# HID vs. LED vs. Halogen



## theflasher (Aug 12, 2008)

So I am in looking to buy a new, really bright flashlight. I have seen a few and they seem amazing. 

The problem is that I don't know the difference between HID, LED, or Halogen flashlights. Now, I know they are all different bulbs and that sort of thing, I just don't know the pros and cons to each type. I am talking about power, battery life, price, reliability, most popular, etc. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## Gunner12 (Aug 12, 2008)

HIDs are bulbs that use a sustained electrical spark to create light. Very bright(and very efficient), can be focused really well as in can throw far) but requires a ballast which takes up space and is 10 Watts minimal. Smallest size I've seen them is around a normal 2D light size. You can choose from many different types, powers, color tempreature and such. The lowerest I've seen from a HID is around 500 lumen and highest goes over a million lumen. They usually have a longer life then an Incandescent bulb. Price uis uisually high though at over $100 for the cheaper ones. Usually powered by internal rechargeable batteries.

Incandescents, Halogen, Xenon, what ever that uses resistance from a thin wire to heat it self up to a glowing tempreature to privide light I will group into incandescents. Thes are the most common, easiest to find lights. Efficiency is pretty low(compared to LEDs and HIDs) but it is found everywhere. There are also many powers to choose from(watts and lumen wise) but the max color tempreature I've seen is in the high 3000ks(maybe 4000k). Sunlight is around 6000K. They give better color rendering then LEDs(things pop out more) but for the same output, have much shorter runtime then LED or a HID fo the same lumen. Many stil use them for the color rendering or in hotwire mods(hotwire mods drive the lamps past their intended voltage and current for more output and a whiter light. They can give a good bit of throw(this depends more on the refelctor then the emitting surfece). The normal 2D incandescent light you see is around 15 lumen. Powered by all types of batteries, higher power ones use good rechargeable batteries.

LEDs give the best output to runtime ratio for smaller lights. They can be dimmed without much cange in tint unlike incans and HIDs(HIDs can be degraded faster by under or over driving). They have the longest life out of all the above two light sources. They come in a variety of different colors. They most common ones are the 5mm LEDs, you'll need to use quite a few to equal one of the high power LEDs that most LED lights discussed here have and are hard to focus. They are very popular for smaller lights and many peopel here one at least one. The current gen of LEDs are the brightest ones out right now(they are the Cree XR-E P4-R2 bin, Seoul P4 U-V bin, Luxeon Rebel 80-100 bin, Luxeon TFFC 180 bin and up, Seoul P7 C bin). The better ones can easily hit over 200 lumen when driven withing spec and can hit 300 if overdriven. They are mainly powered by Li-ion batteries of various sizes, CR123s, and AA batteries. There are some that use other batteries. Many have multiple modes for longer runtime, higher outout, strobe and so on.

I'm probably missing a lot of other info.

So, what are you looking for in your next light(price, output, runtime, modes, power source)?

This thread is probably better in the General Flashlight section.

:welcome:


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## theflasher (Aug 12, 2008)

Thanks for the info.

I am looking to get one of the hand-held flashlight-spotlights with a rechargeable battery. I don't want one of the small lights. I want a bigger spot light. I am looking at a 7inch HID spotlight with 35w power, 500,000 cd, and runs 90 min continuous usage. It has a 4inch reflector. It has a an emergency use LED light on both sides. Has battery indicator. But runs off of a rechargeable lead-acid battery. Does this sound like a good light?

Also, I would like to see if I got your info correct....

HID: The brightest light but also the most expensive. Degrades over time (I didn't get why it degrades though). Projects light the furthest distance.

Halogen: The dimmest of the three types but it does provide a cheap light source that is tolerable for most common uses. How far do these usually project light? Anything close to the HID?

LED: Lives the longest and has a moderate price range. Used mostly in smaller lights. Do they make LED spotlights? I haven't found any spotlights that look like the HID's or Halogens. I have only been able to find bulbs. If they do make LED spotlights, do they project light as far as HID's?

From reviews and other forums I have read HID's just seem to reign the spotlight industry. Is this true or have I just been reading biased forums?

Once again, thanks for your info and opinions. It is a good feeling to finally talk to people that know what they are talking about.


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## Gunner12 (Aug 13, 2008)

HID isn't the brightest. It is brighter then a similarly powered incandescent. LEDs can't match it in output yet, well the Seoul P7 and the upcoming Cree MC-E can beat some of the lower power HIDs in output but they won't throw as far. I'm not sure if it(HID bulbs) degrades. I was just saying that if a HID lamp isn't driven to spec, it can be damaged.

Incandescents can be very bright, but they lack in efficiency but is preferred by some for its ability to make things "pop" out more outdoors. A high power hotwire easily outlumens a car's headlamp and can set paper on fire and cook food. Those hotwires go over $100(for parts alone) and good incans can cost quite a bit. Look at the Surefire M6 as an example.

LED don't live very long if they are severely overdriven, as many 5mm ones are. Prices I've seen over $1000, which is more then enough for a decent HID light. A correctly designed LED light can throw pretty far, check this thread for an extreme example. LED slowly degrade over time when driven correctly.

You won't be getting 35 watt from something 7 inches long. What you want as of right now registers as an impossible in my mind. That might be the right space for a ballast and a bulb though. Li-ion batteries(and NiMh ones) have higher energy density then Lead Acid ones.Less weight equal or more power for a smaller size.

They do make LED throwers(non modded stock lights) but those "only" throw 200-300 something meters of usable light.

HIDs are used in stadium lighting, car headlamps, some street lights, and many other places. In flashlights, they are usually used in larger lights mostly for spotting porposes it seems.

What do you need the light to do?

You might want to ask a Mod or Admin to move your thread to the General Flashlights section so more people read you thread.


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## theflasher (Aug 13, 2008)

Wow, thanks for all the information. That is all very helpful.

This is the light I am looking at that I mentioned in my previous post. http://cgi.ebay.com/Vector-Power-On...ryZ16037QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You will have to tell me if its a good deal or not. That is the kind of light I want... or at least that is what I think I want. 

I still don't know a whole lot about lights. But you did help me a great deal. Thanks so much.


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## SilentK (Aug 13, 2008)

You have a link to a VERY good HID light. it is highly recomended for people who need alot of light without killing the wallet. you will see that most of the people who hang out in the spotlight part of CPF have one. some will even have several just because you get so much bang for your buck. Get it. you wont regret it. any ways, 

Halogen: consumes to most energy due to the simple method of producing light. it would be the brightest of the three, but the carbon arcs have changed that, now havent they.

Led: gives the most lumens per watt.


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## BlueBeam22 (Aug 13, 2008)

theflasher, :welcome:

I have the 35 watt Vector Power On Board HID, a Coleman 530 lumen LED spotlight, and a Professional's Favorite 17.5 million candlepower halogen spotlight.

The LED spotlight is the dimmest of the 3, but still very bright and it runs at least 2 hours on a full charge. I got it at Sears Hardware for $60

The Power On Board HID is extremely bright and throws well over half a mile. It runs over an hour at full brightness on a full charge.

The Professional's Favorite 17.5 million candlepower spotlight is the most powerful of the 3. It has a brighter hotspot (brightest part of the beam) than the Power On Board HID and more throw (how far away it can light up objects). Since the Pro's Favorite is a halogen spotlight it only runs for about 10 minutes at full brightness and then 20-30 more minutes dimmer. The Pro's Favorite can be run directly from its car charger adapter whereas the Power On Board HID cannot. The Professional's Favorite looks quite a bit brighter than the Power On Board HID because of its extremely bright hotspot and laser like throw.

The one thing I like better about the HID is its blue beam rather than the Pro's Favorite's yellowish white beam.

If you want the brightest and most powerful spotlight I recommend you get the Professional's Favorite 17.5 million candlepower from Advance Auto Parts for $40. If you don't have an Advance Auto Parts I recommend you get the Power On Board HID.


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## theflasher (Aug 13, 2008)

thanks a lot guys. I am narrowing my choices slowly.

bluebeam22: Thanks for the input on the LED spotlight. I can't even find any information about those lights.. better yet, i can't even find any being sold.

Thanks a lot everyone. Any other info/opinions are still welcome.


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## SilentK (Aug 15, 2008)

Here is a link to the coleman LED spotlight

http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=4351-700&categoryid=1120


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## BlueBeam22 (Aug 15, 2008)

SilentK thank you for posting that link. It provides excellent information and great pictures.

Here is the best deal I have seen on the Coleman LED spotlight so far.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8187724


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## BVH (Aug 15, 2008)

Go for the POB HID. You'll never look back at the incans  There's just "something" about HID's!

Seriously though, all 3 of the technologies are lots of fun to own and use. Each has its place. I have a bunch of HID's for long distance and huge amounts of light. I carry a very small LED in my pocket at all times. And yes, I do still have some incans. My LarryK14 which is a real sleeper and puts out unbelievable amounts of light for about 5 minutes, the Cyclops 15 mcd, a Mac's torch, a bunch of stock mags.

Blue, with your love of incans, why haven't you built yourself a LarryK14 yet?


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## BlueBeam22 (Aug 15, 2008)

I really like the POB HID. Even though it's not as bright as the Pro's Favorite it stays at full brightness at least 4 times longer. The other nice thing about it is that it is only half the size of the Pro's Favorite.

IMHO...

Here is what the Pro's Favorite has over the POB:

Brightness/throw
Ruggedness/durability
Build quality
Can be run directly from its 12V DC car adaptor
Gives much better color rendition

And here is what the POB has over the Pro's Favorite:

Much longer runtime
Only half the size
Has a charge status indicator that lets you know when it's fully charged
Has a battery status indicator


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## BVH (Aug 15, 2008)

Blue, if your POB had a 4300K lamp, IMHO it would come out on top in a comparison with the Pro's Fav. You should consider getting the Amondotech (old name, now sold by Matt @ Batt Junct.) 3152 Illuminator. It is a POB with a 4300 lamp. The Illuminators were introduced before Sam's had theirs. They were specially made for Amondotech with the 4300 lamp.


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## BlueBeam22 (Aug 15, 2008)

The 3152 sounds great. I know since it has a 4200K HID bulb it would put out a lot more lumens than the Pro's Favorite so it would most likely beat it like you said. Here is a link I found: http://www.amondotech.com/browseproducts/AmondoTech-Illuminator-(3152)-HID.HTML

I have seen beamshots of the 3152 and it is very impressive, it really smokes the POB!

The Pro's Favorite's hotspot looks about 30% brighter to me than the POB's hotspot. The Pro's Favorite also has a brighter hotspot than my 15mcp Thor.


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## BVH (Aug 15, 2008)

In looking at Matts site, it appears the Illuminator and Mega-illuminator are no longer available.


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## Flashanator (Aug 15, 2008)

bvh, I can see the meg-illum & its available on batt junc?


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## BVH (Aug 15, 2008)

Must have missed it. How about the Illuminator?


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## Patriot (Aug 16, 2008)

I haven't seen the relabeled Amondotech in a long time. The Ti mega is still around though, as Flashanator stated.

http://www.batteryjunction.com/mega-illuminator.html




*the-flasher - *I also think the POB would fill the niche you're looking for without breaking the bank. Actually it would more than fill the niche. They're an amazing value!
:welcome:


*Gunner -* great info and links bro! :thumbsup:


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## Patriot (Aug 16, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> The 3152 sounds great. I know since it has a 4200K HID bulb it would put out a lot more lumens than the Pro's Favorite so it would most likely beat it like you said. Here is a link I found: http://www.amondotech.com/browseproducts/AmondoTech-Illuminator-(3152)-HID.HTML
> 
> I have seen beamshots of the 3152 and it is very impressive, it really smokes the POB!
> 
> The Pro's Favorite's hotspot looks about 30% brighter to me than the POB's hotspot. The Pro's Favorite also has a brighter hotspot than my 15mcp Thor.




Blue, I think that you'd really enjoy and 4300K range HID sometime. You're kinda spoiled with a bunch of really bright incan's so the POB isn't doing it for you. You seem like someone who really appreciates the warmer temperatures though.


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## BlueBeam22 (Aug 16, 2008)

Hello Patriot:wave:

Maybe I will consider getting the Mega Illuminator when I want my next light. It sounds like the best choice for a super bright and long throwing light since the 4200K bulb produces so much more light than any 6000K and gives much better color rendition.


Do you think the N30 might also be a good choice?


BTW, last night I took my Pro's Favorite and 15mcp Thor out to test them on some trees about 350 yards away. To my extreme surprise the Thor actually had more throw and lit the trees up brighter than the Pro's Favorite, probably due to its smooth reflector. It doesn't make sense why the Pro's Favorite's hotspot is so much brighter than the Thor's at close range.

I then put the Thor against the POB and it illuminated the trees quite a bit brighter than the POB, and when I shined them in the same area the POB's beam was hardly visible. I am very impressed with the 15mcp Thor.


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## Flashanator (Aug 16, 2008)

BlueBeam seems like the guy who has :uber appreciation: for all his lights. Good stuff :thumbsup:

Hope you do buy the Mega Illuminator as its an amazing light.


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## BlueBeam22 (Aug 16, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> BlueBeam seems like the guy who has :uber appreciation: for all his lights. Good stuff :thumbsup:
> 
> Hope you do buy the Mega Illuminator as its an amazing light.


 
Thanks Flashanator!

The Mega Illuminator really does look like the best choice for me, so I'll get one maybe in a few months. I don't mind carrying around big heavy lights, I just want maximum throw and brightness.:thumbsup:


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