# 1st build started today Quin SST-50



## Curdog92 (Jan 1, 2012)

Not sure how this will turn out--going for mass lumens, with an attempt at handling the heat. I'm not concerned with practical use, size, or weight. I'm using 2" x 4" flat aluminum bar and turning it to build the head. The head alone will be almost 4" (diameter) x 6" (length) with imbedded copper cores under each LED. I will press in a 5/8" x 2 inch copper core into each hole in the head, then solder each LED directly to the copper heatsinks. I will cut fins in to create as much surface area as possible.

Any ideas on how long this will handle the heat of almost 100W?

Well, someday I'll get to post pics.


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## Curdog92 (Jan 1, 2012)

I have read the rules and FAQs but cannot seem to find the post count required to attach an image. Can someone tell me how to obtain posting attachment privileges? Thanks.


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## Curdog92 (Jan 17, 2012)

Hopefully I have figured out the image thing 

Here's some starting photos: 1.5 inch X 4 inch aluminum bar turned to 100mm X 37mm






Layout with reflectors





First holes bored. Layout done with manual protractor. They were off by more than 0.1 inches in various directions. The copper bar will be cut for heat dissipation.





Since I have no rotary table or indexing head, I created this simple jig for more precision in boring holes for copper heatsinks.





Now they are off by less than 4 thousandths in any direction.





Copper bar cut to be turned and pressed into holes.





Press 1 & 2 went well, #3 was a couple thou larger and the soft copper expanded, got sideways before I noticed. 





Should have used a sleeve--about 1/2 inch short of full press


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## Curdog92 (Jan 17, 2012)

My plan is 5 SST-50s on this massive heatsink driven by a H6Flex at 5 amps. Practicality is not a consideration, so I'm not worried about size. I'll keep adding aluminum block with fins until it the heat can be fully dissipated. Any initial thoughts/comments/suggestions from the pros on this forum?


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## moderator007 (Jan 17, 2012)

Wow! Thats going to be one massive head. Is this a flashlight powered by batteries?


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## cmacclel (Jan 17, 2012)

Looks good so far but I hate to say it you will not gain anything really measurable going with copper inserts. I made 2 complete heatsinks one out of aluminum the other from solid copper. The copper heatsink at the end of my testing kept the LED's about 10 degrees (F) cooler.

Mac


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## Curdog92 (Jan 18, 2012)

Not sure how I'll power it away from the bench. I have a variable 30V/10A power supply to test with. With the H6Flex, I'll probably have to create a S/P battery combination to get any runtime at all with 18650s, right? (I have quite a few of these, no experience with many others used on builds I've seen in the forums.) I suspect I'll have to move up to higher capacity batteries, possibly hi drain/hi capacity RC batteries if I can get the head to produce the output I'm hoping for. (Before anyone says it, I realize I'm approaching this backwards 

One of the main reasons I am using copper is that I wanted to solder the LEDs directly to the heatsink. I don't have star LEDs. I'm already regretting that decision--too much work for very little gain as you pointed out.


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## cmacclel (Jan 18, 2012)

Curdog92 said:


> One of the main reasons I am using copper is that I wanted to solder the LEDs directly to the heatsink. I don't have star LEDs. I'm already regretting that decision--too much work for very little gain as you pointed out.



You would of had to solder the LED's to the Copper posts before pressing them into the aluminum heatsink as it would be really hard to do it now. I have some extra left over SST-50 bare star boards if you want 6 of them PM me your address. I think I have that many left 

Mac


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## Curdog92 (Jan 18, 2012)

Thanks for the offer, but before I take you up on it, let me get your advice on my plan. I had intended to mill a 6.5x5.6mm rectangular platform on each copper core. (Similar to what was done in this thread http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...arbolight-U9-with-SST-50-driven-at-5A-by-H6CC, but my platforms would be sized to the LED die, versus a round platform as wquiles did.) Since this head is massive, a heat station or heat pen is not practical, so I was hoping to use solder paste and mount the LED dies in an oven much like many DIYers use ovens/solder paste to remount SMDs. My big question is this: can a SST-50 LED withstand 475 F in an oven? (I had planned to test this theory with a cheaper LED.)


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## MikeAusC (Jan 18, 2012)

Curdog92 said:


> . . . . My big question is this: can a SST-50 LED withstand 475 F in an oven? . . . .



For a reliable life, the ONLY data you can trust is from the manufacturers datasheet.

Heating time = 2.75 to 3.5 minutes

Max Temperature = 217 deg C for 30 to 60 sec

Cooldown rate = LESS THAN 4 degC per second

Cooldown time 30 to 60 seconds


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## lucca brassi (Jan 18, 2012)

> For a reliable life, the ONLY data you can trust is from the manufacturers datasheet.
> 
> Heating time = 2.75 to 3.5 minutes
> 
> ...




but this is very strict temperature protocol for reflow soldering not for kitchen owen ! http://www.luminus.com/products/datasheets/Luminus_SST-50-W_Datasheet.pdf from picture on page 15


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## MikeAusC (Jan 18, 2012)

lucca brassi said:


> but this is very strict temperature protocol for reflow soldering


.... and that is exactly what he is planning to do.


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## moderator007 (Jan 18, 2012)

Curdog92, this thread might interest you.


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## Curdog92 (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks for the input. Yes, I have followed quite a few of these massive builds, and they were my inspiration. I was a little off on my C to F conversion...I bought Zephyrtronics solder paste which reflows at 217-219C, same spec as the LED temp. Reflowing a SMD on a PCB is easy in an oven. Just cover the pad with solder paste, place the SMD on the pad/paste, and watch until the solder liquifies/SMD settles into place, and remove from oven. But with this massive head/heatsink, I fear there will be a huge time differential between the heatsink and LED reaching the required temperature. My plan is to preheat the head. I'll place it in the oven, and time how long it takes to get up to the required temp. Once I know the required time, then I can complete the task in one quick step. For example, if it takes the head 10 minutes to get to 217 C, then I know that at 9 minutes, I have to open the oven, place the LEDs with tweezers, wait for them to settle, then remove from oven. 

Or, if I knew the LED could withstand the temp longer than specs on the data sheet, I would set it all up while cool, "cook until done" and remove. I guess I should have fully explained my question. Thanks for the input.


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## moderator007 (Jan 20, 2012)

Maybe you could try it in a cast iron frying pan on the range. The leds shouldn't see as much heat until seated.


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## Curdog92 (Jan 20, 2012)

That's a great idea! I had not thought of that...Thanks.

All 5 copper cores now pressed: 






This weekend I'll mill them down to to the size of the LED die and let you know if the frying pan idea works!


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## lucca brassi (Jan 20, 2012)

I can said that massive heatsink is very bad idea , heatsink must *be light* and have *big surface* and material from *high thermal conuctivity* .

To full use of the thermal transport routes (and lower common mass ) temperature should be spread form the *thick base* with placed leds to the *most** remote section *of which *is **the thinnest *.

The best shape for handheld torch inserts is *H* shape .

To optimize such big beast is very good idea to thermal isolate leds between them not to cumulate heat in the heatsink mass...






white area is thermal insulator in black air gap


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## moderator007 (Jan 20, 2012)

A propane torch may also help in the installation. You could try heating the side of the heat sink inline with the copper pedestal while in the pan at a lower temp. To bring just the pedestal where your installing the led up to temp. Then move to the next one once reflowed. This may keep the heat down on the leds you have installed while trying to install the rest. This is all just suggestion's. I do know that aluminum will spread heat pretty evenly and quickly. Wish you luck Curdog92. :wave:


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## The_bad_Frag (Jan 20, 2012)

Wow that looks nice! I would add a lot of fins to the heatsink. A massive heatsink alone wont keep it cool for long.


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## Curdog92 (Jan 21, 2012)

Thanks. I've got a plan for fins and cooling...remember I expect the head alone to be about 6 x 4 inches when done. (If that's not enough, I'll add more.) Instead of leaving the round copper cores protruding, and milling them to 5.6 x 6.5 mm to create LED solder pads, I decided to create a smooth copper/aluminum surface, and mill grooves to create the pads. See photo--haven't milled grooves yet. 





I do have a question. What guage wire should be used to wire the LEDs up in series? And then, let's say I have to go 4 inches to the H6flex, what guage?


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## moderator007 (Jan 21, 2012)

The current determines wire size not voltage. In series you have a high voltage with what ever your estimated drive current will be. I am assuming your going to run at 5amps. 22 AWG would probably work fine but 20 AWG or below would be better. The bigger the wire the less resistance. If you can get some silicone high strand count wire that would be best. You can find it at RC hobby shops or online sold by the foot.


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## Curdog92 (Jan 29, 2012)

Made a little progress on my project...here's a few pics.




















First thought was to mount LEDs on pads, then solder wiring to the underside, then encase the wiring in JB Weld. After further thought, I now plan to mill out a groove in the JB Weld to create a solid copper wire inlay so that the LED will mount just like it would as a SMD. If it works out as planned, it should be a very clean install for the LEDs.


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## wquiles (Jan 29, 2012)

Great photos - looking forward to seeing more of the project 

Will


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## mikesantor (Jan 29, 2012)

This project is looking great. Thanks for sharing!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## CKOD (Jan 29, 2012)

Nice work, the JB weld should work out great. Ive done comparative testing and had stars mounted to heatsinks with JB weld, and it handled reflowing just fine. Cant wait to see the copper inlaid and turned down. 
As big and thermally massive as that heatsink is, I'd reflow the LEDs on a stovetop. Add a temperature sensor (the infrared laser ones wont be accurate with bare aluminum!), And if youre using solder paste, apply your paste, heat the whole thing to ~100-115 C, place your LEDs carefully, and turn the stove up and watch closely. Once the solder starts melting, turn off the stove since the temp will keep rising a bit as the heat on the bottom makes it way to the top. let it cool enough for the solder to solidify, then move it to another burner to cool fully (if you have an electric stove. If you have a gas one, I'd imagine its fine just letting it sit where it was)

Dont quench it in water, or cool it very quick, as the ramp down rate is just as important(if not more important) as the ramp up rate.


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## Hoop (Jan 30, 2012)

Is that a cnc mill? If not, how did you machine the circle without a rotary device?

Press fits should generally be around a few tenths to a half thousandth to avoid galling and bent pins. (pin should be .0002 to .0005 larger than the mating hole)


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## easilyled (Jan 30, 2012)

Exciting project. You have enviable skills.

I'm just wondering why you choose to use SST-50s instead of XM-Ls? XM-Ls are significantly more efficient than SST-50s and produce less heat. Even though you can drive SST-50s harder you get as much light output from driving an XM-L at 3.0A as you do from driving an SST-50 at 5.0A and at that drive the SST-50 consumes far more power and produces far more heat.


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## Curdog92 (Jan 31, 2012)

Thanks for the comments. I tested the stovetop method tonight with success with a few non LED SMDs--worked fine, although it was on a much smaller scale. I am still testing different methods of creating the copper traces--having trouble with just about everything I tried. I tried solid copper wire milled to 0.7mm, pressed copper wire, even milled copper block. But the best results have come from cutting a 2 mm cross section of 1 inch copper tubing, then cutting the circular piece, flattening it out, and then shaping it to fit from LED to LED. The wall thickness is 0.8mm so I essentially end up with a rectangular wire (2mm X 0.8mm) that is easily bent and shaped into place and will sit upright once I refill the groove with JB Weld.

I am using a non-CNC, 1988 model RF 31 mill I picked up for $500 a few years back. It has tons of run-out, and several hundredths of slop/backlash on every axis. It's very hard to get any precision out of it--tons of compensation required while working with it. At the same time I'm working on the flashlight, I am slowly restoring the mill. 

I created a little jig with a pointer (that can be seen in the pictures clamped to the mill table) and rotate the head by hand. While I realize its not safe to mill something being rotated by hand, it is aluminum, I'm using a small bit, and I'm taking very small cuts on each pass. 

I divided the head into 5 parts using a compass/protractor initially and was off by large amounts--several hundredths. I finally achieved reasonable accuracy using simple geometry to calculate the distance between the 5 points on the star, then used a digital caliper with the distance locked to scribe the 5 marks around the perimeter. The head is rotated on the jig using the pointer to get my 5 sides.

SST-50s and reflectors cost $50. I thought that was a great package deal. 

This is more of a learning process than anything else for me.


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## Hoop (Jan 31, 2012)

Good choice on the SST-50 imo. XML's have nasty green tint that people fail to mention. SST's are quality in comparison.


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## Curdog92 (Feb 1, 2012)

Little more progress... I gave up on creating a solid copper connection from one LED to the next in one fell swoop. Instead, I decided to create individual pads that can be placed more precisely. Once the pads secured in place with JB Weld, I'll solder a wire link from pad to pad, then encase all the copper in JB Weld. I milled some 10 ga copper wire into what I'll call "angle iron" type copper bar. The grooves cut into the heat sink are 2 mm deep, and 4 mm wide. The copper wire was milled to 2.5 x 2.5mm, then milled down to create the 0.7mm x 6.5mm LED +/- pads. 
















Way too much work going into this...but it's a fun learning process. I'm bound and determined to mount the LEDs as SMDs...would probably have finished by now had I went with stars


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## burro breath (Feb 1, 2012)

> Way too much work going into this...but it's a fun learning process. I'm bound and determined to mount the LEDs as SMDs...would probably have finished by now had I went with stars



if its worth doing it is worth overdoing. great work and cant wait for more


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## wquiles (Feb 1, 2012)

Curdog92 said:


> Way too much work going into this...but it's a fun learning process. I'm bound and determined to mount the LEDs as SMDs...would probably have finished by now had I went with stars


I can't begin to tell you how much I have learned by being "stubborn" and determined to make something work - way too many times 

Keep up the good work 

Will


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## Mettee (Feb 1, 2012)

Man that is some very cool work, cant wait to see more.


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## gt40 (Feb 1, 2012)

great use of jb weld...


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## Curdog92 (Feb 4, 2012)

Hopefully I'll have LEDs burning tomorrow. Got the +/- terminals completed.






Solder points created for jumper wire.






Hopefully later tonight I'll get the wires in, cover with JB Weld, cure overnight, then mount the LEDs and have 5 SST-50s burning tomorrow!


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## mikesantor (Feb 4, 2012)

Mettee said:


> Man that is some very cool work, cant wait to see more.



I could not say it any better. I dont watch many build threads on cpf but this is good. Great job my friend.


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## Curdog92 (Feb 5, 2012)

Here's everything wired up. I removed the wires in the thru-hole and replaced with solder pads (forgot that I'll have this on a stove--would have melted.)






And the final product, with continuity checked, awaiting LEDs. Now I'll be watching the superbowl wishing I was mounting my LEDs 






Thanks for all the positive comments.


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## The_bad_Frag (Feb 5, 2012)

Wow that looks awesome.


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## FRITZHID (Feb 6, 2012)

that is some beautiful workmanship and ingenuity, i can't wait to see the finished product. something like this is more a work of art than anything else, and should be appreciated as such. functional art is always a plus in my book. does a job but is nice to look at and appreciate the work that went into it.  kudos.


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## Curdog92 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words. I did a test heating run on the stove with a grill temperature guage inserted into a newly pressed copper core in the center (to be temporarily used for the purpose of monitoring temp.) I turned off the burner at 200 C but the temp kept rising to about 250 C, enough to boil solder out of the JB Weld. I'm thinking this would may have fried the LEDs. Looks like I will have to invest in a contact temperature probe for my multimeter. 






With a nudge from a spoon, these solder beads rolled off leaving no visible signs of where they came from (not even a pinhole.) Had I not seen them appear first hand, I would have no idea where they came from.


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## easilyled (Feb 6, 2012)

Looks like it will conduct heat away from the SST50s pretty well then!


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## pavithra_uk (Feb 6, 2012)

A new way to high performance flashlight heat sink design.

thats very rugged design


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## CKOD (Feb 6, 2012)

Nice test run! Are you going to tin the pads with solder, or do you have solder paste to use? Either should work fine. If you can get a handle on the overshoot that you'll get with the stove, then you should be able to solder it easily. I.E. heat it to ~100 C, let it get a steady state, place your LEDs, then turn up the burner, let it rise to ~150C (or whatever you determine is good), then turn down/off the burner, and let it overshoot to 200C and reflow the solder in the process.


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## Curdog92 (Feb 6, 2012)

Yes, I do have solder paste...and now I have a K-type thermocouple for my multimeter after my experience with the grill thermometer. One thing the picture does not show very well is that several bubbles formed in the JB Weld over solder joints in other areas--not where the beads formed. After confirming that I still had continuity, I was still concerned over the bubbles. I used a dremel to get the JB Weld out around the solder joints and found air pockets! Makes sense--air expanded with the heat--my theory is that the expanding air pushed solder out of three joints, and just created bubble like bulges in the JB Weld on a couple of the others. I refilled the holes being very careful to ensure no air pockets remained. Hopefully after an overnight cure, I can re-test tonight with a much slower ramp up in temperature to keep from overshooting so badly.


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## Curdog92 (Feb 7, 2012)

Made a bonehead move tonight...see anything wrong with this picture???







I guess "4 outta 5 ain't bad?" 






Talk about feeling like an idiot!


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## FRITZHID (Feb 7, 2012)

sorry bro. sh!t happens, you'll get it fixed. we all make mistakes.:hairpull:


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## pavithra_uk (Feb 7, 2012)

Curdog92 said:


> Made a bonehead move tonight...see anything wrong with this picture???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



oh 1 LED in wrong polarity.


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## Curdog92 (Feb 7, 2012)

Between these two options, what would you guys do? 

1) reheat and reflow the one LED (which means they all take a heat beating), or 
2) dremel out the JB Weld, then cut the leads and cross them over each other

How many trips to 217C can an LED take?


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## FRITZHID (Feb 7, 2012)

well.... i'm not gonna claim to be an expert on LEDs but i'd hazard a guess to say they could take 1 more trip to that temp... i've re-flowed LEDs 4-5x before failure so i think they can take it. you may want to pre-heat or even supplementary heat that side with a small torch so it heats faster saving the rest from totally heating.:thinking::shrug:


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## CKOD (Feb 7, 2012)

+1, reflow it and fix the led. If you dont have a flux pen to add more flux, I'd consider one to make sure its a solid connection when you place the led back down.


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## Curdog92 (Feb 7, 2012)

Thanks for the advice...reflow completed. Finally done with getting the LEDs like I want them. I guess I'll work on heat management now. Driving at 5A, it took 5 min/40 sec to go from 24C to 50C. Using ceiling bounce for comparison, it's noticeably brighter than a Jetbeam 3-XML, but much more floody. I was hoping to create something with more throw than what I achieved with these reflectors. So, now I'm on a search for better reflectors! Any recommendations? This setup will handle reflectors up to 32mm in diameter.


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## CKOD (Feb 8, 2012)

If you can find them, Carclo 10391 plain tight 26.5mm optic might give you more throw. With an SST-90, it gave me a 14 degree beam(if I remember right and if I did the math right, I'll measure again if I get a chance). The SST-50 will be smaller. with it focused you'll get a square projection of each die, with your multiple dies you might want to defocus it a tad. They will have next to no spill at all though.


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## Curdog92 (Feb 15, 2012)

Thank you CKOD! After trying multiple options, some SST-50 specific, some not, the Carclo 10391s were exactly what I was looking for. They turned this massive 5000+ lumen flood light into somewhat of a thrower. Here's a few pics to update the progress:

Carclo's sitting directly on the dies...





The entire gang of misfits...






Jetbeam RRT3-XML at 1950 lumens for ceiling beamshot comparison...





Ledil spot reflector for SST-50. Jetbeam on right, Quin SST-50 left.





Olight 20mm reflectors bored to fit SST-50 dome.





And finally...success with the Carclo's. Killer hotspot, can't wait to get these mounted up and get outside.





I'm not real proficient with the camera on anything other than auto. The beamshots don't do the first two pictures justice as to the floody nature of what's on my ceiling. I think the hot spot of the Jetbeam becomes the focus making the floodiness of the Quin-50 much less visible. The Carclo beamshot does capture what I'm seeing accurately...two great hot spots, one much larger than the other.

I've still got alot of work to do on heat management. I ran this at 5A for about 10 minutes while swapping reflectors, taking pictures, etc. The head reached 73 C, lots of room for improvement there. 

This leads me to a question for the pros on this forum... With a variable power supply, I am essentially running these direct drive/constant current/constant amperage, no PWM/no duty cycles. Does the H6Flex use PWM or a frequency/duty cycle that will relieve some of this burden and possibly lower my operating temperature?

Thanks again for all the input...especially CKOD...those Carclos are awesome!


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## mikesantor (Feb 15, 2012)

Most bad *** "first build ever"s?


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## Curdog92 (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks Mike. 

On the H6Flex, I have read the documentation/technical info, and understand that it uses PWM in low mode. I couldn't find any information when running at the higher amperage (like 5 Amps).


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## CKOD (Feb 16, 2012)

You did get the holders to go with the Carclo optics right?  makes mounting so much easier, as you cant glue/epoxy to the conical surface as it spoils the internal refraction. 

And IIRC the H6 flex adjusts the current from 1-6A, but for outputs under 1A, its a 1A signal PWMed to get an average current for < 1A, to comply with the Luminus tech note that some 50's/90's may not function with < 1A currents. Ive never seen a LED that wont barely illuminate with tiny currents (including the -90's and -50s ive handled), but perhaps its analogous with the "minimum lasing current" for laser diodes.


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## Curdog92 (Feb 16, 2012)

Oh....now you mention the holders! haha After seeing the notches in the optics, I looked them up and ordered today. I also ordered the 30mm Carclo's optics with holders to give them a test run. 

Your note about internal refraction made something click that I couldn't explain. I made temporary standoffs out of aluminum tubing to get better focus and found that I had a very bluish tint around the edge. This picture is with 4 of the 5 LEDs covered so I could get the right distance for focus. Do you think that bluish tint was a result of the optic sitting on the aluminum tubing? I chamfered an inward edge on the tubing so that the optic fit nicely and make a good seated contact (for what I thought would be gluing at the time.) With the optics sitting directly on the LEDs, there was no blue tint around the edges, but no focus either. Makes sense that the contact with the aluminum might possibly interfere with refraction.


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## CKOD (Feb 16, 2012)

nope, the bluish tint around the edges is normal, on mine with the holder, I have the exact same sort of projection from the die, if I defocus it just a touch, the lines across the die blur, and the blue edge isnt as harsh. 
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/CKOD/lights/47cbbf5f.jpg

[email protected] 6A vs 3C mag with mag LED drop in (K2 iirc) 

in this light 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/CKOD/lights/1e8fdf3a.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/CKOD/lights/f4352bd4.jpg glow mod, around the holder, not touching the optic at all.


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## Curdog92 (Feb 16, 2012)

OK, thanks. I appreciate the input! Nice mag...where did you get the GITD ring?


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## CKOD (Feb 17, 2012)

its just epoxy and GITD powder mixed up, and laid in between the holder, and the reflector that i was using as a filler ring with a dispensing syringe. http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/CKOD/lights/38bb6b37.jpg the backside of the reflector and the holder, sits on top of the britelumens heatsink http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/CKOD/lights/4bd2d36d.jpg


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## Curdog92 (Feb 17, 2012)

I see. Thanks again. I think I will start a Mag mod to have something to work on while I'm waiting on parts for this project. (I'm getting alot of spare parts to work with as you can see in the pics.)

I do have a question regarding batteries. With a H6Flex, what battery setup would be recommended assuming the following: 1) batteries used will be protected 18650s (such as AW 3100), 2) size of battery holder is not an issue, 3) configuration (whether S/P) is not an issue (ie, I'll figure out how to make it happen both physically/mechanically), 4) the light will be primarily ran at 1.4A, 2.8A, with a 5A turbo mode when necessary, and 5) looking for a run time of at least 2 hours at 2.8A, hopefully more. 

I am thinking 10 batteries (5S2P) would give me 2 hrs, or 15 batteries (5S3P) would give me 3 hrs. 

Bad idea? (I take criticism well, so if this is crazy/dumb/stupid, feel free to laugh and let me know.)

Thanks!


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## Microa (Feb 17, 2012)

The configuration in 5S may not be possible to keep the drive current regulated in the whole run time. You should consider 6S2P.


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## Microa (Feb 17, 2012)

Sorry, I have just checked that the input operating voltage range of H6flex is 7-21V. 5S is the upper limit.


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## moderator007 (Feb 17, 2012)

Curdog92 said:


> I am thinking 10 batteries (5S2P) would give me 2 hrs, or 15 batteries (5S3P) would give me 3 hrs.


This seems to be a pretty close estimate to me. I agree with what Microa said in his first post above. The driver may not stay in full regulation at 2.8 amps. This maybe fine for you. It depends alot on the forward voltage of the led at 2.8 amps. Battery sag may also play a big part in staying in regulation. There's a better chance of it staying in regulation with the 5S3P pack as the more batteries in parallel the less voltage sag you will have. The current would divide out between the paralleled batteries. I have never used the driver so I can't be sure. Just reading the specs of led and driver and making a calculated guess.


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## Epsilon (Feb 18, 2012)

When you are thinking of 5s3p, then you might want to look into dedicated Lipo packs, used in the RC world. It will be cheaper option, but also much easier. You have to buy a hobby charger obviously


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## Curdog92 (Feb 18, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. I will certainly look into that as an option. I have a 10A/30V variable power supply that has over-current and over-voltate settings that I regularly use to charge batteries. 

I don't have any beamshots, but I'm still not where I want to be with throw on this project (even with the Carclo's that seem to do very well as far as ceiling bounce.) I doubt I'll be able to top the Carclo optics, but I have one more set of reflectors enroute from DX that should arrive in a week or 10 days to try.


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## cmacclel (Feb 18, 2012)

Curdog92 said:


> Thanks for the advice. I will certainly look into that as an option. I have a 10A/30V variable power supply that has over-current and over-voltate settings that I regularly use to charge batteries.
> 
> I don't have any beamshots, but I'm still not where I want to be with throw on this project (even with the Carclo's that seem to do very well as far as ceiling bounce.) I doubt I'll be able to top the Carclo optics, but I have one more set of reflectors enroute from DX that should arrive in a week or 10 days to try.




If you wanted throw you should of went with a single LED and large reflector. SST-50's where never throwers due to their large die.

Mac


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## Curdog92 (Feb 19, 2012)

Yeah, I'm kinda figuring that out the hard way  I thought with the much more defined ceiling hotspot, I would have better throw once outdoors, but I don't think it worked out that way...although it's hard to tell in the back yard. I need to get it out where I can really see how far it throws. Now, I'm limited to how far my extension cord/power supply will reach.

Can you guys explain what it means to lose "full regulation"? For example, if my theoretical output is 2.8A at 17.2V, and my batteries sag below 18.2V (H6Flex must have 1V of headroom for regulation), what happens? If current regulation is lost, would it then become direct drive...with as many amps as can be delivered from batteries at that point? 

Another question, why does the voltage drop when the heat sink heats up? At room temperature, with current limited to 5A, the power supply delivers 17.8V. This drops to 17.2V when the head heats up to about 50C. With the current limited to 2.8A, the Voltage starts at 17.2, and drops to 16.8 at 50C. I am using very short leads (about 18 inches) and I think it's 10 or 12 ga stranded copper wire. Either case should be minimal loss in the leads.


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## Epsilon (Feb 19, 2012)

Thats with all semiconductors: The resistance drops when the temperature increases. If you look at datasheets of the leds, you can see a graph that sets out Vf vs temperature. So that's normal operation .

About the direct drive bit, you should check the datasheet of the driver. It might be direct drive, but that's not certain .

That is what causes "thermal runaway": How hotter it get, how more current it will take from the batteries. If you use batteries with low voltage sag, they will deliver far more current than the LED can handle, thus killing the LED.


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## Walterk (Jul 5, 2012)

Love that heatsink, very nice job


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## thijsco19 (Jul 8, 2012)

Very nice build!!
How is your flashlight? Is it done yet? 
Cant wait for the beamshots.


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## SikaStag (Jul 16, 2012)

Have enjoyed following this thread. Now looking forward to seeing it through to completion. 
Congrats on an awesome first build.


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## Curdog92 (Jul 20, 2012)

Thanks for your interest. After going through several rounds of ordering, waiting, waiting, waiting on DX shipments to arrive, I now have enough reflector samples to start a flashlight farm. I became disgusted with numerous configurations that created "floody" outputs. I have an Olight SR90...I know I can't match that throw, but my standard is high when it comes to throw. I finally found a reflector that created what I felt was the best throw I could get out of this with my size limitation. The problem then became that they were about 4 mm to large to fit my placement of LEDs on the heatsink. After ruining several trying to trim 2mm from each side on an exact angle of 72 degrees, I finally figured out how to accomplish this on a mill. This photo depicts my dilemma...you can see how terrible the reflectors look trying to create this trim by hand using a disc sander. I am currently awaiting another order of reflectors from DX. Hopefully I can get this right, then offer up some beam shots.


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## Curdog92 (Jul 20, 2012)

In the meantime, I have continued to lurk here, while completing a couple of mag mods that I ended up giving away to friends. My only other creation from scratch that worked quite well is an IR thrower that I now use frequently with 1st Gen night vision. Although difficult to hold (night vision in one hand, IR light in the other), it works great out to about 200 yards with clear visibility. Will light up eyes at 300+ yds. The built in IR is only good out to about 50 yds, so this is a remarkable improvement. Build is quite simple, DX reflector, LED Engin LZ4-R400 10 Watt IR LED, 2 18650 batteries, direct drive. I haven't seen much interest in IR here, but would be glad to post more details if someone is interested. Here's a photo with SR90, RRT 3XML, and TK35 in comparison.


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## Hoop (Jul 20, 2012)

This build is always fresh in my mind Curdog. Keep up the good work. Also, you could use Ahorton aspherics in place of reflectors, as an alternative. I imagine you would handily beat the sr-90's throw with those. I have an sr-90 also by the way.


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## Gunner12 (Jul 23, 2012)

Amazing work. Looks really clean and all that copper should take heat away quickly.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jul 24, 2012)

Best "noob" thread ever! Awesome work, can't wait to see the final piece!


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