# is it time for a zebralight subforum?!?!?



## Blue72 (Jun 9, 2012)

I find myself coming to the headlamp forum less and less, because its almost exclusively about zebralights.

Nothing against zebralight, they are great lights......but I like to see some different topics discussed


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## RedForest UK (Jun 9, 2012)

Only 3 of the top 10 threads right now are about zebralights. I see what you mean as zebralights do seem to take a massive market share for enthusiasts but it's not like the whole forum is just zebras zebras zebras. Headlamps are discussed on merit and as with anything the best ones will get the most attention.


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## varuscelli (Jun 9, 2012)

I don't think it would be practical to put ZebraLight headlamps in a separate subforum. 

Realistically, it looks as though the number of overall posts (not overall threads, but overall posts) in the Headlamps forum leans quite a bit toward ZebraLight due to heavy interest in those threads to which ZebraLight offerings are applicable. 

However, the number of overall topics is still very diverse with a majority of threads that have nothing to do with ZebraLight headlamps at all (or recommendation threads in which ZebraLight is often included as part of the topic along with other brands). Those topics that do involve ZebraLight tend to develop into long threads because there is such interest in the brand, and often the top two or three topics are ZebraLight topics due to heavy posting which pushes them back to the top. But it looks to me as though 75 to 80 percent of thread titles have nothing to do with ZebraLight headlamps (at a quick glance). 

Also...just to throw in a complication or two...how would recommendation threads be handled? For instance, where would a "Spark or Zebralight?" question be asked? Or, "Which One of These Three Headlamp for Camping?" if Zebralight was one of the candidates? You'd run into an awful lot of gray area and in many cases force interested folks to scan through two forums instead of one for threads of interest (or confuse folks about which forum they should post in...and to some degree make more work for moderators to keep things sorted). 

I think the headlamps forum, from a practical standpoint, is best served as it is. Just my perspective (no disrespect intended for the question being asked).


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## Bolster (Jun 9, 2012)

I would say "no." 

I dislike forums that are too specific; need to keep your peripheral vision intact.

PS: Zebralight will understandably dominate for awhile when a new model comes out. Same for other brands.

If you want different topics discussed, then post up! Nothing stopping you.


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## speedsix (Jun 10, 2012)

I would vote yes. I agree that this forum seems to talk about ZL too much. It would be nice to put all the Zebra Light topics in one place so I can ignore them easier. I don't like ZL and would never consider buying another one after my bad experience so to see this forum dominated by a light I consider to be overpriced garbage really limits my interest in searching.


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## speedsix (Jun 10, 2012)

There are 16 threads on the front page with Zebralight in the title and several more that are about ZL but are not titled. 

It's like some sort of club that I have no interest in joining is taking over the forum. To be honest, I am kind of surprised ZL is still in business but I guess I can wait a few years and not have to worry about it.


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## d1337 (Jun 10, 2012)

I like the forum the way it is. It seems like the headlamp forum it's self is kind of specialized and narrowing it any more would not really help. I think that Zebralight takes up a little more space because they are popular right now. Things will shift over time. I do see a little irony in that this thread that seems to be discussing if we are talking about Zebralight too much in this forum will end up being a thread where we talk about Zebralight some more.


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## srfreddy (Jun 10, 2012)

1: Double posts are usually frowned upon, use the edit button. 
2: I hardly think one experience means that you can say that the company should not be popular and should cease to exist. 
3: You are entitled to your own opinion, but... Zebralight is not "taking over" CPF. Many people enjoy their lights and think that they are good, but they have hardly become the only choice here.


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## varuscelli (Jun 10, 2012)

speedsix said:


> There are 16 threads on the front page with Zebralight in the title and several more that are about ZL but are not titled.
> 
> It's like some sort of club that I have no interest in joining is taking over the forum.



Well...looking over the list of thread titles on page 1, I count 14 titles with ZebraLight mentioned (at the time of this posting)...but if we split the difference at 15 out of 50, that works out to 70 percent of the thread titles being other than ZebraLight titles. 

There seem to be _plenty _of threads about non-ZebraLight offerings. 

Threads that include discussion about multiple brands can't be objectively seen as ZebraLight discussions. 

It's no one's fault if there is a lot of interest in ZebraLight headlamps...it's not like there's some kind of conspiracy going on...and there's plenty to read about and discuss that has nothing to do with ZebraLight. 

Personally, I'm interested in all kinds of headlamps and I'm glad to be able to find information on (or bring up for discussion) just about any headlamp I'd wish to right here. 

When there's something I'm not interested in that comes up for discussion, I just skim past the title and don't look any further into the thread.


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## kaichu dento (Jun 10, 2012)

speedsix said:


> I don't like ZL and would never consider buying another one after my bad experience so to see this forum dominated by a light I consider to be overpriced garbage really limits my interest in searching.


Zebralight makes garbage? More descriptive of your post here. Don't like a light, live and let live - let the multitudes who do like them post here without having to read this type of overly opinionated garbage.


speedsix said:


> It's like some sort of club that I have no interest in joining is taking over the forum. To be honest, I am kind of surprised ZL is still in business but I guess I can wait a few years and not have to worry about it.


Unless they start going in a suddenly different direction, they'll be here long after you or I.


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## Bolster (Jun 11, 2012)

Isn't it pretty easy not to open threads with Zebralight in the title? That would seem the easiest fix. No reason to change the forum.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 11, 2012)

Awhile back he would be talking about a Fenix headlamp subforum when they were all the buzz with 2-3 new headlamps.


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## CoherentRays (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm happy with just one headlamp forum. As a relative newcomer to the headlamp community, I like reading about all the available options in just one forum. I currently have a Zebralight H51Fw and a Fenix HL21 with the diffuser installed and I'm pretty happy with them for my own uses but I like reading about all the other units available or that are coming that might be better for me. 

To the members who think Zebralight is too dominant in this forum, why don't you start a thread about your favorite light and tell us why you think it's better than Zebralight, then maybe we'll all learn something new. 

Ed


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## speedsix (Jun 11, 2012)

kaichu dento said:


> Zebralight makes garbage? More descriptive of your post here. Don't like a light, live and let live - let the multitudes who do like them post here without having to read this type of overly opinionated garbage.
> Unless they start going in a suddenly different direction, they'll be here long after you or I.



How about you just learn to deal with it?


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## Lou Minescence (Jun 11, 2012)

Things come and go. Zebralight is popular for now. I noticed when someone wanted a recommendation for a light, someone always chimed in "get a Zebralight" no matter what the posters criteria was. Zebralight has obtained a cult following.
Zebralight could pay for a spot in the Market Place for a more specific place to post about Zebralights.


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## dbare (Jun 11, 2012)

I love my Zebralight sc51w :devil:


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## YoSeKi (Jun 11, 2012)

speedsix said:


> It would be nice to put all the Zebra Light topics in one place so I can ignore them easier. I don't like ZL and would never consider buying another one after my bad experience so to see this forum dominated by a light I consider to be overpriced garbage really limits my interest in searching.





speedsix said:


> How about you just learn to deal with it?



That is great advice for yourself.


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## Bolster (Jun 11, 2012)

Lou Minescence said:


> Things come and go.



Truly. What will happen when Spark finally gets their 1AA headlamp out the door?

Or when someone finally makes a nice quality 1AAA headlamp?


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## kaichu dento (Jun 12, 2012)

speedsix said:


> How about you just learn to deal with it?


Already said it in my previous post and you've just proven your inability to make anything resembling a beneficial post. 

Many of us like Zebralights and you don't - just pass by any thread about Zebralights and you won't have to hear about them.


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## gcbryan (Jun 12, 2012)

I understand that it can get boring when everything seems to be about Zebralight. I have a couple of them and love them and I still get bored by all of the Zebralight threads but so what 

If someone starts an interesting thread about another good headlamp I'll read that too. At the moment not many people are doing that so Zebralight dominates the conversation.

Solarforce dominates the Budget Light forum...again...so what 

Actually before I had any Zebralights I was getting a little tired of the "cult-like" following. Now that I have a couple I too like them more than my other headlamps so now I don't consider it to be "cult-like" to like them


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## damn_hammer (Jun 12, 2012)

i see the op point regarding all the zebralight threads, there are a lot. it seems some are about lights that only exist on a spreadsheet, which seems pointless to me ... so I try to just skip those. that and their headlamps are so versatile seems to result in threads across the cpf categories. i've wondered myself before why zl doesn't have a sub-forum in the the marketplace/manufacturers area, guess they don't want one ...


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## varuscelli (Jun 12, 2012)

damn_hammer said:


> ...it seems some are about lights that only exist on a spreadsheet, which seems pointless to me ... so I try to just skip those.



Ahh, but lots of folks love discussing the potential of lights that are yet to be released -- and I have to admit that it seems like a smart tactic by ZebraLight to generate early interest in lights that will be purchasable in the near future. 

While it's true that the preview information on the ZL comparison chart sometimes backfires as a public relations move when preliminary release dates are pushed back (oh, the indignation expressed by some forum members when that almost inevitably happens!), I also believe that in the majority of cases the early look at specs just gets potential buyers salivating in anticipation of release for sale.


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## Bolster (Jun 12, 2012)

gcbryan said:


> I understand that it can get boring when everything seems to be about Zebralight. I have a couple of them and love them and I still get bored by all of the Zebralight threads but so what...Actually before I had any Zebralights I was getting a little tired of the "cult-like" following. How that I have a couple I too like them more than my other headlamps so now I don't consider it to be "cult-like" to like them



That's my orientation too: I'd like to see a broader discussion of more brands, don't like being part of a cult, but at the same time have to admit these ZLs are darned good machines. I like Sparks a lot but so far they haven't been replacing ZLs. Maybe when they debut their, what is it, SD5? Maybe then we'll have some decent competition in the 1AA category.


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## Bolster (Jun 12, 2012)

Another way to look at this topic, rather than ZL vs everyone else, is: "1AA vs everyone else." Clearly this marketplace likes 1AA lights with partial to total flood. Yet look at Spark, they've concentrated on everything but. SureFire won't touch a 1AA. Neither will Petzl nor other popular brands. And then by the time you get down to the Irix Icons and other inexpensive ones, they're not really enthusiast's lights. 

So maybe this is not so much dominance by ZL, but dominance of 1AA configuration (by beam type).

You gotta admit, a small single cell bright light (of narrow to wide flood as matches your use) is a compelling package. 

I wish the other manufacturers would wake up to this. And the market is languishing for a floody 1AAA headlamp. Look at how the marketplace adores 1AAA handhelds (me too; I don't particularly like AAA but I own a Preon, it's my EDC; before that I carried a Fenix L0D). Now consider the additional advantage of that tiny size on your head; it would be like wearing nothing. Geez, what an opportunity just waiting for someone to capitalize on it. Eventually ZL will wake up and make it. Then we'll have more ZL dominance.

Any other mfg could step in and beat ZL to the punch here. But they probably won't. They're all so busy cranking out 3AAAs with tightly focused beams that are virtual clones of each other, so they can't be bothered to innovate.

It kills me all the innovative ideas this forum offers up that the mfgrs blithely ignore.


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## uk_caver (Jun 12, 2012)

It does seem that some of the ZL enthusiasts can be a bit on the zealous side, but that's not really a ZL-specific thing, more that there seem to be quite a few ZL enthusiasts around, and also a seemingly constant supply of different models for people to start threads on.

I suppose in an ideal world, forum software would allow thread hiding based on words in a thread title (or metadata attached to a thread), or even reader-definable subforums based on something similar, so things people are particularly interested in (or not interested in) could be collected together to keep them easily accessible or out of the way.

But in the existing system, and in what is likely to exist for the foreseeable future, trying to create specific subforums does run into the issue mentioned above - at what point does a thread get declared to be too specific for the general forum, how much moderator effort ends up being expended on moving threads or making judgements, etc?

And if even just one or two over-keen people got the idea that ZLs were being 'hidden away', might they take it upon themselves to make a point of promoting them _more_ heavily than currently happens in more general headlamp threads?


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## speedsix (Jun 13, 2012)

For some reason, ZL fans are touchy about the known quality control issues and simply go bezerk if anyone points it out. I have my pet fav lights but I don't really care if someone else thinks they are junk. If it is not true, it shouldn't bother you. The fact is, ZL seems to have a higher fail rate than any other light in the same price range. This has been proven with multiple polls and endless first hand experience from countless members. Seems like if you get a good one, it is fine but if you get a bad one, you are jerk for daring to speak up about it. 

I am sure many people are afraid to even admit they had problems with ZL because of the inevitable backlash from ZL fanboys.


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## varuscelli (Jun 13, 2012)

speedsix...on the opposite end of the fanboy spectrum are those who harbor ongoing resentments based on some past light failure, and there are a few of those out there, too. I think most of us fall somewhere in between -- basically satisfied customers or prospective purchasers who are interested in some of the variety of offerings from ZebraLight and who like discussing the headlamps or flashlights we're interested in. 

As uk_caver said, the number of models (especially headlamps) from ZebraLight does provide a lot more in terms of models to discuss than most manufacturer offerings. Does anyone else even come close in terms of current models? Or offer such an intriguing variety? I don't know for sure...but I don't think so. 

But going back to the original question of a separate ZebraLight forum -- I still see that as an impractical suggestion for reasons that have already been brought up in this thread. 

For those who think it desirable to have a separate ZebraLight subforum, how would you address the impracticalities that have already been brought up for discussion? And how would you justify the need for separation when balanced against the impracticalities?


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## neonnoun (Jun 13, 2012)

My current interest in headlamps is to keep abreast of the lights that are coming out. Right now I've got to say that Zebralight looks tempting. That said, I'm not buying until September-October. In the meantime, I'm listening for anything that would beat out my current frontrunner. It will happen sooner or later, but this is the forum where we will all become aware of the next great thing.


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## uk_caver (Jun 13, 2012)

speedsix, is there reasonably accurate information on the numbers of headlights of various makes in that price range which people here own (and regularly use), by which failure rates per light can be worked out?

A lot can depend on popularity and associated things like how much people talk about a particular make (giving opportunities for people to mention failures) and even how effusive some people might be about working models of a light - the more someone is banging on about how wonderful something is the more some people might be tempted to post their negative experiences (or even repost their negative experiences). Polarisation can breed polarisation.

For example, if I were to judge headlights in the ~$50-$75 range based on failure reports I'd seen on the _NSS_ forum, there would certainly have been a time when I would have concluded the PT apex was crap because of the numerous failure reports from cavers, but (as well as at least early versions of the light seeming to have some definite serious issues with respect to failing in the damp), quite a lot of that was down to popularity of ownership in that group of people (and so a relatively boosted absolute number of failures) and the likelihood someone with a failed light would encounter a thread mentioning the Apex fairly frequently.

At least at the point when I was reading the ZL threads more frequently, when there were issues being brought up regarding some models, I seem to remember people mentioning problems without automatically getting shouted down by the more extreme fans.
Maybe things have changed somewhat in that regard?

Though I really don't understand the whole 'fan' thing anyway.
Maybe some people might have found floody headlights a great revelation, but I guess when I got my first (early) ZL, I'd been making/using floody headlights for years, and my H50 was just a somewhat less bright and much smaller version of what I already had.


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## kaichu dento (Jun 14, 2012)

speedsix said:


> For some reason, ZL fans are touchy about the known quality control issues and simply go bezerk if anyone points it out. I have my pet fav lights but I don't really care if someone else thinks they are junk. If it is not true, it shouldn't bother you. The fact is, ZL seems to have a higher fail rate than any other light in the same price range. This has been proven with multiple polls and endless first hand experience from countless members. Seems like if you get a good one, it is fine but if you get a bad one, you are jerk for daring to speak up about it.
> 
> I am sure many people are afraid to even admit they had problems with ZL because of the inevitable backlash from ZL fanboys.


There are also those who no matter how much they dislike a light refuse to pass by threads specifically dedicated to said light and in your case it appears that anyone who doesn't share your attitude towards Zebralight gets automatically termed as a fanboy so that you can discredit them as being blinded by their devotion to the object of your scorn. 

No on called you a jerk, at least here on CPF, and no one's gone berzerk here either, but when you come in and suggest that everything made by the company is junk because you had a bad experience, it may attract some scrutiny. 

I only have one SC51w and it's a great light.


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## chillinn (Feb 11, 2016)

Could 2016 be the Year of the ZebraLight CPF Subforum?


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## WigglyTheGreat (Feb 12, 2016)

chillinn said:


> Could 2016 be the Year of the ZebraLight CPF Subforum?



Realizing that this thread started in 2012, then I would guess not. It didn't happen then so why would it now.


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## markr6 (Feb 12, 2016)

WigglyTheGreat said:


> It didn't happen then so why would it now.



1. Becasue it would be nice to organize the 192,752.6 Zebralight threads we have floating around out there.
2. Because Zebralight.


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## nbp (Feb 12, 2016)

You'll have to ask ZL. If they aren't interested in managing a subforum, it's a no-go.


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## markr6 (Feb 12, 2016)

Their CPF account (ZebraLight) hasn't posted since 12-06-2012. That's too bad. It would be fun to interact with them.


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## Tachead (Feb 12, 2016)

markr6 said:


> Their CPF account (ZebraLight) hasn't posted since 12-06-2012. That's too bad. It would be fun to interact with them.


 
I wonder why? You would think they would want to offer additional customer support as well as interact with their customer base. Its unfortunate. At least they answer their emails though.


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## markr6 (Feb 12, 2016)

I bet they were just too busy. And they probably saw how some of us complain to no end (like me) and thought "I'm not messing with those guys!"

I think they would also drum up a ton of business, branding and discussion on Facebook. But they stopped posting there years ago.


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## uofaengr (Feb 23, 2016)

I'm sure they're too busy, but a Zebralight YouTube channel would be just great.


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## eh4 (Feb 24, 2016)

Free market. ZL makes amazing, minimalist lights... I'd love to see more competition and improvements in that direction, especially domestic manufacturers! But hey!


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