# LED low-beam headlights have arrived.



## s0crates82 (Apr 12, 2006)

and you can find them on the newest uber-Lexus.

three on each side, with projector lenses.

hawt.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/04/12/new-york-auto-show-2008-lexus-ls-600h-l/


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## ACMarina (Apr 12, 2006)

Not bad, not bad...now somebody just make a good replacement for the bulbs we all have and we're set!!

AC "My taillights and CHMSL are LED-ified" Marina


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## chesterqw (Apr 13, 2006)

meh....3 only... i rather wait for elektrolumen to create a k2 stunner of cars as headlamps


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## s0crates82 (Apr 14, 2006)

ACMarina said:


> Not bad, not bad...now somebody just make a good replacement for the bulbs we all have and we're set!!
> 
> AC "My taillights and CHMSL are LED-ified" Marina



Not possible, I'm afraid.

Current headlamp reflectors are designed for a filament that is visible from more angles than a heatsinked LED can be.

Drop-in LED replacement headlamp bulbs are, I think, not going to happen.


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## LEDagent (Apr 16, 2006)

Looking closely at the pictures, It looks like the Lexus LED headlamps are using small projector housings to focus their beams. Like current HID headlights that use projector lenses, I'm sure they've got cut-off patterns built in them too.

I've been trying to search more info on these LEDs but can't seem to find anything about them. As secretive as these LED manufacturers are...I doubt I'll be able to find much of anything.

Just some thoughts about there efficiency...

Probably, for an DOT approved headlight to be affective, they've got to be at least as bright as halogen headlights. One halogen 55W bulb produces around 1400 lumens (Taking a guess using my Thor as a benchmark). One HID 35W bulb does around 3200 lumens....

If the new LED headlights on the Lexus uses only 3 LEDs per headlight then we could figure how much light each LED produces, assuming they must compete with older lighting technology at 1400-3200 lumens.

1400-3200 lumens / 3 LEDs = 467-1067 lumens PER LED.

Have LEDs reached the 500 lumen mark at least? Can you imagine what kind of heatsinking is required per headlight?


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## James S (Apr 16, 2006)

I like the LED headlights, but all the rest of that stuff in that car is creepy. It watches the road with 2 cameras and it watches you with another while you're driving and if you're not looking in the direction where it thinks there is a problem it sounds an alarm and can apply your brakes for you! And finally it adjusts the stearing ratio so that you turn faster to avoid the problem! That last one is scary, if I'm swerving to avoid something and the wheels turn harder than I wanted them to I think it's much more likely you'll roll the car or end up in the ditch. But I suppose they have thought of all that...

Makes this article sound all the more closer to the truth 

Motorist trapped in traffic circle for 14 hours

NOTE: before reacting too strongly to the linked article, be sure to verify the date and understand the american cultural significance of said date. If you dont understand, then I'm sure someone can explain it to you before you say anything too foolish


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## NFW (Apr 19, 2006)

LEDagent said:


> Probably, for an DOT approved headlight to be affective, they've got to be at least as bright as halogen headlights. One halogen 55W bulb produces around 1400 lumens (Taking a guess using my Thor as a benchmark). One HID 35W bulb does around 3200 lumens....



1400/60 lumens = 23 Luxeon IIIs to replace one conventional bulb. Seems to me that you could put the lot of them into a single assembly, a stripe along the top of the bumper / bottom of the hood. A narrow beam from each LED would be OK as they could all be aimed (by molding the reflectors in the assembly) to have whatever beam pattern the designer wants.

Seems to me that it's do-able now with current LEDs, and will only get easier as LED techology improves. I don't think it's that far off.


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## s0crates82 (Apr 19, 2006)

NFW said:


> 1400/60 lumens = 23 Luxeon IIIs to replace one conventional bulb. Seems to me that you could put the lot of them into a single assembly, a stripe along the top of the bumper / bottom of the hood. A narrow beam from each LED would be OK as they could all be aimed (by molding the reflectors in the assembly) to have whatever beam pattern the designer wants.
> 
> Seems to me that it's do-able now with current LEDs, and will only get easier as LED techology improves. I don't think it's that far off.



Let's round up to 25 Lux3's.

Okay.... So you'd need a 2" high by 1' long strip for each side for the low beams. That's not even counting optics. 

Also, do you think that an array of 25 luxeons with 1 cubic inch optics will be able to throw as far as the standard ~8" wide parabolic reflectors and their 55w halogen bulbs?

I figure that a more even pattern of light can be acheived with 25 elements, but i'm not sure if it can cover the road as far as standard DOT lamps.


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## LEDagent (Apr 20, 2006)

I really don't think this headlight system is using THAT many LEDs in the assembly. The picture shown above is from the protoype Lexus being disussed.

It looks like there is only one LED per optic. From what I understand about optics, i don't think it is possible to have multiple light sources in one optic.

Surefire is already experimenting with 10W and 100W LEDs. Posts from CPF member: Newbie, have revealed other manufacturers achiving up to 7000 lumens per LED....70lm/watt. 

Can you imagine how bright 3 LEDs would be if they could output at least 5000 lumens? I think we'll start driving at night with the power of airplane landing lights. NICE!


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## s0crates82 (Apr 20, 2006)

LEDagent said:


> I really don't think this headlight system is using THAT many LEDs in the assembly. The picture shown above is from the protoype Lexus being disussed.
> 
> It looks like there is only one LED per optic. From what I understand about optics, i don't think it is possible to have multiple light sources in one optic.
> 
> ...



Of course it's possible to have more than one light source per optic. You just have to plot out where the light is going to go beforehand. 

IE: two elements : and one lens () with two projections <

: () <

you could easily have two or three (or more) LED's per optic, depending on the shape of the lens.


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## NFW (Apr 21, 2006)

_So you'd need a 2" high by 1' long strip for each side for the low beams. That's not even counting optics._

I'm not saying this would be a drop-in replacement.  But I could see front ends designed around something like this, especially sports cars where the nose tends to be not much taller than the bumper necessitates.

And yes I do think they would have throw comparable to conventional headlights. (It not, use twice as many and make the strip 2" tall instead.)

LEDAgent: yeah, looks like three to me too. But my point was just that LED low-beams don't require big technological advances. They are possible with today's technology - and flashlight technology, at that - so I would not be at all surprised to see them in production in a couple years.


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## Timson (Apr 23, 2006)

I've seen a number of car manufacturers showcasing prototype LED headlights, including Audi, Land Rover, Lexus...Off the top of my head

All had multiple emitters.

With that 3 lamp Lexus set-up...Who knows how many emitters are behind each projector lense.

Have a look at this shot of the Audi Nuvolari. 
I see 18 emitters on each side for the dipped beam. At 3 W per emitter that would equate to standard front headlight wattage (Around 55W)







Tim.


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## Chronos (Apr 24, 2006)

I'll have to dig this one up- in one of my car magazines/catalogs (I think it was a German parts catalog) there was a mini-feature on the latest Audi DTM racer. It utilizes LED headlights that were being used as a prototype for production.


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## Pap at LKN (May 13, 2014)

s0crates82 said:


> Not possible, I'm afraid.
> 
> Current headlamp reflectors are designed for a filament that is visible from more angles than a heatsinked LED can be.
> 
> Drop-in LED replacement headlamp bulbs are, I think, not going to happen.



Never say never.

I just replaced a halogen bulb with a LED assembly in my 2005 Buick Lacrosse. The bulb was a H11, Halogen filled, filiment in a glass envelope. 

The replacement I found was an array of 18 LED divices that replaced the glass bulb with the same connector and mounting of the H11. It has no protection from the air environment, other than the headlight assembly, which has a rainproof enclosure.

I have not yet driven at night with it, and the other bulb in the car is a conventional Halogen. I will replace the Halogen when an if I get enough feeling that the LED will be adequate, and last a few weeks.

But as for your statement that it will never happen, it has.


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## Unicorn (May 23, 2014)

Pap at LKN said:


> Never say never.
> 
> I just replaced a halogen bulb with a LED assembly in my 2005 Buick Lacrosse. The bulb was a H11, Halogen filled, filiment in a glass envelope.
> 
> ...



It's not legal at all. It also probably doesn't meet any of the standards for the US, Canada, or Europe. Well it can't, but that's beside the point. Cut off of the beam at a specific height, amount of light at a distance versus in the foreground (many will fool you by putting more light right in front of you so they look brighter, but are actually making things more dangerous because you're pupils close up a bit to make up for the brighter light, so you aren't seeing as much at a distance where you need to actually see), the amount of glare to other drivers because even a light that isn't focused properly so isn't helpful to you, can blind other drivers. Human eyes suck when it comes to being able to tell which light is better. We often think one source is brighter, but stick a meter in there and the amount of light is much less. Or if you want so called, "real world" tests, you can figure out close something has to be in order to see it. The ones that you think are brighter won't let you see an object out as far.

If you don't mind a couple people getting a bit snarky, post this in the automotive lighting forum. You'll also be able to ask and get told the exact reasons these aren't safe, effective, or legal.
Here's a good place to start,
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...wall-amp-lux-comparison-LED-H11-LL-H11-100-H9


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