# Vitamin D Lights?



## Bright_Light (Sep 25, 2017)

I live in the southern United States and get plenty of sunlight during midday and my vitamin D levels are still low. I take vitamin D in supplement form, but don't tolerate too much of it well. Would be amazing if these LEDs would help.

The company claims their LEDs have a number of health-related uses:

https://www.ledinside.com/news/2017/9/rayvio_uvb_led

http://rayvio.com/xpseries/


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## Timothybil (Sep 25, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

I don't know. UVB is nothing to mess around with. I would be more inclined to look at some of the lights that are used for therapy during the winter months when sunshine is limited.

Have you discussed this possible treatment with your medical professional? Personally, anything that produces more Vitamin D in 30 seconds than sunlight does in 30 minutes scares me. Show me some peer-reviewed studies and not a couple of press releases and you may be able to persuade me.


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## broadgage (Sep 25, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

I am very doubtful indeed.
Low vitamin D levels should be treated by a proper supplement, preferably one prescribed by a doctor, and by dietary adjustment to increase natural vitamin D levels.
Moderate sunlight exposure helps to an extent, but AFAIK more people die of skin cancer than of vitamin D deficiency so do not overdo it.

A full medical examination might be prudent in case your low vitamin D levels have some underlying cause.

Are you light skinned ? or dark ? Black skin is less effective than light skin in producing vitamin D from sunlight, this is not racist but a factual statement. One might expect that black skinned people living in northern climes would regularly suffer from lack of vitamin D, and indeed some do, though the problem is not believed to be widespread, presumably because an average modern diet is rich in the vitamin.


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## Keitho (Sep 25, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

I think what you're after is a light that produces UVB to create natural vitamin D. I don't think many LED are UVB. I'm a little skeptical of the medical benefits of bright visual spectrum light, except as part of sleep therapy.

UV lights are sometimes marketed as grow lights, because UV light helps plants grow. UV lights are also used to disinfect medical equipment. Side effects are increased natural production of vitamin D, sunburn, and higher risk of skin cancer. Careful with tanning beds and grow lights, as well as natural sunlight...all can harm you.


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## Bright_Light (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

Thanks for the replies. 

I'm light skinned and get 15-20 minutes of sunlight a few times a week with my shirt off. My body has a problem with digesting food in general (I'm hyperthyroid), so I probably don't absorb all the nutritional vitamin D like most people. But my levels are not crazy low (27 ng/ml last test), but they could be higher.

Interesting responses so far. Was wanting to know what everyone thought about this. Would be amazing if it helped people out.


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## StarHalo (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

1-2 hours once every 1-2 weeks does wonders for my skin, I highly recommend taking up a hobby that leaves you wandering around in good light outdoors (photography for me.) 

The ladies swear by spa LED light therapy for the face, though it doesn't use UV.


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## vadimax (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

As far as I know fish oil is a good source of vitamin D.


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## moozooh (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

It sounds more like you need to treat your thyroid issues if you want better nutrient absorption. Normally a person only requires a few minutes a day of sunlight (and even then not necessarily direct sunlight) to avoid vitamin D deficiency. I mean, if actual sunlight doesn't help you, how do you figure an LED with infinitesimal fraction of the sun's power would be enough?

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that being under the effect of bright light (especially with a prominent blue part of the spectrum, which coincidentally includes most white LEDs) at nighttime may disrupt your circadian rhythms. So if you end up proceeding with this, limit this kind of artificial irradiation to work hours if possible.


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## LetThereBeLight! (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

You might need to see an Endocrinologist. Ask your Primary Care Doctor if that specialist could assist you.


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## eh4 (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

Creating vitamin D is the only reason I'd ever go to a tanning bed. 
I take the D3 supplements in the winter once I start feeling cold, low energy, and liable to get sick, quit taking it when short sleeves weather returns. 

The idea of a UVb flashlight doesn't sound good to me either, with sunlight you pretty much know what you're getting, pretty much.


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## eh4 (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

But then again, they're talking about only exposing your skin for 30 seconds, if the distance from the light, the time, and the intensity of the light at the emitter stayed calibrated, then you should be able to basically know what you're getting...
Kinda creepy, pretty neat through. 
I wonder how long they've tested to see how skin holds up to sessions over time. 
If 30 seconds of this light is less damaging than 20 min of sunlight then maybe it'll be a great help for the sunlight deprived.


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## iamlucky13 (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

I am aware there are some uses of UV lights for treating some conditions, but which conditions, and what intensity and how long are fairly specific questions that are best suited for your doctor or a specialist. I'm assuming your vitamin D deficiency was diagnosed by a doctor? In that case, I think you should take your next opportunity to ask them about UV light therapy.

If they think UV-B therapy is a good course of action and can recommend an intensity level, perhaps we can help determine if a specific device meets their needs.

I do see from searching that there is some research supporting the idea that UV-B exposure can boost vitamin D levels in those who are deficient, but I don't know enough about it to say how much you should get, whether there may be other concerns, or even if that benefit still applies to people who get what should be sufficient levels via diet or supplements and plenty of sunlight.


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## bykfixer (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

Get out doors more. 
Typically not mid day when the sun is harshest.

I work out doors and my doctor started telling me my vitamin D was too low. "Hows that you say doc?"... turns out slathering on suncreen often was blocking the process. 
I just wait until about 9am or so to slather it on an arm I leave unprotected the first hour or so in the first couple hours of the day while the sun isn't as harsh.

No more low Vitamin D.


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## Bright_Light (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

Thank you again for the replies everyone. I've been taking antithyroid medicine for about a year now and I've gained 15 lbs and my appetite is much better. Doc says we'll test vitamin D levels again in January.

Here's the publication of the LED study if anyone is interested:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-11362-2


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## ssanasisredna (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*

https://www.sciencealert.com/vitamin-d-tablets-may-be-worse-for-you-then-nothing-at-all

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/benefits-vitamin-d-supplements-still-debated-201404047106


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## StarHalo (Sep 26, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*



ssanasisredna said:


> https://www.sciencealert.com/vitamin-d-tablets-may-be-worse-for-you-then-nothing-at-all



If the local vitamin shop only stocked the pills that did something, there wouldn't be a vitamin shop; I did multi-vitamins for a long time when I was younger, near as I can tell all it did was give me more expensive urine..


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## milehigher (Sep 27, 2017)

I see one of the foremost leading sleep pathologist in the country ,my sleep is horrible, he has seen me break the continous hours awake world record , of course i dont carry the title because no one wasvthere to certify it the official record is just over 241 hours before the guy keeled over dead .

Anyway I am hypothyroid as well , and use several high powered photon therapy devices one is built into my alarm clock , one is on my desk , and one is by my recliner , my doctor has pulled out all the stops with me after my last doctor nearly killed me .

There is very little science behind the blue LEDs ,but there is a boatload of positive science behind both fluorescent and LED photon therapy it improves your vital vitamin D3, helps relieve Seasonal Affective Disorder( SAD) ,and helps to regulate your sleep cycle and production of Melatonin a natural sleep hormone , big pharma has also come out recently with a hypnotic (sleeping pill) called Rozerem it's a cousin of melatonin I have a friend who takes it and it works great , I could eat a bottle and still nothing. Be selective about your lightbox there is a dearth of cheap crap thats little more than a fire hazzard out there ,and remember photon therapy will help your D3 and sleep if you use it in the morning , never use it after 12 noon it will cause an advancement in your sleep cycle that will put you out of synch with the rest of your life .if i can help in anyway post or PM me ,been doing this dance for nearly fifty years , my sleep pathologist says it's a honor for him to see him "everyone that comes thru the door has read the book on sleep disorders, but your one of the authors" basicly all the stuff they know about they know from lab rats like me who has lived it every day of my life .


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## ssanasisredna (Sep 27, 2017)

milehigher said:


> I see one of the foremost leading sleep pathologist in the country ,my sleep is horrible, he has seen me break the continous hours awake world record , of course i dont carry the title because no one wasvthere to certify it the official record is just over 241 hours before the guy keeled over dead .
> 
> Anyway I am hypothyroid as well , and use several high powered photon therapy devices one is built into my alarm clock , one is on my desk , and one is by my recliner , my doctor has pulled out all the stops with me after my last doctor nearly killed me .
> 
> There is very little science behind the blue LEDs ,but there is a boatload of positive science behind both fluorescent and LED photon therapy it improves your vital vitamin D3, helps relieve Seasonal Affective Disorder( SAD) ,and helps to regulate your sleep cycle and production of Melatonin a natural sleep hormone , big pharma has also come out recently with a hypnotic (sleeping pill) called Rozerem it's a cousin of melatonin I have a friend who takes it and it works great , I could eat a bottle and still nothing. Be selective about your lightbox there is a dearth of cheap crap thats little more than a fire hazzard out there ,and remember photon therapy will help your D3 and sleep if you use it in the morning , never use it after 12 noon it will cause an advancement in your sleep cycle that will put you out of synch with the rest of your life .if i can help in anyway post or PM me ,been doing this dance for nearly fifty years , my sleep pathologist says it's a honor for him to see him "everyone that comes thru the door has read the book on sleep disorders, but your one of the authors" basicly all the stuff they know about they know from lab rats like me who has lived it every day of my life .



Circadian Rhythm / Melatonin suppression is regulated by the intrinsically photosensitive retinal ganglian cells in the eye. Their response is from about 450nm to 520nm with the peak (radiant, not lumens) at 480-485nm. Blue LEDs will work for melatonin suppression and to circadian rhythm regulation which is also related to SAD.

Vitamin D production occurs from about 240nm to 300nm. There are several processes involved but the peak across all is close to 280nm. Above 300nm, one of the processes is not very reactive. 

For sleep therapy, lights that emit in the blue/blue-green area can be effective. That is not going to stimulate vitamin-D. That requires UVB which you can get from fluorescent and with greater difficulty (and cost) LED. It is best to have dosage control (timer).


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## eh4 (Sep 29, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*



ssanasisredna said:


> https://www.sciencealert.com/vitamin-d-tablets-may-be-worse-for-you-then-nothing-at-all
> 
> https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/benefits-vitamin-d-supplements-still-debated-201404047106



I just read through both of those, and they sound like the regular seesaw research that is typical with eggs, butter, etc. The nutritional, preventative health fringe becomes Big Vitamin. 
Too much of anything can't be good for you. 
I notice that the first link mainly talks about increased falls and fractures, makes me wonder if the patients aren't going with the magic bullet theory and becoming too ambitious with their activities without ramping up slowly enough, or if the supplementation is making them want to dance around. 
My experience has been that I can most often tell when I'm liable to get sick, if I'm liable then even without much contact with other people I'll seem to absorb whatever virus is available and come down with it. On the other hand when I'm feeling bullet proof it mostly bears out, spending time with someone with a cold or flu is a non issue. 

For myself, if I feel cold all the time, have low energy, and my sinuses feel irritated, chances are that I'm going to get sick if anything comes into contact with a mucus membrane. 
When I take D3, I take a lot of it for a few days, and then back off when I don't feel chilled and low energy. A lot for me is about 100 times the daily recommended, backing off means I keep taking about 10 times the daily recommended whenever I feel like it through the rest of the winter. Really scientific, but I go by how I feel. 
Everything I've read recommends that people get their levels checked by bloodwork, and that while overdosing on the fat soluble D3 is a very serious matter that can damage heart and bones, that it is very difficult to accomplish, and they don't have many cases of it to study. 
What I've read seemed to say that I'd have to maintain my mega dose for several months rather than the few days that I take it, in order to run much risk of doing harm. 

If also heard that you can get a fatal dose of vitamin A from eating a single hearty meal of arctic sea mammal liver, seals and polar bear both iirc.


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## ssanasisredna (Sep 29, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*



eh4 said:


> I notice that the first link mainly talks about increased falls and fractures, makes me wonder if the patients aren't going with the magic bullet theory and becoming too ambitious with their activities without ramping up slowly enough, or if the supplementation is making them want to dance around.



If it is the one I think you mean, it was double blind so your conclusion is not possible. 




eh4 said:


> For myself, if I feel cold all the time, have low energy, and my sinuses feel irritated, chances are that I'm going to get sick if anything comes into contact with a mucus membrane.



Or you were sick already. Incubation periods can be 72 hours for the common cold, longer for other things. Lack of suitable rest does suppress the immune system as well of course.


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## eh4 (Sep 29, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*



ssanasisredna said:


> If it is the one I think you mean, it was double blind so your conclusion is not possible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Magic bullet hopes and assumptions aside, even double blind, if they felt better they might become more active and more prone to falling. 

The 72 hours incubation period is a good point to take into consideration. I'll feel lower and slower through the winter until I think of it, and often times it's during what might be an incubation period that I finally start supplementing. 
All I can say is that my own experience has been that I don't get sick and down in the winter like I used to.


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## JacksonXI (Dec 6, 2017)

Definitely the vitamin D lights do not emit vitamin D molecules and then pass through the skin. Instead, the principle is using the trace amount of UV radiation of stimulate the skin to produce vitamin, just like what the natural sunlight does. However, it should be noticed that intensity and duration should not be too overwhelming. As you can see some experts suggest to have normal sun light bath for 10 mins per day.


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## ssanasisredna (Dec 14, 2017)

*Re: Vitamin D flashlights?*



broadgage said:


> .... but AFAIK more people die of skin cancer than of vitamin D deficiency so do not overdo it.




Moderate sun cancer may result in more easily treatable melanoma, but also appears to result in less deadly carcinomas. The net benefit of moderate exposure appears to be positive w.r.t. cancer.


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## milehigher (Dec 14, 2017)

I worry less aboutv skin cancer than i do about the Sid e effects of not sleeping , LIKE heart disease, stroke, organ failure people die from lack of sleep all the time but they dont grt recorded that way by the coroner, they fall asleep at the wheel it was accidental , strokes heart sttacks cardiac arrest are listed as "natural cause" human sleep deprivation studies in the 1970's official because they are inhumane and potentialy lethal, but onserving sleep deprived mice models is considered ok and humane , there was a child in the early 2000 that parents never saw sleep and he was realy unstable mood wise, the doctors told the parents they were nervous nellies and assorted other b's minimizing the child pronlem , they finally got to s good doctor who did darts and MRI'S, found the child had rare Chiari malformation that was causing brain stem hernination, did surgery to enlarge the skull opening by removing bone, the child went from not sleeping for three years and unstable emotionaly to a kid who could sleep and regulate its moods. Of course he will always need to be monitored for heart brain and kidney problems caused by the extreme stress put on his organs . They doht know exactly why sleep is so importaht to humans other than we process the days sensory inputs and form memories then , as a fact our brains work three teo 4 times more when we sleep than it does during our awake time.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 14, 2017)

As has been said eggs are full of vitamin D and they are very good for you, Well until the so called experts change their minds again.

A little info on chicken eggs.

In the UK, Our chickens are vaccinated against salmonella, And it is illegal for the manufacturer to wash them as they come out of the chicken with a protective protein coating, so when you buy them in a shop you will find chicken poop on some of them, But they are certified safe to eat raw.

In the US, chickens are not vaccinated, So the eggs are washed in a solvent to kill any salmonella.

So US eggs are illegal to sell in the UK, and UK eggs are illegal for sale in the US.

It`s a funny old world.

john.


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## milehigher (Dec 15, 2017)

I say screw it all , I am allergic to eggs my last egg was scrambled at about 3 or 4 keptvtelling my parentsvthey hurt my tummy and was told it was all in my head till that final time when it caused a anaphylactic shock , I was saved by the hospital and tested by an allergist , intresting enough my sister had the same thing happen to her except her allergy was bananas .


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## markr6 (Dec 15, 2017)

Interesting. I just had a blood test and vitamin D was the only thing a little off.


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## milehigher (Dec 15, 2017)

markr6 said:


> Interesting. I just had a blood test and vitamin D was the only thing a little off. I think it was 23 when the normal range was 30-100. I don't remember the unit, but it didn't mean anything to me anyway.


Lots of people at this time of year run a little low shorter days longer nights, and fery fold so you get less sunlight ! Sunlight is your primary source or if you hafe SAD or sleep disorders you use photon therapy to help combat those lower levels with 10,000 lunen fluorescent or LED lights , I am sleep disordered so my alarm clock is dawn & dusk simulator as well as crazy bright and my desk lamp and reading lamp a full spectrum fluorescent bulbs , it have never been real low on D but my sleep pathologist has me using every trick in the book to get a decent nights sleep in winter especialy whenmits dnoeing with 11 inches on the ground just causes my pain to be worse , and since i am allergic to eggs that eliminates most vaccines so i hide from people so they dont possably get me sick ? So my exposure yovsctusl sunlihht in winter is slim to none, last night i was ip all night i use i boatload of hypnotics and still many times don't sleep, if normal person took what do they would still be asleep on sunday , it's a curse I live with most of my life,my sleep pathologist believes my physical condition and my dleep are connected he just can't wrap his around the how , I keep telling him if he does he will win the nobel prize in medicine.


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