# Looking for a decent first-time incan light



## zipplet (Feb 16, 2008)

Hi,

I've been here a while now and I've had the pleasure of absorbing a lot of the knowledge around here but mostly regarding LED flashlights. I have many LED flashlights too - from cheap showerheads to Q5 monsters. However I'd like to try out a decent incandescent light as I've never had the pleasure in doing so and I've read a lot about the throw and colour rendition vs LED lights.

Now I'd like to ask for a little advice on choosing a first incandescent light. I'm after something of atleast 60 lumens possibly higher - I don't want any sickly orange beams here! I'll accept something with less output on it's own merits (price, size...). Spare bulbs (or bulb assemblies) being easily available is another factor.

Power source should probably be 1-2x CR123A - I can't imagine any decent incandescents running on standard batteries. No mag hotwires please. I'm not too bothered about the switch - twisty, clicky, tactical tailcap? Anything is fine aslong as the light fits my other requirements. I don't need it to be able to take rechargeable cells because I don't want to go near li-ions right now.

Hardest: this is on a budget, I'm not made of money so I can't afford a $200 surefire (and I doubt I could get one to the UK easily). Assuming this isn't too expensive I'm looking at pulling the trigger on this the moment I'm paid at the end of the month, something nice to look forward to 

Last but not least, please remember I'm living in the UK so I need to be able to get this from a UK online dealer or another dealer from overseas that would be willing to ship this to me without charging me a $50 shipping fee.

Thank you very much for your time and answers in advance!


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## Fusion_m8 (Feb 16, 2008)

The best deal you can probably get anywhere is from CPF member brightspot.

Check out this sales thread and just see just how reasonable he sells his products with international shipping. 

He has tons of Surefire stuff to sell, not just what he advertises for sale. So just email or PM him.

His after sales service is also outstanding!

Hope this helps.


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## sawlight (Feb 16, 2008)

I say every person that claims to be a flashaholic needs a SF E2E.
Maybe watch the market place and find one for sale that they will ship?


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## Taboot (Feb 16, 2008)

sawlight said:


> I say every person that claims to be a flashaholic needs a SF E2E.
> Maybe watch the market place and find one for sale that they will ship?


 
+1 for E2E. Just got one. It's really nice and plenty bright. EDC-able too. There seems to be good prices around on the internet. $79 versus the standard $95ish.

For example:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...e_E2ESG_E2E_Executive_Elite_Incandescent.html

Good luck. I think you'll appreciate incans along with your LEDs. Both serve a purpose for me.


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## jugg2 (Feb 16, 2008)

+1 on the E2E as well. Another bonus is, there are some great rechargeable options out there for it if you ever decide to go that route.


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## kramer5150 (Feb 16, 2008)

What is your budget?... an actual $$$ amount would be ideal and help members guide you.

I'm in the same boat... champagne & caviar dreams but beer & burger budget.

My budget is $55 (US$)
I'm going the 6P route for starters. I can upgrade it too with plenty of available parts and drop ins. I dont know if this seller charges to export to the UK, but perhaps you can find a similar deal. Just under $55 shipped for the light and drop in...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260212229434
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6090

I think you should consider rechargeables and an ROP mod too, since you mentioned being on an incandecent budget. MAG hotwires can be relatively simple if you use AA-D converters.


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## lite brite (Feb 16, 2008)

You can't classify yourself a flashaholic without either a 6P or an E2e...actually you should have both! :twothumbs


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## WildChild (Feb 16, 2008)

lite brite said:


> You can't classify yourself a flashaholic without either a 6P or an E2e...actually you should have both! :twothumbs



Does an E2D stands for an E2E?  I just got one... actually, my 5th SF light!


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## zipplet (Feb 16, 2008)

Thank you for all of your replies, I'm looking into the 6P and E2E right now, both fit the bill. Just looking at possible ways to import these at the moment. I was mostly overwhelmed with all the incandescent lights I've heard people mention so I had no idea where to start! That and the flood of cheap chinese stuff on ebay had me confused.

Not sure which I'll get first that depends on price and availability, but who knows, in the CPF spirit I'll probably get both eventually 

With the 6P, 65 lumens for an hour sounds quite reasonable for an incan... and I think with the lithium batteries the discharge curve will be quite flat for most of it?

Edit: my budget is up to $70-80 but I'll stretch further if there is good reason to do so.


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## KeeperSD (Feb 16, 2008)

If you are looking for an Incan that will impress I believe that you are better going with a 9V light, after using Q5 LED's it is likely that a 6V incan will disappoint. 

Look into a SF 9P or a Wolf Eyes Raider, throw in a P91, LF EO9 or HO9 for some good output and then later add some rechargeables for guilt free lumens. These are incans that will impress and show you what a incan is really capable of


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## saeckereier (Feb 16, 2008)

Hey, I don't want to offend the SF guys, but if your're in for a decent first-time light; This is what I just bought myself:

*Torch:*
*Torch (2 CR123A Version) $ 17.50
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3371

Alternative torch (I haven't tried it) $ 20.50
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2672

*Cells:*
18650 LiFePo4 cells (pair) $ 6.90
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1879
-or-
*18650 LiIon cells (pair) $ 9.92
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3287

*Bulbs:*
*3.7V 10W $ 2.83 http://www.dealextreme.com/search.dx/search.3246
3V 10W $ 2.95 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3232
7.4V 15W $2.83 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3218

I'm very satisfied with my current configuration (marked with an asterisk) It's not as bright as some of my CREEs, but has nice throw and gives some nice light. Whether it's too orange for you, I don't know as I haven't yet posessed something stronger, but it's close to my ROP-LE I'd say.. You might want to look at Kaidomain, they offer a longer body you could perhaps use with two 18650 and a 7.4V bulb giving nice runtime and bright light. Plus shipping is cheap, although you kinda pay for it with delivery times being looong. Any further questions for the combination? Feel free to ask  
Btw the CREE drop-in that comes pre-installed in the torch is not bad either (Kai also offers the body complete with a Xenon Lamp and a bit cheaper) 
Last thing: There's been a post here some days ago about P60 assemblys at a price of about $ 0.60 at QCG I think.

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, the recommended torch uses only one 18650 cell, but I always buy them in pairs, as it never hurts to have a spare and I have quite a good impression of the current batches

EDIT: As is probably obvious, I didn't read your requirements very thoroughly.. If you want to stick to primarys (LiFePo4s are quite safe but you won't find a cheap charger that you wouldn't have to hack up to charge the 18650s so this bulb is then recommended: http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=906
(currently on backorder as it seems :shakehead)


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## Kraid (Feb 17, 2008)

KeeperSD said:


> If you are looking for an Incan that will impress I believe that you are better going with a 9V light, after using Q5 LED's it is likely that a 6V incan will disappoint.
> 
> Look into a SF 9P or a Wolf Eyes Raider, throw in a P91, LF EO9 or HO9 for some good output and then later add some rechargeables for guilt free lumens. These are incans that will impress and show you what a incan is really capable of



Was gonna recommend the same thing.


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## EV_007 (Feb 17, 2008)

Also recommend the SureFire 9P which has many options and is under 100 bucks. With the right power source and bulb, you get a lot of guilt free lumens.


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## mdocod (Feb 18, 2008)

yea, if you have a lot of Q5s around picking up a 2xCR123 powered incan is going to send you running back to your Q5s wondering why you wasted your money.... There are some of us however, that appreciate lower output incans for certain applications. I just really don't want your first experience with a quality incan to be negative....

Look at 9V options, a Wolf-Eyes 9AX or Surefire G3 would be good starting points. The 9AX has the advantage of being upgradable to larger format Li-Ion cells when you are ready.


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## Wattnot (Feb 18, 2008)

KeeperSD said:


> Look into a SF 9P or a Wolf Eyes Raider, throw in a P91, LF EO9 or HO9 for some good output and then later add some rechargeables for guilt free lumens. These are incans that will impress and show you what a incan is really capable of


 
Coupla questions on this config . . . What rechargables mimic the 3 primaries? Two 18500?

Will the EO9 work in the 9DX? That's the one with the extended throw larger head.


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## adamlau (Feb 18, 2008)

2x17500, or 2x18500 (if the body is bored, or can already accomodate 18mm cells). The 9DX will only accomodate D36 (36mm) lamp assemblies (without further modification). The EO-9 is a D26 (26mm) assembly.


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## zipplet (Feb 18, 2008)

May I ask, where would I get a Wolf Eyes Raider in the UK? I want to check that out too before I make my final decision but I'm not going to consider lights that are difficult to get hold of, for a first time purchase 

Lots of nice suggestions here though, thanks.


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## LED61 (Feb 18, 2008)

adamlau said:


> 2x17500, or 2x18500 (if the body is bored, or can already accomodate 18mm cells). The 9DX will only accomodate D36 (36mm) lamp assemblies (without further modification). The EO-9 is a D26 (26mm) assembly.


 

+1 on the WE Raider setup. For $100 you can have the whole works, rechargeable to boot.

BTW, all WE Raiders accomodate 2 18500's on stock configuration, no boring needed. There you will have yourself an astonishing incan!! and it's fairly decent size.


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## KeeperSD (Feb 18, 2008)

zipplet said:


> May I ask, where would I get a Wolf Eyes Raider in the UK? I want to check that out too before I make my final decision but I'm not going to consider lights that are difficult to get hold of, for a first time purchase
> 
> Lots of nice suggestions here though, thanks.


 
There are at least 3 Wolf Eyes dealers on CPF, none in the UK, but there are a few members on here that have had experience ordering WE from dealers. I think j3nbl orders his WE's from GlenC from www.quarterflash.com.au , while i have heard of other guys ordering from http://www.pts-flashlights.com/ or http://www.liotec.com/ drop an email to them and see how you go, compared to the price of a SF in the UK it will still be quite price affective



Wattnot said:


> Coupla questions on this config . . . What rechargables mimic the 3 primaries? Two 18500?
> 
> Will the EO9 work in the 9DX? That's the one with the extended throw larger head.


 
You wont be able to use the EO9 as already stated, but you will be able to use the EO9L (450lumens) or HO9L (380lumens), which are D36 LA's and will operate very well with 2 x 18500's.


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## zipplet (Feb 18, 2008)

Thank you all again. I'm very tempted by the WE Raider setup, and pts-flashlights ship internationally too which pushes me even closer.

Well, whatever choice I end up making I'll end up buying a couple eventually anyway I guess... 

At the moment it's looking like a surefire 9P and WE Raider (with red tailcap ). I can't try out the WE in person first but I'm willing to take the plunge as a few have recommended it.


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## Wattnot (Feb 18, 2008)

Thanks for the info. A couple more questions, please?:shrug:

I believe the Raider has the light up tailcap option (or standard?). With that, how do you operate the light? Is the LED in the tailcap the button itself or is it a twisty or both?

And aside from the larger size, is there any downside to going with the larger head and D36 lamp assembly? In other words, if one doesn't mind the size difference, is there a decent payoff with the larger head/lamp or is it so close that it's better just to stick with the D26 and the stock Raider?

Thanks!


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## KeeperSD (Feb 18, 2008)

Wattnot said:


> Thanks for the info. A couple more questions, please?:shrug:
> 
> I believe the Raider has the light up tailcap option (or standard?). With that, how do you operate the light? Is the LED in the tailcap the button itself or is it a twisty or both?
> 
> ...


 
The LED tail cap is an option, the lights come standard with a forward clickie. The light is operated in a similar fashion to a surefire twist tail cap. It can be left in an off position and pushing the plastic LED section of the cap activates the main lamp. Alternatively you can twist the tail cap and the cap will go from activating the LED tail cap, keep twisting and the LED tail cap will turn off and acitvate the main LA. Hope that makes sense. 

As for the D36, i am not actually sure, i have a Explorer with a D36, but have not compared it to the D26 Sniper. If you search members "buz" and "Paul_from_maryland" i am sure i can remember one of these two doing a review with beam shots of a D26 and D36 lights. 

Just reading about the 9DX and something that might affect your decision, I don't think you are going to be able to use the Lumens Factory lamps in this light, if you want to have a turbo bezel and use the LF LA you will need to get a 9M Cobra, however i can't seem to be able to find these on any of the dealers sites, the other option is a M90 Rattlesnake, even though this is a 12V light it can easily be used with 2 x 18650's and a 9V LA.



zipplet said:


> At the moment it's looking like a surefire 9P and WE Raider (with red tailcap ). I can't try out the WE in person first but I'm willing to take the plunge as a few have recommended it.


 
Here is one of my reviews that you might be interested in
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/156004


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## mdocod (Feb 19, 2008)

The D36 series lamps from LF will not fit the 9 series turbobezels, you need the M90 or a Pila GL4.


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## yellow (Feb 19, 2008)

still wondering why anyone would want a dim 2 pc. CR123 light, when he already has a high powered Cree/Seoul one :thinking:

my best incan in this size is the *Streamlight Scorpion 18650 *from lighthound.
rechargeable 18650, way brighter than my SF6Ps, machining worse but better than those DX ones. Not this SF-nice but cheap.

PS: no chance to use it when my Cree P4 18650 is avaliable


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## Grampa (Feb 19, 2008)

Here's another recommendation for the Wolf Eyes Raider 9AX. As a CPF member, PTS-Flashlights.com offers a very good price. It runs 3 CR-123A cells, but is bored for holding a pair of 18500's. I have two, both running AW protected 18500's; one is running the standard 9.0V D26 Avanced Xenon (shock resistant) bulb assembly, and the other the new Wolf Eyes D26 3.7-13V Cree Q5 LED High Output assembly. There are a wide variety of D26 (P60 and P90) bulb assemblies available, including the very good Lumen Factory choices.

The out-of-the box flashlight is a good incandescent. It gets better from there. They have an adequate holster available, too.

One warning, though. Compared to my SF 6P, they are rougher as far as machining, and significantly larger and heavier. (I know, the SF 6P only runs a pair of CR-123A's, but that's what I have to compare to.)

Grampa


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## J!m (Feb 19, 2008)

I have a SF G2 and I love it. It is light, cheap ($35.00 at the local store) and quite bright! It runs on 2X123 cells, as requested.

Also, for a bit more (another $25.00) is the 120 lumen drop-in to *really* scorch stuff! I have this mod (actually, I got the light 'modded' new, for $25.00- SCORE!!!) and I really like it. Still on the first set of cells too, so run time is reasonable, in my opinion (I don't have numbers to give).

If you want more voltage (and length), the G3 adds another cell for 9V. I am not as familiar with this model, but I think it runs about $10.00 more across the board.

I'm sure these are available in Europe/UK; but I have no idea on the pricing there. This is a particularly good choice, because if you don't like the Incan light, there are LED drop-ins too. It comes in black, yellow, tan and OD green.

I will slowly be replacing all my AA mag lites with these...


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## MikeSalt (Feb 20, 2008)

zipplet said:


> No mag hotwires please.



Are you quite sure you want to stick by this restraint? Fair enough, being from the UK myself, waiting on the parts was agony, but the results are worth it. I have a Mag 2D Roar of the Pelican that is pure indulgent incandescent goodness. If you use Sanyo's Eneloops, it becomes a highly useful flashlight.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 20, 2008)

Great options without breaking the bank:

- SureFire G3
- SureFire 9P
- Wolf-Eyes Raider
- Wolf-Eyes M90 Rattlesnake
- PILA GL4

All with Lumens Factory LAs + AW Batteries


Cheaper alternatives:

- Ultrafire WF-500 + LF HO-R5
- Solarforce L600
- G&P Scorpion R500


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## Wattnot (Feb 20, 2008)

I saw a beamshot of that WF-500 somewhere around here. Impressive.

Well I bought a Raider 9T (blue LED tailcap) and a LF HO-9. I was going to do the EO-9 but the difference was minor in final output and I won't have the heat issues. 

Looking at the LF assembly . . . so when the lamp burns out you toss everything and buy another? It seems like a waste of parts. There's no way to replace JUST the lamp and save a few bucks and parts at the same time? Do those reflectors get worn out by the heat?

I bought the Raider so I'd have a light that fit between the Mag85 and the Deree CL1H. I guess there's probably room to fit a couple in there, huh? :naughty: My goal was a TWO cell 18650 light (just for some standardization) so the position is still open!! Yes, I know about the Rattlesnake with the extension and the EO-13 but that's a 3 cell and gets too close to the Mag85. We'll see how the Raider does. I try to justify more lights by making sure they fall into separate catagories (okay, that's my story for those in my life who think I'm nuts now!).


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## chuck4570 (Feb 22, 2008)

Surefire E2E, P6, P9, G2, G3, C2, C3, Z2, Just pick one.


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