# help pick Benchmade grip...D2..M2..S30V..440



## 22HERTZ (Jan 24, 2006)

I need a good EDC and I have decided either a BM 707 or BM grip (Ritters look nice) would be good for the price.

Im looking for a plain edge knife

My question is which steel would be best...there are just so many to choose from.

I dont pry or dig, and for the most part baby my knives, but I want a knife on the premise that if SHTF I have a knife thats agile enough to handle survival tasks, yet delicate enough for EDC and general duty.

If the two Im deciding between dont fit my requirements please suggest your top choice...keeping in mind I dont care for Spyderco's opening hole and it needs to be a plain edge.


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## VWTim (Jan 24, 2006)

I've been carrying a BM 551 Grip for a while now and love it. Although I've been waiting for some money to pick up a Ritter Grip.


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## KSH92474 (Jan 24, 2006)

i believe D2 steel(ritters) is one of the best. it used to be used on a auto sandshark and there was a video going around on the internet of the sandshark with the D2 steel cut into a 50 gallon oil barrel. pretty impresive i'd say. anyway, benchmade uses only great steels and never some cheap steel that will break which has a lifetime warrenty so you can pretty much count on all there stuff. i hope this helped


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## CLHC (Jan 24, 2006)

Isn't the D2 more like tool steel? Dozier uses D2s in his builds, and fine ones at that.


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## JimH (Jan 24, 2006)

I carry a full size Ritter Griptillian. I can't imagine carrying anything else. Once you use the axis lock you'll never go back. This is a real workhorse of a knife for a great price. I just sharpened mine last night for the first time in 6 months. Of course it was a wee bit over due. 

I now have no hair on my left forearm




. That's how you can tell I've been sharpening knives . What's the point of caring a knife that doesn't have a razor's edge on it



.


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## KSH92474 (Jan 24, 2006)

yeah, D2 is a tool steel, but used in high quality knives. im looking for the link now of the DKW sandshark biting into that barrel

unfortunately, the steel rusts fairly easily from i read so i wouldn't count on it being worry free. you might want to stick with some other metal. perhaps 154CM or s30v but i dont the griptilian is offered in those is it?


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## 22HERTZ (Jan 24, 2006)

in S30V 

in M2 

in D2 in 440C 

thanks for your responses


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## Topper (Jan 24, 2006)

I vote for D2 steel I love my Dozier knives. D2 is just one percent or 1% less Chromium to get a Stainless rating by the way. Stainless means just that- stains less than knives with lower Chromium a steel needs 13% Chromium to be considered stainless the more Chromium the less it stains and the less likely you can keep it sharp.
Topper


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## CLHC (Jan 24, 2006)

I'm no metallurgist, but of the Benchmade choices that 22Hz is looking for—none is available in ATS-34? Or is that material "inferior" to the others listed here?


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## CobraMan (Jan 24, 2006)

Check out the 670 Apparition - it is an assisted model that might as well be a automatic opener as fast as it is! I believe the stock blade material is 154CM but there is a limited edition NICA version that uses S30V and another that uses Hakkapelitta Damasteel.

I am in the process of trying to buy a 670-501 NICA version with carbon fiber scales and the S30V blade.

Cheers,
Tim


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## mahoney (Jan 24, 2006)

I EDCed the Griptillian in D2 last year. No problems with corrosion, but I was not very impressed with the edge holding ability. I use my knife hard and it seemed I was sharpening the D2 almost as much as I did the 440A knife I alternated with it. The lock and handle are first rate though. I'm trying the Ritter version in S30V now, too soon to say much about it. Of course after I've bought the S30V they have to go and release one in M2. The flat grind of the Ritter blade is nice, but the blade is a bit wide for my taste, it won't "splinter pick" quite as well as the stock Benchmade blade shape.


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## 22HERTZ (Jan 24, 2006)

CobraMan said:


> Check out the 670 Apparition - it is an assisted model that might as well be a automatic opener as fast as it is! I believe the stock blade material is 154CM but there is a limited edition NICA version that uses S30V and another that uses Hakkapelitta Damasteel.
> 
> I am in the process of trying to buy a 670-501 NICA version with carbon fiber scales and the S30V blade.
> 
> ...



That IS a nice knife!
I really need something sheeple friendly though

Post some pics when you get it :naughty:


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## 22HERTZ (Jan 24, 2006)

mahoney said:


> I EDCed the Griptillian in D2 last year. No problems with corrosion, but I was not very impressed with the edge holding ability. I use my knife hard and it seemed I was sharpening the D2 almost as much as I did the 440A knife I alternated with it. The lock and handle are first rate though. I'm trying the Ritter version in S30V now, too soon to say much about it. Of course after I've bought the S30V they have to go and release one in M2. The flat grind of the Ritter blade is nice, but the blade is a bit wide for my taste, it won't "splinter pick" quite as well as the stock Benchmade blade shape.



After you spend a little time with the Ritter I would REALLY apreciate a post on your thoughts about the S30V and blade shape function.

I guess D2 is not as tough as I thought it would be.


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## CLHC (Jan 25, 2006)

That's a sleek and slick looking knife that CobraMan alluded to. I like that 670DM-502.


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## KevinL (Jan 25, 2006)

Was just using my MiniRSK to open another package of lights. Wonderful knife 

Get the mini version in yellow, looks totally innoculous. Nobody actually catches on to what it is.


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## Steve Andrews (Jan 25, 2006)

I prefer the Mini RSK to the 707. I found the 707's handles a little too small and thin. The Mini RSK is also easier to open as you can get a bit more thumb behind the stud.









You can't go wrong with any of the thumbstudded Mini Grips, but the Mini RSK in S30V (Benchmade 558-400) gets my vote - although I have the M2 version on order!
The 525 Mini Presidio is worth a look too. It is built like a tank and feels great in the hand.


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## benh (Jan 25, 2006)

I've been carrying the Mini-RSK for a couple weeks now, replacing my Delica as my EDC knife. Thus far, it's done a fine job with everything I've asked of it, including wire stripping, wire cutting (that's abuse), box opening, rope cutting, ty-rap cutting and cutting innerduct, which is a thick HDPE material, and tough to cut. No appreciable loss of sharpness that I can see yet.

This was my first Benchmade knife. I've EDC'd a Spyderco for over 10 years and always thought it was a fine knife. It is. But the fit and finish of the Benchmade puts it in another category altogether, and I really really like the Axis lock.

I've made a few knife blades from M2 steel (reground power hacksaw blades) and that stuff, if properly hardened, cuts like pure evil and holds an edge. But it is prone to rust.

I didn't much care for the other blade profiles available in the Mini-Griptilian line, but I liked the profile of the Ritter blade, so that made the choice easy for me. That it's also S30V steel was a bonus.

My only two concerns going into this were that I was very used to the thumb hole on the Delica and I felt that the tip on the Ritter might be too blunt for fine work. Turns out that the thumb hole issue was a nonissue, as I got used to the thumbstud very quickly. But the tip is a bit too blunt for fine work, like the splinterpicking Mahoney referenced.

I really like this knife and expect that my Delica will sit in a drawer for a long time.


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## Joe Talmadge (Jan 25, 2006)

For pure performance, M2 is the ticket. It's always coated, and I've never had rust problems. Just wipe the edge occasionally. 

Otherwise, S30V and D2 both perform great. 


Joe


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## xochi (Jan 25, 2006)

IMHO, the best _value_ is likely the base 440c mini grip. Performance gains of s30v over 440c are great in terms of lateral strength but not huge in terms of edge holding. The S30v will be easier to own and more durable. None of the steels should break with normal use.

I've no experience with M2 or D2 but I generally prefer uncoated knives and it really bothers me seeing rust on a blade. Granted , keeping a little oil on em and cleaning it should eliminate most of that but still oil attracts gunk into the knife. If you carry your knife daily and spend anytime working outdoors during the warm months it is likely that your pocket will become a corrosion promoting environment and the s30v or 440c would be best. Honestly, I think that going from the well rounded stainless to the more particular characters of M2 and D2 is more likely to highlight the drawbacks of those steels than the benefits, at least to someone without a ton of experience using different steels in knives. 

If price isn't an issue, and it really is a general use edc tool, get the s30v.

If price is an issue get the base grip.


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## Blades (Jan 25, 2006)

How well can you resharpen a knife?? 
I have been very happy with the D2 Benchmade knives I have owned(use to have a 705D2, now have an 806D2).
The S30V knives I own are very sharp also(if I do say so myself  , maybe not as sharp as Joe Talmadge can get them, but I still try hard). I can keep an excellent edge on most of my knives with my Spyderco double stuff pocket stone.
I don't have a M2 knife, but from what everyone says about them, I wouldn't mind having one. It seems to outperform the D2 and the S30v. So "they" say. 
I think I would lean towards the M2 while it is still available.

I think any knife, if kept sharp, will do its job when needed. Of course some steels will keep that edge longer, but I think we worry more about the new steels, instead of worrying about a sharp blade. I try to touch up my knives every few weeks. My 806D2(PE) and G2 Endura(SE) I touch up every week or two, but they do most of the daily cutting.



CHC said:


> I'm no metallurgist, but of the Benchmade choices that 22Hz is looking for—none is available in ATS-34? Or is that material "inferior" to the others listed here?


 ATS-34 isn't the cool steel to have anymore.  Benchmade use to use it, now they use 154CM, which I think is suppose to be a little cleaner, and is made in the US(I think, somebody will have to verify for me). I have always been happy with my ATS-34 blades(Spyderco or Benchmade).

Good luck, and let us know what you decide.



Blades


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## rscanady (Jan 25, 2006)

I have BM in D2, M2, 440C, and S30V.

I carry my Ritter/s almost every day, get one you wont be disappointed, and if you dont like it, they sell real fast!


I have 2 and love them.

My next fav is my 710HS.


Ryan


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## Hans (Jan 25, 2006)

xochi said:


> Honestly, I think that going from the well rounded stainless to the more particular characters of M2 and D2 is more likely to highlight the drawbacks of those steels than the benefits, at least to someone without a ton of experience using different steels in knives.



I quite like some of the stainless steels on the market nowadays, but M2 can be ground to a slimmer edge geometry, is tougher and takes a finer edge than any of the stainless steels with the possible exception of ZDP-189. Stainless steels have only one advantage over tool steels, they're (more or less) stainless, but that's about it. M2 hardened to RC 64 with a good heat treatment and a good edge geometry runs circles around any knife with a blade made of stainless steel. 

Still, for everyday use a steel like S30V or VG-10 has a lot to offer. You can't really go wrong with either of them.

Hans


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## mateen (Jan 25, 2006)

All I have is the standard Mini (440C) but I have no complaints. I've carried it for over a year now and use it daily both in a warehouse and outdoors. BM's heat-treat on their 440C is top notch so don't worry that the 'standard' steel won't be up to simple tasks! I did convex the edge, not sure if that makes a difference though.


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## Joe Talmadge (Jan 25, 2006)

Hans said:


> I quite like some of the stainless steels on the market nowadays, but M2 can be ground to a slimmer edge geometry, is tougher and takes a finer edge than any of the stainless steels with the possible exception of ZDP-189. Stainless steels have only one advantage over tool steels, they're (more or less) stainless, but that's about it. M2 hardened to RC 64 with a good heat treatment and a good edge geometry runs circles around any knife with a blade made of stainless steel.



Agree. Although BM doesn't harden their M2 to 64 (what do they harden it to these days anyway?), so you're not quite getting exactly what you could out of it. Still, if it's a point or two harder, that'll be noticeable.


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## GarageBoy (Jan 26, 2006)

BTW: ATS34 is japanese version of 154CM, which is the std blade of the grips


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## VWTim (Jan 26, 2006)

GarageBoy said:


> BTW: ATS34 is japanese version of 154CM, which is the std blade of the grips



Are you talking about BM Griptilians? If so they're 440C in standard form. I did just order a D2 Griptilian off Ebay. I'll see how I like it, I really want a Ritter Grip, but got a good deal.


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## Steve Andrews (Jan 26, 2006)

Benchmade are ceasing to produce Grips in 440C. The are going to me "upgraded" to 154CM.
http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=551


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## 22HERTZ (Jan 26, 2006)

I think I would prefer the regular grip blade shape so I have decided I will get either the D2 or 440c version. 

The D2 grip is less than a $20 difference, ouf of those two which would be the better choice?

Ive heard more than one person refer to D2 as "toothy" what does than mean?


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## VWTim (Jan 26, 2006)

Very interesting, I don't think I've ever seem a 154 Grip yet, must be something new for '06.


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## mahoney (Jan 26, 2006)

The carbides in D2 are comparatively large, so the sharpened edge has these "microscopicly large" carbide lumps in it that could be considered as tiny "teeth". Without a mircoscope you won't see them and the only way you'll notice them as a difference between D2 and another steel is if you sharpen the blades to a really fine polished edge. The edge on the D2 blade never really gets as thin (perfect, pointy, whatever) as you can get some other steels, but the carbides are resistant to abrasion so the edge lasts a long time when cutting abrasive materials.

Is D2 worth the extra $20? How much do you use your knife? I sharpen my EDC knife anywhere from twice a month to once every two days, and my 440A knives were simply gone after a couple of years of use. I am trying better steels to see if I can sharpen less often and have a knife that will last longer. 

But 440C is adequate for normal use, and it will take a "finer" edge than D2, it just won't hold it as long.


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## rscanady (Jan 27, 2006)

I have two Ritter grips in S30V and love them, and I just ordered the Ritter in M2 HS also to go with my BM 710HS. 


The basic griptilian is still a worthy knife even at 440C or 154CM! AXIS LOCK ROCKS. Very fast to deploy

YEEHAH!

Ryan


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## John N (Jan 27, 2006)

VWTim said:


> Very interesting, I don't think I've ever seem a 154 Grip yet, must be something new for '06.



I just picked up a 550 Grip at the local cheezy mall knife store. It is 154CM. Oh, and no discount from MSRP. :-( Oh well, that's what you get when you want instant gratification.

I don't really dig the modified sheepsfoot, nor the hole. I would much rather the Ritter RSK version, but you can't buy them locally and I wanted to get one the same day.

I do have a Mini RSK and I really dig the size, the blade shape and the ambi-thumbstuds. 

I also have one of Doug's limited edition M2 Mini RSKs on order. I normally wouldn't have gotten it in M2 as I value stainless here in the northwest, but I just couldn't help myself.

What I really dig is a Mini RSK in ZDP-189, but I guess I'd better not hold my breath. 



22HERTZ said:


> please suggest your top choice...



Oh, to answer your question. Mini RSK in S30V hands down. Very useable blade shape, sturdy flat ground, nice ambi studs, very handy size and S30V is very nice. The price is reasonable for what you get IMO. And the Axis lock rocks, esp. with on the smaller knife. 

-john


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## Blades (Jan 27, 2006)

22HERTZ said:


> I think I would prefer the regular grip blade shape so I have decided I will get either the D2 or 440c version.
> 
> The D2 grip is less than a $20 difference, ouf of those two which would be the better choice?
> 
> Ive heard more than one person refer to D2 as "toothy" what does than mean?



The D2 would be the better choice IMHO.



Blades


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## Topper (Jan 27, 2006)

D2 over 440c? In a heart beat. I guess I don't care what others think, D2 at a 62rockwell will beat any 440c or 440a or 420 or 425m (Buck liked that one)
Chrome kills an edge plain and simple take my word or not it is truth and knife guys know that. No smoke from me and I do not have any reason to lie.
Topper


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## 22HERTZ (Jan 28, 2006)

Does anyone have a pic of the grip beside a mini-grip for size comparison?

You guys have been really helpfull :thanks:


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## Steve Andrews (Jan 28, 2006)

Not quite side by side, but you should get a rough idea.


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