# Dedicated throwers



## AutoTech

Awesome! Every flashaholic should have one 

After seeing reviews and pics I decided to get myself a Tiablo A9, managed to find a new (old stock) one on a well known auction website. It's not here yet but I managed to source an aspheric lens with a free non working fake A9. I got the fake a9 working and WOW, I love the throw and concentration. The light was visible in daylight (overcast) shining 20m into trees! I'd never known anything like it and couldn't wait til dark.

Aparantly the real a9 has noticeably higher lux readings so I'm looking forward to that turning up.

There's just something so amazing about seeing that beam hit something so far away. I was hanging out my son's bedroom window just lighting up roofs for 100's of yards.

I'd slowed down on the light collecting lately, almost settled down but this has sparked a bit more enthusiasm into the hobby for me.

Anyone else with me? (well I know there is  ) apart from the A9 is there anything else like that? I'm talking off the shelf not deft style.


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## coolperl

Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 beats A9 (with reflector head). It almost matches original A9 with aspheric lens.

Besides, your fake A9 can be better thrower that original A9. That's because fakes are frequently equipped with LED with EZ900 die, whereas original A9 had older LED with EZ1000 die, which is bigger and provides less throw. So don't hold your breath...


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## Breathing Borla

My Catapult XM-L has some serious throw. I hit two coyotes really far away the other night and they took off 

Every-time I turn it on high I think, WOW this thing throws, you have to lean into it it throws out so much light, LOL

I am actually in the market for something that uses non-LI cells for my old man but offers Catapult like throw, that may be hard to do though.

let the search begin....


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## varmint

I just repeat myself but the Thrunite TN11 is awesome


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## Blitzwing

+1 for the Pro-1.

For a cheap light, the Ultrafire WF-008 recoil thrower is not bad either.


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## Luminater

For budget thrower Skyray STL-V2/FandyFire STL-V6 45-55$ for Bigger hot spot than XR-E with about 48,000 - 50,000 lux


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## coolperl

varmint said:


> I just repeat myself but the Thrunite TN11 is awesome



Buy youself a real thrower (like Catapult V3, Crelant 7G5, Sunwayman TC40S) and you'll laugh from your poor TN11.


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## AutoTech

varmint said:


> I just repeat myself but the Thrunite TN11 is awesome



I have the TN11, it does indeed throw.. But, the more dedicated throwers are in a different league. The TN11 puts out a good flood as well, this A9 with collimater head just puts out the square shape of the emmiter for hundreds of yds. The tn11 might go almost as far but you'll be blinded to it by the rest of the beam bouncing off closer stuff.


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## Jash

TK60 allowed me to put light on a surf life saving hut that google earth,via iPhone 4, told me was 510m away (give or take 20m). It lit up all the beach between me and it. It wasn't lit up like daylight, but you could see it was there.


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## Waspy

Breathing Borla said:


> I am actually in the market for something that uses non-LI cells for my old man but offers Catapult like throw, that may be hard to do though.
> 
> let the search begin....



The Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 (the one with the XR-E) comes with a free tube (L2i) and tailswitch and battery cartridge for 3xAAA. $43.99

http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=LF&s=26&id=12


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## 1hawaii50

I'm amazed every time I turn on my Catapult V3 in the dark!


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## 2100

Well, 7" reflectored HIDs can do 10x more candlepower than the best LEDs (eg DEFT High Output version).


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## Breathing Borla

Waspy said:


> The Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 (the one with the XR-E) comes with a free tube (L2i) and tailswitch and battery cartridge for 3xAAA. $43.99
> 
> http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=LF&s=26&id=12



That will throw like a catapult? Doesn't seem like it from reading that page.

I may be missing it but it looks like it runs on 18650s. I wanted something to run on regular cells C,D, AA, AAA, ect. I don't want him to have to mess with anything else you can't get from every store or worry about charging.

Thanks for the help though.


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## Chidwack

If you don't want Li/ion then you need a light that uses NiMh batteries. I can think of three that use these batteries and still have great throw. I only own one, Fenix TK41. Huge throw and still has good spill. Uses 8 AA batteries. Another is the Fenix TK60. I think the head is the same as the head on the TK41. Uses 4 D cell NiMh batteries. Has about the same brightness and throw as the TK41 but it's longer and heavier because of the 4 D cell batteries. It also gives twice the battery life of the TK41. Lastly, it's the TK70. Huge light using 4 D cell NiMh batteries. It may not throw as far as the Olight SR90 but it's close and it gives off more spill, lighting up all your surroundings. Costs half of what the Olight SR90 costs and uses rechargeable Nimh batteries.


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## bigchelis

Im getting tired of posting this, but here it goes.

Lumapower D-Mini with XR-E R2 at 1.2A with TurboForce SMO 66mm bezel = 70~80K lux. Yes, thats laser like throw and at 240ihs OTF lumens it will out throw all those 500~1000 lumen newer type of Thrunite/Fenix ect...lights.

You can have somebody even build you a custom Pill with XR-E R2 at 1.4A~1.8A and you will get 80~90K lux out of the same 1*18650 package.


bigC


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## Jthe5th

bigchelis said:


> Im getting tired of posting this, but here it goes.
> 
> Lumapower D-Mini with XR-E R2 at 1.2A with TurboForce SMO 66mm bezel = 70~80K lux. Yes, thats laser like throw and at 240ihs OTF lumens it will out throw all those 500~1000 lumen newer type of Thrunite/Fenix ect...lights.
> 
> You can have somebody even build you a custom Pill with XR-E R2 at 1.4A~1.8A and you will get 80~90K lux out of the same 1*18650 package.
> 
> 
> bigC



Yes it's throws like mad, but a laser-like beam is not as useful for illumination as the the beampattern of T40CS for example. That D-mini is more for the thought that you have have farthest reaching light. Personally I don't find laser-like beams useful @ 100 yards.


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## bigchelis

Jthe5th said:


> Yes it's throws like mad, but a laser-like beam is not as useful for illumination as the the beampattern of T40CS for example. That D-mini is more for the thought that you have have farthest reaching light. Personally I don't find laser-like beams useful @ 100 yards.



The D-mini uses a P60 type of pill. So, you could easily or have Nailbender make it an XM-L at 2.8A and you willl get 60K lux or more. This will still be very throwy and plenty of spill.

Plus, you can still screw in any P60 pill. same thread size, just it will only screw half way cause the D-Mini has square threads and P60 pills are round.

bigC


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## Waspy

Breathing Borla said:


> That will throw like a catapult? Doesn't seem like it from reading that page.
> 
> I may be missing it but it looks like it runs on 18650s. I wanted something to run on regular cells C,D, AA, AAA, ect. I don't want him to have to mess with anything else you can't get from every store or worry about charging.
> 
> Thanks for the help though.



It will throw like a catapult, it takes AAAs. I have one next to me on my desk loaded with 3xAAAs


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## Breathing Borla

Waspy said:


> It will throw like a catapult, it takes AAAs.



no offense, but I would have to see that to believe it

I have a catapult V2 XM-L and I giggle every-time I turn that thing on...it's a wall of light

I will have to look into it more

I can't seem to find any beam shots of it??


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## Breathing Borla

Waspy said:


> The Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 (the one with the XR-E) comes with a free tube (L2i) and tailswitch and battery cartridge for 3xAAA. $43.99
> 
> http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=LF&s=26&id=12



the web site seems a bit messed up on my browser.. 

is this everything you need to fire it up, or do you need to buy more pieces?

it describes this as an upgrade kit for a surfire light rather than a complete light on it's own?

I don't see where it says anything about running on AAAs on the right where is show 18650 runtimes, ect..


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## Waspy

Breathing Borla said:


> the web site seems a bit messed up on my browser..
> 
> is this everything you need to fire it up, or do you need to buy more pieces?
> 
> it describes this as an upgrade kit for a surfire light rather than a complete light on it's own?
> 
> I don't see where it says anything about running on AAAs on the right where is show 18650 runtimes, ect..



Yes it fits Surefire bodies, also Solarforce bodies, they are all the same.

You get the 'Monster Thrower Head' bit of a joke name but a serious bit of kit, plus if you look on the left, it says under 'Product Name'...... Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 Turbo Head King ~ Monster Thrower + Free L2i AAA/18650/CR123A battery tube + switch x 1pc FREE !!

I ordered exactly this just for the head (I already had a body and tailswitch to fit) and it came with a (fattish) tube, a tailswitch and a battery cartridge that takes 3xAAAs

Now, the 'Masterpiece Pro-1 Turbo Head' is already acknowledged as a terrific thrower, with the free stuff, you add 3 AAAs for a total of 4.5 volts. The Catapult with one 18650 is 3.7 volts so there is no way it can be underpowered compared to one 18650.

You asked for a great thrower that takes alkalines and I believe this fits. The Masterpiece Pro-1 Turbo Head is a great bit of kit and it comes with all you need except batteries.

Of course, later on if you fancied an upgrade you could add the Solarforce 2x18650 tube and suitable tailswitch.


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## coolperl

Well, unfortunatelly, Mastepiece pro-1 doesn't reach its full potential on 1x18650 or 3xAAA. You need at least 2xCR123, 2xRCR123 or 2x18650 (or equivalent in voltage). The circuit inside the head, has step-down converter, which needs bigger voltage, to run the LED at designed current. 1x18650 or 3xAAA won't provide sufficient voltage (18650) or sufficient current (3xAAA) for the circuit, to reach declared brightness. It will be bright and throwy, but it's not 100% of its capabilites.
I had MPP-1 and tested it in different configurations and these are my conclusions. If you want a pure thrower that is powered by AA cells, consider Fenix TK41 or Lumintop PK30.


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## Quiksilver

Am using the Malkoff Hound Dog w/ MD3. 

I find it puts out plenty of throw without being laser-like. 

That being said, I'm in the market for a laser-like light!  They have an important niche to fill.


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## AutoTech

Waspy said:


> Yes it fits Surefire bodies, also Solarforce bodies, they are all the same.
> 
> You get the 'Monster Thrower Head' bit of a joke name but a serious bit of kit, plus if you look on the left, it says under 'Product Name'...... Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 Turbo Head King ~ Monster Thrower + Free L2i AAA/18650/CR123A battery tube + switch x 1pc FREE !!
> 
> I ordered exactly this just for the head (I already had a body and tailswitch to fit) and it came with a (fattish) tube, a tailswitch and a battery cartridge that takes 3xAAAs
> 
> Now, the 'Masterpiece Pro-1 Turbo Head' is already acknowledged as a terrific thrower, with the free stuff, you add 3 AAAs for a total of 4.5 volts. The Catapult with one 18650 is 3.7 volts so there is no way it can be underpowered compared to one 18650.
> 
> You asked for a great thrower that takes alkalines and I believe this fits. The Masterpiece Pro-1 Turbo Head is a great bit of kit and it comes with all you need except batteries.
> 
> Of course, later on if you fancied an upgrade you could add the Solarforce 2x18650 tube and suitable tailswitch.



hmm, interesting.. I quite fancy one of these heads, I think it'd look funky on my l2m mini single cr123 body


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## TheExpert

How about the DEFT?


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## jorn

My pro-1 managed to light up a cabin on the other side of a fjord at 650 meters when i was getting water from a stream on a hunting trip some months ago. There were no ambient light and my atv got terrible light, so i held the pro in my hand while driving back to my cabin. Really fun to play with all the rabbits running in front of me. Ended up with 3 running around in the beam, and they dident want to run out of it, almost felt like hearding them back to my cabin  
It's a one mode, so i prefer 2x18650 with it. It gets dimmer under 6v but it still is plenty bright and really throwy even on 3 aaa's.


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## AutoTech

coolperl said:


> Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 beats A9 (with reflector head). It almost matches original A9 with aspheric lens.
> 
> Besides, your fake A9 can be better thrower that original A9. That's because fakes are frequently equipped with LED with EZ900 die, whereas original A9 had older LED with EZ1000 die, which is bigger and provides less throw. So don't hold your breath...



Spot on!

Just got my genuine A9 and the fake blows it away!

The fake outputs the emmiter square shape while the A9 just goes to a round beam. Gutted, I was expecting it to blow away the fake. Wish I'd never bothered.


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## brandocommando

bigchelis said:


> Im getting tired of posting this, but here it goes.
> 
> Lumapower D-Mini with XR-E R2 at 1.2A with TurboForce SMO 66mm bezel = 70~80K lux. Yes, thats laser like throw and at 240ihs OTF lumens it will out throw all those 500~1000 lumen newer type of Thrunite/Fenix ect...lights.
> 
> You can have somebody even build you a custom Pill with XR-E R2 at 1.4A~1.8A and you will get 80~90K lux out of the same 1*18650 package.
> 
> 
> bigC



My exact set-up! I got a Lumapower Turboforce head and a D-mini body off CPFMP for $38.00, and put a XR-E in it. It is running at 2A!!!

It THROOOOOOOOWS! It stomps my el-cheapo DX aspherical set-up (also an XR-E.)


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## yiyans

coolperl said:


> Buy youself a real thrower (like Catapult V3, Crelant 7G5, Sunwayman TC40S) and you'll laugh from your poor TN11.



Hi coolperl
Saw your great review and I am less concerned about my 7G5 whining now.
Is there a way to changing the UI of the 7G5? Or am I hoping too much for a light that price.
IMHO the light's UI really is no match to its build qualit and finish.


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## AutoTech

AutoTech said:


> Spot on!
> 
> Just got my genuine A9 and the fake blows it away!
> 
> The fake outputs the emmiter square shape while the A9 just goes to a round beam. Gutted, I was expecting it to blow away the fake. Wish I'd never bothered.



Just to add, I was being a muppet! 

The reason the A9 wasn't the same as the fake was because the fake had an o-ring between the head collar and body collar, so when tight the head was a couple of mm further out than the A9. I put the o-ring on the A9 and it focuses the same as the fake. Got to say though the fake is all I'd have needed, the real A9 is a bit nicer but you'd not know the difference apart from 2 orings on the threads at each end.


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## Jthe5th

yiyans said:


> Hi coolperl
> Saw your great review and I am less concerned about my 7G5 whining now.
> Is there a way to changing the UI of the 7G5? Or am I hoping too much for a light that price.
> IMHO the light's UI really is no match to its build qualit and finish.



What UI do you prefer? Or you just follow the personal preference of the reviewer which a large number of flashlights?
The light has memory though.


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## Wiggle

AutoTech said:


> hmm, interesting.. I quite fancy one of these heads, I think it'd look funky on my l2m mini single cr123 body









:thumbsup:


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## saabluster

AutoTech said:


> Anyone else with me? (well I know there is  ) apart from the A9 is there anything else like that? I'm talking off the shelf not deft style.



:thinking: But the DEFT *is* "off the shelf" as in it needs no assembly. I also stand behind my work. Maybe you mean you don't like custom lights?


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## eh4

I think I understand what you've got saabluster, power, balance and efficiency wise. I was playing around with a 1.5 lumen white led and a magnifying glass, looking at the diode shape on the wall and dimly lighting up the tops of trees outside, and with that little tiny bit of light, and throwing it so far, I was noticing how much the spill was impairing my use of the spot of light.


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## LGT

While new here, all of my purchases have been made with information gained on CPF. And with that, I must agree with the thrunite catapult being an excellent thrower. This light needs room to stretch it's legs. And to add, the knowledge here can be intimidating. Hope my first post doesn't sound rediculous.


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## Breathing Borla

LGT said:


> While new here, all of my purchases have been made with information gained on CPF. And with that, I must agree with the thrunite catapult being an excellent thrower. This light needs room to stretch it's legs. And to add, the knowledge here can be intimidating. Hope my first post doesn't sound rediculous.



not at all bro, welcome to the sickness:welcome:

my catapult rocks too, get some AW cells and you will amazed how they perform. Don't forget your DMM either


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## coolperl

yiyans said:


> Hi coolperl
> Saw your great review and I am less concerned about my 7G5 whining now.
> Is there a way to changing the UI of the 7G5? Or am I hoping too much for a light that price.
> IMHO the light's UI really is no match to its build qualit and finish.



Please ask this question in 7G5 review thread. This is not a proper thread. 
But to answer shortly, you can change the UI by changing the circuit board. With original board, you have to accept also original UI, as it is. However beeing a pure thrower and having a memory, 7G5 is not that hard to operate. Just leave it on "High" and enjoy your ~800lm and ~60K lux/1m. :thumbsup:


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## AutoTech

Just took my A9 with aspheric head and my TN11 out into the countryside. My mrs had left her camera down her horse field so I keenly went off armed with two of my lights.

I took pics and a vid on my phone but it just doesn't come accross anywhere near as great. One thing's for sure the TN11 is like a flood light compared to the A9.

It was a bit misty and the beam was just like a giant light sabre


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## Tatjanamagic

When we talk about dedicated throwers...

There are 2 categories:
- Aspherical lenses throwers

- Deep reflector throwers 

And simple fact that old XRE emitters are still king of throw weather in aspherical or reflector lights make me think that there are no and that will not be any more improvements in this category. 

So I would say that only xre flashlight are true and dedicated throwers so all of you who have newest emitters be sure that U don't have dedicated thrower unless U downgrade to old xre. 

Beam distance; Aspherical vs Reflector (same size) running the same emitter at same current... Winner is always aspheric 


And I would like to add that lux readings are not telling U much about throwing ability of your flashlight.... So when you measure 60Klux/1m with reflector lights U must know that this will melt down at greater distances as hotspot is getting bigger so 800 lumen 7G5 XML led will have less throw than lets say 250 lumens solarforce masterpice xre light.


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## AutoTech

Here's a pic of my A9 with aspheric head. Rested it down on a fence post and aimed at a tree about 80 metres. I took a vid too.






The A9 has an o ring between the head and body to focus the emmiter shape, without it the light just has a round beam and doesn't get out like this. I had it out a good few hundred yards, as I say it wasn't a particularly clear night, bit damp in the air.

Here's my TN11 walking down the track to the field.






Pics aren't too bad considering they're off my iphone 4s.


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## LGT

Breathing Borla said:


> not at all bro, welcome to the sickness:welcome:
> 
> my catapult rocks too, get some AW cells and you will amazed how they perform. Don't forget your DMM either[/QUOTE What is a DMM?


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## nutcracker

Digital Multimeter to measure the battery voltage I guess.


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## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> And simple fact that old XRE emitters are still king of throw weather in aspherical or reflector lights make me think that there are no and that will not be any more improvements in this category.
> 
> So I would say that only xre flashlight are true and dedicated throwers so all of you who have newest emitters be sure that U don't have dedicated thrower unless U downgrade to old xre.


Things have been moving along in the LED world. The XR-E is no longer the best choice for all throwing lights and is certainly not the most intense LED anymore. Currently the most intense LED is the XP-C Q4. It is the one I use in the DEFT-edc that whoops up on all the other P60 sized throwers. Now I'm using this same LED in the DEFT-edc LR which has an amazing 50% improvement over that! I don't recommend using the XP-C with larger lights as the spot size becomes too small in my opinion. But in a small light like the DEFT-edc LR it is unbeatable. Literally. 






Tatjanamagic said:


> And I would like to add that lux readings are not telling U much about throwing ability of your flashlight.... So when you measure 60Klux/1m with reflector lights U must know that this will melt down at greater distances as hotspot is getting bigger so 800 lumen 7G5 XML led will have less throw than lets say 250 lumens solarforce masterpice xre light.



Well you are right assuming the one taking the measurements does them at 1 meter. You can however measure from farther out and calculate back to 1 meter for accuracy that is close enough. I'm sure you knew that but thought I'd add that for the benefit of others who may be reading this. I'm happy to see you helping people realize that a lower lumen light can out-throw a higher lumen light. It is an all to common misconception. :thumbsup:


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## 2100

Tatjanamagic said:


> And I would like to add that lux readings are not telling U much about throwing ability of your flashlight.... So when you measure 60Klux/1m with reflector lights U must know that this will melt down at greater distances as hotspot is getting bigger so 800 lumen 7G5 XML led will have less throw than lets say 250 lumens solarforce masterpice xre light.


Hey bro how are things?  Got your Dereelight pill with better tint? I figured that i have a 1.5A one afterall and not the 1.2A.... 

I have the 7G5 coming, i also have the Solarforce MPP-1 XR-E. I think they will be pretty close, meter readings and beamshots coming (long range ones at 400 over metres). But the Solarforce is a bit disadvantaged, coz the 7G5 has a 58mm class reflector. IIRC MPP-1 is 50mm.


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## Tatjanamagic

Hi Saabluster and 2100,

Sabluster I knew about your xpc it looks same like green xpe I have at my home. But they are old school emitters that will have potential only if properly tuned by you and only in aspheric right?

I just want to mention that xre r2 especially with ez900 die is the best choice for reflector throwers, and I personally would rather use that in aspheric instead of xpc because xpc has smaller die and larger hole that is bit annoying to me.

2100 friend I would like to think that 800 lumen xml 7G5 would out throw 200 lm solarforce xre q4 MPP1 but that will not be the case in this story. And U can only imagine what would happen if mpp 1 have deerelight 1,5 amp ez 900 pill it would kill every led reflector thrower in a world.

I figured out that best tint emitter for aspheric is *WD.

*Deerelight's new r2 pill have ez 900 die running on 1,5 amp, Alan from deerelight and I measured on light meters distance 7 meters he got over 90 Klux and I got 80 klux results

So improvements over old one that has 55-60 klux readings are obvious.

I really don't get it how come that Saabluster did not took deerelight aspheric as a host because he would make unbeatable throwing beast with his knowledge.


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## matthewcyho

I have the Olight SR90 , Olight SR 91 , The King of Thrower !! :wave:


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## JacobJones

Tatjanamagic said:


> I really don't get it how come that Saabluster did not took deerelight aspheric as a host because he would make unbeatable throwing beast [/FONT][/COLOR]with his knowledge.



He has already built a large unbeatable throwing beast, search for the DEFT HO or DEFT FTP.


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## Tatjanamagic

JacobJones said:


> He has already built a large unbeatable throwing beast, search for the DEFT HO or DEFT FTP.



Of course he has Deft HO in a "heavyweight category" 

Also has deft edc in "light category" very cute light.

But I think he could get extremely good results with deerelight aspherical host for his new category "middleweight "


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## yiyans

Jthe5th said:


> What UI do you prefer? Or you just follow the personal preference of the reviewer which a large number of flashlights?
> The light has memory though.



What I consider useful is a momentary function and I prefer the strobe mode hidden.
But what really annoys me is, with some other lights when you try to mode switch you have to flash the tail cap very quickly, so chances of a accidental mode switch is slim but the 7G5 mode switchs with slower flashing. This I find inconvenient.

Another thing is, I did find the front and rear springs too short for unprotected Sanyo 2800mah 18650s. It actually switched to strobe and blinded me when I tried to tail stand it last night. A warning for me to go gentle I think. LOL


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## yiyans

coolperl said:


> Please ask this question in 7G5 review thread. This is not a proper thread.
> But to answer shortly, you can change the UI by changing the circuit board. With original board, you have to accept also original UI, as it is. However beeing a pure thrower and having a memory, 7G5 is not that hard to operate. Just leave it on "High" and enjoy your ~800lm and ~60K lux/1m. :thumbsup:



oops! sorry about getting carried away and thanks for the reminder.
I guess changing the UI is out of my league. I have been EDCing this light to and from work in my bag for about a month now. I think I have forgotten about it being a thrower. ;P 
Thanks for your help anyway.


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## Jthe5th

yiyans said:


> What I consider useful is a momentary function and I prefer the strobe mode hidden.
> But what really annoys me is, with some other lights when you try to mode switch you have to flash the tail cap very quickly, so chances of a accidental mode switch is slim but the 7G5 mode switchs with slower flashing. This I find inconvenient.
> 
> Another thing is, I did find the front and rear springs too short for unprotected Sanyo 2800mah 18650s. It actually switched to strobe and blinded me when I tried to tail stand it last night. A warning for me to go gentle I think. LOL



When have you bought the Crelant 7G5? you seem to have bought it some time ago. I didn't know about it until a week or so ago. 
Sanyo 2800 mAh are ultraflat-tops, they don't make good contact one with another.


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## Breathing Borla

LGT said:


> Breathing Borla said:
> 
> 
> 
> not at all bro, welcome to the sickness:welcome:
> 
> my catapult rocks too, get some AW cells and you will amazed how they perform. Don't forget your DMM either
> 
> 
> 
> What is a DMM?
Click to expand...


YUP, Digital multi-meter to keep an eye on your cells, before, during and after use. the catapult won't shut down to protect the cells so you have to rely on the cell internal protection if you try and run it way down.

anyone using rechargeable Li should have one and use it, especially if our not going with really high quality cells like AW.

recharge early and recharge often

Just a friendly reminder


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## 2100

Tat, thanks...will see if i can get the EZ900 1.5A WD pill (multi voltage and multi level this time round. 80k sounds yummy, can compare with the TK70 and see how, also to give confirmation to your numbers.


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## Tatjanamagic

2100.it is great improvement over old rs so get yourself R2 1,5A WD and U will see. Throw goes well over 700 meters. While U can clearly percept object up to 350+ meters...

Also if someone has reflector DBS buy this upgrade for killer throw.

Only DEFT HO (and other costum) can outthrow this fantastic dbs aspheric...

TK70 is not comparable with that it kills everything in throw except deft.


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## gcbryan

Tatjanamagic said:


> ...
> And I would like to add that lux readings are not telling U much about throwing ability of your flashlight.... So when you measure 60Klux/1m with reflector lights U must know that this will melt down at greater distances as hotspot is getting bigger so 800 lumen 7G5 XML led will have less throw than lets say 250 lumens solarforce masterpice xre light.



That's not accurate. I agree with the first part of your post (which I didn't include) and I agree with the last part when you start talking about lumens however lumens has nothing to do with throw but lux does.

If you mean that 60k lux/1m needs to actually be measure more at 10 m and then converted back to 1 meter then I agree. But the hotspot melting away is irrelevant as long as the 60k/1meter number is correct. The inverse square law of light works regardless of beam size.


----------



## 2100

There is one thing that is perculiar to aspherics....and that is uniformity of the lux across the die. The ez900 seems to be slightly better. Admittedly, quite large portions of the EZ1000 DBS aspheric is getting like 50k only. Seriously it is not visually outthrowing my Sunwayman T40CS by a whole lot (and the Fandyfire STL-V6 at that).


----------



## yiyans

Jthe5th said:


> When have you bought the Crelant 7G5? you seem to have bought it some time ago. I didn't know about it until a week or so ago.
> Sanyo 2800 mAh are ultraflat-tops, they don't make good contact one with another.



Not long. It was first released in China in July (on the 5th I think) and has been talked about for a bit. I only got mine last month from a local dealer in Taiwan. Coolpearl's info on 7G5 is the only one I can find online outside Asia. 
Here is a link to the Chinese site if you are interested in seeing some nice closeups and beam shots of the light.
http://www.shoudian.com/viewthread.php?tid=199118&highlight=7G5



Jthe5th said:


> Sanyo 2800 mAh are ultraflat-tops, they don't make good contact one with another.


I am new to flash lights (hence the excitement of EDC a 7G5) so it may be the Sanyo I have to blame....something learnt. Thanks
Two stronger and longer springs would sure help with the battery contact, wouldn't they?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

gcbryan said:


> That's not accurate. I agree with the first part of your post (which I didn't include) and I agree with the last part when you start talking about lumens however lumens has nothing to do with throw but lux does.
> 
> If you mean that 60k lux/1m needs to actually be measure more at 10 m and then converted back to 1 meter then I agree. But the hotspot melting away is irrelevant as long as the 60k/1meter number is correct. The inverse square law of light works regardless of beam size.



Yes I think lux readings should be taken at larger distances.

About size of hotspot. I don't know about inverse square law of lights. But for me hotspot size does have difference.I will give U example of flashlight I own:

Microfire Warrior 3500 HID(lux readings about 60k lux/1m) vs Deerelight aspheric(50K lux readings) running on old 1,2 amp pill

Winner is deerelight aspheric and it throws, a lot smaller and brighter hotspot than microfire. 


This is just one example. We have also tested all sorts of thrower lights(some were budget some were expensive stuff) with sst 50, sst 90, xml can not reach as much as the throw of small r2 die.

Their hot spot simply melts down on grater distances while tight hotspot of r2 emitter throws further.

So I can tell for me only law that matters is my eyes they don't lie unless I drink whole keg of beer 

Saabluster recently find out that only emitter brighter than xre r2 is xpc q4 but I want to tell him that R2 ez900 die is better choice than xpc, and it will last longer.

Maybe I am wrong but that is my opinion since I am in a endless search for practical gun mountable thrower lights and have tried tons of lights...

And one thing that I wanted say especially to 2100 friend that light pollution in cities or towns has big influence on vision perception, and I have to say that throw abilities of certain flashlights need to be tested in nature that has not got any light pollution.

Here at my place nights are very dark(except moonlight), U don't actually see finger in front your nose, so while I'm watching some of night shoots by CPF members they look like they were taken at evening conditions same as I have at my place...


----------



## Chidwack

Tatjanamagic. I am interested in what you find as your favorite weapons mounted light. Also, what weapon you intend to put it on. 

I have several single 18650 lights I could mount on my favorite AR15 but I decided to mount my Jetbeam BC40. It doesn't throw as far as my Olight M3X but it's smaller and lighter. It also puts out more side spill while still giving me plenty of light out to 200+ yards which is probably more distance than I will be using it for unless I mount a different scope on the rifle. Now I am using it with an Aimpoint Comp M3 which isn't magnified and I don't really need more than 200 yards or so because my eyes are not good enough at longer distances without magnification.


----------



## Jthe5th

yiyans said:


> I am new to flash lights (hence the excitement of EDC a 7G5) so it may be the Sanyo I have to blame....something learnt. Thanks
> Two stronger and longer springs would sure help with the battery contact, wouldn't they?



That sure would help, especially in this case. 
You could also solder some very small blobs on each cell on the top, so that the contact is assured with another flat surface. Then maybe you wouldn't have to change the springs, because this might happen with another flashlight too.


----------



## subwoofer

Looking on Konarik.com at the Tiablo A9 and Thrunite Catapult V3, the Fenix TK41 looks like it would beat them both. I've just got the Ultrafire WF-008 recoil thrower which so far is impressive I just haven't done a side by side with the TK41 yet.


----------



## coolperl

Tatjanamagic said:


> About size of hotspot. I don't know about inverse square law of lights. But for me hotspot size does have difference.I will give U example of flashlight I own:
> 
> Microfire Warrior 3500 HID(lux readings about 60k lux/1m) vs Deerelight aspheric(50K lux readings) running on old 1,2 amp pill
> 
> Winner is deerelight aspheric and it throws, a lot smaller and brighter hotspot than microfire.



The reason, why you perceive asheric brighter, despite lower lux reading, is that it has no spill. Hence there's no light reflecting from grass, ground, things near you ...whatever. When you turn on your HID, your night vision is killed by spill light that is reflecting from those nearby objects. Your pupil of the eye narrows and you see less. This is why we do not perceive brightness increase as a linear function. The brighter the enviroment is, the narrower is the pupil of the eye, so there's a reduction in light that hits the fundus.

Second thing is that aspheric beam has sharp borders, so there is better contrast between illuminated area and dark area. The enhaced contrast lets you to perceive something brighter than it is in reality.

I'm not challenging your personal experience. It's just explanation why you perceive beam from aspheric as a brighter one. In reality, a light source with 60K lux/1m (measured from proper distance) will throw farther than light source with 50K lux/1m. No matter, what method is used to focus the beam. You just can't change the laws of physics. Human eyes are not a proper instrument, to base theories about "faster melting hotspot", on.


----------



## GulfCoastToad

Chidwack said:


> I have several single 18650 lights I could mount on my favorite AR15 but I decided to mount my Jetbeam BC40.



Could I see a pic of that? I am looking for something to mount to a RRA LAR-15. If it's too off topic for this thread, you can PM it to me.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

coolperl said:


> The reason, why you perceive asheric brighter, despite lower lux reading, is that it has no spill. Hence there's no light reflecting from grass, ground, things near you ...whatever. When you turn on your HID, your night vision is killed by spill light that is reflecting from those nearby objects. Your pupil of the eye narrows and you see less. This is why we do not perceive brightness increase as a linear function. The brighter the enviroment is, the narrower is the pupil of the eye, so there's a reduction in light that hits the fundus.
> 
> Second thing is that aspheric beam has sharp borders, so there is better contrast between illuminated area and dark area. The enhaced contrast lets you to perceive something brighter than it is in reality.
> 
> I'm not challenging your personal experience. It's just explanation why you perceive beam from aspheric as a brighter one. In reality, a light source with 60K lux/1m (measured from proper distance) will throw farther than light source with 50K lux/1m. No matter, what method is used to focus the beam. You just can't change the laws of physics. Human eyes are not a proper instrument, to base theories about "faster melting hotspot", on.



Hmm... 

Very nice explained but I can give my experience again. Target(black circle on white paper) at 350 meters is clearly visible when U R using DBS aspherical(old 1,2 amp r2) and watch over Karl Kahles 3,5-10×50 profesional rifle scope but when U use my above mentioned HID on same target it is simply not visible.

I was not alone at that test everybody had same perception... So laws of physics are not reliable in this case. So when watched over the scope U can actually see that led aspheric throws better than MF3500 HID although 3500 lumens and 60 klux/meter

If you don't thrust me please try.


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> Hi Saabluster and 2100,
> 
> Sabluster I knew about your xpc it looks same like green xpe I have at my home. But they are old school emitters that will have potential only if properly tuned by you and only in aspheric right?


I used the XP-C emitters unmolested in the DEFT-edc. These are far from "old school" technology. They use the exact same chip technology as the XM-L they are just smaller. The package construction is basically the same as the XM-L as well.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

saabluster said:


> I used the XP-C emitters unmolested in the DEFT-edc. These are far from "old school" technology. They use the exact same chip technology as the XM-L they are just smaller. The package construction is basically the same as the XM-L as well.



At which current? They are probably not so good in big deft?

And I want to ask U as I am no expert is this green XPE that I have same as your XPC? I took a picture of it and it is quite bright for green emitter and looks like your on deft edc. But I got to mention that compared to new deerelight ez900 1,5 amp pill got less throw.

Here is pic:






I know that led die is not clearly visible on this picture but it is in real life. This was put in deerelight aspheric.


----------



## psychbeat

Any tuning tips for my Ahorton p60 kit?

I think I focused it fairly sharp at about 20 ft
but I dont have a lux meter... maybe I should get one?
currently have a 1.4a XR-E EZ900 behind it.
maybe I should go with an XP-C at some point?

Im happy with it already but its always fun to tinker


----------



## cummins4x4

So I think I have narrowed the search to the Invictus or the Deft LR. Any beamshots comparing these 2 that anyone can point me to?


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> At which current? They are probably not so good in big deft?
> 
> And I want to ask U as I am no expert is this green XPE that I have same as your XPC? I took a picture of it and it is quite bright for green emitter and looks like your on deft edc. But I got to mention that compared to new deerelight ez900 1,5 amp pill got less throw.
> 
> I know that led die is not clearly visible on this picture but it is in real life. This was put in deerelight aspheric.


You do not have a green XP-E. That is an XP-C. Although I can put a green one in my light they come stock with the XP-C white LED. The XP-C is not good in the larger size DEFT like I used to make. The beam is too small. In the DEFT-edc however it is brilliant. 



psychbeat said:


> Any tuning tips for my Ahorton p60 kit?
> 
> I think I focused it fairly sharp at about 20 ft
> but I dont have a lux meter... maybe I should get one?
> currently have a 1.4a XR-E EZ900 behind it.
> maybe I should go with an XP-C at some point?
> 
> Im happy with it already but its always fun to tinker


Well I don't have one of his kits. Just the lenses. No need to get a meter just to tune a light. Your eyeballs are good enough to tell you when you like what you see.



cummins4x4 said:


> So I think I have narrowed the search to the Invictus or the Deft LR. Any beamshots comparing these 2 that anyone can point me to?


Well the DEFT-edc LR is not in anyone's hands just yet so no pictures would be available. Those two lights really aren't in the same category though. I'd imagine my light would beat the Invictus in throw even though it is way way smaller but it is hard to say since Surefire doesn't list such a basic spec as cd. Very strange that. But like I said two completely different lights. The Surefire would be a tougher light to be sure and would have a broader beam. It also has multi-modes. Then again you could have two DEFT LRs and $100 in your pocket for the price of one of those Surefires.:shrug: Just depends on what you are looking for. The DEFT is good for having the spotting power of the "big guns" but in such a tiny package that you can take it with you everywhere.


----------



## coolperl

Tatjanamagic said:


> Hmm...
> 
> Very nice explained but I can give my experience again. Target(black circle on white paper) at 350 meters is clearly visible when U R using DBS aspherical(old 1,2 amp r2) and watch over Karl Kahles 3,5-10×50 profesional rifle scope but when U use my above mentioned HID on same target it is simply not visible.
> 
> I was not alone at that test everybody had same perception... So laws of physics are not reliable in this case. So when watched over the scope U can actually see that led aspheric throws better than MF3500 HID although 3500 lumens and 60 klux/meter
> 
> If you don't thrust me please try.




If this is the case, it just mean, that you did your throw measurements wrong. If you put luxmeter over that sheet of paper 350m away, you'll get bigger lux reading from aspheric, than from HID (according to your experience). When you calculate it to lux/1m values, you'll get better results for aspheric which will confirm what your eyes see through the scope.

Laws of physics are reliable. Just your measurements methodology is not.

Aspherics need much larger distance, when taking throw measurements. If you're measuring throw of aspheric from ~10m or ~15m you won't get accurate results. That's why I wrote about measuring from proper distance in my previous post.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

coolperl said:


> If this is the case, it just mean, that you did your throw measurements wrong. If you put luxmeter over that sheet of paper 350m away, you'll get bigger lux reading from aspheric, than from HID (according to your experience). When you calculate it to lux/1m values, you'll get better results for aspheric which will confirm what your eyes see through the scope.
> 
> Laws of physics are reliable. Just your measurements methodology is not.
> 
> Aspherics need much larger distance, when taking throw measurements. If you're measuring throw of aspheric from ~10m or ~15m you won't get accurate results. That's why I wrote about measuring from proper distance in my previous post.



Friend I don't measure lux readings on 350 meters I shoot on target on that distance... 

I am measuring lux readins from 5 to 10 meters for aspheric. Usually I got same results as other CPF members on 7 meters.

Microfire warrior 3500 is strong small handheld HID. Check other member readings they even got 100 KLux/meter for that hid. But I assure U that U will better see target on that distance with aspheric in fact at least with this HID U will not see it at all...

So I wish U were there when we watched over rifle scope when dbs aspheric defy the laws of physics.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

saabluster said:


> I used the XP-C emitters unmolested in the DEFT-edc. These are far from "old school" technology. They use the exact same chip technology as the XM-L they are just smaller. The package construction is basically the same as the XM-L as well.



Need Saabluster my cpf colleague ,

Hope I am not to annoying for U. I have try to contact U over private messages but your inbox is full so U can not receive it. Just want to tell U that you are my idol. Wish I have knowledge to make my light but that will never happen. 

But I am good at testing stuff. Please help me with a choice of XPC emitter for aspheric. I finally found XPC emitters on market. If U want U can PM me this.

So please tell me which one should I take from this palette:

XPC Q2 3A 
XPC Q2 3D 
XPC Q2 4B 
​ XPC Q4 WC *

*I would be very grateful if U would make me a choice of this.

And at which maximum current I should run this so that it does not explode?
*
*Thanks.*
*


----------



## 2100

Well coolperl and Tat, there is another thing that is mentioned by ma_sha that LEDs always get a lower reading on the meter as compared to the HID counterparts. Something to do with the yellow deficiency in the CW LEDs' spectral distribution. Mix that with an aspheric's die image in which we usually measure the hottest spots which are pretty small (say near the die wires), things might not be that directly comparable.


----------



## yiyans

Jthe5th said:


> That sure would help, especially in this case.
> You could also solder some very small blobs on each cell on the top, so that the contact is assured with another flat surface. Then maybe you wouldn't have to change the springs, because this might happen with another flashlight too.



I took the short cut and used protected cells in the 7G5.
Cheers again for your help.


----------



## brandocommando

Not a great pic but it's kind of cool. It was VERY foggy here in Oregon last night, so remembering this thread, I took my thrower out to play in the fog.

It is a Lumapower Turboforce head, with a 1X 18650 battery tube. The XR-E pill is a custom one I put together, and it is (over) driven at around 2A.


----------



## AutoTech

Nice.

I'm going to try and get some decent pics of mine with my mrs' SLR


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Nice work brando! It is bright as hell... I never tried to do costumize xre but I would like to see your pill in my aspheric I bet it would go well over 120 k lux

Edit: I also took pictures of DBS V3 aspherical with new 1,5 amp WD R2 pill. Note that this was heavy fog U actually don't see 2 meters in front of U. 

Readings taken before and are following: 89292.8 lux/m. Measurements taken with TES 1332A lux meter. Distance 7 meters.






U can only imagine what would Saabluster do with this configuration. Probably he would tune that up to 200 or more klux


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Breathing Borla said:


> My Catapult XM-L has some serious throw. I hit two coyotes really far away the other night and they took off
> 
> Every-time I turn it on high I think, WOW this thing throws, you have to lean into it it throws out so much light, LOL
> 
> I am actually in the market for something that uses non-LI cells for my old man but offers Catapult like throw, that may be hard to do though.
> 
> let the search begin....



I just got my Catapult V3 and I now see why so many people praise this light as a true thrower. The best thrower I currently have. I love it.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Now I hope that this isn't considered hotlinking since I see some pictures above that are from photbucket.com, but here are a few shots from my ThruNite Catapult V3. 

Approx 85yds






About 200yds or so to the last street sign lit up on the right






Right at 350yds or so to that white barn lit up


----------



## Sceme

Looking at that Tatjanamagic's picture I first tought it was mountains that were lit by the spread and I was like wtf, those are like 10 miles away. It was a tree, cool pic tho!
Here's my TK70. iPhone image quality doesn't quite reveal the true power of that light.


----------



## roadkill1109

coolperl said:


> Buy youself a real thrower (like Catapult V3, Crelant 7G5, Sunwayman TC40S) and you'll laugh from your poor TN11.



Are the throwers you mentioned better than the Xeno G42 V2?


----------



## AutoTech

Tatjanamagic said:


> Nice work brando! It is bright as hell... I never tried to do costumize xre but I would like to see your pill in my aspheric I bet it would go well over 120 k lux
> 
> Edit: I also took pictures of DBS V3 aspherical with new 1,5 amp WD R2 pill. Note that this was heavy fog U actually don't see 2 meters in front of U.
> 
> Readings taken before and are following: 89292.8 lux/m. Measurements taken with TES 1332A lux meter. Distance 7 meters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U can only imagine what would Saabluster do with this configuration. Probably he would tune that up to 200 or more klux



That looks superb.


----------



## Breathing Borla

nice pics!!! yup the catapult is in the monster thrower category for sure. I love mine. insane amount of light:thumbsup:


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

I might add that the Catapult V3 is the best looking and machined light I have. The 7075 aluminum gives this light some heft. And the finish on this light is second to none. I got mine slightly used for $103 shipped to my door with insurance. Hard to pass up a deal like that.






Here's another shot I took last night. 

105yds to that neighbors pool. Those farthest trees in the background below the pool are probably at least 200yds.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Hi guys,

I now that there are many thrower lowers out there but if you want experience mighty throw U will need aspheric or hid.

Of course aspheric beam profile is not for everyone because it does not have any flood or spill... Only pure hotspot...

This Thrunite Catapult V3 and his 40 000 lux/m is baby for my dbs V3 xre aspherical when it comes to throw (90 000 lux/m).

I think even small p60 deft edc first generation throws better than catapult. But of course aspheric and reflector are not in same category....

I really hate to take night pictures because don't know how to set the camera for night shooting but I can actually illuminate white objects(like barn in above picture) on 1000 meter distance. On 350 + meter over rifle scope U can clearly identify everything that is moving and make a clear shot if needed. 

So when we speak about great distance throw aspheric has better and brighter throw than catapult like lights.

But of course if U want light with mighty throw,flood, and spill catapult is better choice as aspheric has only hotspot.

So I am not impressed with this catapult. Throws litlle less than my microfire 3500 HID... But for led thrower is very good...

I want to tell you that 1 flashlight thrower is not enough... At least 20 or maybe little more should be fine for start 

Regards


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> Need Saabluster my cpf colleague ,
> 
> Hope I am not to annoying for U. I have try to contact U over private messages but your inbox is full so U can not receive it. Just want to tell U that you are my idol. Wish I have knowledge to make my light but that will never happen.
> 
> But I am good at testing stuff. Please help me with a choice of XPC emitter for aspheric. I finally found XPC emitters on market. If U want U can PM me this.
> 
> So please tell me which one should I take from this palette:
> 
> XPC Q2 3A
> XPC Q2 3D
> XPC Q2 4B
> ​​
> XPC Q4 WC *
> 
> *I would be very grateful if U would make me a choice of this.
> 
> And at which maximum current I should run this so that it does not explode?
> *
> *Thanks.*
> *


Sorry about the PM box being full. The strongest of that bunch of XP-Cs listed is the Q4 WC. Maximum current depends on what host and what thermal path. Mounted on the high purity copper I run it at 1.4A. That is the absolute max without taking extreme measures. I wouldn't go over 700mA on a Cutter mcpcb. A better mcpcb may allow up to 1A.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

brandocommando said:


> My exact set-up! I got a Lumapower Turboforce head and a D-mini body off CPFMP for $38.00, and put a XR-E in it. It is running at 2A!!!
> 
> It THROOOOOOOOWS! It stomps my el-cheapo DX aspherical set-up (also an XR-E.)



Wow!! I had no idea you could run a XR-E at 2A? Which bin XR-E is it? Is it just the XP-E's that are now up to R4? Any throw difference between a XP & XR-E everything else being equal?


----------



## rickypanecatyl

coolperl said:


> The reason, why you perceive asheric brighter, despite lower lux reading, is that it has no spill. Hence there's no light reflecting from grass, ground, things near you ...whatever. When you turn on your HID, your night vision is killed by spill light that is reflecting from those nearby objects. Your pupil of the eye narrows and you see less. This is why we do not perceive brightness increase as a linear function. The brighter the enviroment is, the narrower is the pupil of the eye, so there's a reduction in light that hits the fundus.
> 
> Second thing is that aspheric beam has sharp borders, so there is better contrast between illuminated area and dark area. The enhaced contrast lets you to perceive something brighter than it is in reality.
> 
> I'm not challenging your personal experience. It's just explanation why you perceive beam from aspheric as a brighter one. In reality, a light source with 60K lux/1m (measured from proper distance) will throw farther than light source with 50K lux/1m. No matter, what method is used to focus the beam. You just can't change the laws of physics. Human eyes are not a proper instrument, to base theories about "faster melting hotspot", on.



Tatjanamajic's perceptions are a good reminder that there is a difference between how bright a light is and how much it helps you see. Personally I'm all about "seeing" better, but I get my terminology mixed up and say I want more lumens or more lux. 
In most practical applications, "perceived brightness" is far more important than "actual brightness" no?


----------



## brandocommando

rickypanecatyl said:


> Wow!! I had no idea you could run a XR-E at 2A? Which bin XR-E is it? Is it just the XP-E's that are now up to R4? Any throw difference between a XP & XR-E everything else being equal?



As I mentioned it post #76 it is being over driven at that amperage. It is a homemade job, and I mounted the MCPCB to an all copper surface (a penny actually) to help with heatsinking. I only use the light in short bursts of a few minutes at a time. So far I have not had any problems... I think 1.4A - 1.8A is the accepted range for the most part. 

As for your second question, an XR-E will throw further because it has a smaller surface area.

I have no idea what bin my XR-E is. It's cool white.:shrug:


----------



## bigchelis

+1 on that Lumapower D-Mini with 66SMO Reflector.

I ran my personal one at 2A too. My emitter was XR-E R2 EZ1000 and highest pure white bin known. It clocked in at 88K lux or so. With a 1.3A driver pill I believe I was at 77K lux, so still alot more throw then most Aspheric type builds. Well, not the DEFT.

Just so you guys know. Lamdalights.com is currently finalizing the Turbo XM-L 2D Mag. It already does 135K lux via 3in SMO Reflector on a 2D Mag and powered by 3 NiMH C cells. With 33 mode knob its very useable. Plus, I am pushing him to hopefully drive it at 5.5A vs. the 4.5A it is now.
http://flashlightnews.net/forum/index.php?topic=2712.0

best,
bigC


----------



## Tatjanamagic

bigchelis said:


> +1 on that Lumapower D-Mini with 66SMO Reflector.
> 
> I ran my personal one at 2A too. My emitter was XR-E R2 EZ1000 and highest pure white bin known. It clocked in at 88K lux or so. With a 1.3A driver pill I believe I was at 77K lux, so still alot more throw then most Aspheric type builds. Well, not the DEFT.



Add here Deerelight DBS V3 with R2 E7 900, 1,5 amp, SM pill that has 90 k lux readings


----------



## bigchelis

Tatjanamagic said:


> Add here Deerelight DBS V3 with R2 E7 900, 1,5 amp, SM pill that has 90 k lux readings



but using that smaller emitter the XR-E R2 EZ900 is cheating!!!

Good stuff, really impressive and 1.5A is about perfect for overdriving that EZ900

bigC


----------



## saabluster

bigchelis said:


> +1 on that Lumapower D-Mini with 66SMO Reflector.
> 
> I ran my personal one at 2A too. My emitter was XR-E R2 EZ1000 and highest pure white bin known. It clocked in at 88K lux or so. With a 1.3A driver pill I believe I was at 77K lux, so still alot more throw then most Aspheric type builds. Well, not the DEFT.
> 
> Just so you guys know. Lamdalights.com is currently finalizing the Turbo XM-L 2D Mag. It already does 135K lux via 3in SMO Reflector on a 2D Mag and powered by 3 NiMH C cells. With 33 mode knob its very useable. Plus, I am pushing him to hopefully drive it at 5.5A vs. the 4.5A it is now.
> http://flashlightnews.net/forum/index.php?topic=2712.0
> 
> best,
> bigC


That's pretty good numbers he is getting out of that setup. Are those your tested numbers or his? I went to Home Depot today and bought a [email protected] with the XR-E in it. The package says it does 37567cd. With my setup I got slightly over 35Kcd. I trust [email protected]'s numbers as they are done in accordance with the FL1 standard using calibrated equipment. If you'll recall I mentioned having arranged my setup to be as close to known measured lights minus a slight bit just to be on the safe side. I'd rather undersell my lights than oversell them. It appears with this latest test of the [email protected] that that is indeed what I have accomplished. 



Tatjanamagic said:


> Add here Deerelight DBS V3 with R2 E7 900, 1,5 amp, SM pill that has 90 k lux readings


I have this light and can tell you he is underselling the DBS. I actually get a peak reading of 107Kcd! Not sure if he sent me the cream of the crop or not but I am very impressed. I used the DEFT-edc LR light engine with the DBS lens and got a reading of 207Kcd!!!


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Hi friends,

Saabluster friend I think this DBS would be nice for your new category thrower...

This light need some professional tuning and your touch. Not to mention that U would get upgradable configuration with this light so U could sell all kind of saabluster tuned emitters for it... Don't be mad at me Saab I know it probably is not that easy. Need experience time and money and probably with last thing U R bit short 

This EZ 900 r2 with 1,5 runs fine but man if U R telling me 207 klux/meter with your xpc this is wow! 

I have tried my green XPC(saabluster says it is xpc so I thrust him, because I got it like XPE) and light meter says 52000 klux/m measured at 7 meters and converted... But this emitter runs on* 0,5 amp current  *Just imagine running at least on 1A...

And it runs fine with deerelight aspheric. Also Zoom adjusting works better with green xpc than with r2 xre... So in fact U have monster flood to throw ligh.


But of course not everybody like aspheric.

Bigchelice likes reflector throwers and that is fine... I have old magcharger without any idea and knowledge to tune it up(and no people here in darkonia that know how to modify it) so I like that reflector mag configuration with some impressive numbers your friend is offering...

But for my eyes aspheric works better on great distances... I'll stick on that for now...


----------



## Breathing Borla

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> I might add that the Catapult V3 is the best looking and machined light I have. The 7075 aluminum gives this light some heft. And the finish on this light is second to none. I got mine slightly used for $103 shipped to my door with insurance. Hard to pass up a deal like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another shot I took last night.
> 
> 105yds to that neighbors pool. Those farthest trees in the background below the pool are probably at least 200yds.



awsome pics, yup, one heck of light. That why you hear from the owners of these lights, they rock:thumbsup:


----------



## bigchelis

saabluster said:


> That's pretty good numbers he is getting out of that setup. Are those your tested numbers or his? I went to Home Depot today and bought a [email protected] with the XR-E in it. The package says it does 37567cd. With my setup I got slightly over 35Kcd. I trust [email protected]'s numbers as they are done in accordance with the FL1 standard using calibrated equipment. If you'll recall I mentioned having arranged my setup to be as close to known measured lights minus a slight bit just to be on the safe side. I'd rather undersell my lights than oversell them. It appears with this latest test of the [email protected] that that is indeed what I have accomplished.
> 
> 
> I have this light and can tell you he is underselling the DBS. I actually get a peak reading of 107Kcd! Not sure if he sent me the cream of the crop or not but I am very impressed. I used the DEFT-edc LR light engine with the DBS lens and got a reading of 207Kcd!!!




He has my actual AEMC CA817 Lux meter that I sent to him. We all measure at 5M and calculate back. Its actually not that different than what Ma_Sha1 did on a 100% identical build. Ma_Sha1 used the same reflector and emitter as Lamdalights. In Ma_Sha1 his Xm-L was driven at 4.25A and net 125K lux. So, Kevin is driving at 4.5A and getting 130K lux. So, at least it makes sense and its right around what I expected.

Now, what is this DBS with 207K lux you speak off!!!!!

bigC


----------



## Phil40000

As a willing student seeking extreme throw I have the DEFT EDC made by saabluster, the Lumapower D-Mini VX R2 with Turbo Force head that big chelis speaks highly of and I have the Dereelight DBS 1.5a R2 ez900 with DBS aspheric head on the way that Tatjanamagic rocks. I just wanted to say that all these lights are fantastic throwers in there own way using different designs and ideas. I have not got the DBS in my hands yet but I trust the information given to me and am sure that it will be amazing.Thanks guys for doing all the work and testing so people like me can buy an amazing light with proven results.


----------



## saabluster

bigchelis said:


> Now, what is this DBS with 207K lux you speak off!!!!!
> 
> bigC



It is the DEFT edc LR light engine combined with the DBS optics. Given that I measured the new ez900 R2 pill in the stock DBS at 107Kcd this gives you some clue as to just how powerful the DEFT-edc LR's LE really is. That is why I have said it was revolutionary. And keep in mind that is 207Kcd with a *neutral* tint. 

BTW I now have access to a calibrated spectrometer and IS. Just found out my brother-in-law works with these all the time and has for years.


----------



## cummins4x4

saabluster will the next production run be available with this emitter and optic or is this the current config? I am patiently waiting for a LR, don't really want to drop big $ on an invictus...


----------



## jabe1

Are you all speaking of a reflectored DBS, or an aspheric?
Single cell 18650?


----------



## saabluster

cummins4x4 said:


> saabluster will the next production run be available with this emitter and optic or is this the current config? I am patiently waiting for a LR, don't really want to drop big $ on an invictus...


The last and the next run of DEFT-edc LRs have the XP-C Q4. The optic will continue to be the Ahorton aspheric with 60Kcd typical. No changes on that front as it is the most potent solution available for that size light.




jabe1 said:


> Are you all speaking of a reflectored DBS, or an aspheric?
> Single cell 18650?


When in reference to the DBS it has been about the aspheric model. Yes there is an option for a single 18650.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

I want to help U people...

When U R buying deerelight pills with S(up to 6 V)signature driven on one cell. Well maybe U did not notice but they have 10 % power loos after few minutes of using(on bad batteries even less)

So I always take SM pills (4-16V) with exstension tube and don't have such problems...



Saabluster Can U modify me XPC pill for DBS? I will pay U? Or at least can U tune up 1,5amp ez900 r2 stock pill for me at lest to 2 Amp... I'll pay... Tune up your and send me to my address and I will pay the difference for new pill for U and old tuned that U sent to me???

Or one more solution I can send my pill to your address on tuning and U charge me costs? Please contact me if U R Interested...

About lux readings... I have pretty good lux meter... And I have following readings for dbs 89292.8 lux/m taken with TES 1332A lux meter. Distance 7 meters.

Where I did wrong? U said 107klux but I am not getting those results?


----------



## 2100

Can't wait for my Dereelight EZ900 1.5A pill to arrive. Sent out last week....


----------



## amraspalantir

hi bro. the ez900 emitter is smaller compared to the ez1000 right? i have the old 1.2a pill and comparing the two the 1.5a has a slightly smaller emitter. we only need the nailbender 1.4amp pill to make a comparative review. that would be blast!
but then i would leave that to the more knowlegable ones.like you.


----------



## Phil40000

My DBS aspheric head has arrived today, now just waiting for the DBS and the ez900 1.5a LED to arrive and then its time to rock steady.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

The best way to set up asheric is when standing about 7 meters from the wall and focus so that led die is clearly visible with minimum corona around it.

I


----------



## Phil40000

With regards to focusing the aspherical head on the DBS, how accurate does it need to be? Is there any point in shining the light down range and trying to get the beam to converge/focus at the farthest point one can see? I suppose i just want to know if it needs to be done to a thousanth of an inch. 

When properly focused how far will the light reach with the 1.5a R2 led?

Regards,

Philip


----------



## nc_hooper

I just picked up a used EDC LR (it's in the mail). Will be very interested to see how it compares to my existing Dereelight (DBS) Aspheric with the 1.5 amp XR-E R2 pill.

I'm quite impressed with the DBS setup but want to see if I can get a different pill for it (for even more throw). I purchased a 1.2 amp (1x18650) XR-E R2 directly from Dereelight but was disappointed it had considerably less throw than my 1.5 amp (2x18650) XR-E. I think (not sure) both are using the older 1000 (instead of the 900). Plus both of these pills have three level drivers - for me it makes sense to only have one level for an aspheric.

I was thinking about getting another pill for the DBS. From what I have read on these forums, it seems like an XR-E R2 900 driven at 1.4 to 1.5 amps would be a good way to go. But looking at Nailbender's sales thread, it seems like he can guarantee that his XR-E are 900s at this time. 

Saabluster - can you build me a custom DBS pill? I would like one output level running from a single 18650. From your experience, which would be better for the Dereelight aspheric - an XR-E R2 900 or a XP-C? Could you include any of your "recycle light" magic?


----------



## bigchelis

nc_hooper said:


> I just picked up a used EDC LR (it's in the mail). Will be very interested to see how it compares to my existing Dereelight (DBS) Aspheric with the 1.5 amp XR-E R2 pill.
> 
> DBS will throw more cause tis 65K~75K with XR-E at 1.5A and it has a huge Aspheric likely 50% bigger than the EDC LR.
> 
> 
> I'm quite impressed with the DBS setup but want to see if I can get a different pill for it (for even more throw). I purchased a 1.2 amp (1x18650) XR-E R2 directly from Dereelight but was disappointed it had considerably less throw than my 1.5 amp (2x18650) XR-E. I think (not sure) both are using the older 1000 (instead of the 900). Plus both of these pills have three level drivers - for me it makes sense to only have one level for an aspheric.
> 
> Less current less throw. The XR-E R2 EZ1000 can take 2A pretty well, but it does need to be bolted down to the copper heatsink or bonded directly to it in order to see the potential. The EZ900 I just never got any great results at 2A. In my search for throw the EZ900 topped out at 1.5A~1.6A then after that it was just wasted energy and I had a 1lbs chunk of copper in my 2D Mag as a test mule.
> 
> I was thinking about getting another pill for the DBS. From what I have read on these forums, it seems like an XR-E R2 900 driven at 1.4 to 1.5 amps would be a good way to go. But looking at Nailbender's sales thread, it seems like he can guarantee that his XR-E are 900s at this time.
> 
> Nailbender did a couple EZ900 P60 and other builds for me. I had to get the EZ900 from Deal Extreme and sent them over to him. The EZ900, you just dont know how good they are. So, I purchased like 10 of them and some were good some not soo good.
> 
> Saabluster - can you build me a custom DBS pill? I would like one output level running from a single 18650. From your experience, which would be better for the Dereelight aspheric - an XR-E R2 900 or a XP-C? Could you include any of your "recycle light" magic?


----------



## nc_hooper

Bigchelis,

Thanks for your response - very informative. That the EDC LR can come close to the DBS (with its much larger lens) is impressive.

I just ordered a EZ1000 1.4 amp pill from Nailbender. This should be an upgrade for me, since it can run on 1x18650 and is single mode. But I'm still interested if some can build something considerably better for me (XR-E EZ1000 at 2 amps, XR-E EZ900 at 1.5 amps, XP-C, etc). Hopefully Saabluster will chime in.

In your experience, which has more throw - the EZ900 at 1.5 amps or the EZ1000 at 2.0 amps?

Thanks,

Andy


----------



## 357mag1

Breathing Borla said:


> My Catapult XM-L has some serious throw. I hit two coyotes really far away the other night and they took off
> 
> Every-time I turn it on high I think, WOW this thing throws, you have to lean into it it throws out so much light, LOL
> 
> I am actually in the market for something that uses non-LI cells for my old man but offers Catapult like throw, that may be hard to do though.
> 
> let the search begin....



TK41 is right there with it.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

saabluster said:


> It is the DEFT edc LR light engine combined with the DBS optics. Given that I measured the new ez900 R2 pill in the stock DBS at 107Kcd this gives you some clue as to just how powerful the DEFT-edc LR's LE really is. That is why I have said it was revolutionary. And keep in mind that is 207Kcd with a *neutral* tint.



saabluster - I just clicked on your deft link and saw that thing - Wow! that is impressive!! I can't believe I missed that with all the time I"ve spent on here.

I've often dreamed about making some kind of easy to carry with you diffuser that you could store in the battery tube and was quite shocked to see you had done it. Can you sell just your "roll up" diffusers? Any chance you could make custom sizes?

And most importantly, I want one of these 207k dbs - are you/will you sell them?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

rickypanecatyl said:


> saabluster - I just clicked on your deft link and saw that thing - Wow! that is impressive!! I can't believe I missed that with all the time I"ve spent on here.
> 
> I've often dreamed about making some kind of easy to carry with you diffuser that you could store in the battery tube and was quite shocked to see you had done it. Can you sell just your "roll up" diffusers? Any chance you could make custom sizes?
> 
> And most importantly, I want one of these 207k dbs - are you/will you sell them?



Yes and I want that...


----------



## bigchelis

nc_hooper said:


> Bigchelis,
> 
> Thanks for your response - very informative. That the EDC LR can come close to the DBS (with its much larger lens) is impressive.
> 
> I just ordered a EZ1000 1.4 amp pill from Nailbender. This should be an upgrade for me, since it can run on 1x18650 and is single mode. But I'm still interested if some can build something considerably better for me (XR-E EZ1000 at 2 amps, XR-E EZ900 at 1.5 amps, XP-C, etc). Hopefully Saabluster will chime in.
> 
> In your experience, which has more throw - the EZ900 at 1.5 amps or the EZ1000 at 2.0 amps?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andy



Andy,
The EZ900 in my personal builds at just 1.4A vs. the EZ1000 at 2A, well the answer is not as easy as you may want. 

My Lumapower D-mini with 35mm SMO bezel as an example. These use a P60 pill which is similar to the Dereelight DBS or a Nailbender drop-in.

The EZ900, at 1.4A via driver did about 165 OTF lumens and 27K lux
The EZ1000 at 1.3A via driver built by Nailbender did 290 OTF lumens and 27klux
The EZ1000 at 2A via direct drive build by PCC did 330ish OTF lumens and 23.5K lux

So, which do you think I liked more. Well, the EZ1000 at 2A of course. In person it just looked so much brighter and impressive. The 50% more OTF lumens just won me over and the laser like beam was still there.

My goal was to get the EZ900 at 1.5A exactly and have it bonded directly to copper to see if it actually improved in terms of OTF lumens and lux, but it was just so difficult to do the bonding that I gave up. Which is why I see Saablaster is doing such great numbers with his DBS. Its the cooling of the LED that will determine the performance. If you cant cool it the lumens are lost ASAP.


and put me on that DBS 207K lux list too!!!!!!


bigC


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> Saabluster Can U modify me XPC pill for DBS? I will pay U? Or at least can U tune up 1,5amp ez900 r2 stock pill for me at lest to 2 Amp... I'll pay... Tune up your and send me to my address and I will pay the difference for new pill for U and old tuned that U sent to me???
> 
> Or one more solution I can send my pill to your address on tuning and U charge me costs? Please contact me if U R Interested...
> 
> About lux readings... I have pretty good lux meter... And I have following readings for dbs 89292.8 lux/m taken with TES 1332A lux meter. Distance 7 meters.
> 
> Where I did wrong? U said 107klux but I am not getting those results?


Just because it is possible to reach certain levels does not make them useful. There is a tipping point where you can increase lux but not increase visibility if the beam is too small. Sometimes a larger but less intense beam is preferred unless you just want bragging rights. But it is not all about the beam size. If you can significantly increase the intensity then you can have a smaller beam if it would have enough intensity by the time the beam has diverged enough to be useful. The XP-C in the DBS is borderline for me. I will have to do some more work and get an ez900 moddified with the LR to make a final judgement. 





nc_hooper said:


> I just picked up a used EDC LR (it's in the mail). Will be very interested to see how it compares to my existing Dereelight (DBS) Aspheric with the 1.5 amp XR-E R2 pill.
> 
> I'm quite impressed with the DBS setup but want to see if I can get a different pill for it (for even more throw). I purchased a 1.2 amp (1x18650) XR-E R2 directly from Dereelight but was disappointed it had considerably less throw than my 1.5 amp (2x18650) XR-E. I think (not sure) both are using the older 1000 (instead of the 900). Plus both of these pills have three level drivers - for me it makes sense to only have one level for an aspheric.
> 
> I was thinking about getting another pill for the DBS. From what I have read on these forums, it seems like an XR-E R2 900 driven at 1.4 to 1.5 amps would be a good way to go. But looking at Nailbender's sales thread, it seems like he can guarantee that his XR-E are 900s at this time.
> 
> Saabluster - can you build me a custom DBS pill? I would like one output level running from a single 18650. From your experience, which would be better for the Dereelight aspheric - an XR-E R2 900 or a XP-C? Could you include any of your "recycle light" magic?


BigC is correct. The DEFT-edc LR should be about equal to the 1.1A ez1000 XR-E DBS aspheric but much smaller and with a neutral tint. The new 1.5A pill ez900 DBS combo will beat the edc LR though. The size of a light is one of the biggest determining factors in how well a light can throw and the DBS is significantly larger. 




rickypanecatyl said:


> saabluster - I just clicked on your deft link and saw that thing - Wow! that is impressive!! I can't believe I missed that with all the time I"ve spent on here.
> 
> I've often dreamed about making some kind of easy to carry with you diffuser that you could store in the battery tube and was quite shocked to see you had done it. Can you sell just your "roll up" diffusers? Any chance you could make custom sizes?
> 
> And most importantly, I want one of these 207k dbs - are you/will you sell them?


Thanks I certainly can make you a custom cut diffuser. Send me a request to omglumens at "gee" mail dot com.


----------



## torino

wow that Thrunite Catapult V3 is crazy I can not find it but where can i buy that in holand ? i realy love it


----------



## nc_hooper

BigC,

Thanks for even more great information. From your description, I agree that the EZ1000 is more useful with a reflector given the significant increase in lumens. In the case of an aspheric, the lumens are less important, but I would think the EZ1000 (driven with more amps) would still be better, especially when the thermal bounding challenges are considered.

Thanks again,

Andy


----------



## nc_hooper

Saabluster,

Good hearing from the king of throw. I'm very much looking forward to receiving the EDC LR. Any chance of offering the DBS 207K lux upgrade. Sounds like several people would be interested in it.

Thanks,

Andy


----------



## BarryH

That that Thrunite Catapult V3 really is a beauty!!

My problem is not where to find one, but rather how to sneak it into the house without the wife noticing...

Hiding the light in my office is one thing but that much light in the back yard the night it arrives will be hard to explain.


----------



## saabluster

nc_hooper said:


> Saabluster,
> 
> Good hearing from the king of throw. I'm very much looking forward to receiving the EDC LR. Any chance of offering the DBS 207K lux upgrade. Sounds like several people would be interested in it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andy


It is possible. I am not going to just slap something together though. This will take a little time to see what is possible, at what reliability level, and what the best balanced components are. It will also require some custom CNC cut pieces. Not entirely sure yet I want to invest the time and money but you never know.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

saabluster said:


> It is possible. I am not going to just slap something together though. This will take a little time to see what is possible, at what reliability level, and what the best balanced components are. It will also require some custom CNC cut pieces. Not entirely sure yet I want to invest the time and money but you never know.



U will sell at least 100 of them for start... I want that too... U can put that upgrade on omg lumen page as an accessory for flashlights because it will probably fit to other models (fits to every P60 flashlight like my g2 nitrolon). And I also think that reliability level is very important. Even if price of that means less lux...


----------



## AutoTech

As I mentioned earlier I've got an A9 clone. I just removed the led centralising ring and here's a pic.







Looks nice and easy to swap something else in there. I think it's an xpg r5 led? (anyone?). Wonder if there's anything else available on a star like that I could swap in that's better for throw?

Also, check this little fella out..






It's tiny, it's in a 2xaa flood to throw light I have. What led is that?


----------



## Phil40000

Put me on that list, just let me know where to send the money for the DBS 207K lux upgrade! Then it would be OMFG, you could read the tail numbers on flying commercial jet aircraft with that mama jama.


----------



## Breathing Borla

BarryH said:


> That that Thrunite Catapult V3 really is a beauty!!
> 
> My problem is not where to find one, but rather how to sneak it into the house without the wife noticing...
> 
> Hiding the light in my office is one thing but that much light in the back yard the night it arrives will be hard to explain.



LOL, 

you'll be explaining to your neighbors too, trust me, 


I fired mine up on high and my one neighbor was outside and said "what the hell is that", lol


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Phil40000 said:


> Put me on that list, just let me know where to send the money for the DBS 207K lux upgrade! Then it would be OMFG, you could read the tail numbers on flying commercial jet aircraft with that mama jama.



I would like to seek some wild life on 1 kilometer(over scope) with that kind of configuration...

AUTOTECH... From that pictures U can not tell what emitters U have... U should put that in homemade flashlight section...

But bigger is probably xre q5, and other smaller one is xpc probably q2...


----------



## 2100

DBS EZ900 WD tint 1.5A pill. 

With 2 x 18350 Bestinone.net IMR @ 4.10V, measured *0.756A* at the tail

Throw figure @ 45 metres, 42.1 lux. 85,252 cd @ 1m uncorrected figure. Corrected for 10% (my DX meter under-reads at least that amount), we get *93.6k cd*.

Measurement taken at about 1 minute mark, ambient temperature *29 deg C*. So you could go past 100k in a cold environment, maybe more. Haven't tried with ice, maybe next time.

So Saabluster and tatjmagic are correct. This thing can throw.


BTW, it is imperative to measure at 50m or so. Even at that range, you have to work a bit to find the PBCP spot. The hotspot at that range is just about 1.5m.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

The Olight SR51 XM-L flashlight I just got recently is another good canidate for good thrower. 







It has a 61mm head and nice op reflector. If they would have made this reflector as deep as the Catapult V3, it would win the throw contest between the two. 








Here's a few good beam shots. 

110yds






And this one is probably around 109yds and taken from the back of my pool deck rather than from the side on the one above. Now I deliberately aimed down the electric pole line on this shot so you could better see the throw that the SR51 has. Those trees behind the last electric pole is probably a good 200yds or more.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

I'll add that I just bought this Olight M3X and it should be here Monday. And in my honest opinion from the videos I have seen comparing it against a Catapult V3 the M3X will win by a little bit. I'll soon find out. It has a 63mm head on it and a deeper reflector than the Sunwayman T40CS. It's going to win a lot of throw contest between other great XM-L throwers. Whether it will beat the Crelant 7G5, is yet to be seen. But eventually I plan to find that out as well once I get a 7G5. 






I'll include a photo showing just how tight and bright of beam the M3X can throw.


----------



## ma_sha1

bigchelis said:


> Its actually not that different than what Ma_Sha1 did on a 100% identical build. Ma_Sha1 used the same reflector and emitter as Lamdalights. In Ma_Sha1 his Xm-L was driven at 4.25A and net 125K lux. So, Kevin is driving at 4.5A and getting 130K lux. So, at least it makes sense and its right around what I expected.
> bigC



Thanks for the plug Big C! I am glad that Lamdba is doing similar set-up & pushing further, perhaps you can ask him if he is willing to sell me a 3A boost driver. 

When I first made the XML King of throw turbo head shorty a while ago, I was shocked by the throw it had. However, in my "battle in the woods" shoot out, the 127K lux XML KOT still lost to HIDs that were similar size or smaller:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...attle-in-the-woods-XML-King-of-Throw-vs.-HIDs

It's not lost due to throw, as is has almost same lux as my Microfire HID clone (135K lux), 
but lost to HID's "lumens in the beam". In the woods, even the XML beam is too thin to provide enough practical utility compared with the HIDS (forget about XREs/XPEs/XPGs). There is a HUGE difference between 130K lux/1000 lumen vs. 130Klux/3000 lumens, where it separated "Tools" from "Toys", its not just "throw", its also how many lumens you can "throw into the beam" that separate Tools from Toys. 

In the end, the toy got sold (I no longer have the XML). But the Tools lived on, got cut-down even further & become the ultimate handheld monster: 135,000 Lux of throw & 3300 lumens of photon combined all into package smaller than Mag 2C!

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-XECCON-SSK-33-HA-HID-35W-28W-Mod-to-a-Shorty!


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Here's a nice video on the Olight M3X at 100yds. 

http://www.youtube.com/embed/3-XrSRgeqSg


----------



## Tatjanamagic

2100 said:


> DBS EZ900 WD tint 1.5A pill.
> 
> With 2 x 18350 Bestinone.net IMR @ 4.10V, measured *0.756A* at the tail
> 
> Throw figure @ 45 metres, 42.1 lux. 85,252 cd @ 1m uncorrected figure. Corrected for 10% (my DX meter under-reads at least that amount), we get *93.6k cd*.
> 
> Measurement taken at about 1 minute mark, ambient temperature *29 deg C*. So you could go past 100k in a cold environment, maybe more. Haven't tried with ice, maybe next time.
> 
> So Saabluster and tatjmagic are correct. This thing can throw.
> 
> 
> BTW, it is imperative to measure at 50m or so. Even at that range, you have to work a bit to find the PBCP spot. The hotspot at that range is just about 1.5m.



I want to mention that some deerelight lenses are better than the other one. I measured 90klux/m with blurry lenses(emitter was not crystal clear visible)

So It is small lottery which lenses will U receive  Same thing for Tiablo A9 lenses(some gives blurry die image while other one crystal clear...)

I just want to say to Ma sha1 that I have stock Microfire warrior 3500 lumens hid, OP reflector and it throws about 60k/lux meter. I want to say that dbs aspheric(55klux/m) with old 1.2 amp r2 driver out throws it. 

I really don't know how but it does...

Target(black circle on white paper) on 300 + meters was not visible with hid when watched over the scope while with aspheric we had visible target over rifle scope.


----------



## ma_sha1

Tatjanamagic said:


> I just want to say to Ma sha1 that I have stock Microfire warrior 3500 lumens hid, OP reflector and it throws about 60k/lux meter. I want to say that dbs aspheric(55klux/m) with old 1.2 amp r2 driver out throws it.
> 
> I really don't know how but it does...



The poor performance of OP Microfire has been well documented, 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ated-Short-Arc-amp-HID-spotlight-Lux-readings

--*MicroFire Warrior III* 3" OP reflector *53,000 cp*  (measured by MorePower)
--*MicroFire Warrior III* OP-polished reflector *92,000 cp*(measured by MorePower)
--*MicroFire Warrior III* 3" SMO reflector, *108,000 cp *(measured by shinetop, 3 meters)

*There are at least two reasons for it. *
1. The use of OP reflector (Newer models has SMO)
2. The use of 7-8000K Microfire bulb. lower Kevin bulb will have higher lux.

My Micofire clone made from SSK-33 not only has a good SMO reflector, 
it has a lower kelvin 5000K bulb as well. Its a clone in terms of Microfire good looks only, performance wise its much better than stock Microfie.


----------



## gcbryan

Saabuster, you touched on this before and it's what came to my mind in reading about the DBS at 200k. If that is done primarily with a smaller die don't you get to the point where the beginning of the useful range is so far away that by the time the beam widens enough to be practical without a scope your eyes can't see it?

In other words has it truly has become a laser? I guess that's why you say that the XP-C wouldn't be appropriate for the original DEFT.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Don't forget Peak LED's Search and Rescue Series lights, each with a 2.7-inch head and 58mm Phoenix optic:

SR450 450 lumens, 1200-ft range
SR800 800 lumens, 1100-ft range
SR1200 1200 lumens, 900-ft range 2.7-inch head, 58mm optic
SR1500 1500 lumens, range not stated,
SR2000 2000 lumens, range not stated

These lights range from 10.5 to 17.5 inches long.


----------



## 2100

BTW, if you want lumens, you can get a XM-L in there. I have the T6 3C pill and it manages nearly 50k, and i think reflected light bounce is in the high 500 lumens range - not too bad for a light that can be EDCed with a small holster.


----------



## Nonprophet

I just picked one up today myself--killer Black Friday deal for only $93!!!!


NP



ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> I'll add that I just bought this Olight M3X and it should be here Monday. And in my honest opinion from the videos I have seen comparing it against a Catapult V3 the M3X will win by a little bit. I'll soon find out. It has a 63mm head on it and a deeper reflector than the Sunwayman T40CS. It's going to win a lot of throw contest between other great XM-L throwers. Whether it will beat the Crelant 7G5, is yet to be seen. But eventually I plan to find that out as well once I get a 7G5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll include a photo showing just how tight and bright of beam the M3X can throw.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Nonprophet,

You did good.


----------



## saabluster

gcbryan said:


> Saabuster, you touched on this before and it's what came to my mind in reading about the DBS at 200k. If that is done primarily with a smaller die don't you get to the point where the beginning of the useful range is so far away that by the time the beam widens enough to be practical without a scope your eyes can't see it?
> 
> In other words has it truly has become a laser? I guess that's why you say that the XP-C wouldn't be appropriate for the original DEFT.



I would not call the XP-C in the DBS a laser. It is on the border though. But yes there is a point where making the die smaller is of no benefit. Hence why you do not see me offering XP-C pills for DEFTs. This is what I was talking about in an earlier post in this thread. The funny thing is aspheric lights are the ones that tend to get branded as toys more often than reflectored lights even though I have seen many reflectors that have a smaller collimized beam and are to me unusable.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

saabluster said:


> I would not call the XP-C in the DBS a laser. It is on the border though. But yes there is a point where making the die smaller is of no benefit. Hence why you do not see me offering XP-C pills for DEFTs. This is what I was talking about in an earlier post in this thread. The funny thing is aspheric lights are the ones that tend to get branded as toys more often than reflectored lights even though I have seen many reflectors that have a smaller collimized beam and are to me unusable.



Saabluster this is not for you it is for other cpf members...

XPC works great in DBS aspheric! I claim that because I have green XPC emitter in it... Probably because it does not have such big lens like big deft. As U probably know dbs aspheric is focusable, but that focus is not some that U would want to use with xre emitters but with XPC it works just perfect!

What U will get with that?

If U R for example hunter and U R on place expecting game on maximum up to 100 meters U can just focus wider beam, you can adjust the beam any way U like...

When in best focusing position it is just slightly smaller than ez900 die U actually don't need to use flood to throw ability of flashlight but U can if U want...

At first i did not like XPC but now my vote goes to it... But everything what will sabbluster made will be excellent because this will not only fit to DBS it will fit to certain surefire flashlight, solarforce, etc... So we can have killing throw in each configuration (reflector or aspheric)

Looking forward for such mods from Saabluster 

Edit in meantime our member 2100 took some nice video comparing tk70 to dbsv3aspheric, and HID out of contest... at a *600m* target, he says that winner is aspheric. But tk70 is really nice thrower also...


----------



## rickypanecatyl

I haven't figured out mag light packaging - sometimes they have all kinds of useful info on it and other times it doesn't have lumens/lux #'s. A year ago or so I was in a store that had led & incandescent mags side by side with mags claimed lumen/lux #'s on both. The lux on the 2AA, 2D, & 3D incandescents were about 10% higher than on the LED's which had up to 8X the total lumens. (I know they are getting better now.) The point is the lights were almost aspheric ratio in their lux vs lumens #'s. 30 lumens and 10,000+ lux. Does that mean it had the same beam angle as a 300 lumen, 100K lux ashperic? Back in the day I never thought of a focused mag as being a laser beam. 

I do like tight beam angles. If I could only have 1 light and it had exactly 100k lux on high I'd probably opt for a 900 lumen version of it - tighter than a catapult but not an aspheric or Mag incandescent level of tightness. And hey, if I needed a floodier beam I'd get a rolled difuser from saabuster!

And by most members here standards the LED mags with their big heads, small dies would be considered on the thrower end of the spectrum just based on the lux vs lumen ratio.


gcbryan said:


> Saabuster, you touched on this before and it's what came to my mind in reading about the DBS at 200k. If that is done primarily with a smaller die don't you get to the point where the beginning of the useful range is so far away that by the time the beam widens enough to be practical without a scope your eyes can't see it?
> 
> In other words has it truly has become a laser? I guess that's why you say that the XP-C wouldn't be appropriate for the original DEFT.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well the Olight M3X is one bad XM-L thrower. It easily out does my Thrunite Catapult V3.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Here's one more with the M3X at 85yds.


----------



## Breathing Borla

I put your catapult and m3x pics side by side and it doesn't look like the m3x *easily* out-throws the catapult. Although your mx3 pic is more zoomed in so you can see the background better


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

ThruNite Catapult V3 Approx 350Yds


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Olight M3X Approx 350Yds






Look at how much more lit up the barn is and the ground before it and you can plainly see the vehicle in front of the barn on this shot.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

I have both lights and I'm not trying to knock either one for both are good throwers. But it's not hard to tell which one is the better thrower.


----------



## Phil40000

My Dereelight DBS 1.5a R2 with aspheric head and extension to run 2x18650 arrived today. Put it all together and wow! I have some nice dedicated throwers etc but this thing is in another league. I have some XM-L lights that happen to throw well but as far as I am concerned they will never be dedicated throwers due to the diffused spill of the beam, I know that they are the future and efficient etc but the DBS is only 300-350 lumen and goes further than my Fenix TK60 800 lumen light with a much more focused hot spot that accentuates the throw.

Thanks again Tatjanmagic for your help and advice, all you said was true.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Hey Phil, would you be so kind if it is not asking too much to take a beamshot of your Dereelight DBS 1.5a R2 at say 300yds or so just so I can see how well it does? I may have to get one of them but I haven't made up my mind. I hear they will out throw a Fenix TK70 from a guy that has both. I'm not sure if it's the same model as yours or not. But he took a picture of it on a building shining it over a beam from the Crelant 7G5 and you couldn't even see the Crelant. That is impressive. But I do have a Crelant 7G5 coming since it is a very good XM-L thower. Is there any drawbacks or negatives to the Dereelights? 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## 2100

Phil40000 said:


> My Dereelight DBS 1.5a R2 with aspheric head and extension to run 2x18650 arrived today. Put it all together and wow! I have some nice dedicated throwers etc but this thing is in another league. I have some XM-L lights that happen to throw well but as far as I am concerned they will never be dedicated throwers due to the diffused spill of the beam, I know that they are the future and efficient etc but the DBS is only 300-350 lumen and goes further than my Fenix TK60 800 lumen light with a much more focused hot spot that accentuates the throw.
> 
> Thanks again Tatjanmagic for your help and advice, all you said was true.



Nice huh.... It also actually visually out-throws my TK70 as viewed with a 7 x 50. It should be AT LEAST EQUAL to a SR90. What we really need, if we want to confirm the numbers, is to get a 200 metres target out in the middle of a pitch dark site like a desert, and measure both lights. Not at 7 metres, not at 12 metres, not at 20 metres.


----------



## AutoTech

Phil40000 said:


> My Dereelight DBS 1.5a R2 with aspheric head and extension to run 2x18650 arrived today. Put it all together and wow! I have some nice dedicated throwers etc but this thing is in another league. I have some XM-L lights that happen to throw well but as far as I am concerned they will never be dedicated throwers due to the diffused spill of the beam, I know that they are the future and efficient etc but the DBS is only 300-350 lumen and goes further than my Fenix TK60 800 lumen light with a much more focused hot spot that accentuates the throw.
> 
> Thanks again Tatjanmagic for your help and advice, all you said was true.



Beam shots please! 

Have to agree about real focused dedicated throwers, they are a different league. The thread has wondered a bit into what I wouldn't term as dedicated throwers (which is fine) What I mean by dedicated throwers are lights like your dereelight with aspheric, deft, Tiablo with aspheric etc. it's only when you hold one of these dedicated throwers you understand what throw is. I have a tn11 and some call that a thrower, put it next to my aspheric A9 and I call it a flood light 

Come on guys, keep the beam shots coming. Anyone with aspheric thrower get a shot up and maybe I can edit them iall nto the 1st post. Also non aspheric thrower pics too!


----------



## Tatjanamagic

I don't know how to take night pictures with generic camera. Maybe some members have some ISO settings for night shots?

It would be nice to know if saabluster works on better pill for dbs aspherical. I want that 200klux throw in my dbs. 90klux is not enough 


Edit: And one advice for DBS 1,5 amp SM pill with extension tube. U don't have to use that tube if U don't care about run time...

Just put 2×rcr123(16340) inside and U will get 30 minutes full brightness while on 2×18650 on very bad batteries goes well over 1,30 hour...

And please note that SM pills does not have reverse polarity protection(Tiablo A9 q5pill also) So please don't drink alcohol when using this.

I have some bad experience with people who thought that batteries go with minus down and they burned expensive driver blaming flashlight for their ignorance that goes to thought hell and then some came on my mind:
I thought a thought.
But the thought I thought 
wasn't the thought I thought I thought.
If the thought I thought I thought 
had been the thought I thought,
I wouldn't have thought so much. :drunk:​


----------



## Phil40000

I am afraid I am pretty pants with a camera, maybe this is a good time to learn.

I agree about this thread losing focus with the discussion of what I think of as 'brute force throwers', lights such as my TK60 and TK70 which throw due to the sheer amount of lumens produced in a vulgar, wide and diffused beam. They are good lights but certainly not dedicated throwers. I showed my Father the DBS with spherical fitted and pointed it up to the sky, the super slim pencil beam looked like it was touching the clouds. He is still talking about it a day later!

I am trying to set the beam profile up using my DBS aspherical head, I reach a point in the adjustment where the LED square is most defined and will properly test it at weekend. Using the normal head the beam profile and strength are almost identical to my Lumapower D-Mini VX with R2 LED and Turboforce head. With the aspherical on though we are talking playing chess versus playing chequers!


----------



## Phil40000

Thanks tatjanamagic for your warnings about excessive alcohol mess ups! The instructions are in a broken English and they warn that betteries inserted the wrong way 'can fried driver'! Also it states correctly as you said that one single 18650 will not produce full power. I have 18500 rcr cells for great power and more compact solution. I need to get my poop together regarding posting some beam shots.


----------



## cummins4x4

*Just ordered aDereelight DBS-T "M", Cree XR-E LED, asperical head and 18650 extension. Thanks for all the input guys *


----------



## Phil40000

cummins4x4 said:


> *Just ordered aDereelight DBS-T "M", Cree XR-E LED, asperical head and 18650 extension. Thanks for all the input guys *



I can't see how you will possibly be disappointed with it, awesome piece of tackle with this newer 1.5 amp driven XR-E LED. If you go for the aspheric head, and believe me you surely will, make sure you get the newer type as there are 2 versions. Regarding the multi mode pill or single output options, I was so sure I was going to pull the trigger on the three mode item but at the last min pumped for the single mode as really I am only ever going to use this speciality light on high, I don't need a low mode for changing punctures or reading maps with. Simple is best.


----------



## cummins4x4

I ordered part #002-9000 from Flashlight Connection which is a glass lens aspherical head. Anyway to tell which one I am getting?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Phil40000 said:


> Thanks tatjanamagic for your warnings about excessive alcohol mess ups! The instructions are in a broken English and they warn that betteries inserted the wrong way 'can fried driver'! Also it states correctly as you said that one single 18650 will not produce full power. I have 18500 rcr cells for great power and more compact solution. I need to get my poop together regarding posting some beam shots.



Phill,

Glad that U R happy with DBS aspherical. Lumapower with turboforce head should throw better than DBS reflector(but not much). It would be nice to see that dbs pill in lumapower turboforce head... That would be insane reflector throw by lumapower but probably not better than aspherical throw on DBS...

Final word goes to Tiablo...

I just wanna say that Tiablo as manufacturer had good potential to make the very best aspheric but they don't want to develop better pills(driver)...

I have both of them... It looks to me like tiablo has better lenses but their biggest problem is heat sinking so because of that they are probably making very poor amp drivers(0,9 or 1 amp) that in combination with old ez100 R2 die or older Q5 give relatively poor performance ...

So they don't have the right to put "Throw King" on their newest Tiablo A9 flashlight because it is even downgraded in throw on older Q5 model. As I have it and I claim that is "Throw donkey" because they make donkey out of people(including me) with such "Throw King" titles... Tiablo U have big minus from me... and U deserve such critics... Not to mention almost none parts support and plenty of other issues that boders A9 flashlight 

So Tiablo went on wrong way... They could modify and improve Tiablo A9 + aspherical head but no... They are developing Tiablo A60 XML XXXL flashlight that will throw like old Q5 in aspherical mode  

I think New order(by lux readings) in commercial aspherical flashlight world goes like this:

1.Deft HO 
2.DBS R2 1,5 amp EZ900 aspherical
3.Deft edc LR(p60 size)
4.DBS R2 1,2 amp EZ100 aspherical
5.Tiablo A9 Q5
6.Tiablo A9 R2 "throw king"
7.Deft edc (p60 size)

They are other aspherics like flydragon ms2010 that deserves top 10.

Only Saabluster knows limits and potential of aspherical flashlights and I hope in future we will have better surface brightness emitters than r2 and xpc...


----------



## Phil40000

'Throw Donkey' Lol! 

cummins4x4, I just been through all the ordering nightmare you are embarking on......

When I ordered my DBS from Flashlight Connection the later style aspherical was out of stock so I bought mine from a UK site which had the head but not the DBS I wanted. I would email FC to make sure the head is right. I wanted to make sure that I was buying the DBS with the ez900 1.5a R2 in but they were not sure. I managed to get conformation from Dereelight though and I bought a spare pill from them just in case. When buying a light with this kind of performance all the components have to be correct, if you email FC they will respond quickly. 

I ended up buying the components separately from the four corners of the earth, was it worth it? Yes indeedy.

I bought the Tiablo a few weeks ago but sent it back as the build quality was pants, It is a decision that I am grateful for. None of this would have happened without tatjanamagics input and guidance. It sounds a bit gay but it is true nonetheless, thanks man.


----------



## cummins4x4

Phil40000, emailed FC to see which aspherical that they are sending. I will keep you posted.


----------



## Watts Up!

cummins4x4 said:


> Phil40000, emailed FC to see which aspherical that they are sending. I will keep you posted.



Yea I would like to know also thinking about ordering the same package as yours just waiting to hear what they say.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Hey guys

I too received the new dbs v3 aspheric ez900 1.5 amp 1SM WD tint recently. Sooooo happy with it. It makes my m3x and mpp1 look so dimm! Even when powered by 1 x 18650! But put in 2 x 18650 or 2 x cr123 and you get full brightness, then, well all i can say is a big 'wow'.

It really is that good. Got great service from Alan at Dereelight. The build is great and the aspheric lens is totally flawless. A huge thumbs up from me  Rob


----------



## torino

_hey How long does the mx3 remains on 700 lummen? owing to the heat scheme ? before the strength drops down i am looking to buy the m3x but not shure yet
_


----------



## nc_hooper

Phil40000 said:


> I can't see how you will possibly be disappointed with it, awesome piece of tackle with this newer 1.5 amp driven XR-E LED. If you go for the aspheric head, and believe me you surely will, make sure you get the newer type as there are 2 versions. Regarding the multi mode pill or single output options, I was so sure I was going to pull the trigger on the three mode item but at the last min pumped for the single mode as really I am only ever going to use this speciality light on high, I don't need a low mode for changing punctures or reading maps with. Simple is best.



I purchased an Dereelight Aspheric last spring directly from Dereelight. How can I tell the difference between the newer and older versions?


----------



## bigchelis

nc_hooper said:


> I purchased an Dereelight Aspheric last spring directly from Dereelight. How can I tell the difference between the newer and older versions?



The Newer ones have a tactical tailcap that has some type of modes in it......the older one is just a clickie.

What people are doing to get incredibly throw is using the smaller type of XR-E emitter and driving it hard. That can be done with the older Dereelight too.

EZ9000 is tiny variant and has copper on outside diameter of die.
EZ100 is what most manufactures have and bigger.


bigC


----------



## cummins4x4

Watts Up! said:


> Yea I would like to know also thinking about ordering the same package as yours just waiting to hear what they say.



Yes I am getting the new aspherical head from FC. It has been changed to work with the new T models. Also ordering another host and pill to use the regular head.


----------



## Watts Up!

cummins4x4 said:


> Yes I am getting the new aspherical head from FC. It has been changed to work with the new T models. Also ordering another host and pill to use the regular head.



Ok great so if I order the aspherical head off of there website that will be the newer one or do I need to e-mail them and specify at time of purchase. Just want to be sure.
Thanks!


----------



## cummins4x4

Watts Up! said:


> Ok great so if I order the aspherical head off of there website that will be the newer one or do I need to e-mail them and specify at time of purchase. Just want to be sure.
> Thanks!



The one on the website is the new one. You can email Jay to confirm, he is very good at replying promptly in my experience.


----------



## Watts Up!

cummins4x4 said:


> The one on the website is the new one. You can email Jay to confirm, he is very good at replying promptly in my experience.



Excellent I just ordered the same combo off of his site right now. I can't wait! 
Also does anyone have beam shots of these?


----------



## cummins4x4

There is another thread on these here..

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?327065-Review-Dereelight-DBS-T-(tactical-thrower)


----------



## Phil40000

I am poop with any kind of camera but I am 100% certain that anybody rocking this EZ900 1.5a R2 LED in the aspheric DBS will not be disappointed in anyway with the results. From what I have witnessed the results blow away flashaholics and civilians alike. It is a case of this being the best affordable set-up at this time, the market is very dynamic and in three months time another manufacturer could be in this position. The chips have fallen right for Dereelight with this set up. 

Beamshots or no beamshots fill your boots with this one lads.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Could not agree more... fill your boots lads.....


----------



## nc_hooper

Same experience here. I have a DBS Aspheric running a NB XR-E R2 EZ1000 1.4 amp pill and I'm guessing about 90Kcd. I also have a Deft EDC LR and the DBS is significantly brighter (the projected square is about the same size for each). Of course the EDC is considerably smaller so it's quite an accomplishment. As mentioned earlier in this tread, I hope SaaBluster might make something available for the DBS Aspheric. I'm looking at getting Vinhnguyen54's 1.8 amp XR-E R2 EZ900 pill - should be even brighter.

Andy


----------



## bigchelis

nc_hooper said:


> Same experience here. I have a DBS Aspheric running a NB XR-E R2 EZ1000 1.4 amp pill and I'm guessing about 90Kcd. I also have a Deft EDC LR and the DBS is significantly brighter (the projected square is about the same size for each). Of course the EDC is considerably smaller so it's quite an accomplishment. As mentioned earlier in this tread, I hope SaaBluster might make something available for the DBS Aspheric. I'm looking at getting Vinhnguyen54's 1.8 amp XR-E R2 EZ900 pill - should be even brighter.
> 
> Andy



Andy,
The EZ900 Pills will be less bright even if driven at 1.8A. It will however will throw alot more, at least 20% more.

For some reason these EZ900 dont make as much OTF lumens as the bigger EZ1000, so 1.8A is about the Max and what I like driving them at too. My EZ1000 on the other hand can take 2A all day and some I drive at 2.2A. 

I have the Vinny P60 drop-in EZ900 at 1.8A and its perfect. Very well put together and only issue I have now is deciding to use it in a DBS Aspheric or P60 hosts.

bigC


----------



## Tatjanamagic

bigchelis said:


> Andy,
> The EZ900 Pills will be less bright even if driven at 1.8A. It will however will throw alot more, at least 20% more.
> 
> For some reason these EZ900 dont make as much OTF lumens as the bigger EZ1000, so 1.8A is about the Max and what I like driving them at too. My EZ1000 on the other hand can take 2A all day and some I drive at 2.2A.
> 
> I have the Vinny P60 droP60-in EZ900 at 1.8A and its perfect. Very well put together and only issue I have now is deciding to use it in a DBS Aspheric or P60 hosts.
> 
> bigC



Where we can find Vinny P60 1,8 EZ900 drop-ins?

That should be 15000 lux improvement but only if white tint emitter. Greenish or yellow tint( WG ) are not so good in aspheric. But however they are excellent in reflector.

For best performance use WD ( white/blueish )tint is best choice



nc_hooper said:


> Same experience here. I have a DBS Aspheric running a NB XR-E R2 EZ1000 1.4 amp pill and I'm guessing about 90Kcd. I also have a Deft EDC LR and the DBS is significantly brighter (the projected square is about the same size for each). Of course the EDC is considerably smaller so it's quite an accomplishment. As mentioned earlier in this tread, I hope SaaBluster might make something available for the DBS Aspheric. I'm looking at getting Vinhnguyen54's 1.8 amp XR-E R2 EZ900 pill - should be even brighter.
> 
> Andy



No way that EZ100 on 1,4 amp will throw 90Kcd, It will throw about 75-80Kcd because it has bigger die and that makes huge difference in aspherical flashlight world.

New DBS R2 pill is better choice than that configuration and it throws 90Kcd (some members reported even more than that)

But I have to tell U that XPC kick ***. I have green XPC running on 0,4amp driver and it throws 55Kcd like old stock 1,2 amp Ez100 pill!! Note that with WD colour tint would throw about 65Kcd

I am weak at maths but if that XPC thing can run on 1,4 driver that means 55 + 55 + 55 + 22 for 187Kcd for green emitter tint and about 200Kcd for WD tint! 

I think this is real job for nailbender or saabluster.


----------



## nc_hooper

"No way that EZ100 on 1,4 amp will throw 90Kcd, It will throw about 75-80Kcd because it has bigger die and that makes huge difference in aspherical flashlight world." - I don't have any way of measuring this currently so my comparisons are purely visual/relative. My observations are made outdoors, pointing to trees that are 300 to 500 feet away.

I can say that my EZ1000 is way, way brighter than my Deft EDC LR - and that is reported to have 60Kcd - the difference seems more than the jump to 75-80Kcd. When questioning NB he said that he had no way of guaranteeing a EZ900 so I'm assuming that I received an EZ1000 from him. The throw of my Aspheric is about the same as my 2x32650 3.1 amp XML-T6 with a 3" FM head and reflector. The only LED I have that out throws it is a TK70 running 2x32650 (this has considerably more throw).


----------



## nc_hooper

Not sure if this is any verification, but the projected die image size from my DBS XR-E is slightly smaller than the projected die size of my Deft EDC LR.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Deft EDC LR has small aspherical lenses and XPC emitter that is much smaller than your R2 EZ100.

But XPC is ideal for small aspherical lenses because it compensates small XPC die and small focal length of small aspherical lenses...

What that means. That means smaller emitter in smaller lenses = wider hotspot, Smaller emitter in bigger lenses = tight hot spot.

So when U put EZ100 R2 in bigger aspherical lenses like DBS aspherical U will get same (or slightly smaller as U say) hotspot as small XPC deft edc lr during emitter and aspherical lenses difference...

But man if U could put driver from DEFT EDC LR into DBS aspherical U would get unbeatable and truly dedicated thrower with 200kcd


----------



## nc_hooper

"Where we can find Vinny P60 1,8 EZ900 drop-ins?" - you can find the sales thread here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...RE-R2-EZ900-Small-Die-High-Surface-Brightness

Question regarding the Vinny P60. Does anyone know if the driver will produce a full 1.8 amps using only one 18650? On my various Dereelight pills and an my Malkoff M61, full brightness is not achieved on only one battery.


----------



## nc_hooper

"But man if U could put driver from DEFT EDC LR into DBS aspherical U would get unbeatable and truly dedicated thrower with 200kcd" - I think earlier in this thread that SaaBluster said he has already done this and measured 207Kcd. Quite a few people responded that they would love to see something like this available from SaaBluster.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

nc_hooper said:


> "But man if U could put driver from DEFT EDC LR into DBS aspherical U would get unbeatable and truly dedicated thrower with 200kcd" - I think earlier in this thread that SaaBluster said he has already done this and measured 207Kcd. Quite a few people responded that they would love to see something like this available from SaaBluster.



I think he would sell at least 100 of them just for start of sale.


----------



## Phil40000

If saabluster goes ahead with making this set-up available i am happy to send the funds now to make sure i get a piece of 207Kcd action.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Just popped outside armed with my two best throwers, a solarforce masterpiece pro-1 (2 x 18650) and Dereelight DBS aspheric 1SM EZ900 1.5 amp WD tint (2 x surefire cr123).

Before I left I focused the DBS to a sharp die at 7 meters. Target selected was a block of flats which according to google mapping were around 380 - 400 meters from where I stood. Its a very bright moon tonight and there is lots of ambient light where I live.

Sure enough I fired up the MPP1 and could make out a fair amount of light hitting the building. Very impressed, not bad at all. The DBS however, was much brighter. The difference in throw between these two flashlights is very considerable. Anyone who owns an MPP1 and is looking for a better thrower without spending mega bucks, this DBS has got to be it. 

I have been wanting a better thrower for a while now and was just about to pull the trigger on the lumapower d-mini vx with turboforce head, when I saw a thread about the 1.5amp DBS posted by 2100 on another forum. I purchased an olight m3x to try out an xml 'thrower', and whilst impressive in the flood department, it was a let down in the throw department, and I continued using my MPP1 for throw duties. Now however, with this amazing aspheric, I am satisfied.

I know you all want beamshots, sorry I have none, but there is a great 150m beamshot on another forum posted by member 2100 of the DBS 1.5amp aspheric up against the crelant 7g5. The crelant 7g5 xml has been proven to out-throw the m3x, cat 2, cat 3, in fact all the 'production' single xml throwers. This beamshot can be found on another forum, simply google 'dereelight dbs aspheric throw figures'. 

The beamshot made me laugh out loud, you can hardly see the 7g5, whilst the DBS is very bright!


----------



## Phil40000

Hey luminosity, i have the D-Mini VX with XR-E and Turbo force head. That is a fantastic thrower right there, i might try and see if my spare Dereelight 1.5a ez900 pill will fit in it, any ideas if it should fit?

I have just ordered a P60 1.8a R2 drop in from this forum, might try and see if that fits in the DBS as well. Regarding the aspheric DBS head i am a bit lost with trying to focus it. The beam goes a long, long way and i have been turning the adjustment ring and wondering if there is a standard system of setting it up? You mention having a tight die [email protected] 7m, some say 9m, i am a little lost. Would be interested in hearing your, and others opinions on it.

Again, don't underestimate the Lumapower, i think it is a great light and thrower, especially for a light with a standard, non-aspheric head. The small amount of spill that comes out of the Turboforce 66mm head is very uniform and useful. The spill from the aspherical DBS is almost zero, what does fall out falls in a ring which is very close to the focal point anyways.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well that's the first person I have heard to say the M3X was not a great XM-L thrower. It's the best XM-L thrower I have. I'll find out how good the Crelant 7G5 is soon.


----------



## Nonprophet

^^^^^^ +1 My M3X is a throw monster! And I've seen lots of beamshots and YT video comparing the M3X against other XM-L throwers and the M3X either wins or easily holds its own against the competition......


NP


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Hi guys

I am not saying that I think the M3X is a bad thrower. I said that its throw was, for me, a let down. I was hoping that its throw would impress me _compared to my MPP1, and it did not._


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Hi Phil

As I understand, both your pills will fit in your d-mini! They might not screw in quite all the way due to differing threads, but again, as I understand it should not affect performance. This has been reported by bigC.

I found a fair few posts regarding focussing of aspherics and the 7 meter focus point came up a few times so I tried it and it seems to work very well. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of aspherics could explain the focussing for us? It would be greatly appreciated.


With regards the dmini with turboforce, I dont doubt its throw for a second. Its still a very very good proposition for anyone wanting big throw without moving to the mega money/custom arena.

Rob


----------



## 2100

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Sure enough I fired up the MPP1 and could make out a fair amount of light hitting the building. Very impressed, not bad at all. The DBS however, was much brighter. The difference in throw between these two flashlights is very considerable. Anyone who owns an MPP1 and is looking for a better thrower without spending mega bucks, this DBS has got to be it.
> 
> I know you all want beamshots, sorry I have none, but there is a great 150m beamshot on another forum posted by member 2100 of the DBS 1.5amp aspheric up against the crelant 7g5. The crelant 7g5 xml has been proven to out-throw the m3x, cat 2, cat 3, in fact all the 'production' single xml throwers. This beamshot can be found on another forum, simply google 'dereelight dbs aspheric throw figures'.
> 
> The beamshot made me laugh out loud, you can hardly see the 7g5, whilst the DBS is very bright!



Yeah, this is the one... (7G5 and DBS Aspheric EZ900 1.5A WD tint). Visually at a distant object the MPP-1 and 7G5 are quite close, but on the meter the 7G5 is slightly brighter by a few percent. Of interest is also the usable hotspot size, at such distances for throwers, corona does not matter as there is NONE.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Very nice picture 2100 friend,

That I was talking to you guys. If U want truly and dedicated throw forget whole army of new emitters. R2EZ900 rocks...(for now)

Not pretty square shape beam but U will not notice that outside. 
Aspherics are not for white wall hunters they are for extreme scope hunters on distances 300 + meters... or simply for people that are throw junkies...


Edit:
I would like to add when U R pointing any flashlight to certain distant white objects like buildings etc... U will get better illumination of that "white object" than lets say red object (like pure brick wall) or animals at nature. 

In night walks if U have darker tone dog (brown black coulor) you will not percept it like white dog.

I wanna say on larger distances U percept white objects better because of better light reflection.

And I can actually illuminate such white object on 800+ meters with this DBS aspheric while I am using it up to lets say 400 meters for normal use... 


And I think that in flashlight world the most important thing is perception of light so I don't depend on numbers I depend on my eyes.


----------



## azzid

This thread just made me bought a DBS v3 with a 3sm ez900 pill, aspheric head and both battery extensions lol. Thanks to tatjanamagic's post for convincing me on getting this one, I've been itching to buy a high lux thrower for months and can't decide on what to get.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Congrats azzid, I would be very supprised if you dont like it!


----------



## 2100

Tatjanamagic said:


> Very nice picture 2100 friend,



Well, enjoy my friend.  

The 100k cd DBS aspheric





Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 (with 2 x 18350s)





Sunca CS-2206 HID (100W ballast, but powered by only a 12V 5.5AH SLA)


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Nice work 2100....
The Sunca...LOL!


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Wow what a nice pictures 2100!!!

I am impressed! Ultra clear picture... while I tried I have got some blurry pictures on my camera.

Are U professional photographer? Please If U can send me iso settings for digital camera to my PM .

These are all night shots? 
Well these are evening conditions at my place...

It would be also nice to know distance on which were pictures taken?

DBS not only impress with throwing ability it is impressive because its upgradeability so U can put XML(and whole army of other) emitter inside without any problem.

But when you receive your DBS disassemble every part on it. Clean threads with silk rag. Use super lube oil(thin film) and U will get ultra smooth threads. And U need to do this because threads on DBS are pretty dry. I don't recommend silicone grease only oil. Than tighten it. Gently no need for force.


----------



## 2100

Tatjanamagic, yeah those are night shots and it's somewhat brighter than what the eye can see. It's a 0.7 seconds shot so not really a long exposure but not short also. f1.8 ISO320. It really depends on your camera, because you can vary the 3 settings and still get approx the same exposure. Actually as long as you put it on a tripod, it should be good even if zoomed in. 

The distance is about 450 metres. I need to get it this bright, else the DBS won't show, let alone the Solarforce. heh...


----------



## j0sh

Can someone please help me on what exactly I need to order? This stuff is a bit new to me and I want to make sure I get the right stuff. If I order from Flashlight Connection, can I just order the host, Aspherical lens, 18650 ext, and a pill? I think this is were I'm stuck at, is it the P60?. I would like the simple on/off, I don't need the different modes on this light.

I came up with:

DBS V3 Host (No Reflector or Pill)
18650 Extension Tube
Aspherical Head for DBS
Dereelight 1SM Cree XP-E R3 Drop-In P60

[h=2][/h]


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Hi j0sh

I cant find exactly what you need on the FC site. I just went direct on the Dereelight website, you can email Alan at Dereelight for help if you need any, he is very helpful and responds promptly. Delivery was very quick and packaging was superb.

This is what I ordered from them:

On the DBS V3 page, choose: 'Aspherical lens flashlight series-$86', Emitter(LED): XRE-R2 EZ900, Pill(engine):1SM.
This will get you the DBS body with the aspheric lens attached, and the 1.5amp R2 pill. The XRE-R2 EZ900 is 1.5amp. The 1SM means you get one mode ie on/off. So constant HIGH only. The 1SM input range is 3.4-16V, full output is acheived at 4.6V or higher.

Scroll down to DBS accessory, the EXT650 is the extension tube for 2 x 18650 or 4 x cr123 etc. The EXT500 is the extension tube for 3 x cr123 etc.
Without any extender added you can use 1 x 18650 or 2 x cr123 etc. Note that 1 x 18650 does not acheive full brightness as it is under 4.6V. (still very bright though!). 2 x cr123 is full brightness if you want to keep the flashlight short, and are not too bothered about a long run time.

Hope this helps...
Rob

EDIT;;Forgot to mention, also very important....you want the WD tint led ...just email Alan to ensure this. The other tint option according to forum user 2100 is a little too green, so make sure you get the WD tint....Ive got a feeling WD comes as standard but check with Alan...


----------



## Phil40000

I think Rob laid what to order online out very well, i was going to post regarding ordering from FC but it is best to have one clear set of instructions from one person. I Emailed FC to confirm that the R2 for the DBS was the smaller ez900 1.5a etc. They were not sure but they did email me back within 24hrs with the right info. As the version 2 aspheric head was sold out on FC i got one from an online retailer in the UK who sells Dereelight stuff but the advert descriptions were a bit vague and i was not sure which version of the DBS they had (ie version 1 or version 2, the 'S' model). During the wait for FC to let me know that the LED WAS the ez900 i bought just the pill from Dereelight themselves as i needed to be sure that i had the higher driven LED after listening to tatjanamagic's advice. I will venture out again tonight to play around with the focus on the aspheric. My flashaholism is a bit full blown at the moment as a New Surefire LX2 and new HDS Rotary 200 arrived yesterday so i am a bit overcome at present!

I had a play trying to put my spare 1.5a ez900 pill into my Lumapower VX-Mini, with moderate success. I had to play around with how far i screwed the pill into the D-Mini as the hotspot had a hole in it to start off with. I managed to get the full hotspot and it is wider and a little more angry looking than the standard Lumapower affair. I really love my D-Mini VX and it sure does throw some way for a light with a standard reflector. I discovered that my spare ez900 pill is the 3 mode version which gives me some added flexability. I am sure that as more and more people read this thread Dereelight are going to notice that the new DBS 'S' very popular, partly due to this thread. We already know that people who do not even post much on here have been following the thread and have pulled the trigger.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

I am glad that U guys listened me. I gave u data that was tested personally by me. This is best flashlight U can buy in thrower category. Unfortunately I find that on harder way spending lot of $ till I got this results.

I have tried all kind of emitters released so far and I was connected with lot of friends throw junkies like me. And only R2(especiallyEZ900) satisfy my throwing needs, and of course I am awaiting modified XPC that will surely kill EZ900 R2 in throw.

So my advise is following buy DBS V3 flashlight(reflector) with 1SM R2 1,5amp WD tint pill + aspherical head + 18650 extension tube.

With that configuration U will get 2 things in one. The best aspherical thrower(because deft ho is not in production) + one of the best reflector throwers( I think only lumapower mini with TF head is better than dbs V3 reflector in throw but not much, it is better than solarforce masterpiece also).

It has really lot of advantages as a flashlight. It is hi tech but simple flashlight, upgradable(with any emitter in led world), u can change everything in minute all by yourself...

I will compare to tiablo A9(that was my favorite before DBS) :

_DBS aspherical advantages over Tiablo aspherical version:_

- Upgradeable 
- Firmer aspherical head 
- It has extension tube and U can run it on 2×18650 or 3 × 123 (depends on tube U took)
- *switch is much better *
- smaller than tiablo, but that is not so important (when used without ext tube)

- better heat transfer 

- parts support

- greater throw!(because Tiablo did not invested a penny in aspherical flashlight technology it had good potential but probably bad people working on it)

So this is top at the moment but I will be very happy if something better than this occurs.


2100 friend thanks on camera settings. I will try take something...


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Tatjanamagic I am very glad you gave the info!

Thanks to you, 2100, and bigC for all the info, not just from this thread, on the best dedicated throwers.

EDIT;; anyone want to buy my MPP1 or M3X?.......LOL!


----------



## j0sh

Thanks for the help! Just out of curiosity, how would that setup compare to throwing with a Fenix TK35? I only ask because I recently ordered one for my brother and it is the most expensive flash light that I have messed around with so far. It was a nice light, but I know with this one I just want the throw and not the flood. 

I was really thinking about a jetbeam bc40? I think it was, but this sounds a lot funner  What kind of stats would this light have? Lumen rating, distance, battery life with 2 18650?


----------



## amraspalantir

DBS getting more attention now due to the new 1.5a pill.when i got mine with the old 1.2a pill it was hardly being discussed. now with the new pill + aspheric its alive again. . hope to get nailbender's 1.4a pill by january to do a comparison between the 3 pills. but i do hope he comes up with a 1.5a pill too.

nice shots 2100.thats one good thing living in the city...lots of buildings for use as targets...downside is the light pollution.
that 2206 is looking great. is that shot taken after you have tweaked the bulb alignment along its x and y axis?


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Hi j0sh

For info on the bc40 v's the tk35 look here...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...igh-Output-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-and-more!

If you are looking for the most throw and dont care about spill, there is no contest between these and the dbs 1.5amp aspheric.
The dbs setup has what, about 4 ish times the lux. It will throw a much greater distance.


----------



## Phil40000

j0sh, the simple truth is that any light with an XM-L emmiter is not going to be a god thrower per se. Good thrower= small led and big reflector, the smaller the led and the bigger the reflector, the better the light will be as a thrower. XM-L leds are good because they are efficient and new. A light such as the TK35 will have 'some' throw but only as a by product of the sheer amount of lumens being pushed forward in a heavily diffused beam pattern. I have Fenix TK60 and TK70 which do throw the light forward but in a vulgar, unrefined way, and without the thin, smooth and extremely focused beam that a true thrower will produce.

If you want a true thrower then don't pick a light with an XM-L led. For the same money buy a Lumapower D-Mini VX XR-E R2 with Turbo force 66mm reflector (starting to sound like bigchelis). The daddy throw light of the moment seems to be the DBS V3 with ez900 led and aspheric head.

Trying to compare the TK35 against the DBS is truly apples and oranges.

Regarding the BC40 against the TK35 there are some good side by side shootouts with stats ans beamshots in the review section.


----------



## Azlum

Damn this thread! I've been trying not to do it, but I finally caved and ordered the DBS V3 setup listed above.

Now I need more batteries! :devil:


----------



## j0sh

Thanks again. I am going to order the DBS. I have other lights for general use and such just need a thrower.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Hi j0sh

I am sure you will be as impressed as other owners. 

Have fun!

Rob


----------



## bigchelis

j0sh said:


> Thanks again. I am going to order the DBS. I have other lights for general use and such just need a thrower.



+1

I too just ordered a DBS XR-E R2 EZ900 with Aspherical. Its at 1.5A to the LED and suppose to be at least 90K lux. I do have a P60 pill with EZ900 at 1.8A and one at 2A. So, I Know I can get 100K with ease.

For superthrow I am getting the Lamdalights Turbo VaraPower. 13A to the SST-90 in 3in bezel and 125K lux at least.

bigC


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Good move bigC

Looking forward to hear what you think of the DBS!

I have been checking out the Lambda VP Turbos and hope to own one soon.

Keep us posted!

Rob


----------



## BLUE LED

bigchelis said:


> +1
> 
> I too just ordered a DBS XR-E R2 EZ900 with Aspherical. Its at 1.5A to the LED and suppose to be at least 90K lux.
> bigC



I am really tempted by this set up. I may even buy some P60 EZ900 R2 for some of my Surefire 6P's by Oveready.


----------



## 2100

amraspalantir said:


> nice shots 2100.thats one good thing living in the city...lots of buildings for use as targets...downside is the light pollution.
> that 2206 is looking great. is that shot taken after you have tweaked the bulb alignment along its x and y axis?



That shot is after tweaking, in which i am getting about 3.8 million candlepower as measured @ 55 metres and also compensated for under-reading meter. (eg Ergotelis/Bigchelis is getting quite a bit over 10% better figures than me for quite a number of lights). If it's for demo and you can do away with the glass lens, it is at 4.1 million candlepower with a 8.01% boost. There is a lot of throw but not a lot of lumens, it is just 6000 lumens OTF because it is using the 55W bulb (not as efficient). Can get at least 7500 lumens OTF otherwise from the 100W bulb and 24V supply, possibly > 8000 lumens OTF in a horizontal burn position because ceiling bounce is "vertical" in relation to the bulb. But intensity gets down to about 1 million plus only, also the 75/100W bulb is about 1.5-2mm short of the focal point of the reflector. 

I am asking Chicago X to do me some 6061-T6 adapters with his new lathe. (there is already 1 adapter in the light). It is supposed to move the bulb inwards into the reflector, else i could have just added some shims/spacers.

Ok, so this is the TK70 vs DBS aspheric EZ900 1.5A WD tint. *Do note that the building is about 450 metres away.
*
DBS EZ900 1.5A WD tint







TK70


----------



## Tatjanamagic

TK 70 illuminates two buildings on that picture while DBS only square. They are not really comparable but TK 70 is very impressive to...

But at least 3 times bigger and heavier than dbs. 

It is like comparing super heavyweight and middleweight boxing champions  and your 100W hid for sumo flashlight category


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Yes I agree....the tk70 is very impressive...but the dbs fits in a jeans pocket when using 2 cr123 size batteries.....

It depends how much area you need to light up at a given distance. At around 400 meters, my dbs aspheric lights up a surprisingly large area in my opinion. Large enough for my needs  It seems to me the dbs is brighter in my opinion!?

Once again nice work 2100.....thanks


----------



## j0sh

Got my shipping confirmation from Alan, can't wait  I don' think the light pollution is helping 2100's pics. I'm sure if it was in a dark rural area it would look brighter. Still very impressive though


----------



## 2100

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> It depends how much area you need to light up at a given distance. At around 400 meters, my dbs aspheric lights up a surprisingly large area in my opinion. Large enough for my needs  *It seems to me the dbs is brighter in my opinion!?
> *
> Once again nice work 2100.....thanks


Actually on my meter, at 50 metres, they are about the same. Probably that is because the TK70 has a diffused pattern, and also because of the light pollution. That said i can shine on a 200m target no problem, but then i also wanted to show the HID, at that distance the HID would be totally blown out.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

2100 said:


> _*Actually on my meter, at 50 metres, they are about the same.*_ Probably that is because the TK70 has a diffused pattern, and also because of the light pollution. That said i can shine on a 200m target no problem, but then i also wanted to show the HID, at that distance the HID would be totally blown out.



Very interesting indeed.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Yes I agree....the tk70 is very impressive...but the dbs fits in a jeans pocket when using 2 cr123 size batteries.....
> 
> It depends how much area you need to light up at a given distance. At around 400 meters, my dbs aspheric lights up a surprisingly large area in my opinion. Large enough for my needs  It seems to me the dbs is brighter in my opinion!?
> 
> Once again nice work 2100.....thanks



U said that DBS is brighter well it really depend what do you mean by brightness?

DBS aspherical has brighter hotspot and therefore it will throw further but overall TK 70 is brighter flashlight that has lot of usable flood and spill with excellent hotspot... This is great for lightening up larger areas... In my life such lights does not have to much use. It is excellent for rescue crews, police, firemen etc...

But fact that 15 cm flashlight can throw that far and at same time kill in throw almost every commercial available led flashlight(homemade does not count) is impressive. And U can only imagine what will happen when we will have modified XPC for it... 200klux/m

I hope that our friend Saabluster is ok and will invent something...


----------



## Breathing Borla

i am a little confused after looking at the DBS site and all these posts.

what is the max throw DBS set-up? Do you have to order a bunch of pieces or is it just one light that comes pre-assembled that is the throw monster. also, I didn't see any aspheric option???

is this what gives it that goofy shaped beam?


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Check out post 198 on page 7, i have detailed how to get the dbs v3 body with the aspheric head attached and the 1.5 amp xre r2 ez900 led. The whole lot is $86 shipped  And yes that will get you the throw as per these discussions, with the square beam.


----------



## mohanjude

Breathing Borla said:


> i am a little confused after looking at the DBS site and all these posts.
> 
> what is the max throw DBS set-up? Do you have to order a bunch of pieces or is it just one light that comes pre-assembled that is the throw monster. also, I didn't see any aspheric option???
> 
> is this what gives it that goofy shaped beam?



I just ordered exactly what was in post 198 - torch $86 (1SM) WD tint and Ext 650 which is extension tube $12 

Hope this all I need to order.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

mohanjude said:


> I just ordered exactly what was in post 198 - torch $86 (1SM) WD tint and Ext 650 which is extension tube $12
> 
> Hope this all I need to order.



Yeah thats it. Obviously the extension tube costs extra but is required for battery options.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Tatjanamagic said:


> *U said that DBS is brighter well it really depend what do you mean by brightness?*
> 
> DBS aspherical has brighter hotspot and therefore it will throw further but overall TK 70 is brighter flashlight that has lot of usable flood and spill with excellent hotspot... This is great for lightening up larger areas... In my life such lights does not have to much use. It is excellent for rescue crews, police, firemen etc...
> 
> But fact that 15 cm flashlight can throw that far and at same time kill in throw almost every commercial available led flashlight(homemade does not count) is impressive. *And U can only imagine what will happen when we will have modified XPC for it... 200klux/m*
> 
> *I hope that our friend Saabluster is ok and will invent something...*



Sorry for not being clear, I did indeed mean the hotspot.

If Saabluster came up with modified XPC, around 200klux/m, yes that would be amazing


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Anyone who is ordering one of these dbs 1.5amp asphericals who is used to using a good XML thrower, eg cat v2/v3, m3x etc etc, dont forget the dbs apherical has virtually no spill at all. You will be used to a huge usable wall of light from your xml. The ashperic really is for dedicated distance work. 

The beam from your XML will be much more usable at shorter distances, make no bones about it, but the dbs aspheric will come into its own for extra long distance work. If you want almost as much throw as the dbs aspheric, but with some usable spill, then the way to go would be the lumapower d-mini vx with the turbo force kit, ideally with a 1.5 amp (or higher) xre r2 ez900 pill (such as the dereelight one!) as discussed by bigC many many times (see post no. 16 on page 1 of this thread for example), and (post no. 184 page 7 from user phil40000).


----------



## j0sh

Exactly what I want with this light. I have other lights to serve as spill/flood. How about some more pics of the light and beam shots to hold me over till mine gets here


----------



## Phil40000

Hey luminosity, I see you have also dropped the hammer on one of vinny's 1.8a ez900 P60's? That will make the DBS (and one of my faves the D-Mini) a baaaad light if it sits right in the light. I am buzzing with the DBS as it seems future proof at least for the short term due to the light being able to take most P60 drop ins that come out. 

Has anyone tried this 1.8a ez900 beast out in an aspherical DBS?

I am going to the remote woods with no light pollution etc for 3 days next week and you just know the first thing I packed was the DBS. It's time to see what this sucker can do, I will try my best to capture some camera shots of the beam etc. I went to the same place (Forestry commission cabins in North Yorkshire) and the first time I switched my light on it lit up a dear that was some distance ahead of me. I just need to suss my camera out for the best settings etc.


----------



## psychbeat

Hey- hope this isn't OT but I was 
wondering how the XP-C behaves behind an XP-G optic?
I was thinking a quad XP-C from Vanisledsm might be kinda cool. 
If direct to copper maybe 5.6 (1.4each) would be ok?
He's trying XP-E soon.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Phil40000 said:


> Hey luminosity, I see you have also dropped the hammer on one of vinny's 1.8a ez900 P60's? That will make the DBS (and one of my faves the D-Mini) a baaaad light if it sits right in the light. I am buzzing with the DBS as it seems future proof at least for the short term due to the light being able to take most P60 drop ins that come out.
> 
> Has anyone tried this 1.8a ez900 beast out in an aspherical DBS?
> 
> I am going to the remote woods with no light pollution etc for 3 days next week and you just know the first thing I packed was the DBS. It's time to see what this sucker can do, I will try my best to capture some camera shots of the beam etc. I went to the same place (Forestry commission cabins in North Yorkshire) and the first time I switched my light on it lit up a dear that was some distance ahead of me. I just need to suss my camera out for the best settings etc.



Hi phil

Yes I could not resist the vinny 1.8amp! Looking forward to trying it out in a P60 host as well as the dbs.
Sounds like your gonna have some fun at the forestry commision! Good luck with the camera settings, its quite tricky and time consuming. Would be great if you could suss it out and get some shots!


----------



## Ilikelite

I ordered the DBS with aspherical xre-r2 ez900 running at 1.5a. I also want to know if it's worth order getting Vin's 1.8a drop in. Somebody please hook us up with some beamshots!! Can somebody as least give projected lux numbers from the 1.8a?


----------



## 2100

Ilikelite, i don't think the 1.8A would give any more useful output than the 1.5A Dereelight one even on the meter. Unless you employ something like dry ice cooling on it, then perhaps so. Liquid nitrogen would definitely give you something to play with comfortably, perhaps even till 2A.  


Ok folks, take a break from regular LED programming, here's 2.2km. This photo is 0.25s, f1.8, ISO 200, quite close to what i can see on a 7 x 50 in real life (check out the light pollution for this particular area!). Quite a bit shorter exposure than the above set at 0.77sec, f1.8, ISO320.


----------



## bigchelis

Ilikelite said:


> I ordered the DBS with aspherical xre-r2 ez900 running at 1.5a. I also want to know if it's worth order getting Vin's 1.8a drop in. Somebody please hook us up with some beamshots!! Can somebody as least give projected lux numbers from the 1.8a?



I have both pills on my DBS Aspherical.

The factory 1.5A from dereelight and the Vinny 1.8A both are XR-E EZ900. The DBS should come in the mail today and I might not be able to test lux untill this Friday.

With LED to copper bonding the results would be more spectacular, but that is what Saablaster does and perfected. Very complex and I havent seen anybody else other than lamdalights do it so perfectly.

bigC


----------



## Ilikelite

bigchelis said:


> I have both pills on my DBS Aspherical.
> 
> The factory 1.5A from dereelight and the Vinny 1.8A both are XR-E EZ900. The DBS should come in the mail today and I might not be able to test lux untill this Friday.
> 
> With LED to copper bonding the results would be more spectacular, but that is what Saablaster does and perfected. Very complex and I havent seen anybody else other than lamdalights do it so perfectly.
> 
> bigC



Sweet, I'll look forward to the lux test.


----------



## nc_hooper

I also have the Vinny 1.8 on order for my DBS Aspherical. Will compare it to my existing pills - an 1.5 amp from Deerelight and a 1.4 amp from Nail Bender and my TK70. Currently the TK70 (running 2x32650) will out throw those pills. Not sure if these two are EZ900 - I'm assuming they are not. From some thread I've read here, I don't think there is a good way to visually differential the EZ1000 from the EZ900. From what I've read, looking for the cooper border on the EZ900 is not definitive. Given the active area of the EZ900 is 0.9x0.9mm vs 1.0x1.0mm for the EZ1000, perhaps I will notice that in the projected square size.

Andy


----------



## Tatjanamagic

2100 friend,

I don't see light on picture(well maybe just sometihing...) I can actually illuminate white houses 1 kilometer away with dbs aspherical. 

But it is best to use it to 350-400 meters.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Well well well the wife has just ordered my xmas present..


"On the first day of christmas my true love sent to me...

A lumapower vin 1.8a powered turboforce equiped d-mini"...

Hurray!


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Hmmm we could get a song going here...
"On the first day of christmas my true love gave to me
A lumapower dmini
"On the second day of christmas hope my true love sends to me
A lambdalights VPT.....


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

"On the sixth day of christmas hope my true love gives to me..
Six pila chargers charging,
...FIVE GOLD CUSTOM DEFTS...
Four pelican cases,
Three boxes of AW 3100's,
Two lambda VPT's
and a lumapower d-mini"


----------



## 2100

Tatjanamagic said:


> 2100 friend,
> 
> I don't see light on picture(well maybe just sometihing...) I can actually illuminate white houses 1 kilometer away with dbs aspherical.
> 
> But it is best to use it to 350-400 meters.


Due to the extent of light pollution here (your eyes don't even get adapted to the dark fully LOL!), the DBS aspheric only does about 600m max, and that's with the aid of a 7 x 50 bino (so you do get some light gain). Ok i have included a control shot.


----------



## azzid

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> "On the sixth day of christmas hope my true love gives to me..
> Six pila chargers,
> ...FIVE GOLD CUSTOM DEFTS...
> Four pelican cases,
> Three boxes of AW 3100's,
> Two lambda VPT's
> and a lumapower d-mini"



A bad case of thrower addiction and flashaholism:lolsign:


----------



## Tatjanamagic

2100 said:


> Due to the extent of light pollution here (your eyes don't even get adapted to the dark fully LOL!), the DBS aspheric only does about 600m max, and that's with the aid of a 7 x 50 bino (so you do get some light gain). Ok i have included a control shot.



Yes probably 600 is max in light polluted city. In my place I would say that reach is around 800 in dark nights and I said that I can illuminate 1 kilometer distant objects but only if they have reflective or white surface. 

With new XPC things could improve much... 

Can someone tell what happened to Saabluster? Hope U R ok friend...


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> Can someone tell what happened to Saabluster? Hope U R ok friend...


I'm still here.  I have been working my butt off in the lab for you guys. Seriously. Been staying up to 4 and 5 in the morning trying to design something really cool. The perfect flashlight. Not an easy task this.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

saabluster said:


> I'm still here.  I have been working my butt off in the lab for you guys. Seriously. Been staying up to 4 and 5 in the morning trying to design something really cool. The perfect flashlight. Not an easy task this.



Sounds very interesting indeed. Does it involve the xpc? With 200k lux or more? Cant wait to find out more!


----------



## jorn

saabluster has passed 700 000 lux in one of his personal creations. Dont know how useful (small) the beam is, or what led was used, but it sure sounded like a fun toy  If i remember right it had a huuuuge asperic lense. 



> The perfect flashlight. Not an easy task this.


Hope it's a multimode you are working on, the singlemode on my sf mp1 kind of ruins the "general usefulness" of the light.


----------



## nc_hooper

I'm also very interesting in hearing the latest from saabluster. Innovation like this is what makes CPF so fascinating.


----------



## cummins4x4

Got the Deree aspheric today. The aspheric is frickin AWESOME. Easily out throws my SR51!! What a nice beam, light coloured building about 1400 yards away and you can see it light it up slightly and the reflective sign on it lights right up. Easily can see out into a hayfield 4 to 500 yards. No spill which is what I wanted, this thing will be great mounted on a rifle, might have to get another one.


----------



## Jeffa

I would like to order what *luminositykilledthecat* recomended: Aspherical lens flashlight series-$86', Emitter(LED): XRE-R2 EZ900, Pill(engine):3SM. This will get you the DBS body with the aspheric lens attached, and the 1.5amp R2 pill WD tint. 

I will exchang the 1SM for the 3SM because I also want some versatility, and I would also want to add the extra set up that *Tatjanamajic* recomeded of the: 18650 extension tube, and DBS V3 flashlight (reflector).

Which reflector do I need to order and do I need to order a DBS V3 head? Isn't it different than the Aspherical head? Are all of these parts mix and match? As you can see I want to play but am confused.


----------



## cummins4x4

Jeffa, I have the T series, added the aspheric and 18650 tube. Email Jay at Flashlight Connection, he was very helpful getting me exactly what I wanted. I put the regular head on another tube/switch assy with a 3SM pill. Most of the parts will Lego with the other Deree lights.


----------



## Jeffa

cummins4x4 said:


> Jeffa, I have the T series, added the aspheric and 18650 tube. Email Jay at Flashlight Connection, he was very helpful getting me exactly what I wanted. I put the regular head on another tube/switch assy with a 3SM pill. Most of the parts will Lego with the other Deree lights.



Thanks I will e-mail tomorrow.


----------



## RCantor

I find the laser-like XRE thrower most useful in the daytime to see things in the shadows in the forest.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Jeffa said:


> I would like to order what *luminositykilledthecat* recomended: Aspherical lens flashlight series-$86', Emitter(LED): XRE-R2 EZ900, Pill(engine):3SM. This will get you the DBS body with the aspheric lens attached, and the 1.5amp R2 pill WD tint.
> 
> I will exchang the 1SM for the 3SM because I also want some versatility, and I would also want to add the extra set up that *Tatjanamajic* recomeded of the: 18650 extension tube, and DBS V3 flashlight (reflector). So U will have extra reflector throw + extra aspherical throw.
> 
> Which reflector do I need to order and do I need to order a DBS V3 head? Isn't it different than the Aspherical head? Are all of these parts mix and match? As you can see I want to play but am confused.



DBS V3 is classic flashlight with reflector (one of the best reflector throw out there), and for that flashlight just buy aspherical head, and if U use 1SM driver buy extension tube. Or if U R hunter buy cable switch.

True throw lowers hate multimode flashlight but if U R fine with that buy 3sm driver.

All part are interchangeable and therefore this flashlight is best invested money during this years. It will never get old. Physically yes but it will be upgradeable with new tech emitters.

Glad that Saabluster is ok... Hope that U will have some add on for this flashlight(and other P60) also... Not just new flashlight. 

Those XPC U talked about giving 200klux throw integrated many people here...


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Jeffa said:


> I would like to order what *luminositykilledthecat* recomended: Aspherical lens flashlight series-$86', Emitter(LED): XRE-R2 EZ900, Pill(engine):3SM. This will get you the DBS body with the aspheric lens attached, and the 1.5amp R2 pill WD tint.
> 
> I will exchang the 1SM for the 3SM because I also want some versatility, and I would also want to add the extra set up that *Tatjanamajic* recomeded of the: 18650 extension tube, and DBS V3 flashlight (reflector).
> 
> Which reflector do I need to order and do I need to order a DBS V3 head? Isn't it different than the Aspherical head? Are all of these parts mix and match? As you can see I want to play but am confused.



Hi Jeffa

If you want to ' play' then i would order this:

DBS V3 complete flashlight with the xml 3SM pill.
This will give you a useful 'floody light'.
Then order the aspheric head with a R2 1.5amp pill.
Then you can just swap the heads depending on how much throw you need.
Or better still, also order the DBS V3 bare body with switch, and have the aspheric head on it.

Then get a couple of holsters, and you can switch quickly between the two 
You could even order one of vins highly driven xml pills for the standard head now that would be an AWSOME combo


----------



## Tatjanamagic

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Hi Jeffa
> 
> If you want to ' play' then i would order this:
> 
> DBS V3 complete flashlight with the xml 3SM pill.
> This will give you a useful 'floody light'.
> Then order the aspheric head with a R2 1.5amp pill.
> Then you can just swap the heads depending on how much throw you need.
> Or better still, also order the DBS V3 bare body with switch, and have the aspheric head on it.
> 
> Then get a couple of holsters, and you can switch quickly between the two
> You could even order one of vins highly driven xml pills for the standard head now that would be an AWSOME combo



I agree. 

U can choose every configuration U need... That is thing I appreciate the most... Technology progress... That problem is known to people that have great older flashlights with older emitters(q5 and other), and now they have to buy new flashlight in order to have desirable newer emitter while with DBS u simply buy new pill and U can change it in a few seconds. 

Some of U will buy tons of cheap budget low quality flashlights but I think it is clever to invest in quality upgradeable flashlight.

I want to say that I have or have seen better build quality flashlights than dbs but dbs is acceptable quality with acceptable price and time resistant which I appreciate the most.

Before 3 years I had DBS with 60klux throw, and now I have same dbs with killing throw of 90klux so I really don't have need to buy something new


----------



## Jeffa

Thanks guys. Don't need two holsters but everything else sounds good.

I will take this advice and Thanks.

_DBS V3 complete flashlight with the xml 3SM pill.
This will give you a useful 'floody light'.
Then order the aspheric head with a R2 1.5amp pill.
Then you can just swap the heads depending on how much throw you need.

_The deed is done, now I wait. :thumbsup:


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Hey guys

My DBS 1.5amp asheric impressed me again this evening. I was walking in the countryside, very little light pollution, PITCH BLACK night.

With me I had the Dereelight DBS, Olight M3X, Solarforce Masterpiece PRO-1 and Zebralight SC600.

Standing in the far corner of a farm field I could see the silhouette of a building. It really was pitch black.

The M3X did not illuminate the building too well. The MPP1 allowed me to see a fair bit more detail.

The DBS however, showed me that it was in fact the farmers house, I could now clearly see that it was brick built construction with regular windows and a tiled roof. The entire house was clearly illuminated.

I have just got home and checked using google mapping, and the building was 500 meters from where I was standing.

Awsome stuff, only wish I could provide beamshots, but you get the idea. 

Rob


----------



## Jeffa

Can't wait to see how it fairs against my SF UB3T. Thanks for the update.


----------



## cummins4x4

Jeffa said:


> Can't wait to see how it fairs against my SF UB3T. Thanks for the update.



Me too, was just about to pull the trigger on a M6LT when I found the DBS. For 1/4 the price I figured it was worth a try. I am very impressed so far.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

The UB3T is a nice bit of kit but the DBS has over twice the lux. For long distance uses there will be no comparison.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Could you imagine a flashlight that has a zoomable flood to throw optic that was equal too or greater than the output from the sc600 in flood mode, but in zoom mode had 200k or more lux. It would be the only flashlight I would ever need. Hundreds would be sold at the very least I am sure. I would put a deposit down on one right now without hesitation.

What do you guys think?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Could you imagine a flashlight that has a zoomable flood to throw optic that was equal too or greater than the output from the sc600 in flood mode, but in zoom mode had 200k or more lux. It would be the only flashlight I would ever need. Hundreds would be sold at the very least I am sure. I would put a deposit down on one right now without hesitation.
> 
> What do you guys think?



DBS V3 aspherical is flood to throw light! But however it works better when XPC emitter inside. With other emitter focusing is not so great but with XPC is great.

So U only need XPC inside. So far factory does not have technology to made 1A or more current driven XPC so only hope are CPF experts...


----------



## 2100

Heh heh....finally got some 400m clouds, that building just below is 700m away. It's not LED I know but just to spice it up again.


----------



## BLUE LED

Nice beam, what light is that? Could it be the aspheric DBS.

A big thank you to Michael and your amazing aspheric offerings. I really like my Deft EDC and Deft EDC LR. I am glad that you are ok and I hope you create a Deft DBS. Once again thank you for your dedication and hard work.


----------



## 2100

BLUE LED said:


> Nice beam, what light is that? Could it be the aspheric DBS.



Well it's HID of about 3.5 million cd. I guess if Saabluster decides to make commercial his > 600k cd throwers, you can get something like this with the right conditions.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Nice pictures,

This would be great if fitted into acceptable flashlight body and of course led emitter.

HID is driving me crazy with 1 minute warm up time... Like old crank car...


----------



## 2100

Tatjanamagic said:


> Nice pictures,
> 
> This would be great if fitted into acceptable flashlight body and of course led emitter.
> 
> HID is driving me crazy with 1 minute warm up time... Like old crank car...



That one in the beamshot has 8 seconds warm-up time. It's in the video attached above. Very fast.

Surface brightness of auto HIDs is actually lower than the XR-Es. Only short-arcs are higher than XR-E EZ900. So you'd need to bump up the reflector size for throw.


----------



## mohanjude

Got the Deree aspheric from HK in less than week. It really does throw. I bought the extension tube. However I am now using it with x2 RCR123 to keep it nice and compact. It fits nicely inside a jacket pocket.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

mohanjude said:


> Got the Deree aspheric from HK in less than week. It really does throw. I bought the extension tube. However I am now using it with x2 RCR123 to keep it nice and compact. It fits nicely inside a jacket pocket.



Happy Days


----------



## cummins4x4

mohanjude said:


> Got the Deree aspheric from HK in less than week. It really does throw. I bought the extension tube. However I am now using it with x2 RCR123 to keep it nice and compact. It fits nicely inside a jacket pocket.



Running mine on 2 AW 2900's and it is working fine, had to put a magnetic spacer in between the flat tops to get a reliable connection. I am sure my neighbours are wondering what the hell is going on, I have been beaming all over the countryside


----------



## BeamED

cummins4x4 said:


> Got the Deree aspheric today. The aspheric is frickin AWESOME. Easily out throws my SR51!! What a nice beam, light coloured building about 1400 yards away and you can see it light it up slightly and the reflective sign on it lights right up. Easily can see out into a hayfield 4 to 500 yards. No spill which is what I wanted, this thing will be great mounted on a rifle, might have to get another one.



Question for Cummins: Just got BOTH lights you described today 12-19! Please give me an 18650 battery recommendation. I have ordered the PILA charger. $ not an issue as I would like quality batteries. I will use CR123's until your response.

Thank you,

beamED


----------



## cummins4x4

Welcome BeamED

I am running AW 2900 which are flat tops. In the Deree I used a little magnet spacer in between the batteries to get a reliable connection. I got everything from Lighthound including mu Pila (good choice BTW)
I found my xxxfire 18650's would not run the SR51 properly, it kept dropping to low and flickering. Works fine with the AW's. Never even tried the xxxfires in the Deree.
Your going to love both lights, really well made and excellent price/performance point IMO. Is it dark there yet?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

mohanjude said:


> Got the Deree aspheric from HK in less than week. It really does throw. I bought the extension tube. However I am now using it with x2 RCR123 to keep it nice and compact. It fits nicely inside a jacket pocket.



2×rcr123 has only about 30 minutes full brightness while the baddest 2×18650 has 1 hour and 30 minutes... And it can really fit into jacket pocket but I think with extension tube fits better in hand...

I have not tried so far but it has 7 O rings so it could be waterproof? Or 5 O rings without extension tube... They don't spare on O ring like some manufacturers...

And one advice... When U R buying cheap 18650 or 16340 batteries buy unprotected ones. Protected are usually bigger than unprotected and they will not fit into every flashlight while unprotected will fit for sure.


----------



## 2100

I am using the bestinone.net IMRs (the ones which Shao.fu.tzer is selling) and they give about 950mAh of juice at 1A discharge rate as tested on the hobby charger. <<-- this is an extremely well tested cell in budgetlightforums with consistent performance across batches, that is why Shao decided to source for the folks in USA and sell at CPFM. Should give at least 1hr of runtime with them on the 1.5A pill which takes about 0.78A at the tail with fresh cells (later the drain goes up). The Ultrafire XSL 18350s give 760mAh @ 1A.


----------



## mohanjude

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Check out post 198 on page 7, i have detailed how to get the dbs v3 body with the aspheric head attached and the 1.5 amp xre r2 ez900 led. The whole lot is $86 shipped  And yes that will get you the throw as per these discussions, with the square beam.



I haven't had such fun since I first got those laser pointers which have become anti social to point anywhere these days... I know I am getting only 30 mins per pair of 123 's but I keep a spare set. 1 hour of playing around is more than enough. Any longer and I am sure the long arm if the law will be around.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

mohanjude said:


> I haven't had such fun since I first got those laser pointers which have become anti social to point anywhere these days... I know I am getting only 30 mins per pair of 123 's but I keep a spare set. 1 hour of playing around is more than enough. Any longer and I am sure the long arm if the law will be around.



Yeah, I myself got questioned by the police the other night !
I was probably looking a little dodgy I must admit. I had parked up by some fields in the dark and proceeded
to pack my stuff into cases then off I went into the gloom...I was stopped and asked what I was doing! 
I explained my flashlight collection and stated I was playing around with a new one (dbs aspheric).
The officer said "what you got then a lenser?" I explained what it was and he asked me to fire it up. "Holy f##k" was his reply! LOL. He wrote down what to buy and where from


----------



## Tatjanamagic

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Yeah, I myself got questioned by the police the other night !
> I was probably looking a little dodgy I must admit. I had parked up by some fields in the dark and proceeded
> to pack my stuff into cases then off I went into the gloom...I was stopped and asked what I was doing!
> I explained my flashlight collection and stated I was playing around with a new one (dbs aspheric).
> The officer said "what you got then a lenser?" I explained what it was and he asked me to fire it up. "Holy f##k" was his reply! LOL. He wrote down what to buy and where from



Man U R true flashaholic. Very interesting police situation.


----------



## BeamED

Cummins,

Thanks for the reply. Just have to say that I am very impressed with the capability of these lights. Now I am only running CR123's, as I am waiting for my AW 18650's in mail. I was grinnin ear to ear while standing on frozen lake lighting up winter cabins till 0100hrs. Both lights are very well built and do an excellent job for the money spent. It pays to listen to the e_ducated ones in this forum a_nd do a little self research. I would like to thank you guys for *sharing t*hat knowledge. 

beamED




cummins4x4 said:


> Welcome BeamED
> 
> I am running AW 2900 which are flat tops. In the Deree I used a little magnet spacer in between the batteries to get a reliable connection. I got everything from Lighthound including mu Pila (good choice BTW)
> I found my xxxfire 18650's would not run the SR51 properly, it kept dropping to low and flickering. Works fine with the AW's. Never even tried the xxxfires in the Deree.
> Your going to love both lights, really well made and excellent price/performance point IMO. Is it dark there yet?


----------



## cummins4x4

BeamED, no problem. I am anything but an expert on lights. But I know what good gear is as I am a dedicated gear whore, tool whore and gun nut.

I had the local Fire Dept attending a controlled burn across the highway from me last night. I sauntered over to say hello as I know most of them. They were absolutely blown away by the aspheric. Does an amazing job of penetrating smoke.


----------



## j0sh

Got my DBS. Can't wait to try it out tonight. 

Anyone have a suggestion for a holster/case?


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Sales Link Removed - Norm

Its a good fit.

Have fun!

So have you tried it yet? What do you think of the throw ?

By the way..merry christmas everyone!

EDIT: Oops with the sales link... my bad


----------



## j0sh

Haha. It's quite nice. All of the family is asking where to order one. Even grandma


----------



## Tatjanamagic

j0sh said:


> Haha. It's quite nice. All of the family is asking where to order one. Even grandma



LOL I will die laughing...


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

j0sh said:


> Haha. It's quite nice. All of the family is asking where to order one. Even grandma



LOL!


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Almost all of my work/personal usage only requires a floody for distances of say 20m or less. But I'm finding this topic intriguing; to be able to "reach out and touch someone/thing." I have a new Maglite 2D LED that has an ANSI FL1 claim of 388 meters of throw. Is that a good starter thrower? Perhaps I'll get myself that SkyRay STL-V2 thingy too.


----------



## cccpull

JohnnyBravo said:


> Almost all of my work/personal usage only requires a floody for distances of say 20m or less. But I'm finding this topic intriguing; to be able to "reach out and touch someone/thing." I have a new Maglite 2D LED that has an ANSI FL1 claim of 388 meters of throw. Is that a good starter thrower? Perhaps I'll get myself that SkyRay STL-V2 thingy too.



Yep. That's an inexpensive(bang for the buck) thrower. It's not in the league of the more expensive lights being discussed, but it definitely has throw, easily over 200yd. Haven't really measured any further since I can't see clearly any further without binoculars at night:shakehead. For that stuff I use hid spotlights.


----------



## selfbuilt

coolperl said:


> If you want a pure thrower that is powered by AA cells, consider Fenix TK41 or Lumintop PK30.


FYI, my review of the PK30 is now up:

Lumintop PK30 (XM-L, 6xAA) "Thrower" Review: BEAMSHOTS, VIDEO, RUNTIMES and more!

It is an impressive thrower (i.e. Thrunite Catapult territory), on only 6xAA. The contrinuously-variable interface is pretty neat too (and remarkably efficient). Check out the review for more info. :wave:


----------



## j0sh

I have a friend that is about to order this light now  What is needed to make it more like a regular light? for the flood? just a smooth or orange peel reflector? Basically can you just swap that out with the aspherical?


----------



## Locoboy5150

When it comes to LED throw lights, there really is only one that immediately comes to my mind, the DEFT. Nothing even remotely comes close.

It's also the light that showed me how totally useless an LED flashlight 100% dedicated to throw really is.


----------



## cccpull

Locoboy5150 said:


> When it comes to LED throw lights, there really is only one that immediately comes to my mind, the DEFT. Nothing even remotely comes close.
> 
> It's also the light that showed me how totally useless an LED flashlight 100% dedicated to throw really is.



Words escape me. After reading this whole thread it almost seamed as the proper ending.


----------



## cummins4x4

Locoboy5150 said:


> When it comes to LED throw lights, there really is only one that immediately comes to my mind, the DEFT. Nothing even remotely comes close.
> 
> It's also the light that showed me how totally useless an LED flashlight 100% dedicated to throw really is.



Words escape me too:sick2: I use my Deree all the time, yes sometimes massive walls of light are desirable but so is a pencil beam that can get into a tight spot with out blinding you with spill.:shrug:


----------



## GulfCoastToad

Locoboy5150 said:


> It's also the light that showed me how totally useless an LED flashlight 100% dedicated to throw really is.



Tell that to the dead hogs I shot last weekend. Scope mounted DEFT EDC-LR can't be touched by the competition.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Locoboy5150 said:


> When it comes to LED throw lights, there really is only one that immediately comes to my mind, the DEFT. Nothing even remotely comes close.
> 
> It's also the light that showed me how totally useless an LED flashlight 100% dedicated to throw really is.



Wow. Thats a big statement. This thread is about dedicated throwers. They are not meant for spill, they are about illuminating a distant object. 
I hope you dont put people off buying one. They do what they do very well.


----------



## Phil40000

Don't take the bait chaps, this is a great thread.


----------



## cccpull

Phil40000 said:


> Don't take the bait chaps, this is a great thread.



It is, but after reading all 10 pages of this thread (which for the most part everyone agrees the "DEFT" is the top dog) it struck me really funny. But we could agree it's for a specialized use. Most people would have little use for a strict thrower.


----------



## 2100

You can fit a diffusor over the Dereelight DBS aspheric or tailstand it, the DBS V3 tailstands very well.


----------



## 2100

BTW, the Varapower Turbo nets you about 160k cd. So i am sure it can hang around with the DEFT. There are differences of course.

So I am not sure i'd agree with those 2 statements.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

cccpull said:


> It is, but after reading all 10 pages of this thread (which for the most part everyone agrees the "DEFT" is the top dog) it struck me really funny. But we could agree it's for a specialized use. Most people would have little use for a strict thrower.



Yeah, some people need to throw that far and some people are just throw junkies.
It all started for me as a need for my work. But then it became fun. So now I need one for work AND I am a throw junkie also


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Locoboy5150 said:


> When it comes to LED throw lights, there really is only one that immediately comes to my mind, the DEFT. Nothing even remotely comes close.
> 
> It's also the light that showed me how totally useless an LED flashlight 100% dedicated to throw really is.



Man you are absolutely and 100% wrong. This is thread about dedicated throwers. DEFT and DBS aspheric with 1,5 amp R2 driver are kings in this category. But as big DEFT ho is not commercial available DBS aspheric with 100klux/m throw takes win.

I have tried almost all famous brand reflector led throwers, and I have only one conclusion DBS 1,5amp aspheric kills them all in a terms of throw.

Beam coming from DBS aspheric is for special purposes. The best use has in scope hunting. It has better throw than deft edc lr 

Aspheric perfectly covers scope field of view.

When U spot animal with standard reflector light u will have a lot of flood and side spill. Flood and side spill freaks out the animals. For example when U search for animal at approx. 200 meters away U R easily spotted by them during lot of flood and side spill because game percepts that very well. 

When I used reflectors for scope hunting I had lot of bad experience that does not happen to me with aspheric. When I was searching for animal at night and lid some bush on 100-200 meters animal that was caught with flashlight side spill 40 meters from that bush start to run away. 

That things are not happening with aspheric because when U R in this "bush" situation I mentioned above and same animal 30 meters from bush it will not make run because it does not percept aspheric hotspot. It will percept only when U come directly to animal. So when U find game with aspheric hotspot it only stunes and confuses animal and U have plenty of time to take a picture of game 

So my conclusion is that DBS V3 aspheric with 1,5 amp driver is best for scope long distance hunting. 


When we talk about commercial available dedicated LED throwers DBS V3 aspherical 1,5 amp R2 EZ900 is king.

If somebody has something better to offer than this I will carefully listen...


----------



## 2100

Tat, the Tiablo A9 with EZ1000 gets about 90k cd right? The Tiablo A9 has literally the same diameter lens as the DBS aspheric.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

No 2100. You are wrong.

Tiablo A9 has 1amp driver which in combination with EZ1000 gives only(If it is just only  ) 50 klux/m throw

I don't know how but I have better results with Tiablo A9 running on Q5 emitter. 55Klux/m

Lenses are not same I even have pictures of them. DBS has higher and wider lenses than A9 but however it seems that A9 has better focal lenght so it concentrates light even better.

I have tried to swap them but no way... They are not interchangeable... So they are special balanced for A9 and DBS.


----------



## Locoboy5150

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to insult anyone or step on anyone's toes. I should have said that a dedicated throw light like the DEFT is useless for my particular use. Prior to getting my hands on a DEFT and a Dereelight I had never used a dedicated throw light before so they were the models that showed me that they were not for what I use my lights for.

Note that I don't hunt (I don't even own a firearm) so a light for that purpose has no practical use in my life. I certainly don't hold it against anyone that does need such a light though.

Oh and for the record, I was not trolling/baiting this thread. I never do that on this or any other message board that I read. Life is way too short to do that in my opinion.


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## Tatjanamagic

No problem man.
It is true that aspheric is not for everyone but it has usable light. Not to mention it will not spoil your night vision like classic throwers.

I just wanna say "one light is not enough"... I have reflector and aspheric throwers and I even spend some $ on HID.


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## Gregozedobe

I have absolutely no practical use for a DBS aspheric head and special vinnh XRE drop-in. But that hasn't stopped me from ordering the bits to make up my own "throw monster", and I'm sure I'll enjoy seeing what it can do. IF I only bought things I had a serious practical use for I would miss out on a lot of fun, so I don't restrict myself.


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## luminositykilledthecat...

Gregozedobe said:


> I have absolutely no practical use for a DBS aspheric head and special vinnh XRE drop-in. But that hasn't stopped me from ordering the bits to make up my own "throw monster", and I'm sure I'll enjoy seeing what it can do. IF I only bought things I had a serious practical use for I would miss out on a lot of fun, so I don't restrict myself.


Yeah man, I am sure anyone interested in flashlights would have fun with a thrower as capable as this, even those with no real need for one. Its all part of the flashaholic thing.  For my flood needs my sc600 provides all I ever need, but that will not stop me from pulling the trigger on a DRY 3 Direct drive tripple xml


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## luminositykilledthecat...

Left to right: (reduced exposure)
Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1, Dereelight DBS V3 Aspheric 1.5amp EZ900, Olight M3X, Crelant 7G5.
DBS beats the pro-1, pro-1 beats the m3x, m3x beats the 7g5. Not sure why I have such a big difference between the 7g5 and m3x?!?
You can clearly see how bright the DBS is, even though this picture does not do the DBS justice tbh, it is way way brighter than the others.

Rob


----------



## cummins4x4

luminositykilledthecat that is an awesome pic, should put the debate to rest for those that don't have the Deree aspherical YET


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

cummins4x4 said:


> luminositykilledthecat that is an awesome pic, should put the debate to rest for those that don't have the Deree aspherical YET



Thanks man. I know this is often said and less often acheived, but I will try to get some outside beamshots too.

I think my Crelant 7G5 is underperforming for some reason.....will try to sort it out.


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## Jay611j

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Left to right: (reduced exposure)
> Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1, Dereelight DBS V3 Aspheric 1.5amp EZ900, Olight M3X, Crelant 7G5.
> DBS beats the pro-1, pro-1 beats the m3x, m3x beats the 7g5. Not sure why I have such a big difference between the 7g5 and m3x?!?
> You can clearly see how bright the DBS is, even though this picture does not do the DBS justice tbh, it is way way brighter than the others.
> 
> Rob



Finally some beamshots, thank you! The DBS looks awesome. I already know I want the DBS, but it has been out of stock .


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## luminositykilledthecat...

Jay611j said:


> Finally some beamshots, thank you! The DBS looks awesome. I already know I want the DBS, but it has been out of stock .



Thanks, lol jay did we just post at exactly the same time? Out of stock where? Have you tried Dereelights website?


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## cummins4x4

saabluster said:


> I'm still here.  I have been working my butt off in the lab for you guys. Seriously. Been staying up to 4 and 5 in the morning trying to design something really cool. The perfect flashlight. Not an easy task this.



saabluster, after playing with the DBS aspheric for the last couple of weeks I have come to one conclusion.... I NEED MORE POWER!!!!:devil: Any update on the pill discussed earlier? I am in for one or two..


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## luminositykilledthecat...

cummins4x4 said:


> saabluster, after playing with the DBS aspheric for the last couple of weeks I have come to one conclusion.... I NEED MORE POWER!!!!:devil: Any update on the pill discussed earlier? I am in for one or two..



Yeah hows it going?


----------



## Jay611j

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Thanks, lol jay did we just post at exactly the same time? Out of stock where? Have you tried Dereelights website?


lol we did, I didn't even notice the time. I have had my eye on Flashlightconnection.com and it has been out of stock, I was hoping to purchase from them as I am in California as well. If I bought it directly from Dereelight then I would imagine it would ship from China I believe (long wait). Where did you buy yours from?


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## mohanjude

Jay611j said:


> lol we did, I didn't even notice the time. I have had my eye on Flashlightconnection.com and it has been out of stock, I was hoping to purchase from them as I am in California as well. If I bought it directly from Dereelight then I would imagine it would ship from China I believe (long wait). Where did you buy yours from?



I bought mine from Dereelight themselves directly - paid the $20 upgrade fee and got in 3 days (shipped on a friday and received on a Monday) -- China to UK. I didn't fancy waiting for a package in the system during the xmas rush.

I actually have a 'legitimate' purpose for this light - looking for house numbers during house calls - this light is a dream as I can see flat numbers of entire blocks from 'miles'. I used to flash a TM11 around and woke up half the residents as they didn't appreciate a bright throw of the TM11 bouncing off their ceilings while they were asleep.

The guy who drives me around for the house visits now wants one ... every time he sees mine he just goes nuts. I have just ordered another from Dereelight!


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## Jay611j

mohanjude said:


> I bought mine from Dereelight themselves directly - paid the $20 upgrade fee and got in 3 days (shipped on a friday and received on a Monday) -- China to UK. I didn't fancy waiting for a package in the system during the xmas rush.
> 
> I actually have a 'legitimate' purpose for this light - looking for house numbers during house calls - this light is a dream as I can see flat numbers of entire blocks from 'miles'. I used to flash a TM11 around and woke up half the residents as they didn't appreciate a bright throw of the TM11 bouncing off their ceilings while they were asleep.
> 
> The guy who drives me around for the house visits now wants one ... every time he sees mine he just goes nuts. I have just ordered another from Dereelight!


Wow, that's fast! I will check out their website, thanks. By the way, did you guys get the V3 or T model?


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## mohanjude

I got the V3 as recommended by this thread. My handle says CL1H V4 - why is that? Is that the number on the V3?

Sent from my ViewPad7 using Tapatalk


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## 2100

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Yeah hows it going?


For your Crelant 7G5, that is the highest mode? The medium mode is even lower than that? I think Ilikeflashlight's 7G5 is also underdriven (though it is taking in 1.65A at the tail, which is good). I've got my M3X, and in pictures it is about the same as your case with the MPP-1. But my Crelant 7G5, even swapped out with a lower bin T6, still cannot be differentiated from the M3X in the pictures. (ie 7G5 660 lux, M3X 703 lux)


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## Jay611j

mohanjude said:


> I got the V3 as recommended by this thread. My handle says CL1H V4 - why is that? Is that the number on the V3?
> 
> Sent from my ViewPad7 using Tapatalk


 Ok thanks. They have a V4 now? lol wonder why it says that.


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## luminositykilledthecat...

2100 said:


> For your Crelant 7G5, that is the highest mode? The medium mode is even lower than that? I think Ilikeflashlight's 7G5 is also underdriven (though it is taking in 1.65A at the tail, which is good). I've got my M3X, and in pictures it is about the same as your case with the MPP-1. But my Crelant 7G5, even swapped out with a lower bin T6, still cannot be differentiated from the M3X in the pictures. (ie 7G5 660 lux, M3X 703 lux)


Ok. I have fixed my crelant. LOL. All I did was take it to pieces and put it back together again. Now it looks more or less the same as the m3x. What was going on ?. Never had that before. I will take a new photo. There is now a big difference between low and high. Phew.


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## RCantor

I use a Nailbender XRE behind a DX aspheric in a solarforce host. Total price <$60. Now that he has the XP-C that will be even brighter.

As for the usefulness of a thrower, I use it for seeing in the shadows during the day. It's particularly useful in the forest.


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## 2100

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Ok. I have fixed my crelant. LOL. All I did was take it to pieces and put it back together again. Now it looks more or less the same as the m3x. What was going on ?. Never had that before. I will take a new photo. There is now a big difference between low and high. Phew.



I see. ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS had the same "issue" as well, you can read it in budgetlightforum (unfortunately if i put the link here i'd be banned, as i have been before). We were having a discussion about that with the M3X beating the Crelant 7G5 to pieces. I actually purchased the M3X just to confirm that....in the end the 7G5 did come out wee bit slightly better, but indistinguishable in real life as you'd have experienced. It's 703 lux for the M3X vs 734 lux for the 7G5. If I have time i'll do 55m measurements.


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## cummins4x4

Jay611j said:


> lol we did, I didn't even notice the time. I have had my eye on Flashlightconnection.com and it has been out of stock, I was hoping to purchase from them as I am in California as well. If I bought it directly from Dereelight then I would imagine it would ship from China I believe (long wait). Where did you buy yours from?



Looks like Jay at FC has some stock again.
Good story mohanjude, sounds like you converted one of the unenlightened.


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## Tatjanamagic

I have told U in begging of this thread that whole army of new emitters can not compete to old XRE in a terms of throw. Above pictures confirms that. 

So it is very simple now. 

When we talk about aspheric led dedicated throwers 1 st. place goes to DBS V3 aspheric(deft ho is not available any more)
When we talk about reflector throwers 1.st place goes to Lumapower with turbo force head, or to Solarforce masterpiece as they are pretty similar..

Best buy is probably DBS whole set - reflector+aspheric+tube+SM ez900 pill. You will get best aspheric thrower + one of the best reflector throwers.

DBS with reflector throws slightly less then Lumapower with TF head so it is extreme as a reflector thrower also.


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## 2100

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Left to right: (reduced exposure)
> Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1, Dereelight DBS V3 Aspheric 1.5amp EZ900, Olight M3X, Crelant 7G5.
> DBS beats the pro-1, pro-1 beats the m3x, m3x beats the 7g5. Not sure why I have such a big difference between the 7g5 and m3x?!?



Just a minor correction Rob, if you have a meter, you'd find that the Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 with 2 cells in it does not beat the M3X and the Crelant 7G5. Very close though, but not easy to differentiate in real life (and sometimes tint plays tricks with your eyes, it's well documented esp with the colder whites). That's what i see on the meter.

Due to WBing, the cam is also not very good in differentiating such close CP in the hotspots.


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## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Thanks for the correction 2100. I don't think my M3X would be afraid of a Masterpiece Pro-1.


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## luminositykilledthecat...

2100 said:


> Just a minor correction Rob, if you have a meter, you'd find that the Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 with 2 cells in it does not beat the M3X and the Crelant 7G5. Very close though, but not easy to differentiate in real life (and sometimes tint plays tricks with your eyes, it's well documented esp with the colder whites). That's what i see on the meter.Due to WBing, the cam is also not very good in differentiating such close CP in the hotspots.


Yes, thanks for the info i thought that might be the case. Outside at distance the mpp1 looks like a brighter hotspot to me, compared to my m3x, i think it is the tint. Its very very close.


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## luminositykilledthecat...

Hi guys

Tonight if i have time i will post a new photo with the same flashlights (my 7g5 is now ok) AND i will include the lumapower dmini vx r2 with turboforce head.

Rob


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## luminositykilledthecat...

Ilikeflashlights....

No, but I think that if you brought a masterpiece pro-1 you would be very surprised how bright it is, and love it


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## RCantor

Tatjanamagic said:


> I have told U in begging of this thread that whole army of new emitters can not compete to old XRE in a terms of throw. Above pictures confirms that.



Not quite that simple. The new XP-C has the same total brightness as the XR-E but is 20% smaller. The surface brightness is higher. Behind an aspheric it will produce a smaller but brighter spot than the XR-E


----------



## shane45_1911

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Thanks for the correction 2100. I don't think my M3X would be afraid of a Masterpiece Pro-1.



You would be mistaken.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Left to right: (Reduced Exposure)
Solarforce Masterpiece PRO-1, Lumapower D-MINI VX XRE-R2, Dereelight DBS Aspheric EZ900 R2 1.5amp, Olight M3X, Crelant 7G5.

Further reduced exposure and closer up: (the m3x is not green, its the camera)


----------



## Jerimoth

I’m New Hampshire search and rescue ranger, but the light made for that purpose by Wayne is too heavy for me. In fact, although I’ve always carried high end lights like Lupine headlights, etc., and some great Elektrolumens lights on dozens of searches, there has not been a single search that I’ve actually used a monster light to find a benighted hiker. I’ve used a floody light like the Petzl Ultra to light up a scene, especially helpful in route-finding and litter carries. I’m back on CPF after a few years away, learning from this thread, which seems to have two threads- the DBS, etc., and some of the bigger lights like the Catapult. Any recommendations for a bright EDC that has mostly throw– my headlights have more than enough flood- and maybe a bigger one to bring with me when I know that a really bright light could come in handy (although in the last decade of carrying such lights- example a modified Tigerlight- to date myself – I’ve used them mainly to blind people in enforcement situations). I’ve just purchased the Fenix TK35 so I’m looking for something a bit smaller and then something bigger. For EDC thinking about the slightly smaller and narrower Scorpion V2 Turbo, and for more power the Sunway TC40CS XML, or the Catapult. Any recommendations from SAR or backcountry LEO folks?


----------



## orbital

2100 said:


> Well, enjoy my friend.
> 
> The 100k cd DBS aspheric



................^

Such a great shot :thumbsup:


I see little mention of using xp-e in aspheric DBS setup, is there any reason it wouldn't work??


----------



## Tatjanamagic

RCantor said:


> Not quite that simple. The new XP-C has the same total brightness as the XR-E but is 20% smaller. The surface brightness is higher. Behind an aspheric it will produce a smaller but brighter spot than the XR-E



When we talk about general commercial available emitter and drivers true is following: XPC is not better than XRE and it will not throw further...

It is brighter surface brightness emitter but as U probably now they are usually driven on 0,4 amp current so it can not compete to 1,5 amp driven xre.

I have talked to many flashlight manufacturers and they told me that they don't have technology to drive XPC on 1,4 current they told me that in fact they could drive it on 0,7 amp current maximum! 

So thing that Saabluster is doing - driving XPC on 1,4 amp current is science fiction to most manufacturers...

So XPC would be only better by profesional saabluster touch. 

I have XPC running on 0,4 amp driver and it is not as good as r2 xre.


----------



## Phil40000

Thanks luminosity, those pictures of all the lights next to each other rock. Although i am buzzing off my Dereelight DBS (same spec as discussed in this thread) i am tending to carry my Lumapower D-Mini VX (with TF 66mm SMO reflector) more on my late night dog walks. Mainly due to the useful spill that this light creates compared to the laser like DBS. It has been mentioned before about the not great build quality of the DBS and i have to agree that it is a little unrefined and not a hard use light.

With regards to SAR applications i have found that having a super defined hot spot with zero spill is not especially useful when looking for a dog in a big field. I was reduced to 'sweeping' the hot spot and using a mental 'grid' in my head to cover all the surface area. 

Thanks for all the great input in this thread chaps.


----------



## cummins4x4

Phil, you should get the SMO head for your Deree, still has good throw but with some spill. I just got a 2nd host cause I needed another light anyways


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Phil40000 said:


> Thanks luminosity, those pictures of all the lights next to each other rock. Although i am buzzing off my Dereelight DBS (same spec as discussed in this thread) i am tending to carry my Lumapower D-Mini VX (with TF 66mm SMO reflector) more on my late night dog walks. Mainly due to the useful spill that this light creates compared to the laser like DBS. It has been mentioned before about the not great build quality of the DBS and i have to agree that it is a little unrefined and not a hard use light.
> 
> With regards to SAR applications i have found that having a super defined hot spot with zero spill is not especially useful when looking for a dog in a big field. I was reduced to 'sweeping' the hot spot and using a mental 'grid' in my head to cover all the surface area.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the great input in this thread chaps.[/QUOTE
> 
> You are most welcome. I dont know a great deal about photography, but enjoy it very much. Its great fun. I dont know a great deal about flashlights either, just an honest account of my own findings. Its nice to feel that I am helping a little, I have used this forum so much for my own research, its nice to give a little back if I can.
> 
> If I was to equip myself for search and rescue I would put a zebralight sc600 on my belt and sling a fenix tk70 over my shoulder. An aspheric has too narrow a beam for locating in my opinion, well not when in a hurry anyway.
> 
> Rob


----------



## Phil40000

You are right Rob and the SC600 and TK70 are the right tools for SAR, well maybe an Oveready XP-G 1100 lumen triple as well. 

With the aspheric i think it would be good for hunting quarry with as there is no spill to alert the animal early before the hot spot arrives and spooks them. I was using my DBS set up in a huge superdark field 2 weeks ago and the field was full of rabbits. They appear to be 'stunned' for a short period (maybe while their retinas sear) before scampering off as normal. It became quite possible to easily single out an intended target amongst the other rabbits and as long as they did not encounter the hotspot they pretty much stayed munching the grass etc. I found that when searching the field in a sweeping grid pattern you can sweep the hotspot quite quickly until you see the bright flash of the light hitting the back of the animals eyes. I was most upset that i had left my air rifle at home that night i can tell you, it would have been rabbit stew all week.


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## Tatjanamagic

Phil40000 said:


> It has been mentioned before about the not great build quality of the DBS and i have to agree that it is a little unrefined and not a hard use light.



I will tell U that there are indeed better build quality flashlights but dbs has acceptable build quality.


This what I will write below is very important for all future(and current owners) of DBS V3 flashlight so please read:

DBS V3 is modular flashlight and that means that U can disassemble, assemble, upgrade and swap every part of flashlight making this flashlight time resistant.

It is instrument like stated on their pages and instruments needs some care:

This is not like most flashlights U buy from store. It requires some care in order to function properly because it does not come properly lubed and properly tighten when it comes from factory.

When U receive it disassemble every part of flashlight then clean it very well and then lube it with small film of synthetic oil ( i use super lube oil). Because DBS has very narrow threads and I found that silicone grease is not good for lubing this flashlight. Oil smoothness the threads...

Then when U properly lube it you must properly tight every part of the flashlight. Tight every part slow with patience and firmly with no force and U will have an excellent flashlight for many years to come...

Some on CPF reported thread problems. U really can have thread problems if U will not do everything on way I mentioned above. Dry thread and your brutal force can destroy threads, and properly lubed flashlight does not function as expected.

Factory does not pay attention on this stuff but you should!

This is instrument like they are claiming on their site so take care of it like you take care of your tractor, car, gun and neighbors wife


----------



## RCantor

Tatjanamagic said:


> When we talk about general commercial available emitter and drivers true is following: XPC is not better than XRE and it will not throw further...
> 
> It is brighter surface brightness emitter but as U probably now they are usually driven on 0,4 amp current so it can not compete to 1,5 amp driven xre.



I agree completely. Nailbender runs his XP-Cs at 1.4 or 1.7A - your choice. It's those I'm referring to.  They are available now but only in cool white so I don't have one yet. $35 potted plus a solarforce host @ ~ $20 and DX aspheric @ $2 gives a great thrower. I have his neutral XREs (1.4A) and they're great.


----------



## Phil40000

cummins4x4 said:


> Phil, you should get the SMO head for your Deree, still has good throw but with some spill. I just got a 2nd host cause I needed another light anyways



I already have the SMO head for my DBS, i tried it out side by side against my Lumapower and the Lumapower (to my eyes) seemed brighter, tighter and had a tidy, somehow more useful and pleasing beam profile. You guys can tell i like my Lumapower by now but i keep coming back to it, like a player to his wife! Often i buy a new 'thrower' (just got the Masterpiece 1 thing) and try it for a night but then i find myself falling for the Lumapower all over again. The force is strong with this one.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Phil40000 said:


> I already have the SMO head for my DBS, i tried it out side by side against my Lumapower and the Lumapower (to my eyes) seemed brighter, tighter and had a tidy, somehow more useful and pleasing beam profile. You guys can tell i like my Lumapower by now but i keep coming back to it, like a player to his wife! Often i buy a new 'thrower' (just got the Masterpiece 1 thing) and try it for a night but then i find myself falling for the Lumapower all over again. The force is strong with this one.



The one thing that annoys me about the lumapower dmini is that it has modes. I *hate* modes on dedicated throwers, I dont get it? I want it to throw! The MPP1 has one mode, I love it for that, and the DBS 1SM asheric also. Dont forget the mpp1 needs two 18650's etc to acheive full brightness.

Modes are handy for things like walking the dog, I know. If I was walking the dog though I would use my zebralight sc600. However, if i wanted to set the dog on fire, I would take the DBS aspheric.


----------



## brandocommando

orbital said:


> This is one of the best threads CPF has seen,...._* Sticky Vote *_











RCantor said:


> $35 potted plus a solarforce host @ ~ $20 and DX aspheric @ $2 gives a great thrower. I have his neutral XREs (1.4A) and they're great.



I agree RCantor, in addition to my Lumapower, I also have this same set-up. Cheap, and it works great! The Lumapower/Turbo Force set-up has a cool white XR-E running at 2A.





The Solarforce can run on 1 or 2 18350's or 1 or 2 18650's with the cell extenders.
It has a klingon bezel that I cut down and sanded for the "brushed" look. I also sanded the SS on the tailcap to match it. It has a NB H/M/L neutral white XR-E with a very nice tint! 
(Reflector is painted black.) My friends have dubbed it "the pencil beamer."


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Hey Brando

Thanks for that! 

What size is the dx aspheric? Does it require any work to fit and focus?


----------



## brandocommando

THIS is the lens that I am using. It is really easy to do, just take the pill off of the reflector and spray paint the inside of it flat black (this is a must.) If you have a couple of those flat seals that the solarforce's use, they come in handy for the spacing for the lens. Also, if the drop-in is a really tight fit in the host it helps because you can focus by sliding that forward and backward a little bit also. Just get some! It is very simple, and for $2 you really can't go wrong.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

brandocommando said:


> THIS is the lens that I am using. It is really easy to do, just take the pill off of the reflector and spray paint the inside of it flat black (this is a must.) If you have a couple of those flat seals that the solarforce's use, they come in handy for the spacing for the lens. Also, if the drop-in is a really tight fit in the host it helps because you can focus by sliding that forward and backward a little bit also. Just get some! It is very simple, and for $2 you really can't go wrong.



:thumbsup:


----------



## j3bnl

mohanjude said:


> I got the V3 as recommended by this thread. My handle says CL1H V4 - why is that? Is that the number on the V3?
> 
> Sent from my ViewPad7 using Tapatalk



No what you have is the body of a Dereelight CL1H V4, which is basically the same as the DBS V3 one.


----------



## cummins4x4

Have a big head 3D mag with an XRE R2 inbound. The emitter is soldered to a copper slug, and uses a combination of 2 lenses. This is basically a fixed focus light. Its powered by 4 C nimh cells ( not included). It has 2 modes low and high. It can fire 250,000+ lux for extended periods of time. There's a beam shot here http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?329315-FS-Super-Lux-flashlights

This is almost 3 times the lux of the Deree aspherical:devil: Gawd I love this place!!!


----------



## RCantor

I don't even paint the reflector black. You get this net-like pattern that's just barely visible with the LOP reflector.

NB says that when he runs his XRes over 1.4 A he starts to see a color shift towards blue which he says means the life of the unit will be shorter. I think it means the phosphor is overheating.


----------



## mohanjude

brandocommando said:


> THIS is the lens that I am using. It is really easy to do, just take the pill off of the reflector and spray paint the inside of it flat black (this is a must.) If you have a couple of those flat seals that the solarforce's use, they come in handy for the spacing for the lens. Also, if the drop-in is a really tight fit in the host it helps because you can focus by sliding that forward and backward a little bit also. Just get some! It is very simple, and for $2 you really can't go wrong.


 Looking at the Solarforce website your little thrower is that similar to the L2? Mohan


----------



## brandocommando

You do get some side spill if you do not paint, that is true. I use mine as a thrower only and I much prefer the clean laser like beam you get after painting. I snapped a couple quick pics...

Not painted... (This is a pic of the ceiling, not the reflector!)






Painted... (Also, the ceiling.)





Both of my P60 XR-E's with the bezel off.


----------



## mohanjude

nice 'pencil beamer' - I sent you a PM regarding the exact spec - I love that pencil beamer - looks fantastic. how far does it throw?


----------



## brandocommando

mohanjude said:


> Looking at the Solarforce website your little thrower is that similar to the L2? Mohan



It is an L2M. It has a sectioned body, so you can run either a 350 or 650mm battery. I have a customized bezel ring on mine, (I made it from a cut down A001 "klingon" crenelated bezel ring.) I am also using a L2-S9 forward clicky tailcap, and a 1X18650 cell extender, that were purchased separately. The exact drop-in is a Nailbender made neutral white XR-E with the 3.6V - 10V high voltage driver. This way I can run it with the 2 18650's if I need more run time.

It is a really fun flashlight! There is just something cool about a small little light that fits in your pocket and can shine 200-300 yards!


----------



## mohanjude

thanks for the info - brandocommando


----------



## RCantor

cummins4x4 said:


> Have a big head 3D mag with an XRE R2 inbound. The emitter is soldered to a copper slug, and uses a combination of 2 lenses. This is basically a fixed focus light. Its powered by 4 C nimh cells ( not included). It has 2 modes low and high. It can fire 250,000+ lux for extended periods of time. There's a beam shot here http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?329315-FS-Super-Lux-flashlights
> 
> This is almost 3 times the lux of the Deree aspherical:devil: Gawd I love this place!!!



I looked loooong and lovingly at that light and decided it just wasn't practical for me. A great light, though.


----------



## brandocommando

I almost bought it too!!! Nice score cummins4X4!


----------



## RCantor

mohanjude said:


> nice 'pencil beamer' - I sent you a PM regarding the exact spec - I love that pencil beamer - looks fantastic. how far does it throw?



Mine is similar but with an 18650 host. I measured 400 yards at one point, but that's not the limit it's just the furthest thing I could point at.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

cummins4x4 said:


> Have a big head 3D mag with an XRE R2 inbound. The emitter is soldered to a copper slug, and uses a combination of 2 lenses. This is basically a fixed focus light. Its powered by 4 C nimh cells ( not included). It has 2 modes low and high. It can fire 250,000+ lux for extended periods of time. There's a beam shot here http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?329315-FS-Super-Lux-flashlights
> 
> This is almost 3 times the lux of the Deree aspherical:devil: Gawd I love this place!!!



Damn you 4x4! That is AWSOME!


----------



## Tatjanamagic

RCantor said:


> I agree completely. Nailbender runs his XP-Cs at 1.4 or 1.7A - your choice. It's those I'm referring to.  They are available now but only in cool white so I don't have one yet. $35 potted plus a solarforce host @ ~ $20 and DX aspheric @ $2 gives a great thrower. I have his neutral XREs (1.4A) and they're great.



Friend are U telling us that Nailbender has XPC running on 1,4 Amp current? Cool white works excellent in aspheric! Can U send some link? I will order it for sure...

No offense for other CPF members that have cool handmade flashlights but that kind of flashlights are for homemade section. How ever it is nice to know that led can achieve 250klux throw. This Nailbenders 1,7 amp XPC(if it is true) will throw 250klux in dbs aspheric!

When I sign to CPF forum I was looking for flashlights that I can actually purchase. I admired to people who had enough knowledge to made their own flashlights but I think everyone wants to know specifications of commercial available flashlights...

I can only admire 250klux mag I can not buy it...


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Tatjanamagic said:


> Friend are U telling us that Nailbender has XPC running on 1,4 Amp current? Cool white works excellent in aspheric! Can U send some link? I will order it for sure...
> 
> No offense for other CPF members that have cool handmade flashlights but that kind of flashlights are for homemade section. How ever it is nice to know that led can achieve 250klux throw. This Nailbenders 1,7 amp XPC(if it is true) will throw 250klux in dbs aspheric!
> 
> When I sign to CPF forum I was looking for flashlights that I can actually purchase. I admired to people who had enough knowledge to made their own flashlights but I think everyone wants to know specifications of commercial available flashlights...
> 
> I can only admire 250klux mag I can not buy it...



Tatjanamagic, PM sent..............


----------



## Phil40000

The Lumapower can easily be set up to only come on in high mode and stay on high mode thus making it a one level light.

Sent you a PM about some of these new drop in ideas.



luminositykilledthecat... said:


> The one thing that annoys me about the lumapower dmini is that it has modes. I *hate* modes on dedicated throwers, I dont get it? I want it to throw! The MPP1 has one mode, I love it for that, and the DBS 1SM asheric also. Dont forget the mpp1 needs two 18650's etc to acheive full brightness.
> 
> Modes are handy for things like walking the dog, I know. If I was walking the dog though I would use my zebralight sc600. However, if i wanted to set the dog on fire, I would take the DBS aspheric.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

:thumbsup:


Phil40000 said:


> The Lumapower can easily be set up to only come on in high mode and stay on high mode thus making it a one level light.
> 
> Sent you a PM about some of these new drop in ideas.



Aww cheers man, going to my message box now.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Phil40000 said:


> The Lumapower can easily be set up to only come on in high mode and stay on high mode thus making it a one level light.
> 
> Sent you a PM about some of these new drop in ideas.



How do I set the luma to high only?


----------



## RCantor

brandocommando said:


> I almost bought it too!!! Nice score cummins4X4!



Of course BC scored a nice little light of his own... $325 was just too far over my head.


----------



## RCantor

Tatjanamagic said:


> Friend are U telling us that Nailbender has XPC running on 1,4 Amp current? Cool white works excellent in aspheric! Can U send some link? I will order it for sure...



It's against forum rules to post direct links to sales. Go to this forum: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ustom-amp-Modified-Flashlights-Buy-Sell-Trade

and look for P60 modules started by Nailbender. Or better yet, I'll ask him to PM you. Watch your PMs. Ask member psychbeat how he likes his module. Remember that nailbender sells only the P60 drop in. You have to get the host and aspheric yourself.


----------



## orbital

+


_* Aspheric & XP-E ??*_










I truly can't believe it hasn't been tried;
it's a smaller die than any XR-E....without the floody XP-G characteristics.

/////


----------



## cummins4x4

brandocommando said:


> I almost bought it too!!! Nice score cummins4X4!



Well I couldn't believe the price, reputable builder, like Maglites for situations where some heft and durability are desirable, and it should be a kickass light for my spotter to use and with the Deree rifle mounted the coyotes in this county will be in trouble


----------



## RCantor

I've seen links removed like this but I asked a mod and he said it's ok for me to plug a product I like as long as I don't benefit from it.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...les-(part-9)&p=3775736&viewfull=1#post3775736

Scroll to the 12/21/11 update. Then go up to the first post and look at XREs and choose from the options there. Reply to the thread and tell him you want an xpc, # of levels, if you want it potted (I always do) and whether it should be 1.4 or 1.7A. Include whatever options you want. If you're using a dx type aspheric you need a relector to hold it up. If you get an ahorton style kit you don't need the reflector.





RCantor said:


> It's against forum rules to post direct links to sales. Go to this forum: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ustom-amp-Modified-Flashlights-Buy-Sell-Trade
> 
> and look for P60 modules started by Nailbender. Or better yet, I'll ask him to PM you. Watch your PMs. Ask member psychbeat how he likes his module. Remember that nailbender sells only the P60 drop in. You have to get the host and aspheric yourself.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

RCantor said:


> I've seen links removed like this but I asked a mod and he said it's ok for me to plug a product I like as long as I don't benefit from it.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?324618-P60-modules-warm-neutral-cool-white-XPG-S2-XML-U2-P60-modules-(part-9)&p=3775736&viewfull=1#post3775736
> 
> Scroll to the 12/21/11 update. Then go up to the first post and look at XREs and choose from the options there. Reply to the thread and tell him you want an xpc, # of levels, if you want it potted (I always do) and whether it should be 1.4 or 1.7A. Include whatever options you want. If you're using a dx type aspheric you need a relector to hold it up. If you get an ahorton style kit you don't need the reflector.



Thank U friend!

I am not using cheap aspheric I use DBS V3 aspheric that runs on p60 modules... And I can tell U since I have "ordinary" XPC for it on 0,4 amp driver throws 55 klux/meter while with this one math is simple it should throw over 200klux meter...

Saabluster at begging of this thread confirmed that DBS V3 with his 1,4 amp XPC throws over 200klux/m!!!

Thanks!


----------



## Phil40000

Select the high level with the switch pressed right in and then release, then press the switch lightly (momentary style) very quickly 4/5 (think its 4) times within a second or so and then BADA BING the light will only ever come on in the level you locked it in at, even after changing batteries/inactivity. Let me know if i have not described the locking sequence in an effective manner. The manual lists this procedure as well i am sure of it.

Regards,

Phil




luminositykilledthecat... said:


> How do I set the luma to high only?


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Phil40000 said:


> Select the high level with the switch pressed right in and then release, then press the switch lightly (momentary style) very quickly 4/5 (think its 4) times within a second or so and then BADA BING the light will only ever come on in the level you locked it in at, even after changing batteries/inactivity. Let me know if i have not described the locking sequence in an effective manner. The manual lists this procedure as well i am sure of it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Phil



Cheers Phil!


----------



## mohanjude

i love my DBS v3 with the aspheric head. It perfectly fits the job I want to do with it which is basically to look for house numbers at night especially onestates without flooding peoples front rooms. However the size of the aspheric head puts me off as it is bulky in my pocket. I just purchased a DEFT Edc LR - do you think it will do the job. I dont need riiculous throw but enough to visualise where the house numbers are in a large housing estate without having to drive down each cul des sac.



Sent from my ViewPad7 using Tapatalk


----------



## 2100

Mohanjude, there are budget lights that are Q5/XR-E with aspherics and can do about 20k cd. They let you do 150m comfortably. You can buy 10 of them. 

If you are good in modding, get the Small Sun ZY-C10-S. Stock gets you 40k cd for the most intense part of the hotspot and 30k for the rest. You can easily mod to XR-E. It's just 14 bucks. 42mm head, should be able to fit more comfortably.


----------



## BLUE LED

mohanjude said:


> i love my DBS v3 with the aspheric head. It perfectly fits the job I want to do with it which is basically to look for house numbers at night especially onestates without flooding peoples front rooms. However the size of the aspheric head puts me off as it is bulky in my pocket. I just purchased a DEFT Edc LR - do you think it will do the job. I dont need riiculous throw but enough to visualise where the house numbers are in a large housing estate without having to drive down each cul des sac.
> 
> Sent from my ViewPad7 using Tapatalk



Hi. The Deft EDC LR will do the job and I really like the small form factor.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Each of us need light for special purposes. Mohanjude is not to demanding costumer when it comes to throw he needs pocket size thrower and that is ok.

DBS is not pocket light but it is not large either. In fact it can go to middleweight category...

DEFT EDC LR is excellent flashlight and nobody can go wrong buying it... Small P60 that throws like first gen emitter in DBS V3 is impressive...

Pocket light that can out throw many famous reflector throwers. Big + for Saabluster...

BTW...
Nailbender has XPC-s driven at 1,4 -1,7 amp I placed order but I apparently don't know how to do it right becuse he did not contact me so how the heck can I pay him?


----------



## Rikr

2100,
Your private messages are full, you can not receive any more, just to let you know. I was going to order this set up your talking about, the Small Sun ZY-C10-S but what did you mean by the 42mm head and where would I find that and is there a XRE on M#####T that you would recommend or should I get all this from somewhere else.Thanks,
Rick


----------



## bjs55

Tatjan his p-60 thread has his pay-pal info on it look in his bio information


----------



## Burntrice

Reading about these current throwers is tempting me.. Would anyone happen to know the Lux of a Jetbeam RRT1 R2 and how that compares to the DBS V3?


----------



## mohanjude

Thanks I have ordered it. I will try it out in its stock format. What you are suggesting is that if I am not happy to change the XR-E to EZ900 ? Do I need to change the driver as well to run it at 1.8amps? Do you know if this uses a standard p60 pill? If it does I would swap it with Nailbender's pill ?



2100 said:


> Mohanjude, there are budget lights that are Q5/XR-E with aspherics and can do about 20k cd. They let you do 150m comfortably. You can buy 10 of them.
> 
> If you are good in modding, get the Small Sun ZY-C10-S. Stock gets you 40k cd for the most intense part of the hotspot and 30k for the rest. You can easily mod to XR-E. It's just 14 bucks. 42mm head, should be able to fit more comfortably.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

bjs55 said:


> Tatjan his p-60 thread has his pay-pal info on it look in his bio information



Thanks. Yes but I need driver that will run on 2×18650 so how do I pay him If he does not want to answer on my questions?

Obviously he is to busy...


----------



## brandocommando

Just be patient, I am sure he will answer you!


----------



## my#1hobby

BLUE LED said:


> Hi. The Deft EDC LR will do the job and I really like the small form factor.


Nice looking light! Anyone know how the Deft EDC LR compares in throw to the DBS aspheric EZ900 setup? OR anyone know what aspheric light has further throw than the DBS aspheric?


----------



## 2100

mohanjude said:


> Thanks I have ordered it. I will try it out in its stock format. What you are suggesting is that if I am not happy to change the XR-E to EZ900 ? Do I need to change the driver as well to run it at 1.8amps? Do you know if this uses a standard p60 pill? If it does I would swap it with Nailbender's pill ?



Hi, the stock light comes with Q5 or someone even said it could be a counterfeit Q5. But the throw is there. It has a retaining pin, not sure what's the Star inside but it should be easy. Budget lights are not like Sunwayman in which they are so !##@!# difficult to open and mod. But stock wise with a fully charged battery it is at least 1 amp so it is good to go. Get another to put in the trunk of your car, can't go wrong. If you need cheap batteries, go with the Trustfire Flames protected 18650. They do about 2300mAh @ 1A discharge at least, and sometimes close to 2500mAh for the good batches. The cheapest i got was $6.70 for a pair. In a nutshell, just get the Trustfire Flames 16340/14500/18650 and if you want the Ultrafire XSL 18350, they are good and do a search on google for details, sure to come out with discharge graphs. Do not buy other stuff like green/red/purple/blue Ultrafires or Trustfires.


----------



## Jeffa

Tatjanamagic said:


> Thanks. Yes but I need driver that will run on 2×18650 so how do I pay him If he does not want to answer on my questions?
> 
> Obviously he is to busy...



If you go to his profile then read at the top of his page he gives his paypal email address. He may take a few days to get to your questions but he will answer them. He seems to answer his PM's even quicker.

Hope this helps.


----------



## RCantor

Tatjanamagic said:


> Thanks. Yes but I need driver that will run on 2×18650 so how do I pay him If he does not want to answer on my questions?
> 
> Obviously he is to busy...



There may not be a driver that works with 2 Li Ion 18650s, but his 6V driver will work with 2 LiFePO4s if you don't charge them over 3 V. Or you could use 1 18650 Li ion with a dummy cell in your 2 cell host. There's a guy here or in MP who sells the dummy cells.

NB is just a guy with a family and the occasional power outage, water heater repairs, etc. He always gets back to people eventually.


----------



## Jeffa

On another note *Tatjanamajic* I took your advice and received the following yesterday.

_DBS V3 complete flashlight with the xml 3SM pill. I got the T model and really like it.
This will give you a useful 'floody light'.
Then order the aspheric head with a R2 1.5amp pill.
Then you can just swap the heads depending on how much throw you need.
I also got the ext 650.

_Man does this thing throw, it is unbelieveable. I like the fact that it doesn't have the spill that my Thrunite Scorpion and SF UB3T have, thus eliminating the dust and particle distractions in the air. 

The WD tint although rated 100 lumens less than the cooler version is really nice for color rendition and I really like the compact overall size. 

It easily picked out coyotes, wolfs, and deer at distance last night.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Hi,

RCantor. I really hope he has buck drivers that can handle high current(2×18650) that kind of drivers are less complicated than multimode drivers.

It is no problem to pay him but I really need that 2×18650 single stage XPC driver, and if it goes around 200klux I will order even more for my friends...

Jeffa glad that U listen me me. Now read my post about lubing and other stuff for this flashlight on page 12 of this thread. I really tried and own a lot of famous led flashlight - some of them are resold (feniks, olights, led lensers and others) and from what I seen with my eyes and scope none of them can throw like aspheric DBS V3 with new 1,5 amp ez 900 pill... although most of them are lot bigger and heavier than this practical flashlight...

So if anybody claims that there is commercial available led thrower that can out throw this aspheric put it here so we can see... But I think only tuned homemade flashlights can compete with it and of course old deft ho...

Friends who already ordered XPC from Nailbender I am looking forward for your review and that 200 klux mark will be reached (or will be close to that)

I think that 200 klux is enough


----------



## cummins4x4

Jeffa, glad you like it. I have the same setup. I would really like to see comparison beamshots of the aspheric vs the UB3T as I am still considering an M6LT just for giggles..


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> Each of us need light for special purposes. Mohanjude is not to demanding costumer when it comes to throw he needs pocket size thrower and that is ok.
> 
> DBS is not pocket light but it is not large either. In fact it can go to middleweight category...
> 
> DEFT EDC LR is excellent flashlight and nobody can go wrong buying it... Small P60 that throws like first gen emitter in DBS V3 is impressive...
> 
> Pocket light that can out throw many famous reflector throwers. Big + for Saabluster...
> 
> BTW...
> Nailbender has XPC-s driven at 1,4 -1,7 amp I placed order but I apparently don't know how to do it right becuse he did not contact me so how the heck can I pay him?



Just FYI 1.7A on the XP-C is too much. Too too much.


----------



## Jeffa

cummins4x4 said:


> Jeffa, glad you like it. I have the same setup. I would really like to see comparison beamshots of the aspheric vs the UB3T as I am still considering an M6LT just for giggles..



I've never done beamshot comparisons but am willing to try. I only have my wifes little camera and will give it a whirl one night.


----------



## cummins4x4

Jeffa said:


> I've never done beamshot comparisons but am willing to try. I only have my wifes little camera and will give it a whirl one night.



Any effort will be greatly appreciated. I really thought the SF would be comparable to the aspheric as the SF beam shots I have seen don't show much spill at all. I really need to get my hands on a SF to try a comparison, don't want to drop 6 bills and be disappointed!!


----------



## Tatjanamagic

saabluster said:


> Just FYI 1.7A on the XP-C is too much. Too too much.



Hi Saabluster,

I got answer from Nailbender:
Hi 

"Sorry I only have the 1.7 amp in 6 volt max. I also want to say that folks should not get too excited for these XPC's while they are all the rage they are not going to blow away your XRE's by any grand amount. While they have the tightest beams they are still just Q5 flux so they will only be so bright since they are Q5's

Dave "

So he has *"XPC Q5 WC tint. Q5 is the highest flux bin made at this time*" as Nailbender says...



What do U think Saabluster? Should this throw something better than 1,5amp EZ900?

U said XPC Q4 WC should do the job? Made something for us


----------



## my#1hobby

Sorry if I missed it, but can you run the aspheric DBS-T with the 1.5 amp EZ900 pill on 1x18650 or does it have to be 2x18650?


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

my#1hobby said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but can you run the aspheric DBS-T with the 1.5 amp EZ900 pill on 1x18650 or does it have to be 2x18650?



Hi

Yes the Dereelight XRE R2 EZ900 1.5 amp pill can be used with 1 x 18650, but you need an input voltage of 4.7 or higher to acheive full brightness. I have the 1SM pill version and use two cr123, or two 18650.


----------



## my#1hobby

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Hi
> 
> Yes the Dereelight XRE R2 EZ900 1.5 amp pill can be used with 1 x 18650, but you need an input voltage of 4.7 or higher to acheive full brightness. I have the 1SD pill version and use two cr123, or two 18650.


Got it, 2 cr123's it is then. Still waiting on my 18650 order to arrive. Thank you for the quick response.


----------



## bigchelis

Tatjanamagic said:


> Hi Saabluster,
> 
> I got answer from Nailbender:
> Hi
> 
> "Sorry I only have the 1.7 amp in 6 volt max. I also want to say that folks should not get too excited for these XPC's while they are all the rage they are not going to blow away your XRE's by any grand amount. While they have the tightest beams they are still just Q5 flux so they will only be so bright since they are Q5's
> 
> Dave "
> 
> So he has *"XPC Q5 WC tint. Q5 is the highest flux bin made at this time*" as Nailbender says...
> 
> 
> 
> What do U think Saabluster? Should this throw something better than 1,5amp EZ900?
> 
> U said XPC Q4 WC should do the job? Made something for us




IMHO: Nailbender is correct because he is basing it on how he builds lights. Which is Star to aluminum heatsink or Star to Brass or Star to copper. Eighter way the star is there, then the AS5 or other thermal compound. The STAR and Thermal compound are the first bottleneck to get rid of. Just so you know Lamdalights tested this very theory. By changing nothing and just getting rid of the STAR he got 20% more lux on his VARAPower2000 builds. So, that is by just doing copper to LED bonding, pretty impressive to say the least.

I have purchased close to 10 of Nailbender's builds and he does amazing work and I enjoyed each and everyone. I would take Nailbenders advise on this one too.

Why Saablaster can actually see increase in lux with his pill or builds is because he uses something very rare and unique only to 3 people in the world do it. Milky, Lamdalights, and Saablaster are the only human beings that I can think off that have done LED TO COPPER BONDING. 

Without the LED to Copper bonding the potential Lux is robbed within MiliSeconds. So, Nailbender is correct because at even 1A there is no way the XP-C R4 can deliver anything remotely close to XR-E R2 at 1.5A because heat will rob you instantly.

NOW, if Saalbaster does the pill, well thats cheating cause he uses no grease, no AS5, no STAR, its pure LED to copper bonding. And thats why its worth $300 bucks right there and he can sign me up for a pill when and if he decides to sell them. 

bigC


----------



## brandocommando

What is the best way to mount an SST-90 (no star) to an annodized BrightLumens "D" heatsink?

I have AS5 and 5 minute AATA on hand... And could this set-up handle 9A? 

I have not bought the driver yet, but I am in the process of building a aspheric maglight. (Sorry Tatjanamagic.)

I have 3 Maglights, 1 BL aluminum reflector, 3 DX glass aspherical, and 2 normal lenses, 3 H22A heatsinks, 1 BL heatsink, and just about every LED you can think of on hand...

All I know at this point is that at least 1 of them is going to be a '90.

Thanks.


----------



## bigchelis

ThE #1 way to cool any LED is copper to LED bonding. Now you can ask saabluster for advise process. Good luck


----------



## brandocommando

Trust me, after trying to solder on that copper P60 heatsink, I am no where near becoming the 4th person in the world with the ability to do that!


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

my#1hobby said:


> Got it, 2 cr123's it is then. Still waiting on my 18650 order to arrive. Thank you for the quick response.



EDIT: 1SM 3.4 - 16V


----------



## 2100

bigchelis said:


> ThE #1 way to cool any LED is copper to LED bonding. Now you can ask saabluster for advise process. Good luck



For cheap fun you can try dry ice and try what happens during overdriving. But it would be difficult to bring it out! LOL. That's called brute force cooling.
Not very useful, but they use liquid helium to use with the highest speed AMDs.

Seriously with a large enough host, you can do peltiers (not overly cost prohibitive too). Coz with a large enough host then the power supply shouldn't be an issue. 26650s are cheap like the MKNE/KingKongs which do about 4.5AH @ 1A which is pretty good. Panasonic 3100s are even more energy dense per unit volume but expensive. But I guess it's more for custom builds and individual hobby use.


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> Hi Saabluster,
> 
> I got answer from Nailbender:
> Hi
> 
> "Sorry I only have the 1.7 amp in 6 volt max. I also want to say that folks should not get too excited for these XPC's while they are all the rage they are not going to blow away your XRE's by any grand amount. While they have the tightest beams they are still just Q5 flux so they will only be so bright since they are Q5's
> 
> Dave "
> 
> So he has *"XPC Q5 WC tint. Q5 is the highest flux bin made at this time*" as Nailbender says...
> 
> 
> 
> What do U think Saabluster? Should this throw something better than 1,5amp EZ900?
> 
> U said XPC Q4 WC should do the job? Made something for us



Well if there is a Q5 bin XP-C I don't know about it. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist but I'm a bit skeptical. Google "*XPC Q5 WC*" and you will notice that what comes up is a bunch of chinese products which have a bad habit of claiming to have bins that either do not exist or are just not in their product. Run at the right current levels and with excellent heatsinking you can see about the same jump up from the ez900 to the XP-C as you see going from the ez1000 to the ez900. I'll check into the claim of XP-Cs in the Q5 bin.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well I bought a Dereelight DBS V3 XR-E R2 EZ900 3SM pill with aspheric lens last nite. I bought the 650 xtender tube as well. I guess I will now have one of the ultimate led throwers. I talked to a guy that has one of these Dereelights and he said it will out throw his Olight SR90. That pretty well sold me.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Well I bought a Dereelight DBS V3 XR-E R2 EZ900 3SM pill last nite. I bought the 650 xtender tube as well. I guess I will now have one of the ultimate led throwers. I talked to a guy that has one of these Dereelights and he said it will out throw his Olight SR90. That pretty well sold me.



You got one - at last! Your gonna love it


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> You got one - at last! Your gonna love it



I hope so. My camera may get tired once it gets dark after that light gets here. LOL! I'll have to post some pictures. I got a great spot behind my house that I can shoot some pictures at about 350yds. I may be able to even stretch it out to 400yds. 2100 tells me this light is simply amazing. Heck it's just another dang light to me. Yea I feel like a kid in a candy store. :thumbsup:


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> I hope so. My camera may get tired once it gets dark after that light gets here. LOL! I'll have to post some pictures. I got a great spot behind my house that I can shoot some pictures at about 350yds. I may be able to even stretch it out to 400yds. 2100 tells me this light is simply amazing. Heck it's just another dang light to me. Yea I feel like a kid in a candy store. :thumbsup:



Good stuff. Look forward to the pics.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Hi,

Luminositykilledthecat ordered Nailbenders 1,7amp XPC pill and he has light meter so now we will see how it goes vs ez900... I would order but he does not have driver that can run on 2×18650 for now...

And yes this aspheric is very nice light for hunting (scope hunting only) and playing but it does not have very nice characteristic of reflector flashlight.

U would rather use reflector flashlight for war games like airsoft and others because aspheric has little(or none) use on close encounters, not to mention dog walking and all kinds of situations in which U got to instantly lid whole room (policemen, firemen, security).

But if U want all in one I recommend DBSV3 reflector flashlight with XML emitter + r2 ez900 aspheric for playing around... It is not cheap but is probably best buy in quality branded flashlight...

I hate crappyfire and other no name brand flashlight although I bought lot of them...

Better one quality flashlight than 10 crappyfires...


----------



## swan

Is there an xre-r4.


----------



## mohanjude

played around with the DEFT edc LR - this thing is what I have been looking for. Sits in a jacket pocket and throws really far. The beam is perfect for spotting. It is quite small - in fact looks much smaller than the pictures.

Fine bit of workmanship. The beam with the diffuser film is good enough to use as a EDC.

I know there is a x3 price difference between this and the DBS V3 but for me it is worth it due to the small portable factor.

mohan

Sent from my ViewPad7 using Tapatalk


----------



## azzid

Thank you, Michael/saabluster/Omglumens for creating this wonderful light:thumbsup:. The Deft Edc-LR, really has unbelievable throw for a light of its size, add to that a nice neutral tint.




mohanjude said:


> played around with the DEFT edc LR - this thing is what I have been looking for. Sits in a jacket pocket and throws really far. The beam is perfect for spotting. It is quite small - in fact looks much smaller than the pictures.
> 
> Fine bit of workmanship. The beam with the diffuser film is good enough to use as a EDC.
> 
> I know there is a x3 price difference between this and the DBS V3 but for me it is worth it due to the small portable factor.
> 
> mohan
> 
> Sent from my ViewPad7 using Tapatalk



+1 on this!

Here's a beamshot comparison of the DBS v3 and the Deft EDC-LR(220-250m)
0.77sec/shutter speed
F/2
iso800
awb


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Great photo azzid, thanks man. Deft edc lr looks great for its size, nice tint too.

I am praying that saabluster releases another deft to blow this dbs out of the water. When his last ones were available I was not on forums, and knew nothing of their existance :mecry:


----------



## mohanjude

Gee that angle is just impressive... looks like Batmans Bat light... I just need to make a cut out and stick it on the back of the lens..

Sent from my ViewPad7 using Tapatalk


----------



## cummins4x4

Ya thanks azzid, now I'll have to get a Deft too Nice looking beam from that unit, not quite as tight as the Deree which would be a good thing in some situations. Also looks like the Deft build quality is outstanding!!


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Now is saabluster gonna release his light engine for the dbs aspheric?


----------



## azzid

> I am praying that saabluster releases another deft to blow this dbs out of the water. When his last ones were availible I was not on forums, and knew nothing of their existance :mecry:



Me too, I was just a lurker during the time the original Deft was made available to the public. I guess there's no other choice for us but to wait for a DEFT V2.



> Gee that angle is just impressive... looks like Batmans Bat light...


My cousin said the exact same thing when I posted the photo on FB lol.



> Nice looking beam from that unit, not quite as tight as the Deree which would be a good thing in some situations.



I'm not an expert on throwers(I'm just having fun with aspherics for now), I think that for hunting with a scope the deree would be the best choice, but for a guy who lives in a city/country on which hunting is not legal. The Deft is definitely more useful for spotting things and can easily be carried in a jeans pocket.

This is the most fun I ever had in a flashlight.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Nice picture Azzid... I think that U did not set your DBS properly... Bluish corona around hotspot should not be seen... On that distance it has to have more intense hotspot, at least my has...

For best setup U must be 7-10 meters from wall and set it up so that led is crystal clear visible(on blurrier lenses U can not achieve that so it will throw something less)

Nice thrower deft edc lr... Out throws catapult like lights  and it can fit into pocket...

Looking for Saabluster deftV3 aspheric (he don't want to tell us what he is doing  )


----------



## azzid

I already did the wall focusing thing at about 4-5 meters, I even tried to focus it at that distance(the building itself). But the emitter won't focus clearly/sharply, maybe my lens is not that clear to begin with.

I'm gonna try focusing it again tonight and try to get a sharper image/hotspot at that distance, Thanks for the tip!:thumbsup:


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Saabluster, oh great king of throw, what we all want to know is............just what are you scheming in your secret underground lab?


----------



## duro

So I noticed a little scuff, or blemish on the dome of my XRE EZ 900 LED of the DBS T. It's especially visible through the aspherical lense. I don't see any impact in the beam, but could it effect the lux, or beam, or performance of this light?

Jay has offerred to replace the pill for me, but of course if I don't have to go through the hassle, I won't. Do you think it's ok?


----------



## Burntrice

I've just ordered a DBS V3 XR-E R2 EZ900 3SM too, woohoo! As far as the batteries go, whats the best set-up? Will 2x RCR123's be ok? I cant find a voltage range on the site for it.

Ty for the help ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS


----------



## mohanjude

Burntrice said:


> I've just ordered a DBS V3 XR-E R2 EZ900 3SM too, woohoo! As far as the batteries go, whats the best set-up? Will 2x RCR123's be ok? I cant find a voltage range on the site for it.
> 
> Ty for the help ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS



If you got a 3 SM - you have 3 stage brightness with multi voltage. You can use x2 RCR 123 which is perfect (I use the same setup) . You will be get optimum brightness but may be shorter duration as compared to x2 18650 cells.

Mohan


----------



## Burntrice

Perfect thanks! I don't mind a shorter runtime, plenty of spare RCR's lying about.


----------



## cccpull

Anybody have any ideas of the run time on 2X rcr123's?


----------



## swing

Guys - I just started a new thread on this, then noticed 14 pages on dedicated throwers - so i will post this question here also:

a want a compact, powerful, strobing, tightly concentrated beam - so heres my questions:

SO:

1) which have a strobe mode?

2) which is the brightest?

Dereelight Turbohead with XPG-R5
Dereelight Aspheric with Cree R2
Tiablo A9 with Aspheric lens

3) Finally - I have a Thrunight TN11 - where can i get an aspheric collating lens for it?!


----------



## swing

Lifes short. I just ordered a DEFT EDC LR!


----------



## azzid

swing said:


> Lifes short. I just ordered a DEFT EDC LR!



Congrats! on your new thrower, I'm sure you'll enjoy using it as much as I enjoyed mine.


----------



## cummins4x4

azzid said:


> Congrats! on your new thrower, I'm sure you'll enjoy using it as much as I enjoyed mine.



Stop it you guys!!! I keep looking at these. Hopefully the current stock gets sold before I succumb. I have 4 lights inbound I am still looking


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Yeah stop it lol.
I am waiting for news from Saabluster so need to keep my wallet shut.


----------



## cummins4x4

I think there are a few of us waiting with credit cards at the ready for saabluster's latest creation.


----------



## jcalvert

Hey Guys,

I have a Tiablo A10-G, XRE-R2 w/ single-stage switch, which has plenty of throw for my purposes. But I wondered two things:

*1.* Does anyone have the A10-G and the new DBS v3 XRE-R2 EZ900 that can tell me, at equal distances, which has a larger hotspot, and by how much?

*2.* Have any A10-G w/ single stage switch owners ever upgraded the XRE-R2 pill?

*a. *If so, with what and what were the differences?

Thank you,
John


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

duro said:


> So I noticed a little scuff, or blemish on the dome of my XRE EZ 900 LED of the DBS T. It's especially visible through the aspherical lense. I don't see any impact in the beam, but could it effect the lux, or beam, or performance of this light?
> 
> Jay has offerred to replace the pill for me, but of course if I don't have to go through the hassle, I won't. Do you think it's ok?



If I were you I would exchange it. It should not be there anyway, regardless.


----------



## duro

Ok. Thanks. Will do..


----------



## cccpull

cccpull said:


> Anybody have any ideas of the run time on 2X rcr123's?



I'm bumping my own question.


Can't seem to find run times for this light anywhere.  


Has anybody found any information on run times (whether 2x rcr123's or 18650's)?


----------



## troelskc

cccpull said:


> I'm bumping my own question.
> 
> 
> Can't seem to find run times for this light anywhere.
> 
> 
> Has anybody found any information on run times (whether 2x rcr123's or 18650's)?



I'm assuming you're asking about the DBS V3. I've tested the XM-L T6 running on 2 x AW-P18650-3100 mAh and it did 100 minutes. I've got no data on the 2 x rcr123's but could imagine half an hour.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

cccpull said:


> I'm bumping my own question.
> 
> 
> Can't seem to find run times for this light anywhere.
> 
> 
> Has anybody found any information on run times (whether 2x rcr123's or 18650's)?



I think 2100 knows the run times?


----------



## 2100

For the DBS 1.5A XR-E, a pair of RCR123 or 16340 probably is 50 mins in reality. (from the batteries that i have discharge tested).


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

2100 said:


> For the DBS 1.5A XR-E, a pair of RCR123 or 16340 probably is 50 mins in reality. (from the batteries that i have discharge tested).



Thanks 2100


----------



## cccpull

Thank you! (troelskc, Luminositykilledthecat, and 2100) Just what I needed to know.


----------



## GulfCoastToad

Anybody with a DEFT EDC-LR have a runtime estimate? Please stated battery used also.


----------



## The_Driver

I don't have one, but I can make an educated guess The LED gets 1.4A. Lets say the driver has an average efficiency of 80%, we then get 1.75A.Lets say you are using the highest capacity 18650 (Kallie's Customs 3100mAh), that means the max possible runtime would be 1.77 hours or 1:46.I hope this helps


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

This thread has gone way too quiet.......


----------



## cummins4x4

I received the modded Mag with 2 aspherical lenses. VOB is the builder. Initial impression is a very high quality build, nice fit and finish. I could only try it out briefly with 4 C alkys. The spot is about 1/4 the size of the Deree spherical with a much warmer tint. There is a bit more spill then the Deree which I don't mind at all as it just dimly lights up the general area around the hot spot. I think this light should throw out to 800 yards easily, I will take it out somewhere to stretch it out soon as my NiMh cells arrive. Quite happy with this purchase, especially considering the very reasonable price.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

cummins4x4 said:


> I received the modded Mag with 2 aspherical lenses. VOB is the builder. Initial impression is a very high quality build, nice fit and finish. I could only try it out briefly with 4 C alkys. The spot is about 1/4 the size of the Deree spherical with a much warmer tint. There is a bit more spill then the Deree which I don't mind at all as it just dimly lights up the general area around the hot spot. I think this light should throw out to 800 yards easily, I will take it out somewhere to stretch it out soon as my NiMh cells arrive. Quite happy with this purchase, especially considering the very reasonable price.



Would be great if you could do some beamshots


----------



## Glock 22

My thrower is a cheap Cree C8 XRE it has a straight pencil beam and will throw a perfect straight beam over 100 yards. It has a strobe, beacon, sos.


----------



## SHADE02

coolperl said:


> Buy youself a real thrower (like Catapult V3, Crelant 7G5, Sunwayman TC40S) and you'll laugh from your poor TN11.



better yet, for the same size, get the more powerfull of them, the mighty olight m3x, yeap, that thing beat(well the list is a little long)(and size competitors only!!) :
catapult,tk35,sr51,bc40,ms2,tc40s,eagle m3c4,etc, tested side by side 
you won't belive until you see it...


----------



## Tatjanamagic

For dedicated thrower strobe,sos and other are unnecessary stuff...

Single stage mode or high only rules...

Strobe is the most stupid thing they ever build in flashlight. With strobe U can only blind yourself and spoil your night vision...


----------



## BLUE LED

GulfCoastToad said:


> Anybody with a DEFT EDC-LR have a runtime estimate? Please stated battery used also.



I have a DEFT EDC LR and EDC DEFT, but I have too busy to perform a runtime/regulation test. I would expect 1 hour 43 mins using a Redilast 18650 3100mAh or AW version.


----------



## 999snafu

......


----------



## duro

Tatjanamagic said:


> For dedicated thrower strobe,sos and other are unnecessary stuff...
> 
> Single stage mode or high only rules...
> 
> Strobe is the most stupid thing they ever build in flashlight. With strobe U can only blind yourself and spoil your night vision...



I only like lights with the strobe feature. It works great for signaling, but that's me.


----------



## GulfCoastToad

Took the DEFT EDC-LR camping this weekend. Our neighbors thought ET was phoning home.


----------



## saabluster

GulfCoastToad said:


> Anybody with a DEFT EDC-LR have a runtime estimate? Please stated battery used also.


----------



## RedLED

Saabluster,

I sent you an E-mail on your Web site contact page a while back, did you receive it?

Would like a DEFT. 

I think my neighborhood is ready for this.

Thanks,

NR


----------



## Gordo

Considering a dedicated thrower. So please consider my experience is limited to currently owning a Zebralight SC600, Surefire 6P with Lighthound XP-G upgrade, Dereelight Javelin 3SM 3xAA, as throwers, so this is the baseline for comparison. While they are not what I consider dedicated throwers I'm looking for something that they are not. No need to be redundant but there should be a slight overlap. And I do love the XM-L large hotspot for overall usefulness. At first glance that may seem contradictory but to those that use throwers understand there is a balance between useful lumen/lux and just big numbers. 

Considering running a 2x18650 (protected) configuration.
I'm somewhere around the EagleTac G25C2, the Thrunite Catapult V3, or Dereelight DBS V3 XM-L 3SM (based on the research so far). I've researched and probably could make a decision between the G25C2 and the Catapult but the DBS XM-L remains the outsider. I would love a DBS XM-L beamshot to compare with the others. 

Points to consider:
Significantly different from the SC600 in throw/brightness. In lumens they are all close enough to NOT be significantly different to me. The difference is how the lumens are expressed. 

Useful/practical: If you own one and always pick up something else because...

If you owned a SC600, would you buy one of the above? Yes a dangerous question in a "Dedicated Thrower" thread but I want a user light not a show light. I can't justify the purchase based on "it makes me giggle when I turn it on" factor.


----------



## Burntrice

Some great pictures GoldCoastToad!, thanks for posting. Anyone have some Dereelight DBS V3 pics i can drool over? I have one in the post and the wait is killing me.
I wish i could rationalise the cost of a DEFT but in these hard time a DBS will suffice.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Gordo said:


> Considering a dedicated thrower. So please consider my experience is limited to currently owning a Zebralight SC600, Surefire 6P with Lighthound XP-G upgrade, Dereelight Javelin 3SM 3xAA, as throwers, so this is the baseline for comparison. While they are not what I consider dedicated throwers I'm looking for something that they are not. No need to be redundant but there should be a slight overlap. And I do love the XM-L large hotspot for overall usefulness. At first glance that may seem contradictory but to those that use throwers understand there is a balance between useful lumen/lux and just big numbers.
> 
> Considering running a 2x18650 (protected) configuration.
> I'm somewhere around the EagleTac G25C2, the Thrunite Catapult V3, or Dereelight DBS V3 XM-L 3SM (based on the research so far). I've researched and probably could make a decision between the G25C2 and the Catapult but the DBS XM-L remains the outsider. I would love a DBS XM-L beamshot to compare with the others.
> 
> Points to consider:
> Significantly different from the SC600 in throw/brightness. In lumens they are all close enough to NOT be significantly different to me. The difference is how the lumens are expressed.
> 
> Useful/practical: If you own one and always pick up something else because...
> 
> If you owned a SC600, would you buy one of the above? Yes a dangerous question in a "Dedicated Thrower" thread but I want a user light not a show light. I can't justify the purchase based on "it makes me giggle when I turn it on" factor.



Hmm. I also own the sc600. It provides all the flood I need. I also own a olight m3x, which has way way more flood and way way more throw than the sc600. BUT i never pick up the olight because my sc600 is enough flood! When I need the most throw, I use my dbs aspheric 1.5amp ez900. For throw, the only xml flashlight that can compete with the dbs aspheric is the lambdalights xml with turbo head.


----------



## troelskc

@ Gordo: I own a the DBS combo you described. It is very useful setup. I will throw a lot, but the beam will still be very useful, you will not be disappointed! Though you should consider a 1SM (1 stage) if you don't need/care about the lower modes, because the interface is not the best. You could of course buy a different pill from another manufacturer (nailbender, Vin...)

Congrats on being a "flashaholic"


----------



## saabluster

RedLed said:


> Saabluster,
> 
> I sent you an E-mail on your Web site contact page a while back, did you receive it?
> 
> Would like a DEFT.
> 
> I think my neighborhood is ready for this.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> NR


Got it. I'll get back with you via email in just a minute.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Saabluster, not sure if you got my pm earlier? your box may have been full?
if its empty, will be sending another pm shortly.


----------



## Pete2s

I'm looking into building a DBS XR-E R2 with the aspherical head, but I'd also like to run an XM-L head on a single 18650 regulated, or at least a single step down like the Zebralight SC600. It looks like Dereelight does not offer an XM-L pill that runs regulated or single step down on an 18650. Where could I find one that would fit in my DBS?


----------



## cummins4x4

Pete2s if you haven't already contacted Jay at Flashlightconnection dot com I would shoot him an email with that question. He is very helpful and gets back to you pronto.


----------



## saabluster

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Saabluster, not sure if you got my pm earlier? your box may have been full?
> if its empty, will be sending another pm shortly.


Well I returned one last night but it appears my subscription just lapsed and I lost my extra storage. Give me a few minutes.

edit: OK I can recieve PMs again.


----------



## Rikr

Hey guys I have a question.. Will the DEFT EDC out throw the Dereelight dbs aspheric 1.5amp ez900 ???
I just bought a DEFT EDC off ebay and I have the Dereelight aspheric 1.5amp ez900 and the Tiablo A9 R2 aspheric and I was just 
Curious if the DEFT EDC can out throw the new DBS??


----------



## cummins4x4

Rikr said:


> Hey guys I have a question.. Will the DEFT EDC out throw the Dereelight dbs aspheric 1.5amp ez900 ???



Nope:devil:


----------



## Alex1234

This thread made me buy the dereelight ez900 aspherical flashlight and i went out side and there is this hill with a road on top with a line of trees beyond that and i measured 700 yards on google earth. I had my sunwayman T40cs and my MPP1 to compare the dereelight to.

MPP1: faintly lit up the pine trees but not so well on the trees with just branches. There was a white shead in front of the trees which lit up well

Sunwayman T40CS:Lit up the Trees with the same intensity but a much larger area. Might have been slightly brighter then the pro1 but the tints are different so its hard to tell.

Dereelight Ashperical flashlight with ez900 led: Clearly lit up the pine trees and the trees with just branches. The shead was lit up about twice as bright the the other two flashlights. 


Even at this distance the beam just dident want to stop :devil:

I would take pics but i dont know how to post pictures on here.


----------



## Rikr

I thought I read that the DEFT EDC could out throw the DBS and the A9 with no problem.. Is there anything that can be done to the DEFT to make it better?


----------



## Alex1234

Rikr said:


> I thought I read that the DEFT EDC could out throw the DBS and the A9 with no problem.. Is there anything that can be done to the DEFT to make it better?


 Look at post #407 thats a beamshot of the dbs aspheric and DEFT EDC LR


----------



## Rikr

Is the brighter DBS on the bottom?


----------



## Alex1234

Rikr said:


> Is the brighter DBS on the bottom?


 yes the bottom one is the dbs. it throws better but the tint on the edc is better


----------



## BarryH

And remember. That is the DEFT EDC LR in the above photo which throws a bit better than the older DEFT EDC.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

BarryH said:


> And remember. That is the DEFT EDC LR in the above photo which throws a bit better than the older DEFT EDC.



DEFT EDC 40k cd/lux
DEFT EDC LR 60k cd/lux
DBS 1.5A 90-100k cd/lux

You might be able to upgrade to the LR light engine, check out the OMG LUMENS site.


----------



## Rikr

Thank you everyone at least I have the best thrower the DBS 1.5 EZ900 with the asherical. I thought I always heard that the Deft was the best thrower you could buy. Thank you


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Hi Alex. 

Did U try to lid white objects at dark nights? Well DBS can lid or illuminate them over 1000 meter away... Of course in dark nights with 0 light pollution.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Rikr said:


> Thank you everyone at least I have the best thrower the DBS 1.5 EZ900 with the asherical. I thought I always heard that the Deft was the best thrower you could buy. Thank you



There used to be versions of the DEFT that had way more lux than the dbs but they are no longer on sale. You might be able to get one second hand. 
Fingers crossed a higher power DEFT will soon be available.


----------



## mohanjude

Rikr said:


> Thank you everyone at least I have the best thrower the DBS 1.5 EZ900 with the asherical. I thought I always heard that the Deft was the best thrower you could buy. Thank you



The DEFT EDC LR is a quite small and compact compared to the DBS V3 asperical - I find the DEFT EDC LR easier to carry in the pocket. However if you want brute power the DBS V3 apserical is more powerful but not that easy to carry around. It also looks 'different' and cuases a lot of comment. The original DEFT flashlight had a reputation for 'throw' but by no means pocketable.

I am constantly hunting for a pocketable DEFT flashlight and been experimenting with others such as the cheap chineese clones with asperical lenses , Lenslight and the Tri-V. I am very suprised how much the tiny Tri-V throws at full power (2amps) using the aperical lens. If it wasn't $2k I would use it every day.

mohan


----------



## troelskc

azzid said:


> I already did the wall focusing thing at about 4-5 meters, I even tried to focus it at that distance(the building itself). But the emitter won't focus clearly/sharply, maybe my lens is not that clear to begin with.
> 
> I'm gonna try focusing it again tonight and try to get a sharper image/hotspot at that distance, Thanks for the tip!:thumbsup:



I'm having the same problem - it can't focus to crystal clear on the DBS Aspheric EZ900. Anybody else got the same problem?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Troelskc

As I talked in this thread before. U got to be very lucky to get dbs with crystal clear lenses. I don't know why is that way. But lets say 3 of 10 are ultra clear according to my experience. It is a lottery. 

It throws far with blurrier lenses also... But with clear lenses it throws 1-5% more for sure...

They should have better lens control in a future and test each on flashlight...


----------



## troelskc

I see. Even though it's only 1-5 % more lux you'll get 10-20% more "wow factor!"

I've contacted Alan to get his opinion on this.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

troelskc said:


> I see. Even though it's only 1-5 % more lux you'll get 10-20% more "wow factor!"
> 
> I've contacted Alan to get his opinion on this.



I have two dbs aspheric lenses, one is very clear, the second is slightly blurry, but I do not notice a difference in use. I guess it all depends on just how blurry your sample is.


----------



## dieselducy

Alex1234 said:


> yes the bottom one is the dbs. it throws better but the tint on the edc is better


i havent been thru the whole thread but where do you get these lights? the DBS? What about the DEFT EDC? is that a good thrower? I need to throw about 200 yards at work.


----------



## Alex1234

Tatjanamagic said:


> Hi Alex.
> 
> Did U try to lid white objects at dark nights? Well DBS can lid or illuminate them over 1000 meter away... Of course in dark nights with 0 light pollution.


 im sure it can go 1000 meters. Someone in another thread said he lit up a farm 1200 meters away. 700 meters was the farthest distance i could find outside my home. That night was not the best night as there was a little haze.


----------



## Alex1234

I noticed some people here have blurry lens on the dbs. i just looked at mine and i would say its very clear. I can see the led very clearly. The only flaw on my lens is two small air bubbles and a scratch going from on side to the other.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

dieselducy said:


> i havent been thru the whole thread but where do you get these lights? the DBS? What about the DEFT EDC? is that a good thrower? I need to throw about 200 yards at work.



For the dbs go to page seven, post number 198. (direct with dereelight).
For the DEFT EDC LR, google 'OMG LUMENS'.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> For the dbs go to page seven, post number 198. (direct with dereelight).
> For the DEFT EDC LR, google 'OMG LUMENS'.



Buy from local dealers. Go their page and search for their dealers(flashlightconnection etc.)


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Tatjanamagic said:


> Buy from local dealers. Go their page and search for their dealers(flashlightconnection etc.)


Yeah, local is better if you can, just incase you have a problem. Just be sure they have the right pill.


----------



## cummins4x4

I got my Deree from Jay at flashlightconnection Just email him and he will configure exactly what you want, very helpful fellow and great service.


----------



## Alex1234

if i happen to get the aspherical lens dirty on my dbs what is the best way to clean it without scratching it?


----------



## varmint

I just ordered a pill and a aspherical lens from Jay, he can't be beat.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Alex1234 said:


> if i happen to get the aspherical lens dirty on my dbs what is the best way to clean it without scratching it?



Just wipe them with something. This lens are not fragile... They are very solid... You don't need to afraid of damaging it...

Did someone tested Nailbender's XPC?


----------



## troelskc

Tatjanamagic said:


> Did someone tested Nailbender's XPC?



Have he a pill for the DBS using the XP-C emitter? It should be the best thrower right? Because of the tiny size and high output.


----------



## cummins4x4

Got 4 Tenergy 5000's sitting in the charger, should be dark about the time they are charged. Then it's off in minus 27 degrees to see how the dual aspherical modded mag does with the right batteries.
Good to hear your ordered the aspherical head varmint, you will love it. What cells are you running?


----------



## varmint

4X4 I have most all sizes of batteries, tonight it has 2x18500 AW's in it, thats about the 'longest' length I like, I have all the extenders etc. I really like the size of 1x18650 or 2x123's or RCR123's but I know the others are more suited. All batteries are AW's.. The run time sofar has been great!!!
Any suggestions, send them on! This light has really got to me, I sure don't ever seen any of them around, they are great. I would own fewer lights if I had the Derrelight sooner. It will light up a 200yd target with 22cal bullet holes well enough to see them with my scope easily as it is.
Larry


----------



## duro

brandocommando said:


> My exact set-up! I got a Lumapower Turboforce head and a D-mini body off CPFMP for $38.00, and put a XR-E in it. It is running at 2A!!!
> 
> It THROOOOOOOOWS! It stomps my el-cheapo DX aspherical set-up (also an XR-E.)



Does it take a standard p60 pill? I'm trying to get this setup, but Lumapower doesnt have any xre's.


----------



## duro

Well, my OCD kicked in...Initially my dereelight dbs had a speck of some grease, or something from manufacture, on the dome of the LED. So I got a replacement pill. The new pill has a different color board in which the LED is mounted to and the soldering doesn't look as good as the first pill. So, I wound up using a q-tip and rubbing alcohol to remove the debris. Now I'm thinking about keeping the old pill. They both seem equally as bright. I need to build a light box...HEH


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

duro said:


> Does it take a standard p60 pill? I'm trying to get this setup, but Lumapower doesnt have any xre's.



You can screw in a p60 pill into the lumapower, but the threads are different, so it only goes in so far. In my experience, the hardest thing when doing this with the lumapower is getting the focus right. The xre r2 is very fussy about focussing, and so is the reflector in the lumapower turboforce head. Its a fair bit of messing around. Its a great thrower though, with usable spill. If you configure this flashlight with the r2 ez900 and use the smaller teleforce head it is far easier to achieve a satisfactory result, and achieves a hell of a lot more lux than the same pill in a p60 host, yet is smaller.


----------



## GulfCoastToad

saabluster said:


>



Thanks for posting. Is the y-axis brightness? I thought the DEC-LR was regulated.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

I would imagine its 100 percent.


----------



## eh4

Oh geez, I never liked the super focused led die image that the DEFT EDC projects, but i just now realized that if it were properly indexed and locked down it could act exactly like a giant front sight... This is especially cool if you were zeroed in just as with iron sights for a known maximum point blank range.


----------



## Phil40000

I have been away from this thread for a little while but I have not been idle! In the quest for the ultimate 'pocket' thrower I have put together something very special. Using the Dereelight ez900 R2 pill in a Cryos cooling bezel with Oveready crenelated ring, 2x123 Moodoo body and Triad tail cap with McClicky switch. The final touch was one of Ahortons famous aspheric lense kits for P60 lights. The light is colour coded jet black and looks sick. This thing really throws, not as well as the DBS but not far off. I had the similar sized Deft EDC but I hated the host light (Skyray?) which lacked a quality feel and also the momentary on feature which I need for quickly detecting which turd my dog just crimped off when walking him at night. The heavy crenelated bezel kicks up the SD possibilities and the cooling head does what it was meant to do. I will try and post a picture asap, the pill from the Dereelight fitted no sweat and performance wise I am very happy with the throw. The DBS just does not feel like it will last due to it's lacking build quality, I wanted to transpose it's best qualities onto a heavy use custom thrower.

Happy throwing,

Philip


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Sir Phill,

U R talking about DBS build quality... Well I will tell U that I and more than 60 people here(we are all hunters) Have this light mounted on worlds strongest caliber guns, Some are using it on .458W magnum and if this flashlight can withstand such recoils than that means that this is excellent built quality flashlight...

So if this light last for many years on hunters guns why it would not last for 100 years for someone who use it for dog walking?


----------



## Alex1234

The dbs build quality is great. One of the hightest quality lights i own. The asphiric lens is flawless and the type III anodizing is flawless. Tailcap switch has a nice durable feel and the threads are nice and smooth. Not to metion this light is the farthest throwing light i have being able to light up lightly colored objects like a house or farm over 1000 meters away. Dont see how the dbs can be considered lacking in build quality:shakehead


----------



## varmint

I 2nd the dbs as a great light, I use it every day here.


----------



## 2100

Other than the tailcap switch (tailcap is purchasable seperately if you ever need a hot standby), the DBS / pill system is pretty reliable and can withstand shocks. Even the lens can be purchased. Someone needs to drop it from 10-20 metres several times and check it out.


----------



## cummins4x4

My Deree will be getting mounted on a 25-06AI soon as I can get all the hardware together. I have put cheaper lights on 12g and never has an issue. I think the main cause of failure in a rifle mount is the type of battery and how it is secured to handle the recoil. Ya I know, I am preaching to the choir here


----------



## busseguy

You guys are really getting me excited about getting a DBS with the Aspheric head. I cant wait


----------



## Spypro

Mine STILL at the customs...
2012/01/1610:36MISSISSAUGAInternational item arrived in Canada and will be reviewed by Customs


----------



## Chrisdm

I just recieved my 1st two Dereelights today, and I was very impressex with their build quality. And that asperic ez900, holy shhhhh! I had the GREAT pleasure of being out in the desert with a few friends and they were simply confused as to how a light that fit into the palm of your hand could reach the mountainsides around us. Never had that much fun with a flashlight before!


----------



## duro

Tatjanamagic said:


> Sir Phill,
> 
> U R talking about DBS build quality... Well I will tell U that I and more than 60 people here(we are all hunters) Have this light mounted on worlds strongest caliber guns, Some are using it on .458W magnum and if this flashlight can withstand such recoils than that means that this is excellent built quality flashlight...
> 
> So if this light last for many years on hunters guns why it would not last for 100 years for someone who use it for dog walking?



Are you using the two 18650 configuration?


----------



## Streak

I am about to order the Dereelight XR-E R2 EZ900.
I see that the suggestion is to go for the 1SM over the 3SM. Is this only because the UI is a little clunky?
How does the multi level UI work? I would rather have the option of multi levels than a single level.

Also is the output of the 1.2A 18650 optimized 1S/3SD lower than the 1SM/3SM with 2x18650 or is it just a runtime issue?

Thanks.


----------



## Chrisdm

Streak, I am definitely a multi level guy. I got a bunch of lights, and every one is multi level. Except for my DBS aspherical EZ900... And basically, the reason is this. This light doesn't do anything except put a small beam of light at a very large distance. And of course this works best on high. This beam isn't the kind you would use on low to find the bathroom at night. This is a single purpose build machine with only one mode necessary to do what it does better than anything else.

FYI I have a DBS-T with XML & reflector also , and it has a nice UI. Tighten the head and it operates like a single mode light. This is good when you know you want high... Then loosen the head a bit and this allows you to select 3 brightness modes with half presses of the tail switch, like the old half-press you're probably used to.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

duro said:


> Are you using the two 18650 configuration?



Of course... With that configuration U have more than 1,30 minutes on lowest quality 18650 and more than 2 hours on better quality ones...

And listen Chrisdm advice no need for multi mode in this flashlight...


----------



## cccpull

Wouldn't it be best just to get the DBS-T with an aspherical head in multi-battery configuration?

The only other use I can see for this light (except for outdoors) is to light up a room with a ceiling bounce, in which case the multi-level light would be useful to extend battery life.


----------



## Spypro

I finally got mine today  Can't wait for tonight ! I'll take beamshots and post them here as soon as I can.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well my nicked up Derrelight arrived today. That's right nicked up. I'm not at all happy. Alan must have not looked this one over very well. And the modes don't change correctly using the switch. Quality control again is lacking.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Well my nicked up Derrelight arrived today. That's right nicked up. I'm not at all happy. Alan must have not looked this one over very well. And the modes don't change correctly using the switch. Quality control again is lacking.



Oh dear, thats not good. You are very unlucky.  I have two now, both arrived safely.


----------



## varmint

1st time I heard of this, call and send it back ASAP.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

I already sent Alan an email. But they are celebrating th Chinese New Year I beleive so I may have to wait a good while. This is the 2nd bad light I have got within the last 24hrs.


----------



## Phil40000

Hmmmm ^^^


----------



## Tatjanamagic

If U have any problem with your DBS read my post

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?325827-Dedicated-throwers/page12 

Post 6

Do exactly all what I am telling you and as I said before buy 1SM driver.

Read that... Real flashaholic should enjoy doing that stuff written in link above...


----------



## Burntrice

Still waiting for mine  was sent 10 days ago


----------



## troelskc

Another DBS beamshot. This is the EZ900 1.2 or 1.5A (not sure which one, probably the 1.5A because bought in december 2011.)

@ 30 m distance. (f/2.8, 1/28 s, ISO-200)








Heavy fog on the 2 last pics.

@ 4 m. (f/2.8, 4 s, ISO-400, Cloudy WB)







@ 17 m. (f/2.8, 4 s, ISO-400, Auto WB)


----------



## BLUE LED

Oh no ILF, I am still waiting for my aspheric Dereelight DBS to arrive. It seems like a lifetime ago, I hope it arrives soon with no problems.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well I hope they look at the light before they ship the ones out to you guys. I'm here to tell you that a blind man would have seen this big nick and the one beside it behind the head.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Hi troelskc

Im a little confused. When I zoom in on pic number two, the flashlight looks long, thin, and silver, it does not look like a dbs ?


----------



## troelskc

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Hi troelskc
> 
> Im a little confused. When I zoom in on pic number two, the flashlight looks long, thin, and silver, it does not look like a dbs ?



I dumped it in a beach umbrella stand, it fit nice and snug for the shot. Had a hard time extracting it again though.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

The threads of rear 18650 extender tube are bad too. I'm not very happy on quality of this light. I'd give it about a C.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Ah! I see 

Nice beamshots!


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> The threads of rear 18650 extender tube are bad too. I'm not very happy on quality of this light. I'd give it about a C.



How about when you focus it then fire it up? Impressed?


----------



## cccpull

Anyone have a picture of the DBS with 18650 extension, in hand, so as to see the size?

Thanks


----------



## troelskc

Here you go. This is with the aspherical lens, it's a little bit larger on the head.


----------



## Chrisdm

Are you guys ordering these from China? Did you know these are in stock from a US distributor? I ordered a DBS-T and an aspherical EZ900 and they arrived in pristine condition in about 2 days... I've recently learned the hard way that its a no-no to link to vendor sites, so I guess I can't tell you where I got mine from but I'm sure you should be able to find them (without going to China )...


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> How about when you focus it then fire it up? Impressed?



Up close and say only about 5 inches from a wall this light isn't that impressive compared to my higher lumen flashlights. But when you back up about 5 or 6 feet this light will smoke all of my other LED flashlights. It's not even dark here yet but it is overcast and I can see the beem already outside. I can already tell this thing is going to be super thrower. I'll show you guys some pictures later even though this one is going back. I can shine this light around 400yds behind my house.

And to be fair I would give the quality B-. The problem with the tailcap getting started is due to the double o-rings on the back. They are to flimsy and the back one spins out of the gap. If mine wasn't nicked up, I might be more likely to grade it a B+.


----------



## cccpull

troelskc,

Thanks!


----------



## troelskc

You don't need to link to 'em but you could just write the name. 

I bought mine directly from Dereelight (Hong Kong).


----------



## Burntrice

troelskc said:


> You don't need to link to 'em but you could just write the name.
> 
> I bought mine directly from Dereelight (Hong Kong).



+1 
I couldn't get the configuration i wanted from any of the UK distributors.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Guys I got my new Crelant 7G5 in the mail today. And it looks even brighter up close than the M3X now. Don't know if it will out throw the M3X yet, but look at this picture on the wall at little over 20 ft. That's the Dereelight DBS V3 XR-E R2 3SM aspherical lens light on top of the Crelant 7G5. Now that is bad right there.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

I'll try and get you a good shot at that white horsebarn from this view at about 400yds later tonite.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Lol at the hotspot over the crelant. There really is no comparison. All the usual xml suspects cant touch the dbs for throw, not even close. The dbs is in another league. Period.


----------



## BLUE LED

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Guys I got my new Crelant 7G5 in the mail today. And it looks even brighter up close than the M3X now. Don't know if it will out throw the M3X yet, but look at this picture on the wall at little over 20 ft. That's the Dereelight DBS V3 XR-E R2 3SM aspherical lens light on top of the Crelant 7G5. Now that is bad right there.



I'm glad you got your Crelant 7G5. If you get a chance please could you take some lux measurements. Maybe we can finally who is the king of single XM-L throw. I think 2100 said he's 7G5 was a little better before it was changed to T6.

If any others who have both, please could you chime in with your lux readings and findings etc. This one has been on my mind for a long time.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Up close and say only about 5 inches from a wall this light isn't that impressive compared to my higher lumen flashlights. But when you back up about 5 or 6 feet this light will smoke all of my other LED flashlights. It's not even dark here yet but it is overcast and I can see the beem already outside. I can already tell this thing is going to be super thrower. I'll show you guys some pictures later even though this one is going back. I can shine this light around 400yds behind my house.
> 
> And to be fair I would give the quality B-. The problem with the tailcap getting started is due to the double o-rings on the back. They are to flimsy and the back one spins out of the gap. If mine wasn't nicked up, I might be more likely to grade it a B+.



Did U read this? If U have any problem with your DBS read my post

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...hrowers/page12 

Post 6

You got spare O ring change them or swap position and read my post. They usually come lubed with silicone grease and every part is loosened so U need to reassemble an properly lube it...

This is modular flashlight and that is different from classic non modular flashlight...


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

I don't have lux meter. 

And yes I read it. 

It's raining here now so I won't be posting any picture probably tonite.


----------



## BLUE LED

I am looking forward to your comparison photos


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well I can already tell that this Dereelight ain't going to out throw my big halogen spotlight from just looking at it even though it is raining. But this ain't an easy beam to beat.


----------



## Ptery83

I also ordered the DBS V3 along with an extender and aspheric head from the Dereelight website. It has been a little over a week which is alright, but I was wondering if anyone with experience knows how long the shipping from there normally takes?


----------



## cummins4x4

My custom Mag with 2 aspherical lens out throws my Deree but at 250k lux with 20k mah behind it I am not surprised but


----------



## duro

troelskc said:


> Another DBS beamshot. This is the EZ900 1.2 or 1.5A (not sure which one, probably the 1.5A because bought in december 2011.)
> 
> @ 30 m distance. (f/2.8, 1/28 s, ISO-200)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heavy fog on the 2 last pics.
> 
> @ 4 m. (f/2.8, 4 s, ISO-400, Cloudy WB)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @ 17 m. (f/2.8, 4 s, ISO-400, Auto WB)



Interesting, I have the same light/emitter. Yours seems way better than mine.


----------



## duro

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Well I hope they look at the light before they ship the ones out to you guys. I'm here to tell you that a blind man would have seen this big nick and the one beside it behind the head.



Flashlightconnection is the place to go. Great guy. He'll take good care of you.


----------



## varmint

Jay will take care of you for sure also about 3 day shipping..........!!!!!!!!!


----------



## duro

Well, I just fed the DBS aspheric my newly purchased callies kustoms 18650 3100mah batteries. AWSOME. These are some nice batteries, they don't fit well in everything, but fit perfect in the DBS.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

varmint said:


> Jay will take care of you for sure also about 3 day shipping..........!!!!!!!!!



That's who I am sending mine back to.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Not the best nite to take pictures due to the mositure after the rain, but I thought I would take this one to show you guys before I have to send mine back. 

80yds Dereelight DBS V3 XR-E R2 3SM Aspherical Lens


----------



## Burntrice

Just to calm those who have one on order and might be worried, mine turned up this morning and I cant see a thing wrong with it. At some point today i'll grab some photo's. Cant wait for darkness!


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Happy days
Have fun


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Its a great shame that it seems none of the UK dealers have caught on with this new dereelight pill. We should all email them about it, well those of us in the UK anyway.


----------



## BLUE LED

Nice beam shot. I hope mine arrives before the CPF meet Sat 4th Feb. It has been a couple of weeks. I'm glad your aspheric DBS arrived with no problems.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Thanks. I know that picture has a lot of blue in it. I tried taking it another way and it looked the same. That's just about how dang bright it is seeing the beam live too. The beam on this light is so concentrated. That is why it throws so well.


----------



## Burntrice

As soon as it gets dark i'll have a go at some beam shots


----------



## Tatjanamagic

I see U don't have tube so U must put 2×cr123 inside...


----------



## Burntrice

Tatjanamagic said:


> I see U don't have tube so U must put 2×cr123 inside...


Yep, would rather have a smaller light then longer run time. (and a pocket full of RCR's) :duh2:


----------



## Burntrice

I thought I would compare it to my only other thrower..






Jetbeam RRT-1 R2 and DBS V3 XR-E R2 Aspheric






Control Shot






Jetbeam RRT-1 R2






DBS V3 XR-E R2 Aspheric


That Jetbeam is still a fantastic thrower but its blown out of the water by the DBS
I'm very tempted to jump in the car, drive somewhere quiet and play with my new lightsaber!


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Yep not many other LED lights I know of will beat it for lux and throw as far as a manufactured light and not some souped up thrower. Nice shots there.


----------



## RBH

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS


Do you find that the lack of spill in the aspherical makes it more of a novelty light than one that will throw 150 to 200 yards with bright spill. Say like the M3X.

Bruce




ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Yep not many other LED lights I know of will beat it for lux and throw as far as a manufactured light and not some souped up thrower. Nice shots there.


----------



## Streak

RBH said:


> ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS
> 
> 
> Do you find that the lack of spill in the aspherical makes it more of a novelty light than one that will throw 150 to 200 yards with bright spill. Say like the M3X.
> 
> Bruce


I would also be most interested to find out.
I have the Klarus XT20 which has quite a wow factor when switched on, a whole lot of flood with some very decent throw too.
I am looking for a whole lot of throw but with some decent spill too. I was thinking about getting the Deree but think it may just be to tight for me.


----------



## cummins4x4

I'll jump in here. I have a Deree and custom Mag aspherical. For trying to spot an object, coyote for example, whether in an open field or treed cover the tight spot is vastly superior. There is no spill reflecting back at you to ruin your night adapted vision. This is very helpful on a scoped rifle with one of these lights mounted. Also the concentrated beam will light up objects MUCH farther than any reflector light I have used. The Mag will light up vehicles in my neighbours yard in excess of 1000 yards. Don't know if a killer HID would do this but not likely in a handheld unit. Hope this is helpful. Plus seeing that beam reaching out across the countryside has a lot of "wow" factor.


----------



## duro

Just a quick question, I am supposed to have the xre 1.5 amp. Why does it say 2sm on the pill, yet dereelight doesn't show that type on their website?


----------



## 00ChevyScott

How do I go about ordering a DBS v3? I've looked at flashlightconnection but all I see are parts for these flashlights. Do I just buy the host and the aspheric lens and that's all? The v3 host is out of stock there currently. Will I have to buy the LED to in the host? Sorry for the questions, just wondering what exactly I would need to buy to have a light like those above.


----------



## duro

It's in the new dereelight twist category


----------



## my#1hobby

00ChevyScott said:


> How do I go about ordering a DBS v3? I've looked at flashlightconnection but all I see are parts for these flashlights. Do I just buy the host and the aspheric lens and that's all? The v3 host is out of stock there currently. Will I have to buy the LED to in the host? Sorry for the questions, just wondering what exactly I would need to buy to have a light like those above.


It's being sold under the DBS-T model now. Flashlightconnection is selling the aspheric setup ready to go in one package.



duro said:


> Just a quick question, I am supposed to have the xre 1.5 amp. Why does it say 2sm on the pill, yet dereelight doesn't show that type on their website?


Mine says the same thing. I dunno either, but it seems bright to me.


----------



## Chrisdm

RBH said:


> Do you find that the lack of spill in the aspherical makes it more of a novelty light than one that will throw 150 to 200 yards with bright spill. Say like the M3X.
> 
> Bruce



Bruce, "novelty" is not the correct term. It should be thought of as "specialty"... As many of you know I'm a team leader for a search/rescue team, and the DBS asherical is my new distance spotter. Sometimes we are searching the brush at our feet at night, and this light would be a bad choice for that task. But other times (like last night in fact), we are searching for hikers coming down mountainsides which could be thousands of feet above us. For this task, and many others, there's nothing better than an ashperical light. It is simply a matter of matching the right tool to the task at hand. And if you're doing some sort of distance spotting in the dark, there's nothing novelty about this one. It is a seriously capable tool.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Chrisdm said:


> Bruce, "novelty" is not the correct term. It should be thought of as "specialty"... As many of you know I'm a team leader for a search/rescue team, and the DBS asherical is my new distance spotter. Sometimes we are searching the brush at our feet at night, and this light would be a bad choice for that task. But other times (like last night in fact), we are searching for hikers coming down mountainsides which could be thousands of feet above us. For this task, and many others, there's nothing better than an ashperical light. It is simply a matter of matching the right tool to the task at hand. And if you're doing some sort of distance spotting in the dark, there's nothing novelty about this one. It is a seriously capable tool.



I agree. 

Guys, this little Dereelight is in my honest opinion one you must have if you want to be amazed by throw from a LED flashlight. Nothing you have in a LED more than likely will touch it. Now I can take my big halogen and shine it on a wall on top of the Dereelight beam and it is brighter to my eye, but your talking about a light with a super big 8.75" diameter reflector. The Dereelight isn't going to have any useful spill, but you know that beforehand isn't the reason why your buying it in the first place. The throwability of this light for it's size is second to none. Like I said the picture I showed you with my new Crelant 7G5 and the Dereelight on top of it is a sight to see. And this new 7G5 is probably now my best XM-L thower.


----------



## duro

Has anyone tried the xml dereelight pill with their aspheric?


----------



## varmint

About ordering, I have ordered several things from Jay at Flashlight connection and just email him as to what you want, the website is not up to date sometimes, his service and quick replies are very good. One order I got was in 2 days !!! Most in 3 days total!!! One word of advive if you should order the Dereelight is to get both the 18650 and the 18500 extenders with it on the 1st order as you will forsure get them later. Another thing is an AW cell (18500) will need a piece of tape on it to prevent rattle if it bothers you. 
I use my Dereelight everynight since I have got it and as I said awhile back if I had known about it sooner I would have fewer lights as the Dereelight can be configured in so many ways so easily, the runtime for me has been excellent on 2x18500's, I keep waiting for them to need a charge but they just keep on working, I am getting about 3 weeks on a charge!
The only problem I have found with this light is I seldom use my others since I have got it! I will have some fun with my Dereelight the 28th, I am attending a tradeshow where they always have a dealer pushing cheap China lights that sometimes asks : have a light on you? will it do this? and may offer batteries or something as a gimmick if yours would out throw his, my TN11 made his look like it was not even on, I can imagine what the Dereelight would do.
later Larry..........


----------



## troelskc

Yep, I've tried it out. The larger die will just project a larger hotspot, about 4x the size of the XR-E R2.



duro said:


> Has anyone tried the xml dereelight pill with their aspheric?


----------



## varmint

Did it seem as bright?


----------



## troelskc

Not really. It may be 600-700 lumens but the size of the hotspot makes it about the same britghness or less.


----------



## varmint

I am planning or running mine on 2x18500's any idea of what I may be getting with the EZ900?? Or if I used 2xRCR123's to get the shorter size.
Thanks


----------



## troelskc

You'll get full output?



varmint said:


> I am planning or running mine on 2x18500's any idea of what I may be getting with the EZ900??
> Thanks


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

va willint said:


> Did it seem as bright?




The xml will have alot less lux, so it will not throw as far.


----------



## RCantor

RBH said:


> ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS
> 
> 
> Do you find that the lack of spill in the aspherical makes it more of a novelty light than one that will throw 150 to 200 yards with bright spill. Say like the M3X.
> 
> Bruce



+1 on it being a special purpose tool. I spend a lot of time walking through forests during the day and night looking for things. During the day there are some pretty deep shadows. a narrow beam thrower lights up those shadows in the daytime and saves you hours of wading back and forth. It lets me see everything for 30-50 feet (the light is bright much further but the objects are too small to see) and easily makes me 5x more productive.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Wow... We are pushing this thread increasingly far...

Luminosity when will U will receive XPC from nailbender?


----------



## varmint

I hope it keeps on going longer I have learned more about my Dereelight than ever before, thanks to all!!!!!!!!!!!!!☺☺☺


----------



## RCantor

Tatjanamagic said:


> Wow... We are pushing this thread increasingly far...
> 
> Luminosity when will U will receive XPC from nailbender?



I'm not Luminosity nor do I play him on TV. I have NB's XP-C and it's not brighter than his XRE at 12 feet so he was telling the truth. It does have a narrower beam - I haven't tested them over a long distance so I can't comment on the throw.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

RCantor said:


> I'm not Luminosity nor do I play him on TV. I have NB's XP-C and it's not brighter than his XRE at 12 feet so he was telling the truth. It does have a narrower beam - I haven't tested them over a long distance so I can't comment on the throw.



Hi

Does your NB XPC have one central wire to the led face, or does it have two, one to each corner? My nb xpc looks like the middle picture.


----------



## kwak

Anyone know of any other on-line stores that sell the dereelight's please?

For some odd reason flashlightconnection ship to the UK but not to Greece :thumbsdow


----------



## Burntrice

kwak said:


> Anyone know of any other on-line stores that sell the dereelight's please
> 
> For some odd reason flashlightconnection ship to the UK but not to Greece :thumbsdow



Try going straight to dereelight, mine turned up in 11 days, no shipping cost


----------



## kwak

Burntrice said:


> Try going straight to dereelight, mine turned up in 11 days, no shipping cost



Fantastic thanks.

Just looking on that site and i have a couple of questions please.
I want the best throw possible configuration, so am i right in saying i want the package at the bottom of this page 
http://www.dereelight.com/dbs-t.htm

Aspherical lens flashlight-T with XR-E R2
Pill(engine): 2MT-M)

If so is it then the "*EXT500*" extension tube i want for this light to run 2 x 18650?


Lastly it would be nice that have a normal head with the 700Lm so i can swap heads when setting up camp.
Is it a simple case of just unsrewing 1 head and screwing on the other to swap?

If so have found the "*700 lumens XM-L T6*" drop in module and think i need the "*3SM*" "*SMO*" in the options.
It seems though from the pics that the Aspherical head is a fair bit bigger than the normal head, so will i also need a different head as well, or is it simply a case of swapping the Aspherical lens for a normal lens?


Cheers
Mark


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

The EXT650 is for using two x 18650. The heads are swapped by just unscrewing one and screwing on the other. They are two complete heads.


----------



## troelskc

I have Neutral White XM-L pill 3SM + the EXT650 ( the batteries name is 18*650*) and both the SMO and OP, I find the XM-L + SMO the best combo for throw and a usefull spill. If you would go for more spill, you should buy the CL1H, it has a way smaller head and therefore the OP's spill will be much better than it will i the DBS. The DBS is made for throw, and putting an OP reflector in it would be somewhat of a joke (my personal oppinion).



kwak said:


> Lastly it would be nice that have a normal head with the 700Lm so i can swap heads when setting up camp.
> Is it a simple case of just unsrewing 1 head and screwing on the other to swap?
> 
> If so have found the "*700 lumens XM-L T6*" drop in module and think i need the "*3SM*" "*SMO*" in the options.
> It seems though from the pics that the Aspherical head is a fair bit bigger than the normal head, so will i also need a different head as well, or is it simply a case of swapping the Aspherical lens for a normal lens?
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Mark



BTW, if you go for the DBS + CL1H combo, you should choose the 1SM option for the DBS and the CL1H-T perhaps. 
Good luck!


----------



## Tatjanamagic

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Hi
> 
> Does your NB XPC have one central wire to the led face, or does it have two, one to each corner? My nb xpc looks like the middle picture.



Friend he obviously did not put XPC emitter inside...It should be narrower and must have hole in the middle... I am very disappointing to hear that...

It is science fiction to tune up usually 0,4 - 0,5 current XPC to 1,7 amp current!!! That should be extreme tuning known to only few people. So we have to wait for best expert in this field Mr. Saabluster...

Luminosity I am sure that you see very well and if U see middle picture than U have XPE or XRE R2 ez 1000...

My green XPC is driven at 0,4 amp current and it throws over 50 k/lux meter... So U all know maths and how it should throw tuned to 1,7 amp curent... Well over 210 k/lux meter...


----------



## varmint

I just recieved the ASP lens for my Derrelight, charger plugged in with 18500's and waiting for tonight to get here


----------



## psychbeat

So I have an ez900 @~1.5a behind an Ahorton kit in an L2P. 

Is the consensus that an XP-C would only be a narrower beam without higher lux?

Ive been thinking of ordering a 1.7a xpc from NB when I've got some $ for lights. 
Wondering if it's a worthy upgrade over the ez900 I have. 

My ez is direct to mini copper slug so maybe I could just solder another 7135 to it- or have some do it for me 
Its currently a 3 mode and I'd prefer single for a thrower. 

I remember Saab or someone posting a chart w surface brightness and XP-C was tops.


----------



## RBH

I understand. You have to match the tool to the job. 



Chrisdm said:


> Bruce, "novelty" is not the correct term. It should be thought of as "specialty"... As many of you know I'm a team leader for a search/rescue team, and the DBS asherical is my new distance spotter. Sometimes we are searching the brush at our feet at night, and this light would be a bad choice for that task. But other times (like last night in fact), we are searching for hikers coming down mountainsides which could be thousands of feet above us. For this task, and many others, there's nothing better than an ashperical light. It is simply a matter of matching the right tool to the task at hand. And if you're doing some sort of distance spotting in the dark, there's nothing novelty about this one. It is a seriously capable tool.


----------



## RBH

I take it your latest Crelant is brighter than your M3X. 

Bruce



ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> I agree.
> 
> Guys, this little Dereelight is in my honest opinion one you must have if you want to be amazed by throw from a LED flashlight. Nothing you have in a LED more than likely will touch it. Now I can take my big halogen and shine it on a wall on top of the Dereelight beam and it is brighter to my eye, but your talking about a light with a super big 8.75" diameter reflector. The Dereelight isn't going to have any useful spill, but you know that beforehand isn't the reason why your buying it in the first place. The throwability of this light for it's size is second to none. Like I said the picture I showed you with my new Crelant 7G5 and the Dereelight on top of it is a sight to see. And this new 7G5 is probably now my best XM-L thower.


----------



## cummins4x4

I was just emailing another member about his new aspherical Deree. The analogy I used was it is like an overbore wildcat cartridge compared to a shotgun. Longrange heavy hitting precision tool.


----------



## varmint

It works great, like a big laser!!! 1800 feet to my back gate from the road and it makes it look like daylight there, I had a friend shine it with me at the gate and I could not look at the light it was so concentrated and bright, I could very easy see the keyhole on the lock and the word "Master Lock" on the bottom!! As he said its a very specialized tool for a special job.


----------



## shilent

All this talk and screenshots made me order a aspherical head for my CL1H V4. I was looking at the instructions on the Dereelight website, and from what I gather, I can use the pills from my Nailbender P60 drop ins. All I would need to do is unscrew the reflector from the pill, then screw the pill into the aspherical head. Is this right?


----------



## RCantor

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Hi
> 
> Does your NB XPC have one central wire to the led face, or does it have two, one to each corner? My nb xpc looks like the middle picture.



I'm not sure. I'm traveling for work and didn't bring it with me. I should be able to look at it by the weekend. It's tiny, though. Smaller than my XRE.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

RBH said:


> I take it your latest Crelant is brighter than your M3X.
> 
> Bruce



I think so. It's pretty close, but you can tell the difference on a wall up close or at farther distances. The hotspot on the 7G5 is just brighter.


----------



## varmint

shilent----------------I believe it fits just fine. I am new to all this and learning every day reading here, but 1 thing forsure if I had got my Derrelight sooner I would have alot less lights, and I dont have many.


----------



## BarryH

shilent - Yes, it will work and fits just fine. Just make sure in the P60 drop you buy that the pill is not glued into the P60 reflector. Some builders glue them to fix the focus.


----------



## j_rico

Hello All,

Thanks for all the information in this thread. Just about ready to place an order with Dereelight based upon what I have read here. One question and it may have been answered and I do not know enough about lights to get it. It looks like the DBS V3 will get you awesome throw. What if you want a little spill (flood? Not sure of the right term). If you are willing to give up a little distance for a little more area, is there a Dereelight option or should you be looking elsewhere?


----------



## varmint

Rico you will not really be pleased with the Asperical lens unless you want all throw, the next best would be the smooth reflector and the pill you want or tell Jay this at Flashlight Conection what you want.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

varmint said:


> I just repeat myself but the Thrunite TN11 is awesome



ya ...well we'll see about that, cuz I just dang ordered one !


----------



## varmint

Get the extenders with it as you will later for sure, I bet you will love the performance of it, try 2x18500's, not too long, great run time and super bright.
Larry


----------



## Hoop

My SR-90 shining across my parents field to a barn appx 380 feet away:


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

That's bad to the bone right there. I got something that will throw with that SR90. 

200yds to the woods







350yds to that white barn


----------



## mohanjude

OK I have tried to assemble my own pocket rocket asperical.

I purchased
1. Ahorton 28mm aspherical lens
2. the cheap dealxtreme asperical lenses (they are less convex than Ahorton's)
3. Host - Solarforce L2m (running on 18350 x1)
4. XRE- ez900 pill 1.8am

I can get the host to work with the cheap dealextrme lenses (focussing ok) but not with Ahorton 28 mm asperical lens. Is that because I haven't got the mounting kit which is sold out? I tried to manually focus but not much luck.

I also purchased a solarsun asperical torch which is quite compact and not a bad thrower for $15.

any tips on my pocket rocket.. ?


----------



## psychbeat

I have the Ahorton kit but I think
you can paint a standard reflector flat black and be all good. 

Install the lense under the outer bezel ring of the L2p 
The stock crenelated one covers the lens perfectly so u can headstand it. 

Mines great!

I am waiting to hear back on whether or not upgrading my ez900 to XP-C is worth it 

Edit - oops I have the L2P not familiar with yer host.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

RCantor said:


> I'm not sure. I'm traveling for work and didn't bring it with me. I should be able to look at it by the weekend. It's tiny, though. Smaller than my XRE.



I have two xre r2 ez900 pills, and the led surface on those is larger than my nb pill, but it is the same makeup as the xpe.


----------



## spexmaniac

I have a solarforce pro 1 head, and mine too runs on 3xAAA, I do have some spare bodies tho so it usually has an 18650 tube on it. It has an amazingly long tight beam, easily as good as a Thrunite V3 in range although not as bigger spot on target.


----------



## j_rico

varmint said:


> Rico you will not really be pleased with the Asperical lens unless you want all throw, the next best would be the smooth reflector and the pill you want or tell Jay this at Flashlight Conection what you want.



Thanks. Eventually the answer will be 'one of each'. But, one thing at a time.


----------



## j_rico

Hoop said:


> My SR-90 shining across my parents field to a barn appx 380 feet away:



That looks like exactly like what I am looking for. Does Deerelight have something that will produce a beam like that?


----------



## ahorton

psychbeat said:


> I have the Ahorton kit but I think
> you can paint a standard reflector flat black and be all good.


You don't need to paint it. It won't affect the beam. What you need to do is drill out the reflector and raise the LED about 10mm (big cube of aluminium or copper is best) into the hole. Then cut the refector down a little until it is roughly focused with the lens sitting on top. Then screw the reflector in or out to fine-focus.


----------



## ahorton

I've been reading this thread for a while. So I might as well mention my 'dedicated thrower' The Handspike, though it's not really 'dedicated' since it has flood-spot capability.


----------



## RBH

Which light is it ?




ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> That's bad to the bone right there. I got something that will throw with that SR90.
> 
> 200yds to the woods
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 350yds to that white barn


----------



## bigchelis

Here is a link to some dedicated throwers side by side pictures for you to see.

It is the SR90 all 98K lux of it vs. a VaraPower Turbo bezel at 120K lux.

http://flashlightnews.net/forum/index.php?topic=2682.60


Look at post 30 and on. The SR90 has a tighter beam but the VPT puts alot more light at distance.

bigC


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS




----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Like I said the Dereelight will not out throw that.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

lol of course it will not  Do U have gun license for that?


----------



## cccpull

I have one of those, too. It's a great workout if you can't make it to the gym. Use like like a kettle bell.


----------



## varmint

What is the runtime??????


----------



## RBH

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

I have a Stanley HID and a Maelstrom G5. I think the Stanley will handily out throw or at least out bright the Dereelight, and the G5 is bright and handy in size. I believe the XM-L throwers would make more sense for me as a good mid range light. Do you think you might try the Xstar S1 ? That one seems to throw like the Crellant or M3X with huge spill.

Thanks Bruce



ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Like I said the Dereelight will not out throw that.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Bruce,

I love the looks of the Xtar S1. What I don't like is the price. I can buy Fenix TK61 for right at $160 shipped, and it will out throw the S1.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

varmint said:


> What is the runtime??????



10 min. But I just bought it to light up the nite. And it does do that very well.


----------



## cccpull

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> 10 min. But I just bought it to light up the nite. And it does do that very well.



If it's only 10 minutes your battery is shot, it should be more like 40-45 minutes.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

That reflector would be good to mount on some direct source(car charger, etc)... It can be very handy sometimes...


----------



## shilent

Why doesn't my Thrunight XPG pill fit in my Dereelight aspherical head? I'm guessing the threads is different. My Nailbender pills fit fine. Is this normal? 

First two pictures are from my Nailbender SST-50.





















Any pill suggestions? I'd like one that could operated on 3.7V or 1 18650.


----------



## Mr. Tone

I ruined not one but two Thrunite pills by trying to put them in my Dereelight DBS. The problem is not the threading but in the diameter of the brass underneath the threading. If you look at a Dereelight pill you will see it is smaller and tapered whereas the Thrunite one is a straight wall with no taper. It is too tight to fit in the joint between the body and head in mine and got stuck.


----------



## Alex1234

Mr. Tone said:


> I ruined not one but two Thrunite pills by trying to put them in my Dereelight DBS. The problem is not the threading but in the diameter of the brass underneath the threading. If you look at a Dereelight pill you will see it is smaller and tapered whereas the Thrunite one is a straight wall with no taper. It is too tight to fit in the joint between the body and head in mine and got stuck.


 I just put my thrunite xpg dropin pill in my dree aspheric and it works perfectly. throws a bit more then my pro 1 with the xpg.


----------



## shilent

Alex1234 said:


> I just put my thrunite xpg dropin pill in my dree aspheric and it works perfectly. throws a bit more then my pro 1 with the xpg.



Does it screw all the way in? Or does it fit like mines?


----------



## Alex1234

mine goes all the way in. fits just the the deree ez900 pill


----------



## RBH

Is this the light you have ?

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...avorite-20-Million-Plus-Candlepower-Spotlight

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_20-Million-Candle-Power-Spotlight-Autocraft_10090105-P_N3158_A|GRP2044_____



ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Like I said the Dereelight will not out throw that.


----------



## RBH

I don't know if this is still available or not. The picture on amazon looks similar but the reviews are bad.

Bruce

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...le-Spotlight&p=3213481&highlight=#post3213481


----------



## shilent

Does anyone know if a XRE R2 1.7 amp from Nailbender will out throw the XRE R2 EZ900 1.5 amp pill from Flashlightconnection in a Dereelight aspheric? And, what's the difference between the EZ900 and EZ1000?


----------



## Alex1234

The ez900 is a smaller led then the ez1000 so it will throw more so i dont think the xre r2 1.7 amp from nailbender will throw more unless it is an ez900 then it will because the deree one is 1.5 amp.


----------



## write2dgray

Excellent and informative discussion here - thanks to all for enlightening noobs.

I'm a long-time lurker with a fair share of modding experience and a growing flashlight collection under my belt. One idea I've been considering and I wonder if others have tried is the use of LED fiber-optic couplers in a thrower application. These are designed to focus the LED output to 8mm:
http://www.luxeonstar.com/Carclo-Fiber-Coupling-20mm-Optic-No-Holder-p/10356.htm

They are also available for a 7 Rebel LED assembly here , as another example with a 12mm diameter output:
http://www.luxeonstar.com/Polymer-Optics-7-LED-Cluster-Concentrator-Optic-p/263.htm

Any and all feedback on this concept is appreciated (now off to buy a Dereelight aspherical in the meantime).

Cheers,
David


----------



## Tatjanamagic

shilent said:


> Does anyone know if a XRE R2 1.7 amp from Nailbender will out throw the XRE R2 EZ900 1.5 amp pill from Flashlightconnection in a Dereelight aspheric? And, what's the difference between the EZ900 and EZ1000?



Friend this was explained over 1000 times on CPF... Don't be so lazy...


----------



## shilent

XRE R2 EZ900 @ 1.5 amp vs XRE R2 EZ1000 @ 1.7 amp been explained a thousand times? If so then I apologize for not doing a thorough search.


----------



## mohanjude

shilent said:


> XRE R2 EZ900 @ 1.5 amp vs XRE R2 EZ1000 @ 1.7 amp been explained a thousand times? If so then I apologize for not doing a thorough search.


 Well literally... I think what he was trying to say is that after 22 pages this thread is become very very long - most of it very useful info but some of it is the same question been asked a few dozen times. Every few posts somebody will chime in with the same type of question ... I suppose it gets a bit repetetive when you have been following the thread for a while. I found that starting to read the thread from page 1 onwards was very useful as the thread evolved the discussion evolved. Get the Ez900 pill and you will not regret it if you are after a thrower. I am now finding it hard to get the EZ900 pill apart from DBS and a select pill makers on this forum mohan


----------



## saabluster

write2dgray said:


> Excellent and informative discussion here - thanks to all for enlightening noobs.
> 
> I'm a long-time lurker with a fair share of modding experience and a growing flashlight collection under my belt. One idea I've been considering and I wonder if others have tried is the use of LED fiber-optic couplers in a thrower application. These are designed to focus the LED output to 8mm:
> http://www.luxeonstar.com/Carclo-Fiber-Coupling-20mm-Optic-No-Holder-p/10356.htm
> 
> They are also available for a 7 Rebel LED assembly here , as another example with a 12mm diameter output:
> http://www.luxeonstar.com/Polymer-Optics-7-LED-Cluster-Concentrator-Optic-p/263.htm
> 
> Any and all feedback on this concept is appreciated (now off to buy a Dereelight aspherical in the meantime).
> 
> Cheers,
> David



Will not work like you'd think it might. Been there, done that. Tried just about every scheme you could imagine.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

I have been thinking something... I know that there are laser flashlights, and I tried them and not happy at all...

But laser instead of emitter sounds tempting to me... Will you ever try that Saabluster?


----------



## write2dgray

saabluster said:


> Will not work like you'd think it might. Been there, done that. Tried just about every scheme you could imagine.


Excellent sir, just what I needed to hear to quiet those voices. And I've followed your postings, so when you say it's been tried I believe you . Thanks!


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> I have been thinking something... I know that there are laser flashlights, and I tried them and not happy at all...
> 
> But laser instead of emitter sounds tempting to me... Will you ever try that Saabluster?



Depends on what you mean. The existing laser flashlights are junk. Not going that route. I was just going to keep quiet about it here but now that I think about it I guess it doesn't matter. I am indeed working on laser diode pumped phosphor technology that can be used in next generation lights. There are inherent obstacles with this though. Some have already been overcome. Such as how do you deal with such massive concentrations of light/heat without the phosphor burning. Safety remains the most pressing concern. The lasers involved with this are extremely dangerous. As such I cannot say with certainty whether I will ever release anything laser based. No worries though. There is still a *lot* of room for LED tech to grow in the throw department yet


----------



## gcbryan

There's absolute best and that can keep improving as Michael is doing. There is also practical best. Considering price and size and eyesight 

I'm amazed at a light that recently came out. It's $14, it's the Smallsun ZY-C10-S. It's a C10 sized light. One 18650, using a XR-E R2 driven at 1A with a 40mm OD head and at least using my inexpensive light meter outside at 10 meters factored back to 1 meter I get 52kcd. The beam for an aspheric is pretty good as well. Better than any of my others.

I'm impressed by the Deereelight DBS-T with turbohead (approximately 52mm I think) and driven at 1.5A. I don't have it but have considered it. It's about $100 I think. It has an output of 90kcd. However that only out throws my smaller $14 light by 33%. At a point good enough and inexpensive enough does the job as well sometimes.

The workmanship on the $14 light is even impressive for that price range. There really isn't any practical use that I have for more throw than that light provides. I'm always interested in something that throws more just out of general interest but getting 52kcs out of a nice looking light that is $14 is appealing and it's hard to justify spending 6 times more for something that throws only marginally better.


----------



## Fresh Light

Some pics.








*Olight SR90*








*VPT5700k*




\





*

OMG Lumens DEFT
*


----------



## BLUE LED

WOW, you have got to love that VPT5700k. I hope they will be available soon.


----------



## RCantor

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Hi
> 
> Does your NB XPC have one central wire to the led face, or does it have two, one to each corner? My nb xpc looks like the middle picture.



I don't have enough magnification to see the wires. All I can tell you is the NB XP-C die is significantly smaller than NB XR-E die. I don't have an XP-E to compare it to. If I can find an inexpensive magnifier I'll post back.


----------



## RBH

I posted this on 1-7-2012. Didn't get a single reply.

Bruce

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-in-throwers&p=3840925&highlight=#post3840925



saabluster said:


> . There is still a *lot* of room for LED tech to grow in the throw department yet


----------



## mikesantor

I have a question. I will admit that I diligently read through approx half of this thread then skimmed the rest. ADD kicked in and I was done for.

Any ways, what is the correlation to diameter of aspheric lens and throw in a aspheric set up? 

Reason I ask is I built/had built my first aspheric a few months ago. Knowing full well what LEDs were the best for this I still went away from the grain and tried to get some higher lumens with the SST 90 with a melles griot lens in a 3D Mag. I absolutely LOVE this thing. 

My next build is going to be with the XRE or the XPC though I dont know enough about the latter so im still reading on it. I was wondering if it will matter, throw wise, whether I put it in another mag host with another Melles lens or if I put it in a P60 host with Ahortons lens.


----------



## Fresh Light

...


----------



## gcbryan

mikesantor said:


> I have a question. I will admit that I diligently read through approx half of this thread then skimmed the rest. ADD kicked in and I was done for.
> 
> Any ways, what is the correlation to diameter of aspheric lens and throw in a aspheric set up?
> 
> Reason I ask is I built/had built my first aspheric a few months ago. Knowing full well what LEDs were the best for this I still went away from the grain and tried to get some higher lumens with the SST 90 with a melles griot lens in a 3D Mag. I absolutely LOVE this thing.
> 
> My next build is going to be with the XRE or the XPC though I dont know enough about the latter so im still reading on it. I was wondering if it will matter, throw wise, whether I put it in another mag host with another Melles lens or if I put it in a P60 host with Ahortons lens.



I don't know that a Melles lens is or the diameter of a 3D Mag head but the correlation to the diameter of an aspheric lens (or a reflector) to throw is a direct one. Double the diameter and you more or less double the throw.

Unless you have the kind of heatsinking abilities including the techniques used in the DEFT EDC you are going to want to use the XR-E as it can be driven much harder.


----------



## Fresh Light




----------



## mohanjude

Fresh Light said:


>


 Wow that Lambda Varapower Turbo DEFT is good... what cells are you running it?


----------



## Fresh Light

That is with 4 tenergy C cells.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

gcbryan said:


> There's absolute best and that can keep improving as Michael is doing. There is also practical best. Considering price and size and eyesight
> 
> I'm amazed at a light that recently came out. It's $14, it's the Smallsun ZY-C10-S. It's a C10 sized light. One 18650, using a XR-E R2 driven at 1A with a 40mm OD head and at least using my inexpensive light meter outside at 10 meters factored back to 1 meter I get 52kcd. The beam for an aspheric is pretty good as well. Better than any of my others.
> 
> I'm impressed by the Deereelight DBS-T with turbohead (approximately 52mm I think) and driven at 1.5A. I don't have it but have considered it. It's about $100 I think. It has an output of 90kcd. However that only out throws my smaller $14 light by 33%. At a point good enough and inexpensive enough does the job as well sometimes.
> 
> The workmanship on the $14 light is even impressive for that price range. There really isn't any practical use that I have for more throw than that light provides. I'm always interested in something that throws more just out of general interest but getting 52kcs out of a nice looking light that is $14 is appealing and it's hard to justify spending 6 times more for something that throws only marginally better.



So U are telling that this light is better than DEFT EDC? Tell us more... Lens diameter is around 35mm? And EZ1000 XR-E R2 driven at 1A current? 52klux/m throw? Man that is EXTREEME if you are correct?

That would be best thrower in a world only if U can put 1,5 amp EZ900 die inside... In fact it would throw exactly as DBS V3 EZ900...

Sorry I don't believe your numbers... It could have around 30-35k/lux throw...


Edit I google and watched on budgetlight forum... I saw some pictures, and yes this can throw, but it does not throw 52k/luxm...

It could throw around 40 k/lux or slightly more or less depending on lens lottery...

I had first gen of deerelight aspheric and old tiablo A9 aspheric and they throw better than this below(and they are around 55 klux/m)...

Small sun 3m throw




Small sun 10 meters





Also I can add that small sun has decent build quality for $ and probably excellent host for homemade flashlights section.


So friend risk 100$ and buy deerelight aspheric U won't be dissapointed it fries the wall on 10 meters ...That small sun would not be seen beeneth it when beam pointed together at that distance...

But I want to say if U R lucky with dbs U can get ultra clear lenses that will give around 10 000 lux more for sure... 

To bad that they are not all identical so u can gain 90-100 klux throw but not really big difference... Some of U will not notice that while I am noticing it...


----------



## mikesantor

gcbryan said:


> I don't know that a Melles lens is or the diameter of a 3D Mag head but the correlation to the diameter of an aspheric lens (or a reflector) to throw is a direct one. Double the diameter and you more or less double the throw.
> 
> Unless you have the kind of heatsinking abilities including the techniques used in the DEFT EDC you are going to want to use the XR-E as it can be driven much harder.



Thanks for all the clarifications. 

From what i researched, the melles lens are very high quality lenses (ans damn expensive).

So for simplicity's sake, i guess i will go with another 3D mag and the xr-e. 

Thanks again for the help. 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


----------



## Ptery83

I received the DBS V3 Flashlight (reflector) yesterday with an extension tube and also an aspheric head to be able to switch back and forth. The light worked great out of the package but when I swapped the pill to the aspheric head I could not get power. I later learned that it was b/c I didn't use the spring provided for the aspheric head. While troubleshooting I put the pill back in the reflector head and it powered up fine but then the lens dome covering the led just fell off. Looking at the dome lens (not sure what this is called) it has a rough appearance from where it separated from the emitter. Alan from Dereelight says it should still work fine this way. I'm a flashlight noob, obviously, so any suggestions on using the bare emitter or how that happened? There was no physical damage and I was running 2 cr123 surefire cells in the correct orientation. Thx.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Ptery83 said:


> I received the DBS V3 Flashlight (reflector) yesterday with an extension tube and also an aspheric head to be able to switch back and forth. The light worked great out of the package but when I swapped the pill to the aspheric head I could not get power. I later learned that it was b/c I didn't use the spring provided for the aspheric head. While troubleshooting I put the pill back in the reflector head and it powered up fine but then the lens dome covering the led just fell off. Looking at the dome lens (not sure what this is called) it has a rough appearance from where it separated from the emitter. Alan from Dereelight says it should still work fine this way. I'm a flashlight noob, obviously, so any suggestions on using the bare emitter or how that happened? There was no physical damage and I was running 2 cr123 surefire cells in the correct orientation. Thx.



Here we go again... Watch this:
Did U read this? If U have any problem with your DBS read my post

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...hrowers/page12

Post 6


----------



## Ptery83

Yeah Tat I read that a while back and I have oiled the threads and been very careful tightening every piece. My problem is not with the threads but with the lens covering the emitter coming off....


----------



## Rikr

Wow!!! I want one of those VPT/DEFT lights....That is AWESOME!!!


----------



## Fresh Light

I've gotta say, though, that I prefer the DEFT the way it came from Saab and the VPT the way it came from Lambda. That pic was done w/o using the 2nd optic in the DEFT. I messed with that a little but it'd take some tuning to get it perfect.
Now if the two were ever to collaborate on a project it would be something special. Lambda's got amazing skill with in-house machining and use of huge 6+ oz Cu heatsinks he direct mounts the LEDs to, so no star, not to mention he does his own printed circuits and perfecting the variable control to get the upper limits on pushing the LEDs. Saab couldn't get a reasonable price on or couldn't find the lenses he wanted, so what does he do? He made his own. Not to mention all his work with R&D that is years ahead of anybody else is doing. Not to mention his work with making Carbon Fibre parts and using Beryllium springs and other really cool stuff. Yeah, a 2C VP running a Saab modified LED light system would be about as good as it would get. But, for now a VP SST90-DEFT running at[FONT=verdana, sans-serif] 13.84 Amps is kinda cool. [/FONT]


----------



## gcbryan

According to Saab in the DEFT EDC he uses Ahortons stock lens.


----------



## gcbryan

Tatjanamagic said:


> So U are telling that this light is better than DEFT EDC? Tell us more... Lens diameter is around 35mm? And EZ1000 XR-E R2 driven at 1A current? 52klux/m throw? Man that is EXTREEME if you are correct?
> 
> That would be best thrower in a world only if U can put 1,5 amp EZ900 die inside... In fact it would throw exactly as DBS V3 EZ900...
> 
> Sorry I don't believe your numbers... It could have around 30-35k/lux throw...
> 
> 
> Edit I google and watched on budgetlight forum... I saw some pictures, and yes this can throw, but it does not throw 52k/luxm...
> 
> It could throw around 40 k/lux or slightly more or less depending on lens lottery...
> 
> I had first gen of deerelight aspheric and old tiablo A9 aspheric and they throw better than this below(and they are around 55 klux/m)...
> 
> Small sun 3m throw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Small sun 10 meters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also I can add that small sun has decent build quality for $ and probably excellent host for homemade flashlights section.
> 
> 
> So friend risk 100$ and buy deerelight aspheric U won't be dissapointed it fries the wall on 10 meters ...That small sun would not be seen beeneth it when beam pointed together at that distance...
> 
> But I want to say if U R lucky with dbs U can get ultra clear lenses that will give around 10 000 lux more for sure...
> 
> To bad that they are not all identical so u can gain 90-100 klux throw but not really big difference... Some of U will not notice that while I am noticing it...



I'm not telling you anything regarding comparing it to the DEFT EDC. The lens in the Smallsun is 25% bigger than in the DEFT EDC.

I also don't have a calibrated light meter so all I can do is tell you what it reads and compare how accurate it might be by other lights I've measured and others have measured as well.

When I've tested my Uniquefire HS-802 which is driven at about 1A I've gotten 33kcd which is about what many others have gotten as well. We know that an aspheric of the same size as a reflector will throw much further. We also know that the HS-802 is basically a C10 size as is the Smallsun. Therefore it should throw further than the 30-35kcd that you have suggested. Nothing "EXTREME" there.

I also have an aspheric that I put in a light that is more or less P60 size but just a bit bigger and with a screw-in pill so the effective aspheric is about 30 mm and this is driven at about .83A with a freshly charged 18650. This light has already measured about 23kcd and did so again tonight as I measured this and the Smallsun again at 10m.

Therefore I have every reason to think that my meter is fairly consistent and is reading in line on other lights with the readings that others on here have gotten as well.

Also keep in mind that my readings are with freshly charged batteries and I'm not allowing them to run for 3 - 5 minutes or any real world useful burn-in time. I'm sure I wouldn't get these numbers after 3-5 minutes. They are what they are.

They are good enough for short periods of time however (which is how I generally use a light like this) for me to hesitate regarding ordering a $100 light that may only throw 33% further. In a contest that wins and is a good number but in the real world it doesn't impress me as much as the numbers I'm getting from the Smallsun considering the price and other factors.

Is it actually 47kcd rather than 52kcd...who knows? It's definitely $14 vs $100 however and it's definitely a bit smaller so all in all pretty impressive.

With great heatsinking running it at 1.5A would eke out a bit more output. Without great heatsinking it would probably have an adverse affect so for something less than the DEFT EDC in headsinking characteristics I think 1A is optimal. Any gains from output from overdriving have to be squared before the throw is increased so that's not really a major factor all things considered IMO.

So to recap the DBS has an optic that is 37% larger and costs about 600 percent more and throws about 33% more...and I still wouldn't mind having one!


----------



## saabluster

RBH said:


> I posted this on 1-7-2012. Didn't get a single reply.
> 
> Bruce
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-in-throwers&p=3840925&highlight=#post3840925



Sorry about that. I honestly didn't see it. Part of the problem is that those who would know are currently in business and you are essentially asking them to show their cards. Not so sure that is a good idea for most businesses. Of course the other issue is that there really isn't anyone that I know of putting significant R+D into throw technologies. How many companies other than mine do you see trying to actually redesign the components themselves. That is really where future advancement will be seen. I'll give you a little bit of insight into where things _can_ go. 

There is a roughly 70% improvement in performance that can be made with current optical(non-LED) and thermal solutions. A further 95% can be achieved via LED package improvements. This is assuming no advancement in LED die tech going forward. I've tried to simplify it as much as possible for you as there are *many* factors at play in all this that affect those numbers up or down. Beyond what is covered in those numbers are what I see as two major leaps forward that could happen in the throw world. They currently reside in labs only. One is laser based and the other is LED based. That is all I will say about that. Hope that helps answer at least some of your questions.


----------



## saabluster

gcbryan said:


> I'm not telling you anything regarding comparing it to the DEFT EDC. The lens in the Smallsun is 25% bigger than in the DEFT EDC.
> 
> I also don't have a calibrated light meter so all I can do is tell you what it reads and compare how accurate it might be by other lights I've measured and others have measured as well.
> 
> When I've tested my Uniquefire HS-802 which is driven at about 1A I've gotten 33kcd which is about what many others have gotten as well. We know that an aspheric of the same size as a reflector will throw much further. We also know that the HS-802 is basically a C10 size as is the Smallsun. Therefore it should throw further than the 30-35kcd that you have suggested. Nothing "EXTREME" there.
> 
> I also have an aspheric that I put in a light that is more or less P60 size but just a bit bigger and with a screw-in pill so the effective aspheric is about 30 mm and this is driven at about .83A with a freshly charged 18650. This light has already measured about 23kcd and did so again tonight as I measured this and the Smallsun again at 10m.
> 
> Therefore I have every reason to think that my meter is fairly consistent and is reading in line on other lights with the readings that others on here have gotten as well.
> 
> Also keep in mind that my readings are with freshly charged batteries and I'm not allowing then to run for 3 - 5 minutes or any real world useful burn in time. I'm sure I wouldn't get these numbers after 3-5 minutes. They are what they are.
> 
> They are good enough for short periods of time however (which is how I generally use a light like this) for me to hesitate regarding ordering a $100 light that may only throw 33% further. In a contest that wins and is a good number but in the real world it doesn't impress me as much as the numbers I'm getting from the Smallsun considering the price and other factors.
> 
> Is it actually 47kcd rather than 52kcd...who knows? It's definitely $14 vs $100 however and it's definitely a bit smaller so all in all pretty impressive.
> 
> With great heatsinking running it at 1.5A would eke out a bit more output. Without great heatsinking it would probably have an adverse affect so for something less than the DEFT EDC in headsinking characteristics I think 1A is optimal. Any gains from output from overdriving have to be squared before the throw is increased so that's not really a major factor all things considered IMO.


Your numbers for that light sound right to me given its size. I ordered one last week just to take a look and see what it does. I'll report back my findings.


----------



## gcbryan

Thanks Saab. I'd be interested to hear more measurements on that light just to get more of a consensus. I've never been a big fan of zoom lights (and still am not) however just from first glance it's not at all apparent that this light is a zoom light. It's also not apparent at all that it only costs $14.

The zooming mechanism is still a sliding one but it's very firm (in a good way) and it stays where you put it. I ordered it only to check it out as a thrower since most (all) inexpensive aspherics seem to be of the zoom rather than fixed variety.

Mine doesn't even have the printed zoom "instructions" on the body that many do. However I hear that some of the ones being shipped now do have that diagram.

I should mention that actually the light meter numbers I got tonight at 10m were even a little higher than last time. It was raining outside so I didn't have time to be more through.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Ptery83 said:


> My problem is not with the threads but with the lens covering the emitter coming off....



I don't get it? Aspherical lens are above emitter on this light and tighten firmly... Emitter is in its aluminum housing?

So emitter is falling out of housing... Try explain on other way I don't get it...

But small 1mm lens is on emitter... Do U talk about that? If so... That is serious issue that needs emitter replacement...


----------



## gcbryan

Tatjanamagic said:


> I don't get it? Aspherical lens are above emitter on this light and tighten firmly... Emitter is in its aluminum housing?
> 
> So emitter is falling out of housing... Try explain on other way I don't get it...
> 
> But small 1mm lens is on emitter... Do U talk about that? If so... That is serious issue that needs emitter replacement...



Yes, that is what he is talking about. The emitter was "de-domed".


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Gcbryan...

I think U don't know what are U missing... But ok than rather buy 5 budgets for that money ... To me klux,kcd and other numbers are not telling much...

My friends and I test thrower lights over rifle scope, and most important thing is what U can see in at certain distances not lux numbers... Reflectors spoil night vision while aspheric not. So in a dark U can see further with aspheric than with reflector although some of them has higher kcd numbers... (I am talking about led throwers)

One example of 2 excellent aspherics:
With 55kcd Tiabo A9 U see target clearly at 300 meters, and with DBS U see same stuff at 500 meters... I find that great improvement...


Olight SR90 have greater kcd numbers than DBS aspheric and dbs out throws it...

In fact we did not have led light so far that can out throw it(old deft could do it), and we tried almost every brand and cheap led throwers...


----------



## gcbryan

Tatjanamagic said:


> Gcbryan...
> 
> I think U don't know what are U missing... But ok than rather buy 5 budgets for that money ... To me klux,kcd and other numbers are not telling much...
> 
> My friends and I test thrower lights over rifle scope, and most important thing is what U can see in at certain distances not lux numbers... Reflectors spoil night vision while aspheric not. So in a dark U can see further with aspheric than with reflector although some of them has higher kcd numbers... (I am talking about led throwers)
> 
> One example of 2 excellent aspherics:
> With 55kcd Tiabo A9 U see target clearly at 300 meters, and with DBS U see same stuff at 500 meters... I find that great improvement...
> 
> 
> Olight SR90 have greater kcd numbers than DBS aspheric and dbs out throws it...
> 
> In fact we did not have led light so far that can out throw it(old deft could do it), and we tried almost every brand and cheap led throwers...



I agree that aspherics are better for spotting which is why I prefer throwers that use aspherics. I don't like or use my HS-802. The Smallsun I'm referring to however is an aspheric.

Throw is throw so kcd (which is just a measurement) does determine throw but as I said I agree that the spill inherent with reflectors reduces contrast and creates backscatter making it harder for your eye to spot what you are looking for.

That's why I too prefer an aspheric. As mentioned however the Smallsun only throws 33% less than the DBS. Both are aspherics so no differences there. The Smallsun throws as far as I need it to so going a little further doesn't really do that much more for me.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

It really makes big difference(from lets say tiablo a9 aspheric or old 1,2ez1000 driver) when used on scope and spotting game on larger distances...

And I want to tell U that with 1,5 amp driver and ez 900 that u can easily order and re solder on your small sun you would gain around 80kcd for sure... Just need some longer wires and epoxy...


----------



## nzlux

Hi everyone, I ordered myself a Dereelight dbs-t aspheric with the 1.5a pill & battery extension tube a few days ago due to the info I have read on this forum. Cant wait till it gets here! I have also ordered 4 x protected panasonic NCR18650A batteries(also due to things i have read here on the forums)..though i think they are going to take several weeks to get here. So in the mean time I will have to buy some cheap ultrafire batteries locally.

I will be mounting the torch on a rifle for exterminating varmints at night. My friend will make me a custom mount on his CNC mill. Cant wait


----------



## gcbryan

nzlux said:


> Hi everyone, I ordered myself a Dereelight dbs-t aspheric with the 1.5a pill & battery extension tube a few days ago due to the info I have read on this forum. Cant wait till it gets here! I have also ordered 4 x protected panasonic NCR18650A batteries(also due to things i have read here on the forums)..though i think they are going to take several weeks to get here. So in the mean time I will have to buy some cheap ultrafire batteries locally.
> 
> I will be mounting the torch on a rifle for exterminating varmints at night. My friend will make me a custom mount on his CNC mill. Cant wait



Be sure to report back!

You can also use (2) 18350 without an extension tube or (2) 18500 with the smaller extension tube.


----------



## angelofwar

M4, M6, M3LT, Rayovac Outdoors 3C to name a few...The M4 will out-throw a lot, even my M6...even if just because Incan appears/seems to reflect off more than LED.


----------



## jh333233

Any opinion on T20CS?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

nzlux said:


> Hi everyone, I ordered myself a Dereelight dbs-t aspheric with the 1.5a pill & battery extension tube a few days ago due to the info I have read on this forum. Cant wait till it gets here! I have also ordered 4 x protected panasonic NCR18650A batteries(also due to things i have read here on the forums)..though i think they are going to take several weeks to get here. So in the mean time I will have to buy some cheap ultrafire batteries locally.
> 
> I will be mounting the torch on a rifle for exterminating varmints at night. My friend will make me a custom mount on his CNC mill. Cant wait



Mr. Nzlux varmint exterminator ...

Please let us know how varmints react on aspheric...


----------



## cummins4x4

nzlux, we need pics of the mount.


----------



## varmint

2010 spring and summer. Mostly with old Surefire 951 on AR15.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Mr. Varmint

I don't want to comment to much because there are plenty of people here but I am hunter also so U know what I am thinking

I used all kinds of reflector lights for game hunting before aspheric and I can claim that aspheric is the very best for hunting. 

No flood or spill only pure hotspot which does not spooks some kind of game at all whille for hogs for example U have much more time to do what U have to do.

Please try that...


----------



## varmint

The asperic is a night hunter's dream come true, I would try a remote switch if I had one. That setup would be hard to beat.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

varmint said:


> The asperic is a night hunter's dream come true, I would try a remote switch if I had one. That setup would be hard to beat.



Yeah... Remote switch is good because it does not have click sound(well it have some)... But I am only using it rarely and only if I have "on scope" flashlight configuration...

I prefer barrel mounted flashlight and single stage switch(left arm beneath the stock - gentle pressure to switch, when target spotted full click of switch for lock on)... 


Little of topic... But I will add some...

When we talk about dedicated throwers did U knew for laser flashlights(or designators)? Well Laser genetics has ND3 & ND5 laser flashlight so I am just wondering if some of U guys tried that and your opinion...


----------



## varmint

No one I know has tried that, I am the old fashioned type of hunter still using casette tape sounds, speaker on a wire with incan spotlights. We use a large spotlight for a locater with red lens, then use the rifle light for the rest, I have an old SF model that I am upgrading to LED when it ever gets here from Asia, probably 2-3 more weeks I hope.
I used to have an aircraft landing light bulb and it was unreal at night. I am out every night almost 7 days a week here and usually take my light,rifle & call.
The lights I have now are much superior to anything I have ever had.


----------



## psychbeat

Man... I'm thinking it would be cheaper to get one of those "Smallsun" lights than upgrading my 1.5a ez900 Ahorton...

Anyone wanna recommend a vendor?


----------



## troelskc

Here we go. A pill comparison in the Dereelight DBS Aspherical. I bought Vin's 1.8A EZ900 to get higher lux. (mistyped Vin vs. Saabin the gif).

@ 5m
f/2.5, 1/15 s, iso 100 





My conclusion is that the 1.5A is smaller and brighter than the 1.8A. Any ideas why? I screwed the pills in all the way in, and focused the projection the best I could.


----------



## GulfCoastToad

We do a lot of night hunting south of San Antonio, TX. I am finding it best to have one light hand-held for spotting eyes of predators and herds of hogs (their eyes don't have tapetum lucidum), and another light mounted on the gun. Saabluster's DEFT edc-LR allows me to literally see as far as my natural vision will allow, meaning the only limiting factor is my eyesight. Even using a decent pair of binocs, the edc-LR seems to go on forever.

Varmint, I looked up Cash, TX. Sounds like a cool community.


----------



## JustG

jh333233 said:


> Any opinion on T20CS?



I'm curious what people's thoughts are on that light too.

Right now it's a toss up for me between the Thrunite TN11 or the Sunwayman.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

rikr on here has the Sunwayman T20CS and he loves it.


----------



## fortean101

troelskc said:


> Here we go. A pill comparison in the Dereelight DBS Aspherical. I bought Saablusters 1.8A EZ900 to get higher lux.
> 
> @ 5m
> f/2.5, 1/15 s, iso 100
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My conclusion is that the 1.5A is smaller and brighter than the 1.8A. Any ideas why? I screwed the pills in all the way in, and focused the projection the best I could.




I believe the drop in you mentioned is made by vin not saabluster?


----------



## troelskc

Thanks fortean. It's now been corrected.

I did by the way discover the die is slightly larger on Vin's 1.8A EZ900. Kinda disappointed about this, thought it would be the same size.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Troelskc U did not set aspheric properly!!! 


Yellowish corona around die should not be visible...

Set it up this way... Stand 7 to 10 meters to wall and set it up that yellow corona around die is hardly or non visible, and then U will gain better and brighter throw...


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

The vin 1.8amp pill is not ez900, it is ez1000.


----------



## troelskc

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> The vin 1.8amp pill is not ez900, it is ez1000.



Aaah that makes sense. I'll try to set it up correctly.

Does anyone make a EZ900 that is run higher than 1.5A?


----------



## Blitzwing

GulfCoastToad said:


> We do a lot of night hunting south of San Antonio, TX. I am finding it best to have one light hand-held for spotting eyes of predators and herds of hogs (their eyes don't have tapetum lucidum), and another light mounted on the gun.



That's how do it with the foxes. Regular Solarforce L2 on a lanyard around my neck with a single mode XR-E and SMO, and a thrower mounted on the rifle. I have a couple to choose from.


----------



## roadkill1109

Tiablo A60G anyone?


----------



## jh333233

Any thoughts on M21X vs T20CS?
Ive got my t20cs but ive been wondering about the lux

M21X has 600lm and throws 240m with 14.4k lux
T20CS has 658lm and throws 272m with unknown lux
I assume T20CS is brighter than M21X in terms of lux?
Also i wonder what is the reflector diameter for M21X, t20cs is 1.15 inches

My thought about T20cs
Better UI than tn11, at least tailcap will not mess with modes
Side button is good
Impressive output with turbo mode
Lacks some throw, still. I expected a even tighter hotspot, the hotspot now is only as big as my chinese xp-g p60


----------



## BLUE LED

roadkill1109 said:


> Tiablo A60G anyone?



I went for the Crelant 7G5 V2 instead. They are both made by Tiablo, but I think the Crelant will throw more. 

I tried out my aspheric Dereelight EZ900 at the CPF meet and its impressive.


----------



## PapaLumen

BLUE LED said:


> I went for the Crelant 7G5 V2 instead. They are both made by Tiablo, buy I think the Crelant will throw more.
> 
> I tried out my aspheric Dereelight EZ900 at the CPF meet and its impressive.



Where can you get the 7G5 V2? Thanks.


----------



## betweenrides

PapaLumen said:


> Where can you get the 7G5 V2? Thanks.



Google with Crelant 7G5 v2


----------



## BLUE LED

I bought the Crelant 7G5 V2 from Hank at International Outdoor.


----------



## gcbryan

jh333233 said:


> Any thoughts on M21X vs T20CS?
> Ive got my t20cs but ive been wondering about the lux
> 
> M21X has 600lm and throws 240m with 14.4k lux
> T20CS has 658lm and throws 272m with unknown lux
> I assume T20CS is brighter than M21X in terms of lux?
> Also i wonder what is the reflector diameter for M21X, t20cs is 1.15 inches
> 
> My thought about T20cs
> Better UI than tn11, at least tailcap will not mess with modes
> Side button is good
> Impressive output with turbo mode
> Lacks some throw, still. I expected a even tighter hotspot, the hotspot now is only as big as my chinese xp-g p60



The T20CS should be about 18.5k lux.
The bezel diameter for the M21X is 1.6 inches.


----------



## jh333233

ohh, thanks, now i know SWM is having their effective range marked @0.25lux


----------



## luceat lux vestra

Hi all,
I was wondering what the out the front lumens are for the Dereelight DBS v3 XR-E R2 e9000 1sm ?:naughty:I have read most of this thread and did not see it anywhere. Thanx


----------



## saabluster

luceat lux vestra said:


> Hi all,
> I was wondering what the out the front lumens are for the Dereelight DBS v3 XR-E R2 e9000 1sm ?:naughty:I have read most of this thread and did not see it anywhere. Thanx


That is because it doesn't matter. The lumen rating is not terribly important when it comes to dedicated throwers. Focus instead on the lux numbers.


----------



## cccpull

luceat lux vestra said:


> Hi all,
> I was wondering what the out the front lumens are for the Dereelight DBS v3 XR-E R2 e9000 1sm ?:naughty:I have read most of this thread and did not see it anywhere. Thanx



From Flashlightconnection, "Cree XR-E R2 LED driven at 1.5 amps! Delivers 250+ out the front highly focused lumens".


----------



## Tatjanamagic

As Saabluster said lumens does not mean nothing when it comes to throw...

I would say that "Lumens" are people who think that higher lumen readings means more throw for led flashlight...

That why people stays glued to monitor when watching some Chinese ebay sellers selling some cheap orange peel reflector flashlight claiming 2000 lumens 2000 meter throw  And you say wow! And just 20$... Wow... Must buy this... And when it comes home it can really throw 80 meters:

Recipe is very simple in led thrower world and it goes something like this:
- Bigger and well balanced smooth reflector for reflector throwers.
- Bigger and excellent focal balanced aspherical lenses for aspherical throwers.
- The highest surface brightest emitter on the market.


----------



## varmint

To answer your question on the Derrelight about 275-300 Lumens I was told. I just got in the house with mine from checking livestock. Tonight is a good one dark and lots of dense air tonight, it really shows up well. I just checked my cells 2x18350 and had 4.07 volts in one and 4.06 in the other after 10 days of nightly use.


----------



## saabluster

cccpull said:


> From Flashlightconnection, "Cree XR-E R2 LED driven at 1.5 amps! Delivers 250+ out the front highly focused lumens".





varmint said:


> To answer your question on the Derrelight about 275-300 Lumens I was told. I just got in the house with mine from checking livestock. Tonight is a good one dark and lots of dense air tonight, it really shows up well. I just checked my cells 2x18350 and had 4.07 volts in one and 4.06 in the other after 10 days of nightly use.



I highly doubt either one of those are correct OTF lumen figures. I take that back. I *know* that is not true when combined with the aspheric. I guess maybe 170-180 OTF lumens. Although I can find out I don't care enough to do it because like I said throw is not about lumens. We need people to stop thinking about a flashlight's power solely in terms of lumens.


----------



## varmint

saabluster said:


> I highly doubt either one of those are correct OTF lumen figures. I take that back. I *know* that is not true when combined with the aspheric. I guess maybe 170-180 OTF lumens. Although I can find out I don't care enough to do it because like I said throw is not about lumens. We need people to stop thinking about a flashlight's power solely in terms of lumens.


I completely agree with you on that, I just got back inside again with it, the dog was barking and I lit up a coyote on the bank of my 1st pond with the Derrelight at about 350 yds or slightly more, my TN11 picked up the eyes well but did not show the body as the DL did.

SAA you are close to me in Garland, I am just south of Greenville


----------



## saabluster

varmint said:


> I completely agree with you on that, I just got back inside again with it, the dog was barking and I lit up a coyote on the bank of my 1st pond with the Derrelight at about 350 yds or slightly more, my TN11 picked up the eyes well but did not show the body as the DL did.
> 
> SAA you are close to me in Garland, I am just south of Greenville



Sure enough. My nav says we are 41.8 miles apart. We are overdue for a North Texas GTG. :naughty:


----------



## gcbryan

You would think that people would get it by now but they still seem to think that a XM-L must be better for throw if only the reflector was "optimized" for the XM-L!

The other thing most people don't seem to realize however is the large jump in output (lux) required for a significant improvement in throw. Since the output is reduced by the square root it takes large increases in output to make a large different in actual throw.


----------



## saabluster

gcbryan said:


> The other thing most people don't seem to realize however is the large jump in output (lux) required for a significant improvement in throw. Since the output is reduced by the square root it takes large increases in output to make a large different in actual throw.



True, but at least with an increase in lux it actually _does_ increase throw *every* time. The two are inextricably linked. Lumens and lux are not. And while I agree with you that it does take large increases to have a medium sized effect one must not become trapped by the thinking that this could lead to. Namely being satisfied with "good enough". Why push for that extra 10% when the human eye may not perceive it?. That thinking could lead you to not push the boundaries for every percentage of lux that can possibly be extracted. Sure one small leap in technology may not mean much but when you push hard on all fronts you would be amazed at what can be achieved. Do this day in and day out and before you know it you are far far from where you started. I'm passionate about this because it is central to what I do.


----------



## gcbryan

No argument there


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Saabluster is new flashlight on a way?


----------



## luceat lux vestra

Tatjanamagic said:


> As Saabluster said lumens does not mean nothing when it comes to throw...
> 
> I would say that "Lumens" are people who think that higher lumen readings means more throw for led flashlight...
> 
> That why people stays glued to monitor when watching some Chinese ebay sellers selling some cheap orange peel reflector flashlight claiming 2000 lumens 2000 meter throw  And you say wow! And just 20$... Wow... Must buy this... And when it comes home it can really throw 80 meters:
> 
> Recipe is very simple in led thrower world and it goes something like this:
> - Bigger and well balanced smooth reflector for reflector throwers.
> - Bigger and excellent focal balanced aspherical lenses for aspherical throwers.
> - The highest surface brightest emitter on the market.


Thanks guys for all the good answers! I am not to surprised by 170-250, because I have seen it over and over again the right beam will out through a light 4 or 5 times the lumens, [HIDs not included.] I have a light that has a XP-C [at least I think it does] out put can't be over 50 lumens, but because of the optic it will throw about 70 or 80 yards! Thanks again, kind of..............Now I NEED another light:shakehead
Awesome thread by the way!!


----------



## Fresh Light

I noticed HID Country has the newer Light Recycling light from Waiven that they are claiming can light up a target at 1500 yards. It also is saying 1000 Lumen which pretty much spells out it is an XML or SST50 and not a better throwing XP-whatever . Out of stock till then end of the month. Not seen anything about this.


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> Saabluster is new flashlight on a way?


Well of course there is! There always is.  It is not the one I was working on earlier in this thread however. 



Fresh Light said:


> I noticed HID Country has the newer Light Recycling light from Waiven that they are claiming can light up a target at 1500 yards. It also is saying 1000 Lumen which pretty much spells out it is an XML or SST50 and not a better throwing XP-whatever . Out of stock till then end of the month. Not seen anything about this.


Good catch!!! Hopefully they get more in because I want to check their claims to being the longest throwing light in the world. I for one don't believe it for a second even if it does have the collar.


----------



## Fresh Light

saabluster said:


> Well of course there is! There always is.  It is not the one I was working on earlier in this thread however.
> 
> 
> Good catch!!! Hopefully they get more in because I want to check their claims to being the longest throwing light in the world. I for one don't believe it for a second even if it does have the collar.



I wasn't even going to comment on their claim because it had said longest throwing light _available_, thinking you didn't have any EDC's in stock till I had just checked. Yep, your website says you've got several of both flavors. Carry on, should be interesting to see the results. I'm also interested to see indeed what LED they are using. XML is cheaper, but it is possible to drive the sst50 at higher currents when it's directly bonded to Cu on a phat heat sink. That and I think Waiven has a thing with only using the Luminous LEDs from what i've seen.


----------



## saabluster

Fresh Light said:


> I wasn't even going to comment on their claim because it had said longest throwing light _available_, thinking you didn't have any EDC's in stock till I had just checked. Yep, your website says you've got several of both flavors. Carry on, should be interesting to see the results. I'm also interested to see indeed what LED they are using. XML is cheaper, but it is possible to drive the sst50 at higher currents when it's directly bonded to Cu on a phat heat sink. That and I think Waiven has a thing with only using the Luminous LEDs from what i've seen.



Well my current offering is not the longest throwing flashlight in the world. It is the longest throwing light for it's size by far but it still falls short of my earlier, but much larger, DEFT. That one still holds the production world record. I believe the longest throwing light currently on the market is the SR90 but is about to be Surefire's UDR Dominator @165K lux. I do believe the LED in the Wavien light is an XM-L.


----------



## bigchelis

Well,
Im hope to make a visit to DarkSucks Lathe/CNC Machine Shop where he have a Sphere for testing OTF lumens.

I will take my Dereelight DBS and test with Aspheric. I guess 100 Lumens or less OTF.
Then I will put it in a 6P type hosts and I bet it will be 200~250 OTF lumens via SMO reflector.

Will update you all on Sunday if it goes down!

bigC


----------



## luceat lux vestra

bigchelis said:


> Well,
> Im hope to make a visit to DarkSucks Lathe/CNC Machine Shop where he have a Sphere for testing OTF lumens.
> 
> I will take my Dereelight DBS and test with Aspheric. I guess 100 Lumens or less OTF.
> Then I will put it in a 6P type hosts and I bet it will be 200~250 OTF lumens via SMO reflector.
> 
> Will update you all on Sunday if it goes down!
> 
> bigC


You guys are killing me with the undecided OTF rating of the DBS, first I see on Dereelight.com that its 300 lumens then its 250 after that it went down to 170, now I hear less than 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't under stand how a light that some people say beats a SR90 only outputs 100 lumens![I know that LUX is everything] It takes 1.5A off the batteries you lose 20% due to driver inefficiency now you have 1.2, a XP-G R2 getting 1.2 amps is outputting 418 approximate emitter lumens, a XR-E has to be at least close to that. Will be very interesting to see!!


----------



## bigchelis

luceat lux vestra said:


> You guys are killing me with the undecided OTF rating of the DBS, first I see on Dereelight.com that its 300 lumens then its 250 after that it went down to 170, now I hear less than 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't under stand how a light that some people say beats a SR90 only outputs 100 lumens![I know that LUX is everything] It takes 1.5A off the batteries you lose 20% due to driver inefficiency now you have 1.2, a XP-G R2 getting 1.2 amps is outputting 418 approximate emitter lumens, a XR-E has to be at least close to that. Will be very interesting to see!!



Manufacture ratings are always generous unless its Malkoff, Surefire, and DarkSucks, and even McGizmos are honest.

More than just driver efficiency at play, which explains why might explain why the 2 sample SR90 I had both did 1480ish OTF, but 1250ish nominally, yet both were at over 98K lux.

Some other items are:
-AR Coated lens
-Resistance
-Crenelated bezel
-Aspheric lens with long focal lengh = This is what Dereelight DBS IMHO has.
-Aspheric lens with short focal lengh = This is what the DEFT P60 types use.
-Cell quality. Lower quality will sag more under load and that will affect lumens
-Thermal path
-type of wires used, 10g vs. 24g
-copper heatsink, brass heatsink, aluminum heatsink

Probably more but those are off the top of my head.


----------



## varmint

I asked the same question about mine and was told by email about 200-250lumens. I also am curious at to what it is.
Thanks


----------



## gcbryan

luceat lux vestra said:


> You guys are killing me with the undecided OTF rating of the DBS, first I see on Dereelight.com that its 300 lumens then its 250 after that it went down to 170, now I hear less than 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't under stand how a light that some people say beats a SR90 only outputs 100 lumens![I know that LUX is everything] It takes 1.5A off the batteries you lose 20% due to driver inefficiency now you have 1.2, a XP-G R2 getting 1.2 amps is outputting 418 approximate emitter lumens, a XR-E has to be at least close to that. Will be very interesting to see!!



I haven't checked the Deree website but are you looking at lumen number for the DBS with reflector and comparing it to that same light with the aspheric head. You lose lumens that way.

Regarding lumens vs lux it's not that hard to picture (although a little counter-intuitive I know) to consider that a lower lumen light can concentrate more light into a tight spot than a larger one potentially which is the case here.

Shine a XM-L light on the wall and then shine whatever XR-E you can around on that same wall and more than likely you will see that the center of the hotspot of the XR-E is brighter than with the XM-L. 

That's where the throw is going from.


----------



## TEEJ

luceat lux vestra said:


> You guys are killing me with the undecided OTF rating of the DBS, first I see on Dereelight.com that its 300 lumens then its 250 after that it went down to 170, now I hear less than 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't under stand how a light that some people say beats a SR90 only outputs 100 lumens![I know that LUX is everything] It takes 1.5A off the batteries you lose 20% due to driver inefficiency now you have 1.2, a XP-G R2 getting 1.2 amps is outputting 418 approximate emitter lumens, a XR-E has to be at least close to that. Will be very interesting to see!!




It all comes down to how concentrated the beam is.

If I have a garden hose, and its pumping out 5 gallons per minute through a 1" diameter hose opening, the water might shoot 2' feet out, and then fall onto the ground and make a broad puddle.

If I put my thumb mostly over that 1" opening, leaving only a teeny hole, the water might squirt 30'...a LOT further......

In one case, the gallons per minute was spread over a wide area....in the second case, the same water had to fit through a teeny hole.


If the water ran for one minute, that would be 5 gallons. If I pretended the water was clay, I would have a 1" thick dowel shaped piece of clay that had a volume of 5 gallons.


If I made the hole to squirt it through 1 mm instead of 1"....I'd have a 1 mm thick dowel shaped piece of clay with a volume of 5 gallons.


Its like I took the 1" thick clay, and rolled it out until it was only 1 mm thick.

How much LONGER would the 1 mm clay be than the 1" thick clay?


That extra length is the THROW you get when you squirt the light through a smaller hole...so very little spill or corona losses, essentially all hot spot....your clay is rolled as thin and long as you can get it.


----------



## jh333233

bigchelis said:


> Probably more but those are off the top of my head.


Emitter chosen (Surface brightness issue)


----------



## Tatjanamagic

LOL

It is really not so important how many lumens dbs have. But it really have over 200 lumens in reflector configuration and about 100 lumens in aspherical mode, and U don't have to be expert to conclude that... U have your eyes...

So Surfire UDR Dominator with 164k/lux meter should be awesome... Anybody tested this?


----------



## jh333233

Tatjanamagic said:


> So Surfire UDR Dominator with 164k/lux meter should be awesome... *Anybody tested this?*


No light is out yet


----------



## luceat lux vestra

Thanks everybody for being very helpful to a noob when it com to throw lights:shakehead
And I have another question. If you could increase emitter lumens all else being the same you would increase your throw.
So my question is why are there no XM-L aspheric throwers? Just get a bigger lens?  is the surface brightness less with a XM-L ? [at max]
Just wondering


----------



## psychbeat

I just ordered 2 of the small suns from manafont. One will be a gift and maybe I'll mod the other one. 

I don't have a meter to test but I can put it up against my Ahorton w ez900. 

Maybe a direct drive mod w a resistor so it's single mode and 1.8a or something. Idk. Maybe add a 7315 or two?


I'm pretty bad @soldering so it will be fun to have a cheap project light.


----------



## luceat lux vestra

I was looking at Dereelight's website and I noticed that they have their DBS V3 with a XP-E R4 and I was wondering if it would throw as well as the XR-E R2??


----------



## Burntrice

My DBS







:devil:


----------



## varmint

Burntrice that's what mine looked like and I love it, if you ever have the chance try it in a fog, I was shocked to say the least...


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well I think some are overexaggerating how far this Dereelight will actually throw. I got my other one, and so far I'm not impressed. I talked to another guy that said the exact same thing. I'll let you know more Monday nite after I get to see what it truly will do at 350yds.


----------



## varmint

Its 1800 feet to my 2nd gate from the road and my DL Asp will completely light it up with no problem.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

varmint said:


> Its 1800 feet to my 2nd gate from the road and my DL Asp will completely light it up with no problem.



Show me this in a picture zoomed in a little if you wish. I'd bet you are seeing just the relection off the gate sort of like a light will light up a reflector at a long distance with a beam of light but technically it won't light it up to where you would want to actually brag about in a photo to where it would impress someone.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Show me a actual picture not zoomed in of even 400yds like this one with Dereelight lighting up the object like this white barn. I'll show my point Monday nite. I may be wrong, but I don't think it will do much at this distance.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

I was going to hold off on posting this one at 200yds, but I'll show my point. Now granted it wasn't fully dark as you can tell if you look up over the woods, but the woods were almost completely dark. This was taken on the P(picture) setting on my camera with a focal of 4 and ISO of 100. Now to me I wouldn't want to brag on this performance. That's zoomed in on 9X.


----------



## Alex1234

it should be twice as bright as that. i believe yours is defective or something because thats not right. i can easly light up a white house at 2000 feet no problem. i would take a pic but my camrea sucks. i went down to a huge fair grounds where i have up to 3000 feet to work with and on green objects like trees max distance is about 1500 feet and white objects like a house is about 2500 feet but its so dim at that distance it woulld not be usable. usable distance is about 1500 to 2000 feet. with about a 1000 feet of trees. now i know this is not profe but that was my experence witht the light. its about twice as bright at 200 yards then my t40cs maybe a little more


----------



## varmint

At 200 yds mine is like a laser, you can follow the tunnel of light to the target, and the light is much brighter, do you have the ex900 pill?


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Jay from Flashlight Connection sent me this one. The first one I bought from Alan. I didn't want to have to wait so long going back thru Alan so I was told to give Jay a try. And I will say my first one wasn't no better in my opinion from what I seen using it in the short amount of time. 

Here's what Jay told me.

I went ahead and sent a new DBS-T M Aspherical (XR-E EZ900 1.5 amp) flashlight to you. This will give you single mode capability as well as a 3 mode sub-group. In essence, it'll act the same as the 3SM that you returned when the head is loosened 1/2 turn, and will be a single mode (High only) light when the head is snug. I sent an 18650 extension tube as well.


----------



## Alex1234

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Jay from Flashlight Connection sent me this one. The first one I bought from Alan. I didn't want to have to wait so long going back thru Alan so I was told to give Jay a try. And I will say my first one wasn't no better in my opinion from what I seen using it in the short amount of time.
> 
> Here's what Jay told me.
> 
> I went ahead and sent a new DBS-T M Aspherical (XR-E EZ900 1.5 amp) flashlight to you. This will give you single mode capability as well as a 3 mode sub-group. In essence, it'll act the same as the 3SM that you returned when the head is loosened 1/2 turn, and will be a single mode (High only) light when the head is snug. I sent an 18650 extension tube as well.


 does it out throw your crelant 7g5 if so by how much?


----------



## varmint

Hey Alex--- does yours seem brighter than the picture? Its either my eyes or mine is quite alot brighter, mine has virtually no spill light at all. Except for the throw mine is not suited for much else, but it sure does spot cattle at night very well.


----------



## alohasurftoad

regarding the apsherical...is it focused? i don't have one myself but have read that you have to focus the light until it a defined square at distance.


----------



## Alex1234

varmint said:


> Hey Alex--- does yours seem brighter than the picture? Its either my eyes or mine is quite alot brighter, mine has virtually no spill light at all. Except for the throw mine is not suited for much else, but it sure does spot cattle at night very well.


. It's kinda hard to tell how bright a light is in a picture compared to in person. That said it seems dimmer then his XML based lights. But that could also be because there is not side spill just a square spot. I focus mine to where there is a slight blue around the the square spot. I find that it has the farthest throw this way.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

I changed out the batteries and took it out for a spin right before I had to leave for work. It was about pitch dark. It hit the barn above with no problem so it seemed to me. And at 200yds it did good as well. I'll take some pictures Monday or Tues nite if weather permits and post them if that is ok with you guys and I don't have anyone critique my pictures on here. But I may have a good light afterall. Oh and I did fine tune the focus. So if I am in fact wrong, I will be the first to admit it for jumping the gun.


----------



## Gregozedobe

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> I changed out the batteries



Are you running it on a single 18650 battery ? The Dereelight XR-E R2 EZ900 pill is designed for 6-9 volts, so might not have full brightness on just one battery.


----------



## jh333233

Alex1234 said:


> . It's kinda hard to tell how bright a light is in a picture compared to in person. That said it seems dimmer then his XML based lights. But that could also be because there is not side spill just a square spot. I focus mine to where there is a slight blue around the the square spot. I find that it has the farthest throw this way.


Slight blue is caused by abberation, absoulutely normal with aspheric.
p.s. Emitter sitting at focal length yields max throw


----------



## varmint

Alex mine is focused the same way, I went on both sides of that setting and came back to it, my 'square' has defined sides and corners. Right now I am using 2x18350 batteries in it. The best combo it seemed that I tried was 2x18500's, just more runtime was all I think. 2x18650's worked great but just too long for me on a daily useage. Last night I parked my tractor by the gate and went back home until dark and tried it again, it lit it up well, the tractor is a faded green and yellow so nothing shiny there. I looked with just eyesight and binoculars both, I could see all the controls well, it was very dark outside. My TN11 would lite up the tractor as a whole but nowhere as good as the D/L ASP. Overall my favorite light has changed since I got my Derrelight for Christmas, the Derrelight with the xml and smooth reflector with 2x18500 is my favorite by far, size,feel,and just works for me great, I feel very proud to have got it, I would not think of trading it for a new Surefire, no way!
Larry


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

I'm running 2 18650's.


----------



## varmint

Really as a very new person to this I am very impressed as to what it will do but the usage is very limited to me but as a livestock spotting tool it excells, if I had another 18500 extender and batteries that is what I would keep in it all the time. I could tell a slight difference with 1x18650 as to brightness. The 2x18350 works well also and sure is more pocket friendly, I went a week on a charge and pulled them out at 3.7v...........


----------



## Tatjanamagic

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Well I think some are overexaggerating how far this Dereelight will actually throw. I got my other one, and so far I'm not impressed. I talked to another guy that said the exact same thing. I'll let you know more Monday nite after I get to see what it truly will do at 350yds.




ILIKEFLAFLIGHT...

U R very strange guy...

U say that U R not impressed with DBS V3 1,5 amp ez900 r2 throw and you ordered another same DBS flashlight?

Why did U ordered second flashlight if U R not impressed by its throw? 

Saablaster as one of the best expert in this field measured 100 kcd for that flashlight, few members measured over 90kcd( me also) our member 2100 also tested it at beginning of this thread...

I know that aspheric is not for everyone because beam is not so pretty but U must be impressed by its throw simply because this flashlight is one of the top LED throwers available... U will not be impressed only if U R comparing it to HID...

So as U R first person that is not impressed by this flashlights throw I suggest you to sell your DBS... I am pretty sure that U will have satisfied costumer that will buy it right away...


This is for all U guys:

In order to get most throw of this flashlight U got to be sure that U have R2 EZ 900 WD white tint emitter(because there are 2 more emitter colors to choose) and 1SM and 3SM drive at 1.5A; WD tint has to be as on pictures belov.

1S and 3SD drive at 1.2A. so U will not gain full throw with them (only 60kcd)


P.S.

Your pictures on this thread are terrible. My china aspherical has better throw than your dbs on that picture...

This how pictures of dbs aspherical have to look:
150 meters DBS aspherical VS Crelant 7G5





And note that this picture is in a light polluted city. In complete dark this would be twice as bright
400 meters





and TK70 compassion video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhLEVYT1eAs&feature=player_embedded


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well for one I didn't order another I exchanged it for another so get it right. Two, I didn't have a lot of time to play with the light and to make my decision on the first one. So that's my bad on my part. So I guess I need to thouroughly test from now on before I make any decisions. Myabe the same can be said for the 2nd one. I guess that's the kid in me acting. Have you ever been wrong? Of course not now! LOL! But if you remember somebody got a weaker 7G5 and I exchanged it for another and it's a lot better. And I do have you to thank for that one buddy.


----------



## varmint

Tat---thats exactly the setup I have and your image is a carbon copy of mine. The ASP is not for everyone but I sure use mine every night :thumbsup: :thumbsup:.... You made me recheck my pill to see and yes it is the EZ900 R2 same as yours.


----------



## varmint

Ilike--- I sure hope you are pleased with your D/L from here on, I really like mine and my XML D/L also, I was surprised with mine from the start, in dense air they are like a white laser beam especially in fog. Tonight here will be a good test due to the heavy overcast and rain. I just recharged my 18350 cells today so it should really do well.
Larry


----------



## my#1hobby

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Show me a actual picture not zoomed in of even 400yds like this one with Dereelight lighting up the object like this white barn. I'll show my point Monday nite. I may be wrong, but I don't think it will do much at this distance.



Really??? My DBS would easily light up that barn at that distance.


----------



## 2100

I guess I need to report this because several of us recommended the light. A local flashaholic purchased the light on my recommendation at another forum and also reported the same thing, it threw less than his Sky Ray STL-V2 @ 100-150m (62mm HD XM-L budget light which gets ummm....49k cd). I actually felt a bit bad because it was through my recommendation.  

Went through some checks, and finally i get to see the beamshots. He also said the head was ok, it was all tightened up so it's focused, all screwed in till the end of the stop. Ahh! You are not supposed to screw it all in like a regular reflector flashlight, *there is some play and the focussed spot is actually like about 1-2 turns counter-clockwise from the end. 
*
So after the fine-tuning we get this : 

Original "focus" : 






After focusing (in fact I think you can fine tune it further, use a white wall @ 30-100 metres, like the side of a white building....good enough) :







I guess it'd be great if you have a meter. Fine tune it visually first. Make sure you always start off at the same head temperature. Move it left and right 1/4 of a turn at any one time (2 pieces of white tape on the body and head helps a lot i guess). Check which position gives you more lux. There is a possibility that a very very slightly defocused position gives you higher Peak Beam Candle Power but only at the centre of the hotspot with a smaller area than a whole focussed image of the emitter. Actually for a EZ900, the whole die has 10% uniformity in lux reading. The EZ1000 varies more, something like 20%+. For the EZ1000 the peak is only at that area near the bond wires.


----------



## 2100

Oh...i think i didn't mention specifically. You are supposed to fine tune the focus until you see the focussed image of the emitter, with all those lines of the bond wires and stuff. It has to be focussed that well. Don't worry about the chromatic abberations/purple fringing, that's normal.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Yep and mine will too now that I have it better foucused. I want to take a picture but it's snowing.


----------



## Alex1234

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Yep and mine will too now that I have it better foucused. I want to take a picture but it's snowing.


 take some snow pictures  of the beam


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well it was lightly snowing a fine wet mist. We will call this 400yds. I'm zoomed in about halfway on my camera on 9x.


----------



## varmint

More like it! My tractor was 1800'-- 600yds and it looked almost like that! You will notice that the weather seems to add or subtract distance seen some. Mine in the fog was unreal.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Here's a 365yd shot with the Dereelight off my pool deck. 






And here it is zoomed in on 9x.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

And here's one at 210yds.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

troelskc said:


> Here we go. A pill comparison in the Dereelight DBS Aspherical. I bought Vin's 1.8A EZ900 to get higher lux. (mistyped Vin vs. Saabin the gif).
> 
> @ 5m
> f/2.5, 1/15 s, iso 100
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My conclusion is that the 1.5A is smaller and brighter than the 1.8A. Any ideas why? I screwed the pills in all the way in, and focused the projection the best I could.



This is example how DBS V3 should not be set...

Yellow corona around die should not be visible(or just slightly if U got DBS with blurrier lenses)...

With DBS set up this way you will have less throw...


So once again for best throw stand 7-10 meters from wall and set it up so that led chip is clearly visible like on picture above but without yellow corona...

I got to mention that it should not be to blue in set up... You will figure that out for sure...

I think ILEKFLASHLIGHT's is still not good focused because it looks very blue to me... But maybe I am wrong...

Edit: No I am not wrong... Ilike set flashlight as I told you(10 meters from wall) and then set it so that U don't have yellow corona or angry blue corona around led die like on your 400 yds picture... Some DBS are ultra clear with die projection while some are blurrier but either way it should be monster throw...


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well I set it according to what 2100 said. 






You are supposed to see the emitter image. It could be sharper than this, but just to give you an idea. Try 30-100 metres. Plenty bright to see your results.


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> This is example how DBS V3 should not be set...
> 
> Yellow corona around die should not be visible(or just slightly if U got DBS with blurrier lenses)...
> 
> With DBS set up this way you will have less throw...



Well I think the problem with his light is a sub-par lens. I'll go ahead and say it now but I was developing a light based on the DBS as a host but decided in the end not to do it for three reasons. I had the driver break from switching the modes on the new T model. The brass pin that pushes the spring in to change the mode stuck out too far and pushed on the board too hard and bent it in. While I really really like the idea he has going there the execution needs more work. I also don't like the threads and think they are too easily damaged. And finally there is not enough consistency in the performance of the lenses. The one he sent me was an excellent performer but did have a significant scratch on the lens. I have somewhat strict standards for my lenses. I mean they can't all be perfect with these cheap molded lenses and I understand that but I still have standards and if they don't meet it then I will not use it. That would mean using the DBS aspheric would cost me too much in procuring more lenses. At any rate I have found a way to make my far smaller light throw just as far as the larger EZ900 DBS. But with the additional benefit of a neutral tint!


----------



## TEEJ

saabluster said:


> Well I think the problem with his light is a sub-par lens. I'll go ahead and say it now but I was developing a light based on the DBS as a host but decided in the end not to do it for three reasons. I had the driver break from switching the modes on the new T model. The brass pin that pushes the spring in to change the mode stuck out too far and pushed on the board too hard and bent it in. While I really really like the idea he has going there the execution needs more work. I also don't like the threads and think they are too easily damaged. And finally there is not enough consistency in the performance of the lenses. The one he sent me was an excellent performer but did have a significant scratch on the lens. I have somewhat strict standards for my lenses. I mean they can't all be perfect with these cheap molded lenses and I understand that but I still have standards and if they don't meet it then I will not use it. That would mean using the DBS aspheric would cost me too much in procuring more lenses. At any rate I have found a way to make my far smaller light throw just as far as the larger EZ900 DBS. But with the additional benefit of a neutral tint!




You are making me glad I ordered a DEFT edc LR



How much better is the DEFT edc LR than the DBS set up?


----------



## saabluster

TEEJ said:


> You are making me glad I ordered a DEFT edc LR
> 
> 
> 
> How much better is the DEFT edc LR than the DBS set up?



Don't misunderstand me. The DBS is one heck of a light especially for the price. And it will out throw even the current LR a little bit. I would expect my light to be more reliable however, as well as being far more easy to carry due to the smaller size. And the neutral tint of the LR is a big plus of course. But "how much better" is a subjective thing. Depends on ones priorities. Thanks for your support though. Many more great things to come because of it. :thumbsup:


----------



## Tatjanamagic

TEEJ said:


> You are making me glad I ordered a DEFT edc LR
> 
> 
> 
> How much better is the DEFT edc LR than the DBS set up?



Well sir I respect Saabluster but DEFT EDC can not compare in throw with DBS V3 aspheric... And he personally confirmed that...


Saabluster makes an excellent drivers, and he probably put his aspherical lenses into cheap skyrag body...

The main reason I did not bought DEFT EDC LR is because I have 10 $ cheap Sky ray flashlight at home with no anodized threads and build quality is very poor especially comparing it to quality flashlight as DBS... And he used sky ray as a host...







Not to mention U can not upgrade it... Or maybe U can but U will sure pay for that...

Of course he put a lot of work into that flashlight! I appreciate that! Better driver and his aspherical lenses..., and maybe other stuff that I don't see because I don't have it...


Saabluster we all seen that U have skyray body and U changed everything on that cheap flashlight and U made top P60 thrower...


My few question goes directly for you. Why did you expected that all Deerelight DBS components need to be in its original state in order that you can modify it and made new improved flashlight?

- U could simply put your aspherical lenses if you don't like original ones which are BTW pretty good and U claimed that it throws 200 kcd with your XPC so they can not be bad...
- U could put better and improved non brass switch inside if you don't like original one
- Than Thread question Skyray vs Deerelight threads can not compare because DBS threads are 10 times better. Skyrag has cheap non anodized and soft threads and as I have skyray S and I don't have DEFT EDC I don't know how U improved that threads...

So U could order DBS without lenses and without switch and price for U would be probably miserable(few $)... And than U could add better aspheric lenses, better driver and better switch(or simply put off spring from switch)... I don't see problem...


But at the begining of this threads U made some boundaries claiming that DBS aspherical can throw 200 000 klux meter with your XPC driver...

So now if U will made small flashlight that will throw that far I will not have nothing to add even if the host will be sky ray...


----------



## psychbeat

The lens on the DBS is massive compared to the (hand selected) 26mm Ahorton lens used in the DEFT EDC

Just sayin


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> Well sir I respect Saabluster but DEFT EDC can not compare in throw with DBS V3 aspheric... And he personally confirmed that...
> 
> 
> Saabluster makes an excellent drivers, and he probably put his aspherical lenses into cheap skyrag body...
> 
> The main reason I did not bought DEFT EDC LR is because I have 10 $ cheap Sky ray flashlight at home with no anodized threads and build quality is very poor especially comparing it to quality flashlight as DBS... And he used sky ray as a host...
> 
> Not to mention U can not upgrade it... Or maybe U can but U will sure pay for that...
> 
> Of course he put a lot of work into that flashlight! I appreciate that! Better driver and his aspherical lenses..., and maybe other stuff that I don't see because I don't have it...
> 
> Saabluster we all seen that U have skyray body and U changed everything on that cheap flashlight and U made top P60 thrower...
> 
> The main reason I did not bought DEFT EDC LR is because I have 10 $ cheap Sky ray flashlight at home with no anodized threads and build quality is very poor especially comparing it to quality flashlight as DBS... And he used sky ray as a host...



It is Skyray. Yes that is the host we use for the current lights. I know it is hard for you to understand why a light could cost so much when the starting point is a cheap light. When you actually are on this side of things it is crystal clear. There are so many aspects to this that I don't have the time to type them all out but will try to cover a few. 

I should say that it has always been my intention to give the absolute best performance in the world for any given packages size restraints and to do so without ripping off the consumers. I have never had the money to buy all the super nice lights I have seen here on CPF. Most specifically the custom lights that I drooled over. I have always wanted people like me to be able to afford something nice and set out to make that happen. 

With limited resources and a small niche market that is the dedicated thrower scene it seemed that the lowest cost way to make lights was to use a host. The problem is I have high standards. My original lights which noone has yet to beat were made by me at varying degrees of money loss to me. They took so much time to make that I sold them for less than it cost me to make them. In the end that was $425 and I was *still* losing money and the base host for that light cost me about $15. 

There are so many things that you have to account for that you just don't realize looking from the outside in and even from the inside as I found out. I resisted raising prices despite losses because I was sure that I would be able to find a way to make it work somehow and based my prices, not on how much work it took me, but how much I thought/hoped I could get it down to at some point in the future. That point never came. 

I turned out some absolutely fabulous lights though even though the starting point was a cheap Chinese light. To make profit on that light I really needed to charge between $800 and $1000. The lights were mind-blowingly complicated to build. The carbon fiber bezel had a multi-core design and had special tabs that had to be delicately welded to the metal bezel. I could go on and on about how insanely difficult they were. After all that work all it took was a little mistake to ruin the whole thing and it was wasted. I made my own lenses for crying out loud! Some of those lenses would take an *entire day* to polish up right. You can't make money when it takes you a day just for a lens.

Anyways I have learned a few things over the years, albeit slowly, and with the current lights we now break even. Hallelujah! The current lights although not sporting the fancy carbon fiber still take a massive amount of work. First off you have to keep in mind that although the bodies are cheap they come with a hidden price. You can't _use_ all of them. I have a huge box full of bodies that I can never sell because they have issues significant enough that I don't want my name attached to them. That costs money.

Then the ones that make it through that qualification process still have to be processed to make them into premium lights. The bodies are given a machined finish which takes quite a while. I had to make a special little tabletop lathe for this process as well. The switches are improved to help them be more reliable. Quite a few of the switches are just trashed because they don't "feel" right. 

We make our own grip rings as the ones that come with the light are junk. That requires a lot of work in and of itself. The making of master parts and then molds. The upkeep of the molds and cost of casting labor and materials. This is in-house stuff because the numbers are not high enough to go source super high quality rings from someone in the thousands. All the components are of the highest quality including the high dollar ultra pure copper we use and the CNC machining required to make these parts. Solid to copper bonding and then a relatively difficult step of soldering wires onto the backside of the LED. But your not done yet. You still have to pot around the LED to make sure the solder joints hold reliably for life. Then a hole has to be drilled and tapped for ground. Once this is all done they get processed to become LR LEDs and a whole lot end up getting destroyed in the process. Each one that gets destroyed is money down the drain. You can't get that time and money back. 

The tuning of the light is very difficult as well. The pill has to be set in the body with an interference fit and tuned up and down in three axis. You start by guessing where you think it should be and then put the head on and see how it actually performs. It is almost never right so you pull the head off and on several times just trying to assure it is just right. The lenses are also a problem in that I can't use all of those either. I think it is about 25% we don't use because they don't perform well enough. 

We spend time on the threads deburring them and generally making them buttery smooth. Far more so than at least the DBS that was sent to me. The threads are better designed and less prone to cross threading on our lights. The DBS has threads that are too fine. 

Now add on all the incidentals. Water, power, lubes, sand paper, various chemicals, paper towels, screws, epoxies, shop upkeep, o-rings, tools, R+D, warranties, customer service, website, paypal fees, health insurance, a $15,000 CNC machine and more. Trust me if you were on my side you would have a lot more respect for what it takes to create our lights.





Tatjanamagic said:


> My few question goes directly for you. Why did you expected that all Deerelight DBS components need to be in its original state in order that you can modify it and made new improved flashlight?


Again you have to understand the business side. Yes I could make significant alterations and make it close to perfect but every alteration costs money. So then the question becomes is the cost of the alteration worth it? If it costs more to make it right than it would have been to have an entire light made to your specification in the first place the decision is pretty clear. I finally came to the conclusion that what it would take to make right for it to be worthy of my name was not worth it. 



Tatjanamagic said:


> - U could simply put your aspherical lenses if you don't like original ones which are BTW pretty good and U claimed that it throws 200 kcd with your XPC so they can not be bad...


Finding the right lens is one of the single hardest parts about designing a new light like this. They are not easy to get. The problem with sourcing fom China is the quality is hit or miss. You may in some cases as I found out have to buy 4 lenses to get one good one. So no it is not a "simple" matter.



Tatjanamagic said:


> - U could put better and improved non brass switch inside if you don't like original one


Yes I could but that would cost money. And frankly it is not simply a new brass switch that is needed but a redesign of the way it works. I know how to engineer it properly but it is not necessarily worth it. 



Tatjanamagic said:


> - Than Thread question Skyray vs Deerelight threads can not compare because DBS threads are 10 times better. Skyrag has cheap non anodized and soft threads and as I have skyray S and I don't have DEFT EDC I don't know how U improved that threads...


Yes I agree the Skyray as it comes has inferior threads. _Our_ lights however have better threads than the DBS. Anodizing of the threads does not quality make. Surefire makes some of the highest quality threads in the business and they are not anodized. 



Tatjanamagic said:


> So U could order DBS without lenses and without switch and price for U would be probably miserable(few $)... And than U could add better aspheric lenses, better driver and better switch(or simply put off spring from switch)... I don't see problem...


But I'm still left with a light that has threads I don't like. I can't change that. Not to mention that I think the light is ugly. There are a lot of factors involved and you will just have to trust me that the numbers just don't work. It is not as simple as you think it is. Not with my standards anyway.




Tatjanamagic said:


> But at the begining of this threads U made some boundaries claiming that DBS aspherical can throw 200 000 klux meter with your XPC driver...
> 
> So now if U will made small flashlight that will throw that far I will not have nothing to add even if the host will be sky ray...


I can do what I said and more. But lux numbers are only one facet of a light. It needs to be well designed all around and that is what I shoot for not simply a number. As I said in a post just above try sticking a neutral emitter into that DBS and then let's see who wins? Try carrying that DBS in your pocket vs mine. Size matters.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Saabluster thanks on your effort to explain manufacturing procedure of your flashlight... Selection and tuning of parts is not easy... I know because I was manufacturing some parts(not flashlight related) so I really want that you have profit so that U can produce more cool stuff...


Flashlight tastes are different and it should not be argued about that... I had almost all aspherical flashlights available in a world(except yours...sorry) and I would not say that DBS aspherical is ugly flashlight... 

It is not P60 light but it is very acceptable size with enormous throw... It would still throw further with neutral emitter(about 75klux/m) than DEFT EDC LR(about 60 klux/m). But dbs has ez900 and U have tuned XPC inside... That is huge difference... With your XPC DBS would have over 200klux/m throw as you said, and you are biggest expert in this field so there is no reason that we don't thrust you.

C'mon man we are not kids to argue about that but I have to return U  To me rubber rings and polished body looks funny like some kind of clown light... I like classic black finish with no rubbers... But that is only my opinion... 

If U made a Poll about what flashlight would we want for a host for your new flashlight you would have true answer about which flashlights people like.


And one more question? Please sorry if I am disturbing you... Please read...

Why you have intention to made only completely new flashlight and sell only few of them when U could simply invest in tuning parts for certain flashlights(lets say DBS, magcharger and others) and make bigger money? OMG tuning parts for example...

There are more than 200 000 people owning DBS and if only 2000 of them would buy upgrade from you on which U can earn lets say 30$ piece it would be 60 000$ earnings... There are more than 5 milion people owning magcharger(I am giving example only) and U would have 500 000 sold tuned parts for that... I am still waiting better upgrades for it than terralux flood led light...

I am only giving example of this 2 flashlights but there would be others that don't get on my mind currently...

Example I would pay 100$ for your tuned XPC in my DBS... Because I would know that I have what I always wanted from flashlight... 200Klux/m throw.

And I would pay for led upgrade that can really throw to my magcharger...



I want to say make a new flashlight but please made some tuned parts for other flashlights also... I really hoped that you will do so...

And I know that U will say that your budget is low for massive production... But there has to be some way...


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> Saabluster thanks on your effort to explain manufacturing procedure of your flashlight... Selection and tuning of parts is not easy... I know because I was manufacturing some parts(not flashlight related) so I really want that you have profit so that U can produce more cool stuff...
> 
> 
> Flashlight tastes are different and it should not be argued about that... I had almost all aspherical flashlights available in a world(except yours...sorry) and I would not say that DBS aspherical is ugly flashlight...


I agree aesthetics are not worth arguing about. All I am saying is how _I_ feel about it and part of what has lead to my decisions not trying to convince you to feel the same way. I was actually willing to overlook how I felt about the looks because I liked the mode switching concept so much but after the driver broke from simply operating the light I decided not to do any more work on it. 



Tatjanamagic said:


> It is not P60 light but it is very acceptable size with enormous throw... It would still throw further with neutral emitter(about 75klux/m) than DEFT EDC LR(about 60 klux/m). But dbs has ez900 and U have tuned XPC inside... That is huge difference... With your XPC DBS would have over 200klux/m throw as you said, and you are biggest expert in this field so there is no reason that we don't thrust you.
> 
> C'mon man we are not kids to argue about that but I have to return U  To me rubber rings and polished body looks funny like some kind of clown light... I like classic black finish with no rubbers... But that is only my opinion...
> 
> If U made a Poll about what flashlight would we want for a host for your new flashlight you would have true answer about which flashlights people like.


The DBS is acceptable in size for certain times but not all. When I go to church there is no way to carry the DBS on my person but my DEFT edc fits in my pants pocket just fine. It is that ability to be with you at all times that I treasure so much. You know very well that opportunities to use our lights pop up all the time even when we don't expect it. What good is the light going to be if it is not on you when that time comes? 

You are incorrect about the neutral emitter in the DBS being able to throw 75K lux. The neutral XR-Es have the ez1000 die not the ez900. That is a roughly 25% cut right there but that is not all. You can't get R2 binned neutral XR-Es either. The best I've seen is a Q4. So you will have less output due to the lower bin but you also can't run that LED as hard so output will be reduced even further. Like for like my light would win.




Tatjanamagic said:


> And one more question? Please sorry if I am disturbing you... Please read...
> 
> Why you have intention to made only completely new flashlight and sell only few of them when U could simply invest in tuning parts for certain flashlights(lets say DBS, magcharger and others) and make bigger money? OMG tuning parts for example...
> 
> There are more than 200 000 people owning DBS and if only 2000 of them would buy upgrade from you on which U can earn lets say 30$ piece it would be 60 000$ earnings... There are more than 5 milion people owning magcharger(I am giving example only) and U would have 500 000 sold tuned parts for that... I am still waiting better upgrades for it than terralux flood led light...
> 
> I am only giving example of this 2 flashlights but there would be others that don't get on my mind currently...
> 
> Example I would pay 100$ for your tuned XPC in my DBS... Because I would know that I have what I always wanted from flashlight... 200Klux/m throw.
> 
> And I would pay for led upgrade that can really throw to my magcharger...
> 
> I want to say make a new flashlight but please made some tuned parts for other flashlights also... I really hoped that you will do so...
> 
> And I know that U will say that your budget is low for massive production... But there has to be some way...



Why do I want to make complete lights as opposed to parts? Because I believe in a holistic approach to design. Most especially when pushing the absolute limits of technology is this important. If I sell just parts I cannot be assured the application will be correct. That is just the way I do things. I will give some consideration to offering DBS specific upgrades. My main focus is on a new light though.


----------



## BLUE LED

Please count me in for a DBS upgrade.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Thank U on your attention Saabluster and sorry for disturbing you ... 

I agree with Blue Led... Saabluster please made some upgrades for us!

I will just suggest something... U can made some kind of waiting list on which U would have people that are interested for certain upgrades and take 10% deposit and when the upgrade will be done U can send to costumers...


I hope U R not to angry on me?


----------



## GulfCoastToad

Tatjanamagic said:


> ... I really want that you have profit so that U can produce more cool stuff...



Then buy a DEFT edc-LR.


----------



## TEEJ

GulfCoastToad said:


> Then buy a DEFT edc-LR.



That's what I did. 

Paying for bright ideas.


----------



## aerosmith9110

Saabluster, 

Any teaser specs on your new project? 

Thanks!


----------



## saabluster

aerosmith9110 said:


> Saabluster,
> 
> Any teaser specs on your new project?
> 
> Thanks!



Of course not. Nothing really to say about specifics but I will say that it will be completely my own design. This will be the first time people here will get to see my design skills and I'm happy about that. I am very very proud of the products we sell now but the amount of work they take makes the lights non-profitable. This next light is hopefully going to change that. For various reasons that I will not go into now the light will still be the same size as the current one so don't expect to see the 500Kcd R+D monster I created just yet.


----------



## Gregozedobe

saabluster said:


> ...... so don't expect to see the 500Kcd R+D monster I created just yet.



Tease !!!! 

Oh well, I look forward to whatever your next creation is with much interest, whatever it is.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

GulfCoastToad said:


> Then buy a DEFT edc-LR.


I stated my reasons above but there are other ways to help him... Free donations for great ideas... I can donate lets say example 5 $... But I believe that more than 1000 people would donate something for great projects... At least 1 $ but many donations means plenty of $... I don't think this is charity... It is support of stuff U like and stuff that U want to be developed in future...

I understand that is very hard for individual with great ideas and knowledge to breakthrough expanded flashlight market... But there has to be some way to gain $ in order to start massive production that will lower the price...

Lets say that someone has protect patent flashlight, and that he has reliable partner in China flashlight manufacturing industry and breakthrough is possible...

But he must have partner or sponsor(we can be sponsors for start with only 1 $ donation)...

I think Saabluster has good potential to develop his personal brand without any host flashlight because of unique concept flashlights and excellent technology that is not known to regular flashlight manufacturers... 
For example some of my good friends that are manufacturing brand flashlights can not understand how the hell Saabluster tuned XPC to 1,5 amp current because they get angry blue at 0,7 amps... I tried to explain from gathering information on this forum but they said it is not possible to do such stuff in serial production...

And from what we see on this forum Nailbender does not have true 1,4 and 1,7 tuned XPC because some members bought it and they are not happy at all...
So I think only Saabluster knows how to made real stuff...



saabluster said:


> Of course not. Nothing really to say about specifics but I will say that it will be completely my own design. This will be the first time people here will get to see my design skills and I'm happy about that. I am very very proud of the products we sell now but the amount of work they take makes the lights non-profitable. This next light is hopefully going to change that. For various reasons that I will not go into now the light will still be the same size as the current one so don't expect to see the 500Kcd R+D monster I created just yet.



Can we expect regulated 200Kcd flashlight?


----------



## bigchelis

To all who are interested in an 200K Dereelight Aspheric pill with XP-C R4

There are two other builders who do similar LED to copper bonding but you might have to wait months, still an alternative.

Milkyspits in this forum does in fact have LED to copper bonding and doing a 1.4A single mode Dereelight copper Pill with XP-C R4 is something he can do. Now, will it get 200K lux? maybe!

Another alternative is to ask Lamdalights.com, he also has LED to copper technology down. Again, superbusy and even his normal builds are hard to get.


bigC


----------



## BLUE LED

Thank you bigC. I was thinking that maybe 1.4A for a XP-C Q4 might be a little too much, as the pill is quite small and may have difficulty expelling the heat. I wonder how much lux a 1.2a would get me?


----------



## aerosmith9110

saabluster said:


> the light will still be the same size as the current one so don't expect to see the 500Kcd R+D monster I created just yet.




any ball park figure?


----------



## saabluster

aerosmith9110 said:


> any ball park figure?



Not at this time. The design is basically set but I am waiting word on one part that will have a relatively large part to play in how powerful the light will be. There is a ways to go yet.


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> Thank U on your attention Saabluster and sorry for disturbing you ...
> 
> I agree with Blue Led... Saabluster please made some upgrades for us!
> 
> I will just suggest something... U can made some kind of waiting list on which U would have people that are interested for certain upgrades and take 10% deposit and when the upgrade will be done U can send to costumers...
> 
> 
> I hope U R not to angry on me?


I'm certainly not angry with you. You clearly are very passionate about throwing lights as am I. We are on the same team. You must learn to trust me though. For instance I have expressed reservations about putting the XP-C in the DBS. I came to that conclusion because I have tested it and I do not believe it to be an optimized system. I can use a different setup and although the lux numbers will be lower the actual visibility is better. You seem to just want a number. The highest number. I suppose it is not my place to tell you what you should want. Keep in mind that _my_ purpose is to make tools not toys. One of the greatest things about our hobby is the inherently useful nature of it. But I believe we loose track when we forget that they should serve a purpose. A light that puts out 50,000 lumens, while awesome, really is of no interest to me if it is followed by-but only lasts 1 minute on a charge. Likewise with throwers hitting one million lux would be astounding but if the beam is so small that you can't see anything what's the point?



Tatjanamagic said:


> I stated my reasons above but there are other ways to help him... Free donations for great ideas... I can donate lets say example 5 $... But I believe that more than 1000 people would donate something for great projects... At least 1 $ but many donations means plenty of $... I don't think this is charity... It is support of stuff U like and stuff that U want to be developed in future...
> 
> I understand that is very hard for individual with great ideas and knowledge to breakthrough expanded flashlight market... But there has to be some way to gain $ in order to start massive production that will lower the price...
> 
> Lets say that someone has protect patent flashlight, and that he has reliable partner in China flashlight manufacturing industry and breakthrough is possible...
> 
> But he must have partner or sponsor(we can be sponsors for start with only 1 $ donation)...
> 
> I think Saabluster has good potential to develop his personal brand without any host flashlight because of unique concept flashlights and excellent technology that is not known to regular flashlight manufacturers...
> For example some of my good friends that are manufacturing brand flashlights can not understand how the hell Saabluster tuned XPC to 1,5 amp current because they get angry blue at 0,7 amps... I tried to explain from gathering information on this forum but they said it is not possible to do such stuff in serial production...
> 
> And from what we see on this forum Nailbender does not have true 1,4 and 1,7 tuned XPC because some members bought it and they are not happy at all...
> So I think only Saabluster knows how to made real stuff...
> 
> 
> 
> Can we expect regulated 200Kcd flashlight?


It is interesting that you have posted this. It reminded me that I recently have had two people mention the Kickstarter website as a way to get things moving. I may yet do something like that I don't know. One thing I know for sure is that volume is everything. Although not DBS levels I can get the price down pretty low considering I would be having an American made product but *only* if I get the volume. But this really is a niche product isn't it? What I need is to branch out away from simply throwers.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Not the best nite to shoot some beamshots due to the fog. 

Now I have the light focused like Alan said to get optimum throw. 

Dereelight DBS-T XR-E Aspehrical 200yds







Here's the same distance but zoomed in on 18X to see what is actually going on.






Here's one at 20yds.


----------



## my#1hobby

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Not the best nite to shoot some beamshots due to the fog.
> 
> Now I have the light focused like Alan said to get optimum throw.
> 
> Dereelight DBS-T XR-E Aspehrical 200yds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the same distance but zoomed in on 18X to see what is actually going on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's one at 20yds.


Man, that DBS is so freakin cool!!! That zoomed in shot really shows the power at a distance.


----------



## jh333233

Father of Deft, how would dust affect the beam?
Meant by those really small and hard to wipe off tiny particles
Thanks


----------



## Tatjanamagic

saabluster said:


> It is interesting that you have posted this. It reminded me that I recently have had two people mention the Kickstarter website as a way to get things moving. I may yet do something like that I don't know. One thing I know for sure is that volume is everything. Although not DBS levels I can get the price down pretty low considering I would be having an American made product but *only* if I get the volume. But this really is a niche product isn't it? What I need is to branch out away from simply throwers.



Saabluster open Kickstarter web page and inform us about that(ex.what limits need to be reached in order to start production of certain product etc..)... 
And please open thread on this forum about your kick starter page so that people will know...

In fact to me it is very important what I can see and not numbers... Although some lights have high lumen an lux number they does not mean nothing to me if I have lower lux(and $) flashlight that visually(over scope, monocular etc.) out throws them...
And if U will have for example improved dbs throw add on(pill) that can really visually out throw old one I will found that as a great achievement.

I know that U can make 200kcd pill but that would run on very high current... So heat and non suitable host issues will be here...


So numbers are not important.. .What is important that if you can... please make shock resistant(gun recoil) and well heat isolated pill that can visually out throw old one... Build to last pill is better than supertuned that will not last long...

And question:
If one day U will have XPC add on pills for flashlights is it possible to get it regulated on higher current driver(16V or less) so that we can run it on 2×18650 battery?


----------



## RCantor

saabluster said:


> Likewise with throwers hitting one million lux would be astounding but if the beam is so small that you can't see anything what's the point?
> .



Well in that case the light would be the (a) point  :laughing:


----------



## saabluster

jh333233 said:


> Father of Deft, how would dust affect the beam?
> Meant by those really small and hard to wipe off tiny particles
> Thanks


Assuming it is not egregious about a 2% reduction. 



Tatjanamagic said:


> Saabluster open Kickstarter web page and inform us about that(ex.what limits need to be reached in order to start production of certain product etc..)...
> And please open thread on this forum about your kick starter page so that people will know...



Will do.




jh333233 said:


> And question:
> If one day U will have XPC add on pills for flashlights is it possible to get it regulated on higher current driver(16V or less) so that we can run it on 2×18650 battery?


Well we shall see. It is possible of course.






RCantor said:


> Well in that case the light would be the (a) point  :laughing:


 I guess I'm just being dense today but I just don't get it. Sorry. I know jokes aren't as funny if you have to explain them.


----------



## shane45_1911

saabluster said:


> egregious



Egregious? EGREGIOUS?? Where's my damn dictionary....?????


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Here's a couple more good ones I just took of the Derrelight DBS-T XR-E. 

400yds zoomed in on about 14x or so just to see how well it did. Sorry for the tilt picture. I was on a slight slope and didn't mess with adjusting tripod. 






375yds






Same shot above but zoomed in on 18x to see how well it lit it up. That is impressive.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

It is hard to take night pictures... I tried and I can not do it...

So your effort is much appreciated...

But I want to say that DBS in real life has much intense hotspot than on your pictures... For example first picture white house("400yd zoomed in on about 14x just to see how well it did. Sorry for the tilt picture. I was on a slight slope and didn't mess with adjusting tripod.")

I am getting that kind of results on more than 600 meters or 650 yards...

So I got to ask you do U think that your pictures are identical as throw in real life? 

Because if they are something is really wrong with your Emitter or it just run on 1,2 amp driver?


----------



## varmint

DBS question? What battery setup do I need to run to get the most from mine? It has the ez900 3 mode pill and works well? Today I have 2x18350's in it. I have all the extenders. My other DBS has 2x18500's in it, it is an xml and works great. Am I losing anything other than runtime with my 2x18350's? I just dont like the length of 2x18650's in it. Any thoughts will very helpful.
Larry


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Tatjanamagic said:


> It is hard to take night pictures... I tried and I can not do it...
> 
> So your effort is much appreciated...
> 
> But I want to say that DBS in real life has much intense hotspot than on your pictures... For example first picture white house("400yd zoomed in on about 14x just to see how well it did. Sorry for the tilt picture. I was on a slight slope and didn't mess with adjusting tripod.")
> 
> I am getting that kind of results on more than 600 meters or 650 yards...
> 
> So I got to ask you do U think that your pictures are identical as throw in real life?
> 
> Because if they are something is really wrong with your Emitter or it just run on 1,2 amp driver?



Well according to everyone else I know that has one they say it looks good to them. So it must be you. So post some pictures of your laser.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

And I just took a tailcap reading and I'm running 2 18650's and got a reading initially of .840amps but then it tapered down some so call it maybe slightly under that. So that times 2 would be around 1.680amps. And these are set up to burn around 1.50 amps.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

You probably have the one with slightly blurrier lenses... As I mention several times in this thread DBS lenses are same size in each flashlight but they are not same brightness. So U can get one with ultra clear lenses that will throw 5-10%more than one with blurrier one...

That why some members have readings from 86 to 100klux/m.

I tried to take picture but with out successes... Need night settings for my olympus VR 320 camera...


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

I checked the lens and it looks fine to me. Remember I sent this light back and got another. So I think all is well on this one. If you can light up that house better with yours at 375yds, you are more and welcome to come out and show me how much brighter yours is than mine. :naughty:


----------



## jh333233

I dont think ive asked about XP-C 16V pill:shakehead
But thanks for the Dustissues


----------



## 2100

Tat, photos are not a good way to judge the light unless it is side by side...that's why we have lux meters. With a camera i can make a bright light look dark, and a dim light look bright.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

2100 friend can U give me settings for my generic olympus VR 320 camera?

In very dark conditions this light can lid up objects at 1000 meter distance. Serious I am not kidding you. And I agree that U can not judge by pictures. 

Lenses are not all the same for this flashlight I know because I had plenty of them. They look same but some throw blurrier and some clearer than others. But either way they can throw...


----------



## bigchelis

Does anybody know or have the MG AR Coated lens for the DBS?
It would be close to $40 for one shipped, but when I got one on a Mag build it made a visible difference. In my case quality did matter now what part number is it for DBS??


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Tatjanamagic said:


> 2100 friend can U give me settings for my generic olympus VR 320 camera?
> 
> In very dark conditions this light can lid up objects at 1000 meter distance. Serious I am not kidding you. And I agree that U can not judge by pictures.
> 
> Lenses are not all the same for this flashlight I know because I had plenty of them. They look same but some throw blurrier and some clearer than others. But either way they can throw...



Well it don't get much darker than what it is here at my place. No lights whatsoever. It is pitch black. And I sure would love to see any Dereelight at my place light up objects at 1000 meters and I'm not talking about lighting up a reflector on a car either. There's a big difference betweem lighting up and object to where you can see it than just make a reflector reflect some little visible light. The Dereelight is not a 1000 meter thrower. And yours is not anymore special than anyone elses. Again you are more than welcome to bring your light to my part of the woods. I think you would be somewhat disappointed on the outcome. Hell I will even take the pictures for you and post them for all to see. You act like your light when turned on is like the sun coming up in the morning. It's that great. Now come on! You sound like one of those persons that what you got it a lot better than everyone elses.


----------



## gcbryan

At 600 meters the lux would only be .25 (and this would be under ideal conditions). If you are using a scope to determine throw (or a telescope) that's a different matter. They would be no more light but you might be able to detect it at a lower level.

No way the DBS throws 1000 meters.


----------



## roadkill1109

probably visible from 1000 meters, but the light to reach that far, naah. I doubt even the SR90 with aspheric head (if it existed) could reach that far, hmm... but maybe it would... hehe...


----------



## roadkill1109

Mah pket throwr!


----------



## Tatjanamagic

gcbryan said:


> At 600 meters the lux would only be .25 (and this would be under ideal conditions). If you are using a scope to determine throw (or a telescope) that's a different matter. They would be no more light but you might be able to detect it at a lower level.
> 
> No way the DBS throws 1000 meters.




DBS aspheric illuminates white object at 1000 meter distance. I guarantee you that. It is tested and proven...

I mentioned before in my threads and posts difference between usable throw and illumination.

Usable throw is distance at which U can clearly identify your target and for DBS this distance is 450 + meters(depends on night conditions)

We were shooting on target(black circle on white paper) on 450 meter distance with no problem.

So I know what I am talking about. It can reach 1000 meters but that will not be usable throw.

And for *roadkill1109* 

Man U got learn much more about throw... There are no led emitter in a world (I am talking about regular ones, not super tuned) that can out throw XRE ez900 die. Even XPC can not do it unless supertuned... 

So sst90 80 and whole army of new emitters in combination with aspheric lenses can not throw that far in combination with aspherical lenses.

DBS with aspherical head easily out throws much larger commercial available reflector brothers with whole army of new emitters...

I know because I tried. People who trusted me at beginning of this thread have bought DBS and they are not disappointed because they have currently farthest throwing commercial available led flashlight in a world...


----------



## 2100

Tatjanamagic said:


> 2100 friend can U give me settings for my generic olympus VR 320 camera?
> 
> In very dark conditions this light can lid up objects at 1000 meter distance. Serious I am not kidding you. And I agree that U can not judge by pictures.
> 
> Lenses are not all the same for this flashlight I know because I had plenty of them. They look same but some throw blurrier and some clearer than others. But either way they can throw...



Yeah...well the first thing that you need is the tripod. Seriously even if your camera does not have manual mode it's ok...just need the tripod and let it shoot in auto. Even a $15 crappy one is ok.

BTW bro, check out BLF....someone is claiming 750k cd for a XM-L aspheric and hit 1 mil cd for XR-E EZ900 overdriven. Well I am a bit skeptical but i remain hopeful and open-minded.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

2100 it can be... But that are homemade flashlights... I am interested only in commercial available one...

Tripod... Thanks... I always get blurry and unrecognizable picture, probably because of hand shaking...

In auto mode it always uses flash? Should I deactivate flash?


----------



## 2100

Tatjanamagic said:


> 2100 friend can U give me settings for my generic olympus VR 320 camera?
> 
> In very dark conditions this light can lid up objects at 1000 meter distance. Serious I am not kidding you. And I agree that U can not judge by pictures.
> 
> Lenses are not all the same for this flashlight I know because I had plenty of them. They look same but some throw blurrier and some clearer than others. But either way they can throw...



Well there really is no standard setting because it depends on your spot intensity which directly depends on the distance. But a tripod is a must.... i just checked out the Oly VR-320, it's a 12.5x (300mm) superzoom kind of cam. 

I saw the replies doubting the 1000m throw, and yes they are correct. But you can see it on your scope, i believe too....because i can with a pair of 7 x 50. With a 152mm front objective telescope you probably can hit 2000m.  But that's because of 2 factors (1) magnification and (2) light amplification. That is how telescopes work in astronomy (ask gcbryan...he's into this as well and i am sure some others here too).... you can see stuff which you cannot see with your naked eyes. Obviously your hotspot has to be brighter than ambient. In a very dark site, you can see galaxies which are of say mag 9 on the scope....but in a city skyline kind of condition (eg mag 2) you can own the biggest 24-inch telescope and you won't see it.

Of course for your rifle scope, it probably is a 42mm or something. That's good enough to have a fair amount of light amplification. 7 x 50 is ok for really wide field astronomy.

Ok...make it simpler, your eyes' pupil max diameter is just like 7mm or something for a young healthy adult. Your scope is 42mm. That's a whole lot more area. How about a 152mm/6-inch refractor? WOW! Now those big dobsonians..... can you imagine how much more light gathering capability? Here's a picture...

http://www.obsessiontelescopes.com/telescopes/25/index.php


----------



## 2100

Tatjanamagic said:


> In auto mode it always uses flash? Should I deactivate flash?



Yeah....of course deactivate the flash....it can be set in some modes. Try it.


----------



## TEEJ

For a point and shoot camera, mount it on a tripod, turn off the flash, and use the timer to take the shot (So your finger pushing the button doesn't shake the camera during the pic), or push the button slowly and gently at least to not shake the camera.

When I tried to take pics w/o the tripod, they were so blurry they were worthless...the camera must be held still - but, after that, it will just leave the shutter open longer if its dark...and the pics come out exposed enough and clear enough to see what the light did at least.

On mine, If I zoom in to see the target of the throw...it can't see that far to expose it correctly...so I have to leave it zoomed out rather than zoomed in, to take a pic....and the light off in the distance is simply a small spec in the pic if far away.

Also, the further away the shot, the more you also need to hold the LIGHT steady...as th beam's movement is blurred during the long exposure period.



For me at least, I think I could a better representation of the throw effect if the camera was close to the target...but the flashlight far away....and just have a buddy either shine the light or take the pic/use a remote, etc.

I always wanted to just have a buddy hold a light meter and start walking away, recording the LUX at the increasing ranges as he went....until the Lux waned to less than 0.25, etc....and see what THAT distance was.




As for lighting up a particular target...lighting up a WHITE building is deceptive, as white is fairly reflective in this context. A large surface with even a faint amount of light hitting it is much more noticeable than say a flat black building....or a deer, etc.

In USE, a white building is rarely what you are needing to find. For me, if using an S&R type light, I'm looking for bodies/hurt people, etc....and that might be someone in a prone position, or, prostrate in the grass, etc....MUCH harder to resolve than the broad side of a white barn.

I can light up white objects with the SR90 at 1,000 M range, but I don't count that, as a white object is not a fair target for this purpose, its too much like a reflector. My point and shoot camera's flash can light up reflectors at that range too for example, and its "throw" is not exactly impressive...

On a Power Line Right of Way, where I have a long straight run of towers and light poles for over 1000 meters, the wooden poles might be visible ~ 600-700 meters, but the white towers much further out, and the reflectors ON those towers even further than that. The limit is actually my eyes at that range, not the light as a limiting factor, where reflective targets are present.


The other large factor, out here at least, is the clarity of the air itself...there's almost always so much STUFF in the air, that the light is diffused on its journet to the target. That makes 6" reflectors blurry to look at, and at 1000 M+ ranges, a string of them are blended together so its too hard to see individual reflectors past a certain point.

This is part of the reason I'd like an actual Lux meter as my target.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

2100 and TEEJ thanks! Will try when I will have tripod.

I want to add that I use Karl Kahles 3,5-10×50 profesional rifle scope for observation flashlights throw... 



This very expensive gear like Swarovski or Carl Zeiss.


----------



## jh333233

Another vote for T40CS
Much tighter hotspot(5 degrees) with superb throw
Best M3LT substitution
Can be powered by 2 16340,unfortunately they have altered the diameter of battery tube so that T20CS tube cant fit on it


----------



## awenta

I vote to have all of these listed at the top with basic information along side. :thumbsup:


----------



## gcbryan

I wonder if it's possible to have 3 XR-E R2 emitters mounted on a concave surface so that they focus at the same point. You would then put a small collimator lens at that point and then a larger aspheric lens at the usual appropriate focal length.

I'm not sure if the collimator lens would be able to take full advantage of the highly angled beams from the 3 emitters.


----------



## saabluster

gcbryan said:


> I wonder if it's possible to have 3 XR-E R2 emitters mounted on a concave surface so that they focus at the same point. You would then put a small collimator lens at that point and then a larger aspheric lens at the usual appropriate focal length.
> 
> I'm not sure if the collimator lens would be able to take full advantage of the highly angled beams from the 3 emitters.



Will not work.


----------



## gcbryan

saabluster said:


> Will not work.



I figured that if it was that easy you would have already done it 

However, care to elaborate a bit? 

Are the angles at the intersect point such that the collimator lens can't effectively collimate it?

By the way, I saw a thread on another site today where someone built an aspheric with 3 emitters (XR-E) using (3) 44mm aspherics all in an 88mm head. Some of the asperics had to be ground down a bit. The lenses were mounted in such a way that a twist of the head could fine tune the aspherics making them all overlap (the projected images that is).


----------



## saabluster

gcbryan said:


> I figured that if it was that easy you would have already done it
> 
> However, care to elaborate a bit?
> 
> Are the angles at the intersect point such that the collimator lens can't effectively collimate it?
> 
> By the way, I saw a thread on another site today where someone built an aspheric with 3 emitters (XR-E) using (3) 44mm aspherics all in an 88mm head. Some of the asperics had to be ground down a bit. The lenses were mounted in such a way that a twist of the head could fine tune the aspherics making them all overlap (the projected images that is).



Yeah I wish it was that easy. Whatever you want collimated must be in the center. Adding a lens does not change that. 

Multi-aspherics are nothing new. In fact the best I saw was one where the three beams were aimed at a common point so they actually created a more intense beam than if they all pointed perfectly forward. No defocusing needed to blend the beams. Think it might have been Packhorse but I'm not sure. At any rate I have not messed with multi-emitter aspherics because they are not as powerful as a single high quality lens assuming the overall diameter stays the same.


----------



## gcbryan

saabluster said:


> Yeah I wish it was that easy. Whatever you want collimated must be in the center. Adding a lens does not change that.
> 
> Multi-aspherics are nothing new. In fact the best I saw was one where the three beams were aimed at a common point so they actually created a more intense beam than if they all pointed perfectly forward. No defocusing needed to blend the beams. Think it might have been Packhorse but I'm not sure. At any rate I have not messed with multi-emitter aspherics because they are not as powerful as a single high quality lens assuming the overall diameter stays the same.



The light I saw had the LEDs aimed at a common point as well. That was the whole point (of this light). It's just that it had the ability to move that common point around a bit to fine tune it.

I can see one good quality aspheric being better than 3 smaller one as far as what the lens can do but when you add 2 more emitters aimed at the same spot I would think the lux has got to go up and I don't see how that could be accomplished using just one larger aspheric (if you are going to use 3 emitters). So that still looks like an application where 3 lenses with 3 emitters would be better than one large lens and only one emitter.


----------



## jh333233

Basic law:
Non-parallel light rays will eventually meet each other result in a "focus"
When the screen(or target) has moved, the focus will not be on the new position unless the optics is moved


----------



## philmadxx

I'm VERY new to the flashlight sickness but I have it bad. Do in part to this thread and others, I just received a Crelant 7G5 - and it is AWESOME - of course I have nothing to compare it to other than a 3d maglight from 20 years ago - not much of a comparison. 

Thanks to everyone - cool place to hang out. Now if I could only figure out what a "pill" is.

Phil


----------



## jh333233

philmadxx said:


> I'm VERY new to the flashlight sickness but I have it bad. Do in part to this thread and others, I just received a Crelant 7G5 - and it is AWESOME - of course I have nothing to compare it to other than a 3d maglight from 20 years ago - not much of a comparison.
> 
> Thanks to everyone - cool place to hang out. Now if I could only figure out what a "pill" is.
> 
> Phil


A pill is a drop in
Let say P60 pill, it means a P60 drop in
Like metro being railway


----------



## gcbryan

philmadxx said:


> I'm VERY new to the flashlight sickness but I have it bad. Do in part to this thread and others, I just received a Crelant 7G5 - and it is AWESOME - of course I have nothing to compare it to other than a 3d maglight from 20 years ago - not much of a comparison.
> 
> Thanks to everyone - cool place to hang out. Now if I could only figure out what a "pill" is.
> 
> Phil



It's the emitter and the piece of metal that it is affixed to. It's sometimes used synonymously with drop-in which usually also includes the reflector (in the case of P60 size lights).

It's just a quick way to be able to change the emitter is some lights by just taking out one "pill" and putting in another.


----------



## ma_sha1

gcbryan said:


> I can see one good quality aspheric being better than 3 smaller one as far as what the lens can do but when you add 2 more emitters aimed at the same spot I would think the lux has got to go up and I don't see how that could be accomplished using just one larger aspheric (if you are going to use 3 emitters). So that still looks like an application where 3 lenses with 3 emitters would be better than one large lens and only one emitter.



For ultimate lux, one large lens is always better than 3 smaller lens/3 leds. 
The 3 led set-up will triple the lumens, but smaller lens make the spot much bigger, the spot intensity, even with 3 spot stacked on top of each other,
still not as intense. 

Same thing with reflectors, triples will always be more floody & will not out throw singles with one large reflector fitting in the same diameter head.


----------



## psychbeat

Got my Smallsun aspheric today. 
I don't have a meter but the beam looks a bit smaller than my ez900 Ahorton. 
A bit more intense too. 

Might have to get it modded to 1.7a neutral single mode. 
I don't need modes for this kind of light. 

The sliding focus thing would suck if the best focus wasn't at the far end. 
It's too easily slid to be in the middle.

Impressive light for the $ !
Shipping from HK (Manafont) took a month. 

I still prefer the Ahorton kit in an L2P as its smaller and u can use any pill u want.
Maybe the Smallsun takes p60 type pills - I havnt opened it up yet. 

Cheers!


----------



## TEEJ

I took some beam shots the other night with some throwers I had with me on the way back from work....so the pics are crappy, but if you ignore the noise, you can mentally correct back to the amount of light on the target.


The shots include an assortment of Olight SR90 (De-Domed) and the Magic Scorpion HID, and the DEFT edc LR - on some long range (500 - 800 meter) targets...they reached both.


And some additional shots on closer (233 meter) targets for the 4sevens S18, the Klarus XT20, the Jetbeam RRT-3 XML, and DRY, ...for mid-range.

I didn't do any closer than the 233 meter range....my camera battery decided it had been enough pics for the night.








A few (Proof I need a better low light with zoom camera...) beam shots for calibration purposes:






Magic Gashfire illuminating a Power Line Tower at 800 meter range (In real life, you could see it better, but the pics suck - apply accordingly to pics to follow, etc...)







De-Domed Olight SR90 illuminating same tower at 800 meters (In real life, it was easier to see than with the Magic, but you could see the tower was actually lit up by both of them) - The De-Domed SR90 out threw the HID, with more light on the target even at 800 meters. Both COULD throw further than that though, but I had nothing good to shoot at as a target. I was shooting blind, as the view finder was pitch black, and I saw nothing until I got home.










Magic on Tower at 500 Meters







DD SR90 on same tower at 500 M, not zoomed (Forgot to shoot Magic unzoomed :duh2: )







DD SR 90 on 500 M tower






--------

Pond, 233 meters to treeline on other side of pond - A building, visible as a light colored wall in some shots, was on the other side of that tree line, about another 40 meters further away.






Control








Magic









Magic









Magic








Magic









DD SR90









DD SR90









DEFT edc LR









DRY









Klarus XT20








XT20








XT20








Jetbeam RRT-3 XML








RRT-3 XML








RRT-3 XML









Foursevens Maelstrom S18









S18








S18


----------



## Tatjanamagic

It is hard to take night pictures. I appreciate your effort TEEJ. SR90 is excellent thrower but it is huge and not gun mountable... It is to bright for my taste so I C further with aspheric...

But lets say for night walkings and any other regular night activity it is very good and reliable friend.

Not good for hunting.


----------



## jh333233

> (Proof I need a better low light with zoom camera...)


I recommend Nikon's DC if not DSLR
I remember their coolpix have manual shutter speed,aperture,ISO (Maybe focus as well)
Best thing is 18x optical zoom and below $400 USD, even cheaper on promotion
All you need is this little slim cam and a tripod


----------



## TEEJ

jh333233 said:


> I recommend Nikon's DC if not DSLR
> I remember their coolpix have manual shutter speed,aperture,ISO (Maybe focus as well)
> Best thing is 18x optical zoom and below $400 USD, even cheaper on promotion
> All you need is this little slim cam and a tripod



The above is with a Nikon Coolpix S630 on a tripod...but I can't see a way to manually set it. Perhaps the newer models can.


----------



## jh333233

[OT]
There are 2 kinds of coolpix
One with manual and the other one isnt
Im using S9100 and it isn't manually controllable
The kind with prefix "P" is
S isnt
Unfortunately you cant have both manual and 18x 
[/OT]

Sorry for OTing


----------



## Burntrice




----------



## jh333233

Fun video but i see a (possible) flaw in the beam
You can see the beam is X shaped, making a focus o' light
And indicating the lens is too far away from emitter
In prime condition or mega-throw, the light beam should be collimated
But in this case, the object distance is behind focus, the lens should be taken closer to emitter to produce collimation
BTW, it seems that your neighbours have much brighter blaster:nana:


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Nice video Burntrice,

No flaws in his beam JH it is just right way aspheric collimate beam I had same X shaped beam on Tiablo A9 as well...






If U observe carefully U can see X shape in my picture...


----------



## eyeeatingfish

the SR450 has a nice big reflector and that thing is a great thrower!


----------



## TEEJ

eyeeatingfish said:


> the *SR450* has a nice big reflector and that thing is a great thrower!



Wow, it SOUNDS like its even better than the *SR90*!





Probably irrelevant, but:






Could the repeating bright/dim patterns along the beams of light have anything to do with a resonance harmonic between the frequency of the emitter/media and the frequency of the wavelength?


----------



## SCEMan

On my nightly walk along the hill behind my street, I took my DBS Aspherical 1.5 EZ900 in case I spotted something beyond the reach of my XM-L P60 walking light. I noticed a shadow overhead and locked the DBS on a great horned owl flying 50-200 yards out. Lit him up like daylight! It was awesome as I watched him hunt for several minutes until I lost him behind a hill. I'm carrying the DBS Asp from now on as it fits comfortably in the back pocket of my BDUs or the cordura belt pouch I found.


----------



## psychbeat

So I removed the pill from my Small Sun and found that it would be easy to jam a reflectored p60 module in there. 
I stuck an old ez900 q5 (I think) single mode SMO in with some foil as a shim. 
The reflector adds some artifacts but u could paint it black. 
Anyways, this makes for an easy mod to get the emitter drive level modes and tint u want behind a lens that's slightly larger than the Ahorton. 

The drawback being that the emitter sits a bit Lower than the stock pill so the best focus for throw is about halfway extended. 

I'm thinking a neutral XPE @2amps would be nice. 

The XRE image is about half the size or less than the Ahorton. 
I don't have a meter but it's a bit more intense which makes sense as its a bit larger. 

Not sure if anyone is interested in either of these lights (seems the DBS is what people are diggin most here)

Food for thought.


----------



## selfbuilt

FYI, I've justed posted a review of the new versions of the venerable Tiablo A9 - including a XR-E R2 (EZ900 die, apparently).

Tiablo A9 "Throw King" XR-E R2 & "Flood" XM-L U2 Review: ASPHERIC BEAMSHOTS, RUNTIMES

Thought you might like to see how the aspherics compare between the various models (also including the XP-G R5 and XM-L U2 versions below):






Plenty more in the review, including detailed throw, output and runtime measures - as well as white-wall shots of the aspheric head on all models ...


----------



## walterr839

with a budget in mind for $28 this 
Romisen RC T601 II throws as far as a TK 35


----------



## psychbeat

Thanks for that selfbuilt !
Great review as always. 

It seems they could push the emitters a bit harder but looks like a nice package. 


if anyone is on a budget:
For ~16$ the small sun aspheric is a fun toy


----------



## brandocommando

No posts in this thread for 3 days??? Bump it up!

I just did a complete overhaul on my Lumapower Turbo Force!

You can see what I did in my build thread HERE.


----------



## Matt7337

SCEMan said:


> On my nightly walk along the hill behind my street, I took my DBS Aspherical 1.5 EZ900 in case I spotted something beyond the reach of my XM-L P60 walking light. I noticed a shadow overhead and locked the DBS on a great horned owl flying 50-200 yards out. Lit him up like daylight! It was awesome as I watched him hunt for several minutes until I lost him behind a hill. I'm carrying the DBS Asp from now on as it fits comfortably in the back pocket of my BDUs or the cordura belt pouch I found.



I just ordered this setup for my DBS V3 at the weekend (along with an 18650 extension tube) to alternate with my standard head setup - a smooth reflector and the Dereelight 3SD R5 XP-G pill. Even though the throw is impressive on that stock head, I've found myself using it less and less because of the cold, harsh tint and usually go with the more neutral XR-E Q5 driven DBS V1. Hopefully the new aspherical setup on the V3 will change that :thumbsup:


----------



## SCEMan

Matt7337 said:


> I just ordered this setup for my DBS V3 at the weekend (along with an 18650 extension tube) to alternate with my standard head setup - a smooth reflector and the Dereelight 3SD R5 XP-G pill. Even though the throw is impressive on that stock head, I've found myself using it less and less because of the cold, harsh tint and usually go with the more neutral XR-E Q5 driven DBS V1. Hopefully the new aspherical setup on the V3 will change that :thumbsup:



Be sure to post your comments on the DBS ASP setup once you've tried it outside.


----------



## davyro

philmadxx said:


> I'm VERY new to the flashlight sickness but I have it bad. Do in part to this thread and others, I just received a Crelant 7G5 - and it is AWESOME - of course I have nothing to compare it to other than a 3d maglight from 20 years ago - not much of a comparison.
> 
> Thanks to everyone - cool place to hang out. Now if I could only figure out what a "pill" is.
> 
> Phil




Its your name without the "h":nana:


----------



## Matt7337

SCEMan said:


> Be sure to post your comments on the DBS ASP setup once you've tried it outside.



I certainly will do! I showed my standard DBS V3 to a neighbour tonight and completely blew his mind  I rarely ever use it around here, so he'd never seen it before. I told him I had something much more impressive on the way and he couldn't quite believe it. Can't wait to blow his mind again with my new aspheric head setup!


----------



## shramj

I ordered the DEFT-edc LR+ on Friday, hopefully it will ship soon. I don't have any of the other DEFT lights but I will post my thoughts on the LR+ once I receive it.


----------



## bigchelis

Electrolumens has a SST-90 Search light with 4in Reflector. Its rated at 130K lux.
http://www.elektrolumens.com/




bigC


----------



## TEEJ

bigchelis said:


> Electrolumens has a SST-90 Search light with 4in Reflector. Its rated at 130K lux.
> http://www.elektrolumens.com/
> 
> Kinda pricey but I would love that bezel as a hosts.
> I think it is Direct Drive and if thats the case I wish it was a 4D size body instead.
> 
> bigC



I think you just pour in a few pounds of 18650s until its full, cap it off and fire it up.


----------



## bigchelis

TEEJ said:


> I think you just pour in a few pounds of 18650s until its full, cap it off and fire it up.




yeah, I think going with 4 18650 cells is really smart move over a single IMR 26650 cell.


I sure hope its regulated for that price though.
What is the drive current to the LED?
What is the voltage input?
What is the cell carrier wirring? 2s2P, 4P, 4S,???


----------



## TEEJ

Wayne explained a lot of that in the CPFM thread on it...if it ever comes back online, you could read the specs.


----------



## brandocommando

The ST90 uses 4 X 18650 in parallel. It is direct drive on high and is reported to be 9A, of course this will vary depending on the batteries used. 

There are 2 switches, one for high and another for a "low" mode. I'm not sure how that works though.


----------



## TEEJ

All in Parallel?

hmmm


----------



## Matt7337

I have a question about the pill in my DBS V3 - Does anyone know the lumen output figures for the various modes of the Dereelight 3SD XR-E R2 pill? Is it about 280 OTF?


----------



## BLUE LED

It's around 205 lumens.


----------



## cccpull

At the FlashlightConnection site they claim 250+ otf lumens driven at 1.5 amps.(reflector version)


----------



## Matt7337

Thanks guys - Mine's the 3SD so it doesn't get driven at 1.5A, I just run it off a single 18650 which I'm led to believe is about 200lm. I'll be running the aspheric setup (R900 pill) at 1.5A off 2x18650s. I "found" the perfect place to do my beamshots today, when I get around to that. It's a forest park close to where I grew up which I hadn't been in for a few years. I was working in a private property within the grounds there today and realized that there's a *massive *expanse of open, flat land in the middle of the park, surrounded by tall trees: 





Excuse the poor quality iPhone picture - it's all I had at the time  Google maps doesn't have satellite imagery of the park for an accurate distance, but from the car park (where that picture was taken) to that treeline in the distance is easily over 500m. I've been at several concerts in the Milton Keynes National Bowl in the past, and I'm pretty sure you could _almost_ fit the MK bowl into this expanse of land. I might go out there for a stroll with a few lights tonight and pace it out. It's absolutely perfect for testing dedicated throwers :thumbsup:


----------



## wiiken

saabluster said:


> Your numbers for that light sound right to me given its size. I ordered one last week just to take a look and see what it does. I'll report back my findings.



Hi, I just got my SMALL SUN ZY-C10-S today, so i will try it tonight and see if it's got any throw.
Did you get yours yet? Im really interrested in what you think about this light and if you would recomend any modifications to get even more throw from it.
Im quite new to this, but im really starting to become a flashoholic


----------



## saabluster

wiiken said:


> Hi, I just got my SMALL SUN ZY-C10-S today, so i will try it tonight and see if it's got any throw.
> Did you get yours yet? Im really interrested in what you think about this light and if you would recomend any modifications to get even more throw from it.
> Im quite new to this, but im really starting to become a flashoholic



Yes I did get mine. It is probably the best throw for the money. The plastic lens is of decent quality if a little bit too long in focal length for my taste. I measured 56K cd which is what I would expect with a light that size. The threads were horrible on my unit but did improve in feel quite a bit after deburring and using a quality lube. The focus action of the head works well enough but it would probably be a bad setup to use on a gun as I would expect the recoil to make the head shift it's focus. The driver has a maddening UI where you have to cycle through a strobe mode. With some modding it could be a pretty good light.


----------



## gcbryan

wiiken said:


> Hi, I just got my SMALL SUN ZY-C10-S today, so i will try it tonight and see if it's got any throw.
> Did you get yours yet? Im really interrested in what you think about this light and if you would recomend any modifications to get even more throw from it.
> Im quite new to this, but im really starting to become a flashoholic



You could drive it harder if you can fashion a heat sink for it. It's quite good as is however. Making it one mode only would be nice as well.

oops...I see Saab was typing faster than I apparently


----------



## gcbryan

saabluster said:


> Yes I did get mine. It is probably the best throw for the money. The plastic lens is of decent quality if a little bit too long in focal length for my taste. I measured 56K cd which is what I would expect with a light that size. The threads were horrible on my unit but did improve in feel quite a bit after deburring and using a quality lube. The focus action of the head works well enough but it would probably be a bad setup to use on a gun as I would expect the recoil to make the head shift it's focus. The driver has a maddening UI where you have to cycle through a strobe mode. With some modding it could be a pretty good light.



Glad to hear you got a similar reading to mine. I wish it was one mode only however it does have memory but it just takes about 1 minute or so for that to kick in. So, if you only use it in high mode...it's always in high mode and you don't have to bother with the strobes.

I don't use it with a gun and I've actually taken it apart and am only using the lens and bezel with another light but you could use a bit of epoxy and convert it into a fixed thrower rather than a "zoom" light. It's not a DEFT  but it is the only flood-to-throw light out there that has at least interested me as a thrower.


----------



## psychbeat

I posted about mine on the prev page 
I crammed a p60 module in with some foil 
I hate the UI and tint but it's an easy host for mods and CHEAP. 
Threads r bad 
I need to get a single mode 1.7a neutral XRE for mine I think. 
P60 modules are way shorter than the stock pill so the best focus is about halfway. 
I'll probably make mine fixed.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

saabluster said:


> Yes I did get mine. It is probably the best throw for the money. The plastic lens is of decent quality if a little bit too long in focal length for my taste. I measured 56K cd which is what I would expect with a light that size. The threads were horrible on my unit but did improve in feel quite a bit after deburring and using a quality lube. The focus action of the head works well enough but it would probably be a bad setup to use on a gun as I would expect the recoil to make the head shift it's focus. The driver has a maddening UI where you have to cycle through a strobe mode. With some modding it could be a pretty good light.



I got mine today and I got number 395 at 10 meters or converted 39500 lux! 

* I use TES 1332A* light meter and it is really good meter, probably one of the best out there...

But also comparing to old Tiablo A9 and DBS with 1,2 amp EZ1000 it throws little less because they really are at 55000 lux territory and this aint...

DBS V3 with R2 EZ900 1SM driver kills it in throw and it look twice as bright...

But as a budget thrower it is really impressive... I never saw something cheap like that throwing that far...

I would not like to mount that on a real gun( it can be mounted on PCP Air rifle without problem)

I agree with all your statements except lux numbers but it is really bang for $...


----------



## BLUE LED

I must be lucky with my Dereelight DBS-T aspheric 1.2A R2 EZ900. I now have 70,000 lux. I have just ordered the 1.5A pill and 18500 extender for more throw


----------



## Streak

BLUE LED said:


> I must be lucky with my Dereelight DBS-T aspheric 1.2A R2 EZ900. I now have 70,000 lux. I have just ordered the 1.5A pill and 18500 extender for more throw



According to Flashlight Connection the DBS T comes standard with the 1.5A pill? Did you have an older model with the 1.2A pill?


----------



## Matt7337

Dereelight have refunded me the priority shipping charge on my recent order because I "didn't provide a telephone number with the order". This information is included on my Paypal contact info along with my address and email address. The note on the refund:

_Hi, phone number requested by fast shipping, we have send a email to you regarding this but no response so far, so send it by registered mail refund the cost by fast shipping, thanks _

I received no such email from them. Not good enough, Dereelight. Now I have to wait over a month for my parcel instead of a couple of weeks max. SIGH.


----------



## BLUE LED

Streak said:


> According to Flashlight Connection the DBS T comes standard with the 1.5A pill? Did you have an older model with the 1.2A pill?



I ordered mine from Dereelight and specifically asked for the 1.2A R2 EZ900 WC. I also bought 3 x P60 1.2A 3SD for my Surefire 6P's by Oveready. I planned on running the DBS-T with a single AW 18650 3100mAh, but now I would like more throw


----------



## AlPal

Matt7337 said:


> Dereelight have refunded me the priority shipping charge on my recent order because I "didn't provide a telephone number with the order". This information is included on my Paypal contact info along with my address and email address. The note on the refund:
> 
> _Hi, phone number requested by fast shipping, we have send a email to you regarding this but no response so far, so send it by registered mail refund the cost by fast shipping, thanks _
> 
> I received no such email from them. Not good enough, Dereelight. Now I have to wait over a month for my parcel instead of a couple of weeks max. SIGH.



I had a similar situation with Dereelight. They e mailed me that my order could not be completed without my telephone number, even though it is included in my PayPal account. I did send them a reply with my number and that was all I needed to do for priority shipping.


----------



## wiiken

The Small Sun is really good, but i want more throw and need it to be suitable for rifle mounting.
I have done some reading here and it looks like DBS V3 is one of the better throwers out there, please correct me if im wrong.
I thought that i should order one now, but it look like its out of stock and they will not sell it anymore... oo:
How about DBS-T, is it better or not?
I tried to understand what setup would be the best when i look around their webpage, but its not very easy i have to say.
When order from Dereelight, do you get a box with parts or is the flashlight assembled and ready for use?

As u see, im a rookie, but i want the best thrower out there  (for a resonable price)


----------



## psychbeat

I just threw a 1.7a neutral XRE p60 module by Nailbender in my Smallsun. 

I left the Smooth reflector on which makes for an ugly beam indoors. 
The funky spill isn't a problem outdoors. 

I wish I had one of Ahortons copper emitter mounts- then I think 2amps would be nice. 

I'm pretty happy with the 1.7a tho. 
Anything above that's probably diminishing returns w/o copper bonding probably. 

The beam looks too ugly indoors to show u guys. 
I use the light outdoors for trail work and routing. 
It outhrows my Ahorton 26mm for sure. 

Fun times!


----------



## BLUE LED

I wanted more throw, so I ordered the Dereelight R2 EZ900 1SM pill (1.5A) and 18500 extender.

I also have 4 x AW IMR 18350 cells coming, as I already have 6 x AW 18500 cells.


----------



## saabluster

Tatjanamagic said:


> I got mine today and I got number 395 at 10 meters or converted 39500 lux!
> 
> * I use TES 1332A* light meter and it is really good meter, probably one of the best out there...
> 
> But also comparing to old Tiablo A9 and DBS with 1,2 amp EZ1000 it throws little less because they really are at 55000 lux territory and this aint...
> 
> DBS V3 with R2 EZ900 1SM driver kills it in throw and it look twice as bright...
> 
> But as a budget thrower it is really impressive... I never saw something cheap like that throwing that far...
> 
> I would not like to mount that on a real gun( it can be mounted on PCP Air rifle without problem)
> 
> I agree with all your statements except lux numbers but it is really bang for $...



The reason the DBS looks almost twice as bright as the Smallsun is because it is As to the meter and our varying measurements? Well there are a couple things to mention here. I highly highly doubt that your meter is calibrated right. I'm sure it is a nice meter but that doesn't mean it is perfect out of the box. Even extremely expensive ones have the same problem. I believe your measurements are little underrated. Of course I doubt mine are perfect either but I have worked hard to see that they match relatively authoritative sources. That aside there is quite likely a good bit of variance light to light in how _they_ perform.


----------



## Bimmerboy

I must say, saabluster... thanks for bringing your expertise to this thread! It's truly been helpful.


----------



## jalcon

I just acquired a SF C2 host bored to 18650. What drop in can I use to get the most throw out of it, while staying around 50 bucks?


----------



## shane45_1911

jalcon said:


> I just acquired a SF C2 host bored to 18650. What drop in can I use to get the most throw out of it, while staying around 50 bucks?




Talk to Dave/Nailbender. He'll make you a 1.4A (or maybe more) XRE which is about the best you can get for throw in a P60 format, without using an aspheric lens.


----------



## jalcon

shane45_1911 said:


> Talk to Dave/Nailbender. He'll make you a 1.4A (or maybe more) XRE which is about the best you can get for throw in a P60 format, without using an aspheric lens.



How many lumens would that be? And how far would it throw approx? Thanks.


----------



## psychbeat

jalcon said:


> How many lumens would that be? And how far would it throw approx? Thanks.



~250+ lumens OTF 12K lux+ I'd guess or more w smooth reflector 

The neutral xre he has is a really nice tint but will have a bit less lumens and throw.


----------



## BLUE LED

Another option is the Dereelight P60 R2 EZ900 1SD module with smooth reflector. I have this setup in a few Surefire 6P's by Oveready.


----------



## saabluster

Bimmerboy said:


> I must say, saabluster... thanks for bringing your expertise to this thread! It's truly been helpful.


 Not sure what I did but thanks.


----------



## Bimmerboy

saabluster said:


> Not sure what I did but thanks.


LOL... just double-checked to make sure I wasn't hallucinating.

You've only been bringing a higher level of accurate info and thought to this discussion for months now! This reduces speculation, the spreading of misconceptions, and ultimately helps us to make better purchasing decisions.

Thanks again for these, and many other excellent posts amongst various threads (loved the wavien recycling thread)! :thumbsup:


----------



## aerosmith9110

I too am waiting for saabluster's possible upgrade for the DBS v3 ASP.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Me also


----------



## BLUE LED

I too am waiting patiently for the DBS upgrade, however I am happy with my newly acquired 1SM pill for my aspheric DBS-T. The highest was 95,500 lux.


----------



## davyro

I've just received my Dereelight CL1H T with extension it has a neutral white XM L with a smooth reflector,i also ordered the DBS T head containing an XR E with smooth reflector.I ordered last Sunday & it arrived in the UK today.I paid for fast
delivery & it was really fast.I've got to say I'm really pleased with the lights & the quality is very good,i own 5 high end lights & these Dereelight parts & flashlight is as good.The whole experience of dealing direct has been very good,i can't praise
them enough.I'm off out now down the coast to try that DBS T head out.Next on the menu is an aspheric head.:naughty:


----------



## shramj

I just got the DEFT LR+ and it is amazing on how far it can throw. It's also the size of an P60 or Olight M20 so it can fit in your pocket. It has a real tight beam on it, all throw, no flood. I love my Surefire Fury & Olight M20 and they are awesome lights but if you want something that can reach the moon and is small in size, look at the DEFT.


----------



## GeoBruin

One of the builds on this thread is mine. I can't wait! I just received shipping notification on my Tenergy Premium cells and Maha charger too!


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Wish there is simple plug and play turbo led mode for my magcharger out there... Terralux sucs...

Magcharger is still best flashlight for home and personal protection- glass breaking and beating rod and flashlight in one so this Varapower II looks interesting...

Good for duty or if you have to walk through dangerous neighborhoods...


----------



## mohanjude

My deft Shortie... Nice and compact - just slightly larger than a Sunwayman v10r Ti2 - 18350 battery


----------



## BLUE LED

That is what I call a compact thrower. Perhaps Michael can make that in a Surefire 3P?


----------



## Matt7337

Well guys, I finally got the aspheric setup for my DBS last week, and I was *not* disappointed! It's an awesome upgrade to the DBS and I've already had it out at the afforementioned test site, lighting up objects way out at about 350m in pitch blackness and illuminating reflectors beyond that. In the suburb where I live there is street lighting and therefore a lot of light pollution, but I can still faintly light up houses on a hill directly across from our house, standing on our front porch. The distance from our door to what I'm lighting up is around 330-340m from a Google maps calculation taken from this google maps distance calculator. 

I haven't had a chance to take it out to the lake yet or to photograph beamshots, but I have had it at the forest park several times, along with my TK11, Olight M20, DBS V1, Malkoff M61 C2 and several other smaller 1x123A lights. An interesting observation I made with my raft of single 18650 lights was that aside from the Malkoff engined C2, the R5 M20 Warrior with an LOP reflector is the best "area illuminator" that I own, whilst still providing a decent amount of throw to spot objects out in front of me. The TK11 has too focused a hotspot with too dim a spill beam, and the DBS V1 is obviously the same. For lighting up the whole area of roads and paths in front of me as I walked through the forest in pitch darkness to get to the clearing, the M20 was only surpassed by the amazing M61 in my Surefire C2. I woke up a few bats on those trips, obviously not because of the light but probably the sound of my hiking boots on the path 

Beamshots and maybe even some video to come!


----------



## Draven451

Matt7337,

Thanks for your feedback on the DBS aspheric. I look forward to beamshots and maybe some videos!

I received my Dereelight DBS-T XR-E EZ900 from flashlight connection yesterday. I'm thrilled with the performance. I only did minimal testing but I was able to shine the beam around my neighborhood at known distances of over 1,100 feet that I calculated previously on google. This light can easily exceed those distances. 

What an amazing thrower and something every enthusiast needs in their arsenal if they are looking for a great thrower in a small/upgrade-able package! :thumbsup:


----------



## ma_sha1

*My dedicated throwers:* (Photo by WadeF @ PF18)


----------



## Draven451

ma_sha1 said:


> *My dedicated throwers:* (Photo by WadeF @ PF18)


I didn't know that photon beams were allowed in this category! 

Show off~* :twothumbs


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Matt7337 said:


> Well guys, I finally got the aspheric setup for my DBS last week, and I was *not* disappointed! It's an awesome upgrade to the DBS and I've already had it out at the afforementioned test site, lighting up objects way out at about 350m in pitch blackness and illuminating reflectors beyond that.



Which emitter/driver do you use in DBS aspheric setup?

Ma sha1 has light canons  Now that is killing throw... Over 500kcd?


----------



## ma_sha1

Tatjanamagic said:


> Ma sha1 has light canons  Now that is killing throw... Over 500kcd?



Much more than 500kcd . They are my pair of short arcs, one is 5,000 kcd & the other 16,100kcd. The distance is about half a mile to tree top known as the "black hole" behind Milky's house. For years at PF events, no lights could lit it up. Polarian or Surefire hell fighter both failed. There is a faint yellow spot to the right, that's BVH 85W HID in 9" Blitz host. That was the previous King of black hole, I remember seeing a post it beat out MaxaBeam in a previous PF event.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Outstandig...


----------



## Matt7337

Tatjanamagic said:


> Which emitter/driver do you use in DBS aspheric setup?
> 
> Ma sha1 has light canons  Now that is killing throw... Over 500kcd?



I'm running the R900 1SM module at 1.5A with the 18650 extender, as per mohanjudes advice in my 'Help/advice on upgrading DBS V3' thread


----------



## srazeq

for a cheap amazing thrower Aurora WF 600 it throws like a laser when using 2 CR123A.

more expensive Olight M3x and Tiablo A9 R2 led


----------



## Oztorchfreak

Tatjanamagic said:


> Which emitter/driver do you use in DBS aspheric setup?
> 
> Ma sha1 has light canons  Now that is killing throw... Over 500kcd?




I have the Dereelight DBS-T XR-E EZ900 2MT-M Aspherical setup.

The best LED for the aspherical for throw is the EZ900 driven at 1.5A.

Get the multi battery version and use either the 18500 extender or the 18650 battery extenders to give it enough voltage to drive the EZ900 LED and the extra batteries will give you longer runtime. 

You need the multi battery extenders or else the EZ900 LED only runs at 1.2A instead of 1.5A where you get maximum brightness.

Mine is multi mode head as well giving you Hi, Med and Lo if you change to another head and reflector like my T6 Pill and the smooth reflector for when I don't need the aspherical setup.

With the Aspherical head on this light you will have no real need for Med and Lo.


Cheers


----------



## davyro

I've been that impressed with my DBS T with XRE & my CL1H with XML i've got the edc C2H with XRE & smooth reflector so i've got a nice little thrower i can carry anywhere


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Oztorchfreak said:


> I have the Dereelight DBS-T XR-E EZ900 2MT-M Aspherical setup.
> 
> The best LED for the aspherical for throw is the EZ900 driven at 1.5A.
> 
> Get the multi battery version and use either the 18500 extender or the 18650 battery extenders to give it enough voltage to drive the EZ900 LED and the extra batteries will give you longer runtime.
> 
> You need the multi battery extenders or else the EZ900 LED only runs at 1.2A instead of 1.5A where you get maximum brightness.
> 
> Mine is multi mode head as well giving you Hi, Med and Lo if you change to another head and reflector like my T6 Pill and the smooth reflector for when I don't need the aspherical setup.
> 
> With the Aspherical head on this light you will have no real need for Med and Lo.
> 
> 
> Cheers



I asked Matt7337 which emitter/driver does he use in DBS aspheric setup because he said that it throws only 350 meters... With 1,5amp EZ900 throws much more than that so I was thinking that he has 1,2 amp pill because even old ez1000 at 1,2 amp throws that far...

Friend I was probably first person in a world having new 1SM 1,5 EZ900 pill  and I started this debate for DBS aspherical flashlight at the beginning of this thread.

And as U said for aspherical flashlight assembly no need for multimode driver. Simple 1SM with tube extender is enough for guys who just want aspherical flashlight setup.

Thanks for advice it will be very useful for forum members.


----------



## Gregozedobe

Oztorchfreak said:


> The best LED for the aspherical for throw is the EZ900 driven at 1.5A.



That may be the "best" that Dereelight offers, but you can buy EZ900 R2's driven at 2.1A (and only needing one 18650 too) from vinhnguyen54 over at the marketplace (and I have an idea that Nailbender may offer an XR-E drop-in as well). 

That is one of the good things about the Dereelights, they take a std P60 pill (minus the reflector for the aspheric head versions), so different pills can be used to suit your purpose/s.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Someone already tried that and it is not EZ900 R2 and throws less than stock deerelight.

Search for that in this thread it is around page 20

And I guarantee you that 2,1 amp EZ900 driven at 1× 18650 will not give you full brightness(power will start droping after only few minutes) for a long time especially if you use Crapyfire brands...

So consider to buy buck drivers that can run up to 16V current.


----------



## cccpull

Gregozedobe said:


> That may be the "best" that Dereelight offers, but you can buy EZ900 R2's driven at 2.1A (and only needing one 18650 too) from vinhnguyen54 over at the marketplace (and I have an idea that Nailbender may offer an XR-E drop-in as well).



Has anyone measured the output of the Dereelight aspheric with the XR-E driven at 2.1? 
Also, I believe Nailbender commented that there wasn't much advantage in driving the XR-E past 1.4 amps. But I could be wrong.:shrug:


----------



## jwyj

I am a fan of throwers too. :thumbsup:
Here are some of my throwers, I have MC-E, SST-50, R2, R5s, warm, cool, and some XM-Ls in them. Plus 1 small orange 6P size.













Closer look at the triple heads+small head.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Nice! Bunch of Tiablo A9 and DBS heads


----------



## wiiken

Hi, im planning to order Dereelight Night Master(Aspherical) , with extender for 2x 18650, anyone here that have tried it? Is that a good thrower really, or is there some other flashlight that can be better?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Wiiken U did not read a word about this flashlight on CPF  Millions and tons of reviews of this flashlight on CPF and you are like parachute jumper on CPF.


----------



## psychbeat

I'm kinda wanting a de-domed XML running ~3.5a w a SMO reflector. 
P60 module. 
My domed SMO XMLs throw surprisingly well especially @3.5a
I'm wondering how much I would gain by de-doming?

And my neutral XRE 1.7a modded Smallsun is KILLING it!
I left the reflector on so the beam is ugly but doesn't bother me outside.


----------



## SCEMan

cccpull said:


> Has anyone measured the output of the Dereelight aspheric with the XR-E driven at 2.1?
> Also, I believe Nailbender commented that there wasn't much advantage in driving the XR-E past 1.4 amps. But I could be wrong.:shrug:



I have a 2.1A EZ900 in my DBS ASP and its stronger than the 1.5A I had previously (can't compare side-by-side though). With the solid heatsinking in the ASP head (and plenty of Arctic Silver on the pill/bezel threads) I'm not worried about overheating. Don't see any drop-off with AW & ReadiLast 18650s, but then I don't run this light for long periods...


----------



## wiiken

Tatjanamagic said:


> Wiiken U did not read a word about this flashlight on CPF  Millions and tons of reviews of this flashlight on CPF and you are like parachute jumper on CPF.



Sorry about that, what i try to understand is if XR-E EZ900 Q5 is as good as XR-E R2.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

It should be same throw or even little better than R2 EZ900 all depends on lenses lottery.

I have tiablo A9 Q5 and A9 R2 with EZ1000 die but Q5 outthrows R2 but not much...


----------



## wiiken

Tatjanamagic said:


> It should be same throw or even little better than R2 EZ900 all depends on lenses lottery.
> 
> I have tiablo A9 Q5 and A9 R2 with EZ1000 die but Q5 outthrows R2 but not much...



Ok, thanks. I will order a Nightmaster asap


----------



## rufus001

wiiken said:


> Ok, thanks. I will order a Nightmaster asap


My Nightmaster is giving me over 80k lux so I'm happy with it.


----------



## psychbeat

Just got a PAlight 123 EDC SS
It has a smooth reflector and XPE that seems to be driven Hard. 
Shocking throw for a small quark mini123 sized light. 
strange little guy. 
Mines a neutral- ~4500-5000k I'd guess.


----------



## BLUE LED

I am very happy with my Thrunite TN31 and looking forward to more info on the Olight SR95UT. I am assuming that UT stands for Ultimate Thrower.


----------



## Sparky's Magic

My Malkoff MD3 Hound Dog XP-G. with 2X18500 AW. cells throws and it is a good sized hot-spot out to about 250yds. In a truly dark situation, it throws a lot further but I'm not in total dark often: This is all I need and I couldn't be happier!


----------



## jh333233

Overdriving an EZ900 @2.1A
Wouldnt it die off soon?


----------



## TEEJ

Sparky's Magic said:


> My Malkoff MD3 Hound Dog XP-G. with 2X18500 AW. cells throws and it is a good sized hot-spot out to about 250yds. In a truly dark situation, it throws a lot further but I'm not in total dark often: This is all I need and I couldn't be happier!




LOL

Lucky then that you don't need a dedicated thrower like the ones discussed in this thread.


----------



## BLUE LED

Now now that's naughty. Just because it throws less than a Maelstrom G5. It's still better than nothing.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

I know that Deerelight factory is testing new EZ1000 R2 driven at 2 amp current.

For now throw goes 90 000 lux...

So if that will work out throw will be same as old one with bigger die...


----------



## Oztorchfreak

Tatjanamagic said:


> I know that Deerelight factory is testing new EZ1000 R2 driven at 2 amp current.
> 
> For now throw goes 90 000 lux...
> 
> So if that will work out throw will be same as old one with bigger die...



Why put out a thrower that puts out the same amount of lux with the bigger die?

I have the Dereelight Aspheric DBS-T EZ900 with multi mode and multiple batteries and it really throws already.

I think I now prefer my Thrunite TN31 because it gets used more and has useful spill as well as being a monster thrower.

Aspherics have their place but are in a specialty area.

If they make a pill with a bigger lux rating it should be just a case of buying the new pill and fitting it.

LEGO STYLE with Dereelight!!



Cheers


----------



## BLUE LED

I must admit, I am really liking my Thrunite TN31 in combination of my Dereelight DBS aspheric EZ900 R2.

I am waiting for Michael's DBS upgrade


----------



## TEEJ

Oztorchfreak said:


> Why put out a thrower that puts out the same amount of lux with the bigger die?
> 
> I have the Dereelight Aspheric DBS-T EZ900 with multi mode and multiple batteries and it really throws already.
> 
> I think I now prefer my Thrunite TN31 because it gets used more and has useful spill as well as being a monster thrower.
> 
> Aspherics have their place but are in a specialty area.
> 
> If they make a pill with a bigger lux rating it should be just a case of buying the new pill and fitting it.
> 
> LEGO STYLE with Dereelight!!
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers



The primary advantage (To the same lux with a larger die) might be the same throw, but with more light on the target, so as to see a larger surface area at the same range.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Yes... Like Teej said...

If there is no EZ900 they must compensate throw somehow... 

But I think high current drivers are not solution... 

Solution would be that CREE engineers listen to flashlight manufacturers and their needs and made emitters to their demands... 

But maybe things in aspherical world come to dead point without improvements...

But of course few experts like Saabluster can squeeze more juice than factory so that would be only hope...


While things in reflector throwers world are improving everyday (TN31 & Olight SR95) in aspherical world I would say improving stopped and even downgraded... 

And when I look backwards no real improvements since 2008... Just slightly tuning of stuff...


----------



## cccpull

Maybe they'll also increase the head/lens size to make up for the bigger die.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

No they will not... 

Current lenses are the very best they could get.

They tried several other lenses but this are the best...

With Nightmaster better QC of lenses also


----------



## Ragnar66

Anyone know anything bout the new Deerlight Nightmaster? Mines on its way......


----------



## Tiresius

Tatjanamagic said:


> But maybe things in aspherical world come to dead point without improvements...



I think someone has patent on the aspherical idea onto flashlights already...Not too sure but I remember seeing a patent about focusing the emitter with a parabolic lens. Or maybe it was controlling the emitter's light before entering through the parabolic lens with something else. Can someone correct me here?


----------



## TEEJ

Tiresius said:


> I think someone has patent on the aspherical idea onto flashlights already...Not too sure but I remember seeing a patent about focusing the emitter with a parabolic lens. Or maybe it was controlling the emitter's light before entering through the parabolic lens with something else. Can someone correct me here?



That was me of course.

Here a is a pic of my Zebralight SC600 Aspheric Prototype:







Note the Large hot spot/LED projection on the wall, by simply shining the stock SC600 through a magnifying loupe. 

:nana:


----------



## davyro

Tiresius said:


> I think someone has patent on the aspherical idea onto flashlights already...Not too sure but I remember seeing a patent about focusing the emitter with a parabolic lens. Or maybe it was controlling the emitter's light before entering through the parabolic lens with something else. Can someone correct me here?



I know Led Lenser have a patent on there zoomable aspheric lens.I'm not sure if thats what your talking about though but it might be.


----------



## TEEJ

davyro said:


> I know Led Lenser have a patent on there zoomable aspheric lens.I'm not sure if thats what your talking about though but it might be.



IIRC, that's just on the nifty push/pull zoom mechanism, which btw I like very much.



If mine had 5x the output, I'd still carry it.


----------



## rufus001

jvc55349 said:


> Anyone know anything bout the new Deerlight Nightmaster? Mines on its way......



Very nice aspheric thrower. I get 80k lux from mine.


----------



## mikesantor

Almost a month with no posts?!?!



I wanted to get some opinions from you guys on a new build im doing. Last year I set out to build a big thrower (big like physical size/big batteries) But before I did I tested a few lights with a p60 setup with ahortons lens. I tested a XRE EZ900 and a SST90. I wanted a nice balance of nice throw but also output. I was very unsatisfied with the output of the XRE. It definatly out threw the rest but the output was just too low for what I liked. Then I tried the SST90 and loved it. great throw and great output. So to make a long story short I ended up building (having built) a 3D Mag with MG aspheric lens and NB SST90 pushing around 1250 lumens. It was perfect for what I needed. Plenty of throw but still bright as hell. Well after a few short months, I really was not digging the Nimh batteries. I ended up selling the mag. 

Now im ready to do this again. The new host is going to be a Fivemega Magalenium 3x 18650 body with a lumens factory seraph head and MG aspheric lens. So Im back at looking at emitters. 

Do you guys think there is anything else emitter wise that you would suggest for getting big lumen output besides the SST90? I know the SST50 has a smaller die but from the research I have done, most people that use a 50 for aspheric set ups end up wishing they used the 90 because you dont get THAT much more throw with the smaller emitter but you get a lot less lumen output. I thought about maybe an XML U2 as well But I still keep coming back to the fact that I can push the SST90 at around 1500 lumens for a decent amount of time with the 3 2900mah 18650s. 

Anyone have any thoughts on this? should I just keep with the old setup that I liked in the SST90 or should I look into something else?


----------



## BLUE LED

You could use the newer SBT-90 LED. Go for the higher bin one.


----------



## mikesantor

I have briefly looked at the SBTs. What do they offer offer over the SST90? They put out about half the lumens. From reading the technical specs, it looks like there would not be much of a difference in an aspherical setup when comparing the SBT to the XML. They both but out about the same lumens and from what I remember reading the die size is about the same. Thoughts?

Also, Do you think it would be worth it to de dome whatever LED I use? I have read a bit about de doming giving more throw but have never read anything about negative side effects of doing it...


----------



## Alex1234

mikesantor said:


> I have briefly looked at the SBTs. What do they offer offer over the SST90? They put out about half the lumens. From reading the technical specs, it looks like there would not be much of a difference in an aspherical setup when comparing the SBT to the XML. They both but out about the same lumens and from what I remember reading the die size is about the same. Thoughts?
> 
> Also, Do you think it would be worth it to de dome whatever LED I use? I have read a bit about de doming giving more throw but have never read anything about negative side effects of doing it...



The new sbt-90 led should out throw the xml by a good amount because it does not have a dome. Which is a huge plus in a thrower. Just look at the olight sr95ut has a sbt90 led it gets 200,000 lux at 1050 lumans while the sr95 with the sst90 puts out 2000 lumans bit gets only 110,000 lux.


----------



## mikesantor

Alex1234 said:


> The new sbt-90 led should out throw the xml by a good amount because does not have a dome. Which is a huge plus in a thrower. Just look at the olight sr95ut has a bt90 led it gets 200,000 lux at 1050 lumans while the sr95 with the sst90 puts out 2000 lumans bit gets only 110,000 lux.



Thanks for the insight Alex. I'm curious what a dedone sst90 would do lux wise.


----------



## Alex1234

mikesantor said:


> Thanks for the insight Alex. I'm curious what a dedone sst90 would do lux wise.



The sbt-90 is essentially a sst-90 led that is de-domed. There is a dome per say on the sbt-90 its just square and flat. It cant be drivin as hard because of the lake of the big dome because if you dedome a sst 90 led it puts it at a much greater risk of failure. but if u you managed to dedome an sst90 led it should almost double the throw.


----------



## The_Driver

Alex1234 said:


> The new sbt-90 led should out throw the xml by a good amount because it does not have a dome. Which is a huge plus in a thrower. Just look at the olight sr95ut has a sbt90 led it gets 200,000 lux at 1050 lumans while the sr95 with the sst90 puts out 2000 lumans bit gets only 110,000 lux.



The UT does 165,000 I believe...


----------



## Alex1234

The_Driver said:


> The UT does 165,000 I believe...



selfbuilt retested it with another light meter he has and got 198,000 lux i believe.


----------



## The_Driver

Alex1234 said:


> selfbuilt retested it with another light meter he has and got 198,000 lux i believe.



I hadn't seen that yet. Sorry.
I just looked at his review again. He used too different meters and got different values. Both of the meters are not calibrated. He is still waiting for his calibrated one too arrive.

I don't know what distance he measures at, but if it's only 1m than the values are unrealistic. Big reflectored lights need to be measured at distances farther away.

Take a look at these lux measurements I did with some other members of a German forum last weekend. We measured at a distance of 4m. In this post member BLUE LED mentions that his Varapower Turbo (de-domed) outthrows his SR-95 UT. All of this together makes me think that Selfbuilt's newly measured values are not as accurate as the old ones.


----------



## BLUE LED

My Varapower Turbo de-domed SST-90, 6500K does throw further than both of my Olight’s SR95UT. The number of my second unit is C089766. I think it is important to note that to achieve over drive status, the VPT requires four high quality NiMH C cells to obtain maximum throw. Lesser cells will yield less throw.

What I find interesting is that Kevin is now offering the VPT with the SBT-90. I would speculate that this would be the best VPT thrower.


----------



## wiiken

I have been looking around CPF for what batteries to use in my Dereelight Night Master.
Is 3400mAh Panasonic NCR18650B a good alternative or should i use some other model?
I want the best battery and protected of course.

What do you use?


----------



## mikesantor

So I just got done reading the whole " Olight SR95 (SST-90) & SR95UT (SBT-90) Review:" thread by selfbuilt. Im still not understanding this. Funny part is someone else asked early on in the thread and no one answered him. 

If the SBT-90 is an SST90 die with just a clear film in lui of a dome, why is it darn near half the output? 

Would de doming an SST90 be the sole reason for a 50% decrease in output?


----------



## [email protected]

mikesantor said:


> So I just got done reading the whole " Olight SR95 (SST-90) & SR95UT (SBT-90) Review:" thread by selfbuilt. Im still not understanding this. Funny part is someone else asked early on in the thread and no one answered him.



Yes they did in post #937 :thumbsup:



mikesantor said:


> If the SBT-90 is an SST90 die with just a clear film in lui of a dome, why is it darn near half the output?
> 
> Would de doming an SST90 be the sole reason for a 50% decrease in output?






Alex1234 said:


> The sbt-90 is essentially a sst-90 led that is de-domed. There is a dome per say on the sbt-90 its just square and flat. *It cant be drivin as hard because of the lake of the big dome because if you dedome a sst 90 led it puts it at a much greater risk of failure.*




Removing the dome appears to effect both the beam and thermal characteristics of the emitter


----------



## mikesantor

No friggin clue how I missed that....

Thanks!

Still at a cross roads. Don't know if I want to go de domed sst-90 or sbt-90... 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Tatjanamagic

wiiken said:


> I have been looking around CPF for what batteries to use in my Dereelight Night Master.
> Is 3400mAh Panasonic NCR18650B a good alternative or should i use some other model?
> I want the best battery and protected of course.
> 
> What do you use?



Very good battery... 

But Night Master can run with ext tube, and 2× cheapest 18650 batteries(crappyfires) more than 1,30 hours...

If U put quality batteries it will be well over 2 hours...


----------



## wiiken

Tatjanamagic said:


> Very good battery...
> 
> But Night Master can run with ext tube, and 2× cheapest 18650 batteries(crappyfires) more than 1,30 hours...
> 
> If U put quality batteries it will be well over 2 hours...




Ok, i will hopefully get the batteries this week so i can try. I use the extension tube all the time for maximum output  I will compare Nightmaster and my SMALL SUN ZY-C10-S this weekend, my first impression of the Nightmaster is that is isn't so much more powerful than SMALL SUN ZY-C10-S...but i havent tried them side by side yet....


----------



## Swedpat

I am very impressed with Fenix TK50. 
The bad thing is that I was misfortunate in the tint lottery; it's nasty greenish. Even if this is mostly not noticable at the highest mode in the hotspot because of the high intensity it's still noticable in the spill. And using the lower modes at short distance I don't even consider, have to attach some filter to get rid of the greenish.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

wiiken said:


> Ok, i will hopefully get the batteries this week so i can try. I use the extension tube all the time for maximum output  I will compare Nightmaster and my SMALL SUN ZY-C10-S this weekend, my first impression of the Nightmaster is that is isn't so much more powerful than SMALL SUN ZY-C10-S...but i havent tried them side by side yet....



Friend I am sorry that I have to tell you that... but you have to buy glasses  

It is 90 kcd vs 35kcd

Like Mike Tyson vs Oscar De La Hoya

I have both and small sun is in my third flashlight closet that I never open... Terrible flashlight... Needs tons of modding in order to become good flashlight...


----------



## Oztorchfreak

Tatjanamagic said:


> Friend I am sorry that I have to tell you that... but you have to buy glasses
> 
> It is 90 kcd vs 35kcd
> 
> Like Mike Tyson vs Oscar De La Hoya
> 
> I have both and small sun is in my third flashlight closet that I never open... Terrible flashlight... Needs tons of modding in order to become good flashlight...





I have the *Dereelight DBS-T EZ900 Aspherical* which is what you have under a different sales name.

It really gets out and can nearly keep up with my *Olight SR90* but in a very small shaped beam.

I do love it.

It is a *special purpose light* and is great for stealthy stuff or mounting on a rifle.

*It is not designed as a general purpose light.*

It does have a *WOW* factor for a *3W light* every time I show it to people for fun mainly.

It is every bit as good as my *Crelant 7G5V2 with the Collimator* except the Crelant *projected image is about twice the width and height as my Dereelight.*

The *Crelant 7G5V2 with the collimator* attached is not a general purpose light to carry except for spotting targets in the bush etc.

*Without the collimator* it seems about level up in the *700 to 900 lumens area* to have a beam shape similar to my *Olight SR50*, *SR51* and *M3X* and makes for a pretty good general purpose *combination of throw and flood.*

My *Thrunite TN31* kills all of those at *1170 lumens of pure white throw power,* no sign of yellows or greens anywhere in the beam.

It is a *short length 4 x 18650 higher body width thrower* that is great.

I have not seen another *single XM-L U2* beat this *TN31* in *throw or sheer output!
*
It really is quite a *beast* in throw and output.



Cheers


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

So, still no news on Saabluster making the mod for the DBS Aspheric available?
Have been very tempted by the Olight SR95UT, but, very expensive and the size is WAY too big for what, only another 50% ish increase in throw distance over the DBS?

Such a shame. I live in hope of Saabluster making this one happen


----------



## cccpull

Anyone know if the Crelant 7G9 will out throw the 7G5V2 with collimator lens?


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

cccpull said:


> Anyone know if the Crelant 7G9 will out throw the 7G5V2 with collimator lens?





As I understand it, the 7G9 has around 70k lux, but the 7G5V2 with collimator lens has around 90k lux, so no, the 7G9 does not out throw it.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> So, still no news on Saabluster making the mod for the DBS Aspheric available?
> Have been very tempted by the Olight SR95UT, but, very expensive and the size is WAY too big for what, only another 50% ish increase in throw distance over the DBS?
> 
> Such a shame. I live in hope of Saabluster making this one happen




I do too!

There is a difference of about $400 between them.

But the bigger and heavier Olight SR95UT also puts some flood out as well, the Dereelight Aspherical with EZ900 LED is like a laser beam and very thin in beam width.


Cheers


----------



## Oztorchfreak

*Looking for Modded Maglite that is powerful, throws well, a little spill & reliable.*


I have a *4D Maglight* with the *TerraLUX MiniStar31M-EX LED Conversion Kit for 4-6 D Cell MagLites up to 1000 Lumens (TLE-310M-EX) TerraLUX MiniStar31M-EX LED Conversion Kit for 4-6 D Cell MagLites up to 1000 Lumens (TLE-310M-EX)* installed and it has *three modes* and is *pretty bright* but it is* nearly all flood*.

I would like to know where or who I can get a *Maglite that has been modded* to put out a great throw beam with a little flood *(to see where you are going still)* beam *reliably* and *without overheating with a reasonable runtime?*

I have seen plenty of *Mag mods* but has anyone discovered the *best mod* so that the *Mag still looks mostly like a standard Maglite?*

*I have the TK70, Olight SR90, TN31 and Dereelight DBS-T EZ900 Asherical* amongst some others already.

The *3D LED Maglite* is very spotty but not nearly enough lumens or lux to be of real use to a Flashaholic.

I would like to get a *Varapower Turbo V2* light but orders are closed as far as I can tell.

When going to the *Varapower website* I get this message displayed *"The Custom Build List is CLOSED.

Sorry, but we are not accepting any more custom build requests at this time" *most times that I look at the website.

I have run both my *Olight SR90 and the Fenix Tk70 continuously for over an hour* *(TK70 running 4 x NIMH 9500mah LSDs)* each on the *MAXIMUM BRIGHTNESS* and *never have any battery or overheating issues*, but I believe that the *Varapower range has shorter runtimes and conditions for using them.*

I would like a* Varapower in a 3D format* as that is the *High Quality D size NIMH 9500mah LSDs* I already have *plenty of.*

*How long does it usually take* for them to start making *CUSTOM MADE* orders again?

*Correct me if I am wrong but does that mean they don't have any standard stock lights except for the custom made ones where you select all of your options?
*
*Update *- I just received advice to look in the *LEDs section* on that website, but there are no *3D size format* lights for sale.

I am already *crying* about it.



*Cheers*


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

*Re: Looking for Modded Maglite that is powerful, throws well, a little spill & reliab*



Oztorchfreak said:


> *Correct me if I am wrong but does that mean they don't have any standard stock lights except for the custom made ones where you select all of your options?
> *
> 
> 
> *Cheers*



On the lambdalights home page, click on 'LED Flashlights' top left. He puts flashlights for sale in there. There was a nice Varapower Turbo II SBT-90 on there last time I looked.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

*Re: Looking for Modded Maglite that is powerful, throws well, a little spill & reliab*



luminositykilledthecat... said:


> On the lambdalights home page, click on 'LED Flashlights' top left. He puts flashlights for sale in there. There was a nice Varapower Turbo II SBT-90 on there last time I looked.




Thanks for that advice, I will check it* immediately!*



*CHEERS*


----------



## saabluster

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> So, still no news on Saabluster making the mod for the DBS Aspheric available?
> Have been very tempted by the Olight SR95UT, but, very expensive and the size is WAY too big for what, only another 50% ish increase in throw distance over the DBS?
> 
> Such a shame. I live in hope of Saabluster making this one happen



Limited time and limited money. It is in the plans still. I am about to release three new lights that will all beat the DBS though so don't worry. Possibly as soon as next week.


----------



## Tiresius

Did anyone de-domed their crelant and slap the colimator head on with 2xIMR cells? Would love to see a beamshot of that.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

saabluster said:


> Limited time and limited money. It is in the plans still. I am about to release three new lights that will all beat the DBS though so don't worry. Possibly as soon as next week.



If they will throw more than 150 kcd U will beat new Deerelight aspheric(bigger aspherical head)...


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

:bow::bow::bow:


saabluster said:


> Limited time and limited money. It is in the plans still. I am about to release three new lights that will all beat the DBS though so don't worry. Possibly as soon as next week.



Holy jesus that is fantastic news. Well done!
Can't wait for the details, when can I order 
Thank the lord I resisted the olight.


----------



## BLUE LED

Any ideas on estimated lux on the DBS aspheric killer?


----------



## saabluster

Tiresius said:


> Did anyone de-domed their crelant and slap the colimator head on with 2xIMR cells? Would love to see a beamshot of that.


I bought a Crelant 7G5 to mod but it died before I ever had a chance to do it. Grr. Smells like the driver burned up. It was running on two IMR cells at the time. I have to say I was more than a little let down by that light given the hype surrounding it. Good build quality and the reflector was nice but the aspherical lens quality was majorly lacking. In a sample size of only one I have no idea if mine represents the top or the bottom of the barrel though. 



Tatjanamagic said:


> If they will throw more than 150 kcd U will beat new Deerelight aspheric(bigger aspherical head)...


 Two of them are under that. One is well over that. 




luminositykilledthecat... said:


> :bow::bow::bow:
> 
> Holy jesus that is fantastic news. Well done!
> Can't wait for the details, when can I order
> Thank the lord I resisted the olight.


Shooting for this week. 





BLUE LED said:


> Any ideas on estimated lux on the DBS aspheric killer?


The smaller aspheric(smaller than the DBS aspheric) will have performance of just over 100Kcd. The most powerful light I will carry will be north of 200Kcd. Without the need for an aspheric! Exact specs will be released when the new site goes live. Hint. These are not OMG branded lights.


----------



## rufus001

saabluster said:


> ...The most powerful light I will carry will be north of 200Kcd. Without the need for an aspheric!...


Bring it on!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

saabluster said:


> The smaller aspheric(smaller than the DBS aspheric) will have performance of just over 100Kcd. The most powerful light I will carry will be north of 200Kcd. Without the need for an aspheric! Exact specs will be released when the new site goes live. Hint. These are not OMG branded lights.



Oh happy days, happy days.


----------



## MontanaMan

Man, there are some serious light physicists up in here. Anyhow, I have 2 SR95UT lights, and they do very well for me. They are my throwers. Then I have the SR95 SST-90, and some Niteye EYE-30 and EYE40s for the flood/throw combo. I love the feel of the Niteye lights when the handle is installed. From there I will build my collection as I learn. I use my lights every day to scan for mountain lion, bear, wolves, and any other critter that passes through my property looking to snack on a nice fat turkey. I raise Bourbon Red Heritage birds, and some do not pen up at night.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Here's one for you boys.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Here's one more.


----------



## Tiresius

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Here's one more.



What kind of light is that? It's got the incan tint but doesn't look like an incan. Is it backed by a boom reflector?


----------



## Light Mage

I have the fenix tk70 and this light t is extremely bright and throws quits well. It is a little large and heavy but for use in the woods camping I don't mind the size with the amount of light it puts out


----------



## enomosiki

saabluster said:


> The smaller aspheric(smaller than the DBS aspheric) will have performance of just over 100Kcd. The most powerful light I will carry will be north of 200Kcd. Without the need for an aspheric! Exact specs will be released when the new site goes live. Hint. These are not OMG branded lights.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

enomosiki said:


>



Indeed! The wait is killing me........


----------



## Tatjanamagic

saabluster said:


> I bought a Crelant 7G5 to mod but it died before I ever had a chance to do it. Grr. Smells like the driver burned up. It was running on two IMR cells at the time. I have to say I was more than a little let down by that light given the hype surrounding it. Good build quality and the reflector was nice but the aspherical lens quality was majorly lacking. In a sample size of only one I have no idea if mine represents the top or the bottom of the barrel though.



I believe that your driver burned on silly way because I have plenty of bad experience with that as 7G5 is Tiablo flashlight and it suffers from same child disease as Tiablo A9. 

Tiablo A9 was rated as a 2,5- 10V flashlight which can take 2×rcr123(16340) so situation was when you have put 2×RCR123 3,7V U gain more power from this flashlight but also plenty of burned drivers with this type of batteries. 

Some of A9 died instantly, and some of them were dying slowly in a week to month of use... U can easily repair this by putting driver in direct drive mode but then U loose power and runtime because it only works on 1×18650 then.

I was sick of that so I start ordering rcr123 rated to 3V only and from then I had no problems with burned drivers. But until I figured that out I(people I sold flashlight to) burned more than 5 drivers.

I want to say that 795 continues "current lying" tradition of older brother A9 so run it on low voltage batteries if you want them alive... 

And yes it can not out throw DBS aspheric EZ 900like some members said... But however it is close... 

And I have to say very poor and soft aluminium without anodized threads even worse than old A9...


----------



## Tiresius

Saabluster, how about a teaser picture of the beamshot or lux readings comparing your older ones to the new one being released? That'll rouse up some excitement.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

Anyone have anything to say about the Streamlight Super Tac X? is there anything else smaller that throws better? (40,000lux)


----------



## saabluster

ScaryFatKidGT said:


> Anyone have anything to say about the Streamlight Super Tac X? is there anything else smaller that throws better? (40,000lux)



How about the same size but almost 3 times the throw? I'm hurrying as fast as I can to get the site up. It is a lot of work. At least for someone of my meager web building abilities.


----------



## Tiresius

saabluster said:


> I'm hurrying as fast as I can to get the site up. It is a lot of work. At least for someone of my meager web building abilities.



I remembered that at my webpage design class...Same issue you had, except I failed every timed test. Evidently, those F's became permanent and I failed the class


----------



## saabluster

Tiresius said:


> Saabluster, how about a teaser picture of the beamshot or lux readings comparing your older ones to the new one being released? That'll rouse up some excitement.



Teaser? How about a cropped thermal image of one of the lights. Just north of 100Kcd. The light on the right has been modded by me and has significantly better thermal characteristics as you can readily see. The one on the left is stock but is running almost exactly the same current so the cooler surface temps mean the heat is trapped inside the light reducing both output and lifetimes.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

saabluster said:


> How about the same size but almost 3 times the throw? I'm hurrying as fast as I can to get the site up. It is a lot of work. At least for someone of my meager web building abilities.


Without an asphyeric? (with is cool too but is a different light)


----------



## ahorton

saabluster said:


> How about the same size but almost 3 times the throw?



3x 40K cp = 120K cp ?
or actually 3x the throw:
3^2 x 40K cp = 360K cp ?

Definitely hoping you mean the latter!


----------



## mohanjude

saabluster said:


> How about the same size but almost 3 times the throw? I'm hurrying as fast as I can to get the site up. It is a lot of work. At least for someone of my meager web building abilities.



I will take one... where is that webpage. I lost out on the last OMG limited edition and still feeling sore.


----------



## rufus001

Yeah he better make enough for every one otherwise ... :whoopin:.

:lolsign:


----------



## madecov

saabluster said:


> Teaser? How about a cropped thermal image of one of the lights. Just north of 100Kcd. The light on the right has been modded by me and has significantly better thermal characteristics as you can readily see. The one on the left is stock but is running almost exactly the same current so the cooler surface temps mean the heat is trapped inside the light reducing both output and lifetimes.



Saabluster,
I tried to pm you but your box is full. Please contact me when you get a chance
madecov


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Put me down for one of the hopefully 'little' beauties that does over 200Kcd please.
Anyone want to buy a kidney?


----------



## saabluster

ScaryFatKidGT said:


> Without an asphyeric? (with is cool too but is a different light)


 
Without an aspheric. 




ahorton said:


> 3x 40K cp = 120K cp ?
> or actually 3x the throw:
> 3^2 x 40K cp = 360K cp ?
> 
> Definitely hoping you mean the latter!


The former not the latter.  




madecov said:


> Saabluster,
> I tried to pm you but your box is full. Please contact me when you get a chance
> madecov


The server issues the other day erased the subscription I just bought which gave me more room in my inbox. Waiting for Kel to reinstate it.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

So when are Dereelight going to release this new larger aspheric head Tatjanamagic?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> So when are Dereelight going to release this new larger aspheric head Tatjanamagic?



I don't know exactly but I got prototype pictures from them and I can only tell it looks similar like nightmaster only bigger... I think it will be before Christmas.

For aspheric fans throw will go around 110kcd with XML and over 150 with EZ900 Q5 (if someone have older dbs EZ900 R2 it will throw 10% more than this new one)

Saabluster if I understood you right U will have long distance reflector throwers? Without aspheric? Now this numbers will be great achievement in flashlight world...

I also hope you will made deerelight pills also... around 150 kcd in my dbs aspheric or nightmaster would be ideal for me...


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Very interesting. I would love the new 200Kcd+ from Saabluster. 
I would also love the Saabluster light engine in my DBS with the latest yet to be released aspheric head:devil:


----------



## Xtremespeed

So where is the best place to keep an eye out for the release of Saablusters new lights? I've been spying on this thread like a kid waiting up to see Santa Clause. Lol!


----------



## rustlerdudr987

Hopefully all these eager people waiting for Saablusters website with his new light wont totally destroy the sever.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Tiresius said:


> What kind of light is that? It's got the incan tint but doesn't look like an incan. Is it backed by a boom reflector?



The reflector is 9 and 7/8" wide. It has a 120w H4 halogen bulb.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

OK. Now that thing is BIG.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Here's one I took using the light above with a 2.8 sec auto exposure that looks pretty good.


----------



## bigchelis

I have the Lamdalights Turbo XPG2.

He sels them in 3D Mag hosts and my personal one is in a 109LED hosts from harbor freight.

With 4*AA L91 cells I get 3A~3.2A at the LED and about 120K lux. I expected less throw but considering the Voltage Input is over 6V with those L91's it makes sense.


The big brother 3D Mag hosts does almost identical throw but with those bigger cells the runtime should be more favorable.
http://flashlightnews.net/forum/index.php?topic=2848.0

bigC


----------



## saabluster

bigchelis said:


> I have the Lamdalights Turbo XPG2.
> 
> He sels them in 3D Mag hosts and my personal one is in a 109LED hosts from harbor freight.
> 
> With 4*AA L91 cells I get 3A~3.2A at the LED and about 120K lux. I expected less throw but considering the Voltage Input is over 6V with those L91's it makes sense.
> 
> 
> The big brother 3D Mag hosts does almost identical throw but with those bigger cells the runtime should be more favorable.
> http://flashlightnews.net/forum/index.php?topic=2848.0
> 
> bigC



As you probably know I used those 109LED lights as the basis of the original DEFT. I tinkered for a bit trying to fit the MC-E in there with a more powerful driver but found the battery carrier and springs to be overwhelmed if you went much over 2A. Has he made some significant changes to allow the light to run that kind of current reliably?


----------



## roadkill1109

Do you agree that the new Explorer Series of lights from Nitecore are to be considered dedicated throwers? 

If you notice the reviews done by Marshall, these are one of the few EDC lights that he did a long distance beamshot comparison which he would normally reserve for the big thrower lights.


----------



## rustlerdudr987

The anticipation is killing me here.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

LOL, me too........


----------



## onthelake

saabluster said:


> Limited time and limited money. It is in the plans still. I am about to release three new lights that will all beat the DBS though so don't worry. Possibly as soon as next week.



Michael,

I am all in in your new lights. Can't wait. What you did for the edc enthusiast is unreal. The tint and clarity is top notch as is your superb craftsmanship. 

The glow powder around the emitter is so bright that I have even used that to navigate around the house in the middle of the night.

I have been reluctant to even bring it outside, as I don't want the finished scuffed.

All that being said, I can't wait to see what your news lights bring to the arena.

Thanks,

OnTheLake


----------



## enomosiki

saabluster, how will your new smallest thrower compare to DEFT-edc in terms of size and performance? Would you say that it would be the successor to the EDC series?


----------



## Oztorchfreak

*

I have been watching with interest on this thread.*

*You guys need to take some Valium or tranquilisers to settle yourselves down.
*
All the tension and anticipation is *enormous.*

I can see why, because I own the *Dereelight DBS-T EZ900 LED with the Aspherical Head.*

*It works great *and I have had it for over a year now.

*It keeps up with my SR90, only it projects a lot smaller image on the target.
*
It is definitely *over 100k CD!*

I have seen two guys test both the *SR90 and the Dereelight Aspherical at over 500 yards.*

*While one guy was with the torches his mate went up to the treeline where the target was and he could not see any difference in the lux that was hitting that treeline.*

The* image sizes were much different* of course but *the lux was the same for both lights.*

*I am interested* in what* dropins* *or other parts *can come out of these *new products* that can *help the Dereelight owners get better performance or I might be tempted to buy one of Saablusters new flashlights or throwers as he mainly seems interested in lately.



CHEERS*


----------



## rdrfronty

From my personal experience, having both a SR90 and EZ900 Deerelight, the slight winner is the SR90. But not by much. At 500 yards I measured .6L for the SR90 and .5L for the Deerelight. At 600 yards the SR90 did .4L and the Deerlight did .3L. They are obviously close and I'm still I pressed how the Deerelight can hang very good with a light with 10 times the lumens.
I also took several photos during testing that night, all the way to 500 yards anyway. And to my eyes the SR90 is still the slight victor. Here -

Control-






Deerelight-





SR90-


----------



## Bimmerboy

saabluster said:


> Without an aspheric.


Como se dice, ehmmm... _DROOL_?!


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

:devil:So, 200+Kcd without an aspehric lens, how about with one ?


----------



## Draven451

saabluster said:


> The smaller aspheric(smaller than the DBS aspheric) will have performance of just over 100Kcd. The most powerful light I will carry will be north of 200Kcd. Without the need for an aspheric! Exact specs will be released when the new site goes live. Hint. These are not OMG branded lights.



I have been waiting patiently for these lights! I'm glad to see they are coming to market soon 

While I haven't been following CPF as much as I used to I will definitely be on the lookout for your announcement on these lights!


----------



## BLUE LED

The aspheric on my Crelant 7G5 V2 is ok. I would not classify it as ether particularly good it bad. I am looking forward to your new offerings, as I like throw.

I think the newer Armytek Predator V2 with XP-G2 and smooth reflector should throw much further than the earlier XP-G R5 versions.


----------



## ABTOMAT

I have a UB3T that throws pretty well, although I didn't buy it for that reason. Out punches my old WA01160 modded Magchrger which was a real surprise.

Of course in CPF tradition I had to take things further, so I'm waiting for my first HID to show up.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

rdrfronty said:


> From my personal experience, having both a SR90 and EZ900 Deerelight, the slight winner is the SR90. But not by much. At 500 yards I measured .6L for the SR90 and .5L for the Deerelight. At 600 yards the SR90 did .4L and the Deerlight did .3L. They are obviously close and I'm still I pressed how the Deerelight can hang very good with a light with 10 times the lumens.
> I also took several photos during testing that night, all the way to 500 yards anyway. And to my eyes the SR90 is still the slight victor.



Friend when I test it dbs v3 r2 EZ900 aspheric throw slightly more than olight sr 90 but not much... 

But there are no doubt that with aspheric you can see further in a dark because it does not ruin your night vision like big reflector thrower of similar kcd values. 

As U probably know not all aspheric throw same because some of them have clearer lenses while some of them not(because it is hard for factory to made 100% same and balanced lenses)... 

So with deerelight possible variations are from over 100kcd-80kcd... Your is probably on 80kcd so it throws something less...

Same thing with Tiablo A9... U could get 70 - 50 kcd depend on lenses lottery...


----------



## rdrfronty

I agree that there is variables in the the output of the Deerelights. And apparently in the SR90's too from other examples on this forum. But both the Deerelight and the SR90 that I own are pretty good quality examples for both I believe. I've actually tested my Deerelight at 96K, which might not be the best example out there, but it's a pretty healthy light none the less. My SR90 however tested at 102K which again shows its a pretty healthy light. So those numbers, along with my actual real life field lux testing of both up to 600 yards, coincide pretty well. Both lights will throw beyond that point, I just ran out of testing range to find each peak down to .25. Besides, it starts getting a little hard to hit targets 500+ yards for lux testing and spot photos. 
I do also agree that the Deerelight would be possibly a better choice for targeting a figure at a great distance. The SR90's much brighter spill indeed might have ill effect on ones night vision. However the side benefit of that bright spill might allow one to actually FIND the target much easier down range vs the narrow beam of the Deerlight. Thus the reason for the SR90 being a search and rescue light. But sure, in for use in hunting like I understand you do, I can see the Deerelight being a much smarter choice. It wouldn't kill your night vision and also wouldn't spook other animals so easily. And I cant see many people mounting a SR90 to a rifle 
So please don't misunderstand me - the Deerlight is an awesome thrower, but I also think the SR90 will usually hold its own in most direct comparisons between the two. They just happen to be very closely matched in throw and with variables in lenses, led diodes, and reflectors, victors will also likely vary. 
Basically both are awesome lights that throw their arses off. I'm just happy that I get to flex the muscles of both lights.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Yes we agree 

Two different worlds reflector vs aspheric but real flashaholic should have both of them 

So I really wonder will Saabluster made reflector throwers that will kill in throw both of them?


----------



## rustlerdudr987

Tatjanamagic said:


> So I really wonder will Saabluster made reflector throwers that will kill in throw both of them?



I hope so that would be unheard of but this wait is killing me and i cant wait for an update.


----------



## fatelvis

Rdrfronty, are you sure that is 500 yards? To the main tree in the pic?


----------



## rdrfronty

The camera was actually 100yds away from the tree. The lights themselves were 500yards away. We had to keep the camera at a reasonable distance because at those big distances you wouldn't hardly be able too see the tree. I had to shoot in the general direction of the tree and have the photographer guide my spot to the correct tree. For doing the actual lux test I mount my meter on bright colored stand about head high with a couple reflectors mounted on it to help find the meter. Was a little difficult, but fun project me and my brother have done a few times.
And I'm really looking forward to seeing these new lights saabluster has coming out. Sounds very cool.


----------



## fishhead

I just ordered one of the modified TN31s. Wow. It looks like it will blow the SR95UT out of the water and might even top the DEFT-HO?


----------



## Xmldriver

fishhead said:


> I just ordered one of the modified TN31s. Wow. It looks like it will blow the SR95UT out of the water and might even top the DEFT-HO?




Where can I get one of the modified TN31s you refer to?


----------



## fishhead

Xmldriver said:


> Where can I get one of the modified TN31s you refer to?



Everyone who is interested in throwers needs to be on saabluster's email list 

http://www.onestopthrowshop.com/ThruNite-TN31-TN31.htm


----------



## rustlerdudr987

Ok guys i need your well educated input right now i am torn between the new Crelant 7G5CS or this The Saabluster FandyFire. i like the fact that the 7G5CS can change between a aspherical and normal reflector but the FandyFire's 117,000 luz rating is crazy. Any input and decision help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## bc5000

fishhead said:


> Everyone who is interested in throwers needs to be on saabluster's email list
> 
> http://www.onestopthrowshop.com/ThruNite-TN31-TN31.htm



So is this the new light and the new website he's been talking about?


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

bc5000 said:


> So is this the new light and the new website he's been talking about?



Yes. I am having trouble placing an order though?! I keep getting an error message from paypal saying to contact the merchant. Have tried 4\5 times now. I have the funds available.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Yes. I am having trouble placing an order though?! I keep getting an error message from paypal saying to contact the merchant. Have tried 4\5 times now. I have the funds available.



I have just tried another account, also with the funds available, still getting the same message. Anyone else having trouble?


----------



## bc5000

I just ordered one using Paypal with no problem.


----------



## bigchelis

fishhead said:


> Everyone who is interested in throwers needs to be on saabluster's email list
> 
> http://www.onestopthrowshop.com/ThruNite-TN31-TN31.htm




What LED does this use? XPG2 at 3A?

Does it have LED to copper bonding too?



NOTE: I saw a stock XM-L TN31 side by side with my personal Lamdalights XPG2 at 3A and while my reflector is bigger that TN31 had a smaller spot....That Reflector is just amazing and I can see how they should easily get over 200K lux. Good choice on hosts.


Thank you,
bigC


----------



## veedo

Woa. Hey saabluster, any plans to modify personal lights if sent to you? I want my tn31 supercharged. Any more info on what you've done would be awesome!


----------



## kengps

I haven't read much about the mods. So is the TN31 mod.... a swap from the XM-L to an XPG, running the same stock circuitry/amperage as the XM-L, So the Lux gain is simply a result of the same power in a smaller spot?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

rustlerdudr987 said:


> Ok guys i need your well educated input right now i am torn between the new Crelant 7G5CS or this The Saabluster FandyFire. i like the fact that the 7G5CS can change between a aspherical and normal reflector but the FandyFire's 117,000 luz rating is crazy. Any input and decision help would be greatly appreciated.



If you want my opinion Crelant 7G5 is nothing special... I expected much better flashlight than this... And throw is nowhere near as some guys(respect) reviewed. It will give around 70-75KCD throw with aspheric even with front glass off...

Build quality of 7G5 is low(same like crappyfire brands) so it can not be worse than Fandyfires which has Saablusters touch...

Buy from Saabluster...

TN31 looks great on his page... 


I will tell you guys that I don't like crapyfire brands so I don't like to see them on Saablusters page... Even with such modifed throw... But however lot of throw for money


----------



## Oztorchfreak

Tatjanamagic said:


> If you want my opinion Crelant 7G5 is nothing special... I expected much better flashlight than this... And throw is nowhere near as some guys(respect) reviewed. It will give around 70-75KCD throw with aspheric even with front glass off...
> 
> Build quality of 7G5 is low(same like crappyfire brands) so it can not be worse than Fandyfires which has Saablusters touch...
> 
> Buy from Saabluster...
> 
> TN31 looks great on his page...
> 
> 
> I will tell you guys that I don't like crapyfire brands so I don't like to see them on Saablusters page... Even with such modifed throw... But however lot of throw for money




I have the Thrunite TN31 and I love it just the way it is.

It has a great pure white beam that nearly keeps up with my Olight SR90.

I have the Dereelight DBS-T EZ900 Aspherical and that is a really good thrower and is slightly behind the SR90 in lux and you can pick up the Dereelight for just on $100.

Dereelight also has the Night Master which is basically what I have.

I also have the Crelant 7G5V2 with the Collimator Head and it is nothing special with or without the Collimator Head.

I would like to know how Saabluster is modding these lights but I would still not touch the Fandyfire even if it put out 200K CD.

The TN31 is a really strong light to mod but Fandyfire, give me a break!

For real throwing power I use the Dereelight Aspherical as it is a dedicated thrower!

The Dereelight brand has been overlooked in my opinion by Flashaholics seeking good throw.

I also have the Varapower 3D battery sized Turbo II Nustar 6500K that puts out over 170K CD running Imedion 9500mah NIMH LSD batteries that work great in my TK70 and there is also 3 of them used in the Varapower.

Once you have used LSD (Low Self Discharge) batteries you will never buy anything else again.

LSDs hold their charge for a year and still have 85% charge still in them.

Normal NIMHs would be dead well before that time.

I have just received my *Varapower Turbo 2 Nustar Led to Copper bonded 6500K De-domed SST90 running 4 x D cell Tenergy Premium White Label 10,000K mah batteries.*

It is putting out over *200K lux.*

*Varapower Rules!!!!*





CHEERS


----------



## langham

It seems like there is some elitist mentality here. There should be no difference with the name that is on the side of the light, especially since they are so heavily modified. I have seen some very solid designs that have come from these crappyfire light brands; they might not be perfect when ordered, but solid design. I have thought about using my machining experience and electronics knowledge to just start from nothing and put together a light that will blow a large portion of the others away, but the cost is astronomical. The major problems are the body which is extremely expensive to produce, due to the fact that I would be starting with a single large bar stock of aluminum, then you have the problem of the reflector. There are sites that will make you a custom one, but that is expensive too, or you could go for the TIR optics, which seems like the current best way to go, but would also be extremely expensive. If you want to make an original DEFT from scratch in America it would cost at least $500 assuming you have access to a lathe. Saabluster used a cheap body from harbor freight to start off with and that helped out a lot. The point is, why not get some Chinese company to make the body for you, they build the entire light for cheaper than I could manufacture just a few of the individual components, and if you don't like the name on the side just remove it. Saabluster says these lights are sound so I believe him regardless of what it says on the side, he took the already impressive TN31 and made it 100% better for heat dissipation and throw, so I would imagine that the Fandyfire would be no less impressive after he gets done with it.


----------



## saabluster

Oztorchfreak said:


> The TN31 is a really strong light to mod but Fandyfire, give me a break!


Hmm. Well have you seen this light in person? It really is a decently made light. It is not junk even stock by any stretch of the imagination. Modded of course makes this thing blaze. The name of course is beyond ridiculous but I can see past a simple laser engraved name and honestly appraise the light for what it is. 

I think you may be missing the point of this new site though. I would never carry this light as an OMG Lumens product because OMG stands for certain things that this light cannot live up to in my opinion. The new site is designed to offer lights from all collimation types, brands, and price levels. I'm not entirely where I want to be in that regard but I will get there. When anyone needs something throw based I want them to think of me The constant among everything I carry must be reliability and performance regardless of the price point. I do plan on offering Surefire lights going forward by why should I make all the "poor" folk lose out on fantastic performance if I can give it to them? This requires using cheaper hosts. I spent around $1000 in flashlights just to weed through them all and find out what I think are good lights and the FandyFire was one of the ones I feel is worthy. Of course you never know what the next batch will be like so I am there at the front to take that hit if they turn out bad.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

"When anyone needs something throw based I want them to think of me"

.....most flashaholics already do, but I suspect your new venture will make that even more so. As a lover of throw lights this is exactly what I have been waiting for. We need people like yourself who push the boundaries, achieve great things and then make your work available to purchase. I wish you every success and long may it continue.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

kengps said:


> I haven't read much about the mods. So is the TN31 mod.... a swap from the XM-L to an XPG, running the same stock circuitry/amperage as the XM-L, So the Lux gain is simply a result of the same power in a smaller spot?


Idk he lists the stock lumen specks and says they will only be slightly lower so im guessing its still XM-L?

Saabluster what is it? I also am wondering how much it would be to mod my personal TN31?

Id like to see a de-domed over driven SST-50 in the TN31 reflector.


----------



## bc5000

The website says he is not accepting customers personal lights for modification at this time.


----------



## rustlerdudr987

i personally Emailed him about the same thing and what he said was look at *this* page and it will tell you.


----------



## psychbeat

It's cool he's doing a small sun!

I've got a 1.4a neutral XRE in mine but with a SMO reflectored p60 pill I just jammed in with copper tape. 

The reflector makes the beam ring-y and I disabled the sliding head with duct tape  after I found the new focal sweet spot. 

I greased the crap outta the threads too. 

I'm too embarrassed of the rings for beamshots haha but the lenses on these are a nice medium size. 
A little bit bigger than the Ahortons but not too huge to carry easily.


----------



## Fresh Light

ScaryFatKidGT said:


> Idk he lists the stock lumen specks and says they will only be slightly lower so im guessing its still XM-L?
> 
> Saabluster what is it? I also am wondering how much it would be to mod my personal TN31?
> 
> Id like to see a de-domed over driven SST-50 in the TN31 reflector.



It's an XML. I ordered one today. I can't wait to compare it to a full sized OMG DEFT, VPT domed, VPT dedomed, VPT SBT, VPT XML and a bunch of other high power throwers. I have always been most impressed by lights touched by OMG.

Lance


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

bc5000 said:


> The website says he is not accepting customers personal lights for modification at this time.





rustlerdudr987 said:


> i personally Emailed him about the same thing and what he said was look at *this* page and it will tell you.


Damn I missed the second sentence of that last paragraph. I would even care if I got the same light back I just don't need 2 TN31's, mines brand new, or I could just paint it blaze orange and write my address in some contrasting color lol.



Fresh Light said:


> It's an XML. I ordered one today. I can't wait to compare it to a full sized OMG DEFT, VPT domed, VPT dedomed, VPT SBT, VPT XML and a bunch of other high power throwers. I have always been most impressed by lights touched by OMG.
> 
> Lance


Man doubling the Lux from the same emitter I wonder how he does it. It should out throw every thing except the DEFT.

And does that SmallSun really out throw the DEFT EDC? That is amazing, the host couldn't of saved him that much money he wanted $200 to put the DEFT EDC internals into a self supplied P60 host?

I'm a little disappointed about the size of the FandyFire, I wanted something smaller, will it run full output on 3 CR123's?


----------



## saabluster

ScaryFatKidGT said:


> Idk he lists the stock lumen specks and says they will only be slightly lower so im guessing its still XM-L?
> 
> Saabluster what is it? I also am wondering how much it would be to mod my personal TN31?
> 
> Id like to see a de-domed over driven SST-50 in the TN31 reflector.


 It is XM-L. The SST-50 would not be a good mod into the TN31 but that is just my opinion. To much heat load for that light.





Fresh Light said:


> It's an XML. I ordered one today. I can't wait to compare it to a full sized OMG DEFT, VPT domed, VPT dedomed, VPT SBT, VPT XML and a bunch of other high power throwers. I have always been most impressed by lights touched by OMG.
> 
> Lance


I am really glad to hear you have all those lights to compare with. I was a little reticent to blast from the mountaintops that the modded TN31 was the "Longest throwing LED light in the world" so I put in the description that I believe it to be. I have seen one person say that their VPT got up to 220Kcd I think and if true that is too close for me to call since there is variance setup to setup. You will note that what I have done is list the stock throw numbers that I get so that you can get a good idea of what my modded version might read with your setup if you have the stock version. I test at about 8 meters. That is the limit of my unaided sight. I only had one TN31 to work with so that is why you don't see a plus or minus rating on the throw spec. I actually measured it at 245 but put 240 to give a little cushion. Once I have a statistically relevant sample size to work from I will be adjusting the "typical" spec and adding in the plus/minus. I think the typical spec with the variance number is the fairest way to do this. 




ScaryFatKidGT said:


> Damn I missed the second sentence of that last paragraph. I would even care if I got the same light back I just don't need 2 TN31's, mines brand new, or I could just paint it blaze orange and write my address in some contrasting color lol.
> 
> Man doubling the Lux from the same emitter I wonder how he does it. It should out throw every thing except the DEFT.
> 
> And does that SmallSun really out throw the DEFT EDC? That is amazing, the host couldn't of saved him that much money he wanted $200 to put the DEFT EDC internals into a self supplied P60 host?
> 
> I'm a little disappointed about the size of the FandyFire, I wanted something smaller, will it run full output on 3 CR123's?


The SmallSun does beat the DEFT-edc but the reason is the significantly larger lens. I could push the SS even higher if I wanted but the cost would go up into OMG territory. There is no LED to copper bonding in the SS. The DEFT-edc was a pain in the rear to build because I was making the light do something it was never designed to do. The SS is already set up as an aspheric although tuning the focal point on these has not been a walk in the park either. 

So the FF is too big for ya? Here is a picture of it in my hand to give some perspective if it helps. And yes it will run full output on 3 cr123a.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

saabluster said:


> It is XM-L. The SST-50 would not be a good mod into the TN31 but that is just my opinion. To much heat load for that light.


Really? it seems like a pretty damn big/solid light but you know more than me. I just know do-domeing a XM-L doesn't work to well. How the hell did you manage to more than double lux without de-doming or increasing power to the led? The only thing I can think of is something with the reflector? You don't have to give any secrets up I'm just wondering, you said you added heat dissipation but that the lumen output is about the same? Do you also solder all the connections and battery springs and battery carrier wires? I was going to have vinnugen54 do that for me to get a little extra power till you came up with ur 240k cp beast. Last are all your modded TN31's neutral only? wouldn't CW give a little more power? Is it an option if one wants?



saabluster said:


> I am really glad to hear you have all those lights to compare with. I was a little reticent to blast from the mountaintops that the modded TN31 was the "Longest throwing LED light in the world" so I put in the description that I believe it to be. I have seen one person say that their VPT got up to 220Kcd I think and if true that is too close for me to call since there is variance setup to setup. You will note that what I have done is list the stock throw numbers that I get so that you can get a good idea of what my modded version might read with your setup if you have the stock version. I test at about 8 meters. That is the limit of my unaided sight. I only had one TN31 to work with so that is why you don't see a plus or minus rating on the throw spec. I actually measured it at 245 but put 240 to give a little cushion. Once I have a statistically relevant sample size to work from I will be adjusting the "typical" spec and adding in the plus/minus. I think the typical spec with the variance number is the fairest way to do this.


BEAM SHOT THREAD!:twothumbs





saabluster said:


> The SmallSun does beat the DEFT-edc but the reason is the significantly larger lens. I could push the SS even higher if I wanted but the cost would go up into OMG territory. There is no LED to copper bonding in the SS. The DEFT-edc was a pain in the rear to build because I was making the light do something it was never designed to do. The SS is already set up as an aspheric although tuning the focal point on these has not been a walk in the park either.


Oh thanks for explaining I didn't know it was that much larger, and yeah a P60 sized lenses is pretty small. I was going to get one but the price was to high and I usually like smaller EDC lights to be floody. I think you lost a lot of sales to the DBS aspheric because it did more lux and was just a little bigger and people are willing to sacrifice size for lux in a all out throw light (let alone the cost difference). I really love how you realized what people were looking for and made these new lights to sell while still continuing the DEFT stuff. Its hard to believe you got a Relflectored XM-L light to beat you original DEFT. IIRC didn't your best DEFT do like 238k cp?



saabluster said:


> So the FF is too big for ya? Here is a picture of it in my hand to give some perspective if it helps. And yes it will run full output on 3 cr123a.


Yeah I was hoping for a 2xCR123 or 1x18650 light with a big reflector something like the TN11 or Deree light not something as big as the 7G5 or M3X but at least it will operate in a short version I love running 2x18500's. At its price I will probably still get one, how much voltage does it need for full power?


----------



## roadkill1109

Is there any word on what saabluster is modding next?


----------



## climberkid

Wow that FandyFire is a LOT smaller than I imagined. That's what turned me off to it majorly. But wow! 180* difference in opinion.  watch out, I'm coming for it!

Also, do you have an approximation for beam angle of full spot and full flood on the SS?

-Alex


----------



## Oztorchfreak

*To Saabluster,*


I have a TN31 and it is a great thrower already in my collection.

I cannot see how you could get that increase in Lux and throw *reliably* unless you are adding more heatsinking.

Like many others that own the flashllights that you have already modded or just curious members we want to see some beam shots or comparisons between the original stock standard light vs your modded version.

You are a genius if these mods are reliable regarding heat mainly.

I also have the Dereelight DBS-T EZ900 Aspherical, and I thought that was a really good thrower.

I need a rifle scope or binoculars to see where the beam ends with that Dereeelight.

I own the Olight SR90, TK70, Varapower Turbo 2 and the Crelant 7G5V2 with the collimator head.

I do not like the beam when the collimator head is used.

I have a Varapower Turbo 2 that does about 180K CD.

Why are we building lights that can only be used with scopes etc?

Most people can only see about 100 - 200 yards in front of them with a strong flashlight like the SR90 or TN31.

*Please do some comparison shots* *like Original Flashlight vs The Modded version.
*
*It would be a great advertisement for your products as well.*

*Flashaholics* love looking at beam shots and comparison stuff to help them decide on what to buy.

I love the great work that Marshal at Going Gear does with comparisons and thorough reviews. 

*I think HJK and Selfbuilt do a terrific job at reviewing the finer facts and intricate details of flashlights etc and their possible flaws and things that we **novices **overlook.
*
*Keep up the good work Saabluster in pushing the boundaries and tolerances of the store bought flashlights*.

*It must make you feel good achieving what we think would be impossible results from your work and skills.*



*Cheers*


----------



## kengps

I sure hope to see some stock vs. modded beamshots for the TN31 soon. I suppose I have "Matured" in my Flashaholism, and now I much prefer to have a fatter spot size as opposed to the narrower pencil beams. I've found that 200-250 meters is good enough for throw, and the bigger LED's can do that easily along with a nice fat spot and good off-spot gradient too. But I would still be very interested in the TN31-240 if it has a nice, useful spot. I really want to see just how much narrower the spot is after your modding and decide from there.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

*To Saabluster,*


Why are you mainly modding *Neutral White* lights?

Will there be an option to order *Cool White* lights in the future?


*
Cheers*


----------



## madecov

SAABLUSTER, your PM's are still down.
Can you e mail me or some how send a message.


----------



## Fresh Light

Oztorchfreak said:


> *To Saabluster,*
> 
> 
> Why are you mainly modding *Neutral White* lights?
> 
> Will there be an option to order *Cool White* lights in the future?
> 
> 
> *
> Cheers*



I believe the tint change is a result of some of the modification. He does say it may have less lumen output, but about double the lux. Maybe if Cree were to release a 10,000k XML maybe then you could get a CW. But neutral tint is better for my purposes, so I would prefer it. I think if lumen output measurements were based on the amount of tree leaf green or bark brown reflected from outdoor targets and back to a sensor, neutral and warm tints would be higher output than CW. I say this only because the bluer shorter wavelenth tints seem to reflect less visible light from those woodland and other natural targets. This is only from my perception and experience. But when a manufacture releases a CW and we perform beam shots the scatter in the atmosphere makes the Beam leading to the target brighter, but the light reflecting back to my eye off the actual target (trees or wildlife or grass) , not the beam, appears less.


----------



## ma_sha1

Oztorchfreak said:


> *To Saabluster,*
> 
> 
> I cannot see how you could get that increase in Lux and throw *reliably* unless you are adding more heatsinking.
> 
> *Cheers*




Let me take a wild guess, possible that Saab's mod is convert reflector into into Aspheric lens + Weiwain light recycing collar?
That way, it's possible to double the lux while keep stock led/heat sink & drive current.


----------



## Fresh Light

ma_sha1 said:


> Let me take a wild guess, possible that Saab's mod is convert reflector into into Aspheric lens + Weiwain light recycing collar?
> That way, it's possible to double the lux while keep stock led/heat sink & drive current.



Nope, its definitely reflector.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Personally I would imagine that just the advanced thermal cycling alone would make a huge difference, let alone everything else he has done. The TN31 comes with a copper mounted LED.


----------



## mikesantor

I was curious if someone with a night master can confirm a few things.

The bezels on these are NOT compatable with any surefire models, correct?

Are the pills on these easily taken out/taken apart for Modding and tweaking or is everything sealed up tight bezel wise?


Thanks in advance for any insight.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


----------



## BLUE LED

I believe that the moded TN31 is using a XP-G.


----------



## Fresh Light

saabluster said:


> It is XM-L. The SST-50 would not be a good mod into the TN31 but that is just my opinion. To much heat load for that light.



From post 1036


----------



## The_Driver

BLUE LED said:


> I believe that the moded TN31 is using a XP-G.



Why? Did Saabluster tell you this? 

I don't think this is what he is doing. The driver of the TN-31 isn't really compatible with the XP-G since it drives the XM-L rather hard. On his Website it says that the light works like the stock version. I could be wrong though on this.

I think he is using the "new technology" he has talked about in the past which he also used to create the 600,000lux DEFT prototype. It's probably an advanced/better version of the Wavien light recycling collar. This means that a spherical mirror with a hole in the top is placed over the led. Part of the leds light is reflected back onto it to increase it's in intensity. The DEFT EDCs from the LR onwards used this technology. The also lowers the color temperature which is the reason for the neutral tint of all of his recent lights. It should also decrease the beam width a bit.


----------



## Xtremespeed

Fresh Light said:


> I believe the tint change is a result of some of the modification. He does say it may have less lumen output, but about double the lux. Maybe if Cree were to release a 10,000k XML maybe then you could get a CW. But neutral tint is better for my purposes, so I would prefer it. I think if lumen output measurements were based on the amount of tree leaf green or bark brown reflected from outdoor targets and back to a sensor, neutral and warm tints would be higher output than CW. I say this only because the bluer shorter wavelenth tints seem to reflect less visible light from those woodland and other natural targets. This is only from my perception and experience. But when a manufacture releases a CW and we perform beam shots the scatter in the atmosphere makes the Beam leading to the target brighter, but the light reflecting back to my eye off the actual target (trees or wildlife or grass) , not the beam, appears less.



Nice explanation and interesting take on the subject. 

I think, in my case anyways, it's just hard to break my old train of thought that the whiter (or more blue as opposed to yellow) the brighter. I know this isn't necessarily the case it's just habit. Back in the 80's there was a small, flat, 2xAA Rayovac flashlight called a workhorse. Had a rectangular head on it. I managed to jam a 9 volt battery down in it and that thing was bright. Lol! Several of my friends were quite impressed and wanted to know where I got it. I remember them saying it was so bright it was completely white. Needless to say, the 3v bulb didn't last long. Anyways, my point is, it just seems natural inclination to think the whiter lights look brighter. I have a modified mag with a 1909 and 3 26500 imr's from Fivemega and I know it puts out a serious amount of light if I concentrate on the target. It's like daylight with that warm color, but I swear my <300 led lights look brighter. I know this isn't the case, but I just can't shake it. 

Now if I could just sell a family member or something so I can get Saablusters TN31. Lol!


----------



## Fresh Light

Xtremespeed said:


> Nice explanation and interesting take on the subject.
> 
> I think, in my case anyways, it's just hard to break my old train of thought that the whiter (or more blue as opposed to yellow) the brighter. I know this isn't necessarily the case it's just habit. Back in the 80's there was a small, flat, 2xAA Rayovac flashlight called a workhorse. Had a rectangular head on it. I managed to jam a 9 volt battery down in it and that thing was bright. Lol! Several of my friends were quite impressed and wanted to know where I got it. I remember them saying it was so bright it was completely white. Needless to say, the 3v bulb didn't last long. Anyways, my point is, it just seems natural inclination to think the whiter lights look brighter. I have a modified mag with a 1909 and 3 26500 imr's from Fivemega and I know it puts out a serious amount of light if I concentrate on the target. It's like daylight with that warm color, but I swear my



Great story, I remember those lights, not that I remember the 80s. I think that Michael will tell only as much about what he does to get these excellent numbers as he feels comfortable releasing. If I were in his position I probably would feel the same, unless you are a paying customer. But I think a lot of what he is doing here is fixing the shortfalls in what could have made these lights great, then a little surgery to make them better. I think he's really offering these at very fair prices for the amount of testing and work that go into these lights. I don't know if it's a week or 2 till delivery but I anxiously look forward to getting mine.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

Lol people keep asking the same questions about the TN31 just wait for him to answer.

It is an XM-L and its not aspheric and the XM-L is already over driven in the stock TN31 if he added better heat sinking and drove it even harder it would need to put out like 2000lm to get close to that lux, which its not according to his site its probably putting out around 1000-1100lm.

So unless theres something I have missed about better heat sinking=more lumens at the same drive current my speculation is its magic . A pixy dust coated lens and or reflector perhaps?


----------



## The_Driver

ScaryFatKidGT said:


> Lol people keep asking the same questions about the TN31 just wait for him to answer.
> 
> It is an XM-L and its not aspheric and the XM-L is already over driven in the stock TN31 if he added better heat sinking and drove it even harder it would need to put out like 2000lm to get close to that lux, which its not according to his site its probably putting out around 1000-1100lm.
> 
> So unless theres something I have missed about better heat sinking=more lumens at the same drive current my speculation is its magic . A pixy dust coated lens and or reflector perhaps?



It's not only about the heatsinking. It's a special technology which he doesn't want anyone else to use.


----------



## Fresh Light

The_Driver said:


> It's not only about the heatsinking. It's a special technology which he doesn't want anyone else to use.


I think we're missing one of the most obvious things to get LEDs to throw much more.


----------



## psychbeat

Fresh Light said:


> I think we're missing one of the most obvious things to get LEDs to throw much more.



Yah - and the more neutral tint kinda gives it away. 

Really cool stuff!!


----------



## Fresh Light

psychbeat said:


> Yah - and the more neutral tint kinda gives it away.
> 
> Really cool stuff!!



Right! Please read this thread.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...with-success&p=3944661&highlight=#post3944661


----------



## bc5000

The modified ThruNite TN31 really needs it's own thread. I figured saabluster would have started one in the custom forum.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

bc5000 said:


> The modified ThruNite TN31 really needs it's own thread. I figured saabluster would have started one in the custom forum.


Agreed he was talking up the Fandyfire and then dropped the TN31 bomb. I thought de-domed XM-L''s turned purple and green no neutral? But if he did that and then increased the power to the led ALL THE WAY BACK up to over 1000lm that would probably do it haha. Plus it would make the hotspot brighter but the spill should be about the same.


----------



## saabluster

Oh my. I said it was an XM-L guys. Sorry I didn't put that in the description on the site. I just added it. The Performance comes from a better thermal path that keeps junction temps down and therefore keeps the lumen output from sagging as much. Also the LEDs are dedomed which increases intensity and makes the color output more neutral white. 

I've been doing research into the thermal side of things even more than I had before which is why I went and purchased a thermal camera. Flir in this case. It is interesting to me as some of the things are to a degree non-intuitive. For instance when deciding which thermal paste to use you do not simply go for the one with the best conductivity numbers. You have to factor into that surface finish and clamping strength among other things. So it really takes a fair amount of testing to find the best setup. I also developed my own thermally conductive epoxy(not the epoxy itself but the fillers to pot the electronics. It is really fun to test and hone this stuff. Fun to me anyway. This is also most certainly a non-intuitive science. I'm riding on the backs of giants in this realm for the most part as there is publicly available research posted you just have to dig and dig and dig. Then test and test and test. mmmm.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Bravo Saablaster... 

You have incredible throwing progress with reflectors... My hat down...

But however... Don't forgot to made deerelight pills as you promised...

Nightmaster(better than old DBS V3 aspheric) is very well made and its head is an excellent passive heatsink(like passive heatsink on graphics cards)and it absorbs heat very well... So I think it would be an excellent host for your super tuned pills.

Not to mention fact that you have about half milion deere owners over the world so I think you would sell at least 1000 pcs of supertuned pills for start...

And maybe some magcharger led mod upgrade in future (over 20 millions of them in a world)...


----------



## langham

https://www.reliabilityanalysislab.com/tl_cw_0309_ThermalManagement.html Has anyone tried this type of application yet? I know it is not cost effective, but it is very good at removing heat.


----------



## BLUE LED

The_Driver said:


> Why? Did Saabluter tell you this?
> 
> I don't think this is what he is doing. The driver of the TN-31 isn't really compatible with the XP-G since it drives the XM-L rather hard. On his Website it says that the light works like the stock version. I could be wrong htough on this.
> 
> I think he is using the "new technology" he has talked about in the past which he also used to create the 600,000lux DEFT prototype. It's probably an advanced/better version of the Wavien light recycling collar. This means that a spherical mirror with a hole in the top is placed over the led. Part of the leds light is reflected back onto it to increase it's in intensity. The DEFT EDCs from the LR onwards used this technology. The also lowers the color temperature which is the reason for the neutral tint of all of his recent lights. It should also decrease the beam width a bit.




He did, but he made a mistake.


----------



## The_Driver

BLUE LED said:


> He did, but he made a mistake.



Please explain???


----------



## laur

After conversing with Saabluter about the details of his modified ThruNite TN31, I was confident in his design and put a flashlight on order. It should arrive the 2nd or 3rd week of September. Since I have access to a golf course after dark the light will be given a good workout!!

laur


----------



## saabluster

The_Driver said:


> Please explain???



He emailed me, like a ton of you did, asking what LED the TN31 had. For some reason I typed out "XP-G" in response. Go figure. It is indeed an XM-L however and the website has had that info added.


----------



## The_Driver

saabluster said:


> He emailed me, like a ton of you did, asking what LED the TN31 had. For some reason I typed out "XP-G" in response. Go figure. It is indeed an XM-L however and the website has had that info added.



Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

Just out of cusriosity: do you think you could make my Varapower Turbo de-domed (200,000lux) even more powerful?


----------



## saabluster

The_Driver said:


> Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> Just out of cusriosity: do you think you could make my Varapower Turbo de-domed (200,000lux) even more powerful?



I know I can but don't have the time for it at this moment. He pushes those really close to the ultimate limits so there is not much room to improve but there is some.


----------



## climberkid

Tatjanamagic said:


> Bravo Saablaster...
> 
> You have incredible throwing progress with reflectors... My hat down...
> 
> But however... Don't forgot to made deerelight pills as you promised...
> 
> Nightmaster(better than old DBS V3 aspheric) is very well made and its head is an excellent passive heatsink(like passive heatsink on graphics cards)and it absorbs heat very well... So I think it would be an excellent host for your super tuned pills.
> 
> Not to mention fact that you have about half milion deere owners over the world so I think you would sell at least 1000 pcs of supertuned pills for start...
> 
> And maybe some magcharger led mod upgrade in future (over 20 millions of them in a world)...



Absolutely true. Especially the mag charger part. 


-Alex


----------



## kengps

Or.....how about some D26 pills. There must be a Gazillion of those around. But I still wonder about the beam quality. I had a couple of de-domes (by accident) with the SST-50's. The lux went way up, but the beam was horribly ringy.

EDIT.....On second thought....The D26 is a horrible design for LED heat transfer because it was built to do the opposite..to isolated the heat from an incandescent bulb.


----------



## Fresh Light

The_Driver said:


> Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> Just out of cusriosity: do you think you could make my Varapower Turbo de-domed (200,000lux) even more powerful?



How would you like to see what Lambda could do to a SR90? I've got got one boxed up here ready to go out with the mail. Well it's his now to play with. Dedomed they are doing 200lux at less than half the amperage of a VPT, and that without any copper or direct bonding or his NuStar. I hope to see 400k lux with that maybe with the new SBT. But the SR90 is a huge light and big output is expected.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

saabluster said:


> I know I can but don't have the time for it at this moment. He pushes those really close to the ultimate limits so there is not much room to improve but there is some.


Find a way to put the SR90 reflector on it  I bet it would do 300k



Fresh Light said:


> How would you like to see what Lambda could do to a SR90? I've got got one boxed up here ready to go out with the mail. Well it's his now to play with. Dedomed they are doing 200lux at less than half the amperage of a VPT, and that without any copper or direct bonding or his NuStar. I hope to see 400k lux with that maybe with the new SBT. But the SR90 is a huge light and big output is expected.


Exactly! So your sending it to Lambda? and hes increasing the power and adding in LED to copper bonding and every thing? How much was that?

I think that a De-Domed SST-90 throws more than the SBT is that right?


----------



## saabluster

ScaryFatKidGT said:


> Find a way to put the SR90 reflector on it  I bet it would do 300k



Don't get me started on the SR90. I really don't like the light as I think it is far too huge and if you do go that huge then you design it differently than a normal light instead of just pushing the enlarge button on the copier. That huge reflector could of course throw much farther than the TN31's due to its massive size. The only thing is it would almost certainly require a larger die LED like the SST-90 to prevent it from having a pencil beam but that LED has a lower surface brightness potential than the XM-L so pushed to equal extremes the added throw probably wouldn't be all that much or worth the extra size light. IMHO  Now If Cree made a 9mmx9mm LED then it would be a little different but there really isn't any choice at that size.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

I agree totally about the size issue. Of course people have different needs, and are quite happy to have a larger flashlight. In my own experience the larger the flashlight the less it gets used. If I spend a fair amount of money on one, I want the convenience of reasonable portability so that it is my go to light and gets the use it deserves. I have ordered the modded TN31 from Saabluster, and this is as large a flashlight as I like to go.


----------



## BLUE LED

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> I agree totally about the size issue. Of course people have different needs, and are quite happy to have a larger flashlight. In my own experience the larger the flashlight the less it gets used. If I spend a fair amount of money on one, I want the convenience of reasonable portability so that it is my go to light and gets the use it deserves. I have ordered the modded TN31 from Saabluster, and this is as large a flashlight as I like to go.



I would agree with that, as my larger VPT and Olight SR95UT doesn't get as much use as my TN31. Plus I can change the 18650 cells on the go for extended use.

I am tempted by the moded TN31, but waiting to hear a few first impressions.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

When i receive the TN31 I will do my best to provide some good beamshots and possibly a lux reading. But lets face it, if Saabluster quotes a lux value then that is what it will do.

I am really looking forward to this flashlight.


----------



## MontanaMan

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> When i receive the TN31 I will do my best to provide some good beamshots and possibly a lux reading. But lets face it, if Saabluster quotes a lux value then that is what it will do.
> 
> I am really looking forward to this flashlight.



I'm ordering one too. I want to see if this really blows the SR95UT out of the water. I find that hard to believe, but I'll be finding out a few weeks after I place my order! This stuff is so addictive.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

I think it would be wise for me to start saving now for the day Saabluster releases a new flagship OMG branded product. It will be a monster.


----------



## Fresh Light

What I think is really amazing is that the other two lights of Saabs site are at or higher lux than the Deerelight aspheric that has been discussed here to no end. The Fandy Fire does it using a xlm meaning it's going to have a really high lumen nice beam. That alone I applaud as quite an accomplishment. The Small Sun light beats the biggest baddest Deft Edc but may be a bigger but it's also flood to throw. I think his site is appropriately named. I looked forward to growth and options.


----------



## MontanaMan

Finally after much frustration and three calls into Paypal's help center, I was able to order the TN31 from saabluster!


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

MontanaMan said:


> Finally after much frustration and three calls into Paypal's help center, I was able to order the TN31 from saabluster!



Happy Days. I had trouble with PP too for some reason unbeknown to me.
Now I'm debating about ordering the other two or not. LOL


----------



## Fresh Light

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Happy Days. I had trouble with PP too for some reason unbeknown to me.
> Now I'm debating about ordering the other two or not. LOL



I believe the other ones are in stock, so you can tide yourself over till the TN31 gets there. I'm getting some new stuff to try out till mine gets here.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

I have a spare XRE R2 EZ900 P60 pill lying around and need to give it some use. Anyone know what kind of lux to expect if I buy one of those Ahorton lenses and set it up ?


----------



## psychbeat

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> I have a spare XRE R2 EZ900 P60 pill lying around and need to give it some use. Anyone know what kind of lux to expect if I buy one of those Ahorton lenses and set it up ?



I think 30-40k ish
I've got one and it's pretty nice for the small size.


----------



## BLUE LED

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> I have a spare XRE R2 EZ900 P60 pill lying around and need to give it some use. Anyone know what kind of lux to expect if I buy one of those Ahorton lenses and set it up ?



It depends on how hard your EZ900 R2 is driven and if you are willing to make a copper heatsink etc. The most I have been able to achieve is 33k lux. 

I am assuming you will be using a Dereelight P60 1.5A EZ900 R2 and ahorton aspheric. Hopefully you will get a good one and then you should expect around 26k lux.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

saabluster said:


> Don't get me started on the SR90. I really don't like the light as I think it is far too huge and if you do go that huge then you design it differently than a normal light instead of just pushing the enlarge button on the copier. That huge reflector could of course throw much farther than the TN31's due to its massive size. The only thing is it would almost certainly require a larger die LED like the SST-90 to prevent it from having a pencil beam but that LED has a lower surface brightness potential than the XM-L so pushed to equal extremes the added throw probably wouldn't be all that much or worth the extra size light. IMHO  Now If Cree made a 9mmx9mm LED then it would be a little different but there really isn't any choice at that size.


I meant fit the SR90 reflector on the VPT


----------



## saabluster

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> When i receive the TN31 I will do my best to provide some good beamshots and possibly a lux reading. But lets face it, if Saabluster quotes a lux value then that is what it will do. I am really looking forward to this flashlight.


 Keep in mind that individual setups vary. I have not yet been able to measure the VPT or the SR90UT on *my* setup. I would really love if someone wanted to send them my way just to test.


MontanaMan said:


> I'm ordering one too. I want to see if this really blows the SR95UT out of the water. I find that hard to believe, but I'll be finding out a few weeks after I place my order! This stuff is so addictive.


 Just need to temper some emotions here. Back when I created the first DEFT there was no doubt in my mind that it blew everything else out of the water because even factoring light meter variance there was still so much more throw that I felt comfortable making the grand statement "world's longest throwing". I do believe the modded TN31 is the new king but it is not by the same margin that the original DEFT was over everyone else. A strong SR90UT may equal a "weak" TN31. I just don't know. I have seen people post numbers all over the place for the SR90UT and the VPT so it is hard to get an accurate picture without all lights being measured on the same setup.


Fresh Light said:


> What I think is really amazing is that the other two lights of Saabs site are at or higher lux than the Deerelight aspheric that has been discussed here to no end. The Fandy Fire does it using a xlm meaning it's going to have a really high lumen nice beam. That alone I applaud as quite an accomplishment. The Small Sun light beats the biggest baddest Deft Edc but may be a bigger but it's also flood to throw. I think his site is appropriately named. I looked forward to growth and options.


 I am amazed that more people haven't gotten the STL-V6. It is stunning in person. I sent the first modded TN31 off to my uncle and since then my go-to light for security sweeps has been the FandyFire. The SmallSun is more discreet in use but the "shock and awe" factor of the STL-V6 is why I have been using it to check the property. I stay up late at night most every night and as such hear my fair share of bumps in the night. I know how to interpret the sounds and sights I hear as to whether or not they or normal or out of the ordinary. So two weeks ago I heard noises and saw lights that in my mind seemed slightly off. So I grabbed the modded FandyFire and went outside. I went out into the alley and fired it up. Immediately 2 boys were brightly lit up at the very end of the alley about 550 feet away. They froze like a deer in the headlights staring at the beam and then after a second or so they started running off in a rather terrified manner with them both shooting off in separate directions followed by one weaving back to join the retreat path of his friend. I don't know what those boys were up to but with the way they reacted I don't think it was any good. At least now they know there is someone in my alley watching who can shed immense amounts of light on whatever they are doing in the dark.


----------



## CamoNinja

SAAB any outside beam shots of the STL-V6. 

Thanks


----------



## saabluster

CamoNinja said:


> SAAB any outside beam shots of the STL-V6.
> 
> Thanks


I have some yes but the color balance is way off. I need to redo them. This isn't the best time to do them due to the full moon but I'll try and get something up tonight.


----------



## saabluster

MontanaMan said:


> Finally after much frustration and three calls into Paypal's help center, I was able to order the TN31 from saabluster!



I called up PP and asked them why on earth they were harassing you and they said they picked you at random to make sure everything was on the up and up.


----------



## rustlerdudr987

Could we also get some more angles of the light especially the FandyFire like a shot down the business end showing the reflector and the X-ML.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

LOL, we are a terrible bunch, we really are. Poor Saabluster works his butt off to get the site up and running, we all say WOW , then harass him for more more more.....


----------



## climberkid

He likes the attention, and he knows it. 


-Alex


----------



## Fresh Light

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> LOL, we are a terrible bunch, we really are. Poor Saabluster works his butt off to get the site up and running, we all say WOW , then harass him for more more more.....



Well, to get more and more, he'll need support in the form of good sales. I hope all his throwers sell well, so we can continue to get more of the best lights.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

I would of thought that Saabluster's modded FANDYFIRE STL-V6 was selling like hotcakes. 
A M3X clone with 117kcd for $98 in my opinion is a cracking deal. The form factor is a very popular one, and it can be used even shorter with 3 x cr123's. What's not to like? I am most likely going to add one to my order, too good to miss in my opinion!


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> I would of thought that Saabluster's modded FANDYFIRE STL-V6 was selling like hotcakes.
> A M3X clone with 117kcd for $98 in my opinion is a cracking deal. The form factor is a very popular one, and it can be used even shorter with 3 x cr123's. What's not to like? I am most likely going to add one to my order, too good to miss in my opinion!


I really wanna get it for use with 2 18500's but I don't really like the UI either, I might get the SmallSun but I wish it was a forward clicky but thats not a big deal.

Have you measured the lumen output on the TN31 and fandy? You say the TN31 is close to stock but maybe a little lower, what does that mean? 800, 900, 1000, 1050? And what temp would you say the tint is? I know it is subjective but I think you have seen enough LED tints to tell. Ill wait for beam shots too but all cameras are different.


----------



## saabluster

So I got an order from someone in Shenzhen. I know who they are and that they are the manufacturer of one of the lights talked about in this thread to no small degree. I wonder why they want to see one of my lights? 







ScaryFatKidGT said:


> I really wanna get it for use with 2 18500's but I don't really like the UI either, I might get the SmallSun but I wish it was a forward clicky but thats not a big deal.
> 
> Have you measured the lumen output on the TN31 and fandy? You say the TN31 is close to stock but maybe a little lower, what does that mean? 800, 900, 1000, 1050? And what temp would you say the tint is? I know it is subjective but I think you have seen enough LED tints to tell. Ill wait for beam shots too but all cameras are different.


I do not spec these lights based on lumens for a very good reason. I am trying to get people to stop thinking of a lights power in those terms. At least as it concerns throwers. Far too many people think more lumens equals more throw when there is very little correlation between the two. We need to retrain the populace. The color temp of these modded lights generally falls in between 4500-5000K.


----------



## Tiresius

saabluster said:


> So I got an order from someone in Shenzhen. I know who they are and that they are the manufacturer of one of the lights talked about in this thread to no small degree. I wonder why they want to see one of my lights?



It would cost them too much to manufacturer a light of your quality for a competitive price even if they try to replicate one of yours. Maybe they're interested in how you managed to pull those numbers with one of those lights?


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Not surprised the guys in shenzhen made an order. If I made a flashlight then someone modded it so well I would be intrigued to find out how they did it.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

saabluster said:


> So I got an order from someone in Shenzhen. I know who they are and that they are the manufacturer of one of the lights talked about in this thread to no small degree. I wonder why they want to see one of my lights?


WOW thats crazy I wonder how they found out about it so fast?



saabluster said:


> I do not spec these lights based on lumens for a very good reason. I am trying to get people to stop thinking of a lights power in those terms. At least as it concerns throwers. Far too many people think more lumens equals more throw when there is very little correlation between the two. We need to retrain the populace. The color temp of these modded lights generally falls in between 4500-5000K.


Ok I was just wondering, for ashperic lights I don't care but it is still important (like the 7G5 vs Deree light) but in a reflectored light it makes a difference what the spill looks like. The main reason I'm wondering is that I already have a TN31 and am thinking about getting rid of it for one of urs. 



Tiresius said:


> It would cost them too much to manufacturer a light of your quality for a competitive price even if they try to replicate one of yours. Maybe they're interested in how you managed to pull those numbers with one of those lights?


Yeah My first thought was that they would copy it but other than the ThruNite there $20 lights even if they spent the money and analyzed and copied your thermal paste and heat mods I doubt they would be able to get it made under $80 and they wouldn't check there LED's and stuff so they would have a huge variance in performance. They probably just wanna see what all the fuss is about. The only thing I would worry about is them copying your de-doming proses if there are any hints to how you get it done in one of your lights.

One more question (sorry haha) Do you warranty these lights at all, mainly the ThurNite sense I doubt the others even have a warranty department? 2 things I'm worried about. 1. Just random small things like a switch going bad or spring coming off and the company looking at it and not wanting to touch it because of the mods even if it was out of warranty and I offered to pay I doubt they would want to fix it and 2. The LED, I know you test these and run them at what you have deemed and tested to be safe levels but if one goes dim or poof you can be sure that the manufacturer wont touch it.


----------



## BLUE LED

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> I would of thought that Saabluster's modded FANDYFIRE STL-V6 was selling like hotcakes.
> A M3X clone with 117kcd for $98 in my opinion is a cracking deal. The form factor is a very popular one, and it can be used even shorter with 3 x cr123's. What's not to like? I am most likely going to add one to my order, too good to miss in my opinion!



I would have bought one, but I have far too many 2 x 18650 throwers.
I am still considering the modod TN31.


----------



## BLUE LED

saabluster said:


> So I got an order from someone in Shenzhen. I know who they are and that they are the manufacturer of one of the lights talked about in this thread to no small degree. I wonder why they want to see one of my lights?


 
They are going to take it apart to ascertain the improvements that you have made. Then calculate to see if it is economically viable to implement some of the improvements.


----------



## BLUE LED

MontanaMan said:


> I'm ordering one too. I want to see if this really blows the SR95UT out of the water. I find that hard to believe, but I'll be finding out a few weeks after I place my order! This stuff is so addictive.



I too have the Olight SR95UT and VPT dedomed SST-90 and definitely interested how it fairs compares to these two throwers.


----------



## tatasal

BLUE LED said:


> I too have the Olight SR95UT and VPT dedomed SST-90 and definitely interested how it fairs compares to these two throwers.




Oh man, I can't hardly wait for the results..


----------



## bigchelis

ScaryFatKidGT said:


> I really wanna get it for use with 2 18500's but I don't really like the UI either, I might get the SmallSun but I wish it was a forward clicky but thats not a big deal.
> 
> Have you measured the lumen output on the TN31 and fandy? You say the TN31 is close to stock but maybe a little lower, what does that mean? 800, 900, 1000, 1050? And what temp would you say the tint is? I know it is subjective but I think you have seen enough LED tints to tell. Ill wait for beam shots too but all cameras are different.




When I used to test lights....The dedome effect on SST-50 and SST-90 emitters offered 2 things.
It would increase lux arround 30%
It would lower overall lumens about 20%

If you were to use LED to copper bonding the lumen loss would be less, but for that you might see a TN31 OMG Lumens model at a premium.....Maybe a TN31 with 6A driver and LED to copper...now that would be OMG Lumens.




bigC


----------



## Fresh Light

tatasal said:


> Oh man, I can't hardly wait for the results..



I expect a nice tight beam. What I don't expect is something that will blow away a 2300 lumen flashlight. I will have 5 VPT lights in several different reflectors and LEDs to test against. But I don't really expect to compare it to the SST90 lights or the SBT ones. I think XML or XPG2 is going to be the most comparable. But I know Lambda has been working on something special, so expect a thrower from him in the 275-300k lux range and this is not at all related to the SR90 I sent.


----------



## CamoNinja

Yep. Kevin has some tricks up his sleeve.


----------



## Fresh Light

Most people that have played with the big lights I have were most impressed with either the original DEFT or the SR90. Prob because they the most people have never seen an aspheric like the DEFT or a light as big as the SR90. Maybe the modded TN31 will be that goldilocks light, with 3 times the lumen output of a DEFT and almost double the lux, 2/3 the realistic lumen ouput of a SR90 and double the lux. One thing that Saab has always done was keep his lights more on the small side. Honestly I'm more impressed with a Zeno E03 XML on a 14500 than by the big Olights. Olight really makes good high quality lights, but the overall formfactor is not good. So we will see.


----------



## kengps

Fresh Light said:


> One thing that Saab has always done was keep his lights more on the small side.



There is a very high desirability factor to lights you can actually carry and use. A light with a shoulder-strap is a waste of space IMHO.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

kengps said:


> There is a very high desirability factor to lights you can actually carry and use. A light with a shoulder-strap is a waste of space IMHO.



I dont doubt the big lights for a second, but I know full well that I would not use them.


----------



## saabluster

ScaryFatKidGT said:


> WOW thats crazy I wonder how they found out about it so fast?


Well I'm sure the one in question is on these forums quite often but there is also a major contributor to this thread that has regular communication with said individual. 



ScaryFatKidGT said:


> Ok I was just wondering, for ashperic lights I don't care but it is still important (like the 7G5 vs Deree light) but in a reflectored light it makes a difference what the spill looks like. The main reason I'm wondering is that I already have a TN31 and am thinking about getting rid of it for one of urs.


It is around 20-25% reduction in total output but in practice is not really noticeable as the the human eye is limited on perceiving changes unless they are fairly significant. The neutral tint also aids in rendering objects better which makes up for any loss in lumen output as far as I am concerned. 



ScaryFatKidGT said:


> Yeah My first thought was that they would copy it but other than the ThruNite there $20 lights even if they spent the money and analyzed and copied your thermal paste and heat mods I doubt they would be able to get it made under $80 and they wouldn't check there LED's and stuff so they would have a huge variance in performance. They probably just wanna see what all the fuss is about. The only thing I would worry about is them copying your de-doming proses if there are any hints to how you get it done in one of your lights.


Don't be so sure. Remember that they can pay someone a fraction of the money it takes me to do this and make money. The person in question makes very nice lights. If they figure it out they will do it I guarantee you. If they do that it leaves me up a creek and with no way to fund the *really* interesting projects that everyone is dying to see. 



ScaryFatKidGT said:


> One more question (sorry haha) Do you warranty these lights at all, mainly the ThurNite sense I doubt the others even have a warranty department? 2 things I'm worried about. 1. Just random small things like a switch going bad or spring coming off and the company looking at it and not wanting to touch it because of the mods even if it was out of warranty and I offered to pay I doubt they would want to fix it and 2. The LED, I know you test these and run them at what you have deemed and tested to be safe levels but if one goes dim or poof you can be sure that the manufacturer wont touch it.



I suppose I do need to put something official up. Warranties are covered by me. Basically what I have always done is that if there is any way possible to fix it I will do it for free including the parts. All I ask is that the shipping is paid both directions. Unless it is DOA or something, which is highly unlikely, and I would then cover the shipping as well. 




BLUE LED said:


> They are going to take it apart to ascertain the improvements that you have made. Then calculate to see if it is economically viable to implement some of the improvements.


You are darn right they will. And they would have the new and improved version out the next day. :sigh:


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

saabluster said:


> It is around 20-25% reduction in total output but in practice is not really noticeable as the the human eye is limited on perceiving changes unless they are fairly significant. The neutral tint also aids in rendering objects better which makes up for any loss in lumen output as far as I am concerned.


ok thx



saabluster said:


> I suppose I do need to put something official up. Warranties are covered by me. Basically what I have always done is that if there is any way possible to fix it I will do it for free including the parts. All I ask is that the shipping is paid both directions. Unless it is DOA or something, which is highly unlikely, and I would then cover the shipping as well.


Ok that makes me feel a lot safer I will be buying the TN31 and maybe another one too but I'm saving up for something special right now in the throw dept if nobody else grabs it before I get the cash. *cough*16*cough*million lux*cough cough*



saabluster said:


> Don't be so sure. Remember that they can pay someone a fraction of the money it takes me to do this and make money. The person in question makes very nice lights. If they figure it out they will do it I guarantee you. If they do that it leaves me up a creek and with no way to fund the *really* interesting projects that everyone is dying to see.
> 
> 
> You are darn right they will. And they would have the new and improved version out the next day. :sigh:


File for a patent on the internals? Don't worry to much. Unless they significantly improved on your technology and come out with a whole new light or something I'm pretty sure most people on here wouldn't be to happy with them just like Niteye. A couple of company's have gotten stuff stolen from them like FourSevens but to steal from an individual that makes custom stuff on his own time and can't afford to patent every thing, is not very well received. I mean stock do these light even come with lube on the o rings or AR coated lenses or any of that? I read in a review that they don't even have a O-ring holding the lenses in its just siting there, not even water resistant in the slightest. If they wanted to copy are thermal mods they would have to start making semi quality lights in the first place like Xeno or Shinning beam. I think there is a reason only small custom shops do de-domes.


----------



## GulfCoastToad

We need pictures.


----------



## Draven451

Hi Michael,

I don't like the idea of some large company/manufacturer purchasing your lights to reverse engineer your technology and then sell products utilizing all of your hard work. 

I was reading a thread here a couple days ago about the jetbeam, niteye & systemax issue. Also how one of these companies has produced a light very similar to Data's spy 007. Well really blatantly ripped off his design. 

What can you do to protect yourself?


----------



## Xtremespeed

I agree. The whole idea is really aggravating. Not to mention there tends to be real problems tying to get some countries to enforce patent laws. There are a ton of obvious rip offs originating from China with blatant disregard for American patents with little or no consequences. You have to have big $ just to be heard and the little guy has basically no recourse. I hope Saabluster doesn't end up on that end of things.


----------



## kengps

Michael, What is Patentable about your mods? Do you have some new Patentable technology or are you just doing mods that the manufacturers haven't been willing to do themselves? There is a Huge difference folks. Unless you have something patentable you are SOL if somebody else decides to do what you do. Just because you do something well, doesn't give you exclusive rights to do it. We live in a competitive free-market. You must compete. Thats what makes us great. Provide good service and an edge. If you do that you will do well. In my business I have competitors. Just because I am the first to do something doesn't mean I have a right that nobody else has. They will eventually know what I'm doing. Sorry, but thats the law of nature and life. You must discover what the thing is that makes you best. And hopefully there is an advantage you have over the manufacturers. As for the statement "You must have big $ or no recourse" Not true. In fact it is the opposite now. If you have Big$ you are vulnerable in our Tort legal system. If you have a Patent infringement case and some attorney can score big$ from someone with big$....they are at the disadvantage. Hell, there are attourneys now who sue banks for a $10 charge that customers got charged illegally. 

Perhaps De-Doming LED's is not worth the effort for mass-production Manufacturers? Then agin....maybe they have the unit numbers where they can afford a custom run directly from Cree without domes? Did you discover "De-doming"? (Actually I did that by accident  )
As for the Thermal adhesive....It is known there are T Adhesives now that can offer comparable heat transfer to soldered on LED's. Is this your own patented adhesive? Did you invent the Light Collar?

Who was the first in the CPF community to offer hot-rodded P60 drop-ins? Should nobody else but them be allowed to provide that service? Who was the first to do the XPG-Triples? Oveready? Should VanIsle or others not be allowed to build those either?

I actually hope that Thrunight will not think it worth the effort to mod the TN31 like OMG does. I like to see the little guy establish a niche and do well. I do that too, but I know I must compete to stay on top. That's life. It makes everything here better, and "New and improved" constantly.

Good luck to you Michael. I doubt all the light brands you are modding are going to make the effort to do what you do.


----------



## saabluster

Ken you are quite right. I have no patentable IP in these lights. Just highly honed techniques. It is frustrating that I would spend the time and little money I have to find these untapped improvements only to have someone simply copy the fruits of my labors and research instead of having done the work to find it themselves. Is that immoral? I really don't know. I don't think so. This certainly doesn't rise to the level of the 007 ripoff by any means. Any less frustrating for me? No. If I saw Surefire using a new thermal paste that was the best in the world I would certainly buy it and use it myself. I get that side of the issue. I have figured that someone would start copying. Eventually. But I haven't even been going for a week before I have to worry about someone copying what I am doing? I guess I'd just like a little bit of time to have something exclusive.:sigh: Is that too much to ask?


----------



## kengps

They may see what you have. But they may take a while to get it into production. You must get moving and establish a market presence. Being first has it's advantages believe me. I don't know what you're doing with the new lights, but maybe you could negotiate an exclusive for a limited time period on one of the Patented technologies? Also, if you have even a very, very limited model....one that holds the title over your competitors....you can often parlay that flagship models reputation to advantage, on the higher production number items you sell. Your DEFT certainly was that at the time. I liked it a lot, but it was too big to carry. (I did own one for a time) If you had built something smaller like the A9 based one I built for myself....I never would have "Built it myself". I would have bought from you just on the reputation of the Flagship DEFT. You have a great Reputation. Looks to me you're going in the right direction.

I'd love to see you build something really hot in this size range. Mine was really mild, but performed well. Fit in a jacket pocket easily. XM-L should be fine. Mine will run for over 2 hours. An XML with 45 mins-1 hour is fine.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?284362-A-Pocket-DEFT&highlight=121,000+lux


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

saabluster said:


> Ken you are quite right. I have no patentable IP in these lights. Just highly honed techniques. It is frustrating that I would spend the time and little money I have to find these untapped improvements only to have someone simply copy the fruits of my labors and research instead of having done the work to find it themselves. Is that immoral? I really don't know. I don't think so. This certainly doesn't rise to the level of the 007 ripoff by any means. Any less frustrating for me? No. If I saw Surefire using a new thermal paste that was the best in the world I would certainly buy it and use it myself. I get that side of the issue. I have figured that someone would start copying. Eventually. But I haven't even been going for a week before I have to worry about someone copying what I am doing? I guess I'd just like a little bit of time to have something exclusive.:sigh: Is that too much to ask?



Your skills are far above the realms of a production line, and surely cant be transfered at a click of the fingers.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Saabluster is cool guy... Maybe to cool and to honest... 

I don't want to give advice to anyone but if by miracle God give me knowledge as Saabluster have I would do following:


- I would made my own unique flashlight design
- I would make contract with China flashlight company (quality one of course) 
- Then I would order host only(reflector or aspheric, body, switch) under my brand name (lets say omg lumens)
- MOQ is 500PCS 10000-12000$ for top quality flashlight like wolf eyes night hunter(build like a tank)
- Then I would finalize product with my technology (assembled and finished in USA)
- Warranty and parts support eventually upgrade ability 
- I would be happy with 100% profit for start  (lets say about 120$ for flashlight)

And only then I would come on the market and then I would shut up and keep my mods as top secret... Put or weld something on your pill so if someone will do surgery on it he will loose warrant or mess something inside so that is unrepairable.


So I think Saabluster should make something unique and keep all information for him and his family.
It is nice to share and give advices on forum but plenty of people will use his data and knowledge against him.

If you find something special keep that for yourself as top secret you have every right to do so...


----------



## bc5000

It's going on 2 weeks now, has anyone got a shipping notice for the TN31 yet?


----------



## Fresh Light

bc5000 said:


> It's going on 2 weeks now, has anyone got a shipping notice for the TN31 yet?



No, but my receipt is only from the 29th. With everything backed up over the LaborDay weekend, I don't expect it for a while. I don't know if he is stocking TN31s to 
custom build if has to order them then do the modifications. I'm willing to wait as long as it means getting a good one. Get your batteries charged in the meantime and find a good spot to take some beamshots.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

bc5000 said:


> It's going on 2 weeks now, has anyone got a shipping notice for the TN31 yet?




I am in Australia and I just ordered a TN31 from Michael Johnson (Saabluster) a couple of days ago.

Are you worried about production delays?

Or are you worried Michael is going to make a dash with the cash.

I think he needs a few orders locked in so he can buy those hosts in one group buy and then make a start on the mods for us.

I have my *Varapower Turbo 2* (180K lux & 270K with Aspherical fitted), *Olight SR90 *(113K lux), *Dereelight DBS-T EZ900 LED Aspherical* (100k lux), *Crelant 7G5V2 wth Collimator* (130K lux) and my original *Thrunite TN31* (113K lux) to get me by.

The TN31 is great as a thrower keeping up with the SR90 and putting out a bright pure white beam via the U2 LED installed. 



CHEERS


----------



## saabluster

bc5000 said:


> It's going on 2 weeks now, has anyone got a shipping notice for the TN31 yet?


No noone has gotten a shipping notice just yet. Oztorch is quite right that I had to order a batch. I had expected the lights to be here already but they are not. They should be here by the end of the week. That means first shipments will happen mid next week.


----------



## BLUE LED

saabluster said:


> No noone has gotten a shipping notice just yet. Oztorch is quite right that I had to order a batch. I had expected the lights to be here already but they are not. They should be here by the end of the week. That means first shipments will happen mid next week.



Did you order any spare or just enough to fill the orders?

I have been looking at this thread daily.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

saabluster said:


> No noone has gotten a shipping notice just yet. Oztorch is quite right that I had to order a batch. I had expected the lights to be here already but they are not. They should be here by the end of the week. That means first shipments will happen mid next week.



Still time then to add a sti-v6 to my order. Great, I'll get it done.


----------



## bc5000

Oztorchfreak said:


> I am in Australia and I just ordered a TN31 from Michael Johnson (Saabluster) a couple of days ago.
> 
> Are you worried about production delays?
> 
> Or are you worried Michael is going to make a dash with the cash.
> 
> I think he needs a few orders locked in so he can buy those hosts in one group buy and then make a start on the mods for us.
> 
> I have my *Varapower Turbo 2* (180K lux & 270K with Aspherical fitted), *Olight SR90 *(113K lux), *Dereelight DBS-T EZ900 LED Aspherical* (100k lux), *Crelant 7G5V2 wth Collimator* (130K lux) and my original *Thrunite TN31* (113K lux) to get me by.
> 
> The TN31 is great as a thrower keeping up with the SR90 and putting out a bright pure white beam via the U2 LED installed.
> 
> 
> 
> CHEERS



Take it easy. I'm not worried about nothing. Was just asking if someone had one on the way. As simple as that.


----------



## saabluster

BLUE LED said:


> Did you order any spare or just enough to fill the orders?
> 
> I have been looking at this thread daily.


A few spare too


----------



## BLUE LED

BLUE LED said:


> Did you order any spare or just enough to fill the orders?
> 
> I have been looking at this thread daily.





saabluster said:


> A few spare too


I finally caved in and order a TN31. Your reply pushed me over the edge and I soon realised that I could not live comfortably without that amount of throw in my life. Super throw in a compact package. I hope I receive an over performing one to take on my Olight SR95UT and Varapower Turbo De-domed.


----------



## mvyrmnd

Speaking of dedicated throwers...

I've just acquired a Elektrolumens ST90, and think that a SBT-90 would make a good upgrade for it.

Does anyone know where I can get a SBT-90 on a star?


----------



## DON KIDIK

Good afternoon all
Sabbluster,did you expect the intrest and numbers/orders or have buyers been lower in number than expected.Cant wait for mine to arrive.I also wondered being that im over the Pond,would some spare parts be prudent.Im quite new to the intrest/Hobby,so any help on this would be kewl

Have a goodn


----------



## Fresh Light

I received a VPT XMl and VPT XPG2 with direct copper bonded LEDs onto large copper heat sinks with an aluminium heat exchanger on the neck of the light . Both lights are in 2D size running on 3c cells. They both have 73mm SMO reflectors and are some of the best throwers I have seen. The XPG2 in particular throws an intense compact beam with overall lumen output not as different as the apparent die size would have me believe. I also put the head and lens from the DEFT onto the VPT XPG2 and tried that out. It is a larger projected die size, than the XRE in the DEFT, but the intensity at distance is impressive. I've tried lighting up some telephone poles at about 400 yards and it will without problem. 
I did not try the XML since the larger LEDs are less impressive with relatively small aspheric lenses.

This is why I like the VP lights so much! That friends, is a Copper heat sink.


----------



## BLUE LED

mvyrmnd said:


> Speaking of dedicated throwers...
> 
> I've just acquired a Elektrolumens ST90, and think that a SBT-90 would make a good upgrade for it.
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a SBT-90 on a star?



I don’t think anyone sells the SBT-90 on a star. I know it is a bit of a pain, but you could make one out of copper.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

:thumbsup::thumbsup:OK guys in an attempt to keep the peace. This is the best thread on CPF. Lets all keep our posts on topic


----------



## Kestrel

Five posts have been deleted pending moderator review. Please stay on topic. Thanks folks,


----------



## betweenrides

Kestrel said:


> Five posts have been deleted pending moderator review. Please stay on topic. Thanks folks,



I don't usually comment on these actions, but thank you Kestrel. Much appreciated.


----------



## BLUE LED

mvyrmnd said:


> Speaking of dedicated throwers...
> 
> I've just acquired a Elektrolumens ST90, and think that a SBT-90 would make a good upgrade for it.
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a SBT-90 on a star?



I will have a look tonight. I may have a spare one. What size are you after?


----------



## ma_sha1

BLUE LED said:


> I don’t think anyone sells the SBT-90 on a star. I know it is a bit of a pain, but you could make one out of copper.



SBT-90 on a copper already exist, it's CBT-90, but it's so big that needs to be cut to fit in mag tube:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?341778-FM3X-UT-with-CBT-90-amp-Home-made-Elephant


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

Fresh Light said:


> This is why I like the VP lights so much! That friends, is a Copper heat sink.


That no heat sink thats a space station!

I wonder how much that copper alone costs?


----------



## The_Driver

ScaryFatKidGT said:


> That no heat sink thats a space station!
> 
> I wonder how much that copper alone costs?



If I remember correctly he postet somewhere that it's over 1000$ just for the copper for 11 VPT V2s


----------



## ma_sha1

The_Driver said:


> If I remember correctly he postet somewhere that it's over 1000$ just for the copper for 11 VPT V2s




Sounds inflated. I used to get copper rod at online metal.com, they will cut the links to 1 or 1.5" for you, for mag D copper sink. end up to be about $15-20 per sink for raw material cost. the raw material cost isn't that high. It's a pain to machine, for some reason, lathe guys don't like doing copper.

you can't get exact ID for mag, so I had to get fatter one and grind the ID down, big pain.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

MA SHA! whe will you start your flashlight production?


----------



## rufus001

Tatjanamagic said:


> MA SHA! whe will you start your flashlight production?



+1


----------



## mvyrmnd

Tatjanamagic said:


> MA SHA! whe will you start your flashlight production?



He never makes the same mod twice, so a production run would be very, very short


----------



## ma_sha1

mvyrmnd said:


> He never makes the same mod twice, so a production run would be very, very short



Very ture 

Also, I can not make this into a job, that'll kill all the fun for me.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

ma_sha1 said:


> Very ture
> 
> Also, I can not make this into a job, that'll kill all the fun for me.


Do it for charity?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

ma_sha1 said:


> Very ture
> 
> Also, I can not make this into a job, that'll kill all the fun for me.



I don't know how can this kill fun? U do same thing as U would do for yourself except you do that for someone else + U would get paid for that... But of course maybe U R rich so that does not have sense 

But even than as ScaryFatKidGT said "Do it for charity"


----------



## bc5000

:bump: Thought I'd bump this before it got too buried.

Got 3 brand new Redilast 3100's charged and ready to go in the TN31.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

bc5000 said:


> :bump: Thought I'd bump this before it got too buried.
> 
> Got 3 brand new Redilast 3100's charged and ready to go in the TN31.



Good man.


----------



## climberkid

Recently acquired a modded Small Sun with an XM-L and a homemade copper heatsink. It has a 3 stage driver and today I did something crazy....I de-domed the led. 















The blue on top was the result of my inexperience with modding anything!





Now my only problem is getting the modes to switch correctly. It may be the plastic switch, but I can't get the high mode to stay on. 

Saab, did you happen to swap the switch for something else on your versions?


----------



## saabluster

climberkid said:


> Saab, did you happen to swap the switch for something else on your versions?


The switch is the stock one. The driver however is different. As you can see dedoming is not a walk in the park. I regularly destroy them.


----------



## climberkid

Must be the driver then. The switch is too simple to mess up. Maybe I'll work on switching that next.....


----------



## Fresh Light

Some throwers: In front row starting at far_ Right_ side going to _Left_:

*78mm VPT3 dedomed 4500K SST90, VPT prototype domed 5700K, VPT2 XML, VPT2 XPG2*






I'm waiting for my SMO VPT3 with the SBT to arrive before I take some beam shots. But there are some of the domed Prototype on pg13 here or this link http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?325827-Dedicated-throwers/page13. 

The XML and XPG2 are some insame throwing lights, especially the XPG2 as it runs at 3.3A. It has an incredibly bright, probably about 850 LED lumens from a 2mm² point source.


----------



## The_Driver

Fresh Light said:


> Some throwers: In front row starting at far_ Right_ side going to _Left_:
> 
> *78mm VPT3 dedomed 4500K SST90, VPT prototype domed 5700K, VPT2 XML, VPT2 XPG2*
> 
> 
> 
> I'm waiting for my SMO VPT3 with the SBT to arrive before I take some beam shots. But there are some of the domed Prototype on pg13 here or this link http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?325827-Dedicated-throwers/page13.
> 
> The XML and XPG2 are some insame throwing lights, especially the XPG2 as it runs at 3.3A. It has an incredibly bright, probably about 850 LED lumens from a 2mm² point source.



Holy s***. Now I'm scared, lol


----------



## MontanaMan

Sorry for going off the topic of the moment, but my standard SR95UT just performed beautifully and gave me my first clear view of one of the Mountain Lions that lives on the mountain behind my property. He was exactly where I expected him to be based on previous scouting in the area. I don't think it knew what to do in a beam of light like that. He froze for a bit, then turned showing his full size and tail. This is one of the main reasons I'm getting interested in these nice, powerful throwers. Two lumps of lead followed as warning shots, and the cat walked up and disappeared into the brush. I then went to where the cat was sitting to find it was feeding on a freshly killed deer. This is why I love these lights. First ever sighting of a lion after many years in the Montana wilderness. I hope I don't see him again, but I know he will be back to continue feeding on that deer. Got my heart pumping, and bullets flying before 7am!


----------



## BLUE LED

MontanaMan said:


> Sorry for going off the topic of the moment, but my standard SR95UT just performed beautifully and gave me my first clear view of one of the Mountain Lions that lives on the mountain behind my property. He was exactly where I expected him to be based on previous scouting in the area. I don't think it knew what to do in a beam of light like that. He froze for a bit, then turned showing his full size and tail. This is one of the main reasons I'm getting interested in these nice, powerful throwers. Two lumps of lead followed as warning shots, and the cat walked up and disappeared into the brush. I then went to where the cat was sitting to find it was feeding on a freshly killed deer. This is why I love these lights. First ever sighting of a lion after many years in the Montana wilderness. I hope I don't see him again, but I know he will be back to continue feeding on that deer. Got my heart pumping, and bullets flying before 7am!



I do not think you are going off topic at all. Just sharing your experience with the Olight SR95UT and a mountain Lion. 

The biggest cat we get to experience is a ginger domesticated cat that is mistaken for a lion


----------



## BLUE LED

Fresh Light said:


> Some throwers: In front row starting at far_ Right_ side going to _Left_:
> 
> *78mm VPT3 dedomed 4500K SST90, VPT prototype domed 5700K, VPT2 XML, VPT2 XPG2*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm waiting for my SMO VPT3 with the SBT to arrive before I take some beam shots. But there are some of the domed Prototype on pg13 here or this link http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?325827-Dedicated-throwers/page13.
> 
> The XML and XPG2 are some insame throwing lights, especially the XPG2 as it runs at 3.3A. It has an incredibly bright, probably about 850 LED lumens from a 2mm² point source.



The XP-G2 and SBT-90 should prove to be monster throwers


----------



## Fresh Light

Well, the 4500k VPT3 is dedomed and does throw well as it has the larger 78mm apposed to the others with the 73mm reflectors. But it is a Light Orange Peel so the beam is buttery smooth perfect beam and at distance it doesn't have the cutting edge hotspot light the xpg2 or the xml. But the SBT will have the larger 78mm polished smooth reflector. This is the larger 78mm LOP.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Is the SBT-90 just a SST-90 without a dome, or an entirely different LED?


----------



## Fresh Light

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Is the SBT-90 just a SST-90 without a dome, or an entirely different LED?


It is basically the same, but the SBT-90 comes from the factory with no dome and the addition of a Anti-Reflective lens over the LED. There are a couple advantages, first the substrate is protected from dust particles that can become a focus of heat and cause damage. Also, there isn't the tint shift ie 6500k becomes 5000k, so you get the bin you buy.


----------



## CamoNinja

Fresh light, I see you're the reason I can't get a VPT. Nice collection.


----------



## Fresh Light

CamoNinja said:


> Fresh light, I see you're the reason I can't get a VPT. Nice collection.



Lol, what do you want as far as setup? Domed v Dedomed/SBT color temp kind of thing. 
Personally, if I were to only have one it'd be a 5700 dome intact. It's the one I linked above pics on pg 13 of this thread. Dedoming certainly does increase the lux up over 200k lumen loss is pretty high. In honestly, if you want a thrower the xpg2 is pretty sick and the XML Dedomed showed promise at 270k lux up to 298k lux before destruction. With the DEFT lens on there the [email protected] amps throws about as well as the [email protected], but with a larger projection.


----------



## CamoNinja

I'm thinking about talking to him on one of his XPG2 lights.


----------



## jmpaul320

How are you driving the xpg2 to 3.3a? Big copper heatsink? In surprised it can take over 200% current


----------



## Fresh Light

The xpg2 is copper bonded to 12oz of Cu and pressed into a bunch of aluminum. It is unreal seeing that amount of light coming out of that little speck. Have you seen how far Saab took it in the LED section? Saab did tested it up to 1100 lumens and 4.91 amps after chilling it http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?340892-New-2nd-Generation-Cree-XP-G2-LED!/page2 post 70. 

These all run off NiMH cor d cells. The I can feel the heat in my hand on the SST-90 lights within 5 seconds, I don't know how that's even possible. But the XPG2 didn't produce enough temp change for me to notice after running a couple min. The XML runs at 4.5 amps and is a little warm after like a 5 min run.


----------



## jmpaul320

wow, that is insane... the xpg2 has become my fav emitter as i now have 3 of them in diff tint flavors for p60s (nailbender)

what kind of current is the vpt2 running on that sst90? it must be overdriven quite a bit

ive bookmarked the lambda lights site... i need to grab one of these in the next build run for sure!


----------



## Fresh Light

jmpaul320 said:


> wow, that is insane... the xpg2 has become my fav emitter as i now have 3 of them in diff tint flavors for p60s (nailbender)
> 
> what kind of current is the vpt2 running on that sst90? it must be overdriven quite a bit
> 
> ive bookmarked the lambda lights site... i need to grab one of these in the next build run for sure!


The SST90 has been measured in some hot off the charger around 18amps but usually around 14-16amps sustained. I have lights from all different manufactures and really these are great. Some lights break and they become a host for a mod or worst case a paperweight. I haven't had a failure in these only one that needed some tweaking with the VP. They are set so as if there was a VP switch failure it will run at full brightness. I agree with what you say about the XPG2. It took a while for the XML to gain popularity as the SST50 was everywhere, now where is it?? I'll get some photos this weekend. I have to pick up some cold drinks today, maybe, it's all about motivation and reward.


----------



## CamoNinja

My SST-90 VPT got warm also. Had that, and 2 of his XML's but traded them off. The next one I get I am keeping.


----------



## Fresh Light

CamoNinja said:


> My SST-90 VPT got warm also. Had that, and 2 of his XML's but traded them off. The next one I get I am keeping.


I have 3 other XMls from Lambda not in the picture, a 2D and (2)2C. Those are the loaner lights, but their all keepers.


----------



## saabluster

Fresh Light said:


> I agree with what you say about the XPG2. It took a while for the XML to gain popularity as the SST50 was everywhere, now where is it?? I'll get some photos this weekend.



Yeah the XP-G2 is encroaching on XM-L territory. Wait till they release the XM-L2 though.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

saabluster said:


> Yeah the XP-G2 is encroaching on XM-L territory. Wait till they release the XM-L2 though.



Is there any point having a XP-G2 R5 1D pill made up driven at 1.7A to replace my XRE R2 EZ900 @ 1.5A in my DBS Aspheric?


----------



## Fresh Light

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Is there any point having a XP-G2 R5 1D pill made up driven at 1.7A to replace my XRE R2 EZ900 @ 1.5A in my DBS Aspheric?


No way! Even at 3.3A the XPG2 only about matches the intensity of an XRE at 1.6A, just way more area. I'm looking forward to new released Crees as well, I'm hoping the XML2 something that can be run at 8 or 9A.


----------



## jmpaul320

can anyone confirm there is an xml2 coming? (i mean it makes sense we will get one eventually i guess)

but has anyone heard anything from cree yet?

i agree an xml 2 at 8 or 9a maybe close to 2000 emitter lumens :rock:


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

So is that 78mm reflector the VPT3? And what LED is the all out best for throw? I'll I ever heard was de-domed SST90's and the the SBT-90 but will a de-domed XM-L or XP-G2 throw farther?


----------



## saabluster

ScaryFatKidGT said:


> And what LED is the all out best for throw? I'll I ever heard was de-domed SST90's and the the SBT-90 but will a de-domed XM-L or XP-G2 throw farther?


There is no one simple answer to that question. There are many factors that come into play as to what is best for what situation and how far into technicality you want to go. Personal preferences come into play in such areas as beam width and actual usability as opposed to just bragging over numbers.


----------



## The_Driver

I remember Saabluster promising us some beamshots of his new lights ...


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

saabluster said:


> There is no one simple answer to that question. There are many factors that come into play as to what is best for what situation and how far into technicality you want to go. Personal preferences come into play in such areas as beam width and actual usability as opposed to just bragging over numbers.


In the VPT will a de-domed XP-G2 or or XM-L throw 10% or more further than the de-domed SST-90? 1000lm from 2mmx2mm or 3mmx3mm is way more surface brightness than 2000lm at 9mmx9mm.


----------



## kengps

You're numbers are way off. XPG is 1.4x1.4, XML is 2X2 and SST-90 is 3x3. Of course apparent die size is different depending on the dome. But these are the numbers for bare emitters. So to compare surface brightness you'd use a factor of Lumens/2 for XPG, /4 for XML, and /9 for SST-90. XML's will easily do 1500 Lumens on a copper star. An SST90 would need about 3400 lumens for the same throw. I still have an "Old" XRE-R2 EZ900 Aspheric because it still throws as well as the newer LED's. It is a small spot size, but it makes 425 lumens/per square mm at a fairly mild 1.4 Amps. XML would need to be driven to 1700 lumens, and SST90 to 3825 for equal throw.


----------



## Fresh Light

Here are some pictures.

*The Lights...not all imaged here*






*and DEFT
*





*And VPT/DEFT Hybrid like this
*







*


A couple attempts of each shot taken with some of lights

*


----------



## jmpaul320

that xpg2 is a LASER

good form :rock:


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

The_Driver said:


> I remember Saabluster promising us some beamshots of his new lights ...



I'm still waiting on pictures, too. I want to see how the modded FandyFire STL-V6 compares to the stock FandyFire STL-V6 which I already have. When someone claims 117,000k lux for over $100 shipped, I sure want to see what I am buying beforehand. And also what happens if I buy this light and don't like it or am unhappy with the so called brightness claims; do I get my money back? 


If I was going to sell these to the public, I would have already had pictures up showing my customers what they can expect. 

The same goes for the TN31. 

So let's see the photos.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> I'm still waiting on pictures, too. I want to see how the modded FandyFire STL-V6 compares to the stock FandyFire STL-V6 which I already have. When someone claims 117,000k lux for over $100 shipped, I sure want to see what I am buying beforehand. And also what happens if I buy this light and don't like it or am unhappy with the so called brightness claims; do I get my money back?
> 
> 
> If I was going to sell these to the public, I would have already had pictures up showing my customers what they can expect.
> 
> The same goes for the TN31.
> 
> So let's see the photos.



LOL you are making me panic!
I'm relying on faith 
Saabluster has a very good reputation which I'm sure he will uphold.


----------



## ncristia

I have the Fandyfire vtl-6 from saabluster and I can only compare it to my Xstar S1 and Fenix TK35 and it easily outhrows both. The Xstar has a huge amount of light, but does not have the throw the fandyfire has. I have no idea what a stock Fandyfire does. I am very happy on how it compares to the Xstar.


----------



## BLUE LED

ncristia said:


> I have the Fandyfire vtl-6 from saabluster and I can only compare it to my Xstar S1 and Fenix TK35 and it easily outhrows both. The Xstar has a huge amount of light, but does not have the throw the fandyfire has. I have no idea what a stock Fandyfire does. I am very happy on how it compares to the Xstar.



I have both the Xtar S1 and Fenix TK35 U2. The S1 production model does throw well and I am glad to hear that the Fandyfire does throw further.

I am waiting for my moded TN31 to arrive. It should prove to be an amazing thrower. I tested the stock version at the Maze at night 2 days ago and it performed really well. It is a nice combination of lux and lumens.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Sounds all good!
As for the beamshots, of course it would be nice to have some, but don't we all usually rely on beamshots from forum members as apposed to manufacturers?


----------



## Fresh Light

CamoNinja said:


> Fresh light, I see you're the reason I can't get a VPT. Nice collection.



The Next VPT build will be October.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

ncristia said:


> I have the Fandyfire vtl-6 from saabluster and I can only compare it to my Xstar S1 and Fenix TK35 and it easily outhrows both. The Xstar has a huge amount of light, but does not have the throw the fandyfire has. I have no idea what a stock Fandyfire does. I am very happy on how it compares to the Xstar.



Well maybe this will shed some light on the stock FandyFire STL-V6.

Now I use manual settings and a fairly fast shutter speed. So don't be fooled by long auto exposures that others may try and show here on CPF taken in a lot longer shutter speeds that does nothing more than overexpose the beamshots. These photos below represent just about exactly what you would see live in person with your eyes.

Here's my stock FandyFire STL-V6 at 60yds on manual 1 sec shutter f/4.5 and ISO 400.







Here it is at 100yds same settings. 






And here it is at 350yds zoomed in some on manual exposure with a 1.4 sec shutter f/4 and ISO 400.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Nice beamshots, how does it compare to your M3X?


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Nice beamshots, how does it compare to your M3X?



The M3X will beat the it by a little bit. 

Olight M3X at 60yds on manual exposure with a 1 sec shutter f/4.5 and ISO 400.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

That's great, thankyou.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

And here's the Crelant 7G5 that is a little bit better yet. This is with 4 CR123A batteries just like I had in the M3X photo above. Same settings and at 60yds.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

And the EagleTac M3C4 with the updated driver is a better thrower than even the 7G5. I'm guessing it's putting out about 65,000k. That was with 4 CR123A batteries in the tube.

Same settings but with a f/4 as the only difference.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

luminositykilledthecat... said:


> Sounds all good!
> As for the beamshots, of course it would be nice to have some, but don't we all usually rely on beamshots from forum members as apposed to manufacturers?



This is a *strange situation here* where we have to *rely on Saabluster's past reputation* to actually *buy* something that *we have not seen beam shots of or handled in a retail outlet.*

We usually have to rely on our *members beam shots* a lot as we do.

We hang out waiting for the reviews by *Selfbuilt* and other reputable reviewers, but as yet there are probably not enough owners that are setup and have the expertise to take comparison shots of his modded flashlights.

That will probably take some more time yet as he sells more and more of his products.

For a start the members here would have to have the *original pre-modded version and the new modded version to do controlled comparison beamshots.*

*I have a TN31 on order from his shop* and I also have the *original TN31*, so I have the* luxury* of being able to do a beam shot comparison and I will do that when I receive my modded TN31.

*When more members get the modded versions* I am sure word will soon get around about the *pros and cons of his modifications.
*
It really is a *leap of faith* jumping into buying one of his modded lights, but for some strange reason *I believe in his work *from his past experience at *doing what not many others have been able to do.
*
I think that like *most flashaholics,* we are wanting a *"GOOD REVIEW" before we "HIT" the PAYPAL button.*

*FAITH* is all I can say.

That's my take on this situation.




*CHEERS*


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Oztorchfreak said:


> This is a *strange situation here* where we have to *rely on Saabluster's past reputation* to actually *buy* something that *we have not seen beam shots of or handled in a retail outlet.*
> 
> We usually have to rely on our *members beam shots* a lot as we do.
> 
> We hang out for waiting for the reviews by *Selfbuilt* and other reputable reviewers, but as yet there are probably not enough owners that are setup and have the expertise to take comparison shots of his modded flashlights.
> 
> That will probably take some more time yet as he sells more and more of his products.
> 
> For a start the members here would have to have the *original pre-modded version and the new modded version to do controlled comparison beamshots.*
> 
> *I have a TN31 on order from his shop* and I also have the *original TN31*, so I have the* luxury* of being able to do a beam shot comparison and I will do that when I receive my modded TN31.
> 
> *When more members get the modded versions* I am sure word will soon get around about the *pros and cons of his modifications.
> *
> It really is a *leap of faith* jumping into buying one of his modded lights, but for some strange reason *I believe in his work *from his past experience at *doing what not many others have been able to do.
> *
> I think that like *most flashaholics,* we are wanting a *"GOOD REVIEW" before we HIT the PAYPAL button.*
> 
> *FAITH* is all I can say.
> 
> That's my take on this situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CHEERS*



I agree with that. And I meant no disrespect to Michael with what I said. But any of us that may be future potential customers have a right to see and ask what we are actually buying beforehand. Anyone that slaps out over $100 on any product based on faith regardless of the seller and how great he/she tells you the product is, well let's just say that person is not very bright in my honest opinion.

And no disrespect meant towards anyone here inparticular.


----------



## climberkid

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> I agree with that. And I meant no disrespect to Michael with what I said. But any of us that may be future potential customers have a right to see and ask what we are actually buying beforehand. Anyone that slaps out over $100 on any product based on faith regardless of the seller and how great he/she tells you the product is, well let's just say that person is not very bright in my honest opinion.
> 
> And no disrespect meant towards anyone here inparticular.



And I appreciate your honesty, as do many. But I really don't think that kind of thing belongs in this part of the forum. Maybe start a thread in the Cafe talking about why you think it's silly to follow blindly based on reputation. I feel it's disrespectful, even if your intentions are good, to all of the members here who may feel you are directing those words toward them. 
I also have a hard time forking out the cash for them without beam shots and reviews, but only because my budget only allows for so much to be spent at a time. I have followed several members opinions and suggestions here and have never been steered wrong.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> I agree with that. And I meant no disrespect to Michael with what I said. But any of us that may be future potential customers have a right to see and ask what we are actually buying beforehand. Anyone that slaps out over $100 on any product based on faith regardless of the seller and how great he/she tells you the product is, well let's just say that person is not very bright in my honest opinion.
> 
> And no disrespect meant towards anyone here inparticular.





If nobody ever bought any of his lights, how would we as members find out what they are like.

*I am taking the plunge* mainly because he has a solid reputation for modding that is virtually flawless.

What is $285AUD afterall, call me mad or anything but someone has to take that *leap of faith* or the other members that hold back waiting for other buyers opinions may never know what his products were like because* he would have probably gone broke waiting for those first buyers.

If I am wasting my money diving into the "FAITH" pond then that is my problem.

If I like the modded light and I pass on my good opinions of it to other CPF members then CPF members all benefit from my investment of $285AUD and others that go where Angels fear to tread.
*

*CHEERS*


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well like I said your going off of past experience where others here may not have that luxurary yet that might want to buy one of these lights. But as with any lights, there are hits and misses regardless of past performers. New models take the place of others that might not be as good. 

Again all that some here want to see are some manual exposure say 1 to 1.4 sec shutter beamshots to compare against stock lights that aren't modded. Now if that is asking too much before one commits to buying then I guess I'm in the wrong place.

I will await the photos. We will let the pictures do the talking from here on out.


----------



## Fresh Light

I ordered the modded ThruNite because I was going the regular version anyways. Besides, the lights usually don't get any cheaper. I remember when the first full size DEFT came out around 150.00 before add ons. But after analyzing time and effort put into making the lights they were closer to 425 or 450 with everything. Put it this way, a new TN31 retails without discounts for like 220, so for $65.00 more i get:

1. 2x more lux
2. Tested performance (qualitative and quantitative)
3. Domestic Support
4. Helping fund further products that we'd all like to see


----------



## rufus001

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Anyone that slaps out over $100 on any product based on faith regardless of the seller and how great he/she tells you the product is, well let's just say that person is not very bright in my honest opinion.
> 
> And no disrespect meant towards anyone here inparticular.



Regardless of your intent you have actually just stated that you don't think I am very bright. How am I meant to take that as anything but an insult?


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well all I want is to remain objective and see photos. You guys buy on faith all you want. But I as others want to see some photos. No worse than driving a car before you buy.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Well like I said your going off of past experience where others here may not have that luxurary yet that might want to buy one of these lights. But as with any lights, there are hits and misses regardless of past performers. New models take the place of others that might not be as good.
> 
> Again all that some here want to see is some manual exposure say 1 to 1.4 sec shutter beamshots to compare against stock lights that aren't modded. Now if that is asking too much before one commits to buying then I guess I'm in the wrong place.
> 
> I will await the photos. We will let the pictures do the talking from here on out.




*It is easy to parade and march in the streets with the soldiers after the battle has been won and not have been a soldier in that war yourself!*

*I have that "LUXURY"* to be in a position to buy lights that I have researched thoroughly, and not *"WASTE MY CASH".*

When I or some other *CPF member take some beam shots,* don't forget they need the *original and the modded version *to do that and *will you believe my shots are real or PhotoShopped or that I have used the correct procedure?*

*Why are you so negative about Saabluster and his game venture into setting up his own shop?

You probably want proof that his "ONLINE SHOP" is real as well.*

*He is very busy* making the products and refining them constantly and *it is not his job *to do beam comparisons as he could *"fudge"* them as some would probably say, as he is the *Manufacturer.
*
*Manufacturers rarely do beam shot comparisons!*

*Most manufacturers* show you *what a great beam comes out of their light*, but it is never compared to other manufacturer's products as that could be called *slander.
*
*It is the collective group that is CPF *that *rely *on each other to do this and later on get some reviews by those that do it best.
*
It is my money that is going into being one of the earlier buyers, so what!*




*CHEERS*


----------



## Oztorchfreak

rufus001 said:


> Regardless of your intent you have actually just stated that you don't think I am very bright. How am I meant to take that as anything but an insult?




Good one, I am glad some CPFers have some common sense and are not afraid to speak their mind.

I usually get into trouble for speaking my mind.

Thank You Rufus001.


*
CHEERS*


----------



## BLUE LED

I ordered a moded TN31 and can’t wait for it to arrive, but I too would like to see photos of the moded Fandyfire STL-V6.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

saabluster said:


> I have some yes but the color balance is way off. I need to redo them. This isn't the best time to do them due to the full moon but I'll try and get something up tonight.



Well that was posted on 9-02 by yours truly. 

All I want to see is the photos. I personally want to buy one of these FandyFire STL-V6 for the price but want to see the photos before I take the plunge. No harm in that. 

I would very much like to be a future customer. But not until I see some photos.

Now rip a person for wanting to see what was promised by the seller. Good grief.

And that is speaking my mind.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

*I don't want this thread deteriorating into some sleazy slanging match, so let's just see what I or some other buyer of Saabluster's lights have to say about their "NOT VERY BRIGHT" purchase when it arrives and they have had time to evaluate it, OK!*

Meanwhile there are plenty of other CPF members that are not interested in Saabluster's products as yet, so I want to hear from those CPF members with other brands and types of *throwing* lights and move on please.


*CHEERS*


----------



## TEEJ

I prefer comparative beam shots by people not selling the lights. 

I prefer them to be comparative, because a single shot, as mentioned, can be exposed in a non-representative fashion...by, two shots the same way of different lights at the same target are an easier comparison, even if not perfectly representing what the photographer saw that night...in that they are still able to be compared.

I really don't think the over exposures that get posted are done that way to mis-represent the light output. I believe that, from my own pics, its simply really a case of what the camera saw. It took me many tries to shoot pics that after they went from my camera to my desktop to flickr, to the screen on a forum....looked like what I saw that night.

It goes both ways too on exposures. 

I've had pics of some beam shots where my EYES saw the targets clearly, my monitor showed what I saw....but when the pics were posted in the low resolution the site allows, the pics were black and the targets invisible. 

I've had some where ambient lighting and/or shmootz in the air made the sky glow, or the beam shots all looked the same in the pics, but where different in real life, etc. Its HARD to recreate what you saw. 

My camera loses F-stop if I zoom...so if I zoom to a target to show detail, it dims the pics, and zooming out brightens them, etc.

Roll it all together, and my solution is to just take the same pics for all the lights I'm comparing, do control shots of the same scenes with no flashlights...write down what I saw and didn't see, and make an attempt to have the control parts look the same, and the lit parts look like they did, and call it a day.



Its never perfect, but its at least representative.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Well that was posted on 9-02 by yours truly.
> 
> All I want to see is the photos. I personally want to buy one of these FandyFire STL-V6 for the price but want to see the photos before I take the plunge. No harm in that.
> 
> I would very much like to be a future customer. But not until I see some photos.
> 
> Now rip a person for wanting to see what was promised by the seller. Good grief.
> 
> And that is speaking my mind.



*
NO COMMENT FROM ME.

I WILL LET YOU DO ALL OF THE TALKING, I AM DONE WITH THE SUBJECT.*

*



CHEERS*


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Oztorchfreak said:


> *I don't want this thread deteriorating into some sleazy slanging match, so let's just see what I or some other buyer of Saabluster's lights have to say about their "NOT VERY BRIGHT" purchase when it arrives and they have had time to evaluatete it, OK!*
> 
> Meanwhile there are plenty of other CPF members that are not interested in Saabluster's products as yet, so I want to hear from those CPF members with other brands and types of *throwing* lights and move on please.
> 
> 
> *CHEERS*



Well again your taking what I said way out of context. I could tell anyone I walked on water, but that don't make it so. 

There are others here that want to see photos as well just like Michael said he would try and do on 9-02. But he has yet to do so. I'm sure he will. I'm hoping I will be blown away with the results.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Well again your taking what I said way out of context. I could tell anyone I walked on water, but that don't make it so.
> 
> There are others here that want to see photos as well just like Michael said he would try and do on 9-02. But he has yet to do so. I'm sure he will. I'm hoping I will be blown away with the results.




*JUST LEAVE IT BE PLEASE.

I HAVE MADE MY VIEW CRYSTAL CLEAR, OR ARE YOU JUST TRYING HARD TO BAIT ANOTHER FELLOW CPF MEMBER?
*



*CHEERS*


----------



## tatasal

Much ado about a small thing...

and guess who is the common denominator everytime a thread gets hot?


----------



## MontanaMan

Perhaps someone who can afford to spend over $100 on a flashlight on "faith" alone is very bright. So bright, they have become financially successful to the point where they can buy $100+ lights all day long and never even think twice about it. I'm not saying I'm one of those people, but I can afford to blow a few hundred dollars if the light doesn't live up to the hype. I have other throwers, and I'll be happy to do beam shot comparisons once I get the TN31 I have on order from OneStopThrowShop.com. The entire reason I purchased the modified TN31 was to see if it actually does out throw the Olight SR95UT. I'll also be happy to purchase a standard TN31 from goinggear or some other shop to do comparisons between the stock and modified versions. I know nothing about photography, but I bought a Cannon 7D a little while back, and I'm told it is a nice camera. I have a friend who is skilled with cameras, and I'll see if we can get something set up to show beam comparisons. With all the smoke here in Montana, the beams are highly visible. Don't know if that will help or hurt, but it looks cool.


----------



## Adrenaline_6

MontanaMan said:


> Perhaps someone who can afford to spend over $100 on a flashlight on "faith" alone is very bright. So bright, they have become financially successful to the point where they can buy $100+ lights all day long and never even think twice about it. I'm not saying I'm one of those people, but I can afford to blow a few hundred dollars if the light doesn't live up to the hype. I have other throwers, and I'll be happy to do beam shot comparisons once I get the TN31 I have on order from OneStopThrowShop.com. The entire reason I purchased the modified TN31 was to see if it actually does out throw the Olight SR95UT. I'll also be happy to purchase a standard TN31 from goinggear or some other shop to do comparisons between the stock and modified versions. I know nothing about photography, but I bought a Cannon 7D a little while back, and I'm told it is a nice camera. I have a friend who is skilled with cameras, and I'll see if we can get something set up to show beam comparisons. With all the smoke here in Montana, the beams are highly visible. Don't know if that will help or hurt, but it looks cool.



Can't wait to see them and all the other people's beamshots of these new lights. I also would love to see the modded Fandyfire and the SmallSun along with the TN31. Hope you guys get your lights soon!


----------



## CamoNinja

Pictures of beam shots are over rated.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

BLUE LED said:


> I ordered a moded TN31 and can’t wait for it to arrive, but I too would like to see photos of the moded Fandyfire STL-V6.



Just wait a little while and one of us CPF members will put up some beamshots.

Saabluster mods three products so far, so you would have to have the original light to make comparison shots otherwise how can you see what he has done or whether it is worth the extra money to buy one?

I have the original TN31 so when the modded version comes I can evaluate the modded one to my original TN31 and I will also post some comparison beam shots on here.

You will have to wait for another CPF member to do comparison shots of the Fandyfire STL-V6 as I do not have that light and I will probably (hopefully) be satisfied with the modded TN31.

*
CHEERS*


----------



## Tatjanamagic

I don't doubt in Saabluster (well maybe 10-15% percent variations are possible as we don't have same light meters, or some measure highest peak lux readings while someone average)

He has flashlights for true throw fans and maybe beam looses a bit on its regular characteristic but that is not so important because it is all about throw when Saabluster takes things in his hand 

Taking night picture is sci fiction for me but some members like Teej are taking good ones... But I also noticed variations in picture quality of some members so one member can take brighter beam picture and other one takes dimmer beam picture at similar distances so it is very hard to judge beam characteristic by forum picture and it will not be as good as your real life experience.


----------



## TEEJ

Tatjanamagic said:


> I don't doubt in Saabluster (well maybe 10-15% percent variations are possible as we don't have same light meters, or some measure highest peak lux readings while someone average)
> 
> He has flashlights for true throw fans and maybe beam looses a bit on its regular characteristic but that is not so important because it is all about throw when Saabluster takes things in his hand
> 
> Taking night picture is sci fiction for me but some members like Teej are taking good ones... But I also noticed variations in picture quality of some members so one member can take brighter beam picture and other one takes dimmer beam picture at similar distances so it is very hard to judge beam characteristic by forum picture and it will not be as good as your real life experience.




Real life is ALWAYS BEST.



I DO try hard to take representative pics...but even at the same location, on a different night, the crap in the air and ambient lighting might make it LOOK different to my eye and not JUST the camera....so I can have pics of the same light that show something different in the same scene. That IS real life. Its also why I always try to use as many lights in a set as possible. It increases the odds of you HAVING one of them to use as a yardstick, so you can say...OK, MY XYZ does look like that....and this other one IS brighter, or dimmer, or shines further than the one I have, etc.



Some people go to CPF Marketplace...and do "catch and release".

That means they try a light, just to try it, and then sell it....and use the $ to try another one, rinse/repeat.



I have to say I'm not really much of an early adopter. I WILL wait to see what TurboBB, HJK, Selfbuilt, etc, say about a light, weight the specs and what I NEED to do what I do...vs what I WANT to do what I do, vs what I can AFFORD, and so forth.

Sometimes, I see something that's just a smidgen better for a task than what I have....and it will make me CRAZY knowing I could have a better tool for the job....if i were willing to shell out another few hundred bucks. MOST of the time, I'll just BE crazy, and suck it up....and wait for a less incremental improvement. Sometimes, a used version will pop up, solving the dilemma. 

If you have the patience...you could simply wait for others to do a catch and release of the light you think you might want....and catch it yourself when they release it.

You could also go to the various flashaholic gatherings...and SEE some of these lights, play with them, see them shining around with other lights, etc....and really get a feel for what you're looking for/at.



Real life also lets you see something hard to show in a pic....the durability and feel of a light.

In pics, a light might look tough, but you can't really tell unless you throw it at something.

A guy had a fairly bright light that he was comparing to my Klarus XT11 when we we at a construction site. He said he thought his light was just as tough as the XT11. We were up on scaffolding over a concrete floor at the time, and I said "Are you willing to bet on it?"

He said he would, and I lit and threw the XT11 off the scaffold, it landed, still lit....and sat there shining. I then said "Your turn". 

He didn't throw his so much as try to drop it from as low a point as possible...and it shattered on impact in a rather satisfying way anyway. 

I told him to keep the $ and buy a real light.  

A PIC doesn't show that a light will be able to survive....just how purdy it is.


----------



## saabluster

Come on guys. Is all this really necessary? We are all friends here. Let's keep it that way.  There were several things that have delayed the arrival of pictures. Lights showing up later than expected, my feeling ill, and weather conditions. It has been been rainy and cloudy here recently. I want the photos to be as good as I can get them and decided early on to not go out on days that are cloudy as the lights here in the city bounce back and artificially light up the area. The shots need to be as consistent and realistic as I can get them. I have never ever exaggerated any shot I have ever shown here on CPF. If anything I have done the opposite. I know I could most certainly bring in a few more sales in the near term by posting pictures that were over exposed but in the end people will find out what these lights do. My reputation is worth far more to me than selling lights. 

Is it really so that those who have bought thus far have purchased on faith? Yes and No. To be certain _anytime_ you purchase a new light from anyone including Surefire you are placing a certain amount of faith in the manufacturer. Even if you have already seen reviews from fellow forum members when it comes down to it and _you_ press the button you are putting faith in the company that they will deliver the same quality as what was delivered to the other members. The idea put forward in this thread is that it was faith because there have been no beamshots provided. Is that really true? So there was no data supplied? I would argue that the most important quantitative aspect has already been given. The actual measurement of LUX/cd! This is the single most important spec for a thrower and yet some would like to gloss over that and focus on beamshots. 

Does a beamshot confirm in any way that the quoted candela is accurate? No it does not. Pictures are notoriously inaccurate around here. Not necessarily because people are trying to deceive either. It is simply extremely difficult to get shots that appear on screen as they do in person. I am not going to say that pictures aren't important at all but you have to understand what the most important metric is and that is actual measured performance. That I do provide and the pictures will be coming as soon as conditions allow. 

Now you could also have issue with the candela figures I provide right? Every setup is different so it is hard to make accurate comparisons when many people here have vastly different setups. I believe I have a highly accurate setup which I have honed over the years. In an effort to help people understand the significance of the modded numbers I provide I have added in a variance number to help people see the range of performance to be expected. I have also published the typical performance numbers for the lights as stock. What this allows you to do is calculate what the modded light might do on your setup. If you notice that my stock number is 5% higher than what you get with the same stock light then you could calculate that the modded number may have a similar 5%. I believe this is a fair and open way to present the figures. This is only possible where a statistically significant sample size is available of course. The numbers posted for the TN31 for instance do not have that as yet as there was not a sample size large enough to get those figures. When I am done with the modding and testing the numbers in full will be posted. 

In addition to this I will be from here on out shipping each light with a "certificate of performance" to show the actual measured candela of your light. This way you know exactly what you have. 

So indeed I think it fair to say that those who have purchased are, with the supplied data and taking into consideration my reputation, ahead of the curve. Bravo to you. To those who want to wait to hear the first reports back from the wild I understand how you feel. But know that I do not bias my reports to you here. I am first and foremost a flashaholic. I didn't come to CPF to make a buck I came here because I love lights. I started making lights not because I wanted to make money but because people here asked me to and I love the craft. It has always been that way and will always be that way. 

Please note that I will be starting a new thread for the TN31 and other lights in my new forum here on CPF. Look in the CPF Custom Flashlight Builders and Modders section.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

TEEJ said:


> Real life is ALWAYS BEST.
> 
> 
> 
> Some people go to CPF Marketplace...and do "catch and release".
> 
> That means they try a light, just to try it, and then sell it....and use the $ to try another one, rinse/repeat.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say I'm not really much of an early adopter. I WILL wait to see what TurboBB, HJK, Selfbuilt, etc, say about a light, weight the specs and what I NEED to do what I do...vs what I WANT to do what I do, vs what I can AFFORD, and so forth.
> 
> Sometimes, I see something that's just a smidgen better for a task than what I have....and it will make me CRAZY knowing I could have a better tool for the job....if i were willing to shell out another few hundred bucks. MOST of the time, I'll just BE crazy, and suck it up....and wait for a less incremental improvement. Sometimes, a used version will pop up, solving the dilemma.
> 
> If you have the patience...you could simply wait for others to do a catch and release of the light you think you might want....and catch it yourself when they release it.
> 
> You could also go to the various flashaholic gatherings...and SEE some of these lights, play with them, see them shining around with other lights, etc....and really get a feel for what you're looking for/at.




I guess having a TN31 that throws like crazy and can just about keep up with my Olight SR90 makes me wonder how anyone could improve on what I already have.

MY TN31 throws a brilliant bright white light with the fully driven U2 LED in it.

I just want to see the modded one and compare mine with the modded one myself.

If the modded one is better in my opinion I will probably sell my original TN31.

If not I will sell the modded one and buy an Olight SR95UT as I already have spare battery packs for the SR90 and they are interchangeable which is a plus.

In Australia we don't have any really good beam throwing sessions with a group as we are only a small Country compared to the US and other places.



*
CHEERS*


----------



## TEEJ

This might be heresy, but, frankly, as cd are only measured at the hottest hot spot, and then throw is calculated out to the magical 0.25 lux range...I DO like more info for throw, IF the throw is to be USED for something.

IE: A laser beam might have super duper cd ratings...but really SUCK for long range searches....the spot of light is just too small.

If the cd was supplemented by a measurement of the beam angle, and perhaps a standard comparison range, maybe 500-800 meters or something...to provide the _width_ of that 0.25 (Or whatever) lux spot of light at that range...THEN I might not want or least need pics.



If the throw is just for fun, well, back to the laser pointer beam patterns to get great range for the sake of claiming the longest throw, etc....and don't worry about what you'd SEE at that range.




That said, Saabluster is a god of lux.


----------



## CamoNinja

saabluster said:


> *The actual measurement of LUX/cd! This is the single most important spec for a thrower and yet some would like to gloss over that and focus on beamshots.
> *
> Does a beamshot confirm in any way that the quoted candela is accurate? No it does not. Pictures are notoriously inaccurate around here. Not necessarily because people are trying to deceive either. It is simply extremely difficult to get shots that appear on screen as they do in person. I am not going to say that pictures aren't important at all but you have to understand what the most important metric is and that is actual measured performance. That I do provide and the pictures will be coming as soon as conditions allow.
> 
> .



So true.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Can't wait to see the pictures. 

And I will disagree about the picture thing being deceiving if they are done in the correct consistent manual exposure of right at 1 sec shutter on the closer distance shots of say 75yds or less and 1.4 sec shutter for say for shots that are farther. It will give you a true to life comparison what you can more than likely see in person than not seeing any beamshots at all. Taken pictures anywhere that it is dark is a lot better than taken pictures in the city under a lot of lighting, too. Where I live there is no street lights and it is pure dark. So I am blessed. I have experimented enough on beamshots to feel very comfortable to say that what you see in my beamshots is what you get. I try to keep it as real as I can. And these settings I have found will do that on a consistent basis.


----------



## saabluster

TEEJ said:


> This might be heresy, but, frankly, as cd are only measured at the hottest hot spot, and then throw is calculated out to the magical 0.25 lux range


Yes this is true but this is the standard for *all* lights. There are not different rules for different lights. Part of the ANSI guidelines is to hunt around for the most intense spot. It favors HID lights the most in my opinion as they seem to me to be the worst at having one teeny tiny spot that that has far more intensity than the rest of the beam. After that would be aspheric type lights. Reflector based lights generally do not suffer from this as much as the nature of the collimation is to homogenize the beam which blends out some of these tiny hotspots. 



TEEJ said:


> ...I DO like more info for throw, IF the throw is to be USED for something.
> 
> IE: A laser beam might have super duper cd ratings...but really SUCK for long range searches....the spot of light is just too small.


I appreciate your hyperbole but you know very well that even the tightest of aspheric lights I have ever made for sale is no laser. Many people have found that beam type to be exceedingly useful. 



TEEJ said:


> If the cd was supplemented by a measurement of the beam angle, and perhaps a standard comparison range, maybe 500-800 meters or something...to provide the _width_ of that 0.25 (Or whatever) lux spot of light at that range...THEN I might not want or least need pics.


This is just not practical. I know what you are saying and I applaud your thinking this through as something like that would take measuring from extreme distances. I think beamshots are the better way to go here and as I said before they are important just not *the* most important spec. 



TEEJ said:


> If the throw is just for fun, well, back to the laser pointer beam patterns to get great range for the sake of claiming the longest throw, etc....and don't worry about what you'd SEE at that range.


The reflectored lights are anything but lasers. They have very good spot to spill characteristics and give a very nice field of view. That is not changed by these mods. 



TEEJ said:


> That said, Saabluster is a god of lux.


Sorry but I am a bit uncomfortable with that description. I know what you mean and thanks but I am not a god of anything. If anything I am but a servant.


----------



## kengps

Of course beamshots can be deceptive, and prove nothing as far as throw capability. I don't think anybody is waiting on a beamshot to prove/disprove throw. We want beamshots to show the quality of the spot, and the size comparison to the original flashlight. A 240,000 lux donut will not do. A huge reduction in spot size will not be acceptable to some. That is why we want beamshots. Has nothing to do with the Lux number. I think everyone trust Saab on the number.


----------



## saabluster

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Can't wait to see the pictures.
> 
> And I will disagree about the picture thing being deceiving if they are done in the correct consistent manual exposure of right at 1 sec shutter on the closer distance shots of say 75yds or less and 1.4 sec shutter for say for shots that are farther. It will give you a true to life comparison what you can more than likely see in person than not seeing any beamshots at all. Taken pictures anywhere that it is dark is a lot better than taken pictures in the city under a lot of lighting, too. Where I live there is no street lights and it is pure dark. So I am blessed. I have experimented enough on beamshots to feel very comfortable to say that what you see in my beamshots is what you get. I try to keep it as real as I can. And these settings I have found will do that on a consistent basis.



As I said it is extremely difficult but not impossible. What I have found in early testing of my new camera is that shooting in HDR mode renders a photo that looks significantly more like what my eyes see. I am just having a hard time making sure everything is just right and repeatable with this camera as there are so many options and the UI is atrocious. Some shooting options are only available on certain settings but I really need to be able to combine different ones to get exactly what I need.


----------



## bc5000

Saabluster, did you figure out what was causing the intermittent contact issue on the TN31? My Thrunite Scorpion was doing the same thing you described in the email although it hasn't done it in a while.


----------



## saabluster

bc5000 said:


> Saabluster, did you figure out what was causing the intermittent contact issue on the TN31? My Thrunite Scorpion was doing the same thing you described in the email although it hasn't done it in a while.





I am going to be putting up a thread on the TN31 and will explain it in more detail there. It appears ThruNite coated the aluminum on the battery carriers with something that increases the resistance and prevents good electrical contact. Quite ridiculous if you ask me. I went out last Friday and purchased some sandblasting equipment to remove this layer. I will update via email and the appropriate thread when finished.


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

saabluster said:


> In addition to this I will be from here on out shipping each light with a "certificate of performance" to show the actual measured candela of your light. This way you know exactly what you have.


SWEET! I was going to ask you to do something like that. I think you should also engrave or put a sticker on the light that says ur name or company or something.



saabluster said:


> So indeed I think it fair to say that those who have purchased are, with the supplied data and taking into consideration my reputation, ahead of the curve. Bravo to you. To those who want to wait to hear the first reports back from the wild I understand how you feel. But know that I do not bias my reports to you here. I am first and foremost a flashaholic. I didn't come to CPF to make a buck I came here because I love lights. I started making lights not because I wanted to make money but because people here asked me to and I love the craft. It has always been that way and will always be that way.


I would have got a TN31 already if I had the cash, or if you were willing to mod personal lights.


----------



## laur

Saabluster

Here is a tutorial for you RE: HDR photography:

http://www.stuckincustoms.com/hdr-tutorial/?ModPagespeed=noscript

Also I sent you several e-mails and you have not responded -- Please READ your e-mails.

Thanks,
laur


----------



## saabluster

laur said:


> Saabluster
> 
> Here is a tutorial for you RE: HDR photography:
> 
> http://www.stuckincustoms.com/hdr-tutorial/?ModPagespeed=noscript
> 
> Also I sent you several e-mails and you have not responded -- Please READ your e-mails.
> 
> Thanks,
> laur



Thanks for the link. Keep in mind that I do more than just make flashlights. I am a shepherd in my "church" which requires a good deal of my time and is purely a volunteer work. I am also a stay at home dad looking after a 20 month old and home schooling a 5 year old. In addition to that I had meetings this weekend and a graduation party for one of my sisters for which, as may be no surprise, I was in charge of lighting and had to make thirty lights to light up globes. Just been crazy busy. I usually reserve the nighttime after everyone is in bed to take care of the emailing.


----------



## bc5000

saabluster said:


> Thanks for the link. Keep in mind that I do more than just make flashlights. I am a shepherd in my "church" which requires a good deal of my time and is purely a volunteer work. I am also a stay at home dad looking after a 20 month old and home schooling a 5 year old. In addition to that I had meetings this weekend and a graduation party for one of my sisters for which, as may be no surprise, I was in charge of lighting and had to make thirty lights to light up globes. Just been crazy busy. I usually reserve the nighttime after everyone is in bed to take care of the emailing.



And lighting up hoodlums in the back alley if I remember right.


----------



## saabluster

Well I know many of you were probably expecting me to post pictures here in this thread but I felt it would turn this thread a little too much into a product page for me. Not that participation in this thread isn't appropriate but I think there is a limit. I have posted pics, albeit somewhat underexposed, in my new CPF sub-forum.


----------



## The_Driver

In a recent German beamshot comparison my 4000K de-domed VPT was compared to around 20 other powerful lights including the Olight SR-95 UT. Guess what: the VPT smoked the Olight. It throws farther and produces noticeably more lumens. The UT really disappointed me, it hardly does more lumens than some of the harder-driven XM-L based lights. 

The distance to the tress was around 60-70m. Unfortunately the white-balance was completely off, my light is not that warm. I think the exposure was 4s. Since somebody always had to hold the light some of the shots are a bit blurry. The laserpointer pointed to the spot, where the hotspot of each light was to be pointed.

The shots can be found here

The VPT specifically is here

The shot of the Olight is here

When you hold your mouse over a picture you can see what light it is. When you have opened one you can right-click on it for higher resolution versions of the same picture.


----------



## Fresh Light

Driver, I like what you guys did with the laser being in each shot. I imagine that helps aim the light and show the images are exposed equally. I don't care for the big Olights personally. They are too big, comparatively under-powered, and don't take replaceable cells. I owned a SR90 and traded it to Lambda recently for a project light that I'm waiting on. When he tore it open he was in disbelief of all the use of a small use of only brass, a very poor conductor of heat compared to copper or even aluminium. I do, however like their reflectors and appear to be quite durable. 

I told this story in another thread about a friend who went to a sportsman's show in Cleveland and was at the Olight booth seeing the SR90 for the first time. The guy from Olight hands him the light and says, 'the brightest LED light you can buy.' So my buddy lights it up and shine it around for a while and tells the guy it's pretty nice, but it's huge. 'How much is this thing,' he asked the guy and was told 450.00 (cheaper now I know). My friend proceeds to tell the guy that he has a Mag LED in his truck that is smaller and brighter than his 450.00 light, not to mention made in _'merica_. So, the guy tells him to go get it out of his truck and bring it in. So my buddy gets his VaraPower light, sets it to med-low setting (maybe 12 clicks up out of 37), and shines a spot on the ceiling. The guy from Olight says nothing but gave a told-you-so look. 'Oh wait, let me turn this up,' so he cranks up the VP light to max setting completely wipes out any semblance of a spot from the SR90. The salesman says, 'uhh...that's not a stock maglite is it??'. So my friend tells him, as people start looking over at this plain looking mag that's apparently burning a hole in the ceiling, 'No it's a magLED, and Oh, and uh I did put rechargeable batteries in it!':devil:


----------



## jfl

The_Driver said:


> In a recent German beamshot comparison my 4000K de-domed VPT was compared to around 20 other powerful lights including the Olight SR-95 UT. Guess what: the VPT smoked the Olight. It throws farther and produces noticeably more lumens. The UT really disappointed me, it hardly does more lumens than some of the harder-driven XM-L based lights.



Those are some amazing beamshots and the VPT is really great. I also liked the Polarion shots, but they confused me. Do you know why one of them is called "2x Polarion PH50?" I could be wrong, but I thought that light only had one power setting... Could the tester have used two lights at once?


----------



## TEEJ

The_Driver said:


> In a recent German beamshot comparison my 4000K de-domed VPT was compared to around 20 other powerful lights including the Olight SR-95 UT. Guess what: the VPT smoked the Olight. It throws farther and produces noticeably more lumens. The UT really disappointed me, it hardly does more lumens than some of the harder-driven XM-L based lights.
> 
> The distance to the tress was around 60-70m. Unfortunately the white-balance was completely off, my light is not that warm. I think the exposure was 4s. Since somebody always had to hold the light some of the shots are a bit blurry. The laserpointer pointed to the spot, where the hotspot of each light was to be pointed.
> 
> The shots can be found here
> 
> The VPT specifically is here
> 
> The shot of the Olight is here
> 
> When you hold your mouse over a picture you can see what light it is. When you have opened one you can right-click on it for higher resolution versions of the same picture.




Nice job, but at that range, a tight thrower will be underwhelming. For example, lumens are not really the primary issue for a thrower, the lux on target is...the cd is given more weight than the lumen output.

To really see what a thrower is made of, you need a target so far away that only a thrower can reach it.

For example, an aspheric lensed light with barely a few hundred lumens might have a range of 600-800 meters, but the spot of light is small....because all of those lumens are concentrated into a small area on the target.

A VPT, etc, with large lumen output can put a larger patch of light on a target...but not at as far a range as if that same amount of lumens were concentrated into a smaller patch, and so forth.

When using a close target for throw lights...the very lights that concentrate the lumens for better throw are going to simply put a very small amount of light on that close target. 

So a better test might have been a target or series of targets ~ 500-800 meters away. Lights that didn't reach the target(s) would simply show a black pic, etc...and whatever WAS illuminated for each light would define its range.


----------



## The_Driver

@Fresh Light: Thanks for your story, but I already saw it in the other thread. The heatsinking on the SR-90 is terrible. Somebody needs to take apart the SR-95, it's probably much better.

@jfl: We had 2 PH-50s and pointed them both at the target in the picture. 10000 real Lumens 

@TEEJ: I know what you mean concerning the distance. The problem was that we decided to do these spontaneously and we only had this range. You can still see how much lux the lights are doing though. The differences in the pictures might be a little more pronounced than in real life, but they are still relatively accurate. 

The really powerful thrower is a short-arc with a high pressure osram p-vip projector bulb at 120W. It uses the stock reflector housing which is extremely small at maybe 2.5 inches.


----------



## TEEJ

The_Driver said:


> @Fresh Light: Thanks for your story, but I already saw it in the other thread. The heatsinking on the SR-90 is terrible. Somebody needs to take apart the SR-95, it's probably much better.
> 
> @jfl: We had 2 PH-50s and pointed them both at the target in the picture. 10000 real Lumens
> 
> @TEEJ: I know what you mean concerning the distance. The problem was that we decided to do these spontaneously and we only had this range. You can still see how much lux the lights are doing though. The differences in the pictures might be a little more proniuonced than in real life, but they are still relatively accurate.
> 
> The really powerful thrower is a short-arc with a high pressure osram p-vip projector bulb at 120W. It uses the stock reflector housing which is extremely small at maybe 2.5 inches.



LOL - I know what you mean. When I want to shoot some beam shots...WHERE to shoot them is always an issue. 

A place like Arlington Cemetery...with incredibly long rows of evenly spaces markers, which would allow reference points for the range and beam width, etc, and IMHO be (technically) perfect for beam shots (Except for the macabre and legal problems, etc...)


----------



## BLUE LED

I think there might be a problem with that Olight SR95UT. My first SR95UT was under powered and did not throw very well. I sent it back for a replacement and the second one is close to my VPT Dedomed SST-90 cool white. My VPT wins, but only just.


----------



## The_Driver

BLUE LED said:


> I think there might be a problem with that Olight SR95UT. My first SR95UT was under powered and did not throw very well. I sent it back for a replacement and the second one is close to my VPT Dedomed SST-90 cool white. My VPT wins, but only just.



In real life the difference wasn't as big as the beamshots make it seem to be. It was a small difference. The problem is that the tints are soo different. 
My VPT (with UCL lens) was measured at around 200,000lux.


----------



## bigchelis

The_Driver said:


> In real life the difference wasn't as big as the beamshots make it seem to be. It was a small difference. The problem is that the tints are soo different.
> My VPT (with UCL lens) was measured at around 200,000lux.



I get about the same lux with the SR95UT I tried out.

I tested a Varapower with Factory dedomed SST-90 and copper heatsink some 2yrs ago and it net 2400 real OTF lumens with stock mag head. The fact that Lamdalights can generate up to 1000 more lumens might make it seem like it throws more but that SR90 emitter is freaking awesome at throwing and can keep up in SR95UT variant.

bigC


----------



## The_Driver

bigchelis said:


> I get about the same lux with the SR95UT I tried out.
> 
> I tested a Varapower with Factory dedomed SST-90 and copper heatsink some 2yrs ago and it net 2400 real OTF lumens with stock mag head. The fact that Lamdalights can generate up to 1000 more lumens might make it seem like it throws more but that SR90 emitter is freaking awesome at throwing and can keep up in SR95UT variant.
> 
> bigC



Well I know what I saw. The UT also had an extremely cool tint which makes everything look dead.
I think the UT is just not worth it. It's too big for what it does. The new modified Thrnite TN-31 does 240k, has a neutral tint, maybe 800-900 otf lumens and is much smaller (and cheaper).


----------



## ma_sha1

I just sold a SR95UT that measured at 211,000 [email protected] 1 meter. (10 meters/back calculation). I sold it at $300, a bargain for the UT. 

There might be similar issues as seen in previous SR90, where different users has gotten different SR90 with different performance levels. Would be nice if they measure the lux of each light as QC to reduce variability, but then no one will buy the lower lux units.

The SBT-90 die is awesome, just because a Turbo-charged 4 banger can go as fast a V8, doesn't mean there's no market for a natually aspirated V8. That's what the SBT-90 is vs. de-domed XML IMHO, it'll provide bigger spot. My DIY Elephants with CBT-90 produces pure white tint, the SBT-90 in the SR-95 UT I played with is cooler with a hint of blue. just a hint thou. 

Yes, the light is way to big. Still thinking about cutting one down, as the body is fat enough to hold 4x18650 running in 2S2P 7.2V. MY Elephant UT gets up to 15.5Amp, if that goes into the SR95 UT, it should get over 300K because the bigger 4" head on the SR95 UT.


----------



## The_Driver

ma_sha1 said:


> I just sold a SR95UT that measured at 211,000 [email protected] 1 meter. (10 meters/back calculation)
> 
> There might be similar issues as seen in previous SR90, where different users has gotten different SR90 with different performance levels.
> Would be nice if they measure the lux of each light as QC to reduce variability, but then no one will buy the lower lux units.



Ok, now thats a lot. Thats way more though than they spec it at (165,000).

I know of the SR-90s brightness variations. It sad really. It's also interesting that only Olight seems to be having these problems.
The light that I'm talking about performed just as one would expect given the specs.


----------



## CamoNinja

How does everyone feel on the new Eagletac's MZ25 and MX25 with the SST-90N will fair in the throw department ?


----------



## ma_sha1

the head is too small 2.4", the N-bin is a bin less than P-bin used in SR095 UT, the SST-90 is not Sbt-90, all 3 together, I expect less than 60K lux of throw @ 9 amp


----------



## ScaryFatKidGT

The_Driver said:


> In a recent German beamshot comparison my 4000K de-domed VPT was compared to around 20 other powerful lights including the Olight SR-95 UT. Guess what: the VPT smoked the Olight. It throws farther and produces noticeably more lumens. The UT really disappointed me, it hardly does more lumens than some of the harder-driven XM-L based lights.
> 
> The distance to the tress was around 60-70m. Unfortunately the white-balance was completely off, my light is not that warm. I think the exposure was 4s. Since somebody always had to hold the light some of the shots are a bit blurry. The laserpointer pointed to the spot, where the hotspot of each light was to be pointed.
> 
> The shots can be found here
> 
> The VPT specifically is here
> 
> The shot of the Olight is here
> 
> When you hold your mouse over a picture you can see what light it is. When you have opened one you can right-click on it for higher resolution versions of the same picture.


I wanna know what throws better a de-domed SST-90 or a SBT-90 or are they the same?

Yeah when they came out with the SR95 they made the reflector smaller so the SR-90 still has the biggest/best throwing SST-90 reflector. Idk is the new VPT's bigger?


----------



## Fresh Light

VPT2XP-2

After it has almost completely stopped raining I took a some beamshots of this light.


----------



## The_Driver

Those look amazing (although the hotspot seems very small). Don't you have any other lights for comparison shots?


----------



## ma_sha1

The smaller the die, the easier it is to make it throw, not surprising that the XPG2 VPT looks like quite a thrower. 
However, the smaller & smaller spot will make it less & less of an utility in practical situations.
Without comparasions of reference light at same camera setting, it's easy for reader walk away with a wrong idea of what a light really does & 
how one would translate "throw" into usefulness. 

*Example:*
XML U2 4.2A in DX head & 3" SMO (Same as VPT2 set-up with an XML but smaller body)

127,000 lux @ 1 meter:





Firefox 1, world's smallest 35W HID 
(I didn't measure the lux of this light, but I had two other FF1 later measured 100K & 115K lux respectively)






The XML light has higher throw than the small HID, but it lost in this evaluation due to it's limited spot & corona size:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Battle-in-the-woods-XML-King-of-Throw-vs-HIDs

Imagine the XPG2 in the same head & reflector, it'll probably have higher lux than the XML but even smaller spot illumination area coverage. 
The same goes to de-dome XML which reduce spot size, smaller area coverage will reduce utility as the spot of XML with dome in a 3" head already looks too small for certain applications.


----------



## AutoTech

Anyway, back to my thread... lol, only over a year ago! Not been around much, set myself up with so many lights I needed to step away from the scene for a bit before my postman got fed up with the sight of me!


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

ma sha1,

Awesome pictures. 

Here's the stats of the photos if anyone wants to know. 

*Basic Image Information*


Camera:Fujifilm FinePix F70EXRLens:5 mm
(Max aperture f/3.2)Exposure:Manual exposure, 1 sec, f/3.3, ISO 200Flash:Off, Did not fireFocus:Auto
Focus point highlight: [ click to hide ]Date:*December 1, 2009* 3:54:01AM (timezone not specified)
(2 years, 9 months, 19 days, 6 hours, 20 minutes, 39 seconds ago, assuming image timezone of US Pacific)
File:*480 × 640* JPEG 
154,184 bytes (0.15 megabytes) Image compression: 83%
10% crop of the 2,048 × 1,536 (3.1 megapixel) original


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

AutoTech said:


> Anyway, back to my thread... lol, only over a year ago! Not been around much, set myself up with so many lights I needed to step away from the scene for a bit before my postman got fed up with the sight of me!



LOL Welcome back.....what a great thread you have created. Lots of great throwers around to spend your money on.


----------



## Fresh Light

The_Driver said:


> Those look amazing (although the hotspot seems very small). Don't you have any other lights for comparison shots?


Same light posted on post 1180 but this was right after a rain and still some precipitation in the air with higher humidity. These are fairly accurate to what this light really looked like in those conditions. Compare here to the XML version. The XML I have is more of a NW tint and provides more spill. But this is the best throwing flashlight using a reflector that I have used to date. Ma_sha brings up a good point, best thrower doesn't mean best light. But that's why we all have so many otherwise we'd buy that perfect light and be done. I actually bought the XML version and received the XPG2 for evaluation and to play around with, but I like it so much that I had to buy it as well. They complement each other well in their usefulness. I'll try it again when there is some mist in the air with the aspheric installed instead. There will be a build in October for those looking to get in one made to their liking.


----------



## ma_sha1

OMFG, so much info. extracted from my photo that I don't know off. 
The date & time was off, I don't even know how to set the date of that camera. No I wasn't out at 4AM doing beam shots, LOL

Thank god that I didn't post iPhone photos, you'd find out where I live 





ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> ma sha1,
> 
> Awesome pictures.
> 
> Here's the stats of the photos if anyone wants to know.
> 
> *Basic Image Information*
> 
> 
> Camera:Fujifilm FinePix F70EXRLens:5 mm
> (Max aperture f/3.2)Exposure:Manual exposure, 1 sec, f/3.3, ISO 200Flash:Off, Did not fireFocus:Auto
> Focus point highlight: [ click to hide ]Date:*December 1, 2009* 3:54:01AM (timezone not specified)
> (2 years, 9 months, 19 days, 6 hours, 20 minutes, 39 seconds ago, assuming image timezone of US Pacific)
> File:*480 × 640* JPEG
> 154,184 bytes (0.15 megabytes) Image compression: 83%
> 10% crop of the 2,048 × 1,536 (3.1 megapixel) original


----------



## saabluster

Fresh Light said:


> VPT2XP-2
> 
> After it has almost completely stopped raining I took a some beamshots of this light.


What is the distance on that shot? Looks crazy powerful.


----------



## Fresh Light

saabluster said:


> What is the distance on that shot? Looks crazy powerful.



This is from 337' to pole.





The only other light that I have that appears to throw this well is your DEFT. I guess the dedomed VPTs I have are 200K lux but they still throw quite a bit of spill. This light runs on 3c NiMH. BigC has the sister to this light that is in the 109LED host like your DEFT and quite the sleeper I would imagine. The one I have is the all out full scale 3cN2d. One thing about the model I have is that the MagLED host permits a bit of focusing to get a tighter beam pattern. I look forward to testing your model when they get done!


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

ma sha1,

That's just a little tool I use to check shutter speeds to see if the photos are say up to par for reality to what you see in person. When you get a laserbeam all the way to the object, more times than not your looking at a photo taken in auto exposure with a longer shutter speed vs a manual shot.

On this one I can't check because of this.






But I can almsot guarantee that is a way slower shutter speed than 1 sec. 

*Basic Image Information*


File:
*450 × 800* JPEG 
34,656 bytes (0.033 megabytes) Image compression: 97%
Color Encoding:
*WARNING:* No color-space metadata and no embedded color profile: *Windows and Mac web browsers treat colors randomly*.
Images for the web are most widly viewable when in the sRGB color space and with an embedded color profile. See my Introduction to Digital-Image Color Spaces for more information.


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Heck I can make a Dereelight look like a laserbeam almost in auto exposure with a 2.8 sec shutter. But this is not what you see in person. But it will prove the point. It's probably 350yds to that house.






*Basic Image Information*


Camera:
Fujifilm FinePix S8000 fd
Lens:
4.7 mm
(Max aperture f/2.8)
Exposure:
Auto exposure, Landscape, 2.8 sec, f/2.8, ISO 200
Flash:
Off, Did not fire
Date:
*February 19, 2012* 12:21:21AM (timezone not specified)
(7 months, 1 day, 16 hours, 18 minutes, 4 seconds ago, assuming image timezone of US Pacific)

File:
*480 × 640* JPEG 
14,411 bytes (0.014 megabytes) Image compression: 98%


----------



## Fresh Light

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> ma sha1,
> 
> That's just a little tool I use to check shutter speeds to see if the photos are say up to par for reality to what you see in person. When you get a laserbeam all the way to the object, more times than not your looking at a photo taken in auto exposure with a longer shutter speed vs a manual shot.
> 
> On this one I can't check because of this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I can almsot guarantee that is a way slower shutter speed than 1 sec.
> 
> *Basic Image Information*
> 
> 
> File:*450 × 800* JPEG
> 34,656 bytes (0.033 megabytes) Image compression: 97%Color Encoding:*WARNING:* No color-space metadata and no embedded color profile: *Windows and Mac web browsers treat colors randomly*.
> Images for the web are most widly viewable when in the sRGB color space and with an embedded color profile. See my Introduction to Digital-Image Color Spaces for more information.



Here is the Exif data


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

That's a point and shoot camera with automatic exposure only.


*Exposure *
Max Shutter Speed
1/2000 sec
Min Shutter Speed
4 sec
Exposure compensation
±3 EV range, in 1/3 EV steps
Exposure Metering
Center-Weighted, Matrix
Exposure Modes
Automatic, Program
Light Sensitivity
ISO auto (80-1600)
Light Sensitivity Max
1600


So it will overexpose the image typically vs using a manual exposure camera.


----------



## Fresh Light

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> That's a point and shoot camera with automatic exposure only.
> 
> 
> *Exposure *Max Shutter Speed1/2000 secMin Shutter Speed4 secExposure compensation±3 EV range, in 1/3 EV stepsExposure MeteringCenter-Weighted, MatrixExposure ModesAutomatic, ProgramLight SensitivityISO auto (80-1600)Light Sensitivity Max1600
> 
> So it will overexpose the image typically vs using a manual exposure camera.



Are you seeing the Exif Data I am posting here? It clearly says only one second exposure. Had it been 2.8s like your deerelight picture it would certainly be overexposed. The images are how they are and that is the way I want them because that is the way it looked to me. I feel that if somebody takes the time to take beamshots then I give them a pat on the back and take it with a grain of salt. Ie., that is their style and listen to their impressions. This light or any of the other VPT lights are driven far beyond the level of manufactured lights, I've had them and this is better.


----------



## DHmtbykr

Fresh Light said:


> Are you seeing the Exif Data I am posting here? It clearly says only one second exposure. Had it been 2.8s like your deerelight picture it would certainly be overexposed. The images are how they are and that is the way I want them because that is the way it looked to me. I feel that if somebody takes the time to take beamshots then I give them a pat on the back and take it with a grain of salt. Ie., that is their style and listen to their impressions. This light or any of the other VPT lights are driven far beyond the level of manufactured lights, I've had them and this is better.



yeah but your using iso 1600, he had his camera set to 200, plus apertures were really close.


----------



## Fresh Light

DHmtbykr said:


> yeah but your using iso 1600, he had his camera set to 200, plus apertures were really close.


True, but his claim was only that I had used longer than a 1 sec exposure. I proved that I did not. I have other photos of this light and others here without the visible beam. The entire point of this was that it had just rained and the air was still heavy with moisture and I wanted to take a cool shot. Welcome, btw!


----------



## TEEJ

LOL - You can go in circles indefinitely on comparability of the pics...but the bottom line is always going to be that at this site, due to the resolution limitations, and due to the lack of calibration of monitors, what a specific canon model CCD sees vs a specific Sony and its circuitry sees, and so forth......what shows on the monitor of other people, here, is a crap shoot.

If I shoot at f8 for example, I can't even see light in the camera viewfinder screen...I have nothing to aim at....even though my eyes can see quite clearly. This means that if I shoot at f2.0, I might be able to see the target, but because my f stop moves up as I zoom in (to f 5.9 iirc on full telephoto....), as I try to zoom in on what I see, I stop being able to see it...its all just dark on the screen.

If I get it adjusted so on flickr, etc, it looks about right, its almost always darker on CPF posts for dim shots, and brighter for close up/better lit shots.

I then have to go back, and RE-Tweak pics to look like my notes said they should look when I was there taking the pics. IE: I write down what was illuminated for the shot, what was visible, what wasn't. A note that the 6th telephone pole was bright, the 7th was visible but dim, and the 8th was not visible, etc, means I adjust the pics if they show too much or not enough of what the eyes saw. It might not be exact....but neither is everyone's night adapted vision, etc, either.

I add control pics of the scene with no lights, and sometimes what a camera flash lit pic looks like.

That way, if there is say an ambient light in the scene, say whats added by moonlight or a street light, you can see what that looks like to compare. If the street light's bulb looks like it did in the control scene and the flashlight beamshot...the exposure should be about right, and so forth.

So, sure there might be some artifacts using the above, but at least a shot that was in reality lighting up the poles out to the 6th and barely the 7th won't LOOK LIKE the flashlight was lighting up the 7th and 8th, etc. What the eyes saw, object-wise at least, will be representative of what is posted.


----------



## Fresh Light

This thread is a thowers thread not a photography thread. Thank you TEEJ for the insight. A crap shoot it what it is. Huge difference between me lighting up a field with a 4000 lumen Hydra and 800 lumen xpg2 thrower. It's all about the abount of light that gets back to the CCD and a point source is less ideal. Now back to the lights!


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Well I wan't meaning to put down Fresh Lights efforts on his point and shoot camera. But 1 sec auto sure beats what others may use. But truly the best way to take beamshots outdoors at nite is with a camera with manual exposure so that way you can select the shutter speed and not have the camera select what it wants.


----------



## Chicago X

The shutter speed is meaningless without aperture and ISO data.


----------



## Fresh Light

Moderators, this thread was misdirected by photography technique that belongs in the Dark Room forum. If you want to remove any of my posts please do as needed to get this back about flashlights and not the former. Thank you.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Fresh Light said:


> Moderators, this thread was misdirected by photography technique that belongs in the Dark Room forum. If you want to remove any of my posts please do as needed to get this back about flashlights and not the former. Thank you.



Well, it is AutoTech's thread, and he just piped in yesterday with no complaints about how the thread is going. Let's assume, for now, that the thread has sort of evolved to the point where issues of photography and throwers are important, and let it go at that.

Bill


----------



## Fresh Light

Well I traded my SLR last year. Maybe I'll have to get a new one for beamshots. I've always liked the Nikon cameras, but wouldn't mind a Canon or something like that.


----------



## luceat lux vestra

one way to get around a zooming in with a camera, is to put the camera only a few yards from the object being illuminated, while the light is 100 or however many yards away. That way you have a more accurate depiction of lux and not just having the flood bleaching out your picture?


----------



## climberkid

Fresh Light said:


> Well I traded my SLR last year. Maybe I'll have to get a new one for beamshots. I've always liked the Nikon cameras, but wouldn't mind a Canon or something like that.



You trade it for lights? :candle:


----------



## Fresh Light

luceat lux vestra said:


> one way to get around a zooming in with a camera, is to put the camera only a few yards from the object being illuminated, while the light is 100 or however many yards away. That way you have a more accurate depiction of lux and not just having the flood bleaching out your picture?



I have been wanting to try that technique with this view: set it up and radio over when to turn on the light.







I now have several lights that will light up this garage to the eye, but would like to be at the garage taking the picture of what that looks like 




ISO 1600 Aperature 3.1 Exposure 1.0s


----------



## Fresh Light

climberkid said:


> You trade it for lights? :candle:



No actually, it was for a piece of furnature. I got this really nice handbuilt table from some one that always wanted a nice camera and I really liked the table that he built so I offered it with a couple lenses and we were both happy.


----------



## TEEJ

I replaced my Nikon with a Canon, and the Canon is a lot better for beam shots...better lenses in Canon than for Nikon from what I can tell.

Regarding beam shots to tell what you'd see if you used the light...you are looking at what the light is shining on from the vantage point of the light. That means that the picture of the target taken close up WILL show in more detail what the lux on target produces....which IS valuable...

..But it will not show what you would see from the light, such as whether the field on the way out TO the target is lit up, or if things to the side of the target are also lit up, etc...or if the floodiness washed out your vision so you couldn't really take advantage of the lux on target, etc.

Ideally, I'd want BOTH shots.  (A flashaholic response is to want both when presented with two options...so it must be the correct answer.)


----------



## Fresh Light

Well I will plan something out in the new few weeks or so to get probably a Canon SLR, thank you for the suggestion, and try taking a few different ways. I'd like to get some beam shots from at least 500 yards if possible. But I lease that field in that photo out to a farmer, who currently has corn planted. His crops did very well so good for him but challenging for taking beamshots until he harvests it.


----------



## luceat lux vestra

Does anyone have a beam shot comparison of a stock and a saabluster modded thrunite tn31, and how about lux meter or lumen meter reading?
I am itching for a killer thrower and this is looking really good!


----------



## luceat lux vestra

Ok i'm a retard! I just found this http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?138-OMG-Lumens-OneStopThrowShop
DER DER


----------



## luceat lux vestra

Come on guys don't make me the killer of the 43 page thread!!!:nana:


----------



## luceat lux vestra

Big old bumpski


----------



## bc5000

luceat lux vestra said:


> Does anyone have a beam shot comparison of a stock and a saabluster modded thrunite tn31, and how about lux meter or lumen meter reading?
> I am itching for a killer thrower and this is looking really good!



There was a TN31 thread at the link you provided but it looks like he removed it for some reason.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

bc5000 said:


> There was a TN31 thread at the link you provided but it looks like he removed it for some reason.




I have the modded Saabluster TN31 coming this week as I have been told by Saabluster.

I also already own the original TN31 and I will do some beam shots when the weather allows under a large bridge near me.

My current TN31 is very bright with a small clean spot and keeps up with my Olight SR90, so it will be interesting to see what Saabluster has been able to do with his magic mods.

It has plenty of big wide concrete columns underneath spaced evenly to compare the distances reasonably accurately when viewed at the angle where I normally would park my car to look at the nice scenery in the daytime.

The bridge is over a bay and is about 800 meters long and the concrete columns reflect light back reasonably well as they are light grey in apperance.

This should be the perfect length for thrower beam comparisons.

That should do the job nicely.

The bridge is going nowhere in the future so repeated comparisons at the same exposures should be pretty well controlled.

I know how to do the photos as I used to have my own photographic business some years ago back in the days of actual film cameras and had my own minilab to do our own processing, so I know a thing or two about aperture settings, shutter speed, ISO, depth of field and existing light photography and long time shutter exposures etc.

The main thing is that when comparing lights, the weather conditions and settings of the camera have to be exactly the same on a camera that allows full manual control preferably on the same night so as not to fool the reader and state what your EXIF settings were on that night.


Cheers


----------



## Xmldriver

What's the top three xml thrower under $100 currently?


----------



## laur

bc5000 said:


> There was a TN31 thread at the link you provided but it looks like he removed it for some reason.



Yes, this was moved (I don't know for what purpose). The correct website URL is:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?344443-Modified-TN31

laur


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Oztorchfreak said:


> I have the modded Saabluster TN31 coming this week as I have been told by Saabluster.
> 
> I also already own the original TN31 and I will do some beam shots when the weather allows under a large bridge near me.
> 
> My current TN31 is very bright with a small clean spot and keeps up with my Olight SR90, so it will be interesting to see what Saabluster has been able to do with his magic mods.
> 
> It has plenty of big wide concrete columns underneath spaced evenly to compare the distances reasonably accurately when viewed at the angle where I normally would park my car to look at the nice scenery in the daytime.
> 
> The bridge is over a bay and is about 800 meters long and the concrete columns reflect light back reasonably well as they are light grey in apperance.
> 
> This should be the perfect length for thrower beam comparisons.
> 
> That should do the job nicely.
> 
> The bridge is going nowhere in the future so repeated comparisons at the same exposures should be pretty well controlled.
> 
> I know how to do the photos as I used to have my own photographic business some years ago back in the days of actual film cameras and had my own minilab to do our own processing, so I know a thing or two about aperture settings, shutter speed, ISO, depth of field and existing light photography and long time shutter exposures etc.
> 
> The main thing is that when comparing lights, the weather conditions and settings of the camera have to be exactly the same on a camera that allows full manual control preferably on the same night so as not to fool the reader and state what your EXIF settings were on that night.
> 
> 
> Cheers



[h=3][/h]For the thousands in attendance and the millions watching around the world...

TN31 stock VS TN31 SB


That will be very interesting...


----------



## Blitzwing

Xmldriver said:


> What's the top three xml thrower under $100 currently?



That's the question on everyone's lips ATM I think.

I gather the Crelant 7G5 with the aspheric head has to be up there somewhere?


----------



## AutoTech

Bullzeyebill said:


> Well, it is AutoTech's thread, and he just piped in yesterday with no complaints about how the thread is going. Let's assume, for now, that the thread has sort of evolved to the point where issues of photography and throwers are important, and let it go at that.
> 
> Bill



Well put sir.

So, it's Autumn here in England now.. The dark afternoon's and mornings are stirring my flashaholic blood. I might have to get my Tiablo aspheric back out to play.

I was trying to rack my brain for what it was saablaster was being encouraged to modify about a year ago, one of the little off the shelf throwers. Was it a Dereelight? Did this ever happen?


----------



## jorn

Got my saab modded fandyfire stl-v6 today. Dident look that bright at first (still daylight), but that was until i put it side by side with the hound dog xm-l and masterpice pro-1. Oh yeah, now it looked bright lol. 
A certificate of preformance was in the box, hand signed saying: 112Kcd ambient temp 77F. I don't doubt those numbers. It might even be better here way up in the cold arctic  It's my new (and neutraltinted) throw toy  Same sized hotspot as my masterpice pro-1, but brighter, got wider spill, and no rings in the beampattern:thumbsup: The corona around the hotspot is kind of funky and uneven (on a white wall). I was prepared for a way more funky beampattern with a dedomed led. I dident like the lo modes. the pwm is sloooooo, slowest pwm i have seen so far. But i dident buy this light for the lo modes, so i guess im ok with the "disco slo" med-lo mode pwm. (if i wave it around fast, i dont see a hotspot moving on the wall, only 6-7 dots on the wall. it's that slo.) High mode rocks big time  And it seems like it got mode memory.


----------



## Diablo_331

jorn said:


> Got my saab modded fandyfire stl-v6 today. Dident look that bright at first (still daylight), but that was until i put it side by side with the hound dog xm-l and masterpice pro-1. Oh yeah, now it looked bright lol.
> A certificate of preformance was in the box, hand signed saying: 112Kcd ambient temp 77F. I don't doubt those numbers. It might even be better here way up in the cold arctic  It's my new (and neutraltinted) throw toy  Same sized hotspot as my masterpice pro-1, but brighter, got wider spill, and no rings in the beampattern:thumbsup: The corona around the hotspot is kind of funky and uneven (on a white wall). I was prepared for a way more funky beampattern with a dedomed led. I dident like the lo modes. the pwm is sloooooo, slowest pwm i have seen so far. But i dident buy this light for the lo modes, so i guess im ok with the "disco slo" med-lo mode pwm. (if i wave it around fast, i dont see a hotspot moving on the wall, only 6-7 dots on the wall. it's that slo.) High mode rocks big time  And it seems like it got mode memory.



I received mine about a week ago. Mine is 115kcd. I agree with everything else you said. This seems to be a great buy for the money if you're looking for a thrower.


----------



## jorn

Also got some xp-g2's today. Want to put one in the mp-1 head. Since it's been dwarfed... See if it still can keep some of it's throw, but with a smoother beam. The dedomed newcommer spoiled me


----------



## Tatjanamagic

jorn said:


> Got my saab modded fandyfire stl-v6 today. Dident look that bright at first (still daylight), but that was until i put it side by side with the hound dog xm-l and masterpice pro-1. Oh yeah, now it looked bright lol.
> A certificate of preformance was in the box, hand signed saying: 112Kcd ambient temp 77F. I don't doubt those numbers. It might even be better here way up in the cold arctic  It's my new (and neutraltinted) throw toy  Same sized hotspot as my masterpice pro-1, but brighter, got wider spill, and no rings in the beampattern:thumbsup: The corona around the hotspot is kind of funky and uneven (on a white wall). I was prepared for a way more funky beampattern with a dedomed led. I dident like the lo modes. the pwm is sloooooo, slowest pwm i have seen so far. But i dident buy this light for the lo modes, so i guess im ok with the "disco slo" med-lo mode pwm. (if i wave it around fast, i dont see a hotspot moving on the wall, only 6-7 dots on the wall. it's that slo.) High mode rocks big time  And it seems like it got mode memory.



Glad that U R happy with fandyfire... 

I also prefer high mode only on thrower flashlight...

I like low-high modes on EDC 1×AA or 1×AAA throwers because they save battery

Please if U can measure how many minutes fandyfire can take on high mode until it starts to loose brightness significantly...

Because some lights can take only few minutes on high and than they start with significant brightness drop... (10-15% and more)


----------



## jorn

havent seen any drop yet. (Exept my eyes getting used to the lux, and change to a higher f.stop hehe) I would notice if it dropped down to a loer mode with that dredded pwm..


----------



## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS

Do you guys have any pictures of beamshots with your FandyFires? I'm very seriously thinking of buying this light for my birthday this month. Sounds like you guys are happy.


----------



## mvyrmnd

Well, I just did this to my EL ST90:







I have no way of measuring the output of the light. It doesn't look significantly dimmer overall, but the hotspot is MUCH tighter and brighter. Some have said over 200K lux from these if they've been de-domed, and I can't see any reason to not believe this number. It smashes every other light I own.


----------



## BLUE LED

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS said:


> Do you guys have any pictures of beamshots with your FandyFires? I'm very seriously thinking of buying this light for my birthday this month. Sounds like you guys are happy.



I too am very tempted by the FandyFire.


----------



## BLUE LED

jorn said:


> Also got some xp-g2's today. Want to put one in the mp-1 head. Since it's been dwarfed... See if it still can keep some of it's throw, but with a smoother beam. The dedomed newcommer spoiled me



Let us know how you get on. I am hoping that the XP-G2 will focus properly in your MP-1 reflector.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

mvyrmnd said:


> Well, I just did this to my EL ST90:
> 
> I have no way of measuring the output of the light. It doesn't look significantly dimmer overall, but the hotspot is MUCH tighter and brighter. Some have said over 200K lux from these if they've been de-domed, and I can't see any reason to not believe this number. It smashes every other light I own.



How to de-dome without damaging led? Maybe I try that with deerelight...


----------



## mvyrmnd

Tatjanamagic said:


> How to de-dome without damaging led? Maybe I try that with deerelight...



I used a sharp knife and gently lifted it from one side until I saw air come under the dome, then pop it off from the other side.

Others say to use a small pair of pliers and twist it off gently.

Either way, slowly and gently


----------



## Tiresius

Does this counts once I'm done?


----------



## The_Driver

Tatjanamagic said:


> How to de-dome without damaging led? Maybe I try that with deerelight...



The light he is talking about (Elektrolumens Search & Rescue) uses an SST-90 led form the company Luminus. The leds from this company are very easy to de-dome. They actually sell their leds without a dome (SST-90 without dome = SBT-90). 
Cree LEDs (like XP-G, XM-L etc) are much more difficult to de-dome, but are more efficient.


----------



## jorn

BLUE LED said:


> Let us know how you get on. I am hoping that the XP-G2 will focus properly in your MP-1 reflector.


Only had 20.. and 10mm.. So couldent fit one inside the pill. Tested with putting the reflector on top of the star and just feed the led dd from a cr123. Focuses just fine when you put the reflector directly on top of the led, with only a thin layer of tape to insulate the led from the reflector. So i guess i would have to skip the orgiginal alu centering/protective/heatsink ring that is treaded over the led and is in contact with the huge reflector. Smaller hotspot than original. Huge bright corona (superdeep reflector). Almost like having 2 hotspots in one light. One tiny bright one, and one huge but dimmer one. Mutch cleaner beampattern than the super ringy xr-e. Did like the big and bright corona. Did not like that the hotspot shrinked. Had a brighter hotsppt than the houndog xm-l when running dd on a 4sevens cr123. It might have some potential if driven properly. Will keep the xr-e in the mp-1.


----------



## mvyrmnd

A beamshot!

My freshly de-domed ST90. The tree is 125m away. 1sec exposure ISO800


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Now that's just awsome.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

mvyrmnd said:


> A beamshot!
> 
> My freshly de-domed ST90. The tree is 125m away. 1sec exposure ISO800



That is a nice shot.

What light is the SST90 installed in?

The only problem with this type of single beam shot is that we can all see the beam profile but have nothing to gauge the output of the light by.

If I took a picture of a fish that I caught and it was huge unless someone had their hand near it or put a ruler or a lighter next to it for all I know it could be a sardine.

You get what I mean here don't you?

If you took a second beam shot using the same settings and location with a known flashlight it would be easier to compare the two shots given that you now have a reference light to go by.

The other light could be a standard Olight SR51, Olight SR90 or whatever as we can look up the lumens of any light that you use as a reference to see how much brighter your de-domed SST-90 really is.

At the moment this photo is only showing the beam profile and maybe that is all you meant to show us, but if it was me I would have a reference light in the same shot to show off the de-domed output to my friends.

Please don't bite my head off as I am only going on my own experiences with lighting and photography and what my eyes see and my brain interprets.

In this one single beam shot you can make an EDC look like a HID by brightening the shot using a multitude of camera settings. 

I am not trying to rain on your parade as I am just offering some constructive criticism.



Cheers


----------



## mvyrmnd

The light is an Elektrolumens ST90 (I had typed ST90 on purpose, it was not a mistype of SST-90). I understand your points, but have only floody lights to compare with. 

That's why I included the distance and exposure settings to give the best idea of the actual brightness. It looks in the photo very much as it does in real life.

I'm well aware of the pitfalls of beamshot photography (I'm not as green as I'm cabbage looking), this was offered as little more than a cool pic, not as a comparison shot.

As for fiddling with the photo after the fact - that's what EXIF data is for.


----------



## The_Driver

@mvyrmnd: thanks for the nice beamshot 
I looks very similar to my de-domed Varapower Turbo (less runtime, more current). I would say it's a bit overexposed (the spill in front especially). Do you agree?
The thing that tells one that it is probably de-domed is the very concentrated spot even though the spill is so wide.


----------



## mvyrmnd

It's overexposed in the foreground, yes. I was experimenting with a 1sec shutter speed, mostly, and posted this as it was a decent result. It probably could have been 3/4 second and been just about perfect.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

mvyrmnd said:


> It's overexposed in the foreground, yes. I was experimenting with a 1sec shutter speed, mostly, and posted this as it was a decent result. It probably could have been 3/4 second and been just about perfect.



I know how hard it is when you don't have a comparison light to do these shots.

I just took some shots out the front of my house looking up the street footpath and I did some comparisons shots as well.

Will post when I get them ready.


Cheers


----------



## Oztorchfreak

Oztorchfreak said:


> I know how hard it is when you don't have a comparison light to do these shots.
> 
> 
> I just took some shots out the front of my house looking up the street pathway.
> 
> I will post when I get them ready.
> 
> 
> Cheers




Please excuse the streetlight behind the tree as I could not move it out of the way for my photos.

The garage door that I am aiming for at the top of my street is approximately 150M away.

The tree is only 20M away.

I have two lights in my photos.

1 x Varapower 4 X D Cell Turbo 2 De-domed SST-90 6500k Nustar Copper Bonded 180Kcd.

1 x Olight SR50 41Kcd.

*No 1*





*No 2*



*
*

Below is a set of two lights shining at the same tree. 

The light on the left is the Varapower Turbo 2.

The light on the right is the Olight SR50.

Starting from lowest to highest exposures. ASA 400, F7.1 starting at 1/2, 1, 2, 4 ,and 8 seconds of shutter exposure time.




* 

What did you think of the top two photos in this post?

That Varapower Turbo 2 really puts some light out!





Photo No 2 is the Varapower Turbo 2 6500k Nustar Copper Bonded Flashlight.

The photo of the Olight SR50 is overexposed by 3 stops. (No 1)

The photo of the Varapower Turbo 2 is underexposed by 3 stops. (No 2)

That's around six times the difference between those two photos!

**I might have fooled some people in those two shots.**


Camera settings can play tricks on people, and that is why the tree comparison shots or any comparisons in the same shot are better.


The point that I am trying to make in this post is that one photo alone can be deceiving and played around with to look great.

Two lights or more pointing at a similar distance will easily show you how much brighter the best one is because the shot is taken using the same settings and the lights were both in the same shot when the camera button was pressed!



The "ACTUAL" long time exposure shots (8 seconds) of the two lights are below.


The Olight SR50 at ASA 400, F7.1 at 8 seconds.*






*
The Varapower Turbo 2 De-domed SST-90 6500K at ASA 400, F7.1 at 8 seconds.
*





*
Cheers
*


----------



## The_Driver

Thanks for the nice pictures 
You fooled me too, but only partly. I knew there was something wrong in the pictures because the white/grey thing that the hotspots are shining on a the the end of the path is the same brightness in both pictures. This doesn't make sense though since the VPT does way more lux, but thats a very small difference....


----------



## saabluster

Well there is a new thrower on the scene. The L3 Illumination K40. A bit smaller than the TN-31 but appears to be made by the exact same manufacturer. I measured the stock throw at 99Kcd.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

saabluster said:


> Well there is a new thrower on the scene. The L3 Illumination K40. A bit smaller than the TN-31 but appears to be made by the exact same manufacturer. I measured the stock throw at 99Kcd.



Yeah I have been checking this out, thanks for the info. How do you find the beam pattern compared to the stock TN31? How is the build quality and could this be a potential new item in OneStopThrowShop?


----------



## cyclesport

saabluster said:


> Well there is a new thrower on the scene. The L3 Illumination K40. A bit smaller than the TN-31 but appears to be made by the exact same manufacturer. I measured the stock throw at 99Kcd.



Been lusting after your modded throwers for awhile saabluster. Perhaps I missed it elsewhere, but is it your intent to mod the The L3 Illumination K40 and add it to your offerings as well?

lol...luminositykilledthecat beat me with the same query...


----------



## BLUE LED

A potential news host perhaps. I too am wondering about the quality of the L3 Illumination K40.


----------



## Yourfun2

On another thread Saabluster said it wasn't a bad light. Though smaller so not as much throw. Same UI but ring a little sticky. Sounded like it has the same lousy coating on the inside. May be an opportunity for Sandblaster to improve the characteristics of yet another light.


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Yourfun2 said:


> On another thread Saabluster said it wasn't a bad light. Though smaller so not as much throw. Same UI but ring a little sticky. Sounded like it has the same lousy coating on the inside. May be an opportunity for *Sandblaster* to improve the characteristics of yet another light.



There it is again. LOL


----------



## Tatjanamagic

AAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate de-doming... 

I will never and ever de-dome again... I screwed up deerelight R2 emitter with scalpel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It does not work any more... 

Don't laugh at me it is not funny...


----------



## TEEJ

Tatjanamagic said:


> AAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I hate de-doming...
> 
> I will never and ever de-dome again... I screwed up deerelight R2 emitter with scalpel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> It does not work any more...
> 
> Don't laugh at me it is not funny...




Sorry man...that sucks. Don't use a scalpel...too sharp.


----------



## Adrenaline_6

saabluster said:


> Well there is a new thrower on the scene. The L3 Illumination K40. A bit smaller than the TN-31 but appears to be made by the exact same manufacturer. I measured the stock throw at 99Kcd.


Will you be modding these now? That would bring down your overhead cost and allow us guys with a smaller budget the chance to get a light as good as your modded TN31 for that much better a price.


----------



## TEEJ

Oztorchfreak said:


> Please excuse the streetlight behind the tree as I could not move it out of the way for my photos.
> 
> The garage door that I am aiming for at the top of my street is approximately 150M away.
> 
> The tree is only 20M away.
> 
> I have two lights in my photos.
> 
> 1 x Varapower 4 X D Cell Turbo 2 De-domed SST-90 6500k Nustar Copper Bonded 180Kcd.
> 
> 1 x Olight SR50 41Kcd.
> 
> *No 1*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *No 2*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> Below is a set of two lights shining at the same tree.
> 
> The light on the left is the Varapower Turbo 2.
> 
> The light on the right is the Olight SR50.
> 
> Starting from lowest to highest exposures. ASA 400, F7.1 starting at 1/2, 1, 2, 4 ,and 8 seconds of shutter exposure time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> What did you think of the top two photos in this post?
> 
> That Varapower Turbo 2 really puts some light out!
> 
> I might have fooled some people in those two shots.
> 
> Photo No 2 is the Varapower Turbo 2 6500k Nustar Copper Bonded Flashlight?
> 
> The photo of the Olight SR50 is overexposed by 3 stops. (No 1)
> 
> The photo of the Varapower is underexposed by 3 stops. (No 2)
> 
> That's around six times the difference between those two photos!
> 
> 
> Camera settings can play tricks on people, and that is why the tree comparison shots or any comparisons in the same shot are better.
> 
> The real long exposure shots of the two lights are below.
> 
> 
> The Olight SR50 at ASA 400, F7.1 at 8 seconds.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> The Varapower Turbo 2 6500K at ASA 400, F7.1 at 8 seconds.
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Cheers
> *




EXCELLENT demonstration of the differences in exposure for beam shots, really good job!

This is one of the reasons I take notes with the shots to make sure I know what was, and what wasn't visible for each shot.

That way, I can note the furthest illuminated object, and what was visible to the sides, and what was barely or only dimly visible...could I tell leaves from mass foliage, see the fence rails and posts or just posts, or whatever details the lighting provided.

Typically, my view finder is useless for this...I don't know what the pictures will show...so I don't know what exposure or zoom, etc, I should be at to be representative.

I don't have the patience to shoot the same light shot a dozen ways to bracket the aperature and shutter speed and iso settings, etc...I pick one, and do them all that way.

Unfortunately, when I zoom in, the pics are darker, as zoomed, it changes the aperture (Might climb from f 1.8 wide open to f 5.9 zoomed, etc...)

So, when I load the pics to the 'puter...I adjust what's on the screen to show what my notes remind me I actually SAW that night....then load them to Flickr and then CPF, etc.

I then look at them on the CFP post as a back-up and see if they STILL match the notes.

Sometimes, the low resolution limits of the CPF site make a small patch of light actually disappear...so it looks black let alone too dark, and I have to go back and re-adjust, re-upload and re-post, rinse/repeat, until what the posted pic shows looks like what my eyes saw.

Its a laborious process, but, it does make me feel like the pics are at least representative of what the light looked like to me when I was looking at the lit scene. It may not be perfect...but, at least its as representative as I can make it.


----------



## jorn

Went out and took some photos today. Had the fandyfire with me, but dident really take any real beamshots. Got some artistic looking pics of the fandy.


----------



## ZRXBILL

Beautiful shots there jorn.:thumbsup:


----------



## jorn

Thanks. The modded fandy is so powerful that it will set off a aurora when all the charged photons is hitting the atmosphere:devil: And, batman comes running the first 3-4 times you point it to the sky.
25 sek exposure, but the fandy was only on for 3-4 sek so it wouldent wash out anything else on the pics.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Hi guys,

U can check for newest deerelight flashlights:

XSearcher XM-L U2(cool white), T6(neutral white), T3(warm white) version

Dimensions: 176mm(Length)x 70mm(Head)x 27mm(tail)






and

Night Master V2 XRE EZ900

Dimensions: 160mm(Length)x 53mm(Head)x 27mm(housing)






I will order them today...


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Love it. The 70mm xsearcher can take the ez900 pill. What sort of lux do we reckon then eh?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

I still don't know that... Alan did not send me this data...


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Looking forward to your report


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Well it need over month to reach my country so probably someone else from CPF will order this and test before me


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Dereelight no longer ship to UK! I wonder how long before a UK store has some in stock.


----------



## Luminater

*TG2 and TRE aspherics >>> XP-G2 120,000 lux and XR-E 155,000 lux *

*Here*


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Awesome work.


----------



## Tatjanamagic

I got feedback from Alan and he says [FONT=&quot] that night master v2 is easy to focus now, light weight, more reliable, throw go back to 90K with EZ900 Q5(he has lower readings like I as we use same light meters, for example I have 75kcd for crelant aspheric while some of you guys has 115), the XSeacher throw will be very near the V2 with wide beam, the head is interchangeable.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

EZ900 should go around 150kcd in xsearcher but he did not test that...


----------



## luceat lux vestra

jorn said:


> Went out and took some photos today. Had the fandyfire with me, but dident really take any real beamshots. Got some artistic looking pics of the fandy.


Those pics are awesome, living in the CONUS I have only seen the norther light a few times in my life. And how good can it get a very cool beam shot and the northern light decided to play along! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## jmpaul320

Tatjanamagic said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> U can check for newest deerelight flashlights:
> 
> XSearcher XM-L U2(cool white), T6(neutral white), T3(warm white) version
> 
> Dimensions: 176mm(Length)x 70mm(Head)x 27mm(tail)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> Night Master V2 XRE EZ900
> 
> Dimensions: 160mm(Length)x 53mm(Head)x 27mm(housing)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will order them today...



interesting... it looks like the current and emitter is the same in the nightmaster v2 as v1 though? i guess well have to wait for a hands on review to see if it throws further?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Well NM V2 will throw same as older versions of flashlight... Xsearcher with U2 should throw same or little less than them with bigger hotspot... Only thing that could throw is EZ900 in Xsearcher that should go around 150 mph 

They did newest V2 series for hunters, as this flashlight is very popular among UK hunters now... With new series we will get better design, better recoil proof, better switch, better lenses and focusing system... But same throw... So owners of old ones still got same thing in a different package...

BTW Did someone try to de dome XRE in DBS or nightmaster? I tried but I will never do that again because I broke emitter and now I will have to put EZ1000 on it...

Edit:
I have received them ultra fast so I am bringing my observations here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...er-V2-My-observations-)&p=4051091#post4051091

Edit:
*Adding new data and measurements:*

Especially for people buying Xsearcher... Buy XML U3 emitter because it throws further than U2 version...

Here are measurements with TES 1332A digital multimeter taken by Alan from deerelight factory. Distance 6,4 meters converted...

*XSearcher-XM-L U3 *-->102.4Klux/m
*XSearcher XR-E EZ900 Q5 *-->164.6Klux/m
*NM V2-S *-->90Klux/m

So finnaly XML throws further than XRE ez900 in aspheric flashlight 

It is very possible that all of U guys will get higher readings than this because TES 1332A takes lower readings than other meters!


----------



## luminositykilledthecat...

Thankyou for the update Tatjanamagic :thumbsup:


----------



## Blitzwing

Any thoughts or feedback on the new Wolf Eyes Seal?

Big head, big aspheric and a claimed 1070L. The larger of the two heads is 83mm wide and 83mm deep! :huh: 

http://wolfeyes.com.au/wolf-eyes-seal-p-223.html


----------



## Tatjanamagic

Blitzwing said:


> Any thoughts or feedback on the new Wolf Eyes Seal?
> 
> Big head, big aspheric and a claimed 1070L. The larger of the two heads is 83mm wide and 83mm deep! :huh:
> 
> http://wolfeyes.com.au/wolf-eyes-seal-p-223.html




Wolf eyes flashlight are build like tank... I had night hunters... But throw is average... This Seal could throw...


----------



## cccpull

Would the Xsearcher xml out throw the TN31?


----------



## Tatjanamagic

TN31 73400 Lux (Spot), 362 Lux (Spill) Some guys have 90klux/m readings for TN31... So U really can not know who U gonna thrust...



So yes it would out throw stock version of TN31 for 20000 lux with XML and more than 80 000(probably 100 000 lux) with XRE...

*I will tell you and I stand by my statement that Xsearcer can throw over 1000 meters with simple stock 1,5 amp Q5 EZ 900 pill!!! And up to 700 meters with XML!*

I never had and saw LED flashlight that can throw that far...
And be sure I am not lying about that...

But I still prefer nightmaster V2 over it... I will leave X for playing and fun... 

So with tuned (2+ amp ez 900 pills) ez900 this X thing could go over 200kcd without any problem...

+ note that tes1332A measure less than other meters...

I would really like to give my meter on calibration and I want certificate about that and only then I would be 100% sure that I am taking true measurements... 
So far I got much less measurements than other people on CPF especially one that gives very best reviews on CPF( U all know who that guys are) so when they measure 100kcd for certain flashlight I measure 75-80kcd... 

And I still thrust my eyes more than i I thrust light meters


----------



## langham

Do any of you guys know if de-doming an emitter helps with lux in an aspherical application? I tried it with some reflector based lights and it almost doubled the output, but now I wonder if it helps with zoom to throw lights. Could someone redirect me to a thread that deals with modification of lights for extra candle power? I have read a lot of Saabluster stuff and have taken some from there, but we don't have any common ground in flashlights. Thanks for all of the help.


----------



## langham

Tatjanamagic said:


> AAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I hate de-doming...
> 
> I will never and ever de-dome again... I screwed up deerelight R2 emitter with scalpel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> It does not work any more...
> 
> Don't laugh at me it is not funny...


Sorry to hear that you messed up your light, I haven't ever tried an R2, but they look more difficult.





I recently started de-doming and this is my fandyfire v6 style light, but it has a unique reflector (see how it comes all the way up to the emitter instead of surrounding the chip), and I am wondering if there are any advantages or disadvantages to this style of reflector. I de-domed 3 XML-T6 emitters and I messed up one by taking some of the top layer off of the led surface with the dome, I think this is due to the emitter being overheated at some point prior to the process. I like the new color temperature better than the stock color, and the one that I messed up has a unique bluish tint to it. Throw is greatly improved in all cases and the lower lumen output is only noticeable when directly compared to one with a dome. It did add a couple of rings to the pattern that were previously not there, but I think this is due to the design of the reflector.


----------



## HaileStorm

Just received my predator and it throws really well. It's my third dedicated thrower and trumps my xml thrower.


----------



## hivoltage

TN31 vs RRT-3. I have the Jetbeam, is the TN31 that much better?


----------



## langham

I do not have adequate information to tell you if it is better, but after comparing everything I could find on the 2 lights I would say that the modified TN31 is substantially better in several areas. One of those areas not being total light output, but it is a lot more efficient. There aren't any numbers that I could find on approximate lux of the RRT-3 but I would say that the stock TN31 should out throw it by a good bit, and the modified one would do a lot more than that. This being said I have a Fandyfire-V6 that will get out to around 1200ft and that is enough throw for me. You probably paid a lot of money for the RRT-3 so my suggestion is to just avoid the OSTS TN31 at all cost because it will blow yours away. You can check it out on the OSTS website or on the Modified TN31 thread. Saabluster will put the Modified TN31 at 240kcd on average so it is an extreme thrower.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

langham said:


> I do not have adequate information to tell you if it is better, but after comparing everything I could find on the 2 lights I would say that the modified TN31 is substantially better in several areas. One of those areas not being total light output, but it is a lot more efficient. There aren't any numbers that I could find on approximate lux of the RRT-3 but I would say that the stock TN31 should out throw it by a good bit, and the modified one would do a lot more than that. This being said I have a Fandyfire-V6 that will get out to around 1200ft and that is enough throw for me. You probably paid a lot of money for the RRT-3 so my suggestion is to just avoid the OSTS TN31 at all cost because it will blow yours away. You can check it out on the OSTS website or on the Modified TN31 thread. Saabluster will put the Modified TN31 at 240kcd on average so it is an extreme thrower.




I have both the Saab modded TN31 and Fandyfire lights from OSTS.

The Fandyfire is really terrific with a good Neutral tint without looking too yellow like some do and the throw is better than most of my smaller tactical type LED flashlights like my Olight M3X etc.

The Saab modded Fandyfire throws nearly as good as a stock TN31 and I own a stock TN31 as well to compare these against each other.

I highly recommend the Saab modded Fandyfire in every way except I wish the Strobe was hidden from normal access on both modes that it works in by twisting the head.

It is great value for a light that throws at around 117Kcd but it does not come with any spare o-rings, lanyard or holster, just bare bones in my shipment anyway.

I am going to send him an email about the o-rings especially as they can become a problem after a while.

The modded TN31 is just the best compact and versatile thrower I have ever seen yet, but it is a bit pricey if you need it shipped from the USA to another Country like here in Australia.

*Check out the Goingprepared website on Youtube and hit the link to the Comparison Tests.*

The link is below.


http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5DCCDFBD44A19BCB&feature=plpp


After you click on any of the tests or the Intro you will have the other video tests in a narrow long area scrolling below at the bottom of the page for you to click on and view. 

*ENJOY, and hopefully you will like the way he does the tests and he regularly updates these videos when new lights come onto the market.*

I am sure you or any flashaholic would be very interested in his comparison tests.

It probably will answer a lot of what you are looking for and you may discover something that takes your fancy while you are watching these videos.

He has many LED lights that are all tested mostly under the same conditions and exposures in a few different updates to the series.

It has three targets in the bush at 100, 200, 300 yards plus the bush behind at around 400 yards and he shows you the spill as well.

The list of lights he has tested is up to or over 120 last time I checked it out.

I rely on his comparison tests just as I do Selfbuilt's Light Reviews.

*Saab's modded TN31 really ROCKS!*


*

Cheers*


----------



## hivoltage

Whats the best bang for the buck for $200? I already have the RRT-3 so looking to outdo that!


----------



## BLUE LED

HaileStorm said:


> Just received my predator and it throws really well. It's my third dedicated thrower and trumps my xml thrower.



I really like my Armytek Predator XP-G2. It throws really well for the size and easily.beats my Xeno G42 XM-L U2. Perhaps you would be interested in a 2 x 18650 thrower.


----------



## BLUE LED

hivoltage said:


> Whats the best bang for the buck for $200? I already have the RRT-3 so looking to outdo that!



TN31 will do the job or you could go for the Supbeam K40 which is cheaper.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

BLUE LED said:


> TN31 will do the job or you could go for the Supbeam K40 which is cheaper.



You could also go to the Thrunite Store and buy the "Hot Deal" combo of a TN31 complete with all bits and case plus an added bonus of a Thrunite T10 flashlight and all delivered for free.

My order was delivered with complete tracking info by DHL to Australia in just three days.

I don't know how long that offer will last for but I jumped in to get my combo for $139!



*Cheers*


----------



## HaileStorm

BLUE LED said:


> I really like my Armytek Predator XP-G2. It throws really well for the size and easily.beats my Xeno G42 XM-L U2. Perhaps you would be interested in a 2 x 18650 thrower.



I like to stick to single cell lights since they are still pocketable. Although I'd like to check out 2x 18650 lights, I'm afraid it might not see any use. 

I'm loving the predator at the moment. The xp-g2 tint is blindingly white, no hints of blue  Really happy with it. It's my first programmable light, too


----------



## Oztorchfreak

busycokos said:


> Here is a review of this flashlight: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...on-K40-Thrower-(1-x-XM-L-U2-3-x-18650)-Review




Thanks for putting up the L3 K40 Review, I forgot about the turboBB one.

The L3 K40 is really what could be called the little brother of the TN31 in that is slightly smaller in size and lesser throw with physical diffrences as well as a lesser throw that set it apart from the TN31.

It is not a copy of the TN31 as there are quite a few differences especially the physical ones in the L3 K40.

It is strange though that there are so many similarities like the magnetically ring controlled brightness levels that are exactly the same.

It is probably made by Supbeam or another Company that has produced all of the similar versions of the TN31 as said before on this subject in the forum threads.




*Cheers*


----------



## BLUE LED

HaileStorm said:


> I like to stick to single cell lights since they are still pocketable. Although I'd like to check out 2x 18650 lights, I'm afraid it might not see any use.
> 
> I'm loving the predator at the moment. The xp-g2 tint is blindingly white, no hints of blue  Really happy with it. It's my first programmable light, too



I really like how the XP-G2 is perfectly centered in the smooth reflector. The beam profile is amazing. It manages to achieve a very defined hotspot and an out corona which lights up everything. It is a little different than my XP-G2 throwers as they exhibit a cell defined hotspot, but no bright corona for a more useful beam profile.

The tint on my is slightly warm and I do that I use single cell throwers more. I find the size and weight acceptable for EDC.


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## HaileStorm

BLUE LED said:


> I really like how the XP-G2 is perfectly centered in the smooth reflector. The beam profile is amazing. It manages to achieve a very defined hotspot and an out corona which lights up everything. It is a little different than my XP-G2 throwers as they exhibit a cell defined hotspot, but no bright corona for a more useful beam profile.
> 
> The tint on my is slightly warm and I do that I use single cell throwers more. I find the size and weight acceptable for EDC.



Totally agree with the beam profile, the spill is still very usable.


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