# MR-11 15 LED replacement for bike light



## auroreboreale (Aug 28, 2006)

All:

I live North of 60 in Canada's Yukon territory, where a winter full of 19-hour long nights, is coming.

I bike year round, in the winter using an older 12V ni-cad battery bike helmet light system that uses overhead projector bulbs, one a 12W the other a 20W, for low and combined (32W) high beam. I believe that they are MR-11 bulbs with a lense built into the bulbs.

What I am seeking to replace is a 12Watt, 12 volt, Ushio #100618 FTB/FG overhead projector bulb. The battery pack is 10x1.4V nickel-cadmium 'C' cell batteries=14Volts. 

I am beginning to run out of spares, so I wondered if I might be able to replace the MR-11 12W with a MR-11 LED bulb? As a drop-in replacement with no modifications?

What I need to know from you is whether or not a 15 LED MR-11 bulb rated for "7000mcd/LED" will match the lumens of what I am using now. (My Ushio bulb is not marked as to how many lumens!)

Also, will an LED MR-11 run on 14V DC? There is no regulation, so I guess it pretty quickly falls in voltage. I get about 3 hours burn time out of it. 

Sage Lighting out of Vancouver, BC, Canada makes an MR-11 15 LED. Here's their skeletal website:

http://members.shaw.ca/sagelighting/led_spotlights_and_bulbs_specifi.htm

What do you think?


I am an artist so I hope to keep the cost low. I also need it to work at minus 40C/-40F. What I have got now works well.

Thanks for your help!


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## winny (Aug 28, 2006)

The 15* 7 Cd LED light will not even be close to your halogen MR11 when it comes to output. The runtime will be _much_ longer though.

Yes, it will run on 14 V.


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## Varroa (Aug 28, 2006)

I have a system that runs off 12volts and uses the MR11 bulbs as well. The 20watt bulb is WAY brighter than even a 3 watt luxeon LED (luxeon III). If you need something that is bright and has decent run time I would recommend picking up one of the Princeton tec EOS bike lights. It is the same as the regular EOS but it has a helmet and handlebar clip. It uses 3 AAA batteries, a Luxeon I LED and has great throw. I couldn't find them in Canada so I ordered from here:

http://www.night-gear.com/-strse-91/EOS-Bike-Headlamp-by/Detail.bok

Check out the full product here:

http://www.princetontec.com/products/index.php?id=37&type=0&use=4

I have one and used it as my handlebar light during a 24hour mountain bike race and it worked very well. Night-gear is a good place to order from and it came really fast with no troubles. You can also order the regular PT EOS from MEC (www.mec.ca) in Canada but it only comes with the headstrap (which the bike version is missing but you can add yourself). Let me know if you have anymore questions.


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## snowleopard (Aug 28, 2006)

Just to be clear, the PT Eos puts out much less light than auroreboreale's 32W lights. It is only a 1W light. It may still be a useful adjunct and certainly has a longer battery life. There are other, brighter LED headlamps than the EOS. The gold standard is the Stenlight ($$$) or PT Apex ($$). I suspect that if you're used to 32W, LEDs won't be satisfactory unless you build it yourself. 

Interesting do it yourself link:
BIKE LIGHT 500 Lumen "Mt.Bike" for under 10 bucks by Veggiecycle
http://www.instructables.com/id/E3BGQT6Y7PEP286N6P/

You might ask for advice on the homemade and modding forum (or LED forum) on what to do to make your own Luxeon LED light). I suppose with a helmet mount of some sort you could do a couple of 3W or 5W Luxeons and get some respectable lumens.

Lots of 12V MR11 if you search google. Maybe you can mount a separate lens; or look for other model overhead projector bulbs that may work. 

--Walter


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## auroreboreale (Aug 29, 2006)

Thanks All!

I have to stick with what I have, as the battery pack is worn at the waist under a clothing layer to keep it from freezing. I am also not gifted at modifying electronics. Still, I will see what LED MR-11's I can come up with. Sage in Canada says that their 15 LED MR-11 cannot be run at above 12V.

Enlightenment!


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## auroreboreale (Aug 30, 2006)

I am gradually finding on-line sources for 12V MR-11 LED's, mostly from Germany. What I did stumble on at a manufacturer's website is the brightness equation of roughly 24 LEDs in an MR-11 would give the equivalent light to a 15W halogen MR-11. So that is what I am looking for. Any leads would be appreciated!


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## winny (Aug 30, 2006)

auroreboreale said:


> Sage in Canada says that their 15 LED MR-11 cannot be run at above 12V.



Bullshit. It's just LEDs in series with resistors so when the voltage goes up, so does the current.




auroreboreale said:


> What I did stumble on at a manufacturer's website is the brightness equation of roughly 24 LEDs in an MR-11 would give the equivalent light to a 15W halogen MR-11.



Qualified bullshit.

24 LEDs running at 20 mA would be 1.8 W. With 50 lm/W (over-estimate), you are left with 88 lumen. 15 W halogen running at 15 lm/W (under-estimate) leave you with 225 lumen.


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## Varroa (Aug 30, 2006)

auroreboreale said:


> I am gradually finding on-line sources for 12V MR-11 LED's, mostly from Germany. What I did stumble on at a manufacturer's website is the brightness equation of roughly 24 LEDs in an MR-11 would give the equivalent light to a 15W halogen MR-11. So that is what I am looking for. Any leads would be appreciated!


 
I have a 24 LED headlight and the light is no where near as bright as even my 10 watt halogen (I would say maybe a 1/4 as bright). Don't believe those claims about a 24LED MR-11 being as bright as a 15watt halogen, it is just impossible.


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## auroreboreale (Aug 30, 2006)

Thanks everybody! 

I am open to any suggestions for sources for a drop-in MR-11 LED replacement that would be equal in light emitted to a 10W 12V Mr-11 Halogen!

If not, I can always just keep using overhead projector bulbs!

If nothing else, being on a helmet light, they slightly warm up my head!
Well, not enough to notice!

Enlightenment!


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## winny (Aug 30, 2006)

You could of couse convert it to use high powered LEDs like Luxeon III:s but it will be much more expensive and you won't gain much.

The reason why your head heats up is bacuse 99% of all MR11 and MR16 use dichotic mirrors which reflects heat backwards and light forward. If you can, try wrap your MR16 with aluminium foil. CPFer Spacemarine did just that. I'll try to find some pictures for you.


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## auroreboreale (Sep 6, 2006)

*More LED Bike Helmet Light Options In October*

All: I have not had a lot of luck finding 12W equivalent MR-11 bulbs with a glass face-plate. In fact, there is very little out there which comes close to even 10W in LED MR-11's. As well, my ni-cad battery pack for my MR-11 light has finally died. 

While I am looking at a custom battery pack replacement, I found out that Nite Hawk, a Canadian company, is coming out with what looks like a 4xAA Nimh LED light which is said to rival 12-15W Halogen lights, in October. You can see images of it online if you go to the MEC.ca website and under the "catalogue" section download the new winter catalogue in PDF.

The burn time is listed as 4.75 hours on high, and the beam is 12 degrees wide. Toggling to lower intensities and wink modes is possible as well. The bulb or headlight pod is signficantly smaller than previous Emitter lights, with a new electronic switch which is easier to use with mittens on. It is also made of aluminum, which must be a better heat-dissipator, as Nite Hawk says that it will actually work somewhat more efficiently at lower temperatures. Hence, the LED may be high-temperature limited.

The new custom battery pack has an intelligent charger which is easy to connect and disconnect, as opposed to having to take the AA cells out of the existing Emitter battery pack, not something us daily commuters liked to do. So it looks well-thought out.

I spend most of my biking using 12W Halogen bulb to get around, so this may do the trick for me. It is also about half (1.2kg) the weight of what I am using now. My only concern is will it be bright enough?

Enlightenment!


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## Varroa (Sep 6, 2006)

I've tried some of the Nighthawk's LED lights before (The standard one that they say is equivalent to a 10 watt halogen). Although the light is very bright there is absolutley no spill and you get such a narrow spot that you are almost blind except for a 1 foot wide circle infront of you. Try out this new one before purchasing before you make your decision.


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## auroreboreale (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks All! 

I have found that the Nite Hawk Emitter 4XAA as a helmet light is just enough for bike commuting. Since I live in the Subarctic I cannot easily try stuff before buying; however if I buy it from MEC.ca the return policy is pretty generous, though our postage, which starts at $11 does make one pause!

Meanwhile until I can find more out about the Night Hawk K2 I will use the Emitter with 2 sets of NimH 2500mah AA cells, and charge and swap them out each night to try and keep them up to the task!

vélorution!


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## Varroa (Sep 8, 2006)

I can't speak for the new K2 version but having tried the Regular Night-Hawk 4xAA emitter and the Princeton Tec EOS bike I would choose the EOS anyday. The EOS is smaller, weighs less, brighter, better spill and costs less delivered to your door (I got it for about $42 delivered to my door form the link I provided above). Plus it only uses 3 AAA batteries vs 4 AAs. It comes with both a handlebar and helmet mount as well.

Which ever one you get good luck and enjoy!


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## auroreboreale (Sep 17, 2006)

All: Thanks for your help. I have decided to get a new custom battery pack for my existing 1993 MR-11 Halogen 12+22W helmet light system. I know that this works at -40C/F. I will let you all know what I can find out about the Nite Hawk K2. I have a feeling that in another 3 years when this nicad pack for my MR-11 system dies, LED's will be a mature system choice for helmet lights!

enlightenment!


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## sshannon (Sep 20, 2006)

Hello,

Just a heads up. I just recieved my Nite Hawk K2 from MEC 2 days ago and took it out for a spin last night. It's great, although I don't have a halogen to compare against. The packaging says 740 lumens, 20 watt halogen equivalent. The 740 must be a typo, as I would think it supposed to read 140 lumen. 

It is now on their website for purchase: www.mec.ca. 

sshannon


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## auroreboreale (Sep 22, 2006)

Sshannon:

Thanks for reminding us all about the K2. If you have time I would appreciate it if you could tell me whether the K2 is bright enough to let you see a coat-hanger on dark pavement (no streetlights!) at about 10M. Or, if it won't do that, at what distance can you pick out a soft drink can in total darkness?
Are you using your K2 as a helmet-light? As well, is the switch on the lamp head easy to use wearing 3-5mm thick gloves, or even super-thick (5cm!) mittens?

You are the first I have heard who has bought one, so let us know what you think!

I triggered an MEC-wide recall on an Ni-Mh headlamp about 4 years ago which had a mis-matched battery-charger, and postage is $11 to return stuff, so I try to be pretty cautious!


vélorution!


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## cullumma (Sep 26, 2006)

Can this new Nite Hawk K2 be easily used with rechargeable AAs? Or does anyone know what replacement costs are for the new proprietary battery pack?

I was disappointed to find that it didn't take standard rechargeables - my main reason to look for a replacement for my 15w halogen (Planet Bike Insight) is that the proprietary NiMh battery lost its ability to hold a charge over a single winter of commuting (in the UK.) I have a second Insight set which still works fine, having only been used occasionally.

Now that I'll be commuting in Ottawa, I expect the colder weather to be even harder on any battery.

Since most of the cost of the light set is the battery pack, I'd rather go for something with cheap batteries. I only need enough run time for my 18km commute, but I do need a comparable amount of light to the 15w halogen; most of my ride is on completely unlit paths and I can't go quickly enough (with my eyes) if I have less light.

Thanks!


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## SocalSuperhero (Oct 3, 2006)

First off, longtime lurker at CPF, but this is the first time that I've felt like I can contribute something worthwhile enough to post.

Bit of background. I live in the mountains and night ride and race mountain bikes extensively through the summer and back country ski at night in the winter. I was in the same boat as you earlier this spring in that I was looking for an led based replacement for my lights. I was running a dual mr11 halogen bar mounted system (marwi nightpro). 

Long story short, I was unable to find anything suitable and so I began making something that would work. What I ended up with is a pcb with 19 5mm “50,000mcd” leds that fit as a drop in replacement for most mr11 halogen setups. I have been impressed with them, as have others who ride with them. 

Confession time. I’ll tell you the same thing that others have said. You won’t get an mr11 sized led package that will replace a 12watt halogen. However, running two of these are a plausible replacement for a 10-12watt halogen.


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## auroreboreale (Oct 11, 2006)

All: Thanks for your tips. I went ahead and replaced my massive ni-cad 12V battery for my existing MR-11 set up.

Cullumen, I have had bad experiences with Planet Bike Nimh cells not being matched to chargers, so be wary! I was behind a Mtn equipment Co-op recall of same.

As for cold-weather commuting, I put my battery in a foam-padded snap-top plastic sandwich box worn in a fanny pack under my clothing, which helps keep the battery warm in extreme conditions. Evidently this works best with a helmet-light set up!

Nite Hawk hawk has more info on their site on the K-2 now---here is the link:

http://www.nite-hawk.com/bikeemitter.html

We are expecting snow this weekend, and local sunrise above the mountains is already 0930, so it is helmet-light season!

enlightenment!


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## Doh!Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Morning all
I thought I would post the below as a cheap and cheerfull bike light

It is a 7.2v Tamiya battery connected to a vistalite head unit with a 6v 10watt bulb. THe battery is in a neoprene sleeve that is velcroed to the frame
I got the head unit for £24 including bulb. The battery and charger were effectively free as I had them already. The bulb is over driven but as still going on 20 hours of use.
If I were to do it again I would use a Cateye head unit as they are better build quality but dont come with bulb or switch. £5 for the plastic version £17 for the alloy one from Wiggle.co.uk
Runtime is over an hour but I only have an old 2Ah battery, With a 4.3Ah version I think 2.5 hours is a reasonable expectation.
Nick


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## Doh!Nut (Nov 13, 2006)

I just realised I didnt even try to answer your question.
Lumicycle have the closest to what you asked for but is not cheap.
I know their standard head unit uses MR-11 bulbs. I believe that you can put their LED unit into their standard head unit - but I dont know if their LED unit will fit in your lights

http://www.lumicycle.com/Product/product2.aspx?product=LED15UNIT&dep=87

Nick


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## AndyTiedye (Nov 13, 2006)

SocalSuperhero said:


> Confession time. I’ll tell you the same thing that others have said. You won’t get an mr11 sized led package that will replace a 12watt halogen.



What if you put a Cree XR-E in it?


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