# Nyogel; Scarce or What?!



## ronemca (Apr 23, 2008)

(Lurker here...)
Evidently, most flashlights are inadequately or improperly lubed at birth. This seems nearly universal, since the first thing everyone does upon receipt is pull the poor things apart and examine their innards...which is invariably followed by a detailed description of the inadequacies of their movement(s)!!

Okay - maybe it's not that bad, but you get my point.

Anyway, as usual in specialty forums, there is a product -- or sometimes a couple -- that is/are oft-mentioned as the ultimate solution to whatever the issue is with the item(s). In this forum, it is Nyogel.

Well...I have been searching for this bloody stuff for awhile, and I guess it is only secreted by a half-dozen Tibetan virgins once every 24 months, because BOY! is it RARE!

However, I've also discovered that -- surprise surprise -- it is used by non-flashaholics too!!  And -- even more interestingly -- they describe it as "di-electric" grease. This is immensely gratifying, because _I already have_ di-electric grease; I use it in my auto electric connections to guard against rust & corrosion!

So. By now, some of you will be saying "Yeah - so what? Everyone knows Nyogel is di-electric grease." Well, I wasn't sure. And I didn't want to be one of those arrogant fools that thinks he knows everything and just plow ahead and smear [automobile] di-electric grease on the threads of my brand new $100 flashlight...only to later learn that it was the wrong stuff...and that it will destroy my o-rings. Or eat my aluminum. Or dissolve the magical LED connectivity dust that makes these machines perform like they do. :tinfoil:

So. Should I wait for the virgins to do what they do? or is there another source for Nyogel that is NOT outta stock? Or can I just use the goop that I already have?

Many thanks!


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## prof (Apr 23, 2008)

I ordered a tube from lighthound yesterday...it ships today. That's www.lighthound.com, and don't forget the cpf discount!


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## Cydonia (Apr 23, 2008)

I just checked a few places and sure enough... sold out. I got a tube from here ... it will last years.


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## HoopleHead (Apr 23, 2008)

got mine at lighthound.


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## Cydonia (Apr 23, 2008)

Holy crap... just checked prices... lighthound wants $14.49 before CPF discount for 50g tube of Nyogel 760G - same thing was $7.95 before CPF discount at batterjunction. No wonder they are sold out  :eeksign:


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## ronemca (Apr 23, 2008)

^ ^ Yeah - that's the other aspect of material that can only be harvested from a tiny, forgotten island on the other side of the world...it's EXPENSIVE. However, that's not to say that it's stupid. If this exact product is wonderful, and there's really no substitute, okay; it's worth it to protect my multi-hundred buck investment. But if it's fairly basic goop...and/or it's artificially overpriced, hmm.

Oh - and I neglected to mention tht I'm on the other side of the ditch. So the "postage" is $11.00 for the $9 tube. <gulp>


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 23, 2008)

Nyogel is an industrial grease for high-temps and high-speed tools and aplications. We really don't need that stuff on flashlight o-rings. Any Silicone or R/C hobby grease will do the trick nicely.


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## AvroArrow (Apr 23, 2008)

ronemca,

Which Nyogel were you looking for? The 760G or the 779ZC? And wow, I didn't realize that they've gone up in price that much. I was lucky enough to buy some 760G off another CPF member in CPFMP that was selling some last year for $11 shipped for the 57g/2oz tube, which is like a lifetime supply for most flashaholics... unless you have 100+ lights. BTW, a little goes a long way with this stuff. I have a film canister full of the 779ZC stuff that I bought probably a couple years ago from another member and I've barely used maybe a lid full of the stuff to lube the o-ring on all my lights... I think I've lubed around 50 lights. 

BTW, just in case you didn't know, the 760G is recommended for the threads because it is thinner and designed for use on conductive surfaces, but the lube itself is not conductive. The 779ZC is recommended for the o-rings because it's thicker and provides a better water-tight seal than the 760G. Here are links to the PDF spec sheets for the 760G and 779ZC. But that's only if you're picky like me. Most guys just buy one or the other and use it on both the threads and o-rings. They're both safe for o-rings if that's what you're worried about.

I don't think I'm gonna use it all since I switched to nanolube for the threads on my lights so if you still can't find any, send me a PM and I'll see if I can find some small plastic containers and I'll squirt some outta that tube for ya. Just re-imburse me for shipping.  I've been looking at krytox 50/50 too, now that stuff is expensive ($20 for 5cc, $33 for 10cc shipped int'l) but the nanolube doesn't seem to smooth out the threads on my Ti PD-S like it did on my aluminum lights so I may get some krytox too.


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## ronemca (Apr 23, 2008)

I am looking for the 760G. I was also under the impression that the 779ZC was discontinued(?)

Thank you for the kind offer. Let me look around a bit more first, and meanwhile I wanna pursue the possibility of using something a little less...exotic.  This is not the first time I've come across some fancy-schmancy stuff that is supposedly so wonderful & exclusive...only to discover that it is really just [basic/normal] stuff in gold-plated packaging.


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## BabyDoc (Apr 24, 2008)

Personally, I am not that impressed with Nyogel, either the 779 or the 760 versions. It leaves this black junk in the threads, which really bothers me. What is it, anyway? Furthermore, the Nyogel seems to get sticky when cold. (Is this true of all lubes?). When, I first try to move the head on a cold light, one that hasn't been used for a day or 2, it seems to take a couple of twists to get the lubricant moving and the head freely turning. I am still looking for a better lubricant that is more cold friendly.
Anybody, know of one?


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## IcantC (Apr 24, 2008)

Is Nyogel what the SF lights come lubed with? I find it to be too thick to twist the tail caps with one hand. 

I use one of those nanolube or something like that oil.


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## ronemca (Apr 24, 2008)

Ahh! So the blush is off the rose, eh?! Interesting.

Well then, I am keenly interested in a recommendation for alternative goop. There's no sense me tearing up the 'net searching for this stuff if there's something as good or better at my local store!


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 24, 2008)

Sil-Glyde works just as well.


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## chmsam (Apr 24, 2008)

What I do for my lights is to clean the threads before I lube, use a clean finger to apply the lube, and that's it. Do that and that tube of lube should last you a very, very long time. How do I know? I have a small tin of pure silicone lube I bought several years ago. I've lubed many lights and have so far mostly just used the residual lube that was on the inside of the lid of the tin. I've left the amount in the tin itself virtually untouched. I figure that it's cheap stuff if you consider that it's in it for the long haul and that "a little dab'll do ya," as we used to say a very long time ago.


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## 65535 (Apr 24, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> It leaves this black junk in the threads, which really bothers me. What is it, anyway?



That would be Aluminum particles that are ground off the threads by the mating threads (goes both ways on both sets of threads) that oxidizes (hence the dark black color) and builds up in the grease looking ugly.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 25, 2008)

IcantC said:


> Is Nyogel what the SF lights come lubed with? I find it to be too thick to twist the tail caps with one hand.
> 
> I use one of those nanolube or something like that oil.


I don't think SF uses Nyogel in their lights, the feel and smell are very different.


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## AvidHiker (Apr 25, 2008)

My understanding is that Nyogel is a silica (ie, glass) thickened silicone grease, and is what Surefire uses on their aluminum threads (don't quote me on that, it may just be a rumor). Very fine amorphous silica (typically sub-micron particles) is commonly used as a thickening agent, but I sometimes wonder if that contributes to the blackening of the lube as it gets worked into the threads since even amorphous silica has reasonable hardness. Anyway, I don't believe this blackening causes any adverse effect on the lights function, except maybe the action becomes not so smooth after a lot of use and relubing is required.

There have been a TON of recent threads on lubrication, a simple search should turn up plenty of info regarding alternatives. A popular one is Nanolube, also Krytox 50/50 seems good especially for Ti (actually, teflon is pretty much mandatory for close fitting Ti threads to prevent galling).

Here is my favorite post from one of these threads:

Originally Posted by *Luminescent* 

 
_I have tried about a half dozen lubricants, and have found that different lights have different requirements._

_‘Twisty’ lights with bare aluminum threads (like the old Jetbeam C-LE v1.0 and v1.2), are the most critical. The wrong lubricant will not only make for rough operation, it can cause excessive thread wear leading to early failure. _


_*Here is a wrapup of some common lubricants and their applications:* _

_*Krytox *_
_Krytox is hideously expensive (a 2 oz tube of Loctite Krytox will set you back about 40 dollars), but it is exceptional at reducing galling in stainless steel and Titanium. It will also completely eliminate o-ring sticking. Not for use on bare aluminum threads or lightly anodized surfaces because it is abrasive to these surfaces and will lead to excessive wear. I use Krytox with my little L0D-Q4. The L0D has hard type III anodized threads which do not grind or wear with Krytox. The decision to go with Krytox over Nyogel 760G in the L0D was based on the need to eliminate o-ring sticking. My L0D has a very tight o-ring which was having sticking problems with every other lubricant that I tried. With Krytox, my L0D now has perfetly smooth one handed operation. BUT REMEMBER KRYTOX IS NOT FOR LIGHTS LIKE THE C-LE, WHICH HAVE BARE ALUMINUM THREADS. In the C-LE, it was NOT smooth at all, and eventually caused enough wear to lead to thread failure. _

_*Nyogel 760G*_
_A synthetic silicone based grease, but much smoother and lower wear than other silicone greases like silicone plumber's grease or Dow Molykote 111. Nyogel helps to minimize thread wear, even in soft alloys of bare aluminum, and shows only slight o-ring sticking with tight o-rings. It's a good choice for Twisty lights with bare threads like the Jetbeam C-LE. Overall Nyogel is a fantastic general purpose grease to have around, and you can get a large 2 oz tube from battery junction for just over $10 shipped (if you use the lowest cost USPS shipping option). _

_*Moble 1 Automotive Grease* _
_Moble 1 Automotive Grease works a LOT better than you might expect. This grease actually gives smoother operation than Nyogel 760G in my C-LE, and I have had no problems at all with o-ring sticking or deterioration (even after several months of use). Other general purpose Lithium Greases may also work, but some have expressed concerns that greases with volatile components might release vapors that could fog your flashlight's main lens. I haven't had any problems with this while using Mobil 1 Grease, but anyone who is concerned should stay with Nyogel 760G which is fairly close in performance and is known to have very low volatility._

_*Dow Molykote 111 or Generic Silicone Plumber's Grease*_
_Poor lubricant properties and heavy o-ring sticking (o-rings will almost weld if the light is left unused for a few weeks). Not Recommended. _

_*Tetra Lube G (or other PTFE or Teflon based grease)*_
_These greases are a fraction of the cost of Krytox, and work just as well at providing effective *lubrication*, but are not quite as effective at eliminating o-ring sticking. In my testing, these greases were slightly less abrasive to bare aluminum threads than Krytox, but I still would not recommended them for lights like the Jetbeam C-LE (or any other twisty lights which use bare aluminum threads)._


_So, again, the bottom line is that different greases work best for different applications in different lights. If you pressed me, and I had to recommend ONE general purpose flashlight grease, it would be Nyogel 760G. It's clear, clean, odorless, thick enough to stay put, gives smooth operation, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg._


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## AyeMayanor (Apr 25, 2008)

I know I'm not alone in using plumber's silicone grease. I bought mine at Lowe's for $3. The same stuff is sold at TruValue and Home Depot under different brands. Mine is called "Gunk". 

Been using the same jar for over a year now, and I service my lights every 3 months or sooner, depending on use. Never had a problem.


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## geek4christ (Apr 25, 2008)

To the OP: I had posted in an earlier thread about dielectric grease, saying that mine was working fine....however...since that time, I've noticed that it is just too stiff for thinner o-rings.

When unscrewing the bezel from my IncenDio, then trying to screw it back on, I've noticed that the o-ring pinches and I have to use my fingernail to force it back into its groove. I would definitely recommend you keep that in mind if deciding to use dielectric grease, because it doesn't seem to lube very well at all.

EDIT: never mind my question, AvidHiker basically answered it...thanks, man.


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## ronemca (Apr 25, 2008)

Zounds! I just knew this would be more complex than it seemed. :hairpull:

Clearly I need to stay on the learning curve for awhile longer, whilst continuing my search for alternatives!

Keep the discussion alive, gents! We'll all be the better for it. :thumbsup:


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## AvidHiker (Apr 26, 2008)

geek4christ said:


> To the OP: I had posted in an earlier thread about dielectric grease, saying that mine was working fine....however...since that time, I've noticed that it is just too stiff for thinner o-rings.
> 
> When unscrewing the bezel from my IncenDio, then trying to screw it back on, I've noticed that the o-ring pinches and I have to use my fingernail to force it back into its groove. I would definitely recommend you keep that in mind if deciding to use dielectric grease, because it doesn't seem to lube very well at all.
> 
> EDIT: never mind my question, AvidHiker basically answered it...thanks, man.


 
That's a good point, kind of highlights the importance of lube viscosity. One "dielectric grease" will not necessarily perform the same as another as viscosity seems (to me) to be very product/manufacturer-dependent. In many cases, a lubricant may have the same basic composition but a thickening additive will be included to varying degrees depending on the intended application. An extensive, confusing array of stuff is out there, so I just look for what manufacturers and heavy users recommend.

For what you describe, a high viscosity silicone lube (I've used Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease with pretty good results, which I think may be similar to one of the thicker Nyogels - just have to watch how much you use!) would probably be most appropriate for the o-ring itself. It should be sufficiently sticky to keep the o-ring seated when threading the bezel - IMO, a low-medium viscosity lube should not be used when seating o-rings (but can later be applied to the outer, exposed surface if desired).

Unfortunately, it seems to be very difficult to reach a concensus on this topic and this thread will likely die out since it seems to have been discussed to death in recent months without reaching much of a conclusion. I suppose a primary factor would be the subjective nature of how people gauge a lubricant's performance. A lot of it comes down to preference.


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## geek4christ (Apr 27, 2008)

AvidHiker said:


> For what you describe, a high viscosity silicone lube (I've used Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease with pretty good results, which I think may be similar to one of the thicker Nyogels - just have to watch how much you use!) would probably be most appropriate for the o-ring itself. It should be sufficiently sticky to keep the o-ring seated when threading the bezel - IMO, a low-medium viscosity lube should not be used when seating o-rings (but can later be applied to the outer, exposed surface if desired).



Good point. Heavy stuff in the groove, light stuff on the outside. I might just try that. Nanolube sounds very attractive as the slippery outside lube.



AvidHiker said:


> Unfortunately, it seems to be very difficult to reach a concensus on this topic and this thread will likely die out since it seems to have been discussed to death in recent months without reaching much of a conclusion. I suppose a primary factor would be the subjective nature of how people gauge a lubricant's performance. A lot of it comes down to preference.



After reading up, I think that Nyogel 760G is going to be worth a shot as a one-stop solution. Its description seems to be just about the right combination of thickness to keep the light waterproof while maintaining a reasonable twisting action.

...so many choices.


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## olrac (Apr 27, 2008)

I've been using Super Lube Synthetic Grease with good results. At Ace Hardware about $5 for 3oz.

http://www.super-lube.com/


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## bp044 (Apr 27, 2008)

geek4christ said:


> Good point. Heavy stuff in the groove, light stuff on the outside. I might just try that. Nanolube sounds very attractive as the slippery outside lu
> 
> 
> After reading up, I think that Nyogel 760G is going to be worth a shot as a one-stop solution. Its description seems to be just about the right combination of thickness to keep the light waterproof while maintaining a reasonable twisting action.
> ...


 Where do I buy Noygel ?


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## ronemca (Apr 28, 2008)

*Eye-Opening Post...*

'Wrote to TAI lubricants in response to the suggestion in a previous post. Here's what I got back:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Greetings,
Thank you for your interest in Nye's 760G. Unfortunately, this material is expensive. The price for a 100 gram tube is $56.95. We accept Visa or MasterCard.

If you have any other questions before ordering, please feel free to contact me.
Regards,
Tom Madden, President
TAI Lubricants
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Whoa.


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## bp044 (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: Eye-Opening Post...*



ronemca said:


> 'Wrote to TAI lubricants in response to the suggestion in a previous post. Here's what I got back:
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Greetings,
> Thank you for your interest in Nye's 760G. Unfortunately, this material is expensive. The price for a 100 gram tube is $56.95. We accept Visa or MasterCard.
> ...


I love the few lights I have , but the cost of this product is beyond reason. At my age I dont know if the grim reaper will grant me enough time to use the this large a quanity even if it was cheaperCan anyone reccomend a reasonable substitute ?


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## prof (Apr 28, 2008)

Check the first couple of posts. www.lighthound.com sells it in 3 different tube sizes. I believe they sell 10, 25, and 50 gram tubes, with prices beginning about $10. Another post in this same thread mentioned another source with lower prices.


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## m16a (Apr 28, 2008)

olrac said:


> I've been using Super Lube Synthetic Grease with good results. At Ace Hardware about $5 for 3oz.
> 
> http://www.super-lube.com/




Any problems at all with this stuff? I might mosey over to the local ace and buy some, for $5 that looks pretty good!

M16a


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## BabyDoc (Apr 29, 2008)

65535 said:


> That would be Aluminum particles that are ground off the threads by the mating threads (goes both ways on both sets of threads) that oxidizes (hence the dark black color) and builds up in the grease looking ugly.


 
I really don't see what is so great about Nyogel. This black junk that builds up in the threads with Nyogel is not Aluminum particles that are ground off the threads. If this is so it would be eating up my threads, not lubricating them. I clean the threads with Deoxit Red and other solvents before applying the Nyogel. Almost immediately, the Nyogel turns black. I have found the same thing to be true of Silicone plumbers grease. The other thing I don't like about Nyogel is it gets quite sticky in the threads, if the light sits unused for a day or so. This is of course more true with the thicker 779 lube if you have already tight O rings.


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## AvidHiker (May 22, 2008)

Not that this thread really needs to be revived, but I just felt compelled to agree with 65535. Now I feel the need to speculate a bit...

The fairly rapid color transition of Nyogel on aluminum threads - from clear gel to black paste - is almost certainly a result of abrading the aluminum. There simply is no other plausible source of contamination, imo. If you monitor it you will see that the color starts as an aluminum-like gray and gradually transitions to black, as more and more aluminum accumulates, until you end up with something that feels a good bit thicker/tackier than the original lube. My suspicion is that the thickening agent used in Nyogel is at least partially to blame. Typically (and I believe this to be the case with Nyogel) this is an ultrafine grade of amorphous fumed silica (we're talking at least sub-micron or even nanoparticles of silica, ie glass) which is actually harder than aluminum. These particles are so small that they are of no practical concern and do not contribute to abrasion of any significance, but I suspect they may be acquiring a coating of aluminum and thereby contributing to the color change (allowing an extremely small amount of abraded aluminum, in the form of a surface coating, to contribute far more color than it would on its own). Also remember that aluminum is a self-passivating material, meaning that bare metal rapidly forms an adherent oxide layer at the surface. Aluminum oxide is also quite a hard material (think anodizing) and in all likelihood is constantly being removed from the threads in addition to metallic aluminum - so I suspect it, too, may contribute to this color change. (nb, pure oxides of aluminum and silicon are typically transparent materials)

Or, maybe it's purely the worn aluminum to blame. 

Anyway, as far as I know this wearing occurs on a very small scale relative to the dimensions of a typical threaded part, so will not result in any noticable change in tolerance (at least not in this application).


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## bp044 (May 22, 2008)

AvidHiker said:


> Not that this thread really needs to be revived, but I just felt compelled to agree with 65535. Now I feel the need to speculate a bit...
> 
> The fairly rapid color transition of Nyogel on aluminum threads - from clear gel to black paste - is almost certainly a result of abrading the aluminum. There simply is no other plausible source of contamination, imo. If you monitor it you will see that the color starts as an aluminum-like gray and gradually transitions to black, as more and more aluminum accumulates, until you end up with something that feels a good bit thicker/tackier than the original lube. My suspicion is that the thickening agent used in Nyogel is at least partially to blame. Typically (and I believe this to be the case with Nyogel) this is an ultrafine grade of amorphous fumed silica (we're talking at least sub-micron or even nanoparticles of silica, ie glass) which is actually harder than aluminum. These particles are so small that they are of no practical concern and do not contribute to abrasion of any significance, but I suspect they may be acquiring a coating of aluminum and thereby contributing to the color change (allowing an extremely small amount of abraded aluminum, in the form of a surface coating, to contribute far more color than it would on its own). Also remember that aluminum is a self-passivating material, meaning that bare metal rapidly forms an adherent oxide layer at the surface. Aluminum oxide is also quite a hard material (think anodizing) and in all likelihood is constantly being removed from the threads in addition to metallic aluminum - so I suspect it, too, may contribute to this color change. (nb, pure oxides of aluminum and silicon are typically transparent materials)
> 
> ...



What product would you use instead ?


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## GarageBoy (May 24, 2008)

I lube the o-ring, my threads run dry. Attracts less crap/aluminum particles to the threads


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## Tekno_Cowboy (May 24, 2008)

I use Arctic Silver 5 for the threads on the head of my lights, providing that I'm not planning on switching out the lamp very often. I also use it in the threads between the emitter and the reflector, if it is threaded. It's made for filling the spaces between a cpu and heatsink, but I've found it to lower the temperature of the head of my flashlights significantly. I wouldn't use it on the tail threads of my lights(Aluminum Oxide and Boron Nitride are 2 of the hardest things known.), but for places that won't see frequent movement, it really helps.


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## DM51 (May 25, 2008)

We'll confine these interminably repetitive lube threads to one on the go at any one time, so I'm closing this one. Please continue here (if you really must).


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