# Any way to create a Useful Mag 623 or 85



## Beaver_2 (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm considering making a Mag 623 or 85. Not sure which one yet. But is there any way I can drop another bulb to make the flashlight actually have some useful runtime. 10 minutes just isn't enough ya know?


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## gswitter (Sep 13, 2009)

Use one of AW's multi-level, soft-start switches.


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## mitch79 (Sep 13, 2009)

Mag 4C, 3x18650, WA1185: 40min of bright light. Is that useful enough for you?


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 13, 2009)

Drop in a osram IRC 20w Bulb . Can be used with the same battery pack.Over 1 hour run time depending on battery


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## [email protected] (Sep 13, 2009)

A generic 12v 10w halogen with pins bent for the 623 and a Carley 809 for the 85.

Or just a backpack full of batteries.


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## KiwiMark (Sep 13, 2009)

How I do it:
I have a bunch of Maglites including a Mag623 & a Mag458 with very short run times. For a good bright torch that is useful I use a Mag 2D with 2 x Kaidomain 32600 cells and a ROP bulb - plenty of light and the ROP low gets around 2 hours of run time. Even the ROP high can run for around an hour.


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## Chodes (Sep 13, 2009)

For Mag85:
2D , 3 x AW IMR 26500 , JimmyM regulated driver.
About 40 minutes run time.
For longer run time use 3D and either 4 x IMR26500 or 3 x BatterSpace 26550 cells.
By using JimmyM driver , any of above 3 combinations could be used fro many other bulbs - ROP High or Low , WA1331, Philips 5761, etc

So , yes , it can be done. With availability of regulated drivers , it can be done very easily.


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## RichS (Sep 13, 2009)

I have a 3C Mag85 using 3x AW C Li-ions for about an hour of runtime on high. I'm using an AW 3 mode switch for lots of additional runtime when needed.


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## Illum (Sep 13, 2009)

brightness and runtime don't complement each other, without having a backpack looking like the "old painless" its very difficult to have the best of both worlds.

Mag623 is a concept light, not really something created for practicality. as for the mag85, if you need that intensity of light for longer than 20 minutes, consider buying yourself a dedicated spotlight that runs on a car battery or something bigger than those 6AH bricks in the hand held varieties


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## BSBG (Sep 13, 2009)

A regulated driver and lots of IMR 18650s will give you a long running 623. A Modamag Colossus will run 8 cells 4s2p for 15-20 minutes. 

An 1185 runs 30 minutes or so in 'standard' 9xAA format. I am using AlanB's regulated driver with 12xAA for 40ish minutes on high.


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## Chodes (Sep 13, 2009)

RichS said:


> I have a 3C Mag85 using 3x AW C Li-ions for about an hour of runtime on high. I'm using an AW 3 mode switch for lots of additional runtime when needed.



I used the same combo but in a 2.25D Mag. Great light.


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## fivemega (Sep 13, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> I'm considering making a Mag 623 or 85. Not sure which one yet. But is there any way I can drop another bulb to make the flashlight actually have some useful runtime. 10 minutes just isn't enough ya know?



*4S/4P protected 18500 will give you about 35 minutes run time with 623

You can use same set up with regulated 610 or 611 for well over 85 minutes.

Regulated 610 or 611 also will work with 16AA in bored out 4D with reasonable and practical run time.*


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## KiwiMark (Sep 13, 2009)

fivemega said:


> *4S/4P protected 18500 will give you about 35 minutes run time with 623*




But would it be practical to use a 623 for 35 minutes? I would think that there would be a bit too much heat building up. Even 5 minutes continuous running will heat up a Mag623 a LOT.


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## fivemega (Sep 13, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> But would it be practical to use a 623 for 35 minutes? I would think that there would be a bit too much heat building up. Even 5 minutes continuous running will heat up a Mag623 a LOT.



*Yes, it would be practical to use a 623 for 35 minutes of total run time.
I didn't say continuous 35 minutes.*


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 13, 2009)

gswitter said:


> Use one of AW's multi-level, soft-start switches.


With my Thor 10 MCP spotlight, when I turn it on low it gets dim and really yellow. I know switches work well for LEDs, but doesn't it make all incandaescent lights yellow and dim when running low? 



[email protected] said:


> A generic 12v 10w halogen with pins bent for the 623 and a Carley 809 for the 85.
> 
> Or just a backpack full of batteries.


 


Illum said:


> brightness and runtime don't complement each other, without having a backpack looking like the "old painless" its very difficult to have the best of both worlds.


I understand that, but I know on a lot of setups, like with 6P, you can get MCE LED that runs for a bit, and then drop in an 3 watt LED for run time. I was hoping I could do something similar here. 



fivemega said:


> *4S/4P protected 18500 will give you about 35 minutes run time with 623*
> 
> *You can use same set up with regulated 610 or 611 for well over 85 minutes.*
> 
> *Regulated 610 or 611 also will work with 16AA in bored out 4D with reasonable and practical run time.*


Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a 4s/4p protected 18500. I think I'm familar with the battery but I've never heard a 4s/4p before.

Okay guys, I'm essentially looking for a bright flashlight, thats fairly easy to bring camping(Mag 4D size at the largest). Now I saw this video which made just say, "I've got to have that!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Aw8nH9IrM
Here was my idea of a build for it:

$55 + shipping for Tri-bore mag from CPF member
$8.50 for 150watt 64633 bulb 
$15 for *Mag C/D High Temp Socket kits from Kia*
$68 for *15.6V (13 cells) *
$25 charger 
Wasn't long before I was looking at $180ish for a flashlight that works for just a few minutes. So I figured I would ask you guys if there were a drop in or something that would make it more useful(At least an hour of burn time)

I had no idea there were so many variations of different builds for it. All of yall have suggested so many different builds.
What I need is something:
THat can burn paper
Optional drop in bulb that is still bright that burns for an hour at least.
And Preferably under $150.

Any ideas?

THanks guys again, you've already been so helpful. Sorry for not being clear about my needs.


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 14, 2009)

Just a point to note, the stock mag switch woulden be able to handle 10 amps of current. You need to do some resistance fix to that switch or oither go for aw's soft start or jimmyM regulator.


Like i have said before you could always switch the Bulb for someting like a 20w IRC when you need more runtime, it would also be plenty bright.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 14, 2009)

That is hysterical that Mac's Torch video now has almost half a million hits!!! 

Beaver, there are many battery combinations to get up to desired voltage to run an Osram 64623 bulb. There are pro's and con's to various combinations & chemistries. 

4s4p means 4 cells in series (think 3 alkaline D cells put in series in your 3D Maglite). The "p" means in parallel. So you would have 4 stacks of 4 (16 cells total). This FiveMega light is an example of 3s3p.

If you "direct drive" an incand bulb, it takes the delivered voltage from the batteries directly to the bulb, and the light output wanes as the batteries drain. 

A regulated light (JimmyM & AlanB's regulators) keeps the voltage at a set level, unless the ending battery output falls below voltage setting...then it would also become a direct drive.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 14, 2009)

So you don't want to use matches camping? Go to the Market Place and look around. Sounds like what you want is way over your budget for a new light. I have a USL and it can start fires, but am not really interested in having that powerful of a light set up to run for 1 hour. There are lower watt lights that would be just fine and still have good output and runtime, like an 1185 with the proper battery setup, even without a regulator.

Bill


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## fivemega (Sep 14, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Any way to create a *Useful* Mag 623 or 85



*First, you need to make this clear.
What is Useful?
If you are looking for an hour run time of M*g623 under $150, I don't know of any.
Cheapest way to make a M*g623 is:
4D M*g $22
Battery spacer $10
Socket $15
Bulb $10
Reflector $10
Borofloat lens $8
4 IMR 18650 $42
Charger $15
-----------
Total $132
And run time of 8 minutes.
The only way to get target of an hour is custom made body with 4Serial/4Parallel protected AW's 18650 which will be way over $150*


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## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2009)

fivemega said:


> *First, you need to make this clear.
> What is Useful?
> If you are looking for an hour run time of M*g623 under $150, I don't know of any.
> Cheapest way to make a M*g623 is:
> ...



Well there is one way.... Take old BIG car battery (free from dump), solder the the pins to the battery terminal and a switch and glue on an old spotlight reflector. Then again that won't be a mag.


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 14, 2009)

fivemega said:


> *First, you need to make this clear.*
> *What is Useful?*
> *If you are looking for an hour run time of M*g623 under $150, I don't know of any.*
> *Cheapest way to make a M*g623 is:*
> ...


Thanks so much. I Think that is what I'll try to build. Now I just need to search around and find the links to where to buy em. 



xeonsaga88 said:


> Drop in a osram IRC 20w Bulb . Can be used with the same battery pack.Over 1 hour run time depending on battery


That is what I had in mind by more runtime. I didn't mean running the 100 watt bulb for an hour, but a drop in 10 or 20 watt bulb. Does anyone know of a good one that will work with the 4 *IMR 18650?*



[email protected] said:


> Well there is one way.... Take old BIG car battery (free from dump), solder the the pins to the battery terminal and a switch and glue on an old spotlight reflector. Then again that won't be a mag.


lol


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 14, 2009)

Illum said:


> brightness and runtime don't complement each other, without having a backpack looking like the "old painless" its very difficult to have the best of both worlds.
> 
> Mag623 is a concept light, not really something created for practicality. as for the mag85, if you need that intensity of light for longer than 20 minutes, consider buying yourself a dedicated spotlight that runs on a car battery or something bigger than those 6AH bricks in the hand held varieties


Or just get a portable HID. Most HID lights deliver 1500+ out-the-front lumens for a full hour all in a small package. There is no need to haul a monstrous battery pack.


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 14, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Or just get a portable HID. Most HID lights deliver 1500+ out-the-front lumens for a full hour all in a small package. There is no need to haul a monstrous battery pack.


 
I've had a 35 watt HID flashlgiht. It is bright, but doesn't fit the firestarter requirement.


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## Juggernaut (Sep 14, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Well there is one way.... Take old BIG car battery (free from dump), solder the the pins to the battery terminal and a switch and glue on an old spotlight reflector. Then again that won't be a mag.


 
Works for me, 5,000+ lumens for 1 hour 20 minuets:twothumbs……well except the weight:mecry:!


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## lctorana (Sep 14, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> I didn't mean running the 100 watt bulb for an hour, but a drop in 10 or 20 watt bulb.


Ah, so you're willing to do bulb swaps. Now we're talking.

Make a Mag 85, and also get a 1331 bulb to swap in - while stocks last.


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## Illum (Sep 14, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Or just get a portable HID. Most HID lights deliver 1500+ out-the-front lumens for a full hour all in a small package. There is no need to haul a monstrous battery pack.



that is certainly true


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 14, 2009)

lctorana said:


> Ah, so you're willing to do bulb swaps. Now we're talking.
> 
> Make a Mag 85, and also get a 1331 bulb to swap in - while stocks last.


 
Can it be used as a firestarter?
Also, I was looking through the other thread, and I Saw that the guy was claiming that an EO-13 could be used as a firestarter. I have a hard time believing that. IS it true?


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 14, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Can it be used as a firestarter?
> Also, I was looking through the other thread, and I Saw that the guy was claiming that an EO-13 could be used as a firestarter. I have a hard time believing that. IS it true?


 
I think it is possible with the use of asphericals,n Since firestarting is your main requirement you must as well get the 623 which will surely start a fire faster and better than a eo-13.


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 14, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Thanks so much. I Think that is what I'll try to build. Now I just need to search around and find the links to where to buy em.
> 
> 
> That is what I had in mind by more runtime. I didn't mean running the 100 watt bulb for an hour, but a drop in 10 or 20 watt bulb. Does anyone know of a good one that will work with the 4 *IMR 18650?*
> ...


 

The osram 12v IRC energy saving bulb should work well on 4 imr 18650. Most 12 v bulbs will work i think:shrug:. However the IRC bulbs give more light compared to a similar wattage bulb.


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 15, 2009)

lctorana said:


> Ah, so you're willing to do bulb swaps. Now we're talking.
> 
> Make a Mag 85, and also get a 1331 bulb to swap in - while stocks last.


 


xeonsaga88 said:


> The osram 12v IRC energy saving bulb should work well on 4 imr 18650. Most 12 v bulbs will work i think:shrug:. However the IRC bulbs give more light compared to a similar wattage bulb.


 
Can you give me a link to a list of IRC bulbs or something? I'm sorry, I'm not familar with that bulb type at all. The only bulb I know about are PR and d26 surefire lights.


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## Patriot (Sep 15, 2009)

Illum said:


> brightness and runtime don't complement each other, without having a backpack looking like the "old painless" its very difficult to have the best of both worlds.





LOL!!!! That was a pretty funny illustration Illum. Maybe I'm the only one who caught it. 





FM, regarding the "cheap" 4D 623, how long would you run one on a stock switch? :thinking: I noticed that wasn't in your list.


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## Illum (Sep 15, 2009)

Patriot said:


> LOL!!!! That was a pretty funny illustration Illum. Maybe I'm the only one who caught it.



its a old movie...thats why


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 15, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Can you give me a link to a list of IRC bulbs or something? I'm sorry, I'm not familar with that bulb type at all. The only bulb I know about are PR and d26 surefire lights.




A 25w version of halostar IRC
http://www.svetila.com/en/osram-lig...1/halostar-64429-irc-25w-12v-gy6-35-4051.html

Or if a direct dropin , comes with a reflector, the decostar IRC 20W
http://www.svetila.com/en/osram-lig...ar-88/decostar-irc-20w-12v-48860-sp-4048.html


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 15, 2009)

xeonsaga88 said:


> A 25w version of halostar IRC
> http://www.svetila.com/en/osram-lig...1/halostar-64429-irc-25w-12v-gy6-35-4051.html
> 
> Or if a direct dropin , comes with a reflector, the decostar IRC 20W
> http://www.svetila.com/en/osram-lig...ar-88/decostar-irc-20w-12v-48860-sp-4048.html


 
Are there cheaper bulbs? I mean, the 100 watt bulb is like $7 which is like 4 euros. But the bulb you mentioned above is 17 euros shipped which is over $30 dollars.


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 15, 2009)

Hi , for me the 623 is more expensive than the osram, where did you get your 623?

http://www.svetila.com/en/osram-lig...oto-film-stage-75/hlx-64623-12v-100w-570.html


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 15, 2009)

xeonsaga88 said:


> Hi , for me the 623 is more expensive than the osram, where did you get your 623?
> 
> http://www.svetila.com/en/osram-lig...oto-film-stage-75/hlx-64623-12v-100w-570.html


 
Just search on ebay, for example, take this 150 watt 623 osram bulb:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Osram-BRJ-EVB-1...0?hash=item20ad1f96d8&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

You can find the 100 watt one too, and there are some sellers with international shipping.


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 15, 2009)

Will these 20 watt or 10 watt ones work?
If so, which one should I get and what's the approx. run time?
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-X-OSRAM-10W-...s?hash=item27ab6fbf6d&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-X-OSRAM-20W-...in_0?hash=item27ab23789e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 15, 2009)

You would need to run these bulbs at higher voltage to get good output. They are rated at 2000 hours, and need to be boosted for good output, and color. Around 15 volts or so.

Bill


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 15, 2009)

Wouldn't 4 li-ion IMR batteries run it at 14.8V?


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 15, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Will these 20 watt or 10 watt ones work?
> If so, which one should I get and what's the approx. run time?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/10-X-OSRAM-10W-...s?hash=item27ab6fbf6d&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/10-X-OSRAM-20W-...in_0?hash=item27ab23789e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14



Yes they will work, they can take up to around 20v. Runtime would depend on your battery capacity. A 2000 maH battery, i would say ard 50 mins for the 20 w and ard 1h30 mins for the 10w, depending on how much you overdrive them.


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## jaybiz32 (Sep 15, 2009)

I like the 4c 3x18650 setup for the 1185. Will the 3 18650 cells fit in without any type of spacer. What type of inner tube would be neeeded to accomidate the smaller diameter of the 18650 cell?


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 15, 2009)

jaybiz32 said:


> I like the 4c 3x18650 setup for the 1185. Will the 3 18650 cells fit in without any type of spacer. What type of inner tube would be neeeded to accomidate the smaller diameter of the 18650 cell?



Could be as simple as rolled up light weight cardboard, or heavy grade paper, like photo paper.

Bill


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## jaybiz32 (Sep 15, 2009)

Any one have any pvc pipe size and length that they have used with any success?


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## [email protected] (Sep 15, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Can it be used as a firestarter?
> Also, I was looking through the other thread, and I Saw that the guy was claiming that an EO-13 could be used as a firestarter. I have a hard time believing that. IS it true?




The "1331" is rated as 9.6v 1.93a @ spec (534 b-lumens) OR 10.8v (806 b-lumens), I've got a 4D sized [email protected] running an Osram Halostar 50w which has significantly more output than the "1331" and I can tell you (even with resistance reducing mods) it won't start paper burning, melts plastic nicely though & enjoys a 30 minute+ runtime off 12 2500mAh NiMHs :thumbsup:

CPF'er StefanFS might be the chap to talk to as he was able to source some "new" Osram ES (enegry saver - high efficiency) halogen bulbs within the EU... he'd know if they were capable of fire starting for sure! 





Patriot said:


> Maybe I'm the only one who caught it?










Blaine's "old painless" minigun & ammo feeding backpack (Predator 1987)


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 16, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The "1331" is rated as 9.6v 1.93a @ spec (534 b-lumens) OR 10.8v (806 b-lumens), I've got a 4D sized [email protected] running an Osram Halostar 50w which has significantly more output than the "1331" and I can tell you (even with resistance reducing mods) it won't start paper burning, melts plastic nicely though & enjoys a 30 minute+ runtime off 12 2500mAh NiMHs :thumbsup:
> 
> CPF'er StefanFS might be the chap to talk to as he was able to source some "new" Osram ES (enegry saver - high efficiency) halogen bulbs within the EU... he'd know if they were capable of fire starting for sure!
> 
> ...




My generic philips 50w bulb do burn paper, however i am running them at 20v overdrive :twothumbs


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 16, 2009)

Okay guys, I'm basing my build off this one 5omega gave me:

*4D M*g $22*
*Battery spacer $10*
*Socket $15*
*Bulb $10*
*Reflector $10*
*Borofloat lens $8*
*4 IMR 18650 $42*
*Charger $15*

Here is my version of it;

Mag Lite 4C $19.83 shipped 
4 x IMR26500 = $70.41 shipped from Lighthound
Craftsman Brake Cylinder Hone $10.22 shipped 
for widening the the Maglite 4C(will this tool actually do it?)
52.1mm UCL Lens $6.99 shipped when combined with lighthound order of batteries.
G4 socket from 5mega $19 shipped (You still sell em right?)
64623 100 watt bulb $9.68 shipped Or I could get the 64633???
Guys, I can't seem to find a reflector for it. I found a page for it, but the seller no longer sells it. I also currently have this charger for DX:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4151
Will that charger handle those big 26500 batteries?
I switch the battery set up because I Didn't like all the wasted space in the mag 4D so I decided to spend $20 more to get more runtime and smaller flashlight.
5omega, do you have any 10-30 watt bulbs that will work on that set up that can combine shipping on?

Thanks again guys,
-BEaver_2


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 16, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Okay guys, I'm basing my build off this one 5omega gave me:
> 
> *4D M*g $22*
> *Battery spacer $10*
> ...



1.For the charger no,it charges only Get this charger, it is reliable . Or you can get a hobby charger to charge it , if you like fast charging. (All 4 cells under an hour)

2. The 623 woulden fit the G4 socket. The 623 is a GY6.35 pin bulb (6.35mm spacing between bulb pins)

3. UCL isnt up to the task for 100+W incans , i had on cracked on a 50W , Get a borofloat (http://www.flashlightlens.com/str/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=boro_lens)

4. from IMR cells , i think you can get from AW directly , cheaper. Around 65 shipped


5. The stock switch would not last that long with 10 amps flowing thru it.

6. reflector here (http://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=1739)


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 16, 2009)

Or for a easier build try this. 
5xIMR 26500
1x4D Mag (No boring needed)
1xOsram 64458 
1xAW softstart (comes with socket , softstarting, and switch and handles up to 200w)
1x boro lens
1x alu reflector


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## Jay T (Sep 16, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Okay guys, I'm basing my build off this one 5omega gave me:
> 
> *4D M*g $22*
> *Battery spacer $10*
> ...



Wrong one, this is the socket fivemega was referring to. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/171607


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 16, 2009)

xeonsaga88 said:


> 1.For the charger no,it charges only Get this charger, it is reliable . Or you can get a hobby charger to charge it , if you like fast charging. (All 4 cells under an hour)


 
You didn't give a link to the charger.


xeonsaga88 said:


> 3. UCL isnt up to the task for 100+W incans , i had on cracked on a 50W , Get a borofloat (http://www.flashlightlens.com/str/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=boro_lens)


Is this the same? It's only $9.19 shipped.





xeonsaga88 said:


> Or for a easier build try this.
> 5xIMR 26500
> 1x4D Mag (No boring needed)
> 1xOsram 64458
> ...


 
Would the batteries wobble any in the D flashlight?
Also, why did you suggest that when added a 5th battery, to use a lower 90 watt bulb? Shouldn't I use a more powerful bulb like the 15V 150 watt?
$76 shipped is a bit much for me to invest in a socket and switch. Isn't the 3 mode pretty useless anyway because of the yellownish of the bulb running on less voltage? At least that's what always happened to me with my spotlight.



Jay T said:


> Wrong one, this is the socket fivemega was referring to. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/171607


Does that socket include the switch? If not, is there a cheap one available? The website is down from where to order from.


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## KiwiMark (Sep 17, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> You didn't give a link to the charger.
> 
> Is this the same? It's only $9.19 shipped.


 
That is no cheaper than from flashlightlens.com - but it looks like it would be the same - both are listed as $6.25. I have found that shipping from flashlightlens.com is cheaper though - unless you were doing an order from Lighthound anyway.




Beaver_2 said:


> Would the batteries wobble any in the D flashlight?
> Also, why did you suggest that when added a 5th battery, to use a lower 90 watt bulb?



You would use a short length of pipe to stop the wobble.

The 90 watt bulb isn't lower when you run the voltage of 5 Li-ion cells through it. You can push the 64458 bulb to over 180W with the 5 cells. Lux Luthor has tested this bulb and got it past 21V before it blew!
Lux's tests
64458
64623

The 64458 also focuses better due to the axial filament.

But yeah - I think that the AW switch (as expensive as it may be) is pretty much essential if you are going to feed 180W to the bulb. The stock switch is going to have a pretty hard time with that amount of power flowing and is likely to fail/melt/die.

BTW
I have a Mag458 running from 5 x IMR 26500 and yeah - WOW! :twothumbs
Good for setting newspaper on fire, but don't shine it on a white wall from too close - unless you are wearing sunnies.


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 17, 2009)

C cell charger here http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=160022.


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 17, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> BTW
> I have a Mag458 running from 5 x IMR 26500 and yeah - WOW! :twothumbs
> Good for setting newspaper on fire, but don't shine it on a white wall from too close - unless you are wearing sunnies.



+1 for this 

AW's softstart here(https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/177316) :devil:


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 17, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Does that socket include the switch? If not, is there a cheap one available? The website is down from where to order from.



switch is not included in the socket.


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 17, 2009)

Woah guys, I just took a step back for a moment and realized that with every post its getting more and more expensive. It started at $132, now its:
*4D Mag $22
Battery spacer $?.??*
*Socket $70*
*Bulb $10*
*Reflector $15*
*Borofloat lens $9*
*5 IMR C batteries: $75*
*Charger $25*

That's $226 and will probably be about $*250* with shipping*.* Is there any way I can build this with 18650 batteries to cut cost? Also, are tthe socket high-med-low modes useful without too much dimming?


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 17, 2009)

Going with IMR18650 you will lose half of the runtime , and getting it into a host isnt gonna to be easy , Either you tri-bore your maglite and get a battery holder (Around 40 dollars for a decent battery holder) or go with fivemega's elephant 2 (https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/198029)- Around 140 dollars

Either option is gonna cost you more.

IMO the output you get from this thing is worth every penny:twothumbs


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 17, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Also, are tthe socket high-med-low modes useful without too much dimming?



For me even the low with 623 is enough for indoor use. Med would be quite white.
Even if you have no use for the low, med , high, the softstart is sure useful, you will get longer bulb life by using a softstart


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 17, 2009)

A few final questions:
Is it possible to use the Mag 5C for the 485 setup? 
I know I'd have to bore it out a little, but as I said, I'd like to bring it camping and a 4D mag is a bit big. 5C would be thinner and lighter right?

I'd like to keep this build under $200 if possible, so is there a cheap alternative to the AW switch and charger?
I mean, the charger cost $35 shipped. Isn't there a cheaper one somewhere? Or can I use some paper clips in my current charger and try to use that?


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## KiwiMark (Sep 17, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> I'd like to keep this build under $200 if possible, so is there a cheap alternative to the AW switch and charger?
> I mean, the charger cost $35 shipped. Isn't there a cheaper one somewhere? Or can I use some paper clips in my current charger and try to use that?




I don't know of any suitable switch that beats the AW for this application - there is a lot of power going through the switch - almost 10A. Many cheaper switches would fail with that current.

What about this charger - only $17.78 shipped. It works OK, but I don't think the 2A should be taken seriously. I use 2 of them to charge my cells twice as fast (by charging 2 at once).


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 17, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> A few final questions:
> Is it possible to use the Mag 5C for the 485 setup?
> I know I'd have to bore it out a little, but as I said, I'd like to bring it camping and a 4D mag is a bit big. 5C would be thinner and lighter right?
> 
> ...



what charger are you using now? The battery diameter is c sized so you most likely have to use crocodile clips or wires to hook them up


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 18, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> I don't know of any suitable switch that beats the AW for this application - there is a lot of power going through the switch - almost 10A. Many cheaper switches would fail with that current.
> 
> What about this charger - only $17.78 shipped. It works OK, but I don't think the 2A should be taken seriously. I use 2 of them to charge my cells twice as fast (by charging 2 at once).


 What does 2A stand for?



xeonsaga88 said:


> what charger are you using now? The battery diameter is c sized so you most likely have to use crocodile clips or wires to hook them up


I have this charger:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4151

I take it these batteries can't handle the discharge?
http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=9106


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## KiwiMark (Sep 18, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> What does 2A stand for?http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=9106




2A = 2 Amps, but not according to my multimeter!


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 18, 2009)

I doubt that they will have 4000mAh , maybe something like 3000mAh, And you will be running way over the limit at 3C discharge, the limit is at 2


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 19, 2009)

Do you think I should go with the 5C or 4D set up?


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 19, 2009)

Do note that with a mag c , you need to use the c version of aw's softstart which is rated up to 100w only. For 623 , i suggest you get a mag D, as aw's switch is rated for up to 200w


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 19, 2009)

xeonsaga88 said:


> Do note that with a mag c , you need to use the c version of aw's softstart which is rated up to 100w only. For 623 , i suggest you get a mag D, as aw's switch is rated for up to 200w


 
What if I just got a 4D mag and used these cells?:
http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2751

Could that power a 623 or mag 485 setup? It says 3C discharge.


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## Mjolnir (Sep 19, 2009)

You might want to look at the IMR 26650's at batteryspace. They are 4000 Mah, have a maximum continuous discharge of 10 amps, and are $13 a piece. However, they will not fit into maglites as well as D or C cells will.


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 19, 2009)

Are Batterspace batteries really made in the USA?
I'd like to keep this build as much as American made as possible.

Now, do 5 of these batteries with or without tabs fit in a 4D mag?


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 19, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> What if I just got a 4D mag and used these cells?:
> http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2751
> 
> Could that power a 623 or mag 485 setup? It says 3C discharge.



It has a protection circuit and a spec of" Allow a maximum of 5A+ current load" therefore will likely cut off when you switch it on


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## KiwiMark (Sep 19, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> What if I just got a 4D mag and used these cells?:
> http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2751
> 
> Could that power a 623 or mag 485 setup? It says 3C discharge.



Unfortunately no. They say that the cells themselves can handle a 3C discharge, but what they don't tell you is that the protection circuitry will NOT handle more than around 3.5 amps (personal experience with several of these cells). Also they are not as good a quality as what AW sells (AW sells what are amongst the best Li-ion cells on the market).




Beaver_2 said:


> Are Batterspace batteries really made in the USA?
> I'd like to keep this build as much as American made as possible.
> 
> Now, do 5 of these batteries with or without tabs fit in a 4D mag?



I don't think you could fit 5 of them in a 5D (they are slightly longer than standard D cells) and probably not 4 in a 4D either.


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 19, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Are Batterspace batteries really made in the USA?
> I'd like to keep this build as much as American made as possible.
> 
> Now, do 5 of these batteries with or without tabs fit in a 4D mag?



I am not really sure if it is made in the usa, but they are similar in size to aw's IMR26500. Choose no tabs. Even Aw's cells are made in china , but they have been proven to be one of the best cells to use with excellent track record.


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## KiwiMark (Sep 19, 2009)

xeonsaga88 said:


> I am not really sure if it is made in the usa, but they are similar in size to aw's IMR26500.




Ummm, 26650 cells are 15mm longer each than 26500 cells. I can fit 5 x AW IMR 26500 cells in a Mag4D, but 5 x 26650 cells would be 75mm longer than 26500 cells, which would make them a difficult fit in a 5D (might be do-able with a spring modification).

26500 cells = 26mm Dia, 50mm long, cylindrical shape
26650 cells = 26mm Dia, 65mm long, cylindrical shape.

xxyyz => xx = diameter in mm, yy= length in mm and z denotes shape (0=cylinder)

It can be confusing, but you get used to it.


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 19, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> Ummm, 26650 cells are 15mm longer each than 26500 cells. I can fit 5 x AW IMR 26500 cells in a Mag4D, but 5 x 26650 cells would be 75mm longer than 26500 cells, which would make them a difficult fit in a 5D (might be do-able with a spring modification).
> 
> 26500 cells = 26mm Dia, 50mm long, cylindrical shape
> 26650 cells = 26mm Dia, 65mm long, cylindrical shape.
> ...


 
So theorectically then 4 26650s would be a cm longer than a 5C maglite? 
Does AW ship D size Li-ion batteries?
What if Put them in a 5 or 6 D mag?


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 20, 2009)

Or what about this D battery?
http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo432600pdsizecell32v3000mah60arate96wh.aspx

Or this 1.5 D battery?
http://www.batteryspace.com/browsep...ize)-Cell---3.2V-4.5Ah--90A-Rate--14.4Wh.html


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 21, 2009)

do note that the battery you listed are lifepo4 chemistry , they have a lower nominal voltage, if you use 5 of them you will get around 16 voltage which is not very impressive with the 64458 bulb.


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 21, 2009)

isnt the battery thyat you are looking priced the same as aw's ? why wont you just get his 5x imr26500 and save yourself all the trouble


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 21, 2009)

Well what's the run time of it with 5 of AWs batteries?
The reason why I was thinking D batteries was because I was concerned about run time. I figured they're bigger so they should hold more.


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 22, 2009)

AW's are rated at 2300mAH. 64458 draws around 10 amps. That should give you ard 20 mins of runtime. Switch in a 20w bulb which draws around 1 amp at low ( around 2.2 hr) 1.5 at med (1 hr 40 min) High should be ard 1 hr or slightly lesser.

the cells you have chossen has a lower total voltage so you are not getting the optimal output


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## Chodes (Sep 22, 2009)

xeonsaga88 said:


> AW's are rated at 2300mAH. 64458 draws around 10 amps. That should give you ard 20 mins of runtime. Switch in a 20w bulb which draws around 1 amp at low ( around 2.2 hr) 1.5 at med (1 hr 40 min) High should be ard 1 hr or slightly lesser.
> 
> the cells you have chossen has a lower total voltage so you are not getting the optimal output



At 10 Amps run time will be 12 minutes give or take not much. 
If the cells were 3333mAh , then you'd get 20 minutes theoretical. Actual run time would be more like 16 minutes though.

AW IMR26500s are the obvious choice of cell for a "long" Mag.
3 fit in a 2D , 4 in a 3D , 5 in a 4D etc.

My "perfect" body is 3D. I use 4 x IMR26500 for 64623 bulb and add a 34mm extension tube and a 5th IMR26500 fits for 64458 bulb.
Use of AW softstarter allows both combinations to really shine , pun intended!

For 18650 cells , I use 4 cells and a 62138 bulb.
4 x IMR26500 would instaflash the bulb. 

For a good combo , it's not just count the cells. The type of cell makes a big difference. Different cells hold different voltages under load.

I find 64623 on 4 x 18650s very disappointing. On 4 x IMR26500 it's a match for my 64623 running on 13 cell NiMh pack. 

The bulb you probably really want is a 64440. 5 x IMR26500s in a 4D and finally run time will approach "decent" - 25 minutes! Swap bulb for 64458 when you want more output, less run time.

That's the "caveman" way to do it. Now that JimmyM regulated drivers are available, just chose body , fill with IMR26500s, chose bulb with lower working volts than total cell volts. 
1185 is a popular choice for big output with some run time. Now just chose length/run time:
2D - 30minutes run , 3D 40 minutes , 4D 50 minutes - they are approximate real world run times , not absolute maximum theoretical.

I have some old AW 3300mAh C cells - 4 in a 3D Mag85 gets me about 75 minutes run - can't do it without the regulated driver though..


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 23, 2009)

Ha i got my runtime figures wrong again  must be sleepy while i calculated those


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 23, 2009)

Okay guys, so here is what I think is my final build:
$14.99 52mm Reflector 
$81.00 For Soft Start Shipped From AW
$17.78 for C cell charger
$79.50 for 5 IMR26500 shipped
$9.19 for Borofloat Lens Shipped
$11.20 for Osram 64458 bulb
$20.00 for 4D Mag lite

$233.66. I'm going to buy a few parts every week to pay for it. 
Sounds kind of silly though to invest $213.66 to a $20 flashlight.
Oh well. Where can I get the battery spacer from to fit the C batteries in the D mag?


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 23, 2009)

Go to a hardware stall and get a pvc pipe with the right size to hold the battries so that it will not rattle. You do not need spacers for this setup , just turn over the tail cap spring.


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## Beaver_2 (Sep 24, 2009)

xeonsaga88 said:


> Go to a hardware stall and get a pvc pipe with the right size to hold the battries so that it will not rattle. You do not need spacers for this setup , just turn over the tail cap spring.


 
Alrighty, is everything else about this setup all right? Just want to make sure everything's is right before ordering it all.


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## Chodes (Sep 24, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Alrighty, is everything else about this setup all right? Just want to make sure everything's is right before ordering it all.



I think you are ready to go.
Charging won't be much fun - looks like that charger only handles 1 cell at a time?
I would suggest buy more than 1 bulb. It's fairly easy to damage a bulb just setting the light up , trial fitting etc.
Don't forget to clean bulb before switching on.


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 24, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Alrighty, is everything else about this setup all right? Just want to make sure everything's is right before ordering it all.




yeah everything is good to go , good luck on ya build , you will sure be impressed by the fire starting capabilities.


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## Beaver_2 (Oct 8, 2009)

Sorry to bug yall again, but my soft start did not come with any installation instruction. I used the search thing and couldn't find any helpful ones either. How do I install it?


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## BSBG (Oct 8, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Sorry to bug yall again, but my soft start did not come with any installation instruction. I used the search thing and couldn't find any helpful ones either. How do I install it?




It's in AW's FS thread:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/177316


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## Beaver_2 (Oct 10, 2009)

Thanks, another question, I have everything ready to go, but I don't have the reflector yet. Now can I just turn it on for a few seconds in the old reflector just to see how it runs? I'm very curious. If not, can I take the reflector out all together. Or can I use the reflector with the 20watt bulb I got?

Thanks guys, sorry for constantly bugging yall. I'll have beamshots posted up when its all done.


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## KiwiMark (Oct 10, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Now can I just turn it on for a few seconds in the old reflector just to see how it runs?




Go ahead - the plastic reflector will have no problem with a few seconds of running. If you run if for a couple of minutes on the other hand . . .


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## Beaver_2 (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey guys, I'm having a problem with my bulb emitting a little smoke. Is this normal? It seems to work fine but I haven't run it for more than 20 seconds.


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## Mjolnir (Oct 22, 2009)

Yes; that can happen when there is some kind of residue on the bulb. If anything gets on my ROP high bulb, it will smoke until it is burned off.


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## Beaver_2 (Oct 26, 2009)

Thanks for the tip Mjolnir, I was a bit worried for a little while there.

Sorry to keep bugging yall, but, I finally got this charger in the mail today.
http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2735

It says 2A, so therefore it should charge a 2.3 Ah battery in a little over an hour theorectically? Mine has been going for over 2 hours with the red LED on. Should I keep letting it charge?


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 26, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Thanks for the tip Mjolnir, I was a bit worried for a little while there.
> 
> Sorry to keep bugging yall, but, I finally got this charger in the mail today.
> http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2735
> ...



Take it off and check the cell voltage.

Bill


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## Beaver_2 (Oct 26, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Take it off and check the cell voltage.
> 
> Bill


 
How?


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 26, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> How?



Take the LiIon cell out of the charger and check its voltage using a multimeter, or DMM.

Bill


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## KiwiMark (Oct 26, 2009)

Beaver_2 said:


> Thanks for the tip Mjolnir, I was a bit worried for a little while there.
> 
> Sorry to keep bugging yall, but, I finally got this charger in the mail today.
> http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2735
> ...



Yes - the CC/CV charge algorithm means that it is only 2A during the CC (constant current) stage. Once the cell reaches 4.2V under charge the charger will switch to the CV (constant voltage) stage and will charge with less and less current while keeping the voltage at 4.2V. A charge time of 3 hours is not unusual.


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## Mjolnir (Oct 26, 2009)

I seem to remember that that charger actually charges at a rate much lower than 2 amps (I believe that it is actually below 1 amp). I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't charge with a true CC/CV algorithm either.


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## Beaver_2 (Oct 27, 2009)

Yeah, after about 3 hours they're done charging. 
Now I have a new problem that I'm concerned about, every time I out the tail cap on sparks fly out. Is this normal? I have yet to install the PVC pipe to make the batteries fit right. Is that the problem?


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## Billy Ram (Oct 28, 2009)

With my useful mag85 running great I'm about ready to build a usefull mag458. This will be my project for next month and I allready have a good idea where I can get a beautiful quad bored host. I believe I'll be using a 3" head too. "I'm not trying to build a sleeper" Just something that doesn't play arround with dark.
Billy


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