# What's in a cop's light bar?



## Oznog (Aug 29, 2007)

OK, the flashing LED "light bar" that cops use now, as well as ambulance lights etc are composed of small modular elements about 1" or so on a side. The light pattern on each module appears as a bright spot in the center and a bright circle close to the perimeter.

What is the LED emitter is behind these? Are they those 3mm x 3mm squares, a Luxeon, or what? Just one per square module?

Is there a brand name associated with this type of LED module?


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## Gryloc (Aug 29, 2007)

That's a great question! I have been pondering the same thing. I may see a cop car with its light on when I am walking by here in Cincinnati, and I am always amazed by the output of those light bars! I cannot stop staring at the thing to make out what emitters are used, or in what pattern/layout. Someday, I will be staring at the shiny lights, then I will get tackled by the man that was pulled over who escaped the officer's grip. There could be a chance I could get shot by not paying attention on what is going on, too. Oh well. I hope someone can chime in here...

-Tony


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## greenLED (Aug 29, 2007)

I think they're Lux bars.


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## GreySave (Aug 29, 2007)

I read an article about those a while back. The article did discuss the LEDs, but I honestly do not recall the specifics. What I do recall is some of the police officers as well as EMS drivers complaining that they were actually being blinded by the new high powered LED lightbars when following another cruiser or ambulance on a run. They had to back way off in order to follow comfortably.

I did encounter an ambulance on the New York State Thruway one afternoon that was so bright it actually was physically uncomfortable to look at the vehicle. I never was close enough to see exactly what type of lighting it was running, which was probably a good thing.


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## tebore (Aug 29, 2007)

greenLED said:


> I think they're Lux bars.



We have a few ambulances here with LEDs and they look like Luxs'. I think it's 10mm LEDs or those multi-die 10mm LEDs with out the dome, I'm thinking that they just drive them harder when strobing and drive at spec when it's constant on.


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## Oznog (Aug 29, 2007)

What, like Luxeon 1W emitters?

I seem to remember first seeing these many years ago, and they haven't changed as far as I can see. The thing is, many years ago the Luxeon emitters were quite expensive and there's quite a lot of emitting elements in there. Then again I hardly remember dates with any sense of accuracy.


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## Lite_me (Aug 29, 2007)

I know I've come up behind a Cop that has someone pulled over on a highway where there's no streetlights or ambient lighting and some of those lightbars are blinding. I was not able to see beyond the lights to see what I was driving up on. That is potentially dangerous. You can see those things for miles. Why do they need to be so bright? 
(Now there's a strange question from a flashaholic)


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## Changchung (Aug 30, 2007)

The Leds in lights in automotive security police or EMS comes in three options, called by generations, first generation 5mm Leds, second generation Flux 4 Leds in one or piranha and third or last generation Leds 1 watt, in the most of the lights on the streets right now are 3rd gen 1 watts Leds...

There it is a Police patrol from Venezuela...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn5dKfATCZA


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## greenLED (Aug 30, 2007)

Changchung said:


> The Leds in lights in automotive security police or EMS comes in three options, called by generations, first generation 5mm Leds, second generation Flux 4 Leds in one or piranha and third or last generation Leds 1 watt, in the most of the lights on the streets right now are 3rd gen 1 watts Leds...
> 
> There it is a Police patrol from Venezuela...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn5dKfATCZA


Thanks, Changchung. I was about to point out that there are different types of light bars. The dashbar-mounted ones I've seen are clusters of 5mm LED's, but the lightbars on top of the local police cars are definitely Luxeons of some type.


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## Illum (Aug 30, 2007)

I love a type of light bar that uses blue LEDs ...:wow: they are bright...you could literally see them from a mile away weather permitting

what I don't understand is why patrol cars must have a number of different lights aside from the light bar flashing with the same high frequency with independent intervals...why not just the light bar and at a much lower non-seizure oriented strobes


if your driving at night one car literally looks like a ball of cars together...enough to blind you if your not careful:shakehead
I once had the privilege of seeing a multi car crash on a bridge and the entire section was closed off. in the sea of red road flares there must be 50 cop cars plus i dunno how many ambulances and construction [yellow light bar] vehicles all on the bridge....I got a glimpse of it while following a detour marker to another bridge...the thing looked like a blue and orange mountain of strobes with red flares trailing down, it was impressive...blinding, but impressive


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## stephenmadpotato (Aug 31, 2007)

If I was 13 years old again, I'd probably try and steal one...


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## Changchung (Aug 31, 2007)

If you think everything is already done with light had become bars or dash lights check this video, you can seen as the bar inside in the windshield nonsingle pledges blue and red, if not that also interchanges the sectors of colors, I believe that it is Whelen, that look great...

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=4936906


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## Changchung (Aug 31, 2007)

Illum_the_nation said:


> I love a type of light bar that uses blue LEDs ...:wow: they are bright...you could literally see them from a mile away weather permitting
> 
> what I don't understand is why patrol cars must have a number of different lights aside from the light bar flashing with the same high frequency with independent intervals...why not just the light bar and at a much lower non-seizure oriented strobes
> 
> ...




About the flashing with the same high frequency with independent intervals, all the lights bar have different patterns for differents use, maybe you are saw the same flash patterns, if the light bars is from a famous marks the effects will be better, like Whelen, Sho-me or Sound off. 

There are many unknown Chinese marks which much cannot be trusted...


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## Changchung (Aug 31, 2007)

greenLED said:


> Thanks, Changchung. I was about to point out that there are different types of light bars. The dashbar-mounted ones I've seen are clusters of 5mm LED's, but the lightbars on top of the local police cars are definitely Luxeons of some type.



Hi Green, those lights with 5mm almost they are already not used, if you compare the brightness of those with the type 1 watt you will know why...

Illum_the_nation; you must carrier with you your camara to take those moments...


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## chimo (Aug 31, 2007)

Googled "police light bar".

Certainly not the only supplier, but here's an assortment.


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## Illum (Aug 31, 2007)

Changchung said:


> About the flashing with the same high frequency with independent intervals, all the lights bar have different patterns for differents use, maybe you are saw the same flash patterns, if the light bars is from a famous marks the effects will be better, like Whelen, Sho-me or Sound off.
> 
> There are many unknown Chinese marks which much cannot be trusted...



well...the most complicated one I've seen
two stage white strobe [4 strobe heads total] for front headlights
two blue strobes [presume LED because they are about twice the size of matchboxes and square] mounted fog light style under the radiator opening
A very very low profile light bar thats almost flat on the roof, all blue with about 6 flashers on the front and a trailing orange marker in the back and 6 flashers on top of it.
front dashboard had two...each one blue and one red 
one back seat mount strobe, also blue/red
two additional rear hatch strobes mounted to the roof on the interior
single stage white strobe [2 strobe heads] for tail lights 

saw this ford near an accident...[the lanes is about 5 mph to standstill so I studied the car through sunglasses]. Personally I jog with a strobe light for safety and I cannot imagine if all the strobes mounted in the car were non-LED, the capacitor whine can drive anyone nuts...siren or no siren

different patterns for different uses, okay...but why turn them on all at once?:duh2:


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## greenLED (Aug 31, 2007)

Illum, you'd be amazed at how some drivers seem oblivious to even all that flashing display of lights.


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## Illum (Aug 31, 2007)

greenLED said:


> Illum, you'd be amazed at how some drivers seem oblivious to even all that flashing display of lights.



unfortunately I'm too easily distracted.
I don't drive at night because everything is so bright for me....I will get dark spots in my eye from the taillights of a car in front of me if I get too close.

you can't imagine my frustration at patrol cars:shakehead

http://www.policedriving.com/article145.htm
the first four paragraph basically sums up the issue

from the fox-international catalog...Whelen's Dominator series uses [presumably lumiled] LEDs behind TIR collimators
no detail on the LEDs were given though...


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## greenLED (Aug 31, 2007)

I see what you're saying. I was talking about single emergency vehicles with lights on and sirens blasting and drivers *still* don't notice them!

Multiple emergency vehicles at the same scene is another story.


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## Illum (Aug 31, 2007)

Changchung said:


> Illum_the_nation; you must carrier with you your camara to take those moments...



sigh...theres alot of those moments...when you wanted a camera and don't have one:shakehead


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## Changchung (Aug 31, 2007)

quote=Illum_the_nation;2135480]well...the most complicated one I've seen
two stage white strobe [4 strobe heads total] for front headlights
two blue strobes [presume LED because they are about twice the size of matchboxes and square] mounted fog light style under the radiator opening
A very very low profile light bar thats almost flat on the roof, all blue with about 6 flashers on the front and a trailing orange marker in the back and 6 flashers on top of it.
front dashboard had two...each one blue and one red 
one back seat mount strobe, also blue/red
two additional rear hatch strobes mounted to the roof on the interior
single stage white strobe [2 strobe heads] for tail lights 

saw this ford near an accident...[the lanes is about 5 mph to standstill so I studied the car through sunglasses]. Personally I jog with a strobe light for safety and I cannot imagine if all the strobes mounted in the car were non-LED, the capacitor whine can drive anyone nuts...siren or no siren

different patterns for different uses, okay...but why turn them on all at once?:duh2:[/quote]

So many lights for one car... But if their can why not??? Much of this trucks or ambulance have 2 alternators or just one but with a bigger amp output, the strobe light load a lot of amp, very soon the strobe will be obsolete... I think... Tha advantage of the atrobe is the wide angle view...


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## Changchung (Aug 31, 2007)

Illum_the_nation said:


> sigh...theres alot of those moments...when you wanted a camera and don't have one:shakehead




That happen all the time, but maybe you have and cant be used, that remind me something, I have a bike accident around two months ago, a lady dosent stop a red light and hit me in my right side, some persons toll me that I fly around 20 feet and fall like a rock, well I am not a small person, so, in the floor I call some friends, their comes very fast, I give to a friend my camera and I toll her; Take all the pictures you can. With my leg broken I dont see what she do, well, later in the hospital she toll me she dont take any pic  Damw... So, I hope dont have another chance like that to take some important pics...

If you have a camera carrier all the time... And use your self... :laughing:


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## frenzee (Aug 31, 2007)

Changchung said:


> That happen all the time, but maybe you have and cant be used, that remind me something, I have a bike accident around two months ago, a lady dosent stop a red light and hit me in my right side, some persons toll me that I fly around 20 feet and fall like a rock, well I am not a small person, so, in the floor I call some friends, their comes very fast, I give to a friend my camera and I toll her; Take all the pictures you can. With my leg broken I dont see what she do, well, later in the hospital she toll me she dont take any pic  Damw... So, I hope dont have another chance like that to take some important pics...
> 
> If you have a camera carrier all the time... And use your self... :laughing:


 
I love your English man. :twothumbs Really. If we all spoke, wrote and looked the same, life would be boring. Hope your leg's OK.


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## Changchung (Aug 31, 2007)

frenzee said:


> I love your English man. :twothumbs Really. If we all spoke, wrote and looked the same, life would be boring. Hope your leg's OK.



HAHhaha thanks, I do my best, my leg is better now, If you wanna check some pics check here...

http://changchungmercado.spaces.live.com/


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## KeeperSD (Sep 7, 2007)

Well this is what is in ours, well the LED part anyway. So if you can decide from the pics what they are then power to you. 







and now illuminated






I can understand that the amount of lights might seem over the top, but from personal experience, standing on a highway at night i want all the flashing lights i can have. This is my patrol car (below), all of the lights are illuminated (both rotators and leds) at traffic accidents. I wear a flourescent yellow and reflectorized vest, a cap with reflective band and a traffic wand and can still count on almost being hit at every accident i attend. Drivers either do not see the cars (how i don't know) will not SLOW down or are just plain stupid. 

Rear of van





Front light bar





We have just had a new light bar introduced over here that has no rotators, consists only of LEDs, when i get a chance i will take a pic and post.


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## kf4zht (Sep 7, 2007)

They vary by manufacturer and model.

Some are just standard 5mm LEDs, some are 10mm, some are luxeon.
I have had good luck building arrays with s-flux LEDs. I am going to try some luxeon ones next.


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## BrokenR1 (Sep 7, 2007)

While looking around I bought this one to use for a tail/brake light. http://www.sirennet.com/whrs-03zcr-mc.html

Saw some others also,
http://www.code3pse.com/catalog.asp?grp=cd3
http://www.emergencyvehiclesupply.com/store/


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## KeeperSD (Sep 7, 2007)

Code3 are the light bars that we use. The Code3 Optix lights are the type of LEDs incorporated in the new light bar that i was talking about.


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## striwa88 (Jun 20, 2009)

Any new updates on this thread?


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## Light Sabre (Jun 20, 2009)

The camera issue brought up in this thread reminds me of some sports cameras I saw in a Cyberguys catalog I just picked out of the recycle bin at work. They can be fastened to a helmet, your bicycles handlebars, etc, so that you can video whatever your'e looking at. Cyberguys.com - Search Results for camera. Your local sports shop may have something similar. Changchung if your friend one of these mounted on a sports hat, then it would have recorded everything she looked at without her having to go thru the process of point and shoot to get a pic. 

Thought just came to mind, that all the flashing lights from the emergency vehicles might play havoc with the auto exposure control on the camera.  Well the sports video camera was a good thought initially.


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## AlexGT (Jun 21, 2009)

I enlarged one of the photos and I could say that there is a Luxeon K2 led in there.

You can notice part of the hexagon shape of the plate where the die sits


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jun 22, 2009)

The ones around here are luxeon high power emitters 6 in a row.


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## Lightingguy321 (Jun 22, 2009)

Federal signals SL series light bars (solaris SL, Vision SL, Vector SL, Vision SL etc) all use Low dome Luxeon I/III emitters in groups of 3 or 6 with a "tri-optic" or a line of TIR lenses along with a specially designed reflector.


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## Trunk (Jun 23, 2009)

AlexGT said:


> I enlarged one of the photos and I could say that there is a Luxeon K2 led in there.
> 
> You can notice part of the hexagon shape of the plate where the die sits


I think the fluting on the lens is distorting the emitter. In the areas I circled, you can see that the emitter doesn't actually have that hexagonal pattern.









Also, look at the leads. There's one one on each side, and they're offset like the Luxeon, rather than the K2.


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## sadtimes (Jun 23, 2009)

edited


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## VanIsleDSM (Jun 23, 2009)

That attitude disgusts me.

The holier than thou take on things has lost the police around here a HUGE amount of respect lately. Along with all of the taser killings and abuse that have been happening there's about to be an uprising.

You are in place to serve and protect us, you knew what you were doing when you took the job. We pay your wage, we are your boss, the people.

If the people think they'd be better off being able to see you, and not blinded by the ridiculous lights you seem to think you need, then you should listen to what they're saying.

Earn back some of that respect. I risk my life everyday at work too, and have lost a good friend, that's no excuse for that attitude, and I hate how overplayed it is by the police.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just tired of this crap. The police are turning into a paramilitary ruling force that shows some very ugly similarities to a well known fascist takeover in the 30's.


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## blasterman (Jun 23, 2009)

> I have actually put someone in jail for not slowing down and getting over.


 
Good for you, and you (mostly) get my support. Here in Michigan where the weather gets absurdly nasty and unpredictable in the fall and winter, drivers frequently don't want to slow down or switch lanes when a cop has somebody pulled over. Consequently over the years I've seen many cops almost hit by cars and a couple state troopers swiped by vehicles. IMHO - you should chase them down and suspend their license because these are the same people who don't yield to school busses, etc.

However, *you are not getting my support* to put obnoxious, blinding light bars on top of the roof of your car with the weak excuse that is aids in getting attention. It blinds drivers, and causes more distraction than it helps because the painfully bright LEDs such as blue become difficult to localize with peripheral vision. As a driver I'm obligated to move away from the median where you have a car pulled over and slow down to a 'safe and reasonable speed. I *am not obligated* to slow down to 20mph on the interstate and weave into the left lane because your disco lights blinded me.

Consequently, studies I've seen here showed that drivers were just as likely to slow down for a tow truck or emergency vehicle with less obnoxious halogen lights not using law enforcement blue than a high tech ligh bar that can be seen from orbit. A driver either sees the light and yields, or the they choose not to. An increasing number of police officers I'm seeing the past year are also approaching the vehicle from the passenger side.

In short, I totally agree with your dilema, but am a bit offended you think the solution is to use brighter lights to get attention.


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## PhotonWrangler (Jun 23, 2009)

drmalenko said:


> One of my best friends was hit and killed by a driver that didnt see the lights, there were over 10 patrol cars on scene all with their lights on and he was directing traffic, with a reflective vest, flashlight, and a traffic wand in his hand... it happens everyday and it is sad that people dont slow down to a crawl, yes a crawl, when they are approaching lights on the side of the road.



I am sorry for your friend's loss. Having said that, I have to agree with another poster here that a large gaggle of blinding lights can momentarily destroy a driver's night vision. If you think about it, I know that LEOs shine their flashlights directly into a driver's face to gain an advantage in terms of reducing the driver's night vision during the stop. An excessive display of strobing lights does the same thing. This isn't my opinion - it a measurable fact.

I always try to pull out of a lane adjacent to a stopped police car for the very reasons you've stated - and I honestly have sympathy for your situation, and appreciate your service. It just seems that 10 cars with their lights flashing is a little overkill and possibly dangerous. Isn't it enough for the rear-most car to have their lights on to warn oncoming traffic?

respectfully,
pw


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jun 24, 2009)

Plenty of people have added their remarks about how getting brighter and brighter blue LEDs is annoying. I agree. I hate those lights at night. too confusing. It would be nice if they could utilize light sensors, proximity sensors, even just a dial that could be used to dim the lights depending on the situation. I don't want to scare a p.o. but I also don't want to have to pay for those new tires, new doors, or a new car because the light was too bright for a dark rainy night.


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## depusm12 (Jun 24, 2009)

Not sure of the brand name of the lightbar on our new Dodge Durango patrol vehicle. But the leds in the lightbar are Cree XR-E's, I can tell because they have the Cree metal ring. What is really neat is the takedown lights (front set) are white leds.


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## PhotonWrangler (Jun 24, 2009)

depusm12 said:


> Not sure of the brand name of the lightbar on our new Dodge Durango patrol vehicle. But the leds in the lightbar are Cree XR-E's, I can tell because they have the Cree metal ring. What is really neat is the takedown lights (front set) are white leds.



Interesting! So the front-facing lights are the only ones referred to as the takedown lights. Are the rear and side-facing lights referred to as hazard lights?


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## degarb (Jun 25, 2009)

Am I the only one here that feels like the led community slipped up in letting this stealth lightbar technology out to the police? Shouldn't we convince all our local politicians to upgrade to more environmental friendly natural gas or propane power sources for these lights? Something with a persistent pilot light.


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## Illum (Jun 25, 2009)

depusm12 said:


> Not sure of the brand name of the lightbar on our new Dodge Durango patrol vehicle. But the leds in the lightbar are Cree XR-E's, I can tell because they have the Cree metal ring. What is really neat is the takedown lights (front set) are white leds.



probably Whelen, they've started establishing all LED lightbars for awhile
http://www.whelen.com/details_cat.php?&page_type=details_cat&head_id=4&cat_id=17&prod_id=9
One thing though, I dunno how effective LED takedown lights are, but for me using my fog lights, I'd prefer halogen over LED, especially in the rain


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## depusm12 (Jun 25, 2009)

,


PhotonWrangler said:


> Interesting! So the front-facing lights are the only ones referred to as the takedown lights. Are the rear and side-facing lights referred to as hazard lights?


 
I'm refering to the front spot lights, not the red/blue lights. The side lights are called alley lights for looking down alleys/side streets. The amber lights on the rear are called the directional light.


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## degarb (Jun 27, 2009)

Illum said:


> One thing though, I dunno how effective LED takedown lights are, but for me using my fog lights, I'd prefer halogen over LED, especially in the rain



There was a post that dispelled the myth of halogen/incan over led in fog. It turns out the spectrum has nothing to do with reflection in fog. Rather, less spill the better. I am guessing since most incan mag-style flash lights I've used have no spill and only a paltry center beam, this might allow a deeper penetration into smoke, as less collateral particulate illumination.

I have a warm rebel led with no reflector--only a 16 degree gathering lens-- with no spill. I wonder how that would do. Others may have a stronger knowlege, view and experience.


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## striwa88 (Jun 28, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies so far, I have a whelen TIR3 as my 3rd brake light and I think it uses Luxeons. I can tell you it's saved me from getting rear ended a few times when traffic slowed down.


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