# Orbtronic 18650 batteries and charger



## bullinchinashop (Jul 21, 2011)

I just got this today
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004AWE2L2/?tag=cpf0b6-20

The batteries are button top and are supposedly made in the USA. They are protected and are rated at 2800 mAh.

The charger comes with a home and car charger and the batteries come with a storage case.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91xOygoErZL._AA1500_.jpg


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## mrlysle (Jul 21, 2011)

Man, those really look nice! And the charger looks really nice as well. I'll be anxious to see how they perform, and how well the charger does. Please let us know after you've used them a while.


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## HKJ (Jul 22, 2011)

Batteries looks like this:






I got this discharge curve from them:




In my 18650 roundup, but I bought them from DX.


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 22, 2011)

Nevermind


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 22, 2011)

The Orbtronic (SoShine) charger is advertised as a "rapid charger" but this thing is still taking forever.
I plugged in the charger at about 7pm last night and unplugged it at about 9pm. I plugged it in again at about 4:30am and it's now 6am and the lights are still red.


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## HKJ (Jul 22, 2011)

Many LiIon chargers are slow, i.e. it can take 5 to 9 hours to charge from empty batteries. You can see a test of some chargers on my website (But not the Soshine).


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 22, 2011)

HKJ said:


> Many LiIon chargers are slow, i.e. it can take 5 to 9 hours to charge from empty batteries. You can see a test of some chargers on my website (But not the Soshine).


 
Thanks for the info. This is my first experience with any kind of rechargeable batteries of any kind so I didn't know what to expect.


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 22, 2011)

About 7:20am one channel starting blinking green and the other channel started blinking green about 7 minutes later. The lights flashing green means the battery is between 80% - 90% charged

"Specification:

Input:: 12V DC 1200mA (min) 
Output: 4.2VDC 1000mA*1 1000mA *2

2 Individual LED indicate:
Light off = Stand by / 
Red on = Battery Charging / 
Flashing Green = 80-90% complete / 
Green on = Charge complete / 
Flashing Red = Battery error 



Light off = Stand by
Red on = Battery Charging
Flashing Green = 80-90% complete
Green on = Charge complete
Flashing Red = Battery error
 


Feature

- End-of-charge voltage detection assures the safe and full charge any time

- Short-circuit protection

- Over voltage cut-off protection ----- prevents damage to your battery due to over voltage

- Complete individual channels ------ convenience; prevent 2 batteries charge each other

- Charge Method: CC/CV -------------- Charge battery fully and quickly

- Reverse polarity protection --------- prevent damage to your battery and charger



Package content:

1x Quick li-ion 18650 charger
2x 18650 protected lithium-ion rechargeable batteries
1x 110V/220V AC adapter
1x 12V car (cigarette lighter) adapter"

At about 7:58am the light on second channel was solid green so we're looking at a total charge time of about 6 hours


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## Bat (Jul 22, 2011)

SOSHINE is NOT a USA brand and definitely not made in USA. You've been scammed.:wave::wave:


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 22, 2011)

Bat said:


> SOSHINE is NOT a USA brand and definitely not made in USA. You've been scammed.:wave::wave:



Oh _great_
Thanks for the heads-up. Are these Chinese cells?
The batteries & charger seem to be working fine so far (Crosses fingers)
I will be getting AW next - No one seems to have _anything_ negative to say about those batteries.


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## Bat (Jul 22, 2011)

bullinchinashop said:


> Oh _great_
> Thanks for the heads-up. Are these Chinese cells?
> The batteries & charger seem to be working fine so far (Crosses fingers)
> I will be getting AW next - No one seems to have _anything_ negative to say about those batteries.


 
Soshine's quality is like ultrafire, maybe a little better.

ofcoz anyone can open a shelf company overseas and claims they are from wherever they are.


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## Bat (Jul 22, 2011)

SANYO UR18650ZT 18650
2800 mAh typical, 2700 mAh min

http://battery.sanyo.com/product/lithum-ion/pdf/01/UR18650ZT.pdf


SANYO UR18650ZTA 18650 
3000 mAh typical, 2900 mAh min

http://battery.sanyo.com/product/lithum-ion/pdf/01/UR18650ZTA.pdf


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 22, 2011)

They're Chinese cells. I just looked more closely at on of them and it says on the wrapper "made in China".


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## Bat (Jul 22, 2011)

bullinchinashop said:


> They're Chinese cells. I just looked more closely at on of them and it says on the wrapper "made in China".


 
maybe the actual capacity is 1700mAh
all those reviews on Dealxxtrxmx are either fake or manipulated.....

or "2800mAh" is just the model number


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 22, 2011)

Bat said:


> maybe the actual capacity is 1700mAh
> all those reviews on Dealxxtrxmx are either fake or manipulated.....
> 
> or "2800mAh" is just the model number


 
I got these from orbtronic.com through Amazon
I've seen so many horror stories about Deal Extreme I never ordered from them.


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## hellokitty[hk] (Jul 22, 2011)

bullinchinashop said:


> I got these from orbtronic.com through Amazon
> I've seen so many horror stories about Deal Extreme I never ordered from them.


I believe they're the same cells anyway though.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 22, 2011)

Bat said:


> all those reviews on Dealxxtrxmx are either fake or manipulated.....


 
I doubt that, I've seen plenty of negative reviews and none of my reviews have been manipulated.



bullinchinashop said:


> I've seen so many horror stories about Deal Extreme I never ordered from them.


 
I've placed 20 orders through DX, not one has failed to arrive and I have always received the products that I ordered. I did once receive a lighter that had a faulty piezo electric unit (no click or spark), when I contacted DX they sent out a replacement at no cost and I didn't even have to send back the faulty product.

Check the reviews on what is a good product for the price:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/trustf...h-rechargeable-lithium-batteries-2-pack-20392
Compare to reviews on rubbish products:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ultrafire-18650-3-7v-3000mah-lithium-batteries-2-pack-26249
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ultraf...lithium-batteries-yellow-2-battery-pack-51988
Notice the negative reviews, enough to discourage me from buying the products.
I have bought what DX claim to be genuine brand name products and they certainly seem to be genuine. I have bought really cheap stuff that is as cheaply made as you would expect. I've pretty much got what I expected from almost everything I have bought from them - the reviews and product forums help a lot with that.


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## Bat (Jul 22, 2011)

KiwiMark said:


> I doubt that, I've seen plenty of negative reviews and none of my reviews have been manipulated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
1. they delete negative reviews / won't publish it at all, & users have incentive to publish glowing positive reviews
2. they send you FAKE refund emails & i need to contact PayPal directly to get my money back.


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## Bat (Jul 22, 2011)

FAKE refund i received quite recently:





Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Real refund directly from Paypal after winning Paypal claim (Reason: FAKE refund email):





Uploaded with ImageShack.us


they are not even a REAL Hong Kong company to begin with. Just bunch of guys from China (Shenzhen, maybe?) who happen to post their goods via Hongkong Post through those posting agents in China


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## Bat (Jul 22, 2011)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

real Hong Kong numbers begin with the country code "852". "86" is China.

the Hong Kong address they claim to be from actually belongs to this logistics company if u dig deep enough
http://www.hotfrog.hk/Companies/Esse-Express-Worldwide

深政源國際速遞有限公司
九龍紅磡民樂街21號富高工業中心B座2樓25-26室


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## KiwiMark (Jul 22, 2011)

Bat said:


> 1. they delete negative reviews / won't publish it at all, & users have incentive to publish glowing positive reviews
> 2. they send you FAKE refund emails & i need to contact PayPal directly to get my money back.


 
Well, I've seen negative reviews from over a year ago, they certainly can't be deleting ALL negative reviews. I've also read plenty of posts in the product forums that suggest a product is junk and should be avoided - those don't seem to get deleted either.

I can't comment on the refund issue, I've never tried to get a refund from them.

I have no idea of whether they are truly HK based, but it certainly is possible that they have an office in China and that their phone support all comes from the China office/call center.

All I really know for sure is that I have had zero problems over 20 orders and based on my own personal experience I am happy to keep dealing with DX.


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## Bat (Jul 22, 2011)

KiwiMark said:


> Well, I've seen negative reviews from over a year ago, they certainly can't be deleting ALL negative reviews. I've also read plenty of posts in the product forums that suggest a product is junk and should be avoided - those don't seem to get deleted either.
> 
> I can't comment on the refund issue, I've never tried to get a refund from them.
> 
> ...


 
they pretend to be HK based, but i'm certain they are not.

also:
http://www.google.com/search?client...eme+negative+review+deleted&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
http://www.google.com/search?q=deal...DsXjmAXz772rDA&start=10&sa=N&biw=1247&bih=886


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## shadowjk (Jul 23, 2011)

You can get stuff sent through HK Post, SIngapore Post, Swiss Post, China Post and probably a few others, from shanghai and hongkong atleast.


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## space-cowboy (Jul 24, 2011)

Orbtronic is US based company. Post mentioning word scam is quite disturbing.
 


ALL 18650 batteries are made in Asia , and there is no single word saying that these particular batteries are assembled in USA.
Soshine batteries/charger will soon be under Orbtronic name. Quality control is under supervision of Orbtronic.
No doubt that these are excellent batteries - read/see tests made by some quite established CPF members. Cells are made by Sanyo, and IC in protection circuit is the same as in AW 18650 batteries.
There is not any better 18650 battery charger that can be found at this price range- period.
Another disinformation is that DX is deleting negative feedbacks about products that they sell. That is NOT true. The only bad thing about DX is that your order can take up to two months to arrive. That is true.
AW batteries are OK , but overpriced (not to mention design flaw of not having button-top welded to positive side)


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 24, 2011)

space-cowboy said:


> Orbtronic is US based company. Post mentioning word scam is quite disturbing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## 45/70 (Jul 24, 2011)

Welcome to CPF, space-cowboy!:thumbsup:



space-cowboy said:


> Orbtronic is US based company. Post mentioning word scam is quite disturbing.



I agree to some extent, but I'm not sure which is worse, potentially misleading advertising, or a "U.S. based company" that appears to be nothing more than yet another "storefront" based in the U.S. which specializes in the distribution of imported Chinese goods. There's really nothing wrong with that, providing it is made clear to the customer where these products actually originate from. It may actually be a good thing, as far as customer service etc.

Looking over Orbtronic's various offerings, I really didn't see anything that did not appear to be imported from China. Many of their products are similar to DX's and other Asian vendors, such as many UltraFire products.



> Soshine batteries/charger will soon be under Orbtronic name. Quality control is under supervision of Orbtronic.


This may be a good thing. Tenergy for example, another U.S. based storefront for a Chinese company, has some fairly decent products, although they have some that fall quite short, as well.



> No doubt that these are excellent batteries - read/see tests made by some quite established CPF members. Cells are made by Sanyo, and IC in protection circuit is the same as in AW 18650 batteries.


I don't recall any stellar performance reports from anyone testing Soshine cells. I'd say "fair" would be a better description. Distributors such as the various xxxxxFire brands sometimes use Sanyo cells, as well. The question is, where do they obtain these cells from? Most are "second tier" cells bought up as surplus. That doesn't mean they are necessarily bad, but often are not top quality due to age, the specific reason they were rejected for battery pack production, and so on. The "best" cells, for the most part, go into battery packs and are not sold off as surplus.



> There is not any better 18650 battery charger that can be found at this price range- period.


I'll just have to disagree here. The fundamental quality of a Li-Ion charger, is that it properly charge cells. To my knowledge, none of the Soshine chargers do so. Also, for those that insist on buying a faulty charger, there are many other options that are cheaper. Considering this, in my opinion, all of Soshine's Li-Ion chargers are overpriced.



> AW batteries are OK , but overpriced (not to mention design flaw of not having button-top welded to positive side)The lack of a positive nipple is not a "design flaw".


As for the cost of cells, top tier cells cost more than second tier cells. This is usually reflected in the distributor's pricing of their cells.

Also, Li-Ion cells are not manufactured to be used individually by consumers. They are manufactured for the making of battery packs for use in consumer devices such as laptop computers, and are not intended to be used in devices such as flashlights/torches.

A positive nipple is an option that can be added by cell distributors often, along with an added protection circuit, as well. Hopefully, these features can be done properly, although it would appear that Soshine has had a bit of trouble with this process.

I will say that I do not own any Li-Ion powered lights that require cells with a positive nipple. A few times I have had to remove the nipple so the cell(s) will fit into a light, due to the extra length added by this option. I view the need for a positive nipple on Li-Ion cells as a design flaw in the light, not the cell.

Dave


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 24, 2011)

45/70 said:


> Welcome to CPF, space-cowboy!:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bat (Jul 24, 2011)

Misleading advertising at the very minimum, already a falsified advertising in some countries.

Someone from Orbtronic here should take note about it.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 24, 2011)

45/70 said:


> A positive nipple is an option that can be added by cell distributors often


 
I read space-cowboy's post and thought 'design flaw' no that isn't accurate - a lack of a positive nipple on the 2600mAh cells is a 'design limitation', there is nothing 'flawed' about it.
Because of this limitation I'm using my AW 2200mAh cells in my Jetbeam Jet-IIIM and using my AW 2600mAh cells in my Olight M20, Zebralight H60w and a couple of other lights that work fine with a cell that doesn't have a positive nipple. It seems that one out of my 5 18650 lights needs the positive nipple and the other 4 don't.


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## hazna (Jul 25, 2011)

I've got a a few of the soshine 2800mah cells. In my test they give around 2400mah. I got these batteries as 'new' but I have a feeling that the battery inside may be a little old. After charging up, they drop to 4.12-4.13V when rested for a little while. That is a significant drop from 4.19-4.20V


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## HKJ (Jul 25, 2011)

hazna said:


> I've got a a few of the soshine 2800mah cells. In my test they give around 2400mah. I got these batteries as 'new' but I have a feeling that the battery inside may be a little old. After charging up, they drop to 4.12-4.13V when rested for a little while. That is a significant drop from 4.19-4.20V


 
That matches with my capacity curves in post #3.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 25, 2011)

I'm in the market for some more 18650 cells, but after carefully considering these Soshine cells I've taken them off my list. The performance doesn't seem to be where I want it for the price of these cells - I can get better cells for less money. I'm not overly happy about the dishonesty - from the graphs these are clearly NOT 2800mAh cells, even at 0.3A they are only 2400mAh cells. 

It seems to me that I get better value for money from AW - his cells are pretty much around the capacity that he claims and I feel that they are higher quality. The Soshine cells are available from Orbtronic for $24/pr, the AW 2200mAh cells are the same price ($12ea) and have close to the actual capacity and I suspect better quality. For more capacity the AW 2600mAh cells aren't all that much dearer ($14.75ea). 

When I look at the Trustfire cells in the graphs I see some close performance - but they cost less than half as much. I think that if I'm buying on price I'll get some Trustfire cells and if I'm buying on quality & performance then I'll go with AW or Redilast.

I have no real opinion on the charger in the OP, except that I prefer my iCharger & Turnigy hobby chargers.


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## 45/70 (Jul 25, 2011)

bullinchinashop said:


> What should I be looking for? You are basically saying that the SoShine charger sucks but you aren't giving any details. Does it not shut off when the cells are charged? does it undercharge?Overcharge?



Hi bull. I didn't exactly say the Soshine charger "sucked", only that it charges Li-Ion cells improperly.

The best way to determine if a Li-Ion charger is charging cells the way Li-Ion cell manufacturers recommend, is to know yourself how Li-Ion cells should be charged. A good place to learn the basics of charging Li-Ion cells is Battery University. Without going into great detail, this site explains the basics of charging, discharging, and using not only Li-Ion cells, but many of the other commonly used rechargeable cell chemistries.

If you look around the Forum you will find several references to the Soshine chargers, and in some cases, why they are not considered proper chargers. For starters you might take a look at mdocod's "Consumer Li-Ion "cradle" charger roundup" thread. At least one of the Soshine chargers is covered there, and they all seem to pretty much use the same charging method.

Also, if you read through the entire thread, there is much discussion about what is wrong with almost all of the "consumer type" chargers available today. My, as well as other's opinions on this, are well documented on this Forum in many other threads. I don't think I need to, or should, repeat it here in this thread, as we are going way off topic at this point.

Dave


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## BoarHunter (Jul 25, 2011)

bullinchinashop said:


> They're Chinese cells. I just looked more closely at on of them and it says on the wrapper "made in China".



Don't listen to all these negative talks, the wrappers are made in China but the cells are made in the US then wrapped in China then sent back !


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## mellowman (Jul 25, 2011)

just by the same stuff from DX for less. 

Orbtronic is just another middleman doubling prices. Ok I guess if you want something quicker than DX or similar site. 

Oh and the post about DX sending fake refund notices is true. You need to open a complaint with paypal after requesting refund from DX to get refund promptly.

As for the Soshine batteries, they are ok for the price (got them for ~$12/pair). They are longer than the usual XXXXfire brands so work better in my L2P lights.


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 25, 2011)

45/70 said:


> Hi bull. I didn't exactly say the Soshine charger "sucked", only that it charges Li-Ion cells improperly.
> 
> The best way to determine if a Li-Ion charger is charging cells the way Li-Ion cell manufacturers recommend, is to know yourself how Li-Ion cells should be charged. A good place to learn the basics of charging Li-Ion cells is Battery University. Without going into great detail, this site explains the basics of charging, discharging, and using not only Li-Ion cells, but many of the other commonly used rechargeable cell chemistries.
> 
> ...



After reading some of the post in your link I stand by my statement. If a charger doesn't charge cells properly then that charger sucks. 18650's cost too much money t have them ruined or damaged in any way by a charger. If I continue using 18650's I will definitely begetting the pila charger.


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## Bat (Jul 25, 2011)

mellowman said:


> just by the same stuff from DX for less.
> 
> Orbtronic is just another middleman doubling prices. Ok I guess if you want something quicker than DX or similar site.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you for speaking out the truth. I was so furious to receive that fake refund and immediately escalate it to paypal claim & won. :scowl:


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## space-cowboy (Jul 26, 2011)

I am glad that this thread is getting some attention. Trying to prove that certain product is very bad without actually owning that very same product is quite misleading. 
In a short run it may work, but in a long run customer will decide, and that part will be quite easy.
I do understand that many of posters are lobbing (some of them are working) for various battery suppliers/sellers.
Posting a link that is 2 or 3 years old, or link to charger (wrong + more than 2 years old product review) that has nothing to do with chargers sold by Orbtronic is extremely deceptive. 
Again, not having ANY experience with the charger/batteries that are in the title of this thread, and talking bad about them is nonsense.

AW batteries are good, but at whooping 35 USD for pair (2900mAh) that delivers about 2600mAh (that graph some people wouldn’t like average customer to see).

For customers who own Soshine batteries from DX (DealExtreme) unlike some posters above I cannot comment because I do not have them.


Also it will be very useful to hear where one of the posters did buy pair of 2800mAh Soshine batteries for 12 USD (it is impossible)?


And if it is true - I would buy bunch of them (but not from DX).


Honest customers will decide based on many factors including PRICE / PERFORMANCE ratio.


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## HKJ (Jul 26, 2011)

space-cowboy said:


> Posting a link that is 2 or 3 years old, or link to charger (wrong + more than 2 years old product review) that has nothing to do with chargers sold by Orbtronic is extremely deceptive.



The links shows that Soshine did not follow the rules at that time, maybe they are better now. 
One way to "prove" how a charger works, is to send one to a technical reviewer.


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## space-cowboy (Jul 26, 2011)

HKJ said:


> The links shows that Soshine did not follow the rules at that time, maybe they are better now.
> One way to "prove" how a charger works, is to send one to a technical reviewer.



You've missed the point. In this thread we are talking about 2 channel charger with a clear picture in the first post.
Charger in that more than 2 years old review has nothing to do with this product/thread (completely different model). 
Just for your info charger that is reviewed 2 years ago is el. redesigned, and now there is a new Ver. 2 Four channel charger.

Problem is more of ethical nature. IMO nobody can talk bad of this product without having ANY experience with that same product.

That is all I am trying to say.


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## jasonck08 (Jul 26, 2011)

space-cowboy said:


> I am glad that this thread is getting some attention. Trying to prove that certain product is very bad without actually owning that very same product is quite misleading.


 
Trying to prove that a certain product is good, is also bad without posting any data / test results.



space-cowboy said:


> You've missed the point. In this thread we are talking about 2 channel charger with a clear picture in the first post.
> Charger in that more than 2 years old review has nothing to do with this product/thread (completely different model).
> Just for your info charger that is reviewed 2 years ago is el. redesigned, and now there is a new Ver. 2 Four channel charger.
> 
> ...



Does the charger follow the CC/CV charge method? 98% of chargers out there do not... I think most people talk bad about unknown chargers, because lets be honest, 98% of them on the market are bad.




HKJ said:


> The links shows that Soshine did not follow the rules at that time, maybe they are better now.
> One way to "prove" how a charger works, is to send one to a technical reviewer.


 
Agreed.


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## HKJ (Jul 26, 2011)

space-cowboy said:


> Problem is more of ethical nature. IMO nobody can talk bad of this product without having ANY experience with that same product.



That is only partial correct. If the company in the past has been known for bad products, there is a significant risk that a new products might also be a bad product (But it could also be a good product).
The way to "prove" one or the other is usual independent test.


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## 45/70 (Jul 26, 2011)

space-cowboy said:


> I am glad that this thread is getting some attention.



This does seem to be the general purpose of your posts here on CPF.



> I do understand that many of posters are lobbing (_*some of them are working*_) for various battery suppliers/sellers.


This seems a bit presumptuous, to me. Having been here a bit longer than yourself, I can say with reasonable certainty, that no poster in this thread is affiliated with, or working for any of the vendors or manufacturers mentioned in this thread, save maybe one, and that would be yourself. While you may, or may not be affiliated with Orbtronic, I have no idea, it is a bit odd that you appear out of nowhere sounding like a sales representative, along with the associated "pie in the sky" hype that goes along with such positions. Also, I see nothing wrong with members "lobbying" for superior products. This may disappoint some manufacturers and vendors, but this is a flashlight forum.



> Posting a link that is 2 or 3 years old, or link to charger (wrong + more than 2 years old product review) that has nothing to do with chargers sold by Orbtronic is extremely deceptive.


There are other threads pertaining to Soshine chargers as well as Li-Ion cells, and the general consensus is, as I said before, these products are "fair", if not a bit overpriced. Some of the other product associations, such as the Orbtronics-UltraFire alliance, I find a bit more alarming.



> Again, not having ANY experience with the charger/batteries that are in the title of this thread, and talking bad about them is nonsense.


This is true to some extent, however many here on the forum are familiar with similar products from these distributors and vendors and have formed a general opinion about their product lines. And no, I do not think the general membership considers these opinions to be "nonsense", sorry.



> AW batteries are good, but at whooping 35 USD for pair (2900mAh) that delivers about 2600mAh (that graph some people wouldn’t like average customer to see).


I think your numbers may be bit off here, but you previously responded with......



> Honest customers will decide based on many factors including PRICE / PERFORMANCE ratio.


.....I'll go along with that. I'm not sure what you are trying to insinuate by stating "_*Honest customers*_", however. Also, in many cases AW's cells have been proven to outlast many competitors cells. This, in many cases, offsets the initial cost so that his cells end up actually being cheaper, in the long run.



> Charger in that more than 2 years old review has nothing to do with this product/thread (completely different model).


Yes, but "Soshine" is clearly printed on the charger. Again, from member's past experiences with the Soshine line, many are not going to expect any miracles. I, as much as anyone else, would like to see more than one, or two chargers available out of the dozens presently being marketed, that actually are capable of properly charging Li-Ion cells.



> Problem is more of ethical nature. IMO nobody can talk bad of this product without having ANY experience with that same product.


You make a good point here, but once more, the past history of these products speaks for itself. And as far as ethics go, why did Soshine supply improper chargers for so many years? Mind you, so did most of the other distributors (almost all still do).

I think if they actually have come up with a proper charger line, that's great. And, as HKJ pointed out,



HKJ said:


> One way to "prove" how a charger works, is to send one to a technical reviewer.


 
If several samples of these chargers were sent to reviewers with the necessary equipment to verify, if indeed, these chargers actually follow the recommended charging algorithm, then and only then, will we have a definitive answer.

Dave


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## space-cowboy (Jul 26, 2011)

Absolutely agree.


Couldn't agree more.


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## samgab (Jul 26, 2011)

I vote that space-cowboy, appearing to be some kind of staff representative of "Orbtronic" (new member, leapt immediately to the defense of Orbtronic), send a sample of this charger to HKJ for analysis and review (if and when he has time to do so). If it is a good charger, and follows the correct CC/CV method, then the results will be available here for all to see. And if it doesn't, well same story. Transparency is good.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 26, 2011)

space-cowboy said:


> AW batteries are good, but at whooping 35 USD for pair (2900mAh) that delivers about 2600mAh (that graph some people wouldn’t like average customer to see).


 
I have seen graphs from the AW 2900mAh cells which show they are capable of putting out 2850mAh of capacity. The best the Soshine 2800mAh cells seem to put out is 2450mAh (at 0.2A). Someone that joined CPF to post a defence of Soshine claiming that AW cells don't meet their claimed capacity? That seems a bit rich to me!

http://lygte-info.dk/info/Batteries18650-2011 UK.html
The Redilast cells do even better than the AW cells - I'm not too sure why since they both use the Panasonic 2900mAh cells.


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## Lightfoot98 (Jul 26, 2011)

KiwiMark said:


> ........I'm not too sure why since they both use the Panasonic 2900mAh cells.




Panasonic rates their batches upon mfg.

Ones that fall out of spec for their contract work are sold off to 3rd party venders who relable them.

Some batches are better than others.

Luck of the draw when co's bid for the "rejects"


----------



## bullinchinashop (Jul 26, 2011)

space-cowboy said:


> I am glad that this thread is getting some attention. Trying to prove that certain product is very bad without actually owning that very same product is quite misleading.
> In a short run it may work, but in a long run customer will decide, and that part will be quite easy.
> I do understand that many of posters are lobbing (some of them are working) for various battery suppliers/sellers.
> Posting a link that is 2 or 3 years old, or link to charger (wrong + more than 2 years old product review) that has nothing to do with chargers sold by Orbtronic is extremely deceptive.
> ...




http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004AWE2L2/?tag=cpf0b6-20
I paid $40 (plus $7 for shipping) for the charger and two batteries. I purchased from Orbtronic with Amazon acting as the go-between.
http://www.orbtronic.com/batteries-...-2800mah-protected-lithium-ion-batteries.html
Amazon is showing the combo as unavailable right now but it's still available from orbtronic for $38
http://www.orbtronic.com/batteries-...-2800mah-protected-lithium-ion-batteries.html
Two batteries only $22
http://www.orbtronic.com/batteries-...on-battery-2800mah-soshine-two-batteries.html


----------



## bullinchinashop (Jul 26, 2011)

HKJ said:


> That is only partial correct. If the company in the past has been known for bad products, there is a significant risk that a new products might also be a bad product (But it could also be a good product).
> The way to "prove" one or the other is usual independent test.


 Years ago _I had a Ford Contour. The car had electrical gremlins like crazy. I had to change the fuse for the head lights twice because it kept blowing_. The head lights blew once. The fog lights blew three times. The fuse for the engine blew at least three times and to top it all off the driver's side air bag fell out of the steering wheel. Does that mean that all Ford are crap now?
Remember that Firestone tires that kept kept exploding? Does that mean that all Firestone tires are garbage now? Some companies _do_ change...
Sometimes execrable products are the result of idiots being in charge of a company or department. Get rid of the head idiot and things improve.


----------



## 45/70 (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah bull, I had a friend with a car like that. I can't even remember how many things went awry with that car. It was an '87 Yugo.

Dave


----------



## space-cowboy (Jul 27, 2011)

Bullinchinashop, good manufacturer learns from mistakes (and admits that something went wrong). Your Ford story is excellent example.

45/70 Your friend wanted a car for 4000 USD that runs like a corvette :shakehead

Performance that he gets out of that car is exactly what he paid for. 
Lesson learned-Yugo or Geo/metro couldn't adapt and they are out of this market. 
Simple as that.

Good examples about manufacturers who are able to change, and manuf. not able to adjust.

Same with any other product.


----------



## samgab (Jul 27, 2011)

Yeah yeah... So are you going to send HKJ a sample to test and review or not?


----------



## bullinchinashop (Jul 27, 2011)

samgab said:


> Yeah yeah... So are you going to send HKJ a sample to test and review or not?


 
I was trying to wait until I had ordered the Pila. If I send him this one all I'll have left is the even crappier one that came wit the batteries


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## samgab (Jul 27, 2011)

bullinchinashop said:


> I was trying to wait until I had ordered the Pila. If I send him this one all I'll have left is the even crappier one that came wit the batteries


 
Oh, no I didn't mean you, I meant space-cowboy, because he's coming across strongly like he is from the company "Orbtronic". And hasn't denied it...
If the charger is that good, I'd like to see the company stand behind it by being willing to transparently send a production unit to a third party for in depth evaluation, with no rules about making the results publicly viewable -- whatever they may be.

Edit: on the Orbtronic website, it says about this charger: "Highest quiality you can find in USA today." (sic) Doesn't that tell you something?


----------



## space-cowboy (Jul 27, 2011)

samgab said:


> Oh, no I didn't mean you, I meant space-cowboy, because he's coming across strongly like he is from the company "Orbtronic". And hasn't denied it...
> If the charger is that good, I'd like to see the company stand behind it by being willing to transparently send a production unit to a third party for in depth evaluation, with no rules about making the results publicly viewable -- whatever they may be.


 

This is the part of the forum where no company/individual suppose to advertise- correct me if I am wrong?

About testing/ review:


That wouldn't be a problem at all (two different models if needed).

As soon as I see Pila charger honest test results from the same reviewer open for public.

12 months warranty is telling you something about standing behind quality of this product - I hope so.


----------



## HKJ (Jul 27, 2011)

space-cowboy said:


> About testing/ review:
> 
> That wouldn't be a problem at all (two different models if needed).
> 
> As soon as I see Pila charger honest test results from the same reviewer open for public.



Somebody mentioned my name in connection with reviewing. As can be seen on my website I have done technical reviews of some chargers, but not the Pila. The reason for that is nobody has sent me one and I believe that it is too expensive to buy one just for reviewing (Personally I would like to see how it works and if it really is as good as “rumors” say).
Anyway it is not the Pila charger that is new and “unproven”, it is accepted as a good charger and it looks like it sells well.


----------



## samgab (Jul 27, 2011)

space-cowboy said:


> This is the part of the forum where no company/individual suppose to advertise- correct me if I am wrong?
> 
> About testing/ review:
> 
> ...


 
Just to clarify; I have no problem with Orbtronic products, having had no experience with them (yet).
I haven't spoken negatively about the products, but I also can't speak positively about them either. 
I personally have no problem with a company person coming on here to back up and support his product.
Examples that come to mind are George from Zebralight and William from Maha and also David and others from 4Sevens.
They have been very up front about who they are and whom they represent. That doesn't mean advertising.
I think it's good that the products have a 12 Month warranty. I agree that shows that the company is prepared to stand behind the products, as long as the warranty is honoured.

The quality and charging method of the Pila is not in question here.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?201323-Pila-IBC-Charger-Compendium
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-14500-16340&p=3408029&viewfull=1#post3408029
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Ion-Charger.&p=3304445&viewfull=1#post3304445
The charge curve charts in those second two posts are what I'm trying to link to.

But I am a consumer, and possibly a future buyer:
I just feel that if I were to buy another Li-ion charger or more 18650 cells, I would be influenced positively towards buying them if I saw that people who are not linked to the company and who really know what they are talking about had tested them, using scientific methods, such as showing discharge curves with mAh in the case of cells, or charge curves showing mA and Volts over time in the case of chargers.
For instance, I bought the 4Sevens Li-ion charger, because I have seen tests in which it was proven to use the CC/CV method. Is it perfect? 
No. But, it uses the right charging method, and is affordable, and I trust the company.
Also, when I have a good experience with a product and a company, I speak about it to others, and recommend it to others. And Vice versa.

It was probably a bit out of line for me to put forward a suggestion of anyone in particular to do the testing, that would be between them and the person who sends them the item to be tested.


----------



## 45/70 (Jul 27, 2011)

samgab said:


> It was probably a bit out of line for me to put forward a suggestion of anyone in particular to do the testing, that would be between them and the person who sends them the item to be tested.



I'm not going to volunteer anybody's services either, but there are several other members here that have already tested/reviewed the Pila IBC charger. This is a pretty well documented Li-Ion charger that has been around for quite a while. I certainly would not have any objection if HKJ did a review, he has some of the most detailed data rich reviews here on the Forum. At the same time, I don't think it would hurt a bit to have more than one reviewer either, as in the case of the Pila.



space-cowboy said:


> 45/70 Your friend wanted a car for 4000 USD that runs like a corvette :shakehead
> 
> Performance that he gets out of that car is exactly what he paid for.



No, not actually. He bought it new and simply wanted a car to go to work and run errands etc. And just because his had many problems, doesn't mean other Yugos did. Of course, most of them did, and that was my point.

And by the way, I was the one with the Corvette, a '73 coupe, from 1986-2004.

Dave


----------



## bullinchinashop (Jul 27, 2011)

samgab said:


> Just to clarify; I have no problem with Orbtronic products, having had no experience with them (yet).
> I haven't spoken negatively about the products, but I also can't speak positively about them either.
> I personally have no problem with a company person coming on here to back up and support his product.
> Examples that come to mind are George from Zebralight and William from Maha and also David and others from 4Sevens.
> ...



Don't forget Wayne from Elektrolumens.


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## RCantor (Jul 27, 2011)

Space Cowboy, what these guys are telling you is that if the unit gets a good review for its charging methods you're gonna sell a whole lot of them. I say go for it! The positive reviews of 4 7's charger probably increased sales volume 10x what it would have sold otherwise. If you made a charger that could hold 32650s - 16340s and got good reviews for your charging methods you'd be the only one in the market. Make it 4 independant channels and you could retire.


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## snakyjake (Jul 27, 2011)

If it could charge both RCR123 & 18650, and receive a good review...I'd buy. The Pila is too expensive.


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## samgab (Jul 27, 2011)

snakyjake said:


> If it could charge both RCR123 & 18650, and receive a good review...I'd buy. The Pila is too expensive.


 
You just described the 4Sevens single bay charger V2!  
Can do all the common sizes including the 2 you mentioned: check.
Uses CC/CV method: check.
Cheaper than Pila: check.
Received good reviews: for Version 2... check.
Edit, but of course... Only one bay.


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## 45/70 (Jul 27, 2011)

snakyjake said:


> If it could charge both RCR123 & 18650, and receive a good review...I'd buy. The Pila is too expensive.



A bit OT, I kinda know where you're coming from snaky, but I've asked this before. Why do people spend $20-$50 for a decent charger to charge their NiMh cells, that cost $2-$3 a piece, and then expect to pay only $5-$10 for a charger to charge their Li-Ion cells, that cost them $5-$20 each? I can't figure out the logic in that reasoning.:shrug:

Dave


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## jasonck08 (Jul 27, 2011)

45/70 said:


> A bit OT, I kinda know where you're coming from snaky, but I've asked this before. Why do people spend $20-$50 for a decent charger to charge their NiMh cells, that cost $2-$3 a piece, and then expect to pay only $5-$10 for a charger to charge their Li-Ion cells, that cost them $5-$20 each? I can't figure out the logic in that reasoning.:shrug:
> 
> Dave



I recommend that people buy a $40 hobby charger that can charge almost anything.


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## rmteo (Jul 27, 2011)

snakyjake said:


> ...The Pila is too expensive.


Totally agree with jason. You can get a hobby charger (that probably does 10x as much) for less than half the price of the Pila.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 28, 2011)

rmteo said:


> Totally agree with jason. You can get a hobby charger (that probably does 10x as much) for less than half the price of the Pila.


 
I know a lot of people that I just wouldn't recommend a hobby charger to, they would just get confused. Because of their lack of understanding of hobby chargers I also won't recommend Li-ion batteries to them either. I generally put them on to Eneloops.

For myself - I have just ordered a new charger for $127 + shipping. It is another iCharger - a 208B to go with my current 106B+. I don't know what I'll do with my Turnigy 8150, which is still a good charger that works well (and is the older model that came with a thermal probe & USB port) but I just prefer the way my iCharger works with its better features and better UI. I like to use 2 hobby chargers because I have a lot of Li-ion cells to charge at times and 2 chargers can get the job done in half the time. My new 208B will take over the job of charging my 8 x 18650 IMR cells for my 212W photon cannon, after ~10 minutes of run time it is ready for another recharge.

At a cheaper price even the Turnigy 6 (I used to have one of those too) beats a cradle charger like the Pila for features & versatility. For me a Hobby charger is essential - I need to be able to charge my 10440 cells and my 32650 cells and a bunch in between. I also need to be able to charge my LiFePO4 cells as well as my LiCo & LiMn cells. The Pila just doesn't cut the mustard for my needs.


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## samgab (Jul 28, 2011)

KiwiMark said:


> I know a lot of people that I just wouldn't recommend a hobby charger to, they would just get confused. Because of their lack of understanding of hobby chargers I also won't recommend Li-ion batteries to them either. I generally put them on to Eneloops.
> 
> For myself - I have just ordered a new charger for $127 + shipping. It is another iCharger - a 208B to go with my current 106B+. I don't know what I'll do with my Turnigy 8150, which is still a good charger that works well (and is the older model that came with a thermal probe & USB port) but I just prefer the way my iCharger works with its better features and better UI. I like to use 2 hobby chargers because I have a lot of Li-ion cells to charge at times and 2 chargers can get the job done in half the time. My new 208B will take over the job of charging my 8 x 18650 IMR cells for my 212W photon cannon, after ~10 minutes of run time it is ready for another recharge.
> 
> At a cheaper price even the Turnigy 6 (I used to have one of those too) beats a cradle charger like the Pila for features & versatility. For me a Hobby charger is essential - I need to be able to charge my 10440 cells and my 32650 cells and a bunch in between. I also need to be able to charge my LiFePO4 cells as well as my LiCo & LiMn cells. The Pila just doesn't cut the mustard for my needs.


 
Maybe we can talk about the future of that Turnigy 8150 
PM me if you want.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 28, 2011)

samgab said:


> Maybe we can talk about the future of that Turnigy 8150
> PM me if you want.


 
My new iCharger should arrive next week, I'll flick you a message and we can sort something out.


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 28, 2011)

space-cowboy said:


> Bullinchinashop, good manufacturer learns from mistakes (and admits that something went wrong). Your Ford story is excellent example.
> 
> 45/70 Your friend wanted a car for 4000 USD that runs like a corvette :shakehead
> 
> ...


 
Exactly the point I was trying to make. Just because their chargers were bad a few years ago that doesn't mean that they haven't improved since then.


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## DasFriek (Jul 29, 2011)

Im actually surprised at the fair shake these cells are getting considering what we all know they are. I learned my first lesson fast as my first Li-Ion cell purchase was 4 Trustfire Flame 2400mAh unprotected cells off Ebay and after removing the labels each one turned out to be recycled and salvaged cells still showing old solder under the caps and not a single one matched other cells in the batch as each cell was marked differently.

I have since bought a set of protected TF Flame cells from DX that were very well made cells. But over all most Chinese made cells aren't worth half what they cost.
Not only do i mean they don't reach the rated capacity, But they die early deaths and wont take a charge alot faster than a well made cell. Also i should mention the TF Flame 14500 with a faulty protection circuit i had to remove just to salvage the cell.

There are also very few chargers that use the correct algorithm's especially under $20, But they will charge a cell but i wouldn't expect that cell to last long while being charged on these types of chargers. I have a Trustfire TR-001 which works well in charging a cell, But its what i don't see while its charging that is bad and detrimental to the cells overall lifespan. 

DX is a mixed bag imo, Ive had one good order from them despite it taking 8 days to ship. The next two i placed together and waited 9 days to ship and said forget it and canceled them and i had two refunds on paypal within 15 minutes with no issues what so ever. But i just placed another order from them but its not important items so i can wait on them and i dont care if it takes 2 weeks to ship.

Yes i could get by with Ultrafire cells and a TR-001 charger bought from DX, But it would take a long time to get it shipped and in my hands and the cells would be so over rated that i could buy high end cells at 2400mAH at the same price and know they wont die at any time. And besides worrying about the cells dieing to lack of quality craftsmanship id be wondering how long the charger will start taking its toll on the cells with its bad charging algorithms.

Id much rather spend a few dollars more and buy a decent charger which are out there that are lower priced than Pila chargers. Ive also bought Panasonic 2400 unprotected cells 10 for $23 that are true work horses. Japanese made HiMax 2600mAh cells can be had 6 for $37 shipped that are protected, And even Panasonic 2900mAh unprotected cells with true ratings 2 for $20 shipped and made in Japan also.

So to summarize buy what you want as long as its safe. But you get what you pay for and most times with Chinese cells you get ALOT less than what you pay for.
Buy quality chargers to make sure your cells live a long life, And keep your eyes out for good deals on cells that pop up fast and disappear even faster never to be seen again. Ive been threw this learning process myself and didn't like wasting my money when i had to recycle 4 cells that cost $10 each that were total fake junk.

Im very budget minded in my purchases, But that doesn't mean i wont pay more for a quality product as in the long run you do save money. You just need to be picky and keep an eye out for deals and do your homework. I don't look down on people who buy Shoshine or Ultrafire products, But i do wonder why they don't buy a higher quality product that puts out the same capacity that is stated correctly and not over rated with questionable quality when they cost the same amount.


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## rmteo (Jul 29, 2011)

I have 16x Grey Trustfire 2400 unprotected cells (for me protected cells are more hassles than they are worth) from DX that cost $3.30 each. Sure they are not 2400mAH, but they average 1850-1900mAH and are always charged at the full 1C rate with no bad cells. However, you will not know that unless you have a charger that can test/analyze the cells and *correctly* charge/discharge/cycle them, unattended. IOW, what you need is a hobby charger with an LCD display (and preferably a USB port for data logging on a computer). For less than half the price of a PILA IBC (<$20), you can get one that does all this:

Microprocessor controlled with LCD
Automatic charging current limit
Capacity limit
Temperature threshold
Delta-peak sensitivity (NiMH/NiCd)
Individual cell balancing
Li-ion, LiPo and LiFe capable
Ni-Cd, NiMH and Lead-Acid capable
Large range of charge currents
Store function, allows safe storage current
Time limit function
Input voltage monitoring. (Protects car batteries at the field)
Data storage 

Input Voltage: 11~18v
Circuit power: Max Charge: 50W / Max Discharge: 5W
Charge Current Range: .1~6.0A
Ni-MH/NiCd cells: 1~15
Li-ion/Poly cells: 1~6
Pb battery voltage: 2~20v


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## KiwiMark (Jul 29, 2011)

rmteo said:


> I have 16x Grey Trustfire 2400 unprotected cells (for me protected cells are more hassles than they are worth) from DX that cost $3.30 each. Sure they are not 2400mAH, but they average 1850-1900mAH and are always charged at the full 1C rate with no bad cells.


 
I recently bought 4 unprotected cells and am considering 4 more, but I decided against the grey Trustfire 2400 cells - I'm suspicious of the claimed 2400 but actual <2000 because these are likely to be recycled or reject cells. I went with some blue Trustfire 2500 cells as the user reports suggest that they are quite good.



DasFriek said:


> Ive also bought Panasonic 2400 unprotected cells 10 for $23 that are true work horses. Japanese made HiMax 2600mAh cells can be had 6 for $37 shipped that are protected, And even Panasonic 2900mAh unprotected cells with true ratings 2 for $20 shipped and made in Japan also.


 
Oooh, suddenly I am very interested in new cells and would like to know more about where you get these good deal from.


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## borrower (Jul 31, 2011)

space-cowboy said:


> ...
> About testing/ review:
> 
> 
> ...


 
So, space-cowboy, are you saying you aren't going to make provisions for a charger to be tested, since nobody has volunteered their Pila?


----------



## Verndog (Nov 14, 2012)

I'm considering going with an 18650 Sunwayman C20C and how the batteries perform is key for me before I add any new cells. I'm having troubles figuring out what is being said about this battery. Why are they posting tests from a Soshine cell when the original post is about Panasonic industrial cells? Are these cells made by Orbotronics really not Panasonic cells?

Very interested in these batteries and if they are legit…please help.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0062ANS7O/?tag=cpf0b6-20


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## space-cowboy (Nov 14, 2012)

Verndog said:


> I'm considering going with an 18650 Sunwayman C20C and how the batteries perform is key for me before I add any new cells. I'm having troubles figuring out what is being said about this battery. Why are they posting tests from a Soshine cell when the original post is about Panasonic industrial cells? Are these cells made by Orbotronics really not Panasonic cells?
> 
> Very interested in these batteries and if they are legit…please help.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0062ANS7O/?tag=cpf0b6-20




Those Orbtronic 18650 cells are one of the best on the market right now.

Test, and review is easy to find here on CPF (test performed by well know member of this community HKJ)

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...est-Review-of-Orbtronic-18650-3100mAh-(Black)


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## Verndog (Nov 14, 2012)

space-cowboy said:


> Those Orbtronic 18650 cells are one of the best on the market right now.
> 
> Test, and review is easy to find here on CPF (test performed by well know member of this community HKJ)
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...est-Review-of-Orbtronic-18650-3100mAh-(Black)



Thank you very much for the fast response!. I know quite a bit about batteries from years of RC racing and have several high end chargers that I'll use (but new to 18650 config) Panasonic is generally a trusted name so I was quite confused about the side track this thread took on the Soshine cells and the datasheet to it. Confusing information here.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-and-charger&p=3699418&viewfull=1#post3699418


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## space-cowboy (Nov 14, 2012)

No problem,

If you look closely you will see that thread is more than 1 year old, and it was about Soshine, not Orbtronic brand batteries.

At that time Soshine were using Sanyo 2600Mah cells (still very reputable cell among flashlight users).

But that was long time ago.

Advice:

You can always search CPF forum for "Orbtronic 3100mAh" or something like that, and you will see posts about that particular product/brand.


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## Verndog (Nov 14, 2012)

For those interested, they have the same batteries used in the Orbtronics, the industrial 3100 Panasonic unprotected for WAY less here..$10.99 ea.



http://www.orbtronic.com/batteries-...rechargeable-18650-battery-cell-made-in-japan


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## Verndog (Nov 14, 2012)

space-cowboy said:


> No problem,
> If you look closely you will see that thread is more than 1 year old, and it was about Soshine, not Orbtronic brand batteries.



I read the very first post, and it says Orbtronics battery, clicked on the link and it takes me to their Panasonic protected cell...weird???



bullinchinashop said:


> I just got this today
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004AWE2L2/?tag=cpf0b6-20
> 
> The batteries are button top and are supposedly made in the USA. They are protected and are rated at 2800 mAh.
> ...


----------



## space-cowboy (Nov 14, 2012)

I would look at the pictures, and description of that particular product.

Last year Orbtronic were selling other brands (like Soshine batteries) until quality, and power was "discovered".

Now Orbtronic is selling its own brand with Panasonic 3100, and 3400mAh cells inside.


----------



## Verndog (Nov 14, 2012)

space-cowboy said:


> I would look at the pictures, and description of that particular product.
> 
> Last year Orbtronic were selling other brands (like Soshine batteries) until quality, and power was "discovered".
> 
> Now Orbtronic is selling its own brand with Panasonic 3100, and 3400mAh cells inside.



Now it's making more sense. Good to know they realized the errors in their ways and did something about it.

What is weird though, is the link that is 1 1/2 years old goes to the "updated battery", and that is why I was thrown off. I would think they would kill the old URL and make a new one with the updated battery. 

Now I just need to make sure the light I'm looking at won't take this battery down past 2.5v, and I can go unprotected Panasonic 3100 since I'll be charging these on a $179.00 Checkpoint charger.


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## space-cowboy (Nov 14, 2012)

Verndog said:


> Now it's making more sense. Good to know they realized the errors in their ways and did something about it.
> 
> What is weird though, is the link that is 1 1/2 years old goes to the "updated battery", and that is why I was thrown off. I would think they would kill the old URL and make a new one with the updated battery.
> 
> Now I just need to make sure the light I'm looking at won't take this battery down past 2.5v, and I can go unprotected Panasonic 3100 since I'll be charging these on a $179.00 Checkpoint charger.




Owner of those links is Amazon (not Orbtronic), so updating would be pretty hard.

As long as you charge them to 4.2V (not more) with CC/CV algorithm, you will be OK.


----------



## Verndog (Nov 14, 2012)

space-cowboy said:


> Owner of those links is Amazon (not Orbtronic), so updating would be pretty hard.
> 
> As long as you charge them to 4.2V (not more) with CC/CV algorithm, you will be OK.



Yes, the charger has a cc/cv profile for Li-ion 1 cell @ 4.2 so no problem there. 1c charge rate seems high so I'll prob. charge @ 1amp so it will be 3-4 hour charge on discharged battery. Sound like a safe charge rate??

Thanks for your help BTW.:twothumbs


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## space-cowboy (Nov 14, 2012)

Verndog said:


> Yes, the charger has a cc/cv profile for Li-ion 1 cell @ 4.2 so no problem there. 1c charge rate seems high so I'll prob. charge @ 1amp so it will be 3-4 hour charge on discharged battery. Sound like a safe charge rate??
> 
> Thanks for your help BTW.:twothumbs



Yes, 1C is too high.

1A is perfect.

No problem, at CPF you can find bunch of useful info, just use that search box.


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## eugenedbrooksiii (Dec 31, 2012)

I am posting this in response to requests for an independent review of the Soshine four slot charger sold by Orbtronic. I bought my charger in the middle of December, 2012. I have no business relationship with Soshine or Orbtronic.


The charger has four completely independent charge circuits fed by the 12 volt source that can be either the wall wart or the car adapter. I confirmed this by opening it up and finding four independent switched power conversion and charge control circuits, and I also checked that adding batteries did not influence the current to the battery circuit under test.

The sliding contacts in the charger can handle a battery as short as 50 mm, but I have only tried it with 18650 batteries.


The charger has a soft start with the charge current measuring 0.47 amps while the battery is under 3 volts. When 3 volts is reached the current bumps up to the 1 amp specification, measuring at 0.985 amps on my multimeter. When the battery exceeds 3.7 volts or so the charge current begins to taper off. The charge current is about 0.5 amps at 3.9 volts. The indicator light switches from red to blinking green at a battery voltage of 4.25 volts. The voltage has dropped to 4.2 volts when the charger shows a solid green light.


The charger does a fine job on high capacity 18650 batteries. It will green light a completely discharged 3400 ma-hr Panasonic battery in about three hours and 45 minutes. The electronics in the charger can get warm when charging four completely discharged batteries and might benefit from ventilation slots or holes to let the heat out.


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