# How useful is the strike bezel?



## bdws1975 (Jul 5, 2008)

I got a surefire E2D defender today and was wondering how well the strike bezel really works?

If you did strike someone or thing, would it shatter the lens or are they designed to take impact?

I don't plan to smack anyone with it, but was wondering if it's advisable to do so?

thank you,
brett


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## Tempest UK (Jul 5, 2008)

I have no idea, but I would imagine that in a situation where you are forced to resort to using your flashlight to defend yourself, whether or not the lens survives would be the least of your worries. 

Regards,
Tempest


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## adamlau (Jul 5, 2008)

The lens will shatter if impacted with enough force. The bezel is useful in that it serves as an indicator by allowing visible light to escape from the bezel when the light is turned on (by accident, or on purpose) and placed faced down. Use the strike bezel for its intended purpose only when necessary and after consulting with your local laws regarding the use of deadly, or incapacitating force.


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## bdws1975 (Jul 5, 2008)

very wise answer. I do not plan to ever use it, but who ever really does??

I imagine using a light for self-defense would be more legally advisable than using a knife or gun.

anyway, thanks for your answers guys.

brett


Tempest UK said:


> I have no idea, but I would imagine that in a situation where you are forced to resort to using your flashlight to defend yourself, whether or not the lens survives would be the least of your worries.
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest


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## Illum (Jul 5, 2008)

its very efficient at tearing pant pockets if you EDC it regularly
its can chip its own paint very easily even with normal use
it scares people [especially my boss] in some places
the domed Pyrex is one of most durable windows I have seen for any flashlight, because of its domed nature the strike bezel is used to keep the flashlight from tipping over if stored face down.

If you have any doubts on the pyrex glass, read this
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2323074&postcount=1


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## bdws1975 (Jul 5, 2008)

thanks for that. I can definitely see how it could tear pockets, etc.

Brett


Illum_the_nation said:


> its very efficient at tearing pant pockets if you EDC it regularly
> its can chip its own paint very easily even with normal use
> it scares people [especially my boss] in some places
> the domed Pyrex is one of most durable windows I have seen for any flashlight, because of its domed nature the strike bezel is used to keep the flashlight from tipping over if stored face down.
> ...


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## FlashSpyJ (Jul 5, 2008)

One of my friend are a security guard at pubs etc. He always carry a SF M3 at work and he told me that the teeth on the bezel are nice for pushing away people when they get to close to you. Just put the teeth of the bezel in the chest on the person and push, it usually hurts enough to get the person to understand he/she shouldnt get so close.
So you dont always have to swing your light with great force to get use for the teeth.

My personal feeling about the teeth are that they might be good for personal defense use, and for rescue use like smashing windows. For regular light use or EDC I think im better of with a lightly crenelated bezel or a regular bezel that dont tear up your pockets. And since Im usually always carry a leatherman that I think should work nicely smashing windows i dont need a light to smash a window...But as we say in Sweden "the taste is like the but...devided...(meaning the cheeks)"


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## enLIGHTenment (Jul 5, 2008)

The main weapons use for sharpened bezels in untrained hands is to allow people with weapons fantasies to brag about them in bars and on the Internet.


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## lctorana (Jul 5, 2008)

I had a light with a strike bezel once, but I've since filed the head down flat.

Never let it be said that I carry any sort of weapon. And my pockets thank me.


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## KeyGrip (Jul 5, 2008)

enLIGHTenment said:


> The main weapons use for sharpened bezels in untrained hands is to allow people with weapons fantasies to brag about them in bars and on the Internet.



Sadly I think there's a lot of truth here. In the right hands, most flashlights can be used effectively as "strike tools" or what have you. I'm slightly concerned that one mall ninja with a pointy light will make all of us look bad, but that's just because I come from a knife collecting background and we have to deal with irresponsible people too frequently.


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## half-watt (Jul 5, 2008)

enLIGHTenment said:


> The main weapons use for sharpened bezels in untrained hands is to allow people with weapons fantasies to brag about them in bars and on the Internet.



+1. 

besides strikes which may get one in hot water with the LAW (it may after all be considered to be a weapon), a use, in trained hands, for a light w/a strike bezel is in control of an opponent. 

there are several joint locking and control techniques which can be employed with the strike bezel to either take an opponent down (Nikkajo/Nikajo, as it is termed in Daito-ryu Aiki-jutsu, aka Nikkyo/Nikyo, in other schools, being one of the simpler examples of such), or to control one that has already been placed on the ground. of course, these techniques, plus others, are also performed with something like a kubotan.

like all weapons, when used by an untrained individual, they may find a superior opponent may disarm them and then use the weapon on them. bummer, for the untrained "good guy".


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## DieselTech (Jul 5, 2008)

I've EDC'd my E2D every day for about two and a half years. Always in a pocket, in everything from jeans to those light uniform pants. I've yet to have any pockets damaged. 

As for the strike bezel, it's great for nicking up hardwood or even concrete floors, depending on how hard the light is dropped. Between the strike bezel and tailcap, it also makes the light about 3/8 on an inch longer than a normal E2E, I think. Don't quote me on the measurement, but it's somewhere close to that. 

I wouldn't buy the light or carry it just because it's pointy. In my opinion, I doubt that in the average person's hand, a couple of points on a light will make much of a difference in a life or death situation.


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## NA8 (Jul 5, 2008)

That ain't a stike bezel, 

this is a stike bezel

http://www.militaryfightingknives.com/collection/f119.jpg

Hope these simple designs become legal again one of these days.


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## SilentK (Jul 5, 2008)

ha, look at NA8's post count! {1,337} i have heard it works fairly well as a last resort. just one rule that you must follow. NEVER take on someone with your light unless you have better means of defending yourself than just a flashlight. so dont take on a dude with a knife when all you have is a flashlight.


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## bdws1975 (Jul 5, 2008)

wow, I think there are definitely some strong opinions on the subject here. Like I said, I have no intention of EVER striking anyone with my flashlight. I was mainly interested to see what kind of real application it has and if the actual apparatus is strong enough to be used to strike something. Not asking for techniques or mall ninja trolling. I've collected and carried knives for most of my life and so understand the nuances of EDC'ing a weapon.

Anyway, seems like I opened a can of worms here. Sorry.

brett


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## paulr (Jul 6, 2008)

I read on another thread that the pointy bezel as impact weapon is a pure mall ninja invention. The original purpose of the pointy bezel was so you could push it up against a suspect to keep him from moving while you patted him down or handcuffed him. The points on the bezel were not to poke the person, they were just to catch on the person's clothes so that the bezel would not slide under pressure. The light was not supposed to be a weapon at all. That's what your baton and/or firearm are for.


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## Aluminous (Jul 6, 2008)

bdws1975 said:


> I was mainly interested to see what kind of real application it has and if the actual apparatus is strong enough to be used to strike something.



FWIW, I have seen people say that Surefire does repair/replace SF flashlights if damaged in 'strike bezel' usage, so they are pretty confident in it being strong enough.


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## stitch_paradox (Jul 6, 2008)

very useful for meat tenderizing.


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## astrogrub (Jul 6, 2008)

bdws1975 said:


> I got a surefire E2D defender today and was wondering how well the strike bezel really works?



I like 'em a lot and have 'em on all my lights where its also an aftermarket option. Don't know how well they work on people but they work really well for itchy insect bites.


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## NA8 (Jul 6, 2008)

bdws1975 said:


> Anyway, seems like I opened a can of worms here. Sorry.
> brett



We're just messing with you.

When you've been here a month or two you'll notice this topic comes up about every three or four weeks. In fact if you do a google search at the top of the page, you'll see tons of previous replies.

Here's a fun one: 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/189310


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## Solscud007 (Jul 6, 2008)

NA8 said:


> We're just messing with you.
> 
> When you've been here a month or two you'll notice this topic comes up about every three or four weeks. In fact if you do a google search at the top of the page, you'll see tons of previous replies.
> 
> ...




Funny story. but I have a gladius and it doesnt have a strike bezel. I looked at night-ops.com website and I didnt see a strike bezel for the gladius. am I missing something?


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## bdws1975 (Jul 6, 2008)

thanks NA8. I was worried I'd someone crossed some undefined yet present line..

brett


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## artec540 (Jul 6, 2008)

Tempest UK said:


> I have no idea, but I would imagine that in a situation where you are forced to resort to using your flashlight to defend yourself, whether or not the lens survives would be the least of your worries.
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest



Agree, but I think any protruding bezel would be equally effective as a strike weapon, whether it's crenelated or not. If it were ground sharp or serrated, that might be different. 

I'd like to have a bit of a protrusion of the bezel beyond the lens just as protection for the glass and gaps forming the crenelations would be useful to remind you that the light was on and for cooling.


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## Patriot (Jul 6, 2008)

paulr said:


> I read on another thread that the pointy bezel as impact weapon is a pure mall ninja invention. The original purpose of the pointy bezel was so you could push it up against a suspect to keep him from moving while you patted him down or handcuffed him. The points on the bezel were not to poke the person, they were just to catch on the person's clothes so that the bezel would not slide under pressure. The light was not supposed to be a weapon at all. That's what your baton and/or firearm are for.




This really caught my attention and interest because it seems to me that Surefire did at one time, or possibly still does, promote the light as an impact device. In the case of the 6PD and others, they even refer to it as an "impact bezel." From my point of view, if a company like Surefire can find the value of the strike bezel design, then I don't feel that the usefulness only exists in the imagination of a ninja wantabe. This is only natural since any hard object held firmly in the hand could be used to apply greater force than our bodies without a tool. I would be surprised to hear anyone well schooled in self defense actually say, "well this is just for pushing or snagging...not for striking." If the situation calls for a strike then I'm sure the strike bezel design would perform admirably.


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## enLIGHTenment (Jul 6, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> From my point of view, if a company like Surefire can find the value of the strike bezel design, then I don't feel that the usefulness only exists in the imagination of a ninja wantabe.



"I read it in advertising copy therefore it must be true!" 

Marketers will say anything if they believe it will help them sell more product.


Sharpened bezels may have some weapons value in trained hands. Not being trained I wouldn't know one way or the other. In untrained hands, however, a sharp bezel is so awkward to wield that I can't see it having much use whatsoever.


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## cyberspyder (Jul 6, 2008)

It's not very useful, as it's considered a weapon. One of Jeff's (Alpha Innovations) kubotans is probably better, as it looks inconspicuous. The sharp bevels of the bezel makes it harder to inflict a massive amount of pain, as it is piercing the skin, not massively bruising it. That's why almost all knuckle dusters are blunt.

Brendan


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## StandardBattery (Jul 6, 2008)

_"*How useful is the strike bezel?* "_

Obviously how often you need to strike must be considered. :shrug:


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## signal 13 (Jul 6, 2008)

My dept. won't allow us to use flashlights as offensive weapons...but I heard from an officer in another dept. that a strike bezel is pretty effective when pressed into a soft fleshy spot, say the neck/behind the ear, and then twisted. I tried it lightly on myself and whoa, it would hurt if you had to do it to a bad guy.


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## outersquare (Jul 6, 2008)

if you live in a free state, get a ccw


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## kramer5150 (Jul 6, 2008)

I could see it being very useful for a well (properly) trained LEO. If an assailant(s) is able to neutralize your firearm hand to hand, you've got a sharp metal object in your free hand, perfectly positioned to strike. I would think there could also be an element of surprise, if the attacker is not expecting a flashlight to house a sharp edge.


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## merry-itp (Jul 7, 2008)

In my opinion,the bezel looks very cool and also can protect youself in an emergency.


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## ninjaboigt (Jul 8, 2008)

LOL man some people hate strike bezels, some people love them...

I use to think the strike bezel would be a good defenseive tool, but my mind has changed about it. i wish i bought a plain E2E, but then again, the tail cap donest have the protective thingy like the E2d, so either way, the E2d use to be my edc, now its the p3d, so no strike bezel on that.

next on my buy list is the TK10, which has a " strike bezel' ? looks like it to me...but i want it maily for the lumens + better throw over my p3d. 

im also intrested nitecore extreme which has a strike bezel...i know, for some more extra money i can get it with out the strike bezel...but some reason i always pick the lights with the strike bezel...i donno


BTW i have an E2D, and it has not torn up any of my jeans, or other clothing, 

Im sure a reg bezel will hurt like heck also, strike bezel maybe more, but not nessesary IMHO, besides i dont perfer to have any one's blood on me.

but the question still stands... TO strike or NOT to strike,


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## Illum (Jul 8, 2008)

I think the scalloped bezel surefire made settles a compromise

E2D's protective tailcap? are you referring to that enlarged area that prevents the light from engaging in the holster and enables the light to stand up?

well hey, contact Rothrandir, he might have a solution


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## half-watt (Jul 8, 2008)

ninjaboigt said:


> but the question still stands... TO strike or NOT to strike,




one far wiser than i put it this way:

Avoid rather than check.
Check rather than harm.
Harm rather than maim.
Maim rather than kill.
For every life is precious, 
neither can any be replaced.

-- Master Po (to young Kwai Chang Caine aka "Grasshopper")


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## Shawn L (Jul 8, 2008)

I'm looking to upgrade my SF 6PL with a Strike Bezel were can I get a good one?


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## PayBack (Jul 8, 2008)

enLIGHTenment said:


> The main weapons use for sharpened bezels in untrained hands is to allow people with weapons fantasies to brag about them in bars and on the Internet.



+4 or 5 or whatever we're up to 

I'm no expert but do have about 10 years martial arts training and would not bother with the bezel. A flashlight is not held correctly for thrusting and you lose too much reach using it in a hammer fist fashion. I prefer to keep my weapon (hands, feet, knees whatever) between me and the opponent, and a hammer fist give them too much chance to step inside your strike, or block it (or hit first). Though it MIGHT be handy if the attacker takes you to the ground and is an experienced ground fighter.

Regarding using the light like a Kubotan for wrist locking etc, you don't actually need a bezel to do that? Half-Watt can possibly verify this as I'm not trained in them. Only Bo-Staff, Shoto-Gun and Pi-Stol 

Oh and of course they make the light longer and uglier. :thumbsdow


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## CM (Jul 9, 2008)

enLIGHTenment said:


> The main weapons use for sharpened bezels in untrained hands is to allow people with weapons fantasies to brag about them in bars and on the Internet.



Yes, and it gives untrained people a false sense of security. Like any weapon, it's useless unless the operator is competent with it. I honestly think that these strike bezels with aggressive "crenalations" (who made up that stupid word anyway?) are a bad idea gone haywire. Someone's gonna f**k up with one and the rest of us are going to end up paying for it. Flame suit on...


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## half-watt (Jul 9, 2008)

PayBack said:


> Regarding using the light like a Kubotan for wrist locking etc, you don't actually need a bezel to do that? Half-Watt can possibly verify this as I'm not trained in them. Only Bo-Staff, Shoto-Gun and Pi-Stol :thumbsdow



right you are. a smooth bezel can be quite effective also.

any hard object (hence a kubotan, or a piece of wood dowling) is quite useful. in fact, these smaller diameter objects (as compared to a flashlight) allow for even more variety in their use. for example, yonkajo - more painful with even just a ball-point pen properly held and applied to the radial nerve just above, and inside, the wrist joint. 

oh,...and Shoto-Gun, very clever, and...

isn't that technically called Pi-Stol-jutsu? like the old saying goes, don't bring a ball-point pen, wood dowel, kubotan, or flashlight (even one w/a strike bezel) to a "gun fight".

IMO, the first word of Master Po's quote in Post #34 in this Thread still applies for non-LEO's like myself, who, unlike LEO's, are not req'd to put themselves in harms way.


[NOTE: for any who are interested, if not, don't read on...

yonkajo attacks one of several points on the lung meridian/radial nerve, depending on one's grip on the wrist; please note, overtraining will affect uke's breathing for two or three days (trust me on this one, as the old Scotsman would say, "it's better felt than telt") until the inflammation around the radial nerve subsides; do *NOT* attempt w/o personal instruction; in extreme cases damage to nerve may greatly affect one's breathing, requiring professional medical att'n; note that point of the technique is to induce pain and uke's predictable reactions to painful stimulus and thus to lead to better control, i.e. get uke's mind off his attacking intentions and onto source of pain (in this particular case, the psychological aspect of, not the physical aspect of, the phrase "the mind leads the body"), and thus get uke up and onto his/her toes (one typical rxn in an attempt to escape the pain) and off-balance (no balance; no strength to resist), then, optionally using elbow control take uke to the ground, and then pin and effect submission/arrest, though one very skilled who has mastered yonkajo can perform all facets, including take-down and submission with just the initial grab on the wrist. to illustrate, there is the famous story of Robert Kennedy meeting founder of Yoshinkan Aikido, viz. Shioda Sensei, who, with Ueshiba O-Sensei's permission, preserved and perpetuated the more combative techniques of Daito-Ryu Aiki-jutsu. Kennedy had two bodyguards, Olympic Decathalete Rafer Johnson and retired Pro Football player 325lb Rosie Grier. after witnessing a demonstration fr/Shioda Sensei, Kennedy asked if these techniques are really effective and asked if Grier could "attack" the diminutive 108lb Shioda Sensei. when Grier grabbed both of Shioda Sensei's wrists - one in each hand, yonkajo, which can be used to thwart other attacks as well, was applied and Grier, though literally weighing 3x more than Shioda Sensei and far, far stronger physically, was immediately taken to the ground and held there while Shioda Sensei conversed with Kennedy until Kennedy asked for Grier to be released. yonkajo is difficult for some to learn, while others seem to pick it up rather easily].


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## half-watt (Jul 9, 2008)

CM said:


> Yes, and it gives untrained people a false sense of security.



+1. 

the only benefit to a false sense of security, *IF* there is one, is that one may NOT appear (by showing obvious signs of fear/nervousness/etc.) to be an easy mark, and so is, hopefully, passed over by a would be mugger/assailant, in search of easier appearing prey. 

of course, if that "false sense" causes one to discard common sense and take a walk on the truly wild side armed w/only their trusty strike bezel'd 50-bajillion lumen flashlight, then there is no real upside, only a greater downside. 

[Note: the preceding is my opinion only and in no way reflects the position of this Board and its Moderators and Administrators - except maybe just coincidentally.] 

hmm..., i wonder can the photonic energy in 50-bajillion lumens incinerate a person in a fraction of a second? after all, the light is faster than the bezel.

hmm...this sounds like a job for Milky!!! i'm "sure" he's gonna' get right on building this one!

for even just one time use, can a pair of RCR LI-ion cells handle the current requirements to produce 50-bajillion lumens? maybe SilverFox knows the answer to this question?


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## climberkid (Jul 9, 2008)

Thanks Half-Watt! :thumbsup: that was very interesting. I am interested in learning more about all of that. Looks like some reading is in order.


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## chmsam (Jul 9, 2008)

In a situation where you cannot avoid conflict (which is _always_ the better option), without training, practice, and commitment, you are toast. No two ways about it. Know this as well, in the best of circumstances you should expect to be injured and suffer pain. If you are not prepared for this your concentration loss will give the edge to the other guy.

If you do not know how, are not able to do so without having to think about it, and are not very willing to defend yourself and inflict pain or worse upon an assailant, make sure your insurance papers and your will are in order, because at the very least you are about to be badly hurt. Even a gun in the hands of an untrained, unpracticed, and unwilling defender is often going to result in a very bad outcome. There are a lot of tombstones out there with the name Mr. Macho on them -- almost as many as with the name Mr. DoGooder.

Skip the strike bezel. Learn how to best react and deal with the "what-if's" as they pertain to what your abilities and willingness can do. Learning to be aware of your surroundings at all times is probably a whole lot better, easier, and safer for everyone. Being the fastest person on the planet to dial 911 can do a lot more good than trying to be an action hero.


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## half-watt (Jul 9, 2008)

+1 press and hold "1" on my cell and 911 is automagically called.


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## houtex (Jul 9, 2008)

I've have used a flashlight in a self-defense situation many times over the years with much success. Not running up behind someone and hitting them in the head but a straight confrontation.
This is a story about A GUY I KNOW who not too long ago was leaving his job. He saw a waitress he kinda knew from a bar next door standing by here car talking to 2 guys. SO HE TELLS ME as he looks away he hears her scream. When he looks back,she's on her back. She's struggling with one guy for her purse and the other guy is standing above her kicking her. My buddy runs over there,as he runs up he pulls his TK10 and lights them up to let them know he's coming. It works cause the first guy stops kicking her and takes an offensive stance. Before my buddy can really say anything Badguy 1 throws a punch,it misses and my bud lands a right,left, then hammer strike with the TK to the forehead of BG1.BG1 out cold. My bud turns to his left only to be hit in the side of the face by BG2. It's obvious Bg2 knows how to fight a little. My bud blast BG2 in the face with TK steps forward and to the left,left jab,right cross, Bg2 goes down but not out. A couple of kicks to the face and BG2 is felling it. Wouldn't you know it a cop just happens on the scene. Both Bg's get taken. And after details are hammered out cop takes info on where to buy Tk10. Turns out later one Bg was wanted for sexual assualt.
No strike bezels aren't for everyone but CAN help.
Any similarities to any persons in this STORY are purely coincidental.
I at first hesitated about telling this story, I don't want someone to think a flashlight is the tool to carry for self defense,it's not.
Get trained ,be aware ,not scared and above all avoid situations if you can.
I can already feel the heat of the flames.


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## half-watt (Jul 9, 2008)

houtex said:


> ...after details are hammered out cop takes info on where to by (sic) Tk10...



glad to see the officer had his priorities straight 

hope this doesn't now turn into which brand flashlight can knock someone out better - Fenix or Surefire. [Note: this is intended to be a purely humorous comment; we need to laugh at ourselves sometimes]


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## LumenMan (Jul 10, 2008)

half-watt said:


> glad to see the officer had his priorities straight
> 
> hope this doesn't now turn into which brand flashlight can knock someone out better - Fenix or Surefire. [Note: this is intended to be a purely humorous comment; we need to laugh at ourselves sometimes]


 

O.K. then. Does this mean that I'm better off with a Fenix P1D instead of a Surefire M6 Guardian to "subdue" a rowdy individual ? :shakehead:hahaha::whoopin:


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## SureAddicted (Jul 10, 2008)

bdws1975 said:


> I got a surefire E2D defender today and was wondering how well the strike bezel really works?
> 
> If you did strike someone or thing, would it shatter the lens or are they designed to take impact?
> 
> ...



Well theres only one way to find out really. Grab the E2D in your hand and jab it on your leg hard. Once you've done that come back onto this thread and post your results.

Steve


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## climberkid (Jul 10, 2008)

LumenMan said:


> O.K. then. Does this mean that I'm better off with a Fenix P1D instead of a Surefire M6 Guardian to "subdue" a rowdy individual ? :shakehead:hahaha::whoopin:


more like a L2D.....


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## Patriot (Jul 10, 2008)

PayBack said:


> and a hammer fist give them too much chance to step inside your strike, or block it (or hit first). Though it MIGHT be handy if the attacker takes you to the ground and is an experienced ground fighter.
> 
> Oh and of course they make the light longer and uglier. :thumbsdow




It depends on so many factors though including what's in your other hand, if anything. A weak handed hammer fist grip with a good strike bezel could be quite effective at even preventing a take down in the first place. If your opponent went for a waist grab, whether or not getting past a primary weapon, he's exposed himself to some serious injury to the head, neck, collar bone (defender's weak side), and upper back. Also, sometimes the opponent or recognition of aggression is already inside of your strike zone due to the surroundings. We often pass people shoulder to shoulder in stairways, elevators and the like. Obviously someone with a clue wouldn't stand there against an opponent wielding a tire iron while sword gripping his E2D and square off with him. The strike bezel is a close in, last ditch, force amplifier which happens to be at the end of your high powered light and that's all! It's all about increasing your chances when the cards are down..so to speak. 

I'm really wondering why there is a still a debate about whether or not a strike bezel would "make any difference." It's simple physics folks. When the surface area is reduced while applying the same force it's going to cause more damage to soft tissue and shallow underlying bone damage. Associated with that is often more pain and more bleeding. 

Those who are interested in protecting themselves, know how to use a strike bezel and are not impeded by carrying one, should by all means consider the option to carry one. Sure, some with low self esteem will purchase a light with a strike bezel for the sole purpose of being a bigshot in front of his friends, but to say that they're *only* for mall ninjas isn't realistic. It's like saying "weapon lights are only for swat wantabe's" which isn't true either. Although training and practice is the most important thing to have, I believe that if even an unskilled defender only had a flashlight and nothing else, that his/her chances of defeating the threat would be raised, to some degree, if they had an aggressive strike bezel. Whether it's a knife, a strike bezel, teeth or finger nails, someone with a sharp instrument is a bigger threat, no matter how unskilled, than someone without anything. It's just a fact of nature and flesh.


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## PayBack (Jul 10, 2008)

Well I guess due to the kind of training I've done, I'd personally be worse off holding a light, strike bezel or not. Regardless they should be optional so the 99.99% of people who don't want or need them have the option. And don't think that percentage is not accurate just because I'm biased lol.



half-watt said:


> we need to laugh at ourselves sometimes]



Speak for yourself, enough other people laugh at me that I don't need to.


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## Aluminous (Jul 11, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> Well theres only one way to find out really. Grab the E2D in your hand and jab it on your leg hard. Once you've done that come back onto this thread and post your results.
> 
> Steve



What they do on Mythbusters sometimes is test weapons on animal carcasses (such as pig or deer). I think that would work pretty well for this.  






Patriot36 said:


> It depends on so many factors though including what's in your other hand, if anything. A weak handed hammer fist grip with a good strike bezel could be quite effective at even preventing a take down in the first place. If your opponent went for a waist grab, whether or not getting past a primary weapon, he's exposed himself to some serious injury to the head, neck, collar bone (defender's weak side), and upper back. Also, sometimes the opponent or recognition of aggression is already inside of your strike zone due to the surroundings. We often pass people shoulder to shoulder in stairways, elevators and the like. Obviously someone with a clue wouldn't stand there against an opponent wielding a tire iron while sword gripping his E2D and square off with him. The strike bezel is a close in, last ditch, force amplifier which happens to be at the end of your high powered light and that's all! It's all about increasing your chances when the cards are down..so to speak.
> 
> I'm really wondering why there is a still a debate about whether or not a strike bezel would "make any difference." It's simple physics folks. When the surface area is reduced while applying the same force it's going to cause more damage to soft tissue and shallow underlying bone damage. Associated with that is often more pain and more bleeding.
> 
> Those who are interested in protecting themselves, know how to use a strike bezel and are not impeded by carrying one, should by all means consider the option to carry one. Sure, some with low self esteem will purchase a light with a strike bezel for the sole purpose of being a bigshot in front of his friends, but to say that they're *only* for mall ninjas isn't realistic. It's like saying "weapon lights are only for swat wantabe's" which isn't true either. Although training and practice is the most important thing to have, I believe that if even an unskilled defender only had a flashlight and nothing else, that his/her chances of defeating the threat would be raised, to some degree, if they had an aggressive strike bezel. Whether it's a knife, a strike bezel, teeth or finger nails, someone with a sharp instrument is a bigger threat, no matter how unskilled, than someone without anything. It's just a fact of nature and flesh.



Great post!


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## FredM (Jul 11, 2008)

I think it might be marginally better than the normal Surefire bezel, it is not enough to make it worth it for EDC.

I like the E2DL but could live with the spikes being a little shorter.


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## Desertrat (Jul 11, 2008)

All the cops I work with and talk to, say they definitely will break a window or put a dent in a "perps" head.


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## Illum (Jul 11, 2008)

a user on the forum did this but I forgot who




Concerning the degree of the strike bezel several "legal" issues come to mind....A flashlight does not need a concealed weapon carry license...but if a flashlight is lethal....thats another story


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## U2VOODOO (Jul 13, 2008)

Without sounding cocky, maybe the strike bezel is just a little better than a standard bezel, and the fact that it may already be in your hand is possibly a slight advantage . As far as it being the best thing at hand, probably not. May just be enough of an advantage to escape, or slow someone down until you can secure a better weapon. YMMV.:thinking:


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## Patriot (Jul 13, 2008)

U2VOODOO said:


> maybe the strike bezel is just a little better than a standard bezel, and the fact that it may already be in your hand is possibly a slight advantage . As far as it being the best thing at hand, probably not. May just be enough of an advantage to escape, or slow someone down until you can secure a better weapon. YMMV.:thinking:





Very sensible post! You've looked at the strike bezel as not being the best thing at hand and I agree but yeah, it is a great tool to have at the ready. The fact that it may already be in your hand is a huge advantage, especially in a situation where there's an escalation of force involved. I don't believe that most situations start off lethal, but can escalate into a life or death scenario quickly. I often wonder how an aggressive, non-lethal counter attack would prevent some situations from turning deadly. Most statistics show that non-hardened criminals often shy away strongly from determined resistance and would rather turn and run than risk injury or capture by authorities.


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## gstrand (Jul 14, 2008)

Dunno about you guys, but any improvised weapon is better than none in a situation calling for the need. I would question how one got in to the situation in the first place, though.

Some great SD practitioner advice here and won't add too much, only to say training is key in an SD situation, and that I have carried both a MiniKoga and E2D all over the world on business as insurance with basically zero second looks. 

I've never had the light questioned, I only had to explain the koga once, in Chandigarh, India (up close to Pakistan, an "airport" that is really only a military base, staffed by regular, AK47-toting enlisted security...) I told the soldier it was a massage and pressure point tool for tired travelling muscles... and he became much more interested in my computer and ipod, on a personal level, asking me about them. 

I value the "light" of the light as much or more than the teeth of the bezel.

I believe that ongoing training is key, but awareness is more key. If you avoid situations and make choices that will avoid putting you in a need for defending yourself, your personal safety goes up exponentially. 

On the usefulness of the strike bezel, I do believe it could be very useful in the situation it was supposedly designed for, mostly cosmetic the rest of the time.

Oh - and someone said something about ground technique... if you do participate in a martial art or SD discipline, get some ground technique training. Some basic BJJ or katamewaza are good to know. Your TKD spinning back kick is sweet for getting a point and looking cool... but up close and personal on the ground a kata gatame and a few other simple grappling techniques can end a real fight...

Anyway, I like the strike bezel, but would not have it as my only option. If you're truly interested in SD and you buy a flashlight as the answer, um, yikes!

...and pi-stol jutsu trumps just about everything.


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