# New Fenix Headband -- 440 lumens on your head!



## youreacrab (Nov 24, 2008)

Anyone see this yet? Dual Fenix on your head. Looks versitile, but could be heavy. Still don't know why you'd store batteries on your head.

http://www.fenixlight.com/viewnproduct.asp?id=38


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## greenLED (Nov 24, 2008)

forget the headband, me wants a Fenix headlamp!!


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## guiri (Nov 24, 2008)

Where do you get 440 lumens from?


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## WadeF (Nov 24, 2008)

guiri said:


> Where do you get 440 lumens from?


 
I guess a pair of 220 lumen lights.


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## Magnus1959 (Nov 24, 2008)

Don't know how convenient that would be.


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## guiri (Nov 24, 2008)

Well, that was my guess but I only saw ONE holder?


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## Haz (Nov 24, 2008)

quite versatile i must say!. Great if you are only carrying one light and would like dual use of it.


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## adirondackdestroyer (Nov 24, 2008)

Looks like a pretty nice design. I'm hoping it's reasonably priced.


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## lebox97 (Nov 24, 2008)

half way down the page they have a pic that looks like there are two lights on the headband (and no storage case for spare cells)?

doesn't seem to be very clear - light holder on one side and spare cells holder on other VS a light holder on each side with no spare cells?

we'll see what 7777's has to say and how much $.


EDIT: text at bottom of page does say "two flashlights holding on the mounts attached" 




guiri said:


> Well, that was my guess but I only saw ONE holder?


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## LED_Thrift (Nov 24, 2008)

I do see this as something that would be useful in a limited number of situations, but not as many as a regular headlamp. Looks like the "adjusts to any angle" feature would either be locked in one position and harder to adjust on the fly then a regular headlamp, or would change position when you are in motion and hit a bump in the road. 

Would love to see an actual headlamp from them.


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## NigelBond (Nov 24, 2008)

Looks like a good idea. Problem with LED headlamps are they usually aren't all that bright. Most are driven on 3 AAA or AA and have plastic bodies that aren't well heatsinked so they arnt driven very hard. This would be versatile and bright with no need to use a seperate type of battery.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Nov 24, 2008)

Fenix must be trying to redefine goofiness with that thing...


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## LED_Thrift (Nov 24, 2008)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Fenix must be trying to redefine goofiness with that thing...


 
Good one! :laughing:

I think the goofiness factor is what keeps a lot of people that would benefit from a headlamp from using one in the first place.


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## NigelBond (Nov 24, 2008)

I have a headlamp but I only use it when nobody will see me. It does feel rather goofy to be seen with one.


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## mdocod (Nov 24, 2008)

hmmm...

I've always questioned setups with the light being projected from the side of the head, I would think that on a shorter body light, the positioning would wind up being such that you would be blinded by spill light projecting onto a pair of glasses, and reflecting back.


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## streetmaster (Nov 24, 2008)

NigelBond said:


> I have a headlamp but I only use it when nobody will see me. It does feel rather goofy to be seen with one.


I too feel a little dorky when wearing a headlamp. But I find them very useful, and would love to see one from Fenix. The one I currently have is fairly bright, but the beam is too tightly focused for close-up work.



mdocod said:


> hmmm...
> 
> I've always questioned setups with the light being projected from the side of the head, I would think that on a shorter body light, the positioning would wind up being such that you would be blinded by spill light projecting onto a pair of glasses, and reflecting back.


I agree with you on that.


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 25, 2008)

mdocod said:


> hmmm...
> I've always questioned setups with the light being projected from the side of the head, I would think that on a shorter body light, the positioning would wind up being such that you would be blinded by spill light projecting onto a pair of glasses, and reflecting back.


 +2 
It happens and it sucks!


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## Henk_Lu (Nov 25, 2008)

At qualityflashlights.at ist costs 19.90 €, but you'll get it for 12.95 € if you buy a flashlight with it. So, everybody here would get it cheaper! 

I'm not very happy with carrying lamps on my head too. Though I don't care about anybody seeing me, I fear that when I see him or her, he or she wouldn't see anything at all for the next few seconds! Those things are great if you walk alone, if not, the risk of blinding somebody else is quite high.

What's more, you'd need lights that don't whine, as they come very close to your ears, which means no L1D Q5 and no L2D Q5 for me and the L2D is actually my outdoor activities light. Last but not least, we currently have temperatures at about 0 degrees celsius or lower here and it seems difficult to wear the headband correctly together with a bonnet (but not impossible).

Spare batteries on the head? Well, some people wear beercans on their head! 

My conclusion : Great idea for the one who walks alone, doesn't wear glasses and wants to have both hands free.


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## Art Vandelay (Nov 25, 2008)

I hope it does not have the same type of flashlight holder they use on the Fenix bike light holder. The bike light holder looks like it, with the orange plastic instead of a metal screw. The bike flashlight holder was pretty weak, unless I only put a one cell light in it. 

It looks heavy duty, but it does not look like it is designed to be attached to a helmet or hardhat.

I have not seen one of these headbands myself, so maybe it is a good product. In most cases, I am a big Fenix fan. I'll wait for a review.


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## woodrow (Nov 25, 2008)

I wonder if it could be modded to hold 2X Pelican 8060's.....


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## Gaffle (Nov 25, 2008)

Feel dorky about wearing a headlamp?? I wear mine all the time. Taking out the garbage for example.

You can feel dorky about wearing a headlamp as long as you don't have 3+ lights attached to your belt, and a cell phone, and a knife, etc.

To topic, a real headlamp would be very nice. Light on the side of your face probably would blind you with spill, if it was short, as someone already said.


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## Yucca Patrol (Nov 25, 2008)

greenLED said:


> forget the headband, me wants a Fenix headlamp!!



I have no need for this strap. Attaching two L2D's to the sides of my caving helmet only requires a couple of zip ties.

But it is encouraging that Fenix has made one step towards an actual headlamp by making a strap.


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## glenda17 (Nov 25, 2008)

Gaffle said:


> Taking out the garbage for example.
> 
> .


 

I do the same thing. Working the graveyard shift means I do a lot in the dark even when off work. My headlap now is a cheap plastic Cree from DX. I would really like a quality headlamp. I am not sure this fenix would be floody enough.


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## werdnawee (Nov 25, 2008)

Wouldn't this thing have heat issues if not being held in the hand?

Especially if on for more than 10 minutes?


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## Woods Walker (Nov 25, 2008)

I like it.


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## EngrPaul (Nov 25, 2008)

ALMOST as nice as the 1.21 gigawatt version.


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## Illum (Nov 25, 2008)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Fenix must be trying to redefine goofiness with that thing...


 
it depends on where you look at it from
say from this perspective not so much:nana:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2601283&postcount=258

Pics rehosted


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## DM51 (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm moving this to the Headlamp section.


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## Mr Floppy (Nov 25, 2008)

I've used the NiteIze head band and the having the light at the side at eye level, especially with the larger torches like the L2D Q5, it is a bit on the glarey side. The peripheral vision catches the spill and its annoying. The smaller torches like the E01 or L0D works a lot better. 

I find that the L2D works a lot better on top of the head. I should take a picture of my short peaked cap with two elastic loops sewn across the top. It carrys the L2D quite well but the cap moves a bit with the elastic. Ideally, an adjustable mount would look better but the short peaked cap is easily folded.


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## HeadCSO (Nov 25, 2008)

I like the idea. I keep a L1D in the car for emergencies, and this would be good to keep with it.


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## f22shift (Nov 25, 2008)

greenLED said:


> forget the headband, me wants a Fenix headlamp!!


 ditto

these already exist as an accessory


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## Crenshaw (Nov 25, 2008)

hmmmm

fenix needs to come up with the headlamp NOW...

or everone is going to get bored and order a zebralight. 

If that strap is the best offer, then im glad i bought the zebra light....

come on fenix!

Crenshaw


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## Woods Walker (Nov 25, 2008)

Mr Floppy said:


> I've used the NiteIze head band and the having the light at the side at eye level, especially with the larger torches like the L2D Q5, it is a bit on the glarey side. The peripheral vision catches the spill and its annoying. The smaller torches like the E01 or L0D works a lot better.
> 
> I find that the L2D works a lot better on top of the head. I should take a picture of my short peaked cap with two elastic loops sewn across the top. It carrys the L2D quite well but the cap moves a bit with the elastic. Ideally, an adjustable mount would look better but the short peaked cap is easily folded.


 

The big problem with the NiteIze headband is the position. For a headlamp you need the light pointed more down for camp use. I employ a Jakstrap with E01. To overcome the glare I adjust it over a bit. Glare is a big problem with most headbands and some headlamps too. The Jakstrap adjusted has very little glare. Never tried it my L2D Q5. Also it is made for very thin lights so not certain it would fit the AA size but may test this out.






Maybe the Fenix headband with a L2D Q5 on the side and an Aurora or Tikka plus taken off its band and added to the front of the Fenix headband for a flood light might be nice. A bit like a 180 lumen Apex at maybe the same weight. I wonder if Fenix didn't give up on the whole headlamp idea and the fenix headband is the by product of their efforts. Don't know but if the price is right I may just get the headband to play around with it.


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## chew socks (Nov 25, 2008)

Not fair....i had to figure out how to sew so i good make my own out of elastic bands from my backpack.


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## knoral (Nov 25, 2008)

It's a bit odd (goofy if you must) but overall it's really nice Headband. I would like to see who could MOD this headband to sometime spectacular. :twothumbs:candle::laughing:


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## jzmtl (Nov 25, 2008)

Seems kinda bulky, might as well carry a real headlight that works better. :shrug:



chew socks said:


> Not fair....i had to figure out how to sew so i good make my own out of elastic bands from my backpack.



Buy one so it's fair lol.


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## Woods Walker (Nov 25, 2008)

I got the Jakstrap from EMS for about 6 bucks. Not bad for something made in the USA not that there is much to it. Glare is a real problem with most headbands. Works good with the E01 if pushed over a bit. The E01 has more light than one would expect in the dank woods. I wonder if the flicker of the LOD type lights would be an issue with a headband setup?That is my next addition to this. May go with the Leatherman LOD type light do to the clicky. The twisty is ok for one mode but I don't think I would like to do a double twisty to get low on a LOD for a headlamps. For EDC I don't see a twisty being a problem for multi modes.


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## Woods Walker (Nov 25, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> Seems kinda bulky, might as well carry a real headlight that works better. :shrug:
> 
> 
> 
> Buy one so it's fair lol.


 
The runtime/lumen rates on the L2D Q5 are hard to beat. I don't think any headlamp using 2XAA (not a great number of them) or even 3-4xAA can beat it. I could be wrong however. I really would like to see Fenix take the L2D Q5 put 3 or 4 AA in a battery pack or just keep the 2xAA for a more UL headlamp. Remove the Q5 and toss in a warmer tint CREE. Oh man that would be nice. I find the L2D beam has a good mix of throw/flood but maybe a litle more flood for a headlamp couldn't hurt. Beyond the glare issue I kinda like the headband. Still that darn glare would make it a no go if it was a problem.


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## jzmtl (Nov 25, 2008)

My PT apex is plenty bright (and runs forever) for what I want in a headlamp so I don't know how useful the turbo on l2d is. Also l2d is more throwy than I'd like for headlamp as well.


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## PhotonBoy (Nov 26, 2008)

I rarely use a headlamp. If I need one in a pinch, I just clip my L0D Q4 to the peak of a ball cap.


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## jzmtl (Nov 26, 2008)

PhotonBoy said:


> I rarely use a headlamp. If I need one in a pinch, I just clip my L0D Q4 to the peak of a ball cap.



I used to think the same thing till I bought one. Then it's wow this thing is really handy, I wish I bought it earlier.


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## baterija (Nov 26, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> Still don't know why you'd store batteries on your head.


It does offer the option to balance the weight out a bit when you are only using one light.


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## Sarratt (Nov 26, 2008)

It appears that the battery holder can be replaced by another light holder ... balance

http://picasaweb.google.ca/lh/photo/BihqVvYIiHVNfSnbr7J1gw


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## ninjaboigt (Nov 26, 2008)

hmmm i think this could be a good idea, as a back up head lamp...

now rreading about the side glare...i might just pass this up....


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## squaat (Nov 26, 2008)

Interesting... I live in Vancouver and do a lot of night snow boarding. The main ski runs are lit, but the best snow is where no-one is, and that's usually where the lights aren't (Don't worry I'm not going out of bounds) 

So I've been thinking of a way to mount my L2D to my helmet. Unlike bike helmets, ski helmets don't have big vents on which to attach various straps. The niteize style headbands don't seem to hold the flashlight secure enough (needs to stay secure after a fall or a brush with a tree, as I'm not climbing back up a hill to retrieve a flashlight....okay I would but I wouldn't be happy)

I wonder how this would work mounted to a helmet. Is it big enough to fit to a helmet? Would it slip off easily? (many ski googles have a rubber lining on the inside of the head band to prevent this) 4Sevens?

(If it does work for a ski helmet I know a crap load of people who would buy one)


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## Yucca Patrol (Nov 26, 2008)

Drill 4 small holes on each side of your helmet and use a couple 5 cent zip ties to attach your flashlights. They will be much more secure this way.

Or do what some cavers do and use a bit of duct tape on helmets that do not have attachment points for headlamp bands.

Yes I know that drilling into a helmet is not recommended by any manufacturer, but chances are that your helmet already has holes drilled into it to attach straps, etc.


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## LED_Thrift (Nov 27, 2008)

+1 to what Yucca Patrol said. You can get by with very small holes for the zip ties, and the L2D's shape makes it work really well with zip ties.


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## jankj (Nov 27, 2008)

Sigh... Ever tried running with a jackstrap holding a 2AA? 

This thingy is probably not much of an improvement over the jackstrap. 

What would have been neat is something along these lines: 
- Take a fenix body (say, from a L1D), cut it short. 
- Connect a wire to the body. This will be the negative wire. 
- Connect / modify / construct something that provides a contact where the positive battery terminal used to be. 
- Attatch the body to a headband
- Add switch, wiring and battery compartment. 

Then you have a decent headlamp where the emiter head is missing. To be useful, you unscrew the head of your fenix LD1/LD2 and screw it on your headlamp. Done properly, it should be a simple, reliable and powerful headlamp. 

Fenix: Do THIS instead of re-inventing the jackstrap! 

I'm thinking about doing this myself, as replacement LD1 bodies are easily available. Just now I have little time for DIY activities, but perhaps some day...


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## Illum (Nov 27, 2008)

so far, the only thing that works correctly when running is the zebralite
I do not foresee any appreciable effort that will be put into the research and design of creating headlamps solely for the purpose of running as it does not offer a market big enough to warrant mass production:shakehead

However, that sounds like a good idea though


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## jankj (Nov 27, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> I do not foresee any appreciable effort that will be put into the research and design of creating headlamps solely for the purpose of running as it does not offer a market big enough to warrant mass production:shakehead



A headlamp suitable for running is suitable for a lot of tasks. A headlamp not suitable for running has still plenty of uses, but not those situations requiring a) a light that doesn't bounce too much during activity and/or b) bright enough to illuminate the next couple of seconds of movement. 

The phenix lights should be bright enough, and are though, reliable and not too expensive. I would very much like to see those qualities in a headlamp. It really should not be too hard to make one - but as you say, there must be sufficient market for it.


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## msxtr (Nov 28, 2008)

Hi, that seem a little uncomfortable...I prefer my DIY headlamp with (theorical) 500 lumens when I go to running by the night seem daylight 
















Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## Stromberg (Nov 29, 2008)

Very good idea but I think that serious heatsinking re-design is needed when most of the aluminium surface area and liquid cooling(hand..) is taken away.


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## jankj (Dec 1, 2008)

Stromberg said:


> Very good idea but I think that serious heatsinking re-design is needed when most of the aluminium surface area and liquid cooling(hand..) is taken away.



Really? The head is left untouched, with all its heat sink capabilities intact. The body retains the screw part PLUS as much as is needed to mount connections and mounting. Exactly how long the body part should be depends on your particular solution, skills and personal preferences. My guestimate is that it would be tough to make the body substantially shorter than 1/2". 

People living in a warmer climate may have other experiences, but I have never felt my fenix to be even luke warm in my hand. My guess is that most heat is lost through the head part of the flashlight, and that this is more than adequate for this kind of light. Really, it is not THAT powerful :shrug:


As for "liquid cooling" through the hand - I think the light would be VERY unpleasant to hold for this mechanism to be any effective...


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## Art Vandelay (Dec 1, 2008)

Heat is drawn away by the hand, which keeps the light from getting too hot. To see the difference turn your Fenix on turbo, and leave it on in candle mode on a table. After 30 min or so, touch the light. It will feel much hotter than it would have if you had been holding it.


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## jankj (Dec 1, 2008)

Art Vandelay said:


> Heat is drawn away by the hand, which keeps the light from getting too hot. To see the difference turn your Fenix on turbo, and leave it on in candle mode on a table. After 30 min or so, touch the light. It will feel much hotter than it would have if you had been holding it.



Really? Well, I live and learn... Untill I've done a test that tells me there actually is a temperature difference between a handheld and non-handheld light, I remain somewhat sceptical, but I am certainly open to the fact that you may very well be right. :tinfoil:
(Any links to someone who actually tested this?) 

The practical implication for my proposed fenix-mod should be small, at least the way I typically use my headlamps: 

- Adequate (i.e. small) amount of light for doing stuff, shuffling about (camping, unlit basement/attic). Actually, I want to use as little light as possible for the task at hand in order to not spoil everybody elses night vision. Net effect (and thermal output) is too low to be any problem. (Actually, fenix has TOO MUCH light in lowest mode, i.m.o). 

- Quick "bursts" of maximum light to illuminate large areas, look for things, then to low again. Short duration, negligeable heat buildup. 

- A LOT of light for running/skiing/cycling etc. I judge the fenix to have "just enough" light for those tasks. Under those circumstances, ambient airflow provides plenty of cooling.


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## Jagge (Dec 1, 2008)

jankj, I am think you have got it right. For example, my experience is running headlamps need a lot less heatsink/mass than a flashlight with a similar output. Head only is usually about enough. My DIY headlamps get hot really fast if I leave them on a table or hold them in my hand indoors without any airflow. But while running they never get even hand warm. It's unbelievable how little heetsink is enough for a P7 driven at 2.8A it it is a running headlamp.

But beam/hotspot of most Fenix flaslights may be too narrow/small for trail running, at least it is for me.


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## Stromberg (Dec 1, 2008)

Jagge said:


> My DIY headlamps get hot really fast if I leave them on a table or hold them in my hand indoors without any airflow.



Yes, flowing air is effective cooling "system" but headlamp must be also usable in stand still situations. In hand held lights necessary cooling is typically achieved via blood circulation(jankj, believe it or not  but in headlamps this must be done by some other means.

Jankj you are welcome to do your own experiments, but here is one of mine:
For some time ago I had GU10 based Cree replacement bulb named "Solarox". In about 15 minutes it got very warm and in 30 minutes it was uncomfortably hot to touch. At this point I used to cool down the bulb by just grabbing the heatsink for a while and the temperature decreased significally in just under minute. I confirmed the temperature drop with other hand so that possible skin temperature raise didn't matter.

Flashlight manufacturers also know this and that's why they usually warn about leaving light on max power unattended(= out of your hands).


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## Bearcat (Dec 1, 2008)

I find this very handy. I cut some Velcro circles a little smaller than a dime and glued them to my caps and to the back of some keychain lights. I either leave the lights on my caps or carry them in my pocket on my keychain. Not dorky at all. I'm working on a design to hold my E01.


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## Any Cal. (Dec 1, 2008)

I would say that the heat buildup issue is much ado over nothing. While some heatsink is required, many confuse heat on the outside of the light with heat at the led. If the outside of the light is hot, that means the light is shedding heat. It does not necessarily mean that the LED is too hot. That would depend on the efficiency of the LED/sink/body junctions. If the body is hot, great, that means that the LED is running cooler. 

I have had high power Cree drop-ins come on for a long time in a plastic G2 in my pocket, which is worst case scenario, and they have done fine. Consider the L0Ds that people ran 10440s in, which got too hot to hold, and didn't sustain damage. 

Really, no one knows whether their light is running too hot unless they can get a temperature at the LED. It is much like trying to ascertain engine operating temperature by the temperature inside a vehicle. The Fenix lights do not have a problem, the warning was a CYA for Fenix. Mostly, it is a consumer perception issue. Most LEDs I have heard of sustaining damage due to heat were those that had a defective heatsink junction, or none at all. A properly driven LED will remain properly cool, especially if it is on a proper heat sink.


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## Art Vandelay (Dec 1, 2008)

Most of the runtimes that you find at CPF are measured with a fan on the light. Selfbuilt does that, and the guy from FlashlightReviews.com did it as well. This is meant to make the measurements more like they would be if you were holding the light. 

The guy from Light-Reviews.com sometimes gives charts with and without the fan. He lists them as AC (active cooling), and PC (passive cooling).

Here are some examples:
http://www.light-reviews.com/jetbeam_jet-ii_pro/
http://www.light-reviews.com/jetbeam_jet-ii_ibs/
http://www.light-reviews.com/nitecore_ex10/


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## jankj (Dec 2, 2008)

Stromberg said:


> For some time ago I had GU10 based Cree replacement bulb named "Solarox". In about 15 minutes it got very warm and in 30 minutes it was uncomfortably hot to touch. At this point I used to cool down the bulb by just grabbing the heatsink for a while and the temperature decreased significally in just under minute. I confirmed the temperature drop with other hand so that possible skin temperature raise didn't matter.
> 
> Flashlight manufacturers also know this and that's why they usually warn about leaving light on max power unattended(= out of your hands).



For cooling via your hand to take place the surface temperature must be above your skin temperature. (If not, the light is cooling your hand, not the other way around). If this effect is to be any effective, the light should be quite warm to hold. If it doesn't feel warm to hold, your hand is not cooling it. As your experiment confirms, the hand is able to cool a WARM bulb/flashlight. 

Another aspect when holding the light is that the light will be MOVING. There are few circumstances where you will hold the light absolutely still when in your hand. Even though your level of activity may be low, the increase in airflow versus a light lying still on a table is substantial.


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## Stromberg (Dec 2, 2008)

jankj said:


> If it doesn't feel warm to hold, your hand is not cooling it. As your experiment confirms, the hand is able to cool a WARM bulb/flashlight.



Yes, I know this. My point being that hand is quite effective cooling element as long as the heat source exceeds the surface/blood temperature of the hand.

Any Cal.
"It does not necessarily mean that the LED is too hot"

Of course not, but if headlamp is used long times with only minor movement(for example electrician making connections in almost stand still situation) one can hardly say that heatsinking is fuss over nothing.


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## Jagge (Dec 2, 2008)

Stromberg said:


> if headlamp is used long times with only minor movement(for example electrician making connections in almost stand still situation) one can hardly say that heatsinking is fuss over nothing.



For me it's difficult to believe anyone would like to use high mode, 200+ lumens with tight spot in those situations. Most likely low mode is used and heatsink re-design would actually be fuss over nothing for this use case. But I get your point, I guess there may be some rare cases where someone really needs to use fenix style 200 lumen tight spot headlamp on high mode for long periods indoors without moving, but I am not sure is it a valid reason to say jankj's suggestion can't be done without a serious heatsink re-design.

Similar unscrew-the-head-of-your-fenix-and-screw-it-on-your-bike-handlebar would not be bad idea. More burning time for biking use with a bigger battery pack.


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## Stromberg (Dec 2, 2008)

Jagge said:


> For me it's difficult to believe anyone would like to use high mode, 200+ lumens with tight spot in those situations



Me too, but I was actually thinking my old Tikka XP with diffuser installed, because it really could use 200+ lumens..



Jagge said:


> but I am not sure is it a valid reason to say jankj's suggestion can't be done without a serious heatsink re-design.



I never said it can't be done - in fact I said it was very good idea. I said only my opinion that heatsinking re-design is(or can be) necessary. Then again I might be wrong in this case. We'll just have to wait and see when 200lm headlamps really break into the 60-80$ market.


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## Jagge (Dec 2, 2008)

So true, I completely forgot the duffuser use. Some may like to use high with diffuser, even leave it somewhere indoooes on high.

This is one of advantages diy people have. One can build a ideal custom lamp one purpose, like ultra lightweight headlamplamp without much heatsink for running below freezing temperatures. Commercial ones are always some kind of compromises.


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## Bobpuvel (Dec 12, 2008)

It may be really weird having this but AT LEAST they made it a three strap design! I will probably buy this just to see how it does... for 25 bucks! how could ya go wrong?(rhetorical question haha)


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