# Are the bulbs used in HID spotlights dangerous? Mercury Vapour?



## jonman007 (Mar 13, 2006)

I heard something about there being two types of bulbs classified as HID and one of them contained mercury. I was just wondering if the bulbs everyone is using in the various HID lights are of this type and if so, isn't it dangerous if the bulb breaks?

John


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## Xzn (Mar 13, 2006)

HID's are generally Metal Halide, and do not contain mercury. It's the bulbs that are clearly called "Mercury Vapor" lights that contain mercury.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## yuandrew (Mar 13, 2006)

They do contain a small amount of mercury and argon or xenon gas. If you are thinking about a light that uses an automotive style HID bulb (Like headlights on a luxury vehicel;then yes, it will contain mercury.

I think a short arc lamp like in a Maxabeam only uses xenon.

The amount of mercury used is very small. But some states now require you to recycle or properly dispose of any bulb with mercury in it (both HID and flourescent lamps)


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## Xzn (Mar 13, 2006)

I think this mercury thing is somewhat blown out of proportion. I remember some of my older teachers saying as they were growing up, they could play with it in their hands and whatnot, and they're still here today.


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## bfg9000 (Mar 13, 2006)

Elemental mercury doesn't kill you, it makes you stupid. Especially little infants and the unborn, where the effects are known and quite permanent.

OTOH, organic mercury compounds can be incredibly toxic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Wetterhahn


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## winny (Mar 13, 2006)

I agree with bfg9000 here. Organic mercury is something you should avoid getting in touch with at all times. That's why you don't want to have a lot of mercury laying around because sooner or later it will react with things and form nastier compounds.

About the automotive xenon lamps, the automotive industry is also affected by RoHS so the newer xenon lamps does not contain mercury whereas the old ones does, although only a few milligrams per lamp.


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## dcarch8 (Mar 13, 2006)

One of the possible danger with Mercury vapor bulbs is that if the outter bulb is broken, you can be subjected to UV exposure.

dcarch8


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## jonman007 (Mar 13, 2006)

Thanks for the replies, yeah from my understanding mercury is a very dangerous substance and not something I want to risk coming into contact with. And the UV exposure issue is another which I heard about a while back a had since forgotten. But yet I feel I 'need' to buy a HID spotlight, so there is my dilemma. Is everyone concluding that these portable HID lights use the bulbs that contain mercury?


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## XeRay (Mar 13, 2006)

jonman007 said:


> Is everyone concluding that these portable HID lights use the bulbs that contain mercury?


 
Yes, that is a fact in VERY small quantities.


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## Vee3 (Mar 14, 2006)

HID lights can be VERY dangerous (When you drop a Costco HID light on your foot while wearing sandles. Don't ask me how I know).

If you have a silver filling in a tooth, it's probably got more mercury in it than any mercury vapor bulb and people seem to survive...


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## idleprocess (Mar 14, 2006)

I wouldn't worry too much about the trace quantities of mercury in a HID bulb - even with the possibility of a freak catastophic accident, the odds of coming into contact with it are approximately zero. I'm sure it's quite well contained within the inner arc chamber along with the other trace elements that emit light when the arc is ignited. I iamgine that mercury is fairly useful in HID lamps since it tends to have a dominant blue emission, evidenced by the "blue" tint of mercury-vapor lamps (which likely contain several orders of magnidude more mercury than HID lamps - probably milligrams at most).

As for the UV exposure - the UV-blocking outer glass "envelope" would need to fracture first; odds are pretty good that the bulb would cease to function if that occurred.

I think the paranoia about hazardous substances is blown out of proportion. Eliminating lead, mercury, heavy metals and the like from use in applications where they might come into routine contact with people or the environment is a good thing. Leaded gasoline, lead water pipes, mercury cells, paint, etc etc etc - they all came into daily contact with people and/or were eventually dumped into the environment... But totally eradicating mercury, lead, etc from electronics? What's the point? I can see mandating the safe disposal of such things, but given the small quantities and their typical isolation from day-to-day contact with humans and the environment... why? I think this paranoia deserves as much scorn as the mass hysteria over cell phones and their statisticly non-existent association with brain cancer.

I have a metallic filling from the early/mid-80s. I imagine it has some trace quantities of mercury. My only concern is that it will fall out someday. I'm sure that there are plenty of other factors that could explain any dulling of my intellect...


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## KevinL (Mar 14, 2006)

I'm more concerned about the alcohol, that makes me stupid after I've had quite a few drinks 

HIDs are dangerous for another reason - UV emissions. Even the small HIDs. Welch Allyn recommends shielding even for their small 10W bulbs (commonly found in the Maglite-to-HID mods that are popular around here).


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## Handlobraesing (Mar 14, 2006)

The only thing you need to watch for is, if the lens breaks and bare lamp is exposed, you have a UV hazard.


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## idleprocess (Mar 14, 2006)

KevinL said:


> HIDs are dangerous for another reason - UV emissions. Even the small HIDs. Welch Allyn recommends shielding even for their small 10W bulbs (commonly found in the Maglite-to-HID mods that are popular around here).



Ahem:


idleprocess said:


> As for the UV exposure - the UV-blocking outer glass "envelope" would need to fracture first; odds are pretty good that the bulb would cease to function if that occurred.



The outer glass envelope blocks UV. This is a standard feature of every HID bulb I've ever seen. Most HID bulbs will fail _by design_ if the outer envelope is compromised.


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## KevinL (Mar 15, 2006)

Hmmmmmm... must have read something different into that statement. I know the WA HID bulb has the shield, but I always thought it wasn't for UV protection. Thanks for clearing that up, I feel better about operating my HID now.


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## mattheww50 (Mar 15, 2006)

idleprocess said:


> I think the paranoia about hazardous substances is blown out of proportion. Eliminating lead, mercury, heavy metals and the like from use in applications where they might come into routine contact with people or the environment is a good thing. Leaded gasoline, lead water pipes, mercury cells, paint, etc etc etc - they all came into daily contact with people and/or were eventually dumped into the environment... But totally eradicating mercury, lead, etc from electronics? What's the point? I can see mandating the safe disposal of such things, but given the small quantities and their typical isolation from day-to-day contact with humans and the environment... why? I think this paranoia deserves as much scorn as the mass hysteria over cell phones and their statisticly non-existent association with brain cancer.
> 
> I have a metallic filling from the early/mid-80s. I imagine it has some trace quantities of mercury. My only concern is that it will fall out someday. I'm sure that there are plenty of other factors that could explain any dulling of my intellect...



The problem with lead in electronics isn't so much the electronics or when they end up in a land fill, but the fumes produced by the wave solder systems, and repair work. This is why many radiator repair shops have been closed. People who work in those envirornments often have substantially elevated lead levels in their blood.

The lead vapor from these activities went directly into the atmosphere. The virtual elimination of lead tetraethyl form gasoline has resulted in a marked reduction in lead levels in human blood. 

Sodium Vapor lamps (HPS) also rely on small amounts of mercury to light them. At room temperature, the vapor pressure of sodium is so low, that ignition is virtually impossible, so these lamps light initially as mercury vapor (which has a much higher vapor pressure than sodium at room temperature), and as the mercury vapor heats up the arc tube the balance of the mercury vaporizes, and the resulting heat from the discharger causes the sodium to start to vaporize, as it vaporizes, it heats and still more sodium is vaporized, the process continues until almost all of the sodium in the tube is vaporized, at which point the lamp is fully lit, and the portion of output that is mercury vapor has been reduced to insignificance.

The other posters are correct, the big hazard in most HID's come from large installation, and the fact than an envelope can shatter, and the lamp not fail (there are lamps made that are guaranteed to fail if the envelope failes). The result can be enormous UV output, but because of the setting, in places such as a high school gymnasium, with all the lights, that no one notices that the envelope on one or more lamps out of dozens has failed, and people start showing up with sunburn, burned cornea's, and other indications of extreme UV exposure.


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## mdocod (Mar 15, 2006)

I worked with a guy who had pretty bad mercury poisoning- not something to take lightly- but I doubt the quantities found in HID lamps would be seriously dangerous.

I seem to recall he said it was while trying to do some home-brew ore extraction or something like that. Sounded like he was trying to get gold out of ore. (I'm not sure if thet sounds right or not, it's been a few years since he tried to explain to me what happened in a slurred confused speech)

I guess it nearly killed him, caused severe brain damage.


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## mattheww50 (Mar 19, 2006)

mdocod said:


> I worked with a guy who had pretty bad mercury poisoning- not something to take lightly- but I doubt the quantities found in HID lamps would be seriously dangerous.
> 
> I seem to recall he said it was while trying to do some home-brew ore extraction or something like that. Sounded like he was trying to get gold out of ore. (I'm not sure if thet sounds right or not, it's been a few years since he tried to explain to me what happened in a slurred confused speech)
> 
> I guess it nearly killed him, caused severe brain damage.



Correct. You crush the ore into a fine powder, and then mix it with mercury, which dissolves the gold. Toss out the ore after it has been sitting in the mercury for a while, and then boil off the mercury, and what is left is the gold and silver. The problem is that the mercury fumes will get you if you aren't careful, and I don't think the EPA will let you vent mercury vapor this way. the term 'mad as a hatter' comes from a time when hats were made using mercury, which was boiled off. Long term exposure to the mercury vapor made then 'mad'...


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