# surefire 6p



## vicv (Mar 24, 2013)

Hi all. Ive been trying to find info on these lights as I've found one for a good price. All the info I can find has to do with upgrading to LED's which I don't want to do as I wish to keep it as an incan. So I see they use cr123 batts and rcrs will flash the bulb. Even Lifepo4 cells seem to be a problem even with their lower voltage. Any rechargeable solution? Also I've seen it recommended to bore out the body and use 18650 cells. But that's only 1 3.7v battery when it need 2x3v batteries. Wouldn't that greatly underdrive the bulb? And lastly I've found other assemblies to install but that could get expensive when needing to change incan bulbs when they need it. Where to find just $3 or so bulbs instead of entire assemblies? Like just replacing to a factory bulb?


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## scout24 (Mar 24, 2013)

Welcome! Factory bulbs are not $3.00, the P60 lamp assemblies cost a bit more than that. Lumensfactory, who has been around here for a long time, has their HO-4 and EO-4 lamps that will run on 17670 cells which should fit your 6P without boring. They are 12+/- dollars apiece, but you end up saving serious $$$ using the rechargable 17670's. Enjoy knowing your 6P is probably the most versatile platform in the flashlight universe...


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## fivemega (Mar 24, 2013)

*There are many choices and depending on your needs and budget you can choose from:

Single cell rechargeable incand

2 cell rechargeable incand

High output single cell rechargeable incand

Bored out 6P bodies

Custom made several size bodies

And many other choices.*


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## vicv (Mar 24, 2013)

Thanks. I went to their website and had a hard time navigating it because I couldn't find the "p" assemblies. What I meant about cheap bulbs is can't you just install a new bulb like maglites instead of buying a whole assembly? I don't need a new spring and all that when the bulb goes just a new bulb. And thank you for the links five mega. I'm currently reading http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...arison-chart&p=1970369&viewfull=1#post1970369 which has a wealth of knowledge and I'll check out the links you provided when I'm done


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## fivemega (Mar 24, 2013)

vicv said:


> can't you just install a new bulb like maglites instead of buying a whole assembly?



*That was a good idea but you are little late:

FM G2 D26

FM G4 D26*


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## vicv (Mar 24, 2013)

Oh I see. So you made adaptors but not anymore. I don't have the light yet so I didn't know it wasn't designed to replace just the bulb


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## Arm and Leg (Mar 24, 2013)

fivemega said:


> *FM G2 D26*





> Extreme high output.


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## fivemega (Mar 24, 2013)

*I suggest learn how to use search engine and you will get much more choices or ideas.

Beefy heat sinked bezel

McClicky installed tail cap

Stock tail cap*


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## scout24 (Mar 24, 2013)

Fivemega- Thank you for pointing out the lower cost rechargable 10w replacement lamp assemblies. I was unaware of them until now!


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## vicv (Mar 25, 2013)

Agreed. Good link. The more I read about these the more I'm convinced I want one. I'm actually now looking at the solarforce L2 series as they take 18650's and are apparently very good quality for the price and a good way for me to get my foot in the door for these p60 based lights. So can they run on AW flat top cells? And reading the compatability on Lumens Factory website their 4V incan assemblies don't look like they work with 6p/9p or other lights but a select few. I thought these worked with any p60 light?


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## TIMEBNDIT (Mar 25, 2013)

interesting options, didn't know I could do so much


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## Brigadier (Mar 26, 2013)

Another option is a SF P90 or LF HO-9/EO-9/IMR-9 and IMR16340's if you do not wish to bore the body.


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## vicv (Mar 26, 2013)

I like the regular sized body and would rather run 18650's. Can the solarforce take aw flat top cells or is it button top only?


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## InvisibleFrodo (Mar 2, 2015)

I'm wondering if the surefire p60 will run on an 18650 battery. I know it may be underdriven, but I'm not looking for tactical brightness. What I want to know is if it will work. I'm hoping for 40 - 50 lumens...


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## Timothybil (Mar 2, 2015)

It will work, but try a very yellow about 25 lumens. I was testing various LED D26 dropins in an original G2 I picked up, and inadvertently put the P60 back in with my 16650 cell. It worked, and it would probably run for a real long time, but it was not very bright at all, and very yellow. I don't think you would be happy with it at all. The P60 is really only good with two CR123s. Two LiIon will pop it, even with the 3.2v rated cells. You could check with Vinh and see if there is anything he can do for you, or contact Lumens Factory and see if they have an incandescent bulb they could put in a P60 shell. It wouldn't be cheap, but it will keep it incandescent.


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## Grizzman (Mar 2, 2015)

I'm not able to accurately measure lumens, but I can measure lux via ceiling bounce test in my small 1/2 bath. A P60 delivers 27 lux from two CR123s (showing 3.15v at rest) and 15 lux from a fully charged Samsung INR18650-25R.


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## fivemega (Mar 3, 2015)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> I'm wondering if the surefire p60 will run on an 18650 battery. I know it may be underdriven


*Fully recharged IMR 18650 will do slightly better (less underdriven) compare to protected 18650
Best choice for rechargeable P60 is 4 NiMH (Eneloop)
For slightly overdriven P60 use 2P/2S primary CR123A*


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## InvisibleFrodo (Mar 12, 2015)

I tried it and the p60 works with 1x18650 lmr. As long as I recharge the battery by 4.0 or 3.9v the p60 seems to work pretty well. I have also tried a p90 with 2x18350 lmr. This seemed pretty bright and I'm not actually sure if this setup is under driving, overdriving, or running the p90 "just right". Any opinions?


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## Timothybil (Mar 12, 2015)

With the P90 you are just about evenly matched. From what I understand, the standard CR123, rated at 3v, actually drops to 2.5v or so under load. So three CR123a cells will really be delivering somewhere around 7.5v to 8v, which is what the p90 was designed to use. A freshly recharged 18350 will deliver 4.2v, and slowly drop down to its end voltage, which should be no more than 3.5v. So two freshly charged 18350s will start at 8.4v and slowly drop to 7v, matching very closely what the p90 is looking for. You might be running a slight risk of prematurely aging the P90 with fresh cells, but I think it would be worth it to get the full output without having to use primary cells.


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## cland72 (Mar 12, 2015)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> I tried it and the p60 works with 1x18650 lmr. As long as I recharge the battery by 4.0 or 3.9v the p60 seems to work pretty well. I have also tried a p90 with 2x18350 lmr. This seemed pretty bright and I'm not actually sure if this setup is under driving, overdriving, or running the p90 "just right". Any opinions?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Candlepowerforums



FM is probably the authority here, but I've read that the P90 is only slightly overdriven, and is a great option to use with two lithium ions.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Mar 13, 2015)

I have some very high end battery chargers, and one thing I was considering is setting the charger to peak each cell at 4.1v instead of 4.2v Its really not a huge difference, but I figure it will still help take the edge off of freshly charged cells. Plus as an added bonus that should help extend cell cycle life...


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## lightsdog (Mar 25, 2015)

This information is helpful in determining how to upgrade my 6P.

Thanks.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Apr 23, 2015)

I've been finding a lot of sources that say Xenon bulbs are able to be dimmed with no ill effects. In fact, all of those sources say it extends the life of the bulb... So I'm thinking the single rechargeable cell probably can't shorten the service life the bulb.


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## cland72 (Apr 23, 2015)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> I've been finding a lot of sources that say Xenon bulbs are able to be dimmed with no ill effects. In fact, all of those sources say it extends the life of the bulb... So I'm thinking the single rechargeable cell probably can't shorten the service life the bulb.



Here is a post that kind of goes along with your topic. I'm not educated enough to know the difference between xenon and halogen bulbs, but this might be pertinent information.



Doug Owen said:


> js said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a general rule of thumb: for the highest output for a given power for a halogen incandescent the rated life of the lamp is on the order of 10-30 hours, and just off that peak the lifetime jumps to 50+ hours. Sacrifice just a little more lumens/watt and you can get hundreds and even thousands of hours.
> ...


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## Andy the Aussie (Apr 24, 2015)

I still have the 6P and 6Zs I bought new when they were the pight to have, you know, both still work well for most tasks. The more I read the more I lean of the potential...  And the $$$s !!


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## InvisibleFrodo (Nov 28, 2017)

So far so good with my plan to under drive the surefire bulb. My research I've done reading on the topic sounds like xenon and halogen are a bit different. I'm still on the same bulb I was on when I originally posted in this thread. My next idea is to try running a K2 energy battery as the voltage is much lower than a typical li-ion.


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## bykfixer (Nov 28, 2017)

Look at this guy reporting back in 2.5 years later. :thumbsup: 
Definitely let us know how the K2 fuel goes please.

Long live the 6P.


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## scout24 (Nov 28, 2017)

I went the other way, though an underdriven P60 does hold some appeal. I've got two matched pairs of 18350's that power a P91 in my favorite black bored Oveready 6P. It was coated by Oveready, so all the engraving is all stealth. 10 minutes of awesome output and color temp per set of cells. Good handwarmer for dog walking this time of year...


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## InvisibleFrodo (Nov 29, 2017)

Haha!! I did the exact same thing in an OVEREADY bored out C2 CENTURION. A 9P bulb in a 6P sized light driving the bulb with two Li-ions. Technically, you are doing the same thing. That 9P bulb is designed for 3 disposable A123's. They would start out at about 9 volts with the 3 of them. If you charge your 18350s to 4.2 volts each, you will be starting off at 8.4 volts. Lately I've been charging cells up to 4.1 volts each as it sounds like. This practice will have payoffs in cell cycle life from decreasing voltage stress. That would start you off at 8.2 volts on fresh cells. Nice and slightly under driven for a 9 volt bulb.


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## fivemega (Nov 29, 2017)

scout24 said:


> I've got two matched pairs of 18350's that power a P91


*That's very bright 6P but run time is very short.
By adding 35mm to length (9P size) you will get much more run time (800mAh 18350 vs 2000mAh 18500)
If bored out 6P is final decision, P61 with single 3600mAh 18650 will run much longer with less output. I prefer this to 2x18350 P90*


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## vicv (Nov 30, 2017)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> Haha!! I did the exact same thing in an OVEREADY bored out C2 CENTURION. A 9P bulb in a 6P sized light driving the bulb with two Li-ions. Technically, you are doing the same thing. That 9P bulb is designed for 3 disposable A123's. They would start out at about 9 volts with the 3 of them. If you charge your 18350s to 4.2 volts each, you will be starting off at 8.4 volts. Lately I've been charging cells up to 4.1 volts each as it sounds like. This practice will have payoffs in cell cycle life from decreasing voltage stress. That would start you off at 8.2 volts on fresh cells. Nice and slightly under driven for a 9 volt bulb.



A p90 or p91 is being driven harder on a pair of li ions than on 3x lithium primaries. May only be 8.2v compared to 9v but those primaries have a big voltage drop under load. A p91 would probably drop them to 2.2v a piece. That's 6.6v. 2 18350 would be around 7.8-8v under load


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## vicv (Nov 30, 2017)

fivemega said:


> *That's very bright 6P but run time is very short.
> By adding 35mm to length (9P size) you will get much more run time (800mAh 18350 vs 2000mAh 18500)
> If bored out 6P is final decision, P61 with single 3600mAh 18650 will run much longer with less output. I prefer this to 2x18350 P90*



I do like the 3 cell size. Too big for a pocket but great for carrying around. Personally though for an 18650 id go with a lumens factory eo4 instead of a p61. Cheaper, easier to find as they're still being made, and brighter/whiter. Especially as the cell discharges


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## bykfixer (Nov 30, 2017)

You can find P60 modules on eBay these days for $8-10. They are typically known as "pulled", which is where someone bought a 6P with the intention of installing an LED. May not be an abundance of them every time you look but they show up often (and sell quickly). 

The lumens factory module is a nice alternative. And like Scout said, can be obtained for the 65 mm long rechargeable. (FYI 17 is the 17mm diameter and 650 means 65mm long with a silent 0 on the end)
16650's are getting pretty good too. 

If you ever consider going LED with it a Malkoff warm, low-low (M61 WLL) is pretty close to the P60 tint with 10+ hours runtime. Yeah, it's like $40 going in, but if you use the light a lot it'll pay for itself quickly. If you're like me and don't use it often you can tell your friends "3 years later I'm still using the same batteries".


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## cp2315 (Dec 1, 2017)

I know this is not a 6p, but here is my incan setup I used recently. A pretty worn solarforce L2m with a surefire P60 drop in powered by a 18350. It is not as bright as P60 should be, at around 15-25 lumens. It works great in the house as my EDC in PJ.


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## vicv (Dec 10, 2017)

That's a neat idea. I had mark @lumens factory make me a couple custom drop in in the d26 size but with the e1r bulb. Thats like 15 lumens but still driven properly for a nice cct. I also use it for navigating the house in the dark. I just pulled the cell to check voltage. Still at 3.85v. Been in there for 6 months and used almost every night with a 30q Samsung cell


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## Lumen83 (Dec 20, 2017)

Will the 6p run on 18650s (assuming its bored) with the original incandescent p60 lamp? Anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?


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## vicv (Dec 20, 2017)

Two posts ago it was mentioned as usable and cp2315 liked it......


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## Lumen83 (Dec 20, 2017)

vicv said:


> Two posts ago it was mentioned as usable and cp2315 liked it......



I believe that was an 18350 though. Not an 18650.


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## vicv (Dec 20, 2017)

They are identical besides length. An 18350 fits in a one cell body. An 18650 fits in a 2 cell body


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## bykfixer (Dec 20, 2017)

Lumen83 said:


> Will the 6p run on 18650s (assuming its bored) with the original incandescent p60 lamp? Anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?



Yes it can run on the 18650, but not at full brighness. The 3.7-ish volts of the 18650 will light a P60 same as an 18350 mentioned above.


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## Lumen83 (Dec 20, 2017)

Oh thats good to know. Thanks for the info. For my purposes, the beam is a little bright for a one level light anyway. So, this just might be perfect for me.


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## fivemega (Dec 20, 2017)

Lumen83 said:


> Will the 6p run on 18650s (assuming its bored) with the original incandescent p60 lamp? Anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?



*You may want to read this.
You can also try 3.7 volt version D26 or P60 type incandescent bulb using single 18650. Worth to try.*


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## Lumen83 (Dec 22, 2017)

fivemega said:


> *You may want to read this.
> You can also try 3.7 volt version D26 or P60 type incandescent bulb using single 18650. Worth to try.*



Thanks for the info. I picked up a lumens factory LED and Incan, both 3.7v to try with the 18650. Also picked up an l2m body like the one above to try with an 18350. Hoping this gives me some pretty cool options.


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## Lumen83 (Dec 29, 2017)

Well, I tried the 6p with two rcr123a batteries and as soon as I turned it on it burnt out a p61 lamp. Then, I put a p60 in it and the same thing happened. Any idea why? I thought they were the same voltage as cr123a


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## bykfixer (Dec 29, 2017)

Stock. Pure stock down to the 2009 batteries.


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## vicv (Dec 29, 2017)

Lumen83 said:


> Well, I tried the 6p with two rcr123a batteries and as soon as I turned it on it burnt out a p61 lamp. Then, I put a p60 in it and the same thing happened. Any idea why? I thought they were the same voltage as cr123a



Your p60 runs on around 5.2v as two 3v batteries drop voltage under load. Your rcr cells are going to be about 8v under load. You need a p90 lamp. Or p91 if using imr 16340 cells


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## fivemega (Dec 29, 2017)

Lumen83 said:


> Well, I tried the 6p with two rcr123a batteries and as soon as I turned it on it burnt out a p61 lamp. Then, I put a p60 in it and the same thing happened. Any idea why? I thought they were the same voltage as cr123a


*Rechargeable RCR123A is nominally 3.7 volt while primary CR123A is nominally 3 volt battery. Keep in mind they are different animal with different voltage.
Genuine P60 and P61 are designed to work with pair of primary CR123A or 5 volt. Using pair of rechargeable RCR123A will overvolt and kill both bulbs.
Please pay attention to CR123A and RCR123A.*


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## Lumen83 (Dec 30, 2017)

Oh, I thought they were both the same voltage. Whoops! That will do it. I'm going to need to find some incan lamps that can handle the RCRs because Im tired of buying primaries for EDC lights.


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## vicv (Dec 30, 2017)

Grab yourself a lumens factory sr9 and two rcrs. Should be around the same or similar to a p60 but rechargable. Check out 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ndescent-guide-compatability-comparison-chart


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## fivemega (Dec 30, 2017)

Lumen83 said:


> Oh, I thought they were both the same voltage. Whoops! That will do it. I'm going to need to find some incan lamps that can handle the RCRs because Im tired of buying primaries for EDC lights.


*Assuming your 6P is bored out to use 18mm cells, install a single rechargeable protected 18650 and this bulb which is rated at 3.7 volt.
If you want to use pair of rechargeable CRC123 then this 7.4 volt version bulb will work fine.
Depends on your budget, there are more expensive options too.*


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## LiftdT4R (Jan 4, 2018)

I probably would have went with the 7.4 volt lamp if I had it to do again but I've been using these 9V cheapies from fleabay for a while now with 16340s and I really like them. All in I was around $30 for 3 lamps and 4 batteries. That's $15 a light. For not very much money at all you can ditch the expensive CR123s and go with these rechargables. The beams look identical to a P60 running on 2 CR 123s.

EDIT: Anyone know where to get lenses for these old style Surefires?


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## Lumen83 (Jan 17, 2018)

I still haven't tried the tin foil but I've decided not to use the surefire lamps anyway. Haven't recieved the lumens factory bulbs, but I got a couple of cheap no name ones and they work great.


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## vicv (Jan 17, 2018)

The 7.4v and 9v bulbs are the same


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## Lumen83 (Jan 24, 2018)

Anyone know if there are any incan P60 style lamps that are more floody or have a bigger hot spot? Not sure if this is possible. But, I prefer floody lamps and a floodier incan would be perfect.


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## carrot (Jan 24, 2018)

Lumen83 said:


> Anyone know if there are any incan P60 style lamps that are more floody or have a bigger hot spot? Not sure if this is possible. But, I prefer floody lamps and a floodier incan would be perfect.



The P61 would be it, as it has a longer tungsten filament (and 50% more output), but it burns through batteries twice as quick! You could also glaze the lens of the flashlight.


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## Lumen83 (Jan 24, 2018)

carrot said:


> The P61 would be it, as it has a longer tungsten filament (and 50% more output), but it burns through batteries twice as quick! You could also glaze the lens of the flashlight.



Glazing the lens might be a good way to go for me, as I would like the run 18650s and would like longer run times than the p61. Any idea how I would go about doing that?


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## carrot (Jan 24, 2018)

Lumen83 said:


> Glazing the lens might be a good way to go for me, as I would like the run 18650s and would like longer run times than the p61. Any idea how I would go about doing that?



Hydroflouric acid is very toxic but easily available and useful for etching glass. Warning: do not ever touch HF with bare hands!

Searching CPF reveals some information too. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?210256-frosting-glass-lenses


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## Woods Walker (Jan 24, 2018)

Lumen83 said:


> Will the 6p run on 18650s (assuming its bored) with the original incandescent p60 lamp? Anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?



You don't need to bore it. Just toss in a 16650 KeepPower protected lithium ion. It will not be as bright using a P60 lamp because of the lower voltage but will be a perfectly functional light.


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## vicv (Jan 24, 2018)

True but I'd still go for a 3.7v lamp. Much nicer than a p60 on a single rechargable


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## Timothybil (Jan 26, 2018)

Lumen83 said:


> Glazing the lens might be a good way to go for me, as I would like the run 18650s and would like longer run times than the p61. Any idea how I would go about doing that?


The last time I was on the site Flashlightlens offered frosted lenses. Others have posted about film to adhere to a regular lens to frost/diffuse the light beam.

Personally, if I was going to do anything like that I would make sure I had a source for or had in hand a regular replacement lens so that if anything went wrong I could restore the light to its original state.


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## DRoc (Jan 26, 2018)

P61 with an 18650 works well. Not fantastic, but it's a good compromise, I can vouch for this. Just ensure to use a high quality 18650 with good capacity, relatively new. I use an M2 bezel with my setup as P61 lamps are relatively uncommon these days.


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## Timothybil (Jan 26, 2018)

DRoc said:


> P61 with an 18650 works well. Not fantastic, but it's a good compromise, I can vouch for this. Just ensure to use a high quality 18650 with good capacity, relatively new. I use an M2 bezel with my setup as P61 lamps are relatively uncommon these days.


You can always go to Lumens Factory and get an HO-6 or SHO-6 if you can't find any P61s at a decent price.


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## DRoc (Jan 26, 2018)

Timothybil said:


> You can always go to Lumens Factory and get an HO-6 or SHO-6 if you can't find any P61s at a decent price.



Great advice...I will keep this in mind when my 41 P61's run low. I am not sure if incandescent will even be offered by then...I will probably just start using the 175 P60's I have and run them underdriven!
As for LF, I love them and use them all the time as well. I particularly like the HO4:twothumbs


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## fivemega (Jan 28, 2018)

DRoc said:


> I will probably just start using the 175 P60's I have and run them underdriven!



*If you don't want to underdrive P60 and still keep rechargeable, best choice is 4 NiMH AA(Eneloop)





============


For slightly overdriven P60 use 2P/2S primary CR123A*


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## Woods Walker (Jan 29, 2018)

But then it's no longer a 6P. Beyond that it looks dang cool!


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