# Mod options for Mag 2C?



## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 9, 2009)

What can I do with a Mag 2C? 

As far as I know, these are the easiest Mods:

- Stock 2C Mag + 2x AW 'C' Li-ion + Mag 6D Xenon bulb = how many lumens should I get out of this?

- 2C Mag with UCL lens + 2x AW 'C' Li-ion + Aluminum reflector + Pelican Big D LOLA = Lumen?

- 2C Mag with UCL or Borofloat + 2x AW 'C' Li-ion + Aluminum reflector + Pelican Bid D HOLA = 600 lumens achievable? 

Do I need to do some resistance mod or button or socket replacement in order to run the ROP HOLA?

Thanks in advance.


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## Seiko (Apr 9, 2009)

Another "cheap" option is 
Reflector from FiveMega $25
G4 socket from FM $16 or $19 (depending brass or stainless) Will run 1111,1185, 5761 and a bunch of others
Lens (ucl or boro) $7
If you are going to run 18650's get downloads 2c mag ring kit $22 shipped.
So $70 + another 10 or so for shipping and whatever batteries and bulb you go with.

I just built the above set up, running a 5761, and I love it. I would like to run the AW C size, but they are not available, and for the used ones on the market are $40ish ea. So until they are out again stick with the 18650....

Is run time a big concern? If it is then you will want the C cells....


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 9, 2009)

Seiko said:


> Another "cheap" option is
> Reflector from FiveMega $25
> G4 socket from FM $16 or $19 (depending brass or stainless) Will run 1111,1185, 5761 and a bunch of others
> Lens (ucl or boro) $7
> ...


Ok, do you have any links for those parts?

I'd prefer to use C Li-Ion for the extra runtimes, since 18650 IMR have little capacity... but I'm ok with that as long I as get more than decent outputs.

Thanks.


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## Seiko (Apr 9, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Ok, do you have any links for those parts?
> 
> I'd prefer to use C Li-Ion for the extra runtimes, since 18650 IMR have little capacity... but I'm ok with that as long I as get more than decent outputs.
> 
> Thanks.



lamp socket for mag
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179891

Reflector This is the one I got, he has several other ones with smaller openings.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/215018

Lens can be purchased at lighthound.com, or flashlightlens.com

downloads c ring kit
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/178764
Don't need this unless going with 18650's, but you will need to do some work on the tail cap spring and maybe a spacer of your own making to run the AW C's
The output will be the same 18650 or C but the C will have a much greater run time.


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## Ogg Vorbis (Apr 9, 2009)

I'd recommend download's C ring kit, makes it very easy to use 18650 and is reversable in the future. I love the 2C form factor btw!

Some cheaper parts (reflector, lens, G4 bi-pin) can be found on KD...

Dan


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 9, 2009)

What's the expected runtimes for these lamps on 2x18650 IMR?

- ROP Low
- ROP High
- Mag 6D Xenon
- WA 1185 (3xRCR IMRs are needed right?)

Thanks again.


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## gswitter (Apr 9, 2009)

FM makes a tailcap for running 2x 18650 as well.


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## ElectronGuru (Apr 10, 2009)

Wait just a bit for IMR 26500's. High discharge C's, perfect for high performance incans loaded in a Mag C:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=191277&page=3


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 10, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> Wait just a bit for IMR 26500's. High discharge C's, perfect for high performance incans loaded in a Mag C:
> 
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=191277&page=3


That will be a dream come true!


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## Seiko (Apr 10, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> What's the expected runtimes for these lamps on 2x18650 IMR?
> 
> - ROP Low
> - ROP High
> ...



Heres the best explanation on how to figure run time I have seen. This is by DM51 in another thread.



DM51 said:


> Working out runtime is not difficult. Divide the capacity of the cell (mAh) by the current (mA). That gives you the time in hours (h). Multiply by 60 to get mins. Then reckon on a usable 80% of that time to avoid discharging the cell too low.
> 
> As with other hotwire set-ups, just make sure you don't let the light get too hot to touch. Keep it in your hand, don't set it down while it is running.
> 
> If the head gets very hot, this could overheat the batteries, and you don't want that.



And practical application of that.... Im going to use my 6p with the 1111 bulb installed (only thing I have right in front of me)

Batteries IMR 2x16340 so 550 mAh
Current it draws 3.5 A at the tailcap so 3500mA
550/3500 = 0.157 0.157x60= 9.42mins 9.42/80%= 7.53mins of runtime

Real world numbers of course will differ depending on temperature, variations in actual mAh of the battery and so on. But its a good ball park figure.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 10, 2009)

Seiko said:


> Heres the best explanation on how to figure run time I have seen. This is by DM51 in another thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation.

How many lumens does the 1111 bulb deliver? Can I use it in the Mag 2C with the proper socket? (I should get solid 30 mins on 2x18650 IMR, so I'm a happy camper).


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## Seiko (Apr 10, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> How many lumens does the 1111 bulb deliver? Can I use it in the Mag 2C with the proper socket? (I should get solid 30 mins on 2x18650 IMR, so I'm a happy camper).



In my mag with a 1111 2x18650 AW protected it draws 3680mA so call it 28 mins of run time. Might draw more or less mA with the IMR's (I am waiting on mine to arrive)

As far as lumen, yes you charge the batteries to 4.2V ea so 8.4, but under the 3.5A draw they will sag down to 7.4 or 7.2 I forget. I don't quite know how I could measure this, so I am going based off of what I have read here in the past. End result of 800-850 lumen based on luxluthors detructive testing of bulbs. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179748


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 10, 2009)

Thanks man!

I think I'm gonna stick with the ROP lamps for the 2C...

Do you know if I can use ANR 26650 MA1 batteries from A123 Systems in the 2C? They seem to be even better than 'C' IMRs...

Check it out: http://www.a123systems.com/products


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## MetalZone (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm interested to build a hotwire Mag C as well.
-Using a FM G4 socket so I can try out the different bulbs (1185, 1111, 5761, 1164/1160)
-What reflector? I'm absolutely new to this so whats the difference between cammed and camless reflector?
-UCL or Borofloat lens
-The upcoming 'C' size AW IMR cells

However, I cant decide between 2C or 3C. Advantages/disadvantages? Output? Runtime?
Would I need to use AW's soft start switch?

Oh and on a side note, I'm looking to get at least 30 to 60 mins of runtime.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 11, 2009)

MetalZone said:


> I'm interested to build a hotwire Mag C as well.
> -Using a FM G4 socket so I can try out the different bulbs (1185, 1111, 5761, 1164/1160)
> -What reflector? I'm absolutely new to this so whats the difference between cammed and camless reflector?
> -UCL or Borofloat lens
> ...


While AW C IMRs aren't out yet... Check this out: http://www.aircraft-world.com/shopexd.asp?id=5041


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## KiwiMark (Apr 11, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> Wait just a bit for IMR 26500's. High discharge C's, perfect for high performance incans loaded in a Mag C:
> 
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=191277&page=3



If I put 5 of these in a Mag 4D torch and use an Osram 64458 bulb then I should get around 6000 Lumen/180 Watts - anyone tried something like this?


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## Jay T (Apr 12, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> If I put 5 of these in a Mag 4D torch and use an Osram 64458 bulb then I should get around 6000 Lumen/180 Watts - anyone tried something like this?



No.


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## Jay T (Apr 12, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Thanks man!
> 
> I think I'm gonna stick with the ROP lamps for the 2C...
> 
> ...



The 26250s are 15mm longer than a normal "C" and about 11mm longer than an AW C Lion. You might be able to use 2 of the AW extenders.

Those A123 are also 3.3V so while they hold up to a heavy load they most likely will still be pumping out a lower voltage.


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## rockz4532 (Apr 13, 2009)

If you want to use C cells, theres one for sale.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 13, 2009)

rockz4532 said:


> If you want to use C cells, theres one for sale.


That's the whole flashlight WITHOUT batteries, though.


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## KeyGrip (Apr 27, 2009)

Can I still run the ROP high and low lamps on the new IMR C cells?


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## KiwiMark (Apr 27, 2009)

KeyGrip said:


> Can I still run the ROP high and low lamps on the new IMR C cells?



The low will probably be OK. The high wont take quite as much voltage and may not last too well.

From Lux's testing
Low:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/3854-LROP.jpg
High:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/3854-HROP.jpg


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## ElectronGuru (Apr 28, 2009)

The bad news: The standard ROP high *will* poof. 
The good news, there is a special high voltage ROP bulb set available:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2934074#post2934074


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## KiwiMark (Apr 28, 2009)

I would like to point out that the ROP Low will give a run time of about twice that of the ROP High. Also despite being less bright it still has a very good output. In fact my ROP Low is my favourite incan to use (my 5 IMR 26500 with Osram 64458 would be my favourite 'showing off' incan). The ROP Low is a great torch for day to day use - good brightness & good tint with reasonable run time and the heat generated is not too much.
I have a 2D ROP Low running with 2 protected D-Cells for over 2 hours of run time. I love the size, weight, shape and output of that Mag.

My 'showing off' hotwire is too bright for normal use, if you shine it on a white wall and look at the hotspot it will hurt your night adapted eyes, it is freakin' bright! The fact that the run time is less than 15 minutes from full charge to dead is also a big negative for normal use.

My ROP High is too big for frequent use, mainly because it is in my 6D.

My ROP Low is just right if I want a good bright incan torch that will not go flat in 12 minutes or get too hot to hold in 4 minutes. The best situation you could hope for would be to come across someone with a stock 6D at night - they would be scratching their head wondering why their torch seemed dim compared to your 2C.


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## KeyGrip (Apr 28, 2009)

Thanks Kiwimark and ElectronGuru.


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## Lunal_Tic (Apr 29, 2009)

Here's a thread with a lot of info in it: CR123 2C MagMod and bulb info (more pics!!)

On the protected Cs mentioned above, I've had to mod the light to get extra length since they are slightly longer than regular C cells. IIRC Fivemega and Download offer/offered solutions for that problem.

-LT


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## ElectronGuru (May 2, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> there is a special high voltage ROP bulb set available



Confirmed: The 3853 ROP High bulb will NOT poof running from two freshly charged IMR26500's.


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## KeyGrip (May 2, 2009)

Awesome. Time to get me some IMRs. And a bipin socket and a 5761.


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## ElectronGuru (May 2, 2009)

KeyGrip said:


> Awesome. Time to get me some IMRs. And a bipin socket and a 5761.



Just so you know, a pair of fresh IMR26500s will poof the 5761 (and 1111).


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## KeyGrip (May 3, 2009)

I guess that's why I post here first. I can still use a 5761 with my two Li-Ion C cells, so I might as well.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (May 3, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> Confirmed: The 3853 ROP High bulb will NOT poof running from two freshly charged IMR26500's.


Thanks for sharing.

Where did you find these special high-voltage ROP bulbs?


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## ElectronGuru (May 3, 2009)

I ordered them from the Battery Station. BTW, I just completed a color profile (my first ever) of the entire ROP bulb family:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2941583#post2941583


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## thebigjim (May 5, 2009)

Is it me being slightly dim, or does the Bulb destruction test show that a ROP Hi bulb will not flash at 8.4v? Is that not what the two AW IMR C cells will put out to it?

Please educate me as I fear I will blow my hands off very soon when I order my parts.

Still cant decide on a SF6P with 2 x IMR 16340 or a Mag 2C with something blinding in it.

Jim.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (May 5, 2009)

thebigjim said:


> Is it me being slightly dim, or does the Bulb destruction test show that a ROP Hi bulb will not flash at 8.4v? Is that not what the two AW IMR C cells will put out to it?
> 
> Please educate me as I fear I will blow my hands off very soon when I order my parts.
> 
> ...


*+1!*

That got me too...

According to Lux Luthor's destructive tests, the ROP High only flashes at 8.6 volts. And while it is known that IMR Cs can keep its voltage far better than any regular li-ion cell, it is unlikely that it will maintain a solid 8.4+ volts under that high load.

What I am missing here?


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## ElectronGuru (May 5, 2009)

As you can see here, I'm equally perplexed:

*2x - IMR26500* (7.4 - 8.4 volts)
3854 ROP Low - GOOD
3854 ROP High -  (0.2 under?) :thinking:
3853 ROP Low - GOOD
3853 ROP High - GOOD
Philips 5761 -  (0.5 over)
WA 1111 -  (0.1 over)
WA 1274 - GOOD (9.1 limit)
Osram 64250 -  (0.3 over)
Osram 64275 -  (0.3 over)
Osram 64430 - GOOD (10.9 limit)


*3x - IMR26500* (11.1 - 12.6 volts)
WA 1331 -  (0.6 over)
WA 1185 -  (0.3 over) <- safe after 24hr rest
WA 1166 - GOOD (14.1 limit)


I think of ROP as my low complication / high reliability setup. Whichever side of max line it falls, the 6v bulb is to close to the line, making it high maintenance (have I over charged, did I rest the cells, etc). Meanwhile, the 7.2v bolb looks outstanding and promises higher reliability with these cells - And most importantly, Mr Lux has agreed to evaluate them!

As for 6P vs 2C, check out post 2:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228965

I'm still waiting on the 1274 bulb for my 6P, but I'm happiest so far with the 9P+1331 and the 2C with 7.2v ROP-H


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## lctorana (May 5, 2009)

thebigjim said:


> Is it me being slightly dim, or does the Bulb destruction test show that a ROP Hi bulb will not flash at 8.4v? Is that not what the two AW IMR C cells will put out to it?


There is a difference between ramping up to a voltage, and hitting a cold bulb with the same voltage, cold.

The flashpoint for "cold start" is obviously lower.

Hence the use of soft-starters, NTCs etc.

Plus there is a bell-curve; some bulbs will inevitably have higher or lower flashpoints than those tested, and what nobody knows is the spread of that distribution.


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## ElectronGuru (May 5, 2009)

Great explanation. 

For reference, all the bulbs used had zero to very few minutes of cumulative use.


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## KiwiMark (May 5, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> *+1!*
> 
> That got me too...
> 
> ...



I used 2 x KD Li-ion protected D-Cells on a ROP Hi bulb, my total run time before failure was about zero seconds. Without a soft starter the chances of a ROP high blowing when the 8.4V first hits is going to be more than no chance. I don't think Lux was willing to blow a couple of hundred bulbs so that he could tell us the range of voltages that the bulb would blow at - so you should use his charts as a guide, don't treat it as gospel. Any voltage near the point where Lux's tests indicated a bulb flashed will be risky, the bulb MAY blow at .2 or .3 lower if you are unlucky.


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## morelightnow (May 15, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Thanks man!
> 
> I think I'm gonna stick with the ROP lamps for the 2C...
> 
> ...





Yes, you can use 2 a123 cells in a 2c, but it requires a special parts and a little customizing. I run a 5761 bulb by 2 of them for a very short bright light. I know the bulb is not as bright as it could be, but it beats anything else i have. Plus i don't have to worry about electronics or flashing the bulb. i haven't done a runtime test, but i calculated 20 minutes which at the time was as good a M6 and that was my goal. I'll take pics sometime soon so you can see what i mean. 

One more thing. I had to make a custom charger for these batteries, so take that into consideration when making your decision.


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