# Hideaway Knife



## MicroE (Sep 29, 2003)

Has anybody had any experience with the Hideaway knife? 
It looks like an interesting idea? 
Any comments at all would be appreciated.
You can see it here:
http://www.hideawayknife.com/main.php
---Marc


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## ewick (Sep 29, 2003)

No experience here, but Spyderco makes a similar item.

S.P.O.T.


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## [email protected] (Sep 29, 2003)

Hmmm, neat knives... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif





Best thing about the site are the pics from Shelby (AluminumOvercast on CPF /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) though... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Pricing seems a little high, but hey, I'm Dutch, everything is priced high for us... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## was_jlh (Sep 29, 2003)

Look very nice, would like to have one, but too pricey for me.

Joe


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## ewick (Sep 29, 2003)

Yeah, they are great pictures. As always. If you want to look at more great pictures of a similar tool, go to:

http://www.karambit.com

Enjoy.


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## [email protected] (Sep 29, 2003)

Thanks for the link ewick. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I like this one... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif
Unfortunately, they are very likely to be illegal here... Even a slighshot is... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif


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## MicroE (Sep 29, 2003)

Bart---It is a gardening tool so why would it be illegal?
You do have gardens over there, don't you? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The pictures ARE amazing. In college I knew a lot of professional photography majors. Aluminum overcast is better than most of them.
The knife is a bit pricey, but if I sell some stuff that I don't really need.......


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## outlaw918692000 (Sep 29, 2003)

Nice but way to high for a sliver of steel. Buy a cheep knock off you will be just as happy, till you discover you like the better grip of even a small pocket knife, and stop carrying it; then you will be verry happy you didn't spend so much.


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## tsg68 (Sep 29, 2003)

MicroE is right Bart all I see is a high end pruning knife! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The Hideaway seems rather reasonably priced for what it is!

I own one of these (MOD Scorpion) with a neck and belt sheath, very small and low profile but also useful since it has the double edge.







This knife designed by knifemaker, martial artist and former French Commando Fred Perrin called "LaGriffe" and made by Emerson knives is cool too!






This one is a Karambit, similar to the Tarani one above but also by Emerson knives.


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## revolvergeek (Sep 30, 2003)

A friend of mine here bought one of the Hideaway knives and it is a very nice little knife. It is very secure and suprisingly fast to deploy. Unlike the other knifes shown, you basically retain all of the use of your hand with the Hideaway, so you could work or fight or whatever you need to. 

It is expensive, which is why I don't have one yet, but I will probably pick up one of the 'straight' models before the end of the year.


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## yclo (Sep 30, 2003)

IIRC, the Hideaway Knife was developed on the USN forum. Designed by a lady, and aided by many other popular custom knife makers.

I was following it for a while, and it is very interesting to see it grow step by step. Much like when a new mod is made here.

-YC


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## rajanf1 (Sep 30, 2003)

It is a very good concept imho. For a 2 inch knife, I would rank it tops over similarly sized conventional handled self defense knife up to 3 inches. It is very compact, concealable, and very secure in the hand. Try to make a cardboard knockoff as a demo trainer and simulate some sd techniques. I think it is very effective in very close quarters fighting for slashing and, at least for the straight and strider styles, stabbing.

The only thing that is running against it is price.


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## DumboRAT (Sep 30, 2003)

I've been fancying a hideaway blade of the same nature as the various "neck knives" that many have posted above -- been looking at a Simonich Bitterroot, and spotted this carry option:

http://www.bladeart.com/mission-tac/misc_gear/misc_gear.htm

- just go down a little, you'll see the "Bitterroot Sheath Belt" by Snoody. 

To me, it looks like the handle sticks out quite a ways away from the plane of the belt, and would compromise concealed carry by printing or tenting the handle.....any opinions? dare I go so far as to hope that someone here might own this setup and can offer a first-hand tale?

Thanks!

=)

Allen
aka DumboRAT


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## rawhide_clyde (Sep 30, 2003)

I've handled a couple of the Hideaway's and like the designs. I have one on order and it's at Paul Bos shop for heat treating now. As others have pointed out it has alot going for it. The price-point may appear high in comparison to production blades but I consider that the final grinds are done by some mighty skilled makers whose work can and does command a premium. In addition to the blade itself FrontSight has also put much effort into tweaking the various methods of carry. I've crossed trainers and banged around with the guy doing the training DVD and it will be top-notch stuff for sure. Yep, it's been kinda neat watching this project develop along the way.
Stay Safe, 
Clyde


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## FrontSight (Sep 30, 2003)

Wow so cool! My knife in the Candlepower forum! 

OK, here are some photos that I’ve not posted yet anywhere. 

I like taking photos of my knives with my SureFire E1E and E2E because they go so well together and are the same form factor.
















This photo is what S30V stainless steel knives look like when they come back from Heat Treat. All my heat treating is done by Paul Bos in California, because Jerry Hossom says he’s the best at getting the S30V hardness exactly right. I think the heat treat blooms are bad-***. 







RE: the earlier comparison to other knives

When I first started this project, I just wanted to be able to GET (i.e., buy) what I wanted. I didn’t enter it looking to become a knife designer and part-maker. Having a CNC already in my garage made the final design possible, and making some great contacts for the parts that I could not figure out how to do myself (the custom-grinding) made bringing it to market for other people possible.

So I looked hard at these excellent knives and more that a lot of people recommended. They are very popular knives, but unacceptable for what I need, because the form factor is just too big. This would make it spend more time in the drawer than on me. Looking at smaller knives, the retention that I know is necessary was not there, or the edge was really tiny. So I made the design goal to be an edge as big as some much bigger knives, but in a much smaller form factor. 






And this one I’ve posted on my website. With the HideAway you can hold to a light or grab on to something to balance without having to drop the knife. This is with the SureFire Z2. 







How to reduce cost is on my mind a lot. I was on the phone with someone at 2am last night talking about it. 

The custom-sized, custom-ground, S30V stainless prices will not go down (unless S30V stainless becomes cheaper, which doesn’t seem to be happening) . On per-knife costs, I’m averaging $21 / knife profit, but with fixed costs I have not broken even yet. That should happen when the titanium models ship. Am really glad I’m not relying on this project to pay the rent! 

But I’m fine with that because I just don’t want to compromise on *anything* for the custom version. I made the Autocad algorithm to size each one big enough to get on quickly and small enough to be retained if your hand were to drop. (Hey – it’s cheaper than a tailored shirt!) S30V stainless has an awesome reputation for both edge retention amongst the much wiser knifemakers out there, so I went with that. But it costs a lot more to buy and is more costly to work with at every step (wears out grinding belts faster, requires very precise heat-treat, etc.) Maybe this is like only wanting the best and brightest LEDs.


And I’m working with some of the best of the best knifemakers in the world. You can’t find a custom-ground knife by Rob Simonich or Mick Strider for under ?$300. They are more difficult to grind than a larger hunting knife, because there’s nothing to hold on to. The knife grips you, you don’t grip the knife. And they are also difficult to sheath properly, based on the challenges I see the most experienced sheathmakers having. It takes more time to do it really well , and so of course they charge me more. 


*However*, there is definitely enough demand for a lower-cost good steel version. I realize that not everyone can afford it, and I want more people to be able to. (I think the ideal # to have is 7 of them in various places if you want to be really prepared. Ex: On me, on my bicycle, my car, etc.) I was talking on the phone last night at 2am with a buddy about how to reduce cost in the knife, and the only answer would be to go with a different metal, to offer it in a limited # of sizes instead of it being personally-sized, and to have it machine ground. I think most people would be perfectly fine with those parameters. And based on others’ similar projects, if I chose to continue doing the custom model and the production model, the demand for the custom-ground and custom-sized version would not shift much.

Also, I’m very motivated to do this because most of my friends’ custom HideAways are almost done now, and the custom versions just take up a ton of my time at any price. If I could figure out how to do a less expensive one both in terms of time and cost, that’d be a great thing. 

FrontSight


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## K-T (Sep 30, 2003)

You have to remember that every Hideaway is extra made for your finger size, it is far off from being one of these "mass market custom knives". The price is high but lots of effort, time and money went into designing and creating this knive.

The Karambits are also quite attractive knives, I love most of the designs - folding or nonfolding ones!

I do like the design very much - apparently it might not be legal in Germany, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif But a different version might follow. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Bart, is that your Hideaway or only a picture of one you like? 

Edit:

Frontsite, welcome to CPF. I was just going to write you an email asking you to come over and give us some input on your knives. Thanks alot!


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## tsg68 (Sep 30, 2003)

FrontSight,

Welcome to CPF!

Beautiful little knives, dang, the recurve is right up my alley! After paying off the last of the summer utility bills (Crap, airconditioning is expensive!) You'll likely be hearing from me!

TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## was_jlh (Oct 1, 2003)

Nice presentation, FrontSight. As we discussed in the recent Sebenza thread, you can't hide quality. Now I ~really~ want one.

Joe


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2003)

Hi FrontSight,




welcome to CPF! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Great Pics! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

K-T, I wish... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## MicroE (Oct 1, 2003)

Frontsight---Welcome. 
I have already ordered a HAK (and sent an email with a couple of questions). Here's why:

EASE OF CARRY
I started this thread because I have discovered that the primary issue with all knives is EASE OF CARRY. 
Small is beautiful. 
I have several large blades that never get used because they are just too big to carry around. Whenever I need to cut something I end up using the blade that I have on me because it is too much trouble to go fetch a bigger blade. 

DESIGN
The design concept of the HAK is nothing short of brilliant. As a design engineer, I like to reward good product design (by buying it) whenever I can.

COST
I understand that S30V is very expensive and I accept that cost. 
I sharpen my tools when they are dull, but it is not my favorite chore. It's messy and requires time and concentration. 
S30V requires less frequent sharpening than other steels and that makes the cost/sharpening trade-off acceptable to me.

COST REDUCTION
Aluminum will cut flesh. If a person intends to use the HAK only for a low-probability one-time SD encounter then you can sell them a blade that is stamped from 3/16" Aluminum and sharpened in Asia. 
That's fine for some people, but not me. I use my blades to cut cardboard and other stuff every day. I don't believe in cutting corners on tools. 

Buy a quality tool and you cry only once. Buy a cheap tool and you cry over and over again.

I own a lot of knives that cost me lot more than the HAK.

I'm sorry if I ran off at the "mouth" here.
I anxiously await my first HAK.---Marc


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## survival1833 (Oct 2, 2003)

I think this is one of the most innovative knives to come along in a while. I'm proud to be working with Frontsight, and I'm looking forward to more sheath designs as time goes on. I'll be taking this to the Riddle next week to put it through it's paces. I think it's going to be widely praised and accepted. Great job, Frontsight!


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## Xrunner (Oct 2, 2003)

Welcome to CPF! Do any of your knives have a combo edge? Thanks

-Mike


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## Gone Jeepin (Oct 4, 2003)

Welcome to CPF!!! Glad to see you here. I have been following your work from over at USN and really like it. Enjoy your time here on CPF. I think you will like it here.


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## K-T (Oct 4, 2003)

Xrunner, as far as I know there are no Hideaway knives with combo edge. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## DumboRAT (Jan 27, 2004)

Reviving this thread for just a bit as I *_truly_* think that this is a most excellent tool.....

I just got my Titanium Mick Strider Hybrid HideAway a week or so ago, and I've gotta say that this is one awesome little knife.

The wait was about 3 months as my finger size ran a bit larger than usual (follow FrontSight's instructions *exactly*, the sizing program is astoundingly accurate) and as this piece requires the collaboration of Mick (who is extremely busy) and the availability of the knife material, but it was most sincerely worth every angonizing second of the wait.

The knife fits as if though it was surgically grafted on to your knuckles/finger, and it's so amazingly light and small that whether worn on your body or ready-to-serve on your hand, it can honestly just disappear into thin air of fade-out against your clothing.

I'm lovin' mine.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Allen
aka DumboRAT


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## K-T (Jan 27, 2004)

Congratulations, Allen. If you want, I could post some pictures of your Hideaway(->email). If my memory serves me right, there must be one or the other nice Strider in your collection, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## FC. (Jan 27, 2004)

I have been waiting for about 6 months now. Mick Strider <straight> blade.


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## DumboRAT (Jan 27, 2004)

FC -- Dang, you must have HUGE or very small fingers !

K-T -- That's a most kind offer, but I don't want to take up too much of your space/account. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Lemmie see first if I can "re-activate" my old PBase account. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Allen
aka DumboRAT


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## K-T (Jan 28, 2004)

As you wish. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## FC. (Jan 28, 2004)

Key word is STRAIGHT /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## BradN (Jan 29, 2004)

Mine is on order too, for about 3 months so far. Can't wait to see it.


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