# Wicked Laser's Torch - Don't do it!



## magician13134 (Feb 23, 2009)

I just got this in the mail and excitedly charged up the battery; I couldn't WAIT to use it. 30 minutes later, the indicator light turned green, I popped out the battery, unplugged the charger (if you can even call it that, super cheap) and twisted off the back of the light. Right here is where I had my first doubts about the light. It squeaked SO LOUD that my dogs both ran and hid. But hey, a squeaky end cap, no big deal right? So I popped in the battery, aimed the light at an adjacent wall (maybe 30 feet away), squinted my eyes in preparation and pressed that button! I looked in my hand thinking that I MUST be holding my dad's old maglight. Nope. It was the Torch. The beam was terrible, there was a gaping hole in the middle and it wasn't even that bright. I quickly pulled out my PD30 for a comparison, and while the Torch had a warmer, larger beam, the PD30 was nearly as bright. Grumpily, I turned it off, grabbed some loose leaf and headed outside. I held the paper about six inches away and let it rip. Nothing. I moved the paper closer. Nothing. I put it ON the lens. Nothing. I went in to grab some newspaper, leaving the other paper on the lens while I was gone. Nothing. The newspaper wasn't much better, it smoldered, yes, but fire? No. Dried leafs? No fire. I couldn't even see the beam 10 feet away at 5PM in the evening.
This light is garbage. Don't even THINK about wasting your money on it. There's not a chance in the world this is 4100 Lumens. I'd place my bets around 410 (Ok, more than that, but 1000 would be pressing it).
(That being said, if anyone is looking to buy one... :laughing
:shakehead


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## adirondackdestroyer (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm pretty sure there is something wrong with your Torch. I've never seen one personally, but if it is working properly it should absolutely crush a PD30. I had a Mag85, and it spanked every single LED light I've ever seen, and the Torch is 4x as bright as a Mag85.

Maybe some of the Incan pros can give you some help.


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## addictedmatt (Feb 23, 2009)

Yeah, something is wrong with your light. Even unfocused it should blow away the fenix. Here is a beamshot of my 4400 lumen mag623, it is basically the same light.


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## magician13134 (Feb 23, 2009)

Well, the beam was much bigger than the PD30 (I guess it's a flood and the PD30 is a throw?) 
And I can't really think of any reason why it would only light up to partial brightness (I'm new to this, maybe that does happen?), but it seems to me that it would either light up or not, but I could be mistaken :thinking:


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 23, 2009)

The Mag623 is crazy bright but the Wicked Laser version is a letdown.

They cut too many corners IMO.


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## IMSabbel (Feb 23, 2009)

I would think that your battery pack was not fully charged. Try charging it overlight again.
Either that, or you got some voltage drop somewhere.

Its not an elegant way to produce light, but the sheer amount of watts flowing through the bulb should make it WAY brighter than any single led flashlight could be.


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## magician13134 (Feb 23, 2009)

Should I measure the voltage from the battery? Or would the drop be happening somewhere else? I can charge my battery then take some pictures of the beams once it gets dark.


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## Zatoichi (Feb 23, 2009)

Is it normal for the batteries to charge up in 30 minutes?


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## magician13134 (Feb 23, 2009)

I watched a video guide that said to not let them charge any longer than that. Although the manual did not mention it, so I'll let 'em sit a little while longer.

Fresh out of a charge, my battery measured 17.56V. Is that safe from a 14.4V battery pack?


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## IMSabbel (Feb 23, 2009)

magician13134 said:


> I watched a video guide that said to not let them charge any longer than that. Although the manual did not mention it, so I'll let 'em sit a little while longer.
> 
> Fresh out of a charge, my battery measured 17.56V. Is that safe from a 14.4V battery pack?



that seems reasonable. even a bit high, imho. Would more like expect 17.0 or so.
Hm. Then there is to be a problem somewhere else.
Just think about it that way: high power incan bulbs are virtually short-circuits. so even tiny contact resistances can up a lot.


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## magician13134 (Feb 23, 2009)

Ok. So. I charged up the battery and took it outside for some beamshots. You guys were right, I don't know if it was the further distance, the darkerness, or what, but it blew my LEDs away.
Here they are:
4 D-Cell Maglite:



PD30:



XTAR P7-C2:



Torch:




Then, I was even able to light a strip of newspaper on fire, I was feeling pretty cool 

But! Then! After having it on for _maybe_ three minutes, I hear a little *tink*. So I immediately turned it off and let my eyes adjust to the dark again. 
What do you think I saw?

Yeah... So, at least there's a 6 month warranty. Should I deal with a replacement, or just try to get my money back?

*Sigh*


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## DieselTech (Feb 23, 2009)

I'd try to get a replacement. It sounds like your light has had issues from the start, perhaps an all new one would have fewer issues.


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## magician13134 (Feb 23, 2009)

Alright, I'll give it another shot. Do all HIDs have a nasty hole in the beam?


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## Yoda4561 (Feb 23, 2009)

If you really love the thing, call up their warranty dept and get it fixed, or see if it's cheaper to fix it yourself by getting some Borofloat glass from Flashlightlens. If you can remove the window and they carry your size a couple new lenses would likely be less than the shipping to get it serviced. If it's just getting on your nerves I'd get a refund if possible, when a toy becomes more of a headache than fun (and that's what a Torch type light is really) then it's time to get rid of it.

Edit: HIDs. No, it all depends on how the reflector is designed. It's sort of like cree rings or lux5 donuts with smaller flashlights, it's definately possible with a bit of care to design them out.


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## Mjolnir (Feb 23, 2009)

It really depends on the reflector. The "torch" seems to have a light orange peel reflector. If they gave it more of a texture, it probably would have a nicer looking beam.


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## Illum (Feb 23, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> It really depends on the reflector. The "torch" seems to have a light orange peel reflector. If they gave it more of a texture, it probably would have a nicer looking beam.



that and someone else mentioned that the reflector is camless, flood focused...so forget throw


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## magician13134 (Feb 23, 2009)

Ok, and my dad got home and I wanted to show him, I figured ten seconds with a cracked lens wouldn't do any harm (I know, it's stupid, but nothing bad happened there), and I really don't get it. It was no brighter than his maglite! I had taken the battery out right after taking those pictures and hadn't used it again until now! I could (and did) look STRAIGHT into the light without even hurting my eyes! It wasn't hot or even warm around the bulb. Does the battery just... leak that much power sitting around? It can't... Is my Torch serioursly messed up?!
I think that this is probably going to be more of a headace than anything... I need some sleep now, we'll see if I can get a refund tomorrow, then I'll just enjoy the lights I have for a while (we'll see how long that lasts )

Grrrr....


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## Mjolnir (Feb 23, 2009)

The lens is definitely not supposed to break, especially with a 300 dollar light. You could be having problems with both the battery and the lens. You should really return it before your luck runs out and it blows up on you.


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## USMC8541 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hi There ,there is nothing wrong with your Torch. The battery is shipped dead.The battery must be charged for 24 hrs. Put it on the charger until the green LED light comes on,unplug it,let it cool a bit,plug it back in.Repeat this cycle throughout the day then leave it on the charger overnite. After this initial charge you will be able to complete the charging in a normal manner. There is nothing wrong with your lite,charger or battery. There is lots of misleading info about the torch and a lot of it comes from people that don't even own one.
The beam is adjustable to get rid of that doughnut hole. The reflector is smooth so you get throw and spill lots of both.The torch should not have been advertised as most powerful there are always more powerful or biggest or strongest.What is should have been billed as "A Tactical Light Without Peer For Its Size"
I have 2 torches and have used them for 2 years and I also own several Surfire M6's and when the torch is lit next to AM6 you don't even know the M6 is on. Both torch do not have long run times. being used as a tactical light not a duty light this shorttime doesn't mean very nuch and heat build upis not a problem.I know several torches in use in the Middle East for sweeps and dwelling searches for insurgents. When used in a sweep the whole perimeter is lit up with no need to "HUNT" with a light with much less power like M6.When entering a building the occupants are disoriented from all that power and those massive amounts of lumens has stopped many firefights before they can start. This light has proved itself and is repected.The light is built from the ground up to take all that votage and wattage and is not converted from a lesser light. Don't test the light while its initial charging or run the battery down to rock bottom. After its charged completely you'll be very impressed.


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## Chrontius (Feb 24, 2009)

magician13134 said:


> Alright, I'll give it another shot. Do all HIDs have a nasty hole in the beam?



It's not an HID, and no. Many other HIDs have great beams. Many other hotwires _also_ have great beams.

The Torch has a *60% duty cycle: three minutes on, two minutes off.* It WILL overheat and crap itself if abused.

Also, I think you need to grab the bulb with a lens-cloth, and adjust the focus that way while everything's cold - I've only had a minute or two with one, and the focus was for poop. My ROP handily outthrew it and outran it (30+ min vs. four 2-minute burns), even if I could barely singe newspaper. :shakehead


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## Patriot (Feb 24, 2009)

That's too bad about the lens. Now that I think about it I've never broken a borofloat lens due to heat or cold.

Regarding the "hole" in the middle of the beam, it just sounds like you need to adjust the head to a better focal point. The 623 bulb is capable of a fairly decent hot spot in the center.


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## yellow (Feb 24, 2009)

Chrontius said:


> The Torch has a *40% duty cycle: two minutes on, three minutes off.* It WILL overheat and crap itself if abused.


is it that light:
http://www.wickedlasers.com/download/Torch Master Guide.pdf
there is everything mentionned (duty cycle, positioning of the bulb) ... as 2 often: user failure 

but a better charger might be an idea,
also better contacts or even a charging cradle


also, do simple maths:
100 W bulb,
12 V battery (lets calculate with 14 V)
--> current draw of: *7 A!!*
batteries might be sub-Cs, I guess?
How long You think that light (the batt) could give that? Even when it would not overheat and thus has this duty cycle?


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## Lightraven (Feb 24, 2009)

USMC8541 said:


> Hi There ,there is nothing wrong with your Torch. The battery is shipped dead.The battery must be charged for 24 hrs. Put it on the charger until the green LED light comes on,unplug it,let it cool a bit,plug it back in.Repeat this cycle throughout the day then leave it on the charger overnite. After this initial charge you will be able to complete the charging in a normal manner. There is nothing wrong with your lite,charger or battery. There is lots of misleading info about the torch and a lot of it comes from people that don't even own one.
> The beam is adjustable to get rid of that doughnut hole. The reflector is smooth so you get throw and spill lots of both.The torch should not have been advertised as most powerful there are always more powerful or biggest or strongest.What is should have been billed as "A Tactical Light Without Peer For Its Size"
> I have 2 torches and have used them for 2 years and I also own several Surfire M6's and when the torch is lit next to AM6 you don't even know the M6 is on. Both torch do not have long run times. being used as a tactical light not a duty light this shorttime doesn't mean very nuch and heat build upis not a problem.I know several torches in use in the Middle East for sweeps and dwelling searches for insurgents. When used in a sweep the whole perimeter is lit up with no need to "HUNT" with a light with much less power like M6.When entering a building the occupants are disoriented from all that power and those massive amounts of lumens has stopped many firefights before they can start. This light has proved itself and is repected.The light is built from the ground up to take all that votage and wattage and is not converted from a lesser light. Don't test the light while its initial charging or run the battery down to rock bottom. After its charged completely you'll be very impressed.



Interesting first post.


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Feb 24, 2009)

yellow said:


> is it that light:
> http://www.wickedlasers.com/download/Torch Master Guide.pdf
> there is everything mentionned (duty cycle, positioning of the bulb) ... as 2 often: user failure
> 
> ...


If I'm not mistaken it uses 12-2/3 AA's. I was thinking of buying a couple of there battery packs http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/The_Torch_NI_MH_Battery-75-0.html to power a Mag623 or a Mag633-but I'm not sure of there quality.


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 24, 2009)

Lightraven said:


> Interesting first post.


 
That's one way to put it.


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## magician13134 (Feb 24, 2009)

The seller I bought it from was all too eager to tell me that it was my fault and as soon as I mentioned the 6 month warranty, ignore me (I won't give the exact name, but it was an "authorized Wicked seller" on eBay). I'll let you know how things go when they respond again, but in the mean time, does anyone know where to get a repacement lens? Is that just a standard part?

Thanks


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 24, 2009)

There are many threads here on The Torch. It sounds like you may have a problem with the battery pack, even if 1 cell is bad it can give poor output results. These high current output cells require more aggressive screening, conditioning, and charging to avoid deterioration. The lens should not have cracked.


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## magician13134 (Feb 24, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> The lens should not have cracked.


Well... I don't know what happened, but it did


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## KeyGrip (Feb 25, 2009)

magician13134 said:


> does anyone know where to get a repacement lens? Is that just a standard part?



If this light is as much a Mag copy as it looks, then you can get a replacement window from Lighthound. It would be best if you could remove the two pieces and try to figure out the diameter of the original.


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## Guy's Dropper (Feb 25, 2009)

Did it get wet while it was on or something? That's the only thing I can think of that would make glass crack like that, unless you dropped it.


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## Chrontius (Feb 25, 2009)

KeyGrip said:


> If this light is as much a Mag copy as it looks, then you can get a replacement window from Lighthound. It would be best if you could remove the two pieces and try to figure out the diameter of the original.



The Torch started life as a hotwire by a CPF modder; Wicked Lasers licensed it, and made a Mag clone host that was optimized for a hundred-watt draw (heat and current). It only looks like a Mag on the outside.


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## hyperloop (Feb 26, 2009)

i've long been contemplating getting a Torch for myself, living in Singapore, that would be a huge investment as I would have to calculate shipping into the overall price as well.

I've read and seen great things about it, so this thread is a bit of a surprise but not that much as sometimes there are little hiccups in production and quality control.

Please update us (me) on how your purchase turns out, did they replace it, repair it or what?

thanks man and sorry to hear about your light not meeting your expectations.


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 26, 2009)

They don't have a record for positive customer service ......................


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## KiwiMark (Feb 26, 2009)

How does the cost compare to making your own that is as good or better?

A Borafloat lens is less than $10 from flashlightlens.com
An Aluminium reflector is $10-$15 from Kaidomain.com
A high quality soft start switch is $75 from AW

That is pretty much enough to modify a standard Maglite torch ready for high powered batteries & bulb. Compared to $300 for 'The Torch' it leaves $200 for batteries, charger & bulb. 

I don't think it would be too hard to build a brighter torch with better components for $300.

One option:
4D Maglite (with 1 piece of tubing so the cells don't rattle) or 5C Maglite.
5 x AW IMR26500 cells
Suitable charger (or more than one to speed up the charging process)
Osram 64458 bulb
AW soft start switch
Borafloat lens
Aluminium reflector
Result = ~18.5 Volts, ~10 Amps, ~185 Watts, ~6000 Lumen
Cost = <$300

BTW:
This would be brighter & hotter than a Mag623. I don't think lighting paper on fire would be too hard with this light. I know all the required parts can be ordered over the internet and sent to any country.


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## magician13134 (Feb 26, 2009)

Hey guys, I guess I kind of want to apologize for what I said. I'm really new to all this flashlight scene, and I think I came off a bit rude. The seller I bought it from has offered to replace the lens and said they would take a look at the light too, but after a few charge/discharge cycles, the battery now works fine. The hole I talked about was able to be focused out to get a nice solid beam. Everything seems to be working well now.


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## DieselTech (Feb 26, 2009)

Guy's Dropper said:


> Did it get wet while it was on or something? That's the only thing I can think of that would make glass crack like that, unless you dropped it.



While not a flashlight, I had a halogen worklight that shattered the lens after being on for a few minutes. All I can figure is the heat from the bulb caused the air inside the light to heat up and expand, thus breaking the lens. Perhaps the same thing happened here?


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## junmae (Jul 9, 2009)

magician13134 said:


> The seller I bought it from was all too eager to tell me that it was my fault and as soon as I mentioned the 6 month warranty, ignore me (I won't give the exact name, but it was an "authorized Wicked seller" on eBay). I'll let you know how things go when they respond again, but in the mean time, does anyone know where to get a repacement lens? Is that just a standard part?
> 
> Thanks



Hey I'm just wondering, was this "authorized Wicked seller" on ebay Guitmath? I just ordered my torch not long ago from that user and hope everything will come alright . Earlier I tried to get a refund because ONLY now I really really thought that this light wouldn't be practical with only a 15 min. battery life and 3 min on 2 min off cycle. But I re-thought things and I am kind of glad I got one again.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 16, 2009)

For reference, the 12 x 2/3A NiMH cells have a run time of about 7-8 mins total, not 15 mins. True with any of the versions from WL, Mac, or those made by other custom builders. Need larger mAh cells and mag length if you want longer run time.

Personally, I would not use it more than 2 mins at a time, and let heat be your guide (if Mag head is getting too hot to touch, shut it down to protect all parts).


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## Captain Dave (Nov 22, 2009)

Could you put a HID in that light? I mean, HIDs need less power than the current bulbs. It would be significantly brighter.


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## Illum (Nov 22, 2009)

Captain Dave said:


> Could you put a HID in that light? I mean, HIDs need less power than the current bulbs. It would be significantly brighter.



finding a ballast that is not square is hard enough, finding a ballast that's powerful enough while being able to fit down the mag barrel is even more difficult.
Although its not entirely impossible to make your own ballast : https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/154834

If you don't wish to build your own you can buy one off download
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/248232


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 22, 2009)

Captain Dave said:


> Could you put a HID in that light? I mean, HIDs need less power than the current bulbs. It would be significantly brighter.



The Welch Allyn HID that Mac put in Elephant HID's would likely fit.


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## Illum (Nov 22, 2009)

WA 10W HID might be a downgrade in performance:shrug:


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 23, 2009)

It most certainly would, but that's not what he asked. :nana:


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