# Questions about the Wolf-Eyes Rattlesnake M90-13V/EO-13



## fire-stick (Feb 2, 2007)

OK, I really want the Wolf-Eyes Rattlesnake M90-13V Rechargeable with the EO-13 High Output 700 lumen lamp assembly but first I got a few questions.

Is it always a single click to get this light to come on? Bassically is what I'm asking is, is there any circumstance (short of a dead battery) that would make this light not come on, on the first click.

Exactly how hard are these batteries being pushed. Let's say 100% is when the protection circut kicks them off, how many % would you say these batteries are being ran at.

Also, anyone that has used the EO-13 High output lamp assembly, can you honestly say this lamp does 700 lumens, is it more, is it less?

Hope I made myself clear.

Thanks

Scott


----------



## Owen (Feb 2, 2007)

You can find the specs for the LAs here:
http://www.lumensfactory.com/specifications.htm
The EO-13 is pulling 2.2A, which should be about half the safe maximum of a 2200mAh 18650 cell, and well within the safe range of the popular 14-1500mAh 18500 cells, which I THINK is generally around double the mA capacity....so something like 50-75% depending on the size and capacity of the cell.


----------



## creampuff (Feb 2, 2007)

I won't be able to answer your question regarding how hard the battery is being pushed. I am using the Wolf eyes 168 batteries, and one click works for me. I haven't tried using the AW 18650 because they are not making contact with each other, and I don't want to chance using magnets to maintain contact.

The 300 lumen bulb that comes with the Wolf eyes, is more of a wall of light, and Lumens Factory is certainly more for throw. I am not sure how accurate the 700 lumen rating is. I'll compare it again my MagCharger 85 (1185) and see how it rates, tonight.


----------



## fire-stick (Feb 2, 2007)

Do you think if I bought the Wolf Eyes M90-13V-168R they would let me exchange the AC charger for a DC one.

That's the one that plugs into the car cigg. lighter socket right?

creampuff: What type of finish is on the 700 lumen lamp. 

To the naked eye how big would you say the hotspot is from 3 feet on the 700 lumen lamp.

Beamshot??

Thanks


----------



## DM51 (Feb 2, 2007)

It will work fine on 168A / 18650 (2 x 123 size) and 150A / 18500 (1.5 x 123 size) batteries. You will need a conversion kit (basically an extension tube) depending on which size batteries you want to use. This is because the WE M90 body is sized for 4 x CR123 primaries in its 12v configuration, and you need 3 rechargeables for a 13v LA. 3 x 168A = 6 x 123 in length, so you need the long tube (~2.5 inches). Alternatively, 3 x 150A = 4.5 x 123, so the extension tube for these is only ~1/2 inch long. PTS stock these items.

The discharge rate with 18650s will be ~1C, and with 18500s it would be ~1.5C, which in both cases is well within the safe range. Get good quality protected cells and make sure they are charged to the same voltage each time you install them.

Not sure about the 700 lm figure, or how this actually stands up in a comparison test. It is a bulb lumens rating, so you'd need to knock maybe 35-40% off that to get a true figure. If you go ahead and get this set-up, I'd be interested to hear how LF's EO-13 compares with WE's own-brand 13v LA.


----------



## fire-stick (Feb 2, 2007)

(Minus the 700 lumen LA) this is everything I need right.

They sell it all together.

Wolf Eyes - Wolf Eyes M90-13V-168R Rechargeable Flashlight

1 - Rattlesnake body 
1 - Rattlesnake body extender
3 - Wolf Eyes LRB168A Li-ion batteries
1 - 1210 Tail Cap AC Charger
1 - 13V D36 Advanced Xenon Lamp (shock resistant) 
1 - M90A Tactical Button Switch

http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=1-20-40-6267&tb=4

DM51:Are the batteries that come with it any good or should I go with AW's cells? The reason I ask is because you said "Get good quality protected cells."

Can I assume that this 2.2 amp 700 lumen LA will run an hour on a set of 2200mah LRB-168A's?


----------



## springbok (Feb 2, 2007)

I am glad fire-stick asked these questions...I hgave been pondering buying the same setup!


----------



## creampuff (Feb 2, 2007)

fire-stick said:


> (Minus the 700 lumen LA) this is everything I need right.
> 
> They sell it all together.
> 
> ...



I am at work so I won't be able to answer the beamshot questions. However, I would use the Wolf eyes batteries, as they are the same as the older version of Pila batteries. I emailed Wolf eyes and they mentioned the tail charger won't bring the newer version Pila batteries to full charge. ( I believe WE 168 has 2000 mah, and Pila 600P has 2200 mah). No point in using the more expensive battery when the tail charger won't bring it to a full charge.

The problem with using 18650 batteries, is the + terminals aren't as prominent as the WE and Pilas, so they don't make contact with the neighboring battery. You could use magnets, but you will also have the small risk of a short, unless you wrap the batteries.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 2, 2007)

*Re: EO-13...and the new HO-13*

A couple weeks ago, I posted beam shots of the EO-13 and several other LF and Wolf Eyes lamps; the shots were taken from 3 meters against a bulls-eye target made of concentric circles, so you can easily compare their beam widths. My beam shots appear in a similar thread that has "Lumens Factory" and "beam shots" in the subject line.

Meanwhile, yesterday I received the new Lumens Factory HO-13 (D36, 400 lumens). When powered by three 150A cells, its total output is similar to the 380-lumen D26 (the HO-9) running on two 168A cells, maybe slightly better. Measured edge-to-edge, their beams about equally wide. But there's a difference: The 13's hot spot is stronger (farther-throwing), its corona weaker. The 9's beam is smoother, more even.


----------



## creampuff (Feb 2, 2007)

Whoops, ignore my comment about the Wolf eyes 168A being 2000 mah; I didn't realize the Pila and WE are now both 2200 mah. Hmmm...makes me wonder why several months ago, someone at Wolf eyes said that the tail charger won't be able to bring the Pilas to a full charge.

I guess I will have to email them again.


----------



## DM51 (Feb 2, 2007)

fire-stick said:


> (Minus the 700 lumen LA) this is everything I need right.
> 
> They sell it all together.
> 
> ...


The WE batteries are as good as any. I don’t know anything about the Tail Cap Charger, AC or DC, but if it is sold for this purpose it should be OK. Maybe as Paul says it might not work with some batteries, and it would definitely be a good idea to check as the new WE batteries are higher capacity than the older ones.

Mike @ PTS is very helpful. He could answer your queries re the charger, and whether you can get a DC charger instead of the AC one. I think he can also supply the M90 with the LF EO-13 LA rather than the WE 13v one. But you’ll need another LA eventually anyway, as the bulb life is ~20 hrs.

You won’t get 1 hour runtime out of the 18650s. 2200mah is a nominal rating and it will probably reduce ~20% under this load. Someone else may be able to give you a more accurate figure on that.

Finally, don’t forget your special CPF discount at PTS!! Details of how to get it in this thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=56067


----------



## westfork (Feb 2, 2007)

fire-stick said:


> To the naked eye how big would you say the hotspot is from 3 feet on the 700 lumen lamp.
> 
> Thanks



The central hotspot is about 7.5" and the wider hotspot is about a foot wide at a distance of three feet. When using the more powerful lights, a 100 or even 200 lumen difference in output may not be that noticeable until placed side by side. With this EO-13 it really stands out - Yep that's the incan to grab when you need to see at distance.
Lloyd


----------



## fire-stick (Feb 3, 2007)

So the the charger won't charge up the batteries all the way in the one with the bigger batteries (168a)???


----------



## creampuff (Feb 3, 2007)

fire-stick said:


> So the the charger won't charge up the batteries all the way in the one with the bigger batteries (168a)???


I am going through my MS Outlook files from 1/2 a year ago, and it looks like I was not emailing wolf eyes directly, but tactical-flashlights-store.com. At that time, they recommended against using the tail charger for the newer Pila batteries. However, I find it suspicious that WE makes 2200 mah batteries, and has a charger that would not charge it, so I have emailed them again, to see if this is true. Sorry for the confusion, I didn't realize the current WE 168 batteries are now 2200 mah.


----------



## mdocod (Feb 3, 2007)

you can not use the protection circuitry as a way to determine how hard a cell is being pushed.. AW has purposely fitted his cells with protection circuitry that will actually allow current far above the ideal threshold, this way his cells can light up bulbs with less clicks than standard protection circuits would require. (many protected cells are protected at a current far below what the could handle as well).


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 3, 2007)

The claimed (by Pila) incompatibility of Pila's redesigned cells has nothing to do with their marginally improved capacity. It has to do with the way the cells are designed.

DealExtreme is selling 2400mAh protected cells by Ultrafire. And the price is dirt-cheap: $6.75. These are the first 2400mAh protected 18650s on the market. And they're longer than unprotected 18650s, making them more compatible with 168As and 600Ps.

Their protection circuit is set to 1.5C. While this is more conservative than the 2C threshold used by Wolf Eyes and AW (and, I think, Pila), it is probably sufficient to light up a 2.x-amp lamp assembly on one click.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 3, 2007)

creampuff said:


> I am going through my MS Outlook files from 1/2 a year ago, and it looks like I was not emailing wolf eyes directly, but tactical-flashlights-store.com.


Though I can no longer find the link, Wolf Eyes of Canada used to link to Tactical Flashlight Store in Quebec. I'm fairly sure that the latter is the manufacturer's retail outlet.


----------



## fire-stick (Feb 3, 2007)

Shouldn't a reasonably smart li-ion charger be able to charger different capacity batteries?


----------



## creampuff (Feb 4, 2007)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> The claimed (by Pila) incompatibility of Pila's redesigned cells has nothing to do with their marginally improved capacity. It has to do with the way the cells are designed.
> 
> 
> Their protection circuit is set to 1.5C. While this is more conservative than the 2C threshold used by Wolf Eyes and AW (and, I think, Pila), it is probably sufficient to light up a 2.x-amp lamp assembly on one click.


 
Thanks, that would make more sense. I have opened up a ticket with Tactical Outlet; I'll post their response when I receive it.


----------



## Effulgence (Feb 5, 2007)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> The claimed (by Pila) incompatibility of Pila's redesigned cells has nothing to do with their marginally improved capacity. It has to do with the way the cells are designed.
> 
> DealExtreme is selling 2400mAh protected cells by Ultrafire. And the price is dirt-cheap: $6.75. These are the first 2400mAh protected 18650s on the market. And they're longer than unprotected 18650s, making them more compatible with 168As and 600Ps.
> 
> Their protection circuit is set to 1.5C. While this is more conservative than the 2C threshold used by Wolf Eyes and AW (and, I think, Pila), it is probably sufficient to light up a 2.x-amp lamp assembly on one click.



Wow, that is dirt cheap. I see they are also selling the same charger as the one AW is selling minus the battery contacts for the 123s. Have you tried this battery with the M90 EO-13 setup? One click startup? Thanks.


----------

