# Novatac 120P modded with USW0H - 3000 lux more! - Now with Images



## whc (Sep 26, 2007)

Just got some USW0H from Fred today, and went for my 120P to see if would perform better with a new LED. The result is amazing about 3000 lux more overall outpot, yes three thousand more! That is amazing IMO. What is the stock LED a T-bin maybe?

It ian btw really easy to mod, only thermal compound .

Update Now with Images:

Just a few images of the 120P after the mod, this is as far I will take it apart, I have added some heat resistance tape below the "arms" of the LED, was not to confident about the heat sink to be proper isolated (thin layer of anodize), else not done anything else than changed the LED.






Perfect in center





Now to some beamshots:

Left: 120P RCR123A on Maximum, Right: Waion 4th. gen with USV0H and 1x18650 on Maximum







Left: 120P RCR123A on Maximum, Right: Waion 4th. gen with USV0H and 1x18650 on Maximum, 2-stops underexposed







Left: 120P RCR123A on Maximum, Right: Ultrafure WF-500 with USX0H and 2x18650




Left: 120P RCR123A on Maximum, Right: Ultrafure WF-500 with USX0H and 2x18650, 2-stops underexposed




Here is the opject without light




120P with RCR123A on Maximum




Waion VB-16 4th. gen 18650 on Maximum





Lux reading of Overall Output:

_Novatac 120P *OLD!*:_
1xRCR123A Li-ion on Max: *6270* Lux
_Novatac 120P *NEW!*:_
1xRCR123A Li-ion on Max: *9210* Lux

Lux reading of 1m Throw:

_Novatac 120P *OLD!*:_
1xRCR123A Li-ion on Max: *2190* Lux
_Novatac 120P *NEW!*:_
1xRCR123A Li-ion on Max: *2870* Lux

The runtime is about the same, actually got 2min longer runtime with the new LED, compared to the last runtime I did with the old LED.


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## jcompton (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Novatac 120P modded with USW0H - 3000 lux more!*


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## whc (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Novatac 120P modded with USW0H - 3000 lux more!*

No pics sorry, just strange that I am getting 3000 lux more with a new also U-bin LED, makes me wonder which bin Novatac uses in there flashlights.


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## jcompton (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Novatac 120P modded with USW0H - 3000 lux more!*



whc said:


> No pics sorry, just strange that I am getting 3000 lux more with a new also U-bin LED, makes me wonder which bin Novatac uses in there flashlights.


 
If this is true, I may want to do the same to my 120P.
When you get a chance, beamshots would be a great help.

:thumbsup:


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## whc (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Novatac 120P modded with USW0H - 3000 lux more!*

Just added images to the first post .


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## Supernam (Sep 26, 2007)

Wait... so what's the emitter in a stock Novatac? I always thought it was already a USWOH, the tint is very similar.


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## whc (Sep 26, 2007)

Supernam said:


> Wait... so what's the emitter in a stock Novatac? I always thought it was already a USWOH, the tint is very similar.


That is the big question .


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## THE_dAY (Sep 26, 2007)

great job whc! so i guess your the first to have 150p.


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## jcompton (Sep 26, 2007)

Very Nice...:twothumbs


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## ViReN (Sep 27, 2007)

Great Mod... but in just couple of weeks V Binned Seouls are expected... are we talking upwards of 200 Lumens from Novatac 120P


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## c0t0d0s0 (Sep 27, 2007)

Great info, thank you. And I was hoping to leave my light stock. Riiiiiight....


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## whc (Sep 27, 2007)

THE_dAY said:


> great job whc! so i guess your the first to have 150p.


Yes if the 120P should be produce 120 lumens, then it is more like an 180P now .


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## whc (Sep 27, 2007)

ViReN said:


> Great Mod... but in just couple of weeks V Binned Seouls are expected... are we talking upwards of 200 Lumens from Novatac 120P


Sounds really tempting, will though be satisfied for now with the U-bin, for now that is… .


But will have to try the V-bin if it comes in V0 and W0 tint...


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## adirondackdestroyer (Sep 27, 2007)

Nice results. Kind of suprising though. I would expect a U bin Seoul considering the light costs $150 and a U bin is less than $10. 

Now you mention that it could be 180 lumens, but don't you have other lights that have had higher total output than 9200 in your light meter? I thought I remember seeing a thread of yours where you compared a bunch of lights, and the Fenix L1D with a 14500 was over 9,000 and you have a couple lights over 10,000.


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## whc (Sep 27, 2007)

The brightest I have right now other than the 120P is the Waion VB-16 4th gen. from 2nd batch modded with USV0H (driver feeds 850mah to the LED), with the 2xRCR123A and I "only" gets *7640* Lux overall, gets about the same with my other WB-16 4th gen. with same LED from same batch.

It is seriously bright the 120P, every body I have showed it two, going from 15 lumens to 42 lumens, and then to maximum have been amazed about the output, even at 42 lumens it is really bright.

Tried two different LEDs of same bin/order since I could not believe it at first, and got same result, maybe I got lucky with the LEDs from PhotonFanatic, am not going to change it back that’s for sure .

Have now tested it with 5 batteries (RCR123A from AW), on maximum until it starts to dim, and still just as bright as it was to begin with (was afraid it would loose some output, gets really hot).


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## whc (Sep 27, 2007)

Hmm just thought of another thing, Quickbeam @ FleashlightReview on his website writes about how you can multiply the Overall Output by 1.39 for LED flashlight, to get Lumens numbers out of the Lux numbers (not completely accurate, but should be pretty close, see more here).

Lets multiply those Lux numbers:

Stock LED *6270* Lux *x* 1.39 = *87*18.3 Lumens
USW0H LED *9210* Lux *x* 1.39 = *128*01.9 Lumens

I guess it is the lest tree numbers XX.X is not to be included, only the first 2-3 numbers (correct me if I am wrong).

That means the stock 120P ONLY is *87* Lumens, that is very far from the promised *120* Lumens, can that really be the truth?

My friends 120P reads 7410 with the stock LED, so that should be *102* Lumens (it is from the newer batch, mine it from the first batch), still pretty far from the *120* Lumens.

I know these Lumens numbers is not 100% trust worthy, but it should be close, some one please tell me I am wrong .


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 27, 2007)

You need to calibrate your lightbox (it is a lightbox, right?) with a light that has a known lumen output. Then you can work out your own formula to get approximate lumens. Maybe you have done this? The HDS lights were calibrated in an IS. Do you have one of them?

Bill


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## whc (Sep 28, 2007)

Bullzeyebill said:


> You need to calibrate your lightbox (it is a lightbox, right?) with a light that has a known lumen output. Then you can work out your own formula to get approximate lumens. Maybe you have done this? The HDS lights were calibrated in an IS. Do you have one of them?
> 
> Bill


An IS, what is that?

Yes it is a homemade lightbox, don't have a light that I know 100% sure about how many lumens it is, so cannot "calibrate" it.


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## taschenlampe (Sep 28, 2007)

whc said:


> An IS, what is that? ...


 
integrating sphere

tl


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## luminata (Sep 28, 2007)

it's also possible your stock 120p was an underperformer maybe?? Still is good to see someone finally attempt and succeed at modding the emitter on a Novatac with success

WHC, could you elaborate on the procedure you used for doing this? any helpful hints to avoid failure would be great. I see you mentioned you did not take the light engine out of the head. Was it difficult to get a soldering iron in there without ruining the led in the process and get the soldering done ? Looks like you did an equal job of resoldering the new emitter in as compared to the original factory soldering.

thanx!!


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## Nake (Sep 28, 2007)

I'm thinking like luminata, maybe stock it was an underperformer. Mine shows 7500 lux. Also the lux numbers you show for the other tests you have done coincide with what I get in my lightbox for the same lights. So our lux meters are on the same plane. I have a USWOH from PhotonFanatics first batch, think I'll try it and see what happens.


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## Nake (Sep 28, 2007)

Success, just finished the swap, it shows 9000 lux. Now I have a true 125P.  Bring on the "V" bins. 
PhotonFanatic better start restocking, there's going to be a run on Seouls.


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## whc (Sep 29, 2007)

luminata said:


> it's also possible your stock 120p was an underperformer maybe?? Still is good to see someone finally attempt and succeed at modding the emitter on a Novatac with success
> 
> WHC, could you elaborate on the procedure you used for doing this? any helpful hints to avoid failure would be great. I see you mentioned you did not take the light engine out of the head. Was it difficult to get a soldering iron in there without ruining the led in the process and get the soldering done ? Looks like you did an equal job of resoldering the new emitter in as compared to the original factory soldering.
> 
> thanx!!


I did take the module out, just did not take any images of that, only after words I took the reflector out to show the modded LED module, did not wanted to take the module out yet anothet time.

What I did:
1. Take out the LED module (using a "spidstang" as we call it here, don't know what it is called in English, but it is some thing like this one here).
2. Removed the stock LED, remember to mark where + is (use some disordering wire and tweezer to take the LED out of the module).
3. Cleaned the complete LED module from thermal compound with ArctiClean.
4. Took out the bezel, lens, o-rong and reflector from the head, and cleaned the inside (used a ultra sonic cleaner, it can get to places you don't ).
5. Cut some High Tempature Tape, to fit below the legs of the LED on the module, since I was not confident in the isolation on the module.
6. Bended the legs on the LED just a tad upwards, and put some thermal compound on the module where the led would sit (not much is required).
7. Centred the LED (can move slightly) and soldiered the LED on.
8. Inside the head where the LED module would fit I put thermal compound, not much is required, but just a tad all the way around on the inside.
9. Put in the LED module, and tighten with the ring (you can use some glue if you want to be sure the ring don't come loose).
10. Put in the reflector and o-ring, blow on the reflector to remove dust, but only once the o-ring is proper installed.
11. Install the lens, maybe just clean it first, I uses a soft microfiber clod, and blow it free of dust, install the lens, then maybe centre the reflector by tapping on the lens.
12. Install the bezel and tighten it using some hard rubber (I use a Lego wheel, it is just a tad bigger in dia. and works very well).

That is about it, not a hard job to do, just take your time. Hope it helps .


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## whc (Sep 29, 2007)

Nake said:


> Success, just finished the swap, it shows 9000 lux. Now I have a true 125P.  Bring on the "V" bins.
> PhotonFanatic better start restocking, there's going to be a run on Seouls.


Very nice , must think they uses T-bins or some thing like that, or maybe PhotonFanatic just stocks better quality LEDs. It is just very strange IMO.

Just ordered a new 120P after selling the modded one, hope I will get it some time next week, will then test and mod again, and maybe confront Novatac with the result, am beginning of thinking they maybe uses not the best bin LEDs, or maybe they are using T-bins in there lights, and some time soon, they will upgrade to U-bins and sell it as 150P or some thing like that, they told me they where working on a new version, maybe that's is .

Hope Henry will be using better LEDs, and maybe take back the GT series, since Novatac do not Guarantee Tints .


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## whc (Sep 29, 2007)

taschenlampe said:


> integrating sphere
> 
> tl


Oh, that is whet it is. No am defiantly not using that, just a homemade milk carton as lightbox .


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## whc (Sep 29, 2007)

If any is up for this mod, I will offer doing all the work for you, see more here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2167574#post2167574


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## luminata (Sep 29, 2007)

thanx for the the detailed info on this mod WHC :thumbsup:


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## gunga (Oct 7, 2007)

Nice Mod WHC.

A couple questions for you.

Did you do anything else to isolate the base of the seoul? Did you use any arctic alumina on the base etc, or did you just rely on the anodized module?

Also, do you think the seoul from the Novatac can be reused after removing it? I plan to upgrade some lower priority stuff and would like to re-use the seoul emmitter from the Novatac.

Thanks!


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## c0t0d0s0 (Oct 7, 2007)

.


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## whc (Oct 7, 2007)

gunga said:


> Nice Mod WHC.
> 
> A couple questions for you.
> 
> ...


Did not isolate the smug on the LED, since the heating is completely isolated from the circuit, was only concerned about if both the legs would hit the heat sink, and then could shorten and kill the LED, since the HA on the heat sink is kind of “easy” to scratch off, and after 5 LED changes, thought it would be best to isolate the legs of the LED.

Since the LED is not glued on, just normal thermal compound is used, only cleaning is needed and then you can easy reuse the LED. I only used normal thermal compound when changing the LED to make better heat transfer from the smug to the heat sink, also makes it easier for future mods, but you could epoxy it on with some Artic Silver Adhesive, but then you would have a very hard time to change the LED in the future.


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## faiz23 (Oct 7, 2007)

do you think a different type of reflector would help in the beam to create a little more hotspot or if we sand it some to change the focus on it.


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## gunga (Oct 8, 2007)

Thanks for the info!

I think I will try to upgrade this one then since I'm expecting an emitter soon!

Too bad I have no light meter to test for changes!

Hope it doesn't get dimmer!








whc said:


> Did not isolate the smug on the LED, since the heating is completely isolated from the circuit, was only concerned about if both the legs would hit the heat sink, and then could shorten and kill the LED, since the HA on the heat sink is kind of “easy” to scratch off, and after 5 LED changes, thought it would be best to isolate the legs of the LED.
> 
> Since the LED is not glued on, just normal thermal compound is used, only cleaning is needed and then you can easy reuse the LED. I only used normal thermal compound when changing the LED to make better heat transfer from the smug to the heat sink, also makes it easier for future mods, but you could epoxy it on with some Artic Silver Adhesive, but then you would have a very hard time to change the LED in the future.


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 8, 2007)

gunga. want to have some fun with your flashlights and modded lights, buy a lightmeter instead of your next light. You will learn so much.

Bill


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## whc (Oct 8, 2007)

faiz23 said:


> do you think a different type of reflector would help in the beam to create a little more hotspot or if we sand it some to change the focus on it.


Maybe if you can find a good reflector that will fit (22.60x13.49mm), personally I think it is perfect as is, so would not risk damaging the reflector by grinding some off.


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## Nake (Oct 8, 2007)

Not too knowledgeable on the subject, but if the Seouls coming with the Novatac had a Vf of "I" instead of "H" would that cause them to be that much dimmer?


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## faiz23 (Oct 8, 2007)

i think the higher the letter u bin versus v bin the better the led and efficient and i think even less heat. I know the cree is at a Q bin and the R bin is coming soon. but i am not sure of the VF information i know it has to do with efficiency of the led but you have more posts so you should be teaching me lol.

thank you


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## Nake (Oct 8, 2007)

faiz23 said:


> ..... you have more posts so you should be teaching me lol.


 
Not an indication of knowledge, just means I talk a lot.


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## Supernam (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi Supernam,
We currently use U bins.

Enjoy your light,

Jim Schecter 
Director Support Services
NovaTac, Inc.
2302 E. Speedway Suite 211
Tucson, AZ85719
[email protected]
www.novatac.com 
520 881-5800



*From:* Supernam
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2007 10:36 PM
*To:* Jim Schecter
*Subject:* Novatac 120T Question



Hi there,

I would like to know what bin Seoul emitter is in the 120T model. 

Thanks!


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## c0t0d0s0 (Oct 9, 2007)

I just completed an emitter swap in my 120P. My lightmeter indicates a 24% increase in overall output. 

I used an USV0H emitter from noone other than PhotonFanatic... If Novatac is indeed using U-bins, then it's quite a bit of variation within one bin :sick2:


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## gunga (Oct 9, 2007)

That's actually good to hear.

I've no light meter, but I intend to do this swap.

It seems the few swaps I've read about (3-4 or so) all report a lumens increase of about 20-30%. So I guess it's worth it, even if Nova claims they use U bins.

Weird...


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## c0t0d0s0 (Oct 9, 2007)

> Hi Supernam,
> We currently use U bins.



I think the keyword is *currently*.


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## Supernam (Oct 10, 2007)

c0t0d0s0 said:


> I think the keyword is *currently*.



They haven't been out for very long. Are you implying that after one month since their release that they started using U bins? I doubt it. I DO agree that there are variations between runs of emitters just like any of the previous emitters out there. Photonfanatic seems to have landed a good and consistent batch.

I have done the mod myself on my 120T and swapped in Photonfanitic's USVOH. The difference was not noticeable to the naked eye. Perhaps there was a slight increase, but not apparent in real world usage. I DID however, notice the tint to be warmer. I'm guessing that the stock emitter was a USWOH and the USVOH was indeed a preferred tint for myself.


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## c0t0d0s0 (Oct 10, 2007)

Well...

The datasheets say that the U flux bin is supposed to be 91-118 lumens at 350mA... it's a pretty wide interval, that's a 30% difference right there... Additionally, i think there's a 10% margin of error on top of that. 

Theoretically, it could be a variation within one bin after all.

In any case, you can be sure it's not a matter of personal perception or tint. The lightmeter does indicate almost 25% difference in output. It's a fact.

PS. PhotonFanatic rocks. It's also a hard scientific fact.:rock:


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 1, 2007)

Well mine,had no increase in output,so is this just a lottery mod.


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## Nake (Nov 1, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> Well mine,had no increase in output,so is this just a lottery mod.


 
How did you determine there was no increase, eyeball or instrument?


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 1, 2007)

Nake said:


> How did you determine there was no increase, eyeball or instrument?


According to the modder (MilkySpit) I am sure he would use instuments.


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## gunga (Nov 1, 2007)

Thanks Titan! I decided not to mod mine (with some good advice) because it was a lottery mod.

I'll definitely wait for later bins before doing anything!


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## paulr (Nov 1, 2007)

I don't think hotspot lux measurement tells anything about overall output after a mod like this. The new led's beam looks narrower than the old one in those photos. A 1/10th of a millimeter difference of placement of the led in the reflector between the new and old leds could be causing the entire difference in hotspot reading even if the two led outputs are exactly the same. You need integrating sphere or at least lightbox tests to say that the new led has more output. The other thing you have to do is measure the power level. A Vf difference could mean that the new led is brighter because it's getting more power, with no efficiency improvement.


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## luminata (Nov 2, 2007)

I did this mod also . Got caught up in the frenzy . Used the USWOH . Took before pics and after pics with a basic digital camera nothing fancy. 

Results 1)Based on the camera on same settings in same room at night the modded light has LESS ouput and the beam is bluish in tint wheras before it was warmer and "whiter" . Why do I think it has less output? the before pics washed out the cameras ability to see the wall/ceiling behind the hotspot wheras the after mod pics this is not the case. You can see behind the hotspot.
I will let you figure out which is which. 
I have a strong urge to replace the original Emitter but so far have held off in the hopes the V bin will be avalable to the masses soon and truthfully I am no expert at this stuff with limited skills and these things are very stressful for me to do so the fewer times the better. I have been living with the new crappy setup since though it is dperessing each and every time I turn the light on. Add to that there seems to be absolutly no word or talk of a v-bin coming out anytime soon if at all .


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## whc (Nov 2, 2007)

-->luminata
The beam shot indicated that the LED is either defective or poorly heatsinked, have you put some thermal compound between the LED and heatsink? it requires you to clean the old compound away and put some new one, not too much and not too little.


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## luminata (Nov 2, 2007)

Hey WHC,

I did use thermal compund but I will admit I may have used too much. When I set the Led in the compound (non epoxy version) it oozed out the sides of the emitter and made quite a mess. got the worst of it off mostly.
Since I put the new emitter in , use was short term intermittent on high. it always had that blue tint right from the start. When I finally used the light on high for a full battery discharge (RCR123) I have to admit the heat output was a bit wierd. The light really didnt get hot on high untill towards the end of the battery life and it started to get hotter, not unbearably hot but defnitley warmer in the hand. then soon after it started the step down process. So I dont know if this has something to do with it. I always thought the angry blue tint came after the light/emitter had time to really heat up/overheat? since the emitter has to be pressed down slightly only so much compund can remain underneath the die it would seem. How much is too much ?


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## Kid9P (Nov 5, 2007)

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to say a quick THANK YOU to WHC.

I sent payment to WHC a few weeks ago. With said funds, he ordered a 120P from Lighthound for emmiter upgrading.

He kept me up to date via emails throughout the whole process.
I just received my 120P today all the way from Denmark

The work was flawless, extremely clean and the new output is
pretty amazing. My dream 120P is now complete thanks to WHC.

:twothumbs Cheers my Friend :twothumbs

Ray


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 5, 2007)

:thinking::thinking:


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## luminata (Nov 7, 2007)

I realize now that my posting my results may be seen as negative towards WHC and the modding he is offering for the Novatac. I apologize for this and this was not my intention. 
I actually put my original emitter back in and it's back to the original output for me. I dont know why I had such dismal results, I ended up not really having that much thermal compund under the emiiter when I pulled it off for the swap back so I dont know what the problem was . i did make sure to keep the amount used to a minimum on the reinstall of the stock emitter so i wouldnt have to clean up . Though i got my emitters from Photonfanatic and I figured if from the same "reel" they would give the same results (a great place to get Leds and such for sure!!) I think, like the Luxeons of old, it is a bit of a lottery .I have had 2 other Novatacs pass thru my hands and all of them had varying tints from Rose colored tint to bluish/cold with the 85T having the nicest (wish I hadnt sold it) . 

I just wanted to show my results and they very well could have been from my lack of skill/experience ,ineptitude and/or bad luck with the LED Lotto.


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## whc (Nov 7, 2007)

luminata said:


> I realize now that my posting my results may be seen as negative towards WHC and the modding he is offering for the Novatac. I apologize for this and this was not my intention.
> I actually put my original emitter back in and it's back to the original output for me. I dont know why I had such dismal results, I ended up not really having that much thermal compund under the emiiter when I pulled it off for the swap back so I dont know what the problem was . i did make sure to keep the amount used to a minimum on the reinstall of the stock emitter so i wouldnt have to clean up . Though i got my emitters from Photonfanatic and I figured if from the same "reel" they would give the same results (a great place to get Leds and such for sure!!) I think, like the Luxeons of old, it is a bit of a lottery .I have had 2 other Novatacs pass thru my hands and all of them had varying tints from Rose colored tint to bluish/cold with the 85T having the nicest (wish I hadnt sold it) .
> 
> I just wanted to show my results and they very well could have been from my lack of skill/experience ,ineptitude and/or bad luck with the LED Lotto.


No problem, always good to hear others results, good or bad .

Have also tried that a LED was dim and blue in tint, actually happened two times if I recall right, just tested the LED to ensure it was not poor heatsink, and in the cases I had it was a bad/defective LED that was the result.

Some LED's are just bad, very few though, but some times this happens (out of the about 30+ Seoul SSC LED's I have used so far, only two has been bad).


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## whc (Nov 7, 2007)

Kid9P said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I just wanted to say a quick THANK YOU to WHC.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you like it, hope you will enjoy your genuine WHC mod .


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## SLC (Nov 8, 2007)

whc: hq24.dk is down when it´ll be up again ?

modded novatac 120t be available now?

tak


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## whc (Nov 8, 2007)

SLC said:


> whc: hq24.dk is down when it´ll be up again ?
> 
> modded novatac 120t be available now?
> 
> tak


Closed it down for now, since I find it hard to get time to do these Novatac mods, they require allot of time and effort, and right now I have plenty of other projects to deal with. But if you are interested you can always send me a PM, an hear if I have time to do a Novatac for you ...


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## Charon (Mar 21, 2008)

Newbie question. The 120P is supposed to put out 120 lumens. 
Does not the USW0H have a maximum output of 240 lumens ? What prevents the modified novatac from pushing the USW0H to its maximum output ? CR123A cannot push it hard enough ? 

Sorry if I missed something this is still fairly new to me.


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## dinocol (Mar 21, 2008)

well, the modified novatac still has the stock circuitry. If you want to boost it to the maximum of the SSC, you should also change the circuitry inside. Changing the LED will only increase output if the replacement is more efficient than the previous one.


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## Nake (Mar 21, 2008)

Charon said:


> Newbie question. The 120P is supposed to put out 120 lumens.
> Does not the USW0H have a maximum output of 240 lumens ? What prevents the modified novatac from pushing the USW0H to its maximum output ? CR123A cannot push it hard enough ?
> 
> Sorry if I missed something this is still fairly new to me.


 
240 is the emitter output under controlled conditions at 1A. Out the front is considerably less. I don't know what the Novatac runs at on max, but I would guess less than 1A.


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## Nake (Mar 21, 2008)

dinocol said:


> Changing the LED will only increase output if the replacement is more efficient than the previous one.


 
Exactly.... what both of mine did when I changed out the emitters.


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