# Tactical Green Laser wanted



## CTguy (Oct 10, 2010)

Hello everyone. Ive had a nice American Made laser on order for over two months at:
http://www.magnalight.com/p-45331-g...ad-beam-divergence--picatinny-rail-mount.aspx
but just cancelled the order as its been a few months that they have had my
money and not delivered the goods. Problems with circuit boards in Texas.

I have been searching online for many many hours looking at 
LaserMax LMS-UNI-G for 229 and the Virdian C5 for 225 and
the Laserlyte K-15 for 239, but some of the reviews were not
all that promising, so Im backing off and waiting until I can get
some info from people who are more knowledgeable in this area
then I am. 

The one that I really liked is called a Z-Bolt BTG-10G and it has a 
system where instead of using a allen key to change the zero
you have a thumb knob that changes the whole platform position
and you can take the laser out and use it as a handheld and then
put it back in and its in Zero once again. Because I am ex-military
and not active duty, Z-bolt will not sell it to me. Its only 5 mw
in power so its totally legal (does not have to be imported as its
made in American) and Z-bolt is missing out on revenue.

So boys and girls, men and woman, civilians and military or LEO's
if you have any good info to send my way, please do so, as a 
green laser will finish my building my rifle and make me a happy Man.







Many different companies made parts for this rifle, and every part is MADE in the USA and put Americans to work !!!!!!!!!!!


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## CTguy (Oct 11, 2010)

Another picture


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## wyager (Oct 11, 2010)

That gun looks great! Good call canceling that laser, the specs are really weird... Not trustworthy. I don't have any recommendations for a green weapon laser, personally I would build (or in your case, buy) a custom diode based laser.


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## gorn (Oct 11, 2010)

You do realize that green lasers have a beam that many times are visible I hope. So when you fire it up you have just turned on a pointer to your location. Not very tactical in my mind. Red lasers won't have that problem.


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## wyager (Oct 11, 2010)

gorn said:


> You do realize that green lasers have a beam that many times are visible I hope. So when you fire it up you have just turned on a pointer to your location. Not very tactical in my mind. Red lasers won't have that problem.



The increase in beam brightness (Rayleigh scattering) is minimal really... and if you're shooting someone, a laser isn't the only thing letting them know where you are, LOL.


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## gorn (Oct 11, 2010)

wyager said:


> The increase in beam brightness (Rayleigh scattering) is minimal really... and if you're shooting someone, a laser isn't the only thing letting them know where you are, LOL.



But it would be the only visual clue. You don't see flying bullets, you feel them, and generally have no idea where they came from unless the shooter is standing in the open.


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## wyager (Oct 11, 2010)

gorn said:


> But it would be the only visual clue. You don't see flying bullets, you feel them, and generally have no idea where they came from unless the shooter is standing in the open.



Muzzle flash, sound, plus OP already has 2 flashlights. I don't think stealth should be a concern if you use a laser sight, so it's basically irrelevant. Plus, unless you're using night vision gear there's no situation where it would be dark enough that the beam would be visible.


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## gorn (Oct 11, 2010)

wyager said:


> Muzzle flash, sound, plus OP already has 2 flashlights. I don't think stealth should be a concern if you use a laser sight, so it's basically irrelevant. Plus, unless you're using night vision gear there's no situation where it would be dark enough that the beam would be visible.



Maybe I just have good eyes, but in low light I can see the beam of a green laser. I don't know if you have ever been on the receiving end of incoming fire, but I have been more than I like to think about. Granted, you can sometimes see muzzle flash but not always. The sound of a shot arrives at your location after the bullet gets there. And I would hope the flashlights are for momentary use and not on all the time. 

If I was to use a laser as a target designator on a rifle or pistol I don't want one that would have any chance of giving up my location. The green may make you feel all Hollywood tactical but even the slightest chance of giving up your location isn't worth it when a red would work just fine without giving you up unless there is a ton of dust in the air.


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## CTguy (Oct 11, 2010)

I was very curious about the stats being strange on the American made laser from Texas that I called and canceled. Beam Divergence seems good (not that I know what that means) and Im way over my head to even begin to
try to talk as if I know what I am saying. 532 wavelenth is good for human eye being able to see color spectrum, but that is standard?
Close Quarter Combat, mostly urban, is what the green laser is for. Paint someone's chest with it and most likely they are going to freeze. The lumens
out of the Malkoff M-61 LED bulb will blind the heck out of most people and then the strobe from the other surefire will make some people respond in strange ways (epilepsy).

This is for a SHTF Im heading to the backwoods of Maine scenario, which will most likely never occur, but id rather have a bugout bag and food and meds, with ammo and some stuff ready, then to not be prepared at all. Only just a few years ago, discussions like this could only take place by 
rare and a strange sort of person......Ive talked to enough people now to see that DR's, Lawyers, and many walks of life would rather be prepared
for a state of emergency then get caught off guard.

I would like to know if I did want to build my own laser, where would I buy
the parts (tube to install inner workings in) and as I would want it to be a
tactical laser, when a round go's off and jolts the laser, it would need two sets of springs to encase the batteries so as not to turn it off and on.

diodes used in the Aries and Hercules from Laserglow are US-made (nLight and Osram) I see parts at this place: http://www.nvginc.com/lasdiohs.htm
but they are not american made, which is important to me. 

Thanks for your suggestions and help.


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## CTguy (Oct 11, 2010)

Hi Gorn, The flashlights have pressure pads for being on and then off very
quickly and while I have no experience in Tactical engagements, I hope I never have to. The green laser would be for 25 feet or less, and with the 
Surefire LED 240 lumens on, with the green laser, I would be able to at least
identify a person and blind them enough that it would give me the time to
spend the time to identify and not accidentally do something regretful or wrong.

Thanks for your input !


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## gorn (Oct 12, 2010)

No problem CT.
I see lots of people that want green lasers on firearms. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the potential dangers that may come with them. From the lasers I own the reds eliminate the visible beam problem and they are able to withstand recoil better than the greens. The red has a single diode and unless they have recently changed, the greens use lenses and filters that can be effected by the recoil. 

You have a real nice setup for a SHTF situation. I figured you would have pressure switches for the light. Having both a beam and strobe is a good idea. I don't think you will be strobing anyone long enough to bring on an epileptic fit but it will distract them long enough to determine friend or foe. 

All I can say, having been a combat firearms instructor for a large California Sheriffs Office for over 25 years is set that weapon up the way you want it then practice with it as much as you can.


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## CTguy (Oct 12, 2010)

gorn said:


> All I can say, having been a combat firearms instructor for a large California Sheriffs Office for over 25 years is set that weapon up the way you want it then practice with it as much as you can.



I think its funny that I meet a kewl person like you here on Candlepower instead of other sites devoted to weapons only. Ive not been getting any good info on those sites, so I figured this site would have a lot of people 
who know about lasers and I would give it a try.

I found a few places that have kits and you can build them using your
own host ( like a surefire flashlight made in usa) and the laser head itself 
can be american made, but I wont rush into anything, as what ever I get,
I want it to be what I want, and not just a substitute and then not be
happy.

When I first got the rifle, it had a plain end on it, so I looked up Muzzle Brakes and found the FSC556, and PWS says that the BATFE has notified them that the FSC556 is not classified as a flash hider, so it's legal in the remaining few states where flash hiders are not allowed, so I keep a copy
of the BATF ruling in my case. I had a plain end on my Rock River Arms 
National Match, and I did not like it either....Im used to service weapons
where they all had FS on the end.

Thanks for the info on the red being better under recoil.....I always thought that had to do more with if they used two springs for the battery
so it would not disconnect.


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## wyager (Oct 12, 2010)

gorn said:


> The red has a single diode and unless they have recently changed, the greens use lenses and filters that can be effected by the recoil.
> .



Any green laser your average person would purchase has at least 4 crystals/lenses- An Nd:YVO4 crystal, a KTP crystal, a beam expander lens, and a beam contractor lens. Chances are it has more, such as an IR filter lens or a dust cap. A diode based (red, blue, or purple) laser needs only 1 lens, and diodes can easily withstand up to 30G or 40Gs of acceleration IIRC while a green laser would break well before then. 

My recommendation is to get a custom 18650/CR123 based laser in a flashlight host, it won't cost all that much. Such a build would probably cost me under $100 and would be extremely durable. You could put it in one of those scope mounts where you can adjust the elevation/windage and get a consumer-class laser tailored to your specifications. If you wanted, you could even get a laser bright enough to use as an illuminator through your scope.


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## n0k1a (Oct 13, 2010)

What do you know, another thread covering a new topic of interest for me, since I just got an M&P 15T myself...aren't they sweet though? 

Very good points about green lasers...that's what I thought I wanted as well. I knew they had those characteristics, but hadn't thought it through in this context. Now I think I want red instead.  I did see someone offering a red/green switchable model, but that sounds like a recipe for disaster...

Any recommendations for a good, bright weapon-specific red laser with decent adjustments built in (so it can use plain scope rings or whatever), and preferably which also uses CR123 batteries and is housed in black aluminum to match the rest of the hardware?


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## wyager (Oct 13, 2010)

n0k1a said:


> Any recommendations for a good, bright weapon-specific red laser with decent adjustments built in (so it can use plain scope rings or whatever), and preferably which also uses CR123 batteries and is housed in black aluminum to match the rest of the hardware?



Any store-bought rifle-mountable red laser will basically suck. 5mW max.


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## CTguy (Oct 13, 2010)

Ive been looking through some websites that sell parts and I would like to 
get a surefire flashlight that is already tactical ready and have someone
convert it over to a host and then just buy the heatsink/circuitboard/
diode.......or whatever is needed. I see people selling kits, and some look nice, but I have to make sure all of my parts are USA made ONLY !!!

Thanks for help and suggestions everyone !!!!!!!!

Mike


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## wyager (Oct 13, 2010)

CTguy said:


> Ive been looking through some websites that sell parts and I would like to
> get a surefire flashlight that is already tactical ready and have someone
> convert it over to a host and then just buy the heatsink/circuitboard/
> diode.......or whatever is needed. I see people selling kits, and some look nice, but I have to make sure all of my parts are USA made ONLY !!!
> ...



Hey CTguy... I know at least 2 or 3 people over on laserpointerforums who could hook you up with a custom surefire build, but it would be a lot more expensive than just getting the same parts in a chinese-made host...


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## n0k1a (Oct 14, 2010)

wyager said:


> Any store-bought rifle-mountable red laser will basically suck. 5mW max.



Does this include the laser portion of the SureFire X400? Yeah, it's specced at 5 mW, but they claim it's twice as bright as others...and SF claims have proven to mean something in my experience.


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## wyager (Oct 14, 2010)

n0k1a said:


> Does this include the laser portion of the SureFire X400? Yeah, it's specced at 5 mW, but they claim it's twice as bright as others...and SF claims have proven to mean something in my experience.



It would be illegal of surefire to make it any brighter than 5mW... it's possible that they used a fancier and somewhat brighter 635nm diode, but it still won't match up to green (or get anywhere close to a blue at night) of the same power level.


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## CTguy (Oct 15, 2010)

wyager said:


> Hey CTguy... I know at least 2 or 3 people over on laserpointerforums who could hook you up with a custom surefire build, but it would be a lot more expensive than just getting the same parts in a Chinese-made host...




Its very important to me personally that everything on and about the 
rifle is made in the USA and puts Americans to work. So many things that
use to be made here ( tv's radios washing machines refrigerators, and so many other items have been off shored and now many Americans are out of
work. Its just a matter of pride with me, but I thank you for pointing out 
the simple facts. When I built my computer, I tried my best to get as
many American made parts ( not as much luck with that as in the past) and clothes for work and boots now are really getting much harder to find.

Any way, If you can hook me up with some honest people who can help me out, that would be great !!! Thanks so much !!!!!!


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## Notsure Fire (Oct 15, 2010)

Green is not too tactical..


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## wyager (Oct 15, 2010)

CTguy said:


> Any way, If you can hook me up with some honest people who can help me out, that would be great !!! Thanks so much !!!!!!



Hey, I sent you a PM... :thumbsup: Good luck with the build!


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## nfetterly (Oct 15, 2010)

http://laserpointerforums.com/f64/fs-diy-green-kit-host-heatsink-easy-assembly-22520.html

Try Jayrob - I think he has the same user name on CPF, before he got into "this may be a problem legally" he was hobby selling green lasers, along with DIY info - mind you from Chinese sourced parts. He's a knowledgeable guy.

Neale


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## wyager (Oct 15, 2010)

nfetterly said:


> http://laserpointerforums.com/f64/fs-diy-green-kit-host-heatsink-easy-assembly-22520.html
> 
> Try Jayrob - I think he has the same user name on CPF, before he got into "this may be a problem legally" he was hobby selling green lasers, along with DIY info - mind you from Chinese sourced parts. He's a knowledgeable guy.
> 
> Neale



One of two guys I recommended.


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## CTguy (Oct 16, 2010)

wyager said:


> One of two guys I recommended.




Thank you for the info............... Legality wise, the only thing I see in
looking around is that nothing above 5mw can be IMPORTED into the 
country. Many of the websites Ive been to are only selling to military
and law enforcement, and the products are only 5 mw anyway !!!!

I really wish that z-bolt BTMK10 system was available as it would
be the most perfect part for me. Being able to take it off the weapon
and put it on my telescope would be so kewl !!!!!!!


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## CTguy (Oct 16, 2010)

wyager said:


> One of two guys I recommended.



I visited his profile and saw where others had left messages, but did not
see an area where I could post a private or otherwise message to him
about building one for me that would have a USA host and parts
rather then the cree one (which is very nice looking) and the MXDL one
looks really great too !! I really envy his ability and setups to be able 
to have a hobby that can earn you money as well. 

Reading some of the DIY kits where you do have to soldier things
and whatnot, is a little precarious to me at this point....Im not as
young and steady as I once was. Eyes and hearing are shot, Dont 
get old......stay young !!!!!!!!!! LOL


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## wyager (Oct 16, 2010)

Just register, go to his profile, find the contact section and send him a PM. Tell him that you want him to build you a laser in a host you supply. They both probably have the resources to make a custom-sized heatsink, as well as assemble the thing for you. Be sure to tell them you want to keep the front spring and use it on a gun.


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## CTguy (Oct 17, 2010)

Notsure Fire said:


> Green is not too tactical..



For daytime with the sun out at around 100 feet or so, its much better then red.


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## CTguy (Oct 17, 2010)

wyager said:


> Just register, go to his profile, find the contact section and send him a PM. Tell him that you want him to build you a laser in a host you supply. They both probably have the resources to make a custom-sized heatsink, as well as assemble the thing for you. Be sure to tell them you want to keep the front spring and use it on a gun.



Thank you very much for the info...I appreciate it a lot !!!!


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## wyager (Oct 17, 2010)

CTguy said:


> Thank you very much for the info...I appreciate it a lot !!!!



Good luck!


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## kerze (Oct 18, 2010)

Sadly I cannot contribute to the actual question but I would still like to say something: Man how I envy you for that gun! I wish the laws in my country would let me get one of those... and really, a gun is one of the best ways (if not THE best way) to put a laser into action... *sigh*


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## zone 69 (Oct 18, 2010)

I found a green laser that works for what I need it for but it needs a 1000mah RCR123 battery to run it. My 650mha RCR123 wont run this unit at all.


*This is a new model of Green Laser sight scope*
*532nm Green Laser Dot Sight w/Pressure Pad & Mount *
*ON / OFF Cap Switch*
*Wavelength 532 nM*
*Windage & Elevation Adjustment*
*Beam Diameter : <1.2m*
*Beam Range : @ 10000 yard and up*
*Material : Metal*
*Use CR123A 3V Lithium Battery*
*Length: 111 mm; Weight: 250g.*


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## wyager (Oct 18, 2010)

Zone 69-first off, 1000mah has almost nothing to do with the ability of the battery to support the laser, at all. It only affects runtime. Also, those stats you posted are definitely a lie... 10000 yard and up my butt... Also, no power output is stated!  It also says CR123, not RCR123... BIG difference. Plus, that think looks like it's for airsoft, not a real gun. Uh-oh!

Be careful, lots of people will rip you off for those kinds of crappy green sights. It's worth learning the terminology and stuff just so you can buy properly.

Edit:
also, I just noticed the beam diameter is listed at 1.2m... LOL. If it's 1.2mm, they left of an 'm' and that's also way too thin... that beam will get fat really fast. If they mean 1.2mrad (which sounds more likely) that has nothing to do with beam starting diameter... I hate it when companies post specs they don't even get.


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## zone 69 (Oct 18, 2010)

Thank you wyager,,,,,,, Yaaa Post#2 one more to go and i can shutup.

Yes its for airsoft.

I dont know the correct specs it was copy & paste from the web site.
http://www.ebairsoft.com/adjustable-532nm-green-sight-laser-scope-mount-p-54.html

I like to be able use rechargeable 123 batteries in it but found that the ones I have only the green one Li-ion 17335 1000mAh 3v works and the Soshine RCR 3V 650mAh will not power it.

Green one
http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/7144714/FL_17335_3V_Rechargeable_battery.html

And sorry I have no clue as to the batterys or the laser im useing.

Charger im useing is the *Infamous* DSD.


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## wyager (Oct 18, 2010)

Alright, as long as it's for airsoft I guess you can't really go wrong, can you? Just don't believe any of the specs you hear. Often times vendors have no clue what they're talking about.


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## CTguy (Oct 19, 2010)

kerze said:


> Sadly I cannot contribute to the actual question but I would still like to say something: Man how I envy you for that gun! I wish the laws in my country would let me get one of those... and really, a gun is one of the best ways (if not THE best way) to put a laser into action... *sigh*



I sold 4 rifles and a few pistols (1971 Colt python with 6 inch barrel in mint
condition) and that got me the rifle and the sling. To get the eotech stuff I sold a 75 gallon bow front fishtank and a meade ETX90 telescope. I had a 
lot of stuff laying around never used and decided to sell it all and buy a nice tactical weapon in case the SHTF at some time. The Rock River Arms 20"
rifle I had was only good for long distance and was way too heavy to carry.
Now that Ive loaded up the new one, its not 6.8 pds anymore either. 

I bought the M&P15 last May and still have not taken it to the range yet.


And it you dont mind me saying so, the BEST way to use a laser is to have it on a telescope to help others learn about the stars and enjoy life....On a weapon it has a meaning that has dire results.


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## andyw513 (Oct 19, 2010)

For those green fans...have you ever checked out the K-15 laser that Laserlyte makes? I'm putting it on my AR when my silencer gets approved. It's only 5mw, but being green, I don't see much use for class IIIB anyways. 

I'm a big fan of the shape because it can be mounted on the top rail and not get in the way of your sights, a lot like a PEQ or a DBAL. Usually around 1/4 the price of a DBAL, too, which I really like.


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## Sand (Oct 20, 2010)

I think that will be fine


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## CTguy (Oct 20, 2010)

andyw513 said:


> For those green fans...have you ever checked out the K-15 laser that Laserlyte makes? I'm putting it on my AR when my silencer gets approved. It's only 5mw, but being green, I don't see much use for class IIIB anyways.
> 
> I'm a big fan of the shape because it can be mounted on the top rail and not get in the way of your sights, a lot like a PEQ or a DBAL. Usually around 1/4 the price of a DBAL, too, which I really like.


Ive priced the K-15 out at 239.97 but many of the reviews I read on it
were not very good....but it was the batteries that made me not want
it as I only want CR123 that go with the rest of my system.
Good Luck !!

Also, Hello Brother, I am a member of Valley Lodge #36 in Simsbury Ct and the Tyler.


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## CTguy (Oct 25, 2010)

*Re: Tactical Green Laser wanted 2*

Quote= My recommendation is to get a custom 18650/CR123 based laser in a flashlight host, it won't cost all that much. Such a build would probably cost me under $100 and would be extremely durable. You could put it in one of those scope mounts where you can adjust the elevation/windage and get a consumer-class laser tailored to your specifications. If you wanted, you could even get a laser bright enough to use as an illuminator through your scope.(sic) QUOTE

That would be a really great idea. but because I already have a 3 x magnifier and a red dot holographic sight, I have no where to put a scope that has been modified. Really great idea though, and someone else can surely use it
that has less equipment on theirs.

Ive had some people here suggest to contact some others on other pages and the one guy only sells kits, and would want to use a key to turn on and off.......not very recommendable for a rifle to use a key instead of a
button cap on end.

I spend hours searching and never come up with much. 

Thanks for the great idea about the scope though !!!!!!!!!!!


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