# Jetbeam RRT0 XML



## Miracle (Oct 18, 2011)

Jetbeam RRT0 XML


http://www.jet-beam.com/links/pro/rrt0xml.aspx


With one 1 RCR123 battery, the above LED torch light gives out 550 lumens

does any kind souls know how long it runs for 550 lumens?

After it runs for 550 lumens, how long will it run until battery finish and at what lumens?

Thanks


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## abinok (Oct 18, 2011)

About 10 minutes.
don't use a rcr123... use a imr cell. The current is too high for rcr.
you will damage the unprotected imr cell by continuing to run it... don't do it.
runtime on a cr123 is around 90min, at 250-300 lumens.


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## jh333233 (Oct 18, 2011)

RCR would surely get blown with 550lm, away from it


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## 2000xlt (Oct 18, 2011)

550lm! wow these small lights are really getting to be pocket rockets


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## DisrupTer911 (Oct 18, 2011)

Why do you guys say no RCR123 in RRT0?
It's clearly shown in the documentation that those are the preferred battery types.


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## Joe Talmadge (Oct 18, 2011)

DisrupTer911 said:


> Why do you guys say no RCR123 in RRT0?
> It's clearly shown in the documentation that those are the preferred battery types.



On the other hand, the sysmax experience doesn't give me a good feeling about Jetbeam's understanding of safe battery charge/discharge rates... easy enough to resolve this one, though, if someone can tell us the current draw when an RCR is used


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## Blueskies123 (Oct 18, 2011)

I wonder why it only runs 100 hours on .005 lumens. Quark and Zebralights run many times longer in .2 lumens. I use the low low more than any other setting.


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## peterharvey73 (Oct 18, 2011)

Blueskies123 said:


> I wonder why it only runs 100 hours on .005 lumens. Quark and Zebralights run many times longer in .2 lumens. I use the low low more than any other setting.



Because the RRT-0 has a special _continuously variable_ brightness adjustment that has higher power consumption than a conventional lumen adjustment with just three fixed levels of brightness...


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## jh333233 (Oct 19, 2011)

DisrupTer911 said:


> Why do you guys say no RCR123 in RRT0?
> It's clearly shown in the documentation that those are the preferred battery types.



If you insist that RCR(LiCo) is accepted, just go at your own risk


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## DisrupTer911 (Oct 19, 2011)

Not insisting but why would the manufacturer list it as a safe battery when it can cause issues and possibly harm the user. opening themselves up to lawsuits, etc etc.


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## jh333233 (Oct 19, 2011)

DisrupTer911 said:


> Not insisting but why would the manufacturer list it as a safe battery when it can cause issues and possibly harm the user. opening themselves up to lawsuits, etc etc.


Because they are not the one who use the light, if you dont fascinate ppl with lumen
Strictly speaking, RCR = Rechargable CR123a-sized li-ion but theres 3 different chemistry, LiMn, LiCo, LiFePO4 but usually ppl would treat a RCR as LiCo
LiMn as IMR16340


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## Joe Talmadge (Oct 19, 2011)

So to settle this argument, I'd ask again, what's the current draw on RCR? Protected LiCo are usually rated around 750mAh, draw is recommended up to 2C, so if the light is pulling around 1.5A or greater, I'd go with IMR instead; the lower it is below 1.5A, the happier I am with protected LiCo. So we just need to know what the light is pulling to get to that lumen rating, to see which battery makes sense


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## swan (Oct 19, 2011)

Check jetbeams data; TESTED ON RCR 700MAH-WHAT U CANT READ!


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## Joe Talmadge (Oct 19, 2011)

swan said:


> Check jetbeams data; TESTED ON RCR 700MAH-WHAT U CANT READ!



Me not great on reading, but me working on it lol. But seriously, I look at this myself first, because I'm capable of understanding specs and coming to my own decisions on how hard I want to drive my batteries. And second, the fact that the sysmax pushes 1000ma into a10440 makes me wonder if anyone at jetbeam has read or understand the battery manufacturers recommendations. Though your all-caps response is very convincing lol


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## peterharvey73 (Oct 19, 2011)

We must be careful, because lately Sysmax has really gone wonky - their all new Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger is not working as it should, and the Nitecore TM11 Tiny Monster is having some problems too.

My friend just purchased an RRT-0 XM-L from bogusa, and I'll have a look at it this weekend when I see him...


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## Brasso (Oct 19, 2011)

I imagine that if you did run it for than long your new xml is going to fry itself pretty quick. I don't trust Jetbeam.


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## FlashKat (Oct 19, 2011)

If nobody really knows about the batteries, then contact the manufacturers. AW will give you full details if his batteries will work with the RRT-0 XML.


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## eh123456 (Oct 19, 2011)

What's wrong with their new i4 Intellicharger ?



peterharvey73 said:


> We must be careful, because lately Sysmax has really gone wonky - their all new Jetbeam i4 Intellicharger is not working as it should, and the Nitecore TM11 Tiny Monster is having some problems too.
> 
> My friend just purchased an RRT-0 XM-L from bogusa, and I'll have a look at it this weekend when I see him...


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## Joe Talmadge (Oct 19, 2011)

eh123456 said:


> What's wrong with their new i4 Intellicharger ?



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?320968-JETBeam-Intellicharge-i4



Flashcat said:


> If nobody really knows about the batteries,



We know about the batteries, their tolerances seem well documented. What we need to know is how much current the light is drawing


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## FlashKat (Oct 19, 2011)

Then ask Jetbeam.




Joe Talmadge said:


> We know about the batteries, their tolerances seem well documented. What we need to know is how much current the light is drawing


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## Warp (Nov 4, 2011)

Any conclusion on the current draw? Measured or via asking JETBeam?


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## peterharvey73 (Nov 4, 2011)

I emailed AW, and he doesn't say if the RRT-0 XM-L is better on RCR or IMR; he only says that the RCR chemistry can discharge up to 1.5 amps.
He says that if the flashlight drives at 1.5 amps or higher, then the IMR 16340 550 mAH chemistry will give both better performance and longer run times than the RCR 16340 750 mAH chemistry; I'm not quite sure why he said IMR would give longer run times as well? Coz it has fewer milliamp hours.

So only Jetbeam can tell us what the current draw on the RRT-0 XM-L is, however they tend not to respond to emails, but then they have recommended the RRT-0 XM-L run on RCR 16340's.
I'll definitely test my friend's new RRT-0 XM-L this Saturday evening...


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## Stephen Wallace (Nov 4, 2011)

It does sound odd to say that the battery with the higher capacity won't run as long, but it does make sense once you think it through. It's basically due to LiCo cells not being best suited to high current draw. 

Under high draw, the voltage of a LiCo cell will sag more than the voltage of an LiMn cell, which cope with high draw applications better. There are two things to take in to consideration. Depending on the type of regulation the light uses, the drop in voltage may mean that the light then draws a higher current from the light in order to maintain the same power output. Obviously, the higher the current draw, the quicker the battery will run out. The other consideration is that with the cell voltage dropping rapidly, a protected cells PCB may cut in before the battery has actually used up it's full capacity.


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## Bigmac_79 (Nov 4, 2011)

peterharvey73 said:


> ...I'm not quite sure why he said IMR would give longer run times as well? Coz it has fewer milliamp hours...



When you run a battery at a high discharge rate (close to or above it's limit) it effectively decreases the capacity of the battery, because it can't perform as well near it's limit. A battery rated at 750 mAh will only actually give you that many milliamp-hours at a relatively low discharge rate. (So labeling batteries by mAh can be slightly misleading, but it's the standard now and I'm not sure there is a better way). 

IMR batteries, though rated at lower capacity, will actually be able to deliver that capacity at higher currents, while the RCR batteries won't be able to deliver the capacity they're rated at those same currents. (High currents for a 750 mAh RCR are around 1.5 A or greater)


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## jh333233 (Nov 4, 2011)

If Jetbeam thinks a 550lm regardless of battery chemistries/specs may fascinates us flashaholic, they are VERY wrong
(Since they are not giving out current drawn data even though we definitely know its overdrawing LiCo, seems they are trying to fool the people who arent familiar with chemistry)


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## Joe Talmadge (Nov 4, 2011)

jh333233 said:


> If Jetbeam thinks a 550lm regardless of battery chemistries/specs may fascinates us flashaholic, they are VERY wrong
> (Since they are not giving out current drawn data even though we definitely know its overdrawing LiCo, seems they are trying to fool the people who arent familiar with chemistry)



Honestly, they're doing some odd things, from my point of view, almost as if it's not that they're trying to fool people, it's that they themselves don't understand rechargeables. They just recalled their charger which they claimed supports 10440 even though the charging current is 1000ma, and there's still no indication that they understand that charging a LiCo at >3C is not a good idea. It may be a great light, it's just that each user needs to understand for themselves what the limitations are, since I don't trust Jetbeam's judgement or recommendations anymore on what battery to run.


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## daberti (Nov 4, 2011)

I wonder about a couple of things
1)the break-even point amongst RCR123 and IMR123: will it be at which Amp draw and Lm level?
2)thermal protection: at such an amperage presumably required to produce 550Lm OTFin such a tiny form factor the lack of thermal protection rises more than a fear (to myself)
3)I'm wait for mine as well to gift to my father, but until more current draw literature will be available, he'll be allowed to use only CR123 cells


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## kartracer77 (Nov 4, 2011)

I used a fluke 77/AN. I ran my RRT0 at max (550) for 30 seconds on each battery. freshly charged IMRs 4.01 to 4.04v and AW lion 4.18 to 4.19. Here is my current draw


AW Protected 14500 2.52a
AW Protected ICR 123 2.51a

AW IMR 14500 2.83a
AW IMR 16350 2.82a

Hope this answers everyone questions. I use 14500 IMRs in mine.


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## Bigmac_79 (Nov 4, 2011)

kartracer77 said:


> I used a fluke 77/AN. I ran my RRT0 at max (550) for 30 seconds on each battery. freshly charged 4.01 to 4.04v. Here is my current draw
> 
> 
> AW Protected 14500 2.52a
> ...



Thanks for the data! Looks like IMR's are the safe bet here, as ICR's aren't rated to handle that much current.


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## peterharvey73 (Nov 5, 2011)

I just tested my friend's RRT-0 XM-L SMO against my old RRT-0 S2 OP on both CR123 and AW 16340 Protected.
Bit disappointing.
The AW RCR is definitely brighter, although not that much brighter; doesn't feel like 550 lumens to me.
My friend will order AW IMR's next week; I suspect it will be brighter on IMR.

On goinggear videos, powered by disposable primaries only, the XM-L is floodier; it is hard to tell if the old S2 is throwier.

In real life, on AW RCR 16340's, the XM-L has a much larger, but also a much less brighter hot spot.
At short to medium distances, the hot spot is much larger, and the spill brighter.

However, at long distances, the old S2 easily out-throws the XM-L.
I can also tell you that the old S2 has a neutral tint, where the new XM-L is a cool tint.

Jetbeam should have continued to sell the old R5/S2 alongside the new XM-L, coz it's horses for courses.
I could see a number of people out there who still prefer a balance between flood and throw delivered by the old R5/S2's.
The new XM-L is more heavily biased to flood.

With the RCR 16340 chemistry, I can't see it pumping out 550 lumens at all.
I also can't see it achieving the claimed 150 meters of throw at all either.
Must wait a few more weeks to test it out on AW's IMR 16340 chemistry.

His XM-L also had a SMO reflector.
This didn't affect the big wide hot spot at all.
It only gave a few concentric circles/doughnuts around the wide hot spot; I wouldn't describe it as dirty.
In fact, if I had not noticed the SMO reflector, I would not have noticed the doughnuts at all...


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## daberti (Nov 5, 2011)

Bigmac_79 said:


> Thanks for the data! Looks like IMR's are the safe bet here, as ICR's aren't rated to handle that much current.



IMR are rated to handle 4A. Thus these are safe.
RCR (AW's ones) handle just 2C

Looks like there is only one safe rechargeable chemistry in such a scenario !
The heat buildup is another worry.
IMHO: JB should have released this flashlight with a different approach. I.e.: allowing the max output only for very limited amounts of time, lets say 10seconds.
I'll test it the current draw myself as flashlight will be here with my own Fluke 177, but if *kartracer77*'s figures are right (as I believe, BTW thanks kartracer) we would be well beyond the dangerous zone with LiCo chemistry.

How many ring turns from low to max? Just asking


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## jh333233 (Nov 5, 2011)

daberti said:


> IMR are rated to handle 4C=550mAh*4=2.2A
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...500-*Part-2*&p=2272984&viewfull=1#post2272984
> 
> Looks like there is no rechargeable chemistry at all that is a safe bet in such a scenario !
> ...



Seems 550lm isnt exceeding 2A


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## RocketTomato (Nov 5, 2011)

daberti said:


> IMR are rated to handle 4C=550mAh*4=2.2A
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...500-*Part-2*&p=2272984&viewfull=1#post2272984
> 
> Looks like there is no rechargeable chemistry at all that is a safe bet in such a scenario !
> Even worse: the heat buildup is another worry.



Straight from your link:

*IMR16340 Specifications :*

Nominal Voltage : 3.7V
Capacity : 550mAH 
Lowest Discharge Voltage : 2.50V
Standard Charge : CC/CV ( max. charging rate 1.5A )
Cycle Life : > 500 cycles
Max. continuous discharge rate : 4A
Operating Discharge Temperature : -10 - 60 Degree Celsius

IMRs should be fine in the RRT-0.


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## Joe Talmadge (Nov 5, 2011)

Yep, IMRs are rated almost 8C, not 4C. No problem with 2 & change amps.


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## daberti (Nov 5, 2011)

Rocket and Joe
I stand corrected and my post above has been changed accordingly.

How many ring turns from low to max? Just asking
Anyone could please chime in?

TIA


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## FlashKat (Nov 5, 2011)

The XML LED is just to floody for a small reflector like RRT-0. If you prefer flood beams, then this will be perfect.
The XML in my Jetbeam III M is just satisfying enough for the throw with a good flood which has a deeper and larger reflector.


peterharvey73 said:


> I just tested my friend's RRT-0 XM-L SMO against my old RRT-0 S2 OP on both CR123 and AW 16340 Protected.
> Bit disappointing.
> The AW RCR is definitely brighter, although not that much brighter; doesn't feel like 550 lumens to me.
> My friend will order AW IMR's next week; I suspect it will be brighter on IMR.
> ...


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## peterharvey73 (Nov 5, 2011)

daberti said:


> How many ring turns from low to max? Just asking





daberti said:


> How many ring turns from low to max? Just asking
> Anyone could please chime in?




It's exactly the same as before, which is about 3/4 of a turn +, or 300 degrees; still pretty long for excellent control.
I find that small flashlights can tolerate long ring travel the most, while large flashlight like the RRT-3 with long ring travel requires cumbersome two-handed operation, where a large V60C with short travel can be operated with one-hand.

The tail end clickies of the two models are exactly the same.

The only other thing I could add is that the annodising of the new XM-L is back to that lovely natural finish, with a tint of olive in it.
On the otherhand, my old S2 is dark grey.

Also, the RRT-0 XM-L powered by my AW 1630 Protected didn't seem to become super hot at all; not much hotter than the old S2 powered by the same battery in fact.

Just me, but I'm gonna stay away from XM-L's in pocket sized single 16340 sized flashlights with 25mm bezels; too floody for me - I love the flood, but the throw has gone out the door.
Flashkat is probably right - XM-L's will provide a balance of flood/throw in 1x18650 size with a bezel diameter of about 33mm.
In a large 2x18650 or 3x18650 flashlight with a bezel diameter of around 60mm like the M3X, Catapult, M3C4 & V60C etc, then the XM-L becomes quite throwy...


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## daberti (Nov 5, 2011)

Your response turned out into something pretty informative to me. Huge thanks.  
This flashlight is meant for my daddy as his own EDC. He needs flood. 

I just want to give him something foolproof.


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## kartracer77 (Nov 5, 2011)

I retested the current readings using 2 meters, my fluke 77 and a craftsman digital and the craftsman read a consistance .12a lower than the fluke. The RCR123 are still pulling 2.39a, too high for me to use them.


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## daberti (Nov 5, 2011)

kartracer77 said:


> I retested the current readings using 2 meters, my fluke 77 and a craftsman digital and the craftsman read a consistance .12a lower than the fluke. The RCR123 are still pulling 2.39a, too high for me to use them.



Thanks once again Kart. 
It's just too high for everyone with a good dose of common sense, I suppose.


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## Phil40000 (Nov 5, 2011)

Bought one, ran it using 2 AW IMR 16340 RCR cells. I ran it in bursts on maximum so that it did not get too hot, i also noticed when the runtime was dying and was very aware about the risk of discharging the cells too much. On the second cell i let it run down on full again a little longer and the light flashed which i took to mean do not run the cell any longer message. In the morning both cells failed to start charging on both my chargers, sold the light, put the batteries in the bin. Peace, out.


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## peterharvey73 (Nov 5, 2011)

Phil4000, what make and model of charger were you using?

Any advice on how we can survive using AW IMR chemistry 16340's with the RRT-0 XM-L?
Or shall we play it safe and stick to AW RCR chemistry 16340 Protected's?


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## daberti (Nov 6, 2011)

I guess we should stick with rcr's approach.


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## peterharvey73 (Nov 6, 2011)

Daberti, yr father wants a floody light.
The RRT-0 XM-L is 100 mm long.
Have u ever considered buying him a Zebralight SC600 using 1x18650 for 750 lumens OTF ANSI that's just *7mm longer* than the RRT-0?


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## daberti (Nov 6, 2011)

You're right. As a matter of fact I've two t20c2 mkII xm-l and a p7 l4 host + ti 18650 body that work with 18650 like a charm. Tomorrow I'll make up my mind. Thanks


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## FlashKat (Nov 6, 2011)

The only problem is that the Zebralight SC600 is limited to using only 18650 batteries where thr RRT-0 can use AA, cr123, and RCR123 batteries.


peterharvey73 said:


> Daberti, yr father wants a floody light.
> The RRT-0 XM-L is 100 mm long.
> Have u ever considered buying him a Zebralight SC600 using 1x18650 for 750 lumens OTF ANSI that's just *7mm longer* than the RRT-0?


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## daberti (Nov 6, 2011)

Nope. Actually it can only safely use cr123. See above


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## harlequinn (Nov 6, 2011)

kartracer77 said:


> I used a fluke 77/AN. I ran my RRT0 at max (550) for 30 seconds on each battery. freshly charged IMRs 4.01 to 4.04v and AW lion 4.18 to 4.19. Here is my current draw
> 
> 
> AW Protected 14500 2.52a
> ...



Cool, that is useful information. I've never used IMRs.

Was the voltage drop the same for the different battery types?

How does the current draw hold up over time for each battery type?

(I'm happy with anecdotal data - please don't run tests on my behalf).


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## Surnia (Nov 6, 2011)

Phil40000 said:


> Bought one, ran it using 2 AW IMR 16340 RCR cells. I ran it in bursts on maximum so that it did not get too hot, i also noticed when the runtime was dying and was very aware about the risk of discharging the cells too much. On the second cell i let it run down on full again a little longer and the light flashed which i took to mean do not run the cell any longer message. In the morning both cells failed to start charging on both my chargers, sold the light, put the batteries in the bin. Peace, out.



hold on, i thought the RRT-0 had low battery shut off? 

I also thought Lithium secondaries are NOT garbage safe.


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## daberti (Nov 8, 2011)

Here it is my test.
Equipment:
Fluke 177 DMM 
Imax B6 RC charger
SKF TKTL10 IR thermal probe
AW Black label 750mAh and IMR 550mAh cells (brand new, unused, each charged after complete discharge 5 times with 30min resting time off the charger in between). Charging current: 0.3A
Disch current: 0.2A
Cutoff V: 3V

First: lets take note of the bevels on the power ring. They'll be useful later on.

More later...stay tuned


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## Phil40000 (Nov 8, 2011)

I was using my Ultrafire 139 charger with AW 16340RCR IMR cells, i had the light in my view at all times when running in bursts. I read about the cut out and only on the second cell did i see the light flash on and off a couple of times just as i was about to kill the run. My AW cells had only been deep cycled 3 times ready for use. That was my experience with the Jetbeam RRT. The cells would not begin charging a few hours later, i waited until the morning but still no joy, tested the charger it worked fine with other cells. I have since updated my charger to a better quality one with more features etc. I would be interested if this has happened to anyone else?


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## daberti (Nov 8, 2011)

Here it is my test.
Equipment:
Fluke 177 DMM 
Imax B6 RC charger
SKF TKTL10 IR thermal probe
AW Black label 750mAh and IMR 550mAh cells (brand new, unused, each charged after complete discharge 5 times with 30min resting time off the charger in between). Charging current: 0.3A
Disch current: 0.2A
Cutoff V: 3V

First: lets take note of the bevels on the power ring. They'll be useful later on.

Here we go with the results...
IMR Peak draw at max: 2.1A that settle to 1.95A after 20 seconds and 1.90 after 30seconds
RCR123 Peak draw at max: 1.75A that after 20-30 secs go to less than 1.50A and readly back to 1.75A and back to 1.5A and 1.75A (loop). Evidence of PCB cutting off?

More later...stay tuned


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## daberti (Nov 8, 2011)

Phil40000 said:


> I was using my Ultrafire 139 charger with AW 16340RCR IMR cells, i had the light in my view at all times when running in bursts. I read about the cut out and only on the second cell did i see the light flash on and off a couple of times just as i was about to kill the run. My AW cells had only been deep cycled 3 times ready for use. That was my experience with the Jetbeam RRT. The cells would not begin charging a few hours later, i waited until the morning but still no joy, tested the charger it worked fine with other cells. I have since updated my charger to a better quality one with more features etc. I would be interested if this has happened to anyone else?



What was their voltage right off the flashlight?


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## daberti (Nov 8, 2011)

daberti said:


> SKF TKTL10 specs
> http://www.mapro.skf.com/products/ins_TKTL10.htm
> 
> 19:46 (local time)
> ...


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## Surnia (Nov 8, 2011)

Daberti I'll be interested in your results, as I plan on running mine with 14500 cells as well. 



Phil40000 said:


> I was using my Ultrafire 139 charger with AW 16340RCR IMR cells, i had the light in my view at all times when running in bursts. I read about the cut out and only on the second cell did i see the light flash on and off a couple of times just as i was about to kill the run. My AW cells had only been deep cycled 3 times ready for use. That was my experience with the Jetbeam RRT. The cells would not begin charging a few hours later, i waited until the morning but still no joy, tested the charger it worked fine with other cells. I have since updated my charger to a better quality one with more features etc. I would be interested if this has happened to anyone else?



I mean no offense, but do you have a DMM to check cell voltages? I keep seeing your posts gloss over any measurements, and I wonder if the cells were OK before use in the RRT-0, and I'm curious as to the final voltages after the discharge...


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## daberti (Nov 8, 2011)

Well. My tests are nearly done. My own conclusion is that IMR are safe for amperage but not for overdischarge. RCR are relatively safe if we run very short bursts -5 seconds max 10 secs- and of course with no overdischarge problem at all. RCR are very to absolutely safe once we've found the power setting that draws 1A at battery end. I found it the way I depicted above. A high end DMM is required in the latter case. In any case anyone is HOTLY encouraged to verify himself/herself with his/her own RRT-0 xm-l what I found out.


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## Surnia (Nov 8, 2011)

daberti said:


> Well. My tests are nearly done. My own conclusion is that IMR are safe for amperage but not for overdischarge. RCR are relatively safe if we run very short bursts -5 seconds max 10 secs- and of course with no overdischarge problem at all. RCR are very to absolutely safe once we've found the power setting that draws 1A at battery end. I found it the way I depicted above. A high end DMM is required in the latter case. In any case anyone is HOTLY encouraged to verify himself/herself with his/her own RRT-0 xm-l what I found out.



So in the end you're measuring under 2A discharge?

What's the safe limit on the AW 14500s, 1.5A?


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## daberti (Nov 9, 2011)

Surnia said:


> So in the end you're measuring under 2A discharge?
> 
> What's the safe limit on the AW 14500s, 1.5A?



Yes. In the end under 2A.

Safe limit on AW 14500RCR is 1.5A. They are listed as having same 750mAh capacity as AW's RCR123. However in real usage many folks spotted out that perform a little more mAh and at lower A than RCR123.
I haven't here to test but I would expect to perform a 1.5A discharge when RRT-0 XM-L at max power.

Just tested this flashlight with Energizer EL123 primaries.
At max they draw 0.85A. So if they perform 260Lm at such a draw, the RCR123 when used at my mentioned safe power setting drawing 1A should deliver something more than 260Lm.

Bottom line: IMR should be taken off as the output starts to decrease. When they get to the point of rapidly blinking it is just too late. You'll notice the output decrease only on max output a alike though. So stay warned.

All in all it's an average light. I'd have liked max output with RCRs limited to 1.3A just to stay in the safe zone OR a low voltage cutoff to stay in the safe zone with IMRs.

Its cost is actually out of sync with functions and security issues.


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## Surnia (Nov 9, 2011)

Slightly unsettling results there, you would think that they had put a bit more thought into that. Thanks for the results daberti! 

How well can LiCo handle short high output bursts? Its highly unlikely I'll ever run it at max for extended periods of time, but maybe for the occasional short bursts it'll be interesting...

Or maybe I shouldn't bother and just get an S2 instead =T


Phil40000 sorry if I came off as offensive about your posts regarding the dead IMR, its just a bit difficult to read results without numbers. thank you for doing the initial tests, and wasting a battery in the process =(


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## daberti (Nov 9, 2011)

Surnia said:


> Slightly unsettling results there, you would think that they had put a bit more thought into that. Thanks for the results daberti!
> 
> How well can LiCo handle short high output bursts? Its highly unlikely I'll ever run it at max for extended periods of time, but maybe for the occasional short bursts it'll be interesting...
> 
> Or maybe I shouldn't bother and just get an S2 instead =T



I've no knowledge about S2 current draw...but into the 1x123 realm I would opt for:
1)HDS Custom Built Rotary 200Lm USD200 (I own one)

Or in compact 2x123
Quark "X" 2x123 (handles very well 1x17670RCR, has thermal protection)
Not rotary

Better bang for value?
EagleTac T20C2 MkII XM-L which has many output levels, thermal protection, upgradeable led/reflector module and many many goods into standard package. You can find it for less than 100USD. It is rated for 720Lm (580 Ansi FL-1 lumens) and mine eats AW's 2900 flat top 18650. Not bulky at all.


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## Warp (Nov 9, 2011)

daberti said:


> I've no knowledge about S2 current draw...but into the 1x123 realm I would opt for:
> 1)HDS Custom Built Rotary 200Lm USD200 (I own one)
> 
> Or in compact 2x123
> ...



Bulky is relative. The T20C2 isn't a pocket light and compared to a JETBeam RRT-0 the T20C2 is, well, massive. It's a cargo-pocket light, perhaps.


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## daberti (Nov 9, 2011)

Not stepping into a debate about dimensions. To me JB RRT-0 xm-l should be sold only as compatible and reliable with primaries. Bottom line. At 260lumens with no reliable or safe support for rechargeables to me it is a no go.


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## Warp (Nov 9, 2011)

daberti said:


> Not stepping into a debate about dimensions. To me JB RRT-0 xm-l should be sold only as compatible and reliable with primaries. Bottom line. At 260lumens with no reliable or safe support for rechargeables to me it is a no go.



If you are unwilling to discuss how much larger the T20C2 than the RRT-0 is why did you bring it up and claim it is "not bulky at all"?

OP: To get the size closer, if that is required, with the same basic list of pros as the T20C2, consider a *P*20C2.


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## JustG (Nov 9, 2011)

It's too bad I came across this thread after I ordered a RRT0. I had high hopes of running rechargeables in the light.


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## Surnia (Nov 9, 2011)

JustG, I have a thread running in the battery forums about Li-ion cells pertaining to the RRT-0, and 45/70 has a good reply on the subject. Not all is lost, so there's still a good chance of hope for the RRT-0! As daberti says, just don't run it on max for too long as the 16340 or 14500 are rated to 1.5A max (and according to 45/70, it'll just shorten their life with the high drain)


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## JustG (Nov 10, 2011)

Surnia, thanks for the heads up on the battery forums. 45/70's words are reassuring.


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## Moriarty (Nov 10, 2011)

I run mine on an AW RCR123 and work on the basis that 'maximum' is only intended for short periods of time.

Used sensibly, it gets warm but not hot.

If I need circa 500 lumens for a long period of time I use an RT15 XML driven by two AW 18650's.


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## daberti (Nov 10, 2011)

Warp said:


> If you are unwilling to discuss how much larger the T20C2 than the RRT-0 is why did you bring it up and claim it is "not bulky at all"?
> 
> OP: To get the size closer, if that is required, with the same basic list of pros as the T20C2, consider a *P*20C2.



Don't get me wrong Warp 
First of all let me correct myself: T20C2 MkII XM-L delivers 580Lm (Ansi) and not 480 as I wrongly stated above.

Then:
T20C2 MkII XM-L specs

 Body diameter 
 1.0 inch (2.54cm) 
 Bezel diameter 
 1.3 inch (3.3cm) 
 Length 
 5.5 inch (14cm) 
 Weight 
 4.25 ounces (120grams) 



RRT-O XM-L specs
Body: 20.5mm
Head: 25.4mm
Total length with extens. tube: 116mm (I consider this as its max length and please note that at less than such a length there are VERY GOOD 17670 capable hassle free XM-L flashlights around)
Weight: 83g (with ext. tube without batts)

I inch longer and 1/3rd" greater bezel don't make it a one order greater and beefier device. 
Admittedly weight might be.
But it is a true tactical, reliable, thermally managed, upgreadable, weapon mountable flashlight (heavy recoil ready) and there is evidence that RRT-0 XM-L it is NOT.


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## Warp (Nov 10, 2011)

=


daberti said:


> I inch longer and 1/3rd" greater bezel don't make it a one order greater and beefier device.
> Admittedly weight might be.
> But it is a true tactical, reliable, thermally managed, upgreadable, weapon mountable flashlight (heavy recoil ready) and there is evidence that RRT-0 XM-L it is NOT.




The RRT-O is small enough to be a pocket light. 

The T20C2 is not. 

Holding two lights of those dimensions side by side, let alone putting them in your pockets, demonstrates this conclusively. Sure, the T20C2 is a fine light. But it is not a pocket light and it is a different size category than an RRT-0. That's all. Saying otherwise is, IMO, grossly misrepresentative and the last thing I want to do on CPF is mislead somebody into spending $90+ on a light that doesn't meet their needs.

I have a T20C2, as my signature shows. I even carry it in my *cargo* pocket at work and at night, etc, but it is purely supplemental as it is far too large/bulky/obtrusive/pointy/etc to be a true EDC/pocket light, which is all that my point was meant to confer initially.


Also, why do you bring up weapon mountable? The OP never said nor hinted at anything like that.


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## daberti (Nov 10, 2011)

Warp said:


> =
> 
> 
> The RRT-O is small enough to be a pocket light.
> ...



Sorry, you look like not getting the WHOLE picture. I.e.: actually RRT-0 XM-L is not even worth being bought. Too much issues with RCRs no thermal protection and low voltage cutoff (thus no safe IMR usage). Period. JB endorse usage of cells that can actually be dangerous (RCR) or costy (driving IMR dead).
I'd like to hear from you something about this. 
Then: why spending more for getting less? RRT-0 xm-l is sold at USD102 while Eagletac at less than 90USD...go figure!! More for less means also that if you're paying less for a flashlight that is weapon mountable and heavy recoil ready...even if not initially planned...why not?

The only safe usage of RRT-o xm-l is with primaries but then it delivers only 260Lm OTF with a draw of 0.85A (wisely enough). Period.
But in the same form factor comes the Ralight Rotary 200lm. Better spending 108USD on RRT or 200USD on the former?
47's Quark "X" (XM-L as well) 123x2 is even shrter than RRT-0 with extension tube and can even use 17670. And costs way less.


If T20C2 is so much longer to EDCing is a matter of dressing (clips combat grip and so on can be easily taken off BTW). If it is safe and offers more you could write it on marble 
And safe are 47's and Ralight.

Talking about signatures: see what I sell and see what I recommended...just to guess if I'm biased....


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## kreisler (Nov 10, 2011)

daberti said:


> mine eats AW's 2900 flat top 18650. Not bulky at all.


your Eagtac T20C2 mkII eats AW 2900 with flat top? how come? the 2 plastic rings prevent contact:


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## Warp (Nov 10, 2011)

daberti said:


> Sorry, you look like not getting the WHOLE picture. I.e.: actually RRT-0 XM-L is not even worth being bought. Too much issues with RCRs no thermal protection and low voltage cutoff (thus no safe IMR usage). Period. JB endorse usage of cells that can actually be dangerous (RCR) or costy (driving IMR dead).
> I'd like to hear from you something about this.
> Then: why spending more for getting less? RRT-0 xm-l is sold at USD102 while Eagletac at less than 90USD...go figure!! More for less means also that if you're paying less for a flashlight that is weapon mountable and heavy recoil ready...even if not initially planned...why not?
> 
> ...



The topic was a small light (RRT-0). A much larger light (T20C2) was brought up and claimed to be "not bulky". I disagree with that claim, given the circumstances/situation. That's it. It's very simple.




kreisler said:


> your Eagtac T20C2 mkII eats AW 2900 with flat top? how come? the 2 plastic rings prevent contact:



He probably removed the ring


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## daberti (Nov 10, 2011)

Nope. That came to my surprise but rest assured. It is true. No contact ring removed. Nothing modified.


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## daberti (Nov 10, 2011)

Warp keeping off from the huge eagletac. The thread talks about what someone else here defined as garbage. Come on let's face it. 108usd for it it is stealing to say the least. Or bucks for danger if you prefer. JB endorses usage of RCR out of specs. That's it and now at least every wise average Joe is warned. But me and you have a common view. Glock.


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## Warp (Nov 10, 2011)

daberti said:


> Nope. That came to my surprise but rest assured. It is true. No contact ring removed. Nothing modified.



That is surprising. I had to remove mine, and not just for my flat top AW but even for my "button top" Redilast as it only worked intermittetly (sp?). 



daberti said:


> Warp…keeping off from the huge eagletac. The thread talks about what someone else here defined as garbage. Come on let's face it. 108usd for it…it is stealing to say the least. Or bucks for danger if you prefer. JB endorses usage of RCR out of specs. That's it and now at least every wise average Joe is warned. But me and you have a common view. Glock.



I have a 26, 19 and 21SF and have previously had a 20 and a 30SF as well plus I was, for a very short period, issued a 17. They are very nice.


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## Phil40000 (Nov 10, 2011)

Surnia said:


> Slightly unsettling results there, you would think that they had put a bit more thought into that. Thanks for the results daberti!
> 
> How well can LiCo handle short high output bursts? Its highly unlikely I'll ever run it at max for extended periods of time, but maybe for the occasional short bursts it'll be interesting...
> 
> ...



No problem mate, i do not have a multi meter to record measurements. The cells i were using were very new and had only had a couple of deep cycles before proper use. i fully understand why people record voltages etc but there are probably many average Joe's such as myself that buy the light online and try it on RCR's because the manufacturers blurb says so. The light is heavily marketed with the 550 lumen claim to help it stand out in the marketplace. I buy lights like this, put the correct batteries in according to the maker and run it. I do not have the time or patience to keep checking voltages etc. If it was a custom light then i could understand it. As i said, it may have been a one off with my light or the cells. I tried to use common sense with running it in bursts etc.

Regards,

Philip


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## daberti (Nov 10, 2011)

Yes Warp. They are all pretty functional and easy to field strip. I own a G21 full frame. With DPM recoil system. What a nice and reliable life insurance it is! To be honest I own an H&K Mark 23 as well. It is so deadly accurate and not properly gifted 

Said that. Please believe me. My eagletac xm-l as stock works smoothly with no mod with AW's 2900. This was not with other led assemblies. Please note that with this new release also the u.i. has been changed to some extent. Time to go to sleep here in Italy now. Read you with joy (not kidding or laughing at you) tomorrow. Best.


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## peterharvey73 (Nov 11, 2011)

My friend received his brand new AW RCR 750 mAH Protected, and AW IMR 550 mAH batteries.
We tested his RRT-0 XM-L on all types of batteries.
On disposable CR123's, the the RRT-0 XM-L was dimmer @ some 260 lumens.
On rechargeables, there was NO difference in maximum brightness between the RCR and IMR chemistries.
We though we may as well use the RCR with the Protection Circuits from here onwards for safety...


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## daberti (Nov 12, 2011)

peterharvey73 said:


> My friend received his brand new AW RCR 750 mAH Protected, and AW IMR 550 mAH batteries.
> We tested his RRT-0 XM-L on all types of batteries.
> On disposable CR123's, the the RRT-0 XM-L was dimmer @ some 260 lumens.
> On rechargeables, there was NO difference in maximum brightness between the RCR and IMR chemistries.
> We though we may as well use the RCR with the Protection Circuits from here onwards for safety...



Did you test the amperage draw at battery end with RCR?
AW does NOT endorse such RCR at more than 1.5A, so without any DMM reading use them at your own risk.


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## peterharvey73 (Nov 12, 2011)

daberti said:


> Did you test the amperage draw at battery end with RCR?
> AW does NOT endorse such RCR at more than 1.5A, so without any DMM reading use them at your own risk.



Unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to purchasing a Fluke digital multi-meter and learning how to use it.
However, I am keen on buying one soon, and learning how to use it too.
Will let everyone know if something goes wrong with AW RCR or IMR 16340's on the RRT-0 XM-L...


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## daberti (Nov 12, 2011)

Peter, battery safety with this fl has been covered enough on this thread. I would strongly advice you to drive on the safe road I.e. Primaries.


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## ThumperACC (Nov 12, 2011)

JustG said:


> It's too bad I came across this thread after I ordered a RRT0. I had high hopes of running rechargeables in the light.



I use IMR rechargeable 16340s, they are rated at 4 amps (8C) discharge and handle the light just fine. RCRs suffer above 1.5 amps and this light draws ~2.6 amps on a rechargeable (measured by me with a quality [Fluke] meter).

For those that are curious, I measured ~1.35 amps on CR123 non-rechargeables (the difference is due to the lower voltage driving less current through the circuit).

ThumperACC


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## daberti (Nov 12, 2011)

Where did you put the leads? Just asking.
How many seconds long did you measured? 
IMR are amperage safe but not overdischarge safe.
I want a flashlight to serve me and not the opposite.


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## qazx (Nov 21, 2011)

can anyone verify that the runtime on 1AA is the 3hours 45min that jetbeam claim.
if so thats phenomenal for 110lumen output, so im guessing it might be the unregulated runtime.
i would probably buy it for that alone if only it were a bit smaller, but 12cm is too long for an edc AA sized torch.


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## LeGranDuc (Nov 23, 2011)

Hi everybody.
New on the forum, and recently got into flashlights.
Just got my RRT-0 XML yesterday. A great little light.
I have run it on maximum output for about 2 minutes with no problems.
I really like the maximum output. Tried it at work today with the regular lights off. It blew me away. Sure, it is a floody light, but i like that in a EDC light.
Using unprotected RCR123 880 mah cell's.
If the cell's become a problem after i have used the light for a while, i will have to find alternative ones.


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## daberti (Nov 23, 2011)

LeGranDuc said:


> Hi everybody.
> New on the forum, and recently got into flashlights.
> Just got my RRT-0 XML yesterday. A great little light.
> I have run it on maximum output for about 2 minutes with no problems.
> ...



I cannot quite share your excitement


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## Surnia (Nov 28, 2011)

Okay so mine came in, currently doing a runtime on an Eneloop. I have no Li-Ions, I was going to pickup and wait for its arrival before I made the investment into a new chemistry. 

Brightness is... about the same as my iTP SA2 on Medium, but it has been running solidly for about 2 hours on max with no noticeable drop in light output (I have NO method to measure this, I rely on ceiling bounce and perceived brightness). Unfortunately this does mean it falls short of its rated 110 lumen rating (SA2 according to selfbuilt is about 60 lumens; and according to others, 25% change in output should be nearly impossible to perceive), but the runtime looks about right SO far. I read that the runtime sits about 2:30 before they turn them off (half brightness?). 

Other build notes:
- All threads so far are un-annodized. 
- No flickering issues on the AA extender, again all threads on that are also un-annodized
- Tailcap boot has a bit of play, needs a few mm of pressure before you can feel the switch


*added*
- compared against iTP again at the 2:30 mark, its dropped on ceiling bounce. perceivable difference, only if you're looking for it. will check again later.
- we are at the 4 hour mark. Ceiling bounce LOOKS to be half output. Eneloop appears to carry decent performance... Again, not at the level advertised but its holding at a decently solid level. Scrolling down to the lower brightness levels, I see a universal drop in output. the Minimum used to just cutout after the brightness dimmed, but now the LED ramps all the way down (no visible abrupt cutoff of output).
- battery replacement flashing, occured at 3:40. Started runtime test at 22:10. 5.5 hrs til warning, so not entirely horrendous... Its within spec for the light output I guess, but the max just isn't programmed correctly.


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## qazx (Nov 28, 2011)

thanks for doing that test surnia, i suspected jetbeams claim of 110lumens for almost 4 hours sounded way too good to be true, which is disappointing as its the only thing that got me interested about this light. its way beyond even what zebralight can squeeze out of an eneloop AA.
4 hours at somewhere between 40-60 lumens sounds much more in line with every other xpg, xml AA light.


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## Surnia (Nov 28, 2011)

qazx said:


> thanks for doing that test surnia, i suspected jetbeams claim of 110lumens for almost 4 hours sounded way too good to be true, which is disappointing as its the only thing that got me interested about this light. its way beyond even what zebralight can squeeze out of an eneloop AA.
> 4 hours at somewhere between 40-60 lumens sounds much more in line with every other xpg, xml AA light.



Agreed, which is why I also bought it. strongly contemplating returning it, for exactly the thing you mentioned: a Zebra...

*edit* my other problem is, my D10 is still brighter than the RRT-0 on Eneloops, so it essentially renders my entire Eneloop collection useless on it...


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## lumenati (Mar 24, 2012)

I've had my RRT-0 since Dec. '11. Always ran on AW protected 16340 with a dozen or so recharges. On high for less than a minute at a time. No issues. Brighter than my 4Sevens TurboX but with less throw (expected). I love my little RRT-0 XM-L. It has been my EDC for nearly four months now and I use it every day. I'm still impressed with it (as is everyone I show it to).


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## herosemblem (Oct 5, 2012)

Question. I use CR123 primaries in my RRT0 XML.
Mine does not dial down very low. I thought it was supposed to dial down to something like .005 lumens. 
It will dial down low, but definitely _not _firefly or moonlight. The lowest mine goes is probably 3-5 lumens. Just a tad less bright than Fauxton keychain lights. Looking at the emitter on its lowest setting is painful and I can only do so for a second.

In contrast, my Sunwayman V11R, on CR123 primaries, dials down to a truly low low-- firefly. I can stare at the emitter of my V11R, and I can do the same with my Thrunite TN12 on _its _firefly mode. All 3 lights use the XML emitter.

Thoughts? I purchased this light used, and included with it was an "AW IMR 14500 3.7v 600mAh" battery, which apparently has been used to power this light at some points in the past. Could this battery have messed with the circuitry? 

In any case, I love the light. It's every bit as bright as my U2 V11R; I just wish it could dial down to a firefly level. I like that the rotary ring is actually findable, unlike the V11R's ring.


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## herosemblem (Oct 7, 2012)

People who own the RRT0 XML. 
Using CR123 primaries, does your light dial down to a truly low low?
Mine does not. Thank you.


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## peterharvey73 (Oct 8, 2012)

No, the RRT-0 doesn't dial down to a really low low.
Not sure why?
It would be nice if it did.
It doesn't really bother me.

I know that my RRT-01 truly dials down to a really low low...


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## herosemblem (Oct 8, 2012)

Thank you so much, Peter. I was concerned that I read so many statements where people claimed their rrt0 xmls dialed down to a firefly-like (sub-lumen) brightness level, and mine did not.


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## JohnnyBravo (Dec 8, 2012)

Just got my RRT0 XML yesterday. I'm using it w/ an AW IMR 16340. The supplied pocket clip doesn't fit right; the semi-circle doesn't "snap" onto the barrel straight. Instead of a 90 degree fit, it's more like 87-89 degress. So I'm temporarily using my silver PA10's clip. I do have the screw-in titanium clip on order. I used an Eneloop in my PA10 on the 1 lumen mode and compared it to my RRT's lowest mode. I'd say the PA10's 1 lumen mode is quite a bit brighter than the RRT's lowest. Looking directly at my PA10's emitter is uncomfortable and does partially blind me; however, on the RRT's lowest, I can clearly see the dimness of the emitter, and can study and see the lines of the LED w/out any discomfort. I'm certain it's just a fraction of the brightness of my PA10's "1 lumen" super low. This is my first rotary/control ring light, but my favorite UI so far. I prefer the smooth bezel and flat tail cap over my PA10's crenated bezel and "U" shaped tail cap...


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## Beckler (Dec 18, 2012)

*Questions*

Just got an RRT0 XML and had a few concerns for current owners.

-It says XML 550Lm on the box, but any other way to confirm that it is? I know there were older LED's in this model also.
-The lower body section is slightly different color anodizing than the head/AA-tube. Normal?
-LED isn't centered at all, though I don't really see any effects. The outer fringe of the beam is some odd slightly different color though. Don't remember what.
-The control ring is smooth for the most part, but occasionally, if you press down on it (as though using a flashlight side button), it will bind up and not even move really. Is this normal? 
-The ring also has noticeable play (not excessive) in the "up-down" direction--towards and away from the surface of the flashlight body, if you will.
-Lastly, the SOS mode is annoying so far. It keeps coming on when I don't want it. I know it's because I'm just playing with the brightness levels, but who knows if it will stay annoying. They need a better method for this mode that I think no one has actually used, EVER. 

Feel free to comment. Also, about the previous posts about the low level. Perhaps it's different running a AA cell. Mine goes very low (can barely see it on). I haven't tried it with 123 cell yet.


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