# The Allure of Surefire lights?



## dna89 (Aug 6, 2013)

Ladies & Gentlemen, Being a bit new to the flashlight world. I'm curious, what makes Surefire lights so special.( I have noticed many prefer them here ) To me, they seem a bit costly ....Aren't there other lights out with the same or superior specs @ half the cost???


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## AnAppleSnail (Aug 6, 2013)

Here are some helpful CPF searches. Not that your question isn't worth discussion, just that we've had a lot of related discussions.

Surefire Cost

Surefire Price

Surefire Worth It

In short, the people who have bought Surefire lights sometimes like them and sometimes don't. The people who really like them will tell you a lot of reasons to like them. The people who don't really like them will tell you a lot of reasons not to.


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## dna89 (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanx! Actually yes, I was looking to get a discussion going from those who own & like/dislike them... I appreciate the links!


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## MatthewSB (Aug 6, 2013)

dna89 said:


> Aren't there other lights out with the same or superior specs @ half the cost???



...Yes, but they aren't nearly as reliable. For some people, whose lives, and the lives of others, depend on their tools' reliability, it's worth the extra cost and lack of neat but unncessary features for the Surefire.

People have had trouble with Surefires, but your chances of failure with a Surefire seem to be way less likely than with just about any Chinese light. If you do have a problem with a Surefire, they fix it promptly and painlessly. My E1B tailcap had a 'sticky' button, so they mailed me a new one without any proof that I even own the light and didn't require me to send the old one back.

Also, Surefire's lumens ratings are very conservative. My 500 lumen Fury is brighter than a co-workers 800+ lumen Nitecore, for example. Either Nitecore over estimates their brightness, surefire underdoes it, or some combination of both.

Reliability > Gimmicky features and a few more lumens


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## dna89 (Aug 6, 2013)

I hear ya! I had the same issue with a solarforce tailcap. They did the same. Matt have you tested your lumens on the Fury? I know many of the companies 'pad' their lumens ratings. What kind of Cd is it putting out?


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## MichaelW (Aug 6, 2013)

You are part of the military-industrial complex team!


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## dna89 (Aug 6, 2013)

@ MIchael... Not certain what that means...


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## Dingle1911 (Aug 6, 2013)

For me it is warranty and customer service. I am just a regular guy, but I use my lights and carry one with me every where I go. Sometime lights break or sustain some type of damage. Sometimes it is even my fault, but Surefire takes care of me and repairs or replaces my lights. For example that tail switch on my LX2 stopped allowing me to use low mode, SF send me a new one, no questions asked. I chose to pay more on the front end knowing that I can count on SF to take care of me.


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## BillSWPA (Aug 6, 2013)

1) Reliability. I need my tools to work with boring regularity.

2) Well designed form and user interface, clearly set up by someone who understands the end use of the light.

3) Availability of accessories, belt carriers, etc.

4) Excellent warranty service on the rare occasions when something does not go as it should.


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 6, 2013)

There are some/many that do not run on rechargeables... a big disadvantage for me. And of course price...you might be able to buy 3 Fenix`s or 3 Eagletacs...Nitecores ect. for the price of one Surefire...sort of negates to some extent the excellent warranty Surefire provides.


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## KeyGrip (Aug 7, 2013)

They make nice lights. Other companies make nice lights as well, and odds are you will learn more about them the more time you spend here. The best plan is to do your research and find out what makes a light worth it _to you_, as well as which lights aren't worth it at all but you still want to own because they are _just so cool. _


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## LightJaguar (Aug 7, 2013)

Honestly speaking the new Surefires don't really allure me that much. I'm a hardcore Surefire fan but the newer stuff is just not as good and the older generation in my humble opinion. The new E2D looks good with a few others but I think Surefire has lost a lot of it's luster that it had in the past. 
For me the allure of the older stuff was having a great quality flashlight that looked good and performed just as good. A lot of their newer stuff looks like Chinese stuff (I might burn in flashlight hell for saying that). Their older generation stuff was so well designed that it spawned a lot of copycats like Ultrafire, Solarforce, Xenoled. That alone spoke volumes of their design and quality. Not only that but they also created a sizable aftermarket for accessories and upgrades to make our great flashlights even better. 
For example the design for the Surefire C2 was so good that just by looking at it the average Joe could tell that it was no ordinary flashlight. I had a girl who didn't know anything about flashlights look at my C2, ask what it was and ended up telling me how good it looked.


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## jamie.91 (Aug 7, 2013)

The same as many things in life such as tools, cars and just about anything else " you get what you pay for". 

Surefire have earned their reputation and there are many reasons for that, basically it's a numbers game, less surefires fail than Chinese lights and worldwide there's definatley more Chinese lights in use so the ratio favours surefire also.

I think :headscratch:


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## Brasso (Aug 7, 2013)

Surefires work. They have simple UI's. The best customer service there is if needed. 

They aren't as flashy and don't have all the neat features of some of other lights, but those other lights will most likely fail within 1 to 2 years of actual use. You can pass Surefires on to your grandchildren. Surefire has started to make lower priced "consumer" lights that may not be as bombproof as their professional/military line of lights, but you get what you pay for. There are multiple threads asking "Why should I get an LX2 when the Fenix TK11 is just as good and half the price?" The answer is that in about a year you're going to be asking how to fix your TK11". 

Surefire makes lights for professionals. Not armchair commandos. Do most people need a Surefire? Probably not. But like a sportscar, they are fun to own.

I use them in a law enforcement capacity. To me they are worth every penny.


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## fresh eddie fresh (Aug 7, 2013)

I never understand people complaining about Surefire prices... you can find used 6Ps for around $45 pretty regularly. With Surefire's quality and warranty, I am never afraid to buy a used one.


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## dna89 (Aug 7, 2013)

OK, ya'll sold me... Would the Surefire Fury be a good starting out light?


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## cland72 (Aug 7, 2013)

dna89 said:


> OK, ya'll sold me... Would the Surefire Fury be a good starting out light?



Yes. I would also highly recommend you pick up a 6P original as well, and eventually research the Malkoff M61 LED drop in offerings by Malkoff Devices, Oveready, and Illumination Supply.

Part of the great thing about the older Surefires is they are almost all built to use the P60 format, which is easliy upgradeable. The newer lights (Fury, 6PX, G2X, etc) are not upgradeable without significant effort or cost.


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## dna89 (Aug 7, 2013)

cland72 said:


> Yes. I would also highly recommend you pick up a 6P original as well, and eventually research the Malkoff M61 LED drop in offerings by Malkoff Devices, Oveready, and Illumination Supply.
> 
> Part of the great thing about the older Surefires is they are almost all built to use the P60 format, which is easliy upgradeable. The newer lights (Fury, 6PX, G2X, etc) are not upgradeable without significant effort or cost.



+1 I have a nice collection of Solarforce lights so I have some drop ins


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## Chodes (Aug 7, 2013)

Buy and try is the only way you will be able to judge for yourself.
I have 1 Solarforce and really don't like it. Feels cheap and nasty. I am fully aware many are happy with their Solarforce lights.

If you are happy with your Solarforce, can only imagine 1 of 2 outcomes.
You'll either want to sell your Solarforce collection when you receive your first Surefire, or you'll want to sell the Surefire to pay for 3 more Solarforce. 

I'd say either decision is 100% correct.


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## dna89 (Aug 7, 2013)

Chodes said:


> Buy and try is the only way you will be able to judge for yourself.
> I have 1 Solarforce and really don't like it. Feels cheap and nasty. I am fully aware many are happy with their Solarforce lights.
> 
> If you are happy with your Solarforce, can only imagine 1 of 2 outcomes.
> ...



+1 LOL, that seems to be the case in much of my light collecting... I must admit. I am very partial to my Solarforce L2T.


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## fresh eddie fresh (Aug 8, 2013)

dna89 said:


> OK, ya'll sold me... Would the Surefire Fury be a good starting out light?



The Fury is a great light... for me the low setting works for most tasks I need a light for and has great runtime, but if you click again, the OMG super bright beam is unleashed. The beam is a great mix of throw and spill.


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## cland72 (Aug 8, 2013)

I'll give you a short story on how I arrived at Surefire.

Bought a 3AAA Coleman LED white/red/blue combo light for a hog hunt back in 2009. It quickly ran down the batteries and left me with a dimly lit light when tracking blood trails after dark. I decided to get a good light when I got back from my trip.

Bought a Fenix LD20 and was really impressed. I remember even taunting my buddy with a Surefire E2DL and saying that mine was just as bright as his, plus it had strobe. 3.5 years after buying the LD20, it stopped working after a 3 foot drop onto large gravel (in retrospect, it was probably the tailcap internals coming loose, but this was before my days of cruising CPF so I didn't know it was something that could be fixed). Threw it away, and yet again, decided to get a good light when I got home.

I bought a Surefire G2 with P60 incan, and it worked well, but ate through my batteries. I bought a P60L drop in, then was gifted a Surefire 6P for helping a friend, then found Malkoff's website, then upgraded the 6P.

I now have 5-6 Surefires, most of them sporting Malkoff drop ins of various types/tints. Ever since buying Surefire/Malkoff, I have not once been disappointed.


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## BillSWPA (Aug 8, 2013)

I also tried less expensive solutions before moving primarily to Surefire. Some things I have come to realize:

1) Buying a tool that does not quite do the job you need will ultimately result in buying another, more expensive tool, which is often the one you should have purchased initially. The stingy man sometimes pays the most.

2) I would rather have a small number of good quality tools than a large number of lesser quality ones. I only carry 1-2 lights at any given time, and the rest will typically end up in my drawer.

3) It does not matter how bright it is or how many features it has if it doesn't work when you turn it on when you need it.

Even though my primary EDC will likely remain a Surefire for quite some time, I do rely on other brands for other uses, particularly since I started coming here.

1) Three of my four incandescent Surefires have now been upgraded to LED with Malkoff dropins or conversion heads.

2) Streamlight makes some very nice weapon lights at a more reasonable price.

3) FourSevens makes some nice tiny lights. I have purchased two so far, and will purchase more.


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## cland72 (Aug 8, 2013)

BillSWPA said:


> 3) It does not matter how bright it is or how many features it has if it doesn't work when you turn it on when you need it.



This x1,000.


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## dna89 (Aug 8, 2013)

I recently received a Zebralight SC52. Thats my newest EDC. Love that little light.


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## yoyoman (Aug 8, 2013)

>They make great hosts. Many different dropin options are available.
>SureFire sizes, both E series and P/C, are the standards many builders use. So it is easy to get interesting lego set ups.


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## think2x (Aug 8, 2013)

Reliability
Durability
Warranty

My warranty turn around time is usually 2 weeks or less. Off the top of my head the only things I have used the warranty for lately are a cracked lens on an A2L and a Minimus drawing current while off sucking cells dead.


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## novice (Aug 9, 2013)

dna89,
Everyone has pretty much stated the main reasons for Surefire's popularity. This has sometimes been a contentious issue in the past, and several similar-themed threads have degenerated quickly into angry arguments, so it is a pleasure to see this one remain so pleasant (and I _know_ the mods are watching!). I have bought more Surefires than I needed (which might have been - one) in the past, and rarely buy flashlights now, but I agree with lightJaguar in that I preferred the previous generation not only for their aesthetics, but also for their versatility. The older (non-current) P/C/G/Z series offers so much interchangeability in terms of 'light engines' (incan lamp assemblies or led modules), and the ability to use potent rechargeable lithium-ion cells. Whether it is/was an official Surefire light engine, or one of the vast array of quality aftermarket parts designed for this platform, you have a lot of options. The e-series still offers a lot of performance in a compact package. You might try watching the CPF marketplace for awhile (separate registration), because affordable used classic SF models are bound to come up from time to time. The nice thing is, even if you buy up a beat-up example, the warranty is as good for the 100th owner as for the first.


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## dna89 (Aug 11, 2013)

I can completely understand the other members & their loyalty to SF because of their warranty. I am exactly the same about warranties. ( I collect leatherman products ) it's their warranty that has kept me loyal. I have many lights ( mostly from China ) I don't expect many would back any type of warranty. It would be very convenient to be able to send a light to an American based company if there was a issue.


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## fresh eddie fresh (Aug 12, 2013)

dna89 said:


> I can completely understand the other members & their loyalty to SF because of their warranty. I am exactly the same about warranties. ( I collect leatherman products ) it's their warranty that has kept me loyal. I have many lights ( mostly from China ) I don't expect many would back any type of warranty. It would be very convenient to be able to send a light to an American based company if there was a issue.



In all honesty, most of the time you do not even end up sending anything back to them. I had a Scout Light tailcap jam in the "on" position... I called them and had a new one delivered a few days later. Same thing with a scratched up Z2 lens, they sent a whole new bezel that takes the glass lens without even asking for the old one.


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## outersquare (Aug 12, 2013)

I can vouch their support is awesome


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## tgil (Jan 22, 2014)

As you will see from my post count, this is a new interest of mine. What specific features about Sure Fire lights draw you to them?


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## cland72 (Jan 23, 2014)

For most people, it's their durability and warranty. They do not make the brightnest, nor the longest running lights out there, but they sure are dependable.


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## TMedina (Jan 23, 2014)

tgil said:


> As you will see from my post count, this is a new interest of mine. What specific features about Sure Fire lights draw you to them?



1. The build quality - there is something different and comfortable for me when I handle a Surefire Z2, or E-series, that I don't find with other lights. 
2. Reliability - as others have said, as long as I've done my part, I fully expect my Surefire to work. And have never been disappointed.
3. Customer service - yes, you do pay for it, but it's kind of nice to know that they support their products extremely well.

Disclaimer: I prefer the older incans and e-series lights, as well as the older E1B. I don't have any of the newer "X" series of lights, nor the latest releases of the EB1/2 and so forth.

But based on my previous experiences, if I had to "grab and go" a light out of the box, Surefire would be very nearly at the top of the list.


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## hoop762 (Jan 24, 2014)

I've got an old 6P incan I use around the house for whatever I may happen to need it for. When I hold it, it almost bleeds quality. It feels solid and good in the hand, almost like I could hammer nails with it. It really is a thing of beauty and I've found the reliability to be excellent. 

With all that in mind, when I'm on duty, I don't carry it. For a few reasons... its heavy and I can't pocket carry comfortably. With some of my other lights I get twice the output AND twice the run time (even if I were to drop in an led upgrade). My foreign made lights have proven themselves to be reliable when lives literally depend on them. 

I love my 6p. It was a gift from a dear friend given to me years ago. Not only is it an awesome piece of hardware, it holds special meaning to me as well. I don't believe I will ever get rid of it. And, around the house, it is an outstanding light for my uses. You won't be disappointed in the reliability. Tho you may feel a little let down in other areas, depending on what you're used to and what you expect. 

The right tool for the job...YMMV.


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## thiswayup (Jan 24, 2014)

I'm sure that Surefires are reliable compared to the average of Chinese light performance. But no sane person would make that comparison - they'd compare Surefire to those alternative brands that have established a strong record for reliability too. Which means comparing Surefire to Fenix - and Fenix provide much more bang for the buck, more usable EDC light designs, and there is no evidence at all that they are less reliable.


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## TMedina (Jan 24, 2014)

Whatever floats your boat. I like Fenix lights well enough. But I wouldn't count on my E11 or E21 the same way I do my Surefires or my Malkoffs.


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## Loed7984 (Jan 24, 2014)

I'm a fenix user but I have also some surefire, the only drawback that I can find in Surefire is that in Italy is very difficult to find the newest models

Inviato dal mio HUAWEI G525-U00 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Monocrom (Jan 24, 2014)

You get quality lights that are reliable, durable, and easily going to outlive you. 

Unfortunately, nowadays you also get slippery designs that are absolutely sub-par in terms of grip retention.


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## cland72 (Jan 24, 2014)

IMO there is no better, quality, well-rounded light out there than a Surefire 6P. You can add whatever LED drop in you prefer (I prefer Malkoff) and it will, as Monocrom said, outlast you.


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## AnthonyMcEwen2014 (Jan 24, 2014)

cland72 said:


> IMO there is no better, quality, well-rounded light out there than a Surefire 6P. You can add whatever LED drop in you prefer (I prefer Malkoff) and it will, as Monocrom said, outlast you.



Yhea but comeing from a Flashaholics perspective, surely this is actualy a negative, I mean who wants a light that will out last you, comon sure we want reliabilerty, but when a light only lasts 3-5 years, it means we can use it as an excuse to upgrade again....


Lol, Im so gonna get flamed!


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## Monocrom (Jan 24, 2014)

AnthonyMcEwen said:


> Yhea but comeing from a Flashaholics perspective, surely this is actualy a negative, I mean who wants a light that will out last you, comon sure we want reliabilerty, but when a light only lasts 3-5 years, it means we can use it as an excuse to upgrade again....
> 
> 
> Lol, Im so gonna get flamed!



I got the gasoline and my trusty Bic. :nana:

It's just nice that in this miserable world where the Disposable Society has taken over so nearly completely... A company exists that wants to make quality products which last. Considering the Lifespan of a SureFire compared to many other lights from other brands, a SureFire ends up looking downright cheap since you only need to buy the model you like only once.


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## cland72 (Jan 24, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> a SureFire ends up looking downright cheap since you only need to buy the model you like only once.



True, if I could buy only one. I can't cuss word deleted - Norm help myself.


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## fyrstormer (Jan 24, 2014)

Surefire never really appealed to me. I like my flashlights a bit more feature-rich than Surefire makes them, and titanium is far more durable than aluminum. However, if all you want is a flashlight that turns on when you hit the switch for the rest of your life, or else the company will replace it, Surefire is a good brand to choose.


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## thiswayup (Jan 24, 2014)

TMedina said:


> Whatever floats your boat. I like Fenix lights well enough. But I wouldn't count on my E11 or E21 the same way I do my Surefires or my Malkoffs.



Yes. And a lot of people feel the same way. But when you down to it, no one can give a rational reason for this belief - it's groupthink, marketing, and often a perception that heavier and shinier and more attractive = more reliable. But they don't; show isn't go.


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## P_A_S_1 (Jan 24, 2014)

While I only have two SF lights, and one of those was given to my brother a few years ago, I'd say for me simplicity, reliability, and customer service is what makes their lights so good. My first SF, a 6P Laser Products, is over twenty years old and other then cosmetically looking worn it works like it did from day one (although the bulb did burnout). I didn't know you were suppose to clean and lube the flashlight threads to keep them reliable until I joined CPF, I don't think I ever cleaned or lubed the 6P, ever. The only issue I had was the lens was scratched up pretty bad after years of use. When I inquired about a replacement SF sent me a new bezel no questions asked. When my other SF, a Minimus, needed to be adjusted they sent my the needed allen key. Their CS is helpful and more then fair IMO.


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## cland72 (Jan 24, 2014)

thiswayup said:


> Yes. And a lot of people feel the same way. But when you down to it, no one can give a rational reason for this belief - it's groupthink, marketing, and often a perception that heavier and shinier and more attractive = more reliable. But they don't; show isn't go.



I can give you my reason: an E21 was intermittently working, an LD10 had an extremely audible buzz while on high modes, and a LD20 flat out failed and I was unable to ressurect it (outside of warranty, of course).

So yeah, Fenix is "good enough", but I don't put them in the same class as Surefire.


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## fyrstormer (Jan 24, 2014)

thiswayup said:


> Yes. And a lot of people feel the same way. But when you down to it, no one can give a rational reason for this belief - it's groupthink, marketing, and often a perception that heavier and shinier and more attractive = more reliable. But they don't; show isn't go.


Incorrect. Surefire, Malkoff, and Elzetta are built specifically to withstand automatic-weapon recoil. Fenix and other similar brands are not. That doesn't mean they would fall apart if attached to a gun, but they haven't been exhaustively tested to ensure they *won't* fall apart if attached to a gun. The only problem with groupthink is the number of people who think they *need* a flashlight that can function indefinitely when bolted to an M-16.

As for heft implying reliability -- no, it isn't the only factor, but a heavier flashlight will require more force to accelerate it in an impact, so an impact of the same force will accelerate a lighter flashlight more, which will in-turn put greater stress on the internal components. Also, a heavier casing is usually more rigid, and less likely to permanently deform from a severe impact. Permanent deformation can crush components that would've otherwise survived the impact. Heft implies reliability for a reason -- it's not an infallible instinct, but it is a useful instinct when combined with a bit of rational thinking.


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## fyrstormer (Jan 24, 2014)

P_A_S_1 said:


> While I only have two SF lights, and one of those was given to my brother a few years ago, I'd say for me simplicity, reliability, and customer service is what makes their lights so good. My first SF, a 6P Laser Products, is over twenty years old and other then cosmetically looking worn it works like it did from day one (although the bulb did burnout). I didn't know you were suppose to clean and lube the flashlight threads to keep them reliable until I joined CPF, I don't think I ever cleaned or lubed the 6P, ever. The only issue I had was the lens was scratched up pretty bad after years of use. When I inquired about a replacement SF sent me a new bezel no questions asked. When my other SF, a Minimus, needed to be adjusted they sent my the needed allen key. Their CS is helpful and more then fair IMO.


That customer service is what you're *really* paying for when you pay a hundred dollars for a metal tube with an unregulated incandescent bulb at one end and a simple pressure-switch at the other. Surefire knows that tools always break eventually, so they sell you a comprehensive warranty package, with a flashlight included as a bonus.


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## TMedina (Jan 24, 2014)

thiswayup said:


> Yes. And a lot of people feel the same way. But when you down to it, no one can give a rational reason for this belief - it's groupthink, marketing, and often a perception that heavier and shinier and more attractive = more reliable. But they don't; show isn't go.



I'll re-phrase. I have never, ever had a Surefire crap out on me. A couple of Fenix lights have died on me. If that's all marketing hype and group hysteria, cool - it's still a little peace of mind that can be useful in a crisis.

As for "show isn't go" - you can apply that to every shiny piece of electronics to ever roll out. Surefire over-engineers their product line. Ridiculously so, but for good reason - their initial target market is a demanding one.

You don't believe that counts for anything, cool. Save your money and spend it elsewhere. For some of us, however, we kinda like that feeling and are willing to spend extra to have it.


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## Monocrom (Jan 24, 2014)

cland72 said:


> True, if I could buy only one. I can't effin help myself.



+1 on that.


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## thiswayup (Jan 24, 2014)

fyrstormer said:


> Incorrect. Surefire, Malkoff, and Elzetta are built specifically to withstand automatic-weapon recoil. Fenix and other similar brands are not.



This is probably widely believed, but it is completely wrong. According to Surefire's own site at least it used to be there) only the incans were built this way - because that level of resistance is almost automatically achieved with LEDs. It's not at all hard - yes, the gun kicks your shoulder, but that limits the movement and makes things easier on the light. Compared to the ANSI drop standard that Fenix adhere to, it's not a real test. Mounting a light on a mountain bike is probably much tougher.

Oh - and the weapon lights were designed around was a shotgun, not an unspecified "automatic". (Some full autos have very mild recoil because they spread the individual impulses nicely - plus they tend to be small calibre.)



> As for heft implying reliability -- no, it isn't the only factor, but a heavier flashlight will require more force to accelerate it in an impact, so an impact of the same force will accelerate a lighter flashlight more, which will in-turn put greater stress on the internal components.



I should admit here that I have a physics degree..

1. Impacts actually don't have "force"; they have a speed and momentum

2. Flashlights usually got damaged by **falling**, where acceleration and therefore impact speed are the same for heavy and light.. umm, lights

3. The speed something moves at due to an impact can't be higher than that of the impact. When a light is hit by something with substantially more mass than it has, it will move at more or less the speed of the hit, regardless of weight. 

...So the physics you refer to are correct, but would only matter if you do something like, ohh, hang the light by a rope and throw small stones at it. If it falls to the ground, gets knocked against a wall, or is used to block a baseball bat, they are irrelevant. In fact, there are probably isn't a practical case where a light is at risk of damage where your reasoning matters. (Which is why so many of the lights sold to firefighters have light polymer cases.)


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## thiswayup (Jan 24, 2014)

cland72 said:


> I can give you my reason: an E21 was intermittently working, an LD10 had an extremely audible buzz while on high modes, and a LD20 flat out failed and I was unable to ressurect it (outside of warranty, of course).
> 
> So yeah, Fenix is "good enough", but I don't put them in the same class as Surefire.




That is a good reason!


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## dss_777 (Jan 24, 2014)

Well I'm no rocket surgeon, but when I *really need* to be able to push the switch and have the light consistently come on, I spend the money for what I consider 'tier 1' products - Surefire and/or Malkoff, in my case. This would be for things like weaponlights, survival/emergency situations, and/or when I get lights for people I care about. What makes top quality is not just my experience but also the experiences of others I trust. 

If I'm doing less critical tasks, like household repair, grilling meat on the BBQ, or shining them into the distance/up in the air for fun, then almost anything will do. 

Cost and value are different metrics, in my mind. 

If I just wanted to "collect" lights so I could get a thrill seeing them lined up neatly on a shelf, or for bragging about on the internet, it wouldn't matter in the least what they're made of or how well they work.


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## Superdave (Jan 24, 2014)

One day at work I was using my 3-AA LED Mag for something. It was only a few weeks old and it kept flaking out on me. It was right then I decided to buy better lights for every day use. 

I dont mind paying more for quality, reliablity, a good warranty and even a little resale value later on.


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## MichaelW (Jan 24, 2014)

Pretty cheap price for admission into a cult.


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## ganymede (Jan 24, 2014)

My wife asks me why I love her, I said I don't know why I love her but I love her! Same reason why I love my Surefires


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## RobertMM (Jan 25, 2014)

8 Surefires=no failures
3 Fenix=2 switches dead
3 Solarforce=1 lost its other modes
1 Eagletac=no problems
1 Nitecore= sometimes fails to turn on
1 Xeno=dead
1 ITP=dead
1 Quark=no problems
YMMV, but the SF and Quark are my favorites.


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## Cerealand (Jan 26, 2014)

The threads on the c series surefire hosts are very durable. I had accidentally dropped one of my 9p without the tailcap onto cement from about 3 feet. No damage. Tailcap threaded on just fine after the accident. I have a few Malkoff hosts with damage threads (dropped without either tailcap or bezel on) from minor drops.


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## bluebonnet (Jan 26, 2014)

Trust.


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## RobertMM (Jan 26, 2014)

When I was new to this around 2008, I had just a Led Lenser V2. I remember seeing a 6P at a shop and saying to myself "Now that's how you make tailcap threads!" and compared to to the V2 I had whose threads looked dinky in comparison.


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## Tana (Jan 26, 2014)

There is just something magical about older Surefire P60 series and e-series... (except for build quality and outstanding CS)... you either love it or don't... 

Later models (like 6PX - especially those that pre-flash when turn on low)... hm... no comment...


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## tgil (Feb 1, 2014)

Thank You! I was recently made aware that my post was moved (thanks for the heads up from Norm). I am quite pleased to see the informative responses.

I guess now it's on to the surefire website.


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## Cerealand (Feb 1, 2014)

tgil said:


> Thank You! I was recently made aware that my post was moved (thanks for the heads up from Norm). I am quite pleased to see the informative responses.
> 
> I guess now it's on to the surefire website.



The current generation of surefire lights are quite different from what I like. I prefer the Z,C,E, and M series SF lights.


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## marinemaster (Feb 1, 2014)

My opinion is that there is no other light more reliable than 6P Twisty with a Malkoff dropin. 6P twisty is as reliable as they come. The threads are thick and so is the body. Being a twisty really there is no place of failure of the actual body. If you take out the batteries and the light engine say an LED (not incan) the body itself is stone reliable. I never had a Twisty switch fail. Ever. Of course batteries could fail and the LED module could fail. But the body itself never will. Malkoff has proven itself same as reliable. So there you have it SF + ML = Extreme reliability. 
To me the absolute most important feature is Reliability before anything else. Nothing else matters as much in a light. The MOST important thing for a flashlight is to turn on every time it needs to be used without ever failing.
That is what SF offers.


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## mbw_151 (Feb 4, 2014)

For me, it's the ability to acquire the parts to assemble exactly what I want. Maybe it's a Z2 with a M61neutral for a security application or a C2 with a M361neutral for general use or a 9P with a M61NLL for camping or a C3 with a M60W for fog in the boat..... You get the idea, assembling lights for specific applications. With any other lights, you just hope it fits your needs or you need a machine shop, a bunch of parts, a strong electrical background and lots of time


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## tonywalker23 (Feb 5, 2014)

I remember at my cwp class in 2005 the teacher talking about a $100 flashlight he bought. Years later when I got into 'tactical' stuff I remember him saying that and looked up flashlights online. After some searching I came upon Surefire. After some saving I got an e2d led defender. Then an eb1. Then bought several quarks that were clearanced. Then sold everything and started all over. Now waiting on a defender ultra, another backup, and outdoorsman to arrive 
There's nothing like holding a Surefire in your hand. Even my wife can tell the difference when holding one. The quality and build are there. 


And hope the tax refund arrives before the Amex bill


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## adamkin (Feb 5, 2014)

I never understand people complaining about Surefire prices... you can find used 6Ps for around $45 pretty regularly. With Surefire's quality and warranty, I am never afraid to buy a used one.


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## Fusion_m8 (Feb 5, 2014)

dna89 said:


> Aren't there other lights out with the same or superior specs @ half the cost???



That is exactly right! But when you make products for customers who demand only the best, because of what is at stake, products have to be built up to a standard, rather than down to a price. Surefire is not interested in dominating market share through having the most sales, their goal is to build products that are the best and most reliable, even if that means having only 1% of the flashlight market. Building products that are proven to be the best there is takes a lot of time, effort and money. Would those other flashlight companies who build "brighter and fancier looking flashlights at half the cost" spend as much time, effort and money to ensure that their products would withstand harsh physical and environmental treatment and still perform as expected?


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## Aaron1100us (Feb 5, 2014)

I srarted tgis hobby wih a surefire G2. 65 lumens and I thought it was great. That was 10 years ago. 

Then I upgraded and bought a surefire M3 250 lumens for $250. Ended up sellung the M3 and haven't used the G2 for several years now.


Surefire was great and worth the price 10 years ago. But with the advancement of LEDs and reliable good flashligts from China, I couldn't come up with a reason to buy more surefire lights. 

My solarforce L2P with the same HAIII anodizing as surefire puts out 1000 lumens and was under $100. Just as durable as surefire. Surefires are great lights, just way over priced for what else you can get thats just as good or better. 

If surefire put out a sub $100 light that was 1000+ lumens, I'd buy it. Haven't checked their website for a while, maybe they do now?

Just checked their site. The M3 is now 800 lumens and $430, yikes. Another thing, most of their lights use cr123 batteries. Most other companies use the better 18650 batteries.


One light they have is called a UBR Invictus. 800 lumens and $770.  No flashlight should be almost a grand, thats just silly.


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## N/Apower (Feb 5, 2014)

dna89 said:


> Ladies & Gentlemen, Being a bit new to the flashlight world. I'm curious, what makes Surefire lights so special.( I have noticed many prefer them here ) To me, they seem a bit costly ....Aren't there other lights out with the same or superior specs @ half the cost???


Purpose built.
Awesome warranty.
Unique materials and quality and product results (CoC/TIR/etc.)

Their TIR weapon lights are amazing.


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## tonywalker23 (Feb 5, 2014)

Years ago I was a huge apple fanboy, actually worked there pt a few years ago. Same thing sorta, not the cheapest computers, doesn't have the latest bells and whistles usually, but rock solid performance. Sure don't have the greatest market share but jobs once said making a $500 computer wasn't in their DNA (then they did with these mini). 

My interest, apple, Surefire, and cambridge bibles. 

All come in excellent packaging, box within a box
And all have that 'new' smell when opening them up. Can't describe it but I remember my first leather cambridge bible, I remember how my first Mac smelt, and the Surefire box as well (nyogel?)

All have meticulous attention to details.


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## Monocrom (Feb 5, 2014)

Aaron1100us said:


> Surefire was great and worth the price 10 years ago. But with the advancement of LEDs and reliable good flashlights from China, I couldn't come up with a reason to buy more surefire lights.



I have numerous flashlights from too many different brands to count. Both from American based companies as well as Chinese ones. I've yet to encounter a Chinese light that had the same level of reliability as the SureFires I own. I like my Fenix L0D rebel 80. It works very well. Beats out other Made in China lights in terms of reliability. Does it perform just as well as my SureFire lights? No.



> My solarforce L2P with the same HAIII anodizing as surefire puts out 1000 lumens and was under $100. Just as durable as surefire. Surefires are great lights, just way over priced for what else you can get that's just as good or better.



I've owned two Solarforce lights. The L2P was nice. Then again, not surprising since it was a 6P clone. Prices can obviously be kept down and passed along to consumers if another company invests their own money into R&D. Solarforce has no R&D costs to cover. Of course their offerings are going to be cheaper. When it comes to R&D regarding the SF 6P, everyone says the same thing. That it's just a tube, a tailcap, and a bezel. Well, for quite a few years; no one else thought up that flashlight design. Mostly there was full-sized [email protected] for output, and the Mini-Mag for ease of carry. 

Not saying Solarforce does this, but it's the worst kept secret in the industry that one of the reasons why quite a few Made in China brands are able to charge so little for their lights is due to employees being paid slave-wages. If you don't have to pay your employees a decent standard of living, you can absolutely pass those savings onto your customers. 

With the two Solarforce lights I bought, when Solarforce decides to just blatantly copy a good design; they often get it right. My L2P was quite good. As good as my 6P? Nope. The Andonizing was rough, there were sloppy machine as well as tool marks inside the light. It just didn't feel like a high quality light. The only thing about it that was actually better than my 6P was the bezel retaining ring. It wasn't plastic, and could easily be swapped out for an even better S.S. retaining ring. (Honestly, I wish SF had that.) Overall though, it wasn't a Poor man's SureFire that was just as good in terms of quality as a 6P. I ended up giving it away.

My other Solarforce light was an L600 model. Absolute piece of junk! It actually incorporated shaped cork as a vital piece in the construction of the light. Yup, cork! Ran on two 18650s. Died on me while patrolling a tank farm at work. I pulled out my back-up light and finished up my patrol. I liked the concept but the execution was completely substandard. Ended up buying a custom Leef body, then tracked down the parts I needed to basically make a SureFire M4 that could run off of two 18650s. (Including the right lamp from Lumens Factory.) A quality version of my crappy Solarforce L600. (It's such a piece of crap that I can't even bring myself to give it away. Just wouldn't be right to give that headache to a fellow flashaholic.) Was my custom bodied M4 cheap? Nope! Cost quite a bit. But then again, real quality always does. I can't even rely on my L600 for one patrol inside a tank farm. My M4 can be relied upon for years of reliable service. (I've already owned it for quite a few years.) 



> Just checked their site. The M3 is now 800 lumens and $430, yikes. Another thing, most of their lights use cr123 batteries. Most other companies use the better 18650 batteries.



With SureFire, you get actual lumen output numbers. Not that B.S. emitter lumens numbers that you get literally with every Chinese brand since none of them want to invest in an integrating sphere for measuring actual output. You're not getting 1000 lumens out of that Solarforce. Once again, as an American company, SureFire pays its employees a decent standard of living. SureFire has actual R&D costs to cover. (I have a hard time thinking of reverse engineering of a competitor's product to be a legit R&D expense.) 

Most companies from China don't use 18650s. Quite a few use CR123 primaries and other types of batteries. Including AA and AAAs. As for 18650s being better, that's subjective. CR123 primaries and 18650s, and similar rechargeable cells, are no joke. The dangers involved with CR123 primaries can be greatly reduced by using quality cells and then disposing of them properly. 18650s?... You take a risk every time you charge them up. And unfortunately, quite a few members cheap out when it comes to the cells and the charger. There's more risk involved with 18650s. 




> One light they have is called a UBR Invictus. 800 lumens and $770.  No flashlight should be almost a grand, that's just silly.



Years ago, many said the same thing regarding the then new SureFire M6's price. Folks bought it anyway. I've got one too. It's just an excellent light. Some bought it to collect. Others, to use.


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## JeremyS (Feb 11, 2014)

I'm also reletively new to lights, so I can appreceate the draw to Surefire--and subsequent sticker-shock. I'm anxiousely awaiting an Oveready P6, and I have an older P6 that I brought back to life with a Malkoff M61LL. I would agree that it's the modular ("Lego") qualities of the older Surefire lines that keep me in the hunt for them (i.e. C series, P series, E series). There are so many parts available for those lights, I doubt they will ever become obsolete. In particular, the P6 has a mind-blowing array of upgrades out there. I'm currently in the hunt for some of the smaller E series lights for EDC.


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## IMightBeWrong (Feb 15, 2014)

Lots of great lights out there. I like SureFire as well as others.

What I love about SureFire: The two stage tailcaps, the TIR optics for great throw, and the two way pocket clips. They're DEAD SIMPLE lights and the setup of the EB1 works very well for my purposes.

What I don't care for: The newer ones have greenish tints, crummy regulation, and some of them have UI issues. The older ones had better quality IMO and you'll find that sentiment echoed here and elsewhere.

But overall, I like them.

I also really like LensLight - Great tint and adjustable.

Dark Sucks lights are very, very nice.

Peak is another one I really like. Good optics and great customer service. Robyn, the president of the company, actually delivered a light to me in person and took care of an issue I had in person as well. Great lady. I'm thinking of picking up another Peak very soon, and my Logan gets a lot of use - Especially from my wife.

I have a bias toward American lights, but there are plenty of cheaper lights I wouldn't hate to use as well.

But in the end, SureFire rates up there with the rest of these guys in my book. It loses out in some areas, but it has a better throw than any of them and the two-stage switch and dual pocket clip are awesome features that I wish EVERY light had as options.


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## LightJaguar (Feb 17, 2014)

I sold a new incan Surefire C2 to some sort of state employee the other day. Seems like he was in law enforcement. He had been bugging me about the light since December but I was on a long vacation. When I got back he kept on calling and texting me. I told him that the Surefire that he saw was a C3 and not a C2. He wanted a C2 badly seems like he lost his government issued one and had to return one. 
He thought that my asking price of $90 was too much for a "stupid light" in his own words that he could find cheaper ones on ebay. I told him to go ahead since I didn't have any used ones and didn't really want to sell it anyways. I even referred him to the CPF marketplace and told him that he might spot a used one for cheaper but I had my doubts. 
After a few days he called me again and told me he wanted to buy mine but was wondering if I had an LED one. I told him that yea I had an LED but it was my personal one and not for sale. He asked me to sell to him I told him I'll think about it. I told him that the P60L was long gone so it would not do him any good. His comment was "you gutted it? why? so you took it out?" I was like yea the P60L is old and very dim by today's standards. I told him the LED drop in there costs me about $70 (a tripple Nichia) one and I wold not include it in the sale. He seemed very confused by all this and could not comprehend why the C2s where so expensive and why I would collect them. 
I told him well you could buy a Honday Civic and it would serve you good or you could buy a muscle car and upgrade it how you want it and have a nice car. He still didn't get it and I was tired of arguing with him over a flashlight that I didn't want to sell in the first place. 
So finally he decided to meet up locally at night. I handed over the C2 and he was like ok yea that's what I need. Then I showed him my personal C2L with a red FM35 filter. He was like wow what did you do to your flashlight it looks all tac out. Then he turn it on and was amazed by the output. He was like "wow look at that it's so bright Jesus!" He was very very impressed by it. 
Then he turned his plain old incan that he had just bought and said "well that looks dim now!"
We parted ways then he called me when I got home and started all sorts of questions. Where can I find that drop in? What if I want rechargeable? So much for the "stupid light"


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## TrapperXX (Feb 18, 2014)

MatthewSB said:


> ...Yes, but they aren't nearly as reliable. For some people, whose lives, and the lives of others, depend on their tools' reliability, it's worth the extra cost and lack of neat but unncessary features for the Surefire.
> 
> People have had trouble with Surefires, but your chances of failure with a Surefire seem to be way less likely than with just about any Chinese light. If you do have a problem with a Surefire, they fix it promptly and painlessly. My E1B tailcap had a 'sticky' button, so they mailed me a new one without any proof that I even own the light and didn't require me to send the old one back.
> 
> ...





Brasso said:


> Surefires work. They have simple UI's. The best customer service there is if needed.
> 
> They aren't as flashy and don't have all the neat features of some of other lights, but those other lights will most likely fail within 1 to 2 years of actual use. You can pass Surefires on to your grandchildren. Surefire has started to make lower priced "consumer" lights that may not be as bombproof as their professional/military line of lights, but you get what you pay for. There are multiple threads asking "Why should I get an LX2 when the Fenix TK11 is just as good and half the price?" The answer is that in about a year you're going to be asking how to fix your TK11".
> 
> ...



*For Me, these two posts say it all. I like the best for reliability. 
*


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## callmaster (Feb 19, 2014)

I love their batteries, not so much their lights  SC1, SC2 and SC3 are pretty sweet too. Best mobile storages out there!


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## Stockhouse13 (Feb 19, 2014)

When you pick up one of their non Nitrolon models, the quality of the knurling's texture and fit reminds me why I they are still the best. Pick up an empty 6p and play with it. Pick up empty Solarforce or Streamlight and play with it.


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## JedSmith (Feb 20, 2014)

A Surefire 6Z was my first tactical flashlight and I still have it. I've installed a Malkoff drop-in. 
I have other flashlights that are brighter and have more features, but the 6Z is still a very solid light and as tough and reliable as they come.


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## LightJaguar (Feb 21, 2014)

Well the warranty and service is outstanding. Just came back from the Surefire Mecca in Fountain Valley and had an old C2 that I bought serviced. The switch spring was broken and the lamp was burned. The service tech guy was very friendly too my light apart cleaned the gaskets, the threads, put some Nyogel and a few other things. Also replaced the old broken switch with a new clicky one, got new batteries and a new P60 lamp. 
Also took me to a room in the lobby and showed me some new flashlight and old ones. Looks like they have produced a lot of lights with Logos on them so collectors have their worked cut out for them. Wish I could have taken a picture. 
Saw an E2D LED that looks sick. Felt like I was in Disneyland.


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## skyfire (Feb 22, 2014)

all of my surefires are either E-series or p60. so besides what has already been mentioned such as the warranty, quality etc etc.

i like that surefires have very a simple UI. single mode is good, but 2 modes is ideal for me. a good low and decent high. the dual-stage momentary is ingenious. and their rotary control design is still the best even though it came out many years before anybody else. (i still havent tried a HDS rotary).

surefires bezel up clip. its small and doesnt get in the way with its grip comfort. i also like bezel up carry with lights that have its switch on the tail end. it just makes more sense to me to carry it that way.

surefire's grip ring. once you go grip ring, its hard to go back. :twothumbs


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## WDR65 (Feb 23, 2014)

I got into Surefire when their lights were still primarily incandescent. At that time they had the cleanest beam shape of any light that I had ever used and the E2e had a great amount of output for it's size. Now I buy them primarily because of the TIR optics. The newest ones mimic good reflector based lights with a decent spill beam but longer throw. 
The EB1 that I carry most nights now enables me to have a true pocket spotlight that I couldn't have imagined having a few years ago. 

While others have mentioned both the build quality and warranty I would like to add one more thing. The regulation on certain models is very impressive. IIRC I'm still on the original batteries in my E2L-A and I use it fairly often each week. 

Now don't get me wrong, I do use other brands a good bit. Princeton Tec for my headlamps, Fenix and 4sevens for my AAA EDC lights and a variety of others for different things. If I'm going outside after dark though a Surefire is usually in one of my pocket, they are just my go to primary lights.


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## EldoEsq (Feb 24, 2014)

hoop762 said:


> I've got an old 6P incan I use around the house for whatever I may happen to need it for. When I hold it, it almost bleeds quality. It feels solid and good in the hand, almost like I could hammer nails with it. It really is a thing of beauty and I've found the reliability to be excellent.
> 
> With all that in mind, when I'm on duty, I don't carry it. For a few reasons... its heavy and I can't pocket carry comfortably. With some of my other lights I get twice the output AND twice the run time (even if I were to drop in an led upgrade). My foreign made lights have proven themselves to be reliable when lives literally depend on them.
> 
> ...



I absolutely agree with this 100%. I have a bunch of Surefires that I LOVE, but on my duty rig is $15 Ultrafire. I always SWORE that I would never carry anything but a Surefire UNTIL I lost one rolling around. Losing a $125 light STINGS!!! At $15, my Ultrafire puts out alot of lumens and has been very durable. I have another as a backup, so I have $30 into my setup. For the past 2 years, the lights go on every time I push the button...even after drops, drags, kicks, etc. Also been used as a defensive weapon more than once.

Same with knives...I have ZT, Benchmade, Spyderco...but carry an Enlan on duty! 

Again...for EDC, I carry my nicer things as there is much less risk that they will get damaged or lost.


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## BauXite (Feb 26, 2014)

I'm opposite of the OP, I started with Surefire and just bought my first Chinese light(s). I have a couple different Surefires, L2, C2L, x300... ...that's all I think. I also have a few Streamlights.

I wanted a rechargeable Strion sized light. I ended up deciding that a 18650 cell light was what I wanted. If Surefire made a 18650 light I would have bought it, if they come out with one tomorrow I'll buy it. I ended up buying a Klarus XT11 and a Fenix TK12, the Fenix hasn't arrived yet but so far I like the Klarus.

Surefire makes good stuff and they're made in the US. I'm willing to pay more, sometimes a lot more, for a quality US made product.


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## RGB_LED (Feb 26, 2014)

Fenix (4 models): one older P3D with known issue using RCRs
Jetbeam (6 models): one failure upon arrival, repaired by online e-tailer and no failures since
NiteCore (4 models): no failures
Solarforce (2 models): no failures
Sunwayman (2 models): no failures
Surefire (5 models): no failures
Zebralight (4 models): no failures

Reliability: I'm lucky that I have had only one lemon with all the lights that I have owned. Reliability has not been a major factor with other lights. LED dropins have proven to be a bit less reliable but that's not the fault of the light.

Innovation: Surefire was indeed state-of-the-art and, some may argue their current offerings are as well. But: I don't like TIR optics, I don't usually limit myself to just one brand and I like to look at the features of other brands especaily those with state-of-the-art features and / or LEDs. Many of them surpass SF in time-to-market and lower price.

Price: Aside from the current 6- and some E-series lights, I can't personally justify purchasing some of the newer SF lights due to their prices. So, I look to other brands that have the latest emitters or features. Or, I look for older 6- and C-series on the secondary market as they are still fairly reasonable and just add upgrades.

Interchangeability / Ability to Mod: I have to admit that I really appreciate my 6-, C- and E-series SF lights. The main reasons are: they are well-designed, the ability to take standard D26 / P60 dropins (6 and C), interchangebility with others in their model-line (see: SF Lego) and some CPF'ers and others have brought forward amazing LED dropins and after-market mods to these lights to keep them up-to-date. These lights were so thoughtfully designed that, with upgrades, they are still as relevant today as the day they were first introduced. 

Is there still a Surefire allure? For me, I will still look to other lights to push the envelope of innovation but I still greatly appreciate the older SF models, with their modular approach and ability to mod, they are great platforms for keeping up to date. Sadly however, I personally can't say the same for the newer models as they appear to be moving away from the ability to add dropins and seem to have more sealed LED heads these days so, time will tell if they are as reliable / or still popular once new emitters / features come to pass. My two cents. YMMV.


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## square_cpf (Feb 28, 2014)

My first surefire is the legendary C2.
The first time I hold it in my hand,oooh it really feels.....special.
Then I kept looking to find more,and more,and more....
I'd better stop now before I get too far.:sigh:


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## cland72 (Feb 28, 2014)

Here's a story kind of relevant to this thread:

I was in OK a couple of weeks ago with 9 other people for a weekend getaway at a cabin. I had my SF Fury, and my 6P w/ EDC+ triple XPG2. Earlier this year, I gifted a 6PX Tactical to a good friend who was on the trip. We were the only two people with quality illumination tools. A few of us went for a walk in the woods and he couldn't stop gushing about how great the light was, and how much he liked it.

Very cool to see that a Surefire (even one that most of us here don't pay much attention to) changed the perception of what one person perceived to be a "good" flashlight. Everyone else there had multiple 5mm LED flashlights, and if we didn't watch it, our Surefires tended to "walk away" on their own that weekend...


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## Grifter9931 (Jun 22, 2014)

So I will add whatever I can to this thread as well.
Are surefire lights cheap?..
Do they output the most light?..
Are they the prettiest?..
Are they the lightest?..
The answer is No to all of those questions.

The reason I view the Surefire brand as something I will continue to support, is simply because it feels like a quality product. Performs like a quality product, has the backing of a quality product "warranty", reliable like a quality product should be..

I went cabin camping this winter with some friends, who are not gear geeks. Cabin camping when its -10 and then gets down to -30 with the wind chill is an interesting experience. I had my two lights in my pack, my M6 and my L5. 

We had to pack our gear in or get a ride on a snow go. The cars were parked about 1 mile away from the cabin, and as things go someone always forgets a bag behind, when packing things out in a hurry. I had my L5 on me as a back up when I went for a walk back to the cars because folks left some stuff behind. I am a gear geek, I like nice stuff. I buy the best I can and I generally get a bunch of flak because I have nice gear that cost a bunch. I really could care less what most people think about how much my sleeping bag cost or how much my gloves cost. 

So the people I am camping with have different priorities than I do when it comes to disposable income. I like cool gear. 

So on our walk to the car, an acquaintance of mine starts asking me how much my flash light costs etc. I really could not remember T.B.H. So as we are walking along the trail back to the cars he keeps asking me and using his home depot light and keeps explaining to me that his light was a better buy than my light etc. Which in hindsight, maybe true. I believe his light cost him in the neighborhood of $30-40. I am almost sure my light was in the $200 neighborhood and is a few years older and doesn't output as much as his light. 

So while he is shining his light down to the cars, it flickers. It's cold out, about -15. I am bundled up like a snowman and I am keeping my light in my chest pocket so it is pretty warm in there. His light begins to flicker and turn off about 3/4 of the way to the parked cars. He starts banging, complaining and whatever else people do when stuff isn't going the way they envisioned it. So we get to the cars when it's almost dark. We jump in our cars and warm up a bit, so everything thaws out. 

We begin our walk back to the cabin and my friends light is working, but fails within 50 yards of our trek back. I whip out my light because its dark and cold and me and the girls want to get back to the kinda warm cabin (different story for a different day). So on the walk back, I am last and walking to the side and just throwing the beam ahead so no one falls or gets hurt. We get back to the cabin in one piece. No one dies or breaks anything.

So there is a main cabin and a smaller cottage, I am in the smaller warmer cottage. I walk the folks to the main cabin and I get myself back to my cottage. The following day, a friend of mine comes over and asks me to borrow my flashlight that works because she forgot her spare inhaler in the car. And she doesn't want to walk down to the car without a flashlight that will crap out on her. Apparently my friends light crapped out again on the walk over to the cottage and he didn't want to come over to ask to borrow my flash light and was going to risk going down the trail in the dark.



Thankfully, she had some common sense and came over, he got mad and went back to the main cabin. And three girls were going to walk down the trail by themselves. I end up going with them, and take both my lights. We use them to go down the trail and get back safely. 

After our camping trip I get about 5 emails asking the brand of light I use and what I would recommend etc. I explained to the folks that I like the Surefire brand, it's expensive but they work. They already had a point of reference. I ended up going flash light shopping with some people that weekend. Everyone got surefires, everyone understood the price point. And I tried to recommend other stuff, and it basically went like this..
"What brand of flash light do you have? Cool, I am getting that brand. It worked in those conditions, it'll work in any condition" 

My next purchase will be a Quark something or the other. I just want my stuff to work and have piece of mind that it will when I need it to. Most people won't ever push their gear to the extremes. I kind of do with my mine own gear unintentionally. The surefire brand has been rock solid in my opinion and it's something I trust for myself and definitely trust to recommend to other people who aren't gear junkies.


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## Rifter (Jun 22, 2014)

Honestly they were good 15 years ago but im not so sure anymore that they are as good as they used to be. Dont get me wrong i have spend over $1500 in surefire lights/accesories/lamps/batteries over the years and consider them a worthwhile investment still to this day but i probably wouldn't drop that kind of cash on them if i had to do it over starting today.

Ive just recently come back to flashlights as a hobby and am learning about some of the newer companies that have come out and some of them seem to have incredibly durable lights as well making the surefires seem rather over priced. Even 10 years ago there were companies making as durable of lights as surefire(Innova and PeakLED come to mind immediately)

That said im contemplating a P60 drop in purchase soon and even though i Already own a M2, G2, and a 6P im contemplating buying a brand new 6P just for this drop in


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## cullen.salisbury (Aug 18, 2015)

New surefire


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## sween1911 (Aug 18, 2015)

Ah, my favorite topic....

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-fascination&p=2191414&viewfull=1#post2191414


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## recDNA (Aug 18, 2015)

I have lost interest until Surefire provides led and tint info and actually delivers it. I do still enjoy my Surefire incandescent lights.


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## levi333 (Aug 18, 2015)

When your life depends on them, I'd go with Surefire. I have total confidence in their weapon lights (my X300/Ultras have had no issues on several handgun/rifles) and if I were a cop that's definitely what I'd use.

For my EDC/other light obsession, they just don't offer the size/output/battery/price options like others. In that case I really like Fenix and have had great luck with them. Zero issues with their lights over the last 6-8years, and have EDC'd a PD20/PD22UE the last several.


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## more_vampires (Aug 18, 2015)

In an opinion thread, price is either no object or a deal breaker. 

SF makes small EDC lights (Titan AAAx1 http://www.surefire.com/titan-a.html) and big honking machinegun lights, pretty much everything in between.

Will I buy more Surefire? Yep. Even I think that their wristlights are wickedly overpriced. There are 4 knockoff brands already. Buy the knockoffs? Maybe. Not one of them will have SF's NO BS warranty.

Buy once, cry once? Is it "buy the 4 knockoffs and after they are all junkpiled, THEN buy the SF 2211 like you should have to start with?":shrug:


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## levi333 (Aug 18, 2015)

I think calling other light MFG's junk is a bit much. Yes, a lot of them ARE junk but not all. Chinese MFGs have come a long way and I've been very happy with the Fenix and Zebralights I've bought the last few years.

Also, just because Surefire offers a small (Titan Plus) light doesn't mean it does what I want. I want single handed quick operation, no twist to turn on and cycle through to highest mode! Otherwise it looks like a great light and I'd definitely consider picking it up.


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## etc (Aug 18, 2015)

AnAppleSnail said:


> Here are some helpful CPF searches. Not that your question isn't worth discussion, just that we've had a lot of related discussions.
> 
> Surefire Cost
> 
> ...



Yeah, old links from 2008 and 2009, only 10,000 years ago in Internet time.
He wants to start a new one, so what? Let's get it going.

Things change all the time. New lights are introduced by Surefire and the competition. Technology changes. The economy changes.


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## more_vampires (Aug 18, 2015)

etc said:


> Yeah, old links from 2008 and 2009, only 10,000 years ago in Internet time.
> He wants to start a new one, so what? Let's get it going.
> Things change all the time. New lights are introduced by Surefire and the competition. Technology changes. The economy changes.


The irony of that is that I feel that the 6p /p60 was the best thing ever to come out of Surefire; it is future-proof and still valid.

Heck, I got another couple of high power p60 dropins just the other day. I know of no other maker that has or has had something beautiful like that.

Any noobz who don't have a P60 flashlight, you don't know what you're missing!


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## etc (Aug 18, 2015)

dna89 said:


> Ladies & Gentlemen, Being a bit new to the flashlight world. I'm curious, what makes Surefire lights so special.( I have noticed many prefer them here ) To me, they seem a bit costly ....Aren't there other lights out with the same or superior specs @ half the cost???



Surefire is a get product but not a great value. There are other lites out there that do the same thing for 2/3 of the price. Although in all fairness, the competition has been going up in price considerably from where it was 10 years ago, for example Fenix which is an import but an "Alpha" brand.

I have a dozen lites but only one genuine Surefire. I got a G2X nitrolon light on sale for 30 bucks. That's as much as I will spend on a Surefire.

It's more cost-effective to build one yourself. Lego it. 9P body, or a 6P body. IMO the most reasonable drop-in module is a Malkoff but there are tons out there, both good and less so. If you don't want to Lego it, look for a used Surefire say on Ebay and don't pay huge retail costs.

I don't have a single lite that costs $300 or even close to that. I think if I wanted to get a super torch with 10,000 lumens I still woulnd't buy Surefire, one of these monster lites they sell. But the gov cannot do that. The gov is a major player in their marketing scheme. An import alpha or beta brand targets price shoppers here, Surefire does not target price shoppers. Gov doesn't care about price, they spend your money.


What makes surefire special is that they test their lites for any problems and release a more or less bulletproof product. The downside of that is they cannot upgrade the module due to government certifications. It's too expensive to re-certify so when you buy a Surefire, you may get a module that's a year old or older and technically obsolete while when you buy an import Alpha brand, you get a newer module for less funds invested but maybe a slightly less bulletproof product.

Case in point, Surefire hang on to the incan lites years after the more progressive brands abandoned incans. Probably to support the existing customer base. These gov agencies don't care about incan efficiency or runtime or how much spare cells cost - it's all supplied to them by you with your tax funds.

But take a Surefire 6P and put an import Alpha brand. Look at the threads with the tailcap removed. Just something that simple is better in Surefire, they massively overbuild and over-engineer lites. 

The best of both worlds is to get a surefire host and stick the latest greatest module you can find. You won't save any coin but will have the best lite out there or at least most cost-effective one.


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## etc (Aug 18, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> The irony of that is that I feel that the 6p /p60 was the best thing ever to come out of Surefire; it is future-proof and still valid.
> 
> Heck, I got another couple of high power p60 dropins just the other day. I know of no other maker that has or has had something beautiful like that.
> 
> Any noobz who don't have a P60 flashlight, you don't know what you're missing!



I EDC'ed 6P format for almost 10 years. I started with 2xAA lites like many people here but eventually migrated into the 123 or 18650 world.


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## etc (Aug 18, 2015)

levi333 said:


> When your life depends on them, I'd go with Surefire. I have total confidence in their weapon lights (my X300/Ultras have had no issues on several handgun/rifles) and if I were a cop that's definitely what I'd use.
> 
> For my EDC/other light obsession, they just don't offer the size/output/battery/price options like others. In that case I really like Fenix and have had great luck with them. Zero issues with their lights over the last 6-8years, and have EDC'd a PD20/PD22UE the last several.




I have had two different Fenixes fail on me. Granted it was in 2007 or such but I still don't want to experiment with them anymore. It was the first generation of L2D I think. They have multiple modes as you know. Well one went into a single, weird morse-code like mode, flashing randomly. I exchanged it for another. It also failed. I got a replacement and sold it NIB. Sadly, an incan Surefire 6P would be more reliable than that as old as it is. I will admit that at the time, the L2D was an impressively massive lumen output and very high on the "wow" factor. I got the "wow" factor every time I ran it. 200 lumens out of 2xAA was, and still is a big deal out of a 2xAA light. The 2x123 was even more impressive. I am not sure if any Surefire lights generated the "wow" factor back in 2007. But today?

I've had zero failures with Malkoffs however. If you never want a failure, get a single mode light with a bulletproof module and a twisty tailcap. You just eliminated all possible failures. It just works and works.


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## dogfacedsoldier (Aug 19, 2015)

Please note that I view flashlights as a tool. 

Surefire simply holds the standard. I know what I will get with a Surefire. I can depend of it. It is expensive. Yes. Piece of mind is priceless, especially in a combat environment, or on the street (as a cop). I've tooled around with other flashlights, hoping to save a little $$$. In the end, any $$$ saved was quickly lost as the lights failed. 

I do wish Surefire would embrace 16580 batteries…..


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## tab665 (Aug 20, 2015)

etc said:


> Yeah, old links from 2008 and 2009, only 10,000 years ago in Internet time.
> He wants to start a new one, so what? Let's get it going.
> 
> Things change all the time. New lights are introduced by Surefire and the competition. Technology changes. The economy changes.



... says the person quoting a post made over two years ago.

it took me a while to gradually get more and more into surefire. however of the surefires ive owned only one of them was a "current" offering, a M6LT; which is still an amazing light years after its release. other than that my collection has been more or less rehashing surefire's history. a M6 and M4 along with a 6P and 9P bored host from oveready. surefire products do have an allure to them, unfortunately I believe it resides in all their past product. I should also add that with the exeption on the 6P, my other 3 surefire lights are still running incan bulbs.


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## EV_007 (Aug 20, 2015)

Reliability
Build quality
Warranty
Made in USA paying USA wages


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## cland72 (Aug 20, 2015)

tab665 said:


> it took me a while to gradually get more and more into surefire. however of the surefires ive owned only one of them was a "current" offering, a M6LT; which is still an amazing light years after its release. other than that my collection has been more or less rehashing surefire's history. a M6 and M4 along with a 6P and 9P bored host from oveready. surefire products do have an allure to them, unfortunately I believe it resides in all their past product. I should also add that with the exeption on the 6P, my other 3 surefire lights are still running incan bulbs.



I'm in the same boat as you. I'm mostly running pre-2010 Surefires (Z2, 6P, C2, 9P, M4, A2). Exceptions are my E1B, a P2X Fury, and a couple of Scouts. The Fury doesn't get that much use because I don't much care for the slippery grip. It is a GREAT light otherwise, though.

edited to add: I do have a few non-USA made lights: FourSevens Mini123 which is my EDC, an Armytek Barracuda which is my thrower, and a Klarus P1A that I had Vinh mod with a 219A LED which is my airline travel light.


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