# Tritium installation problems



## joepa150 (Apr 19, 2010)

I just installed a trit vial into the piston on my Nitecore D10 using Norland 61. I put a few drops in the slot, evened out with a needle, dropped the vial in, and added a few more drops to cover. The pollen is SO bad where I live that everything has a yellowish green dusting on it. I didn't want that to get stuck on the norland 61 so I put the piston outside and covered it with a glass for about 30 minutes. I just went out back to take off the glass and to leave it uncovered for a bit more thinking that the Norland 61 is precured and the pollen won't stick to it now. 


When I examined it it has about 6 specks that look like airbubbles!!!! 

Is this normal and will it go away once it is fully cured?

How did the airbubbles magically appear?


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## Beamhead (Apr 19, 2010)

I have had air bubbles appear in Norland applications, sometimes they have disappeared after full cure and other times they lessoned in size.

I have no idea why the appear but have surmised that poking it after it has been applied can cause air to get trapped, also applying it in cold or even too humid conditions can cause them, also the older the Norland gets the thicker it becomes and air bubbles are more of an issue with older/thicker Norland.


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## joepa150 (Apr 19, 2010)

It still has bubbles. I don't know what to do now. 

Should I just ignore it/live with it?


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## jslappa (Apr 19, 2010)

Applying Norland with "drops" or manipulating the tritium vial after you covered it with Norland is moset likely the cause of the bubbles. It is possible to remove the norland and trit, then try to reinstall it. Many will not want to take that chance. If you decide to redo the job, incecting the Norland into the slot with a steady stream of Norland is the best method. Rocket Tomato sells norland shots with syringes. I apply my Norland in the basement with the lights down low, using the syringe method. I leave the syringe in one corner of the trit slot, and let the Norland ooze into position. Stopping and starting are the best ways to introduce bubbles to your job. Good luck, if you try again. Don't use a metal device to remove the Norland.....You're bound to scratch the HA like that.


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## Beamhead (Apr 19, 2010)

joepa150 said:


> It still has bubbles. I don't know what to do now.
> 
> Should I just ignore it/live with it?


How long has it been? It can take several days to cure fully. How bad are the bubbles? If they are only visible under close examination and more importantly don't affect the visibility of the trit in the dark, leave it be.

I had a 2x8 trit install on a EX10 piston go south and with great care, a sharp utility blade and patience I was able to remove the vial and reinstall it. The vials are very fragile and the slightest pressure can cause them to crack letting the magic glowing smoke out.


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## joepa150 (Apr 19, 2010)

Its not that bad but if you look closely, you can see them. I probably will let it be.


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## Stillphoto (Apr 19, 2010)

Let it be! totally cracked mine over a few tiny bubbles... Wasn't worth the cost/disappointment.


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## tino_ale (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't think bubble can appear if you don't touch the work, so that's the beauty of UV cured resin : in case you messed up and injected bubbles, you can always wash everything away and redo.

If it is cured, it is up to your appreciation to decide if you want to start over. Boiling the part and using a toothpic will normally work but sometimes for no apparent reason the vial just doesn't want to be nice  There is always a risk to break it in the process.

Good luck with your trit work


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## Flashlike (Apr 20, 2010)

Is the proper procedure to lay the trit down in the slot then slowly and steadily apply the Norland adhesive until the cavity is full? I thought it might be better to inject a tiny bit of Norland into the slot first, place the trit over that layer, then finish filling the cavity. That way there would be somewhat of a shock absorbing "cushion" between the trit and the bottom of the slot. 

From the sound of things it's better to keep the flow of adhesive going once you start injecting it. 

Also--has anyone tried any other type of adhesive to install trits? Would ultra-clear epoxy work?


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## tino_ale (Apr 21, 2010)

Yes ultra clear 2 parts epoxy works but is seems the end result is even better with Norland (it is water cristal clear), plus you don't have to worry about curing time in case you messed up. On the other hand, you do have to worry about sourcing a curing device (a 365nm UV light is what you want). The sun does it fine though in a few hours.

I did a few trit installation with Norland using a seringue and I did not pay attention to do it one shot with a continious flow. I placed the trit and poured the norland drop after drop. After each drop I would wait a few seconds so that it pours into place. I had no bubble whatsoever. On the other hand you have to prepare your seringue properly and make sure there is no bubble in it before you start. If you have injected a tiny bubble into the work, you can try sucking it out with the seringue.

One thing also : Norland shrinks a little when curing. You can overshoot _slightly_ if what you want is a flush level once cured.

Also, Norland doesn't age nicely and has a rather short shelf life. It gets thicker over time. It also seems to me that the surface is not as cristal clear as when it's fresh. Still usable though.


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## jhanko (Apr 21, 2010)

Here's a few things that will help:

1) Never apply the adhesive in 2 steps and never apply it on top of the vial. This will always trap air under the adhesive in the form of a bubble(s). Attempting to break this bubble will usually result in more smaller bubbles. The more you mess with it, the worse it will get.

2) First, fill the slot with enough adhesive to cover the vial when put in place. This will typically require filling the slot 1/2 way. SLOWLY press the vial into the adhesive. This will push the adhesive around and on top of the vial without introducing air, hence no bubbles.

3) Heat the part just prior to applying the adhesive. This will make it less viscous. It will flow around the vial faster with less chance of trapping air. If you do get a bubble, it will rise to the top faster and be easier to break.

4) Work under magnification. Get yourself a $2 pair of non-prescription reading glasses. 2X magnification is fine. They will allow you to see bubbles your naked eye can't.

Good luck!


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## joepa150 (Apr 21, 2010)

JHanko said:


> Here's a few things that will help:
> 
> 1) Never apply the adhesive in 2 steps and never apply it on top of the vial. This will always trap air under the adhesive in the form of a bubble(s). Attempting to break this bubble will usually result in more smaller bubbles. The more you mess with it, the worse it will get.
> 
> ...



My mistake must have been putting it over the trit vial. I had no air in the syringe and put a small amount into the slot, then I put the vial in, and covered it.


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## tino_ale (Apr 22, 2010)

JHanko said:


> 3) Heat the part just prior to applying the adhesive. This will make it less viscous. It will flow around the vial faster with less chance of trapping air. If you do get a bubble, it will rise to the top faster and be easier to break.


Very good idea!


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## K31th (Jun 2, 2010)

I am planning on putting 2 trits in the lanyard slots on end of my Quark AA2 Tactical.

I know what size trits I need ( got to decide on a colour yet though ).
I have been onto MarketPlace and found the thread to the guy that sells the Norland 61 vials.

How do I go about fitting the trits into these slots ?

Any pearls of wisdom anyone can give me would be VERY much appreciated.
Thanks in advance for any information given.


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## nanomu (Jun 2, 2010)

K31th said:


> I am planning on putting 2 trits in the lanyard slots on end of my Quark AA2 Tactical.
> 
> How do I go about fitting the trits into these slots ?



Looks like we're in the same boat here. I haven't done this before either, and have plans to mount a couple trits in the same location. Given there's no backing, I suspect it'll be a little tricky.

I've thought about this as far as.. removing all the hardware (switch and plastic boot) from the tailcap. Since I don't have my trits yet, I'm not sure if these will wedge in and I can ooze the adhesive around it, or if I'm going to have to figure something else out.


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## K31th (Jun 3, 2010)

nanomu said:


> Looks like we're in the same boat here. I haven't done this before either, and have plans to mount a couple trits in the same location. Given there's no backing, I suspect it'll be a little tricky.
> 
> I've thought about this as far as.. removing all the hardware (switch and plastic boot) from the tailcap. Since I don't have my trits yet, I'm not sure if these will wedge in and I can ooze the adhesive around it, or if I'm going to have to figure something else out.


 
Maybe we can help each other out then.
I am looking at older threads and have sent a couple of PM's to members of this forum about fitting these trits properly.
Any information I find / get back I will pass on to you and maybe you could do the same back to me if you get any other helpful suggestions.

What do you reckon ?


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## calipsoii (Jun 3, 2010)

K31th said:


> I am planning on putting 2 trits in the lanyard slots on end of my Quark AA2 Tactical.
> 
> I know what size trits I need ( got to decide on a colour yet though ).
> I have been onto MarketPlace and found the thread to the guy that sells the Norland 61 vials.
> ...



Just recently installed an ice-blue 2x8mm in my slotted D10 Tribute. Ended up buying an entire bottle of Norland 61 (shipped to Canada, paid customs AND brokerage fees which sucked). 

Wasn't sure how I would cure it - originally planned on putting it outside in the sun under a pint glass (so that the poplar fuzz wouldn't land on it) but it was cloudy on the weekend. Decided to take a gamble on a set of two UV LED battery-powered hockey pucks that I picked up from Spencer Gifts. Their website does not have them listed, so I can't link them here unfortunately. Cost $9 for both, each runs on 3 AAA batteries, and they swivel, which ended up coming in handy.

For the adhesive, I vacuumed a desk and wiped it down to get rid of dust. Then squirted a bit of Norland onto a sheet of wax paper. I had a bunch of tiny-bore syringes used on a diabetic cat, but they weren't able to suck up the relatively thick adhesive. Decided instead to use a wooden toothpick to scoop the adhesive up and then touch it to the slot, depositing a drop in it. Repeated that over and over, touching the drop of adhesive on the toothpick to the stuff already in the slot and allowing it to flow into place. When it was 1/3rd full, placed the vial in there, centered it, pushed it down slightly, and resumed scooping with the toothpick. Stopped when I could see that the meniscus of the fluid was level with the piston's surface. Setup the UV LED and left it running overnight. To test whether it was cured, I made a tiny loop of fabric (from a hotel patch kit) and dragged it across the surface. Then tried harder and harder objects until I figured it's as good as it would get.

Snapped a picture of the UV setup:






And a picture of the finished project:





Hope that helps a bit. Have never tried mounting a trit in a lanyard hole, but I'd probably just use some wax paper backing taped in place with green painters tape (tested beforehand, of course). Good luck, let us know how it turns out!


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## McGizmo (Jun 3, 2010)

One oddity I have encountered is the apparent occasional floating of the vial in the Norland. I don't know if the specific gravity of the Norland varies from batch, age or temperature nor do I know if the specific gravity of the vials will vary but it has seemed to me that there is enough variation that sometimes the vial will float to the surface after a successful submersion. :shrug:

On my last batch of pistons, I zapped the partially filled cavity and vial with UV and then backfilled to the surface and followed up with a final cure.


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## pugga (Jun 4, 2010)

Hi McGizmo,

I have noticed the same thing but I'm not sure why either. I have been doing multi color setting but don't know which colors do it more. My biggest problem is bloody bubbles forming during curing. I think it is to do with the fact that I am not just using a small amount of norland in 1 small slot but more like 3-4 drops in 1 large pocket. When it sets its shrinks a little and sucks air in maybe.

What do you use to cure the norland? I just got a nichia 365nm and it doesn't seem to cure the norland to a hard enough state for me to polish. 

Cheers pugga


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## bobjane (Jun 4, 2010)

Use a syringe with large guage needle.
Thin layer of Norland in the slot before putting in the trit.
Overfill the Norland so it protrudes.
Pick out any air bubbles with a pin while Norland is still wet.
Sit it under a DX UV light for an hour or so.
Leave it outside on a sunny day.
Sand and polish off the excess Norland.

This gives me perfect results every time.


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## K31th (Jun 4, 2010)

calipsoii said:


> Hope that helps a bit. Have never tried mounting a trit in a lanyard hole, *but I'd probably just use some wax paper backing taped in place with green painters tape (tested beforehand, of course).* Good luck, let us know how it turns out!


 
Like the idea of the wax paper , I had'nt thought of that.
Thanks !!! :twothumbs


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## precisionworks (Oct 26, 2011)

> I had a bunch of tiny-bore syringes used on a diabetic cat, but they weren't able to suck up the relatively thick adhesive.


I use a .5cc insulin syringe with a 30 gauge needle. There's no way to suck the NOA61 through the needle but it's easy to pull out the plunger & put two or three drops of adhesive inside the barrel from the back end. Slide the plunger barely into the barrel & point the needle straight up while pushing the plunger toward the needle to expel all air. Because the needle is so tiny (.012" outside diameter) it's really easy to use while filling a small trit slot.


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## freeloader700 (Jan 13, 2012)

How much is that Norland 61? I couldn't find a price on their site for it.


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## benthiccracker (May 24, 2012)

Get the Norland 61 here: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...and-61-Optical-Adhesive-for-Trit-installation
Support CPF/CPFM members!
Regards,
Brian


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## benthiccracker (Jun 13, 2012)

I just installed trits in Ronacs standoff tailcap with Norland 61 and it seems to be relatively easy. It was the first time I ever did it. I just did a little research before hand and didn't have a single problem. I used a syringe that is an option on this thread http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...and-61-Optical-Adhesive-for-Trit-installation and I cut the bulb off of one of the supplied pipettes. I put a dab of Norland 61 in the slot, dropped in the trit and then covered it the rest of the way up. I then gently positioned the trit with the tip of the pipette. After I did this with all three trit slots I put it outside in the sun. I am now waiting for it to cure. I will reply in a little while and tell you how it turns out. 
About an hour after I pout it in the sun rotating it every 20 minutes to hit all three slots in the late afternoon around 5pm with overcast skies I had to bring it inside so I could go to class.
Fast forward about 6 hours later I dared to touch the surface and it was slick as glass and cured. Perfect and easy to do.


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## theslippyslug (Dec 12, 2012)

Anyone found a good method of removing trits?
i have a light with two trits in and I'm not all that impressed with the colour... I'd like to take them out and change them. It would be good to hear from folks if this is possible without too much fuss


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## mohanjude (Dec 12, 2012)

ukmidnite said:


> Anyone found a good method of removing trits?
> i have a light with two trits in and I'm not all that impressed with the colour... I'd like to take them out and change them. It would be good to hear from folks if this is possible without too much fuss



Matt

Heat the trit up .. The norland starts to liquefy and smoke. Don't overheat it or you will blacken the norland. Once liquified you can prise the trits out. I use a gas flame gently do this. He gas emitted is very irritant.


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## datiLED (Dec 14, 2012)

ukmidnite said:


> Anyone found a good method of removing trits?
> i have a light with two trits in and I'm not all that impressed with the colour... I'd like to take them out and change them. It would be good to hear from folks if this is possible without too much fuss



I use a mug warmer to heat the part for at least an hour. It will soften the Norland where it can be picked out with a sharp dental tool. The Norland usually comes out in two pieces. The part above the trit, and the part below it. It will come off of the vial easily if it is warm enough, though it may take another session on the mug warmer.


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## theslippyslug (Dec 21, 2012)

Thanks for the replies guys - the trits are in my SPY so I'm going to have to go gently to avoid discolouring the Ti - need to find something that can apply just enough heat in a localised spot...


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## murpharoo (Dec 21, 2012)

No help with your current problem..... but I decided to use clear nail varnish to install the trits in my Spys. It is clear and can be softened with acetone for 'easy' trit removal.


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## mohanjude (Dec 21, 2012)

ukmidnite said:


> Thanks for the replies guys - the trits are in my SPY so I'm going to have to go gently to avoid discolouring the Ti - need to find something that can apply just enough heat in a localised spot...



Matt - trust me use a simple lighter (butane) and just move the flame briefly over the trits. Remove the o rings off the button first though...

Mohan


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## KuanR (Dec 21, 2012)

What about the little piece of plastic under the knob? That can burn very easily with a butane torch


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## mohanjude (Dec 22, 2012)

KuanR said:


> What about the little piece of plastic under the knob? That can burn very easily with a butane torch



Not a butane torch but a butane lighter (cigarette lighter). You only want to heat it up for a few secs - I would turn the gas right down so it is like candle flame


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## ToyTank (Dec 31, 2012)

I have not tried this, but how about a soldering iron? Maybe use thin layer of aluminum foil to isolate the iron form the glue while conducting the heat.

I'd like to hear how it went.


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