# 4Sevens announces closure



## jon_slider (Dec 1, 2017)




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## Tachead (Dec 1, 2017)

This doesn't surprise me really. Guesses on who is buying them out? Olight?


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## hiuintahs (Dec 1, 2017)

I imagine it's a tough business.........lots of competition. He rode the wave early on. I'm sure he's making the best economic choice for him and his family. I met David once. He's a nice guy. I wish him the best.


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## holygeez03 (Dec 1, 2017)

When I bought my Quark Tactical 2xAA Neutral circa 2010, I thought it would be the first of many 4Sevens lights... I later converted it into 1x14500 and I still use it occasionally... but I never bought a single other 47s light since there design and features went the opposite way of my tastes. 

To this day though, I have never found a valid replacement for my Quark Tactical.


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## weez82 (Dec 1, 2017)

Take on the Baton? that was a nice hint . Sad to see Foursevens go


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## jon_slider (Dec 1, 2017)

Tachead said:


> Guesses on who is buying them out? Olight?



olightstore.com is my guess, they are only 13 miles apart, not that distance matters... 
afaik 47s lights are already made by Olight. No idea if they plan to continue any of the 47s product l line..
there are big sales at 47s.. 70% off on the new smart Quark

And for the Quark Lego Lovers, the Quark TurboHead is only $15 (Im not affiliated, just reporting)



Woods Walker said:


>



FOURSEVENS
2774 Cobb Pkwy NW
Ste 109-377
Kennesaw, GA 30152

Olight USA
2150 NW Pkwy SE
Ste. M
Marietta, GA 30067


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## bykfixer (Dec 1, 2017)

Chauncey will be devastated....


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## Nichia! (Dec 1, 2017)

This is sad very sad to me.


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## egginator1 (Dec 1, 2017)

That’s too bad. How was it announced?


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## rayman (Dec 1, 2017)

Sad indeed. Foursevens was my first shop I bought flashlight stuff from when he didn't have his own flashlights yet.

I wish you and all the rest of the company best luck ;-).


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## jon_slider (Dec 1, 2017)

weez82 said:


> Take on the Baton? that was a nice hint .



Listen closely
Take-on "The Baton" as good as This Guy.

"Carry on the 47s legacy" that makes it sound like David is just tired of butting heads with Olight, and a non Olight person is buying 47s.. Imo Olight is stubborn, David is innovative and market savvy… he sits on Olights board of directors.. probably frustrating..

The 47s cr123 twisty production volume is tiny compared to TheBaton
David just made 500 each of the 2 final Stainless twisties
Olight made 10,000 of each of the 6 versions of the Copper and Ti SMini Batons

The TiTwisties are being reported as gritty.. Imo Twisty Ti is a poor combo.. where the New 47s could capture unique market with the Mk II Imo, would be by turning it into a compact tail clicky.. I'm not a fan of sideswitches, nor TiTwisties. So I would “Pass” on TheBaton, if a MK II size CR123 tail clicky was an option.. even if its electronic like TheBatonSwitch…

And then theres the Bluetooth Quarks to push forward.. and its clear to me Olight is not going there.. so maybe we will see another American buying a company that contracts for Chinese made lights. Thats very Apple like, American company, outsourcing manufacturing to China



egginator1 said:


> How was it announced?



click the red triangle in the middle of post #1


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## LeanBurn (Dec 1, 2017)

Looking at the 47's store they have very little left in stock.

I have a SS light (different brand) and it is indeed a robust finish. I EDC for over a year and it is still shiny as new.


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## Swordforthelord (Dec 1, 2017)

I was afraid this was coming; they've been clearancing inventory for weeks now. It's a shame to see them go; they've always been one of the best.


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## jon_slider (Dec 1, 2017)

LeanBurn said:


> I have a SS light (different brand) and it is indeed a robust finish. I EDC for over a year and it is still shiny as new.



now you can have a Stainless Mini or a Stainless Mini Turbo






the 47s logo on those lights looks like an O to me


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## Woods Walker (Dec 1, 2017)

Thanks Dave for all the great gear. 











I am saddened by this news. 

I am not surprised as was thinking the very thing over the last few weeks. Too many items at deep discount on Foursevens and through other avenues before the announcement. Some of the new offering were/are good but wished for things that couldn't be. In fact I am uploading a review of the Mini Mk II on Youtube right now. The old school Quarks are fantastic tools. I was skeptical of the entire moonlight thing before actually trying one out. 4/7 Tactical UI is one of my favorites. But IMHO the company had one arm tied behind it's back. It would be cool if somehow the mystery person was PK. I bet there are well extablished ties to Olight as well.

Has anyone told Chauncey.....


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## TCW 60 (Dec 1, 2017)

Oh no, I remember on the old times, as we are awaiting the new lights of another brand, David deals with. The time was always before christmas and we from oversea are now reading what good lights in the US were delivered. The tests on CPF are good and we are awaiting the flashlights. So now the global times are killing the innovating guys with there shops. My 4/7 Q mini cr 2 is my edc light since years. Heads up David


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## bykfixer (Dec 1, 2017)

Doesn't David own Olight?
(Edit)




Answered my own question. (End edit)

I sensed he just wants to venture a different direction... possibly a different project involving new ideas and new technology. A very smart man who has made some pretty smart decisions over time so I'm prrrrrretty sure we'll see something amazing in time. 

Bought a pair of PK Knights while there's still some left. 50% off, $0 shipping... you betcha!!


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## holygeez03 (Dec 1, 2017)

Do any of the clearance lights have a neutral/warm or high CRI emitter option? (sorry, I had to take the opportunity one last time)


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## pc_light (Dec 1, 2017)

Sad news indeed.

Dave's always been a professional and a pleasure to deal with him. In addition to his early Preon which I use regularly, I still have an old L0P-SE that I got from Dave over a decade ago which was even before he had his own brand. Not to mention the many Mini's and Atoms' I've enjoyed through the years.


Best wishes Dave, for your next endeavor.:thanks:


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## InvisibleFrodo (Dec 1, 2017)

Sad! The Atom AO CPF 15th anniversary edition with the 92 CRI Nichia is basically a perfect light. I wouldn't be surprised if it stays the smallest AAA light I own forever. And the illumn exclusive Preon P2s also running 92 CRI Nichia LEDs are really great lights.
What always stopped me from buying more of their lights was a lack of high CRI options and no tint options, which can be very hard to come by.
I understand back in the day they had options for warm tinted variants. Unfortunately I missed out on the timing, and by the time I found out about the warm tinted Preons, they were unavailable and never came back. I've wanted one ever since.


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## CarpentryHero (Dec 1, 2017)

End of an era, I really like 4sevens. Hope who ever takes over makes something out of what he gets


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## BVH (Dec 1, 2017)

Yes, this is sad. Just had to buy my last item from the 4Sevens store - the Stainless Mini Turbo MKII, even though I don't need it as my Alum version is just fine.


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## MadAmos (Dec 1, 2017)

BVH said:


> Yes, this is sad. Just had to buy my last item from the 4Sevens store - the Stainless Mini Turbo MKII, even though I don't need it as my Alum version is just fine.



I just did the same, 4 sevens was a big influence in my flashahaulism and will be remembered.

I have a titanium 1st gen Preon 2 that has been carried/ used since it came out. I will hope it lasts for many more years.


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## BVH (Dec 1, 2017)

Ever since the Mini123 was introduced, I've not found anything to replace it for my EDC until I got a Vinh modded Mini Turbo a few months ago. How long is that - maybe 5-7 years?


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## kreisl (Dec 1, 2017)

My Quark Tactical had the best UI.
Other aspects of the light were soso.
I had to let it go because of those other aspects.
Sad.


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## SCEMan (Dec 1, 2017)

A sad end... Still my most used lights for many years.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 1, 2017)

DAVID CHOW - Man knows how to make an exit. :candle: 

~ Cg


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## royjohnson77 (Dec 1, 2017)

Very sad to see him go and leave the flashlight industry. He was the one who created Fenix Store and bring Fenixlight to the market. 

I was surprised the relationship with Olight lasted this long, they were actually competitors with each other.

Olight is successful and they do not need the help of David Chow any longer. So sad. 

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

You will be missed.


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## Burgess (Dec 1, 2017)

Sad news, indeed !


I have many flashlights,
but my 47's AA Quarks (both T and P models)
are certainly my FAVORITES !


They have served me well 
since the day(s) I got 'em.

And I'm sure they will continue
to do so, until the day I die.


Thank you, David, for EVERYTHING !

Best of Luck (and health)
to you, and your loved ones.


-- Burgess


BTW --

Aren't you * EVER * gonna' tell us
what " 47's " really means ? ? ?
< wink >


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## Lou Minescence (Dec 1, 2017)

I feel as if we have had another death in the family. Hopefully David is just burnt out and is looking for something new. 
I hope you make some money on the sale of the business. Best of luck Mr David Chow.


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## Woods Walker (Dec 1, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> And for the Quark Lego Lovers......



That Quark Tactical is normally setup like this.






For a light running 2XCR123 and being so UL it can still party in 2017.






IMHO the tactical UI was the high point of 4/7. Well some would say it was the Mini 1xCR123 which unless mistaken (long time ago so could be wrong) was the first production light to use the XP-G but I say it's the Tactical Quarks. So natural and easy to use. It's why I liked the Fenix TK20 and Malkoff MD2 however the Quark could be programmed. It was the best, for me anyways.


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## ZMZ67 (Dec 1, 2017)

CarpentryHero said:


> End of an era, I really like 4sevens. Hope who ever takes over makes something out of what he gets



Indeed! Where would I be without David's contributions? From Fenix and Nitecore early on to his own brand 4Sevens. Not to mention what he may have influenced at Olight. There is a PK Knight residing in my pocket right now as I discovered this thread! Best of luck to David in his future endeavors and thanks for all the lights!


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## edpmis02 (Dec 1, 2017)

My first premium light was a Fenix (L0D) "Christmas" edition then got a L2D before David started 4Sevens.

I loved the original batch of Quarks, and I went crazy buying clearance items during the "rebranding" sale. I must have picked up 7 models to LEGO together with different emitters, tints, interfaces, battery tubes, and the discovery of "moonlight" mode... (I have a few lights that I never used). I love my low voltage turbo head on a single AA body. I never got into the other lights that were sold. I did get a Preon 2 with a Nichia 219 from another site, but was I was always frustrated about not having 18650 tubes for the Quark line and a push back about neutral/warm tints not selling well. Each new model seemed to have some type of deal breaker for me or just too high a price. I lost interest in the brand since it seemed to be chasing another demographic. 

My early years were focused around Davids efforts.. Friends just grow apart, and I wish David all the best.


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## richbuff (Dec 2, 2017)

The Four Sevens MMU-X3 was my first real flashlight. I still have it, the beam profile is still unsurpassed. It will always occupy a lofty position in the pantheon of true classic lights. 

I am sure that David will find much happiness and success in all his future endeavors. 

Many thank yous to a leading light!


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## campingnut (Dec 2, 2017)

I just ordered one more Quark...the smart is on sale for $19. I also ordered 2 more deep carry clips for my other quarks just in case...I’m going to miss them, always a solid light.


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## Eric242 (Dec 2, 2017)

Tachead said:


> This doesn't surprise me really. Guesses on who is buying them out? Olight?


The way he talks about "*this guy*" makes me think it could be someone else since I wouldn´t talk like that _"I think you will all like the guy, he is pretty awsome, there couldn´t be anyone else who could take on the baton as good as this guy"_ about olight as a company. Maybe *PK*? But we´ll know in a few weeks.

Eric


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## gunga (Dec 2, 2017)

It was mentioned on Facebook. It's not olight. Otherwise no new information.


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## LogicalBeard (Dec 2, 2017)

Lou Minescence said:


> I feel as if we have had another death in the family. Hopefully David is just burnt out and is looking for something new.
> I hope you make some money on the sale of the business. Best of luck Mr David Chow.



I would echo those sentiments. Some of my favorite flashlights have been 47's including one of the best edc lights, my Mini MK II copper.


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## aginthelaw (Dec 2, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Chauncey will be devastated....



Why? He’s involved in insider trading! Why else was he stocking up all that titanium?!?! He’s just become a rich man, like selling the artists’ work after his demise [emoji106]


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## Brightfan (Dec 2, 2017)

Got a mini ML, is my only 47 light, is a cool light but after I bought it I was always reluctant to buy another one, bought an Olight S10r and a S1 mini raw cu, the 47 does not have the build quality am sorry to say, the olights are much more robust. Aluminium tube on the mini ml is really thin, anodising has chipped etc.
i know there are a lot of 47 fans out there, looks like the new minis were very popular, dont think the smart light interface was a very good idea either, respect for trying to be innovators but Im not sure that flashlight buyers like the fact that this smart interface is really just an element (not really needed) that would likely just go wrong at some point. People seem to like lights with simple interfaces, efficient LED's, and mostly robustness.
maybe 47s thought the smart lights were going to be the silver bullet for their business but alas was not.


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## warpdrive (Dec 2, 2017)

Eric242 said:


> The way he talks about "*this guy*" makes me think it could be someone else since I wouldn´t talk like that _"I think you will all like the guy, he is pretty awsome, there couldn´t be anyone else who could take on the baton as good as this guy"_ about olight as a company. Maybe *PK*? But we´ll know in a few weeks.
> 
> Eric



yes It might be reading way too much into his wording but “taking on the baton” almost reads “this guy will continue the fight against Olight” Usually you just pass the baton or take the baton

Anyway, it would seem olight is the most probable suitor but let’s hope there is a nice surprise in store.

I bought a Fenix P1 special edition way back when, and actually bought nothing since then. Foursevens actually had a run of flashlights that sold in our Canadian MEC (it’s like REI) stores and it was nice to see his lights in B&M stores. 

Then when he was clearing out the special edition Ti, and Cu flashlights, I bought two Mini IIs.


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## bykfixer (Dec 2, 2017)

Very doubtful PK is the "this guy". 

PK owns a consulting company that designs lighting products for a large supplier, so it may be the owner of PK's client perhaps. But I have it on good authority that between his consultant business and PK Design Lab he has a lot on his plate already.

Now if it is his client there will likely be PK influence on future products from foursevens.


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## flatline (Dec 2, 2017)

My first quality light was a neutral Quark AA. It's still my most used nightstand light.

--flatline


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## reppans (Dec 2, 2017)

Very sorry to hear this news, although the writing was on the wall. A Quark was my first good flashlight and they have always been my favorites with an ideal-for-me combination of mode spacing, regulation, efficiency, voltage versatility, Lego-ability, and reliability - not to mention David/FourSevens being honest, stand-up folks with great CS. Bought dozens of lights trying to match/beat my Quarks for my unique needs, but have been mostly unsuccessful/disappointed, although the HDS comes close. After figuring out how to program them, the 1st gen Quark Clicks have become my favorite iteration of the line and I have programmed my HDS and QC to the same modes and very similar UIs - haven't bothered with trying anything new since then (past year or two?), just stocked up on old Quarks.

Thank you David for 'showing me the light' and best wishes on your new endeavors. Hope your successor can fill your large shoes and continue the FourSevens legacy.


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## fordcappy (Dec 2, 2017)

I was a dealer for a time and a long time fan finding you through nutnfancy. All the best to David, he showed what can be done with heart and passion.


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## saypat (Dec 2, 2017)

fortunate to pick up a couple of Preon P1s on sale for $12/ea a while back. At a good price of $20 now. Hoping the P2s go on sale as well.


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Dec 2, 2017)

I have an amazing collection of FourSeven's lights(I think if Chance & I had a face off it would be very close). I love their lights-in my humble opinion their Quark Tactical UI is one of the most versatile without needing to program it specifically. I recently picked up a few more CR2 Quarks as well(still crying I sold my Ti CR2). I also have the coveted 4 Seven's 18650 body tube as well. In addition to their excellent products, I believe David defined the standard for customer service. Most of my customer service calls were not related to any kind of failure, more often I was making changes and screwed something up(hey TJ, I fingerprinted the reflector on my S-12 Maelstrom, got another one? He would actually personally go look to find one if they were no longer carried). 
To David Chow and all the family at Four Sevens: I wish you the best of successes in whatever your new ventures are. May you find peace, success and joy in all you do. Thanks for brightening my night, both in actuality and metaphorically. You will be missed, but I know my lights will still be shining for decades to come...


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## photo2000a (Dec 3, 2017)

Bought a few of there lights, always super great cust service. Will miss them, us there lights a lot.


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## amanichen (Dec 3, 2017)

My own impression of the 4Sevens brand is that the build was a little too on the budget side. They're the only lights I've had outright fail during usage (three separate models) aside from a couple of Fenix E05s from 5-6 years ago.

I always scratched my head at the 4Sevens "rebranding" a few years ago where the prices went up 20%-30%, for what I understand was basically a new logo. I'm not sure if this was a move the brand upmarket, or avoid overlap with Olight, since I believe Olight was the OEM for the quark line.

Within a couple of years, it was clear the Quark line didn't receive much R&D attention, and fell behind offer brands.

If I remember correctly, around the time 4Sevens entered into a technology sharing agreement with Olight, David joined Olight's board of directors. Not sure if he is still there, but he seems very entrepreneurial so I don't think he'll have any issues in future endeavors.

And, I always received very good customer service from the people at 4Sevens (and before at Fenix Store) so I'm sure the new owner will be getting a good crew.


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## TIP AND RING (Dec 3, 2017)

Hopefully, QC will be at the forefront of new leadership. At the time of purchases I really liked the tactical UI and features, but none of the lights endured light carry. Every one failed after several weeks.
Customer service was superb, but I couldn't trust the brand.


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## Swordforthelord (Dec 3, 2017)

TIP AND RING said:


> Hopefully, QC will be at the forefront of new leadership. At the time of purchases I really liked the tactical UI and features, but none of the lights endured light carry. Every one failed after several weeks.
> Customer service was superb, but I couldn't trust the brand.


An original Quark AA was in my pocket every day for several years and it never failed me, other than some flickering a couple years in that was resolved by cleaning the threads. However, I will admit that my Atom A0 Red was a lemon but that has been the exception of the 14 4Seven's lights I've owned.


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## insanefred (Dec 3, 2017)

I stopped buying their lights some time ago when they went another direction with their lights that I disagreed with. Too bad, I still have their Quark tactical AA warm white (2700k) on my computer desk.


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## Kid9P (Dec 3, 2017)

insanefred said:


> I stopped buying their lights some time ago when they went another direction with their lights that I disagreed with. Too bad, I still have their Quark tactical AA warm white (2700k) on my computer desk.



I was pretty much in the same boat. Quarks were my favorite.
Never really got into their newer stuff.
Sad to see them go though.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Dec 3, 2017)

TIP AND RING said:


> Hopefully, QC will be at the forefront of new leadership. At the time of purchases I really liked the tactical UI and features, but none of the lights endured light carry. Every one failed after several weeks.
> Customer service was superb, but I couldn't trust the brand.



Back when they called it the Preon P0, I had one made of stainless that worked well until one day it just stopped working. In retrospect I think it was the driver somehow unscrewing itself out of the head. One of my two CPF 15th anniversary Atom A0's made of titanium works perfectly, and the other one came out of the box with major problems. I sent it back to 47's for repair along with a very very detailed report of exactly what the problem was. They contacted me back saying they couldn't see anything wrong. My response was a very frustrated E-mail telling them to simply try to make the light switch back and forth between the two brightness settings. Half the time it just skips the next mode and goes right back to the brightness it was just on. And for some reason you need to unscrew the head until the O-ring is hanging out in order for the light to not go on when a little pressure is applied to the front of the light. After some back and forth they offered to replace the light. I said no. Send me back the one that you said you didn't see a problem with. Now I still have the light as my example of QC.

The fact that only one of my three Preon P0/Atom A0s still works makes me wonder if the third one is doomed to failure. When they work right, they are great little lights.


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## Tixx (Dec 4, 2017)

Tachead said:


> This doesn't surprise me really. Guesses on who is buying them out? Olight?



David confirmed it was not Olight surprisingly. Guessing the PK Designs guy who helped with the Paladine light?


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## WDR65 (Dec 4, 2017)

I'm disappointed to see this thread. I realize that the flashlight industry is quite cutthroat with designs being imitated almost as soon as they are released and true innovation often pushed by the wayside for more output. I think David did a great job with being innovative and unique in a lot of his offerings and truly listening to the people of this forum and caring about what they thought. 
I'll admit I haven't bought as many of the lights since the original Quarks were discontinued but I still have at least 11 and I've given many more away as gifts. I've always had good service and have been impressed with the quality of the product. I wish David the best in his future endeavors and hope he does continue to hang around and offer some input to the forum.


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## Bruno28 (Dec 4, 2017)

saypat said:


> fortunate to pick up a couple of Preon P1s on sale for $12/ea a while back. At a good price of $20 now. Hoping the P2s go on sale as well.



The P1 is for $12 and P2 for $15 at the moment.


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## recDNA (Dec 4, 2017)

insanefred said:


> I stopped buying their lights some time ago when they went another direction with their lights that I disagreed with. Too bad, I still have their Quark tactical AA warm white (2700k) on my computer desk.


David once catered to CPF members almost building exactly what we asked for. One of the first with neutral and HCRI lights. Then he changed course. Said no more neutral and try to grab the tactical market. Ironically soon after he stopped producing neutral lights others started and so I switched. Loved my Quark ti though. They were spectacular.


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## UnderPar (Dec 4, 2017)

Thanks for bringing in the Quark series lights. It has always been my favorite especially the Pro. Wishing you all the best David!


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## cp2315 (Dec 4, 2017)

Very sad to hear this. Fortunately I stocked up with a couple of the older quark tactical QTL from 47s on eBay not long ago. Great UI with two modes tighten or Untightened and both modes can be programmed to one of the eight modes. 

just heads up, 47s is still selling some models on eBay for very reasonable prices.


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## DaveTheDude (Dec 4, 2017)

Some of my favorite EDC lights are older model Mini 123's, and Mini AA's. I have two of each in what at the time was advertised as limited edition neutral white. Now, after ten years of use, and after critical comparison of my vintage Foursevens lights with a dozen or so more recent lights sporting a Nichia 219 emitter (A, B, and C versions), I'm of the opinion that David used Nichia 219A emitters in both of my vintage Mini AA's, and in one of my vintage Mini 123's. These vintage EDC lights are a treasure, producing a high CRI beam that is not often found today.

David has left a lasting mark on flashaholics worldwide. 

Well done, sir, well done.


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## wolfgaze (Dec 5, 2017)

Anyone know where I might be able to find the stainless Preon pocket clips for sale?


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## Got Lumens? (Dec 7, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> Anyone know where I might be able to find the stainless Preon pocket clips for sale?


Nope. Not unless You an find someone that has one to sell You one. But I do know you can still buy the Titanium upgrade clip for them. Outlasts the stock clip hands down.


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## Got Lumens? (Dec 7, 2017)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> Back when they called it the Preon P0, I had one made of stainless that worked well until one day it just stopped working. In retrospect I think it was the driver somehow unscrewing itself out of the head. One of my two CPF 15th anniversary Atom A0's made of titanium works perfectly, and the other one came out of the box with major problems. I sent it back to 47's for repair along with a very very detailed report of exactly what the problem was. They contacted me back saying they couldn't see anything wrong. My response was a very frustrated E-mail telling them to simply try to make the light switch back and forth between the two brightness settings. Half the time it just skips the next mode and goes right back to the brightness it was just on. And for some reason you need to unscrew the head until the O-ring is hanging out in order for the light to not go on when a little pressure is applied to the front of the light. After some back and forth they offered to replace the light. I said no. Send me back the one that you said you didn't see a problem with. Now I still have the light as my example of QC.
> 
> The fact that only one of my three Preon P0/Atom A0s still works makes me wonder if the third one is doomed to failure. When they work right, they are great little lights.


There was a problem with the component spacing on the board in the first version release of the light. the positive anode of the battery rubbed against the components and in some cases caused a failure. This was fixed in the second revision. See my review here: 4 Sevens P0 Mini Video Review - Eneloop Battery Research Video


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## wolfgaze (Dec 7, 2017)

Got Lumens? said:


> Nope. Not unless You an find someone that has one to sell You one. But I do know you can still buy the Titanium upgrade clip for them. Outlasts the stock clip hands down.



This is the pocket clip I'm looking for:
https://www.gpknives.com/foursevens-new-preon-p2-blue-knurled-p2-de.html

Over the spring/summer there was a thread discussion about the Lumintop Tool (Ti) and someone shared that this pocket clip worked on those lights... A bunch of us ordered these (from 4Sevens) for our Tool lights. I figured I would try to grab a couple more once I found out that the company was going out of business... I may consider the DarkSucks clip but really these newer Preon clips are nice)


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## benhar (Dec 7, 2017)

recDNA said:


> David once catered to CPF members almost building exactly what we asked for. One of the first with neutral and HCRI lights. Then he changed course. Said no more neutral and try to grab the tactical market. Ironically soon after he stopped producing neutral lights others started and so I switched. Loved my Quark ti though. They were spectacular.


Exactly. The 2AA Quark Tactical was my gateway flashlight (i.e., first > 100 lumen light), and I still travel with it today. For better or worse the neutral tint spoiled me and I hadn't been able to bring myself to get a 47 for a while since I never see neutrals. Though due to the clearance I couldn't resist grabbing a Mini MkII and Q2L for truck/utility light; always wanted to try those, but again, was trying to hold out for a neutral run.

Will always have respect for the brand! My complimentary Ti Preon I received for coincidentally suggesting the name "Preon" still rides my keychain, that thing just keeps trucking! Thanks, David, and best of luck!


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## whiteoakjoe (Dec 7, 2017)

I wish David the best of luck his products made me a Flashaholic. I am hopeful that the new owner can bring back some of the Quark Tactical lights. They are simply the best light I have ever owned. Newer lights may be brighter, but that UI of the Quark tactical is perfect. I can only post this here and cross my fingers that the new owner will see our plea. Please offer the following lights, we will buy them.
1. Quark AA Tactical in both single and double battery tubes
2. Quark 123 Tactical with an 18650 tube if possible. the Quark few 18650 tubes that exist are worth their weight in gold. 
3. Turbo heads for these lights so we can lego just what we want and need.
4. Neutral White... It is almost a joke here to ask David for neutral LED's but to so many of us there is no going back from one.
5. The MINI line is great as long as its cost is low, those are the perfect stash everywhere lights loaded with a lithium primary.


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## Got Lumens? (Dec 7, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> This is the pocket clip I'm looking for:
> https://www.gpknives.com/foursevens-new-preon-p2-blue-knurled-p2-de.html
> 
> Over the spring/summer there was a thread discussion about the Lumintop Tool (Ti) and someone shared that this pocket clip worked on those lights... A bunch of us ordered these (from 4Sevens) for our Tool lights. I figured I would try to grab a couple more once I found out that the company was going out of business... I may consider the DarkSucks clip but really these newer Preon clips are nice)


The two are not compatible. The legacy Preon clips do not fit the new style lights and the New style clips do not fit the legacy Preon lights. You may be able to adapt them though, I have not tried. Good luck with your search. I have not seen the new style clips sold separate from the lights. Give Customer service a call they may still have some New Style warranty stock clips they may be able to part with .


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## kalel332 (Dec 7, 2017)

I finally ordered my first Foursevens, the Quark Smart QSL.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 7, 2017)

kalel332 said:


> I finally ordered my first Foursevens, the Quark Smart QSL.



There's a lot of helpful information in the Foursevens area, located in the *Manufactures *section. The QSL has its own thread.

~ Chance


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## kalel332 (Dec 7, 2017)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> There's a lot of helpful information in the Foursevens area, located in the *Manufactures *section. The QSL has its own thread.
> 
> ~ Chance


Thanks


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## jon_slider (Dec 7, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> This is the pocket clip I'm looking for:



seems to be out of stock
http://www.foursevens.com/product_info.php?products_id=3404


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## wolfgaze (Dec 7, 2017)

Got Lumens? said:


> The two are not compatible. The legacy Preon clips do not fit the new style lights and the New style clips do not fit the legacy Preon lights. You may be able to adapt them though, I have not tried.



Right, I don't own any 4Sevens lights, I just need the newer style Preon pocket clips for my Lumintop Tools (Ti)... 



jon_slider said:


> seems to be out of stock
> http://www.foursevens.com/product_info.php?products_id=3404



Thanks for finding the link... I'll have to call them sometime to inquire about future availability (not too hopeful though)...


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## Outdoorsman5 (Dec 8, 2017)

WOW, can't believe this. Foursevens was my favorite company for years, made my favorite lights to give as gifts, and I carried a Quark AA for years until Zebralight got my interest. I loved Foursevens older stuff, but not so much their newer stuff these last few years. I still own a lot of em though, and still use the Quark Turbo QB2A (terrible name...who can remember names like this) on an 18650 body quite a bit around the house because of its excellent throw for a 2xAA light and its simplicity. I sure wish they kept making the 18650 bodies! I live on a bunch of land and use my lights every night plus am the Scoutmaster of our troop. Our Quarks sure served us well over the years!! My daughter's night light is a Quark AA2 (that was a well named light.) She's been using it every night on moonlight for I think 8 years, and STILL GOING STRONG!! We run it on eneloops.

I bet the beginning of the end for David was when he got sued by Surefire. Ever since he could not use the lockout feature on his lights which was a deal breaker for me since when traveling or backpacking I unscrew the tail of the light so it can turn on by accident. It's crazy that David got sued for this but no one else did (that I heard of). Since Zebralight still offers it along with a superior design, they get most of my business. It was only this year that I reached a point of owning more zebralights than Quarks, and I haven't bought a Quark in years. 

Best Wishes to a great guy with a great legacy!
God Bless you and your family David!!


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## edpmis02 (Dec 9, 2017)

Preon provided some choices in flashlight colors. I have two "Burnt Orange" penlights and a red Preon 2.

It would have been nice to have some diffuser cones to go along with the moonlight mode of the Quarks. Fenix cones do not fit the Quarks. Fenix low mode is a bit too bright for nighttime use. 

My humble collection: (pre rebranding)
Quark AA^2
Quark X AA^2 (gifted)
Quark 123 w/ prizm kit (which never used)
Quark 123 (warm)
Quark Tactical (neutral)
Turbo AA^2
Turbo 123^2
Turbo X (never used)

the warm head currently on the Turbo AA^2 body
Low voltage Turbo has a 1AA body with 14500
Neutral Quark tactical has a regular tailswitch for tail standing high/low


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## Zeyeman (Dec 10, 2017)

I got involved with legacy FourSevens in November 2007 when I bought a Fenix L0D AAA (still have it). That led to the L1D P2D combo with the CR123A/AA tubes. Over the years, especially after FourSevens separated from Fenix and sold FourSevens lights exclusively, I bought almost one of everything. But not so much in recent years, mainly because:


-The demise of Neutral. I can see Warms disappearing, but Neutral? Especially at the time when Cool Whites were really blue-ish/green-ish. Moved on to Zebralight, oLight, and Nitecore for neutrals.
-Two broken 360 headlamp adapters. The most brittle. plastic. ever.
-Weird designs like the Bolt and Bolt Mini, and Paladin.
-And the last straw for me was no Android interface for the Smart Lights. WTF? Well not specifically that it never materialized, but how David was so defensive of the lack of Android, including quoting his iOS developer who told him that Bluetooth for Android was almost impossible to program for. Really? Of course your iOS developer is going to say that--find a developer that can do both, or find a real Android developer! Ah, water under the bridge...


In the end I still use FourSevens lights every day (I use an 2xAA Quark as nightlight for my son, I just pulled my Titanium AA out of the drawer for fun, and I recently revisited the Atom A0 in stainless and titanium). David produced many great lights over the years, but probably what I will remember most is their fantastic customer service. I wish David all the best.


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## pomah (Dec 10, 2017)

Still using my QT2L-X every day, hard time finding anything that can beat it when it comes to UI and lumens. I hope for an update to this line with the tactical UI and 18650 compatibility.

Ty for your lights, they light up my day, every day. (and my sons, he has my old QT2A)


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Dec 10, 2017)

It's been years since I've bought a 4Sevens light. I think all of mine were made before the logo change, I've probably got a dozen or so Quarks in drawers somewhere. Nice lights but not too reliable in my experience with slight production variations in threads and that extra clip retaining ring that seemed to sometimes loosen and cause current path problems.

I have a few of the original titanium Quarks, some unopened, so I went to the closeout page and got a Ti Mini MKII for nostalgia purposes. Great little light but with the customary gritty titanium threads and inconsistent twisty mode changes. I put an AW 550ma IMR battery in and it seems to do the 1000 lumen high for a few seconds as advertised. The little light gets hot as a two dollar pistol then throttles down for thermal stability from the high setting. It looks like the TIR optic has no glass in front of it so I guess I won't use this one as a keychain light, it would get scratched too easily. 

The tint is gorgeous, especially when compared to recent greenish SureFire's. :thumbsup:

Hope David's next professional adventure continues his successful career. Go Jackets!


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## Erik1213 (Dec 10, 2017)

I haven't been on these forums in a long time.

My last purchase from Foursevens was in 2014.

My last flashlight was a Zebralight when the SC63 came out.

But, of course, I log on here and see a deal on a light from Foursevens and just HAD to order one.

This is why I avoid these forums.

Hopefully the new owner innovates like FourSevens used to.


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## kyhunter1 (Dec 10, 2017)

Hate to see foursevens go. I liked the quarks with either interface and the true moon mode. I have several around the house for reasonably priced utility beater lights. The lack of neutrals and 18650 support caused me to move on to other lights for edc. Eagletac’s D25LC2 in XPL Hi neutral is close to perfect for my needs. The quark design could have been easily tweaked over the years but that didnt happen. They are good lights anyhow and mine are not for sale. Best wishes to David and crew.


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## wacbzz (Dec 10, 2017)

So, what will become of the ten year warranty on FourSevens flashlights?


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## kalel332 (Dec 11, 2017)

wacbzz said:


> So, what will become of the ten year warranty on FourSevens flashlights?


I guess we are going to have to wait until the Foursevens sale is completed.


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## ncvarmint2016 (Dec 11, 2017)

I love the 123-2 quarks and edc a 123-2 hi-cri for the last 5 years or so i guess and it just keeps going. Been in rivers,creeks,dropped thrown and even dropped in the porta john at work( don't ask how i got it out)
1) quark 123-2 xpg hi-cri (also a NIB one too)
2) quark X 123-2 nuetral white xml
3) quark 123-2 burst with xml2 4000k
4) quark 123-2 Pro with 3000k hi cri
5) quark 123-2 Pro with nichia 219c 4000k
looking to get a couple more soon


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## ncvarmint2016 (Dec 11, 2017)

They should honor it i would hope.


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## Eric242 (Dec 11, 2017)

wacbzz said:


> So, what will become of the ten year warranty on FourSevens flashlights?





ncvarmint2016 said:


> They should honor it i would hope.


No company no warrenty. There will be no warrenty IF the foursevens.llc ceases to exist. If it´s sold and just a new owner on board warrenty should be honored.



kalel332 said:


> I guess we are going to have to wait until the Foursevens sale is completed.


Exactly, we´ll see in 2018.

Eric


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## thebeans (Dec 11, 2017)

Yep, sad to see them go. Over the years I have bought ~ 8-10 to use or collect and also bought batches of CR2 Minis that I de-anodized and sold on here. Have always liked their designs though I hadn't bought any in a while until today. Decided to pick up a stainless Turbo MKII as a shelf queen and a non turbo to use. Best wishes to David and company and curious to see what comes of the company under new ownership.


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## Got Lumens? (Dec 11, 2017)

David said,
We need to wait for the next announcement. I know his character and dedication to CPF's. I am one to believe that he will not be leaving us and all his other long time customers out to dry. Let's not rush to any conclusions. I am anxiously awaiting to hear the next announcement, and firmly believe the warranty of all products has been taken in his consideration. I too am sad to see his departure, but have hope as he stated, "The Legacy Will Continue".


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Dec 11, 2017)

Regarding Warranty: I too trust that David has ensured that all of us will be well taken care of. Whoever is buying the company has done "due diligence" and no doubt is well aware of the caliber and quality of their customer service. I believe Four Sevens customer service is part of the value...Here are a few of my latest acquisitions:
https://imgur.com/a/M72pp
Oops, I forgot to include the Maelstroms and Bolt lights...


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 11, 2017)

There was a time, not too long ago, that speculation concerning such matters was heavily frowned upon by CPF management. 

Very nice additions, Crazyeddiethefirst! :thumbsup: 

~ Chance


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## Flashlight Dave (Dec 12, 2017)

This is a sad day. A lot of my lights are foursevens lights. I have though wondered if this would happen. It seems that his lights are just not popular anymore other than the Preon which seems to flicker on all of mine. Sad day. David sorry to see you go. R.I.P. Foursevens. However, I am pleased to see all of those Bibles on your shelf.


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## Mr. Shawn (Dec 14, 2017)

I also have purchased multiple lights from David and team since 2007*** and will miss the excellent customer service and cutting-edge technology readily available in Foursevens lights. I wish David and his team the best in their next adventures. Thank you for contributing to our flashaholism! :thumbsup:

***Out of curiosity, I reviewed my Foursevens order history. My first order, on 11/26/07, was for a Fenix Digital P3D OLIVE Premium Q5 and Keep2Go Evergreen (4 CR123A battery holder). Although the P3D Q5 was my first high-quality LED torch (which I sold several years ago), I fondly remember receiving it and its "wow effect" that started my flashaholic adventure.

Hmmm, Foursevens order history would make for an interesting thread, which might include number of orders, items ordered, and possibly—even scarily —total money invested.


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## WDR65 (Dec 14, 2017)

Mr. Shawn said:


> Hmmm, Foursevens order history would make for an interesting thread, which might include number of orders, items ordered, and possibly—even scarily —total money invested.




I just placed another order and checked my order history. I've averaged about $140 per year since 2008 on Foursevens lights. I was pondering on the amount and realized that the figure is just a little more than what I spend on Netflix per year and overall I get as much or more enjoyment out of the lights than I do Netflix. 
As I've said before in this thread I'm sad to see this but after my last order I foresee myself using Foursevens products for years to come.


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## Swordforthelord (Dec 14, 2017)

WDR65 said:


> I was pondering on the amount and realized that the figure is just a little more than what I spend on Netflix per year and overall I get as much or more enjoyment out of the lights than I do Netflix.



I never thought about it that way before. I've been seriously underspending on lights!


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## OutdoorsIQ (Dec 14, 2017)

I’ll be sad to see them go, I remember when the QuarkSmart came out, I thought it was the most innovative new feature. I guess it just never took off.


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Dec 15, 2017)

My Four Seven's Collection:
https://imgur.com/a/NIybQ
Does not include all my Four Seven's/Collaborative work, as some of my very favorites still have new in box backups & others are in bug out bags, cars, etc....
Oh Yeah, does not include new lights still enroute....
Thanks David, for all the great lights....


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Dec 15, 2017)

David posted this on Foursevens.com as I ponder the beauty of my new $18 Mini MKII Turbo:



> *Final Thoughts - December 15, 2017*
> 
> As we are closing our store today many thoughts and feelings come up that I wish to express.
> Firstly, I want to thank you all for being a fan of FOURSEVENS these 10+ years. Without you, our loyal and adamant supporters, we wouldn't have been able to achieve all that we have. It has been a wonderful journey to take mere ideas on paper all the way through to production and into the your hands to enjoy. I am thankful for each of our customers and the interactions that we had - not only for the numerous gracious compliments but also all the critical feedback we received. It has been a never ending learning process and we have learned so much in these years.
> ...


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## Cerealand (Dec 16, 2017)

Can't check out on their website anymore.


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## Bruno28 (Dec 16, 2017)

Cerealand said:


> Can't check out on their website anymore.


I know. I was holding on to but 4x mini mkII turbo yesterday but thought they would discount the SS version further. Tried to check out today and you can't anymore. Missed it


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## ronniepudding (Dec 16, 2017)

I was placing an order last night, and agonized too long about what should be in the cart... By the time I got around to checking out (after midnight) payment failed to complete 

Probably for the best, I've already placed 3 orders in the past couple of months. I'm going to stop buying flashlights for the remainder of 2017 

I figure someone will be selling those Mini Mark IIs in 2018.


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## KuroNekko (Dec 16, 2017)

Bruno28 said:


> I know. I was holding on to but 4x mini mkII turbo yesterday but thought they would discount the SS version further. Tried to check out today and you can't anymore. Missed it



Yup, looks like they closed the shop for online sales on Friday, December 15th, ending online sales. I was also holding out for possibly lower prices. However, I am glad I got myself an Atom AL with the 360 headlamp kit for a stellar price a while back. It was before the announcement of closure under David so I just figured the Atom series were out of season or something. I originally just wanted the headband for my MLR2 but seeing that the Atom AL was only $7.50 more, I got the kit. It's a great light, much like my MLR2.

It's truly sad for flashlight enthusiasts to see Foursevens go, especially since no one else seemed to put so much effort and features into small EDC-sized flashlights.


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## Bruno28 (Dec 16, 2017)

But they are not closing down. They will just transfer ownership isn't it? 
And we just have to hope that the new owner is driven for innovation and quality as David was. I've never owned a Foursevens. I did order a mini mk2 titanium and a mini mk2 turbo (wish I ordered more) which arrived my country in Monday but I'm feeling the package got lost as it's been 5 days and still no update on tracking. Normally things get delivered next day after it arrives into the country. 
I hope it's not lost or I'll never get the lights.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Dec 17, 2017)

Too bad, but I'm not at all surprised. My first "real" lights were Quarks, and I still use them occasionally.

However, 4seven's insistence to use only cool-white LEDs, had me moving on to other brands. Plus, their lawsuit loss to Surefire killed their good user interface design in the Quarks. It's been years since I bought anything from them.

Good lights, good company, but they were unable to keep up with the times.


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## ncvarmint2016 (Dec 17, 2017)

Same for me,
i love the four sevens quark pro 123-2 and havnt bought but 2 in the last 4-5 years and i had them modded to 4000k and 3000k leds. Them using cool whites i think really hurt there sales. I have went to eagtac last 3-4 years because of there use of nuetral whites. I was wanting to order some spare tailcaps but kept putting it off and now can't get them.
=WalkIntoTheLight;5164543]Too bad, but I'm not at all surprised. My first "real" lights were Quarks, and I still use them occasionally.

However, 4seven's insistence to use only cool-white LEDs, had me moving on to other brands. Plus, their lawsuit loss to Surefire killed their good user interface design in the Quarks. It's been years since I bought anything from them.

Good lights, good company, but they were unable to keep up with the times.[/QUOTE]


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## lumenati (Dec 17, 2017)

I love FOURSEVENS!
I have purchased over 2 dozen of their flashlights in the last year alone. Super deals and many for gifts. I have several with neutral LEDs and love the tints, 4 of which were bought in the last 7 months. I have purchased lights nearly every year from FOURSEVENS for the last 11 years. Well over 50. I love FOURSEVENS! (And I am not alone.)


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## 18650 (Dec 17, 2017)

ncvarmint2016 said:


> Same for me, i love the four sevens quark pro 123-2 and havnt bought but 2 in the last 4-5 years and i had them modded to 4000k and 3000k leds. Them using cool whites i think really hurt there sales. I have went to eagtac last 3-4 years because of there use of nuetral whites. I was wanting to order some spare tailcaps but kept putting it off and now can't get them. =WalkIntoTheLight;5164543]Too bad, but I'm not at all surprised. My first "real" lights were Quarks, and I still use them occasionally. However, 4seven's insistence to use only cool-white LEDs, had me moving on to other brands. Plus, their lawsuit loss to Surefire killed their good user interface design in the Quarks. It's been years since I bought anything from them. Good lights, good company, but they were unable to keep up with the times.


 It's funny how myths like this get created and passed on when the company itself has said their neutrals didn't sell nearly as well.


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## torchsarecool (Dec 17, 2017)

Wow, judging by some above posts, i must have narrowly got in my order then. It was 7.55am 16th december my time. I ordered a mini turbo and checkout worked ok for me.
My first foursevens light, better late then never.


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## jfhrtn (Dec 17, 2017)

Glad I went ahead and ordered the mini mk ii on Friday about 2pm eastern time. My turbo version needed the non turbo to compliment it. Still processing but maybe it will get shipped out this coming week


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## ncvarmint2016 (Dec 17, 2017)

That might be true for foursevens but i know they would have made alot more sale had they used more 219's, cree warms and nuetrals. I wouldnt have bought the 6 eagtacs i have if 4sevens had made the tint's i wanted. It also cost me more $ since i had to send the cool whites off to get led swapped. But i wish them the best and hopefully the new owner will add some variety to his lights and hopefully he makes some more quark style lights


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## Got Lumens? (Dec 17, 2017)

18650 said:


> It's funny how myths like this get created and passed on when the company itself has said their neutrals didn't sell nearly as well.





ncvarmint2016 said:


> That might be true for foursevens but i know they would have made alot more sale had they used more 219's, cree warms and nuetrals. I wouldnt have bought the 6 eagtacs i have if 4sevens had made the tint's i wanted. It also cost me more $ since i had to send the cool whites off to get led swapped. But i wish them the best and hopefully the new owner will add some variety to his lights and hopefully he makes some more quark style lights


4Sevens made plenty of Neutral, Warm, HCRI, and Preon 219's runs for us folks, they were not popular with mainstream public, ~85% of their sales. David has even said this himself many times. He also has wanted to do more for us, but could not justify making ~500 light runs to sell only handful to us and sit on the rest for two or more years. Those are the hard financial facts. I too wish there were more made, but it simply was not a good economical business decision. The MKII's were available in NW, I have two .


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 17, 2017)

Got Lumens? said:


> 4Sevens made plenty of Neutral, Warm, HCRI, and Preon 219's runs for us folks, they were not popular with mainstream public, ~85% of their sales. David has even said this himself many times. He also has wanted to do more for us, but could not justify making ~500 light runs to sell only handful to us and sit on the rest for two or more years. Those are the hard financial facts. I too wish there were more made, but it simply was not a good economical business decision. The MKII's were available in NW, I have two .



Yep. What he said. 

~ Cg


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## wacbzz (Dec 17, 2017)

I now sincerely regret not picking up any of the warm FS light when they were available. My relative newness to really bright lights at the time convinced me to pass on them. SMH...


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## Got Lumens? (Dec 17, 2017)

Nice Chance :thumbsup:


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## Got Lumens? (Dec 17, 2017)

post moved here


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## Cerealand (Dec 17, 2017)

Even at the deeply discounted price, the neutral white mark II took a while to sell.


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## Woods Walker (Dec 17, 2017)

Here is my breakdown so far when comparing CW/NW/Warm to people who aren't really into flashlights. One third prefer the warmer tints, one third prefer the CW and the final third don't care and were humoring me by feigning attention. So I take David at his word. People see the highter output. They don't care if the human eye can't really distinguish 7%. They just know instinctively more is better. This at times will confuse and even anger some flashlight enthusiasts. No joking. I have seen people actually mad over this. :shakehead To each their own.


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## Got Lumens? (Dec 17, 2017)

Woods Walker said:


> Here is my breakdown so far when comparing CW/NW/Warm to people who aren't really into flashlights. One third prefer the warmer tints, one third prefer the CW and the final third don't care and were humoring me by feigning attention. So I take David at his word. People see the highter output. They don't care if the human eye can't really distinguish 7%. They just know instinctively more is better. This at times will confuse and even anger some flashlight enthusiasts. No joking. I have seen people actually mad over this. :shakehead To each their own.


 +1 This is true. This statement has even been echoed by Dealers who have a lot more input and interaction than the standard flashaholic  People just look at oh this light has 800 lumens and that one only has 600 lumens, the one with 800 _Must_ be better :shakehead. When in fact it all boils down to preference and application. Everyone's eyes are different.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Dec 18, 2017)

Woods Walker said:


> Here is my breakdown so far when comparing CW/NW/Warm to people who aren't really into flashlights. One third prefer the warmer tints, one third prefer the CW and the final third don't care and were humoring me by feigning attention. So I take David at his word. People see the highter output. They don't care if the human eye can't really distinguish 7%. They just know instinctively more is better. This at times will confuse and even anger some flashlight enthusiasts. No joking. I have seen people actually mad over this. :shakehead To each their own.



The problem is that 4sevens marketed their lights for "regular" people, but priced them for flashaholics. Their lights aren't the brightest or most efficient to start with, so newbies can easily get brighter and cheaper elsewhere.

I have no doubt their neutrals didn't sell too well, because they never tried to sell them. They buried them on their website, and never tried to explain their benefits. Were they even sent to distributors, where most of their lights were sold?

I got the feeling they were trying to compete with companies like maglite. Yes, their lights were way better than mags, but they didn't have the distribution network that mag has developed.

Finally, they started designing really strange lights. Bolts for switches, blue-tooth lights, etc. Those just aren't marketable to the general public, and most flashaholics don't really go in for gimmicks like that either.

I think they got left behind, when flashlight companies started designing really nice lights that we've got over the past year or two. Chinese companies used to only build junk lights, but now they've got some very good designs that are also quite inexpensive.

You've got to either build good, or cheap. Or, get some celebrity to endorse your product if it doesn't sell itself. Maybe they should have got a Kardashian to promote it.


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## Bozzlite (Dec 18, 2017)

I was searching for a new light and remembered 47s and the Quarks. When I went to the web site, I was saddened to see that they had closed shop. I remember when he first started..near 10 years ago I guess.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 18, 2017)

As long as we're reminiscing....

When the Titanium Quark came out in 2009, it was a *huge*, huge leap forward in flashlight technology. 

To this day, it is one of the most perfect total packages that has ever been crafted. It had everything--performance, UI, robustness, and looks. Esp. looks!

Sure, it has been overtaken in output. And personally, I no longer like titanium for high-performance lights, because the heat-sinking is sub-par.

But that was the best light in the world for several years--and several years in this business is a long, long time.

David, I want to thank you for several dozen great lights that I bought, used, gifted, lego'ed, modded, and still love.

I hope you know how grateful I am, and I'm pretty sure you do, because I transferred well over a thousand dollars of gratitude from my bank to yours.

It was worth it. 4Sevens set new standards for excellence.


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## Outdoorsman5 (Dec 18, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> As long as we're reminiscing....
> 
> When the Titanium Quark came out in 2009, it was a *huge*, huge leap forward in flashlight technology.
> 
> ...



Great Post lampeDepeche!

I'd like to thank David as well. I had a blast buying his lights, visiting his store, reading & writing reviews on his lights on CPF over the years. It's sad to see you go David!!


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## Beamhead (Dec 18, 2017)

My last minute order shows shipped.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 18, 2017)

Beamhead said:


> My last minute order shows shipped.



I heard TJ stayed late to take care of it. That guy's the best! :thumbsup: 

~ Chance


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## jabe1 (Dec 18, 2017)

Beamhead said:


> My last minute order shows shipped.



Nice!, Mine too! And I just got the mail and found a bright (pun intended) shiny new SS mini turbo!


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## Bruno28 (Dec 18, 2017)

Finally my order arrived. Added the mini mk2 ti and mini mk2 turbo to the list of 16340 lights.
The titanium is a bit gritty on the twist. While the aluminium is super smooth. With time will the titanium get smoother?


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## flashy bazook (Dec 19, 2017)

Another milestone in flashlight development...4Sevens was an important figure, a dealer turned designer.

He has indeed sold a lot of lights to flashaholics here and more normal people elsewhere. It was something of a phenomenon, which I saw in amazement as he changed from a Fenix dealer to the Quark creator. I always wondered which Chinese factory he was using, since of course he didn't have his own manufacturing facilities.

He really did ride up the wave of new tech in flashlights.

To be fair, he was innovative, and there are important people who value his work and contributions. I just recently saw posts by Vihn in his subforum here in CPF praising 4Seven's contributions.

I can also add the writer of the OneBag blog who praised 4Seven creations and recommended them for travel.

But, personally, I have to say I never got into the 4Seven mania and in fact though a big buyer of flashlights never got a single quark product.

Not a tint issue either. Something about the whole thing seemed very marketing based to me, sort of turning around Chinese products and relabeling them.

This is too unfair, of course, since the design elements were there and many people appreciated them.

Anyway, I feel the need to mark the passing of the quark, which in its own way made a big splash and will probably be remembered for a long time among those who have been around the flashlight revolution.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Dec 19, 2017)

I can remember when these board were full of discussion about 4seven's Quarks and other products. Probably the most discussed brand here, a few years ago. But given the silence about the brand over the past couple of years, I don't think any of us should be surprised by this news.

The only thing that shocks me every day: m*g is still in business!?!


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## markr6 (Dec 19, 2017)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The only thing that shocks me every day: m*g is still in business!?!



What's with the *?


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## archimedes (Dec 19, 2017)

markr6 said:


> What's with the *?


It has to do with long ago history, that would be off topic in this thread, and I would prefer not to rehash right here.

Any number of searches should likely turn up the outlines of that story, thanks.


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## jag-engr (Dec 27, 2017)

Foursevens (or 4sevens as some of us still remember the company) will be sorely missed.

David Chow played a huge part in creating the the modern LED flashlight market that we know today. The company brought many innovations to the table, or at least to the mainstream - constant-current regulation, neutral-tint LEDs (Zebralight also helped), and production titanium flashlights.

I, for one, wish David the best in his future ventures and hope that the new management can continue David's tradition of excellence.


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## torchsarecool (Dec 27, 2017)

Well I received my mini turbo aluminium through the post today. Only taken 9 days to reach England which is good going. What can I say... I absolutely love it! It's my first foursevens, and I'm chuffed to bits. It's taken pride of place on my keys alongside my manker LAD and has retired my e05ss 

What a great legacy you've left, I wish you all the very best David and team


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## bykfixer (Dec 27, 2017)

markr6 said:


> What's with the *?



Tony Maglica sued a bunch of people a long time ago saying they'd stolen ideas. Some still type "M*g", others "[email protected]". Some as a joke, some because they still refuse to say the name.

Best regards David. You dun good.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Dec 27, 2017)

Several here have commented on tints of the four sevens lights. I seem to always be late to the party and find out about things after they are no longer available. It's ironic that 47s would be sitting on the warm tinted lights for so long when I would have gladly purchased many 47s lights had they been available in a warm tinted version. By the time I found out they were once made, it was too late, and they never came back. I wonder if warm or neutral would be more successful being that the general public seems to be becoming more aware of things like CRI. Also I feel that LED technology has gotten far enough that the lumens race could maybe take a backseat.

I wish people didn't think it was so cool to have a 1000 lumens light.

I'd take light quality over light quantity any day.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Dec 28, 2017)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> Several here have commented on tints of the four sevens lights. I seem to always be late to the party and find out about things after they are no longer available. It's ironic that 47s would be sitting on the warm tinted lights for so long when I would have gladly purchased many 47s lights had they been available in a warm tinted version. By the time I found out they were once made, it was too late, and they never came back. I wonder if warm or neutral would be more successful being that the general public seems to be becoming more aware of things like CRI.



Yes, but 4sevens never pushed their better tints. They buried them, so few people even knew about them. It's no wonder that 4sevens claimed they didn't sell and that cool white was the only thing worth producing. Also, I think 4sevens marketed to the general public that just wants lumens. Which, IMO, was a dumb idea because their lights were too expensive for the general public and they didn't produce the highest output lights anyway.

They had a great niche starting out. I think they just went in the wrong direction and found out there were no buyers where they went.

BTW, I'm using one of my old Quarks right now, tail-standing to light up the room where I'm typing this. Very nice light, even if it's starting to get a little outdated by now.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Dec 28, 2017)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yes, but 4sevens never pushed their better tints. They buried them, so few people even knew about them. It's no wonder that 4sevens claimed they didn't sell and that cool white was the only thing worth producing. Also, I think 4sevens marketed to the general public that just wants lumens. Which, IMO, was a dumb idea because their lights were too expensive for the general public and they didn't produce the highest output lights anyway.
> 
> They had a great niche starting out. I think they just went in the wrong direction and found out there were no buyers where they went.
> 
> BTW, I'm using one of my old Quarks right now, tail-standing to light up the room where I'm typing this. Very nice light, even if it's starting to get a little outdated by now.



I agree 100% The only time I managed to get 47s lights with LEDs I wanted were illumn exclusive Preon 2s and CPF anniversary Atom A0s that used Nichia 219s. And it was only through CPF that I even found out about the Illumn exclusive Preons. Otherwise that would have been another thing I missed out on. 47s lights always look so nice, I wish I would've been on time to buy their stuff when they used warm tints...


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## 18650 (Dec 28, 2017)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yes, but 4sevens never pushed their better tints. They buried them, so few people even knew about them. It's no wonder that 4sevens claimed they didn't sell and that cool white was the only thing worth producing. Also, I think 4sevens marketed to the general public that just wants lumens. Which, IMO, was a dumb idea because their lights were too expensive for the general public and they didn't produce the highest output lights anyway. They had a great niche starting out. I think they just went in the wrong direction and found out there were no buyers where they went. BTW, I'm using one of my old Quarks right now, tail-standing to light up the room where I'm typing this. Very nice light, even if it's starting to get a little outdated by now.


 If I were to guess I'd probably guess less than 10% of the people who read this forum actually make posts on it. The problems with niche forums like this are loud minorities deluding themselves into thinking they represent the majority. Case in point: Post above says general public becoming aware of CRI? Hah! Good one.


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## Swordforthelord (Dec 28, 2017)

18650 said:


> If I were to guess I'd probably guess less than 10% of the people who read this forum actually make posts on it. The problems with niche forums like this are loud minorities deluding themselves into thinking they represent the majority. Case in point: Post above says general public becoming aware of CRI? Hah! Good one.


I know this is going OT but I think the general public will become aware of the value of high cri; however it will be through household lighting, not flashlights. Flashlight marketing is about the lumens, but nobody wants 32000 lumens by their bed or over their vanity. In those environments, light quality is going to start counting in a big way.


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## weez82 (Dec 28, 2017)

18650 said:


> If I were to guess I'd probably guess less than 10% of the people who read this forum actually make posts on it. The problems with niche forums like this are loud minorities deluding themselves into thinking they represent the majority. Case in point: Post above says general public becoming aware of CRI? Hah! Good one.



Right? The general public knows that LEDs are good. And thats about it.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Dec 28, 2017)

Swordforthelord said:


> I know this is going OT but I think the general public will become aware of the value of high cri; however it will be through household lighting, not flashlights. Flashlight marketing is about the lumens, but nobody wants 32000 lumens by their bed or over their vanity. In those environments, light quality is going to start counting in a big way.



I think you're right, but it's going to be a very very very slow process. At best, I think the average consumer might eventually understand a little about CCT, and they'll pick warm LEDs for home lighting and maybe even a flashlight (maybe!). But, I doubt they'll ever get to a point where they understand anything about CRI or tint. If it can't be explained in 5 words, it's probably too much for most people.


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## flatline (Dec 28, 2017)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> If it can't be explained in 5 words, it's probably too much for most people.



"Colors look better" or "Colors look more natural".

My wife couldn't give a hoot about the specs of any of my flashlights, but she's perfectly aware of color temperature (I can only get 5000k color temperature bulbs because she hates "the yellow ones" (aka 4000k)). And whether she realizes it or not, she's aware of color rendering since she won't let me install LEDs in her bathroom. Apparently putting on makeup is sensitive to color rendering. Who would have guessed?

--flatline


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## vestureofblood (Dec 28, 2017)

Sorry to hear it David. I've been with you since Fenixstore. Still have a 2AA X on my nite stand


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## Beamhead (Dec 28, 2017)

I love the "speculation" coming off as expert testimony as to why this look place.  

Tint caused it...................that is laughable, look at the join date of the majority of that minority. They obviously missed the early days on these forums where we had the "Luxeon Lottery", "cat urine green" and dreamed of a 100 lumen LED Light.
Warm/Neutral vs. Cool reminds me before I became a recovering Audiophile of the tube vs transistor, analog vs digital, vinyl vs CD debates.

If you grew up holding a dim extremely yellow tinted incan flashlight ( which I did) I can see why you want LED lights to mimic that, I don't care for that in fact the only 219b light I had the LED died in 30 days.
If the light illuminates what I want to see at the distance I need then sweet. :shrug:

If you are a serious outdoorsperson or perhaps a photographer and not a white wall hunter then I can respect your need for warm/neutral high CRI lights.

David did take on Goliath and I respect the hell out of him for doing so, I won't even own one of their lights. In fact I would take a [email protected] over one.

David stated over a year ago that the 47's line would become a "niche" brand to fulfill the needs and wants of that market.

We have no idea why this happened and may never truly know why so can we keep the expert speculation to a minimum?


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## InvisibleFrodo (Dec 28, 2017)

Swordforthelord said:


> I know this is going OT but I think the general public will become aware of the value of high cri; however it will be through household lighting, not flashlights. Flashlight marketing is about the lumens, but nobody wants 32000 lumens by their bed or over their vanity. In those environments, light quality is going to start counting in a big way.



Someone I won’t name who didn’t mind sounding ignorant scoffed at the idea that the general public is starting to understand what CRI is.

I agree it will probably start with household lighting. Like the boxes of FEIT ELECTRIC light bulbs I bought at Costco that very proudly proclaims “SHOWS COLORS TRUE AND NATURAL 90+ CRI” in bold letters on the box.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Dec 28, 2017)

Beamhead said:


> I love the "speculation" coming off as expert testimony as to why this look place.
> 
> Tint caused it...................that is laughable, look at the join date of the majority of that minority. They obviously missed the early days on these forums where we had the "Luxeon Lottery", "cat urine green" and dreamed of a 100 lumen LED Light.
> Warm/Neutral vs. Cool reminds me before I became a recovering Audiophile of the tube vs transistor, analog vs digital, vinyl vs CD debates.
> ...



I don’t believe anybody here claimed to be an expert. I also don’t see anybody saying tint is the reason 47s is out of business. What many people here ARE saying is that they would have purchased lights had they been available in warmer tints. Many are saying that the thing that stopped them from buying 47s lights (myself included) was the cool tint/no hi CRI option. That’s literally the only thing that stopped me from buying their lights.

I’m sure someone will attack me saying “they had neutral and warm lights”, but they weren’t around consistently, and for every one light available with a neutral or warm tint, there are probably more than 10 lights that did not have that option.


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## Beamhead (Dec 28, 2017)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> I agree it will probably start with household lighting. Like the boxes of FEIT ELECTRIC light bulbs I bought at Costco that very proudly proclaims “SHOWS COLORS TRUE AND NATURAL 90+ CRI” in bold letters on the box.



You are correct, I just bought a 10 pack of T-8 bulbs that were rated neutral at 90 CRI, I get them installed and they are like 6500K, so we need to watch out for the "marketing" ploys.


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## 18650 (Dec 28, 2017)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> Someone I won’t name who didn’t mind sounding ignorant scoffed at the idea that the general public is starting to understand what CRI is. I agree it will probably start with household lighting. Like the boxes of FEIT ELECTRIC light bulbs I bought at Costco that very proudly proclaims “SHOWS COLORS TRUE AND NATURAL 90+ CRI” in bold letters on the box.


 The Walmart brand A19 bulbs I have in front of me don't have CRI printed anywhere on the box and the more recent A19 Philips bulbs found at Home Depot have CRI printed in two tiny digits on the bottom of the box (yes the side that sits on top of the shelf) while I have older Philips bulbs with the aluminum heatsink which have CRI printed nowhere yet I think these guys have no problem selling their wares. I highly doubt CRI or tint is what put 4Sevens out of business but maybe one of you guys could send David an email and ask him.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Dec 28, 2017)

Beamhead said:


> You are correct, I just bought a 10 pack of T-8 bulbs that were rated neutral at 90 CRI, I get them installed and they are like 6500K, so we need to watch out for the "marketing" ploys.



Well my bulbs said 2700K and they certainly deliver. I have noticed that any time I buy 2700K lightbulbs, they are always cooler than 2700K LEDs in flashlights. “Neutral” “cool” and “warm” are kinda arbitrary terms because without a number they kinda mean nothing. Some would call 5500K neutral, where I think of that as getting pretty cool. About as cool as I ever want to go. Some would call 4000K warm, where I think of 4000K as a nice slightly warm neutral.

Some here have bashed those of us who prefer warm lights as ugly yellow light. That’s an opinion. I don’t think sunlight is ugly light. I think direct sunlight is the nicest most pleasant light there is. I don’t recommend anyone stare at the sun, but I can’t help but notice that the sun is in fact yellow. Not white. The best light source I can imagine would mimic direct sunlight as closely as possible.

I’ll never understand “daylight” lights that are between 6000K and 7000K. That doesn’t look anything even remotely close to “daylight” to my eyes. Your results may vary.


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## bykfixer (Dec 28, 2017)

I think David picked a great time to step aside, even if only for a little while.

The market is a 32oz glass of water with a whole bunch of straws sucking out the contents. More straws are being inserted every day. So the market is being divided into smaller and smaller segments with each day. 

I have a feeling we haven't heard the last from David Chow.


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## Illumination (Dec 28, 2017)

*P*lease *K*now you will be missed. Good luck in your future endeavors.

I still use my first Quark as well as many others I bought from you.

Good luck.


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## StorminMatt (Dec 28, 2017)

recDNA said:


> One of the first with neutral and HCRI lights. Then he changed course. Said no more neutral and try to grab the tactical market. Ironically soon after he stopped producing neutral lights others started and so I switched.



I don’t think this is any coincidence. 47’s took a gamble and thought that people would choose lumens over CRI, and even posted a rather arrogant statement that basically told tint snobs to screw themselves. Meanwhile, everyone else and their dog started producing high CRI lights. Taking a hard stand against high CRI MAY have carried some weight back in the days when high CRI meant dim Nichia 219A lights that struggled to hit 200 lumens. But in the last year or two, higher powered high CRI emitters such as the Nichia 219C, XP-L2, and XHP50 have taken away pretty much ANY reason to put up with nasty cool whites. This has left cool white holdouts like 47’s in the dust. 47’s figured people wouldn’t care. They didn’t stop to think that the kinds of people who plunk down more than a few bucks for a light actually DO care. After all, even the most lumen crazy folks will choose high CRI if the sacrifice in lumens is unnoticeable.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Dec 28, 2017)

18650 said:


> The Walmart brand A19 bulbs I have in front of me don't have CRI printed anywhere on the box and the more recent A19 Philips bulbs found at Home Depot have CRI printed in two tiny digits on the bottom of the box (yes the side that sits on top of the shelf) while I have older Philips bulbs with the aluminum heatsink which have CRI printed nowhere yet I think these guys have no problem selling their wares. I highly doubt CRI or tint is what put 4Sevens out of business but maybe one of you guys could send David an email and ask him.



Those bulbs DO sell. To some. Most people will be MUCH more concerned with the TINT, the COLOR TEMPERATURE of the bulb than anything else. I think what you are missing is this: What if Wal Mart decided to stop carrying any household lighting bulbs that were any warmer than 6500K? It's not just about CRI. It's about the fact that the room has a completely different feel to it with "daylight" bulbs at 6500K. I know that I would be going to a different store to buy my light bulbs. I would buy them online or wherever I had to go to stay in the 2700-3200K range. I don't need or want my house to feel like an office or a prison.

Wal Mart doesn't talk about CRI on their bulbs because the CRI of those bulbs is not impressive. I'm willing to bet that you will never see a bulb that mentions CRI on the box if the CRI is low. For what I would have thought we're obvious reasons.


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## nbp (Dec 28, 2017)

Let’s try to drift back to 4-7s if we can. We have a separate subforum for household/fixed lighting. Thanks.


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## jag-engr (Jan 4, 2018)

StorminMatt said:


> 47’s took a gamble and thought that people would choose lumens over CRI, and even posted a rather arrogant statement that basically told tint snobs to screw themselves.


Actually, for some time, 4sevens and Zebralight were the only major flashlight producers giving warm-tint LEDs a shot. I don't remember who did it first, but both were early adapters.

David Chow was an industry leader in high-CRI lights. David helped bring the first batch of Nitecore Smart PD lights to fruition (back in 2008) and introduced the company to the American market. IIRC, the Smart PD lights were the first production light to offer a high-CRI LED - the Golden Dragon Plus emitters.



StorminMatt said:


> Meanwhile, everyone else and their dog started producing high CRI lights. ... But in the last year or two, higher powered high CRI emitters such as the Nichia 219C, XP-L2, and XHP50 have taken away pretty much ANY reason to put up with nasty cool whites.


Most of the manufacturers using warm-tinted LEDs today were not around when David pioneered warm and high-CRI LEDs. You have been a CPF member since 2014. I don't know how long you have followed the flashlight industry, but it has changed radically in the last couple of years. David was one of the lead innovators that changed it.


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## Got Lumens? (Jan 4, 2018)

jag-engr said:


> StorminMatt said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t think this is any coincidence. 47’s took a gamble and thought that people would choose lumens over CRI, and even posted a rather arrogant statement that basically told tint snobs to screw themselves
> ...


I would buy the 4 Sevens memoirs if it's ever written. There already is a Wikipedia and Flashapedia webpage for 4Sevens/Four Sevens Flashlights. With this closure, should there be a flashlight hall of fame?


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## leon2245 (Jan 5, 2018)

Goodnight, sweet prince.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 5, 2018)

jag-engr said:


> Actually, for some time, 4sevens and Zebralight were the only major flashlight producers giving warm-tint LEDs a shot. I don't remember who did it first, but both were early adapters.



Yes, and the two companies went in different directions: Zebralight has fully embraced neutral white tints, while 4sevens rejected them and went strictly cool-white.

Based on the final outcome, I'm thinking 4sevens made the wrong choice.


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## Eric242 (Jan 5, 2018)

What final outcome? David Chow sold his company. Reasons unknown. Maybe he was just bored by all this tint talk on CPF. We´ll see how Foursevens moves on in 2018.


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## markr6 (Jan 5, 2018)

I obviously throw a lot of fuel on the "tint talk" fire. But it can no longer be ignored...it has come such a long way in the past 5 years. Basically from nothing to everything. I'd hate to think someone closed shop because of some chatter here. I doubt that very much.

Good luck David! I never purchased any 4sevens lights, but no one can deny they were great lights. I knew they "made it" as a company when I saw all the Canadian border officers carrying them even before my CPF days.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 5, 2018)

Eric242 said:


> What final outcome? David Chow sold his company. Reasons unknown. Maybe he was just bored by all this tint talk on CPF. We´ll see how Foursevens moves on in 2018.



Well, a couple of days ago I dug out all my receipts for 4sevens lights, and threw them away. I figured that the 10-year warranty wasn't much good anymore.

Since 4sevens is no longer answering their phones anymore (as they indicated on their sales thread), it sure sounds like they've closed up shop for good. What customer support?

Did I throw away my receipts prematurely?

Hey, if they come back from the dead, *and* start to produce neutral or warm tints, I'll be happy about it!


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## Tixx (Jan 5, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yes, and the two companies went in different directions: Zebralight has fully embraced neutral white tints, while 4sevens rejected them and went strictly cool-white.
> 
> Based on the final outcome, I'm thinking 4sevens made the wrong choice.



Yeah, neutral + moonlight + instant access to moonlight from off was definitely in my opinion a winning combination. Probably though I've had more lights from these 2 companies more than any others.


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## jon_slider (Jan 5, 2018)

Eric242 said:


> What final outcome?



FourSevens is now Closed.

"We are Closing Down Four Sevens, and its assets will be purchased by someone in the Industry"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yit5lDno0M&feature=youtu.be&t=3m13s


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## Woods Walker (Jan 6, 2018)

Dang. 4/7 made both warm and NW tinted lights. I have several so it's not like Bigfoot. He has said multiple times on these forums the reason for not making more was they were poor sellers. He had no reason to lie near as I can tell. If they sold better odds are he would have made even more being he was selling flashlights.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 6, 2018)

Woods Walker said:


> Dang. 4/7 made both warm and NW tinted lights. I have several so it's not like Bigfoot.
> </quote>
> 
> Lol. I dunno... I've heard more stories about people seeing Bigfoot, than I have about 4sevens warm tints!
> ...



Yes, but IMO he never even tried to sell anything other than cool-white. The other tints were buried on the website, and not on all models (not the models I was interested in at the time). I think he made a decision to go after the mass-market, which cares more about total lumens than about tint. But his price-point was too high for the mass-market.

He should have stuck with fools like us who are willing to pay premium prices for a glowing stick. Zebralight has done fine with that approach.


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## kyhunter1 (Jan 6, 2018)

I liked the older quark tactical and pro’s. Bought several over the years. None of them will ever be for sale. Stopped buying over the tint issues and switching over to the click and smart models. If he would have made the original quark models in neutral xpl hi, I would have bought a several more. In the past you could get main line 4sevens lights in warms/neutrals from David. His business suffered when this stopped. Also, he refuse to revamp the quark design for 18650’s. His loss, Eagtac, Zebralight, and several others gain. When it comes to business practices, you make and sell what your customers want and are ready to buy, not what you want them to buy. I know a few others that vastly switched there product lines and need to understand this, but want mention them in this thread. David brought several innovations to the industry and I respect him for that.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 6, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yes, but IMO he never even tried to sell anything other than cool-white. The other tints were buried on the website, and not on all models (not the models I was interested in at the time). I think he made a decision to go after the mass-market, which cares more about total lumens than about tint. But his price-point was too high for the mass-market.
> 
> He should have stuck with fools like us who are willing to pay premium prices for a glowing stick. Zebralight has done fine with that approach.



I was around at the formation of 4/7 on these forums and clearly remember him trying to sell them. He made the lights and talked about them right here on CPF. In fact did more than most other manufactures IMHO around these parts in this regard. He was one of the first to offer warm tint in a production light. One of the first, if not the first to offer a low mode even lower than the D10 aka what we all now refer to as the moonlight mode in a production light. Initially I didn't like the idea but he was right. First production light to use the XP-G. What else was he supposed to do? Force people to buy NW and Warm lights at gun point? Also what IMHO finished 4/7's (as a company run by David) is well known to many around (again IMHO) here and it wasn't tint lovers not buying tints. Think about it like this. How can a company compete with one arm tied behind it's back? Everyone else didn't have such issues as he was the target for a company (who I also like) which sat on it's backside without a clue what do do as the XR-E burst into the scene starting the Cree revolution. They were totally clueless and I think someone needed to pay for that. Others were beyond reach so 4/7 was the low fruit on the vine (David if I am out of order let me know). An updated Quark Pro or Tactical would of sold nicely but that was not allowed. I mean David couldn't even make a 1XAA clicky light.... think about it brother.


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## Ozythemandias (Jan 6, 2018)

Plenty of the brands targeting mass market confirmed that CW is what sells. That’s no surprise here. 

WoodsWalker mind sharing what brand was the bully here? Does it start with an O and rhymes with might?


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 6, 2018)

Woods Walker said:


> Also what IMHO finished 4/7's (as a company run by David) is well known to many around (again IMHO) here and it wasn't tint lovers not buying tints. Think about it like this. How can a company compete with one arm tied behind it's back? Everyone else didn't have such issues as he was the target for a company (who I also like) which sat on it's backside without a clue what do do as the XR-E burst into the scene starting the Cree revolution. They were totally clueless and I think someone needed to pay for that. Others were beyond reach so 4/7 was the low fruit on the vine (David if I am out of order let me know). An updated Quark Pro or Tactical would of sold nicely but that was not allowed. I mean David couldn't even make a 1XAA clicky light.... think about it brother.



Yes, I remember that lawsuit. You're right, that was probably what did 4sevens in more than anything else. They had to change the Quarks so much, that they no longer were the great lights they originally were. David vs Goliath, and David got his *** kicked. After that, 4sevens seemed to struggle to design good lights. They had lots of gimmicks, but IMO not a good design.



Ozythemandias said:


> WoodsWalker mind sharing what brand was the bully here? Does it start with an O and rhymes with might?




No, it starts with "Sure" and rhymes with "fire".


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## wacbzz (Jan 6, 2018)

^So, all that just to make the claim that SF’s lawsuit caused the demise of 47’s?

Yeah, it certainly had nothing to do with the embracing of such mass crowd demanding and pleasing things like Bluetooth controlled flashlights, the CR2 batteries for life program, and the failed support of 18650 batteries when one was actively selling branded CR123 batteries. 

Really? I’ve been around just as long as you and seen all the CPFMarketplace threads and posts. I actively supported the use of neutral emitters in their lineup. I saw tons of support posts for WW and High CRI flashlights, but when they didn’t sell as well as anticipated _back then_, the company (obviously) moved on and never really went back to those options - with the exception of some neutral one-offs in the very recent past. 

I think it would be shortsighted to make the claim of a single reason why the company is now gone. There were probably many factors that we’ll never know about that contributed to this, but we do know with certainty that the companies now producing lights with warmer LEDs and High CRI emitters have become greater now than they ever were...


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## InvisibleFrodo (Jan 6, 2018)

Ozythemandias said:


> Plenty of the brands targeting mass market confirmed that CW is what sells. That’s no surprise here.
> 
> WoodsWalker mind sharing what brand was the bully here? Does it start with an O and rhymes with might?



I'm pretty sure it starts with an "S" and rhymes with "PureFire"

Seems to me that CW is "what sells" because 90% of the time CW is the only option. Go to any store. Not one flashlight available that isn't cool white. MagLite just released a line of lights that use warm tinted LEDs. I ordered a solitaire and am waiting for it in the mail. I would have never ordered a MagLite, but the warm tint option is just too tempting to pass up, and if it turns out good, I'll buy a MiniMag AAA and probably an XL50. Tint has become one of the most important factors for me.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 6, 2018)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> Seems to me that CW is "what sells" because 90% of the time CW is the only option. Go to any store. Not one flashlight available that isn't cool white.



So, don't go after the mass-market, unless you want to compete on price.



> MagLite just released a line of lights that use warm tinted LEDs. I ordered a solitaire and am waiting for it in the mail. I would have never ordered a MagLite, but the warm tint option is just too tempting to pass up, and if it turns out good, I'll buy a MiniMag AAA and probably an XL50. Tint has become one of the most important factors for me.



Well, yeah, but there are now so many other good brands that offer warm tints, and have been doing so for years. It's not like mag has suddenly invented the use of warm-white LEDs.

IMO, get a Convoy S2+ or C8 with a 7A tint LED. Only about $20. Closest yet I've seen to incandescent light. Very nice!


----------



## Woods Walker (Jan 6, 2018)

wacbzz said:


> ^So, all that just to make the claim that SF’s lawsuit caused the demise of 47’s?
> 
> Yeah, it certainly had nothing to do with the embracing of such mass crowd demanding and pleasing things like Bluetooth controlled flashlights, the CR2 batteries for life program, and the failed support of 18650 batteries when one was actively selling branded CR123 batteries.
> 
> ...



The titanic sank for many reasons beyond the singular event as the world is more complex than that. But call me crazy.... hitting a large chuck of ice didn't help matters.


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## wacbzz (Jan 6, 2018)

Woods Walker said:


> The titanic sank for many reasons beyond the singular event as the world is more complex than that. But call me crazy.... hitting a large chuck of ice didn't help matters.



Had the design of the ship been as good as was postulated to the world, the iceberg wouldn’t have mattered. 

Feel free to extrapolate as you will...


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## bykfixer (Jan 6, 2018)

Wait... SureFire sued foursevens? 
Was that round one of foursevens? 

Like I said before... Davids ideas were ahead of the curve. People just weren't ready for the inovations and the crowded market place for cheap lights is going to be the demise of other companies soon enough. 

I asked PK once why he didn't offer tint options when he started out his new company. He said "find me 100 people who will buy them and I'll make a batch". I did a 5 month poll of over 6000 viewers (outside of CPF) and got 11 votes for yes... ELEVEN.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 6, 2018)

wacbzz said:


> Had the design of the ship been as good as was postulated to the world, the iceberg wouldn’t have mattered.
> 
> Feel free to extrapolate as you will...



It was made of iron so not unsinkable. Such is the arrogance of humanity. Entropy is indifferent yet somehow punishes disrespect. LOL!


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## jabe1 (Jan 6, 2018)

Without David himself weighing in, its all conjecture.
We know about the surefire suit, and he mentioned that he spent a large amount of his budget trying to get a government contract.
Other than that, which may be enough, who knows?
A handful of enthusiasts buying neutral or warm led light probably wouldn't tip the scales.


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## Beamhead (Jan 6, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> Wait... SureFire sued foursevens?


Old CPFMP link about it, you might have to login?
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...laiming-patent-infringement&highlight=lawsuit

Just sayin but this thread is beyond


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## hiuintahs (Jan 6, 2018)

I think pre January 2012 was the peak for 4Sevens in my opinion. Then came the lawsuit and the brand change to Foursevens with web change that cost a lot of money. It just didn't seem the same after then. The lack of 18650 compatible lights is what lost my interest. Then there came lots of new companies, competition, new models by existing companies..........and I just think it was hard to compete.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 6, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> Wait... SureFire sued foursevens?
> Was that round one of foursevens?
> 
> Like I said before... Davids ideas were ahead of the curve. People just weren't ready for the inovations and the crowded market place for cheap lights is going to be the demise of other companies soon enough.
> ...



I think PK comes from a time when people wanted white light. They had enough of the crimson glow of the Incan on it's last legs. So when LEDs became practical people liked the white. But sometimes it's not white. Sometimes it is squid **** green or space alien abduction angry blue. I have no problem with CW and betting on lottery winning examples even the snobs would be happy. Some lights might be successful because of tint even if the consumer doesn't know why. The Luci solar lantern is a good example. They clearly thought about the tint. I just did a review on my channel of the ECEEN lantern. It has both CW and true warm. The warm looks so much better in person and that might help sell thier new product. It was enough for me to spend the 15 dollars. Will post a written review of the lantern on CPF once done with a long trip report for the outdoors adventure area of CPF. Odds are ZL or AT who both sell NW and CW versions of their product lines knows the sales ratios. I do believe David and PK on their impressions of the issue as relating to their own experiences. There is also a health movement against CW. I kid you not.... I am thinking about taking a CW, NW, W and maybe HCRI Malkoffs for a side by side comparison in the woods. Is here any real advantage during bad weather or other activities. I would just need a Nichia based M61/31 as have the rest.


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## bykfixer (Jan 6, 2018)

Yeah these days everybody says everything causes mental issues WW. My vegetarian siblings call me a carnivore because I like cheeseburgers... they've all _become_ gluten intolarant since becoming vegetarians so they eat a lot of eggs and fowl "because that's not meat" lol. So I won't be surprised when their curly fry (planet saving) light bulbs get replaced by warm LED's due to mental anguish caused by cool lights.

And yes PK said "way back then everybody said too yellow, want white, whiter, whitest because warm beams are no good" lol.

But now back to our regularly scheduled topic...
I'm curious how things will change (or not) when foursevens round 3 takes place under new management.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 6, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> Yeah these days everybody says everything causes mental issues WW. My vegetarian siblings call me a carnivore because I like cheeseburgers... they've all _become_ gluten intolarant since becoming vegetarians so they eat a lot of eggs and fowl "because that's not meat" lol. So I won't be surprised when their curly fry (planet saving) light bulbs get replaced by warm LED's due to mental anguish caused by cool lights.
> 
> And yes PK said "way back then everybody said too yellow, want white, whiter, whitest because warm beams are no good" lol.
> 
> ...



Wondering that myself. If I was new management and had the power to do so would base to company overseas or do whatever it took to free themselves from past issues. Also PK is spot on with the history. I remember all of that.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 7, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> I'm curious how things will change (or not) when foursevens round 3 takes place under new management.



What makes you think any of 4sevens will continue to exist? Even the brand name might disappear. They're selling off assets. That means manufacturing facilities and equipment. I don't think any of the staff is keeping their jobs, from what has been said in other threads.

Perhaps someone will buy the brand name, and use it. But it won't be 4sevens anymore. That might be a good thing, though, if they start to produce good useful lights again. But they could just as easily use a different brand name and do the same thing.

Maybe 4sevens has some patents worth buying, but who knows? Maybe Surefire will buy those patents!


----------



## Lou Minescence (Jan 7, 2018)

If Foursevens were to continue as it was with new ownership, I think they would like to get rid of the liability warrantying 10 years of flashlights produced.
The uniqueness of the LED flashlight is gone. Lots of manufacturers out there and prices are dropping. Companies are no longer making dollars on lights but percentages. 4 Sevens was in the right place at the right time.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 7, 2018)

Anyone know if this is a bankruptcy liquidation? If so, the warranties are useless. If not, I'm not sure how they could invalidate the old warranties, other than by the new owner simply saying "sue me".

From the announcements, it sure sounds like a bankruptcy.


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## tab665 (Jan 7, 2018)

there is a lot of false information about the LEDs foursevens was putting in thier lights. they actually switched to a slightly more neutral tint as well as having a CRI rating of 85 a couple years ago. look on http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?412026-4-FOURSEVENS-Quark-Smart-QSL-!/page4 the discussion about it begins around post #94. unfortunately that bit of information was lost on many because it wasn't pushed as a selling point. im just throwing this out there to end the "only cool/poor CRI" claims.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 7, 2018)

tab665 said:


> there is a lot of false information about the LEDs foursevens was putting in thier lights. they actually switched to a slightly more neutral tint as well as having a CRI rating of 85 a couple years ago. look on http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?412026-4-FOURSEVENS-Quark-Smart-QSL-!/page4 the discussion about it begins around post #94. unfortunately that bit of information was lost on many because it wasn't pushed as a selling point. im just throwing this out there to end the "only cool/poor CRI" claims.



The complaints I've heard were about 4sevens only offering cool-white tints. That thread doesn't dispute that. It's just 4sevens saying, "Yeah, but our cool whites are good CRI!"

Meh, they're still cool-white, even if they are 85 CRI.

I'd rather have a neutral-white at 75 CRI than a cool-white at 85 CRI. The neutral white will look better, and still be better at showing reds & yellows.

If anything, that thread shows that 4sevens really doesn't understand what flashaholics want, or even cares.


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## bykfixer (Jan 7, 2018)

The decision to halt foursevens goes waaaaaaaay beyond this postage stamp sized sample (called CPF) on the legal sized envelope called the market. 

An example would be SureFires new EDCL-2T. I received one on their 3rd shipment serial numbered 58xxx. About 6 CPFrs got one. That's about 6 outta 58000+ ordered....


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 7, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> The decision to halt foursevens goes waaaaaaaay beyond this postage stamp sized sample (called CPF) on the legal sized envelope called the market.
> 
> An example would be SureFires new EDCL-2T. I received one on their 3rd shipment serial numbered 58xxx. About 6 CPFrs got one. That's about 6 outta 58000+ ordered....



I know, we're not that big a deal when it comes to purchasing power. But, I think this and other flashaholic forums do have a lot good advice to give companies about design and features that are broadly desirable.

I know we're picking on tints a a lot, but I think it's indicative of some of the ways that we can (or should) influence companies to do better. 4sevens steadfastly refused to take our advice about offering better tints. That very likely did not sink them, as they were going after a different market. But, a lot of their design choices in the past couple of years were IMO not very good. They were offering designs that really didn't serve any market.

I think poor designs (and features such as tint) did sink them, along with possibly poor management (putting too much resources into chasing a government contract).

I think if companies offer good designs and features that flashaholics like, the wider market will like it too. The best designs are simple (for Joe Public), but also offer the features that we want.

If 4sevens wanted to stick with cool white so they could chase lumens, then they should have chased lumens. As it was, their models weren't the best performers anyway.


----------



## Bolek (Jan 7, 2018)

Do you know how to contact 47 ? I recived only one peaon as I paid for two


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## jon_slider (Jan 7, 2018)

Bolek said:


> Do you know how to contact 47 ? I recived only one peaon as I paid for two



their website has a Contact page that lists their email, phone, and also has a contact form...


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 7, 2018)

jon_slider said:


> their website has a Contact page that lists their email, phone, and also has a contact form...



I think he may be out of luck. According to the 4sevens page here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?441564-Final-FOURSEVENS-Announcement-for-2017

They're no longer taking voice calls, their inbox is full, etc. It doesn't sound like there's any more support available.

However, if he paid with Paypal, he can dispute part of the charge. Or his credit card may be able to do the same. If it's worth the hassle to bother.


----------



## jon_slider (Jan 7, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I think he may be out of luck.



I looked at the link, thanks.. it says:


scout24 said:


> Let's for five minutes or so allow fans of the brand to discuss and lament their closing their doors. If you have warranty or QC concerns, please call or email, not wee wee on the wake here. Damn, folks...
> 
> 866-465-7334 with questions 9-6 Eastern time, US. There is also a "click here to email" link, and a street address. I found this info without having to ask here...





4sevens said:


> We no longer have resources to take phone calls - they are going to voicemail.
> ...
> waiting on a military contract... burned up our R&d budget. What broke the camels back was when they said they wanted the ball to break windows, be waterproof and be make of metal with carbide inserts.




I called the number, it went to voicemail.. I have not tried their email addy, nor have I tried to PM


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## InvisibleFrodo (Jan 8, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Well, yeah, but there are now so many other good brands that offer warm tints, and have been doing so for years. It's not like mag has suddenly invented the use of warm-white LEDs.



No, MagLite certainly has not invented the use of warm white LEDs.

My point that I was trying to make is that I haven't purchased a MagLite in years. And I had no intention of buying any MagLites anytime soon. Because MagLite never offered any warm or neutral tinted LEDs. That is what stops me from purchasing one.

The same goes for Streamlight, SureFire, and FourSevens. All decent enough lights. But all having that one thing in common. Any flavor of white you want as long as it's cool white.

MagLite will never push them. They will treat them as a "specialty" light. When you go on MagLite's website, you won't even see those lights alongside the regular LED lights. They are hidden and buried on the site. Most people will never know the warm option exists, and they will not be very "popular" as a result. A story that sounds very familiar to the FourSevens story. The lights don't get pushed at all and go generally unknown.

What will sell is what is available and also what features manufacturers choose to advertise. If you only advertise how bright you are and you don't ever say how well you render colors, that's all people will know.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 8, 2018)

WDR65 said:


> I realize that the flashlight industry is quite cutthroat with designs being imitated almost as soon as they are released...


4Sevens has had a number of designs outright stolen from him by his own manufacturers. I've heard stories of workers gathering up the engineering drawings, walking across the street, and selling them to a competitor. Well, that's what you get for using Chinese manufacturers. Also probably the reason why their quality was a bit hit-and-miss.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 8, 2018)

OutdoorsIQ said:


> I’ll be sad to see them go, I remember when the QuarkSmart came out, I thought it was the most innovative new feature. I guess it just never took off.


The fact that he never released Android software no doubt hurt sales. Ignoring the most widely used mobile OS in the world was a poor business decision.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 8, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The only thing that shocks me every day: m*g is still in business!?!


Maglite is still in business because they make a quality product that is widely available at reasonable prices. Sure, the flashlight snobs at CPF turn their nose up at the brand, but we're not their primary market.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 8, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yes, but 4sevens never pushed their better tints. They buried them, so few people even knew about them. It's no wonder that 4sevens claimed they didn't sell and that cool white was the only thing worth producing.


I agree. You had to do some digging to figure out which lights were available in something other than cool white, and if you weren't a regular reader of CPF, you might not have even known to go looking!

"This product line we never advertised and made inordinately difficult to discover isn't selling!"

You don't say.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 8, 2018)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> Someone I won’t name who didn’t mind sounding ignorant scoffed at the idea that the general public is starting to understand what CRI is.
> 
> I agree it will probably start with household lighting. Like the boxes of FEIT ELECTRIC light bulbs I bought at Costco that very proudly proclaims “SHOWS COLORS TRUE AND NATURAL 90+ CRI” in bold letters on the box.


Yep... the household lighting industry gets it and is doing its part to educate consumers. The flashlight industry will follow eventually.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 8, 2018)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> Some here have bashed those of us who prefer warm lights as ugly yellow light. That’s an opinion. I don’t think sunlight is ugly light. I think direct sunlight is the nicest most pleasant light there is. I don’t recommend anyone stare at the sun, but I can’t help but notice that the sun is in fact yellow. Not white. The best light source I can imagine would mimic direct sunlight as closely as possible.


It depends on the time of day. Midday sunlight is in the cool end of the spectrum, around 6000K. It's considerably warmer in the early morning and late afternoon, particularly during the "golden hour", much valued by photographers for its warm, diffuse illumination. 

The thing about the sun is that it's full spectrum, so every color visible to the human eye is rendered accurately.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 8, 2018)

jabe1 said:


> Without David himself weighing in, its all conjecture.
> We know about the surefire suit, and he mentioned that he spent a large amount of his budget trying to get a government contract.
> Other than that, which may be enough, who knows?
> A handful of enthusiasts buying neutral or warm led light probably wouldn't tip the scales.


Reminds me of the exchange in Cameron's _Titanic_:

"This ship can't sink!"
"She's made of iron, sir. I assure you she can, and she will."


----------



## Woods Walker (Jan 8, 2018)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> Maglite is still in business because they make a quality product that is widely available at reasonable prices. Sure, the flashlight snobs at CPF turn their nose up at the brand, but we're not their primary market.



Yup. I think sometimes people forget these are tools. [email protected] lights like hammers for the most part do exactly what people expect.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 8, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Anyone know if this is a bankruptcy liquidation? If so, the warranties are useless. If not, I'm not sure how they could invalidate the old warranties, other than by the new owner simply saying "sue me".
> 
> From the announcements, it sure sounds like a bankruptcy.


It depends on the terms of the warranty. Most warranties have a clause saying that they can be altered or discontinued at any time without notice.


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## bykfixer (Jan 8, 2018)

Got Lumens? said:


> I would buy the 4 Sevens memoirs if it's ever written. There already is a Wikipedia and Flashapedia webpage for 4Sevens/Four Sevens Flashlights. With this closure, should there be a flashlight hall of fame?



I'd like to read that too. Like where did David get the idea for the company name, or at one point in life he said to himself "hey man, I think I'll make my own flashlights?" or that sort of inside his head thinking. 

I'm not a proponent or detractor of the foursevens products. For me personally I never got the foursevens bug as a collector like some. But I have great respect for what took place and ways it made the industry take notice. I watch the changes taking place from an outsiders perspective even though I also see things from the inside looking out.

David tried. He took huge risks that history shows didn't pan out like he'd hoped. I'm sure he could've invited investors in who have money long like train smoke. Yet those folks would've put money ahead of everything else, thereby tying up those creative ideas coming from the flashaholic mind of David Chow. 

Decades after the Tucker failed the big 3 were implimenting all kinds of the innovations that the Tucker had in it's inception. And I think history will show some of the foursevens approach as well.... but by then the industry and the market will have no idea who planted the seed, who watered the roots or who was the one who's blood got spilled busting through the wall. 

I own a couple of foursevens and to me they are niche lights. Fine for a given application. I totally understand the purpose of the given model. And as one looking outside in I gave away some to get reaction from the non flashaholic type. They all marvelled at them, yet each one had a "I like it but" comment. Not once did I hear "but I don't like the tint" or "but it's priced too high".... "but I only use rechargeables"....what I heard was "but I don't buy flashlights online" or "but where do I get batteries for it?" (meaning the 123 size)... "but, it's made in China"... things the general public in America relate to. 

Sure, David could've gone the way of Defiant, but instead he chose to stick to a principle he believed in and I for one salute him for that.

Best regards in your future David Chow. You made a positive difference.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 8, 2018)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> The fact that he never released Android software no doubt hurt sales.* Ignoring* the most widely used mobile OS in the world was a poor business *decision*.



David didn't ignore Android users, he planned to bring the software to market from the start, and how can you call it a decision unless you know why it never happened? 

~ Chance


----------



## bykfixer (Jan 8, 2018)

If foursevens and Nebo aligned.... 
Now that would be interesting...


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 8, 2018)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> Maglite is still in business because they make a quality product that is widely available at reasonable prices. Sure, the flashlight snobs at CPF turn their nose up at the brand, but we're not their primary market.



I think it must be a US thing. In Canada, mags are priced ridiculously high, and most stores have stopped carrying them. They're down to a niche brand, now. But, I get the appeal to non-flashaholics: they're simple and you generally know what you're getting. And, they work on alkalines, which is important to just about everyone except flashaholics.

I think mags probably sell much better in the US, probably because they're cheaper there, and probably because they have the "made in USA" appeal that obviously isn't much of a concern elsewhere.

I think 4sevens was trapped somewhere in the middle. They were a US company, but didn't make stuff in the US. And, they had high prices. A target of lawsuits by other US companies when 4sevens broke their patents, but also a target by foreign companies which could take their designs because they weren't patented overseas. It's a tough business.



the.Mtn.Man said:


> It depends on the terms of the warranty. Most warranties have a clause saying that they can be altered or discontinued at any time without notice.



Oh, well, that doesn't sound like much of a warranty. :thinking:


----------



## Woods Walker (Jan 8, 2018)

Conspiracy is often used to fill void left behind by the lack of facts. For example why the mystery as to the reboot? The mystery entity etc etc. Seems this information under normal circumstances would want to be put out there ASAP like during the initial announcement. But no..... I felt years ago during after the settlement the company would have been better off going oversea and doing whatever it took to be like Fenix and Nitecore. Beyond the reach of...... well that's another topic. The conspiracy fun loving person in me somehow hopes that's the case here. Then again maybe I just want a true updated Quark that hasn't been either neutered aka forced to become the Click or made dumber in ways which matter to me by being forced to become Smart.


----------



## LightObsession (Jan 8, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> If foursevens and Nebo aligned....
> Now that would be interesting...



Foursevens would be on the losing end of that deal if all of their lights started on high and had to cycle through blinky modes, like many Nebo models do. I hate that UI.


----------



## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 8, 2018)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> David didn't ignore Android users, he planned to bring the software to market from the start, and how can you call it a decision unless you know why it never happened?


The fact that they didn't support Android from day one was a bad move and likely kept a lot of people from buying the flashlight while they waited for promised software that never materialized.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 8, 2018)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> The fact that they didn't support Android from day one was a bad move and likely kept a lot of people from buying the flashlight while they waited for promised software that never materialized.



You didn't answer my question.  

~ Chance


----------



## Swordforthelord (Jan 8, 2018)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> David didn't ignore Android users, he planned to bring the software to market from the start, and how can you call it a decision unless you know why it never happened?
> 
> ~ Chance


There's not much mystery why it never happened: the QSL, while a great, innovative idea, was too ambitious for FourSevens; especially since, as David has stated, pursuing military contracts bled their R&D budget dry.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 8, 2018)

Swordforthelord said:


> There's not much mystery why it never happened: the QSL, while a great, innovative idea, was too ambitious for FourSevens; especially since, as David has stated, pursuing military contracts bled their R&D budget dry.



Do you have timeline factual information from the last two years of Foursevens inner-workings to bolster your hypothesis? 

~ Chance


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 8, 2018)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> The fact that they didn't support Android from day one was a bad move and likely kept a lot of people from buying the flashlight while they waited for promised software that never materialized.



Well, for me personally, it was that kind of design where 4sevens went very very wrong. I never would have bought such a light, regardless of what smartphone it supported. I don't want a flashlight that connects to my phone! I want a stand-alone light, that I can program by itself. They had other weird designs. All very innovative, sure, but completely missed the point of a flashlight. Which was odd, because 3 or 4 years ago they produce really good designs.

Maybe they thought they could capture the Millennial demographic by bluetoothing everything to your phone. But I bet most of the Millennials don't use a real flashlight... they use the flashlight app on their phone.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 8, 2018)

215 posts into this thread and I think it's time to remind members that no one here has any idea why David Chow sold his company. In the video he stated there were many reasons why and that was all he said. Why all the conjecture people? Why not have a little self-control and patience? 

~ Chance


----------



## Swordforthelord (Jan 8, 2018)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Do you have timeline factual information from the last two years of Foursevens inner-workings to bolster your hypothesis?
> 
> ~ Chance


What I do not have is a compulsive need to defend them.
I loved 47's, I have over a dozen of their lights. Now I realize that's nothing compared to your collection, and perhaps you have more information than the rest of us. If so, please share it. I'm doing nothing more or less than anyone else; making conjectures based on widely available information. In my OPINION, anyone who produces a light with the battery fitment issues and fickle performance of the QSL, coupled with a promised app that never materialized after two years of waiting clearly bit off more than they could chew.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 8, 2018)

Perhaps it would be prudent to not make this discussion personal. Mm-k? 

~ Chance


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## bykfixer (Jan 8, 2018)

I'll add that the following is not conjecture...

When foursevens was open there were lively debates.
Now it's closed... still lively debates.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 8, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> I'll add that the following is not conjecture...
> 
> When foursevens was open there were lively debates.
> Now it's closed... still lively debates.



:thumbsup:

Actually, the forums were kind of quiet about 4sevens over the past couple of years. Them shutting down seems to have drawn a lot of interest!

Frankly, conjecture is kind of fun. We could wait silently for real information, but we'd probably wait forever.


----------



## Swordforthelord (Jan 8, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Actually, the forums were kind of quiet about 4sevens over the past couple of years. Them shutting down seems to have drawn a lot of interest!
> 
> Frankly, conjecture is kind of fun. We could wait silently for real information, but we'd probably wait forever.



No, no, no, conjecture is only fun when it paints 4Sevens in a completely positive light. Otherwise, people get cranky... :twothumbs


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## bykfixer (Jan 8, 2018)

I was in one about a year ago... I even got a PM from David about it...

I printed it out and stuck it my flashlight memorabilia


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## Fireclaw18 (Jan 8, 2018)

It's a shame 4Sevens is shutting down. They used to put out some really nice innovative lights.

However, I did notice that their new offerings seemed pretty sparse the last few years. It's been years since I bought a 4Sevens light.


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## nbp (Jan 8, 2018)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Perhaps it would be prudent to not make this discussion personal. Mm-k?
> 
> ~ Chance



No one is breaking any rules here - just discussing opinions of a now dead brand and their products. People are welcome to share their opinions, politely, which it seems they are doing. Carry on.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 8, 2018)

nbp said:


> No one is breaking any rules here - just discussing opinions of a now dead brand and their products. People are welcome to share their opinions, politely, which it seems they are doing. Carry on.


 
It escapes me as to why you've quoted me in the above post, and why you don't recognize Swordforthelord posting that I have a compulsive need to defend Foursevens as crossing the line of rule number 4. 

~ Chance


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## Beamhead (Jan 8, 2018)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> It escapes me as to why you've quoted me in the above post, and why you don't recognize Swordforthelord posting that I have a compulsive need to defend Foursevens as crossing the line of rule number 4.
> 
> ~ Chance


Let it go CG  I am not going to participate in this speculative adventure that IMHO is borderline bashing by some that never liked the products for whatever reason. David is not stupid and if he felt the need to he would say something, but he is demonstrating the class that I know of. So sit back have a cold one and hang in your pics and questions thread. 

47's Fanboi and proud of it.


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## nbp (Jan 8, 2018)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> It escapes me as to why you've quoted me in the above post, and why you don't recognize Swordforthelord posting that I have a compulsive need to defend Foursevens as crossing the line of rule number 4.
> 
> ~ Chance



Yes, but only after you poked at several members for their opinions. Just let people talk, Chance. Everyone knows you are a fan of the brand and that is great. But you don't have to scold them for speculating as to why 4Sevens closed down. If you can post your thoughts, they can too, without being browbeaten, on this open forum. Make sense? This thread has been pretty civil to be honest. If it's too much to handle, I don't know what to tell you, brother.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 8, 2018)

Beamhead and nbp, 

Thank you for your thoughts. 

Members, 

I really didn't consider my questions as browbeating or poking fellow members, also I don't remember defending David anywhere in this thread. Nevertheless, I'm going to take the advise and counsel of Beamhead and nbp. 

To show there's no hard feelings I'll share my new, Christmas lights with y'all. Sorry for the crappy picture. 

~ Chance 
aka Foursevens Fan Boy


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## nbp (Jan 8, 2018)

I wasn't trying to offend you either Chance - just wanted everyone to feel they could discuss openly. And to be fair, the things people didn't like about the brand is sorta relevant here I think as taken together they could paint a picture of why things didn't work out. That's just my two pennies.


Anyways, did you really get all those just this holiday season?!


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 8, 2018)

nbp said:


> Anyways, did you really get all those just this holiday season?!



 Yes, all but the 360. It was a warranty replacement that came with the rest. On the first day of Christmas ...... 12 lights. One for each day of Christmas. 

I happened on the NIB 4Sevens Quark AA on eBay. The rest were offerings from the closing sale, except the two stainless steel "Good Bye" Mini MKII's.

~ Chance


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## nbp (Jan 8, 2018)

Maybe it’s for the best they stopped producing lights - soon you’d have to break it to Mrs. Gardiner that there was no more money in the “date night” jar. Lol.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 9, 2018)

She's aware. 

~ Cg is


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 9, 2018)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


>


Looking at this picture makes me think that 47's never really settled into its niche. They started out making solid, general purpose lights that appealed to both flashlight nerds and mere mortals, then they tried their hand at the high-end tactical and law enforcement market with limited success, then finally they went hard after the gimmick market with things like bolt-action switches and flashlights that could be programmed with your cell phone. It's hard to build and maintain a brand when you're all over the place like that.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 9, 2018)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> Looking at this picture makes me think that 47's never really settled into its niche. They started out making solid, general purpose lights that appealed to both flashlight nerds and mere mortals, then they tried their hand at the high-end tactical and law enforcement market with limited success, then finally they went hard after the gimmick market with things like bolt-action switches and flashlights that could be programmed with your cell phone. It's hard to be build and maintain a brand when you're all over the place like that.



Indeed. Did they lose their original designer a couple of years ago, or replace him/her, or something like that? I understand the SF lawsuit kind of ruined the Quarks, but that couldn't have been the cause of all their other odd design decisions. (BTW, don't forget CR2 batteries in your list!)

Was David the designer for the company the entire time? If so, I wonder why the sudden shift? Maybe he got so P.O.'d at people on this forum annoying him about neutral/warm tints, that he decided, "Ha! I'll show you! You thought cool-white was bad, well take a look at this! :devil:"


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## tab665 (Jan 9, 2018)

dude, again with the cool white? I already provided a link where they went more neutral across the board.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 9, 2018)

tab665 said:


> dude, again with the cool white? I already provided a link where they went more neutral across the board.



Yes, but I think you (or more correctly, 4sevens), doesn't understand what "neutral" means to most people. When I say "neutral white", I'm referring to the color temperature (or more correctly CCT) of the light. That is, something in the 4000K - 5000K range.

What 4sevens claimed, was because their cool-white LEDs have a higher CRI than most other cool-white LEDs, that somehow means neutral. It doesn't. Higher CRI is great, but it isn't a substitute for a neutral tint.

I think it's an example of why 4sevens lost touch with flashlight enthusiasts, or perhaps just didn't understand what some of us wanted. Okay, to be fair, they probably did know very clearly, they just didn't care because we weren't their primary market. Based on the outcome, maybe they should have had a clearer mandate about what market they were trying to capture.

For most of their history, they seemed to have a good grasp on their market. They lost the vision 2 or 3 years ago.

Or, maybe your post isn't the one I'm thinking of. If not, sorry for the OT.


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## 18650 (Jan 9, 2018)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> 215 posts into this thread and I think it's time to remind members that no one here has any idea why David Chow sold his company. In the video he stated there were many reasons why and that was all he said. Why all the conjecture people? Why not have a little self-control and patience? ~ Chance


 There's a loud contingent who just wants it to be true that it was the tint lords who decided his fate. BTW I suggest trying out the 5700K Nichia's with R9050 ratings for one of the previous participants in this thread. Far better than any warm LED I've tried...


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## bykfixer (Jan 9, 2018)

Unsubscribed...


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 9, 2018)

18650 said:


> There's a loud contingent who just wants it to be true that it was the tint lords who decided his fate. BTW I suggest trying out the 5700K Nichia's with R9050 ratings for one of the previous participants in this thread. Far better than any warm LED I've tried...



Yes, high CRI "cool white" is very nice, especially in certain applications. It's very much like daylight. I'm not suggesting that it isn't a good choice. In fact, even regular cool-white can be a good choice, and I have plenty that I like. (It's really only > 6500K that I hate.) It absolutely has a place, and I wouldn't like it if a company decided _not_ to offer cool white.

As for the tint lords deciding companies' fates? Hey, that would be impressive! But I'm under no illusion that we had anything to do with it.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 10, 2018)

I have a pile of 4/7s lights and frankly can't tell their CW from another CW. Like most LEDs the tint lottery was in force. Some are better than others but they kinda all do the same thing. I turn the light on and presto. Just like that I can see in the dark.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 10, 2018)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> Looking at this picture makes me think that 47's never really settled into its niche. They started out making solid, general purpose lights that appealed to both flashlight nerds and mere mortals, then they tried their hand at the high-end tactical and law enforcement market with limited success, then finally they went hard after the gimmick market with things like bolt-action switches and flashlights that could be programmed with your cell phone. It's hard to be build and maintain a brand when you're all over the place like that.



Someone could show a similar picture of Fenix lights. They're also "all over the place". The same applies to Nitecore. I think 4/7s most popular light was the mini but they made other things beyond just a small pocket EDC lights.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 10, 2018)

Woods Walker said:


> I think 4/7s most popular light was the mini but they made other things beyond just a small pocket EDC lights.



Really? I never liked the 4sevens twisties, as I always found them very temper-mental. Small, though, so I guess that was their appeal.

Personally, I liked their old Quarks. I always figured those would be their best sellers.


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## Swordforthelord (Jan 10, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Really? I never liked the 4sevens twisties, as I always found them very temper-mental. Small, though, so I guess that was their appeal.
> 
> Personally, I liked their old Quarks. I always figured those would be their best sellers.


I don't prefer twisties in general but I like my old Mini AA2 and I love my Mini MA. Both have very easy and reliable one-handed operation. I could never get into the Mark II's; the lithium ion support, the increased output and even the clips were welcome but I really dislike memory mode without shortcuts and shortcuts are harder to achieve with mechanical switches.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 10, 2018)

Woods Walker said:


> Someone could show a similar picture of Fenix lights. They're also "all over the place". The same applies to Nitecore. I think 4/7s most popular light was the mini but they made other things beyond just a small pocket EDC lights.


I owned one Nitecore light. I've never been tempted to buy another.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 10, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Really? I never liked the 4sevens twisties, as I always found them very temper-mental. Small, though, so I guess that was their appeal.
> 
> Personally, I liked their old Quarks. I always figured those would be their best sellers.


"Temperamental" is a very good description of the 47 twisties. They had to be carefully maintained or they were a royal pain in the rear. I had a stainless steel Preon Revo that I carried as a backup for many years, and I thought it was a wonderful little light. The only reason I don't own it anymore is because it was lost when my suitcase ripped open on a flight. The Revo had been long discontinued by that point, so I bought a AAA LED Maglite as a replacement.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 10, 2018)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> I owned one Nitecore light. I've never been tempted to buy another.



The point wasn't the brands rather stating the fact most of these companies have a deep bench. In some ways I though the "Foursevens collection" as David called it product line wasn't deep enough. I think some of that came from artificial restrictions which other manufactures like Fenix or Nitecore didn't have to deal with. Kinda to opposite of your impression.

edit. 

As for Nitecore IMHO some of their stuff is really good...others not so much.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 10, 2018)

Name calling is off topic. I am going to delete all the posts relating to it. It's actually embarrassing I have gotta do this.


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## LGT (Jan 10, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Really? I never liked the 4sevens twisties, as I always found them very temper-mental. Small, though, so I guess that was their appeal.
> 
> Personally, I liked their old Quarks. I always figured those would be their best sellers.


The only two of about six 47 lights that I’ve owned and still use are a cool white and a high cri mini, the rest were abysmal.
Lucky I guess, but my two twisties have always performed flawlessly.


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## rookiedaddy (Jan 10, 2018)

Because of this thread... I get to relive some fond memories... more than 3000 days ago, David Chow share his passion in this 4Sevens light...












Awesome Neutral Tint! I like it so much that I own 2. This is a user and another is kept in pristine condition. :kiss:


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## recDNA (Jan 10, 2018)

rookiedaddy said:


> Because of this thread... I get to relive some fond memories... more than 3000 days ago, David Chow share his passion in this 4Sevens light...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have one also. Great light. Gets constant use in bathroom.


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 10, 2018)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> ...I had a stainless steel Preon Revo that I carried as a backup for many years, and I thought it was a wonderful little light....



I had a stainless Preon REVO with a neutral white emitter. It was about the most perfect tint I have ever had. And about the most perfect AAA unit that I have ever encountered. Selling that was really, really hard (Sob!) but I was not using it enough and I needed the money.

Like the Titanium Quarks, that SS NW REVO was just a classic light. Is a '65 Mustang ever going to stop being a classic car? No. Some (not all) of the 4/7s lights were like that.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 11, 2018)

rookiedaddy said:


> Because of this thread... I get to relive some fond memories... more than 3000 days ago, David Chow share his passion in this 4Sevens light...
> 
> Awesome Neutral Tint! I like it so much that I own 2. This is a user and another is kept in pristine condition. :kiss:



Here's a great thread if you want to relive some fond 4Sevens and Foursevens memories. - #1 

~ Chance


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## tab665 (Jan 11, 2018)

Woods Walker said:


> Name calling is off topic. I am going to delete all the posts relating to it. It's actually embarrassing I have gotta do this.


my bad for being one of the posts that had to be deleted. didnt realize that is what was going on and thought there was a real person named that.


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## rookiedaddy (Jan 11, 2018)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Here's a great thread if you want to relive some fond 4Sevens and Foursevens memories. - #1


Thanks for the heads-up Chance. Nice thread.

My user Turbo, with diffuser installed. Another one is in storage to maintain its pristine condition...





One of my Preon ReVO, too cute to carry...





My one and only Preon Ti Blk...





My Primary CR123A battery tester, Mini 123 Warm


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 11, 2018)

rookiedaddy, Those are some great, whimsical, pictures. Hope to see you on the other side. 

~ Chance


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## Swordforthelord (Jan 11, 2018)

rookiedaddy said:


> My user Turbo, with diffuser installed. Another one is in storage to maintain its pristine condition...



I love my Turbo, it's one of the best physically proportioned lights I own. The much larger Turbo X heads always make the light look so much more ungainly by comparison.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 11, 2018)

Ungainly! I resemble that remark. 

~ Cg


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## Swordforthelord (Jan 11, 2018)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Ungainly! I resemble that remark. [emoji14]
> 
> ~ Cg


To the extreme!
Maybe if dedomed/domeless LED's had been around at the time a smaller head could have been used without sacrificing throw.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 11, 2018)

Swordforthelord said:


> ... Maybe if dedomed/domeless LED's had been around at the time a smaller head could have been used without sacrificing throw.



Isn't it a wonderful time to be a flashaholic! :twothumbs 

Goldilocks and the Three Flashlights. 






The Maelstrom Regen MMR-X 
1 to 800 Lumens 
Micro-USB Charging 
18650 Fueled 
Five User Interfaces 

Available in any color you want.... as long as it's Black, Blue or Brass.  






~ Chance


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## LightObsession (Jan 11, 2018)

My only FourSevens light is one of the original Preon P2 in gold. The tint was a bit toward the green side.

The twisties and the Quarks never appealed to me. I've never bought a light solely on it's appearance or uniqueness - function was always highest priority.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 11, 2018)

LightObsession said:


> My only FourSevens light is one of the original Preon P2 in gold. The tint was a bit toward the green side.
> 
> The twisties and the Quarks never appealed to me.* I've never bought a light solely on it's appearance or uniqueness *- function was always highest priority.



Never in 14 years?! It's time to turn in your Flashaholic badge. :nana: 

~ Chance


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## divine (Jan 13, 2018)

I always thought when the Preons came out, that his "smooth anodizing that is able to give you grip" was pretty nice. I'm not too sure if the latest Preons that I have are using that feature, they feel slippery.


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## Swordforthelord (Jan 13, 2018)

divine said:


> I always thought when the Preons came out, that his "smooth anodizing that is able to give you grip" was pretty nice. I'm not too sure if the latest Preons that I have are using that feature, they feel slippery.


I liked it but it still wasn't enough grip to operate the light as a twisty one handed (not for me at least)


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 13, 2018)

IMO, the original Preons (two on the left) were a bit slippery. The new Preons had a machined relief, making them easier to purchase. 

Installing clicky tail-caps on the first-run Preons made them one hand operational.

~ Chance 






Here's a little better picture of the machining.


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## Nimitz68 (Jan 14, 2018)

Wow, I completely missed the boat on these flashlights. I have never owned one, but they look very nice. Great lights, everyone!


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## BigD64 (Jan 17, 2018)

Very sad, 47's have been some of my favorite lights for years, my main EDC is a Quark 123 Turbo, with a Stainless Fenix LD01 as backup. I have 40 or so 47's lights and met with David Chow about 10 years ago when the brand was very new. He was very interested in hearing what customers had to say. I have a lot of lights the majority are Surefire, Fenix and FourSevens, while I never got an Atom, I have most of 47's other light up to the MMU-18. Never had any issues with any of their lights. (well the MMU-18 was a little finicky unless it had new batteries in it.) They never let me down and were very reasonably priced. I bought several of his blue tooth lights on closeout. Does anyone have any idea if the app will be developed for android. I have it on my iphone but would like to gift some to android users.


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## jon_slider (Jan 17, 2018)

BigD64 said:


> android.



no, the company is out of business


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## Outdoorsman5 (Jan 17, 2018)

Hopefully David will be back with 5Sevens or maybe even 6 of em! Still REALLY love my Quark Turbo QB2A!! It's my favorite 2xAA throwy light, and still in use often (sits next to my back door)!! My draw full of other Quarks still get the occasional use. Long live David Chow!!


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## Imon (Jan 17, 2018)

Wow, sad to hear it.
I used to use a twisty mini as my back-up light.

I'm glad I got a Quark RGB too before they were discontinued. They're honestly pretty pointless and the UI is clumsy but they're fun to play around with.


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## Outdoorsman5 (Jan 17, 2018)

Imon said:


> Wow, sad to hear it.
> I used to use a twisty mini as my back-up light.
> 
> I'm glad I got a Quark RGB too before they were discontinued. They're honestly pretty pointless and the UI is clumsy but they're fun to play around with.



I always wanted an RGB, and still don't know why I want(ed) one. Oh well.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 17, 2018)

Perhaps it'd be helpful to bump David Chow's video. *The information concerning the new owner of Foursevens* starts at the three minute mark.

~ Chance 



jon_slider said:


>


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## royjohnson77 (Jan 17, 2018)

Is the new Foursevens lights going to be made by Olight? If yes, how is Foursevens going to take over Olight Batons?

The relations will not last long with Olight as I see there would be a conflict of interest whereby they are competitors.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 17, 2018)

BigD64 said:


> Very sad, 47's have been some of my favorite lights for years, my main EDC is a Quark 123 Turbo, with a Stainless Fenix LD01 as backup. I have 40 or so 47's lights and met with David Chow about 10 years ago when the brand was very new. He was very interested in hearing what customers had to say. I have a lot of lights the majority are Surefire, Fenix and FourSevens, while I never got an Atom, I have most of 47's other light up to the MMU-18. Never had any issues with any of their lights. (well the MMU-18 was a little finicky unless it had new batteries in it.) They never let me down and were very reasonably priced. I bought several of his blue tooth lights on closeout.
> 
> *Does anyone have any idea if the app will be developed for android.
> *
> I have it on my iphone but would like to gift some to android users.



Given what David Chow conveyed in his farewell video, it's entirely possible the new owner of Foursevens will indeed develop an app for android users. With that being stated, the answer to your question is, No. No one posting here has any idea if an app will, or won't be developed for android users. 

~ Chance


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Jan 17, 2018)

royjohnson77 said:


> Is the new Foursevens lights going to be made by Olight? If yes, how is Foursevens going to take over Olight Batons?
> 
> The relations will not last long with Olight as I see there would be a conflict of interest whereby they are competitors.



I have not seen answers, other than what David said in his video. As far as a concern about conflict of interest I believe someone previously mentioned that David is on the Board of Directors of Olight. Any one able to confirm this?


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## chillinn (Jan 17, 2018)

Crazyeddiethefirst said:


> I have not seen answers, other than what David said in his video. As far as a concern about conflict of interest I believe someone previously mentioned that David is on the Board of Directors of Olight. Any one able to confirm this?



Apparently, he's the chairman.



bykfixer said:


>


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## Woods Walker (Jan 17, 2018)

I don't see that post on his time line.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 18, 2018)

wacbzz said:


> Did you see the actual photo of the post? I wonder if it was a case of posting before thinking and then trying to remove it? I know I’ve done that plenty of times 



No all I seen was the image on Imgur. That does not constitute proof of anything IMO. That however is not saying I am accusing anyone of lying. Just saying I have yet to see proof of anything.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 18, 2018)

3:59 "As to the reason why, I will save for another time. Ah, really there is enough I could talk about to write a book. 
- David Chow 

Taking David at his word, I don't think the above quoted imgur post nearly begins to tell the story of why he left the lighting industry. Also, such a snippet of information doesn't seem to be in accordance with David Chow's style. 

~ Chance


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## 4sevens (Jan 18, 2018)

Well I'd better step in here before this gets out of hand. Firstly, I don't know who royjohnson77 is and I don't have someone with that name in my facebook friends list but whoever he is he's in my list and to share something only to a list of online friends and not to the public is kind of rude - he didn't notice or didn't intend to but still it was rude. I didn't intent that conversation to be aired out in public. So please pull that screen shot roy or whoever you are please.

Secondly I did post that statement and I stand by it BUT I NEVER said Olight forced the closure of Foursevens. If you read my statement again I said the partnership deteriorated and it was the deteriorated partnership that forced the closure of foursevens. There is a difference. A significant difference. So please don't misquote me and spread false rumors. Thanks


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## archimedes (Jan 18, 2018)

Is now a good time to remind everyone of *Rule 12* ... ?

_
*Reposting Private Communications*

It is not appropriate for any member of CandlePowerForums to post and/or quote in the open forums any part of a private communication that is authored by someone other than themselves. This includes, but is not limited to, emails and private messages. Private communications, for these purposes defined as anything that is not originally posted in the open forums, are just that - private. The author has a reasonable expectation of it remaining so. CandlePowerForums honors and respects that and unless there are certain exigent circumstances (determined by a member of the CPF staff), you will be asked to remove the material in question and/or it will be removed for you by a member of the CPF staff. Depending on the severity and/or repetitiveness of the offense, posting privileges can be removed temporarily or permanently._

Yes, social media accounts *not accessible to the general public* are considered *private*


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## wacbzz (Jan 18, 2018)

In the end, semantics wins the day.


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## Greta (Jan 18, 2018)

I have removed a bunch of posts from this thread citing Rule #12. 

This thread has gone on long enough and required too much of our attention.

The facts are out there... straight from the horse's mouth, as it were. 

This is done. Thread closed.


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## nbp (Jan 24, 2018)

For any who were following this thread, you can find the most current, accurate info here in this thread in the FourSevens forum.


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