# Fenix L1D-CE Comparison Review



## UnknownVT (Feb 2, 2007)

The Fenix L1D CE is a very much anticipated light -
you're getting this review again due to the kind courtesy of 4sevens (http://Fenix-Store.com)

In a few days some of you may be looking at -






Size -




the new L1D-CE is bigger - in length and diameter than the well known L1T - but it's something I didn't notice until I had them side-by-side.

Heads -




The diameter is not quite as wide as the P1D-CE, and to confirm, the L1D-CE head does _NOT_ fit the L1T body.... however the tailcaps are interchangable.

*Turbo* Mode - the *brightest* setting on *Alkaline* AA-

vs. Fenix L1T on High - both on alkaline -







not surprisingly the new L1D-CE is significantly brighter than the L1T on High.

vs. Cree XR-E mod Fenix L1T on High - both on alkaline








vs. Fenix P1D-CE on High - primary CR123A







well, this is kind of expected - the L1D-CE on a single regular alkaline is not as brighter even in its Turbo mode than the fabulous P1D-CE - but then that's on a primary lithium CR123A - capable of delivering higher currents.

vs. Fenix L0D-CE on High - alkaline







The L0D-CE is a single AAA light and again not surprisingly on High it is not as bright as the L1D-CE's Turbo mode......

*Low* Mode - alkaline -

vs. Fenix L1T - both on Low and alkaline -







pretty comparable - so the L1D-CE has been given a practical low level - 
which is rated at 25 hours at that constant level - that's really good performance compared to the rated 10 hours of the L1T.

vs. Cree XR-E mod Fenix L1T - both on Low - alkaline







The Cree Mod L1T is brighter - but then its runtime would be closer to the rated 10 hours of the stock L1T - I definitiely prefer the longer runtime of the L1D-CE in low mode......

vs. Fenix P1D-CE on Low - primary CR123A







P1D-CE has a brighter Low level - and rated runtime of 21hrs vs. 25hrs of the L1D-CE 

vs. Fenix L0D-CE both on Low - alkaline







similar low levels - the rated runtimes of the L0D-CE on low is 8.5 hours whereas the L1D-CE low is rated 25 hours 
allowing for capacities for alkaline AA = 2,850mAH and AAA = 1,250mAh - 
the runtime ratio should be 2.28x theoretically - that means 
8.5hrs --> 19.4hrs on AA
or
25hrs --> 10.9hrs on AAA
so this simple extrapolation shows that the L1D-CE's regulated Low is more efficient than the the PWM low of the L0D-CE......

The L1D-CE on low shows a much more yellow-green tint than the other Crees P1D-CE, L0D-CE and the Cree mod L1T on thier respective Lows - which all tend toward cool/blue.

There s still a minimal dark halo on the L1D-CE - not as pronounced as the P1D-CE - but more than on the Cree mod L1T (stippled reflector) and the L0D-CE - reflector almost right up to the lens/dome........

This is a significant light - well deserving the attention and anticipation it has been getting on CPF........

When you get yours let us know what you think.


*TailCap* details Post #*23*
*Head wider* than L1T but tailcap the same Post #*25* 
*Current Draw* on alkaline + *Glitches* Post #*31* 
*Bezel/Reflector* part of head unscrews Post #*39* 
*Beam focus* by unscrewing bezel/reflector part of head - in Post #*68* 
*vs. Fenix L2D-CE* Post #*84* 
*Part 2* - 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable 14500 in Post #*92*
*Part 3* - "Practical" *Stairway* beamshots Post #*96*
*Part 4 - NiMH* Post #*102*
L1Dce NiMH Turbo *vs.* *Fenix L1T 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable* - Post #*107* 
*ReFocussed beamshot* comparison - Post #*116* 
*Refocussed Stairway* beamshots comparison - Post #*118*

Fenix L2D CE and L1D CE runtime graphs by *Chevrofreak*


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## paulr (Feb 2, 2007)

Thanks Vt! Can you test it with 3 volts in, to simulate an L2D CE? A side by side shot of L1D CE vs L0D CE at similar brightness levels (to compare the beam patterns) would also be nice.


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## Ralls (Feb 2, 2007)

Nice! Thanks a lot. Your comparison review on the L0D-CE pushed me over the edge and I ordered one a couple of days ago. Now I'm heavily considering the L1D-CE. This begs the question...

Do you work for Fenix???


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## Ralls (Feb 2, 2007)

Is the split ring attachment point like the L1T or is it more like the L0D-CE?


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## UnknownVT (Feb 2, 2007)

*paulr* wrote: _"Can you test it with 3 volts in, to simulate an L2D CE? "_

I actually have a L2D-CE to hand also due to the kind courtesy of 4sevens (http://Fenix-Store.com).

The heads and bodies are compatible/interchangeable, ie: the heads are the same - 

I was going to do the comparison on 2AA with the P1D-CE for the L2D-CE review - but when I take those beamshots I can post them here too......

*paulr* wrote: "_A side by side shot of L1D CE vs L0D CE at similar brightness levels (to compare the beam patterns) would also be nice."_

That shot is already there - 
look at the L1D-CE vs. Fenix L0D-CE both on Low - alkaline - 
the last set of beamshots.


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## adirondackdestroyer (Feb 2, 2007)

Thanks for the pics! I can't wait for mine to arrive!!! Is there a significant difference between high and turbo?


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## UnknownVT (Feb 2, 2007)

*adirondackdestroyer* wrote: _"Is there a significant difference between high and turbo?"_

According to the specs it's 90 lumens (Turbo) vs. 80 lumens (High)
so there's 10 lumens difference - 
but percentage wise it's 12.5%.

In isolation I'd be hard put to say Turbo was brighter.

BUT one can switch instantly from High to Turbo by twisting the head - when I do this, I can see an increase in brightness. 
Whether it's significant enough to make any practical difference, I think is up to each person.


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## paulr (Feb 2, 2007)

The user interface of the L1D/L2D just seems nuts to me and I think the sensible way to operate it is to just use the twist bezel to flip between turbo and low, and ignore the medium, high, and strobe/sos settings.

Woops, yeah, thanks re L0D vs L1D, somehow I didn't notice that. The lumen output is similar and the L1D just has that narrower, brighter hot spot?

Looking forward to the L2D vs P1D comparison, and to some runtime graphs when someone does them. These are new designs so the graphs will be informative.


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## daq (Feb 3, 2007)

Thank you very much Vincent. I appreciate the work you put into this.

Looking forward to the comparison of the L2D-CE with P1D-CE.

Dale


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## Oddjob (Feb 3, 2007)

Thanks Vincent. As always, your time and effort is much appreciated.


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## Glockstersharp (Feb 3, 2007)

Ralls said:


> Nice! Thanks a lot. Your comparison review on the L0D-CE pushed me over the edge and I ordered one a couple of days ago. Now I'm heavily considering the L1D-CE. This begs the question...
> 
> Do you work for Fenix???


 
What he said. Great comparison review. Your posts "forced" me to order the LOD CE, L1D CE and the L2D CE.:thumbsup:


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## Solstice (Feb 3, 2007)

The L1D-CE looks has nice features, but man, why do the Fenix lights keep getting bigger? (and more expensive)

While not likely to make a difference in many situations, I carry my EDC AA light in the slim pocket of my "tactical" wallet created by knuckleduster over at EDC forums. My Fenix MKII *just* fits in that pocket and is about the max size I could see comfortably carrying with me in a front pocket at all times. I fully plan on "downsizing" the MKII with the JetBeam C-LE which by all photo accounts is significantly SMALLER in all dimensions than the MKII. The MKII is pretty much exactly the same size as the Fenix L1P/L1T, so judging by the picts you posted, the L1D will seem like a veritable giant compared to the C-LE- I can't wait for some actually comparison picts.

I don't mean to be too hard on the L1D- the feature set does look nice (definately easier to use UI compared with the C-LE, plus no PWM). That said, the best light is the one you have with you, so for me, the C-LE will be my EDC Cree light unless it doesn't meet expectations or something even better comes along.

Actually, this review makes me more interested in the L2D CE, since that light is already more of a bag light that could double as an impact weapon if necessary. It would still be fairly compact as far as 2AA lights go and the higher voltage allows for much higher output on Turbo. I look forward to hearing what people think of the L2D.


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## paulr (Feb 3, 2007)

The CE's are about 6mm longer, maybe because the Cree radiation pattern needs a deeper reflector. I don't know why they're 1mm or so wider.

I think I agree about suddenly being interested in the L2D CE. The L1p was my favorite light for a long time but I gave it away last night after getting an L0D-CE which puts out about the same amount of lumens in a light a third of the size. I didn't edc the L1p but brought it along when I needed something more powerful than an Arc AAA. But the L1D-CE is not more powerful than the L0D CE by enough margin to make me really want both. Its main attraction is using AA's since I have lots of those. But I may as well use the L2D then since I'm already dealing with extra size. The L2D should work quite a bit better on alkalines than the L1D since the current draw should be half for the same wattage. 

VT, I have a weird pic request, if you have a way to take two separate pics with the same exposure settings. I'd like a pic of "high" mode for either the L1D or L2D, alongside a pic of SOS mode in the "on" phase. Basically I want to know whether SOS uses high or turbo brightness, since that should allow computing the runtime. I shouldn't really care about this since I think SOS mode is silly, but since it's there...


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## NetKidz (Feb 3, 2007)

paulr said:


> I don't know why they're 1mm or so wider.


To make more room for a CR123 tube? :naughty:


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## Knifemaster (Feb 3, 2007)

It's too big and it has too many modes. Give me something smaller with a high ( click) low (click) setting and I would be fine. It feels like fenix is moving backwards with it's lights too complicated, poor quality, too expensive:thumbsdow


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## LowTEC (Feb 3, 2007)

Great review, but I'm still waiting for a R123A adapter before I will get to own a L1D-CE. Let's hope the extra 1 mm helps to have a RCR123 in there


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## Lite_me (Feb 3, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> The new L1D-CE is bigger - in length and diameter than the well known L1T - but it's something I didn't notice until I had them side-by-side.
> 
> *and*
> 
> The diameter is not quite as wide as the P1D-CE, and to confirm, the L1D-CE head does _NOT_ fit the L1T body.... however the tailcaps are interchangable.



Thanks VT...for everything.... but I have a question.

If the L1D body is bigger than the L1T, (which you can see in the pic) and you can't swap heads, how is it that the tailcaps are interchangeable? If the L1D barrel is just threaded down to fit, you'd still think the OD's wouldn't match up?


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## daveman (Feb 3, 2007)

Flawless beamshots, VT. 

@Fenix: Don't be fooled by some of the baseless critiques a few individuals have put up here. As you will soon find out from your sales numbers, the L1D CE user interface is absolutely brilliant; it allows control of multiple outputs at the twist of our fingertips. Most of the naysayers are probably just envious of your UI design and want to throw you off the track. Stay the course!


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## LowBat (Feb 3, 2007)

Thanks for your review Vincent.


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## Ralls (Feb 3, 2007)

I just pulled the trigger and ordered one!!! It'll make a nice addition to my L0D-CE.


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## nightstalker101 (Feb 3, 2007)

In General Mode, which comes first, low or high?


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## TORCH_BOY (Feb 3, 2007)

Great review, 
I can't wait to get mine, its going to replace the L1T in my kit


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## UnknownVT (Feb 3, 2007)

*Ralls* wrote: _"Is the split ring attachment point like the L1T or is it more like the L0D-CE?"_

Neither - although there is some minimal resemblance to both.

There are two holes fairly wide apart - and a crescent cut out between.

Black flashlights do not photograph well -
but here's a crop from the size photo (above) - 
which hoprfully may help illustrate my word description -


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## UnknownVT (Feb 3, 2007)

*Ralls* wrote: _"Do you work for Fenix???"_

I'm sure there's nothing meant by this -
but I _should_ really resent that remark.

I have no affliation with Fenix - 
I haven't even e-mailed them - 
which is probably unusual for a CPF'er.

My connection - which is declared on every review - is through 4sevens -who is a friend - 
and to make it absolutely clear I have _NO_ commercial or financial affliation with 4sevens or the Fenix-Store.

Happy now? 
I can say anything I want about Fenix products - 
and if you take the time to actually read my reviews, I have not tried to hide or minimize any faults I have seen - like the much criticized Cree dark halo.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 3, 2007)

*Lite_me* wrote: _"If the L1D body is bigger than the L1T, (which you can see in the pic) and you can't swap heads, how is it that the tailcaps are interchangeable? If the L1D barrel is just threaded down to fit, you'd still think the OD's wouldn't match up?"_

The outter-diameter (OD) is _NOT_ uniform on the L1D-CE. 
Please look more carefully at the size photo above - 
the head has a wider diameter than the tail - 
it helps to look comparing with the L1T which is right next to the L1D-CE in the photo (there is some method to my madness)

You have to look carefully at these side-by-side photos comparing the body tube ends at the head and the tail with the L1T - to see the difference -

Head ....................................................... Tail


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## BentHeadTX (Feb 3, 2007)

A great review with beamshots that tell the story well. :thumbsup:

Mine has been shipped and will be used with NiMH exclusively which leads to the question; runtime on NiMH much better than alkaline and by how much? I am assuming the runtime that Fenix states are based on NiMH? I don't see an alkaline having the guts to push "turbo" for 90 minutes. Figure the light is pulling an amp when operating in turbo and alkies really don't like that :green: 

Any way you could get a current reading from the L1D CE in its various modes? Thanks again for the great review and you just made my wait for the light tougher.


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## Ralls (Feb 3, 2007)

*UnknownVT *wrote: _"I'm sure there's nothing meant by this -_
_but I should really resent that remark._

_I have no affliation with Fenix - _
_I haven't even e-mailed them - _
_which is probably unusual for a CPF'er._

_My connection - which is declared on every review - is through 4sevens -who is a friend - _
_and to make it absolutely clear I have NO commercial or financial affliation with 4sevens or the Fenix-Store._

_Happy now? _
_I can say anything I want about Fenix products - _
_and if you take the time to actually read my reviews, I have not tried to hide or minimize any faults I have seen - like the much criticized Cree dark halo."_

I was indeed kidding and should have indicated so with the appropriate emoticon. Sorry. I really do like your thorough and timely reviews. No disrespect intended. Thanks for the answer to my question about the tailcap.


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## ackbar (Feb 3, 2007)

I can't wait until you review the L2D CE.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK!


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## WildChild (Feb 3, 2007)

2 questions! Is strobe at the same level as Turbo? What is the light level of the SOS mode? Is it faster than P1D/L0D?

Thanks


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## LightScene (Feb 3, 2007)

Fabulous review. Thanks for the tons of work and thought that went into it.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 3, 2007)

*BentHeadTX* wrote: _"Any way you could get a current reading from the L1D CE in its various modes? "_

Curent draw at the tail -

Alkaline 1.487(starting) -1.410V (end of readings) open-circuit -

Low = 0.11-0.15A
Medium = 0.87A
High = 1.13 - 1.17A
Turbo = 1.27A

NiMH 1.361(starting) - 1.318V (end of readings) open-circuit -

Low = 0.13A
Medium = 0.86A
High = 1.19A
Turbo = 1.26A

*WildChild* wrote: _"Is strobe at the same level as Turbo? What is the light level of the SOS mode? Is it faster than P1D/L0D?"_

The strobe looks like the same level as the Turbo.

The SOS on the L1D-CE seemed paced faster than the P1D-CE and L0D-CE - also the gap between sets is now only about 3 seconds.

There are a couple of "glitches" that I've caught - and I have checked with another sample -

On turning on the light in general mode to the default/initial Low - there seems to be a very quick flash of high or turbo level - it's quick enough that I can't be sure of the level - but I am sure it's brighter than the eventual low level.

SOS - when SOS mode is entered there seems to an initial one or two pulses - before the light starts with the first 3 pulses for Morse code "S" - this only occurs when first entering the SOS mode - those first two additional initial pulses seem slightly "different" (I can't pin-point why) - but one could mistake the very first character as 5 pulses (that's "5" in Morse code)

Morse Code at Wikipedia


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## FlashSpyJ (Feb 3, 2007)

Thanks alot! my light is coming next week, and now I just might not get any sleep untill it arrives 

Thanks for the great review!


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## WildChild (Feb 3, 2007)

_The strobe looks like the same level as the Turbo._

Great!


_The SOS on the L1D-CE seemed paced faster than the P1D-CE and L0D-CE - also the gap between sets is now only about 3 seconds. _

Another great news! The signal should be less difficult to miss. The 10 secs between each blocs was too much on P1D/L0D


_There are a couple of "glitches" that I've caught - and I have checked with another sample -

On turning on the light in general mode to the default/initial Low - there seems to be a very quick flash of high or turbo level - it's quick enough that I can't be sure of the level - but I am sure it's brighter than the eventual low level._

I guess it's probably high. The L0D has the same glitch sometimes and the L0P SE I had, had the same glitch.


_SOS - when SOS mode is entered there seems to an initial one or two pulses - before the light starts with the first 3 pulses for Morse code "S" - this only occurs when first entering the SOS mode - those first two additional initial pulses seem slightly "different" (I can't pin-point why) - but one could mistake the very first character as 5 pulses (that's "5" in Morse code)_

Is it only in the 1st bloc or in every subsequent blocs? If it's only in the 1st I think it shouldn't be a problem. The L0D I have has some kind of equivalent glitch when I enter in the SOS mode, a fast pulse appears in the first S code and only 2 dot pulses are made after. Every next blocks are OK. This glitch does not always appear.

Overall they are probably not big glitches! I hope to receive my L2D fast!


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## WildChild (Feb 3, 2007)

Oh and what about the brightness of the SOS mode? High or lower?


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## TigerhawkT3 (Feb 3, 2007)

I read in this thread that a 14500 Li-Ion will make all the modes the same brightness. Can you confirm/deny that, please?


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## john2551 (Feb 4, 2007)

Vincent,

Using a 3.7v li-ion in both the L1D-CE vs the P1D-CE, which one was brighter on the highest mode (turbo)?

Thanks,

John


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## BentHeadTX (Feb 4, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> *BentHeadTX* wrote: _"Any way you could get a current reading from the L1D CE in its various modes? "_
> 
> Curent draw at the tail -
> 
> ...



Thanks Unknown,
The life of an alkaline at 1.27 amps will be short indeed! Good thing I can kick down the levels if I ever need to run alkies in a pinch. Received a shipping notice on mine so I had better get off my butt and order some Eneloops to feed the light. 
Good to hear the strobe is at "turbo" brightness, I'll be using mine as a bicycle helmet light in turbo mode. A quick press on the switch and the strobe will wake up drivers if the max brightness won't. Great review!


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## UnknownVT (Feb 4, 2007)

*TigerhawkT3* wrote: _"I read in __this thread__ that a 14500 Li-Ion will make all the modes the same brightness. Can you confirm/deny that, please?"_

*john2551* wrote: _"Using a 3.7v li-ion in both the L1D-CE vs the P1D-CE, which one was brighter on the highest mode (turbo)?"_

I'm getting hold of 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 14500 soon so will be able to say something then.

However the Fenix P1D-CE (link) I reviewed using 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable RCR123 had its 3 levels the same (extra bright) until the battery was use a bit then it did drop into regulated mode - so there was then a difference in the levels.

The explanation for this was the initial voltage of the 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable exceeded the Vout set for the step-up circuit (= Vf of LED) so the light was in effect in driect-drive - until the battery voltage drops to below the Vf and regulation kicks in.

If I were to hazard a guess I think the L1D-CE would probably work the same way - but this is a _GUESS_ on my part only.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 4, 2007)

This is good news......








yes?............


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## BentHeadTX (Feb 4, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> This is good news......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lantern Mode! 
Very good news and added versitility... now all we need is a turbo head and 2AA bodies for a throw monster (can't have it all) Now for the Q3 and Q4 emitters to show up since the light is easy to mod.


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## whc (Feb 4, 2007)

How is the user interface?

I mean, you turn it on and what mode is it on? And will it remember the last mode used, or do you have do go through all the modes by turning the head or clicking the switch, to get to high or turbo???

I really hope I will remember the last mode used, if you have to go through the modes every time you turn it on, I will defiantly not buy one, I can't stand that kind of operation.

Nice review by the way ...


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## ackbar (Feb 4, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> This is good news......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was wondering what that gap in the head was. Quick! Someone design a turbo head


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## paulr (Feb 4, 2007)

If you have it strobing and turn that off, do you really want it strobing again when you turn it back on? I wouldn't.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 4, 2007)

*whc* wrote: _"How is the user interface?_
_I mean, you turn it on and what mode is it on? And will it remember the last mode used, or do you have do go through all the modes by turning the head or clicking the switch, to get to high or turbo???"_

I think the UI (user interface) is very good -

When the head is screwed down - the light is in Turbo mode - 
switching on the light (from cold) always goes to the default Turbo (highest) brightness. 
Turning off the light and turning it on again within 1.5secs (or simply tapping the tail-switch) gets the strobe mode - 
it cycles between these two modes.

Head slightly unscrewed (most of CPF?



) - the light is in General mode - 
turning on the light (from cold) always gets the default lowest level.
Off then On within 1.5secs (or tap the tail-switch) gets the Medium level.
Next tap -> High
next Tap -> SOS
cycles through these 4 modes.

Note: "cold" start - means the light is turned on when it has been off for at least 2 seconds.

In any mode if one twists the head to get to the other set of modes - eg: on say SOS - twisting the head down will get the default Turbo brightest setting.

Or say in Strobe - un-twisting the head will get the default lowest level.

So the light can be used as Lowest - twist head to Turbo brightest - twist head back to lowest - much like the L1T/L2T (tapping the tail-switch gets other modes)

To compare the High in general mode with Turbo - I set the light to High (turn on in general mode, tap twice) then twist the head to get Turbo brightest setting. So I can see if there is any difference going from High (immediately) to Turbo. It does not work the otherway round - untwisting the head from Turbo brightest setting goes to the default Lowest setting and one has to tap twice to get the High again.


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## paulr (Feb 4, 2007)

What do you by "tap" the button? Is it a clickie, that breaks the contact when you click it? So does tap mean click twice?


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## WildChild (Feb 4, 2007)

Reverse clicky, only pressing gently without the click breaks the contact.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 4, 2007)

*paulr* wrote: _"What do you by "tap" the button? Is it a clickie, that breaks the contact when you click it? So does tap mean click twice?"_

Fenix uses reverse clickies - which means it has a momentary OFF.

So turning on any Fenix light (with reverse clicky) one can lightly press the tail-switch (without click) to get OFF as long as the light pressure is held. 
Tapping the switch when the light is ON, gives literally a momentary OFF - which is great for switching modes....... that's why I think the UI is very good.

I never thought I'd be saying good things about a reverse clicky.


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## paulr (Feb 4, 2007)

Sounds like they should really cut the "tap" time down from 1.5 (or is it 2) seconds, down to maybe 0.25 seconds, so you really would just tap the button to switch modes. It sounds like a huge pain in the neck to me that you can light something up with turbo mode, look at it for a while, then shut off the light, then realize a moment later that you're really not finished so you try to turn the light back on but instead it starts strobing. As mentioned earlier that's already happened to me with my L0D CE.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 4, 2007)

*paulr* wrote: _"Sounds like they should really cut the "tap" time down from 1.5 (or is it 2) seconds, down to maybe 0.25 seconds, so you really would just tap the button to switch modes. It sounds like a huge pain in the neck to me that you can light something up with turbo mode, look at it for a while, then shut off the light, then realize a moment later that you're really not finished so you try to turn the light back on but instead it starts strobing. As mentioned earlier that's already happened to me with my L0D CE."_

I think 
all things considering and getting things in perspective -

the UI on the L1D-CE is very good considering it operates on just one button and a twist of its head.

Although cutting down on the time between switching may seem OK - that may be a detriment for anyone who prefers to use the full OFF/ON cycle with clicks.

and even when I agree with you about the "inconvenience" of getting the strobe mode when one changes one's mind switching the light back on - 
for me, although it's obviously not impossible - but pretty rare, 
and anyway, with the L1D/L2D-CE - this is remedied by a simple quick tap of the tail-switch to change the mode back to Turbo brightest level..... 
different, and a lot more convenient than the twisty L0D-CE


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## paulr (Feb 4, 2007)

It might be rare to trigger the strobe mode accidentally, but I think it's also rare to trigger the strobe mode on purpose. So triggering it accidentally probably happens at least as often as triggering it on purpose. If the UI leads to doing the wrong thing more often than the right thing, that is a sign that it needs improvement.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 4, 2007)

*paulr* wrote: _"It might be rare to trigger the strobe mode accidentally, but I think it's also rare to trigger the strobe mode on purpose. So triggering it accidentally probably happens at least as often as triggering it on purpose. If the UI leads to doing the wrong thing more often than the right thing, that is a sign that it needs improvement."_

This is a fair comment - and improvements are always desireable -
to get to a "perfect" flashlight........

BTW - how many of those do we personally know?

I just think Fenix has done a pretty good job on the L1D-CE - 
yes, it has its faults -
but accidental (and rare) strobe mode - 
just would not be anywhere near a deal breaker for me.

Now if Fenix or anyone else claimed the L1D-CE is a "perfect" light - 
I'd be one of the first to chime in with this fault - 

but I would also understand if others are likely to laugh at me....


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## WildChild (Feb 4, 2007)

UnknownVT, I ask it again!  What is the brightness level of the SOS mode? This the last question I have about this light.


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## WildChild (Feb 4, 2007)

Double post...


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## UnknownVT (Feb 4, 2007)

*WildChild *wrote: _"UnknownVT, I ask it again!



What is the brightness level of the SOS mode? This the last question I have about this light.



"_

I don't know -

it looks like High - 
I have NO means of measuring....


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## whc (Feb 4, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> I think the UI (user interface) is very good -
> 
> When the head is screwed down - the light is in Turbo mode -
> switching on the light (from cold) always goes to the default Turbo (highest) brightness.
> ...



Thank you wary much UnknownVT .

Wary nice I must say. Was afraid that it would be some thing like the P1D UI, but like you said it kind of reminds of the L1T, just with some more modes to chose from, but still with the simple tight/loos head solution, nice work Fenix, will defiantly get me one of these bad boys now ...


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## paulr (Feb 4, 2007)

The strobe mode is not a dealbreaker for me either but I see it as a significant flaw. I just can't imagine a LEO, military operator, security guard, or whatever, wanting to use a light with a UI like this. I can live with using it myself but that's because I'm just a lowly software geek and not in any of those professions that make more demanding use of flashlights. The very existence of the strobe mode makes the light seem less like a serious illumination tool and more like a james bond gadget advertised in the back of a comic book. 

Getting rid of the possibility of accidentally activating strobe mode would be very easy, by just eliminating strobe mode altogether. But at the very least, it should be moved to the other bezel position, so that the "turbo" position would not have other extraneous modes. So:
Position 1 - low - med - fast strobe - slow strobe - SOS
Position 2 - turbo and nothing but turbo
Note that I got rid of "high" since it seems completely redundant. I added a second strobe mode for those who like strobe modes but could do without it just as well.


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## ackbar (Feb 4, 2007)

UnknownVT: is the treads on the head side of the body anodized or bare like the LxT?


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## paulr (Feb 4, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> This is a fair comment - and improvements are always desireable -
> to get to a "perfect" flashlight........
> 
> BTW - how many of those do we personally know?
> ...


I would say the L1P was pretty close to perfect. It was one of the most popular lights on CPF last year and everyone loved it. Once Fenix had the L1P in its hands, they should not have needed a complex trial and error process to find perfection, since they already had it. The only thing they needed to do was put the XR-E or SSC P4 led into the L1P (with an appropriate reflector update) once the XR-E or SSC became available. This is what's driving me nuts about the whole situation. They were making a near-perfect light that was well established and praised, and they took it away from us in favor of this digi-nonsense. They even reintroduced the L2P but with the old led. I can't figure out why.

I actually find myself thinking of looking for a non-loctited L2P on BST and modding it with an SSC P4, as an alternative to buying the new computerized version.


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## paulr (Feb 4, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> This is a fair comment - and improvements are always desireable -
> to get to a "perfect" flashlight........
> 
> BTW - how many of those do we personally know?
> ...


I would say the L1P was pretty close to perfect. It was one of the most popular lights on CPF last year and everyone loved it. Once Fenix had the L1P in its hands, they should not have needed a complex trial and error process to find perfection, since they already had it. The only thing they needed to do was put the XR-E or SSC P4 led into the L1P (with an appropriate reflector update) once the XR-E or SSC became available. This is what's driving me nuts about the whole situation. They were making a near-perfect light that was well established and praised, and they took it away from us in favor of this digi-nonsense. They even reintroduced the L2P but with the old led. I can't figure out why.

I actually find myself thinking of looking for a non-loctited L2P on BST and modding it with an SSC P4, as an alternative to buying the new computerized version.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 4, 2007)

*paulr *wrote: _"The strobe mode is not a dealbreaker for me either but I see it as a significant flaw._
_But at the very least, it should be moved to the other bezel position, so that the "turbo" position would not have other extraneous modes. So:_
_Position 1 - low - med - fast strobe - slow strobe - SOS_
_Position 2 - turbo and nothing but turbo_
_Note that I got rid of "high" since it seems completely redundant. I added a second strobe mode for those who like strobe modes but could do without it just as well."_

Different strokes.....

Without meaning any disrepect or being argumentative -

I much prefer the L1D-CE as-is, over your new design - sorry.

The High mode, to me, is not redundant - 
Fenix claim it's regulated - it draws lower current and has a longer spec'd runtime..........

As always YMMV - 
and for me it's always interesting to read other people's input and opinions.


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## paulr (Feb 4, 2007)

I'm fine with the idea that some users like the new digital interface, just like some knife users prefer multi-tools to fixed blades.

What we've got is a situation as if some knife company (like CRK) makes really good fixed blades, making fixed blade users happy. Then they introduce a line of multi-tools, so now they have happy fixed blade users AND happy multi-tool users, the best of all possible worlds. But now they STOP MAKING FIXED BLADES. What's up with that? The customers are still out there wanting to buy fixed blades--why did they stop? There are users out there who don't want multi-tools.

Fenix seems willing to offer a lot of different models and configurations so I don't see why they can't just have a version of these digital lights, with firmware that removes the extraneous stuff. HDS did something like that, making the Basic series to get rid of the less useful features from the Ultimate series. 

Do you REALLY see any advantage to putting the strobe setting on the turbo menu instead of on the menu with all the other settings? If they simply reserved one of the two bezel settings for simple operation and moved all the complexity to the other setting, that would solve this problem.


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## curtis22 (Feb 4, 2007)

paulr said:


> Do you REALLY see any advantage to putting the strobe setting on the turbo menu instead of on the menu with all the other settings? If they simply reserved one of the two bezel settings for simple operation and moved all the complexity to the other setting, that would solve this problem.



There is no problem. The interface is fine. Posting the same thing over and and over is considered spam.


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## paulr (Feb 4, 2007)

Hi Curtis, VT asked me a question and I answered it. Then I asked him a question, that I don't remember asking before. CPF is a discussion forum and it's completely normal in a discussion to try to reconcile different points of view by sometimes revisiting the same issues from different angles. If you're not used to that, hang around longer and it will become more familiar to you.


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## LightScene (Feb 4, 2007)

I think the Fenix engineers are brilliant, and have designed a user interface for the L1D-CE which is essentially perfect.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 4, 2007)

*paulr* wrote: _"Do you REALLY see any advantage to putting the strobe setting on the turbo menu instead of on the menu with all the other settings?"_

Yes, even though I am not a "tactical" type person - then idea of having strobe as the next option after the brightest level makes sense - 
it's kind of like an esculation of a "dazzle" mode - not bright enough to dazzle - strobe 'em. 
I personally do not subscribe to the idea of using flashlight to dazzle/"blind" - but can appreciate the coupling......

However for my own personal use I would use Turbo to draw/attract attention - or highlight illumination - 
and if that doesn't do it - use strobe.

Like I said - different strokes.......

*LightScene* wrote: _"....have designed a user interface for the L1D-CE which is essentially perfect."_

It's very good, but not "perfect" -
citing paulr above one can accidentally engage the strobe (or the next mode) without meaning to - if one changes one's mind after switching off the light and switching it back on immediately (within 1.5 secs)......

There, paul - I used that very example to refute that the L1D-CE is "perfect".

Sorry, my apologies LightScene - this is done without meaning any personal disrespect to you - merely to demonstrate a point


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## paulr (Feb 4, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> Yes, even though I am not a "tactical" type person - then idea of having strobe as the next option after the brightest level makes sense -
> it's kind of like an esculation of a "dazzle" mode - not bright enough to dazzle - strobe 'em.
> I personally do not subscribe to the idea of using flashlight to dazzle/"blind" - but can appreciate the coupling......


Hmm, that is (to me) kind of an implausible theory but at least it's a theory. I wonder what any tactical users think of it. It wouldn't have occurred to me that the strobe was intended as a stunning or dazzling device rather than as a signal or marker. I'd also think that tactical users would far rather have a momentary pushbutton and normal clickie than any kind of multi-mode multi-click UI and reverse clickie. 



> However for my own personal use I would use Turbo to draw/attract attention - or highlight illumination - and if that doesn't do it - use strobe.


 Well ok, but that's more conventional use of the strobe as a signal, something you can select by stepping through the other menu since you're not postulating there's an epileptic assailant charging at you who you hope to dazzle with the strobe if only you can get it going within the next 0.3 seconds or whatever. The idea is that for such a rarely used function, it's ok to have to take a few moments activating it unless there's a powerful reason to need it accessible instantaneously.



> Sorry, my apologies LightScene - this is done without meaning any personal disrespect to you - merely to demonstrate a point


Same here, I don't mean any disrespect to anyone either.

Thanks, VT.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 5, 2007)

*paulr* wrote: _"Well ok, but that's more conventional use of the strobe as a signal, something you can select by stepping through the other menu since you're not postulating there's an epileptic assailant charging at you who you hope to dazzle with the strobe if only you can get it going within the next 0.3 seconds or whatever. The idea is that for such a rarely used function, it's ok to have to take a few moments activating it unless there's a powerful reason to need it accessible instantaneously."_

Of course one can always step through anything to get to any mode - 
but if I was highlighting something - like some kind of a hazard - eg: pot-hole and the person/vehicle does not seem to have taken notice - I do want to be able to immediately access the strobe to up the urgency......

Having to twist - tap- tap- to get to it (as in your suggested example) when I am trying to draw urgent attention is not going to help -
when I do _NOT_ have a problem with the strobe being the next mode in turbo and am quite happy to have it as-is - just my opinion.

However, having the light dealer programmable might well be a viable/valuable option/customization.......


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## UnknownVT (Feb 5, 2007)

I'm sure that it hasn't been lost on some - that since the bezel/refletor unscrews from the rest of the head/LED - means that one can "focus" the beam....

Since there is still a "dark halo" - I thought I'd give it a try.

Unscrewing the bezel/reflector does indeed re-focus the beam and one can more or less get rid of the dark halo. 

Instead of just before and after photos - I took those separately with varying exposures to try to get the best illustrative shots - then cropped a BEFORE (stock as-is) photo flipped it horizontally and merged it to the rightside of an AFTER (head re-focussed) photo so that one can compare the beams side-by-side.

Please remember this is a composite of 2 separate (Before and After) photos -





I also took a comparison with my Cree Mod Fenix L1T (McR stippled reflector)
this is a straight photo - 





These shots show that the head can be re-focussed to minimize the dark halo.


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## Mr. Blue (Feb 5, 2007)

can you explain the steps involved in focusing? are tools required?


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## wojtek_pl (Feb 5, 2007)

Again I'll say that Fenix should just put an SSC LED to their existing design of L1T/L2T and have brand new and very bright flashlight for (almost!) free !!!! 
These LxD series is all wrong to me. To complicated, while L1T/L2T interface is brilliant.
I think I'll buy another old style L2T and I'll put there an SSC P4... Or I'll wait for competition to make simple 2AA flashlight with SSC.


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## TORCH_BOY (Feb 5, 2007)

LightScene said:


> I think the Fenix engineers are brilliant, and have designed a user interface for the L1D-CE which is essentially perfect.



I am quite happy with the user interface with the L1D/L2D-CE, its straight forward, I hate having to twist to go through modes as with some of the other Fenix models


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## Byggeren (Feb 5, 2007)

paulr said:


> Do you REALLY see any advantage to putting the strobe setting on the turbo menu instead of on the menu with all the other settings? If they simply reserved one of the two bezel settings for simple operation and moved all the complexity to the other setting, that would solve this problem.



There must be some misunderstanding here.

The way I understand it the UI works like this with the head tight:

CLICK –> On –> CLICK –> Off

Wait for more than 2 second then

CLICK –> On –> CLICK –> Off

In other words, a non CPF member would probably never notice there are any other modes than on/off. Sounds like a quite simple UI to me


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## WildChild (Feb 5, 2007)

Byggeren said:


> There must be some misunderstanding here.
> 
> The way I understand it the UI works like this with the head tight:
> 
> ...



The UI is quite simple. Just not for too stressed people! If they are, they will get a nice strobe in their eyes to remind them to slow down a little bit and take their time to do things right.


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## 4sevens (Feb 5, 2007)

One quick note about the UI. Twisting the head gives the same effect as the L1T/L2T
not matter what mode you are in... Twisting the head gives you turbo and low.

Say you're in sos, you twist the head tight and you get turbo.
Or if you're in strobe, you untwist the head and you get low.

It's a quick way to get to turbo or low if you don't want to deal with the clicky at all.


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## redduck (Feb 5, 2007)

Is the light regulated in turbo mode?


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## 4sevens (Feb 5, 2007)

Vincent,

If I may, I'd like to add some current readings AT THE LED.
This is in no way an official specification from Fenix - it's just
one quick measurement of a single production unit. I other words,
take it for what it is 

I measured it through a simply multimeter - a better way would be
to use a sense resistor - but I just wanted to do quick readings 
to get a general idea the current regulation circuit.

NiMH (open V 1.1)
25ma low
133ma medium
235ma high
270ma turbo

Energizer e2 lithium (open V 1.6)
26ma low
138ma medium
310ma high
360ma turbo

2x Enegizer e2 Lithiums - L2D CE body (open V 3.1)
40ma low
146ma medium
356ma high
900ma turbo

 Please don't ask for more measurements with different cells - this is all I have
time for right now  Back to work for me....



redduck said:


> Is the light regulated in turbo mode?


I'm not sure that it is regulated on turbo - we'll find out when chevrofreak
does the runtime graphs. I suspect that the circuit is running wide open
so it's boosting as much as possible based on the V. We'll see.


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## BentHeadTX (Feb 5, 2007)

Here is the answer why you would have a mode that goes to max output followed by a strobe function (turbo mode) What LED device is #1 in sales for illumination that has that EXACT specific function? Think 10's of millions of them sold. 

Yep, the red LED flashers that are used by bicyclists, joggers and walkers around the world. My L1D CE will perform that function as a bicycle helmet light and will always be in turbo mode since the mount won't let me twist the head. A quick press on the tail switch will give me strobe in case a car is backing up and ignores my light blasting them. 

To me, the L1D CE has close to the perfect UI, twist the head for low/high and click it on/off. Pressing the switch gives other options but you don't have to use them. My FF3 is setup for low-medium-max-strobe-sos although I generally use it in low mode. I do have the option to reprogram it for low-medium-max, low-high, max-strobe or what I have it set for now. It takes some time to get used to but becomes a no-brainer after a day or two. 

To me, the perfect UI is a ring that allows variable output with several settings for strobe/SOS and programmable flash option for "find me" when camping. Figure that will become available in the next few years but at a considerably higher price. 

Thanks 4sevens for the current readings to the LED in the different modes :thumbsup: The NiMH reading looks like a dead battery with 1.1V open voltage though. I'll use a lithium to take a reading with a light meter then do the same with a charged NiMH. The light difference in percent will be extrapolated to determine current to the LED with NiMH. Really looking forward to the L1D CE arriving in the mail.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 5, 2007)

*Mr. Blue* wrote: _"can you explain the steps involved in focusing? are tools required?"_

Simply unscrew.....

No tools required - once you manage to unscrew the bezel/reflector part of the head - use either rubber bands or gloves for grip - then focussing is simply unscrewing and screwing (yes, I know that sounds kinda rude - but that's also your thinking.....



)


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## Mr. Blue (Feb 5, 2007)

I was thinking that!...how did you know?

if you posted pics I would be grateful...of the screwing /unscrewing (the bezel/reflector  )...

does the lens fit ok after focusing?


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## UnknownVT (Feb 5, 2007)

*Mr. Blue* wrote: _"if you posted pics I would be grateful...of the screwing /unscrewing (the bezel/reflector



)..._
_does the lens fit ok after focusing?"_

Post #*39* (link) in this thread.

Bezel/reflector part of th head fits fine - there is a thick O-ring - 
un-lubed makes the screwing stiff (! )


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## Lobo (Feb 5, 2007)

Man, very nice review. Thanks!


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## paulr (Feb 5, 2007)

BentHeadTX said:


> Here is the answer why you would have a mode that goes to max output followed by a strobe function (turbo mode) What LED device is #1 in sales for illumination that has that EXACT specific function? Think 10's of millions of them sold.
> 
> Yep, the red LED flashers that are used by bicyclists, joggers and walkers around the world. My L1D CE will perform that function as a bicycle helmet light and will always be in turbo mode since the mount won't let me twist the head.


 I don't see how the L1D CE can perform the red flasher function the same way, since it has a white led while the red flashers are, as you say, red. And the red flashers usually point backwards while I think vehicle codes typically don't allow white lights to point backwards unless they're backup lights. Also, the red flashers use multiple red leds pointing in different directions, covered by a diffusing lens, for maximum visibility from different angles, while the L1D CE has a carefully engineered reflector that directs most of the light in a narrow cone (the hot spot). In addition, the red flashers can usually run dozens of hours on a battery while the L1D CE uses a lot more power, but wastes most of the energy by concentrating it into that narrow cone mentioned earlier. Finally, strapping an L1D CE to your helmet may impair the helmet's safety function since its job is to protect your head from impact by spreading the energy from a crash into the (flat) pavement. If there's a hard cylindrical thing strapped to the helmet at the point of impact, that can concentrate the energy in one place and make you more susceptable to injury. Of course it's still better than nothing. But you're maybe safer attaching the light to your bike (as is typical for those red flashers) instead of to your helmet.

So we're back to the difference between a swiss-army-like multi-function gadget that does several things acceptably but nothing really well, versus a dedicated tool optimized for a single task. Someone like a hiker or traveller might want a SAK with its multiple functions, but someone like a sushi chef who spends 8 hours a day slicing up hunks of tuna is going to want a one-purpose fixed blade cooking knife, as they have zero interest in going camping or opening bottles with it. And someone like a security guard who uses a flashlight to look into the exact same series of rooms over and over during their nightly rounds doesn't care about strapping the flashlight to their bicycle helmet, so any functions geared towards that type of usage that get in the way of the main task are simply annoyances. Again, it's not just the flashlight functions, it's the user's applications, and users aren't all the same. So it's not so great to require us to all use a multi-function interface instead of an optimized one.

Arc LLC used to be on this quest for the one perfect flashlight that was right for everybody, a Zen notion that I never much believed in. But Fenix-store sells more than a dozen models of Fenix lights, so you'd think they could have some for the multi-function users and some for the single-function users, and we could take our choice. They do in fact have a new single-function light (the L2P v2.0) but it doesn't use the XR-E led for some reason I can't fathom, so it's no longer great in the sense of using the best available technology. Thus my observation: Fenix used to make lights (the L1p/L2p) that were great for single-purpose users, _but stopped_. Why, oh why, did they feel they had to stop?

I see the point of multi-functions in a small EDC like the L0D CE or P1D CE. Larger lights like the L2P should give more consideration to the single purpose user.


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## 9volt (Feb 5, 2007)

I did the refocusing and it worked great! The beam is still ringy but the donut is gone. I was able to unscrew it by hand, though it is tough.

Mine took between 1/4 and 1/2 turn to get it set. It is hella tough to turn and it feels jsut as secure as it was before. Refocsing + a textured reflector would probably give the light a very nice beam.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 5, 2007)

*UnknownVT* wrote: 
_"*paulr* wrote: "Can you test it with 3 volts in, to simulate an L2D CE? "_
_I actually have a L2D-CE to hand also due to the kind courtesy of 4sevens (__http://Fenix-Store.com__)._
_I was going to do the comparison on 2AA with the P1D-CE for the L2D-CE review - but when I take those beamshots I can post them here too......"_

vs. L2D-CE both on Turbo using Alkaline








The L2D-CE is noticably brighter - since there are 2x AA batteries to drive it.

Since the heads are the same - I changed them round and the relative difference remained about the same - 
ie: 2xAA is brighter than 1xAA -
Nevertheless, the performance on a single AA alkaline is remarkable.


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## daq (Feb 5, 2007)

Thanks for the L2D beamshot Vincent. 

Also, thanks for the tip to unscrew the reflector for adjusting the beam pattern.

I _really_ hope my L2D comes in the mail tomorrow. 
Dale


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## paulr (Feb 5, 2007)

Thanks, VT. I'm leaning again towards getting an L2D CE. It might even retire my TL3.


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## adirondackdestroyer (Feb 6, 2007)

Well I have my L1DCE on the way and it looks like I most likely will be ordering an L2DCE as long as the runtime graphs are similar to the specs.


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## TenPin (Feb 6, 2007)

The L1D is incredibly bright as it is and the fact that its only 1 cell and thus a really small light outweighs the extra 30 lumens or so that a larger light puts out.

Having said that I will buy the L2D tube and CR123 tube for my L1D.


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## 9volt (Feb 6, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> _I actually have a L2D-CE to hand also due to the kind courtesy of 4sevens (__http://Fenix-Store.com__)._



The Fenix-store specs state that the difference between High and Turbo on the L1D is +10 lumens and on the L2D it's +55 lumens. I can't see a visible difference between the two on my L1D. Is Turbo noticably brighter on the L2D?


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## BentHeadTX (Feb 6, 2007)

paulr said:


> I don't see how the L1D CE can perform the red flasher function the same way, since it has a white led while the red flashers are, as you say, red. And the red flashers usually point backwards while I think vehicle codes typically don't allow white lights to point backwards unless they're backup lights. Also, the red flashers use multiple red leds pointing in different directions, covered by a diffusing lens, for maximum visibility from different angles, while the L1D CE has a carefully engineered reflector that directs most of the light in a narrow cone (the hot spot). In addition, the red flashers can usually run dozens of hours on a battery while the L1D CE uses a lot more power, but wastes most of the energy by concentrating it into that narrow cone mentioned earlier. Finally, strapping an L1D CE to your helmet may impair the helmet's safety function since its job is to protect your head from impact by spreading the energy from a crash into the (flat) pavement. If there's a hard cylindrical thing strapped to the helmet at the point of impact, that can concentrate the energy in one place and make you more susceptable to injury. Of course it's still better than nothing. But you're maybe safer attaching the light to your bike (as is typical for those red flashers) instead of to your helmet.



You are correct, the L1D CE is to be pointed forward to follow code and common sense. The white light will light your way at night and stobe is to be used to "wake up" drivers that are not paying attention to something smaller than a SUV. It has enough punch to be using during the DAY in strobe function when traveling busy streets. Nothing like a strobe to add extra visibility and the ability to point it in the direction were the idiots are.  

I want the energy concentrated to a spot for maximum punch during the daytime hours and I want to point it via the helmet mount. Using it in strobe mode at night would probably fry my brain as I would have to look at the strobe. A quick strobe to signal my presence is enough and back to steady on for normal riding. Since I ride a recumbent bicycle, my handlebars are different as they rise up from besides my legs. The best option is mounting the light on a helmet for ease of switching in my case. 

As far as safety goes, my setup has no additional impact problems due to the mount. The light pivots on small plastic pins to aim it correctly and if I crash, the pins sheer off when the light gets hit and the helmet functions normally. Sure, the light ends up somewere on the street but at $50, not too hard to replace (along with a helmet, mount, mirror, carbon visor and rear LED flasher on the helmet) All bicycle helmet mounts have the plastic pin safety device to allow the light to seperate from the helmet when hit. Lume lighting sells a mount for $15 although you have to add a piece to it to mount the flashlight correctly. 

I use two red flashers, one mounted to my rear rack (10 LED Cateye LD1000) with the second Planet Bike 3 LED single AAA auto-leveling flasher mounted to the back of my helmet. Yes, the helmet flasher also pivots on plastic pins which will break off if the flasher gets hit. If I ever crash with my helmet, you will see a helmet light go one way, a flasher flying another, a carbon fiber visor and mirror going in another direction.  I do get comments on my helmet setup all the time BTW :green: 

Fenix will make a single level light with a Cree or SSC LED if there is enough demand. If not, there are all those other manufacturers that will. I did not see people rioting in the streets, babies crying or knashing of teeth when the two-level L1T replaced the L1P. The L1D CE is the same as the L1T (but a lower low and a much higher high) do not press on the switch and use it as a clickie on-off.


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## pae77 (Feb 6, 2007)

I'm hoping the L1D CE I ordered from the Fenix-Store will arrive here in Hawaii tomorrow. Great news about being able to easily focus it and I assume eventually change the reflector when a better one becomes available. 

One of the things that really attracted me to this light aside from the brightness on a single AA, was the flexibility it provides with all the available different levels and runtimes. I particularly like the available 20+ hours or so of runtime with a usable low setting which could be very useful in a disaster or survival situation or any situation where the power is out for an extended period. Just the kind of light I want to have on my travels in Third World countries. The interface sounds pretty darn nice to me.

With a light like an unmodded L1P, one would need many charged up batteries on hand to achieve that kind of runtime.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 6, 2007)

*Part 2* - *3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable 14500* (AA size)

Fenix L1D-CE on 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable 14500 - Turbo

vs. Fenix P1D-CE primary CR123A - High







The L1D-CE on 3.7V Li-Ion is defintitely brighter.

unfair... how about the P1D-CE also on 3.7V Li-Ion?

vs. Fenix P1D-CE 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable RCR123 - High







not surprisingly - pretty even.

vs. Fenix L2D-CE using 2x primary Lithium AA - Turbo







The L1D-CE is brighter.

Current draw -
3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable 14500
Open-circuit = 4.06V
Turbo = 0.69A
Low = 0.60A
Medium = 0.60A
High = 0.60A

Yes, that is correct - like the Fenix P1D-CE (link) I reviewed on 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable - with the battery freshly charged there is no difference between the 3 levels - Low, Medium and High - they all appear High - and I can't tell for certain that High seems about the same level as the Turbo.

The reasoning is that the L1D-CE uses a step-up cicuit to boost the regular 1.5V AA to the Vf of the Cree (LED). 
When the input voltage (battery) exceeds the circuit's Vout (=Vf) the circuit effectively is by passed - so the light is basically on direct-drive.

P1D-CE behaved similarly on 3.7V Li-Ion - I thought all 3 of its levels looked the same - yet the current draw on Low and Medium were the same and lower than on High -
See Post #*40* in my Fenix P1D-CE (link) review for its current draw -
Post #*54* for current draw when the batteries were run down a bit.
Post # #*57* for Mike_abcd's initial explanation.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Feb 6, 2007)

Dang. At what voltage does it look like the light regains regulation and levels? It seems like the ideal cell would be a 3.2V nominal 14500 LiFePO4 (a size which doesn't exist in that chemistry, AFAIK). Do you think there's any easy way to get L2D-CE output in the L1D-CE package while still retaining regulation and levels?


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## LowTEC (Feb 6, 2007)

How about a 3.0V 14500?


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## dts71 (Feb 6, 2007)

> Do you think there's any easy way to get L2D-CE output in the L1D-CE package 
> while still retaining regulation and levels?

Yes, go with CR-V3 primary lithium. Brake it appart and you find 2 AA sized 3V lithiums.
It's not cheep but works well in my L1T.

/Alex


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## UnknownVT (Feb 6, 2007)

*Part 3 - Stairway Beamshots*

Please see "Practical" Beamshots? for directly comparable beamshots of lots of other flashlights.

Fenix L1D-CE on *Turbo/brightest* setting for all shots -

Alkaline .......................................................... NiMH








3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable 14500 .......................... Fenix P1D-CE on 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable RCR123


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## LowTEC (Feb 6, 2007)

I always wonder if the L1D-CE with NiMH AA brighter than L1T/123 :naughty:, can you have a quick comparsion of the 2 Vicent? Thanx


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## kemil_30 (Feb 7, 2007)

Anyone knows the maximum voltage for Fenix L1D CE? I am planning to buy Fenix L1D CE but still want more info from you guys. I am planning to get L1D CE and running 3.0-3.7v on it, but I am worried about the led burning out because I am not sure if it could handle more than 3V.


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## kemil_30 (Feb 7, 2007)

Will a 123a fit in the battery tube, i'm thinking of just using 123a and just put spacer to power it at 3V?


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## damon (Feb 7, 2007)

UnknownVT 

great beamshot! 
is it possible for u to take some beamshot of the L1D CE in the Stairway without the reflector. 
i like to see if the L1D CE will make a good flood light or not


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## kemil_30 (Feb 7, 2007)

Disregard my questions on #99 and #100. Found info.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 7, 2007)

*Part 4* - *NiMH*

Fenix L1D-CE NiMH Turbo 

vs. P1D (Luxeon version) on primary CR123A High








just a bit brighter - this is remarkable.

vs. Fenix L1T also NiMH High







not surprisingly quite a bit brighter than the L1T

L1D-CE NiMH - *Medium* vs. Fenix L1T NiMH High







even medium is still brighter.....

vs. Fenix L1T both on NiMH both *Low*







L1T low is a bit brighter.....

*LowTEC* wrote: _"I always wonder if the L1D-CE with NiMH AA brighter than L1T/123



, can you have a quick comparsion of the 2 Vicent?"_

L1D-CE NiMH *Turbo* vs. Fenix L1T on primary CR123A (lithium) High (using Nekomane CR123 body)







brighter....... like I said in the P1D (LuxIII) comparison - remarkable.

vs. Fenix P1D-CE primary CR123A High







the Fenix P1D-CE is not surpringly brighter using its CR123A lithium.

vs. Fenix P1D-CE primary CR123A *Medium*







L1D-CE NiMH Turbo is about the same as the P1D-CE primary CR123A on Medium.....

NiMH current draw at the tail from Post #*31*

NiMH 1.361(starting) - 1.318V (end of readings) open-circuit -

Low = 0.13A
Medium = 0.86A
High = 1.19A
Turbo = 1.26A


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## LowTEC (Feb 7, 2007)

Thanx Vicent, actually I was looking for a comparison between L1D-CE NiMH vs L1T Li-Ion


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## gunga (Feb 7, 2007)

Wow! The levels on this light are great! A decent low, with excellent medium and high.

Turbo is a nice bonus (especially when running 3 V). Can't wait to get mine...


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## UnknownVT (Feb 7, 2007)

*LowTEC* wrote: _"Thanx Vicent, actually I was looking for a comparison between L1D-CE NiMH vs L1T Li-Ion



"_

I guess I should count myself lucky -
that I wasn't building a house to your request/specification.


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## LowTEC (Feb 7, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> *LowTEC* wrote: _"Thanx Vicent, actually I was looking for a comparison between L1D-CE NiMH vs L1T Li-Ion
> 
> 
> 
> ...




:laughing: sorry for the request, but you are the only one we can count on :laughing:

The reason is that to see if I want to replace my L2T/RCR123 combo with a L1D-CE NiMH now, or I should wait til someone making the R123 body for it. There is really no point to jump on the wagon if the L1D-CE NiMH is not any brighter than what I'm using . Costing 50+ more, much bigger in size and not any brighter is a No-No, or I will have to invest another charger and some 14500s........


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## UnknownVT (Feb 8, 2007)

*LowTEC* wrote: _"



sorry for the request, but you are the only one we can count on



_
_The reason is that to see if I want to replace my L2T/RCR123 combo with a L1D-CE NiMH now"_

I don't think you get it....

Having to build the house again - because the original request was not clear......

Your original request - "L1T/123" means L1T with *primary* CR123A to me, 
and _NOT_ a Rechargeable RCR123 - which is not that common 
(so my beamshots of L1T with primary CR123A was a wasted special effort)

vs. Fenix L1T on 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable RCR123 High







L1D-CE on a single NiMH looks brighter than the L1T on 3.7V Rechargeable Li-Ion.......


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## Lobo (Feb 8, 2007)

Outstanding work UnknownVT! You're the man.
Just waiting for the L2D review now. :naughty: 

And another question, is it possible to do morse code? I have read through endless thread about theese new cree AA, so I mix the facts. Of what I understood of the Jetbeam and Rexlight, they have a timer, so if you press a button in a certain time, it will change mode,not turn off the light, which makes it impossible to send morse. How does the fenix work?


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## UnknownVT (Feb 8, 2007)

*Lobo *wrote: _"is it possible to do morse code? I have read through endless thread about theese new cree AA, so I mix the facts. Of what I understood of the Jetbeam and Rexlight, they have a timer, so if you press a button in a certain time, it will change mode,not turn off the light, which makes it impossible to send morse. How does the fenix work?"_

Hadn't thought about it - but NO, can't do Morse code manually
since turning the light off - then back on (or simply tapping the tail-switch) bascially changes the mode of the light - 
therefore no Morse code.

I didn't have to actually use the flashlight to get that - 
but just to confirm - I did try it on the L1D-CE - 
nope, not able to do Morse code - since the light changes to next mode........

This would apply equally to all LxD series (ie: L2D-CE and if they ever bring out Lux versions....)

*Lobo *wrote: _"Just waiting for the L2D review now.






"_

it's already up......

Fenix L2D-CE Comparison Review 

(no rest for the wicked, huh!?



)


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## MSHasegawa (Feb 8, 2007)

This is great stuff. Thanks for your efforts, UnknownVT.

BTW, none of your beam shots are "wasted". We're poring over them with great interest... every one of them.

Michael


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## GeoffS (Feb 9, 2007)

Will using a 3.7v li-ion in the L1D shorten the life of the LED?


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## oBMTo (Feb 10, 2007)

So....which battery would be the best to use in the L1D-CE?


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## LowBat (Feb 10, 2007)

oBMTo said:


> So....which battery would be the best to use in the L1D-CE?


Guess we need some runtime graphs.


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## oBMTo (Feb 10, 2007)

LowBat said:


> Guess we need some runtime graphs.



That would help. :laughing:

Also, I'm assuming that there is only one mode when using 14500...?

I'm having a tough time deciding between the L1D-CE and P1D-CE....


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## UnknownVT (Feb 10, 2007)

*oBMTo* wrote: _"Also, I'm assuming that there is only one mode when using 14500...?"_

No... why would putting in a 14500 battery make all the other modes magically disappear?




(ok, ok using a flat battery would make all the modes "disappear".... right....



)

All the modes are still in their respective places -

It's just that Low, Medium, High and Turbo brightness levels all look about the same when the 14500 is freshly charged.

The Strobe and SOS modes are still exactly where they are when using any other sound AA battery.

Please look in this thread at -
*Part 2* - 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable 14500 in Post #*92* (link)


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## UnknownVT (Feb 12, 2007)

*UnknownVT* wrote: _"I'm sure that it hasn't been lost on some - that since the bezel/refletor unscrews from the rest of the head/LED - means that one can "focus" the beam...._
_These shots show that the head can be re-focussed to minimize the dark halo."_

I've done some more comprehensive experimentation and more controlled comparison beamshots _RE_focussing the L1Dce in a separate thread -

ReFocussing the Fenix L1D-CE (link) 

the "before and after" comparison beamshots seem to show there was very little, if any, loss in refocussing the L1Dce - 
this should apply equally to the L2Dce since they have the same (interchangeable) head.

*Before vs. After* composite beamshots -


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## gadgetnerd (Feb 14, 2007)

oBMTo said:


> I'm having a tough time deciding between the L1D-CE and P1D-CE....



I've got both, and if I could only have one torch, I'd keep the L1D-CE. Sure it's slightly bigger, but it's better built, has an adjustable beam (no more rings), can use many different battery types (1.5V Alk, 1.3V NiMH, 1.7V Li primary, 3.0V Li primary, 3.7V Li Ion), and has a nicer interface.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 16, 2007)

*UnknownVT* wrote: _"I've done some more comprehensive experimentation and more controlled comparison beamshots REfocussing the L1Dce in a separate thread -_
_ReFocussing the Fenix L1D-CE__ (link) _
_the "before and after" comparison beamshots seem to show there was very little, if any, loss in refocussing the L1Dce"_

I've also done the "practical" indoors stairway beamshot of the ReFocussed L1Dce using NiMH on Turbo and I'll also post the original stairway shot from earlier for comparison (please see "Practical" Beamshots? for details and methodology) -

All using NiMH on Turbo mode -

Fenix L1D-CE Before/Stock ................................ After/ReFocussed


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## Ralls (Feb 16, 2007)

I got my L1D-CE today in the mail and I am so excited! Just in time for my camping trip tonight. I already had my L0D-CE and it's a real toss-up between the two as far as which is better because they definitely both have their strengths--I know that I will be using both of them a lot! 

For everyone who is skeptical about the beam and tint, I personally am not worried about it in practical usage. On a white wall, there is definitely a dark halo, but it can be re-focused as discussed above if this is a big issue for you. As far as the tint on low goes, I would say that mine is a bit on the warm, yellowish side, maybe a hint of green (it really is hard to say)--overall I like it because the warmness definitely makes for better color rendition than my L0D-CE. I also like that there is no PWM--a big plus, but this does not mean that I don't like my LOD-CE because I do...A LOT! 

Overall construction is very good, no complaints here; I would say that Fenix has improved their quality control over time because I have owned older models and none of them quite compared to my two latest Fenix offerings. 

The interface is super-easy to use. As it has been stated, if you don't want to use all the other brightness settings and features, you can just use high and low very easily with a simple twist and ignore everything else. The only thing that I would like is about a 1 lumen low, but the low that it has seems very practical and I can live with it. There does seem to be an intermittent glitch with the SOS when it first starts--sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't, no big deal in my opinion.

A big kudos to Fenix for two wonderful little lights and a big thanks to Vincent for the wonderful, detailed reviews--they were, in large part, responsible for helping me pull the trigger.


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## Badbeams3 (Feb 16, 2007)

Camping tonight? You know there`s a freeze warning out for much of Florida...brrr.


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## Ralls (Feb 17, 2007)

Badbeams3 said:


> Camping tonight? You know there`s a freeze warning out for much of Florida...brrr.


 
Yeah...I just got back and nearly froze to death last night; it was SOOO cold!

I did get to use my L1D-CE and this little thing rocks! It is a powerhouse for being so small and using a AA cell. We played "capture the flag" until about 2 AM and the light is still going stong on a Sanyo 2200 mAh rechargable.

A STRONG word of CAUTION to those of you refocusing the beam. I did so initially and decided it wasn't for me, so I twisted it back to how it comes stock, but didn't ensure that it was that tight. While we were playing games at night, I kept inadvertently twisting the wrong part of the bezel when I wanted to switch between high and low. I found out in the morning when I went to clean off my mildly dirty light that the reflector had come loose and wasn't holding the glass firmly against the o-ring and as a result I got a little bit of H2O in my light...argh! I have fixed the problem and don't forsee it happening again, but please be careful when adjusting the focus.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 18, 2007)

*Ralls* wrote: _"A STRONG word of CAUTION to those of you refocusing the beam. I did so initially and decided it wasn't for me, so I twisted it back to how it comes stock, but didn't ensure that it was that tight. While we were playing games at night, I kept inadvertently twisting the wrong part of the bezel when I wanted to switch between high and low. I found out in the morning when I went to clean off my mildly dirty light that the reflector had come loose and wasn't holding the glass firmly against the o-ring and as a result I got a little bit of H2O in my light...argh! I have fixed the problem and don't forsee it happening again, but please be careful when adjusting the focus."_

Worthwhile considering this advice.

Although my samples of one each - L1Dce and L2Dce - are very tight due to the thick O-ring - I have to use two hands to do any refocussing and even then often I end up changing modes(!)






To keep a refocus position might want to consider LocTite or gluing the head in place.


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## scubasteve1942 (Feb 18, 2007)

Thank you for the review and the beamshots.


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## aioria (Feb 25, 2007)

excellent info, thanks very much!


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## ltanzil (Mar 7, 2007)

Did any body know what is the bin type of the cree XR-E being use in the L1D-CE?


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## zerafull (Mar 7, 2007)

scuse me for this basic question, but what is the runtime and regulation of the L1D CE with one 14500 3,7 volt rechargeable cell ?

Regards


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## UnknownVT (Mar 8, 2007)

zerafull said:


> scuse me for this basic question, but what is the runtime and regulation of the L1D CE with one 14500 3,7 volt rechargeable cell ?


 
You're timing is about perfect.....

Please look at this excellent thread by chevrofreak -

Fenix L2D CE and L1D CE runtime graphs

The 14500 runtimes are currently the last 3 graphs in his first/opening post.


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## hank (Dec 24, 2007)

Just got this in the email reviews from the "Cool Tools" website:

"As a flashlight enthusiast, I review many lights on CandlePowerForums.com, a site for "flashaholics.” So I’m often asked which flashlight I reach for the most. My answer: the Fenix L1D-CE"

That you?


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## UnknownVT (Dec 25, 2007)

hank said:


> Just got this in the email reviews from the "Cool Tools" website:
> "As a flashlight enthusiast, I review many lights on CandlePowerForums.com, a site for "flashaholics.” So I’m often asked which flashlight I reach for the most. My answer: the Fenix L1D-CE"
> That you?


 
Guilty as charged....

....but I'd like the following mitigating circumstances to be taken into consideration........


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## tjdean01 (Apr 8, 2008)

Does the light remember what mode it was in when you turned it off, or does it default to low? Thanks


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## UnknownVT (Apr 8, 2008)

tjdean01 said:


> Does the light remember what mode it was in when you turned it off, or does it default to low? Thanks


 
No, it does not have a memory function - the modes are fixed (which I like since the flashlight is then consistent and predictable).

These are the modes for the plain (P4) L1D-CE - 
works the same way for all the Fenix "D"igital series (just the lumens output, and runtimes vary by model) -

Two modes of output, selected by turning the bezel (patented)
General Mode: 9 lumens (25hrs) -> 40 lumens (5hrs) -> 80 lumens (2hrs) -> SOS
Turbo Mode: 90 lumens (1.5hrs) -> Strobe


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## carl (Aug 3, 2008)

1) So do most of you feel the low is low enough? I've read so many previous remarks about fenix lights with lows that aren't low enough. maybe this was with previous models only.

2) is the olive color a light green like the one demo on you tube?


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## Flying Turtle (Aug 3, 2008)

I would give it a lower low and get rid of the initial flash when firing it up. But, it's still a very nice light. 

Geoff


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## UnknownVT (Aug 3, 2008)

carl said:


> 1) So do most of you feel the low is low enough? I've read so many previous remarks about fenix lights with lows that aren't low enough. maybe this was with previous models only.


 

I believe the Fenix L1, L2 and P2 D(igital) series use the same electronics circuit - 
ie: heads of L1D = L2D = P2D - 
only the LED emitter varies (eg: Q5, P4 Rebel80, R100 etc)

The light output levels changes with the emitter.

Since this is the original P4 Cree Edition - the Q5 and Rebel editions are brighter - including the lowest levels.

L1D-Q5
General Mode: 12 lumens (25hrs) -> 53 lumens (5hrs) -> 107 lumens (2hrs) -> SOS
Turbo Mode: 120 lumens (1.5hrs) -> Strobe

compared with original L1D-CE (P4)
General Mode: 9 lumens (25hrs) -> 40 lumens (5hrs) -> 80 lumens (2hrs) -> SOS
Turbo Mode: 90 lumens (1.5hrs) -> Strobe

So the lowest level on the CE = 9 lumens and Q5 = 12 lumens (brighter, gain of 3 lumens) but with the same spec'd runtime.

FWIW - anecdotally - I have NiteCore D10 (and NiteCore EX10 ) on hand - and I set the user adjustable level for normal around the house use - I go up from the minimum which is spec'd at 3 lumens on primary batteries (seems lower from my reviews) until I feel the light seems to "jump" in brightness to my eyes (purely subjective) - then I go back down and up until I feel I got just that "jump" in brightness.

Strangely enough this level is about the same as the original L1D-CE (P4) lowest level (spec'd at 9 lumens) - I had EDC'd the L1D for a long time and use it around the house mostly on the lowest level.

So although I still critique the Fenix series for not having a really low low level - their low level is actually pretty useful practically for my real usage.


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## carl (Aug 3, 2008)

thanks for your answers guys. I am interested in the L1D-CE because of its UI but I do notice its not on the favorite list for 2008 on CPF Reviews. All the L1D-CE needs is a few tweaks like getting rid of the initial flash, lower low, more concentric battery bore machining, and it would be perfect for me.


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