# Duracell Precharged AA 2400mah, made in Japan. Sanyo LSD???



## Divine_Madcat (Aug 27, 2013)

So, I am hoping people might be able to shed some light on these. Just was at target, looking for any last clearance duraloops, and saw rows of new Duracells. 

In looking at them, what caught my eyes, was that while they are black tops, the batteries and package say made in Japan. I willget a pic I a few, but here is the info from the cells....
Black top, button has vents (4 decent size)
Bottom is bead blasted ( like eneloops)
Side reads " HR6/NiMH 1.2v/2400mah" and made in Japan
They are marked as Precharged, rechargeable (duh).
The back states 400 recharges and holds its charge for a year

So, given how close they are to XX.. and they still have eneloop like looks, any chance Duracell is using thrm, or something like them?


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 27, 2013)

I was in a Miami Target last week and bought the last three AA Duraloops that they had out for $3.65 ea. and didn't even bother looking at anything else, I was in such a hurry to get the party started.

This w/e, I went to a Target Super Store and they were sold out of the DLs, but they did have the newer black topped Duracell 400x dohickeys there, but I didn't take the time to study them, so I don't know what they state on the package. They were on sale for something like $10.50/4 pack, IIRC.

I think that Duracell markets a 2450 and now a 2650 mAh rechargeable battery, so keep that in mind, but if that krinkled base plate is there, that's a tell tale sign that Sanyo is making them. I have a set of Sanyo 2700 HSDs here and they have the same krinkled '-' plate as the Eneloops.

Chris


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## Divine_Madcat (Aug 27, 2013)

I know of the 2450.. These are 2400 with a sanyo like 2 step matte base. And the package says precharged, and holds it for a year ( so I assume lsd). But the kicker is the made in Japan. 

I will get pics ASAP.


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## Divine_Madcat (Aug 27, 2013)

http://s958.photobucket.com/user/Divine_Madcat/library/?sort=3&page=1

these are the quick shots...
The bats read 1.3v or of the package


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## jtr1962 (Aug 28, 2013)

I bought 8 of these off eBay last week. Results of the break-in test on my Maha MH-C9000 charger are as follows:

cell #1 - 2559 mAh
cell #2 - 2555 mAh
cell #3 - 2543 mAh
cell #4 - 2597 mAh
cell #5 - 2507 mAh
cell #6 - 2521 mAh
cell #7 - 2531 mAh
cell #8 - 2519 mAh


All cells exceeded their 2400 mAh rating by over 4%. The average capacity was 2541.5 mAh, nearly 6% above rated capacity. Also note the small variation in capacity-only 90 mAh between the best and worst cells. In short, these are as good as Eneloops as far as consistency goes. It remains to be seen how they fare as far as durability and self-discharge. I'll note that all the cells had roughly 47% of charge remaining straight out of the package when I first discharged them. I'll let them sit a month or so, then see how much capacity remains. The package claims they hold their charge for a year. The 5 year guarantee is a good sign that Duracell stands behind their product.


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## Divine_Madcat (Aug 28, 2013)

I can confrirm the 50%. All 4 cells read at 1.30 out of the package. I dont have a charge that will do may tests though..

Still.. glad to hear the quality is looking good so far. I am still convinced, based on physical features, as well as published (and now tested data) that these are XX cells.. and a great deal at $10 for the 4 pack retail (at least vs retail XX) .


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## N8N (Oct 1, 2013)

So just bumping this back up as I'm interested to know... has anyone discharged these after letting them sit on the shelf yet?

I'd be so happy if I could buy cells in a local store that don't suck...


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## jtr1962 (Oct 2, 2013)

N8N said:


> So just bumping this back up as I'm interested to know... has anyone discharged these after letting them sit on the shelf yet?


I tested the remaining capacity in cells #1 through #4 in one of my MH-C9000s. I used the same charger for this test as I did for the break-in results to keep things consistent. After sitting for a month, the remaining capacities were:

cell #1 - 2245 mAh (87.7%)
cell #2 - 2252 mAh (88.1%)
cell #3 - 2247 mAh (88.4%)
cell #4 - 2285 mAh (88.0%)

Average remaining capacity after one month was 88.1%. I think these are supposed to have 75% capacity remaining after one year. Based on the fact that the self-discharge rate slows down exponentially for LSD cells as the remaining charge decreases this seems quite feasible given the numbers I obtained.


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## Quality (Oct 15, 2013)

Wow if these are really eneloop xx we need to get the word out! 

There is a lot of great information in this thread but has anyone tested the voltage under a load like HKJ?


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## SaraAB87 (Oct 15, 2013)

These are probably exponentially better than any other rechargable cell you can get in the USA on store shelves


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## Quality (Oct 15, 2013)

SaraAB87 said:


> These are probably exponentially better than any other rechargable cell you can get in the USA on store shelves



I would have to agree, although like many of us here, I don't limit myself to buying batteries in stores.

How many other Japanese high capacity LSD batteries could there be? The bottoms and the top of these "ion core" batteries by all accounts look exactly the same as Eneloop XX and Duracell has a history of rebranding eneloops hmm...


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## N8N (Oct 15, 2013)

My thought as well, was just waiting for someone to do a self discharge test on them to confirm it. jtr1962's numbers look good, and if nothing else the consistency makes me think it's gotta be a Sanyo product, they haven't been out long enough to get any significantly longer term numbers though. We shall see (or if I end up needing more cells I might just take the plunge and get some)


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## SaraAB87 (Oct 16, 2013)

If there are some good coupons this holiday season I might get a pack though I won't be able to perform extensive tests on them.


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## degarb (Oct 17, 2013)

I was in ToyRUs this weekend. They are carrying ($13 for 4 cells) Durablock 2400 lsds, that only claim 400 cycles. To me, looks like a low end Sanyo XX 2500 mah.

Could these be the same, I wonder.


Interesting too, is that ToyRUs is ahead of most brick and mortar retailers in battery technology.


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## N8N (Oct 17, 2013)

seems possible that they are the same, capacity makes sense - I believe the XXs were advertised as 2500 mAh typical which if consistent with regular 'loops means that they are going to be moving to calling it 2400 mAh minimum. Only thing that would make me think that they are not the exact same so far is only 400 cycles for Duracells and I believe the XXs were advertised as 500 cycles.


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## StorminMatt (Oct 17, 2013)

Hard to say at this time whether these are XXs or just simply some other type of Sanyo cell. What would go a long ways toward making that determination would be to see discharge curves of both, as well as seeing how both stand up with time. If these new Duracells are virtually identical with real XXs, then it's a safe bet they are.


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## Quality (Oct 18, 2013)

Yes we need someone with the equipment to test them properly. I asked HKJ about them and he might test them but he's busy until 2014. They are pretty cheap so I might buy some and do some amateur testing with my Maha c9000 and SC52w.


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## Nano-Oil.com (Nov 11, 2013)

Quality said:


> Yes we need someone with the equipment to test them properly. I asked HKJ about them and he might test them but he's busy until 2014. They are pretty cheap so I might buy some and do some amateur testing with my Maha c9000 and SC52w.



Boy, am I glad I ran into this thread, awsome !





I was trying to buy an SSD drive yesterday at Target (they do not have any) and I ended up spending 30 minutes investigating Duracell Ion Core Technology online while at the store:

http://www.duracell.com/en-us/innovation/ion-core-technology

I am all equipped to test all variables in one shot, on one screen with graphs + adjustable time stamp rate using 3 independent channels. 
Variables:
1- load ( charge or discharge in C factor )
2- voltage (very useful to observe drops during various load conditions) which gives you some idea of internal resistance
3- temperature

I will not be able to actually set it all up until 3rd. week in December 2013

on an associated note:
I have to say that all the Cell phone batteries that I have received & tested in the last few years (last one 2 weeks ago) 
were all FAKES by a long mah shortage from their specifications. 
so far about 30 of them for: -- HTC EVO 4 G -- Motorola Photon -- Samsung Galaxy Note II -- soon to test Samsung Galaxy Note III + Galaxy MEGA


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## Quality (Nov 13, 2013)

So are you going to test them Nano?

My tests have shown these to be very high quality cells. I have 8 of them and all tested over 2400 mah. Every battery is within +/- 20 mah of each other, they are very consistent. I also did some runtime testing and they performed fantastically.

Time will tell if these are truly as good or the same as Eneloop XX, but as of right now they perform identically.

They are also guaranteed by Duracell for 5 years which is quite a bold claim for a high capacity LSD cell.


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## Nano-Oil.com (Nov 16, 2013)

Quality said:


> So are you going to test them Nano?
> 
> My tests have shown these to be very high quality cells. I have 8 of them and all tested over 2400 mah. Every battery is within +/- 20 mah of each other, they are very consistent. I also did some runtime testing and they performed fantastically.
> 
> ...



Hello Quality,

the test has started & will be ongoing for some time on this thread Post 29 is first: 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...2400mah-15-minute-charging-contraindication-!

so far this is what I have:

I received 3 packs (12 units) on Thursday November 14th. 2013,

What I did so far: (rather superficial)

1- took volt measurements = all at 1.35v
2- discharged them all with my B8 @ 1 C cut off set @ 1.1v 
---(should have been set @ <> 0.2 to account for the load voltage drop, oh well I goofed )
3- allowed them to cool for 1 hours.
4- re took volt measurements found 1.25v I was impressed already
5- I charged with B8 @ 1 C 2400ma *UNBELIEVABLE*: 2791Mah 

I account this extra capacity to a number of factors: 
1- the power loss between charger & battery pack 
---( I will find the number soon when I set up a real in depth recorded test with fresh new batteries ) 
2- under stated capacity by Duracell given as 2400mah but in reality possibly > 2500mah

I took some volt measurements at different intervals & those cells beat any that I ever used in my life in that respect.

Obviously, much more is needed to be done as tests goes & I will keep updating on this thread 
or start one with the right title & keep this thread for its intended purpose.
since I only received 12 units, I have not done any 15 minutes charge cycles on those,

I will set up fully in 3rd. week of December 2013 so to have a full report from my computer interface.


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## ChrisGarrett (Nov 16, 2013)

People need to break in a new pack, write down all of the numbers and put them away for six months, or a year, discharge them and see.

There are lots of decent HiCap HSD batteries on the market, but what sets the Eneloop XX/Pros apart, is their LSD quality, not their capacity.

Chris


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## StorminMatt (Nov 17, 2013)

ChrisGarrett said:


> There are lots of decent HiCap HSD batteries on the market, but what sets the Eneloop XX/Pros apart, is their LSD quality, not their capacity.



Actually, there are few situations where I REALLY need LSD batteries for their LSD quality. Even non-LSD batteries will hold a decent charge for at least a few weeks. And I find that I ALWAYS charge my batteries before I need to use them in critical situations (LSD or not). Rather, what I find more important is how much current I can draw from the batteries, how much the voltage drops under a load, and whether the battery has good longevity.


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## ChrisGarrett (Nov 17, 2013)

StorminMatt said:


> Actually, there are few situations where I REALLY need LSD batteries for their LSD quality. Even non-LSD batteries will hold a decent charge for at least a few weeks. And I find that I ALWAYS charge my batteries before I need to use them in critical situations (LSD or not). Rather, what I find more important is how much current I can draw from the batteries, how much the voltage drops under a load, and whether the battery has good longevity.



I'm no expert, but with most AA lights, even 2xAA lights, current isn't a huge issue, but capacity 'may' be for any particular user/situation, so that's why I like HSD HiCaps. However, I have a bug-out-box that has a Klarus P2A and a JetBeam BA20 and both use 2xAAs, so keeping LSDs installed gives me a little bit of wiggle room, since I'm not fiddling with them too often.

Right tool for the right job and all.

Chris


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## Quality (Nov 17, 2013)

ChrisGarrett said:


> People need to break in a new pack, write down all of the numbers and put them away for six months, or a year, discharge them and see.
> 
> There are lots of decent HiCap HSD batteries on the market, but what sets the Eneloop XX/Pros apart, is their LSD quality, not their capacity.
> 
> Chris



I have 2 set aside with a break-in performed on 10-25-2013. I will keep them set aside and update in 5 months.

I also checked another 2 of them after two weeks and though I did not record that data, I remember they performed as expected.


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## ChrisGarrett (Nov 17, 2013)

Quality said:


> I have 2 set aside with a break-in performed on 10-25-2013. I will keep them set aside and update in 5 months.
> 
> I also checked another 2 of them after two weeks and though I did not record that data, I remember they performed as expected.



I did some LSD batteries after a year here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...t-Eneloops-GP-ReCyKos-and-Imedions-it-s-done!

This is what I'm expecting out of a test of these 'new' Duracell 2400s.

Chris


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## Quality (Nov 17, 2013)

That's some good data you have there Chris. In addition to using your data as a comparison, I think we need to also find and compare some data from the Eneloop XX, since the LSD claims and capacity of the Ion core most closely match that of the XX.


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## Frijid (Dec 1, 2013)

I bought 4 of them about a week ago. all 4 right out of the pack read 1.3. I doubt these are XX's as they are to cheap in price to be XX. (don't the XX normally run about 18 bucks on amazon for a 4 pack?)

so far they seem to be running good. Next time i charge them up, i'm going to compare them to my 2300's from energizer. I would not hesiate to buy these. In fact i would pick these over eneloops for a few reasons. 

Reason 1~ instant transaction. Buy these for 10.97 at walmart and have them instantly, or pay whatever eneloops are going for, and have to wait a week? i'll take instantly for 500 Alex. (jeapordy joke, for those who don't understand)

Reason 2~ counterfeits. These i wouldn't hesitate. Buying eneloops off the internet, you can't inspect them till you get them, and if you find out they are fake when you get them, then you have to send them back, which leads to number 3

Reason number 3~ returns. Return instantly to walmart, or send back via snail-mail, and wait another week? i'll take instant return for 1,000 alex

Reason 4~ Warranty. Anyone ever have to return a dud eneloop? what is their policy on duds? Duracell? I've had a few problems with dud alkalines from them, and they always respond promptly and fill the need.

Don't get me wrong, i realize and accept the fact that Eneloops ARE the best brand of rechargeable battery, HANDS DOWN. I have about 12 of them, and love em to death. however, I am a man who likes to visually inspect everything i buy,(Don't ever go shopping with me, i'm known to take stuff outta the box, if it's not visible thru the clear plastic bubble wrap or whatever that i'm about to buy and inspect it) therefore I fear getting fake ones when ordering online, or having them damaged via shipment, plus waiting a week or more. I'll take instant transaction with a 5 year warranty for 2,000 Alex!


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## ada_potato (Dec 24, 2013)

degarb said:


> I was in ToyRUs this weekend. They are carrying ($13 for 4 cells) Durablock 2400 lsds, that only claim 400 cycles. To me, looks like a low end Sanyo XX 2500 mah.
> 
> Could these be the same, I wonder.
> 
> ...



Toys-R-Us has the Duracell "Ion-Core" (premium) 2400MAH LSD AA and AAA batteries on sale for $8.99 (Regular price $12.99). The "kicker" is that the 2nd pack purchased is 40% off the sale price, not the regular price.
(You can mix-n-match, so 1 pack can be AA and 2nd pack AAA).

http://www.toysrus.com/buy/recharge...rgeable-aa-size-battery-4-pack-66155-22268676

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/26871


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## Aahhyes68 (Dec 26, 2013)

I just picked up 4 packs at the local Toys r us for 8.99 ea... Thanks for the heads up..


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## N8N (Dec 26, 2013)

Dayam. Might pick up a C9000 and some of those for a late Xmas gift... just be aware that from what I read the AAs seem to be equivalent to XX but AAA are likely standard Eneloop, if that matters to you.

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk


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## N8N (Dec 27, 2013)

Deal is apparently over... still $8.99 online but no more 40% off 2nd pack. Store is listing them at $12.99; I don't need them badly enough to pay $9/4 so I didn't even check to see if they were really on sale although that is a good price. With the twofer deal I would have stocked up.

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk


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## Quality (Dec 27, 2013)

I bought two 4 packs on ebay for $14. All I had to do was look for about a week or so and I found the best price I could find at the time. Totally worth $7/4 IMO.


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## Frijid (Feb 20, 2014)

:bump:

Anyone else have anything to say about these batteries? any info on their LSD capabilities?

So far mine seem to perform as well as my eneloops. I've read on amazon, some are thinking the AA's are just re-branded XX's, but i'm not to sure about that personally.


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## ChrisGarrett (Feb 21, 2014)

I've got one quad sitting since 1/5/14, when I broke it in on my C-9000, so it'll be awhile before I know anything about their time vs. capacity properties.

Chris


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## Replicant (Jul 31, 2014)

Has anyone had a chance to take a look at the capacity of these after 6 months or so?


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## ChrisGarrett (Jul 31, 2014)

Replicant said:


> Has anyone had a chance to take a look at the capacity of these after 6 months or so?



I'm at just at about 7 months for one of two quads that I bought, but I'm going to try and hang on until a year is up, before discharging them on my C-9000.

Chris


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## RI Chevy (Jul 31, 2014)

I charge mine regularly with a La Crosse BC-700 charger using the 700 mAh charge mode. I did one refresh about 3 months ago. I have noticed no difference or no less power from the cells. They are holding up well.


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## StorminMatt (Jul 31, 2014)

RI Chevy said:


> They are holding up well.



Agreed. Whether or not these batteries turn out to be Eneloop XXs, they are pretty good. I find that, at least when it comes to AA use, I don't use my Duraloop 2000s much because of these cells.


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## Replicant (Aug 1, 2014)

Thanks, Chris. Testing at one year will be worth the wait.

I just bought my second and third 4 pack at Target. From the sounds of it, these are good cells for a very reasonable price. I hope to give mine a solid workout soon.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2014)

*Duracell Duralock AA 2400 mAh - DX1500 
Made in Japan dark green/black fiberboard insulator:*
7-2014 I purchased this 4Pkg from wallyworld, they have the cryptic label code of 0345xxxxetc so not sure of manufacture date. 

On the Opus *BT-C2000 v2.1* after a several Refreshes (3x discharge/charge per Refresh cycle) @ 500mAh Dischg & 1000 mAh charge, their final discharged capacities were 
*2407, 2400, 2432, 2400* mAh. I did not really notice significant increase after the first Dischg/Charge cycle. 
Each of their* IR* were between *41-45*. 
None seemed to get hot, though the 3rd from left channel on charger is usually a 5 degrees C warmer than the others.

>> These AA's appear to meet the labled/advertised mAh rating and went directly into use.

*Duracell Duralock "preCharged/Rechargeable "AAA 800 mAh - D?2400 
Made in Japan dark green/black fiberboard insulator:*
_( didn't keep the package so not sure if DC or DX2400):_7-2014 I recently picked up these Duracell AAA 800 mAh - 4Pkg from toysrus, unknown mfr date.

On the Opus *BT-C2000 v2.1* after a several Refreshes (3x discharge/charge per Refresh cycle) some cells were refreshed at 100/200 mAh Dischg/Chg and some cells were refreshed at 200/400 mAh Dischg/Chg. Did not seem to make any difference on Capacities as they *averaged 732*.
Their *IR* afterwards were *55-60*.
None seemed to get even warm on this charger.
These AAA *did not quite meet their labeled rating of 800*. 
They went into storage. If I can resist temptation I may test one pair after one month and the other pair later. 

*Since my batteries aren't used for long term storage I am storing these AAA just to provide info for others on the forum - if I can resist .*

Sorry for all the letters in above but seems these batteries get lots of interest and I suppose more information is better than little.


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 1, 2014)

Replicant said:


> Thanks, Chris. Testing at one year will be worth the wait.
> 
> I just bought my second and third 4 pack at Target. From the sounds of it, these are good cells for a very reasonable price. I hope to give mine a solid workout soon.



My hope is to do this:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ut-Eneloops-GP-ReCyKos-and-Imedions-it-s-done!

with my 12 Gen. 2 Duraloop 2000mAh batteries and the 4 2400mAh Duraloop batteries that I've conditioned/charged and stashed away, but who knows if I can wait out the next 6 months, lol?

Don't ask me why, but I'm confident that the Duraloops are 'Toshiba/Sanyo/Panasonic' technology and that we'll be in for a pleasant surprise. The 12 2aH AA Duraloops have been in storage for a year, this August 5th!

Chris


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## RI Chevy (Aug 1, 2014)




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## StorminMatt (Aug 2, 2014)

Then again, is it really THAT important that they hold a charge after a year? I mean, are you REALLY going to pull batteries that have been sitting in a drawer for a year and use them for anything important without charging them?


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 2, 2014)

StorminMatt said:


> Then again, is it really THAT important that they hold a charge after a year? I mean, are you REALLY going to pull batteries that have been sitting in a drawer for a year and use them for anything important without charging them?



Yes.

And, I also leave batteries in devices for longer than a year. I want to know they can last longer than that without self-discharging.


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## RI Chevy (Aug 2, 2014)

One could at least get a good baseline and conduct an excellent experiment to either back up or refute the manufacturers claim of holding a certain percent of its charge for a specified time.


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