# Torture test of Cree XR-E at Fish Tank for 2 Years



## eprom (Oct 21, 2009)

Hi Friends,

Time was October 2007. I have placed an Cree XR-E P4 Led to my fish tank. I drive it with 3xAMC7135 which means 1 Ampere. It served for 17500 hours (2 years 24 hours a day). Now it's luminance decrease to ~20% so I give a chance to a new R2 Led.

Most of the lost luminance caused from dirty dome. I think it still hold it's 40~50% lumen power. When we think about 1A drive level and high moisture level, it is very satisfying.

Here is the last photos.



















When i was cleaning the dome it came off. Yes, under the hood.






It's still working. 


Enjoy,
EpRoM


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## Swiftmove83 (Oct 21, 2009)

Awesome..thats crazy, thanks for the photos.


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## jar3ds (Oct 21, 2009)

wow :thumbsup:


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## [email protected] (Oct 21, 2009)

Great pics! The cheap driver survived too?


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## rizky_p (Oct 21, 2009)

A truly unique test and take time to finished.:twothumbs


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## bosscrab (Oct 22, 2009)

Was this the only LED on the tank? And what kind of tank and how was the performance? I'd like a 400W setup on my saltwater tank.


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## eprom (Oct 23, 2009)

Yes this was the only white LED on tank. My fish tank is a small hobby tank. It has 70cm hight and 30cmx40cm bottom. 



bosscrab said:


> Was this the only LED on the tank? And what kind of tank and how was the performance? I'd like a 400W setup on my saltwater tank.


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## fyrstormer (Oct 23, 2009)

Wow. That's definitely a torture test if I ever saw one. You should send that story to Cree.


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## Linger (Nov 2, 2009)

:thinking: Why are we so concerned about keeping them dry then? I understand we want low relative humidity before mounting / soldering them, but otherwise your little demo here says that it's OK for emiter to be exposed (even submerged). Interesting. I mean, I'm not buying an emiter 'for ever' they're just harder to install but longer lasting than light-bulbs.


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## saabluster (Nov 3, 2009)

Linger said:


> :thinking: Why are we so concerned about keeping them dry then? I understand we want low relative humidity before mounting / soldering them, but otherwise your little demo here says that it's OK for emiter to be exposed (even submerged). Interesting. I mean, I'm not buying an emiter 'for ever' they're just harder to install but longer lasting than light-bulbs.


I've tried in the past to get people to realize they wouldn't die from moisture. For some reason people have gotten it into their heads that if the dome pops off the phosphor will degrade and the LED will fail. Never mind that the moisture can get right past the gap in between the dome and ring. 

Eprom I wonder how long they would last if you coated them in a clear paint first. Clear finger nail polish may suffice.


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## csshih (Nov 3, 2009)

thanks for sharing those pictures!
great, grimy cree! :shudder:

cool pics!


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## eprom (Nov 3, 2009)

I will try your suggestion saabluster. I will coat the gaps between Dome-Ring and Ring-Base. 

Thanks to all,
EpRoM


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## mknewman (Nov 3, 2009)

Your fish are spoiled.


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## rizky_p (Nov 3, 2009)

flashaholic fish.


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## Linger (Nov 3, 2009)

eprom & saabluster: Thank-you. This has been an incredibly instructive thead. This has openned up a lot of new ideas for my own creations.


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## 1 what (Nov 4, 2009)

I'm impressed!
A new dimension in cruelty to LEDs.
Congratulations.


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## aljsk8 (Nov 4, 2009)

*was this under the surface, just touching or just close too?*

thanks for posting very interesting


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## eprom (Nov 4, 2009)

aljsk8 said:


> *was this under the surface, just touching or just close too?*
> 
> thanks for posting very interesting



Just too close... not under water.


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## Linger (Nov 4, 2009)

eprom said:


> Just too close... not under water.


Can you take a pic indicating location? that light is hella gungy for a surface light battered by splattering water.


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## Zero_Enigma (Nov 4, 2009)

Eprom,

Is this in a FRESHWATER or SALTWATER TANK?

How close to the water were the LED's approx?

Was there a air bubbler close to it for the water misting?


Thanks for the data sample on the LED torture test.


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## jasonck08 (Nov 4, 2009)

Cool. Good Cree XR-E. You've done well!


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## bstrickler (Nov 4, 2009)

saabluster said:


> I've tried in the past to get people to realize they wouldn't die from moisture. For some reason people have gotten it into their heads that if the dome pops off the phosphor will degrade and the LED will fail. Never mind that the moisture can get right past the gap in between the dome and ring.
> 
> Eprom I wonder how long they would last if you coated them in a clear paint first. Clear finger nail polish may suffice.




Couldn't you also use vaseline, or some other opaque gel thats not electrically conductive?

~Brian


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## Greg G (Nov 4, 2009)

Interesting!

The main thing that comes to mind is "Dang I'm glad to not be a fish living in that tank".


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## Th232 (Nov 4, 2009)

bstrickler said:


> Couldn't you also use vaseline, or some other opaque gel thats not electrically conductive?
> 
> ~Brian



I wouldn't use vaseline, the heat from running the LED at 1A would most likely cause it to drip off and possibly form a slick on the surface of the water.

BTW, did you mean transparent or translucent instead of opaque? Unless I'm mistaken, an opaque gel might defeat the purpose of having the LED there in the first place.:thinking:


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## saabluster (Nov 4, 2009)

Th232 said:


> I wouldn't use vaseline, the heat from running the LED at 1A would most likely cause it to drip off and possibly form a slick on the surface of the water.
> 
> BTW, did you mean transparent or translucent instead of opaque? Unless I'm mistaken, an opaque gel might defeat the purpose of having the LED there in the first place.:thinking:


Agreed. I think the best thing would be to encapsulate the whole thing in some clear silicone. The homedepot stuff may work ok if it's not too thick over the dome. That way when stuff built up on it it would be easy to clean as there is not many things that stick to silicone.


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## Linger (Nov 4, 2009)

maybe some norland optical? clear and heat tolerant, do an excellent job of reinforcing the material bonds.


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## eprom (Nov 5, 2009)

Hi Friends,

Some Answers,

1- Leds were placed 8cm away from water,
2- A 1000 liter/hour filter working and splash lots of water on leds,
3- a freshwater tank,







EpRoM


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## bstrickler (Nov 5, 2009)

Th232 said:


> I wouldn't use vaseline, the heat from running the LED at 1A would most likely cause it to drip off and possibly form a slick on the surface of the water.
> 
> BTW, did you mean transparent or translucent instead of opaque? Unless I'm mistaken, an opaque gel might defeat the purpose of having the LED there in the first place.:thinking:



I didn't think of it heating up and effectively turning it into liquid.

Yes, I meant transparent/translucent. I mix it up a lot.

~Brian


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## Linger (Nov 5, 2009)

How did you make the 1000 liter tank float in mid air
That is just hovering in the picture


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## jtr1962 (Nov 5, 2009)

1 what said:


> I'm impressed!
> A new dimension in cruelty to LEDs.
> Congratulations.


Perhaps the ASPCL (American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to LEDs) should read this thread. 

Anyway, yet more proof that LEDs are lot more robust than many people make them out to be.


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## kramer5150 (Nov 5, 2009)

Sweetness!!

thanks for sharing. I also am into fishkeeping. I have a 20 gallon freshwater tank with a marineland biowheel running 24-7. So the splashing and moisture evaporation certainly will soak anything under tank hood/cover.

I have a mix of simple, low maintenance goldfish and smaller tetras. FWIW, fish basically live in their own toilet, swimming around in their own poop and whatever micro-organisms the poop will feed. So depending on the breed of fish the amonia content of the ecosystem can be high enough to tarnish metals.

Thanks again for posting this, I am scoping out a ~1A XR-E lighting project for my tank. Its reassuring to know the XR-E is durable enough (even under worst case scenario) for the project.

:thumbsup:


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## J_C (Nov 6, 2009)

I wonder if ultrasonic agitation, possibly in a very mild acid solution might clean off LEDs with this kind of sediment on them, also wondering if application of some sort of grease before use would help with later cleaning, or a marine grade epoxy over all metal areas so an acid bath later wouldn't eat up the metal.


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## NYCaver (Nov 10, 2009)

Just out of curiosity. Why do you run your tank like 24x7?


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## eprom (Nov 11, 2009)

Because, fish-tank is at my showroom which is working 7/24.



NYCaver said:


> Just out of curiosity. Why do you run your tank like 24x7?


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## purduephotog (Feb 8, 2010)

I think you should contact CREE and offer to send them back their defective LED - in good jest 

Who knows, might net you a few XPGs...


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## bshanahan14rulz (Feb 9, 2010)

Or just send them pics and background info, brown-nose it a bit, and say that they can use this info for product promotion only if they send you some cool samples


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## eprom (Feb 9, 2010)

I am thinking to sent this LED to jtr1962 for his lumen test.

..


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## liveforphysics (Feb 13, 2010)

I've got some cree XR-E's that have been running for 3 years over a 310gal saltwater aquairum. I first put LED's over some aquariums when the P4 was the hottest bin I could buy. lol  They are still performing. 

My most recent setup has only had about 1 year of torture testing, but so far not a single LED problem, and they are constantly exposed to a saltwater mist 24-7.


http://glassbox-design.com/2009/part-1-lfps-xenon-and-led-reef-lighting-system/


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