# 18650 Battery and Charger Recommendation



## bradthebold

Hi, I am getting an Armytek Wizard Pro headlamp and am wondering what the most useful and safe batteries would be. It comes with 1 3100mah unprotected Panasonic and a WF139 charger.

The best prices I could find are: 
Unprotected Panasonic 3100 - $12.74/pair
Unprotected Panasonic 3400 - $14.79/pr
Protected Eagletac 3100 - $32/pr on ebay
Protected Eagletac 3400 - $36/pr on ebay

The protected versions cost more than double and are 3mm longer that may cause issues in some lights. The Armytek has over discharge protection, so should I still get protected batteries for it?

If I get another light that doesn't have discharge protection, would it be dangerous to use unprotected cells if you took them out and charged them when the light started to dim? Or should you just always use protected batteries in unprotected lights?

Then for a charger I have narrowed it down to the $17 cottonpicker's basic charger or the $50 Xtar VP1, though I am open to any suggestions. I have a DMM to check voltages and don't think I will care about fast charging or charging multiple at a time. I'm guessing I'd be lucky to use it once a month. Will the cottonpicker's charger (or any other cheaper one) charge safely and reliably?


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## mattheww50

I guess the question really revolves around 'other' plans you may have. If the single cell Armytek Wizard Pro is going to be your only 18650 device, an unprotected 3100mAh or 3400mAh cell is fine, and 
Cottonpicker's charger is kind of overkill. An Intellicharger I2 or I4 is about half the price, should work just as well. You might also want to look at the XTAR SP2 charger, which is also very good, but without
the visual effects of the VP1.

However if you plan on adding other Li-Ion devices to your stable at some point, you are probably going to want the cells to be interchangeable. If you have any devices that use more than 1 cell, you are
going to want protected cells, and probably want a charger with a higher charging current. Takes a long time to charge a 3400 mAh cell at 375 ma! 

Whose protected cell you buy doesn't matter a whole lot, as long as there is a Panasonic cell inside (Panasonic only makes the battery proper, the protection PCB and packaging is done by someone else). You pay a premium for flashlight maker branded cells. They have to be double 'marked up', since the flashlight maker has to buy them from the company that adds the protection, and they have to buy the cells from the cell manufacturer. The reality is you should be able to find 3100 mAh protected Panasonic cells for less than $25/pair. What you do need to watch out for with protected cells is the actual size. The 18650 is nominally 65mm long. With protection it is longer, there are some protected 18650's out there that are actually 70mm long, and not all battery carriers can handle a 70mm long 18650. The 3400mAh cells tend to have a slightly larger diameter than the 3100's, and again, depending upon the design of the device, may not fit where 3100mAh cells are in use today.

I use protected Panasonic 3100mAh cells exclusively. While I own a V2 Intellicharger I4, I don't use it that much. With all 4 bays in use, it takes quite a while to fully charge 3100mAh cells. I just bought a VP1 in part to address that issue, although I really wish they would make a 4 bay version of the VP1


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## Knight_Light

bradthebold said:


> The best prices I could find are:
> Unprotected Panasonic 3100 - $12.74/pair
> Unprotected Panasonic 3400 - $14.79/pr
> Protected Eagletac 3100 - $32/pr on ebay
> Protected Eagletac 3400 - $36/pr on ebay
> 
> The protected versions cost more than double and are 3mm longer that may cause issues in some lights. The Armytek has over discharge protection, so should I still get protected batteries for it?
> 
> If I get another light that doesn't have discharge protection, would it be dangerous to use unprotected cells if you took them out and charged them when the light started to dim? Or should you just always use protected batteries in unprotected lights?
> 
> Then for a charger I have narrowed it down to the $17 cottonpicker's basic charger or the $50 Xtar VP1, though I am open to any suggestions. I have a DMM to check voltages and don't think I will care about fast charging or charging multiple at a time. I'm guessing I'd be lucky to use it once a month. Will the cottonpicker's charger (or any other cheaper one) charge safely and reliably?


 
Continuing our discussion from the previous thread.

Why don’t you just get these protected cells “Panasonic NCR18650A 18650 3100mAh 3.7V Protected Rechargeable Li-ion Batteries (2-Pack)” FASTTECH SKU 1315402 $17.08 for 2

And you can get this charger if you want to save some money. “Miller ML-102 Universal USB Smart Charger (Version 3)” FASTTECH SKU 1158900 $7.47


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## bradthebold

Sorry, I left out my future plans. Right now, I don't plan on getting another light soon. I was thinking about just getting a cheap 18650 light, but the cheapest decent light is at least $50, so I'll probably just wait for now. That is the main reason I was concerned about the protected batteries, for other potential lights. 

The reason I chose the Eagletacs for comparison was because they are the shortest I've seen at 68mm and the only protected cells I've seen that fit in a ZL H600 for example. They are pretty expensive though. The protected 3400mah Panasonics on fasttech are only $16.21 a pair, but they're 69.4mm long. They would be disappointing to get if they didn't fit in any lights. I think they would fit in the Wizard without issue though, if I should use those instead of the unprotected version. That's only a few dollars difference. What I was thinking was I would just get the cheap $13-15/pair unprotected batteries now and deal with protected ones later if I need, assuming the Wizard and charger would be safe with unprotected cells.

As for the charger, I was shied away from the Intellicharger by another member due to mixed reviews and out of spec termination voltages. From my reading it seems like a decent charger, just not the best. It is half the price of the VP1 though. The basic Cottonpicker's charger I was looking at is only $17 though, the cheapest of anything, without the voltage meter. It's 700ma. I'm open to anything though and just looking for the cheapest charger that uses the right algorithms and won't overcharge though because I don't think I'll be using it that often to need superfast charging or a display.


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## TheSpicyTuna

I'm a pretty new guy and I'm planning to get the Xtar Vp1 to charge my 18650's. My newness previously stated, I will also be going with protected cells.


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## Sagebrush

Sanyo UR18650F 2600mAh Protected is my preference. $11.03 for two great high quality cells shipped from FastTech. They also have NCR18650B 3400's for $17 per set. Haven't found a better source for batteries anywhere. I have an I-4 charger and it terminates at 4.18, its a good budget unit, works fine and it can charge your AA's and such.


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## bradthebold

Panasonic doesn't make protected batteries though, do they? So who is adding the protection to the fasttech cells for so cheap? They're also pretty long and wouldn't fit some lights, thought they should work in mine if they're better than the unprotected ones.

I've seen mixed reports about the i4. The idea is great. HKJ says it uses CC/CV charging for lithiums, but it doesn't use -dv/dt termination for NiMH. How does that affect the termination, life span, etc of Eneloops if it doesn't use the proper algorithm. I would like to get some Eneloops as well, but it seems like no one uses this charger for that. And I don't know why people say bad things about the i4 if it uses proper termination for the lithiums though.


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## ChrisGarrett

I've got two unprotected Pannie 3100s and two protected EagleTac 3100s for my ZL 600 and Fenix PD32. I use the Xtar WP2 II that I paid $18 shipped and they all work fine.

The WP2 II will only charge at 1A and 500mA, but that's fine for my needs. It does have a 5v/500mA USB OUTPUT, so you can charge some stuff up with a full cell. It gets a pretty good rating from HKJ and its big flaw is, is that it doesn't quite charge cells up to 100%, or 4.20v. It can, but not always. This is actually a good thing, as it extends cell life a little bit.

Chris


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## New-XMLight

bradthebold said:


> [...]and am wondering what the most useful and safe batteries would be.



For "safe batteries" i would recommend "protected" batteries. I only use "protected" ones. 
I wanna feel "save" and have reliable and easy-care batteries... 

Because of the better voltage level when dischargin i prefered "2600mAh" for my Niteye MSC20. But MSC20 is a smaller one.
If you could spend some more money there are really good 3400mAh protected with Panasonic NCR18650B)

br

PS.: As charger i also own the XTAR WP2 II.


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## Sukram

New-XMLight said:


> For "safe batteries" i would recommend "protected" batteries. I only use "protected" ones.
> I wanna feel "save" and have reliable and easy-care batteries...
> 
> Because of the better voltage level when dischargin i prefered "2600mAh" for my Niteye MSC20. But MSC20 is a smaller one.
> If you could spend some more money there are really good 3400mAh protected with Panasonic NCR18650B)
> 
> br
> 
> PS.: As charger i also own the XTAR WP2 II.



Usually I use protected batteries in my lights but in my predator I can use unprotected batteries because of built-in battery protection. I think it depends on your light and its electronics.


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## New-XMLight

Sukram said:


> I think it depends on your light and its electronics.



...and your mindset.

I like double check / safety and even if my flashlight has built-in protection i use protected batteries.
But maybe that's kind of :duh2:

greetz


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## bradthebold

Does anyone know who adds the protection to the Fasttech Panasonics and if they're quality or not? They seem to be the cheapest protected cells by far.

Edit: Plus the protected flat-top 3100s are only 68.5mm long, which seems decently shorted for a protected cell I think.


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## Labrador72

bradthebold said:


> Does anyone know who adds the protection to the Fasttech Panasonics and if they're quality or not? They seem to be the cheapest protected cells by far.



I am curious to know that too! I have seen a couple of retailers selling those cells in Europe too so I'm inclined to think it's not Fasttech who adds the protection.


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## bradthebold

So I'm still wondering about the quality of the Fasttech protected Panasonics, are they good quality?

Disregarding the higher charging rate and voltage meter of the VP1, is the VP1 any better than the intellicharger? Is there anything wrong with the intellicharger?

How hard on Eneloops is the intellicharger since it doesn't use the correct termination algorithm?


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## DellSuperman

bradthebold said:


> So I'm still wondering about the quality of the Fasttech protected Panasonics, are they good quality?



So far all my experiences with FastTech cells have been positive. 
Sanyo, Panasonic & even the NiteCore (which was actually Samsung cells underneath) 

- JonK


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## bradthebold

Do you mean you have the protected cells? The unprotected ones look great, just not sure about the protected ones since they dont' have any info.


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## TheRealDoodle

Callie's Kustoms 3400 mah protected cells, $12 and some change on their website ... Those are the best batteries I've ever had. As for chargers whoever mentioned the xtar wp6 II above is a genius!


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## Sagebrush

I still think the FastTech NCR18650B's are awesome. Great price, great performance. I see no reason to use anything else if you want and can fit the suckers. I also own the Sanyo protected 2600's. For around $5 per 18650 they can not be beat currently. For the price and the performance I mainly run the Sanyo's. Not interested in buying relabled cells for more money.


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## Mass. Wine Guy

I just bought this Ultrafire light: http://www.manafont.com/product_info...-18650-p-13366

Does anyone know of any current good deals on good 18650 batteries?

It's my first non-AA flashlight and I need to buy a couple of good quality batteries. Orbotronic, Panasonic and Ampmax all get good comments. I found this charger and battery set on eBay. I like the charger, but are Soshine batteries ok?:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221204479815...84.m1438.l2649

There's another auction for the same charger except for four battery charging compartments.

I'll check out the Sanyo batteries, too.

Thanks very much.


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## peterlonz

I am fairly new to this technology but own three LED flashlights running Li-ion 1865 batteries.
I have discovered some issues that affect me & may be of interest to others.
1) I can't now recall which (or if any) of my flashlights features low voltage protection circuitry, that's stuff that 18 months down the track is hard to remember, especially as some do & some dont!
2) So ideally you would want protected batteries. But if you use your flashlight regularly or very irregularly you will probably get into the habit of regular charging or regular checking so then who needs "protected"? Bear in mind the extra length of protected batteries is itself a problem, they need forcing to fit my flashlights.
3) Using Li-ion batteries intelligently requires you to own a decent quality Digital Multi Meter (DMM). That's the only way you can know for sure the cut off charger voltage & the point at which to recharge batteries. Remember the cheaper chargers are not very reliable & can easily overcharge. I saw 4.27V once & still charging!
4) Regarding choice of battery brand I'd accept the general advice here, but remember batteries are relatively expensive so you need a quality charger that is known to be reliable, so don't buy Soshine or rubbish like that.
If you know you can depend on your charger you just pop the batteries in & charge & forget.


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## Mass. Wine Guy

peterlonz said:


> Regarding choice of battery brand I'd accept the general advice here, but remember batteries are relatively expensive so you need a quality charger that is known to be reliable, so don't buy Soshine or rubbish like that. If you know you can depend on your charger you just pop the batteries in & charge & forget.



There sure is a ton of cheap junk out there. Is Ultrafire a safe, decent charger? I found this on their site:

http://www.ultrafire-shop.net/UltraFire_Shop.php?view=productPage&product=30&category=5#

What is a good quality, safe charger I should consider for my 18650 batteries?


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## bradthebold

Mass. Wine Guy said:


> There sure is a ton of cheap junk out there. Is Ultrafire a safe, decent charger? I found this on their site:
> 
> http://www.ultrafire-shop.net/UltraFire_Shop.php?view=productPage&product=30&category=5#
> 
> What is a good quality, safe charger I should consider for my 18650 batteries?



Get an Xtar charger, they are of the best. The VP1 has a built-in voltage meter as well. Fasttech has the cheapest batteries by far. They have some mystery protected Panasonics, but I haven't seen any comments about their reliability yet.


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## Mass. Wine Guy

I ordered a pair of those Panasonics, so I guess I'll be able to comment about them soon. Yes, that Xstar VP1 does seem good. But I can't realy afford $50 right now. What is the next best Xstar charger? Thanks.


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## ChrisGarrett

Mass. Wine Guy said:


> I ordered a pair of those Panasonics, so I guess I'll be able to comment about them soon. Yes, that Xstar VP1 does seem good. But I can't realy afford $50 right now. What is the next best Xstar charger? Thanks.



You should be able to find the Xtar WP2 II for ~$22 on Ebay. I've used this charger for well over a year and it's not bad. It only charges at 500mA and 1A, but it has a USB OUT at 5v/500mA for charging up USB devices and the SP1/VP1 do not have this feature.

Chris


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## kawaii433

TheSpicyTuna said:


> I'm a pretty new guy and I'm planning to get the Xtar Vp1 to charge my 18650's. My newness previously stated, I will also be going with protected cells.



That's the charger I've been using for awhile now. So far, I like it, especially since the channels are independent.


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## Snareman

*Which 18650 to get?*

I've read various things and reviews and am trying to sort out which 18650 batteries to get for my incoming 3600 lumen Thrunite TN30. First time buying 18650's

From reading Selfbuilt's review
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...0)-RUNTIMES-VIDEO-OUTDOOR-BEAMSHOTS-and-more!
it sounds like pretty much any will work. 

How about regular vs rechargeable? I have a ton of regular CR123s and figured maybe I'd look into some rechargeables if I ever go through them all. But do you recommend the RC 18650s? I don't see myself using this light a ton ro its probably going to sit a lot if that matters. I also see recommending staying with brands like Sanyo or Panasonic. 

Anyway, any thoughts would be helpful.


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## kj2

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*

More info on batteries can be found here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?9-Flashlight-Electronics-Batteries-Included


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## Snareman

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*

Thanks. I looked for a battery forum but missed that one somehow.


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## Snareman

*Which 18650 to get?*

I've read various things and reviews and am trying to sort out which 18650 batteries to get for my incoming 3600 lumen Thrunite TN30. Its my first time buying 18650's

From reading Selfbuilt's review
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...HOTS-and-more!
it sounds like pretty much any will work. 

How about regular vs rechargeable? I have a ton of regular CR123s and figured maybe I'd look into some rechargeables if I ever go through them all. But do you recommend the RC 18650s? I don't see myself using this light a ton ro its probably going to sit a lot if that matters. I also see recommending staying with brands like Sanyo or Panasonic. 

Anyway, any thoughts would be helpful. Just looking for a simple answer to cut through all of the tons of info out there that I'm having trouble absorbing.

Thanks


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## mattheww50

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*

In multi-cell applications, you usually want protected cells, and in general the big 'names' only make the cell itself,not the protection PCB, nor do they package the cell and protection PCB. If you go with 18650's you probably want to make sure the cell underneath it is a Panasonic, 18650A (3100mAh), or 18650B (3400mAh), however fitment can be an issue with the 3400mAh cells because they tend to be slightly larger than the 3100mAh cells, and often the protected cells are closer to 70mm long than the nominal 65mm. These is considerable variation in the length of protected cells, make sure whatever you buy will actually fit. I have some protected 18650's that fit in an Supbeam X40, but won't fint in a Sunwayman V60. Other protected 18650's I have will fit in both. 

It does NOT appear that this light is designed to use CR123's. From both Selfbuilt's review, and Thrunites's web site:
"•Working voltage: 8V to 13V." 
That Suggests that CR123's probably are NOT a good idea, since 6 CR123's would be 18 volts!


You should be able to pick up protected Panasonic 3100mA cells for about $12 each, and of course you will need a decent charger (about $25 for an I4 Intellicharger, which works just fine, it just takes a while to recharge a 3100mAh or 3400mAh Cell at 375ma), or for a little more money a Xtar SP2, which can charge in pairs at 2 amps, so even if you have to change the cells, you are looking at charing 3 3100mAh 18650's in about 4 hours. It will take closer to 8 hours to recharge all 3 18650's in an I4.


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## CanadianBacon

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*

I suggest 18650s from reputable brands such as Sanyo or Panasonic which manufacture cells to be used in laptop batteries. Some people have good experiences with chinese brands such as Ultrafire or Trustfire but it's generally hit or miss with those, and often the actual capacity is much lower than stated. Chinese manufacturers have the tendency to overrate the capacity by 50 percent or more so don't be suprised if your "3000 mAh" battery turns out to only be 1000 mAh actual capacity. Other than that, I suppose manufacturers like Sanyo have better quality control, so no two batteries will have capacities that are wildly different from one another (so your flashlight, or other cells do not get fried).

Also, I'm not too sure that CR123s will work with the TN30, it seems that it can only accept 3 18650s. (Contact Thrunite before putting any CR123s inside, it might fry the light!!)

Just a word of caution, get protected cells so that you don't accidentally over discharge or over charge your cells, they can explode on you and you will be left a fried lump of meat!!


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## Snareman

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*

Could one of you point me to a link to the 3100 Panasonics? I searched Amazon but only come up with these
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C26OWGS/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Didn't see them on batteryjunction either. 

I'm still a little ignorant and learning on these 18650s, but I'm guessing these are different from what you're recommending?

Thanks again.


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## cland72

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*

Buy them from AW here on the site, or in the marketplace (can't remember which forum has their sales thread).


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## Snareman

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*



cland72 said:


> Buy them from AW here on the site, or in the marketplace (can't remember which forum has their sales thread).



Is AW the screen name on here?


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## Ozymandias

*Can someone recommend batteries/charger for use with a Fenix PD35?*

First of all, if this is the wrong place to be posting this, I apologize in advance. 

I have been looking at purchasing a nice flashlight for about 2 weeks, and have recently more or less decided on the Fenix PD35, but that isn't set in stone so if anyone has a recommendation for a similar light I am open to it. 

Along with reading pages upon pages of reviews and other information about various flashlights, I have also spent the past week or so reading up on 18650 rechargeable batteries. At present, I am at a point of information overload in this particular area. Basically I'm looking for a good quality battery to use with this light that is also safe, along with a charger capable of telling me all pertinent information regarding the batteries, if such a thing exists. I have seen several mentions of 'hobby chargers,' and perhaps this is what I am looking for, although I'm not sure. I have a digital multimeter at this point but I'm basically looking for some guidance as to a battery that will fit in this particular light, has a general reputation of safety, and also a charger that will assist in the care taking of the batteries themselves.

Thank you for your responses in advance, and I apologize once again if this is the incorrect area.

-Ozy


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## Knight_Light

*Re: Can someone recommend batteries/charger for use with a Fenix PD35?*

Welcome to CPF Ozy..... The charger you should take a look at is the xtar vp1. It will serve a lot of your needs moving forward. As far as batteries go it will depend on where you live (some brands are harder to get in certain countries) but basically anything with the Panasonic cell inside will serve you well.


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## govigov

noob question:

Can the 18650 battery be substituted with AA / AAA's ? There is a difference in voltage, but from a physical perspective, if i were to wire 3 AA in series and bundle them up, can it be used in the same space requirement for 18650s?


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## Ozymandias

*Re: Can someone recommend batteries/charger for use with a Fenix PD35?*



Knight_Light said:


> Welcome to CPF Ozy..... The charger you should take a look at is the xtar vp1. It will serve a lot of your needs moving forward. As far as batteries go it will depend on where you live (some brands are harder to get in certain countries) but basically anything with the Panasonic cell inside will serve you well.



Thank you for your input, and the VP1 does indeed look like a fine charger. 

I live in the United States. Any particular recommendation taking this into account? I have read that 18650's have variance in sizes and want to be sure it will fit in the PD35...and be safe also, obviously.

Thanks again.


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## Revolvr

govigov said:


> noob question:
> 
> Can the 18650 battery be substituted with AA / AAA's ? There is a difference in voltage, but from a physical perspective, if i were to wire 3 AA in series and bundle them up, can it be used in the same space requirement for 18650s?



The sizes are very different. The 18650 is a size designation. 18 is the diameter in mm, 65 is the length in mm. Protected batteries generally are longer, like 68 to 70 mm.

An AA battery would be equivalent to a 14500. Much smaller. And you can buy 14500 size Li-ion batteries.


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## Knight_Light

*Re: Can someone recommend batteries/charger for use with a Fenix PD35?*



Ozymandias said:


> Thank you for your input, and the VP1 does indeed look like a fine charger.
> 
> I live in the United States. Any particular recommendation taking this into account? I have read that 18650's have variance in sizes and want to be sure it will fit in the PD35...and be safe also, obviously.
> 
> Thanks again.


 EagleTac makes some very good protected batteries but what sets them apart from a lot of the other ones is they are on the short end of the spectrum. I also love Orbtronic's. They make very good quality batteries and you can buy both of these on Amazon.


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## Ozymandias

*Re: Can someone recommend batteries/charger for use with a Fenix PD35?*



Knight_Light said:


> EagleTac makes some very good protected batteries but what sets them apart from a lot of the other ones is they are on the short end of the spectrum. I also love Orbtronic's. They make very good quality batteries and you can buy both of these on Amazon.



Thanks, I was actually looking into some EagleTac 3400's. The only further question I have is what is the ideal mA would be to charge them at? I can't seem to find a datasheet for these batteries...I'm guessing 500mA?


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## Knight_Light

*Re: Can someone recommend batteries/charger for use with a Fenix PD35?*



Ozymandias said:


> Thanks, I was actually looking into some EagleTac 3400's. The only further question I have is what is the ideal mA would be to charge them at? I can't seem to find a datasheet for these batteries...I'm guessing 500mA?


 I would use the 1A setting. Lithium ions can safely be charged at a rate of 1C (there are a lot of people on these forums that would disagree with this statement however I routinely do this on a hobby charger without any problems and if you do your own research in places like battery University you can come to your own conclusions), although charging at higher rates will lower the life of the batteries.


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## govigov

Thanks revolvr. That helps.


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## naazrael

*Looking for optimal 18650 cell*

I need one that has a nominal voltage greater than 3V, and has a fairly high current discharge rate. I guess 1000mAh or greater is optimal, so a minimum current discharge of 10A or thereabouts would be great. I will be using 3 or 4 of these in series.

Looking at stuff like these:
http://www.orbtronic.com/batteries-...0a-18650-rechargeable-battery-cell-high-drain
http://www.all-battery.com/TenergyLiFePO4186503.2V1100mAhPowerCellMax25A-30072-0.aspx
http://www.batteryspace.com/LiFePO4...-3.2V-1500-mAh-8.4A-Rate-4.32Wh-UL-Liste.aspx

What other types of battery chemistry can give me what I need?
I normally use LiPos in my own projects, but I will be giving this to my brother, so I need something that will be safer, as I do not think he will be as careful as me.

I have also been looking at their chargers, kinda lame how you have to put them in series to charge multiple ones, but I guess it's doable.


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## torukmakto4

What sort of current draw? What is the application?

There are plenty of high discharge rate 3.6/3.7V cells in the 18650 form factor some of which would make a good lipo substitute. I had a similar requirement and did quite a bit of digging regarding this type of cell. Off the top of my head...

*Sanyo*
UR18650SAX - 1300mAh, 25A continuous, 4.2 CV
UR18650WX - 1500mAh, 20A continuous, 4.2 CV
UR18650RX - 2000mAh, 25A continuous, 4.2 CV
UR18650S - 1100mAh, 10A continuous, 4.2 CV
UR18650SA - 1300mAh, 10A continuous, 4.2 CV
*
Sony *US18650VT - 1100/1300mAh, 15A continuous, *4.1* CV
US18650V - 1300/1500mAh, 10A continuous, 4.2 CV
US18650VTC2 - 1300mAh, 15?? A continuous, 4.1?? CV
US18650VTC3 - 1600mAh, *30A* continuous, 4.2 CV
*
Samsung
*INR18650 series - various capacity and discharge ratings, extensive use in power tool packs
Example - INR18650-20R - 2000mAh 22A continuous 4.2 CV

*Panasonic
*CGR18650CH - 2250mAh 10A 4.2CV
NCR18650PD - *2900mAh* 10A 4.2CV
NCR18650E - 2250mAh 15A?? 4.2CV Very hard to find.
Most of the above are used in power tool packs as a more robust LiPo alternative. I use the Sanyo SAX cells to make packs for high current apps and they rock, meet/exceed your specs and are cheap. I will not post any links, but there is an evilbay seller who has the SAX cells for 7.87 for a 2 pack, and this is where I got mine. They are an older cell at this point and thus tend to go cheaper.

P.S. Is your username familiar to me?


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## naazrael

Haha yes, I'm exactly who you think I am. Looking to put this in a Swarmfire for my brother. Just need something more compact than NiCd but safer than LiPo. The Swarmfire probably isn't that current hungry at 4s, but I would still like the power there.


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## torukmakto4

naazrael said:


> Haha yes, I'm exactly who you think I am. Looking to put this in a Swarmfire for my brother. Just need something more compact than NiCd but safer than LiPo. The Swarmfire probably isn't that current hungry at 4s, but I would still like the power there.



Are you looking to put something in a holder, or make a pack? Is the 18650 form factor critical?


----------



## naazrael

torukmakto4 said:


> Are you looking to put something in a holder, or make a pack? Is the 18650 form factor critical?


Well, if I go with Li-ion, I can use it in the same charger that I have for my Trustfires (keep em around for comparison) right?
I guess in the end it's not too critical, as long as it's compact and easy to charge, though.


----------



## torukmakto4

naazrael said:


> Well, if I go with Li-ion, I can use it in the same charger that I have for my Trustfires (keep em around for comparison) right?
> I guess in the end it's not too critical, as long as it's compact and easy to charge, though.



You could use any of the high power cells which are 4.2 charge voltage with a regular loose cell Li-ion charger.

Be aware that cell holders are going to be a limiting factor if you are trying to replace a pack that is supplying huge spikes of current to a motor. I did some testing regarding this and others have proven the holders are a problem as well. Usually I just say that they need to go and it should be a pack, but how about taking a page from the flashlight book and using copper braid soldered across the springs to reduce that resistance?

Also, you are going to need an 18650 holder, which may be difficult to obtain and probably bigger than you would want (unless you can mod the stock C tray to accept 18650 cells).

Other approaches to consider are LiFePO4 lipo-type/pouch cell packs from hobbyking and the like, and 2/3A NiMH cells which go up to 1500mAh, aren't too big at all and can pump some amps (and you can pack these yourself by soldering, unlike Li-ion where that is arguably dangerous; I have a tab welder to do that). The idea of specifically using high-power loose 18650s and a cradle charger as a lipo/hobby charger substitute because of a safety concern brings into question whether it is smart to have loose cells because of the risk of accidental mixing of states of charge and . I would hope anyone using 4 of them in series would be checking voltages before installing them at the very least.


----------



## naazrael

I will be recharging and reloading the batteries for him, most likely. So I'm not worries about that mixed charges.
i was planning on an 18650 cell holder, I've found some, or I was gonna look into better contacts than springs and leafs (springs have almost no current rating lol) and designing and 3D printing one to fit whatever contacts I find.


----------



## torukmakto4

naazrael said:


> I will be recharging and reloading the batteries for him, most likely. So I'm not worries about that...



Perhaps a good quality and physically well protected lipo pack would be a simpler solution, then. There isn't much to be done to flame it up aside from handling and charging. If it was a big enough pack, he knows not to leave it to bake in the sun and there was a fuse somewhere in the harness, there isn't much to worry about.

I am still not convinced NiMH is not the smart thing to do for a newbie user, however. You can still overdischarge and kill these 18650 cells just as easily, if not more due to low capacity versus a lipo pack. I am not sure what sizes of cells you are familiar with, but not all nickel packs are big heavy nicad sub-C with 1500mAh. Nowadays there are NiMH 2/3A (16340) cells with the same capacity and performance. If you are willing to print/develop a holder and buy a new charger, why not just make a safe pack for this?


----------



## sfxd45

For 18650's I'd go with
Redilast 
Orbtronic
AW

for a charger I'd go with a Pila.


----------



## rpaull3

I have currently tested 3 18650 batteries for run time vs price. test #1: nitecore 3100mah charged with nitecore 4 bay charger, flashlight in glass of water to remain cool for duration of test, (Flashlight is M22 warrior Olight 950 lumens on high) battery lasted 2 hours and 15 minutes on high. Test #2: ultrafire 3000mah low discharge rate 18650, this time with some ice in the water, battery lasted 24 minutes. Test #3 old 18650s removed from a $99 makita li-ion 18volt drill battery pack, these lasted 58 minutes. Keep in mind the drill battery pack was not taking a charge because 4-5 of the 10 individual cells were below minimum voltage, so essentially i got those batteries for free! I did have to pull the metal off the each battery, and yes i knew they were 18650s because 18650 was printed on the side of each battery along with some gibberish. Also i tested the voltage of each battery before and after charge. The intellicharger refused to charge the battery that was borderline so i charged it in a cheap china charger until the voltage was up a bit then threw it in the nitecore charger and it charged right up. the nitecore batteries cost me $20 each, the ultrafire were $5 each so i guess you get basically exactly what you pay for with those lol. It would seem laptops and drills with li-ion often, if not always, use 18650s as their core, and typically if a pack isnt accepting a charge some of the cells are still good (above like 2.7 volts) so i would say dont throw away those unchargeable drill packs anymore!!!!!!!!!


----------



## torukmakto4

rpaull3 said:


> Test #3 old 18650s removed from a $99 makita li-ion 18volt drill battery pack... yes i knew they were 18650s because 18650 was printed on the side of each battery along with some gibberish.



SE US18650V? Green heatshrink? Sony 1300/1500mAh Konion V. Rated for 10 amp discharge and quite robust. It doesn't sound like they have substantially lost capacity. Those Makita/Sony drill packs are known for failing with 1 or 2 bad cell (the one(s) the protection circuit draws power from and can overdischarge) so are probably a good scavenging target compared to other brands.


----------



## tripplec

@Sagebrush

Ok I ordered a set of those Sanyo Protected cells you recommended from FASTTECH. I don't believe I need any higher capacity either. (For a light on a bike flashlight)
I have a 4sevens light but don't believe they support Li-ion since the enloops fit pretty close in the tube and use two. Unless there is a dummy battery spacer that can be used to fill the tube space. I am a bit new to this but read a lot of posts.


----------



## hondac90

*Fenix E35 battery advice*

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the world of decent flashlights so please take it easy. 

I've just bought a Fenix E35, the different light levels appealed to me as well as the side switch. I'm primarily going to keep it in the glove box and us it on camping trips, so not particularly heavy use. Though this might change..

It came with a pair of CR123 batteries. I'd like some advice as to whether to continue to use CR123's or get some 18650's and a charger. I have looked at the Fenix 18650 and read some posts that recommend Panasonic's. I've also looked at the Fenix charger and the UltraFire WF-139.

What would your advice be?

Cheers

David


----------



## Capolini

*Re: Fenix E35 battery advice*

I have used three different manufacturers of the Panasonic 3400 Mah "Protected" cells. 

Orbtronic- very expensive at $18.79/each. Work well

Cytac- $15.00 each. works well so far[15 charge cycles-verdict still out!]

NCR 18650B - got them for $10/each on Ebay. good so far, verdict still out after a few cycles.

I use these in Two high powered lights that take 4- 18650 batteries. The TK-75 and the BST[Black Shadow Terminator]

These batteries are a little longer[69.9mm] but fit in both of those torches.

I have Two Nitecore I4 Intell. chargers that work well , so far!! I have used them about 20 times each with multiple[usually 4] batteries each time.

That is my take.

I am sure there are several decent chargers out there as well as 18650 batteries. For me, I would rather pay a little more and have better quality and craftsmanship with PROTECTION!!

*Ciao,,,Roberto,,,"Capo di Capo" "KEEP LIGHTING UP THE DARKNESS"*


----------



## Rumeye

*Batteries and charger for a total newb*

So I've picked out my first flashlight - Klarus XT11 using the XM-L2 led. 

Now for batteries and a charger. 

It seems to me through my research on google either AW or Eagletac 18650s are the best all around choice (I'd be getting 3100mah). I just wanted to confirm the protected batteries would fit in the XT11 and what's the better option (dollar to value wise). 

Now a charger - I'm beyond myself here. I wouldn't mind a USB charger (if they exist) so I could charge it through the computer in the car ( I'm a police officer hence the 3100 mah battery lol)
I don't know if an ok one exists and what's a charger that can charge at a decent rate?


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: Batteries and charger for a total newb*

Many of the Xtar brand of chargers come with a 12v cigarette adapter and can be charged in your cruiser, at a faster rate than a USB charger.

My WP2 II dual bay charger can charge at 1A/500mA and the SP2 can charge at 2A/1A/500mA, so buy yourself two, three, or four cells and you should be golden all day. The WP2 II can also charge a USB device at 5v/500mA with a charged cell in bay 1, so you've got that option as well and it costs ~$20 shipped, so not a lot of cash.

There is also the new WP2S, which is similar, but has a cover, for $30 and the VP1, which has a visual display on it, but that's closer to $50. Some have the USB output and some don't.

Xtar does make a slower 500mA USB single bay charger...the MP1S for about ~$13 shipped, but if you're working in a car and you get a 12v adapter for free, why not?



Chris


----------



## Rumeye

*Re: Batteries and charger for a total newb*

Thanks Chris about the xtar charger. I'll grab one of them. I read through this thread earlier before posting but I couldn't really come to a conclusion about what to go. 

Can anyone advise if protected batteries will fit in the XT11?

There seems to be a large choice of batteries recommended by people - what are the top three most reasonable brands. I'm not looking for cheapies or crazy expensive ones. Just ones that carry the Panasonic cell and seen to be reliable. 

When it comes to protected batteries, can I charge/top them up frequently or do they have to drain a certain amout? I don't use a multi-meter at work!


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: Batteries and charger for a total newb*



Rumeye said:


> Thanks Chris about the xtar charger. I'll grab one of them. I read through this thread earlier before posting but I couldn't really come to a conclusion about what to go.
> 
> Can anyone advise if protected batteries will fit in the XT11?
> 
> There seems to be a large choice of batteries recommended by people - what are the top three most reasonable brands. I'm not looking for cheapies or crazy expensive ones. Just ones that carry the Panasonic cell and seen to be reliable.
> 
> When it comes to protected batteries, can I charge/top them up frequently or do they have to drain a certain amout? I don't use a multi-meter at work!



You can top them off at 4.10v, but I wouldn't do as I once did and keep dropping them on/off the charger trying to get that last 1/100v out of them. One cycle and then use them up a bit. Repeat rinse. 

16 months ago, Xtar, Nitecore/Systemax (sic) and some of the cheap-O chargers were the only alternatives to the Pila, which is still well regarded. Xtar has since upgraded their first model line and now, more recently, added the SP2, WP2 S, VP1 among others and they've stepped up and knocked Pila off of the mountain top, IMO.

I went with the WP2 II because I had already spend close to $500 on NiMH batteries and chargers and a half dozen boutique lights listed below, so I needed to pinch pennies. HKJ had tested the newer version and stated that it was pretty good and since it didn't charge to 100%, the batteries would benefit over time. I could live with that.

I went with EagleTac 3100s (black/silver) and the WP2 II and the ETs work fine in both my PD 32 and SC-600, where the latter is said to be intolerant of longer protected batteries. I also run naked Pannie NCR18650As in both of those lights to good effect, but they need to be checked on occasion, for voltage drop.

Chris


----------



## Btek

*Batteries and charger recommendations*

Can someone recommend a charger and batteries for my cree XML-t6 head lamp? It takes 2 18650 cells. I have some cheap ultra fires and the charger it came with but I keep hearing about how they are junk and I should upgrade. I have done some looking but have been real confused when looking on eBay or amazon. And please include a link if possible. Thanks.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: Batteries and charger recommendations*



Btek said:


> Can someone recommend a charger and batteries for my cree XML-t6 head lamp? It takes 2 18650 cells. I have some cheap ultra fires and the charger it came with but I keep hearing about how they are junk and I should upgrade. I have done some looking but have been real confused when looking on eBay or amazon. And please include a link if possible. Thanks.



If you read my post above yours, you'll see that I went with an Xtar WP2 II 16 months back and some protected EagleTac 3100s for my Fenix PD32 and Zebralight SC600.

Go to Ebay, type 'Xtar' into the search window and hit enter.

You can look for their SP2, WP2 II, WP2s and/or VP1. Look for a vendor who has excellent feedback.

I bought my stuff off of Ebay and everything was peachy.

Chris


----------



## Floppy legs

*18650 batteries*

I am going to purchase my first 18650 batteries.
I am looking at 3400ma from Xtar and AW.
The Xtar are twice the price of the AW.
Which are best ?


----------



## timbo114

*Re: 18650 batteries*

AW are very good cells.

I also like these - I have several pairs, no problems at all.
http://www.fasttech.com/products/1420/10001980/1141104-panasonic-ncr18650b-protected-rechargeable-3400mah
This battery may be more readily available to you in Jolly Old England.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Batteries and charger recommendations*



Btek said:


> Can someone recommend a charger and batteries for my cree XML-t6 head lamp? It takes 2 18650 cells. I have some cheap ultra fires and the charger it came with but I keep hearing about how they are junk and I should upgrade. I have done some looking but have been real confused when looking on eBay or amazon. And please include a link if possible. Thanks.



Welcome to the forum! :welcome:

XTAR is putting out some pretty good chargers right now. I would start by doing some reading here. Fellow member HKJ does the best reviews. http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers UK.html

I just bought a VP1 and am very satisfied with it so far. I'd also get some better 18650 cells. It seems that everyone gets suckered in to buying "cheap" Ultrafire cells when they first start out, but then upgrade to better, safer, more dependable cells.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: 18650 batteries*

Any of the "Panasonic" based cells are excellent cells. Many different companies re-wrap these Panasonic cells and place their name on them. Sanyo also makes some very nice cells as well.


----------



## gopajti

*Re: 18650 batteries*

I recommend Keeppower 18650 batteries. Of course they use Sanyo, Samsung, Panasonic cells, Japan IC's. Good reasonable price. AW was good choice several years ago, if you wanted to quality batteries, but now AW batteries are overpriced. Now in 2013, many good quality batteries, brands available, with reasonable prices. XTAR batteries are good also.

some excellent 18650 cell,

Panasonic NCR18650B, 3400mAh
Sanyo UR18650FM, 2600mAh

High drain

Panasonic NCR18650PD, 2900mAh (max. 10A)

4.35V

LG ICR18650 D1, 3000mAh (pink)


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: 18650 batteries*



Floppy legs said:


> I am going to purchase my first 18650 batteries.
> I am looking at 3400ma from Xtar and AW.
> The Xtar are twice the price of the AW.
> Which are best ?



AW.


----------



## torukmakto4

*Re: 18650 batteries*

Do you need protected? Does your application not protect against overdischarge (i.e. some popular high end drop-ins that will happily drain a cell to death)? If you don't need that PCB to be there, avoid protected cells and avoid rewrappers. It's a cheaper, cleaner, higher-performance, more likely to fit, and in some ways safer option (due to not having that positive nickel strip going down the side of the cell can with nothing but kapton tape preventing a uncontrollable short). 

You can buy Panasonic NCR18650B and Sanyo UR18650FM for 6 to 8 bucks a pop from fasttech, and these two cells are the king and queen of flashlight batteries in 18650 size (NCR-B for absolute maximum capacity on the market and good durability, FM for high voltage under load for linear and buck driven lights). These and similar top of the line cells are what all the best rewrapped protecteds have under that shrink wrap. What this means is first of all that no rewrapper can offer you an advantage over another in terms of cells, and second that a lot of rewraps are at a substantial markup and cost you as a user a lot more than you could be spending on that cell.

What you are paying for when you buy rewrapped cells is partially the PCB and assembly. The quality of a PCB install and rewrap is important, so it is worthwhile to choose wisely, but I wouldn't pay twice AW cost under any circumstances. AW is a standard of quality when it comes to protecteds.

Word of warning about the Fasttech house brand protecteds, they do not remove the factory shrinkwrap from the cells first and add a very tall button top and second positive insulator, which results in a battery that may not fit devices designed strictly for an 18650 cell i.e. may be too big in both directions to stuff into certain lights.


----------



## NeedMoreLight

*Battery choices.*

These are going to be used in a Thrunite TN30 and Fenix TK75, and using a Nitecore i4 charger. I am a bit undecided because of cost, and not sure of quality compared to each other, or performance in actual use.
Prices are per 2 batteries. These are protected.
Samsung 2600mah $9.53
Sanyo 2800mah $11.01 
Panasonic 2900mah $13.35 The Panasonic 3100mah is close in price, but not sure the charger will get it that high.

I have Tenergy now and they bend the tail cap spring a bit in one light I use because of length. Don't have the TK75 or TN30 yet, so not sure if length will matter with them. Different sites list the Tenergy at different lengths and can't find my calipers to measure them.

Not using light for serious work, just fun at night, camping and a little wow factor. Of the three, I am thinking Panasonic is best in quality, followed by Sanyo, but for my needs, I am not sure it matters, so I am asking the pros.


----------



## tripplec

*Re: Battery choices.*

I got my FASTTECH Sanyo 18650 cells today. Now to charge them. My son has the I4 charger from the weekend so I have to wait. I believe that 1 & 2 positions are the high current single channel positions for the fastest charge of 2 of them.


----------



## american

*Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger*

The cheaper the better as long as its safe I only have - light that needs it. I see a tenergy for 14 bucks then I'd want 2 batteries which I want to be safe.


----------



## tacticalpineapple

*Re: Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger*



american said:


> The cheaper the better as long as its safe I only have - light that needs it. I see a tenergy for 14 bucks then I'd want 2 batteries which I want to be safe.



I called BatteriesPlus in MI today to see what 18650s they carried. The clerk recommended the BP private brand of 18650 called a Nuon. The clerk recommended this brand over Surefire which he claimed customers were constantly complaining about. I was skeptical of his dubious claim b/c I use Surefire 123s in my Fenix TK15 w/ great results. Also, I believe Selfbuilt did a review of the SF 123 and it scored highly, but I digress. I did some research online for Nuon batteries and found many reviews claiming Nuon is garbage. Looks like I won't be buying from BP in the near future. 

I don't know enough to recommend a battery, but I've read other threads that have recommended Panasonic Protected 18650s from fasttech.com. 

Ehdios,

TP


----------



## 1nterceptor

*Re: Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger*

Is $7 cheap enough?  I've been using this for over 2 and a half years now, SKU: 936.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96fIh307fc0


----------



## Vesper

*Re: Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger*



american said:


> *The cheaper the better as long as its safe...*



Make sure to read up on these batteries and how to be safe. If you insist on going the cheap route, be _extra _careful.


----------



## Dark Slayer

*Re: Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger*

I found the Panasonic Protected 18650B 3400 to be very good. I use the botton top and they are on the long side which works out good for me. Mine were 19.98 for 2 on ebay. I got four and am very happy with their performance.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger*

Read up on http://batteryuniversity.com/

Some battery reviews from HKJ. http://lygte-info.dk/ 

Nothing wrong with Surefire CR123 batteries. They are some of the best on the market.


----------



## american

*Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger*

So I think I'll go with 2 panasonics but what charger cheaper the better


----------



## degarb

*Re: Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger*

From where does fasttech.com ship?


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger*



american said:


> So I think I'll go with 2 panasonics but what charger cheaper the better



Panasonics are some of the best cells and a very good choice for 18650's. 

Some of the newer XTAR chargers are very good. Specifically the VP1 or the WP2S.


----------



## hiuintahs

*Re: Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger*



american said:


> So I think I'll go with 2 panasonics but what charger cheaper the better


 
Panasonic cells are some of the best if not the best and so they are not the cheapest so why go with a cheap charger?

I would just decide on the charger you want and then go after the best price you can find.

I personally have read good things about the Xtar VP1. It has a display which makes it a little more expensive than say the WP2S.

The Xtar MP1S has really cheap electronics...........hardly anything to it. But then again look at the review HKJ did on the MP1. So you usually get what you pay for.


----------



## mr_magicfingers

*Need battery recommendation for a Supbeam X40 light (3x18650)*

Just arranged to buy this light and need some batteries to go with it. Not used 18650's before. The light comes with a charging system so I don't need a charger as they'll charge when the light is plugged in. I'm based in the UK if that helps, and would appreciate some pointers on reputable batteries for this set up and a place to buy in the UK if possible.

Thanks.


----------



## mattheww50

*Re: Need battery recommendation for a Supbeam X40 light (3x18650)*

Exactly whose cells you use probably doesn't matter all that much. The batteries are internally charged in parallel, but discharged in series, so protected 18650's would be my advice. Because the protection circuit is added by a 3rd party, there are plenty of vendors. Just make sure the cell underneath is a Panasonic. I use protected 3100mAh cells in my X40, they fit without a problem. Avoid the ***Fire
cells or anything else that claims more than 3400mAh capacity, because by definition they are fakes. The highest capacity 18650 at the moment is the Panasonic 18650B at 3400 mAh. The 3400's are a little larger than the typical 18650's, and since I haven't tried them, I cannot guarantee they will actually fit. Figure you are going to have to spend about about $12-$15 per cell. Shipping of the cells can
be a problem because many postal authorities now restrict the shipment of Li-Ion cells. 

Good luck and enjoy the light.


----------



## TEEJ

*Re: Need battery recommendation for a Supbeam X40 light (3x18650)*

So far the best deal I've found on cells that actually work, etc, are Fasttech's 3400 mah 18650.They sell them in 2-packs, so if you order "one" you get two 18650s, which confuses people. They cost about $6-7 per 18650, depending on the number of sets you get a t a time, etc. They sell both protected, and unprotected cells, so get the PROTECTED ones.


----------



## Dubois

*Re: Need battery recommendation for a Supbeam X40 light (3x18650)*



TEEJ said:


> So far the best deal I've found on cells that actually work, etc, are Fasttech's 3400 mah 18650.They sell them in 2-packs, so if you order "one" you get two 18650s, which confuses people. They cost about $6-7 per 18650, depending on the number of sets you get a t a time, etc. They sell both protected, and unprotected cells, so get the PROTECTED ones.



+1 - go to Fasttech for the Panasonic cells and you will save a *lot *of money. UK dealers will typically charge the same number of pounds sterling for one cell as Fasttech will charge in dollars for two. Fasttech shipping is reasonably fast at the moment (my last order took two weeks), but there might be HK Post complications.


----------



## mr_magicfingers

*Re: Need battery recommendation for a Supbeam X40 light (3x18650)*

Thanks very much for this, I'll order through fasttech, think I'm likely to go for the 3100mah as the 3400 may not fit in the X40. Shame I have to buy 4 of them though, with the internal charger they'll likely never get taken out and I have a single one sitting around unused. I could buy a torch that takes a single battery but then I'd have to buy a single charger. Already have a quark AA and a zebrah h502 AA


----------



## TEEJ

*Re: Need battery recommendation for a Supbeam X40 light (3x18650)*



mr_magicfingers said:


> Thanks very much for this, I'll order through fasttech, think I'm likely to go for the 3100mah as the 3400 may not fit in the X40. Shame I have to buy 4 of them though, with the internal charger they'll likely never get taken out and I have a single one sitting around unused. I could buy a torch that takes a single battery but then I'd have to buy a single charger. Already have a quark AA and a zebrah h502 AA



They fit in mine and in Vinh's...so they should fit into yours.


----------



## bokeh

*Re: Need battery recommendation for a Supbeam X40 light (3x18650)*

+1 for the protected 3400 from FT. Fit my X40 just fine. Not much space left in there, but works. 

Note: If they are in, you rarely want to get them out anyway, as the integrated charger is fine.


----------



## Dubois

*Re: Need battery recommendation for a Supbeam X40 light (3x18650)*



mr_magicfingers said:


> Thanks very much for this, I'll order through fasttech, think I'm likely to go for the 3100mah as the 3400 may not fit in the X40. Shame I have to buy 4 of them though, with the internal charger they'll likely never get taken out and I have a single one sitting around unused. I could buy a torch that takes a single battery but then I'd have to buy a single charger. Already have a quark AA and a zebrah h502 AA



I'd buy 3 pairs, and have a spare set.


----------



## mr_magicfingers

*Re: Need battery recommendation for a Supbeam X40 light (3x18650)*



TEEJ said:


> They fit in mine and in Vinh's...so they should fit into yours.



Great, thanks.


----------



## mr_magicfingers

*Re: Need battery recommendation for a Supbeam X40 light (3x18650)*



Dubois said:


> I'd buy 3 pairs, and have a spare set.



With the built in charger, I only need to plug the light in, shouldn't ever need to take them out until they're dead, hopefully.


----------



## mr_magicfingers

*Re: Need battery recommendation for a Supbeam X40 light (3x18650)*



TEEJ said:


> So far the best deal I've found on cells that actually work, etc, are Fasttech's 3400 mah 18650.They sell them in 2-packs, so if you order "one" you get two 18650s, which confuses people. They cost about $6-7 per 18650, depending on the number of sets you get a t a time, etc. They sell both protected, and unprotected cells, so get the PROTECTED ones.



Just been looking through the fasttech site and found two very similar protected 18650 3400mah batteries. Should I choose one over the other for any reason?

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0...asonic-ncr18650b-18650-3-7v-3400mah-protected
https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10001980/1141104-panasonic-ncr18650b-protected-rechargeable

Thanks for the great advice so far.


----------



## s10mods

*Good Li-Ion charger for 18650 pack*

Let me start out by describing what I am trying to do. I have some Makita cordless tools and I love them, but the Batteries are starting to die out, I now have 3 dead packs out of 6 total and these things are ~$90 EA. I have a friend in the PC world and can get me old laptop batteries that are still in good shape by the bucket full for scrap price ~.90/lb. I dissembled a bunch already and took 5 18650 cells from a good laptop pack they were at 4.12v and replaced all 5 cells in the makita pack. the issue i ran in to is when a Makita pack goes dead the charger labels it as a bad pack with the circuit in the pack so it can never be recharged. So now i am just wondering if i can get a Really good hobby charger to charge these 5 cell 18v packs? I would also like a charger that can charge and discharge individual cells so i can tell how many mah each cell really is putting out and make sure I have good cells before i replace more packs. I am not too worried about price, if i can save buying 3 or 4 packs that will pay for a pretty good charger and i will be ahead in the future and the laptop cells are usually more mah than the original makita packs.


----------



## tripplec

*Re: Good Li-Ion charger for 18650 pack*

First I'd say the circuit is there for your protection. Li-ion can cause a lot of damage and health injuries if they blow!! Charge the pack outside of the OEM charger would be tricky since non are designed for that number in series (18V) and if you found something that offered the control it would cost more than the packs you've built new.

The cells you pulled are likely unbalanced and in various state of capacity. Overcharging a cell can be catestophic. I am sure those batteries go on sale from time to time. I have three Lion tool sets Ryobi and Makita. I wanted a 3rd battery and go a 1/4" impact driver and Li-ion for the same price as the battery alone on sale. 

Others may chime in on this but with more in series the risks increase charging them. Hence the smart circuits are there to protect the owner and manufacturer from liability.


----------



## s10mods

*Re: Good Li-Ion charger for 18650 pack*

The cells i harvested are all from the same pack, i know there are dangers involved in charging these Li-ion cells, I was looking for a good charger that would not overcharge the cells, and if i have to add balance wires then thats not a big deal for me, I also want a charger that will allow me to charge and discharge and graph the cycles of individual cells so i can match then with ones i have harvested from different packs. I was actually looking at the charger below. but i would assume that i would need at least 24v input to get the 21v output the 5 cell pack would need to terrminate. I currently have a 90A Rivergate 12vdc power supply that i used to use for my RC hobby chargers. LRP pulsar and CE turbo 35gfx.
http://www.revolectrix.com/pl8_features_tab.htm


----------



## torukmakto4

*Re: Good Li-Ion charger for 18650 pack*

Don't use that recelled pack!

The cells you are getting from laptops are "conventional" high-capacity types of Li-ion, with a 1-2C maximum discharge rate. Using them on a power tool is exceeding their discharge current ratings by as much as 10 times. They will sag like mad and perform like crap and could easily go boom if abused like this due to overheating and internal damage.

The 3.6/3.7V Li-ion cells found in this class of power tool packs are specific to high-current applications and have a much lower internal resistance. They have typical continuous discharge current ratings of 18 to 30 amps in 18650 size and the highest commonly available capacity right now is 2000mAh (Sanyo UR18650RX, Samsung INR18650-20R). Your makita packs most likely used a Sony cell such as US18650VT. If you want to build an 18650 pack similar to the original to pull this application, these types of cells are the only way.

Now as to the charger, you need a hobby charger and some balance taps hooked up to get this job done, not really a hard question. However, if you were really going to run reclaimed used laptop cells in a drill, I suggest you either use off the shelf consumer packs/chargers, or put a NiMH pack on this drill before something gets started on fire.


----------



## blerkoid

*TK75 Compatible batteries*

Hello CPF,

I am looking to purchase the Fenix TK75 in the near future and I have 3 Eagtac 3400 mah batteries right now. Does anyone know if these are compatible with the light?

Sorry if this is the wrong area - I am still trying to get used to the community.

Thank you!


----------



## Capolini

*Re: TK75 Compatible batteries*



blerkoid said:


> Hello CPF,
> 
> I am looking to purchase the Fenix TK75 in the near future and I have 3 Eagtac 3400 mah batteries right now. Does anyone know if these are compatible with the light?
> 
> Sorry if this is the wrong area - I am still trying to get used to the community.
> 
> Thank you![/QUOT
> 
> *WELCOME TO CPF*
> 
> They will be fine, but you NEED to add another!! It takes Four 18650 batteries!!
> 
> I have the TK-75. It will take any of the genuine Panasonic protected cells.I have used several kinds, the longest being 69mm and there is still a little room in the battery carrier!
> 
> *Ciao,,,Roberto,,,"Capo di Capo" "KEEP LIGHTING UP THE DARKNESS"*


----------



## blerkoid

*Re: TK75 Compatible batteries*

Awesome! Thank you very much for the reply.

I heard somewhere that the light also comes with 4 batteries, is that true or rumor?
Do you know if there is much of a difference between the 2600Lm and 2900Lm versions of the TK75?

Thank you


----------



## lwknight

*Re: TK75 Compatible batteries*

All I can say is don't make the same mistake that I did when I ordered my tk75.
I was not paying attention and got the 2600 lumen model.
Now I will always be wondering if the 2900 would have been any better.


----------



## Capolini

*Re: TK75 Compatible batteries*



lwknight said:


> All I can say is don't make the same mistake that I did when I ordered my tk75.
> I was not paying attention and got the 2600 lumen model.
> Now I will always be wondering if the 2900 would have been any better.



Good news for you!! 

*It was not a mistake! *

I am the one who made the mistake!

I have the original and then I bought the New version[2900 lumens] thinking that 300 more lumens and 27,500 more candela would make a difference. IT DIDN'T and I sent it back for full refund!! The upgrade was so small that my eye could NOT notice any difference in PBI[Peak Beam intensity] and overall output.

So don't feel bad.

I am terrible at "copy and pasting"!! Something that simple I really need to learn it. anyway, I started a thread[google it on here] called, "Original TK-75 VS. New TK-75" Check it out. People can explain the minimal difference better than I !

*Ciao,,,Roberto,,,"Capo di Capo" "KEEP LIGHTING UP THE DARKNESS"*


----------



## Dark Slayer

You can use two cells in the TK75 but you won't be able to use turbo. The best run times in mine (with four cells) have been with the Fenix arb 2600 cells. They even beat the Panasonic 3400 (protected). But the ARBs are usually pricey. In my opinion from using the TK75 and both cells for the money get the Panasonics.


----------



## BigJoeXXL

I have a TrustFire 1600 Lumen Zoomable CREE XM-L T6 LED Flashlight Torch that I've had for a while now. The original TrustFire batteries (mAh 2600) don't last long at all. I've been reading up on the best 18650 battery. Come to find out apparently they're not all the same size. I was just wondering if someone could recommend or tell me if the batteries in the link below would fit in my flashlight? Flashlight required x2 18650 battery so I just want to make sure they fit correctly. Sorry for such the knob question.. I'm just new on here. 

Current battery: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ABE7WB0/?tag=cpf0b6-20

New batteries: http://www.fasttech.com/products/14...onic-ncr18650b-protected-rechargeable-3400mah


Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## blerkoid

The Fenix arb batteries are actually $3 cheaper on mackourdoors.ca so that is better anyways.

Is it ok to mix the batteries together (2 fenix and 2 eagtac)? Or if I go with an extender - 4 eagtac and 4 fenix?

Thank you


----------



## s10mods

it seems that i cannot find real info about the 18650 cells. ive read multiple things about them, i guess ill take the 100+ cells ive harvested from laptop batts and just burn them and wait for a good show! im tired of asking about them and getting no where but dont do that because its wrong etc. i'd really like to learn but it seems way too hard. guess ill just go back to good ol alkaline cells since there's no danger with them. anybody know what happens when you burn a li-ion cell. i'm about to find out.


----------



## lwknight

> Good news for you!!
> 
> *It was not a mistake!
> *


Thanks Capolini. I feel better now.


----------



## BigJoeXXL

Any recommendations from my earlier post?? 

Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## RI Chevy

BigJoeXXL said:


> I have a TrustFire 1600 Lumen Zoomable CREE XM-L T6 LED Flashlight Torch that I've had for a while now. The original TrustFire batteries (mAh 2600) don't last long at all. I've been reading up on the best 18650 battery. Come to find out apparently they're not all the same size. I was just wondering if someone could recommend or tell me if the batteries in the link below would fit in my flashlight? Flashlight required x2 18650 battery so I just want to make sure they fit correctly. Sorry for such the knob question.. I'm just new on here.
> 
> Current battery: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ABE7WB0/?tag=cpf0b6-20
> 
> New batteries: http://www.fasttech.com/products/14...onic-ncr18650b-protected-rechargeable-3400mah
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2



Welcome to the forum! :welcome:

Ditch the *****fires and go with the Panasonic cells. Look here for more info on 18650 cells. http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html


----------



## Starik1

*Recommend me an 18650 battery brand...*

...other than AW.  I have some points to spend at Amazon, and I need some new 18650 batteries, but they don't have any AW's. I want high-quality, safe, protected cells. Here's a link to the amazon search if you want to see what they DO have. Thank you.


----------



## markr6

*Re: Recommend me an 18650 battery brand...*

I believe Eagletac 3100 and 3400mAh protected batteries are availabe there. I've been using the 3400 with no problems


----------



## välineurheilija

*Re: Recommend me an 18650 battery brand...*

I would only take Panasonic out of that selection but they are unprotected so you need to be carefull with them.


----------



## välineurheilija

*Re: Recommend me an 18650 battery brand...*

D'oh i only looked at the first page :fail: Eagletac is good and Nitecore and Efest as far as i know


----------



## Starik1

*Re: Recommend me an 18650 battery brand...*

I added "protected" to the search and there are a lot of "4000mAh" UltraFires on the list.


----------



## N8N

*Re: Recommend me an 18650 battery brand...*

This might help:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

*Re: Recommend me an 18650 battery brand...*

Panasonic. I don't care what brand makes the PCB, but all decent 3400 mAh batteries will be made by Panasonic.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

*Re: Recommend me an 18650 battery brand...*

eagletac protected


----------



## Theron

*Re: Recommend me an 18650 battery brand...*

Callie's Kustom, Orbitronic, and FastTech all make great protected Panasonic 3400mAh 18650s. 

The unprotected Panasonic 3400mAh 18650s are also great if your light had a warning function or some kind of protection. 

AW for IMR 18350s and protected 16340.


----------



## jhovan

*What's up with 18650 Batteries?*

Anyone have any insight on the market supply of protected 18650 batteries? It appears very difficult to find these batteries in stock. Has this been normal for the past several years or a new phenomenon? I also read that many batteries are labeled with some ridiculous power levels, but are found to have half the stated Ah rating. 

thanks,
John


----------



## joeinid

Hi Everyone,

My first post and wanted to say "Hello". I found this forum last week and went from zero to 10 LED flashlights in the span of two weeks. It started with one inexpensive Energizer 2-AA LED light from Target and 3 Cree AA Ultrafire pocket lights from Amazon to keep in my pocket and around the house. Then I found you guys and all bets were off. I've since added two Nitecore TM26, one SRT7, one EC25W, one Sunwayman V11R (in transit), one HDS EDC Executive HDS-E1S (in transit), one Nitecore Intellicharger I4 and eight Nitecore #18650-34000mAh batteries. Which brings me to my question. How long can I expect it to fully my 18650 batteries in my Intellicharger? There's no info anywhere on charge times. Did I do okay with with buying the Nitecore batteries and charger? I've been pouring through this forum and really appreciate the reviews and comraderie.

Joe


----------



## american

*Hxy 18650 charger opinion from fasttech?*

It comes with 2 panasonics for $23 anybody buy this?


----------



## mattheww50

Charge time is a function of how many 18650's you are charging, and how 'discharged' your 18650's are. With 2 18650's in the independent slots, the charge current is 750 mA. So to fully charge a 3100mAh cell, about 4.5 hours, with 3400mAh Cells, closer to 5 hours. If you have all 4 slots in the charger in use, the charge current is effectively 375mA, so figure about 8 1/2 hours for 3100mAh cells, and about 9 1/2 hours for 3400mAh cells. However most people recharge before the cell is fully discharged, so your times will be somewhat shorter. YMMV. If you want faster charging times, you might look into an Xtar charger such as the SP2 (up to 2 amps), or VP1 (up to 1 amp). The main drawback of the I4 with 18650's is the long time it takes to fully charge large capacity 18650 cells.


----------



## joeinid

Hi Matthew,

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. My first set of 4 - 18650's were going on 7 hours to charge. These are new to me and I was just a little concerned. I prefer trickle chargers anyway so as not to stress the batteries. I have no problem waiting. Thanks again!

Joe




mattheww50 said:


> Charge time is a function of how many 18650's you are charging, and how 'discharged' your 18650's are. With 2 18650's in the independent slots, the charge current is 750 mA. So to fully charge a 3100mAh cell, about 4.5 hours, with 3400mAh Cells, closer to 5 hours. If you have all 4 slots in the charger in use, the charge current is effectively 375mA, so figure about 8 1/2 hours for 3100mAh cells, and about 9 1/2 hours for 3400mAh cells. However most people recharge before the cell is fully discharged, so your times will be somewhat shorter. YMMV. If you want faster charging times, you might look into an Xtar charger such as the SP2 (up to 2 amps), or VP1 (up to 1 amp). The main drawback of the I4 with 18650's is the long time it takes to fully charge large capacity 18650 cells.


----------



## RI Chevy

You should be able to find the answers to your questions here about the Intellicharger I4. http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger SysMax i4 V2 UK.html


----------



## joeinid

Perfect!

Thanks!




RI Chevy said:


> You should be able to find the answers to your questions here about the Intellicharger I4. http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20SysMax%20i4%20V2%20UK.html


----------



## kosPap

*Re: Hxy 18650 charger opinion from fasttech?*

have a look here for a review/test
_https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/229923_


----------



## american

I don't think I see it on there


----------



## bradthebold

Hey, 

I was waiting for the Xtar XP4 to come out and it looks like it has. HKJ doesn't have a review on his site yet though, has anyone reviewed this? Searching looks like it might have problems with NiMH termination, though it may have been the person was charging at too low an amperage. I was hoping it would be a great multi-chemistry charger. 

Now I'm just looking for a good Eneloop and 18650 charger, but I don't want to have to spend $100+ for an MH-C9000 and a VP1.


----------



## HKJ

american said:


> I don't think I see it on there



You can just search for it on cpf, then my review will pop up.

It is, of course, also possible to find it on my website, together with a few other charger reviews.

The charger is rated for 4.35 volt and is not safe to use with Panasonic cells.


----------



## american

That's odd it's sold with panasonics


----------



## HKJ

american said:


> That's odd it's sold with panasonics



I saw that, it is a very bad combination to sell the HXY-18650 with Panasonic.
It looks like some Chinese dealers believe that it is ok to charger the Panasonic to 4.35 volt.


----------



## american

Looking for a 18650 but which one? I'd like panasonic Gonna order from fasttech I've heard some bigger mah may not fit. I'd like a protected battery. I'd also consider a protected Sanyo from the same source.


----------



## kosPap

american said:


> I don't think I see it on there


it's the sixth in row. Marked as "*Cytac 2x18650 charger, "6105/HXY etc"*
"


----------



## csfirearms

*18650 Charger question.*

What is the largest number slot charger for 18650 batteries? Do they make a charge that charges 8 or 12 batteries at one time? I have a TK75 with the two extensions and it holds 12 18650 batteries and would like to charge more than 2 at a time.

Thanks!!

CSF


----------



## psychbeat

XTAR WP6 II does six at a time. 

You could get a hobby charger and probably do 8 or 10 but they don't have pre made cradles. 
Or atleast I haven't found any with pre made 18650 holders.


----------



## Stormstaff

*Battery/charger help*

Ok, it's been a long while since I've been around so please forgive me as I'm sure this has been asked a million times.

I have a SureFire 6P that has a single cell rechargeable battery (I forget brand/number), a WolfEyes 9DX (uses 3 - CR123's) and I'm thinking about getting a Fenix PD32G2. The charger I have is broken.

What's the best but not crazy expensive way to go rechargeable on everything and have one charger to charge them all? I started to look at the Fenix kit but I'm guessing I'm going to end up with two different sizes of batteries and the charger in the kit only does one size.

So, what batteries and charger (links please)?

Thanks in advance from this old noob. :candle:


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: Battery/charger help*

I just dropped in a Redilast ( http://edcplus.com/ ) 3 mode XM-L2 U2 in my 6P LED and bought two of their Sanyo celled 17670s and can't complain. For $70 shipped, I took a woefully anemic light that I got lucky and paid $35 for and turned it into something I'm not embarassed to carry.

As far as chargers go (and I have a PD32 XP-G R5,) I use an Xtar WP2 II charger for $20 shipped. You can look into their SP2, VP1 and WP2S chargers, which test out well and top out at $50.

I don't know what you'd do with the 3xCR123 light, but you can run the 18650s and 17670s in the other lights.

Chris


----------



## las3r

*What 18650's are u using*

Looking to update my old 18650 cells, what brand do u guys recommend ? 
I'd be using a xpg2 and a 8x7135 driver and my host can hold up to 3cells if u needed to no, looking to see what's out there for protected and non protected cells rechargeable thanks for the help/input


----------



## puchu

I removed a few 18650 batteries from old laptops , have put 2 pairs of batteries with solar panel and a 7805 regulated O/P from panel to a Li-ion charger. Seems to be working great. With one USB port in it I can now charge my phone and GPS while on a trek.


----------



## daiwateampenn

Im new to LED flashlight.

i just bought Crelant 7G5CS (XM-L U3,.

So, i need a pair of battery. what is the best recommended? and charger.

i really new. didnt know this flashlight works on 18650 battery instead of those C, D Cell.

kindly advice


----------



## cpfdemigod

*Re: What 18650's are u using*



las3r said:


> Looking to update my old 18650 cells, what brand do u guys recommend ?
> I'd be using a xpg2 and a 8x7135 driver and my host can hold up to 3cells if u needed to no, looking to see what's out there for protected and non protected cells rechargeable thanks for the help/input



I'm wondering the same thing as there are so many 18650 batteries to choose from. Just want (4) 18650 for a SkyRay Kung M4 that I plan to buy soon, and not sure what to buy as I have been out of the flashlight game for about 3 years. *With so many options, I'm wondering what is the equivilent of the Sanyo Eneloop as far as 18650 batteries go.* If there was one battery you guys would buy which would it be? I been looking at the Panasonic NCR18650B 18650 3.7V 3400mAH Protected Rechargeable Li-ion Batteries (2-Pack) from FastTech for $17.35 and not sure if I should pull the trigger on these or not, or if they might be too long for the SkyRay. I do know I want protected batteries so I don't have to worry about ruining them. Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## JohnGribbin

*Who sells 65 mm 18650 protected battery. Help*

I have 5 ultrafire 502b lights and the sanyo 18650s are too long to fit the light. Does anyone sell a shorter protected battery


----------



## mccririck

*Re: Who sells 65 mm 18650 protected battery. Help*

If you are using them in a single cell light and have a decent charger you could probably go the unprotected route.


----------



## markr6

*Re: Who sells 65 mm 18650 protected battery. Help*



mccririck said:


> If you are using them in a single cell light and have a decent charger you could probably go the unprotected route.



This is what I started doing after using protected for several months. I always use a good charger and check voltages with a DMM. I don't see a point in using protected batteries anymore since all my lights have low voltage cutoff.

If you must have a short protected battery, I believe the EagleTac 18650s are some of the shortest at 68mm.


----------



## DellSuperman

*Re: Who sells 65 mm 18650 protected battery. Help*

Its quite unlikely that protected 18650 will still be 65mm because of the circuit. 
Like the other CPFer recommendation, go for unprotected cells. 

- JonK


----------



## markr6

*Re: Who sells 65 mm 18650 protected battery. Help*

Just to be clear: Even though all three of us suggested unprotected batteries, you will ultimately need to make that decision for yourself. If you do not feel comfortable with them, I would understand. But you'll need to plan on them being at least 68mm long.


----------



## DellSuperman

*Re: Who sells 65 mm 18650 protected battery. Help*

You may wanna try trimming the spring of both the dropin & switch to see if it can help to reduce the height slightly so your longer cells can fit in. 

- JonK


----------



## JohnGribbin

*Re: Who sells 65 mm 18650 protected battery. Help*

Thanks for all the info. First I was going to give them to friends with a overcharge and over discharge instruction sheet. Still felt protected would be better though? Also these lights don't have springs that touch the battery. Guess that's a problem. Batteries that came with units are of course ultrafire and a cheapie charger that doesn't stop charging after the green light comes om. For me personally I bought a mm and checked the voltages... But friends won't be doing that. Hummm....


----------



## DellSuperman

*Re: Who sells 65 mm 18650 protected battery. Help*



JohnGribbin said:


> Thanks for all the info. First I was going to give them to friends with a overcharge and over discharge instruction sheet. Still felt protected would be better though? Also these lights don't have springs that touch the battery. Guess that's a problem. Batteries that came with units are of course ultrafire and a cheapie charger that doesn't stop charging after the green light comes om. For me personally I bought a mm and checked the voltages... But friends won't be doing that. Hummm....



Oh yes, if your friend is unaware of those danger, pls stick to protected cells. 
In the mean time, is the excessive battery length causing the flashlight to not able to screw down properly? 
Or you cant screw it at all..? 



- JonK


----------



## JohnGribbin

*Re: Who sells 65 mm 18650 protected battery. Help*

Can't screw it down completely...maybe three quarters closed or more. Btw I saw a 502b at deal extreme that had springs at both ends and reviews that protected fit. $12 . This doesn't help me since I already have the non spring lights and I would have to buy my friends upgraded chargers as well since protected don't fit my cheapie chargers either.


----------



## oeL

*Re: Who sells 65 mm 18650 protected battery. Help*



JohnGribbin said:


> I have 5 ultrafire 502b lights and the sanyo 18650s are too long to fit the light. Does anyone sell a shorter protected battery



http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html


----------



## thedoc007

bradthebold said:


> I've seen mixed reports about the i4. The idea is great. HKJ says it uses CC/CV charging for lithiums, but it doesn't use -dv/dt termination for NiMH. How does that affect the termination, life span, etc of Eneloops if it doesn't use the proper algorithm. I would like to get some Eneloops as well, but it seems like no one uses this charger for that. And I don't know why people say bad things about the i4 if it uses proper termination for the lithiums though.



I have nothing bad to say about the i4, I have two of them. Lithiums terminate properly at 4.18-4.19 volts, and that is my primary use. However, I do charge Eneloop AA and AAA occasionally. I don't worry at all about it, because Eneloops are famous for taking abuse and trucking on. They are less sensitive to overcharging and over-discharging than lithium cells, so there is no need to be concerned. Even if it does slighty decrease the life, frankly I don't really care. They are rated for a minimum of 500 cycles, and multiple years of use. By the time either of those scenarios rolls around, we'll have better batteries anyway. Theoretically it might matter, but in the real world, the i4 does it all, and does it well enough to make me happy.


----------



## bradthebold

Thanks. Do you know how the new XP4 compares to the Intellicharger?


----------



## myv6

Hey all. I'm new here, as you can tell from the post count. I'll cut straight to it. I've been reading a lot and have come up with what i'd like to do with my lights. I have 2. A surefire p6 and 6px. I'm capable so I'll be boring these out to fit 18650 cells. From what I've read the Panasonic are the best and I'd like to go with the protected 3400mah. I'll be going with an xtar charger. Probably the sp2.


Here's my question... will these fit length wise? They are almost 70mm long, so will that be an issue tightening everything up? Also, with the charger, the time to charge doesn't matter to me as they'll be put on there overnight, but the charger is made to stop charging at full charge, correct? I wont have to worry about having to check it every 15 min to unplug it when its done?


----------



## RI Chevy

Welcome to the forum! :welcome:


----------



## myv6

Thank you sir or ma'am. I tried to read as much as I can as to not ask the same question over and over again . Just need a bit of direction on the final detail of it all. I guess I could go with the 3100mah but I wanted as long of charge as possible so that's why I really wanted 3400. Any advice is much appreciated.


----------



## RI Chevy

The Panasonic NCR18650B cells in both protected and unprotected should fit fine. I use the unprotected Panasonic NCR18650B flat top cells in my Surefire 6P and they are just a little short. I use a neodymium magnet in the tip and it works great. My 6P has plenty of room lengthwise. It does not fit my Keepower 3400 cells though, as they are to wide in circumference.


----------



## myv6

RI Chevy said:


> The Panasonic NCR18650B cells in both protected and unprotected should fit fine. I use the unprotected Panasonic NCR18650B flat top cells in my Surefire 6P and they are just a little short. I use a neodymium magnet in the tip and it works great. My 6P has plenty of room lengthwise. It does not fit my Keepower 3400 cells though, as they are to wide in circumference.



Awesome. I fully plan to bore this light out since the cells are 18.1mm wide I was just concerned the 69.4mm length may be too much for the head and tail cap to screw together the way the should. I do have the clicky (z59 I think) tail cap on it.


----------



## N8N

Late to respond here, but an AW protected 17670 will fit in my 6P (with Malkoff drop in, not the standard P60 - but I'm assuming you're using a drop in since you're considering using a single Li-Ion) with no problems. So I would think that a 18650 would be no problem at all, so long as the *diameter* will fit. Protected 18650 will probably be somewhere between 67-68mm in OAL. Two CR123As theoretically should stack to 68mm (same nominal size as a 16340; 34mm x 2 = 68mm) So no problem at all.

Oddly, I bought my 6P used with no mention from the seller that it had ever been bored, and a P60 and two CR123As installed in it. However the 17670 is so loose in this light that I wish I had a 18650 around to try - I think it just might fit! It's definitely much looser than it is in my recently acquired Streamlight Night Com UV, which was the reason I purchased the 17670 in the first place (that light apparently goes poof if you try to use RCR123As.) Odd, as everything I've read says that the 6P must be bored...

I do have a new in package similar 6P, however I am hesitant to open the package because I haven't decided whether I really want it or if I should sell it to someone who'll appreciate an un-banged-up light.

Edit: after taking some measurements, my 6P isn't bored, but it looks like less material needs to be removed than I thought to run 18650s. That bore measures by my calipers at 0.690" or just about 17.5mm. The Streamlight on the other hand measures about 0.672" and the AW protected 17670 measures 0.670" (both a tiny hair over 17.0mm) at the strip... you know that's not going to rattle


----------



## dckemper

There seems to be a lot of experience with, and recommendation for the [h=1]JETBeam IntelliCharger i4 PRO Charger V3 - 3rd Generation - 2013 Enhanced Version (Black)[/h]
I ordered 2 from Amazon and both failed after my first charges of brand new Panasonic NCR18650B. Has anyone experienced any issues..? Wondering if I got 2 from a bad batch or if there are known issues. 

Full disclosure, I plugged these in for an overnight charge (unattended), I should know better, but it shouldn't have resulted in these chargers failing. 

DC


----------



## immahooo

*Best 18650 battery and charger???*

Hi,

I'm soon going to buy a TN30 but I don't have any 18650 batteries yet. Also, the TN30 uses 3 batts at a time so I'm looking for a charger that charges to 3~4 18650 batts at a time.
Any suggestions?


----------



## STiFTW

*Re: Best 18650 battery and charger???*

Orbtronic, Eagletac or AW for batteries, use the search and decide which you feel most comfortable with. There are 100's of pages of reviews. 

Chargers: again search is your friend, there are some very in-depth reviews. My quick choices to research:
Xtar WP6 II
SC-S1-MAX (v3 only). 

IME from all the reading that I have done, Orbtronic 3400mAh protected cells and the SC-S1-MAX is what I have chosen. When they update the Xtar WP6 II charger to have voltage readings on it I will get one of those too, I have 20+ cells to keep charged.


----------



## Sc00ter079

*New to 18650's need advise*

I am new to the addiction and my first good light (besides my pd20 I've had for years) is on it's way. Now I need two 18650's and a simple charger to go along. Does any one have and advice or where to get a deal on two batteries and a charger with out spending a fortune..... Links would be great


----------



## gravelmonkey

*Re: New to 18650's need advise*

Seek and ye shall find. Google search for "18650 recommendation", filtered <1 year old posts.

Read up* about the safe handling/use/charging for Li-ion cells, remember they're well within the realms of 'the hobbyist' and will burn/injure/kill if mis-handled. That said, treat them with respect, follow 'the rules' and and you can enjoy the cost saving/extra runtime/extra power gained V's CR123's.

You'll need a volt-meter too.

*Point 5 on that first thread is a little dated, for starters, have a look at CPF member HKJ's reviews on chargers here. (Also more 18650 tests than you can shake a stick at).


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: New to 18650's need advise*



Sc00ter079 said:


> I am new to the addiction and my first good light (besides my pd20 I've had for years) is on it's way. Now I need two 18650's and a simple charger to go along. Does any one have and advice or where to get a deal on two batteries and a charger with out spending a fortune..... Links would be great



I've been using an Xtar WP2 II for a year and a half and two EagleTac 3100s and two Panasonic naked NCR18650As during that period, to good effect in my ZL SC-600 and Fenix PD32 lights.

You can find the Xtar WP2 II on Ebay for ~$22 shipped and you can find protected Panasonic 3400s for $20 shipped, also off of Ebay, from r-lsales.

Whether they fit a particular light of yours, I can't comment on that.

Chris


----------



## Sc00ter079

*New to 18650's need advise*

Thanks for the advice and good reads.... I found a deal on a xtar wp2ii and two xtar batteries for 35 shipped .... Think I'm gonna snag that


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: New to 18650's need advise*



Sc00ter079 said:


> Thanks for the advice and good reads.... I found a deal on a xtar wp2ii and two xtar batteries for 35 shipped .... Think I'm gonna snag that



I don't know if Xtar uses the better Chinese cells, or whether they're using the Pannies or the Sanyos, but that's not too bad a price.

The Xtar WP2 II errs on the side of not fully charging cells up to 100% everytime, but it can. IME, it just depends on the particular cells and by not doing so, you gain a little longevity out of any particular cell, by not being charged up fully.

Xtars come with 12v car adapters, so that's a nice bonus.


Chris


----------



## Ace12

*Best 18650 and charger?*

I am considering getting a 18650 headlight for work. I was wondering what brand batteries are considered to be the best for run time and output and also what charger you guys recommend? I would like to be able to charge thme in my work truck if possible, as long as there is no cons to using a vehicle charger vs a wall charger. Thanks.


----------



## Scarfinger

*Re: Best 18650 and charger?*



Ace12 said:


> I am considering getting a 18650 headlight for work. I was wondering what brand batteries are considered to be the best for run time and output and also what charger you guys recommend? I would like to be able to charge thme in my work truck if possible, as long as there is no cons to using a vehicle charger vs a wall charger. Thanks.



I am interested in the subject also. I did some searches and it seems all I can find is info from several years back. The search continues...


----------



## Scarfinger

*Re: Best 18650 and charger?*

This charger came up in a thread Xtar WP6, charges 6 batteries. I would probably be more interested in the WP2 II Charger. Looks like they have a few charging options:

*XTAR WP2 II 14500/ 14650/ 17670/18350/ 18500/ 18650/ 18700/ 10440/16340 3.7V Li-ion battery charger*

*This set includes:*

- WP2 II Charger
- US / EU / JP AC adaptor
- Car Adaptor
- 2 x Spacers
- Packaging 

Charging qualifications and structures
Operation Temperature: 0~40℃
Input AC: 12V DC: 1000mA
500mA CC Current: 500m A±5%
1000 mA CC Current: 1000m A±5%
Cut-Off Voltage: 4.2±0.05V
CV Cut-off Current: <100mA
Standby Current: <20.0m A
TC Current (Battery Volt 2.0~3.0V): 80±20m A
Auto Recharging Threshold Value Voltage: 3.9±0.15V

Something to look into and see what kind of reviews it has...

Good luck


----------



## Scarfinger

*Re: Best 18650 and charger?*



> Unfortunately , you generally get what you pay for ... I'm not saying that all cheap chargers are bad , but with Li-Ions you need a charger that will terminate at the correct voltage every time ... This is far more important if your torch contains more than one Li-Ion battery ... If your torch uses three cells , they all need to be charged to exactly the same voltage ... The cells also need to be exactly the same Ah capacity ... Protected cells are essential in this scenario ... Because of this , most users only buy torches that contain only one Li-Ion cell ... Read up on the problems with using (in particular) multiple Li-Ion cells and buy a reasonable measuring instrument to check the individual voltages of your Li-Ions.
> 
> I always charge my 18650's at one amp which is perfect for 3100mAh Panasonics ... You might need a spare set of batteries too , if you are charging your cells in a single or double bay charger ... You certainly need to do a lot of reading (as we all did) before you get into the world of Li-Ions.
> 
> I would certainly recommend that you consider buying a cheap Solarforce L2 (single 18650) torch as well.
> 
> Most of the better protected 18650's seem to be a bit longer ... Some are 18700's ... Make sure that your torch will take the extra length of these cells and also make sure that the charger will accept the longer cells ... If the cells are too tight , you risk damaging the ends of your 18650's and that could be dangerous.
> 
> Good luck.



If I knew how to provide a link back to this tread I would. I just searched, 18650 charger, and found some good info.


----------



## Scarfinger

*Re: Best 18650 and charger?*

Hey! what do you know... it has been reviewed on candlepower forums. 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Review-of-Measurement-on-Xtar-WP2-II-charger


----------



## LAMPARITA

*Re: Best 18650 and charger?*


----------



## degarb

*Re: Best 18650 and charger?*



LAMPARITA said:


>




I am pretty new to the 18650 field, having decades using dozens daily of nicd, then nimh variety.

http://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-are-c2-advanced-multi-charger/ looks interesting, and reasonable price point for a mere 4 cells.

1. I don't have the shut off issue with my protected 18650's on the Intellicharger I4. Is this because they are protected cells? (The i4 Tops off at 4.19 volts, cells don't ever get hot.)

2. My current oem fenix 2 cell charger cuts off at, like 4 volts, and I can see a huge drop in runtime. Runtime is whole reason to use 18650s for me. (The oem fenix will charge one cell that drops to 2.5 volts, where the I4 will not charge it. ) I wonder if the are-c2 will top off to 4.12; and would it not be more logical to choose between a conservative and liberal top off charge?


----------



## thedoc007

*Re: Best 18650 and charger?*



degarb said:


> I don't have the shut off issue with my protected 18650's on the Intellicharger I4. Is this because they are protected cells? ...would it not be more logical to choose between a conservative and liberal top off charge?



What shut-off issue? I don't think HKJ or Selfbuilt had any issues with early or late termination with lithium ion cells, nor have I, nor have I heard any complaints about that on CPF. It shouldn't make any difference whether they are protected or not - all it has to do is shut off at a given voltage, unlike NiMH where termination is more complicated. The weakness of the i4 is mostly with NiMH...

I think the full 4.2 volt charge is the best solution - if you want maximum runtime, this is the way to go. If you are willing to trade runtime for cell longevity, you can always take it off the charger a little early. This seems like a better solution than buying a charger that is (by design) incapable of fully charging a battery.


----------



## bassopotamus

*18650 for Nitecore SRT7*

I just ordered an SRT 7 Bundle on Amazon that comes with a nitecore charger and one Nitecore 2600 mah battery. 

I'd like to get a pair of extra batteries, but am a total noob. What I have gleaned from reading this forum is that:

1. Not all batteries fit all lights. 
2. The cells inside most 18650s are from a handful of manufacturers. 
3. It probably isn't necessary to have a protected battery in a single cell light. 
4. Feel free to correct me on any of these points. 

So anyway, I'm thinking I'd like a pair of 3100 or 3400 mah cells that will fit in here, want something that wont' burn down deer camp, and will do it at a reasonable price (I'll pay for quality but don't want to get ripped off). So please, recommend me some batteries, that will for sure fit in this light. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## nightowl66

*18650 for Romisen*

I just got a Romisen RC-T602. I am currently running 2 CR123A's in it but would like to get a couple 18650's and a charger. Looking on Amazon there are all kinds. Are any of the 2 batteries and charger for around $15 any good?
Any recommendations? 
Thanks for any help


----------



## samgab

*Re: 18650 for Romisen*

I can't post links (Edit: yes I can, here you go), but fasttech has genuine panasonics, either with or without protective circuit added, in their 2900, 3100, or 3400 mAh variations for very good prices with free shipping, and CPF members get a further 5% discount by using the coupon code which is the three letter acronym for CandlePowerForums.
Additionally, they have some good 18650 chargers, such as the Nitecore i2 smart charger, or the XTAR WP2S.
If I were in the market for a li-ion charger today, I'd buy one of the two named above. Probably the XTAR, it looks pretty good, follows good CC/CV charge method, and has extra protection by means of the fireproof ABS shell cover. Plus it has the bonus feature of being able to use li-ion cells as a USB power supply for smartphones/tablets etc, anything that charges via USB.
But the Nitecore looks good too, and has the bonus of being cheaper, and also being able to charge NiMH cells, in a pinch.
Again, you can get 5% off fasttech for these too. I don't have any affiliation with them, for the record, I just happen to have found that they have pretty good prices on some of this stuff. If you can get better deals elsewhere, go hard. Just with cells, you want to make sure they're genuine name brand cells underneath: Sony / Sanyo / Panasonic, and if they are protected, that the protection circuitry is tried and true, perhaps models that have been tested by forum member HKJ and stood up well to high current tests.

PS, in answer to your question "re any of the 2 batteries and charger for around $15 any good?", I'd have to say no. You'll get what you pay for, generally, and it's not a good idea to skimp on li-ion cells or chargers. Buy at least reasonably reputable brands and quality, is my suggestion.


----------



## bassopotamus

*Re: 18650 for Romisen*



samgab said:


> I can't post links (Edit: yes I can, here you go), but fasttech has genuine panasonics, either with or without protective circuit added, in their 2900, 3100, or 3400 mAh variations for very good prices with free shipping, and CPF members get a further 5% discount by using the coupon code which is the three letter acronym for CandlePowerForums.
> Additionally, they have some good 18650 chargers, such as the Nitecore i2 smart charger, or the XTAR WP2S.
> If I were in the market for a li-ion charger today, I'd buy one of the two named above. Probably the XTAR, it looks pretty good, follows good CC/CV charge method, and has extra protection by means of the fireproof ABS shell cover. Plus it has the bonus feature of being able to use li-ion cells as a USB power supply for smartphones/tablets etc, anything that charges via USB.
> But the Nitecore looks good too, and has the bonus of being cheaper, and also being able to charge NiMH cells, in a pinch.
> Again, you can get 5% off fasttech for these too. I don't have any affiliation with them, for the record, I just happen to have found that they have pretty good prices on some of this stuff. If you can get better deals elsewhere, go hard. Just with cells, you want to make sure they're genuine name brand cells underneath: Sony / Sanyo / Panasonic, and if they are protected, that the protection circuitry is tried and true, perhaps models that have been tested by forum member HKJ and stood up well to high current tests.
> 
> PS, in answer to your question "re any of the 2 batteries and charger for around $15 any good?", I'd have to say no. You'll get what you pay for, generally, and it's not a good idea to skimp on li-ion cells or chargers. Buy at least reasonably reputable brands and quality, is my suggestion.



Thanks for the tip. I just ordered 2 protected 3400s from Fasttech. They are actually a whisker smaller than the Nitecore ones, and I figured the Nitecore ones ought to fit their own flashlights


----------



## samgab

*Re: 18650 for Romisen*



bassopotamus said:


> Thanks for the tip. I just ordered 2 protected 3400s from Fasttech. They are actually a whisker smaller than the Nitecore ones, and I figured the Nitecore ones ought to fit their own flashlights



I'd be interested to hear how they perform. I've got some unprotected authentic Panasonic 3100's from Fasttech, but I haven't ordered any of their protected ones.


----------



## bassopotamus

*Re: 18650 for Romisen*



samgab said:


> I'd be interested to hear how they perform. I've got some unprotected authentic Panasonic 3100's from Fasttech, but I haven't ordered any of their protected ones.


I figured for an extra buck for the pair, why not.


----------



## jakepen

*What is the best reachable 18650*

I'm thinking of getting a eagletac, what would be the best rechargeable 18650, I heard some don't work with eagletac, also some are more powerful than others? Input please

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Theron

*Re: What is the best reachable 18650*

Unprotected Panasonic or AW protected unless you need IMR in most cases.
Panasonic makes the best IMRs too.


----------



## baylisstic

*Re: What is the best reachable 18650*

I would say Panasonic.


----------



## Stereodude

*Re: What is the best reachable 18650*

KeepPower protected 3400. Uses a Panasonic 3400mAh cell with a top quality protection circuit. Note that protected 3400mAh 18650 batteries can be too large for some lights.


----------



## jakepen

I'm still very new. What is imr?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## jakepen

Also how do I know which are unprotected

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## jakepen

Why would I want unprotected? 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## stevieo

*Re: What is the best reachable 18650*

in my Eagletac D25LC2 (factory custom 2 amp) XP-G2 (R5) -- nice flashlight if you can find one.

Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh

with protection circuits added by Orbtronic, Fasttech or KeepPower


If Li-ion batteries are protected they will be advertised as such.

Search battery threads for explanation on IMR chemistry.


----------



## LumensMaximus

*Re: What is the best reachable 18650*

I just purchased my first ever 18650 light, McGizmo's new AquaRam, never using rechargeables before I was confronted with the same question. The AW 18650 3400 protected was highly recommended but they only had one left, so I also picked up an Eagletac 18650 3400 protected made by Panasonic. Someone mentioned it may not fit but it popped right in and so far so good.


----------



## Theron

*Re: What is the best reachable 18650*

^^Both are Panasonic inside. 

IMR is for high drain applications. Lots of amps.


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## stevieo

*Re: What is the best reachable 18650*

*Must use button tops in Eagletac* -- at least in the D25LC2.

protected Panasonic is slightly oversized. *Orbtronic's Panasonic is button top* & fits D25LC2.

*The protected AW 18650 (black label) is not button top. *Flat tops do not work in all lights.


----------



## jakepen

Should I use eagletac 18650s, or I'm also looking at the orbtronics

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## viperxp

Panasonic 3400 cells based protected battery (Xtar,Eagletac,AW,Keeppower,Nitecore,Fenixlight.....) and Xtar VP1/WP2S charger


----------



## RI Chevy

jakepen said:


> Should I use eagletac 18650s, or I'm also looking at the orbtronics
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk



Lots of good info here. 

http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/battery protection UK.html

http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/Battery button or flat UK.html

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html


----------



## nightowl66

I was checking out chargers on amazon. They have the Nitecore IntelliCharger i2, and the i4 2nd generation for close to the same price. Would one be better over the other for charging 18650's? I ordered a couple of Sanyo UR18650F 2600 mAh protected from fasttech.


----------



## ven

nightowl66 said:


> I was checking out chargers on amazon. They have the Nitecore IntelliCharger i2, and the i4 2nd generation for close to the same price. Would one be better over the other for charging 18650's? I ordered a couple of Sanyo UR18650F 2600 mAh protected from fasttech.




I went for the i4,simply because it can charge more cells if required,never know what future purchases hold so may have more batteries and lights..............hopefully
You may decide on a 3 or 4 cell light for example,this makes charging easier and done at same time.


----------



## travish

*best 1860 batteries*

Hello what brand/type of 18650's do you guys run? I plan on building a nice thrower and wanted high quality batteries for it as well


----------



## burnct

*Re: best 1860 batteries*



travish said:


> Hello what brand/type of 18650's do you guys run? I plan on building a nice thrower and wanted high quality batteries for it as well


To sum up this thread, Panasonic


----------



## travish

*Re: best 1860 batteries*

Thanks.


----------



## kanabro

*Overwhelmed newbie - Need battery/charger recommendations for new Eagletac G25C2*

Hey guys, I'm brand new to this whole world of high quality lights, batteries, etc, & I would really appreciate a little guidance.
I understand that not every 18650 battery will fit my light, which confuses me even more.

I just ordered an Eagletac G25C2 MK2 light.

Can you please recommend some quality 18650 batteries & a charger?

Also, can I just go pick up any CR123 batteries from Walmart as backup, or do I need to look for batteries with a specific spec?

Any quick lessons/tips on what makes a good battery would help too (diff mAh makes, voltage, etc).

I appreciate any help & guidance you guys can provide.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## d.weglarz13

*need some help picking a charger and batts..*

Okay guys. 
1. So, after reading for months now about lights, it seems its time to learn some about batteries.
But, to be honest, i have already been reading tons of threads about different types of batts, and I just seem to have a hard time understanding. In fact, I have always been electrically declined.... So, is there anywhere I can find a thread about general understanding FOR NEWBS that I might have a better time trying to understand? I just don't seem to get it, the differences between protected/unprotected, eneloops, lithium ion, NMHi, etc.etc.etc. It all just reads like gibberish to me. I am not a tech guy at all, and it embarrasses me to admit that I can't even get the jist of even the basics. So, any place I can read and actually learn, would really be a help.

2. Now, to make it a bit easier on my mind, this is what Im looking at. I am buying a Nitecore SRT7, and want to finally get into rechargeables, since primaries have been killing the wallet buying cr123s, and need a better way of doing things. So, I was thinking a charger like the Nitecore i4, with some types of 18650's. Now this may sound silly, but I am starting to like the look of different batteries, and is making me enjoy the flashlight obsession in my life just a bit more lately, but darn, i just want to understand these things more. And, this may sound even worse, but I happen to love the look of the Eagletac 18650 batteries with the white/green color scheme. And, enjoying the look of something as simple as the battery, will actually allow me personally to enjoy the light that much more. So, I was thinking the eagletac 18650's with the i4 charger, unless there is a similar charger that i should go with.

Now, i was thinking the i4 charger, because for one i hear good things about it, second, because i am hoping i can use more than one type of battery in it. I say this, because I also will be purchasing a Zebralight SC52, and want a better option for the batteries for this, instead of buying alkalines from the store. 

So, in my dream world, I was hoping to buy the i4 charger or 4 batt charger that can be used in the house and the car, that can hold two 18650s for my SRT7, and ALSO two batts for the SC52, which I think should be a battery called 14500, which gives this light twice the brightness than other types of batteries.(again, i am thinking the ZL 14500s because i happen to like the look of a battery that is not just plain black or something like that, although i have to admit, after reading tons of threads about different cells, again I do happen to have a little something for the nice white and green color scheme of the Eagtacs.)


Whooo, okay, i feel like that was alot of ranting and raving about my confusion, but in fact I just want some advice on the best route, or possibly other options that I can understand, about getting these two types of batts for my two new lights, and hoping that i can save money on a charger instead of buying two different chargers, but if its not possible than I will buy them separate. And, although it probably sounds absurd to you guys, aesthetics is very important to me with a lot of things, especially lights, so i kind of wanted a cool nice looking battery in my new lights also. 
It sure will be nice when i understand the differences between my options and batts in general, and I can't wait to place an order on some(hopefully recommended by you guys) site for my new toys and will feel good not to have to rely on primaries anymore. And, I want to obviously get into more lights sometime soon, and want to understand batteries in case I change batts for my next light.

Again guys, I am asking for your help because I am desperately trying to learn, and this electronically tech stuff just doesn't seem to make sense in my head the way math does, or even more mechanical things. So please try to keep in mind I hardly understand anything about batteries, and that is WITH reading a good amount already.

Thank you guys in advance for any help you can offer me, whether that be a thread to read, or suggestions on what batts/chargers to buy and from where. I hope it doesn't sound like I am taking any sort of short cut here, I take pride in learning new things, but I just don't know why i am having such a hard time grasping this whole battery thing, which seems like there is a liftime worth of knowledge just about batts, due to some of the threads I have read about some of you guys that literally know and own many, many different types of batteries. So thanks again, and thanks for your patience with me.

Its just that, if I do wait until i understand everything about these batteries before I buy my two new toys, i may be waiting a very long time trying to learn about all this. I really want these lights, some cool batteries and charger options, and some threads that i can understand so I can read while my new lights and batts are on their way to my house! 

dave


----------



## samgab

*Re: need some help picking a charger and batts..*



d.weglarz13 said:


> Okay guys...[really long post]...dave



Here you go: http://batteryuniversity.com/
Read to your heart's content. Done.


----------



## d.weglarz13

*Re: need some help picking a charger and batts..*

Wow. Thank you Sir.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

*Best consistently reliable and durable 18650 recommendations?*

There's a local flashlight store near me that stocks some cool lights, chargers and batteries. Recently I bought a number of 3,400 mamp Eagletacs and AW batteries. 
The 3,100 amp Eagletacs weren't great but they were better than both the AW and Eagletac 3,400 which I found to be very "fragile". The two main issues are:

1.) The top/positive contact is very soft and can easily be dented in. Often with full capacity my lights don't turn on because that top is dented and is not make contact. It really is a problem with twist on lights. Works great the first time but is smashed in and the 2nd time wont work. Its also a problem receiving a charge on the charger. To make it worse, it is is often an intermittent problem making it harder to deal with. 
2.) The bottom disc on the negative end as well as the heat shrink tapping seems to fall off when thrown in a bag much easier than the older batteries I have.

I spoke to the store owner about it and he told me all the new high capacity batteries are like that. They don't carry any new "older style" batteries. He personally doesn't think it is a big deal - if your light doesn't come on, just take the battery out and pick out the positive end with a knife or paperclip; to him the hassle is worth the extra capacity. He also uses small magnets on the charger/positive end.

I though really need something tough and reliable that doesn't need babying. I'd be happy to give up 900 mamps for that - any recommendations for a 18650 at least 2,500 mamps that has a tougher positive end as well as tougher shrink wrap casing and chip at the negative end? Also I need an online source as my local store isn't stocking them.

Thanks so much in advance!


----------



## rickypanecatyl

*Re: need some help picking a charger and batts..*



d.weglarz13 said:


> Okay guys.
> 1
> 
> Now, i was thinking the i4 charger, because for one i hear good things about it, second, because i am hoping i can use more than one type of battery in it. I say this, because I also will be purchasing a Zebralight SC52, and want a better option for the batteries for this, instead of buying alkalines from the store.



The i4 is pretty low quality charger. Mine lasted a few weeks - took it back to the store and owner said most of them had come back - incredibly cheap wiring in the ac pick up. He did show me the charger could still be used via the 12 Volt charger.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

dckemper said:


> There seems to be a lot of experience with, and recommendation for the *JETBeam IntelliCharger i4 PRO Charger V3 - 3rd Generation - 2013 Enhanced Version (Black)*
> 
> 
> I ordered 2 from Amazon and both failed after my first charges of brand new Panasonic NCR18650B. Has anyone experienced any issues..? Wondering if I got 2 from a bad batch or if there are known issues.
> 
> Full disclosure, I plugged these in for an overnight charge (unattended), I should know better, but it shouldn't have resulted in these chargers failing.
> 
> DC



Just saw your post here and wanted to validate your experience!  Yes mine failed too and I've heard many do. It's important when reading the reviews and advice here to note that most info is based on the manufactures spec sheet and if it looks cool they often get recommended. BUT the main issue people should be concerned with is reliability; its a lot cheaper to pay twice as much for one that last 20X as long... and that's not really that long! Also you'll save space in your house, space in your mind, space in the landfills and won't be encouraging emerging markets to produce crap!


----------



## HKJ

rickypanecatyl said:


> It's important when reading the reviews and advice here to note that most info is based on the manufactures spec sheet and if it looks cool they often get recommended.



That is definitely wrong.




rickypanecatyl said:


> BUT the main issue people should be concerned with is reliability;



Reliability is important, but very difficult to test in a review. It is also impossible to say if the tested/reviewed charger is a typical one or it is better/worse than most of that type.
It is always a good idea when people post their experience with chargers in the review threads for that charger.


----------



## degarb

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*

With hungy led's, impressive 3400's, I think it is time for a $50 8 bay, nay, 12 bay 18650 charger. Personally, I can't give a 2 bay any consideration, no matter how great the quality. The logistics simply don't work.

Hmm. http://www.lighthound.com/XTAR-WP6II-Charger--6-Bay-Charger-for-14650-17670-18650-etc_p_3936.html maybe my next investment. I am guessing that it doesn't come with 6 protected 18650's, sadly.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*

That is an older charger. 2010 model. http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Xtar WP6 II UK.html


----------



## degarb

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*



RI Chevy said:


> That is an older charger. 2010 model. http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20Xtar%20WP6%20II%20UK.html




I guess I am not seeing the difference between old and new model. Both have spacers. What to look for?


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*

Improvements were made between the original XTAR WP6 and the improved WP6 II. But the charger is still an older model compared to what they have now. I had heard rumors that XTAR was working to get a new 6 bay charger to the market. Maybe something along the lines of a VP1 type 4 or 6 bay charger. Time will tell.


----------



## bassopotamus

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*

Out of curiosity, how long does fasttech typically take to get stuff to the US? The tracking on international stuff is pretty dodgy, and all I know is that they mailed me something last week.


----------



## leon2245

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*



thedoc007 said:


> If you are willing to trade runtime for cell longevity, you can always take it off the charger a little early. This seems like a better solution than buying a charger that is (by design) incapable of fully charging a battery.



Does for example the xtar vp1 have a setting where it will automatically do so early, & are there any disadvantages in doing so, or any other pros/cons vs. the fenix are-c2? I see they both have status displays, but I figure something is better about the one that costs $10 more with less bays, quality?




cpfdemigod said:


> I'm wondering the same thing as there are so many 18650 batteries to choose from. Just want (4) 18650 for a SkyRay Kung M4 that I plan to buy soon, and not sure what to buy as I have been out of the flashlight game for about 3 years. *With so many options, I'm wondering what is the equivilent of the Sanyo Eneloop as far as 18650 batteries go.* If there was one battery you guys would buy which would it be? I been looking at the Panasonic NCR18650B 18650 3.7V 3400mAH Protected Rechargeable Li-ion Batteries (2-Pack) from FastTech for $17.35 and not sure if I should pull the trigger on these or not, or if they might be too long for the SkyRay. I do know I want protected batteries so I don't have to worry about ruining them. Any advice would be appreciated.



I'm guessing that was meant metaphorically, but just have to make sure that such a thing doesn't exist. No, right?


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*

The CottonPickers chargers can be had with a digital display, which will give you a good idea of where you stand, voltage-wise, without taking the cells off the charger and measuring voltage with a DMM. It's single cell charging, I believe.

Chris


----------



## torukmakto4

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*



leon2245 said:


> I'm guessing that [Eneloop 18650] was meant metaphorically, but just have to make sure that such a thing doesn't exist. No, right?



Well, the Sanyo Eneloop NiMH cells are, within their class: durable, long-lived, of decent (but not amazing) usable capacity, decent at higher currents (for a consumer AA), reliable and trustworthy, commonplace, available, widely regarded as a standard of quality, often imitated but never duplicated...

So Li-ion analogue of that in 18650 size. My best guess, the Panasonic NCR series.

Is there a such thing as a dead NCR? Has anyone managed to wear one of these things out yet? How about safety issues, has anyone managed to make a NCR cell go ? I can't recall anything of the sort being documented. They sure seem to have an excellent track record.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: Which 18650 to get?*



torukmakto4 said:


> Well, the Sanyo Eneloop NiMH cells are, within their class: durable, long-lived, of decent (but not amazing) usable capacity, decent at higher currents (for a consumer AA), reliable and trustworthy, commonplace, available, widely regarded as a standard of quality, often imitated but never duplicated...
> 
> So Li-ion analogue of that in 18650 size. My best guess, the Panasonic NCR series.
> 
> Is there a such thing as a dead NCR? Has anyone managed to wear one of these things out yet? How about safety issues, has anyone managed to make a NCR cell go ? I can't recall anything of the sort being documented. They sure seem to have an excellent track record.



Like rifle barrels, all batteries are 'consumables' and it's only a question of 'how long' do you have, before you have to replace them.

3-5 years, 200-300 cycles if stored and handled properly?

Eneloops, maybe 4-7 years before they get to SilverFox's 80% threshold and they need to be recycled?

Chris


----------



## grift

*Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*

Ok I ordered 6 of the 3400mah 18650s from Fast Tech last week before I was aware that there are shipping issues to the states. The site should have said there could be issues or really long delays but they didn't. I'm not sure if I'll get the batteries or not now.

Soo, my question is. Can you guys point me to the lowest prices I can find the batteries in the states? I'm sure I can't get them as cheap as fast tech but hoping there is some decent prices out there I've yet to find.

So protected Panasonic 18650 (3400mah) where's my best bet? 


TIA


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370925377492?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I just ordered some Sanyo 2600s from him and they arrived in perfect order. I've also ordered my Xtar charger, some other batteries and some extra spacers, so he's a good guy.

Chris


----------



## STiFTW

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



grift said:


> So protected Panasonic 18650 (3400mah) where's my best bet?
> 
> 
> TIA



Orbtronic IMHO


----------



## stevieo

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*

You may get them yet. New shipping method for Fasttech. see below.

I ordered Fastech Pansonics & waited two months & then received a refund. I have been using Panasonics with protection from Orbtronics for a while, like them a lot, just bought more & delivery time is only a few days.


This is now posted on Fasttech's site.

_"To ensure quick shipping, FastTech is no longer using Hong Kong Post._
_US orders are now routed via the same service provided by Singapore instead of Hong Kong Post._
_Delivery times will be more consistent across the board."_


----------



## oeL

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



grift said:


> Can you guys point me to the lowest prices I can find the batteries in the states?



Maybe you should consider the protected 3400 from AW. You will get a very good product for a reasonable price. The reseller wonderlite (cpfmarcetplace) is shipping them within the states.


----------



## grift

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



stevieo said:


> You may get them yet. New shipping method for Fasttech. see below.
> 
> I ordered Fastech Pansonics & waited two months & then received a refund. I have been using Panasonics with protection from Orbtronics for a while, like them a lot, just bought more & delivery time is only a few days.
> 
> 
> This is now posted on Fasttech's site.
> 
> _"To ensure quick shipping, FastTech is no longer using Hong Kong Post._
> _US orders are now routed via the same service provided by Singapore instead of Hong Kong Post._
> _Delivery times will be more consistent across the board."_



Well my tracking number has shown them to be in Hong Kong for the last 5 days with no change, so I'm probably screwed.


----------



## grift

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



oeL said:


> Maybe you should consider the protected 3400 from AW. You will get a very good product for a reasonable price. The reseller wonderlite (cpfmarcetplace) is shipping them within the states.



Unless this seller is selling them at a substantial discount then AW cells are priced at a ridiculous premium IMHO.. don't get me wrong AW cells are great batteries, I use to buy them exclusively years ago and they were/are top notch. I just find it hard to pay such a premium for the AW plastic wrapper, knowing they are the same or very close to the same Panasonic green cells that you can get for half or even less from Fast Tech and others.....


----------



## bc5000

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



ChrisGarrett said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/370925377492?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> I just ordered some Sanyo 2600s from him and they arrived in perfect order. I've also ordered my Xtar charger, some other batteries and some extra spacers, so he's a good guy.
> 
> Chris



I ordered a couple late last night and payed an extra $6 for Priority Mail. Had a tracking # first thing this morning.


----------



## stevieo

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



grift said:


> Well my tracking number has shown them to be in Hong Kong for the last 5 days with no change, so I'm probably screwed.



not necessarily. sometimes it takes awhile for tracking to be updated. fasttech is very good about automatically refunding once the ordered is returned to them from the postal shipper. the problem is the wait time before deciding to buy elsewhere. but, the fasttech prices are lower than orbtronics if that matters. i guess the priority mail option is the way to go.


----------



## stevieo

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



grift said:


> Unless this seller is selling them at a substantial discount then AW cells are priced at a ridiculous premium IMHO.. don't get me wrong AW cells are great batteries, I use to buy them exclusively years ago and they were/are top notch. I just find it hard to pay such a premium for the AW plastic wrapper, knowing they are the same or very close to the same Panasonic green cells that you can get for half or even less from Fast Tech and others.....



the protected AW's are flat tops. The protected Panasonics are button tops, are wider & will not fit all battery tubes.


----------



## mongogeek

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*

Is it me or do those Panasonic cells seem longer than normal? The ebay seller advertises them as 69.35mm long. Most specs posted online seem to be in the range of ~65 to ~66 mm. I would stick to a battery dimension that would work well for the lights you have, no sense in buying cells that you may have to cram into your light.


----------



## m1ke

*18650 for Nitecore EC2 & Zebralight SC600 mkII L2*

Anyone know of a 18650 that will fit the Nitecore EC2 and Zebralight SC600 mkII L2? I'm looking at pulling the trigger on some protected 3400 mAh batteries from Fasttech, it's just that I have no idea whether they'll be too big (the listed dimensions of the batteries on the site are 18.1mm diameter and 69.4mm length).

Also, is it necessary to get protected cells with these two lights?


----------



## mongogeek

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*

My bad


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



mongogeek said:


> Is it me or do those Panasonic cells seem longer than normal? The ebay seller advertises them as 69.35mm long. Most specs posted online seem to be in the range of ~65 to ~66 mm. I would stick to a battery dimension that would work well for the lights you have, no sense in buying cells that you may have to cram into your light.



Unprotected Panasonic 3400s, 3100s, 2900s, Sanyo 2600s all come in right at, or about 65mm. After you add the PCB protection circuit and a button top, of some sort, or another, you get to that 68-69mm range.

Chris


----------



## mongogeek

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*

You are probably right about the Panasonics. It just so happens that the specs on the Tenergy and Ultrafire batteries (both protected) were double checked and showed 65mm. As a matter of fact, as I scour the internet looking at various battery dimensions, 69.35mm for those ebay panasonics are by far the longest 18650 I've seen.


----------



## RIX TUX

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*

Can all that have these 18650 batteries post what they use them in and if they fit with any problems.? 
thanks


----------



## P1X4R

*Re: 18650 for Nitecore EC2 & Zebralight SC600 mkII L2*

i know the 3400 mAh batteries from Orbtronic are hit and miss. generally miss. they fit very tight. this is on both SC600 mkII L2 and mkII versions. i own both. instead i just avoid using that brand altogether with my Zebralight SC600's. instead i use Fenix ARB-L2's (flat top cells) that i initially bought for my PD35's.

i'm new to 18650 flashlights but this is from my experience.


----------



## thedoc007

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



RIX TUX said:


> Can all that have these 18650 batteries post what they use them in and if they fit with any problems.?
> thanks



No, we can't. Too many cells, too many lights, and too many people. Do you have a specific question? If you give us some info, we might be able to answer a question about a certain light, or a certain cell that you aren't sure of.


----------



## m1ke

*Re: 18650 for Nitecore EC2 & Zebralight SC600 mkII L2*



P1X4R said:


> i know the 3400 mAh batteries from Orbtronic are hit and miss. generally miss. they fit very tight. this is on both SC600 mkII L2 and mkII versions. i own both. instead i just avoid using that brand altogether with my Zebralight SC600's. instead i use Fenix ARB-L2's (flat top cells) that i initially bought for my PD35's.
> 
> i'm new to 18650 flashlights but this is from my experience.



Thanks, appreciate the response. Good to know the SC600 will take flat-tops.


----------



## tubed

*KeepPower 3400mAh - any thoughts? (also ncr18560B vs. A)*

need to get a new 18650 - don't want to break the bank but want it safe.
Illumination Supply has the KeepPower 3400 mAh (based on the Panasonic ncr1865b) for $14.
Down below are other brands (based on ncr18650A) (nitecore,Redilast, etc) for 5 more dollars. Worth the money?

I tried a search about ncr18650s here but could not find the answer
thx


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

*Re: KeepPower 3400mAh - any thoughts? (also ncr18560B vs. A)*

I would like to know this as well.

HKJ's review of this battery is quite good. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...est-Review-of-Keeppower-18650-3400mAh-(Black)

I ordered the KeepPower 18650 batteries from Illumination Supply on Saturday and I've yet to receive a shipping notice. Don't know if that means anything about supply levels or not.

Edit: Literally as I wrote this I got the shipping notice on the 4 KeepPower batteries.....


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: KeepPower 3400mAh - any thoughts? (also ncr18560B vs. A)*

Keeppower makes some good stuff and they seem to be a big wholesaler of naked cells and probably decided that they could make a few bucks selling to flashlight geeks.

This being said, for me, it comes down to pricing. I've got a guy who sells FastTech type protected 3400s for $20 shipped, per pair and he's in Utah. The four deals I've done with him over 19 months, have gone smoothly and I have no doubt that I could return something defective and be taken care of.

$14 shipped might be worth the premium for you, whereas I'm going to save the $8, or more, if you pay shipping.

As far as 3100s vs. 3400s, well...I recently bought a pair of Sanyo 2600s to run in my ZL SC-600 to see if things are different, so I've not jumped on the ultra hi-cap bandwagon just yet.

Chris


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

*Re: KeepPower 3400mAh - any thoughts? (also ncr18560B vs. A)*

Sounds like a good deal on the cells. I'm just having trouble dishing out $20 a pop for 18650 cells.

2600mAh cells are good if you want a cell that will hold voltage under a moderate load for a bit longer, but if you have a light with a really well regulated driver it won't suffer in brightness from the 3400 cells that drop voltage a bit quicker but have a longer discharge curve.

If you check out the discharge charts here http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html you can see the KeepPower cells are right up there with the other 3400 cells.


----------



## PTman

I am a newbie, so don't be too harsh. 
So my take on the discussion up to this point is that
1 many of the current 18650 batteries are rebranded Panasonic batteries with protection added.
2. Eagletec, Sony, AW and Sanyo are good brands to look for.
3. Be careful of the length of protected 18650's since they vary in length, which may affect the type of charger I purchase.
i am looking for 18650 batteries for a Zebralight SC 600MK2. Bought a Nitecore Intellicharger 2nd generation, and hope that is OK.


----------



## kwittig

*18650 Battery choices*

I'm hoping to get a Nitecore IntelliCharger i4 Battery Charger (2nd Gen) and I was wondering if I could save some money on the choice I make for secondary 18650 batteries. So far I'm thinking it would be a good idea to get 1 EagleTac 3400mAh protected Li-ion rechargeable. I would like to have more of the same, but at nearly $20 a piece it's just too much. Is it a bad idea to look get some of the cheaper ones to use as backup batteries? Will the charger work well with 2 different kinds?[h=1][/h][h=1][/h]


----------



## 380long

*Best 4 bay 18650 battery charger?*

I am looking to get a 4 bay 18650 battery charger for Christmas as I currently use a 4sevens single bay. Anyone have any thoughts on which is the best way to go? I was looking at the new Xtar but I was reading it gets pretty warm and may shorten battery life? Any help is greatly appreciated!


----------



## Grizzman

*Re: Best 4 bay 18650 battery charger?*

The Pila IBC gets very positive reviews here, and mine has been flawless for the year and a half or so I've owned it.

I compared my new XTAR VP1 to my Pila, and the Pila gets warmer under the battery section than the XTAR. The XTAR gets warmest near the plug, under the XTAR name plate, while the Pila gets warmest directly under the charge bay area. Neither cause the cells to get warm enough for this to be a deciding factor.

I ran a test of a single 3400 MaH 18650 drained to 3.6 volts (resting) in each, and the XTAR completed the charge first, on the 1 amp setting. I don't recall how much longer the Pila took. If I remember correctly, the resting voltage after the charges terminated was 4.16 from the XTAR and 4.18 from the Pila.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Best 4 bay 18650 battery charger?*

If you remove the batteries from the VP1 immediately when they are done charging, you should get 4.19v's. My VP1 only gets warm at best.


----------



## nightowl66

I ordered 18650's from fasttech on the 7th. According to tracking they have been held in Hong Kong since the 12th.


----------



## MidnightDance

*3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*

Can someone recommend me a good battery? I am confused about finding the best priced best battery in this specification?


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: 3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*



MidnightDance said:


> Can someone recommend me a good battery? I am confused about finding the best priced best battery in this specification?



If you read the first five pages of this forum, you'll find lots of good info on what to buy and what not to buy.

What light(s) will you be using these in?

I use naked Panasonic 3100s and EagleTac protected 3100s, which have that Panasonic 3100 cell inside.

AW, CalliesKustom, Readilast, FastTech, EagleTac, Keeppower, Orbtronics, International-Outdoors, Enerpower--any of them will work fine for you if they fit. Just don't cheap out and buy the XXX-Fire cells, or inexpensive chargers.

Chris


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: 3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*



MidnightDance said:


> Can someone recommend me a good battery? I am confused about finding the best priced best battery in this specification?



Go here http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php and in the pull down screen click the battery that you are looking for. Henrik gives the ultimate best reviews on batteries. Stick with good brand names and you should be fine. As a general rule, stay away from anything ****fire.


----------



## Catul

*Re: 3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*

[Dupe, sorry]


----------



## Catul

*Re: 3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*

Hi all, I'd really appreciate some help. As a newbie, I've spent a lot of time on this forum as I prepare to make the jump into Li-Ion batteries. I've just purchased a Zebralight SC52w and bought the ZL584 14500 840mAh battery to use with it. In addition, I've bought the EagleTac G25C2 MKII and these AW 18650 Protected 3400 mAh batteries to go with it. Finally, I've got an XTAR VP1 on the way, along with an Innova 3320 DMM.

I'm of course concerned about safe Li-Ion handling, and want to confirm that these are all good purchases in terms of fit and use with these lights (I may also be buying the Zebralight SC600 MkII, that same AW 18650 Protected battery should fit/work fine with that right?).

So I can just put these batteries on the VP1, charge the 14500 at 0.5A and the 18650 at 1A, watch the voltage as it charges, and wait for the VP1 to show that the batteries are fully charged? I read that it can continue charging for a little while even after the voltage shows 4.20V. Should I be using the DMM to check voltages during this charging process, is it safe to do so?

Since the batteries (and I believe all these flashlights) also have protection built in, I shouldn't have to worry about going below 3.6V? Probably good practice to just check them once in a while on the DMM depending on how much I use the flashlights?

In a nutshell, the idea is to make sure the batteries stay between 3.6V and 4.2V at all times right? The VP1 should take care of the latter, and the built-in protection the former?

Thanks very much for your assistance!


----------



## HKJ

*Re: 3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*

I believe the AW are good batteries, but I have not tested them.
The VP1 is a very good charger.
The DMM is not a good DMM, but usable for checking batteries.

You can just charge the batteries as you describe, you only need to check the final voltage a few times to see that the charger works correctly.
You do not need to use the DMM during charge, but it is safe to do (See my DMM guide).

With 3400mAh batteries you can discharge down to 2.5 volt, when you remove the load they will usual recover to 3.3 volt. If you ever measure a battery below 2 volt (Some will say 2.5 volt): throw it out. There is one exception to this, if the battery measure below 0.1 volt, the problem is usual the protection, not the battery. This can be fixed by putting the battery in the charger (Most chargers can do this), where it will recover to 3.3 volt or higher in less than a second.


----------



## psychbeat

Those all sound like quality items. 
You're fine going as low as 2.8v with the 18650 - they're made to got down to 2.5 safely.

Edit: Haha HKJ beat me to it


----------



## Catul

*Re: 3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*



HKJ said:


> I believe the AW are good batteries, but I have not tested them.
> The VP1 is a very good charger.
> The DMM is not a good DMM, but usable for checking batteries.



Thanks very much for the reply; your website (and review of the VP1) really helped in my choices.

Can you recommend a better DMM that's perhaps not too much more money? The UNI-T UT61E you reviewed is $60. If the Innova 3320 I mentioned will suffice just to check the battery voltages, then I'll probably be fine with that.

Appreciate it!


----------



## HKJ

*Re: 3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*



Catul said:


> Thanks very much for the reply; your website (and review of the VP1) really helped in my choices.
> 
> Can you recommend a better DMM that's perhaps not too much more money? The UNI-T UT61E you reviewed is $60. If the Innova 3320 I mentioned will suffice just to check the battery voltages, then I'll probably be fine with that.
> 
> Appreciate it!



Sorry, but I do not have a list of recommended budget meters. My preferred DMM's are in the $500 to $1000 range and I have a couple of them (I do also have some cheap DMM's, but mostly too see what they can, I do not use them very often).
If I needed a couple of "cheap" DMM's for real usage, I would probably go for Agilent, like Fluke meters I trust the Agilents to always work correctly. This mostly defines how I look at a strange reading on the DMM, with Fluke or Agilent I will check whatever I am measuring first, with any other DMM, I will check the DMM first.

Some thing I do not like about your meter:

V and mA is in the same socket.
I cannot see a CAT rating
It is missing a 10A AC range
It is missing a uA range

The first two point are the most serious for many usages, but for checking batteries none of the issues matters.

If I checked the full specifications I could probably list a couple of more point that I dislike about it, but nothing that would make it really bad for checking batteries.

One point that is very often an issue with cheap meters is a missing battery warning, i.e. when the battery is low, it is showing a wrong value, without any warning about the battery, any DMM for professional usage will show error or turn off the display, instead of showing a wrong value.


----------



## thedoc007

*Re: 3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*

I think this point needs re-emphasizing. If you have a light in mind, put that in your post. There is probably someone else who has that exact light, and can tell you what brands work best. If you just ask for "the best affordable cell", with no specifics, you are being lazy. Time to do some research. There are MANY good brands, and various sizes to suit whatever application you have in mind, and a variety of vendors who have decent prices. There is no best 18650 cell or charger, period. Just like asking "what is the best car?" You'll get 100 different answers, and every one of them will be true for the individual. But it may not be right for YOU. GIVE US SPECIFICS!


----------



## thedoc007

*Re: 3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*



Catul said:


> If the Innova 3320 I mentioned will suffice just to check the battery voltages, then I'll probably be fine with that.



It will be fine. Measuring voltage is very easy, and cheap DMMs are very accurate for this purpose. Even $5 meters can generally give you all the accuracy you need. If you do advanced testing, or even use it for household tasks, it becomes important to get a quality meter (can be a safety issue, depending on use). But for measuring voltage on 4 volt cells, the Innova is just fine. This is what I use. I have a buddy who is a mechanical engineer, and does all kinds of electronics projects (built his own speakers, right down to individual resistors, effects pedals for his electric guitar, etc., and he also uses the Innova 3320. It is a good value as long as you realize its limitations.


----------



## Catul

*Re: 3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*



thedoc007 said:


> the Innova is just fine. This is what I use.



Great to know! Do you use the Battery Test function on it when checking 18650 volts, or the DCV function?


----------



## thedoc007

*Re: 3100 mAh 18650 3.7V*



Catul said:


> Great to know! Do you use the Battery Test function on it when checking 18650 volts, or the DCV function?



I test NiMH and alkalines at the 1.5V setting, Li-ions at 6V setting. The battery load test works well for NiMH and alkalines, the battery test at 6V is pretty much useless for lithium ion cells. To me, this isn't a big deal, because voltage is all you really need for lithium ion. You can tell the state of charge by the voltage alone, unlike NiMH which hold a pretty steady voltage right up until they are almost dead.


----------



## RIX TUX

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*

delete


----------



## RIX TUX

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



thedoc007 said:


> No, we can't. Too many cells, too many lights, and too many people. Do you have a specific question? If you give us some info, we might be able to answer a question about a certain light, or a certain cell that you aren't sure of.


I meant the Panasonic 3400's .......was kinda following the latest posts and most of the talking was about them.​


----------



## thedoc007

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



RIX TUX said:


> I meant the Panasonic 3400's .......was kinda following the latest posts and most of the talking was about them.​



Understood. That said, always a good idea to provide specifics in your posts. You never know if someone is reading the entire thread, and can easily identify what you are talking about. Many of the threads on CPF are so long that you can't expect everyone to read every post, even if they want to. See post #256.

Personally I have avoided the Panasonic cells. Why buy cells that are the very largest (and least compatible) when there are so many other excellent options available? Quality button tops from Orbtronic, Keeppower, Eagletac, Soshine, Nitecore, etc., will all offer good performance and substantially better compatibility.


----------



## RIX TUX

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



thedoc007 said:


> Understood. That said, always a good idea to provide specifics in your posts. You never know if someone is reading the entire thread, and can easily identify what you are talking about. Many of the threads on CPF are so long that you can't expect everyone to read every post, even if they want to. See post #256.
> 
> Personally I have avoided the Panasonic cells. Why buy cells that are the very largest (and least compatible) when there are so many other excellent options available? Quality button tops from Orbtronic, Keeppower, Eagletac, Soshine, Nitecore, etc., will all offer good performance and substantially better compatibility.


I dont hear much of any neg comments about the Panasonic cell and aren't most of the cells you listed Panasonics?
And Panasonics seem to cost less the the Brand names.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Panasonic protected 18650 (3400mah)*



thedoc007 said:


> Personally I have avoided the Panasonic cells. Why buy cells that are the very largest (and least compatible) when there are so many other excellent options available? Quality button tops from Orbtronic, Keeppower, Eagletac, Soshine, Nitecore, etc., will all offer good performance and substantially better compatibility.



Panasonic are exactly the same size as other 18650 cells, i.e. 65 mm long and a bit over 18 mm (18.2 or 18.3) in diameter.
A *unknown* company has put a huge button top and a thick protection on the cell and used a clear wrapper, making a protected cell that is 70.3 mm long and 18.6 mm in diameter.


----------



## psychbeat

HKJ said:


> Panasonic are exactly the same size as other 18650 cells, i.e. 65 mm long and a bit over 18 mm (18.2 or 18.3) in diameter.
> A *unknown* company has put a huge button top and a thick protection on the cell and used a clear wrapper, making a protected cell that is 70.3 mm long and 18.6 mm in diameter.



Exactly - it's been annoying me seeing these random protected clear wrapped cells referred to as "panasonics". 
I call em "clear wraps"


----------



## thedoc007

psychbeat said:


> Exactly - it's been annoying me seeing these random protected clear wrapped cells referred to as "panasonics".
> I call em "clear wraps"



I understand that all the cells I referred to are Panasonic cells underneath the wrapper. That being said, if the *total package* is a different size (and it is), calling them all the same is inviting problems. The "clear wraps" ARE larger (including wrapper and PCB) than other cells I listed. Therefore they have poorer compatibility with various lights. Different brands also have different typical builds (i.e., button top vs. flat top, shorter vs. longer, lower internal resistance vs. higher, so providing the final branding does instantly give you additional information over just calling it a NCR18650B, for example - the true cell type underneath.)

I also think calling them Panasonics is fine. That's the way they are sold, whereas most others are re-branded. It is a shortcut to finding the right cell, is all. Otherwise, you'd have to post the exact link you are referring to (and on CPF that is strongly discouraged). Calling them "clear wraps" would be fine with me, IF everyone knew what you were talking about. But since that isn't how they are sold, as a shortcut for identifying a specific cell, it lacks clarity.

I agree it would be better if retailers actually provided a different branding, if as HKJ says Panasonic is not the company who does the wrapper. But until they do, Panasonics works for me.


----------



## Buckfever

*Best Charger for AW 18650s*

I'm a dinosaur still using dsd chargers, but with these 3100+ MaH offerings it takes forever and a day. What do I need? Thanks.


----------



## den331

*Re: Best Charger for AW 18650s*



Buckfever said:


> I'm a dinosaur still using dsd chargers, but with these 3100+ MaH offerings it takes forever and a day. What do I need? Thanks.


nitecore i4 v2 or Fenix are-c2 4 bay chargers


----------



## Airmanb

I'm boring out a Surefire E2D to 18mm, I was wondering what's the skinniest 18650 battery available I could use in both my ZL H600 and my E2D? I found these Panasonic CGR18650CH have a 17.9mm diameter on amazon but they are only 2200mAh, which means short battery life, correct? I know all 18650s should have a 18mm diameter but I was wondering if there are any with a 17.8-17.9mm diameter that still carry 3000+ mAh?


----------



## samgab

Airmanb said:


> I'm boring out a Surefire E2D to 18mm, I was wondering what's the skinniest 18650 battery available I could use in both my ZL H600 and my E2D? I found these Panasonic CGR18650CH have a 17.9mm diameter on amazon but they are only 2200mAh, which means short battery life, correct? I know all 18650s should have a 18mm diameter but I was wondering if there are any with a 17.8-17.9mm diameter that still carry 3000+ mAh?



See the "diameter of battery" chart: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary%20UK.html


----------



## balticvid

I just got a XTAR VP1. Nicely made.
Works like a charm. Best charger I've had to date.


----------



## RI Chevy

balticvid said:


> I just got a XTAR VP1. Nicely made.
> Works like a charm. Best charger I've had to date.



I agree. A perfect charger. When is the 4 cell VP1 coming out?  



Airmanb said:


> I'm boring out a Surefire E2D to 18mm, I was wondering what's the skinniest 18650 battery available I could use in both my ZL H600 and my E2D? I found these Panasonic CGR18650CH have a 17.9mm diameter on amazon but they are only 2200mAh, which means short battery life, correct? I know all 18650s should have a 18mm diameter but I was wondering if there are any with a 17.8-17.9mm diameter that still carry 3000+ mAh?



The Panasonic cells are the skinniest that I know of. Also the unprotected NCR18650B cells.


----------



## olemil

balticvid said:


> I just got a XTAR VP1. Nicely made.
> Works like a charm. Best charger I've had to date.


I'm really happy to hear this since I have one being delivered tomorrow. I just received 5-3400mah batteries today and they will give the new VP1 a nice work out. Yes a 4 cell VP1 would be a big seller for sure. Thanks for the info.


----------



## SEMIJim

Only time will tell if I made the right choices, but I did do my homework. I was looking for the "best" compromise between price and quality. After reading numerous reviews on chargers and batteries, I settled on the SYSMAX Nitecore i2 charger and a pair of Tenergy button top 2600mAh 18650 batteries.

Jim


----------



## dss_777

Airmanb said:


> I'm boring out a Surefire E2D to 18mm, I was wondering what's the skinniest 18650 battery available I could use in both my ZL H600 and my E2D? I found these Panasonic CGR18650CH have a 17.9mm diameter on amazon but they are only 2200mAh, which means short battery life, correct? I know all 18650s should have a 18mm diameter but I was wondering if there are any with a 17.8-17.9mm diameter that still carry 3000+ mAh?



I've successfully fit protected AW 3400 mAh cells in various Malkoffs and my Zebralights H602. Both diameter and length tend to be in spec with the AW cells AFAIK.

Be aware that the Malkoff has an ID of 18.6mm per the website. Not sure about the ZLs. If you bore to exactly 18mm ID, no 18650 cells will fit. If you can go to the 18.6 mm Malkoff uses, the AW 3400's would work well. See HKJ's chart, above.


----------



## Airmanb

Thanks guys! I found some panasonics that allegedly have an external diameter of ~17.9..
And I just want to verify this with you guys before I burn down my barracks.. An Intellicharger won't overcharge unprotected cells and its safe to use unprotected 18650s in a ZL H600 mkii and with a surefire E2D with a custom module?


----------



## mblom122

*Tips on buying 18650 batteries*

Hello I have nerver used the 18650 batteries before, so i am total newb to it. I am going to buy a new headlamp with theese specs:

*3000LM CREE XM-L T6*
LED Qty.: 3 x Light Emitting Diode
*LED Type: CREE T6+2xR2
**Lumen: 3000LM 
*Battery: 2x18650 (not included)

And i was wondering, what batteries should i buy to this? 
What is cheap and good, or shall i just go with more expensive ones?
Any recommendations?

Regards micke


----------



## RetroTechie

*Re: Tips on buying 18650 batteries*

Welcome here, Micke! :wave:



mblom122 said:


> Hello I have nerver used the 18650 batteries before, so i am total newb to it.


I suggest to go read some Li-ion safety tips first. U sure you want 2x 18650 batteries strapped to your head? 



> I am going to buy a new headlamp with theese specs:
> 
> *3000LM CREE XM-L T6*
> LED Qty.: 3 x Light Emitting Diode
> *LED Type: CREE T6+2xR2
> **Lumen: 3000LM
> *Battery: 2x18650 (not included)


*Very* likely that lumen value is _waaayyyy_ overinflated. One needs a solid setup to get 1000+ lumens from an XM-L (T6 bin). And if I read the above correctly, 2 of those 3 LEDs are something else. Most of the power needed is still converted to heat, and has to go somewhere. That's even more difficult in a headlamp than in a bulky flashlight. Got a link to that product?

2x 18650's strapped to one's head doesn't seem comfortable. Having those batteries elsewhere, means extra wires / complexity / failure points. It would help a lot if you could tell us some about the intended use(s). :thinking:


----------



## Dorkfish

*Reputable battery retailers*

Hi all, first time poster on CPF, but hopefully this will be useful information for myself and others.

I recently purchased a bicycle light and was found a ton of replacement 18650's for it at under $5! Which brought me to this forum which burst my bubble a little to learn that most of the cheap 18650's are recycled garbage.

So, here is my question, is there a list of reputable retailers that a consumers like us can trust to sell us batteries? I really don't want to goto ebay and get a sub-par / untrustworthy / dangerous battery.

For instance I found this website which looks like the Harbor freight for batteries: http://www.batteryspace.com

Thanks,
-Fish


----------



## hak8or

So, as I understand it Panasonics are pretty much the go to as "best of the best" 18650's?

I currently have these guys that I want to put new batteries in. The batteries that come with it, as I understand it are not protected, so I am extremely reluctant to have them on my head when they could possibly catch on fire and whatnot like the "exploding batteries" section of this forum.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0098IJC7C/?tag=cpf0b6-20

This is my charger for now:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UAI372/?tag=cpf0b6-20

I would get them Panasonic's but my max budget is $20, preferably around $15, for two 18650's, not one 18650. Is this budget too low even?

Anyways, any suggestions for which batteries to get? They don't have to be 3000 mah batteries. Must be from Amazon, preferably with Prime.


----------



## neutralwhite

what batteries would fit into the new Zebralight SC600MkII L2 as it's now made a little smaller ?.
AW2600's?.
also, do I need protected or not as I like the green panasonics unprotected i think.

thanks.


----------



## weegidy

*Best battery performance/price*

I know there's a lot of discussion out there about which batteries are the best... but that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for good batteries that won't run me into debt. I would like to pick up eight cells that I can use as something that I can carry in my pack as backup, but that I won't leave in my light for every day use.

The light I am using takes 4x 18650 cells at a time, and I currently own a set of protected Panasonic 3400mAh cells, but they cost $10/ea, and I just can't afford to drop $80 on batteries. 

What are my options?


----------



## Holiday

*Re: Using Li-ion cells in LED flashlights safely*

the charger I suggest Jetbeam I2 and the battery of course Panasonic 3400mAh NCR18650B Protected


----------



## Catul

neutralwhite said:


> what batteries would fit into the new Zebralight SC600MkII L2 as it's now made a little smaller?



I have pre-ordered a SC600MkII L2 NW as well and would love to know the answer to this; I currently use protected AW 3400mAh, would those fit fine hopefully? Can anyone please confirm?


----------



## markr6

EagleTac 3400 protected fit, but a little too snug for my liking. I'm using button top 3400 NCR18650s which are shorter and don't compress the spring so much.


----------



## Catul

markr6 said:


> EagleTac 3400 protected fit, but a little too snug for my liking. I'm using button top 3400 NCR18650s which are shorter and don't compress the spring so much.



Just to confirm, the snugness is from the length? Looking up the dimensions of the EagleTac 3400 vs the AW 3400 (both protected), I get 18.6mm x 68mm vs 18.50 X 68.16mm so the AW is a little longer but slimmer. The Panasonic NCR18650B Protected 3400mAh (Green) is longer still at 18.50mm x 70.5mm so that won't work either. Hmm, not sure which way to go - for now, my protected AW 3400's fit great in the SolarForce L2P and a Convoy S3; still waiting for the SC600MkII L2 to arrive.


----------



## markr6

Catul said:


> Just to confirm, the snugness is from the length?



Sorry, yes I was referring to the length. Width is fine on both batteries I tried.


----------



## hongchai90

Hi, I'm new in this forum, just gotten my Nitecore MT26 with Nitecore NL189 3400mah 18650 battery , charge with Xtar VP1 charger ..


----------



## 18650

Xtar has two new single cell USB travel chargers on their web site. They are the MC1 and MC0.

The MC1 in particular takes 18650/18700 cells (it claims to take up to 26650) and charges at 500mA only. Price seems to be under $10 though it's not widely available yet. Quality is unknown at this point.

The MC0 only takes smaller than 18650 cells but has selectable charge current of 250mA or 500mA.


----------



## kasper7106

*Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*

Deleted


----------



## chris_786

*Re: Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*

Hi guys looking for genuine batteries and struggling to find reputable sites to buy off...

Looking for 18650's, running two together in an extension tube so guess i need protected cells.

I've found these but any other recommendations?
http://www.batterystation.co.uk/Xtar-18650-3100mAh-3.7V-Li-Ion-Rechargeable-LED-Torch-Battery-2-Pack


----------



## chris_786

*Re: Fake Ultrafire 18650 battery warning*

Hi guys after my fake "willblowupforsurefire" batteries I'm looking for genuine batteries and struggling to find reputable sites to buy off...

Looking for 18650's, running two together in an extension tube so guess i need protected cells.

I've found these but any other recommendations?
http://www.batterystation.co.uk/Xtar...Battery-2-Pack

Not limiting myself to UK sites as long as the postage is reasonable...


----------



## neutralwhite

*Re: Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*

get in touch with Craig or Calvin www.illuminationsupply.com 



chris_786 said:


> Hi guys looking for genuine batteries and struggling to find reputable sites to buy off...
> 
> Looking for 18650's, running two together in an extension tube so guess i need protected cells.
> 
> I've found these but any other recommendations?
> http://www.batterystation.co.uk/Xtar-18650-3100mAh-3.7V-Li-Ion-Rechargeable-LED-Torch-Battery-2-Pack


----------



## chris_786

*Re: Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*

Thanks will give them a shout.


----------



## thedoc007

*Re: Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*



weegidy said:


> I know there's a lot of discussion out there about which batteries are the best... but that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for good batteries that won't run me into debt. I would like to pick up eight cells that I can use as something that I can carry in my pack as backup, but that I won't leave in my light for every day use.
> 
> The light I am using takes 4x 18650 cells at a time, and I currently own a set of protected Panasonic 3400mAh cells, but they cost $10/ea, and I just can't afford to drop $80 on batteries.
> 
> What are my options?



Batteries cannot be an afterthought - figure it into the purchase price of your light, and don't skimp on the cells. The cells are more likely to cause safety concerns than the light itself - not the place to save money. That said, by going with 2600 mAh 18650s, you can save money without sacrificing quality, at the expense of some runtime. You can get eight protected Keeppower 18650s for less than $70 shipped from Illumination Supply.

Many people complain that 18650s are too expensive, but they are the best. Comparable pricing to a four pack of Eneloops, which together have about the same energy as just one 18650, so the price is not unreasonable. For 3400 mAh cells, the SoShine 18650s at Illumination Supply are a good value, at $20 per pair. Trustfire (really any xxxxxFire, except Surefire) cells are cheap for a reason - they are overrated garbage.



chris_786 said:


> Hi guys looking for genuine batteries and struggling to find reputable sites to buy off...
> 
> Looking for 18650's, running two together in an extension tube so guess i need protected cells.



Definitely stick with protected when running cells in series. 

BatteryJunction, GoingGear, Illumination Supply all have a range of options, from good value ($7 and change per cell for 2600 mAh protected) to $20 and up for certain brands of the 3400 mAh cells. If you post the exact light you will use them in, you can get a recommendation based on that. (High discharge, low internal resistance, physical size, thermal and current and overcharge/overdischarge protections, are all variables to consider.)


----------



## chris_786

*Re: Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*



thedoc007 said:


> Definitely stick with protected when running cells in series.
> 
> BatteryJunction, GoingGear, Illumination Supply all have a range of options, from good value ($7 and change per cell for 2600 mAh protected) to $20 and up for certain brands of the 3400 mAh cells. If you post the exact light you will use them in, you can get a recommendation based on that. (High discharge, low internal resistance, physical size, thermal and current and overcharge/overdischarge protections, are all variables to consider.)



Awesome reply, thanks!

I'm going to be using a L2p host with extension tube (2x18650's) and a solarforce K3 head.


----------



## gopajti

*Re: Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*

"Trustfire (really any xxxxxFire, *except Surefire*) cells are cheap for a reason - they are overrated garbage."

+ except MicroFire

Other thing. Otherwise this batteries fit or not fit "problem" is slightly funny for me. Why not use unprotected cells (which fit perfectly) if you have quality charger (eg.XTAR VP1) and flashlights? I use many flashlights (incl. some 2-3*18650 flashlights, eg. Fenix TK35 U2, Jetbeam DDR30) with unprotected batteries (only brand new Sanyo/Panasonic cells, not used/mixed old laptop cells) since ca. 2,5 years, without any problem. Unprotected cells = cheaper solution and slightly better performance. I know protected cells = more safety, but my opinion, if you are not a "retarded" man, you can use these cells securely without problem, just use quality cells, chargers, flashlights with small attention.


----------



## thedoc007

*Re: Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*



gopajti said:


> Other thing. Otherwise this batteries fit or not fit "problem" is slightly funny for me. Why not use unprotected cells (which fit perfectly) if you have quality charger (eg.XTAR VP1) and flashlights? I use many flashlights (incl. some 2-3*18650 flashlights, eg. Fenix TK35 U2, Jetbeam DDR30) with unprotected batteries (only brand new Sanyo/Panasonic cells, not used/mixed old laptop cells) since ca. 2,5 years, without any problem. Unprotected cells = cheaper solution and slightly better performance. I know protected cells = more safety, but my opinion, if you are not a "retarded" man, you can use these cells securely without problem, just use quality cells, chargers, flashlights with small attention.



In my experience, unprotected cells are often loose, and in some lights won't even make good contact. Some lights like the Armytek Predator (just one example) are designed to take a very wide range of cell lengths, but many are not. The Eagletac 3400s have fit well in every single 18650-based light I have ever tried them in...can't say that for my unprotected cells. So that is one reason.

I do totally agree that it is more important to buy quality cells, than to buy protected cells. With Ultrafire and the like, even if they claim to be protected, you'll never know for sure what you are really getting (unless you take it apart). 

I'll grant you that unprotected cells offer better performance, but the difference is marginal, unless you are talking about very high current. In the real world, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference. 

Usually I only drain my cells to around 3.5-3.6 volts before charging - but I would like to be able to get the full capacity, should I have a need to do so. With unprotected cells, you might ruin the cells permanently, or even have a reverse charging event. With protected cells, you would not damage the cells, nor would you have to worry about your cells "venting with flame". Mental retardation has nothing to do with it. Just because you haven't yet had any issues, doesn't mean that you never will. And not everyone is as knowledgeable about the cells either - protected cells are definitely safer for the AVERAGE, non-technical user.


----------



## gopajti

*Re: Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*

thedoc I understand you. Of course I not recommend unprotected cells for totally beginners. Otherwise I have a Spark SL6S, this flashlight is similar size/type as Zebra SC600, and most protected batteries are too long, fit too tight, but the unprotected cells fit perfectly.


----------



## degarb

*Re: Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*



gopajti said:


> thedoc I understand you. Of course I not recommend unprotected cells for totally beginners. Otherwise I have a Spark SL6S, this flashlight is similar size/type as Zebra SC600, and most protected batteries are too long, fit too tight, but the unprotected cells fit perfectly.



The real world: in last 6 months, I had one single 18650 light's switch smoke and nearly catch fire after 10 minutes of ownership; I also had one external duel fuel headlamp develop short in cord-I didn't know why light wasn't working and tried both fuels, where on close inspection, the 4 AA melted the spring and compartment, and the 18650 battery protection merely kicked in. Also, I nearly fell down twice in last 2 weeks on a staircase where they neglected to put handrails on both sides! First incident, tools on side where handrails, as I carried tools down. The second, just too much in hand that was closes to the hand rail. So, yes, it is best to have hand rails on both sides of a stair case!

My understanding is that, boiled down, beware of: Heat, shorts of any kind (internal or external), and charge state.
Cheap cells may have plating, dud or missing protection, manufacturing defects, and so, are dangerous. Moreover, many are shameless in lies on capacity as well as AAA levels of capacity.

Just my 2 cents of recent experience.


----------



## chris_786

*Re: Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*

Any recommendation guys for my usage?



chris_786 said:


> Hi guys looking for genuine batteries and struggling to find reputable sites to buy off...
> 
> Looking for 18650's, running two together in an extension tube so guess i need protected cells.
> 
> I've found these but any other recommendations?
> http://www.batterystation.co.uk/Xtar-18650-3100mAh-3.7V-Li-Ion-Rechargeable-LED-Torch-Battery-2-Pack


----------



## 18650

*Re: Need some advise on rechargeable batteries and charger*



chris_786 said:


> Hi guys looking for genuine batteries and struggling to find reputable sites to buy off... Looking for 18650's, running two together in an extension tube so guess i need protected cells. I've found these but any other recommendations? http://www.batterystation.co.uk/Xtar-18650-3100mAh-3.7V-Li-Ion-Rechargeable-LED-Torch-Battery-2-Pack


 The Xtar 3100's and 3400's use the latest genuine Panasonic cells and (as reviewed by HKJ on this forum) perform well.


----------



## Lucidus

*18650 NiMh low discharge battery*

I would like a low self discharge type of battery for a flashlight that takes only 18650 size (and has a driver that could not take 2 X CR123A).
The standard LiIon rechargeable has a self discharge rate of 10%/month or so, a bit high for my application and desire not to have to remember to recharge the battery every 3 months.
I found a website that claims to be selling a 3.6 V NiMh low self discharge type in 18650 size. The claimed 2800 mAh is no doubt overoptimistic as my calculation shows that only about 2000 mAh is realistically possible in that volume.
Low self discharge NiMh's like the EneLoop are supposed to retain 85% after one year, which would be good for a glove box emergency light. This would allow me to recharge just once a year if the light had not been used.
Does anyone have any experience with a 3.6 V NiMh 18650?
Any other suggestions other than buying a different type of flashlight?
Thanks.


----------



## SEMIJim

*Re: 18650 NiMh low discharge battery*

10%/mo. is the high end, from what I've read. More typical seems to be 2-5%/mo. One info page even suggested 1.5%/mo..

I don't know whether open-circuit tests are necessarily valid. For most of the batteries with which I had experience, it's not. So, with that caveat, you might find this interesting: 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?115206-Li-Ion-Self-Discharge-Rate-Test

Jim


----------



## thedoc007

*Re: 18650 NiMh low discharge battery*



Lucidus said:


> I would like a low self discharge type of battery for a flashlight that takes only 18650 size (and has a driver that could not take 2 X CR123A).
> The standard LiIon rechargeable has a self discharge rate of 10%/month or so, a bit high for my application and desire not to have to remember to recharge the battery every 3 months.
> I found a website that claims to be selling a 3.6 V NiMh low self discharge type in 18650 size. The claimed 2800 mAh is no doubt overoptimistic as my calculation shows that only about 2000 mAh is realistically possible in that volume.
> Low self discharge NiMh's like the EneLoop are supposed to retain 85% after one year, which would be good for a glove box emergency light. This would allow me to recharge just once a year if the light had not been used.
> Does anyone have any experience with a 3.6 V NiMh 18650?
> Any other suggestions other than buying a different type of flashlight?
> Thanks.



Not sure where you are getting your numbers, but they are WAY off. Standard 18650s don't lose anything like 10% per month...10% a year is more like it, in my experience.

I've never heard of a 3.6 volt NiMH, and I am HIGHLY skeptical that is anything other than a scam. The chemistry determines voltage...so a NiMH will always be 1.2 volts nominal, and a lithium ion will always be around 3.6-3.7 volts nominal. I suppose it could be using three NiMH cells in series, but that is unlikely to offer anywhere near the performance of a lithium ion cell, regardless of its supposed rating, and that introduces a new set of concerns. I could be wrong, but I would need to see some strong evidence that is will deliver as claimed before I bought it.

What flashlight are you referring to? Even if it isn't officially supported, it might work fine with 2xCR123, which does sound like the ideal solution in your case. 10 year shelf life is far better than any lithium ion OR NiMH option.


----------



## Lucidus

*Re: 18650 NiMh low discharge battery*



thedoc007 said:


> Not sure where you are getting your numbers, but they are WAY off. Standard 18650s don't lose anything like 10% per month...10% a year is more like it, in my experience.
> 
> I've never heard of a 3.6 volt NiMH, and I am HIGHLY skeptical that is anything other than a scam. The chemistry determines voltage...so a NiMH will always be 1.2 volts nominal, and a lithium ion will always be around 3.6-3.7 volts nominal. I suppose it could be using three NiMH cells in series, but that is unlikely to offer anywhere near the performance of a lithium ion cell, regardless of its supposed rating, and that introduces a new set of concerns. I could be wrong, but I would need to see some strong evidence that is will deliver as claimed before I bought it.
> 
> What flashlight are you referring to? Even if it isn't officially supported, it might work fine with 2xCR123, which does sound like the ideal solution in your case. 10 year shelf life is far better than any lithium ion OR NiMH option.



Flashlight is:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Lumens...of-/301045154731?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:CA:3160
I am guessing that this uses a pulsing current source driver, so high power 100% cycle mode would be full battery voltage, LED can't take more than 3.7 V, retailer says can not use 2 X CR123A's.
The 3 X AAA's would have much lower mAh life.

Source for the 10%/month LiIon self discharge estimate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery (8%/month @ 21 deg C, 15%@ 40 deg C)
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva533/snva533.pdf (5-10%/month @ 20 deg C)
n.b. car glove box can get hot in summer sun so worse than 20 deg C rate can be expected.

Source for the 3.6 V NiMh 18650, you are correct it would have to be three 1.2 V cells in series.
http://www.9mart.com/products/2-PCS-18650-2800mAh-Self-Discharge-Rechargeable-Battery.html


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: 18650 NiMh low discharge battery*

Thanks for your sources. Please do a lot of reading here on CPF in this forum. You will find a a mountain of information here re Li-Co Lithium Ion cells, and other chemistries as well.

Bill


----------



## Lucidus

*Re: 18650 NiMh low discharge battery*



Bullzeyebill said:


> Thanks for your sources. Please do a lot of reading here on CPF in this forum. You will find a a mountain of information here re Li-Co Lithium Ion cells, and other chemistries as well.
> 
> Bill



Thanks Bill and to the others who have responded. Candlepowerforum is a really great resource. I had read quite a few posts and learned a lot about LED's, lights, and much more, before registering and making my first post, and look forward to learning more and enjoying more of the discussions. Thanks for making all this possible.

BTW, if the flashlight uses a current sink, like AMC 7135's, as in
http://www.lightmalls.com/amc7135-8-2800mah-5-mode-circuit-board-for-muc
then excess voltage would appear across the sink chips, not the LED, and the power dissipation would fry the sink chips, not the LED, although the LED might go next. Sorry for the incorrect analysis in my original post.

I will do a test of the LiIon self discharge rate before I spend any more $$ (thanks Doc007 for restraining me).


----------



## rednek

*Re: 18650 NiMh low discharge battery*



Lucidus said:


> Source for the 3.6 V NiMh 18650, you are correct it would have to be three 1.2 V cells in series.
> http://www.9mart.com/products/2-PCS-18650-2800mAh-Self-Discharge-Rechargeable-Battery.html



A close look at the photo of the battery and you can see it's actualy a Li-ion battery


----------



## välineurheilija

*Re: 18650 NiMh low discharge battery*



rednek said:


> A close look at the photo of the battery and you can see it's actualy a Li-ion battery


It also says nimh LOL! I would stay away from those cells!
aand the title says selfdischarge not low selfdischarge


----------



## thedoc007

*Re: 18650 NiMh low discharge battery*



Lucidus said:


> Flashlight is:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Lumens...of-/301045154731?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:CA:3160
> I am guessing that this uses a pulsing current source driver, so high power 100% cycle mode would be full battery voltage, LED can't take more than 3.7 V, retailer says can not use 2 X CR123A's.
> The 3 X AAA's would have much lower mAh life.



If the driver does indeed pass along the full voltage (6V) it definitely will fry something. But I wouldn't make that assumption - even a fully charged lithium ion cell will do 4.2V, so there must be a voltage stepdown in the driver. Often manufacturers are conservative, and I wouldn't make the assumption that 2xCR123 won't work, though there is no guarantee either way.

Know that you will never see anything like the claimed lumens with that light, though, regardless of battery type. A single XM-L2 will not give 2000 lumens. You'll be lucky if it gives half of that number, and that's before optic losses. In practice, if it makes 800 lumens out the front (actual, usable light), I'll be mildly surprised. 2000 is totally out of the question. Ultrafire is cheap for a reason - the quality leaves a lot to be desired, and they are infamous for WILDLY inflated numbers.



Lucidus said:


> Source for the 10%/month LiIon self discharge estimate:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery (8%/month @ 21 deg C, 15%@ 40 deg C)
> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snva533/snva533.pdf (5-10%/month @ 20 deg C)



That explains it. One of your references is from the last century, and one from 2004. Lithium ion cells have gotten a LOT better in the last few years (both in self-discharge and capacity). Yes, leaving them in the car is a demanding environment, and it will decrease the lifespan of a battery significantly - but even so, you won't lose 10% per month if you buy quality cells. That number is just out of date, pure and simple.



Lucidus said:


> Source for the 3.6 V NiMh 18650, you are correct it would have to be three 1.2 V cells in series.
> http://www.9mart.com/products/2-PCS-18650-2800mAh-Self-Discharge-Rechargeable-Battery.html



STAY AWAY. That listing is just wrong...it is clearly not a NiMH battery at all, but a standard lithium ion 18650. Also be aware that it is unprotected, which means if you fully discharge it, you will damage the cell (perhaps permanently). Better to buy protected cells, especially for a beginner. You can get a quality protected SoShine 3400 mAh cell for $10 at Illumination Supply.


----------



## RetroTechie

*Re: 18650 NiMh low discharge battery*



välineurheilija said:


> It also says nimh LOL!


Seller is an idiot - like so often. 

The above wouldn't be it, but nothing says one couldn't fashion 3 NiMH cells in series into 18650 size. Come to think of it, that might actually be useful.


----------



## N8N

Not sure how useful... the only advantage I could see would be that it would be safer, but you can get 18650 LiFePO4s as well... now it would be a full 3.6V not 3.2V but I would hope most devices could run on 3.2. Too lazy now to compare energy density of all three options but I bet Li-Ion wins, then LiFePO4 then finally NiMH.

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk


----------



## Aahhyes68

I have four NCR18650A Li-Ion MH12210's in green that I have been using with my single cell cheapo's and my Fenix's. I don't recall why I ended up with the A's but that's what I have.

Are these "protected' cells or would it say it on the battery ? 

I'm looking for more batteries and would like them all to be the same but would like them protected. I'm going to buy a TK75 with extension.


----------



## Lucidus

*Re: 18650 NiMh low discharge battery*



rednek said:


> A close look at the photo of the battery and you can see it's actualy a Li-ion battery



Thanks Rednek - good eyes! I should always read the fine print. The others who responded saying this was likely a misleading ad were right - thanks to all. This is a great forum. Lots of educational material, good tips, interesting discussions, good humor sometimes too!


----------



## Lucidus

*Re: 18650 NiMh low discharge battery*



thedoc007 said:


> If the driver does indeed pass along the full voltage (6V) it definitely will fry something. But I wouldn't make that assumption - even a fully charged lithium ion cell will do 4.2V, so there must be a voltage stepdown in the driver. Often manufacturers are conservative, and I wouldn't make the assumption that 2xCR123 won't work, though there is no guarantee either way.
> 
> Know that you will never see anything like the claimed lumens with that light, though, regardless of battery type. A single XM-L2 will not give 2000 lumens. You'll be lucky if it gives half of that number, and that's before optic losses. In practice, if it makes 800 lumens out the front (actual, usable light), I'll be mildly surprised. 2000 is totally out of the question. Ultrafire is cheap for a reason - the quality leaves a lot to be desired, and they are infamous for WILDLY inflated numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> That explains it. One of your references is from the last century, and one from 2004. Lithium ion cells have gotten a LOT better in the last few years (both in self-discharge and capacity). Yes, leaving them in the car is a demanding environment, and it will decrease the lifespan of a battery significantly - but even so, you won't lose 10% per month if you buy quality cells. That number is just out of date, pure and simple.
> 
> 
> 
> STAY AWAY. That listing is just wrong...it is clearly not a NiMH battery at all, but a standard lithium ion 18650. Also be aware that it is unprotected, which means if you fully discharge it, you will damage the cell (perhaps permanently). Better to buy protected cells, especially for a beginner. You can get a quality protected SoShine 3400 mAh cell for $10 at Illumination Supply.



Thanks Doc007. Lots of good info.

I will get some top end, protected, 18650's as you recommend and check the discharge rate myself with my smart charger/discharger, and post back in a few months.
Thanks to you and the others who warned me away from the battery I originally asked about, saved me $$ and grief.

The Cree XM-L T6 seems to be nicely matched to the LiIon battery. Cree's datasheets show 3.34 Volt for their max 3.0 Amp draw yielding 910 lumens (which, as you say, is way below the 2000 lumen advertised, and I agree with you that 800 is an optimistic max to expect). A freshly charged 18650 will show 4.2 V, but under a 3 Amp load this will go to maybe 3.8 V almost immediately (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...tery-test-with-capacity-curves-for-many-cells). Thus, there is only 0.5 Volt extra, or .5V X 3A = 1.5 Watt to dissipate. This $9 flashlight likely uses a cheap and simple current sink driver, like this one: http://www.lightmalls.com/amc7135-8-2800mah-5-mode-circuit-board-for-muc
The chips and the little circuit board could probably handle a 1.5 Watt dissipation. A more expensive, and high efficiency, bucking type of driver would be able to handle a much higher voltage, as you mention.


----------



## Aahhyes68

*Best 18650 4 + Bay Charger ??*

I just ordered 6, 3.7V 3400mAh NCR18650B Protected Rechargeable Lithium Battery(Panasonic Battery Cell)-2 pack's from Wallbuys, and about to order
a TK75 with ext run kit. I already own a XTAR WP6 II but am looking for another charger. The WP6 has done all I've asked from it for the batt's and 
single cell torches I already have but am expanding my operation..Lol..

Buy another WP6 II or is there a better, multi bay, 18650 charger ? I don't use the charger for anything besides the 18650's.


----------



## psychbeat

Aahhyes68 said:


> I just ordered 6, 3.7V 3400mAh NCR18650B Protected Rechargeable Lithium Battery(Panasonic Battery Cell)-2 pack's from Wallbuys, and about to order
> a TK75 with ext run kit. I already own a XTAR WP6 II but am looking for another charger. The WP6 has done all I've asked from it for the batt's and
> single cell torches I already have but am expanding my operation..Lol..
> 
> Buy another WP6 II or is there a better, multi bay, 18650 charger ? I don't use the charger for anything besides the 18650's.


My WP6 II has started to glitch out a bit & I think I'm going to replace it with the new 4bay Efest LUC charger. 

It has a higher charging current so will be faster too.


----------



## Aahhyes68

psychbeat said:


> My WP6 II has started to glitch out a bit & I think I'm going to replace it with the new 4bay Efest LUC charger.
> 
> It has a higher charging current so will be faster too.



Thanks for the reply. I did a quick search and it doesn't get the greatest review for it's higher charge rate.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...f-Charger-Efest-LUC-V4&highlight=Efest+LUC+V4

Bummer...


----------



## Uncaged

Is the Nitecore IntelliCharger i4 Battery Charger - 2nd Generation, the best charger for 18650 batteries?

I'm also going to get some eneloop XX batteries for my other electronics at home. Has anyone used the IntelliCharger for the eneloops too?


----------



## thedoc007

Uncaged said:


> Is the Nitecore IntelliCharger i4 Battery Charger - 2nd Generation, the best charger for 18650 batteries?
> 
> I'm also going to get some eneloop XX batteries for my other electronics at home. Has anyone used the IntelliCharger for the eneloops too?



No, the Nitecore i4 is not the best charger, for any purpose. The nice thing about it, though, is that it does almost everything reasonably well. Not great for NiMH, but adequate, and good for lithium ion of many sizes. I use it primarily for 18650s, but I have used it for 14500s, and AA and AAA Eneloops also. And it is extremely easy to use, it does everything automatically, so you don't have to worry about setting the wrong mode. It also has reverse polarity protection, so if you manage to insert a cell backward, it won't do any harm (though I would not recommend doing this, of course.) It is also inexpensive given how many functions it can perform.


----------



## Camping guy

I just ordered a sc600 mkII l2, my first 18650 light. I've searched for quality batteries and am down to either aw or eagletac. Does anyone have first hand experience with this particular light and batteries? Will ET 3400 fit? Does anyone know of a legitimate dealer for AW batteries in Canada?I'm not into waiting for ground shipment from China...


----------



## thedoc007

Camping guy said:


> I just ordered a sc600 mkII l2, my first 18650 light. I've searched for quality batteries and am down to either aw or eagletac. Does anyone have first hand experience with this particular light and batteries? Will ET 3400 fit? Does anyone know of a legitimate dealer for AW batteries in Canada?I'm not into waiting for ground shipment from China...



I can confirm that Eagletac 3400s will fit just fine.


----------



## Camping guy

thedoc007 said:


> I can confirm that Eagletac 3400s will fit just fine.


Thanks Doc! AW in marketplace provided me legit Canadian distributors but they want $40 per cell (3400's) and I can get ET 3400's for $20 locally. I'm all for buying quality but from what I've read here the ETs will be just fine at half the price. It would be nice to have a Mercedes but a Volvo does the job and is safe too


----------



## thedoc007

Camping guy said:


> Thanks Doc! AW in marketplace provided me legit Canadian distributors but they want $40 per cell (3400's) and I can get ET 3400's for $20 locally. I'm all for buying quality but from what I've read here the ETs will be just fine at half the price. It would be nice to have a Mercedes but a Volvo does the job and is safe too



Um, yeah. $40 per cell is not paying for quality - that is price gouging. The Eagletac and the AW use the same base cell, after all. Both use Panasonic bare cells, the only difference is the protection circuit. And that difference is small.

Also be aware that some AW cells are flat-top (don't know which ones offhand). This means they won't work in as many lights as the button top Eagletacs. I would take the Eagletacs over the AW even if they were the same price.


----------



## N54

I ended up going with orbtronic protected 3400's and the xtar VP1....both of which get pretty good reviews. No fitment issues with my tk15 or pd35


----------



## marinemaster

I have been looking at the Panasonic 3100 and 3400. All i am finding on the ebay is 65 mm for unprotected flat top and 69mm protected button top.

I then looked on Zebra site and they have Panasonic 67mm protected FLAT top. They are $19

I trying to find the same Panasonic that ZL is selling but for less $, that is 67mm protected with flat top.

Does anyone have a good link ? Much appreciated.


----------



## erichpcandlepower

i have a fenix pd32ue and purchased 3400 orbtronics to go with it the fenix came with the fenix charger should i upgrade to a nitecore will it extend the life of my batteries?


----------



## HKJ

erichpcandlepower said:


> i have a fenix pd32ue and purchased 3400 orbtronics to go with it the fenix came with the fenix charger should i upgrade to a nitecore will it extend the life of my batteries?



If it is the ARE-C1 I would not upgrade for the Nitecore, but instead look for one of the better Xtar.


----------



## Camping guy

Just received my VP1 charger and I want to charge my Eagletac 18650 3400mah for the first time. The batteries are at 3.6v and I would like to know what is the optimal charge rate for runtime and overall long term longevity of the battery? Thanks again for your input


----------



## HKJ

Camping guy said:


> Just received my VP1 charger and I want to charge my Eagletac 18650 3400mah for the first time. The batteries are at 3.6v and I would like to know what is the optimal charge rate for runtime and overall long term longevity of the battery? Thanks again for your input



1A that is basically the case for all 18650 batteries (3400 has a rated charge current of 1625mA). If you have the time you can go lower and might gain a (very) small amount of extra lifetime.


----------



## Camping guy

HKJ said:


> 1A that is basically the case for all 18650 batteries (3400 has a rated charge current of 1625mAh). If you have the time you can go lower and might gain a (very) small amount of extra lifetime.



Thank you for the fast reply! Cheers


----------



## praveen dk

Hello everyone,
> I have fenix BC30 bike light and was having trouble choosing batteries for it.
> I now know that flat top protected batteries are best suited for it.i am having difficulties as there are various lengths avaiable
> can anyone suggest some good and economical options for the batteries suited for the fenix BC30 and where to buy them from.

Thanx in advance


----------



## StandardBattery

praveen dk said:


> Hello everyone,
> > I have fenix BC30 bike light and was having trouble choosing batteries for it.
> > I now know that flat top protected batteries are best suited for it.i am having difficulties as there are various lengths avaiable
> > can anyone suggest some good and economical options for the batteries suited for the fenix BC30 and where to buy them from.
> 
> Thanx in advance


You should only post your question in 1 thread, and it probably would have been better to post it on a truly related thread or new thread in the Bicycle sub-forum.

That said; even though you say _"I now know that flat top protected batteries are best suited for it"_, I happen to use SoShine button top 18650/3400mAh. Just because they happen to be what I had available in a matched pair and they are very cost effective. They fit the carrier for the BC30 perfectly.


----------



## satur9

Sagebrush said:


> Sanyo UR18650F 2600mAh Protected is my preference. $11.03 for two great high quality cells shipped from FastTech. They also have NCR18650B 3400's for $17 per set. Haven't found a better source for batteries anywhere. I have an I-4 charger and it terminates at 4.18, its a good budget unit, works fine and it can charge your AA's and such.


Hello, rookie here.

I ordered 2 sanyos from Fasttech as mentioned above. Could someone tell me how long they generally take to arrive in the US? I ordered on 11/22 & the tracking link from Fasttech is broken.

Also, I see a lot of mention of recharging in a fireproof box. Wouldn't this heat things up further being in an enclosed box with no air circulation?

Thank you.


----------



## pro_ohp

Its good choice to charge 18650 panasonic batteries 3400 mah with 1A charger?


----------



## tripplec

I got my batteries a few days ago. It took 10 weeks. Ridiculously long time. 
I am looking for some other cells 26650's but not sure about who is making a good high capacity protected cell. Maybe more 18650's but I am not waiting again anywhere near that long.


----------



## Ace12

Which is better between the Nitrcore D2 and the Xtar VP2?


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## thedoc007

Ace12 said:


> Which is better between the Nitecore D2 and the Xtar VP2?



I have both, but neither one is empirically better than the other. The D2 is more versatile, with support for NiMH, Ni-Cad, and lithium ion. If you just want one of the best dedicated lithium-ion chargers, the VP2 gives you 4.35 volt support, and can charge individual cells a bit faster. Both of them are easy to use, and terminate properly.


----------



## Ace12

Thanks doc


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## ScottJD

I have a XTAR after returning a Nitecore i4. This was because the i4 required you to charge 2 14500 at the same time or it would charge a single one at 750mAh which is to high for most smaller batteries. It also didn't hold my 26650 well.
With the D2 they solved this and now have a low current charge for smaller batteries with a button selection, I can't speak for the 26650 if they fit better in the D2 or not. But it looks like Nitecore did improve with the D series chargers over the I series. 
I do like the time tracking on Nitecore D series, something that my XTAR is missing. But my XTAR will charge at twice the power with 1A for my bigger cells. 

For me I already have an Eneloop charger that does individual cells so I didn't mind getting the XTAR VP2, and I also own a couple 3.8V Li-Ion 18650 cells so that was a plus for the XTAR for my use. And will charge my 18650 with 1A in half the time.
The one other odd plus for e XTAR is it can be used as a battery USB bank charger. I didn't know this until I bought it. Put a charged battery in bank one with the charger unplugged or incase of power failure, hold he button and plug you phone unto the USB port and it will charge your phone using that battery.

As doc said, both are good chargers is just a preference of what fits you better.
But if your charging smaller batteries like the 14500 I would stay away from the i4 and i2 and get the D series.


Scott


----------



## gopajti

Ace12 said:


> Which is better between the Nitrcore D2 and the Xtar VP2?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums




I highly recommend VP2, if need only a good li-ion charger. Overall, I think in this time VP2 is the best 2bay li-ion charger in market.


----------



## LightWalker

ScottJD said:


> I have a XTAR after returning a Nitecore i4. This was because the i4 required you to charge 2 14500 at the same time or it would charge a single one at 750mAh which is to high for most smaller batteries. It also didn't hold my 26650 well.
> With the D2 they solved this and now have a low current charge for smaller batteries with a button selection, I can't speak for the 26650 if they fit better in the D2 or not. But it looks like Nitecore did improve with the D series chargers over the I series.
> I do like the time tracking on Nitecore D series, something that my XTAR is missing. But my XTAR will charge at twice the power with 1A for my bigger cells.
> 
> 
> For me I already have an Eneloop charger that does individual cells so I didn't mind getting the XTAR VP2, and I also own a couple 3.8V Li-Ion 18650 cells so that was a plus for the XTAR for my use. And will charge my 18650 with 1A in half the time.
> The one other odd plus for e XTAR is it can be used as a battery USB bank charger. I didn't know this until I bought it. Put a charged battery in bank one with the charger unplugged or incase of power failure, hold he button and plug you phone unto the USB port and it will charge your phone using that battery.
> 
> As doc said, both are good chargers is just a preference of what fits you better.
> But if your charging smaller batteries like the 14500 I would stay away from the i4 and i2 and get the D series.
> 
> 
> Scott



Increasing the charge current from 0.5A to 1.0A will not cut the charge time in half, check HKJ's reviews at
http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers UK.html


----------



## ScottJD

LightWalker said:


> Increasing the charge current from 0.5A to 1.0A will not cut the charge time in half, check HKJ's reviews at
> http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers UK.html



I have checked his page, I've used it in many occasions with my purchasing decisions. 
His page and batteryuniversity.com. Battery university states "The higher the amperage of the charger, the shorter the charge time will be."

And when comparing these chargers I spoke of I see the XTAR charging completing in almost half the time unless I'm misunderstanding these graphs?

On the Nitecore D2 charger I'm looking at the graphs for Li-Ion using PA18650-31 charging at 0.5A and terminating charge completed at about 470 minutes.
http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Nitecore Digicharger D2 UK.html

With the XTAR charger I'm looking at the graphs for Li-Ion using PA18650-31 charging at 1A and terminating charge completed at about 210 minutes.
http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Xtar VP2 UK.html

Yes it's correct that near the last %30 of the charging process with CC/CV the amperage feed into the battery cuts back, especially once the current hits the cut off voltage in most LI-Ion that would be 4.2V (+\- 0.5).
But for the first %70 of the charge of the battery is rated for taking a higher amperage then it will take the full 1A and this is he time savings when charging the battery. 


Scott


----------



## LightWalker

ScottJD said:


> I have checked his page, I've used it in many occasions with my purchasing decisions.
> His page and batteryuniversity.com. Battery university states "The higher the amperage of the charger, the shorter the charge time will be."
> 
> And when comparing these chargers I spoke of I see the XTAR charging completing in almost half the time unless I'm misunderstanding these graphs?
> 
> On the Nitecore D2 charger I'm looking at the graphs for Li-Ion using PA18650-31 charging at 0.5A and terminating charge completed at about 470 minutes.
> http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Nitecore Digicharger D2 UK.html
> 
> With the XTAR charger I'm looking at the graphs for Li-Ion using PA18650-31 charging at 1A and terminating charge completed at about 210 minutes.
> http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Xtar VP2 UK.html
> 
> Yes it's correct that near the last %30 of the charging process with CC/CV the amperage feed into the battery cuts back, especially once the current hits the cut off voltage in most LI-Ion that would be 4.2V (+\- 0.5).
> But for the first %70 of the charge of the battery is rated for taking a higher amperage then it will take the full 1A and this is he time savings when charging the battery.
> 
> 
> Scott



It looks pretty close actually, I made my statement based on a statement HJK made in post #2 of this thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343010-Charging-a-18650
"Higher charge rate will increase the wear on the battery and doubling the charge current will not halve the charge time.", so I'm not sure now.


----------



## ScottJD

richard13 said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I'm new around here and I guess in general regarding this topic. I have, over the years, had many rechargeable batteries which have always been charged with the charger that came with them (i.e. Energizer, Duracell, etc.). Recently I noticed that some of my Duracell cells are dying quicker than they should. In my research over the past few days I've found that I can use better chargers (analyzers) that can not only help keep my batteries healthy but can also hint at what might be wrong.
> 
> After reading tons of articles both here and elsewhere online I have come down to these (in order of initial desirability). I'm wondering if any of the experts here can comment?
> 
> 
> By looking at this you might just say why are looking at the NC2500? The obvious clear winner is BC-2000, right? Well, not really. I really like the SkyRC model but I have concerns after looking over everything. If these are big concerns to others then maybe I'd dodge a bullet by not getting it. But if there's no real deal breakers I'd rather have it.
> 
> I realize the C9000 is likely a favorite with you guys and maybe it is the best choice. Just not from my eyes at the moment.
> 
> Please keep in mind I'm a noob so I don't have any of these already or lots of experience to know what's important and what's not. If you can help that would be great!
> 
> Thanks so much!
> 
> -Richard



Hi Richard,
I have a 5 year old Skyrc hobby charger and it's been good. I've recently looked into buying a new hobby charger for my bigger 3 cell LiPo packs and researched the ones with the BT and app but I keep reading mixed reviews. I think Skyrc is onto something with the remote monitoring and even gave up on blutooth and is now moving into wifi for more distance coverage. But I also think they have a few things to work out in the firmware with this new generation of chargers so I'm personally going to wait it out. Plus it also scares me that people would walk away from LiPo packs charging unattended. The app may make it easier to set up for what your charging but I'm still seeing issues and bugs being reported with some of the app BT Skyrc hobby chargers. 

Midnight recommended the Panasonic charger. I recently picked up a Costco pack with 10 AA and 4 AAA Eneloops for $23 and it came with the same charger he recommended. It does a good job charging and unlike other cheap ones will charge one bank at a time, so you don't have to have 2 batteries charging if you only need to charge one. It runs cool, no fan. May not be the fastest but is good for AA/AAA Ni-Mh batteries if that's all your looking to charge. 
I just couldn't pass up the combo pack and price, it was time to replace my 10 year old Royavac IC3 batteries.


Scott


----------



## HKJ

LightWalker said:


> It looks pretty close actually, I made my statement based on a statement HJK made in post #2 of this thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343010-Charging-a-18650
> "Higher charge rate will increase the wear on the battery and doubling the charge current will not halve the charge time.", so I'm not sure now.



And that is correct, but you can not directly compare chargers with different charge algorithms and termination conditions.


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## ScottJD

HKJ said:


> And that is correct, but you can not directly compare chargers with different charge algorithms and termination conditions.



Agreed, I was talking about my personal comparison of the Nitecore i4 and the XTAR charger. I didn't time the exact charging times but I can safely say it seemed about %40 faster. It was not my intention for a casual comment in my opinion between two chargers to be taken into a technical debate. 

For my personal use I run Samsung ICR18650-26D 2600mAh cells and according to the SDI for these cells the optimal charge rate is 1.3A (0.5C), they can be fast charged at 2.6A but it's also noted that this will decrease the capacity by %20 and probably wear more on the battery. But I would think if the battery designed to be charged at 1A then the wear would be minimum and not really noticed over the 500 charge cycles.

It's my understanding that the algorithm for most CC/CV chargers is the first %70 is charged at the full current provided or until the cutoff voltage is reached, in my case 1A current until 4.2V. Then the current is decreased as battery reaches full charge. If this %70 scenario is correct then logic would assume the battery would charge faster for the first %70 of the rated capacity?

Is this not correct? And if not then why are chargers made with the ability to charge at different currents? 


Scott


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## LightWalker

HKJ said:


> And that is correct, but you can not directly compare chargers with different charge algorithms and termination conditions.



Ok, I understand now, thank you.


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## HKJ

ScottJD said:


> It's my understanding that the algorithm for most CC/CV chargers is the first %70 is charged at the full current provided or until the cutoff voltage is reached, in my case 1A current until 4.2V. Then the current is decreased as battery reaches full charge. If this %70 scenario is correct then logic would assume the battery would charge faster for the first %70 of the rated capacity?



How much of a charge cycle is CC and CV depends on battery age/condition. If you check my current charge test the 2600mAh battery I am using is in CV most of the time.

The change from CC to CV is not always very sharp, some chargers starts tapering the charge current at 3.9 or 4.0 volt. It does not spoil the CC/CV charging, but it makes it slower.


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## hexrob

Hi all. I have an ultrfire WF-139 charger that Ive owned for many years and was used for charging 14500 and 16340's. I just ordered my first 18650 light, and was wondering if you guys think this charger is ok, or should I upgrade to something better? The light is a single cell 18650, but is expandable to a double.
Thanks, Hex


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## ScottJD

hexrob said:


> Hi all. I have an ultrfire WF-139 charger that Ive owned for many years and was used for charging 14500 and 16340's. I just ordered my first 18650 light, and was wondering if you guys think this charger is ok, or should I upgrade to something better? The light is a single cell 18650, but is expandable to a double.
> Thanks, Hex



Hex, congratulations on your first 18650 light. I have never used the Ultrafire charger you mentioned but after looking at the product descriptions on Amazon I have the following concerns. 
Does the light you order come with any 18650 batteries? FYI: Most of the cheaper lights that come with batteries are sending fake unprotected batteries with the lights and I would be careful using these batteries. 

One description stated:
"Application: For rechargeable battery 18650(but not for the one with protection board),14500,18500,17670,17500"
** This leads me to think it may not have enough space for 18650 with protection circuits. 

Another stated:
"Note: It was reported that the positive nodes of the charger is overly recessed into the top of the unit causing problems charging some 18650 batteries and a workaround for this is to bend a paperclip and use it as a filler between the node and your battery. In the meantime, the Ultrafire 18650 batteries charge fine with this charger as is."
** I would not recommend this and find it hard to believe this was even in the product descriptions. 

**My third concern is the amount of knock off and fakes of Ultrafire stuff on the market, yes they are a real company but a lot of dishonest companies have made fakes and used the name Ultrafire on flashlights, batteries, and chargers.
Recently my last 4 TrustFire 14500 cells came with unique serial numbers on each battery because TrustFire has the same problem with fake ones being sold and they might offer a way to check online soon with these new serialized batteries.

I also read that the old version of your charger had a trickle charger in the end, how old is yours? You don't want to trickle charge your cells, this could over charger them. Have a millimeter to check the voltage after charging to make sure they don't over charge. 

I would recommend only running protected 18650 batteries. You also mentioned that the light you ordered can accommodate 2 18650 with an extention insert. I would not recommend running multiple 18650 batteries this way, and especially if they are not protected. Unprotected multicell lights like you described with the Extention tube could lead to "thermal runaway". Depend on how you use the light I think you will find one quality protected cell is enough from most people.

A good write up about safety, batteries, chargers was found on this forum:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Using-Li-ion-cells-in-LED-flashlights-safely
It also specifically mentions some things about your charger model you said you currently own and may want to read those comments. 

Two other chargers were mentioned in this thread. I think they were NiteCore D2 and the XTAR VP2. XTAR is aware of the problem with people making knock off fakes and provides a scratch off serial number on the charger. You can check it on their main site to tell you if its new, used and authentic. Both are good chargers and I think will allow protected cells without any issues. They are slightly different so I would research both and find the one that fits your needs better. 


Scott


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## ChromeDog

*Inexpensive chargers for 18650's*

First post here. I've always searched this place for info on flashlights, though I'm not a legitimate flashlight hotrodder.
Recently someone sent me two very cool flashlights along with a few batteries and both a single charger and a double.
The single charger says "hr-186-4v2", the double says nothing except "charger." Both have wall-socket plugs built in
(they hang off the wall).

Needless to say, I don't trust either of them, though they've worked the few times that I've used them. I'd rather have
something with a cord, that I can isolate from the wall just in case of meltdown. And of course have a more reliable
known brand.

But I only have a few batteries, so I don't need anything extravagant or expensive. I'd rather spend on more batteries.
Anything come to mind? I have seen a lot of Nitecore chargers, but read a couple posts about overcharge.

BTW, the batteries that came with them are "UltraFire BRC-18650 400mAh" Ha! Yeah, I know the deal. They say
"protected" but I'm not sure about that. I ordered a couple OLight 3400mah's as a start. The OLights are slightly 
higher diameter but probably over 1/8" longer than the FakeFires. So again, I'm not sure they put any actual
protection in the latter.

BTW, the OLight 3400mah's were only about $24 for the pair. Thick, hard-to-open ink-printed bubble pack cards, 
so I doubt that they're fake. Price seems much better than most of what I've seen from NiteCore and others.


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## janx

*Best 18650's & Charger for a TN36vn?*

Hey guys I need some help with 18650 batteries and a decent charger. I have been collecting flashlights for several years, but I have never really messed with rechargeable batteries besides the battery packs in my Microfire. The light I need them for is a Thrunite TN36vn. I am looking for the best quality 18650's I can get and need a charger if you know of a deal or something. I have done some searching on here and am doing more as I type this, but if possible I would like an answer directed towards this exactly so I can be as safe as possible as I know very little about this subject and as bad as I want to play with a new light my daughter is always with me and wants to play too and I don't want to endanger her in any way. Willing to listen to any and all advice as like I said I am not familiar with these at all. Going to look around on here some more now, but thank you very much in advance!!

Josh


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## gopajti

chargers: XTAR VP4 or 2pcs VP2


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## jmcf1949

Fastech confirmed my last battery order on 1-3-15 and the package arrived in a Detroit, MI suburb two days ago. Not sure what the delay was caused by. Maybe U.S. customs or Homeland Security, who knows. The Fastech tracking link via Honk Kong Post never worked. But they always seem to arrive.

Jim


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## jedwards

*Re: Recommend me a 18650 battery and charger*



tacticalpineapple said:


> I called BatteriesPlus in MI today to see what 18650s they carried. The clerk recommended the BP private brand of 18650 called a Nuon. The clerk recommended this brand over Surefire which he claimed customers were constantly complaining about. I was skeptical of his dubious claim b/c I use Surefire 123s in my Fenix TK15 w/ great results. Also, I believe Selfbuilt did a review of the SF 123 and it scored highly, but I digress. I did some research online for Nuon batteries and found many reviews claiming Nuon is garbage. Looks like I won't be buying from BP in the near future.



I just tried a Nuon from BatteriesPlus and I can confirm this.

Details:

I'm using 4 18650s in series and a b3flex to drive 4 Cree XML-U2s at 3 amps.

Works fine with 4 TrustFire batteries.

One of my TrustFires got screwed up, I tried with 1 Nuon + 3 TrustFires. All were charged to > 4.15V. I worked at settings lower than 3 amps, but at 3 amps the Nuon's protection circuit kicked in and it measured 0V until I put it back into the charger for a moment.
When I tried my lamp again with 4 working TrustFires, no problem.


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