# Rattlesnake M90 questions



## tofer50 (Apr 3, 2007)

Hi everyone!
I'm new at this flashaholism stuff so please bare with me.

I'm thinking of buying a base WE M-90
3 AE 18650 protected cells
1 extender
1 LF EO-13 13v 700 lumens LA

Will this setup work ok?

If it does, it seems it would be brighter and cheaper than a stock rechargable 13v M100.

Any info will be greatly appreciated.


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## FlashKat (Apr 3, 2007)

This set-up works great!!!!
The only thing I see is that if you buy the 18650 batteries from (Are you talking about AW or AE batteries?) AW then you will need to buy some magnets or something to fit in between the 18650 batteries since the 18650 batteries have a flat positive top and will NOT make contact with the negative of the other battery. I read that the Wolf eyes batteries will work with no problem. If you buy it from PTS they will be able to guide you all the way. [email protected] is great to deal with.
Your other choice is this set-up 
1-http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=1-20-40-88-6040&tb=4
with a LRB-168 extender, and an extra 168A battery.

2- If you want a shorter flashlight set-up then go with just a stock M90 Rattlesnake, 3 LRB-150A batteries and a LRB-150 extender.

Buy the Lumens Factory EO-13 for either set-up.



tofer50 said:


> Hi everyone!
> I'm new at this flashaholism stuff so please bare with me.
> 
> I'm thinking of buying a base WE M-90
> ...


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## tofer50 (Apr 3, 2007)

I meant AW. My mistake.
Where would you suggest I get the magnets?


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## FlashKat (Apr 3, 2007)

Lighthound sell the magnets and the AW 18650 batteries.
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1689
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1305

Keep in mind most people do not like the idea of using magnets just because if the magnet shifts and the ground and positive touch it shorts out the battery then the battery has a possibility of exploding. I DO NOT recommend the magnet.
That is why I am suggesting looking into the Wolf Eyes batteries. Send [email protected] a PM and he could tell you if the WE batteries will work without magnets. It may cost more, but it will be safer. I found this out after I bought my set-up.



tofer50 said:


> I meant AW. My mistake.
> Where would you suggest I get the magnets?


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## Effulgence (Apr 3, 2007)

After putting so much money into these WE legos, I think that you would do fine with either the 150A or 168A batteries. I recommend that you just get the package deal plus the LF EO-13 700lm lamp assembly from PTS and save the hassle. Paul and many others have stated that the WE stock 168A (18650) has more capacity than AW or competition. Just getting everything from PTS would save you money and hassle, since you wouldn't have to deal with another shipping charge, magnets, and PayPal. Either M90 complete kits from PTS includes the light, tailcap charger, 3 batteries, another lamp assembly, and extender. Just don't complicate the setup; it is less prone to failure.

Don't forget to pm [email protected] for the CPF discount.


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## FlashKat (Apr 3, 2007)

Oh Yeah!!! I forgot about the CPF discount . Thanks for reminding him about that. Simply stated I agree 100% with this post.


Effulgence said:


> After putting so much money into these WE legos, I think that you would do fine with either the 150A or 168A batteries. I recommend that you just get the package deal plus the LF EO-13 700lm lamp assembly from PTS and save the hassle. Paul and many others have stated that the WE stock 168A (18650) has more capacity than AW or competition. Just getting everything from PTS would save you money and hassle, since you wouldn't have to deal with another shipping charge, magnets, and PayPal. Either M90 complete kits from PTS includes the light, tailcap charger, 3 batteries, another lamp assembly, and extender. Just don't complicate the setup; it is less prone to failure.
> 
> Don't forget to pm [email protected] for the CPF discount.


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## Glen C (Apr 3, 2007)

Tofer, the WE batteries work without magnets, the AW require magnets. Either way you will have one powerful light, it works very well.


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## tofer50 (Apr 3, 2007)

Many thanks Flashkat.
Why do they make the batteries so that they need magnets?
What about using 3 R123's plus a dummy instead of 4 c123's on a flashlight designed for 4 123 primary's? will that work ok? is there such a thing as a 123 dummy?


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## tofer50 (Apr 3, 2007)

FlashKat said:


> Oh Yeah!!! I forgot about the CPF discount . Thanks for reminding him about that. Simply stated I agree 100% with this post.



Effulgence, what do you mean by "anorther lamp assembly"?


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## tofer50 (Apr 3, 2007)

Glenc, can something like this be done with the Eagle4? 
How does the Eagle 4 differ from the Rattlesnake?


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## Glen C (Apr 3, 2007)

Tofer, it would be dangerous to use 3 x R123 on the LF 13 lamp as it draws 2.2 amps and most R123 are rated at about 750mah (which gives you 1.5 amps safe max draw)


Edit The Eagle 4 doesn't have aftermarket lamps available to the best of my knowledge. The Eagle can be focussed, the Rattlesnake is prefocussed. I have the setup you are considering, it is very bright.


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## tofer50 (Apr 3, 2007)

What runtime do you get out of it?
Would 2.2 amps translate to about 1 hour with the 2200 mah?


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## Glen C (Apr 3, 2007)

LF state about 30 minutes with the EO13, I have never run mine to the end (I use 3 x 18500) but have used it for about 20 minutes with plenty of life left in it


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## tofer50 (Apr 3, 2007)

This sounds like a great setup. I'm ordering one.

Thanks all for your help. And thanks to [email protected] for the discount.


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## KeeperSD (Apr 3, 2007)

Even though i am hesitant to ask as it might ignite my interest in another light, Glen what other LA are available for this setup? Any that offer a little more run time?

As for the magnets, i use one in my Raider and have yet to have a problem and this light is used and bumped around quite a lot while i am at work. The magnet that i have been supplied moves minimally during the life of the batteries.


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## Glen C (Apr 3, 2007)

Keeper, you cant keep a good flashaholic down  There is the standard WE lamp of 300 lumens offering one hour or the LF HO13 with 400 lumens offering one hour. All of those are with the WE 150A (18500) which still keeps the size relatively modest.


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## DM51 (Apr 3, 2007)

I can confirm the M90 + short extender + LF EO-13 + 3 x 18500/WE 150A is an excellent set-up - very bright, huge throw, ~30 mins run-time. You would get ~50% more run-time (and perhaps a bit more brightness due to less voltage sag) from 3 x 168As, but you'd need the long extender which would add about 2 ins to the overall length (see answer to question below).



tofer50 said:


> Would 2.2 amps translate to about 1 hour with the 2200 mah?


No. With 168As it will probably be ~45 mins. I haven’t done a run-time test myself with 18650s/168As (someone else please?) but the rated capacity is a figure for when the battery is discharged at a modest current load. The heavier the load, the faster the charge is depleted AND the more “usable” capacity is lost. That is why a 1C discharge rate does not give you 60 mins run-time, and 2C certainly doesn’t give you 30 mins.

Whichever batteries you use, don't run them right down every time, even though they are protected. You'll get better life from them if you top them up from half-charge rather than waiting until the LV protection cut out.


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## tofer50 (Apr 3, 2007)

DM51 said:


> I can confirm the M90 + short extender + LF EO-13 + 3 x
> 18500/WE 150A is an excellent set-up - very bright, huge throw, ~30 mins run-time. You would get ~50% more run-time (and perhaps a bit more brightness due to less voltage sag) from 3 x 168As, but you'd need the long extender which would add about 2 ins to the overall length (see answer to question below).
> 
> No. With 168As it will probably be ~45 mins. I haven’t done a run-time test myself with 18650s/168As (someone else please?) but the rated capacity is a figure for when the battery is discharged at a modest current load. The heavier the load, the faster the charge is depleted AND the more “usable” capacity is lost. That is why a 1C discharge rate does not give you 60 mins run-time, and 2C certainly doesn’t give you 30 mins.
> ...



Ok. Now I'm confused. I only see one extender for the WE M-90. The M90-13V-168/Extender. What is a short extender?


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## DM51 (Apr 3, 2007)

tofer50 said:


> Ok. Now I'm confused. I only see one extender for the WE M-90. The M90-13V-168/Extender. What is a short extender?


It's half the length of an RCR123 cell (adds ~17mm to the length of the body). It is so you can use 3 x 18500 batteries. 4 x CR123A = ~133mm long (the M90 body's length). 3 x 18500 = 150mm long, so you need the extra 17mm extender to take the 3 x 18500s. Mike at pts, or GlenC, can help you with this (I'm not sure what its correct designation is).


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## Glen C (Apr 3, 2007)

By the 168 in the designation that is the longer extender (168 = 3 x LRB168A battery), as DM51 says the short allows 3 x 150. Mike definitely has them, send him an email and I am sure he will sort it out for you.


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## FlashKat (Apr 3, 2007)

Hi Tofer50, Type "extender" in the search box that is in the upper left hand corner of the PTS website and it will list it. Here is the link:
http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=6273&kw=extender&st=4


tofer50 said:


> Ok. Now I'm confused. I only see one extender for the WE M-90. The M90-13V-168/Extender. What is a short extender?


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## Effulgence (Apr 3, 2007)

Pardon me, but the complete package does not include another lamp assembly because this is the new stock lamp assembly (you don't get the bulb that was meant for the 4 123s). (I got the M90 first, then a conversion kit - hence I got 2 lamp assemblies.) 

Here is the 150A complete package. 

Here is the 168A complete package. 

If you type in "conversion" in the search box on the top left, it will yield the conversion kits. These don't include the flashlight itself. I HIGHLY recommend either of the two links above. 

18650s and other batteries that don't make contact seem to be a design flaw to me. These would work fine for single cell lights that have springs/buttons on both ends, but require magnets in 2 or more (to contact with each other). Just take the WE 150A or 168A cells, they are worth it. More capacity, peace of mind, and one-stop-shop.


Edit: Also, in case you didn't already know, the EO-13 700lm lamp assembly has a continuous runtime restriction of 5 minutes, rated by the manufacturer Lumens Factory. I would just heed the warning. There are plenty of lamp assemblies to fit your needs, just do a readup before you buy.


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## DM51 (Apr 3, 2007)

Well hush mah mouf too, but if you just e-mail Mike at pts, he is extremely helpful and if you are polite to him he will let you pick and mix what options you like - extenders, batteries, LAs, whatever. You don't have to take a set package.

Some 18650s are made without buttons to minimize length for some single-cell applications (the protection circuit adds ~2mm). It is not a design flaw.


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## tofer50 (Apr 3, 2007)

OK, this is all good. Now, I noticed that the WE Eagle 4 and the M90 share the same accesory led end cap. Does this mean that you can use the 168 extender on the Eagle 4 and practically establish the same setup I mentioned in the beginning? The reason I ask is because I alreay have an Eagle4 on the way. The Eagle 4 and 90 apparently share the same LA also.


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## DM51 (Apr 3, 2007)

I'm not sure about that. You'd have to ask someone who has an Eagle. I think it has a different bezel because it focuses, so the LF EO-13 may not fit.

_Edit: I think I've confused the Eagle with the Cobra. It's getting late! I hope someone else can answer this point for you._


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## Glen C (Apr 3, 2007)

Tofer, Eagles can have extenders added.

Here is a photo I just took of an Eagle lamp (right) and Rattlesnake lamp (left)






If you are getting confused let Mike sort it out for you, he will make sure you have a great package


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## tofer50 (Apr 3, 2007)

Thanks a lot Glen C. That really helps. So, how would you play around with the standard Eagle 4 with 4 cr123 in order to get more runtime or more brightness? or just the benefit of rechargability? I am ordering the M90 package s I mentioned so I guess I will have some interchangable parts between the two, such as the extender and the LED tail cap. Rechargable batteries (3 168's) with a 12V bulb OK?


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## Glen C (Apr 4, 2007)

I wouldn't play with the Eagle. Never tried 3 x 168 with a 12V globe as there is a 1.6V difference between the 12V & 13V globes, my guess is it will blow, but I don't want to spend $20 to find out. I wouldn't do it. 


Edit: When I say I wouldn't play with the Eagle, I mean I would leave it all WE. I would buy another extender and the E4 13V lamp, then just leave it stock running on 3 x 150A rechargeables. I am not much of a fan of primaries and their expense in Australia makes me less of a fan.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 5, 2007)

Ordinarily I recommend the Pila wall charger over the Wolf Eyes wall charger; you'll get more cycles out of your 150A cells. However, you'd need two such chargers to charge all 3 cells at once, and the Pila charger costs more than $40 shipped. I still say go for the Pila wall charger if you're willing to charge the 3 cells in two shifts (2 cells, then the third).

Don't sell the Wolf Eyes lamps short. The 13V lamp has a beautiful even flood that delivers the widest beam of any D36 lamp. The 12V lamp will work just fine with three 150A cells and, as I recall, was about dead-even with the Lumens Factory HO-13 D36 in other respects. A couple months ago, I posted beam shots of all Wolf Eyes and Lumens Factory 12V and 13V D36 lamps, tested with 168A cells. I don't have the thread handy.


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## FlashKat (Apr 7, 2007)

I just found out that running with 3 18650's is noticibly brighter than 3 18500's. I figure you cannot pocket carry either set-up so I m staying with the 3 18650 set-up.


Glen C said:


> LF state about 30 minutes with the EO13, I have never run mine to the end (I use 3 x 18500) but have used it for about 20 minutes with plenty of life left in it


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## Effulgence (Apr 7, 2007)

I don't pocket carry it either, but I like the shorter design. Since it is a tailcap clicky, and I don't mount it to a weapon, it's just clumsy to have it that long. If it had a clicky in a spot similar to a C/D-cell Mags, then I could care less about how long it was (to a certain extent). 

The 150A version just feels about right in my hands. The 168A protrudes out too much for my liking. Either is fine, it's all user preference.


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## Glen C (Apr 8, 2007)

Paul in Maryland, thanks for the good info on the 12V lamps, I wasn't brave enough to try that combo out


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 8, 2007)

Glen C said:


> Paul in Maryland, thanks for the good info on the 12V lamps, I wasn't brave enough to try that combo out


I should clarify: The 12V on three 150As is a winner. The 12V on three 168As burned out in its second or third 40-minute cycle.


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## PeteBroccolo (Apr 8, 2007)

I am running my M90X on 4 Powerizer white and blue (or orange) RCR123A 680 mAh 3.0 volt cells and it is IMPRESSIVELY bright! I have no idea what lamp assembly is in it.


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## tofer50 (Apr 9, 2007)

Glen C said:


> I would buy another extender and the E4 13V lamp, then just leave it stock running on 3 x 150A rechargeables. I am not much of a fan of primaries and their expense in Australia makes me less of a fan.



Glen C, Can you tell me if you can use the M90-13V LRB-168 extender in the D2AX Defender and use 2 168's with a 9 volt LA? the EO-9?
Or 1 168 with the 4 series HO-4?

Thanks for the help


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## Glen C (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi Tofer, 
A 168 will definitely work in a D2AX with HO4. An EO9 will definitely work with 2 x 168. I dont have a 168 extender in front of me to test on a D2AX.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 9, 2007)

*Re: D2AX+168A extender*



tofer50 said:


> Glen C, Can you tell me if you can use the M90-13V LRB-168 extender in the D2AX Defender and use 2 168's with a 9 volt LA? the EO-9?


Yes, you can. To provide electrical continuity, you'll need to bend some copper wire into a ring between body and extender; for illustrated directions, see the Wolf Eyes Lego thread. Unfortunately, the ring will block the upper 168 cell from slipping out the bottom when it's time for charging; you'll need to remove the head or remove the extender. If you remove the extender, you'll need to carefully reinsert the copper ring.


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## tofer50 (Apr 17, 2007)

I just got my Rattlesnake M-90. What a great light. I also got the extender and the 4 LED tail cap. Now, if I run this setup with the extender and 3 18650's and a LF EO-13, can I still use the 12 v tail cap without any risk?


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## Glen C (Apr 17, 2007)

You should have no problem with the LED tailcap, I use the same set up with 3 x 18500


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## Effulgence (Apr 17, 2007)

Excellent choice, the EO-13 is the way to go! 

Now all you have to do is keep using WE cells for all your lights! I think they have only 14500 (LRB-AA), 18650, and 18500 (as far as I know). These are great quality cells. 

(I think instead of the D36 Cree lamp assembly, they should have a Cree tailcap. )


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## mdocod (Apr 18, 2007)

Paul beat me to it, but I was going to mention his shootout from awhile ago comparing D36 lamps. And that the 12V WE seems to hold up well on 3xLi-Ion cells.

found it I think:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/151611
and another
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/138036


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## Vermonter73 (Apr 18, 2007)

If you're worried about magnets slipping, you could wrap electrical tape around the junction of the batteries. This would also make a nice pack for easy swapping.


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## KeeperSD (Apr 22, 2007)

Just wondering if anyone has had dealings with the gun cable tail switch? Could this be mounted on the body of the light itself? Is the switch pressure activated? I have heard Paul_in_Maryland speak of wrapping his WE's in some sort of tape to improve grip. Maybe this could be used to mount the switch on the body in a Maglite switch fashion? 


This may sound an odd question, but it is quite relevant as i would like to utilise this light at work however with a tail switch it would be very difficult to use with a firearm, considering the method in which we use to low light shoot


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## Glen C (Apr 22, 2007)

Hi Keeper, I don't have a new guntailcap in front of me at the moment but an older one and yes that would work. It is a pressure switch. I am familiar with the technique you use and how it demands a forward switch. Will be interesting to hear other opinions if others have used it this way.


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## KeeperSD (Apr 22, 2007)

KeeperSD said:


> Just wondering if anyone has had dealings with the gun cable tail switch? Could this be mounted on the body of the light itself? Is the switch pressure activated? I have heard Paul_in_Maryland speak of wrapping his WE's in some sort of tape to improve grip. Maybe this could be used to mount the switch on the body in a Maglite switch fashion?


 
Looks like i may have to be the Guinea Pig to try this, once the finances become available to buy a rattlesnake that is. 

Glen the gun tail cap that is on the website, is that the new or old one? The one in the picture that you emailed me looks better anyway as the cable is shorter, after looking at the website i was thinking that there was a lot of cable that would need shortening for this to work properly.

*Edit: After looking a little more thoroughly i discovered that tail caps with both the straight cord and coiled cord are available.v


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## Vermonter73 (Apr 23, 2007)

Seems like you'd be better off with a light that has the switch already in that position, rather than risking cords getting tangled, all those extra connections to fail, etc.


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## B'hamFAL (Apr 23, 2007)

Vermonter73 said:


> If you're worried about magnets slipping, you could wrap electrical tape around the junction of the batteries. This would also make a nice pack for easy swapping.


 
You still have to disassemble the 'pack' for charging if you don't use the tailcap charger. For those of us really worried about magnet slippage an O-ring around the magnet(s) will keep it from shorting against the body on the offhand chance it moves.

I dunno why but the long extension seems easier to hold than the short for me. I use a 2x17500 powered 9p for low light shooting anyway. The m90 is too bright for me and tends to make the tritium sights disappear. It works great for the 4 people to each side of you, that's 8 shooters total, during night qualifying as they don't even need a light.

I don't think the WE13v bulb is ideal for long burn times either, I've had one melt the glass envelope already.


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## KeeperSD (Apr 24, 2007)

Vermonter73 said:


> Seems like you'd be better off with a light that has the switch already in that position, rather than risking cords getting tangled, all those extra connections to fail, etc.


 
Already have a magcharger at work. Just thought since i am going to buy a Rattlesnake anyway that it would be interesting to see. It is always one of my concerns when using my raider is that to shoot with it would mean using an untrained technique. 

If i did do it the cord would be wrapped tightly to the body, so no chance of it getting caught and i don't think there is that many more connections compared to a clickie tail cap


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## PeteBroccolo (Apr 24, 2007)

I forgot to mention about my M90X - I tried making a belt loop carrier for mine out of an old OC spray canister holster that I cut the bottom plug out of. It worked, but exposed the body and tail-cap to damage.

Then I got an old 26" ASP baton scabbard - the leather-basketweave-look-alike nylon/plastic style with break-out side split. I removed the tensioner, added some book-binding repair tape, and my M90X sits in it tail-cap down nice and secure. The body of the scabbard is just long enough to accomodate the body of the light from tail-cap to the flare of the head.


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## ROGUE (Jun 14, 2007)

Glen,

Am i right in assuming that the M90 has an LED conversion kit?

Is it worth upgrading from the incandescent to the LED?


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## Glen C (Jun 14, 2007)

Hi Rogue, there is an LED drop in for the Snake but it is 170 lumens, I reccommend the Lumens Factory EO13 700 lumens lamp, I have it in my Rattlesnake and it is bright. We have them in stock


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## ROGUE (Jun 14, 2007)

Glen C said:


> Hi Rogue, there is an LED drop in for the Snake but it is 170 lumens, I reccommend the Lumens Factory EO13 700 lumens lamp, I have it in my Rattlesnake and it is bright. We have them in stock



Sweet.

Can you shoot me a pm/email with the price of the 700 lumens lamp please mate?

Is it a simple head swap, or what?


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## KeeperSD (Jun 14, 2007)

Looks like Rogue has been bitten by the bug 

That will be the second light in how many weeks? :twothumbs


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## Dung Beetle (Jun 14, 2007)

This is great, I am newbie, I was about to order a WE M90X, with the 13v conversion kit and the EO-13 lamp 700 Lu, and the 500 Lu, since I want the ability to switch back to CR123 when I'm out there with no electricity, no car charger. Is this a workable solution? :thinking:


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## Glen C (Jun 14, 2007)

Dung, you can get a 12V lamp, either the WE or LF one which will allow you to run 4 x CR123. You will also need to unscrew the spacer, as when the Rattlesnake is 13V it is effectively 4.5 CR123 long.


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## Dung Beetle (Jun 14, 2007)

OK thank for info. Glen, one more question, I read on the flashlight review that I can now charge the rechargeable batteries right in the flashlight with their new charger? I don't have to mess with the magnets. Will I able able to do this with their 13v charger, on an WE M90X.


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## Glen C (Jun 14, 2007)

Yes


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## Dung Beetle (Jun 14, 2007)

Thanks for the info M8, do you ever sleep? :bow:


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## KeeperSD (Jun 15, 2007)

Dung Beetle said:


> Thanks for the info M8, do you ever sleep? :bow:


 
Joys of being in Australia, he posted at 6:44am and 11:30am so i hope he wasn't sleeping, that said i have seen Glen post/email at some obscure times though, so maybe he doesn't sleep


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