# My Shootout 4 shots



## mtbkndad (Jun 7, 2008)

Hi Everybody,
Here are my photos. There are quite a few and I did not want to do contact sheets so that the images would be larger and more useful for examination.
I have limited them to 640 pixels wide so that should help some with download time.
The target was the lowest horizontal cross bar of the tower 250 yards away. It was very challenging to get the beams centered on that bar from this distance. One problem is that HID hotspots are not always centered in the corona and this will change the appearance of the beam pattern slightly on the ground. I did my best to get a balance with the lights since I was doing the aiming of everything.

I have ordered the lights in terms of how well I felt they lit up their tiny ( the cross bar) target, regardless of how much overall lumens they put out, from lowest to highest.
I do not have all of the low powered mods in this post. It is already quite long in it’s current form.

Also, as is my custom, I did the shots from behind the lights so you can get a good idea of the total light output and beam pattern that each light produces.
My Canon S2 IS was set to f3.5, 3.2” . I leave the ISO standard and the color balance automatic. This is because I feel gives a truer picture of what I am actually seeing then if I use a daylight setting. The lights that look blueish or greenish really do look like that in comparison with the lights that don’t have the same appearance. This is particularly true of the lower powered lights that are really being used on a target either beyond their useable distance or at the fringe of their useable distance.







Control
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Enzite 10 watt
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Mac Mini HID
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28 Watt Black Widow
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Superlight 28 Watt
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Microfire K3500
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Beast 1
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Volcano Mod
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HB1 50 watt
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Yellow Jacket at 35 watts
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N30
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Secret 35 watt HID- Not available in US, but uses the same reflector and bulb as the up coming L35.
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Polarion P1 35 watt
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X990
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Polarion X1 (Mr. Ted Bear’s)
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Polarion PH 40
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Sam’s POB
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Polarion X1(mtbkndad’s)
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XeRay 50
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Polarion PH 50
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HB 2 New Bulb- At dinner I mentioned to Phil about HID’s getting brighter as the break in. He just built this one the day of the shoot.
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15 MCP Thor
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AI/Titanium Illuminator
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Yellow Jacket at 65 watts
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HB 2- Bulb with some burn in time
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Costco HID- The Costco HID and Mega Illuminator are very close and could go either way. I put them in this order because the Mega Illuminator was clearly aimed a bit high.
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Titanium Mega Illuminator
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BarnBurner 75 watt
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BarnBurner 80 watt
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Larry K. 600 watt
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Larry K. 1000 watt
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Costco 80 watt mod
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HyperBlitz
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300 watt Blackhawk Locator Light
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Now for the Cropped shots.





Enzite 10 watt
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Mac Mini HID
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28 Watt Black Widow
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SuperLight 28 watt
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Microfire K3500
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Beast 1
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Volcano Mod
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HB 1
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Yellow Jacket at 35 watts
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N30
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Secret 35 watt
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Polarion P1 35 watt
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X990
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Polarion X1 (Mr. Ted Bear’s)
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Polarion PH 40
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Sam’s POB
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Polarion X1(mtbkndad’s)
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XeRay 50
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Polarion PH 50
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HB 2 new bulb
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15 MCP Thor
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AI/Titanium Illuminator
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Yellow Jacket at 65 watts
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HB 2 50 watt bulb with some break in time
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Costco 35 watt HID
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Titanium Mega Illuminator
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BarnBurner 75 watt
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BarnBurner 80 watt
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Larry K. 600 watt
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Larry K. 1000 watt
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Costco 80 watt Mod
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HyperBlitz
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300 watt Blackhawk Locator light
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Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## adamlau (Jun 7, 2008)

Images courtesy of mtbkndad, stripped L to R in the order posted by mtbkndad:

*Wide Angle*​





*Cropped Images*​


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## dwminer (Jun 7, 2008)

Without doubt, some of the best serious of pictures I have seen. Thank you
Dave


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## Patriot (Jun 7, 2008)

Thank you mtbkndad!

Great pictures as you had earlier stated.

I noticed that the 80W BB was aimed lower than the 75W BB.

Same with the Costo and Illuminator, which you noted.

Always impressive performance from the X990 considering the technology and its age now.

The Eznite appears to be under performing for whatever reason. Even the spill is more dim than the Mac's.

Was the Locator filmed on the ground because of cable length or weight or both. That thing is astounding for the size of its reflector!

Thanks so much for posting these.


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## mtbkndad (Jun 7, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Thank you mtbkndad!
> 
> Great pictures as you had earlier stated.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the compliments.

The Locator was shot from the ground because it exceeded the 15 lb weight limit of the head on my tripod. I believe is it at least 24 lbs.

You are right about it's performance with it's tiny little roughly 5" reflector.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Patriot (Jun 7, 2008)

Bob, have you ever estimated the lumen output of the Locator or has it been previously discussed?

I wouldn't have any clue as to whether it's 45,000 lumens or 75,000 lumens...or more. I'm more impressed with that light than any light I've ever seen demonstrated before! Simply amazing.


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## JetskiMark (Jun 7, 2008)

Thank you for taking the time to post your excellent shots.

These are a pretty accurate representation of what I saw that night.

The Locator seems normal and everything else is lacking in comparison. If there were only a way to squeeze everything into a host the size of a POB.


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## DM51 (Jun 7, 2008)

A superb record. I've added it to the "Threads of Interest" sticky.


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## Illum (Jun 7, 2008)

:wow: :kewlpics:

Thats a heck of a difference between the two barnburners
I mean geez...5 watts [75 vs 80] but the 80 watt had such a smooth hotspot:huh:

Thread saved, thanks for the pics!


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## karlthev (Jun 7, 2008)

Just amazing! Thank you!


Karl


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## BVH (Jun 7, 2008)

Hi Daniel! Thank you! Been waiting for these.

I now wish I had held the Locator at the same height as all the other lights. Next time. The shot was taken when the LAPD cop had shown up and we were anxious to shoot the last light and head home. The beam color looks a bit more blue than I remember. I'm working on a very small and light-weight battery pack for it so I don't have to lug 100-plus pounds of SLA with me. I splurged and have 4 DeWalt 36 Volt A123 packs coming. Not sure if I will use them as-is or if I will strip them out and use them in the MEC Solderless Power Tubes (great little item - modelelectronicscorp.com). I should be able to go with up to 8S5P for maybe 12 to 15 minutes I'm guessing based on about 5 minutes with my CBP 4500, 28.8 nominal Volt pack from my LarryK14.

Patriot, the only guess I'd venture is IIRC, I've seen figures in the 90 to 95 Lumens per Watt figure for HID in a few places so based on that, maybe it puts out 27,000 Lumens using the lower number and 28,500 on the higher number? It sure seems like more but who knows. Also, if this ballast is non-regulated like the Welch Allyn 10-Watt, I'm only powering it with about 25 Volts instead of the 28 it is rated at. My A123 pack setup will be set up to provide 28 Volts or higher under load. We'll see if it makes a difference.


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## Patriot (Jun 8, 2008)

Interesting about the lumens Bob. Like you stated, it does seem like more. It there something special about this configuration that keeps it below 95 lumens per watt? Since they get more efficient, to a point, as the watts go up I figured this would be much higher 120+ lumens per watt if extrapolated out to 300 watts. But yeah, like I side I really don't have a clue and I don't know if it works like that. I don't know what the theoretical efficiency limit is. I sure would love to know though. Rigs like yours fascinate me.


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## mtbkndad (Jun 8, 2008)

JetskiMark said:


> The Locator seems normal and everything else is lacking in comparison. If there were only a way to squeeze everything into a host the size of a POB.



  

I know what you mean. I would love to have that much light even in a AI sized and weighted package. For that matter a Costco size light would even be fine for me.
That light has lots on unnecessary stuff for hand held use like the mechanical components for the joystick control, etc. I wonder how big the actual ballast is in that light? 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## seery (Jun 8, 2008)

Thanks for taking the time to share them with us. 

For me, the wide angle shots tell much more of the story.

:thumbsup:


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 8, 2008)

Yeah, I also join with many thanks in seeing how well this was done. This does seem like the best shootout to date, although having a few subject points to guage the distance is always good....but this type of field shot really shows the distance beam patterns. There are some really great performers here. Again, really great job. :thumbsup:


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## Flashanator (Jun 8, 2008)

:bow::bow::bow:

Awsome pics, 

Again you get a real representation of these lights with this quality.


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## mtbkndad (Jun 8, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> Yeah, I also join with many thanks in seeing how well this was done. This does seem like the best shootout to date, although having a few subject points to guage the distance is always good....but this type of field shot really shows the distance beam patterns. There are some really great performers here. Again, really great job. :thumbsup:



I would have liked some intermediary objects too, but this was the best location we looked at that night. I think I started to drive everybody a little crazy as each prior location that evening, I had reservations about and said "next". I believe this was the 4th spot we checked that night.
The freshly mowed and rained on field made a great canvas for the beams.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Flashanator (Jun 8, 2008)

How would I go about getting a 80w HID kit for my mega Illuminator?


That costco 80w HID is awsome. I love it.......


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## BVH (Jun 8, 2008)

The Locator ballast pretty much completely fills the bottom "can" of the light - length and width. I don't think even with everything cleaned out of the Costco HID, that the ballast would fit. It's an "open" ballast in that everything is exposed within the can.


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## BVH (Jun 8, 2008)

Added some pics of the ballast over here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/199764


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## JetskiMark (Jun 8, 2008)

With Daniel's permission, I made an animated gif rotating image of the hotwires. I will make some others later.

Any suggestions on which ones I should compare?


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## Mugrunty (Jun 9, 2008)

I don't have too many fancy ultra retena burning lights like the barn burner or anything...But I'd like to see a comparison between maybe the POB, Thor, and N30. Maybe. Man...and I thought my POB was bright. BTW, is a BB just an XeRay 80watt?


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## Mugrunty (Jun 9, 2008)

Oh yeah, and I hate this forum site. The more I look here and research all these lights...the more I want them. ITS EATING MY BRAIN! But I still love CPF.


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## larryk (Jun 9, 2008)

Excellent shots, thanks for sharing.


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## Patriot (Jun 9, 2008)

Mugrunty said:


> I don't have too many fancy ultra retena burning lights like the barn burner or anything...But I'd like to see a comparison between maybe the POB, Thor, and N30. Maybe. Man...and I thought my POB was bright. BTW, is a BB just an XeRay 80watt?





The BB (Barn Burner) is officially the Xe-Ray 75W, The XeRay 80W is a CPF member tweak and referred to as the BB Special. The short answer is that they're both Barn Burners but the 75W is the original.


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## mtbkndad (Jun 9, 2008)

You forgot that was my permission and the gift of your hyperblitz.    Just joking. 

That looks great.
Could you put one together of the N30 and the Secret 35 watt HID since that will be the reflector in the New L35.
That way people could see the difference first hand.
What is not as noticeable in this field is just how clean the spill and beam of the new reflector for the L35 will be in comparison to the N30. Actually I guess it is more accurate to say the texture of the field did a great job of cleaning up the N30 spill and diffusing the jagged edges of its corona. This reflector will also be replacing the reflector in N30's in the future.

Last of all, for anybody that is looking forward to the L35, I have about 15 hours on that bulb.
The light was sent to me for QC testing by the manufacturer and it came with a 6,000K bulb.
I put a spare 4200K bulb into it once I found out the reflector is the one that will be used in the L35. When I first put it in it was not as bright as my N30. Now it performs quite nicely.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Flashanator (Jun 9, 2008)

Hey Mtbkndad any chance of getting HQ pics of the 3 Titans 
(LK14 600w,LK 1000w, Blitz)???

Its just I have a REALLY big monitor & would love those 3 in HQ. :devil:

Mark how did u calculate the bulb lumens for your Blitz overdriven?

:thumbsup:


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## BVH (Jun 9, 2008)

Flash, tell me what viewing angle/profile you want of the LK14 -600 and I'll snap one and email it to you.


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## windstrings (Jun 9, 2008)

Great shots.... and good job on the antimated jetskimark.......

Without being there and needing a light I can actually carry easily that will burn long enough to be useful for a real task... I'm thinking I still favor the BB 80Watt...... But I guess I'm bias! 

Has anyone measured the runtime of the BB 80 yet?


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## windstrings (Jun 9, 2008)

Mugrunty said:


> Oh yeah, and I hate this forum site. The more I look here and research all these lights...the more I want them. ITS EATING MY BRAIN! But I still love CPF.



LOL!.... I have no idea what your talking about! :laughing:


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## larryk (Jun 9, 2008)

Is the LK 1000 using the dual filament 400 watt flood plus 600 watt spot ?


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## Flashanator (Jun 9, 2008)

Just the spot. 

the flood is actual 300w & Spot 700w.  (not sure if you knew?)


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## windstrings (Jun 9, 2008)

larryk said:


> Is the LK 1000 using the dual filament 400 watt flood plus 600 watt spot ?



OK... Larry, I'm still waiting for cooling fins on that thing and a battery backpack so you can get a 2 hour runtime!... LOL!

But I know you.. you would just make it even brighter and toss the runtime right? :laughing:


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## Flashanator (Jun 9, 2008)

Its bright enough....  I wont more runtime. MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dont worry in the Year 3000, there will Be Mag sized 10,000w HID's with 2hr runtime.

Future generations will be so lucky.


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## windstrings (Jun 9, 2008)

I agree... instant on... instant blinded!... LOL!.... Who needs a shotgun beside the bed for any possible prowlers?

That would be marketable if it had a decent runtime..... Just call it the "flamethrower"


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## JetskiMark (Jun 9, 2008)

larryk said:


> Is the LK 1000 using the dual filament 400 watt flood plus 600 watt spot ?



My version uses the GE 4556 single filament. I'm running 8s2p Li-Pos (8000mAh total) with a JM-SST soft start. Theoretical run time of about 15 minutes.


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## larryk (Jun 9, 2008)

windstrings said:


> OK... Larry, I'm still waiting for cooling fins on that thing and a battery backpack so you can get a 2 hour runtime!... LOL!
> 
> But I know you.. you would just make it even brighter and toss the runtime right? :laughing:



2 hour runtime ?
How strong is your back ?


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## JetskiMark (Jun 9, 2008)

mtbkndad said:


> ....Could you put one together of the N30 and the Secret 35 watt HID since that will be the reflector in the New L35.
> That way people could see the difference first hand....


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## mtbkndad (Jun 9, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> Hey Mtbkndad any chance of getting HQ pics of the 3 Titans
> (LK14 600w,LK 1000w, Blitz)???
> 
> Its just I have a REALLY big monitor & would love those 3 in HQ. :devil:
> ...



PM me your email address and I will send you the 3 photos you want.
Just give me credit if people ask about them.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## mtbkndad (Jun 9, 2008)

Great job with the gif Mark. :thumbsup:
That really shows how much more even the light distribution is in the Secret 35 watt HID as opposed to the N30.
Everybody remember this is the reflector that will be in the L35's and future N30's.

I am really looking forward to the L35's.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## JetskiMark (Jun 9, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> ....Mark how did u calculate the bulb lumens for your Blitz overdriven?....



I forgot which thread had the formulas, but here they are:

Re-Rating Formulas 
Va=applied voltage 
Vd=design voltage 
Color Temp (Va/Vd)^0.317ish
Current (Va/Vd)^0.55ish
Life (Vd/Va)^12ish
Lumens (Va/Vd)^3.5ish

64663 36V 16000 lumens
Vd = 36
Va = 39.4 at the pins
39.4/36 = 1.0944444444444444444444444444444^3.5 =
1.3714438259802617741465020981436 X
16000 rated lumens = 21943.101215684188386344033570298 re-rated bulb lumens.

I rounded up to 22000 because it is much easier to remember than 21943.101215684188386344033570298. I also believe that my bulb is special and actually achieves 22000.

This obviously is all speculation without actually using an integrating sphere.


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## JetskiMark (Jun 9, 2008)

Many flashaholics own the POB and the N30. I compared them to each other and to a Barn Burner 75 Watt.


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## BVH (Jun 9, 2008)

Mark, can the speed of change be slowed a bit, maybe 1.5 times as long on each pic?


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## JetskiMark (Jun 9, 2008)

Another comparison.


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## JetskiMark (Jun 9, 2008)

BVH said:


> Mark, can the speed of change be slowed a bit, maybe 1.5 times as long on each pic?



Yes. I have each frame set at one second now. I will make the next one at 1.5 seconds. I must have ADD though, one second seems a little slow to me.

Any comparison requests?


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## BVH (Jun 9, 2008)

No comparison requests. I like your choices!


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## Joe_torch (Jun 10, 2008)

Wow!
The X1 seems as bright as the PH50.
Great shootout and great Gif images.:twothumbs
Thanks for sharing.

Joe


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 10, 2008)

JetskiMark said:


> Yes. I have each frame set at one second now. I will make the next one at 1.5 seconds. I must have ADD though, one second seems a little slow to me.
> 
> Any comparison requests?



I would recommend gif rotations at least 2-3 sec on each frame. You need time to read the label, then pick out details, color, beam shape, etc...especially when more than two images.

*While I appreciate your time and effort, honestly, your gif's are stressful, almost making me feel like they are inducing a seizure, and had to get them out of my view immediately (seriously).*  Lips set the standard for these gif comparisons, and I believe he uses 2 to 3 sec.


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## Patriot (Jun 10, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> I would recommend gif rotations at least 2-3 sec on each frame. You need time to read the label, then pick out details, color, beam shape, etc...especially when more than two images.





That would be a big *+1 *from me also. Post #44 for example with...5 lights I think, is impossible to manage from a viewer's standpoint unless you spend about 5 minutes learning the sequence. Even at that, there is no time to pick out any detail. I think that .250 - .300 centoseconds is just about right.

A+ for your time and effort though Mark. Your gifs are nice and clear and without artifacts.


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## JetskiMark (Jun 10, 2008)

Due to popular demand, I changed each animation frame to a 2.5 second duration.

Make sure to refresh your browser in case the images are cached.

I opened a gif that Lips made and the frames were set to 2.5 seconds.

What can I say, I like it fast.


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## Flashanator (Jun 11, 2008)

thx 4 those Mtbkndad. 

My new desktop is the 1000w with the Caption on the side:

(Got Lumens B****)

:thumbsup:


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## Flashanator (Jun 11, 2008)

What do you think the diff would be between the GE 4556 single filament my GE 4557?

Is yours just the big beam, but even more brighter & more side flood then the GE 4557?


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## guiri (Jun 13, 2008)

How the hell did you get all those lights?

Sweet shootout


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## mtbkndad (Jun 15, 2008)

guiri said:


> How the hell did you get all those lights?
> 
> Sweet shootout



BVH managed to get a good number of them from different sources for the shootout.
Numerous people including myself brought the others.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BVH (Jun 15, 2008)

Member Lips supplied quite a few.


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## Nitro (Jun 15, 2008)

Great shootout, and collection of lights. :thumbsup:

That LK 1000 looks molten.  What's the maximum runtime before it liquifies? And how long do you have to wait before you can touch it without gloves?


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## BVH (Jun 27, 2008)

Getting lots of authoritative commentary on how I've been underdriving my EZnite, including during this shootout. I was using 3 ea of the Tenergy 3.0 Volt 900 mah rechargeables. I'm now using 4 of them. Probably would have changed the comparison shots agains Mac's Mini.


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## adamlau (Jun 27, 2008)

This only means that we will have to hold another shootout soon  . So I was looking at something to throw against the Locator the next time around and came across the Spectrolab CHIS. But at $108,000.00, we will have to wait for that throwdown to happen (they are supposed to have a floor model in display in Sylmar shortly)...


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## BVH (Jun 27, 2008)

Well.....if you have to bring that, then I've got no choice other than to bring my 60 incher. It only cost 19K including light, generator and trailer. More than 5 times cheaper than the Spectrolab. I mean, fair is fair! Then we can put a final end to the throw contest. Gonna have to find a 5+ mile range though.

Did i mention that I almost went to work for Spectrolab in Sylmar or was it Sun Valley right out of high school. What a strange coincidence.


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## windstrings (Jun 27, 2008)

Too bad you didn't... I bet you could get one for a steal thats a bring back or refurb or outdated.


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## BVH (Jun 28, 2008)

My take on the Spectrolab CHIS light is that the VSS-3a would match it and the VSS-1 would take it. However, for portability, the Spectrolab would win.


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## Ninjaz7 (Jul 9, 2008)

What an excellent job,heavy eye candy ....it's like brain food for flashaholics .Many thanks for the time spent,I feel almost Zen like...kudos.


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## woodrow (Jul 11, 2008)

Wow! Thanks for putting this together. First, its nice to see how just a little bit of money.... for a N30 will get you so much light. Secondly, its cool to see how much brighter lights can be than a 35w hid!


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## Kevenater (Aug 6, 2008)

I'm shocked at how dim the POB looks!!!! Haven't seen one in person and i've been thinking about ordering one after reading on here about them. the 15 million cp thor even looks brighter than it in the pics to me. I don't know how much justice the pics do but my brothers 10 million cp pob halogen even looks brighter in person than the pics of the pob hid. hope i'm wrong!!!!


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## BlueBeam22 (Aug 7, 2008)

I have the POB, 15mcp Thor, and the Professional's Favorite 17.5mcp.

The Pro's Favorite has a brighter hotspot and looks brighter than both the 15mcp Thor and POB. The Pro's Favorite also appears to have a more powerful beam than either of them, and it seems to out throw both of them.


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## Patriot (Aug 7, 2008)

Kevenater said:


> I'm shocked at how dim the POB looks!!!! Haven't seen one in person and i've been thinking about ordering one after reading on here about them. the 15 million cp thor even looks brighter than it in the pics to me. I don't know how much justice the pics do but my brothers 10 million cp pob halogen even looks brighter in person than the pics of the pob hid. hope i'm wrong!!!!




It's brighter that it looks in the picture Kev. The spotlights don't produce much spill in the foreground and it can make them look unimpressive. Also, the POB is mixed in with some the of most powerful and expensive HID light available. 35W is almost the starting group in the shootout since there were only 2 10W lights. If you want to spend more money for the the N30, if you don't have the extra to spend I really don't think you'll be dissatisfied with the POB. I gave my dad a POB for his B-day a fews weeks ago and he's still giggling about it.


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## Kevenater (Aug 7, 2008)

thanks guys! I'm trying to get 2 on the sams site. maybe i'll get em. They do have some flood to them also though dont they? I dont need alot of flood just enough to help light up some reflective tape on the foam noodles I use out on the lake at night.


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## Flashanator (Aug 7, 2008)

tip: How to make your mega illuminator beam look like its a VSS-1????

Shine it in low very thick fog @ night. the beam only throws about 40 meters, but theres so much scattering it looks awesome. 

You can't imagine want the Thor X10 looks like.


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## Patriot (Aug 7, 2008)

Kevenater said:


> thanks guys! I'm trying to get 2 on the sams site. maybe i'll get em. They do have some flood to them also though dont they? I dont need alot of flood just enough to help light up some reflective tape on the foam noodles I use out on the lake at night.




There is a large amount of spill light also. On reflective tape your noodles will be visible for over a 1000 yards with that light.


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## Kevenater (Aug 8, 2008)

That's great patriot!! I won one of the lights yesterday morning but still haven't gotten an email saying it has shipped. lost on the other one last night but i bid on another just now. Trying to get one for my brother, then im gonna get me a second one. Thanks again for the info!


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## brightnorm (Mar 13, 2009)

Thank you for this remarkable test series, one of the most impressive I have seen on CPF. I still enjoy my puny 3500 though it's like a firefly compared to many of these beauties.

My quest is still for a *Bright* flashlight-configured 40-50W 4200K HID preferably smaller than but no bigger than the 3500. 

Someday maybe?

Brightnorm


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