# Safety Warning With Carley-1794 Bulb (Explosion) - New - Photos Taken of 27 Bulbs



## LuxLuthor (Aug 24, 2009)

*Update: Please go to my Post #38 in this thread, where I took closeup images of all my 1794 bulbs, and I believe shows evidence of manufacturer defects.*

This is not intended to cast negative aspersions on Nite, FiveMega, or Carley (well maybe a bit on Carley). Rather this is a public safety warning when inserting/removing these bulbs.

This has never happened to me with any of the incan bulbs I have been dealing with over the last few years, including all those I intentionally overdrove in my destructive testing thread. I know almost all halogen bulbs are under various amounts of high pressure, but after working with at least 250-300 bulbs, I let my guard down, and it scared me because of what could have happened. I regard this as a Carley defect, and just "one of those things."

Anyway, I was holding with a Kleenex and inserting one of the new batch of CL-1794 bulbs that Nite is generously selling here into FM's D26 holder. The pins were perfectly aligned with FM's holder, and as I pushed down (not hard), I noticed a very tiny side piece of the glass stem split off to the outside when it was about 80% seated. 

I set it sideways (bulb not touching) on corkboard, and turned over to my table behind me to get a magnifying lens. No more than 3 seconds after setting it down there was a loud POP explosion. It was about as loud as a ladyfinger firecracker, or capgun going off.

I felt pieces of the glass bulb hit me in the back, and back of my head about 3 feet away, so this was a significant amount of force. I was not injured in any way. 

My concern for others of course is to make sure you *ALWAYS WEAR EYE PROTECTION when inserting/removing these bulbs,* as had I been facing or looking up close without eye protection, it would potentially have been a disaster. Here are two shots of the 'exploded' bulb. Interestingly, you can see the filament is still connected to the posts.



​


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## lctorana (Aug 24, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

fascinating to think the bulb wasn't powered on at the time of the explosion


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

Yeah, the D-26 holder has to be removed and loaded outside of light. This was either over pressurized, or the crack from bottom fracture spread slowly. Thank God, because when I was inserting it, I was NOT wearing eye protection.


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## DaFABRICATA (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

Glad to hear you are ok!oo:

I'll be careful when handling these!

Now go put it in something and fire it up to finish it off!..:devil:


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## DM51 (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

Thanks for this advice, Lux - and I'm very glad to hear you are OK. 

With their phenomenal performance for such a small size, these tiny bulbs must be right on the edge of what is possible, and I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised that the internal pressure is high.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

You lucky SOB! Thank God everything is ok. And thanks for letting us know about this potential hazard.

Cheers.


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## tebore (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

It should be a safety warning with all high pressure incan bulbs. It seems like your bulb just so happens to have a defect in the envelope and enough pressure to blow the bulb apart.


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## Nite (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

rarely, some of my customers have reported crushing, breaking, cracking bulbs, I have crushed one or two myself when not centered. I have chipped them as well during install. Its rare.

This is the first time i have heard of a damaged bulb then exploding on its on.

Where are my safety glasses?

glad your unhurt.

thats a one in a million fracture. small enuff to lead to catastrophic failure, but after 3 minutes!

should I post a warning?


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## My3kidsfather (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

LuxLuthor- Glad to hear you were not blinded by the glass. 

I did find it humorous that you noted the element was still intact and ready to rock... lol. An observation of a true flashaholic for sure..


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*



Nite said:


> rarely, some of my customers have reported crushing, breaking, cracking bulbs, I have crushed one or two myself when not centered. I have chipped them as well during install. Its rare.


Honestly, I have had this happen with as many as 20-25 bulbs, sometimes a fairly large chunk of glass...especially if I'm not pressing exactly straight into holders (FM's G4, KIU holder, etc.).


Nite said:


> This is the first time i have heard of a damaged bulb then exploding on its on.


That was the shock. I always knew all these small halogen incan bulbs are under pressure, but after using hundreds of them...testing to their destruction, etc., this was the first time one exploded.


Nite said:


> but after 3 minutes!
> 
> should I post a warning?



It was after 3 seconds. I only turned over to table behind me started reaching for magnifying glass, and KAPOW!

On the possibility that these small 1794 bulbs may be under even more pressure (I don't know their design) than other halogens, I think it would be wise to post a warning for people to wear eye protection when inserting/removing them in first post. Most people will be looking at bulb up close to get tiny legs in tiny holes of FM's D26 holder.

Again, Nite, I know how conscientious you are, so please don't feel at all responsible for this. Like you say, this may be the only time this ever happens to anyone, so no need to overblow reactions.


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## Kestrel (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*



LuxLuthor said:


> Most people will be looking at bulb *up close* to get tiny legs in tiny holes of FM's D26 holder.


(emphasis added) 
:sweat:


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## Jimed315 (Aug 25, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

Glad to hear you wern't hurt and thanks for the warning Lux! The two 1794 bulbs i put in my FM D26 holder broke. I was unhappy because of what they cost, I would have been even more than unhappy if glass would have got into my eyes! From now on I will be wearing my safety glasses.


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## Nite (Aug 26, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

A bold warning insisting on safety glasses was added to the thread the other day based on your experience.

Right above the paypal addy.

they cant miss it.

thanks.




glad your unhurt.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 26, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

Sounds good, Nite. It may have just been one of those freak things...but in case it was under a higher pressure by design, hopefully it won't happen to anyone else. We forget about using eye protection though.


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## [email protected] (Sep 3, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

The same happened, but the burning bulb was exposed to moisture and shock so I can only blame myself. The loud  is scarier in real life.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 4, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

What potted bulb was that? It is a good reminder to always wear eye protection when doing funky things with bulbs.


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## [email protected] (Sep 4, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*



LuxLuthor said:


> What potted bulb was that? It is a good reminder to always wear eye protection when doing funky things with bulbs.



1331, I got an urgent call of nature and brought my mag31 without a head on and while washing my hands I splashed some water and heard a sizzle and there was a loud scary pop. The only thing I could do is point the thing away from me. Thank God I still have 2 working eyes.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 4, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

So you went to the head without a head? 

Splashed water on it, yeah that would do it!


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 4, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

OMG!!! Someone needs to do a bit of research here on CPF. JS, Lux Luther, Ginseng, others have all posted info re keeping the head on the light while running it.

Bill


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## pertinax (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

One of my new ones popped on me, too. I think I used a bit too much force when inserting it, but it definitely went "Pow!", and shattered. No harm to me, but one less 1794.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*



pertinax said:


> One of my new ones popped on me, too. I think I used a bit too much force when inserting it, but it definitely went "Pow!", and shattered. No harm to me, but one less 1794.



Did you wear eye protection, or get the crap scared out of you, and resolved to wear protection in the future--like me?

If we have two of us (both very experienced with incans) this happened to now, it has moved beyond a one in a million--'fluke event'. 

The trigger seems to be inserting the bulb and the slight force to the outside splitting the delicate glass, and giving a route for the high pressure to fracture/explode the bulb. 

In the bag, handling by pins, and once installed they have all behaved fine.

*Wear Eye Protection When Inserting These.*


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## Nite (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

I would like to point out that (except for dozens of crushed bulbs due to off center installs), there has never been a single reported injury after over 4 years of FiveMega bulbs being available and in use..due to time delayed explosion, due to and after physical damage to the 1794s itself or any other Custom bulb I have heard of...

Please take luxluthors advice and use some kind of OSHA approved eye protection when using pressurized halogen bulbs in any application. or any bulb for that matter.

not just this one kind of bulb.

I thought all halogen bulbs were this fragile.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

Actually some of the hard glass larger Halogen bulbs such as made for the Streamlight SL30, or SL20 are very tough and durable, not fragile at all. However, still handle all high pressure bulbs with care. keeping the head with window on, or use protective glasses.

Bill


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## Nite (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

do those fit 1.5mm sockets?

thatd be cool

id like to also mention these are almost identical to a CL-H-1499 with only a few modifications by FM on the stock CL-1499. I was considering buying a few H1499 for the added runtime but the local cops only need 15 minutes a night, about one car stop:thinking:. I still want some for myself. I wonder if the pressure is the same.

the same warning should apply to any halogen filled carley lamp, and then id have to extend that even further...

Im surprised anyone and everyone in this hobby building advanced lights, soldering..installing bulbs...working with metal, drilling, etc...isnt already wearing goggles.

lets all put on a cool looking pair of safety glasses when we work on our lights.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

I was actually referring to the Streamlight SL 20X, SL20X LA's which come as a single unit, the reflector and potted lamp with pins. They work with Streamlight and TigerLight flashlights. The lamps themselves are very strong.

Bill


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## Illum (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*



LuxLuthor said:


> ​



is the grayish/black streaks in the back tungsten residue?


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*



Illum said:


> is the grayish/black streaks in the back tungsten residue?



No. That is 'simulated marble streaking' of a formica countertop.


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## rizky_p (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

the scariest part is that the bulb exploded even when no power us applied. I though such think will not happen.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*



rizky_p said:


> the scariest part is that the bulb exploded even when no power us applied. I though such think will not happen.



As Nite mentions, he thought we always used eye protection...but after you work with many hundreds of bulbs, inserting in FM, KIU, and other holders, push and pull, move side to side to get perfect middle alignment, intentionally burn out a crapload of them doing destructive tests and nothing ever happens...after a while you let your guard down and think nothing ever will happen.

Rizky, all these bulbs have a high pressure put into the envelope, so if there is a physical weakness like a fracture, and it is a thinner glass envelope like these bulbs...it is likely easier to give an escape route release of the pressure. Think of those car window point hammers or BB gun impact that can shatter the brittle glass into a thousand pieces.

I have worked with about 8 different Carley bulbs. I have even had a bunch of Osram bulbs splinter off a side piece of glass when pressing into KIU holder (same with Philips 5761), dropped various bulbs on a wood floor, did all kinds of bending of bipin legs...never had one pop/explode on me. 

I'll never forget this though.


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## lctorana (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

The thing about these new bulbs we are playing with, particulary those for "hotwires" is that the fill gas is under pressure.

Traditional, old-school torch bulbs have a vacuum inside the glass envelope, or a trace of inert gas, and *implode* when broken.

These "hotwire" bulbs *explode*, sending tiny glass shards in all directions.


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## QtrHorse (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

Well, I was dissapointed tonight when three of these new bulbs burst.

One burst/ exploded while gently inserting it into the FM brass pill. The second went in fine but still needed to be pushed further in. After applying a little pressure downward, it popped. The third was inserted very gently. After trying to screw it into the reflector, it would not go in. The bulb was slightly crooked and would not let the pill screw into the reflector. I did not want to try and bend the legs while it was in the base so I tried to screw the brass base in and the bulb exploded. This last one scared me because the first two, I had a eye glass cleaner rag wrapped around the bulb so it muffled the tiny little eplosion. The third was not muffled. The tiny little shards of glass hit my glasses and scatched my reflector. 

Nothing like $40.50 being tossed in the garbage in a matter of five minutes. I didn't even get to try any of the three out. I don't even know if I want to try out the other two I bought. 

After looking at the bases where the pins come out, there are tiny little bubbles in the glass and the glass around those pins look to be stressed. I only bring this up because I have bent neon in the past and you can always tell where a pc of neon will break because of the stress marks where it was bent or welded together.

I have to say I am really dissapointed in these bulbs.

*I cannot stress enough how important it is to wear some type of eye protection while working with these bulbs. One of those tiny little pcs of glass could easily have gone into my eye if I did not have my glasses on. After further inspection of my glasses, I have three very tiny marks on the lenses now.*


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

*PM FM.**[FONT=&quot][/FONT]*


Bill


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## QtrHorse (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*



Bullzeyebill said:


> *PM FM.*
> 
> 
> Bill


 
These bulbs are not from FM. They are from Nite, he handled a recent GB for these bulbs. 

I may PM him. I completely understand there are risks with these high pressure bulbs but this run seems to be of a poor quality or possibly overfilled.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*



QtrHorse said:


> These bulbs are not from FM. They are from Nite, he handled a recent GB for these bulbs.
> 
> I may PM him. I completely understand there are risks with these high pressure bulbs but this run seems to be of a poor quality or possibly overfilled.



PM FM anyway. He sells these bulbs with his mods, and can maybe enlighten you. He is sort of in association with Nite, on some of these ventures. You are using these bulbs in FM brass pin holders. Of course, by all means PM Nite too. 

Bill


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## [email protected] (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*

Don't forget to contact carley directly.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*



Bullzeyebill said:


> PM FM anyway. He sells these bulbs with his mods, and can maybe enlighten you. He is sort of in association with Nite, on some of these ventures. You are using these bulbs in FM brass pin holders. Of course, by all means PM Nite too.
> 
> Bill



FM ran out of these bulbs long ago, hence the run that Nite did with Carley. It does seem that this new run was not made right, as none of the previous users of the bulbs that FM sold did this to anyone that I ever read about.
*
Crap. I mixed my old FM bulbs with the new ones from Nite. I wonder if he has any recourse with Carley, since this is pretty obviously a defective run.*


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*



LuxLuthor said:


> FM ran out of these bulbs long ago, hence the run that Nite did with Carley. It does seem that this new run was not made right, as none of the previous users of the bulbs that FM sold did this to anyone that I ever read about.
> *
> Crap. I mixed my old FM bulbs with the new ones from Nite. I wonder if he has any recourse with Carley, since this is pretty obviously a defective run.*



Lux, you need to mark those tiny bulbs with a broad felt marker. LOL. 

Bill


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion)*


*I can now see what I believe is pretty convincing evidence that there is a manufacturing defect in a good number of the Carley bulbs we got from Nite. *


* I believe Carley has a responsiblity in this matter, especially as a matter of public safety with higher than expected incidence of exploding bulbs. This is my opinion, and I am not a lawyer.*
 
*Hopefully Nite/Wonderlite can share these photos with Carley and get some replacements. Here is thumbnail of all bulbs lined up:*


​
I have 27 of these 1794 bulbs. I got 15 from Nite; 12 from FiveMega.


Of the 15 from Nite, I had 6 still in the pink containers that were from my last order of 5 + 1 extra to replace the exploded one.


I lined up all 27 bulbs and numbered them.


 *I am sure that six are from Nite, because I still had them in the small pink containers, and those are numbered #16-21 in this sequence.* 


Of the remaining 21 bulbs, nine are also from Nite, and 12 are from FiveMega, but I mixed them together....so I don't know which nine of the 21 are from Nite. 
I used one of those digital USB microscopes to take shots of all 27 bulbs, and focussed as best I could. I still have the bulbs in the same order, on a shelf, so I can go back to a specific one if needed. These images are 1024 x 1280 size.

*I believe 10 bulbs are clearly defective, and I put a red "X" on the images of #1, 3, 8, 14, 15, 17, 18, 20, 22, 23 because of obvious bubbles and or a space on #3 below gas envelope.* However, there may be something on the sides I should be looking for instead. Anyone may use these images as they see fit.*Bulb 01 --- Bulb 02 --- Bulb 03 --- Bulb 04 --- Bulb 05 --- Bulb 06 --- Bulb 07 --- Bulb 08 --- Bulb 09 --- Bulb 10*

* Bulb 11 --- Bulb 12 --- Bulb 13 --- Bulb 14 --- Bulb 15 --- Bulb 16 --- Bulb 17 --- Bulb 18 --- Bulb 19 --- Bulb 20*

* Bulb 21 --- Bulb 22 --- Bulb 23 --- Bulb 24 --- Bulb 25 --- Bulb 26 --- Bulb 27*​


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## QtrHorse (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion) - New - Photos Taken of 27 Bulbs*

Thank you for the detailed photo's Lux. I could not take any pictures with my camera that captured the tiny bubbes.

Photo 15 shows the best example of the tiny bubbles that I was talking about. As you can see from the image, there are many little bubbles and they are around the pins in what I call the second stage of glass. That is where all my bulbs broke. I only had that base left.

Photo 23 has a couple larger bubbles and I don't believe those would cause a problem but you never know.

I do not have near the experience that Lux and many others have with these type bulbs. I have honestly only handled these bi-pin type bulbs maybe 30-40 times (removing, inserting and etc.). I have never had another bulb break on me while trying to bend the pins to make it straight or while inserting it in a holder.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion) - New - Photos Taken of 27 Bulbs*

I just took a series of shots of bulb #1, walking it slowly around. Notice the "moth eaten" appearance where it looks especially fragile at bottom of gas envelope, especially on the one side. Not all the bulbs look like this. I don't know if bubbles in glass between legs, or this type of "issue" promotes their easy exploding when inserting into bulb holder.

Bulb 1a --- Bulb 1b --- Bulb 1c --- Bulb 1d --- Bulb 1e --- Bulb 1f

I think Bulb 1f shows the issue best in that series.


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## QtrHorse (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion) - New - Photos Taken of 27 Bulbs*

Great images Lux. That series really shows what I think is part of the problem.

If this really is a manufacture defect, will Carley warranty/ replace all these bulbs? With them being a custom item, I did not think they would but exploding bulbs seems to be out of the normal.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion) - New - Photos Taken of 27 Bulbs*

I don't know how Carley looks at things like this. As a company, fixing this now is a relatively minor expense to an apparent defect. If this were to lead to one or more serious eye injuries, it could quickly become a lawsuit with significant damages if they willfully disregard it. Viewing these with the digital microscope, and comparing to other bulbs is most interesting.

I sent pm's and emails to Nite, Wonderlite, and FM (for courtesy reference), suggesting they contact Carley for their own protection.

*Everyone please continue to be careful with these bulbs.*


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## Nite (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion) - New - Photos Taken of 27 Bulbs*



QtrHorse said:


> Great images Lux. That series really shows what I think is part of the problem.
> 
> If this really is a manufacture defect, will Carley warranty/ replace all these bulbs? With them being a custom item, I did not think they would but exploding bulbs seems to be out of the normal.



I wish i had some of this info sooner...

*We had a 30 day warranty against defects.*.

MY experiences with these bulbs so far are similar to the 1794 I got from FM last year.. I even broke one when i hadnt checked if it was straight. 

I thought i was breaking bulbs because im new and These are fragile.

Im curious if the batch from two years ago had the same bubbling in some of its bulbs.

*I would consider these safe only if your wearing eye protection and I posted not to buy if your not wearing eye protection during install.* This is a good thing for any 1794 whether it be first or second run. or any hotwire setup...

Also *I have passed this entire thread onto Carley sometime ago* thru my salesperson, who passed it on to engineering, who I did not hear back from yet. Maybe that was within 30 days...


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## QtrHorse (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion) - New - Photos Taken of 27 Bulbs*



Nite said:


> I wish i had some of this info sooner...
> 
> *We had a 30 day warranty against defects.*.
> 
> ...


 
I have had the bulbs for about a week now. I only tried to install them last night. When the first bulb popped, I thought oh well. When the second bulb popped, I thought this sucks. When the third bulb popped, I thought this is just rediculous (there were also some profanity that slipped out because it scared me).

Hopefully Carley will stand behind their product on this one but you know how the big companies are when it comes to a tiny little sale like this.


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## Nite (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion) - New - Photos Taken of 27 Bulbs*

Wonderlite, my investor, has decided to pull the 1794 off the market until this is resolved, due to luxluthors concerns.:mecry:

In my sales thread someone was crushing bulbs by accident, etc..but in this case, even I see the bubbles in the base of the bulb.

If this is normal I dont know, but no more 1794s will ship until we hear back from Carley.

Liability in the USA rests with the manufactures, but I wont sell these until I hear they are "safe"

Following proper install instructions provided by luxluthor should've prevented breaking bulbs.

I hope others will chime in on this.


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## Nite (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion) - New - Photos Taken of 27 Bulbs*



DM51 said:


> Thanks for this advice, Lux - and I'm very glad to hear you are OK.
> 
> With their phenomenal performance for such a small size, these tiny bulbs must be right on the edge of what is possible, and I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised that the internal pressure is high.



This is also what I think is going on.



QtrHorse said:


> Well, I was dissapointed tonight when three of these new bulbs burst.
> 
> One burst/ exploded while gently inserting it into the FM brass pill. The second went in fine but still needed to be pushed further in. After applying a little pressure downward, it popped. The third was inserted very gently. After trying to screw it into the reflector, it would not go in. The bulb was slightly crooked and would not let the pill screw into the reflector. I did not want to try and bend the legs while it was in the base so I tried to screw the brass base in and the bulb exploded. This last one scared me because the first two, I had a eye glass cleaner rag wrapped around the bulb so it muffled the tiny little eplosion. The third was not muffled. The tiny little shards of glass hit my glasses and scatched my reflector.
> 
> ...




When i First tried these I had the same problem with my "first run" FM 1794s when I put any pressure at all on legs during install I cracked the bulb with a loud pop.

after one or two I stopped breaking them, but three in a row sux...

Bubbles in the base of a 2nd run 1794 is not good..unless the first run also had a certain level of this bubbling, I doubt its normal and im sure it weakens the structure.

Im glad no one was hurt. Wear eye protection please.


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## Monocrom (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion) - New - Photos Taken of 27 Bulbs*



Nite said:


> Wonderlite, my investor, has decided to pull the 1794 off the market until this is resolved, due to luxluthors concerns.:mecry:


 
Nite, you and your investor are doing the right thing. Let's hope Carley does the same as well.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 20, 2009)

*Re: Safety Warning With CL-1794 Bulb (Explosion) - New - Photos Taken of 27 Bulbs*

*Nite, we are all on the same page that the problem rests with Carley.* You and Wonderlite have handled this seriously, and siding with people's safety. You both deserve high praise and thanks. I would not let Carley off the hook however.

I thought this was a one in a million "fluke" episode when my first one exploded a couple seconds after I inserted it (without eye protection). It dropped to a probable defect when Pertinax also had one blow.

I decided to spend the hours checking and microscopically photographing every bulb when QtrHorse had 3 blow in addition to ours. I think this is a situation that uncovered itself as a few more people started using their bulbs, and while these new photos may go beyond the 30 days, my first popped bulb did not.

If you want to have Carley (or their engineers) contact me for additional closeup photos like I did with Bulb #1, that is fine with me. I would also be willing to contact Carlley directly if you want to send me the contact person you have been dealing with. If they give no response, then I would be more than happy to contact my attorney and the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission.

There are two issues here that take this beyond a routine custom bulb production issue:


First and foremost is that everyone who bought these bulbs should hear about the danger to their eyes and takes adequate precautions so they don't lose their sight. Nite, you may want to send emails/PM's to those who bought them so they know about in case they did not see this thread. This is in a category of product liability now that you notified Carley. _(It's up to FM if he wants to do the same, but we didn't hear any stories of these exploding from his previous sale)_


Second, this is a larger scale manufacturing defect failure of this bulb run as shown by photographs. That takes it beyond the normal category of 30 day warranty designed to cover obvious defects, such as broken on arrival, a broken filament, or an immediate burnout when delivered to Nite.
Here is Carley Lamps contact information:
*Carley Lamps*
* 1502 W. 228th Street
Torrance, CA 90501*
* 
Tel +1.310.325.8474
Fax +1.310.534.2912*

* [email protected]*​


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 20, 2009)

I just sent this email to [email protected]



> I started this thread in the Candlepower Forums to issue an alert to fellow members to be sure they wear eye protection after one of your bulbs exploded a few seconds after I inserted it into a bulb holder. Since my post on August 24, 2009 there have been 4 more reports of the same thing happening to others. Yesterday, I took closeup photographs of all of the remaining 27 CL-1794 bulbs I have, and posted them in this thread.
> 
> I feel this is a product defect and that Carley has a responsibility to protect people from a defective product. At this point, I have not heard of any eye injuries from these exploding bulbs, but these are my friends, and I am concerned.
> 
> ...



Edit: Email bounced back, so I used their online contact page here.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 20, 2009)

+1

Bill


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## Nite (Sep 21, 2009)

I just got off the phone with an engineer at CL.

I sent him an email with both your posts and all your photos Lux

Good news: the bubbles are normal it known as boil, or boil over...Reboil

bad news: He didnt like what he saw..the top and bottom layers on these handmade bulbs do not meet at the correct angle. He is seeing rainbows and other artifacts that should not be there.

He needs samples..so Im going to have you send your best examples from your photos to him direct. I am going to do the same.

IF we can get him some samples that are known to be First run for comparison thatd be good also, I have some here I think maybe.

I will also send him some random 2nd run FM1794..if he confirms what he suspects these should all be replaced.

a recall will be issued by us.

Im pretty sure I contacted my salesperson before 30 days passed. But if its a liability issue maybe 30 days doesnt matter anymore anyway.


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## QtrHorse (Sep 21, 2009)

That is great news Nite, please keep us informed.

I sent you a PM on the other forum a few days ago, did you get that one?


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## sygyzy (Sep 21, 2009)

Kudos to Nite and LuxLuthor for your dillegence in your case. I don't own any of these bulbs (only 1185's) but my takeaway is to always wear safety glasses when dealing with bulbs. Maybe gloves too!


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## Monocrom (Sep 21, 2009)

Nite said:


> I just got off the phone with an engineer at CL.
> 
> I sent him an email with both your posts and all your photos Lux
> 
> ...


 
Yeah that's bad. A rainbow inside of an inca lamp is like mold on bread. You see that, and you _know _the product is no good anymore.


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## Nite (Sep 21, 2009)

QtrHorse said:


> That is great news Nite, please keep us informed.
> 
> I sent you a PM on the other forum a few days ago, did you get that one?



Im sure I did get your PM but didnt have time to reply, I am flooded with PMs on a regular basis.



sygyzy said:


> Kudos to Nite and LuxLuthor for your dillegence in your case. I don't own any of these bulbs (only 1185's) but my takeaway is to always wear safety glasses when dealing with bulbs. Maybe gloves too!




I have always worn gloves when dealing with bulbs, finger oil. glasses are also mandatory.

Im just gad no one has been hurt, and I hope no one will be. I also believe gloves and glasses are not only mandatory, but common sense.


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## QtrHorse (Sep 21, 2009)

Thank you for keeping us updated. 

I will be patiently waiting to hear Carley's decision.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 21, 2009)

Nite said:


> .I have always worn gloves when dealing with bulbs, finger oil. glasses are also mandatory.
> 
> Im just gad no one has been hurt, and I hope no one will be. I also believe gloves and glasses are not only mandatory, but common sense.



Edit: Yes I am very glad no one has been hurt, and that we have had the opportunity to remind people to wear eye protection.

Hopefully this will all get worked out amicably with Carley.


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## Nite (Sep 22, 2009)

thanks for your reassurance and continued help Lux.

Contacting Wonderlite is the correct next step.

I had already advised him to contact our salesperson and send 10 random bulbs from the batch we ordered as the engineer asked for at least 5.

I mean your photos are what convinced the engineer to goto the next step.
If youd like to send CL your best examples of possible flaws let me or woderlite know.

this is now between wonderlite and CL.

thanks again


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 22, 2009)

I am more than happy to supply them with specific bulbs and/or additional photos from my list. I just want there to be a written record of who is requesting it, their mailing address, and reassurance that they will replace what is sent. You can give them my email address, but I also contacted them on their webmail form. No response received yet.


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## BSBG (Sep 23, 2009)

I am glad Carley is offering to examine the bulbs.

I hope it works out as I have 10 of these that I am not using, and probably never will at this point...


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## Bimmerboy (Sep 24, 2009)

Just coming across the more recent happenings here, and will be keeping a close eye on developments.

In the meantime, I'll visually compare a few of my 1st run bulbs from FM (I have more that are sealed, and NOT being opened as they have once again temporarily attained the status of gold!... lol), to the ten I bought from this batch to see if there are any apparent differences in construction quality. Will report back, with pics if warranted. If in a daring mood, I'll don the blast suit, and test them in the FM-D26.

Thanks to Lux for bringing this issue to light, and providing the much needed data to help initiate a resolution process, and to QtrHorse for relaying his incident to us. Glad no one was hurt! :thumbsup:


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## QtrHorse (Sep 25, 2009)

I would like to report back and say that I have not had one explode while just holding it in my hand. 

The problem arose when I had to apply a minute amount of pressure to the bulb. Whether that be just inserting it in the holder, trying to push it further down in the holder or trying to straighten it from side to side so it would go into the actual reflector.

I did finally get one in without the bulb exploding and I was pleased with the output.


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## Nite (Sep 25, 2009)

Im so happy no one was hurt.

Im so happy no one was hurt.

Im so happy no one was hurt.

Im so happy no one was hurt.

Im so happy no one was hurt.

Mostly, im just glad no one has been hurt.

Im "a little" unhappy that CL first made a defective product, AND then didnt check to see if these were ok after production and sent them to all of us Via Wonderlite. If only they looked at a few before shipping and packing such a "large" order.
I just wanted this order on time AND in perfect working order!! 

This will be rectified. A bit of a headache for me and wonderlite.

sorry for the delay this causes.

thanks to luxluthor and others in finding out why these were so fragile.

thanks for your support and patience everyone.

lovecpf


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 25, 2009)

Please let me know if they request any of mine in writing, or additional photos. I have heard nothing from my written notification of the problem on their website mail.

Get things in writing.


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## Nite (Oct 1, 2009)

FYI
we are now in contact in writing.

-----Original Message-----
Fromcarleylamps.com>
To: wonderlite
Sent: Thu, Oct 1, 2009 11:52 am
Subject: RE: 10--CL 1794 Sent 

I checked with him (the engineer) and he currently evaluating the lamps. He mentioned that once he has a final analysis he will let me know and then I will forward the information to you.



From: wonderlite
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:50 AM
To: CL Salesperson
Subject: Re: 10--CL 1794 Sent

What did (the engineer) say?


-----Original Message-----
From: @carleylamps.com>
To: wonderlite
Sent: Wed, Sep 30, 2009 2:29 pm
Subject: RE: 10--CL 1794 Sent
I’ll check with (the engineer)

From: wonderlite
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:53 AM
To: CL
Subject: 10--CL 1794 Sent

TO CL Salesperson: Do you have any information, on the testing for defects, on the samples from the run that I sent in, as asked of us from the engineering department? Thanks (Wonderlite)


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## Nite (Oct 1, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> Please let me know if they request any of mine in writing, or additional photos. I have heard nothing from my written notification of the problem on their website mail.
> 
> Get things in writing.



They did not request your bulbs in writing, except the engineer who saw the photos, did want them sent in for closer examination. this is what he told me over the phone.

Id love for you to send your 6 worst samples, (or best examples) of defects, in to (the engineer) and we would reimburse you.

We have already sent ten random samples in for testing...of the ones I sent you, Are they all defective or just some?


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 1, 2009)

Nite said:


> They did not request your bulbs in writing, except the engineer who saw the photos, did want them sent in for closer examination. this is what he told me over the phone.
> 
> Id love for you to send your 6 worst samples, (or best examples) of defects, in to (the engineer) and we would reimburse you.
> 
> We have already sent ten random samples in for testing...of the ones I sent you, Are they all defective or just some?



Nite, I sent this email to [Wonderlite]:



> I'm responding to a post today by [Nite] in the thread linked below.
> 
> He is again prompting me to send some of my bulbs to Carley as a result of a phone conversation he apparently had on September 21st., rather than a request for specific bulbs in writing.
> 
> ...


I again repeat being totally willing to help and send in bulbs. The problem is my assuming the bubbles were the weakness defect, but your second hand phone conversation refers to other issues, without listing which bulbs he saw that in.

When you don't get any of this in writing from Carley, you have no protections or ability to hold them accountable for expenses, replacements, etc. 

It is not unreasonable to ask that engineer to send a specific request to Wonderlite (and/or my email) listing which of my bulbs he sees the problem with, and directing me where to send them for his inspection.


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## Nite (Oct 1, 2009)

Also thanks for the advice about getting things in writing.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 1, 2009)

Nite said:


> As I stated earlier, Wonderlite is now handling this. as seen in my previous post.
> 
> (IMHO no reason to put your letter to him here.)
> 
> ...



In part I posted it here after your last update & repeated request for me to send in bulbs, despite thinking that Wonderlite was handling the matter, and because Carley may be following this thread. Apparently they viewed my post with linked bulb images. 

Since they are not responding in writing, nor providing me with specific requested bulb number samples from my list, this is my way of both updating others concerned, and not dealing behind anyone's back (including yours). All we have heard regarding actual defect concerns is the hearsay of your memory of what the Carley engineer told you.


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## LuxLuthor (Dec 7, 2009)

For documentation purposes, I never did get a response to my emails or from Carley's online web contact form. Thus, I never found out which of my bulbs gave more concerns (with rainbows & layer problems) to their engineer, and after sending 15 bulbs to Wonderlite, I no longer have the remaining bulbs in the same numerical order from previous photographs.


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 8, 2010)

I got my 1794 replacement bulbs from Nite/Wonderlite today, including postage reimbursed. Please see my cheer thread here.

I hope everyone involved takes a minute to thank them. There was considerable expense, phone calls, worry, and concern for member's safety that took a toll on these two very conscientious members.

I cannot think of another example that was handled with such professionalism and excellence...and I'm going back at least 5 years.


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## DM51 (Apr 16, 2010)

I agree - the issue has been handled in an exemplary manner by both Nite & Wonderlite.


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