# LightForce 240 vs Powa-Beam 265.. Info + ???



## aerosimon (Jun 29, 2007)

Shopping locally in Australia for a new spotlight/host for projects, I have been debating between two local companies biggest reflectored units. The LightForce (LF) Blitz 240 is well known by many on cpf, but does anyone use, or have experience with the Powa-Beam (PB) brand manufactured NSW Australia?. 

........................Diameter(cm).....Area*(cm^2)...Cost(Aus$)...CP'
Lightforce...240 ......22.5 iirc..........397................ 150......... 1M
Powa-Beam...265 ....26.5.............. 551 ................250.........1.37M 

*Assuming perfect parabola without cutout for bulb mount to calculate
' Using short life halogen globe (factory spec LF axial, and scaled Area ratio for PB CP). Note: PB claim 1.45M and uses transverse filament)

The PB website (although very lacking in info) states a 12" version is available. Does anyone know of a larger variant than the 265mm (labelled 11"). There appears to be 2 variants of the 265 PB, possibly one newer, one older. Both have an external metal shell completely encapsulating/sealing the spotlight. One has a plain metallic outer (possibly ss) and a glass lense (higher weight, possible 2kg), the other having a grey/purple coated shell with plastic lense (just over 1kg). Changing globes is only possible through the front with lens removal. The outer shell is one piece. A rubber gasket appears bonded into place holding/isolating the lense to/from the outer shell. Does anybody have experience with this system. Does it require breaking the bond between gasket and shell then rebonding? A recessed groove runs the perimeter indicating a possible press-fit??. Please help if you can. All PB spotlights 110-265mm have same construction. Please note the 265 model is designed as a vehicle mount light, but a handle could be attatched to the mount bracket relatively easily.

Given the size and calculated (relative max CP) the obvious benefit to any modder of the Powa-Beam is a max Candlepower almost 40% greater, along with glass lense (on heavier version) and metal reflector for thermal characteristics (I assume less likely to melt with High Power Mods). Please chime in if experienced. However the user-friendliness of the LightForce is far superior. Bulb change by unscrewing reflector unit no tools. Lower weight (650g). Spreadable beam. Corrosion resistant Plastic/composite shell and reflector. The PB being car mount design offers user option to change between handheld and car mount, where LF is handheld only. Finally I would tentatively say on inspection, the Powa-Beam has a smoother, more polished and perfect looking reflector, although the larger size may give this illusion.

If passing a local gunshop in Aus, please check in and have a look for these. I'm wondering would you take one over the LightForce? 

Finally, Does anyone have a source of large reflectors, in australia, or overseas at reasonable/similar budget? 

Any questions, comments, chat and HELP welcome
aerosimon


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## rufusdufus (Jul 1, 2007)

aerosimon;
Finally said:


> aerosimon


 
Edmund Scientific sell up to 600mm reflectors.
If you get one please advise of quality.


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## s13tsilvia (Jul 1, 2007)

My cousin has a smaller powerbeam about the same size as the lightforce 170's that we use for spotlighting and they have the rubber ring about the outside which is what keeps the water out, it is pretty hard to get off but can be done and changing a bulb is not a drawn out process, takes only a couple of minutes, one of the big 11" or 12" models will be quite heavy i sure as hell wouldnt want to be hanging onto it all night spotlighting things., as the small ones are not light on there own. 
They are a high quality light.


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## aerosimon (Jul 4, 2007)

Thanks rufusdufus, I will look them up. Thats awesome to hear, because ultimately I'm looking for the biggest reflector at a reasonable price to make big CP in my own style of package,,, and in cpf tradition I will definitely inform if I make a purchase. 

I thought Id seen you noting these somewhere s13tsilvia, I wasn't sure how big it was that you were talking about. I agree, these 11" size models are definitely not for a weak arm, or constant use (hence the car mount design), but the lighter one iv seen with plastic lense appears significantly lighter than the glass model.. Maybe managable especially as the head of a thor style light Maybe ill peel the new 1.5 million stickers and put them on my homebuild if it happns But the more i think about changing bulbs repeatedly (want to run between 100 and 250W setups, both 12V and 24) I'm heading either to the blitz for easy change (plus i find the focussability although untested) would be useful as it has been for me on my mags... 10% flood use, but still used.. I might make new post about focus use pics of blitz

thanks for chiming in guys, I enjoy reading any feedback, and Edmund Scientific up to 600mm looks the ticket.. Ill do some searching and researching. Thanks again guys I will share what i find.
aerosimon


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## booma (Jul 8, 2007)

I was thinking along the same lines. The Powa Beams got potential.


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## s13tsilvia (Jul 8, 2007)

the smaller versions of the powerbeam have glass lenses as well,


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## aerosimon (Jul 12, 2007)

Im still thinking about it, but now seeing what is available and the price of reflectors, im tempted to do something a little larger Edmund scientific show up to 18 inches, being 45cm, just thinking about the focal point of 6 inches.. Thinking about how to make mount for this beast. I saw another thread talking about small reflector with 400W 36V, 16000lumens roughly or more... But im not set on things yet. The powabeam has big potential at 265mm for cp,, but 450 from edmund is 2.9X surface area and CP 

Anyway, ill be in and out as i think about what to do.. thanks for noting the glass thing on the smaller s13silvia, i believe they may be in changing to plastic based on what i saw. Maybe pick your flavour for now, or later the lens will melt anyway with 250+ W... 

Let us know what you were thinking Booma?
aerosimon


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## rufusdufus (Jul 13, 2007)

aerosimon said:


> Edmund scientific show up to 18 inches, being 45cm, just thinking about the focal point of 6 inches.. Thinking about how to make mount for this beast.
> aerosimon


That focal point of 6" relates to the 24" reflector,(600mm).
The 18" focal point is 4.5".


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## aerosimon (Jul 14, 2007)

Thanks for the correction. I thought I was limited to 'only' a max of 18" after misreading their site. Pheww.. Iv got a few projects going in my head, but 24" of reflector brings a big  to my face. 8Million instant on CP.... I'm just wondering how deep these reflectors are.. Iv sent an email off to edmund scientific, to get prices for shipping to aus, and reflector depth, but if you already know this, im all ears/eyes. Weight is also a consideration.. Id like to keep things mobile (without a trolley).. A quick 2D calc of 600mm diameter aluminium 1mm thick gives 283 cubic cm,, and weight of 800gms, assuming about 2.8g/cm^3 for Al. 3D will stretch this to 1 odd kg+... 

Im wondering if perspex like from bunnings will melt if used as a lense. Any ideas of where else to buy a suitable clear cover? Definitely want to avoid glass. I dont think it'l get enough use to have lense heating a critical issue, and if i need glass, then it wont get taken anywhere so wont have the heat issue either.. Just waiting for dimensions.. 

Also, Iv enquired at my local Middy's and Lawrence Hanson etc for a bipin holder rated at more than the 100W standard. Any ideas? The guys reckon they're all the same, but a more serious version wouldn't hurt.


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## booma (Jul 15, 2007)

Aero, i've just purchased a pro11 powa beam, a 36v 400w globe. i'm trying to make an adjustable globe mount. The focal Point is close to a 100w in size, things are looking good.I was impatient and bought the vertical element but the horizontal element is better for throw.I'll test it tonight.
They paint the reflector because you can see runs and growth rings, so i'm not impressed with it.Its cheap, what do you expect.
With the 100 watt globe and straight off the battery at 500m, the beam starts to fade over your head.It looks like a mini search light at that distance, so its pretty good.The globe dude i use is very helpful and told me that the long life globe is no good for throw. It will go a little harder with vertical filament and short life globe i reckon.

Anyway i'll continue butchering it in the garage and see if it reaches my expectations.Thanks to everyones info on the site, coz it helps with clueless people like me when it comes to electrical stuff.

I used tissues to gently clean the reflector but it scratched it and me and my mate had a good laugh. i should have taken it through a car wash.
i'm hoping its due to a cheap reflector. It's like a dragster parachute when you hang it out of the window at 60 kmh.Bad for fuel economy good for shoulder strength...


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## booma (Jul 15, 2007)

The results are as follows if anyones interested;

Fully adjusted globe with good spot at 5metres,thick wire, three 12v batteries, 20 minute run time until boredom set in.It was kind of an anticlimax.The light handled it fine only the glass was hot to touch.I'll call this version the paddock burner.I could of held an Auskick session with it.
Plenty of light, looked great but it had a thick beam.The 100w had a better throw and nice pencil beam. 
I don't know if a vertical filament would change anything so i've had my fun and am back on the hid path. To be continued....


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## aerosimon (Jul 15, 2007)

Booma,, You Absolutely cracked me up...... Almost had an inoperable keyboard from a mouthful of cordiial For cleaning reflector I was going to suggest a large washing machine, some pinoclean and few bits of steel wool thrown in for a thorough job, but a car wash with the free sanding/sandblasting combo is equally good

What did you mean by painted reflector? they looked top notch in the shop.. are you sure your not seeing through maybe a thin layer of reflective coating and the 'growth rings' arent from the forming of the aluminium reflector? GEEZ... Also, are you referring to $250 as cheap, or did you find a better/worse quality/price unit. How much?

I was fiddling with a HLX 64655 24V 250W osram, which is horizontal, and quite compact in a smaller host.. I dont really like the axial bulbs. they are long and thin usually (?) and give one small hot spot intensity and then a big round corona of lesser intensity. I remember Ra saying for max CP this Osram 250Wer is it becuase it gives the best surface brightness of any halogen available.. its a 50 hour globe,, cost me about 11 bucks when in perth.. from a brick shop.. should be less than 5 online..

OUch.. that story really hurts,,.. my abs are killing me from laughter too.... But really, i had much higher hopes than this.. So you have a glass unit model.. You sure the fuel economy isnt from the police pursuit with that thing on and out a window?? It cant be purely drag... Okay, maybe increase in vehicle mass with 3 12V + 11" spotty...

Auskick sessions, maybe some potential business there.. So the lights pumping out of it, its just not holding together. The general idea is what im after, but now am moving to a bigger reflector i believe..

OK... So after disecting this unit.. Would you say there is any quality in it, or it is strictly an as bought light, not a moddable.. How thick is the reflector? Could you see the vacuum aluminised reflective coating pouring away from the centre where hot? Damn..

Were my judgements so wrong then... I apologise to all who have been using my clearly unfounded praise to plan an awesome unit which really isnt worthy. 

To clarify,, some points of detail please if you can be bothered:
--reflector thickness/materieal
--access to bulb
--light any fires?
--Will their plastic lense model melt on your judgement with 400W
--what price did you pay
--Will you be putting HID into this setup? or is the reflector totally gone..
--Do they even use a decent guage wire inside upto the bipin holder? 

Bad luck, i feel terrible.. Every gun shop and a roadside foxshooter said they cane the lightforce units, but not many sell due to convenience of lightforce. I think guys have run lightforces with 400W for 5-10mins (dont quote me) without melting. Is it that the reflective coating really digs into the thermosetting plastic reflector used by LightForce.. 

Finally for me, Now im wondering what sort of unit you get from edmund scientific for 60US at 24" diameter, compared to 11" complete unit for 250aus. Please advise of prices around oz if vastly below this.. Better check all units for sticker saying 'will melt in direct sunlight'..

OH,, ANY PHOTOS of AfterMath? 

Thanks for sharing booma
aero out.


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## booma (Jul 16, 2007)

I've never really conversed on a forum so bear with me.
I had a good laugh, you've got a good sense of humour.

I don't know much about how reflectors are made i'm still learning but your'e right about the rings and the reflective coating, under close inspection there is a run. Poor workmanship. The rings are visible in the extremeties when you point it down the road. Good or bad don't know.It cost me $245.

I have abused the reflector its very strong, drilled an inch hole in it.A plastic lense would blister for sure i think.With 400w you place one hand even two in front of the glass and it didn't shadow the throw at all, freaky.With 20min run time, ambient temperature 8 degrees the glass was hot to touch.The rest of the light ice cold.Tomorrow i'll try and cook an egg on the glass.
Apart from the buff marks the reflector is fine and im going to do my utmost to get this thing lethal. Hid,candle power,Aboriginal rubbing sticks a bit of flint whatever it takes. 
The original bipin wire i used as dental floss. Its typical if you don't see it they build it on the cheap side .Ive used 240v wire all the way and i am buying a new bipin with adjustable screws for the pins and the wire.Original bipin is not good to modify.
Go to a store ask the guy to show you how to change globes and you will realize the outer casing is the poop you find as warehouse lights.The seal around the glass is the same rubber you use to seal fly wire mesh to aluminium household window frames.THey also use heavy farm fencing wire surrounded by black hose to spring tension the the whole thing together.Its primitive.cave man Barney rubble style.I'd hate to install an expensive reflector and it pops off down the road.Don't buy one go to middys and buy an aluminim casing and source a poop hot reflector.
I bought and tested the 64655 24v 250w globe at home and it's bright white compared to the 400w and 100w.I am going to test the 3 globes again but with the adjustable mount , (poor man RA Style) that i'm going to make and i'm sure i can make the 400w allot sharper.The 250 w looked great and can't wait for the feild test and photos.

What a workout.Finally i got may hands on a hid osram 150w globe no hot reatart, 7500k, 11000 lumens, 240 volt ballast with inbuilt ingniter all free.I popped it in and the preliminary tests against the wall displayed a nice clean projector like spot compared to the three stooges. Slowly Slowly catchy monkey or monkey gets electrocuted.


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## booma (Jul 16, 2007)

So there's no confusion the runs are from the factory not the heat.


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## aerosimon (Jul 17, 2007)

Thanks for the informative rundown booma Looking forward to the egg cooking If the HID doesnt end up working, Ill borrow a mates didgeridoo and join you to get the fire-sticks working

I'll have to drop back in another time, because im in a big rush right now.. Your mention of the bunnings style lights that they hang from the ceiling is exactly how id explain the shell of this light now that you bring it to my attention.. Until that point all i could think was aluminium salad bowl... Kinda good to know that 400W of heat didnt cause the run of the reflective stuff, as I was a bit concerned there initially. Anyway, good luck with photos, I'd love to see anything youv got finished or work in progress. Also good work with the temp data.. Thats very interesting. I wonder if the outer shell is dissipating heat hence its cold to touch, or its not actually getting hot at all, and all is going out the front or from reflector to glass. Ill be rethinking my idea of using perspex as a lense material now, as the reflectors im looking at have very shallow design which means the bulb will be almost in touch with the lense.. Still waiting data on them from Edmund Scientific though..

thanks booma and keep us posted
aerosimon


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