# Stanley HID 3000 pot mod 17-83W



## 2filthy3 (Sep 29, 2011)

I finally got myself a Stanley hid spotlight a few days ago, I have always been curious about the startup/boost circuit, this is what I found.

The rear tail stand cover contains a PCB, this controls charging and luckily also the power output from the ballast unit.

The picture below shows the internals of the spotlight, I have placed a red/blue dot on the PCB connector, this is the control signal to the ballast that regulates output power, in normal operation with the standard battery it ranges from .75 to 2 volts, though its own upper limit is 2.7v, and the lower practical limit is whatever voltage corresponds to the ballast operating at 20W, below 20w it will cut out.







All the power reading are taken from the ballast supply lines, I assume the bulb Watts would be close to 85% of the given figures.

Upon startup the Ballast operates at 77 Watts, drifting down to 40 Watts continuous.

Once the bulb is hot, the ballast operates in a constant power mode, in standard form the ballast runs rock solid at 40 Watts input, from 9.6 volts to 15 volts, unfortunately my usual power supply was broken and I could not find the high voltage cut out.

As the supply voltage increases the control voltage decreases to keep the output power constant, you can see this by following the 40 Watts line in the below spreadsheet, from 1.01V to 0.64V.

The rest of the spreadsheet shows the control voltage needed to achieve a power level at a given input voltage.

The ballast operated at as much as 125W on a hot bulb for 5-10 seconds, however at each supply voltage level there was a maximum Wattage that the ballast would settle to, the higher the supply voltage the higher this wattage was, the graph below shows this curve at points from 10 to 15 volts.






The standard SLA battery in my case is only good for 2Ah, it has a 60mOhm IR and on a fresh charge sags to 12.4v under load, when I switch my pot mod on it sags to 12.1v therefore giving around 67 Watts, falling to 50 Watts at 10 Volts.

Due to this I have simply set my pot mod to deliver 1.5 volts to the control circuit when activated, setting the ballast to maximum output with no constant power regulation.

The device I made is as follows, it contains only a few cheap components.

1x, 10K Ohm trim pot.
1x, 600 Ohm resistor.
1x, switch.
4x, Diodes.


----------



## BVH (Sep 29, 2011)

Finally! Someone has dissected the Stanley ballast control circuit! Thank you!

Would you be interested in making and selling two units for me?


----------



## Colonel Sanders (Sep 29, 2011)

I would be interested in one myself.


----------



## 2filthy3 (Sep 29, 2011)

This Stanley was a single mode only light, I could not guarantee that the older dual mode would behave the same, it probably would though.

I could make more if needed, and ship them, however it truly is a simple circuit that anyone can make, what I could do is take a picture of the device before I have applied any heat shrink to it, it would be very easy to copy from that.


----------



## Colonel Sanders (Sep 29, 2011)

Yes, more pics please! (Mine is a very recent single mode light.)


----------



## FRITZHID (Sep 29, 2011)

i agree! more pix! and TYTYTY!lovecpf:thumbsup:

i am also curious about the long term side effects of this operation on the stock ballast, please keep us updated as far as run tests go. i'd hate to tear apart & mod mine again w/this mod just to find out that within 20mins of operation the ballast smokes. i can't really afford to replace it @ this point in time. but again, TY for probing this out for us!


----------



## BVH (Sep 30, 2011)

pics and a component part number list plus where you got the parts?


----------



## FRITZHID (Nov 16, 2011)

so, has anyone time tested this mod yet?? i'd Love to know if the ballast can handle the prolonged high power!


----------



## Greenbean (Feb 6, 2012)

*
I'm very interested in one also, either for purchase or build myself.*


----------



## hahoo (Feb 13, 2012)

Greenbean said:


> *
> I'm very interested in one also, either for purchase or build myself.*




guess this project went up in smoke


----------



## 2filthy3 (Mar 16, 2012)

Ok, I should be home in a few weeks, and I can make a few of these mod's if anyone want's to try one.

Though I must say that at this point that I have not done any stress testing at prolonged higher power running.

If anyone is interested, will you want the option of adjusting the maximum power yourself, or just a device to wire in and have the lamp run at maximum power, the line shown on my graph above, which is at the bulb approximately 57 Watts on a full charge down to 40 watts at the low battery cut off.


----------



## TEEJ (Mar 16, 2012)

I'd be cool with a simple pedal to the metal version.


----------



## BVH (Mar 16, 2012)

2filthy3 said:


> Ok, I should be home in a few weeks, and I can make a few of these mod's if anyone want's to try one.
> 
> Though I must say that at this point that I have not done any stress testing at prolonged higher power running.
> 
> If anyone is interested, will you want the option of adjusting the maximum power yourself, or just a device to wire in and have the lamp run at maximum power, the line shown on my graph above, which is at the bulb approximately 57 Watts on a full charge down to 40 watts at the low battery cut off.



Definitely would like one! Adjustable is first choice but fixed is still great! I have two lights and would enjoy building one. By having one that you made, would I be able to ID the parts and buy them from Digikey, Mouser, etc?

On second thought, full throttle is great, don't need it adjustable. But maybe a little instruction on what to buy and where to install the adjustable POT(?) so I can do it on the one I'd like to build.


----------



## FRITZHID (Mar 16, 2012)

after the known consequences of over-driving, i'd love a "plug/solder & play" version as long as it doesn't fry the only stanley i own


----------



## 2filthy3 (Mar 17, 2012)

The power adjustment feature on this mod is not very good, all it can do is raise or lower the line of power input shown on my graph, it cannot just dial in 50W at all times, so it's really not that useful, though instruction on how to use one and install it would no problem, or any part of the mod for that matter.

When I have a chance I will do a full discharge test at full mod power, it should be fine.

The main concern would be if this mod as used while the torch was plugged into the car charger, as the maximum of 13.8-14.4 volts that could be seen would have the ballast operate at 68 to 77 output Watts, this could be a problem if used for extended times, though I have run my ballast at 85 output watts for 1 minute with no problem.


----------



## Benson (Apr 29, 2012)

Too bad about your power supply -- I'd like to see some testing beyond 15V. I may have to dig mine out and try this.

Looking at your numbers, it seems just doubling the stock voltage would give a consistent 70-80W, or more generally, a fixed multiplier gives a fixed power -- I'd use an op-amp to make a non-inverting amplifier, and use a pot to adjust from 1x to maybe 3x, at least for testing.


I'm thinking, if nothing blows up with a couple more volts, you can retrofit it with a 4-cell Li-ion polymer battery -- could probably fit 4Ah or so (instead of stock 3Ah), _and_ allow high power throughout the operating range from 12V-16.8V. Of course, a fixed 1.5V probably won't work (too much power at 16.8V), but with an appropriate control circuit (or judicious pot adjustment), you could get near-constant 75W or so. 

Wonder how long a bulb holds up at 75W... only one way to find out, right? :naughty:


----------



## FRITZHID (Apr 29, 2012)

i'm still waiting to hear if anyone has run this mod at full power for a while (2-3 batt cycles) to test the durability of the ballast under these conditions... bulbs can be replaced fairly easily, ballasts on the other hand, not so much.
i'm waiting on these results before i mod mine..... unless i can find a 75w short arc ballast, then i'll be modding it to a MB bulb that BVH was kind enough to send me, and swapping out the reflector.... a short arc stanley!:devil:
it may not have the Lm's a stock stanley has, but it will be a throw beast that fits in hand very nicely!


----------



## 2filthy3 (May 14, 2012)

Sorry guy's been busy and waiting for some parts, I will make these up in the next few days.

Who want's one? should be <$15 dollars including postage, if I send it as a letter.




Benson said:


> Looking at your numbers, it seems just doubling the stock voltage would give a consistent 70-80W, or more generally, a fixed multiplier gives a fixed power -- I'd use an op-amp to make a non-inverting amplifier, and use a pot to adjust from 1x to maybe 3x, at least for testing.



I had also looked at the numbers and found a fixed multiplier on the control circuit would give a fixed output, within the bounds of the above graph anyway, I just could not be bothered setting up an op amp do it, and as you say a multiplier mod would be a lot more useful if combined with a battery upgrade, or the 12V boost board http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-DC-10..._Equipment&hash=item1c23cbc2c8#ht_3974wt_1396 though I guess if the boost board has a constant output the original mod would be good enough. 

Though with the stock battery full power all the time is good enough for me.


----------



## FRITZHID (May 14, 2012)

total cost to Wausau, WI, USA 54403?


----------



## BVH (May 14, 2012)

I'd like two!


----------



## larryk (May 14, 2012)

I would like 1 maybe 2.


----------



## 2filthy3 (May 15, 2012)

I just ran the torch with the mod on continuously, the battery lasted for 16 minutes, the ballast was fairly warm to the touch, but no signs of trouble.

$12 USD shipped worldwide, $17 USD for two.

I Hope to make them in the next few day's.


----------



## BVH (May 15, 2012)

deleted


----------



## Lips (May 15, 2012)

2filty3

What would be the effect running the light with mod from a 4s 14.8v nominal (16.8v topped off) Lipo pack. Too much power or ok? I run my light now occasionally by plugging the cig plug into my Lipo battery setup and it works fine...


----------



## bshanahan14rulz (May 15, 2012)

Why hasn't someone just transplanted one of those adjustable ballast or a common 50W ballast?

Also, be careful about overdriving pressurized glass chambers. You might consider getting some DL-50s or the fatboy versions of those if you can find 'em, but you'll have to construct a spacer or adapter, they are p32/d.


----------



## FRITZHID (May 15, 2012)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> Why hasn't someone just transplanted one of those adjustable ballast or a common 50W ballast?
> 
> Also, be careful about overdriving pressurized glass chambers. You might consider getting some DL-50s or the fatboy versions of those if you can find 'em, but you'll have to construct a spacer or adapter, they are p32/d.



have you opened a stanley? if so, then you'd know why, lol.... theres not alot of breathing space in that casing, and along with the ignitor, would be a tight fit, not to mention theres NO ventilation at all. i'm not say'n it can't be done, but would be a tight and risky mod. if i were to do it, i'd make sure to keep as much of the original hardware intact as i could so i could always return it to stock when the new ballast goes
and at 30 mins runtime on the stock 35w system, i can't see getting more than 15mins outa the SLA, so..... upgrade there as well


----------



## 2filthy3 (May 15, 2012)

***Just about to put some of these together, realized I can very easily incorporate a 30W LOW mode, any interest in this?

Though it will only work with standard internal SLA battery.




Lips said:


> 2filty3
> 
> What would be the effect running the light with mod from a 4s 14.8v nominal (16.8v topped off) Lipo pack. Too much power or ok? I run my light now occasionally by plugging the cig plug into my Lipo battery setup and it works fine...



I could not recommend this, at 16.8 volts I would predict around 118W into the ballast, I have not tested this output for extended periods and could not say what the ballast life would be.

The above mentioned mod from Benson would be needed in this case, with it your output would follow my above graph, and then at a point of your choosing, say 75W it would go flat for constant power regulation, note that I am not doing this mod atm.


----------



## Lips (May 15, 2012)

My opinion a 30 w low would be great because the run-time on these lights is so low, especially at even higher outputs. I have 4 or 5 of these laying around and the batteries are all dead. 


Mine all have the Hi-Low switch. Can't remember, this mod work on these or only single mod version.

How is this mod effected (if any) when you plug the cigarette plug in.

thanks!


----------



## FRITZHID (May 16, 2012)

Lips said:


> My opinion a 30 w low would be great because the run-time on these lights is so low, especially at even higher outputs. I have 4 or 5 of these laying around and the batteries are all dead.
> 
> 
> Mine all have the Hi-Low switch. Can't remember, this mod work on these or only single mod version.
> ...



i may be interested in acquiring most if not all of those! 
i have a FIST FULL of good SLA's in the 3ah to the 9ah range. and (with your sales) a fist full of lipos as well!  (theres a big demand for hand held HIDs here in the "north woods". alot of people admire my stanley yet NONE are available at any store.


----------



## 2filthy3 (May 16, 2012)

Lips said:


> My opinion a 30 w low would be great because the run-time on these lights is so low, especially at even higher outputs. I have 4 or 5 of these laying around and the batteries are all dead.
> 
> 
> Mine all have the Hi-Low switch. Can't remember, this mod work on these or only single mod version.
> ...



When plugged into a car I would expect to see a maximum of 14.4V (minus the protection diode), or around 90W at the ballast, this will not cause immediate failure but it is pushing it fairly hard, The low mode will most likely not work in this case either.


----------



## 2filthy3 (May 17, 2012)

I have decided to use a different switch, due to the low mode. It will probably be around a two week wait for the switches to turn up.

To recap.

I don not know if this mod will work on the HID0109, I would guess the high would, not sure about the low.

The low mode I have added run's VERY close to the ballast cut out when the battery is hot of the charger, that is for me 23 watts into the ballast, on a fresh charge I get within 1W of this, if anyone was to have a problem with the low mode (when the battery is fully charged) I would expect that a few minutes running normally would fix it. My battery gave 45 minutes of run time using the low mode. 
When the torch cuts on low voltage power consumption it around 28W.

The high mode will give you 65W at the ballast (up from 40) for at least 4 minutes, my sad battery gave 5 minutes at 65W, to 60 watts took 8 minutes, then a dive to 50W in 3 minutes and cut out, in total my battery gave 16 minutes of continuous high operation.

The high mode will work when using the 12v car input, though with up to 90W consumed by the ballast I could not recommend continuous operation in High, low will most likely not work.


----------



## BVH (Jul 16, 2012)

Waiting anxiously!


----------



## BVH (Feb 24, 2013)

I guess this has died out.


----------



## SAVAGE420 (Feb 5, 2014)

Im digging up an oldie...Any word on this, or is it dead as said?


----------



## BVH (Feb 5, 2014)

More than a year and a half back to his last post so pretty sure it's dead.


----------



## 2filthy3 (May 15, 2014)

Hello, Sorry, I failed to deliver on this one, life gets in the way of life as it does.

I saw the new stanley battery thread a few days ago, and finally made some of these devices, I only made 4, I am unsure if there is still much interest.

Output power is 17-20W low. 28-29W normal, 50W on a fully charged off the charger stock sla battery, quickly falling to 45/40W, high mode is hard on the battery.


Bad news, I killed my stanley/ballast, good news I had been taking measurements for around and hour, including continuous running at 60 Watts, AT THE BULB, moderate running at 70 Watts, intermittant running at 80 Watts and peaking to 90 Watts, all at the bulb. 

90W output from the ballast required 145W input power, a terrible 62% efficiency, and a silly thing to do. ballast temps of 95C/203F were recorded from the ballast case, and not necessarily from the hottest spot, 70-72% was more common at lower power levels.

~

Anyway I took some more power measurements of the spot light, though this time I was able to measure the power being consumed by the bulb, which is not as straightforward as it seems. 

As this ballast outputs an AC waveform any inductance in the system. Which is where the changing AC voltage causes magnetic fields to be created/collapse, which then attempts to induce a voltage within the same wires/cable/components that created them, this self induced voltage will try to oppose to the original, thus resisting a change in current flow.

This is not a problem for the operation of the light, the problem is in taking power measurements, as the funny thing with inductors is that the voltage and current waveforms flowing through them are not in phase with each other. i.e. the moments of peak amplitude and zero/crossover are different. The problem with this is that means that the simple sum for power of 'Watts = current X voltage' is not correct, so you cannot use a current meter and volt meter to measure the power in an AC circuit, because you are measuring things that are happing at different times.

Research "power factor" to learn more about this phenomenon. Or read this http://media.wix.com/ugd/c017e0_553f5260d6001d8e1290c808f4d4c46f.pdf


Luckily I have a power/clamp meter that can calculate the phase angle between the current and voltage, giving a true indication of power.






As pictures are always more fun, here is what I found.

Note that the lower readings are for the ballast output, and the upper ballast input.
The voltage displayed on the upper watt meter gives an indication of full ballast power for the given ballast input voltage.

On the clamp meter (bottom), the upper reading W-rms is the actual watts being output from the ballast, The lower reading VA, Volt*Amps is the apparent power, or what you would get by simply measuring the voltage and current and multiplying them, like you would do in a DC circuit.








17 Watts, the low mode for my switch.








28W, normal regulated output.
Note VA is 35 watts, which is watt the volts times amps would equal, but it is only the apparent power, not real.








60W, what I might try to achieve full time with a lipo battery pack.








70W, this was causing funny behaviour from my cheap 4300K bulb, moving artifacts, appearing to spin within the bulb.








80W, ran this for around 30 seconds, funny behavior from bulb, was projecting a rotating artefact onto the wall.









90W, unsure of run time, 10 seconds maybe.







Running alligator clips to another bulb increased inductance, causing a bigger gap between the real power (Watts) and apparent (VA) power









After experimenting for an hour, really should have stopped, 94.4 deg C.






The power switch.



If anyone from the start of the thread is interested let me know.


----------



## FRITZHID (May 15, 2014)

Have you experimented with a variable version yet? I was thinking of a 17 to 75 watt pot version.


----------



## 2filthy3 (May 18, 2014)

A variable ouput version is not worthwhile with the standard vrla battery, a variable reg would give a range of 20-50 watts, this gives roughly 20-28-45/50w, if running on a lipo pack or continous supply it would be a good idea.

Forgot to mention that the max output battery figure I have is from a smaller 2ah battery so, so might not line up exactly with the standard unit.


----------



## G6wings (Oct 2, 2014)

*Re: Stanley HID HID0109 pot mod 17-83W.... other options for this Handheld?*

Hi - First time post - HID0109 mod.... I'm actually wanting to get more RUN TIME out of my Light - and I am more than willing to give up output as this light is seriously too bright for anything close up - like tracking downed game (deer, bear, elk) - is it possible!? A lot of you guys seem to have way more knowledge about Lighting/Power/circuitry than I do - sooo... is it possible - or is the HID bulb the restricting factor and has to be run this bright to work properly? Is another option to change the bulb to something like a high output (5W !?!) LED? or is that way to small to get say 50% output of the current/factory configuration?

Again - the standard HID0109 is WAY to bright fro my application - and subsequently has way too short of run time - what is a happy-medium for GOOD brightness with BETTER run time!? 

I figure because this handheld is fairly heavy - it must have a GOOD battery... maybe the HID part of the design is the problem - is there a good way to streamline all the board/wiring to fire a high-output LED that will be GOOD bright (not BLINDING)... but have really good run-time!?!

I will continue to poke around to see if I cant find an articles that might give me this info - but Please advise - and Thank you for your time and effort!!

Eric B / G6wings 







FRITZHID said:


> have you opened a stanley? if so, then you'd know why, lol.... theres not alot of breathing space in that casing, and along with the ignitor, would be a tight fit, not to mention theres NO ventilation at all. i'm not say'n it can't be done, but would be a tight and risky mod. if i were to do it, i'd make sure to keep as much of the original hardware intact as i could so i could always return it to stock when the new ballast goes
> and at 30 mins runtime on the stock 35w system, i can't see getting more than 15mins outa the SLA, so..... upgrade there as well


----------



## BVH (Oct 2, 2014)

*Re: Stanley HID HID0109 pot mod 17-83W.... other options for this Handheld?*

The ballast determines power output to the lamp so using a smaller wattage "rated" lamp will just over-drive the lamp and shorten its' life. The batteries are just a small, 3AH lead acid type. I had a couple of the HID's when they first fame out. If the HID is too bright, you might want to look at the Stanley Fat Max. It's the same pistol-grip style but much smaller and much lighter and while not as bright as the HID, it is very bright - But....it is two-level so you can dim it down and have a longer run time. You get the best of both worlds. I don't remember exactly but I'd guess the Fat Max will run on High for at least 45 minutes, if not more than an hour and on low (which is still plenty bright), probably 1.5 or more hours. It throws well, too. It's an LED light. Highly recommended.


----------



## FRITZHID (Oct 3, 2014)

I second BVHs post. An LED would be much better for your needs.


----------



## Blueknight (Nov 3, 2014)

I lost the 120v wall wart charger that came with the Stanley hid109,I went to radio shack and bought one that put out 12v--1.5 amps. Pluged it into the light and the charging light is blinking. It's been awhile since I actually charged the light and I can't remember,is the blinking normal? Or do I have a problem? Also is the center pole for charging + or - ?


----------



## FRITZHID (Nov 3, 2014)

Red blinking is normal for charging mode, then slightly orange-ish mid charge, finally steady green when full.
Neg (-) outside, pos (+) center


----------



## Blueknight (Nov 3, 2014)

Thank you.


----------



## FRITZHID (Nov 3, 2014)

No prob


----------

