# The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is the Zebralight H501



## AusKipper (Jul 1, 2009)

The Zebralight H501

And heres the long version.

After work today I decided to go check out some bushland near where I live, to scope out a camping trip. Anyway I looked around, couldnt find the camp site (I didnt take a map, but I was never lost, I just couldnt find the camp site) anyway, after a bit I decided to go home, then I decided I would do a little scenario with my EDC gear to see how well I could cope with just that.

Actual EDC:
Fenix TK10
Zebralight H501
Fenix LD01 SS
Benchmade Mini-Ambush
Leatherman Charge TTI
Mini First-Aid kit (useless, only has a couple of bandaids) but also in that container I have jammed a Bic lighter, tissues and a 1 meter'ish lenth of paracord.

Extra stuff i "conveniently" had (for testing purposes..)
Gerber Tracer headlight
Fenix TK40
Fenix TK20

What happened:

I pulled over on the side of the road, got out of the car and locked it, walked about 20m into the bush and started my "survival" scenario.

It had just been raining, so everything was soaked, but i got a fire going very easily with some paperbark and twigs. Initially I was using the Gerber headlight, which i found to be pretty much hopeless, so I soon swapped over to the Zebralight, and found that on low, its excellent for looking around for firewood etc close to your feet. It rendered the colores MUCH better than the Gerber, thus making it much easier to ensure I was trying to light the fire with dead wood and not green.

I then used the TK40 on turbo for a bit (total overkill, I could have used the TK10 on low just as well) to scout around to find some long bits of wood to start building a lean-to shelter with. After locating them I built myself a quick rudimentary shelter to keep the rain off etc (though it had stopped raining by then anyhow). Shelter building is where the Zebralight really came into its own, its far more difficult to build a shelter if your trying to juggle a hand held torch + sticks etc etc.

While I was off in the bush looking for wood I used the fire to enable me to find my way back to "camp". This very soon because problematic because I was only maintaining a very small fire, and most of the time it was not flaming. The TK40 tailstanding (and pointing at the upmost branches of the largest neighboring tree) on Beacon mode however.... that worked teriffically. I was able to wander a good 100m away from my camp and still locate it easily. I was always carefull to check behind me regularly as i was venturing out that I could still see the torch (also, to make sure noone nicked my very expensive torch..)

Now that I was leaving my TK40 at camp, i was scouting for building materials using the TK10 (on low to conserve battery). One thing the Zebralight just cannot do, even on high, is throw, so i was glad I had the TK10 for this. I would have used the TK20 for this but I had stolen 1 of the batteries for the Zebralight.

Anyway, I got a fire going, got dry (i started off wet) and built myself a nice cosy shelter that I would have been able to sleep in, had I not had to go to work tomorrow, which sadly I do.

So, top 10 lessons learned in dot point form:
1. Of all the torches I own, the one I need most in the bush is the Zebralight. I can do everything with it I need to, though I can do some things better with other torches. However, had I not had the others, I'm sure i still would have done OK, it would have taken a little bit longer to find good ridge poles and what not, but still..
2. The second best torch (assuming no H501) would be the TK20. Good color rendition, plus, due to the rubber grip, i can hold it reasonably well in my mouth.
3. Best secondary torch (assuming I do have the H501) would definitly be the TK40 for its bright beacon, and bright searching capabilities.
4. The first thing I will die of if I am stuck in the bush with my EDC is dehydration. I can cover fire and shelter.
5. I cant really remedy point 4 without carrying around a steel cup everywhere, which I dont see me doing.
6. I should give my Gerber Tracer to someone I dont like for Christmas. All of my other torches are wonderfull.
7. (This one is a lesson from way before today.. but the Bic is a new addition..) Using a lighter to light a fire is easy. Using a firesteel and striker is not (I have never successfully lit a fire with a steel and striker..)
8. The saw on my leatherman is too short to cut anything usefull.
9. If its just stopped raining, and your still 90% dry, dont sit on a wet log. Get the fire going first and try it out then sit.
10. The heat from a fire is only slightly more pleasant than the smoke from it is annoying.


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## strinq (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

After reading countless threads and reviews and experiences, i've come to the same conclusion. 
A headlamp is a must for a lot of outdoor activities, followed my a thrower. Like the TS mentioned, you can do almost everything with a versatile headlamp like the Zabralights, only thing you can't do is see something far away which in most cases is not necessary. 

I'm just waiting for the warm version of the H30, i don't get why zebralights didn't come out with that when they released the warm versions of the AA and 18650 lights...


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## Kestrel (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

This, good sir, is a great experiment, thank you very much. I particularly like thinking of the aspect of finding good tinder with a light having poor color rendition - in addition, I am also imagining being wet & hypothermic and needing every small edge to get a fire going. I'll be reading your initial post thoroughly for a second time, great 'lessons learned' conclusion.


AusKipper said:


> Anyway I looked around, couldnt find the camp site (I didnt take a map, but I was never lost, I just couldnt find the camp site)


When Thoreau was spending time in the Allagash wilderness in Maine (prior to writing 'Walden'), he had an Indian guide who insisted (on one or perhaps more than one occasion - it wasn't clear) that they weren't actually lost - they knew exactly where they were (i.e. right here). However, *the camp was lost* - i.e. where was the campsite? I enjoy thinking about the different perspective.


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## vali (Jul 1, 2009)

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I think he knew where he was, but was unable to find where the camp was, because he never were there.

Just an example: You are used to camp in a mountain named "X" and know every single tree there. Then a group of friends told you they will be camping in the "X" mountain and you wanted to pay a visit to them. It can happens you cant find your friends campbase, but you are not lost either.

Or it can be he couldnt be able to find his own campsite...


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## Hogokansatsukan (Jul 1, 2009)

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AusKipper said:


> 5. I cant really remedy point 4 without carrying around a steel cup everywhere, which I dont see me doing..


 
Gerber bottle liners work great. The zip top kind, not the ones with wire ties.



AusKipper said:


> 7. (This one is a lesson from way before today.. but the Bic is a new addition..) Using a lighter to light a fire is easy. Using a firesteel and striker is not (I have never successfully lit a fire with a steel and striker..)..


 
Put some cotton balls and Vasaline in your first aid kit. A little Vasaline on a cotton ball will start with the smallest of sparks, and burn well enough to get dry tinder going. Works good on blisters as well.



AusKipper said:


> 8. The saw on my leatherman is too short to cut anything usefull.


 
SAS wire saw is the best of the wire saws. A lot better, but more bulky is the Pocket Chain Saw. I've cut 6 inch diameter logs with this, with not much effort.

Great review.:twothumbs


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## AusKipper (Jul 1, 2009)

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vali said:


> I think he knew where he was, but was unable to find where the camp was, because he never were there.



Correct, I was on a fairly major road, I just couldn't find the turnoff to the camp. I found lots and lots of turnoffs onto small tracks (one of which i took in the end for the above experiment to get off the beaten track a bit) but no turnoff labeled "campsite" or similar. 



Hogokansatsukan said:


> Gerber bottle liners work great. The zip top kind, not the ones with wire ties.



Thanks for the tip. I was thinking I may just add a plastic bag to my EDC, but that wont allow me to boil water. I dont really need it, the chance of me getting stuck in the bush with just my EDC is minimal. My chance of survival out there with my EDC would probably be well above average anyhow. (I know being above average wont save my life if i need that equipment, but its all I can hope to strive for without carrying around the BOB)

My EDC is geared towards what I need every day (opening boxes, pulling apart PC's, finding my way in the dark, urban power outages, making my lunch...) not towards wilderness survival at all, and I dont really plan to change that..



Hogokansatsukan said:


> Put some cotton balls and Vasaline in your first aid kit. A little Vasaline on a cotton ball will start with the smallest of sparks, and burn well enough to get dry tinder going. Works good on blisters as well.



Thanks for the tip. My little first aid kit is allready stuffed full now, I just dont think there is room for that + steel and striker + lighter (which i wont be ditching any time soon..) I do have a flint and steel in my "kit" without tinder, I think I will test your suggestion and if it works i'll add it there.



Hogokansatsukan said:


> SAS wire saw is the best of the wire saws. A lot better, but more bulky is the Pocket Chain Saw. I've cut 6 inch diameter logs with this, with not much effort.



I have never had any success with the "wiresaws", however I do have a pocket chainsaw in my "kit" and i agree it works extremely well but is too big/unneccessary for EDC. I also have a saw-back machete which works reasonably. The next additions to my kit are a folding saw (which should work really well  ) and hammock and then I should be pretty much right.. (though I have been camping plenty of times with what I have and have done just fine anyway.. just minor tweaking now..)

Anyway, long story short, I think my EDC is fairly good, and dont plan to change it after the above experiment.

Another thing I EDC which I ALWAYS completly forget I have on me is a "swiss card" which has a magnifying glass (and other tools). Next time I go out in daytime I may try light a fire with that. Unlimited matches then  (though I think it will be too small).


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## polkiuj (Jul 2, 2009)

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strinq said:


> After reading countless threads and reviews and experiences, i've come to the same conclusion.
> A headlamp is a must for a lot of outdoor activities, followed my a thrower. Like the TS mentioned, you can do almost everything with a versatile headlamp like the Zabralights, only thing you can't do is see something far away which in most cases is not necessary.
> 
> I'm just waiting for the warm version of the H30, i don't get why zebralights didn't come out with that when they released the warm versions of the AA and 18650 lights...


It's OUT!! Mwahaha!


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## strinq (Jul 2, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Eh the H30 warm version is out?
Don't see it at their website.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 2, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



AusKipper said:


> Another thing I EDC which I ALWAYS completly forget I have on me is a "swiss card" which has a magnifying glass (and other tools). Next time I go out in daytime I may try light a fire with that. Unlimited matches then  (though I think it will be too small).



I have a Tool Logic card in my wallet with a magnifying glass - but it is way too small. It is only around 1/2" in diameter and focusing the amount on sunlight that falls on a 1/2" circle onto a small spot would be not enough I wouldn't think. If you had a 2" magnifying glass (or bigger of course) and focused the sunlight falling onto that down to a fairly small point then you would probably have enough heat to light a fire. Then again a small lighter is smaller than a 2" magnifying glass and can light a fire at night.


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## Hogokansatsukan (Jul 2, 2009)

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KiwiMark said:


> I have a Tool Logic card in my wallet with a magnifying glass - but it is way too small. It is only around 1/2" in diameter and focusing the amount on sunlight that falls on a 1/2" circle onto a small spot would be not enough I wouldn't think. If you had a 2" magnifying glass (or bigger of course) and focused the sunlight falling onto that down to a fairly small point then you would probably have enough heat to light a fire. Then again a small lighter is smaller than a 2" magnifying glass and can light a fire at night.


 
Get a Fresnel lens the size of a credit card and toss it in your wallet. They work great. Can sometimes find them in book shops, but are online as well.


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## AusKipper (Jul 2, 2009)

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Hogokansatsukan said:


> Get a Fresnel lens the size of a credit card and toss it in your wallet. They work great. Can sometimes find them in book shops, but are online as well.



Credit card sized Fresnel lens has been added to my "to buy" list 

No doubt it will be just like my swiss card and I will consistently forget that I have it.

Back in the day when I just started carrying a Leatherman I remember several times hunting around in the shed looking for a screwdriver then remembering... oh, I have one in my pocket. Now I never do that. Hopefully if I remember to use my Swisscard more often, I will stop forgetting I have that too. 

Maybe I should make a routine, every day for a week i'll pull it out, check all the tools are present, and put it back. Then, hopefully after that I'll remember I have it


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## HoopleHead (Jul 2, 2009)

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Great experiment!

You might want to check out the Platypus bottles. They roll up and can hold quite a bit.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009RNVB4/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Both Kershaw and Gerber make really decent cheap light folding or retractable saws.


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## AusKipper (Jul 2, 2009)

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HoopleHead said:


> Great experiment!
> 
> You might want to check out the Platypus bottles. They roll up and can hold quite a bit.
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009RNVB4/?tag=cpf0b6-20
> ...



Thanks. A * Gerber Gator Pack Saw GR9481* is on the to-buy list. 

As for the water, the main issue is boiling it after extracting it from stagnant ponds etc, so it really needs to be something metallic. Ray Mears would whip something up from wood or something... i'm sure I would probably do the same before I died, or simply drink it straight from the water holes without boiling and hope I dont get sick. As it was just a drill I didnt bother risking it.

Next time I go i'm going to carve a bowl out of a thickish green branch with my EDC (probably both the Leatherman and the Benchmade), put some water in it, and see if it boils 

Because it had just been raining in this particular case the water in the puddles was probably fresh enough anyway...


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## Hogokansatsukan (Jul 3, 2009)

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HoopleHead said:


> Great experiment!
> 
> You might want to check out the Platypus bottles. They roll up and can hold quite a bit.
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009RNVB4/?tag=cpf0b6-20
> ...


 
Those are great. Pick up some Micropur MP1 tablets. They are packaged individually, so easy to put one or two in your med kit.

Write a list of everything in your med kit and that you edc. Keep the list in your wallet and read it daily for a week. After that, pull it out and read it once per month. Do the same with your BOB but keep the list with the BOB. If you ever need it, the first thing you do is read the list and inventory what you have.


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## AusKipper (Jul 3, 2009)

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Hogokansatsukan said:


> Those are great. Pick up some Micropur MP1 tablets. They are packaged individually, so easy to put one or two in your med kit.
> 
> Write a list of everything in your med kit and that you edc. Keep the list in your wallet and read it daily for a week. After that, pull it out and read it once per month. Do the same with your BOB but keep the list with the BOB. If you ever need it, the first thing you do is read the list and inventory what you have.



Dont worry, Everything in my BOB is well and truly inventoried 

I did that long ago so if it was ever stolen/lost i would be able to re-buy everything without forgetting critical items. I can also tell the insurance company what they are buying if it was stolen.

It also helps because I am regularly pinching stuff out of it to use (i know, i know, i should buy extras and try not to steal stuff..) and I can go through it now and again (normally when I am swapping batteries over) and re-check everything is present.

It also came in handy a few months ago, when the news put out an alert stating everyone should have a list of items (missing lots of items.. including water!!!) incase they need to stay at home for 2 weeks (swine flu) I could send out my inventory to people that asked me what they should put in their bags (i'm well known in my circle of friends for being over-prepared lol, so i'm the go-to person for all things preparedness).

I did manage to delete 3/4 of my list before handing it out.. but even so there was still 3x as much stuff as the article recommended.

As for the purification tabs, the reason I dont have any of them is they have a shelf life, and I hate everything with a shelf life with a pashion


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## hyperloop (Jul 3, 2009)

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AusKipper said:


> I would have used the TK20 for this but I had stolen 1 of the batteries for the Zebralight.



cool! think that having lights that use the same type of cells makes things a lot more versatile


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## AusKipper (Jul 3, 2009)

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hyperloop said:


> cool! think that having lights that use the same type of cells makes things a lot more versatile



lol, no actually, that was a bit of severe battery mismanagement. I EDC my Zebra, I dont EDC my TK20 or any other AA light. As it turned out, the battery in my Zebra was flat (I hadnt locked it out last time I put it in my pocket, or I had used it more than I thought since last recharge) so if I hadnt had any of the lights I "conveniently had for testing purposes" I would not have had my Zebralight either. 

I do the same with my TK10 as well, use it till it starts flickering (normally about 2 weeks) and then change over the battery. If I get unlucky and get stuck just before I have swapped the battery I am going to end up out there without much light.

I purchased some extra batteries last week, so I can establish a good swap routine (probably weekly) whether the batteries in my EDC are flat or not, they will be swapped and tested then.

*edit*
I'm not disagreeing that lights using the same cells are more versatile, that is certainly true, I am just saying all my EDC's use different cells..


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## John_Galt (Jul 3, 2009)

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The only good flashlight I own is my Fenix LD20. Multimode, and good color rendition. second best is my mini Mag-LED. I do admit that it picks up reds slightly better than the LD20, tho.


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## LightWalker (Jul 3, 2009)

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You should not fully discharge Li-ion batteries, this goes for cellphones as well. Batteryuniversity.com


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## AusKipper (Jul 3, 2009)

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LightWalker said:


> You should not fully discharge Li-ion batteries, this goes for cellphones as well. Batteryuniversity.com



Im not sure how far "fully discharged" the batteries are ones it (the TK10) starts flickering. I do know that i'm not supposed to full discharge Li-Ion though, because it shortens the battery life.. Anyway, new batteries should arrive next week and it will happen no longer.

All my other batteries are NIMH anyway.


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## old4570 (Jul 3, 2009)

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I think just about all the flashlights I own are good enough ...

Just depends on why your there ...

Ultrafire 502B SSC P7 , Lo = 100mA Med = 500mA Hi = 1.5+A 
Ultrafire 501B R2 , Driven hard .. Good thrower . 
Solarforce L2 SSC P7 Lo = 200mA Med = 1A Hi = 2A 
MTE SSC P7 Hi = 3A [ Throws as well as a R2 ] 

Navigation / SOS / search ? 

Solarforce L2M [ Mini ] Lo = 30mA Med = 350mA Hi = 1.2A 

For me , a Single 18650 Flashlight , + single RCR123A light , + single CR123A light . 

One of my SSC P7 or R2 > 18650 
A20 or WF-601C + CR123A Q5 5 mode twisty ...

Too much to chose from ...


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## AusKipper (Jul 3, 2009)

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old4570 said:


> I think just about all the flashlights I own are good enough ...
> 
> Just depends on why your there ...



Yes, Ultimately your just going to make do with what you have and just about any light (except a Gerber Tracer and maybe some tiny keychain lights) will be better than nothing. Its just that some lights make the task easier.

You really gotta go out there and do it yourself with your own lights to know for sure whats going to be the most useful.

On the day your just going to be using what you have on you though, and there will be less to chose from then  (unless your coming back from a torch convention...)


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## LightWalker (Jul 3, 2009)

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AusKipper said:


> Im not sure how far "fully discharged" the batteries are ones it (the TK10) starts flickering. I do know that i'm not supposed to full discharge Li-Ion though, because it shortens the battery life.. Anyway, new batteries should arrive next week and it will happen no longer.
> 
> All my other batteries are NIMH anyway.


 
Are they rechargable or primary?


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## AusKipper (Jul 3, 2009)

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LightWalker said:


> Are they rechargable or primary?



I have both. But I only use the primary's as backups, or in non-edc's that I use once in a blue moon.

In my TK10 i have some soshines and ultrafires currently (rechargables). Looking to upgrade someday to AW, probably once the ones i have become useless.


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## old4570 (Jul 4, 2009)

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AusKipper said:


> Yes, Ultimately your just going to make do with what you have and just about any light (except a Gerber Tracer and maybe some tiny keychain lights) will be better than nothing. Its just that some lights make the task easier.
> 
> You really gotta go out there and do it yourself with your own lights to know for sure whats going to be the most useful.
> 
> On the day your just going to be using what you have on you though, and there will be less to chose from then  (unless your coming back from a torch convention...)



Ive been out there with a cheap Luxeon that put out maybe 1W , and it was up to the task , only problem was run time , sucking some 700mA and putting out some 700Lux of throw @ 1 meter [ CR123A ] 

Thats where the Cree multi modes are just fantastic ...
As long as the light / battery combo can give decent run time , then you may have a usable flashlight





Above are whats at hand - All bush worthy ..






Solarforce lantern - screws into L2 bodies - Flashlight and lantern in a very small package that can go with you ...


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## AusKipper (Jul 10, 2009)

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old4570 said:


> Solarforce lantern - screws into L2 bodies - Flashlight and lantern in a very small package that can go with you ...



You shouldn't post things like that... you'll have me blowing more of my money on torches I dont need  

(the Zebralight is my lantern, the Zebralight is my lantern, do not need to buy a solarforce lantern.... must keep my money in the bank... You would never have it on you when you need it anyway..)


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## Blindasabat (Jul 10, 2009)

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Excellent write-up and a good read.

I like my Zebralight H30 a lot too. It came with a warm Q5 that works OK outside - nothing like truly neutral or warm emitters, but good enough. It's lack of throw as you found out is limiting for searching quickly (if that is all you have). You have to walk more of a search pattern looking close to you to find things like fire & shelter materials. That's fine as you have found if you have other lights like you had, but I try to plan for failure of my primary lights (and backups).
So I prefer a more balanced beam for all around use in case I am stuck with only one remaining light - especially my headlight. I have modded a PT EOS with a 15 degree optic and Luxeon SV1H star that gives it a well balanced beam for distance on high (and even medium) but great moderate flood with a soft spot on low. Too floody is a waste of lumens to me. I often have to use the H30 on medium when I would still be using the EOS on low - negating its efficiency & runtime advantage. Of course I don't like the bigger size, order of modes (hi-med-low), and 3AAA power of the EOS, so the search for the great 1AA or 1CR123 headlight with good balance of features continues.

Interesting use of the flashing mode of the TK. I typically carry a Novatac for a locator beacon (EOS as backup beacon) on trips. A long pause-short flash beacon is great for that.

Multi-modes are essential unless you have a couple of complimentary lights - one with low only maybe.

Hey old what are numbers 3, 4, & 5 in that picture (the small ones?


old4570 said:


> Thats where the Cree multi modes are just fantastic ...
> As long as the light / battery combo can give decent run time , then you may have a usable flashlight
> 
> http://www.photofreek.com/view-353_zzzx.jpg
> Above are whats at hand - All bush worthy ..


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## SuperLightMan (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Third one is definitely an Ultrafire A20 (cr123a-powered)


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## callmaster (Jul 11, 2009)

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You can also feel the wood to tell if it's dry enough for fires, etc. A very big difference between green wet and dry wood.


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## AusKipper (Jul 14, 2009)

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Hogokansatsukan said:


> Put some cotton balls and Vasaline in your first aid kit. A little Vasaline on a cotton ball will start with the smallest of sparks, and burn well enough to get dry tinder going. Works good on blisters as well.



Well, 2 weeks later...

Finally went to the shops and brought both cotton balls and vaseline. Smeared vaseline all over the cotton ball, got the fire steel thingo out, and poof, nice ball of flame first go 

So I think i'll make a couple up and stuff them in the first aid kit. The steel/striker wont fit in there, but it will make it easier to light a fire with the lighter.


While I was there I got a couple of fire lighters, and nope, you cannot light a fire lighter with a firesteel thing (well, not when your not desperate anyway, i may have got it going if i kept trying more than a few times).


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## jankj (Jul 14, 2009)

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Congratulations on your experiment, you just gave me another nudge to buy another zebralight! lovecpf



AusKipper said:


> As for the water, the main issue is boiling it after extracting it from stagnant ponds etc, so it really needs to be something metallic. Ray Mears would whip something up from wood or something... i'm sure I would probably do the same before I died, or simply drink it straight from the water holes without boiling and hope I dont get sick. As it was just a drill I didnt bother risking it.



Agree completely as far as parasites and the like, those can be treated later. But an acute stomach sickness is the LAST thing you want to deal with in a survival situation. 

If you search for it, you can find some advise about using alu-foil to fashion a cup, and you can find reviews that this does not really work well at all... In theory, you can boil in a paper cup, which is easy to demonstrate in the lab and almost impossible to do in the field. 

My advise is to research a bit more on the use of iodine... A small bottle of iodine tincture 2% should be easy to squeeze into your kit.

EDIT: A very, very old and well-proven method is to heat stones and add them to whatever holds the water. That way, you can boil water in basically anything that is bowl-shaped, provided it doesn't leak or melt.


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## SureAddicted (Jul 14, 2009)

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AusKipper said:


> Ray Mears would whip something up from wood or something...




What Ray Mears uses and recommends is a SureFire E1L, he also sells it on his website. In Ray Mears goes walkabout, Rockart, he uses his E1L in the caves.


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## AusKipper (Jul 14, 2009)

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jankj said:


> EDIT: A very, very old and well-proven method is to heat stones and add them to whatever holds the water. That way, you can boil water in basically anything that is bowl-shaped, provided it doesn't leak or melt.



 I remember seeing something like that once.. i didnt remember to do it though!! Next time maybe.

As for the al-foil cup, i was thinking of something like that, it would have to be small, but survivors cant be choosers, also the alfoil in my kit would make an emergency switch for my TK10.

Actually I think i'll go out and add some right now...


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## AusKipper (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



SureAddicted said:


> What Ray Mears uses and recommends is a SureFire E1L, he also sells it on his website. In Ray Mears goes walkabout, Rockart, he uses his E1L in the caves.



True that. He also uses it on the "desert island" episode of extreme survival. Everything on his site is ridiculously over priced also...

While watching Ray Mears is certainly better than watching big brother or something, its not quite as educational as I would like.

Tin foil and two Vaseline covered cotton balls wrapped in cling wrap have now been added to the mini first aid kit at the cost of 2 (from 4) of the tissues.


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## SureAddicted (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



AusKipper said:


> Tin foil and two Vaseline covered cotton balls wrapped in cling wrap have now been added to the mini first aid kit at the cost of 2 (from 4) of the tissues.




Smart idea, I've done the same.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Good read - I always like preparedness info. I've known about the vaseline covered cotton balls for quite a while but have not added that to my EDC. I'm thinking I'll go for one of those little tubes of vaseline and a hand full of cotton balls squashed down into a plastic zip lock bag. That way I can make them as needed and the vaseline won't get on other things or melt off in a bag (as I think it might do under hot summer temps). My EDC is probably bigger than a lot of people would have but I think the idea of keeping a small tube with the cotton balls separate may work for smaller kits too if you take less cotton and a partial vasleline tube rolled up. I think I've seen these as small as finger size - might be the ones made for lip balm.

While I haven't used it much (recently acquired) I think FirstLight USA's angle head flashlight might be a good combination of a very small light that can be clipped on pants, shirt etc with a forward light pattern that has both throw and a lot of light or can be held with the finger loop making it somewhat of a cross between a headlamp and a hand held all in one unit. It's a fairly unique light that hasn't had a lot of attention on CPF and this might be a good unit for such situations. I'm not sure it would be my first choice since I haven't used it enough to know how useful it will be in a real survival situation but I think it's worth mentioning.


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## sdlotus (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

I like the headlamps also.I just need the light that is a good thrower to go with it.For the water a few years ago some one made a collapsible cup.May have been aluminun.Would fold flat not sure any one makes these today


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## AusKipper (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



sdlotus said:


> I like the headlamps also.I just need the light that is a good thrower to go with it.For the water a few years ago some one made a collapsible cup.May have been aluminun.Would fold flat not sure any one makes these today



I did a quick google and found some stainless steel ones.

Unfortunately they do look a bit big to EDC, and i'm not sure how water tight they would be, or how well they would stand up to being put directly on the fire, however, if they did stand up to being put on the fire and where water tight they would sort of make good replacements to the cups I have in my backpack (I say sort of because the ones in my backpack have things stuffed in/around them, so they sort of take up no space anyway...)

Hmm, to order or not to order...

They do come in smaller sizes, perhaps if i got the smallest it would be small enough to edc.. at least in winter when I am wearing a coat.


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## bansuri (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



AusKipper said:


> (the Zebralight is my lantern, the Zebralight is my lantern, do not need to buy a solarforce lantern.... must keep my money in the bank... You would never have it on you when you need it anyway..)



Thanks for that mantra, it's working... for now.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

I've got one of the collapsible SS cups that is quite small - roughly 2" or so in diameter and around 3/4" thick. I've seen them around online but found mine in a garage sale - worth every penny I paid for it (25 cents)


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## Tony Hanna (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

For the water purification end of things, what about those "military water purification tablets"? If they work as well as claimed, then you wouldn't have to worry about carrying a metal container to boil in. I've never had any experience with them but they seem like an option worth looking into.


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## AusKipper (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



Tony Hanna said:


> For the water purification end of things, what about those "military water purification tablets"? If they work as well as claimed, then you wouldn't have to worry about carrying a metal container to boil in. I've never had any experience with them but they seem like an option worth looking into.



They unfortunately have a shortish shelf life, and i dont like things with a shelf life  (because I would forget to cycle etc, constantly having to buy more etc etc)


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## old4570 (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



Blindasabat said:


> Excellent write-up and a good read.
> 
> I like my Zebralight H30 a lot too. It came with a warm Q5 that works OK outside - nothing like truly neutral or warm emitters, but good enough. It's lack of throw as you found out is limiting for searching quickly (if that is all you have). You have to walk more of a search pattern looking close to you to find things like fire & shelter materials. That's fine as you have found if you have other lights like you had, but I try to plan for failure of my primary lights (and backups).
> So I prefer a more balanced beam for all around use in case I am stuck with only one remaining light - especially my headlight. I have modded a PT EOS with a 15 degree optic and Luxeon SV1H star that gives it a well balanced beam for distance on high (and even medium) but great moderate flood with a soft spot on low. Too floody is a waste of lumens to me. I often have to use the H30 on medium when I would still be using the EOS on low - negating its efficiency & runtime advantage. Of course I don't like the bigger size, order of modes (hi-med-low), and 3AAA power of the EOS, so the search for the great 1AA or 1CR123 headlight with good balance of features continues.
> ...



3= Counterfeit A20 Ultrafire [ Now moded to SSC P7 ] 
4= Q5 5mode Twisty Mod 
5= Ultrafire 602C

All are 1xCR123A 3.7v


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## Tony Hanna (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



AusKipper said:


> They unfortunately have a shortish shelf life, and i dont like things with a shelf life  (because I would forget to cycle etc, constantly having to buy more etc etc)



I wasn't aware of the shelf life and I completely understand. It would really stink to be in a SHTF situation and then get sick on top of it because the water tabs had expired. I can see how the finite usability could play into it long-term also (running out of tabs vs. being able to boil water indefinitely with a metal cup).
Oh well, figured them worth mention anyway.


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## Egsise (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Nice test AusKipper, I have missed that totally.
My setup for hunting etc. is quite similar:
ZL H50(Q5, I wish it would be 5A)
TK20(Q2 5A)
Preordered Quark AA Q3 5A(Slow beacon, FINALLY!)

All use AA NiMH, lithiums for emergency.
Diffuser cones for TK20 and Quark AA are a must.
Those three are not too heavy if I have to carry them 5-10 miles a day.

I'm thinking of buying the Fenix headband, ZL H50 should fit in it, Quark AA on the side...


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## AusKipper (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



Egsise said:


> ZL H50(Q5, I wish it would be 5A)



My Zebra is a Q5 (ie, not a warm version) and I like it just fine.

It has good color rendition compared to the Gerber, which spits out some nasty blue light...

I have never had (or seen) a warm (or neutral) H50/501 so I cant really compare but I imagine I would be just as happy with the Q5 as the 5A.


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## AusKipper (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



Tony Hanna said:


> I wasn't aware of the shelf life and I completely understand.



Yeah, i'm not sure if the shelf life is "real" or not, ie sugar has use-by dates on the pack, but we all know it stores pretty much indefinitely. I know bleach actually does deteriorate over time, but i'm not sure about the chlorine/iodine tablets.... I would rather not take the chance


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## Woods Walker (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

I have used both the H501w and TK20 in the woods camping and on night hikes. Found the H501w near prefect for camp but not so good bushwhacking as the flood light does not have enough throw and have been turned around a few times testing it out for this purpose. For a real warm tint fun time try both the H501w and TK20. The TK20 is more throw than flood so the H501w on low or medium illuminates the ground and area around me as the TK20 does the throw. Both on high is total warm tint illumination! But to be honest if I am counting ounces the TK20 gets left home. On the gear the Bic lighter works great. I have found lost Bics in the woods and the darn things still work once dried off. They do have issues during winter camping and need to be warmed in my pocket or hands first. Don’t be so fast to bash good old campfire smoke. Seems bugs don’t like it either and this is a good thing. Also a better setup and fuel selection can help produce a cleaner burning fire and it helps to not be sitting in the direction of the prevailing winds. A sil nylon poncho is also a nice gear items. Dehydration is a killer for sure. I would run the risk of drinking unfiltered water rather than going without for days. But you can get an “Aquamira® *FRONTIER*™ Personal Survival Water Filter *Straw” *


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## Hogokansatsukan (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



matrixshaman said:


> Good read - I always like preparedness info. I've known about the vaseline covered cotton balls for quite a while but have not added that to my EDC. I'm thinking I'll go for one of those little tubes of vaseline and a hand full of cotton balls squashed down into a plastic zip lock bag. That way I can make them as needed and the vaseline won't get on other things or melt off in a bag (as I think it might do under hot summer temps). My EDC is probably bigger than a lot of people would have but I think the idea of keeping a small tube with the cotton balls separate may work for smaller kits too if you take less cotton and a partial vasleline tube rolled up. I think I've seen these as small as finger size - might be the ones made for lip balm.
> 
> While I haven't used it much (recently acquired) I think FirstLight USA's angle head flashlight might be a good combination of a very small light that can be clipped on pants, shirt etc with a forward light pattern that has both throw and a lot of light or can be held with the finger loop making it somewhat of a cross between a headlamp and a hand held all in one unit. It's a fairly unique light that hasn't had a lot of attention on CPF and this might be a good unit for such situations. I'm not sure it would be my first choice since I haven't used it enough to know how useful it will be in a real survival situation but I think it's worth mentioning.


 
The Tomohawk is a very good light. I don't edc it a lot though because it takes up too much space on my belt, though the reality is, it still is quite small. Here's a comparison of the lights. Background is squares are 1 inch.





I have the clip removed from the Tomohawk.


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## AusKipper (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



Hogokansatsukan said:


>



Whats that rubber looking thing on the head of the Zebralight? Did the hold H50 come with that? or is it home made? I assume its to protect the light/stop the light getting in your own eyes correct?

The most fancy home made modification I ever make to my torches is wrapping them in gaffa tape to keep my hands warm/stop it getting scratched, but that looks like it would do a better job at protecting it (at least if you had one on the tail as well...)

Woods_Walker: If I am going into the bush intentionally I take a backpack with all that fancy stuff in it (including my TK20  ). If I had had my backpack with me I could have survived in comfort easily for 2+ weeks. 

If it had been summer I only have 5 litres of water so that again would kill me before 2 weeks is up. No running creeks in my area in summer. Maybe I could have dug down, but I think water would be my death again, unless a bush fire killed me first.

(only 5 litres of water lol, its nearly 1/4 of my pack weight)

If I had to grab and go in a hurry I would only have 3 litres of water because I dont keep the water bladder full. Still, better than none.


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## Hogokansatsukan (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

The zebra light came with that rubber thing. It does help to keep the light out of your eyes.
I can relate to water. Summer in the Sonoran Desert will kill you pretty fast without it.
I do keep two MIOX purifiers, a Katadyne Pocket filter, Katadyne Mini, and Steripen Traveler with a solar CR123 charger in various bug-out gear, just in case I do find a tank with water in it.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



Hogokansatsukan said:


> The zebra light came with that rubber thing. It does help to keep the light out of your eyes.
> I can relate to water. Summer in the Sonoran Desert will kill you pretty fast without it.
> I do keep two MIOX purifiers, a Katadyne Pocket filter, Katadyne Mini, and Steripen Traveler with a solar CR123 charger in various bug-out gear, just in case I do find a tank with water in it.



+1 on the Katadyn's - the pocket filter is good for 50,000 liters and has a 20 year warranty. It also is silver impregnated which is a big help in killing bacteria. Got mine several years ago. 

I've never been to big on the MIOX though - pricey, seems overly big on hi-tech but does not produce much volume of water. Also needs batteries to funciton and replacement parts if used much. The only situation I can think where one might be helpful would be if you were too injured to pump the Katadyn.


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## Hogokansatsukan (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

The Miox actually work quite well, but you do need to have some spare batteries around. I like that fact that they kill viruses, which no filter can filter out. They are just too small. Even the filters that have the "iodine screen" actually don't kill the viruses. I'm just paranoid, but I've been in a situation where I could have used it, and didn't have it (wasn't invented at that time).


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## matrixshaman (Jul 16, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



Hogokansatsukan said:


> The Miox actually work quite well, but you do need to have some spare batteries around. I like that fact that they kill viruses, which no filter can filter out. They are just too small. Even the filters that have the "iodine screen" actually don't kill the viruses. I'm just paranoid, but I've been in a situation where I could have used it, and didn't have it (wasn't invented at that time).



I guess I may want to revisit the info on the MIOX. Having a strong chemistry and microbiology background I'd like to know exactly how it kills virii. I don't think it's a real complex process but so far in reading the info on the MIOX I don't have a good feel for exactly what it uses but that may be their way of protecting their technology. I know of 'zappers' that can kill everything in a liquid but those need batteries also. Since they mention electrolysis it may be nothing more than running a current through the water (with a little salt of some sort added - maybe potassium chloride rather than sodium chloride). 

Sorry to the OP if we are getting a little off topic here but it seems to have become somewhat of a preparedness thread - one of my strong interests.


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## gsxrac (Jul 16, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

While everybodys talking about water purification tablets I would suggest using them as a last ditch effort, from what I understand about them alot of them contain iodine and iodine will severly weaken your kidneys if you ingest too much of it.

Right now I dont have any kind of water filtration or purification stuff in my BOB but I do have a few bottles of water in there. Eventually when I can afford it id like to buy one of the battery powered water purifiers. Since the MSR MIOX uses 2 123's maybe it can use RCR's? anybody tried this?

Ohh yea I still havent gotten an H30? Id say its about time! It also seems like a great idea to test your BOB and BOE in a real life situation without the added stress of actually being in danger. Could be invalueable if you ever have to truly "bug out"


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## jankj (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



gsxrac said:


> While everybodys talking about water purification tablets I would suggest using them as a last ditch effort, from what I understand about them alot of them contain iodine and iodine will severly weaken your kidneys if you ingest too much of it.



Your body needs a very, very small quantity of iodine, but ingesting a few grams will kill you... Personally, I live in an area where water treatment is considered unnecessary in the bush, as long as the water is rapid flowing and not directly from an area contaminated by human activity or livestock. Such fresh streams are generally easy to find. However, you may find your self unable to move to a favorable water source. 

I recommend reading Cody Lundins book 96.8: The art of keeping your *ss alive . Some highlights about water treatment: 


Iodine is poisonous, but...
No ill effects has been documented at the doses relevant for water treatment. _(Newer studies may prove otherwise)._ Don't use it for prolonged periods, though.
The proper usage and dosage of iodine depends of how the effect is modified by temperature and water quality. Requires some reading.
Water treated with high doses tastes like camel dung. Taste may be improved with sitrus flavor after the iodine has done its job.
Iodine tincture has a much longer shelf life than tablets, and is probably the vise choice for a survival kit.
Personally, I'd boil questionable water if at all possible. Absolutely sterile without any chemicals...


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## old4570 (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Yeah = Boil . 

I still remember a friend used to carry a very small bottle of Kerosene to start a fire under difficult conditions , such as snow / or rain . 
Wet wood can be a bear to light without an accelerate .
:wave:


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## AusKipper (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



jankj said:


> Personally, I live in an area where water treatment is considered unnecessary in the bush



Before I moved the nearest "bush" had year round running streams that I could drink straight from (and did on many occasions) with no ill effects.

However I am now in a new location and the only year round water is in dams 

if SHTF I would be trying to go back home home anyway where there are lots of large water tanks, also, soon i will have a water tank here, so where possible I will be bugging in.

I went out again last night with a friend, and took my full BOB, and learnt 2 things: 
1. I have lots of stuff and can live very comfortably for 7 days assuming no water is found, 3 weeks assuming I can find water
2. It all weights a tonne and while I can carry it OK'ish on flat ground but I can barely move up a hill!!

I reviewed all the contents of the bag this morning and decided I want to keep everything so I guess I need to get as fit as I once was  (shouldnt be too hard, just been so flat out recently no time for exercize).

I also decided I am going to make low weight, high speed low drag bag for just a couple of days that will also assume I dont have my EDC on me (current bag assumes I have my EDC).

As far as torches go this means I am going to have to buy another H501 and another TK20 as the only torches I have left sitting around doing nothing are an E20 (good torch, but I want the "best" in a BOB), TK11 (not AA, GPS is AA, AA solar chargers are cheap, so everything has to be AA) and the E01 (not AA).

Also going to have to buy 4 more eneloops..

15 hours overtime here I come ....


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## old4570 (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Shhhhhh this is a secret !

Have you tried a golf Buggy/caddy/cart , the two wheel folding ones , buy a strong one and just pull it behind you .

I went looking at tents today , and all the nice ones weighed so much , then I thought - 2 wheel buggy .


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## AusKipper (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



old4570 said:


> Shhhhhh this is a secret !
> 
> Have you tried a golf Buggy/caddy/cart , the two wheel folding ones , buy a strong one and just pull it behind you .
> 
> I went looking at tents today , and all the nice ones weighed so much , then I thought - 2 wheel buggy .



That would be good with a path, or light off road stuff, even dirt roads and scrub it could handle.. but I dont think it would have helped with the.. almost cliff... I was going up 

I used to carry that amount of weight walking 20km a day for 3 or 4 days in a row, I have just gotten slack recently. Need to get fitter again. Should only be 3 or 4 months work and I will be able to carry that bag without to much trouble (I mean I already can on the flat..).

As for tents, they are just trouble really, they are either cheap and leak, insanely expensive, or the good old canvas ones, that are too heavy to carry.

I now use "hootchies" exclusively. I take 2 hootchies, folding shovel, hammock, sleeping bag, paracord and self inflating mattress as my shelter/bedding. I improvise pegs out of sticks/rocks/trees i find onsite, saves carrying them.

I dont normally use the hammock, I generally just set up the hootchie, dig a trench around if I think it may rain, and use the second hootchie as a groundsheet if i feel like being clean, or set it up as an additional roof If i want that...

If its going to be freezing cold instead of having the "roof" hootchie up in the trees (like I normally do) you can peg it to the ground, get a stick of the right lenth at one end to keep it off the ground. Lay the second hootchie inside making sure you sort of fold the edges up (so the water goes underneath). Then you can get the shovel, dig a trench around and lightly cover the edge of the "tent" to keep the breeze out.

There is of course still one open end of the tent, so you need to try and aim this away from the wind, and/or build a wind-break out of sticks and dirt (remember you have a shovel now.. ).

If your short enough to crawl down the end and pull up the groundsheet to block the entrance you can do that, unfortunatly I am not lol.

In summary, Hootchies are better because they are simple, light, cheapish and adaptable. For the space of 1 tent you could carry 4 of them, imagine the options then


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## Egsise (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Yeah tents are a bit tricky, i like laavu(kinda like lean-to) cause its simple and lightweight.





On this huntintrip(2005) the temperature was 32F(0C) at night but even it snowed a little it was not cold, we had decent sleeping bags.

We arrived at the campsite when it was getting dark, lightsources what we had was one UK 4AA incan, one cheap led headlamp and one incan+led headlamp.
What we would've needed was three adjustable power headlamps, and one flaslight with beacon mode and diffuser cone.
We had to get some wood for the night, and at that point the campfire was too small to be reliably seen when we wondered away from the campsite.

£#?*€#!, now i really have to buy that Fenix headband or Leatherman jakstrap, ZL H50w in the front and QuarkAA 5A on the side would've been perfect.
Hands free all the time, flood and throw, two is one etc...


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## matrixshaman (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

What kind of material are your hootchies? 


AusKipper said:


> That would be good with a path, or light off road stuff, even dirt roads and scrub it could handle.. but I dont think it would have helped with the.. almost cliff... I was going up
> 
> I used to carry that amount of weight walking 20km a day for 3 or 4 days in a row, I have just gotten slack recently. Need to get fitter again. Should only be 3 or 4 months work and I will be able to carry that bag without to much trouble (I mean I already can on the flat..).
> 
> ...


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## old4570 (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Yeah - Hootchies .. I was thinking of using a larger tents rain cover to make a hootchei , but then using a cheap tent under it ...

Was at ozzie disposals and they had a cheap tent , was nice and light , under $40 and still dual skinned .. or maybe those one man tent-swags . :thinking:


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## AusKipper (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



matrixshaman said:


> What kind of material are your hootchies?



Not sure, I think its nylon, heres a link to one:
http://www.kitbag.com.au/prod507.htm


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## AusKipper (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



old4570 said:


> Yeah - Hootchies .. I was thinking of using a larger tents rain cover to make a hootchei , but then using a cheap tent under it ...
> 
> Was at ozzie disposals and they had a cheap tent , was nice and light , under $40 and still dual skinned .. or maybe those one man tent-swags . :thinking:



Swags would have to be the warmest, most comfortable thing ever to sleep in in the bush, just as good as your bed at home, however, you cant really carry them. Certainly If i was going vehicle camping and wanted to be comfy I would take the swag.


Using a hoochie over a cheap tent sounds like a good idea to me for two reasons:

1. In summer your tent would be in the shade, thus keeping you cooler
2. In winter it would give you a layer above the tent that is definitely waterproof. I would still dig a small trench around my tent though to channel the water around the sides.

The pegs that come with cheap tents are more-or less just thick wire and will bend at every opportunity, but you can always improvise with sticks, or buy some better pegs.


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## AusKipper (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



Egsise said:


>



Now that looks like my kind of camp !  (minus the tranjia, i just use a normal gas cooker thingo, one of my friends swears by his tranjia though...)


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## KiwiMark (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

I am not too keen on buying stuff just to use in a major emergency (wtshtf) situation. I have lived for more than 40 years without such a situation happening to me. However, it is nice to be prepared so I have just added a little to my camping gear - if I can use it for camping then it isn't money spent to cover me in a situation that may never happen. I just bought a little single burner gas stove and gas cartridge along with a 3 piece Aluminium cookware set (frypan, pot & kettle). Now I can boil enough water for 2 cups of coffee/tea/milo/whatever in less than 3 minutes - this could also be used to boil some water that I could then let cool down and pour into a drink bottle for drinking when I can't find fresh uncontaminated water. Dual purpose for the win! :thumbsup:

I already have 2 tents (one smaller & lighter that is still big enough for 1 or 2 people and has been tested in wind & rain). I have a cheap synthetic sleeping bag for use at home and a good down filled one I use for camping. I have an inflatable bed roll which is insulated which keeps me warmer than sleeping on the cold ground. I can fit this gear on my motor scooter and go camping but I could see the value of the same gear in a major emergency.

I also have some torches . My LED lights that can run on 1 x 18650 are capable of running a LONG time on low modes. My 1 x AA & 2 x AA lights can be powered by more readily available batteries and also have low modes to allow long run times. I have chargers for Li-ion cells & for AAA & AA cells that can be run from 12V vehicle accessory sockets. I probably don't have the best torches possible for the task of surviving in the bush, but I am sure I could get by on my EDC lights alone. I also have a Leatherman Wave and a Victorinox Cyber Tool which I EDC - I would be glad to have those in a survival situation.

For bush survival luckily most bush in NZ has running water somewhere and that should be safe to drink. Maybe I should get a sheet of plastic that can be used as shelter as well as for collecting dew/rain.


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## AusKipper (Jul 20, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



KiwiMark said:


> For bush survival luckily most bush in NZ has running water somewhere and that should be safe to drink. Maybe I should get a sheet of plastic that can be used as shelter as well as for collecting dew/rain.



I wish I lived in NZ, that or Switzerland...

Of course snowboarding is expensive so as well as living in those countries I need a good income too 

I would recommend a hoochie for that use, (collecting water), just for the extra durability/versatility.

That, or figure some system to catch the water that runs off the tents... perhaps digging in a bucket and tying a weight to the middle of the side of the tent thus making a crease causing all the water to run off in the same spot into the bucket...

And I agree, Camping gear/Survival gear are pretty much the same thing!!  . Most of my "Survival Gear" is simply the stuff I take hiking.

Camping I can take some more weight, so I throw in some extra things that make life more comfortable (ie a swag!!)..


----------



## matrixshaman (Jul 20, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

A system for collecting water that I believe was in Tom Brown Jr.'s books is one I chose to have equipment for. I'll try to cover what I remember as I have not put this to use but I've seen it referenced as one of the better setups with minimum equipment. You just need a piece of plastic, a container of some sort and a length of small surgical tubing. It will also be easier if you have a shovel as you need to dig out/scrape out a small pit. Once you have a pit made you put the container in the bottom center of it. Then run the surgical tubing into the bottom of the container and up and out past the edge of the pit. Then cover the pit with the plastic and put a small rock or weight in the middle of the plastic after you have secured the edges of the plastic on top of the pit (with wood, rocks, dirt or anything you can find). Since the plastic is now weighted down in the middle just above the container (maybe a foot or so below the edge) moisture that will collect and condense on the plastic run down the underside of the plastic and drip into the container. The surgical tube lets you suck it out without having to disturb the setup. Because it is evaporated water that condenses on your (clean) plastic it should be quite safe to drink as it's essentially the same as distilled water. I just got all this from memory so if anyone is familiar with this and I don't have it quite right jump in and suggest any corrections.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 6, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



sdlotus said:


> I like the headlamps also.I just need the light that is a good thrower to go with it.For the water a few years ago some one made a collapsible cup.May have been aluminun.Would fold flat not sure any one makes these today



Just saw 2 of these stainless steel collapsible cups show up today in the 'new' items at DealeXtreme in case any one has been looking for them. I know they show up occassionaly on fleabay too.


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## jankj (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



matrixshaman said:


> A system for collecting water



Paraphrased as _dig a pit, put a bowl in there, put a surgical tube to suck water out of that bowl, seal the pit with clear plastic that is weighted down by a rock or whatever so the lowest point of the plastic is over the bowl. _Condensed water will now now drip into the bowl and you can suck it out with the pipe. 

This is also known as a solar still. I suggest you try it and see how much water you get. I can almost guarantee that technically it will work, but it will NOT produce anywhere near as much water as you need. You needs litres and gallons, but you get teaspoons. Sorry if I sound too harsh... but if you really need water NOW, you're better off preserving sweat sitting in the shade than trying to make a solar still.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

This idea comes from Tom Brown Jr. and is in his survival books. He doesn't usually recommend bad ideas but it may depend to an extent where you are located. However once it is built you don't use any more energy to get water other than laying down to suck on the tube. In a situation where there is NO other water I'll take a little over nothing. I know Tom Brown has used this. Have you tried it?


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## jankj (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Nope, never tried it - but I've read of someone who has, including Cody Lundgren and Ranger Rick. Combining their experience with simple physics and the amount of water available in soil tells me that this technique will work, but with feeble water production in most circumstances. _What does Tom Brown say about the specific production capacity of solar stills? Does he say anything about how it will change according to water content in soil? _

If you advocate this technique you need to tell people its limitations. A solar still will in most circumstances NOT produce enough water for one person. In fact, if you're in real trouble you're probably better off doing something else - including nothing, saving sweat and calories - than spend energy, time and sweat making a solar still. Sorry if this offends anyone - please prove me wrong by going into the bush, make a solar still and make a note of how much water you are getting. 

Of course, circumstances differ. With sufficient time and energy on your hands you might as well make one. It's probably a lot of fun and having at least a little taste of guaranteed clean water is probably worth the effort. But don't rely on this ingenious contraption to keep you tanked up!


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## AusKipper (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



jankj said:


> Of course, circumstances differ. With sufficient time and energy on your hands you might as well make one. It's probably a lot of fun and having at least a little taste of guaranteed clean water is probably worth the effort. But don't rely on this ingenious contraption to keep you tanked up!



I have tried it before at a camp, but we didnt have any clear plastic, so we tried with a garbage bag (black plastic)

We collected absolutely no water at all lol

You are supposed to put greenery in the hole I believe, so there is something to get the water from. I imagine it could work if done properly, on a summer day (dig the pit at night of course..), if you had some dam water or some other non-drinkable water handy, you could pour that around in the hole in the morning, and let it all condense during the day.

I'll have to try it someday  (it winter here at the moment... so it wont work for now..)


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## old4570 (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Dig a hole , shove lots of green leaves in there , then a container in the middle cover with clear plastic , weigh the plastic so that all h2o that evaporates flows into the container in the middle . 

Large hole + lots of green + sunny day = plenty of water .


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## AusKipper (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



old4570 said:


> Dig a hole , shove lots of green leaves in there , then a container in the middle cover with clear plastic , weigh the plastic so that all h2o that evaporates flows into the container in the middle .
> 
> Large hole + lots of green + sunny day = plenty of water .



Is this first hand experience or hearsay though?

Any idea on the quantity?

Another thing I just thought up was one could find a hole that is already in the landscape (ie old mine hole..) thus saving the effort of digging one..

Because its candlepowerforums, i better add that you could stick a TK40 in the bottom on Beacon mode so you can find your hole again at night..


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## Burgess (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Ahh , nice job ! :thumbsup:


For a moment, it seemed this thread was drifting off-topic.




_


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## [email protected] (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



AusKipper said:


> While watching Ray Mears is certainly better than watching big brother or something, its not quite as educational as I would like.



Try to catch a re-run of Les Hiddin's Bush Tuckerman series (or toss in the DVD instead), man that guy made interesting documentaries :thumbsup:

1 per man, per day, perhaps (reference to AA's beers supply) 




gsxrac said:


> While everybodys talking about water purification tablets I would suggest using them as a last ditch effort, from what I understand about them alot of them contain iodine and iodine will severly weaken your kidneys if you ingest too much of it.



I've always thought the method to capturing water by placing a plastic bag over a tree in a dry/arid environment (to catch the morning condensation) was pretty cool, equally clever was an adaption of the same theory creating a water catchment at the top of a dune in the desert to catch the condensation :thumbsup:


As for illumination devices for nightime bush survival... I don't own any headlamps and figure runtime would be a major factor too so I'm opting for my trusty P7 Maglite (however it's size would be it's detriment) :thinking:

Thanks to you CPF survivalists I'm now hooked on Les Stroud's Survivorman series


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## KiwiMark (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

So after reading many great suggestions about being more prepared I have ordered a H501 ahead of my next camping weekend. I have also been thinking about firestarting and in particular the jet lighter torches (plenty to choose from at dealextreme.com). Does anyone have any experience with using these to start a fire in the bush? I was thinking that the hotter jet flame would not only be more wind-resistant but may be more able to get wet wood to burn.

So - anyone? Does the hot 1300°C blue flame offer any advantages or disadvantages for fire starting in the bush, compared to a standard yellow flame?

I think I should add some kind of lighter to my EDC - you never know when you need one.


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## Mr Floppy (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



KiwiMark said:


> So - anyone? Does the hot 1300°C blue flame offer any advantages or disadvantages for fire starting in the bush, compared to a standard yellow flame?


It can help start a fire if the kindling is a little damp, not wet. 

It can also get a couple of coals started if you hold it long enough on some coals. 

Personally, I'd go for a stormproof/windproof lighter. They have this catalyzer element in them that keeps the flame going in very strong winds. I've managed to light a cigarette out the window of a car driving 70km/h


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## Egsise (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/197464

Those blue flame torches really rock, I got mine(a PB-207 pocket torch) when i went to army and trust me, theres no going back to bic lighters.
But remember, like flashlights, you get what you pay for.

Oh yeah i had one wind/stormproof lighter, Windmill etc design looks very much the same, mine was Silva helios.
It broke in a year.


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## old4570 (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



AusKipper said:


> Is this first hand experience or hearsay though?
> 
> Any idea on the quantity?
> 
> ...



Saw it years ago on TV - Ozzi Bush survival tips n tricks or some thing like that , so off course I had to try it . It works , but the water tastes terrible ..
Another trick is a large clear plastic bag , cover a small scrub tree/bush , tie it off , and make sure you capture the run off .. Again the water tastes horrid , but death VS bad tasting water ? Or a branch of a tree .. 

The hole cant be too deep , as it will not heat up , It can be wide [ dep on the size of your plastic ] but not overly deep , If I remember correctly about 2 feet deep , if you go too deep the ground will be too cool for it to work , as its solar powered . And the edges need to be sealed , pressure cooker .

If its warm enough , maybe one hour for a glass of watter , depending on how much moisture is in the plant/leaves ..
A bush or a tree branch may be better as it will continue to produce water as long as there is water in the plant , Aust has been in drought a long time , so it may be more difficult to get water out of dried up plants that are barely surviving ..


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## AusKipper (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



KiwiMark said:


> So after reading many great suggestions about being more prepared I have ordered a H501 ahead of my next camping weekend. I have also been thinking about firestarting and in particular the jet lighter torches (plenty to choose from at dealextreme.com). Does anyone have any experience with using these to start a fire in the bush? I was thinking that the hotter jet flame would not only be more wind-resistant but may be more able to get wet wood to burn.
> 
> So - anyone? Does the hot 1300°C blue flame offer any advantages or disadvantages for fire starting in the bush, compared to a standard yellow flame?
> 
> I think I should add some kind of lighter to my EDC - you never know when you need one.



I have replace my Bic now with a Regal lighter, that puts out blue flames times 3 (ie triple jet)   damn it looks cool!!

+'s would be starts fire quicker/easier.

-'s would be cant see gas level in it, uses gas MUCH faster (not an issue cost wise, because i can re-fill it for next to nothing, but it is an issue if your stuck and run out of gas!!)

This is not a high quality lighter by any means, but it only cost me $10.

Apparently all butane lights have trouble at altitudes, but I am never really at altitude, so not an issue for me.

I would really like one of the high quality blue jet lighters like the Brunton or the Silva ones.. but they are a bit pricy for my current budget, i spent all my money on torches


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## AusKipper (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



old4570 said:


> Saw it years ago on TV - Ozzi Bush survival tips n tricks or some thing like ......... ...... ........ surviving ..



Thanks for the update.

I'll have to give it a shot this summer


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## AusKipper (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



[email protected] said:


> Thanks to you CPF survivalists I'm now hooked on Les Stroud's Survivorman series



Yeah, i think i am going to have to watch all of those too


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## JBorneu (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Fenix TK20 and Zebralight H50. Two of my favorite lights. They're the ones I take everywhere when I might need some serious lighting. (along with my usual EDC: My trusty NDI and my LF2X and a couple fauxtons hanging on bags)

About water purification: Usually, if you are near any kind of civilisation (roads etc.) you can find old soda cans. Find one which is pretty fresh, cut the top off and you can boil water. The fact that you can find them is sad, but you can put 'em to good use. Now don't come and tell me "if I were near civilisation I wouldn't need to boil water" because you can find trash on pretty remote locations and if you die of thirst it doesn't matter if you're one mile or ten miles from help.

About solar stills: They are in most situations a waste of energy and fluids. If it's hot enough to make them work there usually is not enough water in the ground and you'll waste more water by digging them than you get from them. Think about it: in a climate where a solar still produces a considerable ammount of water it has to be pretty darn hot so you need a LOT of water to survive and you'll be wasting a LOT of water by digging a couple holes. Even at sea in tropical waters a couple floating solar stills produce barely enough water to keep one person functioning. Please, people, do NOT consider solar stills as a water procurement method unless you have tried it yourself several times and you have found a reliable way to make them produce a gallon of water a day (as absolute minimum). In just about any situation you'll be much better off doing something else with that energy (except when at sea - you just blow it up, tie it down and let it float).


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## gsxrac (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

I ended up buying a Zebralight H60 that should be in today or tomorrow. And I got the new Xtar Howitzer. These will be my American "bush" survival lights =) Last "survival" trip I took I used my E2DL, Ra Clicky, and Malkoff MD2 with M30 (that was my most used light)


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## KiwiMark (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



Egsise said:


> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/197464
> 
> Those blue flame torches really rock, I got mine(a PB-207 pocket torch) when i went to army and trust me, theres no going back to bic lighters.
> But remember, like flashlights, you get what you pay for.



The PB-207 looks pretty nice - a bit more than I want to spend though.

I have already ordered over a dozen different lighters from dealextreme - I am playing with the ones that have arrived so far and I will sell at a profit all those that I don't want to keep (not hard to flog something off on the local online auction site when it only costs $4 you generally sell it for at least twice that).

So far the ones that I like are:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6824 - too big for EDC, but works really well around home.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.17144 - I have put this in my pocket, it works well and is a convenient size.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19435 - nice twin blue flame lighter that works well, I might EDC this as well.

I'll see how I go carrying 2 lighters that appear to work well (a backup couldn't hurt, especially with cheapies). When camping I'll take a mini Bic as a 3rd lighter so I have at least one work when I need it.

If these cheap lighters don't last well and are a pain then I will look at getting a PB-207 and see how that goes. But it is good to hear from others about how these work before I find myself in a situation where I need to rely on the lighters I am carrying..


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## Egsise (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

You know how it goes, first you buy 10$ flashlights, then you need something better and end up....how many quality flashlights was in your sigline... 

My lighters backup is http://www.bestglide.com/Lifeboat_Matches_Info.html


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## TorchBoy (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



KiwiMark said:


> I have ordered a H501 ahead of my next camping weekend. I have also been thinking about firestarting and in particular the jet lighter torches (plenty to choose from at dealextreme.com). Does anyone have any experience with using these to start a fire in the bush?


Was that the cool white or warm white version?

I've used their triple jet lighter to light dry totara leaves after lesser attempts (matches and a Bic lighter) failed. It was very effective and I recommend it. Any lighter and a can of deodorant is even more effective.



Mr Floppy said:


> I've managed to light a cigarette out the window of a car driving 70km/h


_Some_one was desperate.


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## AusKipper (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



TorchBoy said:


> _Some_one was desperate.



I think we may find someone was testing


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## KiwiMark (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



TorchBoy said:


> Was that the cool white or warm white version?



http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=434
They don't list a warm version and there is a big price difference if I buy elsewhere - as 4sevens offer free worldwide shipping.



Egsise said:


> You know how it goes, first you buy 10$ flashlights, then you need something better and end up....how many quality flashlights was in your sigline...
> 
> My lighters backup is http://www.bestglide.com/Lifeboat_Matches_Info.html



It won't surprise me if I end up owning 2 or 3 (or 4 or 5) good quality lighters in a year or two. I'll see how the cheapies go for now, I'll play with them a bit and see how long before they fail.

Those matches look like a damn good idea for an emergency kit, I would assume that they would still be good 5 years after buying them.


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## Egsise (Aug 28, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

My matches are little over 5 years old and I had to use one just few weeks ago(I forgat my lighter...), worked like a new.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 28, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

I like the peanut lighters - uses Zippo type fuel or gas or alcohol or just about any flammable liquid, is tiny and uses a flint but unlike Zippo's it doesn't dry up in a week. With it's o-ring seal they will last easily a year or more and are keychain friendly. I got several from CPF member oregon when he introduced them here a while back. Since then I got a stainless steel one from someplace - I think it was countycomm.com - same place that's selling the currently popular AAA Maratac light. And DX has the chrome ones for somewhere around $2 I think.


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## KiwiMark (Aug 31, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



AusKipper said:


> The Zebralight H501



Mine arrived today - I heard it was small, but was still surprised at how small and light it is. :wow:

Medium seems useful and Zebralight rate it at 19 hours runtime on medium. H501 + 2 Eneloops = ~38 hours of light on medium - that seems pretty good to me. :twothumbs

I like the pocket clip - useful for camping when other people are around, you don't need to look dorky wearing a headband. :thumbsup:

The H501 = small & light, runs on the worlds most common batteries, very useful for night time bush survival. Talk about a worthwhile purchase!


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## AusKipper (Aug 31, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



KiwiMark said:


> Mine arrived today - I heard it was small, but was still surprised at how small and light it is. :wow:
> 
> Medium seems useful and Zebralight rate it at 19 hours runtime on medium. H501 + 2 Eneloops = ~38 hours of light on medium - that seems pretty good to me. :twothumbs
> 
> ...




Glad you like it 

I'm not sure how reliable those runtimes are, I swear its not that long for me, i am always surprised when my light goes off seemingly just after I charged it!!

That said, I havnt actually measured the runtime...

Theres a good chance someone on here does have a runtime graph for it though, might be worth a look


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## hyperloop (Aug 31, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



AusKipper said:


> Glad you like it
> 
> I'm not sure how reliable those runtimes are, I swear its not that long for me, i am always surprised when my light goes off seemingly just after I charged it!!
> 
> ...



I was surprised when my H501 wouldnt fire up, took out the NiMH cell and checked it, it was down to 1.04 volts or something like that, slipped in a partially discharged 14500 and it fired right up.

Intend to do a runtime test on high and medium using a fresh 14500 and a fresh eneloop as well and will report back.

by the way, that preparedness guide you sent is a real eye opener, thanks!!


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## Woods Walker (Aug 31, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

When I first got the H50 I used a Energizer 2500 and the light didn't work right. It just came on in low. Tried a Duraloop and everything was just great. If someone keeps off the high the runtimes are very near what ZL says given the 2000 mAh. My H501s are the same. These are great lights around camp but the pure 120-80 flood based on model is not all that good for finding fire wood if I don't get enough before nightfall. I pack a 1XAA light now as it uses the same battery as the ZL and mopre UL than 2xAA. Guess if I had the H30 it would be a 1xCR123. The same rule also works for the Rebel EOS 3XAAA. I pack a little Leatherman S2 (now in for repair as the switch got unstable) so it has been replaced with the iTP EOS. You don't need a bunch of light for most use in the dark woods. 50 lumens goes a looooooooong way. On the topic of the backup flashlight I find most flashlights running at say a 20ish lumens mode can out throw a ZL easy. The pro of using the same cells is if one light goes down I can rob batteries from the other.

Going out at night beyond night hikes on known trails, winter pulk sled trips running late or short range stuff like a water run etc in not the best thing. So easy to get turned around even when using a 200 lumen light. The woods can look all the same in the dark. When hiking on known trails I pack a flashlight with more power than when going camping. I guess if I somehow got turned around for more than a night I would NEVER walk around after dark no matter what the flashlight. I have been turned around for a night in the past but this doesn't count as bush survival as it was no big deal however there were cliffs and other dangers in the area and so walking around past dusk would have exposed me to risks for little need. But I got no problem walking out from a long dayhike if not turned around. This happens all the time.


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## AusKipper (Aug 31, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



hyperloop said:


> by the way, that preparedness guide you sent is a real eye opener, thanks!!



Yeah, the LDS Preparedness manual (5.0) is certainly one of the more usefull reads.

I have read it cover to cover only once, but its very well laid out, so you can quickly refer to something, ie shelf life of food, quite easily


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## AusKipper (Aug 31, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



Woods Walker said:


> On the topic of the backup flashlight I find most flashlights running at say a 20ish lumens mode can out throw a ZL easy.



I would definitely agree with that, but you know, you cant have a good flood light AND a thrower AND long runtime all in the 1 compact torch.

1 torch does one job, one torch does another 

Even my little LD01 out thows the Zebra no problem.

I also agree with not walking at night if you can help it, but if it was in any sort of combat environment then you can only walk at night. Generally in the bush though, if your just "walking" (ie not looking specifically for firewood or anything) you can do just fine with no torch.

Theres no cliff edges or anything in my AO, but theres dirty big mineshafts!! but even without a torch, so long as there is a bit of a moon, you can still see them.


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## Woods Walker (Aug 31, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



AusKipper said:


> I would definitely agree with that, but you know, you cant have a good flood light AND a thrower AND long runtime all in the 1 compact torch.
> 
> 1 torch does one job, one torch does another
> 
> ...


 

You have never walked though a hemlock grove. Heck it can be kinda dark in mid day. Dusk comes 1 hour early and night is black as squid ink. It can be just so dark. Heck even 10 lumens seem like a pocket rocket at times. It also depends on the terrain and environment. Putting on the snow shoes for a little nice hike from camp into this powder snow base with negative 20 F and wind blowing is trouble.








Then there is weather. I would never walk into a storm. No I am setting up camp and staying put. When alone I only have myself to depend on. Safety is so important. Something that is not very popular on some action packed survival shows these days. 






Last year I used my H50 and L2D-Q5 with lithium batteries. Used the H50 to setup camp when rolling in with the pulk sled late. This year may go with the H501w and TK20. I like the TK20 for the warm tint. Seemed to work better in the fog and mist. I hope the same holds true for snow.:twothumbs


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## AusKipper (Sep 1, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

I have never walked in snow at all!!

40 degree (C) heat is what is the "extreme" around here. Coldest it ever gets is -4 or 5, and it never really snows at ground level (whatever level I am at)

We do have the Alpine national park that has snow riiight up the top of it in the middle of winter, but thats about it.


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## [email protected] (Sep 2, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

I have to admit I'm a little envious of you Woods Walker being able to go camping/adventuring in the snow (sounds insane I know), we did however have freak weather last year & for the first time in my life I drove in snow on regular roads 4WD made it safe though, during the snow storm I couldn't tell exactly where the road was as the lights reflected off the awesome whiteness of it all 

After traveling 30 kilometers & sitting overnight I still had heaps of snow on the 4WD :devil:


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## Woods Walker (Sep 2, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



[email protected] said:


> I have to admit I'm a little envious of you Woods Walker being able to go camping/adventuring in the snow (sounds insane I know), we did however have freak weather last year & for the first time in my life I drove in snow on regular roads 4WD made it safe though, during the snow storm I couldn't tell exactly where the road was as the lights reflected off the awesome whiteness of it all
> 
> After traveling 30 kilometers & sitting overnight I still had heaps of snow on the 4WD :devil:


 
Take a look at this road. 






When it comes down to it is all about familiarity with the environment. Heck you guys got those crazy snakes and funnel web whatever spiders. Birds that can and will gut someone. Then there is those nastily crocs. Go to fill up the canteens and maybe some 16 footer will make a surprise entrance. Also I don’t know the first thing for survival in a dry blistering hot environment. Sure I wouldn’t walk around in the mid day sun but I got nothing for those skills. The only thing I consider dangerous during winter in a sometimes unmanageable way would be an ice storm. In the backcountry every environment has its risks. In many ways there are no cake walks and no one is tougher than the next guy. Around here we have these ticks that infect people with Lyme disease. It is named for a town in my home state. All my family and friends have gotten hit. Some have become very sick. On topic a Zebra light headlamp is great for finding those blood suckers. Pulled a few off me last month with the help of my H501 used for a body tick check before turning in and the faster they are removed the better someone’s chances of not getting sick.


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## AusKipper (Sep 2, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



Woods Walker said:


> Heck you guys got those crazy snakes and funnel web whatever spiders. Birds that can and will gut someone. Then there is those nastily crocs. Go to fill up the canteens and maybe some 16 footer will make a surprise entrance. Also I don’t know the first thing for survival in a dry blistering hot environment.



Fortunately not all of those things are in the same place!!

In my AO we do have Eastern Brown snakes, which are the most aggressive snakes you have ever seen, and cause the largest amount of casualties of any snake around here. We also have Tiger snakes in my AO, but they dont really attack unless you stand on them by accident or something.

I have seen a couple of tiger snakes, and never had one come at me, every single brown snake I have seen has chased me though. If there is any 1 thing I am scared of in the Aussie bush (in my AO) it accursed brown snakes.

Emu's (the birds that gut people) also dont seem to be particularly aggressive to me.., and are very rare to see in the wild in my AO.

I'm also too far south to have to worry about crocks and funnel webs (thanks god!)

All bushes have their hazards I guess. I cant really think of any bushes where your perfectly safe. Perhaps NZ ? (safe is not including deaths from exposure, dehydration or starvation, i'm only talking about animals/insects here..)


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## KiwiMark (Sep 3, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

I am heading off tomorrow to do 2 nights camping in one of the colder parts of NZ - I might just get to touch snow for the first time of my life, maybe.

I am trying to limit myself to just 8 lights as that would be more than enough, but there is a good chance that I will end up taking a dozen (most on this site know how it is). Luckily lights don't take up a lot of room, cause I need to take my tent, sleeping bag, bedroll and other stuff and I am travelling by scooter.

I'll take my gas burner & kettle to keep myself in hot drinks and to try out the little burner. I'll be taking the H501 to try that out in a camping situation so I'll see how that goes.

I won't have to worry about extreme survival issues though, I'll have plenty of food & water available. I'll be dressed as warmly as I can and there will be some large fires set up for us (a bonfire for each night). Woohoo - winter time camping, nirvana for the flashaholic!


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## TorchBoy (Sep 3, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



KiwiMark said:


> Woohoo - winter time camping, nirvana for the flashaholic!


Hey, it's spring already. Take extra notes on the H501.


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## KiwiMark (Sep 3, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



TorchBoy said:


> Hey, it's spring already. Take extra notes on the H501.



Sure, it's spring here in Auckland - but I'm heading to Waiouru and they still have plenty of winter left to go down there. It snowed on the desert road today, it's going to be colder than Auckland in mid-winter.


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## TacticalIndustries (Sep 7, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



SureAddicted said:


> What Ray Mears uses and recommends is a SureFire E1L, he also sells it on his website. In Ray Mears goes walkabout, Rockart, he uses his E1L in the caves.


 
Relax with Ray Mears..


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## KiwiMark (Sep 7, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



TorchBoy said:


> Take extra notes on the H501.



The bike rally went well, except that I could see pretty well without a torch at all - a big bright full moon was doing a reasonable job of providing a decent amount of light. But when walking past other tents you needed a bit more light to ensure you wouldn't trip over anyone's guy ropes. I had my jacket unzipped a little and clipped the H501 to one side of the open zip - it worked well and I could see a short range in front of me pretty well. With ambient light I needed medium or high from the H501, without any other light I am sure that low would have been enough to do most jobs with. Only requiring 1 x AA cell makes it easy to power the light and a 4 pack of AA batteries gives 4 battery changes - that is enough to run the light for a LONG time for minimal weight/size.

I took about a dozen torches and only used 2 - the H501 was a great light source for seeing anything nearby and I could use both hands to eat or whatever while having sufficient light. I complimented the H501 with something a bit stronger and more throw. I didn't really need to worry about running out of batteries on my stronger light because I only used it as necessary and only needed the use of it for 2 nights - so I used my ROP High Maglite 2D with the fivemega V2 2" deep dish reflector. I am pretty sure that Maglite would have been the brightest torch there (there were around 2000 people at the rally I think) and it provided a good WOW! factor.

Inside my little tent there is a plastic ring in the top for hanging a lantern or whatever. If I put the H501 on that ring it hung there with the emitter pointing straight down - easily enough to illuminate the tent even on low or medium.

For lighting my gas cooker (small single burner screwed onto a small butane canister) I took more than one lighter. I don't know if it was the altitude (only around 750M above sea level, not really high altitude) but the bic didn't want to work. For a reasonable but cheap butane lighter my favourite out of what I have tried so far is this one: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19435 and I am going to get a few more of the same brand to try out. I was able to melt a hole in an Aluminium can with that lighter, so the heat output was good, it also lights almost every time (at least 9/10 even at that altitude). The small gas cooker + small kettle worked well to make hot drinks as I wanted them - the cold weather helped to keep my milk cold.

Overall I recommend going camping for testing out your torches/tent/sleeping bag/stove/etc. It is all well and good getting survival equipment to be prepared for an emergency situation, but you need to test how well that equipment works in actual use.


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## TorchBoy (Sep 7, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*

Thanks for that review. I wonder if the cold was affecting your Bic lighter.


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## AusKipper (Sep 7, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



TorchBoy said:


> Thanks for that review. I wonder if the cold was affecting your Bic lighter.



+1, great review.

Someday when I have time i want to go to kiwi land and explore those mountains.. everytime I watch "Lord of the Rings" I want to jump on a plane and go over there!!

Also NZ is just about the last "free" (by my definition) country left in the world, so I want to buy a small block of land over there yadda yadda yadda, but that will have to wait for a few more years I think.


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## KiwiMark (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: The best torch (I own) for nightime bush survival is...*



matrixshaman said:


> I like the peanut lighters - uses Zippo type fuel or gas or alcohol or just about any flammable liquid, is tiny and uses a flint but unlike Zippo's it doesn't dry up in a week. With it's o-ring seal they will last easily a year or more and are keychain friendly. I got several from CPF member oregon when he introduced them here a while back. Since then I got a stainless steel one from someplace - I think it was countycomm.com - same place that's selling the currently popular AAA Maratac light. And DX has the chrome ones for somewhere around $2 I think.



Today my cheapo DX peanut lighters arrived.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3734
I bought 5 using the 'bulkrate' option which lowered the cost to $1.65ea (I ordered a bunch of other stuff on the same order).
I think I will EDC one of these little peanut lighters - they would be much smaller and easier to carry than most other firestarting options and a lot easier to carry on me every day than a couple of cotton balls smeared with vaseline. Despite these lighters being cheap to buy I can't see them being unreliable (they are too simple to have much that can go wrong) - the Zippo lighter fluid I used is good stuff, flint is reliable and the O-ring sealed container should do a good job of stopping the fluid evaporating - as well as keeping the lighter dry until you need to use it. 
I would highly recommend these as a great backup fire starting tool, the are small & water proof and would store well for up to a year at least. Buy 5 and you can EDC 1 + 2 in your BOB and 2 in your smaller BOB - at the price these are why not?

I am now EDCing 3 torches and 3 lighters as well as a Leatherman Wave & a Victorinox Cybertool. I think that gives me a nice range of tools to cover most everyday situations and that stuff would be useful in an emergency camping situation. But camping without my tent, sleeping bag, bedroll, camp stove, kettle, cup, etc would be much less comfortable than with that stuff.

I have sold my car, so when I go out I am on a scooter wearing a good leather jacket - this gives me some good pockets and a certain amount of warmth & water resistance. I also have a titanium cup & titanium utensils (knife, fork, spoon, spork) in the locked front storage compartment of the scooter. I also have a very small first aid kit under the seat and over 2 litres of spare petrol (which could be used to get a fire going) in 2 camping fuel containers.

I don't really see any easy way of covering every possible emergency situation with what you have available 24/7, so I don't think I will bother trying. But I certainly have a few more options available than most people with the useful stuff I EDC. Food, water & shelter may be tricky - depending on where I am and what I can find around me, this is potentially a serious issue because those 3 things are pretty important.
If a civil emergency happened while I was at home then things wouldn't be so bad. I would almost always have enough petrol available to travel 100+kms and I could quickly load up my camping gear. I have a lot of torches, lighters, batteries, food, water, etc. I would do fine at home for a few days on canned food & bottles of water I keep filled up. I certainly have enough petrol to travel to a source of fresh water. I am not too sure how well I would do foraging for food though.

To keep some of this related to torches:
With a few of my torches and the use of low modes I think I could last for several months before I run out of light. Just for the Zebralight alone I could find at least a dozen fully charged Eneloops right now + at least 4 alkaline cells. Only using the light as needed and using the minimum output as much as possible - I could use that light for months! Using my ROP Low Mag 2D I can have a very strong incan light with plenty of throw for over 2 hours run time, I also have at least 3 fully charged changes of battery - total 8 hours! 8 hours from a bright thrower that I would only use as I needed = at least a couple of weeks use! I think if civilisation & power is not restored by the time my torches are out of power then I would have more problems to worry about than lack of light!

PS
For a non-smoker I now own a huge number of lighters!

Last thoughts:
Carry a can of drink in the car & BOB - if you drink the contents then you could cut the top off the can and use it to boil water in an emergency. An aluminium can could prove to be quite useful.


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