# Miter Saw



## PEU (Aug 7, 2008)

I was offered one of these: http://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=product_det&tag=LS1040 at less than half local market price, do you guys know if it would be able to cut solid aluminium bars with the stock blade?


Pablo


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## Torque1st (Aug 7, 2008)

I have used a similar unit to cut 2x4" (50x100mm) hollow aluminum extrusions. It cut the aluminum like a hot knife thru butter. The cut finish was very good also.


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## PEU (Aug 8, 2008)

I know it can cut extrusions like you described, I wonder how it will behave with solid ALU rods


Pablo


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## n4zov (Aug 8, 2008)

Buried down in the saw's instruction manual is this: 

"Non-ferrous metals
miter saw
blades For miters in aluminum, copper, brass, tubing,
and other non-ferrous metals."

Apparently with the proper blades, it would cut aluminum, but you could email or call Makita to be sure. I do not believe it will cut aluminum with the stock blade, and I sure do not want to try. Just buy the right blade and you should be ready to go!


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## BIGIRON (Aug 8, 2008)

It's all in the blade. Just about any saw will cut anything with the appropriate blade and prudent operation.


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## jhanko (Aug 8, 2008)

I have that exact same saw. It is definitely capable a cutting solid aluminum, but not with that blade. It will be way too dangerous. Use a triple chip grind blade with a minimum of an 80 teeth, preferably 120.

Jeff


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## PEU (Aug 8, 2008)

JHanko said:


> I have that exact same saw. It is definitely capable a cutting solid aluminum, but not with that blade. It will be way too dangerous. Use a triple chip grind blade with a minimum of an 80 teeth, preferably 120.
> 
> Jeff



Whats your overall opinion about the machine?

I just finished talking with a local Makita dealer, and he told me that a restocking order is due next week and it included 120teeth blades at around $40 so I already reserved one 

Thanks!


Pablo


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## jhanko (Aug 8, 2008)

PEU said:


> Whats your overall opinion about the machine?



I've used it a lot including building a deck, a treehouse and remodeling the basement. I've cut quite a bit of 2" square aluminum tube with it too. The only time it ever struggled was cutting treated 4x4's. After all that, it still cuts accurate 45's for molding.

Jeff


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## mahoney (Aug 8, 2008)

I would suggest one of the dry-cut saws designed for steel from Porter-Cable, Jepson, Makita, or Dewalt. The stock blade on these is a modified triple chip carbide that will cut aluminium, although a blade designed for aluminium will give a slightly cleaner cut. Most important, they are designed with beefy clamps to secure the material while it's being cut.

I only make this suggestion because we have had some students in the shop learn the hard way that round stock spinning while it's being cut in a miter saw can be way more excitement than anyone needs in their life. We've had one injury from the operator grabbing the piece and getting sliced repeatedly by a burr on the end (6-8 shallow cuts a 1/4" apart on the palm of the hand) and a few operators who were lucky not to be injured. Cutting round stock at an angle is even more dangerous as a loose piece can be shot out the side of the saw. Round stock must be much more firmly secured while being cut than square or angle stock needs to be.

However, as the Makita saw is available for a good price, with the proper blade it will do the job. But do be sure that you work out a way to mount a clamp to the saw to firmly secure the round stock.


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## BIGIRON (Aug 8, 2008)

Mr. Hahoney knows what he's talking about. The saw pictured appears to have sockets to attach hold-down clamps. (the holes in the base just above the small holes used to attach to a bench, etc). Could be a worthwhile extra investment.


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## SafetyBob (Aug 9, 2008)

Until I got a dry cutoff saw, I used my miter saw with a very nice crosscut blade. Yes it was relatively expensive, but my old miter saw went to my neighbor with the original blade and as long as he and I both took our time, did not get agressive with the cut......everything was fine. 

I absolutely agree with others here, if you are going to use it alot, especially on round stock. Make a specific clamp or device that you can lock that metal down with. You do not want that round stock turning on you. 

And like others have said, if you have the capability, ask your local industrial supply house what they would recommend to cut aluminum with. Armed with what you have got here, you should be able to make a good decision. 

Bob E.


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## PEU (Aug 14, 2008)

Purchased it today, $246 including a wood blade and a 100 teeth blade, Im browsing the manual to know the details and setup procedures 


Pablo


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## jhanko (Aug 14, 2008)

PEU said:


> Purchased it today, $246 including a wood blade and a 100 teeth blade, Im browsing the manual to know the details and setup procedures
> 
> 
> Pablo



Congrats... Once you figure out a way to secure round material, you'll be all set. The only other thing I would recommend is that when cutting aluminum, remove the dust bag and connect a shop vac. The aluminum shavings will be thin (thinner than aluminum foil), light as a feather and have a static charge. They will stick to everything (walls, skin, clothes, etc.). Have fun!


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## will (Aug 14, 2008)

Like others have said - clamp any round stock down to the table before you cut.


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## PEU (Aug 15, 2008)

I turned it on today, I jumped back when I heard the loud noise, but then I gained courage and started again 
It really cuts aluminium like a hot knife to butter, I didnt expect such a nice and clean cut.

Here are some photos, the alu rod is 7075















I do need to find a way to attach my vacuum since the debris not always goes to the collecting bag.

Thanks for all the advise, Im happy with the purchase!


Pablo


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## will (Aug 15, 2008)

PEU said:


> I do need to find a way to attach my vacuum since the debris not always goes to the collecting bag.




I use my shop vac with a 2 1/2 inch hose for all my dust collection. Most large machines have ports to attach a vacuum hose. For the smaller ones I will sometime use one of the attachments and duct tape it to the machine. Other times, just the end of the hose. 

Cutting metal might be a problem as the metal comes off pretty hot, it might melt into the plastic vacuum attachments. 

Sometimes a placing cardboard box will be enough to catch the stray chips.


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## precisionworks (Aug 15, 2008)

That saw is designed to cut wood - as you found out, it will cut metal. The problem is that ALL saws for metal cutting (high-speed dry saw, low-speed cold saw, etc) clamp the part securely in a vise. If you can make or adapt some type of clamp, you can saw safely.

"But it works OK with no clamp" ... and it will until the blade gets just a little dull, you apply more downward pressure to make it feed, & the blade rips the part from your hand:shakehead

If you're going to cut Al on a regular basis, a small cold saw is the first choice ... my 9" Wilton is made in Italy, and built like a tank - but then, every cold saw is like that:






Just over 50 kilos, so it is somewhat portable. The blade turns at a screaming 52 rpm, and leaves a near-mirror finish on Al, steel, Ti, etc.


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## gadget_lover (Aug 15, 2008)

I need some clarification... what is a cold saw VS a hot saw? It sounds like a cold saw turns slower to avoid heating the metal. It also sounds a lot slower.

Thanks


Daniel


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## precisionworks (Aug 15, 2008)

> what is a cold saw VS a hot saw



Cold saws are primarily European in origin, although a few are American made. They are heavily constructed, mostly of cast iron, so the blade moves through a tightly controlled arc. The motor is normally attached directly to the speed reduction gear box which houses the blade arbor. Most turn around 50 rpm, although quite a few have a two speed motor (50 & 100 rpm) for cutting nonferrous. Blades are HSS, resharpenable, and flood cooled. Because of the gear reduction, torque at the blade is immense compared to any other metal cutting saw. They eat through steel bars as fast as you can lower the handle. Operation is quiet enough that you can hear people talk.

Dry cut metal saws are a variation on a wood cutting chop saw. They run at 1800 rpm, are powered by a low torque universal motor, use a carbide tipped blade, and make enough noise to wake the dead. They are designed to cut thin gauge metal studs used in commercial building construction, and they do an excellent job at that. They will cut solids, but blade life is short. I had the DeWalt MultiCutter & found that it gave the highest cost per cut of any saw in my shop.

Once you get past the sticker shock of the cold saw, you'll love the machine.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 15, 2008)

I worked for a company for years cutting extruded aluminum channel and track and other parts for cabinetry and showcases. They use carbide tipped blades on a standard chop saw and had special cans of spray on lubricant to both reduce cutting friction and dissipate heat. When we ran out I used WD-40 for a lubricant but it doesn't work nearly as well. If you are cutting a lot of thick material at one time you may want to look into some lubricant for the saw. It comes in standard spray cans but I don't remember the brand.


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## VegasF6 (Aug 16, 2008)

I don't think this wood saw was really the best choice for cutting metals. Besides the hold down issue, metal cutting saws should have a sealed motor to keep any chips from getting in and shorting out "stuff." And different bearings. Perhaps this applies more to steel. Now, I have seen many a miter saw being used as a chop saw, and it didn't kill it right away, but it should shorten the life. 
I agree a cold saw is wonderful, though somewhat pricey. I have used a large one at work a few times, and the cuts are so clean I couldn't believe it.
I would have recomended a cheaper metal cutting band saw. Or even a portable band saw. Dewalt does make a "multi cutter saw" that is kind of a cross between a chop saw and a miter saw. It is the DW872. I have tried to talk myself into replacing my chop saw with it, but I am just too cheap 
Milwaukee makes one as well, the 6190.

I am not trying to thread crap or anything, just wanted to point out some possible deficiencies. Of course, I could be way off on this, I have worked more with steel. I also have a Craftsman "twin cutter" and when cutting any non ferrous metals you use a lube stick, that is pretty much just a wax. Perhaps just a parrafin wax would work, I can't really comment on that.


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## MoonRise (Aug 16, 2008)

Pablo,

Although a miter saw can cut some aluminum, it is usually not quite the right tool for the job. As stated above.

A cold saw is called that because the chips coming off it are not red hot!

Although there can be and is some cross-over between cutting wood and metal and other things, some cross-over uses are acceptable and (mostly) safe. Others are marginal, and others are dangerous or wrong to varying degrees.

Please use the right tool for the job. Although you can often bash a screw into place (in wood or similar) with a hammer, that is not really the right tool for the job!

A bandsaw (bench, portable, or on a stand), a hand-powered hacksaw, a sawzall, a metal-cutting chop saw, a cold saw, etc, etc, etc are all more appropriate to cutting solid aluminum bars. Or a lathe.


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## PEU (Aug 16, 2008)

Argh! a week asking and receiving good advise, I make the purchase and then in one day 3 replies saying its not a good idea...

Anyway, I wont be using it to cut a lot of ALU, just the casual work, and if I see it as an unfit choice, I think I can sell it for more than I paid for it 


Pablo


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## VegasF6 (Aug 16, 2008)

I feel bad that I didn't see the post before you made your purchase, it is a very nice saw. Even if you don't use it for metal cutting, I am sure you will find other uses for it. Time for some nice new baseboards in your house? How about a play house for that cute daughter of yours? 

Seriously, it probably will hold up, just use the proper blade and some wax. 
I might consider bolting the saw to a heavy piece of plywood and mounting a pipe vise off to one side at the same height as the saw table. This would only work if your pieces are long enough of course. They make chain type one's, but I haven't used them. I prefer a regular vice with pipe jaws. Either an inexpensive 4" bench vice, or even a drill press vice would probably work out well. There is a model at sears, I have never used before, but it looks interesting. Search for item# 00951688000  on Sears website.

As long as you don't get hurt, that is what is most important. If the saw fails, you are only out a few dollars, we just don't want you to lose any skin  Enjoy your new toy.


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## gadget_lover (Aug 16, 2008)

Like many said, for occasional uses that will be fine. If you were doing production you would want a better setup. I (occasionally) cut aluminum on my wood bandsaw and I get away with it. 

You can get a drill press vice that you can bolt to that nice table or to the fence. They are fairly inexpensive. 

I'm in the market for a horiz/vertical band saw. Missed a used harbor freight model for only $40. 


Daniel


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## BIGIRON (Aug 16, 2008)

You can probably improvise a clamp by using Visegrips or a pipe wrench on longer pieces. A "V" block,(similar to a pipe vise) easily made, as a bed for the stock would help as well.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 16, 2008)

I think he will be ok, the place I worked at for years had one guy using one regular name brand chop saw cutting extruded aluminum 8-10 hours a day for years. He would go through a saw every year or so but as much as he cut he was just wearing the saws out. They had other saws that cut aluminum in the plant that were used less that as far as I know never were replaced in the 8 years I worked there. Most decent saws are sealed against sawdust in vital areas including shorting because sawdust could start fires inside a saw. If you have a sharp carbide tipped blade and allow the saw to not get bogged down too much it should have mostly chips off your aluminum. I figure if you use the saw an hour a day cutting aluminum it will last as long as any other saw if you clean it once in awhile to keep it free from dust in the bearings.


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## precisionworks (Aug 16, 2008)

> I make the purchase and then in one day 3 replies saying its not a good idea


My greatest concern in the shop (yours or mine) is to leave with as many eyes & fingers as I started with You may want to pick up a couple of the [FONT=arial,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]DW7052 [/SIZE][/FONT] DeWalt clamps like the one below (Amazan & most of the online tool stores offer them). The photo is in the vertical position, but they are used horizontally:







On the DeWalt saws (all their chop saws) there are holes cast into the base to mount the pin - not sure about your Makita, but this wouldn't be hard for you to adapt. If you can't find any, I'd probably part with a couple of mine.


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## PEU (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks guys!
I will make a holding device to improve safety while using it.


Pablo


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## MoonRise (Aug 17, 2008)

Definitely buy or make some way to securely clamp and hold the workpiece. Your hands do NOT count as a workpiece clamp. Especially when cutting metal.

As mentioned above, if the workpiece shifts just a tiny bit, all Heck will break loose. The piece will twist, the blade may launch carbide teeth from the sudden impact as the work twists and binds, the blade may launch the workpiece, parts may get suddenly and visciously pulled into, through, or across the blade area, etc, etc, etc.

You have to make sure that your hands are nowhere near the blade when you are cutting. Your one hand will be on the saw handle, your other hand should not be near the blade.

At 5000 rpm blade speed, things can happen fast. Literally in less than an eyeblink.

And remember this : The tool doesn't care. It doesn't care if it is cutting wood, or aluminum, or flesh, or bone.

So -you- have to make sure that the tool cuts what -you- want it to.

I still have all my fingers, attached where they are supposed to be, and never detached. And I really want to keep it that way. So I try and remind myself to be careful and think it through.

You can get wax sticks (or use some wax candles or a piece of canning/candle-makeing wax) to rub onto the blade before you cut aluminum. The wax helps keep the aluminum from 'gumming' up on the blade.

A power miter saw is a nice tool to have. For occasional, light duty, cutting of thin section aluminum tube or shapes, with the proper blade and some wax rubbed onto the blade and some clamps to hold the workpiece, it works OK to pretty well. It makes lots of aluminum chips (as you found out), and those chips get all over the place (as you found out).

But to me, a 1" (25mm) or so diameter solid bar/rod of aluminum is a bit past the 'light section' category.


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## HarryN (Aug 24, 2008)

I have used a similar saw for cutting occassional Al stock. (Dewalt version). I was in a hurry, and just decided one day to use the wood blade (carbide tips) to do the work. Cut it all dry - no lube at all. - yes, I know.

The cut rate was very high, and finish was ok for my work. The biggest danger for me was the very amazing way it threw the Al chips. They came from directions I was not used to for this saw, and at higher speeds.

My safety suggestion - consider wearing a mask which covers your entire face, not just safety glasses. Exposed skin is a bad thing with these saws cutting Al.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 24, 2008)

yes they do throw a lot of chips and they can get hot if you are cutting thick aluminum and not using anything for the blade. Cutting dry is fine as long as it is only occasionally and not heating up things a bunch that is not alot of cuts on thick material. We used regular chop saws to cut aluminum track for sliding doors at a shop I worked at often with no problems and then cut wood right after that including finished wood so you wouldn't want oil on the blade.


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## PEU (Aug 24, 2008)

When I purchased the blade for ALU I received good advise: dont push into the material, try to go slow. The shavings are so light they can fly but I dont think they can do any damage.
Anyway, I always have my safety glasses when Im machining/cutting stuff.


Pablo


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 24, 2008)

start out slow for sure if the material is thick don't try and cut faster then a slight slowdown of speed allows unless you are using a lubricant made for cutting aluminum on it I think it can heat up the blade and even possibly ruin the temper of the metal. Always wear safety glasses as tiny chips can be blown into your eyes if you don't by a stray wind as someone walks by or even opens a door perhaps. If you are doing a lot of cutting you may want to either look into a blade sharpening service or learn to do it yourself because good blades for cutting aluminum can be resharpened cheaper many times than buying a new one. When I was cutting aluminum I rarely changed a blade because I wasn't cutting constantly but the guy on the day shift was and changed it perhaps once every few days but he would do nothing but cut for 8-10 hours boxes and boxes of aluminum including pipe and handrail too (decorative).


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