# Zebralight H600/H604/H600F MKIV headlamp



## TCY

Pre-order now available. I was told by ZL staff that the H600Fd/c variant would not be available for another few month, but apparently they've decided to hit us with a little Halloween surprise.. ZL or trick:devil:


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## MX421

I saw that yesterday and was pretty hyped about having a Hi-CRI flooder,. Their specs are the same for both the H604c & H604d though (that can't be right) and they don't have the runtimes yet. I wonder how bright the H604c is, that'd be the one I'd want.


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## TCY

ZL labels the H604c to have a maximum brightness of 1616 lumens. Don't know about runtimes yet but based on ZL's track record I expect it to be more than solid.

Some further intel:
H52/H53's pocket clip is compatible. 
MKIV housing does not have any visual updates. A few internal modifications, not our concern.
"_A hint of green is possible in a 3-step 5000K "Fd“ light, but very rare in a 3-step 4000K "Fc" light."_


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## twistedraven

It's a little less likely for a 3-step 4000k light to have green, but still very likely. Take a look at Cree's easywhite binning chart for the 50.2.








As you can see, the 3-step binning process for a 5000k light means that you are pretty much guaranteed to get a light with a slight green-tint bias. A 4000k 3-step binning process means you will have a rare chance of getting a light with a slight magenta bias. 

However, you can slap on a green-minus filter to shed some of that green off the light's spectral output and coincidentally raise the CRI and R9 reproduction of the light. It's the same trick CREE uses for their high CRI home LED bulbs. I'm pretty sure my old H600FD MK3 leans on the green side, but when I slap on a pink filter or pink highlighter, it becomes an incredible tinted light.

I've pre-ordered three H600FC MK4s btw, and am only keeping one.


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## dizpark

My first post here!

I contacted Zebralight specifically about differences between H600w MkIII and Mk IV. This is what they said: The Mk IV version is slightly brighter at max output, and comes with the new User Interface that allows the user to program 6 modes to any brightness levels he/she wants. Runtimes and battery protection will be exactly the same.

I have never used H600W MK III, (but was about to buy one), so I really do not know if the new user interface is a big deal.


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## TCY

Thanks, I'm aware how Cree binning works. For 4000K 3-step to be noticeably green or even disturbingly green, the tint has to land on the rear end of 5B4 and 5C1 which is very unlikely, hence ZL's claim of 4000K only having a very rare chance of being green. 5000K is basically a lost cause... however my SC600Fd Plus only has a very light hint of lemon and that's acceptable for me. ZL staff told me to leave a note with the order asking for a good tinted sample and they'll "try our best", I trust them on their tint picking ability so I only ordered one H600Fc. Tint lottery time:thumbsup:


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## twistedraven

I consider anything above the BBL to be green-biased and anything below to be magenta biased. It is true that the lower you go in CCT, the more yellow to orange the green bias becomes, and spectral charts from emitters will confirm that as well. It still isn't a good look to me though, however.

I'm going to pick the least greenish H600FC MK4 and then put a filter on it from there.


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## TCY

You might get one with no green at all, happened with my H53Fc. Just pleasant creamy yellow:twothumbs


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## Tachead

twistedraven said:


> It's a little less likely for a 3-step 4000k light to have green, but still very likely. Take a look at Cree's easywhite binning chart for the 50.2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, the 3-step binning process for a 5000k light means that you are pretty much guaranteed to get a light with a slight green-tint bias. A 4000k 3-step binning process means you will have a rare chance of getting a light with a slight magenta bias.
> 
> However, you can slap on a green-minus filter to shed some of that green off the light's spectral output and coincidentally raise the CRI and R9 reproduction of the light. It's the same trick CREE uses for their high CRI home LED bulbs. I'm pretty sure my old H600FD MK3 leans on the green side, but when I slap on a pink filter or pink highlighter, it becomes an incredible tinted light.
> 
> *I've pre-ordered three H600FC MK4s btw, and am only keeping one.*



That's the kind of thing that could likely make ZL drop their generous return policy one day.


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## TCY

dizpark said:


> My first post here!
> 
> I contacted Zebralight specifically about differences between H600w MkIII and Mk IV. This is what they said: The Mk IV version is slightly brighter at max output, and comes with the new User Interface that allows the user to program 6 modes to any brightness levels he/she wants. Runtimes and battery protection will be exactly the same.
> 
> I have never used H600W MK III, (but was about to buy one), so I really do not know if the new user interface is a big deal.



Welcome to CPF! 

Bottom line: You might not need it and find the stock UI perfect for you applications, but at least it's nice to have it on board. Lots of fellow CPFers love the new programmable UI, me included. It basically tailors the UI to exactly how you want it to be. 

About runtime and output: ZL is mostly just using more efficient drivers in their MKIV lights on the XHP35 variants. For the high CRI d/c flavours, output almost doubled and I expect there would be a slight increase in runtime as the old XM-L2 easywhite is not exactly energy efficient compared to the MKIV's XHP50.2.


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## twistedraven

Tachead said:


> That's the kind of thing that could likely make ZL drop their generous return policy one day.



No I'll be selling the other two here at CPF.


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## Tachead

twistedraven said:


> No I'll be selling the other two here at CPF.


Oh ok, good idea. I really wish ZL would just offer a premium tint upgrade. I would gladly pay an added charge for a hand picked light with a tint right on the BBL. I bet some others including yourself would too. Hopefully they will consider it one day.


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## TCY

I would pay an extra $20 or even $30 for a ZL with 1-step LED. Tint variation of 1 step LED is so finite that it cannot be detected by naked eye. Too bad no one is doing it.


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## MX421

TCY said:


> ZL labels the H604c to have a maximum brightness of 1616 lumens. Don't know about runtimes yet but based on ZL's track record I expect it to be more than solid.



I'd believe it if both the H604c&d didn't have the same brightness specs. Since they also don't have the runtimes, i'd conservatively suspect they put the H604d specs in and duplicated them and the H604c would run a small percentage less than that due to the lower tint levels.


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## TCY

MX421 said:


> I'd believe it if both the H604c&d didn't have the same brightness specs. Since they also don't have the runtimes, i'd conservatively suspect they put the H604d specs in and duplicated them and the H604c would run a small percentage less than that due to the lower tint levels.



Yes, based on ZL's history the c version should have ~10% less output than its d equivalent, but given the Fd/c's 1568 lumens output the 604d/c 1616 lumens is also believable for me. Let's see how ZL adjusts that spread sheet in the near future.


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## MX421

TCY said:


> Yes, based on ZL's history the c version should have ~10% less output than its d equivalent, but given the Fd/c's 1568 lumens output the 604d/c 1616 lumens is also believable for me. Let's see how ZL adjusts that spread sheet in the near future.



Yeah i noticed the same lumens count on the Fc/d series as well (and the run times again missing) and thought the same thing there (even though the lumen level is lower i presume through loss via the frosted lens). I personally am not interested in the frosted lens light after that post where someone had multiple frosted Zebra lens crack on him. Each their own though. Looking forward to the H604c and the H600w Mk IV (though the latter can wait for me)


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## TCY

MX421 said:


> Yeah i noticed the same lumens count on the Fc/d series as well (and the run times again missing) and thought the same thing there (even though the lumen level is lower i presume through loss via the frosted lens). I personally am not interested in the frosted lens light after that post where someone had multiple frosted Zebra lens crack on him. Each their own though. Looking forward to the H604c and the H600w Mk IV (though the latter can wait for me)



IIRC the cracked lens problem was with a certain batch of lens supplied by Corning? After that thread no one's frosted lens cracked anyway. My H53Fc and SC600Fd III Plus are doing well without a single problem. I'm a flood guy so I got the H600Fc MKIV this time.


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## Tachead

MX421 said:


> Yeah i noticed the same lumens count on the Fc/d series as well (and the run times again missing) and thought the same thing there (even though the lumen level is lower i presume through loss via the frosted lens). I personally am not interested in the frosted lens light after that post where someone had multiple frosted Zebra lens crack on him. Each their own though. Looking forward to the H604c and the H600w Mk IV (though the latter can wait for me)





TCY said:


> IIRC the cracked lens problem was with a certain batch of lens supplied by Corning? After that thread no one's frosted lens cracked anyway. My H53Fc and SC600Fd III Plus are doing well without a single problem. I'm a flood guy so I got the H600Fc MKIV this time.



No problems on my frosted lens lights either(H600Fd&c MKIII) and I have been using them for about 2 years doing everything from backcountry camping and rock climbing to mechanics and carpentry(I do take care of my stuff though and don't abuse it). As said, I believe they just had an issue with a batch of the old type of glass they used to use. The newest frosted lenses(late 2015+) are Corning Gorilla Glass 3(the same glass used for the screens on many cell phones) which is one of the strongest and most scratch resistant varieties available. Plus, ZL will replace any lens if you do happen to break one. In my opinion, the frosted lens ZL headlamp models offer the best beam type for general use by far. You will be missing out if you don't try one imo MX421.


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## MX421

Tachead said:


> No problems on my frosted lens lights either(H600Fd&c MKIII) and I have been using them for about 2 years doing everything from backcountry camping and rock climbing to mechanics and carpentry(I do take care of my stuff though and don't abuse it). As said, I believe they just had an issue with a batch of the old type of glass they used to use. The newest frosted lenses(late 2015+) are Corning Gorilla Glass 3(the same glass used for the screens on many cell phones) which is one of the strongest and most scratch resistant varieties available. Plus, ZL will replace any lens if you do happen to break one. In my opinion, the frosted lens ZL headlamp models offer the best beam type for general use by far. You will be missing out if you don't try one imo MX421.



I have a H602w for floody stuff, but i do see the merits of the semi-floody 'F' lens, thats what my only working Armytek Wizard has essentially and its okay to have the concentration of light in the middle with the smooth transition to the spill. Still, cracked lens aside, if i want flood, my preference so far is the "mule" H602w (or now the H604c it appears), otherwise, I'd get a H600 and put a diffuser on the lens (the scotch tape thing works pretty well) for more focussed "flood" lighting. That way i have two different beam profiles with one light.


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## Tachead

MX421 said:


> I have a H602w for floody stuff, but i do see the merits of the semi-floody 'F' lens, thats what my only working Armytek Wizard has essentially and its okay to have the concentration of light in the middle with the smooth transition to the spill. Still, cracked lens aside, if i want flood, my preference so far is the "mule" H602w (or now the H604c it appears), otherwise, I'd get a H600 and put a diffuser on the lens (the scotch tape thing works pretty well) for more focussed lighting. That way i have two different beam profiles with one light.



Just to keep ZL's terminology straight: the ZL mule models(ie:H604) are called "Flood", the "F" models are called "Floody", and the normal H models are called "Spot/Spill". 

I have an Armytek too but, its beam is a bit different then the ZL floody models. It has a tighter beam(likely due to the more recessed optic) that is more even with no hotspot. The ZL Floody models have a broader beam(wider) with more of a highly diffused hotspot that blends into the spill. They tend to throw a bit further then the AT's and offer a wider more useful spill imo.

Personally, I find the ZL Flood models have the least useful beam profile overall of the four(3xZL/1xAT) and are only really suited to up close tasks like reading, dishes, in tent chores etc(although they excel at these tasks). 

The Spot/Spill models are ok but, I find they are not good for up close tasks due to the tight hotspot and narrower overall beam profile and give a bit of a bouncing ball effect when walking, running, hiking. 

I have tried the diffuser tape trick but, find it annoying and not very practical to switch back and forth out in the field. I prefer to just pick the right light for the task(most of the time this is Floody for me).

What I find works great now for most uses is a combination of a ZL Floody and a throwy flashlight in case I need to see something real far away(fairly rare as the H600F's have a fair amount of throw on H1). Then for reading or general in the tent tasks, I like the Flood models best(although the Floody models still work pretty well for these tasks). I just ordered a H502c L2 as I find the 18650 models have more capacity/output then needed and are too bulky for these up close tasks. 

Everyone uses their lights for different things though and this is highly subjective of course. I just figured I would post my experience with these headlamps in case it is helpful:thumbsup:.


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## MX421

Tachead said:


> Just to keep ZL's terminology straight: the ZL mule models(ie:H604) are called "Flood", the "F" models are called "Floody", and the normal H models are called "Spot/Spill".
> 
> I have an Armytek too but, its beam is a bit different then the ZL floody models. It has a tighter beam(likely due to the more recessed optic) that is more even with no hotspot. The ZL Floody models have a broader beam(wider) with more of a highly diffused hotspot that blends into the spill. They tend to throw a bit further then the AT's and offer a wider more useful spill imo.
> 
> Personally, I find the ZL Flood models have the least useful beam profile overall of the four(3xZL/1xAT) and are only really suited to up close tasks like reading, dishes, in tent chores etc(although they excel at these tasks).
> 
> The Spot/Spill models are ok but, I find they are not good for up close tasks due to the tight hotspot and narrower overall beam profile and give a bit of a bouncing ball effect when walking, running, hiking.
> 
> I have tried the diffuser tape trick but, find it annoying and not very practical to switch back and forth out in the field. I prefer to just pick the right light for the task(most of the time this is Floody for me).
> 
> What I find works great now for most uses is a combination of a ZL Floody and a throwy flashlight in case I need to see something real far away(fairly rare as the H600F's have a fair amount of throw on H1). Then for reading or general in the tent tasks, I like the Flood models best(although the Floody models still work pretty well for these tasks). I just ordered a H502c L2 as I find the 18650 models have more capacity/output then needed and are too bulky for these up close tasks.
> 
> Everyone uses their lights for different things though and this is highly subjective of course. I just figured I would post my experience with these headlamps in case it is helpful:thumbsup:.


My AT has a bit more concentration in the center and its not even. At least not like the H602w. I think its less spill because its a TIR lens under it, but i'm not certain on that.

As you say, to each their own. Like you, i use a combination when i am out in the dark yard working. I'll stick the H600w on my head for throw and keep my H602w around my neck for flood. The H602w flood helps to see where you are walking and anything nearby. The H600w helps you see where you need to go or if you need to check anything, all hands free. For getting firewood or anything else where the main hands free is required on the actual work and not the transit , the H602w is hung around my neck and used to do the task and a handheld if used for the "throw" requirement. At my cabin, usually an extreme throw light is required as none of the Zebras can reach those distances to the water.

When i had to go into container to check equipment, the H602w excelled in lighting the whole container. It was like having a lightbulb in your pocket. I've been trying to see if the AA lights are sufficient for my EDC purposes based on the size. The AA versions are good for reading and close up stuff, but i prefer the 18650 lights for any serious tasks. I guess i'm now spoiled with the higher output (or longer runtimes). 

Good to know that the AT and the H600F have different profiles. May check out one if a sale comes up as you suggest. I'm always up for trying something new. Learn something new every day.

Back to the cracking issue I thought i remember it not being final that it was just one batch of lights that had the cracking issue. I figure I'd wait. However, being that Zebralight is better on servicing their lights than other manufacturers, i guess its not that big of a gamble.


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## Tachead

MX421 said:


> My AT has a bit more concentration in the center and its not even. At least not like the H602w. I think its less spill because its a TIR lens under it, but i'm not certain on that.
> 
> As you say, to each their own. Like you, i use a combination when i am out in the dark yard working. I'll stick the H600w on my head for throw and keep my H602w around my neck for flood. The H602w flood helps to see where you are walking and anything nearby. The H600w helps you see where you need to go or if you need to check anything, all hands free. For getting firewood or anything else where the main hands free is required on the transit and not actual work, the H602w is hung around my neck and used to do the task and a handheld if used for the "throw" requirement. At my cabin, usually an extreme throw light is required as none of the Zebras can reach those distances to the water.
> 
> When i had to go into container to check equipment, the H602w excelled in lighting the whole container. It was like having a lightbulb in your pocket. I've been trying to see if the AA lights are sufficient for my EDC purposes based on the size. The AA versions are good for reading and close up stuff, but i prefer the 18650 lights for any serious tasks. I guess i'm now spoiled with the higher output (or longer runtimes).
> 
> Good to know that the AT and the H600F have different profiles. May check out one if a sale comes up as you suggest. I'm always up for trying something new. Learn something new every day.
> 
> Back to the cracking issue I thought i remember it not being final that it was just one batch of lights that had the cracking issue. I figure I'd wait. However, being that Zebralight is better on servicing their lights than other manufacturers, i guess its not that big of a gamble.



That sounds like a good setup.

Yeah, the Flood models can be great for confined areas for sure.

Just to let you know, there are two different beam profiles for ZL's floody models depending on when they were made. Sometime in 2015 the switched to a different brand of frosted glass and that changed the beam profile quite a bit as well as increased the durability. Here is a pic and some gifs(courtesy of Stephano) to help show you the difference.






















This is also the reason for the glass being stronger on new ZL's. All the new models(post 2015) use Corning Gorilla Glass 3. Frosted lenses will always be a bit less durable due to the frosting process but, I would guess that due to the glass ZL uses, their frosted lenses are likely stronger then most other companies normal glass. Gorilla Glass is one of the strongest and most scratch resistant glasses available. That is why it is used for cell phone screens like I said earlier.

Just be careful with your lights and you shouldn't have a problem. If you do hit one hard enough to break the frosted lens, it likely would have broke the regular glass one too. And, like you said, if you do unfortunately break one, ZL will fix it and the biggest inconvenience will be going without it for a while while it is warrantied. I wouldn't sweat it:thumbsup:.


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## Tachead

Oops, double post.


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## MX421

Hmm,

looking on the site i see allot of the older models on sale. I wonder if an H600Fw bought direct would be the new beam?

Thinking like that will blow my budget...


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## likethevegetable

I'm on the fence about the H600Fc Mk IV...

I have the H53c as an EDC and sole backcountry camping light. At 171lm I find it has sufficient throw for what I need, and I appreciate the beam pattern for anything just a few meters ahead. Whenever I need flood I roll a latex finger cot (linked below) over the light and it works as an awesome diffuser that is very comparable to scotch tape and re-usable. I find that the finger cot diffuses the hotspot well AND widens the beam to almost my entire field of view. I suspect the latex over an F model would essentially turn it into a mule.

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01AF018CI/



*Some questions:*


-Can anyone comment on how much less throw I should expect with an F-model? For example, to achieve similar throw to the regular model, how many more lumens would I need to output? (I suppose this could be calculated with candela measurements at the center, right?). Stefano's comparison photos are excellent but real life commentary would be helpful.


-How is the gradient of intensity from the center of the beam to the edges on the F model? Is the beam very uniform throughout the entire 90°, or is there a noticeable transition (more throw)? I'm slightly concerned about a black hole in the middle of view when looking at distant objects.


-I like my tint with my H53c that uses an XP-L2. Should I expect a similar one for the XHP50.2?


I'm very, very close to trying out my first floody ZL. Part of me wishes a spot/spill combo was available so i could use my diffuser trick, but on the other hand it seems like the floody pattern is good all around without the need to mess around with sub-optimal DIY filters.


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## TCY

The F model throw with its sheer power, my 1500lm SC600Fd III Plus can go up to maybe 50 meters but that's it. ZL never publishes lux/candela so there's no official data to fiddle with.

The transition is very smooth, you need to actively search for it to see but there is still a nice, brighter hotspot. No donut hole whatsoever. 

Tint wise they should be very close if not identical, but Cree does allow some variation so there is a bit of lottery involved. Generally the 4000K CCT within 3/2 step MacAdam ellipse (which ZL uses in their c model) should have the smallest chance of getting a "bad" tint so I wouldn't worry about it.

Try it out, there's a good chance you'll fall in love with it. I got my SC600Fd Plus as my first floody light, I liked it so much I got the H53Fc as soon as it became available and now I'm getting the H600Fc.


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## terjee

There’s another thing to consider as well. If you go floody, you’d probably want a few more lumens as well, especially outdoors. Using an 18650 instead of AA would almost certainly give you increased runtime, rather than decreased like a floody with AA might be.


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## Tachead

MX421 said:


> Hmm,
> 
> looking on the site i see allot of the older models on sale. I wonder if an H600Fw bought direct would be the new beam?
> 
> Thinking like that will blow my budget...



The H600Fw MKIII would for sure be the new lens, the H600Fw MKII might be but, I am not sure. If you email ZL they will let you know though, I'm sure.


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## eh4

terjee said:


> There’s another thing to consider as well. If you go floody, you’d probably want a few more lumens as well, especially outdoors. Using an 18650 instead of AA would almost certainly give you increased runtime, rather than decreased like a floody with AA might be.



Floody with an 18650 battery is really nice, the Clear optic throws a bit further, or alternately as far with less battery discharge, but if you're only getting one, especially if it's a headlamp - seriously consider the H600F models, or get the regular H600 and invest in a little of the diffusing tape. 
If I could only have one I'd have to go with the clear lens for more versatility, but the floody is a real pleasure to use, as a headlamp kinda like flood but with a very significant punch in the middle, right where you need the extra lumens... pure flood always seems to have plenty of peripheral illumination, but a dim zone where you're looking. 

If the flood is a half sphere of light, then the floody is an elongated egg shape of light, the regular clear reflector being something more typical, a small and blobby thrower on your head, a dancing basketball of light in front of you, with generous spill. 

-AA floody is a great close range light, much like having a hand held oven range light, but its limited power makes it a more useful indoor and work light, imo.


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## likethevegetable

Well, I just pulled the trigger on the H600Fc Mk IV! Super excited - this will be my first 18650 ZL - really looking forward to checking out the PID control.

I also snagged some NCR18650GAs from Illumn - hopefully they make it to Canada!


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## eh4

Nice, that's the model I'd like to get next.


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## mobi

I've participated in this forum on and off for years. But I always felt like an interloper. I'm not really a flashaholic. Or so I thought. True. I've bought many Zebralight headlamps over the years. And I use and/or wear a Zebralight all day long. But I almost exclusively use Zebralights. If I collected them, like Stefano, then, yes, I'd be a flashaholic. But my current herd of two Zebras hardly qualifies me to even be a flashaholic wannabe.

That all changed today. I happened to visit the Zebralight website and encountered the H604 series. I'm on a low budget. But what flashed, unbidden, in my mind was, "Can I start a crowdfunding page to raise money for a new headlamp?" I immediately quashed the thought. Since then, I've been left with a haunting feeling.

Gentlemen. I present to you the news that you probably suspected all along. I'm a flashaholic.


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## MX421

mobi said:


> That all changed today. I happened to visit the Zebralight website and encountered the H604 series. I'm on a low budget. But what flashed, unbidden, in my mind was, "Can I start a crowdfunding page to raise money for a new headlamp?" I immediately quashed the thought. Since then, I've been left with a haunting feeling.
> 
> Gentlemen. I present to you the news that you probably suspected all along. I'm a flashaholic.



Thats the light that started me down the headlamp route. I personally love the pure flood. I've abandoned the headstrap and now wear it around my neck. Sometimes i forget i have it on and reach to turn off the light switch when i leave a room...


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## mobi

MX421 said:


> Thats the light that started me down the headlamp route. I personally love the pure flood. I've abandoned the headstrap and now wear it around my neck. Sometimes i forget i have it on and reach to turn off the light switch when i leave a room...



With smart homes and smarter headlamps -- the new Zebras have multiple new programmable modes -- the light switch may go the way of the gas lamp.

"Hey, Dad, what's a light switch?"

"Why, Son, back in the day you had lights which hung from the ceiling!"


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## Petrsv

Hi all. First post here. So have been poking around here for a bit and I have a quick question but for the life of me I cant figure out the difference between the 604 and the 600 mk4 ?


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## Keitho

Ha, sounds logical to me, the next round of h models will definitely have AI, and the round after that will definitely be self aware!


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## TCY

Petrsv said:


> Hi all. First post here. So have been poking around here for a bit and I have a quick question but for the life of me I cant figure out the difference between the 604 and the 600 mk4 ?



600 MKIV = reflector + clear lens, you get the typical spot + spill beam profile.
600F MKIV = reflector + frosted lens, typical beam profile but blurred/smoothed out.
604 = no reflector + clear lens, 100% uniform spill with no spot. a "Mule".

Welcome to CPF!


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## MX421

Okay, i keep checking back on their site to see if they've completed their obviously flawed spec sheet on the H604 models. As yet, no go on any changes, but i was again comparing the H604c and the H604w specs and came across more verification that things are off. Typically, the non HiCRI versions are brighter than the HiCRI versions, yet the site still has the H604c (and H604d) listed as *1616* while the H604w is listed as *1400* (Reversed!). For comparison, the H603w is listed at 1126 and the H603c listed at 830 (H603d at 900). 

With no discount for preordering like they did on the H53c i got (I took a leap of faith there), I'd like to know what I'm getting before i pre-order. I don't think the runtimes will significantly change fom previous versions at the same H, M & L levels.


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## ingokl

The H604c (and H604d) use a different LED (XHP50.2) than the H604w (XHP35). Therefore the given data makes sense as the XHP50.2 can be driven much harder (up to 18Watt) than the XHP35 (limited to about 13 Watt).


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## typevii

I’m still worried about the low modes. I found the 0.01 lumen on my H602w was perfect as a moonlight mode. However my SC600fd III plus has a lowest low of 0.18 which is too bright. Really hoping Zebralight keep a true moonlight ultra low for the new 604c. Its kind of a dealbreaker for me. I have plenty of super bright flashlights, but not so many with a really low moonlight as well. Still looking for that one flashlght to do it all.


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## mobi

That's an interesting point.

I have a Zebralight with .05 Lm and .01 settings.

I use parafilm to shape Zebralight beams. The parafilm also absorbs some of the emitted light. I took some parafilm and folded it over twice making a four-layer thick piece and placed it on the glass. With the light on the .05 setting, it more or less reduced the light to a .01 setting. I made the comparison by switching the light back and forth from .01 to .05 with the film on the glass at .05.

Some of the newer lights have .08 as the lowest setting. The most likely use for me of the lowest setting would be putting it on that setting when I remove the light to lie down, and wanting to locate the light in pitch dark, and use it to navigate in the pitch dark with dark adapted eyes. That would mean keeping the light on the low setting for several hours straight. In that scenario, attaching parafilm to the light to get the .01 Lm effect would be a minimal task.

On the other hand, if the super-low moonbeam mode is going to be needed quickly, this approach would not be much of a fix.


----------



## eh4

I sat out of getting a MK III version last year, and got another MK II on discount instead, but I'm about sold on the Fc MK IV. 
I generally keep the low sub-mode in the second lowest setting, but the lowest .01 lumen is useful sometimes. 
I think they're leap frogging along, the new emitters are maybe too powerful and efficient to go as low with the current driver, hopefully super low will come back as the drivers improve even more.
In the mean time, there's perfectly good discounted old stock.


----------



## ingokl

The driver is not the 'problem'. ZL consciously decided to raise the available minimum settings for a more balanced stepping between all levels. For the SC64c they already lowered the lowest low from 0.12 to 0.05 lumen as a response to moaning CPF members .


----------



## limesalt

TCY said:


> Welcome to CPF!
> 
> Bottom line: You might not need it and find the stock UI perfect for you applications, but at least it's nice to have it on board. Lots of fellow CPFers love the new programmable UI, me included. It basically tailors the UI to exactly how you want it to be.



Oh my God, does this mean that I can set the "H" group (i.e. 1 click from off) to instead be an M or L level group??? That is to say: no more blinding 1,000+ lumen pre-flash when I'm just trying to double click from off into a 65 lumen medium mode? :laughing: Yeah, I think that could be useful  That UI quirk has been my ONE gripe about Zebralights, and if they really fixed that and made it truly, fully programmable for all the L/M/H groups then WOW, that is awesome! I sold my SC600 because I was tired of it always turning on in FULL BLAST mode, but otherwise I was completely in love with everything else about it - the ergonomics, form factor, runtime, beam quality, etc. was all perfect, absolutely perfect. Time to reup!



MX421 said:


> Thats the light that started me down the headlamp route. I personally love the pure flood. I've abandoned the headstrap and now wear it around my neck. Sometimes i forget i have it on and reach to turn off the light switch when i leave a room...



Yeah, I love the pure flood! I've owned normal beam and floody beam ZL headlamps, and settled on the pure flood H603d as my go-to for pretty much everything. My balance and orientation gets thrown off by the tunnel vision effect when I use a normal or even just a floody headlamp for extended periods of time, because of the constant head turning. I'm typically camping or off-roading when I use it, so high movement stuff like chopping wood, hiking through dense and uneven forest, rock scrambling, etc. all gets old real quick when you have no peripheral vision and have to swing your head around constantly to ascertain your surroundings. Up-close stuff like mechanical work is perfect for pure flood too. If I need a spotlight, that's what my handheld is for :twothumbs


----------



## TCY

limesalt said:


> Oh my God, does this mean that I can set the "H" group (i.e. 1 click from off) to instead be an M or L level group??? That is to say: no more blinding 1,000+ lumen pre-flash when I'm just trying to double click from off into a 65 lumen medium mode? :laughing: Yeah, I think that could be useful  That UI quirk has been my ONE gripe about Zebralights, and if they really fixed that and made it truly, fully programmable for all the L/M/H groups then WOW, that is awesome! I sold my SC600 because I was tired of it always turning on in FULL BLAST mode, but otherwise I was completely in love with everything else about it - the ergonomics, form factor, runtime, beam quality, etc. was all perfect, absolutely perfect. Time to reup!



Absolutely, AFAIK some CPFers have set the UI up exactly the way you intend to. You can even make it a single mode light (by making all 6 modes identical) if that's what you want it to be:thumbsup:


----------



## mobi

The following comment makes the case for allowing the strobe modes to be added to the programmable G modes on the new Zebralight series.

The Zebralight strobe is currently triggered by three clicks. Within the strobe mode, one of four strobes can be selected.

I'm guessing the inclusion of a 19 Hz mode was in order to make Zebralights "tactical". Confer the "Police Study of tactical use of Strobe". A link to that thread can be found on the "General Flashlight Forum - Threads of interest" sticky in the General Flashlight Discussion forum.

The police study concluded that an 18 - 20 Hz range was the ideal rate for a tactical strobe.

Another point the study brought out was that a tactical light has to be activated with one-click. This is because under stress it is a challenge to make the fine, precisely timed movements that are required to activate a strobe mode that is not accessible from one click. Furthermore, the loss of even a spilt second in a tactical situation can mean the loss of any advantage the strobe may have offered.

Thus, the Zebralight as currently configured is not tactical according to the study, since the user has to click three -- and only three -- times in quick succession to operate the 19 Hz strobe. And that is assuming the user has previously set the strobe to the 19 Hz mode; otherwise, the user has to double click up to three times to reach the 19 Hz mode.

Now, the new Zebralights allow us to program any of 12 light levels into the single click mode. However, the strobe modes are not able to be mapped into the single click mode.

Hopefully, in future models, it will be possible to program a 19 Hz strobe on Hi into the single click mode, bringing the Zebralight a step closer to being a truly tactical light.

One late night this past summer I used an H600Fd III to avert what I believe was an imminent attack on the house here.

Some nights before, my door had been egged because of a public stance I took on a local issue.

This particular night, the window to the room I was in was open and I happened to wake up to some suspicious activity. A car had driven by, and apparently someone in the car had been speaking and mentioned my name to another occupant. This is a quiet street and the voice had wafted in through the window alerting me.

The house was dark and I was wearing dark clothes. I went downstairs and cracked the front door open and stood in the gap. A car pulled up in front of the house and was idling there with the drivers window rolled down.

I think they failed to observe me in the doorway. I waited. Nothing was happening. A stand off. I pointed the light at the car, about forty feet away. Then I turned the Zebra on high for a moment, and turned it off. A moment later, I did the same. In the interim between flashes, the driver exclaimed in shock and amazement, "What the h--- was that?!" and zoomed away.

End of harassment.

This illustrates the versatility of a Zebralight. I think at this point I'm supposed to say something like, "Don't try this at home," in order to avoid liability.

Throwing caution to the wind, I would encourage others to try this if necessary.

To tie this comment all together, I think it would have been an even better outcome if that first click had been a 19 Hz strobe.


----------



## jeff.rybak

Great website - I have been lurking as a guest for years.
I have pre-ordered the new ZL H600Fc Mk4 XHP50's as well. We have been using ZL headlamps for several yrs and recommend them to our clients. The majority of our use is hunting type environment, especially traveling to and setting up waterfowl decoys spreads in the AM.

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, and I can start a new topic if need be, please let me know.
What battery would be best for these new 600Fc Mk4 XHP 50's?

Thank you - and again thank all you guys for such a great informative site!


----------



## Tachead

jeff.rybak said:


> Great website - I have been lurking as a guest for years.
> I have pre-ordered the new ZL H600Fc Mk4 XHP50's as well. We have been using ZL headlamps for several yrs and recommend them to our clients. The majority of our use is hunting type environment, especially traveling to and setting up waterfowl decoys spreads in the AM.
> 
> I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, and I can start a new topic if need be, please let me know.
> What battery would be best for these new 600Fc Mk4 XHP 50's?
> 
> Thank you - and again thank all you guys for such a great informative site!



Many batteries will work well with these headlamps but, for the longest runtimes when you need it I would go with the Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA, the LG INR18650MJ1, or the Samsung INR18650-35E. All of these are 3500mAh and good quality cells.


----------



## MX421

mobi said:


> The Zebralight strobe is currently triggered by three clicks. Within the strobe mode, one of four strobes can be selected.
> 
> I'm guessing the inclusion of a 19 Hz mode was in order to make Zebralights "tactical". Confer the "Police Study of tactical use of Strobe". A link to that thread can be found on the "General Flashlight Forum - Threads of interest" sticky in the General Flashlight Discussion forum.
> 
> The police study concluded that an 18 - 20 Hz range was the ideal rate for a tactical strobe.
> 
> Another point the study brought out was that a tactical light has to be activated with one-click. This is because under stress it is a challenge to make the fine, precisely timed movements that are required to activate a strobe mode that is not accessible from one click. Furthermore, the loss of even a spilt second in a tactical situation can mean the loss of any advantage the strobe may have offered.
> 
> Now, the new Zebralights allow us to program any of 12 light levels into the single click mode. However, the strobe modes are not able to be mapped into the single click mode.
> 
> Hopefully, in future models, it will be possible to program a 19 Hz strobe on Hi into the single click mode, bringing the Zebralight a step closer to being a truly tactical light.



Don't get me wrong, i love my Zebralights, probably more than my tactical lights. However, the Zebralight, particularly a headlamp is not meant to be a tactical light. Perhaps if you handhold it you could make do in certain situations, but the advantage provided by the disorientation would be best served to exit the situation, especially if you are unarmed. 




mobi said:


> This illustrates the versatility of a Zebralight. I think at this point I'm supposed to say something like, "Don't try this at home," in order to avoid liability.
> 
> Throwing caution to the wind, I would encourage others to try this if necessary.
> 
> To tie this comment all together, I think it would have been an even better outcome if that first click had been a 19 Hz strobe.



I would disagree on the better outcome. I believe similar if not the same studies also found that the strobe could antagonize someone to further action. The only reason a strobe works is it tends to disorient a person, usually it is followed up with either a clear retreat or something to follow up on the temporary advantage gained. Here in Texas, you better have a gun to back such use of a light up. That also may have been why they ran, they didn't know what you had and you clearly had the tactical advantage at least at that point.

All that being said, i do believe the strobe is effective in certain situations. Walking out in a dark parking lot for instance would be a good place to use such a strobe. People wanting to take advantage would not prefer to attack someone who has a flashing strobe attracting attention from quite a distance.


Anyway, to get back on topic, i do like that there are two strobe settings now, the older strobe was way too fast to be effective.


----------



## mobi

All good points.

Agreed that retreat is the ultimate goal when armed only with photons.

Especially good point that a strobe might exacerbate a situation that could otherwise be defused.

I think it was my first Zebralight headlamp, many iterations ago of that classic light. I had it on strobe as I approached an intersection. The driver there signaled his annoyance, I think by flashing his high beam on and off. That sensitized me to observe better headiquette in the future.


----------



## eh4

I see Zebralights much more as Swiss army knife type lights than being any sort of "tactical" light... 
It is tempting to try to get them to serve all purposes, because they do so much so well, but if there's one thing that the interface isn't optimal for, it's high stress jitters with no second chances... yeah full programmability can solve that, but once you mess up and keep clicking to correct your mistake, you're off into modes and sub levels...
Besides, the lights are made to be light and strong, but within the realm of being cared for as tools rather than intentionally put into harm's way.


----------



## mobi

Well said.

So, let me do a 180° here. If Zebralights are not geared up for tactical applications, then what useful purpose is the 19 Hz mode? As MX421 posted, a Zebra strobe might best be used to draw attention. Is there a better rate than 19 Hz to do that? How about a varying rate strobe mode?

As long as Zebralight is revamping the whole UI by introducing more customizable options, why not rethink the strobe, too?


----------



## twistedraven

Dance parties on your house, obviously.


----------



## Keitho

mobi said:


> As long as Zebralight is revamping the whole UI by introducing more customizable options, why not rethink the strobe, too?



I'll second that...bike strobe, variable output would be awesome


----------



## mobi

Good idea. The Ultraviolet Band can play music. And we can all do the 3-Step Binning.


----------



## Keitho

And the 2300-lumen skadoo!


----------



## mobi

Keitho said:


> I'll second that...bike strobe, variable output would be awesome



I think you're on to something.

Here's a thought. Right now the G7 mode is fully programmable. Instead, make the G7 mode totally strobe.

It might work like this. A fixed rate is chosen, say 10 Hz. Other than that, the G7 mode would be like the G5 mode. That is, there would be a high, medium, and low level, with each level having an alternative sub-level. The upshot would be that the strobe could be set in any of 12 light strengths.

That would give you a variable strength fixed-rate strobe.


----------



## Rikt

Hi guys,
i am about to pre-order a zebralight headlight. Mainly for walking in the woods, both dense forrest but also open terrains.
It will be accompagneed with a medium size thrower to use once in a while. (Spotting animals, my own dog, safety, ..)

At first i was leaning towards the 604 mule, but then again i fear that the flood doesnt reach far enough so i have to use my thrower all the time.. and thats not what i am looking for.
maybe the H600f (c or w) will be better for my purpose.
Its hard to decide because my lack of experience.

Does anyone has some advice to help me out?
Thank you,
R.

Edit: user Terjee just gave me heads up that a mule easely blinds poeple. Probably thats the 'dealbreaker' for me. I guess ill go for the H600F


----------



## Tachead

Rikt said:


> Hi guys,
> i am about to pre-order a zebralight headlight. Mainly for walking in the woods, both dense forrest but also open terrains.
> It will be accompagneed with a medium size thrower to use once in a while. (Spotting animals, my own dog, safety, ..)
> 
> At first i was leaning towards the 604 mule, but then again i fear that the flood doesnt reach far enough so i have to use my thrower all the time.. and thats not what i am looking for.
> maybe the H600f (c or w) will be better for my purpose.
> Its hard to decide because my lack of experience.
> 
> Does anyone has some advice to help me out?
> Thank you,
> R.
> 
> Edit: user Terjee just gave me heads up that a mule easely blinds poeple. Probably thats the 'dealbreaker' for me. I guess ill go for the H600F



I would definitely go for the H600F. It is the best all around headlamp style from ZL imo. It has the perfect mix of flood and throw and is kind of the jack of all trades. I recommend the H600Fc as it has a nice warm CCT(4000K) which is perfect for late night use, use around the campfire, and it makes the greens and browns in the forest pop. It also has a much higher CRI then the "w" and a tighter binned emitter which should mean a more consistent tint from sample to sample and better colour rendition.


----------



## Rikt

I will be ordering the H600fc . Thank you for your good advice. :thumbsup:


----------



## Tachead

Rikt said:


> I will be ordering the H600fc . Thank you for your good advice. [emoji106]


No problem[emoji106]. Let us know how it is when it arrives. I have the H600Fc MKIII and love it.


----------



## Ace12

When will ZL have the run times of the new MK IV posted?


----------



## Tachead

Ace12 said:


> When will ZL have the run times of the new MK IV posted?


Hard to say. It isn't even slated to start shipping until Dec. 15 so probably not for a while. It will likely be better then the MKIII's though and they are already great so I wouldn't worry.


----------



## MX421

Ace12 said:


> When will ZL have the run times of the new MK IV posted?



I have been waiting on full specs before i order. I agree they will most likely be similar to the previous versions, but its the principle of them not having a full description thats holding me back. I had also previously thought the brightness values were also off, but i after looking at the specs again, I now that they are most likely the difference between XHP35 and XHP50.2.

Anyone else having issues with the post text skipping typed characters?


----------



## NPL

I have a question for Zebralight experts. The sc600 mk3 and mk4 appear to be using the same LED. Does that mean they are just driving the LED harder to push out more lumens? Where is the compromise?


----------



## Tachead

NPL said:


> I have a question for Zebralight experts. The sc600 mk3 and mk4 appear to be using the same LED. Does that mean they are just driving the LED harder to push out more lumens? Where is the compromise?



ZL is using some newer components and has increased the efficiency of the driver with the MKIV series. That is likely responsible for most of the increase in brightness but, I am not sure if they also boosted the current a bit. If they did it is still within Cree's specs for the emitter. ZL does not overdrive any of their emitters.


----------



## NPL

Tachead said:


> ZL is using some newer components and has increased the efficiency of the driver with the MKIV series. That is likely responsible for most of the increase in brightness but, I am not sure if they also boosted the current a bit. If they did it is still within Cree's specs for the emitter. ZL does not overdrive any of their emitters.


Looking forward to see how the runtimes compare once announced.


----------



## Tachead

NPL said:


> Looking forward to see how the runtimes compare once announced.



Yeah, we shall see. It shouldn't be too much longer till they post runtimes hopefully. Maybe a month? I know they are a bit behind so maybe a bit longer.


----------



## Ace12

What is the 3 step tint deviation? I don’t want any green tint. I’m actually thinking about going with the cooker 5700K. Right now I have the H600Fd MKiii which is 5000K, but I’m sure that’s on high. It’s warmer on medium. I don’t want anything warmer than my current light. I don’t think I would like the 4500K


----------



## noboneshotdog

Do any of you gentlemen know of a pocket clip that works great on the H600?


----------



## Tachead

noboneshotdog said:


> Do any of you gentlemen know of a pocket clip that works great on the H600?




The Nitecore MH20 clip fits perfectly. You can get one here(it is option B)...

http://www.nitecorestore.com/Pocket-Clip-for-Nitecore-P12-Flashlight-p/acc-clip-nitecore.htm


----------



## noboneshotdog

Tachead said:


> The Nitecore MH20 clip fits perfectly. You can get one here(it is option B)...
> 
> http://www.nitecorestore.com/Pocket-Clip-for-Nitecore-P12-Flashlight-p/acc-clip-nitecore.htm



Thank you SO much!


----------



## likethevegetable

ArmyTek Wizard Pro - you can buy them individually here: https://ru.nkon.nl

Here's what it looks like: https://goo.gl/images/DWvakz

I'm waiting for two in the mail.


----------



## noboneshotdog

likethevegetable said:


> ArmyTek Wizard Pro - you can buy them individually here: https://ru.nkon.nl
> 
> Here's what it looks like: https://goo.gl/images/DWvakz
> 
> I'm waiting for two in the mail.



I own a Armytek Wizard Pro. I will steal it off of it when I get the H600. Thanks guys!


----------



## NPL

Did anybody pre-order the h600fc mk?


----------



## Tachead

noboneshotdog said:


> I own a Armytek Wizard Pro. I will steal it off of it when I get the H600. Thanks guys!


The MH20 clip I linked fits much better imo. Aside from being black, it is like it was made for the H600 series. The Armytek clips I tried were slightly too wide for the grove in the H600.


----------



## Tachead

likethevegetable said:


> ArmyTek Wizard Pro - you can buy them individually here: https://ru.nkon.nl
> 
> Here's what it looks like: https://goo.gl/images/DWvakz
> 
> I'm waiting for two in the mail.


They don't fit very well to be honest. They are too wide to fit in the channel on the H600 and will need to be filed down a fair amount to fit right. The Nitecore MH20 clip I linked above fits perfectly, without modification, like it was made for the H600 series.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Tachead said:


> They don't fit very well to be honest. They are too wide to fit in the channel on the H600 and will need to be filed down a fair amount to fit right. The Nitecore MH20 clip I linked above fits perfectly, without modification, like it was made for the H600 series.



OK thanks. I am looking for a perfect fit. So this is good to know!


----------



## Tachead

noboneshotdog said:


> OK thanks. I am looking for a perfect fit. So this is good to know!




No problem:thumbsup:.


----------



## likethevegetable

Tachead said:


> The MH20 clip I linked fits much better imo. Aside from being black, it is like it was made for the H600 series. The Armytek clips I tried were slightly too wide for the grove in the H600.



Thanks for the heads up.. looks like I'm going to put in some work to get a perfect fit. No biggie, another little project I guess


----------



## Tachead

likethevegetable said:


> Thanks for the heads up.. looks like I'm going to put in some work to get a perfect fit. No biggie, another little project I guess


No problem👍.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Anyone know how many mm wide the tailcap is on the H600? I'm planning on buying a magnet for it for when it arrives.


----------



## Keitho

My H600Fw mkIII has a tailcap OD of 23.92mm, .942". I don't think it will change for the IV.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Keitho said:


> My H600Fw mkIII has a tailcap OD of 23.92mm, .942". I don't think it will change for the IV.



Thank you. I think a 24mm magnet should work nicely then.


----------



## eh4

noboneshotdog said:


> Anyone know how many mm wide the tailcap is on the H600? I'm planning on buying a magnet for it for when it arrives.



Someone in another thread posted about gluing a magnet to the outside of their tail cap, it was very strong that way. My question was how it would hold up to shocks, chipping etc...
It turns out that a conical steel piece will concentrate the field, I'm thinking that a circular disk of steel that's ground to a taper on the edge will balance out any lost field strength, while protecting the magnet. 
A shallow ring of any metal to protect the sides, and maybe overlap the tail cap, a dab of epoxy or silicone to get squeezed out between the magnet and the steel cover/ shield...


----------



## noboneshotdog

eh4 said:


> Someone in another thread posted about gluing a magnet to the outside of their tail cap, it was very strong that way. My question was how it would hold up to shocks, chipping etc...
> It turns out that a conical steel piece will concentrate the field, I'm thinking that a circular disk of steel that's ground to a taper on the edge will balance out any lost field strength, while protecting the magnet.
> A shallow ring of any metal to protect the sides, and maybe overlap the tail cap, a dab of epoxy or silicone to get squeezed out between the magnet and the steel cover/ shield...



That sounds cool. I actually posted a pic of my new SC600IV HI with 25mm x 3mm magnet attached in the "official ZL" thread. Well see how well it holds up. It's epoxied on. I will do something similar with the H600. If it breaks / chips I will likely just switch it out.

I like your idea about the protective covering though. If chipping becomes a problem this sounds like a good solution. Thanks!


----------



## Ace12

I’ll have to wait for the run times to be published before I commit to buying one. I’m most interested in the medium mode of 143lm. My current zebra MK iii medium mode is 62lm for 30 hours. If the new medium has the same runtime I’m sold.


----------



## likethevegetable

eh4 said:


> Someone in another thread posted about gluing a magnet to the outside of their tail cap, it was very strong that way. My question was how it would hold up to shocks, chipping etc...
> It turns out that a conical steel piece will concentrate the field, I'm thinking that a circular disk of steel that's ground to a taper on the edge will balance out any lost field strength, while protecting the magnet.
> A shallow ring of any metal to protect the sides, and maybe overlap the tail cap, a dab of epoxy or silicone to get squeezed out between the magnet and the steel cover/ shield...



In my experience, neodymium magnets are very brittle and the stronger they are the more likely to chip - the idea of protective steel is great as it is permeable to magnetic fields. 

My solution for magnetizing my lights is gluing an array of rectangular magnets approx. 2x3x5 mm each on the pocket clip, and putting some heat shrink around it for protection. It takes 3 or 4 to get a nice strength - I've hung my H53c with an Eneloop from a screw. The real beauty of using a pocket clip for magnets is the ability to point a right angle light anywhere in a hemisphere.


----------



## dmsoule

likethevegetable said:


> In my experience, neodymium magnets are very brittle and the stronger they are the more likely to chip - the idea of protective steel is great as it is permeable to magnetic fields.
> 
> My solution for magnetizing my lights is gluing an array of rectangular magnets approx. 2x3x5 mm each on the pocket clip, and putting some heat shrink around it for protection. It takes 3 or 4 to get a nice strength - I've hung my H53c with an Eneloop from a screw. The real beauty of using a pocket clip for magnets is the ability to point a right angle light anywhere in a hemisphere.




Brilliant! I will try this soon. Will be especially useful when using one of the mules - H604, etc. - as a worklight.


----------



## jlittle

I picked up a H32F about two months ago and love it but between it and my HDS flashlight I’m running through 1-2 CR123’s a night. “Night shift helicopter maintenance” so i picked up the H600FD MKIV this being my first 18650 light can anyone suggest a charger and cell to order?


----------



## Glock27

jlittle said:


> I picked up a H32F about two months ago and love it but between it and my HDS flashlight I’m running through 1-2 CR123’s a night. “Night shift helicopter maintenance” so i picked up the H600FD MKIV this being my first 18650 light can anyone suggest a charger and cell to order?



Can't go wrong with Xtar and Sanyo GAs. I use: http://www.xtar.cc/products_detail/productId=59.html

G27


----------



## dmsoule

The 15th has come and gone in the USA. Anyone receive a shipping notice for the new headlamps? Sounds like Zebralight has been overwhelmed by demand for all the new mk iv models.


----------



## Petrsv

dmsoule said:


> The 15th has come and gone in the USA. Anyone receive a shipping notice for the new headlamps? Sounds like Zebralight has been overwhelmed by demand for all the new mk iv models.


I emailed them yesterday to see if my headlamp will ship on fri and was told that I will have to wait 3-4 weeks before my order will ship. I ordered mid November.


----------



## 20vturbo

Petrsv said:


> I emailed them yesterday to see if my headlamp will ship on fri and was told that I will have to wait 3-4 weeks before my order will ship. I ordered mid November.



What model? I ordered a H600Fd at the end of November...


----------



## likethevegetable

Ordered an H600Fc IV to Canada via EMS on Nov, 13 - Order 10376429

No shipping notice yet. Looks like it might be a month before I see mine based on what I'm seeing around here.


----------



## Petrsv

20vturbo said:


> What model? I ordered a H600Fd at the end of November...


Yes 600fd mk4


----------



## 20vturbo

Petrsv said:


> Yes 600fd mk4



Ugh don't they know this is an addiction! I had to order another light last night to hold me over.


----------



## phips

Thanks for the heads-up on the shipping times... ordered a H600Fd Mk IV myself.

Which battery would you guys recommend for the light?
1) Samsung INR18650-35E, 8A, 3450mAh
2) Samsung INR18650-30Q, 15A, 3000mAh
The 35E should to deliver enough power during normal conditions but what about freezing weather?
Reason I am asking is that my current bike-light (H600Fw Mk II, EagleTac 3400mAh) will not switch to high power once its been running on medium in the cold airflow for a while.


----------



## dmsoule

Petrsv said:


> I emailed them yesterday to see if my headlamp will ship on fri and was told that I will have to wait 3-4 weeks before my order will ship. I ordered mid November.



I just got the same reply, 3-4 weeks to ship, even though I ordered on November 2nd, one of the first days of pre-orders. Can we assume that they just haven't received any products from their factory?


----------



## Petrsv

dmsoule said:


> I just got the same reply, 3-4 weeks to ship, even though I ordered on November 2nd, one of the first days of pre-orders. Can we assume that they just haven't received any products from their factory?


That or they got a batch in with some defect and they are having them redone. It’s anyone’s guess right now but it does seem that no one is getting a headlamp before the 25 th. It’s going to be a dark Christmas.


----------



## dmsoule

phips said:


> Thanks for the heads-up on the shipping times... ordered a H600Fd Mk IV myself.
> 
> Which battery would you guys recommend for the light?
> 1) Samsung INR18650-35E, 8A, 3450mAh
> 2) Samsung INR18650-30Q, 15A, 3000mAh
> The 35E should to deliver enough power during normal conditions but what about freezing weather?
> Reason I am asking is that my current bike-light (H600Fw Mk II, EagleTac 3400mAh) will not switch to high power once its been running on medium in the cold airflow for a while.



I've never had an issue using lights in freezing weather. Except that run times are lower in my Zebralights since the PID stepdown is delayed. Of your choices, I prefer the 30Q since I can also use it in a hot rod like the Emisar D4. If that isn't a concern, just go with the 35E. Either way, please let us know if you experience the same problem with the Samsungs.


----------



## NPL

Zebralight website updated with 5 week lead time for most headlamps. Anybody who pre-ordered get a shipping notification yet?


----------



## TCY

NPL said:


> Zebralight website updated with 5 week lead time for most headlamps. Anybody who pre-ordered get a shipping notification yet?



ZL got back to me yesterday saying: "_We'll start to ship Mk 4 headlamps in a few days. The Mk4 headlamps share the same driver and optical components with the SC64 series, so there is nothing special there. We are just too busy trying to work through the pre-order queue of the mk4 flashlights._"

So obvioulsly your shiny new ZL is not going to wait for you under a Christmas tree, but if you pre-ordered yours very early, chances are it's gonna be there soon.


----------



## NPL

I wonder what their production runs are in terms of numbers. So stoked to receive mine... The wait is on.


----------



## 20vturbo

I bet they're just waiting to finish the .08 lumen runtime tests...


----------



## psychbeat

Wow - First light I’ve been excited for in a while!!
Hope the tint of the H600FC MKIV is as good as the MKIII easy white. 
I’ll be ordering one soon if it’s close.


----------



## Lumencrazy

Does anyone actually wear or use these lamps? Zebralight makes phenomenal lights (the best in my opinion). At the same time they include the cheapest, most primitive, and most uncomfortable silicone holders in the world! The outside edges dig into your forehead. I cannot find a poorer design. The new Armytek plastic holders csan be worn all day long. After 20 min the Zebralight holder has managed to imprint two deep vertical lines into your forehead. Wear it long enough and you can end up with a headache. They could do a lot better.


----------



## niraya

I only wear them with armytek pro v.3 plastic (non-silicone) holder headband - far superior and comfortable headband IMHO

https://www.armytek.com/products/ac...for-armytek-wizard-with-a-plastic-holder.html


Olight H2R magnetic headband is fine as well.

Zebra headband is on pair with skilhunt (useless).

Same story with Manker e02h and e03h headbands - truly excellent headlamps - with Nichia high CRI & user configurable moonlight of 21 levels - and absolutely horrible headband.

:nana:


----------



## waumpuscat

niraya said:


> I only wear them with armytek pro v.3 plastic (non-silicone) holder headband - far superior and comfortable headband IMHO
> 
> https://www.armytek.com/products/ac...for-armytek-wizard-with-a-plastic-holder.html
> 
> 
> Olight H2R magnetic headband is fine as well.
> 
> Zebra headband is on pair with skilhunt (useless).
> 
> Same story with Manker e02h and e03h headbands - truly excellent headlamps - with Nichia high CRI & user configurable moonlight of 21 levels - and absolutely horrible headband.
> 
> :nana:



So you are saying we can get this armtek hand band and use it with our zebra light ? I would do that in a heartbeat to keep from being so uncomfortable


----------



## likethevegetable

waumpuscat said:


> So you are saying we can get this armtek hand band and use it with our zebra light ? I would do that in a heartbeat to keep from being so uncomfortable



I sure hope we can - I already ordered one on Nkon. If it works nicely, I think I'll order another one. It was $6.00CAD all said and done.

Here is a photo that redditor tdh66 shared with me:

Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/7l9vcn/does_the_plastic_armytek_wizard_pro_headlamp/


----------



## Tachead

Lumencrazy said:


> Does anyone actually wear or use these lamps? Zebralight makes phenomenal lights (the best in my opinion). At the same time they include the cheapest, most primitive, and most uncomfortable silicone holders in the world! The outside edges dig into your forehead. I cannot find a poorer design. The new Armytek plastic holders csan be worn all day long. After 20 min the Zebralight holder has managed to imprint two deep vertical lines into your forehead. Wear it long enough and you can end up with a headache. They could do a lot better.


You have the headband too tight man. If you set the top strap tight then loosen the main strap till it is just just barely snug it is quite comfortable and still very secure.


----------



## markr6

Lumencrazy said:


> Does anyone actually wear or use these lamps? Zebralight makes phenomenal lights (the best in my opinion). At the same time they include the cheapest, most primitive, and most uncomfortable silicone holders in the world! The outside edges dig into your forehead. I cannot find a poorer design. The new Armytek plastic holders csan be worn all day long. After 20 min the Zebralight holder has managed to imprint two deep vertical lines into your forehead. Wear it long enough and you can end up with a headache. They could do a lot better.



I get it. Even not being too tight it will be annoying. It sounds weird, but you need to run the strap through the two rubber "O's" that also hold the lamp. Then insert the lamp. This will:

1. Hold the lamp tighter inside the rubber holder, preventing the lamp from accidentally rotating down (running, jogging)
2. Keep only a flat piece of rubber against you head, that will conform to the shape of your head. Out of the box the way they have it, the two lines are caused by the thicker part on each end/slots and not lying uniform across your head.

Give it a try!


----------



## Lumencrazy

Its a terrible design. Actually no design at all. It applies pressure on the outside edges only. The Armytek plastic holder is superior. Just go to any camping store and try on even a $20 headlamp. The holders are much more comfortable! Not up to par with the lights.


----------



## niraya

waumpuscat said:


> So you are saying we can get this armtek hand band and use it with our zebra light ? I would do that in a heartbeat to keep from being so uncomfortable


I do it all the time, It works with Zebras (as well as with skilhunt h03) and zebra headbands went all to garbage can.


----------



## markr6

Lumencrazy said:


> Its a terrible design. Actually no design at all. It applies pressure on the outside edges only. The Armytek plastic holder is superior. Just go to any camping store and try on even a $20 headlamp. The holders are much more comfortable! Not up to par with the lights.



I agree. But if you like the light itself, do what I described above and it will feel like any other light. Very comfortable. I hate having to tweak an $80 light out of the box, but that's how it is.


----------



## niraya

markr6 said:


> I agree. But if you like the light itself, do what I described above and it will feel like any other light. Very comfortable. I hate having to tweak an $80 light out of the box, but that's how it is.



I tried that and many other ways to make the original Zebra headband comfortable for my 8 hours a day wearing it. Finally the best solution was Zebra headbands in trash can and armytek holder used with all headlamps - perfectly comfortable for everyday full day use. IMHO Zebra makes some perfect headlamps (missing only user configurable moonlight a'la Manker) but they also achieved the goal of making the worst headband possible. Armytek will be perfect headlamp on the day they include very high CRI emitter. Right now I keep using the three in combinations. :candle:


----------



## gogdog

Sorry...here is a dumb question. 

So the h600 series can take both protected and unprotected 18650s. I do know that the h600 has built in batt protections so you can safely use an unprotected 18650. But....if you did use a protected 18650, does that mean you for sure lose the 1000+Lm level? Or....are there protected 18650s out there that allow high draw? (I'm not well familiar with 18650 batts/lights..just doing my research). And if so...what kind of amp draw would you need?


----------



## lampeDépêche

gogdog said:


> Sorry...here is a dumb question.
> 
> So the h600 series can take both protected and unprotected 18650s. I do know that the h600 has built in batt protections so you can safely use an unprotected 18650. But....if you did use a protected 18650, does that mean you for sure lose the 1000+Lm level? Or....are there protected 18650s out there that allow high draw? (I'm not well familiar with 18650 batts/lights..just doing my research). And if so...what kind of amp draw would you need?



Fair question, not a dumb one. 

I run my H600w and H602 on both protected and unprotected cells, and get teh same 1000+ top level on both of them. These headlamps do not draw such heavy currents that the protection circuits interfere. 

(I use Nitecore 3000mah yellow-label cells for the protected ones. I also use AW red-label IMR unprotected cells, which I can also use in my SC600 light that requires unprotected cells for length. The AW IMR's offer 20Amp max draw, which is insane, like you could probably weld with that for a very brief time. But the lights don't draw anything near that.)


----------



## Jiffy

Ace12 said:


> I’ll have to wait for the run times to be published before I commit to buying one. I’m most interested in the medium mode of 143lm. My current zebra MK iii medium mode is 62lm for 30 hours. If the new medium has the same runtime I’m sold.



They have published run times for the XHP35 Mk IV hand held flashlights. They're showing run time of 13.6 hours for 147lm and 36 hours for 65lm. The XM-L2 times were comparable between the flashlights and headlamps so I think the other times should be similar too.


----------



## Jiffy

Has anybody got a Mk IV yet? The site is still showing a 5 week lead time. :-(

My friend lost my H600Fd III High CRI. I really liked that light so want to get the new XHP50.2 Mk IV version. I don't know whether to get the H600Fd again or get the H604d version. 

Am I right:
H600Fd - frosted lens so smoother beam. 90 degree beam
H604d - gains 50 lumens as no frosted lens. 120 degree beam

Will the H600Fd illuminate further into the distance while the H604d will cover more to the sides?

Will the H604d have much of a hot spot?


----------



## twistedraven

H600FD will throw considerably more than the H604D. The no reflector models of Zebralights are pretty niche use IMO, where all they will be good for is extremely up close tasks or indoor usage type of things.

Here's a good video illustrating the differences. Older generation Zebralights, but the beam patterns are still the same:


----------



## Outdoorsman5

markr6 said:


> I get it. Even not being too tight it will be annoying. It sounds weird, but you need to run the strap through the two rubber "O's" that also hold the lamp. Then insert the lamp. This will:
> 
> 1. Hold the lamp tighter inside the rubber holder, preventing the lamp from accidentally rotating down (running, jogging)
> 2. Keep only a flat piece of rubber against you head, that will conform to the shape of your head. Out of the box the way they have it, the two lines are caused by the thicker part on each end/slots and not lying uniform across your head.
> 
> Give it a try!



markr6, 
I love this suggestion, and just reran all my ZL headbands using this method - way more comfortable!! Thanks man. 

I haven't tried the Armytek headbands. Are they more comfortable than your method?


----------



## markr6

Outdoorsman5 said:


> markr6,
> I love this suggestion, and just reran all my ZL headbands using this method - way more comfortable!! Thanks man.
> 
> I haven't tried the Armytek headbands. Are they more comfortable than your method?



Glad to hear it! It looks so wrong, but it just works! ZL are really the only ones I've tried. I used the NiteIze band for running with my H600w but that was just to eliminate any bounce. It's a heavy nylon webbing type material - just a simple band with velcro.


----------



## dmsoule

I asked Zebralight for a shipping update on my h604c, which I pre-ordered back in early November. They said they will start shipping in 5-10 days. Probably true for other mk iv headlamps as well, but can't say for sure.


----------



## Nuppet

likethevegetable said:


> I sure hope we can - I already ordered one on Nkon. If it works nicely, I think I'll order another one. It was $6.00CAD all said and done. Here is a photo that redditor tdh66 shared with me: Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/7l9vcn/does_the_plastic_armytek_wizard_pro_headlamp/


 The Armytek Wizard Pro plastic holder even fits Zebralight SC63 and SC64, so the flashlight can be used as a headlamp. As a glass-wearer I easily get some glare, though.


----------



## Petrsv

dmsoule said:


> I asked Zebralight for a shipping update on my h604c, which I pre-ordered back in early November. They said they will start shipping in 5-10 days. Probably true for other mk iv headlamps as well, but can't say for sure.


I got that same message 8 days ago. By the time it I will be able to pre order the mk five.


----------



## likethevegetable

My H600Fc IV just shipped (to Canada, via EMS). Purchased Nov. 13. The anticipation is killing me!


----------



## psychbeat

Ooooooh. 
Give us some impressions when u receive it. 

I’m gonna have to wait until I have some extra $$ 
going to give my MKIII FC to my GF .. maybe I’ll put it in the new box heheh


----------



## Ace12

niraya said:


> I only wear them with armytek pro v.3 plastic (non-silicone) holder headband - far superior and comfortable headband IMHO
> 
> https://www.armytek.com/products/ac...for-armytek-wizard-with-a-plastic-holder.html
> 
> 
> Olight H2R magnetic headband is fine as well.
> 
> Zebra headband is on pair with skilhunt (useless).
> 
> Same story with Manker e02h and e03h headbands - truly excellent headlamps - with Nichia high CRI & user configurable moonlight of 21 levels - and absolutely horrible headband.
> 
> :nana:



How well does it hold the Zebra? Any chance of it popping out?


----------



## niraya

Ace12 said:


> How well does it hold the Zebra? Any chance of it popping out?


Never happened to me, feels secure, but I ain't do any acrobatics . I use armytek headband with ZL, Skillhunt and AT of course - they all fit nicely.

BTW has anyone already received H600Fc or H600Fd Mk IV?


----------



## twistedraven

Still waiting for my H600FCs to ship out


----------



## Misthailin

Just received the H600fd today. Waiting til it gets a little darker to test it out


----------



## Petrsv

Misthailin said:


> Just received the H600fd today. Waiting til it gets a little darker to test it out


pics or it didnt happen


----------



## likethevegetable

Just an FYI fellas - my H600Fc came in and I started a new thread with my first impressions: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...st-Impressions :twothumbs


----------



## twistedraven

Got my notice for my H600FCs!


----------



## Alexi*

I orderd the H604c high CRI in november but now it’s removed from the Zebra page.


----------



## dmsoule

Alexi* said:


> I orderd the H604c high CRI in november but now it’s removed from the Zebra page.



I still see the h604c on their Google doc and their website. Hope nothing is wrong, I too have been impatiently waiting since November.


----------



## Sherbona

I just got my H600Fc MKIV. I love it (my first zebralight headlamp too) It really was worth the preorder wait. I decided for now I'm going to stay in the default "G5" mode, using its default values and then later I'll start messing with changing levels and such. On the zebralight site it lists this for the G5 group:



H1 is fixed at 1568Lm, H2 can be 980, 562, or 296Lm
M1 is fixed at 143Lm, M2 can be 63, 25.7, or 9.6Lm
L1 is fixed at 3.3Lm, L2 can be 1.0, 0.3, or 0.08Lm

Does anybody here happen to know which of the three listed values for H2/M2/L2 are set as default? I see the instructions for changing them, and I will soon, but I'm curious what they are 'out of the box' before I start messing with things. Thanks!


----------



## likethevegetable

Couldn't tell ya, Shebona. But the best way to find out it is by programming it, I just count the clicks it takes me to reach to/from the maximum or minimum level.

How's the tint on your sample?


----------



## Sherbona

Thanks for the suggestion. I think the tint is wonderful! I'm still getting used to it, it's very different from what I'm used to but I like it very much. My other headlamps are probably more around 5000k and aren't high CRI. Yeah I'll be doing the programming thing with it for sure, but so far I'm good with the out of box levels so I'm going to wait until I'm in a 'I have to change something' mood (probably in a few days lol). Which levels did you choose for the L2/M2/H2?


----------



## likethevegetable

Here's how I program it:
I've noticed the light has a hard time maintaining 1568lm when the battery is below 75% or so, so I have G7 the same but with 980 lm at max.


----------



## dmsoule

Just got the shipping notice for my h604c, pre-ordered back in November. Shipping to USA.


----------



## Alexi*

I have a hard time finding anybody shipping 18650 batteries to Sweden... Will the Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA be a good match for this series? I also got a shipping notice for my H604c this week.


----------



## Nuppet

Alexi* said:


> I have a hard time finding anybody shipping 18650 batteries to Sweden... Will the Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA be a good match for this series? I also got a shipping notice for my H604c this week.


 I live in Sweden and buy those batteries from nkon.nl as well as Zebralights and XTar chargers. When I buy I use the option of full tracking and sent by GLS at 10.98 Euro. There are cheaper full tracking at about 5/6 Euro using normal post, but for orders containing Li-ion cells I prefer the better handling from GLS (and handover to Schenker when arriving in Sweden).


----------



## Alexi*

Thanks Nuppet!


----------



## dsoden

I just received my H604c yesterday. I’m having a hard time believing that it’s 1616 lumens. Appearance wise, it seems much weaker than all of my 1000ish lumen lights, and certainly much dimmer than my H600w mkIII. I guess this could be because of the 120 degree no reflector spill but I figured 1616 lumens would compensate for that.


----------



## NPL

dsoden said:


> I just received my H604c yesterday. I’m having a hard time believing that it’s 1616 lumens. Appearance wise, it seems much weaker than all of my 1000ish lumen lights, and certainly much dimmer than my H600w mkIII. I guess this could be because of the 120 degree no reflector spill but I figured 1616 lumens would compensate for that.


Try a ceiling bounce in a small dark room and don't look up. The brighter light should make the overall room brighter. In real use, a full flood light will never seem as bright as one with a reflector.


----------



## likethevegetable

dsoden said:


> I just received my H604c yesterday. I’m having a hard time believing that it’s 1616 lumens. Appearance wise, it seems much weaker than all of my 1000ish lumen lights, and certainly much dimmer than my H600w mkIII. I guess this could be because of the 120 degree no reflector spill but I figured 1616 lumens would compensate for that.



Some simple math might shed some *ahem*, light, on the topic.

A cone with a half-angle Θ inscribes a projected solid angle of π*(sinΘ)^2. There's some error in this as I'm looking at the projected solid angles vs. actual steradians.. 

Assuming uniform beams (obviously this isn’t the case for the spot spill), the ratio of candela for the same lumens is:

π*(sin40°)^2/ π*(sin60°)^2 = 0.55.

So you would almost twice the lumens of a uniform 120° beam to throw as far as a uniform 80° beam. Now our actual spot/spill model will have a lot more lumens and candela in the middle of the beam, so it will throw even further than twice as far. If you compare the lights indoors, you’ll get a lot more glare from the spot/spill model due to the much higher intensity, and since your eyes will likely focus on the intense spot, it will look much brighter overall.


----------



## dmsoule

I received my h604c and am extremely pleased. I also have an h602w, and some 1500 and 2000 lumen Milwaukee brand 18 volt flood lights to compare. I am certain the h604c puts out 1600 lumens. It also has a beautifully neutral tint, no green, similar to the Milwaukee lights.

Thank you for the quantitative explanation, likethevegetable, very interesting and helpful!


----------



## eh4

I think that any "true Zebralight fanatic" needs to have a pure flood 18650 headlamp, especially if they have arms and do things with them, at arms length;
but I don't see needing more than one, or needing to upgrade very often at all. 
Maybe I'm not a true Zebralight fanatic, but I'll bet that aside from improvements to the tint, that my 602w is just about as good as the newest pure flood MK IV, or some upcoming MK V for that matter. 
I definitely won't stake any claims like that for my "old" 600Fw MK II against the new 600Fc MK IV however.


----------



## Keitho

Well said eh4. I see my mkIII fc as a lifetime purchase, or at least something that I won't consider upgrading for a decade or 2. I've been upgrading my sc's every year or so, however...


----------



## scs

This user reports overheating of the spring in addition to the already known PID output behavior...
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/59082


----------



## AEDe

scs said:


> This user reports overheating of the spring in addition to the already known PID output behavior...
> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/59082


Hi, it is me! 
Overheating is one part of a problem. The other side is large voltage drop on overheated spring it results in stepdown from H1 at 3.8V. (even under active cooling). So if your battery <3.8v you can turn on H1, but after heating up of spring step down take place.


----------



## phips

Flicker? Overheating spring? Oscillating PID?

I really regret being such a greedy ******* and pre-ordering.
Although Zebralight had a really good track-record so far in my perception.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

I ordered a H600Fc Mk IV 18650 XHP50.2 Floody 4000K High CRI Headlamp on 12/27. Still haven't received it, despite 4 emails with assurance it would be shipped in "3-7 days" that was 21 days ago and the latest email says 1-3 weeks, "sorry"

Anybody know what the deal is? Wondering if I should cancel this order if there are known problems?


----------



## ateupwithgolf

ateupwithgolf said:


> I ordered a H600Fc Mk IV 18650 XHP50.2 Floody 4000K High CRI Headlamp on 12/27. Still haven't received it, despite 4 emails with assurance it would be shipped in "3-7 days" that was 21 days ago and the latest email says 1-3 weeks, "sorry"
> 
> Anybody know what the deal is? Wondering if I should cancel this order if there are known problems?




Must be a zebralight lurker on here LOL. I just got shipping confirmation. Go figure.


----------



## Nev

Tell the lurker they need to do a it more work on the MK IV 's before I buy one[emoji12]


----------



## 3rdhvn

likethevegetable said:


> My solution for magnetizing my lights is gluing an array of rectangular magnets approx. 2x3x5 mm each on the pocket clip, and putting some heat shrink around it for protection. It takes 3 or 4 to get a nice strength - I've hung my H53c with an Eneloop from a screw. The real beauty of using a pocket clip for magnets is the ability to point a right angle light anywhere in a hemisphere.


I was wondering where you got your magnets?Thanks


----------



## ank

Does anyone know the runtimes for H600FD for each mode, H1, H2 etc ?


----------



## AEDe

ank said:


> Does anyone know the runtimes for H600FD for each mode, H1, H2 etc ?


Runtimes should be the same as for H600fc
According my tests with cooling and new 18650GA ~1600lm 10min, ~1000лм 55min. Without coolind at 25C for 1600,1000,600 runtimes are about 2.5 h


----------



## likethevegetable

AliExpress I believe. They're very strong and reasonably priced.


----------



## 3rdhvn

I read and reread this and a couple other zebralight threads. Not knowing what to buy. I bought the h600fw mk4 and h600fc mk4 off of amazon and I've had a couple days to play with them. I'll be sending back my least favorite one.
I'm a newbie, these are my first 18650 lights. So I figure I'll contribute my observations.FWIW 
My sony vtc6's with my extra wrap fit nicely into these headlamps They are my vape batteries.

There is a noticable flickering I think you guys call it "ringing". It seems more obvious on the Fc than the Fw. The longest time I've observed it was about 4 seconds when the light is dimming from H1. This doesn't bother me, as long as it doesn't get worse. 

I've ran it pretty hard H1 till it dims down and turning it off quickly and back on to high till it dims down. My spring never got hot (I'm not insinuating that anyone else's didn't). I Did test the side of the light with my cheap infared thermometer and the hottest I measured was 60degrees Celsius. The battery tested about 38 Celsius at the positive end.

Light comes through the button on the fc but not the fw. 

More random statements:huh:

Darn, I was hoping they would be alittle brighter. 

The Fw throws further outside, but has a more defined hotspot which could be annoying with close work. 

The color of the Fc is preferable everywhere except snow covered ground, although that's no biggy.

I think the Fc will meet all my needs...basement work, attic, car, working late outside as a carpenter. The one place I'm not thrilled with it, is the woods with it's lack of throw. But I guess there has to be a compromise somewhere.
I'm gonna try to take them out into the woods one more time before I have to make a decision.


----------



## Fespe

3rdhvn said:


> I'm gonna try to take them out into the woods one more time before I have to make a decision.



Could you take a picture to do a comparison beamshot if it's not much trouble? I would really appreciate it


----------



## 3rdhvn

Fespe said:


> Could you take a picture to do a comparison beamshot if it's not much trouble? I would really appreciate it


I'll see if I can get some useful pictures.


----------



## Fespe

3rdhvn said:


> I'll see if I can get some useful pictures.




Thank you very much! I'm from Italy and I buy the ZL from nkon, but right now they are all out of stock except for the fc and fd.
Now...since I would use the light mostly in the woods for hiking I would have prefer the fw for the more brightness. So I'm undecided if waiting for nkon to restock the fw or go with the fc.


----------



## niraya

Fespe said:


> Thank you very much! I'm from Italy and I buy the ZL from nkon, but right now they are all out of stock except for the fc and fd.
> Now...since I would use the light mostly in the woods for hiking I would have prefer the fw for the more brightness. So I'm undecided if waiting for nkon to restock the fw or go with the fc.


H600Fd/c Mk IV 18650 with XHP50.2 IS actually brighter than H600Fw Mk IV 18650 with XHP35.


----------



## Fespe

niraya said:


> H600Fd/c Mk IV 18650 with XHP50.2 IS actually brighter than H600Fw Mk IV 18650 with XHP35.



Ok, but in terms of how the light would perform in the woods (in this case for me to illuminate better or see further when walking) the fw is it better or not? Of course with both headlamp at the same lumen.


----------



## NPL

The purpose of the H600f series is to use for close and mid-range distances. The difference between fw and FC for throw might be noticeable side by side, but insignificant if throw is most important for you. If you prefer throw, and don't mind 80 CRI, I would definitely recommend the H600w instead. It will throw significantly further, but still have a useful spill, and you can put DC fix film on the lens for the times you want an Fw kind of beam.


----------



## Fespe

NPL said:


> The purpose of the H600f series is to use for close and mid-range distances. The difference between fw and FC for throw might be noticeable side by side, but insignificant if throw is most important for you. If you prefer throw, and don't mind 80 CRI, I would definitely recommend the H600w instead. It will throw significantly further, but still have a useful spill, and you can put DC fix film on the lens for the times you want an Fw kind of beam.



thanks! I'm going mad deciding between H600w and H600fw!! For sure I need and like throw, but I wouldn't mind better light where my feet are.
I read a lot, and like you said many people suggest the h600w! And if you need more flood you can put the tape on the lens.
I think I should buy both model and then keep what I like and is best for me!!😁


----------



## niraya

Fespe said:


> Thank you very much! I'm from Italy and I buy the ZL from nkon, but right now they are all out of stock except for the fc and fd.





Fespe said:


> Now...since I would use the light mostly in the woods for hiking I would have prefer the fw for the more brightness. So I'm undecided if waiting for nkon to restock the fw or go with the fc.







niraya said:


> H600Fd/c Mk IV 18650 with XHP50.2 IS actually brighter than H600Fw Mk IV 18650 with XHP35.






Fespe said:


> Ok, but in terms of how the light would perform in the woods (in this case for me to illuminate better or see further when walking) the fw is it better or not? Of course with both headlamp at the same lumen.


Lumen is measure of total quantity of VISIBLE light. Fc/d & Fw at same lumen = same luminous flux = same perceived brightness. At same lumen difference will be in color range (high CRI),not in brightnes and slight difference in throw due to emitter size.


----------



## 3rdhvn

In case you haven't seen this yet these are some great comparisons. http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/25-zebralight-lampen-im-beamshotvergleich.50095/


----------



## Fespe

3rdhvn said:


> In case you haven't seen this yet these are some great comparisons. http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/25-zebralight-lampen-im-beamshotvergleich.50095/



Yes...I look at this page everyday!! 
Right now I could buy only the fc or fd (or the h600 cool white, but I don't want that tint) because they are the only one available on nkon. 
The picture are great and give you an idea of the beam, but till I don't have it on my head and test it I can't say if the throw of the h600fw would be enough for me or I would need more.
I think that I'm going to wait for the restock and then choose between h600w or fw. Right now I'm more inclined to the h600w, but I have time to think about it!! Because I sent an email to nkon asking when the headlamp would be available again, and they said that they already contacted zebralight for a restock and said that zebralight usually take weeks or a few month to send the headlamp.......


----------



## 3rdhvn

I think you have the perfect plan!


----------



## niraya

Fespe said:


> Yes...I look at this page everyday!!
> Right now I could buy only the fc or fd (or the h600 cool white, but I don't want that tint) because they are the only one available on nkon.
> The picture are great and give you an idea of the beam, but till I don't have it on my head and test it I can't say if the throw of the h600fw would be enough for me or I would need more.
> I think that I'm going to wait for the restock and then choose between h600w or fw. Right now I'm more inclined to the h600w, but I have time to think about it!! Because I sent an email to nkon asking when the headlamp would be available again, and they said that they already contacted zebralight for a restock and said that zebralight usually take weeks or a few month to send the headlamp.......



I have/had H600fd, H600fc, H600fw as well as h600w

I use them indoor and outdoor and IMHO H600w is least usefull as headlamp of the four.
If I can only keep one it will be definitively H600fd .

If I should rank them from best to worst for all combined indoor/outdoor uses it will be:

1. H600fd
2. H600fc
3. H600fw
4. H600w


----------



## Fespe

niraya said:


> I have/had H600fd, H600fc, H600fw as well as h600w
> 
> I use them indoor and outdoor and IMHO H600w is least usefull as headlamp of the four.
> If I can only keep one it will be definitively H600fd .
> 
> If I should rank them from best to worst for all combined indoor/outdoor uses it will be:
> 
> 1. H600fd
> 2. H600fc
> 3. H600fw
> 4. H600w



Thanks! Could you tell me the big difference in tint between the fw and fd?


----------



## niraya

Tint is different from sample to sample. 
fd tint deviation is 3 step vs 5 step in fw - so chance is that your sample of fd will be closer to BBL than random sample of fw
fw is warmer CCT - 4500 vs 5000
fd is much higher CRI - 90-93 vs 80 - colors look more natural in fd light - especially red, brown, orange, ...
fd is newer, brighter, more efficient, in many ways improved emitter - xhp50.2 vs xhp35
details see here:
http://www.cree.com/led-components/products/xlamp-leds-arrays/xlamp-xhp50-2
http://www.cree.com/led-components/products/xlamp-leds-discrete/xlamp-xhp35

If your area is forest I would definitively go for fc/d rather than fw

It is cheaper from http://www.zebralight.com than https://eu.nkon.nl/ (all h600x mkiv cost same there, unlike at nkon). And to Europe they will mark it under 22EUR VAT limit, if you ask them. :twothumbs


----------



## Fespe

Thanks!! Now it's more clear the cri subject!
I choose nkon only cuz I thought in case I need to send the light back maybe it would cost me less money and the shipment process seems better for Europe. And the price if you buy from zebralight with the tracking it's similar, if I'm not wrong.

They said this on international shipments

Quote
International Shipping
Packages are sent via China Registered Air Mail. Delivery time varies from 10 days to several months depending on customs and local delivery conditions. International orders are guaranteed to be shipped, but delivery cannot be guaranteed due to varying international conditions. Unquote

So I don't know if it's secure or not, whereas nkon it's perfect!! I bought 2 light from them and shipment and customers service it was great!


----------



## niraya

Fespe said:


> Thanks!! Now it's more clear the cri subject!
> I choose nkon only cuz I thought in case I need to send the light back maybe it would cost me less money and the shipment process seems better for Europe. And the price if you buy from zebralight with the tracking it's similar, if I'm not wrong.
> 
> They said this on international shipments
> 
> Quote
> International Shipping
> Packages are sent via China Registered Air Mail. Delivery time varies from 10 days to several months depending on customs and local delivery conditions. International orders are guaranteed to be shipped, but delivery cannot be guaranteed due to varying international conditions. Unquote
> 
> So I don't know if it's secure or not, whereas nkon it's perfect!! I bought 2 light from them and shipment and customers service it was great!



I bought some armytek lights and many batteries from nkon few times. I agree nkon is excellent - two days shipping.
From Zebralight tracked shipping from China to Europe was always free for my orders, but took longer - 1-3 weeks (depends on stock). But I do not ever need any flashlight urgently.


----------



## Fespe

You are right, the shipment from China is free but if you want tracking it's not.


----------



## mighty82

I have taken som current draw measurements from my h600fc mkiv if anyone is interested.

I measured the 6 highest settings (of 12 total). Battery was a ncr18650b at about 4.1v

12. 1568lm. 5300ma
11. 980lm. 2700ma
10. 562lm. 1270ma
9. 296lm. 550ma
8. 143lm. 230ma
7. 63lm. 110ma


----------



## niraya

Fespe said:


> You are right, the shipment from China is free but if you want tracking it's not.



I ordered two headlamps one month ago from zebralight.com (each *$89.00)* - both shipped by *airmail China Post with tracking* - *free shipping * - took two weeks to Europe from Shanghai.


----------



## evgeniy

I also ordered few headlamps and flashlights (latest - last week) from ZebraLight.com , all with "airmail China Post with tracking - free shipping", all parcels was perfectly tracked, typical time from China to Europe (Ukraine) - 3-4 weeks.


----------



## evgeniy

mighty82 said:


> I measured the 6 highest settings (of 12 total). Battery was a ncr18650b at about 4.1v
> 12. 1568lm. 5300ma
> 11. 980lm. 2700ma
> 10. 562lm. 1270ma
> 9. 296lm. 550ma
> 8. 143lm. 230ma
> 7. 63lm. 110ma



Thanks.


----------



## phips

You do get tracking with the free shipping but the package can take a looooong time getting to Europe.

Order placed: 11.12.2017
Order shipped: 02.02.2018
Still in the mail as of: 17.03.2018


Thank you mighty for the amperage measurements!


----------



## eh4

mighty82 said:


> I have taken som current draw measurements from my h600fc mkiv if anyone is interested.
> 
> I measured the 6 highest settings (of 12 total). Battery was a ncr18650b at about 4.1v
> 
> 12. 1568lm. 5300ma
> 11. 980lm. 2700ma
> 10. 562lm. 1270ma
> 9. 296lm. 550ma
> 8. 143lm. 230ma
> 7. 63lm. 110ma



That's interesting to see roughly doubling amps for doubled lumens, right up till the highest setting where doubling amps adds around 50%... 
good place to call it quits.


----------



## mighty82

Yes. In the highest 1568 lm mode it gets burning hot ridiculously fast, and will drop rapidly in output. I have programmed 980 lm as the highest setting myself. The visible difference is minor and not worth the downsides imo.

Btw, the 980 lumen mode on this light draws significantly less juice than the 970lm mode on my older h600fw mkii. 2700ma vs 3600ma :twothumbs


----------



## eh4

That's a nice improvement, should give something like 25% more runtime? Maybe more than that since the battery isn't being taxed so greatly.
My H600w MK II tops out around 900 lumens, and it gets hot quickly.


----------



## RavenTai

I need a new headlamp, I gather the Zebralight is well liked, having a hard time deciding between the H604c and H600FC MKIV, 

I need it for primarily arms length work, I am an aircraft electrician, I need to read tiny wire markings and tiny pin locations with old eyes in an unlit area, I assume I want the higher CRI of the cree xhp50.2, and I don't think I want spot/spill but I am uncertain if I want full flood of the 604C or the middle ground "floody" of the FC IV

My current headlamp is a cheap hunk from a big box store, the tiny hot spot poor color and low output are killing me. that and the broken tilt mechanism that is set to fixed position with tape. :shakehead


----------



## Keitho

My personal preference is for pure flood, for close-in situational awareness and a completely even cast of light. But, many (most?) will probably disagree with me, most likely due to some combination of:
- hard not to blind other people unintentionally
- hard not to distract yourself with a brightly-lit nose/hat/feet
- less useful beyond 6'
- need a higher setting (quicker cell drain) for most tasks

Those are all good points. I'm a bit infatuated with the pure flood, warm, high CRI beam of ZL, but I know it isn't for everyone.


----------



## eh4

If you get the 604c or 604d, it's going to be excellent for your work, but you might like it so much that you're disappointed that it's so specialized and lacks range for using it as more than just a work light. 
I've got the older 602w (MK II) pure flood model as well as the 600Fw MK II and 600w MKII, and if I could only have one it would be the Fw, but the 602 pure flood lives in my tool bag and is the only one that I use for hours on end with the head strap, it can't be beat for arms length, attics, cellars, crawl spaces, etc. 
The regular 600 spot & spill is technically the most versatile with the greatest range, but it's more of a regular flashlight with a 90 degree bend, when used as a headlamp, many complain of the "dancing ball" effect from the fairly wide hot spot, and would argue that you're better off with a hand held light with a tighter hotspot instead, to complement a floodier headlamp, like the 600F.

To recap, if you get the F (floody) version it'll be so much better than what you're used to that you'll be head over heels. If you get the 604 it'll be Even Better for your work, but you'll end up buying another Zebralight because you'll want that kind of quality with more range. 
The F model with a pocket clip makes a great all purpose, 24/7 carry light, save time and get both.


----------



## RavenTai

Kietho & eh4, thank you for helping me decide, I went ahead and ordered the 604c.

I just started a new gig and these guys are doing heavy mods, full shifts using a headlamp to read sub millimeter markings, rarely further than 3' much less 6'. my current lamp has a hot spot and at that range it is only a few inches wide, annoying driving my head to the often uncomfortable spot to get the light where I need it. for that amount of use I don't mind the right dedicated tool. battery life is somewhat of a concern, you are right illuminating a bigger area will take more power to get to the same light level on the target bit, but I vape and already have a small fleet of 18650's with me. already have a 4 bay charger etc. just toss a couple more in the lunch bag. 

for through I have a small handheld streamlight, its a few generations back and will get replaced soon but its Ok for now. when the flashlight fund refills I will be looking for an upgrade.


----------



## likethevegetable

RavenTai,

I'm a huge fan of the floody H600Fc for an all-purpose light, and will likely never get a pure-flood like the H604. Whenever I need pure-flood, I roll a latex finger cot (or cut out the finger tip of a latex glove) and roll it over my H600Fc or H53c. It produces fantastic flood and should keep your light clean when working in dirt or barbecuing. Only drawback is having to explain to your coworkers and friends why you have a condom on your light 

Just my $0.02


----------



## tech25

RavenTai said:


> Kietho & eh4, thank you for helping me decide, I went ahead and ordered the 604c.
> 
> I just started a new gig and these guys are doing heavy mods, full shifts using a headlamp to read sub millimeter markings, rarely further than 3' much less 6'. my current lamp has a hot spot and at that range it is only a few inches wide, annoying driving my head to the often uncomfortable spot to get the light where I need it. for that amount of use I don't mind the right dedicated tool. battery life is somewhat of a concern, you are right illuminating a bigger area will take more power to get to the same light level on the target bit, but I vape and already have a small fleet of 18650's with me. already have a 4 bay charger etc. just toss a couple more in the lunch bag.



It sounds like the H604c would be the best for your application. I have the H600fc and within arms reach, I sometimes am bothered by the hotspot (yes, the hotspot is huge and blended but to me it is still noticeable) 
I think as a general usage (one headlamp) the "F" is better, especially outdoors. However, indoors considering you have a bunch of 18650s at hand, the 604 is much more useful.


----------



## eh4

I would really like to see a more permanent version of the finger cot trick, a rigid diffuser that grabbed onto both sides of the light with little teeth to catch the heat fin slots for instance. 
It would be about the size of a quarter and maybe 5-6 mm thick at the teeth, something that would stay on the light until pried off with finger pressure and stored in the watch pocket of jeans. 

As for the greater battery usage of the 604c due to no focus, you're still likely to get multiple shifts out of a cell. I don't do much fine reading with mine but I can see really well at arms length with the M1 setting (~60 lumens for 602w), for around 30 hours of runtime... I always swap batteries before they expire so I can't really say how long, but with periodic brief switching to H2 and H1, mainly using M1, you can get two or three 8 hour days on a battery without full discharge.


----------



## RavenTai

I actually had a cheap head lamp, Energizer? Rayovac? with a built in difuser years ago, its was a single AA, the main light was a tight spot beam with surprisingly good optics and range, a little plastic difuser could be rotated into place for close up, battery life was crap, 1 hr ? maybe 2? it was all plastic and cheaply built, but the design for the duration it worked was very nice until the plastice difuser got broken off. 

I wonder if a manufacturer could build in a difuser into the light where it slides into place over the led and under the glass, possibly magnetic linkage to an outside control, that way it is always with the light and protected inside and does not introduce a moisture ingress point.


----------



## likethevegetable

eh4: I made a few prototypes with a friend's 3D printer but unfortunately the quality was rather poor - some HDPE woulda been nice. I ultimately gave up since I switched to DC-fix with my H53c for a more in-between beam. I even recently sanded the DC-fix for a bit more flood. The finger cots still get use once in a while though.

RavenTai: I've dreamt of a lens with a magnetic ring around it that you could pop on and take off your fingernail. If the ZL bezels were like the ArmyTek Wizard's, it would work excellently.


----------



## RavenTai

feedback:

OK I was reading here about long shipping from China and also Zebralight was ( and still is ) listing a 4 week lead time on the H604C, I placed my order on the third, expecting to see it in a month or three, to my surprise I got a shipping notification the fourth that it had shipped out of Texas. it got here in Florida the 7th just before I had to leave for work. 


So you guys were spot on, the full flood of the H604c is awesome for arms length work beautiful smooth distortion free light. wire markings that were seriously testing my vision abilities the day before were plain as day with the H604C

It ran all night on one cell, probably about 6 hours actual run time on medium high, after you take out breaks, tool room, paperwork etc from an 8hr shift, charger showed there was still some life left in the battery when I got home.

You guys were also correct full flood is pretty useless for anything else I walked the dog with it when I got home just to try it out, we live on wooded acreage, I could navigate and see the ground directly in font of me well but with the full flood the illumination spreads out very quickly with distance, If that were that my use for it I would be unhappy. defiantly a single purpose tool. one I need for the majority of my workweek so that's OK. 

The two high modes are too bright and the flashlight heats up almost instantly, the two medium modes are perfect and the light runs just above ambient, 95 degrees F maybe? and the two low modes are not useful for work, possibly navigating in a dark bedroom without waking the wife? 

I got the "C" 4,000K as I find if lights are too blue it makes for eye strain after a few hours, but my C is actually pretty cream/butter color almost halogen (but not quite) in color. makes me wonder if I could have got away with the "D" 5,000K the warm color is easy on the eyes but noticeably warm. I was hoping for closer to neutral white, or maybe just on the warm side of it. 

it weighs about as much as my previous bulky plastic headlamp but since it is more compact and its center of gravity is closer to my head it feels lighter, there is less leverage twisting it, also being compact it also makes it easier to maneuver in tight compartments, my other light was constantly bumping into things. the head strap is wide and comfy, very nice

I thought the offset from center-line would be an annoyance but its actually a feature, I put it on the right as I am right eye dominant and I get a lot fewer problems with shadows from foreground obstructions as the light is closer to my eye. 

The full flood gets a glow in the dark bezel around the emitter instead of a reflector, it glows brightly green after you tun it off, but unfortunately it does not last long, coming back from a "15min" coffee break you still gotta find it the old fashion way.

I vibropened my name in the battery tube, It was the first vibration test works perfectly fine afterwards.


----------



## likethevegetable

Nice summary RavenTai, I never thought of positioning the LED on my right side as I'm right eye dominant as well and I usually position it on my left side, but I will definitely have to convert! :twothumbs

If you want a more comfortable and quick-release headlamp holder, the ArmyTek Wizard Pro works perfectly: https://ru.nkon.nl/flashlights/armytek/wizard-plastic-holder.html


----------



## tech25

Thanks for the follow up. You can also play with the levels on medium and high and see if anything else works better for you.


----------



## eh4

Follow-ups like this really add to the fun and make the forum rewarding.
I've never thought about the dominant eye aspect, I'm going to look into this, thanks.


----------



## Glock27

H600Fc Mk IV XHP50.2 Floody 4000K High CRI is now showing in stock @ ZebraLight.

G27


----------



## aZhu

Glock27 said:


> H600Fc Mk IV XHP50.2 Floody 4000K High CRI is now showing in stock @ ZebraLight.
> 
> G27



http://www.zebralight.com/H600Fc-Mk-IV-18650-XHP502-Floody-4000K-High-CRI-Headlamp_p_218.html

Still shows "4 weeks lead time" for me.


----------



## Glock27

Weird that status quickly reverted back to "4 weeks lead time". I was surprised when it showed in stock and quickly ordered.

Order status changed to Shipped! Accepted at USPS Origin Facility April 12, 2018 - 10:34 pm

G27


----------



## eh4

I'd like to know more about their manufacture process, it seems like they're coming out in batches. 
Tech changes so quickly now, many of my assumptions about how mass production works are probably wrong. 
It would be neat if each of these out of stock / pre-order cycles went along with any necessary small design and component sourcing tweaks... 

They design and test the light, manufacture a batch, sell, hear back about issues, tweak design, replace warrantied lights from next retuned batch... 

If they just soldered some resistors in, potted them and called it good, they wouldn't even need a warrantee department, and they wouldn't be Zebralight.


----------



## twistedraven

To any potential H600FC MK4 buyers, I am selling two new-open boxed ones for $80 shipped each! You can benefit off my tint snobbery. The two for sale were tested to have tints almost indistinguishable from the one I kept, so no one should worry about potential bad tints. The listing is currently in the classifieds-- pm for info.


----------



## tech25

Is the a big beam difference between the H600fc mk 3 and 4 versions? like spread/distance/tint

I just bought a Mk 3 but with the led upgrade, I am tempted to get the mk 4.


----------



## Bucklight

Has anyone tried to use the pogo-pin tail cap from one of the newer Zebralights on their headlamp? Unfortunately I don't own any headlamps (yet) to try it. I wonder if Zebralight will change over to the pogo pins on the headlamps due to the tail-spring current problem?


----------



## twistedraven

tech25 said:


> Is the a big beam difference between the H600fc mk 3 and 4 versions? like spread/distance/tint
> 
> I just bought a Mk 3 but with the led upgrade, I am tempted to get the mk 4.




Beam pattern and tints should be very similar if not same. Difference will be output on H1, and slightly higher CRI numbers. Slightly higher CRI will be a very subtle thing compared to tint differences.


----------



## tech25

Thanks so no groundbreaking change from the xhp led.


----------



## Fireclaw18

Finally ordered my first ZL headlamp: H604c with XHP 50.2 and 4000K emitter.

I use my headlamp for hobby work typically at ranges of less than 2 meters. I hope this is a nice upgrade from the $10 aspheric headlamp I've used for the last several years (cheapie with a quick and dirty mod consisting of an emitter swap to CREE XML2 5A2 and a generic 3-mode 1.5 amp Nanjg 105C 4x7135 driver). I would have kept using the cheapie, but the elastic in the band wore out and that model is no longer available to get a replacement.


----------



## eh4

Fireclaw18, you're getting a light that is so good, you might well forget that you have a light on your head. 
I forget about my MK II all the time when using it for extended periods of time. 
The biggest downside of these reflectorless lights, aside from their limited range, is that you can't really look to one side of someone and spare them most of the glare. If you can see their eyes, you're blasting them.

Holding down the switch to get to Low and tipping the light down when talking to someone is an easy habit though, besides you'll look all Sci-Fi and badass with the down facing low flood, and your effortless light management will make them inclined to think that you're extremely competent in untold other mysterious arts as well... or that you're a light geek. ;-)


----------



## Fireclaw18

eh4 said:


> Fireclaw18, you're getting a light that is so good, you might well forget that you have a light on your head.
> I forget about my MK II all the time when using it for extended periods of time.
> The biggest downside of these reflectorless lights, aside from their limited range, is that you can't really look to one side of someone and spare them most of the glare. If you can see their eyes, you're blasting them.
> 
> Holding down the switch to get to Low and tipping the light down when talking to someone is an easy habit though, besides you'll look all Sci-Fi and badass with the down facing low flood, and your effortless light management will make them inclined to think that you're extremely competent in untold other mysterious arts as well... or that you're a light geek. ;-)


Looking forward to getting it.

I've been collecting flashlights for many years. I own dozens of flashlights and have modded a lot of them ... some with fairly ambitious mods (such as converting a 1xCR123 Sunwayman C10R into a triple XPL HI light powered by 1x18500).

But in all that time, I've only ever owned the one headlight. It was a $10 headlamp with aspheric zoom lens and runs off 1x18650. When I got the light I replaced the emitter with an XML2 5A2 on copper Noctigon and the driver with a 3-mode 1.5 amp driver. 

This was a super-fast and sloppy mod. I didn't upgrade the thin driver wires. Not even sure I bothered to put AS5 thermal grease under the star. Yet despite the lack of time I put into this light it is actually my most used light... by far. It's the only light I own that I routinely run until it dims from the battery running too low. Usually I kept the aspheric zoom in flood mode for up-close work. Occasionally I would narrow the beam a bit if I needed more light on target. If I wanted max flood, I'd unscrew and remove the lens and just have the bare LED.

Unfortunately, the elastic in the headband on this cheapie wore out. And surprisingly the light is no longer available. 5 years ago generic cheapies that looked like my modded light were everywhere. Now they aren't available from anywhere. I've been using it with a Zebralight headband installed as a replacement. But it's not a great solution as my cheapie light is a bit bigger than the Zebra. The result is it works, but the band is too tight so can't easily tilt the light up and down.

Since I use my headlamp so much I decided it was time to get a "real" headlamp. I'm also quite impressed with my last two Zebralight flashlights (SC64w and SC600w IV Plus).


----------



## eh4

Fireclaw18, when is that thing supposed to arrive?


----------



## Fireclaw18

eh4 said:


> Fireclaw18, when is that thing supposed to arrive?



Actually just arrived today. Can't test it yet though. At work and no 18650s on hand.


----------



## eh4




----------



## Fireclaw18

Tried out my H604C last night.
*
Very impressive*. As expected for a mule configuration I got an enormous wall of light with no visible hotspot and no throw. The 4000K color temperature looked great and the tint did not appear greenish at all. Having high-CRI for a light that I use for hobby projects and artwork is great.
*
Compared to my old modded $10 cheapie headlight* (aspheric zoomie with 4000K XML2 5A2 and generic 3-mode 1.5 amp Nanjg 105C driver):
* The intensity of the Zebra's output at max turbo looked similar to the cheapie at full power. Except the cheapie's output was in a small circle, while the Zebra's was a gigantic wall of light and had better color rendering.
* The Zebra is significantly smaller and lighter and feels much more comfortable on the head.
* The cheapie is not affected by heat and can maintain full brightness as long as the battery holds out. The temp sensor in the Zebra will cause the high settings to ramp down.
* However, even with the rampdown, I still found the Zebra excellent for my needs. Much superior to the cheapie.
*
Also, none of the potential concerns I turned out to be problems*:

** No Glare on reading glasses*. With the wide angle beam and light source close to the head I was concerned that I might get glare on the reading glasses I sometimes use when doing fine-detail hobby work. Fortunately, in testing this was not the case. Tilting the light up enough works to get plenty of light on the target without the beam hitting the glasses.

** Not green*. Having read the posts about the SC64C, I was concerned that the 604C might have an ugly greenish tint. Fortunately, this was not the case.

** Temp rampdown not too aggressive*. I knew that this light would have rampdown. I was concerned because unlike with my EDC, I tend to use my headlamp for long periods of time. Sometimes an hour or more without turning it off. I worried that the rampdown combined with mule setup might result in too little light on my project after a few minutes. This also turned out not to be the case.
*
I like this light*. It would be wonderful if they came out with an SC600c IV Plus that uses the same LED. The tint looks much better than my SC600w IV Plus.


----------



## eh4

Cool, Cool. Thanks for the good feedback. 
I wish they'd go ahead and post runtimes for their levels. 
I'm getting closer to getting one of these MK IV, probably have to take my own advice and get the flood and floody both. 
Although the MK II warm flood and floody are both serving well, that 4000K high CRI and greater efficiency sounds really appealing, and the programmability is extra icing. 
After having the MK II's for several years now, it'll be odd relegating them to spares, having great spares to lend out is half the fun though.


----------



## aZhu




----------



## knucklegary

^^ 👍👍👍


----------



## Bucklight

I received my first Zebralight headlamp yesterday, the H600Fc. I love the quality of light and the beam spread, but I have a few issues that make the light less than perfect:

1. The clip on it is not nearly as nice or practical as the one that comes with my SC600w IV Plus. The clip has a little ledge where is stands proud of the body of the light. It prevents my pants from going all the way to the end of the clip. Also on the ring of the light, it flairs out at the ends which is total unnecessary and creates an annoying bump. And finally, only one set of grooves in the light are flat where the clip fits well, the other grooves are rounded. The clip doesn't fit as well in those. 

2. The rubber button is actually higher than the silver metal surrounding the button. It makes it more likely to turn on the light by accident and it also prevents the light from standing flat on its head. My switch on the SC600w is deeply recessed and I don't worry about turning it on accidently while being carried in my pocket with the clip. 

3. I wish it had pogo pins in the tail cap instead of the spring.


----------



## noboneshotdog

^^^
Good post. Many of us actually wish for springs instead of the pogo pins as the pins have been known to dent the ends of the cells. I have dents on the positive and negative ends of my cells.

So, the springs just may be a positive attribute of this light.


----------



## Bucklight

Surprisingly, the clip from the SC600w doesn't fit the headlamp, different body diameter. Are there any other clips that would fit the H600Fc? From another brand?


----------



## eh4

So, for the MK II version of the H600, the H model clip fits butt up or head up, with two flat slots that fit the clip either way. 
That's one of the shortcomings I am planning on dealing with with the MK IV, I'm hoping that the H style clip will fit well enough into the curve at the neck of the light, because carrying it head down in a pocket is not going to be acceptable.


----------



## ThunderCloud

I'm having trouble with programming the sub modes.

Right now my H1 = H2 = M2

After double clicking 6 times, each subsequent double click just made the light brighter. It never cycles back to low. So since I got H2 and M2 stuck on the highest setting, further double clicks after 6x double click does nothing.

Edit: What the hell? I think I got H1 = H2 = M1 = M2.

I thought M1 is not programmable?

Edit: Nevermind, I figured it out. I accidentally went into the G6 / G7 mode which is not listed in the accompanying manual.


----------



## likethevegetable

ThunderCloud said:


> I'm having trouble with programming the sub modes.
> 
> Right now my H1 = H2 = M2
> 
> After double clicking 6 times, each subsequent double click just made the light brighter. It never cycles back to low. So since I got H2 and M2 stuck on the highest setting, further double clicks after 6x double click does nothing.
> 
> Edit: What the hell? I think I got H1 = H2 = M1 = M2.
> 
> I thought M1 is not programmable?
> 
> Edit: Nevermind, I figured it out. I accidentally went into the G6 / G7 mode which is not listed in the accompanying manual.



When you're in the programming mode, triple-click will bring you to a lower brightness mode.

I've found that a good way to dial in your settings is to go all the way to the lowest or highest mode, then double-click to go up or triple-click to go down down (respectively) to the desired level by keeping track of the amount of levels you've gone through.


----------



## dmsoule

Bucklight said:


> Surprisingly, the clip from the SC600w doesn't fit the headlamp, different body diameter. Are there any other clips that would fit the H600Fc? From another brand?



I purchased this clip from Zebralight, before they made one available for the h60x models: http://www.zebralight.com/Pocket-Clip-for-H31-H32-H302-H51H52H53-H502_p_80.html

I actually prefer it to the one which came with my h604c, because it is smaller and more comfortable in my pocket. It's designed for their AA headlamps, but it has worked great on the 18650 models.


----------



## MX421

eh4 said:


> Cool, Cool. Thanks for the good feedback.
> I wish they'd go ahead and post runtimes for their levels.
> I'm getting closer to getting one of these MK IV, probably have to take my own advice and get the flood and floody both.
> Although the MK II warm flood and floody are both serving well, that 4000K high CRI and greater efficiency sounds really appealing, and the programmability is extra icing.
> After having the MK II's for several years now, it'll be odd relegating them to spares, having great spares to lend out is half the fun though.


I was on the fence on these new MK IVs because even now Zebralight didn't have the runtimes posted. I also have/had a MK II (H602w) that served my needs quite well, but the combination of a recent painting job where i needed the Hi CRI and twistedraven's H600Fc he had up for sale had me ordering a H604c and buying twistedraven's H600Fc. Still prefer the full flood for up close work (especially overall views of wall painting), but i do see why people like the H600F lights. Still testing out the two differences between the lights to see what tasks are best suited by each light. Beam profile aside, I'm loving the hi CRI of both...



Bucklight said:


> Surprisingly, the clip from the SC600w doesn't fit the headlamp, different body diameter. Are there any other clips that would fit the H600Fc? From another brand?



Armytek clips for their headlamps fit the Zebralight headlamps. Its about the only thing i'll tout about the Armytek headlamps...


----------



## eh4

I think that now that the issue of the Floody model lenses breaking more easily than non frosted glass is an old, defunct issue, 
-that the floody models seem to embody the best of what the right angle headlamp/24-7 pocket carry, general purpose light can be.

Beyond that I want a pocket thrower, preferably to go with the floody.

Pure flood remains my least favorite, it's so limited, 
yet also the only one that I regularly use for hours on end while rarely noticing.
I'm not even aware of the nearly ideal flood except when the shadows are unfavorable,, while this light is actually making me money... which pays for the lights that I get all silly over.
I'm sure there's some metaphors and analogies in there, but when something works really, really well, basically seamlessly, it tends to be taken for granted.


----------



## Fireclaw18

Been using my H604c quite a bit for hobby work. It's really nice, but defnitely not perfect.

The wide flood beam starts off bright, but after a few minutes the PID kicks in and dims the output. Also, while overall lumens are good initially, intensity on my project isn't great because the beam is so spread out. My modded $10 cheapie easily produces more light on target at 1.5 amps than the Zebralight with pure flood does at 3 amps.

Because of this I tend to run my H604c at full power all the time, while I ran my old headlight at medium power, which was only around 500 mA. As a result I find myself having to change the battery much more often than my old light.

On the upside, it is much lighter weight than my old light so feels much better on the head. And the high-CRI beam is useful for hobby painting where having good color definition actually matters.

Overall the H604c does what I expected and I consider it a great light. I find myself reaching for it much more than my old headlight.


----------



## TheShadowGuy

I just got tracking info for my 4000k H600Fc! I'll update when it's arrived and used it a bit. I was debating between this and the Armytek Wizard Pro.


----------



## eh4

Fireclaw18, the Fc versions deliver an egg curved cone of light that keeps maybe 70% of the intensity of the hotspot while spreading and smoothing the light across center of focus and into periphery. 
Fc is the one that stays in my pocket, my original spot&fill model is relegated to spare, and my pure flood stays in the headband and gets used for work. 
I got to use an AA powered Fc that I gave to a friend and it delivered good, usable light over a dinner plate size area at arms length with much less power than my pure flood 602w. 
If I were typically working on small projects in close areas then Fc would be just as good or better than full flood, messing with wiring, under a vehicle, etc. 
The pure flood is great for limited range spatial awareness, chaotic work environments, but so wasteful when you need a task light on your head. 
The 602w really is my least favorite ZL, still the best one for wrapping up jobs in the dark, climbing ladders, avoiding head bumps and finding tools. 
When I get a 600Fc MK IV I'll try the old 600Fw MK II as a work headlight again, it's too good though as a pocket light to keep putting the headband on and off, especially with the pocket clip complicating the headband attachment process.


----------



## eh4

Also, my 600Fc works fine for short duration hands free use, I'll hold it with my teeth by the pocket clip, in the style of 007/sci-fi pocket scuba, and can still mumble intelligibly if need be. 
The ergonomics are good, it's really convenient to have hands free light in 3-5 seconds any number of times a day without a bulky headband. If I need hands-free for more than a few minutes or I'm climbing around and worried about losing my teeth, then I get the headlight.


----------



## TheShadowGuy

I'm really liking the 600Fc! Once I got it set up the way I want it, the modes are well spaced, the tint is quite pleasant and doesn't have any greenishness, plus it is smaller than I envisioned. Overall it makes for an excellent headlamp.

I haven't seen the weird flickering some users have reported. I only used the H1 (which I'll call Turbo) for a bit. Using a fresh Samsung 30q, the head became hot in seconds, then uncomfortably hot not long after. I ran turbo for maybe 20 seconds before turning it off to let it cool. It did cool quite quickly at least. I'm a bit skittish about heat, so I don't really want to stress test it. 

The only issue I have is that the clip I received is hideously bent.


----------



## Secateurs

Bucklight said:


> I received my first Zebralight headlamp yesterday, the H600Fc. I love the quality of light and the beam spread, but I have a few issues that make the light less than perfect:
> 
> 2. The rubber button is actually higher than the silver metal surrounding the button. It makes it more likely to turn on the light by accident and it also prevents the light from standing flat on its head. My switch on the SC600w is deeply recessed and I don't worry about turning it on accidently while being carried in my pocket with the clip.



My H600Fd has a fully-recessed button. I.e. it can stand on its head no problem without the rubber switch touching the surface. Does yours have a warranty issue I wonder?


----------



## Secateurs

Review of my H600Fd:

Pro's:
* Love the new User Interface (UI) - see my other thread asking how people have set theirs up.
* I usually like cool white. The cooler the better actually. So I was worried that 5000k wouldn't cut it. But it's just ok. Maybe because it's high CRI?
* I think this one has slightly better water resistance rating than my old ZL? Not that I had any issues leaving my old one sitting on the bottom of the shallow end of the pool for the cool illumination effect and to show off...

Con's:
* My previous ZL 18650 was a spot and spill. Thought i'd go for a floody this time (and high CRI) to make it better for the odd times I use it for fill for photography. Didn't want to go full flood though because I need a light I can use all the time for everything. Unfortunately, the beam has a higher colour temperature in the middle hotspot than the rest. I.e. it looks bluer in the middle, the brightest bit. Sad.
* The thing that wore out first on my old ZL was the headband. Stretched. They still supply pretty much the exact same band.
* The holder for the light on the band leaves marks on my forehead because it digs in = not well designed. Gets uncomfortable after a while, especially when I am working under a car or something and I tighten the band so it doesn't fall off when I have my head upside down.
* The pocket clip and/or tail cap doesn't have magnets.
* This light gets really hot really quickly on the PID modes. I live in a hot part of the world and this concerns me. I would prefer a slightly larger head with bigger fins, and maybe even fins on the body of the light as well, to try to sink more of the heat and allow the light to be used for longer on the highest settings. The added bulk would be well worth it for me.

I miss the throw of my spot/spill ZL. Even though the H600Fd is 300lm or so brighter on high it doesn't compensate for the spot of my old ZL. But I knew that would be a compromise, and the floody will be better for photography, and maybe slightly better for close-up work (not that I ever had an issue with spot/spill for that though). I'm thinking I may need to bump up the brightness more often with the floody, especially when I need throw outside. Then battery life/PID might become more of an issue. We'll have to wait and see.

Even though the cons list is a lot longer than the pro's, I still absolutely love this light. The best upgrade by far is the new UI, which makes it worth it on its own. if only wish they would fix the mounting system and heat dissipation.


----------



## markr6

Secateurs said:


> * The holder for the light on the band leaves marks on my forehead because it digs in = not well designed. Gets uncomfortable after a while, especially when I am working under a car or something and I tighten the band so it doesn't fall off when I have my head upside down.



I can't wear it as is. I undo the strap and also pass it thru the two rings as well - the round parts that actually hold the light. It sounds weird but I've been doing this on all my headlamps for years and it works great:

1. It's comfortable since you have a solid, smooth piece of rubber against your head conforming to that shape. No bumps, lines, etc.
2. It holds the lamp inside the rubber a little tighter, which is good for any active use like running or mountain biking.


----------



## Secateurs

markr6 said:


> I can't wear it as is. I undo the strap and also pass it thru the two rings as well - the round parts that actually hold the light. It sounds weird but I've been doing this on all my headlamps for years and it works great:
> 
> 1. It's comfortable since you have a solid, smooth piece of rubber against your head conforming to that shape. No bumps, lines, etc.
> 2. It holds the lamp inside the rubber a little tighter, which is good for any active use like running or mountain biking.


Yeah, saw you post this a few months ago. Changed my old zl over. Improvement, but still leaves marks in my forehead.


----------



## likethevegetable

Secateurs said:


> Yeah, saw you post this a few months ago. Changed my old zl over. Improvement, but still leaves marks in my forehead.



The ArmyTek Wizard Pro mount works well. It can be purchased as a spare part.


----------



## Keitho

H604c ordered 4 June, and was delivered 2 days, 22 hours, 44 minutes later to Colorado. Pretty nice turnaround time!

Love the warm, high CRI, pure flood for slow speeds (walking) at night outdoors. I "needed" this one for an upcoming multi-day trip in the San Juan mountains of CO, to go with an H600FwIII that I already had. I like the 4000K vs 4500K, and like the new UI, especially when handing the light to my wife (one click on to low; she seems to expect low-med-high when cycling through modes, so that's how I programmed it).


----------



## see level

Can anyone tell me the difference between the 18650 size zebra light headlamp and the cr123 size. I mean in Practical use how much lighter is a cr123 size. I have a H600fdlll high cri floody neutral white 5000k headlamp which I really like but I would like a lighter one. Also the CR 123 size only comes in cool White. Does anyone have both these lights, the h 600fdlll and the cr123 size 6300 k cool White to compare the two side-by-side? Thanks for any input.


----------



## terjee

see level said:


> Can anyone tell me the difference between the 18650 size zebra light headlamp and the cr123 size. I mean in Practical use how much lighter is a cr123 size. I have a H600fdlll high cri floody neutral white 5000k headlamp which I really like but I would like a lighter one. Also the CR 123 size only comes in cool White. Does anyone have both these lights, the h 600fdlll and the cr123 size 6300 k cool White to compare the two side-by-side? Thanks for any input.



I’d expect the CR123 to be much lighter, not just the light, but the cells are lighter too. The CR123 zebras have however not been updated in quite some time. If you want a lighter lithium variant, I’d recomment also considering AA versions with L91. While I don’t have any CR123, my kid has an AA version. I see that for indoors use, it can be quite a good choice. For outdoors though, wanting more light, range or runtime, I wouldn’t trade my 18650 for an AA or CR123.

I might be slightly biased though, as I’d stay clear due to the cold light as well.

Sorry for butting in with no direct answer, I just really wanted to suggest putting the AAs on the table, unlike the CR123 ones, they’ve been updated, comes in a wider variety, and you can use them with L91 lithiums (not rechargeable ones though, but there’s Eneloops for that).


----------



## see level

Thanks for the input. I thought about the AA zebra light headlamps but they are heavier then the cr123 size and not as bright. They do have more options though and I really don't want a cool White version. All the AA sizes that take 14500 batteries are cool White also. A couple of the AA neutral whites have an operating voltage up to 4.2 but they say 14500 batteries are not supported. My question is has anybody used a rechargeable 14500 for an extended period of time in the AA neutral White zebralight without it burning the Led Out.


----------



## Nev

I have a H52 & a H52f , I only run them on 14500's ,have done for over a year.


----------



## terjee

see level said:


> They do have more options though and I really don't want a cool White version.



There have been warm white versions, so you might be able to find something second hand.


----------



## knucklegary

Thought I'd ask CPF members if there are any issues (have all bugs been fixed?) with H600fd MK IV 18650 XHP50 ~ 5000k (tint lottery?)

Does head band (elastic) hold-up well, or wise to get a spare?
Thx..


----------



## terjee

knucklegary said:


> Thought I'd ask CPF members if there are any issues (have all bugs been fixed?) with H600fd MK IV 18650 XHP50 ~ 5000k (tint lottery?)
> 
> Does head band (elastic) hold-up well, or wise to get a spare?
> Thx..



Not exactly the same, but since there are no takers yet....

I’m very happy with an H600Fc Mk III, and have experienced few issues with it. It’s possible to ask nicely in the order comments field if they can send you once with a nice tint. I’m not sure how much of a difference it makes, but I feel like I’ve won with regards to tint on all my zebras, so it might.

Head band has been good to me, but I haven’t been the heaviest user. What I always do with zebras, is to order a spare anyway, as if I’d have to guess, I’d guess the light will outlive the band. I also like having one black and one glow-in-the-dark, for the fastener, so I usually just order a full band+fastener.


----------



## vljm1

Hi there :wave:

Planning to buy H604Fd/Fc Mk IV XHP50.2 and probably Kdlitker C8.2 XHP50.2 5000K flashlight as a thrower.

Currently I have 1 proper battery left - green protected button top NCR18650B from aliexpress' Liitokala Factory Store (which is now accused at BLF for selling fake Samsung 30Q). In description it says maximum continuous discharge 4.875A, instantaneous 8-10A. As mighty82 measured here 1568lm draws 5.3A, 980lm - 2.7A, maybe it will work with all modes except H1 max?

Of course I need more. What batteries should i buy for these lights? Protected or not, flat or button? Kdlitker seems to have springs at both ends. Saw these recommended in forum:

Sanyo NCR18650GA
Samsung INR18650-35E
Samsung INR18650-30Q

All unprotected, with flat or button choice. Never used unprotected before. H604Fd cuts off at 2.7V. C8.2 has "Low Voltage Warning: It will keep flashing when the voltage is below 3V" so maybe change battery when it happens to avoid over-discharge? Anything else to do/avoid to use them safely? Charger I will use is Lii-500.

Do all XHP50.2 bins have high CRI?

What ZL and genuine battery stores/sellers with non expensive shipping to EU would you recommend?


----------



## knucklegary

Greetings Terjee, 

Thank you for your informative reply!!

I contacted ZL yesturday afternoon and received a speedy reply today.. 

CS addressed one of my concerns;

It appears some MK III and all MK IV 18650 lights come with a "simplified" PID algorithums/parameters to speed up manufacturing (calibration) process.
PID (hopefully) won't be an issue for me, and I plan to order a headlamp soon

@Vljm1
Have you checked out illumination.com for your battery needs?
Owner Craig, is very accommodating.. 90% business is online, but, he also has a brick'n motar store location. His prices are very competitive.. Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA is my go-to for my single cell lights!


----------



## TheShadowGuy

knucklegary said:


> Thought I'd ask CPF members if there are any issues (have all bugs been fixed?) with H600fd MK IV 18650 XHP50 ~ 5000k (tint lottery?)
> 
> Does head band (elastic) hold-up well, or wise to get a spare?
> Thx..


I have an H600Fc Mk IV 4000k. I find the tint on it excellent, but that's only one point of data.

The headband seems reasonable enough but in my experience, all elastics wear out over time... especially if you like to wear them over-tightened like me. I've heard Armytek's Wizard headband can be used as well, but I still need to try this. 



vljm1 said:


> Do all XHP50.2 bins have high CRI?




No, there are non-high CRI XHP50.2 LEDs; however, Zebralight doesn't seem to offer a non-high CRI XHP50.2 headlamp at the moment, although they do have lower CRI handhelds.


----------



## eh4

Yeah I'm in the waiting out bugs camp too, the MK II series has been really good to me. 
I did have one failure with an H600Fw MK II, which was fixed and returned, without explanation of what went wrong, and it's since logged as many hours as my other two H600 without fail, over the 2 years or so of daily use.
Recently I've dusted off the H600w MK II (my first ever 18650 powered ZL) and used it in place of the H600Fw MK II for daily carry. Not as good for up close, but the greater throw sure is nice for looking into crawl spaces, and at distance. I had gotten really used to the Fw. 
The MK IV models look so, so good.


----------



## vljm1

Could somebody please post some pictures of Fd 5000K and Fc 4000K beams to compare, both outdoors and indoors? Seen some of previous Mks but its hard to decide, jumping from one to another. Fc for the night camping, hiking?


----------



## TheShadowGuy

It'll be a bit before I can get some good shots. I don't have an Fd for direct comparison though. 

I prefer 4000k, especially outdoors, which is why I got the Fc. It really comes down to personal preference.


----------



## twistedraven

It's not completely apples to apples, but this is the FD MK3 vs FC MK4:


----------



## Romanko

What is better for close up work? F or C ?


----------



## maukka

Just briefly tested one H600Fc Mk4 sample.

Just like on most frosted ZL's, output is quite far from specified (1124 lumens measured @30s vs. 1568 advertised). The tint is great with little difference between modes. Tint shift is a non issue thanks to the diffused lens. Efficacy is mediocre.

CRI and tint data measured from the hotspot on max mode (H1). Very nice tint (duv 0.0011) at 3983 K.







CRI data on M1. Slightly warmer and farther away from BBL but still great (duv 0.0021).






Total system efficacy over the runtime is 86 lm/W measured on the 410 lumen H2 mode. A Clear improvement over the H600Fd Mk3 with an XM-L2 Easywhite which clocked in at 67 lm/W especially considering the CRI90+ emitter on the Mk4. Still far away from the H2R (135 lm/W).


----------



## twistedraven

So instead of a 500ish lumen high output that's PID regulated, it's around 400 lumen with flat regulation for 2.5 hours? That's rather nice. I think I'll use that as my high output for long walks and hiking.


----------



## maukka

Not quite. In room temperature without cooling, it will step down and start wildly oscillating at about 18-20 minutes.


----------



## maukka

Here's the PID hunting in action when the light is not cooled.






Zoomed in


----------



## twistedraven

Omg that looks horrible. If it were a difference of 150 lumens above 1000 lumens, the effect would barely be perceivable, but at 2-400ish lumens, that would be very noticeable. I'll have to test mine later.

EDIT: I just tested my H600FC MK4 (mine was a pre-order unit) on the 560 output mode up to 30 minutes. I'm not going to deny that there isn't some form of PID on this output, but if there were any changes I saw, they were small enough to make me throw them off as placebo. It was a relatively smooth output. I could not detect the oscillation, or at the very least, nothing was glaringly obvious and distracting.


----------



## terjee

Romanko said:


> What is better for close up work? F or C ?



F is frosted, for floodier beam.
C is for color temperature.

You can find both in the same light though, so H600Fc, which is also what I’d personally prefer for close up work.


----------



## Romanko

terjee said:


> F is frosted, for floodier beam.
> C is for color temperature.
> 
> You can find both in the same light though, so H600Fc, which is also what I’d personally prefer for close up work.



Sorry, I made a mistake. I mean Fc and Fd.


----------



## SergiT

Hello guys.
I have a Zebralight SC 600w mk IV Plus XHP 50.2 neutral white flashlight and I really like the beam. A few days ago I start to use it to go running but it is uncomfortable to carry and I wanted to buy an H600, but I don't know witch of them. 
Which of the H models has the beam more similar to the Sc600 IV Plus, I have? Maybe the H600Fc Mark IV XHP50.2 Floody 4000K High CRI? Mainly use is for running. 
Thanks for your answer's.


----------



## NPL

The sc600 plus Bean will be something in between the h600w and h600fw models. The F models diffuse the beam quite alot compared to a clear glass lens. The h600w will probably be closer to the sc600 plus in beam profile.

The F series will create a beautiful even light for illuminating the path ahead of you, but you will find yourself needing to bump up the brightness to illuminate further. The H600w will punch significantly further at a lower setting but created a tighter hotspot then your sc600 plus.

There are some old videos on YouTube comparing the h600fw and h600, that's a good starting point. 

I have the h600fc and love it, but miss my h600w mkii for its ability to illuminate further, especially when doing sports at speed. I could Backcountry ski at night with my h600w, but would have to go slower with my h600fc. 

If you get an h600w, you can always put some DC fix and diffuse the beam when you prefer it that way.


----------



## SergiT

Thanks. I will try to find this videos on YouTube.
Difficult choice only being able to buy one.


----------



## NPL

SergiT said:


> Thanks. I will try to find this videos on YouTube.
> Difficult choice only being able to buy one.


https://youtu.be/r-wj1rfu7hk


----------



## NPL

Actually, this one is better:
https://youtu.be/ByZjoNS6L_0


----------



## SergiT

Thanks a lot. That's videos help a lot.


----------



## zarny

Hi, I'm very interested in these headlamps, still little confused with some info though. I'm leaning towards H600FW mk4 based on what's been presented in this thread, but I'm still deciding on the pros and cons of FW vs FD and HXP35 vs XHP50.2. I understand Flood Wide, but Flood D?

As a side note, I'd love to have a headlamp that incorporates red light as an option or a filter with all the features Zebralight gives.

Any input to above would be appreaciated.


----------



## twistedraven

For Zebralight models, F and C denote their high cri varients, C being 'cool white' and D being 'day light'. Cool white is in reference to home lighting standards, where 4000k will be seen as cool compared to your average incandescent, which is around 3000k. the D lights are at 5000k, which is a CCT closer to mid-day sunlight. 

The confusing part is that the lights labeled W for 'warm' are just that, they are the lights with warmer CCTs of around 4500k, but do note that the C models are even warmer at 4000k.


----------



## SRSeedBurners

zarny said:


> Hi, I'm very interested in these headlamps, still little confused with some info though. I'm leaning towards H600FW mk4 based on what's been presented in this thread, but I'm still deciding on the pros and cons of FW vs FD and HXP35 vs XHP50.2. I understand Flood Wide, but Flood D?
> 
> *As a side note, I'd love to have a headlamp that incorporates red light as an option or a filter with all the features Zebralight gives.
> *
> Any input to above would be appreaciated.




I haven't found a Zebralight that has a red light option, only dedicated red lights. I'd be interested in one too. Fenix has a light with a red option (HL-60R i believe). Maybe a couple other manufacturers too.


----------



## zarny

I'm going to see Black Diamond Storm and Petzl Tactikka RGB at MEC store in Burlington, these incorporate 3 different lights in one headlamp and are fairly inexpensive in comparison to ZebraLight. Also, I bought Olight H2R Nova to compare. It seems it is a while till I can get my hands on Zebralight reading how long it takes to get one in Canada.


----------



## NPL

Any pre-ordering the H600c or H600d headlamp? Thoughts?


----------



## Glock27

Just got a tracking # for an XHP50.2 H600c!

G27


----------



## NPL

Glock27 said:


> Just got a tracking # for an XHP50.2 H600c!
> 
> G27


Oh, very nice! Please give us your impressions when you get it. Thanks!


----------



## Glock27

Loving the H600 50.2 with clear glass as opposed frosted. I prefer a definite hot spot and 600c does not disappoint. You have to increase brightness substantially with floody to achieve same brightness on target.

G27


----------



## NPL

Glock27 said:


> Loving the H600 50.2 with clear glass as opposed frosted. I prefer a definite hot spot and 600c does not disappoint. You have to increase brightness substantially with floody to achieve same brightness on target.
> 
> G27


How is the tint consistency? A lot of tint shift? 
Much more floody than h600w?

Thanks


----------



## Curious

maukka said:


> Here's the PID hunting in action when the light is not cooled.



Having just received my H600Fc mk IV and performed some measurements, I thought others might be interested to see how Zebralight appears to have tuned their firmware.

At my ambient temperature of 17C (63F) I did not experience any PID throttling on the lowest PID level (the nominally 562 lumen level), so to check for hunting I had to use the second highest level (nominally 980 lumen). I only had an older NCR18650B whose capacity is down to about 2.8Ah, so my times are a bit shorter than others have measured, but still quite long enough to experience throttling. I have no way to measure lumens, so I have normalised to the starting brightness as 100%:






Here is more detail of the first 15 minutes:






Note that there no longer seems to be the dramatic hunting. There is a small amount of ringing between 4 and 11 minutes, but I don't find that distracting or annoying (indeed I don't really notice it unless I am looking for it).

The regulation quality of my H600Fc is remarkable. It draws essentially the same power regardless of the battery voltage. Here is a graph (for the nominally 296 lumen level) showing the power vs battery voltage:






One implication of this is that, if we know the total energy that a battery can deliver at a given power draw, we can calculate the runtime based simply on the power. I have made some guesstimates (based on https://electricbike.com/forum/foru...asonic-ncr18650ga-lg-mj1-samsung-inr18650-35e) of the energy that a Sanyo NCR18650GA can deliver at the approximate power drawn for each level, and measured the actual power drawn by my H600Fc at each level, and arrived at the following estimates:






Note that for the PID levels these numbers assume perfect cooling; in practice the light will last significantly longer than this because it will throttle down to lower power levels when it gets too hot.


----------



## NPL

Thanks for the info and testing. I still have doubts any changes have been made because I think that PID on the highest output will be significantly different than your testing in the second highest PID. The sc600w hi doesn't oscillate at all on the highest setting. Let us know if you get a higher discharge rate cell like the GA and get to test the highest setting. I do hope they did improve it as I feel they should have fixed that in development before releasing the light.


----------



## Curious

NPL said:


> Thanks for the info and testing. I still have doubts any changes have been made because I think that PID on the highest output will be significantly different than your testing in the second highest PID. The sc600w hi doesn't oscillate at all on the highest setting. Let us know if you get a higher discharge rate cell like the GA and get to test the highest setting. I do hope they did improve it as I feel they should have fixed that in development before releasing the light.



As it happens my new Samsung INR18650-35E cells arrived today, so I can now give you my discharge graph for the maximum (1598 lumen nominal) level, with no cooling and at an ambient temperature of 19C:





Again it is slightly underdamped, but nothing to complain about, and certainly no hunting.


----------



## NPL

Thanks Curious. Looks like they have indeed corrected the hunting!


----------



## Beendare

I've been lurking for over a year on this thread and waiting for this info...thx Curious. 

I ordered my H600w mk IV XHP35 today....It was between the higher CRI version...and the spot....I got the spot.


----------



## phayward

> was between the higher CRI version...and the spot....

I thought you could get both together - spot and high CRI ?

I know the Zebralight website is rich in layers... but I waded through it and made a list...
Happy to be told I'm wrong, but I believe that (aside from the floody 'F' & Flood '604' models) 
there are four current (MkIV) 'spot' models - all with 12º spot / 80º spill :

H600 MkIV - XHP35 5700 K & CRI = 70
H600w MkIV - XHP35 4500 K & CRI = 80
H600c MkIV - XHP50.2 4000 K & CRI = 93-95
H600d MkIV - XHP50.2 5000 K & CRI = 93-95

Which means you'd have a choice of 2 temperature spots (600c or d) at the higher CRI.


----------



## Curious

phayward said:


> I believe that (aside from the floody 'F' & Flood '604' models)
> there are four current (MkIV) 'spot' models - all with 12º spot / 80º spill



The H600c and H600d use the larger Cree XHP50.2 and thus have a 17º spot.

The H600 and H600w use the smaller XHP35 and thus have a 12º spot.


----------



## immortal--

Hey, guys, I'm just curious which one from the H604 need to get.

I want something like that - https://abload.de/img/comp_3p1170500aesg7aksgh.jpg instead of that - https://abload.de/img/zebralighth600fwmkiixe3s05.jpg


----------



## Cpl S

immortal-- said:


> Hey, guys, I'm just curious which one from the H604 need to get.



It looks like you want pure flood with no reach. Maybe the frosted lens of the H600Fc Mk IV at 4000 High CRI would get you where you want to be. Any reason why you specifically want to choose from the 604's only?


----------



## immortal--

Cpl S said:


> It looks like you want pure flood with no reach. Maybe the frosted lens of the H600Fc Mk IV at 4000 High CRI would get you where you want to be. Any reason why you specifically want to choose from the 604's only?



No specifically reason, I'm new with all the info here, I think they are the latest models, but maybe i'm wrong. Need something around 1000+ lumens for 2-3h. On all 604's it says '120 degree flood', so I think it's like on the picture.


----------



## Cpl S

Looks like you know what you want  the 604 is what I picked, too, because 120 degree spill was better than the 90 degree flood of the 600 for my application. I figured I could put some DC Fix-It on the lens of the 604 if I wanted full frosted lens. I have a Sc600w MKIV if I need to get some lumens down range, so it and the 604 are a marriage made in heaven. 

Good luck on your decision, and let us know what you end up choosing!


----------



## likethevegetable

immortal-- said:


> No specifically reason, I'm new with all the info here, I think they are the latest models, but maybe i'mJu wrong. Need something around 1000+ lumens for 2-3h. On all 604's it says '120 degree flood', so I think it's like on the picture.



Just so you know, the light won't be able to sustain 1000 lumens for the entire time, it will likely drop to 600-700 lm after a few minutes. With the 604 120* flood models, the beam doesn't have near as much reach as the others, so if you want to see far, you'll need lots of lumens which the light can't keep up with. My H600Fc for example drops from its max (spec'd at 1500 lumens) to about 60% brightness after a minute. If this will be your sole light and you need some reach, I'd advise against it. But if you're only be using it short range or have a companion light that can throw a bit, it's a perfect option.




Cpl S said:


> Looks like you know what you want  the 604 is what I picked, too, because 120 degree spill was better than the 90 degree flood of the 600 for my application. I figured I could put some DC Fix-It on the lens of the 604 if I wanted full frosted lens. I have a Sc600w MKIV if I need to get some lumens down range, so it and the 604 are a marriage made in heaven.
> 
> Good luck on your decision, and let us know what you end up choosing!



FYI, I doubt the DC-Fix will modify the beam at all, it will definitely reduce the output, but since the beam is already so diffuse, so why diffuse it some more?

People typically put the DC-Fix on the regular spot/spill models, eg. H600c to make it an H600"F"c. 

I have an H53c and H53Fc, and with DC-Fix, the H53c is pretty close to the H53Fc. DC-Fix, or a white latex glove, over top of an H53Fc will be closer to an H503c.


----------



## Cpl S

I often use the headlamp for very upclose work, and I don't want any hotspot at all, so the frosted lens helps to further eliminate that for me. This is one of the reasons my Nitecore D10's with the water bottle caps on the ends were so beloved. I just got tired of putting metal between my teeth.


----------



## likethevegetable

Cpl S said:


> I often use the headlamp for very upclose work, and I don't want any hotspot at all, so the frosted lens helps to further eliminate that for me. This is one of the reasons my Nitecore D10's with the water bottle caps on the ends were so beloved. I just got tired of putting metal between my teeth.



Ahh I see, we're talking very up close. I'm a bit surprised that you can distinguish the hot spot.

If you ever get sick of removing and reapplying the DC-Fix, I highly recommend this:


----------



## Cpl S

I'll definitely try the finger condoms


----------



## LogansRun

likethevegetable said:


> Ahh I see, we're talking very up close. I'm a bit surprised that you can distinguish the hot spot.
> 
> If you ever get sick of removing and reapplying the DC-Fix, I highly recommend this:


Hmm... never would have considered this. Is the light very diffused? What about heat build-up? Would it melt it?


----------



## NPL

Any H600c or H600d owners out there that can share info on beam and tint or beamshots? Very curious how it compares to their lightly frosted brothers.


----------



## h17

Hello,

My first post here.



NPL said:


> Any H600c or H600d owners out there that can share info on beam and tint or beamshots? Very curious how it compares to their lightly frosted brothers.



Bought one a week ago (Canadian, ordered to be shipped to US). Just came back from the short hike in complete darkness, the weather was foggy with strong rain. I also own H51w (for 6 years, I attached to it Fenix Diffuser Lens AD401 - well know mod for this flashlight) so I took it with me as well.
First of all, I did not make any pictures, managed to drop the phone in the puddle since I was in gloves. Secondly, H600C has much more power comparing to H51w and this is not a surprise. What is the big surprise to me is how wide the beam of H600C is - this is really _wide. LZ web site says: 

********************
Beam Type


17 degree hot spot 
80 degree spill

Well, I don't know about 80 degrees, to me it looks like 170 degrees meaning that the throw distance is much less than I expected. I don't think that this flashlight will be my favorite one for hiking and if I would live in US then most likely I would send it back to ZL and tried a different model. So, if you are thinking about getting H600c Mk IV 18650 XHP50.2 4000K High CRI Headlamp you should take it into consideration.

One more thing to mention - you might want to check the following link
https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/9u9rge/zebralight_h600fc_mkiv_vs_h600c_mkiv_for_offtrail/

which basically confirms my observations.


----------



## NPL

Thanks for chiming in and too bad you don't like it. If you want more throw, the h600w xhp35 is probably a better option. Is there alot if variation in tint across the beam of the h600c?


----------



## h17

NPL said:


> Thanks for chiming in and too bad you don't like it. If you want more throw, the h600w xhp35 is probably a better option. Is there alot if variation in tint across the beam of the h600c?



Actually I did not say that I did no like it, I said I was surprised. Basically that surprise was the result of my failure to do the homework before ordering this particular model. I read that High CRI is great for true color reproduction, I knew that the light would be yellowish since this is 4000K CCT FL, I also read that due to High CRI the efficiency will be 10%-15% less in comparison with cool white but in reality I simply did not know what would it give (all factors combined) in real world test. May be if I could find some beamshots and read some reviews when I would be more prepared for the first usage of this particular FL.
All I all, since I am going to keep it I will definitely find a use for the FL and most likely it will be something like working on my car in the garage or on different electronics projects when extra light is always beneficial. 

To answer your question: I did not notice any variations in tint across the beam, it is steady yellowish (obviously, brighter in the center but still the same color). So, no rainbow on the (reasonably) )white wall of my garage or other artifacts. 

And finally: I dont know if I am allowed to post here links to different FL related sites but I will try. There is a web site that allows you to see beamshots for ZEBRALIGHT H600FC MK4, which is also High CRI, 4000K - I found it after I already ordered my FL. Check it out and you will see what I mean by saying that the light is yellowish:

http://fonarevka.ru/


Switch interface to English, click on "Search flashlights in the database", select "ZEBRALIGHT H600FC MK4" -> "Cave". Now you can choose different levels (High, Mid, Low) and check the picture. My h600c is very close (if not identical) to the shown beam pattern and the color.

Have a good weekend.


----------



## NPL

Thanks H17. Glad to hear you don't dislike it and didn't mean to make any assumptions. I previously owned the h600fc but wanted more throw out of the light. The h600w I used to have had a great balance of throw and spill but it was low CRI.


----------



## h17

likethevegetable said:


> Ahh I see, we're talking very up close. I'm a bit surprised that you can distinguish the hot spot.
> 
> If you ever get sick of removing and reapplying the DC-Fix, I highly recommend this:




This is my variant, may be not so sexy but still pretty functional:


----------



## likethevegetable

Pretty darn cool!


----------



## waloshin

Just purchased sn H600fc mk4!


----------



## Stefano

Today I received an H604c.
I wanted to buy it in 2018 but I read on this forum some problems at the PID and I decided to wait for it to become stable.

For the moment only a small test at home, in the garden and in the parking lot but they are really very impressed.
The tint is beatiful and this is definitely the most beautiful Headlamp I've ever bought.

I tried to make a comparison of the colors with my old H602w and there is a great difference.
I like the new interface and this light is really powerful, I'm really happy with the money I spent.

I took a very hasty photo at home, it is taken at the L1 level because with more light I can not take pictures so close.
It shows the difference between H602w and H604c.

Live and with more light the difference is more evident than in the picture.





[/IMG]






[/IMG]



Next pics: (slow animated GIF) H602w vs H604c (with H2 set to 620 and 579 lumens)




[/IMG]



Today I'm too tired but in the coming days I'll try to take some pictures or comparative videos (H602w vs H603w vs H604c)


----------



## NPL

Looking forward to this. There has been little info on this model to date.


----------



## tech25

Haven’t seen many recent posts from you Stefano. It’s good to see you back! I have seen all your reviews on the previous Zebralights, they were very helpful in choosing which ones to get- thank you!


----------



## Stefano

tech25 said:


> Haven’t seen many recent posts from you Stefano. It’s good to see you back! I have seen all your reviews on the previous Zebralights, they were very helpful in choosing which ones to get- thank you!



Yes, I have long been away from every forum.
Thank you for your appreciation.
Thanks also to the user Curious and his tests, thanks to it I decided that I could finally buy a new light series MKIV


----------



## Stefano

Sorry for the moment I can not take pictures in a better place.
This is my old (but still valid) H602w vs new H604c - it has a nice tint but compared to the new model it looks cool.

The new model H604c has about 600 lumens more and the difference is noticeably visible.
In comparison I did not use my H603w because it is carefully packed in an earthquake kit but maybe in the next photos I will use it too.




[/IMG]


----------



## Stefano

Very short video
Old Zebralight H602w (led XM-L2 - 4400 K - 1010 lm) vs new Zebralight H604c (led XHP50.2 - 4000 K - Hi CRI - 1616 lm) 

The first headlamp shown in the video is the H602w - last is H604c (from 0,20 seconds you can see H604c)


----------



## SKV89

Took readings for a few Armytek Wizards and compared it with the Zebralight H600fc MKIV. Output taken at 2s after turn-on with the Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights. Spectrometer used is a Sekonic C-800-U.


Armytek Wizard Pro XHP50 WW (2020)H21,521 lumens3988K-0.0018 DUV82.9 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.0020.1 R965.4 R1280 Rf100 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro XHP50 WW (2020)H1788 lumens3898K-0.0008 DUV83.8 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.0023.0 R964.9 R1282 Rf100 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro XHP50 WW (2020)M2147 lumens3785K0.0008 DUV84.7 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.0025.1 R963.4 R1283 Rf99 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro XHP50 WW (2020)M134 lumens3739K0.0010 DUV84.9 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.9725.5 R963.1 R1284 Rf99 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro XHP50 WW (2020)L34 lumens3734K0.0012 DUV85.2 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.9726.2 R963.0 R1284 Rf99 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro Nichia 144A 90CRIH21,388 lumens4583K-0.0016 DUV92.9 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.0065.2 R973.9 R1288 Rf97 Rgincluded battery or VTC6AArmytek Wizard Pro Nichia 144A 90CRIH1684 lumens4458K0.0002 DUV93.4 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.0068.1 R972.8 R1289 Rf97 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro Nichia 144A 90CRIM2128 lumens4337K0.0009 DUV94.0 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.0072.9 R971.4 R1288 Rf97 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro Nichia 144A 90CRIM129 lumens4292K0.0009 DUV94.2 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.0074.5 R971.3 R1288 Rf96 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro Nichia 144A 90CRIL33 lumens4295K0.0002 DUV94.4 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.0076.7 R971.4 R1288 Rf96 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro Nichia 144A 90CRI 2nd UnitH21,339 lumens4583K-0.0012 DUV92.5 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.0063.5 R973.0 R1288 Rf96 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro v3 XP-L WWTurbo954 lumens3986K0.0010 DUV73.9 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.00-12.5 R946.4 R1271 Rf98 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro v3 XP-L WWH3342 lumens3868K0.0041 DUV74.5 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.98-12.5 R944.2 R1273 Rf97 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro v3 XP-L WWH2149 lumens3824K0.0052 DUV74.8 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.95-13.0 R943.6 R1274 Rf97 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro v3 XP-L WWH150 lumens3816K0.0062 DUV75.1 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.92-12.9 R942.9 R1275 Rf96 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro v3 XP-L WWL35 lumens3807K0.0073 DUV75.1 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.87-14.3 R942.1 R1276 Rf95 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro v3 XP-L WWL21 lumens3783K0.0073 DUV75.1 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.86-14.2 R941.9 R1276 Rf95 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Pro v3 XP-L WWL10 lumens3887K0.0066 DUV75.5 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.95-12.6 R942.6 R1276 Rf96 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Magnet USB XP-L WWTurbo1,010 lumens4100K-0.0026 DUV72.9 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.00-17.0 R944.4 R1269 Rf98 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Magnet USB XP-L WWMode 5348 lumens4013K0.0001 DUV72.9 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.00-19.4 R942.2 R1270 Rf97 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Magnet USB XP-L WWMode 4155 lumens3973K0.0014 DUV73.0 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.00-20.3 R941.2 R1271 Rf96 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Magnet USB XP-L WWMode 332 lumens3934K0.0028 DUV72.9 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.00-21.9 R939.7 R1272 Rf96 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Magnet USB XP-L WWMode 22 lumens3962K0.0022 DUV73.3 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.00-20.9 R940.1 R1272 Rf96 Rgincluded batteryArmytek Wizard Magnet USB XP-L WWMode 10 lumens3935K0.0025 DUV73.3 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.00-20.8 R939.8 R1272 Rf96 Rgincluded batteryZebralight H600fc MKIVH11,398 lumens4038K-0.0003 DUV91.3 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 1.0060.0 R972.2 R1289 Rf100 RgNCR18650GA or VTC6AZebralight H600fc MKIVH2502 lumens3952K0.0011 DUV92.2 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.9964.1 R970.5 R1289 Rf99 RgNCR18650GAZebralight H600fc MKIVM1112 lumens3851K0.0017 DUV93.0 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.9666.6 R969.8 R1289 Rf98 RgNCR18650GAZebralight H600fc MKIVM222 lumens3802K0.0024 DUV93.2 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.9266.9 R969.8 R1289 Rf98 RgNCR18650GAZebralight H600fc MKIVL13 lumens3770K0.0026 DUV93.1 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.9166.4 R969.7 R1289 Rf97 RgNCR18650GAZebralight H600fc MKIVL20 lumens3773K0.0023 DUV93.2 CRIBlue light relative amplitude 0.9166.4 R969.7 R1289 Rf97 RgNCR18650GA


Armytek very sneakily upgraded the Wizard Pro WW to a 4000k 80CRI emitter, which of course is to my delightful surprise. In the past it is said to use a 3500K 70CRI emitter. Nowhere on Armytek's website did they mention anything about an 80CRI emitter. Now I'm wondering if it is still an XHP50 or is it now an XHP50.2. The Wizard Pro WW also happens to be my favorite headlamp from the above because the CCT and tint looks the best and I find that more important than a 10 CRI difference. This unit was bought from Armytekstore.com and shipped from Canada.

I also like the ZL H600fc very much mainly for its super small size and supposedly better thermal regulation than most flashlights. The tint is actually not overly green unlike past Zebralights that I had to return. The tint could have been rosier but with Zebralight, and even Armytek to a certain extent, its a tint lottery and I'm glad at least this unit is on the BBL and not above when on max output. It lacks usb recharge and doesn't have a tail magnet like the Wizard Pros but the small size makes it so easy to pocket. The Wizards do look a lot better aesthetically though IMO.

The Wizard Pro Nichia 144A is nice too but after side by side comparison with the Pro WW 80CRI, I find that I like the 4000k more. Both Nichia units I bought have similar tint but one is 50 lumens brighter than the other. I haven't tested whether these units have LVP or retain driver problems reported in reviews of the prototype. The units were bought from Armytek.com, which originally indicated shipping from China but they later changed it to shipping from Canada I guess because of either CNY or the novelcorona virus.

Here is a comparison of the measured output vs rated max output:
Armytek Wizard Pro WW - 1521 lm vs 1675 lm (91% of rating)
Armytek Wizard Pro Nichia 144A 90CRI - 1388 lm vs 1400 lm (99% of rating)
Armytek Wizard Pro v3 XP-L WW (white button) - 954 lm vs 930 lm (103% of rating)
Armytek Wizard Pro v3 XP-L WW (yellow button) magnet usb - 1010 lm vs 930 lm (109% of rating)
Zebralight H600fc MKIV - 1398 lm vs 1568 lm (89% of rating)

I'm surprised Armytek's ratings are so honest with the Wizards. I think some of their other models didn't measure that close to rating but I'll check later. I'm also surprised the H600fc did not measure as far below spec as I expected because I remember past Zebralights I measured were more like 20% below spec. However keep in mind my lumens were measured 2s from turn-on instead of ANSI standard 30s.


----------



## SKV89

I found some interesting info to add. The claims of Zebralights being super efficient are unsubstantiated. From Maukka's testing, Zebralight's efficiency is average at best.








Maukka tested the H600fc MKIV with an efficiency of 89lm/w whereas the 90CRI Wuben TO56R has an efficiency of 125lm/w. The Olight H2R 4000K 70CRI is 135lm/w and the new Olight Perun is even more efficient.






In terms of driver efficiency Zebralight is a far ways from the level of Olight and Fenix. Though with the latter two, you are stuck with ugly (IMO) CW :sick2: emitter options and no HI CRI. To me what makes Zebralight special is the extremely compact unibody design and HI CRI options.


----------



## Stefano

Thanks for your comments and for the details provided.
Unfortunately I can't say anything because I don't have suitable instrumentation.
In the tab I see you say Armytek Wizard Pro v3 XP-L WW Turbo = 954 lm
Did you mean to write Armytek Wizard "Regular" XP-L (not Pro)?


Regarding Wizard Pro XHP50 WW I bought a specimen in may 2017 or 2018 (I can't remember exactly the year) it was disappointing and I sent it back immediately (very little power, much lower than declared)
I continued to successfully use the "Regular" XP-L Wizard (great Headlamp!)
I purchased the Wizard Pro version again at the end of 2019 and this time it is perfect, I was impressed with the performance and I am currently using it in my walks in the woods.
I did not understand if the old specimen was problematic or if Armytek has made improvements over time.


I bought the H600Fc MKIV in 2019 but due to health problems it has remained practically unused.
At the end of the year I made a very short comparison between Wizard and H600 Fc and the Wizard was the brightest but this is understandable because the Zebralight H600 Fc is Hi Cri.
Unfortunately I could not make other comparisons, I realized that my H600Fc had an abnormal parasitic discharge and I sent it back to Zebralight.
It is in China but cannot be delivered due to the coronavirus (factory closed), I am afraid that it can be sent back.
Sometimes difficult to make comparisons because there may be differences in spillage between some specimens.
The correct comparison would be between Wizard Pro Nichia and H600Fc.

Other: sorry for the missing images on this page, TinyPic has closed and I cannot find the backups of the images.


----------



## NPL

SKV89 said:


> I found some interesting info to add. The claims of Zebralights being super efficient are unsubstantiated. From Maukka's testing, Zebralight's efficiency is average at best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maukka tested the H600fc MKIV with an efficiency of 89lm/w whereas the 90CRI Wuben TO56R has an efficiency of 125lm/w. The Olight H2R 4000K 70CRI is 135lm/w and the new Olight Perun is even more efficient.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of driver efficiency Zebralight is a far ways from the level of Olight and Fenix. Though with the latter two, you are stuck with ugly (IMO) CW :sick2: emitter options and no HI CRI. To me what makes Zebralight special is the extremely compact unibody design and HI CRI options.


You can't really compare driver efficiency if the LED configuration and output levels are not the same. The Wuben TO50r uses four LEDs, so each one isn't driven as hard, and the lh351d is known to be very bright for a high CRI LED. Then the lumen/w comparison isn't fair with too many changing variables, one being lower CRI, and different output compared to the Zebralight, so a comparison cannot be drawn there. With 90 CRI LEDs usually being about 30% less efficient than the 70 CRI counterpart, the Zebralight h600fc seems to have a similar efficiency as the as the Olight or Armytek.

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## SKV89

When I bough it, seller labeled it as Pro but nowhere on the light says pro so I don't know for sure. It has the white button. I just added testing for a non pro XP-L with yellow button and magnet usb. It has better tint and brighter.

I saw your video comparison between the H600fc MK4 vs the Wizard Pro XHP50 WW and the H600fc had noticeably rosier tint than the Wizard. I wish my H600fc had that kind of tint. You won the tint lottery on that one. Hope ZL sends back the same unit repaired instead of sending you a new unit that might have worse tint.



Stefano said:


> Thanks for your comments and for the details provided.
> Unfortunately I can't say anything because I don't have suitable instrumentation.
> In the tab I see you say Armytek Wizard Pro v3 XP-L WW Turbo = 954 lm
> Did you mean to write Armytek Wizard "Regular" XP-L (not Pro)?
> 
> 
> Regarding Wizard Pro XHP50 WW I bought a specimen in may 2017 or 2018 (I can't remember exactly the year) it was disappointing and I sent it back immediately (very little power, much lower than declared)
> I continued to successfully use the "Regular" XP-L Wizard (great Headlamp!)
> I purchased the Wizard Pro version again at the end of 2019 and this time it is perfect, I was impressed with the performance and I am currently using it in my walks in the woods.
> I did not understand if the old specimen was problematic or if Armytek has made improvements over time.
> 
> 
> I bought the H600Fc MKIV in 2019 but due to health problems it has remained practically unused.
> At the end of the year I made a very short comparison between Wizard and H600 Fc and the Wizard was the brightest but this is understandable because the Zebralight H600 Fc is Hi Cri.
> Unfortunately I could not make other comparisons, I realized that my H600Fc had an abnormal parasitic discharge and I sent it back to Zebralight.
> It is in China but cannot be delivered due to the coronavirus (factory closed), I am afraid that it can be sent back.
> Sometimes difficult to make comparisons because there may be differences in spillage between some specimens.
> The correct comparison would be between Wizard Pro Nichia and H600Fc.
> 
> Other: sorry for the missing images on this page, TinyPic has closed and I cannot find the backups of the images.


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## SKV89

Problem is the drivers between flashlights don't have equal output modes to compare so we can only only rely on whatever graphs and efficiency measurements reviewers provide. Also besides Maukka, I don't think anyone else does efficiency measurements. Therefore we can only get a rough comparison to get a general idea. I personally think the ZL h600fc mk4 driver may be even more efficient than the Wizard Pro XHP50 because Maukka tested the 70CRI version whereas ZL uses a 90CRI emitter. However, I doubt the H600fc driver is as efficient as the Olight driver even if Olight didn't have the 30% advantage. The H2R was sustaining 600 lumens whereas the H600fc was sustaining 400 lumens in that graph and the Olight efficiency was still 52% higher.

I don't know what is more efficient, 4x LH351D 90CRI or the XHP50.2 90CRI with quad dies. I just felt 400lumens and 300 lumens was in a similar enough range for a rough comparison.

Maukka just informed me that the ZL SC64c XP-L2 has an efficient driver. I'm wondering if ZL's 3V drivers are better than their boost drivers relative to the competition. Too bad the tint on the SC64c or any light with the XP-L2 90CRI emitter is so greenish so I'm only interested in their XHP lights.



NPL said:


> You can't really compare driver efficiency if the LED configuration and output levels are not the same. The Wuben TO50r uses four LEDs, so each one isn't driven as hard, and the lh351d is known to be very bright for a high CRI LED. Then the lumen/w comparison isn't fair with too many changing variables, one being lower CRI, and different output compared to the Zebralight, so a comparison cannot be drawn there. With 90 CRI LEDs usually being about 30% less efficient than the 70 CRI counterpart, the Zebralight h600fc seems to have a similar efficiency as the as the Olight or Armytek.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Candlepowerforums mobile app


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## Stefano

I didn't know about lottery tint on XHP50.
I bought three Zebralights with this led and all of them have a wonderful tint.
The defective light was finally delivered today, I wrote a little while ago asking if it will be replaced or repaired.

I would also love to know if the Wizard Pro I own is XHP50 or XHP50.2, I should look carefully at the box or the light to see if there is any identification number to ask for customer service.


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## Keitho

Re: the efficiency discussion above, I tend to take efficiency calculations with a grain of salt. I tried to do my own a few times, and pretty quickly realized the fallacy that is imbedded into lumens/W, lumen-hr./W, lumen-hr/gram, etc. kinds of calculations: they all assume that every lumen is equally important. But, in my experience, not every lumen is created equal. I have a great amount of respect for the work that Maukka does, which gives us very important information about the driver performance. But, the driver is part of a lighting system.

So, I leave the very interesting component testing to amazing people like Maukka, and do my own use-case-specific system level testing of my own lights. It is pretty simple--set a test light at the brightness required for a particular task (my favorite is cycling at night; second favorite is hiking at night), and see how long it lasts. I've had "efficient" lights run out quickly, because the beam pattern wasn't suited to the task, and required a higher setting. My anecdotal conclusion is that a beam pattern suited to the task is much more important than driver efficiency. CRI and tint seem to also play a part in system efficiency--I don't feel like I need a warmer, higher-CRI light quite as bright in order to distinguish features on the street or trail. My basic conclusion--a low-CRI, bluish lumen that doesn't go where I need it is much less valuable than a higher-CRI, warm lumen that goes where I want it. That's why there's an army of HDS fans with 250-lumen lights that outperform many higher-lumen lights for some tasks--its that awesome HDS beam.

With all that said, for my specific use case, with my uncalibrated eye and preferences, and with the lights that I've tried, I haven't found anything more efficient than my current ZL's (H600c IV and SC700d)--they both have runtimes that shock me regularly. I run my H600c IV in the "579 lumen" mode most often while cycling, and get about 1:45 in 10-deg-F and right around 2 hours when its warmer, with my ageing workforce of 18650GA's. I'm probably getting 9 W-h or less out of those cells at that current, and probably average 450 OTF lumens, so that puts the efficiency at very roughly 100 high-CRI OTF lumens per W, which is what I'd expect from a high-end driver, and pleases me greatly mostly because of the beam, tint, and CRI.


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## noboneshotdog

I just pulled the trigger on an H604W. Are people having positive experiences with this light? Has the pid problem been resolved and is the tint ok?


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