# FM1909 replacement?



## Stephen Wallace (Jul 20, 2011)

As some of you may be aware, FM is all out of FM1909 bulbs and currently has no intention to commission another batch of these (not enough call for them - shame).

I just wondered if anyone was aware of any bulbs with similar characteristics? I've had a look at the destructive bulb tests, but there isn't anything in those tests that's quite in the same category. 

Basically looking for something with a G4 bi-pin; brighter and higher wattage than a WA1185 (closest item I can identify, but the FM1909 is said to have a 50% higher lumen rating, given a high enough current); able to handle higher current than the WA1185 (OK, higher wattage covers that really); operating voltage lower than 12v, but able to run at at least 12.6V (so the bulb is overdriven). 

Any suggestions?

Thanks
Stephen


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## fivemega (Jul 20, 2011)

*Many people including myself tested different 6 volt bulb using 3 IMRs but result was instaflash. 

Closest choice is Hikari 5033 with 5 protected 18650 and soft start which will have similar brightness but in larger/heavier flashlight.
Some people may ask "why not 5 IMRs" ??
The answer is depends on total resistance of your host.*


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## Stephen Wallace (Jul 21, 2011)

FM,

Many thanks for your response. 

So as I have found so far, nothing common out there that will match the 1909 with only three IMRs behind it?  Damn.


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## hoongern (Jul 22, 2011)

I've been keeping the Hikari JC-5607 6V bulb as spares for my 1909 (Mentioned in quite a few different pages) - but as fivemega has mentioned, and as I can attest to - it can result in instaflash, especially if your host is low resistance. I blew 2 of them with my cells @ 4.16V. However, since I have a hobby charger, I fast charge up my IMR 26500s to 4.1V (1.4A charge, terminate at 0.3A), so it doesn't poof [so far, with my little amount of testing].

Of course, I still feel much safer using the 1909. I'm scared of the day it finally goes poof!


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## Nokoff (Jul 23, 2011)

I did a Poor Man's 1909 build using the Hikari bulb, very similar bulbs. Someone had posted once running three IMR with no soft start in a 2D with the Hikari, though I'd say those bulbs vary in quality more than the fm. I use an AW soft start and have no concerns running 3x26650. At 1.20 each I wouldn't worry anyway.

fyi the skirt on the Hikari is wider than the fm. I trim mine to fit in my fm bi focal reflector, and I love the beam and throw combo I get from it.


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## Stephen Wallace (Jul 23, 2011)

I too use the AW 3-level, soft start Mag driver. So with that, 3xIMR shouldn't be an issue with the JC-5607?


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## Nokoff (Jul 23, 2011)

a cold filament has the least resistance, therefore the draw on startup much exceeds that of once the filament is warm ..that's what blows bulbs, the cold "surge." Soft starting limits the draw during those first few crucial milliseconds. I'm paraphrasing from what Andrew (AW) had taught me, so I hope that is a good abbreviated explanation. 

I'm not using IMR right now, though I plan to get some to run in my Poor Man's 1909. They should work great, and give more current and brightness than li-ion like I'm using now.


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## Colonel Sanders (Jul 23, 2011)

*"As some of you may be aware, FM is all out of FM1909 bulbs and currently has no intention to commission another batch of these (not enough call for them - shame)."

OH NO! SAY IT AIN'T SO!!! :shakehead

*


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## Colonel Sanders (Jul 23, 2011)

Oh, and FiveMega, if you change your mind, put me down for a dozen. 

(Glad I at least stocked up on a few when I did.)


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## fivemega (Jul 23, 2011)

Colonel Sanders said:


> Oh, and FiveMega, if you change your mind, put me down for a dozen.



*If I change my mind or if you incand people change your mind?
I just don't see enough interest for custom made bulb and can't afford to stock them forever.
Minimum quantity of custom made bulb is 100 units and I doubt there are even 8 real incand guy left.*


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## Stephen Wallace (Jul 23, 2011)

Nokoff said:


> a cold filament has the least resistance, therefore the draw on startup much exceeds that of once the filament is warm ..that's what blows bulbs, the cold "surge." Soft starting limits the draw during those first few crucial milliseconds.


 
Yep, I fully agree with you as to the function of the soft start and how it helps, but thought with basically double the voltage - not to mention potentially higher wattage if IMRs are used - that using the JC-5067 might be asking a bit much even with the soft start.


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## hoongern (Jul 24, 2011)

Stephen Wallace said:


> Yep, I fully agree with you as to the function of the soft start and how it helps, but thought with basically double the voltage - not to mention potentially higher wattage if IMRs are used - that using the JC-5067 might be asking a bit much even with the soft start.



The great thing about the JC-5067 is that it's really cheap, so you can experiment around and see if it works. Are you using the stock tailspring? If you are, you might be fine since it has higher resistance than say, a copper tailcap mod. Otherwise, just use your bulb on a medium level for a minute or so to drain off the extra voltage, perhaps?


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## Stephen Wallace (Jul 24, 2011)

It is a stock spring, but it is cut down very short, so resistance would presumably be lower.


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## oldways (Jul 24, 2011)

I would buy several FM1909


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## Stephen Wallace (Jul 24, 2011)

Possibly worth opening another feeler thread to see if there is enough interest to make the manufacture of another batch of 100 viable?


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## Colonel Sanders (Jul 26, 2011)

Yep, I'm in. Where's the feeler!?!


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## Stephen Wallace (Jul 27, 2011)

fm - would you be willing to commission another batch if there were enough interest raised in a one off purchase? A group buy as it were?


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 27, 2011)

fivemega said:


> *If I change my mind or if you incand people change your mind?
> I just don't see enough interest for custom made bulb and can't afford to stock them forever.
> Minimum quantity of custom made bulb is 100 units and I dough there are even 8 real incand guy left.*


 
I dough, you dough, playdoh! 

There are many real incan guys/gals. 

We have formed an exclusive and secret organization to weed out the infidels. As such, *whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.*


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## Colonel Sanders (Jul 27, 2011)

I'm guessing it's no secret as to who's the ring leader of our secret incan society! 

(Lux, you are my hero.) :thumbsup:

Long live the FM1909!!!:rock:


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## KiwiMark (Jul 27, 2011)

fivemega said:


> *If I change my mind or if you incand people change your mind?
> I just don't see enough interest for custom made bulb and can't afford to stock them forever.
> Minimum quantity of custom made bulb is 100 units and I dough there are even 8 real incand guy left.*


 
I'd like to buy some, maybe 4 to 6 bulbs. I've got 3 Mag 2D ROPs I like and a 4th with an AW soft start switch that I really don't find all that great with the bulb I'm using - I'd like to convert it to a 3D and put a 1909 bulb in and run it from 3 x 32650 LiCo cells. I have the cells and the soft start switch and everything else except a good bulb - not that expensive to turn a 'meh' light into a 'WOW' light even using dearer bulbs.

I only need 1 bulb, but if these have to be ordered by a minimum of 100 bulbs then I'll happily buy a bulb and a few spares in one go.


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## Stephen Wallace (Jul 27, 2011)

Yep, if this were to be a one-off, last time deal, then stocking up on spares is the order of the day!


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 27, 2011)

I'm getting worried I only have 24 left.


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## Stephen Wallace (Jul 27, 2011)

^^^
:ironic: < Would this serve as a 'smug' smiley? 

I wish I had that many to hand..... :sigh:


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## Databyter (Jul 28, 2011)

The one in my light has lasted a supernatural amount of time.

Also, count me in as an incandescent guy, I go both ways though (only in regards to lights).


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## fivemega (Jul 30, 2011)

LuxLuthor said:


> There are many real incan guys/gals.


*And they will gladly pay $1 for each custom made FM1909 (shipping included)*


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 31, 2011)

fivemega said:


> *And they will gladly pay $1 for each custom made FM1909 (shipping included)*


 
Gotta pay for the quality 1909. Nothing like 'em. That's half the price of a SF M6 MN21 replacement bulb.

They can always pretend with Hikari's.


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## HotWire (Aug 1, 2011)

I'd buy a few!


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## lctorana (Aug 2, 2011)

LuxLuthor said:


> There are many real incan guys/gals.
> 
> We have formed an exclusive and secret organization to weed out the infidels. As such, *whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.*


Those who have reached the blissful state of Transcendental Incandescence do not need to post all the time, grasshopper.


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## Stephen Wallace (Aug 2, 2011)

Aah, but all transcendental considerations aside, we must post frequently, in order to appear numerous, and get more FM bulbs made! The squeaky wheel gets the oil.....

I'm afraid that at this point in my existence, I am still concerned with the accumulation of worldly goods.....


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## Nite (Aug 3, 2011)

I would buy 5 or 10 of these 1909 if the 100 are made. I missed out, I only have two spares for two lights. Was planning on buying and building another FM1909 host using the Mag heads and C cell FM bodies.


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## DM51 (Aug 4, 2011)

fivemega said:


> *I doubt there are even 8 real incand guy left.*


*Far* more than that!

I only have 1x 1909 left, and I would certainly like some more. If you start a feeler thread for these, please notify us here.


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## Jimed315 (Aug 4, 2011)

I would be in for a few.


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## mode-locker (Aug 6, 2011)

I would be interested in a few 1909 bulbs as well.


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## Not So Bright (Aug 6, 2011)

I'm in for a few 1909 bulbs also.


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## Colonel Sanders (Aug 24, 2011)

Sounds like about 35-40 bulbs are spoken for so far. If an actual feeler thread were started I bet you'd get to 100+.


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## wonderlite (Aug 24, 2011)

Nite said:


> I would buy 5 or 10 of these 1909 if the 100 are made. I missed out, I only have two spares for two lights. Was planning on buying and building another FM1909 host using the Mag heads and C cell FM bodies.


 
Hey, that`s great.

Everybody wants some until it is time to put the money out.

I commissioned a private run of FM (CL) 1794`s and axials and still have some left.

These widely popular, extraordinary, bulbs were clamored for and produced out of pocket, BY ME, as a private run.

Based upon the feelers and the amount of response, such as I am reading, in this tread, they were produced without payment up front.

If anyone needs some of these little guys, please give a holler!


FiveMega Custom Bulbs: FM-1794 & Axial! AW Custom Soft Start Switches **Part 2**
Started by WonderLite, 06-11-2011 09:12 PM

Many thanks. WONDERLITE


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## Colonel Sanders (Aug 25, 2011)

I would have no problem putting my money up front. 

I still have several left from last time around which are getting more valuable the longer these are out of production.


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## wonderlite (Aug 25, 2011)

Colonel Sanders said:


> I would have no problem putting my money up front.
> 
> I still have several left from last time around which are getting more valuable the longer these are out of production.


 
Colonel Sanders;

Understand. However, the $$ needed for future bulb project(s) are in this inventory of FM 1794 and axial bulbs
Dealing with the bulb manufacturers is not a pleasure and unreliable. Taking money on future goods is unpleasant because there is NO reliability on production dates/time and one ends up with a gaggle of people emailing incessantly, with righteous indignation, wanting to know, why, when where and how, because having prepaid gives one the right to do so.

Having said that, I will not revisit this quagmire, until the inventory is gone, if that ever happens.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 26, 2011)

wonderlite said:


> Colonel Sanders;
> 
> Understand. However, the $$ needed for future bulb project(s) are in this inventory of FM 1794 and axial bulbs
> Dealing with the bulb manufacturers is not a pleasure and unreliable. Taking money on future goods is unpleasant because there is NO reliability on production dates/time and one ends up with a gaggle of people emailing incessantly, with righteous indignation, wanting to know, why, when where and how, because having prepaid gives one the right to do so.
> ...



Totally understandable, wonderlite, and I agree it is a lot of hassle/risk for little benefit. I would NEVER recommend that anyone do a pre-payment project.

In any case, I wanted to again say thanks for how well you handled the whole thing, including those defective manufactured bulbs that had to be recalled and replaced through no fault of you or Nite. Please know that there are many of us who deeply appreciate what you both did and put at risk.

I'm sad to hear you still are stuck with unsold stock--especially knowing how well these bulbs perform. How many do you have left--and what are the prices now? 

_(Mods--if I am violating the Marketplace rules by asking, please feel free to delete/edit my questions--I just feel bad to see those two get stuck, given their noble efforts and contributions to the community)_


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## Stephen Wallace (Aug 26, 2011)

I'd be all too happy to buy the bulbs that were available - save lots of hassle all around, but unfortunately the 1794 is too low a voltage, and the axial is rated at just over a third the power (and hence presumably a considerably lower lumen output) than the FM1909. The 1909 just happens to be exactly what I need - basically a WA1185 replacement, that can be pushed harder (and without the tendency for the legs to fracture the envelope leading to the bulb exploding.....  ).


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## Colonel Sanders (Aug 26, 2011)

That definitely sounds like a lot of trouble for little to no reward, Wonderlite. I didn't know that and I'm sorry that worked out for you like that. 

Here's to better future endeavors. <cheers>


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## Billy Ram (Aug 28, 2011)

The problem with the sales on the FM1909 bulb is it's too robust. I have 4ea. FM09s I've been running for quite a while with out loosing the first bulb and only 1 of them has a soft start switch. One of my favorite bulbs for sure.
Billy


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## Colonel Sanders (Aug 28, 2011)

Billy, I agree. I love to push a bulb to it's absolute extreme and even 3 x IMR(any size) doesn't do it for the FM1909. 

So.....I'm thinking about running it on 4 x LiFePO4 cells with my AW soft start...I won't be happy until I  a couple! :devil:


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## fivemega (Aug 29, 2011)

Colonel Sanders said:


> I love to push a bulb to it's absolute extreme and even 3 x IMR(any size) doesn't do it for the FM1909.



*If your 3 IMR don't drive 1909 close to instaflash point, then you definitely have some problem and try to locate and identify it. Check batteries, switch, connectors and....
Above statement is for direct drive without soft start which means if your host has very very very low resistance and total voltage of 3 large IMR batteries are 12.8 volt, you will flash the bulb.
Please don't look to this chart unless you study how test has been done and understand that duplicating same or similar test is not practical in flashlight.*


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## KiwiMark (Aug 29, 2011)

Looking at the feeler thread the last time - if we could get 4 bulbs for $68 shipped anywhere in the world again I'm keen, happy to pre-pay as well.


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## Colonel Sanders (Aug 29, 2011)

Fivemega, (*and I would never want to argue with YOU about your bulb!*) I'm looking at it like this. 3 X IMR is about 12.6v when _under no load_ and hot off a charge. Now, put it under load for only a couple of minutes and it's probably more like 11.6v running which is not pushing the 1909 as hard as I would like to push it. The 1185, on the other hand, is at that point running at about 11.9v which is right at the bleeding edge of  and is therefore noticeable whiter. I have played with these combinations side by side enough to see that the 1909 just isn't as white on 3 x IMR for very long.

Here is some testing I did using 3 x 26500s and this bulb. This was done with a reworked stock switch, not the AW switch.

Resting voltage was 12.56 or 4.187v per cell.
Initial running voltage (at the moment of startup) was 12.1v.

Here is the running voltage drop over time.

*Min. Voltage* *Temp*
1 11.7
2 11.55
3 11.43 134
4 11.34
5 11.25 142
6 11.14
7 11.05 157
8 10.97

After only 2 minutes we're at 11.55v running and down to 11.25v after 5. Now granted, this was done with 26500s instead of 26650s but I don't think there would be much (if any) difference for the first few minutes.

So as we see, the batteries only supply 12v+ to the 1909 but for a moment. They can't supply this rate for long under a 5.5a load.

My 1909 host really only has the resistance of the AW switch plus the resistance of the batteries and their contacts. I use direct battery to copper in the tailcap....no spring. I have to be VERY careful with the 1185 bulbs in this host, running them on medium for a bit before going to high when the cells are charged to 4.2v. Even doing this I will occasionally murder an 1185. However, the 1909, in my experience, is no problem to go directly to high with this soft start switch.

So, what I'm thinking is that perhaps starting a set of 4 x LiFePO4 cells at just the right charge voltage would provide a very flat output as compared to using IMRs...almost like it's regulated to ~12.4v! Could it live if done carefully? What do you think?


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## fivemega (Nov 29, 2011)

*Now, more FM1909 custom bulbs are available here.*


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## Stephen Wallace (Nov 30, 2011)

FM - you are absolutely great! :huh:


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## HotWire (Dec 3, 2011)

My 1909 bulbs arrived today. I've got just the light to put them in! Thanks! I have 2 of your bulbs in other lights. I know the joy!


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## DM51 (Dec 3, 2011)

Very good to hear these are available again - payment sent!


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## Mr Happy (Dec 7, 2011)

I put one of these bulbs on the bench on a power supply and I should have worn sunglasses! Very bright and very white. Now I just need to assemble a suitable host and power supply for it.


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## Stephen Wallace (Dec 7, 2011)

Tri-bored MagD host from your favourite mod'er (unless you have the wherewithal to do that yourself - no lathe for me I'm afraid), AW incan driver, FM1909, FM battery holder, FM bi-focal reflector or deep reflector as per your personal taste (still not decided between these personaly), and 17650 IMRs from www.bestinone.net That's what I am currently using the FM1909 in. 

Considering an FM 3S 18650 MegalenniumB as an alternative for higher capacity cells and hence longer run times.


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## HotWire (Jan 6, 2012)

As of January 5, 2012 their are nine of us. Come on guys, you need the brilliant white light the 1909 brings. Get those shelf queens off of the shelf and buy some new 1909 bulbs for them. You will be pleased. Your friends will be astounded!


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## Stephen Wallace (Jan 6, 2012)

Yep, as one of the people who pushed for this new batch of bulbs, I feel rather guilty that few of the people who expressed an interest in them appear to have purchased them. I had hoped that wonderlite's concerns would be unfounded, but his prediction of the outcome has become all too true. 

I'll probably get a third pack myself later on, but I'd really like to see some more sold in the mean time, just to reward FM for his efforts on our behalf.


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## wonderlite (Jan 6, 2012)

Stephen Wallace said:


> Yep, as one of the people who pushed for this new batch of bulbs, I feel rather guilty that few of the people who expressed an interest in them appear to have purchased them. I had hoped that wonderlite's concerns would be unfounded, but his prediction of the outcome has become all too true.
> 
> I'll probably get a third pack myself later on, but I'd really like to see some more sold in the mean time, just to reward FM for his efforts on our behalf.



Stephen Wallace;
Yes, I am undaunted. Come and get the 1794 kings off the shelf, too, so the 1794 kings and 1909 queens can have a party LOL


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## Justin Case (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm running the 1909 in a 4D Mag using 5xIMR26500. The bulb is regulated at 11.8V by a JimmyM JM-PHD-D1 voltage regulator. Reflector is FM's 2.5" Throwmaster. IMO, a regulator is the way to go. Unfortunately, the JM-PHD-D1 is sold out and you'll have to wait for JimmyM to come out with Version 2.


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## DM51 (Jan 6, 2012)

HotWire said:


> As of January 5, 2012 their are nine of us. Come on guys, you need the brilliant white light the 1909 brings. Get those shelf queens off of the shelf and buy some new 1909 bulbs for them. You will be pleased. Your friends will be astounded!


Correct - nine of us so far, who have bought 13 packs (= 52 bulbs) between us.

There were many more posters here who said they wanted them and have not so far followed up on that. 

Come on, guys!


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## walterr839 (Aug 18, 2012)

are these still available?


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