# .18 lumens is too bright!



## silentlurker (Jun 20, 2011)

Never thought I'd say this, but something woke me up at around 3:30 this morning so I decided to give the low-low mode on my SC51 a try, which is .18 lumens (the lowest mode on any of my flashlights). It's remarkably bright for night-adapted vision, so bright in fact that I wanted to make it even lower! It seemed low enough to not destroy my night vision but I could still see clearly. I liked it better overall then the red light from my headlights (which is considerably brighter, but overall less useful). Are there any other flashlights that offer a lower mode than .18 lumens?

I'm assuming it actually was .18 lumens and not overdriven for some odd reason (I'm using eneloops).


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## Kraid (Jun 20, 2011)

You could try encouraging lightening bugs to breed in your bedroom?

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/560859.html

Lol!


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## subwoofer (Jun 20, 2011)

I started a similar thread prior to the CPF meltdown and all the content was lost. Only my original post exists without the answer.

In brief I have the Photon Freedom Micro which has an even lower low and the Nitecore infilux range goes even lower. I have a couple of photos I'll dig out to show the difference in output.


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## subwoofer (Jun 20, 2011)

Found my other post with the photos:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ots...-Here.&p=3641358&viewfull=1#post3641358

Each of the photos uses one light from the previous one so you can see the relative decreasing outputs. The Nitecore IFD2 goes ludicrously low, so low it is not usable. For me the Freedom Micro's low is the right level to be useful and good with fully dark adapted eyes.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jun 20, 2011)

~

Try a couple layers of diffuser to scatter the light more ..........

or just wear your "Ray-Ban's" ...... (sunglasses)


If .18 is too bright ....... there is really no hope for you .


Have you considered .... night vision goggles ? ... to sleep in ?

~


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## ASheep (Jun 20, 2011)

HDS lights go down to 0.07 or 0.08 lumens. At those kind of drive levels the driver circuit is eating more power than the LED!
I use a Ra twisty 85Tr is my dedicated "low light". It is set up for red -> 0.12 -> 1.9. With dark adapted eyes, and the throwy GDP emitter in the twisty, 1.9 lumens can go a long way, plus it'll last forever on a single cell...
I've found the ultra low levels to be some of the most useful... There is nothing worse than waking up in the middle of the night, and blasting your night vision with a "low" of 5 lumens!

Cheers,
Alex


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## RepProdigious (Jun 20, 2011)

Call [email protected] for some tritium tubes and put em in an old incan reflector. Should work nicely also pretty good output for a 0mA light; about 8~10 years 'high' and diminishing output for another 20 or so years on no cell at all.....


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## subwoofer (Jun 20, 2011)

TooManyGizmos said:


> If .18 is too bright ....... there is really no hope for you .


 
I agree with the OP 100%, the .18lm of a zebralight is good, but is too bright. The Quark moon mode is about half as bright and is also too bright with fully dark adapted eyes. The Photon Freedom Micro is possibly 1/20 the output of Quark's moon mode and is perfect in total darkness.


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## Z-Tab (Jun 20, 2011)

You can buy a Novatac Storm on the cheap and set it up for a super low-low, the same as the HDS.

The Nitecore IFE and IFD lights look good, but the decision to put strobe below the lowest mode seems like a huge UI flaw to me. If you want the lowest light possible, then you probably don't want any chance of accidentally switching over to the brightest and most disorienting mode. I don't know how good the stop is at the low, but it would make a lot more sense to me if strobe was up past the high end.

The Titan T1A gets impressively low, but is not cheap.

I like the tritium idea, and would love to see a light that was just tritium tubes mounted in a reflector for a little throw. Personally, I think that tritium makes any flashlight light better, since you can actually find it in the dark.


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## ringzero (Jun 20, 2011)

silentlurker said:


> Are there any other flashlights that offer a lower mode than .18 lumens?




Yes, any 1AA or 1AAA light with an efficient driver will go lower than that when run on a depleted cell.

I have an old Streamlight 1AA with a 5mm LED that I use for just that purpose, kept bedside for middle of the night use.

With a sufficiently depleted cell, its output is incredibly dim. In fact, it'll run at levels so dim that it's useless for me to use finding my way around the house, even with dark adapted eyes.

When it gets that dim, I swap out its cell for a "new" depleted AA cell. Sometimes a "new" cell will make it too bright. No problem, just run it for a few hours to dim it down to a desirable level.

Additional tip: use depleted lithium cells to avoid the depleted cell leaking and ruining your light, which depleted alkalines are prone to do.

.


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## 2100 (Jun 20, 2011)

The "problem" is that the SC51 is a XP-G with a 17mm or so reflector, so the hot spot would still be "pretty bright". If that's a XM-L with an OP it would be ok.


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## Roger999 (Jun 20, 2011)

RepProdigious said:


> Call [email protected] for some tritium tubes and put em in an old incan reflector. Should work nicely also pretty good output for a 0mA light; about 8~10 years 'high' and diminishing output for another 20 or so years on no cell at all.....


 People actually make that, it's called a tritium map light.


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## scout24 (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm a HUGE fan of the SF Titans, two Ti and one T1A. I went on the search for the perfect nightstand light for years before coming to CPF. Freedom Micro is as low as the Titans, but the PWM kills me... Jetbeam, Nitecore, Sunwayman are all nice, but have a throw oriented reflector. Titans are floody as well as insanely low, a perfect combination. The UI and the ability to add or subtract just a bit of light is fantastic for me. Nothing comes close.


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## subwoofer (Jun 20, 2011)

scout24 said:


> I'm a HUGE fan of the SF Titans, .... Nothing comes close.


 
Nothing comes close price-wise either!


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## TooManyGizmos (Jun 20, 2011)

~

Glowing / always on PAL lights are good for night stands .

Are they too bright for you in their Glow mode ?

How many lumens are they glowing out ?

The reflectors can be removed - to make it pure flood .

~


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## subwoofer (Jun 20, 2011)

subwoofer said:


> Found my other post with the photos:
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ots...-Here.&p=3641358&viewfull=1#post3641358
> 
> Each of the photos uses one light from the previous one so you can see the relative decreasing outputs. The Nitecore IFD2 goes ludicrously low, so low it is not usable. For me the Freedom Micro's low is the right level to be useful and good with fully dark adapted eyes.


 


TooManyGizmos said:


> ~
> 
> Glowing / always on PAL lights are good for night stands .
> 
> ...


 
PAL lights don't have reflectors, but do have a lens. If you remove the lens you expose the LED.

The comparative light output is shown in the photos I included the link to earlier. Glow is really low!


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## Napalm (Jun 20, 2011)

use welding goggles.

nap.


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## lightsandknives (Jun 20, 2011)

I too have the same issues with all my "low output" lights. For total night adapted vision, they were still too bright. I started with my Nitecore D10, which I hardly ever used. A lot of water bottle caps will fit perfectly over the D10 bezel. I trimmed it up to where it was a perfect fit, and then covered the cap in gaffers tape. Any dark colored tape would work like duct tape or electrical tape. I then took a knife blade and made a very small hole in the tape where just a small amount of light could escape. It's perfect and sits on my nightstand for those late night trips to wherever.


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## scout24 (Jun 20, 2011)

Maybe one of the QTC Peaks? I'll know later this week how the low compares to the Titan/ T1A...


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## TooManyGizmos (Jun 20, 2011)

~

Yooz Guys just need to use yor Eye-Lids more ............ and SQUINT

~


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## subwoofer (Jun 20, 2011)

TooManyGizmos said:


> ~
> 
> Yooz Guys just need to use yor Eye-Lids more ............ and SQUINT
> 
> ~



Ize assyoume yooz iz bean facetious.

The OP wants a lower output light, not to squint and therefore reduce their peripheral vision and get face-ache.


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## smokelaw1 (Jun 20, 2011)

I have a tritium map reader....it's AWESOME. Nice diffuse light. If I had to guess, I'd say .01 lumens (though it's impossible to be accurate) but no hotspot, so it seems lower. WAY WAY WAY lower than the low on my HDS or Quark. In the master bedroom, where there is the LED from my cell and from the cable box on, you almost can't see it. When those are off, or if I am in the room with the baby for a while after she's asleep (DARK DARK), it's perfect. With truly dark adjusted eyes, it is perfect for JUST enough light to get around a room.


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## Napalm (Jun 20, 2011)

tritium schmitrium, pollutes the planet. say no to hazardous chemicals. grow a light bug in a jar on your night table. 100% renewable, ecological. and if you ever get so lonely & bored, you can even pet him. btw, does anyone know if there are any neutral, high CRI versions available?

nap.


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## kramer5150 (Jun 20, 2011)

DX17593 is the cheapest way I know to get a really low low output mode... depending on the price of the host you use. Not sure if its lower than .18, but it is significantly lower than the 1.8L low on my ITP-A3. It has a very pronounced PWM though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Oa0KfMjwRk


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## RepProdigious (Jun 20, 2011)

My lowest (apart from my tritium fobs) is my Quark regular on an eneloop..... still pretty bright at night but apparently im not as easily blinded as some people here because i dont have any problems using it with adjusted eyes at night.


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## mhphoto (Jun 20, 2011)

Perhaps someone can crack open a CR2 Quark Mini and set it up to hold a tritium disk like those neat map readers. I would if I had extra money.


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## Cataract (Jun 20, 2011)

I agree, sometimes ~0.2 lumens can seem harsh when you turn it on. I used to keep depleted cells in my E01, but now I use my IFE2.

The 0.03 lumen low is juuust enough light to see the floor right in front of my feet; I do have a light grey carpet and it is very very dark in my appartment at night. I is not useful, however if I'm trying to make out more complicated objects or if I want to see more than 1-2 feet ahead (except for the infamous white wall). The best part is being able to find the exact amount of light needed and also the possibility of dimming back when it's too much.

I also have a pre-order on a Zebra SC31 red. 0.18 lumens with a red LED should be a lot more pleasant on the eyes at night.


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## JohnnyLunar (Jun 20, 2011)

I know this is a round-about way of getting what you're asking for, but here is my temporary "house night light" solution:

Take 1 Maratac or iTP AAA, with a 1.8 lumen low, put in a depleted lithium AAA battery, and place a green Blistex lip balm cap over the head (absolutely perfect tight fit). You get soft, glowing, filtered and diffused green light that can go way below it's 1.8 lumens with a depleted cell. My Maratac is one of my EDC lights, so I always keep a fresh battery in it, and 1.8 lumens is not low enough for the role being discussed here, but if I have a really depleted lithium AAA laying around, I'll test it.


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## Launch Mini (Jun 20, 2011)

Probably out of your budget, buy a SPY007, level 1 set very low works nicely for me. I also prefer the warm version for low low middle of the night stuff.


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## robertrock (Jun 20, 2011)

As was said earlier, the HDS and Novatacs go down to .08L. I use the 120P set to .33L and use an F04 SF diffuser. No PWM effect and lights up the room pretty well. (With night adapted eyes)

I'm still experimenting on how low I can go (0.08 is too low with the F04) and still be able to see and not get blinded.


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## nbp (Jun 20, 2011)

scout24 said:


> I'm a HUGE fan of the SF Titans, two Ti and one T1A. I went on the search for the perfect nightstand light for years before coming to CPF. Freedom Micro is as low as the Titans, but the PWM kills me... Jetbeam, Nitecore, Sunwayman are all nice, but have a throw oriented reflector. Titans are floody as well as insanely low, a perfect combination. The UI and the ability to add or subtract just a bit of light is fantastic for me. Nothing comes close.



I agree with Scout 100%. T1A is the absolute perfect nightstand light. I honestly do not see it being replaced from mine any time soon.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 20, 2011)

Napalm said:


> tritium schmitrium, pollutes the planet. say no to hazardous chemicals. grow a light bug in a jar on your night table. 100% renewable, ecological. and if you ever get so lonely & bored, you can even pet him. btw, does anyone know if there are any neutral, high CRI versions available?
> 
> nap.


 neutral high CRI lightning bugs? LOL


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## ringzero (Jun 20, 2011)

I use an old Streamlight 1AA with a depleted cell for low level light.

With a fresh cell it outputs something like 8 lumens on high and 2 lumens on low, using PWM to obtain the low.

With a very depleted cell, it is actually substantially brighter on LOW setting than on HIGH setting.

Guess that full on HIGH setting pulls the cell voltage lower than the 25 percent duty cycle of the LOW setting, resulting in the lower output on HIGH.

.


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## Flying Turtle (Jun 20, 2011)

This may be a job for your old Mini-Mag with worn-out batteries. Seriously, I'll vote for the PAL light for an economical approach.

Geoff


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## IcantC (Jun 20, 2011)

Use a fenix e0 or gerber infinity with a depleted battery. If you need lower, then you don't need a light.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 21, 2011)

I must say that this is one popular thread!! I find that an HDS (RA) Hi CRI to be sufficient for walking around at night after awakening, and it's beam is easy on the eyes. I mostly use an LFX2T with a modded XP-G neutral on a very low setting to be excellent with its nice floody beam, with no harsh hotspot.

Bill


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## TooManyGizmos (Jun 21, 2011)

~
Yes, it is a popular and interesting thread .
But I'm having trouble comprehending the true brightness of .18 lumens . To me , that is a very,very low amount of light . Isn't that just 1/5th of a lumen ? How can we relate to that if we don't have a standard to compare it to ? 

What common item do we all have that could be used as a standard bench mark ?

I can NOT think of even one single thing that does not waver in intensity or brightness that we could use as a benchmark standard . Comparing single lit matches can vary in brightness .

That is why this is so impossible to discuss and agree on . 
And all our eyes and brains analyze stimulus in different ways.

Who can definitively explain and convey the value of .18 lumens ?

And how can I consistently reproduce exactly what YOU see ?

One man's trash is another man's treasure ... even in Lights .

~


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## beerwax (Jun 21, 2011)

..........


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## RepProdigious (Jun 21, 2011)

.18 isn 1/5th... more like 1/6th or 2/11th LOL

Woke up tonight and noticed a green glow on the left side of the bed with enough brightness so i could clearly make out the ceiling, furniture and other stuff in my bedroom. It was my keychains tritium tube, i guess my keys fell out of my pants or something and id almost say that with my completely dark adjusted sleepy eyes its enough to see where i'm going. Is there a chart somewhere that shows how much lumens those tubes put out for different sizes and ages?


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## Cataract (Jun 21, 2011)

TooManyGizmos said:


> ~
> Yes, it is a popular and interesting thread .
> But I'm having trouble comprehending the true brightness of .18 lumens . To me , that is a very,very low amount of light . Isn't that just 1/5th of a lumen ? How can we relate to that if we don't have a standard to compare it to ?
> 
> ...



you have to see it for yourself, I don't think there's a way to explain it. What I can say, however is that the first time, it seems like an almost unusable amount of light. Then you try it at night and figure it's probably the least amount of usable light. Then your brain actually adapts to this new lowest amount of light (no kidding, real life example to follow) and then it might even be a little much when it comes on suddenly.

For those who have a hard time digesting this: I have to enter dark rooms every now and then (I don't work there, just repair equipment.) The first time I went in there, I still couldn't see a thing after 20 minutes, and I'm not the only one. With time, the brain figures there's a signal hiding in there somewhere and finally you start seeing more and more. Now I can go in after being on a bright factory floor and see something after a few seconds. If I stay in there for minutes, I can see just about everything there is to see.

I figure the same goes with a dim light (dimmer than 0.2 lumens). The more you have to deal with it, the better you brain will be able to read the signal and the more you can see. Even 0.03 lumens is not completely useless, you just have to get used to it.



beerwax said:


> not only is .18 lumens way too much, but i really want something with a soft start. not all .18 lumens in one big hit. ease into it. maybe start at .01 lumens and gently ramp to .1 over 2 seconds. with a nice warm tint and a gentle beam. thats what id like. cheers.



IFE2, man... you'll get the exact amount of light you want, you can check it's on low BEFORE turning it on, you can dim it down when you need even less... I might have one grafted to my arm soon...

I also have a strip of top quality phosphorescent tape that I blasted with my light before going to bed... makes a nice night lamp that slowly dims while you fall asleep. Wouldn't be bright enough after a few hours, though, but I like the tritium vial version of this.


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## subwoofer (Jun 21, 2011)

I just used my photon freedom micro again at 03:00 when woken up by a kidney stone. Silent to turn on (no switch click sound) and can come on in low. This was just the perfect amount of light.

If you want to see a comparison, check out the photos I linked to in an earlier post.

The freedom micro is cheap enough just to get one to try, and you won't be disappointed. Worst case you'll have a fully featured light on your key chain.


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## fyrstormer (Jun 21, 2011)

Napalm said:


> tritium schmitrium, pollutes the planet. say no to hazardous chemicals. grow a light bug in a jar on your night table. 100% renewable, ecological. and if you ever get so lonely & bored, you can even pet him. btw, does anyone know if there are any neutral, high CRI versions available?
> 
> nap.


Yeah, tritium isn't hazardous. Tritium is continuously produced in seawater by incoming radiation from the sun. You get covered in the stuff every time you go to the beach. When it fizzes it just turns into helium.


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## fyrstormer (Jun 21, 2011)

subwoofer said:


> I just used my photon freedom micro again at 03:00 when woken up by a kidney stone. Silent to turn on (no switch click sound) and can come on in low. This was just the perfect amount of light.


Given what I've heard about kidney stones, I'm amazed you were able to spare the attention to care how bright your flashlight was. In any event, time for you to go soak in an ultrasonic bathtub.


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## purelite (Jun 21, 2011)

This is pretty funny. at .18 you seemd to retain your nightvision and you could see clearly. I dont understand the problem. Do you seek a light that will not allow you to see in the dark? Doesnt that defeat the purpose of a light?  Sounds like the light is working great?


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## TooManyGizmos (Jun 21, 2011)

~
I tried to get a LRI Proton Pro last month but they were out of stock.

I need something very light weight for the key chain . I'll try again .

They seem to have a good low-low at a good price point .

Does anyone know any reason not to try one ?

I have a Liteflux LF2xt R-5 .........
Can I expect the Proton Pro' s LOW to be lower than the LF2Xt ?

~


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## Thujone (Jun 21, 2011)

Napalm said:


> tritium schmitrium, pollutes the planet. say no to hazardous chemicals.


 
Says Napalm.... LOL


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## JohnnyLunar (Jun 21, 2011)

I did a little test last night. I ran my Maratac AAA on a slightly depleted cell, that measured about 1.49V. After a few stages over the course of the night, leaving it on for about 15 minutes at a time in different modes, I ran the cell down to 1.2V. I know that's not that low, but I didn't want to deplete to the point the light wouldn't even come on in medium or high. I then put the green Blistex cap over the bezel, and went into a pitch black bathroom. I left the light off for about 3 minutes to try and get my eyes adjusted. Then I turned on the low mode (now more like 1 lumen). It still filled the entire bathroom with glowing green light.

It works in a pinch, but for someone who needs a house light that will not effect dark adapted vision at all, and will be just barely enough light to see shapes right in front of you, a variable light, or a light that goes way below 1 lumen seems like a necessity. I'm thinking of getting my first Zebralight soon, an H51FW, and I'm curious if it's low low of .18 will be low enough for me in this situation.


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## Flying Turtle (Jun 21, 2011)

TooManyGizmos said:


> ~
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just did a quick ceiling bounce comparison. The LF2XT appears to be a bit lower. Also, the Proton Pro has a more pronounced hot spot. Of course the red LED of the Pro does provide a lower low.

Geoff


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## subwoofer (Jun 21, 2011)

TooManyGizmos said:


> ~
> 
> Can I expect the Proton Pro' s LOW to be lower than the LF2Xt ?
> 
> ~


 
TooManyGizmos, why do all your posts have a tilde(~) at the start and end? No one else seems to have this odd bracketing.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jun 21, 2011)

~

Thanks Geoff ,

If that's the case I guess I'll just stick with the Liteflux.
If I can't tell there's a light on in the room with my eyelids closed , it's low enough.

Hey subwoofer ,

Those are my trademark (~) Tilde~cows~come~home symbols .
Just personal markings ~ more/or/less like an E-mail signature.

It means ..."This message sent from my Desk Top" as approximate opinion .

HeHe 
~


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## DM51 (Jun 22, 2011)

subwoofer said:


> why do all your posts have a tilda (~) at the start and end?





TooManyGizmos said:


> ~
> 
> Those are my trademark (~) Tilde~cows~come~home symbols
> 
> ~


*Faults in My-Tilda, faults in My-Tilda, *
*Who'll find the faults in My-Tilda and me?*
*And he sang as he watched and waited with his Zebralight,*
*Who'll find the faults-in My-Tilda today!*​ 
Sorry... carry on. LOL


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## CKOD (Jun 22, 2011)

Z-Tab said:


> ...The Nitecore IFE and IFD lights look good, but the decision to put strobe below the lowest mode seems like a huge UI flaw to me. If you want the lowest light possible, then you probably don't want any chance of accidentally switching over to the brightest and most disorienting mode. I don't know how good the stop is at the low, but it would make a lot more sense to me if strobe was up past the high end.
> 
> ...



Its not really a problem either way, as its behind a detent, so you turn it down, it clicks into the "off" detent, and then turn it more for it to come out of the off detent before it goes to strobing. Or turn it into the detent, and back to the right just enough to come out of the detent, and you get a nice low mode where the die is barely lit, but at night is perfect for pitch black rooms. Unless you're being ham handed it shouldnt be a problem. And if you are being ham handed, it'll quickly teach you to not be so ham handed.


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## DM51 (Jun 23, 2011)

Oh dear. A stony silence has descended on this thread. Perhaps my irreverent pun version of _*Waltzing Matilda*_ (2 posts above ^ ) has upset the Aussies... sorry guys, meant no offense!


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## mvyrmnd (Jun 23, 2011)

DM51 said:


> Oh dear. A stony silence has descended on this thread. Perhaps my irreverent pun version of _*Waltzing Matilda*_ (2 posts above ^ ) has upset the Aussies... sorry guys, meant no offense!


 
It takes much more than that to offend an Australian!


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## subwoofer (Jun 23, 2011)

DM51 said:


> Oh dear. A stony silence has descended on this thread. Perhaps my irreverent pun version of _*Waltzing Matilda*_ (2 posts above ^ ) has upset the Aussies... sorry guys, meant no offense!


 
You started me off having a tune I couldn't get out of my head. Now it is back again!!


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## Napalm (Jun 23, 2011)

DM51 said:


> Oh dear. A stony silence has descended on this thread.


 
We're busy growing the light bugs.

Nap.


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## [email protected] (Jun 23, 2011)

IcantC said:


> Use a fenix e0 or gerber infinity with a depleted battery.




Copying the Gerber Infinity concept, I placed a red 5mm LED into a CR123a host with a 2 stage tailcap, it's absolutely perfect for extremely low light night applications with high being just a little less than my Jet III M's lowest setting (2Lm IIRC) but in a diffused output style 


So that would be my suggestion for a dedicated low-low flashlight, a modified P60 module in any P60 compatible host you like (resistored to your personal output requirement), in fact there's a thread already dealing with such a configuration HERE


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## rickypanecatyl (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm guessing my 2,000 lumen varapower is about .02 lumens in the lowest mode - fine for looking straight into the led with night adapted vision. I often leave it on all night in that mode when sleeping outside in the jungle for the sake of finding it.

For referance, anyone know how many lumens those smaller size trits are?

FWIW I find powers of 10 in lumens good jumps for when one level is too bright or dim... ie if I could have a magnetic control ring light I'd put levels on it spaced 8-10X apart such as .03, .3, 3, 30, 300 and of course I'd want a 3,000 lumen level  If .03 was similar to a trit (never seen one in the dark) I'd skip that level on a light and just use the trit.


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## Napalm (Aug 28, 2011)

Roger999 said:


>



Nice tint, I could have sworn it's a Quark.

Nap.


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## mhphoto (Aug 28, 2011)

Napalm said:


> Nice tint, I could have sworn it's a Quark.
> 
> Nap.


 
Bwahahaha


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## AO JAR (Aug 28, 2011)

Napalm said:


> We're busy growing the light bugs.
> 
> Nap.


 
Hi Nap, you think those light bugs have grown big enough to pet yet. LoL


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## Napalm (Aug 28, 2011)

AO JAR said:


> Hi Nap, you think those light bugs have grown big enough to pet yet. LoL


 
Not yet but they're cute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tzG9cxi2o4

Nap.


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## AO JAR (Aug 28, 2011)

Napalm said:


> Not yet but they're cute:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tzG9cxi2o4
> 
> Nap.


 Nap, I think those light bugs would be a good .18 lumen flashlight substitute


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## AO JAR (Aug 28, 2011)

Napalm said:


> Not yet but they're cute:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tzG9cxi2o4
> 
> Nap.



Nap, I think those light bugs would be a good .18 lumen flashlight substitute 

Thanks for posting the link


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## Burgess (Aug 28, 2011)

to DM51 --


I very much *enjoyed* yer' rendition of *Waltzing Matilda* !


:goodjob::thanks:
_


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## tolkaze (Aug 28, 2011)

I liked the Waltzing Matilda rendition as well 

anyways, I found that even the low-low of a Ra, or Novatac can still be a little high, you can diffuse them, but then they become too low. 

I'm trialling the Photon Freedom Micro in Amber with a sanded LED to diffuse the light out... Low start has never been so low, too low maybe... but easily ramped up. Good night time light because it gives better depth and hurts your eyes less than red, but still allows you to "preserve" some kind of night vision. Still suffers the same as any monochromatic light though, in that everything looks flat, and can make navigation very difficult... is that object on the ground a sock, or is it a small box of some kind... White would instantly differentiate, but mono lights can make it hard


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## Napalm (Aug 29, 2011)

tolkaze said:


> Good night time light because it gives better depth and hurts your eyes less than red, but still allows you to "preserve" some kind of night vision. Still suffers the same as any monochromatic light though, in that everything looks flat, and can make navigation very difficult... is that object on the ground a sock, or is it a small box of some kind...


 
I don't get it. If your night vision alone is not enough to see anything, then why would you be concerned with "preserving" it?

Nap. :shrug:


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## leon2245 (Aug 29, 2011)

> .18 lumens is too bright!


 
Just for reference, what fraction of a lumen are electronics' standby dots? Bright enough to cover with tape at night, to preserve NAV? 









One could hang a GITD skeleton on a stick. They used to come in boxes of Captain Crunch. I'm just concerned about its potential to cause permanent retina damage to those with _ultra_ NAV:





Beamshot:




:duck:

_To the integrating sphere!_


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## brembo (Aug 29, 2011)

_To the integrating sphere!_


That made me giggle, and I just woke up. It may have set the tone of my day. Thank you very much.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 29, 2011)

leon2245 said:


> Just for reference, what fraction of a lumen are electronics' standby dots? Bright enough to cover with tape at night, to preserve NAV?


 
The red LEDs are no problem for night vision, it is the blue ones I detest. I don't know why they had to start using blue LEDs for power indicators when red and green were just fine.


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## GarageBoy (Aug 29, 2011)

Fresh Tritium tubes are too bright...
I'll take the 10 yr aged trit tubes


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## Burgess (Aug 29, 2011)

FWIW --

Last night, i solved my Sudoku puzzle,
using the *Lowest mode* on my ZebraLight H51fw headlamp.

That's *0.16* Lumens, according to ZebraLight (out-the-front).

Note: i did NOT have this light on my head. Held it in my left hand, while i wrote with my right hand.

It was certainly *adequate* for this task.


Hope this helps to put things in perspective here.


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## Samy (Aug 30, 2011)

Burgess said:


> FWIW --
> 
> Last night, i solved my Sudoku puzzle,
> using the *Lowest mode* on my ZebraLight H51fw headlamp.
> ...


 

Note to manufacturers: Bring on 0.01 lumen flashlights LOL


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 30, 2011)

And people used to complain about how dim a solitaire incan was


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## geckoblink (Aug 30, 2011)

You people are nuts. I mean that in the nicest possible way.


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## kaichu dento (Aug 30, 2011)

Cataract said:


> you have to see it for yourself, I don't think there's a way to explain it. What I can say, however is that the first time, it seems like an almost unusable amount of light. Then you try it at night and figure it's probably the least amount of usable light. Then your brain actually adapts to this new lowest amount of light (no kidding, real life example to follow) and then it might even be a little much when it comes on suddenly.
> 
> For those who have a hard time digesting this: I have to enter dark rooms every now and then (I don't work there, just repair equipment.) The first time I went in there, I still couldn't see a thing after 20 minutes, and I'm not the only one. With time, the brain figures there's a signal hiding in there somewhere and finally you start seeing more and more. Now I can go in after being on a bright factory floor and see something after a few seconds. If I stay in there for minutes, I can see just about everything there is to see.
> 
> I figure the same goes with a dim light (dimmer than 0.2 lumens). The more you have to deal with it, the better you brain will be able to read the signal and the more you can see. Even 0.03 lumens is not completely useless, you just have to get used to it.


One of the best posts of the thread so far. It's also worth pointing out that people just get better at whatever they do on a regular basis, vision being no exception.

I found my L0D to be just right on low when I first got it, but soon realized that I was hesitant to turn it on when it truly dark situations, because I needed my eyesight to still be sensitive enough to navigate the trails around home or the hot springs without taking the couple minutes it would otherwise take to see again.


Samy said:


> Note to manufacturers: Bring on 0.01 lumen flashlights LOL


It probably won't be long before it's fairly common, but I think some of the lower output lights already have the capability.


Lynx_Arc said:


> And people used to complain about how dim a solitaire incan was


Yeah, but that was because the Solitaire was dim on high!


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## Sub_Umbra (Aug 30, 2011)

I fully agree with the OP that .18 lumens is too bright for many tasks. Same is true for my HDS EDC on lowest at .08 lumens. The only lights I own that really go low enough are my depowered Photon Freedom and my Rigel MIL Starlite Mini.

After training many in the use of dim flashlights to accomplish tasks unnoticed in the dark it began to occur to me that there is much more to this than meets the eye.  The use of dim lights requires *more concentration than visual acuity. * It's the same problem whether you're on the bridge of a ship or huddled under a piece of scenery on stage.

If you want to see more under low light conditions, *calm yourself.* Control your breathing. Get yourself into a place where _more of your mind_ can go to work on what your eyes are seeing.


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## Napalm (Aug 30, 2011)

Sub_Umbra said:


> Get yourself into a place where _more of your mind_ can go to work on what your eyes are seeing.



Agreed. We don't need no stinkin' lumens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Ar79f8aN8

Nap.


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## Sub_Umbra (Aug 30, 2011)

Follow the dim light first, Weedhopper.


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## kaichu dento (Aug 31, 2011)

Sub_Umbra said:


> Follow the dim light first, Weedhopper.


Since I looked a lot like Kwai Chang Caine when I was younger my best friend used to either call me that or Weedhopper, so I thought for just a second you were talking to me!

Anyway, I will do as you say and follow my favorite low beam into the night...


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## leon2245 (Aug 31, 2011)

sub umbra said:


> ...free your MIND...



_Morpheus?_


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## leon2245 (Aug 31, 2011)

Do you think it is light that you are seeing now? Hmmm?


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 31, 2011)

I wonder how many lumens a firefly is.


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