# Rotary Tables?



## StrikerDown (Feb 19, 2009)

Wondering if anyone knows anything about these R Tables from Grizzly?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/H7527

I have been looking on eBay, but I think Barry has bought all the good stuff! 

How large of a table is "too big" for the RF 31, should I find a deal on eBay?


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## precisionworks (Feb 19, 2009)

> I think Barry has bought all the good stuff!


All those things were bought a while ago 

9" is a nice size for that mill, and there's a Troyke (identical to mine) currently listed. Top is pre-drilled, meaning that it probably will not get a minimum bid of $229.99. After the auction ends, it's worth making an offer ... $125 to $150 ... and see if the seller will work with you.

A top full of holes is nothing to worry about IF you make an auxillary top out of 1" thick aluminum. Drill & tap a radial pattern in the aluminum (for the same size hold down bolts that fit the T-slots on the mill). The aux top is many times easier to work with than the 4 T-slots in the rotary table.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rotary-Table-Troyke-9-R-335-49_W0QQitemZ380105072364QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item380105072364&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

This 8" Yuasa is nice, and worth the $250 buy-it-now price if your budget can stand that. Made in Japan, top quality.
http://cgi.ebay.com/YUASA-8-HORIZONTAL-ROTARY-TABLE-550-108-NICE_W0QQitemZ200312136375QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item200312136375&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318


This 10" Brown & Sharpe is older than time itself (1950's ???) but just as nice as the Troyke. Try a $150 offer & see what he says.
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-dia-Brown-Sharpe-Rotary-Table-Milling-Machine_W0QQitemZ250376620270QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item250376620270&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318


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## StrikerDown (Feb 19, 2009)

An aux table sounds like a great idea. (room for errant drill tips!) About how many radials and what would be good spacing of the holes?

Would Heli coil inserts be a good idea? I think I have some from another project that might be the right size.

Speaking of hitting the table... When you need to drill through or machine the sides of parts how do you do it without hitting the table? Spacer up above the surface somehow when clamping it down? Seems like something to avoid!:sick2:

I'm watching those tables on eBay thanks. I'm wondering though about milling long slots/flutes in Flash light bodies & heads, gun barrels etc. would a vertical index table be a better item to have?

Thanks,

Ray


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## precisionworks (Feb 20, 2009)

> milling long slots/flutes in Flash light bodies & heads, gun barrels etc


You may want to look at a coffee grinder (spin index) with tailstock. They aren't expensive, and index to one degree.







That's a Suburban Tool Inc. Spin-Master. Seller had it listed as a lathe on eBay, and my $15 bid won the auction. That's about the best snag ever, as it retails for $668:nana:



> Would Heli coil inserts be a good idea?


With a 1" thick top, you won't need them until the holes get really worn, which could take quite a while.



> About how many radials and what would be good spacing


Four will give you the same clamping pattern as the T-slots in the table, and 1" spacing is about right. Then add holes as needed for different jobs.



> how do you do it without hitting the table?


Most people use "scrap parallels", which can be 4 of anything square that are the same dimension. Brazed on carbide tool bits are cheap enough, as are unground HSS square tool blanks. In a pinch, four big hex nuts will work.


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## Mirage_Man (Feb 20, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> That's a Suburban Tool Inc. Spin-Master. Seller had it listed as a lathe on eBay, and my $15 bid won the auction. That's about the best snag ever, as it retails for $668:nana:



Wow! What condition was it in?


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## precisionworks (Feb 20, 2009)

> What condition was it in?


It had been lightly used. The mouth, where the collet is inserted, was clean & unscored. I phoned Suburban & talked to a senior engineer in quality control - he'd worked there 20+ years, and knew this index inside & out. He said to set up a tenth reading dial test indicator and observe the TIR, which can be no more than .0005" (same as +/- .00025").

The spindle indicated well under that, and he said it was ready to use. They do offer a refurbish service on that index, about $200 IIRC.

The only missing part was the index pin, the one with the black knurled head at the 0 position in the photo. Made one from a short piece of .125" W1 drill rod, turned a knurled aluminum head, and been using it ever since. The way I figure it, that missing pin must have been worth the $653 that I didn't have to pay:nana:

http://www.subtool.com/st/SM5C.shtml


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## StrikerDown (Feb 20, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> You may want to look at a coffee grinder (spin index) with tailstock. They aren't expensive, and index to one degree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




$668.00, Not expensive 

Thank god for eBay eh!

Are the cheap Chinese models adequate? They are still more than what you paid. You stole that sucker! 

Nu BE Question: is the crank handle like a draw bar to tighten the collets?


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## precisionworks (Feb 20, 2009)

> Are the cheap Chinese models adequate?


Some are probably very good, some are awful, and most are in between the extremes. The only way to tell is to indicate the spindle with a tenth reading dial test. 

The reason that the Suburban maintains accuracy over a long period of time is that the spindle is lathe turned slightly over size, hardened, then ground to final dimension. The bore is reamed to final dimension, and the spindle-to-bore fit feels like a piston in a cylinder.

If you don't want to spend a lot of time looking, order this one:

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=1464

Notice that the photo is the same one that Suburban shows on their website ... 
which means that someone is making a really close copy. It also has a hardened & ground spindle, so it should last. If you buy that one, check it with a dial test indicator & exchange it for another if the run out is too great.



> is the crank handle like a draw bar to tighten the collets?


It serves two functions, one of which is to pull the 5C collet into the taper, to tighten the collet onto a part. It also allows spinning a part, which is used when OD grinding is done. The spin index is placed on the surface grinder (with the part projecting from the collet), the wheel is lowered to contact the part, and the handle is turned to spin the part against the wheel. I've used it to make special form twist drills, where the last 1/2" is ground to a smaller diameter. It's also handy when you need a tap drill with a special diameter, which often happens to me when using thread forming taps.


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## StrikerDown (Feb 21, 2009)

Barry,

I think I will probably Get the one from Penn Tool, thanks. This looks like it will work with a barrel for cutting flutes assuming I can find the correct size collet. But it brings up another dumb question (of course). Barrels are long, is there a steady rest type fixture for support?

And how do you hold something larger than a collet? like a 2 D maglight body and head. I really want to start cutting on an old Maglight for practice. The worn spots could be turned down to fresh alum and look brand new and custom. Of course I need to get the lathe before I can turn some of the stuff on the tubes but I should be able to start with cutting flutes in the head and bodies if I can fogure out how to hold them?

I just found the https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/54273 thread to start reading so I'm sure lots of questions will be answered there.


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## StrikerDown (Feb 21, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> It also allows spinning a part, which is used when OD grinding is done. The spin index is placed on the surface grinder (with the part projecting from the collet), the wheel is lowered to contact the part, and the handle is turned to spin the part against the wheel. I've used it to make special form twist drills, where the last 1/2" is ground to a smaller diameter. It's also handy when you need a tap drill with a special diameter, which often happens to me when using thread forming taps.


 
Can this be used on the mill also to cut around the circumference?


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## Mirage_Man (Feb 21, 2009)

I bought the cheapy import spin indexer from Enco. It suits me fine for the work I'll be doing until I can afford a nice super spacer or rotary table with chuck.


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## wquiles (Feb 21, 2009)

Mirage_Man said:


> I bought the cheapy import spin indexer from Enco. It suits me fine for the work I'll be doing until I can afford a nice super spacer or rotary table with chuck.
> 
> [/IMG]



Brian - for the work we do, it is definitely good enough 

I do have a 6" rotary table that I got from Grizzly, but I need to buy a chuck for it - then it will be super useful 

Will


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## StrikerDown (Feb 21, 2009)

Will,

Can you use the chuck off the 7 X 10 and buy a better chuck for the lathe?

Which rotary did you get?


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## precisionworks (Feb 22, 2009)

> Barrels are long, is there a steady rest type fixture for support?


What you'll end up with are a number of steady rests between the spin index and the tailstock support.

As long as the muzzle end is 1" diameter or less, and the flutes stop something short of the muzzle, that end can go in the 5C collet. The tailstock will support the chamber end, and the height of the tailstock will need to be adjusted so that the top of the barrel is parallel to the bed of the mill (if you want the flutes to be the same depth from end to end). 

You'll need to make support blocks (called jacks) that are placed under the barrel. Aluminum can work well for making the jacks. Each jack will have a channel milled into it that is a mirror image of the part of the barrel that it supports, and a tapered barrel means a number of tapered channel jacks. You'll want to leave flanges or feet on the table side of each jack to make them easy to clamp to the table.

If you can support as much of the bottom of the barrel as possible, the end mill will flute with little or no chatter. If chatter occurs, provide more jack support, or reduce speed, feed, or depth of cut.



> how do you hold something larger than a collet


For work above 1" diameter, the easiest solution is a rotary table, mounted in the vertical position, with a lathe chuck attached. Again, you'll need to make or buy a tailstock to support the outboard end. If you buy a chuck with two-piece top jaws, you can bore a number of aluminum 'soft jaws' to fit C-cell, D-cell, Surefire, etc.



> Can this be used on the mill also to cut around the circumference?


Any type of circumferential cuts are best made on the lathe, because the lathe has a massive headstock that houses large bearings that support a sturdy spindle. Contrast that to the spin index, and it's like comparing a cruise ship to a canoe ... very little mass to support the piece being machined. The reason that a spin index is primarily a grinder fixture is that grinding forces are small & linear, compared to milling forces that are larger & rotational.


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## wquiles (Feb 22, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> Wondering if anyone knows anything about these R Tables from Grizzly?
> 
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/H7527
> 
> ...



I am pretty sure that is the same kit that I got from Grizzly about a year ago or so. I have not used it much since my X2 mini-mill did not have much room for it, but I am hoping to use it more with my knee mill.

Will


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## Mirage_Man (Feb 22, 2009)

I will be getting at least an 8" if not a 10" table. I want to be able to put a D mag body through the hole in whatever chuck I end up using on it. That means at least a 6" chuck. An 8" chuck would offer a 2" hole which could certainly come in handy too.


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## wquiles (Feb 23, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> Will,
> 
> Can you use the chuck off the 7 X 10 and buy a better chuck for the lathe?
> 
> Which rotary did you get?



This one is the one I have:
http://grizzly.com/products/6-Rotary-Table-w-Div-Plates/H7527

I no longer have the 7x, nor the 8x lathe - just the PM12x36. The chuck on my lathe PM12x36 is like $800-900 right now, so I will probably keep it on my lathe and buy something cheaper for the rotary table 

That being said, with the new-to-me knee mill, the 6" rotary table kit from Grizzly is now too small for me, so I will try to sell it and get an 8" or 10" instead :devil:

Will


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## StrikerDown (Feb 23, 2009)

Will, My bad, I was confusing you with Will... You're not him!

The other Will was having run out issues with his mini lathe chuck.

I might be interested in the Kit. I too have been lusting on eBay, darn tooling is wearing out my wallet, won't be getting a lathe if I am not careful.

Edit: I have to wait to see if an offer I have in on a Troyke is accepted or not before I can consider your kit though. PM me with the asking price when you get a chance.

Ray


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## wquiles (Feb 26, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> I might be interested in the Kit. I too have been lusting on eBay, darn tooling is wearing out my wallet, won't be getting a lathe if I am not careful.
> 
> Edit: I have to wait to see if an offer I have in on a Troyke is accepted or not before I can consider your kit though. PM me with the asking price when you get a chance.
> 
> Ray



Ray - no worries. The 6" kit that I have is too small for me, and I used it only once, so it is still brand new. I will sell it for 1/2 of what I paid (1/2 of the price Grizzly lists in the link on post #1), plus actual shipping to you. Let me know 

Will


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## gadget_lover (Feb 26, 2009)

If Ray does not want it, please ping me. For my uses it might be just right.


Daniel


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## wquiles (Feb 26, 2009)

gadget_lover said:


> If Ray does not want it, please ping me. For my uses it might be just right.
> 
> 
> Daniel



Sounds good Daniel. I rather keep "it" here in the family 

Will


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## StrikerDown (Feb 26, 2009)

Will, 
I just heard that my offer on the 9 " Troyke was the winner. If I had only known you would be selling before I placed that bid. Just bad timing. Thank you anyway.

What? it's not half price on the shipping too? 

The Troyke is an older looking one but It is supposed to work very well and it's supposed to be tight and smooth. I'm going to do like Barry suggested and put an auxiliary top on it and a pattern of holes drilled and tapped. I found some 1" alum disks in various sizes at a local metal surp store Now if I they just have one 9" dia I'll be all set. I came in at $165.00 ($120 + $45 S&H) Not too bad for a Troyk!

Now I need to find a 5c collet set for the spin index! Will it ever end :thinking:

Barry, 
Can the top on the Troyke be bead blasted to freshen it up without damage? I don't know if the glass beads would blow into an area that would cause rough operation or damage. Also what do you think about filling the few over drill's with an epoxy like JB weld or such. Not that it matters much with a top but it would look better in my minds eye! :twothumbs


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## precisionworks (Feb 26, 2009)

> Can the top on the Troyke be bead blasted to freshen it up without damage?


I believe you can do that without any problems. The top is not hard to remove from the base, and Troyke mailed me the written instructions - PM your fax number & I'll send it over.

They are heavily built, and well fitted. There's an adjustment to vary the engagement of the worm gear to the table (also covered in the instructions). The president of the company answered the phone (amazing) and told me the year & month mine was made ... around 1975 IIRC. It's still nice & tight (you can adjust that as well).



> 1" alum disks in various sizes at a local metal surp store


My top is 12", but you can make any size you feel is good for what you do. Mine started as a square cutoff, and was band sawed round (more or less). Then it was mounted to the RT, and the outside edge was trimmed with the side of an end mill, which allows you to use the edge of the new disc to center the RT under the spindle.


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## gadget_lover (Feb 27, 2009)

wquiles said:


> Sounds good Daniel. I rather keep "it" here in the family
> 
> Will



I see a new toy in the near future.


Thanks Ray! Thanks Will!

Daniel


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## StrikerDown (Feb 27, 2009)

Good for you Daniel that is a great buy, Now if Will would give me that same deal on a 12 X 36!

Ray


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## StrikerDown (Feb 27, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> My top is 12", but you can make any size you feel is good for what you do. Mine started as a square cutoff, and was band sawed round (more or less). Then it was mounted to the RT, and the outside edge was trimmed with the side of an end mill, which allows you to use the edge of the new disc to center the RT under the spindle.


 
I didn't think about making it bigger, I will if I can find a larger piece, 10 -12".

The metal surplus place sells the scrap by the pound so finding a round peice is cool no waste to pay for :twothumbs

Looks like I have my first project for the new mill. Woo Hoo!


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## gadget_lover (Feb 27, 2009)

Just in case there are other lurkers who are drooling.... Paypal sent!




This will save me two projects. 
1) Building a tailstock for my small rotary table
2) Setting up a secondary vernier to allow my spin indexer to do 1/2 and 1/3 degrees.

I'm a happy man.

Daniel


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## StrikerDown (Feb 27, 2009)

Daniel,

Thanks for reminding me, now I need a tail stock!

I think I'm going to get the basic tools I need then start making the basic tooling that I can when I get the lathe!

Ray


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## StrikerDown (Feb 27, 2009)

*What BUMs*

Here is what I agreed to last night:

"Hi: Sorry for the delay. We would accept $165.00 and we will include the shipping and handling."

and today I get the pay pal invoice for $208.65 for the Troyke!:devil:

Looks like they are billing for the shipping. Unless I am stupid "we will include S&H" means it is included in the quoted price! 

I hope they made a simple mistake, if not they are trying to pull the wool! :devil::devil:

So, am I stupid or should the total be $165?


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## wquiles (Feb 27, 2009)

gadget_lover said:


> Just in case there are other lurkers who are drooling.... Paypal sent!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Daniel,

Payment received - thanks 

And yes, this comes with everything in the picture from Grizzly, including the still-in-the-plastic-bag tailstock and indexing plates 

Will


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## wquiles (Feb 27, 2009)

*Re: What BUMs*



StrikerDown said:


> Here is what I agreed to last night:
> 
> "Hi: Sorry for the delay. We would accept $165.00 and we will include the shipping and handling."
> 
> ...



I don't know what they meant (only THEY know for sure), but at least to me it "sounds" like they would pay for the S/H. The other angle would be that they meant "and we will let you know later how much is the S/H". I honestly can't know for sure (English is my second language!).

Will


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## precisionworks (Feb 27, 2009)

> I hope they made a simple mistake,


IMO, the problem is not the seller, but the issue is the way that the eBay billing screen calculates the total. This has happened to me more than a few times, but it isn't difficult to resolve. Click on the link "Contact Seller" and explain (be nice) that you agreed to pay $165.00 to have the item delivered to you. Also let them know that the billing screen shows the incorrect amount of $208.65. Ask them to send an invoice for $165.00 so you can immediately pay for the purchase.

Usually, they send the invoice for the corrected amount, you pay, it's done. If not, there's always Plan B, but no sense even discussing that until you contact the seller & ask for the corrected invoice.

Also, what's the item number?


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## gadget_lover (Feb 27, 2009)

*Re: What BUMs*



StrikerDown said:


> Here is what I agreed to last night:
> 
> "Hi: Sorry for the delay. We would accept $165.00 and we will include the shipping and handling."



You can easily take that sentence and decide that it is indeterminate. 

1) We would accept $165.00 and we will include the shipping and handling... in that price.

2) We would accept $165.00 and we will include the shipping and handling... when we send you the bill so you don't have to calculate it.


Did I even mention that I hate vague phases on contracts?  HR people hate me because I insist that they fix flaws like that in the employment contracts that I sign.

Daniel


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## StrikerDown (Feb 27, 2009)

It is not vague if you read the previous emails where I offered $125 plus shipping as posted in the computer and they responded stating that "that shipping sounded high what is your location/Zip code so I can calculate the shipping". then they follow up with the above offer. of 165.00 which is what I offered plus a reasonable amount for shipping.

After questioning the invoice their response was they made a mistake and the real amount was on the invoice and they would have "no profit" if they sold it for the amount agreed to in our contract. 

Sorry for venting on you guys I just wanted to relate another story of a merchant who for a few dollars (and only a few) is willing to risk his reputation.

I am in business (until the economy kills me) and I have employees who bid on jobs and on a rare occasion they make a mistake in the pricing. As long as it is not due to a misrepresentation by the customer I will eat it. It is just the right way to conduct business. An offer and an acceptance is a contract! I live by my word and I expect those I do business with to do the same. It's not always tasty but sometimes you just eat it!

I am off to Maui first thing on Monday for a few days so I'm putting this out to pasture. I hope you guys enjoy my vacation!

If I hear hoards of screaming women on the beach I will try to get a picture of Don for you all!

PS: Barry I was nice and did almost exactly as you advised.


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## Anglepoise (Feb 27, 2009)

*Re: What BUMs*



gadget_lover said:


> You can easily take that sentence and decide that it is indeterminate.
> 
> 1) We would accept $165.00 and we will include the shipping and handling... in that price.
> 
> ...




+1

This statement can be taken both ways and should have been clarified earlier in the process. It might have been worded to confuse or it might be the sellers normal way of writing.


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## wquiles (Feb 27, 2009)

gadget_lover said:


> Just in case there are other lurkers who are drooling.... Paypal sent!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Daniel,

Here is what you will be getting. If you note, everything still has the protective coat, and only the RT and the 4 screws have seen light outside the packing plastic bags 






Will


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## gadget_lover (Feb 28, 2009)

Wait A SECOND! The screws have been USED????!!!! What the gosh darn kind of deal are you trying to pull????? 


Shhesh.... Selling used stuff that's actually been used. What's next?


Wait a second. I figure that's $40 a screw. That's not a bad price for a screw, is it?

 That looks real nice. Bot everyone is so conscientious about a sale. 

I've not played with indexing plates before, so I look forward to being able to study it in action. Sometimes reading the procedures are not enough, but walking through them works.

Looking forward to the learning experience.

Daniel


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## gadget_lover (Feb 28, 2009)

So I'm cruising through YouTube looking for video samples with sound to test my soundcard setup and what do I find?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHTXaU7GZC0

Shows the use of a dividing plate to accurately cut gears. Nicely done. The sector arms now make sense!

Daniel


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## wquiles (Feb 28, 2009)

gadget_lover said:


> Wait A SECOND! The screws have been USED????!!!! What the gosh darn kind of deal are you trying to pull?????
> 
> 
> Shhesh.... Selling used stuff that's actually been used. What's next?



Well, I will try next time not to use the screws :devil:

By the way, thanks for the link to the video - that was a good learning experience for me as well 

Will


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## wquiles (Feb 28, 2009)

By the way Daniel, your package left today 

Will


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## gadget_lover (Feb 28, 2009)

Thanks WIll.

I can hardly wait to get it. I've already laid out the plate that will clamp my 3 jaw chuck to it. A DRO doing bolt circles makes that SOooooo easy. 

Now the waiting game starts.
tick
tock
tick
tock

Daniel


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## wquiles (Mar 5, 2009)

When I shipped you the RT, UPS expected delivery by tomorrow Friday :devil:

Will


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## gadget_lover (Mar 5, 2009)

Yeah, I've been watching the UPS site. It made it to San Pablo today, so it should be here tomorrow.

Which is a good thing. I'm working from home tomorrow.  I get to see the brown Santa pull up out front. 


Daniel (like a kid outside a candy store)


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## gadget_lover (Mar 7, 2009)

Will's 6 inch rotary table is in it's new home. It looks big on my coffee table. It looks small next to the vise on my Mill's table. That is NOT a complaint, since the vise is 50 pounds.

BTW, if anyone needs packaging instruction, contact Will. The box was marked "keep cold, between -25 and 30 degrees" (or something close to that) and when I opened it I found what appeared to be a solid Styrofoam cube. It turns out will re-used a refrigerated food transport carton. The table was so well packed that I doubt it shifted .001 inch during shipping. 

Like most rotabs, the handwheel is supposed to overhang the front edge of the table. Unfortunately, that's where I mounted the scale for the DRO. I'll have to make a spacer to give the handwheel clearance.

Pictures at 11? Only if I clean up the garage first!

Daniel


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## StrikerDown (Mar 7, 2009)

Daniel,

Greetings from Paradise!

I'm really interested in your take on this RT. I have tried to get a couple different RT's on eBay, no luck yet. Of course it is hard shopping on the. Cell phone!

Anxiously waiting. ;-)


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## gadget_lover (Mar 7, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> Daniel,
> 
> Greetings from Paradise!
> 
> ...



It is vitally important that you get a rotary table that fits your mill. as you can see in the first picture, the mill is almost too big for the rotab he bought. 
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=33682


Sorry. Could not resist. 

Daniel


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## wquiles (Mar 7, 2009)

gadget_lover said:


> BTW, if anyone needs packaging instruction, contact Will. The box was marked "keep cold, between -25 and 30 degrees" (or something close to that) and when I opened it I found what appeared to be a solid Styrofoam cube. It turns out will re-used a refrigerated food transport carton. The table was so well packed that I doubt it shifted .001 inch during shipping.



I wanted to make sure it got there in great shape, but maybe I went a "tad" too far :devil:

Will


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