# 1000W PAR64 HID 63000 lumens



## ez78 (Dec 15, 2007)

Does anyone have any experience with these PAR64 HID sealed beam bulbs?

http://www.drillspot.com/products/3...PL1000_PAR64_840_HR_G38_Metal_Halide_Hid_Lamp

and here with lower price:

http://jandslighting.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=52_42_62_70&products_id=1165

Just put that with a ballast in a Harbor freight spotlight and you have 63000 lumens Larryk12 type corded light. 

There are also similar china made 400W versions of that still with 36000 lumens. I wonder if those could be used with inverter and ballast compo so it would be portable.


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## Ra (Dec 15, 2007)

Heavy stuff!!

With Maxablaster, it already was a very hard job to construct a inverter/ballast setup with enough room left for batteries !!

I'm thinking about a inverter/ballast setup for the 200watt 10,000 lumens Emarc to fit in the Thor host: But with high wattages, both ballast and inverter will be bigger! So, with decent runtimes in mind, 400 watt HID and over will be out of the question IMO..


Regards,

Ra.


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## Cigarman (Dec 15, 2007)

How about a back-pack style battery/ballast combo? Plenty of room of LiIon or NiMH packs and a klunker of a ballast.


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## Ra (Dec 15, 2007)

Some put 2000watt audio in a car...

So why not two 1000watt HID headlights??.. Anyone??


Ra.


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## Flashanator (Dec 15, 2007)

Thats alota lumens. 

To bad my torch doesn't put out that much light.

not fair :mecry:


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## ez78 (Dec 15, 2007)

Yeah, I would use backpack for ballast and batteries if I tried to do this kind of portable setup. And runtime would not matter much, 10 minutes (after 2-5min warmup) should be possible with batteries you can still carry. Might be difficult to find 400W ballast that accepts modified sine from inverter. Ra, do you know any? Now I am just playing with this idea, but maybe some day. :naughty:

Edit: Here is one manufacturer for those chinese bulbs: http://www.made-in-china.com/showro...I/Sell-Metal-Halide-PAR64-Lamp-JN-M-P64-.html


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## Davekan (Dec 15, 2007)

ez78 said:


> Yeah, I would use backpack for ballast and batteries if I tried to do this kind of portable setup. And runtime would not matter much, 10 minutes should be possible with batteries you can still carry. Might be difficult to find 400W ballast that accepts modified sine from inverter. Ra, do you know any? Now I am just playing with this idea, but maybe some day. :naughty:
> 
> Edit: Here is one manufacturer for those chinese bulbs: http://www.made-in-china.com/showro...I/Sell-Metal-Halide-PAR64-Lamp-JN-M-P64-.html


 
Hello ez78

You can get pure sine wave inverters for cheap from Powerstream Technology. 300w $165, 1500w $750.

I'm really starting to think it may be worth building some sort of monster.
The wrong reflector that I ordered is a lot nicer, than I thought. It got me
thinking about ordering the big 355mm reflector, and making something
crazy. 

Lets face it, the stuff we are buying costs quite a bit already. I think
spending a few thousand on this is not out of line. Some lights cost
$5000 or more, and this would spank them in output.


Dave


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## monkeyboy (Dec 15, 2007)

Cigarman said:


> How about a back-pack style battery/ballast combo? Plenty of room of LiIon or NiMH packs and a klunker of a ballast.


 
This reminds me of a Ghostbusters toy I had as a kid


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## ez78 (Dec 16, 2007)

Hi Dave, thanks for the tip on those powerstream inverters, that 300W version could be put in a back pack but the 1500W is 'slightly' too big and heavy. I think 400W bulb setup might be the sweetspot, total weight could be under 10kg depending on battery type. 

I found something on ebay. This might run a 400W ballast.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-500w-pure-s...ageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m122

Not even too big 26 x 12 x 8.5 cm, and about 2kg. And 30 available. Sounds too good to be true, maybe bad quality.

Then how about one of these to go with that.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lumatek-HPS-MH-...ageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118


Heck, this could be tested if there was a seller for those 400W bulbs.

About reflectors. Nice thing about these sealed beams is there is no optics design needed. This would be very easy job compared to buying a separate reflector and maybe some short arc bulb. I am not on that level yet.


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## 65535 (Dec 16, 2007)

I think 1Kw HID ballasts are upwards of 7Kg.


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## ez78 (Dec 16, 2007)

65535 said:


> I think 1Kw HID ballasts are upwards of 7Kg.



Yes, you are right, that is too much. But 400W version would be easier, those are about 3-4kg. This seems to be one popular 400W MH ballast:

http://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalo...Cap-Model-400-MH-220-volt-Electronic-Ballast/

I have no idea if these aquarium ballasts work with more exotic types of metal halide lamps. But I quess they might since they contain adaptive electronics that should work with wide range of bulbs. Just fun to research the possibilities...


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## ez78 (Dec 16, 2007)

I have gotten sucked into this idea now. Can't stop searching. 

Here could be alternative for those chinese 400w sealed beams that might be difficult to get.

Metallic PAR64 reflector with socket ready:

http://www.technokit.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=G008HH

Example of bulb for that:

http://www.bulbamerica.com/HSR-400w-metal-halide-bulb-433-prod.htm


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## DM51 (Dec 16, 2007)

This thread is shaping up _very_ nicely!


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## ez78 (Dec 18, 2007)

After some more searching I think that Raylight DTS might not be high enough quality for HID bulb. And the bulb mount would have to have some postition adustment so you could play with the focus. Othervice you propably just end up massive output flood light. 

I actually contacted the chinese manufacturer out of curiosity for that 400W PAR64 MH NSP version and got an answer already with some additional info on those bulbs. Interesting was it said short arc and 3-4 degrees beam, that cant be true with glass reflector. No price for sample yet. These would have to be really cheap if I was going to risk it and paypal someone. And before that I would have to have complete info on the electronics that are needed and aprox cost for those.


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## Ra (Dec 18, 2007)

ez78 said:


> Interesting was it said short arc and 3-4 degrees beam, that cant be true with glass reflector.



Hi ez,

Please explain to us why you think that's impossible. Do you know something about reflectors that I don't? :thinking:


Regards,

Ra.


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## ez78 (Dec 18, 2007)

Ra said:


> Hi ez,
> 
> Please explain to us why you think that's impossible. Do you know something about reflectors that I don't? :thinking:
> 
> ...


Hi Ra

Nope I don't know much about reflectors. This was just more like general feeling based on the fact that these bulbs should be aimed for construction and stage lightening and such general purposes. No need for such high quality. And the tech sheet had some typos so I though this might be one.

Edit: But yeah I should have put question mark after that sentence you quoted, I don't really know what can be done with glass reflectors. I just pictured these halogen PAR sealed beams in my mind, they have all sorts imperfections.


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## ez78 (Dec 19, 2007)

I got price for the chinese 400W sealed beam metal halides. It is 56 euros for sample. I think I will be building some sort of hid monster soon but maybe it will be some sort of separate reflectror + bulb combo made from well known components rather than this chinese option. Feels too risky.


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## JetskiMark (Dec 19, 2007)

DM51 said:


> This thread is shaping up _very_ nicely!



I agree. I would like to build a three or four hundred watt HID toy.

Regards,
Mark


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## DM51 (Dec 20, 2007)

JetskiMark said:


> I would like to build a three or four hundred watt HID toy.


Off-topic, but Mark you are going to have to start another thread to explain that _THINGGGG_ in your sigline, lol.


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## ez78 (Dec 20, 2007)

Yeah, what is that. And it wouldn't bother me if you said it here.

EDIT: I found something interesting. Par64 reflector with built in focus adjustement mechanism. The Parabeam 1000 Par64 reflector in the end of this pdf:

http://www.light-engineering.com/theatre lighting.pdf


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## ez78 (Dec 26, 2007)

My research is progressing nicely. I am quite determined to make this 400W hid light. Ghostbusters style. Mainly just lumens monster with as much throw I can get. Will take time though. One problem now is that almost all 400W studio/projector bulbs that are suitable for this project give high amounts of UV radiation. I have heard this makes aluminum reflectors go dim gradually, not sure how fast, and atleast shielded front window is needed. There is atleast one interesting UV filtered bulb GE CSR575 HR UVC. And then those sealed beams should have filter so I am still considering those too. That chinese 400W is really a short arc or so they say, no error there. (in these wattages that could be 5mm arc) They say it can be driven with general electronic ballasts.


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## Ra (Dec 26, 2007)

ez78 said:


> I have heard this makes aluminum reflectors go dim gradually, not sure how fast,



That depends on the amount of UV and the UV-wavelengts involved..
But worst case, degrading starts to show after a mere 70-100 operation-hours.

However, I don't think the UV-output of the HID's you're writing about is as severe as the high-UV mercury short-arc's like in Maxablaster.. even at 400 watts..

My guess is that with a good quality aluminum-based reflector, you'll have about 300-600 opreration-hours before degrading starts to anoy you..

For projects like this, 300 hours is quite much! Your project is comparable to Maxablaster: The hour-counter of M-blaster reads 14 hours right now, thats for one year worth of playtime!

You need to grab your monster every day, and play with it for one hour, to reduce the reflector-life to one year! Do you think you'll do that?

I think you'll have at least ten years of fun with an aluminum reflector!


Regards,

Ra.


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## ez78 (Dec 26, 2007)

Thanks Ra, very good info. :thumbsup:

This makes finding the reflector easier and cheaper. I could even exchange the reflector for new one some day if I know it won't have to be done very often.

And you are right that I would propably use this light for just one hour per month or so max. Thats about the case with my larryk14 too, or even less really. More often I just take it out from its hiding place, stare at it for awhile and feel its weight and then put it back.


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## Flashanator (Dec 26, 2007)

So what absurd amount of money will I have to chuck at someone to build me one of these HID monsters??? :laughing:


Nice read this thread, ez I really hope you do make one of these lights man.:thumbsup:


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## ez78 (Dec 26, 2007)

Well looks like this can be done with about $1000. If the end results were about what I have seen in my dreams it would be worth it.


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## Davekan (Dec 26, 2007)

Well thats it, I'm going to order the big 355mm reflector from Melles Griot.

I will try to make something as bad as possibly possible.


Dave


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## ez78 (Dec 26, 2007)

Haha, way to go Davekan. :devil: I think thats the short arc route then with such super quality reflector. Normal hid does not need that much. Might be hard to find the right host for that one thought, kinda big, lol. 

I have been wondering thru lots of bulbs lately and there are interesting possibilites. These kinds of bulbs are vailable for example:

http://www.geconsumerproducts.com/p...cialty_lighting/showbiz_3hi_eff_short_arc.htm

Also osram and philips have similar bulbs. Osram have HSR and HMI. Philips MSR. SA usually means short arc in the codes. HR hot restrike. And so on. May the force be with you.

Edit: heres one nice one, 700W, 55000 lumens, 4mm arc gap:
http://www.cld-dist.com/shop/lamps/discharge_single_ended_entertainment/LAMSR700SA.html#

I have not really looked into bulbs with arc shorter than that, maybe you should...


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## Davekan (Dec 26, 2007)

Hello ez78.

I'm not too worried about the host. I know a bunch of Tin-Wackers, and
fiberglass people. Any machining needed is not a problem.

The bulb and electronics still need some thought though.

I like your searching skills on possible bulbs.

Thanks Dave


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## ez78 (Dec 27, 2007)

This was good reading about Osrams bulbs:

http://www.osram.com.br/download/catalogo/catalogo_display_optic.pdf

Found suitable ballasts:

http://www.schiederwerk.de/english/oempower/data.html 

Every ballast has also pdf file which mentions compatibilty with bulbs. No idea who sells these though or for what prices. These ballasts are mentioned in Osrams lamp specific data files too.


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## Flashanator (Dec 28, 2007)

Would these HID monsters ever be practical? If so would you build them like that? By practically I mean, instead of a few minutes runtime & worring about over heating, could the lights be ran for 30-40minutes? Can a portable back pack battery setup run a 400w or even 1000w HID light? Would you spend big big money on a reflector or maybe custom made light housing to handle the heat?

You have no idea what im willing to spend on a light with this many lumens, if its practical.

In that link you gave, there was a 12,000watter @ over 1mill lumens. Wonder if I could rig that on the back of a 4WD ute with alot of batteries. 4WD-ing at night with over a million lumens to see were ya going?

:help: Im becoming absessed with lumens!!!!!


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## ez78 (Dec 28, 2007)

Actually in that $1000 price tag I included three of these or something similar:

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2052

3 x that in parallel 12V should give about 30minutes. And with four of those in the back pack one would get 40-50min. Just some rought estimates with inverter sucking slightly over 500W. So this could even be kind of practical if you don't mind the 10kg back pack. 

But beyond 400W bulb power that back pack starts to become too heavy, atleast if pure sine inverter is used, might not be so fun anymore. 

Edit: Haven't put lots of thought to the heat things yet, but the 600W halogen Larryk14 puts out a lot more heat than 400W metal halide. And it has survived amost 10min runs in my tests. Maybe one cleverly installed fan in the spotlights body removing heat might be healty for things. And maybe some kind of insulation fabric and tin foil would be put between plastic body and metal reflector if there is problems.


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## Flashanator (Dec 28, 2007)

If it had to be done, 10kg battery pack wouldnt be that bad IMO. Considering the light output. 
But with the 1000w HID you posted, you wouldnt need a refelector? whats the lightest battery setup that could run that for a practical runtime say 35-40 minutes? Can you get custom made lithuim batts?

60,000+ lumens just makes me drool so bad.

Later.


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## ez78 (Dec 28, 2007)

I think I saw some short life time 575W bulbs which have over 55000, almost 60k lm. (Edit: maybe not, but atleast 50k lm)Might not have to go to the 1000W. But I know almost nothing about lithiums, except they are expensive and sometimes explode. For this project I think I would go with nimh.


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## Flashanator (Dec 28, 2007)

50k lumens at under 600watts, now thats amazing.  Whats the specs? Voltage, amps & lifetime? compared to the 28 - 36v Halogen lights like the sleeper & ken5?


Later.


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## ez78 (Dec 28, 2007)

Seems to be quite common for those 575W bulbs to give about 50000 lumens and usually 1000 hours life. More specs can be found from that Osram catalog. 

It would be fun sometimes to know the lumens output of some bright halide lamps in public lightning, when you spot some especially bright lamp somewhere. I quess when you go to some large sports stadium at night time there might be those 1000 watters.


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## liveforphysics (Dec 28, 2007)

I have Lithium Polymer rechargable battery packs for my RC stunt plane. I use 4 packs at 14.8v and 6,000mAh each. The packs are rated for 25C continous discharge. I run mine 2s2p to make a 29.6v 12,000mAh pack, you could run yours 4p and have a pack 14.8v 24,000mAh pack that could handle 650w continous discharge for 30 mins. The best part is weight. Each pack is about 650g, so you could have your whole battery weight at about 5-6lbs.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6323

These are very similar to the packs that I use.


Also, being a coral growing nut, I have loads of electronic metal halide ballasts laying around. Most all electronic ballasts simply run the AC comming in into DC before switiching it through a highspeed switching powersupply. If you made a pack to supply the DC voltage rails inside the ballast, you could skip the inverter stage, use less parts, and increase efficiency.

39 Small Lipoly cells in series, like 13 of these packs in series.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6308

This would give you the roughly 150Vdc power supply that the electronic ballast is going to want to see. Since each pack has ballance charger leads, it wouldn't be very tough to charge. I have two chargers that each can ballance charge two 3S packs at a time. Charging up this whole pack would take about 8hrs with the 2 chargers I use.


Weight would be 10.1lbs, and runtime would be about an hour for a 550w bulb. 

I think this is a totally possible thing to build, however, I see the cost being in excess of $2,000 for parts alone.

Best Wishes,
-Luke


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## ez78 (Dec 29, 2007)

liveforphysics, I have to admit that discharge rate is amazing in these LiPo cells. With those you would really get the Ah rating amount of energy when there is not drooping. That 6Ah pack looks like very attractive battery. Might even give it a go. How safe are these? 

But I have time to think about it. Batteries are kind of the the last thing on my shopping list. Only when everything else is put together and is confirmed to work then I would get the batteries. For testing would just use mains power and some lead acids.

That direct DC feeding might be little out of my league. I am not familiar with the internals of ballasts, I am just learning. If that could be done then without inverter and with LiPo cells one could make just ridiculous back pack HID monsters >1000W.  But I have kind of decided to pursue this 400W device now. 

Thanks for the tips. :thumbsup:


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## Flashanator (Dec 29, 2007)

Hey ez, what about the short life time 575W bulb? A little shorter life, & a bit more power to run then the 400w, but it puts out a hell of alot more light.


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## ez78 (Dec 29, 2007)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> Hey ez, what about the short life time 575W bulb? A little shorter life, & a bit more power to run then the 400w, but it puts out a hell of alot more light.



Well I have been secretly dreaming about that.  There is a 575W ballast with adjustable output, it could drive 400W and 575W bulbs. Then it would be easy to atleast test 575W bulbs too. Or slightly overdrive some 400W bulb, like 40k lm. I have made inquiry about the price of that ballast to the manufacturer.


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## Davekan (Dec 29, 2007)

I have 9 Thunder Power LiPo packs. They are 5s 5000 mah each.

I run them as 15s3p. That pack can put out about 15000 watts.

It can put out about 1750 watts for 30 min. The weight is only

5.5 kg. 

On a different note, the housing for the big reflector, can be made

from a 18" pro sound speaker. It is cast aluminium, and about the 

right shape.


Dave


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## ez78 (Dec 29, 2007)

I like you batteries, they are very nice. 

Good creative thinking with the speaker housing, haha. Maybe you could do a custom extension head to a Thor 15mcp. Might be slightly nose heavy though.

Hey, what are the fully charged voltages of 11,1V or 14,8V packs? Inverters would like either 10-15 V or 22-30 V.


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## Davekan (Dec 29, 2007)

ez78 said:


> I like you batteries, they are very nice.
> 
> Good creative thinking with the speaker housing, haha. Maybe you could do a custom extension head to a Thor 15mcp. Might be slightly nose heavy though.
> 
> Hey, what are the fully charged voltages of 11,1V or 14,8V packs? Inverters would like either 10-15 V or 22-30 V.


 

They are 4.2 volts per cell full charge. At 1c they are around 4v per cell.

1c is very lite load for this type of battery.

Dave


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## Ra (Dec 30, 2007)




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## ez78 (Dec 30, 2007)

The christmas holidays have been very good to this project. I have been able to spend nice amount of time researching this thing. Next week I will be back to work again and things will some what slow down but still there will be steady progress though. And atleast when the holidays are over I will start getting answers to my emails. The ballast comppany already answered and sounded positive but no prices yet. The chinese 400W sealed beam looks like good backup plan. They are ready to send me one for nice price.


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## liveforphysics (Dec 30, 2007)

I just did a quicky 3C test (about 17amps) on one of my 4S packs, and it dipped from 16.92v to 16.48v. Some of the LiPoly batteries can really hold amazingly solid voltages, but again, this was just fresh off the charger, and only I only held the test for about 20-30 seconds.

That is a drop of something like 4.23V to 4.12V per cell with an 18A load! Pretty stout cells! These cells claim 25c continous, and 40c burst! That would amount to 240A! , however, I expect the poor cell voltage to take a VERY severe hit under that sort of loading. At least we know that unlike many NiMH types of battery, you will have the ability to deal with the often 1.5 to double current draw period you see when lighting a MH bulb.

I'm actually in the process of making 3 little pocket keychain sized 1000lumen convience light. It will use some exceptional 25C HeCell LiPoly batteries I landed that aren't much larger than a couple of quarters  Direct drive to 4xR2 cree LED's with LOD-CE size optics all potted in epoxy with a lipoly charger port in the side of the epoxy and a dual stage pressure switch for a very dim setting, and a VERY bright setting  I've allready confirmed that the little battery can sustain well over the 4 amps needed to meet my goal. LiPoly is truely amazing stuff! 


Best Wishes,
-Luke


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## Ra (Dec 30, 2007)

If you want power...:

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4058

Unfortunately a bit expensive... But he, buy three of them to build a 4.5 kg 11volt 60Ah pack!!!


Regards,

Ra.


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## ez78 (Dec 30, 2007)

Yup, impressive batteries. Thats one big mother that 60Ah one. But yes atleast three would be needed. Quite gnarly price tag then.  

With my plans I am looking at about 25 amps from 24V source. This is still nicely done with NiMh. A pack of 20Ah and 24V would weight about 6,5kg and cost $450. With only about 1C discharge I would be getting about the real capacity worth of energy. With LiPo it would be roughly half the weight and double(edit: ok triple) the cost... If only these were cheaper.


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## liveforphysics (Dec 31, 2007)

I have a couple of LiPolys that I purchased new for $30 each. They are 5,000mAh 11.1v nominal. They are cheap because they are only 10c (15c burst) rated cells, which is old tech for RC guys looking to pull hundreds of amps.

If you could find a similar deal, you could have a compact light LiPoly pack for about $300-350 that meets your needs.

I personally wouldn't want the charging nightmare of trying to ballance charge 20 cells in series (though it can be done)... With LiPoly and the ballance charge plugs that come on the packs, ballancing and charging a huge pack is a snap.

The packs came from this flea-bay guy.

http://stores.ebay.com/RC-Megashop

They definately took the slow boat from China to get her, about 2-3 weeks, but they arived in good condition and perform as I hoped. If you emailed him and told him you wanted to buy 10 or however many of his packs, I bet he would give you a better price than than the $30 per pack I paid in the auctions. If he is willing to deal, that would actually meet your totally overkill battery needs on a budget.


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## Mel_PL (Dec 31, 2007)

Ra said:


> If you want power...:
> 
> http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4058
> 
> ...




If you want MORE power... http://www.powerstream.com/LLL.htm
Unfortunately not available but who knows...

-- M.


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## Flashanator (Dec 31, 2007)

Dam, these Lithuim batts are insane, I just love how dam lite they are. 

Provided their charged right & stored right, are there any dangers in having them in a back pack setup while powering a HID monster? In worse case scenario, do they explode with bits flying everywhere, or catch fire?

Maybe you could have the battery case made from kevlar. Might help. 


Later.


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## Ra (Dec 31, 2007)

The more power is concentrated inside a battery, the more dangers are involved using them..

I think it's not a good idea to short a 4volt 60Ah Li-Ion cell !! (Ofcource, it's not a good idea to short any Li-Ion cell..)


Ra.


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## Davekan (Jan 1, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> Dam, these Lithuim batts are insane, I just love how dam lite they are.
> 
> Provided their charged right & stored right, are there any dangers in having them in a back pack setup while powering a HID monster? In worse case scenario, do they explode with bits flying everywhere, or catch fire?
> 
> ...


 

Most of the fires are caused be over charging, more than 4.2v per cell.
Also charging at more than 1c, though some newer cells can go up to
2c. The other cause is a short. They do not explode like a bomb, but 
rather puff up, and burn very vigorously for quite some time. They also
produce alot of smoke while they burn.
A better choice for back pack is probably AGM type battery. There is also
a safer lithium type of cell used in the newer power tools.


Dave


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## ez78 (Jan 1, 2008)

Alright so there might be a change of finding affordable LiPo battery setup that can handle the task.

Quite a lot of these 11.1V 5000mAh packs are selling on ebay:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&dfsp=1&catref=C6&from=R10&_trksid=m37&satitle=11.1v+5000mah&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1&fsoo=1


So this could be ok pack? 

http://cgi.ebay.com/11-1v-5000Mah-1...ryZ84443QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

How about that ballance charging issue with the above linked battery?


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## Flashanator (Jan 1, 2008)

How many 11.1V 5000mAh packs would you need to power the 1000w ballast (EDIT:for a runtime of 45-50minutes?) Would be too heavy? IMO the limit for battery pack should be 5-6kg.




Later.


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## JetskiMark (Jan 1, 2008)

ez78 said:


> <snip> How about that ballance charging issue with the above linked battery?</snip>



I am not familiar with those particular packs, but they do appear to have a balance connector. It can be seen behind the output wires. Unfortunately, these connectors are not standardized and there are several different styles being used today.

I use Thunder Power and Poly Quest packs in my R/C models and with my high power lights. I use the FMA Cellpro 4S charger (I have 3) to charge my packs with this adapter. I use this Cellpro pigtail along with magnets to balance charge my AW LiIon C cells. They have the charger on sale for $60 occasionally. (I bought 2 more during their early December sale.) I have not used my Tritons for my LiPos since I got the Cellpro 4S. Do some research on it and make your decision. I am very pleased with mine. You will need a 12V power supply (which I already had for my Tritons).

Regards,
Mark


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## ez78 (Jan 1, 2008)

Flashanator, 1000W ballast means about 1300W from the battery pack. Best to do atleast 20Ah 22,2V pack. So you need eight of those 11,1V 5000mah batteries and then do four 22,2V packs in parallel. Runtime would be 20 minutes. The current from 22,2 volt pack: 1300W/22,2V = 58,6 A. Runtime: 20Ah/58,6A * 60min = 20,4 minutes. Any errors, quess not... (Edit: ok 16 x 11,1V 5000mah for 40minutes)


And thanks JetskiMark for those links and info.


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## Davekan (Jan 1, 2008)

This is great ez78. 1000 watt, with 60000 lumans. I like the sound of that.

Does anybody Know what effect reflector size has on bulb performance.

My Super Nova has 1000 luman bulb, and only 120mm reflector, yet it

still throws over 2000m. If I get 355mm reflector I may be able to go

hid and still get good throw. maybe 500 to 1000 watt, setup.


Dave:thinking:


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## ez78 (Jan 2, 2008)

I think in the end I am going to keep my bulb wattage in the 400W - 600W range. More than that can lead to back-aches and over developed calf muscles.  

About the throw. Someone like Ra could explain the reflector size and throw relation properly. But I know that bigger reflector or smaller arc both lead to more throw when things are adjusted correctly. I think the smaller the arc size in relation to the reflector size the better it is for throw.


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## Ra (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep, I can...

Oh and happy new year to all !!

Take two bulbs, both with 10,000 lumens output, but with different arc-sizes, lest say 1mm^2 and 10mm^2 (^2=square mm..)

The small arc puts out 10,000 lumens per square mm, the big arc 1,000 lumens per square mm! So the small arc has 10 times higher surface-brightness.

Its only the surface brightness that is important if you want throw!

A parabolic reflector is designed to concentrate the light from a (absolute..) point-source towards infinnity. As small as an arc can be, it never is a piont-source. The bigger the arc (compared to reflector diameter), the wider the actual beam from the reflector will become! And a wider beam with the same amount of lumens definitely brings less throw !

So high lumens output with a small arc is the answer for high throw (Maxablaster, Maxabeam and Megaray).


Any remaining questions, please ask..



Best,

Ra.


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## Flashanator (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm 10,000 lumens you say, higher surface brightness huh:thinking:

Ra, are you building a new SUPER Thrower?


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## Ra (Jan 2, 2008)

It will always be a challenge to think further than Maxablaster, lets face it, Maxablaster has an output of "only" 3200 lumens.

However, it will be very difficult to create a monster with even better throw in the same pakkage! The HID's we're talking about in this thread have much lower surface brightness than the short-arc bulb in Maxablaster.

So, like the Larryk14 in the hotwire catagory, these will be HID-lumens-monsters in the HID-world! With about twice the throw as the k14, but nowhere near the throw of Maxablaster.

The other possibillity are the Ushio Emarc UHP short-arc: High efficiency, high lumens output, better colorrendering. On top of that they have about the same surface brighness as the HBO103/W2 of Maxablaster, maybe even higher.. Ofcource I'm already looking into this to see if this could generate a monster, even more powerfull.. Can take one or two, perhaps three years tho.


But wait for it..



Best, 

Ra.


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## LukeA (Jan 2, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> Dam, these Lithuim batts are insane, I just love how dam lite they are.
> 
> Provided their charged right & stored right, are there any dangers in having them in a back pack setup while powering a HID monster? In worse case scenario, do they explode with bits flying everywhere, or catch fire?
> 
> ...



I know from experience that foil lipoly cells swell like balloons and then start to leak an extremely corrosive substance from one of the corners.


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## ez78 (Jan 3, 2008)

If I remember correctly automotive hids have about 4mm arc. I have been kind of looking at bulbs on that basis. I would be satisfied in beam characteristics like in those auto hid lights. For example Osram HSR 400W has 5,5mm arc. So I quess this installed into 200mm reflector might be about the same as 4mm arc in 150mm reflector like in the Amondotech illuminator. 

I'd be ready to order some parts but dealing with people by email is so slow. Propably takes a month before I get anything to test with...


I am little bit scared about this high UV output in these high power metal halides. But atleast I have learned that UV-C and UV-B will be blocked by just normal glass pretty well. So mostly there will be only UV-A radiation coming from the front of the light. Atleast that is the least energetic UV type. I am not yet sure what amount of UV-A exposure might be dangerous to the eyes, or how this UV output from bulb compare to the radiation you receive from the sky on a sunny day.


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## Davekan (Jan 3, 2008)

Alright this all makes sence now. What is the brightest bulb, that is 
obtainable, with a gap less than 1mm. This should work very well in
the big 355mm reflector. It would also probably not need much more
than 200 watts. 

The gap to reflector ratio would be 350:1 , or better this can only be
good for throw. It would need much less battery capacity. It would have
maybe more than 6000 lumans.

Dave


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## ez78 (Jan 3, 2008)

There are those HBO mercury short arcs in the Osram catalog on page one. 

Or maybe have a look at these Emarcs:

http://www.ushio.com/products/avphoto/emarclamps.htm


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## Ra (Jan 3, 2008)

Emarc has the advantage of high efficiency: The 200watt version has an output of 10,000 bulblumens.. Total system wattage is around 225 watts.

With an arc-gap of 1.2mm, the surface brightness of the 200watt emarc theoretically is equal to the Maxablaster-arc.

However, the arc of Maxablaster does not have distinct hotspots, it does have them, but the difference in the surface-brightness of the hotspots is not much higher than the average of the entire arc.

Especially in the professional world, info about the shape of the arc and luminous distribution over the arc-surface is very important! Wonder why Ushio is not that clear about these things..

Open an Oriel-catalog and find detailed info about the luminous distribution of various arc-types and even halogen filament-types!

Only a simple drawing in the Emarc-pdf on the Ushio-site shows a distinct hotspot near the cathode.. That could mean that the Emarc behaves like the xenon-short arcs we know from Maxabeam and Megaray.. That would also mean that Emarc is the best option to get even more throw than Maxablaster ! With 10,000 bulblumens as a bonus..



Best,

Ra.


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## Flashanator (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey this thread is becoming off topic, HID Monster talk only. Not boring mecury short arc stuff.


Nahh im just kidding:laughing: So Ra if you were to build a bigger thrower then maxablaster, would you simply update your orig maxablaster, or find a new host? Is it possible to have handheld?

later. :thumbsup:


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## Ra (Jan 3, 2008)

I do like Maxablaster too much, and it needed too much work to build the monster, that I would never think of taking it apart !!

I already am quite far, designing an Emarc 200watt monster in the same Cyclops Thor pakkage! Maybe I'll receive a host from the states soon.. I already have the suitable inverter (Monacor TWI 220).

The inverter is the hard part: These monacors are the most compact inverters that are up to the job! And are quite hard to find!
The TWI220 still fits under the Thor's belly with room to spare!

OK, the beast will not produce 63,000 lumens, my motto is: One step at a time, better a more portable light that works well and still is (a bit..) practical, than an impractical monster with 5 minutes of runtime.. 

Don't get me wrong: I love this thread, and love to think with you guyzz !

And maybe my intentions are a bit different: Ofcourse I want a more powerfull light than Maxablaster, but the throw must be at least equal to Maxablaster. I know, I'm a throw-guy, can't help it.. Guess I'm one of the few guyzz that know what throw can do to you..

Best,

Ra.


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## ez78 (Jan 3, 2008)

Speaking of Thors, I got mine yesterday, the 10 MCP. I remember wondering once if this could be used as Larryk12 host. Now I can confirm that Par64 sealed beams will not fit right away but looks like with some cutting it is well possible, although one would loose the screw fastenings. Maybe steel wire can be used instead of screws, looks like that. Strong host contender.

About throw vs lumens. I think I would prefer monster throw over monster lumens too but the lumens way seems to be easier to do. Fits my skills better.


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## Flashanator (Jan 3, 2008)

ez, what beam pattern do you have in mind with this kind of light? Sleeper kind of flood? Or Throw? Even if it was throw, wouldnt it still have alot of flood? What are your thoughts on heat with the thor host? Will runtime be in small bursts?


Later.


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## ez78 (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe too early to try to answer so specific stuff. I'd like as tight beam as possible but it depends on the parts I can get hold of. Might have to accept some compromizes if some parts are unavailable. This whole thing is still in research phase and changing shape.

Edit: Well runtime is kind of simple thing. I am aiming at 30-40mins continous use.


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## Flashanator (Jan 3, 2008)

Thx man. With these 400-1000w HIDS. Do you think its possible to build a super flood (like larryk14?) rather then a big thrower?

How would a 400w HID in a big reflector compare (throw wise) to maxabeam & megaray? With such high lumens?


Later.


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## Ra (Jan 3, 2008)

You need about 6-9 times the reflector surface of Maxabeam (2.5-3 times the diameter..) to obtain the same throw. Something like the 240 blitz-reflector.. Maxabeam has about 1.5 times the throw of Megaray. (but megaray has higher lumens output..)

These theoretical assumption are based on the average surface brightness of automotive HID, and can be different with other HID-bulbs..

Be ware of the fact that many high wattage HID-bulbs have frosted arc tubes! For best throw you ofcource need a clear arc tube..

Lumens are lumens, it's harder to get rid of lumens during a project than to get rid of throw !! One design-flaw can cause severe throw loss, but the lumens remain.. So with 63,000 lumens you'll definitely have lumens-monster that draws attention!!


Ra.


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## JetskiMark (Jan 3, 2008)

This is an excellent thread. I appreciate all of the research, knowledge and ideas contained within.

I'm just a hotwire guy with little knowledge of HIDs. (I own a Costco and a Power On Board, but I have never built or modded one.) I just need a shopping list of materials and I will build it.

I just want to build something that is significantly brighter than my HyperBlitz and my LarryK14. I really enjoy the "wall of light" that these two produce. I like it when I aim at the end of a street and every tree, house and car along the way is brightly illuminated. More throw would be nice, but I would hate to lose the bright spill. I am also spoiled by the light weight of my HyperBlitz; 1974 grams (4 lbs. 5.6 oz.). I could live with something the size of a Thor that weighed up to 10 kg (22 lbs) if it blew away my HyperBlitz. Of course, the smaller and lighter the better.

I wonder if it would be possible to install the 270 watt EmArc with 14000 lumens and a 1.5mm arc gap into a 1991 Coleman spotlight that I have. It has an 8 inch metal reflector and a glass lens. It is the same light as this one.

I will be following this thread with interest.

Regards,
Mark


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## Ra (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Mark, join the club!

I hope that I not offend you when I say that building a halogen lumens monster is much easier than building a HID lumens monster: Lots of extra space is needed for electronics. It's hard to keep things poratble! And we'll never reach the 2 kg mark with the HID-monster we're talking about here! More like the 10 kg mark!

The posibillity of using the standard blitz-reflector depends on the size of the HID-arc: The arc-size must overcome the imperfections in the reflector shape to obtain the best throw.
I can tell you right now that the Emarc definitely needs a high quality reflector, and these are quite expensive, over $350.- ! Look at the prizetag of the 1000w PAR64 the OP posted about.. and you need an electronic ballast.. Not everybody has $2000 in an old sock to spend on this..

Edit: Oh, I forgot: You need an inverter as well. None of these high power ballasts are going to run on 12 or 24 volts!

Some of you already know:

If you want a super HID monster that really works, you must realize it won't be easy and certainly not cheap !!

But all this negative BS doesn't stop us !! Does it ??

One advise: Only start buying ingredients when you are shure it's going to work..


Best,

Ra.


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## Flashanator (Jan 3, 2008)

The coin isnt my restriction. It's my knowledge 

Builing a maxablaster light? Ummmm nooooooooo. 

mission impossible.


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## JetskiMark (Jan 3, 2008)

Hello Ra,



Ra said:


> I hope that I not offend you when I say that building a halogen lumens monster is much easier than building a HID lumens monster: Lots of extra space is needed for electronics.



No offense taken, my hotwires were easier to build than most my R/C models.



Ra said:


> Look at the price tag of the 1000w PAR64 the OP posted about.. and you need an electronic ballast.



I still like the idea of using that PAR64 sealed beam lamp. 63000 lumens, 53000 mean lumens, 4000K color temp, clear, narrow spot, 6 degree beam and a 3500 hour life. $242.97 at the linked store in the first post. Sealed beams are so easy to work with. It would be nice not to have to deal with an expensive reflector and having to critically align the arc. Plus not having to find a suitable lens and a mounting solution for everything would be a huge bonus. I will need a larger host than my LarryK14 to accommodate everything, I’ll probably get a Thor. I would only have to get a socket and a ballast. I wonder if this ballast would be suitable? That dealer charges too much, but all the specs are on that page.



Ra said:


> Oh, I forgot: You need an inverter as well. None of these high power ballasts are going to run on 12 or 24 volts!



118.4 volts DC would be easy with eight 4S LiPo packs in series. I already have enough 4000mAh packs on hand to do this. That 1000W ballast draws 9 amps at 120V. That would be over 26 minutes of theoretical runtime which would be adequate for me. The problem would be finding a ballast that would work with DC. All the ones I could find were AC. I imagine that DC would destroy everything. I already have a 1200W inverter that I could use, but I would like to find a DC solution and save the weight and size.

I really want to build this soon, my HyperBlitz seems normal to me now. I need much more.

Does anybody know of a suitable DC ballast or what would happen if you ran an AC ballast on DC?

Please help me, I have a serious addiction.

Regards,
Mark


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## BVH (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, Mark. I'll help you. And this is a SERIOUS offer of help. If you figure it out, which, it looks like you're going to do, it might be cheaper to buy two of everything - think discount. You can use the second set to build one for me for which I will pay you handsomely. That way, you're not out so much money, see? Now that's one serious flashaholic helping out another serious flashaholic to the max! See? What a great place this is!

I also know where 165 amps of 110 Volt DC power can be had......Well maybe it's not so portable.

PM me


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## Flashanator (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey Mark, What BVH Said 

If you go with the 1000 watt Sealed Lamp:naughty:


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## BVH (Jan 3, 2008)

When it comes to Ballasts/transformers, I'm weak on technical knowledge. I know HID's want certain starting voltages and then over a specific time interval, they throttle back to running voltages but where does one find out the exact requirements that the lamp has to be able to match it with a ballast? I don't see any of this info in the many pages of ads for bulbs I've looked at.


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## ez78 (Jan 4, 2008)

JetskiMark said:


> I wonder if this ballast would be suitable? That dealer charges too much, but all the specs are on that page.



Thats one of those magnetic coil ballasts. They are heavy. For portable it would have to be electronic/digital ballast I think. They are lighter and more efficient only down side is the higher cost.

It can be challenging to get the right ballast. There are these general ballasts that are easy to buy, but succes is not quaranteed:

http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/digital-ballasts-c-21.html

The optics lamps like HSR and HTI have their own ballasts they work best with but it just takes more time to find a seller.


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## JetskiMark (Jan 4, 2008)

BVH said:


> OK, Mark. I'll help you. And this is a SERIOUS offer of help. If you figure it out, which, it looks like you're going to do, it might be cheaper to buy two of everything - think discount. You can use the second set to build one for me for which I will pay you handsomely. That way, you're not out so much money, see? Now that's one serious flashaholic helping out another serious flashaholic to the max! See? What a great place this is!
> 
> I also know where 165 amps of 110 Volt DC power can be had......Well maybe it's not so portable.
> 
> PM me



Hello BVH,

Thank you for your generous offer. You're a funny guy. After seeing your 300 watt HID Locator (not self-contained nor portable, but amazing considering the smallish reflector) blow away my HyperBlitz, I knew a 300 plus watt HID was in my future. But why stop there? One thousand is a nice round number. This is all your fault.

Once a suitable ballast is found, I can see making several complete lights. I know you, Mr. Ted Bear, mtbkndad and several others will want one.

Regards,
Mark


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## JetskiMark (Jan 4, 2008)

ez78 said:


> Thats one of those magnetic coil ballasts. They are heavy. For portable it would have to be electronic/digital ballast I think. They are lighter and more efficient only down side is the higher cost.
> 
> It can be challenging to get the right ballast. There are these general ballasts that are easy to buy, but succes is not quaranteed:
> 
> ...



I posted that link a little prematurely. I was checking the price of the bulb on that site and that was the first 1000W ballast that I came across. I found the weight listed on another site and it was 20 pounds! Definitely not suitable.

I have not been able to find any electronic ballasts over 400 watts though. Then there is the major issue of one that works with DC. I wish I knew how to design and build a ballast for this application.

Regards,
Mark


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## ez78 (Jan 4, 2008)

There were some 1000W electronic MH ballasts on the Hidhut site. 

I have been searching for DC input ballasts too but not luck yet. Looks like inverter is needed.


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## BVH (Jan 4, 2008)

Mark, I'm certainly glad it's my fault! I was getting worried that I was going to get thru my life without anything being my fault. So this is it, huh....my first "fault". I'm so proud! Well, at least it involves flashlights!

Theoretically, if this comes to fruition, the light would consume the same amount of power/amperage as the VSS-3a's - 1.0Kw. I'd prefer a slightly more floody output versus throw.

Mark, I'd also be interested in building one for myself along with you as you build yours if that works out.


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## liveforphysics (Jan 4, 2008)

Reguarding electronic ballasts and DC input.

I have many electronic MH ballasts, 400w being the largest I have. None of them do anything with the AC power they get other than running it immeadiately through a full wave bridge and a couple caps to make a 150ish VDC source out of the 110VAC you put into them. Feeding them DC directly and skipping the inverter nonsence really seems like the best way to handle a project with weight, space, and efficiency being important objectives.


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## ez78 (Jan 4, 2008)

liveforphysics said:


> Reguarding electronic ballasts and DC input.
> 
> I have many electronic MH ballasts, 400w being the largest I have. None of them do anything with the AC power they get other than running it immeadiately through a full wave bridge and a couple caps to make a 150ish VDC source out of the 110VAC you put into them. Feeding them DC directly and skipping the inverter nonsence really seems like the best way to handle a project with weight, space, and efficiency being important objectives.



Would it be possible for you to post a photo of these ballast internals with maybe arrows pointing to the components where DC could be connected? Or could I find info about this on the net somewhere?

There is that high ignition voltage lurking somewhere in the ballast electronics if the iginitor is integrated in the same package so one can't go randomly searching for the DC spots with a voltmeter I think.


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## 65535 (Jan 5, 2008)

I did a few calculations, and I think this could be done for just under $5k. 

But I do believe for a 1kw MH magnetic HID ballast you need AC input, since it's basically a ballasting transformer.


I have yet to find an electronic ballast that goes above 400watts.


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## liveforphysics (Jan 5, 2008)

You must have a creative imagination to guess prices like 5k. I'm certian I could create this light for less than 2000, and it's likely it could happen for under $1500.

Also, here is one of about 10 models of 1000w electronic ballast I found after looking for about 1 minute. I picked this one because it was the lightest.
http://www.specialty-lights.com/futurebrite1000.html

It's a mere 8lbs. It's also a solid state electronic switching type ballast.

This site offers 3 models of electronic 1000w ballasts.

http://www.specialty-lights.com/electronic-ballast.html

This site offers a few more

http://www.planetnatural.com/site/order.html?id=5SYwCIvz:131.107.0.105

Here is a compact model available on flea-bay.
http://item.express.ebay.com/Home-G...QQptdiZ832QQddiZ984QQadiZ828QQcmdZExpressItem

Here is a whole page of different 1000w electronic MH ballasts.

http://search.express.ebay.com/Home...trksid=m51&_nkw=1000w+electronic+ballast&_nd1=


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## 65535 (Jan 5, 2008)

What was the cost of cells? I picked high grade Thunder Power packs rated at a whopping 1200Kw hours, for a runtime of 1 hour.


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## liveforphysics (Jan 5, 2008)

Absolutely every one of these ballasts makes a DC voltage source from the AC, and then uses a bank of FETs and PWM to control the current output to the bulb.

To adapt to DC, simply follow the connections from where the AC power cord enters the device. It will likely pass through a fuse block, and perhaps an inductor or some other filter. Then it will enter a device called a full wave bride rectifier. This will be the way every single electronic ballast will be setup.

This photo shows what FWBRs look like in the power range you would be seeing in a 1000w ballast.







Simply solder leads to the 2 legs of the component that are labled + and -. Whenever DC power is applied at the correct voltage to that area on the board, the ballast is going to fire up. It's really that easy... 

I actually have the parts laying around from my RC and aquarium hobbys to build a 400w MH flashlight that would cost me nothing more than the bulb, reflector, and houseing.

I personally would also recomend cutting runtime goals down. It's entirely your own project, and perhaps it has special needs, but I find that I never use my own high powered toys for more than about 5 minutes of running at a time, and maybe never over 10 minutes. There just never seems to be something 2 miles away that I am interested in looking at for more than a couple minutes. In the night sky, I always prefere to play with my 250mW lasers more than a high powered flashlight. If your application has these runtime needs, then by all means go for it. You might just find that these sorts of lights are effectively useless for practical illumination purposes, and it really seems to limit the amount of runtime I require with them. I'm a guy with around $3,000-$5,000 in flashlights and lasers, and the only light with more than an hour of use is my pinky sized LOD-CE, so perhaps I just haven't come across the need that other people find to be waving around a mile long beam of light for 40mins at a time, as the novelty seems to wear off in about a 5 minute run for me.

Best Wishes!

-Luke

PS, when you buy a ballast, take it apart and take a clear photo of the side of the board that the power cable connects. I will show you exactly where to connect your leads from your battery pack.


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## liveforphysics (Jan 5, 2008)

65535 - He no need for the highest discharge rate cells. They have lower energy density than lower discharge rate LiPoly cells, and they are often 3 times the cost.

He would only need 12 packs like this in series to give him 30-35+ minutes of runtime. I've bought a few from this guy for $30, some go cheaper, I'm sure he would be willing to deal with you if you were going to buy 12 of them. This places the battery cost in the $350-400 range.

This is a link to the indivdual packs I've bought from this guy at $30.
http://cgi.ebay.com/11-1v-5000Mah-1...433711QQihZ006QQcategoryZ142753QQcmdZViewItem

Here is a link to the packs he has available. It's likely you could find even cheaper sources if you hunt around.

http://stores.ebay.com/RC-Megashop_Li-Polymer-Battery_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ11932810QQftidZ2QQtZkm

No need to have over $1,000 invested for battery, charger, ballast and enclosure. Bulb and reflector are more decisions that the guy needs to make depending on what his goals/applications are for the light.


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## Flashanator (Jan 5, 2008)

One use for me running a light that has this much lumens preferabley in a flood output for 45-50mins. 
In my spair time, I do a bit of riding at night with my 4wheeler (fishing for yabbies n stuff) going to the river & back. So considering its low speed, id just mount for the light on the 4 wheeler. Sounds a bit odd? are asif.

Later.


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## BVH (Jan 5, 2008)

liveforphysics, thanks for some good tech info on ballasts! How does one find out how to match a ballast to a bulb? If I have a 500 watt lamp, will any 500 Watt ballast work? What about starting voltage & current versus running voltage & current and the transition time. I can't imagine all 500 watt ballasts are the same. Is the spec buried in the lamp specs somewhere?


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## liveforphysics (Jan 5, 2008)

There are probe start or pulse start bulbs. With magnetic ballasts you have to carefully match things up. With electronic ballasts, most of them have universal starting ability.

Remember, all these things are is a flyback transformer to pop some HV arcs to get the plasma chamber ionized, then it's just a simple PWM controlled current supply. You just need to look at the current requirements of the bulb you intend to run and see the the ballast it set for a similar value. Why only similar? Because these things can be over or under driven by about 25% safely and without much hassle.

In the aquarium world, we very often use normal output 400w MH bulbs, but we power them with a "HQI" ballast. The HQI ballast pumps about 450-500w into the 400w bulb, which decreased bulb life but increases efficiency and output by enough to make it worth doing for many.

Link me a spec sheet of the bulb and I will help you choose a ballast.


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## BVH (Jan 5, 2008)

I don't have anything in mind at this point. I'm just trying to understand the starting and running circuits and how to match them. The above was very helpful! Thank you! But I may take you up on your offer if I decide to build something.


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## JetskiMark (Jan 5, 2008)

Hello liveforphysics,

Thank you for your knowledge and your input. The OP mentioned this PAR64 lamp. That is what I am planning on using.

Regards,
Mark


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## liveforphysics (Jan 5, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW - I rally my KTM 300exc at 60mph at night with only a 35w HID retrofit in the normal headlight housing. It seems to be more than adquate for me, and cost less than $70 to setup.

For your application, I recomend this. Buy a 2 bulb 2 ballast car HID retro kit ($110 ebay). Swap 1 into the factory light enclosure on your 4 wheeler for flood, and mount the other into a thor type housing mounted to the front of your vehicle for long range vision. The lighting will truely be more than adquate for night operation, perticularly low speed operation.

Also, no need to waste your time with batterys packs if you are mounting this on a vehicle. Buy a "uprated lighting coil kit" for your 4 wheeler. I got a 600w coil for my KTM for something like $100. People make and sell larger ones, or you could have one custom wound and mount your own Nd2Fe14B magnets to replace your existing ferite magnet on your stock lighting coil.

Here I was visualizing you needed this for mountian search and rescue operations or night helicopter movie filming or something...


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## liveforphysics (Jan 6, 2008)

Jetskimark- While it would have less throw than some incan spotlights you can buy at wallmart for $20, it would be capable of lighting up a massively large spot at a long distance.

I didn't see a current spec listed, but 77v and 1000w tells me 13amps. Most normal M47 ballasts are a little higher voltage and lower current. You would likely need to tune the circut to meet the needs of the bulb, or it's also possible that the output stage of the electronic MH ballast would be "smart" enough to automatically do it for you.


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## Flashanator (Jan 6, 2008)

thx 4 the advice lifeforphysics.

And i thought i was the only one who rides my 250 at nightime :naughty:
Good stuff, I love it. Dunno what my light is, but its dull. Maybe 1200lumens.
I wouldnt mind makng a setup for the front to stick a 1000watt light on + the 1000+watt coil for my bike. 

After I saw that 1000w sealed lamp.
I just cant see using anything lower, you know what i mean. 

Later.


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## liveforphysics (Jan 6, 2008)

Your stock headlight is likely much below 1200lumens. My stock KTM "35w" bulb was only drawing 2.25A at 10.2V with the stock coil. That made it a meger 23w of dim hotwire. The HID kit pulls 44w, and I'm thinking that bulb is getting the full 35w it claims.

Stock hotwire was likely in the 700 lumen range by being under powered.

HID retro swap is likely making 3000+lumens, and I feel pleanty confident blasting around at night on my KTM now. It's also fully regulated so my light doesn't go dim at idle and bright at redline.


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## ez78 (Jan 6, 2008)

liveforphysics, thanks for the excellent input! :thumbsup:

Does it matter if the ballast has active or passive power factor correction for the input, in the end DC will still be found on some components? I mean this stuff: http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/faqpfc.html

About bulbs, in addition to the sealed beams I have been eyeing these optics bulbs.

For good throw, if nice enough reflector is found I might use this bulb:

http://www.osram.com/_global/pdf/osram_com/products/display_optic/5_TI-Bl%25E4tter/HTI/HTI405WSE_XSe.pdf

Less throw, more lumens bulb:

http://www.osram.com/_global/pdf/osram_com/products/display_optic/5_TI-Bl%E4tter/HSR/HSR575-60e.pdf

Seems to be that the shorter the electrode gap gets the lower the arc sustaining voltage need to be. In the HTI case only 55V. Might be problem with general ballasts.

Atleast this ballast could drive those lamps: 

http://www.schiederwerk.de/daten/pvg_5-n_ac.pdf 

Don't know yet what is the minimum order from the manufacturer.


When I go out with my lights I normally drive to couple of locations to take small walks. So I will propably make 30+ minutes battery pack to suit my needs.


----------



## Davekan (Jan 6, 2008)

Would there still be voltage regulation, if we go without a inverter.

Pardon my ignorance, if this is a stupid question.

Dave:shrug:


----------



## liveforphysics (Jan 6, 2008)

The ballast uses PWM and and moniters the voltage of a low resistance resistor in series with the load to control current. When the voltage being switched drops, the PWM increases the period it's switched on for to regulate current at a constant value. This is how many of the electronic ballasts and powersupplies can take a range of input voltages like 90-250VAC, and still function the same.

Great question to ask!

Best Wishes,
-Luke


----------



## Flashanator (Jan 8, 2008)

How could I set up 2 PAR64 1000w lamps on a 4WD to work? Could a setup run them off your vehicle system, like 2 inverters. Id like to use them for 3-4 hrs at a time when I go 4 wheele driving. Hell even 1 would be enough. If possible, anyone got any links or info on this? EDIT: Would the beam pattern of the 1000w sealed lamps be suitable. Id like sleeper kind of spread. Not enormous throw, but rather coverage.


Later.


----------



## ez78 (Jan 8, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> Hell even 1 would be enough.



Haha, lol, you are so easily satisfied. 


I think that PAR64 1000W is quite floody. Although is does say narrow spot. Theoretically with the 6 degrees beam this would mean you get 100m diameter spot at 1km range.


----------



## Davekan (Jan 8, 2008)

I should have a quote on 406mm parbolic reflector today.

Dave


----------



## Davekan (Jan 8, 2008)

Davekan said:


> I should have a quote on 406mm parbolic reflector today.
> 
> Dave


 

Done, I should have it 3 weeks. It is from Opti-Forms. 

It is electrodeposited bright rhodium. It has a diameter of 405mm.

This should work for somthing bad.


Dave


----------



## JetskiMark (Jan 8, 2008)

Davekan said:


> Done, I should have it 3 weeks. It is from Opti-Forms.
> 
> It is electrodeposited bright rhodium. It has a diameter of 405mm.
> 
> ...



That reflector sounds interesting. Should be quite the thrower. Is it one of the 16 inch parabolic reflectors on this page? Which focal length did you get? It's too bad they do not list their prices. How much was it?

What bulb and ballast are you going to use in your monster? It should be killer with that large reflector.

Regards,
Mark


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## Davekan (Jan 8, 2008)

Hello JetskiMark

It is on that page, It has a focal length of 2.35", it is model; -8.

I'm not sure what bulb I will use yet. It is big enough that I may go
hid on this, because it is easier. I may go 1000 watt setup.
The cost is $750 for this reflector. I think that is a good deal.

Dave


----------



## ez78 (Jan 9, 2008)

Very interesting reflectors. Might have to ask for prices for the 7.87 or 9.6 inch versions.

I wonder where one might find adjustable bulb mounts for these. (Edit: Ok, they do mention on the Optiform site that they have mounts too...)


Ra, can you reveal where you got the bulb mount for the Maxablaster? Or did you design and machine it by your self?


----------



## Ra (Jan 9, 2008)

Totally my own design, machened it myself..


Ra.


----------



## ez78 (Jan 11, 2008)

Dang Ra I was hoping you'd say you bought it somewhere. But yeah, once again very impressive stuff about the MBlaster. 

I got price for the P33 -05 reflector from Optiform $430. This was with bright rhodium coating.

And I am waiting for 400W sealed beam metal halide from china. This would be easy ticked to 30000 lumens light. I'll report if and when it arrives someday.


----------



## Flashanator (Jan 11, 2008)

ez, whats the diameter of that really nice reflector?
Can you give me a estimate on what the whole light will weight?

later


----------



## ez78 (Jan 11, 2008)

The diameter is 9.09 inches. So this should go into the 15MCP Thor nicely. But I won't be ordering anything before I know I can buy or make bulb mount into this reflector. Can't say about the weight things yet.


----------



## Flashanator (Jan 11, 2008)

so i think its fair 2 say, ur light will throw like hell? 

good stuff


----------



## ez78 (Jan 11, 2008)

Well, lets keep things cool.  I think I might choose the sealed beam route if this 400W works out. It'd be so much easier and faster to do. But that would not be that much of a throw monster but just super output.


----------



## Davekan (Jan 11, 2008)

I have heard that The Philips MSR Gold 1200 SA/SE Bulb has 5mm
gap and 110,000 lumans. They also make 400 watt, and 700 watt.
I do not know what the gap is on the smaller ones.

These would have very high surface brightness, over 60000 cd/cm^3.

I'm a bit surprised that the 9" reflector costs over $400, and the 16"
is $750. 


Dave


----------



## ez78 (Jan 11, 2008)

I remember the MSR SA 400W is available with 3mm gap and 30000 lumens. It's got potential.

Actually the reflector price seems to correlate to the size pretty accurately: 9/16 x $750 = $420. Now we can quess the cost for any size with rhodium coat...


ADD: There might be a problem with driving some of these optics bulbs with the general ballasts. I was told so by one seller, apparently some bulbs had failed. If one was to use these MSR bulbs or something similar I would suggest that one first tries to get a proper ballast. For example from www.Schiederwerk.de.

The sealed beams might be allright since they have longer arc thus higher voltage.


----------



## Davekan (Jan 11, 2008)

I will try to get a price on PVG 12-n AC, from Schiederwerk. I did notice
that the voltage on these bulbs is a little less than other hids.
I do like short-arc solutions, though the balasts for them are hard to get
and cost as much as a small car in larger sizes. Also the bulb needs complete x,y,z adjustment capablity.

Dave


----------



## Davekan (Jan 21, 2008)

Well I got my big reflector. It is bigger than I thought, I mean in person.
I will get some pictures up as soon as I can.

Dave


----------



## Flashanator (Jan 22, 2008)

Can't wait.


----------



## ez78 (Jan 22, 2008)

Sounds good. :thumbsup: I decided to test this sealed beam stuff before I possibly get the Optiforms high quality reflector.

I will get my 400W "short arc" sealed beam from the customs today. If I have the time I can too take some closeup shots of it. I just hope it has survived the shipment in good condition. 

Oh and I have ordered a ballast from schiederwerk. The 5-57AC 400-575W was about $400.


----------



## DM51 (Jan 22, 2008)

Continuing to follow this thread with great interest!


----------



## ez78 (Jan 22, 2008)

I got the sealed beam. Actually looks quite good. The reflector finish is not as good quality as in GE made bulbs but still pretty promising. And this was cheap. I don't have a ballast yet so don't know what kind of beam it produces. I would estimate the arc gap is about 5-7mm.

Here is couple of quick shots.












Fits nicely into the Thor 10MCP after some dremeling. :devil:


----------



## Ra (Jan 22, 2008)

It's taking shape !!

Should I be afraid now??

ez, quick, put some batteries and a ballast in there and let it shine dude!!



Best,

Ra.


----------



## dulridge (Jan 22, 2008)

Ra said:


> I already am quite far, designing an Emarc 200watt monster in the same Cyclops Thor pakkage! Maybe I'll receive a host from the states soon.. I already have the suitable inverter (Monacor TWI 220).



Postage might kill it, but you can get these from B&Q in the UK for about 30 euros. Might be cheaper than getting one from the US. Will check weights and what it would cost to get one to Holland if you are interested

Donald


----------



## Davekan (Jan 22, 2008)

Well here is the 16" reflector, with other lights.


























Dave


----------



## ez78 (Jan 23, 2008)

Holy hell, that sure is cute little reflector. I think you can make something bad with that.


----------



## Flashanator (Jan 23, 2008)

ez, your making me drool!!!!!


can't wait to u lite that monster up.
:thumbsup:


----------



## Davekan (Jan 23, 2008)

Hello ez78

In my 55 watt hid the front glass can get very warm. I wonder if that
par64 will get very hot and melt the plastic. I sure hope not.

Also I'm thinking of getting Schiederwerk ballast for my project.
Did you order direct from Schiederwerk. Did you get igniter also.
There are hot and cold types. I may go 400 watt with 3mm gap
bulb, or 700 watt with 4mm gap bulb. The 1200 watt may not have
much run time, and would have a wider beam.

Dave:thinking:


----------



## ez78 (Jan 24, 2008)

Davekan said:


> Hello ez78
> 
> In my 55 watt hid the front glass can get very warm. I wonder if that
> par64 will get very hot and melt the plastic. I sure hope not.
> ...



Yes there is the possibility of meltdown, you are right. I have given this some thought. I will insert some fire proof blanket fabric into places where glass would be touching plastic. This low density material between surfaces should decrease the heat conduction to the plastic. And I will mount a 60mm fan to the battery door of the Thor. Air will be pushed thru the light and out from the ventilation holes around the bulb. And since this will always be used outdoors and at nighttime the air will be cool. My quess is it will be ok, but only testing will tell if there will be some expensive smoke and fire.

I ordered directly from schiederwerk . The order was 32 184 1000 JST ballast and 32 058 1110 cold restrike ignitor. But now there seems to be a slight problem with my order. Since I tried to order as a normal person and they only prefer to sell to companys. Anyways the 400W MH PAR64 bulb manufacturer makes their own ballast too so it is my backup plan. 

Later.


----------



## ez78 (Feb 9, 2008)

Today I ignited the 400W HID for the first time in my living room. Almost frightening experience, it was bright.:sick2: Takes about 2 minutes to full brightness. Kind of floody but still with somewhat tight center spot, tighter than with the Larryk14 and more intensity.

I got suitable ballast for it this week and it is actually a model that takes 110V DC input voltage. So I could make a setup without inverter if I put enough batteries in series. I just don't know yet how steady the input voltage has to be kept, will there be problem with dropping battery voltage.

No photos yet because inside shots don't tell much I think. I'll take shots once I have finished making this portable into the Thor and can go out with it...


----------



## Davekan (Feb 9, 2008)

Hay ez78. Good to hear you have found ballast solution. I have tried to
find good hid ballast, and have not found one yet. 
I have however found a 3000 watt short arc power supply that is fully
adjustable. I will get a price and lead time any time now.
I will probably go the short arc route, because I have 4 1600 watt bulbs
that I won on Ebay. They have 2.8mm gap with 70000 lumans. 24v at
65 amps.
It looks like your project will finish before mine.

Dave


----------



## DM51 (Feb 10, 2008)

Very glad to hear you are both persevering with this, and greatly looking forward to the results!


----------



## ez78 (Feb 10, 2008)

Ok I could not resist taking some indoors shots. Although these don't reveal the monstrous flood this 400W HID delivers, only the spot. But you get some idea what is going on. 

Edit: I noticed that because of the height on which the camera was set on this quick photo shoot the 400W HID spot might be causing more glare to the direction of the camera than the upper comparison spots in the pics. This would give it some extra intensity. So have to wait for the outdoor shots to see the real difference between these lights, still the 400W HID will be superior, eyes could tell that.

This is the Amondotech illuminator versus the 400W.






Here is my Larryk14 driven at 29V which is very bright, still I'd say there is some *** kicking going on. 






Add: Camera was set on 1/2000 exposure, lowest it can go, and F5.0. Still the 400W spot seems to have 'burned' to just white on the pic, too bright to capture any shades.


----------



## Flashanator (Feb 10, 2008)

ez u have gotta be kiddin right??

Thats ridiculously bright compared to LK14.


----------



## IMSabbel (Feb 10, 2008)

ez78 said:


> Add: Camera was set on 1/2000 exposure, lowest it can go, and F5.0. Still the 400W spot seems to have 'burned' to just white on the pic, too bright to capture any shades.



how long does it take to until the paint starts peeling of the door if you shine that against it?


----------



## ez78 (Feb 10, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> ez u have gotta be kiddin right??
> 
> Thats ridiculously bright compared to LK14.



Yeah, it's quite mad. If only my neighbours knew what I am preparing here. I am pretty happy that this sealedbeam gives a nice spot and not just flood. 


IMSabbel: Haha, I actually walked to that door after the photo shoot and felt it with my hand to feel if it got any warm. Well it didn't but still I got kind of worried, maybe if it was painted black.


----------



## adirondackdestroyer (Feb 10, 2008)

EZ,

This is freaking insane, I love it! How many lumens do you think this monster is going to put out? Will it be the brightest light on CPF? That would be quite an honor considering how there are quite a few power junkies on here. 
And to think I always considered my Sam's HID to be ALOT of output! :laughing:


----------



## Flashanator (Feb 10, 2008)

Besides short arc it would have to be the bomb. 400w HID.lol

Wonder how this would stack up againts the Hyperblitz?

:thumbsup:


----------



## ez78 (Feb 10, 2008)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> EZ,
> 
> This is freaking insane, I love it! How many lumens do you think this monster is going to put out? Will it be the brightest light on CPF? That would be quite an honor considering how there are quite a few power junkies on here.
> And to think I always considered my Sam's HID to be ALOT of output! :laughing:



In homemade modifications this might be quite strong contender once finished. Have to remember that this is still under contruction althought testing indicates 'nice' potential. The lamp manufacturer gives a lumens number that is quite common to 400W HIDs, little over 30000 lumens. (edit: exact number was 36000lm from manufacturer)

But there are some brighter lights on the forum. I think those tank lights are brighter? The Blackhawk HID Locator would have more intense spot although less lumens maybe. Maxablaster has much more intense spot and out throws everything, less lumens though. And ofcource BVH has that WWII anti-aircraft searclight that is pretty powerfull.


----------



## ez78 (Feb 10, 2008)

Davekan said:


> Hay ez78. Good to hear you have found ballast solution. I have tried to
> find good hid ballast, and have not found one yet.
> I have however found a 3000 watt short arc power supply that is fully
> adjustable. I will get a price and lead time any time now.
> ...



Hi Dave
Alright very interesting bulbs, what type/manufacturer are they? That kind of setup takes more time to do but in the end if you can pull it off nicely it would spank this setup I am doing. 3000W short arc ballast sounds expensive I won't even ask.

So you didn't have luck with Schiederwerk either? I would have wanted their adjustable ballast but didn't seems to get a deal, but now this chinese ballast seems to work nicely. I just hope it won't break anytime soon either.


----------



## Empyfree (Feb 10, 2008)

This is awesome! I work in the conference and events industry, and regulary use large discharge lamps in theatre style lamps. The most common types we use are 150W, 250W and 575W phillips lamps, however by the time they're fitted into a light the whole package often weighs in at 20kg plus!

Regarding the photo's try stepping down the f-stop to see if you can get a "decent" exposure!

I'm going to keep watching this with interest.

P.S. you guys may be interested to know that most of the theatre lamps use a really small reflector, not more than a few inches across. They use custom optics to focus the beam and create useable light.


----------



## BVH (Feb 10, 2008)

Just doing some rough calcs - for my 60" CA:

78 Volts x's 150 Amps = 11,700 Watts x's 45 Lumens per Watt = 526,500 Lumens. (It's very difficult to find a Lumens per Watt figure of CA's)

Locator 300 Watts x's 100 Lumens per Watt = 30,000 Lumens

(This is a guess on my part that Xenon HID are 100 Lumens per Watt. I've seen some articles that say up to 125 Lumens per Watt. Someone jump in if they have a different figure)


----------



## Davekan (Feb 10, 2008)

ez78 said:


> Hi Dave
> Alright very interesting bulbs, what type/manufacturer are they? That kind of setup takes more time to do but in the end if you can pull it off nicely it would spank this setup I am doing. 3000W short arc ballast sounds expensive I won't even ask.
> 
> So you didn't have luck with Schiederwerk either? I would have wanted their adjustable ballast but didn't seems to get a deal, but now this chinese ballast seems to work nicely. I just hope it won't break anytime soon either.


 

Hello ez78 

I did not even try Schiederwerk, after hearing what you mentioned before. I have taken a 15 " Cerwin Vega Stroker apart. I had this in
my vette before so I already had it. The cast basket is 15.625" in diameter and is about 3 lbs. It is perfact for my application. The O.D.
of the reflector housing will be about 18" because the bulb needs forced air cooling. I will also run a small stepper motor for focus. I have some
small linear bearings that will take care of the z component. The bulbs
are XBO 1600 W/HS OFR. The hot gap is around 3.2mm. I will probably test these fo failure, because I got them cheap.
I'm still waiting for power supply.

Dave


----------



## Davekan (Feb 16, 2008)

Well I have now ordered a 3000 watt Short arc power supply. It should be here in about 10 days. I have also orderd a 700 watt ballast for
hid bulbs. Because they come from the same place, I also threw in
1200 watt and 400 watt ballast. I will get both hot and cold igniters
with those also.
When all this crap gets here I will tell all were this stuff can be had.

Dave


----------



## ez78 (Feb 16, 2008)

Sounds good Dave. So you might have a source for ballasts where anyone can buy and not just comppanys?

I have done first tests with my setup using only battery power. The ballast is rated for 110V DC but seems to be fine with constantly dropping battery voltage too. I let it drop to about 95V and it was still running fine. I was afraid it might shut down.


----------



## Davekan (Feb 17, 2008)

Good to hear that your dc tests are working out ez78.

I will only believe this stuff I have ordered exists, when the FedEx truck
gets here.

Dave


----------



## ez78 (Feb 21, 2008)

That previous test was still with my testing batterys, some SLAs, but now my final backpack battery is almost complete. 

I just run the light about 30 minutes continous with this:


That's 14 x 7,2V 3000mAh. Fully charged it is about 114V. Final setup will have 15 x 7.2V, one extra inside the Thor. I will still make some plywood support and wrap everything nicely. And Thor is not finished yet.


----------



## Ra (Feb 21, 2008)

ez78 said:


> That previous test was still with my testing batterys, some SLAs, but now my final backpack battery is almost complete.
> 
> I just run the light about 30 minutes continous with this:
> 
> ...



ez,

Now I'm going to be very interested if your battery-setup is going to work!
I'm especially interested in how you charge that pack!

Great work! Keep us posted!

Ra.


----------



## ez78 (Feb 22, 2008)

Ra, yeah I thought that this mad light needs a crazy battery to go with it. I realize there could be problems with keeping the batteries in balance in long term use. But othervice it seems to run the ballast and light really well. There will be volt meter in the light. And about 4 amps is very light load for these packs so maybe they will stay in healthy condition for some time. And these were kind of cheap from local rc store.

I have two chargers that both are able to charge up to 14 Nimh cells in series. I am charging 12 cells at a time, two racing batterys in series. Seven plugs in the pic. I measured the individual rc pack with volt meter(some needles into those yellow AMP connectors) and they seem to come of the charger with very well matched voltage. Also balance charging individual rc packs sometimes could be done this way if needed.


----------



## Ra (Feb 22, 2008)

To be more clear,

Let me give a theoretical example of the main problem with high-voltage NiMh-packs:

Lets take 3 cells in series: Totals close to 4.2 volts fully loaded. Even when not totally balanced, when, during discharge one cell drops to zero, the other cells are mostly already down to about 1.10-1.15 volts. I always take a cutt-off voltage of about 3volts for a pack like this: None of the cells can ever get to zero, or get killed by a negative charge-current.

But you propably know, that when you have more cells in series, finding the best cutt-off voltage will be a problem:

Take 100 cells in series: Fully loaded: 140 volts. nearly empty: 112 volts.

Due to the drastic voltage-drop at the end of the capacity, there is no way you can (ultra-) balance a pack like that. So if you still are in within a voltage-range of about 112-115volts, one or two cells already can be at zero, and get a negative charge, and you won't even notice: You still see 110-113 volts!

I understand, for you, the only option is to use a pack like that: An inverter is out of the question: Too big and you still need a quite large pack to obtain a decent runtime.

With Maxablaster, the 12 volt-pack is kept in the safe by the inverter: The inverter automatically shutts off below 10.2 volts. With the 13 Amp current, there is now way that one of the cells (or cell-modules) can ever hit zero or get a negative charge.

So this is why I'm curious how things will work (over the weeks or months..) with your setup ez,


Maybe you did already know all this.. But I felt the need to say this..


Best,

Ra.


----------



## ez78 (Feb 22, 2008)

Ra,

Thanks for the very informative answer! Yeah, I have been thinking most of those things but I am not a pro with this. I quess I will be trying to play it really safe and cut of much before the total pack voltage is telling me to do so. Maybe even in the middle of the discharge, maybe limit the playtime to 15 minutes with a clock. In theory this pack is good for 30-40minutes. Or if I knew what is the weakest battery in the setup and measured only it's condition...

I actually have a 600W pure sine inverter and suitable batteries and 400W AC to 110V DC converter too. Like an alternative setup, but this setup would weight more than double compared to the high voltage Nimh setup so I want to give this a try.


----------



## Davekan (Feb 25, 2008)

Hello ez78 

Ra has made brought up some good points, and so have you. 
I do know that if you trickle charge packs, they will equalize.
I have from back in the day, a charger form Astro Flight that can
fast charge packs up to 40 cells, or even trickle charge that many 
cells at one time. I wonder if you can make a trickle charger for
all of your cells. It would need to be between C ~ 20-50, for
current output.

Dave:thinking:


----------



## ez78 (Feb 25, 2008)

Actually with my two chargers I can easily charge the whole pack in one day if I am somewhere around to change the sockets every now and then. 

About tricke charging, I think my racing packs manual said somewhere that these batterys don't like to be trickle charged. Not sure if it's really harmfull though, and this would only be for special reason sometimes if it helps to get in balance. 

By the way, do you guys know how fast these Sub-C cells will start to lose capacity if they are always discharged to say 40% capacity and then charged to full again? Is it necessary to drain them closer to 1,1V per cell sometimes maybe?

So Dave, how is it going with your ballasts, did you get them yet?


----------



## Davekan (Feb 26, 2008)

Hello ez78
:drunk:
I think it is best to discharge to ~1 volt per cell to maintain full capacity
of the cells. Perhaps you could use a resistor to do that, also some chargers have discharger built in.
The packs can be peak charged before use, if they have sat for a some
time. The packs will lose about 1% charge per day, as they sit doing
nothing.

The place I have ordered the stuff from has received the money, but
has not sent anything yet.

I'm not worried yet, I think.

Dave


----------



## Davekan (Feb 26, 2008)

I forgot to mention that trickle charging does not hurt in your app. It only
can hurt for high currant apps. 

Dave


----------



## ez78 (Feb 26, 2008)

Ok good to know. I might consider getting one of those discharging devices with adjustable cut off if the pack proves to be othervice solid. 

With LiPo and automatic cut off per cell this kind of pack would make better sence I quess. But I didn't feel comfortable doing such pack and storing it in my appartement since those cells are more aggressive when something goes wrong.

Easy with those beer bottles, you might short circuit something.


----------



## ez78 (Mar 7, 2008)

My 400W HID Thor is now ready. Here are some photos: 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/191645


----------



## Flashanator (Mar 7, 2008)

that beast looks amazing, No really. AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Davekan (Mar 27, 2008)

Davekan said:


> Well I have now ordered a 3000 watt Short arc power supply. It should be here in about 10 days. I have also orderd a 700 watt ballast for
> hid bulbs. Because they come from the same place, I also threw in
> 1200 watt and 400 watt ballast. I will get both hot and cold igniters
> with those also.
> ...


 
Well I have had my ballasts, and bulbs for some time now, but I have
not been doing any testing, because it is almost impossable to get
lamp base sockets. 
I have 1 GY 9.5 coming in next week, and will spark up 700 watt HMI
next week.

Dave


----------



## ez78 (Mar 28, 2008)

Good to hear your plans are progressing.  I think I have found those GY/GX 9.5 bases from some online stage/entertainment lightning stores but maybe they were all here in Europe. I dont have the links now. Remember to protect your eyes against the UV radiation and possible bulb shattering when testing the lamp.

I am having my lamp tested today to see what wavelenghts it outputs, I have a feeling it might be giving some UV too. I have couple of times noticed some mild eye irritation after having fun with the light. Better find out what is going on.


----------



## Davekan (Mar 30, 2008)

Hello ez78
I was under the impression that glass will attenuate uv over 90%.
I do know that you should not stare directly into the beam for more
than a few minutes.

Dave


----------



## IgNITEor (Mar 30, 2008)

Davekan, I'm looking around this thread to find what reflector you're gonna use for your 700 Watt HMI.
I contacted Opti-Forms awhile ago about availability of a slightly larger ($$$) version of yours for a 1800 Watt HTI and Osram's nice 7 mm gap, and they kindly asked for electrode lumen density and photometric's.
Whoa! Ra knows about this stuff.
What did you offer Opti-Forms for specs when you ordered your 16"
blinding work-of-art?

This group offers a nice selection of ballasts and ignitors and respond well to emails:

http://www.dealec.co.uk/acatalog/erc_special_application_ballasts.html

They have limited gear in 120 Volt.
Those hot re-strike ignitors are plenty spendy but very convenient.
Your Thor 400 W PAR is totally killer-photon-danger!!


----------



## Davekan (Mar 31, 2008)

Hello IgNITEor

I also have been thinking of possibly going larger, 2500-4000 watt HMI
in 762mm rhodium reflector. The only reason for the first tests, to be done
with bi-pin bulbs is time. I will eventually go with double ended bulbs, with
electric focus.
I think electrode luman density is going to be high, given 7mm gap with
165000 lumans. That information is available but not necessary for rhodium reflector selection. I'm not sure why they would ask that, unless
the distribution of the light in the gap is not even, it may allow you to go to a smaller reflector.
Ra does know more about this, than just about anybody. I think he has a Ph.D in this stuff.
For specs I told Opti-Forms 1200 watt NMI with 5mm gap, and 16" diameter. Thats all.

I will be in Toledo for the next week, and can not do any testing till next
week.


Dave


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## ez78 (Mar 31, 2008)

Dave, as I understand it normal glass blocks 90% of the radiation that is below 300nm wavelenght. But 300-400nm is still UV. Does the HMI bulb have an outer glass shell, or is it naked like Maxabeam bulb? The arc chamber in these bulbs is quartz glass I think, that will not filter UV. 

I noticed some minor eye symptoms couple hours after I had been walking around with the light when there was snow on the ground. So propably the snow was reflecting too much 'something' back at me. Could also be that the visible light intensity itself was little too much. Yeah looking into the beam would be a bad mistake. I have held my hand in the beam and it does not leave any marks, although the heat is pretty bad, but no sunburns or anything.


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## BVH (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm having fun watching this unfold, guys. Keep it up! I'm anxious to see final products - bring them on!


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## Davekan (Mar 31, 2008)

ez78 said:


> Dave, as I understand it normal glass blocks 90% of the radiation that is below 300nm wavelenght. But 300-400nm is still UV. Does the HMI bulb have an outer glass shell, or is it naked like Maxabeam bulb? The arc chamber in these bulbs is quartz glass I think, that will not filter UV.
> 
> I noticed some minor eye symptoms couple hours after I had been walking around with the light when there was snow on the ground. So propably the snow was reflecting too much 'something' back at me. Could also be that the visible light intensity itself was little too much. Yeah looking into the beam would be a bad mistake. I have held my hand in the beam and it does not leave any marks, although the heat is pretty bad, but no sunburns or anything.


 

Hello ez78
The bulb I will use first is Made by GE, CSR 700/SA CODE 15380.
Yes it is of the naked varity. I will have glass window infront of reflector,
and will be getting it coated to increase the output in the visual range.
I think it may not be usefull to our health to use these lamps at short range. I'm very interested in the spectral output of your lamp.
I hope it was just the visible light intensity, off the snow, that caused
some eye issues. I do now that UV-C is the worst for the eyes, and skin.

Dave


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## ez78 (Apr 1, 2008)

Dave, the spectrum can now be found in the 400W HID Thor thread. It shows that glass is filtering out the under 300nm UV-C area nicely. Don't know exactly what kind of glass this is. 

The sensitivity of the meter was maybe set little too low in the scan, everything is pretty close to the base. About the eye irritation, atleast it went away in 24 hours or so and nothing wrong after that. It just felt like little dry eyes.


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## Holzleim (Aug 1, 2008)

Hi All,

I read this thread and some other about very high power (>=400W) portable HID lights.
Beside the problems concerning the reflector, the UV radiation, cooling, ....
I understood that one big task is the chain of battery -> ballast -> bulb, where you have to place many cells in series, or battery -> (inverter) -> ballast -> bulb, where you need the additional space (and weight) for the inverter, along with the additional losses of the inverter. 

So my question is:

Why not self-make a ballast that consists of current and voltage controlled dc-dc converter circuitry that is optimized for a certain input voltage of a certain bulb.

So you might take a 2p4s (2parallel, 4series) LiPo Pack of 5Ah 30C cells as input, giving 5Ah * 3,7V * 8 = 148Wh of energy. Driving a 1kW bulb you would have to take less than 10C from the cells, giving a runtime of ~6min.
If you will spend more money, just put more cells in parallel.....
Such a battery pack is rather easy to balance and charge.

If the bulb needs rather high voltages for operation, I would use a transformer based dc-dc circuitry, that surely must be capable of handling the startup-current of the bulb.

And at this point I lack some theory and exact datasheets about the voltage/current needed for these high-power bulbs over the whole operation cycle of startup, stabilized run, dimming, ....

Does anyone know here some reliable data, that I would be need to design a dc-dc customized ballast?

Greets,

Holzleim


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