# Thrunite Catapult or Olight M21 Warrior?



## Biodarren (Nov 19, 2009)

I know they use the same emitter but the catapult is rated at much higher output. 
Which one is worthy of my hard earned cash???


----------



## emerald (Nov 19, 2009)

Good question.
I'm not so sure if I'm qualified to answer it.
From waht I'v read so far the
M21 weights 115 gr and has a reflector with a diameter of 40,2 mm.
The Catapult weights 390 gr. and has a reflector with a diameter of 58 mm.

So for me the weight is a factor to base the decision.

Hope this helps.
emerald

PS: The M21 is on top of my list and I hope to get it by next week.


----------



## MattK (Nov 19, 2009)

The Catapult is a much larger light with a larger reflector so it's mass allows the LED to be driven much harder.

Their fundamental character is very different. The M21 is a super bright tactical class light, the Catapult is a search/resuce thrower class light.

They're both great lights worthy of your cash - the deciding factor is what type of light you need.


----------



## NWdude83 (Nov 19, 2009)

Catapult = Christmas present to myself


----------



## richardcpf (Nov 20, 2009)

The catapult doesnt have anything special other than the emitter.. the beam is rather sharp so will not do very well at indoors or close range use.

Get the M21 if you had to choose between those 2.


----------



## MattK (Nov 20, 2009)

Sure it does - it's the only purpose built thrower in the large/multi-die class. It's really nicely put together, excellent fit/finish and ridiculously bright - it's not really made as an indoors light - that's what EDC's are for.

Like I said, apples and oranges.

Of course the simple answer is to buy them both!


----------



## stallion2 (Nov 20, 2009)

richardcpf said:


> The catapult doesnt have anything special other than the emitter.. the beam is rather sharp so will not do very well at indoors or close range use.
> 
> Get the M21 if you had to choose between those 2.


 
the obvious answer is both...duh. 
honestly, i don't have an M21 but i'm already sold on it since i have an M30 which is great and an M20 w/ the R2 which is the best $100 i've spent on a light. 
i did receive a Catapult last week and its great but not what i anticipated, however i'm by no means disappointed. judging by ThruNite's claims and beam shots i thought it would be like an amped up version of my A9. in reality, the beam pattern is more like overlapping the A9 and M30 so it works very well in close unlike the A9. 

3 things you may or may not like depending on preference:

>the tint is not white but more yellowish green. i did not expect this but do like it as its glare off the leaves and trees looks a little less artificial than a neutral/cool white.
>you'll have to use rechargeables, no primaries for the latest version.
>its heavy, but not what i would call cumbersome.

the beam pattern is great and makes the light far more practical than i thought it would be. now i'll have to finance an M21....

Matt...is it possible to swap the heads between the M20 and 21...or the tail cap for that matter?


----------



## MattK (Nov 20, 2009)

Hmm, I haven't tried swapping heads but I'd bet they LEGO. Whatchya thinking?


----------



## NWdude83 (Nov 20, 2009)

Shootout between the Wolf Eyes 6A MC-Explorer and the Olight M21 Warrior. :twothumbs


----------



## MattK (Nov 20, 2009)

WE claims more lumens and is 18650 only - CR123A's only for emergencies which tells me they're probably driving it harder and it probably has more total output - the Olight was 'detuned' to be CR123A safe/friendly.


----------



## Biodarren (Nov 20, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

I'm a serving Police officer in the UK and i just want the brightest, most practical torch (sorry, flashlight! lol) that i can carry everyday. A good mixture of flood and throw is what i'm after the most.

I'm using an MTE M3-2 Cree MC-E at the moment which i bought after i gave my Father my Q5 Solarforce (great throw but wanted more output). Although i'm relatively happy with the MTE, and it does push out the light, it certainly isnt in the 700 lumen bracket as advertised and being an MC-E emitter it has quite a poor throw.

The size of the head on the Catapult was my own minor concern but i think that is only a slight issue especially if it throws great.

I also considered a P7 as i heard that they were a great emitter but i couldnt find a decent one i liked.

My next purchase is going to be the one that i will keep for a long time and i have to be confident in it's ability before i spend my cash.

If anyone has any alternative suggestions other than these two that i could consider then please let me know!! 

By the way, i always love the dedication and knowledge on CPF, it makes a refreshing change from some forums!! lovecpf


----------



## MattK (Nov 20, 2009)

For a police officer the M21 is hands down a better choice for daily duty carry. You might also consider an M30 - but IMO the Catapult is too large for a duty light.


----------



## Phaserburn (Nov 20, 2009)

MattK said:


> For a police officer the M21 is hands down a better choice for daily duty carry. You might also consider an M30 - but IMO the Catapult is too large for a duty light.


 
Unless you've been carrying a Magcharger or Ultrastinger on your belt...


----------



## stallion2 (Nov 20, 2009)

MattK said:


> Hmm, I haven't tried swapping heads but I'd bet they LEGO. Whatchya thinking?


 
if i'm going somewhere i like to pack as light (weight) as possible. i thought it would be a benefit if i could take both heads but only one body and switch


----------



## MattK (Nov 20, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> Unless you've been carrying a Magcharger or Ultrastinger on your belt...



LOL - point made - you're right!


----------



## Biodarren (Nov 20, 2009)

For the amount of output that these lights put out i really am not too bothered about the extra wait of the catapult.

I have just seen the Solarforce Skyline on another thread. Has anyone got one of these or could be objective compared to the M21 or Thrunite?


----------



## Painful Chafe (Nov 21, 2009)

I got my M21 today. The beam is similar to my M30 with a large hot spot and bright spill. The spill is not as wide as the M30 and the transition from spot to spill is very smooth. It is not going to be anything close to a thrower. Just from a initial white wall hunt, it does produce lots of light for it's size. Comparing it to two lights I have with similar beam patterns, I would put it somewhere in the middle of my PD30 and my M30. 350 lumens, maybe a bit more. The beam is very good. It is smooth and centered. Fit and finish is typical Olight. I am looking forward to seeing what it can do outside tonight. I wish I could snap a couple of pictures for you, but my camera isn't working.


----------



## Biodarren (Nov 21, 2009)

I would love to see some beam shots if you can get a camera!!

I think i am swaying towards the Catapult at the moment. It just looks like a very well made light that should be able to put up with any potential knocks that may come its way when i'm on duty. Ive only ever had cree emitters though so i will be stepping into "unlightened" territory!!:candle:


----------



## Painful Chafe (Nov 21, 2009)

More info:

I see no output difference between 18650 and RCR123's. Though the difference is hard to see on other multi powered lights, I have seen a difference A/B'ing my T20C2 and T10LC2. 
I also notice no PWM on low and medium.

As far as my camera goes, the jack for the usb is broken, so I can't load pictures onto my computer. Sorry.


----------



## stallion2 (Nov 22, 2009)

Biodarren said:


> I would love to see some beam shots if you can get a camera!!
> 
> I think i am swaying towards the Catapult at the moment. It just looks like a very well made light that should be able to put up with any potential knocks that may come its way when i'm on duty.


 
i'll get some tonight...i have an M20 and M30 so i can do comparison shots.



Painful Chafe said:


> I got my M21 today. The beam is similar to my M30 with a large hot spot and bright spill. The spill is not as wide as the M30 and the transition from spot to spill is very smooth. It is not going to be anything close to a thrower. Just from a initial white wall hunt, it does produce lots of light for it's size. Comparing it to two lights I have with similar beam patterns, I would put it somewhere in the middle of my PD30 and my M30. 350 lumens, maybe a bit more. The beam is very good. It is smooth and centered. Fit and finish is typical Olight. I am looking forward to seeing what it can do outside tonight. I wish I could snap a couple of pictures for you, but my camera isn't working.


 
i haven't been able to find a thorough review on the M21 so i'll punish you w/ some questions. it sounds like you're less than impressed. i never expected it to have more flood than an M30 but does it at least have more throw? i was hoping it would have a beam more like the M20 but a lot brighter, now it sounds like its somewhere in between, yes/no? do you feel as though its a practical light? if you have to grab a light on short notice would this be one of the first you reach for? if not then what would you grab before this?


----------



## Painful Chafe (Nov 22, 2009)

The M30 actually has a little more throw, and the M30 isn't at all a thrower. The hotspot is very wide. I do like it for indoor use and if I was walking in woods. It does light up a room very nicely. If you are at all looking for throw, I would go with something else. I think it is a very good light for certain purposes. It is very bright for its size. There are probably some MC-E and P7's its size that are as bright, but they get very hot after a few minutes and I'm assuming the M21 will have better runtime. I've had the M21 running for about 15 and it only gets warm. 

It's not that I'm not impressed with it. I am. I was just hoping for a little more throw. Just imagine what an MC-E would look like in a light with a reflector the size of an M21. This does make perfect sense since the LED's are about the same size. If this is what you are after, I recommend it. If you are looking for a light with throw close to an M20, but brighter, the M21 is a totally different animal.


----------



## Painful Chafe (Nov 22, 2009)

I found a really good picture of a M20 Ti compared to a M20 R5 and Q5. This sums up pretty well what I'm seeing with the hotspot. The M21 does have a slightly larger reflector than the M20 Ti, so the throw/lux may be a little bit better.

M20Ti---M20 R2---M20 Q5







Here is the M20 Ti








And the M20 R2


----------



## ZRXBILL (Nov 22, 2009)

Thanks for the beam shots.
You wouldn't happen to have any taken between 100-150 ft. would you?


----------



## Painful Chafe (Nov 23, 2009)

Sorry, the pictures above were stolen from other peoples reviews. That is all I could find.


----------



## stallion2 (Nov 23, 2009)

Biodarren said:


> I would love to see some beam shots if you can get a camera!!
> 
> I think i am swaying towards the Catapult at the moment. It just looks like a very well made light that should be able to put up with any potential knocks that may come its way when i'm on duty. Ive only ever had cree emitters though so i will be stepping into "unlightened" territory!!:candle:


 
Here are some pics I said I would post yesterday, sorry for the delay.
I showed the M20 w/ both reflectors. The image does not adequately reflect that Catapult's true tint. It is far more yellowish, not unlike some of the high performance driving lamps you see on some vehicles, notably some PIAA's w/ the amber lenses. I hope this helps.








Painful Chafe said:


> The M30 actually has a little more throw, and the M30 isn't at all a thrower. The hotspot is very wide. I do like it for indoor use and if I was walking in woods. It does light up a room very nicely. If you are at all looking for throw, I would go with something else.


 
Thanks for the information...it proved to be extremely helpful. So the M30 can out throw the M21??? That seems like a wasted opportunity for Olight considering the amount of buzz the SST-50 and 90 have generated. If you're gonna revamp the M20 w/ the new LED it seems obvious to make it brighter, which they've done. But I would think they would want to design the light to outperform their M30 in some fashion. Throw would have seemed the obvious factor to address, especially when you consider that Olight has no dedicated thrower in their product line. I'm not saying the M21 should have been a dedicated thrower but it doesn't take much to out throw an M30. It does sound like an extremely practical light but I've got that covered. 

I decided to opt for Dereelight's DBS V3 w/ the MC-E. I also ordered and R2 pill (WG bin) and an SMR reflector. I figure that w/ 4 possible configurations that I should be able to get at least 2 different lights from one base unit. And then there is also the aspheric head...which are just plain fun. Thanks again for the info, Painful Chafe...that might be the first time I've ever typed the word "chafe."


----------



## MattK (Nov 24, 2009)

To make the M21 a thrower the reflector would have been too big and taken the light out of the tactical size class. Most 'tactical' situations take place in a relatively short range, not over distance, so a dedicated thrower doesn't make sense for tactical applications.


----------



## droeun (Nov 24, 2009)

stallion2 said:


> Thanks for the information...it proved to be extremely helpful. So the M30 can out throw the M21??? That seems like a wasted opportunity for Olight considering the amount of buzz the SST-50 and 90 have generated. If you're gonna revamp the M20 w/ the new LED it seems obvious to make it brighter, which they've done. But I would think they would want to design the light to outperform their M30 in some fashion. Throw would have seemed the obvious factor to address, especially when you consider that Olight has no dedicated thrower in their product line. I'm not saying the M21 should have been a dedicated thrower but it doesn't take much to out throw an M30. It does sound like an extremely practical light but I've got that covered.



How much bigger is the M30's reflector compared to the M21? I think the M30 vs K50 might be a better comparison.


----------



## Biodarren (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks a lot for all of the beam shots. Really good.

I 'WAS' just about to buy the Catapult as it looks like the better performing light overall. However, this may be a minor point to some, but, i've noticed that the Olight comes with various extras, including a holster. This is quite important to me as i have to carry it for up to 12 hours a day. The catapult is 'that' much bigger than my MTE that i doubt very much whether it will fit in my existing holster.

Does anyone know of a decent holster that will hold this securely??

Many thanks again for all of your help so far


----------



## stallion2 (Nov 24, 2009)

droeun said:


> How much bigger is the M30's reflector compared to the M21? I think the M30 vs K50 might be a better comparison.


 
head dia: 36mm, 40.2mm, 43.5mm 
the M20, M21, M30 respectively

as far as the K50 or 90 goes who can tell? i've given up speculating on what they'll be like...only makes me more impatient. if there are more specifics beyond the emitters they're using then i've yet to find it.



Biodarren said:


> Thanks a lot for all of the beam shots. Really good.
> 
> I 'WAS' just about to buy the Catapult as it looks like the better performing light overall. However, this may be a minor point to some, but, i've noticed that the Olight comes with various extras, including a holster. This is quite important to me as i have to carry it for up to 12 hours a day. The catapult is 'that' much bigger than my MTE that i doubt very much whether it will fit in my existing holster.
> 
> ...


 
yeah...selling the lights as a kit of sorts is pretty cool. initially i was happy my M30 would have a small case to put it in for travel. i wish all my lights were like that. eventually i'm gonna have to get a Pelican case or some affordable knockoff. too bad there isn't a diffuser for the M21. i use the one for my M30 a lot more than i thought i would.


----------



## Painful Chafe (Nov 25, 2009)

I am actually liking this light more an more. The wide spot is great indoors. The spill is moderately wide bright. I just 
had high hopes in the 500 lumens claim, and hoped the larger deaper reflector gave it more throw. If Olight came out with this light and stated it outputs 350 lumes, I still would have purchased it. That is where most of me beef is. 

But what is does, it does well with Olight's top tier quality.​


----------



## Direwolf (Dec 16, 2009)

There are quite a lot of choices in flashlights out there with pros & cons in all of them. ThruNite only produced a good quality keychain light before the Catapult and wanted to produce a high quality search & rescue flashlight using the latest SST-50 led. I'm sure there are flashlights now that equal or better it's performance in so many ways and there will be flashlights to come that will surpass it. For now I'm glad I made the right choice in getting the Catapult, I think they have created an excellent flashlight with it's build,looks and finish,despite any picky 'faults'. They have stated in another thread that they will probably be bringing a holster out next year and possibly a diffuser, someone else in another thread have found a holster that works for now, you'll have to search for that one though.


----------



## Biodarren (Dec 17, 2009)

Direwolf, thanks for the input. I was really impressed with the catapult and all of the specs, UNTIL, i read about the output from only a single battery is almost half as with the extension tube. This is a big factor for me. I am not able to carry a torch which is so long on my belt and it seems like a compromise. I think that i will probably order the Olight now.


----------



## Cleron (Dec 17, 2009)

The Catapult is not flexible enough for what you probably want. The tail "clicky" is the only way to change the levels, and frankly it's an awkward design, if you intend to use the extender at least. Even with out the extender I'm still not sure it's the right light you are looking for. Brightness is not always the best thing to go by. Most LEDS have a very "white" tint that dose not display colors overly well. It's great for lighting up a room, or a foot path, but if you want color rendition you need to look at a light with a more yellow tint in the lower K like 4000-5000k rather then the 6k most leds tend to come in at. Sadly I'm not the biggest incan fan, but I'm sure others might be able to come up with something along those lines.

In terms of the lights i own & can speak for (mostly leds, or huge incans) i feel the Lumapower MVP dose an over all better job then any of the other led search lights i have tried/bought (Including the Catapult). It has fantastic build quality & a second clicky for mode changing that makes it far more flexible (in my opinion) on the fly then the Catapult. It has a nice balance between flood & throw, but it's still a bit on the big side, although it is smaller & i believe lighter then the catapult.

The only light that i "own" that comes close to what you would probably want is somewhat expensive. I own a JetBeam "TI" TC-R3 that's pretty small, but still puts out 250L. It has the advantage of having a rotary switch as well as a tail clicky that offers fantastic flexibility on the move. You can jump between settings if your fast enough, and while it's not as bright as the M21 it's not quite as awkward to hold, unless you intend to "always" use the tactical hold. It's certainly small enough & light enough, and even bright enough for what you probably want. I believe Jet beam have a standard version of some sort out their right now that should be much cheaper.

As for the M21 i don't own it. I do have the "little brother" M20 witch is a fine light, but i always found the rotary switch on the Jet Beam far more practical when I'm out and about. Swiveling the head on the M20 to change modes can be somewhat annoying. I'm not sure if the M21 uses the same system, but it's worth finding out.


----------



## Direwolf (Dec 17, 2009)

Ignore this,the internet screwed up my posting.See below.


----------



## Direwolf (Dec 17, 2009)

Biodarren said:


> Direwolf, thanks for the input. I was really impressed with the catapult and all of the specs, UNTIL, i read about the output from only a single battery is almost half as with the extension tube. This is a big factor for me. I am not able to carry a torch which is so long on my belt and it seems like a compromise. I think that i will probably order the Olight now.


 
I have not found the output to be much different in single and two battery mode.With two batteries you probably get about 20% more throw and of course longer run time but about the same spill. I would liked to have had a ring switch on the Catapult like the Jetbeam Raptor and Fenix TA21, a definate improvement and easier to control, but I was after a thrower. Before splashing out on the Cat I had short listed other contenders like Eagletac M series,Jetbeam Raptor,Fenix TK40 and Olight M30 Triton. The Triton I found seems to suffer from PWM flicker, the TK40, though a good thrower, has too light a construction and too many (though more common, readily available) batteries, the Jetbeam Raptor, a close contender,nice looks and construction but not much of a thrower and the Eagletac Ms, a very close contender with it's ring switch and throw, but the Catapult won in the end with it's construction,built to last (I hope) it's weight and heft,it's looks and finish, a new on the block SST-50 led and included extention tube. Some people have complained about the yellow corona around the centre beam but I don't shine the light off of white walls to look at it, it probably enhances green foliage at night and is probably down to the SST-50 led type. So, there is just as much light output with single battery,just a fraction less throw and a shorter run time. ThruNite finally chose the tail clicky to be cycling through the modes in momentry with full on first, then with full click on,high first then dimmer with each click then strobe, no memory, but always high on with first click. Good luck in your final choice, it's horses for courses. Have you chased up the other threads in the forum on the Catapult.


----------



## HKJ (Dec 17, 2009)

Direwolf said:


> I have not found the output to be much different in single and two battery mode.



Visually they might be closed, but a measurement shows a rather large difference. On my Catapult medium and high measures the same output on a single battery, but with two batteries the high output is 70% more than medium output.


----------



## Biodarren (Dec 17, 2009)

I have looked and looked at all of the posts that i can find about the catapult and they all say that it is a good flashlight but, and i know that you disagree Direwolf, but the measurements of the output are pretty conclusive.

I think im talking myself out of most of these lights unfortunately.

It cant be _THAT_ hard to find a good light that will last me!!! 
Ho hum, i will continue with my quest i think a bit more. Maybe wait for another manufacturer to produce a flashlight with the SST-50 (or maybe SST-90) emitter. 

I have just noticed this though
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.31869
Unfortunately it will not fit in my holster for work. Looks interesting though!!!


----------



## berry580 (Dec 17, 2009)

as a patrol light, i can't see why would you need a something in the 2x18650 format.

just get something like TK-11 or Jet-III M, they'll be easier to carry, and can easily throw past 100 metres. What's your experience of tracking suspects at that range?

SSTs although on paper they're technologically superior, but if you look at empirical data (say Selfbuilt's reviews), they're not driven hard enough to take advantage of things. e.g. the catapault and the M1X actually has very similar overall output.

So to be short, don't feel pressed to buy lights with SSTs as you probably won't benefit much more than with lights using XR-Es, you're not missing out THAT much.


----------



## Direwolf (Dec 18, 2009)

Biodarren said:


> I have looked and looked at all of the posts that i can find about the catapult and they all say that it is a good flashlight but, and i know that you disagree Direwolf, but the measurements of the output are pretty conclusive.
> 
> I think im talking myself out of most of these lights unfortunately.
> 
> ...


 
The Cat might be a bit big for a duty light anyway, maybe,maybe you should look at a smaller light that is well built like the offerings from Streamlight, Pelican, Microfire or Surefire or possibly Jetbeam and Fenix, or the Neofab Legion II the brightest single led flashlight in the world! A good larger thrower seems difficult to find to have all the virtues your looking for in a flashlight, just have to keep looking. The one your looking at on Dealextreme,the UniqueFire UF-1500 Cree SST-50 5-Mode 1250-Lumen Memory LED Flashlight, I don't know, have you Googled this one, there's not much on it and I don't think anyone has reviewed it yet. It could be your average dubious chinese manufacture and depends how well it's made and put together, it's cheaper,but cheap is not allways best and for a duty light you want something durable,rugged and dependable. I know the Thrunite has been developed and made in Hong Kong but the quality seems to be there, I hadn't got round to testing the Cat in single and two battery mode, I'm not really into that. You could check out the Aurora SSC AK-P7-5 900 Lumen, there's some vids posted on youtube too, also you can't always go on manufacturers lumen ratings. If you get anything through Dealextreme be prepared for a long wait, I ordered my batteries,charger and small pocket light through them, it took nearly three weeks for the batteries for my Cat in one package, a few days later my charger arrived but no pocket light, still waiting, been a month now, but checking online it is being shipped, so things will be slow but you'll get your stuff.
Just trying to help a fellow Brit, I used to live next door to Kent, in Hastings for 18 yrs before emigrating over to here and getting hitched. Good luck on your quest.


----------



## zemmo (Dec 18, 2009)

Biodarren said:


> Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
> 
> 
> If anyone has any alternative suggestions other than these two that i could consider then please let me know!!
> ...



Did you look at the Lumapower D mini VX Ultra? It also uses the SST-50 emitter.


----------



## stallion2 (Dec 18, 2009)

zemmo said:


> Did you look at the Lumapower D mini VX Ultra? It also uses the SST-50 emitter.


 
that light is looking better and better to me everyday. 



Biodarren said:


> I have just noticed this though
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.31869
> Unfortunately it will not fit in my holster for work. Looks interesting though!!!


 
at that price it would probably be worth it even if you have to fix a few issues. likely not the safest choice for use . i spent a couple weeks going through DX before my uncle and i ordered a bunch of random stuff. as i recall, the Uniquefire lights in general were being given lower reviews than i was seeing for Ultrafires, MTE, etc.

if you're not completely hellbent on getting a light w/ an SST then the Dereelights might be worth a look. i bought the DBS V3 w/ an MC-E & OP installed, a 2nd pill (R2) and the SMO and it was like having 4 different lights (3 in a practical sense). i was so blown away i ordered a 2nd DBS head and a complete CL1H the next week which tripled the number of lights i have, just not all at once. and i assure you that in the coming months somebody will have an SST pill that will take you a minute to install. i've been keeping my eyes peeled.

FYI - i have Thrunight's X-PG R5 dropin retro fit to my DBS since last night...HOLY SH*T!!! AWESOME!!!


----------



## ZRXBILL (Dec 18, 2009)

stallion2.....Where did you get the modded drop in X-PG R5 for the DBS?


----------



## Light11 (Dec 18, 2009)

you might wanna consider a M30 with 2x18500.


----------



## stallion2 (Dec 19, 2009)

ZRXBILL said:


> stallion2.....Where did you get the modded drop in X-PG R5 for the DBS?


 

no mods to the engine itself. its Thrunite's standard drop-in. the shape of the pill is a little weird if you haven't seen it up close. it doesn't narrow as it extends down from the threads, its just a straight, cylinder shape. not sure why it was done that way, it limits the number of P60's in which it could be used effectively. i just took a piece of copper wire, wound it once around the pill right against the bottom edge of the reflector and it worked perfect in my CL1H V4. i didn't have to do anything for it to work in the DBS other than adjust how far the head assembly was screwed on but its working great now.


----------



## redliner (Dec 19, 2009)

Stallion2, does this drop-in work with the OP or SM reflector? Also whats the difference in beam? I'm looking to get a Dereelight DBS V3 but I want the best spill combo I can get. Out of all the different setups you have for this light which one gives the best spill? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks.


----------



## stallion2 (Dec 20, 2009)

redliner said:


> Stallion2, does this drop-in work with the OP or SM reflector? Also whats the difference in beam? I'm looking to get a Dereelight DBS V3 but I want the best spill combo I can get. Out of all the different setups you have for this light which one gives the best spill? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks.


 
no prob, questions = respect. just get both reflectors for the DBS and be done w/ it, you'll want to later on anyways. they only have one SMR for the DBS and its a purpose-built thrower, thats it. not much spill is present. they have two OPRs, one for their XR-E pills and one for the MC-E pills (which has a slightly more aggresive tecture the other). i asked Jay at flashlightconnection about the OPR for the XR-Es and it didn't really seem like it was worth getting. as far as versatility goes, the OPR for the MC-E will be best and it'll work just as well for any of the pills.

that XP-G dropin from Thrunite came w/ an OPR. i wasn't really happy w/ that reflector, too much spill. i don't think it really exploits the advantages of the XP-G. thats when i started trying it out w/ all my other P60 reflectors w/ marginal success, only one of them seemed to concentrate the beam w/out losing too much of the light. the other reflectors are all built to accomodate the larger XR-E so there's alot of space between the emitter and edge of the opening, but the real problem is that the back of those reflectors are all thicker and the XP-G doesn't protrude into the reflector as far. tends to leave a sharp cut-off at the outer edge of the beam. then i tried it in the SMR for the DBS and it looked awesome.


----------



## ateallthepies (Dec 20, 2009)

Biodarren, as a UK officer, is using a hefty torch for the purpose of defence/quelling an aggressive person allowed?
I know you are issued with those telescopic batton thingamajigs and deploying them has some effect on a persons behaviour, but is there anything stopping you coshing someone with your torch? 

I mean when searching around, do you walk round with torch in one hand and batton in the other? If you only have the torch deployed and you are attacked out of the dark, is not your torch your only to hand weapon and thus should be substantial?


Steve.


----------



## agedbriar (Dec 20, 2009)

The specs for the M21 say: "Anti-shattering ultra clear lens, anti-scratching and anti-slip", but the lens base material isn't mentioned.

Is it glass?


----------



## MattK (Dec 21, 2009)

stallion2 said:


> XP-G dropin from Thrunite came w/ an OPR. i wasn't really happy w/ that reflector, too much spill. i don't think it really exploits the advantages of the XP-G.



Color me confused. The XP-G's are much floodier than the XP-E's so why is an OP reflector not working the XP-G to it's advantages? To me it looks like the stock SF P60L beam - but 5 times brighter/whiter.



agedbriar said:


> The specs for the M21 say: "Anti-shattering ultra clear lens, anti-scratching and anti-slip", but the lens base material isn't mentioned.
> Is it glass?


Yes - glass.


----------



## stallion2 (Dec 21, 2009)

MattK said:


> Color me confused. The XP-G's are much floodier than the XP-E's so why is an OP reflector not working the XP-G to it's advantages? To me it looks like the stock SF P60L beam - but 5 times brighter/whiter.


 
i'm kinda confused about it now, myself. a day or so after that earlier post i read a post by csshih on the review thread for that Thrunite dropin saying it was more for flood because the emitter was a little bigger. to me they look to be about the say size but the dome present on the XR-Es is far bigger which i would think should help disperse the light a little more before it gets to the reflector. i put that XP-G pill in all my different P60 reflectors and they all lowered performance except for one. at the time i figured i was lucky to have one that sharpened the beam a little since all of them were designed to work w/ XR-Es. as i understand it, the smaller the orgin from which a light source emanates then the better it will be for a throwing application. after reading the XP-G dropin review thread i'm left scratching my head. in any case, that XP-G installed in my DBS V3 has a beam pattern that is virtually identical to the R2 i normally use w/ it. it may also have a brighter hotspot but its tough to tell w/ their different tints. i would like to know what it is that i'm missing about the geometry of the XR-E vs the XP-G.


----------



## MattK (Dec 21, 2009)

Forget about the dome size - it's not relevant since they differ in shape/form.

The XP-G's have a 125 degree viewing angle compared to 90 degrees for the XR-E's so the hotspots are much broader an an XP-G. Because of this wider viewing angle, a product of the XP-G's much larger DIE they're not as suited to 'throw' oriented lights as an XR-E. That said, they're optically superior in every way and make a much more balanced, usable beam - better than the Luxeons ever were as well - and they were the high water mark optically even when the Crees surpassed them in output.


----------



## Beampower (Dec 21, 2009)

The Olight M21 Warrior!!


----------



## stallion2 (Dec 21, 2009)

MattK said:


> Forget about the dome size - it's not relevant since they differ in shape/form.
> 
> The XP-G's have a 125 degree viewing angle compared to 90 degrees for the XR-E's so the hotspots are much broader an an XP-G. Because of this wider viewing angle, a product of the XP-G's much larger DIE they're not as suited to 'throw' oriented lights as an XR-E. That said, they're optically superior in every way and make a much more balanced, usable beam - better than the Luxeons ever were as well - and they were the high water mark optically even when the Crees surpassed them in output.


 
thanks for the clarification, Matt. i failed to mention that i had tried it w/ the aspheric head on my DBS a couple of days ago...the results were tragic....but the beam pattern did look pretty cool.


----------



## BigT504 (Dec 21, 2009)

I have to say, I'm a little new to the flashlight hobby, but I received my Catapult last week, and LOVE it. 

Pros:

1. REALLY sturdy, really thick walls, great grip, thick lense thats protected well, waterproofing seems nice
2. Great throw, lit up the side of a dark building at 387 yds. No joke. 
3. Spill is much better than I thought indoors, lights my basement up better than my mag 3D Led or my Fenix pd30.
4. Really high output with SST-50 (not up to date on tech specs though)
5. Beautiful reflector
6. Though I havent had to call, they seem to have great customer service based on how they follow and respond on these forums

Cons:

1. Don't care much for the switch, You have to cycle it completely to switch modes. I like the soft touch feature on my other lights. but I want it on high most of the time anyways.
2.Lack of use for primary cells, I'm not to keen on 18650s.

For an officer, I think weight, and head diameter would be a problem to carry all the time. The head is the same size as Mag 3D. But this is a sweet light, so I'm casting my vote for this

P.S.: I agree, there isnt hardly any visible difference with one battery or two, and bottom line this light should make top 3 of 2009 in its class IMO based on what I've read. And the tint is a little more yellowish ( barely) which I Like.


----------



## MattK (Dec 21, 2009)

Hi BigT504!

I just wanted to address one of your cons - the ones about lack of primaries; 
the issue is that no primary cell can deliver the necessary current safely. Okay wait - something like half a dozen D cells could but they'd still sag heavily and of course the light would be monstrously huge and heavy. A pile of CR123A's (like 8 of em)could do it too but then the voltage range would need to be too wide on the light and it wouldn't be as efficient on any battery setup.


----------



## BigT504 (Dec 21, 2009)

MattK said:


> Hi BigT504!
> 
> I just wanted to address one of your cons - the ones about lack of primaries;
> the issue is that no primary cell can deliver the necessary current safely. Okay wait - something like half a dozen D cells could but they'd still sag heavily and of course the light would be monstrously huge and heavy. A pile of CR123A's (like 8 of em)could do it too but then the voltage range would need to be too wide on the light and it wouldn't be as efficient on any battery setup.


 
That makes sense. I should clarify, it is just a con to ME i think because it is my first 18650 light, and I've been reading all the safety concerns with Lithium batteries . Month from now I may have a different opinion. 
Thanks Matt, btw I think you following these forums really says something good about your company. Keep up the good work


----------



## MattK (Dec 21, 2009)

Just keep using protected batteries and try not to charge unattended and you should be fine! 

The Thrunite Catapult is a heck of a first 'real' light - most folks usually start 'smaller' with a tactical class light ala Olight M20 or Fenix TK11. You, clearly, do not mess around!

Thanks BigT504 - we work really hard to stay on top of these things - it's nice when folks notice.


----------



## redliner (Dec 22, 2009)

Stallion2, I noticed in another thread you have a Olight M30. How does that compare to the Deree DBS V3? I also see you have a Catapult too. Did you get the OP reflector for that? If so, how does it compare to the M30 and DBS in spill and throw? My main concern is short (less than 10 meters) and intermediate (10 to 30 meters). Thanks.


----------



## stallion2 (Dec 23, 2009)

redliner said:


> Stallion2, I noticed in another thread you have a Olight M30. How does that compare to the Deree DBS V3? I also see you have a Catapult too. Did you get the OP reflector for that? If so, how does it compare to the M30 and DBS in spill and throw? My main concern is short (less than 10 meters) and intermediate (10 to 30 meters). Thanks.


 

the M30 is completely different from the other two. its extremely bright but has little throwing ability. by the time its 30m out your hotspot is gone. it'll still give some usable light for another 5-10m but its from the high output rather than the reflector. i didn't get the OP for the Cat only because it wasn't in stock at the time. after seeing the light w/ the SMR and the amount of spill that is still being provided i'm in no hurry to get the OP...i'm sure i will eventually


----------



## HKJ (Dec 23, 2009)

redliner said:


> Stallion2, I noticed in another thread you have a Olight M30. How does that compare to the Deree DBS V3? I also see you have a Catapult too. Did you get the OP reflector for that? If so, how does it compare to the M30 and DBS in spill and throw? My main concern is short (less than 10 meters) and intermediate (10 to 30 meters). Thanks.



You can compare the DBS and M30 in this beamshot: http://www.lygte-info.dk/review/Beamshot 22 2009-09 UK.html


----------



## Biodarren (Dec 26, 2009)

ateallthepies said:


> Biodarren, as a UK officer, is using a hefty torch for the purpose of defence/quelling an aggressive person allowed?
> I know you are issued with those telescopic batton thingamajigs and deploying them has some effect on a persons behaviour, but is there anything stopping you coshing someone with your torch?
> 
> I mean when searching around, do you walk round with torch in one hand and batton in the other? If you only have the torch deployed and you are attacked out of the dark, is not your torch your only to hand weapon and thus should be substantial?
> ...



Hi Steve
When i am using my light i do not have my ASP (baton) drawn, if i did then i would have to fill out a 'use of force' form!!! Paperwork jungle!!!!

I have not considered whether i would need to use my torch as a cosh....I guess that if i needed to, and it was already in my hand, then i would not hesitate to improvise I do tend to carry my light in my left hand which leaves my right hand free to draw my ASP or PAVA (spray).

This thread has grown loads since my last post, its so good to see people take the time and effort to read all of the posts and to reply with so much useful information, Thanks guys.

Its boxing day, Happy Xmas BTW!, and i am still searching and comparing reviews of all the lights mentioned here. 
Keep up the suggestions. I will throw another light into the mix (i know, foolish! lol ) the Olight K50. Im not even sure if it is out yet, but it does look VERY interesting. 

I am swaying back towards the Catapult though!! Wish it came with a holster.


----------



## Olef (Dec 26, 2009)

As I have both the M21 and the Catapult on the desk next to me here I thought I would offer some insight, hope you find it useful...

Comparing the M21 and the Cat could be likened to comparing a hand held extinguisher to a fire hose. They both do the same basic thing but they are no way alike.

M21 = 5.5", pocketable, light, bright but floody. Not much bigger than your fingers when held in a clenched fist.

Cat = 10", head and body diameter approaching double the M21, weight considerably more. Held in a fist more than 6" of light protrudes. Very bright output, tight and throwy. Limited use at close range.

For a light to carry easily on a belt holster to use at short / medium range - M21.

For a real searchlight, solidly built with enough heft to inspire confidence whatever you are facing - Catapult.

Bottom line, I don't think comparisons between these two lights are valid as their design is so different. They both do what they do very well and it's up to you to choose which one suits your perceived usage better.

Of course the CPF adage is 'get both', I did, and do not regret either. They are both fine additions to a collection and both are quality lights and very useful in their own ways.

Olef


----------



## MattK (Dec 26, 2009)

Olef said:


> Comparing the M21 and the Cat could be likened to comparing a hand held extinguisher to a fire hose. They both do the same basic thing but they are no way alike.
> 
> 
> Bottom line, I don't think comparisons between these two lights are valid as their design is so different. They both do what they do very well and it's up to you to choose which one suits your perceived usage better.
> ...



LOL - well said!


----------



## amc (Dec 26, 2009)

Biodarren......I may be butting in here and most of you may have seen this thread already but it does`nt sound like it to me and this should definitely convince you the Thrunight Catapult is the way to go. This link clearly shows that the Catapult with only 1 battery outdoes the M21 using 2 18650`s in both reach and flood. You will have to have your mouse hovering over the pause button as you only get 2 or 3 seconds of each flashlight`s performance but it does show you the Catapult`s and M21`s output with both 1 and 2 batteries.

The flashlight`s output that surprised me the most though for it`s size and only 230 lumens is the 4sevens Quark 123 Turbo. What a little beauty.

Hope this has been of help to you. Happy New Year to you all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2KU7tdd2U


----------



## Flashlites R Us (Jan 6, 2010)

richardcpf said:


> The catapult doesnt have anything special other than the emitter.. the beam is rather sharp so will not do very well at indoors or close range use.
> 
> Get the M21 if you had to choose between those 2.


 

richardcpf, 

if one selects the LOW (or MEDIUM) mode on the Catapult it WILL "do very well at indoors or close range use"


----------



## Flashlites R Us (Jan 6, 2010)

Biodarren said:


> Hi Steve
> When i am using my light i do not have my ASP (baton) drawn, if i did then i would have to fill out a 'use of force' form!!! Paperwork jungle!!!!
> 
> I have not considered whether i would need to use my torch as a cosh....I guess that if i needed to, and it was already in my hand, then i would not hesitate to improvise I do tend to carry my light in my left hand which leaves my right hand free to draw my ASP or PAVA (spray).
> ...


 


Hi Biodarren,

"baton drawn" "I would have to fill out use of force form"???? 

Sheeeeeesh....for all that "paperwork jungle" trouble your employer SHOULD issue you a HUGE gun that holds at least 30 bullets and 10 extra loaded magazines..................to at least make it WORTH YOUR WHILE.


----------



## wfturnerm4 (Mar 10, 2011)

They are a huge size difference
I do love the compact M21 and it has plenty of light

Post number three, lets hope this site gets back to normal


----------

