# Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots, lux readings, and runtimes



## Chao (Jul 10, 2007)

Got them today :twothumbs, new Cree L1 is just a little bit longer than E1L, the new TIR optics is very cool, produces round hot spot and useful sidespill. New E2L is great too, brighter than the old version and with wow, 14 hr runtime, I am so happy I bought both.

Size comparisons with new and old version









Lux readings at 1meter,
L1: Hi 3300 lux, low, 410 lux
E2L: 2380 lux

Beamshots at 5 meters











Old versions









Beamshots at 10 meters











Old versions








...7/12 updated..........................
L1 runtime-high level





...7/14 updated..........................
L1 runtime-low level





...7/15 updated..........................
E2L runtime





...7/28/ updated.........................

L1 low level beamshots compared with 2005 version

10m distance








3m distance


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## ernsanada (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Does the new E2L head fit on the older E2L? Will the new E2L light up on the old body?


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## parnass (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Great photos, Chao. Thanks.


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## EV_007 (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Nice comparison overview. Love the old vs. new images.


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## Chao (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



ernsanada said:


> Does the new E2L head fit on the older E2L? Will the new E2L light up on the old body?



Yes, they are interchangeable and work well, their E2L bodies look same.


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## ernsanada (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



Chao said:


> Yes, they are interchangeable and work well, their E2L bodies look same.




Thanks!

I think I may pick up one head.

Chop has had my KL1 head for over a year now. He has been MIA.

What is the exact name given to the new head on the E2L? Is it called a KL1 Cree?


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## Chao (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



ernsanada said:


> Thanks!
> 
> What is the exact name given to the new head on the E2L? Is it called a KL1 Cree?



My E2L head is KX2, I think the E1L head should be named KX1, I don't know if they are same?


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## ernsanada (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



Chao said:


> My E2L head is KX2, I think the E1L head should be named KX1, I don't know if they are same?



Thanks again!


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## MarNav1 (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

I think they are called KX1 now.


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## cryhavok (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Many thanks for being the first to produce these lux @ 1 meter readings! Any chance you know the drive current of the L1 on high? Or how much it pulls from the battery on high?


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## Chao (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



cryhavok said:


> Any chance you know the drive current of the L1 on high? Or how much it pulls from the battery on high?



I don't have meter to test the current consumption  maybe others get this light later will test it .


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## AFAustin (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Thanks, Chao. Great photos and new/old beamshot comparisons. I am particularly impressed with the amount of spill the L1 Cree seems to have. 

The big question for me is still whether the L1 Cree will accept an RCR123A, both as to size for its tube and as to suitability for its circuit. Any chance you know or have tried one?

Thanks again.


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## Chao (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



AFAustin said:


> The big question for me is still whether the L1 Cree will accept an RCR123A, both as to size for its tube and as to suitability for its circuit. Any chance you know or have tried one?
> 
> Thanks again.



Hi, I just tried my new AW R123A, but it can't fits this L1 body :thinking:.


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## ernsanada (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



Chao said:


> Hi, I just tried my new AW R123A, but it can't fits this L1 body :thinking:.



Can the E2L fit any kind of Lithium Rechargeable?


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## Chao (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



ernsanada said:


> Can the E2L fit any kind of Lithium Rechargeable?



14650-yes, and got same lux reading as 2xCR123A
2xAW R123A-yes, but I don't know if this is safe for this new E2L head
AW 17670-no, very tight


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## ernsanada (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



Chao said:


> 14650-yes, and got same lux reading as 2xCR123A
> 2xAW R123A-yes, but I don't know if this is safe for this new E2L head
> AW 17670-no, very tight




Thanks again!

I don't think I would try 2 RCR123's. May fry the Cree.


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## enLIGHTenment (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Is there any chance of an approximate runtime plot for the E2L? I'm really interested to see how long it spends in regulation.

edit: especially on a 14650 or 14670.


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## AFAustin (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



Chao said:


> Hi, I just tried my new AW R123A, but it can't fits this L1 body :thinking:.



Chao, thanks for trying. Would a slimmer unprotected RCR123A fit (in the L1 Cree)?


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## Chao (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



AFAustin said:


> Would a slimmer unprotected RCR123A fit (in the L1 Cree)?



I think it should be ok, my unprotected R123As all died and just throw them away last month, sorry, I don't have correct answer.


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## kelmo (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Wow!

I really like the more compact size of the L1.


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## enLIGHTenment (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Lux data added to the KX2/L1 FAQ. Thanks very much.


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## woodrow (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Wow! Thanks again for great beamshots and lux readings. I am also interested in how long the E2L stays in regulation, I could not find information on SF's site. Regardless, I think I will have to pick the E2L up. It will be nice to carry a Surefire again. 14 hours of burn time...thats pretty great!


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## Kiessling (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Great comparison pic there !!
Cool size of the New L1 ... and cool beam shape.
I need one.
Now. 
:devil:
bernie


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## monkeyboy (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Nice review. I've ordered the cree E2L and can't wait for it to arrive.

The beam profile was the thing I didn't like about the old E2L. It has a weird square hotspot and no sidespill. Judging by your pictures, the new optic looks just right. In terms of brightness, this may not be the ultimate WOW! light but I think the market is already saturated with such Cree/Seoul lights. 14 hours runtime is way more useful in the real world than 1-2hrs of high brightness IMO, and anyway, 45 lumens is more than bright enough for most situations. This is the first time that I am buying a light with the intention of running it on lithium primaries. I think it will be the ultimate travel/survival light.

BTW, Ive seen the E2L advertised as both 14hrs and 18hrs runtime. Is that 14hrs regulated + 4hrs dimishing?


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## Chao (Jul 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

L1 runtime graph added


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## T4R06 (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

very dissapointed on runtime! on some other thread, winchester notice this. you run on high at least a minute brightness will drop.


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## Chao (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



T4R06 said:


> winchester notice this. you run on high at least a minute brightness will drop.



Sorry to hear that, mine seems fine, if any of your new L1 has same problem, I found Winchester created a thread https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/169339, can report to there.


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## Dobbler (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



Chao said:


> L1 runtime graph added



What about runtime on low?


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## Chao (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



Dobbler said:


> What about runtime on low?



I also want to know the low level performance, but I did runtime test manually:sweat:, I think I will do E2L first and then L1 on low .


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## Dobbler (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



Chao said:


> I also want to know the low level performance, but I did runtime test manually:sweat:, I think I will do E2L first and then L1 on low .



So what was your runtime time ignoring output on low?


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## Gointothelight (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Does anyone know if the new E2L is ok with 9-volts like the old model was, I still have a Vital Gear 3xCR123 body I've been saving for it and it will obviously give a nice boost to the runtime... assuming it won't burn it out.


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## enLIGHTenment (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



Gointothelight said:


> Does anyone know if the new E2L is ok with 9-volts like the old model was,



Surefire has refused to release this information, presumably because it would help people determine if the light can be used with rechargables (2x li ion = 8.4v).


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## Gointothelight (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

I get the impression sometimes that Surefire makes too much money from the sale of primary batteries to really serve the best interests of its customers, or the environment for that matter, when it comes to rechargeables. Can't figure any other reason they size tubes and withhold information to prevent their use.


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## enLIGHTenment (Jul 14, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

<double post>


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## enLIGHTenment (Jul 14, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



Gointothelight said:


> I get the impression sometimes that Surefire makes too much money from the sale of primary batteries to really serve the best interests of its customers, or the environment for that matter, when it comes to rechargeables. Can't figure any other reason they size tubes and withhold information to prevent their use.



They also have an incentive to protect sales of their rechargeable lights. The typical beancounter will look at the SF product lineup and conclude that allowing rechargeables in the lesser LED lights would hurt sales of the highly overpriced (and therefore likely very high profit) L7. Any way you slice it, though, it's still greed. If SF wants more money they should make better products or market more effectively, not cripple their existing products.

What makes a premium flashlight is what you the end user can do with it. By restricting what end users can do with their new generation of lights, SF has forfeit its claim to 'premium' status and no longer has anything over SL, Inova and the other high end manufacturers.


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## JNewell (Jul 14, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

Perhaps it has to do with all the accidents and explosions related to using cheap primaries and hotrodding with rechargeables...I am not trying to make snotty remarks, just trying to be realistic about the environment for manufacturers today.



Gointothelight said:


> I get the impression sometimes that Surefire makes too much money from the sale of primary batteries to really serve the best interests of its customers, or the environment for that matter, when it comes to rechargeables. Can't figure any other reason they size tubes and withhold information to prevent their use.


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## Chao (Jul 14, 2007)

Just added runtime graph of L1 on low level, 50% at around 16h. Will do E2L later .


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## StinkyButler (Jul 15, 2007)

Sweet! Thanks so much for posting these runtime graphs. Looks like they align almost exactly to the Surefire specs. 

I wonder if the lumen ratings (10 & 65) match the advertised numbers like the runtimes (16 hrs & 1.5 hrs) do.


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## Chao (Jul 15, 2007)

E2L runtime updated, wow, flat regulation, but only regulated for 9 hours, I think the 14 hours runtime from specs means 9 hours high output and 5 hours additional useful output.


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## asdalton (Jul 16, 2007)

Chao said:


> E2L runtime updated, wow, flat regulation, but only regulated for 9 hours, I think the 14 hours runtime from specs means 9 hours high output and 5 hours additional useful output.



Nine hours of flat regulation is still way more that I would have expected, given that the current E2L is regulated for 2.5 hours. If the new KX2 head is optimized to run very efficiently on a 2-cell configuration, then that's almost enough to make up for Surefire breaking the versatility of the old KL1 head. :thinking:

I've got one of these coming this week, so I'll be able to judge for myself soon enough.


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## UWAK (Jul 16, 2007)

Can we run this new KX1 on L4 body and get the E2L runtimes? Or inversely put the new KX2 head on E1E body and get half runtimes than the 2 cell configuration?

Frids


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## enLIGHTenment (Jul 16, 2007)

UWAK said:


> Can we run this new KX1 on L4 body and get the E2L runtimes? Or inversely put the new KX2 head on E1E body and get half runtimes than the 2 cell configuration?



Won't work. Read the FAQ linked in my sig.


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## carrot (Jul 16, 2007)

9 hours of 100% output on the E2L is just perfect! It'll get duty as a bike and work light. It puts out plenty of light for pretty much anything I might need, too.


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## WildChild (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



ernsanada said:


> Thanks again!
> 
> I don't think I would try 2 RCR123's. May fry the Cree.



To run a Cree with 2 CR123A you need a bucks circuit. Right? If so, would it more fry the circuit if it cannot handle the extra voltage than the LED itself? It would be nice to know what is the maximum voltage the circuit can handle. But I'm not sure anyone want to sacrifice his new E2L for that.


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## woodrow (Jul 16, 2007)

Thanks again for the great work Chao! I am thrilled to see the great 9 hour regulation that the e2l provides. It is nice to see Surefire make a light that I really want to own again. 9 hours...wow.


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## monkeyboy (Jul 17, 2007)

Thanks for doing the E2L runtime plot, Chao, you've saved me a set of CR123a's :twothumbs


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## WildChild (Jul 17, 2007)

Chao, can you make a runtime graph on a 14670 cell?


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## Chao (Jul 17, 2007)

WildChild said:


> Chao, can you make a runtime graph on a 14670 cell?



I will try that


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## WildChild (Jul 17, 2007)

Chao said:


> I will try that



Thanks! This the last thing I'm waiting for before maybe getting the E2L. Can you also give the open battery voltage after it drops out of regulation?


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## Chao (Jul 18, 2007)

WildChild said:


> Chao, can you make a runtime graph on a 14670 cell?



This is the runtime I just finished, 140 minutes full regulation, 50% output at 235 minutes, I stopped the test at 4 hours.


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## WildChild (Jul 18, 2007)

Chao said:


> This is the runtime I just finished, 140 minutes full regulation, 50% output at 235 minutes, I stopped the test at 4 hours.



Did you measure the open voltage of the cell after the runtime test? I think it's not that bad for a 14670. 17670 would be better but it seems it's too tight! Are your 17670 protected or unprotected? If protected are too tight maybe unprotected are OK?


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## Chao (Jul 18, 2007)

WildChild said:


> Did you measure the open voltage of the cell after the runtime test? I think it's not that bad for a 14670. 17670 would be better but it seems it's too tight! Are your 17670 protected or unprotected? If protected are too tight maybe unprotected are OK?



I don't have meter to measure the open voltage of the battery . My protected 17670 is too tight to fit the body, unprotected is fine.


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## Chao (Jul 28, 2007)

Add L1 low level beamshots compared with 2005 version, after playing new L1 for 2 weeks, I think low level output is bright enough for me for general use:thumbsup:. 

10m distance








3m distance


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## JNewell (Jul 28, 2007)

I think that's right. The earlier L1s had an "ultra-low" level with the high being sort of general use. The new Cree version has a low that is general use and a high that is genuinely high. Personally, the compromise I like best is the Milky L1 I've got that has basically got an ultra low and a very high beam. 

Question for you on the (excellent and useful) beam shots: the 2005 version you've got there is the TIR optic version, correct?


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## Chao (Jul 28, 2007)

JNewell said:


> Question for you on the (excellent and useful) beam shots: the 2005 version you've got there is the TIR optic version, correct?



Yes, the 2005 version I have is using TIR optic.


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## tazambo (Aug 17, 2007)

I want an E2L with a 14670.
2 hours on such a small rechargeable, very nice

Excellent thread.

Regards
Dave


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## mx125 (Aug 24, 2007)

Just checking in on that L1 cree runtime plot. 

***Edit: Correction . . I was looking at low plot which isn't relavent. Still not flat on high, however, but not too bad***** 
Is that the status quo, or has that changed in newer shipments post the early model runtime "issues"? 

I would better from SF. If Fenix can do it completely clean/flat with all levels on their 1 cell crees, then why not SF? Sure the output probably work to the eye in practice . . .but pride of ownership makes we want the pointless clean regulation for the extra $$.


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## nanotech17 (Aug 26, 2007)

Chao,
To your eyes (without light meter) which is brighter between E1L & E2L?
Because i might want to get the E1L,is it worth it or should i get the E2L running it with 14670 instead of Cr123 in the E1L?


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## MarNav1 (Aug 26, 2007)

Just ordered a new L1 from OpticsHQ. Whoopee!


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## Chao (Aug 27, 2007)

nanotech17 said:


> Chao,
> To your eyes (without light meter) which is brighter between E1L & E2L?
> Because i might want to get the E1L,is it worth it or should i get the E2L running it with 14670 instead of Cr123 in the E1L?



Hi nano, I don't have E1L, but I think E2L should be brighter than E1L. if you like E1L size, I would think get a E2L, you can run KX2 with 1 R123A in E1L body, I heard the runtime is 1.5 (regulated)+4 hrs.


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## KingGlamis (Aug 27, 2007)

Am I the only one that noticed that the P1D CE won the beam shot test hands down? It may have a smaller hot spot, but the overall light output is way better than the other lights.

And I don't have a dog in this fight, as I don't own a SF or Fenix and don't plan to buy any.


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## WildChild (Aug 27, 2007)

KingGlamis said:


> Am I the only one that noticed that the P1D CE won the beam shot test hands down? It may have a smaller hot spot, but the overall light output is way better than the other lights.
> 
> And I don't have a dog in this fight, as I don't own a SF or Fenix and don't plan to buy any.



Sure it wins! Brighter spill, brighter hotspot but... Those SureFire CREE lights are of a different class! Much more throwers for outdoor use than lights with spill but yet, the spill is still much useful at close range! They also have a loooooong runtime! My E2L throws almost as much as my L2D on turbo but its runtime is 9h flat regulated compared to 2h on turbo for the L2D... Still, my L2D is a great general purpose light.


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## FlashSpyJ (Aug 27, 2007)

So...I havent been pushed over the edge yet, regardin me buying a L1 Cree. I now have the money for it, but lately I have felt bad about buying so many expensive lights... I would like to see some more beamshots outside at a greater distance.

The L1 Cree would replace my Fenix P2D. So how does it compare to that light? Is it better or worse, and by that I mean performance wise. not built quality and so on. Im a bit dissapointed with the P2D since its so slippery, and I have some problems with the low-Med-hig-sos mode. Seems like I have loose threads so the light shifts modes on its own sometimes. I like the L1 UI, always have low-high at the tip of your thumb, and that its a bit bigger than the P2D, and the knurling. BUT, is it really worth it? Output/runtime and beam??? And isnt it to big to EDC? Just realized the lenght. The A2 is very simular just a bit to big to EDC....
Im having my finger on the buy button, just not convinced quite yet...


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## nanotech17 (Aug 27, 2007)

Chao said:


> Hi nano, I don't have E1L, but I think E2L should be brighter than E1L. if you like E1L size, I would think get a E2L, you can run KX2 with 1 R123A in E1L body, I heard the runtime is 1.5 (regulated)+4 hrs.



Thanks Chao.
How about the 1x18650 battery tube that can fit the E2L head & tailcap?
Do you think those leef body from lighthound can fit such as these two -
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2608
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2702


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## Chao (Aug 27, 2007)

nanotech17 said:


> Thanks Chao.
> How about the 1x18650 battery tube that can fit the E2L head & tailcap?
> Do you think those leef body from lighthound can fit such as these two -
> http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2608
> http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2702



Hi nano, Lighthound sell either E-head C-tail (leef body you mentioned above)or E-head E-tail 18650 body (http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2876), I think they can fit KX2 very well, I am also thinking to get one :devil:

ok, summarize KX2 runtimes (regulated) I know with using different Li-on here:
R123A: 1.5h
14650: 2.5h 
17670: 5h (https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/173122)
18650: 9h


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## nanotech17 (Aug 28, 2007)

what is C tail


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## WildChild (Aug 28, 2007)

Chao said:


> Hi nano, Lighthound sell either E-head C-tail (leef body you mentioned above)or E-head E-tail 18650 body (http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2876), I think they can fit KX2 very well, I am also thinking to get one :devil:
> 
> ok, summarize KX2 runtimes (regulated) I know with using different Li-on here:
> R123A: 1.5h
> ...



Have you tested 2xRCR123A runtime?


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## Chao (Aug 28, 2007)

WildChild said:


> Have you tested 2xRCR123A runtime?



No, I haven't tested 2xRCR123A runtime, I am still not sure if this is safe to do.


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## WildChild (Aug 28, 2007)

Chao said:


> No, I haven't tested 2xRCR123A runtime, I am still not sure if this is safe to do.



 I'm really interested to know if the runtime is nice with this setup! I know someone tested his Cree E2L up to 9V (with 3 CR123A). He got approximately a flat 11h runtime. But I know you don't want to risk killing yours! On my side I cannot test since I don't have any RCR123A.


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## StinkyButler (Aug 28, 2007)

FlashSpyJ said:


> So...I havent been pushed over the edge yet, regardin me buying a L1 Cree. I now have the money for it, but lately I have felt bad about buying so many expensive lights... I would like to see some more beamshots outside at a greater distance.
> 
> The L1 Cree would replace my Fenix P2D. So how does it compare to that light? Is it better or worse, and by that I mean performance wise. not built quality and so on. Im a bit dissapointed with the P2D since its so slippery, and I have some problems with the low-Med-hig-sos mode. Seems like I have loose threads so the light shifts modes on its own sometimes. I like the L1 UI, always have low-high at the tip of your thumb, and that its a bit bigger than the P2D, and the knurling. BUT, is it really worth it? Output/runtime and beam??? And isnt it to big to EDC? Just realized the lenght. The A2 is very simular just a bit to big to EDC....
> Im having my finger on the buy button, just not convinced quite yet...


 
I ECD the L1 Cree now. Prior to that, I was EDC'ing the P2D which I absolutely loved. I was kinda disappointed with the P2D after a while, though, for a couple of reasons. First, it was somewhat slippery and difficult to grasp well enough to twist, especially if I had tightened it down to turbo pretty firmly. Second, every time I bumped the light while it was in my pocket, the UI would stop working properly. It would fail to switch between modes, only operate on low or turbo, etc. That concerned me as “medium” was the mode I used most often and if the light was even slightly jarred, I had to remove the battery before the modes would work again and allow me to access that level. 

The L1 has no such problems. Every time I press the button, the light comes on. I press harder and it gets brighter. It never fails, period. It’s nice knowing it’s always there and ready to do what I need it to when I need it to. Also, the L1's high mode is brighter than the P2D's high mode (P2D turbo is brighter than L1 high, but not by a whole lot).

Perhaps I have a flaky P2D (I’ve tried cleaning the threads and re-lubing to no avail), but I wouldn’t be surprised if others have experienced the same thing. With the L1, it’s not a concern.


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## FlashSpyJ (Aug 29, 2007)

StinkyButler, 

How do you carry the L1? Im intend to carry it in my front jeans pocket. Seemd like it would be to bulky?

I have some simular problems with my P2D, Its a really nice light but REALLY enoying that the modes isnt working properly sometimes. And it IS VERY slippery...

If the A2 would be a bit smaller I wouldn hesitate to EDC that one, I dont think I would have been looking for a new EDC light at all.
BUT the L1 is a little smaler and I can use the original beamdiffuser for it. But is that worth the money?
Wich I had a store here where I coudl check it out. I dont thing the stores here even know what Cree led is! :sigh:


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## softfeel (Aug 31, 2007)

The L1 fit in a normal front jeans pocket rather good but I had a pouch for it and liked that better. It can be found in a certain Swedish outdoor/military store, FlashSpyJ.

The L1 is much easier to operate than Fenix P2D because the L1 is less slippery due to better knurling, has a better tailcap and it's size. The P2D fits better in the pocket but the L1 is better in the hand. No doubt I would choose the Surefire for tactical use.

And yes, it is definitely worth the money.

If I still had mine I could have lend it to you but unfortunately I sold it to another Swedish member.


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## StinkyButler (Sep 4, 2007)

FlashSpyJ said:


> StinkyButler,
> 
> How do you carry the L1? Im intend to carry it in my front jeans pocket. Seemd like it would be to bulky?
> 
> I have some simular problems with my P2D, Its a really nice light but REALLY enoying that the modes isnt working properly sometimes. And it IS VERY slippery...


 
I carry it in my front pocket, both in my jeans on the weekends and in all my dress pants I wear to work during the week. It is a bit bulkier than the P2D, but it is still small enough to be unobtrusive. It never bothers me being in my pocket, and it's always right there when I need it. I very much appreciate the reliability it has to offer, also. I pretty much don't go anywhere without it, and I haven't looked at buying another light since (at least not yet, anyway).


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## LA OZ (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*

I ran my L1 Cree with LIFePO4 and it ran for 25min at Max Lumen. 
I ran my E2L Cree with LIFePO4 and it ran for 110min at Max Lumen
Measured voltage of the battery immediately was 2.2V.


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## 22hornet (Sep 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire Cree L1, E2L beamshots and lux readings*



enLIGHTenment said:


> Surefire has refused to release this information, presumably because it would help people determine if the light can be used with rechargables (2x li ion = 8.4v).



Hello,

This really turns me mad. Surefire is supposed to be a quality leader so they should give FULL INFORMATION about their lights.
(I am not an ecologist, but if it serves my purpose...)
With more and more waste it is only an ethical obligation of Surefire to make (or label) their lights as useable with rechargeable RCR123A cells.

Eventually they will have to, so they may as well start today with providing a table that lists their lights with all the specs and making their housings wider to accept RCR cells.

I would love to buy me the new E2L, but as long as I am not sure whether RCR123 (3.0v or 3.7v??) cells are OK, it is a definite "no buy".

Besides, Surefire should make an L2 that works on two AA cells. Fenix can do it...

Kind regards,
Joris


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## Size15's (Sep 9, 2007)

Joris,
CR123A batteries, made in America are standardised (standardized).
Rechargeable 'CR123A' style batteries are no a like-for-like direct replacement and there are many, many different types/versions/brands. Some of them can be extremely dangerous unless carefully used.

I suggest that until a direct CR123A replacement rechargeable battery is released by an American battery manufacturer (such as Duracell) that can only be recharged in a charger that can only be used to recharge that specific battery, the niche for aftermarket rechargeable batteries will remain just that.

There are too many risks for companies with consumer markets for them to overtly state that aftermarket batteries can be used.

Many (most?) of us think that SureFire should do this, or do that. Some of us consider that failure to comply with our orders will lead SureFire to ruin.
Some how SureFire's 'way' also seems to have worked whereas our 'ways' remain untested. Perhaps we should start our own flashlight companies to prove SureFire wrong? Perhaps there are other flashlight makers that are more easily influenced by the likes of us - and our energies are better focus towards having them bow to our demands?

Al


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## WildChild (Sep 10, 2007)

Size15's said:


> Joris,
> CR123A batteries, made in America are standardised (standardized).
> Rechargeable 'CR123A' style batteries are no a like-for-like direct replacement and there are many, many different types/versions/brands. Some of them can be extremely dangerous unless carefully used.
> 
> ...



I'm a rechargeable whore but I have to agree with you on this! Bare Li-Ion isn't ready for the general customers market.


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 17, 2007)

I'm running my KX2 head on an Aleph 2x123 body so I can use a Pila 600S fully protected cell. It's wonderfull for guilt free lumens! What a great light..........................


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## bestcounsel (Sep 23, 2007)

intersting stuff....i like the runtime of my old E2L and cant wait till SF offers the new cree Kl1 head by itself....ill purchase the head and keep the old head as a back up or build up another light and throw it in the truck..


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## Size15's (Sep 24, 2007)

bestcounsel said:


> intersting stuff....i like the runtime of my old E2L and cant wait till SF offers the new cree Kl1 head by itself....ill purchase the head and keep the old head as a back up or build up another light and throw it in the truck..


SureFire has discontinued the KL1.
It has been replaced by the KX1 for one-SF123A models (E1L), and the KX2 for two-SF123A models (E2L).

If you'd like a 'new cree head' for your old E2L then you'd want the KX2.


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## Dobbler (Sep 24, 2007)

Does the head on the new (cree) L1 have a model number/name?

Does anyone make a 1x18650 tube that is compatible with the new L1 head/tail cap?


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## Size15's (Sep 24, 2007)

Dobbler said:


> Does the head on the new (cree) L1 have a model number/name?


No, just like the previous versions of the L1, the current L1 (Cree) bezel is specifically designed and intended for the current L1's body.

Al


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## Dobbler (Sep 24, 2007)

Bummer.


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 24, 2007)

Mirage man's body 68.00 for sure and maybe PU's pineapple body 70.00 will go on E-series head+tail and hold 18650's!!!


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## mossyoak (Sep 27, 2007)

that E2L runtime plot is a tihng of beauty. im in love it think its gonna be my next light purchase.


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## WildChild (Sep 27, 2007)

mossyoak said:


> that E2L runtime plot is a tihng of beauty. im in love it think its gonna be my next light purchase.



It took me 1 month and half, with 2 camping week end, and a lot of play with it to go through the set of batteries that came with it! I EDC mine and now, the wait will be long for the L1 I just ordered yesterday!  Runtime on low, on 1 cell is really nice with this light.


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## mossyoak (Sep 27, 2007)

thats what id be using it for. i originally wanted a g2l but the runtime on the e2l is way for attractive, i already have the perfect EDC, this is going to be my cave/beat up light.


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## WildChild (Sep 27, 2007)

mossyoak said:


> thats what id be using it for. i originally wanted a g2l but the runtime on the e2l is way for attractive, i already have the perfect EDC, this is going to be my cave/beat up light.



I also got the G2L. Haven't tested the runtime but batteries should last for a long time since I keep it in my car for backup purpose! Another excellent light. E2L has the perfect brightness when in it's completely dark and a lot of throw with decent spill for close range use.


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## WildChild (Oct 11, 2007)

Does anyone know if AW LiFePO4 cells fit in the Cree L1? SF CR123A seems already to fit tight in it.

I finally got it too and I also love it!  It looks like a nice CR123 drainer. I took a good "dead" cell from the set that came with my E2L where 1 battery died before the other and the L1 is really bright on high and seems to have its standard brightess on low. I keep the cell that came with it for later.


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## skalomax (Nov 16, 2007)

Hi, Chao or anybody know how many mAs the LED in the Kx2 sees?

thanks


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## Chao (Nov 16, 2007)

skalomax said:


> Hi, Chao or anybody know how many mAs the LED in the Kx2 sees?
> 
> thanks



Hi skalomax, I didn't test that, the current draw information I know are :155 mA, from enLIGHTenment's site http://talisiorder.ca/sfxre.html
and 152 mA from LED museum.


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## skalomax (Nov 16, 2007)

Thanks Chao!


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 17, 2007)

Chao, would you please redo the Surefire Cree L1 runtime test. I am thinking that the runtime should be flatter in that there is only a modest drain from the battery of 660mA's or so. The mA's to led could be about 500mA's or less and the SF CR123 should be able to handle that easily at 660mA's drain.

Bill


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## Chao (Nov 17, 2007)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Chao, would you please redo the Surefire Cree L1 runtime test. I am thinking that the runtime should be flatter in that there is only a modest drain from the battery of 660mA's or so. The mA's to led could be about 500mA's or less and the SF CR123 should be able to handle that easily at 660mA's drain.
> 
> Bill



Hi bill, I can do that again for make sure, but I need buy new batteries first, however I looked the current consumption tested by LED museum is 953 mA.


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 17, 2007)

Hi Chao, please see this thread https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/174283

See posts 1, 9,27,42, and 57.

The thread is about using RCR123's in the L1 Cree, but five different posters noted that the drain from a primary CR123 ranged from 630-690mA's. I do not understand Craig's mA from battery readings unless he was using a fairly depleated CR123 that was pulling more mA's to L1 circuit to maintain vf of led.


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## Chao (Nov 17, 2007)

Thanks for the link, if I finish the runtime test, I will post the result.


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## skalomax (Nov 17, 2007)

Thanks Chao!

I received my Cree L1, immediately put It on my Milky L2 body with a DB500 driver, I love the beam pattern on the Kx series, great EDC now.


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## Chao (Nov 22, 2007)

I did the L1 runtime again, the result looks as same as my previous graph .


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 22, 2007)

Thanks Chao, really interesting, considering mild current drain from battery. The only other explanation is heat sinking, or lack of which could cause the gradual drop in output over time.

Bill


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## mx125 (Nov 23, 2007)

Hmm. That's surprising for Surefire. I own one and the it's perfect for me in it's indended use . . .but it's either not regulated or executed very badly.


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## AFAustin (Nov 23, 2007)

Just received an E2L Cree from a fellow CPFer. I missed my old E2L which I sold long ago, but I'm going to like this one even more. 

One nice surprise is that an (old style, blue) AW protected 17670 fits (snugly), and fires up the light just fine---no boring required. Did I happen to get an old style E2L body with the KX2 head, or do some of the new bodies accept a 17670? How do you tell an old style E2L body from a new style?

Thanks for any info.

Update: Did an informal runtime test on the E2L/17670 combo last night. At 5 hrs. I shut it down to go to bed! By then, there was some noticeable loss of output. I would guess that output was fairly flat for well over 4 hrs., though. I believe this is consistent with the results member cbubu obtained on a 17670, posted here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2132015

The E2L remained cool to the touch throughout, even after running long periods w/o being held. I am very pleased with this light.


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## prime77 (Nov 25, 2007)

Chao or any other E2L cree owner. I got a a E2L this weekend and after comparing it to my E1L cree it's much more yellow in tint. Is this normal?


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## Size15's (Nov 25, 2007)

prime77 said:


> Chao or any other E2L cree owner. I got a a E2L this weekend and after comparing it to my E1L cree it's much more yellow in tint. Is this normal?


It's normal for there to be variation in tint from LED to LED.
No point being dissatisfied though so if you are; I suggest you give SureFire a call to find out whether they can help.


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## WildChild (Nov 25, 2007)

prime77 said:


> Chao or any other E2L cree owner. I got a a E2L this weekend and after comparing it to my E1L cree it's much more yellow in tint. Is this normal?



My L1 (at least the one I sent for repair) was greenish but I liked the tint! I don't know if I'll get it back or if they sent me another one... It is right near my home but I won't bet it back before thuesday (at DHL depot).


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## woodrow (Dec 25, 2007)

I just had my 2nd chinese Q5 light have problems. (after 15min of use) I think I might have to trade it in for the e2L. Output will not be the same... but 9 hours regulated runtime and having a SF again... I think I will be happy.


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## WildChild (Dec 25, 2007)

woodrow said:


> I just had my 2nd chinese Q5 light have problems. (after 15min of use) I think I might have to trade it in for the e2L. Output will not be the same... but 9 hours regulated runtime and having a SF again... I think I will be happy.



If you want a nice EDC, also consider the L1... It has also a lot of excellent comments. I got both and I can tell you I love both but the L1 is smaller in pockets and more pleasant to use.


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## jzmtl (Dec 26, 2007)

L1 seems awfully big for a 1x123 cell light, what's taking up all the space?


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## Size15's (Dec 26, 2007)

jzmtl said:


> L1 seems awfully big for a 1x123 cell light, what's taking up all the space?


If its any smaller it's not comfortable for me to hold and use. Also, it's got a Helium pellet inside to make it lighter so room is taken up for that.


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## WildChild (Dec 26, 2007)

Size15's said:


> If its any smaller it's not comfortable for me to hold and use. Also, it's got a Helium pellet inside to make it lighter so room is taken up for that.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Really! I think like Size15. I EDC it in my pocket using the pocket clip and it's small enough so I don't feel it but when you hold it, it has the exact size of the hand with the push button available for the thumb and the lens at the other end. What is making it big is the circuit that isn't in the head but in the body and the tailcap the way it has been made, which is perfect.  Remember, with the Cree edition, they shortened it. Size15 already posted some pictures about the circuit showing the way it's made in the A2 and in the L2. The L1 was like the L2 (rectangle circuit board) but is now like the A2 (round circuit board).


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## Ty_Bower (Jan 23, 2008)

Does anybody else have any 1 meter lux readings for their E2L Cree or KX2 head? I just got a KX2, and it is showing around 1600 lux at 1 meter. I expect there is variation between everybody's lux meter, but my numbers are way lower than what Chao is seeing.


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## Chao (Jan 24, 2008)

Ty_Bower said:


> Does anybody else have any 1 meter lux readings for their E2L Cree or KX2 head? I just got a KX2, and it is showing around 1600 lux at 1 meter. I expect there is variation between everybody's lux meter, but my numbers are way lower than what Chao is seeing.



ernsanada had the reading https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/183029
he used RCR123A, but I think he got the numbers after running for 2 min, that should be closed to primary cells.

My second KX2 head is brighter than the first one, I got 2600 lux at 1 meter.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 24, 2008)

Chao said:


> ernsanada had the reading https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/183029
> he used RCR123A, but I think he got the numbers after running for 2 min, that should be closed to primary cells.
> 
> My second KX2 head is brighter than the first one, I got 2600 lux at 1
> meter.



Lux with 2X RCR123 will be be same as two CR123's, and ernsanada got 2700+ lux. Lux is same because the KX2 is meant to run with 2-3 CR123's and regulate the same with at 6+ volts and 9+ volts. 

Bill


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## WildChild (Jan 25, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Lux with 2X RCR123 will be be same as two CR123's, and ernsanada got 2700+ lux. Lux is same because the KX2 is meant to run with 2-3 CR123's and regulate the same with at 6+ volts and 9+ volts.
> 
> Bill



Are you sure? I remember someone mentionned his KX2 went dimmer after he ran it on RCR123...


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 25, 2008)

WildChild said:


> Are you sure? I remember someone mentionned his KX2 went dimmer after he ran it on RCR123...



KX1 had problems with one individual running on one RCR123. I will correct my "KX2 was meant to run on 2-3 CR123's" Surefire does not say this, that 3 cells are ok. Reviewers have found that it has a buck regulator and runs in regulation on three CR123, or 2 RCR123's. 

Bill


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## WildChild (Jan 25, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> KX1 had problems with one individual running on one RCR123. I will correct my "KX2 was meant to run on 2-3 CR123's" Surefire does not say this, that 3 cells are ok. Reviewers have found that it has a buck regulator and runs in regulation on three CR123, or 2 RCR123's.
> 
> Bill



Oh yes! I remember the run on 3 CR123, so 2 RCR123 should be safe! Anyone else tested 2 RCR123 or have been running them for a while? What kind of runtime do you get? Do they fit tight or they fit correctly?


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## Ty_Bower (Jan 25, 2008)

I figured out what is going on. I'm running this KX2 off a single 18650 li-ion cell. As others have suggested, it appears the KX2 has a buck driver. No boost. As soon as cell voltage drops too low, the driver is no longer in regulation. Unfortunately, this happens a lot sooner than I'd like. I probably got stuck with a high Vf Cree. Too bad for me. Here's a quick table of some approximate cell voltages and tailcap currents:

Volt, Current
4.01 v, 194 mA
3.91 v, 156 mA
3.75 v, 60 mA
3.62 v, 15 mA
3.61 v, 12 mA

If I put in a pair of fresh CR123A primary cells, the thing runs like it should with over 2300 lux at one meter.


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