea, but the less likely any disaster is then the less people are prepared when it happens. I suggest that we have periodic planned blackouts. Say at least once a year, all services (power, water, phone, TV) be stopped for several hours. The length of outages would not be known ahead of time. This would make people think about being prepared.
> 
> Some people have stated that they only have power outages that are short. I found that the length of an outage largely depends on how many people have lost power. We have ice storms and hurricanes in VA and they can cause many people to loose power. We lost if for seven days during hurricane Isabel and have had several 3 or more day outages during my life. I suggest that no one think that all of their outages will be short term. Certainly you cannot prepare reasonably for a very long outage, but several days is not that difficult.



Great idea... but imagine the public's outcry... "OMG... like I can't text my bff for like 2 hrs like..." From teens like these to older people who may need the services... I doubt there would be open-arm acceptance... too bad too, as I am for the idea.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Dec 24, 2008)

*Re: Prevention versus cure -- OT*



bobrip said:


> I can appreciate what you are saying and it probably is a good idea, but the less likely any disaster is then the less people are prepared when it happens. I suggest that we have periodic planned blackouts. Say at least once a year, all services (power, water, phone, TV) be stopped for several hours. The length of outages would not be known ahead of time. This would make people think about being prepared.



I have to disagree on having planned blackouts to get people thinking about being prepared. For some, that may be like shooting them in the chest to get them to buy and wear a bulletproof vest. The loss of electricity means more than an inconvenience. It means lights out in operating rooms at hospitals, no oxygen pumps working for elderly and disabled people, no water to communities or for fighting fires, no lights on in houses where most people use candles during blackouts (and either start a fire or get carbon monoxide poisoning), no phones, few cell phone calls getting through, no T.V. to get the news (especially after the digital transition in February), no air conditioning for people who can't take the heat during the summer, and no heaters working in the winter. A prolonged outage means everyone's food goes bad and grocery stores closed. Any government official would know that it would be political suicide to cut people's power when there is no disaster, especially when there have been so many lately. 

However, I think we could use a blackout drill in our communities. The city or town government could send out pamphlets about what you should have and what to do during a blackout. People could voluntarily shut power off at their home circuit breaker and practice what needs to be done during different blackout senarios. 

By the way, next year, our local electric company, SDG&E is planning to cut power to areas that have high fire danger and high winds. They were sued for starting some of the last fires because of downed power lines. I think it's a disaster waiting to happen as the power lines are only one way a fire can start. It would cause trouble for the people in the area if a fire was started anyway or spread from somewhere else. No water would be available in the area to hose down homes or to fight the fires. People couldn't find out ahead of time that they need to evacuate without up to date information from TV. Phones may not work and cell phones become useless when everyone uses them at once. People may not be able to cook, shower, do laundry or dishes, or refrigerate food. Imagine trying to pack up to evacuate in the dark with most of your clothes dirty and your supply of batteries, canned food, and stove fuel partly depleted because of a multiday blackout beforehand.


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## bobrip (Dec 24, 2008)

*Re: Prevention versus cure -- OT*



Hooked on Fenix said:


> I have to disagree on having planned blackouts to get people thinking about being prepared. For some, that may be like shooting them in the chest to get them to buy and wear a bulletproof vest. The loss of electricity means more than an inconvenience. It means lights out in operating rooms at hospitals, no oxygen pumps working for elderly and disabled people, no water to communities or for fighting fires, no lights on in houses where most people use candles during blackouts (and either start a fire or get carbon monoxide poisoning), no phones, few cell phone calls getting through, no T.V. to get the news (especially after the digital transition in February), no air conditioning for people who can't take the heat during the summer, and no heaters working in the winter. A prolonged outage means everyone's food goes bad and grocery stores closed. Any government official would know that it would be political suicide to cut people's power when there is no disaster, especially when there have been so many lately.
> 
> However, I think we could use a blackout drill in our communities. The city or town government could send out pamphlets about what you should have and what to do during a blackout. People could voluntarily shut power off at their home circuit breaker and practice what needs to be done during different blackout senarios.
> 
> .



Hooked, you raise some good points and exactly fall into my point. We are so dependent upon the utilities, that we have a catastrophe if we don't have them. We need to be better prepared. Don't hospitals have emergency generators. Do people with oxygen not have a backup. Etc. 

I am sure that no government would approve this. So let's push for outage drills. Of course the people who are already the most prepared will be more prepared, and those who are not and really need the most work will still not be prepared. During one hurricane my sister in law who is a nurse had to help in an evacuation shelter. It had emergency generators, but no one initially knew what was powered and what was not. Even one drill a year would have helped that situation. At least we would get people to stock up on a little food, batteries and run their generators.

Oh yes, a lot of warning would be needed for an actual outage, just like we are doing for the digital TV change. Is that more important that food, water, lights, etc? I guess it is. Actually this would be like getting a bullet proof vest and then shooting them in the chest.

BobRip


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## Zatoichi (Dec 24, 2008)

If hospitals wouldn't know what to do in a power cut, something should be done about that. As for homes, I don't think having to make a sandwich in the dark is an emergency, and if my power was cut off to prepare me for a power cut, I'd be extremely annoyed. I've lived through plenty of power cuts, and they ranged from fun to inconvenience. It's up to the individual to decide how prepared they need to be. If you're at risk of an _actual disaster_ that might include a power cut, then some preperation for that disaster would be advisable.


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## SureAddicted (Dec 24, 2008)

D-Dog said:


> I understand conserving power is important, however, does it really hurt things to run a fenix/other multi-level at say medium instead of low?
> 
> I also understand that your eyes adjust to the lower light, however, one brighter light in the middle of the room with a diffuser could be sufficient for a whole room or two.
> 
> ...



I agree with you D-Dog. I have only 1 flashlight that has a low beam (5 lumens) and I find it utterly useless. I have not used it once nor will I. The same goes for household lighting. I'm sure most of the respondee's here have bright lighting in the household, I'd love to see them all living with the lowest watt bulb available, it's just not practical. I use 100W bulbs in large rooms 75W in smaller rooms. I would never use 25W because it's just to little light. I would rather use candles than use anything that has ~5 lumens, its more cost effective. And if your prepared, you would not worry about extra cells because you'd be prepared. 
Being in the middle of a blackout is depressing enough, let alone having insufficient lighting.
Then again, this is just my opinion.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 24, 2008)

dim is ok to navigate.... but you need about 20 lumens to relax in a room as 10 is dim and either makes you tired or strain to see things clearly more than getting around. I think a 4 watt fluorescent or 3watt LED lamp is a decent area light for a compromise and off 4AAs should run 6-8 hours or a night and you can have a dozen batteries and recharge them every 2-3 days from a car or someone that has a generator nearby.


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## fieldops (Dec 25, 2008)

I also agree with Sub Umbra. There's a old saying that stealth keeps health, and that certainly applies here. Discretion is certainly the better part of valor in many cases. Sometimes attracting attention to yourself can be a dangerous option.


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## Grog (Jan 20, 2009)

D-Dog said:


> Anyhow, I was thinking about this problem a little more last night and remembered a solar light that came out a few years again called the BoGo Light. Assuming the massive blackout wasn't caused by the sun exploding, you could recharge the light by a window during the day and then use it at night. With 6 or 9 25,000 LEDs (I think) it would be perfect for general navigation and even walking around rooms...





Some people have used the solar yard lights in power outages. Let them charge in the day and bring them inside for "mood lighting" at night


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