# Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" condition?



## chris975d (Dec 21, 2011)

*Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" condition?*

For those of you who should be just now receiving your Ti2 gold and black V10R's, was yours pristine out of the box? Mine just arrived today, and I'm kind of shocked at how it looked. It looks like it has pocket wear on it, yet is brand new and comes in a large, Pelican-style foam filled hard case. 

Here are pics of how mine arrived this morning: 















For those of you that have your golds in hand, how did it look upon opening? Is what I'm showing above what I should have expected? I know these types of lights are going to show machining marks, etc, but this doesn't appear to be that.


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## Gavin S. (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

That's a drag for a collectors piece to come in that condition. Looks like it was handled-used a bit.


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## wuyeah (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Not acceptable....My standard Ti do have machine marks but over all on surface, it was finished properly like how they should. From your picture it is not acceptable. You need to contact dealer or Sunwayman.


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## chris975d (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



wuyeah said:


> Not acceptable....My standard Ti do have machine marks but over all on surface, it was finished properly like how they should. From your picture it is not acceptable. You need to contact dealer or Sunwayman.



I've already contacted the dealer and they are looking into it for me. Although I'm not sure if anything can be done at this point (if indeed these marks are deemed out of the ordinary), as these lights are a very limited number, and obviously wouldn't have backstock available for a replacement.


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## peterharvey73 (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I received my Jetbeam TCR2 7 months ago, kind of like your Sunway photo above; not quite as bad.
After I gave it to my wife, and she mixed it with her keys, it got much worse than your photo above; albeit in just a week.
Somehow, Ti is a soft surface, and is easily scratched by coins and keys...


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## kreisler (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



peterharvey73 said:


> Somehow, Ti is a soft surface, and is easily scratched by coins and keys...


i received my Titanium itp a3 eos yesterday, brand-new and pristine. From youtube videos i knew that it would get scratched easily, e.g. when you take off the pocket clip and try to reverse it. so i did it, and yes it got scratched.

i am realizing that my anodized aluminum bodies (e.g. Xeno E03, with Fenix LD20 clip) dont get scratched this way. anodization chips off when the part hits the ground (concrete, stone, ..) but no scratches thru clip removal.

hmm.


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## aau007 (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Scared by your post. I immediately took mine out and put it under a magnifier to examine. Although mine has some tiny hair line marks here and there, the worse one is less than your last photo and I can barely see it with naked eyes.

I do have to admit that it is not as highly polished as I would like it to be given Sunwayman stated that it is supposed to be "high-end jewelry level titanium anodized, this light is extremely solid and amazingly scratch-resistant". My impression also is that the light should be even more scratch resistant than normal Ti light given the extra Ti annodization. It is definitely not as polished as pictured on their website but we all know how photos can be.


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## peterharvey73 (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Yes, I agree, when I received my titanium light, it was not as highly polished as I would like.
It was also not as polished as their photo on their website.
It even seemed second hand like the photos in the Opening Post, and so heavy and tiring in the hand after a while, so no more Ti lights for me, but initially the jewelry like photos really attracted my wife's attention...


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## chris975d (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



aau007 said:


> Scared by your post. I immediately took mine out and put it under a magnifier to examine. Although mine has some tiny hair line marks here and there, the worse one is less than your last photo and I can barely see it with naked eyes.
> 
> I do have to admit that it is not as highly polished as I would like it to be given Sunwayman stated that it is supposed to be *"high-end jewelry level titanium anodized, this light is extremely solid and amazingly scratch-resistant"*. My impression also is that the light should be even more scratch resistant than normal Ti light given the extra Ti annodization. It is definitely not as polished as pictured on their website but we all know how photos can be.



The part of their website that you quoted (I also bolded it above) is my biggest issue with the light. It's nothing like that (or their pictures) when in hand. It does seem like anodized aluminum is far more scratch resistant than Ti. But I already sort of knew this, being in the golf business. Ti is used routinely the the making of driver heads (golf clubs), and after a few weeks of having new stock on my shop's floor, the soleplates of most of the Ti clubs are scratched all to heck from people just lightly swinging/brushing them across the carpet of the shop.


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## sassaquin (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

My gold V10R Ti2 arrived yesterday and has scuff marks similiar to yours, but not quite as bad. I am extremely dissapointed and angry at the poor quality control on a $200 limited edition light. I may try to polish them out, but am fearful of making things worse. As chris975d said, probably nothing the dealer can do, so I guess I either live with it or get a refund. Other than the scuffs, my light is very beautiful and has no other cosmetic or functional issues.


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## egrep (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

OMG, This is devastating. Who would imagine the collectors light of the year would end up coming off like this? The photo in the first post may not be representative of the rest of the lights. Pictures I've seen so far seem to support this but the follow up posting on this thread by sassaquin needs photos or it didn't happen. (grin, but true...)

I so admire SWM and their products that I've got to assume this is anomalous and does not represent the vast majority of these lights as shipped. SWM just doesn't do that. But with growth often comes..... issues. SWM, say it aint so?!

IMO, SWM ought to as a *matter of pride* make whole those (few?) who received sub par lights, without requiring them (us?) to forfeit their light. They need to recall them for refurbishing at SWM's sole cost. They ought to provide some 'sweetener' to offset this damage to their reputation. I'd suggest a light or some kind to tide them over while they wait for their precious to return.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I expect the best of SWM and I'm sure they'll deliver.


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## chris975d (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



sassaquin said:


> My gold V10R Ti2 arrived yesterday and has scuff marks similiar to yours, but not quite as bad. I am extremely dissapointed and angry at the poor quality control on a $200 limited edition light. I may try to polish them out, but am fearful of making things worse. As chris975d said, probably nothing the dealer can do, so I guess I either live with it or get a refund. Other than the scuffs, my light is very beautiful and has no other cosmetic or functional issues.



I'd hold off on polishing them out if I were you, and contact your dealer (with photos) instead. Attempting to polish them out, as you said, may make things worse, especially if you wear through the gold anodizing. Your dealer can/should be able to forward the issue to the manufacturer. Where did you purchase from?


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## UpstandingCitizen (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

If any light I had purchased came like that, I'd send it back regardless of how much it cost. The fact that it happened on a $200 light does make it more painful though.


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## peterharvey73 (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



chris975d said:


> I'd hold off on polishing them out if I were you, and contact your dealer (with photos) instead. Attempting to polish them out, as you said, may make things worse, especially if you wear through the gold anodizing. Your dealer can/should be able to forward the issue to the manufacturer. Where did you purchase from?



You're right. I tried to polish the mats finished areas with my gold and porcelain finishing rubber tips, and it was good, but made it worse when I inadvertently slipped at certain areas.
We need some kind of a hi speed mop, to polish the fully polished parts...


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## Biomeccanoide (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I received the Ti2 gold yesterday with problem similar at the chris975d's problem. In the head I found a scratched area. It's not a big area but for a limited edition flashlight this is a big loss of value.










I buyed this flashlight in europe at _link removed_ and I e-mailed them about the warranty service but they not reply me! It's not good customer service. :thumbsdow


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## aau007 (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Now I need to pull out my jewel 10x magnifier to take a closer look. The OP's first photo seems to look having polishing problem inside the groves too (those silver color slots in the body).

BTW, do you guys notice that when you press the button, it wiggles all around? Then when pressing, feels like metal scratching metal. Is it a nature of Ti switch? Sorry for asking, I never had Ti switch before.

Wouldn't it be cool if that SWM logo on the Ti switch is lit up in the dark like a tritium? No, it doesn't, at least not for mine.


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## sassaquin (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



egrep said:


> OMG, This is devastating. Who would imagine the collectors light of the year would end up coming off like this? The photo in the first post may not be representative of the rest of the lights. Pictures I've seen so far seem to support this but the follow up posting on this thread by sassaquin needs photos or it didn't happen. (grin, but true...)



Oh, but sadly, it did happen.


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## swan (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

How different do they look with a real photo-send it back, poor machining, poor color.


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## FlashKat (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

At first I felt bad not buying one, but after seeing this thread I feel much better not spending my money.


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## sassaquin (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



aau007 said:


> BTW, do you guys notice that when you press the button, it wiggles all around? Then when pressing, feels like metal scratching metal. Is it a nature of Ti switch? Sorry for asking, I never had Ti switch before.



Never had a Ti switch either, but it makes my skin crawl-similar to hearing fingernails down a blackboard.


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## swan (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

How different do they look with a real photo-send it back, poor machining, color and qc.


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## threethrty (Dec 21, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

My gold #32 also has a few blemishes. They're not quite as bad as in any of the pictures above, but they're readily visible. My black #33 has less noticeable hairline scratches but upon closer inspection, you can see them. This is most definitely not something consumers should expect given that the Ti2s are supposed to be collectors editions. Yes, the lights work, but I didn't purchase the lights based purely on their function.


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## wuyeah (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Just when I thought I can trust SWM, they flushed themselves down on this "Limited Edition'.


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## roadkill1109 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

wow, so bad! to think those lights cost so much! it should be no less than perfection personified! limited run lights were bought to be collected and displayed in display cases, not to be EDC'd and bruised and scratched! the first few pics would indicate that it fell on a rough floor during packaging, that explains the scratches on the side, it scraped a rough surface. 

gee, makes me think twice about spending that much dough on those "commemorative" "limited edition" lights.... tsk tsk...


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## egrep (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

While this is heartbreaking and those with these lights have every reason to be dissapointed I'd hold off from making any quick judgements. We only know a part of the entire story. There is a person on flickr posting there as "JeddaWolf" who has lovely photos of these lights. There is another part of the story.

Edit: Closer inspection shows some minor (any is too much) scuffing on the gold. What can be seen of the black looks clear of blemishes. Still, let's hold our conclusions till all data is in and those responsible have had a chance to address the issues.

I live in the US and the vendor I purchased from only shipped all orders on Monday together. So I suppose those that have ordered overnight shipping will have theirs by now. I choose standard shipping and mine are not due for some time now. I look forward to more information on this topic of major concern to those of us who admire Sunwayman and their dealers for an excellent track record designing, building and selling high quality practical, tactical and collectible lights.

That's my $0.02¢ worth. Keep those pictures coming. Let's see the good lights too!

I am not affiliated with nor invested in any manner in SWM or any dealer. Just a happy flashaholic.


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## egrep (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Can we please see pictures of your lights? Even Cell phone pictures would suffice. Thank you.

I'll go ahead and start a 'damaged Ti2 Registry' here if that's OK? I've left out things like dealer which may factor in later but best not to stir things up at this point. What say you all? 

Note to Moderators: Am I OK here? If i'm breaking a rule please correct me and I'll never do it again. I admit it's been a few months since I read the rules. But I think I'm doing this right.

Gold V10R Ti2 Registry/Damage Tracking List; 89 Total gold Lights Made
So far only one unverified (No pic) black light reported damaged, when verified I'll add a column

chris975d 74 (pics)
biomeccanoide ?? Damaged (pics)
sassaqiun 80 damaged (pics)
threethrty 32 damaged. 'few blemishes' hairline scratches on the black #33 (Need pics please)
JeddaWolf(Flickr) 89 damaged (pics on flickr)
aau007 ?? Damaged (Need pics please)



threethrty said:


> My gold #32 also has a few blemishes. They're not quite as bad as in any of the pictures above, but they're readily visible. My black #33 has less noticeable hairline scratches but upon closer inspection, you can see them. This is most definitely not something consumers should expect given that the Ti2s are supposed to be collectors editions. Yes, the lights work, but I didn't purchase the lights based purely on their function.





aau007 said:


> Scared by your post. I immediately took mine out and put it under a magnifier to examine. Although mine has some tiny hair line marks here and there, the worse one is less than your last photo and I can barely see it with naked eyes.
> 
> I do have to admit that it is not as highly polished as I would like it to be given Sunwayman stated that it is supposed to be "high-end jewelry level titanium anodized, this light is extremely solid and amazingly scratch-resistant". My impression also is that the light should be even more scratch resistant than normal Ti light given the extra Ti annodization. It is definitely not as polished as pictured on their website but we all know how photos can be.


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## Craig K (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Just terrible that these lights came like this after seeing this thread I am so glad I did not buy one of these lights.


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## UpstandingCitizen (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Dang, I feel bad for all of you guys that received damaged lights. I hope that either the dealers and/or manufacturers will make this right for all of you.


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## peterharvey73 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

When I received my V10R Ti - it was flawless!!!
When I received my Jb TCR2 Ti, it had scratches all over it; not quite as bad as the photo in the opening post, but bad.
Somehow I suspect it had been *used *by the on-line retailer?
However, we were not properly informed that it was used, and there was no discount on the price. It was full price.

It was a case of either keeping it, or sending it back for a refund.
A tough decision.
I kept mine, but I wasn't happy, and still not exactly happy today.
If I had to do it again, I wouldn't mind sending it back for a refund, otherwise on-line retailers may continue to sell seemingly used lights, full of scratches, at full price...


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## UpstandingCitizen (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



peterharvey73 said:


> When I received my V10R Ti - it was flawless!!!
> When I received my Jb TCR2 Ti, it had scratches all over it; not quite as bad as the photo in the opening post, but bad.
> Somehow I suspect it had been *used *by the on-line retailer?
> However, we were not properly informed that it was used, and there was no discount on the price. It was full price.
> ...



That would be my concern too. As a consumer I'd hate to see the sale of damaged goods go undeterred (regardless of where/when said damage occurred assuming it happens before consumer takes possession) just because some flashlight enthusiasts want to hang onto a L.E. light.


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## italico (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Sunwayman ..... but quality control has failed or is absent? :thumbsdow:thumbsdow:thumbsdow


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## peterharvey73 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



italico said:


> Sunwayman ..... but quality control has failed or is absent? :thumbsdow:thumbsdow:thumbsdow




I don't have much evidence, but I suspect it is the retailer, not the manufacturer [not Sunwayman] - because my V10R Ti was delivered flawless!
However my one of five hundred limited edition Jetbeam TCR2 Ti was delivered full of scratches - it looked used - but I kept it because it was the last one.

I find it difficult to understand how the manufacturer could have caused scratches seen in the photos in this thread - these scratches seem to have been caused by using the flashlight..


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## aau007 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



UpstandingCitizen said:


> Dang, I feel bad for all of you guys that received damaged lights. I hope that either the dealers and/or manufacturers will make this right for all of you.


There is really not many ways to remedy this. The dealers only sell the lights and they have no more to offer any replacement.
1. The owner can return the light.
2. The owner can contact Sunwayman or thru the dealer, if they will take the light and repolish it but it will have to be sent back to China. Guess that would be a month round trip at least.
3. If choice #2 is not available or not acceptable, go to choice #1.
4. Sell it on the secondary market and see if you can make a few bucks but be honest about the flaws.
5. Stick it to yourself and keep the light.

Any other ideas on how Sunwayman can make good on this? Please don't blame the dealers although some may say that the dealers should have examained the lights when received from Sunwayman but this is really not their responsibility. If they did, that's just good faith.


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## italico (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



peterharvey73 said:


> but I suspect it is the retailer, not the manufacturer [not Sunwayman] - because my V10R Ti was delivered flawless!



Maybe... but would not be so many cases of damaged torches.


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## Biomeccanoide (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



aau007 said:


> BTW, do you guys notice that when you press the button, it wiggles all around? Then when pressing, feels like metal scratching metal.


The button of my Ti2 have same problem and sometime remain blocked down.

Someone has already contacted the SWM to see what solutions proposes us?


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## hazna (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I've found with Ti twisty lights they do feel more 'scratchy' than aluminum when twisting the head.

I'm surprised these lights have scratched so easily. Their coatings should be fairly scratch resistant. I believe the gold lights are TiN, and the black would be either AlTiN or 'DLC' coating.

(http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?258204-Exotic-Coating-Service-Update)

I'm guessing the marks happened either before or during the coating process.

Sorry to hear you guys having these issues with such an expensive 'collectors' item. It'll be interesting to see how sunwayman resolves this.


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## chris975d (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



aau007 said:


> There is really not many ways to remedy this. The dealers only sell the lights and they have no more to offer any replacement.
> 1. The owner can return the light.
> 2. The owner can contact Sunwayman or thru the dealer, if they will take the light and repolish it but it will have to be sent back to China. Guess that would be a month round trip at least.
> 3. If choice #2 is not available or not acceptable, go to choice #1.
> ...



It looks like you're accurate on your assessment of my/our possible remedies. Sunwayman has contacted me regarding my issues, and at this point, my only solution is to send the light back to them (in China) to be refinished. I'm guessing your estimate of a month turnaround time would be the absolute minimum I'd be without the light. 



peterharvey73 said:


> I don't have much evidence, but I suspect it is the retailer, not the manufacturer [not Sunwayman] - because my V10R Ti was delivered flawless!
> However my one of five hundred limited edition Jetbeam TCR2 Ti was delivered full of scratches - it looked used - but I kept it because it was the last one.
> 
> I find it difficult to understand how the manufacturer could have caused scratches seen in the photos in this thread - these scratches seem to have been caused by using the flashlight..



I doubt these issues are coming from the retailer, or are used lights...until this Monday, none of these lights were even released for there to be used lights customers have returned. As pointed out to me in a PM discussion with another CPF member here, this coating/surface treatment is fairly thin. With the severity of my scratching, if these had been made after manufacturing, the coating would have probably been scratched through and the natural color of the Ti (silver) would show through. Especially the deeper scratches I have in the head area of the light. But, every single flaw/scratch/scuff I have has the gold coating over the flaws, including in the "bottoms" of the deeper scores. This leads me to believe the coating was applied over them (as "hazna" has also assumed in the post above me). If that's indeed the case, then quite a few of these lights slipped through several levels of QC that I feel should have caught them.


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## aau007 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

On my second gold one, I am not as lucky. It's got small and tiny scratches scattered all around the light, one patchy spot I found so far and the finishing is dull overall, certain not SHINNY like the web site photo.


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## peterharvey73 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



chris975d said:


> I doubt these issues are coming from the retailer, or are used lights...until this Monday, none of these lights were even released for there to be used lights customers have returned. As pointed out to me in a PM discussion with another CPF member here, this coating/surface treatment is fairly thin. With the severity of my scratching, if these had been made after manufacturing, the coating would have probably been scratched through and the natural color of the Ti (silver) would show through. Especially the deeper scratches I have in the head area of the light. But, every single flaw/scratch/scuff I have has the gold coating over the flaws, including in the "bottoms" of the deeper scores. This leads me to believe the coating was applied over them (as "hazna" has also assumed in the post above me). If that's indeed the case, then quite a few of these lights slipped through several levels of QC that I feel should have caught them.



It is possible that the scratches came from the manufacturer and escaped quality control.
I suspect not a previous customer, but the dealer, or staff at the dealership, may have used it for a week, or at least handled it carelessly for even a few days before selling it?

It's just that I have two titanium lights, and one was delivered in _perfect _condition with NO scratches, while the other was delivered with scratches all over it, in an used looking condition; thus titanium lights can be delivered in perfect condition.

Furthermore, when I quoted that I had purchased number 266 of 500 from a particular dealer in Australia, another CPF Member named Rat, told me that another CPF Member had purchased one from the same dealership previously, and sent it back because it was delivered full of scratches in a similarly complained used condition?:shrug:

Looking back, I should have done what you did - sent it back to China for re-finishing - I just didn't know that it could be re-finished back then.
Chris, when you get yours back from China, can you all let us know the results and especially how well it is re-polished?
If they do a good job of yours, I will actually send mine back to China, and _pay _them to re-polish mine...


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## Jrubin (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



sassaquin said:


> Never had a Ti switch either, but it makes my skin crawl-similar to hearing fingernails down a blackboard.



My Black one is flawless on the looks but i do have the TI switch makes a grating sound thing going on. it wakes my wife up at night if i use it, so it back to my reg V10r. but i do love the light besides that


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## chris975d (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



peterharvey73 said:


> It is possible that the scratches came from the manufacturer and escaped quality control.
> I suspect not a previous customer, but the dealer, or staff at the dealership, may have used it for a week, or at least handled it carelessly for even a few days before selling it?
> 
> It's just that I have two titanium lights, and one was delivered in _perfect _condition with NO scratches, while the other was delivered with scratches all over it, in an used looking condition; thus titanium lights can be delivered in perfect condition.
> ...



At this point, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it. Sending it back for refinishing just doesn't sit well with me. Unless they could somehow surprise me, that would be a long time to wait to get a light that should have left the factory flawless. There are only 88-89 of these gold lights that they even released...how hard would it have been to lay hands on each and every one to check to make sure they are perfect? A day, tops? I do have a person interested in buying it, I'm leaning hard at just selling it (I would send it for refinishing if the owner wanted that) and just being done with it.


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## Death's Head (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Looks like the gold lights have the majority, if not all the issues with the scratches.


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## aau007 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Another thing about sending it back to China for repolishing is the risk of losing the light in transit + now you are incurring additional cost of owning the light. I think Sunwayman should arrange with the dealer you purchased from to take care of it so you are only responsible for sending the light back to the dealer.


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## peterharvey73 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Yes, I'd send it back to the dealer, to then forward it under registered post back to China.

I wonder if refinishing it requires water? Or is it done dry???
If so, they may have to disassemble the light, re-finish it, then reassemble the light...


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## shane45_1911 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I would have been quite disappointed to receive a L.E. light in the condition that some of these pictures indicate.

Good luck to those hoping for resolution. Please let us know what SWM does to help.


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## dieselducy (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

NOW I don't feel so bad about missing up on this. I think ill keep my olight titanium infintum and be happy with that.


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## jake royston (Dec 22, 2011)

+1. I really wanted one of these lights,
But now, not so much.
Sunwayman really needs to step up and replace these lights for whoever got a blemished one. Especially since there was only 190 made!! I could see this with a production run, but they didn't make that many!!


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## dieselducy (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



jake royston said:


> +1. I really wanted one of these lights,
> But now, not so much.
> Sunwayman really needs to step up and replace these lights for whoever got a blemished one. Especially since there was only 190 made!! I could see this with a production run, but they didn't make that many!!



I was very upset that i missed out BUT after seeing this, not so much any more. Anyway I still want the V10R anniversary edition soley because of neutral white.


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## NoFair (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



dieselducy said:


> I was very upset that i missed out BUT after seeing this, not so much any more. Anyway I still want the V10R anniversary edition soley because of neutral white.



I didn't get a Ti2 because it wasn't neutral. Very happy I got the anniversary edition


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## Chrisdm (Dec 22, 2011)

I got two ti2 blacks, both of their finishes is perfect. One of them is already at the modder getting the 4000k treatment..


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## stoli67 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Who is modding your V10R?


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## aau007 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Chrisdm said:


> I got two ti2 blacks, both of their finishes is perfect. One of them is already at the modder getting the 4000k treatment..


I could not get the black one. So I got 2 gold hoping someone will trade me a black one. I guess there goes my idea.


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## dy5 (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

My gold ti2 (44/89) is good compared to some of the disappointing copies others have shown. Some micro-scratches, a few very small rub marks. I was more disturbed by the switch - same thing others have described: bad scraping, occasionally snagging. That mostly goes away if you are sure to push straight in the middle of the plunger, and I got used to it. Still, it doesn't seem like that's something you'd have to worry about.

On the good side, it works great, beam is nice, the continuous adjustment is a good touch and, blemishes and all, it's still a nice looking light.


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## Chrisdm (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



stoli67 said:


> Who is modding your V10R?



Vihn.


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## sassaquin (Dec 22, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



chris975d said:


> It looks like you're accurate on your assessment of my/our possible remedies. Sunwayman has contacted me regarding my issues, and at this point, my only solution is to send the light back to them (in China) to be refinished. I'm guessing your estimate of a month turnaround time would be the absolute minimum I'd be without the light.



chris975d- 
Did you contact SWM directly, or did they contact you after you contacted the dealer? 
I contacted my dealer through email this afternoon describing problem and attached photos, but no reply yet. It's too bad this happened so close to the holidays as a lot of companies shut down or give workers vacation days. Most likely I'll won't have an answer about what to do until next week.

If SWM can guarantee me that my light will be returned in perfect condition with no additional damage, I will gladly sent it back to China (at their expense, of course).


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## Death's Head (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

So with the scrapping of the button, I had the same experience from an all Ti Jetbeam Military model a few years back. I expect it from a metal switch. Does the aftermarket Ti switch for the V10R Ti do the same thing?


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## jalal20 (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I was very close to pulling the trigger on this light but as I had already ordered 2 in that same week, I stopped.
Sunwayman's description of this light was "*Made of high-grade titanium alloy, high-end jewelry level titanium anodized, this light is extremely solid and amazingly scratch-resistant*"
How is that scratch resistant if it already arrived in such a condition, I would contact sunwayman regarding this issue and don't let it go because u think its a simple thing, this is a collector's edition light, it should be flawless, I like my normal lights to be flawless setting aside what i want for my collector's edition lights if i at anytime decide on getting one since I like to have user lights only.


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## mohanjude (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Ok I was worried after reading this thread as I was waiting for my Black and Gold Ti2 to arrive from the US to the UK.
I got the lights today and they are flawless. No scratches to be seen with the naked eye. So it appears that not all the torches are affected with this unfortunate issue.

Having been really keen on the Gold I now think the Black is better. the Gold colour on the torch is quite pale - similar to brass instead of the rich copper Gold colour on their promotion pictures.

I am happy nevertheless. I will continue to use the Vr10 Ti as I think it is my favourite EDC.


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## Chrisdm (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Biomeccanoide said:


> The button of my Ti2 have same problem and sometime remain blocked down.
> 
> Someone has already contacted the SWM to see what solutions proposes us?



Yes, I forgot to mention, both of my black ones do that too... Kinda scrapes on its way down, and can stick down if you don't press it straight down. I think lubrication will help this... One of mine got a ku electronic switch and the other is getting trits installed in the factory ti switch. I will look into a little lube when I reinstall that factory switch. Otherwise I'm just going to run electronic switches in both of them.


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## octaf (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Well, anodizing isn't really scratch resistence, different from coatings like AlTiN, TiN. 
It's rather cosmetic approach.
Still, the conditions on the pic's are not acceptable.
I hope sunwayman will take those with bad finishes back and re-do the job for the customers.


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## Hiro Protagonist (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

My black Ti2 arrived yesterday and it has a scratch in the body near the tailcap, some rubbing marks, and two pinprick sized spots of missing ano. 

I really like how the V10R looks in black, but the Ti2 LE run is a huge QC fail for SWM!


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## sassaquin (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Well, my dealer never responded to my email, so I called and was told the following are my only options because it is a limited edition light:
1. Return for credit
2. Return to them and they will forward to SWM in China for repair which will take over 90 days (should be returned to me in Spring 2012). 
3. Sell for profit on Ebay. 

Maybe, I'm crazy (or stupid), but I'm going to have my dealer return it to SWM and hope for the best. It still blows my mind that my light ever left Sunwayman's door when I think of how many hands must have touched it before shipping. :shakehead

Of interest - I asked my dealer if he had any other damage reports and was told there was only one other customer and he didn't want to deal with the hassle of returning it to China and was going to sell on Ebay.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



peterharvey73 said:


> I don't have much evidence, but I suspect it is the retailer, not the manufacturer [not Sunwayman] - because my V10R Ti was delivered flawless!
> However my one of five hundred limited edition Jetbeam TCR2 Ti was delivered full of scratches - it looked used - but I kept it because it was the last one.
> 
> I find it difficult to understand how the manufacturer could have caused scratches seen in the photos in this thread - these scratches seem to have been caused by using the flashlight..



I came to this thread expecting to be drooling over those who already have their light. I paid extra for Priority shipping and it was supposed to be here the 22nd per USPS but it hasn't made it yet and won't be here until at least the 24th if I'm lucky. So to see all these issues I'm a bit relieved in an odd sort of way but very sorry for those who were expecting what Sunwayman promised and didn't deliver. This will be my first Sunwayman and I am not real surprised although their reputation didn't seem to make this likely. 
I would not blame the dealers or retailers at all especially since the marks are not showing titanium natural silver color. They are certainly poor machining/finishing marks which makes Sunwayman's statement about jewelry quality finish an outright lie with the proof before us. I'm personally not going to be that upset about the finish though if mine is that bad as it will make it much easier to be a 'user' and I think it would be a shame to not use this high binned blazing bright light. If it was really as good as they advertised I'd be torn to get it out of the safe and it might end up being a safe queen. Also since I can anodize Titanium I might just try polishing it out a bit and re-anodizing although I don't have the ability to do the nitride coating they claim. From the pics I've seen though I'm not even sure it's a nitride coating. It looks more like standard Titanium anodizing. I may be wrong on that though as pics can be deceiving. And despite the cosmetic issues I still think the price is reasonable for a Titanium light. Think about McGizmo's light's prices or the HDS Titanium prices and this is a bargain. It is just disappointing that Sunwayman sales marketing was not matched up with actual product quality. Happy Holidays everyone.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I just rechecked the the specs on the Sunwayman web site and a dealers site. No mention of Titanium nitride coating. I thought someone mentioned that. So I was right about it not looking like Titanium nitrideand knowing that I can take care of any cosmetic problems myself. For anyone with access to a variable HV DC power supply it's not hard at all to do. Actually if I recall correctly Gold comes in at just around 10 volts DC.


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## kkeyser (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I know everybody wants everything perfect. I also know that things are either perfect or total poop on the internet with no in-between. You see this with movie reviews, amazon product reviews, etc. If someone misses out on a deal at best buy, they make a post and exclaim they hope best buy goes out of business, whereas the next poster will revel in the fact they just picked up 7 copies of the latest mega game for $5. 

Knowing that, it is understandable that we would have a thread like this, but I would think the vast majority are very pleased with their lights. I understand being a little disappointed if I ordered a premium light and it arrived scratched, but from everything I have read, titanium scratches if you look at it wrong. So it is not unheard of to have a titanium light scratched. I have also read about others receiving titanium anything (flashlights included) and having it arrive with scratches. It happens.

I understand if you were one of the lucky few to actually be able to buy one and it arrived scratched and you were disappointed. But that disappointment should be tempered. Does the light still work? Is the beam green? Does the light fall apart in your hand? How is everything else on the light?

It seems crazy that I have yet to hear of any failure with these lights, or any other sunwayman lights (I am sure they are out there), and yet I have just read several posts saying that sunwayman has a total lack of quality control because of some scratches. Really? I have had failures on nitecores, jetbeams, and zebralights, and I have yet to have a problem with sunwayman lights (granted I just picked a few up during all the black friday deals, but by this time with the other brands, I had already experienced failures). All of the failures with the previously mentioned lights happened within the first week, so those were obvious quality control issues. And these weren't cosmetic issues, these were total failures.

But a scratch? I feel like I want to put in that video of iverson talking about practice, and substitute 'scratches' for 'practice'. Scratches? Scratches? We're talking about scratches?

I don't mean to belittle anybody with scratches on their ti2s, but I do think some perspective is sorely lacking in the majority of this thread. Who knows, maybe I'm the one who is crazy?

I do think it would be a sign of goodwill for sunwayman to do something or give some kind of discount concerning the ones with significant scratches.


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## Rokron (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

At this time I am not able to afford one of these lights but one thing is for sure, if I plunked down 200 of my hard earned dollars for a Collector’s Edition Ti2 it damn well better pristine. After all it is a Collectors Edition. What good is it to a collector if it’s all scratched up?


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## hazna (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Rokron said:


> if I plunked down 200 of my hard earned dollars for a Collector’s Edition Ti2 it damn well better pristine. After all it is a Collectors Edition. What good is it to a collector if it’s all scratched up?


+1
If you bought a brand new car for recommended retail price, is it okay if it comes with noticeable scratches? It stills runs and drive like normal.


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## peterharvey73 (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Rokron said:


> if I plunked down 200 of my hard earned dollars for a Collector’s Edition Ti2 it damn well better pristine. After all it is a Collectors Edition. What good is it to a collector if it’s all scratched up?



+2


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## kreisler (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Rokron said:


> At this time I am not able to afford one of these lights but one thing is for sure, if I plunked down 200 of my hard earned dollars for a Collector’s Edition Ti2 it damn well better pristine. After all it is a Collectors Edition. What good is it to a collector if it’s all scratched up?


-3


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## Lou Minescence (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Sad to hear about the scratched up lights. I'ts a buzz killer. I have an anniversary edition V10R and had given thought to how a warranty would be handled. I had a V10R R5 go bad and I sent it in for another warranty replacement. No problem. But I'm sure if my anniversary edition goes bad I wouldn't be able to just have it replaced. Just sing that song from the sixties " I will never find another you".


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## PoliceScannerMan (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I totally understand all of the folks who are frustrated with the finish on their Ti2's. A collectors or limited edition anything should be better than stock.

My light also arrived with carry marks. When I first opened the case I was like WTF?

While I am a collector, I am not a collector. I DO NOT believe in shelf queens, the nicer the light, the more it should be used guys. All my lights get use, clipped to a pocket with coins and keys. :rock:

So yes, I was annoyed, I like to do the damage!!! 

Come on SWM! Get it together! 

Here's 10/89 goldy


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## peterharvey73 (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

PSM, judging from the photos, your's is beautifully finished - enjoy...


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## PoliceScannerMan (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



peterharvey73 said:


> PSM, judging from the photos, your's is beautifully finished - enjoy...



The photos dont show the fine scratches that cover the body. There are a few areas where the marks are concentrated, like the light was in a box where it vibrated against the other golds transit. Maybe they shipped the whole batch of golds in no more than plastic baggies?


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## UpstandingCitizen (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

To the people that are considering keeping their damaged lights: doesn't that course of action just make it more likely that this will happen again to future consumers?

I understand how badly you guys have wanted this light, but to accept a damaged one and not do anything about it just seems to send the wrong message to the manufacturer.


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## chris975d (Dec 23, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



UpstandingCitizen said:


> To the people that are considering keeping their damaged lights: doesn't that course of action just make it more likely that this will happen again to future consumers?
> 
> I understand how badly you guys have wanted this light, but to accept a damaged one and not do anything about it just seems to send the wrong message to the manufacturer.



But, so far the solution that has been presented isn't the most desirable. Sending a brand new light back to China for a 6-8 week refinish job isn't really acceptable, at least in my opinion. Not with the "jewelry like" condition these lights were supposed to come in.


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## UpstandingCitizen (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



chris975d said:


> But, so far the solution that has been presented isn't the most desirable. Sending a brand new light back to China for a 6-8 week refinish job isn't really acceptable, at least in my opinion. Not with the "jewelry like" condition these lights were supposed to come in.



I completely agree--if it were me buying and receiving the light (which I should note, I did not), then I'd send it back right away for a full refund (including return shipping costs).


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## aau007 (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



PoliceScannerMan said:


> The photos dont show the fine scratches that cover the body. There are a few areas where the marks are concentrated, like the light was in a box where it vibrated against the other golds transit. Maybe they shipped the whole batch of golds in no more than plastic baggies?


One of mine does look like that at that distance.


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## aau007 (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



UpstandingCitizen said:


> To the people that are considering keeping their damaged lights: doesn't that course of action just make it more likely that this will happen again to future consumers?
> 
> I understand how badly you guys have wanted this light, but to accept a damaged one and not do anything about it just seems to send the wrong message to the manufacturer.


I am still debating whether I should return the lights. Not sure if I want to keep a "collector's item" that's not worth collecting.


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## octaf (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I feel sorry for those who received no-good-one.
Mines are flawless.

Sunwayman has been open and generous in customer services in my experience. I hope they'll do the right thing for such occasions whatever that might be.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

octaf you HOARDER you :santa: Hey I'll just say the biggest issue here is the way their AD read - straight from their web site: "high-end jewelry level titanium anodized" unless their is a language problem there what we are seeing does not fit that description at all.

I would like hearing from some people on beam tint and brightness etc. - maybe even a shot with it turned on inside.


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## octaf (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



matrixshaman said:


> octaf you HOARDER you :santa: Hey I'll just say the biggest issue here is the way there AD read - straight from their web site: "high-end jewelry level titanium anodized" unless their is a language problem there what we are seeing does not fit that description at all.
> 
> I would like hearing from some people on beam tint and brightness etc. - maybe even a shot with it turned on inside.



Hey, thanks for reminding me that I'm a hoarder. :devil:

Tint of all three lights of mine, is pretty much white w/o noticeable hue of greenish or yellowish or blueish.

Beam pattern of XM-L on this T2 has bigger hot spot in the middle and much brighter spills of light around than the first Ti model of XP-G R5.


cheers,


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## matrixshaman (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Thanks octaf, I would gladly take a few body scratches over a yuck green tint light. I'll be thankful for a nice tint.


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## Chrisdm (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Is SWM were smart, they would issue an apology and a recall. Then they should have the blemished lights quicky and expertly refinished, getting it done right the second time. This would be about the only way for them to save face with their costumers (and more importantly for them, their potential future customers) watching this blunder. Lets just hope they realize that doing the right thing ethically is also the smartest long-term business move they could make.


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## chris975d (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Chrisdm said:


> Is SWM were smart, they would issue an apology and a recall. Then they should have the blemished lights quicky and expertly refinished, getting it done right the second time. This would be about the only way for them to save face with their costumers (and more importantly for them, their potential future customers) watching this blunder. Lets just hope they realize that doing the right thing ethically is also the smartest long-term business move they could make.



I have been corresponding with the CEO of Sunwayman for the past couple of days. Right now, the only solution/fix to the issue is unfortunately sending the lights back to be refinished, with an approximate turnaround time of 60-90 days. From what I'm being told, they (Sunwayman) don't do the finish of the Ti2 limited edition lights in house, so they have to set that up with the company they contracted that task to. This whole thing stinks all the way around. I could partly accept it if this was just a regular, everyday stock item. But this is/was marketed specifically as "collector's edition", very limited production light. There's 89 of these gold lights...total...worldwide (seems to be that the gold ones have the majority of the issues0. How hard would it have been to make sure that all of them shipped in advertised condition?


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## Rokron (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I totally agree with UpstandingCitizen. We need to let the manufacture know that there is a problem that needs to be addressed so they can fix it. After all you spent $200.00 of your hard earned money for a “Collectors Edition” flashlight and I would hope that you would expect perfection. Let Sunwayman know how you feel and if they should make good and offer to refinish the light plus shipping to and from, do it! So it’ll take one to two months, at least you will get what you paid for, a Collectors Edition V10R Ti2. It doesn’t matter how many bad lights there are, don’t let them get away with shoddy craftsmanship, Sunwayman is better than that.  


UpstandingCitizen said:


> I completely agree--if it were me buying and receiving the light (which I should note, I did not), then I'd send it back right away for a full refund (including return shipping costs).


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## Rokron (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I totally agree with UpstandingCitizen. We need to let the manufacture know that there is a problem that needs to be addressed so they can fix it. After all you spent $200.00 of your hard earned money for a “Collectors Edition” flashlight and I would hope that you would expect perfection. Let Sunwayman know how you feel and if they should make good and offer to refinish the light plus shipping to and from, do it! So it’ll take one to two months at least you will get what you paid for, a Collectors Edition V10R Ti2. It doesn’t matter how many bad lights there are, don’t let them get away with shoddy craftsmanship, Sunwayman is better than that. 


UpstandingCitizen said:


> To the people that are considering keeping their damaged lights: doesn't that course of action just make it more likely that this will happen again to future consumers?
> 
> I understand how badly you guys have wanted this light, but to accept a damaged one and not do anything about it just seems to send the wrong message to the manufacturer.


----------



## sassaquin (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



UpstandingCitizen said:


> To the people that are considering keeping their damaged lights: doesn't that course of action just make it more likely that this will happen again to future consumers?
> 
> I understand how badly you guys have wanted this light, but to accept a damaged one and not do anything about it just seems to send the wrong message to the manufacturer.



Even if you don't want to send your scratched light back for refinishing, at least let Sunwayman or your dealer know about the dissapointing finish. Their quality will not improve if they don't know the extent of the problem.


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## Judgedog (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I am one of the lucky ones who received a light that appears to me to be "pristine". Mine is #24/89 in gold. I have not taken any pictures, but as best as I can see, there are no scratches, scrapes or dings. I was planning to EDC mine, but seeing that there are so many out there that are not pristine, it seems that mine needs to remain "pristine". Perhaps I should just get a regular V10R or a V10R ti and EDC that, while keeping this one on a shelf!


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## matrixshaman (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Got mine at the last minute. And yes it's got some scuffs although I'd consider them small. I think I was actually more disappointed in the beam pattern. Tints okay but beam is fairly ringy - something I didn't expect with an XM-L emitter and from SM. It seems to have a very light OP reflector which is fairly deep and I suspect that accounts somewhat for the ringiness. Good things is the ring variable adjustment is buttery smooth from a super low to blazing bright. It's so low you can look it right in the eyeball  Switch looks really nice, Lettering is top notch, but the switch does have that scraping-the-chalkboard sound someone mentioned at times. Not sure if that will smooth out of if it can be fine tuned. Pics later... Like I mentioned before it just makes it easier to insure this doesn't end up a safe queen for me. I'll give it a 8 out of 10 overall and that's probably going easy on SM.

I'll add that I'm not a big on white wall hunting but I do it just to get an idea of some of the qualities. This was very noticably ringy anywhere indoors. Not a huge thing but I've got a lot of lights that look better. I'll post later how it seems outdoors. I suspect it will be fine there.


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## kreisler (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Chrisdm said:


> This would be about the only way for them to save face with their costumers (and more importantly for them, their potential future customers) watching this blunder.


I dont believe that this thread is harmful to SWM's good reputation as premium Ch*nese flashlight producer or that any of it is a turn-off for future purchasing. SWM isnt directly responsible for the imperfection of the finish job since it was outsourced to some contracted finisher. I consider myself a prospective SWM customer and when i plan to purchase one of their products (old or forthcoming models), this incident wont influence my decision but have dropped out of my little mind.

we're talking here about minimal scratches in the polish. SWM as a FL company stands for much more than that. Than polish.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I'll beg to slightly differ with you kreisler. A manufacturer that sells a product IS directly responsible for their quality control and marketing. Those two things do NOT match up well on this deal. Personally I'd prefer they eat it a bit on this and offer everyone who can prove with a picture the issues a cash rebate or at least a good discount on another Sunwayman product. I'd consider $25 a minimum to $50 as a reasonable rebate or discount. That would save a lot of people a lot of trouble on both ends. Those who want a light as described should also have the option of sending it in if they choose.


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## Chrisdm (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



kreisler said:


> I dont believe that this thread is harmful to SWM's good reputation as premium Ch*nese flashlight producer or that any of it is a turn-off for future purchasing. SWM isnt directly responsible for the imperfection of the finish job since it was outsourced to some contracted finisher. I consider myself a prospective SWM customer and when i plan to purchase one of their products (old or forthcoming models), this incident wont influence my decision but have dropped out of my little mind.
> 
> we're talking here about minimal scratches in the polish. SWM as a FL company stands for much more than that. Than polish.



So if you bought a new car that had scratched paint on delivery, it would be ok for the car dealer to say "We aren't responsible for the paint job, we sent that out to a painter... " :shrug:


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## sassaquin (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Sunwayman saw my post and pictures on this thread and sent me a PM today. 
They basically said the following:
First they apologized that I received a damaged light. They said it is possible their colleagues mistakenly shipped out a few defective lights that got through last check and the rejection rate of this light was very high and they had to go through several rounds of check-up and some slipped through. The issue is being forwarded to the related parties in the company and they will try their best to improve the QC process. They need my light for warranty and regret to tell me that based on my pictures, it is nearly impossible to refinish it and a refund will be issued - please contact my dealer for refund.

Yesterday, I talked to my dealer and was told refinishing was possible and to return it and they would ship it off to Sunwayman. They emailed me a pre-paid UPS shipping label and I packed everything up and dropped it off at the UPS Store. Now, Sunwayman tells me the light can't be refinished and to wait for a refund. I'm confused.

At first I was angry and dissapointed, now I am just sad. Sunwayman acknowledged their mistake, apologized and is trying to resolve the problem as best they can. I still think they make really good lights and I will continue to purchase them. 
Hopefully refund credit will be issued quickly. c'est la vie!


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## TyJo (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I don't own these limited addition lights or any Sunwayman light, but wanted to share my "outsider" perspective. I have bought some pre-orders, bought somewhat hard to get lights, and received defective lights. When a situation arises when I am not satisfied I expect the manufacturer to allow a full refund at minimum. I also expect that they will fix the light or exchange it, I don't mind paying return shipping. In this particular case if Sunwayman refinishes the lights I would consider that great customer service. Yes they should have done a final QC check, yes the light is their responsibility and they can't transfer blame to the outsourced finishing, and yes this is a limited edition, the light should be perfect. Although waiting is a pain, if they step up and refinish these limited edition lights at their own cost I will be impressed.


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## Phil40000 (Dec 24, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

This is one of those internet forum threads that genuinely saddens me, especially at this time of year. Some of the vitriolic language and statements in this thread regarding and describing fine scratches on a flashlight can only be politely described as disturbing to read. Please do not misunderstand me, i tried unsuccessfully to buy one of these lights and if it had arrived looking as some of the lights pictured here did i would be somewhat deflated and unhappy with my purchase. It would appear that the manufacturer has accepted that some lights were sent out to customers that were below finished standard. What else can the manufacturer do than apologise and request that the below par lights are returned and re-finished? If customers are unhappy with this option, or the timescale mentioned then it would also appear that the manufacturer will refund the customers hard earned money. I believe the company is relatively new to the flashlight business and no doubt they will learn from it and do their level best to prevent it happening again. 

I can totally understand that some owners are feeling somewhat disappointed after competing online to buy the lights in the 1st instance and then waiting patiently for them to arrive. But after reading some of the dramatic, chest beating comments in this thread i genuinely started to worry about the mental health and emotional stability of some forum members. 

Before wishing me ill feeling for this post i would suggest, beg even, that some of the more, er, affected people show this thread to some of their piers, friends, co-workers and family and then garner opinion. One only needs to turn on the television to see people being tortured, beaten or starving to death and living in true, abject misery. How would you feel telling them about how 'heartbroken, shocked, terrible, fearful, scared, angry, painful and devastated' you are about your $200+ flashlight?

Happy Christmas and seasonal holidays CPF. God bless us, every one.


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## kreisler (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Phil40000 said:


> This is one of those internet forum threads that genuinely saddens me, especially at this time of year. Some of the vitriolic language and statements in this thread regarding and describing fine scratches on a flashlight can only be politely described as disturbing to read. Please do not misunderstand me, i tried unsuccessfully to buy one of these lights and if it had arrived looking as some of the lights pictured here did i would be somewhat deflated and unhappy with my purchase. It would appear that the manufacturer has accepted that some lights were sent out to customers that were below finished standard. What else can the manufacturer do than apologise and request that the below par lights are returned and re-finished? If customers are unhappy with this option, or the timescale mentioned then it would also appear that the manufacturer will refund the customers hard earned money. I believe the company is relatively new to the flashlight business and no doubt they will learn from it and do their level best to prevent it happening again.
> 
> I can totally understand that some owners are feeling somewhat disappointed after competing online to buy the lights in the 1st instance and then waiting patiently for them to arrive. But after reading some of the dramatic, chest beating comments in this thread i genuinely started to worry about the mental health and emotional stability of some forum members.
> 
> ...



time to close this thread, period.


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## Vesper (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Phil40000 said:


> Before wishing me ill feeling for this post i would suggest, beg even, that some of the more, er, affected people show this thread to some of their piers, friends, co-workers and family and then garner opinion. One only needs to turn on the television to see people being tortured, beaten or starving to death and living in true, abject misery. How would you feel telling them about how 'heartbroken, shocked, terrible, fearful, scared, angry, painful and devastated' you are about your $200+ flashlight?
> 
> Happy Christmas and seasonal holidays CPF. God bless us, every one.



I'd be hacked at a $200 scratched up flashlight too, but well said all the same... Totally agree with your perspective.


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## emu124 (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Phil40000 said:


> Before wishing me ill feeling for this post i would suggest, beg even, that some of the more, er, affected people show this thread to some of their piers, friends, co-workers and family and then garner opinion. One only needs to turn on the television to see people being tortured, beaten or starving to death and living in true, abject misery. How would you feel telling them about how 'heartbroken, shocked, terrible, fearful, scared, angry, painful and devastated' you are about your $200+ flashlight?



I can understand your point of view.
And of course there are more serious problems in the world we live in then a few scratches on a flashlight.
That's for sure.
But this reasoning you can bring on every topic. In the end it means we have to accept everything because it could be worse.
IMO this goes way to far ... anyway with my poor english .

So back on topic which still is flashlights.

I was really happy when I scored a black and a gold version of the Ti2.
The more I was disappointed when I received the two lights.
As already mentioned several times in this post, if I buy a light that's advertised as "Collectors edition" and "high-end jewelry level titanium anodized" and pay $200 for it, then I expect an absolutely flawless flashlight.
Looking at the scratches on my gold Ti2 (The black one isn't as bad as the gold), I assume the damage happens before anodizing.
I own two V10R Ti already and I'm very happy with these two. If I compare the V10R Ti/V10R Ti2, to me it seems 
the whole machine work on the Ti2 isn't as nice as the Ti version.

As sassaquin posted (and if I get right) I have two choices:
-Keep the flashlight.
-Send it back and get my money back.

I would send the light back two SWM to refinish it, but I already thought that it would be almost impossible to do that.
So I decided to keep the two V10R Ti2.
We all know s**t happens, everywhere and all the time. Still i would appreciate a rebate or discount from SWM, just as a sign of good will to their customers.

Just my 2c to this story :shrug:.

And since it did'nt happen without pics....


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## Chrisdm (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I agree that one who feels "devistated", or "hearbroken" over the condition of a flashlight may suffer from a severe lack of perspective. Yet this thread (and its continuance) is still quite relevant, to track the ongoing issue, its documentation and its attempts at resolution. While this isn't a major world issue, it is a major issue in the world of fine flashlight collection.


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## notsofast (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



kreisler said:


> time to close this thread, period.



Sorry, there is way too much valid information that can and needs to be shared on this subject.

I would be very unhappy if a collector light came in the condition that I see from the pictures in this thread.

A possibility I see is that SWM sacrificed QT to make a deadline. Bad decision in my opinion

From the beginning of SWM's involvement on CPF they have been a class act. I will be surprised if they don't handle this situation in an appropriate manner.


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## aau007 (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

For a limited edition item and what the manufacturer claims to be collector, I believe it is reasonable of the buyers to expect it to be prestine, without flaws. From what I have counted, out of the gold color, there is at least a 5% what I consider to be defective rate. That's is high in this situation.
The way I see it, there are different groups of buyers of this light.
1. The ones who are buying this as a true collector's item and will only put them on a shelf and occasionally bring it out to show off and not really use this as a flash light.
2. Then those who play with the light but not EDC. Those who will actually use the light on special ocassions.
3. EDC users. These will EDC the light because they like the look and functions.
Depending on which type of user you are, you may or may not mind having some small buff marks or hairline scratches. Regardless, we all should not be receiving 2nd quality light, especially for this special light as advertised by SWM.

I am vouching for the following choices for all 1st owners of the lights.
1. Total recall. Recall all lights in questions at SWM's cost. Get them all back to China for refinishing or remake. In the mean time, refund full purchasing cost to buyer. When problem is resolved, send all lights back and offer the same lights to original buyer to repurchase. Yes, this will cost some hard dollars to SWM and some work on the dealers/distributors but SWM needs to chaulk this up as the cost for a lesson.
2. Option to return the light covering return shipping cost to the dealer you purchased from. This should be an obvious choice.
3. Depending on the severity of the condition, offers anywhere from $50 to $100 cash refund to buyer and the buyer keeps the light. This basically drops the price of the light to the same as the anniversary edition.
4. If hard cash is not desireable, offers anywhere 125% of $50 to $100 coupon that can be used for another SWM product at ANY authorized SWM dealers/distributors.
5. Offer anywhere 150% of $50 to $100 coupon that can be used for another SWM product at the specific dealer/distributors you purchased the light from.
6. For those who think they have a light in such bad conditon that is not worth any of the choice 3, 4, 5, see choice #1.
For choices 3, 4, 5, the severity needs to be defined. I don't believe anyone says about damages as to like dings or chips or scratches to bare metal. Those should be returned.
1. Buffing patches.
2. 3 or more scratch marks that are longer than half inch.
3. Misc scrach marks or hairline marks that totals more than 10.
In my opinion, 
if you have all 3, severe.
if you have 1 plus 2 or 3, severe.
if you have 2 and 3, severe.
if you have 1 only, medium.
if you have 2 and 3, medium.
if you have 2 or 3, light.
I think I have covered all combinations.

IMO, aside from solution #1, which will maintain SWM's advertising facts for this light, all other options will damage the collection value of this light.


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## chris975d (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



aau007 said:


> For a limited edition item and what the manufacturer claims to be collector, I believe it is reasonable of the buyers to expect it to be prestine, without flaws. From what I have counted, out of the gold color, there is at least a 5% what I consider to be defective rate. That's is high in this situation.
> The way I see it, there are different groups of buyers of this light.
> 1. The ones who are buying this as a true collector's item and will only put them on a shelf and occasionally bring it out to show off and not really use this as a flash light.
> 2. Then those who play with the light but not EDC. Those who will actually use the light on special ocassions.
> ...



In my communications with the CEO, the choices we currently have are to:

1. Send the light back to your retailer for a refund, or

2. Send the light back to your retailer to send to Sunwayman for refinishing. No refund in the meantime. 

These are the choices we have. No others at this point.


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## Chrisdm (Dec 25, 2011)

Those sound like fair options to me, sounds like they are going to do the right thing.


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## aau007 (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



chris975d said:


> In my communications with the CEO, the choices we currently have are to:
> 
> 1. Send the light back to your retailer for a refund, or
> 
> ...



I am sorry to say that I am disappointed at Sunwayman as a manufacturer with that response.

That's is simply irresponsible in my book. My interpretation to that response is as follows.
Sunwayman makes a limited edition light that turns out to have questionable and/or inconsistant quality, in contrast to many's believe in their advertised condition. Then they turn around and tell people that they can return them if they don't like it, or we will refurbish your light. What I see coming is; if you still don't like the refursbished light, we will keep refurbishing it until you like it or you quit, whereas each refurbish cycle takes upward of 3 months to turn around. WOW.

They must have something in their stack of cards that they can afford to be that arrogant.

So if this is the only way they are willing to go, this limited edition will end up to have 4 catagories:
1. 1st quality in prestine condition as advertised.
2. 2nd quality lights that people are keeping with blemish at different degrees.
3. Refurbished lights that may or may not match the advertised quality.
4. Returned lights that may or may not end up in secondary markets depending on what the dealers/distributors decide with Sunwayman.

In any case, if a limited edition item ends up being divided into the above catagories, it will surely impact its collection value. 

If at the end, that's all they are willing to offer, this will definitely add their company's value (most likely in a negative way) in my scord card accordingly.


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## Chrisdm (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

aau007, if you don't think their offer to refund or repair the lights in question is adequate, then what do you propose they do?


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## sassaquin (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



chris975d said:


> In my communications with the CEO, the choices we currently have are to:
> 
> 1. Send the light back to your retailer for a refund, or
> 
> ...



Sunwayman's PM to me stated that based on looking at the pictures of my light, it would be next to impossible to refinish and only a refund would be given. Chris975d's light looks far worse than mine, so go figure how they are evaluating what can be refinished. Too bad because I really wanted to opt for refinishing.


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## hazna (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I assumed since this was called Ti2 (scratch resistant titanium coating on titanium), the coatings were TiN and AlTiN. Can someone with other lights, that also have this sort of coating, confirm whether its TiN/AlTiN or not?


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## chris975d (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

We're you talking to Mr. Zhou (CEO), or the user who posts here (and in the marketplace) as "Sunwayman"? From what I've gathered (I've talked to both), they are not the same person. The "Sunwayman" here seems to be a PR person for the company. But I could be wrong. 




sassaquin said:


> Sunwayman's PM to me stated that based on looking at the pictures of my light, it would be next to impossible to refinish and only a refund would be given. Chris975d's light looks far worse than mine, so go figure how they are evaluating what can be refinished. Too bad because I really wanted to opt for refinishing.


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## shane45_1911 (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Phil40000 said:


> Before wishing me ill feeling for this post i would suggest, beg even, that some of the more, er, affected people show this thread to some of their piers, friends, co-workers and family and then garner opinion. One only needs to turn on the television to see people being tortured, beaten or starving to death and living in true, abject misery. How would you feel telling them about how 'heartbroken, shocked, terrible, fearful, scared, angry, painful and devastated' you are about your $200+ flashlight?



Wow dude. There is such a thing as relative perspective. I am sure no one in this thread is comparing being "devastated" by a scratched flashlight, to any type of real-world hardship...

They are simply pissed that they received a damaged limited edition flashlight - as they should be.

Lighten up. No one is trying to say that a scratched flashlight trumps world hunger.


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## sassaquin (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



chris975d said:


> We're you talking to Mr. Zhou (CEO), or the user who posts here (and in the marketplace) as "Sunwayman"? From what I've gathered (I've talked to both), they are not the same person. The "Sunwayman" here seems to be a PR person for the company. But I could be wrong.



Hmm...Good question, the PM was sent on the Marketplace from Sunwayman's authorized manufacturer's account and it was signed "Best Regards, Sunwayman." I'm thinking Mr. Zhou being the CEO of Sunwayman would properly identify himself.

Edit - Just looked at the message again and it was wriiten in plural terms such as "We", "Our", and "Us", which sounds like a PR person speaking for the company.


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## aau007 (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Chrisdm said:


> aau007, if you don't think their offer to refund or repair the lights in question is adequate, then what do you propose they do?


I think the ultimate solution should be a total recall, like solution #1 I proposed.


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## Fitz (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



hazna said:


> I assumed since this was called Ti2 (scratch resistant titanium coating on titanium), the coatings were TiN and AlTiN. Can someone with other lights, that also have this sort of coating, confirm whether its TiN/AlTiN or not?



The coating on my black model looks comparable to my Draco, which is AlTiN. No noticeable blemishes on mine.


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## Chrisdm (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



aau007 said:


> I think the ultimate solution should be a total recall, like solution #1 I proposed.



Recalls are typically for a defect across the board. I wouldn't send mine back to China for $1000, its perfect out of the box... What counts is that they have apparently offered to correct the bad ones.


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## aau007 (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Chrisdm said:


> Recalls are typically for a defect across the board. I wouldn't send mine back to China for $1000, its perfect out of the box... What counts is that they have apparently offered to correct the bad ones.


Well yes. The implication is obviously for the ones which the owner are willing to. For the ones that Sunwayman believe are not able to refinish, they should take the bad ones back and re-make new ones with the same serial number, instead of "fine, you don't like it, we will give you your money back" kinda of attitude.

For their limited edition, they should have gone thru the extra mile to examine each light in detail before sending them out. Any imperfection, they should have send them back to the finisher (one of the posts said they did not do it in house) either to repolish or remake. This is called Quality Control. They should not promise, make and deliver a light beyond their capabiltiy and just shrug it off with "I'll just give you your money back".


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## octaf (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



emu124 said:


> I would send the light back two SWM to refinish it, but I already thought that it would be almost impossible to do that.
> So I decided to keep the two V10R Ti2.
> We all know s**t happens, everywhere and all the time. Still i would appreciate a rebate or discount from SWM, just as a sign of good will to their customers.




Hi, emu124

I can undersatand your disappointment and disease on this matter.
I think it's not a bad idea for you to send it back to SWM and let them do it again for you, since it seems that you'd like to keep those two lights.
I have similar experience regarding V10R Ti original model.
I know it takes time, but SWM is good at their after servicies in my experience.
The reason I say this is that even though you get a partial discount for this incident, I'm pretty much sure you'll feel disease whenever you look at these two lights in the future. Well, just my thought and 2 cents.


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## octaf (Dec 25, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Fitz said:


> The coating on my black model looks comparable to my Draco, which is AlTiN. No noticeable blemishes on mine.



I wouldn't count on that unless SWM says so.
It is my general observation that these manufacturers do not give you the spec in detail, but very vague nuance, such as "high grade Titanium Alloy", or "Jewelry level coating" whatever. Probably, that's exactly why this kind of promotion is adapted. So, assuming could hurt a lot in my opinion.
I really hope that manufacturers provide the spec's as is, not just only SWM, but whoever the manufacturers are.


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## nbp (Dec 26, 2011)

It's definitely a bummer that some have scuffed up lights. 

But for those affected, I'd say keep the lights, use 'em and enjoy 'em. Many people EDC significantly more expensive lights than these, and find pleasure in doing so. They are flashlights after all. 

I'm sure some would deride me for my "No Shelf Queens" policy, but I'm ok with that. I also can't help but think that while they are "Collector's Edition" lights, they are still SWM lights. I really don't think these pieces are going to skyrocket in value over the next few years like other discontinued lights from some of our esteemed custom builders here have. Look at previous limited run lights from Fenix and 4Sevens as an example. If you get back what you paid you're doing well. I don't think some scuffs are going to significantly devalue these lights in a year or two when people sell them. 

That's just my opinion. I'd say keep them and enjoy them for what they are: nice little flashlights. But that's me. :shrug:


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## TyJo (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

It's interesting to see the difference of opinions in this thread. I'll admit it is impossible to put myself in the owners shoes as I did not buy one, but I gave my "outsider" opinion here. I am wondering.... Did anyone buy this light as an EDC light or plan on using this light frequently? I tend to have that EDC/I'm gonna use this light/no shelf queen attitude, but I haven't gotten into limited edition lights or similar offerings. The lights discussed in this thread would definitely be shelf queens for me (maybe that's why I haven't purchased such lights).

Also, I cannot understand why a refinishing would be an unacceptable option for owners (if it is offered), except for the obvious shipping/time hassle? If I had a light with a defective finish, sent it back, they repaired/replaced the finish to humanly possible perfection at their own cost, and it was returned to me as a beautiful, unused, perfect light, I just don't understand what the problem would be? On the other hand, if the refinishing is not an option... Is not the main selling point of these lights the unique finish, that is, wasn't this marketed as a shelf queen or at least a light with a perfect "jewelry" finish?


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## UpstandingCitizen (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

The intended use of the light should have absolutely zero bearing on something like this.

It's very simple...if you buy an item then you should rightfully expect (and demand) that you get what you have paid for. It shouldn't matter if it's a $5 light, a $50 light, or a $500 light.


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## kreisler (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



aau007 said:


> In any case, if a limited edition item ends up being divided into the above catagories, it will surely impact its collection value.


+ 1
never thought about it. good point. and true.


octaf said:


> I'm pretty much sure you'll feel disease whenever you look at these two lights in the future.


i share this view. to me the joy from some product acquisition arises from the overall story and achieved minimum price. i am more enthused and positive towards (using/reviewing/..) a particular popular most-wanted flashlight model if i bought it much cheaper :nana: than the average Mr. Ignorant; likewise, i dont keep blemished flashlights in my possession but rather wish to get rid of them out of my collection and out of my household and out of my mind. so what do i do with a blemished light? i either try to sell it, send it back to the dealer or manufacturer, or trash it -- the latter option in order to express my irritation (and frustration) about the flashlight, its story of acquisition, and the whole situation.

most of all i want to get rid of the irritation out of my mind.

pathetic? sure. 
it's part of the collectionism and flashaholism :duh2:


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## emu124 (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Statement of apology – V10R Ti2​ Edition from SWM CEO:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...gy-%96-V10R-Ti2-Edition&p=2738114#post2738114


----------



## kkeyser (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



UpstandingCitizen said:


> The intended use of the light should have absolutely zero bearing on something like this.
> 
> It's very simple...if you buy an item then you should rightfully expect (and demand) that you get what you have paid for. It shouldn't matter if it's a $5 light, a $50 light, or a $500 light.



The fact is, sunwayman has offered to refund in full, if you are dissatisfied. That is as good as it gets. You don't get to 'win a prize' if your light doesn't meet your expectations and get more than what you paid for in return. If you were to sue a company and win, you would 'be made whole'. That means, you would get your purchase price back. There is no additional for pain and suffering, regardless of how rational or irrational your expectations are.

This also doesn't mean that sunwayman deserves to go out of business. Were mistakes made? Apparently. But this is just a stumbling block, and if you want to use this episode to justify why you won't ever buy their products, then that is your prerogative. However, I just recently purchased the v10a, and I don't think there is a better bang for the buck flashlight available. Not even close. So if you want to miss out on that, go right ahead. It's your loss.

The fact of the matter is, if I had bought such a light as this, I would likely be disappointed if I noticed the scratches, but that would likely fade after a day or so. I would then enjoy my light and appreciate it for what it is.

I am not a collector, nor am I some valuation expert, but I would think with the limited number available, the condition isn't going to factor in to any noticeable degree. By that, I mean, there are less than 200 of these worldwide, regardless of color. You know about half of those at least will never be sold. Of those, how many are in your particular country? So if you want one, you'd better be ready to pony up, regardless of condition. Otherwise somebody else will have already bought the light while you are nitpicking over scratches and demanding pictures to prove condition. 

And if somebody is so dissatisfied that they return their lights to sunwayman to be destroyed, that is just one less available light.

The only thing I really see coming out of this is that sunwayman, and other flashlight companies, will tend not to want to make nice flashlights like these at reasonable prices. It just won't be worth it to them because there will be no way they can win. Companies need to make a profit and budget their time and resources. So that would leave us with $400-500 customs. I'd rather have an option in the middle. I think $150 for a standard ti is very reasonable. I also think $200 for a special edition that comes in a $30 retail value box incredibly worth it.

If I were sunwayman, I would offer a full refund for anybody who originally purchased this light. I would then throw in some kind of limited coupon, like the ability to purchase a v10r or v10a regular for $60 or so. Maybe the option to get a regular ti for $120 or something. Those prices are off the top of my head, so that discount may be too little, or too much. But I would try to make it a decent coupon, but only for one item, and make it reasonable.

I think sunwayman tried to do something special, and it has backfired. Unfortunately, there are some who won't let it go, even after the offer has been made multiple times to refund. It has now become a situation I doubt sunwayman, or any other company, will want to pursue in the future. And why would they? If they make a minor mistake, and scratches are minor, they will get raked over the coals repeatedly.

Sunwayman has admitted there is a problem and offered to buy these items back. If you are so dissatisfied that you cannot stand to look at your light, there is your way out. You would lose zero money. It may not be the ideal resolution, but at this point, there is no ideal resolution. If anything, how many companies would even acknowledge a mistake was made? In a public forum? At least this shows if you do buy a sunwayman product, they will stand behind it. You are not at risk of losing your money. You might not get what you want, but is that ever the case? If you go see a movie, and it turns out to be total crap, you don't get your money back. At least in this case, if that's what you want, you will get your money back.


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## sassaquin (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Okay, Sunwayman acknowledges the problem, apologizes and offers refunds for the damaged lights. Fair enough.
However, last Friday, I was told by my dealer that refinishing would be possible and I should return the light to them. Being OCD, I quickly packed it up and dropped it off at The UPS Store that afternoon. On Saturday, Sunwayman sends me a PM stating refinishing is impossible and a refund will be sent. Oh great, my light is trucking down I-95 destined to be scrapped. What bothers me is that even though I was very unhappy with the scrapes and scratches on my light, I never had the opportunity to decide if I wanted to keep it or see if someone could polish them out. Scratches suck, but no light is worse.
Goldy #60 is gone.


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## Chrisdm (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Did you return it to the dealer or directly to SWM? Either way you should demand it back if you want to keep it.


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## Bigmac_79 (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



sassaquin said:


> Okay, Sunwayman acknowledges the problem, apologizes and offers refunds for the damaged lights. Fair enough.
> However, last Friday, I was told by my dealer that refinishing would be possible and I should return the light to them. Being OCD, I quickly packed it up and dropped it off at The UPS Store that afternoon. On Saturday, Sunwayman sends me a PM stating refinishing is impossible and a refund will be sent. Oh great, my light is trucking down I-95 destined to be scrapped. What bothers me is that even though I was very unhappy with the scrapes and scratches on my light, I never had the opportunity to decide if I wanted to keep it or see if someone could polish them out. Scratches suck, but no light is worse.
> Goldy #60 is gone.



Wow, yeah, contact whoever you sent it to (SWM or dealer) and get the final word on what's going to happen to it, and if they're planning to keep it and give you a refund, tell them to send it back.

----

So, it seems to me there are two types of people. 1) If you planned on getting a collector's item to keep perfect and possibly sell at a profit in the future, a scratched up light won't work, because that obviously decreases the value of a colector's piece quite a bit. You have the option for a full refund, and you can take it if you want. You don't get your collector's piece or the profit from it, but you don't loose anything either. (I missed the original sale of these, but this would have been my position. I'll be trying to get a hold of a non-scratched one second hand if I can. I'd be pretty upset if I ordered a jewelry quality light and it came scratched up, but this doesn't lower my opinion of SWM by much. A full refund is completely fair.)

2) If you planned on using the the V10R Ti2 special limited edition as a work light, and received a scratched up one, you probably don't care too much, because you'll be scratching it up anyway. You're probably in the minority, this isn't really that style of flashlight. In the long run, you're right, this isn't that big of a deal, but for those who were really looking forward to something special, it's pretty disappointing. So take it easy on everyone else


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## octaf (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



sassaquin said:


> Okay, Sunwayman acknowledges the problem, apologizes and offers refunds for the damaged lights. Fair enough.
> However, last Friday, I was told by my dealer that refinishing would be possible and I should return the light to them. Being OCD, I quickly packed it up and dropped it off at The UPS Store that afternoon. On Saturday, Sunwayman sends me a PM stating refinishing is impossible and a refund will be sent. Oh great, my light is trucking down I-95 destined to be scrapped. What bothers me is that even though I was very unhappy with the scrapes and scratches on my light, I never had the opportunity to decide if I wanted to keep it or see if someone could polish them out. Scratches suck, but no light is worse.
> Goldy #60 is gone.



Yes, this is another problem that can happen. Try to communicate with SWM. It's too bad if it turns out the way you wouldn't want. :shakehead
But I'm sure SWM will listen, hopefully.


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## sassaquin (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Chrisdm said:


> Did you return it to the dealer or directly to SWM? Either way you should demand it back if you want to keep it.



My light was sent to my dealer and I'm trying to arrange a return.
Sunwayman sent me another PM - they apologized again, thanked me for being understanding and stated they have been in touch with my dealer regarding my light. It doesn't change anything, but I feel like they really do care.


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## notsofast (Dec 26, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



sassaquin said:


> Goldy #60 is gone.



It is gone only if you want it to be gone. Call your dealer and tell him your want it. After all you sent it in to be refinished. Surely you know this.


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## sassaquin (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



notsofast said:


> It is gone only if you want it to be gone. Call your dealer and tell him your want it. After all you sent it in to be refinished. Surely you know this.




I'm trying to arrange its return, but there's many a slip twixt cup and lip.

Edit update - Dealer cheerfully offered refund or return of light at their expense.


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## mohanjude (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



> You might not get what you want, but is that ever the case? If you go see a movie, and it turns out to be total crap, you don't get your money back. At least in this case, if that's what you want, you will get your money back.



Kkeyser... That is so true. The number of times I have been to a rubbish movie or even worse paid top money to celebrate at a Restaurent and been disappointed .... Wish I got a refund each time. 

The Sunwayman V10R Ti is one of my favourite torches and I use it everyday. I think it is fantastic value for money for a beautiful Titanium torch. I am glad it was not a limited edition as I can go and buy it anytime and recommend it to any of my non flashaholic friends who also appreciate it. Having bought the Ti2 in Gold and Black which I received in excellent condition I can feel the pain of the forum members who got scratched torches. I think if I received a scratched torch I would be disappointed but in the end keep it as it is a limited run. I would not return it for a refund as I won't be able buy another one. If Sunwayman fixed the problem and released it as non limited edition then I don't know what I would do. Would I care about it been exclusively numbered but scratched? 

I personally don't like limited runs as it makes the torches very exclusive and the resulting euphoria that surrounds them. Make it available for everybody to enjoy.

I hope that Sunwayman will release new designs around the V10r in other Titanium non anodised finishes and perhaps materials such as Brass or Copper if they are comfortable with working with these materials. They could offer a discount to customers who decided to accept a defective limited edition Ti2 as form of a good will gesture.

I think your comment is a very valid one in that I don't want Sunwayman or any other manufacturer avoiding new designs in the fear that it will backfire on them. They will be increasingly risk averse as no manufacturer wants negative publicity. This limited run was done to promote their product and not to set out to upset their customers. The reason they probably decided to do such a small quantity in a limited run was because of the difficulties they may have encountered. After all for a limited limited run this torch is not that much more expensive than their regular Titanium version. My experience in other collectables such as fountain pens etc is that limited Editions tend to be x5 to x10 times more expensive. The limited runs of other collections tend to be slightly larger in number say upto 500.


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## BillMPL (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



mohanjude said:


> They could offer a discount to customers who decided to accept a defective limited edition Ti2 as form of a good will gesture.


This is exactly what I think they should do. They should have offered the scratched ones for less in the first place. I'm sure they would have been bought up and everyone would have been happy.



mohanjude said:


> This limited run was done to promote their product and not to set out to upset their customers.


Then you would have thought they'd be more careful in what they sent out. I have a hard time believing they didn't notice the scratches, and if they didn't, then they have some serious problems in their quality control.



Bigmac_79 said:


> I'd be pretty upset if I ordered a jewelry quality light and it came scratched up, but this doesn't lower my opinion of SWM by much. A full refund is completely fair.


A full refund was totally necessary, not just a nice gesture. This isn't a matter of personal preference, there is actually something wrong with the product. I think this does lower people's opinion of SWM. The next time they're offering a limited edition collectors item I'm sure people will be a little hesitant about purchasing.


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## Bigmac_79 (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



BillMPL said:


> ...A full refund was totally necessary, not just a nice gesture. This isn't a matter of personal preference, there is actually something wrong with the product...



I agree. In my dictionary, "fairness" is closer to "justice" than "niceness". I meant that a full refund is exactly what ought to happen for those not satisfied with the light, just like if I order any other product that comes to me damaged. :thumbsup:


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## davyro (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I've been looking at a V10R Ti as the light looks a real good buy,i own a few more expensive lights & it must be said the lights i already own have travelled from the U.S to the U.K & when they've arrived
everyone of them was in a perfect condition.It doesn't matter to me how sorry SWN are, there quality control is now provern to be very poor.So there in no way i would be buying a high end light from a 
company that doesn't inspect it's product thoroughly.I feel really sorry for the people who have bought one of the gold Ti2 thinking they had a great collectable, only to end up with a refund & no light at
all.At the end of the day we think we get what we pay for & usually this is reflected perfectly with flashlights.The quality of a $200 edc light should be something to be really proud of.One of my favourite lights
is a Jetbeam BC10 a quite cheap edc light to buy.I recieved that in perfect condition & i would buy from this company again no problem because of this light.I think SWN have blemished what was a growing
reputation in a very bad way,after all the V10R Ti2 was there flagship light.:shrug:


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## Chrisdm (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I think they would deserve to be forgiven if they had been willing to refinish the blemished lights. But instead we got excuses as to why they can't afford to have the lights fixed. Its a shame they don't see the long term value in getting these blemished lights refinished properly. Sure it would cost them some money now, but no NEARLY as much money as much money as the hit on their reputation will cost them in the long run... They could have salvaged that long term cost by fixing the blemished lights.



davyro said:


> I've been looking at a V10R Ti as the light looks a real good buy,i own a few more expensive lights & it must be said the lights i already own have travelled from the U.S to the U.K & when they've arrived
> everyone of them was in a perfect condition.It doesn't matter to me how sorry SWN are, there quality control is now provern to be very poor.So there in no way i would be buying a high end light from a
> company that doesn't inspect it's product thoroughly.I feel really sorry for the people who have bought one of the gold Ti2 thinking they had a great collectable, only to end up with a refund & no light at
> all.At the end of the day we think we get what we pay for & usually this is reflected perfectly with flashlights.The quality of a $200 edc light should be something to be really proud of.One of my favourite lights
> ...


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## kkeyser (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



davyro said:


> I've been looking at a V10R Ti as the light looks a real good buy,i own a few more expensive lights & it must be said the lights i already own have travelled from the U.S to the U.K & when they've arrived
> everyone of them was in a perfect condition.It doesn't matter to me how sorry SWN are, there quality control is now provern to be very poor.So there in no way i would be buying a high end light from a
> company that doesn't inspect it's product thoroughly.I feel really sorry for the people who have bought one of the gold Ti2 thinking they had a great collectable, only to end up with a refund & no light at
> all.At the end of the day we think we get what we pay for & usually this is reflected perfectly with flashlights.The quality of a $200 edc light should be something to be really proud of.One of my favourite lights
> ...



I have to think this is a troll. Saying sunwayman's qc is worse than jetbeams because there were some scratches on a super premium offering, vs. jetbeams that actually fail to work? Seriously? You are a troll if that is what you are saying.

Again, I understand the disappointment if you received one of these lights and it was scratched, but how many actual people had scratches? 

But comparing a light that is sent out with scratches vs a light that is sent out that doesn't work is ridiculous. I have personally had jetbeams that didn't work. I have read accounts of jetbeams that didn't work. Quality control is not pefection, it is a numbers game. I have also read of problems with ra lights, and everybody seems to love ra lights. Every manufacturer will have issues, including light manufacturers, even on special runs. It happens. It doesn't mean that manufacturer has shoddy qc. It does highlight the fact you are a troll, so we did at least get some useful information out of your post.

Being upset that you misread scratch-resistant as scratch-proof should be your problem, stop making it everybody else's. The same thing goes when you read stainless steel. That doesn't mean that steel will never rust, just that it is less rust prone than regular carbon steel. 

Show me where on the marketing info it ever said 'this item will NEVER scratch'.


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## kkeyser (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Chrisdm said:


> I think they would deserve to be forgiven if they had been willing to refinish the blemished lights. But instead we got excuses as to why they can't afford to have the lights fixed. Its a shame they don't see the long term value in getting these blemished lights refinished properly. Sure it would cost them some money now, but no NEARLY as much money as much money as the hit on their reputation will cost them in the long run... They could have salvaged that long term cost by fixing the blemished lights.



If I was a manufacturer and saw this, I would not think, 'hey, he's right, we need to fix those lights.' I would think, 'Hey, I really don't want to deal with all the b.s. again. For what, a limited run? Well, if we do another limited run, let's make sure we price the light at a minimum of $800.'

I do hope they do more limited runs in the future, but I also hope they do about 10% more and hold back that 10% to do warranty work in cases like this.

But then again, if I was a competitor of sunwayman, I would be posting things about how horrendous a scratch was and how I would never want to order from a company that had the audacity to send out lights with scratches on them. That way they would hopefully stop doing limited runs and taking my business.

If you had read their explanation, you would know why refinishing is not an option. 

They have done just about everything reasonable regarding this matter. They have acknowledged the problem. They have taken responsibility for it. They have offered a full refund for it. They are a flashlight company, not a custom light builder. They are not set up for custom builds. The fact that you want them to be, or expect them to be, is unrealistic. Could they do more? Sure. I have stated previously I think they should offer some type of limited coupon for one light or something similar, but refinishing these is not an option. I understand if some want that to be an option, but it isn't. Wanting a $500 mcgizmo for $200 apparently results in some having scratches.

I think I am done with this thread. I am not getting paid to post here and don't work for any flashlight manufacturer, and I am starting to think that more than a few on this thread do work for some flashlight manufacturers, otherwise, why would they be so dogged in bashing a light they don't have and tying that in to never buying that company's products ever? It seems the ones who actually have this light and have scratches on them seem more reasonable than those who don't. I simply find it impossible to believe that level of being a whiny-butt comes without being paid. So have at it.

sassaquin, good luck with getting your light back, but I have to agree with notsofast, the dealer you sent it to will have no problem sending it back to you if that's what you want.


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## budynabuick (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Police
[QUOTE="PoliceScannerMan said:


> The photos dont show the fine scratches that cover the body. There are a few areas where the marks are concentrated, like the light was in a box where it vibrated against the other golds transit. Maybe they shipped the whole batch of golds in no more than plastic baggies?





PoliceScannerMan said:


> The photos dont show the fine scratches that cover the body. There are a few areas where the marks are concentrated, like the light was in a box where it vibrated against the other golds transit. Maybe they shipped the whole batch of golds in no more than plastic baggies?





I can't believe they even sent them out. the op's l light looks as though it was carried in a pocket full of ROCKS while the other looks as though it might not have enough gold on it or they over polished. As a auto body man the one light (the one without the scratches) reminds me of mottled metal flake. If the painter does not have his pressure, volume, fan, distance,speed mixture proper it will mottle the base and then you top coat you cant polish it out. So it appears the first light was coated over a poor substrate while the second one does not have enough gold on it or was over polished. I just got a Klarus Midas Torch and it is flawless. folks at a get together the other night thought mine was a 3 oz dowel of gold till i hit them with the 85 lm strobe. I think i may have even converted a few. But seriously, a properly prepped substrate and gold plated shoud be slick as glass! Under a magnifier glass i can see a little orange peel (one small srea) but very minor on my Midas. i am, needless to say, very interested how sunwayman (sounds like a super hero) will handle this. I did read some were afraid (the name change) they may see a decline in QC there. totally unacceptable! It all depends on how they handle it which i believe they will do right. But on the other hand did they think customers would accept this? 
Keith


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## stoli67 (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

My black just arrived without a mark on it.... so some good ones must have gone out......


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## houtex (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

My #54/89 came in today. I gave it an 9 out of 10 on looks. A line blemish that runs about 1/4 away around the top just above the switch ring.

The metal rear switch makes a squeaking noise when you push on it. Just a little annoying.

The beam is not as nice as my A.E. V10. The A.E. is more orange peel, Ti2 only slighty.



All in all I'm very happy with my light.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

You guys remember condition is kind of like tint. Near mint to some, is a user to others. Surface scratches bother most, but not some.


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## davyro (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



kkeyser said:


> I have to think this is a troll. Saying sunwayman's qc is worse than jetbeams because there were some scratches on a super premium offering, vs. jetbeams that actually fail to work? Seriously? You are a troll if that is what you are saying.
> 
> Again, I understand the disappointment if you received one of these lights and it was scratched, but how many actual people had scratches?
> 
> ...





I'm a troll because i gave my honest opinion & it's not to your liking or agreement.I do own Ra lights & they were in perfect condition when i recieved them.Just like my Jetbeam,Thrunite,Nitecore,Led Lensers.Mag's & even my very cheap Xeno.So tell
me if you'd bought off all these companies & everyone was fine & you see a companies flagship light landing at someone's in the state in the pictures above.Who would you avoid in the future?


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## Diablo_331 (Dec 27, 2011)

emu124 said:


> Statement of apology &#150; V10R Ti2​ Edition from SWM CEO:
> 
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?255122-Corporate-News-Statement-of-apology-%96-V10R-Ti2-Edition&p=2738114#post2738114



Did anyone understand any of that?


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## matrixshaman (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



kkeyser said:


> I have to think this is a troll. Saying sunwayman's qc is worse than jetbeams because there were some scratches on a super premium offering, vs. jetbeams that actually fail to work? Seriously? You are a troll if that is what you are saying.
> 
> Again, I understand the disappointment if you received one of these lights and it was scratched, but how many actual people had scratches?
> 
> ...



I don't have any problem with what davyro said and largely agree with him. There is no reason I see to start name calling on him. In fact the statement about Jetbeam is one other manufacturers might want to take notice about. Jetbeam has had from early on some of the best quality finishes of any light I've seen. I own at least 6 Jetbeams I can think of right off and they all are perfect finishes and many were bought second hand. I still say if a manufacturer is going to make big claims regarding finish of a special edition they had better have their act together. And since we are only talking less than 200 units I'm sure just one person could have inspected all of them in less than half a day. I think they knew about it but rather than pull the scratched ones they saw the dollar signs those represented and wanted to push them all out the door. In this case greed = damaged reputation. That's MY speculation and MY opinion and in my experience it's usually the reason behind most customer dissatisfaction with regards to manufacturers. BTW I still like the light overall and have been using it around home. It's a blast to light things up with and the quick smooth adjustment for brightness control is one of the best I've seen. 

I'd like to make one other note and request. The switch on mine has stuck in the down position several time in addition to the sraping noise it makes sometimes.  Has anyone else had the switch stick? It appears it gets wedged at an angle and sticks. Just another little annoyance in what I thought would be a very refined light. Has anyone had a similar problem with the switch?


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## chris975d (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



houtex said:


> My #54/89 came in today. I gave it an 9 out of 10 on looks. A line blemish that runs about 1/4 away around the top just above the switch ring.
> 
> The metal rear switch makes a squeaking noise when you push on it. Just a little annoying.
> 
> ...



Complete side note here, but after seeing the above pic from Houtex, I'm wondering about the numbering on SWM's limited edition lights. I'm assuming the black/red Anniversary Edition he photoed above is his (it's in there with his #54 gold Ti2), yet, the CEO of Sunwayman supposedly keeps #1's of limited editions for himself. You can see that here in the 2nd post in the "Statement of apology" thread over at CPF. http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...-Ti2-Edition&p=2695401&viewfull=1#post2695401. Maybe he/they decided to ship/sell the #1 anyway?

*Nevermind- Houtex explained in post below.


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## houtex (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I won #1 in SWM's first giveaway contest.


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## chris975d (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



houtex said:


> I won #1 in SWM's first giveaway contest.



Ah! Very nice! I didn't know that. Wish I had one of those (red/black AE editions) instead of my gold one. I like the looks a lot more.


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## chris975d (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



matrixshaman said:


> ...I'd like to make one other note and request. The switch on mine has stuck in the down position several time in addition to the sraping noise it makes sometimes. Has anyone else had the switch stick? It appears it gets wedged at an angle and sticks. Just another little annoyance in what I thought would be a very refined light. Has anyone had a similar problem with the switch?



The metal switch does tend to bind on the metal retention ring quite a bit. I don't know if it would free up a bit with continued use. If I ever do decide to use my Ti2 on a daily basis, I'd probably just install the rubber switch cover (included with the light) to avoid that irritating metal on metal sound/feeling that comes from the metal button cover. That, or install one of Steve Ku's electronic switches if he decided to do another batch in the near future.


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## Diablo_331 (Dec 27, 2011)

davyro said:


> I'm a troll because i gave my honest opinion & it's not to your liking or agreement.I do own Ra lights & they were in perfect condition when i recieved them.Just like my Jetbeam,Thrunite,Nitecore,Led Lensers.Mag's & even my very cheap Xeno.So tell
> me if you'd bought off all these companies & everyone was fine & you see a companies flagship light landing at someone's in the state in the pictures above.Who would you avoid in the future?



I agreed with your post earlier. I was looking forward to purchasing my first SWM before I found this thread. Obvious lack of QC. I also do not agree with how they are handling the situation. I see myself as a fair person so I will not do SWM the diservice and write them off before seeing how this plays out.


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## Dan FO (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

They gave a money back warranty, that is good enough for me. I own one of the regular Ti V10R's and at $138 that was a bargain and more light than I expected. Will I buy another one of their lights? In a New York minute. If you don't like the light get your money back. I think they got the message that they can't please some of you and I don't blame them for not trying. Some customers can't be pleased. I dealt with customers that couldn't be pleased for years. The secret is give them their money back and send them on their way.


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## Lou Minescence (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

If I don't follow at this thread for a few hours, more pages pop up. Am I right in concluding that most people received a scratched light of some sort ? My guess would be that Sunwayman got themselves backed into a corner by numbering the lights. They probably realized there were the finishing issues and had to release the lights as is due to the sequential numbering and commitments. The original Ti series had no numbering. Discard a light that doesn't meet quality control and no one misses it.


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## Kilted (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Mine arrived today 80 / 99 black. No problems.

=D~~ Kilted


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## BarryH (Dec 28, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

No problems with my number 70/99 Black.


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## madecov (Dec 28, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



kkeyser said:


> I know everybody wants everything perfect. I also know that things are either perfect or total poop on the internet with no in-between. You see this with movie reviews, amazon product reviews, etc. If someone misses out on a deal at best buy, they make a post and exclaim they hope best buy goes out of business, whereas the next poster will revel in the fact they just picked up 7 copies of the latest mega game for $5.
> 
> Knowing that, it is understandable that we would have a thread like this, but I would think the vast majority are very pleased with their lights. I understand being a little disappointed if I ordered a premium light and it arrived scratched, but from everything I have read, titanium scratches if you look at it wrong. So it is not unheard of to have a titanium light scratched. I have also read about others receiving titanium anything (flashlights included) and having it arrive with scratches. It happens.
> 
> ...



I'm one who received a completely dead light from an on line vendor.
I ordered the T20C as a duty tactical light based on the various reviews and opinions of SWM in general. Upon arrival it was DOA. Now I have to pay shipping back to the vendor at a cost that wipes out any CPF discount. 

I was planning on doing a multi brand Police perspective review that included the T20C. Now I just want a refund. I will say the finish on the light was really nice. But a pretty paperweight is still just a paperweight.


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## egrep (Dec 28, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*





Left to right;

Ku 18650*, Ku 18500*, Black Ti2 #'s 50 and 79, Gold Ti2 #9, AE #'s 28* & 29*, stock 16340 w/ 14500 extender*, stock 16350 (going to bore to take 18340) (* w/ Ti Trit Switch) I'm considering moving the switches around...

My lights are unblemished. Given postings here I believe the majority are unblemished. At least one is horribly blemished (OP) and there are others that are bad, but out of 188 lights total (99B+89G) we've only seen <5% reported IIRC.

_Inappropriate trade comments removed. Use private means or WTT at the MP _


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## kaichu dento (Dec 28, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



matrixshaman said:


> I still say if a manufacturer is going to make big claims regarding finish of a special edition they had better have their act together. And since we are only talking less than 200 units I'm sure just one person could have inspected all of them in less than half a day. I think they knew about it but rather than pull the scratched ones they saw the dollar signs those represented and wanted to push them all out the door. In this case greed = damaged reputation. That's MY speculation and MY opinion and in my experience it's usually the reason behind most customer dissatisfaction with regards to manufacturers.


This is the exact point that many are missing here - it was not a stock run, but rather a special edition with lots of pristine models shown in pictures previous to the offering even being mentioned.

If it was a stock Ti version with the scratches I've seen, I doubt we'd see very much angst over the whole thing, but special finishes with with the damage shown in the pics here is completely unacceptable for a numbered collectors edition and the best option for SWM would be to find a shop and have the lights refinished.

A financial loss in the short term, an invaluable customer relations action which could take a lemon and make lemonade out of it.


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## egrep (Dec 28, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Absolutely, Irrevocably True. While I accept Mr. Zhou's apology I couldn't agree with you more. It is a big disappointment that will take some time to get over. Especially for SWM's biggest fans. This is no run-of-the-mill light. This was supposed to be the collectors edition of the year. SWM's first year. I don't think there are so many defective lights that it would crush them financially. There's still time for Mr. Zhou and his associates to blow us all away with sweet lemonade. 



kaichu dento said:


> A financial loss in the short term, an invaluable customer relations action which could take a lemon and make lemonade out of it.


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## Kilted (Dec 28, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Out of the box condition of my V10R Ti2 Black some more observations and questions.

* Grinding crunching sound from the button. None when the button is pressed straight down. I get the sound when my finger is off to one side. It sounds like the button is rubbing on the inside when depressed at an angle.
* Did any one else look closely to see how the shiny groves were made it looks like these were polished after the anodize process as small burrs were left and can be felt by running your finger along the barrel. The scratches the "Goldies" have may be part of the post anodize machining process.
* Light color this one is even colder compared to my V10A, my V10A has warm tint compared to the Ti2.
* Hot spot on Ti2 is tighter and more defined than V10A. V10A is a smooth flood the Ti2 is more of a spot. The spot came at a cost there is now a dark shadow around the corona. Comes under the category of being careful what you ask for. There were many complaints about the floody beam of the XML compared to the XPG. I see this as an attempt of SWM to give more throw. My comment to those who were whining about the XML vs. XPG did you even compare the size of the active area of the emitters?
* Clip still needs to go through a tumble polisher before the finish is applied to remove burrs.
* Running the V10A and Ti2 side-by-side both on LiCo 16340 & 14500 the Ti2 appears brighter, via ceiling bounce test. The cells were straight off the charger.
* The V10R-AE neutral is considerable dimmer compared to Ti2.
* I need to buy new 18650's for my V60C so I think I will try IMR 16340's for my two V10R's. 
* This is my first Titanium flashlight and first impression is other than the "bling" factor I'm not sure the extra cost is worth it. 

=D~~ Kilted


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## kreisler (Dec 28, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



Kilted said:


> * This is my first Titanium flashlight and first impression is other than the "bling" factor I'm not sure the extra cost is worth it.


limited collector's editions are meant as investments. keep it as shelf queen for several months until all of your folks have seen and admired it and the bling and novelty factor has worn off. no matter if your sample is in pristine or flemished condition .. when you try to sell it on cpfmp in 2012 there will be enough ignorant potential buyers (no offense) who come across the brand "Sunawayman" and the Ti² product for the first time with an appetite to buy yours from you. your gain is: you dont lose money but make some financial profit.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 28, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



egrep said:


> Left to right;
> 
> Ku 18650*, Ku 18500*, Black Ti2 #'s 50 and 79, Gold Ti2 #9, AE #'s 28* & 29*, stock 16340 w/ 14500 extender*, stock 16350 (going to bore to take 18340) (* w/ Ti Trit Switch) I'm considering moving the switches around...
> 
> ...



Okay egrep since you posted that pic I've got to ask .... Who is that standing next to the Dalai Lama and which flashlight is he handing him? Please say it's not a scratched up Sunwayman !


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## Kilted (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



kreisler said:


> limited collector's editions are meant as investments. keep it as shelf queen for several months until all of your folks have seen and admired it and the bling and novelty factor has worn off. no matter if your sample is in pristine or flemished condition .. when you try to sell it on cpfmp in 2012 there will be enough ignorant potential buyers (no offense) who come across the brand "Sunawayman" and the Ti² product for the first time with an appetite to buy yours from you. your gain is: you dont lose money but make some financial profit.



Thanks, since this is my first Titanium flashlight it's a keeper. It also finish's out my suite of pocket lights from work lights to dress-up to go out lights.

=D~~ Kilted


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## Chrisdm (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Yes, the Ti2 button grinds & sticks unless it is depressed straight down. Bummer. At first I was hoping this would cure itself after use, but instead I put a kuku electronic switch in it..  And yes, there was obvious machining done after the finish was applied: Particularly the grooves in the handle, but also the numbering/lettering. This is a likely point where the blemishing to the finish occurred. But of course I'm sure Sunwayman already realized this, if in fact they are looking into the problem (I hope they are!)

Regarding titanium in general, it is easier to appreciate if you look at an unfinished sample side/by/side with aluminum: Not only is it much more visually appealing, but it feels smoother and it wears much better (finish marks etc can be rubbed out). Regarding the black Ti2 specifically, this type of coating (AlTin) is unique to titanium and from what I've read is even more durable than the typical hard anodizing performed on aluminum, plus is MUCH nicer looking IMO.




Kilted said:


> Out of the box condition of my V10R Ti2 Black some more observations and questions.
> 
> * Grinding crunching sound from the button. None when the button is pressed straight down. I get the sound when my finger is off to one side. It sounds like the button is rubbing on the inside when depressed at an angle.
> * Did any one else look closely to see how the shiny groves were made it looks like these were polished after the anodize process as small burrs were left and can be felt by running your finger along the barrel. The scratches the "Goldies" have may be part of the post anodize machining process.
> ...


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## Kilovolt (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Black Ti2 #74/99 received today from Flashaholics.co.uk - the outer finish has no blemishes or scratches, the only complaint is the grittiness of the button which however does not get stuck.

BTW the output of this light is awesome.


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## threethrty (Dec 29, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



> Who is that standing next to the Dalai Lama ...?



Whoa! If my eyes aren't deceiving me, that looks like Mr. Rogers!

Anyway, after all this, I'll be keeping my lights. On the bright side (pun intended), I do have 2 new lights to incorporate into my EDC setups as they do actually work. Not sure if I'll use just 1 or both. 

Yes, I'm still very disappointed in SWM. I'm not sure I'll look their way for a while, especially for any kind of limited edition lights. My SWM itch has been scratched... out. If the product wasn't going to be as nice as advertised, there was no reason to take advantage of fans like me & create the expectations that it did. SWM could've just said the finishes of the lights would vary based on the manufacturing/anodizing process... or something like that. At least consumers would be walking into the transaction with more "open eyes" & have a better idea of what they might expect. Of course, I think the better business decision would've been to deliver what it promised or not deliver until it could, but hey, I'm not SWM. In this case, I'm not a fan of the current "all or nothing" decision. Send my lights back for refinishing? Ok... here, hold my $400.00 for a while until you're done. Really? Maybe a complete refund "makes me whole" if I return the lights, but the opportunity to generate goodwill is wasted. Thinking about it, I guess I did get a bonus with these L.E. SWM lights: another a reminder of caveat emptor.

For someone like me who gives his word & will take someone at his/her word, the bottom line is that SWM didn't deliver what it said it would deliver.


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## Lou Maan (Dec 30, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



kkeyser said:


> I have to think this is a troll. Saying sunwayman's qc is worse than jetbeams because there were some scratches on a super premium offering, vs. jetbeams that actually fail to work? Seriously? You are a troll if that is what you are saying.
> 
> Again, I understand the disappointment if you received one of these lights and it was scratched, but how many actual people had scratches?
> 
> ...



Whoa! Take it easy there kkeyser! Are you an agent for Sunwayman? What is your deal, man? You wanted this thread closed on page 3 and you're still here over the holidays calling people trolls? Where is your family and your goodwill towards others dude?


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## Lou Maan (Dec 31, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*



davyro said:


> I've been looking at a V10R Ti as the light looks a real good buy,i own a few more expensive lights & it must be said the lights i already own have travelled from the U.S to the U.K & when they've arrived
> everyone of them was in a perfect condition.It doesn't matter to me how sorry SWN are, there quality control is now provern to be very poor.So there in no way i would be buying a high end light from a
> company that doesn't inspect it's product thoroughly.I feel really sorry for the people who have bought one of the gold Ti2 thinking they had a great collectable, only to end up with a refund & no light at
> all.At the end of the day we think we get what we pay for & usually this is reflected perfectly with flashlights.The quality of a $200 edc light should be something to be really proud of.One of my favourite lights
> ...


Yep! This light drew a lot of attention and marred SWM's reputation of QC. VERY damaging indeed. I'm sorry but I don't care how much money one has, $200 should have been gold/platinum plated. I'm saying you could sponsor some kids with that kind of money. So everyone here has a right to their opinion and for me, that light is being thrown in my pocket every day. Mine isn't perfect but heck I'm gonna use it now because in a short amount of time, there will be smaller, more powerful and prettier cooler lights with tritium, etc on the market for half the money. I don't think you can blame the dealers though some are dishonest and some are sweating about the refunds right now and yes, some do scratch test them and keep the best ones. But that is a minority I hope. I like Sunwayman and I'll continue to buy their lights for now but the QC needs to improve soon because lighting up isn't the sole purpose of a LE light or any Sunwayman light for that matter. People buy Sunwayman for QUALITY.


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## notsofast (Dec 31, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Just because someone in the chain of command at SWM decided to ship a portion of the collector edition of the Ti V10R doesn't say to me they have a quality control problem. Does anyone really think some factory QC person had the final say on the condition of the lights that went out? 

The reality is out side of the the V10R Ti2 very few posts reporting problems with SWM lights have been made. Judging SWM's ability to produce flashlights based on this collector edition is what happens when humans get too emotional.


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## Kilovolt (Dec 31, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Out of a total of about 200 Ti2 lights it appears that only a limited number of the gold ones has surface finish problems and an even smaller number of the black ones. Probably a good percentage of the total is in the hands of CPFers.

It think it is now time to try and quantify this problem but personally I am at a loss as to how (poll?). Would someone who is better than me at these things please come forward and propose a way.


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## Lou Maan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

It IS a QC issue. The head of the chain of command is responsible for everyone underneath. There are very few posts complaining? Well there were enough for SWM to publicly apologize so I think it's significant. Then there's those like myself who can live with the imperfections who don't want to send it back. It's a nice enough light and I intend to use it. Not everyone complains but it is sad to open something and go: "huh! what's this? oh well...".

There's no point in quantifying the problem. Surface finish is what Sunwayman excels at as well as aesthetics. This is the first time there has been a real issue. But with functionality, there have been issues in the past and most people only buy one light of a type and yes, it works. However, when you start to purchase more than one of the same, you realize there are many strange anomalies even between the supposed same light. There are huge differences in output, focus of the beam as well as reflectors, tints, beam patterns and throw. They all WORK. But there are huge differences. Is it just a casualty of modern day manufacturing? Probably to a great degree yes. Do companies have a final say in what goes out to the public? Of course the do.


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## BLUE LED (Jan 6, 2012)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

I have 67 / 89 in gold. The finish is ok, but I do like the output and cool white U2. The switch is not very good and gets stuck. I may buy a replacement.


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## stoli67 (Jan 6, 2012)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*







Black and gold both perfect!


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## skatenut (Jan 7, 2012)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Guess I was very lucky, as far as these flashlight were concerned. Ordered a black one from the US, after I had nearly given up waiting for the 'Add to Cart' button to appear. Unfortunately, the lights were limited to one per buyer, otherwise I would have bought a black and a gold light.

Found these lights again nearly two weeks later at an Italian website, purely by luck, and ordered a gold light after a surprised double take. Mistake, should have ordered one black and two gold lights, while they lasted. They were gone just a few minutes later. 

They are both fine, the gold variable brightness ring has a slightly different hue from the rest of the body. I'm not complaining, I'm celebrating! 
Two safe-queens!


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## egrep (Jan 7, 2012)

*Re: Sunwayman L.E. V10R Ti2 Gold (or black)...what was your "out of the box" conditio*

Did you know Fred Rogers was a Presbyterian Minister and a Vegetarian? Did you know that His Holiness, the Dalai Lama is a master watch craftsman and an avid collector? He not only has some of the rarest and finest watches, he's among the extremely few who can completely overhaul and repair those watches.

My background image is 'randomly' rotated every 5 minutes from various images in a folder. That one just happened to pop up when I took the picture. There are no coincidences however, only Karma. :devil:



matrixshaman said:


> Okay egrep since you posted that pic I've got to ask .... Who is that standing next to the Dalai Lama





threethrty said:


> Whoa! If my eyes aren't deceiving me, that looks like Mr. Rogers!


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