# BiPin Mag: The First Mag-MagCharger Hybrid



## Ginseng (Jan 8, 2005)

*This post was returned to the thread on 2/8/06.*

*Bottom Line:*
This mod allows one to use *any* high performance, high output G4 bi-pin bulb in a regular Maglite flashlight. With this mod, the entire array of superbulbs from Welch-Allyn can be used in any Mag C or D body. 

*The Story:*
Typically, the easiest route to incandescent or hot wire modding has been to run readily available bulbs such as the Mag KryptonStars and RadioShack KPR112 at overdrive. The PR cup base is an industry standard and one can easily find a massive variety of bulbs in voltages from 2.4V up to 18V. This provides for direct drop-in and instant gratification. However, while this base is ubiquitous, there are very few high performance bulbs in this format. 

Over the last two years, there has been steadily increasing interest in the use of superbulbs. Most notably, the bulbs from Carley Lamps and Welch Allyn Lamps have been the ones of choice. In terms of performance, the Welch Allyn line provides arguably a greater range but definitively the higher performing options. Carley typically keeps current demands below 2A while Welch Allyn provide bulbs of up to 3.85A. However, while Carley can provide their bulbs potted in PR bases in addition the bare pin state, Welch Allyn do not pot their bare pin bulbs. The typical route to obtaining the compelling WA bulbs has been to purchase them and then send them to Carley for potting. This is a process, that due to minimum order requirements, has often required the vehicle of the Group Buy to make happen. Not only is this a complicated process, but it can take a great amount of time and effort to track the group buy. The most recent buys have easily run into the thousands of dollars parts and have stretched out months in duration from order to fulfillment. 

During this time, modders have tried to make their own bi-pin to PR base adapters. I. myself, have built these devices out of pin sockets, scavenged PR bases and JB-Weld. These results have been acceptable but their manufacture is time intensive, difficult and just a regular pain in the butt. 

The MagCharger is a unique platform in that unlike the vast majority of lights out there, it accepts bulbs in the G4 bi-pin format. However, the MC is expensive coming in at around $90-110 dollars for a complete setup versus as low as $16 for the "regular" Mags. For some time, I had thought about somehow converting parts of the MC innards into a drop-in for regular Mags. Sharing some of my thoughts with Bill Waites, he arranged to have a switch core sent to me. Jim Sexton also took a look at the core to assess the possibility of making ceramic components to replace the pin slug. In the end, it took Hook'd on Photons to finally kick me into gear and propose extracting the only essential part of the MagCharger and implanting it into a Mag. And that brings us to the current state of affairs.

*Here is what is known:*
1. The MagCharger pin slug itself will fit into the bulb receiver in a regular Mag. However, without a PR flange to hold it in place, it would fall right out the front of the pedestal. The pin slug is the plastic cylinder that encases the two pin sockets and the contacts to the switch core.

2. The entire MC slug and surrounding heavy metal collar can be swapped out for the analogous units in the regular Mag. The result is a hybrid Maglite that can now accept bi-pin bulbs. 

3. The pins of the Welch Allyn bulbs are slightly on the long side. This results in the pins bottoming out inside the pin receivers before the bulb can seat as far down as it ultimately can. This results in the placement of the filament that is just on the edge of being able to focus optimally. This situation can be _easily remedied_ though. You simply need to snip off 2mm from the ends of the pins. This allows the bulb to seat fully and enables the entire range of focusing. If you can focus without trimming, do so. You'll find out why below.

4. While I have test fit the slug and metal sleeve successfully in four different Mags (D and C), there may be some revisions that may have some interference issues. Mag has been known to slipstream minor changes into their design but since compatibility and consistency seem to be high, these cases are probably rare. But attempt to use this mod at your own risk.

*Here are some pictures:*

*Comparison of the MagCharger and MagD switch bodies.* You'll see that in this photo, the filament is noticeably higher for the bulb in the MC switch than in the MagD. This is remedied by snipping the pins as I described above. You can also see that there is almost nothing in common between the two switch bodies. They are completely and unmodifiably non-interchangeable. The cam follower bolts, inner spring and bulb receptacle/slug are interchangeable however and this is all we care about.






*Pin receiver slug installed in the Mag switch section.* You can see that this is a D-body from the threading on the front of the tube. But wait, it now takes bi-pins instead of PR bases. Yep, this is the world's first bi-pin MagD made with all native MagLite parts. I call this mod the Mag_XX_BP, where _XX_ is a bulb code. So, using the WA01185 in this setup, the whole light would be called the Mag85BP.





*Here is the light fully built up with bulb and battery.* The bulb is the WA01274 and the battery pack consists of 6 x 4Ah 1/2D nimh cells in a 3.75D body. The body tube extender at the back is courtesy of supermodder Fivemega. This is the Mag74Bp and it will make over 500 lumens for almost 90 minutes. 





*Here is a pair of photos showing the effect of trimming the bulb pins.* The bulb in this example is the stock MC bulb but that's ok because I'm just about 100% certain that they are made by WA. In any case, I also trimmed a WA01274 and the effect is the same. You can see that the bulb drops down about 1.5mm, just enough to provide the full range of focus. The downside, though, is that the hot glass of the bulb is now right on the slug. The potential for thermal damage is heightened. This risk must be understood by all. This means that thermal damage to the slug could happen *more rapidly* than if the same bulb were used in the MagCharger. My advice is if you can get acceptable focus without trimming the pins, don't trim.





Well, that is all for now. This is not a guide as to how to do the mod yourself. It's easy and instructions and expertise abound for how to take out and take apart the Mag switch section. I will probably come back and post directions pertaining to the most relevant steps...but it's really that easy. Oh, one more thing. I tested this with Otokoyama's Perfect Mag Reflector (PMR) and it works, well, perfectly.

Enjoy!

Wilkey


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## cy (Jan 8, 2005)

very nice!!

When do we get one?


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## Ginseng (Jan 9, 2005)

Forgot to mention or make clear. 

1. This is an easy mod. The only tool you need is a 5/64" hex wrench.

2. It's cheap. The MC switch is about $10.50 plus shipping.

3. It's fully reversible.

4. With EL's 3-D adapters and Fivemega's extension rings and Mags 2C-6D, the battery body setups are plentiful.

5. The ability to use every battery chemistry and format from lithium, lithium ion, nicad and nimh means plentiful power options.

6. You can run so many different types and outputs of bulbs your mind will boggle. The present king of the hill is the WA01185. The Mag85/Mag85BP is the cheapest and easiest honest 800 lumen light you can find. If you need 'em, get 'em here: S4MadMan's Welch Allyn Group Buy .

Any questions?

Wilkey

_EDIT: The correct hex key size is 5/64" or 2mm._


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## bjn70 (Jan 9, 2005)

I'm a pure observer but I had a random comment- has this assembly been proven to carry the current and withstand the head of the 85 bulb?

While reading the previous monster post about bi-pin mods I had the thought that if heat is an issue maybe something like an Osink could be manufactured and the bipin socket could be attached to the Osink.


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## paulr (Jan 9, 2005)

Wow, it's cool that someone did this. Although, the economics aren't /that/ overwhelming: you need the Mag body ($20) plus an aluminum reflector ($25) plus the Magcharger switch ($11) plus 3-to-D's (let's say 3 of them for a 3D mag, $15) plus NiMH cells ($10?) plus some kind of charging setup ($20?). Plus you have to get all these parts, which is not always easy (reflector, temporary 3-to-D outage) and probably involves separate shipping charges for the separate items. And then you have to do some work putting it all together. The end result is a Mag85, king of the Mag mods. 

On the other hand, you could just buy a brand new Magcharger for around $89 at your local hardware store, complete with Nicad stick and in-flashlight charging system, and drop in a 1160 bulb. Not quite as bright as the 1185, but about the same expenditure, and much more conveience both in terms of assembly and operation (just drop the light into the charger to charge it up).

For those who have tried both, how does a Mag85 compare to an MC60 in pure impressiveness in operation? I've been wondering about this.


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## bwaites (Jan 9, 2005)

MC60 is awesome, (I have 2, don't ask why!) but no contest with the '85! Somewhere more than 300 plus lumens extra out the front. Its actually closer to 400 if I remember right.

The MagCharger cradle can be modded to actually charge the '85 pack if you can do a little deoldering/soldering.

As far as impressiveness? No contest! The '85 is as much a step up from the MC60 as the MC60 is from the stock MagCharger.

Bill


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## paulr (Jan 9, 2005)

Yes I've heard of modding the MC cradle to charge an MC85. I'm thinking more in terms of MC60/MC85 vs. Mag85BP to use the new terminology. The MC can be simply dropped into the charging cradle for charging. The Mag85BP needs to be opened, and have its cells removed and charged, maybe on two or three chargers at once if you only have 4-cell chargers and don't want to be swapping cells in and out of chargers.

Thanks for the advise about 1160 vs 1185. The Mag mods tempt me but I think I'll wait to see if JS offers some more TL85's for sale, a much smaller light than the MC or Mag3D.


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## SJACKAL (Jan 9, 2005)

Hi Wilkey,

Wow! You done it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif

Do you mean if the glass bulb touches the plastic slug/receptacle, it might melt over some time? Like what some folks experience while using WA1160 in their Magchargers?


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## bwaites (Jan 9, 2005)

Sjackal,

yes, but faster because the 85 is hotter.

Bill


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## SJACKAL (Jan 9, 2005)

I see, thanx. But the 'tail'of the bulb seems to touch the plastic receptacle even when the pins are not trimmed...

Assuming we are using modded RF1940 from the June Groupbuy, how do we focus?

There should be no problem when using a cammed reflector, such as those by Fivemega, right?

This is the day hotwire mods melts the plastic luxeons!


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## StEaLtH_ (Jan 9, 2005)

It was only a matter of time, and our incan master has done it again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Very nice Wilkey /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Jan 9, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*paulr said:*
Wow, it's cool that someone did this. Although, the economics aren't /that/ overwhelming: you need the Mag body ($20) plus an aluminum reflector ($25) plus the Magcharger switch ($11) plus 3-to-D's (let's say 3 of them for a 3D mag, $15) plus NiMH cells ($10?) plus some kind of charging setup ($20?). Plus you have to get all these parts, which is not always easy (reflector, temporary 3-to-D outage) and probably involves separate shipping charges for the separate items. And then you have to do some work putting it all together. The end result is a Mag85, king of the Mag mods. 

On the other hand, you could just buy a brand new Magcharger for around $89 at your local hardware store, complete with Nicad stick and in-flashlight charging system, and drop in a 1160 bulb. Not quite as bright as the 1185, but about the same expenditure, and much more conveience both in terms of assembly and operation (just drop the light into the charger to charge it up).


[/ QUOTE ]

Well... since when has cost been a major factor for die-hard flashaholics anyway? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Your point about cost is well taken. However, in the example you provided above, a Mag85BP will cost about $101. Let's just round off to $120, to give a little wiggle room on the price of 9 NiMH batteries and the charger, and to account for shipping costs.

A stock Magcharger's "street" price is about $89. However, that's generally the Web price; I've seen Magchargers in the local retail stores for about $95-100. Let's just assume that Walmart has a sale on Magchargers, and one can be bought for $89. A Mag60 will cost about $7-9 more, depending upon how much you pay for a WA01160 lamp (~$4-6) and shipping. To compare apples to oranges, you need to figure out how much a Magcharger-85 will cost. For the sake of argument, let's say a WA01185 lamp and shipping is about the same cost. You still must purchase 3 3-to-D adapters, batteries, and a charger. Assuming the same costs as the MagBP example, that's an extra $45. The total is now $89 + $7 + $45 = $141.

Anyway, the main advantages of the MagBP are *flexibility*, and the potential to upgrade the large number of Maglites already out there. Mags have a huge user base. Chances are, most CPF readers already have a Maglite, even if they're not currently using it. Now you can upgrade your Mag to a superlight without having to wait for a groupbuy for potted Welch-Allyn lamps.

Got a Mag 2-D you want to turn into a photonic cannon? Convert it into a MagBP. Drop in a WA01111 and power it with 6 NiMH AAs in two 3-to-D adapters. Wheee, 880 lumens!

Got a Mag 3-D you'd like to upgrade? Now with the MagBP you can turn it into a Mag85 (with 3 3-to-D adapters) or a Mag60 if you don't need incredible luminosity (heh...), or you're worried about thermal damage to the pin slug (Magcharger stick, or 5 stacked 3/5D NiMH cells).

There are many other potential bulb/battery/host Maglite combinations that can be utilized with this new development.

I'll steal Ginseng's and JimH's mini-chart, which was posted in the WA groupbuy thread:

WA01111: 6V spec (464.95 lumens), 7.2V push (880 lumens)
WA01160: 5V spec (326.72 lumens), 6V push (618 lumens)
WA01183: 4.7V spec (410.92 lumens), 4.8V push (442 lumens) (can't take much overdrive)
WA01185: 9.6V spec (816.81 lumens), 10.8V push (1234 lumens)
WA01274: 7.2V spec (552.92 lumens), 8.4V push (946 lumens)
WA01318: 9.6V spec (534.07 lumens), 10.8V push (807 lumens) 

The formula is: Overdriven lumen output = [(Voltage / Spec Voltage) ^ 3.5] * Spec lumen output. For example, a WA01160 driven at 6V would yield [(6V / 5V) ^ 3.5] * 326.72 = 618 lumens.

Welch-Allyn technical data and product specifications:
WA01111: http://www.walamp.com/lpd/webstore/detail.tpl?partnumber=01111-U
WA01160: http://www.walamp.com/lpd/webstore/detail.tpl?partnumber=01160-U
WA01183: http://www.walamp.com/lpd/webstore/detail.tpl?partnumber=01183-U
WA01185: http://www.walamp.com/lpd/webstore/detail.tpl?partnumber=01185-U
WA01274: http://www.walamp.com/lpd/webstore/detail.tpl?partnumber=01274-U
WA01318: http://www.walamp.com/lpd/webstore/detail.tpl?partnumber=01318-U

S4MadMan's organizing a Welch-Allyn bipin lamp groupbuy right now. Here's the link:

WA Group Buy


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## Ginseng (Jan 9, 2005)

bjn70,

The damage that can be done by superbulbs such as the WA01185 have been well documented. In the MagCharger, the slug takes the brunt thermal damage. IMO, the rest of the MC switch assembly is more than robust enough to handle 3A/30W loads. In the Mag setup, the damage reports have been somewhat more elusive but tend towards self-soldering of the solder blob at the PR base to the contact in the Mag pedestal. I have also reported plastic stink but have not observed any physical damage to the pedestal even after repeated full-pack discharges.

In both cases, the heat exposure is self-limiting to a degree by virtue of the fact that a) the typical battery pack provides only about 25-30 minutes of runtime and b) the light's typical role is of demonstration device and not a hard-use work light. 

paulr raises some valid points and the intended user of this mod should understand the situation before jumping in. Let's take a look at the economics first. The cheapest I've ever seen a MC go for is about $90 and they are never even close to this price in any brick-and-mortar that I've seen. But let's assume a price of *$90* for this discussion. In essence, the MC is nothing more than a Mag 5D in a 3D body that recharges and uses bi-pin bulbs. The charging system is limited to 4-6 cell setups so it cannot charge the 9-cell pack of the MC85 without modification. Bwaites and I both produce MC85 turnkeys and the cost to make a MC85 is $45 in parts alone. This includes $11 (+shipping) for a 15V700mA AC/DC plug adapter, $0.25 for a replacement resistor, $15 for 9 nimh cells (+tax and/or shipping) and $15 for 3 3-D adapters. If you consider that the light is now incapable of charging the stock 5-cell pack, you'll have to replace both the cradle and wall plug (since the connector gets cut off to be used with the MC85 wall wart). This will add another $32 (+shipping and/or tax) to the cost. If you do this mod yourself and don't pay labor, the total cost to create the MC85 capability and still retain the MC stock capability is about $65. This makes the total cost *$170*.

If you start with a Mag3D, let's say you pay $18 for the light, $15 for the batteries, $11 for the MC switch, $25 for the aluminum reflector, $15 for 3 3-D adapters, $25 for a charger, $7 for a glass lens plus say $15 for shipping and tax, this brings you to $131. Let's say *$140*, even. What this setup gets you is the Mag-anything and MagBP-anything. That is far more flexibility than the modded MC85. The only shortcoming is no charge-in-place.

In both cases, the lights are cheaper, brighter and longer running than the 500-lumen SF M6. Sure, they aren't SF's but for those who have used one, the performance more than makes up for any "prestige" factor. For those who crave eye-stunning sleeper lights, this is the king as it makes almost *18* times the output of a 3-cell krypton bulb. 

sjackal,
When using a non-cammed reflector, focusing is achieved by simply screwing the head down far enough to get the filament to the focal point. A lot of folks prefer this "set and forget" mode of focusing.

Wilkey


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## Ginseng (Jan 9, 2005)

Hook'd,

You must have been reading my mind.

I just want folks to understand that I love hot wire modding. It's not for everyone but if you like it, there are many options. Jim Sexton's TigerLight mods, my Mag mods and mod recipes, Bill Waites' turnkeys and all the stuff that even a newbie can do on his own. There's fun for everyone at every level. 

Wilkey


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## KevinL (Jan 9, 2005)

Hm..... very informative post. For a moment I was thinking that I could utilize the charge-in-place (CIP) system that I would always have a topped off '85 ready to fire from the get go, but it looks like it would be cost prohibitive. It would be very much cheaper for me to stand by multiple sets of batteries or 9-cell NiMH packs and load them as needed. 

IMHO, while the M6 is awesome for what it does, the Mag85 is unbelievable value for money. Trashed the housing by accident? Drop $20 and replace it, just move the internals over. Popped some Borofloat by dropping it? Flashlightlens will fix you up for $5. 

And you never need to spend a cent on expensive CR123s again - NiMHs break even after TWO full pack discharges, and are therefore free forevermore. $1 is inexpensive, but $1 vs $0 - $0 wins every time.


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## larryk (Jan 9, 2005)

One other thing to consider is you have a choice of colors with the 3D Mag. I myself do not care for black, and I believe that is the only color option with the Magcharger.


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## KevinL (Jan 9, 2005)

That's true...






A little prettier than black. Besides, I like the choice of colors, it enables me to tell at a glance which Mag has which configuration. Black 4D = OA4D Cookbook (Luxeon 3), blue 3D = Mag85, black 3C = 3 x Lux3 mod.. etc.

Colors do matter. Well, at least to me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Phaserburn (Jan 9, 2005)

Does anyone know the relative temps involved (and therefore the risk of melting this creative solution) using various WA bulbs? Is it strictly based on watts? I am wondering if the WA1318 might be a cooler option for those interested in going this route (vs 1185) but wants to minimize heat issues. Just a thought.


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## MSaxatilus (Jan 9, 2005)

Ginseng,

Do you know if this mod will work with cammed relector's like Fivemega's MOP, LOP, HOP refectors?

Or does the cam get in the way?


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## bwaites (Jan 9, 2005)

Msax,

He built his with a PMR which IS a cammed reflector. (Well at least most of them were!)

Bill


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## Icarus (Jan 9, 2005)

Nice work Wilkey! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


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## js (Jan 9, 2005)

Wilkey,

Nice post and great pictures! Thanks so much for bringing this option to light and testing it out for us. BTW, the allen wrench needed is a *5/64th* (or 2 mm) isn't it?

As for heat issues with the Mag85BP, it's really just as bwaites has said in his USL thread: a light this bright with a shortish runtime doesn't lend itself to useage patterns which will really bring out the full destructive heat of which it is highly capable. I've never attempted to use the stock plastic reflector with a superbulb, so I can't comment there, but as for the bi-pin plastic socket, I'd bet that it will hold up to no small amount of normal superbulb useage. And heck, just buy multiple MC switch cores and swap in a new slug and bi-pin socket when needed.


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## Hallis (Jan 9, 2005)

Wilkey, sweet mod /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

Shane


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## Ginseng (Jan 9, 2005)

Phase,

Running any bulb from 20W up (including the WA01318) will give you glass capsule temperatures of over 460F. Go to 30W (WA01185) and you get 500F or better. Keep in mind that halogen bulbs typically need to hit around 480F to activate the cycle. Some bulbs take less to get there, maybe 450F. It's cooler down by the pins but I don't know how much cooler. I did my temperature measurements using a thermocouple attachment on my DMM. Note: The 100W Osram bulbs I use have 900F warnings on the box.

MaxSax, 
If the cammed reflectors were designed to be direct Mag replacements, they'll work just fine. 

Jim,
You're right, I was reading the wrong key imprint off of my folding hex key set. It is the 5/64" key. My opening post has been edited.

Wilkey


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## MSaxatilus (Jan 9, 2005)

MAN!!! This is just awesome!

Thanks alot Ginseng! 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


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## jaids (Jan 9, 2005)

And I thought that I would never buy a light with the intention of using a wire. Where can a magcharger switch core be obtained?


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Jan 9, 2005)

Here's the active groupbuy: MagCharger Bi-Pin Slug Groupbuy

The MagCharger switch assembly can also be ordered here: http://www.cases4less.com/maglite/detail_mag_recharge_specs.html


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## Icebreak (Jan 9, 2005)

Sleepers are wonderful.

Who takes a second look at a Dodge Dart or a MagL!te anyways?

I don't have a '68 Dart383 but I do have a '95 Mag85. I call it _*MANNIX*_.







Notice the only modification is what I think are Keystone Mags.

I've already got a cam. Thanks for finding the solid lifters, Wilkey.


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## Ginseng (Jan 9, 2005)

My pleasure Icey. BTW, the project I sought your help out with so many months ago looks like it's coming back in force. I'll be PM'ing you about it soon.

Wilkey


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## Icebreak (Jan 9, 2005)

Roger that.


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## litho123 (Jan 9, 2005)

With the camless 1940's that have been modified to drop-in the mag heads, we have shimmed the potted bulb into focus...Without the shims, optimal focus is achieved before the head has threaded its way across the rubber o-ring. 

As long as the pedestal is being pulled out for the hybrid parts swap, would modding the bulb pedestal (as Ginseng, Chief Wiggum and LEDmodMan have posted) be the right course of action to take? Which would be the easiest/best?


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## vacuum3d (Jan 10, 2005)

Litho,
IMO, if you'd jam the cam follower bolt with piece of metal, so that the bulb would sit lower, then you can focus the camless 1940 without modification of any sort.

ernest


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## srue (Jan 10, 2005)

Ginseng,
Not to get too off topic, but don't forget that there is a simple, no-cost mod that will allow a stock MC cradle to charge 9 cells. All you have to do is short the blue resistor in the charger, and it will drop the current enough that the wall-wart can handle the power requirements of a higher charging voltage. I'm running this right now on my MC85 and it works perfectly. It doesn't even get warm while charging. The robustness of the charging cradle should not be understated.

That being said, it seems to me the real value of this bi-pin switch assembly option is to grant greater flexibility to those who already have standard C & D maglites. This is no small value.


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## McShawn (Jan 10, 2005)

Awesome idea, adds so much functionality to mag lights.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


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## Ginseng (Jan 10, 2005)

Vac, 
Absolutely right. I made just such a jammer out of a snipped piece of aluminum cookie sheet. Works great!

srue,
Thanks a ton for reminding us of that mod. There are so many viable options and that makes this whole enterprise just tons of fun.

Wilkey


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## paulr (Jan 10, 2005)

I just wonder if we'll all feel silly with our dim little WA01185's, once the USL is available.

I'm also having some doubts (for myself, not others) about going down this Mag85BP path instead of just getting an MC60 and being done with it (or upgrading to MC85 and doing that charger mod). I do already have a Mag3D and lots of NiMH cells and chargers. Are random cells ok (1600 mAH) or do I have to buy high-current ones?


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## Ginseng (Jan 10, 2005)

Paul,

srue reminds me that shorting the blue resistor gets you the necessary output to charge the MC85. I like (de)soldering so I swapped resistors to set the trickle at 90mA. The 1160 draws even more than the 1185 so my guess is 1800mAh or CBP1650's are the ticket. 

Wilkey


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## BVH (Jan 16, 2005)

Srue and Ginseng, if I do the "jam the blue resister" mod, does the LED indicator still work? I know I've asked this before but I just want to be completely sure. I'm using Electrolumens 3AA to D, Vers 2 and cumulatively, my unloaded starting voltage is 11.97 using KAN 1300 high current batteries. With the load and resistance in the adapters, is this a safe voltage to start with for the 1185? Will the load cause a voltage sag down to the 10.8 max push voltage? I would hate to flash my very first 1185 that JimH so graciously loaned me.


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## BVH (Jan 16, 2005)

Just took my charging cradle apart. There is no blue resistor. There's a dark brown with a silver strip and the tan, multi color banded one pictured in the charger mod thread. There's also a darker blue capacitor on the board, pretty sure its not a resistor. At least it looks nothing like the blue in the thread pic. My charging cradle is probably 15 years old or better. The wall wart is 14V, 220 mA


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## bwaites (Jan 16, 2005)

paulr and others,

paulr said, "I just wonder if we'll all feel silly with our dim little WA01185's, once the USL is available."

No, I don't think so.

From my viewpoint, in the large flashlight category of MagMods,(2D, 4C and above) there are easy performance lines. 

One hour or more runtime- Mag1160
Half hour or more of runtime-Mag1185
Less than half-hour runtime-MegaBulb (vs. Superbulbs like the 1185, 1274, 1160 and so on) 12 volt mods including the Aurora(the premier and prime example), the Mule, FPNinjas as yet unreleased light, and the USL. 

There is also one interesting contender that I'm looking forward to: Mag83. A 2D body with 4 Aero NiMH 4000MaH cells running a WA 1183. This should deliver around 400 lumens, but from a 2D body with a significant runtime of more than 1 hour. No 3toD's necessary, (near Surefire M6 output for an hour plus, in a similar, slightly larger body), though the tailcap must be opened up some. 

In the SmallMag category (3C and below):

Mag2C24 (Reflectalite GH24 driven by 3 123's) 45 minutes to 1 hour
Mag2C99 (Carley 1499 driven by 3 123's) (1/2 hour runtime?)
Mag2C60 (WA 1160 driven by 5 1/2 subC's) (1/2 hour runtime?)

For the smaller mods 1/2 is the magic number simply because brighter is better in most cases and 1/2 hour is MY minimum for that situation, otherwise, carry a bigger light!

I guess what I'm saying is, NO, I won't feel that way, at least. The Mag85 variants are actual, usuable everyday lights. Enough runtime to take a dog for a walk, as my son does, etc.

Less than a half hour runtime, in my viewpoint, makes it a specialty light, and here even the M6 fits, as do the shorter runtime Tigerlights, and so on.


Just my thoughts!


Bill


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## Ginseng (Jan 16, 2005)

BVH,

That's a pretty high voltage. I would try 7 cells first. If it takes it, then you can try 8 well rested cells (1 hour). Flashing is always a possibility I'm afraid and you are one of the few to be using KAN1300s...go on, take one for the team. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Also, I can't comment on the innards of your older charger. I'm not familiar with that setup. Try contacting srue for additional assistance.

I tend to agree with bwaites on the breakdown of mods. Although I classify the ultrashort runtime, ultrabright lights such as USL and Aurora more as demonstration lights than lights with any practical value. Although I've used the Aurora to chase deer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

"Duty lights" comprise 60+ minute runtime units like the MC60/Mag60BP and MC74/Mag74BP. The "rumble lights" as I call them (MC85/Mag85BP) provide much more light but at significantly reduced runtime in similar form factors.

The suitability of lights is entirely needs driven. In one case, 7 minutes of 3,000+ lumens hit the spot and in another case, 2.5 hours of 250 lumens was just right. What you need when you need it is my mantra.

Wilkey


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 27, 2005)

Does any/everyone elses M*Gcharger switches have rollers on BOTH sides???

The ones I got fron Cases For Less do!

I gotta get my stuff out of storage to start playing though!!!


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## Ginseng (Jan 27, 2005)

Yes Joe, 

Two rollers because there are twice the number of cam profiles as in the regular Mags. This accounts for the faster cyclical focusing action.

Wilkey


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## BVH (Jan 27, 2005)

Reporting in on the use of 8 new (cycled 3 times so far) KAN 1300's in my M*gChr85. Batteries rested at least an hour after charging (using the LaCross charger) and NO FLASH of my 1185! I got about 18 min total run time in 5 minute run times. I hope to get a little more total time after a few more cycles of the KAN's.


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## NotRegulated (Jan 31, 2005)

Newbie asks: How do I take my 3D Mag apart? Where can I find instructions?
I have several 3D mags lying around and this idea really renews my interest in the Mag.

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
Well, that is all for now. This is not a guide as to how to do the mod yourself. It's easy and instructions and expertise abound for how to take out and take apart the Mag switch section. I will probably come back and post directions pertaining to the most relevant steps...but it's really that easy. Oh, one more thing. I tested this with Otokoyama's Perfect Mag Reflector (PMR) and it works, well, perfectly.

Enjoy!

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Feb 1, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*NotRegulated said:*
Newbie asks: How do I take my 3D Mag apart? Where can I find instructions?
I have several 3D mags lying around and this idea really renews my interest in the Mag.


[/ QUOTE ]

Written instructions and diagrams here:

http://www.orderoutdoors.com/msr_2.html

Here's a tutorial, with pictures:

http://rivergum.net/page/48

CPF mod-master Mr Bulk has instructions on "How To Build Your Own Space Needle", with some pictures detailing the switch assembly removal process:

http://darkgear.com/mrbulk/sn2build.htm


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## LEDmodMan (Feb 4, 2005)

I got my bi-pin slugs in the mail today (thanks Wilkey!), and wanted to try one out really fast.

I stuck it into my mag 6D which uses a 9 cell 1/2 D AeroNiMh pack to drive a WA01185 and dropped in one of the new modded Carley reflectors from Litho123's last group buy. 

Unfortunately, there is a slight problem. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif The magcharger slug is about 0.010" - 0.015" larger in diameter than the threaded ring on the stock mag slug. Because of this, the enlarged bore in the rear of the reflector is still too small and therefore can't screw down far enough to achieve the tightest possible focus. The simplist fix for this is to not push the bulb all the way down into the bi-pin slug. However, there are potential issues that this may cause.

Another option is to slightly enlarge the bore in the rear of the reflector. That is what I did. There is still some trouble with using this method. There is a good distance between the filament of the WA bulb and the base of the bulb pinch. Even when the bulb is sitting flush in the bi-pin slug, it is still difficult to get the right focus and have the head of the light screw down past the o-ring. The only way to get the bulb into the proper position inside of the reflector and still have the head of the light be able to screw down past the o-ring is to lock the slug down so that it only protrudes out of the plastic post about 0.050" - 0.060". The slug will go up into the bore of the reflector slightly, and you will be able to get the proper focus and still maintain water resistance.

The other option, and the one I think is the best, would be to shorten the protrusion on the rear of the modded Carley reflector. Just grind it down (or all the way off) being careful not to scratch the reflector's surface or get debris on it.

I wrote this post in a hurry, and from home where my dial-up access SUCKS, so I'll have to get back to you all on Monday. Good luck everyone!!!


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## Ginseng (Feb 5, 2005)

LED,

I wish I had one of those Carley reflectors when I did my testing. I guess the tolerance is just too tight. The PMR and Fivemega reflectors should be fine though. Another thing you might want to do is to snip off 2mm of the bulb pins so it seats farther down in the pin socket. This can make a dramatic difference in focusing. 

As for modding the Carley reflector, I have done that by grinding out the bore with a cylindrical bit and a Dremel.

Wilkey


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## juancho (Feb 5, 2005)

This situation is not only germane to the Bi-pin, I had to open up the three reflectors that I got from Litho 123 (Carley 1940 mod.) to make then work with the regular slug in the Maglite, and I did the jaming of the slug with the instructions that Ginseng provided long ago in CPF, You still using the metal of the oven cookie sheet, Ginseng??
I have hear that this problem with the Carley reflectors was due to Carley using a drill below the minimun dimension that Litho 123 provide for this mod.
Litho said that next time he will especify a few thosands more to be on the safe side.
Not having a botton drill of the proper diameter I had to open them up with an scraper, and I am not looking forward to do it again.
In my opinion the Carley small hole and the regular slug or the bi-pin coming from behind and closing the entrance prevents any light from going down the drain (thru the big hole of the cammed one's) It seems to me that produces a little more light than the cammed reflector.
Juan C.


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## Ginseng (Feb 5, 2005)

Juan, I think you're right on about the more light. Yup, I use either aluminum cookie sheet or spare copper flashing I have laying around. They're both snipped easily and also pounded flat easily too.

Wilkey


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## bwaites (Feb 5, 2005)

I use the snipped off leads from the Mag switches I've made into LED's.

Cut the right length, pinch one end with pliers into a V shape, slide the flat end behind a slightly loosened roller screw, tighten the screw, voila!

Bill


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## LEDmodMan (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Mag-MagCharger Hybrid; HEAT issues*

HEAT PROBLEMS:
I had a bit of a scare Saturday night while using (and playing) with the light I mentioned before (WA01185 on 9 1/2D nimh). There was a bunch of noise coming from outside, and it turns out it was coming from two cats pissed off at one another. One was up the street in the middle of the road, and it was voicing its displeasure at another cat that was under a car parked in a driveway. Once the two cats were both completely illuminated /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif, the noise ceased and the two cats dispersed. Did I mention how much I like these 1185's? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I was shining the light about for a few more minutes, then went inside. When I walked inside, I noticed that the edges of the bowtie-shaped beam had an orangish hue to them that didn't look right. I turned the light off at that point. It was on for about 10 minutes total. I immediately saw a cloudy haze coating the reflector. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sick.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

I carefully removed the head of the light (with safety glasses on), and set the light in the garage for about 10 minutes to cool off. I then took the head inside and took the reflector and lens out. I turned on the hot water in the kitchen sink, and used the sprayer to clean the reflector. Luckily, the haze came off easily, and the small amount of water that remained on the reflector evaporated quickly due to the Al being hot from the water. I did the same for the lens, and had no problems there either. I then retrieved the light from the garage, removed the bulb, and saw that the top of the bi-pin holder had gotten too hot and started to burn. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Upon closer inspection, (20x) it is very apparent that the plastic part of the bulb holder is likely made of FRN (fiberglass reinfoced nylon) or the like, as the part that burned left the glass fibers behind (called burn-out) still sticking out of the part.

I then remembered the mica heat shields for the magcharger that Wilkey made awhile ago, and retrieved a piece of the same kind of material to make some for myself. FYI, the thermal 'paper' inside of just about every hairdryer I've seen is a GREAT source for this thin glass-mica type of heatshield material. I used the stuff that protects the exterior of the hairdryer from heat to make mine (a large, thin strip rolled into a circle), because it is thinner than the stuff that is usually used to support the heating coils. It is thin enough to easily cut with scissors, and you can also make the small holes by hand with a small drill bit without any trouble.

I used two shields between the bulb and holder, and I'm happy to report that even after a 20-minute extended run with light fully assembled, I am no longer having heat (burning) problems. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

FYI, I did some temperature testing using a digital thermocouple while investigating this problem. I measured almost 800 degrees F at the base of the bulb (where the fill nipple is) after only a few minutes on a WA01185, at which point I stopped because the holder was smoking pretty good again. I let the light cool off, cleaned the bulb off with isopropyl alcohol and let it dry, then tested with two heat shields installed. The temperature slowly settled out at 430 degrees F after 10 minutes behind the shields, so you can see these heat shields really do work well. The ambient temp in my garage for this test was 62 degree F.


Finally, some words of *CAUTION* follow.
First, all of this has been said before, but I think it bears reiteration. The WA superbulbs get *<font color="red">VERY HOT*</font>. They nedd to be handled with the utmost care. Also, they are under high pressure, especially when hot. You MUST use proper safety equipment (glasses, face shield, etc.) to avoid the possibility of being injured.


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Mag-MagCharger Hybrid; HEAT issues*

Great idea! I'm thinking about purchasing a cheapo hairdryer to dissect for its precious mica innards. There must be a suitable donor at the dollar store, or maybe even a garage sale...

I assume this is what you meant by "the stuff that is usually used to support the heating coils":







And this is what you meant by "the stuff that protects the exterior of the hairdryer from heat (a large, thin strip rolled into a circle)":






The images were taken from the hair dryer article at Howstuffworks.Com

http://home.howstuffworks.com/hair-dryer.htm


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## Ginseng (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Mag-MagCharger Hybrid; HEAT issues*

Yikes! 

LEDmm, that is scary for sure and has happenend to me a few times. I measure over 600F on the bulb and stopped there because the insulation on my thermocouple lead was starting to smoke. 

FYI, I've tried contacting the mica company but have had no response. I guess they were looking for a 1,000 sq yard sale. Hmm, that would make about 2.5 million heat shields. I'll keep looking. If I can't find a source, I'll post some directions as I made them.

Wilkey


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Mag-MagCharger Hybrid; HEAT issues*

For sure whan more info comes forth about the Hair Dryer stuff...

SHOUT IT OUT!!!

Because I don't need these problems!!!


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## LEDmodMan (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Mag-MagCharger Hybrid; HEAT issues*

Hookd,
BINGO, you got it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

In your first picture, I'm not sure what the material is that support the heating coils. However, the stuff in the second pic looks right on the target! The stuff I have that supported the heating coils is the same as the thin strip, just much more heavy duty. It's way too thick for our use, and it would be a pain to cut to shape. I was actually going through some stuff when I saw this and I was like /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif that's perfect for those magcharger heat shields Wilkey made. The sheet is about 0.015" thick. I then put it in my box O' flashlight junk for future use. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Quick HOW TO:
All I did was use the mag bulb slug for a template and traced a half dozen circles onto the mica sheet with a fine point sharpie. I then roughly cut them out with regular scissors (DON'T use your wife's good sewing scissors /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif) so they would be a bit smaller than the metal slug. Next, I took a WA bulb and marked the spacing for the pins, making sure it was close to centered on the disc. I then took a 0.040" diameter drill (#60, a little smaller would be better) and drilled the holes for the pins by hand (spun the bit with my fingers). A 1/16" drill bit could work if you don't have number drills that small, but the holes would be a bit larger than they need to be. Next, I used a 5/64" drill to make the hole for the bulb pigtail (also spun the bit with my fingers).

Wilkey,
The sheathing on my thermocouple is fiberglass, so it only burns (melts) in a HOT direct flame. I was a bit surprised as well about how hot the WA01185 got and how quickly. When I stopped it due to the smoke coming from the bi-pin adapter, the temperature was still rising fairly quickly. So, I'm glad the heat shields work so well!!! A big /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif to you for that idea!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


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## Donovan (Feb 21, 2005)

Went to purchase the MC switch and noticed the other parts, namely the glass lens and metal reflector. Does the MC metal reflector and lens fit into a standard 2D mag?


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## Joseph (Feb 21, 2005)

Yes for the lens and No for the reflector.
You cannot use MC reflector for standard mags.


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## Donovan (Feb 21, 2005)

So where do you buy a metal reflector for a 2D?


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## wasBlinded (Apr 11, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

You don't need to cannibalize a hair dryer for the heat shield. I went to my local hardware store, where they do a lot of lamp repairs for people. They had this woven heat shield material in tubular form that they put over heat exposed wiring, and I bought a length of that stuff and made my heat shield. Since its woven, you don't need to drill on it like mica - just need to use a toothpick to make the holes for the bipin bulb. It was easy enough to cut into the proper 1/2" disk too.

I tested it over the gas range, and it will glow red hot but not burn. I think it has some kind of lubricant on it to make it flexible, since something on the surface carbonizes at high heat, and when that is burned away the material is fairly stiff.

Be careful cutting this stuff. I'm pretty sure it is asbestos (edit: unlikely. see posts below) and you don't want to inhale it. To be absolutely safe, do it outside wearing a surgical type mask. While cutting it, I noticed little tiny pieces of the material popping into the air and on the scissors.

This heat shield works well. I put two disks under the bulb. On first firing it up, without the lens glass in place, there was a brief wisp of smoke which was the fabric 'lubricant' burning off, then there was no more smoke. The bi-pin slug has sustained no new visible damage since putting the shields in place.

Here is a pic of the stuff:


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## bwaites (Apr 12, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

Interesting...

I'd like some to try, can I buy some?

Bill


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## wasBlinded (Apr 12, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

I can send you a segment for free, but I don't really want to be selling asbestos to people. There is a whole industry in this country built around asbestos lawsuits /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

I will say I'm not certain this is asbestos, but if it isn't I sure don't know what it is.


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Apr 12, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

I think it's fiberglass.

The description in this link sounds like what you've discovered: "Although the acrylic resin degrades at operating temperatures above 200°C, FGS continues to provide thermal and space factor insulation as high as 650°C with continuous operation at 450°C."

http://cableorganizer.com/fiberglass/

http://www.davlyn.com/DS_FiberglassRopetape.htm

The surgical mask is a good idea. Even though the sleeve is probably not asbestos, you still probably don't want to inhale any particles.

I bought an old hair dryer at a garage sale (50 cents!), and harvested the mica innards. I haven't gotten around to cutting a heat shield yet, because of a combination of procrastination, a busy schedule, and four febrile, puking children. I'll post an update whenever I get around to it...


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## wasBlinded (Apr 12, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

Excellent. Very glad to know it is probably fiberglass. I was trying to understand how asbestos would be available to anyone anymore.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Apr 12, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

GOT to find me an old hairdryer!!!

Would make using a M*gBP85 SO much better!


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## Phreeq (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

Wear a mask (NIOSH class 95) when working with this material even if it's fiberglass. 
1. Fiberglass particles thinner than 3 micrometers are also able to enter the pulmonary alveoli. If the particles are longer than 20 micrometers the macrophages won't be able to remove the particles.
2. Even if the particles don't enter the alveoli, they'll irritate the upper respiratory passages.


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## mike2004 (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

[ QUOTE ]
*Phreeq said:*
Wear a mask (NIOSH class 95) when working with this material even if it's fiberglass. 
1. Fiberglass particles thinner than 3 micrometers are also able to enter the pulmonary alveoli. If the particles are longer than 20 micrometers the macrophages won't be able to remove the particles.
2. Even if the particles don't enter the alveoli, they'll irritate the upper respiratory passages. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Is a stupid flashlight worth the risk of messing with this stuff?


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## mckevin (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

PlayboyJoeShmoe, 
PM me an address & I'll mail you a bit.

mike2004,
ummm, "stupid flashlight"?!?!?


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## mike2004 (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

[ QUOTE ]
*mckevin said:*

mike2004,
ummm, "stupid flashlight"?!?!? 

[/ QUOTE ] /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/oops.gif


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Apr 16, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

PM sent! Big /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif to mckevin!


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## wasBlinded (Apr 19, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

I did an extended run on my Mag85BP (regular Mag with a MC Bipin slug installed), and despite the fiberglass heat shield material, there is still some melt-off of the BP slug, though much reduced.

Amazing, however, is that not only the slug is getting cooked, but on my light even the top edge of the plastic sleeve that holds the slug is sustaining damage, and smoke clouding the reflector./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

It looks to me like the only way to get extended run times without damage in a a Mag85 is to replace the entire slug assembly with something like Kiu's superbulb holder. Thank goodness I have one on the way.


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## Kevlarman (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

Hmm, I've got asome Kevlar cloth lying around; maybe I can use it as a heat shield in one of these high temperature lamps I got at a garage sale. It's 650W and when I leave it on for more than a few minutes at a time the plastic housing starts to smoke! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


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## captjlw (May 4, 2005)

*Re: BiPin Mag: Heat shield material*

FWIW, I followed the lead in another thread somewhere in the CPF and got an old hair dryer, took it apart, and got a piece of mica insulation out. After triming and shaping, placing it between the bulb and the bi-pin plug stopped the smoking. There is still a little heat damage showing where the pins plug in but no burning and smoking. The mica shapes easily with a razor. I left a loose fit between the bulb and the mica to avoid direct contact heat transfer. I'm using a w/a1185 in a 4D mag with a 9aa to D and one D. Being overdriven that much, I had smoke within 2 mins w/o the mica. With the mica I'm still OK even after 10 mins or so of constant on.


----------

