# H51, H52?, w/ Eneloop in the cold



## markr6 (Jan 2, 2013)

Just wanted to mention a few random points I experienced today.

1. I somehow feel inappropriate to cut and paste an email/quote from a manufacturer, even though others do it and I don't believe it's against the rules. So let me just make the same point by saying I* will not be holding out for the H52 *(or whatever it would be called). So I think it's time for me to sell the H51 and get an H51w since it took me a year to realize the cool white is too cool for me.

2. I was out on my nightly run tonight and it was the first time it was cold - about 17°F/-8°C. Only about 5 minutes into the run I noticed the freshly charged Eneloop (2000mAh, 2nd gen.) was not able to provide the max H1 setting. It was the exact same as the highest H2 setting I have programed. It took about 10 minutes inside to warm up and go back to normal. In the past I was always confident Eneloops were efficient well into my deep winter backpacking trips; now I'm not so sure. Still great batteries and no hard feelings here!

3. Per Zebralight, the H51w should be back in stock soon!


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## moozooh (Jan 2, 2013)

Use lithium primaries in the cold. No way around it.


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## markr6 (Jan 2, 2013)

moozooh said:


> Use lithium primaries in the cold. No way around it.



Yeah, I thought about that but then realized it would be way too expensive to burn thru an L91 every night or few. Even a pack of 50 runs over $80 so that wouldn't be an option. Plus I would just feel totally wasteful. The H2 setting is not that bad and actually I use that much of the time anyway. I'm planning on getting an H600/w soon which should help, even if the 18650 takes a substantial hit on performance in the cold it will still be brighter than the H51.


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## LED_Thrift (Jan 3, 2013)

I was cold weather backpacking Thanksgiving weekend in the Adirondaks and the Eneloops worked fine. I wasn't super cold, probably 20F at the coldest. I was amazed that the denatured alcohol in my stove would NOT light when a spark from a ferro-cerrra rod went into it! I also had two 18650 powered lights and noticed that they would not hold high for as long as normal. Overall my experience is that Eneloops are very good in the cold. They don't have the same power as when warm, but that's true of almost any battery.


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## MojaveMoon07 (Jan 3, 2013)

Maybe there's an additional option.

There is a new generation of Eneloop that are becoming more easily available. There is a retailer on amazon.com selling them; search for "_eneloop 3rd generation_"

Here is a video review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_fJOaNWv_c

One of the amazon customers said that the previous gen could work down to 14F/-10C while this new 3rd gen can work down to -4F/-20C

I wonder if these will eventually become available at Costco


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## MojaveMoon07 (Jan 3, 2013)

markr6 said:


> 1. I somehow feel inappropriate to cut and paste an email/quote from a manufacturer, even though others do it and I don't believe it's against the rules. So let me just make the same point by saying I* will not be holding out for the H52 *(or whatever it would be called). So I think it's time for me to sell the H51 and get an H51w since it took me a year to realize the cool white is too cool for me.!



Did ZL say something that suggests that the headlamp version of the 52-series will be unreliable, impractical, or a poor performer ?


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## moozooh (Jan 3, 2013)

Eneloops _will_ work in the cold, but it shouldn't come as a surprise if you only see 20–30% of their capacity depending on the temperature. Lithiums should remain near their maximum up to –20C or so, and only then start ramping down.

Are you using that H51 at the 100 lm setting? Try using it at 30 lm and see if it's bright enough for some of your tasks. Either way you shouldn't burn through an L91 in a night unless you walk at night and sleep during the day; I'd rather expect one in three nights or so. Should be acceptable for wintertime.


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## markr6 (Jan 3, 2013)

moozooh said:


> Eneloops _will_ work in the cold, but it shouldn't come as a surprise if you only see 20–30% of their capacity depending on the temperature. Lithiums should remain near their maximum up to –20C or so, and only then start ramping down.
> 
> Are you using that H51 at the 100 lm setting? Try using it at 30 lm and see if it's bright enough for some of your tasks. Either way you shouldn't burn through an L91 in a night unless you walk at night and sleep during the day; I'd rather expect one in three nights or so. Should be acceptable for wintertime.



I guess the L91 is worth a try if I really need the H1 setting (200lm), which I used yesterday. I usually run at least the 140lm because I run on some back country roads and it's pitch black (I've recently realized an H600 would be much more appropriate and I'm close to buying one). Now that I think of it, I probably had the H1 running for 25 minutes, which is approaching half the expected run time. So considering that plus the cold, I can't be upset with their performance.


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## d1337 (Jan 4, 2013)

I think that the h600 is a great option. It will be a lot brighter if you need it to be or will run a lot longer that the H51 at 200lm. I have an H51 and a H600 and have been impressed with the battery life in the H600. I usually have it in a medium mode where as I was always running the H51 on h1 or h2.


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## jonathanluu2 (Jan 4, 2013)

d1337 said:


> I think that the h600 is a great option. It will be a lot brighter if you need it to be or will run a lot longer that the H51 at 200lm. I have an H51 and a H600 and have been impressed with the battery life in the H600. I usually have it in a medium mode where as I was always running the H51 on h1 or h2.



I agree with what was said above. I have an H-51Fw, (the floody version) and while it does have enough light for me to run around in the dark on the H2 setting... there is still something to be desired as far as the capacity of the batteries used in this version. I have been eyeing the H600 but they are rather clunky compared to the smaller H51/H502s. I have heard they bob up and down a bit more when running, but can be tolerated. I am currently trying to hold out on the release of a (hopefully more compact) H602w... but I dont think that will roll around anytime soon with the production of the H502s hogging production capacity....


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## jonathanluu2 (Jan 4, 2013)

markr6 said:


> Just wanted to mention a few random points I experienced today.
> 
> 1. I somehow feel inappropriate to cut and paste an email/quote from a manufacturer, even though others do it and I don't believe it's against the rules. So let me just make the same point by saying I* will not be holding out for the H52 *(or whatever it would be called). So I think it's time for me to sell the H51 and get an H51w since it took me a year to realize the cool white is too cool for me.
> 
> ...




1. Does this refer to some vague email about manufacturing facilities being overrun by orders and they are currently trying to restock things on the shelf? I have heard of similar email responses when people inquired of the release of future H602s....and yes I will chime in with others that having a more neutral beam makes a world of difference compared to the washed out cool look.

2. Cant speak from personal experience, as I have yet to lay down some dough for the Eneloops, but from what I can tell MojaveMoon is on the right track with looking at the new generation of Eneloops. I found the XX version on amazon at $5.75 per battery, including shipping. Not bad considering if you did opt for a H600 headlamp your cost for a battery would be nearly 3 times that (omitting the scenario where you have 18650's rolling around in your drawers).

Sanyo Rechargable XX 2500ma(ish) Batteries

3. Also... looks like all of the neutral white H51s are out of stock as well... I would sell you mine, but then I wouldnt be able to run around in the dark anymore!


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## jonathanluu2 (Jan 4, 2013)

markr6 said:


> Yeah, I thought about that but then realized it would be way too expensive to burn thru an L91 every night or few. Even a pack of 50 runs over $80 so that wouldn't be an option. Plus I would just feel totally wasteful. The H2 setting is not that bad and actually I use that much of the time anyway. I'm planning on getting an H600/w soon which should help, even if the 18650 takes a substantial hit on performance in the cold it will still be brighter than the H51.



...soryy, I appear to be camping on the subject... I really like zebralights! Should you decide to go with getting an H600, I will add my $0.02 and you can take it or leave it. I like having a floody headlamp, as beam direction is dictated by the orientation of my noggin. Its nice to be able to scan my entire field of vision without having to turn my head, tunnel-vision-like. It makes my movements more realistic to how I would move in daylight normally.

But perhaps you are interested more in what is directly in front of you/running very fast straight ahead and dont really care about what is on the peripherals, in which case, carry on.


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## markr6 (Jan 4, 2013)

jonathanluu2 said:


> 2. Cant speak from personal experience, as I have yet to lay down some dough for the Eneloops, but from what I can tell MojaveMoon is on the right track with looking at the new generation of Eneloops. I found the XX version on amazon at $5.75 per battery, including shipping. Not bad considering if you did opt for a H600 headlamp your cost for a battery would be nearly 3 times that (omitting the scenario where you have 18650's rolling around in your drawers).
> 
> Sanyo Rechargable XX 2500ma(ish) Batteries



I don't want to rely on the 3rd gen to handle the temps. Even if they do go down to -4° the performance is still going to be reduced somewhat and the output of the H51 simply isn't enough for me. I also have some Eneloop XX batteries that I use in my EA4, but I would be charging them every night after running, and that's not something I want to do.


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## moozooh (Jan 4, 2013)

How fast are you running and how long are your running sessions?


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## markr6 (Jan 4, 2013)

I usually do about 3-4 miles. I can be out there anywhere from 30min-60min depending on warm-ups/cool-downs and any walking.

Just to be clear, I'm not bashing the H51 at all. I love this light and have no intention of getting rid of it (well, maybe to swap for the w verson when available). It just makes more sense for me to get the H600w for output and a little more runtime. I'm sure I'll use it for backpacking as well.


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## jonathanluu2 (Jan 4, 2013)

Sounds like you're pretty firm on the H600. A fine decision, no less. The floody version does assist in illuminating the entire tent/campground in front of you without much of a hotspot. Helps immensely when working with things ~arms length. **frantically searches for posts about this, but comes up empty handed**

At any rate, as for the aforementioned bouncy headlamp, I found a post that pretty well sums up solutions.

Bouncy H600/H51/H501 solutions


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## jonathanluu2 (Jan 4, 2013)

Guess I should have read some of your other posts Markr6. Hope you enjoy your new light!


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## Lumosnox (Jan 12, 2013)

I have been planning on waiting for the H52, and upon seeing your post about not waiting for it, I finally registered for this forum so that I could ask, "why?" This will be my first higher-end flashlight, and I'd rather not wait for it if I should just get something else. Please enlighten me?


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## markr6 (Jan 13, 2013)

Lumosnox said:


> I have been planning on waiting for the H52, and upon seeing your post about not waiting for it, I finally registered for this forum so that I could ask, "why?" This will be my first higher-end flashlight, and I'd rather not wait for it if I should just get something else. Please enlighten me?



I asked Zebralight about an H52 and they said they have no plans to make one unfortunately. I still have my H51, but recently got the H600w which is amazing. I'll be using this 95% of the time from now on and keep the H51 as a backup or for when I won't be needing a light often. Actually, I'll be selling my H51 and buying an H51w when back in stock. But for backpacking, running, camping, etc this H600w will be getting a lot of use!


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## uk_caver (Jan 16, 2013)

If it's not a stupid suggestion, as far as cold running is concerned, if you're typically starting off from the warm and running at a single power level, presumably there'd be some rough level of insulation at which the Eneloop wouldn't get cold enough to lose functionality but where the ZL also wouldn't get too hot?


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## Lumosnox (Jan 24, 2013)

markr6 said:


> I asked Zebralight about an H52 and they said they have no plans to make one unfortunately.



That is interesting. When I emailed them a couple of weeks ago, they said it would be available in q3 or q4 of this year. I wonder which one of us got the correct info...


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## markr6 (Jan 24, 2013)

Lumosnox said:


> That is interesting. When I emailed them a couple of weeks ago, they said it would be available in q3 or q4 of this year. I wonder which one of us got the correct info...


I don't believe ANYONE anymore. But I would put money on your response. It just seems so unlikely that they wouldn't make an H52 soon. Add the voltage indicator, updated LED, possibly shorter. I'm patiently waiting for it!


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