# Mag 1D CBT-90 UT



## ma_sha1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Inspired by Olight SR95 UT, I built a FM3X UT using P-bin CBT-90 (Even better than SBT-90 used in SR-95 UT, because that the CBT-90 is basically SBT-90 that came on on copper star).
I really love the FM3X UT, so I am going to try to make it happen on Mag 1D platform, targeting high lux with 3 modes. The closest light to this was a DIY Cut Mag 1D SST-90 I made while back,
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?273748-DIY-Cut-Mag-1-5D-SST-90-2000-Lumen-Rebel-Mag-Deep-SMO-gt-50-000-lux-1-meter!! 
In this build, I am for various improvements: Smaller host, seamless cut, longer throw and 3 mode to make it more useful…
*
Part I. Making of the host*


Cutting the 3D Digital Camo mag tube







Bore the tube with a 35mm hole saw to 35mm






Bore out the 1D tail section to very thin






Cut the thread section of Mag body & grind the wall down to very thin






Insert the thread piece into the Mag shorty tail, apply JB weld at the internal groove junction.






Thread in the tail cap part way & push the thread all the way in, 
then polish the end, until it looks like this:






The tail will look identical to OEM






Including the original OEM anodized threads






Finished host, Group photo of compact power houses












Now, moving on to modding Bright Lumens SST-90 heat sink.

Drill down the center post






Grind down the rim of post as well






Grind down the rim. I’ll be using using the heat sink backwards 






Drill a dimple in the center of the rear to get rid of the center residue that’s raised slightly






Moving on modding the CBT-90

This is a beautiful Led, the cover glass over the die is actually AR coated. Beefy copper heat sink is just a bit too big for mag, need some operation.






Cutting it with a cutting wheel took solid 2 hrs, because it need to be cooled down constantly. 






Fits perfect in the rear of the heatsink, the well meant for driver circuit






For soldering the led, I chose 20AWG teflon wire. I also have 18AWG but that’s way too hard to work with, look how much thicker it compare to the 20G (Orange & Brown).






Did a quick test making sure the led is still working






Spread the arctic Silver, make sure to center the die perfectly & press down with the Mag Rebel SMO reflector (Quick focus stem was cut-off)





*

To be continued... *


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Reserved..


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## LilKevin715 (Aug 5, 2012)

Lookin good so far!:thumbsup: What is the color temp of the emitter? Driver?


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 5, 2012)

Thanks!

This is 6500K Cool White, I just built a FM3X UT using the same CBT-90 & Really like the tint, snow white, no green or blue or yellow. 

The Drive Solution is not sure bet yet, but here is what's I've got so far:
*
Switch & Driver:*

It’s a pity that after 3 years, there is still no 9A driver for sale with modes. there is one CPFer selling a 9A driver but only one mode. There are a bunch of SST-90 drivers from various stores, but none of them are true 9A. 


In this mod, I am exploring the use of AW 3 level Mag D incan driver. The light will be powered by 4AA, which would give 8.5A with Eneloops 2000 & probably over 10A using Elite 2000 AA. I've got both, will compare them when done.


The AW incan driver is PWM, able to handle over 10Amp, combined with direct drive 4AA, I could possibly make my ideal hand held powerhouse.


There were some folks tried using AW incan driver on led, some worked & some didn’t. Some says it need 2 cells etc. I am not sure if this is going to work, but I don’t have alternative methods either. So here it goes:

Remove the Incan socket & supporting poles from AW Incan Driver/Switch combo:






The Incan driver does not label +/-, it’s necessary to test out which is which for led use.
Also, figure out how does it change modes. Looks like 4.19V, 4.18V & 4.09V for the 3 levels (Although they are PMW, there still a small difference in voltage as shown). Also, to turn it off, one needs to press & hold the button, otherwise it’ll just keep switching modes.

I am guessing that this is an electronic switch?






__________________


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## jmpaul320 (Aug 5, 2012)

Excellent! If i had the tools I would totally go for this build!


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## jmpaul320 (Aug 5, 2012)

lol u posted another update while i was posting... have you tried the DW 9a buck driver? (maybe this was the "only" 9a driver done by a cpf member you are in fact refering to) 

i am using one set to 9a, potted to heatsink to run a sst-90... it works great with 3x 26650 or 32650


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## The_Driver (Aug 5, 2012)




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## ma_sha1 (Aug 5, 2012)

The_Driver said:


>



*OK, here comes* *The last steps:*
Soldered up the switch to the led, put the switch & heat sink assembly in.

Applied Arctic Silver 5 for optimal heat transfer from heat sink to mag body.

Set the switch screw & locked it in place. Tested conductivity from switch body to flash light tail. 

What else is there left to do? Put 4AA into FM battery holder & turn it on, right?

Well, it didn't happen that way, I now have a bad news & a good news.

*First, the bad news:*

The FM battery holder I just got is missing a positive brass tab, 
See the picture, the one next to the letter "P" is blank












*Now, the good news.* 
I put a 26650 in there just to test the AW Incan Driver, It works! The 3 mode PMW switched the led modes perfectly, even the soft start works, it ramps up the brightness in a couple seconds. 

This means that it'll def. work with the 4AA, when I get the FM battery holder fixed, I'll finally have luminex big chip led driven to 10 Amp with 3 modes


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## jmpaul320 (Aug 6, 2012)

Be careful you don't burn down your house with 10a lol


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 6, 2012)

10A is no biggie, I used to shock the SST-90 to over 15 Amp in order to reduce their Vf.,
After shock therapy, single IMR can drive it over 5A. Before, it's usually 3.5A-4A when assembled into a flashlight. 

Two Lifepo4 26650 Direct Drive SST-90:






I tore apart the FM battery holder this morning, I see what the problem is. The Battery holder's
first positive tab is a "press-in" piece, not secured by solder or a hard connection. 

I am glad that mine fell off, as this is not a good idea when pushing 10Amp current through. It looks like the weakest link to this otherwise very well engineered battery carrier. 

I should be able to make a tab that screw in between the nut & pole hidden in the charger port, then drag a thin pad into the P position through the white material. That'll give me the ultimate security to handle 10A current & ensure that the positive tab will never fall off again.


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## Gunner12 (Aug 6, 2012)

Really nice mod! The CBT should be able to handle higher current due to the connection to the copper base. It'll be cool to see it at the max rated 13.5 amp.


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## jmpaul320 (Aug 6, 2012)

Gunner12 said:


> Really nice mod! The CBT should be able to handle higher current due to the connection to the copper base. It'll be cool to see it at the max rated 13.5 amp.



Overdrive it to 15 :rock:


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 6, 2012)

jmpaul320 said:


> Overdrive it to 15 :rock:



The AW incan driver is PWM at 100%, 70%, 30% out put, a 15A version will be about 5Amp on low, LOL.
It'll no doubt demand a bigger host than my mag 1D here.


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## vestureofblood (Aug 6, 2012)

I always like to see your new threads ma_sha1. There is always plenty of pictures and creativity. Thanks for sharing again.


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## jmpaul320 (Aug 7, 2012)

ma_sha1 said:


> a 15A version will be about 5Amp on low, LOL.



Good form :rock:


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 7, 2012)

vestureofblood said:


> I always like to see your new threads ma_sha1. There is always plenty of pictures and creativity. Thanks for sharing again.



Thanks Buddy, that's very kind of you. 

Update:

I have fixed the FM battery holder, but not without further complications, will have pictures soon....


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## Walterk (Aug 7, 2012)

Nice led ! 
And great skills with tools given.
What cd/mm2 are you aiming at from the die?


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## Epsilon (Aug 7, 2012)

Like the build a lot! Nice led, good idea with the threads, good driver idea, together making a very usable light!

Does the led focus well with the magrebel reflector?


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 7, 2012)

Walterk said:


> Nice led !
> And great skills with tools given.
> What cd/mm2 are you aiming at from the die?



Don't know about the cd/mm2, but I do have a lux target in mind. 

Here are 2 reference lights I had, both were with SST-90 & Deep Rebel SMO. 
My SST-90 4XAA Eneloop Mag 1D measured 8.35Amp, 42K lux
Lambda Vara2000 SST-90 4x5000mah Nimh D cells: 9.87Amp, 46K lux. 

CBT-90 should give about 40% lux gain over SST-90 driven to same amp, If I can get 8.35Amp, It should be close to 60K lux. 
However, because I didn't do "high current (15-18Amp) shock to the led to reduce Vf, it may not get to 8.35 Amp level right away. 
But the SST-90 Vf will drop over time, the Amp will go up & the light will get even brighter with use. 



Epsilon said:


> Like the build a lot! Nice led, good idea with the threads, good driver idea, together making a very usable light!
> Does the led focus well with the magrebel reflector?



This is a very good questions. Depends on how you define "focus well". If it's for throw, then yes, Deep Rebel SMO should give the highest lux for this big die on any reflector put into mag head.

However, it's not w/o flaws. The SST-90 big die in Rebel SMO has always has a soft core or faint donut in its hot spot. 
I've made quite a few SST-90/Rebel SMO lights back in the day that SST-90 just came out, I could never get away from that.

I was hoping that the The CBT-90 would not have a donut because the reduced apparent die size, but the reality is, it still does.
just like every Mag Rebel SMO SST-90 combo, the faint donut is still there. 

I don't know if there are better mag reflectors out there now, I would be interested in trying out new reflector candidates.
I know it's possible. As the FM3X UT I just made (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?341778-FM3X-UT-with-CBT-90-amp-Home-made-Elephant) has a perfect hot spot, solidly filled with smooth corona, like a McGizmo PDS, except 100x brighter.
That was DX 3" SMO.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 7, 2012)

*
Now, Finishing up fixing the FM Battery Holder:*

I made a copper washer with a tail, to be screwed under a nut the goes on the pole.
Unfortunately, the nut was originally glued & has crazy glue residue in the hole. I was not able to screw it on easy, after using excessive force, I broke that pole off & the nut won’t be able to go back-on.





The last fix. I drilled & tap a hole in the metal rod & used a small screw to secure the copper positive connection tab instead.




All these work just to add this little copper pad:




Voltage with 4xEneloop: 5.5V. 6.5A tail cap current.
Freshly charged up gets 6.62V 7.0Amp tail cap current




Voltage with 4xElite 2000: 5.2V 6.0A.
Elite 2000 supposed to be higher volt under load, in turn deliver higher amp than Eneloop.
This is a real disappointment. The Elite lasted about 5 min & died off. I think the batteries are shot, although they are freshly ordered.




*
Beam shot vs. my Super Performing SR-51, which scored 58K lux (much higher than reported lux from older review lights). camera on manual. 1/10 sec. exposure 35 feet to the wall.*
Had to drill open the reflector hole a bit more to lower it for better focus.




Olight SR51 super performer: peak turn on -58K lux




Mag 1D CBT-90 UT peak turn on: -55Klux @ 7Amp




The tint on the US is snow white, not blue as seen in the Photo
The tint of SR51 is more green than the photo
The two lights looks similar in brightness, but I like the UT tint much better than the SR51


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## The_Driver (Aug 8, 2012)

Very nice ma_sha, like always . If only people knew what can be done with 4 simple aa batteries .

I'm still waiting for you to build a light that will beat my Varapower Turbo on all accounts: lumens, throw, size, etc.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 8, 2012)

The_Driver said:


> I'm still waiting for you to build a light that will beat my Varapower Turbo on all accounts: lumens, throw, size, etc.



It's possible to beat VB turbo with smaller size, but still will need at least 2D + turbo head. 

Direct drive CBT-90 on 2x Lifepo4 D cells will get you up to 15 Amps.
combine that with AW 3 level Incan driver (should be able to handle 15Amps) and DX 3" reflector will take down VP turbo in a smaller size.

However, that size is still bigger than what I am interested in.
The FM3X+3x18650 shorty size is as big as I can enjoy at the moment.


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## jmpaul320 (Aug 8, 2012)

Masha I also am disappointed in the elites. I have 16 in my mag428 and after cycling them twice in my bc700 they lasted about 6 minutes before dimming. I should be getting about 11 to 12 mins in theory with no voltage sag. They do supply the needed 10 plus amps required but voltage drops faster than I had hoped. Perhaps lifepo would be better but I would need 6 to 7 cells in a 4d host.

Back on topic. Are there any aa cells out there that would hold up better?

Edit... that 2d cbt90 build sounds tempting.... and I already have a host


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 8, 2012)

The good old Eneloop 2000mah is still the best


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## The_Driver (Aug 8, 2012)

ma_sha1 said:


> It's possible to beat VB turbo with smaller size, but still will need at least 2D + turbo head. Direct drive CBT-90 on 2x Lifepo4 D cells will get you up to 15 Amps.combine that with AW 3 level Incan driver (should be able to handle 15Amps) and DX 3" reflector will take down VP turbo in a smaller size.However, that size is still bigger than what I am interested in. The FM3X+3x18650 shorty size is as big as I can enjoy at the moment.


Hmm I'm not sure about everything you said.Do the LifePO4s sag that much? When you put 4 D cells in the Varapower you also get 15A (up to 18 initially). If you really want to beat it you need the Batteries you mentioned, but also a much better reflector. It needs to be optimized for leds and have a better coating. You would also definitely need to solder the led onto the copper heatsink, no star.


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## jmpaul320 (Aug 8, 2012)

ma_sha1 said:


> The good old Eneloop 2000mah is still the best



How do they fare above 10a?


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## Epsilon (Aug 8, 2012)

The_Driver said:


> Hmm I'm not sure about everything you said.Do the LifePO4s sag that much? When you put 4 D cells in the Varapower you also get 15A (up to 18 initially). If you really want to beat it you need the Batteries you mentioned, but also a much better reflector. It needs to be optimized for leds and have a better coating. You would also definitely need to solder the led onto the copper heatsink, no star.


The CBT-90 is allready mounted directly on a thick and large copper PCB, so no need to update that.

Which reflectors do you use for you LED builds and where do you get them? I'm still looking for decent reflectors for larger builds, but the only dealer I know is DX .


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## The_Driver (Aug 8, 2012)

Epsilon said:


> The CBT-90 is allready mounted directly on a thick and large copper PCB, so no need to update that.
> 
> Which reflectors do you use for you LED builds and where do you get them? I'm still looking for decent reflectors for larger builds, but the only dealer I know is DX .



If you want every last lumen than the copper pcb from luminus is just too small. The heatsink in the Varapower is several cm long.

I don't do any builds so I don't have any reflectors . I just have my VPT with the DX reflector.


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## Epsilon (Aug 8, 2012)

The board of the cbt needs to be mounted to a larger heatsink ofcours, but the most crucial part is already done: a good bond to a thick enough heatspreader. Hard to beat in my opinion .


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## bshanahan14rulz (Aug 9, 2012)

Don't forget, cbt-90 is different from sst-90. No thermal pad and solder junction to transfer heat to the "star." Instead, the LED die is mounted to the "star" directly from the factory. The sst-90 has to transfer heat through its substrate to its thermal pad, which then is soldered to the thermal pad of a star, which is separated from the metal core with insulating layer. Even if you solder it directly to a heatsink, the heat still has to go through the substrate of the LED package, and through a solder joint, before it gets to the heatspreader/heatsink. 

Think of the cbt package as current day processors. You don't see the actual chip anymore. Instead, they bond a heatspreader to the chip to quickly wick heat away from the chip. This integrated heat spreader is then attached to whatever thermal exchanger you are using, finned heatsink, water block, etc.

Remember how older, or less beefy processors were just a shiny silicon chip's backside showing? That would be like if we could buy bare LED dice and mount them to heatsinks ourselves.


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## The_Driver (Aug 9, 2012)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> Don't forget, cbt-90 is different from sst-90. No thermal pad and solder junction to transfer heat to the "star." Instead, the LED die is mounted to the "star" directly from the factory. The sst-90 has to transfer heat through its substrate to its thermal pad, which then is soldered to the thermal pad of a star, which is separated from the metal core with insulating layer. Even if you solder it directly to a heatsink, the heat still has to go through the substrate of the LED package, and through a solder joint, before it gets to the heatspreader/heatsink.
> 
> Think of the cbt package as current day processors. You don't see the actual chip anymore. Instead, they bond a heatspreader to the chip to quickly wick heat away from the chip. This integrated heat spreader is then attached to whatever thermal exchanger you are using, finned heatsink, water block, etc.
> 
> Remember how older, or less beefy processors were just a shiny silicon chip's backside showing? That would be like if we could buy bare LED dice and mount them to heatsinks ourselves.



You might be right, but I still think the VPT will win in the long run (lets after 5 or 10min at full blast) because the copper pcb of the cbt-90 will be soaked up with heat rather quickly. You would need to solder the pcb to a copper heatsink for similar/better performance. What we need is numbers, to proove our theories .


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## Epsilon (Aug 9, 2012)

You always need to add enough thermal capacity, regardless of the thermal transfer method. Don't forget that the host will be the majority of this thermal capacity.

Btw, did you know that aluminium has 3 times the thermal capacity of copper by weight? Only because copper weighs about 4 times as much as aluminium it wins on that front.

Sorry ma_sha, will stop now and wait for updates of this very usefull build


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## The_Driver (Aug 9, 2012)

Epsilon said:


> You always need to add enough thermal capacity, regardless of the thermal transfer method. Don't forget that the host will be the majority of this thermal capacity.
> 
> Btw, did you know that aluminium has 3 times the thermal capacity of copper by weight? Only because copper weighs about 4 times as much as aluminium it wins on that front.
> 
> Sorry ma_sha, will stop now and wait for updates of this very usefull build



Yes I do, but it's a mott point since flashlights are supposed to be a small as possible.

And I agree, this thread is not about us, but about ma_sha1s great creations


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 9, 2012)

How about we rally together & sing "Kum-ba-ya" under the Swan blaster?

Currently at 42 million cps, it's about the length of VP turbo, just fatter, will need 200 de-domed VPT together to make-up the lux 

I am actually thinking about selling this mag to fund a new lamp, 260W/0.8 mm arc, yum...


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## jmpaul320 (Aug 9, 2012)

if you are selling the cbt90 mag, please make sure colonel buys it... my pocket book cant afford seeing a fs: cbt90 thread right now!

lol.


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## The_Driver (Aug 10, 2012)

Ok ma_sha,
I give up :sigh:
but my light still has 36 modes 

Why do you need a new lamp? Shouldn't it last for like 2000 hours?

Why has your light not beaten the Maxablaster yet?


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 10, 2012)

The_Driver said:


> Why do you need a new lamp? Shouldn't it last for like 2000 hours?
> Why has your light not beaten the Maxablaster yet?



I am only 2 hours into the 3000 hr rated life, but Osaram comes up with a new PVIP lamp with 20% shorter arc, a 20% gain in surface brightness. 

I am having a hard time focusing the lamp precisely, a wide swing gets me anywhere between 38-43 million cps. The 3 point focus mechanism I copied from RA is a pain in the butt to use when precision focusing is needed.

Theory numbers always come short in front of the cruel reality of lux measurements, looks like a new 0.8mm arc lamp is necessary for swan blaster to beat maxa blaster in throw. 

I need to build a new lamp module but still cringing at the thought of doing it again.


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## download (Aug 10, 2012)

Really enjoyable to watch your mod, great job! :thumbsup:


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 10, 2012)

Thanks Download!

love the multi led 7135 wiring method of yours!


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## ipso (May 3, 2013)

great job! :twothumbs


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