# 2012 Battery test/review summary



## HKJ

[SIZE=+3]Battery test/review summary[/SIZE]

The full comparison can be found on my website.







I am working on a large LiIon battery test, this test contains mostly 18650 cells. Each tested battery is posted as a separate review with curves and data for the battery. This article will compare the results of these tests, but I will only include some of the results.

I do not plan to do many updates to the text of this article, but because the charts are fetched from my server they will be updated frequently. All the batteries I have tested will be included, and sometimes also for unpublished test/reviews that might be only partial done, these reviews will be published later when they are finished. This does also explain why a battery can be present in some charts, but not in other.

Because the charts will be updated I will not comment on how different batteries compares to each other in this article, that might not be valid after the next update of the charts. 

Note: The picture above does show a sample of the batteries I am testing. At the time of publishing this article only half of them have been tested, but when I am finished many more than shown will have been tested. 



[SIZE=+2]18650 battery charts[/SIZE]










The first chart is the capacity at different current draw. To measure this capacity I have discharged the batteries down to 2.8 volt at the specified current rates (some batteries cannot handle 5A current draw and will not show a 5A bar).










Some lights cannot drain the battery down to 2.8 volt, but need considerable more voltage, especially to get full brightness. In the above chart I have measured the capacity drained when the battery is down to 3.6 volt, again at different current. Batteries that has a lot of capacity when measured to 2.8 volt does not necessary have that when measured to 3.6 volt, especially at high current drains.



Edit: 
Curves removed, they was getting way to messy, please use the battery comparators (links below).


Instead of showing the capacity of the battery, it is also possible to show how long time the battery will last at the 1A current draw.










The batteries has a specified current, this current is the recommended maximum drain on the cell. If this specification is missing, it can usual be assumed to be 2xC, i.e. a 2400mAh battery will have a specified current of 4800mA or 4.8 Ampere. These assumed values are not shown in the chart. 
Batteries with a PCB protection also has a trip current, this is at a higher value than the specified current. In my opinion 30% up to 50% above the specified current is best.
The "Protection trip" will be missing for unprotected batteries and because my test equipment is configured to starts at 3 ampere batteries with "Protection trip" below 3 ampere will also be missing.










The 18650 specifications means that a cell is about 65 mm long, but protected batteries are longer, because a protection circuit must be added and sometimes there is also added a button top. Not all chargers and lights can take the longest cells.


Links
Index to specific brands: AW, Efest, EnerPower, Keeppower, TrustFire
Index to comparators: 18350/16340/14500/10440/etc., 18700/18650/18500/17650/etc.




[SIZE=+2]Simple battery selection guide[/SIZE]

This is a very simple guide in how to select the best battery for different types of flash lights, using the charts shown above.
Remember always to check if the light supports the length of the battery (See length chart above) and shape of the positive nipple (See test/review of battery).
The current estimate assumes that the leds are driven at full power.


It is strongly recommended to use protected batteries in most light both for safety and for long battery life (Any battery discharged to much take serious damage).



[SIZE=+1]Lights with 2x18650 batteries in series[/SIZE]






These lights will usual use a buck converter to adjust the voltage, this means that a XR-E, XP-E is 0.5A, XP-G is 0.7A, and a XM-L is 1.5A. With two batteries in series the light can use all the capacity in the battery, while staying at full brightness. I.e. the "Discharge, capacity" chart is the one used here.
For 0.5A current, look for the batteries with the longest green bar, they will give most runtime.
For 0.7A current, look for the batteries with the longest green and blue bars, they will give most runtime.
For 1.5A current, look for the batteries with the longest blue and cyan bars, they will give most runtime. 



[SIZE=+1]Lights with 1x18650 batteries or 2xCR123 batteries[/SIZE]






These lights will usual use a buck converter, but typically have trouble maintaining full brightness when the 18650 battery voltage is low. For current XR-E, XP-E is 1A, XP-G is 1.5A, and a XM-L led will need 3A.
To find the battery that maintains the highest brightness for the longest time use the chart "Discharge, capacity down to 3.6 volt" 

For 1A current, look for the batteries with the longest blue bar, they will give most runtime.
For 1.5A current, look for the batteries with the longest blue and cyan bars, they will give most runtime.
For 3A current, look for the batteries with the longest yellow bar, they will give most runtime. 

Note: These lights will sometimes be fairly safe with unprotected batteries, especially with cell that can be discharged down to 2.5 volt.



[SIZE=+1]Lights with 1x18650 batteries and linear driver (7135 chip) [/SIZE]






In this type of light the current in the led is the same as the current drawn from the battery. These light need as much voltage as possible to maintain regulation. For current XR-E, XP-E is 1A, XP-G is 1.3A, and a XM-L led will need 3A. if it is possible to count the number of 7135 chips in the driver, it is very easy to calculate the current. Each chip is 1/3 ampere, i.e. 3 chips is 1 ampere. 
To find the battery thats maintain the highest brightness for the longest time use the chart "Discharge, capacity down to 3.6 volt" 

For 1A current, look for the batteries with the longest blue bar, they will give most runtime.
For 1.3A current, look for the batteries with the longest blue and cyan bars, they will give most runtime.
For 3A current, look for the batteries with the longest yellow bar, they will give most runtime.

Note: These lights will often be fairly safe with unprotected batteries, especially with cell that can be discharged down to 2.5 volt.



[SIZE=+1]Other lights[/SIZE]

For other lights a tailcap current measurement can help with establishing the current draw.
Or use power calculations to estimate current: For each led add the watt together: XR-E and XP-E is 3.5W, XP-G is 5.4 W and XM-L is 10 W, divide sum by number of batteries and by 3.7, the result is the current.
An example for A 3 XM-L light with 4 batteries: 10+10+10->30 watt, 30/4/3.7 -> 2 ampere from each battery (It does not matter if they are series or parallel). 
Use the "Discharge, capacity" for lights with two or more 18650 cells in series or the "Discharge, capacity down to 3.6 volt" for lights that only works on a single 18650 battery or uses a couple of 18650 in parallel. 



[SIZE=+1]When mostly using low modes[/SIZE]

For low modes it is the 0.2A red and 0.5A green bar that is most interesting. To see which one, use a tailcap current measurement. For currents below 0.2A it is fine to use the 0.2A bar, lower current draw will not change the rating of the batteries significantly.


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## AlphaZen

*Re: Battery test/review summary*

Great information! That was extremely helpful to the community - thank you. :thumbsup::thanks:​


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## kosPap

*Re: Battery test/review summary*



> Some lights cannot drain the battery down to 2.8 volt, but need considerable more voltage, especially to get full brightness. In the above chart I have measured the capacity drained when the battery is down to 3.6 volt, again at different current. Batteries that has a lot of capacity when measured to 2.8 volt does not necessary have that when measured to 3.6 volt, especially at high current drains.


hmm.....does that mean that the Spark batts are not cutout for high drains?

And what about the AW, Redilast & Callie's 3100. Since they all have the same batt inside where does the difference in Callie's comes from? The protection circuit?


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## samgab

*Re: Battery test/review summary*

Wow, another excellent and informative thread. The charts are great. Cheers! :thumbsup:


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## HKJ

*Re: Battery test/review summary*



kosPap said:


> hmm.....does that mean that the Spark batts are not cutout for high drains?



The Spark is not really good at 5A if you want the highest possible voltage, but at 1A-2A it is very good.




kosPap said:


> And what about the AW, Redilast & Callie's 3100. Since they all have the same batt inside where does the difference in Callie's comes from? The protection circuit?



Voltage under load can be affected by the protection circuit, but also by the age and manufacturing batch/plant of the cell.
The capacity at low loads is only due to cell variations and has nothing to do with the protection circuit.


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## candle lamp

*Re: Battery test/review summary*

Wow. Excellent review summary. Thanks a lot for your informative test result & effort. :goodjob: :twothumbs


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## HKJ

*Re: Battery test/review summary*

TrustFire 3000mAh had been added to charts.


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## Rokron

*Re: Battery test/review summary*

Real nice work. When I need to know something about 18650 cells, this is where I'll come. Thanks for the dedication.


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## RBWNY

*Re: Battery test/review summary*

Great report!

Is the Intl-Outdoor NCR (3100) cell related to (or the same as) the Panasonic cell I've seen for sale online? These say PROTECTED on them, but the Panasonics I've seen don't appear to indicate if they are.


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## HKJ

*Re: Battery test/review summary*



RBWNY said:


> Great report!
> 
> Is the Intl-Outdoor NCR (3100) cell related to (or the same as) the Panasonic cell I've seen for sale online? These say PROTECTED on them, but the Panasonics I've seen don't appear to indicate if they are.



They are for sale at the intl-outdoor online shop, but not at the current time, because the owner is working on a new batch with higher protection trip current. Like all the other 3100 batteries they are based on the Panasonic NCR18650A cell.


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## mikevelarde

*Re: Battery test/review summary*

STICKY!!!!!!!!:bow:


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## tobrien

*Re: Battery test/review summary*

how'd I miss this thread? Thanks!


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## space-cowboy

*Re: Battery test/review summary*

Best independent battery/charger reviewer period !


Question:

When you will be able to post test results for NCR18650A 3100mAh Panasonic bare cell.
It is important because top performers such as AW use this cell. It would be interesting to see performance results of this Panasonic cell without protection circuit.


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## HB021

My trustfires (2400) can't handle over 2,5A nor can the Ultrafire 3600mAh(2400 real). I have about 40x... Don't know how yours can do 5A? I even removed the protection circuit but still around 2,5A.
I bought some 2600mAh Sanyo and they seem to handle up to 5A though


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## HKJ

Added two LG cells and AW IMR 1600 cell to the charts.
​


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## loquutis79

So looking at the chart for "Discharge Capacity Down To 3.6v", can I assume that while the AW 18650 3100mAh are the first pick for my Fenix TK35 and TK21, the Fenix PD32 I want next would be better served by the Trustfire or Spark brand of comparable specks?


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## HKJ

loquutis79 said:


> So looking at the chart for "Discharge Capacity Down To 3.6v", can I assume that while the AW 18650 3100mAh are the first pick for my Fenix TK35 and TK21, the Fenix PD32 I want next would be better served by the Trustfire or Spark brand of comparable specks?



No. 

The TK35 uses two 18650 and this means the 2.8 volt chart (The chart without volt specification) and there it is the 3100 batteries that are best, AW or other.

TK21 and PD32 uses a single 18650 and that is the 3.6 volt chart. At max. they will probably use around 1.5 ampere, i.e. somewhere between the blue and cyan bar. This means that the Spark 2600 will give longer runtime at max. brightness (TrustFire 3000 will also, but there might be variation between batches).


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## chewy78

them trustfire flame 3000mah look appealing


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## HKJ

Added some (18650/17650) EagleTac batteries to the chart.
I have also tested the smaller EagleTac batteries (16340/14500), they will no be included in this chart, but can be found as stand alone reviews.


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## space-cowboy

HKJ said:


> Added some (18650/17650) EagleTac batteries to the chart.
> I have also tested the smaller EagleTac batteries (16340/14500), they will no be included in this chart, but can be found as stand alone reviews.




Way to go HKJ , 

more reviewed batteries and chargers always better.


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## MurphyCop

I apologise for my newbie question - i've just ordered a klarus xt11 and an eagletac 18650 3100mah rechargeable. 

I'm not sure how to read your charts so which battery would be best for my XT11....also which chargers do you recommend?

Thanks in advance


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## HKJ

MurphyCop said:


> I apologise for my newbie question - i've just ordered a klarus xt11 and an eagletac 18650 3100mah rechargeable.
> 
> I'm not sure how to read your charts so which battery would be best for my XT11....also which chargers do you recommend?
> 
> Thanks in advance



For longest total runtime the 3100 mAh battery will probably be best, the manufacturer does not really matter (for runtime), because they all uses the same cell inside.
If you want longest runtime at full brightness, you need to look at the "Discharge, capacity down to 3.6 volt" and with a 800 lumen light it is somewhere between the cyan and yellow bar (2-3 ampere), again the 3100 mAh batteries does well.


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## MurphyCop

HKJ said:


> For longest total runtime the 3100 mAh battery will probably be best, the manufacturer does not really matter (for runtime), because they all uses the same cell inside.
> If you want longest runtime at full brightness, you need to look at the "Discharge, capacity down to 3.6 volt" and with a 800 lumen light it is somewhere between the cyan and yellow bar (2-3 ampere), again the 3100 mAh batteries does well.



So are you saying that theres not much between it with the 3100 mAh batteries? I've bought an eagletac one already but is it worth spending a bit more money for an AW or redilast as a spare?


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## HKJ

MurphyCop said:


> So are you saying that theres not much between it with the 3100 mAh batteries? I've bought an eagletac one already but is it worth spending a bit more money for an AW or redilast as a spare?



Without a full test of the light, I cannot recommend anything better than a 3100 mAh and even with a full test it would probably be the same.

The difference between the brands is the length of the battery, quality of protection and general build quality. The EagleTac looks good on all counts, how well it stands up to the bumps from the real world we will first know after some time, when a lot of people has used them.


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## dts71

Considering that some batteries like the Spark has higher voltage on their way to empty it would be more interesting to count Wh instead of Ah. 
At least your 1A discharge plot seem to have the data to count the area beneath the curves.
Great review anyhow  and I like the additional info about the lengths - maybe you could add the length of the batteries that has not been tested yet?
I'm curious of the length of other RediLast for example.


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## HKJ

dts71 said:


> Considering that some batteries like the Spark has higher voltage on their way to empty it would be more interesting to count Wh instead of Ah.
> At least your 1A discharge plot seem to have the data to count the area beneath the curves.



If you look at the individual battery reviews, they do have a Wh curve and when my full comparison article is finished, it will also have it.



dts71 said:


> Great review anyhow  and I like the additional info about the lengths - maybe you could add the length of the batteries that has not been tested yet?
> I'm curious of the length of other RediLast for example.



All curves is build from a script and it only include batteries that are tested (or sometimes partially tested). I have some other RediLast in my test queue, but it will probably be some time yet, before they are tested.


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## HKJ

Added intl-outdoor's new 3100 mAh battery, it has a new protection PCB with very low resistance, making it one of the best 3100 batteries at high current.


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## stickx

HKJ said:


> The difference between the brands is the length of the battery, quality of protection and general build quality. The EagleTac looks good on all counts, how well it stands up to the bumps from the real world we will first know after some time, when a lot of people has used them.



Is there a way to identify the "quality of protection" in a battery? As a relative novice, that would be one of my most important criteria for choosing one battery over another assuming both meet my discharge requirements. Quality of build is also important. But it doesn't seem like either of these attributes can be really measured quantitatively.


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## HKJ

stickx said:


> Is there a way to identify the "quality of protection" in a battery? As a relative novice, that would be one of my most important criteria for choosing one battery over another assuming both meet my discharge requirements. Quality of build is also important. But it doesn't seem like either of these attributes can be really measured quantitatively.



What I can see about the protection is the current it trips at and how consistent it is, my log looks something like this:

03/02-2012 04:16:29 Trip test 0 current 5,5A calculated ri 0,331
03/02-2012 04:22:10 Trip test 1 current 5,5A calculated ri 0,312
03/02-2012 04:27:50 Trip test 2 current 5,4A calculated ri 0,288
03/02-2012 04:33:30 Trip test 3 current 5,4A calculated ri 0,284
03/02-2012 04:39:09 Trip test 4 current 5,4A calculated ri 0,287

The trip current drops a bit when the circuit is warmed up, but not very much and the first measurement gives a higher ri than the rest (The last might also be higher, because the battery is discharged).

As long as the both tested batteries trips at about the same current and follows this pattern I will say the protection is good. If there is large variation in the current or Ri jumps up and down, I might say something negative about it.
Sometimes the two batteries tested does not have the same current limit, this shows that there is some tolerance on the components used and if it is large I will complain about it (See http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/EnerPower+ 18650 2900mAh (Blue) UK.html for an example).


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## 127.0.0.1

MurphyCop said:


> I apologise for my newbie question - i've just ordered a klarus xt11 and an eagletac 18650 3100mah rechargeable.
> 
> I'm not sure how to read your charts so which battery would be best for my XT11....also which chargers do you recommend?
> 
> Thanks in advance



I have the same XT11 and Eagletac 3100 I chose after reading several other battery reviews. can't go wrong with them
in a single 18650 / 2xcr123 xm-l light.


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## hjjaleon

That's fantastic work! Thx u mate!!


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## brted

Great job, HKJ. This is great information to have up-to-date. Looking forward to how the XTAR does.


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## Helmut.G

HKJ, thank you very much for this extremely useful comparison!
Very interesting charts!
Very interesting batteries! Thanks for including the 17650 and especially the 16650!

There's only one thing I want to criticise: You don't include enough "classic" old-chemistry cells for my taste.
You have 8 new technology Panasonics, 3 high-current capable cells, 2 smaller diameter and only 2 "2600mAh" ones (not counting trustfires because they are not consistent).
To make the test perfect for me, include the 2200 and 2600 mAh AWs and a bare Sanyo 2600mAh.


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## HKJ

Helmut.G said:


> Very interesting batteries! Thanks for including the 17650 and especially the 16650!
> 
> There's only one thing I want to criticise: You don't include enough "classic" old-chemistry cells for my taste.
> You have 8 new technology Panasonics, 3 high-current capable cells, 2 smaller diameter and only 2 "2600mAh" ones (not counting trustfires because they are not consistent).
> To make the test perfect for me, include the 2200 and 2600 mAh AWs and a bare Sanyo 2600mAh.



I do have a couple of these batteries in queue, but my test have been more successful than expected, i.e. I get a lot of batteries to test and do not have time for my own list of batteries.
I have tested AW 2200 mAh and will publish the result very soon.


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## Helmut.G

HKJ said:


> I do have a couple of these batteries in queue, but my test have been more successful than expected, i.e. I get a lot of batteries to test and do not have time for my own list of batteries.
> I have tested AW 2200 mAh and will publish the result very soon.


Nice! Looking forward to that.


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## tobrien

is it just me or, based on the results and how the batteries look to the eye, are Callie's Kustoms 3100s and Intl-Outdoors 3100s (black) the exact same pcb? I know theyre both based on the same Panasonic cells, right?

would you tend to agree HKJ?


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## HKJ

tobrien said:


> is it just me or, based on the results and how the batteries look to the eye, are Callie's Kustoms 3100s and Intl-Outdoors 3100s (black) the exact same pcb? I know theyre both based on the same Panasonic cells, right?
> 
> would you tend to agree HKJ?



No, the protection works at different values.
Generally it is possible that different sellers uses the same protection pcb on the same cell, these batteries are not manufactured by Callie or intl-outdoor, but by some oem supplied, that makes batteries for multiple sellers.


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## tobrien

HKJ said:


> No, the protection works at different values.
> Generally it is possible that different sellers uses the same protection pcb on the same cell, these batteries are not manufactured by Callie or intl-outdoor, but by some oem supplied, that makes batteries for multiple sellers.


okay, but the Callie's Kustoms page and Intl-Outdoor page both quote 2.5 as the cutoff voltage, though, for example. I know you did test some older revisions by Intl-Outdoors right?


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## HKJ

tobrien said:


> okay, but the Callie's Kustoms page and Intl-Outdoor page both quote 2.5 as the cutoff voltage, though, for example. I know you did test some older revisions by Intl-Outdoors right?



The "Official specifications" are the sellers/manufacturers specifications, they are not always correct.

The protection circuit has 3 key values:
Over charge cutoff voltage (probably around 4.25 volt)
Over discharge cutoff voltage (Somewhere between 2.00 and 3.00 volt)
Over current cutoff current (Somewhere between 3 and 15 ampere).

The only value I test this time around is the "Over current cutoff current" and it was different on callie and intl-outdoor.


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## HKJ

I have added 7 batteries to the summary: AW 2200, 4Greer 3100, EnerPower 2250, EnerPower+ 2200, Xtar 2400, Xtar 2600 and Xtar 3100

It might be necessary to press F5 to get the charts updated.


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## tobrien

HKJ said:


> The "Official specifications" are the sellers/manufacturers specifications, they are not always correct.
> 
> The protection circuit has 3 key values:
> Over charge cutoff voltage (probably around 4.25 volt)
> Over discharge cutoff voltage (Somewhere between 2.00 and 3.00 volt)
> Over current cutoff current (Somewhere between 3 and 15 ampere).
> 
> The only value I test this time around is the "Over current cutoff current" and it was different on callie and intl-outdoor.


got it. i was taking the manufacturer specs verbatim/as gospel


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## HKJ

I have posted the full comparison on my website, it includes more than 100 charts.
There is one set with all batteries, and 3 sets with low, medium and high capacity batteries.
There is also discharge capacity to a couple of other voltages and a few other charts that is missing in this summary.


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## HKJ

A status update on the battery test:

Left pile is "to do", middle is "testing" and right is "test done".






It will be some time, before I am finished with the battery test. And my charts with discharge curves for all batteries will be completely unreadable.


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## Helmut.G

You could make a transparent graph for every tested battery and put a page on your website where the user can select the batteries he wants to see, then overlay the corresponding images.
I'm not sure if that works however, just an idea.


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## HKJ

Helmut.G said:


> You could make a transparent graph for every tested battery and put a page on your website where the user can select the batteries he wants to see, then overlay the corresponding images.
> I'm not sure if that works however, just an idea.



Interesting idea.
I could probably generate transparent background easily enough, but the curve would be the same color on all the charts, i.e. it would not be possible to see what curve is what battery. To avoid using to much space on the server, it would probably be best to use this type chart:




Then I only need one chart for each battery.


There is also some work doing the code, either server or client based.


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## Helmut.G

I hadn't thought about the colors, that could be a problem.

png-graphics require ridiculously little space, you shouldn't have to worry about that.


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## HKJ

Helmut.G said:


> I hadn't thought about the colors, that could be a problem.
> 
> png-graphics require ridiculously little space, you shouldn't have to worry about that.



Space is not a big problem, but there is not reason to waste it.

One way to do it would be to generate two sets of charts one with background and one color scheme and one without background and another color scheme.
This way it would only be possible to compare two batteries at a time, but that is probably enough (I could also generate 3 sets with 3 different color schemes, the 3 batteries could be compared, etc.).


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## U235

Great info, thanks for your hard work HKJ. Btw, do you have a list of what's in the "to be tested pile?"


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## HKJ

U235 said:


> Btw, do you have a list of what's in the "to be tested pile?"



Not a full list, but it includes some AW, RediLast and UltraFire. There is also a "unknown" manufacturer that send many different batteries (Some of them are in the tested pile).


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## ChibiM

Absolutely Amazing... HKJ... thanks for posting this! 
Thats a great amount of work, and very useful for many people who want to compare different cells, in different price segments.. 

We really appreciate all this effort!


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## HKJ

I have worked with the idea above from Helmut and think it has given a good result (Helmut did help a bit with it).
Now it is possible to this kind of comparison:





The full comparator can be found here.


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## HKJ

The UltraFire 4000mAh and all the 18xx0 Keeppower batteries are now included, both in the above bar charts and in the full comparison on my website.
It might be necessary to press F5 to update the charts.


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## dmprok

HKJ said:


> [SIZE=+3]Battery test/review summary[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=+2]18650 battery charts[/SIZE]



Thanks for awesome charts! It would have been real great if you could have sorted all your charts from highest to lowest performing battery, that way I can see immediately which battery is right for me.


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## Changchung

Hi HKJ, what you do with the batteries after test it? Keep it or send it back to the sellers? Just curious...


SFMI4UT


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## HKJ

dmprok said:


> Thanks for awesome charts! It would have been real great if you could have sorted all your charts from highest to lowest performing battery, that way I can see immediately which battery is right for me.



That would not really be possible. Each chart show performance at more than one current and the best battery is not the same at each current.
This also means that you cannot find a single "best performing" battery, because it depends on application.



Changchung said:


> Hi HKJ, what you do with the batteries after test it? Keep it or send it back to the sellers? Just curious...



I keep the batteries and use the more extreme sizes when reviewing chargers and flashlights to find their limits on battery size.


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## Changchung

HKJ said:


> That would not really be possible. Each chart show performance at more than one current and the best battery is not the same at each current.
> This also means that you cannot find a single "best performing" battery, because it depends on application.
> 
> 
> 
> I keep the batteries and use the more extreme sizes when reviewing chargers and flashlights to find their limits on battery size.



Let me know if you want to get rid of some of them... 


SFMI4UT


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## flippflappy

First post here and A noob to all this battery stuff. Most Likely purchasing A sunwayman Tc40cs, Which batteries and which charger? Any and all advice appreciated. Thank You.


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## HKJ

flippflappy said:


> First post here and A noob to all this battery stuff. Most Likely purchasing A sunwayman Tc40cs, Which batteries and which charger? Any and all advice appreciated. Thank You.



A good battery is one based on the NCR18650A cell, this means just about all 3100mAh batteries. You can get them from AW, RediLast, Callies and a lot of other sources.
For a charger the 4Sevens and Pila is probably the best, but the Xtar WP2 II can also be used and it is not as expensive.


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## flippflappy

thank you very much HKJ. I have also been debating on purchasing a skilhunt defier x3, xml. what batteries would you suggest for this light?


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## HKJ

flippflappy said:


> thank you very much HKJ. I have also been debating on purchasing a skilhunt defier x3, xml. what batteries would you suggest for this light?



Looks like it needs 2x18500. The selection for this size battery is very small, AW has one and I have tested one from Keeppower. The Keeppower is good, but I do not know where you can get it. The AW is probably also good.
With the extension, you can use NCR18650A based batteries and will get twice the runtime.


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## flippflappy

HKJ said:


> Looks like it needs 2x18500. The selection for this size battery is very small, AW has one and I have tested one from Keeppower. The Keeppower is good, but I do not know where you can get it. The AW is probably also good.
> With the extension, you can use NCR18650A based batteries and will get twice the runtime.


----------



## flippflappy

HKJ said:


> Looks like it needs 2x18500. The selection for this size battery is very small, AW has one and I have tested one from Keeppower. The Keeppower is good, but I do not know where you can get it. The AW is probably also good.
> With the extension, you can use NCR18650A based batteries and will get twice the runtime.




Yea, I will definitely get the extender if I purchase this flashlight. Using the NCR18650A based batteries, should I be using 3100 mAh?


----------



## iron potato

Thank you HKJ, with your informative reviews on batteries & chargers, really appreciate your great work, as you help us to have ease of mind using Li-ion in the flashlight :thumbsup:


----------



## tobrien

youre doing such a great job man, thanks!


----------



## HKJ

flippflappy said:


> Yea, I will definitely get the extender if I purchase this flashlight. Using the NCR18650A based batteries, should I be using 3100 mAh?



The NCR18650A is 3100mAh, but you could also use the NCR18650 that is 2900mAh (i.e. a bit shorter runtime).


----------



## RAM2

HKJ thanks for the thorough evaluation and very objective approach.


----------



## flippflappy

HKJ thankyou for all of your help I really appreciate it. I have ended up purchasing a sunwayman t40cs, redilast 18650 3100 batteries and the pila charger.


----------



## Glenn7

One of the most usefull threads for our battery needs, thank you HKJ - used this to get 8 new inti-outdoor 3100 18650's for my SR90 - Callie's 3100's won't fitt to fat.


----------



## HKJ

All Keepower 18650 batteries has been added. It might be necessary to press F5 to reload the charts.
Note: for Keeppower 2800 and 3000 only the 4.3 volt charging is present, to see the 4.2 volt curves use the comparator.


----------



## FlatlandBusa

Thank you HKJ for doing this testing...:thumbsup: 

It saved me from spending money on several different brands of batteries trying to find a brand good one.

Thanks again!


----------



## nullmodem

Thanks HKJ...your page is the first place I go before buying new LiIon batteries. The new charts are really useful as well...helps one decide what load is going to be put on for the best battery for it.


----------



## Trevtrain

Many thanks HJK for a great resource. I don't know how you guys find the time but I'm glad you do! Being relatively new to high-powered lights and Li-Ion cells I have a lot to learn. Info like this is invaluable man!

I do have a question though; where is the best place to find info about cell diameter? 

I have seen numerous posts about oversized cells (>18mm) not fitting into certain specific flashlights. I know you can't possibly answer every question about what cell brand/model will fit what specific light but is confusing when I read one review that says for example, that Xtar cells won't fit the TN Catapult V3, and then another that lists the Intl-Outdoor cells as being the exact same diameter (18.5mm) 
How on earth does one make a purchase "sight unseen" as there are so few "bricks and mortar" shops here in Australia actually stocking and selling the stuff I am interested in.

All I can think to do is make posts asking if anyone has used Model X cell in Model Y flashlight but I'm sure those kinds of questions could clog up the forums really fast.

I'm pleased to hear that Intl-Outdoor seems to be a reputable dealer based on some comments in this thread. I was looking at purchasing from there but because the prices were so good, I wondered how I could go about making sure they weren't fake, salvaged or otherwise less than perfect cells? So far all I can do is search and hope someone has discussed the products/vendors I am looking at already.

Keep up the great work and thanks again.


----------



## czAtlantis

Hi, Thanks for the test...Have you considered doing cycle/durability testing on these batteries? 
I am very curious how long will the capacity last for cheaper (*Fire...) and expensive ones (sanyo, panasonic). I am going to do this testing myself (well I don't have charger yet but it is in my short-term plans  ) because I am very curious about this. Of course I can't afford many battery models and expensive charger (probably with multiple outputs/inputs to cycle more batteries at once) so it would be awesome if someone with your equipment and experience does it.
Also It would be great to test how charge/discharge voltages affect battery-life (charging to 4,2V vs 4,1V, discharge to 3,0V vs 2,5V etc...storing half-discharged or fully charged...)


----------



## tandem

Cycle testing takes a long time and ties up a good charger for the duration. In the radio control world there are folks who do it but they are lucky in some respects as current draw from the typical RC device (am thinking electric aircraft) is quite high so the discharge cycle is relatively short in duration. Li-po packs can also be charged at quite high rates many times "C". 

If you were to do a cycle test at the various light discharge rates commonly found (not those relative few extreme output light users) in our lights ( some < 1A, some at 1A, some at 1.5A, some at 3A) and at the charge rates most use (frequently well under 1A) to simulate average use, performing hundreds of cycles would take many hundreds of hours per cell. 

Anecdotally it does appear the better cells deliver better performance over more cycles.

Unless you need to buy hundreds of cells for hundreds of lights and thus have a meaningful budget to apply to cell purchases, why obsess over this anyway? Buy known good cells and be happy. The price delta between really good and questionable is not so large as to prevent anyone buying a flashlight from enjoying both peace of mind and an expectation of long cell cycle life.



> Also It would be great to test how charge/discharge voltages affect battery-life (charging to 4,2V vs 4,1V, discharge to 3,0V vs 2,5V etc...storing half-discharged or fully charged...)



The U.S. Army has done this; somewhere back in my posting history - might have been lost in the great crash, dunno, can't remember if my thread recovery tool recovered that thread - I started a thread that posted their results and IIRC the ensuing discussion was interesting. Unless the best applicable knowledge has changed since then the bottom line for me was the best cell cycle life could be obtained by avoiding charging fully. I don't believe it is known whether faster aging is a result of merely hitting max charge voltage (nearer 4.2V) or whether it is a factor of how long the cell stays there. I speculate that aging accelerates by hitting 4.2V or thereabouts given the U.S. Army cycle tests would not have left the cells in that state for an appreciable amount of time.

I'll find that thread and post some discharge tests of cells I've been using actively over the past two years. My bet with myself is that they still perform quite like new, as they still come up to the same voltages I recorded when they were fresh out of the box, as measured coming off the Pila, +/- a hundredth of a volt. None are suffering significant sag after sitting 24 hours post charge.

If you really want to obsess over this (I have been guilty of this at times myself) you could mark some cells and treat A as "normal", always charging fully, and B, C, D... as a low charge voltage specimens - purchase a hobby charger that is able to adjust the CC/CV parameters to complete at 4.0 or 4.1V. If the somewhat reduced runtime isn't an issue for you, maybe in three or five years you'll discover a pattern. Whatever you notice might not stand up to scrutiny given the small sample size but it may be interesting nonetheless. 

Or you could just buy good cells and enjoy the light they help deliver. 

For a while I was tracking every charge but gave up on that. As a result of the thread mentioned I did decide to change my charger's termination voltage to 4.1V for cells in regular use. Spares I don't intend to use for awhile I leave sitting at a lower storage voltage. If my PL8 is busy and I need to recharge some cells I don't sweat it and pop them on the Pila charger and let it terminate normally. Has more careful than usual treatment helped extend their cycle life? I've no idea.


----------



## HKJ

Trevtrain said:


> I do have a question though; where is the best place to find info about cell diameter?
> 
> I have seen numerous posts about oversized cells (>18mm) not fitting into certain specific flashlights. I know you can't possibly answer every question about what cell brand/model will fit what specific light but is confusing when I read one review that says for example, that Xtar cells won't fit the TN Catapult V3, and then another that lists the Intl-Outdoor cells as being the exact same diameter (18.5mm)
> How on earth does one make a purchase "sight unseen" as there are so few "bricks and mortar" shops here in Australia actually stocking and selling the stuff I am interested in.



The best place is probably the comparison on my website, there is a bar chart with the diameter of all tested batteries.
The problem with diameters is that it varies between batteries, even the same type. I always uses the largest diameter I can find on the two batteries I test.
Some of the reason for variations in diameter is the label and the connection strip inside the battery. When they are placed over each other you get the thickest battery. But I do not believe that this explain all tolerances, there must also be variations in the thickness of the heat shrink used.



czAtlantis said:


> Hi, Thanks for the test...Have you considered doing cycle/durability testing on these batteries?



Yes, but I do not like the time it takes.
One charge/discharge cycle is about 7 hours at 1A, doing 100 of these will be about a month. 
And the result would not be the same as a typical usage pattern, there there is also some storage time at full voltage, that will degrade the battery.


----------



## czAtlantis

As I said, I am going to run a test with few cells from Panasonic, Sanyo, Sony, and few *Fire cells to test cycle life - typically I imagine running 10charge/discharge cycles(chargers limit...don't have it yet but it is ordered), swap battery-->run 10cycles-->swap battery...I know It will be a long term run (1A charge and discharge) but it is my obsession :-D And I want to know which brand is better (and how much sux *fire cells....because honestly - they have half the price and quite good capacity (compared to branded ones)...not very good current capabilities but it is not necessary in all applications). I read many opinions that Panasonic batteries are much better than Sanyos etc...

Even incomplete results after for example 6months can show interesting data..
However- I am still not sure how to run the "4,2V 4,1V 4,0V test"

Options
A) Include these batteries in first test and just cycle first to 4,2, second 4,1.. and maybe third to 4,0V
B) make separate test where batteries are charged to desired voltage and left ~14days left alone and than re-cycled.


What do you think is better? Personally I would choose B because it more reflects standard usage - cell is charged to 100% and left sitting in torch, laptop etc..

Also how to measure capacity with "lower voltage battery" (I would like to know maximum capacity and not just capacity at 4,0V)
In option A
-->every X cycles (~25) run one cycle to 4,2V and mark capacity - I think it won't compromise results significantly.

In option B
--> every month before battery discharge run charge to 4,2V and then run discharge and mark capacity.


----------



## tandem

Panasonic cells can't be better than Sanyo.

Panasonic owns Sanyo, ergo, Panasonic *is* Sanyo.

As for tests... if your goal as stated "reflects standard usage" you'll be testing cells non stop for years and it'll probably also be years before you see any useful patterns emerge... but perhaps a shorter period of time for HouseFire brand cells.

Edit: If you want to reflect normal usage, you'll probably have to do something like:

- charge fully
- program your charger to do a discharge at 800ma for a couple minutes. Then a 4 second interval to simulate accidental blinding yourself. Then no activity for a week. Then 1 minute looking for lost keys. Then 2 hours walking home along dark trail. Etc. Recharge. Lose flashlight in drawer of hell. Find a year later find it still mostly fully charged. Etc.

What is normal usage anyway?


----------



## czAtlantis

Well If Panasonic owns Sanyo so why are they manufacturing under both brands different products?
It looks like they are owned by Panasonic but they are still manufacturing in their old factories... Maybe later they will merge into one.
For example there is sometrhing about panasonics and sanyos: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=614680

Normal usage - well I'm not 100% flashaholic. I am more interested in batteries in general and specially in laptops and electronics like this. So normal usage is sitting 100% charged for few days and when discharged down to almost 0% and again recharged to 100% and repeat...At least it will demonstrate degeneration at various voltages. I am interested mainly because few people asked me how they should set power manager in their Lenovo laptos. It allows you to change charge thresholds - So you can charge only to 80% and increase battery lifespan (at least Lenovo claims it). And I would like to confirm this and how much will it help.


----------



## tandem

czAtlantis, you should start up a new thread and leave this discussion out of HKJ's.

OT but on your topic: I have my Lenovo Thinkpad X220 set to charge only below 80%. The U.S. Army study convinced me.


----------



## GehenSienachlinks

HKJ , what you think about the panasonic 18650 3100 mah and 2900 mah , would you be doing test on them ?


----------



## tobrien

HKJ said:


> All Keepower 18650 batteries has been added. It might be necessary to press F5 to reload the charts.
> Note: for Keeppower 2800 and 3000 only the 4.3 volt charging is present, to see the 4.2 volt curves use the comparator.


holy cow that comparator is nice!


----------



## Trevtrain

HKJ said:


> The best place is probably the comparison on my website, there is a bar chart with the diameter of all tested batteries.
> The problem with diameters is that it varies between batteries, even the same type. I always uses the largest diameter I can find on the two batteries I test.
> Some of the reason for variations in diameter is the label and the connection strip inside the battery. When they are placed over each other you get the thickest battery. But I do not believe that this explain all tolerances, there must also be variations in the thickness of the heat shrink used.




Thanks HJK
I think I recall seeing your bar graph a few days ago, it's a good start but unfortunately that's only half the information we really need as buyers.
I guess now all we need to do is somehow convince all of the flashlight manufacturers to include the battery tube's internal diameter in their specs! :shrug:


----------



## SouthernSorrows

so pretty much according to the charts callies customs 3100's are on par with or slightly better than AW's 3100's ?


----------



## HKJ

SouthernSorrows said:


> so pretty much according to the charts callies customs 3100's are on par with or slightly better than AW's 3100's ?



All 3100mAh batteries has the same cell inside, i.e. there are only minor differences between them. The protection circuit add a small resistance to the circuit (See internal resistance chart), a lower value is better, but the difference is minor for most batteries.


----------



## python

Thanks HKJ...for this informations. And for other in your page. All are very useful :thumbsup:


----------



## HKJ

Added a LG 3000mAh cell and AW 2600mAh battery.

The LG is very interesting, it has a high voltage for a LiIon cell (Because it is a 4.35 volt cell) and the capacity and energy will in many application be more than a 3100mAh cell:


----------



## tobrien

i can't wait to see you review the orbtronic cells. i just found out about them thanks to CPF and they look like an amazing deal. i'm one state above them so it should be insanely awesome to have a source for li-ions like 3100 mAh Panasonics and so forth that actually ship domestically and get here in UNDER two weeks, you know?


----------



## richardcpf

The LG cells looks very promising for high drain lights such as the TM11.

But do you know what would be the best way to charge them? I currently have the i4 charger, Hobby charger setup and pila charger. But I doubt any of them would fully charge to 4.35v.

Thanks for your input.


----------



## HKJ

richardcpf said:


> But do you know what would be the best way to charge them? I currently have the i4 charger, Hobby charger setup and pila charger. But I doubt any of them would fully charge to 4.35v.



Ask CottonPickers if he have any 4.35 volt chargers left.
Some hobby chargers (Like iCharger) can charge to 4.3 volt.


----------



## chemist

Where did you get the Ultrafire 4000mAh 18650s? From their website it appears the highest capacity 18650 they make is 3000mAh.


----------



## HKJ

chemist said:


> Where did you get the Ultrafire 4000mAh 18650s? From their website it appears the highest capacity 18650 they make is 3000mAh.



If you check the individual review for that battery, it says where I got it from (DealExtreme). These reviews can also be found on my website.


----------



## Changchung

Hi HKJ, I have a doubt, I have some 3100 panasonic, the factory chart clain that the max discharge current is 2C but I notice that some protected 3100 panasonic based claim more discharge current, in some cases more that 5,9amp.


SFMI4UT


----------



## Changchung

HKJ said:


> If you check the individual review for that battery, it says where I got it from (DealExtreme). These reviews can also be found on my website.



Dont lost your money with those batteries...


SFMI4UT


----------



## HKJ

Changchung said:


> Hi HKJ, I have a doubt, I have some 3100 panasonic, the factory chart clain that the max discharge current is 2C but I notice that some protected 3100 panasonic based claim more discharge current, in some cases more that 5,9amp.



2C for 3100 is 6.1 ampere.
But you are right, in some specifications it is difficult to see what is protection trip current and what is maximum rated current for the battery.


----------



## Changchung

HKJ said:


> 2C for 3100 is 6.1 ampere.
> But you are right, in some specifications it is difficult to see what is protection trip current and what is maximum rated current for the battery.



Thank you so much sir... 


SFMI4UT


----------



## HKJ

Since my last note about added batteries I have added:
3 Orbtronic batteris: 3100, 2900, 2250 (High current)
LG 2800 
PALight 3000mAh (A cheap battery)

I have also published test of TrustFire 3000mAh, the test includes batteries from 3 different manufacturers, but I have not added the result to the charts (For comparison use the comparator)


----------



## HKJ

More batteries have been added:
RediLast 2600mAh (Black)
NCR18650A protected (Green)
TrustFire TF26650 5000mAh (Flame) from one more dealer (Not included in the charts).
Fenix 18650 ARB-L2 2600mAh (Black)


My stock of batteries to test is nearly exhaust (Slightly over 1 month testing remains) and I am open to suggestions about other batteries to test.

Edit:
All the batteries: 
Front: Working on
Middle: In queue
Back: Done


----------



## Shadowww

HKJ said:


> My stock of batteries to test is nearly exhaust (Slightly over 1 month testing remains) and I am open to suggestions about other batteries to test.



The 4.35V 3400mAh Panasonic NCR18650B that just went for sale on CNQualityGoods?


----------



## TedTheLed

just found this thread, d'oh.
wow. beautiful. thanks!

...so where is the best buy on LG pinks???!!!


----------



## HKJ

Shadowww said:


> The 4.35V 3400mAh Panasonic NCR18650B that just went for sale on CNQualityGoods?



I will be reviewing/testing the NCR18650B cell, but it will be some time before I have it.


----------



## Shadowww

TedTheLed said:


> just found this thread, d'oh.
> wow. beautiful. thanks!
> 
> ...so where is the best buy on LG pinks???!!!



There aren't many options, really.. check eBay item #330726158728 for example.


----------



## czAtlantis

How do you think these pink LGs charged to 4.3V will perform in cycle life compared to another batteries like Panasonic 3100, 2900....
I mean if the capacity will last or will wear out quickly

EDIT:


HKJ said:


> ....and I am open to suggestions about other batteries to test.


How about Samsung 18650 3000mAh ones? They can be charged up to 4.35V So I would like to see them compared with pink LGs  I found them on ebay for 21USd/pair
And also interesting batteries can be Sanyo 2800 mAh ones, they can be also charged to higher voltage level - 4.3V, they are also around 20USD/pair


----------



## Incahoots

What batteries would be best for a Spark ST6-500CW with 18650's. Not really good at figuring out the charts.



Thank you


----------



## Incahoots

I don't fully understand how to read the charts, yet. I'm curious as to what 18650s would be best for a Spark ST6-500CW. 


Thank you!


----------



## RI Chevy

Any of the 3100 mAh Panasonic NCR18650A versions if they fit. Panasonic makes a great cell.


----------



## Changchung

[h=3]Sticky please [/h]


----------



## Shadowww

RI Chevy said:


> Any of the 3100 mAh Panasonic NCR18650A versions if they fit. Panasonic makes a great cell.



There already are bunch of NCR18650A-based battery tests (Keeppower, Xtar, RediLast, AW and other 3100mAh batteries)


----------



## Colonel Sanders

The NCR18650B is now the top dog. Check out the graph in post #39 on this page...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?339151-3400mAh-Panasonic-NCR18650B/page2


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Changchung,

Have you looked here?

Tom


----------



## Changchung

SilverFox said:


> Hello Changchung,
> 
> Have you looked here?
> 
> Tom



No, I dont, but I do it already... Great... thanks for let it me know...


----------



## wshyang

Sorry for the newbie question, but what charger was used to get all those measurements and discharge curves?


----------



## HKJ

wshyang said:


> Sorry for the newbie question, but what charger was used to get all those measurements and discharge curves?



It was not a regular charger or battery tester, but some electronic lab equipment with computer control.


----------



## Chowderhead72

Very informative thread.... Could you or someone make a battery recommendation for a Sunwayman t60cs? If use has any bearing on suggestion it will be used primarily on medium with occasional hi/turbo bursts. Runtime on medium is very important to my situation. Thank you in advance.


----------



## HighlanderNorth

I will predict that the Trustfire batteries will prove to be the best across the charts!


----------



## HKJ

Chowderhead72 said:


> Very informative thread.... Could you or someone make a battery recommendation for a Sunwayman t60cs? If use has any bearing on suggestion it will be used primarily on medium with occasional hi/turbo bursts. Runtime on medium is very important to my situation. Thank you in advance.



I have not measured on the T60CS, but I would guess that NCR18650(A) i.e. 2900/3100mAh batteries will be good for it. You can get these from many different brands.


----------



## wshyang

HighlanderNorth said:


> I will predict that the Trustfire batteries will prove to be the best across the charts!



Thanks for the tip, I just got some unprotected Trustfires 

What a deal, 4 unprotected cells for the price of 1 protected AW.


----------



## HKJ

wshyang said:


> Thanks for the tip, I just got some unprotected Trustfires
> 
> What a deal, 4 unprotected cells for the price of 1 protected AW.



The deal might not be so good when you get to use the batteries. They do often have low capacity, higher internal resistance and a lower current limit. Even the battery that tested good in my test is sold in bad versions.
To get good batteries you do not have to buy AW, it is just an easy route for people to get good batteries, without any hassle.


----------



## wshyang

HKJ said:


> The deal might not be so good when you get to use the batteries. They do often have low capacity, higher internal resistance and a lower current limit. Even the battery that tested good in my test is sold in bad versions.
> To get good batteries you do not have to buy AW, it is just an easy route for people to get good batteries, without any hassle.



Yes I know 

I got some of the grey 2500mah Trustfires because they are cheap, and figured that they will be good for testing out that USB power box I got from eBay. Not knowing how the box is like, I don't want to risk putting expensive cells inside and getting them ruined. For a couple months I can live with charging the box outdoors, and if it does overcharges the poor cells and blows up, well... so be it


----------



## czAtlantis

I think the best price-quality/power ratio have Sanyo 2600mAh which I found on Ebay for 5,99/piece including shipping. Maybe with larger quantites you could get even better deal. I really don't see a point saving 2usd/cell and buying crappy trustfires.
And yes, those Sanyo ones look genuine - I ordered few of them and even other cells(Panasonic, Sony) from the same seller and they are all OK.


----------



## Chowderhead72

HKJ said:


> I have not measured on the T60CS, but I would guess that NCR18650(A) i.e. 2900/3100mAh batteries will be good for it. You can get these from many different brands.



Thank you! Very helpful. Other than AW would you have a brand or distributor for the protected final product? Battery junction or others?

Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way but almost $20 per cell seems a bit inflated? Wouldn't you agree?


----------



## HKJ

Chowderhead72 said:


> Thank you! Very helpful. Other than AW would you have a brand or distributor for the protected final product? Battery junction or others?
> 
> Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way but almost $20 per cell seems a bit inflated? Wouldn't you agree?



Some possibilities are CalliesKustoms, EagleTac, Intl-outdoor, Orbtronic, RediLast and Xtar. The price varies, but it is possible to get below $15 including shippig.

Using a protected 18650 as a stand alone is not very common, this makes the battery more expensive (Mostly 18650 are used in battery packs for laptops without individual cell protection).


----------



## Chowderhead72

HKJ said:


> Using a protected 18650 as a stand alone is not very common, this makes the battery more expensive (Mostly 18650 are used in battery packs for laptops without individual cell protection).



Huh?

You are suggesting non-protected cells in a three cell light? I thought that was only recommended in a single cell configuration where the low voltage cut-off worked as protection.


----------



## HKJ

Chowderhead72 said:


> Huh?
> 
> You are suggesting non-protected cells in a three cell light? I thought that was only recommended in a single cell configuration where the low voltage cut-off worked as protection.



No, except when it is a battery pack with a common protection.

18650 batteries is sold for use in battery packs with common protection, not for use as single cells (protected or not). This means that the the number of individual protected batteries manufactured is rather limited and this leads to higher price.

The last two years has seen a number of new 18650 dealers and increased the competition, this has lowered the price on quality batteries.


----------



## Colonel Sanders

HKJ, I just did a little testing on the new Panasonic 3400 and let me tell you....you're going to be IMPRESSED with this new cell! At a 4a load it holds voltage like an IMR cell. Starting voltage was 4.22v and I ended at 2.75v....how about *3305mah?!?* Again, that's at a *4a load* on a brand new cell with no cycles. If it's like most cells I've tested, it should pick up a little more with several more cycles.

Most impressive was it's ability to maintain voltage. :bow: Think of it as a hybrid IMR cell with 3400+ capacity. 

I am extremely pleased with this initial testing to say the least. I look forward to seeing your testing.


----------



## HKJ

Colonel Sanders said:


> HKJ, I just did a little testing on the new Panasonic 3400 and let me tell you....you're going to be IMPRESSED with this new cell! At a 4a load it holds voltage like an IMR cell. Starting voltage was 4.22v and I ended at 2.75v....how about *3305mah?!?* Again, that's at a *4a load* on a brand new cell with no cycles. If it's like most cells I've tested, it should pick up a little more with several more cycles.
> 
> Most impressive was it's ability to maintain voltage. :bow: Think of it as a hybrid IMR cell with 3400+ capacity.
> 
> I am extremely pleased with this initial testing to say the least. I look forward to seeing your testing.



I do have test data for two different sets of Panasonic 3400mAh (one protected and one unprotected).
I have not really been looking at the data yet, because I need to rescale everything to handle 3400mAh.


----------



## HKJ

A couple of new test/reviews has been posted, including the two 3400mAh.

I have changed the scale on most charts to accommodate the 3400mAh batteries, this scale will be the default for all new 18650 test I publish. I might also update the chart scales on the older tests, but I have not done that yet.


----------



## tobrien

HKJ said:


> A couple of new test/reviews has been posted, including the two 3400mAh.
> 
> I have changed the scale on most charts to accommodate the 3400mAh batteries, this scale will be the default for all new 18650 test I publish. I might also update the chart scales on the older tests, but I have not done that yet.



thanks!


----------



## pabcor

tobrien said:


> thanks!



Good job, would interesting one graph showing the power 2A or 3A for example.


----------



## HKJ

pabcor said:


> Good job, would interesting one graph showing the power 2A or 3A for example.



Find the individual reviews, they contain discharge curves for both 2A and 3A.


----------



## 1c3d0g

The new 3400mAh batteries look very promising. It'll be interesting to see what the modders like AW can do with these new cells. 

P.S. mods, this thread * DEFINITELY * needs to be stickied!


----------



## HKJ

1c3d0g said:


> The new 3400mAh batteries look very promising. It'll be interesting to see what the modders like AW can do with these new cells.



A guess would be that AW makes a short version (About 68mm) with a flat top like he has done with the 2900/3100mAh batteries.




1c3d0g said:


> P.S. mods, this thread * DEFINITELY * needs to be stickied!



The sticky has moved to the "Threads of interest", this way it does not use up the first page of threads.


----------



## GehenSienachlinks

Why does the chart show that your keepper 2800 mah are 4.3 volts when they should be limited to 4.2 ?


----------



## HKJ

GehenSienachlinks said:


> Why does the chart show that your keepper 2800 mah are 4.3 volts when they should be limited to 4.2 ?



Some LiIon cells are designed for more than 4.2 volt, the 2800 is one of these.
In my comparator you can see and compare results for both 4.2 volt and 4.3 volt.


----------



## vpr5703

This is awesome. I've been prodding for a few days around your website, way to go. This is the exact reason I bought AW and Kallie Customs cells a few days ago. Love it.

Asus TF300T w/ Tapatalk


----------



## theFLASH12

HKJ,

What's the possibility of you adding to your list by testing this EFEST battery. Supplier says it's a Panasoic NCR18650B:

EFEST 18650 NCR18650B? (http://www.efestbattery.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=919)

I am willing to donate (send you) ONE battery, to get accurate analysis as you did with batteries on this list (hopefully shipping/mail is not outrageously expensive).


----------



## StylesTW

I'm having a problem reading the chart. You mentioned a flashlight like the Klarus XT 10 or in my case a Klarus XT 11 which uses an XM-L U2, needs 3A. When reading the chart the Ultra Fire BRC 18650 4000mAh has the longest yellow bar, meaning a longer running time which is what I'm looking for. The price for this battery online seems to be less than $8 dollars for 2 batteries + a charger, when the Ultra Fire BRC 18650 3000mAh is more expensive. How is that battery that cheap yet have such good test results?

Do you guys recommend that battery? Anything better for an XT 11 flashlight. I'm looking for the longest running time on an 18650 protected single cell. 
*
Editing Post. I think I got it, the chart is a bar on top of a bar, which means something like the Keeppower 3400mAh would have the longest running time.*

Thanks.


----------



## HKJ

theFLASH12 said:


> HKJ,
> 
> What's the possibility of you adding to your list by testing this EFEST battery. Supplier says it's a Panasoic NCR18650B:
> 
> EFEST 18650 NCR18650B? (http://www.efestbattery.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=919)
> 
> I am willing to donate (send you) ONE battery, to get accurate analysis as you did with batteries on this list (hopefully shipping/mail is not outrageously expensive).



I have it on order, but it will probably be some time before it arrives.



StylesTW said:


> I'm having a problem reading the chart. You mentioned a flashlight like the Klarus XT 10 or in my case a Klarus XT 11 which uses an XM-L U2, needs 3A. When reading the chart the Ultra Fire BRC 18650 4000mAh has the longest yellow bar, meaning a longer running time which is what I'm looking for. The price for this battery online seems to be less than $8 dollars for 2 batteries + a charger, when the Ultra Fire BRC 18650 3000mAh is more expensive. How is that battery that cheap yet have such good test results?
> 
> Do you guys recommend that battery? Anything better for an XT 11 flashlight. I'm looking for the longest running time on an 18650 protected single cell.
> *
> Editing Post. I think I got it, the chart is a bar on top of a bar, which means something like the Keeppower 3400mAh would have the longest running time.*
> 
> Thanks.



Correct, this also means that when the yellow line is on top the battery cannot supply enough current for the 5A test.
You can get an idea about the runtime if you check the full comparison, there is also bar charts scaled in hours/minutes.


----------



## theFLASH12

Great, hope you post it here as many of us are subscribed to the updates to this thread, and this is an excellent price for one of the best performing 18650 batteries listed THANKS!!! 



HKJ said:


> I have it on order, but it will probably be some time before it arrives.
> .


----------



## HKJ

theFLASH12 said:


> Great, hope you post it here as many of us are subscribed to the updates to this thread, and this is an excellent price for one of the best performing 18650 batteries listed THANKS!!!



I do not always post here when posting new reviews. In fact I am very much behind, since last update I have posted these:
Sanyo 18650 2600mAh (Red), Samsung ICR18650-28A 2800mAh (Purple), EnerPower+ 18650 2900mAh 3C (Blue), EnerPower+ 18650 2250mAh (Blue), EnerPower+ 18650 3400mAh (Blue), Hi-Max 18650 2600mAh (White), Keeppower 16650 2000mAh (Black), GTL 18650 5000mAh (Blue), Intl-Outdoor UR18650FM 2600mAh (Black)

The full list of my reviews is probably the best place to see if I have published new reviews, it is always in chronological order with newest entries at top (This list only includes batteries close to 18650 batteries in size).
There is a similar list for smaller batteries and 26650 batteries are on the same list as chargers and other battery stuff.


----------



## theFLASH12

*OK, no problem, thanks for the extra links. I'll check there frequently, although this list you put together (in this thread) is an excellent comparison against other existing 18650 batteries.....Thanks Again for your awesome work!*



HKJ said:


> I do not always post here when posting new reviews. In fact I am very much behind, since last update I have posted these:
> Sanyo 18650 2600mAh (Red), Samsung ICR18650-28A 2800mAh (Purple), EnerPower+ 18650 2900mAh 3C (Blue), EnerPower+ 18650 2250mAh (Blue), EnerPower+ 18650 3400mAh (Blue), Hi-Max 18650 2600mAh (White), Keeppower 16650 2000mAh (Black), GTL 18650 5000mAh (Blue), Intl-Outdoor UR18650FM 2600mAh (Black)
> 
> The full list of my reviews is probably the best place to see if I have published new reviews, it is always in chronological order with newest entries at top (This list only includes batteries close to 18650 batteries in size).
> There is a similar list for smaller batteries and 26650 batteries are on the same list as chargers and other battery stuff.


----------



## jasmul

im a newbie and i dont understand how to read chart. i have a fenix tk35 and it uses 2 18650. i was wondering if someone could help me understand the chart or recommend a sold rechargeable battery for me.


----------



## HKJ

jasmul said:


> im a newbie and i dont understand how to read chart. i have a fenix tk35 and it uses 2 18650. i was wondering if someone could help me understand the chart or recommend a sold rechargeable battery for me.



Look in the "Dicharge, Capacity", it is a couple of stacked bars. The batteries with the longest blue and cyan bar are the best for the TK35. That will be the 3400mAh batteries, followed by the 3100mAh batteries.


----------



## guiri

Ok, this is just awesome.

I've looked at your tests before and although I'm too damn stupid to understand the charts and all the other stuff
(I usually skip to the conclusion), I think this is a great service that you provide and much thanks.

I want to get a few high capacity 18650's for a few lights I have coming but I want to get a good battery
for general use as I have no idea about all the tech stuff.

So, my question would be, who's got the best deal on a 2900-3100 mAh battery with a REAL button top?

Someone with free shipping over a certain amount would be cool.

By the way, who pays for all this and do you want some donations for your work?

Thanks

George


----------



## HKJ

guiri said:


> I've looked at your tests before and although I'm too damn stupid to understand the charts and all the other stuff
> (I usually skip to the conclusion), I think this is a great service that you provide and much thanks.



It is not that difficult, but it might require a bit of time to figure it out.




guiri said:


> I want to get a few high capacity 18650's for a few lights I have coming but I want to get a good battery
> for general use as I have no idea about all the tech stuff.
> 
> So, my question would be, who's got the best deal on a 2900-3100 mAh battery with a REAL button top?
> 
> Someone with free shipping over a certain amount would be cool.




I do usual not keep up with price, but if you are US based try checking Orbtronic. I do not know if they are the cheapest, but they have button top.




guiri said:


> By the way, who pays for all this and do you want some donations for your work?



That is mostly me, but I do also get a lot of batteries from the different manufacturers/dealers (if I got the battery for free, I write it at the bottom of the test).
There is no reason for donations, it is not that expensive.


----------



## guiri

Thanks


----------



## dno36

*Re: Your work/2012 Battery test/review summary*



HKJ said:


> Look in the "Dicharge, Capacity", it is a couple of stacked bars. The batteries with the longest blue and cyan bar are the best for the TK35. That will be the 3400mAh batteries, followed by the 3100mAh batteries.



Thank You HKJ for your testing and your help given to those of us who ask for it here.
You are a stellar example for all forum 'leaders'. From all of us out here - Thank You Thank You 

That given, as a newbie on this board I have a question....
I am expanding my number of lights, now at 11, and batteries.
Some of the lights I buy come with batteries as a package deal.
Recently I picked up 2-18650 batteries labeled "ultracell 4300 wAh 3.7v". They protected and have a translucent pinkish-red wrapper and a small top tab.
I tried to find some info or a test done on these somewhere....anywhere.....nothing to be had.
I actually own some ultracell NiZn 1.6v AAA's, and they are OK, not special. I could find nothing of 18650's from them.

This being the case I am assuming that they are rebadged from another maker and supplied for my seller or maybe they just started making the 18650's.
These look quite a bit like cytac 2400 blue/white or the spiderfire gray lc3000. Your 2011 tests showing the bottom surface did help here.
They seem to be ghosts
I am wondering if you have seen these before?
I shall try and attach a pic link here, if I can figure it out. - http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af94/dno36/IMG_20121127_172729.jpg

Thank You again for all you are doing to help us learn and self-educate.

Dean


----------



## Wacki

Any chance of testing Tenergy 18650 batteries?


----------



## HKJ

dno36 said:


> Recently I picked up 2-18650 batteries labeled "ultracell 4300 wAh 3.7v". They protected and have a translucent pinkish-red wrapper and a small top tab.
> I tried to find some info or a test done on these somewhere....anywhere.....nothing to be had.



I have not seen these cells before, with that kind of specifications they must be some cheap Chinese batteries of low quality.
Maybe something like the GTL.



Wacki said:


> Any chance of testing Tenergy 18650 batteries?



I do not have the in my plans. If somebody can give me a link to a dealer that ships to EU (use PM), I will consider it.


----------



## daveam

HKJ: Regarding interpreting the charts, I think now I'm confused. Referencing your "how to read the charts" I came to the conclusion that the best batteries (max output for longest duration) for a Thrunite TN30 (3 18650 in series) would be one of the 2600 mAh Sanyo based cells. (Excluding the 4.35V LG batteries.) Now I'm thinking it's a Panasonic based 3400 cell?
Help!
Also, regarding the 4.35V batteries; is there a particular hobby charger that you (or anyone else) would recommend?

Many thanks!


----------



## Shadowww

daveam said:


> HKJ: Regarding interpreting the charts, I think now I'm confused. Referencing your "how to read the charts" I came to the conclusion that the best batteries (max output for longest duration) for a Thrunite TN30 (3 18650 in series) would be one of the 2600 mAh Sanyo based cells. (Excluding the 4.35V LG batteries.) Now I'm thinking it's a Panasonic based 3400 cell?
> Help!
> Also, regarding the 4.35V batteries; is there a particular hobby charger that you (or anyone else) would recommend?
> 
> Many thanks!


For 4.35V batteries: none of hobby chargers can do 4.35V charging, but iCharger line can do 4.3V without a problem (cheapest of them is 106B+ at ~$80)


----------



## HKJ

daveam said:


> HKJ: Regarding interpreting the charts, I think now I'm confused. Referencing your "how to read the charts" I came to the conclusion that the best batteries (max output for longest duration) for a Thrunite TN30 (3 18650 in series) would be one of the 2600 mAh Sanyo based cells. (Excluding the 4.35V LG batteries.) Now I'm thinking it's a Panasonic based 3400 cell?



Sorry aboth the late answer, I have been on a vacation.

I you look at the curves in my review, you will see that the TN30 needs about 10.2 volt for full output on high, that is about 3.4 volt for each battery, you can also see that it will draw about 3A at that voltage.
Using that value in the battery comparator, the Sanyo battery is best for maintaining full brightness.
You can also look at the point where the two discharge curves meet again (Around 3.22 volt or 9.66 volt for 3 batteries in series) and go back to the flashlight and see at what brightness that happens (Around 50 %).

You can see the two curves I have used below, with lines showing the points I have looked at:

















daveam said:


> Also, regarding the 4.35V batteries; is there a particular hobby charger that you (or anyone else) would recommend?



I have not seen more than 4.3 volt in a hoppy charger, but Cottonpickers (From our market place) does make a 4.35 volt charger.


----------



## pobox1475

HKJ said:


> For longest total runtime the 3100 mAh battery will probably be best, the manufacturer does not really matter (for runtime), because they all uses the same cell inside.
> If you want longest runtime at full brightness, you need to look at the "Discharge, capacity down to 3.6 volt" and with a 800 lumen light it is somewhere between the cyan and yellow bar (2-3 ampere), again the 3100 mAh batteries does well.


 Can you give recommendation for a readily available cell to use in a JetBeam RRT-21?


----------



## HKJ

pobox1475 said:


> Can you give recommendation for a readily available cell to use in a JetBeam RRT-21?



No, I do not have the light.

More generally I can say that you will probably get the longest runtime at maximum brightness with a 2600mAh battery and the longest total runtime with a 3400mAh battery.
Of course I will recommend getting batteries that are based on cells from the big factories, i.e. the ones I give good or very good rating in my reviews.

For good dealers/brands I can remember Wonderlight (AW) from cpfmarketplace, Callies Kustoms, Orbtronic, Redilast, and Xtar that can be found in US (I have probably missed a few).


----------



## LandToSea

HKJ said:


> TK21 and PD32 uses a single 18650 and that is the 3.6 volt chart. At max. they will probably use around 1.5 ampere, i.e. somewhere between the blue and cyan bar. This means that the Spark 2600 will give longer runtime at max. brightness (TrustFire 3000 will also, but there might be variation between batches).



First off, thank you for such an awesome resource! 

Based on your full review on your website I assume this statement is not true for the Ultimate versions of the TK21 and PD32 which are both XM-L? See quote below which makes me think this.
"For current XR-E, XP-E is 1A, XP-G is 1.5A, and a XM-L led will need 3A."

I came to this thread looking for 18650 batteries specifically for these two lights in the Ultimate version. I believe I need to be looking for the longest yellow bar in the 3.6v graph? From what I can tell the below are the best choices. Finding them is another challenge so unless someone can point me in the right direction as to where I can buy some options below I may just buy the pricey Fenix direct?

Fenix 18650 ARB-L2 2600mAh
Intl-Outdoor UR18650FM 2600mAh
Keeppower 18650 2800mAh
Redilast 2600mAh

Also, can you clarify which Samsung ICR is on top of the chart results and which is on the bottom? The full description is cutoff and there are significant differences in the results of the two. Thanks!


----------



## HKJ

I have made some indexes with test of specific brands:

Index to specific brands: AW, Efest, EnerPower, Keeppower, TrustFire
Index to comparators: 18350/16340/14500/10440/etc., 18700/18650/18500/17650/etc.


----------



## nanoxd

Best battery for the new Fenix TK 75 is?


----------



## HKJ

nanoxd said:


> Best battery for the new Fenix TK 75 is?



Depends on the driver in the light, but using a Panasonic 3100/3400 protected battery (Exists from many brands) will probably be a good option.


----------



## nanoxd

HKJ said:


> Depends on the driver in the light, but using a Panasonic 3100/3400 protected battery (Exists from many brands) will probably be a good option.



The light is new would they all have the same driver? How would I know?


----------



## nanoxd

Who sells Keeppower 18650. My google search had no hits?


----------



## HKJ

nanoxd said:


> The light is new would they all have the same driver? How would I know?



All TK75 has the same driver.
What is interesting is if it can keep constant output, when the batteries are down to 3 volt or even 2.5 volt, if it can the 3100/3400 batteries are perfect for the light.
It the brightness drops when the battery voltage drops, some 2600mAh batteries might be better if you want maximal brightness, but 3100/3400 are still better if you look for longest runtime.

To read my battery charts, this might help:





The yellow line is full brightness, voltage above this line will not give more brightness. This position of this line depends on the light/driver and selected brightness level, in my reviews I usual includes curves where this voltage can be seen.


----------



## democopy

HKJ said:


> I have made some indexes with test of specific brands:
> 
> Index to specific brands: AW, Efest, EnerPower, Keeppower, TrustFire
> Index to comparators: 18350/16340/14500/10440/etc., 18700/18650/18500/17650/etc.



Great Information!

Which is the cheapeast Panasonic driven cell?

Thanks


----------



## space-cowboy

Fenix TK75 + Orbtronic 3400mAh = 4 hours and 46 Minutes on HIGH.


Source: Youtube


----------



## MinorThreat

Let me preface with I'm really green to LED flashlights and 18650 batteries. I bought a TrustFire TR-3T6 online strictly based on claimed lumens not realizing it doesn't take AA batteries. So now I have it in hand and start researching quality batteries and find that one battery may perform great in one flashlight and not so great in another based on the electronics and LED's in the assembly. So if I can't buy based on mah I was hoping someone here is familiar with this light and it's components that could direct me to a good choice of 18650 battery. Is it complicated even further whether I'm using just 2 cells versus 3 with an extension tube? Thanks in avance for any assistance...


----------



## RI Chevy

Welcome to the Forum! :welcome: 

Stick with a good "brand name" battery. Do your research through fellow member HKJ's battery comparator website and you will be fine. I personally stay away from anything *****fire. 

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php From here you cvan click on the "individual test" link or just use the pull down tabs to look for what you want.


----------



## __philippe

RI Chevy said:


> Welcome to the Forum! :welcome:
> 
> Stick with a good "brand name" battery. Do your research through fellow member HKJ's battery comparator website and you will be fine.
> *I personally stay away from anything *****fire. *



Wise advice about any CN ****Fire branded batteries, aka _BackFire, MisFire, SpitFire, WontFire..._

Keep off anything ****Fire if you can, handle only with a bargepole if you must...

__philippe


----------



## psychbeat

Any idea if the Sanyo 2800 are as good at high drain as the Sanyo 2600?

I didn't see them on the list. 
Sorry if its already been discussed


----------



## MinorThreat

__philippe said:


> Wise advice about any CN ****Fire branded batteries, aka _BackFire, MisFire, SpitFire, WontFire..._
> 
> Keep off anything ****Fire if you can, handle only with a bargepole if you must...
> 
> __philippe



Thanks guys. I'll go with my first instinct and stick with a Panasonic core 3400, or higher mah as they become available.


----------



## HKJ

psychbeat said:


> Any idea if the Sanyo 2800 are as good at high drain as the Sanyo 2600?
> 
> I didn't see them on the list.
> Sorry if its already been discussed



If you mean the Sanyo UR18650ZT 2800mAh, I am testing the raw cell at the current time (This takes about two weeks, because I run tests at both 4.2 and 4.3 volt).


----------



## ShawnHu

Hi HKJ. I'm new here, and this is my first post. Your extensive tests on these batteries has led me to this forum, and I have a question for you.

I'm looking for a 2.8-3 amp draw battery for my XML U2 flashlight. Would you be able to recommend a few budget friendly batteries out of your chart? Is it reasonable to be able to get these at under $5 shipped or do they cost more?

I suspect that after viewing your chart, a Sanyo and Panasonic seems to be good. I believe I should be looking at the 3.6v drain charts. 

Thank you much!


----------



## HKJ

ShawnHu said:


> I'm looking for a 2.8-3 amp draw battery for my XML U2 flashlight. Would you be able to recommend a few budget friendly batteries out of your chart? Is it reasonable to be able to get these at under $5 shipped or do they cost more?
> 
> I suspect that after viewing your chart, a Sanyo and Panasonic seems to be good. I believe I should be looking at the 3.6v drain charts.



The 3.6 volt is probably a good limit, it leaves about 0.3 volt for the driver.

I will not recommend xxxFire or other really cheap batteries, stay with the brand names. Try checking fastech for Sanyo prices.


----------



## citrus

Wow! Thank you for your time in putting this very informative review. I now have a base to use.


----------



## psychbeat

HKJ said:


> If you mean the Sanyo UR18650ZT 2800mAh, I am testing the raw cell at the current time (This takes about two weeks, because I run tests at both 4.2 and 4.3 volt).



Ooops - I didn't realize they were 4.3v max. 
I still haven't jumped on the higher voltage cells...even tho almost all of my lights are 7315 based using one or sometimes 4 18650 parallel. 

the red Sanyo 2600 is still probably he best choice for 3-5a drain (I use mostly unprotected)

Might have to get a cottonpickers 4.3V charger if these higher voltage cells keep coming out & performing so well. .


----------



## phips

Thanks a lot for the huge comparison!
However I think it is strange that you mention linear drivers and thus graphs with capacity.
Wouldn't modern (current regulated) flashlights benefit mostly from energy content?


----------



## HKJ

phips said:


> Thanks a lot for the huge comparison!
> However I think it is strange that you mention linear drivers and thus graphs with capacity.
> Wouldn't modern (current regulated) flashlights benefit mostly from energy content?



For a buck or boost converter the efficiency will vary with voltage, i.e. the energy curve will not show the exact value either.
You can find the energy curve in each review.


----------



## ShawnHu

HKJ said:


> The 3.6 volt is probably a good limit, it leaves about 0.3 volt for the driver.
> 
> I will not recommend xxxFire or other really cheap batteries, stay with the brand names. Try checking fastech for Sanyo prices.




HKJ, how come there are two Sanyo 2600 mah batteries? How do I find the better of the two?


----------



## HKJ

ShawnHu said:


> HKJ, how come there are two Sanyo 2600 mah batteries? How do I find the better of the two?



You can get UF18650FM (Sanyo 2600mAh) in protected or unprotected. For most purposes the protected is the way to go.

The older generation of the 2600mAh cell was called UF18650F, I do not know the difference between them (I have not found a FM datasheet yet).


----------



## rsilvers

I am having trouble just seeing what batteries are best. What are a few top choices in 14500s? How do lithium compare to using Enloops?


----------



## HKJ

rsilvers said:


> I am having trouble just seeing what batteries are best. What are a few top choices in 14500s? How do lithium compare to using Enloops?



Anything based on Sanyo UR14500.
The easiest way to compare batteries, is the comparator. What you want is a curve that is as high up as possible, as long time as possible, at the current you want to use the battery.


----------



## rsilvers

Thanks. Why not just sort the list by performance rather than in alphabetical order for each current choice?

Also - how does a Sanyo UR14500 compare to a Sanyo Enloop for a high current application like a light?


----------



## HKJ

rsilvers said:


> Thanks. Why not just sort the list by performance rather than in alphabetical order for each current choice?



That is a bit like asking what has the best performance, a truck or a sports car? It will depend on the application.
Sometimes you need a specific minimum voltage on the battery, at other times you don't.




rsilvers said:


> Also - how does a Sanyo UR14500 compare to a Sanyo Enloop for a high current application like a light?



Generally they are not that good at high current, one to two ampere is maximum, but due to the higher voltage, it will compare to a single eneloop delivering between 4 and 10 ampere.
The reason for the 10A is efficiency, A LiIon is delivering current at about the right voltage for leds, but a single eneloop need a boost converter and it will have a low efficiency at 1 to 1.2 volt input.


----------



## blgreene89

Someone please help me I know little to nothing about batteries other than to use them until they go completely out in a flashlight. I have a Klarus XT-11 flashlight model number XM-LU2 it has 3 modes on high you receive 600 lumens which is typically what I use. 

Currently I am using rcr123a Tenergy batteries and it eats them right up. I need to know what is a 18650 battery that will provide me with the 600 lumens of power that I need and I need the longest lasting one!

of course rechargeable and a charger!


Thanks,
Blake


----------



## RI Chevy

Welcome! :welcome: 

You can start here for general help. http://lygte-info.dk/

And check out http://batteryuniversity.com/

An 18650 Lithium Ion battery a battery that is 18mm in round and 650mm in length. An 18650 is basically the length of 2-CR123A's, but in one battery that has a max voltage of 4.2volts. It is the same as your RCR123A as far as voltage goes. I assume that you're using 2-RCR123A batteries in your Klarus host. That will give you a total of 8.4 Volts. By using 1-18650, you will get longer run times due to the higher mAh's in the battery. There are several makers of 18650 batteries. AW, Keepower, KalliesCustoms, Orbtronic, Panasonic, Sanyo, and many, many others. Please stay away from any batteries that end in "fire". For example, trustfire, and many others that end in fire. They are just not worth it. Do yourself a favor and get a brand name battery, as you will be much happier in the long run.


----------



## blgreene89

Thanks, I have decied to go with callie's kustoms 3400mah 18650 battery being I need longer run times. Right, you are correct I am using 2-RCR123A and it drains them like you've never seen.


----------



## RI Chevy

Keep us updated on your results using the CK 3400 please.


----------



## Spy

*EFEST question*

Firstly, I would like to say I am amazed at the time and dedication involved in testing these batteries. You have done an impressive job that I have found extremely useful.I have a quick question on the Black Efest 2600 mAh batteries you tested. You list 3 variations of this battery, LB, FT and BT. I assume FT is Flat Top and BT is Button Top but I cannot work out what LB stands for ?


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: EFEST question*

Welcome to the Forum! :welcome:


----------



## Changchung

Spy said:


> Firstly, I would like to say I am amazed at the time and dedication involved in testing these batteries. You have done an impressive job that I have found extremely useful.I have a quick question on the Black Efest 2600 mAh batteries you tested. You list 3 variations of this battery, LB, FT and BT. I assume FT is Flat Top and BT is Button Top but I cannot work out what LB stands for ?



Low Button?


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


----------



## Spy

*Re: EFEST question*



RI Chevy said:


> Welcome to the Forum! :welcome:



Thanks Chevy


----------



## Spy

Changchung said:


> Low Button?


Really:devil: Good try but what would a low button battery look like ?


----------



## cre8er

Great roundup... Highly interested in seing more batts added (like Sanyos)


----------



## 1c3d0g

Not trying to be a jerk, as I love the effort put into this thorough review, but is there a 2013 battery test?


----------



## HKJ

1c3d0g said:


> Not trying to be a jerk, as I love the effort put into this thorough review, but is there a 2013 battery test?



Yes and no. I did not finish this test in 2012, it has continued into 2013, but I did never update the title.


----------



## 1c3d0g

Oh, OK, thanks! It would be nice to source some 3400mah 18650 batteries from AW to see how they compare against the rivals...


----------



## HKJ

1c3d0g said:


> It would be nice to source some 3400mah 18650 batteries from AW to see how they compare against the rivals...



Yes, but I have been waiting for him to list them in his saled thread.


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## 1c3d0g

He has them for sale, if you P.M. him.


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## HKJ

1c3d0g said:


> He has them for sale, if you P.M. him.



I know.


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## Corvette6769

Just a quick post to report that I bought the Panasonic NCR18650B Protected 3400mAh (Green) from two different vendors for $15.83/pair and $16.21/pair (both including shipping) and tested them at 1A, 2A, and 3A with my West Mountain Radio Computerized Battery Analyzer (CBA III). My 3-amp test was down to 2.7 volts, while my 1 amp and 2 amp tests were set to cutoff at 2.8 volts. My results concur with those reported by HKJ. Averaging my tests of all four cells, my test results under a 1 amp load show *3288*mAh. When tested under a 2 amp load show *3211*mAh. When tested under a 3 amp load show *3062*mAh. By far the best 18650 cells I have ever tested.


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## Theron

I got a pair of those green ones above and a pair of Callie's Kustom 18650s. 

It will be interesting to see if there is any difference at all.


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## diemar

HI everyone im new here ad also a noob when it come to a this stuff 

I have this weiita saurus d1610 10w 800lms for mostly diving at night. it comes with a charger and a no name li-lion 2x 18650 3800mah 3.7v wrap in blue plastic.

and this is happen to be my first flahlight.

what batteries would you guys recommend for longest bright time???

found this panasonic orbrtonic 3400 ncr18650 on ebay for 37.91 2x. i dk know if they are the right ones?

thanks everyone.


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## RI Chevy

Welcome to the Forum! :welcome:

Stick to Panasonic NCR and Sanyo as a base cell. There are a few makers that "rebrand" them with their own name on them, but use the Panasonic as the base cell. There is lots of good reading here, and fellow member HKJ has tested many batteries. 
http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers UK.html


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## J32P

Corvette6769 said:


> Just a quick post to report I bought the Panasonic NCR18650B Protected 3400mAh (Green) from two different vendors for $15.83/pair and $16.21/pair (both including shipping) and tested them at 1A, 2A, and 3A with my West Mountain Radio Computerized Battery Analyzer (CBA III). My 3-amp test was down to 2.7 volts, while my 1 amp and 2 amp tests were set to cutoff at 2.8 volts. My results concur with those reported by HKJ. Averaging my tests of all four cells, my test results under a 1 amp load show *3288*mAh. When tested under a 2 amp load show *3211*mAh. When tested under a 3 amp load show *3062*mAh. By far the best 18650 cells I have ever tested.



Where did you buy them (link)? I want to try a pair but dont want to over pay or get fakes. 

Thanks


(New here)


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## Corvette6769

J32P said:


> Where did you buy them (link)? I want to try a pair but dont want to over pay or get fakes.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> (New here)



See my posts: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...asonic-18650-battery-only-15-83-free-shipping


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## J32P

Corvette6769 said:


> See my posts: httbread ww.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?293716-2-pack-Panasonic-18650-battery-only-15-83-free-shipping



The link provided in the first post of that thread no longer takes me to the deal mentioned in the first post and that site is very hard to browse on my phone. Have a direct link?


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## Corvette6769

J32P said:


> The link provided in the first post of that thread no longer takes me to the deal mentioned in the first post and that site is very hard to browse on my phone. Have a direct link?



As the last few posts by that dealer (who I would not buy from again for the reasons stated in my posts there) , they are no longer shipping, however last I knew, the other dealer I mentioned (FastTech) in my posts still is. Posting of links to dealers is strictly prohibited in this forum.


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## mward94

i just bought some panasonic NCR 18650B 3400 mah (green) batteries for my Nitecore P25. According to the wah charts i think this battery will be good for a high current light like the P25. i am fairly new to flashlights but not to electronics. Any comments? Thanks guys your forums are a big help.


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## gewain

Fasttech no longer ships li-on batteries by air. They have other methods but are so expensive as to be prohibitive. The price of batteries seems to have risen after the ban. I'm now looking to find somewhere as inexpensive as Fasttech and hopefully quicker shipping.



Corvette6769 said:


> As the last few posts by that dealer (who I would not buy from again for the reasons stated in my posts there) , they are no longer shipping, however last I knew, the other dealer I mentioned (FastTech) in my posts still is. Posting of links to dealers is strictly prohibited in this forum.


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## hankc

Have you tested the 18650 AW 3400 mah batteries?


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## RI Chevy

This link shows all of the AW's that HKJ has tested. http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/batteryIndexAW UK.html


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## HKJ

hankc said:


> Have you tested the 18650 AW 3400 mah batteries?



No, he has never put it on his official list of battery types he sells.


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## hankc

Thank you for your reply.
Can you recommend me the best protected betteries (best quality , best runtime and if possible with lower self discharge) for my Zebralight SC600W MkII L2 and the best for Fenix TK35?
I use it at the high and medium output and I change the battery when the high level is cutted off. So I need the best runtime before cut off.


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## HKJ

hankc said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> Can you recommend me the best protected betteries (best quality , best runtime and if possible with lower self discharge) for my Zebralight SC600W MkII L2 and the best for Fenix TK35?
> I use it at the high and medium output and I change the battery when the high level is cutted off. So I need the best runtime before cut off.



Without knowing the cutoff voltage I cannot specify the battery.

The best battery will probably be a LG D1 3000mAh that is charged in a 4.35 volt charger, but they can be a bit hard to find, especially if you want protected.
The safe choice is a 3400mAh battery.
You might get longer runtime at high with a 2600mAh battery, but that depends on the cutoff voltage.


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## hankc

For Zebralight the step down voltage is 3,3 V (I have put out the battery and measured the voltage immediately after step down).
I use the Flashlight at H1 level (1020 lumen) and at H2b (330 lumen) (a little more often at 330 lumen), rarely at M1 (65 lumen). The max drain at H1 level is about 3,5A, at H2 is about 0,65A 4,2Volt and 0,8A 3,4Volt and M1 0,11 A 4,2Volt (is it possible? I have used the tailcap method to measure).


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## HKJ

hankc said:


> For Zebralight the step down voltage is 3,3 V (I have put out the battery and measured the voltage immediately after step down).
> I use the Flashlight at H1 level (1020 lumen) and at H2b (330 lumen) (a little more often at 330 lumen), rarely at M1 (65 lumen). The drain at H1 is more than 3A (about 3,5), at H2 is about 0,65A 4,2Volt and 0,8A 3,4Volt and M1 0,11 A 4,2Volt (is it possible? I have used the tailcap method to measure).



Did you measure the voltage while the load was on the battery? If not the measurement is invalid, battery voltage will jump up immediately when the load is removed.


When you have the correct voltage and current, you just uses the battery comparator to find the best battery:
Select the current that is closest to the actual current (Do only checkmark one current, it makes it much easier to read the chart).
Find the battery that stays above the voltage for the longest time.

Note: Unprotected batteries will always score slightly better than protected batteries.


You can also use my summary page, where you check the "Discharge, capacity down to x.x volt", where you use the chart closest to the voltage you want and look for the longest bar of the correct color (yellow is 3A).
But this summary has not been updated for some time, I need to split the charts into smaller ones.


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## kpangy

Thank you HKJ, this and your website have been an absolute goldmine of info, I've learnt so much from it. All your hard work is very much appreciated.


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## hankc

HKJ said:


> Did you measure the voltage while the load was on the battery? If not the measurement is invalid, battery voltage will jump up immediately when the load is removed.



In what way? I have tryed with tailcap method in 2 different flashlight but dont work.


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## HKJ

hankc said:


> In what way? I have tryed with tailcap method in 2 different flashlight but dont work.



It is difficult to measure battery voltage correctly in a flashlight, you have to do some stuff with a thin wire.


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## hankc

Ok, thank you!


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## Tapis

Thanks for the reviews! Is there a reason why Olight batteries are not included in this comparison?


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## HKJ

Tapis said:


> Thanks for the reviews! Is there a reason why Olight batteries are not included in this comparison?



It is as simple as it can be: Olight has never sent me some and I have not bought any.
Also note that this tread is not updated, check my comparator on my website for a full list of tested 18650 batteries.


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## cvo

Can I trust that these cells are GTG and authentic?


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