# AW 3C Lithium and 1185



## creampuff (May 31, 2007)

So far I have been running the two of the AW C Lithium cells with a Mag 2C host and FM tail cap + ROP Hi, and have been very impressed. Just wondering if I get a Mag 3C host + FM gold/ceramic socket + FM tailcap will I need a longer cool down period for the lithium cells (compared to the NiMH setup) before I instaflash the 1185 and have a $6 moment??


----------



## LuxLuthor (May 31, 2007)

Basically I have the same voltage in a smaller mAh Li-Ion 3s cell setup here with the image. In a nutshell you need to get the voltage down a bit.


----------



## ampdude (Jun 1, 2007)

Several people said the 1185 and 3 li-ion C's are fine, but the failure you posted Lux is pretty much what I figured since the C cell is a little stouter than the smaller ones usually used with this lamp.

I would like to know what lamps have good reliability with three of AW's li-ion C cells in a Mag 3C host because this can be an awesome flamethrower in a cheap, reasonably sized host.


----------



## mdocod (Jun 1, 2007)

problem is that resting li-ion cells does very little to reduce the inicial oomf available. Best way to do it would be to terminate charges early. Like at maybe 4.00-4.10 volts per cell, instead of taking it up to 4.200.. Doing this will not only help save the bulb, but will increase cell cycle life substancially, at the loss of some runtime. Well worth the trade-off IMO.


----------



## LuxLuthor (Jun 1, 2007)

mdocod said:


> problem is that resting li-ion cells does very little to reduce the inicial oomf available. Best way to do it would be to terminate charges early. Like at maybe 4.00-4.10 volts per cell, instead of taking it up to 4.200.. Doing this will not only help save the bulb, but will increase cell cycle life substancially, at the loss of some runtime. Well worth the trade-off IMO.



Agreed. But luckily I have a few AWR Hot Drivers to pop in lights like this.


----------



## creampuff (Jun 1, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> Agreed. But luckily I have a few AWR Hot Drivers to pop in lights like this.


Looks like I might just stick with my 2C ROP Hi setup for now, visibly I can barely discern the difference between the ROP HI and WA1111 with a FM ceramic holder.

Due to AWR current predicament :sick2:, is he the only show in town when it comes to regulators/drivers for the Mag85 setup? Or is there another source out there, that will take less than 5 years to receive a product once ordered?


----------



## max52 (Jun 1, 2007)

I use a Triton to charge my AW C cells, to 4.1X volts. Hot off the charger I have had no problem with the 1185. As SilverFox notes, you will also extend the life of your cells charging to 4.1x, rather than 4.2X.

I use the Fivemega tail cap, Golden bi-pin adapter, and Dual funtion reflector to make a nice little light.

AWR and I have exchanged E-mails. He still sells the Hotdriver. In my case I am going to send him one of mine for repair.


----------



## waynejitsu (Jun 1, 2007)

Where do you get the Triton charger?


----------



## molite (Jun 1, 2007)

Not to hijack the thread but,
AW says the 3x18500 and 3x18650 will power the 1185.
Do those instiflash the 1185 as bad as the CLi and what are the estimated Run times of the 18500 and 18650.


----------



## max52 (Jun 1, 2007)

Concerning the Triton, I bought mine new on E-bay. The Triton 2 is now available with the capacity to charge higher capcities. I have found the Triton touchy when charging NiCad, and NiMh packs. Mine has a tendency to terminate the charge pre-maturely. The end of charge sensitivity is adjustable. I am going to try another setting to reduce early termination problems.

Charging Lion cells seems to be the Triton's strong point. I do think, however, my next charger will be the new Hyperion with the ability to charge the new A123s.


----------



## big beam (Jun 1, 2007)

I run an 1166 on 3C cells.Fully charged(4.2V) it's a little overdriven,and at the end a little underdriven.The nice thing about this set up is that you can tell when the batterys are getting down to it, the lamp starts to turn yellowish.
DON


----------



## zehnmm (Jun 1, 2007)

big beam said:


> I run an 1166 on 3C cells.Fully charged(4.2V) it's a little overdriven,and at the end a little underdriven.The nice thing about this set up is that you can tell when the batterys are getting down to it, the lamp starts to turn yellowish.
> DON


 
What runtimes are you getting with this setup?

Thanks!


----------



## big beam (Jun 1, 2007)

zehnmm said:


> What runtimes are you getting with this setup?
> 
> Thanks!



1.5 hrs but I don't run the batteries down below 3.6V rested.I have a mag 85,11,66 and ROP and I use the 1166 the most.It's lightweight,smaller than the 85 and 11 with much longer runtime.The ROP is a little smaller but with .5 hrs of runtime not as useful.If I could only have 1 hotwire it would be the 1166 with AW's C cells.The 1166,1185.and the 1111 are all very white.The ROP is a little yellow even at 7.2V. I'm sure the 1111 with 2 C cells would be a nice (small) light but would only have about 1 hr. of runtime,still I'm thinking of building one.
DON


----------



## ampdude (Jun 1, 2007)

mdocod said:


> problem is that resting li-ion cells does very little to reduce the inicial oomf available. Best way to do it would be to terminate charges early. Like at maybe 4.00-4.10 volts per cell, instead of taking it up to 4.200.. Doing this will not only help save the bulb, but will increase cell cycle life substancially, at the loss of some runtime. Well worth the trade-off IMO.




I have also heard you say not to run them below 3.8V for best lifespan. So you think 3.8-4.1V is the optimum range for lithium-ion batteries?

Personally to me, this is just not worth it. I would rather have the runtime. When my lithium ions won't hold above 4V anymore, I'll just buy new ones.


----------



## Bushman5 (Oct 18, 2007)

can someone with the 3 C in a 2C setup post a pic of it? i bought the FM stainless steel tailcap (for 2C) but i cant fit in 3 C batts......(Energizers).... :thinking:


----------



## LuxLuthor (Oct 19, 2007)

Bushman5 said:


> can someone with the 3 C in a 2C setup post a pic of it? i bought the FM stainless steel tailcap (for 2C) but i cant fit in 3 C batts......(Energizers).... :thinking:



I think there was a misunderstanding or someone said something wrong. FM's tailcap gives a little extra room in a C Mag, because AW C Li-Ion cells are about 3mm longer than typical C cells (like Duracell Alkaline). So a 2-C Mag fits 2 AW C Li-Ions with FM's tailcap. 3 Li-Ions need a 3-C Mag

Also, to clarify some of the earlier posts about powering a WA-1185 with 3 x Li-Ion cells....that will work if you have enough resistance in the stock parts of a Mag (springs, bipin holder, switch), and more robust Li-Ions like the AW C cell, or 17670....but if you do all the various 'resistance fixes' that are described elsewhere, the 12.6V (3 x 4.2V--especially the initial startup spike) can flash-kill your bulb, or dramatically shorten its lifespan. 

The 1185 does great with 10.85Vbulb. The 1166 does great with 12.55V which you cannot really get from a 3 x Li-Ion setup.


----------



## Bushman5 (Oct 19, 2007)

i thoguht the tailcap would allow me to use three "C" cells in a 2C mag...  

no biggy.... :naughty: i'm sure i will find a use for it eventually...


----------



## merlocka (Oct 19, 2007)

I've gone through about a dozen charge cycles on my FM85. I charge the AW C's up to 4.20 with an Ultrafire 139 charger (I monitor it, mine goes green right at 4.2). 

So far, still on the original WA1185 bulb. But I'm crossing my fingers because fresh off the charger the beam is very white


----------



## LuxLuthor (Oct 19, 2007)

merlocka said:


> ...So far, still on the original WA1185 bulb. But I'm crossing my fingers because fresh off the charger the beam is very white



That is entirely possible, because you have enough resistance in your flashlight parts that some of the 12.6+ volts (& current to the bulb) is being blunted....in essence protecting your 1185.

My first FiveMega light was a 3D Mag85 that uses 3 stacks of 3 x 17500 Li-Ion cells, with everything stock. Those bulbs have lasted a very long time. If I did any resistance fixes, they would not last as long.


----------



## nitnapz (Oct 20, 2007)

so i guess i'll supply the flashporn for this thread.







the these are my 2nd and third builds in the making. i guess this is a sneak peak.

a) black mag 2c. leaden finned head from aspheric. AW soft start and multi-brightness to be used with WA1111 or 5761. black KIU with blue glowpowder. note the kiu holes are much bigger. i just ran a bigger bit through with my drill. KIU bezels open beer bottles well. but leaves a nasty little ding.
*waiting to install FM tailcap here*

b) black mag3c with personal touch with KIU bezel. bigger holes and green glow. KIU high temp socket for use with WA1185 and *FM tailcap coming soon*


anywho, these are all to be used with AW's c lions. i would like my family to just grab one of these when they need. is it advisable to keep LIon batteries charged and laid to rest.. and if so, how long should they rest on the shelf. i will unscrew for the AW driver, as it will drain a tiny amount.


----------



## Bushman5 (Oct 20, 2007)

QOUTE NITNAPZ: " *waiting to install FM tailcap here*" 


Hey NitNapz!!!!!!! i have a tailcap for you!!! :naughty::naughty::naughty: FiveMega Stainless steel for the "C" Maglites! 

lemme know if you want it. :twothumbs


----------



## iapyx (Oct 20, 2007)

Hi, just surfing on cpf and noticed this thread. I have a 3D with 3 of AW's li-ion cells, a Kiu socket and a 1185 bulb. A pvc hose to prevent side-to-side rattle and two aluminium extensions to reach the tailspring (and to protect my batteries from getting damaged by the tailspring). I've charged a few times and it works great. No instaflash here. I do rest the batteries a few hours after charging. And maybe the aluminium extension gives just enough resistance to prevent instaflash. I am not sure. NL (Northern Lights) told me about reducing tailcap resistance. I am thinking of changing the alu extensions into copper ones. I'll work on that as soon as I receive one of AW's Mag D incan drivers. Time will tell - as soon as I have reduced the resistance to a minimum - if the 1185 instaflashes or not. Pro of the AW incan driver is that you can set it at 30% or 60%. After a while you can set it at 100%. Will be following this thread ....


----------



## DM51 (Oct 20, 2007)

iapyx said:


> I have a 3D with 3 of AW's li-ion cells, a Kiu socket and a 1185 bulb. A pvc hose to prevent side-to-side rattle and two aluminium extensions to reach the tailspring (and to protect my batteries from getting damaged by the tailspring).


 Could you possibly post a pic or 2 of this hose and the Al extensions/dummies you are using? That's exactly what I need for the Navy Dive Light I am doing up, and I'd be interested to see how you've done it.




iapyx said:


> I've charged a few times and it works great. No instaflash here. I do rest the batteries a few hours after charging. And maybe the aluminium extension gives just enough resistance to prevent instaflash. I am not sure. NL (norther lights) told me about reducing tailcap resistance. I am thinking of changing the alu extensions into copper ones.


Al is a good electrical conductor, so large-diameter dummies should have almost zero resistance, and I doubt you will see any difference if you change to copper ones (except they will be heavier and more $$$!). 

Any resistance in the circuit will be in the tailspring, bulb pins/contacts etc. One easy improvement to make (if not already done) is to file/grind the end of the tailspring so the end is flat and it makes maximum contact with your Al dummy cell.


----------



## iapyx (Oct 21, 2007)

DM51 said:


> Could you possibly post a pic or 2 of this hose and the Al extensions/dummies you are using? That's exactly what I need for the Navy Dive Light I am doing up, and I'd be interested to see how you've done it.


 
Had a look at your Navy Dive Light. Looks really great. If you mod that one you will have a light that I don´t think many others have... I had a look at eBay.nl and others to see if they had any similar lights. Not really. All I found were expensive diving lights like a Suunto and others for lots of money. 

To answer your question: I will post some pics of the hose and the Al extensions/dummies soon. 

iapyx


----------



## merlocka (Oct 27, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> That is entirely possible, because you have enough resistance in your flashlight parts that some of the 12.6+ volts (& current to the bulb) is being blunted....in essence protecting your 1185.
> 
> My first FiveMega light was a 3D Mag85 that uses 3 stacks of 3 x 17500 Li-Ion cells, with everything stock. Those bulbs have lasted a very long time. If I did any resistance fixes, they would not last as long.



Note that mine isn't a Mag based light, it's the FM85 from here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/161540

So I think the resistances are pretty low, but I'll double check it. The only thing it doesn't have is a braided spring. Maybe I'll try that and see if it pops 

I'm not arguing that the bulb life will be lower... thats the reality of overdriving the 1185. I'm just reporting that I've been through over a dozen (about 14 now) charge cycles on 3 C's to 4.2V and am still on the original 1185.


----------



## DM51 (Oct 28, 2007)

merlocka said:


> I'm not arguing that the bulb life will be lower... thats the reality of overdriving the 1185. I'm just reporting that I've been through over a dozen (about 14 now) charge cycles on 3 C's to 4.2V and am still on the original 1185.


I imagine your FM85 would be pretty good for resistance, so it would be interesting to know what your actual vBulb is, bearing in mind LuxLuthor's recommendation of 10.85V for the 1185.

What run-times are you getting?


----------



## iapyx (Oct 28, 2007)

DM51 said:


> Could you possibly post a pic or 2 of this hose and the Al extensions/dummies you are using? That's exactly what I need for the Navy Dive Light I am doing up, and I'd be interested to see how you've done it.


 

DM51, here are a few pics I made with my cell phone. Not the best quality pics, but it´s to give an idea.

I think I said that two AL extensions were used, but to my own surprise it appeared to be only one. Been experimenting and apparently decided to use one extension after all. 

The pvc insert 25 mm diameter (inner), with an AL extension that I use at the end to make contact with the tailspring:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z184/iapyx_cpf/DSC00506.jpg?t=1193598096


The other side of the pvc insert (water hose) with an AW li-ion C-cell sticking a few mm´s out: 
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z184/iapyx_cpf/DSC00505.jpg?t=1193598438

The whole package:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z184/iapyx_cpf/DSC00503.jpg?t=1193598605

And:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z184/iapyx_cpf/DSC00502.jpg?t=1193598674

And:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z184/iapyx_cpf/DSC00499.jpg?t=1193598726


iapyx


----------



## DM51 (Oct 28, 2007)

Thanks iapyx, those pics are very helpful. I do like that Al spacer you have made.


----------



## ampdude (Feb 25, 2009)

Looks like the IMR C's are gonna be out soon. I wonder what bulbs people are gonna use with these. I'd really like a 3 IMR C with an 1185, but I'll bet three IMR C's at 4.2V will instaflash it.


----------



## LuxLuthor (Feb 25, 2009)

ampdude said:


> Looks like the IMR C's are gonna be out soon. I wonder what bulbs people are gonna use with these. I'd really like a 3 IMR C *with an 1185, but I'll bet three IMR C's at 4.2V will instaflash it*.



It is likely without some increase resistance or a softstarting driver.


----------



## ampdude (Feb 25, 2009)

I can't think of any bulb that will plug in and stand up to 3 IMR C's for a reasonable amount of time. I guess it will take some testing.

It certainly will be the kickass incan setup for awhile thought when somebody does figure it out.


----------



## fivemega (Feb 25, 2009)

ampdude said:


> I can't think of any bulb that will plug in and stand up to 3 IMR C's for a reasonable amount of time. I guess it will take some testing.
> 
> It certainly will be the kickass incan setup for awhile thought when somebody does figure it out.



*If each IMR "C" cell provides 3.87 volt under 2 amp load, WA1166 work fine with reasonable brightness, bulb life and run time. I am sure they will do even better.
Using soft start with 3 IMR 18650 and WA1185 is necessary.*


----------



## nfetterly (Mar 7, 2009)

I've got a Leef 3 x 18650 that I finally got to light up. AW soft start (3 level) on tail and FM sundrop with WA01185 in it. BRIGHT - put lighthound stainless crenulated head on it. Still on first charge of batteries. Ordered 4 more bulbs yesterday. I'll wait before those come in to try my IMRs.

Very nice setup. Prefer length of 2 x 18650, but....

Neale


----------

