# The elusive smart charger for Sanyo Eneloop AA/AAA batts



## ~seagull~ (Mar 19, 2012)

Please don't tell me to go look it up. I've been searching and reading online until my eyes are bleeding, and I just haven't got it yet. 

I am looking for a 2-cell (4-cell if necessary) charger with independent channels--
doesn't have to charge both sizes at once--
100-240V is a must--
folding plug prongs for travel--

Seems like it should be so simple, but I'm finding about 4-6 choices at a wide range of prices, and am concerned that I don't know enough to choose.

Does a charger have to be closely matched to the Eneloop batts in some way? (eg: listed for 1000 or 1500 mAh, or any other specs?)

There are 4-5 that I am looking at which seem to meet these criteria, but I am new here and not sure whether posting links to amazon are permitted for purpose of descriptions.

I would love some help here. Thanks all.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Mar 19, 2012)

maha mh-c9000 and be all set (it doesn't have folding prongs so you need to skip that)



http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=423


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## dusty99 (Mar 19, 2012)

*Sony BCG34HRE4KN*

Available from Amazon. $30 shipped.


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## Mr Happy (Mar 19, 2012)

~seagull~ said:


> Please don't tell me to go look it up. I've been searching and reading online until my eyes are bleeding, and I just haven't got it yet.
> 
> I am looking for a 2-cell (4-cell if necessary) charger with independent channels--
> doesn't have to charge both sizes at once--
> ...



You don't give your location (vital piece of information!), but maybe you are in the USA?

If so, this is not hard to explain. There is almost no good choice for a smart compact charger for eneloops in the USA. If you asked me (you just did), I couldn't tell you one that meets your specifications and is currently readily available to purchase.

Yes, it should be simple, but it isn't. Unless you live somewhere outside the US, in which case you may have options. Canada, Europe, Japan, the far East, you are golden. USA--forget it. The US market is only interested in cheap, slow, overnight chargers.

If you can relax your requirements a bit, the Maha C401FS would be a close fit, but you'll have to live with a wall wart, and you'll have to give up on the worldwide voltage unless you pay extra for an international version.


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## Mr Happy (Mar 19, 2012)

~seagull~ said:


> I am looking for a 2-cell (4-cell if necessary) charger with independent channels--
> doesn't have to charge both sizes at once--
> 100-240V is a must--
> folding plug prongs for travel--



If you can manage to find one the Panasonic BQ-321 would be an exact fit. But I don't think they make them any more.


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## Aquanaut (Mar 19, 2012)

I just did a search on Amazon and they have them. It includes 4 AA Panasonic batteries for ~$31.


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## entercpf (Mar 20, 2012)

~seagull~ said:


> Please don't tell me to go look it up. I've been searching and reading online until my eyes are bleeding, and I just haven't got it yet.
> 
> I am looking for a 2-cell (4-cell if necessary) charger with independent channels--
> doesn't have to charge both sizes at once--
> ...



Sounds like you are looking for Eneloop MQR06. The best combo that Sanyo currently offers.


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## davidt1 (Mar 20, 2012)

dusty99 said:


> *Sony BCG34HRE4KN*
> 
> Available from Amazon. $30 shipped.



+1

I replaced my Sanyo charger with this one.


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## salimoneus (Mar 20, 2012)

I too went with the latest Sony BCG-34HRE and highly recommend it, very difficult to to top this unit in terms of features and value.

Nothing elusive about it, it just takes some research and reading reviews. Worked for me.


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## U235 (Mar 20, 2012)

I use a la crosse bc9009, has worked great for years. The newer model is bc1000 and can be found on amazon or other retailers for $60.


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## ~seagull~ (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks to all for your suggestions. I really do need all of the few criteria I listed for traveling. The Panasonic has a curious review which suggests it is dedicated to Panasonic batts only. The Sanyo charger unfortunately requires charging in pairs and has fairly bad & credible review due to this. I do live in the USA. The Sony is a definite possibility at the higher price range I'm considering. I am puzzling over whether I need to spend so much, as there are a couple of other choices:

Globe Trotter Charger for AA/AAA with 4 high capacity truCELL AA Rechargable NIMH 2700 series batteries for HP Photosmart camera...$20
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00460XHYG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&m=A2QHBM8MEN9W65
Sanyo Eneloop 2-pack AA NIMH charger...$13

So does a charger have to be matched in some way to the brand of these mAh batteries?


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## Mr Happy (Mar 20, 2012)

The Panasonic works fine with eneloops. I own it it and have tried it and it charges them nicely. It is now my preferred travel charger. 

In its favor is a really solid quality of construction. Some cheaper chargers can seem really flimsy.


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## Scenic (Mar 20, 2012)

The Sony Sony BCG34HRD4KN is also good and cheaper than the Sony BCG34HRE4KN. 17.99 on amazon.


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## ecrbattery (Mar 20, 2012)

The Panasonic BQ-321 and the BQ-390 would fit all your requirement for a travel charger and work great with Sanyo eneloop batteries.
The BQ-321 really has a very high quality construction of solid and smooth plastic. The only other charger that come close in quality is the Apple AA charger but that only charge 2x AA. They are hard to come by because some collector keep snatching them up 

Here is a couple photo of the BQ-321 and what it look like next to the other smart chargers:


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## Aquanaut (Mar 20, 2012)

Most people are afraid to order from Asia, but I frequently order from eBay using PayPal for payments and have not had any problems after dozens of orders. Just make sure that the seller has over 99% positive feedback. PayPal pretty much reduces your chances of getting stiffed.

The preamble was to propose ordering a Sanyo NC-MQR06 4 channel independent charger for $18.50 including shipping from Asia. See the complete specs of the charger here:

http://www.eneloop.info/products/chargers/sets-with-mqr06.html

I found this deal from a South Korean dealer and I would not hesitate ordering the charger from him if I did not already own half a dozen chargers. This one dealer has 17,513 orders with a 99.4% positive feedback. This is the kind of dealer to place orders. To find him, just search for "Sanyo NC-MQR06" within eBay.

The charger satisfies all of the OP's requirements.


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## ~seagull~ (Mar 20, 2012)

ecrbattery & aquanaut, and to everyone on this forum--you rock! Thanks to both of you for your great recommendations.


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## Kestrel (Mar 20, 2012)

ecrbattery said:


>



ecrbattery, that is quite an impressive charger collection.


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## ecrbattery (Mar 21, 2012)

Thanks Kestrel. It make me sad every time I see the chargers collection because most of these smart chargers were widely available at all retailer in the US. We make a major step forward with the LSD batteries but the lack of smart chargers bring us two steps back 

I just browse Amazon looking for good value smart charger. It does not look good.
The Panasonic DMW-LZACKIT Accessory Kit (with the BQ-321 charger) is no longer available for $7.88
The Sony Cycle Energy BCG34HLD2RN Kit price has more than double from $5.49 to $11.48

There are some promising find:
MQRO6 quick charger with 4 Sanyo eneloop XX for $34.95 (good deal for the smart charger and the 2500mAh eneloop)
Sanyo NC-MQN05U charger for $11.15 (smart but slow and only work with 120V AC power)

I do recommend getting the Sanyo NC-MQR06. Here is my post regarding the NC-MQR06:



ecrbattery said:


> NC-MQR06 on the left and the NC-MQN06 on the right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ~seagull~ (Mar 21, 2012)

Any comments on either of these two options?

http://www.zimbio.com/Rechargeable+.../Buy+Cheap+Price+Sanyo+Eneloop+2+Pack+AA+NiMH

http://www.buy.com/prod/internation...4-trucell-aa-rechargable-ni-mh/217598712.html


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## ecrbattery (Mar 21, 2012)

The first one is the Sanyo MDR02 which is very good and have reasonable charge time. I thought Sanyo discontinued this model long time ago but I am glad that it is still available. Very good deal with 2 AA eneloop for just $12.44 



The second one didn't list any charging current at all on the label.


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## ~seagull~ (Mar 21, 2012)

ecrbattery said:


> The first one is the Sanyo MDR02 which is very good and have reasonable charge time. I thought Sanyo discontinued this model long time ago but I am glad that it is still available. Very good deal with 2 AA eneloop for just $12.44
> 
> 
> Whoops--Sorry. I chose the wrong link. Thanks for your comment ecr.
> ...


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## ~seagull~ (Mar 21, 2012)

ecrbattery said:


> The first one is the Sanyo MDR02 which is very good and have reasonable charge time....
> The second one didn't list any charging current at all on the label.



Whoops--Sorry. I chose the wrong link. (I also goofed up on my first reply to your post) Thanks for your comment ecr. Here's a better link for the second charger.

http://www.amazon.com/Batteries-Capa.../dp/B00460XHYG


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## madecov (Mar 21, 2012)

Years ago I purchased an 'IMPACT" brand travel charger from B&H photo. It came with some cheap batteries. It has a fold out plug and individual monitoring. It says for 1-4 batteris. It is a fast charger and my eneloops get pretty hot with it. I only use it as a compact travel charger. Otherwise at home I use a Maha.


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## dusty99 (Mar 22, 2012)

I have that Sanyo. As ECR said, it's a good one. The real issue is that when I travel I may burn through 2-4 batteries in my camera and 4-8 in my underwater flash daily, so charging two at a time for the next day makes little sense. That's why I recommended a faster 4-place charger like the Sony BCG34HREKN. It's fast, but not too fast, charges individually, and does four at a time.



~seagull~ said:


> Any comments on either of these two options?
> 
> http://www.zimbio.com/Rechargeable+.../Buy+Cheap+Price+Sanyo+Eneloop+2+Pack+AA+NiMH
> 
> http://www.buy.com/prod/internation...4-trucell-aa-rechargable-ni-mh/217598712.html


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## Al Thumbs (May 9, 2012)

*Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

Greetings, CPF denizens,

I am at amazed at the depth of interest and knowledge here on the subject of flashlights, and have learned a lot from recent lurking. I have ordered a Zebra 1xAA headlamp for an upcoming trip, and I'd like to ask a few questions about rechargeable cells. 

I use AA cells around the house for the computer mouse, bluetooth keyboard, electric toothbrush, various remote controls, toys and smoke detectors. I see that Eneloops are very popular here.
Eneloops seem easy to find on the web; what's a good price for a cell?
Are there re-branded Eneloops available? I've seen the term "Duraloop" here.
Who is a trusted seller? Who's got good deals? Who to avoid?
What charger do I need? Many here seem to use the Maha C9000. It's around fifty bucks, the price of a LOT of single-use cells. If I didn't buy the Maha, what's the next step down? What about the Eneloop bundled chargers?
Do Eneloops come in AAA?
Lotsa questions. Thanks in advance.
Al T.


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## tickled (May 9, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

Assuming you're in USA:

1. I'd say $2.50/AA cell ($10/4-pack) and $2/AAA cell ($8/4-pack) for second generation "Eneloop 1500" is a fair standard price. If you can find sales to get the price under $2 per AA/$1.50 per AAA, you'd be doing good.

2. Duracell Pre-Charged/StayCharged batteries made in Japan are re-brands. As are Sony CycleEnergy LSD batteries. The overpriced Apple branded batteries are also suspected re-brands. There are others.

3. Amazon sells 8-packs for $20 and offer free shipping. There are plenty of other retailers selling for the same price.

4. If you don't want to pay for a luxury charger like the C9000, I'd look at what's available on a certain auction site and buy one of the bundled quick charger and battery packs available from Asian or European sellers. North American kits are not sold with quick chargers.

5. Yes, for slightly less than the cost of AA size.


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## hellokitty[hk] (May 9, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



> 2. Duracell Pre-Charged/StayCharged batteries made in Japan are re-brands. As are Sony CycleEnergy LSD batteries. The overpriced Apple branded batteries are also suspected re-brands. There are others.


Only the white top ones.


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## dc38 (May 9, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



Al Thumbs said:


> Greetings, CPF denizens,
> 
> I am at amazed at the depth of interest and knowledge here on the subject of flashlights, and have learned a lot from recent lurking. I have ordered a Zebra 1xAA headlamp for an upcoming trip, and I'd like to ask a few questions about rechargeable cells.
> 
> ...



In response to all of your questions; provided there is a Costco wholesale nearby and you can get your hands on a membership, hop on in! I managed to get my hands on a bundle package of 4 cell charger with 8AA's and 4AAA's for around 20$ after tax (for whatever reason prices differ where you go. mine were on sale from the original 26$)


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## Jackasper (May 10, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

The Eneloop chargers work great for someone in your position (just getting into rechargeables). I used my 4 bay charger for quite a while untill I decided to start monitoring each individual cell. At that point I had to get a different charger that would charge individual cells rather than _pairs_ of cells. Thus, my only gripe about the Eneloop chargers (to my knowledge) is that they only charge in pairs and not individually. Again, this is to my knowledge... Also, +1 on Costco's deal.


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## ikeyballz (May 10, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

How many batteries are you looking to be using at once? I recommend the wall charging 2 port or the USB 2 port charger + batteries if you're not using too many AAs. They're individually monitoring chargers.


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## Erzengel (May 10, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

There are many different Eneloop chargers from Sanyo, which are available in bundles with batteries for a decent price (at least here in Germany). Only the MQN04 is a bad charger, because it charges every battery for 16 hours, no matter what the charge state of the battery is.
http://www.eneloop.info/products/chargers.html
There are more sophisticated chargers with battery maintenance functions, but if You reduce the lifetime of one Eneloop by 200 charging cycles because of lacking maintenance, You just loose 25 cent per battery. Therefore an expensive charger must save many batteries until it's worth the investment.


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## Al Thumbs (May 10, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



ikeyballz said:


> How many batteries are you looking to be using at once? I recommend the wall charging 2 port or the USB 2 port charger + batteries if you're not using too many AAs. They're individually monitoring chargers.



Will likely be rotating 16 cells through various devices, but not rapidly. 

Al T.


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## zenbeam (May 10, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



Jackasper said:


> The Eneloop chargers work great for someone in your position (just getting into rechargeables). I used my 4 bay charger for quite a while untill I decided to start monitoring each individual cell. At that point I had to get a different charger that would charge individual cells rather than _pairs_ of cells. Thus, my only gripe about the Eneloop chargers (to my knowledge) is that they only charge in pairs and not individually. Again, this is to my knowledge... Also, +1 on Costco's deal.



If I may piggy-back in an eneloop question of my own ;

I have the 4 bay eneloop charger that requires you to charge in pairs. But to what extent, if any, is it necessary that the pair be "equally discharged"? In other words, can I pair up a nearly depleted eneloop with one that is say only 50% depleted and charge them until the indicators shows them both as charged?


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## hbr (May 10, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



hellokitty[hk] said:


> Only the white top ones.



Even then you can't be sure. Sony CycleEnergy LSD AA from the local Sony shop have white tops, but they are 
made in China.


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## Magic Matt (May 10, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

I have the C9000 charger. It was WELL worth the money. I can say with absolute certainty that it has more than paid for itself in the number of batteries I've saved, which previously were being slowly damaged by cheap chargers I'd previously been using, and also in apparently "knackered" cells that running a couple of cycles has magically recovered. I may buy a second C9000 even though it's expensive, as I don't trust other chargers to do the job right any more.


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## tam17 (May 10, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

As an answer to OP's question #4:
the only worthy bundled charger is MQR06, it has quick and standard charge option and it charges cells individually (mix of AA/AAA is possible), check out its specs against the other Sanyo chargers. Battery maintenance feature is nice to have, but your Eneloops will feel just as good if you discharge them occasionally in your flashlight and charge them fully afterwards.


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## Al Thumbs (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

tam 17, the only non-ebay source is Amazon, which lists one bundle with the carger and 4 XX 
Eneloops. Is that a fair price? And can I use the XX cells in common applications, like a Zebralight 1xAA headlamp?


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## Al Thumbs (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



Magic Matt said:


> I have the C9000 charger. It was WELL worth the money. I can say with absolute certainty that it has more than paid for itself in the number of batteries I've saved, which previously were being slowly damaged by cheap chargers I'd previously been using, and also in apparently "knackered" cells that running a couple of cycles has magically recovered. I may buy a second C9000 even though it's expensive, as I don't trust other chargers to do the job right any more.



That's a convincing testimonial. I feel like I'll have to become educated on cell charging. I don't really know much about it.

Al T.


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## Wrend (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

I picked up a second MH-C9000 not all that long ago myself, to "work" on more cells at once.

For general charging, the main advantage of the C9000 is that it charges cells individually, so that they're charged the right amount, and more evenly so that when they're used together, they also discharge more evenly. This goes a long way to maintain the life potential of your cells.

To put things in perspective, one Eneloop AA cell equals about 1000 name brand alkaline AA cells in cumulative lifetime capacity potential, but of course to get the most from them you have to take good care of them.


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## dc38 (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



zenbeam said:


> If I may piggy-back in an eneloop question of my own ;
> 
> I have the 4 bay eneloop charger that requires you to charge in pairs. But to what extent, if any, is it necessary that the pair be "equally discharged"? In other words, can I pair up a nearly depleted eneloop with one that is say only 50% depleted and charge them until the indicators shows them both as charged?



I'll give it a shot and get back to you, Zen. I've been curious myself, I just don't want the charger to turn out being dumb and overcharging one 50% cell just to bring a 10% cell up to par...But being as we are CPF, I'm willing to take that risk :X If it doesn't work, send me a new cell please! lol


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## dc38 (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

Starting the charge now. One battery is near depleted at .88V, the other is near full at 1.22V, so we shall see...


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## zenbeam (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



dc38 said:


> Starting the charge now. One battery is near depleted at .88V, the other is near full at 1.22V, so we shall see...



I appreciate your risking life and limb for the cause! :naughty:


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## Wrend (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

The problem is that you'll overcharge the full cell or the lower cell won't fully charge. (It depends how your specific charger terminates the charge.) Then when you go to use the cells the lower charged cell runs the risk of being damaged by being driven into reverse by the still full cell.

You can charge cells in series at a slow charge rate (0.1C/h or less - about 200mA for Eneloop AAs), and it won't significantly damage the overcharged cells. The lower the rate, the better. Still not great for them though.

Eneloops are pretty hearty, so they can put up with a bit of abuse better than some cells. But why not get the most out of your investment? You can find more basic (less expensive) independent port chargers.


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## dc38 (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

Wrend, You are absolutely right. It SEEMED (unscientifically of course) that the charge of one cell was subsidizing the other cell in my experience. One of the cells (the higher charge) came off the charger at 1.52 volts, the other at a health 1.42. I have a bad feeling that if I had continued charging them for any longer, the cells would be permanently and irreversibly damaged :/. So from this one trial, I'll just say to refrain from charging two unbalanced cells just in case...(Since I don't have many multi celled lights, 2 xenos, I just completely deplete each cell until I can charge two at once. Problem solved!


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## Magic Matt (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



Al Thumbs said:


> That's a convincing testimonial. I feel like I'll have to become educated on cell charging. I don't really know much about it.



I don't really know that much about it either - I can see why this charger is also called a Wizard!

I've just done what others have told me to with it - ie do a quick cycle on new batteries to break them in before use, and the results have been that even the cheaper cells have worked much better. I've generally bought Eneloops, but before I knew there was such a difference I used to buy pretty much any old thing. This charger can analyse the batteries and tells me what capacity they actually deliver, rather than what's on the label, and in some cases it's very surprising! I don't fully understand why, but I've also been told to match batteries of similar capacities together, and it works out better when I do. I've also stopped dumping perfectly functional cells by identifying one single bad cell in a set of 4, whereas before I would have assumed they were all destined for the recycling box. Also as I sit here, I have some cells from a wildlife charity that they use in their wildlife cameras that have been performing badly, and just be running the refresh cycle, then break in, then refresh again individual cells have improved between 30% and 70% - that's around 60 AA cells they now wont need to replace (all were destined to be recycled, only 7 out of the set have so far been condemned as knackered).

I think what has impressed me most is that it's made a difference to my cells, but without me having to become a _cell nerd_, if that makes sense. I've learnt more about charging cells because of the results I've got from charger, rather than having to learn about cells first.

I'm sure there are probably other chargers out there that do the same things, but I wouldn't swap this one for anything, I couldn't be more pleased with it.


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## tickled (May 11, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

I have a C9000 and MQH03 (bundled Sanyo 2 hour charger with 4 independent channels) and both seem to perform well. I would not consider it a handicap if I only had the latter.


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## zenbeam (May 12, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



dc38 said:


> I'll just say to refrain from charging two unbalanced cells just in case...(Since I don't have many multi celled lights, 2 xenos, I just completely deplete each cell until I can charge two at once. Problem solved!



dc38 - I'm glad you didn't fry your charger, batteries or home in search of truth! Excellent advice on the discharge idea. I had pondered that already. I have a 2xAA light, so that one is easy to handle, but the rest of my AA and AAA lights are single battery lights. So when one finally does deplete, it makes perfect sense to just discharge another fully - then charge them together. 

Besides, running a light until discharge is yet another opportunity to get some use out of it and fiddle with ceiling bounce or going to the restroom without turning on the "real lights", etc.... lol. Okay.. I _did_ just really say that. :wave:


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## Trevtrain (May 12, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



tickled said:


> I have a C9000 and MQH03 (bundled Sanyo 2 hour charger with 4 independent channels) and both seem to perform well. I would not consider it a handicap if I only had the latter.



Well, each to their own of course tickled. :wave:

I've no doubt the MQH03 does the job but if you ever use your cells in series (a 2 x AA gps or 3 x AAA light for instance) your C9000 helps you to better select cells of matched capacity. 

It is easy to send at least one cell into reverse polarity in a series setup, especially if you or someone else in your family tends to run flashlights until they are completely dim. In this case it is almost certain that at least one of the cells has been subjected to reversal, which is very, very bad for its long-term prospects. :shakehead

The ability of the C9000 to test a cell for its actual capacity rather than the stated nominal rating means its possible to match cells evenly for a series use device. I have a couple of Sanyo USB chargers MDU01 (independent charging for each cell, delta V cutoff) that get regular use, but I still like to check each cell in the C9000 periodically to record its actual capacity. I like my USB chargers, but I personally *would *feel handicapped without the C9000. 

I guess for anyone who only ever uses single-cell devices it wouldn't matter.

Just my 2c.


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## Trevtrain (May 12, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



zenbeam said:


> dc38 Besides, running a light until discharge is yet another opportunity to get some use out of it and fiddle with ceiling bounce or going to the restroom without turning on the "real lights", etc.... lol. Okay.. I _did_ just really say that. :wave:



Yes zenbeam, I'm afraid you _did _just really say that - and in doing so, proved that you are indeed truly worthy of your "Flashaholic" status. :thumbsup:


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## dc38 (May 12, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

hahaha...my sentiments exactly


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## Al Thumbs (May 16, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

Thanks to all who answered. I learned a lot! I have ordered the Maha C9000 and some AA & AAA Eneloops from Thomas Distributing, will be looking for info on using that charger next week. 

What's the deal with new Eneloops? Use 'em until they are discharged, or do the Break In cycle right away?

Al T.

_Forgot to say- every time I read "Maha" in a post, a part of my mind answers, "Ah-ha?"_


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## Trevtrain (May 16, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

I'm sure you won't regret it Al Thumbs. :thumbsup: 

There should be an instruction sheet for your C9000 in the box. It gives you pretty much all you need to know. In the meantime you can type "Maha C9000 manual" into Google and get a PDF for a little light reading in advance if you like.

There are also plenty of threads in here by some very knowledgeable people who like to discuss the C9000 and all things battery related. I think I have read most of them at one time or other. Any of the posts by member "Silverfox" are well worth a read. (_No offence intended to other equally well qualified contributors._) 

Just watch the dates on the threads when you search though - there have apparently been few firmware revisions on this charger since it was released. The problems some members here have mentioned are likely only in the older versions. I've had my Maha for about 12 months and haven't experienced any of the issues that came up years ago.

As to breaking in the Eneloops. There appear to be any number of answers to that question. The Eneloop marketing department would say "just use 'em." I always do a refresh & analyse on mine. Some would say do a Break-In. Remember that the full Break-In cycle can take up to 40 hours to complete. That's a long time to wait when you have new toys to play with. :naughty:




Al Thumbs said:


> Thanks to all who answered. I learned a lot! I have ordered the Maha C9000 and some AA & AAA Eneloops from Thomas Distributing, will be looking for info on using that charger next week.


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## Wrend (May 16, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

Yeah, it's fine if you just want to use them and then charge them up normally, or charge them first before you use them. Just be sure to not use freshly charged cells with new ones since the new ones are only charged to about 75% capacity.

I personally make series sets of cells that only get used together, so I discharge all my cells first on the C9000, then do the break in on them to test them and match them up by their capacities. That's a bit much for the average user though.


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## Al Thumbs (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



Wrend said:


> I personally make series sets of cells that only get used together, so I discharge all my cells first on the C9000, then do the break in on them to test them and match them up by their capacities. That's a bit much for the average user though.



What is an easy-to-grasp definition of capacity? Is it different from cell to cell among Eneloops, rated at 2000maH? Does a cell's capacity change over the course of its life? How do you make sets, do you label and number? I guess one can get deeply into this!

Al T.


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## SilverFox (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

Hello Al,

Welcome to CPF.

Capacity is the cells ability to deliver a current over a period of time. In a perfect world a cell that had 2000 mAh of capacity and connected to a load of 500 ma would last 4 hours. Unfortunately, the world is not perfect and you actually get a little less than that.

Matching cells is done when you have multi cell applications. You don't want one cell to run out of capacity before the other, so matching on capacity gives you protection against that.

One way to match is to do a Break-In and compare the capacities reported at the end of that process. Another way to match is to figure out what load will be put on the cells, and use that as your discharge rate. Due to heat losses cell capacity will be reduced a little at higher currents.

When you finish your testing and have recorded all the capacities, you can then sort the cells according to their capacity. The closer they are in capacity, the better they will work in a multi cell application.

:devil: I am sorry to inform you that you have been misinformed... You can never get too deep into batteries and charging.  

Tom


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## Woodsroad (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

Greetings, Stored Energy Lovers,

FWIW, back in 2010, I read through the CandlePowerForum front-to-back before buying NiMH AA's. I'm a pro photographer and use AA's in all manner of gear, both high discharge, like strobes, to low-discharge, like radio slave units. Basically, the suggestions on the forum back then were the same as today: Eneloops have the best life expectancy and the best manufacturing QC. Other off-brand batteries are pretty much untested and unknown.

Good advice.

Charger advice was more varied, but folks seemed to like the LaCrosse charger (except for that one batch that tended to catch fire!) and it offered the best flexibility in terms of setting charge/discharge rates in an easy to read manner. On charging, there was all manner of advice: 1c is ok, .5c is best, yadda yadda yadda. I use a lot of SLA rechargables, though, and applied that knowledge to recharging NiMH's:
The lower the charge current, the longer the batteries will last.

So, as an experiment I ordered Eneloops, Powerizer 2600, Tenergy 2300 batteries and a LaCrosse 9009 charger. Batteries were cycled when new @ 200mah charge and 100mah discharge. Yes, it took a long time to cycle them all! The Eneloops were all at or above rated capacity. The Powerizer and Tenergy were all below rated capacity, mostly in the 2.0ah range. I marked a sample of 8 of each battery brand with the date and ah rating. The batteries went out into my gear bags and went to work. Most were well taken care of, but some were left on in strobes and discharged down pretty low. All batteries were promptly recharged on the LaCrosse charger at 200mah.

I also gave a set of Eneloops and an Eneloop 4-slot charger to my 10-year old daughter to use in her point-and-shoot camera.

Two years later, I have no dead batteries. I rechecked capacity ratings, and all had fallen an average of .15ah. None lower than .3 ah. Wow. That's not much, is it? The cheaper batteries have performed exactly as well as the Eneloops.

My daughter, who was not quite as careful with her batteries, ended up with four dead batteries after two years. Not a well-controlled experiment, but there's an anecdotal data point for you.

So, anyway, in my test once I got past the fact that the Powerizer and Tenergy batteries are 2ah, ~not~ 2.3 or 2.6, I was still left with the fact they performed exactly like the eneloops at, what? half the price?

A fresh order of Powerizer 2600, Tenergy and Eneloop 1500's arrived over the past week. I also bought two more Lacrosse BC700 chargers (bringing the LaCrosse total to 4) and a Tenergy TN160 for bulk charging (anyone know what the charge rate is on that unit?). The new batteries are getting cycled, rated and marked now. Right now, the Powerizers are all looking like they are 2.4 to 2.6ah capacity, so they are not the same batteries as they were two years ago. The sample size will be larger this time, 16 batteries of each type. They will go in to service alongside the existing stock of batteries.

I'll report back in two years.

If I was more obsessive-compulsive and had less work, I'd have colorful graphs and exact recharge cycle data for you. Oh well.

That is all.


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## Al Thumbs (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



SilverFox said:


> Capacity is the cells ability to deliver a current over a period of time. In a perfect world a cell that had 2000 mAh of capacity and connected to a load of 500 ma would last 4 hours. Unfortunately, the world is not perfect and you actually get a little less than that.



Is a 2000mAh cell rated as 2000mAh per hour?



> One way to match is to do a Break-In and compare the capacities reported at the end of that process. Another way to match is to figure out what load will be put on the cells, and use that as your discharge rate.



Is the load stated somewhere? Do you have to calculate or measure it?



> When you finish your testing and have recorded all the capacities, you can then sort the cells according to their capacity. The closer they are in capacity, the better they will work in a multi cell application.



How do you manage your cells? Labels? Notes?



> :devil: I am sorry to inform you that you have been misinformed... You can never get too deep into batteries and charging.



I do fear it much! Thanks for the info, Tom.

Al T.


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## Magic Matt (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

The label on cells can vary, but you'll see two figures. One is voltage, one is capacity. 
Eg 1.2V 2000mAh

The load is how much power you are drawing from the cell, so that depends on what you're using it for. A toy car for example may draw far more from a cell than an average flashlight (on these forums that may well be the other way around). The consequence is the more the load, the more you draw from the battery over a period of time, so the less time the battery will last. More load, shorter run time.

I manage my cells by writing on them with a CD pen. I give them a reference number, and then I have a spreadsheet that I keep a note of their capacity at any given time (when I remember to check it).
Eg.
Cell 13 - AA Eneloop - purchased Jan 2011
Jan 2011 - Capacity 2048mAh
Mar 2011 - Capacity 2012mAh
Jun 2011 - Capacity 2018mAh
Aug 2011 - Capacity 1990mAh

Every now and then I might do a capacity check on a batch, then match them up in the little containers they come with according to capacity. In one container here on the desk I have cells 12, 18, 22 and 23. All are Eneloops, and all around 2030mAh when tested.


I don't do this obsessively, I do it as and when I remember, or if I have something happening where I anticipate needing them, such as a holiday (where I'll want them in flashlights, camera flashes, CD player etc.)


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## Woodsroad (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



Magic Matt said:


> I don't do this obsessively, I do it as and when I remember, or if I have something happening where I anticipate needing them, such as a holiday (where I'll want them in flashlights, camera flashes, CD player etc.)



Don't fret, Matt, we know that you are not obsessive. 

Just having a really good battery charger and posting about it online doesn't make someone obsessive. Having a really good battery charger AND a label-maker AND posting about it online makes someone obsessive. 

And if you also get itchy teeth, and your fingers curl up a little when you think about buying even more batteries and testing them, then that makes you obsessive-compulsive.

Otherwise, you are OK. :thumbsup:


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## tickled (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

The Powerizer and Tenergy cells would not be low self discharge chemistry?


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## Woodsroad (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



tickled said:


> The Powerizer and Tenergy cells would not be low self discharge chemistry?



No, they are not. exactly how fast they self-discharge, I do not know. That would be a good thing to check on....I'll do it.
However, I have not had a problem rotating the 3 dozen AA's among several strobes and radios that get used on a semi-daily basis.
I might recharge batteries once a week, some batteries might sit in a case for weeks or even months before they are used. That's where the Eneloops go, where they are less likely to be used right away. Either way, I've never pulled out a dead box of batteries.

Good question, though, I'll keep tabs.


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## tandem (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



Al Thumbs said:


> Is a 2000mAh cell rated as 2000mAh per hour?



No, not quite. mAh stands for milli-Ampere hour, so you would never say 2000 mAh per hour but could say 2000 mA per hour. Clear?

If cells were able to deliver any current rate and deliver exactly their label capacity then a 2000 mAh (or 2 Amp hour) cell could deliver 2 amps for 1 hour, or as said above, half an amp for four hours.

As for load, it is what it is, and is determined by the device you are powering. If it is a flashlight, the load presented will vary if it has different output levels. There are different approaches to regulation - a constant current driver will maintain the same current draw from the cell(s) but voltage will change over the course of runtime.

Some cells deal with higher drain devices better than others. It turns out that rechargeable NiMH cells, especially the good ones like Eneloops, can pump out more current at a lower voltage drop than any off the shelf Alkaline cell can. Those who haven't experienced modern AA rechargeables might be surprised to learn that they are in virtually every dimension better than non-rechargeable primaries.


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## SilverFox (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

Hello Woodsroad,

Welcome to CPR.

Yours is an excellent real world test. I love those.

It looks like your cells are holding up well and you should be able to get a couple of more years from your cells.

Now, all you have to do is train your daughter in how to care for her cells...

Tom


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## SilverFox (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*

Hello Al,

Tandem has covered your questions, but that doesn't stop me from also trying to add a little...  

mA is current. mAh is capacity. 

The load is what it is. You can find what it is by measuring it, or sometimes there are specifications that give you an idea. Another way to determine how much current is being used is to time how long it takes to empty your battery. If you know the capacity of the battery and the time they last, you can calculate the load.

I put numbers on my cells with a Sharpie and track them with a simple spreadsheet. When I get new cells I do a Break In on them and record the capacity. I follow that with a 1C charge and a 0.5C discharge and record that capacity. Beyond that I do special things for particular applications. I try to check my cells at least once a year to see how they are doing.

When my cells fall below 80% of their initial capacity when new, I recycle them and replace them.

Tom


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## Woodsroad (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



SilverFox said:


> Hello Woodsroad,
> 
> Welcome to CPR.



Thanks, Tom!



> Yours is an excellent real world test. I love those. It looks like your cells are holding up well and you should be able to get a couple of more years from your cells.



That's the suspenseful part. Any minute now....they could DIE!



> Now, all you have to do is train your daughter in how to care for her cells...



yeah, that's part of growing up. That's why my dad bought me my own tools when I was 8, so that I would ruin MY tools, not his! Then again, my dad and I built batteries, too...maybe I should do that with my daughter, too... of course, my dad is now 94. he grew up at a time when that's what boys did. They read science and mechanics magazines and built stuff. 

Oh, and for folks looking for some good basic battery knowledge, look here: http://batteryuniversity.com/


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## Al Thumbs (May 17, 2012)

*Re: Questions about Eneloops and chargers for them*



tandem said:


> No, not quite. mAh stands for milli-Ampere hour, so you would never say 2000 mAh per hour but could say 2000 mA per hour. Clear?
> 
> If cells were able to deliver any current rate and deliver exactly their label capacity then a 2000 mAh (or 2 Amp hour) cell could deliver 2 amps for 1 hour, or as said above, half an amp for four hours.
> 
> ...



Clear, and thanks.

Al T.


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## HighlanderNorth (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm going to say I agree with some of the chargers listed above, and also include the Nitecore I4 charger, which has 2 channels, and 4 bays, so you can charge 2 batteries at a time on 2 different channels if you want, and it charges Li Ion batteries if you decide to use them in the future too. It doesnt have folding prongs, because it doesnt have prongs to begin with, it has a removable cord that plugs into the back of it. 

Its about $25.


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## cdogg44 (Jan 8, 2013)

*Eneloop & Charger Advice*

I'm getting into trail cameras and have ordered several eneloop AA's. I am looking for a charger to go with them. Obviously with the money I'm spending on batteries I want to use a good charger and prolong their life.

I've read a bunch here in the forums and like the C9000, but the capacity of only 4 batteries seems small. My cameras hold 12 AA's. How long does it take to charge 4 2000mah eneloops in a C9000?

Are there any other chargers I should be looking at? Specifically any that have a capacity of 8-12 AA? I really don't need anything too technical, just something that charges the batteries in a manner that prolongs their life.

Thank you


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## Yamabushi (Jan 8, 2013)

*Re: Eneloop & Charger Advice*

Maha Powerex C800S, C801D and C808M each handle 8 batteries at a time.

EDIT: The C9000 terminates conservatively, stepping down at the end to a topoff charge rate of 100 mA for 2 hours. So, if you want a full charge using 1000 mA as the initial charge rate, it could take about 4 hours (2 hours @ 1000 mA + 2 hours @ 100 mA).


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## Wrend (Jan 8, 2013)

*Re: Eneloop & Charger Advice*

You can also carry extra sets charged and ready to use so you don't have to wait for them to charge.

The C9000 will charge at up to 2000mA per channel, so a little over an hour or so for a full charge on Eneloop AAs. It's probably somewhat better for them to charge them at 700mA to 1000mA.


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## Lobstradomus (Jan 9, 2013)

*Re: Eneloop & Charger Advice*

Now that it appears Sanyo has discontinued their MDU01 USB battery charger, does anyone have any recommendations for a decent USB AA/AAA charger?


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## cdogg44 (Jan 9, 2013)

*Re: Eneloop & Charger Advice*



Yamabushi said:


> Maha Powerex C800S, C801D and C808M each handle 8 batteries at a time.
> 
> EDIT: The C9000 terminates conservatively, stepping down at the end to a topoff charge rate of 100 mA for 2 hours. So, if you want a full charge using 1000 mA as the initial charge rate, it could take about 4 hours (2 hours @ 1000 mA + 2 hours @ 100 mA).



Other than all of the break in and cycle modes, does the C9000 offer features I am going to need over either of the 8 battery chargers if I am just going to have a stash of Eneloops and run them until they are dead in the woods and charge them back up?

Do I need the maintenance features of the C9000?


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## Yamabushi (Jan 9, 2013)

*Re: Eneloop & Charger Advice*



cdogg44 said:


> Do I need the maintenance features of the C9000?



It depends on your applications.

The 8-cell chargers have a conditioning function so the analysis function is the significant advantage to the C9000.

I have 1, 2, 3, 4 and 8-cell devices and want to use matched cells in the multi-cell devices (especially the high current devices) so I use the C9000 analysis function to periodically check my cells. If all my devices were single-cell I think I would have bought a C800S.


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## Mr Happy (Jan 9, 2013)

*Re: Eneloop & Charger Advice*



cdogg44 said:


> Other than all of the break in and cycle modes, does the C9000 offer features I am going to need over either of the 8 battery chargers if I am just going to have a stash of Eneloops and run them until they are dead in the woods and charge them back up?
> 
> Do I need the maintenance features of the C9000?



If you ignore all the other features of the C9000, it remains a solid and reliable charger for simple charging. It will charge 4 AA eneloops in about an hour at the fastest 2000 mA charge rate while keeping them quite cool. The price you pay for this coolness is that if you take the batteries off the charger as soon as they are done they will be charged only to 95% or so. If you use other chargers at 2000 mA that try to go all the way to 100% the batteries *will* get hot. Of course, charging 12 batteries on the C9000 will require you to attend to the charger once per hour or so. On the other hand, I know of chargers with 8 slots, but hardly any with 12 slots. So you either need more than one charger or more than one charge cycle, unless you are patient.

You don't _need_ the maintenance features of the C9000, but consider them a bonus. You may find you value them once you have some experience with your batteries.


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## cdogg44 (Jan 9, 2013)

*Re: Eneloop & Charger Advice*



Mr Happy said:


> If you ignore all the other features of the C9000, it remains a solid and reliable charger for simple charging. It will charge 4 AA eneloops in about an hour at the fastest 2000 mA charge rate while keeping them quite cool. The price you pay for this coolness is that if you take the batteries off the charger as soon as they are done they will be charged only to 95% or so. If you use other chargers at 2000 mA that try to go all the way to 100% the batteries *will* get hot. Of course, charging 12 batteries on the C9000 will require you to attend to the charger once per hour or so. On the other hand, I know of chargers with 8 slots, but hardly any with 12 slots. So you either need more than one charger or more than one charge cycle, unless you are patient.
> 
> You don't _need_ the maintenance features of the C9000, but consider them a bonus. You may find you value them once you have some experience with your batteries.



Although it would be expensive, is an 8 slot charger and C9000 pair the answer? That would give me the ability to charge all 12 at once, and still give me the C9000 capabilities if/when I ever needed them. Also just so I'm clear, these chargers (C9000 and Maha 8 slots) are smart enough that I could load them up, go to bed, and they would shut off in the night and not toast the batteries?


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## Mr Happy (Jan 9, 2013)

*Re: Eneloop & Charger Advice*

If you are going to use the 12 batteries in the same device at the same time, then the best advice would be to charge all 12 batteries the same way on the same kind of charger. It is likely to shorten the life of NiMH cells if they are not charged and discharged evenly.

The C9000 will definitely shut off automatically without toasting the batteries. With the 8 slot charger I can't give you that perfect assurance. I don't own one and that charger works slightly differently.

Another possibility to consider when charging 12 eneloops at once, although not quite a consumer "drop in the batteries and forget it" solution, is a hobby RC charger like the Turnigy Accucel-6. If you can make up a battery harness to put 12 eneloops in series (e.g. using a cardboard tube and magnets) then you can use such a charger to charge your batteries all at once. Feel free to ignore this suggestion if it makes you feel uncomfortable, as it is definitely more of an advanced technical solution and is not quite consumer-friendly for the ordinary battery user. But anyway, just so you know it's out there.


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## Wrend (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Eneloop & Charger Advice*

I have 2 C9000s to handle larger workloads and testing sessions, and because I only use up to 8 cell applications for my Eneloops. If I had need of 12 cell series sets, I'd probably pick up another C9000. I can understand that that might be considered a bit excessive to some peoples needs. 

Just a side note here, but I think Sanyo/Panasonic, at least in the Eneloop on-line guide, only recommend using up to 10 cells in series. This might be due to the risk of having slightly unevenly balanced cells and the increased risk of reverse charging some of them when using that many in series. So, it is probably even that much more important to make sure that your cells are balanced, if you want to get a more long and useful life out of them.

Another option (similar to what Mr Happy suggested) my be a low rate series charge of 200mA or less for about 14 hours or so for a full charge on your Eneloop AAs. This charging method is used in hobby transmitters that use packs of NiCd or NiMH cells (and other wall wart style charging methods for things such as cordless phones), and works pretty well. It has other risks and limitations though, like taking a long time, and slow cooking your cells on the charger if you leave them charging too long. 200mA or less is a low enough rate to where you won't do too much damage to your cells if they're over charged a little, and actually, a little overcharging using this method is needed to balance them. Just don't over do it. You can tell when they're done when they start to warm up a little more. If you're using a good hobby charger for this, you can set a time, temperature, and capacity limit termination. The charged capacity limit is going to need to be significantly more than the stored capacity of the cells for a full and balanced charge. (About 1.4 to 1.6 times the amount for Eneloops.)

For charging at faster rates (700mA to 1000mA) you'll need to use the drop in voltage when full detection termination method (-ΔV) of the hobby charge and might have to play around a little with the setting for it to get it to terminate properly. Use the manufacturer's guidelines for NiMH cells.

To put the cells in series, you could also use battery holders that can be picked up at places like RadioShack and put a few of those together in series.


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