# Duracell too hesitant and reluctant to say if battery a fake.



## cheaperrooter (Aug 18, 2017)

Long story sorry for the read. Ordered 100 AA Duracell's on Amazon. They came in a generic white box, loose, 25 to box. Immediately they just didn't look right to me. I noticed they were missing expiration dates and then when I finally found the expiration it was at the very top next to the plus signal, etched into the label running perpendicular to the Duracell name.

Thinking maybe these were for a different foreign country and that's just the way they did it I started googling pictures of examples of fake Duracell's. All hundred batteries failed the genuine test because they had the following.

1) No batch numbers written anywhere on the battery.
2) The expiration date in a different location 
3) The name Duracell is etched into the very bottom, flat part of the battery 
4) Duracell doesn't sell copper top batteries loose but only packaged in a retail card.

But because I am a prepper and I stock hundreds of these, now curious I went back and checked my last 200 Duracell's I also purchased on Amazon, each an order of 100. Both orders of 100 had the name Duracell was printed on the very flat bottom of the AA battery and came loose.

Finding it hard to believe now that three different businesses sold me three different batches of 100 fake and counterfeit Duracell batteries and all 300 were bought at different times over the last three years, I decided to call Duracell to see if the information out there on Google is correct.

My focal point was two things and one was the fact that the name Duracell was etched into the bottom flat part of the AA battery and that they were missing batch code numbers in all 300. 

First I sent them emails with pictures attached and asked whether or not Duracell ever prints their name on the bottom of the battery and whether they should all have a batch code. I got a generic response with tips to look out for but was told the batteries will have to be sent in before they could make a determination. They failed to answer the 2 direct questions I asked them. 

Sent them a second email with once again the above two specific questions asking why would they not answer them and once AGAIN they failed to answer them, but the email was less generic and appeared to be a direct response and said that the batteries have to be sent in.

Sent a third email frustrated and irritated and I asked them why they continue to avoid answering 2 very simple questions. I got no response this time..

I then called and spoke to a gentleman. I explained the entire situation and yet his response?? He would not answer those two questions "initially" but just said that I had to send them in the mail. Being more hardheaded now and not excepting that for an answer I finally pinned him into a corner and I asked him three direct questions.

Does Duracell EVER etch or put their name on the bottom of the battery? He said no, that's very rare, but because of manufacturing processes the only way to say for sure I would have to send them in.

I then asked does Duracell ever loose pack Copper top AA batteries? Pete repeat. No, they are only packed in retail cards, but because of manufacturing processes the only way to tell for sure...

Then I asked my last question, do Duracell batteries always have a batch number written on them? He said yes they do, but because of manufacturing proc.... (not even sure what the heck that means)

So I asked him a very simple and logical question. If Duracell never loose packs, never prints their name on the bottom of the battery and they all have batch numbers written on them and none of my 300 batteries meet those qualifications why exactly do I have to send them in to be checked? 

I mean, if Duracell never puts their name on the bottom and my batteries have their name on the bottom, why exactly do I need a team of specialists at Duracell to tell me whether or not they are fake, that would mean they ARE fake right? 

From this point it was me asking the same questions over and over worded a bit differently and him saying the same thing, that I would have to send them in because of manufacturing processes! It just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and either you do or you do not do something and manufacturing processes would mean that maybe it's a fluke, they made a mistake. But not with three different batches of 100 batteries over three years. 

I don't understand their hesitancy at simply saying that they are fake??? Or telling me the three things they do and do not do but then going on to say that possibly those three things can or cannot take place because of manufacturing processes?

SMH. I'm assuming there is a really big problem with fake batteries and I did contact all three sellers at Amazon and all of them assured me that they order direct from the manufacture and have to pass and prove authenticity for Amazon.

Honestly I just don't know what to believe now and I don't know whether these batteries are fake or not!!!


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## TinderBox (UK) (Aug 18, 2017)

> 4) Duracell doesn't sell copper top batteries loose but only packaged in a retail card.



You can buy Duracell copper top AA in white cardboard boxes of 40 on Amazon UK

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003E0IAS2/

John.


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 18, 2017)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> You can buy Duracell copper top AA in white cardboard boxes of 40 on Amazon UK
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003E0IAS2/
> 
> John.




I'm not really sure I follow your point John? You don't have to buy them like that in the UK, you can buy them like that right here in America. I know because I just ordered them and received them, as my post said in the first couple sentences, I received them in a generic white box. So I'm not really following you?

I'm not discussing whether or not you can get them like that, im discussing whether or not getting them like that means they are fake as according to Duracell they don't ever sell them like that!


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## fmc1 (Aug 18, 2017)

This article helped me identify the fake ones I had.

https://thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html


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## TinderBox (UK) (Aug 18, 2017)

Can we have some photo`s of the suspect battery`s

John.


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 18, 2017)

I think you need to speak with somebody in the Tech department if you want them to help you out, or just send the batteries back and buy from a known distributor.

Ms. Sally, or Barry, manning the help lines to tell you which way to insert the battery into your new widget, probably don't know much about the nuts and bolts.

Amazon is now known as a place selling counterfeit goods.

Chris


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 19, 2017)

Thanks FMC1, but that's one of the many different sites I went to to verify. All of them and I mean all of them say if Duracell is printed on the bottom of the battery it's a fake. Yet? Every single Duracell that I own has it printed there and I'm just finding it hard to believe that fake Duracell's are so rampid that three different companies sold me three different batches through three different years and nobody has complained about it? And on Amazon? And I have three sellers telling me they get them through a certified Duracell representative that deals direct from the factory with a certificate of authenticity to prove to Amazon???

Yet Duracell says it shouldn't be there also, unless it's a manufacturing process...

Something is just not right here. Something is really really really wrong because I am sure that thousands of customers bought the same Duracell's as well as me and based on the amount of reviews I would say that's a verifiable fact. Yet they are all counterfeit?

The only one thing going in my favor is the label doesn't appear to be cheap and cannot be peeled off whatsoever. The label is installed very well!!!

I would attach pictures but I believe this site is one of those that won't let you attach a pic or copy and paste and I have to send a link to an off site area I've just never done that. Too complicated for a simple pic an old man like me


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## lumen aeternum (Aug 19, 2017)

They are not going to disclose information that would help you to make better fakes.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 19, 2017)

The premise of your thread is condescending, and does not show real proof that Duracell is culpable re your insinuations. Be cautious re your assertions.

Bill


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 19, 2017)

Bullzeyebill said:


> The premise of your thread is condescending, and does not show real proof that Duracell is culpable re your insinuations. Be cautious re your assertions.
> 
> Bill



Honestly, I don't have ANY clue what you're trying to say Bill... everything I stated is 100% factual. If it's condescending that could very well be your interpretation of it, but it is what it is what it is. Personally, even if it is, so what?

That doesn't change or alter anything that I said. I'm just stating simple, actual facts that took place and there's nothing wrong in trying to determine if my batteries are fake and warning everyone else to be careful or they are they are going to get caught up in this also, if they haven't already. 

I'm not trying to "Prove" anything, I'm trying to get Duracell / Amazon / Sellers at Amazon / to "prove" to me these are NOT fake!


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 19, 2017)

I think everyone is underestimating the major impact of this thread. We have websites all over Google that are saying if the batteries have "this" they are fake.

I have Duracell that is absolutely agreeing with those websites, but then leaving themselves an out by saying
"but because of manufacturing processes" it's possible it could happen. That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. 

We have the nations largest online retailer that is in theory, supposedly, according to these websites AND according to Duracell, selling me fake batteries..

I don't know about you, but in the world of things that need to be investigated further, I would say this makes it to the top!!!


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## TinderBox (UK) (Aug 19, 2017)

Posts some photo`s get an free IMGUR.com account and upload some.

John.


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 19, 2017)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Posts some photo`s get an free IMGUR.com account and upload some.
> 
> John.



I hope this works if it doesn't I give up! I don't understand certain sites that won't let you attach files but I'm sure there's a good reason. Honestly I'm not sure what good posting pics will do, unless there are people out there that can spot the differences as an expert, which would be absolutely wonderful and exactly what I'm looking for!

However, my point is, my pics are basically going to look EXACTLY like the batteries that are shown on the fake sites, so looking at one of their batteries they claim is a fake would be just as good as looking at mine.

Here goes let's see if it works! There should be 4 pictures 

https://imgur.com/gallery/AOILw


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## leon2245 (Aug 19, 2017)

Just send a single example battery from each of the three shipments you purchased for inspection.

Sending three AA's won't be much hassle/cost, and then you're verified one way or the other... unless this is really more about the principle of them not handling it in the manner you want them to, in which case good luck. They're just not going to confirm 100% in case you go back to the sellers with claims of fakes, and they turn out not to be, or vice versa if you're holding fakes, so they leave themselves wiggle room in case of coincidence.

sounds like they'll confirm if you send them in though, good luck.


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## KITROBASKIN (Aug 19, 2017)

The photos do work. As a fellow consumer, I can't help agreeing with your consternation. 

But Maybe it is as leon has indicated: The people involved here do not want to write something that somebody else's lawyer can file a lawsuit against, including this forum... Duracell surely has a staff of lawyers and would not incur extra expense to go after anyone. Duracell has probably received erroneous claims from consumers about cells that turned out to be legitimate. Who knows for sure if that website claiming what is a fake and what is genuine, is actually accurate?


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## TinderBox (UK) (Aug 19, 2017)

Check the link below, the Duracell battery`s have Duracell on the bottom of the negative end.

http://goughlui.com/2016/12/19/great-aa-alkaline-battery-test-pt-4-cell-physical-characteristics/

John.


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## xxo (Aug 19, 2017)

Two things that weigh against them being fake is that they are marked as made in China and "Original Equipment Accessory" looks like they were intended to be the "batteries included" for something made in China and originally packed in bulk. Might not be as good as USA duracells, but probably(??) not fake. If you need to know for sure send samples to Duracell as they requested.


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## SilverFox (Aug 19, 2017)

Hello Cheaperrooter,

My OPINION is that they are not fake...

BUT.

Will they work for your intended use.

This brings us to testing. When I stockpile I take a few cells and test them. I compare the results to data sheets and put my notes in with the rest of the cells. A few years later I do another test to see how things are progressing.

While there are some variations batch to batch those variations are usually small. Damage can occur during shipping and storage prior to sale. If you purchase from several sources and the cells all test the same, you are good to go. If there are variations you need to find a different source while you try to figure out what happened. Many times you will never know for sure.

Tom


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 19, 2017)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Check the link below, the Duracell battery`s have Duracell on the bottom of the negative end.
> 
> http://goughlui.com/2016/12/19/great-aa-alkaline-battery-test-pt-4-cell-physical-characteristics/
> 
> John.



And see that's specifically my point John, I'm just wondering exactly how well spread this problem is? Those batteries you linked to clearly show Duracell printed on the bottom. And yet? All of the counterfeit sites say if Duracell was printed there than they are fake? DURACELL individual I spoke with said that it's fake. Well I take that back. That was my conclusion after he said "that it's very rare to have the name there and they do NOT stamp their name on the bottom.

To make matters worse? I have another batch of 100 with NOTHING written on the bottom it's just blank.

I think I'm going to do two things. I've been told by many that the safest way is to go to a retailer like Walmart or Lowe's and buy them in the carded version and compare them to the fake sites and to what I have. Then I will send off all three samples to Duracell and if they verify they are genuine? Then we have fake Duracell sites that are fake! LOL.

Bottom line is truly this, at best, it's extremely confusing and very mystifying and everyone but everyone has reason to worry about whether or not the Duracell battery they have in their possession is actually a Duracell!

I like what XXO said, as that would also explain exactly why these batteries are being sold loose when Duracell says they don't sell them loose.


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 19, 2017)

I think Silverfox is right, in saying that his "opinion" is... we can speculate all day but I think because I have discovered that this is a deeper problem and that because we have sites that are claiming to show you examples of how you can tell it is fake and that information on those sites is contradicting to the information I am actually receiving and looking at, I can put an end to this very simply. I will send all three batteries off to Duracell and let's see what they say. 

I'll repost back here in which I'm sure is something that will take at least a couple weeks and then we can determine if all of the sites are incorrect and giving out false information for starters, and we can figure out once and for all the actual truth as to whether or not the batteries I have are fake. 

If they are? We have a MAJOR worldwide problem. If they are not? Then we have a lot of sites claiming to give information about fake batteries that is completely inaccurate AND Duracell needs to retrain their associates who answer questions concerning the status of a fake battery.

Either way we are going to find out some extremely important information here as regardless of how Duracell answers one or the other is going to be blown out of the water and exposed as giving fraudulent information!

So thats a WIN-WIN for me and should be for everyone here!


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## archimedes (Aug 19, 2017)

Bullzeyebill said:


> The premise of your thread is condescending, and does not show real proof that Duracell is culpable re your insinuations. Be cautious re your assertions.
> 
> Bill





cheaperrooter said:


> Honestly, I don't have ANY clue what you're trying to say Bill... everything I stated is 100% factual. If it's condescending that could very well be your interpretation of it, but it is what it is what it is. Personally, even if it is, so what? ....



To clarify Bill's point, your thread is turning into a "Jeer" ... which has very specific (and stricter) rules here on CPF.

Please review those, here ...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/announcement.php?f=143&a=24

... before posting further in this thread.

That said, this is an important issue, and your (ongoing) findings are appreciated.

But moderating your tone and outrage would be helpful


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 19, 2017)

archimedes said:


> To clarify Bill's point, your thread is turning into a "Jeer" ... which has very specific (and stricter) rules here on CPF.
> 
> Please review those, here ...
> 
> ...




Well, that WAS worded much more articulately, and somewhat more elegantly for sure.. LOL. No actually, I was not aware that a jeer had more specific guidelines, so I will read and apply accordingly, assuming it's not a dictionary worth of reading. Only long reads that I write Archimedes is important to read... geez....LOL

But I would rather say that words are VERY easy to misinterpret, and what may be coming across as a jeer, is nothing more than passion, being a very righteous person, combined with much frustration, about subject matter which should be much easier to navigate around and get to the bottom of. 

This is obviously a big enough issue that several sites have been created to do nothing more than to properly inform consumers as to whether or not a Duracell battery is authentic or not. So yes, I do find it extremely frustrating that Duracell themselves do not have their own website for this, their own information, their own pictures and do not appear to be as interested in preventing its OWN customers from possibly purchasing a fraudulent copy of their own product, other than to give very generalized tips and misleading statements from their own representatives, which do very little if any good to prevent this from happening.

I personally am aware of several companies who passionately defend its products and are very proactive in letting their customers know that they may be buying a knock off. So yes, I am very frustrated they are not more aggressive on either phone calls or social media to try and help their very own customers, that are trying to buy their very own products, from making a very huge mistake.

That said, I promise I will read those regulations and see if being frustrated with a company, and then being very vocal about it, is interpreted by this forum as a jeer. I would hope not because then I would start to believe that all complaints with all companies would have to be candy coated and then I will start to have reservations and be awful reluctant in believing anything that I read


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## snakebite (Aug 19, 2017)

i suspect there are legal reasons for not giving the info without actually seeing the suspect batteries.
and its not unusual to see stuff intended for a different region wind up here.
these items may only carry the name and made locally under license.
they may or may not be made on duracell official equipment.
they could even be produced in a competitors factory under contract.and duracell may produce that companies product for sale in a region where they have no manufacturing capability.
i once did a repair on a rayovac labeling machine and they had a huge rack of label rolls consisting of at least 50 brands they produce for.
many were likely store/private label brands.one i did recognise was everactive.thats walmart.


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## Ozythemandias (Aug 19, 2017)

I don't see how Duracell is at fault here, if anything it's Amazon's commingling that is a widespread issue. 

I just want to express my disappointment that you bought that many alkaline cells


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## terjee (Aug 19, 2017)

Sorry if it's already been mentioned and I missed it, but...

It's entirely possible that they're reluctant to answer simply because they just don't know. And that's actually fair enough.

If given a question like "did your company ever do X?", I probably couldn't answer for half the companies I've worked for. And in none of those companies would I go on a company-wide search to try to find a definitive answer, unless there was a sufficiently compelling reason to do so. 

Another possibility is that they're reluctant to answer, because they might be manufacturing it from one market, and not intending those products to cross over into your market. If the answer is "Yes, we make them for emerging markets using older equipment", that could be awkward to explain. It's not uncommon for companies to have several completely different pipelines for different markets, sometimes even not sharing anything beyond the name. It's also entirely possibly that containers full of those (cheaper) products are crossing into your region, due to lower costs for the vendors.

I get why you want the answers, but sometimes it's just not that simple. Could perhaps have been handled better on their part, I'll give you that, but most of this falls within what I'd consider reasonable (assuming I didn't miss anything of importance).


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 19, 2017)

I understand and feel your pain, as the thread gets longer it's a pain to start at the very top and read to the bottom so I'll give a quick recap.

I'm only blaming Duracell because if in fact they "never" print their name on the bottom, which is what I'm being told (more or less) than there would be NO reason to send the batteries in to be authenticated by experts because that automatically means they are fake if mine have them. Secondly, I have no reason to disagree with them because the websites that show examples of a fake Duracell, also say that if Duracell was on the bottom they are fake.

Remember those two other things also, one of which is Duracell says there is always but always a batch code number laser etched on the battery, which sounds totally logical to me, and none of my batteries have any code at all.

So my batteries have Duracell on the bottom and they are missing the batch code. So why should I go through the trouble of sending them in if it's automatically been determined that they are fake? The phone call with Duracell agrees with both of those points of information but yet are still telling me to mail them in? 

Here is one site that says if Duracell is on the bottom it is fake below. So in short, and I have no reason to disagree, if both Duracell and then the three different sites that show pics as proof that a Duracell is fake, agree with each other, why am I being asked to mail them in it's a no-brainer? 

I didn't show pics of my other battery and it is slightly different as it does not mention original equipment but it also does not have a batch code anywhere. 

http://www.thedigitalphotoguy.com/2016/09/09/fake-duracell-aa-aaa-batteries/


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 19, 2017)

Also, which is definitely worth mentioning, intuitively, instinctually, I really do NOT believe my Duracell's are fake. Just because of the odds of buying three different batches from three different sellers over three different years through a very reputable company such as Amazon, as if I were to believe that, I would have to believe the problem is so widespread it's way beyond repair.


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## Ozythemandias (Aug 19, 2017)

Which is quite likely. 

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blog/blog.pl?/pl/2012/8/1346263722.html


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## terjee (Aug 19, 2017)

About the seeming paradox of being asked to send in when it seems to follow from facts and logic alone, that they must be fakes... 

That fact and logic would make sense if you were speaking with Duracell, and all the collected wisdom contained therein, but you're not. You're talking with some employee, with limited knowledge, trying to do their job without all the facts. Maybe even following a detailed script, or specific instructions that this is the way to handle calls about fakes.

One nuance I forgot to mention, is that it's within the realm of possibility that Duracell would consider a genuine Duracell made for an emerging market as a fake, if it's placed in another market. That could explain some things.

Let me be 100% clear by the way; I'm not accusing or implying that Duracell does this, and I'd rather not see any rumors float up about it. "Parallel import" as it's called, is a hot potato with more than a few legal rounds having been fought over if it's even legal to do so.

As to the number of fakes being high, and especially through Amazon... This retailer is known for letting dubious products slip through. It also wouldn't surprise me if the number of cells in emerging markets exceed the number of genuine (NOT a claim!).

If you want to get to the bottom of this, sending it in, with an added question specifically asking if it could be a genuine from another market, is probably the way to go. At least you'd know, and some of the questions in this thread would hopefully get resolved.


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 20, 2017)

That was an excellent read on that link Oxythemandias! And actually all very good ideas and possibilities from everyone that's for sure! Let's just say on my end, pre verification from Duracell, I do suspect there's something deeper going on at their corporate offices than what we see on the surface and I'll leave it at that!

I hear what you're saying Terjee, but that in and of itself is an even more complicated issue, and if you call the corporate office of any company and are directed to any individual, for all practical purposes, that individual is now a representative and spokesperson for the company. It's very hard to take it a step further and assume, that he's a nobody that knows nothing. And to make an assumption that he is not part of the collective wisdom.

The problem is, no consumer will ever have that information handy unless they work for the corporation. I mean, who is to ever say that anyone you ever speak with at any company should ever be given any validation because they are not the people that matter? I'm not saying that what you're saying is not correct, it could very well be. I'm just saying there's absolutely no way to ever know it!

One of the more amazing things that I am shocked at, is I naturally assumed when I made this post, people were going to pop on and tell me it's one of those old subjects thats been hashed out 1 million times, and try using the search bar next go round.

I mean in my opinion, and I'm sure anyone who is even vaguely interested in such crazy things as batteries and flashlights, this website is considered the definitive source and the end-all and the "buck stops here" kind of place for getting accurate, no nonsense information about such things. Truly I am not aware of any other site that can even hold a candle to this place (Pun intended) and has members that are downright experts at such things.

And yet a lowly plumber is the first to kind of expose this? I'm just shocked that nobody else here has been curious enough to look at these counterfeit sites, showing pictures of batteries, then comparing them to their own Duracell batteries, and concluding something is amiss?

Maybe that has happened and everybody just hid their head in shame and was afraid to make a post that they had been a victim when they should've known better? 

Maybe nobody has looked passed their own feet and just bought these things and they looked good enough and never gave it a second thought to even inquire as to whether or not they would be fake? 
(which is exactly what happened to me on my first 2 -100 battery batches I bought it wasn't until this third batch that made me curious enough to go back and look!) 

But I can't really explain why it has never come up before. Now to my credit, I am one of those people that doesn't take no for an answer, and will dig and dig and dig until I finally come up with the answers I am looking for and can feel satisfied that I've gotten to the bottom of something. Assuming it peaks my interest to make it worth wild! This is definitely one of those subjects 

All I can say is we will ALL find out very shortly what is what, who is who, what's truthful and what's not. And I promise I won't bring an end to this thing, at least concerning my own personal questions posted above, until I find out 100% sure what the deal is. Because I think now that the subject matter has been broached and brought to the attention of others anyone who has ever bought a Duracell battery deserves to know the answer! 

Now you want to really boggle the mind? I'm positive this also applies to Energizer, Rayovac....it may just never ever end!


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## archimedes (Aug 20, 2017)

cheaperrooter said:


> .... I can't really explain why it has never come up before....



Yes, there have been many threads here about mislabeled / fake / counterfeit / etc batteries - just to pick a few to link ...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?142357-Duracell-knock-off

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?238390-Eneloop-real-or-fake

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?316888-Fake-Ultrafire-18650-battery-warning

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?296768-Fake-SureFire-CR123-cells

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?385951-Help-me-spot-fake-Panasonic-CR123A-or-not

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?401937-Suspected-counterfeit-AW-batteries

One reason for relatively few of those threads as specifically addressing alkaline batteries here on CPF, I would suppose to be the relative lack of interest in using alkaline batteries among members of CPF :shrug:


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 21, 2017)

Thread is re-opened. Title modified.

Bill


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 21, 2017)

archimedes said:


> Yes, there have been many threads here about mislabeled / fake / counterfeit / etc batteries - just to pick a few to link ...
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?142357-Duracell-knock-off
> 
> ...




First, I would personally like to thank Bill for reopening this thread, as any others who could've possibly been involved, as I think it's a great sign why this website is so wonderful!!! Plus to say to others, if you don't get mean and yell and scream and say nasty things to the moderators they can respond very nicely to you! 

Thanks for those above links, but I was not making reference to why there were not any threads or any posts concerning the general subject of counterfeit batteries, but specifically to the Duracell alkaline issue and only then because that seems to stand out as there are other sites dedicated to that topic and that topic only 

But yes I do definitely agree that it now makes sense and I do understand why its probably not a hot topic on this particular site because there's not too many people here who use alkaline. 

In my defense, I am a prepper and so I stock hundreds and hundreds of all kinds of batteries. All told I probably have 1500. But the vast majority of my own personal usage is indeed limited to 18650 and 123a. I have 350 Surefire 123 and in excess of 50 18650, 5-4 bay chargers. And more flashlights then I want to admit in public...All Fenix. I'm a Fenix man. 

But I think the vast majority of the regular people in the world does not, and probably everything they have takes the usual assortment of alkaline batteries. I think if anything were to happen, not to get too far off subject, that a pack of AA batteries or D batteries would be worth it's weight in gold to somebody and would be a great bartering item! I have been involved in many forums for many years concerning that subject matter (prepping, doom and gloom, blah blah) and sadly can still say, an ample supply of batteries it's probably the most overlooked item still! Considering that half of our existence will be spent in the dark, I think the more flashlights and batteries one can have the merrier!

Combine that with knowing that most everyone else will get caught with their pants down, or I will die with WAY too many flashlights and batteries, it's a great thing to have to help out others 

Again I would like to thank Bill and everyone else for opening this thread back up and its VERY much appreciated!!!!


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 21, 2017)

I just looked at some Duracell USA made AAAs, AAs, Ds and some Ds from like 1997 and none of them have 'Duracell' printed on the bottom.

Most of these were bought in Miami from big box places like Home Depot, Lowes and CVS drugstores, so I doubt they're getting them from Chad, off of Amazon.

Chris


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 21, 2017)

ChrisGarrett said:


> I just looked at some Duracell USA made AAAs, AAs, Ds and some Ds from like 1997 and none of them have 'Duracell' printed on the bottom.
> 
> Most of these were bought in Miami from big box places like Home Depot, Lowes and CVS drugstores, so I doubt they're getting them from Chad, off of Amazon.
> 
> Chris



What does Chad mean? Thanks!


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 21, 2017)

cheaperrooter said:


> What does Chad mean? Thanks!



"Chad" might be the guy selling fake _word removed_ on Amazon/Ebay? I prefer the name Chang, but I switched it up a little bit, to spread the blame around.

I don't really know what's real, or what's the matrix, these days, so I'm not much help, except to caution you to buy from bona fide retailers and don't skimp there.

Chris


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 21, 2017)

This is the other battery I have. Keep in mind each battery represents 100 of them bought at once. The differences between the two, even though they have the same telltale signs of being a fake are:

The name Duracell is much smaller printed on the bottom 
Still no batch code but also missing the genuine original equipment
Missing the trashcan printed at the top with a slash through it 

https://imgur.com/gallery/pxW0Q


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 21, 2017)

Oh I gotcha Chris. John Doe  

The one reason even though they possess all the signs, that I have a reason to believe they are real is simply because of the wrapping of the label. It's on really tight and there's no removing it and here is a picture of the top of both those batteries and they have a little 45° angle slit where the label meets. That is exactly the same, universal on ALL my batteries and it's a very nice snug tight fit!

That is the main reason I want to believe they are real as I can't imagine them doing such a professional wrapping job, but then again I could be completely wrong and that may be the way that all labels attach to batteries who am I to know?? 

https://imgur.com/gallery/TzOMf


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 22, 2017)

cheaperrooter said:


> Oh I gotcha Chris. John Doe
> 
> The one reason even though they possess all the signs, that I have a reason to believe they are real is simply because of the wrapping of the label. It's on really tight and there's no removing it and here is a picture of the top of both those batteries and they have a little 45° angle slit where the label meets. That is exactly the same, universal on ALL my batteries and it's a very nice snug tight fit!
> 
> ...



Here's the question that 'we' all want to know...

What are you going to do?

Chris


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 22, 2017)

ChrisGarrett said:


> Here's the question that 'we' all want to know...
> 
> What are you going to do?
> 
> Chris



Go back to my previous posts Chris and you'll see what the plan is. Not trying to be rude I promise, just if I repeat what I already said I will be making a long thread even longer! God knows as long-winded as I am, trust me, you don't want me repeating something! LOL

I will add something I never mentioned before because it didn't seem related to the issue. But I already called Amazon and got a refund not on just the new order from last week, but from the two orders from three years ago!!! The first two were kind of easy because they were both fulfilled by Amazon, and I'm a very big buyer of Amazon stuff and they normally give me just about anything I want and I don't abuse use the privilege. But I have to still say, that was over and above for Amazon and they really didn't have to do that. 

The third one was a bit of a battle because it was with a third-party seller and as you can easily imagine, asking for a refund from an order of three years ago, well can you blame them? Of course his initial response was to stick it where the sun don't shine!

But I can be very persuasive with the use of words and after a few emails back-and-forth, I showed him the error of his ways and he agreed to send me a refund! 

If by any chance Duracell tells me these batteries are not fake? I will give the guy a call and tell him to take the money back and offer him the most profound of apologies


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## cheaperrooter (Aug 22, 2017)

Duracell also informed me that they don't sell batteries loose, only in carded retail packages (Copper-top only because Duracell Pro is loose in boxes) So I asked that third-party seller how he was able to sell me loose batteries in a white generic box and here was the reply that I just received.

Maybe someone here can verify what I have just been told because again it's just confusing to me. The master distributor I am assuming is Duracell themselves, and they are probably selling the batteries in bulk to wholesale and other businesses for a variety of reasons of which sounds like a plausible concept. I can think of dozens of reasons that businesses and wholesale companies would want them in bulk. 

What's NOT plausible is I can't imagine one of those reasons being to just turn around and resell them retail because now they are being being sold out of the retail carded container that Duracell states they only sell retail. 

"Many Batteries (Duracell, Energizer, Saft, Xeno, Maxell etc) are shipped in and sold in "bulk" from the master distributor to warehouses and businesses, which then breaks them down into smaller count and portion for various types of sales. Thus packaged appropriately in smaller bulk packages (10. 20, 4, 6, 100 etc) to be shipped to match the appropriate order size, quite similar to your order.


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## HKJ (Aug 22, 2017)

cheaperrooter said:


> Maybe someone here can verify what I have just been told because again it's just confusing to me. The master distributor I am assuming is Duracell themselves, and they are probably selling the batteries in bulk to wholesale and other businesses for a variety of reasons of which sounds like a plausible concept. I can't think of dozens of reasons that businesses and wholesale companies would want them in bulk.



The Danish retail dealer here https://www.batteribyen.dk/batterier/aa-batterier#isPage=1 looks like they are selling Duracell in bulk.


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## fmc1 (Aug 27, 2017)

I decided to do a little test to see if the fakes are really subpar in performance.
I think the results speak for themselves. 
The cell in bay 1 is the fake Duracell that I bought from one of the very popular vendors reported as selling fakes. The cell has every single tell tail sign of a fake according to this article. 
https://thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html
The cell in bay 2 is a real Duracell from Costco. It has every single sign of a real Duracell according to the above article.
The cell in bay 3 is an Eneloop also from Costco. The AA’s they sell are blue and are very close if not equal to the standard white cells. It’s about 2 years old with about 50 cycles.
The cell in bay 4 is an Eneloop Pro from Micro center. It’s about 4 months old with less than 10cycles.
Here are the settings for the test programs.
Chem=NiMH Mode=discharge cap=2200 discharge curr=.75A Dreduce=-.10A cut volt=.9V for the alkalines. Chem=eneloop mode=cycle C>D discharge curr=.75A d reduce=.10A cutvolt=1.0V for the eneloops.
Bay 1 finished in 2:28 so it had a lot of time torecover. Bay 2 finished 3:26, 3 in 3:42and finally 4 in 3:52.The photo wastaken right after bay 4 finished so it had no recovery time.


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## Going_Supernova (Sep 23, 2017)

Here's my thoughts on the subject:

IMO, Duracell is _well aware_ of counterfeit Duracell batteries on the market. BUT, they do not want to publicize the fact, as that might make consumers leery of purchasing Duracell products. *IMO, Duracell believes that sales lost to counterfeits is less than loss of sales due to loss of consumer confidence.* No doubt they prefer to handle the counterfeiting matter *quietly *through law enforcement and the State Department. Also, since there appear to be legitimate PRC-manufactured Duracells, what do you do if your PRC manufacturer also makes and sells *unauthorized* Duracells? They will have to handle the matter _diplomatically_--in other words, their hands may be tied. We are all well aware of PRC piracy when it comes to branded products, but how do you stop it, especially if the pirate company is also your licensed producer? Now, *I'm not making any accusations*, simply offering a possibility of what _could be_ going on. 

As for wanting samples of the product in question, samples would be evidence. Duracell could make accusations of counterfeiting, but without physical evidence, proof, it would just be hearsay. Your batteries could be actual physical evidence that could be used in court to back up a claim. The forensic examination of the batteries could lead to tracing who the counterfeiter is and who is in the distribution chain. This evidence will be especially important, given you purchased these through *Amazon*. *If one makes accusations about Amazon, one better have evidence in-hand. *


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## cheaperrooter (Nov 24, 2017)

Well I just give up. Not one, not two, but three different sets of batteries sent to Duracell with my name address and phone number asking if they were counterfeit or not. Waited approximately 2-3 weeks for each and was told that they did not receive and have no idea basically what I'm talking about. This was by phone.

Attempts to email were completely fruitless. They are very fond of sending the EXACT same generic reply regardless of what questions you ask. It is very obvious to me that Kevin R, product specialist, who always replies to ANY email sent to them, is not even reading what is being emailed. If he gets an email, he's going to send the same generic reply and that's just all there is to it.

Many specific questions with many different emails and get the exact same response in a generic form not even coming close to addressing any of the questions in the email. This was my last email to Kevin, which of course produced the standard generic reply that I have received 1/2 dozen times LOL.


"Well Kevin, you see, there were actually questions in my email, but I'm not going to waste my time repeating them for the 7th time. If the first six didn't receive an accurate reply..


But HEY, just LOVE the way you take a genuine interest in your job, your enthusiasm shows. You MUST be proud..


Hurry along now, you have MANY more emails awaiting your glancing of the first couple words before firing off that same ole generic reply!"



So I guess we will just really never know for sure. If anyone who works for Duracell is reading this and would like to lend a hand in helping me send these batteries off to determine if they are counterfeit or not it would be much appreciated!

Personally I absolutely love Duracell alkaline batteries and that's really the only thing I have ever stocked. However I have never once in my life had to deal with any aspect of their customer service department and now that I have, I feel they could do a much better job in that area for sure.


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## cheaperrooter (Nov 24, 2017)

Oops didn't reply with quote


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## cheaperrooter (Nov 24, 2017)

fmc1 said:


> I decided to do a little test to see if the fakes are really subpar in performance.
> I think the results speak for themselves.
> The cell in bay 1 is the fake Duracell that I bought from one of the very popular vendors reported as selling fakes. The cell has every single tell tail sign of a fake according to this article.
> https://thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html
> ...



Wow, I missed this reply! Excellent, just excellent. Well I guess that does show that most probably it's a counterfeit as the MAH rating is way off! I would like to see a close-up of the number one battery from a couple different angles just to see if it happens to match the ones that I got from Amazon. Or at a minimum, can you look at the pictures that I sent and tell me if your number one battery matches those exactly?


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## cheaperrooter (Nov 24, 2017)

Going_Supernova said:


> Here's my thoughts on the subject:
> 
> IMO, Duracell is _well aware_ of counterfeit Duracell batteries on the market. BUT, they do not want to publicize the fact, as that might make consumers leery of purchasing Duracell products. *IMO, Duracell believes that sales lost to counterfeits is less than loss of sales due to loss of consumer confidence.* No doubt they prefer to handle the counterfeiting matter *quietly *through law enforcement and the State Department. Also, since there appear to be legitimate PRC-manufactured Duracells, what do you do if your PRC manufacturer also makes and sells *unauthorized* Duracells? They will have to handle the matter _diplomatically_--in other words, their hands may be tied. We are all well aware of PRC piracy when it comes to branded products, but how do you stop it, especially if the pirate company is also your licensed producer? Now, *I'm not making any accusations*, simply offering a possibility of what _could be_ going on.
> 
> As for wanting samples of the product in question, samples would be evidence. Duracell could make accusations of counterfeiting, but without physical evidence, proof, it would just be hearsay. Your batteries could be actual physical evidence that could be used in court to back up a claim. The forensic examination of the batteries could lead to tracing who the counterfeiter is and who is in the distribution chain. This evidence will be especially important, given you purchased these through *Amazon*. *If one makes accusations about Amazon, one better have evidence in-hand. *



All excellent points that I cannot disagree with. Amazon was very quick to refund my money and based upon the speed I can only say that maybe that represents it's a common problem??? Not sure as Amazon is also very quick to refund my money for many other things as well, they are a great company with world-class customer service IMO.

Still, I would've liked to have actual proof in the hand from Duracell saying for sure whether they were or not because if so, there is a massive and I mean massive problem with legitimate people / companies selling fake Duracell's.


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## xxo (Nov 25, 2017)

Interesting thread! Thanks to all involved. My takeaway is not to buy gray market bulk batteries from China......better to buy USA made in proper retail packaging from reputable USA dealer - way too many fakes coming from China.


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## fmc1 (Nov 25, 2017)

cheaperrooter said:


> Wow, I missed this reply! Excellent, just excellent. Well I guess that does show that most probably it's a counterfeit as the MAH rating is way off! I would like to see a close-up of the number one battery from a couple different angles just to see if it happens to match the ones that I got from Amazon. Or at a minimum, can you look at the pictures that I sent and tell me if your number one battery matches those exactly?



As far as photos, the photos from the web site in the link that I posted are as good or better than any I could take. The photos in the linked article match EXACTLY the fakes that I have, even the box description is a match. Looking at your battery photos it seems to me that you have encountered a different counterfeiter, they don’t quite match up with mine. 
I was trying to make a few points with my post. The first one is of course that a fake Duracell is lower in capacity than a real one, but honestly not as much as I thought it would be. Second is that an eneloop with 50+ cycles is still out performing a brand new Duracell and both of them came from the exact same brick and mortar store.


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## cheaperrooter (Nov 26, 2017)

I guess what makes this so interesting is, it's not like I'm buying these at a flea market, or buying them from a questionable source. I'm buying these from many different, legitimate, high rated sellers at Amazon who are ALL replying back saying that the batteries are NOT counterfeit and that they did indeed get them from a legitimate Duracell source.

That's very intriguing to say the least when every single battery has every single telltale sign of being a fake. Even myself as I said had these for a couple years and I never even noticed myself. It's very bizarre and the only one who will ever be able to answer this question is Duracell themselves and so maybe I need to step up my game and start making some calls to corporate and get a different address to send!

Considering the emails I have sent have been dealt with in a very dismissive manner, who is the say that whoever receives this batteries I'm sending is not dismissing them in the trash as well?


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## MidnightDistortions (Dec 16, 2017)

All I can really say is Amazon is responsible. If you know they are fakes it cant be that hard to prove and sometimes even the best sellers gets duds or fakes without realizing it. Most people probably buy these batteries for their clocks or other low discharge devices that they would seem to be enough for these fake cells. I try to buy from tbrr manufacturer when shopping from Amazon, if they sell a faulty product it'll be their problem.


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## snakebite (Oct 30, 2022)

This might be the reason duracells are such notorious leakers.
Food for thought.


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