# POP2 (PIC-O-PWM V2) with PICmicro Dual UI



## djpark (May 1, 2005)

*Introducing POP2 (PIC-O-PWM Version 2) with Dual User Interface*

I and a few users have been testing the new simpler UI with POP and we like it. The old UI and its features of POP are all still maintained in the POP2 and either UI can be selected by the user.

The original POP with the traditional UI (UI1) is found here including pictures, beamshots and run time charts.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=885491 


*Features*

- LDO based constant current regulation with li-ion battery
- Dual selectable UI (traditional and simpler version)
- 7Hz Strobe mode (instead of previous 5Hz). Many asked for faster strobe. I find the faster strobe has not much effect.
- Easy access to the default high and low brightness mode
- Last brightness level used is remembered when turned on next time
- Modified SOS mode (shorter pause between characters)
- survival mode with minimum current flow and lowest brightness for really long run time
- User selectable low mode brightness level
- optional burst mode for short duration brihter light output
- Provision for future firmware upgrade without replacing the controller IC

It is not a boost circuit and regular CR123 is not suitable to use. Maximum current flow to led is limited by the combination of battery voltage and led Vf.


*UI2 (new simple UI) operation*

In this mode, strobe and SOS are also treated as if one of the low brightness level.

- 1st ON: last used level (including strobe & sos)
- 2nd ON: alternative level
- 3rd ON: burst mode (if available)
- 4th ON: low mode brightness selection mode (also can select strobe and sos)
|
- 10th ON: UI selection mode

I find this one simpler than the traditional UI. But the sequence may change in future if more feedbacks are available.


*UI1 (traditional UI) operation = same as before*

- 1st ON: last used level
- 2nd ON: alternative (next) level
- 3rd ON: alternate again (=1st)
- 4th ON: alternate again (=2nd)
- 5th ON: burst mode (if available)
- 6th ON: survival mode
- 7th ON: strobe mode
- 8th ON: sos mode
- 9th ON: low mode brightness level selection
- 10th ON: UI selection mode


*UI selection*

At 10th ON, OFF during first light ON to get UI1, 2nd light get UI2.


*POP2-Q3*

The POP2 circuit is modded into a Q3. Actually the existing momentary OFF switch gives better shifting to the next mode.

The picture below shows Q3 board with dual LDO and reverse battery protection FET. The pcb was made to be a direct replacement for the existing board.







With TPS73201 as primary LDO for the high brightness mode, it runs about 450-500mA on constant current regulation. It gives slightly brighter output than using regular CR123 with the original boost circuit (green line).

Run time brightness was logged with 2 sets of li-ion batteries and various bins of Luxeon-III leds. The measurement was done in the room temperature of 34 degree C without a special cooling device. The value at left column has no meaning, it is just my logger ADC reading and only meaningful as relative comparison.






SY0K is the original Luxeon Star in Q3, TX1K is bought from Sandwich Shoppe and used in Arc-LS for some time before, so I expect the Vf could have been shifted lower now. R123 batteries has been heavily used and even abused with over-discharge to near 0 voltage a few times, so it is expected to contain less charge than new ones.

Raising tail of the brightness indicates the LDO is not able to hold on to the constant current regulation and it works as wide open from that point.

This run time chart may give some debatable ideas of brightness vs Vf. If you consider the Vf of TX1K shifted lower than or as low as new TX1J, higer Vf gives brighter light output for the same given led current. W=A*V formula may explain, but it is best discussed in LED section, not here.

The following beam shots are taken with TW0J for high brightness mode and burst mode on the wall 1m away using camera setup F2.8 1 second. The lux meter reading is 776 lux @ 1m for high mode and 1153 lux @ 1m for burst mode.

The low mode brightness is variable (actually over 200 levels of fine resolution), so it is not included for comparison.

The burst mode does bring slightly noticeable extra brightness.












*POP2-MiniMag*

The same circuit was put in the mini-Mag in the form of sandwich. One 14500 li-ion was used and a spacer was used to fill the empty space for the other AA battery length. This light may work well with cut down mini-mini-Mag for 1AA configuration.

A beam shot on the wall 1m away using low dome 1W Luxeon running 350mA.







I will take some video and more pictures when time is available.

Any comment or suggestion/recommendation are always welcomed.

-- dj


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## luminaria (May 1, 2005)

Are there any plans to sell the POP2-Q3 boards?


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## dabiscake (May 1, 2005)

Excellent surprise! I've followed your project from the start (got my PIC Arc AAA working too!), and it's getting more interesting every time! Very nice... any ideas on selling options yet? (circuit board ready to assemble, parts kit only like for previous version, new PIC V2 only to upgrade previously built circuit, etc..?) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## djpark (May 1, 2005)

Something good may be going to happen. Watch out!






Hint! Hint! Hint!


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## Jefff (May 1, 2005)

cool got my eye on this thread.. can't wait hope they arn't a bank breaker though ..


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## goldserve (May 1, 2005)

dj...I want a version 2 with PCB. I can solder and assemble myself =D


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## cgpeanut (May 1, 2005)

The sammie version is nice too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 






I got some cut down minmags and a CR-123 with UX1J and TWOJ already on stand by.


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## xpitxbullx (May 1, 2005)

I'm interested in a few if/when they become available. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Jeff


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## vacuum3d (May 2, 2005)

Next in line. Can't wait for v2 with Burst mode. Are you going to offer it as a kit with just loose parts as well?


ernest


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## Amorphous (May 2, 2005)

In line for two.


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## nekomane (May 2, 2005)

Is this a list? Please put me down for 2 sammies if so.


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## djpark (May 2, 2005)

A small number of pcbs were produced and they are in the airplane flying now. When they touch down, they may be offered for limited distribution by cgpeanut.

-- dj


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## Neg2LED (May 2, 2005)

ooh, me want one Sammie Version /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

any chance of a TK MicroMag unit for 14500s or Lithium AAs?

neg


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## MR Bulk (May 2, 2005)

Wow! Very nice workup, dj. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

So, the switch is the orignal Q3's tail button, except modified to be momentary?


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## Sengoku (May 2, 2005)

Im interested, please put me down for 1 q3 board.

Mr Bulk: the Q3 has a reversed momentary switch already when the light is 'on', so i think theres not need to modify the stock switch.


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## cgpeanut (May 2, 2005)

I will post in this thread as soon as it arrives, I have all the parts and equipment needed to build the Q3 and sammie boards 

I'lll be using a Metcal MX-500 soldering station with STTC-122 tip cartridge for SMD work and .015 diametet silver solder, I hope I do justice to the boards.











above parts I have on hand.


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## Marc (May 2, 2005)

I'm in for 1.


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## Wong (May 2, 2005)

I am in for 1 POP2-Q3 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif


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## djpark (May 2, 2005)

Thanks for the comment, Charlie.

Not surprisingly, this design of counting how many times the power has been applied in a short time actually works better with the momentary OFF switch like Q3 original switch.

Of course it works very well with momentary ON switch like a kroll as well. All depends on how a user train himself or herself.

It is very different design from a regular state machine. The biggest advantage is the ability to work in a light host which does not have a button switch to trigger action or no place to attach a button to the board.

A bit of secret leaking... There are some radical options or features planned (and partly tested) and the new firmware can be flashed to the preassembled board later when available.

-- dj


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## Anglepoise (May 2, 2005)

djpark
You say above that the board is designed for re chargeables.
Due to the popularity of 'unprotected' r123s, do you have
low voltage cutout, and if not, can this be added?


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## djpark (May 2, 2005)

Anglepoise,

This chart of led Vf vs current may suggest the answer to you.







Due to the nature of the led, most white luxeons will not even turn on or let the current flow with the forwarding voltage below 2V. Being an LDO design, the over-discharge protection is a builtin feature.

You can hardly touch 2.5V unprotected li-ion battery after leaving the light on for many hours after the light is too dim to use.

-- dj


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## djpark (May 2, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Neg2LED said:*
ooh, me want one Sammie Version /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

any chance of a TK MicroMag unit for 14500s or Lithium AAs?

neg 

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean this one? Left is POP2 + LD sandwich and right is MadMax + HD sandwich.






I have not tested 1.6V lithium battery yet. It may work if the led Vf is low enough. Even out of regulation, it is equivalent to DD and you should get what led takes from the battery.

-- dj


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## Anglepoise (May 2, 2005)

Please put me on the list for a QIII replacement board.


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## Weylan (May 2, 2005)

I feel sort of behind asking this, because I have seen this bantered about a bit, but what is an LDO circuit?

By the way, I am in for at least 1 when the boards come for sale. I am totally interested in variable output lights!


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## Weylan (May 2, 2005)

Cooking LIon cells is not good either. If you leave the light on, too long, having some kind of auto dim, or even auto off, would be a nice addition. If you get LIon cells too hot too they can thermal runaway! Are you considering this too?


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## cgpeanut (May 2, 2005)

@Waylan,

LDO stands for Texas Intruments Low-Dropout Regulator chip. It could be the TPS732xx 400mA output up to TPS736xx 600mA output. Now there's a 1 amp version TPS725xx which will be good for the Mag 3-4d but that's for another thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Check out the datasheet here


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## cy (May 2, 2005)

WOW, DJ, your POP sammie may make older sammies obsolete /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## djpark (May 2, 2005)

Not at all, cy. I am not in the league.

For LDO circuit to work effectively, it needs higher batter voltage than led Vf. So the battery option is still limited to a single li-ion. Perhaps 3 AA/AAA and 4 NiMh will work happily, 2 lithium cels (2 x 1.6V) or 3 NiMh may wor with lower Vf led.

This board came out of my ego of creating a useful EDC controller for myself since I can't afford one offered in CPF. So the configuration is based on what I use most and may not cover the all conditions.

The quest for the perfect EDC controller goes on and I know I want a buck/boost comby to suit various Vf led.

-- dj


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## Jefff (May 2, 2005)

I have a quick question .. still new to this type of thing .. but here is my question .. I have a Q3 already stock switch .. and already a TWOJ star.. will I need a whole new star and your board or can I get a board with leads to attach to my existing star.. I have already ordered 2 shan 650 vr123a's and nano charger.. I am mostly interested in the burst mode, strobe, low, reg on settings what board would I want? sorry if I am behind also on this but Im trying to keep up ..


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## cgpeanut (May 2, 2005)

@Jeff,

I'll be glad to build the Q3 POP2.22 board for you so you can put your own star /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

Wires will be color coded: red for positive and black negative, On the star itself it's clearly marked as well so it should be straight forward.

If you need additonal help pm me and I'll do my best to help you out.

--Roberto


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## Jefff (May 2, 2005)

Wow cool sounds like a plan.. let me know ball park price.... and thanks for offering .. I think it would be very cool to have a multi task light so small and cool


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## jdriller (May 2, 2005)

Put me on the list


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## wasBlinded (May 3, 2005)

I would definitely like one of the Q3 boards.


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## nexro (May 3, 2005)

DJPark,
this looks familiar /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I'm in for 3 of these boards!
PP ready.


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## MR Bulk (May 3, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*djpark said:*
Thanks for the comment, Charlie.

Not surprisingly, this design of counting how many times the power has been applied in a short time actually works better with the momentary OFF switch like Q3 original switch.

Of course it works very well with momentary ON switch like a kroll as well. All depends on how a user train himself or herself.

It is very different design from a regular state machine. The biggest advantage is the ability to work in a light host which does not have a button switch to trigger action or no place to attach a button to the board.

A bit of secret leaking... There are some radical options or features planned (and partly tested) and the new firmware can be flashed to the preassembled board later when available.

-- dj 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah'm in!


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## diggdug13 (May 3, 2005)

please add me to the list


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## Neg2LED (May 3, 2005)

Uh, could i change my pick of what i want?

One QIII version only please - and will this work of 3xAAA?

Also, i need it set up for me to use my own star - i retrofitting an MXDL torch from Emilion - it has a similar, if not the same, lighting unit as a QIII - does the QII have a small flat-ish puck style thing that screws into the top (under reflector?)

Thanks!

neg


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## cgpeanut (May 3, 2005)

@Neg2led,

There are two versions of the boards one designed specifically for the Q3 and the sammie version for the minimags,

Now will this work with 3 AAA? Now that's a loaded question /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif and we can debate about Vf of the lux, slow startup of the LDO etc 

I will say no sorry, it would probably go out of regulation early. Check the datasheet above, LDO's are designed for single li-ons 

Neg2led, I honestly don't know if it will work with "MXDL torch from Emilion" as we all know flashlight modding presents obstacles we have to overcome during the course of the mod, Now, if you want I can make you something like this specific to your light.






Now, it won't look as nice but it will be one of a kind /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif


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## cgpeanut (May 3, 2005)

I have the boards! 






@DJ, Thank you! They are "Professional Made" I'll be busy tonight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Jefff (May 3, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wow.gif


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## dbrad (May 3, 2005)

I'm in for one, too, please.


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## NetMage (May 3, 2005)

I'd like a Q3 board no star


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## Neg2LED (May 3, 2005)

i am fairly sure a qIII board will fit. isnt an LDO a buck regulator? if so, then it should work with 4.5volts....

neg


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## Billson (May 3, 2005)

What are the dimensions of the board? I'm wondering if it could be made to work with an aleph LE.


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## cgpeanut (May 3, 2005)

@Billson What's UP? I miss manila /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Does the aleph LE take a madmax or badboy sammie? If so, then may I suggest getting the sammie version because it has that same dimension. I don't have a aleph LE so I'm not 100% sure. 

Soon I'll be making a list of all interested parties, 

$40.00 + shipping for the Q3 board assembled without lux
$42.00 + shipping for sammie assembled without lux

I have 35 of each board available. 

--Roberto


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## Billson (May 3, 2005)

Hi Roberto,

If you live here, you'd wish you could be somewhere else so be careful what you wish for.

The aleph LE uses only a board but the dimension has to the same size as the badboy.

Thanks.


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## cgpeanut (May 3, 2005)

UPDATED THE LIST.

Here's the tentative list. Now, if I miss someone please say so, its entirely my fault, I can't see very well at this time, try wearing a 7x magnifying loop for a few hours you'll know what I mean /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Whoever's on the first list please state what you want sammie or Q3.

The rest indicated their preference.

Moved it to the last page.


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## cgpeanut (May 4, 2005)

@Neg2LED,

Just saw a pick of the light your'e talking about Yes, it will fit if has the same dimensions as the stock Q3. BUT the POP2 pcb is a thinner than the stock so depth might be an issue. 

@Billson,

POP2 sammie version has the dimensions as the badboy, madmax & downboy. It fits the AA mini-mag nicely check out DJ pics second page of this thread.


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## nexro (May 4, 2005)

cgpeanut,
3x Q3 boards /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## cy (May 4, 2005)

one q3 pop board and one sammie please


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## Jefff (May 4, 2005)

sorry thought ya knew from previous page.. ... Q3
[ QUOTE ]
@Jeff,

I'll be glad to build the Q3 POP2.22 board for you so you can put your own star 

Wires will be color coded: red for positive and black negative, On the star itself it's clearly marked as well so it should be straight forward.

If you need additonal help pm me and I'll do my best to help you out.

--Roberto 


[/ QUOTE ]


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## Billson (May 4, 2005)

DJ/Roberto,

How much current is going to the led at the various levels? I've only read 450-500 ma going to the led on high but what about low and burst mode?

I understand that this is a buck circuit. What is the max voltage the board can take. Can it use 2x123?

What is the price for the board only?

Thanks.


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## vacuum3d (May 4, 2005)

2 Sammies please.

thx,
ernest


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## xpitxbullx (May 4, 2005)

Make mine 3 x Q-III boards, please.

Jeff


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## nekomane (May 4, 2005)

Please change my order to (1)sandwich and (1)Q-III board. 
Sorry for the confusion and thanks for making these /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## diggdug13 (May 4, 2005)

I'd Like one of each please.

*edit*
yes and thank you for having the insight and knowledge to build these for us to show off with... Now all I have to do is buy some stars and a sodering iron...

doug


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## Neg2LED (May 4, 2005)

The PCB inside the MXDL is merely a contact board, but i reckon that i can fix it so this board will fit. it's a simple matter of removing a jumper pin and hooking in the new board. and if it doesnt fit, i'll be getting a qIII sooner or later.....

neg


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## koala (May 4, 2005)

1 Q3 board please!


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## cgpeanut (May 4, 2005)

List updated 

I have 5 TXOK's on hand if anyone wants I'll put them in at cost.

I'm trying to get TWOJ's from Fred, hopefullly I'll get some this week.

-Roberto


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## diggdug13 (May 4, 2005)

I'd like to get some TXOK put on mine if you are able to get some. please.

I requested one of each from you.

doug


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## diggdug13 (May 4, 2005)

I just checked the updated list. it doesn't indicate my request for one of each.

(1) Q3
(1) sammie

thank you
doug


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## cgpeanut (May 4, 2005)

@diggdug13: thanks, updated the list.


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## Monolith (May 4, 2005)

I'm in for one (1) v2 for Q3. Thanks.


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## jdriller (May 4, 2005)

Please update my order:

1 Q3 board
1 sammie with a TWOJ, and will
this board work with a rechargeable lith ion? Please advise of the min and max input voltages.

Thanks


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## diggdug13 (May 4, 2005)

thx for the update (and the LED for those of us w/o tools to accoplish task).

Just let me know when to send Paypal.

doug


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## Marc (May 4, 2005)

cgpeanut:
I'm in for one (1) Q3

thanks!


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## Marc (May 4, 2005)

I've already modded my Q3 with a dual stage switch and a 10ohms resistor. I'll just have to short the trace (resistor) and I'll be in business right?


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## xpitxbullx (May 4, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*xpitxbullx said:*
Make mine 3 x Q-III boards, please.

Jeff 

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget my changes, please. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jeff


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## MR Bulk (May 4, 2005)

Make mine two units if possible, one sammie and one Q3, both without Luxeons. If not possible (if you are sold out, yee hee!) then just a Q3 for my one original order.

Thank You.


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## cgpeanut (May 4, 2005)

@Monolith, added you to the list

@jdriller, added you to the list, I don't have a TWOJ yet but will get some from Fred, And YES POPV2 only runs with li-ons. 

@diggdug13, pm replied

@Marc, added you to the list, and YES! the dual stage resistor WILL CONFUSE the uPIC so take it/short it out.

@xpitxbullx, updated your request, WOW! thanks 

@Mr. Bulk, I know you have some nice UX1J's from your "private stash" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Let me know if your'e interested in a TXOK/TWOJ sammie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


goldserve 1, Amorphous 2, Jefff 1, jdriller 1, dbrad 1 please indicate your preference sammie or Q3.

Here's a copy of the updated list.

PUSHED it down to the last page and updating


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## Marc (May 4, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*cgpeanut said:*
*@Marc, added you to the list*, and YES! the dual stage 

goldserve 1, Amorphous 2, *Marc 1*, Jefff 1, jdriller 1, dbrad 1 please indicate your preference sammie or Q3.


It's the same Marc /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## cgpeanut (May 4, 2005)

oops, Thanks Marc fixing now.


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## jdriller (May 4, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*jdriller said:*
Please update my order:

1 Q3 board
1 sammie with a TWOJ.

Thanks 

[/ QUOTE ]


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## cgpeanut (May 4, 2005)

@jdriller, fixed


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## goldserve (May 4, 2005)

djpark,

Can firmware be upgrade to do debouncing because I find that the arc-ls cg made for me is a little jittery. I suspect it needs debouncing and not count as multiple on/offs. Thanks.


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## Marc (May 4, 2005)

Is the POP2 on high level with R123 dimmer than the stock circuit with R123? Coz I'm not really looking for something less bright even if it has longer runtime. thanks.


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## dbrad (May 4, 2005)

I'm deinitely in for the sammie version, TXOK please.
Thanks!


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## nekomane (May 5, 2005)

cgpeanut,
I still see myself listed for 2 sandwiches. Could you please change my order to *(1)sandwich* and *(1)QIII board*?
Thanks!


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## Jefff (May 5, 2005)

1 Q3 board with out star


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## xpitxbullx (May 5, 2005)

Would it be possible for this to be configured to run a Lux-V with 6AA?

Jeff


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## djpark (May 5, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*goldserve said:*
djpark,

Can firmware be upgrade to do debouncing because I find that the arc-ls cg made for me is a little jittery. I suspect it needs debouncing and not count as multiple on/offs. Thanks. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Goldserve,

Thanks for the comment.

As a matter of fact, there is 70 msec of debouncing builtin before accepting to take an action. In most applications, 40 msec is the common debouncing duration. I hope I don't have to debounce over 100 msec duration.

If there is unwanted on/off constantly, the mechanical parts may have unclean contacts beyond acceptable condition and you may want to open up and clean them, and also check the tension of any spring. 1 out of more than 20 lights I have exhibits the similar behavior and I have to clean it regularly.

If there are comments from many users, the debouncing duration will be increased.

-- dj


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## djpark (May 5, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Billson said:*
DJ/Roberto,

How much current is going to the led at the various levels? I've only read 450-500 ma going to the led on high but what about low and burst mode?

I understand that this is a buck circuit. What is the max voltage the board can take. Can it use 2x123?

What is the price for the board only?

Thanks. 

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an LDO (Low-Dropout Regulator) design and the max current is set by the LDO in use and the low mode is variable depending on what brightness you select.

I am not sure cgpeanut include the burst mode, you will have to check with him. If so, the burst mode current is close to the direct drive current yet limited by another LDO for safety. It varies depending on the Vf of led and the battery voltage.

Both PIC and LDO chps have max voltage of 5.5V and 2 x CR123 will give more than 6V and it is not recommended. However, the datasheet doesn't say it will 'burn' the chip, instead it will have impact on the 'life' and 'performance' of the chips. So you might want to try it anyway. You will never know the real result unless you have a long term test, don't accept the result of the short period test.

-- dj


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## djpark (May 5, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Marc said:*
Is the POP2 on high level with R123 dimmer than the stock circuit with R123? Coz I'm not really looking for something less bright even if it has longer runtime. thanks. 

[/ QUOTE ]

You may want to look at the run time chart in the first post. POP2 + R123 is slightly brighter than stock Q3 + CR123 and it provides as long run time as that.

However, it is not as bright as the original Q3 + R123. The original Q3 boost circuit on R123 provides about 30-40% brighter light at less than 1/2 the run time.

If you are looking for that much brightness, this LDO burst may not be the best way for you.

-- dj


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## Sengoku (May 5, 2005)

hi please change my order to:
1x q3
1x sammie


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## djpark (May 5, 2005)

Jeff,

Due to the max voltage specification of the chips, Lux-V can't be handled with current design. Perhaps, there may be a time I work on wider input voltage version with buck/boost option. But now I don't have time yet...

-- dj


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## Neg2LED (May 5, 2005)

cgpeanut,

One qIII board please - no sammie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

i change mind - and besides, if it no fit in MXDL i will find some other use /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

neg


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## nexro (May 5, 2005)

cgpeanut,
Due to certain circumstances, please count me out of this. I need to spend the money elsewhere.
Sorry /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


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## cgpeanut (May 5, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
Make mine two units if possible, one sammie and one Q3, both without Luxeons. If not possible (if you are sold out, yee hee!) then just a Q3 for my one original order.

Thank You. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Mr. Bulk I updated the list so you get 1 sammie and 1 Q3 no lux.


Adding the lux on the sammie is straight forward : 

Add thin coat 2 part AA to the emiiter board, center the lux, align the leds to the terminal poles, let it set, and solder.

I'll mark the emitter board positive and negative so there's no confusion hopefully.


Updated the list


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## Marc (May 5, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*djpark said:*
If you are looking for that much brightness, this LDO burst may not be the best way for you.


[/ QUOTE ]
cgpeanut, with this new information in hand please count me out. I was too fast on the trigger in the first place and didn't really thought it through. sorry.


----------



## Anglepoise (May 5, 2005)

cgpeanut
Quick question.
I have re read the posts above and I can not find info on if a Lux III star is included or not.
I am on the list for one board for a QIII and would like to receive it bare so I can select my own bin # and measure current to the emmiter etc before soldering up the two leads.
Thank you.


----------



## cgpeanut (May 5, 2005)

@Anglepoise

Luxeon is NOT included so you can pick your own bin and solder yourself. I will color code the wires so you can distinguish between positive and negative. 

I don't have the aluminum ring that goes with the Q3 and I need it to solder the star emiiter anyway. I will test each board before it goes out. 

I will offer to install a TWOJ or TXOK at cost for the sammie.


----------



## cgpeanut (May 5, 2005)

OK, I'll be accepting paypal payments 

$40.00 + shipping for the Q3 board assembled without lux
$42.00 + shipping for sammie assembled without lux

I cannot do this for the Q3 because I need the aluminum ring to make the complete moduie

I'm offering to install a TWOJ or TXOK for the sammie at cost 


If interested my paypal addy is [email protected]


----------



## Sengoku (May 5, 2005)

just a few q's
1. Have you included the Burst mode and what current is it set to?
2. Will it work in a Fire~Fly2?
3. How much is shipping to england?

thanks


----------



## Anglepoise (May 5, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Sengoku1986 said:*
just a few q's
1. Have you included the Burst mode and what current is it set to?

thanks 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes....this is important. I think most of us here would want the burst mode to be NO LOWER THAN THE STOCK SETUP it comes with from the factory.
Confirmation on this would be appreciated and actual examples of current measurements to the LED ( I know this will vary with bin ) would be great.


----------



## goldserve (May 5, 2005)

I can not make scientific measurements but I can assure you with the POP v1, the high brightness with R123 is no less bright than stock with cr123.


----------



## cgpeanut (May 5, 2005)

Here's a Q3 runtime chart DJ made a while back.







1) The RED is unmodded Q3 with R123 and BLUE is unmodded Q3 with CR123. In any combination of Luxeon bin with TPS73201(450mA) is brighter than Q3 + CR123 and also more consistent brightness.

2) CYAN lines are p-fet burst (=DD). On low Vf Luxeon with fresh charged R123, it is much brighter than LDO, but not long, less than a minute or so.

3) The jumping up of the brightness indicates the LDO going out of constant current regulation. From this point, it just give everything. the LDO has suppressed down the current by eating up the voltage while on regulation. If regulation goes off early, we get more light. That means we are actually wasting some potential light output by burning it as heat in LDO.

Using a TPS73201 to get 450mA current, it requires 3.55V-3.7V plus 0.1V by LDO. So high Vf bin will go off regulation early and low Vf bin will go on regulation through out the time.

Here's the kicker!

For balanced runtime, regulation, output, a dual TPS73xxx is recomended for which the board was specifically made this requires two LDO chips AND provides protection to the lux. Basically, it uses the 2nd LDO to flash the lux into burst mode.

This is good, because it ensures that the current to the luxeon is controlled not going over certain limit and good for the luxeon's health. Another interesting thing is the brighter light output with higher Vf Luxeon such as SY0K brighter than TX1J. I don't know why maybe someone can explain.

To recap the point, higher Vf bin will give brighter light output as long as the Vf is still lower than nominal battery voltage.

Here's the other kicker!

For thise wanting the brightest "Burst Mode" but sacrificing the health of the lux consider a single LDO only version but higher Vf bin will have to be used for brighter light as long as it is still within the regulation voltage range. 

A p-fet will be used to drive the lux into burst mode letting it absorb as much current as it can. DJ placed a timer in it so it won;t hurt the lux too much.

This can be offered with minimal customization of the pcb board. Let me know so I can make the changes. Now that we determined who get the sammie versus Q3 let's tackle this, runtime vs brightness issue.


----------



## MY (May 5, 2005)

I would like 1 Q3 and 1 sammie.

Regards.


----------



## cgpeanut (May 5, 2005)

oops photbucket is down can someone post this graph? nevermind its up


----------



## vacuum3d (May 5, 2005)

cgpeanut,
If I understand your post correctly, both models would have a Burst Mode, but one has a higher burst than the other. Right? I'd like to have
1 x Sammie w/ 1 LDO (BRIGHT Burst)
1 x Sammie w/ 2 LDO (Normal Burst)

thx,
ernest


----------



## cgpeanut (May 5, 2005)

@vacuum3d, Correct, thanks for making more clearer.

@Sengoku1986, I realy don't know if it will fit the Fire~Fly2, Does the firefly uses a sammie? Also about shipping to UK I will ask about the global priority shipping and pass it along at cost $7.00 maybe?

@Anglepoise, Confirmed, "In any combination of Luxeon bin with TPS73201(450mA) is brighter than Q3 + CR123 and also more consistent brightness." that's using CR123 which is stock. Tough Crowd /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## NetMage (May 5, 2005)

Will this work with U**L or T**H? I would expect runtime to drop but brightness to go up?

I would want my Q3 to be with burst/2 LDO.
I'd like to add a sammie with burst/2 LDO without LED for a fancy LE.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif

BTW, can these be setup to work with 2xR123 as well as 1?


----------



## NetMage (May 5, 2005)

DJ,

What would be involved in developing a different UI?


----------



## Anglepoise (May 5, 2005)

Thanks cgpeanut.
Its going to take a while to get used to different terminology.
I have been used to running my Lux III's at 350, 750 and 1000ma.
I understand the brightness I can expect knowing how much current is actually going to the LED. I think you are going to get questions like this until we all understand how these new boards work. Thanks again for answering.


----------



## djpark (May 5, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*vacuum3d said:*
cgpeanut,
If I understand your post correctly, both models would have a Burst Mode, but one has a higher burst than the other. Right? I'd like to have
1 x Sammie w/ 1 LDO (BRIGHT Burst)
1 x Sammie w/ 2 LDO (Normal Burst)

thx,
ernest 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ernest,

cgpeanut may have confused you further. Let me explain again.

Q3 or sammie w/ 1 LDO:
target constant current @ high = 650mA
no burst mode

Q3 or sammie w/ 2 LDO:
target current @ high = 450mA
target constant burst current = 800mA

The actual current flow can vary depending on the led as much as +/- 50mA. Also as you notice from the run time chart, the initial 450mA current will sag down to 400mA within a few minutes then stay constant throughout the regulation time.

The target constant current regulation can only be achieved if the led Vf is lower than the battery voltage - 75mV (or 100mV depending on LDO). So with ---L bin, it is quite likely it is out of constant current regulation from the begining while ---J bin will be on regulation through out the discharge, likewise ---K bin will go out of regulation halfway.

Personally I prefer single LDO version with higher current than dual LDO version with burst mode.

The light meter reading and the run time data logging shows some amount of extra brightness with burst mode. If you take the beamshot with the exactly same manual camera setup and flip the photos, you will see certain degree of difference in the brightness between high and burst modes.

But if I am shown the light output one at a time, I never remember the difference by eye measurement.

My recommendation is to use single LDO without burst mode for those wanting to get a little brighter high mode, especially using the stock Luxeon with higher Vf. Those using low Vf Luxeon may want to go for the dual LDO version which will give longer consistent run time.

-- dj


----------



## cgpeanut (May 5, 2005)

@Everyone.

Here's what I'm proposing:

BRIGHT BURST:
The best option for the single LDO version is to use the TPS73601 chip along with a high Vf lux ike T**J or T**H .H Vf lux should produce a brighter burst output than J bin lux. 

NORMAL BURST:
A TPS73201 as the primary LDO + TPS73601 as the Burst LDO + lower Vf bin like K gives a good balance IMHO. This will have lower "high' mode and somewhat better 'burst' mode",

@NetMage, UX1L with with single LDO will not give you anything more than LDO. It will be out of regulation You need a boost to make it work and maximize that expensive, exotic bin I have two.

@Anglepoise, ! am but a padawan learner DJ and Doug_S are the JEDI masters /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## djpark (May 5, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*NetMage said:*
Will this work with U**L or T**H? I would expect runtime to drop but brightness to go up?

I would want my Q3 to be with bright burst/1 LDO.
I'd like to add a sammie with regular burst/2 LDO without LED for a fancy LE.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif

BTW, can these be setup to work with 2xR123 as well as 1? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have either bin Luxeons to test. But from experience with other bins such as S--K, S--L, T--K, T--J, I can imagine this:-

U--L will be out of constant current regulation from the beginning and the brightness will decline as time goes. Incidentally the LDO doesn't seem to eat the 100mV, provably it will actually give brighter output.

T--H will go on constant current regulation till the battery gives out most it has and the light output will be very consistent. But I am not expecting any brightness increase compared to T--J bin. However, with low Vf, the burst mode may give you a lot more than other Vf bin.

Don't try with 2 x R123. You may want to try 2 x CR123 (at your own risk).

-- dj


----------



## djpark (May 5, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*NetMage said:*
DJ,

What would be involved in developing a different UI? 

[/ QUOTE ]

By me for you? If so, you can PM me.

Or by anyone? Then you need little concern about your regular work, some general knowledge, reasonable s/w & h/w tools and lots of time and patience.

Oh, did I mention the motivation? Some may seek glory, some may seek financial gain. I get my personal satisfcation (and hopefully a bit of the first two /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif) as it is my quest to make my ultimate EDC controller.

There is provision in the pcb design for different type of UI to be developed in future. There is also provision in the pcb design to upgrade the firmware as well. So putting a new firmware to the board is possible if there is need for it.

-- dj


----------



## cgpeanut (May 5, 2005)

I tested the firware upgrade feature on board it works!


----------



## DSpeck (May 5, 2005)

cgpeanut, how much for a couple of the sammie boards only? I don't need them made up into modules, just the boards themselves.

Thanks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## vacuum3d (May 6, 2005)

dj,
thanks for the explanation. Either way, I know I'm gonna enjoy this converter.

thx,
ernest


----------



## Kiu (May 6, 2005)

Hi dj,

I'd like to take 1 x Sammie w/ 2 LDO (BRIGHT Burst) assembled without lux

Thanks~


----------



## PeterB (May 6, 2005)

Roberto,

I'm also interested in a couple (probably 3) of Sammie boards (will go into McLux heads, therefore no emitter board needed).

I would take the 1LDO 650mA version.

Thanks!


----------



## Sengoku (May 6, 2005)

Hey guys i came across this japanese website http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~ogura/rof/cv01d/ it is very similar to the POP but runs on a CR123 not rechargeables.

btw how much is shipping to england?


----------



## Neg2LED (May 6, 2005)

OK, this whatiwant:

One qIII Board, Dual LDO.

OK? Thanks Muchly,

neg


----------



## cgpeanut (May 6, 2005)

New updated list:

pop2_list


----------



## cgpeanut (May 6, 2005)

@Dspeck, sure I'll sent you the parts and the board, same price. 

--Roberto


----------



## ViReN (May 6, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*cgpeanut said:*
Here's a Q3 runtime chart DJ made a while back.







1) The RED is unmodded Q3 with R123 and BLUE is unmodded Q3 with CR123. In any combination of Luxeon bin with TPS73201(450mA) is brighter than Q3 + CR123 and also more consistent brightness.

2) CYAN lines are p-fet burst (=DD). On low Vf Luxeon with fresh charged R123, it is much brighter than LDO, but not long, less than a minute or so.

3) The jumping up of the brightness indicates the LDO going out of constant current regulation. From this point, it just give everything. the LDO has suppressed down the current by eating up the voltage while on regulation. If regulation goes off early, we get more light. That means we are actually wasting some potential light output by burning it as heat in LDO.

Using a TPS73201 to get 450mA current, it requires 3.55V-3.7V plus 0.1V by LDO. So high Vf bin will go off regulation early and low Vf bin will go on regulation through out the time.

Here's the kicker!

For balanced runtime, regulation, output, a dual TPS73xxx is recomended for which the board was specifically made this requires two LDO chips AND provides protection to the lux. Basically, it uses the 2nd LDO to flash the lux into burst mode.

This is good, because it ensures that the current to the luxeon is controlled not going over certain limit and good for the luxeon's health. Another interesting thing is the brighter light output with higher Vf Luxeon such as SY0K brighter than TX1J. I don't know why maybe someone can explain.

To recap the point, higher Vf bin will give brighter light output as long as the Vf is still lower than nominal battery voltage.

Here's the other kicker!

For thise wanting the brightest "Burst Mode" but sacrificing the health of the lux consider a single LDO only version but higher Vf bin will have to be used for brighter light as long as it is still within the regulation voltage range. 

A p-fet will be used to drive the lux into burst mode letting it absorb as much current as it can. DJ placed a timer in it so it won;t hurt the lux too much.

This can be offered with minimal customization of the pcb board. Let me know so I can make the changes. Now that we determined who get the sammie versus Q3 let's tackle this, runtime vs brightness issue. 

[/ QUOTE ]

If its all about brightness... More Light Output and Regulation... why use an LDO ? ... I am not kidding nor trashing this thing.. but i need to know following

If R123 with UnModded gives a flat discharge curve & Brighter output (Red Curve)... why should one have a LDO ? .. what are disadvantages.... 

Since Protected R123's are available... they will as it is limit the high discharge currents and will also cutoff by themselves... so whats the benifit using a LDO .... 

from what ever (half knowledge) i have ... the LDO will regulate the current ... and rest of the energy will be lost in heat .... 

why not use just the POP2 and save on components ? ... let it be on a DD Controled by POP2...

is there something that i am missing ? ... care to upgrade my knowledge please.. i know i am lacking in somewhere...


----------



## cgpeanut (May 6, 2005)

@ViReN, I know you meant well and DJ may have a totally different opinion, I'm sure /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Use a UX1L DD controlled by POP2 alone, should be an interesting experiment, Gut feeling it will work, I bought two and will try when things settle dowm here at work, home, cpf.

EDIT: Now that should be really bright /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif protected cells? I don't have any, the unprotected cells I got from slavin4u and the homebrew charger I made works just fine.


----------



## NetMage (May 6, 2005)

cgpeanut:

Lost my post warning I updated my original - can you add a sammie w/2 LDO w/out LED, please. Already sent paypal.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif $5 for shipping


----------



## djpark (May 6, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*ViReN said:*
If its all about brightness... More Light Output and Regulation... why use an LDO ? ... I am not kidding nor trashing this thing.. but i need to know following

If R123 with UnModded gives a flat discharge curve & Brighter output (Red Curve)... why should one have a LDO ? .. what are disadvantages....

Since Protected R123's are available... they will as it is limit the high discharge currents and will also cutoff by themselves... so whats the benifit using a LDO ....

from what ever (half knowledge) i have ... the LDO will regulate the current ... and rest of the energy will be lost in heat ....

why not use just the POP2 and save on components ? ... let it be on a DD Controled by POP2...

is there something that i am missing ? ... care to upgrade my knowledge please.. i know i am lacking in somewhere... 

[/ QUOTE ]

ViReN,

Before I mention a thing, I need to mention that the run time of the unmodded Q3 in the chart is not compared in fair manner. The run time logging for unmodded Q3 + R123 was done very long ago when the battery was still early stage of its life while most other loggings were done lately when the batteries gone through many rounds of 'abuse' with over discharge. With the same battery condition, the unmodded Q3 on R123 does not last as much as 30 minutes.

Coming back to your questions, you are right about the brightness, unmodded Q3 pumps out brighter light output on R123, but much shorter time. Whereas LDO regulated Q3 brings almost consistent light output for much longer time which is still bright.

To some people, it is 'all about brightness' while to some people it is 'all about practicality'. Some are happy with a light which is too hot to hold and last only for 10-15 minutes, some want to carry around a light which gives reasonably bright light lasting for at least 1 hour.

To me, it is the 'balance' in-between, but I would not compromise the practicality for pure brightness. So depending on what you are looking for, the LDO may serve you well, or it can be a waste.

In the technical side, POP is designed to provide general purpose brightness/feature control to anything which can be turned on and off using PWM. That includes LDO, DD using FET, and even existing boost or buck circuit as well.

The LDO gives the simplest means of controlling the constant current which will keep the Luxeon safe from over driving, especially at the initial minutes with fresh battery. The reduced current results in longer run time, not all are wasted.

When it is direct driven using FET without any form of regulation, lots of energy is spent during the early stage of run time and the overall run time for the similar amount of light output is shorter. The high current at the initial few minutes is the main concern to me.

Monitoring and controlling the current in DD requires measuring the voltage across the current sense resistor and this requires an external absolute voltage reference if the micro processor does not have and increase the parts count as well as space requirement. Just setting a fixed PWM duty cycle to get average current flow using DD requires careful calibration and it too will also run away when the battery voltage drop unless it is compensated and this again requires absolute voltage reference. Of course it can be done with comparing the preassigned discharge profile within the program, but it requires really a lot of logging and sampling to achieve this data.

On the other hand, there is still a bit of space between 'the' sandwich board and the emitter board and it is possible to bring them closer while putting a POP + P-FET board below to make a 3 layer sandwich (double cheese burger, yummmy) and let POP to switch on/off sandwich circuit.

The pictur below will give you the idea of the thickeness.






I tried to asnwer you and I hope I did.

-- dj


----------



## vacuum3d (May 7, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif

thx,
ernest


----------



## dbrad (May 7, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif
Thanks!


----------



## cgpeanut (May 7, 2005)

I'll be updating the list soon when I get back from work and will indicate who has paid. 

Also managed to finished 2 complete Q3's with dual LDO late last night, one [email protected] the other a [email protected] I liked the TWOH better mainly because of the tint, wonder who would last longer, I can't tell which is brighter maybe the camera will tell when I post pics later tonight.


----------



## Anglepoise (May 7, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif


----------



## Wong (May 7, 2005)

Dear cgpeanut ,

I currently back to Malaysia holiday till next Friday and I cannot send payment via Paypal so I hope you understand and I will send Paypal once I return to Singapore.

Please let me know total shipping to Singapore for 1 

Q3 w/ 2 LDO:
target current @ high = 450mA
target constant burst current = 800mA

Thanks and regards
Wong


----------



## Kiu (May 8, 2005)

Dj,

I am sorry that I'll pass it.
I have missed the track and just read it requires a Li-ion to run. However, I will wait if there is any boost circuit using 123A in the furture. Thankyou.

regards,
Kiu


----------



## xpitxbullx (May 8, 2005)

Im sorry, I'll have to decrease my order from 3 Q-III boards to 2. I had a friend back out. Where and how much do I paypal for this?

Jeff


----------



## Neg2LED (May 9, 2005)

sorry, i have to back out. my dad just won't let me get it - he says that $40US is just too much to pay for an upgrade for a $18US light.

neg


----------



## cgpeanut (May 9, 2005)

Here's the new list;

POP2 List & who Paid 

Very Important Fact:

The max output current is determined by the Vf of the Lux . 

800mA output draw cannot be achieved using a TXOK lux for example even if you have the dual LDO circuit version. TXOH, TWOJ have the same current draw AND TXOH will last longer than TWOJ.

Here's a pic of a finished Nuwai Q3 board. 

dual LDO (2D) Q3 board

Finsihed Q3 2D's left:TXOH with 20mm ims reflector and right: UX1J with beamshots in survival mode.
q3
TXOH vs UX1J

--Roberto


----------



## diggdug13 (May 9, 2005)

Oh yea, that's what I'm talking about I can't wait for these to get here!!!!

thanks again for the work you've put into this roiberto

doug


----------



## goldserve (May 9, 2005)

CG,

I'm not on the list but i've paid =D


----------



## cgpeanut (May 9, 2005)

@diggdug13, thanks working on yours next /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
@goldserve, You Paid Really? Just Kidding, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif Updated the list.


----------



## cgpeanut (May 9, 2005)

Here's some pictures of the sammie POP2 

sammie POP2-1  

sammie POP2-2 

sammie POP2-3

MicroMag 

PhotonFanatic's CNC-123 with POP2 (Officially am I the first one?)


----------



## Jefff (May 9, 2005)

man I haven't forgotten about ya and still want to get in on this.. but it wil be about another week before I can pay ,, if this is a problem I want to say sorry and if you can or have to sell it to someone else go for it .. just don't want to put you in any type of binde .. thanks Jeff


----------



## nekomane (May 9, 2005)

cgpeanut,
Please inform me the international shipping fee and I will pay ASAP.


----------



## wasBlinded (May 9, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif for 1 LDO Q3 board.


----------



## xpitxbullx (May 10, 2005)

I must be blind. What is your paypal addy, cgpeanut?

Jeff


----------



## vacuum3d (May 10, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*cgpeanut said:*
Here's the new list;

POP2 List & who Paid 



[/ QUOTE ]

Roberto, I only see one board next to my name. I PP for 2 sammies. 1 x 1LDO and 1 x 2LDO.

thx,
ernest


----------



## xpitxbullx (May 10, 2005)

Found it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif

Jeff


----------



## ViReN (May 10, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*djpark said:*
ViReN,

Before I mention a thing, I need to mention that the run time of the unmodded Q3 in the chart is not compared in fair manner. The run time logging for unmodded Q3 + R123 was done very long ago when the battery was still early stage of its life while most other loggings were done lately when the batteries gone through many rounds of 'abuse' with over discharge. With the same battery condition, the unmodded Q3 on R123 does not last as much as 30 minutes.

Coming back to your questions, you are right about the brightness, unmodded Q3 pumps out brighter light output on R123, but much shorter time. Whereas LDO regulated Q3 brings almost consistent light output for much longer time which is still bright.

To some people, it is 'all about brightness' while to some people it is 'all about practicality'. Some are happy with a light which is too hot to hold and last only for 10-15 minutes, some want to carry around a light which gives reasonably bright light lasting for at least 1 hour.

To me, it is the 'balance' in-between, but I would not compromise the practicality for pure brightness. So depending on what you are looking for, the LDO may serve you well, or it can be a waste.

In the technical side, POP is designed to provide general purpose brightness/feature control to anything which can be turned on and off using PWM. That includes LDO, DD using FET, and even existing boost or buck circuit as well.

The LDO gives the simplest means of controlling the constant current which will keep the Luxeon safe from over driving, especially at the initial minutes with fresh battery. The reduced current results in longer run time, not all are wasted.

When it is direct driven using FET without any form of regulation, lots of energy is spent during the early stage of run time and the overall run time for the similar amount of light output is shorter. The high current at the initial few minutes is the main concern to me.

Monitoring and controlling the current in DD requires measuring the voltage across the current sense resistor and this requires an external absolute voltage reference if the micro processor does not have and increase the parts count as well as space requirement. Just setting a fixed PWM duty cycle to get average current flow using DD requires careful calibration and it too will also run away when the battery voltage drop unless it is compensated and this again requires absolute voltage reference. Of course it can be done with comparing the preassigned discharge profile within the program, but it requires really a lot of logging and sampling to achieve this data.

On the other hand, there is still a bit of space between 'the' sandwich board and the emitter board and it is possible to bring them closer while putting a POP + P-FET board below to make a 3 layer sandwich (double cheese burger, yummmy) and let POP to switch on/off sandwich circuit.

The pictur below will give you the idea of the thickeness.







I tried to asnwer you and I hope I did.

-- dj 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks DJ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif .. things are clear now


----------



## cgpeanut (May 10, 2005)

Updated the list. 

pop2_list_paid


----------



## xpitxbullx (May 10, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif for shipping /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jeff


----------



## Sengoku (May 12, 2005)

Hi just a quick question before i paypal you, does the sandwich POP work in a FireFly2? thanks.


----------



## Wong (May 12, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif


----------



## cgpeanut (May 12, 2005)

Latest Update!

List also Updated:

POP2 LIST SHIPPED 



All pcb's shipped /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif except for 1 strangler, thanks Wong I will complete your light tonight.

I shipped them all via priority mail or global mail with delivery confirmation. 

@diggdug13, I shipped yours with insurance added mo extra charge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

@Sengoku1986, I don't have a firefly, but here's a picture of the POP2 sammie, Q3 in comparision with a downboy pcb.



pop2 sammie vs downboy


----------



## diggdug13 (May 12, 2005)

Thank you very much, now I'll be sitting at the post office for the next couple of weeks in anticipation.

Thanks again
doug


----------



## Sengoku (May 12, 2005)

Im sorry, i will have to pass, sorry for any troubles caused.


----------



## goldserve (May 12, 2005)

Great!!!


----------



## djpark (May 13, 2005)

I went outstation trip for a job and stayed in a hotel. With the true flashaholic spirit, I had to turn off all the lights in the hotel room and lit my "First-A" with POP2 in survival mode for the night. Then I thought I'd share the picture with you.

The left is "First-A" low mode in candle position as seen by the eyes at first, the right is the same light to the dark room trained eyes.







It went through the whole night and it still gave bright high mode next morning.

-- dj


----------



## cgpeanut (May 14, 2005)

Nice one DJ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

As for me I've been eyeing the mini triplex e-light for weeks simply because of the stainless steel body, it felt solid

So. I added a brinkman lx head, 27mm IMS reflector, UCL lens, 17500 li-on batts and of course the POP2, with TWOJ:

Here it is. 































Survival Mode:






High Mode Ceiling shot /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## xpitxbullx (May 14, 2005)

Package arrived! Thanks guys!

Jeff


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## dbrad (May 15, 2005)

Just recieived my pop2 sandwich yesterday, and I am thrilled with it. 
DJ, Roberto, thank you very much for making this happen. This makes my firefly even more of the perfect EDC for me. and I can easily switch it with several other sammies in other lights for the ultimate flexibility in various applications. I will be ordering another and a QIII board in the near future.

I've read through the various threads though, and I'm still not understanding the directions. How is the alternate level selected in both UIs? Is it simply the highest non-burst level in UI2?

When is burst mode available? Isn't it the dual LDO version that had it? Or am I mixed up? because I think I had ordered the 2 LDO and I don't see any difference between 2nd on and 3rd on in UI2. Or is this absence of difference due to the vF of the lux used?

Is the term low mode being used for last used in the level-setting mode of either UI? If not, what accesses low mode?

Is there a place where instructions for use are posted? I found some for UI1 but not UI2 other than what's at the top of this thread. I suppose that with a little clarification even I can get it without further elaboration.

Thanks.


----------



## cgpeanut (May 15, 2005)

@dbrad ,

Yes you got the dual LDO for your sammie, TPS73201 for the fist and TPS73601 for the second.

As for me it takes a while to scroll thru the menu's using the kroll switch, but can be easily mastered with the Q3's stock switch , You don;t have to press the switch all the way off or on just enough to disrupt the contact.

- 1st ON: last used level (including strobe & sos)
- 2nd ON: alternative level
- 3rd ON: burst mode 
- 4th ON: low mode brightness selection mode (also can select strobe and sos)
|
- 10th ON: UI selection mode

UI selection

At 10th ON, OFF during first light ON to get UI0, 2nd light get UI1.


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## koala (May 16, 2005)

Package arrived, thanks pop2 creators!


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## goldserve (May 16, 2005)

I can't wait to get mine! I got the batteries all charged up!


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## Weylan (May 16, 2005)

Any one know if this circuit can be gotten into the Sam;s club Element? This would be a really nice addition to the light if there is room. The host is reasonably cheap, and I feel all the right parts are there already. The light just seems too bright for dark adjusted eyes. If we had a lower brightness settings, this would be awsome! And we could get exteneded run times!

So any ideas?


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## Thertel (May 16, 2005)

Are these still available is the 2 LDO Q3 version? If so where do I paypal, because I seem to have missed the address in the thread


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## DSpeck (May 16, 2005)

cgpeanut, please check your email.


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## cgpeanut (May 16, 2005)

@Weylan, Honestly dont know about the Sam;s club Element but here's a picture of the board compared to a downboy. POP2 Q3 and sammie compared to downboy 

@Thertel, pm sent

@DSpeck, email replied


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## Anglepoise (May 16, 2005)

With Pop in a QIII, do we now need to look out for a new momentary tail switch??


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## goldserve (May 16, 2005)

Anglepoise: No because the default switch is reverse momentary which will work just fine with the POP.


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## koala (May 17, 2005)

I built the POP2 Q3 version.

I can wade through the modes, change 1st on brightness. How do I change the 2nd ON Alternate Level brightness?

What does the 3rd ON Burst mode do? It seems to me same brightness level as the 2nd ON Alternate Level.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
Vince.


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## cgpeanut (May 17, 2005)

@koala, 

1) UI0 operation 

- 1st ON: last used level
- 2nd ON: alternative (next) level
- 3rd ON: alternate again (=1st)
- 4th ON: alternate again (=2nd)
- 5th ON: burst mode
- 6th ON: survival mode
- 7th ON: strobe mode
- 8th ON: sos mode
- 9th ON: low mode brightness level selection
- 10th ON: UI selection mode

2) UI1 (new simple UI) operation

- 1st ON: last used level (including strobe & sos)
- 2nd ON: alternative level
- 3rd ON: burst mode
- 4th ON: low mode brightness selection mode (also can select strobe and sos)
.
.
.
- 10th ON: UI selection mode

3) At 10th ON, OFF during first light ON to get UI0, 2nd light get UI1.


----------



## goldserve (May 18, 2005)

For some reason it does not want to remember the last level used if it was in HIGH mode. Also, how does one select strobe with the new UI?


----------



## Wong (May 18, 2005)

Received my POP2-Q3 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

:thanks :


----------



## cgpeanut (May 18, 2005)

@goldserve just curious do you have the Nuwai QI/QIII Dual Brightness Switch installed in the Q3 with POP2?


----------



## goldserve (May 18, 2005)

CG: Of course not =D If the capacitor was shorted out, would that explain why it's not saving the last used mode? Also, how do you get strobe and sos mode again?


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## cgpeanut (May 18, 2005)

goldserve, just eliminating the obvious /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif the cap is needed for the uPIC to function properly so if you're getting to the menu's I'd say it's working., 

The default starting level is always in low mode this gives better control knowing what mode your's in. 

about the strobe and sos, 

- 7th ON: strobe mode
- 8th ON: sos mode


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## goldserve (May 18, 2005)

I thought you could start up in high mode or low mode like UI1. I guess not. I'll give it another whirl tonight. I just finished soldering this morning and was running late for work =}


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## goldserve (May 18, 2005)

CG, that 7th on and 8th on for strobe is for UI1 no? I can't get UI2 to go into strobe and SOS


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## goldserve (May 18, 2005)

I finally know how to switch to strobe and sos mode in UI2 but have difficulty getting into UI1 mode..or switch UI modes for that matter...keep on trying!

Edit: I know how to get into UI1 mode now. What i don't really like in UI2 mode is that setting the brightness level, it's so easy to go into that mode and when y ou don't exit in time, you set the light to be very dim. There needs to be a longer delay before brightness adjustment should be in effect.


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## koala (May 18, 2005)

So you can't set the brightness level of 2nd ON?


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## goldserve (May 18, 2005)

koala, no, that's high brightness.


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## koala (May 19, 2005)

I don't get it, why not say high brightness but describe as
"2nd ON: alternative (next) level".

How does the 'high brightness' compare to "5th ON: burst mode"? Any difference?


----------



## wasBlinded (May 19, 2005)

Got my POP2 and installed it in a Q3. Very nice! The extremely efficient and selectable low levels bring new life to the Q3. I would buy more, but $40 is a bit steep. How about kit form for $20?


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## Anglepoise (May 19, 2005)

Just received my POP. Great packaging. Thanks.
Will get it soldered up this weekend.


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## koala (May 19, 2005)

I got the POP2 Q3 in unassembled form(kit) for the same price. The $$ is not just the cost of parts but it's the amount of time and skill to write the software. However I'll have to agree that the price is unjustified if it comes to mass production.


----------



## NetMage (May 20, 2005)

I agree it is a little pricey, but regular sammies are more and don't do as much in some ways.

cgpeanut,

If I get a sammie with lux, how much is total? Is T**H available or was that your private stash? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif If not, TWOJ would be what I want.


----------



## djpark (May 20, 2005)

Personally I hope that the price were cheaper and it could have been possible, too.

For this small run (less than 45 were made), cgpeanut put up all costs including some heavy bucks on the pcb layout design by a professional company (not me or him) and depanelizing done by the shop by machine and the bare pcb cost per piece was already higher than normal mass production. Even the extra emitter board in the sandwich costs the same as regulator board.

The most cost consuming process I find is the time spent flashing the PIC, soldering the parts under the magnifying light and testing board by board, beside the cost of the parts and the logistics. They can't be calculated by the material used alone.

I know he invested good money on the new soldering station and bought lots of parts. I expect cgpeanut had some good reasons to force himself to put such price.

I believe and hope that future run (if there is) could be at much lower price.

-- dj


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## djpark (May 20, 2005)

I've been away doing some immigration related tasks and couldn't find time to reply to some of the UI issues.

I may be repeating what was previously said, but I will try to get in to detail again here.

There are 2 UIs in the POP2 -- UI1: the tradional UI and UI2: new simpler UI. The UI2 is set as default when the firmware is flashed, but either one can be selected any time as explained below.

* what it means -- 1st ON *

POP decides which action to be taken by counting how many times the light has been turned on and off within 700 msec (0.7 second) continuously. If the light has been left on for more than 700 msec, the count is reset to 0 and the next turn on will be counted as "1st ON" in the explanation below.

* About the brightness level *

Also there are 2 versions of brightness selection -- low & high using single LDO, low, high & burst using dual LDO.

"high" brightness is full current flow allowed by the 1st LDO (or sole LDO of single LDO version).

"low" brightness is user selectable brightness between 5% and 95% of the "high" brightness in 200 steps using PWM.

"burst" brightness is the fill current allowed by the 2nd LDO added to "high" current allowed by 1st LDO in dual LDO version.

Unlike a boost circuit, the burst mode will not pump extra voltage to force extra current, instead it just gives as much as the Luxeon wants to take within the current limit set by the LDOs. So depending on the combination of the Luxeon, LDOs and the voltage, the burst mode may not bring much visible changes in the brightness to the naked eyes even though there are some differences in current measurement and the lux measurement. If you compare the beamshot side by side, you may not notice much, but if you flip between two, you can see the different sizes of the hotspot and spill.

"survival" mode is merely the lowest brightness of "low" level and it is only available in UI1.

In UI1, the strobe and sos modes are selected individually. In UI2, both strobe and sos are treated as if one of the "low" brightness. So "low" brightness level can trigger the strobe or sos mode in UI2.

POP/POP2 remembers which brightness level was used last time and it starts with the same level next time the light is turned on. It is refered to as "last level used". It also remembers the brightness level of the "low" mode.

If the 1st ON was high mode, the 2nd ON will brihg the low mode. This is reffered to as "alternate" level below.

* Traditional UI1 operation *

The 'burst mode' applies to the dual LDO version only. In some cases, it may not be easy to notice the difference between 'high' level and 'burst' level.

- 1st ON: last used level
- 2nd ON: alternate level
- 3rd ON: alternate again (=1st)
- 4th ON: alternate again (=2nd)
- 5th ON: burst mode (dual LDO only)
- 6th ON: survival mode
- 7th ON: strobe mode
- 8th ON: sos mode
- 9th ON: low mode brightness level selection
- 10th ON: UI selection mode

It is easy to forget the last mode used, so it is repeated twice till 4th ON. Though quite a few turn on/off cycles are needed, the UI provides consistent mode selection.

* low mode brightness selection in UI1 *

When the light is turned on and off within 700 msec 9 times (or 8 times in single LDO version), it gives a short flick of light and wait for 700 msec.

If the light is turned off within 700 msec, it goes to the next action when turned ON again. Or else if it is left on for more than 700 msec, it goes in to the 'low' brightness selection mode.

It starts with the lowest brightness (5% of high mode) and stays for about 100msec. Then it start increasing the brightness continuously till it reach 95% of the high mode, then stays for another 200 msec.

Then it goes down to 5% again, then wait for 200 msec at 5%. Then it repeats the same cycle again.

If the light is turned off at any time, the PWM rate of the time of last moment will be remembered as 'low' brightness level. 0-5% and 95-100% are excluded on purpose.

* UI selection mode *

If the light is turned on 10th time, it gives a short flick of light and waits for 700 msec. If it is turned off within this time, the light goes to next action. Or if left ON, it goes in to the UI slection mode. It is left high so that we don't trigger it accidentally.

After initial 700 msec of delay, it turns on the light for 700 msec, off for 700 msec, then on for 700 msec, then off for 1700 msec. Then it cycles again.

If the light is turned off at 1st ON, UI1 is selected. If it is turned off at 2nd ON, UI2 is selected. If it is turned off when the light is off in between, the last used UI is not changed.

* Simpler UI2 operation *

This simple UI is designed to bring the most commonly used brightness level of 'high' and 'low' within 1 or 2 turning ON. Even different 'low' mode such as 'strobe' or 'sos' can be selected within 4 turning ON (or 5 with dual LDO version).

- 1st ON: last used level (including strobe & sos)
- 2nd ON: alternative level
- 3rd ON: burst mode (dual LDO only)
- 4th ON: low mode brightness selection mode (also can select strobe and sos)
.
.
.
- 10th ON: UI selection mode

If you overshoot low brightness selection mode, it will alternate between high and low mode till UI selection mode is reached without triggering burst or low selection mode. This is to provide extra option to select high or low if accidentally overshot the count. Alternatively, you can leave the light On for 700 msec till you see the short flick then turn off and on again to reset the count during any mode except low brightness and UI selection mode.

* low mode brightness selection in UI2 *

When the light is turned on and off within 700 msec 4 times (or 3 times in single LDO version), it gives a short flick of light and wait for 700 msec.

If the light is turned off within 700 msec, it goes to the next action when turned ON again. Or else if it is left on for more than 700 msec, it goes in to the 'low' brightness selection mode.

It starts with the lowest brightness (5% of high mode) and stays for about 100msec. Then it start increasing the brightness continuously till it reach 95% of the high mode, then stays for another 200 msec.

If the light is turned off at any time, the PWM rate of the time of last moment will be remembered as 'low' brightness level. 0-5% and 95-100% are excluded on purpose.

After this, there will 7 shots of strobe followed by 3 longer strobe which is actually 'S' character of sos mode.

If the light is turned off during part of the strobe, the next 'low' brightness mode will bring strobe. Likewise, if it is turned off during the sos, next low mode will bring the sos mode.

If the light is left on further, it starts with 5% PWM brightness and start a new cycle again.

* default brightness level *

When the POP is 1st turned on, it starts with the last brightness level used -- high or low, and low brightness PWM rate. Most people asked it to work this way.

But once you start carrying around and using it, your idea will very likely change.

I personally find using high mode most of the time, (lowest) survival mode at dark night, and strobe at times to attract the attention of somebody, no burst mode. I prefer the 1st on starts with low mode as default.

Another local cpfer KevTan wants it to start with high mode as 1st default, then low mode followed by burst mode. He is right since most of the time he uses the light for machine inspection during day time.

There is povision made in the firmware design to set the default mode to either high, low or last used level. But it has to be decided during the flashing the PIC.

What is your liking in this default mode to start at 1st ON?

If there are many different opinions, I may extend the UI selection to UI2-0 (last used level), UI2-1 (low level) & UI2-2 (high level) so that the user can select the default level during the UI selection.

* Possible new UI *

How about combining UI1 and UI2 such as below? Combining 2 UIs into 1 will give me a bit of space in the ROM for other options.

- 1st ON: default level (last used, low or high selectable)
- 2nd ON: alternate level (high from low or low from high)
- 3rd ON: burst mode (dual LDO only)
- 4th ON: low mode brightness selection mode
- 5th ON: strobe or sos selection mode
- 6th ON: strobe or sos mode if selected by 5th ON, else default level
|
- 10th ON: default level selection mode

-- dj


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## cgpeanut (May 20, 2005)

DJ as always thanks!

I'm planning on making 10 more complete modules with TWOJ's 

5 sammies and 5 Q3's 3 of the Q3 will have ViRen's custom heat sink look for them in CPF custom B/S/T

--Roberto


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## Anglepoise (May 21, 2005)

Well I have just finished my QIII mod and am about to sit down and learn the UI.
However I immediately noticed one thing. When ever the light is switched on, there is one 'flicker' of the light , one second after it fires up.
Is this normal or do I have a malfunction?


----------



## cgpeanut (May 21, 2005)

@Anglepoise,

I have 4 Q3's with TXOH and TWOJ luxeons I don't have the flicker you mentioned.

I'm guessing (without more info) the LDO has a hard time starting up. Do you know what the bin of your lux?

It can also be (again guessing) too much negative resistance clean your contacts as well.

I had some problems with the kroll switxh acting in reverse meaning, you have to hold the switch all the way down to get contact, I was able to fix it by removing the small gold spring and spraying "DeoxIT" Power Booster By CAIG laboratories in the kroll switch,


----------



## Anglepoise (May 21, 2005)

I think its the little flash at 700 ms every time the light changes settings?


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## goldserve (May 21, 2005)

Yes, I have noticed both my Q3s, POP1 and POP2 flickers a little after the setting has settled. I think it's totally and does not bother me.


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## Anglepoise (May 21, 2005)

What is the #2 Alternate level and how do I adjust this.
I must be honest and say that I find the instructions very hard to understand. Partly I am sure because I am over 30 <g>.
The 'flicker' I thought I had was just the tiny indicator 'flash' at 700 milisecs when 1st ON.


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## goldserve (May 21, 2005)

Alternate level is like if you were on low brightness, you go to high brightness or if you were on high, you go to low. Just the alternate levels...


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## Anglepoise (May 21, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*goldserve said:*
Alternate level is like if you were on low brightness, you go to high brightness or if you were on high, you go to low. Just the alternate levels... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Got it.
Now in UII, 1 is low, 2 is alternate ( high) and 3 should be burst but is actually exactly the same as 2. ( Dual LDO ) 
No change at all. So how do I lower light intensity in 2, so I have 3 levels??


----------



## cgpeanut (May 21, 2005)

Just look at it again with a UX1J Q3 and TXOH Q3, It did flicker one second after you pressed it on. The duration of the flicker was so quick I did not even noticed it, half a second maybe, but only once. Now, if it flickers more than that then I'm sure something is wrong. I warranty my work and will fix or replace if need be.

I found playing with the low mode brightness level selection is fun /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It's the 8th click in U1 and U2, when the light goes into low and slowly increaes intensity then flashes at the end that's U1 otherwise your in U2, Anyway, click on at the desired low level to set, Really neat I think.


----------



## NetMage (May 22, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Anglepoise said:*
Now in UII, 1 is low, 2 is alternate ( high) and 3 should be burst but is actually exactly the same as 2. ( Dual LDO ) 
No change at all. So how do I lower light intensity in 2, so I have 3 levels?? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe you can - brightness two is full power from LDO #1, burst mode is LDO #1 + LDO #2.

If you are not seeing a difference, it could be your Vf is not letting the LED pull more current from both LDO's. Do you know your LED bin?


----------



## djpark (May 22, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Anglepoise said:*
Well I have just finished my QIII mod and am about to sit down and learn the UI.
However I immediately noticed one thing. When ever the light is switched on, there is one 'flicker' of the light , one second after it fires up.
Is this normal or do I have a malfunction? 

[/ QUOTE ]

It is there as part of the design to tell you that the 700 msec has expired and the next turning on will be treated as "1st ON".

It is very short while of switching off the light (in a few msec), but it is visible due to the slow response of the LDO.

This single 'blink' is consistent throughout the usage.

-- dj


----------



## djpark (May 22, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*NetMage said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*Anglepoise said:*
Now in UII, 1 is low, 2 is alternate ( high) and 3 should be burst but is actually exactly the same as 2. ( Dual LDO ) 
No change at all. So how do I lower light intensity in 2, so I have 3 levels?? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe you can - brightness two is full power from LDO #1, burst mode is LDO #1 + LDO #2.

If you are not seeing a difference, it could be your Vf is not letting the LED pull more current from both LDO's. Do you know your LED bin? 

[/ QUOTE ]


Anglepoise,

NetMage has pointed out correctly.

Burst mode is just as much the led can grab from the battery and the current value is very subject to the Vf. Even though there is difference, your eyes may not really tell it clearly when the difference is not much.

The XY chart below shows measurement of Vf and the led current of a few Luxeons I have been using. Some of them are used for some time and the Vf has shift down. From here you can get idea of how much current a Luxeon can take from a li-ion battery using LDO or direct drive.







0.6-0.8A initially on load, 0.4-0.5A most of time. But you need to see how bright 0.4A on Lux3 can produce.

-- dj


----------



## Anglepoise (May 23, 2005)

Thanks for all the replies. I am using a 'TYOH' bin Lux III.
With this Lux , there is no difference in light output or measured current usage between #2 and #3, burst mode.
This is sad as I had hoped that with all the #s I would have been able to program my own light intensity for 1,2,and 3.
For me a third level of tight intensity is more important than SOS, and strobe.

However I commend you guys for allowing others to participate in the fun you have obviously had in developing all this.


I hope the future will allow the end user to somehow be involved with the UI. If this ever became a saleable product , the UI becomes the most important thing.


----------



## cgpeanut (May 23, 2005)

@Angelise said:

"I hope the future will allow the end user to somehow be involved with the UI. If this ever became a saleable product , the UI becomes the most important thing."

It's comming /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

EDIT: Testing Version 2.25 now, which will include ViRen's Heat Sink and TWOJ lux.













--Roberto


----------



## goldserve (May 23, 2005)

How's the new 2.5 UI like? How can i upgrade the existing one?


----------



## djpark (May 24, 2005)

The new UI is actually combination of UI1 & UI2 for easier and faster usage yet more consistent operation.

The major (actually minor) changes from the v2.22 to v2.25 are below.

1) It has 4 choices (UI1, UI2-0, UI2-1, UI2-2) instead of 2 (UI1, UI2) in UI selection. 

UI1 is the same old classic UI and the UI2 is based on the current POP2 UI2, but further modified to suite what I consider more useful. 

The 1st ON brightness level is fixed in UI1 as 'last used' level and the original UI2 followed the same. Now 1st ON in UI2 can be set to use either 'high' or 'low' in addition to the 'last used' level. 

When you turn on the light 10th time, it goes in UI selection mode. It will give you a short blink and wait for 700 msec. Then there will be 4 slow strobes cycle. 

If you turn off while any of the light is on, the UI is selected as below. If you turn off the light when there is no light, the UI remains unchanged. 

1st strobe: UI1 
2nd strobe: UI2-0: 1st ON = last used level 
3rd strobe: UI2-1: 1st ON = low level 
4th strobe: UI2-2: 1st ON = high level 

2) Unlike previous UI2 in the thread, strobe and sos are not treated as low level any more. 

The low level brightness selection cycles through the brightness only (up and down like Ui1) and the strobe and sos are moved behind the brightness selection. 

So this is how it works. 

1st ON = default level (last used, low or high) 
2nd ON = alternate level 
3rd ON = low level brightness selection 
4th ON = strobe mode 
5th ON = sos mode 
| 
10th ON: UI selection mode 

This is very much like the UI1, but with fixed default level and less count for action, I find it easier to use (at least for me). 

It is supposed to be UI2.5(?) or shall I call it UI3? If it has good response, I may just keep this UI alone in the light without having UI1. This will give me back some flash ROM space which I can use for some other features in future. 

There is provision in the pcb design to reflash the firmware without pulling the PIC out of the soldered board. But practically it involves you to send the board or sandwich to cgpeanut for him to reprogram the PIC.

You may want to sweet talk to him and offer him a huge fee besides the shipping to see if he is interested in doing so.

-- dj


----------



## goldserve (May 24, 2005)

Dj,

What PIC do you use? I may have access to the PICs and a programmer for sure. I wish to flash my own and replace it myself. Thanks.


----------



## cgpeanut (May 24, 2005)

@DJ,

May I suggest launching another thread specifically for the POP2 Version 2.25 this one is getting really, really long /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I made some POP2 Version 2.25 last night and posted it in CPF B/S/T 

here 

I'm selling them as complete units all that is needed are li-on batts.

@goldserve, I'd offer to re-program your Q3 for you if you pay for shipping both ways but if you rather do yourself, then be my guest /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You'll need a PIC programmer, I use the K150 from kitsrus.com, and the CCS compiler to generate the hex file. you'll have to buy these, 

DJ, did countless hours programming the POP2 UI, I doubt he'll give you the hex file just like that, Simplest solution is to send it to me I'll re-program for you. no worries /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

--Roberto


----------



## goldserve (May 24, 2005)

CG/DJ: What's the part number on the PIC that is being used?


----------



## cgpeanut (May 24, 2005)

It could be the PIC12F275, PIC12F629, PIC12F635 and PIC12F683 it depends on what I have on hand when I built your POP2 Q3.

Different pics requires the matching hex file compiled specifically to the pic being used.

I can't rememeber in your particular Q3 but you can see the exact part number in the board yourself, it's the 8 pin soic located at the center of the board.

--Roberto


----------



## gregw (May 28, 2005)

Can someone comment how easy/difficult it is to do multiple On/Offs when using this in a twisty body like the Firefly2? I was just reading that you need to do all the multiple On/Off within 700 msec, and think that this is basically impossible with something with a twist on switch rather than a kroll.

Yep, thinking of buying one for my FF2 here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## goldserve (May 28, 2005)

With my arc-ls modded with a POP UI Pre version 1, it sometimes does pose a challenge to turn on/off 7 -8 times to get to flashing and SOS mode if the threads are not lubricated with a conductive gel. With the new 2.25 UI, it only takes 4-5 turns to get all the modes so it shouldn't be too hard. Cheers.


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## djpark (May 28, 2005)

To get to the next action, each 'turning off' needs to be done within 700 msec from the 'turning on'. Time delay from 'off' to 'on' stage doesn't matter since the cpu is off and doesn't count.

Reverse clickie like Q3's momentary switch works cleanest in terms of triggering the next action and twisting is not bad. Kroll may have more contact problem.

-- dj


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## Wong (May 29, 2005)

Dear cgpeanut ,

May I know what setting POP2-Q3 on mine ? I cannot find the burst mode /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif and is even dimmer then my Jil 1.3w ( non upgrade model )

Thanks and regards
Wong


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## Anglepoise (May 29, 2005)

What is the procedure for those of us that have purchassed in the last couple of weeks a board designated 2.22.
Now you seem to be selling something totally new. 2.25 ????


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## goldserve (May 29, 2005)

CG, how much would it cost for me to send you back the board to get it upgraded? I presume the upgrade is free but I pay for shipping?


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## Wong (May 30, 2005)

Dear Roberto ,

My POP2-Q3 seriously dimm /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif the brightness just like my LionHeart on 2 lever ( refer to 5 force setting ) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I able to swcith to other function and adjust the low setting but I cannot find the burst mode /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif 

Do you have any idea what happen to my board ?

Look forward your kind reply /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks and regards
Wong


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## goldserve (May 30, 2005)

Wong,

If you have POP UI-2, the problem you are describing is the feature of the POP to set the brightness level of the LOW brightness setting. It is probably set on survival mode with minimal current running through the LED. If you refer a couple of posts ago made by djpark, you have to get into the brightness setting mode and wait. The light will go from dim all the way to bright (95% of brightest level). When you turn the led off, the brightness is remembered. Cheers.


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## dbrad (May 30, 2005)

gregw- 

I'm running this in a FireFly with both CR2 and 123 bodies and it is not only easy to use to change modes, but it makes for an incredible light. I tried it with a CNC-123 and I've had a chance to try the QIII version, and this is by far my favorite for ease of use as well as form factor. Both the Kroll and the QIII switches can inadvertantly make contact multiple times in one stroke of their respective 'momentary press' instances (reverse momentary in the case of the QIII), thereby confusing your location in the sequence. I suppose it takes some getting used to.

But with the twist action in the Firefly, this is hardly ever an issue. Isn't 700 ms 7/10ths of a second? Plenty of time for an able-bodied person with fingers. It's easy to do one-handed even using the CR2 body. Although my 2-stage switch worked flawlessly, I've retired it (along with my NG750 sammie) in favor of this superior sophistication and increase in options.


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## goldserve (May 30, 2005)

dbrad,

I have to agree this is superior to my QIII dual brightness mods. I love the POP UI as I have two QIIIs and an ARC-LS using this. It is a little pricey so my second choice would be a dual switch for the QIII. That is cheap and functional as well. Cheers!


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## Bimmerboy (May 30, 2005)

I must say, for the sammie version, it's not pricey at all!


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## Bimmerboy (May 30, 2005)

EDIT: Geez, my first double post. Had to happen sometime.


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## gregw (May 30, 2005)

Thanks for the confirmation dbrad. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Lux Luthor (May 30, 2005)

Has anyone tried this in a micra? The module will fit a sandwich sized board, although of course you don't need the emitter board.


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## Wong (May 31, 2005)

Dear goldserve , /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif

Problem solved /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

My apologize /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif I do not know POP2-Q3 require R123 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif

Best regards
Wong


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## Wong (May 31, 2005)

Has anyone discover the POP2-Q3 have the fast short strobe on 11th:ON ( UI0 ) ??

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 12, 2005)

I just recieved my 2nd set of POP2 sammies, however they're behaving as documented here. I'm supposed to have the lastest firmware loaded in these, but they're not acting as my previous ones from only a few weeks ago. It seems that versions continue to change repidly, so can someone tell me what's the current list of version features/selections?


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## cgpeanut (Jul 12, 2005)

Nascar,

If you have sos then I can guarantee you have V2.25 same version as the rest of your POP2's. I know I tested it and programmed myself, 

I do remember I changed the stock kroll spring with a minimag spring when I was testing your sammie on a MM, to me, it gives the clicking a faster response "less throw?" like a "short shifter" Testing this new discovery I believe I switch you to the 2rd UI oops, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif My bad 

Go to the 10th click, once there in under .7 sec latch on to the first UI, Hopefully this helps.

Anyway, There's only 3 versions out there:

POP2 V2.22 (Original Version)
POP2 V2.25 (with sos and U1 and U3)
POP2G V2.27 (Groovy Version)


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 12, 2005)

Thanks. I'm still playing. I'll figure it out, I'm sure. These things are really amazing.


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## Bimmerboy (Aug 15, 2005)

DJ or CG,

In the initial post for this thread back in the beginning of May, the beamshots for the POP2 in a Minimag show a reasonably focused hotspot... or at least there's no donut hole.

With my POP2 in a cut down MM using a 14500, and reflector to accept a MJLED (then modified a little further by shaving the overall height from the bottom up), at best I can only get enough focus to throw some light forward with a big 'ol dark hole in the middle. Seems I can't get the LED into the reflector enough to get rid of it. Things "bottom out" before that point, so I can't get things focused.

How were you guys able to achieve the lack of donut hole? Or anyone else for that matter?


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## djpark (Aug 16, 2005)

I guess you are referring to this beamshot.







The miniMag belongs to Nexro and he has already shaved the reflector (I believe he widened the opening, but you can check with AuroraLite's guide to confirm). Besides, I used an LD instead of HD Luxeon.

When you get a black hole in the middle, it is indication that the reflector is too far away from the led. You may want to widen it and allow the led go in deeper in to the reflector.

-- dj


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## Bimmerboy (Aug 17, 2005)

Thanks, DJ. Upon closer inspection, looks like it'll be neccessary to both widen the hole to 1/4", and shave some more off the bottom. Just enough to get rid of the hole and slightly tighten the focus.

I've found this light to be very useful for close to almost medium range outside at night, and close to definitely medium range indoors. It also gives a decently wide, useable sidespill which is great (especially for avoiding the doggie land mines in the back yard). Once the reflector's more in line, it'll be even nicer to use.

Just for the record, I've been preferring UI2 overall (I'm running 2.25). In essence, it does everything UI1 does in less clicks.

Nice little sammie!


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## legtu (May 16, 2006)

Bump.

Lot's of useful and interesting info...


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