# Good, cheap lathes?



## milkyspit (Feb 21, 2004)

Okay, nobody had posted in this new forum yet, so I wanted to be the first! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Actually, maybe those folks with lathes could educate us non-lathemeisters on the minimum required to buy a lathe and a reasonable set of related tools and attachments for experimenting with crafting heatsinks, battery tubes, and the like. What I'm hoping to hear about is the minimum cost of entry, itemized, for a some decent quality stuff that will last a while. I'd hate to invest in equipment that falls apart in a year or two!

I know nothing about the subject, so this will be a big help. Looking forward to it, my lathe-ian friends!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## Chop (Feb 21, 2004)

Scott,

First you must take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm a newbie to the lathing world, but this is what I've found.

1. Don't waste your time with a 7X10. It's actually a 7X8. Go with a 7X12 or larger. Believe me, you run out of real estate fast. ***The Homier model is a deal. $350 shipped***

2. Tooling. Get yourself maybe half a dozen tool bit blanks. MSC and Enco are good resources. The only thing is that you'll need a grinder to use these. To shape and sharpen them. I picked up a grinder at a garage sale for $10, but they run in the $70 range. You could get pre ground tool bits for the mini lathe at the little machine shop. They have cool stuff, but they kill you on shipping and handling. I got pre ground bits (I'm lazy) for turning, cutting threads, and a bit for 90 degree chamfering.

3. Drills. You gotta have 'em. Don't bother with the cheap ones that you get like a set of 20 for $5. They really bend understress. Even the 1/2 inch ones. I get quality bits in sizes as I need them.

4. Threading. I cut all of my external threads on the lathe. It's really easy. My very first attempt at threading was on a light that I sold here. For internal threads, I use taps. Once again MSC direct. They have just about all of the sizes that you'll need. 13/16-20 for E series head compatibility, 11/16-20 for Z57 clickie compat., and 5/8-28 for Krolls.

5. Magic tap cutting fluid. Love this stuff.

6. Quick change tool post. Once you have one, you'll never go back. I got the one by TS engineering on ebay for $65 or so. You can also buy the extra tool holders from the manufacturer. Actually a guy that makes 'em.

7. Shop vac. Really needed for turning reflectors and such. I made a mount to hold it right by the turning area to grab shavings before they can hit the reflector surface.

8. Dead center for the head stock. I've found that turning between centers is a good way to keep parts really round relative to each other.

9. A decent dial caliper and gauge with a magnetic holder. I think that's what it's called.

10. Live center for the tail stock.

The list can go on and on. Realistically, you could get up and running for about $500. Just don't go nuts. You'll want to buy everything, but be patient. I've learned to buy as I need it.

Oh, a set of boring bars. I got mine for $16 from MSC.

I'm sure I'm missing some of the really obvious stuff, like I said, I'm a newbie.

Hopefully some of the more experienced guys can fill in the blanks.

All I can tell you is this. It's been the most fun learning experience I've ever had. Just get the lathe, all else will come.

Hey, I might have a 7X10 I'd be willing to let go cheap! I should have gotten the Homier. On the other hand, TLMS has a 7X14 extension bed for sale. See what I mean. It doesn't stop. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Mark_Larson (Feb 21, 2004)

Hey no fair! My post was at 02/21/04 12:04 AM and milkyspit's post was at 02/21/04 12:06 AM! Roth come back here!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif


----------



## Rothrandir (Feb 21, 2004)

whoops! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

i guess i'd better re-enroll in kindergarden /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif


----------



## LEDependent (Feb 21, 2004)

haha! I was gonna mention that...


----------



## alanz (Feb 21, 2004)

Scott,

As you know, I've been putting together my little 12x12' basement shop. Originally intended only for knifemaking, I added a lathe and mill to play with flashlights. It's been over 30 years since I worked with engine lathes in high school, but it's been fun returning to metalworking.

I went with the MicroMark lathe and mill. The lathe is 7x14, and more importantly for me, the store is in New Jersey, so I was able to see/touch/aks questions.

Every once in a while, they get scratched/dented deliveries, and I took a mill that had a minor cosmetic ding, and saved $110 on the piece (and it was pre-unpacked)

With all of the imported benchtop lathes/mills, you need to allocate time for unpacking/cleaning/tweaking, etc.

As far as tooling goes, it really depends on what you want to do. You may need 
<ul type="square">[*]Cutting tools and holders (bits, boring bars, cut-offs, drills, chucks, collets, centers, knurlers, taps, dies)
[*]Measuring tools (calipers, dial indicators and mounts)
[*]Sundry accessories and hand tools (wrenches, mallets, hacksaws, swarth brushes, shopvac/broom, goggles, dust masks, aprons, lubricants, squares, triangle, protractor)
[*]Sturdy worksurfaces, storage boxes for tooling and tools, lighting
[*]Various sizes and types of stock (flat, round bar)
[/list] 
I made a placeholder page that shows some of the equipment in my shop. Since these photos I've installed a metal cutting bandsaw and a variable speed 12" disk sander
click the links below for:
Photos of shop equipment 
Animated panorama of shop 

Enjoy,

Alan Z.


----------



## Chief_Wiggum (Feb 21, 2004)

These guys got you covered. I would just like to add buy lots of good drill bits. Nothing removes metal faster when boring than a drill. You'll soon find out. Many, many, many boring boring passes or one drilling pass /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Chop (Feb 21, 2004)

Scott,

I guess I should have added that I pretty much had a stocked work shop before I got the lathe. Lots of power tools and a good size air compressor. Every shop should have air.

The micro mark is probably the best mini lathe that you can get right now, but you pay for it. I think the Homier is the best bang for the buck.

Dive in, you'll like it.


----------



## jtice (Feb 21, 2004)

I have a Homier 7 X 12" lathe. and LOVE it.
It was only $360 shipped.
You will need about $100 to $200 in other parts, and tools to get started though.

I am new to this also, but did ALOT of research, so, if you need any help on a specific thing, PM me, I will do my best to help you out.


----------



## McGizmo (Feb 21, 2004)

The subject is good cheap lathes and I am not familiar with these new imports that are available at very affordable prices. These are great from what I can gather. You might also want to check your "local" news papers for used bench top lathes being sold by heirs of Dad's or Grandpa's work shop that is being cleaned out. I have had some great success in the past picking up machines that are as old as I am. Old SouthBends and Atlas come to mind. Like anything used, you might get a gem or something that should be scrapped. I recently bought a SouthBend turret lathe that turned out to be very limited in usefullness and finally gave it away. However in the $500 I paid for it, I got well over that price in value of tooling that came along with it!

I can guarantee that if you invest in a $500 lathe, new or used, and "get into it" that you will have more money invested in tooling than the lathe itself. As stated above though, you can buy as needed and within budget.

I prefer metal working to wood working and other materials because I am impatient and impulsive! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I don't like waiting for glues to set and coatings to dry. The pride and satisfication of creating and making your own is well worth the price of admission, IMHO.

In addition to the quick change tool post, I am a firm believer in indexable cutting tools with carbide inserts. These are more money to be sure but if you cut harder and tougher metals than Al and brass, they sure make life easier. You can also replace the insert and continue on a job without needing to change your setup. If you are making some multiples, this comes in handy. You could consider a turning and facing combination holder and insert and just start with one of these tools initially.


----------



## Eugene (Feb 21, 2004)

Anyone think something like this http://www.deltawoodworking.com/index.asp?e=136&p=4851 would work. I have their little mitersaw and drill press and both say they can be used on aluminum as well as wood so I'm thinking the lathe should be able to also.


----------



## Chop (Feb 21, 2004)

Don,

That's what I forgot. Indexable tooling. I got a cheap set from MSC for like $20 just to try it out. It's very nice. No need to touch up the bits. Just unscrew and turn. Pretty cool if you ask me. My next tooling purchase is going to be a Phase II indexable boring bar.


----------



## Rothrandir (Feb 21, 2004)

as far as tooling, i've only got the basics /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

blank tooling to grind
set of boring bars
a couple drill bits in various sizes
knurling scissors
adjustable cutter
a couple taps and dies
tailstock chuck
digital calipers
optic center

i'd like to get a collet set, some reamers, a *milling attachment*, qc toolholder, steady rest, and some more gauges and stuff eventually, but probably not anytime in the near future /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

you can get away with a lot of stuff with only minimal tooling, but more stuff = more possiblities. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Chop (Feb 24, 2004)

I'm thinking of getting another lathe. From what I've read, the micro mark is the best of the small import lathes. I don't want to go bigger than a 7X14 because it seems that the larger one don't have some things that I've gotten used to. Like reverse and being able to adjust speed on the fly.

At this point, I'm torn between just getting the 7X14 bed extension and upgrading my 7X10 or getting either the Homier 7X12 or the micro mark 7X14.

I was thinking that if I had two lathes, then I could leave one set up for threading and turning without the auto feed and the other for general turning and shaping.

I suppose my biggest question is this. Is the micro mark really worth the twice as much price. I like the Homier, but really want that extra two inches of real estate.

I just had a thought. I could get the Homier AND the bed extension and still come out cheaper than getting the Micro Mark. Any advise.


----------



## Ardent (Feb 25, 2004)

Does anyone have this lathe?
http://www.lathemaster.com/LATHEMASTER8x14Lathe.htm
Any opinions on its features, pros/cons?
Chop mentioned this on another thread ....
Thanks!
- Arden


----------



## cy (Feb 25, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*McGizmo said:*You might also want to check your "local" news papers for used bench top lathes Old SouthBends and Atlas come to mind. However in the $500 I paid for it, I got well over that price in value of tooling that came along with it!

I can guarantee that if you invest in a $500 lathe, new or used, and "get into it" that you will have more money invested in tooling than the lathe itself. 

In addition to the quick change tool post, I am a firm believer in indexable cutting tools with carbide inserts. You can also replace the insert and continue on a job without needing to change your setup. If you are making some multiples, this comes in handy. You could consider a turning and facing combination holder and insert and just start with one of these tools initially. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your valuable insights. I'm finding out in a hurry about how accurate your comment are "you will have more money invested in tooling than the lathe itself". 

I'm going to start looking for used lathes ads to get at the tooling. I would like to start with a turning and facing combination holder and insert initially as per your recogmendations.

This is going to put a stop to my flashlight buying...naaah but for sure slow it down.

You mentioned using a quick change holder to do multiples. Do you use a CNC lathe or standard lathe to create your Mclux PR and bodies? 

Thanks,
CY


----------



## jtice (Feb 25, 2004)

Chop, let me remeasure mine, if i can remember. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

The Homier holds larger than 12" 
Homier rates them conservative.

But yes, every inch counts in these small lathes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Rothrandir (Feb 25, 2004)

now, now ticey...

just because your's is bigger is no reason to brag.
it's all about how you use it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


----------



## jtice (Feb 25, 2004)

lol, now now Roth.

You and your one track mind. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif

I used mine good, and broke it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif Damn tool holder snapped in half ! lol
I wanted a quick change holder anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


----------



## Chop (Feb 25, 2004)

I think I'm gonna take the plunge and get the Homier, rather than risk screwing up the bed extension upgrade.

Now I have to decide if I'm gonna keep the HF 7X10 or let it go cheap. Hey, maybe I could trade it for something cool.


----------



## alanz (Feb 25, 2004)

Chop,

One other thing that differentiates the MicroMark with the 14" bed from the others is the "TrueInch" dials and leadscrew. As far as I know, they are the exclusive importers of this feature on the factory's lathes and mills.

This may or may not be important to you.


----------



## Chop (Feb 25, 2004)

alanz,

I have to admit that the MicroMark is appealing. I like the true inch form factor. I'd be able to do away with my calculator, but it's the "twice the price" part that throws me off.

It's looking like I have to settle (if you can really call it that) for the Homier.


----------



## jtice (Feb 25, 2004)

You should be happy with the Homier, it got great reviews everywhere I looked, everyone dsaid they are great.

Mines been good. Cant beat it for the $$


----------



## alanz (Feb 25, 2004)

Is it twice the price when you factor in the bed extension, and quick release tailstock?

I know it's a bit pricier, but in my case I thought the extra features were worth the price (particularly the longer bed). If I thought the other brands were a much better value, I'd probably have considered them more carefully.


----------



## Chop (Feb 25, 2004)

Well, the 2" bed extension is worth $50 and the quick release tail stock is worth $30. Still too expensive for my blood.

Don't get me wrong, if I had the money, I'd be all over the MicroMark. The price diff between the two though means a whole bunch of tooling and enough aluminum stock to do a butt load of lights.

Alan, if you keep pushing like this, I may just wind up having to get the Micromark. Man, I really want that machine, but the Homier is more practical.

How much did MicroMark hit you up for shipping?


----------



## Beretta1526 (Feb 25, 2004)

Hey Tony,

If you decide to sell the HF 7x10, maybe you could let me know first?


----------



## tvodrd (Feb 25, 2004)

Forgive the nostalgia, but I remember when Sears sold lathes. They were the Atlas-type, belt drive with backgear. Swing over bed was 9" (I think.) Cut my teeth on one in high school. (At least I didn't break any teeth in the gearbox on it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) 

Larry


----------



## alanz (Feb 25, 2004)

I picked up the lathe and mill at Micromark, so there was no shipping. I did have to pay NJ sales tax though.


----------



## Chop (Feb 25, 2004)

Beretta,

Send me your zip code. I'd like to calculate shipping just in case I decide to sell it, so I could figure what a decent price would be.


----------



## jtice (Feb 26, 2004)

Shipping from Homier was $60.
I dont know if it was calculated to my location though.
$300 lathe, $60 shipping, $360 total. Not bad at all.


----------



## Chop (Feb 26, 2004)

You guys are gonna push me over the edge. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Maybe if I sell a couple of lights, I'll have an easier time justifying this. B/S/T here I come.


----------



## jtice (Feb 26, 2004)

Oh OH I want them!

err ah, what ya sellin? LOL

More of those custom lights you somehow crank out in just a couple hours ! geeez


----------



## Chop (Feb 26, 2004)

jtice,

You really need to order some PR's. These things turn easily and are easy to work with. No exact centering hassles and that beautiful beam.


----------



## jtice (Feb 26, 2004)

Chop,

I think I have one extra around here some where. I might try that.

Yes, they make excellent beams. Really nice for ther size.

And, it seems they can be turned down really small, and still be really nice. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Chop (Feb 26, 2004)

OK, I took the plunge. AGAIN. It's amazing, but hitting that button wasn't all that hard. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

My new Homier is on its way. We'll see if there really is any difference in build among the different makes.

Beretta, PM sent.


----------



## Chop (Feb 26, 2004)

jtice,

did you get the internal AND external jaws for the chuck with your Homier? I was just looking at it again and realized that almost nothing comes with it, unless I missed something. How about a live center?


----------



## jtice (Feb 26, 2004)

Both sets of jaws come with it.

I think its just the dead center. (just a pointed rod that goes in the chuck holder)

No drill bit chuck comes with it.
Basically nothing comes with it.

Just the jaws, dead center, drill bit chuck holder, all the gears needed, and wrenchs.


----------



## Chop (Feb 26, 2004)

jtice,

Thanks a lot. The sale of my HF lathe just fell through, so I'll have all of my parts from that lathe too, unless I sell it.

Now I have to decide whether I want to keep the HF or not. I suppose it would be nice to have two and besides, what could I possibly get for it, with the cost of shipping and all.


----------



## SKYWLKR (Mar 10, 2004)

http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Versions/Versions.htm#HF8x12

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Info/minilathe_compare.php

help any?

I think I have just scored myself a 9X24 1 horse unit.... for free  it has a broken feed gear but hey I can still hand feed it with the wheel... the Machinist (OK so he's my fiance's dad)said he could help me cut a new set of gears for it to get that working too....

I was following this thread closly and had almost decided on the micromark... glad I waited.. now I just need to figure out where to put it...

I'm guessing I will be posting here a lot trying to figure this thing out..and I hope it's not too big.


----------



## SKYWLKR (Mar 10, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Chop said:*
jtice,

Thanks a lot. The sale of my HF lathe just fell through, so I'll have all of my parts from that lathe too, unless I sell it.

Now I have to decide whether I want to keep the HF or not. I suppose it would be nice to have two and besides, what could I possibly get for it, with the cost of shipping and all. 

[/ QUOTE ]

If I find this lathe to be to big to be use I might would be interested in your lathe...I'm guessing HF= harbor freight?


----------



## Chop (Mar 10, 2004)

Well, my Homier is due to be delivered on Friday. For now, I'll just leave the HF 7X10 setup for threading, and I'll use the Homier for everything else.

Now maybe I could do some bigger lights.


----------



## MicroE (Mar 11, 2004)

Chop---You mentioned earlier that you use reverse on the lathe. Why?


----------



## MoonRise (Mar 11, 2004)

Good, not cheap. Sherline Machine package deals


----------



## unnerv (Mar 11, 2004)

Reverse can be used when threading so you don't have to disengage the feed halfnut, disengage the tool from the tread or use the threading dial. You can just make a pass, stop at the end, put it into reverse and back it out then stop, bring the tool in deeper and go forward again. Because the feed is never disengaged you will always line up the tread perfectly, so less chance of a threading error. Also if you ever need to cut left hand threads you need to have reverse to do it.


----------



## Chop (Mar 11, 2004)

MicroE,

When I build my lights, I have to cut angles and such going both ways. Cutting in reverse is just easier and sometimes rechucking the other end is not an option. I also cut left handed threads and other odd things for my sons bike hobby. He takes old beat up Schwinn frames and customizes them.


----------



## ABTOMAT (Mar 11, 2004)

I haven't followed the whole thread, but great deals can be hand on used lathes through the paper, school or equipment auctions, and classifieds magazines. A guy I know in CT bought several South Bend 9" models and one SB Heavy 10 for around $100 each from a buy/sell paper. These are smallish tools, probably a couple hundred pounds for the 9s and several for the 10. Worth several thousand bucks. '40s-'60s vintage.

Older Craftsman metal lathes made by AA or Atlas are pretty common, too.


----------



## MicroE (Mar 12, 2004)

Thanks for the answers about reverse. 
I guess that I never use reverse because I never cut threads with a single point tool. If I can't cut them with tap and die set then I don't cut them. Calculating and mounting all of those gears is too much of a hassle for me.


----------



## KC2IXE (Mar 12, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*MicroE said:*
...snip... Calculating and mounting all of those gears is too much of a hassle for me. 

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to get a quick change gear box


----------



## TheFire (Mar 12, 2004)

there's this:
http://www.craigslist.org/eby/for/26017538.html

for those of you who are in the SF bay area...


----------



## unnerv (Mar 12, 2004)

wow, that is cheap...I am almost considering buying it just to leave it setup for threading...must resist.


----------



## trailhead (Mar 13, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*TheFire said:*
there's this:
http://www.craigslist.org/eby/for/26017538.html

for those of you who are in the SF bay area... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone in the Bay area want to pick it up for me and ship it to Canada? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Duane (only half kidding)


----------

