# Noctigon Meteor M43



## Fireclaw18

Just saw some pictures of the *Noctigon Meteor M43* flashlight prototype which is scheduled to release at the end of March. Looks to be the first flashlight manufactured by Noctigon. Noctigon is well known among flashlight modders as a maker of direct copper LED stars.

No info on runtime, output UI or price yet (though I'd guess around $200, as the Noctigons and emitters alone would cost $80). The listing showing pictures of the prototype is up at International Outdoors. Richard at Mountain Electronics has also said he'll carry them when they're out.

From the pictures and descriptions, here's what is known:
* Looks similar to the Zebralight S6330 in external appearance, styling, and size (though can't tell for sure without measurements). 
* Bezel and tailcap are black. Body is anodized aluminum available in white or grey.
* From the pictures, it looks shorter and stubbier than other multi-18650 lights on the market.
* runs on 4x18650
* Emitter arrangement: 12 emitters. Appears to be 4x20mm noctigon direct copper triple stars with 4x carclo triple-TIR optics.
* Emitter choices: 12x of one of the following 3 choices: CREE XPG2 S3, Nichia 219B high CRI, or dedomed XPL.
* Button appears to be translucent. My guess is the light has an electronic switch, probably with a low-voltage indicator light under the button.

Here are the pictures from the International Outdoors website:


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## kj2

Bookmarked it


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## more_vampires

LOL! Are we moving from the "soda can" format towards the "tuna can" format? 

Don't get me wrong. I want one. It looks lumeniscious.


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## Ryp

Reminds me of a Zebralight S6330.


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## leon2245

more_vampires said:


> LOL! Are we moving from the "soda can" format towards the "tuna can" format?
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I want one. It looks lumeniscious.




We'll eventually be inserting batteries vertically, so that they stand up in a row parallel to the lens.


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## Str8stroke

The Noctigon Tuna Flood. I do like the look of that thing. First thought is heavy, love knurling and bright!


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## blackadder911

A lot of lumen juice will come from it..


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## more_vampires

leon2245 said:


> We'll eventually be inserting batteries vertically, so that they stand up in a row parallel to the lens.



I actually want this very badly! Looking for tuna can format light thread:
hhttp://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?397541-BOLO-Looking-for-quot-Tuna-Can-quot-quot-Hockey-Puck-quot-quot-Snuff-Can-quot-format-lights&p=4605750#post4605750

Could Noctigon pull it off?


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## Fireclaw18

Str8stroke said:


> The Noctigon Tuna Flood. I do like the look of that thing. First thought is heavy, love knurling and bright!



Probably not that heavy. 

Format and size look similar to the Zebralight S6330 .... which basically makes it one of the smallest multi-18650 lights around. This thing is probably considerably shorter and lighter than competing name-brand lights like the Thrunite TN36. It's definitely not a pants-pocket EDC, but should be considerably more compact than other soda-can shape lights.

I wonder how hard-driven the output will be. It has the same emitter setup as Mountain Electronics upcoming mega-M6 (modded Supfire M6). If it's driven to max with a FET driver output could be as high 12,000 lumens out-the-front at startup with XPL emitters.

Also unknown if it has a thermal sensor chip or turbo timer to reduce output to prevent overheating. Hopefully a thermal sensor is used.

My guess is the price will be at least $200 and quite possibly more. The emitters and optics alone cost $100. Then throw in the driver, switch and the custom host, and the price only goes up.


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## JohnSmith

That thing is crazy! First time I've seen a 12 emitter light!


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## ThirstyTurtle

Subscribed for updates. It looks WAY short for 18650s though...or maybe the head is bigger than I think?


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## jonwkng

That's one tiny light. For a Quad Triple... Will be interesting to see how well it handles the heat, especially the XP-L variant. 

I'm definitely interested in this Quad Triple in 219B. Will make a great tiny companion to my Triple Quad X40Vn.


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## recDNA

Nah....too short. Would be really nice if 2x2 18650 to mke it longer. Love the head though.


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## more_vampires

Lol, you want it longer, I want it shorter. C'est la vie!


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## Fireclaw18

more_vampires said:


> Lol, you want it longer, I want it shorter. C'est la vie!



Yeah. I recall that on International Outdoors it's advertised as an "ultracompact 4x18650 turbo light". 

Like the Zebralight S6330 it is clearly modeled after, the whole point of the design is to get as much functionality into as small a package as possible. It's for people who want massive light in a tiny package. If you're looking for the same brightness and battery setup in a bigger light, then this light is probably not the one for you.


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## Mr. Tone

I have to have that with the hi cri Nichias!


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## recDNA

Multi li ion scare me


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## Fireclaw18

Got some new info on this light (cut and pasted from thread on BLF):

- up to 8500 Lumens Output (XP-L dedomed)
- 4*Carclo 10507 Optics
- Modes: Moonlight-Low-Mid-High-Turbo
- programmable Modes
- High 1,5A, Turbo 2A per LED 
- High drain batteries needed





- integrated low Voltage Detection
- integrated Temperaturecontrol


Estimated prices:
- XP-G2 158 US$
- Nichia 188 US$
- XP-L dedomed 218 US$

Price seems decent for the features.


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## Mr. Tone

Awesome, the Nichia is in my future.


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## easilyled

It would be interesting if each quad could have a different emitter type, so 1 quad containing XPG-S2s, the second containing Nichia 219Bs, the third containing dedomed XPLs.


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## Croquette

I want one ! Will take the nichia.


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## CelticCross74

That is one of the funkiest proportioned lights I have ever seen. Its so short how are you supposed to get a complete grip around it? Runs on high drains, this is an expensive light to buy and run. Will wait until some reviews are done on it before I try to buy an S6330.


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## FroggyTaco

In XP-L config this is going to redefine the "wall of light" statement.


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## h!fisch

Plz tell me...what are u going to do with 8000lm right in front of your feet leading to a complete "white out" so that you'll have to choose a lower mode to see something? 
But to be honest...I want that light!!!


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## recDNA

No need for flash bangs to disorient perps. Just go in with 8500 lumens blasting at them.


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## FroggyTaco

They should have a 5 sec delayed turn on mode.. Throw it in the room & Bam.. same thing as a flashbang.


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## h!fisch

Ahm...pretty expensive flashbang don't you think?!  
I'm wondering how often you could throw thant thing away until it refuses to "flashbang".


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## hutten

As much as it's not a light for me, it's pretty impressive. Wonder how quickly it heats up when it's pumping out all 8000 lumens.


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## electromage

leon2245 said:


> We'll eventually be inserting batteries vertically, so that they stand up in a row parallel to the lens.



I used to have a light sort of like that. It took four D cells arranged in a circle behind the reflector. It also had a battery level meter on the back, pretty cool but I can't remember what happened to it or what it was called.


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## edeekeos

Ah, we're getting closer!! The website now has all emitter options, and pricing up, as well as the other body color. Here's the product page..

And, here are a few updated pics..


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## ThirstyTurtle

Beautiful IMO. Strange, but beautiful haha.


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## edeekeos

It should give a whole new meaning to 'wall of light'!! haha


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## jonwkng

How can anyone not skip a heartbeat at the sight of that beautiful and huge Noctigon MCPCB. 

Stone white - now that's just stunning. Hopefully the option remains for the production light. 
:thumbsup:Kudos to Hank and his team!!!


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## easilyled

jonwkng said:


> How can anyone not skip a heartbeat at the sight of that beautiful and huge Noctigon MCPCB.
> 
> Stone white - now that's just stunning. Hopefully the option remains for the production light.
> :thumbsup:Kudos to Hank and his team!!!



Its certainly interesting that the neutral option is binned for higher output (S3) than the cool-white (S2) !


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## Mr. Tone

Sweet pics!


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## kj2

Like the dark color version


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## KuanR

I hope the optics will be easy to change out...That would mean one could easily install 12 trits!


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## kj2

KuanR said:


> I hope the optics will be easy to change out...That would mean one could easily install 12 trits!



Would make it even more awesome


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## Fireclaw18

Just noticed the site for this light at International Outdoors was updated.

It now has pictures of the light with both the white and charcoal grey finishes. (buyer gets to choose among the 2 finishes and the available emitters)

Base price for the light is $158.68 ... sounds pretty good considering the size of the light and what it comes with.
The star is a single custom direct copper Noctigon containing mounting points for all 12 of the emitters. The star is pretty hefty too weighing in at 3 oz (85g).
The dimensions of the overall light are: 98mm (length) * 63mm (head) * 50mm (body).
The light runs on 4 * 18650

*Emitter options (12 of your choice of the following)*:
Cool White XPG2 S2 1D
XPG2 S2 1D dedomed (+$10)
Neutral White XPG2 S3 3C
Neutral White Nichia 219BT 92 CRI (+$30)
Cree XPL dedomed (+$60)


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## ThirstyTurtle

Strange that there's no option for XP-L dome on, only dedomed...


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## Fireclaw18

ThirstyTurtle said:


> Strange that there's no option for XP-L dome on, only dedomed...



That's because it's using the 10507 20mm Carclo triple TIR optic. The inside of the optic cavity is designed for an XPG and is too narrow to fit an XPL with the dome on. Unfortunately, nobody makes a 20mm triple optic that fits an XPL. 

To fit an fit XPL into a 20mm triple optic, one of the following has to be done:

*1. Dedome the emitter* - changes the tint, but without the dome in the way the optic easily fits in place. Gives a slightly narrower and throwier beam, but is still a very floody light. Dedoming reduces lumens maybe 15% while increasing throw by probably around 75%. This is probably the most common solution.

*2. Modify the optic* - Some people grind out the inside of the optic cavity. Just enough to make room for the wide XPL dome. This gives MUCH better tint than dedoming. Also gives a very wide floody beam. The downside is backscatter in the ground portion of the optic reduces total lumen output by approximately 20%. Mountain Electronics offers the grinding service on their Carclo optics if you wish to try this.

*3. Squeeze the domed LED into unmodified optic *- not recommended as any bump on the flashlight might cause the emitter to self-dedome.


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## thedoc007

Fireclaw18 said:


> Gives a slightly narrower and throwier beam, but is still a very floody light. Dedoming reduces lumens maybe 15% while increasing throw by probably around 75%.



Good information overall, but your numbers might be WAY off. 

*Fraz light - Stock XML2 (TIR optic)*
Sony VTC 50A 26650 (same results as regular ICR)
1002 @ turn on
992 @ 30 sec
Throw - 15,000 Lux

*Fraz light - De-domed XML2 (TIR optic)*
Sony VTC 50A 26650 (same results as regular ICR)
780 @ turn on
776 @ 30 sec
Throw - 11,000 Lux (no increase in throw due to TIR optic)

This is the only test I had seen previously...I don't know if it is representative of the average result.

Still, with that caveat, the results were very poor with de-dome (ignoring tint, which is subjective). Not only did lumens drop by more than twenty percent - the candela rating also went down quite significantly.


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## Fireclaw18

thedoc007 said:


> Good information overall, but your numbers might be WAY off.
> 
> *Fraz light - Stock XML2 (TIR optic)*
> Sony VTC 50A 26650 (same results as regular ICR)
> 1002 @ turn on
> 992 @ 30 sec
> Throw - 15,000 Lux
> 
> *Fraz light - De-domed XML2 (TIR optic)*
> Sony VTC 50A 26650 (same results as regular ICR)
> 780 @ turn on
> 776 @ 30 sec
> Throw - 11,000 Lux (no increase in throw due to TIR optic)
> 
> This is the only test I had seen previously...I don't know if it is representative of the average result.
> 
> Still, with that caveat, the results were very poor with de-dome (ignoring tint, which is subjective). Not only did lumens drop by more than twenty percent - the candela rating also went down quite significantly.



And there's something wrong with your test. Perhaps the dedoming wasn't done properly.

A properly done dedome on a Cree emitter dramatically increases lux REGARDLESS of what focusing method is used. Whether you use a TIR, an aspheric, or a conventional reflector a properly dedomed emitter will always produce higher lux than a domed emitter assuming the rest of the setup is otherwise the same. I've seen many tests and graphs on this put forth by multiple different modders and reviwers. I've also read an article describing exactly what dedoming does and why it works.

In my own collection, I have one light with domed XPL and Carclo 10507 optic modified by Mountain Electronics to accomodate the dome. This light is powered by a single 1200 mAh 18500 IMR cell and uses a direct drive FET driver that will pull as much power as the cell can supply. On a fresh cell it produces around 2500 lumens and 11,000 lux.

I have a similar light with triple dedomed XPL and unmodified Carclo 10507 optic. It runs on a bigger 18650 cell and pulls more amps. I figure output at turn-on on a fresh cell is around 3000 lumens. I measured lux on my lux meter at 25,000 lux. Impressive for a small triple.

I've also done measurements in single emitter lights where I tried different emitters both domed and dedomed in the same light. Sometimes I tried a domed emitter, then dedomed it and tried the same emitter. In all cases, a properly done dedome resulted in a massive increase in throw. There's a reason why DEFT flashlights only use dedomed emitters. It's the best way to get more throw.

Biggest downside of the dedome is color temperature gets approximately 1500K warmer. And tint often shifts towards an ugly green. Domed emitters produce far prettier tints.


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## thedoc007

Fireclaw18 said:


> And there's something wrong with your test. Perhaps the dedoming wasn't done properly.



Not my test...I thought I had included attribution, but I see I did not. JMPaul320 did the test...he has tested scores of lights, and knows what he is doing (he always does multiple tests, and averages results). As for the de-dome, I think it was done by Vinh. He has probably done thousands of de-domes, and again, I think he can be said to know how to do it properly. I did acknowledge there could have been other factors...but I refuse to just automatically assume they screwed it up.



Fireclaw18 said:


> A properly done dedome on a Cree emitter dramatically increases lux REGARDLESS of what focusing method is used. Whether you use a TIR, an aspheric, or a conventional reflector a properly dedomed emitter will always produce higher* lumens* than a domed emitter assuming the rest of the setup is otherwise the same.



Apparently not...it didn't increase the lux in this case. Also, I assume you mean lux, not lumens. Total effective output is decreased with de-dome, not increased.


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## ThirstyTurtle

Vinh has stated many times that he does not suggest de-doming with optics as it doesn't seem to do much of anything in the way of increased throw. I don't understand it, but I believe him.


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## Fireclaw18

Yes, typo on my part. I meant lux.

Dedome doesn't help much with a triple TIR optic because the actual reflective surface area is tiny. Yes, the dedome dramatically increases throw... but because the optic is so small you're still left with basically just a floody light. Nothing is going to turn a light with such a small optic into a thrower and nobody should buy a light with this kind of tiny optic expecting a thrower.


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## Kenjii

Fireclaw18 said:


> The star is a single custom direct copper Noctigon containing mounting points for all 12 of the emitters. The star is pretty hefty too weighing in at 3 oz (85g)



Hy,

that is not the weight of the star. 3oz is the rating/definition of the traces on the MCPCB. And in this case the traces are really "thick" for lower resistance.

Greetings 

Kenjii


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## Fireclaw18

Kenjii said:


> Hy,
> 
> that is not the weight of the star. 3oz is the rating/definition of the traces on the MCPCB. And in this case the traces are really "thick" for lower resistance.
> 
> Greetings
> 
> Kenjii



Thanks for the clarification.


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## tobrien

any ETA on this?


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## kj2

UI available: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0WEb-DpmrKXalRUVENNaW5QRTQ/view


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## kj2




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## Roger Sully

Standing by...


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## Ladd

tobrien said:


> any ETA on this?


 +1 Interesting Light


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## Fireclaw18

Richard at Mountain Electronics received his early sample and posted some first impressions on another flashlight forum. Here's a copy-paste of what he wrote:

"Well, I've had a few minutes to play with the light now, and here are a few of my initial impressions:



This thing is _tiny_ and _light._ I was actually surprised by how light and short it is. 
I am not exaggerating when I say that the machining, surface finish, and overall fit and finish are as good _or better_ than any Fenix or Nitecore light I've seen. Seriously impressive in this regard. 
You can tell that a lot of time was put into this light. There are a lot of parts in this one that were designed specifically for this light---from the solid copper tailcap, to the driver, to the Noctigon button boot. 
This is just my opinion, but the dedomed XP-G2 1D emitters in this one put out a pretty awesome and useful beam. The tint is also very good, especially for dedomed emitters. I took it outside and this thing is a beast! 
The driver has a _ton_ of different features. I'm just starting to get used to it now, but it seems pretty good. 
The button has a lit RGB LED array. It can be used as a constant light, as a beacon, _or it can be turned__off_ (unlike the MM15!!!). This is more useful than most, because it shows the current battery state. 
While this light has thermal management, it isn't set very conservative. The light can get pretty hot on turbo before it starts to ramp down. If you're holding the battery tube you'll be OK, but the head gets pretty uncomfortable. I think that most flashaholics prefer the management to not be too conservative, but a few of "the uninitiated" may think that it is getting pretty hot! 
Because it's a boost driver, there isn't infinite dimming, but there is a good range of modes. Here are the OTF lumens I measured (dedomed XP-G2)
*Moon:* 1.9 
*Low:* 107 
*Mid: *756 
*High:* 2901 
*Turbo: *6458
Of note, the Turbo output only dropped about 50 lumens after 1 minute. This is unusual and is obviously due to the boost driver. The output in all of the modes is remarkably consistent. 
 
 
Throw is visually very impressive for such a small multi-emitter light. Again, I think that the dedomed XP-G2 may be the one to get here, but I'll have to see one with the XP-Ls to compare against. I measured about 73kcd. That's pretty good for a light like this! 
Anyhow, I'm going to play with it for another day or so, take some pictures, then send it on."


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## easilyled

I'm still thinking that it would be nice to have mixed clusters. 

For example 2 triple-clusters of dedomed XP-G2s, a third triple-cluster of XP-Ls and a fourth cluster of Nichia 219Bs.

It would provide benefits from all the different types then. (Hi-CRI from the 219Bs, Good output from the XP-Ls and good throw from the dedomed XP-G2s.)


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## Romanko

A short review.


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## Bruno28

Sexy light!
Any idea of how many lumens with the 12 XP-L?


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## Dface

The world's first review Noctigon Meteor M43


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## easilyled

Dface said:


> The world's first review Noctigon Meteor M43



Which has already been linked two posts above yours - in a language I don't understand!


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## Romanko

easilyled said:


> Which has already been linked two posts above yours - in a language I don't understand!


This should be better.


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## easilyled

Romanko said:


> This should be better.



Thank you.


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## Roger Sully

Very nice. I hope these become available soon!


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## Romanko

Roger Sully said:


> Very nice. I hope these become available soon!


Here it is
http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-418650-meteor-m43-p-864.html
And the main question is where to find 200 $ :shakehead


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## chuckhov

Something has got to be wrong with the specs...



CW S4 2B = 4000lm Throw 20kcd

NW 219BT 92CRI = 6300lm Throw 70kcd

Among other specs, but you guys can read...

What's up with that?

Thanks,
-Chuck


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## kj2

Looks like specs are correct at this moment.


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## chuckhov

You're right!

Must have caught the webmaster changing them in the act.

Looks understandable now.

Thanks,
-Chuck


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## chuckhov

Choices, choices...

Hard to pick, but I 'think' I am leaning towards S4 2B, or [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]S3 3C.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Gotta love the tint of the 219, but sacrificing a lot of lumens there.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Of course this light has lumens to spare with any emitter, but I do want it to be BRIGHT, or I'll just carry something smaller.

Your thoughts?

Thanks,
-Chuck[/FONT]


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## kj2

Already have a TN36vn... hard to justify to get a M43.. Or not :naughty:


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## chuckhov

Well, I have an advantage over you - I don't have a TN36 - If you can call a deficiency like that an advantage:-( 

The XP-G2 1D option is only available in De-dome? - I generally like a 1D dome-on for CW as it is on or below the BBL, so 'hopefully' not as much Green as something like a 1B.

Come-on kj2, you know that you need both! 

Thanks,
-Chuck


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## kj2

chuckhov said:


> Well, I have an advantage over you - I don't have a TN36 - If you can call a deficiency like that an advantage:-(
> The XP-G2 1D option is only available in De-dome? - I generally like a 1D dome-on for CW as it is on or below the BBL, so 'hopefully' not as much Green as something like a 1B.
> Come-on kj2, you know that you need both!
> Thanks,
> -Chuck


Am looking at the NW S2 1D D-D or the NW XP-L D-D. Like the color temp of the S4 2B, but specs are so close to my TN36vn. 
As you said, choices,choices,choices


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## kj2

From the manual: ... _batteries are inserted properly and they are not absolute flat tops_. _It is desired to use the cell with the highest voltage on a 7.5A load. 

_I use Eagletac batteries that have a max of 5-6A. Do have Samsung IMR- batteries, but those are flat-tops. So, if I would buy this light, I also have to buy extra batteries. 
Sounds I'll let this one pass.


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## Roger Sully

Romanko said:


> Here it is
> http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-418650-meteor-m43-p-864.html
> And the main question is where to find 200 $ :shakehead



Awesome! When I looked last night they were "sold out".


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## chuckhov

In that case, "Sold Out" was just their way of saying that they didn't have any to sell - Yet.

Thanks,
-Chuck


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## Roger Sully

I just ordered the S3 3C in the Stone White. This is going to be a long 2 weeks.


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## chuckhov

Hey! - That's No Fair, Roger... That's the one I wanted!

Just kidding... Make mine Dark Grey, but no... I haven't ordered yet.

I'm waiting for Richard at Mountain Electronics to start carrying them.

Thanks,
-Chuck


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## chuckhov

kj2 said:


> I use Eagletac batteries that have a max of 5-6A. Do have Samsung IMR- batteries, but those are flat-tops. So, if I would buy this light, I also have to buy extra batteries.




Bummer!

Not knowing what I am doing, I devised a plan to buy ALL of my Unprotected in Button Top, as I think that they will work in 'most' cases.

Of course Protected Button Tops can be too damn long for many lights (been there and done that), but at less than 67mm, I don't see the Unprotected buttons as having a problem with length. - Yet.

Of course - Not knowing what I am doing, there may come the day...:-(

Cheer up kj2; Look at the money you are saving, and you gotta know that 6 months from now there will be a New, 'Greatest Thing', just waiting for You!

EDIT: But of course, the Real Reason why I buy the Button Tops, is because they are easier for an old man to tell which end is which


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## kj2

chuckhov said:


> Of course Protected Button Tops can be too damn long for many lights (been there and done that), but at less than 67mm, I don't see the Unprotected buttons as having a problem with length. - Yet.
> 
> Of course - Not knowing what I am doing, there may come the day...:-(
> 
> Chere up kj2; Look at the money you are saving, and you gotta know that 6 months from now there will be a New, 'Greatest Thing', just waiting for You!


Will shoot a message to check what the max length is for the batteries.
And for the coming 4-5 months, I won't be needing a flashlight that much 
But still keeping an eye on this light.


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## dc38

Roger Sully said:


> I just ordered the S3 3C in the Stone White. This is going to be a long 2 weeks.



Went with the 1d ddome...70k lux with "only" 6000 lumens...hopefully not too shabby.

Cannot wait to compare it to my mm15vn in raw output


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## chuckhov

kj2;4642342
And for the coming 4-5 months said:


> Understood - The farther North you are in the Summer of the Northern Hemisphere, the longer the days are going to be.
> 
> Here in Florida @28°N, there is sufficient darkness to keep me Broke year round - Really not much 'need' for anything right now, what with the Daylight Savings Time and the lengthening days, but you know how it is. - The Dark is Still Out There, and New lights are coming out left and right
> 
> Thanks,
> -Chuck


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## kj2

Confirmation from Hank: max battery length 69.9mm but my Eagletac's won't fully power it.


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## chuckhov

69.9mm is Very liberal. - My Eagletac M3C4 has a max of 68.5mm, which leaves most Protected Button Tops out. - My light also Must use button tops.

So, this pissed me off... No way am I gonna give Eagletac that kind of Big money for their batteries, since they are the ones that caused the problem in the first place.

So - Screw you Eagletac! - I run my Eagletac on Unprotected Panny NCR18650b at less than 1/2 the cost. 

Sure, you gotta be careful with unprotected ICR, especially in series, but I am very careful.

But, even though I'm careful, I will probably be switching to a pair of LG 18650MH1 Protected 3200mAh, because they are 'only' 68.7mm, and I think that I can squeeze them in - Again: Less than 1/2 the cost of the Eagletacs.

Of course these are NOT High-Drain batteries, and so they have no reason being in this thread. - Sorry bout that...But thanks for letting me Rant

It's really not easy being me...
-Chuck


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## FroggyTaco

So the power draw of this light is 7.5A x 4= 30A of total current draw?

That would imply 111 watts(30a x 3.7v) of power draw. That seems excessive even for a 12 LED light.

I could see that being a 60-75 watt torch but not 110+ watts.


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## Chicken Drumstick

kj2 said:


> From the manual: ... _batteries are inserted properly and they are not absolute flat tops_. _It is desired to use the cell with the highest voltage on a 7.5A load.
> 
> _I use Eagletac batteries that have a max of 5-6A. Do have Samsung IMR- batteries, but those are flat-tops. So, if I would buy this light, I also have to buy extra batteries.
> Sounds I'll let this one pass.


You'd not buy a light at this price point on the sole basis you'd have to splash out only a tiny amount more for a set of batteries for it??

Sorry, but I find that logic quite hard to fathom.


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## ThirstyTurtle

Chicken Drumstick said:


> You'd not buy a light at this price point on the sole basis you'd have to splash out only a tiny amount more for a set of batteries for it??
> 
> Sorry, but I find that logic quite hard to fathom.


I love an "excuse" to buy more cells


----------



## kj2

Chicken Drumstick said:


> You'd not buy a light at this price point on the sole basis you'd have to splash out only a tiny amount more for a set of batteries for it??
> 
> Sorry, but I find that logic quite hard to fathom.



Already having 8 Eagletac batts, 4 Samsung IMR's, 1 Olight and Cytac 18650 battery. Of course, when spending that kinda money on a light, the extra batteries are peanuts.. But.. Don't won't to buy batteries just for that one light. And already have a TN36vn, so already have a light with that kinda output. UI on the M43, on the other hand, is much more advance.


----------



## ChibiM

kj2 said:


> Already having 8 Eagletac batts, 4 Samsung IMR's, 1 Olight and Cytac 18650 battery. Of course, when spending that kinda money on a light, the extra batteries are peanuts.. But.. Don't won't to buy batteries just for that one light. And already have a TN36vn, so already have a light with that kinda output. UI on the M43, on the other hand, is much more advance.


Just shoot Arjan at nkon an email, and he will be able to help you out on some good batteries for cheap!


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

kj2 said:


> Already having 8 Eagletac batts, 4 Samsung IMR's, 1 Olight and Cytac 18650 battery. Of course, when spending that kinda money on a light, the extra batteries are peanuts.. But.. Don't won't to buy batteries just for that one light. And already have a TN36vn, so already have a light with that kinda output. UI on the M43, on the other hand, is much more advance.


It's not as if you can't use some new batteries in other lights should you want. You are hardly tied to just using them in the M43.

Sorry, still struggle with the logic. Batteries are cheap and tiny. Buying them is mostly no bother and certainly no reason not to buy an awesome torch.


----------



## kj2

ChibiM said:


> Just shoot Arjan at nkon an email, and he will be able to help you out on some good batteries for cheap!


I know him. Deal often with him 



Chicken Drumstick said:


> It's not as if you can't use some new batteries in other lights should you want. You are hardly tied to just using them in the M43.
> 
> Sorry, still struggle with the logic. Batteries are cheap and tiny. Buying them is mostly no bother and certainly no reason not to buy an awesome torch.


YMMV. I normally don't use unprotected in my lights, although I could, but I won't.


----------



## markr6

Nichia 219 model in my cart...$188.68

Now for my usual "I already have too many lights and don't even use them very often" line.

But about $200 with batteries?!?!? I don't think I can pull the trigger on this one. And even though I'm a Nichia lover, I think I may actually go with the XP-L. Hard to decide without beamshots. NW S3 3C  sounds nice too, but don't see an option to select that one.


----------



## ThirstyTurtle

markr6 said:


> Nichia 219 model in my cart...$188.68
> 
> Now for my usual "I already have too many lights and don't even use them very often" line.
> 
> But about $200 with batteries?!?!? I don't think I can pull the trigger on this one. And even though I'm a Nichia lover, I think I may actually go with the XP-L. Hard to decide without beamshots. NW S3 3C  sounds nice too, but don't see an option to select that one.


I used to think I'd never spend $200 on a light. Then I had a TK75vn, a TK61vn, and a few other $200+ lights and most recently spent $300 on my modded Prometheus Alpha. 

This light, IMO, is a BARGAIN at under $200. And you can't include batteries in the cost calculation in my opinion.


----------



## dc38

markr6 said:


> Nichia 219 model in my cart...$188.68
> 
> Now for my usual "I already have too many lights and don't even use them very often" line.
> 
> But about $200 with batteries?!?!? I don't think I can pull the trigger on this one. And even though I'm a Nichia lover, I think I may actually go with the XP-L. Hard to decide without beamshots. NW S3 3C  sounds nice too, but don't see an option to select that one.



Because of the CRI, the nichias may appear brighter than theyre rated in an outdoor environment. Many cooler tints wash out the natural colors of trees etc.; the difference in brightness becomes more readily apparent in a white wall or indoor enviro, where all the light is contained in a space.


----------



## markr6

dc38 said:


> Because of the CRI, the nichias may appear brighter than theyre rated in an outdoor environment. Many cooler tints wash out the natural colors of trees etc.; the difference in brightness becomes more readily apparent in a white wall or indoor enviro, where all the light is contained in a space.



I contemplated buying a MX25L3C Nichia from Selfbuilt recently, but I waited too long. This would definitely make up for it!!

Hey, didn't _you_ buy that one?


----------



## ThirstyTurtle

dc38 said:


> Because of the CRI, the nichias may appear brighter than theyre rated in an outdoor environment. Many cooler tints wash out the natural colors of trees etc.; the difference in brightness becomes more readily apparent in a white wall or indoor enviro, where all the light is contained in a space.


Not sure this is accurate. Cooler emitters make more OTF lumens than their warmer counterparts. 

I hate cool emitters and love neutral/warm emitters but cooler emitters are brighter IMO.


----------



## thedoc007

ThirstyTurtle said:


> Not sure this is accurate. Cooler emitters make more OTF lumens than their warmer counterparts.
> 
> I hate cool emitters and love neutral/warm emitters but cooler emitters are brighter IMO.



You are correct...cooler emitters appear brighter (to most people) even at the SAME actual output. Given that Nichia emitters are also inefficient in comparison to most other high-power LEDs, and there is no way it will appear brighter. 

That said, it will still be plenty bright...at multiple thousands of lumens no matter which LEDs you choose, it seems sensible to buy based on the tint you like. Just know that in doing so, your light WILL be dimmer than the same light with CW.

I also find exactly the opposite, regarding indoor vs. outdoor (regarding dc38's comments). If you are indoors, you don't need as much light, since the light is mostly contained. If you have a huge open area, you need a LOT more lumens , since a great portion of output is wasted...sent out the front, but never bounced off anything and converted into visible lux.


----------



## markr6

After getting a hold of some good neutral whites (almost as bright as CW), I'm a bit less obsessed with Nichia 219s. But in a light with multiple emitters, it levels the scale for me. I just don't have any yet!

Now that I had some time to cool off, I'll have to pass on this. Just can't spend that type of dough. Plus I already have 2 more lights on the way. I'll have to wait for some more reviews and drool over them


----------



## dc38

markr6 said:


> I contemplated buying a MX25L3C Nichia from Selfbuilt recently, but I waited too long. This would definitely make up for it!!
> 
> Hey, didn't _you_ buy that one?



I most definitely did 

I tested it against the tm11 I have. Indoors, the tm11 noticably trounced it in raw output and harsh intensity. Outside however, I personally favored the ET with nichias. While the tm11 was putting out more light, I found myself seeing more with the ET. I was in a more woody area, so maybe that had something to do with the amount of light the "pigments" reflected? The cooler tm11 didnt do so well with distinguishing individual trees from the rest of the woods. The Nichias seemed to help with depth perception as well. In a sheer output standpoint, nichias will usually be outperformed by the cree x-series, but in general usage, I personally find my nichia lights more appreciable.


----------



## dc38

thedoc007 said:


> You are correct...cooler emitters appear brighter (to most people) even at the SAME actual output. Given that Nichia emitters are also inefficient in comparison to most other high-power LEDs, and there is no way it will appear brighter.
> 
> That said, it will still be plenty bright...at multiple thousands of lumens no matter which LEDs you choose, it seems sensible to buy based on the tint you like. Just know that in doing so, your light WILL be dimmer than the same light with CW.
> 
> I also find exactly the opposite, regarding indoor vs. outdoor (regarding dc38's comments). If you are indoors, you don't need as much light, since the light is mostly contained. If you have a huge open area, you need a LOT more lumens , since a great portion of output is wasted...sent out the front, but never bounced off anything and converted into visible lux.



I believe that an led with lower CRI (smaller spectrum?) may have its light absorbed by other pigments, and will reflect whatever color is the closest to the pigment...thus a higher CRI would allow a wider spectrum of light to be reflected back...probably a misconception on my part.


----------



## dc38

Did anybody else notice this on their page when ordering? "Orders will be shipped in 3~7 working days due to the assembling time"


----------



## kj2

dc38 said:


> Did anybody else notice this on their page when ordering? "Orders will be shipped in 3~7 working days due to the assembling time"



Saw it today, wasn't mentioned yesterday.


----------



## kj2

Hee.. Don't see the nw S3 3C option, anymore.


----------



## markr6

kj2 said:


> Hee.. Don't see the nw S3 3C option, anymore.



I saw this mentioned on BLF somewhere...sold out quick but will restock. I guess they just removed that checkbox until then.

I was hoping ZL would bring the SC6330 back, but...


----------



## kj2

markr6 said:


> I saw this mentioned on BLF somewhere...sold out quick but will restock. I guess they just removed that checkbox until then.
> 
> I was hoping ZL would bring the SC6330 back, but...



Still hoping ZL will.. But doesn't look like it. If, and if, I would order one, I might go with the S3 led. Dropped the dedomed idea. Don't 'need' throw


----------



## gktii

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but i spoke with Vinh yesterday, and he's working on getting a shipment of these as well and doing his V54 magic to them. I had one in my cart yesterday, but held off to see what Vinh's planning to do. But i'm certainly intrigued by this light...


----------



## markr6

kj2 said:


> Still hoping ZL will.. But doesn't look like it. If, and if, I would order one, I might go with the S3 led. Dropped the dedomed idea. Don't 'need' throw



Yeah I'm satisfied with my stock S200C2 as a thrower. I really only have a need for one thrower; a "special application" type light. Everything else I want to be a mix or a stupid-floody wall of light.

NW S3 3C | 6600lm | 32,000cd | 4885K > seems like a nice compromise on everything.




gktii said:


> Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but i spoke with Vinh yesterday, and he's working on getting a shipment of these as well and doing his V54 magic to them. I had one in my cart yesterday, but held off to see what Vinh's planning to do. But i'm certainly intrigued by this light...



I DEFINITELY don't have the $$$ for a vn model! But you know it's going to be a good one!


----------



## kj2

Wait.. What!? Possible Vn-version.. Damn..  wonder what he can do with it.


----------



## Amelia

markr6 said:


> Yeah I'm satisfied with my stock S200C2 as a thrower. I really only have a need for one thrower; a "special application" type light. Everything else I want to be a mix or a stupid-floody wall of light.
> 
> NW S3 3C | 6600lm | 32,000cd | 4885K > seems like a nice compromise on everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I DEFINITELY don't have the $$$ for a vn model! But you know it's going to be a good one!



That's how I feel about it as well (LOVE my S200C2, by the way!). This didn't stop me from recently buying a Thrunite TN32 (Neutral White) though - WOW does that thing throw! 

It's a really nice general purpose light too, but a bit large.


----------



## DBCstm

There's a lot of pics here with beamshots at the end ...Meteor M43

Ordered mine with XP-G2 S3 2B emitters to match the flash units on my camera's in Kelvin temperature.


----------



## markr6

That UI flowchart in the manual!!! Intimidating! I'm going to act like I didn't see that  Buy first, ask questions later.


----------



## gktii

kj2 said:


> Wait.. What!? Possible Vn-version.. Damn..  wonder what he can do with it.



my exact thought..haha.. i'm certainly gonna wait and find out...


----------



## dc38

Anybody get a shipping notice yet? Lol


----------



## Rod911

dc38 said:


> Anybody get a shipping notice yet? Lol



Nope. Got the Nichia version.

I don't have enough high drain cells, which this thing is recommended to have, so I got myself 10 of LGINR18650HG2 cells.


----------



## ThirstyTurtle

Any beamshots of this thing anywhere? I guess no one has one yet so probably not...


----------



## markr6

ThirstyTurtle said:


> Any beamshots of this thing anywhere? I guess no one has one yet so probably not...



Nice beamshots here...



DBCstm said:


> There's a lot of pics here with beamshots at the end ...Meteor M43
> 
> Ordered mine with XP-G2 S3 2B emitters to match the flash units on my camera's in Kelvin temperature.



That Nichia 219 just looks so damn good. I want one bad, but there's just no way it's going to happen at the moment. I may do a firesale on some unused lights though, so we'll see


----------



## ThirstyTurtle

Beamshots where?


----------



## chuckhov

Click where it says "Meteor 43" in the post right above yours.

-Chuck


----------



## markr6

Time for the Zebralight SC6330s to start coming out of the woodwork into the for sale section??


----------



## Ray-o-light

Yeah, but the SC6330's won't be going for more than the original price now!!!


----------



## ThirstyTurtle

The UI on this thing, although complicated, is very customizable and has some modes I've always yearned for like "bike" mode; a nice medium beacon mode.

I'm of the opinion that any UI can be learned so once you get the hang of this it'd be awesome! 

I'm not in the market for a monster flooded right now (due to funding) but I've had AND LOVED the MM15vn and the TN36vn so I'm no stranger to the monster flooders. 

Once someone has their's in hand I'd LOVE a pic of the beam angle. A simple shot of the light laid on a table will show the angle I'm so interested in!


----------



## plata0190

Obviously I'm interested too for some beam shots to know how floody it is. Seeing the beamshots that are already out on fonarevka.ru forum the M43 is close floody as niwalker mm15 (at least the nichia version)


----------



## Fireclaw18

plata0190 said:


> Obviously I'm interested too for some beam shots to know how floody it is. Seeing the beamshots that are already out on fonarevka.ru forum the M43 is close floody as niwalker mm15 (at least the nichia version)



If you've ever owned a compact triple that uses a Carclo 10507 optic, the beam pattern should be identical (assuming same emitter). The only difference should be that the Meteor is much brighter.

The meteor actually uses 4 stock 20mm 10507 Carclo optics. This means you can customize the beam by trying different Carclo optics. One optic itself costs less than $2, so you can buy the 4 the light requires for less than $10. Mountain Electronics sells the optics.

With such a tiny reflecting surface, none of the optics will give you a narrow beam. All choices will be floody.


----------



## ThirstyTurtle

Fireclaw18 said:


> If you've ever owned a compact triple that uses a Carclo 10507 optic, the beam pattern should be identical (assuming same emitter). The only difference should be that the Meteor is much brighter.
> 
> The meteor actually uses 4 stock 20mm 10507 Carclo optics. This means you can customize the beam by trying different Carclo optics. One optic itself costs less than $2, so you can buy the 4 the light requires for less than $10. Mountain Electronics sells the optics.
> 
> With such a tiny reflecting surface, none of the optics will give you a narrow beam. All choices will be floody.


I realize they're all floody to be sure but any idea of the width of the spill? 

So the M43 uses the Carclo 10507? I can research that...


----------



## dc38

I dunno about the rest of us, but my order is soft shipping tomorrow, and will actually ship next monday.


----------



## Fireclaw18

I need to get one of these with 12x of Cree's new high intensity XPL inside. With neutral tint.


----------



## dc38

"Orders will be shipped in 7~10 working days due to the assembling time" - just a heads up


----------



## Roger Sully

I'm assuming it doesn't like my batteries :-(
I can cycle thru ow medium and high but turbo lasts for about 1/2 second and it shuts off. I'm using 4 Olight 3400mAh batteries...


----------



## kj2

Roger Sully said:


> I'm assuming it doesn't like my batteries :-(
> I can cycle thru ow medium and high but turbo lasts for about 1/2 second and it shuts off. I'm using 4 Olight 3400mAh batteries...



Batteries can't provide enough Amp. I use mostly Eagletac which can do 5-6A. That's the reason I didn't bought it. Then I would need 4 extra batts, only to use in this light.


----------



## CUL8R

Roger Sully said:


> I'm assuming it doesn't like my batteries :-(
> I can cycle thru ow medium and high but turbo lasts for about 1/2 second and it shuts off. I'm using 4 Olight 3400mAh batteries...



Yes. All the documentation and reviews on this light mention the need for high drain button top batteries .


----------



## markr6

For something at this price, I think 4 cells that can do 10A+ (about $25 total) is reasonable.


----------



## CUL8R

kj2 said:


> Batteries can't provide enough Amp. I use mostly Eagletac which can do 5-6A. That's the reason I didn't bought it. Then I would need 4 extra batts, only to use in this light.



You are really limiting yourself and not getting a chance to use some of the best lights out there today. Four top quality high drains are approx. $32 and could be utilized in any custom or other light requiring high drain batteries for max output.


----------



## kj2

CUL8R said:


> You are really limiting yourself and not getting a chance to use some of the best lights out there today. Four top quality high drains are approx. $32 and could be utilized in any custom or other light requiring high drain batteries for max output.



Think my 8x Eagletac and 4x Samsung IMR's got me covered. Have 14x 18650s in total. Have to use all time by time, can't let li-ion sit still and do nothing. Plus, as you could've read, I already have a Thrunite TN36vn. Both these lights have about the same output.


----------



## thedoc007

kj2 said:


> Think my 8x Eagletac and 4x Samsung IMR's got me covered. Have 14x 18650s in total. Have to use all time by time, can't let li-ion sit still and do nothing. Plus, as you could've read, I already have a Thrunite TN36vn. Both these lights have about the same output.



Yeah, I was hoping for more. I know the M43 is tiny...but it isn't any brighter than the MM15vn, which is over a year old now, or the TN36vn. And before someone objects, I think they ARE comparable, since the M43 is built to order...it isn't a standard stock unit, and is designed for flashaholics just like the modded lights. If I didn't have either of those, it would certainly be a contender, but it doesn't really offer anything fundamentally different or better than those older lights. It certainly is better built, and for the price the performance is excellent...but it isn't a compelling upgrade if you have something in the same league already.


----------



## plata0190

Here a beamshot comparison


----------



## dc38

Roger Sully said:


> I'm assuming it doesn't like my batteries :-(
> I can cycle thru ow medium and high but turbo lasts for about 1/2 second and it shuts off. I'm using 4 Olight 3400mAh batteries...


When'd you get yours? I ordered mine about 20 minutes after your order post lol...mine is coming monday. Think they did these in led specific batches?

Im also in Jersey, just curious


----------



## Ray-o-light

Ordered mine on the 23rd. Did they email you a shipping notice? I haven't received a shipping notice, tracking number, or anything yet! I'm in the dark on this one. Could use a good light!


----------



## Roger Sully

dc38 said:


> When'd you get yours? I ordered mine about 20 minutes after your order post lol...mine is coming monday. Think they did these in led specific batches?
> 
> Im also in Jersey, just curious



i received mine yesterday. I ordered on 4/22 and got an order confirmation right after I placed the order. The shipping confirmation came on 4/30. I replied to that email on 5/4 and Hank replied with tracking info. It was supposed to arrive on Friday but I guess there was a delay somewhere. 

The high setting is still pretty bright but now I have to wait until my ET batteries arrive on Wednesday to get the full effect :mecry:


----------



## Ray-o-light

Thanks for the info Roger! Hopefully I'll be in the next batch they send out. Anyways, I hope you enjoy that light on turbo when you get your new batts. Cheers!


----------



## CUL8R

kj2 said:


> Think my 8x Eagletac and 4x Samsung IMR's got me covered. Have 14x 18650s in total. Have to use all time by time, can't let li-ion sit still and do nothing. Plus, as you could've read, I already have a Thrunite TN36vn. Both these lights have about the same output.





thedoc007 said:


> Yeah, I was hoping for more. I know the M43 is tiny...but it isn't any brighter than the MM15vn, which is over a year old now, or the TN36vn. And before someone objects, I think they ARE comparable, since the M43 is built to order...it isn't a standard stock unit, and is designed for flashaholics just like the modded lights. If I didn't have either of those, it would certainly be a contender, but it doesn't really offer anything fundamentally different or better than those older lights. It certainly is better built, and for the price the performance is excellent...but it isn't a compelling upgrade if you have something in the same league already.



Fellas, I think we're going to have to respectfully agree to disagree on whether or not this light is a significant step forward. I think it is and here is why (and this leaves out many factors such as smaller size, greater UI programmability, etc). I also have an MM15vn with 6720 lumens @30sec and 27500 lux, and TN36vn with 8025 lumens @ 30 sec and 31000 lux. Both are really wonderful lights with monster flood. But, what they don't have is much throw. So this a really good reason for me at least to obtain the xp-g2 s2 1d (dedomed) version of the M43. It has 6300 lumens, so is 6.2% down on the MM15vn ( not noticeable), but almost doubles the MM15s throw at 70000 lux. Using ANSI standards (I know, I know, not really all that useful except as a common measure of all 3 lights throw performance). So MM15vn = 331 meters, TN36vn = 352 meters, and M43 = 529 meters. Can you really see something at those distances with that small amount of light? No, but the figures give a relative idea of how far each light will be useful out to. And I have to say the xp-g2 s2 1d M43 has the best of the lumen/lux combination of the three. At least as far as how my two vn's are configured. I asked for both with domes on for max lumens, but now I would like a light with great lumen output, but also reasonable distance characteristics. I think this version of the M43 should do that extremely well. So at least for how my current two "big guns" are set up, this is a pretty big step forward. Lumens and Lux.


----------



## thedoc007

CUL8R said:


> Fellas, I think we're going to have to respectfully agree to disagree on whether or not this light is a significant step forward.



Yep, that seems fair enough. I don't much like hybrids, especially with big lights. I like floody lights, and I like throwers, but I have no use for lights like the TK75, or the M43, which are middling at both. But that is merely a preference...if you like a mix, I have no doubt that the M43 will work well for you. And as I said, if I didn't already have a monster flooder, the M43 would be very tempting. It is quite a lot of light for the money - just not right for me, given what I already have.


----------



## dc38

Roger Sully said:


> i received mine yesterday. I ordered on 4/22 and got an order confirmation right after I placed the order. The shipping confirmation came on 4/30. I replied to that email on 5/4 and Hank replied with tracking info. It was supposed to arrive on Friday but I guess there was a delay somewhere.
> 
> The high setting is still pretty bright but now I have to wait until my ET batteries arrive on Wednesday to get the full effect :mecry:



Yeah...I had to follow up with a correspondence to get a tracking as well lol...only I did so 2 days after you, and it leads me to believe they have an agent or distribution hub here in the states


----------



## Glenn7

CUL8R said:


> Fellas, I think we're going to have to respectfully agree to disagree on whether or not this light is a significant step forward. I think it is and here is why (and this leaves out many factors such as smaller size, greater UI programmability, etc). I also have an MM15vn with 6720 lumens @30sec and 27500 lux, and TN36vn with 8025 lumens @ 30 sec and 31000 lux. Both are really wonderful lights with monster flood. But, what they don't have is much throw. So this a really good reason for me at least to obtain the xp-g2 s2 1d (dedomed) version of the M43. It has 6300 lumens, so is 6.2% down on the MM15vn ( not noticeable), but almost doubles the MM15s throw at 70000 lux. Using ANSI standards (I know, I know, not really all that useful except as a common measure of all 3 lights throw performance). So MM15vn = 331 meters, TN36vn = 352 meters, and M43 = 529 meters. Can you really see something at those distances with that small amount of light? No, but the figures give a relative idea of how far each light will be useful out to. And I have to say the xp-g2 s2 1d M43 has the best of the lumen/lux combination of the three. At least as far as how my two vn's are configured. I asked for both with domes on for max lumens, but now I would like a light with great lumen output, but also reasonable distance characteristics. I think this version of the M43 should do that extremely well. So at least for how my current two "big guns" are set up, this is a pretty big step forward. Lumens and Lux.


Gotta totally agree with your post - best of both worlds - and that's why I'm getting one (shipping notice 7 days ago) going the DD'd XP-G S2 as they are neutral in tint and throw the best - except for head lamps, flood lights always disappoint me because I'm left wanting more as the flooded light (especially around urban lights) just dissipates into the night no matter how many lumens you pump out - I always seem to sell my flooders in the end.


----------



## Glenn7

http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/taschenlampen/41503-review-m43-meteor-4.html


----------



## tobrien

just thought of this, but if I got a de-domed option, wouldn't there be a big tint mix due to the inherent de-doming tint shift? I wouldn't want a ton of mixed tones


----------



## Glenn7

Only if you have it on moon light and look down the barrel would you maybe notice any tint shift to the eye. But in reality You would only see the overall one tint as it hits the target.


----------



## carl

Does anyone know how many grams the light weighs without batteries? Thank you.


----------



## dc38

carl said:


> Does anyone know how many grams the light weighs without batteries? Thank you.



From the site, looks like 366g


----------



## dc38

tobrien said:


> just thought of this, but if I got a de-domed option, wouldn't there be a big tint mix due to the inherent de-doming tint shift? I wouldn't want a ton of mixed tones



From what I can see, the tint is pretty uniform OTF from the limited bursts Ive run...cannot wait for my dedicated batteries to run this beast lol


----------



## mhanlen

When testing the light for my review the beam looks pretty uniform in tint, even close up. There's no perceptible tint variation during any normal use. This dedomed light was sent around to several reviewers and no one complained about it.


----------



## carl

dc38 said:


> From the site, looks like 366g



Isn't that the shipping weight with box + holster, etc.? 

I was hoping someone could weigh their empty light without anything else included - no batteries, no shipping box, no holster, no extra o-rings, etc.. Thank you.

I'm hoping the light weighs no more than 1 pound with four batteries. More than 1 pound and its getting too heavy for regular use.


----------



## carl

A few questions:

1) The flashlight head's positive battery contacts of all 4 batteries are one gold contact for all batteries. Doesn't this cause problems for batteries with slightly different voltages and discharge currents?

2) What is the parasitic drain for this light?

3) Are the individual LEDs easily replaceable? With 12 LEDs, one may go bad and it would be nice to know it can be easily replaced.

4) Is the white-colored body HAIII? Is the white coat as thick and protective as the grey coat?


----------



## Fireclaw18

carl said:


> A few questions:
> 
> 1) The flashlight head's positive battery contacts of all 4 batteries are one gold contact for all batteries. Doesn't this cause problems for batteries with slightly different voltages and discharge currents?
> 
> 2) What is the parasitic drain for this light?
> 
> 3) Are the individual LEDs easily replaceable? With 12 LEDs, one may go bad and it would be nice to know it can be easily replaced.
> 
> 4) Is the white-colored body HAIII? Is the white coat as thick and protective as the grey coat?



From what I've read:
1) Most multi-18650 flashlights have the cells in parallel just like this light. It is VERY important to use the same type and brand of cell in all 4 slots all at the same charge level. Do NOT mix and match cells of different charge levels or type. Doing is is extremely dangerous and could result in a battery explosion. There's only one multi-18650 light ever built that's completely safe to run on different cells with different charge levels: the Zebralight S6330 (in that light all 3 cells are basically on separate circuits).

3) the individual LEDs are all mounted in a gigantic direct copper Noctigon. If you can get it out you should be able to reflow all 12 LEDS. The bezel and lens aren't glued on, but removing the optics and surround could be difficult as one leg of each optic is glued down. Unknown at this point whether drilling out that leg on one of the optics will be necessary (and if so no big deal.. the Carclo 10507 optic is very common and costs just $2)

4) Someone who received the white body model confirmed it does indeed appear to be HAIII. It's not actually white. Instead its a very light natural color anodize.


----------



## Giocomo

Fireclaw18 said:


> From what I've read:
> 1) Most multi-18650 flashlights have the cells in parallel just like this light.



All Acebeam flashlight have the cells in series connection even if the appear to be in parallel, TN36 also has the cells in series. Niteye are 2 in series 2 in parallel etc. Fenix flashlight have 
all cells in series. BTU Shocker all cells in series, Niwalker MM15 has all cells in series even if they are inserted in a parallel fashion (Selfbuilt's review can be read about this)
Most flashlight do not have cells in parallel.
While flashlights using 4 cells in series will not work unless you have 4 cells inserted, if all cells are in parallel, 1 2 or 3 cells can power up the light, 4 cells is not needed in parallel full 
configuration.
Cell will autobalance in a parallel setup eventually having the same voltage after very little while, basically always charge each other, unlike a series setup where voltage differences can 
cause reverse charging if charge voltage is very different. Those are the reasons why all cells have to be the same model and age. The parallel setup is preferred compared to series for safety.


----------



## Roger Sully

:welcome:


----------



## carl

Fireclaw - thank you for the info! 

The light colored HAIII is very unusual - looks good. Hope its just as thick as the darker HAIII.

BTW, how would we get access to the glued optic leg to drill it out? The previous video showed the optic cover is set in-place and can't be pried up with an exacto blade. Maybe we can request that our light not be glued? Or request a disassembly-friendly version of the light?


----------



## Fireclaw18

I suppose if you didn't mind destroying the optic you could just drill a whole in the center of the optic. With that hole you could then insert the tip of a needle-nose pliers and lever it up, hopefully breaking the glue.

If that doesn't work you could drill it out from the front. Remove the lens, locate the glued leg, press the drill onto the top of the optic above that leg, and start drilling.

A better option would probably be to ask Hank to make you one without the glued legs.


----------



## carl

Fireclaw,
I suppose that is one way to get the job done, especially since if someone is replacing the LEDs, he might as well replace the optics that go with the new LEDs.

Just found the bare weight of the M43 (without batteries) listed on BLF by forum member RMM:

12.9 oz; 366 grams - which makes this light heavier than the MM15. But as RMM noted, this is probably due to the heavier copper heatsinks/plates. All in all, the M43 should weigh 19 ounces with 4 batteries inside.


----------



## dc38

carl said:


> 12.9 oz; 366 grams - which makes this light heavier than the MM15. But as RMM noted, this is probably due to the heavier copper heatsinks/plates. All in all, the M43 should weigh 19 ounces with 4 batteries inside.



That's what I told you the first time...this is a heavy light for its size.


----------



## Giocomo

For the same volume copper has a mass which is 3x times more than aluminum, so any aluminum part that is replaced by copper will be 3 times heavier.


----------



## Giocomo

Roger Sully said:


> :welcome:


Thanks!


----------



## carl

There are areas that can be improved to make it lighter (just some ideas): 

1) The battery carrier's four scalloped areas can be machined/trimmed in the 'middle section' since only the tops and bottoms of the scallops are needed to hold the batteries in place. 

2) I suspect the copper endplate of the battery carrier can also be thinned and trimmed since there is more than enough copper material to conduct current - unless the endplate is also acting as a heatsink.


----------



## Glenn7

2 left.


----------



## Giocomo

carl said:


> There are areas that can improved to make it lighter (just some ideas):
> 
> 2) I suspect the copper endplate of the battery carrier can also be thinned and trimmed since there is more than enough copper material to conduct current - unless the endplate is also acting as a heatsink.



The input current is up 30A for down to 3.7V while boosting 8A at 10V (basically 2A per LED), there is never enough material for such amperage at such low voltage. The end copper plate is absolutely the best feature could be used, not some traces on a FR4 board, besides the low voltage basically ask for low resistance conductors, unlike the most flashlights which work in series and with lower current dues to high voltage.


----------



## Giocomo

carl said:


> A few questions:
> 
> 
> 2) What is the parasitic drain for this light?



21uA, no other feature turned on in OFF.


----------



## carl

Ok, so this measurement was with the illuminated power button feature turned off. 21 microAmps is pretty low. How did you measure it?

Thank you for measuring it for the rest of us!


----------



## Giocomo

carl said:


> Ok, so this measurement was with the illuminated power button feature turned off. 21 microAmps is pretty low. How did you measure it?
> 
> Thank you for measuring it for the rest of us!



Yes, no illumination, (beacon, or fixed color). Take the head, connect a cell to the positive ring using the Fluke 289 in series with the cell in uA mode, negative lead on the battery negative, positive lead on the Ground of the driver.
21uA is extremely low.


----------



## carl

On more question: In their own opinion, does anyone think its too heavy and bulky for daily use around the house? 

I just wanted other's thoughts on this since I don't want buyer's remorse by having it be a 'shelf queen' after the initial novelty wears off, lol!


----------



## Canuke

It looks like the price at the source (International Outdoor) has gone up. $178.68 now.

I was thinking of picking one up at Mountain Electronics along with the cells it will need, I wonder if Richard can keep the original price by the time he reopens Monday.


----------



## dc38

carl said:


> On more question: In their own opinion, does anyone think its too heavy and bulky for daily use around the house?
> 
> I just wanted other's thoughts on this since I don't want buyer's remorse by having it be a 'shelf queen' after the initial novelty wears off, lol!



Redefine heavy as "hefty" and you wont have a problem carrying it. An average smartphone has an msrp of ober 500$, yet we drop those all the time. Worse comes to worse, ill offer to buy yours from you.


----------



## tonkem

Anyone have any pics of the M43 with a Zebralight S6330?


----------



## carl

Speaking of the S6330 (and also the MM15), I wonder why the M43 design didn't incorporate a built-in battery carrier. That design seemed like the way to go for a more direct current flow to the head rather than relying on the aluminum battery cover to bottom onto the head for bare aluminum to bare aluminum contact, like the M43.


----------



## Fireclaw18

carl said:


> Speaking of the S6330 (and also the MM15), I wonder why the M43 design didn't incorporate a built-in battery carrier. That design seemed like the way to go for a more direct current flow to the head rather than relying on the aluminum battery cover to bottom onto the head for bare aluminum to bare aluminum contact, like the M43.



The metal of the body tube is thicker than any wire. It should give a better connection and is simpler and more durable than a battery carrier. This system is fine for lights like the M43 that have the batteries in parallel. This carrier-free battery tube is also probably shorter since there isn't a need to accomodate the carrier.

The main benefit of an internal battery carrier like in the S6630 is that the cells aren't being dragged sideways across a single positive contact. This is excellent for a light like the S6330 where the cells are not in parallel. Instead each battery is on a separate circuit powering a single emitter.


----------



## dc38

Also allows lockout


----------



## Giocomo

carl said:


> I suspect the copper endplate of the battery carrier can also be thinned and trimmed since there is more than enough copper material to conduct current - unless the endplate is also acting as a heatsink.



Since the voltage is 3.7V and the light will draw up to 30A (to boost the voltage) there is never enough resistance for such combination, there is no such things as acceptable loss at such low voltage and such higher current, Ohm's Law is fundamental to understanding such notions. Also there is always resistance in something else, all is cumulative.
All manufacturers use a FR4 board with a typical think copper trace, I don't prefer that instead of pure copper.


----------



## Giocomo

carl said:


> Speaking of the S6330 (and also the MM15), I wonder why the M43 design didn't incorporate a built-in battery carrier. That design seemed like the way to go for a more direct current flow to the head rather than relying on the aluminum battery cover to bottom onto the head for bare aluminum to bare aluminum contact, like the M43.



You got a 1mm thick copper board that is gold plated in contact with the battery tube, nothing goes in the tail cover. The battery tube makes contact with the ground of the driver and it is very thick. This system is simple and effective for full parallel electrical configuration of the cells, the *MM15* is a *series* electrical configuration, not parallel. (read Selfbuilt's review, the circuitry makes the connection in series even if all cells are inserted in the same direction), or 
S6330 first of all has quite a weak power by today's standards, and secondly the battery carrier is used for the purpose to individualize cells, not have them in sort of electrical configuration.

It is too easy to make suggestions without understanding fundamental electronics.


----------



## fatsteve0

I am itching so bad tomorrow is Monday! I hope it arrives


----------



## carl

Giocomo said:


> You got a 1mm thick copper board that is gold plated in contact with the battery tube, nothing goes in the tail cover. The battery tube makes contact with the ground of the driver and it is very thick. This system is simple and effective for full parallel electrical configuration of the cells, the *MM15* is a *series* electrical configuration, not parallel. (read Selfbuilt's review, the circuitry makes the connection in series even if all cells are inserted in the same direction), or
> S6330 first of all has quite a weak power by today's standards, and secondly the battery carrier is used for the purpose to individualize cells, not have them in sort of electrical configuration.
> 
> It is too easy to make suggestions without understanding fundamental electronics.



Thank you very much for your explanations - great info! You're right, it is too easy to make suggestions in ignorance - that's why I made them, LOL! But that's why I'm on this forum, to learn from others.

Just a few more questions:
1) Why design the light's power system with batteries in-parallel since the higher current can result in a circuit with more losses? Wouldn't in-series have been more efficient with higher voltage and lower current? Of course, the in-parallel configuration gives us more flexibility in using less than 4 batteries (in an emergency) but this advantage is a secondary benefit. 

2) Would it be correct to assume a built-in carrier with an unbroken copper path between the head and tail end is still a better design? The battery carrier posts could be made of copper (more expensive too). Right now, there are multiple physical breaks in the current path between the head and tail which I assume have the affect of increasing resistance. This must be alleviated by screwing all the components down tightly, and even then, there is probably some residual resistance remaining.

Thank you for your answers!


----------



## carl

Asking for more opinions here: Does the M43 decrease your desire for Zebralight to resurrect the S6330? In other words, does the M43 make the S6330 redundant or superfluous/unnecessary for you? Just wondering...


----------



## tonkem

I will let you know when I get the M43  I am interested in the small size and good throw of the m43 versus the Zebralight. I love my 6330, as it was and still is quite an achievement in size and power, IMHO. But I also have the Lupine Betty TL-S that is lighter and slightly more powerful then the 6330, hence my interest in the M43.... 

I would still like to see the 6330 brought back, as Zebralights are small and powerful, and have great circuits, once again my opinion. 



carl said:


> Asking for more opinions here: Does the M43 decrease your desire for Zebralight to resurrect the S6330? In other words, does the M43 make the S6330 redundant or superfluous/unnecessary for you? Just wondering...


----------



## Giocomo

carl said:


> Thank you very much for your explanations - great info! You're right, it is too easy to make suggestions in ignorance - that's why I made them, LOL! But that's why I'm on this forum, to learn from others.
> 
> Just a few more questions:
> 1) Why design the light's power system with batteries in-parallel since the higher current can result in a circuit with more losses? Wouldn't in-series have been more efficient with higher voltage and lower current? Of course, the in-parallel configuration gives us more flexibility in using less than 4 batteries (in an emergency) but this advantage is a secondary benefit.
> 
> 2) Would it be correct to assume a built-in carrier with an unbroken copper path between the head and tail end is still a better design? The battery carrier posts could be made of copper (more expensive too). Right now, there are multiple physical breaks in the current path between the head and tail which I assume have the affect of increasing resistance. This must be alleviated by screwing all the components down tightly, and even then, there is probably some residual resistance remaining.
> 
> Thank you for your answers!



Did you paid attention to anything in the flashlight or you just like to assume negativities?
"Right now, there are multiple physical breaks in the current path between the head and tail which I assume have the affect of increasing resistance."
I believe you don't even know what you are saying.


----------



## carl

For clarification of my previous words: "Right now, there are multiple physical breaks in the current path between the head and tail which I assume have the affect of increasing resistance."

What I meant by "physical breaks" is, for example, the interface between the gold band in the head and the bare aluminum end of the battery tube. Although they are in direct contact when the tube is screwed to the head, this is still a physical break (the gold and aluminum are not a one-piece item) which increases resistance over and above another design which might involve a one-piece design of some sort. 

This principle was previously discussed on another thread here where a forum member was designing a low-resistance tailcap spring. He discovered that his design - which involved a two-piece tailcap spring, 2 very short springs assembled in series - resulted in a significant increase in resistance over the one-piece spring of the standard McClicky switch. This increase in resistance, it was discovered, was from the "physical break" between the two short spring pieces although they were mechanically connected. From this finding, he abandoned his project.

I am not assuming negatives, but simply trying to learn. No offense was intended to the maker/designer of the M43, to any owners of the M43, or to anyone else here. 

If my words sounded like I was assuming negatives, I can only say this was not my true intention. 

One of the difficulties of communicating in written form (like on this forum) is that we have no idea how the words were meant if they had been stated in-person - no word inflections, verbal or physical expressions, etc. Of the thousands of questions I have previously asked here on CPF (in a similar manner) in the past decade, I have always strived to ask questions respectfully and I have never been told I have done otherwise. I have appreciated this forum and my experiences here for the past decade because the other members here have made the environment here comfortable for all of us to feel free to ask questions, regardless of how ignorant we are on the subject (I practice medicine for my daily livelihood, not electronics). I know we all strive to remain open to others and their opinions and questions. This is the environment we strive to maintain. This is why we love being here on CPF!


----------



## carl

tonkem said:


> I will let you know when I get the M43  I am interested in the small size and good throw of the m43 versus the Zebralight. I love my 6330, as it was and still is quite an achievement in size and power, IMHO. But I also have the Lupine Betty TL-S that is lighter and slightly more powerful then the 6330, hence my interest in the M43....
> 
> Tonkem,
> 
> I would still like to see the 6330 brought back, as Zebralights are small and powerful, and have great circuits, once again my opinion.



I keep wishing the Lupines will come down in price so I occasionally check their mountainbike sales site - no chance on any sales, LOL! I almost purchased the Piko a while back but the dealer left ebay. German tech is nice but expensive! 

I was also hoping the S6330 would return, but this M43 may fit me even better! For almost the same size light, there is almost 3 times the light output! No going back on the lower output, right?

When you get your M43, maybe you can give us a few quick comments on your comparison with the Lupine and ZL.


----------



## dc38

carl said:


> I keep wishing the Lupines will come down in price so I occasionally check their mountainbike sales site - no chance on any sales, LOL! I almost purchased the Piko a while back but the dealer left ebay. German tech is nice but expensive!
> 
> I was also hoping the S6330 would return, but this M43 may fit me even better! For almost the same size light, there is almost 3 times the light output! No going back on the lower output, right?
> 
> When you get your M43, maybe you can give us a few quick comments on your comparison with the Lupine and ZL.



From what I have experienced...there is no experience to be gathered hearing about others experiences without experiencing it yourself. While it helps to get a general picture of something through reviews and feedback, it is not the same as getting unbiased impersonal facts. That Is one reason I like Selfbuilt's reviews so much, he makes it clear which portions of his reviews are purely personal.

Are you planning on purchasing one? Is your location a barrier to your decision?


----------



## carl

No external barriers, just me. As usual, most barriers are with the consumer themselves.

The parasitic drain issue was answered very favorably for the M43 - 21 microAmps- super low. Wow! 

The weight issue was also answered favorably - yes the M43 is rather heavy for its size but for good reasons - generous use of copper throughout for good electrical conduction and heatsinking. 

The battery carrier design - I preferred the built-in carrier like the Zebralight S6330 but I got a good answer from Giocomo and others to my satisfaction. 

The requirement for IMR batteries is also an issue, since this requires not just battery purchases but also a new IMR charger. Not a deal breaker but this could add another $50-$60 to the total cost. I don't know if using IMRs is a hard requirement here but if you want maximum output, it seems the way to go. 

The only other issue, which I will probably get scolded for here, is the 'wait for the V2 improved version' mentality - which I tend to agree with. Designs tend to get worked out over time, especially with input from the first set of buyers. For cheaper lights, getting the initial first design is fine with me, but as the light quality goes toward the high-end - and the M43 is definitely high-end, I tend to get pickier for some reason. Personal taste. Of course, this means more patience is required of the consumer.


----------



## chuckhov

I don't get the issue with IMR with the Nitecore i4 V2???

This review shows that it does support IMR.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-SysMax-NiteCore-Intellicharger-i4-V2-Charger

-Chuck


----------



## carl

Hi Chuck - good find. My 3 year old i4 V2 box and manual says nothing about IMR capability. I am also not sure if it is a v1 or v2. I will need to look into this further.


----------



## chuckhov

Carl,

I have the D4 so it's probably different, but I have no trouble at all with IMR.

I do think that we will be seeing more and more of IMR in the future. 

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## carl

Hi Chuck, the new 2014 version of the i4 says IMR on the box. I sure hope my old i4 is IMR compatible - will have to wait and see. If I do need to get another charger, the Nitecore D4 or the Xtar VP4 is probably the way to go.


----------



## carl

Hi Chuck, the new 2014 version of the i4 says IMR on the box. I sure hope my old i4 is IMR compatible - will have to wait and see. If I do need to get another charger, the Nitecore D4 or the Xtar VP4 is probably the way to go. 

As far as IMR batts, some studies seem to show that the capacity of IMRs when used above 3V is actually higher than the Panasonic 18650B so IMR is the way to go, not just for high discharge but even for capacity - above 3V. This finding, however, goes against many anecdotal reports that the Panasonic 18650B have high capacity based on long light output duration between charging.


----------



## carl

repeat post


----------



## tonkem

Looks like the V2 of the Nitecore i4 charger supports IMR per HK's review in 2012. I also have the i4 V2 of the charger to charge my 18650's, so I would assume it will charge the IMR versions fine. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-SysMax-NiteCore-Intellicharger-i4-V2-Charger



carl said:


> Hi Chuck, the new 2014 version of the i4 says IMR on the box. I sure hope my old i4 is IMR compatible - will have to wait and see. If I do need to get another charger, the Nitecore D4 or the Xtar VP4 is probably the way to go.


----------



## carl

The review by HKJ for the 2012 version shows pictures of the box, which clearly do not mention IMR compatibility on the box. This is different and in-contrast to the newer 2014 i4 box which does mention IMR compatibility. This difference on the box should mean something - that the 2012 version is not IMR-compatible, unless Nitecore simply forgot to mention it on the 2012 i4 box and in their manual - and then remembered to mention it on their 2014 i4 charger box. 

I wonder where HKJ got the compatibility chart he used in the review which shows the 2012 i4 version is IMR-compatible. That chart is not in the owners manual. Interesting...

This begs the question: what makes a 18650 lithium battery charger IMR compatible or not compatible? I assume it has something to do with the charge rate or cutoff voltage but not sure. Too technical for me, lol!


----------



## chuckhov

"This begs the question: what makes a 18650 lithium battery charger IMR compatible or not compatible? I assume it has something to do with the charge rate or cutoff voltage but not sure. Too technical for me, lol!"

Carl,

IMR was not a popular thing until very recently, and I think that is the reason for no mention in the past about compatability.

If the charger is safe for ICR (Li-ion) cells, then it is safe for IMR. - The cutoff voltage is the same in either case. - 4.2v.

Again: If your charger will safely charge ICR, then it will be good to go for IMR. - There are no special settings on any charger for IMR - They all use the same 4.2v Li-ion setting.

I think that some of the confusion may be with the other voltage range batteries - The IFR (LiFeP04). - They require a cut off of 3.6-3.7v, and the i4 is Not compatible with those, while the D4 is. - BUT you must switch to that range (LiFeP04) yourself... Otherwise the D4 will not know the difference and will over-charge IFRs.

Again: Safe for ICR - Then safe for IMR - Same voltage.... If your charger does not cut off at or around 4.2v, then it is not safe for either.

Thank you,
-Chuck


----------



## Rod911

Size comparison. S6330vn and Meteor M43.


----------



## tonkem

carl said:


> The review by HKJ for the 2012 version shows pictures of the box, which clearly do not mention IMR compatibility on the box.



In his review, HKJ tests the charger by charging an IMR 16340 showing that it can charge IMR.


----------



## tonkem

Thanks for the comparison shot. Which version of the M43 did you get, and how would you compare it to the 6330 in terms of size/weight, and power? Which of the lights do you prefer, after having both, and which batteries did you get for the Meteor?




Rod911 said:


> Size comparison. S6330vn and Meteor M43.


----------



## Rod911

I got the Nichia 219B version. The beam profile is truly, a wall of light. I thought the S6330vn was a wall of light, but this thing beats it handily in terms of light output. Through a simple ceiling bounce test, the Meteor is simply brighter. However, in terms of throw, the S6330vn still wins out. Also, when doing a white wall test, because of the S6330's throwier nature, you will see its hotspot at 10 meters compared to the Meteor.

I'm currently feeding it 18650BE cells. This isn't really the optimum cell to use because it's not truly a high drain cell. I have to wait whether my order of Samsung INR18650MH1 and see if they'll make a difference. 

Regarding size, I prefer the Meteor that little bit due to my smaller hands. As for the weight, you wouldn't think something this small would be heavy but it is. When loaded with cells, it's heavier than the S6330vn, but I don't find it taxing when hold onto for long periods of time (>30 minutes). I currently have it in UI2 mode. This is very similar to Zebralight's UI and it took a good 5 minutes to figure out how to use it and memorise it.

Which one I prefer? It has to be the Meteor. Despite the S6330 being made by Vinh, it's one of the first ones he did and quality control wasn't the best back then (visible dust inside the lens). The quality of the Meteor and its versatility wins out.


----------



## Mr. Tone

carl said:


> Hi Chuck, the new 2014 version of the i4 says IMR on the box. I sure hope my old i4 is IMR compatible - will have to wait and see. If I do need to get another charger, the Nitecore D4 or the Xtar VP4 is probably the way to go.



Any standard li-ion charger will work for IMR cells. It is LiFePO4 cells that need a special charger. There are hybrid IMR type cells out there with really good capacity like the Panasonic PF cells.


----------



## chuckhov

Dr. Tone,

Somehow you managed to say that in much less words than it took me to do it

Thanks!
-Chuck


----------



## tonkem

Wow, that is impressive that the Nichia version has more light, in your opinion, then the 6330vn. I am considering the XP-G2 S2 DD version, with a 70,000 cd rating, so should throw much further then the 6330 or the Nichia version of the Meteor. I am looking forward to this light, thanks again for the observations.  



Rod911 said:


> I got the Nichia 219B version. The beam profile is truly, a wall of light. I thought the S6330vn was a wall of light, but this thing beats it handily in terms of light output. Through a simple ceiling bounce test, the Meteor is simply brighter. However, in terms of throw, the S6330vn still wins out. Also, when doing a white wall test, because of the S6330's throwier nature, you will see its hotspot at 10 meters compared to the Meteor.
> 
> I'm currently feeding it 18650BE cells. This isn't really the optimum cell to use because it's not truly a high drain cell. I have to wait whether my order of Samsung INR18650MH1 and see if they'll make a difference.
> 
> Regarding size, I prefer the Meteor that little bit due to my smaller hands. As for the weight, you wouldn't think something this small would be heavy but it is. When loaded with cells, it's heavier than the S6330vn, but I don't find it taxing when hold onto for long periods of time (>30 minutes). I currently have it in UI2 mode. This is very similar to Zebralight's UI and it took a good 5 minutes to figure out how to use it and memorise it.
> 
> Which one I prefer? It has to be the Meteor. Despite the S6330 being made by Vinh, it's one of the first ones he did and quality control wasn't the best back then (visible dust inside the lens). The quality of the Meteor and its versatility wins out.


----------



## twistedraven

How well does this thing handle thermal stress, considering there's 12 leds mounted on the same circuit board with minimal heat-sinking on the exterior?


----------



## Fireclaw18

twistedraven said:


> How well does this thing handle thermal stress, considering there's 12 leds mounted on the same circuit board with minimal heat-sinking on the exterior?



* All 12 LEDs are mounted on a gigantic direct copper noctigon star. Noctigons, and other direct copper stars, are the gold standard when it comes to to thermal performance on a star.
* The star is mounted directly on a full shelf platform (solid, not hollow), which itself is part of the head. There's a direct thermal path to the exterior of the light. With this design, thermal characteristics should be excellent. 
* The M43 has a thermal sensor that reduces output if the light gets too hot.
* From reviews, the M43 seems to handle heat very well, maintaining near maximum output even after being on in turbo for minutes.


----------



## twistedraven

That's good to know!


----------



## carl

Thanks to all for your explanations on IMR compatibility for my i4 charger - good news! I was afraid I was eventually going to land up with a 'collection' of chargers in my room over the years, but I only have and need the one.


----------



## carl

Rod, thanks for the shots and your comments!


----------



## chuckhov

But Carl,

Remember, 1 is 0 and 2 is one

-Chuck


----------



## carl

Chuck, that one went over my head (as do a lot of things!). 


BTW, your explanation of why Nitecore didn't mention IMR compatibility in the 2012 version seems right. Thank you for clearing that up. 

On Rod's picture, I notice the lanyard hole is to the far right of the power button while on other lights, it seems to land up to the left or at center. I wonder if the machining location of the lanyard hole is random (other than being located at the thickest wall between cells) or maybe dependent on cell length or varying tolerances between head and tube length. Just an observation.

I never thought I would be thinking this but the S6330 looks rather plain when its sitting next to the beautiful two-tone M43 with the glowing power button. Great photo!

The head shot also makes the M43 really stand out with the red boards and 12 LEDs. Awesome! The light is a thing of beauty just sitting there.


----------



## chuckhov

chuckhov said:


> But Carl,
> 
> Remember, 1 is 0 and 2 is one
> 
> -Chuck



Carl - It's an EDC kinda thing, but here I was speaking of chargers.

One light is no light at all if it happens to fail you when you need it most, so... Two lights give you a better chance at having at least one work.

Question? - How does anyone live with only one charger???

I dunno
-Chuck


----------



## carl

chuckhov said:


> Question? - How does anyone live with only one charger???



LOL!


----------



## carl

Rod,
Thank you for your comments about your new light - very helpful. 

You mentioned Samsung INR18650MH1. If you are referring to the blue wrapper 3200mAh IMR battery, is this a IMR-Hybrid battery? I assume hybrid since its got decent capacity - straight IMR is usually much lower capacity. However, the only ones I could find are flat tops. Assuming you found some button tops, where did you purchase them? Thank you.


----------



## chuckhov

Carl,

MTN Electronics has both Flat and Button, and protected too, if you like such things.

http://www.mtnelectronics*dot*com/i...y&path=59_88&sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100 - (replace the dot)

Best prices in the USA and Quick service!

-Chuck


----------



## Rod911

carl said:


> Chuck, that one went over my head (as do a lot of things!).
> 
> On Rod's picture, I notice the lanyard hole is to the far right of the power button while on other lights, it seems to land up to the left or at center. I wonder if the machining location of the lanyard hole is random (other than being located at the thickest wall between cells) or maybe dependent on cell length or varying tolerances between head and tube length. Just an observation.



You have the option to have it to the left or right of the button. In that picture it was on the left. But after trying it out for a bit, I didn't like it and moved it to the left.



carl said:


> You mentioned Samsung INR18650MH1. If you are referring to the blue wrapper 3200mAh IMR battery, is this a IMR-Hybrid battery? I assume hybrid since its got decent capacity - straight IMR is usually much lower capacity. However, the only ones I could find are flat tops. Assuming you found some button tops, where did you purchase them? Thank you.



Yup, that's the one. I bought 10 of them from an Aliexpress dealer. I'm not sure if it is a hybrid cell, but it does make sense considering its high capacity for a high drain cell (10A). I haven't found button tops as I will solder in some when I get them. That's what I've done with my 18650BE cells and it works on this light.


----------



## carl

Thanks Chuck. I wonder why I googled that battery but MTN electronics didn't show. Anyway, thank you!

Mountain is still showing the lower price for the M43 too - but still no stock.


----------



## carl

Hi Rod, thank you for your response. Initially I didn't like the idea of soldering a button on because i was thinking it may get warm/hot and flatten out but I'm probably worrying about nothing. 

About the lanyard, I actually meant the metal loop in the battery tube. I should have been clearer on that but usually I see the metal loop toward the left or center when using the power button as my reference point. Yours is on the right. I think the variation is a matter of machining tolerances only. Just as long as it doesn't interfere with grip.


----------



## chuckhov

Carl,

MTN is still waiting for their first shipment.

I'm sure that their 2nd shipment of the M43 will reflect the price increase.

Richard will be opening up pre-orders soon, I think.

Good way for someone to save 20 bucks.

-Chuck


----------



## Rod911

Correction. The cells are *LG* 18650MH1 as tested by HKJ here:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/LG 18650 MH1 3200mAh (Cyan) UK.html

They're not made by Samsung.


----------



## carl

Is it safe to assume most M43 owners are going with UNprotected cells? Looks like it. This shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## dc38

carl said:


> Is it safe to assume most M43 owners are going with UNprotected cells? Looks like it. This shouldn't be a problem.



Im going with protected cells...evva 3200 from mtn elec.


----------



## carl

Is that the one with wrapper labeled "EVV" and called LG with the protection circuit described as: "The protection circuit features a high-quality Seiko IC (made in Japan) with AO MOSFETs." What is the significance of this? A low resistance set-up for a high-current application? Anyone know?

Here it is: http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=499&search=18650+3200mAh


----------



## dc38

carl said:


> Is that the one with wrapper labeled "EVV" and called LG with the protection circuit described as: "The protection circuit features a high-quality Seiko IC (made in Japan) with AO MOSFETs." What is the significance of this? A low resistance set-up for a high-current application? Anyone know?
> 
> Here it is: http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=499&search=18650+3200mAh



Thems the ones...a protection circuit might actually be inhibiting the true performance of this light lol


----------



## markr6

Sorry if it was already discussed, but what is the overall best cell to use with this?

Is a 3200mah high drain cell the one with a lower discharge (but still pretty high), or is the max high discharge of a 2500mah (i.e. HE2) worth the loss in capacity?


----------



## dc38

markr6 said:


> Sorry if it was already discussed, but what is the overall best cell to use with this?
> 
> Is a 3200mah high drain cell the one with a lower discharge (but still pretty high), or is the max high discharge of a 2500mah (i.e. HE2) worth the loss in capacity?



In mhanlen's video, it seems like his pannies induce less fluctuation during the operation of the light in turbo mode. Depending on how aggressively the light sucks power from the cells, the higher discharge rate will probably allow for a higher yield in overall OTF lumens for a sustained period of time at an overall reduced runtime. At 8A, it won't really make much of a differrence which cell you pick, but Id recommend the lower capacity with higher draw. Personally, I have been using the protected LG's with 3200mAh and have had no problems as of yet.


----------



## seasam

chuckhov said:


> Carl,
> 
> MTN is still waiting for their first shipment.
> 
> I'm sure that their 2nd shipment of the M43 will reflect the price increase.
> 
> Richard will be opening up pre-orders soon, I think.
> 
> Good way for someone to save 20 bucks.
> 
> -Chuck


 
looks like we're not going to get a batch at the original price. RMM updated the price listing today.


----------



## carl

The price had to be raised due to unforeseen manufacturing costs, which is understandable.

Quick question: Does anyone know what the cutoff voltage/built-in protection is for this light? Assuming there is built-in protection like most other lights out there, is there any advantage to purchasing protected cells? There seems virtually no way we would put the cells in the wrong direction since the button is pointed 'up' on all the cells.


----------



## Fireclaw18

carl said:


> The price had to be raised due to unforeseen manufacturing costs, which is understandable.
> 
> Quick question: Does anyone know what the cutoff voltage/built-in protection is for this light? Assuming there is built-in protection like most other lights out there, is there any advantage to purchasing protected cells? There seems virtually no way we would put the cells in the wrong direction since the button is pointed 'up' on all the cells.



My understanding is that this is a high-current light that really needs high-current low-resistance cells. Protected cells are low current ICR chemistry. You want high current IMR chemistry, which are all unprotected.

Basically, you should buy button-top Efest 35A IMR cells from Mountain Electronics, or comparable sells like the LG HE4.


----------



## Toolboxkid

Would I be ok to use protected orbtronic 3400mah cells in this light? I believe they cut off at 12.4amps. Do I risk battery damage if I decide to run these?


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## Fireclaw18

Vinh now has his M43vn thread up. Lots of additional options there.


----------



## seasam

Fireclaw18 said:


> Vinh now has his M43vn thread up. Lots of additional options there.



XHP70 mule? can somebody order that and take pics?


----------



## dc38

seasam said:


> XHP70 mule? can somebody order that and take pics?



You could ask vin for a concept drawing before ordering, lol


----------



## carl

Fireclaw18 said:


> My understanding is that this is a high-current light that really needs high-current low-resistance cells. Protected cells are low current ICR chemistry. You want high current IMR chemistry, which are all unprotected.
> 
> Basically, you should buy button-top Efest 35A IMR cells from Mountain Electronics, or comparable sells like the LG HE4.



Thanks Fireclaw. The Efest looks like the way to go.


----------



## markr6

From the Orbtronic website:

Purple 18650 Efest rated 35A or 38A is actually 20A cell.
18650 Imren 40A is actually 20A cell.
This is very serious safety issue.
Truth: There is no 35A, or 40A 18650 cells on the market.

I can't confirm this, just something I noticed recently.


----------



## carl

the M43vn XPG DD is $180 - that 's a good deal considering he did some extra heatsinking and current flow improvements.


----------



## carl

markr6 said:


> From the Orbtronic website:
> 
> Purple 18650 Efest rated 35A or 38A is actually 20A cell.
> 18650 Imren 40A is actually 20A cell.
> This is very serious safety issue.
> Truth: There is no 35A, or 40A 18650 cells on the market.
> 
> I can't confirm this, just something I noticed recently.



Is this another 'inflated numbers' issue again (previously seen regarding battery capacity but this time with current flow)? Really?


----------



## chuckhov

They are 20A Continuous, and 35A "Peak/Momentary", or whatever they choose to call it. 

I have heard that inside every Purple Efest 35A resides a LG HE2... Efest doesn't make cells, and nothing wrong with that. - KeepPower doesn't either, just to name another.

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## carl

ok, I guess we can calm down again. Although I think the LG HE4 is the slightly better cell over the HE2 in testing - probably no difference in actual use.

Mountain only has the nichia M43 left. The stone white is not available from anyone at this time, it seems. VN said he doesn't have any stone white, and Mountain Electronics' ordering page brings up a flashing 'not in stock' notice when clicking on the stone white option.

I think this means stone white is the more popular color or Hank doesn't have as much of it in stock as dark grey.


----------



## chuckhov

Blindfolded - You wouldn't even be able to tell the difference

-Chuck


----------



## carl

Toolboxkid said:


> Would I be ok to use protected orbtronic 3400mah cells in this light? I believe they cut off at 12.4amps. Do I risk battery damage if I decide to run these?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums



Kid,

I don't know much about batteries but based on the posts of others, it seems the batteries you mentioned are ok and won't get damaged but also won't give the M43 max light output since internal resistance is too high on non-IMR batts. Generally speaking, the higher the capacity, the higher the resistance, is how things have turned out with battery technology . This also goes for IMR/Hybrids which have slightly higher internal resistance over regular IMR but not as high as your 3400 batts. Your 3400 batts have high internal resistance which slows the flow of current provided to your light's driver.

Also, the graph below (see link) shows that as the battery voltage goes down from 4.2v to 3.2v as it discharges, the IMR actually has higher capacity in that voltage range. The hi-cap 3400mAh you mentioned only comes into play as the battery runs down below 3.2v - which would be getting into lower power mode usage like low or moonlight mode as the batts run dry - not what the Octigon M43 was really meant for. On Med or hi or turbo, the 2500 mAh IMR would actually be in the greater capacity range. I don't know why this is so, but that is what the graph in the link below shows.

In other words, spending $180 on a light which works best on IMRs is worth spending the extra $32 for 4 IMR batts.

See the graph link below but remember to click on the 5A setting since the M43 is usually going to be running higher Amps - the lower 2A setting will show that the Panasonic 3400mAh batt gives better capacity in lower Amp usage than the LG IMR - but I assume this Noctigon light will be used on the higher amp settings, being a high power light and all. 

Now, if that graph just had the option to click on 10 Amps, that would probably show an even greater battery capacity advantage for the IMR:



http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=507&akku2=141&akku3=0&akku4=0&akku5=0&akku6=0


----------



## Toolboxkid

carl said:


> Kid,
> 
> I don't know much about batteries but based on the posts of others, it seems the batteries you mentioned are ok and won't get damaged but also won't give the M43 max light output since internal resistance is too high on non-IMR batts. Generally speaking, the higher the capacity, the higher the resistance, is how things have turned out with battery technology . This also goes for IMR/Hybrids which have slightly higher internal resistance over regular IMR but not as high as your 3400 batts. Your 3400 batts have high internal resistance which slows the flow of current provided to your light's driver.
> 
> Also, the graph below (see link) shows that as the battery voltage goes down from 4.2v to 3.2v as it discharges, the IMR actually has higher capacity in that voltage range. The hi-cap 3400mAh you mentioned only comes into play as the battery runs down below 3.2v - which would be getting into lower power mode usage like low or moonlight mode as the batts run dry - not what the Octigon M43 was really meant for. On Med or hi or turbo, the 2500 mAh IMR would actually be in the greater capacity range. I don't know why this is so, but that is what the graph in the link below shows.
> 
> In other words, spending $180 on a light which works best on IMRs is worth spending the extra $32 for 4 IMR batts.
> 
> See the graph link below but remember to click on the 5A setting since the M43 is usually going to be running higher Amps - the lower 2A setting will show that the Panasonic 3400mAh batt gives better capacity in lower Amp usage than the LG IMR - but I assume this Noctigon light will be used on the higher amp settings, being a high power light and all.
> 
> Now, if that graph just had the option to click on 10 Amps, that would probably show an even greater battery capacity advantage for the IMR:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=507&akku2=141&akku3=0&akku4=0&akku5=0&akku6=0



Thank you for the info, very helpful. I ordered one with xpl's last night but they sent me a message that Nichias would better suit my taste. We will see what I get! Either way, I'll be happy. Looks like a new charger and IMR batteries will be my next purchase!


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## ChrisGarrett

I bought Richard's SupFire M6 mod. 2 that hits about 8A and picked up his button top Samsung 25Rs to run in it.

I'd try the LG HE2s next.

He says the M43 can hit 10A with things firing on all cylinders. Protection circuits generally kick in around 7A, so keep that in mind.

Chris


----------



## dc38

ChrisGarrett said:


> I bought Richard's SupFire M6 mod. 2 that hits about 8A and picked up his button top Samsung 25Rs to run in it.
> 
> I'd try the LG HE2s next.
> 
> He says the M43 can hit 10A with things firing on all cylinders. Protection circuits generally kick in around 7A, so keep that in mind.
> 
> Chris



Now then, it surely isnt 8 amps per cell, as they are mounted in parallel. More like 2.5 peak amps per cell, unless youre running less than the full complement of 4.


----------



## carl

I just noticed an old post at BLF where Hank mentioned he will close sales when the current stock is out. Does anyone know what he was referring to? I can't imagine limiting production for any reason....


----------



## ChrisGarrett

dc38 said:


> Now then, it surely isnt 8 amps per cell, as they are mounted in parallel. More like 2.5 peak amps per cell, unless youre running less than the full complement of 4.



I'm not an EE, nor a flashlight designer, but the thing has 12 LEDs. I don't know what each LED is drawing, but 2A seems reasonable and doable, so 24A total? Four cells, that's 6A each, no?

Chris


----------



## dc38

ChrisGarrett said:


> I'm not an EE, nor a flashlight designer, but the thing has 12 LEDs. I don't know what each LED is drawing, but 2A seems reasonable and doable, so 24A total? Four cells, that's 6A each, no?
> 
> Chris



At 6A each, wouldnt the runtime on turbo ultimately be about half an hour? (Even on high cap high draw cells)

At 12800mAh battery capacity, the light runs ~1.6h. That translates to an overall consumption of 8A, or 2A per cell. It would help to have a wiring diagram of the LEDs though


----------



## romteb

dc38 said:


> At 6A each, wouldnt the runtime on turbo ultimately be about half an hour?



Light output on turbo is not constant, the light coudn't even handle it thermally, the output (and thus amps) decreases a lot in the first 10 minutes.


----------



## Giocomo

At theoretical 2A per LED, since the driver outputs 8A @ 11V, that is how it actually works electrically, however that 8A is the Iout (Ouput current), the input current will be greater like on any regulated boost driver. There is no output current identical to input current unless a driver is linear. So what the manual says 7.5A per cell is correct. Runtimes cannot be calculated based on cell capacity, all has to be calculated in watts available in the cells (current load must be correct, not watt/h at 0.1A load, but at 7.5A load resulting watt/hour) and watts drawn.


----------



## markr6

Something is really keeping me from pulling the trigger on this. It's not just the price or need for another charger or 4 more batteries, but it worries me that I feel like it may be more of a "project" light, a prototype just to SEE how many lumens are possible instead of a practical tool. That's fine, nothing against Hank or the engineering of this thing. I know it's a work of art! Maybe I just need some convincing from those that own one.


----------



## seasam

markr6 said:


> Something is really keeping me from pulling the trigger on this. It's not just the price or need for another charger or 4 more batteries, but it worries me that I feel like it may be more of a "project" light, a prototype just to SEE how many lumens are possible instead of a practical tool. That's fine, nothing against Hank or the engineering of this thing. I know it's a work of art! Maybe I just need some convincing from those that own one.



yeah we haven't really seen what the step-down looks like for one. I know it's temperature dependent but it would be nice to have some kind of idea what the light is capable of running at between 5-20 minutes instead of just what it puts out in the first few minutes.


----------



## markr6

Just noticed the specs changed a little; not sure when.

NW 219BT 92CRI 4000lm 20,000cd 4790K

now says:

NW 219BT-V1 90CRI Min 4450lm 20,000cd 5000K

Not complaining  I'm torn between the Nichia and 3D flavor.


----------



## Giocomo

seasam said:


> yeah we haven't really seen what the step-down looks like for one. I know it's temperature dependent but it would be nice to have some kind of idea what the light is capable of running at between 5-20 minutes instead of just what it puts out in the first few minutes.



Most flashlights are temperature dependent that are high power, because are made for short burst, that is the most convenient way to use, be on medium for good runtime and then burst several second on turbo, that is why we need modes on flashlights with outputs over 500lumens, any light even a 20W light can get ultra hot, so the M43 is not extraordinary in this regard.


----------



## thedoc007

Giocomo said:


> Most flashlights are temperature dependent that are high power, because are made for short burst, that is the most convenient way to use, be on medium for good runtime and then burst several second on turbo, that is why we need modes on flashlight with outputs over 500lumens, any light even a 20W light can get ultra hot, so the M43 is not extraordinary in this regard.



Actually most lights still have timed stepdowns, not temperature controlled...but that doesn't answer seasam's question about how long it can run at what output. Does it do an abrupt stepdown, or dim over time? Can it run for two minutes on turbo, or ten? To a lot of people (me included) details like that matter.


----------



## markr6

The time lapse video showed it dimming, but may not be useful if you're looking for hard numbers.

I just don't want to get a light that puts out crazy light and end up using medium all the time. I understand the higher modes may just be for short bursts, but I think I'd rather have a lower max mode and be able to run that without worrying as much.

But as these sodacan lights get brighter and brighter, there's really nothing magical out there to keep them cool.


----------



## Giocomo

thedoc007 said:


> Actually most lights still have timed stepdowns, not temperature controlled...but that doesn't answer seasam's question about how long it can run at what output. Does it do an abrupt stepdown, or dim over time? Can it run for two minutes on turbo, or ten? To a lot of people (me included) details like that matter.



80W output if you think you can take that for 10minutes, then you don't need temperature control of timed step downs, but these lights are built for short burts exactly because of the high wattage.


----------



## Giocomo

markr6 said:


> T
> but I think I'd rather have a lower max mode and be able to run that without worrying as much.



This is why some people think the opposite, conscientiously use medium and have the turbo when they really want it, as a general rule. If you have a simple single XM-L2 3A using a single 18650 with no thermal regulation or stepdown timer and the light has excellent thermal path then you cannot hold that light after 15 minutes and it is only a 10W light.


----------



## tonkem

For the money, I can only think of one other non custom light that would come close, but still fall short, but for alot more money. That is the Lupine Betty TL2 at 4500 lumens, with thermal regulation, and a proprietary battery. So, for the money, in my mind, this light is a steal. I ordered the XP-G2 S2 version for the 70k cd. It shipped today from Mountain Elec, hope to have early next week. Will compare to the 6330, Lupine Betty TL-s (only 2600 lumens)... and let all know my impressions. I am by no means a reviewer, but will do my best to give an unbiased opinion against the aforementioned lights. 



markr6 said:


> Something is really keeping me from pulling the trigger on this. It's not just the price or need for another charger or 4 more batteries, but it worries me that I feel like it may be more of a "project" light, a prototype just to SEE how many lumens are possible instead of a practical tool. That's fine, nothing against Hank or the engineering of this thing. I know it's a work of art! Maybe I just need some convincing from those that own one.


----------



## mizjif

I received my stone white S2 dedome version two days ago, and my new Efest 35A cells yesterday. After a fresh charge, I can safely say, this thing is worth the money. Not only is it a monster in output, it nearly disappears in the hand with its small size. Fit and finish is second to none. This thing is special.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

markr6 said:


> Something is really keeping me from pulling the trigger on this. It's not just the price or need for another charger or 4 more batteries, but it worries me that I feel like it may be more of a "project" light, a prototype just to SEE how many lumens are possible instead of a practical tool. That's fine, nothing against Hank or the engineering of this thing. I know it's a work of art! Maybe I just need some convincing from those that own one.



We're all different, but unless you have a specialized need for one of these monster lights, they're not all that fun to carry around, even when walking the dog for 20 minutes, let alone hiking somewhere. My SupFire M6 is similar to the Meteor and it just sits in its box only coming out when I want to cycle the cells.

Heck, I can say the same thing for my SWM D40A. I carried it the first night I had it, to a Costco and then on a walk in a park and that's been that...lol.

Chris


----------



## easilyled

ChrisGarrett said:


> We're all different, but unless you have a specialized need for one of these monster lights, they're not all that fun to carry around, even when walking the dog for 20 minutes, let alone hiking somewhere. My SupFire M6 is similar to the Meteor and it just sits in its box only coming out when I want to cycle the cells.
> 
> Heck, I can say the same thing for my SWM D40A. I carried it the first night I had it, to a Costco and then on a walk in a park and that's been that...lol.
> 
> Chris



Yes I'm waiting for the time that there's a CR123 EDC pocket-light that can produce that many lumens. I think its going to be a very long wait though! :naughty:


----------



## markr6

For me I guess it's just half boredom/half addiction. I want something new and insanely bright. It won't be the most practical light in my bag that's for sure!


----------



## ChrisGarrett

easilyled said:


> Yes I'm waiting for the time that there's a CR123 EDC pocket-light that can produce that many lumens. I think its going to be a very long wait though! :naughty:



Don't get me wrong, I think that everybody should own a monster light, or two, even those people who don't actually 'need' something that powerful. They're awesome in their own right, just not practical to carry.

My buddy sent me his TK61vn V4 in March while I was at home visiting my family and I showed my dad and my sister what the thing could do and they couldn't believe it.

I've got some decent lights, but the two that I rotate through and carry pretty much everyday, are my ET D-25C Ti. clicky and SWM V11R, both with IMR 16340s. They've rarely left me 'wanting' for more and I'm out and about in the big city, quite often.

Were I to live out in the boonies, I might carry something bigger.

Chris


----------



## Kevin1322

A lot of talk on practicality of this light. I'd just like to make a couple of comments on this, just as a reminder to some. 
At almost $200, this is not a "practical" purchase for most people wanting a flashlight. Professionals that need the really bright light for longer periods of time won't be getting this either.
If you need the 6,000 plus lumen light for long periods of time this isn't the light for you, but with all the levels of light and the build quality, I really don't think anyone can say this isn't a practical light (if you have the money). Something this small isn't meant to be run at 4,000 to 6,000 lumens for very long; they are there for short bursts, just in case, or just for fun. 


Personally I am getting one when I can. For flashlight enthusiasts, it seems to be THE light to have for 2015. It's a lot of light (not just in lumens) for the price and I just don't see it getting any better, at least this year. Just my opinion, of course.


----------



## markr6

I believe I started with throwing out the word "practical". I didn't mean that in a negative way at all; just trying to find a balance between output and runtime without getting hot. It's tough! Like selfbuilt said, the TN36 gets really hot. So it's just an unavoidable limitation at this time until some new technology comes along.


----------



## Kevin1322

This small of a light, yes. You can get this though and be fine at 5000 lumens as far as heat goes ;-) Vinh also does this light, giving it more lumen and better heat management.
http://acebeam.com/acebeam-10000-lumen-x60m#.VV-c0mfbJes


----------



## Jose Marin

just got my xpl de dome, crazy bright. UI is awesome


----------



## markr6

^^ Looking good! This thread needed MORE PICS


----------



## carl

on BLF Hank recently said the first run is 300 units, and any future runs will depend on demand. The demand has got to be pretty high - this light is a winner - I wonder how many units have sold so far. 

I would think there is the potential to sell as many as the S6330, the MM15, the TM26, and the TN36. etc. combined.


----------



## Jose Marin

Olight sr mini








m43 xpl de dome


----------



## Glenn7

How's the tint on your XP-L, green?


----------



## Jose Marin

at max it's neutral white and gets a little warmer the lower you go, not much though


----------



## carl

markr6 said:


> From the Orbtronic website:
> 
> Purple 18650 Efest rated 35A or 38A is actually 20A cell.
> 18650 Imren 40A is actually 20A cell.
> This is very serious safety issue.
> Truth: There is no 35A, or 40A 18650 cells on the market.
> 
> I can't confirm this, just something I noticed recently.



The Dampfakkus.de battery testing site: "please be wary of Efests notoriously fake discharge limits." This comment is on their 'Efest Purple 3D IMR18650-2500 35A' page.

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=583


BTW, thanks for the beamshots Jose!


----------



## carl

M43 manual states: "It is desired to use the cell with the highest voltage on a 7.5A load."

Does anyone know:

1) Does this mean that getting the IMR Hybrid LG MH1 3200mAh batts is good enough for this light since it is rated at 10A continuous drain (10A > 7.5A)?

2) If so, is getting the extra-high current LG HE4 2500mAh IMR or Efest 35A 2500mAh not really necessary to get max light output for this light? 

If this is the case, I would rather go with the higher capacity 3200mAh LG MH1 battery.

Thank you for your help.

BTW, is anyone using 4.35V batts? Which one?


----------



## Giocomo

markr6 said:


> I believe I started with throwing out the word "practical". I didn't mean that in a negative way at all; just trying to find a balance between output and runtime without getting hot. It's tough! Like selfbuilt said, the TN36 gets really hot. *So it's just an unavoidable limitation at this time until some new technology comes along.*



Unless we are using something else that are not LEDs there is no such thing as no heat, or acceptable heat. Manufacturers will not lower their drive currents, or more correctly the wattage, it is a competition of lumen between companies, new LEDs means more lumen not less heat, as more efficient ways of illuminations means more lumen/watt.
What I am saying it is very simple, watts=heat, light output does not matter, 2 lumens for 80W or 10,000lumen for 80W is still the same thing for the hand since it is the same amount of energy dissipated

That is why it makes sense not to use the highest output power on a light for dozens on minutes straight and be conscious about the wattage or various modes. Or one can just carry a huge light like it was posted by Kevin1322.


----------



## Giocomo

carl said:


> The Dampfakkus.de battery testing site: "please be wary of Efests notoriously fake discharge limits." This comment is on their 'Efest Purple 3D IMR18650-2500 35A' page.
> 
> http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=583
> 
> 
> BTW, thanks for the beamshots Jose!



All we need to know is the cell they actually warp their brand around, becasue then we have datasheets to know what the manufacturers says, for example
http://www.powerstream.com/p/INR18650-25R-datasheet.pdf
That is one of the best datasheet on any 18650 cell, you can see capacity claim at 10A or 0.2C (0.2*2500=500mA current test)


----------



## Giocomo

carl said:


> M43 manual states: "It is desired to use the cell with the highest voltage on a 7.5A load."
> 
> Does anyone know:
> 
> 1) Does this mean that getting the IMR Hybrid LG MH1 3200mAh batts is good enough for this light since it is rated at 10A continuous drain (10A > 7.5A)?
> 
> 2) If so, is getting the extra-high current LG HE4 2500mAh IMR or Efest 35A 2500mAh not really necessary to get max light output for this light?
> 
> If this is the case, I would rather go with the higher capacity 3200mAh LG MH1 battery.
> 
> Thank you for your help.
> 
> BTW, is anyone using 4.35V batts? Which one?



It simply means the highest voltage on load, in that case 7.5A. Check reviewers and see which cells have the highest voltage on a 7.5A load or something similar to 7.5A, like 8A.


----------



## amaretto

We made a beamshot comparison of four versions of the Meteor M43 except the greenish HULK-XP-L DD.
XP-G2 S3 3D is my favourite.
http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/b...62-beamshots-lampenbildern-27.html#post554523


----------



## Kevin1322

Awesome! Thank you! 
I would have thought the XP-G2 dedomed would throw farther then that at 80k lux. How far away were the trees in the very back?


----------



## richbuff

Kevin1322 said:


> [snip] How far away were the trees in the very back?


The first post of that uber epic thread says 100 meters. 

Quote from the first post of that thread: "Bis zur Eiche 100 m"


----------



## carl

Giocomo said:


> It simply means the highest voltage on load, in that case 7.5A. Check reviewers and see which cells have the highest voltage on a 7.5A load or something similar to 7.5A, like 8A.



OK, thank you.


----------



## carl

Toolboxkid said:


> Looks like a new charger and IMR batteries will be my next purchase!



Your regular 18650 charger will work on IMR and IMR/Hybrid batts.


----------



## Toolboxkid

carl said:


> Your regular 18650 charger will work on IMR and IMR/Hybrid batts.



Thanks Carl. I have the old nitecore charger and was unsure. 


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## Jose Marin

don't notice any green on my xpl de dome


----------



## Kevin1322

richbuff said:


> The first post of that uber epic thread says 100 meters.
> 
> Quote from the first post of that thread: "Bis zur Eiche 100 m"



Thank you sir. I was looking but somehow I missed it.


----------



## amaretto

my measurements, lumen with ceiling bounce


----------



## chuckhov

Are the LUX values interchanged for the two Dome-On XP-G2s?

Thanks,

-Chuck


----------



## amaretto

Hi Chuck, no, it's correct. The neutral one has a more concentrated hot spot, smaller in diameter. Therefore more lux/candela.
best regards, Markus


----------



## Jose Marin

anyone know some good 4.35v 18650s that will work with this? I noticed in the manual it can hande the voltage. Im running efest imr 3100mah 10amp 18650s in it currently


----------



## markr6

OK my ThruNite TN30 Mini was a bust. Someone convince me to get this M43 Nichia (~200) over the Eagleac M25L3C Nichia (~$130)


----------



## chuckhov

"...Someone convince me..."


Mark,

If Nichia is what you want, please be advised that out of the first order, Nichia is All that Richard has left:

mtnelectronics has them In Stock!

I guess that the others were what the guys were wanting... though except for 'perhaps' the 3D, I 'personally' don't see why.

How did I do?

-Chuck


----------



## markr6

I've been going to mtnelectronics for over a week now, adding it to my card, thinking some more, coming back later...can't decide!!!


----------



## chuckhov

Better check out while you still can!



Richard is a good guy to deal with.

-Chuck


----------



## tonkem

Richard has more in stock of all flavors, except the XP-L now.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

Jose Marin said:


> anyone know some good 4.35v 18650s that will work with this? I noticed in the manual it can hande the voltage. Im running efest imr 3100mah 10amp 18650s in it currently



Your Sanyo, Samsung and LG 4.35v cells are still li-co based and not up to the 8A-10A task, if you ask me.

I run the LG D1 3000mAh cells and the LG E1 3200mAh jobbies, but not in my high drain SupFire M6 mod.2. I use naked BT Samsung 25Rs in that.

Chris


----------



## markr6

tonkem said:


> Richard has more in stock of all flavors, except the XP-L now.



Sort of glad still no S3 3D tint either because I really wanted one...but went with a different light altogether.


----------



## chuckhov

Mark,

Are you getting the ET?

Thanks,

-Chuck


----------



## markr6

chuckhov said:


> Mark,
> 
> Are you getting the ET?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Chuck



Yes I'm trying the MX25L3C Nichia 219. Depending on what I think of that, I may still get the M43 Nichia as well and sell whichever I like less.

I'm still thinking the S3 3D tint is the one for me on this light though.


----------



## chuckhov

Mark,

Yes, I agree with you about the 3D. - Pretty close to the tint of the Nichia but with a lot more output. Didn't care for the 3C tint that Hank started out with on the M43; good to see that he ran out of them - A bit too yellow/green for my tastes.

I think that Amelia is gonna be proud

Thanks,

-Chuck


----------



## Giocomo

Photos will not do justice to high CRI, green LEDs will favor green (making green environments look good), put those 3D on red stuff and see how not close they are to Nichia's CRI, in real life that is not in photos.


----------



## markr6

Giocomo said:


> Photos will not do justice to high CRI, green LEDs will favor green (making green environments look good), put those 3D on red stuff and see how not close they are to Nichia's CRI, in real life that is not in photos.



That's true. I have an XP-L V6 w/ 3D tint; those should technically be the same tint even though this M43 uses an XP-G, right? If so, I really like the 3D tint. I think it's perfect NW, almost cool.


----------



## Fireclaw18

I prefer the 4100K CREE 5A2 tint or 4D tint in either XPG2 or XPL.

To me my lights with those tints look much superior to my Nichia 219a and 219b. The 219 looks washed out compared to the warmer and much brighter Cree. And the difference in CRI (80 for the CREE and 90 for the 219) isn't nearly as noticeable as the tint.


----------



## Rod911

Rod911 said:


> I'm currently feeding it 18650BE cells. This isn't really the optimum cell to use because it's not truly a high drain cell. I have to wait whether my order of LG INR18650MH1 and see if they'll make a difference.



These cells came in the other day and man, they do make a difference. The NCR18650BE cells simply was not able to feed the power this light needed in its high and turbo modes. 

When I use the LG cells, on turbo, I can *feel* the heat coming out from the front of the light and the head getting hot quickly. Something that I didn't experience with the Panasonic cells. The recommendation to use high drain cells with this light certainly comes warranted.


----------



## Fireclaw18

My Grey 1D dedomed Meteor arrived today.

It carries a lot of firsts for me:

1. My first LED light to run multiple cells in parallel.
2. My first LED light to use more than one 18650.
3. My heaviest LED light by far.
4. My largest LED light by far.
5. My throwiest LED light.
6. My brightest LED light by far.

The output of this thing on turbo powered by 4x18650 is absolutely amazing, but it's definitely not an EDC sized pocket light like most of my other LED lights.


----------



## Giocomo

Fireclaw18 said:


> I prefer the 4100K CREE 5A2 tint or 4D tint in either XPG2 or XPL.
> 
> To me my lights with those tints look much superior to my Nichia 219a and 219b. The 219 looks washed out compared to the warmer and much brighter Cree. And the difference in CRI (80 for the CREE and 90 for the 219) isn't nearly as noticeable as the tint.



4D and 5A2 are red type of tints that is what you like, not greenish or bluish like most neutrals are. 3C is the most overrated tint to be recommended as neutral, really a green tint. 
3D is nicer than 3C for sure, but not night and day difference in all color rendition (just less obnoxious green). Green evioroments are not so pretentious so any neutral with green in it will make the green pop, tree barks still look unreal.

CRI should not be mistaken for Kelvin, some prefer true neutral (5500K) some prefer warmer like 4000K-3500K.
CRI is also a loose term, which only expresses how the LED renders washed out colors and ignores any green or blue dominance because it is an average of R1 to R8 ! 
All CREE LEDs suffer in the R9 department and have huge R11, which are not even standard colors for the "CRI" rating (R1 to R8 means CRI only, rest of the saturated colors are not part of the standard). You can also see how purpelish and greenish colors make up the CRI standard (R1 to R8) which is consistent with what LEDs tend to do best in reality in the cool and neutral range.
The neutral Nichia has better Reds than the corresponding neutral CREE LEDs.


----------



## Seattle Sparky

Recieved my second M43 with s3 3d black body today, the first one is stone gray 219b that I got a few weeks ago impressed me enough to order a second one.

The light feels in the hand like no other I have tried, like a chunk of metal, and for the most part it is, lots of copper and alluminum, no space wasted. It takes and dissipates heat like no other light that I had.

S3 3d is noticeably brighter and has more throw compared to 219b. At lower levels it has somewhat warmer neutral tint, not too far from 219 b, but on high or turbo it becomes cooler/whiter, or at least it appears that way to me.

I plan on keeping both of them, I can't really decide which set of emitters I like more, I equally like the high cri of 219b and piercing white 3S 3D with better throw. 
I prefer stone gray to black, it is more unusual and feels grippier in hand. 

By the way ncr18650pf hold and run fine. Just make sure to get cells with at least 10 amp max discharge and buttons on the top, unless you want to solder your own.

I might post some pics and beamshots later.


----------



## Toolboxkid

Fireclaw18 said:


> I prefer the 4100K CREE 5A2 tint or 4D tint in either XPG2 or XPL.
> 
> To me my lights with those tints look much superior to my Nichia 219a and 219b. The 219 looks washed out compared to the warmer and much brighter Cree. And the difference in CRI (80 for the CREE and 90 for the 219) isn't nearly as noticeable as the tint.



Im with you on this. The m43 is my first 219. I really prefer the tint on my neutral white armytek much more which is 4000k I believe.


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## amaretto

updated my lumens/lux (cd) measurements:

all M43's with fully charged Keeppower IMR2500 high drain cells


----------



## plata0190

What's the real 219 model emitter used on the M43? here on topic 190 mr. Hank said he upgraded 219 nichia version with the new 5000k version *NVSW219B-V1-R90-E*.
Can somebody ask him what is the real model installed on new M43?


----------



## Giocomo

plata0190 said:


> What's the real 219 model emitter used on the M43? here on topic 190 mr. Hank said he upgraded 219 nichia version with the new 5000k version *NVSW219B-V1-R90-E*.
> Can somebody ask him what is the real model installed on new M43?


You just said it yourself which version is now used in the M43.


----------



## plata0190

Sorry I want to know what is the real version installed on my M43, because I'm not sure if it's the old or the new upgrade in. I bought the M43 the first weeks of release so there is the dubpt. 
I sent an email question to him but none reply, thus someone can ask him?


----------



## Giocomo

It's the one that you have written on the box, 219B for the old one 219B-V1 for the new one.


----------



## plata0190

Yes exactly Giocomo, on the box is written 219B 4790K, thus the new version is not installed as is estimated at 5000K and the name doesn't match, however imo lower temperature color 
I just have to know the complete emitter name to download its datasheet. On the Nichia site product list are a lot similar models, and the the first version installed on M43 that I own should be *this*, but I want just a confirmation. Can you ask mr. Hank?

The datasheet I posted doesn't include some data like CRI, color temperature and light wavelenght doesn't match a NW white temp: judding the graph it's referring more to a warm white emitter where wavelenght of blu light at 450nm is close to 0, and 610nm is high). Furthermore the model I'm referring (NVSA219B) if searched on google, it gives you strangley any result. What do you think? I choosed the wrong model


----------



## Giocomo

There are only 2 types of Nichia LEDs that you can see both labels online on the seller's website, both are the High CRI variants from Nichia.

Old:
The Nichia NVSL219BT R85 in SW45
http://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/products/led/NVSL219B-R85-E.pdf
http://intl-outdoor.com/images/barenichia_02.jpg

New:
The Nichia NVSW219B-V1 R90 in SW50
http://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/products/led/NVSW219B-V1-R90-E.pdf
http://intl-outdoor.com/images/219BT-V1.jpg

SW45 means the LEDs are rated from 4260K to 4745K and SW50 are rated from 4745K to 5310K. Official data which we know generally does not match reality, the SW45 in the NVSL219BT is notorious to being almost 5000K. 

Basically based on the 219B text on the box, you have the first LED.


----------



## plata0190

Thank you, color temperature on my NVSL219BT R85 in SW45 is a bit less than 5000K comparing to my SX25L3 and MM15 abd about the same as my TN36 NW, thus 4800K. Data written about 5000K on the website is an extremely generic value, furthermore there are other variations regarding the color temperature as SW40, SW45, SW50m, etc. But Mr. Hank knows what is the exact "color temperature" of the emitter used in the M43.

Do you know what differents are from NVSL219BT and the new NVSL219BT-V1?
Than the NVSL219BT R85 in SW45 that is probably used in my M43 is not listed here. Can you find it please?


----------



## Giocomo

plata0190 said:


> Thank you, color temperature on my NVSL219BT R85 in SW45 is a bit less than 5000K comparing to my SX25L3 and MM15 abd about the same as my TN36 NW, thus 4800K. Data written about 5000K on the website is an extremely generic value, furthermore there are other variations regarding the color temperature as SW40, SW45, SW50m, etc. But Mr. Hank knows what is the exact "color temperature" of the emitter used in the M43.


You see the photo label of SW50, what extremely generic value are you talking about? it is SW50 on the label, read it. The other LED has SW45 written on the label.
Again read the label photos I have posted and do not imagine things, the labels are clear as day. Or if you don't understand how to read them then don't make remarks like that. 






plata0190 said:


> Do you know what differents are from NVSL219BT and the new NVSL219BT-V1?


But there is no NVSL219BT-V1 used and the question is ambiguous. That being said the major improvement is the V1 has minimum CRI 90 while the old one has minimum CRI 85. Also the V1 does not have SW45 anymore. 



plata0190 said:


> Than the NVSL219BT R85 in SW45 that is probably used in my M43 is not listed here. Can you find it please?


I already gave you the link to the LED datasheet, it is of course not listed anymore as it has been replaced with the V1.


----------



## alpg88

even the greatest design can be ruined by a single, and what it looks like minor detail. this is it. http://forum.fonarevka.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=135779&d=1429667348 i just hope it is a first batch issue. easy to fix, if you know it is there and not afraid to take it apart.


----------



## Giocomo

I would guess that is only the review sample, of course any assumption of any sort is not factual.


----------



## markr6

alpg88 said:


> even the greatest design can be ruined by a single, and what it looks like minor detail. this is it. http://forum.fonarevka.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=135779&d=1429667348 i just hope it is a first batch issue. easy to fix, if you know it is there and not afraid to take it apart.



What is that? Website won't open for me.


----------



## plata0190

Sorry for my bad english. I'm referring the 5000K temperature indicated on the NVSW219B-V1 page. It's ambiguous because as you told me, the color temp changes from 4745K to 5310K in SW50 range. Got it? 

So regarding differences between old and new version, the two majour aspects are the increse in the temp color and in the CRI value. In this case imo a warmer tint is the best choise, where a difference of only 5 CRI will not be noticeable, and maybe not even visible.

What I don't know is the color temperature on NVSW219B emitter in the M43. There is a way to know it, by another code or depends by the manufacturing of the emitter?

Thank you


----------



## alpg88

markr6 said:


> What is that? Website won't open for me.



it is detailed review by inferion, the guy who designed driver, if i'm not mistaken, here is full review http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=27458


----------



## Giocomo

plata0190 said:


> Sorry for my bad english. I'm referring the 5000K temperature indicated on the NVSW219B-V1 page. It's ambiguous because as you told me, the color temp changes from 4745K to 5310K in SW50 range. Got it?



That is the way most LED are sold, there is a tolerance. If someone makes a couple of tests can test their exact value of the batch they have, another batch can be different. But don't forget that color temperature changes with drive current, so this sort of rating can be rated in many ways and still be correct.




plata0190 said:


> So regarding differences between old and new version, the two majour aspects are the increse in the temp color and in the CRI value. In this case imo a warmer tint is the best choise, where a difference of only 5 CRI will not be noticeable, and maybe not even visible.


Between the variants in the M43 that is correct. 



plata0190 said:


> What I don't know is the color temperature on NVSW219B emitter in the M43. There is a way to know it, by another code or depends by the manufacturing of the emitter?
> 
> Thank you


http://intl-outdoor.com/images/219BT-V1.jpg
Look at the Nichia label image it is SW50 tint, so according to datasheet ratings: 4745K to 5310K. 
But that is not the one you have.


----------



## Giocomo

alpg88 said:


> it is detailed review by inferion, the guy who designed driver, if i'm not mistaken, here is full review http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=27458


He got the first testing models before anyone, it if matters to anything.


----------



## carl

Seattle Sparky said:


> Recieved my second M43 with s3 3d black body today, the first one is stone gray 219b that I got a few weeks ago impressed me enough to order a second one.
> 
> The light feels in the hand like no other I have tried, like a chunk of metal, and for the most part it is, lots of copper and alluminum, no space wasted. It takes and dissipates heat like no other light that I had.
> 
> S3 3d is noticeably brighter and has more throw compared to 219b. At lower levels it has somewhat warmer neutral tint, not too far from 219 b, but on high or turbo it becomes cooler/whiter, or at least it appears that way to me.
> 
> I plan on keeping both of them, I can't really decide which set of emitters I like more, I equally like the high cri of 219b and piercing white 3S 3D with better throw.
> I prefer stone gray to black, it is more unusual and feels grippier in hand.
> 
> By the way ncr18650pf hold and run fine. Just make sure to get cells with at least 10 amp max discharge and buttons on the top, unless you want to solder your own.
> 
> I might post some pics and beamshots later.



Thank you for posting your observations. Some close-up photos of the 'stone white' anodize look pebble-like to me. Maybe the surface is rougher that way?

I'm trying to decide between the S3-3D NW and the S4-2D CW versions. I like white light on low mode - not brown, yellow, green, or blue. On high, it doesn't matter to me what tint it is since it will be so bright, my eyes probably won't be able to tell any tint differences - my night vision is rather poor. 

Does anyone have any suggestions based on my preference on low mode? Choices, choices...


----------



## plata0190

I wrote on the next post


----------



## markr6

alpg88 said:


> it is detailed review by inferion, the guy who designed driver, if i'm not mistaken, here is full review http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=27458



I'll have to check it out at home. My work webfilter must think that .ru is some crazy russian porn or something!


----------



## carl

How many people designed the M43 or different parts of it? Hank, Inferion, and ....


----------



## plata0190

I heard that the blue light (with a wavelenght around 440 and 460nm) emitted by these LEDs is dangerous to the body and eyes. The blue light is included in a white light (because RGB are needed to produce white), but can considerably be lower as the color temp is lower. For example CREE released a emitters database where for each LED is specified a risk group. Aproximately all coolwhite diodes have the risk group 1 and neither of neutral and warm have risks. Of course warmer is the temperature, less risks are.

Is it true?



Regarding nichia emitter versions, I don't understand how M43 first nichia emitter (NVSL219BT) has min 85CRI and the emitter used on Eagletac MX25L3 that uses the same or an older version of 219B has 92CRI?


----------



## carl

I suspect the danger is only when light in those wavelengths are directed at the eye straight-on. Unless you look directly at the LED, I don't think there is any need to worry. And no one looks directly at the LED anyway, right? 

This may be why we do not see many people on this forum complaining of permanent and significant eye damage from their LED flashlight under normal use. 

As for the specific LED in your unit, we should keep in mind that the LEDs used in any light are bound to change all the time since newer bin LEDs are always being released or the original LEDs are used up by the light manufacturerer and they have to resort to whatever LED they can buy at the moment to keep production going. For the M43, there have been at least 2 LED changes due to availability, etc. already. As soon as we buy one unit, another change will happen. 

The only time we won't see many changes in LED is if we are looking at a Maglite or a Surefire, lol! And on those stable brands, people are always complaining they take too long to change and update the LEDs to the newer bins. 

This is the human condition: we are usually never completely 100% happy with our purchase, and during the few times we are, we eventually get bored with it anyway.


----------



## RollerBoySE

plata0190 said:


> Regarding nichia emitter versions, I don't understand how M43 first nichia emitter (NVSL219BT) has min 85CRI and the emitter used on Eagletac MX25L3 that uses the same or an older version of 219B has 92CRI?



According to the spec. sheets the older LED is min. 85 and 92 typical. 
The new version is min. 90 and 93 typical.


----------



## carl

tonkem said:


> For the money, I can only think of one other non custom light that would come close, but still fall short, but for alot more money. That is the Lupine Betty TL2 at 4500 lumens, with thermal regulation, and a proprietary battery. So, for the money, in my mind, this light is a steal. I ordered the XP-G2 S2 version for the 70k cd. It shipped today from Mountain Elec, hope to have early next week. Will compare to the 6330, Lupine Betty TL-s (only 2600 lumens)... and let all know my impressions. I am by no means a reviewer, but will do my best to give an unbiased opinion against the aforementioned lights.



Hi tonkem, Did you get your light? What do you think?


----------



## markr6

Where are all the photos of this thing? I would have figured the mtnelectonics orders would have hit US destination within a couple days after they were in stock and purchased.


----------



## markr6

Seattle Sparky said:


> Recieved my second M43 with s3 3d black body today, the first one is stone gray 219b that I got a few weeks ago impressed me enough to order a second one.



I was having an impossible time deciding between these two, so I gave up. Plus, the 3D has been out of stock and not even available from mtnelectronics. If the 3D tint becomes available again, I may consider trying one.

How floody is the Nichia? Could you either compare it to another light you have or take a beamshot? Thanks!


----------



## twistedraven

How did the Eagletac work out for you markr6?


----------



## 18650

plata0190 said:


> I heard that the blue light (with a wavelenght around 440 and 460nm) emitted by these LEDs is dangerous to the body and eyes. The blue light is included in a white light (because RGB are needed to produce white), but can considerably be lower as the color temp is lower. For example CREE released a emitters database where for each LED is specified a risk group. Aproximately all coolwhite diodes have the risk group 1 and neither of neutral and warm have risks. Of course warmer is the temperature, less risks are. Is it true? Regarding nichia emitter versions, I don't understand how M43 first nichia emitter (NVSL219BT) has min 85CRI and the emitter used on Eagletac MX25L3 that uses the same or an older version of 219B has 92CRI?


 Have you been hanging around the fixed lighting forum? No one will notice a 5 CRI difference either.


----------



## carl

markr6 said:


> Where are all the photos of this thing? I would have figured the mtnelectonics orders would have hit US destination within a couple days after they were in stock and purchased.



There are a lot more photos and beamshots on BLF - Google 'BLF M43' and go to the "New: the Noctigon Meteor M43 (expected: March 2015 ..." thread. Forum members from taschenlampen-forum.de (Germany) and fonarekva.ru (Russia) are there - I think one of the guys from one of the overseas sites designed the driver so there is a lot more input from those other forums members at BLF, not just mostly USA customers like here on CPF. If you want to see photos don't go to the "Noctigon Meteor M43 official sales and discussion thread" - it doesn't have too many photos.


----------



## amaretto

carl said:


> I'm trying to decide between the S3-3D NW and the S4-2D CW versions. I like white light on low mode ...
> Does anyone have any suggestions based on my preference on low mode? Choices, choices...





markr6 said:


> I was having an impossible time deciding between these two, so I gave up. Plus, the 3D has been out of stock and not even available from mtnelectronics.
> 
> How floody is the Nichia? Could you either compare it to another light you have or take a beamshot? Thanks!



taken from TLF forum:

comparison in Low-mode:







here with the missing XP-L dedomed version:





beamshot-comparison on turbo:







The Nichia-version has the most floody beam pattern of all M43.


----------



## markr6

Thanks! I do believe I've seen those shots before now that I think of it. That 3D looks perfect, but still thinking about that Nichia for the flood. I just got the Eagtac MX25L3C Nichia which is great, but still wanting something with more flood.


----------



## carl

Amaretto,
thank you for posting the beamshots - the XP-L is the new one. A bit green as expected for a dedome on low mode but not bad.

On your findings, the S3-3D had slightly more lux than the S4-2B but on Hank's site the S4-2B had greater cd than the S3-3D. Both are pretty close though. I assume both Lux and cd mean 'throw' and this means both have about the same amount of throw but the S4-2B has overall greater output.


----------



## Glenn7

amaretto said:


> taken from TLF forum:
> 
> 
> here with the missing XP-L dedomed version:



:green: Greeeeen  Green just like the tree trunks in one of the photos taken - Oh well green is good for nigh vision.....


----------



## tonkem

carl said:


> Hi tonkem, Did you get your light? What do you think?



I received the M43 XPG s2 dedomed. The light is the brightest and has the most throw of any of my lights. I took it out and compared to the zebralight 6330, Lupine Betty TLs (2600 lumens). No comparison. The m43 blows them both away. The hot spot is tighter and much more intense then the lupine or the 6330. The color is a bit more neutral in color then I like as I am more of a cool white guy, but I love this light. Quality is far beyond the zebralight, which in comparison, feels cheep. The lupine is much lighter then both the 6330 and m43, but the feel of the m43 is definitely beefy and heavier than both. 

My son loves the light but wanted more of a flood, so I ordered him the s4 cool white version. Took the s4 and s2 out and the s2 is more intense and throws a bit farther since the hotspot is more concentrated then the s4. The Lupine has a similar beam to the s4 but the hotspot is larger and more intense on the m43 since it is almost 3 times brighter than the lupine. 

My son does not know he has this new light yet. It will replace the 6330 for him. I took the 6330 back into my collection, keeping my lupine herd company. 

Will take some photos of all lights, at some point.


----------



## tonkem

carl said:


> Thank you for posting your observations. Some close-up photos of the 'stone white' anodize look pebble-like to me. Maybe the surface is rougher that way?
> 
> I'm trying to decide between the S3-3D NW and the S4-2D CW versions. I like white light on low mode - not brown, yellow, green, or blue. On high, it doesn't matter to me what tint it is since it will be so bright, my eyes probably won't be able to tell any tint differences - my night vision is rather poor.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions based on my preference on low mode? Choices, choices...



S4 is definitely white on low, but only have the s2 to compare.


----------



## carl

tonkem, thank you for your comparisons and observations. Very helpful. Your son should be very happy. Although he doesn't know about his new toy yet, he must know something is 'up' since his S6330 is 'gone'. I guess it is an early Christmas for him!

Just a few more questions:

1) Is there much green with the S2-1D DD on low mode? Does it look like either the XP-L DD on low or the S2-1D DD on low in post #331 above?
2) Are the rings in the S2-1D DD beam very noticeable indoors?
3) Does the S4-2D CW have some semi-decent throw or is it all flood? 
4) Which one of the two do you prefer for general overall use, both indoors and outdoors? I can't afford both, lol!
Thank you again!


----------



## plata0190

I'll keep my M43 with nichia 219B, but there is online some beamshot comparison with the new 219B-V1?


----------



## tonkem

carl said:


> tonkem, thank you for your comparisons and observations. Very helpful. Your son should be very happy. Although he doesn't know about his new toy yet, he must know something is 'up' since his S6330 is 'gone'. I guess it is an early Christmas for him!
> 
> Just a few more questions:
> 
> 1) Is there much green with the S2-1D DD on low mode? Does it look like either the XP-L DD on low or the S2-1D DD on low in post #331 above?
> 2) Are the rings in the S2-1D DD beam very noticeable indoors?
> 3) Does the S4-2D CW have some semi-decent throw or is it all flood?
> 4) Which one of the two do you prefer for general overall use, both indoors and outdoors? I can't afford both, lol!
> Thank you again!



#1, there is definitely noticeable tint differences on low on the s2 dd, and next to my zebralight sc62 CW you can tell it leans toward green. 
#2, there are rings on the s2, but I am used to having a somewhat different beam, with the way the Lupines beams look. Compared to the S4, the beam is more narrow and has a ring around the outside of the main hotspot area, but it is not an issue for me, for the aforementioned reason (Lupines do this too)
#3, the s4 throws around the same as the Betty TL-S, but much brighter. I took the S2 and S4 out and the throw is comparable between the 2, but the S2 throws a bit farther, with a smaller hotspot. The S4 lights up everything in front of you for a decent distance. It is comparable to the way the Betty's beam is, but definitely throws better then the Betty, only because of the brightness difference. 
#4, having the Betty to use, I prefer the S2, since I primarily purchased the M43 for the 70,000 candela rating, not for the beam color or other factors. Being that I am not a HUGE fan of any light that is not cool white, I asked Richard if I could exchange for the S4, after comparing it to the S4, as I had not received the S4 yet. After comparing the 2, the S4 was too much like the Betty for me to warrant keeping it for myself. The S2 just fills a void in my flashlight lineup, as I don't have a decent thrower, so this one takes the place of a dedicated thrower for me. The only light that I have that I would consider a thrower, is my Surefire E1L-A. 

Hopefully that helps some. 

Here are some comparison photos, taken with an iPhone 6.
Left to right: Meteor S2, Zebralight S6330, Lupine Wilma TL, Lupine Betty TL-S















Meteor on Lowest setting on Left and Zebralight on high Low setting on right







Meteor on left on about I would guess 1000 lumens, and Betty TL-S on right at about 500 lumens


----------



## carl

tonkem - a big big THANK YOU! Great photos and helpful comments. 

Using what you said, I'm going with the S4 Cool White version (stone white HA finish when it becomes available). For me, the definition of cool white isn't like it used to be back in the old days when LEDs were an 'angry', harsh blue. Nowadays, a standard Cool White offering in a high-end light usually is much closer to neutral - at least to my eyes. It also makes objects 'jump out' at me more than warm tints so i can visually detect those objects better. Sure, its slightly harsher on the eyes than warm white but I just turn down the brightness a bit and its fine. For me, visual detection of an object in the dark is first priority and color rendition is second. 

I'm sure your post will help many others in making their choice too. Thanks again!


BTW, what a lineup - your lights are in great shape too!

Edit: I keep going between the S4-2D CW and the S3-3D NW version....the S3 is only supposed to be about 300 lumens less than the S4 but in the comparison photos of Amaretto, the CW version looks way brighter than just 300 lumens more - like 800-1000 lumens more.


----------



## markr6

So are the LG HE2 cells the ones to use? I was thinking about the LG MH1 cells for 3200mAh capacity, but I always plan to recharge above 3.7v or so. So I'm not sure it's really worth getting cells with more capacity, but less output at the top end. Am I looking at this the right way?


----------



## chuckhov

Mark,

Look at HkJ's comparator here:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php

Looks like MH1 at lower levels and HE2/4 at max output.

I have the LG MH1 for my Fenix BC30, and for that I can find no better, but then that light is low-drain.

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## markr6

I've been using HKJs comparator a lot and still can't decide. Looks like this M43 wants 7.5A. HE4 seems hard to beat, but the Keeppower 2500 looks like it may out-do it. I have one of those but would need to get 4 fresh cells which is OK; not too expensive.


----------



## chuckhov

Mark,

All of life is a compromise, so for the M43 perhaps you should take a look at the new Efest 18650 35A 2800mAh?

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index...oduct_id=522&sort=p.price&order=ASC&limit=100

They're too new to really tell much about them, but look to cut it right down the middle to me.

I'm just in this thread for the interest, as I just can't afford this light right now.

Have a Great Day,
-Chuck


----------



## Rod911

markr6 said:


> So are the LG HE2 cells the ones to use? I was thinking about the LG MH1 cells for 3200mAh capacity, but I always plan to recharge above 3.7v or so. So I'm not sure it's really worth getting cells with more capacity, but less output at the top end. Am I looking at this the right way?



I ended up getting MH1 cells with my one and they are so much better than the NCR18650BE cells (unprotected) I used before the MH1 cells arrived. With the MH1, the light is visibly brighter on turbo *and* it gets hot quicker than using NCR18650BE cells. To get that maximum light output it probably does need even more high drain cells than the MH1, but, IMHO, I think it's negligible.

I've tested the light with NCR18650PF (not as good as the MH1 according to the graphs) and some older AW18650 cells and I couldn't tell the difference between these other high drain cells against the MH1.

The MH1s are cheap and has a high capacity. I think it's a better cell than the HE2 if your intended use it to use the light more often in its high/sub-high modes rather than keeping it on turbo at all times. If you are planning to use turbo more often, then the higher drain cell of the HE2 is a better option.


----------



## markr6

Thanks. I don't think I'll be using turbo a lot, especially since we already talking about the relatively low capacity of 2500mAh to begin with. I considered the 3200mAh cells, like the MH1 you mentioned. I will probably end up going with those for the longer runtime...either plan blue or the Keeppower version.


----------



## carl

If you're going with the LG MH1, you might want to consider the next gen LG MJ1 (generic green wrapper). It has higher capacity (3500mAh vs 3200mAh) and lower internal resistance (28mOhm vs 35mOhm). No big differences but still... Anyway, just a thought. 

I have some MJ1 coming from NKON.nl in the Netherlands (my first time dealing with Mr Kon). They are flat tops (no button tops) but a fair price at less than $5 each. Shipping costs are reasonable and others here seem to like dealing with NKON.nl. The owner is reportedly a techie himself, does his own testing on batts, and is a decent small business dealer - according to a BLF member who stops by occasionally at NKON to pick up his batts in-person. If you are in the USA, you can click their link to the non-VAT site for cheaper prices.

European customers: http://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size.html

Non VAT customers: http://ru.nkon.nl/

Edit: Ordered the MJ1 on June 7 and received them June 15 using NKON's regular shipping option - that's fast!


----------



## Giocomo

carl said:


> If you're going with the LG MH1, you might want to consider the next gen LG MJ1 (generic green wrapper). It has higher capacity (3500mAh vs 3200mAh) and lower internal resistance (28mOhm vs 35mOhm). No big differences but still... Anyway, just a thought.



The lower the internal resistance the more capacity will be available at useful voltage range (not at useless 3.0-2.5V range), so it is a considerable difference when you decide which to buy and don't already have any cells like that.


----------



## markr6

FINALLY decided on batteries for this guy! I just ordered the Samsung 25 R2 from mtnelectronics. From the picture it looks like they're the older blue wrapped cells. The newer green ones (R25 R5) supposedly have a lower resistance and longer life cycle, but I don't think the difference is big enough to worry about.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

markr6 said:


> FINALLY decided on batteries for this guy! I just ordered the Samsung 25 R2 from mtnelectronics. From the picture it looks like they're the older blue wrapped cells. The newer green ones (R25 R5) supposedly have a lower resistance and longer life cycle, but I don't think the difference is big enough to worry about.



HKJ's test of both iterations shows that they both have the same calculated I.R. of .04 ohms, so they're even there.

His testing also shows that with his two samples of the cyan (blue) wrapped 25Rs, there is a slight deviation between them, so the plots are off a bit compared to the green wrappers (newer variants,) which track perfectly in his plots.

The cyan cells generally hold a higher voltage than the greens, although it's not a huge difference.

Chris


----------



## carl

International Outdoor has more Dark Grey in stock but no Stone White, doggone it.


----------



## Fireclaw18

Apparently this light produces ridiculous lumens if you replace the LEDs with the new high-intensity CREE XPLs from Mouser.

Cut and pasted post from Dale on the other flashlight forum:

________________

"CRAZY ALERT! The Noctigon Meteor M43 is capable of ludicrous insane output. I tried slicing the domes off some XP-L emitters all in the 3D tint class, in an effort to mimmick the new flat emitter from Cree, the XP-L H1. That didn’t work so well, so I put the XP-G2 S4 2B’s back in it and was living happily ever after. But today, the 12 XP-L H1’s in 5700K tint arrived from Mouser. So, like a madman I rushed to pull emitters and re-flow these slick looking new one’s on. I did NOTHING else! (ok, new 10507 optics all around, but that is all)

With my 4 Efest 35A button tops sitting at 4.15V rested, this monster did *12,113 lumens* at start in Turbo!!! Yes, insanity grand central! *At about 20 seconds it was getting super hot, still making 10,381 lumens*. 

H2 (High, level 2) does 7141 lumens H1 (High, level 1) does 1735 lumens. 
L2 (Low, level 2) works nicely (didn’t test it in the box in my excitement) but L1 might not come on once the light is hot. It works when the light is cooled or if shifted from L2 to L1, but not necessarily from off with a hot light.
This little thing will make a double garage sized room daylight!




Freaky, seriously freaky intense amount of white light!
Thought y’all might like to know.




And, for the record… reflowing new emitters onto the big copper board with solder already in place is kinda tricky. The sets of 3 are in series, if one doesn’t make good contact the whole set of 3 won’t work. Ask me how I know…





"


----------



## ChrisGarrett

Yeah, I read his post over there. 20 seconds on Turbo before it gets super hot, probably isn't all that useful, nor practical. That's pulling some amperes. I guess if you want to be the life of the party, this is the light for you?

Chris


----------



## markr6

ChrisGarrett said:


> Yeah, I read his post over there. 20 seconds on Turbo before it gets super hot, probably isn't all that useful, nor practical. That's pulling some amperes. I guess if you want to be the life of the party, this is the light for you?
> 
> Chris



My exact same thoughts Chris. Nothing against having fun and testing new things, but I didn't even bother looking at that post. The M43 is already pushing it hard, and I hope I find it practical as is.


----------



## Giocomo

If the thermal transfer is good then of course the light gets hot fast, the better it is the faster is it.
Don't want heat don't use the Turbo and use only High.


----------



## thedoc007

Giocomo said:


> If the thermal transfer is good then of course the light gets hot fast, the better it is the faster is it.
> Don't want heat don't use the Turbo and use only High.



Except the high mode is also 7000+ lumens. Still going to get hot quite quickly. And if you drop it down one more mode, you are at 1735 lumens - and you don't need an expensive modded light for that. Also the low mode was erratic after the mods, once it got hot, so I wonder how reliable the new setup is going to be.

I'm glad he tested it, but I think a lot of people wouldn't find it as useful as the stock version. Just my $.02.


----------



## StudFreeman

thedoc007 said:


> Except the high mode is also 7000+ lumens. Still going to get hot quite quickly. And if you drop it down one more mode, you are at 1735 lumens - and you don't need an expensive modded light for that. Also the low mode was erratic after the mods, once it got hot, so I wonder how reliable the new setup is going to be.
> 
> I'm glad he tested it, but I think a lot of people wouldn't find it as useful as the stock version. Just my $.02.



I think the erratic behavior was due to poor grounding. He forgot to tighten one of 2 ground screws.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

Giocomo said:


> If the thermal transfer is good then of course the light gets hot fast, the better it is the faster is it.
> Don't want heat don't use the Turbo and use only High.



Sorry, but if you're playing 'hot potato' with your fancy new $300 light after only 20 seconds, then I'm thinking that it really has limited use on that level. At least with my modified SupFire M6, I've got 60 seconds on turbo and can go three-four cycles before it's too uncomfortable to hold without gloves.

Nobody has to justify their whims and desires to me, as it's their money, so they can buy/mod whatever makes them happy, but there comes a point of diminishing returns, at least for me.

Chris


----------



## ChrisGarrett

StudFreeman said:


> I think the erratic behavior was due to poor grounding. He forgot to tighten one of 2 ground screws.



Yeah, he fixed the problem and was getting consistent 12,000+ lumens at 'turn-on' and with freshly charged cells.

Chris


----------



## Fireclaw18

ChrisGarrett said:


> Yeah, he fixed the problem and was getting consistent 12,000+ lumens at 'turn-on' and with freshly charged cells.
> 
> Chris



Yup. And he posted updated beamshots on BLF today. It really does appear to be getting 12,000 lumens. He has beamshots comparing it to his 10,000 lumen 3xMTG2 BTU Shocker and his M43 is brighter.

I'm undecided if I want to do the same mod to my M43. I've got a stock one with XPG2 dedomed. I've measured it at 93,000 lux at turn-on. In contrast, Dale's light with high intensity XPL gets twice the lumens but only 57,000 lux.


----------



## stateoftheart

Just pulled the trigger on non messed about with XP-G2 S3 3D


----------



## chuckhov

^^^

Nice! - If I were to get one it would be the 3D.

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## stateoftheart

Just did a lot of research on cells and after much deliberation I feel the best value cells ATM are the NCR18650GA Sanyos 3500ah 32US 4 pack as fasttech and the RCR123 Nitecore NL-166 at fastech too, along with the MC1 plus and VP2 XStar chargers along with a few pills (sportac 2 level triple nichia)and Solarforce L2 bodies. Love what solarforce are offering at the moment 2 HAIII L2s for 31 dollars bargain. The black have special bronze type coating on the inside.


----------



## stateoftheart

Stone white back in stock


----------



## Toolboxkid

So I had my m43 nichia out on the beach last night amongst many other fine lights. But the m43 got the most attention, people kept asking me where I got it. A real attention getter! Plus it's great for locating fish and sea shells!


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## markr6

stateoftheart said:


> Just did a lot of research on cells and after much deliberation I feel the best value cells ATM are the NCR18650GA Sanyos 3500ah 32US 4 pack as fasttech



I wonder if they will work in the M43 though. Button tops are required or a raised top. And they're 65mm, not the required 66.6mm to 68.8mm. The only button top I can find is the protected version. But I'm sure they'll be around soon.

Personally I don't like the magnet or solder option, but I guess that would work.


----------



## carl

Some articles say rare-earth magnet material is not a good conductor. However, the magnets are usually plated with nickel - which does conduct electricity. The question is, how well do the plated magnets conduct electricity under high-current conditions?

Also, most button-tops are spot-welded to an existing flat top battery. The spot weld is usually a small area, probably no more than a few millimeters in diameter.


----------



## carl

Toolboxkid said:


> So I had my m43 nichia out on the beach last night amongst many other fine lights. But the m43 got the most attention, people kept asking me where I got it. A real attention getter! Plus it's great for locating fish and sea shells!



Don't tell too many people - I'm still saving up for this light, lol!


----------



## Toolboxkid

carl said:


> Don't tell too many people - I'm still saving up for this light, lol!



I kept it a secret don't worry. By the way, you won't regret it! I've decided to sell most of my other large lights and keep this one.


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## Giocomo

carl said:


> Some articles say rare-earth magnet material is not a good conductor. However, the magnets are usually plated with nickel - which does conduct electricity. The question is, how well do the plated magnets conduct electricity under high-current conditions?
> 
> Also, most button-tops are spot-welded to an existing flat top battery. The spot weld is usually a small area, probably no more than a few millimeters in diameter.



Nickel plating is done standard in 5μm, so that is far from any real conductance. 

There are enough button cells on the market, NCR18650GA are still not cells to fit your M43 with, they are not high drain cells.


----------



## markr6

Toolboxkid said:


> I kept it a secret don't worry. By the way, you won't regret it! I've decided to sell most of my other large lights and keep this one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums



I hope I feel the same way! I have a Nichia 219 version coming. Does the beam compare with anything else you have? Very floody or a mix of flood throw? Any noticable hotspot or a wall of light?


----------



## Toolboxkid

markr6 said:


> I hope I feel the same way! I have a Nichia 219 version coming. Does the beam compare with anything else you have? Very floody or a mix of flood throw? Any noticable hotspot or a wall of light?



It is worlds different from my tm26, There is a slight hotspot when I do a ceiling bounce but overall this is a great flooder. It's my first 219 so nothing similar to compare with, but I'd choose this version again. It's very small and color is great, very useful floody beam.


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## markr6

Toolboxkid said:


> It is worlds different from my tm26, There is a slight hotspot when I do a ceiling bounce but overall this is a great flooder. It's my first 219 so nothing similar to compare with, but I'd choose this version again. It's very small and color is great, very useful floody beam.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums



Thanks! I have an EagleTac MX25L3C with Nichia 219...great light!! But I am still looking for a flooder so this may be it. BTW I will be trying some diffuser materials on the MX25L3C, but I know the M43 will still kill it in output!


----------



## carl

Giocomo said:


> Nickel plating is done standard in 5μm, so that is far from any real conductance.



Yes, that is a very thin coating. People use magnets for recharging a battery which is fine but only for recharging batteries since most rechargers are running around 500mA. However, 500mA is a very low number for actually operating a multi-LED light on turbo or high or medium output modes.


----------



## Fireclaw18

markr6 said:


> I hope I feel the same way! I have a Nichia 219 version coming. Does the beam compare with anything else you have? Very floody or a mix of flood throw? Any noticable hotspot or a wall of light?



I wonder how the Nichia version compares. 

Mine is the XPG2 dedomed version. On 4 fresh Efest 35A cells my luxmeter records 102k lux at turn-on, but that drops fairly fast to 93k. Still seems much higher than the manufacturer rating though.


----------



## tobrien

I've really been considering the Nichia 219 version too. Do I need it? No... but there might come a time I _do_! haha

I can't imagine how awesome it must be to see that many 219s on full blast.


----------



## markr6

tobrien said:


> I've really been considering the Nichia 219 version too. Do I need it? No... but there might come a time I _do_! haha
> 
> I can't imagine how awesome it must be to see that many 219s on full blast.



I can't wait to compare with my MX25L3C Nichia 219. Most would consider that a floody light, but it's still a thrower IMO...just a BIG hotspot like the PD32UE, but not a "flooder". I'm hoping the M43 gets it just right for me. Looking at the beamshots, I believe it will!


----------



## more_vampires

Any chance of this XPL setup available as stock? I enjoy lights with less than 2 minutes burst time before they become branding irons.

More of an energy blaster, less of a useful lighting tool. It's what I like, though.


----------



## stateoftheart

markr6 said:


> I wonder if they will work in the M43 though. Button tops are required or a raised top. And they're 65mm, not the required 66.6mm to 68.8mm. The only button top I can find is the protected version. But I'm sure they'll be around soon.
> 
> Personally I don't like the magnet or solder option, but I guess that would work.





They are raised tops if you look at photos.....more raised than the LG MJ1 that are recommended for use.


----------



## stateoftheart

Giocomo said:


> Nickel plating is done standard in 5μm, so that is far from any real conductance.
> 
> There are enough button cells on the market, NCR18650GA are still not cells to fit your M43 with, they are not high drain cells.



Hi there why not they are 10A max discharge 3500mah (minimum) with an awesome high voltage flat discharge curve. The meteor only draws 8A at the tailcap maximum. I thought they were perfect for discharge and capacity.


----------



## stateoftheart

Just did a bit of research and the reason they need to be button top is to make contact with the meteors large brass circular anode ring in the head as its flat. You will see the NCR18650GA whilst being a flat top so to speak is a raised OEM flat top and have max 12A discharge which is more than enough for max output of the meteor. The higher discharge batteries only advantage is you could possibly run 3 cells and get max output (as the cells parallel) but that doesn't interest me. I'm interested in runtime / max output. See picture and search for raised OEM flat tops. They look better actually as there is more of a raised surface area on the anode.
I'll let you know if they work and worst case scenario I'll get my soldering iron out and put a large bead on them or try and get another mil out of the springs . I do think the non flat top quote by manufacturer is because of the circular flat brass anode though so with the larger raised contact area of the NCR18650GA's I should be laughing all the way to the beach.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?399161-Sanyo-NCR18650GA-3-6V-(3500mAh-max-10A)

Awesome curve here

https://yunergybattery.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/10a-vs-lg-mj1.jpg

Other data 

Todays top 5 ebike performance cells at 10A continuous discharge:
1. Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA, 3.4Ah and 11.2Wh at 10A (down to 2.5V), 47 grams measured. 238Wh/kg at 10A. Measurement is here: https://yunergybattery.files.wordpress. ... lg-mj1.jpg
2. LG INR18650MJ1, 3.3Ah and 10.6Wh at 10A (down to 2.5V), 47 grams. 225 Wh/kg at 10A. Measurement is here: http://d112tss1dzpest.cloudfront.net/wp ... jpg?323d81
3. LG INR18650MH1, 3.2Ah and 10.1 Wh (down to 2.5V), 47 grams. 215Wh/kg at 10A. Measurement is here: download/file.php?id=169435
4. Panasonic NCR18650PF 2.8Ah and 9Wh at 10A (down to 2.5V), 46 grams. 195 Wh/kg at 10A. Measurement is here: http://www.dampfakkus.de/highamps/531-1 ... 8650PF.png
5. Samsung INR18650-35E. 2.4Ah and 7.7Wh at 10A (down to 2.5V), 48 grams. 160Wh/kg at 10A. Measurement is here, may be faulty (guilty untill it proves innocence, this is what we got): download/file.php?id=169435


----------



## Giocomo

stateoftheart said:


> Hi there why not they are 10A max discharge 3500mah (minimum) with an awesome high voltage flat discharge curve. The meteor only draws 8A at the tailcap maximum. I thought they were perfect for discharge and capacity.



8A is the output current at 10V, now the draw at the tail is much more higher like 26-28A.
A 10A max rated cell will not have a higher voltage on load than a 20A rated cell or higher, unless that cell is old.


----------



## Fireclaw18

Just because a cell is rated for 12A doesn't necessarily mean it can sustain high amp draw over its entire discharge cycle.

My understanding is the high discharge IMR cells tend to maintain higher output in the M43 when the cells are at lower voltages.


----------



## Giocomo

I doubt the NCR18650GA will make proper contact because they are so short, as short as like not having a raised top, just like other cells (65.3mm max). Even it makes tiny bit of contact you sill want pressure on the springs, otherise you move the light from side to side and one or all cell disconnect. Also ignore any capacity under 3.0V all these cells are rated down to 2.5V


----------



## stateoftheart

Fireclaw18 said:


> Just because a cell is rated for 12A doesn't necessarily mean it can sustain high amp draw over its entire discharge cycle.
> 
> My understanding is the high discharge IMR cells tend to maintain higher output in the M43 when the cells are at lower voltages.



It can and for longer look at the curves and data. This cell is rated nominal 3.6V so its better at sustaining the discharge at higher voltages.


----------



## stateoftheart

The manufacturer of the Meteor recommends 66.6mm it's only 1.6 mm less. The batteries can't move around that much. Anyhow I've sent Hank an email so see what he comes back with. Surely the springs can be modified to give another mil they are over 2 inches of copper, I'm not worried in the slightest however worst comes to worst I'll get solder out.

The problem stated by the manufacturer is cells that are too long will cause problems. I cant understand why though as the springs should have some play in them? If it was a twisty without springs I could understand?

These cells are the best high discharge cell available at the moment used in high capacity drills and ebikes so I don't see a problem. They can push 40A plus into the driver for longer than the said efest or other higher discharge low capacity cells.

From the discharge curves 4 cells can effectively pump out 40A solid for over 20 minutes to 3V. I'm happy with this for both high and runtime on the meteor.


----------



## Giocomo

1.6mm makes all the difference because of many reasons in such type of host, so don't take is so lightly, as I said you would not even figure out that at certain point 1 or more cells are not even in full contact, I am talking about a realistic randomness not constant lacking of contact.
The spring are not made from stainless steel so playing them will them is not a good idea as they don't have the same excellent "memory" feature as stainless steel springs.


----------



## stateoftheart

I understand your concern on the pressure fit of the cells. Im sure with any size cells it is still an issue on a light with springs and is sometimes used as an advantage as in tap the bottom for level change (Not in the case if the meteor though).

Let's see what pressure I'm getting when the Sheba's are in there and I'm tightening her up. If it's too little I'll perform a mod but at this moment its not an issue for me.

Let's also see what Hank at International Outdoor comes back with as well and I'll let you know what happens.

Its actually 65.3mm so I need another 1.3mm to be within the stated specs so I'm not going to lose sleep.

Also chaps let me know his long your high discharge cells will last at 10A discharge to 3V?.

And yes using magnets is an awful idea. A strong silver solder is the way to go.


----------



## Giocomo

I would wait until HKJ tests all the aforementioned cells, the testing procedure must be standardized (not all kind of tests from different sources) and also to be done by someone responsible that effectively understands that the setup must be identical for each test. So those aspects are very important when judging cells, not comparison various sources of unknown testing standards and non-identical setups.


As for the NCR18650GA being used for drills and ebikes.
These cells are very new, hardly they can already be used also so many cells have higher current capabilities that are used in tool, even the mere old INR18650-15M with 25A max.

Also keep in mind contact pressure also reduces resistance because we are talking about low voltage devices under 5V DC at ultra high currents, this is not a mains voltage type of device (110V-240V).


----------



## stateoftheart

Its the number one used cell for ebikes in Japan, high torque and capacity requirments. See reference I gave above. Sanyo / Panasonic are the market leader in rechargable battery packs for power tools and high current high capacity is what the market wants. 10A per cell is more ample when you are using battery backs with multiple higher (18V DC) cell format.

With the Sanyo INR18650GAs your getting a higher anode contact area than standard button top cells, see the picture above. I would say over 80% more so they may even be better suited to the low voltage parallel arrangement of the Meteor. Imagine that . Most protected cells use a 3-4mm rounded button (Orbtronic and even the ones International Outdoor recommend - link on the meteor sales page) whereas the Sanyos and most unprotected cells use around 7mm flat button. That's around 100% more anode contact area without even taking into consideration the resistance of any protection circuit involved. That's at minimum halved the contact resistance at anode compared to any protected cell hasn't it? That's one of the issues with heat buildup within the cell in protected cells and why I personally don't like them.

What cells are you using in your Meteor or what cells would you use Giocomo.

Last few weeks I have been speaking with battery suppliers in Europe and US and they have been tested by them, and really are one of the best cells out there at the moment above the LG MJ1 which is also a fantastic cell. They are stocked and used by major suppliers such as Orbtronic and Keeppower. 

This may be a good idea for people wanting to mod their flat top batteries. Solder a dremelled circular piece of copper on to them remembering to use enough flux, sand the areas, and the 3 second rule. Watcha think of the heat sink shim option?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/181369568082?nav=SEARCH

I'm sure you will agree the anode contact area on the Sanyos is staggeringly better (I'd say more than 300% without getting my scale rule out ?) and to be honest I think they have even increased it from the standard unprotected panas. You can see the protected cells minimal contact area too. So once you shimmy and nestle these into the Meteor with the large conductive brass anode in the head, the Sanyos will be figuratively very spicy indeed  They will however run much cooler not having the added resistance of the protection circuit and the larger contact anode. The INR is also safe chemistry so you don't need to worry about protection circuit, you just need to be wary of the discharge voltage doesn't go below 2.5V which the Meteor let's you know about anyhow with its voltage indicator......


----------



## stateoftheart

OK guys sorry for the long posts but I'm an electrical engineer and I like nitty gritty so here we go.

See below translation of M43 designers electrical characteristic write up Google translated.
---------------------------------------

Selection of the battery

Because of the high power and design features of the torch to the battery imposed certain requirements.

Mechanical features:

The battery must have a button-top (protruding positive contact), because bornier M43 has a mechanical protection against reverse polarity, does not permit electrical contact flat surface minus the battery contacts. By the length of the battery also imposed certain requirements. The design of the lamp is designed for protected batteries, so to have to stretch the spring force, and fear strikes the back of the lamp, which is why the batteries their weight can spring back to its original state. The problem with protected batteries is that they are not powerful enough for the lamp, so it makes sense to refine power cells themselves. However, not all require the maximum brightness. Weak batteries have a high capacity (currently 3400mAh, against 2000 in ... 2500mAh power) and allow a half-fold increase in working hours flashlight to frequently used modes. Lantern evaluate the possibility of such batteries and allows the use of a turbo without overloading it, so the use of weak batteries is allowed and does not lead to unreliable operation. And unlike they often have power and protection, and button-top.

Electrical features:

The program evaluates the load carrying capacity of its battery internal resistance, allowing the voltage dips in all chains (including spring lamp housing, contacts, etc.) to 0,5V. Resistance chains of the lamp, according to the terminal (see. "Terminal Mode"), about 4 mOhm, and the maximum supply current - 30A. Accordingly, the maximum internal resistance of the battery - (0.5V / 30A-0,004) * 4 = 0.05 Ohm. That this option is important when choosing batteries. Pay attention to him, and not on the maximum current stated by the manufacturer of the battery. This market value is not always the reality. Especially at Panasonic. And please note that this option is eventually degraded operation. And it degrades faster capacity.

The overall efficiency of the inverter, as well as the amount of capacity to effectively use the battery depends on the discharge characteristics of the battery. Choose batteries with the highest average voltage (3,7V and above), as at higher voltages, the driver operates efficiently.


----------



## stateoftheart

So following on with my electrical experience he's saying they need to have protruding anode so were good there. He's also saying that protected cells are a waste of time so we are good there. 

He says that the internal micro checks the internal resistance of the cells so you can basically use any. However to obtain the best turbo levels at maximum you need to achieve a voltage drop within 0.5 volts for the battery connecting circuit which then allows you to select a battery of 50mohms maximum internal resistance that can give 30/4 amps (7.5A per cell) over the discharge period down to say 3V. He is saying the driver operates more efficiently at around 3.7V and above so selecting a battery with nominal of 3.7V is better. The Sanyos I have been referring to have an internal resistance if 38mohms (full specification for the INR18650GA can be downloaded from NKON.nl site) , a nominal voltage of 3.6V and maximum discharge of 10A over a 20 minute period to about 2.8V. This means from using the INR18650GAs you would get about 30 minutes plus, on max turbo with no bottlenecks. I don't think any other battery out there can match this.

Refer to his statement on pay attention about not looking at the maximum current output of the battery from the manufacturers but the internal resistance value. 

I also found that mountain electronics stock the button top version at 67mm at a reasonable price - Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA 3500mAh - Button Top Unprotected

Please have a read of the CPF thread below which I posted before it gives quite a bit of insight into the current technology batteries in the arena and will give you a better understanding of these batteries and their performance.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?399161-Sanyo-NCR18650GA-3-6V-(3500mAh-max-10A)


----------



## stateoftheart

I am with you guys in trying to find the optimum way of using our lights in the spirit of CPF figuring things out together.

Been looking into the springs on the unit as I recall Vihn copper braiding the springs on certain models of his modded lights to allow for high current operation.

One of the senior members on BLF modded his M43 springs as with them being copper berilium under high load they tend to sag:-

---------------------

FWIW, I wire braided the springs on the tail mcpcb of my Meteor. To my recollection, the bronze phosphor or beryllium springs tend to sag with heat under load. There’s very little room in this light to accept any sag of the springs, so I put in wire bypasses to be on the safe side. Wink

Edit: I meant compressed, where I said sag. The bronze phosphor or beryllium springs will compress and become shorter under a load.

----------------------------------

I believe if done properly the resistance of the battery contact areas in the base of the light will be significantly reduced thus reducing any heat in the springs (the only part of the power circuit to have slight bottleneck in the current transfer) and possible sag. Reducing the overall voltage drop of the power source circuit will gain massive advantages in driver efficiency. As we know from the designers calculations he has stated that the overall power source circuit drops about 0.5V. On max output say 28.8A (about 7A per cell) this is about 14W of energy loss (as heat which is not good for batteries) so doing anything to limit the Voltage drop of the power source circuit will be beneficial to the overall efficiency of the light. The light uses say 100W on turbo (3.7V x 28.8A) so 14W lost as heat is significant say more than 10% overall power of the circuit. As the voltage is boosted after the driver these voltage drop losses become much less due to the higher voltage used and the solid electrical circuitry within the driver / MPCB.


I am not saying mod your meteor though as you will most probably lose your warranty but you could have a think about it.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?182607-Resistance-Fixes-to-ROP


----------



## Giocomo

stateoftheart said:


> Its the number one used cell for ebikes in Japan, high torque and capacity requirments. See reference I gave above. Sanyo / Panasonic are the market leader in rechargable battery packs for power tools and high current high capacity is what the market wants.



I have yet to find Panasonic brand in high current devices, I have found Samsung, LG, Sony and Sanyo, I have never found any industrial device using Panasonic cells. Panasonic always made weak cells in terms of ultra high current, only after their acquisition of Sanyo they started introducing some better cells which were still way being the high current capabilities of Samsung. The only devices were Panasonic cells can be found in large numbers is laptop battery packs where high current is not a requirement. 

Show me where the NCR18650GA is used today and where I can buy today one of those devices using it, otherwise such statement is unfortunately null to me. 

I do not care how many Chinese tests of various sources using various equipment exist on the internet, I am looking forward to HKJ's test where actual comparison can be made between test conducted by an attention to detail tester.


----------



## Giocomo

The beryllium springs are 45% IACS not 2% IACS like regular stainless steel springs
Vinh's improvements (springs with copper braid, sense resistor melding, etc) do not seem to do much when the stock is so good already.

Stock bounce: 1264
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/vinhnguyen54/20150519_122941_zpsnflvbs88.jpg
"boosted" bounce: 1349
http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/vinhnguyen54/20150519_122931_zps1vwhenrc.jpg
That is a 6.5% difference.


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## stateoftheart

Giocomo said:


> The beryllium springs are 45% IACS not 2% IACS like regular stainless steel springs
> Vinh's improvements (springs with copper braid, sense resistor melding, etc) do not seem to do much when the stock is so good already.
> 
> Stock bounce: 1264
> http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/vinhnguyen54/20150519_122941_zpsnflvbs88.jpg
> "boosted" bounce: 1349
> http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac323/vinhnguyen54/20150519_122931_zps1vwhenrc.jpg
> That is a 6.5% difference.



I know about the tensile strength of berilium but its a ~ 2mm CSA copper spring and its most certainly the bottleneck in the light (maybe 0.25-0.3V overall out of the designers 0.5V giving a considerable loss) however you want to put it. I plan to solder 3-4mm x 1.6mm round copper (tinned) slugs to the ends of the springs, and use three 2mm (Vihn only used one braid) braids around each spring interwoven to the base, so that it gives the spring extra stiffness on pressure. Overkill you may say but its extremely cheap to do and I enjoy a bit of soldering. Its 1.80 dollar for 20No. copper 20mmx20mmx1.6mm heat sink shims and 1 dollar for 1.5 metres of 2mm copper braid.

You were worried about the problem of impact on the light before so increasing the stiffness this way will stop the batteries compressing and losing connection at anode. For instance if you was running with it.

You say 6% for output that's great but not my main concern. By carrying out these small mods you would gain runtime with the increased driver efficiency and the light/batteries will not heat up as much this gaining longevity of the light and its components.

Also note that as the springs heat up under load they will become more resistive and as they become more resistive they will heat up again further with time. So its a vicious circle as with any increased resistance connection under high load.


----------



## Giocomo

stateoftheart said:


> I know about the tensile strength of berilium but its a ~ 2mm CSA copper spring and its most certainly the bottleneck in the light (maybe 0.25-0.3V overall out of the designers 0.5V giving a considerable loss) however you want to put it. I plan to solder 3-4mm x 1.6mm round copper (tinned) slugs to the ends of the springs, and use three 2mm (Vihn only used one braid) braids around each spring interwoven to the base, so that it gives the spring extra stiffness on pressure. Overkill you may say but its extremely cheap to do and I enjoy a bit of soldering. Its 1.80 dollar for 20No. copper 20mmx20mmx1.6mm heat sink shims and 1 dollar for 1.5 metres of 2mm copper braid.
> 
> You were worried about the problem of impact on the light before so increasing the stiffness this way will stop the batteries compressing and losing connection at anode. For instance if you was running with it.
> 
> You say 6% for output that's great but not my main concern. By carrying out these small mods you would gain runtime with the increased driver efficiency and the light/batteries will not heat up as much this gaining longevity of the light and its components.
> 
> Also note that as the springs heat up under load they will become more resistive and as they become more resistive they will heat up again further with time. So its a vicious circle as with any increased resistance connection under high load.



Edited post. The 0.25V-0.3V estimation for the spring voltage drop is quite imaginary and is unfounded. 
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/35228#node-35228
At 6A each spring drops 0.017V according to tests, now we can calculate resistance to be 0.00283 Ohm, next we easily calculate voltage drop at 7.5A to be 0.021V


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## Giocomo

Did you see the 4 pads in the middle of the copper PCB? You can even solder wires from those pads to the top of the springs, you don't have to do the typical inside the spring wire or copper braid mod. After all it is one big copper piece down there.


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## stateoftheart

Giocomo said:


> Did you see the 4 pads in the middle of the copper PCB? You can even solder wires from those pads to the top of the springs, you don't have to do the typical inside the spring wire or copper braid mod. After all it is one big copper piece down there.


Your right about the resistance of the spring as im speculating there, but I'm talking about the overall resistance from spring base including spring and battery connection resistance x 4 which will be around the figure I mentioned. Where does the 0.5 volt drop come into play then that the designer mentions as the other connections around the source are solid connections? Surely most of this Vd is from the battery connections and the springs as I can't see the solid copper mcpcbs in the rest of the supply circuit would have much resistance at all.What I meant by braiding is soldering the braid to the underside of the top spring then interweave in through the lower spring wires and solder to the base as you say x 3 per spring. This interweaving will provide more strength against the pressure of the batteries. I said I was going to solder 3-4mm diameter x 1.3mm thick tinned copper circular pads to each spring top to help with giving a better battery connection as well.


----------



## Giocomo

stateoftheart said:


> Your right about the resistance of the spring as im speculating there, but I'm talking about the overall resistance from spring base including spring and battery connection resistance x 4 which will be around the figure I mentioned. Maybe not but substantially more over 4 springs. Where does the 0.5 volt drop come into play then that the designer mentions as the other connections around the source are solid connections? Surely most of this Vd is from the battery connections and the springs as I can't see the solid copper mcpcbs in the rest of the supply circuit would have much at all.What I meant by braiding is soldering the braid to the underside of the top spring then interweave in through the lower spring wires and solder to the base as you say x 3 per spring. This interweaving will provide more strength against the pressure of the batteries. I said I was going to solder 3-4mm diameter x 1.3mm thick tinned copper circular pads to each spring top to help with giving a battery connection as well.



Those springs are high end beryllium copper alloy rated 45% IACS, the regular beryllium copper is not even rated that high, only around 20%. There is no way you can compare these springs with stainless steel ones in terms of resistance.

The driver has many components, several diodes, inductor, mosfet, switching loses in the mosfet or the switcher, etc. Things that you can't do anything about and trying to fault the springs on resistance is almost wishful thinking. Making sure that the cell you desire fits without issues that is totally another thing. 

0.000708 Ohm is the entire resistance of 4 springs in parallel (each spring is 0.00283 Ohm), so at 30A that means 0.021V drop, which equals 0.64W loss. That is far 
from 0.3V which would mean a whopping 9W loss in the springs, the real loss is 0.64W.

The PCB to which they are soldered is not even a PCB, it is a 1mm thick copper piece, there is no FR4 there like on your regular flashlight.


----------



## stateoftheart

Interesting looking at that BLF thread you referred too.

What concerns me is the international outdoor berilium spring failed his deformity test see below. All the more reason to beef these up. I've copied in extract of his write up:-

---------------------------------------------------

just figured I should also test the 'spring' performance after the 6A treatment (they had about 30 minutes of 6A, no cooling), so I compressed each of them 4 times. And some failures I got! Later I will give a picture (going to sleep now), but I can tell you now that the Fasttech spring and the intl-outdoor spring failed the test: they collapsed a bit and did not come back to their original length. The steel springs were fine and so was my custom spring Smile .

EDIT: here's the picture. I placed a new spring next to the tested custom spring, and a new one next to the tested Intl-outdoor spring, to compare. And as you see, also the custom spring has shortened a bit, did not see that before. It did not deform though, like the Fasttech spring and the intl-outdoor spring, and kept a good tension, stiffer than the intl-outdoor spring but not quite as stiff as a steel spring of same wire diameter.


----------



## carl

stateofheart - please post photos when you're done! thank you.


----------



## stateoftheart

Giocomo said:


> Those springs are high end beryllium copper alloy rated 45% IACS, the regular beryllium copper is not even rated that high, only around 20%. There is no way you can compare these springs with stainless steel ones in terms of resistance.
> 
> The driver has many components, several diodes, inductor, mosfet, switching loses in the mosfet or the switcher, etc. Things that you can't do anything about and trying to fault the springs on resistance is almost wishful thinking. Making sure that the cell you desire fits without issues that is totally another thing.
> 
> 0.000708 Ohm is the entire resistance of 4 springs in parallel (each spring is 0.00283 Ohm), so at 30A that means 0.021V drop, which equals 0.64W loss. That is far
> from 0.3V which would mean a whopping 9W loss in the springs, the real loss is 0.64W.
> 
> The PCB to which they are soldered is not even a PCB, it is a 1mm thick copper piece, there is no FR4 there like on your regular flashlight.



I'm not comparing to steel springs where did you get that from. You obviously think very highly of these springs but the fact of the matter remains they are the bottleneck in the source circuit as they are a 1mm thick wire. Now going back to the designers notes he mentioned a voltage drop of 0.5V, this was at 3.7V end of the light being the source circuit. Please read what he considers this 0.5V to be contacts, springs etc as in the source. He has not mentioned anything about the driver side of the circuit Vd losses. So what I'm saying is these losses are caught up in the battery connection resistances and the spring it being the bottleneck......


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## stateoftheart

carl said:


> stateofheart - please post photos when you're done! thank you.



Carl for the whole write up and photos see Giocomos referred thread copied again for you below and the photo of M43 berilium (tested one on the right). Down from 6mm to 4.3mm I think. Left spring in picture is non tested, can you see the colour difference too....oxidation at high current?

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/35228#node-35228






.


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## stateoftheart

Don't get me wrong though I think this light is alltogether an amazing light. I have been through the original manual and read quite a bit about it. There's nothing out there like this behemoth. Its been amazingly designed and looks rock solid. I mean look at the photo of the custom designed driver I've seen nothing like this before even in US manufacture lights.

From looking at the deformity it the spring it looks like it could have been caused by the inappropriate solder blob the OP used in his copper test rig. 

What I was trying to get at is that his tests were done looking at the resistance of the wire only (as they were hard soldered to solid copper lengths) and not the overall contact resistance you would see from the battery cathode which only rests against part of the spring by pressure alone.

I just like getting my soldering iron out and tinkering 

Looking at counteracting any future deformity though god forbid I thought it might be better soldering the braid from the bottom spring to the next wire level in the spring then from that wire level soldering to the next (at 3 or 4 postions around the spring circumference) to give extra support / sturdyness to the spring and give better conductivity; and as well adding a copper slug to the end of each spring so that you can get a better contact resistance to the battery with the added benefit of being able to use standard 65mm cells.


----------



## stateoftheart

Here's another couple to spoil you all.







The production driver shown below in red and original piece of artwork shown above was the prototype....awesome bit of kit.

From comparing the two drivers do you think the prototype was providing increased power? The inductor was bigger on the prototype being 3.3uH compared to the 2.2 uH in the production model. There's 6 current chips on the prototype and 4 on the production giving 12A at 10V instead of 8A....?


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## carl

thank you for the photos and link!


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## stateoftheart

carl said:


> thank you for the photos and link!




No problem I hope my comments have been constructive and helpful. I've even Enlightened myself a bit along the way. Its a nice driver that prototype isn't it. Wonder how many of the. Prototype lights were built and who's got em.

Shiver me timbers...


----------



## 240

Like everyone else I absolutely love my M43, but I had the unfortunate experience of dropping it while in the holster and cracking the glass lens. I ordered a replacement, but now I'm wondering how the heck I get into the light to remove the lens. Any insight or references would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## stateoftheart

240 said:


> Like everyone else I absolutely love my M43, but I had the unfortunate experience of dropping it while in the holster and cracking the glass lens. I ordered a replacement, but now I'm wondering how the heck I get into the light to remove the lens. Any insight or references would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.



Search for this thread on BLF references in the video.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nw6-BfkA71c

The suppliers should be able to tell you as well.


----------



## Giocomo

stateoftheart said:


> I'm not comparing to steel springs where did you get that from. You obviously think very highly of these springs but the fact of the matter remains they are the bottleneck in the source circuit as they are a 1mm thick wire.




What part of electrical explanation you don't get? They are great, with a total voltage drop of *0.021V* (0.00283 Ohm) at 30A in all of them in parallel that is a great feature, again try to even think in terms of electronics not imagination.
You are keen on calling the springs a bad point of lots of voltage drop and absolutely ignore the proof. You want to know where voltage is lost. Just to give you a simple example how you do not look at tests and evidence and keep on imagination, the MOSFET is a Texas Instruments CSD17303Q5 (you can see i n the photos) so this MOSFET has a RDSon of 3mOhm at 3.7V and 85C, now calculate voltage drop in that that is around *0.1V.* Do you even know about MOSFET switching losses, that is another subject of loses.


----------



## Giocomo

stateoftheart said:


> Carl for the whole write up and photos see Giocomos referred thread copied again for you below and the photo of M43 berilium (tested one on the right). Down from 6mm to 4.3mm I think. Left spring in picture is non tested, can you see the colour difference too....oxidation at high current?
> 
> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/35228#node-35228
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



That right spring is full of solder and flux and surface of gold does not oxidize. After a lot of use it will scratch of that is what people think it is oxidation of gold, but we are not just regular folks to imagine oxidation and we should now if we deal with electronics how things work and how are manufactured, features of materials, etc.


----------



## stateoftheart

Giocomo said:


> That right spring is full of solder and flux and surface of gold does not oxidize. After a lot of use it will scratch of that is what people think it is oxidation of gold, but we are not just regular folks to imagine oxidation and we should now if we deal with electronics how things work and how are manufactured, features of materials, etc.



Your right my imagination is unfettered.....if I agree the springs are good which I sort of did anyhow, will you stop throwing your weight around here. I didn't mention they were awful just that they deform under load and so need a bit of modification.

You keep straying from my main point as well my friend, by diverting us to to MOSFETs and diodes. Please keep on the issue of spring to battery overall contact resistance and how to improve it, which over the last few comments you have strangely neglected it being the topic of discussion.

Let's say that the spring deforms to one side in every case over time (which is due to phyics as the curl of the spring at 180 degrees from the base solder connection will bend on an angle due to force). This will also increase the spring to battery contact resistance again. We can improve this by doing what I described above, do you agree? Do you also agree that the weak point in thec 3.7V power source circuit is the 4 x 1mm diameter springs whatever their composition?

Remember the world would be a very boring desolate place without imagination. If fact you could say without imagination we and the meteor wouldn't be.


----------



## more_vampires

stateoftheart said:


> ...the issue of spring to battery overall contact resistance and how to improve it



Several lights have a contact disk bonded to the spring. It even looks nice. Some of the disks are magnetic, some are not.

A = pi*R^2 sounds better than a tiny thin half-a-curl of a line to me as far as solid contact.

Sounds like an optimal solution to me, in fact. My 2 cents.


----------



## stateoftheart

Giocomo said:


> That right spring is full of solder and flux and surface of gold does not oxidize. After a lot of use it will scratch of that is what people think it is oxidation of gold, but we are not just regular folks to imagine oxidation and we should now if we deal with electronics how things work and how are manufactured, features of materials, etc.




As a regular guy I have found that any gold other than 24ct (everything oxidises actually) pure gold will and does oxidise. 

If its 70% gold it will oxidise in a matter if months ie turn that colour, and heat and high current will most definately accelerate this. Are you saying its 24ct.

It can't be scratched that much it was new before the test and the only flux would be around the connections unless he's a flux monster....


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## stateoftheart

Thanks vamps international outdoor sell 5mm diameter x 2mm low resistance brass pills cheap with free shipping which should be perfect if anyone's interested.

Do you think Gioccomo has a complex about the Berilium springs or what. Its just a spring it can be improved upon admit it.


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## more_vampires

stateoftheart said:


> Its just a spring it can be improved upon



All the things can be improved, always. Even improved things can be improved.

Waiting on my Meteor M43 at the moment. I can't wait to play, too, guys!!


----------



## markr6

Mine is arriving Friday!! I'll be out of town but I'm making a quick trip back just to pick this up. I'm going to charge 4 cells tonight so they're ready.


----------



## carl

Stateoftheart:
I wouldn't mind copper-braiding the springs but I want it to look good too. Too many spring tweaks I've seen using extra wires starts to look a bit messy. Functional, but messy. If there is a 'clean and neat' way to do it, I'll do it. 

Also, any braided wire/spring solder point should be in direct contact with the battery, otherwise if the tip of the spring is the only contact point with the battery, we will still have an electric current bottle-neck. Using a copper disc at the spring tip as you mentioned is a good idea. This not only gives good contact but also prevents the spring from denting the battery (only some flashlights have this problem, not all). I just finished making some 1mm copper discs to put on top of my flat-top batts. I will tin them with soft solder on top to provide a soft surface to prevent any scratching with the gold plate on the head of the flashlight, especially since those battery tops will be rubbing on the gold plate when screwing the head back on.

One more point about general conversation on this forum - we have a lot of left-brain types here including me - the demographics of the membership here is largely male, with technical backgrounds, and probably mostly single. You can see where I'm going with this: we tend to be logical and technical, but often at the expense of being more personable and diplomatic, because we can lack a little in the area of communication and social skills - in other words, a bit socially stiff. Maybe we need to go to charm school, lol! If we all understand this, it helps.


----------



## more_vampires

carl said:


> You can see where I'm going with this: we tend to be logical and technical, but often at the expense of being more personable and diplomatic, because we can lack a little in the area of communication and social skills - in other words, a bit socially stiff. Maybe we need to go to charm school, lol! If we all understand this, it helps.



Ah yes, but Charm Person is a first level wizard spell from the Enchantment school. One is a school, the other is a spell. Its how DND spells are organized. 

Yeah, we're a bunch of pedantic geeks.


----------



## stateoftheart

more_vampires said:


> Ah yes, but Charm Person is a first level wizard spell from the Enchantment school. One is a school, the other is a spell. Its how DND spells are organized.
> 
> Yeah, we're a bunch of pedantic geeks.



I agree completely about politeness that's why im always jovial about most things. 

There's over improving though for instance doing what I said on a Nichia 1A light its not socially justifiable  so to speak. Then there are improvements that can be simply carried out for maximal benefit with very low risk / cost attributed. By soldering a pad onto the spring I think we are all in agreement its going to be quite beneficial and by maybe strengthening the spring more on the off side by the use of spring interconnections would make it balance as well as conduct better. 

If I do a good job on the soldering of the springs and its looks sort of semi professional then the improvement adds to the visual appearance of it. 

Then there's improvements say adding solder to the driver somewhere which are prohibitive and risky and out of reach in the difficulty spectrum. Its a no brainer for me adding pills to springs anyway as my cells won't pass the criteria specified. 

Is there a problem with the copper scratching the brass anode ring slightly. Is the light anode a solid brass ring or coated copper. I'm just thinking you want to keep the surface of your pills as flat as possible. 

I would like to think of us at CPF as improvers anyway whether it be absolutely necessary or not. Its somewhere to dial in to our obsessive compusive disorder. I can say its a great hobby and the maintenance costs of a flashlight hobby are negligible unlike some other hobbies out there.


----------



## Fra881

is Hank used not to answer for several days?

I sent him an email and he answered me in 30 minutes, after that it's been 10 days without a sign from him


----------



## stateoftheart

I have learned if he doesn't get back to you in 48 hours it'd probably disappeared into the abyss (remember that film) so I'd send it again.


----------



## more_vampires

The Mountain is currently slammed, flailing at near 100% capacity. It's a sign that a sizable splash was made upon CPF, BLF, etc.



stateoftheart said:


> there are improvements that can be simply carried out for maximal benefit with very low risk / cost attributed.



...like adjusting tint by using diffuser film or stage lighting film? 



stateoftheart said:


> By soldering a pad onto the spring I think we are all in agreement its going to be quite beneficial and by maybe strengthening the spring more on the off side by the use of spring interconnections would make it balance as well as conduct better.


100%. It will only increase contact area. I've noticed that when I use needle probes on a multimeter that I get funky readings when it comes to higher current draw lights. An alligator clip holding some copper scrub pad seems to give more accurate readings in that case.

I love spring contact pads. If they pivot on the end of the spring and are solidly bonded, you're golden. I think it's far superior to copper solder wick and solder hacks and looks 10 times more professional.



stateoftheart said:


> Then there's improvements say adding solder to the driver somewhere which are prohibitive and risky and out of reach in the difficulty spectrum. Its a no brainer for me adding pills to springs anyway as my cells won't pass the criteria specified.



Thermal cubes, additional heat sink mass, upgrading brass to aluminum to copper....



stateoftheart said:


> I'm just thinking you want to keep the surface of your pills as flat as possible.



Yes, finely lapping contact surfaces and press-fitting is very time consuming but probably one of the best methods. To add heat interference fit (chill the pill, warm the head, then press-fit) only makes it more solid and bullet proof. (Well not really bullet proof.)


----------



## stateoftheart

Im not sure I understand you press fitting the pill into spring without additional solder.


----------



## more_vampires

Oh, sorry. Was talking about pill in the light head. To throw all the effort into the spring without looking at the other parts of the system might show no gains.


----------



## carl

1) I wonder if the brass pills from the international outdoor site would be better if made of copper instead? Maybe not.

2) I read somewhere on CPF that when electrical resistance is reduced at the tailcap spring by soldering a wire to the spring, it can cause overheating/failure of another component downstream due to another component becoming the new electric current bottleneck. Is this a concern regarding the M43?

3) What width of flat braided copper wire are you using? The wider the better I assume, although the width of the wire is probably restricted by the diameter of the spring coil opening at the top of the spring?


----------



## more_vampires

carl said:


> 1) I wonder if the brass pills from the international outdoor site would be better if made of copper instead? Maybe not.



Yes, copper crushes brass as far as thermal properties. It isn't even close. Not to say it's going to catch fire, but copper is superior and far more expensive.



carl said:


> 2) I read somewhere on CPF that when electrical resistance is reduced at the tailcap spring by soldering a wire to the spring, it can cause overheating/failure of another component downstream due to another component becoming the new electric current bottleneck. Is this a concern regarding the M43?



Maybe. Vinh's experiments on juicing the M43 show it's already pretty much max current as stock drive. His tweaks involve thermal mass, thermal path, emitter swap, and attention to the tail spring. Going to have to get mine rebuilt with the XPL high intensity one day, out of stock when I pulled the trigger on my M43 (still waiting on it.) The XP-G2 swap should tide me over in the meantime.  Anyway, it shouldn't burn out the light unless it was already on the razor's edge anyway.



carl said:


> 3) What width of flat braided copper wire are you using? The wider the better I assume, although the width of the wire is probably restricted by the diameter of the spring coil opening at the top of the spring?



I don't think solder wick can meet or exceed a contact disk. Plus, it looks kind of crappy. My 2 cents.


----------



## stateoftheart

carl said:


> 1) I wonder if the brass pills from the international outdoor site would be better if made of copper instead? Maybe not.
> 
> 2) I read somewhere on CPF that when electrical resistance is reduced at the tailcap spring by soldering a wire to the spring, it can cause overheating/failure of another component downstream due to another component becoming the new electric current bottleneck. Is this a concern regarding the M43?
> 
> 3) What width of flat braided copper wire are you using? The wider the better I assume, although the width of the wire is probably restricted by the diameter of the spring coil opening at the top of the spring?



Hi Carl I believe brass is better than copper exposed to air (like in a light) as it does not oxidise as quick. Tinning helps though but like I mentioned before the tinning would have to be very flat on say a battery pill and it will wear off over time.

You reduce the electrical resistance you in turn reduce the volt drop so for the same lumen output you will be running more efficiently and less hot. You also gain on lumen capacity a much a 10% for the same current you had before you modified it so the answer is no. There's no problem with the meteor handling this extra power gain as it it has thermal overload in it but in some lights without thermal overload say with three current settings on max it will have more power after modification so it will get hotter quicker on max which might not be desirable. However its much more complicated that this depending on the driver. If the drivers regulated the increase in efficently and light output over the source voltage curve on discharge may not differ that much with heat from before it was nodded. Most rivers tend to be more efficient at high voltages as is the case with the meteor.

Anything bigger than 2mm braid is going to be difficult to work with.


----------



## more_vampires

An old USA penny (back when they were made of copper) would probably make a great contact disk for the spring.


----------



## carl

Info from US Mint:
•In 1962, the cent's tin content, which was quite small, was removed. That made the metal composition of the cent 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc. 
•The alloy remained 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc until 1982, when the composition was changed to 97.5 percent zinc and 2.5 percent copper (copper-plated zinc). 

I decided it was difficult to find a 1982 penny so I just went to Costco and got some small copper plumbing joints and made my own copper pills - easy to solder too.

The brass pills provided by International-Outdoors is meant to decrease resistance at the battery-spring interface by increasing surface contact area between the spring and battery - so its not for thermal reasons. However, the current still needs to travel down that thin spring wire so the bottleneck still exists. Adding extra braided wires at the springs provides additional current paths so this is the advantage.

Properties for some pure metals as far as electrical resistance and conductivity are usually shown in the following order (from best to worst): silver, copper, gold, aluminum, tin, lead. 

1) This order makes me wonder why gold-plating is used on most flashlight parts rather than silver plating, which has better electrical properties than gold, and maybe cheaper too. Maybe its easier to plate gold rather than silver?

2) Since low-temp solder is mostly made of lead and tin (the two lowest on the list, lol!) I wonder if tinning electrical contact surfaces may INCREASE resistance. Maybe soldering brass pills on the tops of flat-top batteries will be good since brass has low-friction properties and is less likely to scratch the gold plate on the head of the M43 as you twist the head back on. 

The widest copper braid for removing/wicking old solder on ebay is 3.5mm, most are 2mm wide. Maybe we should consider using more than one wire per spring?

Since the large bottom coil of each spring comes from the Noctigon factory covered with solder (to connect to solid copper tailcap plate), maybe we can use the following steps:

1) take each braided wire and presolder to one flat face of brass pill
2) pre-tin the top of the spring with solder.
3) drop loose end of wire down the middle of the spring coils
4) solder brass pill to top of spring
5) take loose end of wire hanging downward and solder to bottom coil of spring. 

maybe do this with 3 wires evenly placed around the circumference of the bottom coil of each spring.


----------



## more_vampires

You can buy copper sheeting from McMaster-Carr and other industrial suppliers.


----------



## carl

As for oxidation, I would think a coat of dielectric grease like silicone grease would prevent oxidation while still allowing an electrical path via pressure between the pill and battery causing the grease to be squeezed out at the pressure point, thereby still allowing some metal-to-metal contact.


----------



## carl

Several articles say the conductivity of most types of solder is, at best, 4x less than copper (IACS: International Annealed Copper Standard). That value can worsen to 17x less than copper for some solders on the market. That's not good at all. But the saving grace in all of this is that, usually, the solder is applied very thin and widely, so the negative impact of the higher-resistance solder is minimized. 

There are also some electrically conductive adhesives using a carbon-based paste. However, early anecdotal reports suggest it has poor adhesion qualities, the bond is weak, and the conductivity is questionable. 

Here is a link to an IACS table for various pure metals:

http://www.bluesea.com/resources/108

Some values of pure metals from the IACS table:
1) silver 105%
2) copper 100% (the standard)
3) gold 70%
4) aluminum 61%
5) brass 28%
6) tin 15%
7) lead 7%

As you can see, brass is a bit low on the conductivity scale at 0.28 which is less than the IACS value for the M43 springs at 0.45. This may be a reason not to put brass pills on top of the springs, even with the increased contact area provided by the pill. 


Unfortunately for me, my low-temp solder is mostly lead and tin, which are at the bottom of the list.


----------



## stateoftheart

Good points guys. I think the reason for brass or tinning is that they don't oxidise easy like bare copper. Gold would be better but silver oxidises too so it's not good for contacts. 

It is a bit worrying about brass but I think brass had some unique advantage I cannot remember. Its probably cost lol.

If your using 50/50 tin lead it has awful conductivity something like 25 in the solder chart but if your using 65 tin 35 lead its around 50 which is not so bad. The best solder is about 60- 70 but melts a much higher temps and is a pain to use. 

I agree using multiple braided wires around the spring but I think you should have more braided wires concentrated where the spring would naturally sag as in the photo above. Then by interweaving though the spring wires down to the base and solder at each wire you are effectively structutally strengthening the spring.

You can buy 20mm copper heat sink shims 20mm x 20mm x 1.6mm (all types sizes actually) from eBay for around a dollar as I mentioned before. Useful for LED heatsinks too


----------



## carl

Good point about silver oxidizing too much. That must be the reason they use gold plating instead.

Brass has lubricity so is good for threads and other high-wear, high-friction applications. Brass is also solderable, doesn't oxidise too much - so you don't have to plate it, and its cheap like you said.

Strengthening the spring may not be a good idea because it will increase pressure between the battery button-top and the gold plate on the head which, in turn, may cause galling and increased wear and tear of gold plate. See the photos of the gold plating in this review of the M43 XPL:

http://www.forolinternas.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10838
BTW, this review has great beamshot comparisons!


----------



## stateoftheart

carl said:


> Good point about silver oxidizing too much. That must be the reason they use gold plating instead.
> 
> Brass has lubricity so is good for threads and other high-wear, high-friction applications. Brass is also solderable, doesn't oxidise too much - so you don't have to plate it, and its cheap like you said.
> 
> Strengthening the spring may not be a good idea because it will increase pressure between the battery button-top and the gold plate on the head which, in turn, may cause galling and increased wear and tear of gold plate. See the photos of the gold plating in this review of the M43 XPL:
> 
> http://www.forolinternas.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10838
> BTW, this review has great beamshot comparisons!



Yes good review, in my case im using unprotected batteries though and I'm only 65.3mm length when over 66.6mm to 68.8 (can't believe he's got down to tenths of a cm lol) is recommended so I've got up to 3.5mm to make up. I think having a more taut spring can only be benefitical say you was using it on your bike to forces may move the batteries out of connection.


----------



## hizzo3

I wonder if I can mount this on my dirtbike for a driving light


----------



## markr6

Such great light, but I decided not to keep mine. Perfect Nichia 219B tint and nice UI, but the thing is just too heavy, hot and impractical for me (most are  but this was above and beyond the usual)


----------



## chuckhov

Mark,

I can understand how you feel.

I just got an Acebeam K40M, and it is all that you have said in your post about the M43. - EDIT... Except for the Hot part

I'm seriously thinking of selling it. - Something that I really have no practical use for:-(

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## more_vampires

Practical?!?! Since when did a light have to be practical?


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> Practical?!?! Since when did a light have to be practical?



HAHA like I said many of mine are impractical, but I really need to start setting limits (quantity, $$, or both). Having a bunch of 18650s just sitting around is making me uneasy. Especially now that I'm getting into 3 and 4x18650 lights. Not a safety thing, just a "waste" I guess.

I did go for a walk with the M43 and took it out kayaking, but it was just overkill. And I usually appreciate overkill! And the battery life was just crazy short even without using turbo much. 3500mAh cells would have helped, but this just wasn't a fit for me. And while I was after a flooder, I think I will focus more on flood/throw mix lights from now on.

UPS guy just left with it  I always had reservations with this light for some reason; I should have stuck with my gut feeling. But it's fun to try new lights! Now I know.


----------



## stateoftheart

Oh my not got mine yet and people are trampling on it.

For one its a great travel light. Whats the runtime on candlelight its got to be efficient. Its def smaller/lighter than those lanterns. I also think the runtime on high is good as well being over an hour.

Didnt fancy the Nichia for flood reasons theres way more throw with the XPG. 

Its a good backup searchlight i think, someone with a throw and the other with the flood type thing.


----------



## chuckhov

"Practical?!?! Since when did a light have to be practical?"


I hear ya, but I am a retired "gentleman", and "they" only give me a small allowance once a month. - If I were in the mainstream of the work force, then sure, why not!

I have a 7yr old 500G hard drive... Perhaps a new 2-3T would be the money better spent?

But, life is but a game and sometimes we make good choices and sometimes I think that I could have done better. EDIT: Not talking about the M43 here... Please see my post above.

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## more_vampires

markr6 said:


> HAHA like I said many of mine are impractical, but I really need to start setting limits (quantity, $$, or both).





chuckhov said:


> I hear ya, but I am a retired "gentleman", and "they" only give me a small allowance once a month. - If I were in the mainstream of the work force, then sure, why not!



 Rehab is for quitters! :laughing:

My favorite lights are woefully impractical, but it's amazing what can be done on a budget. That's why I tried to mod an old magcharger I had laying around. Total build wasn't even $30, IIRC. Gotta love a flashlight junk box!

M43 is going to be an unreal mod host as emitter tech advances. Today it's XPL HI, who knows about tomorrow?


----------



## markr6

stateoftheart said:


> Oh my not got mine yet and people are trampling on it.



I definitely don't want to do that or steer others away. This light is very unique, darn near a piece of art! There were just too many cons (for me) and I'll need to consider another light on my quest for...heck, I'm out of quests  I'm just buying and trying cool new stuff!!!

I will say the MX25L3C Nichia really played a part in this decision. Not the best UI, but it sure held it's ground!

Oh and the Nichia 219A vs 219B? B is clearly the winner in my book, but I still love both.


----------



## more_vampires

more_vampires said:


> M43 is going to be an unreal mod host as emitter tech advances. Today it's XPL HI, who knows about tomorrow?





markr6 said:


> Oh and the Nichia 219A vs 219B? B is clearly the winner in my book, but I still love both.



[h=2]Nichia 219C [/h]
www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?402839-Nichia-219


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> *Nichia 219C *
> 
> 
> www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?402839-Nichia-219



That will be interesting! Testing on the 83CRI looked great, but another "believe it when I see it" though for the 90+ CRI.


----------



## richbuff

markr6 said:


> ... but it was just overkill. ...


Give_me_more_overkill_now_!


----------



## more_vampires

Hey now, if it isn't overkill then you just aren't using enough!


----------



## carl

Looks like Mountain electronics has the XPL-dedomed (grey) in stock.


----------



## stateoftheart

carl said:


> Looks like Mountain electronics has the XPL-dedomed (grey) in stock.




Have you seen the quadruple MTG version?


----------



## more_vampires

AAAAAGH! My M43 was DOA!?!?! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

The waiting was the hardest part. Known good cells dont light it up! argh!!!!


----------



## stateoftheart

You sure everything's in order did you order from mountain or international?


----------



## more_vampires

Taking it to PM with the folks involved. They have enough rep, I know for a fact that they will make it right.

Even so: :mecry:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! :mecry:

I'm not going to cut myself or anything. It's just more like "holy crap I wanted this so very very very badly!!!!!"

Clarification: M43 is 18650x4 in PARALLEL, correct? Tip towards head on all four cells? With the solid head pill I can't see how it would be otherwise.


----------



## Fireclaw18

more_vampires said:


> ...
> 
> Clarification: M43 is 18650x4 in PARALLEL, correct? Tip towards head on all four cells? With the solid head pill I can't see how it would be otherwise.



Correct. All 4 cells are in parallel.

Are you using button-top cells? The M43 requires button tops.


----------



## more_vampires

:mecry:Yes, button top legit cells that work in another 18650x4 parallel light. :mecry:

I use panasonic, efest, and AW. Though I have a POS ultrafire or two, they only go in junk low drive single cell lights.


----------



## richbuff

You are trying unprotected or protected cells? Protected ICR Olight cells are too long for my Meteor. The light will not work with them. 

Unprotected IMR Efest 2500 35A work great.


----------



## more_vampires

AW protected 3100 mah x 4 button top black jackets.

Waiting on a PM back from the modder, possible I need special juju cells. Don't currently have 4x efest purple. 

I said to make it punchy, maybe the protection circuit is tripping?


----------



## richbuff

Probably not tripping protection circuit. The protected cells are probably just too long for the body and the head to make contact. Please try shorter unprotected IMR cells.

Any better after that?


----------



## more_vampires

En route


----------



## markr6

You could even try running it with only one cell if you have several types but not 4 matching... it will run one 1x18650 (I tried 1 NCR18650B in mine). That may clue you into what cell length/type you have that works


----------



## stateoftheart

markr6 said:


> You could even try running it with only one cell if you have several types but not 4 matching... it will run one 1x18650 (I tried 1 NCR18650B in mine). That may clue you into what cell length/type you have that works



If the cells are too big the aluminium body electrical return path will not close between where the head meets the body (shiny bit). If this is the case use a kit kat rapper to sort it.


----------



## more_vampires

Holy crap, M43 crushed the button tops on one of my 18650 AW protected black jackets!

I feel that this is the problem! Contacted the modders, will try high drain efest. It must be a bad connection, feel that protection is tripping within the light (good job!!!) AFAIK, it is a short within the protection circuit!!!

In the meantime: crap, crap, crap! Wanted to show my DND gaming group! I guess this negates me getting cosmetic surgery for pointed elf ears!

No good! Stay on target!

Disclaimer: apparently, I am not an elf after all (yet.)


----------



## carl

As great as the M43 is, I think the above issue brings up the one design feature I wish was different - the battery carrier. The above would be a non-issue if the battery carrier were built-in e.g. Zebralight S6330 and Niwalker MM15. 

The M43 is an overall solid design but as time goes on, some issues are bound to arise - as with any light. Attach the battery carrier support posts to the flashlight head and this would mean less problems in the future related to: battery crush, battery contact, circuit break at head/carrier, possible gold plate wear, overtightening or undertightening the carrier, etc.

Nonetheless, I'm still furiously saving up for my very own M43!


----------



## markr6

I really think the best solution is to go with what we know works. Basic unprotected cells with a button added. My button top Samsung 25R cells from mtn electronics worked fine. I'm sure the other flavors there would be the same (LG HE2, NCR18650GA, etc)


----------



## tonkem

I use the LG ICR18650HE4, without issue.


----------



## stateoftheart

Don't use protected cells you don't need them in this light.


----------



## markr6

stateoftheart said:


> Don't use protected cells you don't need them in this light.



Agreed. In fact, I don't use them in ANY light.


----------



## more_vampires

Yeah, I screwed up. Modder verified it. Yeah, I was wrong.  Unprotected high drain.

Now I get to wait on batteries and look at an empty light. ACK!



carl said:


> Nonetheless, I'm still furiously saving up for my very own M43!



Love how it feels in the hand, feels quality. Good machining, good anodizing. Looks slick and sick.

Remember: buy your set of unprotected high drains BEFORE you receive the M43 so you don't sit there staring at feeling sad.


----------



## cagenuts

So what happens if you use condom cells?


----------



## more_vampires

The m43 is a dirty, dirty girl. She doesn't like using protection. 

That's my bag, baby! YEAH!


----------



## markr6

OK, I'm sort of missing my M43 Nichia...but not saying I'm going to pull a 180 and get another! BUT...I was just wondering if there's any chance the XP-G2 S3 3D version would run cooler than the Nichia 219B. Thoughts?


----------



## more_vampires

Mine is xp-g2, but as I got the wrong cells I've no idea how hot it runs. Sorry.


----------



## markr6

I realize they all get hot due to the current, 12 emitters, small size and good heat sinking. I'm just thinking maybe the Nichia emitters are pushed so hard that they produce more heat, quicker. Just total speculation, though.


----------



## thedoc007

markr6 said:


> I realize they all get hot due to the current, 12 emitters, small size and good heat sinking. I'm just thinking maybe the Nichia emitters are pushed so hard that they produce more heat, quicker. Just total speculation, though.



It is certainly possible that the XP-G2 would run SLIGHTLY cooler, but I very much doubt the difference is dramatic. You had it right at with the first sentence...a small, heavily driven light with twelve high-power emitters is going to run hot regardless of which particular emitter family you choose. Be glad you didn't get the XP-L version...it runs hotter than either of the other two options.


----------



## chuckhov

Mark,

Though I don't have a M43, my personal choice would be for the XP-G2 3D.

Considering the higher output relative to the 219, I really can't see a temperature reduction - I think that they are both being driven equally hard, just better efficiency with the Crees. 

I have to side with the Doc on this one.

Very sorry that your new TM16 doesn't really blow your dress up - I feel the same way with my new Acebeam K40M....

I'll probably keep it, but if I sell it (I have yet to sell a light), I'm going to have to go for something with 5000lm+ to really notice a difference. - And as regards Beam Profile, I think a bit more towards the throw side, though one really good Flooder would be nice to have too. - The Acebeam K60 XHP-70 looks promising for more throw, but a Ton of money (for me), and....?

Ya know what? - I think I'm really a single 18650 kinda guy.

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## markr6

Chuck, single 18650 is where it's at!

But I do LOVE my EagleTac MX25L3C Nichia. And now that I tested my TM16 some more, I'm liking it too. I needed a good outdoor test and now I'm a believer.

I'm sure the M43 with 3D tint is a winner. That was my first choice but went with the Nichia. It was great and I sometimes think I rushed to judgement selling it so quick, but it just didn't seem to be a keeper. Heck, with my indecisiveness noone should be surprised if I end up with one again in the future!


----------



## more_vampires

markr6 said:


> Heck, with my indecisiveness noone should be surprised if I end up with one again in the future!



That's what V2 is for.


----------



## stateoftheart

Mine arrived today awesome light.

On the issue of protected cells you coukd remove the protection wrapper\circuit from the cell. Peels a bit of the plastic casing away from one to see if there's the original wrapping below and if there is go ahead and you'll be ready to go now.


----------



## mikkowus

stateoftheart said:


> Mine arrived today awesome light.
> 
> On the issue of protected cells you coukd remove the protection wrapper\circuit from the cell. Peels a bit of the plastic casing away from one to see if there's the original wrapping below and if there is go ahead and you'll be ready to go now.


Mine arrived.... Doesn't work 
Grrrr...


----------



## Giocomo

mikkowus said:


> Mine arrived.... Doesn't work
> Grrrr...



You are using non-raised top cells or they are too short. Or maybe they are too long over 70mm.


----------



## mikkowus

Giocomo said:


> You are using non-raised top cells or they are too short. Or maybe they are too long over 70mm.



I am using unprotected LG INR18650-HG2 High drain batteries. They are supposed to be 65.20 mm and they look like they are button topped. I charged them with a nitecore intelicharger i4 2014 version overnight. is there anything I have to do to set it up? I just tapped the power button. I know its programable but I would think it would be set to something by default.


----------



## markr6

mikkowus said:


> I am using unprotected LG INR18650-HG2 High drain batteries. They are supposed to be 65.20 mm and they look like they are button topped. I charged them with a nitecore intelicharger i4 2014 version overnight. is there anything I have to do to set it up? I just tapped the power button. I know its programable but I would think it would be set to something by default.



The recommended length for this light is 66.6mm to 68.8mm. But intl-outdoor recommends the cell you are using for the M43, so it should work. And your button tops are longer than 65.20mm; I believe that's the flat top length.

Do you have another button top 18650? The M43 will run on just one battery so that would be an easy way to possibly rule out a defective flashlight.


----------



## mikkowus

markr6 said:


> The recommended length for this light is 66.6mm to 68.8mm. But intl-outdoor recommends the cell you are using for the M43, so it should work. And your button tops are longer than 65.20mm; I believe that's the flat top length.
> 
> Do you have another button top 18650? The M43 will run on just one battery so that would be an easy way to possibly rule out a defective flashlight.


I don't but I could stick something on the end of one of the batteries to add a little length to see if it works. I have a couple more sets of batteries coming in the mail in a few days which I think are longer.


----------



## markr6

mikkowus said:


> I don't but I could stick something on the end of one of the batteries to add a little length to see if it works. I have a couple more sets of batteries coming in the mail in a few days which I think are longer.



I must have overlooked it, but now see you said the LG INR18650-HG2 looked like they were button tops. I'm guessing they only have a slight rise to them, not enough to make contact. A button top will usually (NOT always though) look more like the nipple on an AA battery. Where did you get your cells? If we see a photo we can probably tell you for sure.


----------



## mikkowus

markr6 said:


> I must have overlooked it, but now see you said the LG INR18650-HG2 looked like they were button tops. I'm guessing they only have a slight rise to them, not enough to make contact. A button top will usually (NOT always though) look more like the nipple on an AA battery. Where did you get your cells? If we see a photo we can probably tell you for sure.



I'm pretty sure they aren't button top. Here is where I got them http://www.ebay.com/itm/261928195286 I also searched around and found a picture of some button top ones of the same kind and they look different. I think that's the problem. http://intl-outdoor.com/lg-inr18650hg2-3000mah-20a-high-drain-cell-2-pcs-p-872.html


----------



## markr6

mikkowus said:


> I'm pretty sure they aren't button top. Here is where I got them http://www.ebay.com/itm/261928195286 I also searched around and found a picture of some button top ones of the same kind and they look different. I think that's the problem. http://intl-outdoor.com/lg-inr18650hg2-3000mah-20a-high-drain-cell-2-pcs-p-872.html



Yeah that first link is flat top.


----------



## mikkowus

markr6 said:


> Yeah that first link is flat top.



Added a little but of wire to the top of the batteries. This thing is sweet. Now I just need to test and see how long it will actually last running at 2 amps or so.


----------



## Giocomo

mikkowus said:


> Added a little but of wire to the top of the batteries. This thing is sweet. Now I just need to test and see how long it will actually last running at 2 amps or so.


Did you solder the wire on top of the batteries?


----------



## mikkowus

in other news. I got hte light with XP-G2 S4 2B bulbs. I plan on running the thing all night at the brightest setting I can. So it needs to run at like 9 hours at the highest setting it can. What would be your guess as a good setting and the lumen output for that bulb? Could I have gotten a better bulb for the job?

For example, If I run the thing at 1.5 amps with a set of 4*3400 mAh Panasonic batteries (math would be (4*3400)/1.5=9066)~9hrs) what lumen output would I be getting? Could I have gotten a more efficient bulb? Here is the cree wiki chart http://flashlightwiki.com/Cree#XP-G2


----------



## Giocomo

mikkowus said:


> in other news. I got hte light with XP-G2 S4 2B bulbs. I plan on running the thing all night at the brightest setting I can. So it needs to run at like 9 hours at the highest setting it can. What would be your guess as a good setting and the lumen output for that bulb? Could I have gotten a better bulb for the job?
> 
> For example, If I run the thing at 1.5 amps with a set of 4*3400 mAh Panasonic batteries (math would be (4*3400)/1.5=9066)~9hrs) what lumen output would I be getting? Could I have gotten a more efficient bulb? Here is the cree wiki chart http://flashlightwiki.com/Cree#XP-G2



What do you mean by 1.5A? You refer to the described outputs in the Manual, like 8A, 4A, 2A etc?


----------



## darkknightlight

If I understand correctly, this light uses a boost driver. What that means is that tailcap (draw currents) current will be higher than what the emitters actually "see". So draw current is highly dependant on the battery's ability to maintain voltage under load. I have not read the manual for this light, but I would imagine that in order to obtain 9 hours of regulated output, you would need to be using the light on one of its lowest modes.


----------



## markr6

mhanlen did some nice videos showing the runtimes:

High: almost 2 hours but let's call it 1:50 of useable light (2500mAh cells)
Turbo: about the same with 2600mAh cells

If turbo is 8A, can we simply double the runtime at 4A? So that's close to 4 hours on High 1. And 8 Hours on High 2. I'm guessing it's not that simple though, as darkknight mentioned above.

But if that's correct, I would almost rather use something like the TK35UE with one battery swap. That way, you would know exactly how much more runtime you had after depleting the first set.


----------



## Giocomo

You have around 11W of energy per cell, that is 44W available.
For UI2 "Mid1" the output current is 0.5A at 8.4V (2.8V per LED) that is 4.2W add some 10-15% losses, that is around 5W input power, now that is around 8.8 hours of runtime based on 44W available power.


----------



## mikkowus

Giocomo said:


> Did you solder the wire on top of the batteries?



Nope. I was at work and used a paperclip. I bent the wire and slid it under the "button" that's not a button. There were 4 holes in that end.


----------



## mikkowus

Giocomo said:


> You have around 11W of energy per cell, that is 44W available.
> For UI2 "Mid1" the output current is 0.5A at 8.4V (2.8V per LED) that is 4.2W add some 10-15% losses, that is around 5W input power, now that is around 8.8 hours of runtime based on 44W available power.




I did my math another way. Going by this definition http://www.phonescoop.com/glossary/term.php?gid=194 of what mAh and miliamps mean, I calculated that if I use panasonic ncr18650b batteries holding 3400 mAh each I will have a total of 13600 mAh at my disposal.

If the thing runs at 1 amp I would in theory have about 13 hours 36 mins of run time. Being that the batteries probably wouldn't quite hold that much and there would be losses through the driver, I would say there would be 12 hours running at 1000 mA(1 amp). now, if I ran it at 1.5 amps I would have about 9 hours of run time or in reality maybe 8. 

What darkknightlight was saying about boost drivers and regulated output is quite interesting. I guess I probably need to just let the thing run over night at specific settings and see what happens. I should check out some of those videos that markr6 mentioned. Also, here is the meteor manual if anyone wants a peak at it. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0WEb-DpmrKXZ3FYLTFibnYxa1U/view


----------



## Giocomo

If you calculate using current per hour as a unit measure for energy then runtimes are exaggerated and unscientific, reason for which often runtimes are exaggerated by cheap manufacturers, you need to calculate based on energy available and input energy, amps are not a unit of measure for power, they are only half of the deal you need volts too . Also my calculation clearly add losses and I totally understand how the circuitry works.
It should be 750OTF Lumens for 8.8hours
For instance the Nitecore TM16 (4 of 18650) is rated 6 hours for 680 lumens maybe abit too optimistic. but anyway for 700lumen and 4*18650 that is the runtime ballpark. 

Again:
You have around 11W of energy per cell, that is 44W available.
For UI2 "Mid1" the output current is 0.5A at 8.4V (2.8V per LED) that is 4.2W add some 10-15% losses, that is around 5W input power, now that is around 8.8 hours of runtime based on 44W available power.


----------



## mikkowus

Giocomo said:


> If you calculate using current per hour as a unit measure for energy then runtimes are exaggerated and unscientific, reason for which often runtimes are exaggerated by cheap manufacturers, you need to calculate based on energy available and input energy, amps are not a unit of measure for power, they are only half of the deal you need volts too . Also my calculation clearly add losses and I totally understand how the circuitry works.
> It should be 750OTF Lumens for 8.8hours
> For instance the Nitecore TM16 (4 of 18650) is rated 6 hours for 680 lumens maybe abit too optimistic. but anyway for 700lumen and 4*18650 that is the runtime ballpark.
> 
> Again:
> You have around 11W of energy per cell, that is 44W available.
> For UI2 "Mid1" the output current is 0.5A at 8.4V (2.8V per LED) that is 4.2W add some 10-15% losses, that is around 5W input power, now that is around 8.8 hours of runtime based on 44W available power.



Ok. I'll do the .5A overnight tonight and see how it goes.


----------



## Giocomo

mikkowus said:


> Ok. I'll do the .5A overnight tonight and see how it goes.




Alright, just be careful not to use Turbo, that will drain the cells dry.


----------



## fonfan

Arrived. Doesn't work with flat top batteries. Use 8x1 mm magnets. M45's indicator shows 70-80% power with LG INR18650 MJ1 3500mAh (10A).


----------



## richbuff

"Cool White - XP-L HI" selection is now listed on the International Outdoor site. 

It looks like the XP-L HI in this light is not going to yield anything close to the 50% increase in lumens over the XP-L, which was reported in another forum a few weeks or so ago. But, I will stay tooned!


----------



## carl

Yep. Not as much of an increase in output as we hoped for but still way more than I need for sure. The best thing about the HI is consistent whiter tint. 

I wonder if it gets hotter faster than the XPG2 versions. Probably. 

Also, if I recall correctly, the XPL-DD output was 8540 lumens and 44,000cd so the numbers seem close with the HI. Now all we need are beamshots from somebody...


The new XLP-HI specs from Int'l Outdoor:

Cool White - XP-L HI V3 ( +$70.00 )

CW XP-L HI V3 8350lm 44,000cd 5700K



I hope Cree makes an HI version of the XPG2 but since it is an old product line (I think the XPG2 came out in 2012), I don't think they're going to spend $$$ on revamping it with an HI version.


----------



## carl

double post


----------



## carl

fonfan said:


> Arrived. Doesn't work with flat top batteries. Use 8x1 mm magnets. M45's indicator shows 70-80% power with LG INR18650 MJ1 3500mAh (10A).



FYI, a quick research about rare-earth magnet materials on Google will show that they are very poor electrical conductors. The bulk of the conduction may be occurring through the thin nickel plate covering the magnets. This makes the magnets ok for lower currents during battery-charging but that's about it - we can't expect to get full turbo output on the M43. 

I have flat-top MJ1's and I've made some 6-7mm diameter copper discs (went to Home Depot and bought some copper plumbing connectors for raw copper material) which I plan to coat with solder and put them on top each battery. Solder isn't the best conductor either so I will try to keep the solder thickness to a minimum. The solder will help provide a softer-nonscratch surface to prevent scratching the gold plate on the M43 head and also prevent the copper surface from tarnishing and oxidizing.


----------



## Seattle Sparky

carl said:


> FYI, a quick research about rare-earth magnet materials on Google will show that they are very poor electrical conductors. The bulk of the conduction may be occurring through the thin nickel plate covering the magnets. This makes the magnets ok for lower currents during battery-charging but that's about it - we can't expect to get full turbo output on the M43.
> 
> I have flat-top MJ1's and I've made some 6-7mm diameter copper discs (went to Home Depot and bought some copper plumbing connectors for raw copper material) which I plan to coat with solder and put them on top each battery. Solder isn't the best conductor either so I will try to keep the solder thickness to a minimum. The solder will help provide a softer-nonscratch surface to prevent scratching the gold plate on the M43 head and also prevent the copper surface from tarnishing and oxidizing.



Agreed, magnets are poor conductors.
I heard that plumbers grade copper isn't as pure as the one found in electrical wires. To convert flat tops to button tops I made little coils out of solid 14 gauge wire, soldered them and applied a tiny amount of epoxy on the sides to ensure a strong hold.


----------



## Giocomo

richbuff said:


> It looks like the XP-L HI in this light is not going to yield anything close to the 50% increase in lumens over the XP-L, which was reported in another forum a few weeks or so ago. But, I will stay tooned!


What official documentation even sustains such absurdity?


----------



## richbuff

"It looks like the XP-L HI in this light is not going to yield anything close to the 50% increase in lumens over the XP-L, which was reported in another forum a few weeks or so ago. But, I will stay tooned!"



Giocomo said:


> What official documentation even sustains such absurdity?


None. No official documentation, just lengthy, insistent reporting by someone over there (who has 8677 posts) that the XP-L HI in the M43 yields 12,000 lumens. 

Well, anyway, it looks like the XP-L HI in this light is not going to yield anything close to the 50% increase in lumens over the XP-L, which was reported in another forum a few weeks or so ago.


----------



## Giocomo

richbuff said:


> "It looks like the XP-L HI in this light is not going to yield anything close to the 50% increase in lumens over the XP-L, which was reported in another forum a few weeks or so ago. But, I will stay tooned!"
> 
> None. No official documentation, just lengthy, insistent reporting by someone over there (who has 8677 posts) that the XP-L HI in the M43 yields 12,000 lumens.
> 
> Well, anyway, it looks like the XP-L HI in this light is not going to yield anything close to the 50% increase in lumens over the XP-L, which was reported in another forum a few weeks or so ago.




No commercial product will be 50% more efficient than rated and surely no low-end bin as used, ratings are so tight on these LEDs, even from bin to bin we are talking improvements of 0% to max 7%. http://flashlightwiki.com/Brightness_Bins
You can see Vinh's results are in line with the CREE documentation for a high bin. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Best-of-2015&p=4693251&viewfull=1#post4693251


----------



## stateoftheart

Seattle Sparky said:


> Agreed, magnets are poor conductors.
> I heard that plumbers grade copper isn't as pure as the one found in electrical wires. To convert flat tops to button tops I made little coils out of solid 14 gauge wire, soldered them and applied a tiny amount of epoxy on the sides to ensure a strong hold.




Brilliant Idea


----------



## carl

Seattle Sparky said:


> Agreed, magnets are poor conductors.
> I heard that plumbers grade copper isn't as pure as the one found in electrical wires. To convert flat tops to button tops I made little coils out of solid 14 gauge wire, soldered them and applied a tiny amount of epoxy on the sides to ensure a strong hold.



I tried to do the same thing with 16 or 18 gauge soft copper wire but couldn't make the loops small enough in diameter - not nearly as easy as I had imagined, LOL. How did you roll the wire into such a small loop? Did you heat it first?


----------



## Seattle Sparky

carl said:


> I tried to do the same thing with 16 or 18 gauge soft copper wire but couldn't make the loops small enough in diameter - not nearly as easy as I had imagined, LOL. How did you roll the wire into such a small loop? Did you heat it first?


i wish I could post a picture but I need to figure out the hosting service. Basically, I used needle nose pliers and channel locks.


----------



## Fireclaw18

I think a better way to convert a flat top to a button top would be the following:

1. Get some copper sheet and cut a tiny square out of it with some tin snips.
2 Cut the corners off the square to make an octagon, then round the corners with a handfile to make a disk.
3. Place some solder paste on top of the battery + terminal
4. Place the disk onto the solder paste.
5. Place the battery upright into a small vice.
6. Use a toothpick, fine tweezers or masking tape to hold the disk on leaving the center of the circle exposed.
7. Touch the tip of a soldering iron to the top of the disk. Watch the bottom edge of the disk. As soon as the solder turns shiny remove the iron.


----------



## mikkowus

Seattle Sparky said:


> i wish I could post a picture but I need to figure out the hosting service. Basically, I used needle nose pliers and channel locks.



http://imgur.com/


----------



## mikkowus

Fireclaw18 said:


> I think a better way to convert a flat top to a button top would be the following:
> 
> 1. Get some copper sheet and cut a tiny square out of it with some tin snips.
> 2 Cut the corners off the square to make an octagon, then round the corners with a handfile to make a disk.
> 3. Place some solder paste on top of the battery + terminal
> 4. Place the disk onto the solder paste.
> 5. Place the battery upright into a small vice.
> 6. Use a toothpick, fine tweezers or masking tape to hold the disk on leaving the center of the circle exposed.
> 7. Touch the tip of a soldering iron to the top of the disk. Watch the bottom edge of the disk. As soon as the solder turns shiny remove the iron.



That seems like a decent plan. I'll probably go with something like that. It will depend on what kind of copper I find.


----------



## mikkowus

Giocomo said:


> Alright, just be careful not to use Turbo, that will drain the cells dry.



I ran it overnight at .5 amps using the 3000 mAh LG INR18650-HG2 batteries recommended by intl-outdoors . I checked it at 9.5 hours and the led in the button was solid red. I checked it again at 10.5 hours and the button was blinking red. I then ran the thing overnight in a canoe race and the red led switched on at around 5 or 6 hours so I turned it down to a lower setting to be safe. I should test the light again to see when the red led turns on. Thing had great spread which was awesome for reading the river in the night.


----------



## markr6

mikkowus said:


> I ran it overnight at .5 amps using the 3000 mAh LG INR18650-HG2 batteries recommended by intl-outdoors . I checked it at 9.5 hours and the led in the button was solid red. I checked it again at 10.5 hours and the button was blinking red. I then ran the thing overnight in a canoe race and the red led switched on at around 5 or 6 hours so I turned it down to a lower setting to be safe. I should test the light again to see when the red led turns on. Thing had great spread which was awesome for reading the river in the night.



This was the one on the Au Sable, right? Must have been a great time! Glad it worked out well for you.


----------



## mikkowus

markr6 said:


> This was the one on the Au Sable, right? Must have been a great time! Glad it worked out well for you.



Yes. It worked great. The best thing about it was the spread. Great for.picking lines and readings the bottom of the river. Can't say I saw a better light. What's funny is the next day I opened my trunk and it wasn't stowed away properly and it fell on the ground cracking the lense. Need to find a replacement lense now.


----------



## markr6

mikkowus said:


> Yes. It worked great. The best thing about it was the spread. Great for.picking lines and readings the bottom of the river. Can't say I saw a better light. What's funny is the next day I opened my trunk and it wasn't stowed away properly and it fell on the ground cracking the lense. Need to find a replacement lense now.



OH NO! That's the problem with fat, heavy multi-cell lights...they fall HARD! I thought I felt a mini earthquake down here recently


----------



## mikkowus

markr6 said:


> OH NO! That's the problem with fat, heavy multi-cell lights...they fall HARD! I thought I felt a mini earthquake down here recently



Been searching around. I can't seem to find replacement parts specifically for the Meteor but I have come across lenses being sold that are a specific diameter and thickness. Would anyone happen to know the thickness and diameter of the m43 lens?


----------



## markr6

mikkowus said:


> Been searching around. I can't seem to find replacement parts specifically for the Meteor but I have come across lenses being sold that are a specific diameter and thickness. Would anyone happen to know the thickness and diameter of the m43 lens?



I would email vinh at [email protected] since he's probably got some taken apart for modding anyway (M43vn). I'm guessing he would be kind enough to measure. Or maybe Hank at intl-outdoor.com would sell one separately, but the last email I tried to send bounced back so I don't know what's going on there.


----------



## newbie66

Ouch! Dropping it is must hurt. :eeksign:


----------



## mikkowus

markr6 said:


> I would email vinh at [email protected] since he's probably got some taken apart for modding anyway (M43vn). I'm guessing he would be kind enough to measure. Or maybe Hank at intl-outdoor.com would sell one separately, but the last email I tried to send bounced back so I don't know what's going on there.



He told me to talk to [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][email protected] and they would send me a lense. They said they would, and for $10 they are shipping me one. Hopefully I'll see it soon  Maybe I should have ordered a handful just in case.[/FONT]


----------



## carl

repeat post


----------



## carl

Here are some photos of the new M43 XLP-HI:

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3922653842

Unfortunately, there is nothing new to see since it looks like all the other M43s (lol) and no beamshots yet. We need beamshots!


----------



## markr6

carl said:


> Here are some photos of the new M43 XLP-HI:
> 
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3922653842
> 
> Unfortunately, there is nothing new to see since it looks like all the other M43s (lol) and no beamshots yet. We need beamshots!



Flashlight porn, cartoon porn...a little something for everyone!


----------



## leon2245

*STEP INTO THE NOCTIGON!*

im not reading five hundred replies to see if anyone (including me) has already done that. It might even be their slogan, idk. If it's not, it probably should be.


----------



## markr6

leon2245 said:


> *STEP INTO THE NOCTIGON!*
> 
> im not reading five hundred replies to see if anyone (including me) has already done that. It might even be their slogan, idk. If it's not, it probably should be.



LOL!!! How did I not think of this.


----------



## more_vampires

leon2245 said:


> *STEP INTO THE NOCTIGON!*
> 
> im not reading five hundred replies to see if anyone (including me) has already done that. It might even be their slogan, idk. If it's not, it probably should be.


After three seasons in the Noctigon, there's one thing... and one thing only... that's going to happen when we step into that ring....

...it's probably going to be very well lit, guys.


----------



## carl

The Outdoor Store just removed the option to purchase the XPL-HI - maybe catching up on orders? I hope this is temporary.


----------



## more_vampires

carl said:


> The Outdoor Store just removed the option to purchase the XPL-HI - maybe catching up on orders? I hope this is temporary.


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?401615-M43vn-Best-of-2015
*



+ FREE Factory XPG2 Dedome
+ $50 XPG2 PDTc 
+ $95 XPL HI 6500K
+ $185 Quad XHP70 Mule

Click to expand...

*


----------



## Fra881

I noticed my M43 XP-G2 3D makes noise when in strobe mode, do yours sound too?


----------



## more_vampires

Sorry to hear that, fra881. Mine has no hum. It's like a lottery whether or not a light will do that. Different examples of the same light might or might not do it.

Noticed no audibles with my m43. Got lucky.


----------



## Giocomo

Extremely strange, as there is not the the slightest noise in any mode, and I got very good hearing. Are you sure the cells have a good contact?


----------



## Fra881

Is it extremely strange or is it just a lottery and some lights do so? I don't mind if it doesn't mean there's a bigger problem.

Yes contact is correct.

Also I just noticed both my SC62 and my TN12 2014 do the same so I guess it's normal.


----------



## cool_torch_bro

Hey guys, long time reader, first time poster. I recently purchased the Noticgon (M43 S2 DeDomed) and thought I'd chuck up a couple of beamshot comparisons between popular Nitecore torches. All pictures were taken on DSLR with the following fixed settings: Fstop f/3.5 ISO 3200 1/3 second exposure and neutral white balance. The torches were set up on a tripod next to the camera at one end of a rugby field, so the goal posts are exactly 100m (328ft) away and the trees behind and to the left are approximately 120m away.


----------



## cool_torch_bro

cool_torch_bro said:


> Hey guys, long time reader, first time poster. I recently purchased the Noticgon (M43 S2 DeDomed) and thought I'd chuck up a couple of beamshot comparisons between popular Nitecore torches. All pictures were taken on DSLR with the following fixed settings: Fstop f/3.5 ISO 3200 1/3 second exposure and neutral white balance. The torches were set up on a tripod next to the camera at one end of a rugby field, so the goal posts are exactly 100m (328ft) away and the trees behind and to the left are approximately 120m away.



Sorry Images didn't attach for some reason


----------



## JoeSW

Cool Torches Bro! Very nice beam shots. And I am getting more convinced I should be getting an M43. Especially looking at my soon to come TM16 beam shots. Ughhhh.....


----------



## cool_torch_bro

JoeSW said:


> Cool Torches Bro! Very nice beam shots. And I am getting more convinced I should be getting an M43. Especially looking at my soon to come TM16 beam shots. Ughhhh.....



Thanks. Not sure why some of them doubled up but you get the idea. I forgot to say the settings I used got the camera as close as I could get to what the naked eye could see (brightness/colour tint).


----------



## richbuff

Thanks for the beamshots! TM16 and M43 are looking good! :welcome:


----------



## more_vampires

Fra881 said:


> Is it extremely strange or is it just a lottery and some lights do so? I don't mind if it doesn't mean there's a bigger problem.
> 
> Yes contact is correct.
> 
> Also I just noticed both my SC62 and my TN12 2014 do the same so I guess it's normal.


Can you hear CRT old TV sets? I can't anymore. Too much uhh... Experience. If I hear flashlight whine, it's pretty bad of an example.


----------



## Giocomo

more_vampires said:


> Can you hear CRT old TV sets? I can't anymore. Too much uhh... Experience. If I hear flashlight whine, it's pretty bad of an example.



How many flashlights whine on Strobe even if they whine on any other constant mode, I have flashlights that whine hard on constant modes, but I cannot hear a whine on Strobe. 

I find it quite strange how some other lights whine on Strobe for Fra881.


----------



## KenSrf

cool_torch_bro said:


> Thanks. Not sure why some of them doubled up but you get the idea. I forgot to say the settings I used got the camera as close as I could get to what the naked eye could see (brightness/colour tint).


Great shots! Do you know approximately how far is the tree in the middle?


----------



## markr6

richbuff said:


> Thanks for the beamshots! TM16 and M43 are looking good! :welcome:



Yes they are! Can't wait to get my TM16 back from some modding. I miss my M43 but I think the TM16 was a good decision.


----------



## more_vampires

Some people are sensitive to high frequency. PWM lights tend to be the worst offenders.

Gunfire, windblast and lots of vibration tend to take away your high frequency hearing first.  It's what happened to me.


----------



## Giocomo

more_vampires said:


> Some people are sensitive to high frequency. PWM lights tend to be the worst offenders.



M43 is not a PWM light and neither SC62 is, however the issues is these light are producing whining in in Strobe mode, which is a pulsed mode, so it has a very low frequency (like 4hz 10Hz 16Hz), after all the output is pulsed because you can't have strobe otherwise.


----------



## Fra881

yes it's not a constant whine, it's rhythmic in phase with the strobe. I believe it's normal.

However I had a (real?) problem last night with the M43, I was testing it a bit in different modes since I just got it and after a few minutes I lost turbo. For example in UI1 putting the light in high and then holding for momentary turbo the output didn't change. Also, I believe high was a bit reduced in output itself. It was also slightly flickering like it was trying to adjust its brightness. Batteries fully charged, LG HG2 as recommended.

The light wasn't very hot, but still I tried to let the light cool for 10 minutes, tried turbo again but still the same situation. I had to unscrew and screw back the body and it started to work again, like I did a "reset".

Any idea? I'm writing Hank as well, I hope it won't happen again but I didn't have the chance to try the light again yet.


----------



## StudFreeman

Fra881,
Sounds like your light may have a bad ground connection. I read somewhere that a loose screw in the driver PCB could be the culprit.


----------



## Giocomo

Bad ground connection can cause flicker and also whine noises indeed. Make sure you don't have grease on the contact point either (driver ground ring and battery tube that contacts to the driver ground ring).


----------



## cool_torch_bro

KenSrf said:


> Great shots! Do you know approximately how far is the tree in the middle?


Cheers buddy! The tree's to the left (as you look at the picture) of the goal posts are approx 120m away and the tree line behind the posts is about 130-140m away


----------



## cool_torch_bro

richbuff said:


> Thanks for the beamshots! TM16 and M43 are looking good! :welcome:



Thanks  It was pretty cold with a slight haze/fog in the air so they're not as clear as I'd like


----------



## Fra881

Giocomo said:


> Bad ground connection can cause flicker and also whine noises indeed. Make sure you don't have grease on the contact point either (driver ground ring and battery tube that contacts to the driver ground ring).



I actually found a bit of grease on the contact point, good call 
I didn't think it could compromise the contact but in such a high driven light it is reasonable that it could induce a significant voltage drop. I'll test the light tonight and see if it worked!


----------



## more_vampires

My M43 refuses to work with protected cells. Even the mighty AW was not suitable. 

I use 30 amp Sonty VTC5 and finally it works.

My M43 is going "back to the shop" because the springs are too short to make contact. Short or sagged springs can do some weirdness as well.


----------



## mhanlen

Mine worked fine with my 2600mah Sanyo ur18650fm protected cells. Didn't have four of any other to try it with though. In fact the brightness seemed more stable with the sanyos vs the LGs HE2s... But that was probably do to the LGs allowing the light to pump out more and the thermal regulation kicking in.


----------



## seasam

more_vampires said:


> My M43 refuses to work with protected cells. Even the mighty AW was not suitable.
> 
> I use 30 amp Sonty VTC5 and finally it works.
> 
> My M43 is going "back to the shop" because the springs are too short to make contact. Short or sagged springs can do some weirdness as well.



why not just stretch/pull the springs back out yourself? as you discovered, it's not a good idea to alternate between short and long batteries with these springs. I discovered the same thing when using this spring in single cell lights


----------



## more_vampires

seasam said:


> why not just stretch/pull the springs back out yourself? as you discovered, it's not a good idea to alternate between short and long batteries with these springs. I discovered the same thing when using this spring in single cell lights


Good point, but I was toying of the idea getting xp-g2 swapped with xpl hi s3. I'm still on the fence.


----------



## cool_torch_bro

more_vampires said:


> My M43 refuses to work with protected cells. Even the mighty AW was not suitable.
> 
> I use 30 amp Sonty VTC5 and finally it works.
> 
> My M43 is going "back to the shop" because the springs are too short to make contact. Short or sagged springs can do some weirdness as well.



My M43 works with protected Panasonic NCR18650B batteries but won't go to turbo. I have to use Samsung INR-25R to use turbo


----------



## mmander

cool_torch_bro said:


> My M43 works with protected Panasonic NCR18650B batteries but won't go to turbo. I have to use Samsung INR-25R to use turbo



I am using the new protected KeepPower 3500mAh 18650 batteries (Sanyo NCR18650GA cells inside), rated for 10 amp continuous discharge, in my M43vn (Nichia 219B LEDs), and they work perfectly in turbo for extended periods of time - never had a protection circuit trip. Not sure how they would fare in an M43 with XP-L or XP-G2 emitters though, since it might draw more current than the Nichia version? When I had tried my EagleTac 3400mAh batteries with their lower amperage protection circuits, they would trip on turbo after a short time, presumably after the initial voltage sag would increase the required turbo mode current flow beyond the max allowable amperage.

However I'd say that any of my protected cells are too tight for comfort in my M43vn, even the relatively short EagleTacs. Maybe mine is particularly tight due to Vinh's extra current carrying wire mod on the rear springs? In any case, I modded my M43vn with some solid brass washers as detailed in this posting...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Best-of-2015&p=4699008&viewfull=1#post4699008

Here is a shot of the four washers I placed under the rear contact board. With them in place, the protected KeepPower cells (68.9mm long) fit just fine and it doesn't feel like I am about to crush them when the light is screwed shut. Absolutely loving my M43 by the way, what an absolutely awesome little light!


----------



## Giocomo

mmander said:


> Not sure how they would fare in an M43 with XP-L or XP-G2 emitters though, since it might draw more current than the Nichia version?



The draw is the same, the difference in output is made by the efficiency of each LED model, for example the XP-G2 S4 outputs more lumen for the same energy consumption as the Nichia emitter.


----------



## Pöbel

while NCR18650GA may work, you are still sacrificing runtime or even output. The Voltage sag is much higher than with proper high drain cells. This means the capacity which can be extracted until the cut-off voltage (on turbo) is reached is LESS than with lower capacity high drain cells.

Actually the protection circuit by itsself introduces additional resistane = voltage sag which reduces runtime. There is no point in bridging springs for lower resistance but adding additional resistance with washers + protected batteries.

With such high drain configurations it's all about minimizing resistance wherever you can.


----------



## richbuff

Pöbel said:


> while NCR18650GA may work, you are still sacrificing runtime or even output. The Voltage sag is much higher than with proper high drain cells. This means the capacity which can be extracted until the cut-off voltage (on turbo) is reached is LESS than with lower capacity high drain cells.
> 
> Actually the protection circuit by itsself introduces additional resistane = voltage sag which reduces runtime. *There is no point in bridging springs for lower resistance but adding additional resistance with washers + protected batteries.*
> 
> With such high drain configurations it's all about minimizing resistance wherever you can.


Please clarify the bold part of your content. You are saying that there is no need to bridge spring to attempt to get lower resistance, correct? 

And using protected batteries adds resistance.

Are you also saying that adding washers also adds resistance?

What are your thoughts on adding flat brass to the springs, to increase the contact area of the spring and battery? 

Thank you for your informative content; I just want to be sure I am not confused.


----------



## mmander

Pöbel said:


> while NCR18650GA may work, you are still sacrificing runtime or even output. The Voltage sag is much higher than with proper high drain cells. This means the capacity which can be extracted until the cut-off voltage (on turbo) is reached is LESS than with lower capacity high drain cells.
> 
> Actually the protection circuit by itsself introduces additional resistane = voltage sag which reduces runtime. There is no point in bridging springs for lower resistance but adding additional resistance with washers + protected batteries.
> 
> With such high drain configurations it's all about minimizing resistance wherever you can.



For me, very short bursts of turbo will be all I need and I will probably mainly be using the light on the two low and two medium modes (in UI2). I presume for running at 4 amps or below, there is indeed a runtime benefit of a 3500 mAH protected cell versus, for example, something like a 2600 mAh Sony VTC5? Hopefully there is, since that is why I got them! I do understand about the greater voltage sag of non-high-drain cells, but my impression was that the NCR18650GA cells were actually still quite respectable at slightly higher currents? If I were planning on running the light on turbo for extended periods, then I could see the benefit of high drain cells perhaps, but heck, the light becomes too hot to hold after about 3 minutes on turbo anyway... :sweat:

With regards to the added brass washers and the protection circuits in the batteries, won't those be fine with a 4 amp or less load (high mode and lower) and not affect output or runtimes appreciably? As I had mentioned, there was zero visible drop in lumens of even turbo output after adding those brass washers, but of course that was with those protected cells and not high drains. My only high drain cells are flat-top Sony VTC5s which won't work in the light without modification. In fact, I even recall doing a turbo output test when the batteries were well in the red indication zone (tested at about 3.6 volts I think) and even there, the light still managed full brightness turbo output (multiple several second bursts), and was just as bright as when the cells were at 4.2 volts fresh off the charger. In any case, comparing it to another light I have (a highly boosted and copper heat-sinked K40Mvn) that is likely running at around 3900-ish lumens on fresh Sony VTC5s, my M43vn, with its brass washers, protected cells and all, still manages to be noticeably brighter on a ceiling bounce comparison, so I suspect it's probably outputting at roughly its rated 4450 lumens. :shrug:

Personally, I wouldn't have even wanted those bridged springs since the bridging wires and soldering actually prevent the springs from smoothly and fully compressing with longer batteries, however it was a good deal on a slightly used light that I couldn't pass up. I might try to order a new stock contact spring plate from the factory. Actually, I would think the point of highest resistance is the contact of the springs against the cells since that seems like it would have the least overall surface area for current to flow? Surely my brass washers will offer overall far less resistance than that?

But then, what do I know... I haven't been messing with high output lights for very long at all... :thinking:


----------



## mmander

richbuff said:


> Please clarify the bold part of your content. You are saying that there is no need to bridge spring to attempt to get lower resistance, correct?



Yes, I believe the point he was trying to make was that since I was using protected cells and had added those brass washers, both of which presumably will add to the overall resistance of the circuit, it was a bit pointless to bother having the bridging wires in place. However the impression I get is that he believes if I were running true high-drain unprotected cells and had not added those brass washers, then there may be a real benefit to adding those bridging wires?

I don't know though... with such a small contact area of the springs to the cells, I don't really see how the bridging wires will help all that much? Maybe they will help the springs from heating up to much and losing their tension with extended turbo runs?

I am curious as well about your suggestion of adding a flat brass (or copper?) contact pads to the springs. However I wonder what the resistance of solder is, which is presumably how you would attach them, and if there would be any real benefit in the end? If there were, you'd think more high output lights would come from the factory with copper spring pads, or at the very least, modded lights would have them installed as an option...?


----------



## Pöbel

your assumptions are right. high capacity cells will have advantages if you use lower modes. If the cell is partially depleted they might not be able to sustain turbo due to the higher resistance of the cell, protection and washers. 

The springs in this light are some of the very best (if not the best) you can get. there are tests on blf. This comes at the price of decreased mechanical properties and that is the reason why a cell length range is given. 

using longer cells will compress the springs too much and they will not return to original length. 

I do not think that the springs can be improved much in this light

Ps:
currently the best high drain cells are the Samsung 30q and the famous LGs. 3000mAh and the least sag under load. As the Meteor does cut off way above 2,5V it's doubtful if you can gain any extra runtime from 3400/600 ICR batteries at all.


----------



## mmander

Pöbel said:


> As the Meteor does cut off way above 2,5V it's doubtful if you can gain any extra runtime from 3400/600 ICR batteries at all.



Thank you for the feedback. Based on the bar-graph shown in the M43 manual, I presume the light cuts off at 3.0 volts then? I have not tried running down a set of batteries in it yet...


----------



## carl

On BLF, the discussion was about how the springs can take a permanent set in their compressed state due to high heat/high current on turbo mode. Soldering a wire bypass will help this situation. 

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/37697?page=35#comment-798501


----------



## Pöbel

Sorry but this is not true.

The spring's material has less memory than other springs, but it's conductivity is way better. They shorten due to mechanical load, not due to heat. Bypassing won't change anything. Even the resistance is so low, that a bypass will not really improve anything. This is also why a specific cell length is required for the meteor. 

you can read the post by hank from intl-outdoor where he stated all this: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/35228#comment-669502


----------



## Fireclaw18

Pöbel said:


> Sorry but this is not true.
> 
> The spring's material has less memory than other springs, but it's conductivity is way better. They shorten due to mechanical load, not due to heat. Bypassing won't change anything. Even the resistance is so low, that a bypass will not really improve anything. This is also why a specific cell length is required for the meteor.
> 
> you can read the post by hank from intl-outdoor where he stated all this: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/35228#comment-669502




Agreed.

Personally, I think the best way to handle springs is to use steel springs, but then have a bypass made from copper wire curling around the outside of the spring soldered to the top and bottom. Such a setup gives even less electrical resistance than the low resistance springs in the M43, while retaining much more mechanical strength.

Downside is its more difficult to manufacture. Springs without bypasses are much easier for production lights ... even high-end enthusiast designed ones like the M43.


----------



## Pöbel

Yes. The restrictions in cell length are a direct result of the springs used in the metor. You have to keep the mechanical compression within a certain margin to be safe.

Steel springs + bypass would be more foolproof. But with this being a dragster light I can understand the choices made. It does not have to be as foolproof as a mass market light, as it can be expected that the buyer has invested a bit more thought in his hobby.


----------



## Giocomo

Talking about the M43 that I use the springs have not compressed so far, other flashlights using the same springs, different situation, probably would be good not to mix all in one.


----------



## ezacarias

Finally got my Nichia version from Mountain Electronics. Came in today with the 4 purple Efests. Very nice quality light coming from the meteor . 
I'll probably need to get more batteries, looks like my existing protected Thrunite's 3400 too long.


----------



## markr6

I'm still surprised there are no solid runtimes on this light other than the video on High modes, unless I missed them. Maybe since there are so many flavors (Nichia, XPG, XPL, etc)?


----------



## cagenuts

There are but because you sent yours back, the M43 secret police have blocked you from viewing them.


----------



## more_vampires

markr6 said:


> I'm still surprised there are no solid runtimes on this light other than the video on High modes, unless I missed them. Maybe since there are so many flavors (Nichia, XPG, XPL, etc)?


Not to mention 100% user defined modes on ui group 3....


----------



## markr6

cagenuts said:


> There are but because you sent your back, the M43 secret police have blocked you from viewing these.



LOL!!!! NOOOOOooooooo!


----------



## dc38

8A on max...probably 4A to each 6 led cluster. 
If you take your total cell capacity (12Ah) and divide by draw (8A) and take into account a 15% to 22% loss of efficiency due to heat or contacts or supported battery current or general inefficiencies, you get ~70 minutes including the temp throttle. Include the fact that most chargers charge only to 4.2v and many high drain batteries charge to 4.35v for max capacity accounts for maybe another 5-15% of losses, so realistic overall runtime would be about an hour on max.

On the 4A mode, basically follow the same estimations as above, or double the calculated runtime for half the draw. You get about 2 hours and 15 minutes accounting for less inefficiencies from heat loss.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

dc38 said:


> 8A on max...probably 4A to each 6 led cluster.
> If you take your total cell capacity (12Ah) and divide by draw (8A) and take into account a 15% to 22% loss of efficiency due to heat or contacts or supported battery current or general inefficiencies, you get ~70 minutes including the temp throttle. Include the fact that most chargers charge only to 4.2v and many high drain batteries charge to 4.35v for max capacity accounts for maybe another 5-15% of losses, so realistic overall runtime would be about an hour on max.
> 
> On the 4A mode, basically follow the same estimations as above, or double the calculated runtime for half the draw. You get about 2 hours and 15 minutes accounting for less inefficiencies from heat loss.



Just a note, many of the 4.35v cells are not 'high current' cells in the manner that the M43 treats cells.

I think early on in this thread, it was mentioned that 8A per cell is probably in the ballpark and 4.35v cells aren't the answer, at least on MAX turbo output.

Chris


----------



## dc38

Ballparking is exactly what my method is designed to do, using logic


----------



## efendi

does anybody know who is the manufacturer? mountain electronics??


----------



## Fireclaw18

efendi said:


> does anybody know who is the manufacturer? mountain electronics??



Wasn't Hank at International Outdoors the one who was getting these built?


----------



## carl

Yes, Hank who is a forum member at BudgetLightForum (BLF) and owns the International Outdoor site is the maker. His official M43 sales thread on BLF is:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/39027 

However, the two US dealers - International Outdoor and Mountain Electronics are both out of stock of the M43 as of last week. Hank had previously stated he was making 300 units and then going to decide whether there was enough demand to build more. I don't know if the 300 units have been made and sold at this point nor whether any more will be made. Interesting situation...I sure hope more M43s will be made but who knows? If not, I'm sure some used units will eventually go up for sale.


----------



## carl

M43s are back in stock at International Outdoor! Good news!


----------



## markr6

carl said:


> M43s are back in stock at International Outdoor! Good news!



Oooh an additional *TAN *color this time! Not my cup of tea, but looks good.


----------



## Giocomo

markr6 said:


> Oooh an additional *TAN *color this time! Not my cup of tea, but looks good.



*M43* is not your cup of tea as far as I remember.

The new color is superb.


----------



## markr6

Giocomo said:


> *M43* is not your cup of tea as far as I remember.
> 
> The new color is superb.



Yes, neither into the color or the light itself. But I can't argue it's one amazing light. Crazy good price for what you get too.


----------



## ChibiM

Here a comparison picture from Hank`s website.. (posted on my Flickr account)



M43_02 by Chibi M, on Flickr


----------



## markr6

I wasn't going to hotlink the image, but


----------



## Toolboxkid

This light is a great value and very useful, the UI takes a bit to master, but totally worth it. The new colors look great too!


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## Fireclaw18

wow the tan looks great!

I have the black one with dedomed XPG2. It has typical dedomed greenish tint, but the throw from such a small flooder is pretty amazing. My meter measures peak throw at 96k lux making it both my brightest and my throwiest light.

I've been using this light to help watercolor and acrylic paint dry. Pull out the M43, shine it at the art project from an inch away for 5 seconds or so and whatever I was working on is instantly dry. Just gotta make sure to turn my head to the side so I don't get blinded.


----------



## carl

This seems like a new second batch of lights with a new color added. I wonder if any internal changes were made (springs, UI, etc.)?


----------



## Oztorchfreak

I asked Richard at Mountain Electronics about the next shipment of M43 lights.

He said "There is another production run in progress and the lights should be available now in 1 to 2 weeks time". 


*YES you beauty!!!*



*CHEERS*


----------



## carl

Anyone have any new pics of the sandstone version?


The latest you tube of the M43:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq91ZX-gLRg


----------



## davpet

The sandstone color version is on its way to me from intl-outdoor.com. I will be comparing it to the updated Lupine TL 2. I am mainly interested in finding the highest level the light is able to function for (let's say) 30 minutes in a room with no cooling, without the thermal sensor stepping in and lowering the output.


----------



## plata0190

does anyone tried to install flat button 18650 on the M43?


----------



## more_vampires

plata0190 said:


> does anyone tried to install flat button 18650 on the M43?


It no worky.  It's how the contact in the head is designed. Button top or nothing.


----------



## ven

plata0190 said:


> does anyone tried to install flat button 18650 on the M43?




Solder blob!




Just a thought


----------



## more_vampires

Does your blob go flat at the 8 amp max of the M43? I was kind of concerned with that as I've seen softening solder in my 10440 lights where I had to go from "flat top" to "blob top."

Guess I was worried of the solder going to water and shorting something.


----------



## ven

Dont have an m43 to test:mecry: cant see it though, if it got hot enough to melt then the cells are in trouble!

Highest A i know of(not sure what the A ask of the tk75vnq70 is) but the mm15vn is 6.5a iirc and fine.......

Vinh would be the one to ask, sure he would not " blob" them if the case I did notice on the tm06vn the blobs (added to tail cap)did not even show any slight sine of wear ,solid!! enough so to push the tops in of button or flat on the cells a tad............


----------



## more_vampires

Oh, okay. I'll just go blob some sony VTC5 and see if they win.  I happen to have four spares handy.


----------



## ven

more_vampires said:


> Oh, okay. I'll just go blob some sony VTC5 and see if they win.  I happen to have four spares handy.



You will win!!!!

vamps 1 ..........blob melt 0

Edit-check with vinh in case a certain solder!!!

Just a thought


----------



## more_vampires

I was going to use silver high temp elec. I think lead-acid core would be inappropriate, low melting temp.

Victory over the darkness!


----------



## ven

:thumbsup:


----------



## carl

more_vampires said:


> I was going to use silver high temp elec.



There is also the concern on the hi-temp end of heating up the battery too much.


----------



## more_vampires

carl said:


> There is also the concern on the hi-temp end of heating up the battery too much.


Oh yes, I was holding my breath and trying to work super fast and just trying to hit it once last time I blobbed some batteries.

I don't feel that you get many "do-overs" when soldering on the battery positive. Makes me nervous.

Haven't gotten to it yet, but will this week as I was wanting to show some folks a certain M43 with VTC5 in it. Wish me luck! (and my lungs.)


----------



## davpet

Finally my sandstone M43 has arrived! It's beautiful, I like almost everything about this light, except the not recessed, very easy to press switch.

Here is a 10 minutes comparison of the M43 vs Betty TL 2. Same spot, same room temp. Note, that I used NCR18650B batteries in the M43, the high drain ones haven't arrived yet. Probably this is the reason that at 30 sec., it is not too much brighter than the supposedly 5000 lumen Betty. (or the Betty is a bit underrated, I don't know)

Y axis is LUX


----------



## fnsooner

^^Thanks, I would love to see the difference when the high drainers come in. What LED option did you choose?


----------



## Giocomo

Davpet in order to measure lumens you need an integrated sphere, there have been talks how the ceiling bounce does not offer true percentage difference between flashlights, at least not that percentage difference that you can get while comparing rated lumen values on paper.
Other than that, make sure you are on Turbo not High. BTW you can always lock the button., that's what I do.


----------



## davpet

Giocomo said:


> Davpet in order to measure lumens you need an integrated sphere, there have been talks how the ceiling bounce does not offer true percentage difference between flashlights, at least not that percentage difference that you can get while comparing rated lumen values on paper.
> Other than that, make sure you are on Turbo not High. BTW you can always lock the button., that's what I do.



Yeah, but still, I think my measurements represent real life lumens output pretty well. And, don't forget that the chart is mainly for showing the thermal management of both lights. We can conclude that the m43 is a bit "stronger", but not by more than 1000 lumens or sg like that. I will rerun the test with high drain batteries, and make it longer. I will also test the lights using lower, maybe 2500-3000 Lumens output, to see which one maintains set output for a longer time. Still, I found it interesting that the Lupine kept up with the Noctigon, while being much lighter and smaller.

I know that I can lock the switch, but for ex. Zebralight switches are still better.


----------



## davpet

fnsooner said:


> ^^Thanks, I would love to see the difference when the high drainers come in. What LED option did you choose?



I chose the S4 2B, 5700 Kelvin/7450 Lm option. I think that the high drain batteries will provide a higher initial output, but after a few minutes there will be no big difference. Actually I was quite surprised that the M43 lowered its output so much. I expected it to have a higher constant output than the Lupine. On the other hand, the Lupine is like 4x more expensive, and has XM-L2 U4 leds, so it's good to know that you don't pay for nothing. I think that right now these are the two best handheld flooders available. I wish Zebralight came out with an updated S6330 that could compete with this two.


----------



## Esko

I am thinking I might buy this light. During the last 2 weeks, I have read the whole BLF thread and am more than halfway through this thread (+some pages of Vinh's thread). 

It is mentioned that protected cells are not supported. However, AFAIK many people have used protected cells (even though it may have led to lowered output on turbo/high). Could someone recommend me a good place to buy protected 18650 high capacity high drain/hybrid cells that fit this light? Mountain Electronics has some that might be suitable (if they fit; this one having the highest discharge current) but they don't seem to be available in their international store and the shipping costs + customs/taxes would at least double the costs, too. 

Also, is there any space between the end cap and the board beneath that? Just thinking if copper sheet/plate could be added between the spring board and the flashlight body, making it possible to use slightly longer batteries.

Why protected? Because I want my batteries protected and i don't want to risk inserting empty and fully charged batteries in parallel. As far as I have understood it can't be safely done in Meteor. Even worse, the battery compartment would already be tightly sealed once the batteries make contact with each other.



carl said:


> This seems like a new second batch of lights with a new color added. I wonder if any internal changes were made (springs, UI, etc.)?



Also, any information about this? Especially regarding the springs since there were a few flattened springs issues reported. I suspect that this is more likely to be a problem with longer (protected) cells.


----------



## Giocomo

Esko said:


> Why protected? Because I want my batteries protected and i don't want to risk inserting empty and fully charged batteries in parallel. As far as I have understood it can't be safely done in Meteor. Even worse, the battery compartment would already be tightly sealed once the batteries make contact with each other.



You assume that TN36 or MM15 which have the series in series are any safer than a full parallel circuitry? Yes those flashlight have the cells in series, even if for example in the MM15 just appears to you they are in parallel.
In the M43 since the cells are fully parallel so they will balance out because the weak cells draw current from the fully charged or more powerful cells. 
Li-ion is no joke, and you should always know if a cell it is charged or fully depleted, that way you could take advantage of the parallel electrical connection and actually use only 3 cells if a 4th one is depleted anyway, you can't do that with those aforementioned flashlights or with non-high-drain cells.


----------



## fnsooner

@Esko, this doesn't exactly answer your question about protected batteries to use in this light but Hank at Int-outdoors specifically recommended the Panasonic 3400 mAh 18650 Protected Battery(sold on his site). I have not used them though and can‘t vouch for them. Our discussion was also centered around the optimal battery length to use in the Meteor. The high current needs were not discussed.:thinking:


----------



## davpet

I am starting to think that with the LG INR18650-HG2 high drain cells I ordered, the output will be significantly higher. Right now I use ThruNite branded protected 3400 mAh NCR18650B cells that came with the TN36. I thought that they will be able to handle max. level on the M43, but when I switch on turbo - even with fully charged batteries - the light immediately blinks twice to indicate "weak or discharged batteries" according to the manual.


----------



## richbuff

Recent post in at another forum: Hank says that the most current production batch of Meteors will have slightly shorter battery tubes, thus protected batteries will not work anymore. 

I have been using genuine purple Efest 35A 2500mAh unprotected IMR with spectacular results.


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## Esko

Giocomo said:


> You assume that TN36 or MM15 which have the series in series are any safer than a full parallel circuitry?



No. Just indicating that the parallel cells could be on different circuits but it looks like the batteries are directly connected on both ends in Meteor. Parallel or series, they both have their own safety hazards. Except in that particular Zebralight model (if I have understood it correctly).

I just want my lights with enthusiast level performance and 'for dummies' level safety.

-> fnsooner

I guess I forgot reading that. Interesting though, considering that those cells are not meant for such a high drain.



richbuff said:


> Recent post in at another forum: Hank says that the most current production batch of Meteors will have slightly shorter battery tubes, thus protected batteries will not work anymore.



Really? What a bummer. I can't really understand this kind of change. One 'feature' was that when needed, and in emergency, it could be powered with 3, 2 or even 1 battery. Well, after this change it can be powered with a lot less batteries. Was it needed for the light to be shorter than the magical 10,0 cm? The only advantage that I can see is that the light can be made some 2mm shorter and that is a very minor advantage.

I guess I need to contact Hank directly and ask about the possible battery length.


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## richbuff

Esko said:


> .. ... ....I can't really understand this kind of change. .... ... ..


Maybe because this will result in a tighter spring fit, with the shorter unprotected high drain IMR batteries that this light needs in order for the flashlight to perform as intended? Tighter spring fit for the shorter batteries is the desired result, to compensate for the mushy springs, that comes from using ultra low electrical resistance spring metal, which in turn does not have the best mechanical spring properties.


----------



## Esko

richbuff said:


> Maybe because this will result in a tighter spring fit, with the shorter unprotected high drain IMR batteries that this light needs in order for the flashlight to perform as intended? Tighter spring fit for the shorter batteries is the desired result, to compensate for the mushy springs, that comes from using ultra low electrical resistance spring metal, which in turn does not have the best mechanical spring properties.



This is possible.. Although my first thought about it was quite different. I thought that because the springs will be almost totally flattened with unprotected batteries, the possible flattened spring issue might affect them as well now. Perhaps I thought it wrong.


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## mhanlen

Protected cells used to work, now they don't. I tested one of the original units, and now I own one of the updated sandstone units. Protected cells won't work on the new ones, because the battery tube is slightly shorter. I've tried several varieties of cells that worked in the original run, and they don't now. If you want to run protected cells in this light, buy one from the original run. I don't know when the change was made. It seems like this run is the first it's been disclosed.


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## stateoftheart

Thought I'd give a photo or two.


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## stateoftheart

I'm definately feeling the added solder and bypass wired has helped up the output.


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## Pöbel

very unlikely! Did you measure it?


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## fnsooner

Thanks for the pics stateoftheart. Just so I know what I am looking at for sure, those are the original springs fortified with braided copper wire to enhance current capabilities?


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## Giocomo

fnsooner said:


> Thanks for the pics stateoftheart. Just so I know what I am looking at for sure, those are the original springs fortified with braided copper wire to enhance current capabilities?



I have explained and measured before the springs resistance before, claiming such improvement is absurd, loses are negligible in the true sense of the word.


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## fnsooner

I was trying to determine if the springs themselves had been changed. I agree with you that little can be done to improve upon the original springs so far as resistance is concerned. My point of interest is the mechanical operation of the springs, not the electrical.


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## stateoftheart

Its all about contact area I'm not going to bicker with you. The chap that's against most of this (the spring designer / chinese developer) throughout the thread himself admitted it makes a great difference. Maybe ask Vihn and don't take my word for it go and explore. Look within this thread and the end if the below linked thread. A lot of us are experiencing problems with spring deformity and associated connection problems. http://http://budgetlightforum.com/node/37697?page=39


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## more_vampires

Lol, if it doesn't work at all then why is it a common mod here?

As far as how much of an effect? The most I've read about is about 100 lumens, not enough to discern without equipment @1000lm.

Is it silly to do this little trick for 3lm and that little trick for 50 lm and current boost by 50ma when you can't see the difference? Maybe, but this is CPF and if my light is 2 lumens brighter then yours then that's what it's all about being an enthusiast. 

Like how drag racing can be won or lost by fractions of a second?


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## stateoftheart

Its up to 200 to 300 lumens on a single 18650 cell flashlight. The guy offering such a weak argument is something to do with the failing product ie springs becoming deformed after 10 minutes of use. They need modding or replacing so that we can use the darn thing.


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## more_vampires

M43 v2 has a shorter body and different spring setup, IIRC. My M43's springs like to squash and take a set. It's the tail cap and 4 screws to get to them and stretch them out again.

Maybe they should have gone with triple pogo pins for each battery instead?


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## stateoftheart

The springs are no good period they are not springs they are curled pieces of copper that have *no spring in them to be blunt.

*Edit: Very little lasting springiness that we are used to.


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## fnsooner

I made the statement above that I thought there was little that could be done to improve the resistance in the spring circuitry. While true, that is what I am thinking at the moment, it is something I haven't thought much about and may be incorrect. My point of emphasis is on the squashing of the springs. It is not something I am even all that concerned about but if someone came up with a remedy, I am interested.

The maximum output stock, makes me happy.


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## stateoftheart

I have not heard of a V2 coming out, when was this. How are they going to address all of the problems people are having V1of the product. We shouldn't have to be taking the thing apart and bending so called copper springs back every 10 minutes should we? That being said even if its shorter if it uses the same springs there will be problems.

To answer your question there's definately a noticable difference on turbo. The solder has made the springs towards the bottom and top of the spring a lot more sturdy as it has fused a couple of the springs wires together. The flat blob of solder on the top of each spring is about half a mil higher too which helps. I did have to bend the springs back after using the light for less that two charged battery cycles which led to me doing the mod. The picture shows my 3 revision of the mod which had the braid twisting twice around the spring so when it is compressed there will be more connections. Its not the best job as I'm in Asia rolling with a standard 5mm iron. Its easy do it. I have done the mod on my solar force reverse clicky switch with qlite 3.04A driver and nitecore sportac triple nichia drop in with very noticable increase in output. Search for Vihns threads about the solarforce clicky upgrade spring bypass mod.

Put it this way if you didn't mod your running less efficient for starters.


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## more_vampires

@SotA, Can't find the link right now. It's not a full blown gen 2, just a minor rev.

I think it's in the pipe and not quite out yet.


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## fnsooner

i think there is some confusion about V2. From what I can tell, there was a pass around light early on that allowed longer protected cells to be used but the production light came in a little shorter. I may be wrong about this. 

I own a stone white variant that I bought a couple of months ago and a sandstone variant that I recently received. Both appear to be identical in all aspects except color.


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## stateoftheart

You said it was shorter and had different spec springs? Now your saying it doesn't exist...! Come one guys...

Here's the bypass on the solar force reverse clicky. Much better battery contact area as time goes on it gets better as well as the solder is soft and shapes to the flat of the battery.







And in the spirit of CPF what are we all about? Custom modding and building of flashlights 

Tip: to get the retaining pin out of the switch instead of posh pliers the scissors of a leatherman micra fit perfectly. I was devastated when I accidentally left my last one in my hand luggage. The scissors became blunt after 6 years so I contacted leatherman and they said they could either replace it or resharpen under the limetime warranty forever with no proof of purchase required. Then on the way home it got snaffled up by the airport baggage staff.


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## fnsooner

stateoftheart said:


> You said it was shorter and had different spec springs? Now your saying it doesn't exist...! Come one guys...



Where did I say that?


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## fnsooner

I want to make a couple of comments about the Meteor now that I have had time to appraise. I like it. I think that the spring situation stems from the designers trying to make this light as compact as possible. In doing so they decided to go with a parallel battery configuration. This in turn, supplied a low voltage to the electronics. If I remember ohms law correctly, the lower the voltage, the higher the amperage. 

This higher than normal amperage(compared to four batteries in series) led the designers to go with unconventional spring material to handle the current. If there is a flaw in what I am thinking, I am open to correction. This is just what is rolling around in my noggin.

I like what Hank at Int-outdoors is doing. They are a small start up trying to do cutting edge stuff and at the moment, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt. I don’t bring up the squashed spring thing to complain, but to see if others have the same problems and discuss fixes. If I was disappointed in this light, I would have sent my first one back and definitely would not have bought a second. 

I also think that if there is an eventual remedy, that it lies in the redesign of the spring PCB which would be a relatively cheap part to buy and install. If there is no remedy, I can work around it.


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## stateoftheart

Not you but it is said in post 628 by more Vampires. I am responding to that.

Quote:
M43 v2 has a shorter body and different spring setup, IIRC. My M43's springs like to squash and take a set. It's the tail cap and 4 screws to get to them and stretch them out again.

Maybe they should have gone with triple pogo pins for each battery instead?


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## stateoftheart

Your talking about amps and springs there are four batteries and four springs. Its the same as a single 18650 light with a single spring running at high amps at 3.7V. Take a mcclicky (spring) for instance, would be perfect for the job. Like on the photo on the BLF thread I referred you to. Making the light longer / shorter will not solve the dodgy spring issue if they still use them just compound it.

I think you need to draw it out and try and understand ohms law in the first instance.

You seem to be pulling the torch apart on BLF so why you being Devils advocate over here. 

No offense its just banter and facts ;-)


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## more_vampires

Lol! Ease up peoples! 

I heard that v2 was coming out and that it's shorter body tube, protected batts will likely be a bit long for it now. Any other changes, I've no reliable info at this time.

What I heard is that it's extremely soon. I'd post the link if I could find it.


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## mhanlen

more_vampires said:


> Lol! Ease up peoples!
> 
> I heard that v2 was coming out and that it's shorter body tube, protected batts will likely be a bit long for it now. Any other changes, I've no reliable info at this time.
> 
> What I heard is that it's extremely soon. I'd post the link if I could find it.




This change has already been made. I have one of the current run and protected cells no longer fit.


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## stateoftheart

I like what Hanks doing too but I don't like the Chinese designers pretending to be consumers trying to defend the springs on an unbiased basis. It erks me.

So because they are sticking with these springs we can only use one type of cell in either version of the light. Its like they are designing the light around the springs for gods sake. It this a joke.

So my take is that V2 of the light has more limitations that V1. With V1 you can get around the springs by modding (like my photo or similar - replace springs) them so that both types of cells fit. But with V2 you cant use protected cells at all which is brilliant and you can as an added benefit maybe blow yourself up as an inexperienced unprotected cell user. Thumbs up for the brilliant fix, it sounds a bit Chinese to me.


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## more_vampires

Heh, I will defend no flaw in my beloved flashlights.

M43 V1 springs: SUCK. 
M43 V2 springs: don't know, don't have one (yet.)

Aside from that, the M43 is pretty spiffy, found no real problems yet.


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## stateoftheart

Why would you buy a V2 to find out, it makes no sense to me as I have explained above. It makes sense returning the V1 for a V3 that allows you to use whatever cells you want. Its not rocket science all flashlights for the past decade have had no problems in engineering this feature. As I said its like they are designing their light around the non springy springs which is utterly butterly.


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## stateoftheart

I have found another issue with this light keep turbo on for a prolonged period of time and the glue around certain areas of the lens / optics starts to melt. It has as condensation like appearance which I see becoming an issue with continued use.


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## fnsooner

@state-of-the-art, all I ever did at BLF was state facts about my light. If you sensed frustration on my part over there, it had to do with them turning a blind eye to the problem. I wasn’t tearing down the light, I was just wanting to discuss the springs and felt I was getting the cold shoulder and felt I was being treated as a boat rocker. I also think that the subject hasn’t gotten enough discussion over here. 

I didn’t get interested in this light until a couple of months ago and I attempted to read through as much info as I could and am sure I missed a page or two. Maybe it has been discussed and I missed it.

As far as my thoughts on why Hank and company made the decision to go the way they did on the springs, I said that I may be wrong about it. Thanks for clearing it up.


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## stateoftheart

There's a couple of people here who I feel are trying to oust us too. I believe they are charading and are the Chinese designers of the light / springs. After all they didn't design the light a Russian did they just reengineered it for the commercial market and probably added the spring as their amazing design feature. They think theres a million bucks in marketing curled copper with no springiness. I'm just speculating though.

My two cents worth is 'change the springs in the M43' period. In fact offer all V1 owners a new spring MCPCB so that we can use the light to its fullest. We can then easily unscrew the old one and jobs a good one. 

I dread to imagine anyone using this as a bike light or a security guard actually moving with it..... One bump in the night and no light ridiculous. Its like we on the R&D without first putting the theory into practice.

I want to point out again that contact resistance or thermal resistance between two metals plays a significant role in the flashlight circuit between the spring and the battery cathode. That's why we see in premium lights like HDS contact boards are used on the end of the springs even in low powered lights.


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## fnsooner

^^I think you may be right.


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## fnsooner

On a different note, while reading up on this light, I noticed a few people breaking the lens and asking to get a replacement. Knowing me and my tendency to break an occasional lens, I decided to to be pro-active and I ordered some 60mm acrylic lenses for mine from flashlightlens.com. They are a little bit thicker but seem to work flawlessly.


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## stateoftheart

You broke the glue free from the optics then. You went further into the light than me. Aside from the springs this is one of my favourite lights and I've sort of fixed it now anyway. Amazing job with the emitter board noctigon. On the prototype which I posted a picture (posts 405 and 406) of earlier the driver board was hand made by the russian chap, looks amazing. It had two more power chips meaning the LEDs would see 12A. Brilliant I bet it had a larger sink would of loved to be able to buy this hand made version at a premium.

Keep the pictures coming everyone. Its good to be able to see through a few CPFers windows.


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## fnsooner

The optics and black plate are not glued in place on mine. The lens holds every thing together. No rattles at all. Maybe the melted glue thing is why they changed it. It seems like I remember someone mentioning the change to make it easier for modders to work with. Hmm.


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## stateoftheart

Is there an O-ring between the glass lens and the bezel and between the glass lens and the black plastic thing. If not then thats why its smashing on impact. I mean if the glass is seated against anything metal without the protection of orings it will break very easily with a small impact.


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## dssguy1

I just figured my optics were loose because Vinh needed to take them off during his modding. 

Is there anyway to know if I have a V1 or V2? What are the tube length differences between the two?

Side note, Efest 18650 35A are working fine.


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## fnsooner

Yes, there is a red O-ring. Now that I think about it, the tolerances would have to be exceptionally tight for the lens to hold the optics in place _*and*_ make good enough contact with the O-ring to ensure that it is water proof.


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## stateoftheart

What did Vihn do to it have you got any pictures for us dssguy1? You would be able to tell by measuring the tube. Has there been definitive confirmation that there is a V2 or is it a rumour.

So there's no chance for the oring to be compromised and the glass to sit against the metal? I see the red oring on the head but is there one protecting the glass from the metal bezel?


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## dssguy1

That black piece that separates the 4 optics is Metal, not plastic. 

I can't remember for sure but I think the glass was pushing directly on the metal optics separator and the optics. 

No o-ring that I can remember. I think if there was, the optics would wiggle around because they were pretty loose in there.


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## dssguy1

I had Vinh give it the Goldilocks treatment. 8 XPG2 pdtc + 4 S3 3D Dedome. 

And all the heat sink extras like extra solder on driver, Arctic silver, complete thermal padding of driver.


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## stateoftheart

If that's the case the glass lens is being crushed against the metal on the edges compromising its integrity severely. Its asking to be broken with a cherry on top. I'm sure you could put an oring between the glass and the metal black thing and between the glass and the bezel and that would further compress the optics in a good way.
I don't want to open mine I always get hairs and dust in there. Wish I had a semiconductor lab.

I see what you mean just looked and it would benefit from an oring under the bezel where the bezel is up against the glass on the inside of the bezel. So as you screwed down the bezel it would compress the onion ring on the top of the glass instead of the undrside of the metal bezel directly touching the glass.


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## more_vampires

> I don't want to open mine I always get hairs and dust in there. Wish I had a semiconductor lab.


You could go into a very small room and start spraying water mist, attempting to grab the dust and drag it down. It's sort of a ghetto clean room.


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## fnsooner

There is no O-ring between the bezel and lens. When screwing and unscrewing the bezel, it glides against the lens.

My two battery tubes are 73.06mm and 73.011. The measurements vary slightly as you work around the diameter of the tube with calipers. If you are reading Hikelite, I have calipers now.:thumbsup:


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## stateoftheart

It would greatly benefit from an oring between the lens and the bezel or on the other side where the black separator is. It seems at the moment the lens has no play so any shock will break the lens which is a nightmare. Problem is the oring will move/twist when twisting the bezel on the bezel side so no go, and might cause problems with seating of optics if placed between the black separator and the glass.

It would be ideal if there was a thin plastic spacer ring between the bezel and the glass and a proper oring beneath the lens for play.

Good idea with the acrylic lens though how much are they. Are they on Hanks account ;-)


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## dssguy1

If you put an o-ring under the glass, nothing will hold the optics in place. 

I'll check, maybe the black spacer holds them down but I think they fell forward when I unscrewed it.


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## stateoftheart

I made some edits to my last post dssguy1 have a look. Yes I'm feeling a little insecure about the robustness of the lights lens with any small impact now. I read on another thread in BLF that someone broke their lens dropping the light from about a foot?

So now we are saying that with a small bump the light goes off cos of the springs and the lens smashes compromising the IP rating, so if its raining its a gonner.

It should say on the instructions not for external use and only use on carpeted areas ;-) Lol

I really think they don't care about the longevity of this build as much as some other manufacturers would. Has anyone done a water test on the M43?


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## fnsooner

On mine, when I remove the lens, the optics protrude slightly taller than the black plate. I guess the whole tightening of the glass against the optics wedges the black plate in place without allowing it to shake around.

I got the acrylic lenses at flashlightlens.com here in the states. They were $7.00 a piece plus $2.50 shipping.


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## stateoftheart

Definately a good idea the acrylic if you plan using your M43 in a boy scout like fashion then. What's the stuff that surefire use for their lenses.


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## stateoftheart

Found this thread which talks about high powered flashlights and plastic lenses.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?170015-Glass-or-Plastic-lenses-Which-is-better


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?136577-Is-a-glass-lens-actually-better-than-a-plastic-one&highlight=


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## fnsooner

Here is a link to the stuff I am using. If it doesn't work out, I still have the glass to go back in. I am not worried about slight performance drops using acrylic, if there is any. I'll trade that for durability. It is just an experiment to see how it works out. 

Also, I have operated my M43s at maximum through a few rounds of batteries, with the acrylic lenses, to see how everything works out. No problems whatsoever. If it doesn't work out, no harm no foul.


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## stateoftheart

It looks good and for 7 dols you have the backup of flashlight lens.com as well. I hear you. Definately sounds like a viable replacement.

I was just looking and its very hard to find a 60mm mineral glass lens or standard glass lens anyway.

Let us know how you get on.


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## Pöbel

The Opctics are plastic, so a plastic lens shouldn't be a problem 

regarding the springs:

you are right in the fact that the light in stock form will not work with different battery lengths or you will run into spring troubles. If the battery length is right though, there is no benefit in bypassing the springs. It's a trade of with limitations, I hope we can agree on that.
An ideal solution would of course be a Design which has no problems in accomodating different length batteries but still keep the low resistance.

You also need to keep in mind that there are not many commercial lights (that I am aware of) which tax the batteries with 7+ Amps.


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## stateoftheart

I sort of agree with you but there's a lot of semi commercial lights that have similar currents that use a McClicky spring with no problem. All the latest large scale manufacturers of the pop can lights like Fenix and others use their own standard springs which draw similar currents as well.

I like the idea of using a piece of copper wire coiled tightly into a circle for a pad which could then be soldered to the top of the spring.


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## Pöbel

yes, but all the other lights are in series or 2s2p so higher reistance in the springs can be tolerated as there is more voltage. I think the parallel aproach is safer but also harder to do properly if you do not want to waste efficiancy.

Your contact pad idea would still require a spring bypass. It's either a springy spring + bypass or a spongy spring without bypass


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## stateoftheart

I dont think your series parallel agruement is valid.

What about single 18650 P60 lights they use the same topology / low voltage circuit as the meteor with 3.7V high current draw drivers ( up to 12A plus) There has been no problems just using the high amperage Mcclicky spring with added benefit of a pad (in some cases) for contact resistance benefits. We have been using this setup and other high amperage springs (springy type) with no problems on this forum for years. Again see vihns P60 modification threads and other high amperage / amps. / current clicky switch threads which have been here for years.

Again using bypass on springs and contact pads will help dramatically reduce the overall resistance of the circuit in any voltage arrangement. I believe in the case of the meteor upwards of 600 lumens.

The point I am trying to make is why design a light around shonkey springs which gives it ridiculous limitations when you can use time tested arrangements we have been using on lights here for years. Its not rocket science to find a real spring.


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## Pöbel

But all these lights you mention are direct drive. I have a 15+A single 18650 FET Triple light as well. Bypassed springs on both ends!

You get those incredible output and amperage numbers on fresh batteries, dropping rapidly. These are nice hod-rods. On fresh batteries there is enough voltage to accept a slight drop over the springs.
The meteor on the other hand is a production light which manages to keep the high output during a major part of the discharge curve, albeit with a boost circuit. If you want to achieve high output with partially depleted cells and thus even less cell voltage it's absolutely imperative to keep the resistance as low as possible. Otherwise you will never achieve a rather constant output.

None of those hot rod lights will come anywhere near the initial output with a partially depleted battery.

I'm not defending the springs as THE solution. There are major disadvantages with this particular design. It limits battery choice bigtime. But with the right battery lenght it at least works as intended.


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## plata0190

stateoftheart said:


> There's a couple of people here who I feel are trying to oust us too. I believe they are charading and are the Chinese designers of the light / springs. After all they didn't design the light a Russian did they just reengineered it for the commercial market and probably added the spring as their amazing design feature. They think theres a million bucks in marketing curled copper with no springiness. I'm just speculating though


The M43 was invented and manufactured by a russian? than the production did in China for costs, but that's because the manual is in russian. Is it right?


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## stateoftheart

Hi Poebel not really it's exactly the same let's do the numbers for you again. Say on a single 18650 flashlight we have a regulated low voltage (same as meteor for the battery circuit) powering a triple at say 6A-7A regulated. This is exactly the same as 4 18650 and 4 triples as we have in the meteor circuit wise. Except that in the regulated 6A single 18650 flashlight it has a spring that works so you don't have an arguement. Stop trying to deviate away from the problem with surreal arguements. The high amperage springs we have been using here for years will handle 6-7A fine even 10A without bypass at 3.7V. Do you want me to post links for you...

It doesnt matter whether the things direct drive or regulated there are hundreds of builds that can handle 6A regulated with real springs. The meteor is not built to run all the batteries at 6-7 amps for a prolonged period of time either (that's why it shuts down very quickly on turbo)......that's only for pocket rocket small interval use. If pocket rocket turbo is used for a prolonged time I'm sure it will degrade much faster.

Generally the meteor will be running at 3-4A per spring for a good medium high level for a prolonged period. Why design the springs for 7A for prolonged period when it shuts down after a short time. If what you are saying is correct its another design fail on the springs.


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## stateoftheart

It wasnt manufactured by the Russian it was designed by him and then his prototype was taken to be reengineered / manufactured for profitable commercial use (have a look at the posts I referred to with pictures showing the hand built prototype driver and the reengineered machine built driver. I'm sure he didn't have the springs in his version though.


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## more_vampires

The Meteor can run on 1, 2, 3, or 4 batteries AFAIK.


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## stateoftheart

We are talking about the reason they have used their so called superman springs in that they can handle the maximum running current of 7A per spring at 3.7V. What I am saying is the spring they are using is a design failiure in that it is not a spring, its a coil of copper wire.

Whether it can run a lower levels on lesser batteries for emergencies is irrelevant.

Let's get back onto why there is bare metal against the glass lens giving it no play on either side and how we can fix this without buying an acrylic lens, and if this thing is really water resistant.

I think we would all agree that in the V3 they should throw the springs in the bin and source some real springs so we can use whatever batteries we want


----------



## fnsooner

While you guys are hashing out the electrical side of things, I am going to ponder the mechanical side and think out loud. My focal point will be on a remedy for the problem of the light turning off when smacked on the tail. 

First thing, I am not a modder and would never attempt to solder and resolder on the original springs/board for fear a ruining my 200 dollar light. So, I have a couple of spring and board assemblies being shipped to me. I am thinking maybe trying to install a traditional spring with a smaller diameter inside of the original spring. Hopefully this would give the original springs some support and keep the batteries from jarring loose from the contacts at the head. It might even accidentally help with strengthening the contact point of the spring to the battery. Any flaws to my plan?

It may take a while to get the spare parts sent to me. Any one have any suggestions on springs to use for this purpose. Maybe point me towards a “beginners modifier get started kit” tools and supplies. All support would be welcome.


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## stateoftheart

You want to be careful with putting floating bits and pieces in the battery tube because of the possibility in turning your light into a bomb with shorts. Are you thinking of gluing them in instead of soldering. Bad idea with that advice someone could have a few digits missing by the end of it.


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## more_vampires

> Any flaws to my plan?


Sounds fine to me. Even if the auxiliary springs are attached in no way, they'd be held captive by the larger springs.

The dimensions of the battery holes are such that no spring could slip down to the head... the only location that a short is possible. Battery + must touch the light body in some way for there to be a short.

Threat level? Negligible.



> You want to be careful with putting floating bits and pieces in the battery tube because of the possibility in turning your light into a bomb with shorts.


Loose piece of wire? I agree. Captive or soldered auxiliary spring? No threat. If it WERE a threat, then lights with triple tail contacts would take themselves apart the moment you screwed the light together.


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## fnsooner

I would definitely solder them in place. Probably underneath the little bent part of the original spring that comes in contact with the battery.


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## stateoftheart

Go ahead then but I don't advise having loose springs anywhere near the battery tube its schoolboy


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## more_vampires

stateoftheart said:


> Go ahead then but I don't advise having loose springs anywhere near the battery tube its schoolboy


How will it be a problem? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.


----------



## stateoftheart

The whole idea is shifty dont you think. He said he wasnt soldering now he's saying he is. If he's soldering just do a proper job and don't half *** around. OK if its loose as per his original post if somehow the spring (springs will be springs) gets trapped between the battery tube and the top brass ring it would cause quite a short. This could be achieved very easily them being loose even if it is anodized, as you could accidentally crush the spring into the corner and remove the anodizing. That's just one example others are bursting the batteries, getting trapped inbetween the non anodised circuit path etc etc


----------



## more_vampires

...but the battery negative has continuity with the light body. Battery + to the light body is a short. Battery - to the light body is normal operation. The light body itself is battery negative. The body connects to driver which connects to battery positive. Bypassing the driver with battery + to the body is a short.

If it were me, I'd solder the springs.



> somehow the spring (springs will be springs) gets trapped between the battery tube and the top brass ring it would cause quite a short.


Yeah, but I don't see how that would happen. You're looking at battery + as you prepare to screw the light head on. You'd see it if a spring were up there.


----------



## stateoftheart

I'm talking about the 'Top Brass Ring' in the head of the light which is +. There is no Brass Ring in the spring MPCB.

Have another read of my post.

Where are you in your bedroom with your light on to see these things. Some of us venture out with our torches into the nighttime.


----------



## fnsooner

stateoftheart said:


> The whole idea is shifty dont you think. He said he wasnt soldering now he's saying he is.



I said I wouldn't solder on the original spring PCB. I have ordered some extras to solder on.


----------



## stateoftheart

What are you going to solder to then another floater. Your making me laugh now. Both of you should come on Blue Peter over here and show em how its done


----------



## fnsooner

you need to learn to read.


----------



## stateoftheart

Come on less of the talking and writing and more of the done and dusted pictures then.

You could solder to your hearts content on the original spring MCPCB all day and no problems would arise its all solid copper metal. If you wanted to start again just heat and suck the solder up or blow it off the old school way.


----------



## fnsooner

Read my posts, then have intelligent responses.


----------



## stateoftheart

Don't be offended but you did sound a little funny saying you were placing springs in springs on the original MCPCB and not soldering cos you were worried. Reminds me of Leondaro Di Caprio in Inception a dream within a dream, a spring within a spring.


----------



## more_vampires

CPF Rule #4, guys. Keep it civil.

Anyway, there is no safety risk to captive or soldered secondary springs. In fact, I think it's a good idea and am considering it myself in my M43.

Then again Vinh just announced his current boost mod on the M43vn is almost ready! WOO! I think I might have no choice but to send mine back to him for his "Goldilocks" job.


----------



## stateoftheart

I'm the one offering the most modded pictures here alas I feel I've brought more to the table in the spirit of CPF.

So what about the glass lens oring issue? Are they going to keep breaking with minimal desk dropping or is there a viable fix to address the no play.

OK if you soldered them in its probably a good idea however I like the addition of contact pad and bypass wires myself.

Just looking at Vihns Vn model I'm happy with the standard version but I did notice on the photo on page 14 of his thread that he solders bypass wires to each of the springs for this mod.


----------



## Giocomo

Vinh's 6% improvement while doing major overhauling, springs, thermal paste, thermal pads, resistors etc.. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Best-of-2015&p=4657173&viewfull=1#post4657173
It is not a major thing considering the improvement comes from all the mods, not from the spring mod.


----------



## stateoftheart

stateoftheart said:


> I'm the one offering the most modded pictures here alas I feel I've brought more to the table in the spirit of CPF.
> 
> So what about the glass lens oring issue? Are they going to keep breaking with minimal desk dropping or is there a viable fix to address the no play.
> 
> OK if you soldered them in its probably a good idea however I like the addition of contact pad and bypass wires myself.
> 
> Just looking at Vihns Vn model I'm happy with the standard version but I did notice on the photo on page 14 of his thread that he solders bypass wires to each of the springs for this mod.





Giocomo said:


> Vinh's 6% improvement while doing major overhauling, springs, thermal paste, thermal pads, resistors etc..
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Best-of-2015&p=4657173&viewfull=1#post4657173
> It is not a major thing considering the improvement comes from all the mods, not from the spring mod.



What did he do with the resistors? He said he could not change anything around bumping the original output up, by messing with originial Meteor driver circuitry. The only thing he's done is improve heatsinking and add bypass wires. Its the bypass wires that would be the only thing that would increase the output here in his mod (heat sinking does not change the circuit at all, it maybe allows longer running of the circuit due to the temp sensor kicking in later). 6℅ is awesome (calculate the lumens) maybe with a contact pad or additional wire we would get 10%.......

What have you got against us improving the problematic springs. Your always putting a downer on things. At least this far into the thread you are now agreeing that modding the springs works. But you say only the lonely 6%......come on less of the downers mate.

Where you the one that got the meteor reduced in length in the V2. Brilliant idea BTW....Now we have people introducing washers into the base to increase the length (so they can use batteries lol - see post 558), what a joke.

Sorry to say this as per my previous posts but shaving a bit of the body off to reduce the length in the V2 causes further limitations in the design of the light. It was probably cheaper for you to find a 'quick fix' by doing this but it has not fixed anything only caused less functionality. I presume you did this out of cost as its much cheaper / easier to shave the body than introduce proper springs and admit fault to all the V1 owners. My opinion the V1 is presently better than the V2 as it can use all types of batteries.


----------



## more_vampires

> What did he do with the resistors? He said he could not change anything around bumping the original output up, by messing with originial Meteor driver circuitry. The only thing he's done is improve heatsinking and add bypass wires.


You're right, he said that, but then he had a dream.

I'm not joking. He had a dream one night of how to do it. VNX2 Goldilocks was born. 

He had to get extreme with it, non-reversible mod. It's a bit risky, too!


----------



## stateoftheart

more_vampires said:


> You're right, he said that, but then he had a dream.
> 
> I'm not joking. He had a dream one night of how to do it. VNX2 Goldilocks was born.
> 
> He had to get extreme with it, non-reversible mod. It's a bit risky, too!



Really can't be as risky as your captive spring idea . 

Did he change resistors or just change / dedome a few emitters.


----------



## more_vampires

He hacked a new driver in there, his digital switch newest rev board... VNX2.

Apparently, it's a heck of a lot of work.


----------



## stateoftheart

more_vampires said:


> He hacked a new driver in there, his digital switch newest rev board... VNX2.
> 
> Apparently, it's a heck of a lot of work.



For 6%?


----------



## more_vampires

His numbers aren't final yet. VNX2 Goldilocks is right about to drop. 6%? He hasn't said that.


----------



## stateoftheart

I think Giocomo was talking about his original mod which had no driver mods only heat sinking and spring bypass with 6% gain in ouput? It seems Vihn is using the V2 version of the light which can only use non protected batteries.


----------



## more_vampires

Vinh? Protected batteries? Never!


----------



## Esko

Discussion has been wild I see. I can't speak from experience with this light but I find it strange if significant improvements can be gained using spring bypasses (or such). As far as I know, the current springs were chosen in order to get minimal losses. Conductivity first, elasticity second.



fnsooner said:


> First thing, I am not a modder and would never attempt to solder and resolder on the original springs/board for fear a ruining my 200 dollar light. So, I have a couple of spring and board assemblies being shipped to me. I am thinking maybe trying to install a traditional spring with a smaller diameter inside of the original spring. Hopefully this would give the original springs some support and keep the batteries from jarring loose from the contacts at the head. It might even accidentally help with strengthening the contact point of the spring to the battery. Any flaws to my plan?



Spring travel will become shorter. The new springs should be rather strong (at least close to as strong as the original ones, preferably stronger). They don't necessarily prevent the deforming of original springs but if they are strong enough, they will lift them up again (adding new springs doesn't affect the amount of compression, just the force needed for it).

Regarding my original questions, I did contact Hank and he told that the protected cells don't fit any more. However, there are some older (longer) battery tubes still available and I could get the light with one upon request. I guess that is what I will be ordering.

So, no recommendations/suggestions regarding the protected batteries? Or good dealers that sell them (internationally)?


----------



## more_vampires

LOL!



vinhnguyen54 said:


> I found the dual springs design above to be superior to the regular wire attachment design. I will use this design more where I can. Cost will be up a tiny bit for the extra work and costs of springs but its worth it.


Muahaha! The soon-to-be-available M43 Goldilocks shall have dual springs! It will be miiiiiiiiine!


----------



## markr6

I feel like we're bored and reached a glass ceiling in performance...so we're talking about springs. I was somewhat critical about the M43 but really had no real problems with it.


----------



## fnsooner

This is what my double spring idea is trying to remedy.


It has nothing to do with eeking out more lumens. I am happy with the maximum output of my stock Meteor.


----------



## markr6

Damn that's ridiculous. I didn't try that on mine, so I guess I wouldn't have known about it since I no longer have it. I had a fenix E11 that did that; very annoying.


----------



## stateoftheart

Double spring looks pretty good there I'll admit. Let's see your finished product then.

Can't believe someone is talking about how good the springs are again. Where have they been.

When your shocking the light with that much force (so it loses connection) fnsooner make sure youve got your acrylic lens in or it might break the standard glass lens :-(


----------



## fnsooner

The spare spring MCPCBs are on the slow boat from China(I hope) and may take a few weeks. I will gather the springs and soldering supplies before then and may take a whack at the originals. We’ll see.


----------



## stateoftheart

Here's another one that looks quite nice.







Hope he didn't do all these last night.

I've got no spring in my step any more.


----------



## Esko

fnsooner said:


> This is what my double spring idea is trying to remedy.
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with eeking out more lumens. I am happy with the maximum output of my stock Meteor.




Ok, this looks pretty stupid. However, wouldn't it be quite a bit easier to solve this problem by adding one wide and stiff spring in the middle of the whole board?


----------



## fnsooner

Esko said:


> However, wouldn't it be quite a bit easier to solve this problem by adding one wide and stiff spring in the middle of the whole board?



Possibly. The problem I see with this is that if you put a spring in the middle, you would need to support all four batteries and that support would be on the wrapper part of the cell. Probably not ideal and I am not sure that it would be easier. Either way, I think the most difficult thing is to find the ideal size springs. Once everything is gathered up, the actual solder job shouldn’t be too bad.


----------



## fnsooner

markr6 said:


> Damn that's ridiculous. I didn't try that on mine, so I guess I wouldn't have known about it since I no longer have it. I had a fenix E11 that did that; very annoying.



Yeah, the light is almost perfect except for this. This whole ordeal reminds me of the joke about the man that goes to the doctor and says “When I raise my arm like this, it hurts." The doctor responds “Well, don’t raise your arm like that."


----------



## markr6

*219BT-V1*.....4450 Lumens | 20,000cd | 4885K | 90+ CRI
*219C*............6700 Lumens | 29,000cd | 5000K | 80+ CRI
(not too far behind the S3 3D version!)
*XP-G2 S3 3D*..7010 Lumens | 32,000cd | 4885K

*dayumn!*

As critical as I was with the M43, this almost makes me want to drop another $200. Crazy addiction. Shouldn't have given up heroin.


----------



## mhanlen

Anyone actually test the output of the s3-3D yet? I may need to recalibrate my measuring device because I did a quick test the other night and I was reading a bit higher than it should.


----------



## plata0190

What about the new 4000K 5A3 emitter? would someone gonna buy it?


----------



## mhanlen

I thought about it, but mtn electronics didn't carry that version.


----------



## markr6

mtn electonics just blew thru 7 M43's pretty quick. Obviously some were waiting to get one!


----------



## mhanlen

I got the email notification and bought one within an hour.


----------



## fnsooner

plata0190 said:


> What about the new 4000K 5A3 emitter? would someone gonna buy it?



I would have but they didn't offer it until a day after I ordered the S3-3D. No regrets though, the S3-3D has a very nice tint.


----------



## stateoftheart

fnsooner said:


> I would have but they didn't offer it until a day after I ordered the S3-3D. No regrets though, the S3-3D has a very nice tint.



Muppets


----------



## KenSrf

What is CRI of CP-G3 S3 3D?


----------



## mhanlen

Couldn't tell ya, but here it is next to a Nichia Noctigon triple from mtn electronics. The Nichia is just to the left of the meteor. It's a pretty neutral white. I don't think I've read disappointment in the overall neutralness of it.


----------



## davpet

fnsooner said:


> This is what my double spring idea is trying to remedy.
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with eeking out more lumens. I am happy with the maximum output of my stock Meteor.




Interesting. I can't replicate this with my Meteor, no matter how hard I try.


----------



## fnsooner

davpet said:


> Interesting. I can't replicate this with my Meteor, no matter how hard I try.



That is interesting. What batteries are you using? I bought my second one because I didn't like the tint on the XP-G2 dedome and was hoping the second one would be better about not shutting off.


----------



## stateoftheart

fnsooner said:


> That is interesting. What batteries are you using? I bought my second one because I didn't like the tint on the XP-G2 dedome and was hoping the second one would be better about not shutting off.



It happened with mine. Its only a temporary fix but you can take the back off and pull the springs up.


----------



## fnsooner

Yeah, I have pulled the springs out a couple of times. It doesn't take long to settle back in though. Oh well, it isn't noticeable during normal use.


----------



## curry__muncha

Hmm.. I wonder if they would cater to a 8x Nichia + 4x Cree setup (that way you could get a nice balance of CRI as well as a little boost in output).
Just by swapping out the 4 outer LEDs to say NW Cree S3 3D, max output can be boosted from 4450 to 5303 (853 Lumen gain)


----------



## stateoftheart

Rev 4


----------



## stateoftheart

The crossing at the pads was more so I could make larger contacts with the solder. Weaving the copper tape allows the solder to soak in the copper tape and make the pad instead of leak through. Quite happy with how sturdy everything is now. Filed the pads flat and cleaned the flux off with alcohol.


----------



## davpet

fnsooner said:


> That is interesting. What batteries are you using? I bought my second one because I didn't like the tint on the XP-G2 dedome and was hoping the second one would be better about not shutting off.



Still using the ThruNite branded NCR18650Bs. Got the post notice that my high drainers have arrived, I'll pick them up tomorrow, and test them out soon. I don't know if my light is the newer model or not. It arrived two weeks ago, Sandstone color.


----------



## stateoftheart

Rev 5 

This is the last time it's coming apart.

I soldered the middle of the interconnected wires direct to the board. The wires between each contact has a little slack so they are about half the spring height in the middle of the wire. From there I connected to the board with only a tiny bit of copper tape. Pretty tricky getting the solder to stick to the board. Used copper tape again and soldered between the springs along the copper board which I scratched up before.

Could be an extra 15g of lead now

Now from switching from high to turbo I can see marked difference than my rev 3 / 4. Probably because this means there are now 12 direct paths to the board in parallel


----------



## fnsooner

sota, with all that bypassing of the springs, You might as well use conventional springs and eliminate the turn off problem. We need a Rev 6. Sorry.:naughty:

Seriously though, interesting results.


----------



## stateoftheart

Its super tight now the pads are over 1mm high and the springs sturdy as hell. Something to bear in mind is leave slack, even if you do the copper tape can wick up too much solder and become hard.

Absolutely no rattle or stomp to off. I wonder how it works exactly on all the modes then. All the modes other than turbo are a measured current to the emitters? What is turbo exactly then, if my last sentence was correct?


----------



## stateoftheart

Just read turbo is 2A per led or 8A from the driver over 4 emitters in series. So on turbo we are taking 24A 3.7V plus driver losses and other small loads (led u processor ect). So about 6.5A per 18650 cell?

Why would what I've done increase the difference between high and turbo. Would it increase the output on all levels so I'm noticing a larger difference between high and turbo because they are proportionally higher.


----------



## stateoftheart

Thought I'd mention a lot of smartphones have a light meter on the top of the main screen to dim or brighten the screen dependant on ambient light level. My note 3 has about 10 useful sensors. To access them download a free program similar to Elixer 2 and go to sensors turn it on.
With my light meter I'm getting 33,000 lux at 1 metre.


----------



## fnsooner

davpet said:


> Still using the ThruNite branded NCR18650Bs. Got the post notice that my high drainers have arrived, I'll pick them up tomorrow, and test them out soon. I don't know if my light is the newer model or not. It arrived two weeks ago, Sandstone color.



I definitely would appreciate an update. Thanks.


----------



## RMM

The newest production batch of lights (I think from the time that the tan model became available) have a slightly shorter body to help reduce this problem.


----------



## stateoftheart

RMM said:


> The newest production batch of lights (I think from the time that the tan model became available) have a slightly shorter body to help reduce this problem.



Doubt it solved the problem ( I did wielding a 5mm iron ) of the light turning off if knocked, the springs are very weak for the weight of a 18650 cell. The new versions have another problem in that they cannot fit protected cells in them either


----------



## RMM

stateoftheart said:


> Doubt it solved the problem ( I did wielding a 5mm iron ) of the light turning off if knocked, the springs are very weak for the weight of a 18650 cell. The new versions have another problem in that they cannot fit protected cells in them either



The light was designed for high-drain unprotected cells. It never was meant to support protected batteries. I do think that the springs should have been slightly longer or thicker diameter, but I understand that there were some limitations working with the material and they didn't want to bypass every spring. 

Since it seems that you have solved the problem, maybe you should start selling modified tailcaps. :twothumbs


----------



## fnsooner

RMM said:


> The newest production batch of lights (I think from the time that the tan model became available) have a slightly shorter body to help reduce this problem.



The Meteor on the left in my video(above) is the tan one. I have confidence that I will get it sorted out eventually. Although, I may have to come to the forums from time to time for guidance.


----------



## stateoftheart

I knew there would be a problem when they were quoting tenths of mils the batteries should fall within in length but I still bought one. I went the whole hog with rev 5 I know. I also soldered the edge screws at the rear of the board across the copper to the edge of the battery tube so I was not relying on just face to face conndction between the battery tube and the 
Springboard.

You answered it yourself though maybe it should be thicker and longer version of the same material they are using. I am sure that would probably work out. They probably have thousands of these things already made up though lol so maybe the spring within a spring is a good idea for them at present.


----------



## markr6

I'm going to take some heat from some of you, but I like to keep it simple. This is one of those RTFM situations. Like RMM said, it was not meant to support protected batteries.

_Recommended cell is high drain, unprotected button top cell (around 67mm), using longer protected cells should lead into not being able to power up the flashlight._


----------



## stateoftheart

markr6 said:


> I'm going to take some heat from some of you, but I like to keep it simple. This is one of those RTFM situations. Like RMM said, it was not meant to support protected batteries.
> 
> _Recommended cell is high drain, unprotected button top cell (around 67mm), using longer protected cells should lead into not being able to power up the flashlight._



Version one of the light could only use protected batteries like keep power and orbtronic as the cell needed to be over 66.6mm or something like that. You can easily obtain protected high discharge cells so I'm unsure what your getting at. We were being advised not to use unprotected cells for V1 of the light because they were too small.

Now they are saying the complete opposite. So whereas before you could mod the battery / springs to accept unprotected cells, so you could use all battery types, however this time you can't in the V2 because its too small (battery tube).

Its the history you see and it all revolves around these dodgy copper springs. Have a read of the last two pages, its not that simple.

In fact go back 14 pages to where I was arguing that I wanted to use unprotected cells and what I was going to do so that I could use them in V1 of the light.

The only heat I'm feeling is the breezy morning sun on the beach in Kep


----------



## stateoftheart

Let's forget about the batteries then to keep it simple for you.If everything's ok now then in your mind for all the V2 owners who are using unprotected cells in their smaller light what about all the V1 owners out there with spring problems. In fact the same spring problems are occurring with people who have v2 of the light because they are not strong enough geezer. That's what the hot topic is here not what batteries we are using......


----------



## davpet

fnsooner said:


> I definitely would appreciate an update. Thanks.



I can happily confirm that the new unprotected LG batteries work well in the light. I tried the dropping on the table test, but I couldn't get it to shut off. These batteries are definitely much shorter than the protected ones, but they are definitely long enough for the M43 not to shut off.

And of course, it is brighter now: all measurements at 30 sec, (of course I let the light cool down after changing the batteries) I know it's not an exact Lumen measurement, but what it perfectly shows is that the high drainers do much better)

Lupine at max (for reference): 7780 lux (let's assume that it's 5000 Lumens)
M43 protected cells: 8400 lux (5400 Lumens)
M43 unprotected cells: 11000 lux (7069 Lumens)


----------



## markr6

davpet said:


> I can happily confirm that the new unprotected LG batteries work well in the light. I tried the dropping on the table test, but I couldn't get it to shut off. These batteries are definitely much shorter than the protected ones, but they are definitely long enough for the M43 not to shut off.



Mountain electronics suggested those among others. 67mm. Perfect. Following directions usually works well, but someone got upset with me saying that. They worked fine for me.


----------



## stateoftheart

I don't beleive that by causing force would not disconnect the light after using it for some time. Ie a week with batteries installed. If your springs are the same as mine im not having it at all.

So in conclusion to this as I'm not going to bark on about it anymore I feel at least for the V1 owners the manufacturer should reach out with a viable solution. Ie double spring each spring or use a different spring in my opinion.

Here's a picture of what I was describing before. Every little helps as they say.


----------



## stateoftheart

davpet said:


> I can happily confirm that the new unprotected LG batteries work well in the light. I tried the dropping on the table test, but I couldn't get it to shut off. These batteries are definitely much shorter than the protected ones, but they are definitely long enough for the M43 not to shut off.
> 
> And of course, it is brighter now: all measurements at 30 sec, (of course I let the light cool down after changing the batteries) I know it's not an exact Lumen measurement, but what it perfectly shows is that the high drainers do much better)
> 
> Lupine at max (for reference): 7780 lux (let's assume that it's 5000 Lumens)
> M43 protected cells: 8400 lux (5400 Lumens)
> M43 unprotected cells: 11000 lux (7069 Lumens)



What cells are you using exactly do you have the exact same type of unprotected and protected cell. I mean unless the protected cell you refer to is a rewrapped exact version of the unprotected cell you refer to (with no protection circuit added ) the outputs you have given don't mean much at all for comparison (protected vs unprotected per se) sake anyway.

Also just out of interest what model M43 is it as well....


----------



## mhanlen

Per the recommendations on the website, I'm using the HG2 cells. They work great. - thanks RMM and Hank!


----------



## fnsooner

mhanlen said:


> Per the recommendations on the website, I'm using the HG2 cells. They work great. - thanks RMM and Hank!



Same batteries that I use. You don’t have the problem displayed in this video?



I have bought a couple of flashlights that you have reviewed in your videos. You seem to miss negative characteristics that I have with my samples, e.g., the Meteor and the Acebeam T20 that has a delay when the switch is activated in momentary. I don’t know if your samples don’t have these problems or if you are missing these negative characteristics or just ignoring them for whatever reason.

When you put yourself out there as a reviewer, trust is essential. Your videos are entertaining, but I have quit watching them due to lack of any critical content that might be useful in making a purchase decision. You seem to be more interested in pleasing the dealers and manufacturers than informing the public about the product you are reviewing. I would love for you to prove me wrong in the future.


----------



## mhanlen

fnsooner said:


> Same batteries that I use. You don’t have the problem displayed in this video?
> 
> 
> 
> I have bought a couple of flashlights that you have reviewed in your videos. You seem to miss negative characteristics that I have with my samples, e.g., the Meteor and the Acebeam T20 that has a delay when the switch is activated in momentary. I don’t know if your samples don’t have these problems or if you are missing these negative characteristics or just ignoring them for whatever reason.
> 
> When you put yourself out there as a reviewer, trust is essential. Your videos are entertaining, but I have quit watching them due to lack of any critical content that might be useful in making a purchase decision. You seem to be more interested in pleasing the dealers and manufacturers than informing the public about the product you are reviewing. I would love for you to prove me wrong in the future.




Thanks for your early support, but I don't necessarily agree with your issues. I for one take pride in them, and I'll just go on record as saying that this is the very first complaint I've received as not reviewing things accurately. 

Whatever it is your talking about I don't know. But I'm sure if you're watching closely you would have seen the issue your talking about if you are truly paying attention. 

I literally have a closeup demonstrating the UI of every single flashlight reviewed. So if it was there and you're as picky as you claim you should have seen it. Almost all lights with electronics switches have slight delays. Including the beloved Zebralight. I don't see this as a problem... And if you're going to question my integrity as a reviewer in such a passive aggressive way... I'd prefer you not watch my videos anyway. 

Not only did I catch flack from Hank over the way I slightly complained about the UI for this video, now you're complaining that somehow I'm glossing over stuff as a shill. Since we're talking about overlooking a stuff... Maybe you don't understand the concept of a pass around. Why would I drop a $200 light that 5 other people have to use? Also it seems that wouldn't have been an issue early on because the springs compress over time. 

You must have missed the part in he T20 video where I broke the light testing the drop rating? 

Or the part in my latest video where I knowingly show the PWM? I make it a point to talk about it. 

There's also the possibility I'm just not as picky as some people. For example the ridiculous running division about using protected cells in this light? 

I'll have you know I jut purchased this light at full price. So no I don't agree with you in the slightest. Or whatever the heck you're even talking about. 

I pride myself on my video reviews. They are infinitely more detailed than every single video review out there. I dunk lights in water. Throw them... Do runtime video tests, instead of just making a graph. If you're truly paying attention... Which I don't believe you are... You'll notice that my output figures and runtimes are significantly different than manufacturers claims. But since you're basically just selectively picking out some small issues you have with my reviews... You're basically doing what you're accusing me of. Seriously watch other people's stuff. You obviously don't appreciate the time, effort, and objectivity I put in my stuff. I don't mind constructive criticism... I have addressed suggestions many times by subscribers... And fixed areas people have said need improvement. If there's something I'm not addressing in my videos I can fix it. But passive aggressive junk like this, calling my integrity as a reviewer into question- isn't the right way. 

Why the heck would anyone drop an eswitch light with only springs on one end of the battery tube and expect it to operate uninterrupted? I understand it's a short fall... But even if my light did this... I wouldn't return it. And no I haven't tried it yet. Sounds like you should return it and buy something else.

But yeah I'd love it if you stopped watching my videos. I just did a knife review where I basically called it crap. My review of he Sunwayman g25c wasn't pretty, and neither was my Imalent D21. That and Hank basically doesn't like my meteor review, which he told me himself. And then there's my spark sg5 headlamp review where I tested the reverse polarity and killed the light. Spark doesn't even return my emails. And Imalent criticized the location of one of my reviews as not being what they would have liked for a review. They wanted me to do one in a forest. So I didn't... And they don't return my emails either. So you don't know as much as you think you do... sorry.

edit: thought that was your t20 review but it wasn't... Surfing on tapatalk isn't the best sometimes. I still am not sure what you're talking about... But if you didn't see it in my UI demonstration then it isn't there. And if it is... I don't notice it. Things that bother you about certain lights won't bother me... And I might not notice even them. It is not possible as a reviewer to comment on things I don't notice. And to be honest sometimes there are things I don't test because I don't think about them. You have every right to ask me a specific question about a light, and I'll give you an honest answer. You didn't though... You'd basically rather call into question the honesty of my reviews... And in more or less words call me a shill. 

If you have any further need to discuss this beef with me feel free to hit me up via PM. Also I notice you'd didn't call into question the integrity of that reviewer and basically said you love the light.


----------



## stateoftheart

mhanlen said:


> Per the recommendations on the website, I'm using the HG2 cells. They work great. - thanks RMM and Hank!




OK thanks and what protected cells where you using in your comparison......you are being very shy about the details and just throwing random numbers around.

Thats a long explanation as well maybe a little too long . I would hazard a guess that you wouldn't get as many free lights if you reviewed the lights on a non bias basis though would you. 'Thankyou Hank'...is a little corny as well don't you think.


----------



## mhanlen

stateoftheart said:


> OK thanks and what protected cells where you using in your comparison......you are being very shy about the details and just throwing random numbers around.
> 
> Thats a long explanation as well maybe a little too long . I would hazard a guess that you wouldn't get as many free lights if you reviewed the lights on a non bias basis though would you. 'Thankyou Hank'...is a little corny as well don't you think.



What exactly am I biased about? What info are you talking about? I am coy about absolutely nothing. Did you miss the whole section where I said that Hank thinks it's too biased against the light? As far as I know, this is the first time you've asked me a question. I have no idea what you're referring? My video? My current light? Have you been following along?

In my video I tested the lights with two batteries. I have the model #s listed as clear as day in the video. What else do you want? 

That light is different than the current one. I never owned that light or tested lumens on it because I wasn't equipped for it at the time. Do you understand what a "pass around" review is.? Hint: it doesn't mean FREE LIGHT. I own the current model that doesn't take protected cells. I paid for it... $200 just like you buddy. You forgot to mention that. 

I run hg2 cells in my current model., Since I don't own 4 unprotected high drain cells. I followed directions and bought the correct batteries. Bought a new light bought the right batteries. So why can't you handle this. Again if you're going to be a jerk, let's take it to PM.


----------



## stateoftheart

mhanlen said:


> What exactly am I biased about? What info are you talking about? I am coy about absolutely nothing. Did you miss the whole section where I said that Hank thinks it's too biased against the light? As far as I know, this is the first time you've asked me a question. I have no idea what you're referring? My video? My current light? Have you been following along?
> 
> In my video I tested the lights with two batteries. I have the model #s listed as clear as day in the video. What else do you want?
> 
> That light is different than the current one. I never owned that light or tested lumens on it because I wasn't equipped for it at the time. Do you understand what a "pass around" review is.? Hint: it doesn't mean FREE LIGHT. I own the current model that doesn't take protected cells. I paid for it... $200 just like you buddy. You forgot to mention that.
> 
> I run hg2 cells in my current model., Since I don't own 4 unprotected high drain cells. I followed directions and bought the correct batteries. Bought a new light bought the right batteries. So why can't you handle this. Again if you're going to be a jerk, let's take it to PM.




You didnt mention you had a video in your first post, it was somewhat vague. Link....? 

No need to throw the toys out of the cot and are you joking saying let's take this to PM. Let's keep it in the open its more real but its not a playground mind you.

Have you ever heard the saying he doth protest too much....


----------



## mhanlen

stateoftheart said:


> You didnt mention you had a video in your first post, it was somewhat vague. Link....?
> 
> No need to throw the toys out of the cot and are you joking saying let's take this to PM. Let's keep it in the open its more real but its not a playground mind you.
> 
> Have you ever heard the saying he doth protest too much....



Alright man. You and you're buddy are calling into question the ethics of my reviews with insults. You talk about my video then say you haven't seen it. I know when I'm being trolled. You know what they say when you see two people arguing from a distance.... So you can sit here figure out run the Ferrari off 87 and keep it from pinging. Have fun!


----------



## more_vampires

Geez, guys! Lighten up! Some of us want to know all about the M43. What's up with the bickering? Chill it out, please.


----------



## stateoftheart

If you go back a few posts you will find I asked you some specific questions which after all your efforts you haven't yet answered them. Instead you are talking about how ethical you are and fast cars, that's what's bewildering. This is CPF not Fast and Furious lol.


----------



## dssguy1

more_vampires said:


> Geez, guys! Lighten up! Some of us want to know all about the M43. What's up with the bickering? Chill it out, please.



+1


----------



## markr6

MAN, LIFE'S HARD!


----------



## mhanlen

I know! Love the Meteor though.


----------



## more_vampires

mhanlen said:


> I know! Love the Meteor though.


I'm buying another. I like the first one that much.


----------



## mhanlen

I spent more on this light than any other light by over $100. I did the review, sent it back and decided to buy one anyway. And wasn't compensated in any way. I even paid to ship it back.


----------



## fnsooner

more_vampires said:


> I'm buying another. I like the first one that much.



Me too. I already did.


----------



## fnsooner

@ mhanlen. Fair enough. I was just pointing out three items that have helped me to form my opinion of your intent, e.g., M43, Acebeam T20 and your emphatic(see exclamation point in your post) "look at me" shout out to the manufacturer and the US dealer of this flashlight. The last one was the one that set me off.

Here's a couple of more. 

You were answering questions about this light over at BLF and a poster point blank asked you if your M43 displayed the shut off characteristic. While happily asnswering all the other questions, you seem to ignore this one. The silence was deafening and forced my to fill in the blank myself. yanuk the OP of the thread. The reason I noticed this is because I was interested in the answer. It never came.

Over at reddit you seem to be disturbed that Hank(the manufacturer of the light) didn't like your video. My interpretation based on the other examples.

All of these examples by themselves seem innocent enough. Together, there seems to be a pattern. Sorry if that is not your intent. These aren't things I went digging up to discredit you. These are things I notice and made mental notes about while researching and purchasing flashlights. Like I said above, your little shout out to the manufacturer and dealer just rubbed me raw.

As a side note, I have no problem whatsoever with RMM or Int-Outdoors. It is their job to sell stuff. It is the flashlight communities job to hold their feet to the fire.

Also, my frustration about the problem discussed is pretty low. I have done this for a while and there is always something and compromises. My frustration at the whitewashing of the problem by some, is pretty high. There is just too many coincidences for my liking.


----------



## mhanlen

I never saw that question... This is the first time I've ever been made aware I've not answered the question. I'll take a Video when I get home so you and your friend will have something to talk over. I have spent nearly $400 at mountain electronics on various things so no they've never paid me a single cent. Richard is helpful and he provides an excellent product that no one else does... .and he asked me to put his link on the video . But hey now I've formed an opinion about you. So now we all have opinions! I reviewed the light for mountain electronics in conjunction with international outdoor there's nothing else to the story other than that. They wanted me to mention Them in the video and put their links in the description. No money has ever been paid to me... the only money that is been paid was when I have bought expensive items from them. 

Feel free to email either one of them and ask. Or just continue to slander me... whatever you feel like you need to do.

Also you never answered my question... did you see the T-20 behave the way yours did my video or did you not. It either doesn't yours does or doesn't.


----------



## staticaz

cool_torch_bro said:


> Sorry Images didn't attach for some reason


Great shots....thanks.....getting ready to order mine.....looks like they only have it in dark grey but....no big deal...


----------



## staticaz

.....


----------



## altermann

more_vampires said:


> LOL! Are we moving from the "soda can" format towards the "tuna can" format?
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I want one. It looks lumeniscious.



ha
ha


----------



## mhanlen

Also fsooner that question was not directed at me and I wasn't quoted in it so I didn't answer it. I often skim threads and if I don't see a quote directed at me, a lot of times I don't read the contents of the posts. Which is what happened. I literally had to go back and read the entire thread to find a comment that wasn't directed at me, that you said was.

And I wouldn't have anything to add to that anyway, because I got the light two days before so my springs would not have had time to get smooshed. 

So pinning The lack of response on me solely is pretty misleading. Sorry I mean trolling.


----------



## staticaz

So if I order mine today, which I am about to do, I will get what it supposed to be the V2 upgrade? Thanks ,,,


----------



## mhanlen

yes..


----------



## more_vampires

staticaz said:


> So if I order mine today, which I am about to do, I will get what it supposed to be the V2 upgrade? Thanks ,,,


The other source is Vinh if you wanted different options (such as XHP70x4.) AFAIK, his current stock is the V2 but he may still have some V1 body tubes left.

Also, not all of Vinh's options are posted and he's not currently taking VNX2 M43 orders yet. Maybe next week, he's working fast as he can.

He currently offers non-vnx2 builds of M43.


----------



## davpet

stateoftheart said:


> What cells are you using exactly do you have the exact same type of unprotected and protected cell. I mean unless the protected cell you refer to is a rewrapped exact version of the unprotected cell you refer to (with no protection circuit added ) the outputs you have given don't mean much at all for comparison (protected vs unprotected per se) sake anyway.
> 
> Also just out of interest what model M43 is it as well....



Protected: NCR18650B ThruNite branded, 3400mAh. Unprotected: LG INR18650-HG2. I never said it's an absolute comparison between protected and unprotected cells, only what I've been using and what I use now. My M43 is the (probably v2) Sandstone colored model with the CW S4 2B led option.


----------



## fnsooner

mhanlen, you have convinced me that your actions are pure. Just be careful about cozying up too close to the manufacturers. We spend our hard earned money on this stuff and are always sensitive to shills, plants and bias. They are every where. A trusted reviewer must guard against any perceived favoritism.

Buddy? I have no buddies. Sorry, I am not good at the name calling game.

One more thing. Does your Meteor shut off when you smack it on the tail using the HG2 cells?


----------



## mhanlen

fnsooner said:


> mhanlen, you have convinced me that your actions are pure. Just be careful about cozying up too close to the manufacturers. We spend our hard earned money on this stuff and are always sensitive to shills, plants and bias. They are every where. A trusted reviewer must guard against any perceived favoritism.
> 
> Buddy? I have no buddies. Sorry, I am not good at the name calling game.
> 
> One more thing. Does your Meteor shut off when you smack it on the tail using the HG2 cells?






All your questions will be answered in just a few minutes regarding the shock resistance of this light. Let me reiterate one last time. I have purchased this light, after reviewing a sample sent to me in may that I had for only 1 week. It was a review sample that had to be passed around, I gave my honest impressions of the light... I loved it but had a few caveats. I had to take care of that light, and I paid to ship it back. Fast forward to a few weeks ago, I purchased this light like I have tons of stuff from Richard. I didn't see that question because it was not directed at me... but I have made a video- which I am not sure what it accomplishes. It's basically made for you and that other guy in the thread who thinks his light has a defect. I hope you guys are happy with the small dings now on my light. 

Anyway... when doing a review... I abide by a few rules. I try to be objective and not overly negative. I address things that are relevant to what I look for in a product, and some things others look for too. I am not overly obsessive compulsive about every detail, like some people are. I talk objectively about light output readings, runtimes, and user interfaces. I test my lights, and let me tell you- I have had more complaints from manufacturers than subscribers. In fact, you and that other dude above are the first two- congrats! Other than people hating my sense of humor or my voice- I can't do nothing about that. I am not a shill, and no one pays me other than YouTube. I do get free samples, that I often drop, abuse, and put through the paces. Have you seen my knife reviews? Probably not. 

If you look around you will find most or all of the best reviewers out there, have the lights provided by the manufacturers or retailers. I'm not different. Sometimes though, I actually pay for the stuff I review. Like the Meteor, or the BLF a6. If other people have problems with them, or have a defective light- that's not my problem. I review the stuff that's sent to me- not what's sent to other people. Do not blame me for this. In fact, I will say, I am probably one of the lower rung reviewers, and probably taken seriously the least. Many of the reviews I post here get few or no responses. Whatever. I work hard for subscribers and fans- and those are the people I cater to. Which is why you'll see the video I made and uploaded in a few minutes. I would ask you to think before you accuse anyone of being a shill. You basically disregarded a sizeable chunk of my T20 review because you didn't like the switch. I literally broke the light for the review and had to pay for replacement parts. So no- now it isn't a free light.

Anyway. it should be ready to post here in a little bit. I have spent too much time today arguing with two guys who basically questioned my integrity, and I don't get anything for it. Except a halfhearted concession- when I wasn't even the person to whom the original question was asked.


----------



## mhanlen

Here you go. The audio is bad, and the lighting isn't good. I cut some of my rambling out to save time, and I'm not reading from a script. Also the audio is loud when I drop the lights, so make sure youre volume isn't blasting. So bearing in mind that- here you go.


----------



## seasam

mhanlen said:


> Here you go. The audio is bad, and the lighting isn't good. I cut some of my rambling out to save time, and I'm not reading from a script. Also the audio is loud when I drop the lights, so make sure youre volume isn't blasting. So bearing in mind that- here you go.




you shouldn't have fed the trolls man :shakehead


----------



## staticaz

Great......thanks for the video.......


----------



## mhanlen

You're right! The Internet is their buffet.


----------



## staticaz

Uh.....sorry....haven't been on here in about a year.....who or what is Vinh? Thanks


----------



## stateoftheart

mhanlen said:


> I spent more on this light than any other light by over $100. I did the review, sent it back and decided to buy one anyway. And wasn't compensated in any way. I even paid to ship it back.



I love the light too............especially at Sunset. Only joking sorry about the banter. I thought you might have been a bit hard on fsooner that's all.

Before I watch the video which I will I would like to ask if you had taken detailed footage of the springs in your light just before the test to see if they are original and the same as ours (not mine haha) just so there's no trickery of any kind.

If you did this I applaud you if you didn't I boo you in retrospect . Ok I will look now but if there's no detailed shots of the springs the video is worth about as much as a fake cent.

Fsooner is my buddy we have known each other for about a week


----------



## dssguy1

Poor light. [emoji29]


----------



## mhanlen

I'm actually done with this whole thing thanks. Bug someone else.


----------



## stateoftheart

Ok watched the vid you have really good wrist action bro, you've done this a few times before. Be careful you don't hurt yourself over there...

The light went off. How do we know you didn't bend the springs back 5 minutes before the video. Why did you cut the video just before you dropped in from height,? Also you didn't need to be that abusive a very small drop on the tail would turn it off. This progressively gets worse over time until you have to remove the spring board and bend them back.

You didn't show us your springs or batteries tut tut. You should know that we on CPF are technically minded so we don't like vagueness or lack of details.

Everyone is calling us real CPF members trolls. I have been a solid member for over 5 years and affiliated to no one. Take a look at my history of posts. I can assure you none of them say 'thankyou Hank and RMM'........

OK now that's out of the way let's talk about trolls they normally are bias in someway like connected with a manufacturer. They like to swerve problems using cloak and dagger techniques. In a forum setting they would be quite on point with the topic but brand new to the forum only talking about a particular product or set of products.

I mean if I had a product and was that way inclined I'd construct a few member accounts on forums to massively big up my product, and tone down any issues real people were having. I mean that's business isn't it...?

Remember when I mentioned he who protestieth too much...,.

I'm glad you've had enough, trolls don't have any stamina they have multiple accounts and only one thought process.


----------



## mhanlen

Well this proves it. Thanks!


----------



## more_vampires

staticaz said:


> Uh.....sorry....haven't been on here in about a year.....who or what is Vinh? Thanks



A CPF modder, Vinhnguyen54, he has a subforum here and is offering modded M43 lights.


----------



## staticaz

OK...thank you.


----------



## stateoftheart

davpet said:


> Protected: NCR18650B ThruNite branded, 3400mAh. Unprotected: LG INR18650-HG2. I never said it's an absolute comparison between protected and unprotected cells, only what I've been using and what I use now. My M43 is the (probably v2) Sandstone colored model with the CW S4 2B led option.




How did you measure the light output. Any photos

It seemed in the body of your text you were saying the same cell unprotected vs protected version has massive differences when they do not. If you were not quoting the spec of the batteries then why would we not assume this, it was a comparison was it not.

What I'm saying is I could say I was using my 5 year ultrafire 2600s and brand new LG HE3s and give the outputs phenomenally different obviously. But you didn't refer to types of cells you only said protected and unprotected.

That's why to me who understands this it makes no sense whatsoever, it only makes me suspicious of you. 

To a lamen it would sound that using unprotected batteries is awesome and so v2 of the light is awesome too. Woo Woo.

When its not all that good. That's why people build protection circuits so that cells are protected from overdischarge / overcharging. Which can and does reduce their lifetime and can cause them to explode quite dramatically in a pipe bomb like fashion....This is what a lamen needs to hear.

That's why it says on many respectable battery sales websites (such as www.eu.nkon.nl) using unprotected batteries is and can be dangerous and should only be used by experienced users. That does not fit in with a commercial product sale does it now .....tut tut again.

You might come back and say the the Meteor has its own protection circuit and cut off voltage. But what if that circuit failed dramatically somehow which is very possible user or hardware fault. There is no secondary means of protection for the user. Let's all be a little more safety conscious at least for the lamens amongst us instead of promoting potentially risky behaviour.


----------



## stateoftheart

Ridiculous mhamlen on your quote saying that we should expect the problem of the dissconnection on shock because we have an e-switch light OMG. The spring material is made of thin copper its not a spring, albeit it looks like one but it stops there.

I have had countless lights and never had so much of an issue as this. I decided to fix my own and now it works exactly has it should have done from stock, see my photos here. ((I am lucky I have the longer V1 of the light and can use all types of cells, even safer protected ones....))

Again thin copper curls of wire do not work effectively as a spring, repeat after me. Stop glossing over the truth please.

As one enlightened CPFer said make the copper wire thicker and longer and it might work don't reduce the size of the lights battery holder as you did in V2 of the light so we are limited in what types of batteries we can use.

I know you probably have hundreds and hundreds of these pathetic coils of copper but they don't work in trying to hold up a weightly 18650 cell (even in V2 Tan Color of the light as fsooners posted video) as they do not spring back into shape and have no sturdiness. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news


----------



## Greta

stateoftheart said:


> Ok watched the vid you have really good wrist action bro, you've done this a few times before. Be careful you don't hurt yourself over there...
> 
> The light went off. How do we know you didn't bend the springs back 5 minutes before the video. Why did you cut the video just before you dropped in from height,? Also you didn't need to be that abusive a very small drop on the tail would turn it off. This progressively gets worse over time until you have to remove the spring board and bend them back.
> 
> You didn't show us your springs or batteries tut tut. You should know that we on CPF are technically minded so we don't like vagueness or lack of details.
> 
> Everyone is calling us real CPF members trolls. I have been a solid member for over 5 years and affiliated to no one. Take a look at my history of posts. I can assure you none of them say 'thankyou Hank and RMM'........
> 
> OK now that's out of the way let's talk about trolls they normally are bias in someway like connected with a manufacturer. They like to swerve problems using cloak and dagger techniques. In a forum setting they would be quite on point with the topic but brand new to the forum only talking about a particular product or set of products.
> 
> I mean if I had a product and was that way inclined I'd construct a few member accounts on forums to massively big up my product, and tone down any issues real people were having. I mean that's business isn't it...?
> 
> Remember when I mentioned he who protestieth too much...,.
> 
> I'm glad you've had enough, trolls don't have any stamina they have multiple accounts and only one thought process.





stateoftheart said:


> How did you measure the light output. Any photos
> 
> It seemed in the body of your text you were saying the same cell unprotected vs protected version has massive differences when they do not. If you were not quoting the spec of the batteries then why would we not assume this, it was a comparison was it not.
> 
> What I'm saying is I could say I was using my 5 year ultrafire 2600s and brand new LG HE3s and give the outputs phenomenally different obviously. But you didn't refer to types of cells you only said protected and unprotected.
> 
> That's why to me who understands this it makes no sense whatsoever, it only makes me suspicious of you.
> 
> To a lamen it would sound that using unprotected batteries is awesome and so v2 of the light is awesome too. Woo Woo.
> 
> When its not all that good. That's why people build protection circuits so that cells are protected from overdischarge / overcharging. Which can and does reduce their lifetime and can cause them to explode quite dramatically in a pipe bomb like fashion....This is what a lamen needs to hear.
> 
> That's why it says on many respectable battery sales websites (such as www.eu.nkon.nl) using unprotected batteries is and can be dangerous and should only be used by experienced users. That does not fit in with a commercial product sale does it now .....tut tut again.
> 
> You might come back and say the the Meteor has its own protection circuit and cut off voltage. But what if that circuit failed dramatically somehow which is very possible user or hardware fault. There is no secondary means of protection for the user. Let's all be a little more safety conscious at least for the lamens amongst us instead of promoting potentially risky behaviour.





stateoftheart said:


> Ridiculous mhamlen on your quote saying that we should expect the problem of the dissconnection on shock because we have an e-switch light OMG. The spring material is made of thin copper its not a spring, albeit it looks like one but it stops there.
> 
> I have had countless lights and never had so much of an issue as this. I decided to fix my own and now it works exactly has it should have done from stock, see my photos here. ((I am lucky I have the longer V1 of the light and can use all types of cells, even safer protected ones....))
> 
> Again thin copper curls of wire do not work effectively as a spring, repeat after me. Stop glossing over the truth please.
> 
> As one enlightened CPFer said make the copper wire thicker and longer and it might work don't reduce the size of the lights battery holder as you did in V2 of the light so we are limited in what types of batteries we can use.
> 
> I know you probably have hundreds and hundreds of these pathetic coils of copper but they don't work in trying to hold up a weightly 18650 cell (even in V2 Tan Color of the light as fsooners posted video) as they do not spring back into shape and have no sturdiness. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news




 So let me get this straight - just because you've been a member for 5 years, you're allowed to be rude and act like a total *** to members who may not have been around as long as you? Yeah - NO! This is your only warning - your behavior is not acceptable. Back out of this thread now as you are obviously not adding anything of value to it anymore.


----------



## stateoftheart

Ok Greta I agree that I cannot add anything else, I said this a few posts before. I am a real user addressing the problems we are facing in which I have helped find a viable fix for. I thought this would be taken in positive manner which it wasnt. That's why we are where we are at. I hope you can appreciate this at some level......


----------



## Nuclear Cowboy

This reminds me of that old joke. A guy goes to the doctor and says it hurts when I do this......The doctor replies with a simple answer, "Then stop doing it. " I shut mine off by bumping the tailcap. I tried it and yes it would shut the light off. I stopped bumping the tailcap and it worked finefrom then on. Not really a problem for most and certainly not worth the aggressive display shown on this thread. There is a civil way to disagree with someone and maybe a few should practice that approach in the future.

As to mhanlen's video, I thought it was very informative and entertaining. Concidering he only had the light a short time before the video was made I only expected his initial impressions of it and I think he did a wonderful job of that.

That said, reviews are helpful but all should be taken with a grain of salt. Just because he likes a product it doesn't mean I will. When Consumer Reports likes a product I become immediately skeptical. They are helpful but not the deciding factor in a purchase.


----------



## fnsooner

Funny joke. I will have to remember that one. Doctor sounds like a quack.


----------



## Glenn7

I always leave the backlight in the switch on mine on so as to find my light in the dark and to know the battery status anyway, so if I was to drop my light and it turned off I would be able to find it again. 
Smashing the lens after dropping it should be more of a concern than light going off IMO, and if you're going to be using the light in a life or death situation or in a cave/cliff/running etc or you're a bumble fingers there is always the lanyard.


----------



## fnsooner

I am going to quote myself in case any one missed it.



fnsooner said:


> Also, my frustration about the problem discussed is pretty low. I have done this for a while and there is always something and compromises. My frustration at the whitewashing of the problem by some, is pretty high.



The problem itself isn't a great big deal, even though I would like to correct it. The peculiar thing to me is the reaction to the mere mention of it. I don't see the big deal about mentioning it and discussing possible remedies.


----------



## mhanlen

Deleted. My comment was nonproductive.


----------



## mhanlen

Nuclear Cowboy said:


> This reminds me of that old joke. A guy goes to the doctor and says it hurts when I do this......The doctor replies with a simple answer, "Then stop doing it. " I shut mine off by bumping the tailcap. I tried it and yes it would shut the light off. I stopped bumping the tailcap and it worked finefrom then on. Not really a problem for most and certainly not worth the aggressive display shown on this thread. There is a civil way to disagree with someone and maybe a few should practice that approach in the future.
> 
> As to mhanlen's video, I thought it was very informative and entertaining. Concidering he only had the light a short time before the video was made I only expected his initial impressions of it and I think he did a wonderful job of that.
> 
> That said, reviews are helpful but all should be taken with a grain of salt. Just because he likes a product it doesn't mean I will. When Consumer Reports likes a product I become immediately skeptical. They are helpful but not the deciding factor in a purchase.



Thanks man! I'm sorry to hear you didn't like it... But it's just one of those things. I never want anyone to base a large purchase on my review alone, no matter what the product. I do this as a hobby and I work only for myself. I am absolutely not a perfectionist or overly not picky. If someone is one of those people I don't know if my channel is for them. 

Anyway thanks!


----------



## fnsooner

I also find it odd that in a place that dissects and analyses and scrutinizes every little aspect of a flashlight, that a flashlight that can turns off on its own while using it, is no big deal and not a significant topic for discussion.


I have told myself a dozen times that I was going to toil away on my own to try and fix this problem and not drone on about it, but then someone makes a comment where I feel I am being trivialized and I feel compelled to respond. 

mhanlen, I will respond to all your questions. I worked a twelve hour day yesterday and am heading out the door for another. Cheers.


----------



## mhanlen

fnsooner said:


> I also find it odd that in a place that dissects and analyses and scrutinizes every little aspect of a flashlight, that a flashlight that can turns off on its own while using it, is no big deal and not a significant topic for discussion.
> 
> 
> I have told myself a dozen times that I was going to toil away on my own to try and fix this problem and not drone on about it, but then someone makes a comment where I feel I am being trivialized and I feel compelled to respond.
> 
> mhanlen, I will respond to all your questions. I worked a twelve hour day yesterday and am heading out the door for another. Cheers.





Me too. Don't bother I deleted it. I have said as much a million times. We don't need to address our problems any further.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

Take some advice from a wise old CPFer, stop bitching so much!!!!

It puts members off you and you might get banned for good.

Greta is NUMERO UNO.


*CHEERS*


----------



## Pöbel

Finally. The thread become so agressive and non productive that I decided to stop reading it. I'm happy to hear that everything is back to civil now.

The meteor is a great light, but you have to keep in mind the restrictions, which are a direct result of the extreme measures taken to get that size and power into that envelope. So yeah, it's not as rugged as others, its not a gun light and it should not be dropped. While the last is true for all lights in general, many will survive dropping much easier than the meteor.

If the light is uses as intended with the batteries recommended we can have a lot of fun.


----------



## staticaz

Just curious....I replied to one of his posts where he is showing lux meter differences between stock and modified M43's. In that video, his 
lux meter registered between 1264 stock, and roughly 1360 lux modified. I have that same lux meter and with my Skyray King - 9 cree xmls , I am registering 1500+ lux by bouncing the light back to the meter sensor from 2 feet away off of white wall. I really want the M 43 and I know it is of far superior quality than the Skyray but, it's hard to justify the expense if the M43 will not give me higher output then my Skyray's. Can you or anyone else possibly let me know if I will see visibly higher output from the M43 than I see from my Skyray's? I have a jpg of these readings with the Skyray but do not have a url where I could post it to then attach. Thanks ahead of time for any replies.


----------



## Pöbel

please don't crosspost. Our question has been answered in the other thread. 

You just can't compare Lux readings that way.


----------



## fnsooner

I'll do better. I do feel like the messenger has been demonized though.:sigh:


----------



## staticaz

UH....didn't mean to offend anyone, just trying to find out if the M43 will output more visible light than my Skyray. I have not been able to 
find any posts comparing these two. Have you had any experience with these two lights and if so, will the M4r3 blow away the Skyray is visible output?


----------



## mhanlen

Do you have any idea how many lumensish it outputs? I have a 3 xml2 skyray and it kills it.


----------



## more_vampires

staticaz said:


> UH....didn't mean to offend anyone, just trying to find out if the M43 will output more visible light than my Skyray. I have not been able to
> find any posts comparing these two. Have you had any experience with these two lights and if so, will the M4r3 blow away the Skyray is visible output?


Unfortunately, there's rather a lot of M43 variants at this time (counting the modded ones.) It's hard to give a definitive answer. 



mhanlen said:


> Do you have any idea how many lumensish it outputs? I have a 3 xml2 skyray and it kills it.


XM-L2 x 12 should beat the pants off 3x XM-L2.


----------



## mhanlen

Yeah I know... But by how much? Some of those multi emitter lights have terrible drivers. This question cant be answered in any sort of way, if you haven't done measurements or one hasn't been reviewed. There are way too many sky Ray variants out there. My 3xml2 skyray does about mid 2000 ish lumens.


----------



## more_vampires

> *V54 official numbers:
> Noctigon M43vn XPL HI S3 : 7400/7280
> Noctigon M43vn XPG2 S3 3D: 6340/6150
> Noctigon M43vn XPL HI S3 : 7400/7280
> Noctigon M43vn Mule XHP70 NW N2 E3: 5600/5470*


Note that this is stock driver. The current boosted driver isn't quite ready yet, we can expect bigger lumens from it as we're going from 8 amps to 12 amps.

Hey, grab it if you want it. I already have one, but will get another with the boosted driver just to do side-by-sides.

Edit: If you're after the biggest lumens there can be, you're not getting it out of a light this size and need to step up the size category to get 10k+ 15k+ lumens.

AFAIK, M43 is currently one of the biggest punches packed in a small container, and it's only going to get better.


----------



## staticaz

No.....I don't have any way to measure the lumens other than I know the sellers claim of 12,000 is greatly exaggerated. I have the 4 led, 6 led and 9 led Skyrays... they all put out a decent amount of light.....the 6 led actually seems to appear brighter close than the 9 but it is focused to more of a flood where the 9 is a tighter beam and has a better throw. As I said before, I know the M43 is far better quality wise but, as popular as the Sky's seem to be, I would have thought that someone would have done a comparison between these two. Oh well...will keep looking....I do appreciate the help here though....thanks for taking the time to respond.


----------



## KenSrf

mhanlen said:


> Couldn't tell ya, but here it is next to a Nichia Noctigon triple from mtn electronics. The Nichia is just to the left of the meteor. It's a pretty neutral white. I don't think I've read disappointment in the overall neutralness of it.


Appreciate the photo!


----------



## fnsooner

OK, I received an assortment of springs from Mountain Electronics and tried a couple of different sizes. Spring B are the ones to get. It doesn’t completely eliminate the problem of the light shutting off on its own when tapped on the tail, but I have to go to about an inch drop before I can duplicate the problem. If the M43 did this good originally, I would have probably never noticed this characteristic. 

I squeezed the dual springs and could not tell that there was any binding or that one interfered with the other. I think I will leave them alone without solder for now.

So I have got the spring situation sorted to my satisfaction and have both my Meteors fitted with acrylic lenses. I think it is time to put them to work. 

I have one more mod I am going to do when the parts come in. Can’t wait.

Here are some pics.










Also, I purchased the white on August 19th and the tan one on September 24th and my eyes can’t see any discernable difference in the length of my battery tubes. I wonder if I have V1 or V2. Oh well, not important in my case


----------



## Pöbel

If this has the same resistance than the stock springs, then this would be a way better solution than the solder massacre presented some pages before. If resistance has gone up this will impact efficiency (but not necessarily output with full batteries).


----------



## fnsooner

Oops, sorry I didn't clarify. Those are the original springs with some traditional springs inserted inside for some support. This was done solely to address the issue of the light shutting off when the tail is tapped. I haven't determined if I have helped the resistance issue. It couldn't hurt.

It may sound strange coming from someone on this site, but I am happy with the maximum output of the stock Meteor. I am trying to make a utility user out of this thing and probably won't use max much.


----------



## davpet

I've found a little "problem" with the M43: if the batteries are not fresh off the charger, it doesn't take too much time before the light will not allow turbo, or even the 4A high in UI2. I've charged the batteries on Monday, flashed turbo a few times, and used low and medium modes for not more than 20 minutes, and it is already giving me the warning signal (two flashes) when I try to activate the higher high or turbo. I checked it with my light meter, the output is now the same on high and turbo, only a little brighter than high 1 (2A). Probably this has more to do with the batteries not being able to output that much current if the voltage is not at max. Still, the switch is not even green yet. Maybe this has been discussed before, but I wonder if a 2S2P battery configuration would have (at least partly) solved this problem.


----------



## fnsooner

davpet said:


> and it is already giving me the warning signal (two flashes)



Mine did that the other day. It was sitting on the table and would double flash every few seconds or so. I checked the voltage on the batteries and they all read 4.0VDC . I went ahead and charged the batteries. I have tried to duplicate the scenario but haven’t been able to.


----------



## davpet

fnsooner said:


> Mine did that the other day. It was sitting on the table and would double flash every few seconds or so. I checked the voltage on the batteries and they all read 4.0VDC . I went ahead and charged the batteries. I have tried to duplicate the scenario but haven’t been able to.



I charged the batteries today. When I put them in the charger it showed 4.1 volts on each! and the light still thought it was not enough for turbo. I wonder if 4.35 volt batteries would be better suited for the M43.


----------



## Giocomo

davpet said:


> I charged the batteries today. When I put them in the charger it showed 4.1 volts on each! and the light still thought it was not enough for turbo. I wonder if 4.35 volt batteries would be better suited for the M43.


Currently no 4.35V are high drain, if you want you can use HKJ's comparator to see they are no match for serious drain cells, HE2, HE4, HG2, VTV5, 30Q whic are all 4.2V cells. The 4.35V caells have no advantage as they sag more at already only 5A, than those cells I mentioned before. Any 3400mAh cells is most likely based on the NCR18650B which is a really bad cells in terms of high current, I believe it would be a waste of time to even try to argue on the NCR18650B matter, especially protected cells which add even more resistance to the cell (even more not all protection circuits have identical resistance, but most have quit high anyway)


----------



## Giocomo

I am wondering why not send a message to the seller or the manufacturer, asking why there are two blinks on turbo instead of guessing? Because as far as I know, the double blink does not only represent lower voltage, but also higher battery resistance, high temperature.
The double blink/warning function can also be switched off if you want, it is the last function in the right column in the manual, check it out, 12 clicks and hold the 13th.


----------



## fnsooner

Giocomo said:


> The double blink/warning function can also be switched off if you want, it is the last function in the right column in the manual, check it out, 12 clicks and hold the 13th.



Thanks for the guidance Giocomo, the twelve clicks and then hold on thirteen helped me to sort out some other things.

I have the owners manual downloaded to my desktop and reference it all the time. I can find no mention of the “twelve clicks and then hold on the thirteenth” in it. Manual



Giocomo said:


> I am wondering why not send a message to the seller or the manufacturer, asking why there are two blinks on turbo instead of guessing?


----------



## davpet

fnsooner said:


> I have the owners manual downloaded to my desktop and reference it all the time. I can find no mention of the “twelve clicks and then hold on the thirteenth” in it. Manual



It's only mentioned on the 3 UI graphs. My light already started blinking today on turbo. I also switched the warning off, but still, that can't be the solution.


----------



## fnsooner

Ah, I see it now. I was looking for it in the text. 

Mine was doing the double blink while off. I have a lot of gadgetry and possible blinky things around the house and it took me a minute to locate the source.


----------



## davpet

Giocomo said:


> Currently no 4.35V are high drain, if you want you can use HKJ's comparator to see they are no match for serious drain cells, HE2, HE4, HG2, VTV5, 30Q whic are all 4.2V cells. The 4.35V caells have no advantage as they sag more at already only 5A, than those cells I mentioned before. Any 3400mAh cells is most likely based on the NCR18650B which is a really bad cells in terms of high current, I believe it would be a waste of time to even try to argue on the NCR18650B matter, especially protected cells which add even more resistance to the cell (even more not all protection circuits have identical resistance, but most have quit high anyway)




Thanks for the info. 4.35 volts only came to my mind because of the manual. With these 4.2 volt cells even when fully charged, the light will only blink 5 times when activating the charge level indicator. BTW do you know the theoretical minimum voltage of the LG HG2 cells where they would still be able to provide enough current for the turbo mode? As it seems now, at least with my cells and light, it dials back the output even at 4.1 volts.
Actually I don't really understand why only Ampere values are given. To me it makes no sense, because as Volts decrease, Amperes have to increase to maintain same output, so in the manual Watt values should be stated.


----------



## DeanW8

Does anyone have experience using this flashlight for videography with 219BT LED 90 CRI? How well did it do? I am also wondering how do lower outputs affect CRI? Should I expect maximum CRI only when running it at certain output (maximum)?
I will definitely get this flashlight, but I am debating whether to go for the high CRI version and also use it for videography, or to just go for the higher lumen and throw version and get something else for videos.
Thanks!


----------



## Esko

DeanW8 said:


> Does anyone have experience using this flashlight for videography with 219BT LED 90 CRI? How well did it do? I am also wondering how do lower outputs affect CRI? Should I expect maximum CRI only when running it at certain output (maximum)?
> I will definitely get this flashlight, but I am debating whether to go for the high CRI version and also use it for videography, or to just go for the higher lumen and throw version and get something else for videos.
> Thanks!



The cri difference is very small and insignificant. For a reference, you could check the test results of the predecessor 219A

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?348171-Nichia-219-lumen-sphere-testing

Videography and photography was one of my excuses to buy this light (which is considerably more expensive than any of my older lights). However, 1. I haven't received my light yet (I assume it is in transit, haven't received any shipping notice or tracking number though) and 2. When shooting, I expect to use it mostly by bouncing the light from ceiling. So, no experiences yet.

:welcome:


----------



## plata0190

If I understood correcly more light is emitted higher CRI value?

but thus what would be CRI value in turbo mode for M43 nichia 219B-V1? The manual specificates that M43 uses 8.25A max in turbo, but what it should significate? and what is the A used for each led to compare with the table, and knowing the aproximate CRI value?


----------



## Esko

Yes, you got it right but the differences regarding cri are insignificant. Especially since you need to use one of the most powerful modes anyway. It is also noteworthy that once the illumination goes down, the camera sensor performance goes down, too.

There are 4 parallel groups of 3 leds in series and the current is divided between those 4 groups. So, it is roughly 2A per led. I don't remember seeing similar tests for 219B-V1 but I would expect that the color rendering performance is close to similar to that of 219A (and the small possible differences would be insignificant anyway). However, the color temperature will be slightly higher. There has also been some reports suggesting that while 219A had some rosy hue (tint), it would be smaller in newer versions. I.e. the light would be even whiter to eye. These are things that depend on the particular tint bins you happen to get, though.


----------



## DeanW8

Esko said:


> The cri difference is very small and insignificant. For a reference, you could check the test results of the predecessor 219A
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?348171-Nichia-219-lumen-sphere-testing
> 
> Videography and photography was one of my excuses to buy this light (which is considerably more expensive than any of my older lights). However, 1. I haven't received my light yet (I assume it is in transit, haven't received any shipping notice or tracking number though) and 2. When shooting, I expect to use it mostly by bouncing the light from ceiling. So, no experiences yet.
> 
> :welcome:


Thanks for the welcome and the link.

That is quite impressive, near 90 CRI regardless of the current.

Was Meteor ever made with using Nichia 219A or only with 219B? I think I would prefer warmer color of the A version.


----------



## Pöbel

fnsooner said:


> Oops, sorry I didn't clarify. Those are the original springs with some traditional springs inserted inside for some support. This was done solely to address the issue of the light shutting off when the tail is tapped. I haven't determined if I have helped the resistance issue. It couldn't hurt.
> 
> It may sound strange coming from someone on this site, but I am happy with the maximum output of the stock Meteor. I am trying to make a utility user out of this thing and probably won't use max much.



In this case resistance will be as good as stock. Maybe slightly better but not significantly so. A very nice and elegant solution. It adresses both the mechanical issues as well as the cosmetic problems with the other solution presented before. Maybe recommend it to Hank?



davpet said:


> I've found a little "problem" with the M43: if the batteries are not fresh off the charger, it doesn't take too much time before the light will not allow turbo, or even the 4A high in UI2. I've charged the batteries on Monday, flashed turbo a few times, and used low and medium modes for not more than 20 minutes, and it is already giving me the warning signal (two flashes) when I try to activate the higher high or turbo. I checked it with my light meter, the output is now the same on high and turbo, only a little brighter than high 1 (2A). Probably this has more to do with the batteries not being able to output that much current if the voltage is not at max. Still, the switch is not even green yet. Maybe this has been discussed before, but I wonder if a 2S2P battery configuration would have (at least partly) solved this problem.



what batteries are you using? I use Sammy 30E and there is absolutely no problem getting to turbo, even when the batteries are down a good bit (green light). 

You have to keep in mind that the voltage you measure when there is no load only tells you that much. Sure, it might idle at 4,1V - but when it drops significantly under load this is no good. In fact a good battery might read 3,9V idle but still have a higher voltage under load than your cell idling at 4,1V. If these are protected batteries voltage will even drop more.

2s2p would help, but it introduces other problems. With 4p you do not run into balancing problems as the batteries balance themselfes. You just need to use the right batteries (high-drain, unprotected preferably)


----------



## plata0190

Thank you, thus in turbo mode on M43 CRI value should be roghly 95. On the link you gave us tests was made with NVSL219AT-H1 92+ CRI, but 92+ is indicating the typical and not the minum value. BTW the new 219BT-V1 specifies a minimum CRI of 90.

I guess it's insignificant too or may be that the model tested has the same 90 CRI minimum is it possible?


----------



## davpet

Pöbel said:


> what batteries are you using?
> 
> 2s2p would help, but it introduces other problems. With 4p you do not run into balancing problems as the batteries balance themselfes. You just need to use the right batteries (high-drain, unprotected preferably)



I use the recommended LG INR18650-HG2 batteries. Actually the problem is solved. I recharged the cells once again, and used a significant force to screw on the head. This resulted in the light not blinking anymore on turbo. So, everything's fine!

If I'm not mistaken, the ThruNite TN36 UT uses a 4s configuration, which allows it to run over 7000 Lumens stock on protected cells that Vinh boosted up to over 13K. Even Lupine's proprietary batteries for its' flashlights use 2s or 2s2p, depending on the size of the pack. 

But to be fair, there is no point in increasing light output any further, if the heat issue is not solved. Quality materials, excellent heat sinking will make the lights too heavy. Personally I think that the M43 is a bit heavy as it is, and still, in my test at room temperature it deceased its output to about 2000 Lumens in a few minutes. What I think is needed is much more efficient leds and higher capacity batteries.


----------



## plata0190

I compared LG HG2 3000 with Soshine 3400 and Eizfan 3200, so the runtime in high mode was very different or unespected: in order 0:47 - 1.28 - 1.45 hours.

Take care that A absorbed was about 4A and the output power the same because tested with the m43 in the plastic basin. This is indicating that LG HG2 are not 3000mAh as declared but sounds to be less than 2000mAh . Another comparision made with Samsung INR 25R and Soshine 3400 with Tn36 in turbo mode (always into the plastic basin under water) and runtime difference was slightly smaller: 0:41 hours and 0:53 hours.


----------



## Pöbel

Did you measure brightness during this test? It might not have visibly stepped down, but ist still might have stepped for the soshine and eizfan while running on constant brightness with the HG2


----------



## plata0190

Do you mean it might stepped down even if cooled for all the time under water?
To avoid current lack of power I tested in High2, so all batteries was able to put out the required power of 4A - and the output should be always the same - this is the reason I tested cells using High2 mode.

I write here my readings testing in high2: Efan 3200: 100min - LG HG2: 70min. Making a proportion real capacity of LG HG2 are around 2240mAh.


----------



## Pöbel

Stepdown could also have occured due to the battery. It's not just heat making a light step down. It best to check the bounced brightness with a luxmeter now and then, because your eyes might not detect these changes. 47minutes vs 1h45minutes is too big of a discrepancy for the light to be running with flat regulation.

Also: if the battery capacity is rated down to 2,5V the Meteor will not use the full capacity (but that's true for all batteries)


----------



## boo

I am fairly new to LED flashlights.
My understanding and knowledge in reference to LED lights and Li-Ion batteries is limited.
I have three LED lights. The best is a Sunwayman D40A.
Would like to own one kick butt light in a small package.
I keep coming back to the Noctigon Meteor.
Some say they are afraid of unprotected Li-Ion batteries.
The Noctigon uses high drain, button top, unprotected batteries.
Is this light safe?.
Will some of the new Noctigon owners chime in and give the pros and cons on this light.
Over all, do you like it and would you buy it again?.

If, unprotected Li-ION batteries are unsafe, why would a company introduce a new flashlight that uses them.
Thanks boo.


----------



## mhanlen

They're not unsafe by themselves. Unprotected means they don't have an over discharge protection. Meaning that if a light doesn't have some sort of low voltage protection (the meteor does) it could drain the batteries to an unsafe level. So when using unprotected use them in a light that has built in protection like the meteor, or if you're not sure a good rule of thumb is, if the light output in a flashlight starts to significantly drop, charge the batteries. This is kind of the basic answer. The meteor is awesome, and I love mine.


----------



## mhanlen

Oh ad remember, if you do get the meteor- make sure you buy the batteries recommended on the purchase page.


----------



## Esko

They don't have overdischarge, overcharge or short circuit protection (quick discharge protection; different batteries have different maximum discharge currents). They are safe unless they are mistreated (in purpose or by accident). There are also many lithium chemistries used and the high drain batteries are generally safe*r* than the ordinary (and most common) lithium cobalt oxide batteries. Safer but not totally safe.

If you use a good quality charger and high drain cells, the only risk with Noctigon Meteor is that you can insert batteries that are at considerably different charging states. For example, you insert both empty and full batteries by accident. The batteries are in parallel and this would lead to instant charging of the empty cell, by the full cell, with a current that is comparative to short circuit.


----------



## boo

mhanlen said:


> Oh ad remember, if you do get the meteor- make sure you buy the batteries recommended on the purchase page.



Which page?. Which business?. Which batteries?.
Where is a good place to order from. "reputable dealer"?.
Can you recommend a good quality charger for this set up?.
Thanks boo


----------



## Esko

If you live in US: http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=505
Everywhere else: http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-418650-meteor-m43-p-864.html

They both have battery recommendations for Meteor.


----------



## Pöbel

boo said:


> If, unprotected Li-ION batteries are unsafe, why would a company introduce a new flashlight that uses them.
> Thanks boo.



If the charger does not stop and tries to indefinitely charge the unprotected cells they might explode or at least gas out. Just use a quality charger (no matter if the battery is protected or not). Also there is no protection against a short. If the battery is shorted massive amounts of Amps will flow.

Overdischarge is not really a problem, it will just kill the battery. No risk of explosion as there is not much energy left in the battery anyways.

So as long as the batterys are inside the meteor there is not really a risk to be aware of.


----------



## plata0190

I measured the ceiling bounce and was 98lux for all batteries at 4A of discharge rate.

Doing some calcules, if LG HG2 has a capacity of 3000mAh the total is 12Ah (12 A of continuos discharge in 1 hour). M43 is claimed to drain 8,25A in turbo, but to facilitate the example increase it plenty at 12A. Now M43 would last exactly 1 hour in turbo until it turns off. In my comparison with Efan 3200 and Samsung 25R is not like that, so M43 turns off at 0.47 hours. Adding the fact when battery is low (down to 3.40V), power drain still not at 10A but reduced: this adds a couple of minutes to the 1 hour calculated. Is it right?


----------



## mhanlen

boo said:


> Which page?. Which business?. Which batteries?.
> Where is a good place to order from. "reputable dealer"?.
> Can you recommend a good quality charger for this set up?.
> Thanks boo



Looks like it was answered in a post right below yours. The batteries are listed on the product pages. The meteor is only available at 2 websites... Both listed above. 

As far as a charger... The xtar vc4 plus is a nice charger.


----------



## fnsooner

Hey all, I did a little modifying that may interest some.

Any time I purchase a light that I find worthy as a keeper, I always start looking around for something to work as a diffuser. Especially if it is a good tail stander like the M43. Eventually, I started evil eyeing one of my Rayovac 3x D lanterns and its diffuser. 

I also have had my eye on a couple of P60 warm single mode 3.0A P60 dropins at int-outdoors and so I contacted them to see if I could also buy a couple of spare bezels and spring PCBs, for my Meteor, to add to the order. They said yes and here is the end result.

A lantern attachment for my M43.






I erred on the side of not getting epoxy on the threads and on the lip of the bezel, so it is a little sloppy around the base of the diffuser.

On my white XP-G2 dedome, I attached a 1¾”x¼” neodymium magnet to the tail. In the door panel of my truck there is storage space and a cup holder of sorts that this Meteor, in its holster, fits into perfectly. So it has found a home. It should be a great general purpose and emergency flashlight. Here is a picture of it and my other M43 with lantern attachment attached.





So, I think I have fitted these M43s to my needs. Here is a quick list of the mods I have done.


60mm acrylic lens to add a little durability
Spring mod to remedy the light from shutting off when tapped on the tail cap
Rayovac lantern diffuser attachment
Magnet

Usually, when I try to modify something, there is always compromises. Not in these four cases. It all went smoothly and painlessly. The acrylic lenses were stock items at flashlightlens.com and fit perfectly, and everything tightened and snugged down better than I could have expected. The springs fit and worked great and there was no soldering. What is better to use as a diffuser than one that is manufactured as a diffuser and has withstood the test of time?… and the magnet fits perfectly down into the recessed area of the tail cap.

I like. I hope I will get many years of use out of these lights. I think I will.


----------



## Esko

Isn't that magnet a bit overkill? If it is neodymium, I think it should be strong enough to lift some 10-40kg of metal.



fnsooner said:


> Any time I purchase a light that I find worthy as a keeper, I always start looking around for something to work as a diffuser.



Good thinking. After reading your reply, I went to ebay and learned that Fenix AOD-L diffuser fits 63mm flashlight heads, which is the size of Noctigon head, too. I guess that is what I will be buying.


----------



## fnsooner

Esko said:


> Isn't that magnet a bit overkill? If it is neodymium, I think it should be strong enough to lift some 10-40kg of metal.


Only time will tell. My EDC is a ZL SC62w with a magnet attached and I use it and the magnet all the time. As far as the size of the magnet, I tried some smaller ones and when the M43 was stuck to a vertical object, e.g,, refrigerator, breaker panel etc, it would slide down. The magnet seen in the pic is perfect. It holds tight but isn’t hard to remove from the object it is attached to. I wouldn’t’ want to do this to every flashlight I own, but I think it will be nice to have as an option on this light..

I work in the service industry and drive a one ton truck with a large tool box around and fix things. I think the M43 with a magnet will come in handy. Also, I am a flashaholc. It may be overkill. I didn’t think about it until you mentioned it.

I have never purchased a flashlight without the idea that it would be a user of some sort. I do think the M43 is bad to the bone. I just needed to tweek it a bit for my needs.





Esko said:


> Good thinking. After reading your reply, I went to ebay and learned that Fenix AOD-L diffuser fits 63mm flashlight heads, which is the size of Noctigon head, too. I guess that is what I will be buying.



I hope you do try the Fenix diffuser. If you do, be sure to update us on how it works. I am very interested.


----------



## Esko

I ordered it. I don't expect it to arrive very soon though, it was from the same ebay dealer that I ordered the batteries for Noctigon and surprisingly, it took them 1,5 weeks to ship...

I got my light btw. It is nice! Will update the impressions with the diffuser once it arrives.


----------



## DeanW8

nm...


----------



## Esko

I got the diffuser a few days ago. Some thoughts below.

The diameter matches on paper but the diffuser is not a perfect fit. It is slightly too small and the plastics is hard, it doesn't flex much. Putting the diffuser into boiling water helped to get it on but some additional hair dryer was needed to make the reshaping permanent. It fits quite well now.

The diffuser works as good as it is supposed to work. To my liking, it could reflect more light to sides (the top is a bit brighter than the sides now - Fenix may have designed it that way on purpose). Other than that, the light is nice and even and the diffuser is compact enough.

On the other hand, Noctigon is also a very floody light. I have only tested the diffuser at home so far. I have white ceilings and I do prefer ceiling bounce here. When comparing the two (ceiling bounce and diffuser), the difference in brightness very small. Diffusor just makes some shadows and looks like a "bright lighting bulb". Ceiling bounce makes it is easier to avoid having a bright spot in one's vision and that is why I prefer it. When there is no white ceilings to utilize, I expect the diffuser to do the work nicely.

I may try to take some photos later if desired.


----------



## boo

Ordered a Noctigon Meteor M43 XP G2 S3 3D light, Xtar VC4 charger with AC adapter, and 4 LGMJ1 3500 mAh button top unprotected high drain batteries about three days ago. It has been shipped and on its way.
Hope this is a combination that works.

Will someone recommend a minimum and maximum charge/discharge point for these batteries?.
I have never used Li-_Ion batteries before.
What is a safe range of operation?.

_


----------



## ChrisGarrett

boo said:


> Ordered a Noctigon Meteor M43 XP G2 S3 3D light, Xtar VC4 charger with AC adapter, and 4 LGMJ1 3500 mAh button top unprotected high drain batteries about three days ago. It has been shipped and on its way.
> Hope this is a combination that works.
> 
> Will someone recommend a minimum and maximum charge/discharge point for these batteries?.
> I have never used Li-_Ion batteries before.
> What is a safe range of operation?.
> 
> _



I'm seriously thinking about this light.

Your VC4 (and I have one) should charge them up to 4.20v (+/- .05v) and you should probably charge them up when they're around 3.6v. You can go lower, but you'll probably be running out of juice below 3.6v.

Most cells have a 'testing discharge voltage' of 2.5v, or 2.75v, but those levels are pretty much on lower currents at that point and just eeking out some output.

Chris


----------



## fnsooner

Esko said:


> I got the diffuser a few days ago. Some thoughts below.
> 
> The diameter matches on paper but the diffuser is not a perfect fit. It is slightly too small and the plastics is hard, it doesn't flex much. Putting the diffuser into boiling water helped to get it on but some additional hair dryer was needed to make the reshaping permanent. It fits quite well now.
> 
> I may try to take some photos later if desired.



I also ordered the Fenix diffuser, and like you, I found it too tight to go on. It fits nice and tight on my Eagletac MX30L4XC so that is where I will use it. LINK

I thought I was going to break one of the tabs trying to make it fit on the Meteor and didn’t think about heating it up to fit. I think I will order another and take my heat gun to it. Thanks for the update. I wouldn't mind a picture.




ChrisGarrett said:


> I'm seriously thinking about this light.
> 
> Chris


I like mine.


----------



## Esko

Here is a little comparison shot of the Noctigon with diffuser. The first photograph is Noctigon with ceiling bounce (white/beige ceiling is some 1,5 m above) and the next one is Noctigon with diffuser (the same settings used in both camera and flashlight in both pictures; diffuser surely beats ceiling bounce close to the light in photographs). The last photo is taken with a speedlight and the light is turned off.


----------



## boo

ChrisGarrett said:


> I'm seriously thinking about this light.
> 
> Your VC4 (and I have one) should charge them up to 4.20v (+/- .05v) and you should probably charge them up when they're around 3.6v. You can go lower, but you'll probably be running out of juice below 3.6v.
> 
> Most cells have a 'testing discharge voltage' of 2.5v, or 2.75v, but those levels are pretty much on lower currents at that point and just eeking out some output.
> 
> Chris



Thanks Chris.
I have been playing with my Meteor in my back yard. This thing is BRIGHT. I have to be careful about shinning toward my neighbors homes. One half to one acre lots average.
On turbo it warms up fairly quickly. Battery run time seems decent. I`m using Lg 3500 mAh non protected button tops.
It is a little on the heavy side but, easy to carry because it is short. Ok for coat pocket, too big for pants pocket.
On turbo it lights things up like a flood light.
So far I have been pleased.
A lot of light out of such a small package.


----------



## fnsooner

Thanks Esko.


----------



## Wavester

Hello all, I am considering this light. From what I read so far in this thread its a positive experience. I am assuming Thrunite 18650's wont do it justice?



boo said:


> Thanks Chris.
> I have been playing with my Meteor in my back yard. This thing is BRIGHT. I have to be careful about shinning toward my neighbors homes. One half to one acre lots average.
> On turbo it warms up fairly quickly. Battery run time seems decent. I`m using Lg 3500 mAh non protected button tops.
> It is a little on the heavy side but, easy to carry because it is short. Ok for coat pocket, too big for pants pocket.
> On turbo it lights things up like a flood light.
> So far I have been pleased.
> A lot of light out of such a small package.


----------



## richbuff

Wavester said:


> Hello all, I am considering this light. From what I read so far in this thread its a positive experience. I am assuming Thrunite 18650's wont do it justice?


You assume correct.

Protected batteries are a physical no fit, and also, can not deliver the required ooomph.

Please review the reviews and select unprotected IMR/hybrid. 

I use purple Efest 2500mAh 35A.

:welcome:


----------



## Kamakazikev24

I know I'm late to the party but I've just ordered one of these. Was looking for a compact 4x18650 to add to my collection!


----------



## eh4

I'm only just beginning to consider monster lights. This looks neat. 
Since the 4 18650 batteries are on parallel, how hard would it be to insert a charging port and eliminate taking the batteries out very often? 
Also, I assume that up to 3 of the 18650 cells could be borrowed to use in other lights if need be, and the M43 would still run fine on its lower modes. 
If it could be set up to charge the batteries while inside the light, this could be an extremely practical vehicle light.


----------



## oKtosiTe

eh4 said:


> I'm only just beginning to consider monster lights. This looks neat.
> Since the 4 18650 batteries are on parallel, how hard would it be to insert a charging port and eliminate taking the batteries out very often?
> Also, I assume that up to 3 of the 18650 cells could be borrowed to use in other lights if need be, and the M43 would still run fine on its lower modes.
> If it could be set up to charge the batteries while inside the light, this could be an extremely practical vehicle light.



Just to be safe: even though parallel configurations are inherently safer than serial configurations, inserting and particularly charging cells at wildly different charge levels is still a hazard and should be avoided.


----------



## Wavester

Thanks for the welcome. Sorry about the late reply - but I checked the battery you recommend - hopefully this is permitted to ask, I see a pair
on Amazon (purple) for $14 - is this a good price? Will they work on most flashlights that take the Thrunites I am using?
Thanks in advance.



richbuff said:


> You assume correct.
> 
> Protected batteries are a physical no fit, and also, can not deliver the required ooomph.
> 
> Please review the reviews and select unprotected IMR/hybrid.
> 
> I use purple Efest 2500mAh 35A.
> 
> :welcome:


----------



## Esko

eh4 said:


> I'm only just beginning to consider monster lights. This looks neat.
> Since the 4 18650 batteries are on parallel, how hard would it be to insert a charging port and eliminate taking the batteries out very often?
> Also, I assume that up to 3 of the 18650 cells could be borrowed to use in other lights if need be, and the M43 would still run fine on its lower modes.
> If it could be set up to charge the batteries while inside the light, this could be an extremely practical vehicle light.



The light is made very compact and I don't see any reasonable way to do it without messing up the looks and reliability. Of course, if you are willing to run it with only 3 batteries and leave the fourth slot free, charging option could be relatively easy to do using that space (afaik).



oKtosiTe said:


> Just to be safe: even though parallel configurations are inherently safer than serial configurations, inserting and particularly charging cells at wildly different charge levels is still a hazard and should be avoided.



If you have 3-4 similar batteries fixed in parallel, they will always be at the same voltage. In other words, very close to the same charge level, too.


----------



## bigshoe83

Has anyone attempted to use flat top cells with magnets in this light? I have 4 new HE4 flat tops that I would like to use in this light so I am thinking about trying the small magnets to make them button tops. I just don't know if the magnets will stay in place when I twist the head on.


----------



## The_Driver

I strongly recommend to not do that! It's very dangerous!
If a magnet moves, which is very likely in this light (because the batteries slide over the connection point in the head), the batteries might Short out, which will cause them to become extremely hot because they are unprotected high-drain cells with a very low internal resistance. It is basically like welding.
It is also possible that the cells might gas out which will cause the flashlight to explode because of the pressure.

At the end of the day this kind of safety risk is not worth saving a few dollars on cheaper cells.


----------



## bigshoe83

Thanks for the response, I went ahead and got some button top HE4's after thinking about it for a while. I got the V54 Goldilocks version and it is a sweet light.


----------



## Esko

I have been carrying the light on my belt and the light&holster have gotten quite a bunch of small minor hits. The bottom edges of the holster have worn out noticeably and the inner(?!) edge is broken. The options are to buy a new holster (which one and where?), to repair and strengthen the original one (how?) or to make a new from e.g. leather (never done before but interested in learning). The holster must look professional. Any suggestions?

I might start a new thread for repair or making option(s) in Homemade and modified flashlights section.


----------



## maukka

Mtnelectronics has a sweet deal (-$50.68) on the Meteor:
http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=505

Coupon: MFBM5NW


----------



## niktak11

maukka said:


> Mtnelectronics has a sweet deal (-$50.68) on the Meteor:
> http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=505
> 
> Coupon: MFBM5NW


Thanks, looks like this will be my first pop can light. Got the Nichia 219C 80+ CRI version


----------



## Esko

maukka said:


> Mtnelectronics has a sweet deal (-$50.68) on the Meteor:
> http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=505
> 
> Coupon: MFBM5NW



Well, that certainly is a great promotion and I think that the availability went from 32 to 7 in less than a day. Not sure about the Int-Outdoorstore stock. It seems they are having the sale, too.

I don't think that there has been any deals before. Not when it was announced, no black Friday sale, no CPF/BLF promotions, nothing, "because of the manufacturing costs and the price being as low as can be etc..." I hope this doesn't mean that they are discontinuing the light.


----------



## Glenn7

Or they are bringing out a new better model would be my guess.


----------



## RollerBoySE

Glenn7 said:


> Or they are bringing out a new better model would be my guess.



Or it could be that they are feeling the heat from the newly released Manker MK34, which is USD 129:95 (non discounted). The lights are similar, both sporting 12 LED:s from Cree or Nichia. 

The Meteor probably offers higher quality, but not 50+ dollars worth.


----------



## Glenn7

I have both and imo they are about on par for quality but I would give it to the manker as it's lighter and more ergonomic to hold way easier to find the switch and has a stronger bezel for if dropped (no big glass lens to break) 
Meteor has a choice of 3 UI's - manker has the best programmable firefly mode I have ever seen using 9 increments of choice, the first two you can barely see it on in the dark then up to 30 lumens.


----------



## RollerBoySE

Glenn7 said:


> I have both and imo they are about on par for quality but I would give it to the manker as it's lighter and more ergonomic to hold way easier to find the switch and has a stronger bezel for if dropped (no big glass lens to break)
> Meteor has a choice of 3 UI's - manker has the best programmable firefly mode I have ever seen using 9 increments of choice, the first two you can barely see it on in the dark then up to 30 lumens.



I also have both and I concur that both are well machined and built, on par as you say. But I suspect that the interior of the M43 might have an edge over MK34, for example the MK34 lacks temperature control. The MK34 however looks better and have a superior UI.


----------



## ncvarmint2016

maukka said:


> Mtnelectronics has a sweet deal (-$50.68) on the Meteor:
> http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=505
> 
> Coupon: MFBM5NW



I ordered one of these in the xp-g2 4000k tint last night, cant wait to get it. Are these in stock already built or do they have to be made then shipped? Anyone know
thanks


----------



## fnsooner

ncvarmint2016 said:


> I ordered one of these in the xp-g2 4000k tint last night, cant wait to get it. Are these in stock already built or do they have to be made then shipped? Anyone know
> thanks


If you like your lights a little warmer, you will love this one. The tint is amazing. I have three Meteors and the 4000k variant is my favorite. 

Not sure about whether they are pre-made or not.


----------



## ncvarmint2016

Just got shipping notice
cant wait


fnsooner said:


> If you like your lights a little warmer, you will love this one. The tint is amazing. I have three Meteors and the 4000k variant is my favorite.
> 
> Not sure about whether they are pre-made or not.


----------



## ven

Congrats, should be amazing, heck i love the little m361N and EDCplus 4000k xp-g2's..............i can only imagine 12 of them Really is a nice tint.


----------



## ncvarmint2016

I cant wait to get it monday.
only batts i have now for it are the green panasonic 2900 mah button top unprotected. Are these okay for now?
i want to buy 4 more batteries and was wondering what you guys are using? The higher capactiy the better.
thanks
QUOTE=ven;4965577]Congrats, should be amazing, heck i love the little m361N and EDCplus 4000k xp-g2's..............i can only imagine 12 of them Really is a nice tint.[/QUOTE]


----------



## staticx57

Richard is building these himself. Can't wait to get my White 219C ET


----------



## doug5551

Varmint, 

I got the last one last night with the same specs as yours from Mountain Electronics. I went with the recommended Sony VTC5 batteries. I hope they are a good choice for this model.


----------



## Esko

All gone, no information about the future of the Meteor in any media, however, the maker of the Meteor gave some teaser specs of a near future flashlight with 8*18650 and 9*XHP35... :thinking:

Also, no suggestions regarding the potential replacement holsters? I guess it shall be the diy route then...


----------



## drummer132132

Noctigon is making a new light? Have a link to the info?


----------



## Theodore41

drummer132132 said:


> Noctigon is making a new light? Have a link to the info?



Yes they do,but something else, with 17000 Lumen,with 8X18650s and 270Kcd!


----------



## Esko

drummer132132 said:


> Noctigon is making a new light? Have a link to the info?



It was in the linked thread, have a shortcut.

This light will be big and heavy but it is also more powerful than the competition (lumens and runtime). Interesting to see the result...

( I hope it comes with a firefly mode..  )


----------



## drummer132132

Wow...this year I hope?


----------



## doug5551

Wonder if it will have any heat issues. ..


----------



## drummer132132

doug5551 said:


> Wonder if it will have any heat issues. ..



Haha probably but who knows. Maybe it will have enough mass to compensate for it [emoji48]


----------



## mjgsxr

doug5551 said:


> Wonder if it will have any heat issues. ..



Maybe they'll throw in a free pair of welder's gloves.


----------



## mjgsxr

Thought the upcoming acebeam x65 looked good but this definitely has my attention. Likely to be a more compact light if the M43 is anything to go buy.


----------



## drummer132132

Was there any speculation on when this would debut?


----------



## mjgsxr

Production before end of the year.:santa:. Will probably be 9 XHP35 HI using optics to give the throw instead of traditional reflector. Should keep it compact.


----------



## drummer132132

That will be nice. Wonder how compact we are talking given the mention of 8 batteries. Exciting and probably something to definitely pick up when available.


----------



## mjgsxr

No idea on the size. With 8 batteries it will be at least twice as long as the M43, more likely 2.5 times longer. Thinking there going to have to incorporate some cooling fins or it could go in to melt down in seconds.


----------



## Esko

mjgsxr said:


> No idea on the size. With 8 batteries it will be at least twice as long as the M43, more likely 2.5 times longer. Thinking there going to have to incorporate some cooling fins or it could go in to melt down in seconds.



According to Hank, compact size is the target. 8*18650 means it is at least 6,5 cm longer (assuming the most probablebattery positioning). Tailcap? No need to be bigger. Electronics? No need to be bigger, at least not much. Lenses? 9 leds so 1900lm/led and 30kcd per led. It equals to what? [email protected]? Zebralight SC300 III has a XHP35, 1300 lumens and 13300lx, so, the optics should probably be bigger than the reflector in Zebralights. Let's say 3 cm wide and 3 cm deep. This gives us +2 cm in length compared to Meteor and the head is wider, too. So, the length could be 19 cm with a head diameter of some 11 cm. Plus the handle.


----------



## drummer132132

Just hoping for more mass to compensate for the heat. Is this going to be a thrower?


----------



## markr6

This light is going to damage many floors when dropped!


----------



## drummer132132

markr6 said:


> This light is going to damage many floors when dropped!



Since it will be heavy or melt through the floors? [emoji6]

To be honest I never felt the M43 in general was that hot. The time it took turbo to get hot felt right. Same for all the other high modes. They felt right in the time it took for them to step down.


----------



## niktak11

Hopefully they have a lease option


----------



## Gkyle840

I have just ordered these Panasonic 30Q cells and was curious if they would work in this light?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/roptv8zhrlz7xkx/Screenshot_20160919-105621.png?dl=0


----------



## staticx57

Gkyle840 said:


> I have just ordered these Panasonic 30Q cells and was curious if they would work in this light?
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/roptv8zhrlz7xkx/Screenshot_20160919-105621.png?dl=0



No you cannot. Those are flat tops the m43 needs button top


----------



## mjgsxr

drummer132132 said:


> Just hoping for more mass to compensate for the heat. Is this going to be a thrower?



+1 for more mass and yes it's going to be a thrower.


----------



## Transient

staticx57 said:


> No you cannot. Those are flat tops the m43 needs button top



I'm not sure mine are true flat tops, but I just wanted to confirm that my NCR18650GA flat tops work great in this light. The ones that can be seen here:

https://www.fasttech.com/product/2399300-authentic-sanyo-ncr18650ga-3-6v-3500mah

I got the light today and was kind of questioning whether or not they'd work from conversations earlier in the thread, but I'm glad they do. I do have some 20A fast discharge button-top 18650s on the way, but the light has no interruption in power when shaken or dropped a few inches onto my desk with the GAs. Light is plenty bright with the 10A batteries, but I'm still curious if ill notice any difference in performance with the ICR18650HG2s.

This light is my first foray outside of Fenix and 4sevens lights, and I'm pleasantly surprised. A lot of light in a really small package. Really looking forward to the 17,000 lumen 8x 18650 monster later this year. Hopefully it doesn't cost $500 like the X65 is rumored to be and like I'm guessing the Olight X9 will be too.


----------



## RollerBoySE

Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA have a raised plus pole, which is "button" enough for the M43.


----------



## staticx57

"flat" top GA on the left and true flat top 30Q on the right.


----------



## Glenn7

http://www.banggood.com/4PCS-Samsun...ected-Button-Top-18650-Battery-p-1067185.html got about 12 of these good batteries. 
Got my eyes on these next they are better again but have no nipples unfortunately https://m.fasttech.com/products/0/10004185/5549800-authentic-sony-us18650vtc6-3120mah-rechargeable


----------



## Stereodude

Glenn7 said:


> Got my eyes on these next they are better again but have no nipples unfortunately https://m.fasttech.com/products/0/10004185/5549800-authentic-sony-us18650vtc6-3120mah-rechargeable


They're only a little bit better and are quite a bit more money.


----------



## Glenn7

Stereodude said:


> They're only a little bit better and are quite a bit more money.


Better is better... (you can see it here but I'm not sure if these green sony's are the same as these new ones as they are saying have slightly higher mAh again http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php) guess I meant next time I need some batteries I might go with them as they are incrementally better - maybe you missed the price but $2.59 extra for 4 x Sony is not quite a bit more?

BTW if anybody is interested in diffusers I use these they are cheap and fit well (but overlap the button a bit) http://www.banggood.com/Flashlight-...light-SR51-M3X-Surefire-M6-UB3T-p-925325.htmls


----------



## Stereodude

Glenn7 said:


> Better is better... (you can see it here but I'm not sure if these green sony's are the same as these new ones as they are saying have slightly higher mAh again http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php) guess I meant next time I need some batteries I might go with them as they are incrementally better - maybe you missed the price but $2.59 extra for 4 x Sony is not quite a bit more?


I had compared them from HJK's comparator before. Like I said, they're a little bit better. Flat top 30Qs from BG are $8.49 a pair with a coupon code found here: http://www.m4dm4x.com/, so four are $16.98 shipped to the US. The Sony VT6 are twice as expensive at $34.39 shipped to the US. So, at twice the price and only a little bit better? No thanks, I'd rather have two sets of 30Qs.


----------



## doug5551

My M43 arrives today. I got one of the last ones from Mountain.

Anyone who recently got their discounted M43 have any impressions or opinions.

I would love to hear.


----------



## niktak11

doug5551 said:


> My M43 arrives today. I got one of the last ones from Mountain.
> 
> Anyone who recently got their discounted M43 have any impressions or opinions.
> 
> I would love to hear.


Mine also arrives today. Hopefully the VTC5s charge quickly enough to use it today. I really need a charger that can output more than 4x0.5A


----------



## Transient

doug5551 said:


> My M43 arrives today. I got one of the last ones from Mountain.
> 
> Anyone who recently got their discounted M43 have any impressions or opinions.
> 
> I would love to hear.



I got mine (White XP-G2 S4 2B, 7450lm) 2 days ago and absolutely love it. It pretty much immediately became my favorite light. For $130 it is a steal. It easily blows my LD75C out of the water for brightness, and has a more usable minimum brightness mode while being easily half the size. I was expecting it to be of a little lower build quality overall, but everything is nicely machined. Time will tell its reliability. I've got almost a dozen Fenix lights and a handful of 4sevens lights I haven't had a single issue with over 4 or 5 years, so I'm hopeful it can compete there. 

I'm also wishing more of my lights had backlit buttons now. It makes finding it in the dark very easy and I'm sure I'll appreciate that when I get the chance to take it camping.

The basic 3 mode UI is enough for me and I won't miss having a dozen different modes to hunt through. Its so nice to be able to quick tap into firefly mode, double tap into the midrange mode, and short/long hold for turbo. I dont miss mode memory at all and can quickly get the light doing the output level I wanted in the first place.

Anyway, no complaints from me so far. After being so impressed with the M43 I am eagerly awaiting their rumored 17k lumen light and will hold off buying a X65, Olight X9 or a Vinh light until I hear more.


----------



## doug5551

Transient...

Thanks for your comments. Mine arrived. White, S2 5A3, 4k and 6600 Lm. My VTC5s are cooking right now. My quick impressions are that it's extremely small and very high build quality.

Thanks for your discussion about the upcoming releases. It matches my beliefs and I am in exact agreement with you.


----------



## niktak11

Just opened mine. Damn this thing is small!!!!! My VTC5s came at 3.52V so it'll be awhile before I can turn this baby on

Just curious, are the current numbers for each mode from the manual per triple, per battery, or total current?


----------



## The_Driver

niktak11 said:


> Just curious, are the current numbers for each mode from the manual per triple, per battery, or total current?



The current values in the manual are per battery. If you use less than four batteries the current will be higher accordingly.
In Turbo mode each LED gets 2A.


----------



## ncvarmint2016

Just used my M43 and noticed the switch button light is flashing once every 2 or so seconds after i turned it off. Never done this before. Is this normal?


----------



## mjgsxr

You probably have accidentally activated the charge level indicator when off. You need to fast click 3 times and hold to turn off again. Less likely is the button needs dried out.

Copied this out of the manual,

''3 Fast Clicks and Hold - Button Backlight, uses constant charge level indication by Blue GreenRed in OFF-state''

''If the button backlight flashes slowly and smoothly both in ON-state and OFF-state meansthere is moisture inside the button switch area of the flashlight and it needs to be dried.''


----------



## ncvarmint2016

That fixed it 
thanks


----------



## niktak11

I have a question for people who use UI2. When I'm in high and I hold down the button it cycles down to low. The only way I can get to turbo from on is if I start in low or medium and cycle all the way past high without stopping. The UI flow diagram shows that you can cycle up or down from any mode but it shows "hold" as the action for both directions. How do I get from high to turbo or from low to medium? If I hold the button when in low, medium, or turbo it cycles "up" and if I hold down the button starting from high, it cycles down. Is this the expected behavior?


----------



## mjgsxr

I use the same ui as you and that sounds normal. If you want better access to turbo from any mode ui 1 might be for you.


----------



## carl

Did anyone purchase the latest M43 from Int'l Outdoors with the newer machining on the head (next to the switch)?

http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-418650-meteor-m43-p-864.html


----------



## StandardBattery

carl said:


> Did anyone purchase the latest M43 from Int'l Outdoors with the newer machining on the head (next to the switch)?
> 
> http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-418650-meteor-m43-p-864.html


I did, but I'm not sure how fast they are shipping these. I think many are waiting to see if they list some with the Nichia.


----------



## Sen0rphil

I'm thinking of picking one up, the S4 3D version.


----------



## StandardBattery

I'm not sure why I bought this one, but mostly I think because it started a new wave for the Soda-Can lights. I already have the Manker MK34 and the X7, but I guess i wanted the first to start this new wave. The MK34 I think is amazing and I like the body of the light they machined for the 3x battery bay. It fits my hand perfect and I find it much nicer than the pure soda-can cylinder to hold... not to mention it's small and makes the X7 look huge (which it really isn't). The Meteor is small also, so I guess that was another reason I wanted to try it as I generally like small power houses more than large monsters. Can't wait for it to get here, and then I do believe I am done with this type of light for a good while.... but there is one company promising something similar... I hope I can resist.


----------



## carl

1) Why isn't the XPL-HI option offered anymore? I think it bumped up the output to about 8500 lumens.
2) One reviewer on the Mountain Electronics site said Richard can do some sort of battery spring mod. What is this mod? Maybe for the earlier versions with spring issues?
3) Do any of you think the M43 is too heavy?
4) How many lumens is the moon mode and low mode?
5) Hove there been any e-switch failures or finicky-ness experienced by any owners?

Thank you.


----------



## Toolboxkid

carl said:


> 1) Why isn't the XPL-HI option offered anymore? I think it bumped up the output to about 8500 lumens.
> 2) One reviewer on the Mountain Electronics site said Richard can do some sort of battery spring mod. What is this mod? Maybe for the earlier versions with spring issues?
> 3) Do any of you think the M43 is too heavy?
> 4) How many lumens is the moon mode and low mode?
> 5) Hove there been any e-switch failures or finicky-ness experienced by any owners?
> 
> Thank you.



I contacted Richard and he said he does not offer any spring mod. Mine was turning off when it would get bumped, especially when it gets warm. This is due to the springs relaxing. Richard advised that a way to correct this would be to put steel springs under the fancy springs, but I have yet to find any springs that would fit. The light is a bit heavy but it's also very bright and has a useful beam.


----------



## EDness

StandardBattery said:


> I'm not sure why I bought this one, but mostly I think because it started a new wave for the Soda-Can lights. I already have the Manker MK34 and the X7, but I guess i wanted the first to start this new wave. The MK34 I think is amazing and I like the body of the light they machined for the 3x battery bay. It fits my hand perfect and I find it much nicer than the pure soda-can cylinder to hold... not to mention it's small and makes the X7 look huge (which it really isn't). The Meteor is small also, so I guess that was another reason I wanted to try it as I generally like small power houses more than large monsters. Can't wait for it to get here, and then I do believe I am done with this type of light for a good while.... but there is one company promising something similar... I hope I can resist.



I have a X7 as well and recently bought a M43 with Nichia LEDs. I love the size of the M43 and the power it packs. With the Nichia 219C 70+ LEDs, the tint is great!

If I bought this before the X7, I might not have bought the X7. Although my X7 is the Vinh modded version...even with it putting out 16000 lumens, I still prefer the M43.


----------



## richbuff

I know how you feel, I too am impressed with M43. Size, power, form, function, build quality, cutting edge done-that-firstness, oozing cachet, enduring classicness. 

My M43 is Vinh modded, original factory driver, XPL dedomed. I would love to have the Vinh X7, but I already have:

TN36UTvn,
TK75VnxQ70,
M43 as mentioned,

and Acebeam X65 ordered,

and others.


----------



## carl

Toolboxkid said:


> ...but I have yet to find any springs that would fit.



See page 28 of same M43 thread we're in now:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?397464-Noctigon-Meteor-M43/page28


----------



## carl

oops, double post


----------



## TheJaRoD

The Noctigon M43 seems like a really good light but correct me if I'm wrong but the efficiency seems a bit low compared to other lights. Seems like it's mostly built for output and not runtime, atleast compared to a zebralight. I currently have a nitecore Tm06S incoming and the past few days I really got into the M43 since it has a zebralight like interface and high output/CRI for it's size and very well built. But runtimes for the M43 are very hard to find and the best I've able to find have been http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=27458 and according to that mid2 would be 9w and turbo would be 89.6w meaning mid2 would be (9/89,6)*7450 (for a new NW S4 3D) = 748 lumens for 4 hours 6 minutes. Compared to the TM06S http://www.nitecorestore.com/NiteCore-TM06S-4000-Lumen-LED-Flashlight-p/fl-nite-tm06s.htm which shows 1500 lumens for 4 hours.

Is it just the difference in battery capacity for high amp batteries vs high capasity batteries or am I missing something?


----------



## Connor

@TheJaRod
The M43 is using multiple emitters of lesser efficiency .. and this adds up (x12). It's like you said: built for high output, not for efficiency. 
High CRI LEDs are always less efficient.


----------



## EDness

TheJaRoD said:


> The Noctigon M43 seems like a really good light but correct me if I'm wrong but the efficiency seems a bit low compared to other lights. Seems like it's mostly built for output and not runtime, atleast compared to a zebralight. I currently have a nitecore Tm06S incoming and the past few days I really got into the M43 since it has a zebralight like interface and high output/CRI for it's size and very well built. But runtimes for the M43 are very hard to find and the best I've able to find have been http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=27458 and according to that mid2 would be 9w and turbo would be 89.6w meaning mid2 would be (9/89,6)*7450 (for a new NW S4 3D) = 748 lumens for 4 hours 6 minutes. Compared to the TM06S http://www.nitecorestore.com/NiteCore-TM06S-4000-Lumen-LED-Flashlight-p/fl-nite-tm06s.htm which shows 1500 lumens for 4 hours.
> 
> Is it just the difference in battery capacity for high amp batteries vs high capasity batteries or am I missing something?



The review used Sony VTC5 2600mah batteries. If you use Sanyo 18650GA or LG MJ1 with 3500mah cells, run times will improve dramatically. 

Turbo mode might not be as bright, but it sounded like you are more concerned on run times on the lower output levels.


----------



## TheJaRoD

Thanks for the help, guess I'll just wait and see if they release a version that's more efficient since even accounting for better batteries doesn't add upp to the TM06S which is enough for what I need. And yes high runtimes at a decently high output is what I'm looking for. And if the TM06S really can do 1500 lumens for 4 hours that's about perfect. And if I need longer runtimes at lower levels I have my zebralight sc600 MkII (which I love).


----------



## StorminMatt

EDness said:


> The review used Sony VTC5 2600mah batteries. If you use Sanyo 18650GA or LG MJ1 with 3500mah cells, run times will improve dramatically.
> 
> Turbo mode might not be as bright, but it sounded like you are more concerned on run times on the lower output levels.



A good compromise might be to use the Sony VTC6. It's rated at 3000mAH. But per HKJ's testing, this seems to be pretty REAL capacity (unlike other 18650s, and more like 26650s). In other words, capacity is fairly close to the NCR18650B (only lower by maybe 100-200mAH, depending on current draw). But voltage is maintained VERY well. Other 3000mAH high current cells (is Samsung 30Q, LG HG2) would be good choices as well.


----------



## Canuke

TheJaRoD said:


> The Noctigon M43 seems like a really good light but correct me if I'm wrong but the efficiency seems a bit low compared to other lights. Seems like it's mostly built for output and not runtime, atleast compared to a zebralight. I currently have a nitecore Tm06S incoming and the past few days I really got into the M43 since it has a zebralight like interface and high output/CRI for it's size and very well built. But runtimes for the M43 are very hard to find and the best I've able to find have been http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=27458 and according to that mid2 would be 9w and turbo would be 89.6w meaning mid2 would be (9/89,6)*7450 (for a new NW S4 3D) = 748 lumens for 4 hours 6 minutes. Compared to the TM06S http://www.nitecorestore.com/NiteCore-TM06S-4000-Lumen-LED-Flashlight-p/fl-nite-tm06s.htm which shows 1500 lumens for 4 hours.
> 
> Is it just the difference in battery capacity for high amp batteries vs high capasity batteries or am I missing something?



As I understand it, the M43 is 4 parallel cells into 4 groups of 3 LED's in series. That means a boost driver from ~4V to around ~9-10V Vf, and boost circuits get less efficient the bigger the boost is, vs. buck circuits. The TM06 looks like 4 parallel cells into 3 parallel XM-L2 emitters, which is mild buck territory ~4V into ~3.5V Vf or so - much more efficient.


----------



## The_Driver

Concerning efficiency in the 9W mode: 
Yes, the Meteor is less efficient than some other lights. One reason is that it has a boost driver. Another are the carclo optics (they aren't made out of glass and are not ar-coated). In the 9W setting I estimate 1200 otf lumens with Cree XP-G2 S4 LEDs. 
Here's how I calculated that value: 
9W is the power draw from the batteries in Mid2 mode. I'm guessing the boost driver is around 85% efficient (it's a very advanced, high quality driver, but the value could be different). So all the LED together only get 7.65W. Divide this by 12 for a single LED. Each LED gets around 0.64W in Mid2 mode. I then checked in the Cree PCT what brightnes a Cree XP-G2 S4 has at 0.64W and a low temperature (25°C) - around 124.5 Lumens. Multiply this by 12- So the light produces around 1494 LED Lumens. Not mulitply this by 0.85 (losses of carclo optics, I guessed) and by 0.96 (losses of cheap AR-coated glass lens). That's how I get around 1200 otf lumens for mid2 mode and Cree XP-G2 S4 LEDs. It's really not that bad.
The XP-L HI model should be more efficient.

The runtime will depend entirely on the used batteries. At such a low wattage high-capacity batteries will be best (Panasonic NCR GA). Pulling around 0.6A from each battery the runtime in mid2 should be around 5.5h with these batteries.


----------



## TheJaRoD

Your calculations are more correct than mine so now it makes much more sense. It just seemed really strange it would be as bad as I calculated. And that might mean I'll have to get one at that price...

//Edit
Yep had to get one... Will have to check out which I like more when I get them. And I'll have to get new batteries to even be able to run the noctigon...


----------



## bullterrier

Any news on the successor to the M43?


----------



## niktak11

bullterrier said:


> Any news on the successor to the M43?


The last thing I read was that it's taking longer than expected


----------



## TCY

I have sent my M43 back for repair a couple month back and I had a chance to talk to the owner (he sounded like the owner anyway). I was told that the new Noctigon light would not be available until the end of 2016. They probably ran into some technical difficulties or they are still polishing the final product.


----------



## morepho87

4000k


----------



## jalano1222

How to turn off the annoying blinking light on the switch?


----------



## TCY

jalano1222 said:


> How to turn off the annoying blinking light on the switch?



press the button twice, press another time and hold the button. LEDs will flash to tell you that the blinking is activated/deactivated.


----------



## bullterrier

Any news on the successor to the M43?


----------



## hugodrax

how do you guys like the M43 so far from use? I decided to buy 4 (3 blacks and 1 white) There does seem to be little stock on these lights? Are the discontinued?


----------



## torchsarecool

Yea i believe theyre being discontinued now and just running out stock. I bought xpg2 4000k and 5700k and a nichia 219C 5000k. The nichia is sold and the 5700k will be Going soon.....but the 4000k is staying because i love the tint! Just needed to try them all to choose my preference. This is the light which has most influenced my preference of tint. Also im now swaying towards flood lights as theyre more useful. Had nowhere to use my tn42vn, and found it a bit too big for practical use so i sold that today. 
So the meteor is awesome, i love the tint, compact size, quality and the look of it. The UI is tricky, but im ok with it.


----------



## richbuff

Also, plus what *torchsarecool* has posted,

The Noctigon Meteor is one of my favorites. There are smaller, more carryable lights, and there are larger lights with higher performance. But........ 

The Noctigon Meteor excels at providing great combination of power and throw in its compactness class. 

It also is an enduring classic for many other reasons. 

It is also available from world-renowned modders with different interface and higher power levels and different selection of emitters.


----------



## hugodrax

Interesting looked like I missed out on the initial sales. I ordered 3 black 5700K, 1 white 4000K and 1 white 219CT for 5 lights total.
I really like the way this light is built. reminds me of the arc light of 2000-2004? Anyone remember that small light? ARC-LS??


----------



## hugodrax

The lights came in. I have to day, Pictures and videos do no justice to what you actually get. This thing is a beautiful looking work of art in itself. If Apple made a flashlight I would say it would look like the M43 in fit/finish/look. It looks like something that would belong in the the Museum of Arts and Design sitting along side the Eames Chair, and assorted Apple products.

I wonder how many of these lights were actually produced in total?


----------



## ZestLight

Count me in. M43 it is! I don't know why I instantly became a flashlight junkie. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But here I 'm! Going to get the Fenix diffuser as well. Thanks for all the great input!



Esko said:


> I got the diffuser a few days ago. Some thoughts below.
> 
> The diameter matches on paper but the diffuser is not a perfect fit. It is slightly too small and the plastics is hard, it doesn't flex much. Putting the diffuser into boiling water helped to get it on but some additional hair dryer was needed to make the reshaping permanent. It fits quite well now.
> 
> The diffuser works as good as it is supposed to work. To my liking, it could reflect more light to sides (the top is a bit brighter than the sides now - Fenix may have designed it that way on purpose). Other than that, the light is nice and even and the diffuser is compact enough.
> 
> On the other hand, Noctigon is also a very floody light. I have only tested the diffuser at home so far. I have white ceilings and I do prefer ceiling bounce here. When comparing the two (ceiling bounce and diffuser), the difference in brightness very small. Diffusor just makes some shadows and looks like a "bright lighting bulb". Ceiling bounce makes it is easier to avoid having a bright spot in one's vision and that is why I prefer it. When there is no white ceilings to utilize, I expect the diffuser to do the work nicely.
> 
> I may try to take some photos later if desired.


----------



## KG_Tuning

There aren't any M43 219C beam shot vids on youtube so I made one last night


----------



## bullterrier

Any news on the successor to the M43?


----------



## fnsooner

morepho87 said:


> 4000k


Yep. My favorite. Thinking about getting another.


----------



## markr6

bullterrier said:


> Any news on the successor to the M43?



I can't wait to see! I hope the UI is tweaked to remove the cheesy stadium lighting affect, fading up/down when switching levels. Just a waste of time.


----------



## K2-bk-bl-rd

I just ordered a 4000k! I was hoping to get a Vinh version, but figured I'd try the factory version before I spend the extra money on a V54.


----------



## Fra881

I just happened to pick up my Meteor M43 after 3-4 months on inactivity (soft locked with the 6 clicks but not locked out unscrewing the body from the head). The problem is, the light didn't turn on and measuring the cells (LG HG2 practically new) they are at 0.2V. They were left in the light almost completely charged.


I guess I can consider them dead and shouldn't even try to charge them, but how is it possible? Does the M43 have such a high current drain when off or does this imply some problem with my torch?


----------



## aginthelaw

Fra881 said:


> I just happened to pick up my Meteor M43 after 3-4 months on inactivity (soft locked with the 6 clicks but not locked out unscrewing the body from the head). The problem is, the light didn't turn on and measuring the cells (LG HG2 practically new) they are at 0.2V. They were left in the light almost completely charged.
> 
> 
> I guess I can consider them dead and shouldn't even try to charge them, but how is it possible? Does the M43 have such a high current drain when off or does this imply some problem with my torch?



I would contact mtnelectronics or intl-outdoor directly and inform them. I made the mistake of leaving my streamlight flashlight charging next to my bed. My wife needed it and left it on bezel down and left a nice burn mark in The wood. My son used it later (under my wife’s supervision) and when the battery died, he threw it in the garbage. Is it possible you’re related to someone like that?


----------



## Fra881

no, I'm 100% sure the light has stayed off since the last time I correctly turned it off and soft locked with the 6 clicks, about 3-4 months ago..


----------



## oKtosiTe

aginthelaw said:


> I made the mistake of leaving my streamlight flashlight charging next to my bed. My wife needed it and left it on bezel down and left a nice burn mark in The wood. My son used it later (under my wife’s supervision) and when the battery died, he threw it in the garbage.


Everything about that sounds wrong. oo:


----------



## Fra881

ok so the standby current drain of my M43 measures at 21uA, which is pretty normal and negligible.

is it possible that in only a few months the batteries have self-discharged to 0.2V? maybe being INR they have a much higher self discharge than a classic ICR.. I'm just guessing, since I can't think of any other reason they could have discharged so much.


----------



## bullterrier

Have anyone heard anything about the successor to the M43?


----------



## tonkem

Not a successor, per se, but I hear that Emisar(also produced by the company that has created the M43) is going to be producing a D7 that is 7 LED and 3 x 18650, but that is all I know.


----------



## Agpp

tonkem said:


> Not a successor, per se, but I hear that Emisar(also produced by the company that has created the M43) is going to be producing a D7 that is 7 LED and 3 x 18650, but that is all I know.



Some time ago there were rumours about a successor. It was said to be shelved because the makers didn't manage to improve it enough to justify a new model.
D7 is not a successor to M43. Smaller, lower sustained output, probably similar peak output (here: on fresh battery only), shorter runtime. Probably similar beam shape, probably much cheaper.


----------



## Keitho

A couple years of use, and my M43's are still my favorite lights. I make excuses to use flashlights sometimes, but I make the most crazy excuses to fire up the M43. Like last night, my Nichia was about a foot closer to me than the light switch, so I used it to light the room for a couple hours. Or the other day, I procrastinated troubleshooting an circuit breaker until after sunset so I could use my M43. Or my favorite: two of my three bikes have M43 handlebar mounts...I often find reasons to "need" to ride them!

Just a solid light---size, efficiency, UI, looks, value. Nobody has equaled it yet, and I don't see it happening anytime soon.


----------



## richbuff

Keitho said:


> A couple years of use, and my M43's are still my favorite lights. I make excuses to use flashlights sometimes, but I make the most crazy excuses to fire up the M43. Like last night, the my Nichia was about a foot closer to me than the light switch, so I used it to light the room for a couple hours. Or the other day, I procrastinated troubleshooting an circuit breaker until after sunset so I could use my M43. Or my favorite: two of my three bikes have M43 handlebar mounts...I often find reasons to "need" to ride them!
> 
> Just a solid light---size, efficiency, UI, looks, value. Nobody has equaled it yet, and I don't see it happening anytime soon.


Nice post about this classic light. Size: Short and stubby, in a good way. Looks: The first flashlight to have its then unique looks. Original UI: Very special. There were several lengthy threads in the Russian flashlight forum about the development of the UI and the driver. I edced mine for a few months, until more powerful item was released. I still occasionally use my M43 to relive the happy times that I had when this light was announced and released and frequently used. This light will always occupy a lofty position in the pantheon of permanent classics.


----------



## ven

+1 Yes great post keitho, if any big hitter gets EDC'd its the m43vn. I can happily carry it in a coat pocket without any issue reg size/weight and enjoy crazy outputs, normally associated with much larger flashlights.


----------



## Keitho

I'm very sorry to see that, after some time at $98, the m43 is out of stock at both intl outdoors and mtn electronics. Both of mine get regular use despite the fact I have dozens of newer lights, and I'm sad to see that they're probably not being made anymore.


----------



## Toolboxkid

My switch started acting up and it doesn't look like replacement parts are available. Anyone have a spare switch? Or need parts off mine?


----------



## aginthelaw

Toolboxkid said:


> My switch started acting up and it doesn't look like replacement parts are available. Anyone have a spare switch? Or need parts off mine?



Did you check with mtnelectronics.com? They might be able to help


----------



## The_Driver

Toolboxkid said:


> My switch started acting up and it doesn't look like replacement parts are available. Anyone have a spare switch? Or need parts off mine?



They use the following switch: ALPS SKRBAAE010
You should be able to find it on Ebay, Mouser etc. You can use any switch that fit son the solder pads. It doesn't have to be this type of foil switch (not very robust...). I had the same problem. You can fix it, but it's not easy. You need to take apart the entire flashlight, remove the driver and then you can get to the switch. You need to be very good at smd soldering. 

Here are some pics of my broken switch after removing the button cover. You can see that the orange foil on top is missing.


----------



## MarvelouzV

Hi everyone, I'm new to this site and to collecting flashlights. My first purchase is Noctigon M43 in Stone White from eBay i received today. I was wondering if anyone has cleaned the threads and re-lubed them on this particular light? Which lubricant did you go with? TIA


----------



## aginthelaw

You shouldn’t have to lube the threads just the oring. I used no ox id.


----------



## MarvelouzV

aginthelaw said:


> You shouldn’t have to lube the threads just the oring. I used no ox id.



huh? Why not? The threads are completely dirty and black. I want to give them a good cleaning and relube them


----------



## aginthelaw

All of mine are black also. I wonder if it’s a character of the aluminum used. The only one that’s not black isn’t lubed


----------



## trailhunter

MarvelouzV said:


> Hi everyone, I'm new to this site and to collecting flashlights. My first purchase is Noctigon M43 in Stone White from eBay i received today. I was wondering if anyone has cleaned the threads and re-lubed them on this particular light? Which lubricant did you go with? TIA


I use this on threads and orings for all my lights, no problem so far and it's food grade


Food Grade O-ring Lubricant- Haynes,1oz Tube Sold by Kegconnection 
Haynes 
Link: http://a.co/d/1rVHaTu


----------



## trailhunter

I bought a used m43 from ebay as hardly used and it looks to be in great shape. I'm using 30q and this thing is just not as bright as everyone says. Is there something wrong with it, do I need to get into some mode for turbo vs high? I have a 3800 lumen d4s that outshines this 2 fold and I just feel that shouldn't be the case, thoughts?


----------



## AEDe

Hi !
There is extended instruction for M43 , but it in Russian.

Try 12 fast click and hold. If something wrong with turbo , light would blink 2 times.
If so at first you should disassemble tail cap . and clean contact between host and copper board. 
If it is not help try another battery.


----------



## twistedraven

Might be an intensity difference too. The M43 uses optics that aren't as throwy as that on the D4s, so the smaller but more intense hotspot can lead to the lesser output of the D4s looking brighter. My 219C D4S looks equally as bright or even brighter next to my ROT66 SST20, even though it's only 3000ish lumen as opposed to 5-6000ish, but that's because I'm only looking at the center of the hotspots.


----------



## trailhunter

AEDe said:


> Hi !
> There is extended instruction for M43 , but it in Russian.
> 
> Try 12 fast click and hold. If something wrong with turbo , light would blink 2 times.
> If so at first you should disassemble tail cap . and clean contact between host and copper board.
> If it is not help try another battery.


Yes, it blinks two times... something wrong with my meteor then? :*(


----------



## AEDe

Try to clean contact between copper board and aluminium host in tail cap with sandpaper or eraser. 95% that problem there. At the point of contact of different metals, corrosion usually occurs.


----------



## NPL

Took my Meteor 219c out last night for Halloween with my daughter. Was using the simple UI. Loved how the light fades up or down between different settings. Knurling on handle was super grippy, and the hold for momentary turbo was super convenient. Aside from UI, having 6000 lumens of neutral white high CRI light was spectacular. All the colorful maple leaves were lit up like paintings on the sidewalk. 

As for CCT, felt like it's a touch too cool at the lowest setting, and warmer on high/turbo. 

There are a lot of new lights being released these days, but I am thoroughly impressed with my Meteor and feel it will remain a very special light in my collection.


----------



## Keitho

Happy to see M43's back in stock, intl outdoors, "68 units" in stock as of a couple minutes ago. I just picked up another Nichia version that I...um...need...'cause I didn't have a grey one?


----------



## PocketLight88

I need one bad, thanks for the tip.

Pocketlight


----------



## NPL

Similar lights from Fenix sell for substantially more money, are larger, less refined and limited emiter options. The M43 is a steal for 98$!

I think if Hank keeps making it with latest LEDs, this light is timeless.


----------



## NPL

Anybody buy an m43 with SST20 high CRI options?


----------



## ma tumba

Actually, I think a great latest led candidate for m43 would be nichia optisolis. Regardless of what nichia says, each optisolis can run at 1amp


----------



## NPL

ma tumba said:


> Actually, I think a great latest led candidate for m43 would be nichia optisolis. Regardless of what nichia says, each optisolis can run at 1amp


How would you get it on the mcpcb? 
I would love a 4500k e21a as well.


----------



## The_Driver

In the turbo mode each LED gets 2A. The Optisolis wouldn't work, the E21A would be ok (but very close to its maximum when the light is warm).


----------



## plata0190

NPL said:


> Anybody buy an m43 with SST20 high CRI options?


Yeah I goten the SST20 in 3000K CCT/95CRI version. Its really bright, and also qualitys high as well. Id consider it a step higher than nichia 219BT-V1 in the quality, as beams less fogged causing less eye strain. Theres a tiny greenish tint, but considerably low where fits perfectly the other colors which composes the white. Just found that at low currents doesn offer a good CRI or at least the beams quality a bit low comparing to Osram oslon square and nichia 219BT-V1 both Hi CRI that I've owned. Increasing the current its a beast 

Beams reach is high, so its a bit narrow and suitable for distance llumination, less floody than XP-G2 S4 that I still prefer on my M43. :thumbsup:


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## NPL

Interesting that the quality of light degrades at lower current. Luckily when I use the Meteor it's usually because I want more light than what my topical size EDC can sustain. Do you think your SST20 3000k has more throw than your xpg2?


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## plata0190

NPL said:


> Interesting that the quality of light degrades at lower current. Luckily when I use the Meteor it's usually because I want more light than what my topical size EDC can sustain. Do you think your SST20 3000k has more throw than your xpg2?


yes sure, XP-G2 S4 D5 and SST20 J5 offer in order 7600lm and 5400l (ceiling bounce measure and other lights comparison). PBI is around 30K cd/m on first and 32K cd/m on second, so reachs a bit higher on SST20, despite XP-G2 throws about the same but offers a completly floody beam, very usefull when riding a bike in the woods at night.


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## NPL

Question for m43 owners, can someone please explain to me how 8A current on turbo yields 6600 lumens on the 219c?


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## Keitho

Beautifully. It takes quite awhile for it to gently ramp down as voltage drops. Most of the time, I don't run extended amounts of time on max current--just dropping the brightness a small amount in the "advanced" UI extends runtimes quite a bit.


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## The_Driver

NPL said:


> Question for m43 owners, can someone please explain to me how 8A current on turbo yields 6600 lumens on the 219c?



It's 7.5A per cell, 30A in total from all cells together.


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## NPL

The_Driver said:


> It's 7.5A per cell, 30A in total from all cells together.


The manual shows 8amps draw for turbo. (Does not specify battery)
If the LEDs are setup 4p3s, that's 2 amps per triple in series. 

I also thought that batteries are in parallel, and light will run on as few as 1 cell. Are you sure it pulls 7.5 amps per cell?


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## The_Driver

NPL said:


> The manual shows 8amps draw for turbo. (Does not specify battery)
> If the LEDs are setup 4p3s, that's 2 amps per triple in series.
> 
> I also thought that batteries are in parallel, and light will run on as few as 1 cell. Are you sure it pulls 7.5 amps per cell?



Yes the batteries are in parallel. In a parallel configuration the current is divided equally if you use identical batteries. It pulls 7.5A per cell according the the manual (this depends on the Vf of the used LEDs because it's a constant current driver, the new Nichia LEDs with a low Vf will reduce the current pulled from the battery). This means ~30A from all batteries together (or 30A form a single cell if you only put in one). 

The LEDs are indeed connected in 4P3S, it's a boost driver. 10.5V * 2A * 4 = 84W on the LED side with high-Vf LEDs (XP-G2). 
7.5A * 3.5V * 4 =105W on the battery side. So the driver has an efficiency of around 84W / 105W = 80%. That's a very realistic value, but not a very good one.


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## NPL

Thanks for the detailed explanation!


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## mmalive12

Anyone looking to unload the 8350 lumen version? OR any versions?


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## trailhunter

mmalive12 said:


> Anyone looking to unload the 8350 lumen version? OR any versions?


I have one that I don't even use


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## mmalive12

trailhunter said:


> I have one that I don't even use


Touch bases with me. Paypal ready.


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## archimedes

mmalive12 said:


> Anyone looking to unload the 8350 lumen version? OR any versions?





trailhunter said:


> I have one that I don't even use





mmalive12 said:


> Touch bases with me. Paypal ready.



Please keep marketplace requests in the marketplace, not cluttering up the discussion forums. Thanks.


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## trailhunter

Anyone have good experience with the m43? I have a used one I bought from Ebay. I was unimpressed with the light and didn't understand what the rave was about. I was honestly disappointed in the m43. I asked the Ebay seller if there was something wrong with it, of course... he said there were no issues under his ownership. So I bought another one, same led and same tint (nichia 219c 5k). Well, after comparing both old (black) vs new (grey), I'm noticing all the differences and they are night and day. Here are the issues using UI2 for reference:

1) M43 blinking led https://imgur.com/gallery/n31yShW

2) M43 ui2, doesn't cycle to turbo https://imgur.com/gallery/6tpmLz3

3) M43 ui2 from off to turbo, it blinks and doesn't look like full output https://imgur.com/gallery/U2zLwxy

Now... here is where things get interesting. I don't eliminate the blinking button, however, if I swap the base of the new m43 to the old m43 head, I fix the problems I've been seeing since I bought it

Old m43 head with new m43 body, issues gone (i can finally go into turbo mode alas!) 
https://imgur.com/gallery/mQ9pIVn

New m43 head now suffers symptoms using the old m43 body https://imgur.com/gallery/xaWnisG


What should I look for on the old body that's causing power issues? I've cleaned the bare aluminum on the body at the threading and cleaned the head contact. What is causing my old m43 button to blink?


Any feedback is appreciated.


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## trailhunter

trailhunter said:


> Anyone have good experience with the m43? I have a used one I bought from Ebay. I was unimpressed with the light and didn't understand what the rave was about. I was honestly disappointed in the m43. I asked the Ebay seller if there was something wrong with it, of course... he said there were no issues under his ownership. So I bought another one, same led and same tint (nichia 219c 5k). Well, after comparing both old (black) vs new (grey), I'm noticing all the differences and they are night and day. Here are the issues using UI2 for reference:
> 
> 1) M43 blinking led https://imgur.com/gallery/n31yShW
> 
> 2) M43 ui2, doesn't cycle to turbo https://imgur.com/gallery/6tpmLz3
> 
> 3) M43 ui2 from off to turbo, it blinks and doesn't look like full output https://imgur.com/gallery/U2zLwxy
> 
> Now... here is where things get interesting. I don't eliminate the blinking button, however, if I swap the base of the new m43 to the old m43 head, I fix the problems I've been seeing since I bought it
> 
> Old m43 head with new m43 body, issues gone (i can finally go into turbo mode alas!)
> https://imgur.com/gallery/mQ9pIVn
> 
> New m43 head now suffers symptoms using the old m43 body https://imgur.com/gallery/xaWnisG
> 
> 
> What should I look for on the old body that's causing power issues? I've cleaned the bare aluminum on the body at the threading and cleaned the head contact. What is causing my old m43 button to blink?
> 
> 
> Any feedback is appreciated.


I think I fixed it. The pcb board was loose at the bottom of the base. There's 2 issues remaining, the LED blinks twice when in medium or turbo and not sure how to fix the blinking button.


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## ven

Maybe check the 4 springs in the body, one or more could be squashed or not making contact properly.


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## trailhunter

Here is an example of the old M43 head blinking https://imgur.com/a/shxpyb3


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## trailhunter

Ok... so button blinking is just an option so revolved. 

I guess all I need help with is to understand why the light blinks when I transition between modes.


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## NPL

Looking to find an M43 in Black and or Tan color of anybody has one they are willing to sell. Thanks! 

Sent from my Pixel using Candlepowerforums mobile app


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## trailhunter

NPL said:


> Looking to find an M43 in Black and or Tan color of anybody has one they are willing to sell. Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Candlepowerforums mobile app


I have one, feel free to PM me

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## NPL

Pm sent

Sent from my Pixel using Candlepowerforums mobile app


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## NPL

Still looking. The one above was a mixed color body. Very nice, but looking for all black or all tan. Thanks

Sent from my Pixel using Candlepowerforums mobile app


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