# "Best" 123 rechargeable cell and Charger? Dangers/pitfalls?



## DualMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

Hi all: as a newbie to the world of 123 cells, i thought that i'd seek advice here. 

very interested in the level of refinement that HDS is making - it's just plain care and thought and smarts that goes into something that's so well thought out. kudos! so even though i really vowed to stick with strictly AA flashlights UNLESS something extraordinarily compelling comes along, that sort of "forces" me go go 123... well, er, the HDS clicky might be the one. 

i want to order a Clicky but i think it's not coming out for a while, maybe another month?

as far as i can tell, the clicky is rather advanced. i do have to break down and "break" my personal rule of not bothering with batteries other than AA's UNLESS it must be so. i think i should break my rule for this HDS Clicky. it is sufficiently different and slick, compared with others, that it may well be worthwhile to have to stock yet another battery type in the house. Ugh.

that said, do you guys prefer 123 rechargeables? or just lithium non rechargeables? the rechargeables are only 900mAh, while the regular non rechargeables are around 1300 mAh. there's much talk about how the rechargeables have some risks with them, explosions and what not. i did read much of the "123 shoot out" thread with great interest, but it seems like the non rechargeables are good to have around, as a "Plan B", but for everyday, when one CAN deal with it, it would seem like a more "guilt free" playing if one were to have rechargeable 123's. hence this segue...

there are surprisingly few 123 chargers out there: 

- found one at battery station for ~$15 (generic no brand) , and their rechargeables around $7 or so. 

- found TWO models at Thomas Distributing: one Delkin for $20 w/one 123 included, and one $27 Tysonic (never heard of this brand). 

- an Ultrafire wf-139 at battery junction for $17 (need to use the spacers to charge 123's, strangely unwieldy to use round steel marbles). 

- then there's the Tenergy charger with 4 Tenergy 123's for $33. Found scathing reviews (true or untrue) from the link below for Tenergy. I thought that they are a very large battery manufacturer so i thought that they were up and up and legit. who knows if these "reviews" are true or not true but they do give me pause and want to reconsider other brands as there are other options:
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/All_Battery

=================================

Many comments warn against using this battery with that charger and don't do this and don't do that. i am confused as to what one can and what one cannot do. furthermore, i cannot easily differentiate which charger is "best" and has the most "smart circuitry" so the batteries are charged in the fashion most kind to them and does the best job. it's just very unclear. I do know that one should almost always try to steer clear of the "unprotected" kinds, so that's fine. But, within the Protected types, there are still quite a variety.

I do seem to recall that there is this talk about 2 stages versus 3 stages vis-a-vis Chargers. It seems like the 2 stage chargers are good enough, yet, the 3 stage charges are kinder to deeply exhausted rechargeable 123 lithiums, as it starts out charging slowly, and then sort of ramps up to a faster charge.

may i ask if there are comments/suggestions from the good folks here? thx! i know i'll need this for the Clicky. on the other hand, i can buy a bunch of the 123 lithium non rechargeables and just try to enjoy them...but knowning that they deplete fast, i'll feel guilty, even though i'm not a heavy user and each battery is likely going to last me a long while.

thx in advance.

anyone else knows about which 123 rechargeables are "best" and which charger is best? thx! besides the fact that most 123 rechargeables are in the range of 900mAh (some are even lower, like around 600 or 700 mAh), it is hard for me to tell the qualitative differences in how well made they are and how well thought out they are.


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## naked2 (Sep 27, 2008)

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=180449 :duh2:


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## Black Rose (Sep 27, 2008)

I think the best 123 charger mentioned here is the Pila IBC, but it's around $50.

AWs cells are recommended a lot because they are safe and high quality, but may not have the highest capacity.

Here is a link to a review of some RCR123 cells.


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## bullfrog (Sep 27, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> I think the best 123 charger mentioned here is the Pila IBC, but it's around $50.
> 
> AWs cells are recommended a lot because they are safe and high quality, but may not have the highest capacity.
> 
> Here is a link to a review of some RCR123 cells.



Pila IBC charger is at a great price for *$37* here:

http://www.flashlightz.com/product.php/pila/bc01-ac01/?product=171829&category=1225#tabStart

Enjoy!


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## naked2 (Sep 27, 2008)

bullfrog said:


> Pila IBC charger is at a great price for *$37* here:
> 
> http://www.flashlightz.com/product.php/pila/bc01-ac01/?product=171829&category=1225#tabStart
> 
> Enjoy!


But only for three more days!


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## DualMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

thx for the info. i'm confused. does this Pila charge 123 cells? it looked like it would take a hobbyist to find "spacers" in order to make it work for 123 cells.

even the retailer didn't specify whether or not it would charge 123 cells without other "accessories".

btw, where does it say that the price is only good for 3 more days? i might have missed something but it didn't seem to indicate that.

thx.

PS: how does this differ from the Ultrafire charger? http://www.batteryjunction.com/wf-139-.html

pros/cons please? thx!


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## cl0123 (Sep 27, 2008)

DualMonitors,

Pila IBC will charge RCR123s. I bought the 15mm spacers with the AW protected RCR123s from AW. I think it's $3.50 a pair, but you can always PM him. Those spacers are also available from Lighthound and Batterjunction, I think. 

_Great username/handle, btw. Hard to go back to one monitor now._

With Aloha, 

Clarence


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## Oddjob (Sep 28, 2008)

I have to echo what has already been said here. Get some cells and spacers from AW and get a Pila IBC charger. What's good about the IBC charger is that you can just put the cells in and not worry about taking them out at a certain time. The charger will terminate charging at the proper voltage. 
I think the third component along with good cells and a good charger is a digital multimetre. It is useful for determining how much juice is left in a lithium ion cell. I think it goes something like this: 4.2v-100%, 4.1v-90%, 4.0v-80%, 3.9v-60%, 3.8v-40%. (Lithium primaries do not work this way. A primary cell can be half depleted but still have near its original voltage) Knowing the voltages of cells helps you match cells for multi-cell use regardless of battery type. 
This may all seem expensive at first but if you use your lights alot (as most flashaholics do by just playing with them) it can save you money and be safer in the long run.


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## DualMonitors (Sep 28, 2008)

as a total newbie, i very much appreciate all the feedback/comments! very educational!

may i ask why there appears to be no chargers for 123's akin to the Maha C9000 (for AA's)? The Maha and the La Crosse 900 appears to give so much information via their respective displays that it would be very helpful for those of us who are interested.

somehow, it appears as though the charger manufacturers decided to simplfy the 123 chargers, which is counterintuitive as the users for 123 cells would likely be MORE of a hobby-ist type than a AA type of user.

:shrug:


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## SilverFox (Sep 28, 2008)

Hello DualMonitors,

If you are looking for full features... check out the Schulze line of chargers.

Tom


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## DualMonitors (Sep 28, 2008)

Considering that there are dangers of explosions, would buying/using the Pila basically ensure that there would be no explosions?

i like flashlights, and i like the idea of lithiums for their higher current output and longer run times, but seriously, the idea that my hobby can create a serious danger in my home is just not for me. i'm not talking about what others should or should not do - just only talking about what i'm willing to do vis-a-vis this hobby of mine.

would appreciate further education/advice from y'all regarding which charger is "smart" and would minimize the risks of charging the a minimum. also, which specific battery/brand/mAh would be most "safe".

thx again and sorry for being so very detail oriented.


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## bullfrog (Sep 28, 2008)

DualMonitors said:


> Considering that there are dangers of explosions, would buying/using the Pila basically ensure that there would be no explosions?
> 
> i like flashlights, and i like the idea of lithiums for their higher current output and longer run times, but seriously, the idea that my hobby can create a serious danger in my home is just not for me. i'm not talking about what others should or should not do - just only talking about what i'm willing to do vis-a-vis this hobby of mine.
> 
> ...



+1 excellent post and my concerns exactly.

Considering using lifep04s across the board for their "safe" chemistry but want to first know how much less runtime to expect in an M60 as compared to lion rcr123s... Anyone?


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## DualMonitors (Sep 28, 2008)

from much reading and putting the various pieces of the puzzle together, it appears as though the Pila charger might be "the best" 123 charger out there, in that it is "smart" and has the most protective circuitry out there - which the singular exception of the uber costly Schulze (sp?) german chargers mentioned above by Silver.

Assuming that we find a "best" 123 charger, then the task goes to finding the "best" and "safest" 123 rechargeables:

i ask that because it appears (though i have little proof or evidence) that the Battery Station's own label products are reasonably well made. i would not want their charger, however, as their charger has no brand, and they write little about it on their own site, and i could not find an instruction manual via their site, so for now, my default "best 123 charger" is the Pila for around $37.

their batteries (battery station), however, appear to be rather smartly sourced and they appear to buy only from the "best" sources.

may i ask how come the batteryjunctionz.com folks don't sell spacers with their Pila chargers?? isn't that sort of obvious that they should sell spacers? i'm rather confused by them trying to sell a product, but does not even carry a really needed accessory. they actually should include such an accessory as an included "part"!

the battery station's CR123A is 900mAh and 3.6V. 
AW's are either 750mAh or 500 mAh. 

i don't quite know how to compare between the battery station's "safety" with that of AW's.

may i ask if anyone mind opining and further educating me?

thx!


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## Marduke (Sep 28, 2008)

There are no 900mAh RCR123 cells. That's fairly typical over rating by off-brands.


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## DualMonitors (Sep 28, 2008)

Marduke said:


> There are no 900mAh RCR123 cells. That's fairly typical over rating by off-brands.



Thanks marduke for your very knowledgeable advice! i'm somewhat skeptical but, if i were to only buy 2 or 3 123 rechargeables from AW, the shipping cost may be not worthwhile, so i thought about looking around for "the best" 123 rechargeables out there. i find it very hard to judge which is better, though it appears as though the battery station's battery products are well sourced.

btw, which rechargeable 123's do you like the MOST, please? thx in advance!

battery station writes: "Rechargeable CR123A​ Rechargeable Li-Ion 3.6V 900mAh CR123A battery with short-circuit and low voltage protection circuit board.
*RCR-123A battery* $9.00 *  Add to Cart*​ These may not be compatible with other chargers or other RCR123A batteries. 

NOTE: These top off at 4.2V so watch the voltage and the device you are using them in.  We do NOT recommend them for use in incandescent lights or multi-cell applications. *MORE instructions below"*




*Does anyone else have their favorite rechargeable 123's in lieu of AW's 750mAh? thx!
*​


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## Marduke (Sep 28, 2008)

AW's are generally considered the "best". Their capacity rating is accurate, and other brands which rate higher really aren't.

You can get cells, charger, everything from 4sevens.com
https://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=53_57


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## DualMonitors (Sep 28, 2008)

Marduke said:


> AW's are generally considered the "best". Their capacity rating is accurate, and other brands which rate higher really aren't.
> 
> You can get cells, charger, everything from 4sevens.com
> https://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=53_57



Thx Marduke. the remaining issue would be: i would buy, say 2 or 3 of the 750mAh lithium 123's from 4sevens.com, and then would still have to order the Pila charger from flashlightz.com, right? even then, the Pila doesn't come with the necessary size adjustment thingies, very annoying, so i will have to find those and place yet a third order?? strange that the Pila wouldn't come with the proper spacing thingie.

sigh.


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## naked2 (Sep 29, 2008)

DualMonitors said:


> btw, where does it say that the price is only good for 3 more days? i might have missed something but it didn't seem to indicate that.
> 
> thx.


If you look at the top of the page that the link takes you to it says "15% off Pila flashlights and accessories thru September; Listed prices reflect 15% discount"

P.S. Here's the link again: http://www.flashlightz.com/product.p...=1225#tabStart


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## DualMonitors (Sep 29, 2008)

naked2 said:


> If you look at the top of the page that the link takes you to it says "15% off Pila flashlights and accessories thru September; Listed prices reflect 15% discount"



Ah! gotcha. thx for the reminder!

so it will be around $5 more expensive if i were to order it on 10/1st, right?

again, where would the good folks here order the spacers needed for the Pila charger in order to charge 123 cells? what site please? thx!


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## Bruce B (Sep 29, 2008)

What are the best rechargeable 123's to power Surefire lights. Ie: the E2DL and E1B?

-Bruce


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## naked2 (Sep 29, 2008)

DualMonitors said:


> Ah! gotcha. thx for the reminder!
> 
> so it will be around $5 more expensive if i were to order it on 10/1st, right?
> 
> again, where would the good folks here order the spacers needed for the Pila charger in order to charge 123 cells? what site please? thx!


You can buy the AW cells and spacers for the best price directly from AW right here in this thread: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=180449

On Oct 1st the Pila charger will be about $6.50 more.


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## EngrPaul (Sep 29, 2008)

I just got my PILA IBC charger from Flashlightz today. It works great! It took a week. 

I think they are slow about fulfilling orders and giving shipment notices. No biggie.

Don't be fooled into thinking you get a car DC adapter, just because it's in the promotional picture on the order page. I did :yikes:


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## Lite_me (Oct 20, 2008)

DualMonitors said:


> thx for the info. i'm confused. does this Pila charge 123 cells? it looked like it would take a hobbyist to *find "spacers"* in order to make it work for 123 cells.





cl0123 said:


> DualMonitors,
> 
> Pila IBC will charge RCR123s. *I bought the 15mm spacers* with the AW protected RCR123s from AW. I think it's $3.50 a pair, but you can always PM him. Those spacers are also available from Lighthound and Batterjunction, I think.





Oddjob said:


> *Get some cells and spacers from AW* and get a Pila IBC charger.





DualMonitors said:


> again, *where would the good folks here order the spacers* needed for the Pila charger in order to charge 123 cells? what site please? thx!



I see several questions about purchasing spacers for charging 123 batteries in the Pila IBC. Has anyone ever mentioned you can use the included spacers together for that purpose? 

What can be done is removing, or simply not installing one of the included spacers and setting it in the side with a spacer screwed in. It's the perfect size. It may not be the perfect solution depending on your battery collection and charging habits, but it'll work without having to find, make or wait on ordering one.


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## GarageBoy (Oct 21, 2008)

Where/who is making the AW cells?


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## furtherbum (Oct 29, 2009)

Seeing as how the most recent post in this thread is almost a year old, I thought I would ask the question again.

I just purchased a Fenix PD30+ as for first real flashlight. It's purchased, so I suppose I'm not real interested in the politics/pros&cons of the Fenix.

I am, however, interested in getting some safe rechargeable batteries for the light (probably 2 sets, so four batteries) and then an appropriate charger for those batteries.

Looking above, the charger sounds a bit finicky. I'm sure that there have been some developments, or new and improved (and cheaper?) charges to come out since then. So, any help regarding:

1) which RCR123 batteries to buy
2) which charger to buy to accompany those batteries

would be most appreciated. TIA.


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## Marduke (Oct 29, 2009)

AW batteries and a Pila charger is "best"


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## bullfrog (Oct 29, 2009)

Marduke said:


> AW batteries and a Pila charger is "best"



Yup - I think everyone will agree with this.

:welcome:


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## furtherbum (Oct 30, 2009)

So the advice is the same.

Last total newb question(s) (be easy! yes, i've searched) -- I don't know the mm of the AW 16340 batteries, but am reading that "For instance, a RCR123 needs the Pila spacer plus a nut and bolt of approximately 34mm." (from Pila IBC Charger compendium, here).

1) I don't know where or what the spacer is... does that come with the charger? What about the nut and bolt? Sounds kind of finicky...

2) I need the spacer even if I'm charging the max amount of 16340 batteries? 3) What is the max number of RCR123 batteries that the IBC can charge at one time?

4) If I'd rather get a dummy, is an "AW Dummy CR123A" the one I need?

Thanks. Clearly, my first foray into the somewhat technical world of li-ion rechargeable batteries, high performance flashlights, etc. :wave: The goal is to get set with this first light, and then have fun exploring!


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## shark_za (Oct 30, 2009)

My 2c (14.8 South African cents) worth. 

I am very happy with the Solarforce 16340's I have, I cant measure capacity but they are listed as 880mAh.
1. They are protected and it works.
2. They are the same size as a CR123 , fit in any torch. Some RCR123's are long due to protection being added.
3. Capacity seems fine, not drastically off the other brands.
4. Charger does its job, helped by the protection I assume.

For the cost and availability, I am very happy. 
Quality product. 

18650 too !


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## bullfrog (Oct 30, 2009)

furtherbum said:


> So the advice is the same.
> 
> Last total newb question(s) (be easy! yes, i've searched) -- I don't know the mm of the AW 16340 batteries, but am reading that "For instance, a RCR123 needs the Pila spacer plus a nut and bolt of approximately 34mm." (from Pila IBC Charger compendium, here).
> 
> ...



Here are some pics with an IBC and all the components discussed above - I'm a visual learner and this would have helped me 

Pic 1: From left to right: IBC charger, Stock spacers that come with IBC, spacers you need to buy from AW, AW IMR RCR123 cells.







Pic 2: Stock spacers installed and RCR123 chambered - see we still have a gap so this is why we need the additional AW spacers.






Pic 3: Now we are cooking as the AW spacers are installed and the circuit complete 






Hope this helps and no worries man - we were all in your shoes at one point :twothumbs

Let us know if you have any more Qs!


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## furtherbum (Oct 30, 2009)

Thanks for the pics and the help. Exactly the explanations I was looking for. Much appreciated sir.


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## nfetterly (Oct 30, 2009)

Just in case you didn't pick up on it, nomenclature of batteries

16340 (16 mm diameter, 340 is reference to length)

17670 & 18650 - both roughly twice as long as 16340 - so don't require any spacers in charger. 17mm and 18 mm in diameter - I have 17670(s) only because I have some lights that I use single cell and 18650 won't fit.

18500 - this would require only one spacer in the Pila charger - some people use 2 of these in what is nominally a 3 CR123 cell light (i don't have any of these myself)


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