# New flashaholic needs your help with 18v worklight led replacement!



## HB021 (Aug 4, 2011)

Hello everyone!

I'm new to this forum but I've been reading stuff here for a while.
Now I need your help to find or make a good led replace for a 18v Makita flashlight bml 185. 

I've seen many post here at the forum in this matter but I want something different, like 3x XM-L T6 or similar power around 3000lumen+ flood light.
I guess a good heatsink is required and a lot of modifications.

Any useful tips would be great! 

Edit:
Here is the results!

Max power: 4000+ lumen @ 3A
Med power: 2600 lumen @ 1,5A
Min power: 1300 lumen @ 0,75A

Estimated running time:
Max power: 1h 20min
Med power: 2h 25min
Min power: 4h 30min

Did a little ceiling bounce back test and compared it to a single Cree XML T6 @ 1,5A... It had 13 times greater lux! =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJhs53PrCFo









Here's some beamshot just after the sun went down, using an iPhone cam is really bad because it makes everything darker than it seems, but it's only camera I've got. Actually all trees were lit up by all three lights but only visible on the high beam(8400 lumen has an insane throw):

Cree XM-L T6 @ 1,5A (600 lumen manufacturer rated):





4x Cree XM-L U2 @ 3A (4000 lumen manufacturer rated):





200w HID high+low beam (16800 lumen manufacturer rated):





This is the original output:





This is the new output(using HDR mode on iPhone):





Low beams on car(100w HID 8400lumens, looks red in camera but they're 4300K):





Makita BML185 mod(4000lumens):





Single Cree XM-L T6 (600lumen):





Here's a comparison of the different modes. Please not that the flickering/rendering in the pictures is from the PWM dimming and is only visible in camera. As always it's actually brighter than the (iphone)camera shows;

Maximum:





Medium:





Minimum:


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## Norm (Aug 4, 2011)

Moved to Homemade and Modified Flashlights Discussion - Norm


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## Epsilon (Aug 6, 2011)

First of all, you will need a buck driver that can take the input voltage, and preferably has different brightness levels. Look at Der wichtels p7 driver for a start, its not the only one, but a good place to start.

The next thing will probably be a heatsink and fan. The use of a fan will be necessary if you want to use the light for extended periods of time, which you can with such a large battery. A 24v fan will be the easiest, so you can directly power it from the battery. 

The heatsink can be of a CPU, preferably an older type, which measures 60 * 60mm and uses 60mm fan. This all due to size limitations.

The last thing you might need to do, is make the swith on/off if it isn't already.


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## HB021 (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks for your reply! 
That information was very useful to me however;
I have a few more questions;

1) http://www.dealextreme.com/p/30w-2400lm-led-emitter-metal-plate-white-16v- 18v-904439959 is this even possible to use due to its size?

2) What emitter do recommend to use in this type of flashlight?
Im not after long throw maybe 10m with a lot of flood light.
I've looked at SST-90, XM-Ls and mc-e. 
I have a big 2000lumen 240v working light but it doesnt have enough throw or
light output to fill the dark area outside my appartment where i usually use to 
cut wood. A 500w halogen light is just the kind of light i want in mobile format, 
if it's possible....


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## Epsilon (Aug 7, 2011)

Use 3x XM-L if you want serious light.

Can you post a picture of the Makita light we are talking about? I'm imagining a light that can be used with a battery from a cordless drill.


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## HB021 (Aug 7, 2011)

Makita BML185 powered by 3,0ah 18v Li-battery. 
I haven't recieved it yet so I can't upload any pictures yet. I do not know the reflector size either but i think it's 80mm. And 1 more thought; the XML t6 seems to have different driving voltage on different pages, the maximum voltage varors between 3,5v to 4,2v. 
But can I use 4 or 5 of these in a serial connection (if they fit) so I won't be needing something to correct the voltage?


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## HB021 (Aug 7, 2011)




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## HB021 (Aug 13, 2011)

Update: 
It seems the battery-pack I'm using has 10x 18650 batteries, but the output is 18v so i guess they're 50/50 serial/paralell. I have 3 of those and only 30min charge time so I don't wont to hold back on the power output. Anyway with this batterypack how long can i expect 3 versus 5 XM-Ls to run on maximum?

I've looked at this driver right here: SKU 57779
3 of those with 3 XM-Ls. But I'm not sure its enough with 3000lumens to light up a room...

5 XM-L T6 in direct drive should be atleast 4500 lumen (about 250w halogen worklight?). 

Any thoughts?


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## Epsilon (Aug 13, 2011)

Meassure the voltage of te battery fresh of the charger, it might be higher than 18v and damage the driver if it can't handle it.

Look at the Der Wichtels driver for a decent driver which goes up to 21v (IIRC). This is a buck driver and can power 4 * XM-L in series max.

The reflector isn't really usefull for your application. A very small reflector for each XM-L used does the trick and isn't as deep as this one (You will need all the room in the light for cooling!).

Remember that you need active cooling! Try to find that first, and try to fit it.


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## HB021 (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks for reply and yes I was thinking a 18,5mm wide x 12mm deep reflector for each XM-L for flood light, but light in the right direction hehe.
I've both looked and contacted Der Witchel about the the driver it seems very good but it requires a momentary switch and mine has a click on/off button.
About the active cooling; I found an old GPU fan 40mm with a flat heatsink from a ATI Radeon 9700Pro..... think that'll do? I don't know any technical spec on it so I'm not sure if it will break or not...


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## HB021 (Aug 13, 2011)

I measured the battery 20,0v fresh of charger.


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## Epsilon (Aug 13, 2011)

Computer fans are always 12v, so you need to source a different fan or use a resistor of a certAin size. But the 40mm fan will probably not be enough to cool 3 xm-ls. Ofcourse this depended of the heatsink. CPU heatsinks are larger most of the time, therefore better suited for cooling multiple leds. 

The 18mm reflector is exactly what I had in mind .


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## The_bad_Frag (Aug 13, 2011)

A cooler from a 9700 is not enough for 3 XM-L. Also the fan would be really loud.

A better solution would be to buy a real cheap cpu cooler like this and cut it to the size you need. Also you need a resistor or dc-dc constant voltage regulator for the fan because its only 12V.


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## HB021 (Aug 13, 2011)

Well I tried starting the fan with a 18500 battery and it didn't make a sound. But isn't there a lot of 3x XM-L flashlights out there with passive cooling? 
However, I still haven't found the measurements on the worklight (I haven't recieved mine yet) but I found a replacement drop in with 62mm diameter so I made i little drawing based on that just to try. Made with 5x XM-L just to try if it would fit. So a 92mm fan is too big....


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## HB021 (Aug 13, 2011)

Anyway what kind of resistor do I need? I don't really remember how to calculate that from school  

And does anyone know how long runtime I could expect from 3 vs 5 XM-Ls (30w vs 50w) plus a small fan?
The battery says 18v, 3Ah 54Wh so does that mean 1hour with 54w and like 1.8hour with 30w?

Might as well use SKU 18842 or SKU11922 and add something around to extend the diameter to save some crafting time 

Thanks for help


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## The_bad_Frag (Aug 13, 2011)

The resistor depends on the fan you want to use. So you need to choose a fan first.. Here is another one that is smaller. It can handle up to 30 watts of heat. 

Other lights with 3xXM-L and no active cooling have aluminum bodies which makes a large surface area for cooling. In a plastic light you need a fan and venting holes.

If you use a reflector like this make sure you find the LEDs on small enough stars. Those are really close together.

Here is a driver that can handle up to 5 [email protected] when heatsinked. They send you a free sense resistor with the driver to get the driver up to 3A when you ask. The best way to heatsink it is putting it on a thermal glue pad on the led-heatsink.


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## HB021 (Aug 13, 2011)

Ok I understand your point in active cooling. 

About the star on the XM-L I'm intrested in measures 18mm as seen in my little drawing.

That driver looks very interesting but I can't really understand deutsch, not even in google translator


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## The_bad_Frag (Aug 13, 2011)

Thats no problem.  I can make you a drawing how to connect it when u want to use it.


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## HB021 (Aug 13, 2011)

Haha okey, thanks I'll ask for your help when I have decided  thanks!


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## HB021 (Aug 24, 2011)

Update: 
Still looking for stuff; I think I am going to use the driver that The_Bad_Frag suggested but I need an additional momentary switch if I want to be able to adjust brightness. Problem is that it might not fit with another button in there and I don't want to change exterior if I really don't have to. 
Any ideas?

Additional info:
The beam is quite useless as a work light; a concentrated hotspot that throws about 3-4times further than the XML but it has alot weaker and wider spill.
I think the type of light from the XML is better to work with due to the color and I guess the beampattern has more to do with the large reflector.

Here beamshot for *before*-after (xenon bulb @ 400lumen maybe??):




And here's a beamshot of 1x XML driven with 1 x [email protected], 900lm according to dealer(500real lumens maybe??):


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## HB021 (Sep 13, 2011)

Argh.. Even though I almost payed 40% more from dealextreame for faster shipping, my 4x XML U2 still haven't even being shipped out yet. They should have been here 3 weeks ago! I'm starting to think they don't really have them at all :-(


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## JacobJones (Sep 13, 2011)

Have exactly the same makita 18volt torch as you. I considered modding mine a while ago but decided it was too difficult and not worth it. The stock makita 18volt bulb is really quite pathetic, it's dimmer than my Fenix LD20.


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## HB021 (Sep 13, 2011)

Well I don't think changing the original bulb to maybe a SST-90 emitter is hard. Using the same reflector with same on/off button and changing the original driver inside the handle to a SST90 driver you should be able to increase the lumens atleast 400% I guess.....


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## JacobJones (Sep 13, 2011)

Putting a new led in isn't hard. Having it heatsinked well enough to make that led last is more difficult.


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## HB021 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hehe true, how about only a Cree XML U2 @ 10watt on a small heatsink? Original bulb is on 11w...


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## HB021 (Sep 19, 2011)

So when the stuff shows up.. it seems one XML was defective  
But the others who are working are really bright!
The fan was defective too....
Some photos:













The camera(iphone4) normalizes the light and makes the weak one look brighter than it is and the bright one is actually too bright too look at!


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## mtnkid85 (Sep 19, 2011)

Well, bummer on the defective parts. But do keep us updated on the build as it progresses, Im interested in a very similiar project with the same light and battery.
Keep up the good work!


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## HB021 (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks, will do. I'm considering only using 3 but I want a lot more power than fandyfire 3x XML!

Fandyfire = 3 XML @ 2,6a / My project = 3 or 4 XML @ 3a


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## HB021 (Sep 21, 2011)

Stupid dealextreame, they don't seemto answer my complains. Should have ordered from other site :/


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## JacobJones (Sep 22, 2011)

They might take a while to answer emails, I believe they are very busy, or if you are rude they may ignore you completely.

http://services.dealextreme.com/forms/Replacement_Defective.aspx

go to this page if you want to return the faulty led for a replacement


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## HB021 (Sep 22, 2011)

JacobJones said:


> They might take a while to answer emails, I believe they are very busy, or if you are rude they may ignore you completely.
> 
> http://services.dealextreme.com/forms/Replacement_Defective.aspx
> 
> go to this page if you want to return the faulty led for a replacement



Well, I really like dealextreame, and I haven't had any problems with previous orders.
And actually, did I try to stop the order even before it was sent because it was way too delayed before it was sent.
No answer and action was made. When I finally received the order, parts were defective. So I filled out that form but no answer or action yet. And no, ofcourse I wasn't rude. But can you understand my disappointment?
I'm guessing your an employee at dealextreme?


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## JacobJones (Sep 22, 2011)

Ah you did fill out that form, you'll probably recieve an email from them soon, as you found out dealextreme are extremely slow to do anything. I do not work for deal extreme but I also have purchased from them several times and always recieved items (weeks after I ordered them) and found their customer service helpful, hence my suprise that you have had such a bad experience with them. Hope they replace the faulty led for you and refund the return shipping fee


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## HB021 (Sep 22, 2011)

Yea, hopefully they'll do that. It's just hard to be patient when you paid the extra dollars for EMS shipping :S
Just a quick little reply like "we've recieved your form about defective items, and we will get back to you as soon as possible" would mean a lot.

The whole reason for chosing EMS shipping was also because I had a week off, which I planned to complete this project, and therefor placing my order two weeks before. 2-7 business days should have taken no more than two weeks. It's okay on free shiping but not on paid.


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## HB021 (Sep 22, 2011)

I've ordered the buck driver The_bad_frag suggested. However the flashlight already had some kind of converter because I've measured the output to 12.8v and 19.9v input but the fan won't start with it and 3x XML's won't start with it and I don't know why, guess I've got to hold out for the buck converter.

I noticed a problem with the reflectors i bought: the base of the XML is 16mm and the base of the reflector is 15mm and sits right onto the connections which will make a short circuit if not isolated and the height of the soldering and wires prevents the dome of the LED to enter inside the reflector.

Any indeas what to do next? I'm think of attaching them to heatsink(with fan underneath) close together forming a square with round corners. Then extend the hole in the base of the old reflector.

Is putting them this close together a overheating risk, eventhough they're mounted directly on a fan cooled heatsink?

Reflector = 77mm
LED base 16mm
heatsink = 55mm
LEDs forming a square: about 36mm with round corners

Heres a picture illustrating what I'm talking about. Don't mind the wiring, I will make it a serial connection when I'm ready.


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## Mordac (Sep 22, 2011)

I have this same flashlight and have been wanting to mod it for a while now and I think your thread may just push me over the edge. I have a question though, I noticed you disassembled your flashlight and was wondering how you got the head off. From diagrams it looks like it just presses on, but I don't want to just start pulling on it and have it come apart for good.


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## HB021 (Sep 22, 2011)

Mordac said:


> I have this same flashlight and have been wanting to mod it for a while now and I think your thread may just push me over the edge. I have a question though, I noticed you disassembled your flashlight and was wondering how you got the head off. From diagrams it looks like it just presses on, but I don't want to just start pulling on it and have it come apart for good.



Yes it was just pressed on but be careful not to break it when pulling it out and follow the grooves.
I had the same "problem" as you at first so I figured wth I don't have time to wait and I don't want a stock weak light laying around.


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## The_bad_Frag (Sep 23, 2011)

HB021 said:


> I've ordered the buck driver The_bad_frag suggested. However the flashlight already had some kind of converter because I've measured the output to 12.8v and 19.9v input but the fan won't start with it and 3x XML's won't start with it and I don't know why, guess I've got to hold out for the buck converter.
> 
> Is putting them this close together a overheating risk, eventhough they're mounted directly on a fan cooled heatsink?



Can you upload a picture of the electronics which were inside the lamp? Normaly you should take them out and just use the connectors to the battery and the switch.

If the fan can is capable of getting 30 watts of heat away theres no problem. Do you have a concept for cooling of the driver? I didnt see any driver heatsink yet.

btw... You must use a lot less solder


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## HB021 (Sep 23, 2011)

Hehe well I'm a newbie! It's my first time soldering electronics, I have done some soldering for PA speakers but I guess my talents on the small stuff are very bad . 

Well I didn't really think of a heatsink for the driver, I don't even think it will fit into the head of lamp. The old electronics is shown in previopicture (#26) not very clear though. But my plan was to bypass and remove it, is there any reason to keep it? The fan says 12v 0,13A and I've got some small heatsinks for memory. I've also got another 12v fan if it really is a must for active cooling on it?

Btw it's 40watts of heat if i go with all 4.


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## The_bad_Frag (Sep 23, 2011)

Yeah I already saw the picture but you cant really see any electronics on it.  But I dont think theres any reason to keep it.

For the fan you need some resistor. Maybe it works with the higher voltage but I dont know how long. A memory heatsink with the driver on it in the airflow of the fan could work fine.

And yeah you need active cooling if you dont wanna use a huge heatsink like this -> http://akiba.kakaku.com/data/imgs/akiba20080218034.jpg 


...somehow I didnt read the thread for a long time... I read you wanna use the driver I suggested. Do you wanna have modes with that driver? The driver itself has no modes. It needs an external dimmer to get modes.


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## HB021 (Sep 23, 2011)

Hehe nice heatsink  yea I was thinking of using a resistor but how about using a parallel connection between 3 out of 4 LEDs ~12,1v? I've already tried so I know it runs but does it last? I'll try to make the driver fit underneath the fan then.
Thanks for help btw!


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## The_bad_Frag (Sep 23, 2011)

I dont know if I understood that right... Do you wanna connect the fan with the leds?  Thats a baaaaaaaad idea!


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## HB021 (Sep 23, 2011)

I was going to but I guess that's a bad idea ? But it only steals 0,13A ill it affect anything?


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## The_bad_Frag (Sep 23, 2011)

I dont think that the driver even works or it will be destroyed with a brushless motor connected to it.  Thats a completely different kind of electrical load.

I mean i never tested it because I never had such a crazy idea  so I cant say exactly what will happen. The only thing I know that it will not work.

If you use ordinary stupid light blubs it might work but a little risistor or a constant voltage source would be a much much better solution.


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## HB021 (Sep 23, 2011)

Ok I see what you mean. Thanks for your help again!


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## Mordac (Sep 24, 2011)

I took some pictures and overlaid the circuit, you can see them here. Q1 is a c9015, q2 a b773, and u1 is a tl431. Supposedly it's a 12v regulator but I can't get it to do anything. Vin = Vout - ~200mV. I'm going to do some more tests later, I only had a janky multimeter with a half dead battery to work with. 

I'm going to put a uC in the handle and mod the switch to be momentary. That way I can get brightness control and maybe temperature monitoring and battery level indication. Now I just need to figure out how to get more wires through the hinges to the head.


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## HB021 (Sep 24, 2011)

Nice work there, mines ~12.9v output and it won't start 3x XMLs nor will it start my 12v fans.
So are you going to use the circuit board? How did you plan to make the temperature control?
And what kind of momentary switch are you planning to use, cause I need one my self.
Please keep up the good work!


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## The_bad_Frag (Sep 24, 2011)

What do you wanna do with a momentary switch?


You can take a look at the thread about my triple XM-L Mag Im currently building. It has a very nice temprature control. -> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...itor-overheating-protection-0-100-dimming-usb


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## Mordac (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm just going to junk the board. It's a really inefficient linear regulator and mine seems broken anyway. 

If I can I'm going to run more wires from the body to the head for a DS18B20 digital temperature sensor. 

For the button I'm going to keep the original button and mod it for momentary. It's just like some of the mag guys are doing. Open the switch, cut off the little arms, and bingo it's momentary. Just a word of caution, the switch is incredibly hard to open. I broke two of the holding tabs trying to get mine open =\. Thankfully glue fixes all. 

As for why a momentary is needed it's either that or add a second button for brightness control. I'd rather not make a possible weak point for dirt or water to get in, so I'd like to make no external holes.

Edit: I'm also already subscribed to your thread The_bad_Frag


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## HB021 (Sep 24, 2011)

The_bad_Frag said:


> What do you wanna do with a momentary switch?
> 
> 
> You can take a look at the thread about my triple XM-L Mag Im currently building. It has a very nice temprature control. -> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...itor-overheating-protection-0-100-dimming-usb


 
The guy from ledtreiber.de told me I'll need a momentary switch to be able to dim the light and using u-dim. I've looked at your post and I saw you're using a potentiometer, maybe that's better? But if modding the original button is as easy Mordac says then I'd rather use that.


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## The_bad_Frag (Sep 25, 2011)

HB021 said:


> The guy from ledtreiber.de told me I'll need a momentary switch to be able to dim the light and using u-dim. I've looked at your post and I saw you're using a potentiometer, maybe that's better? But if modding the original button is as easy Mordac says then I'd rather use that.



Ah ok.  I think I read over it that you are using μ-Dim. Now I understand it. 

But you need another normal switch to cut the power to the μ-Dim and the driver or you need to take the battery out every time you dont use the light anymore. The μ-Dim and driver will empty the battery out within a few days when constantly connected to it.

I didnt used the potentiometer in my flashlight because it was too hard to make it fit like I wanted it. I made the 2 button setup instead.


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## HB021 (Sep 25, 2011)

Damn I didn't know they were constantly draining energy. And this is even when dimmed to 0%? if so how much is really drained? Is there any "superbuttons" with both click and momentary function, cause I'd rather not have two buttons on the handle? ;-)


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## The_bad_Frag (Sep 25, 2011)

I measured my driver at around 10mA at 12,3V. This makes 0,12W, 2,95Wh/day and 19 days until your battery is completely drained.

Maybe some switchaholic can help you with that problem or you simply use more that 1.


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## HB021 (Sep 25, 2011)

Ok thanks again for your useful flashaholic information!  
I've got 3 batteries with 30min recharging time so I'll probably go with no on/off then....


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## HB021 (Sep 29, 2011)

Update:
Awaiting the replacement XML U2, the u-dim and the adhesive thermal paste.


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## seanwilliams78 (Sep 30, 2011)

I'm definitely keeping an eye on your progress!

I've got one of these...







...that I would like to get some useable light out of. Don't need to go extreme or expensive; just looking for more than the ~1 lumen it puts out in stock form! =P


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## HB021 (Oct 1, 2011)

Hehe you're welcome to post your progress here, what are yourplans to reach beyond 1 lumen then? ;-)


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## HB021 (Oct 3, 2011)

Update: 
I've received the u-dim now, very fast shipping I'd recommend ledtreiber.de eventhough I don't understand much German . Still waiting for the last Cree XML U2 and the adhesive thermal paste. I hate waiting....


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## HB021 (Oct 26, 2011)

Update:
I have finally received the replacement unit for the defective XML.
Also the thermal paste is here. I've began to construct the reflector from my drawings. Good thing I work in the industry,I can use the machines at work . But everything is being delayed now because of my studies and we're moving to a 
new apartment...


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## HB021 (Nov 3, 2011)

Update:

With a little help from the guys at work:




Glueing the leds with the thermal adhesive paste:




Now I need to figure out how to attach everything 
Hopefully my 4000lumen is not far away. XM-L U2 (It's claimed to be 1200lm each @ 3A)
I've tried the dimmer and it works great! 0,25,50,100%


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## The_bad_Frag (Nov 3, 2011)

Looks nice. 


...what is "sidovy"?


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## HB021 (Nov 3, 2011)

The_bad_Frag said:


> Looks nice.
> 
> 
> ...what is "sidovy"?



Hehe thanks, sidovy = sideview.
It's from the CAD drawing I gave the guy who helped me crafting the reflector.


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## HB021 (Nov 4, 2011)

All of the sudden the dimmer stopped working, while trying to find any problems or short circuits I actually made one and I litterary burned the driver, one touch and it was in flames! I'm such a newbie...
:-(


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## The_bad_Frag (Nov 4, 2011)

Thats crap.  What did you do?


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## HB021 (Nov 4, 2011)

The_bad_Frag said:


> Thats crap.  What did you do?


Well the dimmer wasn't my fault it stopped working. But when I burned the mikro; I was stupid enough to walk around with contacts hanging loose. I wanted to take it outside for a beamshot. The switch touched the (+) on the mikro and instantly started burning. Clumsy idiot


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## HB021 (Nov 5, 2011)

I've ordered a new mikro 2800 now 

Oh btw, to anyone who want to build a similar project: don't use a GPU cooler, use a CPU cooler. Mine gets really warm after only one minute so running 3A for an hour is out of the question... Good thing I have the dimmer on the LEDs but fan is on full effect all the time and is connected directly to the battery.


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## The_bad_Frag (Nov 5, 2011)

How much is "really warm"?  You can easily run it with heatsink temps at around 65°C. Thats really really warm to the touch. You dont have a lot of heatsink mass so you will reach running temprature very fast. Adding more mass will not keep it cooler it only extends the time before it overheats. But normaly a CPU cooler is made for tdp of 95-300W so it wont be a problem.


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## HB021 (Nov 5, 2011)

Ok then I have to wait for my new mikro2800 to arrive before I can measure the exact temperature but it was "burning my fingers" hot! ;-)


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## HB021 (Nov 10, 2011)

While waiting for the new driver some other flashaholic stuff turned up, this is just a partial shipment of the 520$ order... Now I'm truly addicted!


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## HB021 (Nov 16, 2011)

The new driver arrived and is working fine! 

Now I have a little problem; the contact plate from the to head only allows me to connect the LEDs and not the fan unless I connect it parallel to the LEDs. 

I don't thing I pull wires inside and just remove the contact plates since it seems it's them holding the flashlight together...... 

Only other option that I can see is to draw a cable outside the joint(yes it as different angels) between the head and body. 

I need some advise here... Please










http://www.makita.com/en-us/Assets/...eName=Products/_PartsBreakdowns/PB_BML185.pdf


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## HB021 (Nov 16, 2011)

Yaay!! I've finally succeeded to put everything together and it's working fine!! Beamshots will come up as fast as possible. Did a little ceiling bounce back test and compared it to a single Cree XML T6 @ 1,5A... It had 13 times greater lux! =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJhs53PrCFo


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## The_bad_Frag (Nov 16, 2011)

We want to see the INSIDE.


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## HB021 (Nov 16, 2011)

Hehe too late I might pick it a part later but my newbie connections would just make you laugh instead of looking at the output.... 
;-)

Here's some beamshot from 16.30 today just after the sun went down,
using an iPhone cam is really bad because it makes everything darker than it seems, but it's only camera I've got. Actually all trees were lit up by all three lights but only the high beam(8400 lumen rated has an insane throw):

Cree XM-L T6 @ 1,5A (600 lumen manufacturer rated):





4x Cree XM-L U2 @ 3A (4000 lumen manufacturer rated):





200w HID high+low beam (16800 lumen manufacturer rated):


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## HB021 (Nov 16, 2011)

Using iPhone camera again(normalizes the light)
This is the original output:





This is the new output:





With a very old digital camera:

Low beams on car(100w HID 8400lumens, 4300K):






Makita BML185 mod(4000lumens):





Single Cree XM-L T6 (600lumen):


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## The_bad_Frag (Nov 16, 2011)

Ok.  I just would like to see how you did the ventilation system and how you placed the driver an so on... I have 14.4V Makita batteries from my drill so maybe I build the same. 

...btw get a camera...   ...an apple is something to eat an not for drawing pictures...  

I dont think your 200W of hid is street legal...:thinking:


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## HB021 (Nov 16, 2011)

Ok I will pick it apart tomorrow and post some pictures. But the ventilation system is only keeping it cool @ low mode for a short period of time. I'm going to measure tomorrow on high mode. At the moment I only have hidden ventilation holes but I think I to open up a few more holes to get some more air circulating in there.


Regarding the headlights on my car;
I'm actually going to put 4 lights with 4 XML T6 in each which gives me a total of 32000 lumen  now that's legal... I asked the producer for T5 version but he said they didn't make them :-( I really liked the color of your triple T5, the_bad_frag.


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## The_bad_Frag (Nov 16, 2011)

You dont need to take it appart if you dont want.^^ I mean I would never take my Mag appart because it took 2 houres and a lot of luck to put it together.:sweat:I mean not the whole build but only putting the assembled heatsink and electronics in the Mag tube.

If your cooling can only keep the light cool at low you maybe need to redesign the airflow...:thinking:


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## HB021 (Nov 16, 2011)

Hehe exactly, then imagine how long it took me, took me all day actually ;-). 
So when I was close to finnish it I was so excited about beamshots that I totally forgot about the other stuff. But I need to take it apart anyway to open up some more air venting holes.


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## HB021 (Nov 17, 2011)

Edited first post with some nice numbers and some crappy pictures.

My favorite toy used to be my cordless 18v drill, now it's been replaced by a flashlight... hehe my girlfriend thinks I'm nuts!





Here's a photo from inside the house, it's really brighter than daylight 





Here is from inside the flashlight:




The insufficient venting holes


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## HB021 (Nov 17, 2011)

I opened up a few more hidden holes, if that's not enough I'll have open up on side etc... But that looks crap so I'll start with this:




Temperature test @ 3A:
00:00 - 27C
05:00 - 64C
08:00 - 72C
10:00 - 80C

Temperature test @ 1,5A:
00:00 - 27C
05:00 - 42C
08:00 - 51C
10:00 - 52C
12:00 - 56C
15:00 - 58C
18:00 - 60C
20:00 - 61C
23:00 - 63C
25:00 - 65C
30:00 - 65C
33:00 - 70C
35:00 - 71C
38:00 - 55C
40:00 - 50C
Aborted for batterycheck, if anyone good at math would like to estimate how long it would take before it reaches 80C, feel free to do it ;-)

Temperature test @ 0,75A:
00:00 - 27C
10:00 - 37C
20:00 - 40C
30:00 - 41C
40:00 - 40C
50:00 - 41C 
60:00 - 41C

So it seems my fan cooled heatsink can only handle 12w total effect in steady state 41C. But 1300lumen and 4,5h running time is not bad at all, but it was intended to outperform my old working light @ 2000 lumen.
Anyway it's a good show off light!


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## The_bad_Frag (Nov 17, 2011)

Nice. 

You didnt heatsinked the driver at all?  I dont think it will survive that very long. Even on low or mid it can easiely reach 120-140°C after a few minutes.

Now I see why your active cooling is not working. The hot air has no way out. The fan sucks in the same hot air again and again. You have to make holes in the side at point where the fan is blowing out the hot air. Then you have to make a round sheet metal that seperates the cool from the hot side. I made you a shitty drawing about that. If you could give me all the measurements I need I can make u a CAD model.





With the cooling concept from the drawing there should be no heat problem. The holes you need to make for the cables to go though the disk need to be nearly airtight. Also where the disk is comming in contact with the body should get no air around. Then the fan can work really really efficient. The airflow can also cool the driver.


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## HB021 (Nov 17, 2011)

Thanks for your reply! Nice drawing, I'll have to remake everything then hehe. I think the biggest issue with making your drawing reality is the depth of the head, it's very wide(~80mm) but very shallow(~30mm). Anyway the driver didn't really get warm at all to the touch when trying the things before mounting it. It as actually mounted on all small blue heatsink intended for memory. But I like the concept and I'll try to remake it like that, cause if it would let me run an hour on full I'd be very satisfied with it and it would truly replace my old low energy worklight!

- Internal max diameter: 74mm
- Internal min diameter: ca 55mm
- Internal depth: ca 30mm


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## The_bad_Frag (Nov 17, 2011)

If the driver didnt get warm at all you dont need to put it in the head. Maybe it works very efficient in your setup.

I also would need the measurements of the heatsink with mounted fan. A simple drawing from the side would be good.


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## HB021 (Nov 17, 2011)

The_bad_Frag said:


> If the driver didnt get warm at all you dont need to put it in the head. Maybe it works very efficient in your setup.
> 
> I also would need the measurements of the heatsink with mounted fan. A simple drawing from the side would be good.


Ok I'll get back to you with it tomorrow thanks a lot!


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## HB021 (Nov 18, 2011)

Ok those measurements you've got was old and taken from notebook. I've done some serious modification it seems hehe, and I'm lucky today the old 30mm bottom was limited by both a screw pin from underneath and two indentations(where the makita logo is) now this happens to be the same depth as reflector and cooler together:







Depth of head(housing): 39mm
Depth of cooler+heatsink: 14mm
Space between frontplate & heatsink: 14mm
Frontplate thickness: 2mm 
Diameter in line with fan: ~70mm (this is where you wanted the separating plate?)
Fan/heatsink diameter: 56mm

Edit:
Heres your simple drawing :





Have I forgotten anything?


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## HB021 (Nov 21, 2011)

Estimated brightness:
Max power: 4000+ lumen @ 3A
Med power: 2600 lumen @ 1,5A
Min power: 1300 lumen @ 0,75A

Estimated running time:
Max power: 1h 20min
Med power: 2h 25min
Min power: 4h 30min

Here's a comparison of the different modes. Please note that the flickering/rendering in the pictures is from the PWM dimming and is only visible in camera. As always it's actually brighter than the (iphone)camera shows;
Distance about 10m;

Maximum:





Medium:





Minimum:





By the way heat isn't really a problem this time of year; took some beamshots in very light rain today and I was happy that hadn't drilled the holes all around yet 

Distance about 70m
High mode on flashlight(+ my fat finger....):





Low beam on car:





High+low beam on car:


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## HB021 (Nov 23, 2011)

I made a plate that were supposed to fit but it seems I was way of with my measurements(1mm), it didn't sit as deep as it was supposed to, doh!
I'll have to redo it...


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## The_bad_Frag (Nov 23, 2011)

Sorry. :sweat:The last days were really crappy and so much work that I couldnt do anything. Also the hdd of a friends cad pc broke and he couldnt work anymore. He has a 1 man company so I lent him my cad pc that he can keep on working. Now I have it back. I saw you already did the air shield correct (or nearly). Do you still need an cad model of it? Then I would do it right now.:wave:


Do you have a lathe? Then you could span the ring from the inside and make it a bit smaller with sandpaper.


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## HB021 (Nov 23, 2011)

The_bad_Frag said:


> Sorry. :sweat:The last days were really crappy and so much work that I couldnt do anything. Also the hdd of a friends cad pc broke and he couldnt work anymore. He has a 1 man company so I lent him my cad pc that he can keep on working. Now I have it back. I saw you already did the air shield correct (or nearly). Do you still need an cad model of it? Then I would do it right now.:wave:
> 
> Do you have a lathe? Then you could span the ring from the inside and make it a bit smaller with sandpaper.



No I don't have one but thankfully I work in the metal industry so one is not far away, so if I ask nicely maybe I'll get to borrow it again, doh 
I think I get your point from the other drawing, don't want to waste your time. But thanks anyway it's a brilliant idea!


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## HB021 (Dec 4, 2011)

Project to remake the cooling system is on ice for a while due to studies, and renovating new appartment...


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## onvol (Feb 20, 2012)

What was your total material list, estimated prices, and sources? I have the fusion led conversion for my dewalt but I feel its inferior especially to your light!


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## HB021 (Feb 21, 2012)

onvol said:


> What was your total material list, estimated prices, and sources? I have the fusion led conversion for my dewalt but I feel its inferior especially to your light!



The total sum was about 150$

The light was from eBay: ~25$+ shipping

The reflectors was from dealextreme and was very cheap also the custom made plate holding the reflectors together was free from my work.

The XM-L U2 LEDs was from Dealextreme and cost about 11$ each + shipping

The dimmer and the driver was from ledtreiber.de and cost about 50$ + shipping.

The fan and heatsink was from local computer store and cost about 15$

Yes, this light is superior to all my other lights in terms of power but it can't run cool on high mode(4000lumen) in normal room temperature, but runs fine on low mode. And the low mode is about 1300lumen which is a lot of light still!

I was going to rebuild the cooling system to be able to run it on high mode for longer periods but just I just haven't had the time or energy for it yet...

I hope this helped you.


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