# Proper Flashlight Etiquette for Approaching a Stranger in the Dark



## mikedeason (Dec 14, 2011)

Hello, being new to these super powerful LED's and being one of the first adaptors in my area, I am finding that when encountering others while walking at night, I always get an unfriendly response.

If I see someone approaching, I will first move the hotspot far away from the person, then click to highest lumens or medium depending on their distance (800 or 300 lumens), then very briefly (less than a second) put the hotspot somewhere near them (not in the eyes) to try and dicern if they are a threat.

If I am uncertain as to their threat level, I will ramp to highest lumens and keep just the edge of the spill on that person as I pass. If I am confidant that they are not a threat, I will set at medium (300 lumens) and pass them with the beam pointing upwards.


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## aimxplode (Dec 14, 2011)

What light are you using?


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## mikedeason (Dec 14, 2011)

Usually Fenix TK35 and wearing a ZebraLight H600 headlamp (which I always flip so it points straight up)


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## AaronG (Dec 14, 2011)

If you consider it the other way it does seem irritating. 100 lumens seems like a lot in a place with a lot of foot traffic. Unless your a cop looking for a suspect I would use a light for my personal path and not use it to light up others at all. Also I would use a much lower setting.


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## ddac (Dec 14, 2011)

mikedeason said:


> Hello, being new to these super powerful LED's and being one of the first adaptors in my area...


where's your area?


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## michman (Dec 14, 2011)

I agree with AaronG. Drop down to a a low level, 20 - 30 lumen for instance. Otherwise it is just an irritation to those who are on coming. You may be creating a threat for yourself with such high power.


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## mikedeason (Dec 14, 2011)

Hi, Im in Toronto Canada.

Its a big city so lots of scum lurking about at night and I walk in the cities largest green space.

In the areas of the park that I walk, I will encounter mabe 5-10 people per 2 hr walk.

and I need the lumens to keep track of my dogs.


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## AaronG (Dec 14, 2011)

I can see why you'd want the high power then. I would still try to keep to my personal path though and not light up others. If a person does seem like they're rushing you or something you could always give them full power in the face. For the most part though doing something that bothers people could actually prevoke aggresive behavior.

Keep in mind a flashlight won't protect you, at most it'll give you a second. If crime is a very real threat I would walk somewhere else.


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## troika (Dec 14, 2011)

I put a blinky on my dog if it's dark enough and I'm out late enough. 

From a tactical standpoint, there is another approach. Those lumen are compromising your night vision too. If you keep it low, it actually helps you to see better and doesn't agitate someone who might not have been a threat. If it turns out they are, a turbo mode flash out of no where is going to be more impactful than getting them used to looking away from the medium mode and then trying to take it up a notch. 

From their perspective, if they're a average citizen out for a walk, worried about the same things you are, having a stranger approach them and blind them with the harnessed power of the sun makes them wonder if you are a threat and could put them on offense.

Just my thoughts. It is a dance, I've wondered the same things.


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## mikedeason (Dec 15, 2011)

Thanks for the responses.

I have to put my safety and the safety of my dogs before the slight irritation my lights may cause so ramping down to 100 lumens is not really an option. I really dont think anyone will attack me with an 800 lumen light and 500 lumen headlight blazing. 

I am going to make a more concerted effort, however, to keep the light direction out of peoples vision. When I first got these light I didnt really realize how bright they appeared when you are approaching someone who is carrying this many lumens.


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## fisk-king (Dec 15, 2011)

AaronG said:


> I can see why you'd want the high power then. I would still try to keep to my personal path though and not light up others. If a person does seem like they're rushing you or something you could always give them full power in the face. For the most part though doing something that bothers people could actually prevoke aggresive behavior.
> 
> Keep in mind a flashlight won't protect you, at most it'll give you a second. If crime is a very real threat I would walk somewhere else.



I totally agree with the statement above. After reading OP's post I pictured someone walking down a neighborhood sidewalk blasting pedestrians with 500lumens and passing by them saying "Hello:wave:" .

Seriously, if you live in a bad neighborhood I can see why you would need the extra lumens plus other "edc" items as well.


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## mikedeason (Dec 15, 2011)

Valid points, however, I feel I have less chance of being assaulted with more light than less.

While more may irritate, it also will likely deter.

Initially I thought that keeping the hotspot out of other peoples eyes was enough, however after having my wife walk towards me with the light blazing, I realize that I may have to do more to ensure that I am not encroaching on innocent peoples comfort.


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## Robin24k (Dec 15, 2011)

I feel the same way. Even in a good neighborhood where there are many couples who go for a walk after dinner, there are still some who are up to no good. Usually in these types of places, I keep a mid-sized flashlight at hand and only turn it on when there is no street lighting.

When in a more questionable area, I will always have my primary flashlight turned on, and I will put a corner of the beam on anybody close by. However, since most of my lights are between 160-200 lumens, the spill may not be as annoying.

I've had to light up some distracted drivers to avoid being run over (reflecting off their hood usually works, but one lady was texting while pulling into her driveway and I had to shine it directly in her face to get her to stop). It's surprising how many people stop at a stop sign and don't look before continuing.


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## Quiksilver (Dec 15, 2011)

I prefer just darkness ...

If I am walking past somebody at night I tend to give a courteous distance when passing, not right beside each other. This means I don't have to see them as a potential threat since they are safe distance away. Kind of like not using the urinal right next to somebody if there are other options. 

Just darkness, unless they do something in a threatening manner, then they get the hotspot in the eyes, buying me time to either run away or if I cannot (dependents, baddie looks faster, etc) then it buys me time to engage the threat. 

Other than that, it is very annoying to receive light in the eyes when walking along at night and if they appear to be minding their own business then I'd prefer they and I just enjoy the walk. Shining a bright light in someones eyes may just invoke sidewalk rage. I know it does with me.


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## BIGLOU (Dec 15, 2011)

I thought Canada was safe.


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## ddac (Dec 15, 2011)

Quiksilver said:


> I prefer just darkness ...
> 
> Other than that, it is very annoying to receive light in the eyes when walking along at night and if they appear to be minding their own business then I'd prefer they and I just enjoy the walk. Shining a bright light in someones eyes may just invoke sidewalk rage. I know it does with me.


+1


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## onetim (Dec 15, 2011)

Most people out walking at night rely on their night vision. When approached by someone with a bright light their night vision is blown and they can't see anything but the light. They're blinded and naturally their defenses soar to high alert as you approach. My advise is the same as most others here — put some leds on your dogs and cut your lumens to a minimum. "Walk softly but carry a big stick."


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## varmint (Dec 15, 2011)

Just curious here are you not allowed to carry anything for protection there?


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## curtispdx (Dec 15, 2011)

Point it down toward the ground just ahead of the person.


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## cummins4x4 (Dec 15, 2011)

varmint said:


> Just curious here are you not allowed to carry anything for protection there?



No carrying of handguns allowed, knives are ok. There is a movement underway to change our oppressive firearms laws.


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## jh333233 (Dec 15, 2011)

Think about if you were the person being shined by hundreds of lumen, what would you feel.
And with a overly high output shining at strangers, you might get a reverse effect: getting into unnecessary trouble
Shine only at ground and ask politely see if you can get a positive response BEFORE preparing self-defense
Even 200 lumen stings at dark area


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## HotWire (Dec 15, 2011)

When I walk at night I carry a small, dim flashlight in my left hand and I give people plenty of room. In my right hand I carry a bright flashlight that would surely be a surprise! Walking around with a bright flashlight is likely to cause more problems than it would solve. Always greet people with a smile or a *hello!* Where I live there is little threat from people, but big dogs.... they are another story!


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## chmsam (Dec 15, 2011)

If I were to be bombarded with a few hundred lumens as I was walking down a dark street, I'd certainly take offense and I try to be as nice a person as I can. My reaction would very likely be to, as we say around here, rip 'em a new one. 

As others have said repeatedly either turn down your light(s) or point the light to the ground. Another option would be to place a finger or two over the light to dim it for a few seconds, being mindfull that high output lights can get hot very quickly. Simply blasting the path ahead of you as you walk is extraordinarily rude and so much so that it is going to make even the mildest citizen think about getting a little payback. 

Simply put, it's better to win friends and influence people than to night blind your neighbors for no good reason. If you are still concerned for your safety and sufficiently uncomfortable about walking without several hundred lumens as a barrier, please consider talking with the local law enforcement or a group like a neighborhood watch. They'll be able to give you information to help you feel more secure.

To continue with your current habits is going to do you more harm than good since at this point not everyone is actually out to harm you but alienating innocent people could easily change that.


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## tickled (Dec 15, 2011)

BIGLOU said:


> I thought Canada was safe.


 There is a difference between real danger and imagined danger. In all honesty this case seems more like the latter. I think in terms of etiquette, I think if you wouldn't like having a spotlight put on you in the dark, then don't do it to others.


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## Launch Mini (Dec 15, 2011)

Whan walking the dogs and I notice someone approaching, I turn my light down, and simply illuminate just in front of me, not anywear near the other person. 
I don't want to appear as if I am checking them out, but lower the light lets them know I acknowledge their presence and am giving them their space.
No need to irritate them.


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## Norm (Dec 15, 2011)

You know how annoying it is when an oncoming driver won't dip his lights?
I don't see it as being any different :tsk:

Norm


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## ddac (Dec 15, 2011)

It sounds like his dogs are special. Most dogs (at least most dogs that I've encountered and my own dog) seem to be very alert at night. Although my dog may not have better eyes than I do, he uses his other senses to compensate. And compensate he does. He'll notice there's someone on the path approaching WAY WAY WAY before I can see or hear them. How do i know this? I hear a change in his footsteps and I know he notices something (a squirrel, a bird, another dog, a human, etc) up ahead.


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## ddac (Dec 15, 2011)

Norm said:


> You know how annoying it is when an oncoming driver won't dip his lights?
> I don't see it as being any different :tsk:
> 
> Norm


Does a car approach you going 6mph? He'll pass you in a few seconds. On the other hand, you're walking 3mph and the guy shining a 800 lumen light is walking towards you at 3mph. If I did my math right, that would be as if someone is traveling 6mph. 

6mph = 9ft per second. If you guys are 100ft apart, it'll take 11 seconds before he stops shining his lights in your eyes. 

I see it as being different.

I'm just saying....


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## kelmo (Dec 15, 2011)

mikedeason said:


> Hi, Im in Toronto Canada.
> 
> Its a big city so lots of scum lurking about at night and I walk in the cities largest green space...




Point it down and turn it down is polite. 

What is up with you Canuks? 1st the Vancouver riots and now scum sightings in Toronto. Whats next, "Grand Theft Auto - Alberta?" Stop watching American TV!

I posted this in another thread a while back. One warm summer evening I was walking with my lovely wife and we approached a family doing the same. There was a kid maybe about 4 or 5 with a maglight. He thought it was great fun shining it in our eyes. I asked the parents to please stop him but they thought it was hilarious and did nothing. I then returned the favor with a turboheaded 9P. Ugly words were exhanged because of my quote unquote "irresponsible behavour."


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## Norm (Dec 15, 2011)

ddac said:


> Does a car approach you going 6mph? He'll pass you in a few seconds. On the other hand, you're walking 3mph and the guy shining a 800 lumen light is walking towards you at 3mph. If I did my math right, that would be as if someone is traveling 6mph.
> 
> 6mph = 9ft per second. If you guys are 100ft apart, it'll take 11 seconds before he stops shining his lights in your eyes.
> 
> ...



ddac your post is a little pedantic, the lights from oncoming traffic will be visibly annoying fom a distance of about half a mile, if your covering that half mile in less than fifteen seconds (each car doing 60MPH) you're going too fast, using your few is that 3 seconds? your traveling at 300 MPH. 

I wasn't being literal, rather trying to express a similar level of annoyance. 

Norm


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## cummins4x4 (Dec 15, 2011)

kelmo said:


> What is up with you Canuks? 1st the Vancouver riots and now scum sightings in Toronto. Whats next, "Grand Theft Auto - Alberta?" Stop watching American TV
> "



There is something in the water in Vancouver and Moronto is famous for scum, lighting them up (with flashlights) has become a local sport. Alberta is God's country, we banish all the bad guys down east or out west


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## ddac (Dec 15, 2011)

Norm said:


> ddac your post is a little pedantic, the lights from oncoming traffic will be visibly annoying fom a distance of about half a mile, if your covering that half mile in less than fifteen seconds (each car doing 60MPH) you're going too fast, using your few is that 3 seconds? your traveling at 300 MPH.
> 
> I wasn't being literal, rather trying to express a similar level of annoyance.
> 
> Norm


I understand where you're coming from. However, I still think there's a world of difference between the OP shining his light at someone as he's approaching vs a car's headlight. Although it would be lovely if every car dips their lights, that would be counter-productive wouldn't it? Isn't the purpose of a car light be blinding bright? This way they can see where they're going and you can see they're coming? 

Additionally, cars can't dim their lights. However, the OP has the option to do so. He just chooses not to. 

Who would you be more annoyed at? Car coming at you 1/2 mile away blinding you? Or a man with his dogs and his 800 lumen light blinding you from 1/2 mile away (coming towards you at 3mph)?

Think about intent.


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## Flint&Steel (Dec 15, 2011)

I walk my dog every night, and all I do when I (or my dog) notice someone approaching is turn my light on low and point it straight to the ground. It lets my fellow walker know that I'm there, and also lets them know that I know they're there. It's worked every time, and I've never had any problems. If they were to shine even a minimal amount of light in my face in passing, I'd certainly take offense and would return the favor (with multiple hundreds of lumens, of course :devil.


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## mikedeason (Dec 16, 2011)

Flint&Steel said:


> I walk my dog every night, and all I do when I (or my dog) notice someone approaching is turn my light on low and point it straight to the ground. It lets my fellow walker know that I'm there, and also lets them know that I know they're there. It's worked every time, and I've never had any problems. If they were to shine even a minimal amount of light in my face in passing, I'd certainly take offense and would return the favor (with multiple hundreds of lumens, of course :devil.



I would prefer to point the light straight to the ground, however, the biggest issue I have is that many times I want to check out what kind of dog the other person is walking to make sure that it is not a pit bull or other type of aggressive dog. Please note that I have nothing against pit bulls but the type of people who own pit bulls in the city are generally not in control of their animals and have little regard for others. This may be a generalization but it falls true in many instances, especially since pit bulls are now banned.

Regardless, I have learned that with these massively bright LED lights, even allowing the spill to cross over an approaching person causes them a nuisance and I am trying to reign in the light by either pointing downwards or lowering the setting when I do see someone.


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## Quiksilver (Dec 16, 2011)

Good point I have done that a few times ... Just flash the light on the ground to let the oncoming pedestrian know you are there.


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## jzmtl (Dec 16, 2011)

Have someone else shine at you with your light at 800 lumen, even with spill it's still annoying as hell for eyes adapted to streetlight. I know I'd pissed if some stranger does that to me.


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## fisk-king (Dec 16, 2011)

ddac said:


> I understand where you're coming from. However, I still think there's a world of difference between the OP shining his light at someone as he's approaching vs a car's headlight. Although it would be lovely if every car dips their lights, that would be counter-productive wouldn't it? Isn't the purpose of a car light be blinding bright? This way they can see where they're going and you can see they're coming?
> 
> Additionally, cars can't dim their lights. However, the OP has the option to do so. He just chooses not to.
> 
> ...




...


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## GordoJones88 (Dec 16, 2011)

When I walk my dog in the park at night,
I use the new 4Sevens 18,000 lumen light.


 Hotlinked Images removed. See Rule #3 Do not Hot Link images - Norm




I also have an EDC.


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## dudemar (Dec 16, 2011)

GordoJones88 said:


> When I walk my dog in the park at night,
> I use the new 4Sevens 18,000 lumen light.



You wish.  In the meantime the Kong-12 should be a suitable replacement.


To the OP: IMO pointing a flashlight in anybody's direction is rude, even if it's just side spill or for a brief moment. 500~1000 lumens is a lot of power, and with it comes great responsibility. That said unless I was directly threatened, I wouldn't point a light in anyone's direction be it 10 lumens or 5,200 lumens. Disrupting someone's night adapted vision is not only painful and annoying, but can be perceived as threatening.

On my nightly walks I only use my high power lights only if I have to. Very brief flashes, no longer than necessary. I keep a really low profile and try not to attract unwanted attention or rouse suspicion. Same goes with my EDC lights, I momentarily use the lowest output setting on my LF Hi-CRI head in low ambient light. If I want to light something up in the distance, I put it on high and get enough throw for a quick visual. If it's not enough, I use more power.

You pick the right tool for the right job.


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## chmsam (Dec 16, 2011)

Another point to consider -- Shining a very bright light not only lets you see what's ahead but also calls attention to yourself and not in a good way. 

A person walking down the street nervously checking every shadow and turning around to see what is behind them every few seconds would quickly seen to be very nervous and most likely have something valuable to protect (and likely not be very good at doing that). That screams out that the person is a target.

Humans and dogs both can react badly to overly nervous people. That's an important thing to learn and remember.


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## goki (Dec 16, 2011)

I definitely agree on toning down the brightness and as others have mentioned, using less light might actually let you see more around the surroundings with dark-adapted eyesight. It'll definitely ruin my mood if I'm walking with my dog and somebody shines a bright light in my general area.


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## savumaki (Dec 16, 2011)

cummins4x4 said:


> No carrying of handguns allowed, knives are ok. There is a movement underway to change our oppressive firearms laws.



The change is ONLY for the registration of 'long guns' and will not change any carry laws in place.

I personally find it very annoying to have a light flashed in my face at night, something like having auto lights on high flashed at you. At night it doesn't take much light to disturb your vision.
A low level of light by your side is enough to alert an on comer that you are there. 
If you are that concerned that positive identification is necessary perhaps rescheduling for daylight walks is the way to go.


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## jh333233 (Dec 16, 2011)

ddac said:


> I understand where you're coming from. However, I still think there's a world of difference between the OP shining his light at someone as he's approaching vs a car's headlight. Although it would be lovely if every car dips their lights, that would be counter-productive wouldn't it? Isn't the purpose of a car light be blinding bright? This way they can see where they're going and you can see they're coming?
> 
> Additionally, cars can't dim their lights. However, the OP has the option to do so. He just chooses not to.
> 
> ...


Cars and humans are different cases
Car lights are compulsory,forced by laws
So i rather to be blinded by a car, than being crushed by car
I suppose no one would rush to another one:nana:


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## Norm (Dec 16, 2011)

jh333233 said:


> Cars and humans are different cases
> Car lights are compulsory,forced by laws
> So i rather to be blinded by a car, than being crushed by car
> I suppose no one would rush to another one:nana:



This is being taken out of context, my original post stated



Norm said:


> You know how annoying it is when an oncoming driver won't dip his lights?
> I don't see it as being any different :tsk:
> 
> Norm



I certainly wasn't expecting drivers to drive around in the dark sans headlights.

Norm


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## troika (Dec 16, 2011)

I hate to try to make this point twice, since I failed the first time and others have touched on it too. But:

Walk by a bees next and it's not necessarily any danger toyou. Whack it with a stick and the bees will become hostile and now you might actually be in danger. Walk past most any kind of animal...feral cat, say and it's probably not interested, make it feel threatened and it might go on the offensive.

You're obviously a little bit uneasy walking in your neighborhood. Other good people walking in the same area likely feel the same way. Personally, I know what tactical flashlights are for and if I'm feeling uneasy and someone shines one at me, I may go from harmless to aggressive pretty quickly. More than a nuisance, you may actually create a foe.

I haven't been to Toronto, I'm sorry that you're uncomfortable there. I'm very security conscious and have lived in some statistically dangerous places, like Miami, for one. There's an art to finding harmony with your environment and I hope you find yours. My free and quite worthless advice is to be careful about breaking open someone else's.

I know we have a lot of LEOs here, maybe some of them will have more educated opinions.


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## RobertM (Dec 16, 2011)

mikedeason said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> I have to put my safety and the safety of my dogs before the slight irritation my lights may cause so ramping down to 100 lumens is not really an option. I really dont think anyone will attack me with an 800 lumen light and 500 lumen headlight blazing.
> 
> I am going to make a more concerted effort, however, to keep the light direction out of peoples vision. When I first got these light I didnt really realize how bright they appeared when you are approaching someone who is carrying this many lumens.



I'm sorry, but I think that 1300 total lumens to walk your dog in the park is quite excessive. I think this probably draws a lot of unwanted attention as well. As other have stated, by using less light, your eyes will adapt and you will actually be able to see more without the need for all of the light.

I would imagine that most bad guys wouldn't think much of someone with a dim flashlight. But most non-flashaholics would probably equate a really bright flashlight with being quite expensive. I think that this might be putting yourself at risk of thieves.


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## LowFlux (Dec 16, 2011)

Be aware that an 800 lumen beam, even if not pointed at someone's eyes, is still incredibly bright to dark-adapted eyes. You ruin night vision by blasting out so many lumens.

Save the turbo modes for the element of surprise, IMO.


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## Mr Happy (Dec 16, 2011)

mikedeason said:


> Hello, being new to these super powerful LED's and being one of the first adaptors in my area, I am finding that when encountering others while walking at night, I always get an unfriendly response.
> 
> If I see someone approaching, I will first move the hotspot far away from the person, then click to highest lumens or medium depending on their distance (800 or 300 lumens), then very briefly (less than a second) put the hotspot somewhere near them (not in the eyes) to try and dicern if they are a threat.
> 
> If I am uncertain as to their threat level, I will ramp to highest lumens and keep just the edge of the spill on that person as I pass. If I am confidant that they are not a threat, I will set at medium (300 lumens) and pass them with the beam pointing upwards.



I'm just reading this thread and it seems you are acting like a total *******. You are annoying the people around you and drawing attention to yourself as a target. Far from increasing your safety it is probably decreasing it.

When I walk at night I use dark adapted vision. There is absolutely no reason to walk with a light on unless it is pitch black on a moonless, cloudy night with no nearby city lights. If someone approached me and shone a bright light in my direction I would be very annoyed. If I were violently inclined I would probably want to thump them. The best way to be safe is to be anonymous, to blend in, and to appear confident that you belong in the place and are not nervous or hesitant. Keep your light switched off but have it ready to switch on if you perceive a threat. If you encounter other people, pass them by at a distance while remaining alert and observant.

As to the dogs, they can see in the dark and if they are off the leash they should be trained well enough to respond to your calls and come when asked. If you don't want them to go out of your sight, don't let them off the leash. If somehow they get trapped or hurt they will bark or squeal and you can use the light to help find them.

I honestly don't know what you are thinking when walking around with a searchlight like that.


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## Quiksilver (Dec 16, 2011)

Mr Happy said:


> I'm just reading this thread and it seems you are acting like a total *******. You are annoying the people around you and drawing attention to yourself as a target. Far from increasing your safety it is probably decreasing it.
> 
> When I walk at night I use dark adapted vision. There is absolutely no reason to walk with a light on unless it is pitch black on a moonless, cloudy night with no nearby city lights. If someone approached me and shone a bright light in my direction I would be very annoyed. If I were violently inclined I would probably want to thump them. The best way to be safe is to be anonymous, to blend in, and to appear confident that you belong in the place and are not nervous or hesitant. Keep your light switched off but have it ready to switch on if you perceive a threat. If you encounter other people, pass them by at a distance while remaining alert and observant.
> 
> ...



+1

He can walk around with whatever he wants, but that also comes with a degree of responsibility not to irritate other people or make them feel threatened. IMO shining a light at someone, anyone, who does not arouse reasonable suspicion, in the dark amounts to giving them the finger and cursing at them. I know if some dork shone 300 lumens near my face on a dark night, I'd tell him to knock it off and if he didn't i'd go over to him and do it myself.


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## That guy (Dec 16, 2011)

c'mon TO ain't that bad! so, as most have confirmed it would seem that less lum and not as direct a hit would be proper etiquette. but i cant blame you for wanting to blast stuff with 800 lums.


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## Soda (Dec 16, 2011)

While walking down a local hill a while ago my cousin had some pretty bad etiquette.
The whole way down he had one of my lights on turbo (Fenix PD30 - 235lm), when everyone else in our group, including me had their lights on general mode (>100 lm). Whenever someone came towards us, everyone except him pointed their lights to the side, but he kept his light pointed straight down the road, with the oncoming hikers in his hotspot. Also, when the batteries began to die, the light went into a near-pwm strobe that really annoyed me. So i told him to turn it down to the general mode like everyone else, but after about a minute or so he turned it back up to that turbo mode, causing the light to strobe again. Every time i wasn't looking, he would turn it up to the turbo mode, and evertime i saw it i told him to turn it back down.
By the time we got to the bottom i had taken the flashlight away from him as well as everything else i had lent him the night before.


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## flashlight chronic (Dec 16, 2011)

Innocent till proven guilty brother. Most people (non-chronics) aren't into flashlights like us, so they won't be carrying something as powerful as a TK35. If you're ramping your light up when someone approaches, chances are they can see that. What would you think if someone did the same to you? I know you mean well for your safety. There's crazy people all over the place, even where I live. I also work at a correctional facility, so I'm always looking over my shoulder. My TK35 is set to activate the strobe function when I hold down the mode button, in case I need it. Just some friendly advice.


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## kaichu dento (Dec 16, 2011)

mikedeason said:


> Valid points, however, I feel I have less chance of being assaulted with more light than less.


If I was up to no good and there were few people around I'd be much more likely to try and bum rush someone who was carelessly blasting their light in my eyes. I have it happen to me on a regular basis in the winter time and it's annoying enough when it's 10 lumens. 
You're right to safety is also balanced against others right to not have you blasting them with your lights.


Quiksilver said:


> I prefer just darkness ...
> 
> If I am walking past somebody at night I tend to give a courteous distance when passing, not right beside each other. This means I don't have to see them as a potential threat since they are safe distance away. Kind of like not using the urinal right next to somebody if there are other options.
> 
> ...


Very nice post and I'm encouraged seeing so many rational opinions like this in the thread.


ddac said:


> Does a car approach you going 6mph? He'll pass you in a few seconds. On the other hand, you're walking 3mph and the guy shining a 800 lumen light is walking towards you at 3mph. If I did my math right, that would be as if someone is traveling 6mph.
> 
> 6mph = 9ft per second. If you guys are 100ft apart, it'll take 11 seconds before he stops shining his lights in your eyes.
> 
> ...


In your attempt to over-evaluate you completely missed the meaning of the post you were responding to. Getting past semantics, you're saying the same thing as the post you responded to, but in a much more ponderous manner.


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## simplec6 (Dec 16, 2011)

You blind me with a light like that and you're gettin' 1200 lumens right in the face. Threat or not, you are defeating the purpose by letting their eyes adjust. You would like to have it as dark as possible if you want to blind someone quickly.


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## mikedeason (Dec 16, 2011)

Some useful responses. Thanks.

To clear-up a couple points.

I'm not walking on darkened streets. I am walking in a very large green space (think _Central Park NYC _with less people and lighting and crime).

I am walking 4 dogs off leash (yes it is allowed in certain areas of the park).

The park borders an urban area and is frequented by riff raff; including drug users and kids up to mischief (or worse) and drinking.

There are coyotes that have been known to snatch small dogs (my wife's 2 dogs are small) and there are undesirables who walk aggressive dogs such as pit bulls, which are now banned thankfully.

If *you* are the type of person who would attack someone physically because of light being shone in your direction, instead of simply informing the person who shone the light that it was annoying, then *you* are the type of person who would pose a threat to me, regardless of the light.

Since I live in the city, this green space is my only retreat (however flawed) and I refuse to sacrifice my safety or my dog’s safety and freedom to use the area in a responsible manner.

Unfortunately, if that means occasionally offending others simply out for a stroll then so be it. *I will, however continue to try and improve how I use these super bright lights in order to minimize the nuisance I may cause to innocents.*


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## GordoJones88 (Dec 16, 2011)

okay.


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## Kestrel (Dec 16, 2011)

GordoJones88 said:


> You are an idiot.


It seemed like we were in a race to the bottom in this thread today, and it looks like we just got there. :shakehead
Gordo, please take a day off.


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## troika (Dec 16, 2011)

mikedeason said:


> If *you* are the type of person who would attack someone physically because of light being shone in your direction, instead of simply informing the person who shone the light that it was annoying, then *you* are the type of person who would pose a threat to me, regardless of the light.



Let me clarify, just in case you were responding to my post. I'm not suggesting that I would attack someone out of anger for shining a flashlight at me. What I'm saying is this. If you are there feeling unsafe and wonder if each approaching person is planning on harming you, then the chances are that other people there are just like you feeling and fearing the same thing. If, hypothetically, I was one of those people, worrying that you might be planning on mugging me or worse and you shined me with a tactical flashlight, my latent fear might take that as a sign that you are indeed a predator and I am about to be attacked. Think about it.

Of course I don't mean me. I don't live in Toronto. It's just a literary device. I never feel right saying "one" as in "one might think". Too Old English for me.


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## Kestrel (Dec 16, 2011)

This thread was going downhill for the entire day, please let's change direction to something more constructive?

Best regards,


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## troika (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm out. Sorry if I made things worse. It wasn't my intention.

Going back to reading about drop-ins for my 6P.


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## Kestrel (Dec 16, 2011)

troika said:


> I'm out. Sorry if I made things worse. It wasn't my intention.
> Going back to reading about drop-ins for my 6P.


troika, everything is cool, don't worry. 

My post wasn't directed at you at all, I composed it prior to your post above. My concern is the prior 20-25 posts or so and the general direction that this thread was headed.


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## AaronG (Dec 16, 2011)

I fear my post might have led us down the wrong path.

Keep in mind the OP noticed a problem and was looking for constuctive criticism on how to change the situation. Name calling and insults very rarely lead to a positive outcome. :wave:


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## eh4 (Dec 17, 2011)

bright light is a whole lot like shouting, or extremely loud music, it is threatening or belligerent unless its wanted.


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## eh4 (Dec 17, 2011)

I'm reading on a cellphone, just sounded off without reading all 3 pages, so I just gave my initial opinion to the question... so I'm not a flamin just my honest advice to anyone about bright lights in the dark.my first thought before I heard how bright lights were was just say keep it near your feet and out of their eyes. that is what I hate about little kids running around with flashlights, they don't think anything of blinding you. it takes a while to get your night vision back.


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## eh4 (Dec 17, 2011)

... and kelmo, I found your post hilarious.


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## kaichu dento (Dec 17, 2011)

mikedeason said:


> Since I live in the city, this green space is my only retreat (however flawed) and I refuse to sacrifice my safety or my dog’s safety and freedom to use the area in a responsible manner.
> 
> Unfortunately, if that means occasionally offending others simply out for a stroll then so be it. *I will, however continue to try and improve how I use these super bright lights in order to minimize the nuisance I may cause to innocents.*


The title of your thread suggests consideration for others, but it seems that you're leaving out the possibility that others may be going to the same space to have some relaxing time, much as yourself. 

I like your closing statement as a sign of concern for others, but it doesn't read quite as well on the heels of your statement that "if that means occasionally offending others simply out for a stroll then so be it."

Just hoping the closing sentence is the one that forms your usage.


eh4 said:


> bright light is a whole lot like shouting, or extremely loud music, it is threatening or belligerent unless its wanted.


Exactly.


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## Richub (Dec 17, 2011)

Not having read the whole thread, but here's what I usually do:

Having good night vision, I don't need to blast something with 500+ lumen to see what or who it is. 
I usually carry a light set to 50 lumen or so as a primary light source. When I need to illuminate someone/something, I usually aim it to the ground between us. Even the reflection is good enough for me to see clearly then. 
This is in a city environment, in rural area's I usually carry a light set to 100+ lumen.

If needed, I usually have a 300+ (or 800+ if I carry my Fenix TK35) lumen light in my pocket, which is bright enough to light up an entire street, especially with night adapted vision.

In my early days of flashaholicism, I used to annoy people by flashing a light in their faces, not yet knowing how bright a Fenix TK11 with an XP-E Q5 LED really is. 
Eventually someone returned the favor, and blinded me back with my own light. OUCH! :duh2:

After that experience, I immediately quit shining people in their eyes. Unless the situation calls for it, of course.


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## bobbagum (Dec 17, 2011)

Just point it to the ground for a few seconds while you pass other people, should something bad happens, hit them with strobe, but keeping it in low would work better to disorient them to begin with, so yeah, don' go around blasting high all the time.

I'm curious now, are there any lights where you could keep it constantly on in low or medium yet can press a button for momentary blast of high or turbo? most lights I know either require a double/triple click or press and hold for strobe/turbo.


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## Norm (Dec 17, 2011)

There seems to be quite a number of posts from people who haven't read or understood the OP, it's all downhill folks as Kestrel said earlier. I see nothing constructive coming from leaving this thread open.

kaichu-dento thank for taking the time to read and comprehend what I'd written. 

Norm


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