# TK40 or wait?



## Wildewinds (Aug 5, 2009)

I'm planning on buying a TK40, but I'm wondering about its longevity. I know there are brighter lights out there (Pilot Whale, M2C4, etc), but I'm liking the AA batteries in the TK40.

Since it's been out for a while, will there be a TK50 soon? Or maybe something else that's better?


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## tab665 (Aug 5, 2009)

the world of flashlights is just like any other technology, theres allways something better coming around the corner. allthough i will add that if your going to spend well over 100 bucks for a light, make sure your not going to put the cheapest batteries you can find in it.


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## glockboy (Aug 5, 2009)

Go for it, I got the TK40 when it came out and I'm still using it.


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## jahxman (Aug 5, 2009)

I love my TK40 - for throw with a multi-die light, it is the best I have. Also no donut hole - the TK40 reflector does a really good job of projecting a bright hotspot very far, and also lots of wide-angle spill nearby.

I have an Ultrafire RL-2088 (Osram 6-die) which has more floody light but can't throw as far. From beamshots I've seen it appears the Pilot Whale has a similar beam profile, although possibly with more rings. Good for lighting up the whole near field, but won't throw as far.

I have several other multi-die LEDs (mostly cheap DX lights) but the only other MC-E I have that impresses me much is my Dereelight DB3 V3 with the MC-E pill and extension to use 2 18650's; it projects a wonderful floody beam quite well, but interestingly narrower than the spill on the TK40 and not as throwy in the center; still a very decent throw though, and with a big bright hotspot. 

I have a Legion-II on the way, have to see how it stacks up.

At the moment, if I want to use an LED hand cannon, I pick up my TK40:twothumbs


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## recDNA (Aug 5, 2009)

Wildewinds said:


> I'm planning on buying a TK40, but I'm wondering about its longevity. I know there are brighter lights out there (Pilot Whale, M2C4, etc), but I'm liking the AA batteries in the TK40.
> 
> Since it's been out for a while, will there be a TK50 soon? Or maybe something else that's better?


 
The TK40 does have a new improved battery carrier. Eneloop rechargeable batteries with a charger are best if you're going to use the TK40 frequently. If you don't like rechargeables try L91 Energizer 8X ultimate lithium AA batteries. Alkalines will leak under the strain. 

Don't forget you can only use turbo (brightest) mode for 10 minutes at a time.


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## DanPonjican (Aug 5, 2009)

I find that chasing the latest updates gets you no where. Just get what you want when you want it. Don't worry about what is in the pipe lines... there is no sense in it. There will always be a better laptop, camera, flashlight, etc. one month after you buy yours.


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## Cartman (Aug 5, 2009)

Wildewinds said:


> I'm planning on buying a TK40, but I'm wondering about its longevity. I know there are brighter lights out there (Pilot Whale, M2C4, etc), but I'm liking the AA batteries in the TK40.
> 
> Since it's been out for a while, will there be a TK50 soon? Or maybe something else that's better?



The TK40 is in a class by itself. As the only MC-E (that I know of) that runs on AA, I don't think it has any competition. To me, anyway, the TK40's appeal is not its output or mode versus others, it's what it runs on: the ubiquitous AA cell which in an emergency will trump other systems that need access to a charger.

As far as leaking, I think one user has reported a leak, while others have had no issues so your mileage may vary. I myself have been running Eneloops. Other than the tail switch being too easy to activate, I am very happy with it.


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## AusKipper (Aug 5, 2009)

recDNA said:


> Don't forget you can only use turbo (brightest) mode for 10 minutes at a time.



Dont forget to ignore that above statement. It will depend on the ambient temperature how long you can use it for on turbo before it gets too warm.

I use mine almost exclusively on turbo, sometime for well over 10 mins, and have not had a problem yet.

Thats at air temperature of about.. 15 degrees Celcius.

Some chap did runtime tests on turbo, and just left it under a fan, and it was fine also, that was continuous on for a couple of hours.

To answer your above question.... yes get it, though i'm still hoping they bring out a TK50 with a smooth throwy reflector


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## suregetfired (Aug 5, 2009)

Wildewinds said:


> ...will there be a TK50 soon? Or maybe something else that's better?



New lights are being developed everyday, the TK40 might be considered ancient history in just a few months. My point is, you can be waiting forever if you want the latest technology. Get it and be happy with it...I did.


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## recDNA (Aug 5, 2009)

AusKipper said:


> Dont forget to ignore that above statement. It will depend on the ambient temperature how long you can use it for on turbo before it gets too warm.
> 
> I use mine almost exclusively on turbo, sometime for well over 10 mins, and have not had a problem yet.
> 
> ...


 

Only giving him Fenix' own warning. Using turbo more than 10 mins is taking a chance. Some people might want to know that before investing $140.


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## brigadeer (Aug 5, 2009)

Wildewinds said:


> I'm planning on buying a TK40, but I'm wondering about its longevity. I know there are brighter lights out there (Pilot Whale, M2C4, etc), but I'm liking the AA batteries in the TK40.
> 
> Since it's been out for a while, will there be a TK50 soon? Or maybe something else that's better?



I literally just got my TK40 in today and I am loving it. As others have mentioned already, I think it is best to purchase some rechargeables such as Eneloops to power the light.

I just got back taking a walk with my dog, and I lit up damn near the entire neighborhood when I cranked that sucker up to Turbo mode. I was amazed!!!

Even if Fenix comes out with a TK50 in the next few months, I highly doubt it would offer anything revolutionary over the TK40, probably just some minor changes. Don't deny yourself, get this light now, lol!


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## HKJ (Aug 6, 2009)

recDNA said:


> Only giving him Fenix' own warning. Using turbo more than 10 mins is taking a chance.



Not more than on any other high power flashlight.

Nearly all high power lights would benefit from that warning, but most manufactures do not print it. The problem is if you let a light run at max. without holding it or has some airflow over it, it can not get rid of the heat and might cook itself. 

The text in manual for the TK40 could be interpreted as if the light has some sort of thermal shutdown, preventing any damage to the light, even if it gets to hot.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 6, 2009)

Wildewinds said:


> I'm planning on buying a TK40, but I'm wondering about its longevity. I know there are brighter lights out there (Pilot Whale, M2C4, etc), but I'm liking the AA batteries in the TK40.



Go for it, there are not much lights that are really brighter. For example M2C4 with claimed 900 lumens is in fact less bright (both throw and lumens)...



recDNA said:


> Alkalines will leak under the strain.



Because the light uses 8xAA, the power drain from the batteries is similar to the 2xAA high power lights. But I agree that alkaline batteries are not ideal for any high power light 



recDNA said:


> Don't forget you can only use turbo (brightest) mode for 10 minutes at a time.



You can use the light at turbo level as long as it doesn't get too hot. I wouldn't tail stand it in a 25°C room for more than 10-20 minutes, but night walk is ok.

The TK40 doesn't get hotter than other MC-E/P7 flashlights, so the other flashlights could use the warning as well.


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## neoseikan (Aug 6, 2009)

How about post a review comparing Legion II with other MC-E lights?






jahxman said:


> I love my TK40 - for throw with a multi-die light, it is the best I have. Also no donut hole - the TK40 reflector does a really good job of projecting a bright hotspot very far, and also lots of wide-angle spill nearby.
> 
> I have an Ultrafire RL-2088 (Osram 6-die) which has more floody light but can't throw as far. From beamshots I've seen it appears the Pilot Whale has a similar beam profile, although possibly with more rings. Good for lighting up the whole near field, but won't throw as far.
> 
> ...


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## jahxman (Aug 6, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> How about post a review comparing Legion II with other MC-E lights?


 
I will definitely do that; once my Legion II arrives I'm gonna do a comparison among all my LED hand-cannons on all aspects; I might leave out runtime graphs on some of the lower modes, just because it would take weeks :naughty:


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## nick__45 (Aug 6, 2009)

How does the TK40 compare to the Aurora AK-P7-3 SSC P7-C 900-Lumen 2-Mode LED Flashligh? I really like the 900 lumen factor but not sure why neither Aurora or DealExtreme lists the run time for this light under various mode. The only listed run time is on turbo and it's about 1.5 hrs.

I think this may be the light for me. Is Aurora a good company? Has anyone deal with it or DealExtreme? Anyone has a coupon code I can borrow. 

Thanks.


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## HKJ (Aug 6, 2009)

nick__45 said:


> How does the TK40 compare to the Aurora AK-P7-3 SSC P7-C 900-Lumen 2-Mode LED Flashligh? I really like the 900 lumen factor but not sure why neither Aurora or DealExtreme lists the run time for this light under various mode. The only listed run time is on turbo and it's about 1.5 hrs.
> 
> I think this may be the light for me. Is Aurora a good company? Has anyone deal with it or DealExtreme? Anyone has a coupon code I can borrow.
> 
> Thanks.



Usual you can not trust these "900 lumen" specifications, they are usual calculated at the led (The optic system can easily loose 20% light) assuming that the led is in the top of the bin, it stays at 25°C and fresh batteries (And sometimes a few % is added to the output to make the number look even more impressing). 
These conditions does not match real life and the output will usual be much lower.

The TK40 can sustain the specified 630 lumen out of the flashlight until the batteries are drained.


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## nick__45 (Aug 6, 2009)

Is Aurora a good company as far as design, build quality, and customer service? I can't even find Aurora website. The only site with Aurora name is Aurora Tactical and they only carry 1 flashlight while having super high end optic products in the 20s of thousands.

Please also give me coupon code for DealExtreme.


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## recDNA (Aug 6, 2009)

HKJ said:


> Not more than on any other high power flashlight.
> 
> Nearly all high power lights would benefit from that warning, but most manufactures do not print it. The problem is if you let a light run at max. without holding it or has some airflow over it, it can not get rid of the heat and might cook itself.
> 
> The text in manual for the TK40 could be interpreted as if the light has some sort of thermal shutdown, preventing any damage to the light, even if it gets to hot.


 

If the TK40 has a thermal shut down or ramp down to lower mode feature Fenix would be crazy NOT to spell it out very clearly. IMO all of the MC-E lights SHOULD have a thermal protection circuit of some kind.

I like to use L91 lithiums in my TK40 and I don't know how hot THEY get after 20 minutes on turbo. I don't want my hand cannon to explode like a hand grenade!


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## Dude Dudeson (Aug 6, 2009)

I want to see the TK40 compared to the MD4 Wildcat!


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## Nimravus (Aug 6, 2009)

I say go for it!!! I got mine and even if it's bigger then then other or this or that, I think it's a great light for the fact it used batteries you can find just about anywhere in the world. It is also a tough light and great thrower.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 6, 2009)

nick__45 said:


> Is Aurora a good company as far as design, build quality, and customer service? I can't even find Aurora website. The only site with Aurora name is Aurora Tactical and they only carry 1 flashlight while having super high end optic products in the 20s of thousands.
> 
> Please also give me coupon code for DealExtreme.



You are quite off topic here... Aurora is just a noname Chinese brand. It has no customer service and questionable build quality.


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## Cataract (Aug 6, 2009)

If you have the willpower to wait, it might be worth it... or not....
Companies will always come up with products with higher specs (not always better). You can wait forever for best and final product to come out (which will never happen) or take a chance and buy now. It's mostly a matter or willpower and patience. I got my TK40 2 months ago, even though I promised I'd wait many more months and I just love it and swear never to regret it. I say this even though I'm probably wrong: I seriously don't need a brighter flashlight... just a more perfect combination of flashlights...


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## 1anrm (Aug 6, 2009)

I don't have a lot of will power left... might buy it this month.. OOooohhh...
C'mon exchange rate


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## jahxman (Aug 6, 2009)

nick__45 said:


> How does the TK40 compare to the Aurora AK-P7-3 SSC P7-C 900-Lumen 2-Mode LED Flashligh? I really like the 900 lumen factor but not sure why neither Aurora or DealExtreme lists the run time for this light under various mode. The only listed run time is on turbo and it's about 1.5 hrs.
> 
> I think this may be the light for me. Is Aurora a good company? Has anyone deal with it or DealExtreme? Anyone has a coupon code I can borrow.
> 
> Thanks.


 
I have this light - it is nowhere close to 900 lumens. It probably puts out 350 lumens if it is lucky - lucky as in if it works when you get it from DX.

Mine didn't, it was non-functional when it arrived. I had to do some repairs to get it to work somewhat reliably. You will find this with most of the cheap DX lights - the high lumens that are claimed are theoretical amounts that could be produced under ideal conditions in a laboratory setting - not out the front lumens in the real world.

The light gets quite hot after a minute or two and the output drops further the hotter it gets.

Don't get me wrong, it's a bright flashlight - but you get what you pay for, and it is not anywhere near the league of some of the better lights available.

If you want an inexpensive, good quality MC-E or P7, get an MG PLI - only about 20 dollars more than the DX lights and vastly better IMO


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## nick__45 (Aug 6, 2009)

jahxman said:


> I have this light - it is nowhere close to 900 lumens. It probably puts out 350 lumens if it is lucky - lucky as in if it works when you get it from DX.
> 
> Mine didn't, it was non-functional when it arrived. I had to do some repairs to get it to work somewhat reliably. You will find this with most of the cheap DX lights - the high lumens that are claimed are theoretical amounts that could be produced under ideal conditions in a laboratory setting - not out the front lumens in the real world.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the information. I am very new at lights. I just remember a lot of folks here talk about DX when I became a member a year or so ago. I have a pair of Tradecraft that are very bright. They were $30 total from BJ and are very bright and durable. After buying them, my perspective on flashlights change as I no longer believe high dollar flashlights are the only ones of good quality.

I am in need of a good lights that can be used as defensive tool when I need to go in D.C. where all firearms are prohibit outside the house. A good flash in the face will temporarily blind the bg and give me a chance to either run and do some defensive damage.

It is hard to know what is a good company out there since there are tons of them popping up. A few reviews on here have low price clones beating high dollar originals. I definitely don't want a Surefire as the name is half of the cost.

I wonder of Dorcy is a good brand. I have a few Dorcy incansdescent lights and they always work whenever I need them. They are tough as hell too. Strangely enough, some Dorcy's have life time warranty while some only carry one year warranty.


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## Palaeoboy (Aug 7, 2009)

I was considering the TK40 to replace a halogen spotlight but someone mentioned its more of a floodlight than a spotlight. I like the fact that it takes AA batteries but I would have liked a settng in between high at 277 lumens and turbo at 630 lumens. Any Aussies here use this light for spotlighting in the bush at night?


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## Mr Floppy (Aug 7, 2009)

Palaeoboy said:


> I was considering the TK40 to replace a halogen spotlight but someone mentioned its more of a floodlight than a spotlight. I like the fact that it takes AA batteries but I would have liked a settng in between high at 277 lumens and turbo at 630 lumens. Any Aussies here use this light for spotlighting in the bush at night?


If the halogen spotlight you're thinking about is a 5 million candle power, 6V 55W spotlight or something similar to that, then taking it out into the bush its heavy and not the easiest thing to carry. 

There are 500,000 candle power halogen lights. I think mines a dorcy, it has a cigarette lighter plug ,and its really cheap but beam is really ugly compared to the TK40. In terms of illumination, the TK40 is much much better. It has a smooth spot and great spill and shines a long long way. It nothing like a flood light but you can use it as one because the spill lights up a bbq area really well from a height.

Only wish the tint was different. When the beam hits close up silvery foilage, its a little too bright and it hurts the night vision.


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## SAR-OR (Aug 7, 2009)

Get one...enjoy it....
As soon as you get it there will be another bigger faster better one.
But then...you'll have a great light that you'll be enjoying.
I bought a TA30 and a week later the TA20 and TA21 came out...it happens.

The TK40 lives up to expectations. It's quite bright. I would be fine useing it as a spot light on a search. This light brings daylight to a dark forest.


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## maniacdave (Aug 7, 2009)

*TK40 vs. M1X*

I'd rather go for M1X. Initially, I was torn between TK40 and M1X, but the latter is clearly better. Specs and numbers are all fine, but real world performance cannot be judged solely on them.

Clever statement by Fenix "TK40 is the world's brightest, AA-powered flashlight" has to be taken with a pinch of salt. The keyword there is "AA-powered".  Although both have Cree MC-E diode, manuf. rated 700lm (at emitter), actual output depends on the current, the driver circuit and most importantly, the optics, where 30-60% of light volume gets lost.

I was lucky to have been able to test both flashlights; after that, there was no argument to which one is better. M1X has a more natual tint to it too. It's not exactly warm, but the light is more pleasant. TK40 isn't cool either, but personally I liked M1X better.

Overall light output - some say TK40 is brighter compared to M1X, but it just isn't true. I guess this opinion might be caused by different manuf. rating. TK40 says 630 lumens, M1X says 450. The difference is that TK40 rating is for the diode, whereas M1X is for the *actual flashlight output* (diode having 700lm). I'd guess TK40's actual output is somewhere around the usual 60%, 380lm.

I don't think I can do M1X justice just by describing it. It's an amazing thrower, but incredibly, there's enough spill to light up the trajectory all the way like a Christmas tree. TK40, having a smaller reflector, doesn't throw that much light that far. It has slightly more spill, but it isn't even as bright as M1X's.

Portability - it depends on what you prefer. Its small reflector makes for more compact shape. On the other hand, it's quite thick and it's harder to attach it to something. Empty, they both weigh the same, but with 8 batteries TK40 is noticeably heavier.

Batteries - M1X with all the possible combinations is a clear winner: 3xCR123A, 3xRCR123, 2x18500, 4xCR123A, 4xRCR123, 2x18650. That is unless you wish to stick with AA's and replacing / recharging 8 of those quite often. TK40 doesn't even approach M1X's runtime (even w/o the extender).

Check out these images. Same location and exposure. Unfortunately, the dark subject (woods) absorbs enough light to diminish the difference, it is more pronounced IRL. This M1X is the 1st gen, not as bright as the current version. Nevertheless, with it you can see the hotspot's cone of light all the way, hotspot itself is brighter just like trees 240m far away at the end of the trail and some spill-lit trees are not visible with TK40 at all.

TK40:






M1X:






In conclusion, both flashlights are great, but come on, M1X is the clear winner here. Considering TK40 is $10 more expensive...


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## nick__45 (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: TK40 vs. M1X*

Actually, your pics show that the M1X covers a lot less grass than the TK40. It is possible that if the TK40 was aimed higher, in this case that would be as high as the M1X, we'd see a much brighter view.


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## jimmy1970 (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: TK40 vs. M1X*



maniacdave said:


> Overall light output - some say TK40 is brighter compared to M1X, but it just isn't true. I guess this opinion might be caused by different manuf. rating. TK40 says 630 lumens, M1X says 450. The difference is that TK40 rating is for the diode, whereas M1X is for the *actual flashlight output* (diode having 700lm). I'd guess TK40's actual output is somewhere around the usual 60%, 380lm.


 Fenix Lumens of 630lm are out the front. If the fenix was only putting out '380lm', then your beamshots wouldn't look so alike.

James....


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## Vesper (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: TK40 vs. M1X*



maniacdave said:


> In conclusion, both flashlights are great, but come on, M1X is the clear winner here. Considering TK40 is $10 more expensive...




Love those photos. Cool pic into the forest path.

I have tried both and they're great - not sure you can pick a "clear" winner. Just research the UI differences, size, etc and go for either one. You'll be happy with your purchase. :thumbsup:


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## jahxman (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: TK40 vs. M1X*



maniacdave said:


> In conclusion, both flashlights are great, but come on, M1X is the clear winner here. Considering TK40 is $10 more expensive...


 
I'm not seeing a clear winner here - It looks like the color rendition is a lot better with the TK40, a factor that for some would be decisive. 

Also your statement about Fenix's 630 Lumen rating being an emitter rating is not accurate - to my understanding the lumens ratings quoted by Fenix for their lights are OTF lumens, not emitter lumens.

Most of the other differences - battery types, runtimes, reflector size and general size and shape of the light, as will as overall appearance - are all fairly subjective.

For some, clearly, the M1X wins out - but for others, clearly, the TK40 wins, for many reasons that are spelled out in numerous threads here on CPF.


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## maniacdave (Aug 7, 2009)

*Re: TK40 vs. M1X*

Thanks for replies.



nick__45 said:


> Actually, your pics show that the M1X covers a lot less grass than the TK40. It is possible that if the TK40 was aimed higher, in this case that would be as high as the M1X, we'd see a much brighter view.



I don't think so, both flashlights were fixed on the same tripod with center pointing towards the far trees at the end of the trail. TK40 covering more grass is caused by the smaller reflector with more spill.



jimmy1970 said:


> Fenix Lumens of 630lm are out the front. If the fenix was only putting out '380lm', then your beamshots wouldn't look so alike.



First and foremost, I don't wish to cause a flame, that wasn't my intention at all. I just want to help out.

Nevertheless, I can't imagine 630lm being out front measurement. Real world performance aside, I cannot imagine such a torch spouting 90% of the light untouched. It just isn't realistic. BTW, the number, 380lm, was a pure guess based on common percentages of light loss and some testing.

Your original argument, the difference, be it 70lm or whatever, is actually quite minor compared to these volumes of light. Light isn't "linear", it doesn't add up with the distance as one might expect. _Its intensity is inversely proportional to the *square* of the distance from the source._

Let's think about it, 60lm is what usual 2006 gen LED flashlights achieve. Imagine pointing such a common flashlight into the distance on the picture. Some near parts would be lit somehow (it's farther than seems, perspective is compressed due to camera's longer focal point), but without much spill, rays travelling mostly towards the centre, they would quickly radiate "into nothing". When you point TK40 like on the picture and add such a common flashlight, how much would _really_ change? I'd dare say even less than the difference we see on the pictures.

That's why it takes so much power, so much light to achieve these throws. That's why I'm so excited about M1X. TK40 is a close shave and no doubt an amazing performer too, but not the winner. Not for me. 

That's all.


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## AusKipper (Aug 7, 2009)

I can assure all involved that the 630lm rating is the OTF rating, not the emitter rating, which would be something like the 900lm the DX lights think they are.

Whether it really is 630lm or 580 or whatever we wont know till MrGman puts on in the sphere, but i'm pretty sure it will be more than 380, looking at Fenix's track record they seem to be fairly accurate (dont know what happened with the TA30 though..)

I also dont see a clear winner between the two, though the M1X does appear to throw a bit further, i would take the AA batteries and TK40 form factor over the M1X anyday.


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 7, 2009)

If you like a smaller light the 47`s MC-E light with 500 OTF lumen should be out in a month or so. Selling for around $100...and running on a single 18650 batt. If it`s anything like the Quarks quality it could be a great bang for the buck light.


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## AusKipper (Aug 7, 2009)

Palaeoboy said:


> I was considering the TK40 to replace a halogen spotlight but someone mentioned its more of a floodlight than a spotlight. I like the fact that it takes AA batteries but I would have liked a settng in between high at 277 lumens and turbo at 630 lumens. Any Aussies here use this light for spotlighting in the bush at night?



The TK40 would be fine for spotlighting rabbits on foot with a .22/shotgun .

I primarily spotlight with a vehicle and use a lightforce SL240, which of course has MUCH more throw than the TK40, however, wheeling a wheelbarrow with a car battery + that in it isnt really practical (and a battery small enough to carry wont last very long..)

You can also spotlight rabbits decently with a TK11 up to the PBR range of a .22 no problems.


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## Palaeoboy (Aug 8, 2009)

Mr Floppy said:


> If the halogen spotlight you're thinking about is a 5 million candle power, 6V 55W spotlight or something similar to that, then taking it out into the bush its heavy and not the easiest thing to carry.
> 
> There are 500,000 candle power halogen lights. I think mines a dorcy, it has a cigarette lighter plug ,and its really cheap but beam is really ugly compared to the TK40. In terms of illumination, the TK40 is much much better. It has a smooth spot and great spill and shines a long long way. It nothing like a flood light but you can use it as one because the spill lights up a bbq area really well from a height.
> 
> Only wish the tint was different. When the beam hits close up silvery foilage, its a little too bright and it hurts the night vision.



Yes thats exactly the sort of spotlight I have. Its a Michelin one actually same as the tyre company but with a built in battery it is quite heavy and only lasts for 15mins on a charge. I wasnt it actually wanting it for shooting but bushwalks and camping trips to spotlight all the nocturnal animals that come out in the trees etc. The Michelin you cant really take bushwalking its just too large.


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## AusKipper (Aug 8, 2009)

Palaeoboy said:


> Yes thats exactly the sort of spotlight I have. Its a Michelin one actually same as the tyre company but with a built in battery it is quite heavy and only lasts for 15mins on a charge. I wasnt it actually wanting it for shooting but bushwalks and camping trips to spotlight all the nocturnal animals that come out in the trees etc. The Michelin you cant really take *bushwanking* its just too large.



Too large to take *bushwanking *eh? lol

To be honest, and joking aside, the TK40 sounds just about perfect for your needs. Even if its not perfect for that, it has tonnes of other uses, and makes an excellent emergency light (simply cos of the long long runtime on low, and low is enough lumins to find your way around the house..)

As an alternitive to the TK40 you might also want to think about a hotted up maglite, like the Mag85, but, personally, I would take the TK40 anyday


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## Palaeoboy (Aug 8, 2009)

AusKipper said:


> Too large to take *bushwanking *eh? lol
> 
> To be honest, and joking aside, the TK40 sounds just about perfect for your needs. Even if its not perfect for that, it has tonnes of other uses, and makes an excellent emergency light (simply cos of the long long runtime on low, and low is enough lumins to find your way around the house..)
> 
> As an alternitive to the TK40 you might also want to think about a hotted up maglite, like the Mag85, but, personally, I would take the TK40 anyday



Woops, thats an embarrassing typo if ever there was one! The TK40 sounds like the way to go then. Now just to find one locally will be the hard part. I guess mail order is the go.


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## AusKipper (Aug 8, 2009)

Palaeoboy said:


> Woops, thats an embarrassing typo if ever there was one! The TK40 sounds like the way to go then. Now just to find one locally will be the hard part. I guess mail order is the go.



PM sent


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## jirik_cz (Aug 8, 2009)

maniacdave said:


> Overall light output - some say TK40 is brighter compared to M1X, but it just isn't true. I guess this opinion might be caused by different manuf. rating. TK40 says 630 lumens, M1X says 450. The difference is that TK40 rating is for the diode, whereas M1X is for the *actual flashlight output* (diode having 700lm). I'd guess TK40's actual output is somewhere around the usual 60%, 380lm.



Hello Dave, the TK40 on the beamshots is the M-bin version and it is brighter than M1X in my lightbox (MrGman's style styrofoam sphere). Actually it has the same luminous flux as 800lm M2XC4 in my sphere...



maniacdave said:


> I cannot imagine such a torch spouting 90% of the light untouched. It just isn't realistic. BTW, the number, 380lm, was a pure guess based on common percentages of light loss and some testing.



I already did some measurements in my sphere with various LED flashlights with and without reflector. The measurement shows that average loss of lumens is around 15% OTF. But some of the best flashlights have losses lower than 10%. The 450 OTF lumen claim by jetbeam is too conservative.


----------



## maniacdave (Aug 8, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> Hello Dave, the TK40 on the beamshots is the M-bin version and it is brighter than M1X in my lightbox (MrGman's style styrofoam sphere). Actually it has the same luminous flux as 800lm M2XC4 in my sphere...



Thanks for sharing. I didn't do any measurements myself, obviously. The numbers - as stated - are mere guesstimates. As I said, my conviction is rooted in my test and I think we can agree that manufacturer numbers, though important as a general pointer, don't necessarily represent real world performance. Then there is of course sample variation, which would explain different experiences.

I tried to be clear about the overview and my bias being subjective. It's what _I_ think and what made _me_ decide for M1X.

As for M2XC4 3xCree Q3 and TK40 comparison (not mine), these images seem to be contrary to your statement about TK40 having the same output. I'm not talking about Eagletac's superior throw, but the overall light present in the scene. Are you sure about your methodology?

TK40:






M2XC4 3xCree Q3:





I doesn't look like a match. On the other hand, comparing the M2XC4 image with the previous Jetbeam M1X. I'd say they're much closer, wouldn't you? Compare all by switching between 3 browser tabs each with one direct image URL. Overlaid, instead of one above the other, it's more visible.

Just don't quote me on this. The images aren't mine and my conviction doesn't stand on them. They're here to illustrate my point as something more than purely subjective notions.



jirik_cz said:


> I already did some measurements in my sphere with various LED flashlights with and without reflector. The measurement shows that average loss of lumens is around 15% OTF. But some of the best flashlights have losses lower than 10%. The 450 OTF lumen claim by jetbeam is too conservative.



That would mean extremely high quality materials. Earlier I was willing to accept 20% for that kind of reflector and build, but 10% is rather far fetched. My numbers are what was common when I was a college student (physics major) few years back. I don't doubt that quality of these flashlights is a different ballpark to what was usual then, that's why I wanted to get one in the first place.  If we're moving within these levels of clarity and reflectivity, I think I could be persuaded to believe your 15%. Even though TK40 has a smaller front diameter, the reflector is anything but large.

I'd have to see a complete scientific analysis of TK40, though, before you'll be able to convince me of your numbers.  I'm not a theoretical physicist, but an engineer. I rely on empirical results as much as on my theory. 

In the end I'd like to repeat that TK40 is great and all, but I don't want it. <joke>If it helps, you can think I'm stupid and blind not to see it for the bestest torchie-worchie in the whole of Toyland.  I won't mind.</joke>


----------



## jirik_cz (Aug 8, 2009)

maniacdave said:


> As for M2XC4 3xCree Q3 and TK40 comparison (not mine), these images seem to be contrary to your statement about TK40 having the same output. I'm not talking about Eagletac's superior throw, but the overall light present in the scene. Are you sure about your methodology?



Dave, thanks for the pictures. These pictures are *mine* :wave: Also please not that hot linking of the images is prohibited on CPF.
I'm pretty sure about my methodology. You can not judge the luminous flux from just one set of beamshots. That is really impossible... Also we are not talking about big differences. Just 5-15% difference. 



maniacdave said:


> That would mean extremely high quality materials. Earlier I was willing to accept 20% for that kind of reflector and build, but 10% is rather far fetched. My numbers are what was common when I was a college student (physics major) few years back.



Do you mean efficiency of the reflective material itself? Or the incandescent bulb + reflector or LED + reflector efficiency?

You can not use numbers common for incandescents because LEDs have different beam characteristics (more light goes forward and is not affected by the reflector at all...). 

Reflector efficiency itself might be just 70%, but because only 50% (rough guess) of the light emited by the LED hits the reflector, the overall light efficiency still can be ~85% or even more.


----------



## maniacdave (Aug 8, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> Dave, thanks for the pictures. These pictures are *mine* :wave: Also please not that hot linking of the images is prohibited on CPF.



A job well done then. There aren't many M1X images on the web, especially in comparison with other flashlights. Very useful for my purposes.

I'm looking forward to reporting back here when my M1X arrives. I'll be able to provide a better comparison, I hope. Specifically targeted at M1X vs. TK40. Sadly, I don't have lab access any more, so don't expect real analysis from me.



jirik_cz said:


> I'm pretty sure about my methodology. You can not judge the luminous flux from just one set of beamshots. That is really impossible..



Is it now? :naughty:

Not being in the lab, it is hard to argue with figures. Being on this forum it is hard to argue without figures. Guys here just rely too much on them. I cannot overstate how misleading the numbers can be if one takes them without the proverbial grain of salt and common sense. Boys will be boys, right? We need the numbers and we need the most powerful toys.



jirik_cz said:


> Do you mean efficiency of the reflective material itself? Or the incandescent bulb + reflector or LED + reflector efficiency?
> 
> You can not use numbers common for incandescents because LEDs have different beam characteristics (more light goes forward and is not affected by the reflector at all...).
> 
> Reflector efficiency itself might be just 70%, but because only 50% (rough guess) of the light emited by the LED hits the reflector, the overall light efficiency still can be ~85% or even more.



A _"rough guess"_ indeed.  I might have to take issue with you after all.  You clearly underestimate the scatter factor, the energy of light _radiates_. To begin with, Cree MC-E has a beam divergence of 110° FWHM and with its spatial radiation pattern, you can rest assured it's way more. You have to think volumes, it's 3D arithmetic.

I don't like inventing figures to support my arguments, even my guesstimates in this topic are mostly useless. Even with my experience I don't dare say how much light actually reflects in these two flashlights. It's not the point of this discussion anyway.

Nice chat though this is, I'll have to retire. Thanks again for your review and replies.


----------



## Mr Floppy (Aug 8, 2009)

Palaeoboy said:


> I wasnt it actually wanting it for shooting but bushwalks and camping trips to spotlight all the nocturnal animals that come out in the trees etc


I actually use a TK20 for possum spotting. I dont know what it is but with a TK20 which has a warm tint, the possums will usually keep doing whatever they are doing (something similar to bushwanking you could say). With the TK40, they just stop and stare back at you.

The TK40 is good on a croc spotting trip though. Just shine it above the waterlevel about metre and you can see all these glimmering eyes reflecting back at you.


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## SemperFi (Aug 8, 2009)

I have just recently acquired the TK40 from the UK and not long after, three weeks later, received by post from Germany, my latest bazooka or better know as the X21 LED Lenser............. 

I have them both in my backpack, next to the two lappys (Mac & Toshiba) and boy... its HayVEE... 

But I'm packed for blasting the nights out of any raccoon or owl staring at my approach!!! 

I found the TK40 awesome and offers an excellent size to grip on even though, my hip hoist the T1 as well on any trip I make out through the front door. 

When I read abt the TK40.... I just couldn't wait and ordered online some 2 hours later after comparing around coz


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## crockett (Aug 8, 2009)

Does anyone have the original thread source for those beam shots they are awesome!

Anyone on the fence about buying a TK40 would immediately buy one after seeing these beam shots. The one thing I would be aware of though is that I just read a post about one of the stores getting a lot of returns on the TK40 because people were loading the batteries in backwards and it was reeking havoc on them. It was an old post though so that might have been addressed by Fenix. So if you can live with carefully putting in the batteries it appears this light is a fantastic choice. 

Did you happen to see the thread where someone tried to destroy one? Amazing how much abuse it took. He was never able to destroy, instead losing it  before finishing his tests. 

The beam shots are very nice. They also show there is lot of arguing about nothing. All three of these lights are _very_ close.

Here is how I see it:

-First the M1X shots were taken at a completely different time so that is totally unfair to the M1X. Who knows if the tripod wasn't 2" higher, lower, etc. Same angle etc. Once you move a tripod, all bets are off.

However, based on what I see....

1) The TK40 has the widest spread close up. This is obvious. I believe it has the best color rendition but just by a hair over the M2XC4.

2) That M2XC4 is really a WALL of light. Look at the trees to the sides in the middle ground of the picture compared to the other two. The M2XC4 whacky beam pattern up close is ugly compared to the other two. The M2XC4 seems to be throwing the furthest but just a hair over the M1X. The M2XC4 has the most impressive spill in the close to medium distance. This is the one area where I don't think its really close. Its quite a bit more spill than the other two in the medium distances.

3)The M2XC4 seems to be aimed just slightly higher than the other two. If not, wow does it push a big cloud of light deep into that trail (compared to the other two).

I'll take all 3!!!

It makes me happy that I just purchased a M2XC4. It was either that or the TK40 but 8 batteries gave me headaches just thinking about it. Still doesn't mean I won't buy one because I like the design and form and I also like its durability appeal. The M2XC4 is one ugly looking light at least from the photos I've seen. We'll see once I get it.


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## recDNA (Aug 8, 2009)

crockett said:


> Does anyone have the original thread source for those beam shots they are awesome!
> 
> Anyone on the fence about buying a TK40 would immediately buy one after seeing these beam shots. The one thing I would be aware of though is that I just read a post about one of the stores getting a lot of returns on the TK40 because people were loading the batteries in backwards and it was reeking havoc on them. It was an old post though so that might have been addressed by Fenix. So if you can live with carefully putting in the batteries it appears this light is a fantastic choice.
> 
> ...


 
The weird handle stopped me from purchasing the M2X. Please let me know if it is comfortable in your hand.


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## Vesper (Aug 9, 2009)

recDNA said:


> The weird handle stopped me from purchasing the M2X. Please let me know if it is comfortable in your hand.



Ya, me too. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but that thing is homely. Now the M1X on the other hand is one SEXY flashlight!


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## Cartman (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: TK40 vs. M1X*



maniacdave said:


> I'd rather go for M1X. Initially, I was torn between TK40 and M1X, but the latter is clearly better. Specs and numbers are all fine, but real world performance cannot be judged solely on them.
> 
> Clever statement by Fenix "TK40 is the world's brightest, AA-powered flashlight" has to be taken with a pinch of salt. The keyword there is "AA-powered".  Although both have Cree MC-E diode, manuf. rated 700lm (at emitter), actual output depends on the current, the driver circuit and most importantly, the optics, where 30-60% of light volume gets lost.
> 
> ...



It looks like both lights are not actually zeroed here to me. The TK40 is pointed lower and the M1X is pointed slightly higher.

But I think you miss the point of the TK40 completely and I don't know why we have to keep bringing this up: AA batteries are easily found everywhere. In a disaster situation: earthquake, Katrina-scale hurricane or other such devastation where the power grid is offline for an extended period of time having access to AA as a power source for a very portable but also very powerful light makes it a better light -- for that application. I would agree that 18650's are a great choice and better under normal circumstances but the AA support is a primary feature that made me pick the TK40 over CR123/18650 systems. 

For me, it's the logistics.


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## tebore (Aug 9, 2009)

recDNA said:


> The weird handle stopped me from purchasing the M2X. Please let me know if it is comfortable in your hand.



The handle may look weird but it's great for use. As it allow you to turn the ring with your index finger and thumb. I thought it was great when I handled it. 

Sometimes we just gotta get the tactical hold out of our minds and look at a flashlight as just a lighting tool.


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## recDNA (Aug 9, 2009)

I had my TK40 out last night as it turns out. (Lost my glasses - der)

I forgot that it IS a very good thrower as well as a flood that lit up half my yard. I think I'll keep it! LOL

(No, I didn't find them. $400 up in smoke)


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## chef4850 (Aug 9, 2009)

I have both light and they are great lights! I have the both of them. I (imop) think the M1X is a brighter overall light but I still go to the TK40 when I want a change. I am eagerly waiting for the raptor-3 with the MC-E 3x18650. This is going to be another great light. i am partial to the jetbeam line as the build quality is outstanding! On the other hand Fenix is of equal quality as it was my very first quality light. I second,third and fourth everything that has been said. If you like it buy it! Tomaorrow something better WILL be here.


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## recDNA (Aug 9, 2009)

recDNA said:


> I had my TK40 out last night as it turns out. (Lost my glasses - der)
> 
> I forgot that it IS a very good thrower as well as a flood that lit up half my yard. I think I'll keep it! LOL
> 
> (No, I didn't find them. $400 up in smoke)


 

For those of you who were worried my glasses were found...but 106 miles from my yard so we cannot blame the TK40 for failing to light them up!

Thanks to the excellent security staff at Mystic Seaport Museum and a good Samaritan who turned them in!


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## Vesper (Aug 10, 2009)

recDNA said:


> my glasses were found...



Good deal! Now you have an extra $400 to spend on toys.


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## crockett (Aug 12, 2009)

recDNA said:


> The weird handle stopped me from purchasing the M2X. Please let me know if it is comfortable in your hand.


 
Well, the M2X arrived. Only a couple minutes to open it all up and inspect everything. No batteries so I couldn't even turn it on.

However, the first thing I did was hold it my hand and I loved the feel of it. I was worried it would be awkard but it's not at all. My hands are on the smaller size and I was wishing it was just a hair longer on the handle so my pinky would have somewhere to rest. Someone with larger hands might feel differently. Keep in mind I'm a newb to the LED world and I'm used to handling 2-3 cell maglites using the standard underhand grip. I think this is why I like grip on the M2X so much. I'm still not used to all this overhand thumb pushing.

The head is quite heavy making it a bit top heavy. We'll see if loading in the batteries help offset this a bit when they arrive.

What I wasn't expecting was the pouch. The holster is absolutely phenomenol. Very high quality, well made and it is perfect for the light. It has both a sewn loop you would thread your belt through and a snap loop (reinforced by velcro) so you can add the pouch to your belt without removing your belt.

The light was smaller than I expected (just like every other LED light I've purchased - 3 before this).


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## Dark Laser (Aug 12, 2009)

Erm...just a question about the TK40 (don't know if it was mentioned before):

According to this site (last paragraph), the TK40 should come out with 730lm as an upgraded version:
http://www.woodsmonkey.com/index.ph...2009-day-1&catid=80:2009-shot-show&Itemid=104

Does anyone know something about this?


@crokett: Congratulations :twothumbs


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## jirik_cz (Aug 12, 2009)

Dark Laser said:


> According to this site (last paragraph), the TK40 should come out with 730lm as an upgraded version:
> http://www.woodsmonkey.com/index.ph...2009-day-1&catid=80:2009-shot-show&Itemid=104
> 
> Does anyone know something about this?



This is quite an old news. The original plan was to launch TK40 with MC-E K-bin and 630 lumens and TK40 MC-E M-bin with 730 lumens. 

But nowadays Fenix is selling both versions as 630 lumens. If you will get M-bin version (probably most or all flashlights from new batches) you are basically getting moret than 630 lumens...


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## ubetit (Aug 12, 2009)

crockett said:


> However, the first thing I did was hold it my hand and I loved the feel of it. I was worried it would be awkard but it's not at all. My hands are on the smaller size and I was wishing it was just a hair longer on the handle so my pinky would have somewhere to rest. Someone with larger hands might feel differently. Keep in mind I'm a newb to the LED world and I'm used to handling 2-3 cell maglites using the standard underhand grip. I think this is why I like grip on the M2X so much. I'm still not used to all this overhand thumb pushing.
> 
> The head is quite heavy making it a bit top heavy. We'll see if loading in the batteries help offset this a bit when they arrive.


 
I have larger hands so the M2X is a little awkward to hold for me. I have some fingers that aren't happy after a half hour of holding it. I am amazed at the throw of this light however. 

I have a TK40 on the way so i'll be able to compare. I bought the TK40 mostly for the ability to power it by 8 AA NiMH cells like my Eneloop. It will be in the SHTF bag with one of my AR15s.


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## tebore (Aug 12, 2009)

For the guys saying the M2 is too short. After handling it I think what they had in mind is the thumb and index finger are always supposed to be over the control ring. 

At least that's the only way it seemed to fit my hand and I don't really large hands.


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 12, 2009)

My vote would be to wait at this point. Give it a month...maybe 2. Unless you have deep pockets... you will have many nice choices coming out soon. Then, if the TK-40 is still your top pick...go for it.


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## recDNA (Aug 12, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> This is quite an old news. The original plan was to launch TK40 with MC-E K-bin and 630 lumens and TK40 MC-E M-bin with 730 lumens.
> 
> But nowadays Fenix is selling both versions as 630 lumens. If you will get M-bin version (probably most or all flashlights from new batches) you are basically getting moret than 630 lumens...


 
How could I check mine to see which I have?


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## jahxman (Aug 12, 2009)

recDNA said:


> How could I check mine to see which I have?


 
You really can't, unless maybe you are an official Fenix distributor. Fenix for a few days had this information in their serial number registry thingy at

http://www.fenixlight.com.cn/snen.asp?action=search

It listed the bin of the LED but they took that away after TK40 buyers started to get excited about which bin they might have. If you didn't check your serial number while it was still up, you will probably never be able to know.

On the bright side, it really doesn't matter. No human can tell the difference between 630 and 730 lumens.


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## recDNA (Aug 12, 2009)

jahxman said:


> You really can't, unless maybe you are an official Fenix distributor. Fenix for a few days had this information in their serial number registry thingy at
> 
> http://www.fenixlight.com.cn/snen.asp?action=search
> 
> ...


 
Too bad nobody copied the chart and saved it!


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## jahxman (Aug 12, 2009)

recDNA said:


> Too bad nobody copied the chart and saved it!


 
It wasn't a chart - it was a database query form, just like it is now. So you would have to put in a specific serial number to get the information, just like now.


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## SemperFi (Aug 13, 2009)

jahxman said:


> ..... put in a specific serial number to get the information, just like now.



This is how mine showed up, and yes, I bought mine direct from a UK Retailer unlike my T1 which was from a Dutch Retailer. 

@Jahxman or anyone who knows, how should one understand this jargon/description "Orange Peel Reflector"? :thinking: 



> Serial Number: *1MG33300064*
> Model: TK40
> LED: CREE MC-E
> Reflector: Orange Peel Reflector
> ...




This is what I noticed in the TA21 which may next be on my quick list as it now has a convenient dial to select the choice mode for illumination.


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## tab665 (Aug 13, 2009)

SemperFi said:


> @Jahxman or anyone who knows, how should one understand this jargon/description "Orange Peel Reflector"? :thinking:


it simply mean the reflector has the texture of an orange peel. it gives the beam a smoother look and eliminates a lot of the light rings that would be present if it was a smooth reflector.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 13, 2009)

SemperFi said:


> @Jahxman or anyone who knows, how should one understand this jargon/description "Orange Peel Reflector"? :thinking:



Orange Peel Reflector = reflector with texture which reminds the orange peel
edit: too slow


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## ubetit (Aug 13, 2009)

tebore said:


> For the guys saying the M2 is too short. After handling it I think what they had in mind is the thumb and index finger are always supposed to be over the control ring.
> 
> At least that's the only way it seemed to fit my hand and I don't really large hands.


 
I do this but then the end cap ridges dig into my palm.


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## immtbiker (Sep 15, 2009)

I ordered and received the Fenix TK-12 as my first flashlight here on CPF. I have always been a Streamlight sort of guy. I was surprised to find out that t didn't come with a battery so I had to place a second order through Amazon.com B4 I could use it.

Live and learn.

Great, another hobby to spend my money on!


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 15, 2009)

*Re: TK40 vs. M1X*



maniacdave said:


> I'd rather go for M1X. Initially, I was torn between TK40 and M1X, but the latter is clearly better. Specs and numbers are all fine, but real world performance cannot be judged solely on them.
> 
> Clever statement by Fenix "TK40 is the world's brightest, AA-powered flashlight" has to be taken with a pinch of salt. The keyword there is "AA-powered".  Although both have Cree MC-E diode, manuf. rated 700lm (at emitter), actual output depends on the current, the driver circuit and most importantly, the optics, where 30-60% of light volume gets lost.
> 
> ...


I agree 110%

Great post!


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## leon2245 (Sep 16, 2009)

*wait*

Too many red flags for me. Ten minutes, having to lock it out, & those beamshots aside, it seems like the manufacturer is still trying to figure out which batteries are O.K. or not. Even worse with the retailers kept out of the loop on the issue, updating manuals etc. w/o telling them at least, per a recent post by 4-7's. 

:thumbsdow


Otherwise it looks like a nice bright light! Maybe for the 2nd or 3rd generation of it, on down the line.


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## Softcoder (Sep 16, 2009)

What about TK40 vs Olight M30?


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## Vicvic (Sep 16, 2009)

TK40 = 8 AA ... too many NiMH batteries. 

You need very good batteries ( like eneloops ) and very good charger-analyzer ( like MH-C9000 )

I think li-ion batteries are better for a Cree M-CE Led, then, ... another flashlight li-ion powered.


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## ubetit (Sep 16, 2009)

I've had my TK40 for about a month now and use it almost every night to walk the dog. I like the size of it and the AAs it takes. I have 24 eneloops anyway. I never run it on turbo as it is not needed on my walks. I am still on my first set of batteries with mostly low and medium brightness being used. 

My Eagletac M2XC4 is also a great light but it is not as comfortable in my hands. I love the throw it has though.


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## csshih (Sep 16, 2009)

*Re: wait*



leon2245 said:


> Too many red flags for me. :thumbsdow



as 47s himself has stated.. he does not like the 8AA format of the TK40.. impractical on many fronts.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 16, 2009)

Just my $.02 if you haven't bought the light already since this thread has been going on over a month. Get the TK40 - I still haven't been able to find a light that puts it to shame.

And I have tried:
- SuperStorm - bright but floody, can't throw as far or as nice tint.
- M2XC4 - great thrower but TK40 still out throws with a brighter wider spot
- M20 Ti - beautiful light but much more flood for up close
- MC-Explorer - a bit brighter than M20 Ti but still dimmer and not as tight a spot as TK40.​I thought at least one of these would replace the TK40 but it still stands as a top favorite for throw and flood, etc. Now only if it was a bit smaller....... but 8 x NiMH is no biggie for me. I've got 2 Energizer AA/AAA NiMH chargers ($20 each with 4 NiMH AAs) which juice them up in about 2-2.5 hours and good to go.

It is very unlikely that anyone would put in batteries backwards in this light - it is so obvious which way they go.

I have NEVER had heat problems. Left it on Turbo for 20-30 minutes and it didn't get too hot. Did a runtime test on the Eneloops as well with a fan blowing over it and ran for 1:45 solid on Turbo with no heat issues.

For comparison I think I could cook an egg on it after the SuperStorm is on for 10 minutes even being handheld.


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## js-lots (Sep 16, 2009)

I would definitely wait. It seems like every three months they are coming out with a better, brighter and more efficient led. I am waiting for more lights to yield the power of the sst50 and sst90 leds.


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## bill_n_opus (Sep 17, 2009)

*Re: wait*



csshih said:


> as 47s himself has stated.. he does not like the 8AA format of the TK40.. impractical on many fronts.


 
Did he say that? I don't remember "impractical on many fronts" ... please source that otherwise it would be a shame to potentially turn away people based on misinformation. 

IIRC, what 47's said was that Fenix was getting a "higher rate of return" on these lights because people were getting into conflict with the 8xAA setup by improperly slotting in batteries, running turbo mode with alkalines causing leakage and internal damage etc ... 

That seems to be the issue. 

People who have commented that they have not run into any of these problems are typically people who are running 8xAA Eneloops LSD and are more educated about batteries/typical CPF'er re: charging and taking care of flashlights/batteries in general. 

47's commented about the new tk20 not having the 8xAA setup because of Fenix wanting to not go the AA route again which for aforementioned reasons has more room for error. Fenix don't want to get hassled with returns like any other manufacturer ... they've been through the AA setup and perhaps it's more trouble than it's worth (ie: regular people versus educated flashaholics)


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## ubetit (Sep 17, 2009)

*Re: wait*



csshih said:


> as 47s himself has stated.. he does not like the 8AA format of the TK40.. impractical on many fronts.


 
I think it is practical on many fronts. Too bad the people that can't follow directions ruin it for the ones that can. And while i respect 47's, that's only one man's opinion anyway.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 17, 2009)

js-lots said:


> I would definitely wait. It seems like every three months they are coming out with a better, brighter and more efficient led. I am waiting for more lights to yield the power of the sst50 and sst90 leds.


 
I don't disagree with this statement entirely; however, having bought a SST50 M20 Ti I have to say the spot/spill is not as nice as the TK40. The MC-E (whatever tint) produces a very nice consistent light. The SST50 with the OP reflector is bluer towards the center and greener around the edges. When using the smooth reflector the light produced it pretty terrible looking.


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## js-lots (Sep 17, 2009)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> I don't disagree with this statement entirely; however, having bought a SST50 M20 Ti I have to say the spot/spill is not as nice as the TK40. The MC-E (whatever tint) produces a very nice consistent light. The SST50 with the OP reflector is bluer towards the center and greener around the edges. When using the smooth reflector the light produced it pretty terrible looking.



You are one of the first people I found to say that about the sst50. I appreciate your input. Of all the beamshots I could find, both the 90 and the 50 appear to produce a nice hotspot with a bit more throw than the mc-e. However, you are right about the tint, they do appear to be on the blue-ish side. I just appreciate the future potential of these led's when the bigger companies start mass producing these flashlights. We are already seeing the mce being harnessed for its fullest potential. With the sst's, we are not even close. Once the heatsinking and powering issues are perfected I think as single dies go, we are going to see a new benchmark with the sst.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 17, 2009)

js-lots said:


> You are one of the first people I found to say that about the sst50. I appreciate your input. Of all the beamshots I could find, both the 90 and the 50 appear to produce a nice hotspot with a bit more throw than the mc-e. However, you are right about the tint, they do appear to be on the blue-ish side. I just appreciate the future potential of these led's when the bigger companies start mass producing these flashlights. We are already seeing the mce being harnessed for its fullest potential. With the sst's, we are not even close. Once the heatsinking and powering issues are perfected I think as single dies go, we are going to see a new benchmark with the sst.


 
No problem, I'm just sharing what I see. It is still a very nice and usable light from the SST50 for the size of the flashlight. Also the tint of the MC-E in my TK40 is a beautiful neutral to warm color (guess I just lucked out) because any other MC-Es I have seen are much cooler).

Here are three snapshots of: (all shots are a little warmer than real life)

1 Wolf-Eyes MC-E






2 - M20 Ti on 2 RCR123





3 - TK40 on Turbo with 8xEneloops





Now maybe I just got a really nice die for the TK40 but it is one of the nicest lights I've ever seen.


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## bansuri (Sep 17, 2009)

TK40 = 8 points of failure. 
If 1 cell fails you have to take it apart and isolate it to use the 4 cells option by the light of your backup light. If the bad cell was 1 of 2 defectives that you are carrying then you're in for the same problem on the next change. 
Why not just run it on 500 CR2032s? 
Ugh.
Hopefully V2 comes out with a more sensible battery configuration. I think it will be worth the wait as it's built like a tank and it has impressive output.


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## js-lots (Sep 17, 2009)

Those pictures are nice. Thanks for that. The sst looks a bit on the cool side. Big hot spot though. And I notice you are driving it on 2 123's. what kinda of amperage is that pulling? I would imagine the 18650 would be brighter. It seems the mce beats it out, with a nice tight hotspot. thanks


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 17, 2009)

js-lots said:


> Those pictures are nice. Thanks for that. The sst looks a bit on the cool side. Big hot spot though. And I notice you are driving it on 2 123's. what kinda of amperage is that pulling? I would imagine the 18650 would be brighter. It seems the mce beats it out, with a nice tight hotspot. thanks


 
I don't want get lashed for going off topic here , but since this is a thread about making a decision on a light I figure all information can be helpful.

The M20 Ti on 2xRCR123 draw between 750-800mA, on one 18650 (AW 2600 mAh protected) it draws about 1.4 A with a V sag to about 4.06V. Since there is no regulation the current on the 18650 drops over time. The light does get very hot fast on 2xRCR123 and stays pretty cool on on 18650 - there is a slight noticable difference in light output with 2xRCR being brighter and having a slightly larger spot. Yes - the spot is huge and the spill is great - this is an awesome around the house light.

MC-E has tighter spot, I think it a bit brighter overall but is also unregulated. Current draw on a fresh 18650 is about 2.4 A.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 17, 2009)

bansuri said:


> TK40 = 8 points of failure.
> If 1 cell fails you have to take it apart and isolate it to use the 4 cells option by the light of your backup light. If the bad cell was 1 of 2 defectives that you are carrying then you're in for the same problem on the next change.
> Why not just run it on 500 CR2032s?
> Ugh.
> Hopefully V2 comes out with a more sensible battery configuration. I think it will be worth the wait as it's built like a tank and it has impressive output.


 
Honestly this sounds like an extreme POV. Yes 2x18650 has the same power density as 8xAA running in a 4S2P configuration but this light just feels more powerful and solid.
I've got the M2XC4 and it feels front-heavy. In a side by side comparison the the TK40 has better balance and feel - which is important too.
IMHO - 2x18650 side-by-side is just to wide for a comfortable grip and end to end just to long for a tiny tube to hold securely.


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## Shimon (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm assuming that 4sevens probably only has TK40 MC-E M-bin, or are they still making the K-bin version still? Even if I can't discern the amount of lumens coming from the flashlight, I'll still take 100 more lumens if I can get it.


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## spyderknut (Sep 17, 2009)

I'd rather wait for an 18650 powered light personally.


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## Luckybobo (Sep 28, 2009)

It all depends on your need. I live in Houston, TX. Right before the hurrican hit, we couldn't get any batteries except AA (don't ask me why). A lot of places did not have electricity for weeks. I was worring that all my 18650 battery lights might not do me any good. I was lucky and relieved that my house was only without electricity for 18 hours.

I just received my TK40 last month and I love it very much. I use the Sanyo eneloop batteries most of the time. I also tried the cheap Kirland AA batteries from Costco and they also worked like a charm. The size of TK40 is same as my Tigerlight (short version). But it seems that the TK40 put out lot more light than the Tigerlight.

For general and emergency purposes, it is hard to beat the TK40. Well worth the money.


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## jahxman (Sep 28, 2009)

Luckybobo said:


> For general and emergency purposes, it is hard to beat the TK40. Well worth the money.


 
+1

Gotta love that 150 hours on low at 13 lumens - which is actually a lot of light when it is very dark. That will get you through some long power outages.

I always keep a couple 8-packs of L91's around also, so when the 16 eneloops are done I have light for quite a while after that if necessary. And by then I will have rigged up a solar charging station for the eneloops.


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## NWdude83 (Sep 28, 2009)

What about the new itp A6 Polestar? 700 lumen with 6 AA's.


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## Databyter (Sep 29, 2009)

> Overall light output - some say TK40 is brighter compared to M1X, but it just isn't true. I guess this opinion might be caused by different manuf. rating. TK40 says 630 lumens, M1X says 450. The difference is that TK40 rating is for the diode, whereas M1X is for the *actual flashlight output* (diode having 700lm). I'd guess TK40's actual output is somewhere around the usual 60%, 380lm.



This statement is incorrect.

I understand your point but your data is wrong.

Please review the many review threads that discuss both types of lumens data for both lights.

If anything the Fenix is being very accurate and conservative in their advertisment of Torch Lumens in my opinion. And as far as the m1x, it is stated on the review in cpf reviews forum that the torch (flashlight output) lumens are 450 and the overall (at diode) is 700

PASTED FROM SELFBUILT'S REVIEW OF M1X



> Specs (from the manufacturer):
> 
> LED: CREE MC-E
> Max Output: 450 Lumen (Torch Lumen) / 700 Lumen (LED Lumen)
> ...



Keep in mind that originally the TK40 was going to be advertised at ,.. if memory serves aproximatly 930 Lumens and this was modified down probably to reflect the output off of their improved reflector and output vs diode production.

I don't have a m1x although it appears to be a fine and powerful light. 

I do have a TK40 and let me tell you, it is every bit of 630 lumens out the window including a tremendous spill combined with a laser like throw.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 29, 2009)

Databyter said:


> This statement is incorrect.
> 
> I understand your point but your data is wrong.
> 
> ...


The 2nd generation (Selfbuilt has tested the 1st gen) of the M1X is withuot any doubt, definitely brighter than the TK40. JetBeam is being as conservative as SureFire.


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## jirik_cz (Sep 30, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> The 2nd generation (Selfbuilt has tested the 1st gen) of the M1X is withuot any doubt, definitely brighter than the TK40. JetBeam is being as conservative as SureFire.



Define term "brighter". TK40 M-bin has slightly more lumens than M1X 2nd generation in my sphere. But M1X has more throw (25k lux vs 18,5k lux).


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## jahxman (Sep 30, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> The 2nd generation (Selfbuilt has tested the 1st gen) of the M1X is withuot any doubt, definitely brighter than the TK40. JetBeam is being as conservative as SureFire.


 
In my informal ceiling bounce tests the current generation M1X is a little brighter than the TK40:






EDIT: I don't know if my TK40 has an M-bin or K-bin MC-E in it; it was a pre-order so it is quite possible that it is a K-bin. Fenix removed that info from their site before I was able to check it. I DO know that my M1X is the recent generation OD green version, received about a month ago.


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## rumme (Sep 30, 2009)

*Is the Fenix TK40 currently the ......*

Brightest LED flashlight being offered in a AA battery format at the lowest cost ? 


If so, is there anything rumoured to be coming out soon, around the same price range using AA batterys, that will outperform the TK40 ?


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## DM51 (Sep 30, 2009)

*Re: Is the Fenix TK40 currently the ......*

Welcome to CPF, rumme.

There's another thread where members are discussing whether or not they should wait for something better, so I'll merge your question in there.


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## rumme (Sep 30, 2009)

*Re: Is the Fenix TK40 currently the ......*



rumme said:


> Brightest LED flashlight being offered in a AA battery format at the lowest cost ?
> 
> 
> If so, is there anything rumoured to be coming out soon, around the same price range using AA batterys, that will outperform the TK40 ?


 
I guess the itp 6 polestar is the main one on the horizon that can compete with the Fenix tk40, for about half the price. When is it due for release ?


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## Databyter (Oct 1, 2009)

Thanks for updating my knowledge a bit you guys. I stand corrected.

I didn't realize there were two generations of that light (M1X) but that explains some of the data not being too consistant.

I still believe however that the 630 lumens advertised for the Fenix is Torch lumens and not total LED output which I expect is quite a bit higher.

I love the ceiling bounce chart by the way and it reminds me that I need to rip apart my new Mag85 Mod at some point since on your chart the ROP is topping off the herd and I know the mag85 is supposed to be a bit brighter. but so far in my experience with enelopes although I am VERY happy with the light and it is super bright and actually has better than expected run times it is not really any brighter than my TK40 on Turbo.

I expect this may be due to me using a stock switch. Also I was wondering if I just kept stock parts and disassembled all contact points and coated it with progold or deoxit ( same stuff I hear) would I notice a perceivable difference in max brightness?

This would be a rainy day project as the light serves my needs well at work now. But I'm curious about maximizing what I have.

Will the higher resistance actually make this light a bit more reliable?


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## jahxman (Oct 1, 2009)

Databyter said:


> I love the ceiling bounce chart by the way and it reminds me that I need to rip apart my new Mag85 Mod at some point since on your chart the ROP is topping off the herd and I know the mag85 is supposed to be a bit brighter. but so far in my experience with enelopes although I am VERY happy with the light and it is super bright and actually has better than expected run times it is not really any brighter than my TK40 on Turbo.
> 
> I expect this may be due to me using a stock switch. Also I was wondering if I just kept stock parts and disassembled all contact points and coated it with progold or deoxit ( same stuff I hear) would I notice a perceivable difference in max brightness?
> 
> ...


 
I'm using a stock switch in my ROP; I am not using eneloops in it, I am using 6 high discharge Elite 1700 NiMH batteries. I also have a Mag85 running on 9 of them; I find they make it brighter than using eneloops. 

The Mag85 was in my car the day I did the ceiling bounce measurements; sometime soon I will update the chart with all my lights and fresh batteries in them. 

I did take everything apart in my hotwire Mags and clean them with deoxit; I expect I will need to put better switches in at some point, but for now they are working fine.


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## chuKKy (Oct 1, 2009)

Hi, i'm new to your forum and am considering the TK40 as my first purchase. I'm based in the UK, would it be cheaper to buy online from the states rather than in the UK? Would I get hit with any import charges?

Thanks in advance.

Martin.


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## Databyter (Oct 4, 2009)

That's a good question and I don't have an answer to it.

But I am guessing you would be better off buying it from a UK based supplier who already has import figured into price.

It shouldn't necesarily be cheaper in the USA since it is made in CHINA.

DOn't let that fool you though. As many on this forum will tell you, Fenix is a high quality manufacturer regardless of Country of origin.


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## Pummy (Nov 22, 2009)

I am looking at getting one also and I will order from an EU distributor or UK distributor. If you try to import from the states and customs hits you (as the import value cannot exceed £18) you will pay approx 1/3 more than the price in dollars. Just a warning, you may be OK, however I am risk averse and do not want the hassle.

I had a question about if LIFEPO4 14500 cells with 3.3V resting voltage with a spacer can replace the low 4 cell mode into a 2 cell lipo driven mode?
Or be used with 2* D sized cells of the same chemistry replacing the internal pack completely.

Apologies if the Fenix drive circuit input voltage has already been discussed for this model, as I only found this thread and another which quotes max as 6.8V. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/230799

But I read this thread...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/234350

And at 5A draw it shows a voltage of around 3.1V per cell (6.2V combined)

I have not been able to find anything and it is getting late in London (2am) so has anyone got any input on this running setup with the Fenix driver?


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## SemperFi (Nov 23, 2009)

Pummy said:


> I am looking at getting one also and I will order from an EU distributor or UK distributor. If you try to import from the states and customs hits you (as the import value cannot exceed £18) you will pay approx 1/3 more than the price in dollars. Just a warning, you may be OK, however I am risk averse and do not want the hassle.



Despite the weight at first feel... it was a better deal (*cheaper too as a matter of fact*) ordering direct from a UK Seller/Vendor. Mine arrived faster than anticipated and is as good as any other in its class. 
When travelling between AUS and NZ recently, my *TK40* was a passover... no problems but it was for my *X-21 Led Lenser*. It was considered a potential "weapon" for an Ordnance hence, it has to be undone, batteries removed and nicely repacked and it landed in the cargo bay like all other baggage and once in Christchurch, NZ, i simply went to claim it, no hassle but they(NZ Customs) sure like the demonstration I gave with a pleasure and smile... *WOW*... was their excitement seeing the blast en throw of my mini bazooooka...haeheh.


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## applevision (Nov 23, 2009)

Not to be too much of a 4sevens fanboy, but if you have some time, there are murmurings of a SST-90 light coming from 4sevens... maybe very soon!

That and his new 500 lumen (OTF) Maelstrom, also supposedly coming within the next week or two (or three...).

These _could_ be game-changers. 10 year warranty, excellent products so far, state-of-the-art LEDs and technology, and they should be some of the brightest lights pound-for-pound making them very efficient duty carries...

But they are still sort of vaporware at this point.


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