# 6000 lm single LED ??? Is it true



## Axkiker (Jul 19, 2010)

Hey I was looking aroudn on ebay for an extremly brite led to use in my underwater project and ran across this

http://cgi.ebay.com/100W-warm-white...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa3076d23


6000 W single LED package.... 

Man LEDS sure have come a long way in the past year... Whats the lowdown on this package.. Any thing good or bad about it

if you were going to use it in an automotive package what type of driver would you use...

Anyone have an idea what kind of heat issues that you have with this package


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## Larbo (Jul 19, 2010)

Unless your project is a submarine you should probably pass, check the specs in it. Its huge.


*DC Forward Voltage (VF): 33.0 ~ 36.0 Vdc*
*DC Forward Current (IF): 3200mA ~ 3500mA*
*Viewing Angle: 120 Degree*
*Intensity Luminous (Iv): 6000LM*
*Color Temperature: 3300~3500K*
*Dimensions: 55X40X4mm*


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## Axkiker (Jul 19, 2010)

Larbo said:


> Unless your project is a submarine you should probably pass, check the specs in it. Its huge.
> 
> 
> *DC Forward Voltage (VF): 33.0 ~ 36.0 Vdc*
> ...


 

Actually the size doesnt matter to me... The way im currently doing things I would need to build 2 housings with multiple leds to get that kind of output. If the specs are true with this led I could use only one and be done...

Now im still not sold that its legit...

If it is legit what kind of driver could I use for an automotive /marine enviroment


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## mvyrmnd (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm wondering is I could DD is from a 36V Printer power adapter... for .99 I'd be willing to blow one up!

EDIT: for $63 shipping, I'm no longer so willing. Bloody ebay sellers cheating the system!


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## Axkiker (Jul 19, 2010)

mvyrmnd said:


> I'm wondering is I could DD is from a 36V Printer power adapter... for .99 I'd be willing to blow one up!
> 
> EDIT: for $63 shipping, I'm no longer so willing. Bloody ebay sellers cheating the system!


 

HAHAHA yeah $63.00 is a little much just to blow up

If they are really 6000lm though its a pretty good deal to me.

My issue is what kind of driver to use for an 12v automotive deal


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## AnAppleSnail (Jul 19, 2010)

mvyrmnd said:


> I'm wondering is I could DD is from a 36V Printer power adapter... for .99 I'd be willing to blow one up!
> 
> EDIT: for $63 shipping, I'm no longer so willing. Bloody ebay sellers cheating the system!



Once you look closely at the picture and realize that he's shipping 100 LEDs (10x10 array) then the shipping is only $0.63 per LED. This is not a Light Emitting Diode, it's an array of them. Also, the "6000 lumens" is a strange claim. Why would a 1 watt LED emit a nice, suspiciously round 60 lumens? That's old technology, probably under lab conditions with some marketing spackled to the gaps. Buy three SST90s, get more output, and save money.

What optics do you think you'd use with this, anyway?


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## Axkiker (Jul 19, 2010)

AnAppleSnail said:


> Once you look closely at the picture and realize that he's shipping 100 LEDs (10x10 array) then the shipping is only $0.63 per LED. This is not a Light Emitting Diode, it's an array of them. Also, the "6000 lumens" is a strange claim. Why would a 1 watt LED emit a nice, suspiciously round 60 lumens? That's old technology, probably under lab conditions with some marketing spackled to the gaps. Buy three SST90s, get more output, and save money.
> 
> What optics do you think you'd use with this, anyway?


 

Okay thats great info and the kind of feedback i need.

Im not really worried if the package has 10 leds or 100 leds. My main concern is in output / current draw and the ability to integrate it into a housing which I can make with ease... So when I saw 6000lm in a single package i was very interested.

Give me some info on the sst90's... im not familiar with them.

As far as optics im not sure. These are going to be in an underwater housing and are to illuminate the surrounding water. So a combination would be great...

Any ideas ???


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## TORCH_BOY (Jul 19, 2010)

$63 shipping, They have lost me.


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## deadrx7conv (Jul 19, 2010)

8000lm for 100w LEDs on ebay. 

Also, there are 300w LEDs on ebay with 15000lm. 

Its an array. Don't care what you call it. My P7 and MCE are arrays too. Single package LED whether 100 or 1 die is still a single LED package.


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## Axkiker (Jul 19, 2010)

deadrx7conv said:


> 8000lm for 100w LEDs on ebay.
> 
> Also, there are 300w LEDs on ebay with 15000lm.
> 
> Its an array. Don't care what you call it. My P7 and MCE are arrays too. Single package LED whether 100 or 1 die is still a single LED package.


 


Yeah I saw that too after I posted this thread... Im not worried how many leds they have in a package as long as its a single package and really produces the advertised lumens...

Plus im lost as to what driver I would need to use...


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## AnAppleSnail (Jul 19, 2010)

Axkiker said:


> Yeah I saw that too after I posted this thread... Im not worried how many leds they have in a package as long as its a single package and really produces the advertised lumens...
> 
> Plus im lost as to what driver I would need to use...



Stated 33.0 ~ 36.0 Vdc. That's a narrow range! I know that Cree white LEDs have a Vf of about 3.2 (XP-G) to 3.7v (XR-E). So it looks like you're driving a series of 10 LEDs, driving 10 such strings. 100 watts at 33v = 3 amps split among those ten strings.


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## Axkiker (Jul 20, 2010)

AnAppleSnail said:


> Stated 33.0 ~ 36.0 Vdc. That's a narrow range! I know that Cree white LEDs have a Vf of about 3.2 (XP-G) to 3.7v (XR-E). So it looks like you're driving a series of 10 LEDs, driving 10 such strings. 100 watts at 33v = 3 amps split among those ten strings.


 

have an idea what driver I would use????

Or where to look.... Back when I was working on this project there was a site that had nothing but drivers. I cant seem to remember what it was though


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## NeSSuS-GTE (Jul 20, 2010)

May I recommend a reputable high-power array from Bridgelux instead?

http://www.newark.com/bridgelux/bxra-c4500-00000/high-brightness-led-arrays/dp/60R6542

Prices are equivalent. But Bridgelux has solid quality and reliability. And realistic output claims.

AND they're made in the USA. If that has any value to you. :thumbsup:


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## alpg88 (Jul 20, 2010)

Axkiker said:


> Anyone have an idea what kind of heat issues that you have with this package


 heat issues, but that can be taken care of with a good heat sink, how big??? i have no clue, but just from dealing with 1,3,5,10w leds, i'll tell you 100w led will need a really good heat sink, best place for that one to use would be underwater light where heat removed quickly, with heat sink\heat path build right.

another issue that is real concern is how long it will keep original brightness, and how long all dies will work, that is something chinese leds are famous for, crappy quality.

you'd be better off with 4 sst90. use search box here to find info on sst90, there are tons of it here.


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## Axkiker (Jul 20, 2010)

NeSSuS-GTE said:


> May I recommend a reputable high-power array from Bridgelux instead?
> 
> http://www.newark.com/bridgelux/bxra-c4500-00000/high-brightness-led-arrays/dp/60R6542
> 
> ...


 

Ohh heck yea im down with that option.... Made in the USA is always a priority if possible...

So am I correct in saying that this is an led package which contains multiple led's... Im just currious how it all works.

Looks like I may have to experiment


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## Axkiker (Jul 20, 2010)

NeSSuS-GTE said:


> May I recommend a reputable high-power array from Bridgelux instead?
> 
> http://www.newark.com/bridgelux/bxra-c4500-00000/high-brightness-led-arrays/dp/60R6542
> 
> ...


 

any idea where to get a dc to dc driver for this ????

Thanks


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## alpg88 (Jul 20, 2010)

this should work, 
http://www.dimensionengineering.com/anyvolt3.htm


keep us posted, i too like this idea, i have lantern with 5" reflector, i would love to shoehorn this led into it, but now i have few other projects at hand, need to finish those first.
let us know how it works out.


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## Axkiker (Jul 20, 2010)

alpg88 said:


> this should work,
> http://www.dimensionengineering.com/anyvolt3.htm
> 
> 
> ...


 

Awsome!!!!

I wonder if there is a supply that would allow me to run 2 of these puppies????


Wasnt there a guy on here who was building power supplies.... For some reason I thought he had a website where he advertised everything he built....

That was over a year ago though


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## alpg88 (Jul 20, 2010)

Axkiker said:


> Awsome!!!!
> 
> I wonder if there is a supply that would allow me to run 2 of these puppies????
> 
> ...


 

i,ve never seen anyone here build 24v supplies

google lm338


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## deadrx7conv (Jul 20, 2010)

I just received a 50w LED array.

Since I'm going to be powering it off a 12v deep-cycle marine battery, I will be using an adjustable dc-dc voltage step-up power supply converter.
One of these maybe:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220591444240
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130400051008
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230501341448

With my DMM, I'll dial in the current that I want to use, knowing that it'll vary as my battery voltage varies from 11.5-13.2v. Light will dim as voltage drops. Set it to 50w at 13.2v, and hopefully still have 30+watts of output when the battery shut-off kicks in. 

I probably won't be running the LED at 100%. I'll turn up the voltage to get the output that I'm looking for. Hopefully, this will keep the LED cool and make it last longer. Might have to upgrade to a 100w LED or even a 300w LED one day in the future. 

Some 50w LEDs:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320409420593
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320553874305
100w LED:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280537100596
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400137712953
300w:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360280497121

Miscellaneous:
http://www.satisled.com/Wholesale-20w300w-leds_c22?productsort=4&pagesize=48&sort=8d

AC LED drivers are also plentiful on ebay. Many of the LED arrays can be packaged with an AC driver from the seller. 

I'm considering the larger 80-300w LEDs after reading this thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/89607
You don't have to run an LED at full power. I'm wondering how well the 36v 300w LED will work with direct-drive 12, 18, 24, or a 30v battery pack. Cut the output, improve lm/w efficiency, and lose the driver all together.


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## jason 77 (Jul 20, 2010)

NeSSuS-GTE said:


> May I recommend a reputable high-power array from Bridgelux instead?
> 
> http://www.newark.com/bridgelux/bxra-c4500-00000/high-brightness-led-arrays/dp/60R6542
> 
> ...



beat me to it! LOL.... yeah I wouldn't trust any lumen "outputs" advertised on those Chinese high power LEDs.


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## Axkiker (Jul 20, 2010)

anyone know what optics can be used with the bridgelux ???

thanks


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## Paul Baldwin (Jul 20, 2010)

alpg88 said:


> heat issues, but that can be taken care of with a good heat sink, how big??? i have no clue, but just from dealing with 1,3,5,10w leds, i'll tell you 100w led will need a really good heat sink, best place for that one to use would be underwater light where heat removed quickly, with heat sink\heat path build right.



It appears a large cpu cooler is adequate but you have to make sure the fan doesn't stop! http://www.satistronics.com/high-power-led-heatsink-for-100w-led_p2724.html 
Maybe a premium brand direct touch sink would be up to your underwater application? IIRC Blasterman has experience of various Bridgelux's, he rates them highly and theres some promising results from zxcasd here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/282370

Just remembered seeing this http://cgi.ebay.com.au/60mm-Lens-Reflector-Base-20-100W-LED-Lamp-Blub-/220619316047 someones using one in this thread with a 100W led soon. http://lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24619&st=650


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## Axkiker (Jul 20, 2010)

Paul Baldwin said:


> It appears a large cpu cooler is adequate but you have to make sure the fan doesn't stop! http://www.satistronics.com/high-power-led-heatsink-for-100w-led_p2724.html
> Maybe a premium brand direct touch sink would be up to your underwater application? IIRC Blasterman has experience of various Bridgelux's, he rates them highly and theres some promising results from zxcasd here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/282370
> 
> Just remembered seeing this http://cgi.ebay.com.au/60mm-Lens-Reflector-Base-20-100W-LED-Lamp-Blub-/220619316047 someones using one in this thread with a 100W led soon. http://lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24619&st=650


 

Hey now thats a cool lense with a reflective base...... I also stumbled upon flashlightlense.com... Seem to have some cool lenses.


Im not really worried about the cooling issue. I have a way to vent my housings that allows the water to circulate and cool the emitter...


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## blasterman (Jul 20, 2010)

I honestly don't get what the facination is with these big Semi-knock-off arrays are. They are terribly inefficient, over-rated in terms of lumens, and if you get a warm-white the color will range from green to yellow. The only advantage they have is if you need a primary color. I recently talked Satistronics into making a specialty 10watt royal, but I woulnd't touch their white emitters because they are too expensive.

Also, every time I roll the numbers Bridgelux comes out equal if not ahead in terms of lumens per dollar. You could also config several smaller Bridgelux in parallel to get a lower voltage requirement, which would seem to be the goal with automotive voltage.


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## johndknm (Jul 20, 2010)

I just typed a very long post and it timed out my session 

Rgb 30w array vf 20-36v
Inspiration:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202550

Constant current drivers:
Rcd-24 constant current driver taking a pwm signal
Www.cutter.com.au. Drivers. Recom

Transformers - closest I've seen are www.tortec.com.au 24v garden lighting transformers up to 400w

Thinking 24v 120w transformer, 4. Lights. 3 rcd24 drivers for each array one per colour and a pwm signal from an arduino for each colour?

Branch each light of trunk 10mm cable run along 10m of jetty like garden lights.

Can I run an led below it's vf successfully ? Ie. 24v driving the vf 30-36 v colours? (newbie)

350-1000ma rating but I was thinking of under driving at 700ma or so?

I've seen the lights in action but they are thousands to deploy.


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## Axkiker (Jul 20, 2010)

johndknm said:


> I just typed a very long post and it timed out my session
> 
> Rgb 30w array vf 20-36v
> Inspiration:
> ...


 

Well you kinda lost me part way through that however what I think you are wanting is a rgb type setup which changes color

I would also like this setup however at first im sticking with 1 color at a time.. When you get to messing with different colors you start getting into different lumen output and a different beast all together...

I think one of those links is to a chip which will enable color change... is this by using 1 rgb led or 3 different leds... I have thought about both scenerios


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## johndknm (Jul 21, 2010)

For 1. Rgb led I think u ideally need 3 wires with constant current as per specs. 24v and two 30-36v

The driver I linked supplies constant current at eg 750ma. It also has a wire to take a pulse width mod signal to allow dimming on that channel

I'm thinking one of these for each colour 

Feed the constant current driver with suitable power?


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## kengps (Jul 21, 2010)

I think you all have strayed off the path a bit....Yes, there is a 6000 lm single chip emitter. It's basically four SST-90's arranged ala MCE. It's called CSM-360.

http://www.luminus.com/stuff/conten..._csm_360_w_product_datasheet_illumination.pdf


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## Axkiker (Jul 21, 2010)

kengps said:


> I think you all have strayed off the path a bit....Yes, there is a 6000 lm single chip emitter. It's basically four SST-90's arranged ala MCE. It's called CSM-360.
> 
> http://www.luminus.com/stuff/conten..._csm_360_w_product_datasheet_illumination.pdf


 

Yes I saw the csm-360 however it just seems that the better bang for the buck is the Bridgelux setup.


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## monkeyboy (Jul 21, 2010)

You won't achieve any throw with the Bridgelux as the emitting dice are spread out over a relatively large area. The CSM-360 features 4 large emitting dice close together. I know you don't need that much throw for automotive applications, but it would be much harder to shape the beam of the bridgelux.


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## Axkiker (Jul 21, 2010)

monkeyboy said:


> You won't achieve any throw with the Bridgelux as the emitting dice are spread out over a relatively large area. The CSM-360 features 4 large emitting dice close together. I know you don't need that much throw for automotive applications, but it would be much harder to shape the beam of the bridgelux.


 

Its actually for underwater use and totalyl astetic at that.. So im not that worried about the shape of the beam etc...

I just mainly need one bright Mfer that I can throw a reflector and lens on


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## monkeyboy (Jul 21, 2010)

Oh OK I see. If it's just pure flood you're going for then the Bridgelux is as good I guess.


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## Axkiker (Jul 21, 2010)

monkeyboy said:


> Oh OK I see. If it's just pure flood you're going for then the Bridgelux is as good I guess.


 

Yeah dont get me wrong ill put a reflector and lense on it.. However a perfect pattern and throw is not a big deal...


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## Axkiker (Aug 2, 2010)

deadrx7conv said:


> I just received a 50w LED array.
> 
> Since I'm going to be powering it off a 12v deep-cycle marine battery, I will be using an adjustable dc-dc voltage step-up power supply converter.
> One of these maybe:
> ...


 

I sure like what you said about using the 300w 36v led package and dropping the driver all together.... have you tried this yet. This may be a great alternative since I can just run my to batteries in series to make 24v. 

Also can anyone chime in on the risks of running such a setup. I hear all sorts of horror stories about transient voltages etc within an automotive / marine setup.

If the horror stories are correct any thoughts on circuitry to avoid 

thanks


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## Axkiker (Aug 2, 2010)

Okay another quick thought


I was reading the specs on the bridgelux site and see the unit needs a min of 23.5 v and a max of 27. something..

I have the availability of using (2) 12 v batteries in series.

what are the pros and cons of just doing away with the driver all together and running off straight 24v dc.

thanks


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## Axkiker (Aug 3, 2010)

alpg88 said:


> this should work,
> http://www.dimensionengineering.com/anyvolt3.htm
> 
> 
> ...


 

ACtually I was looking through the data sheet and that power supply wont work. Since its a step up transformer the input current will be higher than the output.

I put in the specs and came up with a 5.+ amps of input current needed to supply 2.1 amps of output at 24 V

Someone else may be able to chime in if I did the calculations wrong


thanks


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## alpg88 (Aug 3, 2010)

Axkiker said:


> ACtually I was looking through the data sheet and that power supply wont work. Since its a step up transformer the input current will be higher than the output.


it is step up\down regulator, aka boost buck.


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## HarryN (Aug 3, 2010)

Bridgelux and LEDEngin are pretty reputable local firms. Bridgelux makes their own LEDs (about 10 miles away) and LEDEngin uses Cree die. Both are very good products in those upper power ranges.

Of course, Osram Ostar and some other array makers are pretty decent too.


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## Axkiker (Aug 3, 2010)

alpg88 said:


> it is step up\down regulator, aka boost buck.


 

sorry you are correct it is a regulator not a transformer.

Any thoughts on another product that will work


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