# Camera Phone LEDs?



## bhvm (Jul 24, 2009)

Every new Cellphone today comes with a camera. And except a lucky handful of Xenons, they all have an LED flash.

Any expert comments on this?
What type of LEDs do they use? regular 1W and 3W stuff we play with?

I see they are strobe optimized. Some manufacturers like Sony allows the LEDs to be used for Video light source or As a torch.

I wonder how they meet the thermal requirements within that small package...if they are really 1W LEDs...


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## csshih (Jul 24, 2009)

camera phone LEDs?

they can take high current, but only for short periods of time.. built specifically for short flashes.


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## [email protected] (Jul 25, 2009)

csshih said:


> camera phone LEDs?
> 
> they can take high current, but only for short periods of time.. built specifically for short flashes.



But some phones can have their LED's on constantly for video light function. 

I think some use a cree chip...

Quote cree XThin® LEDs chip description

"Applications
...
Mobile device camera flashes
..."


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## bhvm (Jul 25, 2009)

I had a closer look at my Nokia N73....

It actually has 4 Dies powered at 70mA each! (3.3 Vf)
That totals up to 1 Watt....
I wonder how they managed the heatsinking?


Nokia however, does not allow video light or Torch functions.

Sony's Torch is sooo handy!
Oh wow... people, i have a $500 torch in my hands, wah!


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## bhvm (Jul 25, 2009)

yeah one thing...

Nokia is using warm white LEDs to compensate for the blue tint.


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## electromage (Aug 6, 2009)

I have a Blackberry 8330, and it looks a lot like a Cree die. It's got an optic that produces a smooth oval-shaped beam, and it can run continuously as a video light.


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## bhvm (Aug 7, 2009)

Unfortunately,
None of the N series Nokia phones allow torch.

They've got to be dumb.


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## Trashman (Aug 7, 2009)

My old Nokia 5140 had a built in flashlight. It was on the top of the phone. Not terribly bright, but bright enough to navigate in the dark or even read a map by. Some of the newer N series phones, as well as the Nokia 5800, have dual LED flashes, which work quite well, despite bad reviews of them. My phone is a Nokia 6120 Classic, which is the smallest of the S60 based phones (it's almost like an N-Series in a tiny "regular" series package), and it's single LED flash is quite poor, compared to my wife's 5800.


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## bhvm (Aug 7, 2009)

However,
Nokia has not provided a 'Torch' Function in menu or software.
They're not using the hardware to its full potential...damm

Anyways, i am a Sony E guy now...
Those Dual LEDs are eager to beat the hell outta any nokias out there...


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## bstrickler (Aug 27, 2009)

In my Samsung Omnia I910, there's a really bright warm-white LED in there. It out-shines my 3-LED Mini-Mag LED light, IIRC. I would say 10-15 lumens, easy. I just wish I could set the Flashlight mode to run longer than 5 minutes (After it shuts off, I can turn it back on right away). What would be nice is to be able to get those LED's for other things (Solitaire mod anyone?)

~Brian


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## bhvm (Aug 28, 2009)

bstrickler said:


> In my Samsung Omnia I910, there's a really bright warm-white LED in there. It out-shines my 3-LED Mini-Mag LED light, IIRC. I would say 10-15 lumens, easy. I just wish I could set the Flashlight mode to run longer than 5 minutes (After it shuts off, I can turn it back on right away). What would be nice is to be able to get those LED's for other things (Solitaire mod anyone?)
> 
> ~Brian


10~15 lumens would be **** poor for the already small camera-phone sensors.

Have you missed a Zero there?
My n73 still puts over 100 lumen (strobed).

That 5 min thing is for the heat i think. Very annoying.
They sould've reduced the mA and allowed it to run for long!

my SE W series has dual LEDs... they allow unlimited torch use with a very slightly reduced mA (so clever of Sony!)


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## bstrickler (Aug 28, 2009)

bhvm said:


> 10~15 lumens would be **** poor for the already small camera-phone sensors.
> 
> Have you missed a Zero there?
> My n73 still puts over 100 lumen (strobed).
> ...




It's possible, but I'm not good with estimating lumens (I don't have any light-measuring devices other than my eyes). I'll have to take beamshots for it. It's hard to really be able to compare against anything, since the other LED things I have are all cool-white LED's, or the warm-whites are 80+ claimed lumens (Mini-Mag & Mag D upgrade). I know that its bright enough that I can see 20+ feet away with it, in pitch black (my eyes are really light sensitive, except to red, ****-poor there, though, so others may not be able to see it that far.)

~Brian


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## Jay611j (Sep 4, 2009)

bstrickler said:


> In my Samsung Omnia I910, there's a really bright warm-white LED in there. It out-shines my 3-LED Mini-Mag LED light, IIRC. I would say 10-15 lumens, easy. I just wish I could set the Flashlight mode to run longer than 5 minutes (After it shuts off, I can turn it back on right away). What would be nice is to be able to get those LED's for other things (Solitaire mod anyone?)
> 
> ~Brian



I have the Omnia as well, and I agree that the 5min limit IS annoying. It actually has two brightness modes. Flashlight mode and video mode are the same, but when you take a picture it gets whats seems almost twice as bright for a second. I wish there was a way to set flashlight mode to this brightness setting! Of course for momentary use.


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## supes (Sep 17, 2009)

My Nokia E63 has a LED flash(behind a filter/lens/diffuser), and it also seconds as a flashlight thanks to the factory software programming. 

When the phone is not on standby, I can press the spacebar(shows flashlight symbol) and the LED flash turns on for a constant on, emitting nice floody and warm-tinted light. Press again for off, or when I switch to a program/go away from home screen.

When the phone is on standby and the screen is off and locked, I can still activate the light, but pressing and holding onto the spacebar for momentary function. This is a genius function, because usually in the standby, intermittent usage is needed, and also prevents the light from coming on and staying on in the pocket or when carrying in a purse.

I guessimate output at 35-50 lumens, floody and not as warm Cree Q3-5A bin, which I like better. I kinda of afraid of leaving it on for long periods of time, because I don't think there is a heatsink.


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## bhvm (Sep 18, 2009)

Nice one.


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## Art (Sep 18, 2009)

My HTC the led has 2 modes , flash and less light for use as a torch and video light.

None of my other phones have a light.


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## CGD08 (Sep 19, 2009)

comment removed


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## DarkFang (Dec 6, 2009)

Hey guys, new to the forum and just spotted this post.

The N series phones by default cannot be used as a torch HOWEVER with aftermarket software can. i have the N97 which has a dual LED flash which is insanely bright, and with an application called 'phonetorch' which can be found on the net (this particular application is for the 5800 and N97) i can use it as an allways on torch. or even to strobe out messages in morse, iv run the torch for extended periods of time and allso never had issues with heat. it does tend to warm up a little however :laughing:


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## bhvm (Dec 7, 2009)

DarkFang said:


> Hey guys, new to the forum and just spotted this post.
> 
> The N series phones by default cannot be used as a torch HOWEVER with aftermarket software can. i have the N97 which has a dual LED flash which is insanely bright, and with an application called 'phonetorch' which can be found on the net (this particular application is for the 5800 and N97) i can use it as an allways on torch. or even to strobe out messages in morse, iv run the torch for extended periods of time and allso never had issues with heat. it does tend to warm up a little however :laughing:



Hello and welcome to the forum!

What I'm mad at is, Nokia has not used the hardware at its full potential. Only 2 Phones till now (S60 5th ed) can use LED as torch, that too by some external software.:tired:

Well coming back to the discussion,
Just saw a macro shot of N97 Dual LED flash module on one of the review sites, and guess what! They look like luxeon REBEL TFCC!

Will post the pic if found.


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## bhvm (Dec 7, 2009)

See here and Zoom on the LED dies-

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://symbianworld.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/04102008203.jpg&imgrefurl=http://symbianworld.org/970-nokia-n96-partymonster-or-boring-multimedia-computer-video-picture-samples-in-the-nightlife/&usg=__42nQnNYRd5f8LE1FbnnNIu97s88=&h=1944&w=2592&sz=869&hl=en&start=7&um=1&tbnid=BacH0efFoetFWM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dn96%2Bflash%2BLED%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dopera%26rls%3Den%26um%3D1

*[colossal picture removed - please read Rule 3. - DM51]*


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## vali (Dec 7, 2009)

Can you use an image that according to rules, please?


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## T0RN4D0 (Dec 7, 2009)

My SE c902 has a flash, but to use as a flashlight you must use the flash+video mode (not actually recording)... So you must open the camera lid, choose video mode, and lightning on, its the only way to use the flashlight... It would be better if they put a simple "let there be light" button somewhere, or a shortcut instead of all the annoying ones. 

But i guess i have slide the phone to get to the LED anyways, and the camera menu opens automatically, so once you get used to it its not too bad... But takes you a week to figure it out haha.


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## bhvm (Dec 7, 2009)

T0RN4D0 said:


> My SE c902 has a flash, but to use as a flashlight you must use the flash+video mode (not actually recording)... So you must open the camera lid, choose video mode, and lightning on, its the only way to use the flashlight... It would be better if they put a simple "let there be light" button somewhere, or a shortcut instead of all the annoying ones.
> 
> But i guess i have slide the phone to get to the LED anyways, and the camera menu opens automatically, so once you get used to it its not too bad... But takes you a week to figure it out haha.



Oh no!
So sony Bungled up the Light now!?
Noo.......infact i praised sony for quick torch button at times. How dumb of them!

My SE W610 has a Simple light option in the quick launch menu- SOS, 1 min or ON.

I played with C903 at once.. boy! are those new flashes bright or what!


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## bhvm (Dec 7, 2009)

vali said:


> Can you use an image that according to rules, please?



Explain, please.


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## spencer (Dec 7, 2009)

Your pic is about 8 times too big. Read the rules. You should be able to find them.


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## SemiMan (Dec 8, 2009)

Lumileds has sold a ton of LEDs into the camera phone market ... look up the PWM series. Basically Luxeon III, then K2/Rebel die in a different package. The efficiency in terms of lumens/watt is generally not as good as compromises need to be made for the package trading off size/thickness with optical efficiency. Osram had a pretty good part and I know that someone was doing something with Cree.

Lumileds phosphor made for a better part as you had nice consistent color across the beam. No advantage in warm white really.... you lose light and you can compensate for tint for the most part in software.

Semiman


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## DM51 (Dec 9, 2009)

bhvm... I've removed your enormous photo. You've been here long enough to have read the Rules.


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## Darkhorse85 (Dec 13, 2009)

I've been lurking this forum for a while now, but this thread is of interest!

Does anyone have an idea for which camera phone has the brightest LED flash performance? 
It seems obvious, also, that the phones should use multiple LEDs to solve compromise between video torch heat and still image pulse. They could use 1 LED for torch or use 2 or more for flash.

Does anyone know of any phones which do this?


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## bhvm (Oct 13, 2012)

Hello Back! Long Time huh....

Well, I got myself an Samsung Note.........and Just like all other stuff the LED torch is W~O~W !!
I upgraded it to Android 4.04 and got a new torch Widget with it
>It has 3 Brightness modes-
* Low Brightness is very good as a night lamp. I usually connect my phone to charger overnight and have it displaying LARGE CLOCK... with LED on LOW mode. Never heats or anything.
* Med brightness is bright, good for navigating around or finding things around. Atleast 3x brighter than low mode.
* High Mode is BLINDING! I think we are talking 250~300 lumens or such! thats superb output and flood is very wide. the Phone heats up a bit in this mode, so i don't use it much.

Well, there are no time limits or anything and the torch works as long as there's juice left. however, i won't recommend anything but LOW mode for many hours at a stretch.
Whats surprising is.. the low mode still gives output comparable to many other phone's torch modes. and MID mode is as good as Nokia N96 Dual LED stuff.

A closer look reveals there are 5 LED dies into the module, wonder what could they be using? Thats some extreme amount of light from something that tiny and its a PHONE.


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## bhvm (Oct 13, 2012)

Darkhorse85 said:


> I've been lurking this forum for a while now, but this thread is of interest!
> 
> Does anyone have an idea for which camera phone has the brightest LED flash performance?
> It seems obvious, also, that the phones should use multiple LEDs to solve compromise between video torch heat and still image pulse. They could use 1 LED for torch or use 2 or more for flash.
> ...


Right now , I'm blinded out with my Samsung Note! Never seen a phone torch so bright!
Your Multiple LED plan seems ok, but it would be better to drive the same LEd with various drive currents. my Sony W610i has 2.......My note has 4! I want more and more Phones to do that.


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## my#1hobby (Oct 13, 2012)

bhvm said:


> Right now , I'm blinded out with my Samsung Note! Never seen a phone torch so bright!
> Your Multiple LED plan seems ok, but it would be better to drive the same LEd with various drive currents. my Sony W610i has 2.......My note as 4! I want more and more Phones to do that.


Wow! What LED app are you using?


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## bhvm (Oct 13, 2012)

my#1hobby said:


> Wow! What LED app are you using?


There's no need for any APP.....Its inbuilt by Samsung!
As mentioned earlier,

"I upgraded it to Android 4.04 and got a new torch Widget with it
>It has 3 Brightness modes"


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