# Best Mod with Aspheric lense to create a super thrower?



## 007adan (Mar 25, 2010)

All you guys out there there with tons of experience with modification, What is the best flashlight to throw a aspheric lense and reflector into that will create a super-thrower? All with out having to tinker around. I know Deal Extreme has tons of Glass Optics or Aspheric lenses to choose from, tons of different reflectors and tons of host bodies with tons of drop in modules. The thing is no one can put all these items together to create a killer thrower. It would be nice for everything to drop-in with minor or no modification. Does anyone have a mod that they have done that made a really nice super thrower?


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## 007adan (Mar 25, 2010)

I took the advice of a forum member on Deal Extreme and made a really nice thrower out of an ok light. Heres how I did it.
First buy the UltraFire WF-501B Cree R2-WC 250 lumen flashlight (sku.16240) * Order and install 26.5mm Aluminum Reflector Drop-in Module Set (sku.5955) and Glass Optics for Flashlights (28mm) (sku.5297) Those parts are 100% drop-in for this light. This modification was really amazing. All this for under $20 dollars. I own the Wf-800 and the Wf-008 recoil thrower and this modded light takes the edge. Such a small light and tons of throw...*


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## tx101 (Mar 25, 2010)

Deerelight aspheric head

Or

Tiablo A9 with aspheric head


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## 007adan (Mar 25, 2010)

tx101,

Agreed these are the best. But I am looking for something a little cheaper that will give comparable results.


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## NickBose (Mar 30, 2010)

Why modding when you can get this spot / monster thrower light so cheap with LiFePO4 battery and LCD battery indicator, as long as you can live with a rechargeable light? That will be my next buy.

More photos
The wall shot shows that this DX spotlight is comparable to the Tiablo A9, but both hotspots are not as intense as the Dereelight's.

Anyone know which LED is used in the DX spotlight?


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## moviles (Mar 30, 2010)

NickBose said:


> Why modding when you can get this spot / monster thrower light so cheap with LiFePO4 battery and LCD battery indicator, as long as you can live with a rechargeable light? That will be my next buy.
> 
> More photos
> The wall shot shows that this DX spotlight is comparable to the Tiablo A9, but both hotspots are not as intense as the Dereelight's.
> ...



I have this flashlight

the a9 with tiablo collimator are more thrower

with tiablo collimator and Q5 @ 2.8 amp we can get 70000 [email protected] 

with this flashlight we can get only 35000 [email protected] 
and the host its plastic and have too bad heatsink

http://www.google.com/translate?u=h...php?f=5&t=298&langpair=es|en-CN&hl=en&ie=UTF8


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## moviles (Mar 30, 2010)

NickBose said:


> Anyone know which LED is used in the DX spotlight?



XR-E package, ez1000 chip , flux bin ...unknown... q2-r2

the only good thing : the lens have small focal length

we lose less lumens

left: tiablo lens, right: dx spotlight


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## NickBose (Mar 30, 2010)

Thanks Moviles, I'll think twice before spending on that spotlight. Looks like you also have a led lenser there, or is it a $10 clone also sold on DX?


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## eXigez (Apr 1, 2010)

007adan said:


> I took the advice of a forum member on Deal Extreme and made a really nice thrower out of an ok light. Heres how I did it.
> First buy the UltraFire WF-501B Cree R2-WC 250 lumen flashlight (sku.16240) * Order and install 26.5mm Aluminum Reflector Drop-in Module Set (sku.5955) and Glass Optics for Flashlights (28mm) (sku.5297) Those parts are 100% drop-in for this light. This modification was really amazing. All this for under $20 dollars. I own the Wf-800 and the Wf-008 recoil thrower and this modded light takes the edge. Such a small light and tons of throw...*




Hi all,
Probably a silly question but... will the above mod work on my UltraFire WF-501B Cree XPE-WCR5 320-Lumen LED Flashlight?


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## SmurfTacular (Apr 1, 2010)

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16240

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5297

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5955


Then you have a mini pocket thrower. It throw's an unbelievable beam of light for about $18.


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## mejesster (Apr 1, 2010)

Going to second the Tiablo A9 with aspheric lens that is sold on CPFMP. It's a pretty awesome thrower.


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## andyw513 (Apr 1, 2010)

I created a very weird beam on an L2 I had:

Solarforce L2 1x18650 host
Solarforce MC-E drop-in
DX 28mm "aspherical" lens

Results: at around 50m (far as I've been able to try it so far), I got a huge square of light with a cross in the middle. It certainly is a weird beam shape, but it does throw a whole lot better.


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## SCEMan (Apr 1, 2010)

moviles said:


> with tiablo collimator and Q5 @ 2.8 amp we can get 70000 [email protected]




Q5 at 2.8A? How often do you repace LEDs?


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## Ska-T (Apr 1, 2010)

007adan said:


> First buy the UltraFire WF-501B Cree R2-WC 250 lumen flashlight (sku.16240)


According to BatteryJunction.com, an Ultrafire 18650 protected cell is 66.5 mm long and a protected 16340 is 36 mm, which means that 2 x 16340's are 72 mm long. Does anyone know if two protected 16340's fit in an UltraFire WF-501B?


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## Dark Laser (Apr 2, 2010)

SCEMan said:


> Q5 at 2.8A? How often do you repace LEDs?





LED torture! :mecry:

Perhaps you meant *1*.8A? Which still is more than enough...


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## FLT MEDIC (Apr 3, 2010)

Ska-T said:


> According to BatteryJunction.com, an Ultrafire 18650 protected cell is 66.5 mm long and a protected 16340 is 36 mm, which means that 2 x 16340's are 72 mm long. Does anyone know if two protected 16340's fit in an UltraFire WF-501B?



Two protected 16340s won't fit unless you cut the drop-in spring and/or tailcap battery spring. If you do, you won't be able to use a 18650, 2 unprotected 16340s or 2 CR123As.


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## KeyGrip (Apr 3, 2010)

andyw513 said:


> Solarforce L2 1x18650 host
> Solarforce *MC-E *drop-in
> 
> Results: at around 50m (far as I've been able to try it so far), I got a huge square of light with a cross in the middle.


Bold added by me.

This is a normal byproduct of using a multi-die emitter with an aspheric lens. Since at the sharpest focus you are projecting a perfect image of the emitter you are going to end up looking at a large projection of the four bright dice with the dark cross in the middle. It must look pretty cool.


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## Ska-T (Apr 3, 2010)

FLT MEDIC said:


> Two protected 16340s won't fit ...


Thanks, Flt Medic.


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## andyw513 (Apr 6, 2010)

KeyGrip said:


> Bold added by me.
> 
> This is a normal byproduct of using a multi-die emitter with an aspheric lens. Since at the sharpest focus you are projecting a perfect image of the emitter you are going to end up looking at a large projection of the four bright dice with the dark cross in the middle. It must look pretty cool.


 

It does look pretty cool/weird, *KeyGrip*. The only trouble is learning not to aim the center of the beam at what you are trying to see, it is almost like making a cross out of your fingers and holding it close to your eyes. The beam profile in fog is something else, it resembles a sci-fi movie. 

As far as throw, it does a great job. It's no A9, but it can still project both far and wide, where width of the beam is an issue with single die emitters. Luckily, I have an SST-90 drop-in I recently got from *Nailbender*, I can't wait to see what that can do with an aspherical lens.:thinking:


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## SmurfTacular (Apr 7, 2010)

OK, so I think the universal decision in this thread is that the ultrafire 501 light with a smooth reflector and aspherical lens is the most cost effective pocket thrower.

But what about something physically bigger. Like a Maglite. What would be the best throwing reflector and aspherical lens for a D size Maglite?


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## Popsiclestix (Apr 7, 2010)

Reflectors do *not* appreciably increase throw when used with aspherical lenses.

Use one or the other.

As for the D-sized format. 

My 10W MagHID w/ aspheric beats the pants off of any incandescent bulb + aspheric combo I can find.

Surface brightness of the emitter is the thing which determines throw in an aspheric and you can't beat HID for that.

The Mag458 with FM3X (3 inch reflector/head made by forum member Fivemega) will outthrow the HID though.


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## SmurfTacular (Apr 7, 2010)

Popsiclestix said:


> Reflectors do *not* appreciably increase throw when used with aspherical lenses.
> 
> Use one or the other.
> 
> ...



HID maglite??? You can do that? How does a ballast fit inside a Maglite?


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## rayman (Apr 7, 2010)

There is a round ballast which will fit in a D-Maglite but I don't find the thread anymore.

rayman


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## 007adan (Apr 7, 2010)

Has anyone tried using a two lens system? This is why deft is the king of throw isn't it. They use a single emitter with a two lens system and a huge aspherical lens. Can anyone put their 2 cents in on this subject...


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## SmurfTacular (Apr 7, 2010)

I think Rayman's light in his avatar has two lens's. He made a thread about it. I cant find it though.


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## SmurfTacular (Apr 8, 2010)

How do you install the aspherical lens in the Ultrafire 501? I cant seem to remove the original lens, although i'm sure there is a way to remove it. But how?


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## 007adan (Apr 8, 2010)

smurftacular,

Get a small pair of needle nose pliers. If you look inside the head of the flashlight you can see a small retaining ring holding in the lens of the flashlight. This ring is notched in two spots open up your need nose pliers and put both ends in these notches and slowly unscrew this retaining ring. After a couple of turns it should turn out very easily. once you get the old lens out you can screw the aspheric lens in all the way so it's snug.


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## SmurfTacular (Apr 8, 2010)

Wow, thanks ALOT. I was contemplating breaking the glass lol

+1


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## 007adan (Apr 8, 2010)

How about using a two lens system and have one lens bulge in towards the led and the other lens bulge out of the flashlight. Isn't that how a magnifying glass works?


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## SmurfTacular (Apr 8, 2010)

OK, so I installed the lens correctly and its giving so much throw!!! from about 20ft away the diameter of the beam is 15in!!! But, its square? I was shocked and confused to see that the actual spot of the light was literally shaped like a square. I assume this is the shape of the actual LED. Anyway, aside from the massive throw, its giving me very ugly flood rings. Is there anyway I can get rid of this?


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## 007adan (Apr 9, 2010)

smurftacular,

That square shape you see is the emitter, this is a beautiful thing, it means you pretty much have your lens in perfect collimation with the led. I believe the rings you see are from cheap glass, but hey what do you expect from a $2 lens.


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## SmurfTacular (Apr 9, 2010)

I guess, is there a slightly more expensive lens to buy that wont have that flood effect?


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## Popsiclestix (Apr 11, 2010)

007adan said:


> Has anyone tried using a two lens system? This is why deft is the king of throw isn't it. They use a single emitter with a two lens system and a huge aspherical lens. Can anyone put their 2 cents in on this subject...



For LEDs, a collimator optic will work fine because the light is projected in the forward 180 degrees direction. For HID/incandescent, this is not optimal because at least half the light will be projected backwards. The best way then is an elliptical reflector with the source at one focus and the focus of the aspherical lens at the other focus. This is how HID projection systems in cars work.

I leave it to the readers as to how to machine such a reflector, but needless to say it would probably need to be CNC.


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## KeyGrip (Apr 11, 2010)

SmurfTacular said:


> I guess, is there a slightly more expensive lens to buy that wont have that flood effect?



Every beamshot I've seen of a sharply focused aspheric/LED combo has big rings around the square image of the emitter. I don't think there's much to be done about it.


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## SmurfTacular (Apr 11, 2010)

Got it, thanks.


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## 007adan (Apr 13, 2010)

What is the difference with a smaller aspheric lens vs a larger lens? What comes into play with this scenario?​


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## JulianP (Apr 16, 2010)

007adan said:


> I took the advice of a forum member on Deal Extreme and made a really nice thrower out of an ok light. Heres how I did it.
> First buy the UltraFire WF-501B Cree R2-WC 250 lumen flashlight (sku.16240) * Order and install 26.5mm Aluminum Reflector Drop-in Module Set (sku.5955) and Glass Optics for Flashlights (28mm) (sku.5297) Those parts are 100% drop-in for this light. This modification was really amazing. All this for under $20 dollars. I own the Wf-800 and the Wf-008 recoil thrower and this modded light takes the edge. Such a small light and tons of throw...*



Thanks, I just received all the parts today, and assembled your super-thrower. You are right, best bang for your buck here!


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## gcbryan (Apr 17, 2010)

JulianP said:


> Thanks, I just received all the parts today, and assembled your super-thrower. You are right, best bang for your buck here!



I'm not sure how your light is put together so this might not be possible but can you remove the reflector and just leave the led and the aspheric lens and still get the light to come on?

If so, could you take it outside tonight as see if it throws just as well (or better) without the reflector?


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## 007adan (Apr 17, 2010)

This fella has a p60 drop-in module. Not possible to take the reflector out.
I have an asperic mag-lite that I made and don't really notice a difference with the reflector in or out.


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## gcbryan (Apr 17, 2010)

007adan said:


> This fella has a p60 drop-in module. Not possible to take the reflector out.
> I have an asperic mag-lite that I made and don't really notice a difference with the reflector in or out.



Ah! Thanks. So, it looks like they don't really need to be ordering that smooth reflector to replace the reflector that they already have since the reflector isn't what is making a difference anyway.


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## JulianP (Apr 17, 2010)

I tried it with the smooth reflector and the original orange-peel reflector. I prefer the smooth reflector, because it gives you a bright spot surrounded by darkness (plus a few barely visible rings). 

The OP reflector on the other hand has quite a bit of spill around the bright spot. For $3.08 you too can spend 15 minutes checking which is better. Ultimately, it boils down to personal choice, $3.08, and pursuing a great hobby.

PS I took the flashlight out for a walk tonight, and it out-throws my P7 (900 DX lumens, aka 500 lumens). The only one which still outhrows it is my Chinese maxabeam ripoff, a short-arc spotlight even I can afford.


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## gcbryan (Apr 17, 2010)

JulianP said:


> I tried it with the smooth reflector and the original orange-peel reflector. I prefer the smooth reflector, because it gives you a bright spot surrounded by darkness (plus a few barely visible rings).
> 
> The OP reflector on the other hand has quite a bit of spill around the bright spot. For $3.08 you too can spend 15 minutes checking which is better. Ultimately, it boils down to personal choice, $3.08, and pursuing a great hobby.
> 
> PS I took the flashlight out for a walk tonight, and it out-throws my P7 (900 DX lumens, aka 500 lumens). The only one which still outhrows it is my Chinese maxabeam ripoff, a short-arc spotlight even I can afford.



Interesting. I have some parts coming including a R2 drop in that comes with a smooth reflector I think. I have an extra reflector (it's a P60 so I have to use a reflector) and I may paint it black to compare the results with the smooth reflector.


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## JulianP (Apr 17, 2010)

gcbryan; I may paint it black to compare the results with the smooth reflector.[/QUOTE said:


> Painting it black? Now, that is a good idea. I was thinking of something like an extension tube after the lens, to block spill. It would be impractical, and your suggestion sounds far better...particularly as I now do have a spare reflector.


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## gcbryan (Apr 17, 2010)

JulianP said:


> Painting it black? Now, that is a good idea. I was thinking of something like an extension tube after the lens, to block spill. It would be impractical, and your suggestion sounds far better...particularly as I now do have a spare reflector.



Post back with the results. I assume it will make a difference but who knows!


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## JulianP (Apr 17, 2010)

I couldn't help myself. It's night time here (Sydney) and I don't have any black paint. So I used a permanent marker and blacked out the OP reflector. The result is poor, as some of the light still gets through. I realize however that we are on the right track here for a bright spot surrounded by darkness. I took two photos.
Here is the first, with the smooth reflector:




and here is the one blacked out with the permanent marker:




Sorry about the amateur photos, and even worse reflector mod!


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## gcbryan (Apr 17, 2010)

At least now I can see what it looks like with a reflector. You get the spot but there is still spill.

With the darkened end (if done with paint) it should just be the spot more or less like my DX flood-to-throw light.

It also looks like the spot is round rather than a rectangular copy of the emitter. This must mean that the aspheric lens is slightly out of focus...which looks better actually as long as it throws well.


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## JulianP (Apr 19, 2010)

I just noticed that DX is advertising a P7 drop-in module that would fit the Ultrafire 501. 

While it is unlikely to have the claimed 900 lumen output, it might make a bigger hotspot. 

Elsewhere in CPF threads, people argue that the P7 will not have a bigger throw because the surface brightness is no greater than the  Cree XR-E R2-WC. The P7 is just a bigger die. 

As far as overheating...I wont even go there. I would however appreciate other members' thoughts on using a P7 + Aspheric lens + Ultrafire 501.


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## 007adan (Apr 19, 2010)

A P7 emitter is meant for flooding. Some have tried to use it with an aspherical lens but it doesn't work that well. You get 4 little squares that are bright but not as bright as a single emitter. I took a 50mm aspherical lens to my ssc p7 light and was not that impressed.


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## JulianP (Apr 19, 2010)

After trawling through DX a bit longer, I found this drop-in module with a claimed 410 lumens. Again, the die looks a bit bigger, and divided into four squares, like the P7. Worth a try? I am not game to waste $23.23 on it unless someone can convince me it will outthrow the P2.


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## SmurfTacular (Apr 19, 2010)

JulianP said:


> After trawling through DX a bit longer, I found this drop-in module with a claimed 410 lumens. Again, the die looks a bit bigger, and divided into four squares, like the P7. Worth a try? I am not game to waste $23.23 on it unless someone can convince me it will outthrow the P2.



if its divided into four emitters than its going to be a horrible aspherical thrower. 
When you do a aspherical lens mod, the lens throws the shape on the LED. Whatever shape the LED is; in this case, a P7, it throws four squares that are fairly spaced apart from each other.

pics up soon


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## Midnight Oil (Sep 23, 2010)

SmurfTacular said:


> OK, so I installed the lens correctly and its giving so much throw!!! from about 20ft away the diameter of the beam is 15in!!! But, its square? I was shocked and confused to see that the actual spot of the light was literally shaped like a square. I assume this is the shape of the actual LED. Anyway, aside from the massive throw, its giving me very ugly flood rings. Is there anyway I can get rid of this?



I estimate the size of the hotspot of my XR-E R2, driven @ 1.2A in a Dereelight DBS V3 SMO, to be approximately 25ft in diameter at an approximate distance of 600ft.

This means the divergence angle is approximately 2*atan(12.5ft/600ft) = 2.4 degrees

According to your measurements, the divergence angle with the lens installed is approximately 2*atan(0.625ft/20ft) = 3.6 degrees.

If the math is right, that is impressive!


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## redbolt (Dec 20, 2011)

they already buy from DX lenses because they have a new series that does not work well is a waste.: Shakehead


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