# Mag mod? need very long runtime not blinding light



## nighttrails (May 5, 2009)

My needs are different than the usual desire of a super bright light that I read in most posts, so I’m seeking recommendations. 

I have and use several stock mag chargers with the beam focused tight. If possible, I’d like in a mod:
1) a run time of 3-4 hours
2) an incandescent bulb so color rendition is very good – reds and browns must be bright
3) a cleaner beam than stock mag charger
4) light and throw as good or a bit better than stock
5) nothing terribly complex for my first mod 

Would the high capacity D size 12000 mAh NiMH rechargeable batteries like those available at Battery Junction be good in a mod? I’m thinking about using however many cells needed in a maglite D body or in a mag charger with a tube extension if needed. For a bulb, something not highly overdriven and suitable for a reliable working light - maybe even the stock mag charger bulb with a light etching if I can’t come up with better. 

 Or, is there something else I should be looking at for a flashlight to fit my needs? 

I’m not a flashlight expert like many here on the forum, so I really appreciate the help!


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## fivemega (May 5, 2009)

nighttrails said:


> 1) a run time of 3-4 hours
> 2) an incandescent bulb so color rendition is very good – reds and browns must be bright
> 3) a cleaner beam than stock mag charger
> 4) light and throw as good or a bit better than stock
> 5) nothing terribly complex for my first mod



*1) Use proper size extension tubes to use 5 full size NiMH "D" cells.

2) Use CL1057 for slighty brighter or WA1160 for double/tripple the brightness.

3) Use orange peel reflector for cleaner/nicer beam shape.

4) For better throw, you need M*gCharger 2.5" Throw Master.

5) There are many other options if one or some factors removed or changed.*


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## 325addict (May 6, 2009)

I don't know what size (read: number of D-cells) Mags you have, apart from the MagCharger, but with those 12Ah D-cells you can easily reach more than 10 hours runtime....

I know Osram and some other manufacturers make those small real Halogen-lamps, you can just exchange them for the original P13,5s lamps.

For a 3D cell Mag, you can use the 4V / 0.85A version, which is not even overdriven with fully charged batteries. 

Don't expect a huge range or a wall of light like a Wolf-Eyes M90 Rattlesnake or a MagCharger, but the light is of the right color and very usable when it doesn't have to be very bright and/or far-reaching.

With those 12Ah batteries in it, it should run more than 12 hours!


Timmo.


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## Gunner12 (May 6, 2009)

There are warm and neutral white LEDs. Malkoff has done some one off drop-ins so you might be able to get him to make a Warm or neutral white LED drop-in that could work for what you want.


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## nighttrails (May 6, 2009)

325addict - "you can use the 4V / 0.85A version"

I may try for fun, but for my use,I need the same throw and light, or better, of stock mag charger.

Gunner12 - "There are warm and neutral white LEDs. Malkoff has done some one off drop-ins so you might be able to get him to make a Warm or neutral white LED drop-in that could work for what you want."

I bought a Dereelight DBS V2 5A Q3 warm LED, an though it is a great light, it just doesn't compare to making the colors pop like my stock mag charger. I don't think any LED will compare. I'd love to be shown otherwise, though, since they are so much better with run time and size.

Thanks for the replies!


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## lctorana (May 7, 2009)

Anyone:
Q1) What are the exact voltage/current/ ratings for the stock MagCharger bulb?

Q2) What is the Ah rating of the stock Magcharger battery?

To the OP:
Q3) (already asked by 325addict) How big is the Maglite you wish to turn into a Magcharger-beater?

Armed with those answers, I am sure I can come up with an answer.


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## fivemega (May 7, 2009)

nighttrails said:


> 2) an incandescent bulb so color rendition is very good – reds and browns must be bright





Gunner12 said:


> There are warm and neutral white LEDs. Malkoff has done some one off drop-ins so you might be able to get him to make a Warm or neutral white LED drop-in that could work for what you want.


================


nighttrails said:


> 4) light and throw as good or a bit better than stock





325addict said:


> For a 3D cell Mag, you can use the 4V / 0.85A version, which is not even overdriven with fully charged batteries.


*Is this brighter than M*gCharger???*
================


lctorana said:


> Anyone:
> Q1) What are the exact voltage/current/ ratings for the stock MagCharger bulb?
> 
> Q2) What is the Ah rating of the stock Magcharger battery?
> ...


A1)





Older model was 8W

A2)




Older model was 2200mAh


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## ^^Nova^^ (May 7, 2009)

So the magcharger is only 6v 11w, this would mean that a ROP low would be brighter and runtime would be similar depending upon battery choice.

The ROP low is also 6v 11w, but it is overdriven to 7.2v and produces more than double the standard light output. With 6xAA batteries runtimes would range from just under an hour with Eneloops to about 75 minutes with some 2700mah Sanyo's.

Cheers,
Nova


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (May 7, 2009)

nighttrails said:


> 4) light and throw as good or a bit better than stock



Maybe FiveMega can build you an incan that can" throw as good or a bit better than stock" but if there is any stock incan that can throw in the same league as a MC I would like to see it!!! You can increase the throw and spill by adding a Phillips 5761 bulb but you lose runtime.Trying to get 3-4 of runtime maybe unrealistic.I have seen some incans on E-Bay that claim 1200lms.but I wouldn't bet the farm they could outthrow a Magcharger61!!!!!!


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## fivemega (May 7, 2009)

^^Nova^^ said:


> So the magcharger is only 6v 11w


 *And 50 hours life.*



^^Nova^^ said:


> The ROP low is also 6v 11w


 *And 140 hours life.
This makes ROP low more robust when overdriven to 7.2 volt.*



^^Nova^^ said:


> ROP LO With 6xAA batteries runtimes would range from just under an hour with Eneloops to about 75 minutes with some 2700mah Sanyo's.


*And two hours with this, this or this.*


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## ^^Nova^^ (May 7, 2009)

A quad bored 3D, now you are talking. Are the 12aa>3D parallel adapters available still?

Also a 4D with a 6 cell sub-c battery pack is a good option (depending upon size), there are some 4500mah and 5000mah sub-c's around.

Cheers,
Nova


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## KiwiMark (May 7, 2009)

nighttrails said:


> Would the high capacity D size 12000 mAh NiMH rechargeable batteries like those available at Battery Junction be good in a mod? I’m thinking about using however many cells needed in a maglite D body or in a mag charger with a tube extension if needed.



If you didn't mind the size of a 6D then you could go with a ROP low and 6 x 12,000 mAh D cells. This would give 4 - 5 hours of run time with plenty of bright light.


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## Benson (May 7, 2009)

In a 4D, there's the option of 4 Li-ion D cells running a 12V 10W bulb (maybe this one would handle it?) for about 4 hours, but I'm not sure how output would compare.

In a 6D, maybe an 18V PR-base flashlight bulb, for 5-6 hours.

The low capacity of readily available Li-ion D cells (i.e., the ones from KD) is annoying.


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## DM51 (May 7, 2009)

Whenever I see someone specifying very long run-time, I have to wonder whether it is really the case that they will have to be away from their house, or their car, or even their back-pack, for that long to make changing batteries impractical or impossible. Certainly there are such cases, but I nevertheless wonder whether it is always so.

In this case, 4 hours seems a fairly reasonable run-time to specify, but if it is to be a bright incan light, the battery pack required to ensure such a long run-time is going to make it very big and heavy. I certainly wouldn't want to walk around for 4 hours carrying a 6D Mag. 

Would it not be possible to settle for a shorter run-time and carry a spare set of batteries?


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## mdocod (May 8, 2009)

How about a carley 609 in a 4D mag with 4x 10AH LSD cells from accupower. 

Runtime would be ~5+ hours, output should be in the ballpark of ~100 torch lumens on average through the run. Install a lightly textured reflector to smoothen up the beam a bit.


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## nighttrails (May 8, 2009)

DM51 said:


> Whenever I see someone specifying very long run-time, I have to wonder whether it is really the case that they will have to be away from their house, or their car, or even their back-pack, for that long to make changing batteries impractical or impossible. Certainly there are such cases, but I nevertheless wonder whether it is always so.
> 
> In this case, 4 hours seems a fairly reasonable run-time to specify, but if it is to be a bright incan light, the battery pack required to ensure such a long run-time is going to make it very big and heavy. I certainly wouldn't want to walk around for 4 hours carrying a 6D Mag.
> 
> Would it not be possible to settle for a shorter run-time and carry a spare set of batteries?


 

Yes, it would be possible, and that is what I have been doing. Carrying in a backpack, an extra mag charger and spare battery to swap out as needed. It's just not always convenient for my working situation to stop and do so. If my list of needs as detailed in my original posting is obtainable, or even beatable with the right bulb and components, it seems worth doing. Fivemega's response confirms approx. what I have been cosidering. 



fivemega said:


> *1) Use proper size extension tubes to use 5 full size NiMH "D" cells.*
> 
> *2) Use CL1057 for slighty brighter or WA1160 for double/tripple the brightness.*
> 
> ...


 

5 D cells to obtain what I'm after is okay size wise, but is where I draw the line. 6 D cells is too long. Besides which bulbs to try, what I'm debating is whether to modify my magcharger with extension tubes or whether to get a 5D maglite to mod. Would the mag charger be okay charging the 12000 mAh NiMH's? I do have 3 magchargers.

*For Fivemega:* it looks like you sell most of what I need. Unfortunately, as a new CPF member I don't have P.M. privileges. When I wish to order everything how do I do so in one place (post) and have one package shipped, or do I have to order each item seperately through all the different posts listing the items?


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## 325addict (May 10, 2009)

I measured exact specs of the MagCharger parts:

1. Lamp is exactly 10 Watts. 6V and 1.66A (new model lamp, old was 8.4W)
2. batteries marked with 2500mAh are more. Some 2800mAh comes out.

Need more runtime? Throw in a 4Ah (or some sellers even claim to have a 5Ah on sale) battery.

I have some 4Ah batteries, I managed to squeeze 4089mAh out of them.

Runtime would be 4.089 / 1.66 = nearly 2h30 minutes.

So throw in another one in your backpack and your 5 hours is a reality. And yes, you have to take the inconvenience for stopping a few minutes... but you'll have the pleasure of having a less heavy light for _hours...

_Indeed, the MagCharger is hard to beat in color rendition. It's very pleasant light that comes out. However, a Wolf Eyes M90 Rattlesnake also performs very well, is less of a thrower, but with the right batteries also has a runtime of at least 1h45m. On 2X 18650s. Much lighter! Throw in 4 of them extra, and you comfortably have your 5 hours runtime....


Timmo.


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## nighttrails (May 11, 2009)

325addict said:


> I measured exact specs of the MagCharger parts:
> 
> 1. Lamp is exactly 10 Watts. 6V and 1.66A (new model lamp, old was 8.4W)
> 2. batteries marked with 2500mAh are more. Some 2800mAh comes out.
> ...


 
Thanks 325addict, I've considered that. I haven't found any 5Ah battery packs, where did you see them?

And there is still the issue of my desire to smooth out the beam without stepping down from the amount of light and throw of stock bulb.


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## 325addict (May 17, 2009)

I found them om eBay.de 
A seller called "selected-lights" sold them.

Yes, and after some searching I found it:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Akku-passend-fue...40793QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262



Timmo.


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## nighttrails (May 20, 2009)

Has anyone on the forum actually used any 5000mah 6v sticks - and found them to be as claimed?


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## Howecollc (May 22, 2009)

Ultra high capacity batteries usually don't seem to hold up well over time. Considering the amount of daily usage you require of the light, this fact seems even more pertinent. I'd also imagine the specs of that 5000 mAh stick are exaggerated, as things on eBay tend to be. 

Full size D cells are going to charge too slowly in the MagCharger cradle for you to be fully depleting them everyday. I'm thinking a regular 5D Mag with some 10 to 12,000 mAh NiMH Ds, and charge the batteries nightly by sliding them out of the light and into a 1.25 inch diameter PVC tube with end-caps and brass machine screws passing thru the caps. You can then clip a NiMH hobby smart-charger onto the brass screws and charge all the cells at once in about 7 hours.

If you're already willing to carry a 5D Mag, why not just accept the extra 2 inches of the 6D? It would greatly increase your bulb options.

edit:
I just thought to address something. I imagine with the amount of time you spend with your MagChargers that you have a firm idea of their run-time. However, I see people on here often claiming 2 hours, and that is not the case. I have 5 MagChargers in my family, some with 2200mAh batteries, others with 2500 mAh. The average runtime on a full charge is 75 minutes. Just wanted to clarify this in case you assumed your 2 lights together were running for 3-4 hours total.


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## Howecollc (May 22, 2009)

325addict said:


> I measured exact specs of the MagCharger parts:
> 
> 1. Lamp is exactly 10 Watts. 6V and 1.66A (new model lamp, old was 8.4W)


I too have measured the current draw of one of the "narrow filament" bulbs as 1.69A at 5.9 volts under load, which is 9.97 watts. 

I purchased a bunch of these "new style" bulbs when Mag first announced the upgrade; seems like it was 5 or 6 years ago. So, I'm curious where the 8.4 watt bulbs fall iin the timeline. I wonder if they are possibly the "newest" bulb and are responsible for the advertised increase in candlepower from 40,000 to 51,700.


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## nighttrails (May 23, 2009)

Howecollc said:


> I'm thinking a regular 5D Mag with some 10 to 12,000 mAh NiMH Ds


 
I purchased a FM Throwmaster head for mag charger and extension tubes to allow either 5 D or 6 D length with 10-12 ah NiMh D batteries. The Throwmaster arrived yesterday, and though pricey, does exactly what I hoped it would – makes a nicer beam and throws noticeably farther. For my purposes it makes the stock bulb quite good; I may have no need to move up. I use a light to search for minute detail from only feet away, to scanning out to maximum throw distance. I actually like the hotspot for picking out small detail, finding it helps me visually focus on a small area. It makes a lesser-powered bulb quite useful, providing long run time while also preserving some night vision.

With the D NiMH batteries I will achieve the 4-5 hour or more runtime I was hoping for. The physical length and heft of the 5 D light actually helps to stabilize where the flashlight is pointing as I am usually on the move during a search. The added stability helps hold that tight beam steady on longer range objects, and with its 5D length, can even be braced against ones body to be rock steady.




Howecollc said:


> If you're already willing to carry a 5D Mag, why not just accept the extra 2 inches of the 6D? It would greatly increase your bulb options.


 
I may experiment with a few different bulbs at 6 and 7.2v to see what’s truly best for me, perhaps lightly frost etching some of the bulb to clean the beam a little more, hopefully maintaining the throw. I’m not sure about the 6 D length for 7.2v though. It doesn’t seem like a couple more inches should be a big deal but it does seem quite noticeable. At 6D the butt of the flashlight more frequently hits my hip or stomach when sweeping the flashlight side to side unless I push my arm out more. However, the more you raise your arm from a hanging position, the more tiring and unwieldy it becomes. With the purchased ext.tubes I can experiment with this though.

_My latest inquiry:_

Is there a multi-level switch that would fit in a mag charger? If so I could utilize a higher wattage bulb at 50-60% level most of the time, but have the 100% level reserve for occasionally checking out things at maximum throw, and still having great runtime. AW’s soft starter unit with multi-level switch would be great but I don’t think it fits in a mag charger.




Howecollc said:


> charge the batteries nightly by sliding them out of the light and into a 1.25 inch diameter PVC tube with end-caps and brass machine screws passing thru the caps. You can then clip a NiMH hobby smart-charger onto the brass screws and charge all the cells at once in about 7 hours.


I really like this charging idea. Seems very covenient. Now I have to further research which brand batteries and charger to buy. I only need a charger for charging these NiMH D cells not other varieties. Is there any down side to series charging like this?

Thanks to all who have contributed comments and suggestions! Beautiful work FM on the Throwmaster and tubes.


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## 325addict (May 24, 2009)

Whoow... a 5D or 6D! To me, these heavy monsters are too heavy for a use any longer than a few minutes, The MagChgarger or the 3D would be the max for me, or.... a Wolf eyes M90 Rattlesnake.

The series charging is NO problem at all - when using NiMH or NiCd batteries!!

I would build myself a current source that just provides enough current to do the job in the time you have to charge them.

In the case of 12Ah cells, you'll have to pump in 18Ah to fully charge them.
Want to do this in 10 hours? Then a current of 1.8 Amps is needed.
A transformer, rectifier, a large filter capacitor, two resistors, a LED, a PNP power transistor plus heatsink and a diode is all you need 


Timmo.


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## Howecollc (May 25, 2009)

*nighttrails*

Or for the fellow who just wants to buy a charger off the shelf, I had this one by Tenergy in mind. 

Thanks to 325addict for pointing out the 66% charging efficiency of NiMH cells; my 7 hour estimate should actually have been 10 hours. PowerStream has some useful info on charging NiMH cells here.

As for which brand of cells to choose, it seems that Sanyo Cadnica and Twicell batteries are the premium choice for NiCad or NiMH cells. They do indeed cost more than double the price of Tenergy or Titanium brands, but considering you just spent $150 on your Throwmaster, I thought I'd point them out anyway.

When comparing the Throwmaster to the standard MagCharger reflector at a distance of around 5 to 10 feet, is the hot-spot diameter noticeably smaller with the Throwmaster? What did you mean by a "nicer beam"? Also, does it add enough weight to significantly change the balance of the light when used with the standard battery and tube?


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## nighttrails (May 25, 2009)

325addict said:


> A transformer, rectifier, a large filter capacitor, two resistors, a LED, a PNP power transistor plus heatsink and a diode is all you need
> 
> Timmo.


 
Not a good project for me, I think I should just buy a charger



Howecollc said:


> Or for the fellow who just wants to buy a charger off the shelf, I had this one by Tenergy in mind.


 
I was considering something like that, but also debating if it would be worth springing for a Maha 808



Howecollc said:


> As for which brand of cells to choose, it seems that Sanyo Cadnica and Twicell batteries are the premium choice for NiCad or NiMH cells. They do indeed cost more than double the price of Tenergy or Titanium brands, but considering you just spent $150 on your Throwmaster, I thought I'd point them out anyway.


 
What makes them better or premium? As for $150 for the throwmaster... I know I'm assembling a light that most would have no interest in using - it's big and not extremely powerful, can't do fun stuff like start fires and cook eggs, but if it ends up doing what I need it to do and helps me perform better, it will be worth it to me.



Howecollc said:


> When comparing the Throwmaster to the standard MagCharger reflector at a distance of around 5 to 10 feet, is the hot-spot diameter noticeably smaller with the Throwmaster? What did you mean by a "nicer beam"? Also, does it add enough weight to significantly change the balance of the light when used with the standard battery and tube?


 
The hot spot is noticably smaller and brighter. Just my guesstimate- throw maybe improved 20% and it seems at any range things directly in the hot spot look almost twice as bright. Again, just guessing, I didn't measure anything, and I'm "unenlightened". By nicer beam, I meant a bit smoother, less artifacts. Physically, it adds about an 1 1/2" and maybe 2-3 ozs. (no scale handy) Definately heavier, but given the size and heft of a mag charger I'd say it doesn't significantly affect the balance.


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## Howecollc (Jun 1, 2009)

nighttrails said:


> What makes them (Sanyo cells) better or premium?


Longevity and accurate, non-exaggerated specifications, I would imagine. I have no experience with the Sanyo Cadnica or Twicells, but an RC plane guy I know swears by them. 

I carry an older model ruggedized Nextel cell phone, which utilizes a clip-on NiMH battery. The original Motorola battery it came with lasted 2 1/2 years. I then purchased an identical Motorola OEM battery, which also lasted 2 1/2 years. When the time came to replace it, Motorola had discontinued the battery and the only option I found on-line was from an aftermarket supplier of batteries for emergency radios and things of that nature. The description extolled the virtues of the "quality gold peak cells" used to build their batteries and blah, blah, blah. The cost was 60% of what I had paid for the Motorola battery, and it ended up lasting only 10 months before it started giving trouble. I purchased another identical battery (they're literally the only game going), and it is acting up with 4 months of use on it. Sure, it has a one year warranty. I can't do without the phone while sending the battery to them, and wouldn't invest the time trying to convince them that the problem was indeed their battery and not my phone anyway.

So there's the bottom line as far as I'm concerned; I will gladly pay twice the money for something that will last twice as long, simply to avoid the hassle of re-purchase and replacement. As much as you use your MagCharger, and considering the fairly high shipping rates on batteries, it might pay to only have to replace the cells half as often.

And concerning the Throwmaster; it is any easier to get a perfectly cented hotspot out of it than with the standard reflector? Sometimes you simply can't get a new bulb's filament perfectly centered in the MagCharger no matter how much you bend the pins.


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## KiwiMark (Jun 1, 2009)

Howecollc said:


> Longevity and accurate, non-exaggerated specifications, I would imagine. I have no experience with the Sanyo Cadnica or Twicells, but an RC plane guy I know swears by them.



I used to race RC cars and I have had experience with Sanyo Cadnica cells - they were the best cells available when I used them. Sanyo has had a long history of producing good rechargeable cells and I would trust the quality of most cells with their name on them.

Of course other companies can make good cells too, but there are some companies making cheaper cells that aren't so good. My AW cells are good quality, but I have had an Ultrafire cell that was DOA.

So many times in my life I have paid extra for a higher quality product - it is pretty rare to have any regrets over that decision. I get to live with a good product long after the sting of paying for it wears off. My Leatherman Wave looks quite new, I bought it about a decade ago and I have it on my belt almost every day. My Maglite torches have been modified and work really well, despite being over a decade old. Plenty of cheap junk is in landfills while good quality products are still in use.


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## nighttrails (Jun 8, 2009)

Howecollc said:


> And concerning the Throwmaster; it is any easier to get a perfectly cented hotspot out of it than with the standard reflector? Sometimes you simply can't get a new bulb's filament perfectly centered in the MagCharger no matter how much you bend the pins.


 
Yes, it is easier to center.



KiwiMark said:


> Of course other companies can make good cells too, but there are some companies making cheaper cells that aren't so good. My AW cells are good quality, but I have had an Ultrafire cell that was DOA.
> 
> So many times in my life I have paid extra for a higher quality product - it is pretty rare to have any regrets over that decision.


 

I agree it generally pays to spend extra for quality, and that is generally my policy. I do like to try and verify a product’s superiority, though, since a high price is not in and of itself a guarantee of top quality.

Silverfox’s battery shootout, which is mostly all AA cells, only includes Accupower D 11500 mah D cells. They aren’t truly 11500 mah - I think every battery tested fell short of claimed values - but they do look pretty good. At my bulbs 2a draw they hold at or above 1.2v for almost 8.5 mah, ending at 10.7 mah. So I may go with the Accupower.

Since, I will be playing and changing between 5 and 6 cells for 6v and 7.2v, I’m choosing the maha 808 charger to be able to independently charge up to 8 cells which may be in various states of discharge.

So, it appears with 5 nimh D cells, FM throwmaster head, and Carley 1057 bulb, I have met or exceeded all of my originally stated flashlight goals –

1) A run time of 3-*4 plus *hours 
2) an incandescent bulb so color rendition is* very good* – reds and browns must be bright
3) a *cleaner beam* than stock mag charger
4) light and throw as good or a bit *better* than stock

I am *very *pleased with this setup and the Carley 1057 bulb, which has the added bonus of 200 hours of life. This is a great working light for my needs. Thanks very much to everyone who has commented in this thread! 

Having said that, and having read _way too much CPF_, I’m thinking about a second light. I may edit my post from *Mag mod? need very long runtime not blinding light *to*Mag mod? Need very long runtime not blinding light…until I hit the switch one or two more times!*

I’m considering a Mag D build with a throwmaster head, featuring AW's soft starter-multi level switch. Unlike most who use the switch to achieve the brightest overdriven levels possible without flashing, I’m thinking the 30% setting with a Phillips 5761 at 7.2 volts (6 D cells) would be my normal working level, and I would have in reserve 60% on and 100% on when I really want to reach out… or just for fun and impressing my companions. 

With AW’s switch cycling on 30% of the time, runtime would be 3x, or about 4 hours. I assume bulb life would be 3x too. Since the overdriven 5761 is said to be pretty white, I’m guessing cycling 7.2v at 30% on-time would be less yellow than say a bulb being severely under-driven by low voltage batteries? Is that correct or is there no difference? Actually, I don’t mind a light that is quite yellow as the colors I need to detect are quite vibrant in a light on the yellow side. 

Is anyone else using a soft starter multi-level switch primarily on low? Is this a viable concept*?*


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