# DIY: Building a budget XML superthrower from Solarforce Masterpiece Pro 1 head



## Tana (Dec 30, 2012)

I'm probably missing something but... as I'm looking into data sheets for XPG and XPG2, for the best of me I cannot see how is XPG2 R5 brighter than XPG R5... as a matter of fact, the lux numbers are a little worse... same for XPE and XML...

Does XPG2 R5 and XPG R5 is basically the same thing... I found the difference in output angle where XPG2 is slightly narrower making it better for throw, I guess...

The reason for asking is I want to mod my Solarforce Pro-1 head and I'm trying to figure out which LED to use... leave original XRE, only stipple a reflector as I hate those rings in the beam... or XPE R3 or XPE2 R3... or XPG R5 or XPG2 R5... maybe even XML U2 with shaved off dome... so many LED possibilities... to be used with KD V2 driver, either 1.5A or 3A, depends on which LED is chosen...

Anyone has any idea what throw numbers one could expect from different LEDs ??? If original head was able to throw 300 meters, what throw could be expected from XPG R5 at 1.5A or XML U2 at 3Amps ??? I definitely want to have a good throw, maybe not the same distance but punch some lumens at the same time...


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## AnAppleSnail (Dec 30, 2012)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

Check the test temperature and light distribution.


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## ElectronGuru (Dec 30, 2012)

*How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

+1, Cree changed the temp/lumen scale on new LEDs and has not rescaled older models.


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## Tiresius (Dec 30, 2012)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

The XP-G2 is an amazing thrower. But only in a reflector it is...Behind an aspheric, it lacks the throw potential the XR-E has. You'll find that the XP-G2 can be pushed harder than the XP-E2. IIRC, XP-G2 works best at 2.5a but needs an insane amount of heatsinking. Any further will result in more heat and dramatic lumen sag in a short amount of time.

You'll get a whole lot more throw in the XP-G2 if you push it a little harder than the original XP-G. Not too sure on lumens, though.


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## SimulatedZero (Dec 30, 2012)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

Hm, if you went with an XM-L I would just De-Dome it straight instead of shaving the dome, but that's just my personal preference. I would see the XP-E2 being the best thrower out of those options (except *maybe* a hard driven XR-E). If you drive the XP-E hard enough you can pump out around 400 lumens. The other best option I see is to De-Dome a new XM-L2 U2 and drive it at 3.5 amps or maybe even 4, but that would require a different driver. It would be a burst light only and you would have to do some serious heatsinking. With proper heatsinking you could probably get several minutes of constant on, but don't quote me on that. 

There are a lot of options here, I guess it depends on what you are looking for. What are your goals in terms of hotspot size and throw here?


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## The_Driver (Dec 30, 2012)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

May throw would be a de-domed XP-E2, but the Hotspot will be tiny. If you drive it hard enough you will triple or even quadruple the lux...


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## hiuintahs (Dec 30, 2012)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*



ElectronGuru said:


> +1, Cree changed the temp/lumen scale on new LEDs and has not rescaled older models.



Yep, I made a table comparing the XP-G, XP-G2, and the XM-L and did a little interpolating to match all at the same temperature.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...hts-to-XP-G2&p=4085472&highlight=#post4085472
post #18


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## Tana (Dec 31, 2012)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

I didn't pay attention to temp while producing output... well the increase is there, it's just matter opinion if it's worth ordering something to replace things you already have on stock...

So for this mod I'm thinking about dedomed XML... reflector should stay smooth unless I have rings or artifacts in the beam that I can not stand... I have XML U2 on hand but am thinking about ordering few LEDs (like triple XPE2 and few XPG2 R5) from Cutter so why not throw XML2 as well... it is slightly brighter than XML U2 (someone compared them like XML U4 would be about XML2 U2), it can withstand more amperage safely so seems like a good choice for what I have in mind... So dedomed (or just cut as closer as possible to LED as to still have some kind of protection for it) driven at 4.5A (KDv2 3-mode 50mA low, no memory, hi-med-lo)... so we're talking about 1200+ lumens OTF from Masterpiece Pro-1 head (I have UCL for it from FlashlightLens) with huge reflector... Battery to be used is AW 3100mAh so voltage sag should not be too big... this is more for show-off than for practical use (I have Hounddog XML for the real use)...

But this involves some serious mod to the pill, as MPP-1 pill is pure aluminum, thin and light... probably will have to do brass pill but to use all the space for metal to metal contact... that's the hardest part as I have to go to my friends workshop and pretty much snipe the chance to use lathe but it's doable...

So how does it sound, XML2 U2 driven at 4.5A on better heatsink in head/host like MPP-1 on AW 3100mAh ??? Should be quite bright and still throw some serious distance at the same time...

Thank you all for help... oh, I just realized that I would need to mod Solarforce S8 tailcap with McClicky to withstand 4.5A...


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## SimulatedZero (Dec 31, 2012)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

Sounds like it will be a nice thrower for sure. Just remember that you will have to polish the dome if you decide to cut it instead of removing it. The only thing I could see better would be to run a second AW cell in series to account for the heavy load, but you'll be fine for short bursts so it's whatever. Post up some beam shots when you get it done.


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## JustinTime (Dec 31, 2012)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

which lights are using the xpg2 r5?


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## enomosiki (Jan 1, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*



JustinTime said:


> which lights are using the xpg2 r5?



4Sevens, EagleTac, ThruNite, Jetbeam, Olight, ArmyTek and Klarus, to name a few.


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## JustinTime (Jan 1, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*



enomosiki said:


> 4Sevens, EagleTac, ThruNite, Jetbeam, Olight, ArmyTek and Klarus, to name a few.



Ah, sorry for the dumb question. I saw Armytek I think. The 4sevens looked like they were still advertising xpg r5. Now, I just went back and looked; I was looking at their old site. I didn't read the print at the top stating they'd moved. My mistake.


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## jorn (Jan 1, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

I did try different leds in the mp-1 reflector a while ago (xp-g,xp-e,xm-l) with no sucsess. The reflector is really really deep, optimised for the narrow angle of the xr-e. I had a hardtime trying to get the leds mounted into focus in the reflector. And just about any led looked worse or not worth it. Anything will look abit funky in this superdeep reflector. A lot of lumens are going into a really bright corona with a xp or xm led. I ended up putting the mp-1 back in stock condition. Hmm, but now im thinking about maby driving it harder  

Got a sab modded fandy with a dedomed xm-l. And when i hold the mp-1 reflector over it (as well centered as i can), it looks like this.






Stepped down so you can see whats going on in the hotspot/corona area.


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## Tana (Jan 2, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

I might try to stipple the reflector a bit to smoothen out the beam... I'm just wondering if it would still throw like 200m or more...

So the updates... I have make drawings on how modded pill should look like, I gotta cut at certain point, drill the whole alu pill in the middle 16.9mm (basically width of driver area) and then make brass pill that will be longer and better fit to the body of L2T and then combine both together... I should be able to get to lathe in next 6-7 days and drill the pill and make brass pill...

I also ordered XML T6 mounted on 18mm COPPER star from DX... I'm gonna reflow XML2 I have on order from Cutter on it and then shave it as closer to base as possible then polish (I tried on old burned dome "my" method - polishing with toothpaste - I remembered we used to polish old cellphone glass/plastic this way and results are amazing)... anyway... so much for heatsink and XML... Also need KDv2 3.05A drivers with low mode on 50mA so I can add 4ea chips for total of 4.5A...

I ordered everything on 31st of Dec... so it will be a long wait until everything arrive from China and Australia... :-(


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## Tana (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

Where would be possible to find a driver that supports 3-9V (or anywhere between 3.7-8.4V) and provide constant 3A to the LED, one mode or three mode (hi-med-lo)... I thought such thing doesn't exist...

I was thinking about even going with MT-G2 LED on this one as below driver apparently can push it hard enough to provide almost 2000 lumens (but that LED is SO EXPENSIVE... plus I only see it at cutter and they are horrible with CS so far, waiting for 14 days on my order and no updates and full ignore of my three emails I sent for updates):

http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S005296

I'm guessing this would be the only available driver that could push monster LEDs hard and support 2xLiIon (or 3xLiIon)...

I have this driver... 19mm diameter so it's doable, I would avoid using contact spring and go with direct contact with host inner piece (like OR Triple-XPG or Malkoff modules are except this would be optimized for Solarforce L2T body so no narrowing of the bottom of the pill)... that would leave me with small gap but no big deal...

Anyone else knows a good buck driver that can run XML2 U2 LED with constant 3A (or 4A)... single mode or two mode or three mode as long as it turn HIGH every time you turn it on...


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## Tana (Jan 31, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*



jorn said:


> I did try different leds in the mp-1 reflector a while ago (xp-g,xp-e,xm-l) with no sucsess. The reflector is really really deep, optimised for the narrow angle of the xr-e. I had a hardtime trying to get the leds mounted into focus in the reflector. And just about any led looked worse or not worth it. Anything will look abit funky in this superdeep reflector. A lot of lumens are going into a really bright corona with a xp or xm led. I ended up putting the mp-1 back in stock condition. Hmm, but now im thinking about maby driving it harder
> 
> Got a sab modded fandy with a dedomed xm-l. And when i hold the mp-1 reflector over it (as well centered as i can), it looks like this.
> 
> ...



So you got me worried a little while I was waiting for different items (XML2, KDv2 driver, LATHE, etc...) but I finally managed to pull it together...

IT WORKED !!! I'VE CREATED A MONSTER !!!

Will try to update pics of final product but finally I managed to cut original aluminum pill, machine custom from brass, chickened out and used XML U2 1C from my newly acquired Solarforce M3 head (and saving XML2 U2 I have for that head that I will finish in the future)... as for beam, I had EXACTLY the same intensity and rings when I first installed original reflector... then I figured out that the hole was too narrow for light to go thru so I carved it wider with my exacto knife carefully to where it's about 10-12mm wide (I can see POS and NEG wires soldered on PCB now thru it) and the beam that I got was the same as XRE, only a little bigger and more intense...

Then I SHAVED the XML and got something that's not completely ROUND but even more intense and tighter hotspot... The night just arrived at my place so I'm going in an hour or two with my friend to test it "in the field"...

Anyway, stay tuned for some pics of final product... I'm more than happy with it... next step will probably be installation of TWO more AMC7135 chips for total of 3.8A for even more lux...

Oh, and the heat-management at 3 amps - piece a cake... it gets warm maybe 3-4 minutes after turned on... and I held it for a while, didn't tick time but no heat issues... the head and the body are receiving their share of heat to dissipate... couldn't be happier...


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## Tana (Jan 31, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

So to make MPP1 XML friendly, you need to get rid of flat part at the bottom of the reflector...






And fully assembled it looks like this, from business end:






This is my new favorite thrower:






This is a custom pill I made from brass on lathe (no previous machining experience, 2nd time on lathe in 2-3 days period):






Some shots combined with part of original aluminum pill that still serves as centering/housing part for the bottom of the reflector (LED was still in original shape, not shaved... shaving came like 4 minutes later after I realised that XML has the same hotspot as XRE had - some slight shadow inside which I never liked - shaving got rid of it and made hotspot smaller and more intense):
















Here the original part of aluminum pill is screwed to center the reflector and from this point the pill is just inserted inside, then body screwed over it... I had LUCK and fit is perfect, basically the pill is what touches the host body, I used spring just for fun... and I have 1/10 of a milimeter of gap - hehehe... pure LUCK...











So the original plan was to use Arctic Alumina and glue aluminum threaded part of original pill with custom made one and make it one part that screws into head, like original used to... also, the plan was to cover area on LED PCB with same stuff and make it nice and white - glossy... also, I wanted to use AA again to cover the driver and not have any circuit/part of it exposed... after I realised that everything was perfect fit (don't even need insulators above wires as I have like 1/2 of a milimeter from POS and NEG around LED to reflector that is secured by aluminum pill), I decided not to epoxy ANYTHING thus leaving it easy to mod down the time...

Since I already shaved the LED and got REALLY TIGHT HOTSPOT with no shadow (regular domed LED had same shadowy thing inside hotspot like XRE used to have) the only thing I could improve in the close future is to push it around 3.8 or even 4.2 Amps for extra lux (the glass is UCL from flashlightlens for more output)... and maybe XML2 U3 when it comes out, shaved again... by shaving I lost perfectly circled hotspot, got somewhat like "galaxy looking" hotspot but no shadow inside and very very bright and tight...

Compared with Hound Dog XML 1D from the very first run (first serial production after few prototypes with different tints were made), this thing has much tighter and much more intense hotspot... DEFINITELY more throw (but then again, Malkoff is pushed at around 2A with great buck driver... this is 3A linear)...

Now I need to learn how to make good comparable beamshots... sigh... never done one...


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## Tana (Jan 31, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

Hm... admins, could you please move this to Homemade and Modified Flashlights Discussion... sorry for trouble and thanks...


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## jorn (Jan 31, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

Nice work. Cant wait for some beamshots. Now to deside if i want to carve out the flat bottom of the reflector and have another go at it :thinking: 
Nice pictures. Dont think getting some fine beamshots will be hard for you.

For some beamshots, use a tripod or put the camera on something. Dont hold the camera in your hands, and use the self release function or remote control if you got it. That will take care of camera shaking, and pitcures gets sharper. If you want to compare different lights, you need a camera that allows manual settings so the camera wont auto adjust to the different lights.


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## Tana (Feb 13, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

Upgraded MPP1-XML on the LEFT, Malkoff HoundDog XML (gen 1) on the RIGHT:






Upgraded MPP1-XML on the LEFT, original Solarforce MPP1 (XRE) on the RIGHT:






Rings that were present in original XRE setup are almost impossible to notice now (only on short distance white wall hunting), there is no doughnut hole above 10+ yards against white wall as with XRE setup (even if XRE doughnut is probably hard to notice in the first place), the hot spot is only SLIGHTLY larger but appears much brighter than XRE...

Comparing this mod with Hound Dog XML is not fair, actually... 3A in smooth reflector versus 2A in orange peel is way off when directly comparing... the spill is about the same, the throw is completely on MPP1-XML side with super-tight-n-bright hotspot... HEAT MANAGEMENT is on MPP1-XML side as well... Hound Dog gets warmer faster and stays warmer (hot?) during prolonged use on it's own on the floor of my room... Now I understand I'm nowhere close with quality of the item compared to "holy grail" Hound Dog XML but I was more than happy with the results that I got out of this...

I don't have actual lux or lumens readings but like to round this up for people around me around 800 lumens... hope I'm not way off... (oh, the lens is from flashligthlens.com so it's UCL)...


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## jorn (Feb 14, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

nice pics.
I dont even think it's fair to compare the stock masterpice pro-1 with xr-e, with a hound dog xm-l. Blows it away with ~50 000 lux vs the hound dog with ~20 000 lux.


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## Tana (Feb 18, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

Oh, come spring and take away this smog and fog at night... I want to do outside beamshots with these three contenders... 100m and hopefully 200m (yards)...


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## SimulatedZero (Apr 11, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

The beam on your MPP1 looks pretty top notch in your photo above. Is that dedomed?

Edit: Never mind, went back and re-read that you shaved the dome off. That's what I get for being on CPF at 4 in the morning. That beam turned out a lot better than I was expecting. Can't wait to see some distance shots if you have the ability.


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## Tana (Apr 11, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

It's not dedomed... it's shaved as seen on pics above... And I was rather surprised with outcome, to be honest...
It was ringy until I widened reflector bottom around the LED... now it's as closest to perfect as SMO can be...


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## Kestrel (Apr 11, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*



Tana said:


> Hm... admins, could you please move this to Homemade and Modified Flashlights Discussion... sorry for trouble and thanks...



Only just saw this today & moved the thread.


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## Tana (Apr 11, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*



Kestrel said:


> Only just saw this today & moved the thread.



It's never too late, right ??? :thumbsup:


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## Kestrel (Apr 11, 2013)

*Re: How is XPG2 brighter than XPG? Or XPE2 vs XPE?*

We only try to stay up-to-date on threads started by known troublemakers, lol.


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