# Good quality, cheap laser safety glasses



## wileecoyote (Jan 8, 2007)

I have done quite a bit of research in an attempt to find good quality laser safety glasses at a decent price (hopefully below $50 per pair shipped). The idea is to find a reliable and consistent source for a brand new product that would be widely available to others.

Currently WickedLasers has some of the best prices but they charge high shipping so you still have to pay $70 for a single pair. You also need to buy separate pairs for green and red lasers so total protection for both wavelengths would cost you $140 and you can only wear one pair at a time. Another drawback is that they don’t publish the wavelength or OD coverage so the actual level of protection is unknown.

Most of the other major manufacturers and distributors make a wide variety of laser safety lenses including broadband units which cover nearly the entire laser spectrum. The best quality and price combination I could find is the Trinity polycarbonate lens model 1207 which is available in a number of different frame styles for $119. You apparently have to call them or locate a distributor to place an order after deciding which frame style you want. This is a nice unit but out of the price range for most hobbyists, especially when you may need to buy several pairs for spectators or garage helpers. For this price we can buy another decent laser so it would be similar to buying a spare tire for nearly the full price of your car. No thanks.

After lots of web surfing I have found what appears to be a promising lead: the Ballistic-Laser Protective Spectacles (B-LPS) system which is currently provided to the US military soldiers for protection against a wide variety of projectiles, sun, dust, wind, and laser light sources. B-LPS is available in four lens configurations: Clear, Gray, Green, and Brown. The Clear lens is intended to be used in low light or night conditions and offers ultraviolet (UV) protection. The Gray lens is offers typical sunglass UV protection and blocks 85% of visible light. The Green lens (marked "S2" on the lens) provides protection against two types of laser emissions. The Brown lens (marked "S3" on the lens) protects against three types of laser emissions. All the lenses offer ballistic protection; they will stop a 15-caliber steel pellet, at 650 feet per second. So the ideal solution for laser hobbyists would be to acquire B-LPS with both Green and Brown lenses.

These products are available on eBay and the web for $10-$25 or in many army surplus stores however we still don’t know their specific wavelength and OD factors. I am hoping someone else on this forum can find that information by using the following military product numbers:

NSN # 8465-01-416-3207
Green 2WL for nighttime use

NSN # 8465-01-416-3210
Dark brown/orange 3WL for daylight use

If someone can verify the wavelength and OD coverage of the B-LPS system then we can confirm whether or not it is a practical solution for the forum members. Of course if you have a better solution then please post that as well.


For anyone that is curious I also found two military documents which contain a lot of interesting information about laser usage and protection:

The Army Vision Conservation and Readiness Program
Section 4-27 and Appendix E

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE HANDBOOK, LASER SAFETY ON RANGES AND IN OTHER OUTDOORS AREAS
Amazing amount of detail on threat levels and protection types required


FYI
The military also provides a similar system known as Special Protective Eyewear, Cylindrical System (SPECS) which has similar lens options to B-LPS however these glasses can not be worn with prescription glasses and in my opinion they are less comfortable / practical and just a bit fugly. I have a nearly identical unit with four different lens types for firearms use and it is ok but not good when you need to wear prescription lenses underneath. I think the B-LPS design is superior for most needs.


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## Bimmerboy (Jan 8, 2007)

Good research, Wilee. You may have already seen the following datasheets, but they contain the specs for Wicked's glasses, which look to be the Noir Lasershields. They appear to be the newer spec models with a higher OD than the perhaps more sought after, lower OD ones. 

http://www.psplc.com/datasheets/noir/NRlasereyewear.pdf

http://www.psplc.com/datasheets/noir/NRlasershield.pdf

Gonna' do some poking around regarding the GI Issue types. If they work properly for our purposes, then we may have found our solution indeed. What a price!


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## slav_2000 (Jan 8, 2007)

The question about "Ballistic-Laser Protective Spectacles (B-LPS)" is very important to us. And it's not discovered yet.

Guru of lasers, what can you say about it, really?


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## Aseras (Jan 8, 2007)

most if not all miltary lasers are IR lasers ( 800 / 1064nm most are 1064 ).. might be useful for IR wavelngths.. especially for unfiltered lasers or where there's a question about them.


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## wileecoyote (Jan 8, 2007)

Aseras said:


> most if not all miltary lasers are IR lasers ( 800 / 1064nm most are 1064 ).. might be useful for IR wavelngths.. especially for unfiltered lasers or where there's a question about them.


One of the military documents that I sent a link to contains a detailed table of all military laser wavelengths and their effective distances and strengths, and the required OD protection level for each. There was one laser that operates at 532nm (visible green) and it is mounted on helicopters to serve as a "magic lantern". As a result I am reasonably certain the military would want the B-LPS to protect against this wavelength in addition to the other more common bands but I have yet to find a document which confirms the coverage provided by B-LPS.


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## slav_2000 (Jan 10, 2007)

I've found in one of the eBay product description text like this: "used to protect from invisible laser of range-finder, stored min. at 500 meters. Avoid direct eye exposure at short distance..." Something like this. I don't think right now that BLPS from eBay can be used for us as green lasers protectors... 

Sorry, exact text is:
*"CAUTION*
*The laser protective frontsert provides excellent protection against direct frontal exposure by a laser range finder or designator at ranges greater than 500 meters. However, protection from the side of the frontsert is limited. Therefore, intentional laser exposure to the side must be avoid. Any use of lasers in two-sided training exercises must be approved by the surgeon general (ar 385-63)"*


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## wileecoyote (Jan 10, 2007)

slav_2000 said:


> I've found in one of the eBay product description text...I don't think right now that BLPS from eBay can be used for us as green lasers protectors...*protection from the side of the frontsert is limited...*


The models on ebay and the web which use the "frontsert" are very old stock which is not current issue. Back then there were very few lasers in use by the military so they only provided one laser lens which was green and thus it probably doesn't protect against green lasers. The current issue B-LPS is available with a brown lens (3 wavelength for daytime) and a green lens (2 wavelength for nighttime) but it is unknown which specific wavelengths and OD ratings are covered by each lens.

*UPDATE FOR POSSIBLE GROUP BUY:*
I am in contact with a seller that has a truckload of the current issue B-LPS glasses available with all different lenses. They are brand new in the military packaging and the seller is already down to $9.99 per pair plus actual shipping if I buy a small quantity but they may go even lower if offer to buy a few dozen pairs or more. We still don't know for sure how much coverage is provided but I am fairly confident that the brown lens will protect against most if not all visible lasers so I am going to take a shot at it. Even if we find out that they don't cover everything we can always use them for partial coverage or resell them on ebay. If anyone from this forum wants in on this then just let me know how many and I will only charge you my cost plus actual shipping to your home via USPS parcel post which should be less than $3 since these are so lightweight. I am planning to make my initial purchase by Friday 1/12 so speak up soon if interested. If enough people respond after Friday 1/12 then we can always look at a second group buy until the supplier runs out of the brown or green lenses. I am trying to get mostly brown lenses since those cover the most wavelengths but will order a few green just in case I later experiment with red lasers or some of you want the green. Also, I have used these frames with clear and tinted lenses for firearms protection and they work very well.


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## slav_2000 (Jan 10, 2007)

As I understand, these "goggles" moreover are used as ballistic protectors against some types of bullets. Is it true? If yes, it's not so bad at all!

9.99 and shipment costs - not too expensive price to try it. But what's about delivery to Russia?  and payment methods?


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## Aseras (Jan 10, 2007)

the are not going to protect against a bullet ( maybe a bb or a 22 at LONG range ) but they will protect against shrapnel and debris.

i'd be in for a group buy since a good pair of IR goggles would be nice. you can never have too much eye protection.


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## wileecoyote (Jan 10, 2007)

Aseras said:


> the are not going to protect against a bullet ( maybe a bb or a 22 at LONG range ) but they will protect against shrapnel and debris.
> 
> i'd be in for a group buy since a good pair of IR goggles would be nice. you can never have too much eye protection.


Actually they are rated to stop a 5.8 grain T-37 shaped fragment at 650 feet per second. They won't stop a direct hit from a heavier bullet obviously but with this rating they would at least offer good protection against ricochets or fragments, or sand, rocks, and other debris.


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## wileecoyote (Jan 10, 2007)

slav_2000 said:


> As I understand, these "goggles" moreover are used as ballistic protectors against some types of bullets. Is it true? If yes, it's not so bad at all!
> 
> 9.99 and shipment costs - not too expensive price to try it. But what's about delivery to Russia?  and payment methods?


Payment would be cash via Paypal (not credit cards) or a certified check or money order. I would ship to wherever you want via USPS mail. Actual costs to Russia are unknown but you can check at usps.com and figure out if this would work for you. Pick any US state as the point of origination just to get a quote.


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## Bimmerboy (Jan 10, 2007)

I'm tempted by the price, Wilee, but feel pretty wary of these things since we don't know what they do. Wondering about the possibility of them doing more harm than good... pupil dilation and whatnot. I also can't get the phrase "too good to be true" out of my head.

I'll put in a little more research time this morning in hope that some info turns up.

BTW, did you happen to check out the datasheets on those Noir's/Wicked's?


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## slav_2000 (Jan 10, 2007)

wileecoyote said:


> Payment would be cash via Paypal (not credit cards) or a certified check or money order. I would ship to wherever you want via USPS mail. Actual costs to Russia are unknown but you can check at usps.com and figure out if this would work for you. Pick any US state as the point of origination just to get a quote.


 
Сertainly USPS works fine with different types of sipments to Russia with tracking code or w/o it. Shipment with trackiong code will cost about 25$, but taking in consideration goggles cost I think that actually I don't need tracking. Simple air mail (or something like this) will cost about 5-10$. Total about 15-20$ for this item looks like good deal 

Fortunately PayPal now works with russian people 

P.S.: Ready to buy it. To try to buy it  What do I need to do in this direction?


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## wileecoyote (Jan 10, 2007)

Bimmerboy said:


> I'm tempted by the price, Wilee, but feel pretty wary of these things since we don't know what they do. Wondering about the possibility of them doing more harm than good... pupil dilation and whatnot. I also can't get the phrase "too good to be true" out of my head.
> 
> I'll put in a little more research time this morning in hope that some info turns up.
> 
> BTW, did you happen to check out the datasheets on those Noir's/Wicked's?


I did check out the wicked glasses and noticed that their site now has the specs posted, plus they took the green lenses down and now just have a blue pair and red pair posted on the site. They also added free shipping (at least when I just put a single pair in my cart) so this is very tempting. Kudos to WL for making these changes.

I still have two major problems with the wicked glasses: you can't get broadband coverage from a single pair thus you have to switch frames with each laser type and you won't be protected if working with a multi-laser show, or if you are unlucky enough to get a laser without an IR filter to remove the harmful stuff. Plus $50 per pair is still a lot more than $10 per pair so I am going to pursue the B-LPS glasses until I confirm what their actual coverage rating is. I am pretty confident that they will work well since the military is not stupid and these are the only glasses they use to protect all soldiers from all lasers, and we have proof that the military does use 532nm lasers.

If wicked started selling a brown lens with broadband coverage for $50 and free shipping then I might be tempted to abandon the B-LPS option but that may not happen...


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## wileecoyote (Jan 10, 2007)

slav_2000 said:


> Ready to buy it. To try to buy it  What do I need to do in this direction?


Just wait until I get my first order then I will PM you with payment instructions and to get your shipping address. I am buying a small quantity anyway since I would want some extras on hand to give to spectators for my laser shows...


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## Bimmerboy (Jan 10, 2007)

Forgot to add this to my last post.

Are these made by American Optical? If so, I'm thinking about giving them a call.


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## wileecoyote (Jan 10, 2007)

Bimmerboy said:


> Forgot to add this to my last post.
> 
> Are these made by American Optical? If so, I'm thinking about giving them a call.


Don't know yet. I have not been able to confirm if there is a sole manufacturer or not, or what the specific coverage specs are. With many military items there can actually be multiple manufacturers which adhere to the same specs, which makes the internet research more difficult.


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## Bimmerboy (Jan 10, 2007)

LOL... this is maddening. No info on the NSN numbers. Military document MIL-PRF-44366B promises to contain the details, but cannot find it on the web. 
So far, I've found both an independant lab, and possibly a military office that may have the info we need, or point us to it. But, I'm wondering if I may come across as some kind of nut job to these people if I try calling them. 

As of yet, this is the most specific information I can dig up:

From http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/p40_506.pdf, June 2, 2003.

"(1) Clear. This lens transmits approximately 95 percent of light and has no effect on the color of objects.
(2) Gray. This filter acts as a sunglass. This filter has minimal effect on the color of objects.
(3) Green. This filter is designed to protect users from specific wavelengths. This filter markedly attenuates red and
mildly attenuates yellow, blue, and brown. Green is enhanced.
(4) Brown (dark orange). This filter is designed to protect users from specific wavelengths. This filter markedly
attenuates all colors, especially blue."

Also, this from http://www.natick.army.mil/about/pao/2002/02-01.htm, January 8, 2002:

"BLPS, SPECS and SWDG use four lenses designed for each item: clear, sunglass, three-line laser protective and two-line laser protective. When lasers are not a hazard, soldiers can use the clear lens to protect against ballistic and ultraviolet rays day or night, or use a darkened sunglass lens during the day that adds sun glare protection. 

When lasers are a danger, soldiers currently switch to a green lens that blocks two wavelengths for use in dim light or a dark lens that shields three wavelengths for use in daylight. Special coloring and coatings absorb the laser to eliminate or minimize injuries. 

"The problem with (the daytime lens) is that it's dye-based and very dark. It is not suitable for use at night, which is why there is a separate two-wavelength lens, which has better transmission properties, for nighttime use," Markey said. "The third wavelength wouldn't likely be used at night anyway because it would be visible." 

The new system uses two types of laser reflective technologies sandwiched between two layers of polycarbonate for durability, and it covers a wider band of near-infrared wavelength energy than the current systems. Separate daytime and nighttime lenses are gone."

Unless the specifications on these things are classified, we should be able to find out... maybe. However, they are sounding pretty good so far. Probably worth a shot. I might be in for two pairs, Wilee.

Edit: Just left a voice mail for the person I'd need to speak with at the beforementioned lab. Let's see what we find out.


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## wileecoyote (Jan 10, 2007)

Bimmerboy said:


> LOL... this is maddening. No info on the NSN numbers. Military document MIL-PRF-44366B promises to contain the details, but cannot find it on the web...


Yes, I agree it is maddening. So much info on the web but yet haven't found anything which confirms the specs for these B-LPS. I am pretty sure I did find the MIL-PRF-44366B document before but it didn't have the wavelengths listed.

I did find a site which listed 21 of the actual military suppliers (look under Worker Protection... Personal Protection... Safety Eyewear) but I only recognized a few of those names as laser eyeware manufacturers. I called Elvex which seemed like the most promising and they do manufacturer some glasses for the military but not the B-LPS. I also checked the websites for a few of the other companies listed but couldn't find laser eyeware listed. The search continues...


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## Aseras (Jan 10, 2007)

I found this in "NBC Battle book"



> Laser Lenses: Two laser protective lenses were type-classified in
> 1990. A two wavelength lens (Type 5), green in color, protects against neodymium and ruby
> lasers. A three wavelength lens (Type 6), brown in color, protects against neodymium, ruby, and
> double neodymium lasers.





> The laser/ballistic outsert (Figure 6-M) based on proven technology from the
> Ballistic/Laser Protective Spectacles (B/LPS), provides protection from low speed mortar
> fragments and two laser wavelengths, 694 nm and 1064 nm. The outsert is made of dyed
> polycarbonate as the dyes provide the laser protection and the polycarbonate provides the
> ...


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## Aseras (Jan 10, 2007)

found this too



> 3.5.2.6 High energy laser optical densitv for class 3 lens. The class 3 lens shall yield
> optical densities equal to or greater than 4 at 694.3 nm (ruby laser wavelength) and 4 at 1064 nm
> (Nd:YAG laser wavelength) for laser radiation incident normal to the surface of the spectacles,
> with any polarization state, when tested against laser radiation having a radiant exposure of 20
> ...


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## wileecoyote (Jan 10, 2007)

Aseras said:


> I found this in "NBC Battle book"


I found similar info in several documents on the web. Anything that refers to "frontsert" or "outsert" is based on the old model of the B-LPS which was only provided with a single green lens at a time when very few lasers were in use.


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## wileecoyote (Jan 10, 2007)

Aseras said:


> found this too


This looks like paydirt. It specifically mentions OD of 4 or greater and covers three wavelength ranges including 532nm. Can you confirm the source of this document so we can be sure it refers to the current version of B-LPS.


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## Bimmerboy (Jan 10, 2007)

We may be getting real close here. I'm wondering what this means though...

"when tested against laser rad]ation having a radhrrt exposure of *20 milliJorrles per square centimeter for Q-switched emissions less than 40 nanoseconds* and *greater than 1 nanosecond when tested as specified in 4.4.2.6."*

If I'm understanding this correctly, the OD is rated here under conditions of a specific power/time ratio. Do those conditions satisfy the safety level we need while experimenting with 50 - 150mW lasers in a "close up" environment?

That may be the last question that needs answering before I fully trust my eyes with BLPS. Again, we may be getting reeeal close to being able to easily afford the proper protection. Looks like we have the proper wavelengths. Excellent work, gentlemen.


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## wileecoyote (Jan 10, 2007)

Bimmerboy said:


> We may be getting real close here. I'm wondering what this means though...
> 
> "when tested against laser rad]ation having a radhrrt exposure of *20 milliJorrles per square centimeter for Q-switched emissions less than 40 nanoseconds* and *greater than 1 nanosecond when tested as specified in 4.4.2.6."*
> 
> ...


I am not educated enough to know what the lingo means but I assume it is a clarification related to the type and strength of the laser exposure to be used for the testing. Maybe some expert from the forums can translate for us.

My general assumption is that the military would not be using laser safety glasses that provide minimal coverage or protection since many of their lasers are quite powerful, much more so than what we are working with. Some of the military medical documents that I found indicated that symptoms of even brief exposure to certain lasers would include burned and melted skin, scarred eyelids, bursted blood vessels, etc. so I think it is safe to trust the B-LPS once the wavelength and OD ratings are confirmed. Also, I don't see this level of detail being posted on the sites which sell the other types of glasses, so if you are truly worried about it then you would also need to find out how those other glasses were tested and compare all the detailed test methods to the ratings before making a decision.


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## Aseras (Jan 10, 2007)

this is the file i found the info in http://208.219.69.31/laser/MIL_PRF_31013.pdf

i rehosted it got it of a .mil site though. also for clarification the SWDG, BLPS and SPECS system all use the same 4 lenses.

http://www.natick.army.mil/about/pao/2002/02-01.htm


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## wileecoyote (Jan 10, 2007)

Aseras said:


> this is the file i found the info in http://208.219.69.31/laser/MIL_PRF_31013.pdf
> 
> i rehosted it got it of a .mil site though. also for clarification the SWDG, BLPS and SPECS system all use the same 4 lenses.
> 
> http://www.natick.army.mil/about/pao/2002/02-01.htm


Paydirt at last. These coverages look good to me. I am ordering some from the supplier tomorrow. PM me or reply to this thread with the quantity of glasses you want. Include the quantity for glasses with brown lens (3 wavelength, good for broadband and daytime use) separate from quantity for glasses with green lens (2 wavelength, good for nighttime and less broad coverage). I have asked the supplier if they can get the extra lenses separately but I don't think they can so I will just get one pair of each for my own use, plus another 2 pairs of each for spectators. At this price all six pairs with shipping will cost about the same as one pair from WL, and the brown lenses have better protection.


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## tehota (Jan 10, 2007)

Good work..


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## wileecoyote (Jan 11, 2007)

MODERATOR: a new thread has been started regarding the group-by offer. It contains a concise summary of this info so please close this thread. The new thread is located here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/148181


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## Kiessling (Jan 11, 2007)

Just a note ... the new thread is a group buy and was moved to the appropriate forum, so please continue it there. A pointer was left in this forum, too.
Good work there 
bernhard


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