# Jeers to Olight



## jfong (Oct 19, 2015)

I expected the M3XS-UT Javelot to have an XP-L HI as was advertised and hyped in initial marketing. The torch I got had a factory de-domed XP-L instead. (I don't want to speak for everyone else, but that seems to be the situation universally).

I won't do business with them again because their customer service was poor when I emailed them about this, and after I involved the BBB, they had inconsistent stories about what the situation was. They swung both ways on whether or not they will be really using XP-L HI's in this light in the future, then ignored my most recent email to them (one month ago), and never owned up to the situation. All this adds up to unforgiveable untrustworthiness to me.


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## Str8stroke (Oct 19, 2015)

Interesting Jeer. 
Did you read any reviews before you bought it? (Oh, I am not blaming you for being upset) I just remembered this review, so I linked it for you. 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...t-(Dedomed-XP-L-3-or-4xCR123A-2x18650)-Review

A quote from the review: "As an aside, I was wondering whether Olight used a domeless new XP-L High Intensity or a dedomed existing XP-L. Olight has conformed the dedoming process of the existing XP-L was done by Olight in their factory."

So I think it has been disclosed. I guess you could say, false advertising, or marketing trickery. However it seems to be a buyer beware at Olight World.


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## jfong (Oct 19, 2015)

Str8stroke said:


> Interesting Jeer.
> Did you read any reviews before you bought it? (Oh, I am not blaming you for being upset) I just remembered this review, so I linked it for you.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...t-(Dedomed-XP-L-3-or-4xCR123A-2x18650)-Review
> ...



I purchased on 6/30, and my torch shipped on 7/2. I indeed saw that review on 7/7 and even was the first to reply to it:



jfong said:


> Thanks for the awesome review!!
> 
> I have one in transit, and feel a bit miffed.
> 
> ...



-------

As context for the situation before a review like that one mentioned that the LED was a factory de-domed XP-L, look at how the LED is described, even in in that review's "Manufacturer Specifications:







This is their other marketing, which Olight published to these forums on 6/2 (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?402192-M3X-UT-Javelot-Information):






Even the user manual that came with the torch:






Here's what kj2 said in his review on 6/20 (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...3a-2x-18650-XP-L-Dedomed-1200-lumens)-Review/):



> The M3XS uses a Cree XP-L high intensity led. This led is domeless, and gives a cooler tint than the dedomed M2X. Together with the smooth reflector, it throws great!



and his update on 7/8:



> Update 3: after reading a other review on the M3XS-UT, I contacted Olight about the led that they use for this light. Although specs talk about XP-L Hi, Olight uses a XP-L HD and dedomes them in their factory. When enough XP-L Hi leds are in stock, they switch to that led.



re: marketing trickery / buyer beware: AFAIK, they are still using the factory de-domed XP-L, so I'm not calling them liars, but it doesn't seem like they did what they told kj2 they were going to do. They later said the opposite to a user at BLF, then again switched back to claim to the BBB that they have already switched to the XP-L HI's. This is not the kind of manufacturer I feel safe buying from.


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## Str8stroke (Oct 19, 2015)

WOW, that is bonkers. Nice reply by the way. I would have to agree with you on this one. Like is said before. Its kinda strange for sure.


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## recDNA (Oct 19, 2015)

Wow. I always thought Olight was a class outfit.


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## scs (Oct 19, 2015)

jfong said:


> re: marketing trickery / buyer beware: AFAIK, they are still using the factory de-domed XP-L, so I'm not calling them liars, but it doesn't seem like they did what they told kj2 they were going to do. They later said the opposite to a user at BLF, then again switched back to claim to the BBB that they have already switched to the XP-L HI's. This is not the kind of manufacturer I feel safe buying from.



I would be among the last to give a manufacturer the benefit of the doubt. Nevertheless, is there perhaps a disconnect between what people and the BBB wanted to know and how they actually posed their questions?

Perhaps Olight actually answered truthfully in accordance with their interpretation of the questions and their context.

Olight is using the actual XPL HI in specific lights, and it has changed the specs for the M3X-UT to "customized XPL." If one of the questions was, "Are you now using XPL HI emitters in your lights?" I see nothing wrong with simply answering, "We have begun to use XPL HI emitters in our lights," without specifying which lights, and without acknowledging that some dealers out there might still be selling older batches with dedomed emitters to customers.

I'm not referring to your feeling misled, because I completely agree. I'm referring to Olight's exchanges with others and the BBB to which you referenced.

Nonetheless, if I were you I'd feel that Olight owes me (and the flashlight community) an apology, an exchange or a full refund.


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## jfong (Oct 19, 2015)

scs said:


> I would be among the last to give a manufacturer the benefit of the doubt. Nevertheless, is there perhaps a disconnect between what people and the BBB wanted to know and how they actually posed their questions?
> 
> Perhaps Olight actually answered truthfully in accordance with their interpretation of the questions and their context.
> 
> ...



Yup! Per the rules of Cheers 'N Jeers, I'm being very careful what I say/share, and any implications I make, but I'm pretty frustrated and peeved by this. 

(Per the rules) I'm not posting the exact (and very telling) communications, however: 
 in response to my specific BBB complaint about the LED in the M3XS Javelot, they very specifically claimed they are now using the XP-L HI in the M3XS Javelot. This was on August 20th.

Admin deletion: Expanding discussions to include another forum's activity, and potentially involving more than one forum in the activity of a Jeers thread is inadvisable. - Empath

 (after checking with Empath, here's a general description of what else Olight has said): Before that, however, on or around August 11th, Olight said to someone explicitly and specifically that they don't plan on using the XP-L HI led in the M3XS-UT Javelot, even though they will be getting stock of XP-L HI's to use in their other torches

So is Olight actually using XP-L HI's in their M3XS-UT Javelot now? Who knows! 

On September 19th, I emailed Olight after the BBB complaint fizzled out. I asked for clarification on their claim to BBB, and inquired specifically about the current situation of which LED is in an M3XS-UT Javelot, but they ignored me. 

I'm not buying any Olight products anymore, as they've lost all my trust.


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## jfong (Nov 23, 2015)

Olight just set up their own Amazon-fulfillment store, and for the M3XS-UT Javelot, they claim:



> the M3XS-UT offers up to a full kilometer of beam distance and features a large diameter reflector with a Cree XP-L High Intensity LED.


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B010URTWZG/?tag=cpf0b6-20

But I have yet to see anybody post about nor review an XP-L HI in the M3XS-UT Javelot.


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## scs (Nov 23, 2015)

jfong said:


> Olight just set up their own Amazon-fulfillment store, and for the M3XS-UT Javelot, they claim:
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B010URTWZG/?tag=cpf0b6-20
> ...



Even if it were an outright lie, Olight would still end up selling a bunch to unsuspecting Amazon patrons.
It is unfortunate, but that's how things still work---bad business practices can continue with impunity for far too long before there are, if ever, consequences.


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## jfong (Nov 23, 2015)

scs said:


> Even if it were an outright lie, Olight would still end up selling a bunch to unsuspecting Amazon patrons.
> It is unfortunate, but that's how things still work---bad business practices can continue with impunity for far too long before there are, if ever, consequences.



Yup, its so very frustrating. 

I'm glad that at least CPF has a forum section like this to call it out a little bit, though. I could also leave an Amazon review, I guess, but the actual technical aspect of the issue would probably not be clear for Amazon customers.


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## 1DaveN (Dec 24, 2015)

scs said:


> Even if it were an outright lie, Olight would still end up selling a bunch to unsuspecting Amazon patrons.
> It is unfortunate, but that's how things still work---bad business practices can continue with impunity for far too long before there are, if ever, consequences.



Chances are that a lot of Amazon customers don't know the difference, or don't care. For those who complain, Amazon will let them return the lights, and if they get too many complaints, they'll drop Olight.

Thanks for this thread, by the way. I've looked at a few Olights and probably would have ended up with one at some point.


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## Empath (Dec 25, 2015)

An attempt to continue a thread that has been closed elsewhere has been removed. This thread, and that one, has been addressed sufficiently enough for closure. Please honor the efforts of our moderators, and avoid attempts to invalidate their efforts. Thanks.


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