# which flashlight do you use with your gun?



## FILIPPO (Apr 25, 2008)

just want to see which is the most popular flashlight that people, in particular LEO, use with his gun...I have seen in most series like CSI/NCIS/Criminal Minds/... that the most used is the SF M4...

is that true or is just hollywood?


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## BIGIRON (Apr 25, 2008)

In Texas, we say "which gun"?


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## MikeSalt (Apr 25, 2008)

BIGIRON said:


> In Texas, we say "which gun"?



In the UK, we say, "What gun?"

If I had the luxury of choice, I would probably attach a Surefire G3 with 200 lumen lamp assembly. From my experience with air-guns, I would not want too much weight up front. It would throw the balance (and thus my ability to aim straight).


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## BIGIRON (Apr 25, 2008)

Good one, Mike.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 25, 2008)

MikeSalt said:


> In the UK, we say, "What gun?"
> 
> If I had the luxury of choice, I would probably attach a Surefire G3 with 200 lumen lamp assembly. From my experience with air-guns, I would not want too much weight up front. It would throw the balance (and thus my ability to aim straight).


That's what I use with my carbine, a dependable G3.


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## FILIPPO (Apr 25, 2008)

BIGIRON said:


> In Texas, we say "which gun"?


 

ahaha, I love texas!


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## Brigadier (Apr 25, 2008)

For concealed carry in public:







For at home on the night stand, the 9P:






I don't use anything with a reverse clicky.


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## Mark620 (Apr 25, 2008)

2D Mag ROP


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## Tachikoma (Apr 25, 2008)

BIGIRON said:


> In Texas, we say "which gun"?


I have to move there


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## FILIPPO (Apr 25, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> I have to move there


 
I'd love to move there!:shakehead


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## RobertM (Apr 25, 2008)

I have a Glock GTL10 mounted on the front tactical rail of my Glock 19 for home/personal defense. Its output seems on par wth a Surefire G2 incan. In a dark house, I really wouldn't want too much brighter out of a weapon light. With night adapted vision, my GTL10 is almost too bright around the house when it hits white walls when using it in short 2-3 second bursts. 

Just an observation I've made 

Luckily I've never had to use it yet. 

Robert


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## Lee1959 (Apr 25, 2008)

Depends upon the gun and flashlight I have with me if and when I need to use them together. If it is around the home, most likely it will be my Inova T1 which sits beside my bedside .45. Out and about it could be anything from an Inova X0, or X5 to my Streamlight Stylus or worst case a Fenix L0PSE with the Makarov, Kel-Tec PT3AT, or Ruger SP101.


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## USM0083 (Apr 25, 2008)

On duty, a G2Z with a R2 cree, in a V70 holster on my weakside. On my AR-15, a TLR-1.

Off duty I EDC a Fenix L2D CE, but keep a G2L in my car and a WF-500/HO-R5 in my bag.


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## KeyGrip (Apr 25, 2008)

The M4 is pretty Hollywood. I sometimes wonder what the CSI people were thinking when they chose a light with a turbohead to be used for up close examination work.


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## BSBG (Apr 25, 2008)

Why, an X300 of course:


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## DieselTech (Apr 25, 2008)

In Tennessee, we also lean toward "Which gun?"

The 870 shotgun has a Surefire foregrip/ light combo assembly on it. For anything outside the house (the dogs getting into something down in one of the fields, etc...) that has me grabbing one of the rifles I get the M6. For EDC, I have my E2D. I don't really carry it "with" my handgun, but it's the one most quickly available should I need the Glock and a light at the same time, as my 36 doesn't have a rail on it.


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## ampdude (Apr 25, 2008)

This is my "night light". Round bodied C2 with a P61.


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## tvodrd (Apr 25, 2008)

In the bookcase headboard of my bed, next to the quattro cinco is an E2L Outdoorsman "error light" from the long departed Tactical Warehouse. They were supposed to have been a SF "screwup," and consisted of an L2 "dumb" head on the E2L 2-cell body. Not too impressive on primaries, (except for runtime) but an L4 whupper on RCRs!

It replaced an M6/MN21 on my theory that more photons sooner before pupil contraction = greater "leopard syndrome." 

Larry


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## Pistolero (Apr 25, 2008)

Brigadier said:


> For concealed carry in public:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



G2L ? Does surefire make clips for them now? And is that a GITD ring on it too?

My nightstand light is a Brinkman Maxfire LX. It's the only forward clickie that I have. The backup light is a RiverRock 3Watt 2xAA light.

Was thinking about a Olight T20 or a Fenix TK10 as an upgrade.


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## Tachikoma (Apr 25, 2008)

What's a quattro cinco? :thinking:
Edit:nevermind, I guess it's a cal.45


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## Brigadier (Apr 25, 2008)

Pistolero said:


> G2L ? Does surefire make clips for them now? And is that a GITD ring on it too?



G2 w/ Uniq Q5 drop in. The clip is a NovaTac.


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## USM0083 (Apr 25, 2008)

Brigadier said:


> G2 w/ Uniq Q5 drop in. The clip is a NovaTac.



How do you like the Uniq dropin? I've been thinking about getting one.


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## CM (Apr 26, 2008)

BIGIRON said:


> In Texas, we say "which gun"?



Same here in Arizona  This is the wild west after all.


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## srvctec (Apr 26, 2008)

On my night stand is my Hokus Focus modded with an SSC P4 and focused to the tightest spot. That's my "bump in the night" light and what I'd use with my Ruger P89 that is also in my night stand drawer if the need arises.


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## jefflrrp (Apr 26, 2008)

I keep a Mag with a Terralux dropin next to me at bedside with my venerable old Model 10 .38. When I carry the Glock, I pick from a slew of Surefires. Depends on the day, mood, what Im wearing . . .


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## TD22057 (Apr 26, 2008)

HK USP .45 
+ Surefire Z2 combat light w/ a dealextreme Q5 drop in
= good night sleep

The Z2 was my first serious light (and for quite awhile my brightest) and I still love it's ergonomics when a weapon is involved. I was considering retiring it for something with more output until I found those drop in's. If I was looking for a new tactical light, I think I'd still get the Z2 and put a Q5 in it rather than something like the Fenix T0.


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## 270winchester (Apr 26, 2008)

FILIPPO said:


> I'd love to move there!:shakehead





FILIPPO said:


> ahaha, I love texas!



okay....


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## generic808 (Apr 26, 2008)

6P w/Malkoff with my issued S&W 5906 (yes, very crappy pistol which our dept will not get rid of) and 6P with my primary home G19 and back-up G26. The 6P has NEVER failed me in the field and as I said many times before, I truly do believe it is the most reliable light out there.


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## Brigadier (Apr 26, 2008)

USM0083 said:


> How do you like the Uniq dropin? I've been thinking about getting one.



I like it alot. I had originally ordered the Lighthound branded Q5 drop in, but they wouldn't fit my first gen 6P and G2, so they sent me the Uniq ones to try. Kudos to John @ LH for how he handled the whole transaction. 

They work great - a nice tight hotspot with plenty of throw, but still alot of room filling spill.


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## USM0083 (Apr 26, 2008)

Brigadier said:


> I like it alot. I had originally ordered the Lighthound branded Q5 drop in, but they wouldn't fit my first gen 6P and G2, so they sent me the Uniq ones to try. Kudos to John @ LH for how he handled the whole transaction.
> 
> They work great - a nice tight hotspot with plenty of throw, but still alot of room filling spill.


 
Thanks, looks like I'll be picking one up!


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## jufam44 (Apr 26, 2008)

Are you talking about weapon-mounted lights or handheld? I've got a SF M500 for the Carbine, and it works like a charm, definately provoking the "deer in the headlights" reaction. But for a few of our handguns, we've got X-300's from SF and a couple of Insights. My .50 is special though, as I have a Custom-Mount for it underbarrel that holds a 30w HID very nicely. And Bigiron, that was the first thing that came to my mind.


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## diananike (Apr 26, 2008)

I've got a Surefire G2 on my 14" 870 in a Tacstar UBM-4 barrel mount.
On my SKS I have a Ultrafire 4 cell Cr123 incan.
For use with my Norinco 9mm I grab my Fenix T1.

I'm not a LEO though. Just a Paranoid Gunfreak.


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## iapyx (Apr 26, 2008)

Maybe you folks have already seen/heard of this solution?

http://www.techeblog.com/files/shotun_flash.jpg

ARES Defense Systems has developed a Mag-Lite that doubles as a .410 gauge shotgun. No word yet on pricing and availablity. 


found this pic on this website: http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/top-10-strangest-spy-gadgets

put the pic in my photobucket folder


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## matrixshaman (Apr 26, 2008)

I doubt that shotgun flashlight is going to be legal most places and it's very doubtful it would be legal in the U.S. Not sure I'd like the idea of it firing out the back side either. Can you imagine if someone picked it up and didn't know what it was started playing around with the buttons after pulling the pin. The natural tendency would be to aim it forward (the light end) and the results could be disastrous. I know you'd have to keep something like that under lock and key or someone could easily have a very bad day.

As far as weapon lights I've got a good mount but haven't decided between a SF X300 and a Novatac tactical.


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## Lee1959 (Apr 26, 2008)

That would definitly be illegal in the United States, just as cane guns, hat guns, gloveguns, zip guns and other improvised firearms are illegal to even own without special licenses and documentation much less actually carry and use.


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## Tachikoma (Apr 26, 2008)

Hat guns? Never seen one in my life oo:
Could you post some image?


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## Lee1959 (Apr 26, 2008)

I will try and find one, I saw the patent of it on a History Channel special on weird firearms Basically it was a Derby hat atached to a framework with a cord arrangement down the sleeve. When you activated it, the hat lifted, and the hidden gun fired. I thought it added a nice addition to weird firearms .


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## Illum (Apr 26, 2008)

FILIPPO said:


> I'd love to move there!:shakehead



I'd flee from there....last thing I need is flying munitions from a distant neighbor who wants to try out his gun because of his new weaponlight


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## Hogokansatsukan (Apr 26, 2008)

I use a Novatac T both on and off duty. I had previously used an L2 on my belt and kept a Photon Freedom (red LED) in my shirt pocket for paperwork. I had several Surefires from the e1e up to the M6, and occasionally carried the M3. I found some serious advantages to the Novatac. 
My department trained in all the flashlight techniques, and I was quite comfortable with the Harries with the L2 and M3. I started practicing with the Thorpe Technique with the Novatac and now that is by far my preferred method. I haven't tried the Surefire Combat Rings, but may give those a try on the Novatac. Looks like Surefire is following Novatac's lead but calling the technique the Graham Method. Whatever you want to call it, the Surefires are just too long and bezel heavy for that technique. Hadn’t heard of the Thorpe Technique until the Novatac’s came out, and just saw the Combat Rings on Surefires web site.
 
If you are going to use a flashlight with a handgun, practice it. My department hasn't learned that yet as there are only two night shoots per year. That and they do not allow lights attached to our duty weapons.


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## BIGIRON (Apr 26, 2008)

Hey, Illum. If you'll check, you'll find Florida is probably the most gun-friendly state after Vermont and Alaska.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 26, 2008)

BIGIRON said:


> Hey, Illum. If you'll check, you'll find Florida is probably the most gun-friendly state after Vermont and Alaska.


+1

Add Virginia to that list.


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## iapyx (Apr 27, 2008)

Lee1959 said:


> That would definitly be illegal in the United States, just as cane guns, hat guns, gloveguns, zip guns and other improvised firearms are illegal to even own without special licenses and documentation much less actually carry and use.


 

Here in the NL it's even illegal to have a gun on you, luckily. To own a gun you will need a very special permission.
The photo of the Maglite flashlight and gun in one was more to make people smile. I don't even want to have a gun.


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## Size15's (Apr 27, 2008)

Please lets keep this thread on topic.
For Gun-owners / firearms users to inform us of the flashlights they use in conjunction with their firearms.


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## FILIPPO (Apr 27, 2008)

jufam44 said:


> Are you talking about weapon-mounted lights or handheld?


 
both! :thumbsup:


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## angelofwar (Apr 28, 2008)

_For my 870 Marine Magnum I have a SF 918FA w/ an FM15 and a AA Mini-M*g w/ 1 watt LED/IQ Switch and Red lens off to the left (I modded a regular 1" weaver scope ring w/ some 3/4" rubber hose, and it's pretty snug), and it basically serves the same function as the red LED Nav lights on the M-900. For my hand gun (S&W .40 Sigma) I have a Insight M-4. Due to the closed rail, this is the only light that will fit as far as I know?. But I always carry a G2/6P w/ a P-61/P60L to use in cojuction w/the M-4. on my S&W._


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## BIGIRON (Apr 29, 2008)

OK, since 15's got us back on the straight and narrow.....

A 9P w P91 bedside w/ the Commander 45.

A G2Z w/P61 in the beltpouch with the KelTec P40. Usually lives in the truck but goes on hikes, in the boat, etc.

An E0D or L1T in the front pocket opposit the KelTec P3AT. These are all-the-time EDC lights, not gun lights.


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## IPSC_GUY (Apr 29, 2008)

In sight M6X on an STI, Dawson built .40cal.







IPSC_GUY
SIERRA II ALPHA


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## Nathan (Apr 29, 2008)

I have a SF X200B on my G34. The broad beam is perfect for the typical gunfight range of 5 to 10 yards.

I like to have my other had free for other important tasks - opening/closing doors, pushing family members out of the way, calling 911 when the perp is detained, etc.


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## Federal LG (Apr 29, 2008)

I use a *Surefire L1* (not weapon mounted).

SF L1 in my left hand, and my glock .40 in the right hand!


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## SunStar (Apr 29, 2008)

SF M3 / Z48 on carbine. I like the form factor and its versatility regarding standard bezel, turbohead and choice of lamps (MN10, MN11, MN15, MN16). 

SF M4 / Z48 on rifle for long range varmint sniping.

X200 for various handguns.

Accompanying handhelds always include one of the following at minimum: C2/LFHO-9; 9Z/Pyrex Window/LOTC/P90, P91; or C3/Shock Isolated Bezel/LFEO-9, P91


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## Brownstone (Apr 29, 2008)

I use this:






Otherwise I just grab whatever is at hand.


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## Tachikoma (Apr 29, 2008)

Do you find the beamshaper more comfortable in CQB, right?


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## Brownstone (Apr 29, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> Do you find the beamshaper more comfortable in CQB, right?



Me? No, I primarily use the beamshaper as a fancy lens cap to protect the window. When I drill for HD with the light I always flip it open, so that is instinctive to me.

If for some reason I was using the light for general illumination I would probably flip the diffuser down.

Just an FYI - I'm pretty sure that these old beamshapers were made for SureFire by Butler Creek. It looks just like the scope covers they make.


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## Tao (Apr 29, 2008)

Until tonight, I had a scorpion on my 870 HD/Zombie Preparedness rig. 

I just opened up the Fenix TK10 box and put it on there, which I'll take pictures of and post tomorrow.

The mount and rail are both from DX.


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## boonsht (Apr 30, 2008)

I use a SF6p with Malkoff in conjunction with my Glock 19. 

For my AR-15, I'm trying to see how well the Solarforce L2 with R2 cree will hold up. It's mounted in a Vikings Tactical Offset mount. 300 rounds and still works perfect.


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## NA8 (Apr 30, 2008)

If you want a small forward clicky for EDC, a little Fenix L1Tv2 will work. The new switch on the Q2 version is excellent. A little more substantial feel than the original.


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## RWT1405 (May 2, 2008)

For CCW a 6P with Malkoff M60 along with my Glock G30 (.45) and/or S&W 642 (.38).


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## matrixshaman (May 2, 2008)

boonsht said:


> I use a SF6p with Malkoff in conjunction with my Glock 19.
> 
> For my AR-15, I'm trying to see how well the Solarforce L2 with R2 cree will hold up. It's mounted in a Vikings Tactical Offset mount. 300 rounds and still works perfect.



For a Glock 19 and similar doesn't the 6P extend in front of the muzzle to where it would be getting muzzle flash a lot? It seems it would end up with a fair amount of damage that way. Also seems like it would throw off the balance of the gun when shooting and would effect the action of the Glock. I'm only guessing on this as I have no lights directly mounted on any Glocks but I'm looking at this option now. I assumed I'd need a shorter light??


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## boonsht (May 3, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> For a Glock 19 and similar doesn't the 6P extend in front of the muzzle to where it would be getting muzzle flash a lot? It seems it would end up with a fair amount of damage that way. Also seems like it would throw off the balance of the gun when shooting and would effect the action of the Glock. I'm only guessing on this as I have no lights directly mounted on any Glocks but I'm looking at this option now. I assumed I'd need a shorter light??



I actually do not mount the 6P to the Glock 19 as I feel more comfortable using the Harries technique or FBI technique. Those feel natural to me. YMMV.

More info here:
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/557/sesent/00


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## Brigadier (May 3, 2008)

+1 on the Harries Technique.


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## Tao (May 11, 2008)

Updated rig with the TK10. 

Hands down best light I've ever had, and even better being able to use RCR123's.


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## Tachikoma (May 11, 2008)

Does that mount handle the recoil?


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## Brigadier (May 11, 2008)

Without a tape switch, I'd be more worried about cutting up my hand during recoil if shooting with the light on.


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## Ninja (May 11, 2008)

SF 9V Leopard Light on a M25...


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## Size15's (May 11, 2008)

Ninja said:


> SF 9V Lepord light on a M25...


Please can you share a photo?

This is not a combination I've seen before.
There are several ways I can think of putting such a thing together though...
LM90 with Millennium TurboHead, A21 Universal Housing, TailCap.
M3T
M97

Or is it a Classic (non-shock isolated) build?
9P+SRTH or something?


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## Ninja (May 11, 2008)

I have 30 mm rings that attach to the NXS 5.5-22x56 scope and the top side of the rings are 1" to attach the light...

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/560/sesent/00


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## Tao (May 11, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> Does that mount handle the recoil?



Yup, its held up fine through just shy of a case. 




Brigadier said:


> Without a tape switch, I'd be more worried about cutting up my hand during recoil if shooting with the light on.



A remote/tape switch on a pump is bad juju, but to answer your question, it hasn't been an issue. I think because my pump hand on the forend naturally recoils with the gun, so unless I'm turning the light on or off, they'd never touch.


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## Size15's (May 12, 2008)

Ninja said:


> I have 30 mm rings that attach to the NXS 5.5-22x56 scope and the top side of the rings are 1" to attach the light...
> 
> http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgrfnbr/560/sesent/00


And which light?


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## The Porcupine (May 12, 2008)

SureFire X300 on a Glock 34


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## Ninja (May 12, 2008)

Size15's said:


> And which light?



Surefire model 1251-06 Leopard light, which comes with SF model L120M Tactical Lamp Assembly, powered by SF DL423AC 12V (not 9V as I previously thought - sorry).

I also mount the scope & light on a .50cal BMG AR-50 which is the maximum shock a torch would be subject to with good results so far... 8>)






Sorry, torch wasn't mounted here on the AR-50


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## Size15's (May 12, 2008)

That makes much more sense - thanks!

Any chance of some photos of it mounted please?


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## Blue72 (May 12, 2008)

Here is the sweetest tactical rifle I ever seen with light, laser pointer, and butt stock rounds holder


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## FILIPPO (May 12, 2008)

dd61999 said:


> Here is the sweetest tactical rifle I ever seen with light, laser pointer, and butt stock rounds holder


 
LOL


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## Brownstone (May 12, 2008)

dd61999 said:


> Here is the sweetest tactical rifle I ever seen with light, laser pointer, and butt stock rounds holder



Quit showing off. We civilians don't have the kind of money to throw around that the Sheriff's department does. Besides, who do you think buys you those nice toys - the taxpayers, that's who!


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## Tachikoma (May 12, 2008)

Ninja said:


>


 


Unfortunately 12.7x99 (.50BMG) is restricted to military in Italy, again I must move to US to fulfill my dreams


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## Hogokansatsukan (May 12, 2008)

dd61999 said:


> Here is the sweetest tactical rifle I ever seen with light, laser pointer, and butt stock rounds holder



My department won't issue us duct tape. Too much of a liability and we have not been properly trained in the handling of these tools. We're still stuck using rubber bands.


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## angelofwar (May 12, 2008)

Here's a pic of a REAL 870 rig


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## Blue72 (May 12, 2008)

Candlepowerforum edition ruger 10/22


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## angelofwar (May 12, 2008)

Is there a gun in that picture? :shakehead



dd61999 said:


> Candlepowerforum edition ruger 10/22


 
The forum is "Which FLASHLIGHT do you use with your gun", not "Which GUN do you use with your flashlights"...:laughing:...LOL...I like the Bi-pod and the raisers...where did you get the raisers?


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## Nyctophiliac (May 13, 2008)

I was beaten to this novel method of flashlight gun mount by dd61999 but this is genuinely what I use at work and at home with my son!






It's a Fenix P1D CE with Leef body ( what a combo!)




Business end.



You can see the leef logo next to the spare darts.






With active led-laser sight.


Boy my Jersey is bobbling like crazy!




Be lucky....


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## blinder switch (May 14, 2008)

I use SF 9P,s with SureFire P60L's for my assault rifles. For various handguns, I use a few other SureFires in rotation. Here is a pic.


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## Icebreak (May 14, 2008)

I may extend it to overdrive a P91. Right now it has a Malkoff.






It works well with this.






These two work well together. 






For this purpose I like the Z3 much better though.


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## CLHC (May 17, 2008)

Can't top you fellas, but here's my version of a "weapon" light:










Ran out of them "100 MPH Duct Tape," so the Scotch Tape will have to do for now.


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## Tachikoma (May 17, 2008)

I take advantage of this thread to ask 1 question to you gun experts:
yesterday Italian customs have resent a package to dealextreme because it contained "weapon parts" ($4 scope mounts for airsoft replicas);
since I'll be getting a real Glock 17 in the next months I wanted to buy a SureFire X300, the problem is that in Italy it sells for €300 
Now, considering that on eBay I've fount it for €160 including shipping, do you believe it will be blocked at customs as a weapon part or they'll let it pass if the seller writes "flashlight" on description?


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## blinder switch (May 17, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> I take advantage of this thread to ask 1 question to you gun experts:
> yesterday Italian customs have resent a package to dealextreme because it contained "weapon parts" ($4 scope mounts for airsoft replicas);
> since I'll be getting a real Glock 17 in the next months I wanted to buy a SureFire X300, the problem is that in Italy it sells for €300
> Now, considering that on eBay I've fount it for €160 including shipping, do you believe it will be blocked at customs as a weapon part or they'll let it pass if the seller writes "flashlight" on description?


 
Tachikoma-

Hello from Florida, USA first of all. I am U.S. Army veteran and while I was in a combat arms MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) and fired and used calibers of weapons and Tanks from .22 caliber to 120mm, and all kinds of weapons in between that range, I still do not think I am an expert. But I have been firing large caliber weapons for 35 plus years. I even own several handguns, large caliber rifles, assault rifles, etc.

It might work, since it is a flashlight, but I do not know your what your Country would do, so It might or might not work IMO.

*I do hope that you can get it*, just please be legal and careful in doing so, otherwise it could end up being the worst mistake of your life.

Regards and good luck,

blinder switch


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## Tachikoma (May 17, 2008)

So you're suggesting me to pay double the price to buy it in Italy?


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## blinder switch (May 17, 2008)

I misread your post.

No way do I think that you should have to pay double.


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## Brigadier (May 17, 2008)

Tachikoma,

Save your money and buy a nice hand held tactical light like a Novatac 120T for use with your Glock. Unless you are LEO or military, I think a *handgun* mounted light is a mixed bag at best. Here's why:

You hear something go bump in the night. You grab your Glock with the flashlight attached to go investigate. You are approaching the source of the noise and shine your light on it to identify it. It is a Police officer that was investigating a burglary call. Now you have just pointed a loaded gun at a cop. Big mistake. A good way to get yourself killed. 

Get a NovaTac and practice the Harries or Thorpe handgun/flashlight technique.


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## RWT1405 (May 17, 2008)

I have to agree with Brigadier on this one. A Novatac 120T or a SF 6P (or Z2, etc.) with a Malkoff M60 (my choice) as a Tactical light with your handgun. I own several handguns capable of mounting a light & none shall ever see a light mounted (at least as long as I own them). 

The only weapons (unless LEO, Military, etc.) that I will put lights on are long guns, and then I will always have a handheld light available. As Brigadier says the last thing you want to do is be holding a weapon (loaded or not, they won't know) pointed at a LEO, in order to use it's light. Now THAT is bad juju. FWIW my 0.02


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## Tao (May 21, 2008)

You saw mine above with the TK10, and here is what it looks like just before I eradicate yet another flesh eating Ginger-Zombie.


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## Brownstone (May 21, 2008)

Brigadier said:


> You hear something go bump in the night. You grab your Glock with the flashlight attached to go investigate. You are approaching the source of the noise and shine your light on it to identify it. It is a Police officer that was investigating a burglary call. Now you have just pointed a loaded gun at a cop. Big mistake. A good way to get yourself killed.



This doesn't make any sense to me. By this logic the cop shouldn't have a light mounted on his handgun either.

Scenario: You are a police officer dispatched to investigate a burglary call. The homeowner, armed with a rifle, is also investigating the noise he heard on his property. You, the police officer, only have a handgun mounted flashlight. Seeing a person in the shadows, you shine your light on that person to identify them. Big mistake. You have just pointed your firearm at the rifle-armed homeowner, forcing him to make the instantaneous decision to shoot you or not. Further, your light has diminished his ability to distinguish your uniform, lessening his chances of identifying you as an officer.

:thinking:


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## BIGIRON (May 21, 2008)

I've never felt the need for a handgun mounted light and feel there are more negatives about them than positives but in the true spirit of CPF you should have both.


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## Brigadier (May 21, 2008)

Brownstone said:


> This doesn't make any sense to me. By this logic the cop shouldn't have a light mounted on his handgun either.
> 
> Scenario: You are a police officer dispatched to investigate a burglary call. The homeowner, armed with a rifle, is also investigating the noise he heard on his property. You, the police officer, only have a handgun mounted flashlight. Seeing a person in the shadows, you shine your light on that person to identify them. Big mistake. You have just pointed your firearm at the rifle-armed homeowner, forcing him to make the instantaneous decision to shoot you or not. Further, your light has diminished his ability to distinguish your uniform, lessening his chances of identifying you as an officer.
> 
> :thinking:


 
First of all, the only LEO's that usually search with a weapon mounted light are SWAT teams, and there are a number of members[not just one cop], and they announce themselves.

Second, the rules for LEO and citizen are different.

Third, as an armed citizen, you are required, and responsible, to identify your target BEFORE you shoot. Same goes for LEO, but they have more leeway.


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## Brownstone (May 21, 2008)

Brigadier said:


> First of all, the only LEO's that usually search with a weapon mounted light are SWAT teams, and there are a number of members[not just one cop], and they announce themselves.


Well, the SWAT team scenario is different from the message I was responding to. That message concerned a homeowner, an officer, and an implied intruder. You are saying therefore that my scenario is moot, that there would *never* be a situation where an individual officer would be using a handgun mounted light.​


Brigadier said:


> "Third, as an armed citizen, you are required, and responsible, to identify your target BEFORE you shoot."


This is patently untrue.

Basically, the legal standard in Colorado that a homeowner is expected to meet before using lethal force is to have a "reasonable belief in the immanent use of physical force by the other person". There is no legal requirement that the target be identified, and having the target shine a light in the homeowner's eyes only reduces the chances of identification.

That standard may, of course, be different in other jurisdictions.​Technically, this whole *handgun*-mounted flashlight discussion isn't one that I should be personally very interested in, as I use a *rifle*-mounted flashlight to investigate bumps in the night. Handgun-mounted lights just aren't that attractive to me.

:shrug:


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## lronchef (May 21, 2008)

I keep my Streamlight TLR-1 on the M&P9 for when it's needed, otherwise, I have my P3D to strobe any badguys if I can grab it AND the gun in a timely manner. First choice is to use the P3D for spotting/strobing and the TLR-1 is backup for when I need two hands.

The wife in the mean time picks up the M91/30 with Bayonet attached and the UK headlamp..if she attacks she is to yell "FOR MOTHER RUSSIA!!!"







Brownstone said:


> There is no legal requirement that the target be identified, and having the target shine a light in the homeowner's eyes only reduces the chances of identification.​



True in California too... What really matters is what the Jury will think...Were you firing indiscriminately through a door or through concealment (a wall) behind which you enjoyed relative safety from immediate bodily injury or death? If there were multiple assailants in your home, then yes, blast away..smartly.

But no, there is no legality in identifying your target..that's more of a gun safety rule..that should ALWAYS apply anyway.


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## lronchef (May 21, 2008)

sorry for the double post..can't figure out how to delete this one..


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## Brigadier (May 21, 2008)

Brownstone said:


> This is patently untrue.
> 
> Basically, the legal standard in Colorado that a homeowner is expected to meet before using lethal force is to have a "reasonable belief in the immanent use of physical force by the other person". There is no legal requirement that the target be identified, and having the target shine a light in the homeowner's eyes only reduces the chances of identification.
> 
> That standard may, of course, be different in other jurisdictions.​


 
I also said the gun owner was responsible to identify the target. That's part of the responsibility that goes along with the right of gun ownership.


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