# Best 18650 battery question



## golphinn (Jul 7, 2014)

Hello all,

I just purchased a new bicycle light from Fenix (BC30). The light uses 2 18650 batteries and I was wondering what everybody would suggest as the best battery to use? I use an electronic cigarette and for that I use AW IMR 18650 1600 mah. The charger that I use is an XTRA VP1. I would imagine that the charger would be fine for charging my flashlight batteries also. Am I correct in thinking this? Thank you for any help that you can offer.

Tom


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## vicv (Jul 7, 2014)

Welcome to cpf. Google search is your friend. To answer one question yes your charger is fine. Batteries any brand that doesn't end in fire will be fine


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## golphinn (Jul 7, 2014)

vicv said:


> Welcome to cpf. Google search is your friend. To answer one question yes your charger is fine. Batteries any brand that doesn't end in fire will be fine



Tried Google, thanks for suggesting though :thumbsup:. Could anybody else offer some battery suggestions? Which brand and where everybody buys their batteries from? Thanks.


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## Shiftyk5 (Jul 7, 2014)

Panasonic NCR18650B protected button top 3400 mAh

mtnelectronics would be my first choice to buy from

eagletac 18650 3400 mAh is another great choice

take a look at HKJ's reviews in this sub forum he has a great comparator


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## UnderPar (Jul 7, 2014)

I've been using the Panasonic 18650B, 3400 mAh since last year and its been working flawlessly. I top it everytime the voltage goes down between 3.7 to 3.9 volts and its its very good to go again. I second to Shiftyk5 recommendation for you to take time to read the battery reviews of HKJ and start from there. You will enhance your knowledge about batteries and what you will need for your new light. Good luck and :welcome:


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## thedoc007 (Jul 7, 2014)

I'd suggest the SoShine 3400mAh. These are shorter than the Panasonics, thus more compatible with a variety of lights. And they are among the cheapest protected cells available. Illumination Supply is my go-to source. With coupon code, you can get them for about $8.50 each.


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## Scarface26 (Jul 8, 2014)

I would make sure that your choice be a "protected" battery which has a chip to prevent overcharging and over draining. In addition to the previous recommendations, I would add Olight/ Fenix/ AW/ Keepower/ & Nitecore to the list of quality Battery brands. There may be others also. 3100 to 3400 MAh are good. You can save a few bucks by choosing lower MAh batteries too.


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## golphinn (Jul 8, 2014)

I really appreciate all of the suggestions. Thanks!


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## Casey Guo (Jul 10, 2014)

for flashlight you 'd better to choose the high capacity battery With PCB protection , so Panasonic NCR 3400mAh battery is a good choose .


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## golphinn (Jul 11, 2014)

I ended up buying 4 SoShine 3400mAh and also grabbed a XTAR VP2 charger to replace my VP1 which was giving me problems.


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## IgglePiggle (Aug 14, 2014)

From Googling battery reviews it seems a lot of the protected 18650 are rebranded Panasonic. Why are the rebranded double the price, is the protection circuit better?


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 14, 2014)

IgglePiggle said:


> From Googling battery reviews it seems a lot of the protected 18650 are rebranded Panasonic. Why are the rebranded double the price, is the protection circuit better?



Everybody's gotta make a buck and if you're selling in smaller volumes, you're not going to make much for your efforts going the McDonald's path of 'pennies made on a billion sold.'

I run the cheaper naked cells in my single cell lights and pay $6-$10 for some of the better ones.

We're starting to see more protected cells from LG, Sanyo, Samsung and Sony, but Panasonic is still the big dog in the yard.

Chris


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## pilou (Aug 14, 2014)

Shiftyk5 said:


> Panasonic NCR18650B protected button top 3400 mAh
> 
> mtnelectronics would be my first choice to buy from


Do you have direct experience with their protected Panasonics? Has anyone done some test to check actual capacities? I have seen data for a bunch of 18650, but not any from mtnelectronics.


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## richardcpf (Aug 15, 2014)

pilou said:


> Do you have direct experience with their protected Panasonics? Has anyone done some test to check actual capacities? I have seen data for a bunch of 18650, but not any from mtnelectronics.



Genuine Panasonic NCR18650B cells have the same capacity disregarding which company or seller installs the protection circuit. These cell are tested to match their advertised capacity, about 3200mAh @1A draw. Which practically makes it the highest capacity 4.20V 18650 battery in the market.

MTNelectronics is a very respectable seller, I had several orders with them without any issue.


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## awyeah (Sep 7, 2014)

*What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*

So I'm looking to stock up on a few more 18650s. 

My only hard requirement for them is that they're made in Japan and protected. I prefer Panasonics (I don't have any desire to burn my house down)...

Anyway, the last time I bought them, I bought a few 3100mAh EagleTacs (with the red label), because those looked to me like the best dollars-to-mAh value at that time.

What's everyone buying these days?


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## troisanh (Sep 7, 2014)

*Re: What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*

Other info would help others for reccomendations; ie location and budget.


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## awyeah (Sep 7, 2014)

*Re: What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*

Good idea. Location is US. For budget... since these things aren't going to cost hundreds of dollars, we'll just say unlimited. Also, forgot to mention, button top.


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## thedoc007 (Sep 7, 2014)

*Re: What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*



awyeah said:


> My only hard requirement for them is that they're made in Japan and protected. I prefer Panasonics (I don't have any desire to burn my house down)...



Do you want both the protection circuit and cell to be made in Japan? You won't find the best value there, of that you can be sure. If the bare cell is of good quality, I'm not too worried about the protection circuit...it is only there for backup anyway, I usually charge cells well before the cutoff is reached. I have over 30 18650s, so that difference of a few dollars really adds up.

My personal preference is SoShine 3400, or Keeppower 3400 - they are both button top cells. Keeppowers have a bit lower internal resistance, and protection allows for somewhat higher current before it cuts out, but they are more expensive (around $12 each). SoShines are just fine for most uses, a little bit shorter (meaning better compatibility with a variety of lights), and the cheapest branded cells I have found...only about $8.50 each. They both use Panasonic cells.


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## magellan (Sep 7, 2014)

*Re: What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*

I bought a couple of the Voidhawks. They're more expensive than just about anything else out there, but what the hell, I figured I'd buy two and see if they live up to the hype. So far so good, I use them in my Soshine 2x18650 power bank which gets constant use keeping my iPhone and iPod Touch charged up on the fly as well as being used to charge the AA batteries used in a Goal Zero Guide 10 Plus charger/power bank. I can't say for sure if they're worth all the extra money, but I have no complaints about the overall quality so far.


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## thedoc007 (Sep 7, 2014)

*Re: What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*



magellan said:


> I bought a couple of the Voidhawks. They're more expensive than just about anything else out there, but what the hell, I figured I'd buy two and see if they live up to the hype. So far so good, I use them in my Soshine 2x18650 power bank which gets constant use keeping my iPhone and iPod Touch charged up on the fly as well as being used to charge the AA batteries used in a Goal Zero Guide 10 Plus charger/power bank. I can't say for sure if they're worth all the extra money, but I have no complaints about the overall quality so far.



Ouch, tell me you didn't pay $40 for a couple 2600 mAh cells. That is just a rip-off, plain and simple. You could get four high-quality 3400 mAh cells for the same price...and they would give you over 2.5 times the capacity.

Edit: I see they also sell the 3400 mAh cells. $25 each. Still far too expensive, given that they probably use the same cell as other brands that charge $10. But a better deal than the 2600 mAh cells.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 7, 2014)

*Re: What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*

A question would be if you are looking for a higher capacity lower amp draw or a higher amp draw and lower capacity. There are some great offerings in LiCo, hybrid and IMR cells right now. eFest has been producing some great IMR cells in their newer purple line.

Check out HKJs comparator here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html for a great comparison of many cells he's tested.


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## awyeah (Sep 7, 2014)

*Re: What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*



ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> A question would be if you are looking for a higher capacity lower amp draw or a higher amp draw and lower capacity. There are some great offerings in LiCo, hybrid and IMR cells right now. eFest has been producing some great IMR cells in their newer purple line.
> 
> Check out HKJs comparator here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html for a great comparison of many cells he's tested.



I tend to use stock lights - ArmyTek, EagleTac, etc. I *think* all of mine are ICR - because those are the ones that are protected? I might be wrong on that. These are the cells I have now (although they have newer white labels on them): http://www.eagletac.com/html/accessories/features/et18650_3100mah.html


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 7, 2014)

*Re: What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*

I've been really happy with a set of Keeppower 3400 Panasonic based cells I've been using. They should be worth a check out.


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## ven (Sep 8, 2014)

*Re: What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*

I have been using KeePower(pany inside) and efest cells recently,find great performance and well priced too




KP IMR next to a 3100 protected




Had fun trying to get them over seas,now i am sure they are sent by ground/sea so i try and order local,my case the UK and although more expensive its not as bad as i thought


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## markr6 (Sep 11, 2014)

Shiftyk5 said:


> Panasonic NCR18650B protected button top 3400 mAh
> 
> mtnelectronics would be my first choice to buy from



Just purchased a set of unprotected button tops from mountain electronics - my first order from them. Good price and fast shipping only being a few states away! I like the ones from fasttech but they are out of stock often and obviously much slower to deliver.

The tops are a little different than the ones I currently have, so being a little OCD that could bother me not "matching"


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## ven (Sep 11, 2014)

golphinn said:


> I ended up buying 4 SoShine 3400mAh and also grabbed a XTAR VP2 charger to replace my VP1 which was giving me problems.



I got my vp1 after my vp2 :laughing: but as a companion to charge up to 4 cells and at 1a at same time. If i want the 3.8(4.35) option i just use the vp2.


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## subwoofer (Sep 11, 2014)

Shiftyk5 said:


> Panasonic NCR18650B protected button top 3400 mAh
> 
> mtnelectronics would be my first choice to buy from
> 
> ...



Fenix recommend flat top cells for the BC30.



golphinn said:


> I ended up buying 4 SoShine 3400mAh and also grabbed a XTAR VP2 charger to replace my VP1 which was giving me problems.



Let us know how you get on. The BC30 cell holder is quite tight, so cell length will make a difference.


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## Sirob (Sep 16, 2014)

*What battery to use?*

I have bought a flashlight with the specifications.
"Working Voltage 3.6 ~ 4.2 V" that is not so hard to understand, that the voltage should be inside those specifications.
"Circuitry 3000 mA" Can I not have a battery with a higher mA than that?
Because on ebay, you can find 18650 batteries with significantly higher mA but if it is harmful to the flashlight then I will not use one.


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## ven (Sep 16, 2014)

*Re: What battery to use?*

Hi there,the mah is not harmful as this is your run time basically BUT the exaggerated claims of the ****fire cells can be bad.

Pany cells are the best or up there,3100/3400 and if lucky to get 3600mah is the highest available. In truth the 3100 or 3400 will suit your needs.

In short any higher its lies and more likely 1500mah if lucky,respected seller/shop is the answer,if very cheap its for a reason.
:welcome:


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## ven (Sep 16, 2014)

*Re: What battery to use?*

Bare in mind depending on what light it is protected cells (usually around 69mm) may not fit where as unprotected(just over 66mm) will fit.Is it button or flat top required,also a decent charger to,this stops over charging the cell once its charged.Brands like xtar and nitecore do well priced chargers to suit,no need to spend$$$ on a charger when $20 cover most

Have a little read up on the safety side on here if unsure,but just dont leave intended when charging.................avoid left alone overnight for example.


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## cland72 (Sep 16, 2014)

*Re: What battery to use?*

3000 mA refers to the maximum amperage the flashlight might pull on high mode, meaning you need a battery capable of delivery a sustained 3A current. Any quality 18650 cell can do this without a problem. I would suggest looking for a Panasonic 18650 with PCB protection. Make sure you get cells made in Japan.


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## Chewiekw (Sep 16, 2014)

*Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected*

Hello 
I am looking to stock up on 18650 batteries and wanted to know what brand is the one most of you prefer. Right now I have nitecore but they are expensive. I also have some ultrafire. 

I have seen panasonic, thrunite brands out there. What are the best for performance and price. 
Thanks again


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## kj2 (Sep 17, 2014)

*Re: Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected*

Check out the battery section. There are numerous threads about this.


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## ChrisGarrett (Sep 17, 2014)

*Re: Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected*



Chewiekw said:


> Hello
> I am looking to stock up on 18650 batteries and wanted to know what brand is the one most of you prefer. Right now I have nitecore but they are expensive. I also have some ultrafire.
> 
> I have seen panasonic, thrunite brands out there. What are the best for performance and price.
> Thanks again



I'm running naked cells in my single cell lights and checking things frequently, which is important if you 'fly naked' like I do.

LG D1 3000mAh, LG E1 3200mAh, Samsung 25R 2500mAh, Panasonic NCR18650A 3100mAh and some Sanyo 2600mAh cells are in constant rotation.

All of them can be had for under $8-$9 if you look around and buy from a reputable dealer. Some dealers are adding button tops, if you need them and even doing some of those with protection circuits, for a few bucks more.

Chris


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## Chewiekw (Sep 17, 2014)

*Re: Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected*

Should you store 18650 batteries fully charged? Also when they say do not discharge below 2.5v under load, what are they referring too? Sorry for the newbie questions but i want to make sure i am handling these correctly and know as much as possible.


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## ven (Sep 17, 2014)

*Re: Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected*

Around 3.6v is 40% charged so ideally between 3.6 and 4.2v are best for cell/performance wise for running your light. 2.5 is max discharge,beyond could damage cell long term if happens regular. Lots of lights will warm via flashes or loss of modes,maybe shut off before this point be it 3.0v or 3.3v (example).

Storing cells at 4.2v for 2 months is fine,long term then better stored around 3.6v-3.7v.


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## Conte (Sep 17, 2014)

How long will you be storing them?

And the second question is pretty self explanatory.

Lion' batteries can get damaged or violent if you over discharge them. So don't run them down under 2.5v. Make 3v for good measure as difficult batteries have different specs but 3v works for all lions. 

Under load means while the are in use.
The voltage Drops while you are sucking power out of them, then jumps back up again when you turn the light off.

While you are running your light, you don't want the voltage to drop under said voltage, 2.5 to 2.75v. 

You can't really test this without the tools and knowhow, but any protected battery will automatically cut off at the correct point. Most good led lights will also have voltage detection built in and turn off or dim at the right point.

Invest in a multi meter so you can measure voltage and you'll get a feel for it.

Otherwise, if your running unprotected cells, just don't rum them down and wait till they are dead to recharge.


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## ChrisGarrett (Sep 17, 2014)

Anecdotally, if I'll not be using my cells for 3 months at a stretch, or longer, they get discharged like others have intimated, to ~3.6v-3.7v and then they go into plastic cases and then into a Ziplock baggie, where I'll note the date on the bag with a Sharpie.

As to discharge voltage levels, I think it's Panasonic that uses 2.50v for most of their cobalt cells and Sony, Samsung, LG and Sanyo were at 2.75v, but that's changing with some of these newer 'high drain, high current' chemistries, so check with your particular model of cell.

I try not to go down below 3.5v on any of my various chemistries, but have done so here and there. The key then, is to charge them back up quickly and don't let them sit for weeks or months.

Chris


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## pipes (Sep 21, 2014)

Here is a question for ya. In going through the test charts, I mean, it seems efest, keepower, and lg aren't a bad battery and are comparable to other high performers like the Panasonic. I haven't seen much mention of them however. Ive been trying to research batteries for the last week or so, and its kind of a lot to take in lol. Why are the Panasonics seemingly the first choice, it would appear they are hands down the favorite here?


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## thedoc007 (Sep 21, 2014)

pipes said:


> Here is a question for ya. In going through the test charts, I mean, it seems efest, keepower, and lg aren't a bad battery and are comparable to other high performers like the Panasonic. I haven't seen much mention of them however. Ive been trying to research batteries for the last week or so, and its kind of a lot to take in lol. Why are the Panasonics seemingly the first choice, it would appear they are hands down the favorite here?



MANY companies just re-brand Panasonics (put a new wrapper on them, and maybe a protection circuit). In your own question, for example, Keeppower actually uses Panasonic cells. So does Thrunite, Callie's Kustoms, Orbtronic, SoShine, Olight, Nitecore, some Fenix cells, some AW cells, Brillipower, Eagletac, Intl-Outdoor, and Xtar. This is by no means a complete list...but you are getting the idea. Panasonic has the highest volume, it has the highest capacity cells, and it is probably spending the most money on research and development. So it isn't very surprising that they are generally recommended. 

For certain applications, you might find other cells that are equivalent, or even better, than the Panasonics. Right now, for example, for high-drain cells, Sony VTC5 and Efest 35A 18650s are king. The LG D1/E1 are 4.35 volt cells that hold a higher voltage for longer than just about any other, if that is your criteria. But Panasonic has the highest capacity, which for most people, is either the first or the only thing they know to look for. If you have a specific question, about a certain light (or even better, a specific current that you need a cell to supply) there are a few people that can help with it. But if you ask for a general recommendation, it is hard to go wrong with Panasonic cells. They are high quality, and serve well enough for most people.


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## ChrisGarrett (Sep 21, 2014)

Right now, at least on the E-cig 'sub-ohm' forums, I'm reading that those nutters are having good luck with the Samsung 25Rs and the LG HE2s for really hard use. The Sony VTC5s are starting to get a bit tarnished, lol.

Chris


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## pipes (Sep 21, 2014)

Since Im pretty new to this interestingly deep subject of flashlights and batteries, I have decided to go with a protected cell. Im about to buy my third light, the nitecore p25, and Im pretty sure my 4th will be an olight m3x triton


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## CyclingSalmon14 (Sep 21, 2014)

subwoofer said:


> Fenix recommend flat top cells for the BC30.Let us know how you get on. The BC30 cell holder is quite tight, so cell length will make a difference.


LOL, I use button top 3400 Olight's, bit tight to remove but seems ok, just have to be carefull, they fit and going without any effort though so not to big, but yes I can see how flat tops might be better here ahahaha, never even knew falts were recomended.


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## SubLGT (Sep 21, 2014)

*Re: Best 18650 lithium ion batteries--protected*



Chewiekw said:


> Hello
> I am looking to stock up on 18650 batteries and wanted to know what brand is the one most of you prefer. Right now I have nitecore but they are expensive. I also have some ultrafire.
> 
> I have seen panasonic, thrunite brands out there. What are the best for performance and price.
> Thanks again



For a high quality protected 18650 3400mAh battery, I like the Keeppower, Orbtronics, and AW. I spent some time playing with the battery comparison tool HKJ has at his website, and those 3 brands are what stood out to me. The Keeppower is the best buy in the bunch, around $14 each at illumn.com.


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## Conte (Sep 22, 2014)

Those are probably all re wrapped panasonics. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think panasonic is the only one making a 3400 right now. Any 3400 battery is most likely a re wrapped panasonic.


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## pocketchange (Sep 26, 2014)

Greetings ALL, 
I've read Panasonic picked up (bought) Sanyo for their battery expertise. 
Any info available on this?
I got's to know, pc


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## thedoc007 (Sep 26, 2014)

pocketchange said:


> I've read Panasonic picked up (bought) Sanyo for their battery expertise.
> Any info available on this?



I don't know any details to speak of, but yes, that is true. I found out when I was looking for Eneloops, and found a bunch of Panasonics. They now own the Eneloop name, so they have both the highest capacity 18650s, and the best NiMH cells.


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## pipes (Sep 27, 2014)

Whereabouts do you buy your 18650's? Besides amazon?


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## thedoc007 (Sep 27, 2014)

pipes said:


> Whereabouts do you buy your 18650's? Besides amazon?



Illumination Supply and Mountain Electronics are my go-to stores. I've placed several orders at each site, and haven't had a problem. Amazon is a last resort, 18650s are generally more expensive there, and you don't have nearly as many options.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 27, 2014)

thedoc007 said:


> Illumination Supply and Mountain Electronics are my go-to stores. I've placed several orders at each site, and haven't had a problem. Amazon is a last resort, 18650s are generally more expensive there, and you don't have nearly as many options.



+1 on this!

Both places have better prices for any stocked cell than I have ever found on Amazon too, even with Prime shipping.


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## pipes (Sep 27, 2014)

Thanks, I appreciate it.


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## pipes (Sep 27, 2014)

Hey, all flat top unprotected lol. Ill check Mountain


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## rsilvers (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: What battery to use?*

For my flashlights, I don't really care if a battery cost $5 or $8 or $1. It is all about the same. But I want to build a battery pack for an electric bike and need 65 18650s. 

I see I can buy cells for $1 each or Panasonic for $5 each. If you had to buy 65 cells and capacity, reliability, charge cycles, and discharge rate all mattered - which cells would you go with knowing that the price adds up massively when you need 65 of them.


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## ven (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: What battery to use?*

IMHO rsilvers,for capacity,reliability and charge cycles then the only option would be a good brand of cell. Panasonic are certainly one,maybe find sanyo or samsung for cheaper still. Not sure what brand(probably none) the $1 cells are,but i sure would not have confidence in them,more so using 65 for them and being reliant on.


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## rsilvers (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: What battery to use?*

Also it seems like when you use multiple cells, you must use protected cells.

Panasonic NCR18650B may be the way to go.

Seems like the best possible price for them is $6.50 each.


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## chuckhov (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: What battery to use?*

No - What you want is unprotected, and then add a BMS (Battery Management System).

I would like to build a 14S/9P pack for my bike (126 cells), and the only reason that I have not yet begun, is the cost of good cells.

I would not even dream of setting myself up for the disappointment that $1 cells can provide.

Here is a good site that you may like:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=70642385ebe2141d96365ea508c1f9cf

Thanks,
-Chuck


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## rsilvers (Aug 8, 2015)

*Re: What battery to use?*

I didn't research BMS yet, but my guess was that each parallel bank would use a BMS but each row in series would want protected cells. Or does the BMS see each and every cell?

I will look into that. Here are some protected cells I found:

$3.25 each http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LC92V8C/?tag=cpf0b6-20
Someone claims to have tested these at 2100 each. Someone else said 2200 each. So it may be true. That is $1.55 per Ah.


$4.99 each http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0112LEW3G/?tag=cpf0b6-20
Someone claimed these test at 2500. That is $2 per Ah.

$5.66 each http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0112EV41G/?tag=cpf0b6-20
Claim these are really 2500. That is $2.27 per Ah.

$8 each http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O8U187W/?tag=cpf0b6-20
Someone claimed these tested at 2600. That is $3.08 per Ah. Probably not worth it.

As for the NCR18650Bs - I only looked at ones that were under $8 each, and all of them said "For Panasonic." That seems like weasel words for "These are fake."

If I end up wanting protected, then I may order 2-3 of these and test them and then get more. If I end up wanting non-protected, I see lots of Samsungs listed that I need to look into.


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## rsilvers (Aug 9, 2015)

*Re: What battery to use?*

I see that LunaCycle has unprotected LG and Samsung for $4.05 each. Best deal I found so far on something known to be good.


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## ven (Aug 9, 2015)

*Re: What battery to use?*

Have a look at Samsung 26F, 2600MAH so not highest mah but acceptable and a good brand. Also if using so many i dont think it will make it over critical and re-charge times will be quicker.

Good cheap cells,look to importing(make sure check out seller and shop properly ),places like aliexpress will have 100+ at a time . Again double check reviews and seller first,but it will be one of the cheapest options of buying so many cells in one hit. Its more than likely what sellers be it US or UK do anyway.........Your missing out the middleman but do increase the risk.

Prepare for a long delivery time as chances it could come by sea and not air.........maybe 4-5 weeks(dont know). But maybe questions to ask if you choose that way

Good luck


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## SubLGT (Aug 23, 2015)

*Re: What battery to use?*

Here is an interesting read about various Li-ion batteries. I have no idea about the accuracy of the author's assertions:
https://mindofmorandir.wordpress.com/2015/04/16/a-beginners-guide-to-lithium-batteries-rev-3/

A short excerpt:

"...AW- In terms of cells these are the highest quality available. Andrew Wang used to work for Panasonic, developed his own company, and is the top provider of cells to flashlight users (and of course now vapers). He gets the top 5%*7 of cells from Panasonic, Sanyo, etc. and puts his custom PCB on ICR cells. Cells routinely last 500 charges or more if handled properly.

Efest- Top 10% of cells from the same manufacturers as AW, though also gets cells from LG (top 15%) and Sony (top 15%). These do not last as long as as AW, but perform as well over the first 150 charges. Usually last 250-300 charges*8. As with the recent trend, another knock on Efest is their over stating of their amp limits on a lot of their high drain batteries.

LG- Top 10% of cells are sold as bare cells to consumers. The top 5% are reserved only for cars, phones, laptops. They have improved their cell quality and chemistry over time. Would put them one notch below AW, but right up there with the other big battery manufacturers…"


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## HKJ (Aug 23, 2015)

*Re: What battery to use?*



SubLGT said:


> Here is an interesting read about various Li-ion batteries. I have no idea about the accuracy of the author's assertions:



They are not all accurate, but I will not specify what is accurate or not (I can only verify/refuse a few of the claims, the rest I do not know enough about).


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## recDNA (Aug 23, 2015)

Makes it tough to choose which 16650. I always leaned toward keeppower over efest.


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## HKJ (Aug 23, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Makes it tough to choose which 16650. I always leaned toward keeppower over efest.



Keeppower usual uses brand name cells, efest do not always do that.

One of the statements that I wonder about is lifetime. You can easily test a new battery for capacity, but how do you test it for lifetime and how much difference is there in lifetime on batteries produces with the same chemicals?


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## recDNA (Aug 23, 2015)

My pet peeve is that some batteries are now called imr that are actually hybrid. I buy imr for safer chemistry. It may only be users using the wrong term but I recently saw a 18660 3000mah called "imr" and I checked with the manufacturer and it is hybrid. I haven't seen the actual ads.


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## sidecross (Aug 25, 2015)

I have used Eagletac 18650 3100 mAh and Eagletac 3400 mAh but I now use Keeppower in both those power ranges; I understand that other brands use the Keeppower made battery. I find the price for Keeppower to be an advantage. My battery knowledge needs improvement, but I feel satisfied with my current choice.


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## markr6 (Aug 25, 2015)

Plain *NCR18650GA *or *LG 18650MJ1 *both around $9/ea at Mtn Electronics. Take you pick I guess, until HKJ tests both and tells me otherwise. For now, I bet they are very similar.


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## sidecross (Aug 25, 2015)

markr6 said:


> Plain *NCR18650GA *or *LG 18650MJ1 *both around $9/ea at Mtn Electronics. Take you pick I guess, until HKJ tests both and tells me otherwise. For now, I bet they are very similar.




I bought today six 18650 KeepPower 3400mAh Panasonic NCR18650B Protected Button Top for $10.99 each at Illumn Supply in Jan Jose, CA USA.


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## markr6 (Aug 26, 2015)

sidecross said:


> I bought today six 18650 KeepPower 3400mAh Panasonic NCR18650B Protected Button Top for $10.99 each at Illumn Supply in Jan Jose, CA USA.



I like the Keeppower too the IMR 3200 and 3500 are some of the best. I just stopped buying them since they're now only using one exclusive supplier going forward (I'm guessing Illumn), and they only seem to be protected cells, which I don't buy. Hell of a deal though.


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## sidecross (Aug 26, 2015)

markr6 said:


> I like the Keeppower too the IMR 3200 and 3500 are some of the best. I just stopped buying them since they're now only using one exclusive supplier going forward (I'm guessing Illumn), and they only seem to be protected cells, which I don't buy. Hell of a deal though.




My first Keeppower 18650's were 3200 mAh that were bought from a Asian supplier on E-Bay about 3-5 years ago on the advise and report by HKJ on this forum. You are quite right about Keeppower moving to more convetional marketing.


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## markr6 (Aug 26, 2015)

sidecross said:


> My first Keeppower 18650's were 3200 mAh that were bought from a Asian supplier on E-Bay about 3-5 years ago on the advise and report by HKJ on this forum. You are quite right about Keeppower moving to more convetional marketing.



I'm running 3 of those 3200s in my MX25L3C Nichia. Nice setup!


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## tripplec (Aug 27, 2015)

Any recommendation where to order from for Canadian's? My last Li-Ion 18650 order took 3 months from Fasttech!!! Absurd turn around and I would like options much faster. Price of course is an issue so I don't want to pay 3x $. Target size of 18650 is about 3000 mAH or higher. I might try some small AAA equiv cells for a penlight which not longer fires with the Eneloop voltage but does with >2.0VDC. odd but something changed in that circuit.


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## WarRaven (Aug 27, 2015)

Myself have some from GB, flat rate shipping, 3-5 weeks. 
Best I can get them to myself in Edmonton.

Edit unless I want to pay a Canadian dealer $25 a pop.
No offence but pass thanks.


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## tripplec (Aug 27, 2015)

GB eh, via which store. Yeah local Canadian source milk us for these cells. I haven't order any from any eBay source due to may crappy cells.


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## markr6 (Aug 27, 2015)

tripplec said:


> GB eh, via which store. Yeah local Canadian source milk us for these cells. I haven't order any from any eBay source due to may crappy cells.



I have yet to get any from ebay. IF I had to go there for some reason, I might try seller "genuinecells". Approaching 9500 reviews with a 99.8% positive rating.


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## Strintguy (Aug 27, 2015)

Can I trust the Keeppower cells to be genuine from Chinese online stores (gear best, bang good, etc?)


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## MAD777 (Aug 27, 2015)

I'm using Keeppower and very satisfied. I have both protected 18650 3500mAh and unprotected IMR18650 3200mAh. 

Also, I buy from "genuinecells" at auction with great results.


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## akhyar (Aug 27, 2015)

I've been using mainly AW protected 18650 for the past few years and have been happy with their performance, but not their prices. But they are getting harder to find nowadays or seem almost out of stock at my local flashlight shop.
Recently purchased some unprotected Keeppower IMR18650 3200mAh from Gearbest and hopefully will receive the real deal.


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## tripplec (Aug 27, 2015)

Only 4 items in their store!!! LOL chargers mostly a few batteries with chargers. Double LOL


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## markr6 (Aug 27, 2015)

tripplec said:


> Only 4 items in their store!!! LOL chargers mostly a few batteries with chargers. Double LOL



Does AW have a store or is this a reseller?


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## WarRaven (Aug 27, 2015)

He gave me a link to a vaper, hard to find info, gave up.
My search-fu failed an I did not pursue further. 

So GearBest is where I'm getting now, can get cheapies at princess auto, but yeah, low cap and huge lengths.


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## Octavian (Feb 12, 2016)

In my 1x18650 flashlights I use most of the time Panasonic NCR18650B 3400 mAh (protected) and Efest IMR purple button top 3100 mAh.
As from my observations, Panasonic don't have a better marginal capacity. Efest can handle a lot better 2,5-3 Amp discharge (when I run on full power single 18650 XM-L flashlights) , it has a higher voltage to high currents, and is half a price of Panasonic.

The only thing which remain to see (beside the fact that Panasonic is protected), is the lifetime in next 1...2...3 years. After 1 year I must give a big plus to Efest IMR 3100 mAh, a very good cell for the price I paid. 

PS: also I run my Acebeam K60 with Efest purple IMR 3100 mAh, good runtime, constant power till end.


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## dan221081 (Feb 26, 2016)

*Re: What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*

Ven,

Can I ask where you got those cells from ? I have just ordered the same torch but I am struggling to find good places to order some 18650s from in the UK. I also note that you have non-button type batteries and I was about to order some with the buttons as the documentation that I have seen says it needs protection based button 18650 cells.

Is the documentation I have been shown incorrect ?

Thanks

Dan


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## eh4 (Feb 28, 2016)

*Re: What battery to use?*

I'm not an expert on anything, I strive to be an informed consumer with matters like this, and CPF is invaluable for helping me strike good valence between cost and quality. 
What I'm always looking for is fair value for cost. 
I'd love to know of a battery that was as high spec as say an Orbtronic 18650 protected 34 00 mA for 8$ instead of 15$; but for me, knowing that it was a solid value, if not the optimal value that someone with more expertise could find, and knowing that I only needed four and would likely care for and use them for several years before upgrading, it was worth it to me to blow 60$ on 4 quality, protected, high cap batteries that I had faith in. 
Fair price and good value is all I ask.


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## ven (Feb 29, 2016)

*Re: What's the "best buy" in 18650s these days?*



dan221081 said:


> Ven,
> 
> Can I ask where you got those cells from ? I have just ordered the same torch but I am struggling to find good places to order some 18650s from in the UK. I also note that you have non-button type batteries and I was about to order some with the buttons as the documentation that I have seen says it needs protection based button 18650 cells.
> 
> ...




Hi Dan, in the uk I use Ecolux shop on eBay .


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## JuRuKi (Feb 29, 2016)

After a lot of research i decided to go with LG MJ1's. Im happy with my purchase


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## GShocked (Mar 6, 2016)

Anyone have some opinions on these? thinking of buying...

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-...05.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.261.oGBQZi


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## SilverFox (Mar 6, 2016)

Hello GShocked,

I would suggest you avoid those cells.

Tom


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## akhyar (Mar 6, 2016)

GShocked said:


> Anyone have some opinions on these? thinking of buying...



Avoid them like a plague!


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Mar 7, 2016)

Anything rated higher than 3400-3600mAh is suspect and should be avoided.


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## teacher (Mar 11, 2016)

GShocked said:


> Anyone have some opinions on these? thinking of buying...
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-...05.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.261.oGBQZi





SilverFox said:


> Hello GShocked,
> I would suggest you avoid those cells.
> Tom





akhyar said:


> Avoid them like a plague!


Amen... don't waste your money on this junk *GShocked*.... it would be a mistake all the way around.
Spend your money on something decent.


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## gauntlet21 (Mar 16, 2017)

I am just starting to acquire some new flashlights as I apparently have the inherent desire to collect them. My next addition is going to be the Armytek Wizard Pro V3 XHP50 USB Rechargeable "headlamp". That said, it uses an 18650 battery. Prior to purchasing flashlights and their specific batteries, I began vaping. I am very familiar with the 18650 batteries that are used in vaping and can't help but notice that there seems to be a great difference between the two battery functions. The overlapping good qualities for flashlight and vaping 18650 batteries are to have high mAh and also be high-drain. The part that I am not entirely understanding, however, is the amperage qualities. In vaping, higher amp batteries are generally better (a 30A battery is better than a 20A) if you're looking to vape at higher wattages. The Armytek flashlight that I mentioned I will be purchasing states that the amperage should not exceed 10 amps (maybe 12 amps) if I heard/read correctly? So now I am confused. I realize that there are plenty of "flashlight" manufacturers that sell batteries designed for flashlights but most of them do not provide any further details other than perhaps their voltage and how many mAh they are. I cannot find any R ratings or amperage ratings on most of the flashlight branded batteries. Perhaps it isn't as competitive of a metric in the flashlight battery industry since 30A-40A batteries are not designed for flashlight use like they are in vaping? I am curious, however, to know what the best battery would be for the few flashlights I have just started to purchase and how I can intelligently purchase batteries based on the specifications each flashlight recommends. And if I am correct in that the Armytek flashlight should not have a battery exceeding 10A, how would a 4A, 6A, and a 10A battery affect its performance should all of the other variables remain the same. If you've taken the time to read this, I apologize for my lack of battery intelligence and appreciate your time assisting me.


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## SilverFox (Mar 16, 2017)

Hello Gauntlet21,

Welcome to CPF.

Let's ignore price to start. A battery that can handle a 20 amp discharge rate will work fine for any current draw below it max of 20 amps.

Most flashlights have less of a current demand that vapers do, so any battery that will work for vaping will coast along under flashlight conditions.

Tom


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## roadkill1109 (Mar 16, 2017)

That's right, just to add, might as well go for batteries with good capacity rather than high-drain capability because all high-drain batteries have low capacity resulting in lower run times in your flashlight. High-drain has more use for vapers since the higher current drain makes the mods safer to use with high wattage settings.

Also get a good charger for your good cells, these play a major role on how long those good cells will last. 

Lastly, never, never let the battery drain below 3 volts as you will ruin the battery. If you want to be on the sure side, get protected 18650's however you will have to check first if it will fit the light. If not, you will end up either ruining your light, your battery or it will get stuck inside the battery tube. Unprotected will always fit flashlights, that is a given, however you do have to be cautious of the voltage. Normally most modern lights have a way of warning you when the batteries are low, like a warning flash, or a light coming on on the side of the light to warn you you are low on battery power. (some lights just dim and can no longer run at max, this is their way of warning you the cell is almost completely drained. 

Oh yeah, welcome to CPF! You will enjoy your stay here.


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## ChrisGarrett (Mar 16, 2017)

roadkill1109 said:


> That's right, just to add, might as well go for batteries with good capacity rather than high-drain capability because all high-drain batteries have low capacity resulting in lower run times in your flashlight. High-drain has more use for vapers since the higher current drain makes the mods safer to use with high wattage settings.
> 
> Oh yeah, welcome to CPF! You will enjoy your stay here.



Well, now with hybrid chemistries, we really can have our cake and eat it too.

We've got 10A 3500mAh Sanyo-Panasonic NCR-GAs, we have 20A+ Sony VTC6s that are 3000mAh, The Samsung 30Qs 15A/3000mAh and a few others in that 3000mAh-3500mAh range.

This isn't like five years ago, where higher drain cells were in the 2200mAh range and the best 18650 capacity was 3100mAh, with that cell being good for 5A-6A.

We've got it good now. Heck, when I started here we had a choice of three (four if you count International Outdoors): AW 3100s, Redilast 3100s and Callies Kustom 3100s, all protected cells, but cells selling for $18-$21 a piece! Soon after, the flashlight guys started branding cells with their names, but it was slim pickins' back then.

Now we can buy protected quality cells for $8-$12 the last time I looked and if you can run naked cells, you can get Sony VTC6 cells for $8-$9--arguably the best 18650 cells for higher drains, on Earth.

Chris


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