# Automatic Knife Legality



## bruner (Jan 18, 2006)

This topic originated from a post I recently put up about unique knives. I don't know if it's been discussed here before, so I'll just put it out there...

It seems that automatic knives (aka switchblades) are legal in CA if they are under 2".

Every knife seller I visit that sells automatics usually requires printing out, signing and faxing back a legal document before they will sell to you. I live in PA and I don't believe that I meet the requirements. Those requirements being that you are involved with the military or an EMT or have the use of only one arm.

I'd love to own an automatic, but don't want to end up in jail over it.

Is there any way that, as a collector, I could legally purchase one and enjoy it in the privacey of my own home. Meaning, of course, that I would not cary it in public, it would never leave the house...

Thanks,
Dan


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## [email protected] (Jan 18, 2006)

Have a third party ship it to you


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## CLHC (Jan 18, 2006)

I don't know what the laws are there in Pennsylvania, but someone told me that even in this most restrictive state (Californ-I-A) one can own auto knives if the blades are under 2" as you've mentioned, and also as a collector. A CPF member I met at a recent get together mentioned that and he has quite a collection of MicroTechs. I have to do more thorough research for ownership of such in this new year of 2006 in California though.


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## carrot (Jan 18, 2006)

The Buck "Rush" knife uses something called "assisted opening," which kinda skirts around the "automatic" rule -- someone posted on CPF a month or two ago about it -- take a look. Pretty sweet knife if you ask me.


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## Flying Turtle (Jan 18, 2006)

I know you can get the "assisted opener" knives in West Virginia and also in North Carolina at WalMarts with no conditions. The true switchblades are probably a different matter.

Geoff


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## Topper (Jan 18, 2006)

bruner, I sent a PM that might help. I have bought several from him in the past.
Topper


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## justsomeguy (Jan 18, 2006)

Hi, have a look at the laws here....

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm

In most states it is legal to collect autos but not to carry them.

There are tons of dealers on the net that will sell to anybody.

Also, try this forum...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=688

Steve


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## cbxer55 (Jan 18, 2006)

I used to live in California, now Oklahoma. I bought many swithch-blades using the good old phone and a credit card. Now a days just use the internet. There are plenty of places that carry them and sell them. I have over 60 of them, all aquired whilst living in California.


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## MScottz (Jan 18, 2006)

> As used in this section "offensive
> weapon" means... any... dagger, knife, razor or cutting
> instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic
> way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or
> otherwise...


 I would take that to mean you can own and collect, but not carry in public.


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## justsomeguy (Jan 18, 2006)

To be absolutely certain about your State law the best idea is to go to the State Attorney Generals web site and read about it or email about it. There should be a section there talking about prohibited weapons, gun permits, etc.

In NC where I am and Texas where I grew up it is perfectly legal to own a switchblade and keep it at your residence or on land which you own or control, for example as a renter. It is a felony to carry the knife in public.

There is a Federal law from about 1957 which prohibits interstate transportation of auto knives by dealers or anyone sending it. The law is not strictly enforced and many dealers ignore it. Sort of like how old laws about spitting on the sidewalk or prohibiting interracial marriage are ignored.

Steve


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## MScottz (Jan 18, 2006)

I would be careful about asking an LEO (law enforcement officer) about legality, most don't understand knife laws any better than the genral public do. AS far as that goes, don't take anyones word for it here either, do what justsomeguy said and find out for sure, it's your butt on the line!


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## magic79 (Jan 19, 2006)

Most states prohibit carry of automatic knives. My state does. I bought an automatic on eBay, not knowing it was an automatic. The seller never asked and shipped it to my door. Oddly, 1 mile south of me (Oregon) allows ownership and carry of automatics.

As someone mentioned, assisted openers are legal, I BELIEVE, in every state. I can tell you from first hand experience, there is no practical difference in speed of opening.

Assisted openers are abundant, with Buck, Kershaw, SOG, and Camilus (among others) having several nice models. I would recommend the SOG and the Camilus.


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## justsomeguy (Jan 19, 2006)

Magic79, I agree with your comments.

OTOH, I have been carrying a Benchmade AFCk for 15 years, it will open one handed as quick as any switchblade, I am sure that is true of most Spyderco.

In the current world, the switchblade is for collectors. It is not worth a long jail sentence.

As a collectors item by people who know the law, that is OK.

Steve


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## Bravo25 (Jan 19, 2006)

with all of the opening assisted knives available, I don't know why we are still hung up on this. Legally speaking of course. Many knives can be opened as quick, and as easily as a switchblade. I have bought a couple of them through Ebay, but I don't carry them because of the leaglity. I have one that no cop could figure out how to open unless they were shown, but the law is still the law. Right, or wrong.


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## RAF_Groundcrew (Jan 19, 2006)

I am an everyday (military) user of Spyderco knives, generally a plain edge Military model at work, and the big thumb hole opens it as fast and reliably as I ever need. I do appreciate that there are some nice automatic knives out there, but in Britain where I live, there is currently a big media hype about carrying knives in public, although the exact law is unclear about what is and is not allowed in public. It is suggested that lock knives are not allowed (Spyderco have recently released a non-locking knife for such markets), but I would argue that the lock is a safety feature, and most attacks are carried out using common kitchen knives, not $100+ pocket knives.

I support heavy jail sentences for assaults with weapons, or indeed any assault, but the demonisation of a tool is just a way of focussing the blame on something, rahter than dealing with the root cause, and providing an effective deterrent.

As a footnote, I saw a program on evening TV in the UK yesterday, on a very popular chat show, and the argument proposed was for people to be allowed to carry 'something' for self defence (with an informal survey revealing that many people of good standing already do have 'something' to hand for such an event). 

I would welcome the licencing of self defence weapons in Britain, for people of established good character, if it were ever allowed. Nothing extreme, but a 21" ASP baton is much better than nothing if faced with a robber.
:whoopin:  :touche:


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## justsomeguy (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi RAF, I heard that some wish to outlaw sharp pointed kitchen knives in UK. The idea came about because most murders with a knife are done with kitchen knives. All kitchen knives should be made blunt at the tip. Anyone possessing a sharp pointed chefs knife will be a felon.

Next all 4,000 pound guided missiles will be outlawed. No more automobiles.

After that bricks and stones will be outlawed. Naturally gardens will be outlawed due to the fact that stones are sometimes found there.

Steve


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## revolvergeek (Jan 19, 2006)

Here is a link to the text of the federal law:

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/fedswitch.txt


Be very careful ordering them. Just because the federal law is not generally enforced does not mean that it can't be enforced, and it is pretty simple language so they isn't a lot of grey area if they choose to enforce it. Basically it gives your local Federal Attorney a free conviction on you if you get on his bad list. 

"Section 1242. Introduction, manufacture for introduction, transportation or distribution in interstate commerce; penalty 

Whoever knowingly introduces, or manufactures for introduction,
into interstate commerce, or transports or distributes in
interstate commerce, any switchblade knife, shall be fined not more
than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

That part would seem to go against the manufacturer/seller/shipper, not you as the buyer.

All the discussion of military/leo/collecter exemptions really does not reference the law. The original federal law seems to only allow for the interstate commerce of switchblades if the buyer only had one arm or if they knife was being bought to be issued to a military person, not bought by them privately. 

" Section 1244. Exceptions

(2) the manufacture, sale, transportation, distribution,
possession, or introduction into interstate commerce, of
switchblade knives pursuant to contract with the Armed Forces;
(3) the Armed Forces or any member or employee thereof acting
in the performance of his duty; or
(4) the possession, and transportation upon his person, of any
switchblade knife with a blade three inches or less in length by
any individual who has only one arm."


State laws vary a lot. Most states have they penal code/revised statutes online that can be searched. Generally if you search for concealed weapons you will find references to gravity knives and/or switchblades.

This is what I could find on Pennsylvania - 

"Pa. C.S.A. 18.908. Prohibited offensive
weapons. (a) Offense defined.--A person commits a
misdemeanor of the first degree if, except as authorized
by law, he makes, repairs, sells, or otherwise deals in,
uses, or possesses any offensive weapon. (b) Exception.--
*It is a defense under this section for the defendant to
prove by a preponderance of evidence that he possessed of
dealt with the weapon solely as a curio *or in a dramatic
performance, or that he possessed it briefly in
consequence of having found it or taken it from an
aggressor, or under circumstances similarly negativing any
intent or likelihood that the would be used unlawfully.
*(c) Definition.--As used in this section "offensive
weapon" means... any... dagger, knife, razor or cutting
instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic
way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or
otherwise..."*

This suggests that you would be fully cool under all laws if you bought it from somebody in PA and did not carry it, but YMMV. 

Below is a pretty good quick reference site for state laws, but it should not be considered gospel.

http://pw1.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm#S-W

Hope this helps.
Danny


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## wylde21 (Jan 19, 2006)

I agree with knowing what laws apply to shipping (across state lines, esp.), owning/possesing, and carriying any weapons for your particular area. This applies to knives, as well as other weapons.
Having said that, I am a minor level trader of edged weapons of all sorts, and have never had any issues with shipping or ordering items to be delivered across state lines. I've even done some international shipping (Europe, Canada, and Latin America)...and had no issues. Best is to list items at "collectables" (which is true...you won't get in trouble with that), get insurance and track them. VERY good packaging...neutral colors, clear adressing, professional looking, and good wrapping and sealing.
Happy purchasing!


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## lightlust (Jan 19, 2006)

I thought that this Emerson knife video was terribly nifty. The springless folding knife is shaped to pop open and lock when pulled from its custom sheath. To me, it looks just as fast as an automatic I am familiar with.

The Emerson knives with this "[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Patented Wave opening feature or Remote Pocket Opener" can open as they are pulled from a pocket or custom sheath.

These are a little out of my :mecry:budget range for the viscious, blade wrenching beatings I give some of my daily use knives, but they may interest others. *This appears to be a quite legal "automatic" knife whose mechanism remains unrestricted by existing legislation*.
[/font][/font][/font]


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## mccavazos (Jan 19, 2006)

I was very interested in an automatic knife for quite some time, but the legality issues have kept me from buying one. I have seen police men who have greatly frowned on even assited opening knives. So I bought a Benchmade 557. With a little practice you can open pretty much any knife like this, its automatic fast, but with no worry of legal issues! This is my knife, I haven't changed anything as it was from the factory.

http://ionicbonds.net/cpf/quickopen.mpg (3.18 MB)


So until I am an LEO, I guess I'll keep with regular knives!

Chris


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## cratz2 (Jan 19, 2006)

Here's my two cents: In Indiana, they are illegal to possess at all... even in your home. Constitutionality issues aside, as a gun owner, it's not worth it to me to risk the right to own firearms to have an auto knife to play with at home.

I know two law enforcement folks that I've talked to about auto knives, and one said that unless the person that was carrying the knife was up to no good (ie, LE was on the scene because of a fight or a threat etc...) that if he found a switchblade, he didn't really do anything with it other than offer a warning and would let the guy keep it. The other guy said he would confiscate it, but wouldn't do anything as far as issuing a citation or arresting the guy carrying it.

Different states obviously have different laws though. Still comes down to what the LEO would do if the issue comes up. I would ALWAYS assume that if it was illegal in your state, you would lose the knife at minimum.


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## magic79 (Jan 19, 2006)

RAF_Groundcrew said:


> Nothing extreme, but a 21" ASP baton is much better than nothing if faced with a robber.


 
Interesting that you mentioned that. In California, illegally carrying a concealed firearm is a misdemeanor (the first time), but carrying a baton (even by on off-duty police officer) is a felony!


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## bruner (Jan 19, 2006)

carrot,

The Buck Rush post was probably me:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=103532&highlight=buck+rush

I do love this knife. Since it's considered "assisted opening" it's legal in PA.

Strange though, it is practicaly an automatic...

Everyone,

Thanks for all the posts regarding this matter. Like most of you, I just don't see the point (no pun intended) in prohibiting automatics. Maybe back in the 50's it was just too scary for the general public to accept, but times have changed.

Thanks,
Dan


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## carrot (Jan 19, 2006)

bruner said:


> The Buck Rush post was probably me:
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=103532&highlight=buck+rush


Aha! I feel dumb now.


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## bruner (Jan 19, 2006)

Don't feel dumb. We're all winners here


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## MScottz (Jan 19, 2006)

The switchblades were originally banned because Hollywood made them look scary in the movies. Same way with silencers. They were originally intended to save hearing for people that liked to shoot a lot, but Hollywood convinced everyone that only the bad guys needed them, so they got banned.


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## highorder (Jan 16, 2007)

supressors never got banned; the have been regulated by the Federal government since NFA1934


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## guntotin_fool (Jan 16, 2007)

RAF, you have been brain washed my friend, as a free man, you should have the right to whatever firearm for self defense you wish. You had it for nearly a thousand years in your country, and you let it slip away.

As far as Legality of an automatic goes, call your AG office. Ask for someone in research and ask them to send you the statutes. Usually they will just email you a link. 

Minnesota allows collectors to own and collect, but not carry. There was a weak effort to amend the CCW law to allow them, but it has died off for the time being,

Some other states see nothing wrong with them, some states allow them under the heading of CCW if you have a permit, you can carry, Asking a AG official is a pretty standard thing, just tell them you saw an ad on the internet and wish to make sure you would not be violating state law to purchase such a knife, and then get clarification as to standards of use or carry.


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## karlthev (Jan 16, 2007)

Probably been said here earlier but, autos are illegal in many states. They are rather easily collected however. They should be collected as just that--collectibles. Keep 'em in the house, "use" them to show to close friends and, don't think they are to be used in the traditional sense. In 99% of the cases, "using" and auto as a knife will tend to gum up a tricky mechanism. They are for "show and tell". 



Karl


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## Pax et Lux (Jan 24, 2007)

justsomeguy said:


> Hi RAF, I heard that some wish to outlaw sharp pointed kitchen knives in UK. The idea came about because most murders with a knife are done with kitchen knives. All kitchen knives should be made blunt at the tip. Anyone possessing a sharp pointed chefs knife will be a felon.


 
The idea of prohibiting sharp-pointed kitchen knives in the UK comes from a media campaign started, I believe, by the Royal College of Surgeons – because ER admittance stats show more people get stabbed by this kind of blade than other pocket knives (including automatics!). Their aim was not to prohibit ownership of such everyday equipment, but ban future sales. Clearly, a law that prohibits something that’s in every home in the land is unenforceable.

At the risk of being political here, many police forces in England are releasing misleading figures about knife crime. In particular, they now regard something as a knife crime if the accused just happened to have a knife in his possession rather than they threatened/attacked someone with it (which is how most people would interpret a knife crime). Not of course that they are trying to hype up a problem so they can get more money from the government. . .


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