# Osram Diamond Dragon ?



## KreAture (Dec 10, 2007)

http://www.osram-os.com/osram_os/EN/Press/Press_Releases/Light_Emitting_Diodes/Diamond_DRAGON.jsp
This appears to be a very fun chip!

Has anyone gotten their mitts on an engeneering sample?
I see they are launching it in January 2008.

Some specs...
250 lm at 1.4A and a 2.5K/W thermal path.

I can't seem to find full datasheets on it yet.


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## SemiMan (Dec 10, 2007)

I have been trying to get some pricing information on it, but have not as of yet. It is a larger die (2mm^2) versus the (approx. 1mm^2) used by Seoul, Lumileds, Cree, etc. I am not sure compared to the package how much that is going to impact the price. It does explain how they got the low thermal resistance. You would not be able to focus it as tightly for the same optic size, however, it would make a good flood.

Semiman


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## KreAture (Dec 10, 2007)

That was my thoughts exactly.
For white it doesn't matter as much as it uses the large phosphor area but for other colors it may be noticable.

As for the price. Larger die usually means lower yelds. I don't know how that translates for LEDs as seeing how they do not contain much of the same circuit-pathways as ICs. Will be interesting to find out...


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## SteveDavis (Dec 10, 2007)

I haven't seen samples yet. I believe the colors are coming out first. I have seen the preliminary datasheets for the colors, and they look very nice. Based on their blue numbers, and the knowledge that OSRAM is very good at phosphors, I would expect the whites to be quite bright.


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## Opto-King (Dec 11, 2007)

SteveDavis said:


> I haven't seen samples yet. I believe the colors are coming out first. I have seen the preliminary datasheets for the colors, and they look very nice. Based on their blue numbers, and the knowledge that OSRAM is very good at phosphors, I would expect the whites to be quite bright.


 
Can you please post a link to the datasheets that you have?


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## SteveDavis (Dec 11, 2007)

Sorry, they're preliminary and confidential. I realize that it kind of sucks for me to have said anything about it. Same exact footprint as platinum, wide viewing angle, bright, available in all standard OSRAM color wavelengths Q1 2008. SemiMan is right about the larger die. That's about all I feel comfortable saying.


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## Opto-King (Dec 12, 2007)

SteveDavis said:


> Sorry, they're preliminary and confidential. I realize that it kind of sucks for me to have said anything about it. Same exact footprint as platinum, wide viewing angle, bright, available in all standard OSRAM color wavelengths Q1 2008. SemiMan is right about the larger die. That's about all I feel comfortable saying.


 
Ok, thanks for the information that you do share anyway... Do you know when the "official" datasheets will be released?


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## HumanLumen (Dec 12, 2007)

Is that 2mm squared or 2x2 mm?? The former would give 1.4mm per side. Dispersion pattern anyone?

HL


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## mds82 (Dec 12, 2007)

Interested to see what comes of this LED, with lumen/watt ratings and everything else


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## KreAture (Dec 12, 2007)

Yeah. Can't wait to rig it up on my bench. I want to use the color-sensor to get RGB readings off it at diff drive-levels. White is the one I want to play with first.


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## Opto-King (Jan 4, 2008)

Does any one have any updates regarding these LEDs? :thinking:


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## Kinnza (Feb 18, 2008)

Datasheets are avalaible at the Osram's web:

Main page of Diamond Dragon: http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalogue/catalogue.do?favOid=000000010001feb602880023&act=showBookmark


Datasheet of Amber (LA), Red (LR) and yellow (LY):
http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalog...=downloadFile&favOid=02000000000249c6000200b6


Datasheet of deep blue (455nm, LD), blue (LB) and true green (528nm, LT):

http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalog...=downloadFile&favOid=0200000300024994000200b6


Datasheet of white (LW, cool white):

http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalog...=downloadFile&favOid=0200000000024946000200b6


All are rated at 1,4A, max 2AWhite's 50Kh of useful life is rated at 1A, 25ºC ambient temperature, although at 1,6A and 85ºC its rated at 30Kh, still very good.

The problem is the order code, as usual with Osram, is very wide, including 4 flux bins, from 150 to 280lm (1,4A).

Have somebody any idea of pricing? Just orientative


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## SemiMan (Feb 18, 2008)

Unless they are cheap, the specifications are not very exciting. I was hoping for higher output at that die size. I almost wonder if we are not at a short term plateau in LED output.

Semiman


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## EntropyQ3 (Feb 19, 2008)

SemiMan said:


> Unless they are cheap, the specifications are not very exciting. I was hoping for higher output at that die size. I almost wonder if we are not at a short term plateau in LED output.


Patents and press-releases can give hints.

I'm not aware of any press releases implying that anything substantial might happen within the next year. (I don't follow the patents concerning LEDs. No my field.)


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## Kinnza (Feb 19, 2008)

You are right, SemiMan, its low for a two sq mm chip, but i think its just a first step into this technology. But probably there is room for great improvements on efficacy of this chips, at the time that thermal management is largelly simplified.

Its very noticiable on the red leds, wich degrades far more than blue/whites at high current densities. Red Diamond Dragon achieves similar efficiciency at 1,4A than other chips at 700mA. I suppose its the Osram target for whites too, but is more difficult keep defects low with large InGan dies.

Ive found an Osram's presentation at a LED workshop organized by the EU. It explain what the Diamond Dragon is targeting, apart of some interesting info about the other Dragons, as max efficiency achievable with each technology:

http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/energyefficiency/pdf/LED workshop May2007/Harle.pdf


If you want to read other manufacturers and experts presentations, you can find it here: http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/energyefficiency/html/Workshop_LED_34052007.htm


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## EntropyQ3 (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks!
That first pdf was a nice summary of issues, _with numbers_. 
I'm plowing through a selection of the others. Lumileds making a big deal out of attacking/solving the problem of lowering efficiency with higher drive current, but as has been nicely shown right in this forum, we have seen no indication of this in the market yet - hopefully this won't stay in the lab, but is achievable in a production setting as well, eventually. Kudos to evan9162 and others making their real life data available to all of us.

All predictions point to 135-150 lm/W white powerleds going forward, but nobody makes any predictions beyond that, except as very sketchy dotted lines on graphs...  A hint as good as any.

Different drivers compared. PWM being the worst of all schemes from an efficiency standpoint. Phosphors and associated technologies - extremely critical since they affect efficiency, CRIs, aging....
OLEDs are damn interesting technology. So many application fields open up.

Again, thanks for the heads-up!


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## SemiMan (Feb 20, 2008)

Kinnza said:


> Its very noticiable on the red leds, wich degrades far more than blue/whites at high current densities. Red Diamond Dragon achieves similar efficiciency at 1,4A than other chips at 700mA. I suppose its the Osram target for whites too, but is more difficult keep defects low with large InGan dies.



Those were great links, thank you. I think there is far more benefit to this for InGaN than for AlInGaP(Red). The Lux3 RED uses a significantly larger die to allow 1.4A operation. However, in the real world, the roll-off due to heat with AlInGaP makes driving it any where near 1.4A impractical. The issue will come down to how cost effective the larger die is. In the early LED days, I have to imagine that the packaging cost was a substantial part of the total cost, but when you look at modern packages such as the Rebel, you have to expect that the percentage of the overall cost that is package has gone down a lot. That may change the economics.

Semiman


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## SteveDavis (Feb 21, 2008)

The Diamond dragon will also be subject to the new binning structure for OSRAM: http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/5/2/11


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