# Is there a charger that charges EVERYTHING?



## guiri (Jul 9, 2008)

Or such an animal does not exist?

ANY size and ANY type battery. Either setting it manually or it should detect what you charge..


----------



## Anders (Jul 9, 2008)

Hello guiri.

No there isn't, there is some cells, lithium Ion rechargeable coin cells, these just want 0,5-1mA. I dont know any chargers that charge these type of cells and a regular 12 Volt car battery.

However, if you look at the chargers RC people use you see that these chargers charge a lot of chemistries, NiCd, Nimh, Li-*** and lead-acid batteries.

If you look at this thread you find some solutions:
*Possible new multi cell Li-Ion Universal Balanced charger setup by LuxLuthor*
or directly to this one:
*Day to Day - DN/Tenergy4P, FMA-Cellpro/HD6S and Voltcraft Balanced Sys. Charging* by Petrev

Anders


----------



## Fallingwater (Jul 9, 2008)

RC chargers can charge batteries of all chemistries (save for really antique ones such as nickel-iron), but what Anders says is true: some cells require low enough charging current that RC chargers can't charge them. My own Hyperion 5i AC/DC has a minimum charge current of 50mA for lithium and 100mA for nickel.
Then again, there are chargers far more expensive than mine (like, $600). I'd *expect* one of those to be able to charge everything on the planet, including tiny LiIons, nickel-iron bricks and silver-oxide submarine batteries, or I'd be disappointed


----------



## kirby (Jul 9, 2008)

This one?
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...html?SP_id=&osCsid=vaci0bmfbg6r7q7mkuh6gfhst7


----------



## Coop (Jul 9, 2008)

The Triton (RC charger) does pretty much everything.... NiCD, NiMH, Li-ion, Li-po (balancer sold separately) and also lead acid batteries. It has also a good number of saftyfeatures.
The Triton 2 (which is the current model) was even further improved. There are other manufacturers who make similar chargers (Duratrax comes to mind).
I've been using a Triton for a while now and so far, my experiences are very positive.


----------



## Anders (Jul 9, 2008)

Hello kirby.

No, there is a lot of chargers (hundreds) that charge more chemistries than MH-C777PLUS, it doesn't charge lead-acid, [FONT=&quot]. LiFeP04, [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]LiCoO2 (3,0 Volts).

[/FONT]Bantam BC6 is one of the RC chargers I ment, the market is exploding of RC-chargers at the moment, some of them is cheap copies made in China so beware of that before you buy your RC charger.

Anders


----------



## guiri (Jul 9, 2008)

Coop said:


> The Triton (RC charger) does pretty much everything.... NiCD, NiMH, Li-ion, Li-po (balancer sold separately) and also lead acid batteries. It has also a good number of saftyfeatures.
> The Triton 2 (which is the current model) was even further improved. There are other manufacturers who make similar chargers (Duratrax comes to mind).
> I've been using a Triton for a while now and so far, my experiences are very positive.



Coop, how do you connect a AA or CR123 to this thing? Any pics?

Oh yeah, how much is it?

Thanks

George


----------



## guiri (Jul 9, 2008)

Well, when i said all batteries, I meant all cell batteries like AA, AAA, D, C, CR123 and so on and all chemistry like Ni-Cd, Ni-Mh, Li-Ion, etc..and all voltages and so on


----------



## Ron Schroeder (Jul 9, 2008)

guiri said:


> Well, when i said all batteries, I meant all cell batteries like AA, AAA, D, C, CR123 and so on and all chemistry like Ni-Cd, Ni-Mh, Li-Ion, etc..and all voltages and so on



Except for the all voltages part, it's possable. I built a charger that will charge NiCad, NiMH, Li-Ion, LiFePo4, Li-Poly, Li Nano Phosphate, Ni-Silver, Lead Acid, AGM, Gell and even Super Caps. I am limited to a full charge voltage of 100V. Charge current limit can be controled from 10mA to 40A. It's basically a computer controlled Lab supply and load that can be programed for up to 4 stages of CV, CC, Ramp Current, Ramp Voltage with voltage, current, time and/or temperature analysis to change from one stage to another or terminate the charge. It can be programmed to just about any charge or discharge profile. I have used it from a single 50mAh button cell up to a 4,000AH Lead acid bank.

What range do you really need?

Ron


----------



## LuxLuthor (Jul 9, 2008)

Ron, when he asked me about this in PM's, I said "No" because he would also need a universal holder for all various battery types, low resistance terminals and connections that would all be coordinated with a universal charger. 

Finding something that would *both charge and HOLD xx number of cells*, and do things like balance charging of the various voltage ranges of LiPo/Li-Ion (Lithium Cobalt, Lithium Manganese, Lithium Iron/Nano Phosphate), and trickle charge NiCad, NiMH, Ni-Ag, Pb-Acid does not exist. One cell holder solution we came up with just for a balancing Li-Ion cell holder/cradle was modding this Voltcraft that is not sold in North America or Mexico. 

Obviously, if enough money was thrown into any project, you could come pretty close to accomodating most non-military, consumer type batteries....but it is really not cost effective.


----------



## Ron Schroeder (Jul 9, 2008)

guiri said:


> Well, when i said all batteries, I meant all cell batteries like AA, AAA, D, C, CR123 and so on and all chemistry like Ni-Cd, Ni-Mh, Li-Ion, etc..and all voltages and so on




Do you mean any individual CELL of any chemistry? That's easier.


----------



## James35 (Jul 9, 2008)

*clears throat* Allow me. *cracks fingers* 

In the RC car world, the most popular, most flexible, best "_bang for the buck_" charger is the Duratrax ICE (approx. $130). Click here for a video. (19MB)






It does 1 to 10 cells. NiCD, NiMH, Li-Ion, Li-Po, and I even use it for A123's. Adjustable amperage from 0.1 amps to 10.0 amps. It can also discharge and cycle. (adjustable discharge cut-off voltage )
Charge modes: Linear, Reflex, Impulse, CC/CV (Constant Current/Constant Voltage), and 4-step, and trickle
Adjustable 0-25mV peak sensitivity for NiCd and NiMHs 
10 amp motor breakin (which can also be used to power other things like LED's due to it's user selectable voltage).
Stores info for up to 10 batteries in memory

My favorite part is the built in live graph while charging/discharging. It's easy to see exactly where the battery is in the charge, and much easier to determine when it's going to end, and how it peaked, the condition of it, etc..





For a slightly better version, get the Team Checkpoint TC-1030 (approx. $180). Offers built in backlighting, up to 30 amp pulsed discharge, extra charge mode, stonger 20 amp motor breakin, delayed charging, and a few others new features.





Usually the best RC chargers don't have built in power supplies and require you to purchase a 12V-13.8V 14+ amp power supply. Nice inexpensive power supply choice is the Pyramid PSV-200.

I use my Team Checkpoint to charge everything. It's an excellent investment. If you purchase from Tower Hobbies, don't forget to use the coupons listed on their main page. If you have any questions feel free to ask. My recent flashaholic addiction is child's play compared to my RC addiction.


----------



## LEDninja (Jul 9, 2008)

And then there is this cheapie from Kaidomain.:mecry:


----------



## MattK (Jul 9, 2008)

A Cadex will charge just about anything.


----------



## guiri (Jul 10, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> And then there is this cheapie from Kaidomain.:mecry:



Alright, we're getting somewhere. First of all, could the Kai charger not be made for say 4 cells at one time?


----------



## guiri (Jul 10, 2008)

James35 said:


> *clears throat* Allow me. *cracks fingers*
> 
> In the RC car world, the most popular, most flexible, best "_bang for the buck_" charger is the Duratrax ICE (approx. $130). Click here for a video. (19MB)



James, i've seen these but I never managed to find out HOW it connects to the different cells?


----------



## guiri (Jul 10, 2008)

Ron Schroeder said:


> What range do you really need?
> 
> Ron



Ron, within limits brother. I don't mean car batteries and such. Just AA, AAA, CR123, 18650 and so on. Pretty much all that's been used around here for FLASHLIGHTS. Not the big SPOTLIGHTS and stuff.

Do you have pics of this charger?


----------



## cy (Jul 10, 2008)

RC folks take chargers seriously! 
they talk about chargers like we do flashlights...

it's well worth spending time visiting RC forums for charging information. 

a little pricey but well regarded by the RC folks are Schulze chargers. isl 6-330 d does all the chemistries I've ran across so far. software is updatable, so any new chemistries that comes along can be supported. 

regulated power supply is a Nippon America 22amp DVP-2212 
regardless of which charger you end up with. you will need a charging clamp... instructions in my sig



James35 said:


> My recent flashaholic addiction is child's play compared to my RC addiction.


----------



## Ron Schroeder (Jul 10, 2008)

guiri said:


> Ron, within limits brother. I don't mean car batteries and such. Just AA, AAA, CR123, 18650 and so on. Pretty much all that's been used around here for FLASHLIGHTS. Not the big SPOTLIGHTS and stuff.
> 
> Do you have pics of this charger?



Do You need to charge multi cell packs or just individual cells?

Pictures won't help much. It's just a cigar box sized box with connectors on the front to go to various battery holders and a power cord and control cable on the back to go to a computer running LabView.

By the way, I use a charging clamp very similar to the one in cy's signature in the previous pose for random cells. I also have various dedicated cell holders for common sizes and a few adjustable holders made from junk chargers.


----------



## Ron Schroeder (Jul 10, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> And then there is this cheapie from Kaidomain.:mecry:




That's an interesting charger. I just might buy a few just to use the housing for cell holders.


As a universal charger, it only has one cutoff for Lithium chemistry and one cutoff for Ni chemistry. So it's not very "universal".

The Lithium cutoff is not suitable for LiFePo4 or Saphion or A123. It may also not have a CV stage, just a Voltage cutoff.

It's Ni cutoff is probably not a very good method, but usable for ocasional use.


----------



## James35 (Jul 10, 2008)

guiri said:


> James, i've seen these but I never managed to find out HOW it connects to the different cells?


Yeah, this can be an inconvenience. Many people use a quick release clamp like this:






Other's modify a universal holder like this:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/160942

I use this for my individual C cells, and plan to modify it to slide more to accomodate any size cells:

http://www.duratrax.com/caraccys/dtxp4320b.jpg 
*[hotlinked image removed by moderator and replaced with link]*

This is really well made. Each of those gold pins are indivually wired and each has their own spring. Perfect contact every time. It's only $20 too.

Another option is to install a charge jack into the flashlight itself. 

Caution to those who are considering the cheapie Kaidomain charger: 

This charger can be very bad for Li-Ion cells. It clearly states that it provides constant current charge. This is bad for Li-Ion's for 2 reasons. #1, it won't provide a full charge. #2, it can overheat the cell and they can even explode if the current is too high.

Li-Ion and Li-Po's should be charged with CC/CV. What this means is, it starts the charge off with constant current until it reaches a certain voltage (Li-ion's are 3.6V in this case). Then the charge switches automatically to constant voltage (3.6v) and slowly reduces the current until there is almost no current. This fills the batteries completely, and is very gentle on them.


----------



## Anders (Jul 10, 2008)

James35 said:


> Li-Ion and Li-Po's should be charged with CC/CV. What this means is, it starts the charge off with constant current until it reaches a certain voltage (Li-ion's are 3.6V in this case). Then the charge switches automatically to constant voltage (3.6v) and slowly reduces the current until there is almost no current. This fills the batteries completely, and is very gentle on them.



I think you mean 4.2 Volt.

Anders


----------



## AlexLED (Jul 10, 2008)

Fully agree with most what's been said: get a decent RC charger, like one of those shown above. 
They can charge virtually everything you commonly find in a household, incl. your starter battery in your car. 

Here're for example the details of my orbit charger: 
INPUT: MPX-MG6 8-15VDC max.5A
OUTPUT: 4mm 0,8-21,5V / >25mA - 4A according to 1-12(14) Ni or 1-5s Lithium
POWER: 10-65W, 80W PEP
CHARGE: Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMh), Nickel Cadmium (NiCd), lead (Pb), and Lithium-Ion/ -Polymer/-Ferrophosphate-A123 batteries
DISCHARGE: > 25mA - 3A max.7W
LC-DISPLAY: 2x16 character BL
DIMENSIONS: 110 x 110 x 24 mm
SIO-INTERFACE: 3,5mm Stereo TTL
Making connection with your cells is fairly easy, with a bit of creativity. Here's my setup for AA and AAA cells:

(click on the pics to enlarge)






And for my varoius digi-cam batteries I have used the holders-only from a universal Li-Ion charger:







 

You can get those plastic holders for about 2 USD. 

Another possibility would be getting one of these cheapo chargers, rip out the electronics and directly wire the terminals to a plug:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11968

For the 18650 I could not find a decent holder, yet. I ordered the other cheapo charger from kaidomain and am going to wire the terminals directly to banana plugs as well: 

http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3163


----------



## DM51 (Jul 10, 2008)

AlexLED, please resize your pics - they are much too big. 800x800 pixels is the max permitted size.


----------



## DM51 (Jul 10, 2008)

James35, hotlinking images is not allowed. I have removed that one from your post and left a link there.


----------



## AlexLED (Jul 10, 2008)

DM51 said:


> AlexLED, please resize your pics - they are much too big. 800x800 pixels is the max permitted size.



Sorry, was not aware of that, I've just changed the size. 

Is this stated somewhere ? Didn't find that till now.


----------



## DM51 (Jul 11, 2008)

AlexLED said:


> Is this stated somewhere ?


 Here it is:



Extract from Rule #3 said:


> Images... If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels.


----------



## rizky_p (Jul 11, 2008)

RC Charger is the way to go if you need all-in-one charger that charge everything.


----------



## guiri (Jul 11, 2008)

Alright, now we're getting somewhere. Those rc chargers, it says they can do up to 10 batteries at one time. Would you just split the cables or what? Assuming your 10 batteries are identical that is and would they charge each one individually to it's potential or whatever? I've seen somewhere that says that some batteries even though the same kind can be different, hold different amount of power or need to be charged individually or something to that effect..?

George


----------



## mdocod (Jul 11, 2008)

to be honest, while RC chargers look like a good solution on paper, they are not a good solution to multi-loose-cell charging for any flashlight user as when they are talking about "pack" charging they are talking about series charging for NIMH/NICD. This is fine for a balanced pack, but is not suitable for multiple NIMH cells in different states of charge and capacity loaded into a series adapter to be charged. 

Why spend $200+ on a RC pack charger and power supply to run it when you'll only be able to charge 1 NIMH/NICD cell at a time (assuming your cells are being used in many various devices and are of different sizes, chemistries, and states of charge)...

For li-ion, many of those pack chargers have balancing capability, so in theory, you could charge multiple li-ion cells in somewhat different states of charge without too much trouble, but it would require building a custom charging "station" with slots for cells and balance taps wired up correctly.

Unless there is something I don't know about these pack chargers, (please inform me if this is the case)... I just don't see these as being a good solution for the average flashlight user.

Get a MAHA 808 and a Pila ICB and that covers most of it, if you really need LiFeP04 cell charging, they are popping up on the market left and right now.


----------



## James35 (Jul 11, 2008)

In the RC world, we charge the entire pack at the same time. So all cells would be charged together (usually in series). These chargers use Delta V peak detection for NiCD and NiMH, and CC/CV for Lithium. As a backup safety feature, they have a temperature sensor and also an adjustable max capacity. 

However, even though these sweet RC chargers have so many features, the programming was designed to detect only one Delta V peak at a time. Which mean you can charge one cell, or one pack of similar cells at a time. So believe it or not, these cheap universal chargers out perform the RC chargers in that aspect. (There is one RC charger, Futaba CDR-5000 that has 6 indivdual chargers built into one pakage, but it's been known to have problems)

And you are correct about batteries being different. Let's say you bought 3 identical Accupower 10,000 mAh D cells, from the same place, at the same time There are 2 factors that can cause the batteries to vary slightly. 

The first is capacity. The variation in the manufacturing process can cause cells to have more than it's rated capacity. Now let's say you charge all 3 simultaneously using a charging jack that you've added to your flash host. 1 cell has a capacity of 10,000 mAh , but the other two have 10,500 mAh. As the charge progresses near the end, the first cell is full, but the other 2 keep taking a charge. The first cell voltage peaks, starts dropping a little, and starts to overheat. Meanwhile, the other 2 are still taking not topped off. The charger can't detect the Delta Peak because the drop in voltage from the first cell isn't enough to trigger the delta peak detection. So now your first cell has overheated a little, and lost a little capacity for it's next time.

The second variation is the IR (internal resistance). Let's say all 3 cells were identical 10,000 mAH. But one of them has lower IR than the other. So as it sits for days, weeks, or months, it's dropping it's charge faster than the other cells. No big deal, until you charge. Since the other cells retained their charge better, they don't need as much of a charge. So you can see how IR can cause an imbalance over time.

Now usually, these are slight variations, and you can get away with charging multiple cells as a pack in series, as long as you equalize them occasionally (individually charge them).

As an RC racer, we equalize our 4 cell racing packs often. The best racers equalize them every charge! We use an equalizing tray like this one (different than a dumb discharge tray). An equalizing tray discharges each cell down to a specified voltage (usually 0.9V). The equalizing tray gives us excellent info on each cell, like capacity that was left in it, plus IR. Then we charge the whole pack together right before we race.

For individual loose standard sized cells, universal chargers are better for convenience. When you want that charger that can charge anything with excellent feedback and safety, an RC charger is the ticket. I use my RC charger to charge RC race packs, transmitter packs, revive old NiCDs, cellphone batteries, camera batteries, electric squirrel-proof bird feeder (yes, it's motorized and spins the squirrel around in circles until they fling off), electric weed wacker packs, cordless drills, etc.. you name it.


----------



## Mr Happy (Jul 11, 2008)

It's worth mentioning that another safe way to charge a series NiMH pack is to charge it at 0.1 C for 12-14 hours on a timer. This will automatically balance the pack and no cell will get too hot.


----------



## mdocod (Jul 11, 2008)

As James35 said, (and I agree with 100%), even a cheap multi-bay smart-charger will have much better charge terminate on a per cell basis than an expensive RC pack charger hooked up to a bunch of random cells in series. 

Why spend $200 on a charger that you have to use a 14 hour charge setting on to safely charge groupings of dis-similar cells, when you can go to a garage sale and pick up a half a dozen wall-wart transformers (of different voltages) for $0.25 ea and achieve the same thing.


----------



## Mr Happy (Jul 11, 2008)

mdocod said:


> As James35 said, (and I agree with 100%), even a cheap multi-bay smart-charger will have much better charge terminate on a per cell basis than an expensive RC pack charger hooked up to a bunch of random cells in series.


True, that. :thumbsup:


----------



## Wattnot (Jul 11, 2008)

While I was at first going to jump in here and say +1 to the Triton and other RC chargers (I'm an RC-er too), I believe mdocod and others have made some excellent points. 

The Triton and others like it are great but if your batteries are not assembled and used in a formed "pack," it gets difficult to impossible to use one of those chargers. The other down side is that virutally none of the good RC chargers plug straight into the wall. You need a power supply. 

So you could buy a power supply and fabricate some of your own holders but then there is the balance issue. So now, after reading some and thinking about the excellent advice above, you should list what it is you need to charge and we can see if we can come up with an "a-la-carte" solution that could actually be cheaper than the premium "do it all" RC charger when it's all said and done. 

For instance . . . those RC chargers for lithium are geared toward lithium POLYMER. Of course they can do lithium ion but why not get a WF-139 for 16 bucks and you have lithium ions covered.

Then you can buy a good 4 channel nimh/nicad charger for probably less than $40 and have all AA and AAA nimh and nicads covered. 

Still need more? Power cube wall chargers do fine for lead acid batteries if the battery you have didn't already come with one. 

If I wasn't already an RC-er, I would do what I'm suggesting you do now.

So tell us what you need to charge and even include some future scenarios and I'm sure we can help you!


----------



## OldNick (Jul 11, 2008)

I agree with the idea of a multi-channel charger for general use. A series charger will damage different-value or charge level cells in series.

However, the one downside is that although they claim a (say) 1000mA charge current, if you charge multiple cells at once, the current will be shared. That is my experience, and such as the MAHA 800 series do not look big enough to carry 8000mA shared current.

There is nothing to actually stop you from using an RC pack charger to charge one cell at a time, or any combination that you know are very close, because they have been used in a pack. They all get the full charge current. The convenience of the multi channel ones is that you do not have to keep swapping cells to charge multiple singles.

Nick


----------



## LuxLuthor (Jul 12, 2008)

guiri, you are now starting to read some of the additional responses to see why I said "no" in pm's when you first asked about one charger being able to charge everything as your topic title asked.

If you are only going to charge 1 single cell at a time, then it is not hard to come up with a solution. However, it is just not that simple once you get into all of the various flashlight needs. Even making sure you can get low enough mA charging for small 123a cells, yet powerful enough to charge SubC, C, & D cells is not simple. Many posts in this thread have not taken everything into account when recommending a specific charger.

I have at least 30 different battery chargers that I have accumulated over the years, including a number of RC "Hobby" chargers. Once you start looking at the many scenarios that CPF users require, there is not one that will work that I have found or heard about. Realistically, after upgrading, I now only use 5-6 of the better chargers I have.

Assuming you get a quality RC charger that has a wide variety of cell chemistries, you now need to buy a separate 12V power supply. Yes there are ones like the eStation BC-6 that has a low power transformer, but it has limitations.

When I discovered I needed a charger to charge my 12 cell NiMH pack, I needed a new charger. Again, when I need to charge a 24 NiMH SubC cell pack, yet another high cell # charger and a higher 22 Amp 12V power supply was needed. Then there were the various Lithium Ion cells--more chargers; new Lithium chemistries, more new chargers. 

Then multiple Ni & Li-Ion cells that I needed to balance &/or condition charge for safety &/or optimal performance & longevity, now I needed balance plug harnesses, adapters, and cradles to hold them all...which led to the Voltcraft cradle mod....only that did not fit the new A123/Emoli multiple 26700 size cells, more mods, more cables, more adapters, even including neodymium magnets to make contacts or to bridge 25+ NiMH cells charged in series which I do every week.

I now have everything I need to be able to do every type of charging that I actually use just for my flashlights. Is it all in one package, or could I even imagine it all being in one package, knowing what I know about all the variety of needs? I go back to my original answer "No."


----------



## SilverFox (Jul 12, 2008)

Hello Eric,

It took me a little while to figure out my Schulze charger, but since then I have had no problems charging single cells, multiple cells, or battery packs. While my charger is capable of charging 36 cells at a time, my maximum has only been 15 individual cells.

I think a good quality RC charger is well worth the money spent on it. My charger charges cells fuller and with less heat generated during the charge than any other charger I have tested.

Keep in mind that your battery powered device is only as good as the batteries that power it, and the batteries are only as good as the chargers ability to charge them. 

It is my opinion that not only does the RC charger look good on paper, but they actually perform better than expected.

Tom


----------



## cy (Jul 12, 2008)

+1 on Schultz's ability to pack a charge... when Silver first told me about how Schulz packs a better charge. 

I thought what's the difference? now that I've used the Schulz charger for a bit. I can see the performance difference as compared to say a Triton. 

a tactic to bring cells back to life to to charge at .1C, until voltage comes up enough to switch to normal charge rates. Schulz was able to bring back a number of cells Triton couldn't charge. 

what I have not done is use schulz's PC interface. I like charging... but not that much 

another major reason is Schultz's documentation. gotta be one of the worst written technical manual ever! once you do figure out the features... it's actually easy. but getting over the hump left me cussing..


----------



## mdocod (Jul 12, 2008)

Hi Tom,

My point should be elaborated on slightly to "illustrate" what I am trying to say.

I don't doubt that the schulze is worth every penny for the applications it was designed for, but allow me to provide a circumstance:

I'm about to call it a night, I have a AAA size NIMH cell that is partially discharged from a 1xAAA flashlight, and I'd like to top it off; I have 2 D size NIMH cells that are nearly completely drained, also need topping off; I also have a AA size NIMH cell from another EDC that i'd like to top off but I have no clue what state of charge it is in.

Is there any way to "hook" these up to a schulze such that when I wake up tomorrow, they are all charged correctly? at the same time?

I have always been under the impression that the "balancing" taps on such a charger are for li-ion packs, in this case, I don't *think* they can be used to individually monitor a NIMH cell, but maybe I'm wrong on that.

Is there a way to hook up all these cells simultaneously to the schulze and "set-it-and-forget-it" until later on? That would result in each cell being monitored individually?

I know that with most "pack" style chargers, you would wire these all up in series, either the charger would terminate after a short time when the AAA cell was done, or would continue, and fry the AAA cell while it finished of the AA, then proceed to fry the AA cell while the Ds finished off. 

is this assumption correct?

Eric


----------



## LuxLuthor (Jul 12, 2008)

I also believe Schulze are the best RC/Hobby chargers I have heard of, and their high price ($300 to $700) reflects their quality....but recommending the best charger is not answering the whole picture of what it sounded like guiri was looking for. 

Mdocod, you are correct in most of your assumptions. None of the chargers can do most of what you raised automatically in your last post. Balance chargers are for Lithium packs. If you have a charger like the Tenergy/DN that has 4 separate chargers built into one, it is only for 3.7V Lithium cells/packs. To do a wide variety of low and high mAh NiMH cells like you mentioned, you would need completely separate charging channels, leads, temp probes, etc.

No charger includes a complete package that has everything needed included either. Some Schultze models have output limits, others have limited number of Li-Ion/LiPo cell balance charging setups included. *None of them have a beefy separate power supply or a wide variety of cell/pack holders.*

You would need a number of additional components to make a charger package do everything, and be able to interface with the wide variety of LiPo pack connectors and other cell types, packs, connectors, etc. 

It would need to include all components to hold and charge Li-Ion free cells, cells in a pack, LiPo packs, have all the individual probes to monitor temps of multiple cells, have holders with low resistance connections and wires. 

There are many little parts and details that some of us have hobbled together from homemade charging clamps, to magnets, to separate 15 hour countdown timers, conditioning/cycle setups, etc. that are not included in any known charger as a complete package. 

I know I'm harping on all these other details and parts, but he is starting from scratch and said he was asking for someone to design and build something that does everything, and has everything included, and in one total charger package. I just don't want him to be misled by people rooting for their favorite charger brand, as there is still a lot of other components he would need....and I don't believe it can all be put into one package the way he is hoping....especially when you consider the examples mdocod just mentioned.


----------



## zband (Jul 12, 2008)

I too have sought a solution to being able to charge different types of batteries with one charger. The closest I have came to such a solution is a MAHA 777 plus II. Sure it charges Li-ion/nicad/Nmh batteries but here is its downfall - it charges them too fast, building up too much heat in the process. The electronics inside seem to get hot somehow disabling the shut off function to a trickle. Perhaps I got a lemon, or I need to do some cutting to provide it with some additional cooling...

I really dont understand why someone cant come up with a computer controlled solution. My firewire port provides 12V and up to 28W of power: a simple FW plug that is mated to 2 alligator clips should be able to provide the hookup to the battery and let the software provided the control ! This way I could set the parameters for charging and the computer can plot its process too. It would be too easy right?


----------



## SilverFox (Jul 12, 2008)

Hello Eric,

Is that all you can throw at me...  Here I thought you were going to come up with something difficult...  

First of all we need to pay attention to what LuxLuthor posted. A RC charger is like a lathe, in that once you pick up the basic "box" you need to add in some "accessories" before you are able to actually do something with it. Some people end up with more dollars invested in their "accessories" than they have in their lathe. I don't think this is the usual case with a charger, but some consideration needs to be made for the accessories needed to make the charger work in a particular application.

OK, back to your "illustration..."

I actually run into this type of scenario all the time. I can't have everything ready to go in the morning, but I can get close.

First of all you need to understand that the Schulze is a 2 channel charger. To take care of your charging needs, I would:

Charge the AAA cell on channel 2, and charge the D cells in series on channel 1. In the morning they would all be ready to go.

That leaves the AA cell. First thing in the morning, I would hook up the AA cell on channel 1. I can adjust the charging rate so that by the time I have showered, had some coffee and a bite to eat, it will be ready to go.

The accessories needed to do this are 2 sets of charging leads, 2 charging clamps, and a section of plastic or cardboard tubing to hold the D cells in series while in the clamp.

Tom


----------



## mdocod (Jul 12, 2008)

Howdy Tom,

I didn't realize that the schulze had 2 separate charging channels. that changes EVERTHING!, MUAHAH, or I guess it just makes it like owning 2 really good pack chargers. Which like you have illustrated, if utilized correctly, should do the trick for most situations. 

So when dealing with individual NIMH cells of different capacities and states of charge, a schulze could be looked at as a 2 bay Cadillac NIMH charger. 

I suppose the thought on how you charge flashlight batteries would just have to change a bit. You'd have to think in terms of charging the cells that came out of a device as a pack all the time (which probably isn't a bad idea anyways) in order to maximize the use of the available channels and such. So say you have a 4AA flashlight and a 2x18650 flashlight, charge the 4AA on one channel in series, and take the 18650s out and either wire em series with balance tap or wire em parallel and top em off together on the second channel. If you always followed this rule of thumb, then you can always be charging 2 "devices" at once. So whenever those devices contain more than 2 cells each, the pack charging of the schulze is "beating" a 4 bay regular charger in usefulness. If you are topping up cells for 2 1 cell flashlights, and having to wait for them to finish up to do some more, then only getting that 1 cell done on each channel at a time might make seem like a waste of an expensive charger. 

I'm not meaning to come across like I'm trying to beat up on schulze or anything. This conversation is helping illustrate exactly what needs to be said about a charger like a schulze when it and other RC pack chargers are brought up in conversation about chargers that can charge "anything." The facts are all beginning to emerge and paint the complete picture of the benefits and pitfalls of such a charger as it applies to use with loose cells of various sizes and states.

Eric


----------



## SilverFox (Jul 12, 2008)

Hello Eric,

The charger that I have has limited channel 2 capability. In the RC world, channel 1 is used to charge the power packs and channel 2 is used to charge the transmitter packs. My charger is more like having a channel and a half, but you can charge 2 separate things at once.

The new Schulze NextGeneration series chargers are true 2 channel chargers with a lot more capability on channel 2 than I have. I believe the Next 6.30-5 can charge 6 NiMh (or 3 Li-Ion) cells on channel 2 at a charging rate up to 3 amps. While still a little limited, it is very capable of handling smaller charging jobs.

The next step in multi cell charging with a pack charger is to try to charge multiple cells that are at about the same state of charge. This is where the ZTS tester comes into play. If you can group NiMh or NiCd cells using the ZTS tester, you can usually charge them all at once in series without problems. If your cells are in roughly the same state of health, they will charge up very nicely. This is one of my main reasons I recycle crap cells rather than "endure" using them with special charge and use conditions. My cells are in very good condition, and I have no problem charging them in series strings. 

As you have indicated, you have to think about what you are trying to do, but once you understand the capabilities of the charger you can try to set things up to get the maximum use from it. I will be the first to admit that it takes some trial and error, but once the capabilities are understood, you can do a lot of charging in a short amount of time, and do so without doing damage to your cells or packs.

Tom


----------



## LuxLuthor (Jul 12, 2008)

_Edit: Some (but not all) of my questions were answered in your last post which was made after I posted this._

Tom, there is so little written about the German made Schultze, that only an owner would be able to adequately represent it. I believe you have an older model with features that is no longer sold, so I was hoping to discuss the current models.

There is not a wide discussion or listing of the various features of the various Schultze models (other than "S" numbers and maximum Amps) at websites like I linked in my previous post. Do these current models all have 2 or more independant charging channels?

When you do NiMH 0.1C conditioning charging, is there a built in automatic timer that stops at 15 hours? What about wanting to discharge to a certain level (0.9V), then wait 2 hours, then do a 15 hour 0.1C condition charge, wait 2 hours, then discharge again, then do a 1C charge? How many temp probes does it have for individual cells during 2 channel charging? Do both channels allow balance tap charging of say...A123 Nano LiFePO4 & LiPo? Or charge balance lead LiPo & say 15s NiMH 2/3A Elite cell packs?

Assuming you somehow get an adequate holding solution, can each charging channel work on higher amp draw cell(s), say with a pack of 24 Elite SubC 5000mAh cells, and simultaneously balance tap charging a 6s Lipo AirThunder 5,000mAh, with temp probe monitoring? I'm intentionally talking about some high watt & cell count scenarios, but I believe the Schultze has some charging amps & watt output limits.

I am asking some of these questions because even with all the chargers I have, I am still thinking about buying a high end Schultze, but it is hard to find thorough feature comparisons and/or product reviews because they are out of reach for most RC users.


----------



## SilverFox (Jul 12, 2008)

Hello LuxLuthor,

All of the Schulze NextGeneration chargers have 2 channels. Balancing for Li-Ion, Li-Po, and Li-Fe cells is limited to channel 1. The number of cells that you can charge and balance depends on the model of charger you choose.

For example the Next 10.36 is available with either 8 or 12 cell balancing and about 240 watts of charging or discharging capability when powering the charger with a battery. If you are using a power supply, the discharging is limited to 100 watts. All of this is for channel 1. Channel 2 is limited to 60 watts.

Temperature monitoring is available for both channel 1 and 2.

I believe you have to terminate the 0.1C charge on total charge capacity. I don't think it has a 16 hour time option. Also, you have to manually discharge afterward. They do have an auto charge/discharge mode, but the charge needs to be completed within 3 hours, or the unit times out. The maximum number of charge/discharge cycles is 5.

There would be no problems charging either your 24 cell NiMh pack or our 6S Li-Po pack on channel 1, however channel 2 is limited to 6 NiMh cells or 3 Li-Po cells. The maximum charging rate on channel 2 is 3 amps.

Channel 1 is capable of charging up to 36 NiMh cells or up to a 14S Li-Po pack, at a maximum charge rate of 10 amps. Of course the higher voltage the pack the lower the maximum charge rate available keeping in mind the 240 watt constraint.

This is a great charger, but it still has some limitations.

Tom


----------



## LuxLuthor (Jul 12, 2008)

Yeah, that is a pretty good set of features. Trying to make sense out of the different models from a link like this which uses the "Same As Above" is insane. 

Even this link to Schultze's site with various charts is extremely confusing. Notice in the first chart it has trickle for Ni-Cad, but says "No" for any other cell type (NiMH) ???

Apparently in that first link there is a high end model that apparently has a 3rd channel.


----------



## SilverFox (Jul 13, 2008)

Hello LuxLuthor,

Once you have made it through a previous instruction manual and lived with a Schulze charger for a year or more, it gets easier to decipher their new offerings...  

My charger also has a sort of "trickle" charging for only NiCd cells. It is not much of a trickle charge, but it does apply a burst of current every so often. I don't think Schulze thinks that a trickle charge is needed after it has supplied its "complete" charge.

Those who use Li-Po packs will find the Schulze balancer very refreshing. Most balancers bleed off capacity from the cell that has the highest charge through a resistor. Schulze has chosen instead to add additional charge to the lower capacity cells. It can boost the charging current to those cells by up to 1 amp. This results in a slightly shorter charge time.

It will be interesting to see what is in store with the Next 20 series charger.

Tom


----------



## cy (Jul 13, 2008)

very true words... which you'll probably not understand until you wade thru Schulz's technical manuals a bit. 

my guess is the manuals are first written in German, then translated. 
so what made perfect sense in German, in English doesn't quite have the same meaning. 

once you do figure out how features work. Schultz is pretty intuitive to use. 

here's a thread talking about one of the new Schultz
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=177379



SilverFox said:


> Once you have made it through a previous instruction manual and lived with a Schulze charger for a year or more, it gets easier to decipher their new offerings...


----------



## guiri (Jul 13, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> guiri, you are now starting to read some of the additional responses to see why I said "no" in pm's when you first asked about one charger being able to charge everything as your topic title asked.
> I go back to my original answer "No."



Well, I did have in mind to charge maybe FOUR cells at one time. 12 to 24 cells IS a lot and I never even thought of doing that so I'm guessing from what I've read that the answer for fewer cells MIGHT be a yes then...to be continued I guess


----------



## guiri (Jul 13, 2008)

Wattnot said:


> So tell us what you need to charge and even include some future scenarios and I'm sure we can help you!



Well, it was a very loosely formulated question and I really don't know much about this stuff but after hanging out here I keep seeing all these different batteries and I was wondering how many chargers I would need to cover them all assuming of course I ever did buy those batteries.
Also, I was referring to mostly single cells up to d size perhaps and not more than 4 at the time so as not to go crazy..

George


----------



## LuxLuthor (Jul 14, 2008)

George, if you pretty much only need single cells at a time, and maybe up to 4, then I would give you a different answer of "absolutely, yes" it can be done. There are loads of chargers that can handle that pretty completely, now all you need is a Voltcraft type of cradle setup for balance charging & holding various types of cells....oh and maybe a way to test multiple heat probes also.....lol!

I probably started out a couple years ago just like you...only using a few batteries, and previous rechargeables was only AA NiMH or NiCad. However, in about the last two years my NEEDS have grown for all the types of batteries we have been discussing.

If I could start over at day one arrival at CPF, knowing what I know now....I would probably buy the most expensive Schultze and at least a 20Amp 14V power supply, and would be money ahead.

However, it is still awful handy to use the Pila IBC charger (I bought 3 of them @ 2 cells each) for most single Li-Ion cells, the MaHa C9000 for NiMH AA's, and the Tenergy/DN 1 to 4 cell charger hooked up to the Voltcraft cradle mod I linked earlier.


----------



## etc (Jul 14, 2008)

Where do you plug in the cells? It looks like they stay external?




James35 said:


> In the RC car world, the most popular, most flexible, best "_bang for the buck_" charger is the Duratrax ICE (approx. $130). Click here for a video. (19MB)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SilverFox (Jul 14, 2008)

Hello Etc,

I think the video shows it pretty well...

Tom


----------



## MattK (Jul 14, 2008)

No one liked my Cadex answer, eh? :naughty:


----------



## cy (Jul 15, 2008)

which model cadex?... can't find it on your site. 



MattK said:


> No one liked my Cadex answer, eh? :naughty:


----------



## MattK (Jul 15, 2008)

I was mostly joking CY. A Cadex is a 4 channel battery charger/analazyzer that can charge almost any battery type at highly programmable charge rates, has temp sensors, programmable discharge rates, refresh algorthims, etc... 

We don't sell Cadex's but we have a C7000 and a C7400. New Cadex's cost $2-4K for a bare unit though I have noticed a lot of C7000's on eBay lately for really cheap - they used to go for $1000-1500 used but there's been a glut on the market for the past 6 months and prices are now consistenly under $500 without adapters.


----------



## cy (Jul 15, 2008)

ok... thanks... had never heard of a consumer cadex model..

here's a link to one on ebay for $310, but no adapters
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cadex-C7000-1-b...ryZ97136QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

just spoke with cadex support, seems it will need one adapter per bay/channel to make operational. 

07-110-0115 is $85 for the smart cable per channel
must have firmware v 3.3 or upgrade kit is $100



MattK said:


> I was mostly joking CY. A Cadex is a 4 channel battery charger/analazyzer that can charge almost any battery type at highly programmable charge rates, has temp sensors, programmable discharge rates, refresh algorthims, etc...
> 
> We don't sell Cadex's but we have a C7000 and a C7400. New Cadex's cost $2-4K for a bare unit though I have noticed a lot of C7000's on eBay lately for really cheap - they used to go for $1000-1500 used but there's been a glut on the market for the past 6 months and prices are now consistenly under $500 without adapters.


----------



## MattK (Jul 15, 2008)

We use the smart cables on our machine - they're the best option for those testing/analyzing a wide variet of cell types. We usually use ours in conjunction with plastic battery holders for common cell types, with clamp style holders for larger cells and custom jugs for specialty packs...oh and lots of wire/alligator clips, duct tape (kidding) etc as needed. 4 channels of charges/discharges (pretty much) anything goodness.


----------



## cy (Jul 16, 2008)

$310 for ebay cadex, then add 4x $85 (smart cable) = $340 + $100 firmware for a total of $750 + shipping to get all 4 channels working. 

our $310 bargain quickly evaporates... :green:


----------



## mdocod (Jul 16, 2008)

when you start considering the cost of a fancy setup that revolves around one very nice charger, you start to realize, that a whole bunch of dedicated multi-channel "slot-load" style chargers could be purchased for loose cell charging, getting the job done for less expense, less hassle, and plenty of decent features.


----------



## VanIsleDSM (Jul 16, 2008)

I agree,

That's the idea behind the charger that I've made.. or are in the process of making, still waiting for the order of springs to get in. Many bays with decent charge current, all individually controlled. Better than charging in series, and cheaper too.


----------



## guiri (Jul 16, 2008)

Crap! All of a sudden, the idea of a multi charger just doesn't seem that attractive


----------



## cy (Jul 16, 2008)

still maintain it's way better to start off with a RC quality charger. 

having first gone the other method of purchasing multiple chargers for different tasks. what I ended up with is a sack full of chargers.... 

then after spending $$$ on above chargers. ended up spending $$$ yet again for a Triton. one year later, easily sold the Triton and upgraded to Schultz. 

sooo... if I had to do it again... I'd gone with a RC quality charger to begin with. 

if you cannot justify a hobby charger now. consider only going with quality self contain chargers like Pila ($37) come time to upgrade, it'd be easy to sell. vs you'd have a much harder time getting your $$ back from cheap chinese chargers.


----------



## Tronic (Jul 17, 2008)

If you want charge various chemistry's or sizes of cells you may consider something like the Axcom SMAPL4.
With this unit you have 4 independent charger in 1 housing.

We use two of these in our company to charge and test various batteries.
The model that we use have a very limited charge/discharge current. (1.3A max per channel. 2.2A max overall) 
But it have 4 pair of Banana connector:


----------



## BVH (Jul 17, 2008)

If I knew then (when I first found CPF) what I know now, I'd have bought a Schulze right up front. I had all kinds of separate, small chargers, then I bought a Triton, Maha 808, a couple of the BC's and a couple of the Maha 4-cell (9000?) then a TritonII now the Schulze 10-36.12. Granted, the Schulze it is a sizable investment to make all at once, but look what I've spent on all the others, and the Schulze. Should have bought it up front.

I picked up a low ripple Mastech 30 Volt-50 Amp PS so I have adequate power to the charger and for powering other DC loads around the garage. I would have liked to buy the yet-to-be-released Schulze 20.....something but it appeared to be coming out towards the end of the year and I didn't want to wait. When the Schulze 20... something comes out, I'll probably upgrade. 

I haven't had a lot of time to use the Schulze but I say that as you use it, the manual makes more sense than when trying to understand it without having a charger.


----------



## TMorita (Jul 18, 2008)

I have two Orbit Microlader Pros from doing R/C helicopters.

They run about $300, but they'll do 1-32 Nicad/NiMH cells or 12s lipo at up to 8 amps.

More info here:

http://www.orbitronic.de/

Toshi


----------



## Meterman (Jul 19, 2008)

TMorita said:


> I have two Orbit Microlader Pros from doing R/C helicopters.
> . . . .
> 
> More info here:
> ...



For flashlight use I'd recommend the smaller but way more than sufficient model "*Pocketlader*", which I operate with a small wall wart of 12V/2A.

Unfortunately not even the german description is up to date (the device is much more elaborated in the meantime); the out-of-date english desription simply tells you only a fraction of the actual possibilyties. For example: LiFePo4, which is pretty well integrated, is not even mentioned there. They put much more power into the development of the device than into the marketing.

Wulf


----------



## AlexLED (Jul 19, 2008)

Meterman said:


> For flashlight use I'd recommend the smaller but way more than sufficient model "*Pocketlader*", which I operate with a small wall wart of 12V/2A.
> 
> Unfortunately not even the german description is up to date (the device is much more elaborated in the meantime); the out-of-date english desription simply tells you only a fraction of the actual possibilyties. For example: LiFePo4, which is pretty well integrated, is not even mentioned there. They put much more power into the development of the device than into the marketing.
> 
> Wulf



+1 :thumbsup:


----------



## donn_ (Mar 13, 2009)

This is a great thread, and a discussion worthy of revival.

I agree with the comments about the fact there is no single charger which will satisfy all flashlight needs. In this respect, the RC crowd has a edge on us. They've simplified their lives by limiting the number of different cell/options their devices use. We've gone the other direction.

I'm about to pop for my first good RC-style charger, and probably a 1KW bench supply to power it as well. I think I've narrowed my choices to a dual-channel charger, so it'll either be a Hyperion or a Schulze.

FWIW, I found this website to be an invaluable aid in my research. They have similar comparison charts on batteries, power supplies and other goodies as well.

So I think I know what I'll do about the charger, but the Holy Grail of how to hold the loose cells while charging them still baffles me, particularly for balancing charges.

It seems the trick to the RC chargers is to make the cells look like a serial pack, complete with balancing taps.

I'll bring this thread back up with just one question for the experts:

Is it possible to use magnet-connected balance taps in a long serial string of cells? Let's say I go with the Hyperion. Each channel will handle a 6S string, or the two can be linked to handle a 12S string. Can I successfully charge 12x A123s or other Li-Ions in a long string, with the balance leads connected to the cells with magnets?


----------



## Turbo Guy (Mar 13, 2009)

With loose cells it is really easier to charge them in parallel that way balancing is not an issue. Just make sure they are all the same type of cells and at approx. the same state of charge.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10710831&postcount=1


----------



## guiri (Mar 14, 2009)

I agree that we have too many damn batteries. I though once that I would buy a certain amount of each just to be ready but I found it daunting with so many SIMILAR batteries and yet different 

George


----------



## SilverFox (Mar 14, 2009)

Hello Donn,

Yes, it is possible to make a series string of cells using magnets. However, chargers are sensitive to the resistance of the battery pack, and magnets add resistance. The Schulze charger, in particular, is sensitive to this.

Tom


----------



## donn_ (Mar 14, 2009)

Turbo...very interesting setup in that link!

Tom...isn't there resistance in any recharging cell holder system? What about all the copper in the rig linked above?


----------



## SilverFox (Mar 14, 2009)

Hello Donn,

I believe there is far less resistance in the copper set up than there would be with magnets...

Tom


----------



## donn_ (Mar 14, 2009)

Interesting. 

So with a parallel rig, like in the link, holding 6xA123s, the charger would see a single cell with massive capacity (13.8aH). Throwing 10A at it wouldn't even be 1C.


----------



## Turbo Guy (Mar 14, 2009)

donn_ said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So with a parallel rig, like in the link, holding 6xA123s, the charger would see a single cell with massive capacity (13.8aH). Throwing 10A at it wouldn't even be 1C.


Correct and every cell will be exactly the same voltage so no balancing leads ,circuits needed. Charge rate and time is really only limited by the chargers max. output in most cases. True A123 System 2300 mAh cells can be charged at 30 amps.+ so 6 in parallel could be charged with up to 180 amps. in theory but would not be a great idea. Up to 3 amps. per cell or so would be a good rate and provide a one hour charge approx.. If 10A is your chargers max. the a two hour charge is not bad for flashlight cells , I guess. I fly electric RC aircraft and routinely charge A123s in 6 to 14 minutes depending on the number of cells in series and charger(s) being used.


----------



## donn_ (Mar 14, 2009)

You wouldn't even need a charger. Just a Mastech HY5020E will do it.


----------



## donn_ (Mar 14, 2009)

I'm having a brainstorm. I think I may have the holder figured out.

I need a kind soul to show me, graphically, how to wire this shape for series, with balancing taps.







It'll hold anything from M cells down to button cells.


----------



## Turbo Guy (Mar 14, 2009)

Here you go.

http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/_lipo.html


----------



## donn_ (Mar 15, 2009)

Excellent! Simple enough for even me to understand. :thanks:

Next question: Is there a reference source online which lays out the energy handling capabilities of the various gauges of hook-up wire?


----------



## travelinman (Mar 15, 2009)

Ok...just found this thread and am very interested. My needs are comparatively simple. *4 individual channels, can charge AA or AAA or RCR123 (both 3.0v and or 3.6v), light weight, international capacity (100 - 240v, 50 - 60 hz.) *

Right now I use a Maha 401fsb for travelling (AA, AAA only with slow switch). It's light and small and easy on cells. I allow all my cells to perk overnight after a full charge. 

I have gotten into cpf and now have an interest in (r)cr123 powered lights.

Zband....No you didn't get a lemmon 777, they all get hot and they don't do individual cells very well either. I've used one (borrowed) and wasn't impressed at all.

I use a Lacross 700 for my "at home" charger/conditioner, setup on a large heat sink, with a 12v computer power supply fan running at 7v to keep it cool, and never let it charge "hard".


----------



## Turbo Guy (Mar 15, 2009)

Yes there is but that depends so much on the application,max. amps. for how long,length of wiring,etc.
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

I fly electric RC and in general I use 20 ga, for up to 10 amps.,12 ga.up to 60 amps. and 10ga. up to 100 amps. I only use super flex high strand count with silicon insulation.


----------



## Shsesc (Mar 16, 2009)

I'm on a budget, is there anything wrong with buying a surge protection strip and plugging all my chargers into that and mounting them on something? Definitely cheaper and probably more effective for simple use. Plus I could charge my AAs and 18650s at the same time.


----------

