# "Introducing "Draco" [Accepting Deposit].



## modamag

Introducing Draco - The "innie winnie little" light that breath out fire.
... well at least the thought :nana:
















Image scale are:
2.92:1 on 800:600 resolution monitor
2.29:1 on 1024:768 resolution monitor
1.82:1 on 1280:1024 resolution monitor
1.44:1 on 1600:1200 resolution monitor

This project has been on-again, off-again since my last birthday. There are so many beautiful and bright limited production LEDs light out there but none of them are quite small enough. The one that I want is ... well unobtainium.

So here it is month after month after month and still nothing small enough for my ever growing bulk of a keychain. (which includes 3x cars, 2x houses, and a bunch of bedrooms.)

The CAD designs have been designed and re-designed as material sourcing evolved. Right now it's sitting on rev #5. The project is far from complete, but as of right now I'm running low on steam and inspiration  Hopefully this post will generate some energy and propell the project towards completion!

*=== Light Specification ===*
*Light Body:* Titanium 6AL-4V | Aluminum AA6061
*Thermal Management:* Integrated E-Can & LED base
*Len:* Optical Grade Saphire
*Reflector:* Custom 11mm reflector (McR-11)
*Light Source:* Premium [email protected]@[email protected] emitter
*Power Source:* 10280 Li-Ion
*Electronic converter:*
· [1]Constant Current Regulation (Hi/Lo)
· [2]PWM Control (Low/Usr/Burst)
*Dimension:*
· 43mm L x 13mm OD * Non Lanyard version (not available!)
· 47mm L x 13mm OD * Lanyard version
· 56mm L x 21mm max OD * Turbo Head
*Weight: *
· ~ 12 grams (0.424 oz) * Titanium version
· ~ 7 grams (0.246 oz) * Aluminum version
*Runtime: *
· ~ burst setting = 15 minutes
· ~ low setting (40mA) = 4.0 hours
*Miscellaneous:*
· Water proof, custom o-ring protection at all junctions
*Possible Options:*
· 21mm Turbo Head utilizing McR-18 & 2mm Saphire Lens
· Mineral glass len (suggested by idleprocess)
· Premium LuxIII [email protected]@
· TiN/TiCN coating (suggested by Icebreak)

*=== Pricing ===* 
=== Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===
Draco (complete light) ... $130
Turbo head... $50
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... <$30

=== Titanium 6AL-4V (TiN / TiCN coating) ===
Draco (complete light) ... $240
Turbo head... $100
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... <$80

*=== Goals ===*
Here are some goals that I had for making this light.
· Smallest and shortest production light series
· Usable amount of brightness with intended illumination range of < 8' (2.5 meters) for the standard head.
· Durability, keychains are dropped, dip, scratch, and thrown everywhere so will the poor light so it need to be able to stand the harsh physical and chemical abuse.
· Affordability, yes we can make a "perfect" EDC but if it's only for Bill Gates then it's useless. EDC is for "Every dude carries".
· Finally most important of all (to me) ... sex appeal ... if the light does not look nice it should be at your side.


*=== FAQ ===*
_Why Saphire Lens?_
- Saphire is the 2nd hardest (behind diamond) natural substance so scratch resistance. Thermally & chemically resistance.

_Why don't you specify the full bin code?_
- Currently I'm targeting TY0H but if in 3 months better stuff such as UY0H might be available then it'll change. :naughty:

_What's the difference between S-bin Luxeon I and U-bin Luxeon III?_ 
- LuxI will generally be noticibly brighter than the LuxIII
- LuxI will also maintain a closer tint to the spec due to the drive level.
- LuxIII will be "underdriven" so it's lifespan will be better.
- LuxIII also have better thermal management which is important in such a small light.

_Why bother with TiN or TiCN coating while titanium is already hard and corrosion resistant?_
- Although Ti have great corrosion resistance but when it comes to halides (chlorides and fluorides) it doesn't do so well. I want this to go thru a standard wash/dry cycle w/o any problem.
- Titanium on titanium threads tend to gall (stick) so the coating will make it better.
- Galvanic corrosion due to Ti / Cu junction (negative contact) will be reduced.
- Electrical conductivity significantly increased from 40 m?·cm -> 25 µ?·cm
- TiN got a beautiful gold color while TiCN is greyish for the camouflage military look.
- It all boils down to PERSONAL COLOR PREFERENCE because these coating are well OVER-DESIGNED for flashlight usage.

_How do you estimate the runtime number?_ 
Estimated runtime is calculated as follows.
Battery capacity = 3.7V * 180mA = 666 mWh
J-Vf Power Consumption = 3.1V * 40mA = 124 mWh
H-Vf Power Consumption = 3.0V * 40mA = 120 mWh
Converter efficiency ~90-95% so let's take 90% worse case scenario.

J-Vf runtime = ( 666 / 124 ) * 0.9 (efficiency) * 60 (converts to minutes) = 290 minutes
H-Vf runtime = ( 666 / 120 ) * 0.9 (efficiency) * 60 (converts to minutes) = 300 minutes


With all that said, I'm up for any suggestions and recommendations. :thanks:

Please post your interest on this thread just in case this comes to fruition.
If you want a specific serial number indicate that too just in case serial engraving occurs.


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*=== Production Status ===*
Light body Aluminum AA6061 - completed
Ti AAA Extension & Turbo Head - completed
Electro & Hand Polishing - completed
Chrome plating - completed
Laser Engraving - completed

Light body Titanium 6AL-4V - received
Ti AAA Extension & Turbo Head - completed
Electro & Hand Polishing - completed
TiN & TiCN coating - completed
Laser Engraving - received

Saphire Lens - received
McR-11 Reflector - received
Luxeon emitters - received
Electronic converters - received
Custom Orings - received

*=== Update Post ===*
1. CroMagnet teaser prototype pics 1, 2, 3, 4
2. Beam shots @ 3', 6', 14'
3. Pre-Production tuning
4. Prelimimary Pricing Schedule Released
5. Finalized Pricing Schedule Released
6. Submersible, hi/low beam shot
7. Aluminum Chrome plating announcement
8. Deposit/Payment thread.


----------



## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Nothing much to add just yet, but you have my interest in one. I like the turbo head feature. Adds some versatility to the light. I'll take #1 or #5 serial numbers if it goes into production  .

:goodjob: 

-DF

Oh, and just to add my interest lies in Ti w/turbo head.


----------



## flashlight

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I just looked at my ruler & dang that's going to be small if it ever comes to be. *Subscribed*  Dibs on #3 or #8.

My choice would be Ti since it's so small material cost hopefully won't be too high.  This would be a twisty right? Any chance of a protected clicky tailcap option?

EDIT - Please change mine to Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) Complete light #3.


----------



## Radio

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

In

#7 if we get to pick


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*List moved to Payment thread. Please see my sigline for link.*

*Titanium Reference pics*





*List moved to Payment thread. Please see my sigline for link.*


----------



## tdurand

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

My suggestion is to start a sales thread as soon as possible. I'm in.


----------



## WAVE_PARTICLE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

IN.


----------



## malcontent

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Ti + Every Dude Carries has my interest.


----------



## trivergata

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'd be in too!

Josh


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm "in" for a Ti any number under 10....or low number if under 10 is not possible.  


Karl


----------



## Amorphous

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

PM sent.


----------



## jefft

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

In, of course!!


----------



## russtang

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I am in for at least one light. Maybe one of each. Next lowest ##available.

The ability to use some type of primary batt. would be a big plus for me also.


----------



## criollo

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Yes, I am in !


----------



## Bogus1

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I would be interested if you can machine the Ti so it's light enough for a key chain.


----------



## PhotonFanatic

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Count me in, please. Ti, no Turbo.


----------



## bwaites

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

In, number 13, and depending on price, 14, 19, 20, 22, 24, all in aluminum.

Also number 13 in Ti!

Bill


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Well, in addition to my request for a Ti version, I'd like two others, these in Al... !!

karlthev


----------



## jhung

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Count me in. One Ti and one Al.


----------



## AuroraLite

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Modamag,

Every dude carry 

I am in for at least one, if not one of each! No. 18 if it is not taken before me. :thumbsup:


----------



## kevindick

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'll take one in Ti.


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm in for Serial number 5, maybe more as things firm up. Ti/Alum depend on cost, two heads though.

Cliff


----------



## andrewwynn

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Beautiful. I like it a lot.. did i miss if it is mutli-level? 

-awr


----------



## Morelite

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm in
Ti with the turbo head, serial number doesn't matter to me


----------



## localguy808

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

sweet! geez jonathan i thought you were slowly making your way out of the modding industry? im sure glad your not... keep the ideas coming


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## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Lordy, not ANOTHER post!!! Yeah....jeez....turbo heads all around on my wishes if you please!!  


karlthev


----------



## aosty

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm in depending on price.


----------



## XFlash

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hey its a flashlight isn't it.
Put me down for one #*.
Thanks


----------



## ddaadd

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Yup, gimme 1, any #, 

I would specify Ti or Aluminum when costs are estimated.....

Very Cool......


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Looks like we needs a list keeper. Thanks for the shot Jonathan! (I'll shoot a PM off to Codeman for some advice)






*Please see interest list on Post #6*​


----------



## bwaites

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Does ANYONE have any doubts that if you build a GOOD CR2 sized light that it would sell like crazy?

I mean Larrylights are unobtanium, and yet they STILL are the standard!

Titanium only interests me because it is so tough, but for EDC and lots of use, aluminum or aluminum-bronze make lots more sense!

Bill


----------



## Darkstar

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Very nice, I'm nterested in Al & or maybe Ti depending on price.


----------



## rscanady

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*


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## Dogliness

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I am in for one. Will specify Ti or Al, and turbo option, when prices are known.


----------



## gregw

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Dibs on #88.. Ti of course..


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm interested in one, maybe even one of each depending upon more info. #10, 11 or 12.

Steve


----------



## idleprocess

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



modamag said:


> *=== FAQ ===*
> _Why Saphire Lens?_ Saphire is the 2nd hardest (behind diamond) natural substance so scratch resistance. Thermally & chemically resistance.
> 
> [...]
> 
> With all that said, I'm up for any suggestions and recommendations. :thanks:



Saphire has good thermal and mechanical characteristics, but I seem to recall that its light transmission is below polycarbonate. you might look into mineral glass - inexpensive, durable, has good optical characteristics, and thanks to the watch industry is readily available in a number of convenient sizes for smaller diameters.

_EDIT_ - nitpicking aside, it looks interesting!


----------



## tvodrd

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Put me down for an aluminum one!

Many moons ago, modamag PM'd me re my veiled, but publicly-expressed interest in doing a light based on the Li 14270 cell. He had similar aspirations for one he was going to call the "Draco.". I told him I had over 100 cells, and had ordered reflectors from you-know-who and AR-coated windows for them. I have that stuff now, and DD boards from Wayne, and a bunch of TWOJs. He changed course as a result! :bow: If he'd done it, they would probably be here now! I was/am distracted by a design for JSB, and even more so by a couple tank lights! I'll get to them eventually. 

I sincerely hope that didn't break a confidence.

Larry


----------



## HenryE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Size matters, so I'm definitely interested in everything.
This will almost certainly become brilliant jewelry with a K2, so it should be quite nice.


----------



## Aaron1100us

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm interested depending on price


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*Interest List updated to this point*





*Please see Post #6*​


----------



## nemul

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

holy crap! it's goin be 1.7in?
i'll like one if not TOO much!


----------



## TENMMIKE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*IN.* NUMBER 50, OR 100 IF FIFTY IS TAKEN .EDIT .I SEE that 50 is still available.


----------



## Blindspot

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'll take #100.


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## FlashMike

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Count me as interested also. Al or Ti, or... Both!
Obviously need the details on price
Preference would be #17, or maybe #57.


----------



## gregw

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Any idea on the estimated price? How about using a LuxI SXOH instead of a LuxIII? Considering that the 10280 is only 180mah, I doubt very much it can supply any current above 400 or 500mah anyway...


----------



## bl4kkat

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

hey im interested
hook it up with #84


----------



## lasercrazy

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'll take 40 or 45. Any idea as to pricing?


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Looks like I'm 49 and 51...... cool !

frisco


----------



## TENMMIKE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

iv already got 50


frisco said:


> I'm in for 50 and 51
> 
> frisco


----------



## Datasaurusrex

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Interested.

#45 AL w/ turbo head (if the turbo head is interchangeable with regular head)


----------



## Dawg

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I would be interested in #52. Aluminum, or Ti depending on $$


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*Interest List updated to this point*




*Please see Post #6*​


----------



## andrewwynn

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

cromag.. put me on the list too :-D.. modamag.. i've been wanting to use the 10280 and make a 'pico'.. of course i'd not be able to get to that 'til the nano is done.. I love the complete version incl. sapphire crystal, etc.. nice design, let's help make it a reality! 

-awr


----------



## Lunarmodule

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Outstanding design! I am continually amazed with the creativity, ingenuity, and resourcefulness of the CPF community. Its just incredibly cool to have all this talent and imagination grouped inside our community. Ive been carrying McGizmo's 27LT with me last few days and had dozens of people inquire about "where do ya get one?"... and it drew attention to the fact that it exists within the boundaries of those who are members here, the outside world has no idea they exist. 

I am interested in two of these, serial #42 and 77. Ti and turbo heads, the whole enchilada. If I cant get #42 then #44 or #55. Great work Jonathan, cant wait to see this one roll out!

I need some clarification, if the Turbo head is a seperate add-on option or a fixed configuration. If it is fixed, then I'd take one turbo head one and one without.


----------



## Wong

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm interested #95  depending on price


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## PeterB

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please add me to the list (#68 if possible)


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## ICUDoc

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#67 for me please!!!!


----------



## flex76italy

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hi Jonathan, put me for #76, depending on price.

:goodjob:


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Would you please investigate/consider TiCN?

In for 1 Draco Ti.

In for 1 NLS green.


----------



## nekomane

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

99 if it's not taken yet. Ti and Turbo Head of course!
All depends on price though :sigh:


----------



## marcspar

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm in for the next lowest available number in ti - price dependent.....

Thanks,

Marc


----------



## goldserve

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

SXOH does seem to be the perfect match with this light.

put me down for TI 99.

Cheers!


----------



## bwaites

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

So there you go, Jonathan, 50 orders first day!

Bill


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## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



Icebreak said:


> Would you please investigate/consider TiCN?
> 
> In for 1 Draco Ti.
> 
> In for 1 NLS green.


 
I agree the TiCN would be great.

Cliff


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Guys thanks for the warm reception.

The ball have started rolling since the original post. Too much momentum now all we can do is let it takes it's course.
I will be meeting with my mentor (machinist) and get an estimated cost within the week.

*flashlight: *this is a twisty light. The tailcap clicky switch option will add at least 12mm to the design, which is not possible given the design requirement.
*CroMagnet: *Thank you for taking the initiative of doing the list.
*tdurand: *The sales thread will commence once everything lines up right. I do not want prepayment until the very end. $$$ = responsibility = trouble
*Bogus1: *You're funny my friend, Ti version is < 12 grams (0.424 oz) where Aluminum version is 1.7x less.
*andrewwynn: *Currently I'm shooting for Hi/Low constant current or Low/Usr/Burst with PWM.
*localguy808: *Learning CNC wasn't enough to keep me occupy  It's still raining here in the Bay Area so the race circuit is stil closed (well restricted to carpet  )
*bwaites: *Larry's design are the defacto standard because they were designed properly from the grounds up with a touch of anality to it.
*idleprocess: *Thank you for the suggestion. I will look into providing this as an option. The reason why I bypass this is because, polycarbonate scratch and as for mineral glass ... well take a look below, it's the second one that crack, I'm freaking [email protected]#. I have included in the Draco design a dual oring shock isolation (borrowed from McGizmo's design). Hopefully that reduce the energy to the lens when keychains are dropped (thrown).





*tvodrd: *Thank you for your blessing. Our previous conversation didn't really break any confidence. You know me, I just don't like duplicated projects in CPF, it's a waste of valuable resources. After a one month part-timing CPF, I found that I must complete this lingering project otherwise ... I'm just not too happy 
*gregw: *I'll look into that (SXOH). One of the reason why I prefer LuxIII is the thermal properties vs LuxI.
*Datasaurusrex & Lunarmodule: *Turbo head is an add-on option (interchangable).
*Icebreak *I'll look into TiCN. I believe TiN have a much better estetic bright gold look while TiCN got the greyish / bronze look similar to my cobalt bits. As for NLS green, can't help you there, you need to build up your karma for that one.


----------



## M_R

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I just stumbled on this thread. Great concept. Please put me down for one of each Al & Ti and I'll likely get one Turbo head.

Cheers,

Matthew


----------



## jdriller

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please put me on the list, Ti if priced right. #63


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## dduane

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

WoooHaaa! You said it would be thin and tiny. I like the ribbing that will add rigidity. Will there be any strenthening along the lenghth? Glad to see that little piece of metal you had in your pocket turned into a gem. Count me in for #58. Can we see more at the next get together? When's the next one?...
Congrats, Duane


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



modamag said:


> As for NLS green, can't help you there, you need to build up your karma for that one.


 Ah. Good advice. I'm on it. THX.

BOT: The Draco's specs are appealing but it's the dude building it that sinches the deal. Good luck and have fun.


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## darmawaa

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

44mm L x 13mm OD * Non Lanyard version
#73


----------



## Fusion

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Put me down for #68 please....


----------



## underdust

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm in for #74 depending on the price.


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## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*Interest List updated to this point*





*Please see Post #6*​


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Holy poop - go camping for the weekend and all hell breaks loose. I didn't have time to read the whole thread, but, If modamag's making it, I want one.

Put me down for #55 aluminum, or any other number that's available.

I hope that's all I have to do to get on the list because I'll be working 18 hr days till Friday and probably will only have limited time to check in on what's going on.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



JimH said:


> Holy poop - go camping for the weekend and all hell breaks loose. I didn't have time to read the whole thread, but, If modamag's making it, I want one.
> 
> Put me down for #55 aluminum.
> 
> I hope that's all I have to do to get on the list because I'll be working 18 hr days till Friday and probably will only have limited time to check in on what's going on.


Holy Crap I've been calling U  I Shudda just put ya down for one  Welcome Back.


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## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



CroMAGnet said:


> Holy Crap I've been calling U  I Shudda just put ya down for one


Thanks's for the thought, Tony. And, yes, you shoulda put me down for one. I think I made it on the list, but if I didn't, I'll just come over to your house and fire off 10 or 20 shotgun blasts. When you come out to investigate, I'll blind you with 20,000 or 30,000 lumens, then sneak in and steel yours .


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## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Let's do lunch next week with duane, jonathan and more next week when you get some time. What's good for you? I'll start a new thread...


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## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



CroMAGnet said:


> Let's do lunch next week with duane, jonathan and more next week when you get some time. What's good for you? I'll start a new thread...



Funny you should ask. While you were making this post, I was sending you a PM about the same thing.


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## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I don't even really know what I just signed up for!!!!! I just saw some heavy hitters getting involved....... so I signed up for 2 !!!!!!

frisco


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## goldserve

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

If there is a list, I'd like to change to Ti with and without turbo head with NO serial.

Thanks!


----------



## HenryE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



frisco said:


> I don't even really know what I just signed up for!!!!! I just saw some heavy hitters getting involved....... so I signed up for 2 !!!!!!
> 
> frisco





A true flashoholic! 
There's a special wing at the Betty Ford Center for people like us. The entry is brightly lit, but you leave through a dark exit.


----------



## quantile

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

13mm OD?! 
Sounds to good to pass up, I'm in. Number 71 please (Ti with normal head). 

Thanks.


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## nekomane

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

goldserve, If *99* is a special number for you, you can have it. I just picked from the available numbers. 
*75* instead is fine with me.
Just hate to add to CroMAGnet's efforts in keeping the list, :goodjob: BTW!
Let's not forget that modamag has not guaranteed any S/N, nor the realization of this whole project 
(though it's exciting to imagine).

*1 question please*... I requested a Ti turbohead but this includes an ordinary Ti head as well, right?


----------



## goldserve

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

nekomane, so generous! I'll take your offer. I have a exolion with 99 as well so i'd like to keep the trend.

Cormagnet, can you please do the swap? Thanks!

I'd like to know about the std head and turbo head option as well.


----------



## Bogus1

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I didn't notice the Al option and would add that to my interest. I'd go for both heads on my lights. I'd rather see no numbering. I have yet to see it make a light perform and it just seems to me a distraction.


----------



## schiesz

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm interested in #85 in Ti if the price is right.

schiesz


----------



## scrappy

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'll take 90 and 91 - one ti one al, all the options for both.

Thanks
Rich


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## Lurveleven

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#66 Ti

Sigbjoern


----------



## luxlunatic

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm in, I will take spot #72 please.


----------



## ZeissOEM2

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

61 Ti


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



nekomane said:


> Just hate to add to CroMAGnet's efforts in keeping the list, :goodjob: BTW!
> Let's not forget that modamag has not guaranteed any S/N, nor the realization of this whole project
> (though it's exciting to imagine).













*Interest List updated to this point*




*Please see Post #6*​


----------



## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMAGnet, good job keeping up the list. Maybe it will help this vapor materialize :naughty: 

Do you think you could update my spot to reflect my Ti+TurboHead interest  

-DF


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



DFiorentino said:


> CroMAGnet, good job keeping up the list. Maybe it will help this vapor materialize :naughty:
> 
> Do you think you could update my spot to reflect my Ti+TurboHead interest
> 
> -DF


Done! You lucky #1

Vaporware??





ummm... I'd like to ask about colors? Any thoughts about HA3 colors on these?


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Thanks!

:nana: 
-DF


----------



## thesurefire

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm in for #70 with the turbo head, and maybe Ti, all depending on the final cost.


----------



## Uriah

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I would be interested in #79!!!


----------



## FRANKVZ

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm interested in one!


----------



## benh

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm interested, any number will do.


----------



## Carpe Diem

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I`m in for one. 

Any serial number will do, and I`d prefer Ti. (I`d also like an extra turbo head.)

Thanks!


----------



## voodoogreg

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Thanks for the PM cromagnet, yes, put me in for one (1). I don't care which Metal you use ali is fine, (be honest i don't get the "Ti" thing on this board, a lot of -'s for what it add's. and yes I know metals)
the smaller the better! VDG


----------



## nrk

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Interested in #81 (ti/both heads)

;-nrk


----------



## jeffb

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Will consider, based on price and terms.

Thanks,

jeffb


----------



## tdurand

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMAGnet-
I'm in for two Ti's: w/andw/out Turbo

Thanks
T


----------



## Monolith

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Interested based on price. Would like both heads. Al, no serial.


----------



## FirstDsent

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

If "affordable", I'd like an Al, with both heads. Any number. My first entirely custom light! Woohoo!

Thank you, 
Bernie


----------



## alauda

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Could you put me down for a Ti w/Turbo. Not worried which number. Looking good


----------



## MY

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Put me down for #60 in Ti please.

Regards.


----------



## Regentag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Two for me, please - #89 and #97, both in Titanium, standard heads with (2) Turboheads "on the side".  

Cheers,


----------



## milkyspit

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Price will be an issue for me but assuming I can afford it, I'm in! 

Preference-wise, I'd go Ti if in my price range, Al otherwise... probably go for the turbo head with that McR18 reflector.


----------



## TSWrench

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Jonathan,

Please put me down for a ti with turbohead...any ol' number.

Thanks!


----------



## Elakazam

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

One ti and one extra turbo-head for me please!


----------



## chasm22

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please add me to the list. I'm leaning towards a Ti model with each type of head.


Regards,

Chuck
CPF=chasm22


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

..... Jeez, i can`t believe i havn`t stumbled upon this before now..
so count me in !!!! any serial no will do .....


----------



## diggdug13

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

As Milky said.


Highly dependant on the price. but I'd like #22 (if not taken yet) in Ti (if w/i my price range) and turbo head.


doug


----------



## dbedit

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I want one in Ti! Please add me to post 6. Oh Please please make it be able to stand on end in candle mode, it looks like it will but just have to ask.


----------



## Red_Dot

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hi All
I'm in - hopefully I can afford it when pricing has been worked out, but for now, pls put me down for No.65 (Alu).

thanks


----------



## GhostReaction

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I m interested for Al with extra turbo. #80 
extra ketchup and lettuce please.


----------



## [email protected] Messenger

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

how about cerafuse coating? more cost effective than TiN and possibly more wear resistant, check it out at my thread, results are on the way!! Could also have a nice white finish too, and can double as a knife sharpener:lolsign: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/114722


----------



## Luff

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Just in case this turns out to be affordable, make mine in Ti, please. SN's not critical, but I'd like to be on the list.


----------



## Luff

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Whoops. First-ever double-post due to database error!


----------



## christrose

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Pleas add me on the list for Ti. #62 if available.


----------



## Roger11

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I am in. Please add me to the list. Aluminum, lanyard.
-thanks


----------



## ledaholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'll be in for 1, any #.

Bob


----------



## cgpeanut

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Count me in please! next available slot.

--Roberto


----------



## Datasaurusrex

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

dang hard to resist. I'll take 79 in Ti too (price dependant), no turbo.

Any idea about the projected runtime and lumen output?


----------



## Barefootone

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm very interested, but as other's have said price dependent. I'd like the Lanyard version in Ti, no turbo #59 if available. Will the 6 black bands on the CAD drawing be Knurled and the spaces in between recessed?






I'll be watching and



.
Good luck,
Jeff


----------



## milkyspit

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Dangit Mag, where is it? Checked the mailbox today but no tiny lights in there!

:laughing:

I really like the styling of that tailcap.


----------



## lildave

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

same as ddaadd


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*Interest List updated to this point*




*Please see Post #6*​
Wish I had some answers for you but I have heard we'll be getting pics before the weekend!! Jonathan ok'd another 50 slots to the list. Maybe that's a good sign. Pro'ly is.


----------



## goldserve

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Greating job in tracking everything in the list! Cheers!


----------



## ZeissOEM2

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

It will be easier for CroMagnet to update the list if everyone choose a number# I think .


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Thanks for the kundos Goldserve! And thanks to everyone for the nice PM's too 

I just added up some numbers and it looks like the interest in the Ti version is picking up.

With 109 interested slots

43 show interest in Ti
26 want the Turbo head
and the other 66 must want Al


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



ZeissOEM2 said:


> It will be easier for CroMagnet to update the list if everyone choose a number# I think .


No worries right now anyway. It's not too bad to do at all. If we get up and run-ing I'll transfer the data to an Excel spreadsheet and post a pic update with all the specific details of orders and payments etc.


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I just got couple prototypes parts in today. The most important part ... yes the reflector from master McGizmo :bow: have arrived safely. I didn't expect it to come so soon.

The prototype body has also been completed late today. Just as an FYI it took 5 lathe operations just to make the internal part the way I wanted it. Drill / Drill / Bore / Drill / Special Finish Bore, thank goodness it’s repeatable.

Next phase is the converter fit test and exterior plating. This is the part where yours truly have no control over.

Many of you are currently wondering about the price. As I promised before I will try to make this as affordable as possible. However, I will not cut cost to compromise quality. Current estimate it will be cheaper than any semi-production light with similar caliber.


----------



## idleprocess

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

OK, I'm interested. #149 if I have to express a S/N preference, but I can't really commit.


----------



## vcal

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

OK-put me down for one in aluminum-especially if the AAA extra body becomes offered.

-No S/N preference, might be interested also in the Turbo-head option as well. 

Hope this light turns out to be affordable...


----------



## milkyspit

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Looks like scrappy is down for #91... and/or maybe somebody has already claimed that number?

If these things will be serial numbered and scrappy or whoever else were willing out of the goodness of their hearts, I'd be OVERJOYED to have #91... dating myself here, but that's my class year from college!

Second choice would be #97... wedding anniversary!

Third choice would be #38... father's birth year, very special to me.

Yes, I'm an old milkyspit. :sigh:

Young in spirit though!


----------



## christrose

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMagnet,
Thanks for keeping the interest list.
Please correct my place to (Ti) at the next update. See post #123.

christrose


----------



## jsr

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Ooh, why didn't I look at this post sooner???

I'm in depending on price. With my upcoming wedding, price is a major issue. I'd be interested in the Aluminum version.
Question - What adds the additional 3mm length in the "lanyard version"? I'd assume the "non-lanyard version" would still have a hole to put on a keychain...otherwise, it wouldn't make a very good keychain light.

datasaurusrex - Just wondering if you'd be willing, but if you don't mind, would you give up #107? That's my wedding date. If not, that's ok. It doesn't hurt to ask.


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Tony,

You can add turbo head to mine, and I may be interested in Ti depending on price.


----------



## JohnnyDeep

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm interested in one Ti + Turbo head.
#110?
Thanks,
Jan


----------



## Datasaurusrex

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



jsr said:


> datasaurusrex - Just wondering if you'd be willing, but if you don't mind, would you give up #107? That's my wedding date. If not, that's ok. It doesn't hurt to ask.



NP, put me down for 113 instead  107 was a random number, I was actually shooting for 89 but was too late.


----------



## NoFair

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Depending on price I'd be very interested in #123 in either Al or Ti. Lanyard version please.

Tritium would be awsome

PS! I'd prefer TW0H over TY0H or TX0, but any of these tints are fine really..

Keep up the good work!


----------



## jsr

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



Datasaurusrex said:


> NP, put me down for 113 instead  107 was a random number, I was actually shooting for 89 but was too late.


 
Thanks Data! I hope I can afford one of these later (or that the misses will even allow me). I'm surprised she said yes to a Fenix P1 after my just recently acquiring a Jet1. I'm looking forward to the pricing info.


----------



## Radio

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hmmm....looks like we gotta ask for the Turbo, Put me in for Turbo and question of Ti depending on price, BTW I'm already #7


----------



## Blindspot

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I got spot number 100. Do I win the door prize?  

Please upgrade me to Ti and Turbo! :rock:


----------



## srue

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm interested - Aluminum, lanyard, non-turbo

Still wondering about price, brightness, flood/spot.

I'm also wondering about battery availability and how they will be charged.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hey! We just had a CPF lunch with CHC, HarryN, LowBat, JimH, ModaMag and CromagNet. We had a chance to touch the body prototype and E/Can which is really small. How small is it? Well, it's smaller than an Arc AAA, smaller than a TnC KeyLux N, smaller than all of those and then some! We had just enough battery power in my camera to get a few good pictures of the prototype #5 which still will possible have a different knurling and still needs the head which will add about 12mm to the total completed length to the finished product.

Here's a picture of the Draco #5 and #4 prototypes along with a Coke can, AAA and AA batteries and few other lights to compare the size. Notice HarryN's Breeze in the background. Plenty of lumens coming out of that side by side light! There's also a chrome Jil DD, TnC KEYLUX N, Arc AAA CPF Edition and a small custom originaly made by Dspec if I have that right. Oh and there's the Draco powerplant, the 10280 LiON battery in blue 

*Enjoy!*




​


----------



## jsr

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I can't tell which ones the prototypes?...sorry...am I just blind?


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*I'm just messin' with ya's!






Check out the shadows behind the two lights in the center... Or how about the reflection in the Coke can??





Yup! it's that small.*


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

............ SXOH ?????


LEDcandle said:


> There is indication that a Lux I S-bin at 350 ma is brighter and more efficient than even a T-bin Lux III driven at same current. It will take at least a U-bin Lux III to beat the Lux I at that drive current.
> 
> McGizmo's test seems to show that the Lux I s-bin (well at least the one he had) beat the T-bin Lux III at all levels of drive currents even!


................... $0.02


----------



## thesurefire

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Quick question: With the turbo head we will receive both the regular head and the turbo head correct?


----------



## TENMMIKE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

You can add turbo head to mine,this means we get both heads right? and probobly, all in Ti depending on price.i am number 50


----------



## ibcj

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Withdrawn.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



thesurefire said:


> Quick question: With the turbo head we will receive both the regular head and the turbo head correct?


*YES! That is correct. I had a chance to confirm this with ModaMag today at lunch.*

BTW the Turbo head will be awesome on this light. It will make it like some of the other larger high quality lights currently available but in a tiny package which you can make even smaller by switching the head back! 

*OK! Here is the same picture as before but from a slightly different angle.*


----------



## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

What, I STILL don't see it! :huh: 

:lolsign: 

Wow, that's teeny-weenie-super-tiny! Awesome.

-DF


----------



## malcontent

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I am guessing it is behing the two lights in the center, you can just barely see it. Of course, I could just be seeing things..


----------



## ibcj

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

..


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

As I see more, I want more. A turbohead? Why not? Add one to #35 please. Still undecided on Al or Ti or both.

Steve


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

OHMYGOD !! Is that sucker small, I had a hard time finding the two prototypes. Will it come with a revolutionary nostril carry scheme - that sucker would fit up your nose with room to spare.

Cliff


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



DFiorentino said:


> What, I STILL don't see it! :huh:
> 
> :lolsign:
> 
> Wow, that's teeny-weenie-super-tiny! Awesome.
> 
> -DF


Sure is DF! 

Here are a few more pics for you all 
*
Once again, a better view of the Breeze Prototype in the background too.











It just needs the head which adds only 12mm to the overall length.





In good company 




*
I think I'm going to have to upgrade to the Ti with Turbo on this special little wonder if we can get a limited run going!


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



Cliffnopus said:


> OHMYGOD !! Is that sucker small, I had a hard time finding the two prototypes. Will it come with a revolutionary nostril carry scheme - that sucker would fit up your nose with room to spare.
> 
> Cliff


----------



## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

That thing is going to have to go on my keyring. I'll loose it for sure if it's not tethered to something  .

-DF


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Yeah, really! Thank God I got my tri-focals on! Wow!


Karl


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Check this out. The prototype on the right has no Lanyard/keyring pod where the one on the left has and the one on the right has no threads on top to add the E/Can for where the LED sits (and where the head screws right over) The only missing part on the left one is the head which screws onto the E/Can (which is already screwed on) so it will add less than the difference in length between these two protos because it already has the keyring pod!! (Pod=thingamajig which looks similar in design to the Jil DD but different  )


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

frisco checkin in.... please update #49 and #51 with optional Turbo Heads. Maybe Ti depends on how this pans out.

Thanks, frisco


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

That's got to be one of the best teaser photo shoots of all time.


----------



## Barefootone

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Tony,
:thanks: for the pictures, they have made the Draco come to life for me and I'm sure others very cool indeed and :wow: is that sucker small. Although I'm  I can't wait for pricing.
Thanks again for the :kewlpics: ,
Jeff


----------



## gregw

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Thanks for the photos..  There's nothing more exciting than going from CAD drawing to first prototype.. :goodjob:

Pricing info please..


----------



## dbedit

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

ok i am sold put me down for an aluminium one to


----------



## malcontent

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I will need to add the turbo head option to my Ti #6.
This will be one sweet light.


----------



## russtang

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Add a turbo head to my list. 

One of each. (one Ti, One Al.)

This looks like one neat light in the making.


----------



## Darkstar

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Yo Cro, Love the "Silly Fly" gif. I would like to reserve both a Ti & Al, see spot #33. Also a Turbo head in Ti. 

Question: Can a light be too small or too bright?

Thanks


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Now that more info has come out, I'll change my "want" to :
1 "Draco" in Titanium with both heads.

Cliff


----------



## Lynxis

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please count me in on the List...

*** 1x Aluminum // Lanyard Version
with Standard Head (47mm x 13mm)
*** 1x Optional 21mm Turbo-Head
*** Prefer serial number #111
or #131 if #111 is not available
*** Prefer electronic-Converter 2
using PWM Control (Low/Usr/Burst)

--------------------
thanks!


----------



## MorpheusT1

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Count me in!


One Aluminum Version 
+ Turbo head.

Interested in Ti depending price.



Benny


----------



## lasercrazy

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'd like to add the turbo head to mine.


----------



## erinO919

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please count me in

for one Ti w/TurboHead
prefer #118

Thanks!


----------



## flashgreenie

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

interested in a Ti with an optional turbohead
#113 please


----------



## alauda

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Beautiful work...could you please add me in for a AL version (Non Turbo)


----------



## chasm22

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMAGnet, 

I would like to add to my original 'order'. Please put me down for 1 aluminum with turbo head in addition to my original request for 1 titanium w/turbo. 

Thanks,

chasm22


----------



## bl4kkat

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

not to sound hasty or anything i was just wondering about est. cost for all this...

depending on the prices i might wanna up mine to Ti and perhaps with a turbo head too...

kk thanx in advance

Hope it comes out soon tho


----------



## yaesumofo

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I am in. The works. 

Yaesumofo


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hi CroMag,

Could you please update #49 and #51 to (Ti?) with Turbo heads.

Thanks, frisco


----------



## fore

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please add me to the interest list. Would like a Ti w/turbo, No Serial # if possible and depending on cost.

**added**

Lanyard version!


----------



## Rookwood

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Though I'm a relative newbie to this site, I definitely know a good thing when I see it!

Please add me to your list for one Ti model with one of each head.

Thank You - this looks killer!:goodjob:

Chris


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*Glad you guys got a kick from those pictures LOL. The light is really tiny and should be very bright with a McGizmo custom made reflector to help point most of those photons in the right direction.


Thanks to all who posted their change requests with their serial number 
(so I didn't need to search) 
:nana:*



*Interest List updated to this point*





*Please see Post #6*​


----------



## jefft

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Add on turbo for #15, maybe Ti?


----------



## HenryE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm uncertain about extras until pricing, but for now add a turbo head and Ti to #37. I would also like the 500 lumen Z-bin*

Henry



*before anyone gangs up on this, there was only ONE available 8^)
.
.
.


----------



## dduane

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Tony, Update me to turbo, mineral and premium emitter. Thanks, Duane #58



CroMAGnet said:


> In That case I'll take #2 please  [edit: Dang! beaten to the punch on numero uno! ]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Draco Interest List*
> 1 DFiorentino (Ti w/Turbo)
> 2 CromagNet
> 3 flashlight (Ti)
> 4 tdurand
> 5 WAVE_PARTICLE
> 6 malcontent (w/turbo Ti)
> 7 Radio (w/turbo) (Ti?)
> 8 trivergata
> 9 karlthev (Ti w/Turbo)
> 10 karlthev w/Turbo
> 11 karlthev w/Turbo
> 12 Amorphous
> 13 bwaites
> 14 bwaites
> 15 jefft
> 16 russtang (w/turbo) Al?
> 17 criollo
> 18 Bogus1
> 19 bwaites
> 20  bwaites
> 21 PhotonFantic
> 22 bwaites
> 23 jhung
> 24 bwaites
> 25 jhung (Ti)
> 26 Cliffnopus (w/turbo Ti)
> 27 kevindick (Ti)
> 28 AuroraLite
> 29 Morelite (Ti w/Turbo)
> 30 aosty $?
> 31 XFlash
> 32 ddaadd (Ti?)
> 33 Darkstar (w/turbo Ti)
> 34 Dogliness (Ti?)
> 35 SteveStephens (w/turbo) (Ti?)
> 36 tvodrd
> 37 HenryE
> 38 Aaron1100us ($?)
> 39 kevindick (Ti)
> 40 lasercrazy (w/turbo)
> 41 nemul
> 42 Lunarmodule (Ti w/Turbo)
> 43 andrewwynn
> 44 Icebreak (Ti)
> 45 Datasaurusrex (w/turbo)
> 46 marcspar
> 47 M_R (Ti w/Turbo)
> 48 M_R
> 49 frisco (w/turbo) (Ti)
> 50 TENMMIKE
> 51 frisco (w/turbo) (Ti)
> 52 Dawg (Ti?)
> 53 Bogus1 (w/Turbo) prefer no SN
> 54 FRANKVZ
> 55 JimH (w/Turbo) (Ti?)
> 56 benh
> 57 FlashMike (Ti?)
> 58 dduane
> 59 Carpe Diem (Seize the Ti w/Turbo)
> 60 MY (Ti)
> 61 ZeissOEM2 (Ti)
> 62 voodoogreg
> 63 jdriller (Ti) $?
> 64 tdurand (Ti w/Turbo)
> 65 RED_DOT
> 66 Lurveleven (Ti)
> 67 ICUDoc
> 68 PeterB
> 69 Fusion
> 70 thesurefire (w/Turbo)
> 71 quantile (Ti)
> 72 luxlunatic
> 73 darmawaa (Non Lanyard??)
> 74 underlust $?
> 75 nekomane (Ti w/Turbo)
> 76 Flex76italy
> 77 Lunarmodule (Ti w/Turbo)
> 78 alauda (Ti w/Turbo)
> 79 Uriah
> 80 GhostReaction
> 81 nrk (ti w/Turbo)
> 82 jeffb $?
> 83 HEY HEY ITS HENDO
> 84 bl4kkat
> 85 schiesz (Ti) $?
> 86 tdurand (Ti)
> 87 digdug13 (Ti w/Tubo)
> 88 gregw (Ti)
> 89 Regentag (Ti w/Turbo)
> 90 scrappy (Ti W/Turbo)
> 91 scrappy (w/Turbo)
> 92 chasm22 (Ti w/Turbo)
> 93 Elkazam (Ti w/Turbo)
> 94 TSWrench (Ti w/Turbo)
> 95 Wong
> 96 Milkyspit $? (w/Turbo)
> 97 Regentag (Ti w/Turbo)
> 98 Monolith (w/Turbo - no serial)
> 99 goldserve (Ti w/Turbo) prefer no SN
> 100 Blindspot (w/turbo Ti)
> 
> With Modamag's OK we are able to add another 50 more!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 101 dbedit (Ti)
> 102 Luff (Ti) $?
> 103 christrose (Ti)
> 104 Roger11
> 105 ledaholic (me too!)
> 106 cgpeanut
> 107 jsr $?
> 108 Barefootone (Ti) $?
> 109 lildave (same as ddaadd)
> 110 JohnnyDeep (Ti w/turbo)
> 111 Milkyspit (hoping to trade for 91, 97 or 38)
> 112 srue
> 113 Datasaurusrex (Ti) $?
> 114 vcal
> 115 dbedit
> 116 Darkstar
> 117 MorpheousT1 (w/turbo)
> 118 Erin0919 (Ti w/turbo)
> 119 Flashgreenie (Ti w/turbo)
> 120 alauda
> 121 chasm22 (w/turbo)
> 122 Yaesumofo (Ti w/turbo)
> 123 NoFair (Ti?) $?
> 124 fore (Ti w/turbo) $?
> 125 Rookwood (Ti w/turbo)
> 126
> 127
> 128
> 129
> 130
> 131 Lynxis (w/turbo) pwm (L/usr/brst)
> 132
> 133
> 134
> 135
> 136
> 137
> 138
> 139
> 140
> 141
> 142
> 143
> 144
> 145
> 146
> 147
> 148
> 149 idleprocess
> 150


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Will do dduane 

Please don't post or quote the list as it makes the thread bulked out and could confuse some.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



HenryE said:


> I'm uncertain about extras until pricing, but for now add a turbo head and Ti to #37. I would also like the 500 lumen Z-bin*
> 
> Henry
> 
> 
> 
> *before anyone gangs up on this, there was only ONE available 8^)
> .
> .
> .


 Sorry Herny. Modamag said that SN#2 got that Zbin. It was addressed in a previous thread _on another forum._


----------



## aosty

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



aosty said:


> I'm in depending on price.



Cromaggy... please update my interest to ti, depending on price... thanks!


----------



## TENMMIKE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMAGnet please add me to the ti and turbo list ( initial ti and turbo request was post 155),thanks, i am number 50


----------



## russtang

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Mine should be Ti, plus turbo

and add an aluminum plus turbo.


----------



## Aaron1100us

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMAGnet, please update my interest to ti with turbo head, depending on price. Oh, any idea on when we will hear what prices will be? 

Forgot to add, I'm # 38 on the list.


Thanks


----------



## fore

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMAGnet, could you please put me in the #150 slot? Thanks for keeping the list together.

Can't wait to see how the proto turns out.


----------



## jar3ds

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

i'd be interested but i don't like the battery... at least from what i know they can't be charged in a DSD charger...

also its unprotected... eeek... 

besides that though i'd be really interested! something with a rcr2 or something but i don't think that'll fit the size package you require...

let me know about any updates though!


----------



## ledaholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I guess I need a turbohead too! Also interested in TI depending on cost.

Thanks, Bob


----------



## BugLightGeek

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please put me down for the Ti version w/Turbohead.
#150, please


----------



## HarryN

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Nice pictures Cromagnet - Even though I was there and held that light, it is very easy to hide it among the others on the table. So small and light it is like holding a car key.


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please add Turbohead to #66.
And sign me up for another one, #140 non-Ti, non-Turbo.

Sigbjoern


----------



## kit

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hello. I'm in for #150 - Aluminum w/ turbo head.


----------



## kit

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Oops, # 149 instead...someone #150 already taken, sorry.


----------



## kit

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Sorry, I keep getting those reserved numbers...hehehe. # 130 or any number available. THanks.


----------



## Frenchyled

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Add me to the list, final decision depending on the final price 

Frenchyled : premium bin and Titanium please  First available number is good for me


----------



## vortechs

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



jar3ds said:


> i'd be interested but i don't like the battery... at least from what i know they can't be charged in a DSD charger...
> 
> also its unprotected... eeek...
> 
> besides that though i'd be really interested! something with a rcr2 or something but i don't think that'll fit the size package you require...
> 
> let me know about any updates though!



The 10280 cell is the smallest available Li-Ion cell I know of (AAA-cell diameter and N-cell length). I'm sure it was selected in order to make the smallest possible light. The tiny size of the cell doesn't leave any room for a protection circuit but perhaps the circuitry in the light could be designed to protect the cell against overdischarge (low voltage). 

You would definitely want a low current charger like the Nano to use with the tiny ~180mAh 10280 cell.


----------



## Datasaurusrex

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



vortechs said:


> The 10280 cell is the smallest available Li-Ion cell I know of (AAA-cell diameter and N-cell length). I'm sure it was selected in order to make the smallest possible light. The tiny size of the cell doesn't leave any room for a protection circuit but perhaps the circuitry in the light could be designed to protect the cell against overdischarge (low voltage).
> 
> You would definitely want a low current charger like the Nano to use with the tiny ~180mAh 10280 cell.



Big ditto. I've use unprotected R123s, but only in lights and chargers with protection. That almost sounds like 'practice safe battery'


----------



## ZeissOEM2

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please add Turbohead to #61


----------



## AW

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

With the low energy content of only 180mAH, I bet the 10280 won't even 'pop' when shorted. See how the LiIon 2032 coin cell doesn't even have a vent and you 'll know.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Add me to list. Al with turbo option for sure. Will consider Ti, depending on price.

Bill


----------



## vortechs

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



AW said:


> With the low energy content of only 180mAH, I bet the 10280 won't even 'pop' when shorted. See how the LiIon 2032 coin cell doesn't even have a vent and you 'll know.



Is there is a Li-Ion 2032 coin cell available?? I'd be really interested how it works in a coin cell microlight. It would be interesting to have a rechargeable microlight. That sounds like a topic for another thread, however. I'll watch AW's battery thread for any info that appears there.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Need those G vf bins, particularly if circuit is constant current regulated.

Bill


----------



## k-2

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMAGnet, Modamag,

Please put me down for 1 Ti and 1 Al, both with turboheads. Serial # not important.






k-2


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*136 signed up with a lot of interest in Titanium and turbo head option. 

Thanks again to all who posted their change requests with their serial number! 
(so I didn't need to search) 
:nana:*

*Interest List updated to this point*




*Please see Post #6*​


----------



## Amorphous

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMagnet,

Please update my post with Ti + Turbo Head.

Thanks for doing the list.

Amorphous


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hey, I can't be bothered to read this entire thread just yet as the Sopranos' comes on in ~40mins and I gotta be somewhere. Let me just say that I'm interested and I'd like to claim #136! Oh, I almost forgot.. I wanted the larger head as well (turbo?) and a [email protected] would be nice if at all possible! I'll read this entire thread when I get home tonight.

I've now read a little bit more of the first thread and after reading it I'd like to revise what I'd like to order to be the following (pending final price of course):
* Aluminum light with a TurboHead on the side
* Constant current (Hi/Low)
* Ubin if at all possible (really depends on levels/runtimes)
* Whatever lens glass is the best in terms of transmittance

Off to read the rest of the posts... alright I've read most of the posts and saw some very cool pictures!! I've got just a few questions for those in the know (Jonthan or otherwise): 1) any idea as to drive levels? 2) what kind of capacity does the cell in question have? 3) any estimates as to runtimes?

Looks like a great project... can't wait! :goodjob: 

:thanks:


----------



## ouchmyfinger

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

hi there - i'll take 145. Ti please.

thanks muchly.


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Any ideas when a working proto will be lit up ???

frisco


----------



## Maro

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please add 135 Maro (w/turbo) $?


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*68 Aluminium Dracos, 24 with Turbo Heads
68 Titanium Dracos, 45 with Turbo Heads

136 Total Dracos with 69 trubo heads total so far. And we dont even have any beam shots yet!!

Thanks again to all who posted their change requests with their serial number!
(so I didn't need to search) 
:nana:*

*Interest List updated to this point*





*Please see Post #6*​
*frisco* I think you'll be excited with some news late this coming week.


----------



## Somy Nex

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

actually my apologies. some bills just popped up and i need to withdraw. sorry. =(

(you haven't added me to the list yet, but just in case you have already written it down somewhre adn just not updated yet, #148 is free again)


----------



## NoFair

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm sorry to say this, but after evaluation my lighting needs I'm pulling out of this. Spot #123 is regretfully open for anyone. I have to put some money in the HID dive-light fund or I'll never afford to buy one...

Sverre


----------



## Nomad

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'd like to ask, will there be protection built in so that the cell doesn't over discharge? With such a tiny li-ion cell and the fact that it's not protected it'd be REALLY important to make sure that it's protected, especially on a keychain light. 


Also, ANY ballpark idea as to what the prices might be like? I'm interested, but have to stay within a "starving" (ok, fat, but on ramen damnit!) student budget. If I do get in I'd love to get serial number 132 (my birthday, 13th of February) or 13. Love the Titanium finish, it'd fit well on a chain at that tiny size! Bling? LOL LOL LOL (Yeah fat white guy nerd coming in to teach his first elementary class wearing flashlight bling).



-Nomad (2AA minimag TL-3 hotwire, 1AAA solitaire w 30000 mc LED & A23 battery, ooohhh buddy)


----------



## fleshlite

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I would like to reserve # 138.
tks


----------



## dbrad

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please put me down as interested in a aluminum one with turbo head.


----------



## jefft

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMagnet, please add turbohead to #15. Thanks.


----------



## blahblahblah

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



NoFair said:


> I'm sorry to say this, but after evaluation my lighting needs I'm pulling out of this. Spot #123 is regretfully open for anyone. I have to put some money in the HID dive-light fund or I'll never afford to buy one...
> 
> Sverre



I'd like number 123.

Ti and turbo head


----------



## underdust

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to back out of this as well (I was #74). 

I'm buying my first house at the end of July, so I think I'll have to cut back on some spending. 

I apologize for any inconvenience.


----------



## jeffb

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Update, please

TI, Turbo Head

Thanks,

jeffb


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Will the aluminum bodies be hard anodized or bare Al? What color(s)? I would want HA natural or color. I'm still in for Al with turbo plus Ti w/turbo pending pricing. Hope I can afford both. CroMagnet, you said Saturday that some lights are almost ready. Will later ones be offered in other finishes than the first batch?

Thanks,
Steve


----------



## stevevh

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I am in for 1 in Titanium (TiCN) please with lanyard attachment. 

#142 if available otherwise any number is good.

Thanks!

Steve


----------



## bombelman

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#144 in Ti for Bombelman !
p.s. in which posts are the prices ?

Cheers !!


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Friends,

After many weeks of delay due to "real" work travel, I was able to scrounge enough time together to finalize the design.
Althought the actual length of the 10280 is 28.3mm, 0.3mm longer than spec, the overall length a whooping 0.3mm (see T/O story @ end of post), just a tad bit shorter than orginally projected  Yep tvodrd's disease is rubbing off on me 
I've dropped of the production prints at our shop ealier today and told them to fire off the machines at their earliest convenience (to save $$$).

Almost all the parts for this run have been ordered. One of the earliest piece that arrived was the saphire lens. I'm sure are glad that I choose saphire over mineral glass. I accidentally wipped them off my work bench several time (due to the small size and how clear the dam thing is). It fell from a height of 36" (~1m) and not a scratch, dent or chip.

The rev. 3 constant current driver and the uPIC have also arrived. It's amazing what our electronic wizards were able to do in such small package. Almost everything on these boards are surface mount. Even the connection to the LED are SMT. Do you know why? ... Yep you guess it to save couple um 

Below are couple beam shots from 3'(~1m) to 14' (~4.3m) at a regulated current 350mA.





Canon A80 | Manual | ISO100 | Shutter 0.4s | Aperature F5.0 | Auto White balance
=== 3 feet distance, picture taken from a distance of 6' (~2m) ===





Canon A80 | Manual | ISO100 | Shutter 0.4s | Aperature F5.0 | Auto White balance
=== 6 feet distance, picture taken from a distance of 6' (~2m) ===





Canon A80 | Manual | ISO100 | Shutter 0.4s | Aperature F5.0 | Auto White balance
=== 6000 lumens of shop lights (2x), picture taken from a distance of 6' (~2m) ===





Canon A80 | Manual | ISO100 | Shutter 0.4s | Aperature F5.0 | Auto White balance
=== 14 feet distance to the Maco screw drawer, picture taken from a distance of 14' (~4.3m) ===





Canon A80 | Manual | ISO100 | Shutter 0.4s | Aperature F5.0 | Auto White balance
=== 24000 lumens of shop lights (8x), picture taken from a distance of 14' (~4.3m) ===
=== Yep now you get a chance to see that I don't really have that much toys in my garage ===


Here are couple of the final production decisions recently made.

1. Aluminum Draco will be *plated* with a nickel electroless per MIL-C-26074, Class IV, Grade A, Low Phosphor. 
What does this all means? Well it's gonna be a shinny light, with hardness range of 60-70RC (similar to harden stainless steel) it's harder than most knives in my kitchen, and due to low phosphor process it's gonna be glossy.

2. Titanium Draco will be split lot *coated* between TiN and TiCN. Serial number will be assigned as follows 01-50 TiCN and 01-50 TiN.
Currently, it's the cost is $40-$50 per light to get this coating, which is freaking rediculous. You can purchase an el-cheapo set of TiN 20 pcs endmill set for that price. I will just have to pull some more strings and try to get better pricing.

3. Premium Luxeon III emitter have been upgraded to [email protected] resulting in a 50% increase in intensity at no power cost (well maybe pocket book cost).

4. Premium Luxeon I [email protected] will be available upon request at no additional charge to you.

5. Battery spacer for charging have also been redesign to be a battery extractor.


I will try to finance the entire project until 50% of completion. At which time, I will request a 50% deposit. And the final balance is due upon the shipment of the light.

Within the next 48 hrs I will post the release AA6061-T6 pricing schedule. Once it's posted please let CroMagnet know your order status.
You will also need to verify that your serial number for the material you have selected is within this range:
1-100 for Aluminum version
1-50 for Titanium version with TiCN coating
1-50 for Titanium version with TiN coating


Please refer to Post #2 for production status update.

T/O Story: I had to make a business trip to Micron the maker of Crucial memory for a typical fire/fight visit. After spending over 15 in the fab and in the rush to degown to head out for breakfast, I lost my USB key which contained ALL my personal information. Some of the information relavant to CPF was the rev4 design of Draco ... ouch! So I spent the last couple days going thru the synch data (2 weeks old) and shop prints and was able to reduce the overall light length.


----------



## fore

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Glad to hear that things are progressing but there are more details I'd like to know before I'd want to commit any money.

1. Do you have any pictures of the completed prototype? Hopefully next to some known lights for size comparison.

2. Can you post comparative beamshots of the standard vs. Turbohead?

3. Is this a two stage twisty? If not, how will this interface work? What are the differences between the constant current and the uPic?

4. Do you have any runtime specs for the light?

5. Would it be possible to order a bare Titanium light? I'm not too much of a fan of the TiN, or Nickel plating and don't see the need for TiCN given the durability of Titanium in it's bare form especially given the per/light cost of TiN and TiCN coating


CroMagNet, I'm currently #150, please put down my tentative interest for #1 TiCN, but it's contingent upon receiving answers to the questions I've asked and most importantly the final cost.

Modamag, sorry if my post seems negative. I've been very interested in this light since I first stumbled across this thread, but I'd want to know a lot more details before fully committing. I hope you understand my caution. I'm sure everyone interested appreciates all the thought and effort you've put into this project, myself included.


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Great news on the start !!!!
I'm a little confused (normal) why would you coat Titanium? I kinda like Raw/Nat Titanium. A little more explanation on the Ti and coating would be helpful (to me at least)

Thanks, frisco


----------



## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Ahem, I thought I was #1 in line for Ti! :tsk: :touche: 

I would like to reaffirm my #1 position for Ti(CN) with Turbohead and U-bin please, thank you. 

 
-DF


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*fore: *No offense taken, everyone is entitle to their like and dislike. I really do appreciate you taking the courage to ask those "hard" questions.

1. No not yet, the next picture will be the completed production aluminum version. For sizing reference you can take a look at CroMagnet's 
preview shot at one of the Bay Area lunch get together.

2. Beamshot comparison between standard vs turbo will not be available for a while.

3. Light operation is dependent upon the electronic package you select.
Constant current driver will have a lo/hi two stage twisty.
uPIC will have a lo/hi/burst on/off/on twisty.

4. Runtime chart will be available shortly. Current estimate is 35-230 minutes. Again it's dependent on the converter, drive level and LED Vf bin.

5. Yes, but if we do that the cost per light for coating for the remaining members will sky rocket. I will try figure out a new price structure and how to pull the cost down to earth.

*frisco: *
1. Although Ti have great corrosion resistance but when it comes to halides (chlorides and fluorides) it doesn't do so well. I want this to go thru a standard wash/dry cycle w/o any problem.
2. Titanium on titanium threads tend to gall (stick) so the coating will make it better.
3. Galvanic corrosion due to Ti / Cu junction (negative contact) will be reduced.
4. Electrical conductivity significantly increased from 40 mΩ·cm -> 25 µΩ·cm
5. TiN got a beautiful gold color while TiCN is greyish.

Other than that, it's mainly my personal preference.


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Put me on the list for TiCN:
Old list #66 -> new list #2
Old list #140 -> new list #3

I'm real happy to see that these will get coated, because bare Titanium scratches very easily, something I noticed on the Exolion.

Sigbjoern


----------



## diggdug13

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

thanks for the great updates !!


do you have a general guess as to the estimated cost for the light with the different metal / coatings ? I'm leaning toward Al now because I"m afraid the Ti will skyrocket in cost and with a light this small it won't be too much lighter.


Thank you
Doug


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Thanks for the explaination!

Pease update me for TiCN

Old list #49 -> new list #4 / TiCN / Ubin / turbo
Old list #51 -> new list #5 / TiCN / Ubin / turbo

Add- Aluminum #88 / Ubin / turbo

Thanks, frisco


----------



## quantile

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hi,

nice to see that the Draco is coming together. 

Just in case there is a new list forming, I would like to get on the one for TiCN coating (any number will do/ EDIT: normal head/U bin LuxIII/constant current driver). I have #71 in the original interest list. Thanks.

Marcus


----------



## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Just curious if there is any chance on getting the diagonal knurling like this:







It's my personal preference, but I'll settle for whatever you choose as I know I'll be happy  .

-DF


----------



## malcontent

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Old list #6 -> new list #6 / TiCN / Ubin / turbo

If input is being accepted, I like the looks of the diagonal knurling also.


----------



## Elakazam

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Ok, lets see:

my Old list no. is #93 -> my new list wish no. is #7 with TiCN / Ubin / turbo

Thanks!


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

There are too many options for me to decide so I think I need some more so I can try out to find the one I like best:

#1 TiN
#50 TiCN Turbo

Sigbjoern


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Modamag, I have some more "hard" questions for you. Why use Titanium when they are going to get coated, wouldn't it be better (and maybe cheaper) to use 440C stainless steel instead, which is a harder metal from what I understand.

Can you take a look at XADC-ARMOLOY coating to see if that is suitable to use, it is claimed to be 98 HRC (TiN is 80 HRC and TiCN is 90 HRC).

Sigbjoern


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Edit: please disregard my post, below, as I must have missed some of today's early am posts that outlined a new list or numbering. Sorry.



"New list"? There it is on post #6 and it looks just like the old list to me.

Steve


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

My preferences on *Number 26* would be TiN coating, U bin, Constant current driver.

Thanks, Cliff


----------



## quantile

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



SteveStephens said:


> "New list"? There it is on post #6 and it looks just like the old list to me.
> 
> Steve



That puzzles me as well. Apparently there will be two varieties of the titanium version, TiN and TiCN, 50 pcs. each. Those who chose Ti need to split up 'somehow' between the two options. I for one would very much prefer TiCN over TiN coating as stated above. I'm not sure how the numbers on the interest list play into this.

Maybe some clarification is in order?

Marcus


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Edit: Again, I missed some early posts, especially modamag's from early this morning which answers some of my questions and explains where a new list may come from.

I would like to see some details on exactly what is being offered, as well as what may be offered later after the first units, and then we will have a better opportunity to make up our minds on what we want. That would be the time to start any new lists. I've read here that the TiN and TiCN are "possible options". It's hard to choose from what might be "possible". I'm content to wait for modamag and CromagNet to announce later this week but do hope that all of us who are and have been on the list (post #6) won't have to rush to grab a place on any new list(s).

That diagonal knurling is nice.

Steve


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



SteveStephens said:


> That diagonal knurling is nice.
> 
> Steve


Gotta agree with that one, I really like the diagonal knurling myself.

Cliff


----------



## blahblahblah

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#123 in old list >>> #8 in new TiCN list with Turbo

On edit: U-Bin


----------



## ZeissOEM2

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#9TiCN Turbo new list-#61 old list


----------



## rscanady

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Oh man I cant hold out any longer


Two for me, please:
#147 in Al with whatever coating both Standard Head and Turbo with SXXH Lux I.

#148 in Titanium (Coating doesnt matter to me, standard head & Turbohead, UXOX 


Thanks

Ryan


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Friends,

As of this post, I will have to freeze serial number reservation due to the confusion that it's causing :bow: Sorry CroMagnet et al.

Tony (CroMagnet) will be assigning the serial number based on post #6 list. Everyone will get to see the new list within the next two days.

This project production is based on the following requirement.
1. Quality (size, tolerance, durability, appearance)
2. EDC (Every dude carries) so the cost have to be low for everyone to carry.

With that said, I've been scutinizing every aspect in attempt to achieve that goal. I'll try to get the AA6061 pricing publish shortly.

*Lurveleven: *Sig, I was not aware of XADC-ARMOLOY coating. Indead very interesting especially when high carbon steel heat treated is darn near impossible to damage. The only setback is the electrical resistivity is 10x that of Titanium. I'm still learning


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



modamag said:


> 2. Titanium Draco will be split lot *coated* between TiN and TiCN. Serial number will be assigned as follows 1-50 TiCN and 51-99 TiN.
> 
> You will also need to verify that your serial number for the material you have selected is within this range:
> 1-100 for Aluminum version
> 1-50 for Titanium version with TiCN coating
> 1-50 for Titanium version with TiN coating


modamag, there is a discrepency, above, in the ser. numbers for TiCN. Will they be 1-50 like the TiN or 51-99 as is also mentioned?

*I'll keep my #35 for both aluminum and TiCN, and both with turboheads.*
Because there are only 24 turboheads for the aluminum I will take any other number if needed that will get me a turbohead. 

Does the turbohead option include a complete Draco with standard head plus the turbohead or is it the Draco body with turbohead only? 

Looking very good so far. Thanks for the update which I initially missed today. It would help to have any updates in the first post so they are easy to find.
Steve


----------



## ouchmyfinger

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

this is all very confusing.

Is coating for the Ti mandatory? Seems like uncoated Ti works great for EDC I have an uncoated Ti light on my keychain, in my pocket together with change, lighters and knives, every day, and it holds up fine. Coating is cool and all, but I don't mind small scratches on a light that gets used. And I really like the way bare Ti looks. I also have a (cheap) bare Ti moneyclip that holds up to daily carry just fine. Plus, in terms of cost, coating costs $. A good black HAIII on 6061 would be all the same to me if coating is mandated on the Ti. 

I will make a choice once the new list becomes clearer and I know if there is a bare Ti option. For now, I'm 145 on the old list, and just don't want to lose my spot. Serial number is completely unimportant to me.


----------



## rscanady

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



modamag said:


> Friends,
> 
> As of this post, I will have to freeze serial number reservation due to the confusion that it's causing :bow: Sorry CroMagnet et al.
> 
> Tony (CroMagnet) will be assigning the serial number based on post #6 list. Everyone will get to see the new list within the next two days.
> 
> This project production is based on the following requirement.
> 1. Quality (size, tolerance, durability, appearance)
> 2. EDC (Every dude carries) so the cost have to be low for everyone to carry.
> 
> With that said, I've been scutinizing every aspect in attempt to achieve that goal. I'll try to get the AA6061 pricing publish shortly.
> 
> *Lurveleven: *Sig, I was not aware of XADC-ARMOLOY coating. Indead very interesting especially when high carbon steel heat treated is darn near impossible to damage. The only setback is the electrical resistivity is 10x that of Titanium. I'm still learning




I hope I didnt mess anything up!

Ryan


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



modamag said:


> Friends,
> 
> As of this post, I will have to freeze serial number reservation due to the confusion that it's causing.
> 
> Tony (CroMagnet) will be assigning the serial number based on post #6 list. Everyone will get to see the new list within the next two days.


Thank you. That's a good move. I've seen how confusing and complicated it can get when we try to pick a number yet yield to others who are higher on the initial list. I care more about the light than I do the number on it. It's the other little details that are important and I am happy to wait for them to be posted. When others are rushing to get in on a number or particular version I feel I have to hurry and get in too. Now maybe we can relax and wait until you get more information for us.

Steve


----------



## powernoodle

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

< Power Source: 10280 Li-Ion

Are these unique to AW, or available elsewhere?

cheers


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*





​
I just saw all the "excitement" in our tiny DRACO thread. Sheesh. 

This is going to be an awesome light!! We've been talking about putting this together for over a year now. And soon we'll all get our brobdingnagian meat hooks wrapped around them, so let's just *chill*



for a sec while we figure out the serial numbers. 

BTW Nice work Jonathan!



Those beamshots without turbo-head look awesome!! I would have never guessed they came from a light that is about half the size of an Arc AAA!!

At this time I think I should not do anything until the pricing is announced. That way people who decide to drop out can free up some spots and others can also change their mind to aluminum or titanium instead of their current choice. After that I currently think I should organize the serial numbers with post 6 CPF'rs getting their priority or lowest numbers in the order posted and reflected in post 6. Keeping in mind the new limited quantities of each type. 



So for now...
*please refrain from posting any "changes" to the serial numbers. Just new interest and questions or concerns regarding the DRACO.* So far all the questions are looking like good reasonable ones


*The Post 6 list will be update as soon as I get a chance.*​*

*
I'm going out on a limb here but IMHO and from what I've seen so far, any "Flashaholic" not on the list will surely regret missing out on the smallest and brightest, useful light of its kind, to date. This is a serialized limited run which I thought was going to be bigger but it looks like the numbers are a lot less.
*
PS Jonathan and I are having lunch on Friday and I'll get some more comparison shots and beam shots at that time along with even more exciting data.

*


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Good shot of Shatner Tony, in his pre-corset days. 

Cliff


----------



## dash8

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm interested - Aluminum w/lanyard, nonturbo.

I don't care what serial number. I see in post 231 that underlust is withdrawing from this and he had serial #74, I'll take it if a serial number is needed.

Thanks,

G.


----------



## Datasaurusrex

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



ouchmyfinger said:


> this is all very confusing.



*+1*


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Confusing?....... Nah.... Just get the Platinum one with X-Bin. 




Only kidding, only kidding. 

Cliff


----------



## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

No change for me, just an addition. +1 aluminum, whatever serial number, whatever led, no turbo head, CC [hi/lo] regulation.

Got to have something for the work keyring too  .

-DF


----------



## fore

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

modamag: Thanks very much for answering my questions. Your reasons for going with TiN and TiCN makes more sense to me now. I got pretty amped when I saw your update, I'll try to be more patient. 

CroMaGnet and modamag: Sorry for touching off the serial number craze, but I think it at least affirms the interest out there for this light. Staying with the original list sounds like a good idea especially given how much work went into compiling it in the first place. Still, I must admit that I got a little kick out of riling up DF...En Garde!  

I'm actually glad that a freeze is being put on the serials since DF's a nice guy and I would've had to defer to him anyhow. My apologies to all.


----------



## Archangel

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Look at me, just running across this now. I'm in for one and a turbo head with the not-uPIC driver. Most likely AL and S-bin, though i'll wait for details to say for sure on those two details.


----------



## MSI

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I don't know if this is possible (at this time), but I would love to see the uPic with all three settings user configurable.


----------



## helios

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Put me down for one TiCN with turbo head!


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Ok, now Im in.

S-0H LuxI
TiN
uPIC

Diagonal knurdling :naughty:





What will be the max drive current/wattage? I need to know this to choose between LuxI and LuxIII.


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



Icebreak said:


> Would you please investigate/consider TiCN?


I have no idea how to relate my original number to a new number.

#44 Ti/TiCN.


----------



## Monolith

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Two sets of Ti numbered 1-50 each and one set of nickel plated aluminum numbered from 1-100. I assume that the Ti's will be removed from the master list in order and transferred to the appropriate 1-50 numbered list. The remaining aluminum will be shifted down in order. Accounting for "chosen" numbers would prove to be a nightmare as any Ti above 50 does not exist. I don't envy the OP.


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Thanks, Monolith.


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Did some research on TiN and TiCN color. Thought I might share:






Its not the best but its better than nothing.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



Monolith said:


> Two sets of Ti numbered 1-50 each and one set of nickle plated aluminum numbered from 1-100. I assume that the Ti's will be removed from the master list in order and transfered to the appropriate 1-50 numbered list. The remaining aluminum will be shifted down in order. Accounting for "chosen" numbers would prove to be a nightmare as any Ti above 50 does not exist. I don't envy the OP.


If we were playing charades I'd be tapping my nose right now and you'd be winning the round 

*Thanks to everyone for your patience. 

PS Please DO read my posts for clarity to date.*


----------



## Doc

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Put me down for one in Ti any # or Alum Thanks, Doc.


----------



## TENMMIKE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I DONT THINK YOU CAN TAKE A NUMBER THAT IS ALREADY TAKEN.


Shaocaholica said:


> Ok, now Im in.
> 
> S-0H LuxI
> TiN
> #50(are we not allowed to pick numbers?)
> 
> Diagonal knurdling :naughty:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What will be the max drive current/wattage? I need to know this to choose between LuxI and LuxIII.


----------



## Mitfox

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm in..
1 x TiN for me. Thanks.


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



TENMMIKE said:


> I DONT THINK YOU CAN TAKE A NUMBER THAT IS ALREADY TAKEN.


Oops, I have no idea what is taken!


----------



## Luxbright

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

One TiN for me depending on the final pricing, #33 if possible. otherwise any number or no number also can.

Thanks


----------



## loalight

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm in for 1 Al with turbohead, DOP.


I like the diagonal knurling as well


----------



## chimo

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Interested in Al version pending final price. Diag knurling looks great!

Paul


----------



## diggdug13

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please change my request to Al.

thank you
doug


----------



## Luff

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#102 = TiN, constant current, mineral glass
Still dependent on pricing.

There's some concern about becoming 'locked' into a TiN order, finding out it costs way more than I anticipated and then not being able to revise my request to an Al model because all of the available Al slots have filled. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that the TiN price-point isn't out of my reach ... TiN coated materials are beautiful.


----------



## fleshlite

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

On post # 227 , I had requested serial # 138. I do not see it being listed. 


tks 
chris


----------



## savumaki

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

One in Al plus turbo head.
Any number is fine.

Karl


----------



## Steve77

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'd be interested in 1 TiN with Turbo head please, any number if fine.


----------



## TENMMIKE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

thats ok bud, go to the no.6 post , it shows all that is open


Shaocaholica said:


> Oops, I have no idea what is taken!


----------



## Roger11

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Roger11 Serial # 104, Aluminum, Constant Current Regulation (Hi/Lo), lanyard
Kindly update
Thanks


----------



## PhotonFanatic

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#21--I still want a Ti, non-lanyard, U-bin, TiN coating, and will decide later if there are more options added. Thanks.


----------



## jar3ds

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

sorry if this has been already talked about... but how long is the aprox runtime on the high setting? with a UXOJ/SXOH ?


----------



## nrk

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hi,

I'm still a little confused here. I picked my #81 serial number early before I knew that the 1-50 slot was a different finish then the 51-100 slot.

Please put me down for a TiCn coating and U-bin. Serial # becomes less important.

Thanks. ;-nrk


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I have edited the confusing / conflicting post 236.

The reason why the titanium number got split was to make it easier for our engraver.
Just imagine if he had to do 33 Al, 34 TiN, 35 TiN, 36 TiCN, it'll be a mess.

Thank you for all those who state "serial doesn't matter". It makes CroMagnet and my job alot easier. The only reason I offer serial is sometime a number is significant as a present, birthday, anniversary, or just some wacky thing that happen to the individual.

I myself normally choose #32 which just happens to mean "bizzaro modamag". It helps reminds me to appreciate life alittle more because if somethings that could have would have been a little different that's where I would have been 

Basketball fans might relate to #32 to "Magic" ... the inverse of his airness "MJ".

One other note. The pricing will be release next week. I'm sorry for the delay, one of the final remaining part have not yet been quoted  so in the mean while let's play this game it have nothing to do with Draco other than the time when the game ends.

*jar3ds: *Estimated runtime is calculated as follows.
Battery capacity = 3.7V * 180mA = 666 mWh
J-Vf Power Consumption = 3.1V * 350mA = 1085 mWh
H-Vf Power Consumption = 3.0V * 350mA = 1050 mWh
Converter efficiency ~90-95% so let's take 90% worse case scenario.

J-Vf runtime = ( 666 / 1085 ) * 0.9 (efficiency) * 60 (converts to minutes) = 33 minutes
H-Vf runtime = ( 666 / 1050 ) * 0.9 (efficiency) * 60 (converts to minutes) = 34 minutes

The reason why I didn't post runtime number is I didn't get a chance to run a full test yet. Runtime, thermal, and all the other goodie analysis will be perform shortly.


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Gear knurling would rock.


----------



## k-2

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

My original #'s are 132 (Ti w/turbo) and 133 (Al w/turbo).
Please make my Ti a TiN w/Lux III, and Al w/Lux III.
Serial #, as stated in my original post, really does not matter.

Thanks Jonathan.





k-2


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Since I guess my serial number has to be within 1-100 all that I request is that it AT LEAST contains an 8 or a 6 and has no odd numbers. Strange request, I know.

So for example: 6,8,16,18,26,28,36,38,46,48,56,58,66,68,76,78,86,88,96,98. In an ideal world I'd love to have #36,66 or 68. 

:thanks:


----------



## AuroraLite

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Modamag and CroMAGnet,

Thank you for making the light and arranging the list! :goodjob:

Finally caught up reading most of the thread again, and re-confirming and update my original spot:

#28 AuroraLite (Al, w/ Turbo head, lanyard version)

And jumping into a new spot:

#138 AuroraLite (Ti, TiCN coating, w/Turbo head, lanyard version)

I for sure shall hope the 'light engine' is swappable and if the light can be non li-ion rechargable dependant, even better(buck/boost board with 2 stage?). But if those cannot be materialize, whatever arrangment we have decided in the end, I am equally happy to compile as well. :thumbsup:


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm a little confused. Can I sign up for #88 Aluminum???

thanks, frisco


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

As long as I can get #6 or 66  :touche:


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



pcmike said:


> By the way, here is a revised post #6 with updated numbers for the aluminum people.. I took out everyone who was even thinking of Ti just so us Al people could get some idea.


pcmike, please reinstate me to the list you made. (I was #35 for alum. See my posts #37 and #259 on this thread). I, too, am one of you "aluminum people" but will likely be getting a Ti also. 
Yeah, I know it's not an official list but I feel better seeing my name where it should be.
Thanks,
Steve


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

.
*PCMIKE


PLEASE DELETE YOUR LIST POST.

THERE IS ONLY ONE LIST KEEPER.

NOT TO MENTION IT IS AGAINST CPF RULES 


LETS NOT ADD TO THE CONFUSION. 

APPRECIATE YOUR ENTHUSIASM ;-)*






.


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Haha, sorry Cromagnet. I didn't mean any disrepect.. :buddies:


----------



## rscanady

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



rscanady said:


> Oh man I cant hold out any longer
> 
> 
> Two for me, please:
> #147 in Al with whatever coating both Standard Head and Turbo with SXXH Lux I.
> 
> #148 in Titanium (Coating doesnt matter to me, standard head & Turbohead, UXOX
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ryan




I still would like the above, but serial # is not important to me so it doesnt matter, thanks

Ryan


----------



## powernoodle

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Are the 10280 Li-Ions available exclusively thru AW?

cheers


----------



## jeffb

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Thanks for keeping the list.............
I'm listed as #82; 
Alum for #82 
Turbo Head

Thanks,

jeffb

If avail, one in Ti depending on #


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I would actually prefer if I could get it without serial number at all. As long as I can get it in my preferd finish I will be happy.

Is there any advantage of getting 3W U-bin emmitter over 1W S-bin emitter, to me the S-bin looks like the better deal.

When it comes to the current setting of the drivers, I hope you don't set the low to low like I feel it has been done on McLux PD and Exolion. When it is as low as on those lights you have to choose either not enough light and more than needed runtime or more than needed light and not enough runtime. I miss the well balanced light mode where you get good runtime but are still getting a bright beam. (What I say is not completely true for the Exolion since you can set your own setting for High, but I have now "wasted" it on using it for my custom low mode so I no longer have a High except for burst. Being able to set both Low and High level would have solved the problem). What I would like (especially important for the CC driver) is a low/medium setting that gives me around 2.5 hour runtime, something that should mean running at 80mA.
When it comes to the high/burst mode, I assume it will be 350mA since that is what you used in your calculations and because it is a tiny battery and shouldn't be used harder, does the battery handle 2C discharge?

My revised interest list:
(#066) TiCN / Std + Turbo head / SXOH / uPIC Driver (80mA low +350mA burst)
(#140) TiCN / Std head / SXOH / uPIC Driver (80mA low +350mA burst)
(#???) TiCN / Std + Turbo head / SXOH / CC Driver (80mA low +350mA high)
(#???) TiN / Std head / SXOH / CC Driver (80mA low +350mA high)

Sigbjoern


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



Lurveleven said:


> Is there any advantage of getting 3W U-bin emmitter over 1W S-bin emitter, to me the S-bin looks like the better deal.



Have you seen this thread?

The S-bin Lux-Is out perform the U-bin Lux-III's until they max out at ~2.7W. I'm pretty sure that the Draco wont be able to handle that kind of wattage so go for the S-bin.


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



Shaocaholica said:


> Have you seen this thread?
> 
> The S-bin Lux-Is out perform the U-bin Lux-III's until they max out at ~2.7W. I'm pretty sure that the Draco wont be able to handle that kind of wattage so go for the S-bin.




Thanks for the link, Modamag could make life easy for himself and offer the SXOH as the only emitter option.

Sigbjoern


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Sigbjoern and Shaocaholica -

Thanks, gentlemen.


----------



## diggdug13

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Modmag, 

I don't care about have a number either so "serial doesn't matter to me for my request.

doug


----------



## Luxbright

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMAGnet, could you please kindly add me to the list for an Aluminium version.

Thanks
Terry


----------



## jhung

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please add a turbohead to #23 and #25. Thanks.


----------



## revv11

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please add my name to the interest list, any number.


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I just want to share this with you guys.
Over the weekend it was ~95F (35C) in Bay Area while in our shop it was more like 110F (43C).
I was able to take some time to learn more programming (CNC).

We spent many hours in the shop to make a few minor changes to improve the "human" factor of the light.
Although designed per "standard" the oring felt a tid bit too tight at 30% compression. So we open it up 0.002" to make it feel just right (modamag right!).

Here are some photos I want to share with you all the fun I had over the weekend. Click on the photo for larger pics 




The newest baby used for production of the reflector end of the business.




This is where the battery tube is born. 15 machine operations in total




All the funs of the electronic cans are happening here. 16 machine operations in total.




Machine being calibrated & tooling offset entered.




Pin gauge (GO / NO-GO) used to check battery tube




E-Can faceoff. Poor little piece of aluminum have to face all those powerful carbide & PVD diamond coated bits 




Coolant are applied as the E-can screams for mercy.




The cathode contact of the battery tube was a pain in the [email protected]#$ to make just right. 




First we take a perfectly good battery tube cut it into pieces. The two pieces shown are both part of the main battery tube.




We can now take it to the granite table to ensure proper height for the battery contact (-)


----------



## diggdug13

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Nice photos!!!!!

any Ideas / guesses on the price for these yet?

also would you please change my request to: Aluminum / no serial number

Thank you
Doug


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Yes! Diagonal knurdling! Please tell me that is the final design.


----------



## chimo

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



chimo said:


> Interested in Al version pending final price. Diag knurling looks great!
> 
> Paul



What else do I have to do to get on the list???? It doesn't matter which serial number.

Paul


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

modamag -

Could your work be more precise?


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I do not know how I missed this. Please make the 150 so I can get in.

Ti and turbohead

Robo


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Im still not on the list. Please add me to the Ti-TiN list any number.


----------



## GJW

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

1st choice TiCN
2nd choice AL
Price dependant, of course.
Preference on both would be no serial number.

Thanks


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Tony,

If there are any slots left, please put me down for a second light - Aluminum.
That would make it one light Titanium, depending on price, and one light Aluminum for sure. Any numbers are okay.


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I have been reading the thread and I need to add I want the TiCN coating. 
TiCN-Ti-both heads-any number 
is it possible to get both bodies?
Robo


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*






*The LIST on Post #6 updated and current.

PLEASE DO READ POST 6 for the basics 
as well as Modamag's 1st and 2nd Post in this thread.


Once again, thanks for listing your serial numbers in your change post.*


*

I have not changed the list serial numbers yet because there may still be a lot of people
changing their minds on options etc before or after the price is figured out.



I Can hardly wait to get together with ModaMag to check out all the bodies and parts. 

Here's a 
LINK to POST 6


.

*​


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#146 here. Please update my info with (SWOH LuxI - uPic - Diagonal Knurdling).

Thanks.


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hey Cro,

Thanks for the list keeping.

I'm number 49 and 51

I listed in a previous post the request for a Aluminum one in addition to #49 and #51. Please let me know if thats possible.

Thanks, frisco


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



frisco said:


> Hey Cro,
> 
> Thanks for the list keeping.
> 
> I'm number 49 and 51
> 
> I listed in a previous post the request for a Aluminum one in addition to #49 and #51. Please let me know if thats possible.
> 
> Thanks, frisco


*No problem frisco, I'll adjust it at the next update along with all the other new change requests. You have low numbers so no worries with options for you.

Thanks for posting your serial numbers.*


----------



## Archangel

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Doesn't look i made the list. Could you add me?


Archangel said:


> Look at me, just running across this now. I'm in for one and a turbo head with the not-uPIC driver. Most likely AL and S-bin, though i'll wait for details to say for sure on those two details.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Looks like I did overlook you Archangel. That means you go into the Helios spot and Helios bumps Shaocaholica to the first back-up position.


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



CroMAGnet said:


> Looks like I did overlook you Archangel. That means you go into the Helios spot and Helios bumps Shaocaholica to the first back-up position.



https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1467399&highlight=diagonal#post1467399


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Don't stress too much Shaocaholica. The odds are that at least one of the first 150 people will back out for one reason or another.


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Tony,

Just so there is no ambiguity in my preferences, please adjust #55 to reflect "TiN with Turbo" and Backup - #13 "Aluminum with Turbo". 

Thanks for all your work on keeping the list and for being so patient with those of us who are being a PITA with all our changes.


----------



## jar3ds

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

any idea what the runtime on high will be on the DRACO?


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



jar3ds said:


> any idea what the runtime on high will be on the DRACO?


I've heard 80 hours on high and 1200 hours on low, but that's only if you are using the new micro Mr Fusion fuel cell. :laughing:


----------



## ouchmyfinger

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I am currently 145 on the list in post #6 - if possible I would like to switch to Al from Ti - let me know if I need to find someone to trade spots with or if its all good. I don't really care what serial number I end up with in the end.

Thanks!


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

**** Design Change ****
Due to the many request for LuxI I have change the default LED to LuxI. LuxIII will be an option.

Here's a quick explaination of why I sucum to the request.

If we use a constant current converter, then the most logical choice for LED is a LuxI (S-bin). From preliminary data it have consistantly outperform the LuxIII (U-bin) by ~3-7%. Tint (color) is also much more manageable.

However, I do not recommend the LuxI for those individual who selected the uPic converter option. The uPIC basically PWM (on-off-on-off quickly) the LED. During the ON cycle the LED could experience current surge as high as 1200mA. LuxI internal resistant significantly increase when it's driven at > 500mA. LEDs are solid state device it not like incandescent, which is more tolerant to burst. So if you want to use uPIC option I recommend the LuxIII , which is much more tolerant to that current level.


*Shaocaholica: *Diagonal knurling is the final production design.
*Icebreak: *Yes it could be more precise ... actually it could be down to 0.0002" (0.005mm) but then it will carry the cost of "space shuttle" parts.
Final price = Current Price << 3 
*jar3ds: *Runtime:
· ~ hi setting (350mA) = 33 minutes
· ~ low setting (60mA) = 3.6 hours
*JimH: *You're killing me. The're gonna make me commit to that. Then I'll start doing more R&D with the with the Micro Jet Engine. Here are some samples.
At that point Draco will really be breathing out fire.


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

OK after running the numbers thru our our machineshop, accountants, and several prominent members here are the preliminary pricing.

*=== Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===*
Draco (complete light) ... $149.99
Turbo head... $49.99
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... TBA

*=== Titanium 6AL-4V (TiN / TiCN coating) ===*
Draco (complete light) ... $254.99
Turbo head... $119.99
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... TBA

* $0.01 fuel surcharge per item.

_*<Marketing Tone Enable>*_

*Standard light features.*
- Integrated E-Can = improve thermal management
- Optical grade Sapphire lens = improve durability & light transmission
- McR-11 reflector = improve beam profile
- Premium [email protected]@ LuxI emitter = maximize light output at no power cost
* Optional: [email protected]@ LuxIII emitter = ideal for overdrive.
- Custom O-ring seal = water proof
- Constant Current Regulation (60mA / 350mA) = minimize degradation of LED
* Optional: uPIC PWM (lo/hi/burst) = achieve maximum brightness
- Battery spacer
- Keychain attachment

*Benefit / Drawback*
+ Smallest and lightest Luxeon based semi-production light
+ Brightest light in its class, well it's the only light in the class.
+ Rechargeable and low cost of operation
- So small it's easily misplace if not properly storage
- Friends will borrow and keep it indefinitely
- Your wife (significant other) will also want one

_*<Marketing Tone Disable>*_


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'm in. It don't scare me !  


Cliff


----------



## AW

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I 'm in for the alum. CC version. Thanks!


----------



## srue

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



modamag said:


> *=== Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===*
> Draco (complete light) ... $149.99
> * $0.01 fuel surcharge per item.
> 
> - Premium [email protected]@ LuxI emitter = maximize light output at no power cost
> * Optional: [email protected]@ LuxIII emitter = ideal for overdrive.
> 
> - Constant Current Regulation (60mA / 350mA) = minimize degradation of LED
> * Optional: uPIC PWM (lo/hi/burst) = achieve maximum brightness



I'm still in for an Aluminum version. (Serial #112 - I don't care about the serial number for the light, although if 21 does open up I'd love to have it)

A few questions:
1. What are the current levels for the uPIC? (I'm hoping lo and hi will be equal to the standard model (60/350) and burst will be whatever the battery can provide without exploding.)

2. Is there a price premium for the uPIC and/or U-bin LuxIII?

3. Any special behavior for the uPIC - is it similar to a 2-stage switch (twisting one direction advances through stages, twisting opposite direction backs down through stages to off)?

Thanks


----------



## k-2

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Modamag, CroMAGnet,
I'm #132 and #133 on the list. After reviewing the specs posted, please change my request to:
#132 TiN, no Turbo, Constant Current Regulation, Lux I.
#133 Al, no Turbo, Constant Current Regulation, Lux I.
Awaiting pricing and runtimes on the extended battery packs.
Turbo head a little too much for me




.












k-2


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



modamag said:


> OK after running the numbers thru our our machineshop, accountants, and several prominent members here are the preliminary pricing.
> 
> *=== Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===*
> Draco (complete light) ... $149.99
> Turbo head... $49.99
> Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... TBA
> 
> *=== Titanium 6AL-4V (TiN / TiCN coating) ===*
> Draco (complete light) ... $254.99
> Turbo head... $119.99
> Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... TBA
> 
> * $0.01 fuel surcharge per item.
> 
> _*<Marketing Tone Enable>*_
> 
> *Standard light features.*
> - Integrated E-Can = improve thermal management
> - Optical grade Sapphire lens = improve durability & light transmission
> - McR-11 reflector = improve beam profile
> - Premium [email protected]@ LuxI emitter = maximize light output at no power cost
> * Optional: [email protected]@ LuxIII emitter = ideal for overdrive.
> - Custom O-ring seal = water proof
> - Constant Current Regulation (60mA / 350mA) = minimize degradation of LED
> * Optional: uPIC PWM (lo/hi/burst) = achieve maximum brightness
> - Battery spacer
> - Keychain attachment
> 
> *Benefit / Drawback*
> + Smallest and lightest Luxeon based semi-production light
> + Brightest light in its class, well it's the only light in the class.
> + Rechargeable and low cost of operation
> - So small it's easily misplace if not properly storage
> - Friends will borrow and keep it indefinitely
> - Your wife (significant other) will also want one
> 
> _*<Marketing Tone Disable>*_


*That's one heck of a deal for such a powerful and versatile tiny custom flashlight!

OK! So now that the prices have been announced, please confirm your interest for SN and options so I can split off the lists for Al, TiCN and TiN. Post 6 list will have numerical list priority. 

Please put your 2nd choice if you want a Draco either way, at the posted prices. Hopefully everyone gets what they want.

Modamag.... *You might want to change the Thread title to "Confirm Your Draco Options. Paypal coming soon" or something like that, because we have to have the requests confirmed available before they paypal.


----------



## MorpheusT1

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Ok,


I want the following:

*Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating)*
Draco (complete light) ... $149.99
Turbo head... $49.99

*Optional: [email protected]@ LuxIII emitter = ideal for overdrive.*
*Optional: uPIC PWM (lo/hi/burst)



Thanks,*
Benny


----------



## malcontent

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

To confirm:
#006 - 1 Ti Draco, TiCN, Ubin, Constant Current Regulation, 
I may be interested in the Extended Battery Pack depending on cost.

I would like to withdraw from the Turbo option please.


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#44 Icebreak. I'm still in for Ti/TiCN. 

Diagonal knurling...Yee Haw!
Extended Battery Pack (AAA)...Woo Whoo!

srue -

Good questions.

AW -

Can we get the batteries and chargers from you? If so, would you give us a link to the correct ones?


----------



## blahblahblah

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#123 on post 6
My preferences for SN in order: #8, #18, #28, #38, #50, first available

Titanium 6AL-4V TiCN coating
Draco (complete light) ... $254.99
Turbo head... $119.99
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... TBA
Premium [email protected]@ LuxI emitter (SXOH preferred)


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Gotta read this in the morning to make the right decision. See ya then!


Karl


----------



## chasm22

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hi,

I would like to make the following changes to;

*S/N #92*: Aluminum/Turbo head/luxIII/uPIC PWM

*S/N #121*: Aluminum/standard package.

Thanks,

Chuck
CPF=chasm22


----------



## liqht

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

can i please get on the backup list for any serial number of...

Aluminum 6061-T6 / Draco (complete light) ... $149.99
Aluminum 6061-T6 / Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... TBA

can't decide on S or U bin and with or without PWM regulation
whatever gives the best runtime is what i want

thanks


----------



## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

What's our rough timetable for payment? That may make my confirmation for my second Al unit change. But here is the definite confirmed...

S/N #1 
Titanium 6AL-4V TiCN coating
Draco (complete light)
Turbo head
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... (depending on cost)
Optional: [email protected]@ LuxIII
Optional: uPIC PWM (lo/hi/burst)

 
-DF


----------



## chimo

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Backup List. 

Any Ser#
=== Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) === (Standard)
Draco (complete light) ... $149.99
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... TBA


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Backup list #1. Confirm interest.

$250 for the smallest light ever....:lolsign:


VVVVV I bumped you because I got moved from the main list VVVVVV


----------



## Doc

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I am #1 on the back up list! Some one else can have the Ti one! Im in for 1ea Alum & Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... TBA stanard two stage with SXOH. Serial number 25# If not Any serial number will do! Thanks, Doc


----------



## kevindick

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Confirming #39 Ti w/TiCN. Extended battery back. No turbo head.

Question regarding PIC option. I assume that that hi/lo regulated brightness is the default an PIC PWM controlled brightness is the option? I'd prefer just hi/lo regulated.

Thanks


----------



## Datasaurusrex

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

45 & 113 please add extended (AAA) battery pack if that becomes an option.


----------



## HenryE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#37

Confirming aluminum
* Optional: [email protected]@ LuxIII emitter
* Optional: uPIC PWM (lo/hi/burst)

If another 500 lumen z-bin becomes available, please phone me.

Henry


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

To confirm # 26; Ti Draco w/TiN coat, turbo head, constant current driver and SXOH Lux1. Extended crew mounted battery pack when available.

Cliff


----------



## Archangel

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Confirm AL, body only; any # is fine.
Still want constant current and S-bin.
I assume the AAA option is li-ion?


----------



## jeffb

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Confirm

#82 Alu Nickel Plate
Constant regulated current
Lux 1

Turbo head.
AAA body when avail.



Thank You

jeffb


----------



## Archangel

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

What "kind" of beam does the McR-11 give? Does it have a definite hot spot? How much does it differ from the McR-18? Are there any pix of it in action?


----------



## TENMMIKE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

confim number 50, ti, ticn finish, REMOVE my request for TURBO HEAD please , KEEP all else as listed as standard on post 341


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#35
Confirmation:

*One Aluminum with Turbo*

*One TiCN with Turbo*

Both with LuxI, constant current, (extended battery pack(s) a possibility)
Serial #35 on each 

Thanks,
Steve


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Is the beam compareable to an ION? Any way of seeing the two side by side?


----------



## schiesz

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Confirm:

#85 - Al, S bin Lux I, constant current

schiesz


----------



## ouchmyfinger

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

confirm:
i am #145 on post 6, but I would like aluminum if possible. If not I'll keep my ti spot. serial number unimportant to me. Constant Current edition please.


----------



## AW

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



Icebreak said:


> AW -
> 
> Can we get the batteries and chargers from you? If so, would you give us a link to the correct ones?


 
Here :

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1138078#post1138078


----------



## gregw

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Confirming Serial number #88. 

Switching from Ti to Al.

=== Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===
Draco (complete light) ... $149.99


----------



## nekomane

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#075 Ti with Turbo Head *bailing out*.
Can't afford this now 

Truly interesting project though, I will keep watching this thread. 
Good luck and thanks modamag, CroMAGnet and all contributors!


----------



## AuroraLite

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMAGnet,

Thanks for keeping the list updated, I just noticed we have too many orders and my 'second addition' is a little too late entering the scene. May I change my original order one last time to the following and put myself onto the backup list:

#28 AuroraLite (Ti, TiCN coating, w/Turbo head, lanyard version)

Backup list:

AuroraLite (Al, w/ Turbo head, lanyard version)


Thank you!! :bow:


----------



## quantile

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hi,

I am #71 on the original list, confirming for:

TiCN / Lux1 S-bin / constant current driver

Any serial number will do.

Thanks,
Marcus


----------



## ZeissOEM2

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#61 confirm TiCN Turbo LuxI S-bin cc -lanyard 


Thanks

Have a nice day all of you.
I have to feed the horse now


----------



## diggdug13

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

confirm #87
Aluminum 149.99
Aluminum Turbo head 49.99


Confirming aluminum

* Optional: uPIC PWM (lo/hi/burst)

Please I would like to request NO SERIAL NUMBER on mine.

also Please let me know when payment is required. this rocks!!


doug


----------



## dduane

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Tony, I'm back from NYC and see it's time to order. I'm #58, Al, with turbo head. Any side by side shots of standard and turbo? I'll call you about which emitter and uPIC. Thanks, Duane


----------



## FRANKVZ

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Hi
I'm #54 on the list. I'll take one aluminum for $150. I would really like SN 10 if it becomes available, if not any # will do.
Thanks
Frank


----------



## Luff

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#102 on the list, would like it to be:

Al, S bin Lux I, constant current

Any serial number (or none at all) is ok by me.


----------



## Wong

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#95
Alu - $149
comfirmed

Thanks and regards
Wong


----------



## jdriller

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Confirming, #63 switch to Al, complete light with uPic. $150?


----------



## revv11

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Confirming Back-up #10...

Aluminum, standard configuration.


----------



## helios

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

confirmed #143

Please change to aluminum and no turbo head


----------



## jar3ds

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

dang... now i'm seriously debating getting one of these beasts ....


----------



## TSWrench

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Modamag,

I am #94. Unfortunately, due to bad timing, I can't participate in this purchase. Great light though!


----------



## flashlight

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Confirming #3 complete light but switching to Al from Ti.


----------



## loalight

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

confirming my interest in Al, SN not important. further options to be spec'd if I get off the back-up list!


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

1st choice TiN with turbo. 2nd choice/2Nd light Aluminum with turbo. Both high/low only no flupic.


----------



## dduane

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



dduane said:


> Tony, I'm back from NYC and see it's time to order. I'm #58, Al, with turbo head. Any side by side shots of standard and turbo? I'll call you about which emitter and uPIC. Thanks, Duane



FINAL ANSWER= Al, turbo, hi/lo AND AAA body(edit).

THANKS


----------



## flex76italy

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Please remove me from the list.

Thanks.


----------



## luxlunatic

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I must surrender my spot #72 from the list :sigh:, too many fingers in too many jars.


----------



## Fusion

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Confirm:
#69 Aluminum 6061-T6 Complete Lux I


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Modamag, e-mail to you.  


Karl


----------



## tdurand

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Just a post to tidy up my picks...
Slot #4 = TiN / Turbo on the side / Ubin / AA tube TBD / Serial #4
Slot #64 = TiCN / Turbo on the side / Sbin / AA tube TBD / #4 if possible
Slot #86 = Al / No turbo / Sbin /AA tube TBD / #4 if possible

Thanks!
T


----------



## tdurand

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Also John,
Could you link post #341 (the pricing) to the #1 post?
Thanks
T


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Slot #9 serial #9 if possible, TiN Draco, U bin Lux III, TiN Turbo, uPIC, extended battery pack. Slots 10 and 11, still thinking...  



Karlthev


----------



## Lynxis

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

To Confirm...
#131 .... 

Aluminum 6061-T6 Draco, & Turbo-Head
uPic PWM, UWO? bin Lux III, 
extended battery pack (pending price)


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

All, the current production run is the 100x Aluminum units then 100x Titanium (50TiCN / 50TiN), in that order.
I will not be taking any payments until we are closer to completion. A 50% deposit is required after machining and remaining balance will be settle prior to product shipment.
Please check with Post #2 for all updates.

*srue: *The duty cycles of the uPIC converter will yeild an approximate equivalence of 60-120mA on low / 350-400mA on high / ALL OUT on burst.
I'm trying to negotiate so that there is no premium on the uPIC & Lux III at the current moment. Worst case scenario it will be $5. The uPIC will be on-off-on-off, each time it goes on the state changes. While the CC solution is much more finesse, you partially rotate clockwise until LOW goes ON then rotate CW a little more for HIGH. I offer both option, because I know you guys are gonna try to mod this anyway to milk the last lumen out of that Luxeon.
*ZeissOEM2: *Cute pony 
*Archangel: *Post #2 got all the summary and links you need. Specifically here's the beamshot.
*tdurand: *Unfortunately I can not at this moment. Next week I will do so.


----------



## Lynxis

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Modamag...
could you clarify...
I'm on the list for #131 ... does that mean I can have the more affordable
Aluminum version or does the #131 imply "which metal" ???

You can shift me to another number for the Aluminium if need be!
I noticed #72 dropping out // I could live with #72


----------



## aosty

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



modamag said:


> The uPIC will be on-off-on-off, each time it goes on the state changes.



Modamag... just to clarify... so it is *not* like the FluPIC where you have to single/double/triple click/twist within 800/1200ms to get to the next mode?

Thanks.


----------



## aosty

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

#30 - TiCN / no turbo / SxxH / debating CC or uPIC


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



Lynxis said:


> Modamag...
> could you clarify...
> I'm on the list for #131 ... does that mean I can have the more affordable
> Aluminum version or does the #131 imply "which metal" ???
> 
> You can shift me to another number for the Aluminium if need be!
> I noticed #72 dropping out // I could live with #72


You can request anything you want. I will try to fit everyone in with there desires in the order they posted. Please post your prefereces.

I'll make a whole new group of lists after I get more confirmations.


----------



## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



DFiorentino said:


> What's our rough timetable for payment? That may make my confirmation for my second Al unit change.




:wave: 

 
-DF


----------



## Barefootone

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

 Sorry I must bowout of # 108 Ti, but this is not a good time for me  . Thanks Modamag and CroMAGnet for all your hard work. I wish you the best of luck with the Draco project.

Barefootone


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Can someone tell the pros/cons of CC vs uPic?


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



JimH said:


> 1st choice TiN with turbo. 2nd choice/2Nd light Aluminum with turbo. Both high/low only no flupic.


In my haste, I forgot to include my list numbers.

#55 and Backup - #13


----------



## idleprocess

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I think I'm going to have to drop out. If there were only going to be 100 of each material made, requesting #149 doesn't make much sense if production is truly _serialized_...

*EDIT* : Disregard the above. I'm sticking with it unless it's already too late. I see I'm still on the list.

#149 in aluminum, with "stock equipment."

Question: Will cell(s) and charger be supplied? If not, anyone got a source?


----------



## russtang

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I too must give up my slots #16 and #126. I simply do not have the funds available right now.:thumbsdow 

Unforseen medical expenses will have me running lean for a couple of months.
I hope this does not cause any problems.

Great looking light. Good luck on this project Modamag!


----------



## Lynxis

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



russtang said:


> I too must give up my slots #16 and #126. I simply do not have the funds available right now.:thumbsdow
> 
> Unforseen medical expenses will have me running lean for a couple of months.
> I hope this does not cause any problems.
> 
> Great looking light. Good luck on this project Modamag!


 
I would like to take Serial #16 versus 131 which I now have!
Could you do that please!

thanks!


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Alright.... Please don't throw rocks at me! Could someone please explain to me the output options.... I am really new to this modded LED terminology.... Mostly a retail buyer.

Basic 3rd grade (maybe 6th grade) English would be appreciated.

I really have no feel on how bright these options are?

-I know how bright the following lights are:

ARC P aaa
Fenix LOP
Fenix L1P
Fenix P1
SF E2E
SF L2

Where does the Draco reside? (Modamag, no disrespect meant!)

Is there an option to get the brightest output with multi stage? Or is the brightest option single stage?

Will the Turbo head just increase throw?

Sorry to bring the dialog level so low here !!!

frisco


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



frisco said:


> -I know how bright the following lights are:
> 
> ARC P aaa
> Fenix LOP
> Fenix L1P
> Fenix P1
> SF E2E
> SF L2
> 
> Where does the Draco reside?
> frisco


Without the turbo, it should be like the L0P. Maybe a bit brighter with an S-bin LuxI.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



frisco said:


> Alright.... Please don't throw rocks at me! Could someone please explain to me the output options.... I am really new to this modded LED terminology.... Mostly a retail buyer.
> 
> Basic 3rd grade (maybe 6th grade) English would be appreciated.
> 
> I really have no feel on how bright these options are?
> 
> -I know how bright the following lights are:
> 
> ARC P aaa
> Fenix LOP
> Fenix L1P
> Fenix P1
> SF E2E
> SF L2
> 
> Where does the Draco reside? (Modamag, no disrespect meant!)
> 
> Is there an option to get the brightest output with multi stage? Or is the brightest option single stage?
> 
> Will the Turbo head just increase throw?
> 
> Sorry to bring the dialog level so low here !!!
> 
> frisco


Here's my quick take on the questions you raise, which is probably less than yours. eheh

Start with a battery 3.7v ish
Add LED
Drive it at 300mA

You get a brightness of L0P

I think the Draco will be about 400mA (FluPic 800mA on burst)

So it's brighter than the L0p which is pretty bright. BUT The DRACO is way smaller.

Then

Improve the crappy reflector with one of the best ones we have on CPF from our own McGizmo and you get a better beam that has less loss due to better surface area as well as more focused shape to columinate more photons in a controlled direction for better illumination or farther.

Now you are a lot better than the L0P... Maybe brighter and better focus than the infamous NANO... and still way smaller. And we haven't even brought up the Turbo Head. yet.

Then you get into LED's LUX I or LUX III.... hmmm depends on the choice of converter here. I can hardly wait to see them all side by side to find out. 800mA on burst would make better use of the LUX III Ubin and would probably end up crushing the aformentioned lights in brightness and focus ie Lumens and LUX. And still way smaller... remember that picture I took of it hiding behind an Arc AAA.

I bet the Sbin with 400ish mA will best the L0P and the NANO but I doubt it will be as bright as the L1P. It would be awesome if we could get it to L1P output level. :shrug: maybe...

I also think the FluPIC on burst using the AAA extender tube will rawk the most!! 

Now add the larger Turbo Head... sheesh. It will focus more photons onto a focused point for higher LUX. So you can light up things farther away. And STILL way smaller than the others.

I;m guessing it will be about the size of the Streamlight Nanomate but WAY more powerful.

PS We are also looking at another primary alkaline battery that may work with the DRACO. I have one and it fits perfect. So we'll see.

Lots of exciting things coming in the next few weeks! ModaMag, Jonathan has a real sweet light developing here. It's definately going to have a home on my keychain as an EDC Every Dude Carry 


{please correct me on all my stab at the question with all the assumptions  }


----------



## idleprocess

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

By designating the flux (brightness) bin of the LED and the drive currents, you're getting a known entity. Assume that you lose 35% of the lumens due to reflector losses, lens losses, and the Lumileds "fudge factor" (maintaining 25C to the die is essentially impossible without a heatsink far larger than a flashlight). Ideally, the Draco should put out more light than the Fenixes, although only an integrating sphere test of both would settle the issue.

The turbo head should increase throw due to the greater reflector surface area. Bigger reflectors can result in tighter hotspots or larger hotspots, depending on the design.


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

You have to remember that AW said the 10280 will drive a Lux-I at spec and not much more. Not all Li-ion have the same output capacity, especially the little ones. It's pretty much given that the 10280 cannot drive a Lux-III at spec let alone at 800mA. My guess is that the 10280 will be able to output at best 1.5W of power so you'll either be over driving a Lux-I or under driving a Lux-III. From this chart, you can see that a over driven S-bin Lux I in the 1.5W range is brighter than an under driven U-bin Lux-III.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



Shaocaholica said:


> You have to remember that AW said the 10280 will drive a Lux-I at spec and not much more. Not all Li-ion have the same output capacity, especially the little ones. It's pretty much given that the 10280 cannot drive a Lux-III at spec let alone at 800mA. My guess is that the 10280 will be able to output at best 1.5W of power so you'll either be over driving a Lux-I or under driving a Lux-III. From this chart, you can see that a over driven S-bin Lux I in the 1.5W range is brighter than an under driven U-bin Lux-III.


Yes exactly. Well put, I agree. The AAA tube will drive the UXOJ on 800mA burst quite well don't you think? 

Or LUX I with alkaline primary on the two-stage but better than the L0P


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



CroMAGnet said:


> Yes exactly. Well put, I agree. The AAA tube will drive the UXOJ on 800mA burst quite well don't you think?
> 
> Or LUX I with alkaline primary on the two-stage but better than the L0P


Hmmm. I don't know if 1xAAA NiMH can drive a Lux-III at spec. If a AAA cell can output 2A, then thats 2.4W at 100% efficiency. I say the most you can hope for is 2W to the Lux using NiMH AAA. Oh and even if you could get 3W output, even the AAA size will get hot in a hurry.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

AAA LiON for 3w
AAA primary for 1w

But I just bought a L0P clone today that has a 1w but can use primary or LiON AAA


----------



## andrewwynn

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

1/2W for alkaline AAA.. 1.1W is about the max for NiMH AAA and 1.7W for LiON AAA. (that's roughly the max spec for the different chemistries). Push them any harder and you'll get greatly reduced MAH. 

-awr


----------



## vcal

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



CroMAGnet said:


> But I just bought a L0P clone today that has a 1w but can use primary or LiON AAA


Did you order the [Ultrafire-AAA] eBay one for $19.90 +(10.ship)??

-I did also.....


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMAGnet,

Are we allowed to just "swipe" lower serial numbers as they become available or are you going to "redistribute" them to those already on the list first?

:thanks:


----------



## chimo

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



pcmike said:


> CroMAGnet,
> 
> Are we allowed to just "swipe" lower serial numbers as they become available or are you going to "redistribute" them to those already on the list first?
> 
> :thanks:



It's certainly time to move the Back-up people onto the main list.


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

With people dropping out I might get in. :rock: 

If I could I would like to get one of each metals. Two please.

One Ti with pic, both tubes, both heads, Lux III either finish would prefer TiAlN

The other base Al with Lux I.

Thanks. 

Oh, I can't open the pictures on my computer here at work so I do not knoe what place I am.

Robo


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Guys please make this easy on CroMagnet and me.
Please DO NOT SEND us PM requesting number and option.
Just post it so other can see that you "claimed" the number. If you stake it first then it's yours simple as that.

I do not want to put a surcharge on the serial, but if this "chaos" progress, I will do so.

I just want to let you guys know that CroMagnet is doing us all a favor by maintaining the list right! He's not getting any special treatment so please be nice to him. 100x of PM per week is an exhausting task.

CroMagnet's stepping up to the plate for "list management" have free up alot of time for me to fine-tune Draco to the best of my ability. :bow: thank you Tony.

With that say let's try to make this a fun project for both the producer team and consumer side.

Thank you all,
Jonathan

*aosty: *The uPIC is a variant of the fluPIC from goldserve. So same technology and UI.
*frisco: *Valid question. I too don't quite know for sure at the moment.
With the same power source and reflector size, I will dare say that Draco will be on top of it's class.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*





*Thanks JD! *





LMAO I didn't even get the S/N I wanted! DFiorentino beat me to it! eheheh



vcal said:


> Did you order the [Ultrafire-AAA] eBay one for $19.90 +(10.ship)??
> 
> -I did also.....


VCAL: Yup! We'll have to compare notes  Send me a PM if you can when you get it.

AWR: Hey thanks for chiming in. I was hoping you would. I'm not very good with those 'electronic' number details. It's all just guess work for me until we get together for lux readings and comparison beamshots 

Overall. I think the tiny 10280 draco will be brighter than the stock L0P but probably brighter than the L1P with the LiON AAA tube. Also looking forward to discharge curves. This is such a kewl project. I can see why you get so enthused about you creations 

Thanks to everyone for your patience. I guestimate that everyone on this thread will be able to get one so far but maybe not the exact metal. It will all go by the date of your post for priority on what you want. There will also be the CPF kindness factor and goodwill that we see so often here that may help accomodate all the little details so it all works out. Ultimately it is best if we all get the exact light we are hoping for. And with all the options (especially when we're talking about output levels, as in the few posts prior) available on this awesome little creation, it might not be that easy for YOU to choose. 

*I'll try to get the new list completed today so we have a clearer picture of what is available etc. *


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*BTW Here is that pic showing the bare prototype behind the RED Arc AAA missing the skinny head.*









You really come to realize the tiny size when holding it in your hand. 

BIG Thanks to AW because we couldn't do this without him spending months to find this tiny powerful battery!! :twothumbs

.​


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Thanks for the hard work Cro :rock:


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*


Ok! I shuffled the list around a lot even though I think it was premature. I think it will be OK but I do need the rest of the people on the interest list to confirm their choices since the pricing was announce or things will really get screwed up. I don't want to assume anything, even for the playa's! 





* Let's get the following people to confirm their choices by Midnight July 4th or they risk getting bumped. (even though it's a small risk anyway)

 PLEASE Keep in mind that I may have made an error and missed someone who confirmed or vice versa. 

So those listed below please CONFIRM by POSTING in this thread.**

flashlight (confirmed Ti but what kind??)
WAVE_PARTICLE
Radio
trivergata
karlthev w/Turbo
karlthev w/Turbo
Amorphous Ti w/turbo
Bogus1
PhotonFantic TiN Ubin non-lnyd
jhung turbo
jhung (Ti turbo)
Morelite
XFlash
ddaadd (Ti?)
Dogliness (Ti?)
tvodrd
Aaron1100us (Ti$? w/turbo$?) ($?)
lasercrazy (w/turbo)
nemul
Lunarmodule (Ti w/Turbo)
andrewwynn
marcspar
M_R (Ti w/Turbo)
M_R
Dawg (Ti?)
Bogus1 (w/Turbo) prefer no SN
benh
FlashMike (Ti?)
Carpe Diem (Seize the Ti w/Turbo)
MY (Ti)
voodoogreg
RED_DOT
Lurveleven TiCN / Std+Turbo/ SXOH/ uPIC Driver (80mA lo +350mA burst)
PeterB
thesurefire (w/Turbo)
darmawaa (Non Lanyard??)
dash8
Lunarmodule (Ti w/Turbo)
Uriah
GhostReaction
nrk (tiCN w/Turbo) Ubin
HEY HEY ITS HENDO
bl4kkat
Regentag (Ti w/Turbo)
scrappy (Ti W/Turbo)
scrappy (w/Turbo)
Milkyspit $? (w/Turbo)
Regentag (Ti w/Turbo)
Monolith (w/Turbo - no serial)
goldserve (Ti w/Turbo) prefer no SN ???
Blindspot (w/turbo Ti)
dbedit (Ti)
christrose (Ti)
ledaholic (w/turbo) Ti$? (me too!)
cgpeanut
jsr $?
lildave (same as ddaadd)
JohnnyDeep (Ti w/turbo)
Milkyspit (hoping to trade for 91, 97 or 38)
vcal
dbedit
Erin0919 (Ti w/turbo)
Flashgreenie (Ti w/turbo)
Yaesumofo (Ti w/turbo)
Frenchyled (Ti premium) $?
Bullzeyebill (w/turbo) Ti$?
BugLightGeek (Ti w/turbo)
dbrad
maro w/turbo $?
fleshlite
Dfiorentino #141?
bombelman


Back-up List
Mitfox TiN
Luxbright TiN
Savumaki Turbo
Steve77 TiN turbo
Lurveleven TiCN / Std+Turbo / SXOH / CC Driver (80mA lo +350mA hi)
Lurveleven TiN / Std head / SXOH / CC Driver (80mA low +350mA high)

Please excuse me if I missed your confirmation or something 

We need all of these people to confirm all of their positions by July 2nd.

Thanks again for everyone's patience.




*


----------



## blahblahblah

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

deleted post


----------



## kevindick

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Interesting, I didn't notice I was on the list twice. When confirming, I just happened to read the list from the bottom up. I only posted interest once. I'll take 27. Guess that means there's another open spot.


----------



## aosty

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



CroMAGnet said:


> Please excuse me if I missed your confirmation or something
> 
> We need all of these people to confirm all of their positions by July 4th if that date is fine with Modamag.




You missed me! Post #401...

 





And make it CC driver, please.


----------



## Luff

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Being easily confused, I also risk being repititious by writing that I'd like to CONFIRM my desire to purchase an aluminum 'Draco' as stated in post #379. Although that change is not reflected in what I currently see in post #6, I'm sure it will be. As much as I'd like the titanium body, my bank balance says otherwise.

CroMAGnet, I don't know how you keep it all straight, but we sure appreciate your efforts!


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

LOL I have long ago resigned myself to the possibility that this will not go as smooth as I would like. I just hope that I can keep track well enough so everyone gets what they want, within reason.

OH! BTW Did I mention I got my #1 slot!!





Just a fluke since DF went for Ti.

*aosty* I actually have you down TiCN #30 :thinking:

:shrug:

I expect more of this. LOL

blahblah, you're in at #8 TiCN


----------



## Roger11

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Roger11 Serial # 104, Aluminum, Constant Current Regulation (Hi/Lo), lanyard, Lux III
Kindly update


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

*I can see that I'd better post what I have so far...
*


----------



## blahblahblah

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



CroMAGnet said:


> ...
> OH! BTW Did I mention I got my #1 slot!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> I expect more of this. LOL
> 
> blahblah, you're in at #8 TiCN



I want to do a



too!


----------



## malcontent

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMAGnet,

I think you have me listed in the wrong Ti list?
I am wanting the TiCn..
Thanks!




malcontent said:


> To confirm:
> #006 - 1 Ti Draco, TiCN, Ubin, Constant Current Regulation,
> I may be interested in the Extended Battery Pack depending on cost.
> 
> I would like to withdraw from the Turbo option please.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Gotcha covered Malco. My bad


----------



## Doc

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

post #357 I would like to get on the list for Alum one serial # 25 if it is open! Doc.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Doc, I've got you in backup #2. You're ok.


Doc said:


> post #357 I would like to get on the list for Alum one serial # 25 if it is open! Doc.


----------



## malcontent

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



CroMAGnet said:


> Gotcha covered Malco. My bad


 
Many thanks! This list management stuff has to be hard on the head...:goodjob:


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I went in with eyes wide open, knew what I was getting into. Modamag is so selfless when it comes to helping out on CPF as in his personal life, I just saw it as an opportunity to follow his lead hoping some would rub off on me. 

Oh, did I mention I got the #1 slot?






[edit]LOL I'm hopeless and need more work. Maybe I'll give it to someone I've had in mind for a couple of weeks now


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

CroMagnet,
#35 on current list-

I confirmed in post #366 but see my name as unconfirmed on your post #427 today. That might be since I was on the original list as # 35 AND #139 somehow.

_The line in post 427 below my name shouldn't apply to me as I haven't made such a request.
SteveStephens (w/turbo) (Ti?)
TiCN / Std head / SXOH / uPIC Driver (80mA low +350mA burst)_

So this is a re-confirmation, as follows, with a few changes to clear things up.

*One Aluminum with Turbo LuxI, constant current
One TiCN with Turbo LuxIII, uPic
*
Note change to uPic for the Ti light only.

I would like to change my serial number request from 035 for each light to _002 for Aluminum_ and _007 for Ti/CN_ if those numbers are still available. Hope this doesn't confuse things for you any more than they must already be. Thanks for keeping the list Tony. You deserve #001 for the work you are doing.
Thanks,
Steve


----------



## TENMMIKE

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I POSTED CONFIRMATION in post 365 "confim number 50, ti, ticn finish, REMOVE my request for TURBO HEAD please , KEEP all else as listed as standard on post 341", thanks cromagnet for your keeping this all in order


----------



## alauda

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I am going to have to back out of the original #78 (Ti w/turbo)  

However 

I would like to confirm the original #120 (Al) now with Turbo, LuxI and CC

Aluminum 149.99
Aluminum Turbo head 49.99
AAA when ready

Many many thanks for sorting this out. I get so confused just reading these posts. There are so many options it hurts.

:goodjob:


----------



## kit

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Modamag, 

Please take me out of the list (out of budget)...thanks.

kit (w/turbo)


----------



## idleprocess

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

#149 in aluminum doesn't look like it's going to happen, so I'll take any available S/N in aluminum, "stock."

*EDIT* so it looks like I can't read and got 64. 64 is good since it's 32 twice.


----------



## Archangel

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Is #73 isn't waiting to be confirmed, i'd like that one only because that's what my Spy is. No worries though. I don't care enough to fight anyone over it.


----------



## AW

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

CroMagNet,

Can I get 8, 18, 38, 68 or 88 if not too much trouble ? Please.

Many thanks!
AW


----------



## goldserve

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Aww??? I didn't get serial 99 

I want TiCN with no turbo head...


----------



## jefft

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Confirmed. #15


----------



## ICUDoc

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Hi guys

Just confirming I want Ti with Turbohead and SXOH constant current driver
Ideally I'd like 007 please in TiN
I was 067 but that seems not to be a Ti option?
Thanks


----------



## GJW

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I'm still in for AL and prolly a AAA pack.
Still up in the air on the converter choice though.

Thanks


----------



## stevevh

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I am still in for a TiCN with lanyard/keyring attachment.
Any serial # is fine.

Thanks,

Steve


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

TiN #50 please. I hope its not taken somehow since the numbers got all mixed together. Also I think I'm off the backup list.


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I'd like to confirm the purchase of #006 Al, constant current, Lux1.

:thanks:

EDIT: Just so this doesn't come out of left field later.. I'm considering the turbo head, but I'd really like to see beamshots first. Heck, I'd really like to see beamshots comparing the Draco to the ION in stock configuration. They seem to be pretty dang similiar, or am I wrong?


----------



## gregw

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

CroMAGnet, Please confirm Serial #88 for me for Al as posted in my previous post #371


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



pcmike said:


> I'd like to confirm the purchase of #006 Al, constant current, Lux1.
> 
> :thanks:
> 
> EDIT: Just so this doesn't come out of left field later.. I'm considering the turbo head, but I'd really like to see beamshots first. Heck, I'd really like to see beamshots comparing the Draco to the ION in stock configuration. They seem to be pretty dang similiar, or am I wrong?


They are absolutely different in every way.

Totally different LED Luxeon Vs Cree
Totally different reflector Custom McR VS Custom Ion
Totally different Battery 10280 LiON Vs CR2 Primary (But LiON 3.0v works too)
Totally different body DRACO is thinner and smaller
Totally different key chain attachment section but they both can stand on end

I too am looking forward to comparing the two but they are totally different and I expect very different beam pattern results


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Makes sense CroMAGnet. I'll stay tuned for some beamshots, it will definitely be interesting. The one thing I'm praying for is that the amount of twisting between low/high is not nearly as much as that required on the ION. In my opinion the amount of twisting needed to get to high on an ION is a bit excessive.

If this isn't too invasive, may I ask who is designing the constant current driver? Is there any sort of overdischarge protection designed into the driver so that the batteries don't "let out smoke?" :naughty: Also, is there no chance at all for HA3? I hear this Nickel Electroless plating isn't as tough and if this is suppose to be a keychain light I'd really prefer something AT LEAST as tough as HA3. 

Also, is there any chance of getting a cell or two and the nano charger sent out with the light all at once? Would you be willing to offer that option? It makes sense since almost no one has these 10280 cells or the spacer needed to charge them in a nano.

:thanks:


----------



## rscanady

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Mr. Cromag

Please change mine to the following:
Two for me, please:
#147 in Al with whatever coating both Standard Head and Turbo with SXXH Lux I.

#148 in AL (Coating doesnt matter to me, standard head & Turbohead, UXOX,PIC) 

and the serial numbers dont really matter to me either

Thanks

Ryan


----------



## k-2

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

CroMAGnet,

Thank you for being the Keeper Of The List



.
To confirm, I am #132 for Ti and #133 for Al on the original list.
I am #16 for TiN and #75 for Al on the latest list.
No turbo heads, constant current regulation, Lux I's for both.
Absolutely confirmed.
Awaiting pricing and runtime on extended battery packs.
Serial # does not matter, so if anyone wants my #'s, I'll be happy to take whatever #'s you give me.





k-2


----------



## Rookwood

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Hi there -

If possible, I'd like to change my light (#125) finish to the gold TiN. I still want the additional turbohead.

Thank You! 
Chris

ps: could I please be added to the backup list for 1 aluminum w/Turbo head?


----------



## Elakazam

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I would like to change from U-Bin to premium S-emitter if its still possible, (TICN-coating and turbo please).

Thank you, Oliver


----------



## Darkstar

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Wow, a lot of catching up to do but it will have to wait till work slows down. In the meantime I want to confirm my Ti/? w/ Turbo and an aluminum w/out, S/N is 33 & 33 if available. 
Thank you CroMAGnet for all your work!:rock: 
And of course thanks to all the designers etal.:rock: :rock: :rock:


----------



## jar3ds

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

*TWO Questions:*

1) Does the Draco have a 2.7v cutoff for the li-ion? Or do you just have to keep an eye on the output?
2) I assume that the Nano Charger won't overcharge the unprotected li-ion right?

Thanks!


----------



## bwaites

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Cromag,

After talking with Modamag last night, confirming that I want Aluminum 13 and Titanium 13. 

The others can be released.

Bill


----------



## jsr

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Dangit! I'm going to have to drop out so #107 is available. My wedding is getting way too expensive!


----------



## Lynxis

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Please move me up to #3 or #7 Aluminium from #16 if
3 or 7 becomes available because on non-confirmations.

Would be sincerely appreciated!


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

.







.


----------



## srue

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



modamag said:


> *srue: *The duty cycles of the uPIC converter will yeild an approximate equivalence of 60-120mA on low / 350-400mA on high / ALL OUT on burst.
> I'm trying to negotiate so that there is no premium on the uPIC & Lux III at the current moment. Worst case scenario it will be $5. The uPIC will be on-off-on-off, each time it goes on the state changes. While the CC solution is much more finesse, you partially rotate clockwise until LOW goes ON then rotate CW a little more for HIGH. I offer both option, because I know you guys are gonna try to mod this anyway to milk the last lumen out of that Luxeon.



That sounds awesome. I'm in for the U-bin LuxIII and the uPIC.

*CroMAGnet*: somehow I got put in spot 72 - I'd like to have 21 (see post #344) since it is open.

Thanks - I appreciate all your hard work.


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I'd be in for an aluminum 2 level. I havn't read the thread, so not sure about anything else.


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I had previously confirmed #9 spot for the Ti with turbo and all options. I am now confirming the number 10 spot Aluminum with turbo and all options. Number 11 spot is "up for grabs" from my perspective.

Karl


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Just to be clear, I now have both #9 and number 10 spots reserved.


karl


----------



## Fusion

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Quick question.... I'm not sure yet if I want to go with the CC Lux I or the U-bin Lux III with UPic. Is it possible to get both "heads?"


----------



## goldserve

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Cromagnet,

Please put me down for serial #23 Aluminum. You ocan remove me from ti list and turbo head option. Thanks!


----------



## jar3ds

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



jar3ds said:


> *TWO Questions:*
> 
> 1) Does the Draco have a 2.7v cutoff for the li-ion? Or do you just have to keep an eye on the output?
> 2) I assume that the Nano Charger won't overcharge the unprotected li-ion right?
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



jar3ds said:


> *TWO Questions:*
> 
> 1) Does the Draco have a 2.7v cutoff for the li-ion? Or do you just have to keep an eye on the output?
> 2) I assume that the Nano Charger won't overcharge the unprotected li-ion right?
> 
> Thanks!


jar3ds: Modamag will answer your questions when he gets a chance. He is super busy helping in the machine shop between working his regular job so his days are long. These are good questions. Just a bit more patience 

Goldserve: Did you want the CC or the FluPIC with that?? 

Keep the confirmations coming, I'm working on the list and it's looking good for everyone.

Also, thanks for everyones kind words and support


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

-----Just wanted to keep this CONFIRMATION REQUESTED LIST up front here and in POST 6-----


Ok! I shuffled the list around a lot even though I think it was premature. I think it will be OK but I do need the rest of the people on the interest list to confirm their choices since the pricing was announce or things will really get screwed up. I don't want to assume anything, even for the playa's! 





* Let's get the following people to confirm their choices by Midnight July 4th or they risk getting bumped. (even though it's a small risk anyway)

 PLEASE Keep in mind that I may have made an error and missed someone who confirmed or vice versa. 

So those listed below please CONFIRM by POSTING in this thread.**

flashlight (confirmed Ti but what kind??)
WAVE_PARTICLE
Radio
trivergata
karlthev w/Turbo
karlthev w/Turbo
Amorphous Ti w/turbo
Bogus1
PhotonFantic TiN Ubin non-lnyd
jhung turbo
jhung (Ti turbo)
Morelite
XFlash
ddaadd (Ti?)
Dogliness (Ti?)
tvodrd
Aaron1100us (Ti$? w/turbo$?) ($?)
lasercrazy (w/turbo)
nemul
Lunarmodule (Ti w/Turbo)
andrewwynn
marcspar
M_R (Ti w/Turbo)
M_R
Dawg (Ti?)
Bogus1 (w/Turbo) prefer no SN
benh
FlashMike (Ti?)
Carpe Diem (Seize the Ti w/Turbo)
MY (Ti)
voodoogreg
RED_DOT
Lurveleven TiCN / Std+Turbo/ SXOH/ uPIC Driver (80mA lo +350mA burst)
PeterB
thesurefire (w/Turbo)
darmawaa (Non Lanyard??)
dash8
Lunarmodule (Ti w/Turbo)
Uriah
GhostReaction
nrk (tiCN w/Turbo) Ubin
HEY HEY ITS HENDO
bl4kkat
Regentag (Ti w/Turbo)
scrappy (Ti W/Turbo)
scrappy (w/Turbo)
Milkyspit $? (w/Turbo)
Regentag (Ti w/Turbo)
Monolith (w/Turbo - no serial)
Blindspot (w/turbo Ti)
dbedit (Ti)
christrose (Ti)
ledaholic (w/turbo) Ti$? (me too!)
cgpeanut
jsr $?
lildave (same as ddaadd)
JohnnyDeep (Ti w/turbo)
Milkyspit (hoping to trade for 91, 97 or 38)
vcal
dbedit
Erin0919 (Ti w/turbo)
Flashgreenie (Ti w/turbo)
Yaesumofo (Ti w/turbo)
Frenchyled (Ti premium) $?
Bullzeyebill (w/turbo) Ti$?
BugLightGeek (Ti w/turbo)
dbrad
maro w/turbo $?
fleshlite
Dfiorentino #141?
bombelman


Back-up List
Mitfox TiN
Luxbright TiN
Savumaki Turbo
Steve77 TiN turbo
Lurveleven TiCN / Std+Turbo / SXOH / CC Driver (80mA lo +350mA hi)
Lurveleven TiN / Std head / SXOH / CC Driver (80mA low +350mA high)

Please excuse me if I missed your confirmation or something 

We need all of these people to confirm all of their positions by July 2nd.

Thanks again for everyone's patience.




*


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I don't believe you have me down correctly. I had responded that I am in for a Ti with Turbo and U bin and flupic.....#9 in the original sign up list. I most recently (hour ago?) indicated that I also want (#10 in original sing up list again) an Aluminum with turbo and options. So that is two of this fine light, #s 9 (Ti with Turboand options) and #10 (Al with turbo and options). Let me know if this is what you understand CroMagnet. Thanks!  


Karlthev


----------



## dduane

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



CroMAGnet said:


> *I can see that I'd better post what I have so far...
> *



Tony, Can I have #88 if it's not taken yet? Otherwise I'll stick with 58, reflecting my (old) age in December. I know! I know! 88 reveals a wisdom beyond my years...
Thanks, Duane


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

This is great but, "scratch" my name off for number 11 under the Aluminum. 


Karlthev


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Back up #11

I would Like a Ti TiCN, Pic U-bin lux III, both heads, both tubes.

I would also like a Al, T-bin Lux I, with both tubes, constant curant. If there is room.

Thanks Robo


----------



## goldserve

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I'll take uPic with that....haha

I may very well end up assembling these down there...gotta ship all my soldering iron, etc  



CroMAGnet said:


> jar3ds: Modamag will answer your questions when he gets a chance. He is super busy helping in the machine shop between working his regular job so his days are long. These are good questions. Just a bit more patience
> 
> Goldserve: Did you want the CC or the FluPIC with that??
> 
> Keep the confirmations coming, I'm working on the list and it's looking good for everyone.
> 
> Also, thanks for everyones kind words and support


----------



## jhung

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Cromag,

Confirm one Al w/turbo, and one TiCN w/turbo both #15 if avaliable. Thanks.


----------



## Luff

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

If it should turn out that #78 becomes available, I'd love to have that serial number (it's my CPF member #), but it's no big thang one way or the other.


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



SteveStephens said:


> _The line in post 427 below my name shouldn't apply to me as I haven't made such a request.
> SteveStephens (w/turbo) (Ti?)
> TiCN / Std head / SXOH / uPIC Driver (80mA low +350mA burst)_



That were my request (#140), appears my name got lost.

I will like to confirm and change my request to:
(#066) #2 TiCN Std light + Turbo head + AAA body if available
(#140) #3 TiCN Std light
(#backup-list) #5 TiN Std light

Sigbjoern


----------



## PhotonFanatic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Updating my wish list:

TiN, #3, S bin, non-lanyard, uPIC driver

Thanks.


----------



## flashlight

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Confirming Serial #3 but please change mine to Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) Complete light as per my post #386. 

May add option for AAA body depenidng on final price.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



flashlight said:


> Confirming Serial #3 but please change mine to Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) Complete light as per my post #386.
> 
> May add option for AAA body depenidng on final price.


OK Gotcha covered. 

I'm just updating the list to this point for everyone confirmed so far. It will take a few minutes to do but I'll post it in POST 6 tonight


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Wow. That took a lot longer than I expected. Here's the update so far, also posted on POST #6

*srue* #21 is not available in alluminum (yet)
*Goldserve* #23 is not available in aluminum (yet... see next line)
*jhung* #15 is not available in Aluminum so I will put both of yours in 22 if that's ok and give Goldie your #23 Alu spot.
*Darkstar* TiN or TiCN?
*Luff*Gotcha on #78 for CPF#
*Datasaurusrex*TiN or TiCN?
*rscanady*TiN or TiCN?


*Once again, apologies to all if I missed you somewhere. It's really coming together though 

Also PLEASE try not to KEEP switching serial numbers if you really don't have to. If you really really need to I'll do my best to accomodate.*


*THE FOLLOWING STILL NEED TO CONFIRM do them a favor and let them know if you see them around.*
WAVE_PARTICLE
malcontent TiCN CC Ubin
Radio (w/turbo) (Ti?)
trivergata
Amorphous Ti w/turbo
Bogus1
Morelite (Ti w/Turbo)
XFlash
ddaadd (Ti?)
Dogliness (Ti?)
tvodrd
Aaron1100us (Ti$? w/turbo$?) ($?)
lasercrazy (w/turbo)
nemul
Lunarmodule (Ti w/Turbo)
andrewwynn
marcspar
M_R (Ti w/Turbo)
M_R
Dawg (Ti?)
Bogus1 (w/Turbo) prefer no SN
benh
FlashMike (Ti?)
Carpe Diem (Seize the Ti w/Turbo)
MY (Ti)
voodoogreg
RED_DOT
PeterB
thesurefire (w/Turbo)
darmawaa (Non Lanyard??)
dash8
Lunarmodule (Ti w/Turbo)
Uriah
GhostReaction
nrk (tiCN w/Turbo) Ubin
HEY HEY ITS HENDO
bl4kkat
Regentag (Ti w/Turbo)
scrappy (Ti W/Turbo)
scrappy (w/Turbo)
Milkyspit $? (w/Turbo)
Regentag (Ti w/Turbo)
Monolith (w/Turbo - no serial)
Blindspot (w/turbo Ti)
dbedit (Ti)
christrose (Ti)
ledaholic (w/turbo) Ti$? (me too!)
cgpeanut
lildave (same as ddaadd)
JohnnyDeep (Ti w/turbo)
Milkyspit (hoping to trade for 91, 97 or 38)
vcal
dbedit
Erin0919 (Ti w/turbo)
Flashgreenie (Ti w/turbo)
Yaesumofo (Ti w/turbo)
Frenchyled (Ti premium) $?
Bullzeyebill (w/turbo) Ti$?
BugLightGeek (Ti w/turbo)
dbrad
maro w/turbo $?
fleshlite
Dfiorentino 
bombelman
Mitfox TiN
Luxbright TiN
Savumaki Turbo
Steve77 TiN turbo


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I don't see myself on the list.. I confirmed #006 (Al, CC, LuxI, no turbo) back in post #455.  I went ahead and went back through every post made in this thread and the only reference to spot #006 was by malcontent and it was for a Ti model. Since the new Ti list(s) had been started I haven't seen anyone lay claim to #006 Al. Please let me know if I'm in error, as I'd really appreciate this particular serial number.

Also, just so my other post does not get overlooked I'll quote it below:


> If this isn't too invasive, may I ask who is designing the constant current driver? Is there any sort of overdischarge protection designed into the driver so that the batteries don't "let out smoke?" Also, is there no chance at all for HA3? I hear this Nickel Electroless plating isn't as tough and if this is suppose to be a keychain light I'd really prefer something AT LEAST as tough as HA3.
> 
> Also, is there any chance of getting a cell or two and the nano charger sent out with the light all at once? Would you be willing to offer that option? It makes sense since almost no one has these 10280 cells or the spacer needed to charge them in a nano.



:thanks: Jonathan & CroMAGnet


----------



## Elakazam

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I am sorry, but i have to quit. I have some unexpected costs of repair for my car, poop... 

Please remove me from the list.

Thanks, Oliver


----------



## GhostReaction

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I m bailing out. somebody can have my spot


----------



## Luxbright

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry, I'm out. Thanks for all the hard work. Please remove me from the list.

Terry


----------



## PeterB

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I wan't to confirm mine:
- Aluminium
- Constant current driver
- #68 seems to be impossible => #8 if free (or any other number)

Thanks!

Peter


----------



## XFlash

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

For Conformation
XFlash #31

=== Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===
Draco (complete light) ... $149.99
Turbo head... $49.99
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... TBA

Thanks


----------



## mohr

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

hi,

if it is not too late i would like to order a TiN with turbo and SXOH emitter

regards christian


----------



## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



DFiorentino said:


> What's our rough timetable for payment? That may make my confirmation for my second Al unit change.




Beuller?


Hey CroMAGnet, I'm glad you got your #1 spot  .

-DF


----------



## Mitfox

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry, I'm opting out.


----------



## malcontent

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



CroMAGnet said:


> *THE FOLLOWING STILL NEED TO CONFIRM do them a favor and let them know if you see them around.*
> malcontent TiCN CC Ubin


 
Confirming #006 - malcontent TiCN CC Ubin


----------



## alauda

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I can not see me on the list. I confirmed on #444.

Many Thanks


----------



## Luff

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

CroMAGnet:

My communication skills suck ... hence my low post count. What I meant to write, but didn't, was that I wanted to _change_ my serial number from #99 to #78. Of course, that's not what I wrote and you did exactly as I asked (thanks!).

Still, as much as I'd like two of these, there's just no way I can. My apology for causing you to make yet _another_ change on my behalf (it'll be my last), but please remove me from #99 so someone else can have it.

Although, when it comes right down to it, you can assign me any serial number you want, or no serial at all, and I'll still be happy.


----------



## Bern

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

TiCN w/Turbo #13 if avail any number


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

*pcmike*I have you at #136 on "the list" with a note to get #6 if nobody in line before you claims it by Sunday. 
*peterB* #8 has not confirmed yet so it's not available (yet)
*mohr* You're in at #23
*alauda* Had you on my internal list but missed it on the posted one above

*OK Updated to here *


----------



## Lynxis

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Hi CroMAGnet,

please move me from #16 .... to #7 prefered, or
number #5 if they become available under Aluminium.
thanks for keeping track!


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Alright, well with that in mind I got a bounty out on anyone who claims #006 before [email protected]$  :touche:


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Will the AAA tube definitely be made? Will it also be offered in TiN/TiCN?


----------



## christrose

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry, I'll bail out. Please remove me from the list #103.
However I'll trace this impressive project.
Thanks modamag, CroMAGnet.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



pcmike said:


> Alright, well with that in mind I got a bounty out on anyone who claims #006 before [email protected]$  :touche:


*trivergata * claimed it long before you did, so I'll have to defend his choice, if he has any. 























































​


----------



## chasm22

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Cro,

On the latest list, I have serial numbers 76 and 92 on the AA6061 list. I would like to have serial numbers 99 and 100 on the same list. No problem if it can't be done.

Regards,

Chuck


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



CroMAGnet said:


> *trivergata * claimed it long before you did, so I'll have to defend his choice, if he has any.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



He has no choice, so its no problem! :lolsign: Besides I thought he was #8.


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

confirmation.....was no. 83 (or lowest available)

aluminium.. constant current .. SXOH


----------



## GJW

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Could I please be moved from #9 AL to #12 AL?

Or #4 as it seems to have opened up -- see below

Thanks


----------



## tdurand

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Please remove my requests for Al #4 and TiCN #4

Thanks
T


----------



## Steve77

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I am confirming (if it's not to late since I don't have a preference on serial number) for a TiN with the optional turbo head ,CC,S bin.

May get the AAA tube as well depending on price.


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I saw I have been moved to confirmed on #24 Al. Thanks.

I have not been confirmed on Ti. If I cannot get a Ti I would like two Al.

Thanks for getting me in.

Robo


----------



## Datasaurusrex

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Cromag, I'm going to drop the Ti (too rich for my blood).

I will keep the Al... and want it as bright as possible. I guess that would be Upic with a lux III?

Still in for turbo and AAA body.


----------



## ZeissOEM2

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Please add AAA body if available.

Any idea when we have to pay,i will be offline in the next 1-2 weeks.

O.Reidar


----------



## Dogliness

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Put me down for an aluminum, possibly with U bin LuxIII emitter and uPIC (depending on the cost of the U bin and uPIC).

Please put me down for S/N 002 if it is available. Otherwise, please put me down for S/N 004 that tdurand cancelled.


----------



## rscanady

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Cromag,
I am good with the TiN coating, and the numbers are fine, thanks
FWIW, I would like the Lux I at CC, and the Lux III with the uPIC. Turboheads with both.

Ryan


----------



## savumaki

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Back up No.6- sorry I have to withdraw.
Thanks for the heads up.

Karl


----------



## Regentag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Confirming my order for a DRACO as follows:
(#097) TiCN Std light + Turbo head + AAA body if available

If there are other Ti lights available, I'd like to add a second!

Cheers,


----------



## flashgreenie

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Confirming for a Ti/TiCN with turbohead. 
If possible, I would like #013 on that list or #007 as a second choice.


----------



## Maro

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry, I'm out. Please remove me from the list.


----------



## vcal

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry, I'll have to back out also..-too rich for my blood right now..


----------



## nrk

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I'm going to withdraw too.

I found the switchover from the original list very confusing and I think I'll wait on the sidelines. 

;-nrk


----------



## Frenchyled

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Confirming one TI/TIN without Turbo (too rich for my blood  ) ) and Premium LUX III with Flupic if possible.. choose the number #13 for me 

Thanks..


----------



## lasercrazy

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Wow. More than I thought, I'm out.


----------



## dbedit

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Confirmed,
I am still in for the Ti #115


----------



## tvodrd

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Reconfirming #36 aluminum EN, no turbo head.

Larry


----------



## Carpe Diem

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry, but please remove me from your list. 

The flashlight will undoubtedly be great, however, and I already regret this decision.

Best regards!


----------



## bombelman

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

This light would be a very nice addition to my collection. I really like small (*tiny*) lights. Unfortunately, I cannot afford such a light at the moment...

Thanks for your efforts !!


----------



## mohr

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

could you please change my #23 into #20. 20 is my lucky number (birthday 02.20.1968)
regards christian


----------



## Blindspot

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Just got your PM and have not been following the thread since it went up. I'm trying to quickly wade through this thread and figure out how things evolved - I originally expressed interest in a complete Ti light with turbo head. The price list is a bit confusing to my simple mind - could you please clarify the total price of the light?


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

$150 for Al, $255 for Ti... $50 extra for an Al turbohead and $120 extra for a Ti turbohead. So for you the total would be $375.


----------



## Morelite

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I'm still in if I can have bare Ti (no TiN or TiCN) with turbo head, constant current driver and luxIII and AA tube if available. I have no preference for a particular serial number, so any no. will do.


----------



## Amorphous

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

PM sent

Thanks Tony.


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Robo #10 TiCN Please drop my turbo head. I am sure will regret not getting the turbo but I would rather have both lights more.

Thanks Robo


----------



## fleshlite

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Confirming # 138

Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===
Draco (complete light) ... $149.99


----------



## nemul

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

AL Sbin CC NS


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

CroMAGnet, please drop me from the list. Thanks,

Bill


----------



## ddaadd

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Confirmation, ( thanks for pm )

Hope I read and understand correctly.....


ddaadd / lowest available sn

(bare/or ti colored plating?)

ti w/ turbo, 3watt u-bin, u-pic

I've not found estimated payment due date yet, help me plz!.....


----------



## Uriah

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Confirming my spot for 1 Draco serial number doesn't matter.

=== Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===
Draco (complete light) ... $149.99
Turbo head... $49.99
AA tube depending on price.


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

CroMAGnet, Modamag

-Confirming #49 Aluminum (San Francisco 49ers Edition)

Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===
Draco (complete light) No Turbo Head... $149.99

-Releasing #49 TiCN

Thanks, frisco


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry if this has been mentioned before..... do we get batteries here? Or do we order them from AW?

frisco


----------



## FlashMike

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I'm afraid I need to drop out. No issue with the light, just can't budget for another custom right now. Good luck - I look forward to reading of your progress.


----------



## DFiorentino

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Confirming my second unit #141: 

=== Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===
Draco (complete light) 
- Premium [email protected]@ LuxI emitter
- Constant Current Regulation (60mA / 350mA)

Prefered serial number: #5
Back-up serial number: #100
Back-up, back-up serial number: anything else  

-DF


----------



## Roger11

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Serial number 104 once again confirming Aluminum, Constant Current Regulation (Hi/Lo), lanyard, Lux III.


----------



## rscanady

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



frisco said:


> Sorry if this has been mentioned before..... do we get batteries here? Or do we order them from AW?
> 
> frisco



I am really hoping at the prices that this includes batteries also....???

Ryan


----------



## milkyspit

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Confirming ALUMINUM version with TURBO head (does the regular head come with it as well, or is it an either/or thing?).

As for the circuit: I get a bit picky about having smooth switching. If the constant current dual stage will be nice and smooth... no flicker, no dented batteries, etc... then it's for me! Otherwise I'll go with the uPIC.

*PLEASE... SERIAL #097* if it's still available!


----------



## Aaron1100us

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Yeah, I'm going to have to drop out too. Way too much $ for me right now. I was #38. Thanks. Was hoping for under $100


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Time's up! Serial Number confirmation is over and I'm adjusting the list right now.

Most will get their numbers but many are asking to be moved to the same lower numbers and I need to give priority to the lowest original number cofirmers.

BBIAF


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Yes! No one asked for #006!! Puh puh please CroMAGnet, don't let me down! I'm going to get some gas, I'm gonna check this right when I get home. Can't wait to see the final list.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

*Regentag* Ti light serial numbers only go up to 50. So I put your two TiCN lights in #11 and #12 but if you want a gold TiN I can get you into #6. Please post your choice
*dbedit* I have you in #4 TiN, Let me know if you meant TiCN
*mohr* #20 Aluminum is taken but you can try to PM JimH and ask if he would trade with you, ask him to let me know. - Please let me know what I can get for you from the available numbers.
*Roger11* You got #11 
*Bern* I got you on my list at #14 and will post it on the next update. (#14 TiCN w/Turbo) Welcome to CPF, hope you stay a while 
*pcmike* Yeehaw! U got #6!!

*
This was tricky but after a couple more hours I hope I didn't miss anyone who confirmed and I hope you all got the numbers you wanted 

We still have about 15 more that need to confirm.



It's Late now, must sleep




*


----------



## erinO919

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry, I'm out, too.


----------



## marcspar

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I just got back from three days away from the net. Can I still get my unit?

I was number 46 - aluminum.

Thanks,

Marc


----------



## GJW

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Please move me from #9 AL to #42 AL.
Thanks


----------



## flashlight

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Ti/Tin #2 should still be available as I'm not taking it unless there's another CPFer with the username '*F*lashlight'.


----------



## trivergata

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry - I had a last minute trip for work to a place they've never even heard of the net, and missed my spot!

Sorry for the hastle, Cro

Josh


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Josh, You still have a spot, just not that serial number. I can give you #9 Alu #2 TiN or #15 TiCN 

GJW: Moved
Flashlight: removed TiN
Erin0919: removed
Marcspar: Gotcha on #46 Alum, unless you want a TiCN or TiN


----------



## marcspar

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Tony, thank you! Number 46 (aluminum) it is......

Marc


----------



## liqht

*novice runtime guesstimates*

not sure if this belongs in the sales thread, please move if inappropriate.
also, if in posting this i have violated some protocol or unwritten rule, modamag, please accept my apology in advance.

i was trying to figure out runtimes for different combinations of the S bin and U bin LEDs, with the constant current and PWM drivers.

i've come to the conclusion that, at these drive levels, you will get pretty much the same runtime regardless of whether you choose the SX0H or the U_0J LED. so it's probably best to make your LED choice based on the driver you prefer...

as modamag said, choose the U_0J if you get the uPIC so it can handle the burst
if you are concerned about tint shift from underdriving the U_0J with the constant current driver, just go with the SX0H

EDIT 7/3/2006
- incorporated input from chimo and goldserve
- added 2nd chart to cover AAA battery
- added bottom end of each input level from uPIC driver

EDIT 7/5/2006
- added additional battery types suggested by blahblahblah (thanks)
- combined all battery types into a single table







NOTES:

* per chimo's suggestion, used lumileds datasheets to estimate Vf at different inputs. lumileds data is +/- 0.06 V
* SX0H max Vf is 3.99
* 90% efficiency assumption borrowed from modamag
* shows both top and bottom end of the range given by modamag for each drive level, as well as drive levels suggested by others
* maximum input from uPIC driver in burst mode reduced to 700 mA per goldserve
* at the end of the runtime, the battery would be completely exhausted if there were no protection

thank you chimo and goldserve for feedback. please let me know if there are other factors that need to be taken into account.

these are mathematical estimates only, and the real-world results will be different depending on a number of other factors. this is just ballpark.

here are the posts (mostly from modamag and cromagnet) from which i picked up the relevant information, including the basic formulas:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1421158&postcount=1
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1466293&postcount=236
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1469727&postcount=297
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/120454
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1477555&postcount=340
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1477594&postcount=341
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1479254&postcount=398
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480046&postcount=412
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480055&postcount=414
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480060&postcount=415
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480073&postcount=416
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480084&postcount=417
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480101&postcount=418

here are links to the lumileds datasheets where i got the Vf estimates at each drive level:
luxeon I emitter: http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS25.pdf (see page 10)
luxeon III emitter: http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS45.PDF (see page 11)

AAA alkaline battery info from silverfox: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660


----------



## benh

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I'm going to have to back out. Sorry. Looks like a seriously sweet light, and I'll probably regret this.


----------



## MorpheusT1

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry,


You can remove me from the list.



Benny


----------



## goldserve

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

The burst current will most likely be around 700ma or less if people want. With such a small battery, I'm thinking 450ma should be the max. What does everyone think? Li-ion safety or mad brightness in a small package?


----------



## chimo

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



goldserve said:


> The burst current will most likely be around 700ma or less if people want. With such a small battery, I'm thinking 450ma should be the max. What does everyone think? Li-ion safety or mad brightness in a small package?



Kevin, you should probably set these at 2C of the intended battery packs. If the 10440 batt tubes are used then ~600mA. For the 10280's then 450mA makes more sense. I would recommend the lower figure.

Paul


----------



## chimo

*Re: novice runtime guesstimates*



liqht said:


> i've never done this type of computation before, so i have no idea if these results are correct. please let me know if i've not included something significant.



Here's a fairly significant issue you should factor in. The Vf of the LED is not static - it changes with the amount of current passing through it. The Vf range quoted in the bin is for a 700mA drive current for the LuxIII and 350mA for the LuxI. The V/I curve is not linear (especially in this range), but you could probably count on at least a 0.4V drop for a LuxI and a 0.7V drop for the LuxIII going down to 60mA from the rated drive current.

Paul


----------



## Shaocaholica

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



goldserve said:


> The burst current will most likely be around 700ma or less if people want. With such a small battery, I'm thinking 450ma should be the max. What does everyone think? Li-ion safety or mad brightness in a small package?


Mad brightness wont mean much if the lights explode or ruin batteries. Please play it safe.


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Will batteries be supplied or do I need to order some now?
Will the nano charger that came with AW aaa & charger pack work with a spacer?
I know I am putting the cart before the horse here but just want to be prepared.
Robo


----------



## Lynxis

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

What sort of time-frame are we looking at???
Time-line projects would be nice...


----------



## liqht

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

thank you goldserve and chimo for additional info...see updated runtime estimates above


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Goldserve, I want stupid bright (750 +) on my max setting. If the group goes for the lower would you make the higher output available to those of us who would swap them out latter. Thanks Robo


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Somehow I got on the list twice, #26 and #12. Please remove both, I decided I didn't want to deal with another battery type. Especially a really rare one for EDC use. So I am backing out. It looks like it will be a really cool light though.

Light,
I don't think it will run on a 1.5v AAA, I think that tube is for AAA size LiIon.
If I am wrong though and it will run on AAA primary keep me on the list.


----------



## FRANKVZ

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



GJW said:


> Please move me from #9 AL to #42 AL.
> Thanks


Hi Cro,
If you move GJW to #42, can you please move me from #54 to #9 as its closer to my requested #.
Thanks Frank


----------



## Darkstar

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry, but time for a new car so I ned to cancel my TiN request. Please keep me on the list for ther AL.

Thanks


----------



## M_R

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

On holidays this week, and can only get a 14 kbs connection. So I can't surf the thread, but did get the PM. Serial # unimportant, however I will only be able to afford one and not two lights. 

I'll be back on the 10th.

Cheers,

Matthew


----------



## MSI

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Hi Modamag,
I have some comments and questions to your goals with this project.



modamag said:


> *=== Goals ===*
> Here are some goals that I had for making this light.
> · Smallest and shortest production light series


 
You have without doubt met this goal :bow:
(I actually have a smaller light, i.e. the FireFli which is 7mm x 38mm, but it is not fair to compare against it since its output is almost smaller than the light  )




modamag said:


> · Durability, keychains are dropped, dip, scratch, and thrown everywhere so will the poor light so it need to be able to stand the harsh physical and chemical abuse.


 
I'm quite sure the coated titanium will handle all the abuse and wont become dented and scratched, but will the chromed aluminium handle it? I'm a master at dropping my keys at stony surfaces. I suspect the alu will dent and the chrome will chip off, but I hope I'm wrong.



modamag said:


> · Affordability, yes we can make a "perfect" EDC but if it's only for Bill Gates then it's useless. EDC is for "Every dude carries".


 
This may be the only goal you have missed, it looks like lots of people not being able to afford it, unless there is some other reason why so many people are backing out. But I'm sure many will regret not buing the $150 version (which I personally think is affordable and very fair priced when compared to other lights), and there is probably going to be a lot of WTB posts in a couple of months. When you think about it, if you skip buying those 3 average $50 lights then you can buy this great light instead.



modamag said:


> · Finally most important of all (to me) ... sex appeal ... if the light does not look nice it should be at your side.


 
From what we have seen so far it looks very nice.

Keep up the :goodjob:


----------



## idleprocess

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



jar3ds said:


> *TWO Questions:*
> 
> 1) Does the Draco have a 2.7v cutoff for the li-ion? Or do you just have to keep an eye on the output?
> 2) I assume that the Nano Charger won't overcharge the unprotected li-ion right?
> 
> Thanks!



I am quite interested to know the answer to these questions myself.


----------



## Red_Dot

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Modamag - I'm sorry, I will have to pull out. It's a very nice light and the pricing is reasonable for such a great light considering its size and function, but other recent commitments warrant that I limit my spending for the time being. Thanks.


----------



## Monolith

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Please remove me from the list. Thanks.


----------



## HenryE

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Will there be an ongoing source for a standard cell?

Thanks...

Henry


----------



## ledaholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Sorry, I must pull out.


----------



## blahblahblah

*Re: novice runtime guesstimates*



liqht said:


> not sure if this belongs in the sales thread, please move if inappropriate.
> also, if in posting this i have violated some protocol or unwritten rule, modamag, please accept my apology in advance.
> 
> i was trying to figure out runtimes for different combinations of the S bin and U bin LEDs, with the constant current and PWM drivers.
> 
> EDIT 7/3/2006 9:17 PM (by my clock) to incorporate input from chimo and goldserve. also...
> - added 2nd chart to cover AAA battery
> - added bottom end of each input level from uPIC driver
> 
> 10280 battery:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AAA battery:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NOTES:
> 
> * per chimo's suggestion, used lumileds datasheets to estimate Vf at different inputs. lumileds data is +/- 0.06 V
> * SX0H max Vf is 3.99
> * 90% efficiency assumption borrowed from modamag
> * now shows both top and bottom end of the range given by modamag for each drive level
> * maximum input from uPIC driver in burst mode reduced to 700 mA per goldserve
> * presumably, at the end of this time, the battery would be completely exhausted
> 
> thank you chimo and goldserve for the feedback! please let me know if there are other factors that need to be taken into account. i left the maximum drive level at 700 mA rather than 600 mA for now.
> 
> these are mathematical estimates only, and the real-world results will be different depending on a number of other factors. this is just ballpark.
> 
> here are the posts (mostly from modamag and cromagnet) from which i picked up the relevant information, including the basic formulas:
> 
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1421158&postcount=1
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1466293&postcount=236
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1469727&postcount=297
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/120454
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1477555&postcount=340
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1477594&postcount=341
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1479254&postcount=398
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480046&postcount=412
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480055&postcount=414
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480060&postcount=415
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480073&postcount=416
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480084&postcount=417
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1480101&postcount=418
> 
> here are links to the lumileds datasheets where i got the Vf estimates at each drive level:
> luxeon I emitter: http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS25.pdf (see page 10)
> luxeon III emitter: http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS45.PDF (see page 11)
> 
> AAA battery info from silverfox: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660



I would question the ability of the 10280 Li-ion and the AAA Alkaline to put out the burst power levels. 

However, I would have more confidence in:

AAA NiMh 1.2v at 1000mah 
and
10440 Li-ion 3.7v at 350mah (rated at 700ma constant output)

FYI: the 10440 is aaa size and is available


----------



## mohr

*Re: novice runtime guesstimates*

hi,

if possible please change TiN#20 into TiCN#20.
and i want the one with the low/high/burst mode and SxxH emitter.
regards Mohr


----------



## dash8

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I'm out sorry... I had #74 


G.


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Tony, as part of the conspiracy to drive you nuts, I also have a change. In an effort to trim expenses, I need to drop the titanium turbo head from #1 TiN.

My order now should be: 
#20 Aluminum with turbo head
#1 TiN without turbohead


----------



## liqht

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

updated the runtime chart with additional battery types suggested by blahblahblah.

i've come to the conclusion that, at these drive levels, you will get pretty much the same runtime regardless of whether you choose the SX0H or the U_0J LED. so it's probably best to make your LED choice based on the driver you prefer.


----------



## Archangel

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Any chance i can get moved to #73?


Archangel said:


> Is #73 isn't waiting to be confirmed, i'd like that one only because that's what my Spy is. No worries though. I don't care enough to fight anyone over it.


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*


----------



## dduane

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Tony and Jonathan,

Sorry I must withdraw my reservation #58. I need to stop my shopping and buying addiction for lights, gadgets and Lotus parts. I hope to still be a part of the CPF community as I appreciate the comraderie and technology. Thanks so much for your understanding and support. If my decision causes financial issues for you, I will of course follow through.
Duane


----------



## lasercrazy

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Way too rich for my blood. I'm out.


----------



## ZeissOEM2

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



modamag said:


> *ZeissOEM2: *Cute pony



Yes it is.
Thanks


----------



## diggdug13

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

I'm sorry but my home purchase no longer conveys the refigerator so I am going to have to drop out of this buy to buy a fridge. my appologies.

so please remove me from the list

Doug


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

**** Quick Unit Update ****
I've been out couple days due to family & work but the good news is that all the Aluminum battery tubes are now complete. The light engine body will be complete sometime next week.

Here's couple pictures to wet your appetite.





Row Call <--- left to right --->
McLuxIII-PD / Arc4+ / FF2 (CR123) / FF2 (CR2) / ArcLS / Exolicon / Draco / Draco (LL) / Orb-Raw / NEOCA-BL / KI / KI-B / Fenix LOP / Fenix L1P
Oh! that's fat Mag2D (Sephiroth) in the back for reference.










* Inspired by Bon Jovi


OK, now that I have your attention 
Earlier this year we (me & my wife) went to see an astrologer (it’s a big thing in Asian culture). Basically what he told me was that this year it’s very very bad for me to do any business, and I will fail in any business attempt and possibility causing serious endangerment to my life.

Trying to keep what he said in mind (although I don’t believe it) it’s better to be on the safe side than sorry.

So how is this tied up with Draco … well basically what it means is the Draco price for those who purchase thru CPF will be practically at cost.

Here’s the new price structure:

=== Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===
Draco (complete light) ... $130
Turbo head... $50
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... <$30

=== Titanium 6AL-4V (TiN / TiCN coating) ===
Draco (complete light) ... $240
Turbo head... $100
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... <$80

It would have been lower if it wasn’t for the 80% yield loss. Basically if I make 2 lights only one would be good enough for delivery.

As the project goes on the price might be even less if everything else goes smooth. Just help me pray!

OK! What’s the catch? Well it’s all pretty simple. *You have to keep the light for at least 6 months before you can sell/trade/donate it*. Yep, pre-payment penalty, just learn that from my (realestate) Loan agent. If you decide to part from it before the 6 month period, you’re responsible to repay 3x the cost at which you acquire the unit.

Fair Enough? 

A few member asked when do they need to send PP. Basically not yet, your word (signup list) is good enough to reserve the spot. I'll collect 50% fund at the 50% completion mark (ETA 3 weeks) and the remaning funds prior to delivery.


**** Private/Public Messages ****
*liqht: *Thanx for the grueling numerical analysis. GREAT JOB! :twothumbs
*Roboholic: *You have to order the battery & charger separately. To make it easy I'll order a bunch from AW and resale @ cost so it ready to run out of the box.
*Lynxis: *time frame is < 2 months for Al & < 3 months for Ti.
*MSI: *Do you currently carry a Jil on your keychain? The Al version is of the same durability. The advantage is it's smaller so less surface area for damage. :laughing:

As for the affordability, I wish I can give one out to every CPF member for free but then I have to take out a third mortgage on my house. ... hum ... Maybe the next project I'll do will be a sub $100 custom light ... wait wait wait ... I got to finish this one first. No promises.

*idleprocess: *On the 10mm PCB there's just simply not enough room for ANY electronics for the low voltage cutoff. If you take a AAA battery and compare the OD vs most surface mount IC there barely any room. It's amazing that we can achieve this much so far.

User must watch for the dimming sign and recharge. From personal testing (kids dont' do this at home) I safely shorted 2x of these cell. No sign of venting. This is probably due to the relatively low capacity of the cells.


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Hrm, I'm not too sure about this now.. no protection on the driver and no protection in the battery. It might be one hell of a small battery, but its not an explosion that I'm worry about. I just don't like the fact that the light could possibly ruin a rechargeable battery if I don't "sense" when it needs to be recharged. I really wanted this light too... I guess I'll have to sleep on it. What a bummer.


----------



## idleprocess

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



modamag said:


> *idleprocess: *On the 10mm PCB there's just simply not enough room for ANY electronics for the low voltage cutoff. If you take a AAA battery and compare the OD vs most surface mount IC there barely any room. It's amazing that we can achieve this much so far.
> 
> User must watch for the dimming sign and recharge. From personal testing (kids dont' do this at home) I safely shorted 2x of these cell. No sign of venting. This is probably due to the relatively low capacity of the cells.



Thanks for the clarification.

I'm not concerned about the cells venting or exploding - at ~180mAH x 3.7V, that's ~670mWH or <15% of a 123A, <10% of a 2000mAH li-ion cell. I plan on on buying the constant-current version so current draw should be reasonable.

Will there be some blatant cues for the user once cell voltage drops below the ~3V threshhold for li-ion operation? I'm concerned that I will be replacing the cells on a regular basis due to overdischarge if the dimming is too subtle on either high or low.

With the talk of a AAA body, I get the impression that it's a boost driver with a range of ~900mV - 4.2V.


----------



## marcspar

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Hello!

I am just re-confirming my spot #46 in aluminum. [no big head or extended tube - just one complete tiny light!]

I am going to get the cc driver and the smaller body w/out the moa.

Thanks in advance,

Marc


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Me too. Reconfirming # 26. Thanks for the pictures......._GOD IS THAT TINY !_ I don't have a problem with unprotected light or batteries, one of my faves so far has been my RAW ns's and this little beast is even smaller.

Don't pay attention to the astrologer.......one told me I'd be dead by age thirty. I've outlived that prediction by over twenty years....and the astrologer died a year after my prediction. Hmmm... maybe she misread.  

Cliff


----------



## Christoph

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

If it's not too late can I get on the backup list for an al version # is not important I would like the extras with it as well (head,aaa tube)

Chris


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: novice runtime guesstimates*

Would someone splain if it cost more to have:

PWM
Tailcap
U bin

and what those extra costs are?

And does CC denote direct drive?



blahblahblah said:


> I would question the ability of the 10280 Li-ion and the AAA Alkaline to put out the burst power levels.
> 
> However, I would have more confidence in:
> 
> AAA NiMh 1.2v at 1000mah
> and
> 10440 Li-ion 3.7v at 350mah (rated at 700ma constant output)
> 
> FYI: the 10440 is aaa size and is available



Good to know.

*$130.00 for a Draco EN complete!* I might have to start watching the drop out/availibility list. I wonder if it comes with a rolled up $20.00 bill in barrel too.


----------



## 4sevens

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

If it's not too late I would like #047



AL en
turbo head
aaa body



Hey... I just blew $10k on a 25w laser engraver.
Want me to take your engraving job?


----------



## chimo

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I would be interested in adding a AAA battery pack to my order (018). 

A question on the CC driver. Is this a buck-boost? I am asking because I see all the reference to Alkalines and NiMH cells. 

Paul


----------



## tarsier

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

if anyone backs out - I'll take one - ti and turbohead preferred


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



tarsier said:


> if anyone backs out - I'll take one - ti and turbohead preferred


I think there are still some left unreserved. See post #6 for the list.

Steve


----------



## XFlash

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Hello,
Could I add aTurbo Head, and extended rum AAA tube to my order.
#31
XFlash
Thanks


----------



## Archangel

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

I assume the AAA pack is meant for li-ion? Anyone know the mA draw a AAA alky can support without collapsing?


----------



## Datasaurusrex

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

#45 please remove the turbo head. And I'd like the lanyard attachment version (keychain attachment).

I'm a little worried about the lack of overdischarge protection. I originally asked for the Upic ver, due to desire for max brightness... but if the CC is better/safer due to the overdischarge issue than switch me. Can anybody explain that issue? Which driver is better considering lack of overdischarge protection.


----------



## tdurand

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*



tdurand said:


> Please remove my requests for Al #4 and TiCN #4
> 
> Thanks
> T


 
Hey-
Sorry I haven't checked the list in awhile. The post above removed me from the AL and TiCN lists only. I still want a TiN w/turbo and extension. It looks like I lost the #4 slot. I don't really care which number I get. Just sign me back up please. Thanks Cro.
T


----------



## frisco

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Serial deadline 07/02 Midnight]*

Hi Cro,

#49 Aluminum here. Please make mine with Lanyard Lug.

Thanks,

frisco


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*

Okay I must re-re-re-re-re-amened my order. Al Draco with both heads both boddies, The Ti Draco with both boddies only. I will need 4 batteries and two chargers. 
Thank you, Thank you for lowering the price. I know this is eating into a very small profit but now I am able to get a turbo head that I was not going to before.
Thanks Robo


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



Roboholic said:


> Al Draco with both heads *both boddies*, The Ti Draco with *both boddies* only.


I'm not aware of any choices in bodies. If more than one body is being offered can someone point me to the post it is mentioned in?
Thanks,

Steve


----------



## blahblahblah

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*



SteveStephens said:


> I'm not aware of any choices in bodies. If more than one body is being offered can someone point me to the post it is mentioned in?
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve



In post#1:

*=== Pricing ===* 
=== Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating) ===
Draco (complete light) ... $130
Turbo head... $50
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... <$30

=== Titanium 6AL-4V (TiN / TiCN coating) ===
Draco (complete light) ... $240
Turbo head... $100
Extended Battery Pack (AAA) ... <$80


----------



## SteveStephens

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Oh, thanks. I wasn't thinking of a battery pack as a body which it certainly is. I was more thinking of the non-lanyard body which is not being made.

From first post:
· 43mm L x 13mm OD * Non Lanyard version (not available!)
· 47mm L x 13mm OD * Lanyard version
· 56mm L x 21mm max OD * Turbo Head

Steve


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I'm sorry for the confusion. By "both boddies" I was referring to the extended AAA battery pack. Sorry for the confusion I caused.
Robo


----------



## Doc

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Question? I see knurling on the body and none on the head! Where is the seam? If this a twist on light I am concerned that the head beening smooth it will be to hard to turn on and off. Doc


----------



## Wong

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I keen to add the AAA body if the CC driver also run Alkalines and NiMH cells 

Cheers
Wong


----------



## Luff

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

What Wong Wrote. Me, too. :laughing:


----------



## HenryE

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

#37 - plain AL light. Need lanyard body, please.

Don't forget - I'm next in line for a Z-bin emitter...!

Thanks,

Henry


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Nope no production update this time. The shop is still pretty busy with their medical parts so we'll just sit on the sideline and wait.

In the mean while, I had some fun with the light, take a looks.






Canon A80 | Manual | ISO100 | Shutter 2"5 | Aperature F5.0 | Auto White balance
Safety first! Hands free! I believe this is the first "ear-lock" light :nana:
Feels like a Borg (Star Trek).
BTW, I've been walking around the house then patroling the backyard trying to chase after that racoon. It was like over 15 minutes till this shot.





Canon A80 | Manual | ISO100 | Shutter 1/10 | Aperature F5.0 | Auto White balance
Had to cool it downs a bit from +90F to < 70F, what better way than to give it a 5 minute bath.





Canon A80 | Manual | ISO100 | Shutter 2"5 | Aperature F5.0 | Auto White balance
Typical low power mode ~60mA





Canon A80 | Manual | ISO100 | Shutter 2"5 | Aperature F5.0 | Auto White balance
Just a little burst of power for ... ever. Need the high power to scare away that [email protected]%^ racoon.


*Doc: *The seam is hidden (under the knurling by ~0.2mm / 0.008"). From the head down, the top two knurling will provide plenty of gripping power to turn the light on/off. The only resistance to turning is the 28% (0.11mm 0.004") oring compression.


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Jonathan,

Thanks for the neat photos. If it were anybody else, I would think "now this is a person with too much time on there hands." But knowing you, I just figure you've sliced another half hour off of the 5 hrs of sleep you get every night.

Looking forward to seeing the light at lunch tomorrow... er, today.


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I couldn't sleep after seeing some Hardinge HLV-H & HLV-EM earlier today. It's amazing the little tinny innie things they make with that machine.

Since my toy budget pour into Draco, I can only think and dream of such machine for the future.


----------



## PhotonFanatic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Sorry, but I would like to withdraw my indication of interest; shown as #3 on the TiN list.


----------



## PhotonFanatic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

{deleted-duplicate}


----------



## Nomad

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

While I agree that it's probably worth it, I just can't afford the price. Unless someone wants to take pity on me and send me one. ;-)


----------



## Datasaurusrex

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

In terms of the brightest setting and runtime, how would the Draco stack up against a Millermod Arc AAA?


Will the Draco have a AAA tube (for sure)? How will it perform on a regular AAA, or a nicad?


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



Doc said:


> Question? I see knurling on the body and none on the head! Where is the seam? If this a twist on light I am concerned that the head beening smooth it will be to hard to turn on and off. Doc


 
Good question. One of the reasons I love my Fire~Fly is all the Knurling. The head knurling on FF makes one handed use very easy.
Robo


----------



## schiesz

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

The answer to the knurling question is at the bottom of Modamag's post above.

schiesz



modamag said:


> *Doc: *The seam is hidden (under the knurling by ~0.2mm / 0.008"). From the head down, the top two knurling will provide plenty of gripping power to turn the light on/off. The only resistance to turning is the 28% (0.11mm 0.004") oring compression.


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



schiesz said:


> The answer to the knurling question is at the bottom of Modamag's post above.
> 
> schiesz


Which I didn't fully understand. Went back in the thread and found one of Cromagnet's shots but couldn't find the one showing the head separate from the barell. I'm thinking the head doesn't have knurling but since all the resistance is on that tiny o ring it will be easy to turn.


----------



## Doc

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I ask this question about the knurling on the head of the light. Because thats why I end up selling lights like the ORB Raw and Raw NS as they do not work very well one handed! I still do not know if the seam is down below the first or second knurling and that would leave some for the grip on the head for twist? It would not make any sence to have all the knurling on the light body only and none on the head. Could we see a photo of the body and the head side by side? Doc


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

*List and Post #6 updated to this point. There are still a few people that need to confirm on post #6*

Quick questions:
*trivergata*, did you still want one?
*tarsier*, TiN or TiCN?
*Cliffnopus*, I think I have you on TiN and Aluminum. Please confirm as I may have added you one extra.

*There are still spaces available for Aluminum, TiCN and TIN. So jump right in and stake your claim! 

Also, those that where in and then out, in and out again, can come back IN if they want *


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

CMG, the order of production it to be the Aluminum first and then the Ti numbers following some time after....? Trying to get $ in order....


karl


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

CMG, you do have me twice, please remove the Aluminum, the Ti is what I want. By the way, could you change my serial number to # 003 from # 26 ?? If it's not too much trouble.

So to recap - that's both heads and a body in titanium (long body when avail).
Thanks, Cliff


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I believe I will have to limit my wants to the Ti and turbohead. Therefore, please do keep me on for the Ti and turbo but, remove me for the Aluminum anodized. I just realized I will have to be eating this and next month and have to limit myself. Thanks for the understanding.  


Karl


----------



## chimo

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



chimo said:


> I would be interested in adding a AAA battery pack to my order (018).
> 
> A question on the CC driver. Is this a buck-boost? I am asking because I see all the reference to Alkalines and NiMH cells.
> 
> Paul



I'm on the list for a CC version. I have a couple of questions regarding the driver.

Can you provide more details on the CC driver? Is it a buck or a buck/boost? 

In other words, can a NiMH or an Alkaline AAA work? I saw some reference to these chemistries in the post on estimated run-times but I didn't find any reference to the light accepting these chemistries from its creator.

Are both stages regulated? Is the driver the same as the CR2-ION?

Thanks,

Paul


----------



## milkyspit

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

*Some corrections to my order...*

I'm still in! I've still got serial number 097 reserved... but I am no longer interested in the turbohead... and I want the PWM circuit, not the constant current.

In addition, I'd like to order ONE MORE nickel electroless aluminum (or whatever the heck the exact term is!)... preferably serial number 090 but if that's not possible, then any serial number will do. This one will also use the PWM circuit.

Spoke with Modamag about these changes and he had no problem with them, so hopefully I've got things straight.

Many thanks!


----------



## thesurefire

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Sorry, but I need to withdrawn from my claim on number 70.


----------



## Datasaurusrex

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Yeah, I'm out too #45.


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

*Doc: *Here's the picture you've been waiting for.





*Datasaurusrex: *AAA extension option for sure will happen. It's only a matter of how many weeks after the light release.

*chimo: *The CC driver is buck/boost. I do not think it's the same chipset as the ION driver, but functionality should be the same.


----------



## chimo

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Very nice!! Great news on the Buck/Boost. I look forward to your testing!

I was a little worried about the head "grippiness" - but not now!

Love that diag knurling!

Paul


----------



## Doc

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Cool alls well you bye Draco now! I was hoping that was where the seam was good job! Thanks, Doc


----------



## AustinEd

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I'm interested. TI. cant make up my mind on which one. I cant tell which one is the better and why. Any suggestions?


----------



## AustinEd

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Do you still have some available?


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



AustinEd said:


> I'm interested. TI. cant make up my mind on which one. I cant tell which one is the better and why. Any suggestions?


Not sure which one is better as far as durability but the TiN is a golden color. You can see examples in post #6.

And yes we do have space available so pick a number that looks like it's open and post your interest in this thread.

BTW Welcome to CPF! Hope you stay a while 

T


----------



## Uriah

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I would like to add the Extended Battery Pack (AAA) to my order i'm number 
079 AA6061.
Thanks so i'm in for the whole kit.
Thanks


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Thanks for the pictures. 
Any chance you have one of the Turbo head?

I am getting one of each (ti and al) each with different types of pills. WIll the pills be removeable or glued in the head?

Robo


----------



## StanTeate

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Please put me down for one:
#59 AA6061
Ok,


I want the following:

Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating)
Draco (complete light) ... $149.99

+ Extension Tube

Optional: [email protected]@ LuxIII emitter = ideal for overdrive.
Optional: uPIC PWM (lo/hi/burst)

StanTeate


----------



## StanTeate

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

If 59 is unavailable, any number will do and if all are taken, put me on the backup list. Might switch to Ti if Al are all taken.


----------



## schiesz

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

 

schiesz


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

We're just waiting a bit here... I spoke with Modamag today and things are going well with the manufacturing. We are planning to get together next weekend and I will get some beamshot comparison pics. Also have a nice surprise pic coming. 

As for the list, I'm just letting it build up a bit. Have a look at post #6 if you want one and post here in this thread your request. We still have a few available.


----------



## HenryE

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Has anyone determined whether we can charge this cell with one of the many Li-ion chargers we all have - perhaps with a series resistor? 

Also, will this cell be single-source (AW)?

Thanks.

Henry


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

We've had these cells for a while now and charge them with the standard LiON chargers like the Nano and a few pennies or magnets.

We are trying a primary energizer L28 as well which might work. It works in my TnC Keylux N :shrug: As for the 10270, I think it's AW only at this time.


----------



## Tronic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I`m in for:

1x Aluminium Draco CC-version
1x Extended Battery Pack (AAA) 

Serial number doesn't matter


----------



## quantile

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

In anticipation of the Draco  I ordered two 10280 cells from AW and
ran a discharge curve last weekend, the cells were CC/CV charged to
4.16V:







The plots are for drains of 200 and 300mA, I wasn't brave enough to
try anything higher on that little cell :huh: 

Not too far off the rated capacity of 180 mAh, keep in mind that my
charger discharges only to 3.0V. Current is reduced automatically as
the cell cannot keep up the voltage at the end.


CroMAGnet: The L28 primary sounds interesting. I was wondering why the
CC driver was buck/boost (instead of buck only) but with a primary
cell on the horizon it makes sense to me.


----------



## idleprocess

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Trying to interpret your graphs ... at ~3V, the cell just sort of quits and can't deliver much current or is that a limitation of your equipment we're seeing? _EDIT - looks like that's the equipment._

I'd really like to know what sort of current the cell is capable of delivering once it approaches the low-voltage limit of li-ion cells. Do they start delivering less current, or do they happily continue to dump current past the limit where they can be recharged again?

I would still like a description of the constant-current driver behavior from modamag once the li-ion cell drops below 3V.


----------



## quantile

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Yes, my charger tapers off the current once the cell reaches 3.0V, I have put a marker on the graph up to where the cell could provide the full discharge current without dropping to below 3V. Unfortunately, I cannot alter this 3V mark in my charger's discharge mode.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here:
I don't think a boost circuit is beneficial to using unprotected Li-Ion cells. For the most part of its usable capacity, the cell voltage stays above the LED's Vf anyway. And when the voltage drops below the Vf and the boost circuit engages, current draw will increase causing rapid depleation of the (little) energy left in the cell. Depending on the particular boost circuit, one will have very little time to shut off the light before the cell is discharged below the safe limit (~2.5V)

A buck-only circuit would essentially go into direct drive once the cell voltage drops below the LED's Vf resulting in gradual dimming as current draw would decrease with falling voltage. Much more time to shut off the light in order to prevent damage to the Li-Ion.

Marcus


----------



## idleprocess

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



quantile said:


> Depending on the particular boost circuit, one will have very little time to shut off the light before the cell is discharged below the safe limit (~2.5V)



Indeed. It would be nice to know what the cell characteristics are below 3V - whether it can continue to deliver current or not. 

I suspect that the constant-current driver will keep going at 3V down to < 2.5V since it's intended for operation from single NiMH, alkaline, and Li-primary AAAs.

The cell characteristics will probably be the deciding factor.


----------



## quantile

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I tricked my charger into discharging the 10280 to 2.5V (by selecting the LiFPO4 mode instead of Li-Ion). Again, the cell was charged to 4.16V, discharge at 300 mA, no current tapering off this time as I pulled the cell when it hit 2.5V, within one minute it recovered to 3.6V unloaded. The cell got warm but not hot to the touch during discharge:






Marcus


----------



## idleprocess

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Interesting - looks like the cell can manage 300mA well past 2.5V. A constant-_wattage_ load would be the most telling since that's what a constant-current boost-driver tries to accomplish.

Got any info on driver behavior, modamag?


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Here are a few goodies to tide you all over for a bit. :naughty:

FYI - It looks like the lights are going to the next stage next week and Modamag will be starting a new payment thread for 50% of the funds.

NEW PICS!! enjoy 




















Where did I put that little 10280 battery? ...Oh! There it is 




























































*The farthest white chair is about 30ft from the light and camera.

I'll be doing some runtime tests of the Draco over the next couple of days and I'll also try the Primary Alkaline battery to see what we get there.*


----------



## cy

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

can believe I've missed this thread...


----------



## flashlight

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

CroMAGnet, thanks for the great pix that show the size comparison very well. The first photo made me think that you have giant hands!


----------



## Christoph

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Now I am really excited that is small.

C


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



cy said:


> can believe I've missed this thread...


We've still got some room. Just say the word


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

How about some test of Draco with CC as well?
What is the current settings of the Draco with uPic used in the beamshots.

Sigbjoern


----------



## larryk

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

If your still taking orders I would like, Aluminum 6061-T6 (Nickel Electroless plating).
Draco (complete light). 
Turbo head.
Optional: [email protected]@ LuxIII emitter = ideal for overdrive.
Optional: uPIC PWM (lo/hi/burst)
2 batteries, no charger.
Any serial # will do.


----------



## nemul

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

i wanted *Constant Current Regulation (Hi/Lo)* but after seeing them pics im not sure... lol 
any beam shots between the 2 drivers?


----------



## TENMMIKE

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

id like to change my reserved number from 50 to 15(ticn), standard package, if iv missed something and this is not feesable ill stay where im at , thanks


----------



## NetMage

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Please add me in!

Al, Turbohead, AAA pack - all standard options (CC, Sxxx, Saphire)

Awesome project,
Thanks!


----------



## pokkuhlag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Please add me for Alu, uPIC, S-bin and if possible #83 @ 130$ 

Can the user set brightness with upic, just like flupic. Or is upic limited to low -> high -> burst ?

Edit: Got extra info, that convinced me luxeon I will be safe for uPic.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



Lurveleven said:


> How about some test of Draco with CC as well?
> What is the current settings of the Draco with uPic used in the beamshots.
> 
> Sigbjoern


I'll jump in on this with a quick post.

current levels were around 50mA on low and ONLY 300mA on high which I called burst but it's not burst, it's 300mA BUT after some evaluation by Modamag he is looking like he will push it higher!! SInce there is a AAA body coming that will be able to push it even harder and since the 10280 has a bit more to squeeze it looks like it may even top out over 450mA!! Don't get too excited as I'm not technical so lt's just hold on and see what Jonathan has to say.

Thanks for all the comments everyone  I'm just updating the list in a few minutes here and Modamag is setting up a new thread for pre-payment and more detail with the timeline and specs.

I've been playing around with the Draco prototype that was left with me for the photo-op and it is suuweeeet!!  We're going on a night hike this Wednesday and I plan to test it out in the field if given the chance. Maybe I'll use it as a headlamp tucked behind my ear! 

I'll post the updated list in a few minutes.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

*Interest List updated to this point*





*Please see Post #6*​


----------



## ROK

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I would like a DRACO as belows.
- One Titanium TiCN CC version (Serial #050 please)
- One Titanium TiCN AAA Extended Pack

If it is not working with alky/NiMh AAA cell, I’ll cancel my order.

Could you add following design to DRACO? 
- Threaded cap for extended body, so it can be used for battery carrier.
- 3 Split-ring holes for balance & customer use, e.g. insert a tiny tritium vial 

Thanks


----------



## FRANKVZ

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Hi Cro, 
I requested #10 If karlthev ever released it back in post #378. For a while you had me at #9, but now I'm back at #54. I know keeping track of serial # requests is a pain but could you please move me to #10 or at least back to #9.
Thanks Frank


----------



## karlthev

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

FRANKVZ, it looks as though the list may have been updated and my name taken off the Aluminum roll. I am still in for the Ti version however.


Karlthev


----------



## Christoph

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

It looks like my name disapeared from the list I wanted an al complete CC version any number will do.

Chris


----------



## cy

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I'd like one ti draco please....

#17 plain ti please


----------



## Tronic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Hi Frank,

I will give you #9 if you can`t get #10.
I will take any number that is free.

Daniel


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

:thinking: Not Sure what happened there. It looks right to me and I'm really busy today so I'll just swap them around and add who I missed.

Modamag is doing the Prepay thread shortly and will post the numbers etc for you to verify. So That's where it will all happen anyway 

Nemul: I will be doing CC and flupic comparisons pics in a couple weeks when we get them 

Tronic: Thanks for being so flexible 

ROK: I will be trying the tiny alkaline in the light shortly, stay tuned...

FRANKVZ: Moved 

christoph: Sorry... not sure what happened. Got you back in.

cy: gotcha covered

karlthev: Please request on in the new payment thread if I missed you and you want an aluminum one too 

*any other changes not posted here please post in the NEW payment thread that is forthcoming*

Thank you


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Taking Deposit]*

First off I want to thank CroMagnet for keeping everyone updated with thing. Work schedule have really been hampering me down with little time to enjoy my hobby. Without Tony, this project would probably be dead in the water.

As of today we have reach the first major milestone. All the aluminum bodies have been machined to spec. Scrap rate is a phoenomemon. Anyone care to guess 
I spent the last weekend giving these little jewels "Simple Green" ultrasonic bath in my new toy (Crest 175HT). Yep 1 hr session each, with the max attendee per session is 13 (my magic #).

So all the parts are now ready for post processing. They will be hanging out at the electropolishing shop for a couple of days then head to a hand polishing shop.
The surface finish I'm shooting for is a #8 (mirror finish), similar to what Don did (PD) & kj (Aleph II). This surface finish is far superior to any thing else I've ever seen. Shopping around in the San Jose are there were only 2 shop capable of a #8 finish, and one of them turn down the job because the parts are "too small".
After that is finish (1-2 weeks), then the light will be ready for Chrome plating.

I made an error in the original posting regarding the plating for the Aluminum body. The Ni Electroless is only the passivation (adhesion undercoat) layer that acts as a bond btw the Aluminum body and the Chrome. *YES! the final production finish of the Draco (Al) is bright and shinny chrome.*





=== McLux (Ni Electroless), Jil DD (#4 chrome finish), PD & A2 (#8 chrome finish) ===
* finish estimated by polishing shop.
** Yep! my grass is dying. It's not because of neglect but just that dam +100F (+46C) heatwave we had.

*On a sad note the constant current solution will now have only ONE stage (350mA).* I could not get the low profile membrane to work reliably (1 month operation). There are other solution available, such as using pogo switch but since I have not yet ask the original innovator "tvodrd" for the use of such design, I will leave this as a future mod.

*As of this moment I will now ask a ~50% ($70 Aluminum, $120 Titanium) deposit for the standard Draco.* This should help cover the cost of the plating, electronics, and misc.

I know that a few of us are not online ALL the time (me included). So I will set the deposit deadline two weeks from now (08/21/06 08:00 PST). Hopefully that will give everyone enough time to checkin. After that time if the deposit is still not made, your spot will be open to the public.

*Please check the Draco Payment Thread.*

Due to the little amount of time that I have, I will not be able to sell ANY Draco in CPF other than this current round. I hope you all can understand, two little kids and one happy wife is alot of maintenance.


----------



## aosty

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



modamag said:


> *YES! the final production finish of the Draco (Al) is bright and shinny chrome.*



 





> *On a sad note the constant current solution will now have only ONE stage (350mA).* I could not get the low profile membrane to work reliably (1 month operation). There are other solution available, such as using pogo switch but since I have not yet ask the original innovator "tvodrd" for the use of such design, I will leave this as a future mod.



  nooooooooooo


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Taking Deposit]*

It's unfortunate, but that's what happens when you push against the envelop too hard.

I have another surprise for you guys which will be be announce in a week once everything is finalized. I promise it'll be something GOOD!


----------



## ouchmyfinger

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Taking Deposit]*



> I made an error in the original posting regarding the plating for the Aluminum body. The Ni Electroless is only the passivation (adhesion undercoat) layer that acts as a bond btw the Aluminum body and the Chrome. *YES! the final production finish of the Draco (Al) is bright and shinny chrome.*



[email protected]#!!
he who has the shiniest toys wins. we all know that!

can't wait. will send paypal shortly.


----------



## pcmike

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Taking Deposit]*

Nevermind, ignore me.


----------



## darmawaa

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Sign me up on #73 Al , standard head.
Thanks


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



darmawaa said:


> Sign me up on #73 Al , standard head.
> Thanks


Hi there!! Congrats... Please post your choice in the new Prepay thread with the payment. No guarantees on SN but you should be able to get it if available on the new list and you post it first. Nodamag will have the final say.

Chrome Baby!! YEAH! :rock:


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Order placed and paypal sent.

Cro, I changed from CC to Flupic

Cliff (Ti S/N 003)


----------



## Icebreak

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I'll go with the Flupic to have the variable levels. (hope I spelled that right. CPF is hosing up so i don't want to go look it up)

I see folks getting the S bin 1 watts. I thought that was supposed to be a good option for the CC. What's the advantage over a 3W U bin when used with the Flupic?


----------



## ROK

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Taking Deposit]*



modamag said:


> On a sad note the constant current solution will now have only ONE stage (350mA).
> 
> This notification made me disappointed and confused.
> Only hi-mode in CC version, run time is too short for me as an EDC light.
> Sorry, I’m going to drop out.


----------



## jeffb

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I am re-considering for the same reason.Will make up my mind, before deadline.

jeffb


----------



## AW

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I 'll go with Flupic if the CC only has 1 level. Thanks


----------



## chimo

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Regretfully, I will have to drop out as well. I'm sure I will be kicking myself later, this looks like a fantastic light.

Paul


----------



## ZeissOEM2

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Only one level.
Maybe I am doing something stupid now but-

one level with 33min is not for my edc

Sorry,but I am droping out.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



ZeissOEM2 said:


> Only one level.
> Need time to think about this.


There's plenty of time to think abut it. 

I too was dissapointed when the CC version couldn't fit a two level switch. I was going to get both the CC and FLuPIC both now will get two FluPIC versions.

At the end of the day, what's the difference? Seriously, I don't under understand. :thinking: You get light onto a subect in three different levels with a FluPIC which extends runtime quite well so what's the diff, other than the pulsing at lower levels? :shrug:


----------



## blahblahblah

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



ZeissOEM2 said:


> Only one level.
> Maybe I am doing something stupid now but-
> 
> one level with 33min is not for my edc
> 
> Sorry,but I am droping out.



I switched from CC drive to Flupic on my order. 

The Flupic does offer multiple levels. The AAA option also offers longer runtimes.


----------



## aosty

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



CroMAGnet said:


> There's plenty of time to think abut it.
> 
> I too was dissapointed when the CC version couldn't fit a two level switch. I was going to get both the CC and FLuPIC buth now will get two FluPIC versions.
> 
> At the end of the day, what's the difference? Seriously, I don't under understand. :thinking: You get light onto a subect in three different levels with a FluPIC which extends runtime quite well so what's the diff, other that the pulsing at lower levels? :shrug:




The FluPIC works great with a button but on a twisty, some think it's awkward to double/triple-twist-click... a regular ol' two-position twisty is much more user friendly, especially one-handed.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

OK That makes sense. 

It's a minor issue but the performace should be better on the FFluPIC even if the CC had two levels since the FluPIC has three it can optimize the two low ones for the 10280 and the highest third level for the 10440 even though I Plan to use the third high (burst) mode with the 10280 for short durations


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

The guys & gals around the Bay Area knows that I like to have both my cake (Russian Torte) and great icecream too.

I tried to carried such mentality to all the projects that I did. That's why I offered both the CC & FluPIC option. IMHO, the CC version offer a simple yet reliable solution while the FluPIC with it's uController provide all the other nice UI options that you'll ever want.
It would have been much easier (for me) to just pick ONE of the converter, but then it's not my style.

In term of efficiency and runtime, they are very similar since drive level is similar [ lo(80) / hi(350.) ]
2+ hrs on low
30+ mins on high

I don't think any of you is more dissapointed with the 1-stage CC than me.
If it was doable (reliably), I would have done it already.

The amount of realestate on these boards are EXTREMELY limited (11mm OD x 4mm total height, including PCB). It's amazing that these electronic gurus can achieve such feature thus far.

Here's a picture of the two different board to let everyone know what we're up against. To my short recollection no one have achieved more than 1 stage CC for a 11mm board as of today.






=== US$ Quarter ... US$ Dime ... FluPIC ... 2-stage CC converter ... Luxeon III emitter ===

The FluPIC have 3 components total while the CC have 8 components total.
BTW, those big holes you see on the board are the 32g LED connections.

*ZeissOEM2, chimo: *I totally understand your piont. Per your request I have removed you from the serial list ... that sounds weird 
*ROK: *Somehow you were nevered on the list, so no harm done.


----------



## aosty

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



modamag said:


> I don't think any of you is more dissapointed with the 1-stage CC than me.
> If it was doable (reliably), I would have done it already.



 




>




 :naughty:


----------



## ZeissOEM2

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Maybe I am old-fashion-but I prefer a easy change between two levels.
Good luck with the project.

Best regards O.Reidar


----------



## MSI

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

What version of the FluPIC will be used? If you can both customize high and low (?), then I think it will actually be easier to use than the CC version since you can have your most used level as the first level. I think those backing out will regret it.

There are a lot of open spots on the list, will you make all and try to sell the rest later (so there is a chance for those not able to afford it now), or will you reduce the number of produced items?


----------



## chimo

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



modamag said:


> *ZeissOEM2, chimo: *I totally understand your piont. Per your request I have removed you from the serial list ... that sounds weird
> *ROK: *Somehow you were nevered on the list, so no harm done.



Just wanted to clarify - I'm not dropping out because of the single stage CC. Unfortunately, I have another purchase that has to take priority or I would still be all over this one!  

Both drivers (and the whole light!) look great. I have done a bunch of FLuPIC mods - they are great drivers with a wealth of features and have an easy to learn interface. 

You have done a great job on these!

Paul


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

The 3 light setting for the FluPIC version are 80mA/350mA/Burst. What current is burst? Is it posible to have the 350mA setting or the burst setting as the default setting when you turn the light on? Will it be possible to change which setting is the default setting?

I invision my initial use will be for showing off - that is, impressing others with the awesome WOW factor of such a tiny light. After the novelty wears off, I may desire a different (more usable) default mode.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Yes good point guys. It would be nice if these worked like my Aleph FluPICs.

*I just took out the prototype and tried to change levels and low & bohold... it's and actual FluPIC with all the modes!!* 

It was in this mode here [User Set / Med / Burst / Strobe / SOS / User Set / OFF} or something like that. I set the first level from SUPER low to FULL OUT Burst! Very nice! 

:twothumbs


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



ZeissOEM2 said:


> Maybe I am old-fashion-but I prefer a easy change between two levels.
> Good luck with the project.
> 
> Best regards O.Reidar


I know what you mean. I am a great proponent of the KISS principle (Keep It Super Simple - although I like the original meaning better). I am hoping it will be as simple as AWR's Nano, on-low, med, hi. Can't get much simpler, I hate the idea of having to twidle with a light to get different levels.....hold this for six tenths of a second then turn right with your left hand over your head...  

Well, we'll see..

Cliff


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



CroMAGnet said:


> It was in this mode here [User Set / Med / Burst / Strobe / SOS / User Set / OFF} or something like that. I set the first level from SUPER low to FULL OUT Burst! Very nice!
> 
> :twothumbs



Nice, but what if I want my 1st three modes to be Burst / Med / Lo, which is in the order of frequency that they will most likely be used - at least initially.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



JimH said:


> Nice, but what if I want my 1st three modes to be Burst / Med / Lo, which is in the order of frequency that they will most likely be used - at least initially.


Jim, if it will be like this proto then it's just like your Q3 PIC that you love so much


----------



## ROK

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



CroMAGnet said:


> It's a minor issue but the performace should be better on the FFluPIC even if the CC had two levels since the FluPIC has three it can optimize the two low ones for the 10280 and the highest third level for the 10440 even though I Plan to use the third high (burst) mode with the 10280 for short durations



I know FluPIC is a great circit and no problem to use twist switch. But cannot use a primary cell. 

If Draco was a (R)CR123A or (R)CR2 base light, I would have selected a FluPIC version w/o hesitation.

Current my EDC is a Lux moded ARC AAA driven around 300mA. Its run time is about 50 min with 1000mA NiMh cell. And sometimes it's too bright. 

Still very tempted.
Cheers


----------



## Tronic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



Cro/modamag, I changed from CC to Flupic.

Thanks,
Daniel


----------



## Tronic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



CroMAGnet said:


> Yes good point guys. It would be nice if these worked like my Aleph FluPICs.
> 
> *I just took out the prototype and tried to change levels and low & bohold... it's and actual FluPIC with all the modes!!*
> 
> It was in this mode here [User Set / Med / Burst / Strobe / SOS / User Set / OFF} or something like that. I set the first level from SUPER low to FULL OUT Burst! Very nice!
> 
> :twothumbs


Maybe I have missed this.
Is this the goldserve FluPIC with *V2.2 firmware?

*


----------



## Christoph

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I'm not a FluPIC fan I'm going to have to back out.
Chris


----------



## ZeissOEM2

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



modamag said:


> *ROK: *Somehow you were nevered on the list, so no harm done.




?????????


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I'm not sure if the final light will have a full version of Goldserves FluPIC or if he's making a custom version. I'm guessing custom :shrug: We'll know pretty soon. Small beamshot party at my house tomorrow night so maybe I'll have more info then


----------



## jar3ds

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

does anyone know if the AAA extension tube will accomidate a AAA battery 46.47mm in length? If someone could confirm that that would really help me out...

also... why chrome coating? on a keychain... won't that really look bad soon? Why not HA? Thanks

Thanks! 

- Jared


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



jar3ds said:


> does anyone know if the AAA extension tube will accomidate a AAA battery 46.47mm in length? If someone could confirm that that would really help me out...
> 
> also... why chrome coating? on a keychain... won't that really look bad soon? Why not HA? Thanks
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> - Jared


All my HA EDC lights look bad from wear but my Chrome Jil looks almost new after 6-months of EDC. This chrome is even nicer than the Jil


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



jar3ds said:


> does anyone know if the AAA extension tube will accomidate a AAA battery 46.47mm in length? If someone could confirm that that would really help me out...
> 
> also... why chrome coating? on a keychain... won't that really look bad soon? Why not HA? Thanks
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> - Jared


All my HA EDC lights look bad from wear but my Chrome Jil looks almost new after 6-months of EDC. This chrome is even nicer than the Jil


----------



## Roboholic

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Cro, 
Do you know when the Ti lights will get started?
I think the Ti finnish will last even better then the chrome.
Rob


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



Roboholic said:


> Cro,
> Do you know when the Ti lights will get started?
> I think the Ti finnish will last even better then the chrome.
> Rob


Sorry Robo. Not sure, maybe Modamag can address that one. BTW send me a PM went you get that package I sent you


----------



## TENMMIKE

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

IM SORRY GUYS BUT I JUST GOT A LARGE FINE AND IT WAS SIGNIFACANTLY MORE THEN I EXPECTED,I WILL BE FORCED TO DROP OUT OF THIS KILLER LITTLE LIGHT BUY,my apologies for any inconvenience.note :if there are any lights still available in a month , i may be able to jump back in.


----------



## alauda

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I am sorry, I am going to backout as well


----------



## jar3ds

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



CroMAGnet said:


> All my HA EDC lights look bad from wear but my Chrome Jil looks almost new after 6-months of EDC. This chrome is even nicer than the Jil


 i have to say... the move to chrome i do not think is wise.... a lot of people have EDC their jil in HA NAT's on their chains and never show signs of wear...

as the Jet project points out there is a large differnce in the HA quality in lights they have reached a standard higher than that of the arc etc... 

this project was to design a edc chain light... i personally don't want a shiny keychain light... as simple as that... having a subdued light is almost always what i want... if i want a sexy light i will by a new jil intelli chrome when they're released... 

it basicly makes to me the Ti version a requirement but the price is too high for me to personally justify...

good luck with the project though!


----------



## 4sevens

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Sorry, count me out too. 

The two reasons are...

1) Dropping the two stage regulated driver
2) No HA3 nat option


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



jar3ds said:


> i have to say... the move to chrome i do not think is wise.... a lot of people have EDC their jil in HA NAT's on their chains and never show signs of wear... Hmmm has Jil Changed since the one that I carried? Mine looks very worn. Just ask the new owner Geologist.
> 
> this project was to design a edc chain light... i personally don't want a shiny keychain light... as simple as that... having a subdued light is almost always what i want... if i want a sexy light i will by a new jil intelli chrome when they're released...
> 
> it basicly makes to me the Ti version a requirement but the price is too high for me to personally justify...
> 
> good luck with the project though!


Thanks  I'll take you off the list.


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



CroMAGnet said:


> All my HA EDC lights look bad from wear but my Chrome Jil looks almost new after 6-months of EDC. This chrome is even nicer than the Jil


Not all HA III's are created equal. I have EDCed my ARC LS for years. It's been carried in my pocket and on a chain from my belt. It's been all over the world, dropped in the mud and gravel, and stepped on, and it still looks like it just came out of the box. On the other hand, I have other HA III lights that have seen very little use and already look like they've been through a war.

I'm a little leary of anything that looks too pretty to carry, no matter how tough the coating is supposed to be, although not leary enough to cause me to drop out - there will probably never be another light like this except maybe the Larry light.

I'm not sure if I'm even trying to make a point here - just expressing some thoughts.


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Some good points Jim! When the lights get the HA coating my understanding is that they penetrate into the metal but also coat it. The more coating the thicker it is. Please correct me here if that's not true as I'm not too familiar with the process. 

I have a TnC KeyLux which seems to have really thick HA which makes the light look bulky. If this is the case with HA I'm not sure that there is enough room in the design tolerances with the Draco to allow for too thick of a coating. 

The Larry light that I currently have in my possesion has wear in the anodizing too.

Depending on what kind of gathering or party that I'm at I have never impressed anyone when I pulled out my Arc AAA, including myself. Arc AAA was way too abrasive for EDC in my pocket. The knurling would rub on things and damage them. Pulling out my Chrome Jil DD usualy gets a response. Sometimes you can see the person is having a hard time to resist their desire to reach out and grab it. Plus it's also very usable. Sometimes I wished it was smaller though. Most of the time actually and I don't even carry it anymore. Too big. 

This is same with the Draco but it's even smaller and easier to EDC. Nice knurling and non abrasive. My experience with the chrome coating is that it's tough, with the Jil DD anyway. 

The light is not for everyone and a year from now they wont be easily had and there pro'ly still wont be anything as small and powerful.


----------



## nemul

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

i really like this light... but i'm goin back out.. sorry..


----------



## kiely23+

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I can´t believe... I missed this thread  

Great little light!


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Taking Deposit]*

*=== Polishing Update ===*
After four days in the shop for electropolishing and alot hand buffing this is what we got. Big Ol #8 finished. The bodies are so freaken shinny I have to wear gloves to touch them. 

See those nice little halo reflection rings in the second pictures. I just love this job!

Hopefully, our plating shop handle them with such care then it'll be perfect.













*OT:* Friends, I want to make a subtle reminder to everyone that flashlight (at least to me) is only a hobby. It's not a necessity. We can all live w/o it. When you put thing in perspective, I would rather have clean air, good food, great friends and a happy family over ANY hobby.

With that said, if you have other priority and no longer want this light, you don't have to do anything.
By the deadline, I will remove all those who no longer need the light.
It totally understandable!


Larry is EXTREMELY wise in declining the joint production that was offered to him last year. With such a high profile public project, and so many public opinion, it'll drive anyone MAD. One person would want the brightness of the Sun, while another want one that run on fusion power and last forever.
When I open up this thread and asked for public opinion I expect such. Trying to please everyone, I did! But now things getting to be rediculous.

Regardless of what happens, I will finish this project. Those who really wants one will get one. Others, well ... maybe they can get it from BST six month after the release for probably 1/3 the original price because all the original owner can't wait to get rid of them.

*JimH & CroMagnet:* Thank you for the support. But I think you might want to cheer for the other side. If less and less of these goes into circulation then what you got in your hand will become more rare. Who knows maybe in the end only 20 will go into the 18000 CPFers pool.

BTW: Chromium hardness is 60-70 Rc, while HAIII is 65-70 Rc depending on thickness. The major difference is surface friction. Chrome got much less surface friction that's why they used it on the way of Bridgeport mills. In term of cost it is much cheaper to do HAIII vs chrome.


----------



## milkyspit

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

*Modamag, *these are beautiful pieces! So long as I can pay for 'em there's no way I'm backing out! BTW, your priorities are right on, too. You've been, and continue to be, one of the good guys around here! 

:bow: :goodjob: :thumbsup:


----------



## tvodrd

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I would have paid in full night before last, but had to wait for a bank x-fer. I'm now PIF.  I needed a replacement light for the NLS that was on my keyring that I gave away. ( :nana: R-man  ) Looking forward to it!

[J/K] (mode on) Only a pimp would carry a chrome flashlight.  [/J/K] (I still love _Patton!_ )

Larry


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



tvodrd said:


> I would have paid in full night before last, but had to wait for a bank x-fer. I'm now PIF.  I needed a replacement light for the NLS that was on my keyring that I gave away. ( :nana: R-man  ) Looking forward to it!
> 
> [J/K] (mode on) Only a pimp would carry a chrome flashlight.  [/J/K] (I still love _Patton!_ )
> 
> Larry


Call me BIG DADDY


----------



## kiely23+

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Great work...
I´m in for the Al Draco, please #55 
complete 
Thanks


----------



## milkyspit

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I'm paid! I'm paid! 

Paid in full in fact! 

Bring it on, Modamag!!!


----------



## Radio

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



tvodrd said:


> I would have paid in full night before last, but had to wait for a bank x-fer. I'm now PIF.  I needed a replacement light for the NLS that was on my keyring that I gave away. ( :nana: R-man  ) Looking forward to it!
> 
> [J/K] (mode on) Only a pimp would carry a chrome flashlight.  [/J/K] (I still love _Patton!_ )
> 
> Larry




:laughing:


----------



## stevevh

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Hey guys,

I need to change my order from a Ti Draco to a HAIII Aluminum one. I had TiCn serial#5. Any new serial number is OK with me. 

Thanks,

Steve


----------



## MSI

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

steveh, there is no HAIII version, only Chrome if you want Aluminium.


----------



## HenryE

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I just discovered it's chrome-only for Al, so will back away - sorry.

#37


----------



## stevevh

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



MSI said:


> steveh, there is no HAIII version, only Chrome if you want Aluminium.



Thanks MSI,

I meant to say aluminum. Chrome plated is fine

Steve


----------



## darmawaa

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

PP for Alu#30

Thanks


----------



## GJW

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



CroMAGnet said:


> ROK: I will be trying the tiny alkaline in the light shortly, stay tuned...


----------



## NetMage

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Sad about the CC, but will live with the FluPIC. Gotta have multiple levels!


----------



## Leef

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Hey Crow, don't forget to put me in slot #67! Money's been tendered. Thanx


----------



## larryk

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

I've read thru the entire thread and can not find a photo of the Turbo Head. Did I miss it ?


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Accepting Deposit]*

*stevevh: *Preference change to Al noted.
*Leef: *Don't worry, You're on the list.
*larryk: *The first post have the CAD rendering of the Turbo head. Full production will start on them soon (~ same time as Ti).


----------



## Roger11

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Question: Does $50 for the turbo head get you the turbo light along with the regular head or just the light with the turbo head?


----------



## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



Roger11 said:


> Question: Does $50 for the turbo head get you the turbo light along with the regular head or just the light with the turbo head?


You get the Turbo head because you will already have the regular head which comes with all Dracos.


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Just to be clear, the turbo head consist of the following component.

- Fluted turbo head
- McGizmo McR-18 reflector
- 19mm saphire len
- 19mm o-ring seal
- bezel ring with some spicey sauce


----------



## Cliffnopus

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*



modamag said:


> Just to be clear, the turbo head consist of the following component.
> 
> - Fluted turbo head
> - McGizmo McR-18 reflector
> - 19mm saphire len
> - 19mm o-ring seal
> - bezel ring with some spicey sauce


Hold the fries ?

Cliff


----------



## Doc

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Modamag sent you a E-mail. Doc


----------



## JimH

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Can you make mine extra spicey


----------



## modamag

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

It's imposible to beat 
"Jim's delicious beans" ... wait wait wait ... was it
"Jim's famous spicey beans" ... well you guys in the Bay Area know what I'm talking about.


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## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

*OK! Extra spicey, coming right up! Hope you like the new pics!*


JimH is the hand model.

















And a few new stallions to the stables


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## Doc

*Re: Introducing "Draco" [Finalized Pricing Released]*

Just look at the little bugger! Nice. Doc


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## vag

Hi everybody, I'm a newbe and I'm coming in a hurry on this post ... I want the #81 but please tell me how to chose between lux I or lux III, because I don't know the difference, it sounds meanless to me ...
all I know is that I want a multiple-stage light (so the flupic, isn't it ?)

and what is the advantage of taking the AAA extension ? can it work with an AAA NiMh 1.5V battery ?

is the charger that you are selling an "intelligent" charger ?

thanks for your help, I'm afraid to miss my #81 so I'm hurry 

vag, from France


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## vag

I wished I had an answer today  thanks to SteveStevens I know where to seek for all informations that I need, but right now it's 1:00 AM and I'm not in the mood for browsing the web anymore ! so I still don't know which configuration I want ... but #81 is miiiiiiine, my preciouuus


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## CroMAGnet

Bonjour vag!! Welcome to CPF. 

Modamag will confirm your order in the Payment Thread if position 81 is available.

As far as the choice of LED. I will be testing two choices shortly. Modamag is currently in process of getting those done. So it will be soon. I look forward to doing the LUX and runtime testing for the two differen LED's.

As for the CC or FLuPIC, you will want the FluPIC for multi level because it will be set at Burst>350mA>80mA so you will get three levels there 

The AAA extender will allow you to use a bettery with better ability to handle the estimated 750mA Burst level with greater capacity.

We are still checking to see if the primary Alkaline L90 or L92 (forget the code) will work in the Draco's current configuration. I do not think a AAA NiMH will work though.

Welcome aboard!


vag said:


> Hi everybody, I'm a newbe and I'm coming in a hurry on this post ... I want the #81 but please tell me how to chose between lux I or lux III, because I don't know the difference, it sounds meanless to me ...
> all I know is that I want a multiple-stage light (so the flupic, isn't it ?)
> 
> and what is the advantage of taking the AAA extension ? can it work with an AAA NiMh 1.5V battery ?
> 
> is the charger that you are selling an "intelligent" charger ?
> 
> thanks for your help, I'm afraid to miss my #81 so I'm hurry
> 
> vag, from France


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## vag

thanks for your answers, and for your welcome !

for the lux type, I will follow the majority 

but I'm still wondering, about the AAA extension : does it let have more lumens ; or the power will be the same, but the autonomy will be extended ?


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## CroMAGnet

I would think it would have more power because the voltage sag might be less on the AAA size LiON. Plus the extra current for extended runtime.


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## modamag

**** Production Update ****

Good news everyone, we're now several components closer to the completed Draco. I have recieved the remaining Al6061 plated bodies from our shop and they are "shiny". The little package of precious reflectors from McGizmo have also arrived.

I'm still waiting for the completed light engine which should happen shortly. The last bit of news was that both PCBs (CC & PIC) finally arrived within spec and it was a tight one at that. 

Right now the major hold is the custom orings which takes 6-8 weeks to create. It have been ~3 weeks since I ordered it. I'm hoping that it will come in @ the same time the LE is completed.

The titanium run is also currently underway. We should have the completed machine parts in ~2 weeks. Keep in mind this is a Holiday weekend in the states, so practically no one is working. (Last chance for summer vacation).

Here's couple fun shots.


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## Icebreak

I thought CC was a no go?

Smooth and shiney. Had to put on my sunglasses to look at the pic.


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## JimH

Jonathan,

Someone stole your idea and beat you to the punch. Gold Draco's with diamonds are on sale at Sportsman's Guide


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## Cliffnopus

Icebreak said:


> I thought CC was a no go?
> 
> Smooth and shiney. Had to put on my sunglasses to look at the pic.


Ice, I think CC was a go but only one level, not two as first planned.

Cliff


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## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*


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## Icebreak

Thanks, Cliff.

I guess I'm all set. 

Considering all that goes into these Draco custom torches, I'm a little surprised at the price. The Ti and especially the Al are less than I thought they would be.

Thanks again for making these available, Jonathan.

CroMAGnet - 

Good updates, list keeping and photos. Thanks.

- Jeff


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## CroMAGnet

*Re: Introducing "Draco"*


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## frisco

OK Modamag...... enough Draco Porn Shots! (maybe not enough!)

Any ETA ???

Not trying to be a pain in the butt......... I just wanna hold it !!!!

frisco



modamag said:


> **** Production Update ****
> 
> Good news everyone, we're now several components closer to the completed Draco. I have recieved the remaining Al6061 plated bodies from our shop and they are "shiny". The little package of precious reflectors from McGizmo have also arrived.
> 
> I'm still waiting for the completed light engine which should happen shortly. The last bit of news was that both PCBs (CC & PIC) finally arrived within spec and it was a tight one at that.
> 
> Right now the major hold is the custom orings which takes 6-8 weeks to create. It have been ~3 weeks since I ordered it. I'm hoping that it will come in @ the same time the LE is completed.
> 
> The titanium run is also currently underway. We should have the completed machine parts in ~2 weeks. Keep in mind this is a Holiday weekend in the states, so practically no one is working. (Last chance for summer vacation).
> 
> Here's couple fun shots.


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## modamag

Well, I'm back from the last family vacation for the summer.
First order of business was to get the turbo head and extension finished. We spent the weekend in the shop trying to fine tune the head and here's what we got.





The first couple units on the left are "hack" trials. Far right picture is the final production unit.





Here it is on the body w/o any debur, polishing or coating.

As for the major Draco run. Here are some update on the couple of components were're waiting for.
1. Custom O-ring ... due sometime next week.
2. CC board ... completed thanx dat2zip
3. uPIC ... goldserve have recently relocated to the BA and will be ramping up production shortly.

Other than that enjoy.

*frisco: *You can surely hold it, but it just won't light up or even fall appart at the moment  Hang tight my friend it will be there soon.


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## Cliffnopus

MMmmmmm..... Draco Porn....Mmmm.......  

Cliff


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## CroMAGnet

Holy crap! That's sweet! I hope to hold a working model in my grubby fingers tomorrow at lunch :devil:


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## Loomy

Turbohead looks nuts for such a small light. Looks great!

PS: I've read that anodizing titanium with TiN/TiCn/etc isn't commonly done because it doesn't stick well. Other custom light builders seem to be just using straight titanium. What's the deal there?


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## blahblahblah

Loomy said:


> Turbohead looks nuts for such a small light. Looks great!
> 
> PS: I've read that anodizing titanium with TiN/TiCn/etc isn't commonly done because it doesn't stick well. Other custom light builders seem to be just using straight titanium. What's the deal there?



IIRC, TiN, TiCN, and TiAlN coatings don't stick to aluminum very well. Anodizing is different than these PVD (physical vapor deposition) coatings. You can anodize Ti as well as do PVD coatings.


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## JimH

Loomy said:


> Other custom light builders seem to be just using straight titanium. What's the deal there?



The deal is modamag is a fanatical perfectionist. Here are a few bits and pieces of info I found:

"Titanium nuts are extremely hard to manufacture, and they gall upon installation - try to find the friction coefficient of titanium on titanium some time, you'll be surprised."

"*Anti-galling Treatments*. The tendency for titanium to gall when in sliding contact with itself or with other materials can be reduced by some form of surface treatment. This is particularly desirable for bearing surfaces and for threads of bolts. Both anodizing and `Sulfinuz` treatments reduce the galling tendency, while adherent nickel and chromium deposits provide good wear resistant surfaces. Cadmium plating or the use of anti-galling paints are effective in preventing seizure of bolt threads."


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## Loomy

blahblahblah said:


> IIRC, TiN, TiCN, and TiAlN coatings don't stick to aluminum very well. Anodizing is different than these PVD (physical vapor deposition) coatings. You can anodize Ti as well as do PVD coatings.



Yeah I did some research and was told that PVD coatings can work well on titanium. But it's possible to mess up, so it has to be done well. Semi-related post: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1594474&postcount=6


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## dduane

I have held Draco in my hands. I can no longer resist. I must buy. I have relapsed. I wil never buy another light...
PP cash sent $255
subj- paid in full
cpf- dduane
order list---
1-AA6061 Draco 130
serial #= "88"
Flupic
S-bin emitter
1-turbo head 50
1-Al extn 30
4-10440 18
4-10280 18
1-Nano charger 7
1-extra O ring 2
total 255
will pick up
THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS 
:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:


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## aosty

Okay, I still want one.... may I get one with both the CC and FluPIC boards?


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## CroMAGnet

ehehheh

Here's the one that dduane held in his hands that caused the relapse. And it wasn't even the premium bin!!







The Turbo head is tiny but the reflector is huge! Goldserve told me that the Draco FluPIC Burst mode is around 500mA of Ubin glory! :devil:

dduane: Please post your payment in the payment thread. (see my sigline) 

.


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## Roboholic

Okay I give in. With all of the pictures I must now have a Turbo Head and AAA tube. Please add this to my CHROME LIGHT.


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## Dr_Joe




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## Dr_Joe

ETA ?


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## PB92

Looks good but how much light does it put out? Lumens?


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## modamag

Guys, the orings are now in.
I will start putting these things together. Hoping to get them out to you guys before Halloween.

*PB92: *light output is is more than enough to use. ~60-110 lm at the engine level depending on battery type & state.

If you're looking for the "brightest" light this is not the one.
But if you're going for the most lumen/in^3 it's hard to beat the Draco in size.


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## rscanady

Johnathon,
I know you are super busy, I sent you a PM concerning what I ordered and just wanted to make sure all is ok.


Ryan


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## Dr_Joe

modamag said:


> ... Hoping to get them out to you guys before Halloween.


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## vag

Hi everybody !
Have you tested how the draco works with an AAA 1.5V battery ?


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## Frenchyled

modamag said:


> Guys, the orings are now in.
> I will start putting these things together. Hoping to get them out to you guys before Halloween.
> 
> *PB92: *light output is is more than enough to use. ~60-110 lm at the engine level depending on battery type & state.
> 
> If you're looking for the "brightest" light this is not the one.
> But if you're going for the most lumen/in^3 it's hard to beat the Draco in size.



Nice !! Any news about the Titanium Draco and the possible delivery date ?


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## modamag

*vag: *Unfortunate the Draco can not support the 12V battery at this time. That voltage will pop the controller. I have yet to test the 1.5V but I'm suspecting that's its a no go due to the low voltage. Typically we need at least 2.4V to drive the circuit.

*Frenchyled: *Draco-Ti status is as follows. The majority of the parts are done (light engine, turbo head, AAA extension). However, There is a major hurdle to overcome. The deep battery housing's shoulder. We are currently takling the problem. There is simply not much clearance (<10.5mm) inside the body. It will take a little bit more machine time & tooling to get it right, but I think it's doable.

Here's the estimated timeline based on Al experience.

1. Finish all machine part ... Mid November
- The machinist is in Belgium since last week for 1 month due to his ill mom. He's expected to be back at the end of the month (Oct)

2. Polishing (#8 mirrored if possible) ... 2 weeks lead time.
3. Ti coating ... 3 weeks (including transit)
4. Engraving ... 1 week
4b. Light engine assembly 1 week.

It will be close to Xmas, based on my estimation.


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## JimH

I always hated waiting for Christmas. Now I hate it even more for the same reason. What a fantastic Christmas present. I should be about ready to jump out of my skin with excitement by then.


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## Frenchyled

Thank you for your quick reply Modamag 

Now, I just have to wait  But Flashaholism and delays are common ...I am waiting for surefire too since 4 month...


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## Icebreak

A little disappointing about the Ti lights but I'd rather recieve some that meets your standards than not. I think with newly designed custom builds it's almost a given that there will be a bump or two in the process...especially when the design calls for tolerances thinner than frogs hair.

That Ti Draco will show up when it shows up and I'm sure I'll like it.

Thanks for making these, modamag.


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## 4sevens

How about some pictures to tie us over


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## modamag

Well since you asked David. Here are couple quick shots.
While we're at it, let's have some fun too.

Anyone care to answer these three trivia questions.

1. Why does the LED connector wires look so odd/wierd/uneven in the picture?
2. How many drops of solder does it take to assemble one light engine?
3. How many light engine can Jonathan make in per week?

Rules: 
1. Only one guess per person.
2. No prize involve, just to have fun.






The first muffin batch ready for illumination.
The box is basically an Asian "Altoid" enclosure (2.5" x 1.5").





The LED connector wires. 26 AWG solid, Teflon coated.





Converter ready for integration.


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## 4sevens

modamag said:


> Well since you asked David. Here are couple quick shots.
> While we're at it, let's have some fun too.
> 
> Anyone care to answer these three trivia questions.
> 
> 1. Why does the LED connector wires look so odd/wierd/uneven in the picture?
> 2. How many drops of solder does it take to assemble one light engine?
> 3. How many light engine can Jonathan make in per week?
> 
> Rules:
> 1. Only one guess per person.
> 2. No prize involve, just to have fun.



1. because the led legs need to be trimmed as short as possible to prevent
it from touch in the case?
2. 19 including the contacts in your driver board? Excluding the driver 
board, 4?
3. 20?


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## Tronic

I have see that qualitychinagoods.com have a new Liion 10440 battery with 500mAh.
I have buy 2 to compare it to the cells from AW.

Below you can see the discharge curve with various current.

Test condition:
Hardware: Axcom SM-APL4
Charging: CV/CC with 0.7C (full charged if current fall below 20mA)

AW 10280 current:60mA capacity:173mAh time:172min




AW 10280 current:200mA capacity:167mAh time:49min




AW 10280 current:350mA capacity:122mAh time:21min




AW 10280 current:600mA capacity:65mAh time:7min




AW10440 current:60mA capacity:319mAh time:316min




AW10440 current:200mA capacity: 285mAh time: 85min





AW10440 current:350mA capacity:298mAh time:51min




AW10440 current:600mA capacity: 231mAh time: 23min




Ultrafire 10440 current:60mA capacity:305mAh time:304min




Ultrafire 10440 current:200mA capacity:285mAh time:85min




Ultrafire 10440 current:350mA capacity:284mAh time:48min




Ultrafire 10440 current:600mA capacity:231mAh time:23min




Note: If you click on the thumbnail to see the big picture, click on the picture again to see it in real size.


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## frisco

OK Modamag,

Just got my Draco batteries from AW....... Charged up and ready to go!

frisco


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## Uriah

Balance due paid.

$70 deposit 
$157.35 balance due
=$227.35
Paid in full.
Thanks


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## modamag

Quick update everyone.
Everything is coming together nicely. I have assembled 30+ units to date. There is only a few item in transit from Asia then I'll be ready to unleashed the Dracos to the world.

*4sevens: *Educated guess but not entirely correct.

*Tronic: *Thanx for the analysis. The data is totally applicable for the constant current regulation.

*frisco: *If you already have the batteries and can make it to the Bay Area Mod-Fest BBQ. You can pickup your unit at that time and be the first one to EDC a Draco.

*Uriah: *Thanx.


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## frisco

Wow, Modamag what a gracious offer.... 
I feel honored! 
Only bummer is I'm outta state till next week. 

Thanks, frisco


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## dduane

Jonathon, I'll come by this week to p/u the Draco and drop off the CR2 ION, if your schedule permits and you don't get food p0%$ning from the BBQ. What do you think?



modamag said:


> Quick update everyone.
> Everything is coming together nicely. I have assembled 30+ units to date. There is only a few item in transit from Asia then I'll be ready to unleashed the Dracos to the world.
> 
> *4sevens: *Educated guess but not entirely correct.
> 
> *Tronic: *Thanx for the analysis. The data is totally applicable for the constant current regulation.
> 
> *frisco: *If you already have the batteries and can make it to the Bay Area Mod-Fest BBQ. You can pickup your unit at that time and be the first one to EDC a Draco.
> 
> *Uriah: *Thanx.


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## NetMage

I'm considering changing from S-bin Lux I to U-bin Lux III - how late can we change? I'd like whichever is brighter


----------



## modamag

Guys one item arrived from accross the pond today ... yep the batteries and charger. Thank you AW :bow: . We had a chance to test the Nano AAA charger during the Bay Area Mod-Fest BBQ, it's very very good. Charging rate is 100mA. Several quick demonstration of the light light in action to the limited crowd @ Mod-Fest.

One more item left and we're ready for deployment.

*duane: *Call me when you're back in town and we'll setup a time.
*NetMage: *You can change it now. The last chance for change is the end of next week. Since that's the projected shipping date.


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## CroMAGnet

FYI - Draco is amazing at over 300 LUX and very bright!! I'm working on some comparison tests and pics along with some runtimes. This thing is TINY man!


----------



## Dr_Joe




----------



## modamag

This thread is getting way too long. Please see the continuation --> here


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## Hulajoe

I'm in... 
1x AA6061 Draco
- Serial #60
- FluPIC
- S-Bin emitter
2x Extra O-ring
2x Extra 10280 Li-Ion
Could you drop this off with Jim Hodges this weekend and he'll bring it in to work on Monday.
Thanks again
HulaJoe = joe barela


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## Roboholic

PayPal sent for Ti upgrade to Cree XRE plus 2 O-rings (10.5)

Roboholic


----------



## Secur1

Draco Cree Deposit : 95.15$

CPF Handle = Secur1
=== Order List ===
1x AA6061 Draco
- Serial #78 (or 76)
- FluPIC
- premium Cree XRE P4
1x charging spacer
2x 10280 Li-Ion
1x Nano AAA charger

Global Priority Shipping ... $6.00
AA6061 Draco Insurance ... $3.35

Total : 190.3$

PS: I hope i did the math right, i shouldn't be making purchases at 2 in the morning.... :/


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## Empath

Closed due to OP request.


----------

