# Bright lights VS aggressive animals?



## Sphinxxx (Apr 30, 2016)

I have always wondered about this. A disorientation strobe or even a nice constant strobe must be enough to put most animals off. I have never had the opportunity to try it out. And i don't want to try it on my cat because i kinda like my cat. I grew up in high desert Nevada and i am back here for a while. The Mountain Lions seem to be having a good year. I am not particularly worried. I generally dont think much about them and i trust my Fight-Or-Flight. I cant imagine them getting aggressive, so this is mostly theoretical. Bears are fairly foreign to me but they are a part of some of my missions out of state. I guess i am thinking about this because i cant really run 3 miles in 17 minutes since my injury. 
Anyways, i was wondering if any of your outdoorsy types have had any encounters where you were able to blast a critter in the face with 1000 lumens and could judge the animals reaction. Or if anybody could site a study on this.


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## Str8stroke (Apr 30, 2016)

Been on many a night hunts. But never had any aggressive encounters. Almost all nonaggressive, either froze like a statue or turned and scurried off. I would be curious to hear of any of our members had aggressive animals attack while they were armed with mega lumens. If they are still with us. hehe


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## matt4350 (Apr 30, 2016)

Not quite the same sort of thing you're talking about, but I had an aggressive dog come at me when I tried to enter a yard a night once, growling and barking. I can't be sure it would have attacked me, but it made me wary. I strobed it, and the dog went quiet and then sat. It seemed like the dog was confused, but I don't know how you'd judge that properly. In hindsight, I think the same thing might have been achieved just by shining an intense light at the dog, but I didn't try that so I'll never know.


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## Sphinxxx (Apr 30, 2016)

matt4350 said:


> Not quite the same sort of thing you're talking about, but I had an aggressive dog come at me when I tried to enter a yard a night once, growling and barking. I can't be sure it would have attacked me, but it made me wary. I strobed it, and the dog went quiet and then sat. It seemed like the dog was confused, but I don't know how you'd judge that properly. In hindsight, I think the same thing might have been achieved just by shining an intense light at the dog, but I didn't try that so I'll never know.


Thats a great first person example. I would think the outback is a little scarier, but maybe just because its totally foreign to me. Again i am not too worried, just curious. Good story though. Man i wish i had a bright light on the island of Maui. I stalked around the jungle at night and i thought i would die more than once when encountered by the local Pitbull/mastiff mix type dogs. I have fought one and i can't hurt them without a weapon, its scary. Dogs generally dont bark and bite in the same encounter, and those dogs didnt say much, they just got to work. People are similar haha.


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## Woods Walker (May 1, 2016)

Sphinxxx said:


> I have always wondered about this. A disorientation strobe or even a nice constant strobe must be enough to put most animals off. I have never had the opportunity to try it out. And i don't want to try it on my cat because i kinda like my cat. I grew up in high desert Nevada and i am back here for a while. The Mountain Lions seem to be having a good year. I am not particularly worried. I generally dont think much about them and i trust my Fight-Or-Flight. I cant imagine them getting aggressive, so this is mostly theoretical. Bears are fairly foreign to me but they are a part of some of my missions out of state. I guess i am thinking about this because i cant really run 3 miles in 17 minutes since my injury.
> Anyways, i was wondering if any of your outdoorsy types have had any encounters where you were able to blast a critter in the face with 1000 lumens and could judge the animals reaction. Or if anybody could site a study on this.



I can't speak for every critter however foxes, coyotes, large and small loose dogs, domestic cats, bob cats, coons, mice, possums, fisher cats, smaller weasels, black bears, various birds of pry including the dreaded owl etc etc were all unimpressed by my flashlight. The encounters would probably been the same with or without a flashlight but that's just my field experience using human perception based on years of dirt time and being being a flashlight/headlamp user. AKA No science. It does feel good lighting up an area to ID the glowing eyes. I think nature can detect confidence. If you look and act like prey that's exactly what you are. On a side note cats are some of nature's most efficient killers. If one is stalking you adds are you will find out during the attack not before. Speaking of killers humans have an earned reputation within nature as very good ones hence why we are often off the menu. Basically you are what goes bump in the night, the monster under the bed.


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## novice (May 1, 2016)

I had an experience several years ago which did not give me much confidence. I was out walking my dog, who was normally a sweetie, but she could get jazzed when approached by strange dogs. This was in town, and someone's pit bull got loose, and came over to "investigate" my dog. My dog is getting worked up, and I am holding her back on the leash. I don't want her escalating the situation, but by holding her in close, I am keeping her defenseless (though against a pit bull, it would not have been a contest, anyway). I manage to get my Fenix P2D out an dialed up to max - supposedly 180 lumens although that is probably inflated. The pit bull is coming in fast, and I am shining the P2D directly into the pit bull's eyes at point blank range, while forcefully shouting, "No! No! No! No!". Neither the light, nor my voice, made a whit of difference. I was considering kicking the dog away, but I held back, thinking that if the dog was just aggressively curious, I did not want to make things worse. Fortunately - thank you, higher powers - the pit bull had no malevolent designs, and eventually lost interest after sniffing my dog, and broke off and trotted back across the street to its not-so-fenced yard. I know that there are much brighter lights out there now, but I don't have a lot of confidence in light as a deterrent against an aggressive animal. And this pit bull wasn't even that aggressive, in the biting sense of the word.


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## bykfixer (May 2, 2016)

There was a thread here about a guy who photoned a racoon who looked at him as if to say "pffft, what do you want?" and kept on rumaging. 

In my encounters with wildlife they tend to freeze briefly (deer in headlights thing) then move away. Like others said, it's because humans are scary to the animals. 

I'd have to say flashlights don't work for scaring them away, but they will buy you time to get plan b started.


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## Wendee (May 2, 2016)

Woods Walker said:


> I can't speak for every critter however foxes, coyotes, large and small loose dogs, domestic cats, bob cats, coons, mice, possums, fisher cats, smaller weasels, black bears, various birds of pry including the dreaded owl etc etc were all unimpressed by my flashlight. The encounters would probably been the same with or without a flashlight....



Bears are NOT afraid of flashlights? Oh boy! I didn't like reading that, sigh. 

We have a camp that's literally in the middle of nowhere. Last season we caught bears and wolves (my husband says "coyotes", I disagree) on our critter cam, at night, right smack on our campsite! I always knew they were around but after seeing it on camera, I really got the creeps. 

We each have a can of bear spray. I also have a mini marine horn, which after watching videos, it seems that bears are NOT afraid of air-horns (why not?). So, I thought, ok, I'll shine 1000 lumens and/or strobe to scare it away. So now I read that bears are NOT afraid of flashlights? 

I guess I'm left with only the bear spray (in worse case scenario). The problem with that is, if the wind is blowing towards me, the spray will hit ME. I can't ask the bear to kindly move down wind before I spray him. 

I also know to extend my arms up/out (to appear larger) and yell, apparently that scares them (but an air-horn doesn't? It's so loud it hurts!). I'm not sure if that would scare a mountain lion and I sure wouldn't want to be the one to test that theory.

Since it seems that flashlight/strobe won't scare wild animals, I suggest the OP carries "bear spray" if something changes his mind about mountain lions not being aggressive.

If there's something better, I hope someone posts it because I'd buy whatever works the best! Oh, except a gun, being in Canada and all.

Marine Air-Horn, Bear Spray, Thrunite TN4A, whistle


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## bykfixer (May 2, 2016)

A friend of mine hunts coyotes, and other varmints. 
Being where I live those and bear are slowly returning from a 30-50 year absence. So last year I quizzed him about the black bear that scared the heck out of me. He indicated that it had probably never encountered a human before. And that by nature they are curious. That once it sniffed out a curious smell it will investigate but unless it's young are nearby will likely not attack. 

He indicated that is the case in his experience with most wildlife in the mid atlantic area of the US. It's like if they approach you they are in flight or flight mode with flight being default plan A.


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## Wendee (May 2, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> .... It's like if they approach you they are in flight or flight mode with flight being default plan A.


: 

Yes, that's what I've heard and read (that they'll run away). 

While researching bears on YouTube, I made the mistake of watching a couple of bear attack videos. My advice to others is "Don't do that, ever, for any reason!". All it did was scare the life out of me. That along with seeing them at our camp on our critter cam (battery operated video/photo camera mounted on a tree) has made me decide to "expect the best but prepare for the worst", just in case. I'm pretty sure a bear would run away (I hope) but better safe than sorry. 

I disappointed to learn that it wouldn't be afraid of strobe or high mode on a flashlight. Not only to protect us from bears, but that was my excuse to buy a super powerful flashlight, lol. Now, I'll have to come up with a different excuse. :thinking:


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## Obijuan Kenobe (May 2, 2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtC14cpwwXg

That's how you do it.

obi


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## Kudzu (May 2, 2016)

> I'm pretty sure a bear would run away (I hope) but better safe than sorry.



That's been true in my half-dozen or so bear encounters while hiking. I've usually just seen a big furry rump running away as fast as it could go. Talking or yelling and making yourself look big is your best bet, then slowly back away. Spray them if they continue to approach. The worst thing you can do is turn and run - that's like ringing the dinner bell. 

I've usually been more worried about moose.


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## bykfixer (May 2, 2016)

How about a bb gun with knock out darts?

I say that half kidding...but not really.
Where fire arms are illegal bow n arrows or other old world approaches should be considered.


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## Wendee (May 2, 2016)

Obijuan Kenobe said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtC14cpwwXg
> 
> That's how you do it.
> 
> obi



Wow! He's following the bear with his video camera before it charged him? Brave guy! oo:

So, yes, it seems that bears really are afraid of the "raise arms and yell" technique but they're not afraid of air-horns or strobe lights, like I thought they would be. Good to know! 

I wonder if that technique would work on mountain lions (to give the OP an alternate way to scare them away, since flashlight wouldn't work)


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## fadon (May 2, 2016)

Sphinxxx said:


> The Mountain Lions seem to be having a good year. I am not particularly worried. I generally dont think much about them and i trust my Fight-Or-Flight. I cant imagine them getting aggressive, so this is mostly theoretical.



Seems legit. I once tried flashing a strobe to a stray cat about a foot away using my S1 Baton. But the cat seems unfazed by it and didn't even blink or move an inch. So I guess lions and tigers would behave more or less the same, as they are from the same family. [emoji28]


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## xxo (May 2, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> How about a bb gun with knock out darts?
> 
> I say that half kidding...but not really.
> Where fire arms are illegal bow n arrows or other old world approaches should be considered.



Last time I was in big bear country I carried a 12 ga. pump loaded with Brenneke slugs (supposedly standard slugs are a bit marginal in penetration for big bears), probably would go with a auto loaded with the same slugs today, simply because I shoot auto better and they kick less.


I have heard that in areas where bears are a real problem, they can be scared away from a safe distance with "bird bombs" (basically noise maker shells) or with skeet shells fired close to the bear at a distance to scare them, and if this fails they can be peppered in the rump with the no.9 shot from a distance without harm. I would imagine sling shot or air rifle might do the same from a safe distance??? BUT if it didn't work and the bear decides to charge I would sure want to have a real gun!


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## xxo (May 2, 2016)

Wendee said:


> Wow! He's following the bear with his video camera before it charged him? Brave guy! oo:
> 
> So, yes, it seems that bears really are afraid of the "raise arms and yell" technique but they're not afraid of air-horns or strobe lights, like I thought they would be. Good to know!
> 
> I wonder if that technique would work on mountain lions (to give the OP an alternate way to scare them away, since flashlight wouldn't work)




Making yourself look as big and dangerous is good.....if you run you are telling the bear you are prey. Sometimes the bear will try several false charges before committing himself to an attack, either to scare you or see if you are prey.

As for mountain lions, chances are you won't see the one that intends to attack you until it is too late.


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## Woods Walker (May 2, 2016)

Wendee said:


> Bears are NOT afraid of flashlights? Oh boy! I didn't like reading that, sigh.
> 
> We have a camp that's literally in the middle of nowhere. Last season we caught bears and wolves (my husband says "coyotes", I disagree) on our critter cam, at night, right smack on our campsite! I always knew they were around but after seeing it on camera, I really got the creeps.
> 
> ...



Personally I consider humans far more dangerous because we are. The bright light couldn't hurt as it would allow you to see your target for that spray. Also it might give you more confidence and as stated if you look and act like prey that's exactly what you are. How you carry yourself and your follow up actions are what matters most IMHO. Predators be they humans or animals are not easily impressed when predatory, territorial or if protecting young. Shine a flashlight in my face isn't going to intimate, scare or discourage me from doing anything. Neither would an air horn not that I pose a threat to anyone other than trout or deer when in season. Just saying so what. Heck I must have shinned the ZL SC5w in my face 1/2 dozen times on high learning that UI and guess what? Nothing. Same goes for those critters I illuminated with 900-1000 lumen flashlights and headlamps. That said nothing in nature and very often with people wants a fight they might loose. Very often nature tries to avoid conflict if there is no gain. Even bees will on occasion bump into people or animals before attacking. Rattlesnakes can bluff and give dry bites. Bears can bluff or as is most often the case run away. Really it's mostly the bugs which are actually after you.


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## Lou Minescence (May 2, 2016)

Bright lights scare off non aggressive animals at best. Ive shined a few aggressive dogs with almost zero effect on them. Once in a while one will be temporarily startled but that is all. 
Thats my experience...


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## Wendee (May 2, 2016)

Woods Walker said:


> ... Shine a flashlight in my face isn't going to intimate, scare or discourage me from doing anything...



I understand what you mean. I wonder though if I was able to shine a flashlight into they eyes of a person who had never seen one before (say, 500 years ago), wouldn't that shock them and stop them in their tracks? I assume it would? I thought it would be the same for a wild animal who had never seen such a thing, especially if the light is super bright, in the dark, so they can't see anything except the bright light (and more so for strobe). I understand now that I was wrong but I'm still surprised that it wouldn't scare them. I thought it would be like me seeing a flying saucer or something. Now that I think of it, I wonder if strobe is of any use at all then, for any reason...hmm. 

I agree about the bugs. I'm actually more worried about forgetting my mosquito net than I am about forgetting the bear spray.  I keep a "Sea to Summit" head net in my purse, so I know that I'll never forget to bring it. In case someone reading this might need something like this for camping or hiking this summer, check out that one. It's the best mosquito net I've ever used and it packs up into a tiny pouch. I'm going to buy another one as a backup (in case I lose this one). 

Now I'll go see if I can find any posts or videos about "strobe" mode and see if it's been _proven_ to actually be effective on people. I don't think I'd ever have to use it, but I'm curious to know.


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## fadon (May 2, 2016)

There's a thread about the practicality of strobe that you can read here. But I probably use it just to annoy someone, or something.


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## Woods Walker (May 3, 2016)

Wendee said:


> Wow! He's following the bear with his video camera before it charged him? Brave guy! oo:
> 
> So, yes, it seems that bears really are afraid of the "raise arms and yell" technique but they're not afraid of air-horns or strobe lights, like I thought they would be. Good to know!
> 
> I wonder if that technique would work on mountain lions (to give the OP an alternate way to scare them away, since flashlight wouldn't work)



Here is a bear encounter in my driveway. I followed it but then stopped when the critter gave me a look over it's shoulder. Glad it didn't end in a territory dispute as I was feeling my territory violated. I don't care for that. LOL!


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## Woods Walker (May 3, 2016)

Wendee said:


> I understand what you mean. I wonder though if I was able to shine a flashlight into they eyes of a person who had never seen one before (say, 500 years ago), wouldn't that shock them and stop them in their tracks? I assume it would? I thought it would be the same for a wild animal who had never seen such a thing, especially if the light is super bright, in the dark, so they can't see anything except the bright light (and more so for strobe). I understand now that I was wrong but I'm still surprised that it wouldn't scare them. I thought it would be like me seeing a flying saucer or something. Now that I think of it, I wonder if strobe is of any use at all then, for any reason...hmm.
> 
> I agree about the bugs. I'm actually more worried about forgetting my mosquito net than I am about forgetting the bear spray.  I keep a "Sea to Summit" head net in my purse, so I know that I'll never forget to bring it. In case someone reading this might need something like this for camping or hiking this summer, check out that one. It's the best mosquito net I've ever used and it packs up into a tiny pouch. I'm going to buy another one as a backup (in case I lose this one).
> 
> Now I'll go see if I can find any posts or videos about "strobe" mode and see if it's been _proven_ to actually be effective on people. I don't think I'd ever have to use it, but I'm curious to know.



I have actually shined fashlights at about everything in the woods and even the little foxes weren't impressed. LOL! Really. Even the little night fox followed me out of curiosity however kept it's distance. Here is a funky story. I was night running with a HP12 headlamp then seen glowing eyes heading towards me. I guess coyote however neither party my self or the critter seemed willing to change direction so we ran past each other. I was on a 9 mile night backpack run. The coyote didn't care about the 900 lumen turbo. We past each other at a good clip and were hundreds of yards apart in seconds like two cars on the highway.


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## Skaaphaas (May 3, 2016)

For a very long time now game reserves in Africa offer night-time game viewing drives, during which very powerful spotlights are used to locate and illuminate the animals. 

Light simply does not scare them away. 

Where light scares animals is with those that cull vermin animals (black-backed jackal being a big problem in South Africa's sheep farming community), but that's because the animals have learned to associate the light with danger. So more of a Pavlov's dog response, rather than a true reaction to the light. 

The only reason I'd use light on an animal at night is for me to see it more clearly.


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## d88 (May 3, 2016)

I'm sure you guys will be grateful to learn that attempting to verbally reason with a bear is also doomed to failure.:thumbsup:


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## Wendee (May 3, 2016)

d88 said:


> I'm sure you guys will be grateful to learn that attempting to verbally reason with a bear is also doomed to failure.:thumbsup:




LOL!! 

Too funny!! I can see myself reacting the same way, lol! The bear was very rude to continue to wreck her kayak when she was politely requesting that he stop!. No manners! LOL! 

Off to camp now to continue building our "micro-cabin" (aka "the wooden tent"). I won't sleep in a real tent there now (especially now that I know bears have no manners!). 

Have a great day CPF!


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## dc38 (May 3, 2016)

It doesn't work most of the time...only on animals with a higher level of intelligence.


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## Capolini (May 3, 2016)

I see Deer,Owls, Racoons, Foxes, Opposums,ONCE IN AWHILE A COYOTE and other creatures every night. For the most part they stand there when they see my light,especially the Deer.Then my HUSKY Capo has a stare down w/ them .,then they run away!!! I DO NOT THINK THE LIGHT IS A deterrent .........Unless they get too close and I BLAST THEM W/ 750kCD!! 

THIS CAP LOCK KEEPS STICKING!!


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## Sphinxxx (May 4, 2016)

Wow the bear vs kayak is hilarious. "It's september, you are supposed to be sleeping" like the bear is gonna be like "oh golly look at the time, well then, g'nite" What an idiot. Just mace it already. And that swedish dude is my hero. Lots of good stories here. 
Generally if a critter worries me (rattlesnakes, giant centipedes....) i spend some time with the animals and soon learn to respect them. Respect takes the place of fear. Hopefully i will have the opportunity to observe some bears and get more comfortable with how they behave. It seems that the Mountain Lions share the space and have a healthy mutual respect for us. I am just mystified by how rarely i spot the animals. The best scare i have had was when i heard some lion cubs fighting very close by through thick juniper forest. I backed out of there in a hurry. I see their tracks just about every time i take a walk. I found countless carcasses, found their little nests in the willows, with nearby boneyards, less than a quarter mile from my house. So perhaps i don't spot them (probably because i am looking down at their tracks lol), but i'm certain they spot me on the regular. On long midnight runs in the snow i figured that if they really wanted to get me i was doomed. I often crossed bloody snail-trails from prey being dragged through the snow and my only thought was "oh good, they have already eaten", and on those occasions i had markedly faster times on my 10k course. But this year i got myself a decent spotlight (M25C2 Turbo) and i can't run, so hopefully i will have the time and the throw to spot some from a safe distance.


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## vadimax (May 4, 2016)

This is why there are regions on this planet where walking without a gun is prohibited.


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## vadimax (May 4, 2016)

Wendee said:


> Wow! He's following the bear with his video camera before it charged him? Brave guy! oo:
> 
> So, yes, it seems that bears really are afraid of the "raise arms and yell" technique but they're not afraid of air-horns or strobe lights, like I thought they would be. Good to know!
> 
> I wonder if that technique would work on mountain lions (to give the OP an alternate way to scare them away, since flashlight wouldn't work)



To scare a bear you need to start from that:


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## mcnair55 (May 4, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> How about a bb gun with knock out darts?
> 
> I say that half kidding...but not really.
> Where fire arms are illegal bow n arrows or other old world approaches should be considered.



As an air arms hobbyist, a bb gun would have no effect at all,for humane reasons if you aim to shoot you aim to kill or not bother.


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## bykfixer (May 4, 2016)

Guess you missed the knock out darts part there?

You know, like the folks on tv who tag big cats and stuff...or your local dog warden?


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## gritzo (May 7, 2016)

You cannot blind a dog or cat with any type of light...
In the dark, canine eyes react to exposure to light differently than human eyes because dogs ( along with cats and many other animals) possess a light-reflecting surface known as the tapetum lucidum, located between the optic nerve and the retina. It operates like a mirror, reflecting the light and allowing the rods and cones another opportunity to pick up the limited amount of light available at night.

This why the eyes seem to glow when you shine a bright light into their eyes. I have even tried with my own dog. He just stands their while I blast my Tk75 VNQ at him from about 20 yards away and looks like he is saying " what the hell are you doing? and starts actually walking toward me looking directly into the light.


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## Wendee (May 7, 2016)

gritzo said:


> You cannot blind a dog or cat with any type of light...
> In the dark, canine eyes react to exposure to light differently than human eyes because dogs ( along with cats and many other animals) possess a light-reflecting surface known as the tapetum lucidum, located between the optic nerve and the retina. It operates like a mirror, reflecting the light and allowing the rods and cones another opportunity to pick up the limited amount of light available at night.
> 
> This why the eyes seem to glow when you shine a bright light into their eyes. I have even tried with my own dog. He just stands their while I blast my Tk75 VNQ at him from about 20 yards away and looks like he is saying " what the hell are you doing? and starts actually walking toward me looking directly into the light.



Interesting! I have two cats and I didn't know that! When playing around with my flashlights I always made sure to never point in their direction. 

I did test the "flashlight vs aggressive animals" on a squirrel the other day at my camp (lol, really). I've been feeding them (and chipmunks) for years so they take peanuts right out of my hand. When I had the flashlight turned on (AA battery flashlight) the squirrel came right up to my hand but wouldn't take the peanut (that was a first). It could be though that he was afraid of the strange "object" itself (not necessarily the light). I actually filmed it. I might post it on YouTube as "Monster flashlight vs Wild Beast"..haha. 

Good to know about cats and dogs. Thanks for posting that.


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## StorminMatt (May 11, 2016)

The other day while hiking at night in Auburn, I came face to face with a small fox. I had my Solarforce L2m with Sportac Triple Nichia running off 2x18650. Admittedly, it's not the brightest thing on the planet. And it certainly doesn't produce a very concentrated beam. But overall brightness is certainly respectable. He just stood there looking at me, and didn't do much. It wasn't until I rolled a rock down the hill like a bowling ball that he finally decided to run into the brush at the side of the trail. So I have to agree that a light doesn't really deter animals. I have to wonder about a laser pointer, though. At the very least, it might temporarily blind an aggressive animal.


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## chillinn (May 11, 2016)

gritzo said:


> You cannot blind a dog or cat with any type of light...



The tapetum lucidum works as you describe in the animals that have it, exhibits eyeshine when light hits it, and allows for superior nightvision. There is not, however, any quality I am aware of about the tapetum lucidum that would prevent blindness from intense light. It assists in low light situations, that is its evolutionary purpose. This claimed second purpose of preventing light blindness sounds rather a massive stretch of the imagination. If anyone can find a citation backing up this claim with any sort of science, I'd appreciate it.


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## StorminMatt (May 12, 2016)

chillinn said:


> The tapedum lucidum works as you describe in the animals that have it, exhibits eyeshine when light hits it, and allows for superior nightvision. There is not, however, any quality I am aware of about the tapedum lucidum that would prevent blindness from intense light. It assists in low light situations, that is its evolutionary purpose. This claimed second purpose of preventing light blindness sounds rather a massive stretch of the imagination. If anyone can find a citation backing up this claim with any sort of science, I'd appreciate it.



Not to mention that, in all situations where 'A' protects against 'B', there is some level of 'B' which will overwhelm 'A'.


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## Woods Walker (May 12, 2016)

Bottom line.

Gun.





If not spray.





Lastly party with the bush axe.





What's not going to work....






LOL!


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## Lou Minescence (May 12, 2016)

I have never encountered an aggressive animal except other domestic dogs when I have my dog with me. Wild animals only scare me when rabies is around. Flashlights are good for sweeping an area at night so you and the animal can be aware of each other. That is probably the best 'defense' a flashlight can offer.


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## xevious (Jan 7, 2019)

While animals are accustomed to bright light (the sun), it appearing at night from a small source isn't going to be anything unusual enough to alarm them. A strobe, however, is something they never see. It won't "scare them off" but it will confuse them enough to give a little bit of extra time to get away. That's about it. I do wonder if there's some kind of wavelength on the light spectrum that might interfere more prominently with an animal's vision... if so, that could be an excellent backup defensive device.


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## Tachead (Jan 7, 2019)

I use a high power rifle or shotgun with 3" magnum slugs for aggressive animals personally. If I don't have those a flashlight would be the last thing I would try. A magnum handgun, high percentage OC Bear spray, bear bangers, a high voltage tazer, or heck even a fair length dagger or axe would be a much better choice. Having a flashlight too is never a bad idea but, I would never expect it will offer much more then light when you are dealing with a determined aggressive animal.


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## bigburly912 (Jan 7, 2019)

xevious said:


> A strobe, however, is something they never see. It won't "scare them off" but it will confuse them enough to give a little bit of extra time to get away. That's about it.



Doesn’t work on bears, coyotes, or dogs. Ive tried.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 8, 2019)

I've had some limited success by using a bright light on annoying dogs that run up to me. It tends to slow them down and confuse them, but only for a few seconds. However, they weren't being hostile, and I don't expect it would work with an attacking dog.

But, if nothing else, it usually alerts the dog owner that I don't appreciate being jumped at by their unleashed pet.


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## xevious (Jan 8, 2019)

Bigburly912 said:


> Doesn’t work on bears, coyotes, or dogs. Ive tried.


I have seen some people say the same thing, while others say it causes the animal to pause a bit. None flee in fear.

I wonder if anyone has done studies on the visible wavelengths of light for animal eyes and found any that would induce disorientation or confusion for some period of time. But ultimately, there must be better deterrents. I've often wondered about sound reproduction. Cycle through the most ferocious animal sounds and one is bound to tell the animal "I'm really bad *** and will kill you if you mess with me," causing them to back off.


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## wweiss (Jan 9, 2019)

A 5$ boater's pocket air horn @160db always worked for me...


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## Fireclaw18 (Jan 11, 2019)

I guess we just need flashlight technology to advance more. 

1,000 lumen flashlight is not enough to scare a bear. Maybe a 500,000 lumen EDC will work!


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## bigburly912 (Jan 11, 2019)

My 13000 TN32UTvn doesn’t do it. They look for a minute but there’s no deterrent. Firecrackers work the best for bears in my experience. Or shoot them in the heart with a bow during hunting season and eat them. That usually keeps them from being too aggressive.


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## xevious (Jan 11, 2019)

Fireclaw18 said:


> I guess we just need flashlight technology to advance more.
> 
> 1,000 lumen flashlight is not enough to scare a bear. Maybe a 500,000 lumen EDC will work!


At that point, given the power requirement, might as well just use a flame thrower. :candle:


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## kelmo (Jan 11, 2019)

I posted this in another thread a loooong time ago. I was out walking one summer night with the Wife and I had a 9P with a turbohead and MN16 LA. 200 focused lumens. This dog sees me and makes a bee line at me in a full run. I shine my beam in his eyes all the way in. The first thing he does is lick my flashlight then does the happy dog dance around me. It was a lab and I thought he was going to break my leg with his wagging tail. The moral of the story is lights unless backed up with superior firepower do not work!


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## bigburly912 (Jan 11, 2019)

I remember that exact post kelmo. If I’m not mistaken there is one somewhere on this forum of me about 10 feet from a black bear shining an M2Xvn in his eyes and him looking at me like “where’s my sammich” People here used to think it was cute to feed the bears and now they destroy our trash and aren’t afraid of anything except loud noises. I keep firecrackers, I’ve never had them not work to scare a bear.


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## vadimax (Jan 12, 2019)

For bears you need this sort of a flashlight:







Otherwise you are just food.


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## mickb (Jan 12, 2019)

Ive disoreinted at least one dog with 1000 lumens and someone I know who is a cop occasionally reports tbe same with dogs when he us entering yards. But its not something I would remoately rely on.


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## Fireclaw18 (Jan 14, 2019)

kelmo said:


> I posted this in another thread a loooong time ago. I was out walking one summer night with the Wife and I had a 9P with a turbohead and MN16 LA. 200 focused lumens. This dog sees me and makes a bee line at me in a full run. I shine my beam in his eyes all the way in. The first thing he does is lick my flashlight then does the happy dog dance around me. It was a lab and I thought he was going to break my leg with his wagging tail. The moral of the story is lights unless backed up with superior firepower do not work!


Actually it sounds like it was a good thing you weren't armed with superior firepower during that encounter. You might have killed someone's friendly pooch!


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## kelmo (Jan 14, 2019)

Fireclaw18 said:


> Actually it sounds like it was a good thing you weren't armed with superior firepower during that encounter. You might have killed someone's friendly pooch!



Nah, he did not display an aggressive attack profile on approach. It was more of a bounding gait!


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## kelmo (Jan 14, 2019)

vadimax said:


> For bears you need this sort of a flashlight:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice flashlight! I love the 180 grain accessories!


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## bougti (Jan 18, 2019)

You get a handout as you pay the entrance fee, and it contains language to alert visitors to the fact that the wildlife is....wild. Too many visitors ignore this information and get their guidance by watching TV shows about animals.


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## wweiss (Jan 20, 2019)

Exactly. A loud air horn - and bear spray as a backup. The Rangers in Yellowstone say a pistol is useless...


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## Berneck1 (Jan 20, 2019)

None of my lights seem to affect my dog. She runs around like nothing is affecting her. I wouldn’t rely on a light to scare an aggressive animal away, and forget about disorienting it.... and forget about disorienting an aggressive person for that matter.


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## jorn (Jan 20, 2019)

It's not lumen that blinds. High lux does. It's only the light that enters the eye that will blind, so a concentrated beam with high lux, would be better than a half million lumen floodlight with less lux.
Blinded the neighbor cat. That did not work out well for my cat... They normally argue, and hiss at each other, but don't fight, ever. I heard the noice outside, took a thrower, and blinded the neighbor cat. It froze, the next time my cat hissed, all hell broke loose. blinded cat goes crazy, my much smaller cat got fu..ed up. And i think blinding that cat triggered it into self defense modus.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 20, 2019)

I'm sorry, jorn. I love my kitty and I'm sure you love yours too. However, I had to laugh out loud while reading your account. :laughing: I truly hope your little kitty is doing better real soon. :laughing: I'll stop now. :laughing:

~ Cg


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## jorn (Jan 20, 2019)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I'm sorry, jorn. I love my kitty and I'm sure you love yours too. However, I had to laugh out loud while reading your account. :laughing: I truly hope your little kitty is doing better real soon. :laughing: I'll stop now. :laughing:
> 
> ~ Cg


She is fine now, happened a year ago. Now i just let them hiss at each other, at least they don't fight blindly :laughing:


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