# Lose the Solarc HID "Donut"



## bfg9000 (Apr 21, 2006)

As everyone who has a WA Solarc 10w HID powered light knows, the bulb projects a dark donut in the spill (NOT a donut _hole_ in the hotspot, but a large dark spot in the spill filled in the center by the searing hotspot). I determined this donut was formed by the frosted tip on the bulb, and when the outer envelope on my Solarc began to fog up (Not sure why--Progold vapors burning?) I set out to remove it. Here is the subject MagHID, you can see the reflection of the tip in the MOP:





Closeup of the Solarc, you can see the envelope is vented on the bottom:




Oops, the envelope fell off! Actually, I used forceps and _very carefully_ cracked my way around the $70 bulb from the vents, and viola!




Note that it fits in a *SMALL HOLE REFLECTOR* now, here a LS M2. That HID capsule is so small it makes the 0.300" hole look big:




Beamshot of the smooth spill, sans donut:




The UCL will not pass UV, so the only concern is if the bulb explodes, the lens and reflector will probably be toast, because there is no envelope to contain it.


----------



## DFiorentino (Apr 21, 2006)

Very nice. I was just playing with mine last night (  ) and was wonder how to fix it. Looks like I'll order some spare bulbs today in preperation for the ones I'll break tonight :lolsign: 

-DF


----------



## cmacclel (Apr 21, 2006)

Nice................. I always wondered about this. Too bad you didn't post before and after beamshots.

Mac


----------



## bfg9000 (Apr 21, 2006)

Here is the same bulb in the same light before surgery, using the MOP "as delivered" by waterfish/ufokillerz:




You can clearly see the donut between the spot and outer spill. Please ignore the bright corona ring--it's there because I was dumb to pick silver for a MagHID and it is reflecting off the bezel edge. The M2 with its "shelf" took care of that!

I've actually run the modified bulb for months without issue, but waited until I got the M2 reflector to post, because it looks really stoopid with the giant 5/8" hole. Beamshot of the cut bulb looks fine though with the MOP, well except for the corona ring:


----------



## cmacclel (Apr 21, 2006)

I wonder if you could just use some glass polish to get rid of the frosted part of the bulb. I wonder how fragile your lamp is now. 


Mac


----------



## bfg9000 (Apr 21, 2006)

That would be my first choice, except mine somehow got fogged on the inside of the envelope. The inner capsule was not supported by the envelope, and I've dropped mine a few times since (replaced the bezel).

If you do try to polish the glass, be sure to tape the vents up well to keep anything from getting inside. I'd use that windshield scratch remover (a ceramic powder that is mixed into a slurry) and a felt buffing wheel.

The improvement in beam quality is worth the effort.


----------



## cmacclel (Apr 21, 2006)

What I don't understand is if the lamp is better without the frosting why would Welch Allyn frost it in the first place? Hmm.

Mac


----------



## DFiorentino (Apr 21, 2006)

Maybe WA's inteded usage necessitates the frosting due to glare?

:shrug: 
-DF


----------



## cue003 (Apr 21, 2006)

I wonder if you can use a dremel with a cutting wheel to get the casing off? I would rather use the smaller hold reflector myself to be honest. So any ideas would be appreciated to get the glassing casing off. I am looking forward to using FM 3.5 inch head when it arrive but I had ordered the one with the 10mm opening so the WA with glass casing will not fit.

Thanks again. Looking forward to suggestions. Would even consider sending to someone if they feel comfortable removing it for me.

Curtis


----------



## Lips (Apr 21, 2006)

Only bad thing about that would be for the bulb to explode and ruin $250 worth of 3.5 magic.


----------



## cue003 (Apr 21, 2006)

Lips said:


> Only bad thing about that would be for the bulb to explode and ruin $250 worth of 3.5 magic.



Point taken. What would be somethings that may cause the bulb to explode?

Curtis


----------



## Lips (Apr 21, 2006)

Probably dropping it while on would be pretty bad... Mine almost fell off a tripod flat-top while taking beam-shots.

I will probably chance it also. Mine is LS with 10mm opening so no go for WA. This is good news for me. Mini Mini HID Polished Bare Alum with Chrome 3.5, Very Cool!

I was thinking of trying to change to 15mm but glad to see this as an option. I would rather risk dropping or bulb explosion than changing hole size.


----------



## cmacclel (Apr 21, 2006)

cue003 said:


> Point taken. What would be somethings that may cause the bulb to explode?
> 
> Curtis



I know I sure way to make the bulb explode......dropping it 


Mac


----------



## chesterqw (Apr 21, 2006)

i wonder if i sneeze, will the bulb break off ?

that is too dang dangerous ...

they have that envelop for a reason. to trap glass fragments if it explode,to protect the bulb from "other stuff" and, reduce glare and hopefully smooth the beam out a LITTLE.


----------



## DFiorentino (Apr 21, 2006)

What about a compromise...just cut off the frosted tip. 

-DF


----------



## cmacclel (Apr 21, 2006)

DFiorentino said:


> What about a compromise...just cut off the frosted tip.
> 
> -DF




I'm thinking thats Impossible  Maybe I'll try polishing one.

Mac


----------



## bfg9000 (Apr 21, 2006)

The envelope gives you something safe to hold onto while you're changing the bulb, probably contains explosions, prevents you from frying a ballast (by shorting thousands of volts to an aluminum reflector), and filters UV so it is generally preferable to keep it if possible. The increased light from using a small hole reflector here really isn't too noticeable, because it all goes into the spot that's already searing hot. But it's just so undeniably cool:





A black bezel would get rid of the corona too--if it was one of Mac's MagHIDs with the unpotted ballast, I could have changed the body to a black one. But the pictured M2 worked out perfectly for this application.

Don't forget the opposite option of frosting the envelope *lower* until the donut size exactly matches the spillbeam. Don't go too low unless you want a high-powered floodlight.


----------



## Ray_of_Light (Apr 22, 2006)

I have the UK LC100 and I has some experience with the Solarc bulb.

Aside the obvious, about explosion containment and UV filtering, the glass shield has another purpose, and that is to control the temperature of the HID capsule.

You can easily note this effect by blowing some cold air on the capsule (with the shield): the emitted light gets bluer. If you manage to seal the vent at the bottom, the light will get reddish. 
The HID capsule, working outside the range it is designed for, will have its life shortened.

Many professional HID appliances uses temperature controlled blower, to mantain the bulb within a close temperature range. The vented glass shield on the Solarc is a trade off, but works.

Hope this helps

Anthony


----------



## ddaadd (Apr 25, 2006)

Ray_of_Light said:


> I have the UK LC100 and I has some experience with the Solarc bulb.
> 
> Aside the obvious, about explosion containment and UV filtering, the glass shield has another purpose, and that is to control the temperature of the HID capsule.
> 
> Anthony



:rock: Good info Anthony, hadn't heard about that before, but it makes sense now that I think of it



My Solarc bulb is color shifting on it's own alot, it will slowly keep getting 
bluish to a point then, suddenly blink to a reddish hue. then cycle like this every few minutes. 

Cool idea of polishing the frosted tip also.......Might give that a go.....


----------



## jashhash (Apr 26, 2006)

I too have thought of cutting off the envelope but not to improve the corona, I just want it to fit through the small hole of my AL reflector. Seems to me though that removing the envelope could possibly allow the arc to strike the AL reflector which could be verry dangerous. 
Here comes my rant:
Personally I feel let down by HID technology. I found the lamp extremely hard to focus, I hated how the arc would flicker causing earthquake beam. I hated the warmup time which makes the light impractical in emergencies or for quick spotting. I hated having to worry about letting the bulb cool down for 10 seconds before re-striking. I hated how the color would shift from red to blue which I found a bit distracting and disorienting. I would never cary the light for fear of dropping it and ruining a $70 bulb. Also I'm afraid to do much modding because I know that just one mistake and a 20,000 volt arc could turn my flashlight into a stun gun. Also I question the efficiency of those 10 watt lamps because after running one just 10 seconds the quartz bulb gets hot enough to glow orange. So for now I'll stick with hotwire.


----------



## bfg9000 (Aug 17, 2006)

After eight months, the color and output have not changed a bit and in fact the odd red pulsing it used to have when still equipped with an envelope and held at certain angles has never returned.

The volume of the Mag reflector inside the head does not look appreciably different than the parabolic configuration 10w WA HID bulb assemblies which do not come with such an envelope.

I'm starting to see a lot more non-WA 10w HID bike lights without the envelope like the NiteRider FireStorm ones, and now Ra has also performed this surgery on a WA bulb in a custom light so hopefully others will be able to report their experiences.


----------



## bombelman (Aug 17, 2006)

impressive guys !!


----------



## adamlau (May 9, 2008)

For those of you removing the outer envelope, *do not remove the potting from the base of the bulb!* I mistakenly thought bfg9000 removed the potting out to expose the black plastic surface beneath and proceeded to do the same. It was only after I exposed a few things I should not have that I took another look at the pictures and realized that bfg9000 had merely used a black disc to cover the reflector hole. Now I need another Solarc lamp for safe operation :mecry: ...


----------



## darkzero (May 9, 2008)

I'm thinking about removing my outer envelope too now but how fragile with it then be when removing the bulb? Is removing the bulb without the outer envelope still possible?




adamlau said:


> For those of you removing the outer envelope, *do not remove the potting from the base of the bulb!* I mistakenly thought bfg9000 removed the potting out to expose the black plastic surface beneath and proceeded to do the same. It was only after I exposed a few things I should not have that I took another look at the pictures and realized that bfg9000 had merely used a black disc to cover the reflector hole. Now I need another Solarc lamp for safe operation :mecry: ...


 
Did the lamp break or does it not light up anymore? Can't re-pot it?


----------



## adamlau (May 9, 2008)

Removing the bulb w/o the envelope will involve using degreased (99% anhydrous alcohol) forceps, preferably towards the base of the bulb. The lamp lights up w/o issue, I am just a bit wary of the bare wire leads I exposed when removing the potting :duh2: . I suppose I can pick up some Durapot 801, but would rather purchase a replacement lamp.


----------



## Flash Harry (May 9, 2008)

Just in case this all goes pear-shaped, where would be the best place to buy spare bulbs?


----------



## adamlau (May 9, 2008)

That was my next question as I cannot find anything online :duh2: ...


----------



## darkzero (May 9, 2008)

The UK Light Cannon 100 uses the Solarc. Best price I've seen online yet at Scuba.com (4th item down P/N 44701). I've never dealt with the vendor personally though. 

You can also buy directly from Welch Allyn but it's full price. M10N001-1


----------



## Patriot (May 9, 2008)

Um....actually it is very fragile to any force at all. If you start pulling on that tiny piece of glass, even at the base, it has a good chance of breaking. All you have to do is install a little piece of flexible plastic under the new lamp when you install it. You just leave a little ear of material hanging out from either side of the bulb holder. That way if you ever have to remove it you just pull up on those little tag ends. Just make sure that the material you choose is strong enough that it won't break when you pull up on it. Cutting the tag off of a t-shirt and then cutting that to a strip about 1/4" by 1" is just about right. The material is strong enough that it won't break either. 

The inner envelope's resistance to shock isn't effected in any way by removing the outer envelope. It's only more susceptible to direct forces once the outer envelope is removed.

*People with Mac's need to take special care* not to screw down the head too far when the outer envelope is removed. The inside of the glass lens will make contact with the tip of the bulb. With a small amount of torque to the mag head, the bulb can easily be broken at it's tapered point or waist, where the wire wraps around. Put a piece of labeling tape around the body near the base of the head as a reminder of maximum head depth when screwing down.


----------



## Nereus (May 9, 2008)

I have used the same solution with my MAG HID, see this thread. So far I haven't had any problems.

-N


----------



## bfg9000 (May 9, 2008)

There's no black disc in there; it's just in shadow because of the small hole reflector. If you turn the brightness of your monitor waaay up you can see the potting.

I like Patriot36's idea of an ejector ribbon as is found in many battery compartments. I had at the time considered leaving some shards of glass envelope to pull on, but then decided I wouldn't attempt to remove the bulb until it was dead anyway. I've had no issues with this mod for two years now.


----------



## LuxLuthor (May 9, 2008)

Having several of Mac's Elephant HID's, I'm not seeing the donut in a 3" reflector when I tighten head down....with existing glass envelope....so not seeing a reason to mess with it. I guess this is more of a concern with 2" wide reflector mods.

Also Ra's post about the outer envelope being purely safety related seems to differ with Anthony's explanation in post #18 above. It's hard to imagine they went to the trouble of putting second envelope, the vent, and frosting top solely for protection. :thinking:


----------



## Flash Harry (May 9, 2008)

Thanks for pointer to Scuba.com. Otherwise the Minihid would have ended up in a drawer somewhere if the bulb blew.



darkzero said:


> The UK Light Cannon 100 uses the Solarc. Best price I've seen online yet at Scuba.com (4th item down P/N 44701). I've never dealt with the vendor personally though.
> 
> You can also buy directly from Welch Allyn but it's full price. M10N001-1


----------



## cmacclel (May 9, 2008)

darkzero said:


> The UK Light Cannon 100 uses the Solarc. Best price I've seen online yet at Scuba.com (4th item down P/N 44701). I've never dealt with the vendor personally though.
> 
> You can also buy directly from Welch Allyn but it's full price. M10N001-1


 

www.brightguy.com I believe is a CPF Supporter and sells them for $85

http://www.brightguy.com/products/Light_Cannon_Lamp.php

Mac


----------



## Patriot (May 10, 2008)

Nereus said:


> I have used the same solution with my MAG HID, see this thread. So far I haven't had any problems.
> 
> -N



Nereus, you might enjoy a slight improvement in your beam with a smaller reflector hole.


----------



## larryk (May 10, 2008)

Are the 10 watt HID lamps used by MicroFire any good as a replacement ?


----------



## Patriot (May 10, 2008)

larryk said:


> Are the 10 watt HID lamps used by MicroFire any good as a replacement ?




From what Mac has said, there is no comparison between genuine WA bulbs and the chinese copies. Besides that I'm wondering how much less expensive they actually are since the the two bulbs listed for microfire are $80 and $85 each.


----------



## Flash Harry (May 11, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> www.brightguy.com I believe is a CPF Supporter and sells them for $85 http://www.brightguy.com/products/Light_Cannon_Lamp.php
> 
> Mac


 
I know I would prefer to buy them from a CPF Supporter.

Thanks.


----------



## larryk (May 11, 2008)

The reason I asked about the quality is that I bought a used MicroFire Warrior from a member a while back and it came with a spare bulb that I will never use. If someone needs one you can have it for $ 45.00 shipped in the US.


----------

