# Where Have the Good Threads Gone? CPF Kinda Boring Lately?



## nbp (Dec 31, 2013)

I feel like there aren't a lot of cool threads to read and participate in lately and I'm kinda bored. Most of the Customs subforums and other collecting threads I like to read are super quiet, not much going, and many of the threads in the Flashlight forums seem to be the same old "hey I need 1500 lumens real cheap" bit; or "new LED in ABC123 light should I replace the one I already have?" Even the reviews forum is mostly weird blinky lights I have no interest in. 

Where are the discussions of the old classic lights, neat LEGOs, high quality lights that really give you satisfaction every time you pull them out, or stories of actually using lights and such? Am I missing the good stuff somewhere or does the discussion just seem very superficial and consumerist lately?




Edit: Just edited a bit since the thread was moved.


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## Fast LT1 (Dec 31, 2013)

I'm with you bro, this place has turned into a light recommendation forum.


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## Lampbeam (Dec 31, 2013)

Where have all the flowers gone, long time passing?
Where have all the flowers gone, long time ago?
Where have all the flowers gone?
Young girls have picked them everyone.
Oh, when will they ever learn?
Oh, when will they ever learn? 

Consumerist is a good word. I'm guilty, sorry. I feel I have learned some things in my short time here though. For example, I didn't know alkaline batteries aren't optimal for use in flashlights. 1500 lumens does seem high to me. That would really disturb the neighbors walking the dog. A little like a train coming down the sidewalk at you. With all due respect for your 5,000+ posts. Happy New Year.


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## nbp (Dec 31, 2013)

There is certainly tons of good info still being dispensed here, I still love the community so I don't want to make it seem like it I don't. I just don't want it to become all about buying buying buying. I am guilty of it too at times. I'd like to work to change the culture a bit though.


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## AnAppleSnail (Jan 1, 2014)

Are lights getting too good? At the box hardware store down the street, I've got a dozen choices under $30 that are technically impressive.

My work EDC is one such. I've learned that replacing the work EDC alternating years hurts less than killing a nice light. The new MiniMag is plenty capable for work... No custom mod needed. I could use a flashlight I upgraded, added sweet glow powder to, and so on... But the stock lights are good enough that I didn't need to spend time swapping parts.

That reduces my connection to the light. I made a Dorcy 2D light into a 50W MR11 host last year. It inspired people at the plant to get decent lights, and they were all stock lights. Has the improvement here tamed the frontier enough to make boring flashlights a practical option?


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## mcnair55 (Jan 1, 2014)

Quite agree the forum is becoming "I need a light for" just because you are to bone idle to search yourself or it is scare stories for using Bogey Man batteries like 18650,s.


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## orbital (Jan 1, 2014)

+

once things become super mainstream, it kinda loses its soul




__________


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## Stress_Test (Jan 1, 2014)

Nbp,

It's not just you. The same thing has been on my mind as of late. In the time I've joined, the forum has gone downhill and now just seems a shadow of its former self. There used to be all kinds of random stories of people actually _using_ their lights, along with thread topics about oddball stuff/events, goofy mods, humor, etc etc. Much more entertaining than things are now. Part of the reason is that many of the old-timers and other interesting people are gone. 

As to WHY the forum has reached this condition.... well, I've got an opinion on that, but I'll keep it to myself!


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## BarryG (Jan 1, 2014)

Carrot used to have links in his signature of interesting threads. I spent a long time reading through them. 





Barry


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## nbp (Jan 1, 2014)

Yeah if you hunt through older threads there are many cool reads. It would be nice to get back to some of that friendly discussion. 

I like the talks about various usage applications, low light usage, user interfaces, long-time EDCs, toughness and reliabilty in real world situations, home-made accessories and add-ons and simple mods/experiments, that sort of thing. But there isn't a lot of that fun discussion. Mostly just lumens and throw, lumens and throw. 

Let's get real: the Fenix P3D I bought in 2007 was plenty bright for anything I needed and I have maybe one light even now 6 years later with higher output that than light and I survive quite easily. Lights have been amply bright for years. It's like locker room comparisons sometimes these days. I'm bored with it. 

Recently, someone posted a cool thread about their 10 year old Arc LS that had been an EDC ever since. Very cool thread! But it only got a couple posts because hardly anyone cares anymore about an old beat up 60 lm light that hasn't been made in years. And that is sad. I would love to see more threads like that.


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## gravelmonkey (Jan 1, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> *Quite agree the forum is becoming "I need a light for" just because you are to bone idle to search yourself or *it is scare stories for using Bogey Man batteries like 18650,s.



+1. Though concern for the 18650's is healthy, especially the [email protected] on ebay/amazon when combined with the god awful quality chargers.


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## blah9 (Jan 1, 2014)

I also read through all those stories from Carrot's thread, and they were great. Maybe people these days just haven't been going on as many adventures as they used to? I don't know. I do agree that it would be really interesting if more stories were shared.


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## scout24 (Jan 1, 2014)

Well, here goes nothing...  (Gets Flame suit on) I think as time goes on, you get a younger demographic that is much more instant-gratification oriented and lacking the social filter, deference, and patience that a few years of age and wisdom can bring. Not to paint with too broad a brush, there are certainly many exceptions. When you were raised on "Google it!", the idea of opening a reference book after finding it in the library seems quaint, and a waste of time. Easier to post a thread hoping for answers... Hobbies also tend to come and go, making long-term involvement fleeting. May seem funny with 2700+ posts, but I read and researched WAY more in five years than I have posted. I was actually a bit nervous the first few times I posted in the McGizmo and Cool Fall subforums, WAY outta my league, man...  Might be worth bumping a few of Carrot's old threads: Brightness isn't Everything, The Incan Challenge, The 5mm Challenge, etc... Those are some of my all-time favorites.  On the plus side, if CPF isn't rocking and rolling, my wallet is a bit happier...


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm with you for the most part. There are just too many damn lights now being pumped out by the thousands. 

However, I have to say the AquaRam and AquaMule really got my juices flowing. Not much discussion about them simply bc not that many folks own them. 

I do miss the 2006-2009 era where CPF seemed like the bar "Cheers" IMO. It was a lot of fun. 

(I have two daughters now so my cash flow has come to a slow trickle on the flashlight side of things so this is a factor for my personal forum experience, that 'cash burning a hole in my flashlight pocket' feeling of what to buy next)


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## BarryG (Jan 1, 2014)

Here is Carrot's story collection for those who are new and have not seen it. Hope he doesn't mind me sharing it...
<If so, PM me Carrot and I will edit my post>
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?102580-Flashlight-Story-Collection





Barry


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## calipsoii (Jan 1, 2014)

Why not start a 'good' thread yourself then nbp? I'm not being facetious, I'm being serious.

The internet as a whole has gotten to the point where every person has it in their pocket. Every person has 5 minutes to check their phone and read a funny quote or look at a cat picture. There are more consumers of content than I've ever remembered seeing, and there simply aren't that many creators of content.

As an example: your thread. You ask for new, exciting content. You're a content consumer, and you're certainly not alone, since everyone else on this forum is also here to consume content (myself included).

So with all these consumers, who is creating content? I agree with you that lately, there simply aren't that many original content creators. I don't count 'recommend me a light for <x>' posts as content. I define content as someone bringing something new to the table. I don't need to see the same thing, I've already seen it! So asking for the very best 1xAA light when that question has been asked and answered 1000x before isn't really new content.

There are people doing cool things on this forum. McGizmo has a new light and converter. Vinh is busy cranking out mods on existing lights. TGWNN has a few irons in the fire with his MBI series. I've been watching all of these threads (and more) with interest. run4jc still occasionally posts one of his reviews, which I always enjoy. Same too with selfbuilt.

My biggest problem with CPF lately is that I LOVE reading build logs, and people simply aren't documenting their work anymore. There are still people building and modding lights, but often times all I'll see is a picture of the end result, some beamshots, and a price tag. That's really disappointing to me since most of these projects were WAY more work than that. I want to see the light being opened up, the guts being ripped out, and new pieces being made. I want to follow along with the UI programming and learn why it's being done that way. I want to see all the work (the successes _and _the failures) that went into finishing a project.

I understand why more projects aren't documented this way though, and the reason is pretty simple. If you give everyone on the internet the blueprint to create your product, someone else will make it cheaper. It's just a fact and it totally sucks. There are always individuals who work for flashlight manufacturers looking for 'inspiration' on these forums (sometimes they just come right out and ask for it on the Marketplace). I remember seeing a 'Torpedo' being sold on a large overseas distributor website that looked _identical _to the one TGWNN hadn't even finished prototyping yet. So can you blame him that he's keeping the real nitty-gritty of the design process mostly to himself?

Anyways, back to my original point: you can make the content you want to see. It can be something really small, like a review of your favorite light. Or you can attach a 5mm LED to a battery and document the process. If you do that, and someone else does that, and someone else does that - well, now we have content creators writing about things they're passionate about.

I'm making a light. It's the true definition of a labor of love because any sane man would have abandoned this bloody project ages ago, bought a $50 Nitecore, and never looked back. I'm documenting it just the best I can and you're welcome to follow along if you'd like! I really like build logs, I want to see more build logs on CPF, and I'm helping by posting my own build log. 

Now it's your turn to pick something that you feel passionate about and just start writing about it. You and I and everyone else can fill CPF with the kind of content we like to read.


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## nbp (Jan 1, 2014)

Fair points Calipsoii. I certainly could do more, and I will try to do so. I can try to come up with some interesting ideas. 

In my defense, I have started 98 threads in my time here. Granted, some were sales and some were just dumb thread ideas, but some were good. I have reviewed a couple of my favorite lights, started a few collection threads for my favorite makers, wrote an adventure survival thread, a homebrewing thread (really thought that one would have caught on) started discussions on the reliability of different lights and knives, shared some stories of flashlight use and abuse... Considering I don't have much technical skill to mod or build lights myself and document it or even give advice to others trying to mod, I do try to offer other content where I can. :sigh:

Maybe I will peruse some of the old threads for ideas. It seems after some years things tend to come back in style so maybe there are a few worth recycling.


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## jtr1962 (Jan 1, 2014)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> once things become super mainstream, it kinda loses its soul





orbital said:


> +
> 
> Most interesting threads get removed before any juices are flowing.
> 
> *Things have become way too sensitive & politically correct.*


Agree with both these things here. A lot of great topics which used to be make for great threads are now off limits. And yes, once things become mainstream a lot is lost. We now have hundreds of models of LED flashlights which all look and function similarly, for example. I'll also add the technologies in a rapid state of flux are really those which make for interesting hobbies. Now that LED development is starting to approach its theoretical limits things are slowing down quite a bit. It's sort of like hard drives a while back. It was exciting when drives were doubling in capacity each year. Once we hit a few hundred GB things started to slow down to maybe 30% capacity increases per year. Now we're at the point where it took a few years to go from 3 TB to 4 TB drives, and there's really no credible roadmap to get all that much further. Of course, now you have SSDs on a steep development curve so things are still interesting on the storage front.

I don't have a crystal ball for what new technologies will make for interesting discussion but suffice it to say lots of things are going on in labs which will radically change things. 3D printing is but one example. It's not yet mainstream, but it's out of the lab and at a state where rapid development is occurring. And then I think we're on the crux of major developments in solid-state cooling, energy storage, human-powered transportation, and perhaps even better means than chemical rockets to explore space. In the end civilization probably benefits more from _evolutionary_ development but it's the revolutionary development which makes us passionate.


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## Skimo (Jan 1, 2014)

There's a lot for someone like me to learn by reading around here as well as entertainment.

Eventually like knives I'll end up modding or pimping out lights, the trouble is that I've done documentaries on my process. While I understand enjoying the entertainment and sharing the work, most of the time I do the work for myself.

I would say become a content creator and make a friendly challenge to others to show their work.

Another thing to keep in mind is that like most hobbies only a small percentage will do the customizing or building while the rest find what they like and use them, mostly silently.


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## idleprocess (Jan 1, 2014)

calipsoii said:


> My biggest problem with CPF lately is that I LOVE reading build logs, and people simply aren't documenting their work anymore. There are still people building and modding lights, but often times all I'll see is a picture of the end result, some beamshots, and a price tag. That's really disappointing to me since most of these projects were WAY more work than that. I want to see the light being opened up, the guts being ripped out, and new pieces being made. I want to follow along with the UI programming and learn why it's being done that way. I want to see all the work (the successes _and _the failures) that went into finishing a project.



I certainly don't do well-crafted custom lights nor impressive mods, but can say that documenting a project can be a _pain_. You're sloppily sketching out concepts that only make sense to you, laying out a pattern on some scratch paperboard, headscratching in front of a tool, stripping wires, inhaling solder fumes, mixing up epoxy, standing on ladders, scrapping a piece of material you messed up, crimping connectors, etc, _and_ occasionally remembering to take photos or make mental notes of what you did. Then you distill that down to a forum post and wait for responses that make the posting effort worthwhile ... responses that sometimes don't come, are annoying, or ask questions you answered in the first post.


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## jtr1962 (Jan 1, 2014)

idleprocess said:


> I certainly don't do well-crafted custom lights nor impressive mods, but can say that documenting a project can be a _pain_. You're sloppily sketching out concepts that only make sense to you, laying out a pattern on some scratch paperboard, headscratching in front of a tool, stripping wires, inhaling solder fumes, mixing up epoxy, standing on ladders, scrapping a piece of material you messed up, crimping connectors, etc, _and_ occasionally remembering to take photos or make mental notes of what you did. Then you distill that down to a forum post and wait for responses that make the posting effort worthwhile ... responses that sometimes don't come, are annoying, or ask questions you answered in the first post.


You're right, and this is coming from someone who has done a lot of DIY projects. It interrupts the work flow to try and document everything, so often I just stop to take pictures at each major step, like I did in this thread, or this one.


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## calipsoii (Jan 1, 2014)

nbp said:


> Fair points Calipsoii. I certainly could do more, and I will try to do so. I can try to come up with some interesting ideas.
> 
> In my defense, I have started 98 threads in my time here. Granted, some were sales and some were just dumb thread ideas, but some were good. I have reviewed a couple of my favorite lights, started a few collection threads for my favorite makers, wrote an adventure survival thread, a homebrewing thread (really thought that one would have caught on) started discussions on the reliability of different lights and knives, shared some stories of flashlight use and abuse... Considering I don't have much technical skill to mod or build lights myself and document it or even give advice to others trying to mod, I do try to offer other content where I can. :sigh:
> 
> Maybe I will peruse some of the old threads for ideas. It seems after some years things tend to come back in style so maybe there are a few worth recycling.



No need to say "in my defense" nbp! It wasn't my intent to put you on the defensive, I was hoping to inspire yourself and others to take the charge instead of calling for change. As you've said, you've started many interesting threads here already and I'm sure you have a few more in you. 

You're right that CPF lacks the intrepid experimentation that used to be so prevalent here. Most of that is because every flashlight has been built and can be bought online and shipped to your house in a couple days for < $70. The hobby is mainstream now and there's no going back.

My hopes for the forum are that people will decide to make their own instead of buying from someone else, and that they'll take the time to document and share what they've done.


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## ledmitter_nli (Jan 2, 2014)

I haven't been creating new topics for awhile








Having found my grail quad XP-G2 single 18650 light months ago, and knowing its output wont be bested to any significant degree for quite some time, marveling isn't needed anymore.

I also got a new tablet, so I've been hanging out on the tablet forums lately really digging in on how to hack and desuck windows 8.1


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## Monocrom (Jan 2, 2014)

I spend much of my time warning newbies about the dangers of CR123 lithium primaries. That's the main thing I post nowadays.


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## Jay R (Jan 2, 2014)

I go with the fact that there is nothing ‘new’ in the hobby anymore.
 
 When I started posting here around 10 years back, high power LED’s were just arriving. Everyone was talking about the Nuwai Q3 ( Remember that one..). Batteries were just starting to get good with available rechargeable lithium cells and Nicads were old hat compared to the new Ni-MH cells. Nobody else but us had any LED lights and ours were SO much more impressive we received kuodos for having such a cool light from our friends. For the next 8 years every new light was a big advancement over the last. More lumens, better battery life, adjustable, programmable, smaller, brighter, control rings, strobe, HA3 coating, titanium bodies, etc…
 The past few years, it’s all gone a bit dead. There are no big steps forward in light output anymore, batteries haven’t become much better, coatings haven’t moved on at all. Anyone can walk into a shop and pick up a 200 lumen plus LED light for an affordable price meaning that, to them, there is nothing ‘special’ anymore about our lights. Even if LED and battery technology got to the point where you could get 10,000 lumens and 6 hours runtime out of a light the size of a Coke can, it’s not really going to look ‘that’ much better than a $40 Skyray knocking out 2,200 lumens.
 
 Sure, if you are a collector there are still nice lights coming out but most of us don’t have that sort of money and is your titanium McGizmo really any more impressive to the untrained eye than any commercially available light. Probably not.
 
I suspect that over the next year or two this forum will become the place for Connoisseurs of high quality, limited edition lights. Who else is going to want to talk about lights to the same extent when everyone can go buy a fully adjustable, 1,000 lumen, waterproof light in the corner shop for thirty bucks?


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## degarb (Jan 2, 2014)

Because I come here for the efficiency revolution, and because some of these may make it to lighting world directly, I would like to see a sub-forum, which would be fascinating: *Alternative Energy Production (carbon myths, to thorium, to fuel cells, to cold fusion, to solar and wind)!*

While the led march toward 200lpw seems slow, there is the silicon technology. To me, the most interesting topic of late is the glaring problems I see in LiIons that don't seem addressed: labeling, some common standard for the pcb quality and what it does & making them damage proof by epoxy setting them onto cell, shipping without plastic case, perhaps the vent mechanism could be better to avoid any explosion, simple user manual with cells (which would warn for multimeter/current range/cell damage/charger warning, simplifying care warning (heat, charge state, shorts), reviews that force light makers to do a better job at house all 18650 size variations (like springs on pos and neg). Once these issues are solved, liion will be boring again. 


I don't visit the cafe much, as jtr1962 points out, in this forum especially, all we are left with is mundane drivel. There is meaning, history, and purpose of the word, "forum".


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## jtr1962 (Jan 2, 2014)

degarb said:


> Because I come here for the efficiency revolution, and because some of these may make it to lighting world directly, I would like to see a sub-forum, which would be fascinating: Alternative energy production (carbon myths, to thorium, to fuel cells, to cold fusion, to solar and wind).


Same here. I think this will be an area of great interest as the world starts transitioning off fossil fuels. Along those lines, I for one would like to know if the ECAT generator is for real because if it is, I'm not seeing why we should be using anything else for power.


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## Stress_Test (Jan 2, 2014)

I want to know where all the power-outage related threads are. Lately in the US there have been lots of storms and power outages, and I keep looking for threads from CPF members detailing their light usage stories, but I haven't seen anything! 

A power outage used to be the "holy grail" of flashaholism! 

Maybe everybody now has generators and a power outage doesn't affect them at all 

Outages are very rare in my neighborhood, but back in 2011(?) the power was out for about 5 days and I wrote a long review of that incident. 

Another thing, remember when people used to post photos of beamshots when they were out and about with their lights? Seems like you hardly ever see that sort of thing anymore. That was one of the cool aspects of the forum; you'd see photos of interesting places lit up at night by flashlight and read a story to go with it. Some of the best were the "urban explorer" stories, but I think eventually everybody who posted one of those topics was banned!


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## BVH (Jan 2, 2014)

Just in case you have - don't overlook the HID and spotlight sub forum. Some interesting mods and builds going on there. Read the entire NightSword build thread. What a great piece of work!

I still find CPF as interesting now as when I joined in 2004.


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## subwoofer (Jan 2, 2014)

This thread caught my eye in the list of 'What's New' which is how I pick up on new discussions.

As a user of several forums, I see the two main trends being covered by Jay R's and calipsoii's posts.



Jay R said:


> I go with the fact that there is nothing ‘new’ in the hobby anymore.
> 
> The past few years, it’s all gone a bit dead. There are no big steps forward in light output anymore, batteries haven’t become much better, coatings haven’t moved on at all. Anyone can walk into a shop and pick up a 200 lumen plus LED light for an affordable price meaning that, to them, there is nothing ‘special’ anymore about our lights. Even if LED and battery technology got to the point where you could get 10,000 lumens and 6 hours runtime out of a light the size of a Coke can, it’s not really going to look ‘that’ much better than a $40 Skyray knocking out 2,200 lumens.
> 
> ...



Specifically regarding CPF, we are reaching a point of saturation and a slowing of improvements. The absolute difference between the more specialist lights and the normal consumer lights has narrowed to the point that our interest is no longer in such a specialist area.



calipsoii said:


> Why not start a 'good' thread yourself then nbp? I'm not being facetious, I'm being serious.
> 
> The internet as a whole has gotten to the point where every person has it in their pocket. Every person has 5 minutes to check their phone and read a funny quote or look at a cat picture. There are more consumers of content than I've ever remembered seeing, and there simply aren't that many creators of content.



Taking the wider view over many forums, I think calipsoii has hit the nail on the head. Too many people simply want to take, or are too lazy to do some research first and then post new content. 

I've also notice a trend, which I find really quite annoying, where a person has read your thread and then asks a question which has already been answered in the original post. So not only are they too lazy to do any research themselves, but are too lazy to read the post fully first.

I believe this is also a product of 'mobile' internet use on tablets/phones etc. If you have bothered to sit at a computer and have a proper keyboard, you will spend more time searching and much more time writing. When using tablets, writing becomes laborious and people don't bother to post at all, or create very short posts. The very nature of our internet access is having a major effect on the input of forum user content.

On my smart phone, I do read new replies to my threads, but always wait until I can sit at a PC to reply. This forewarning I get by reading the reply on my phone allows me to think about my reply more and this makes me more productive for the limited time I have to sit in front of the PC. The smart phone / tablet helps me be more efficient, but is no substitute for sitting at a PC workstation to post content.


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## Stress_Test (Jan 2, 2014)

subwoofer said:


> I believe this is also a product of 'mobile' internet use on tablets/phones etc. If you have bothered to sit at a computer and have a proper keyboard, you will spend more time searching and much more time writing. When using tablets, writing becomes laborious and people don't bother to post at all, or create very short posts. The very nature of our internet access is having a major effect on the input of forum user content.
> 
> On my smart phone, I do read new replies to my threads, but always wait until I can sit at a PC to reply. This forewarning I get by reading the reply on my phone allows me to think about my reply more and this makes me more productive for the limited time I have to sit in front of the PC. The smart phone / tablet helps me be more efficient, but is no substitute for sitting at a PC workstation to post content.



I second this. The same thing has occurred to me.

I recently read/skimmed through all 100+ pages of the "what did you use your flashlight for today?" thread. There were a few good stories, but the VAST majority of posts were one-liners to the effect of "to walk my dog", or "to go to the bathroom", or "to find something I dropped under the desk". It reads like a twitter feed. Totally boring!


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## Empath (Jan 2, 2014)

Orbital,
This thread is an excellent thread, and is capable of holding interest and offering opportunity to voice reasonable concerns and solutions to aspects of an evolving hobby, industry, and personal interest board. Unfortunately, your postings (which have been removed) deal with something other than those concerns. Your postings are the simple whining about administrative moderation that plagues many topical boards and require the housekeeping involved in keeping boards sociably favorable. Our board, CPF, has a rule that addresses that situation. This isn't surprising to you, I'm sure, since you have on occasion been reminded of it. Likely, since the application of that rule seems to be the focus of your now removed posts, you might want to read that rule. In addition to remembering that The Underground is a designated place for posting such concerns, *rule 8* itself offers the reasons and methods of addressing the concerns.

Feel free to continue to offer contributions to this fascinating thread, but continued attempts to turn the thread into a whine about administrative policy and moderation will likely be dealt with in a manner not to your liking.


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## AnAppleSnail (Jan 2, 2014)

Stress_Test said:


> I second this. The same thing has occurred to me.
> 
> I recently read/skimmed through all 100+ pages of the "what did you use your flashlight for today?" thread. There were a few good stories, but the VAST majority of posts were one-liners to the effect of "to walk my dog", or "to go to the bathroom", or "to find something I dropped under the desk". It reads like a twitter feed. Totally boring!



I handed my flashlight to a machine operator so that he could line up a film unwinder with the other layers of fabric about six feet inside a lamination machine. Which category is that?


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## Stress_Test (Jan 2, 2014)

AnAppleSnail said:


> I handed my flashlight to a machine operator so that he could line up a film unwinder with the other layers of fabric about six feet inside a lamination machine. Which category is that?




Ask yourself, if someone else wrote that, would you enjoy reading it? Would you read it and think it was interesting, or would you skim that line without a second thought? If I wrote: "I loaned my flashlight to a co-worker so he could see down inside a maintenance pit", would you think that was interesting and worth reading? 

No, of course not. It's merely a statement of fact. It's not a story. It's not any more interesting than writing "I ate a sandwich". 

You guys see what I'm getting at?


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## Monocrom (Jan 2, 2014)

Another concern... I've seen some regulars change from the way they were back in the day. Although change itself is not surprising, even in attitudes and personality. In every case, no one changed for the better. Some changed so much that you begin to wonder if we're not seeing their true personalities now, and just a front back then. Whether it's the countless modders who ended up screwing over other CPFers who were loyal to them, or just regulars that used to make CPF so enjoyable to visit. In some cases, it clearly wasn't a front. Something clearly happened but we don't know what it was. And that's fine. No member is required to divulge personal details of their lives. Especially not the ones that clearly effect them to a, in some cases, radical change in personality that couldn't be clearer if every member shined their brightest light onto it.

Thing is, as fellow regulars, they still continue to post. But the enjoyable, fun, funny, kind-hearted comments from them have been replaced with apathetic, depressing, and yes; even bitter ones. Those fellow regulars whom I've seen change, none were for the better. Yes, we do have some who are, Thank God, still the same as they ever were. Those are the guys who make CPF an enjoyable place to visit. Make it a real community. I'm glad those members are still around, especially since there are fewer of them here. They know who they are. I sometimes wonder if those members who changed, know who they are too.

I recently sent a PM to a particular member who made an off-hand comment about another regular. It reminded me of the warm and caring nature he had years ago. I distinctly remember one time when I posted when I wasn't feeling well. I posted something odd. Something to him that was concern-inducing. I remember clearly the sincere way he inquired as to whether or not I was okay. I appreciated his concern. When I look back on how he was just a few short years ago, and I think about the way he changed; I wonder to myself if that illness of mine took place today... Would he ask if I was feeling alright? And I'm forced to answer, "No." It bothers me. Perhaps more than it should. Okay, yes; more than it should considering that CPF is an internet forum... An internet community... A community. So yes, it bothers me. I made the mistake of telling my best friend years ago that I had store credit of about $50 at a big sporting goods store that was an Authorized Dealer for SureFire (Still is). And that I was considering using it with $450 to get myself a SureFire M6 that I wanted for awhile. He looked me in the eye and absolutely serious, told me he'd kick my *** if I bought a $500 flashlight. Bought it anyway, never told him, still have it. You guys understand why I bought it. You guys understand why I upgraded it with custom battery carriers to let it run on 3x17670s and bought new bulbs so I could run it on those 17670s. That's why this place is a community and that's why the changes in personalities bothers me.

You guys know me. I can't put on rose-colored spectacles and pretend everything is just as good as it was "back in the good old days." No matter how much I personally want to. My blatant honesty won't let me. (No surprise there.) I can't pretend that the fat, ugly, hairy naked man wearing a crown on his head and riding that big white horse through the crowd, is wearing a beautiful set of Regal clothes and robes.

I still have hope that things will get better. Mainly because thankfully Greta hasn't changed for the worst. Yeah, that's the main reason.


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## residue (Jan 2, 2014)

I have long held similar sentiments but just accepted it as part of the evolution of the hobby and the forums.

I contributed a few stories to carrot's collection but haven't had anything worthy of posting in ages. I don't have time to bump into Ron Darling at the movies anymore because the kids consume my time. NYC no longer allows tours of the Atlantic Avenue tunnel. Larson's hasn't had a night (or any corn maze) in years.

Long gone are the regulars like Brock that brought me here, Craig with his unorthodox Led Museum reviews and a slew of others that made it feel quirky and special. It's hard to get excited about the never ending posts about the usual topics. At times, I wish there was a forum for stories and actual usage because it's tough to sift through the noise for the gems.


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## Stress_Test (Jan 2, 2014)

residue said:


> ......
> ..
> At times, I wish there was a forum for stories and actual usage because it's tough to sift through the noise for the gems.




There is... they made a CPF adventure forum at some point a little while back... BUT, it hasn't seen much activity. In my humble opinion, it was made entirely too broad; it has half a dozen topic subforums. I kind of doubt it was needed in the first place. I'd say anything posted there should've been going in the Cafe to begin with. 

Btw, I remember well the Larson's corn maze story. One of my favorites! The other was the Mansfield (sp?) penitentiary ghost tour. The other one I want to go back and read was.... The Pumphouse!!


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## nbp (Jan 2, 2014)

calipsoii said:


> No need to say "in my defense" nbp! It wasn't my intent to put you on the defensive, I was hoping to inspire yourself and others to take the charge instead of calling for change. As you've said, you've started many interesting threads here already and I'm sure you have a few more in you.  You're right that CPF lacks the intrepid experimentation that used to be so prevalent here. Most of that is because every flashlight has been built and can be bought online and shipped to your house in a couple days for < $70. The hobby is mainstream now and there's no going back. My hopes for the forum are that people will decide to make their own instead of buying from someone else, and that they'll take the time to document and share what they've done.



Don't worry buddy, we're good.  I appreciate your points and they have given me food for thought. If we want change, we all have to do our part to effect it, not simply point out problems and wait for others to fix it. Everyone who has posted in this thread has done so because they care about the community, and that means we are the ones who should take charge in helping to keep it the kind of place we want to hang out. We all can help to make it fun and exciting again. 

I do agree that the capabilities of mass-produced lights has contributed to the decline of some of the more interesting discussions here. Most anything you want can be purchased easily...and that doesn't make for much of a conversation. :sigh:

Like you though, I have been following some of the cool projects that are still going on with zeal. I can't wait for my MBI Torpedo to arrive!!




BVH said:


> Just in case you have - don't overlook the HID and spotlight sub forum. Some interesting mods and builds going on there. Read the entire NightSword build thread. What a great piece of work! I still find CPF as interesting now as when I joined in 2004.




This is a a refreshing post, and a good suggestion too, thank you. There are a few subforums I have historically not spent much time in, such as that one. Maybe I have been missing out on some good threads in there! I will be by to check it out.


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## nbp (Jan 2, 2014)

Stress_Test said:


> There is... they made a CPF adventure forum at some point a little while back... BUT, it hasn't seen much activity. In my humble opinion, it was made entirely too broad; it has half a dozen topic subforums. I kind of doubt it was needed in the first place. I'd say anything posted there should've been going in the Cafe to begin with. Btw, I remember well the Larson's corn maze story. One of my favorites! The other was the Mansfield (sp?) penitentiary ghost tour. The other one I want to go back and read was.... The Pumphouse!!




My thread trying to drum up enthusiasm for the CPFEDCAQ site: (I think the acronym scared people off, lol)

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...vity-on-the-CPF-Adventuring-and-Questing-Site!

I will have to track down those old threads as well, I can't remember them so well anymore!


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## Norm (Jan 3, 2014)

*The Evolution of a hobby.*

The reason for the changes are no different to any other hobby, in its infancy you have an active crowd interested building from scratch because there isn't any product or that product is far too expensive, as time goes by people with skills and funds to invest get involved in producing product for people who are just as keen but don't have the time or ability to produce their own, as the numbers of enthusiasts grow with the availability of pre made or kit product, manufactures see the opportunity to fill a gap by providing product at prices custom builders can't compete with, the product price becomes low enough that the average Joe can afford to get involved in what once was a specialist area, there is no longer any reason to build, as the product has become mainstream and can be bought for far less than the cost of a custom build. 

Far fewer customs and DIY = far fewer threads on custom building.

This applies to Amateur radio, model building, Flashlights or any other hobby.

Norm


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 3, 2014)

*Necessity is the mother of invention. *

When you have a company, i.e. Four Sevens, selling a light like the Quark Tactical QT2L-X that produces 780 OTF lumens for one minute then 390 lumens for almost two hours, toss in a very cool UI, provide a ten year warranty, then sell it for about $75.....that removes the necessity for a lot of inventors. 

~ Chance


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## scout24 (Jan 3, 2014)

Well, I put up a McG Mule thread in LED lighting thinking it would stay there and get some positive exposure instead of preaching to the choir...  It was moved but maybe some more stories of use will be posted!


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## Stress_Test (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm working on a little discussion myself to hopefully get the ball rolling, but I probably won't be able to finish and post it until later tonight. Nothing spectacular, just something that I hope will provide the necessary nudge, so y'all bear with me till then and then see what you think!


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## moldyoldy (Jan 3, 2014)

Forgive the temerity of an very retired geek providing a couple Pfennig of opinion from a very tangential viewpoint.

Every business or hobby or technology goes thru a lifecycle. A simple approach would be to suggest a growth phase, a 'flat-and-level' phase, and a declining phase. 

I myself cycled thru those phases with many avocations and am now leaving the steady-state phase with flashlights. As I left any specific personal interest, I divested myself of nearly all of the paraphenalia and memberships from that interest. I figuratively and literally left. Time to move on. Change is endemic to life. Personal interests are limited by perceived disposable income/resources and living conditions. Nevertheless, each endeavour provided a valuable education - all of which was stored in to what the Russian language refers to as 'old baggage' to be used to understand new technology and concepts. Remember CompuServe, GEnie, Hayes Smartmodems at 1200 baud, ASCII text progressively scrolling thru line by line on a green screen?

In the business world, many entrepeneurs are able to start a company, but cannot easily transition to the steady-state mode of running a company. They are idea people, not managers. There are some rarities such as Kelly Johnson (w/Ben Rich) of the Skunk Works whose pinnacle of success was the awe-inspiring and still unsurpassed SR-71 Blackbird. Then there are the managers who can perform superbly at management, but have difficulty with significant growth/expansion/change. Finally there are those managers who preside over the decline of a business in to insignificance and bankruptcy. Mismatch of the person and the business phase is a recipe for deterioration. Many hobby forums and boards follow the same lifecycle.

Historically some hobby forums do last longer than others. That is a complement to the sysops, administrators and moderators who douse the incipient flame wars and explosive topics. Yes, some of the oldies fade away, even admins & moderators, because of their own changing interests, yet the BBS/forum survives. Running a volunteer service is not easy!

To propagate any volunteer organization the members need to help the newbies! Answer their questions and provide references so that they can understand further. The newbie often has no historical perspective and is baffled by the terminology and technology. ie: CPF educated me that there was something better than flashlights from REI and Target.

There are 3 phases of progressing maturity: Dependence, Independence, and Interdependence. At the highest level of maturity, we give up some of our independence to become interdependent. Thereby the greater entity grows beyond any level we could have achieved by ourselves or by pushing our own agenda.


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## Kestrel (Jan 3, 2014)

nbp said:


> [...] Where are the discussions of the old classic lights, neat LEGOs, high quality lights that really give you satisfaction every time you pull them out, or *stories of actually using lights and such*? Am I missing the good stuff somewhere or does the discussion just seem very superficial and consumerist lately?



Here you go, *nbp*. :wave:

I had been meaning to post the following thread for a while now, but reading your thread this morning motiviated me enough to finally get around to doing the writeup. 
Low light / Night fire training class

I have a couple more thoughts to contribute to this thread of yours but I'll have to post later - I've been writing for a while now. 
Best regards,


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## residue (Jan 3, 2014)

Stress_Test said:


> There is... they made a CPF adventure forum at some point a little while back... BUT, it hasn't seen much activity. In my humble opinion, it was made entirely too broad; it has half a dozen topic subforums. I kind of doubt it was needed in the first place. I'd say anything posted there should've been going in the Cafe to begin with.


I wasn't aware of the adventure forum. I looked through the posts and most are about travel or activity tips. I would probably agree that there are too many subforums there right now. I'd prefer to see a board (in CPF proper) called Flashlight Stories. Let carrot moderate and encourage people to post about how they used their illumination tools to help others or experience something new. Skip the "I created a flashaholic with my 1000 lumen pocket rocket" crowd unless they have something humorous or profound to share. The technology has improved but people are so caught up with specs and collecting shiny trophies. 

At least that's what would interest me...


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## ValentineTech (Jan 3, 2014)

I've followed CPF on and off for years and only recently have I really attempted to make it past the probationary period. I have to agree as an observer more than a participant. Though I do agree with several of this thread's points, people aren't doing their research, they're mobile and they have too much of a consumerist slant. I've collected, built and tinkered for a long time without having to BUY every five minutes. I remember the first time I realized I could change the lamp on my Surefire and it was all downhill from there. Cheers, I don't know I think this was an interesting conversation, maybe there just needs to be an Old School area.


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## harro (Jan 3, 2014)

Remember when the ' Motorcar ' first appeared ( I don't personally !!!!!!!! ). It had four wheels and an engine and something to sit on. Yeah, not a lot has changed. Sure its evolved and improved etc, but its still four wheels and an engine and somewhere to sit.
Things may have stagnated a bit, but that's where members can help, eg; maybe a subforum in 'discussion' for, say, photo's of beamshots. Doesn't have to be the latest and greatest torches, just personal beamshots and a small explanation ( torch, lms, distance etc ) of whats happening, not a full on specs and numbers count or appraisal of the torch.
Anyhoooo...... just my thoughts,
Mike.


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## StarHalo (Jan 3, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> Those fellow regulars whom I've seen change, none were for the better.



Well at some point you grow out of randomly posting pictures of women out of context.

I'll let you know when I get there.

_*And I'll let you know when it ever becomes acceptable... *hint* - don't hold your breath... :ironic: ~Greta_


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## Stress_Test (Jan 3, 2014)

LMAO @ StarHalo!! Just don't get carried away!


Well anyhow, I've gone and posted up my own thread here in the Cafe to throw down the gauntlet and hopefully start bringing some of the glory days fun back to CPF. Since there are apparently a number of us of the same mindset, let's make something happen here!


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## Monocrom (Jan 3, 2014)

StarHalo said:


> Well at some point you grow out of randomly posting pictures of women out of context.
> 
> I'll let you know when I get there.



Please do... I'll likely log off of CPF for the last time after getting that PM.

Screw change, I prefer great topics and out of context pics. of lovely women from members who stay the same.:grouphug:


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## Walterk (Jan 4, 2014)

I still play around, and still keep posting reports of my projects.
It helps that I have fun in documenting with pictures and some writing.
Soometimes I think a lot of people are helpful, but most just read and shrug their shoulders. 
But this place is where I have most of my projects posted, so I keep them together. 
Browsing the forum at times, keeping up with new technology.
Maybe led is just getting normal so there is less excitement, everything is already explored and done by now?


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## TIP AND RING (Jan 4, 2014)

I have found the lights that have solved 99% of my illumination needs and wants. That said, I still love CPF and still find it one of the most interesting forums on the web. The mods do a wonderful job of keeping a plethora of strong and unique personalities from turning a inch into a yard, so to speak. Often times I think that familiarity does breed contempt. I believe some folks spend entirely too much of this limited lifetime on the web. From what CPF was to what it currently has become is a nice compromise considering the quick growth of both the industry and the forum


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## StarHalo (Jan 7, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> Sometimes it's best to stay where you are.


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## nbp (Jan 7, 2014)

Always good for a laugh, my friend.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 7, 2014)

^
^
I watched it ten times, laughed out loud every time. 

Gunna give the dive a 5.3 but a solid 10 for humor. 

~ C.G.


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## Monocrom (Jan 7, 2014)

StarHalo said:


>



A perfect illustration... er... video of what I mean. Nicely done.


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## AZPops (Jan 9, 2014)

I think we should ask ourselves, .............. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, ....... What was the question again?


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## Cataract (Jan 11, 2014)

I've been thinking for almost a year now that I am bored with the lack of interesting threads. Ironically (putting on fire suit, armor and autonomous breathing apparatus) you guys are making this thread boring as well by over analyzing the possible whys and by enumerating your personal interests. Before you all throw massive hard objects at me, I'd just like to say this is probably the reason threads are not as interesting as they used to be: the essence tends to get lost in either overly profound analytical comments or semi-digressions. Also, the regrouping of many interesting subjects into "fetish" topic threads has diminished the diversity in the approach of a lot of interesting things. I think we used to start another thread rather than join other conversations when the sense of the subject was different enough to justify a separate thread. Why don't we all just start learning how to start interesting threads? (well, that will need some practice, but how else to fix this?) I'll just retreat behind that brick wall, now...


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## DUQ (Jan 11, 2014)

StarHalo said:


> _*And I'll let you know when it ever becomes acceptable... *hint* - don't hold your breath... :ironic: ~Greta_



:tinfoil: I feel like the walls have ears :sweat:


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## nbp (Jan 11, 2014)

Cataract said:


> Why don't we all just start learning how to start interesting threads? (well, that will need some practice, but how else to fix this?) I'll just retreat behind that brick wall, now...



I think this is the essence of it, and something we can all agree on. If we all make an effort to generate new and interesting topics, everyone benefits. It will be a process as you noted, but it can be done. There are still many knowledgeable and helpful people here; it is certainly possible to create a satisfying environment for everyone. 


As an aside, I have been popping in the Incan forum a little, a place I seldom visited before. I have almost nothing of substance to offer at this point but it's kind of fun since it's virtually all new material for me!


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## degarb (Jan 11, 2014)

I think in any forum: there is one great post for ever 9 useless posts, which are either chit-chat or are regurgitation posts from intelligent people.

You skim read, misread, and dive in where you think worth it. This is why I try to keep my posts short and to the point, using simple English grammar. No point in killing your self writing what others won't read. 

Notwithstanding, whenever yahoo, cnn, etc. news have comments, the real information lay in the user comments. A good example, is a 2008 LED article, where the author spends an entire week researching LED and interviewing Lumileds before writing, but fails to mention Cree (the biggest player, then in led advancement.) The list goes on and on... Oh, those elephants in the room that are usually missed by all, save for the lone post on the forum.

It is like finding gems in a junk heap; it always has been. Info not found elsewhere.


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## Cataract (Jan 11, 2014)

nbp said:


> [...] If we all make an effort to generate new and interesting topics, everyone benefits. It will be a process as you noted, but it can be done. There are still many knowledgeable and helpful people here; it is certainly possible to create a satisfying environment for everyone.
> [...]



We could start by reviving older threads... should give us a good idea of what made them great.




degarb said:


> I think in any forum: there is one great post for ever 9 useless posts, which are either chit-chat or are regurgitation posts from intelligent people.
> 
> You skim read, misread, and dive in where you think worth it. This is why I try to keep my posts short and to the point, using simple English grammar. No point in killing your self writing what others won't read.
> 
> ...



Yep, long posts tend to get ignored as we have more to do than just read everything, especially when we enter a thread in the later stages. I also shorten long quotes to the part I'm replying to. 

Separating pointers helps a lot to keep things manageable for the reader.

Perhaps we could write a sticky on how to keep a forum interesting for everyone.


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## StarHalo (Jan 12, 2014)

Cataract said:


> Why don't we all just start learning how to start interesting threads?



I demand everyone become interesting starting immediately. Do it now.


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## Cataract (Jan 12, 2014)

StarHalo said:


> I demand everyone become interesting starting immediately. Do it now.



 Sounds like my boss


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 12, 2014)

^
The beatings will continue until moral improves.

~ Chance


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## idleprocess (Jan 12, 2014)

degarb said:


> I think in any forum: there is one great post for ever 9 useless posts, which are either chit-chat or are regurgitation posts from intelligent people.


Sturgeon's Law is always firmly in effect. Imagine any great year in popular music then look at the charts that year ... you'll find that there was a lot of disposable, forgettable noise in addition to the stuff that endured.


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## Steve K (Jan 12, 2014)

idleprocess said:


> Sturgeon's Law is always firmly in effect. Imagine any great year in popular music then look at the charts that year ... you'll find that there was a lot of disposable, forgettable noise in addition to the stuff that endured.



I had heard, and loved, the phrase "90% of everything is crap", but didn't know who created it.. until today!! Now I know that it is Sturgeon's Law! What a smart bunch of folks! Usually I just apply the phrase to popular music, but I'm willing to apply it to web forums too. 

Thanks to all of you who do create great threads or contribute to them! I do what I can, although I'm mostly a bike lights and electronics kind of guy.


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## Monocrom (Jan 13, 2014)

StarHalo said:


> I demand everyone become interesting starting immediately. Do it now.



I've been accused of many things... Being boring? Not one of them.


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## wncranger (Jan 13, 2014)

To the OP, maybe it is due to instant gratification? As soon as a product becomes "cool", a lot of people suddenly have to have it. Maybe the problem is due to lack of knowledge and/or ability, e.g. tools, skills, etc. Perhaps those with knowledge of, say electronics could start educational threads. Topics could include DC electronics, OHMS Law, how to use a multimeter and what to look for when purchasing, etc (apologies if already posted). Those with machining could post relevant topics including mini lathes and recommendations for same, materials to use, etc. (again, apologies if posted).

Point being, if those wits knowledge and skills teach those of us who are interested in DIY (hand raised), I think it would encourage the very threads you, snd I, are looking for. Just my humble opinion.


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## Chronos (Jan 13, 2014)

Fun thread.

Sort of qualifies why I've been away from CPF and not nearly as active as I was during the "Golden Days."

There was a lot of camaraderie, humor, learning, laughing, and relationship building. People genuinely cared about people. Flashlights were the toys that held us together.

Maybe people still care as they used to. It just seems "colder" around here now.


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## Norm (Jan 13, 2014)

As a group grows the less personal it will be, small family very close everyone is dependant on one another, close relatives some you may barely know, small rural town a sense of community but you won't know everyone, large city very impersonal, As the size of a community grows you are far less personally involved with the members who make up the community, you can't expect a crowd of thousands to feel like a close knit group of friends and family.


Chronos said:


> Fun thread.
> 
> Sort of qualifies why I've been away from CPF and not nearly as active as I was during the "Golden Days."
> 
> ...


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## Chronos (Jan 13, 2014)

Norm said:


> As a group grows the less personal it will be, small family very close everyone is dependant on one another, close relatives some you may barely know, small rural town a sense of community but you won't know everyone, large city very impersonal, As the size of a community grows you are far less personally involved with the members who make up the community, you can't expect a crowd of thousands to feel like a close knit group of friends and family.



Quite true, Norm.

How have you been? Sorry for being off-topic!


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## Norm (Jan 13, 2014)

Chronos said:


> Quite true, Norm.
> 
> How have you been? Sorry for being off-topic!


PM sent.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 13, 2014)

Chronos said:


> Fun thread.
> 
> Sort of qualifies why I've been away from CPF and not nearly as active as I was during the "Golden Days."
> 
> ...




I'll second Chronos's thinking. 

More than once in this thread its been stated or alluded to: If you don't have something important to post, don't post at all. You're just wasting everyone's time. You're boring, you're lazy, etc etc.

The irony of people complaining about there not being enough "good" threads these days while making these kinds of judgments is impossible to ignore.  Too often I read posts from people who feel a need to make snide comments rather than just "turn" the page. 

Most all here want to make CPF a better place. A good start would be to remember, and practice something that should have been learned in kindergarten: If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

Most all of us comment according to our own paradigm. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but should always be tempered with a lesson I've had to learn since becoming a member of CPF. (the only place I post) 

:grouphug: *CPF has a diverse membership. Conduct yourself accordingly. *:grouphug:


~ Chance


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## Trevtrain (Jan 13, 2014)

There have been many very good points raised in this thread. As a relatively new member it's hard for me to judge whether the forum really has changed or whether it's just my perceptions of this hobby. I guess it's different for everyone but for me it's probably a combination of many of the points listed.

Acceptable quality high-output flashlights are now mainstream and affordable and LED flashlights is no longer a new and boutique field of endeavour. This is bound to skew the demographic of CPF membership as the NEED to mod or build your own has been reduced (though it's still an interesting hobby).

Creating something like a build thread can be intimidating. I have tinkered with a few little projects at home but I often assume that they may not be of interest to anyone but myself. Also, it certainly is a lot of work to document and compose a decent build thread. Having spent many years designing training materials professionally I have realised that content creation is not a task that everyone can do well. Having said that I certainly still enjoy reading the threads created by others and have learned a lot from them.

Tablets and other mobile devices certainly do make posting content to the forum more difficult than on a regular PC. At least, I still find it that way. Whilst I find Safari on the iPad to be relatively usable I have had a lot of minor UI frustrations with the browsers on my android tablet and phone. Additionally the take-up and popularity of portable devices means that we can login for a spare five minutes simply to read in situations where we wouldn't necessarily have time to fire up a PC and post in-depth stuff.

I thought it was just my own perception after a couple of years of membership but it's interesting that some of you have commented that many people tend to simply ask questions rather than research the forum. It certainly seems to me that the same old questions keep popping up time after time in new threads which gets a bit stale.

I believe there is a valid perception that CPF content is skewed towards the more expensive sections of the market. Whilst I have found most people here to be extremely helpful, I know for fact that some members have moved on because they felt this forum was becoming a bit too elitist. Some of those members now frequent other forums where a lot of interesting modding and build threads can be found. What I do not find so attractive is the hostility that some members here and elsewhere display towards the perceived "competition".

Lastly, whilst I understand that the first rule of CPF is that we don't question the rules of CPF, I personally find that some of the restrictions no matter how well-intentioned end up making information more difficult to find than it needs to be. Even with the best of intentions I have had a few posts modified or deleted for reasons that still aren't entirely clear. This is simply a personal observation on my part and I know not everyone sees it this way.

I still have an active interest in things like alternative energy (and even flashlights ) and I hope to keep finding useful information for many years to come. But it seems that currently we may have to search through a lot of mundane threads to find the gems. And this will be no different anywhere else.


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## thedoc007 (Jan 13, 2014)

Chronos said:


> Fun thread.
> 
> Sort of qualifies why I've been away from CPF and not nearly as active as I was during the "Golden Days."
> 
> ...



This is another area where it is up to you to make changes happen. Look for the "Christmas donation" threads if you want proof that CPF still cares about its members. I have given away multiple lights, chargers, batteries, etc, to people who seem to need them (not just in the Christmas thread)...if you have a huge collection, as many people here do, you can probably spare an old light or two to make someone's day! 

If that doesn't appeal, or isn't practical for you, there are other things you could do...start a "newbie questions" thread, where you take a few minutes each day to answer a question or three to help people learn. Try to connect with people in your area (much easier in some places than in others) and have a real-life get together, where everyone can show off/experience lights that they otherwise wouldn't be able to. Or any of a dozen other ideas...the point is, you have to make it happen. No sense in bitching about it if you aren't working to make it better.

I've only been on CPF for about a year, so I can't comment on how it was "back then", but there are still a lot of great people here, and you can learn a lot about virtually any topic, if you want to. Just because not all the content is totally original, doesn't mean it isn't valuable.


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## Stress_Test (Jan 16, 2014)

Well, at the first of this month I started the "throwing down the gauntlet" thread. Compared to the "It's LEDs not LED's" thread, the LED thread has about twice as many views and three times as many posts.... draw your own conclusions as to what that indicates!!


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 16, 2014)

Stress Test, ET all,

Before any conclusions are drawn, remember the two threads you're contrasting are both in the Cafe. Most members come here to relax and chat. Perhaps your gauntlet thread has led to profound results elsewhere on CPF.

~ Chance


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## noboneshotdog (Jan 16, 2014)

I had recently started a thread in the "general" flashlight section of the forum titled "Flashlight Stories....tell yours here", it may be a good way to start some more interesting discussion with some real life stories. And as my dad always said when out fishing, why ruin a good story with the facts. So tell your stories, embellish if you have to, and have fun!


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## StarHalo (Jan 23, 2014)

nbp said:


> In my defense, I have started 98 threads in my time here.



I was totally ready to poke fun at this number, until I searched my started threads and came up with ..57. But in _my_ defense, there are some gems in there; Cars, Man, Secret Aircraft, Awesome Older Tech Gadgets, Charts & Graphs, Recommend A Book, Indiana Jones Cereal Box Flashlight Review, 11% More MPG, Dangerous New Toy For Men, etc..


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## Cataract (Jan 23, 2014)

I'm at 58 threads; 2 stickies, 4-5 reviews, one of which got me a free LD15 (for reviewing) and 2 half priced flashlights (which I reviewed) all because I did a review for a free TK45 sample (good ol days!). Most of my threads got one or no replies and one thread that wasn't even started by me; I must have been the last post on the thread and that post ended up being the first one during the great crash.

Since Carrot's challenges came up, here's a thread I started in complete relation to one of the challenges:
*POWER FAILURE LAST NIGHT WHILE TAKING THE 250+ LUMEN CHALLENGE*

This one I was sure would stir up some comments or other related stories:
*The impossibly blind*


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## nbp (Jan 23, 2014)

Some nice posts recently here since I last commented in this thread with some excellent observations and suggestions. Keep up the good work folks! 

I like the idea of a newbie questions thread! That could help limit the number of repetitive threads, in that it would be a centralized place to post thread links and such to answer questions instead of 50 new threads. I'm going to try it. 


StarHalo: If you take out my WTB and WTS threads and a few Questions/Suggestions it's really like 75 threads, so over 6 years that's like less than one a month.


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## Onthelightside (Feb 11, 2014)

Hello Everyone 

I just spent the last half hour or so reading over the posts, some were depressing some were happy. I have to say that CPF has been an enjoyable experience for me. I was one of the people who requested a light recommendation in the forum and I looked foreword to the reply from GaAslamp. We deliberated on every detail of the light for what exactly would work in my use. Unlike many threads today, it was not what can I get the brightest, cheapest, lots of throw etc in two sentences and get two one sentence responses. He/She helped me through understanding the new world of flashlights and made me feel welcome to the CPF community. To see what I mean take a look at the thread *Small Versatile Flashlight *Also take a look at a thread I posted to help my friend in the Red Cross find a light for the Disaster Respondse Team she volunteers on. She recently had to use her flashlight to help paramedics find our location and was so glad the members of CPF helped her find a light that was perfect for her. I posted the short story in the recommend me a light thread to update those who helped pick out the light. Even though recommending lights can be mundane it really does give a positive impact to those on the other end. Just so the older members know it really is appreciated, maybe not by all but the personal touches in the recommendations are great

This thread was very cool I thought it shows a practical application for flashlights with the new phenomena of 3D printing. He designed a clip that could hold his AAA flashlight to his baseball cap and printed it with a 3D printer. I found it interesting and a great use of new technology in the "maker" time that we seem to be in now. 
*3D Printer thread*

I have recently built/in the process of building a motion controlled lighting system with the core lighting coming from four Nichia 219 LEDs mounted on an Al bar. I have all the components on a protoboard which I now need to get encased and everything finished up. I have to say the light that the Nichia's put out is very pleasing and could even make a good solution to normal house lighting. I am not sure anyone would be interested in a thread on how I worked through the circuitry to build it as well as the mechanical side of LED mounting and heat management. I don't have a ton of pictures but enough for someone to get the general idea for what is going on.* Anyone have interest in a thread for this? 
* 
I also volunteer with the Red Cross and one of my friends who is an Electrical Engineer built a rugged field lighting system to light up the medical tents for outdoor events. It uses LED strip and some custom wiring all encased in a pelican case. Definitely super helpful when treating patients and a very cool bit of engineering.:thumbsup:

Not sure exactly what my post here contributes but just a thank you to those who have helped me and I will do my best to try to contribute positively to the community here in the future for others:grouphug:

PS hopefully there are no spelling/grammar issues I have to go now...


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## yoyoman (Feb 12, 2014)

It is hard being interesting. I started a thread (Lights Doing Their Thing) and it is mostly a monologue. Is it because the topic is too broad? Should each topic be a different thread to get more involvement? Or is it because what interests me doesn't interest others? The thread has more than 1,500 visits - should I be happy with that and keep going? I have learned a lot from CPF and, frankly, I enjoy it and want to contribute. I need some guidance and feedback - even if the message is shut up and just lurk.


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## Cataract (Feb 14, 2014)

There are stray posts on usual beamshots, collections and just general unrelated talktalk in your thread, but when you scroll through, it seems there are still a good proportion of posts that are on topic. If my last post (#27) is not the type of post you expected, then you definitely didn't explain it right...

I think the trick is some form of self moderation by giving the example and post a few more examples yourself or comment positively on those posts you find most interesting. You can't ask for the sky, though (well... I do think my last post should be interesting )

I think part of the problem is that people just feel a need to broadcast something and just don't pay attention what they post and where. Blame twitter, facebook and the likes.


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## StarHalo (Feb 14, 2014)

Cataract said:


> I think part of the problem is that people just feel a need to broadcast something and just don't pay attention what they post and where. Blame twitter, facebook and the likes.



I heard it could also be ADD, but who knows. This weather is really something though. Some dude just fell off his horse on TV. I love lemonade..


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## Cataract (Feb 15, 2014)

StarHalo said:


> I heard it could also be ADD, but who knows. This weather is really something though. Some dude just fell off his horse on TV. I love lemonade..



Here's a theory: ADD is induced by... Holy cow!!!

(ahem... ADD could be induced by the simple over-stimulation from the multiplying sources of useless junk as our ancestors would definitely have called it... wait... some of them are still around, and they do call it junk. Some of them use smart phones and never understand a single thing when we talk to them. Proof within the proof that it's not really about how we are raised or the likes!)


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## Monocrom (Feb 15, 2014)

Cataract said:


> Here's a theory: ADD is induced by... Holy cow!!!
> 
> (ahem... ADD could be induced by the simple over-stimulation from the multiplying sources of useless junk as our ancestors would definitely have called it... wait... some of them are still around, and they do call it junk. Some of them use smart phones and never understand a single thing when we talk to them. Proof within the proof that it's not really about how we are raised or the likes!)



Sorry.... couldn't get through most of your post. Could you condense it down to six words or less. 

KTHNX.


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## orbital (Feb 15, 2014)

+

Two reasons for CPF change::

I: Most everything has been done w/ flashlights
II: CPF_ business_ is now 1/3 million members,,, it's become more of a dave & buster's than a cozy pub







^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## zespectre (Feb 15, 2014)

Well, speaking for myself the last two years have been pretty damn rough financially so I've been severely limited in toy purchasing. I was still willing to continue my "Real World Reviews" but I'll be damned if I can get anyone (individuals or businesses) to bother sending me samples anymore. No new lights means I do no reviews. Uultimately I guess that's okay since I'm scrambling between three part time jobs and a stupid number of hours just to try and make the income I was before my former employer closed the business down. 

Another thing that seems to have changed participation is the development of standards and specific, calibrated, testing equipment. At one point pretty much anyone could just jump in and do some runtime graphs or brightness testing. Heck I used to run what I called the "dalemeter" which gave a comparison for light output, but which wasn't calibrated to anything other than itself. Initially that was fine and people liked that they could get -some kind- of comparison between lights, but eventually if I couldn't give an answer in Lumens or MCD or whatever then people weren't interested and sometimes got downright snarky about my "made up numbers". In short I feel like an underlying attitude has developed that if you don't have actual calibrated test equipment you shouldn't be doing reviews so I think a lot of people who would have written reviews shy away from it now.

Also, I agree that we've hit a saturation point. Much like camera equipment, when the sophistication develops to a certain degree then the differences between items become smaller and smaller and in low-consideration items like flashlights most folks just don't care.

Lastly, CPF is also definitely a business now and that changed some of the attitudes and behaviors. I'm not saying it is better or worse, but definitely different.

[there, was that at least remotely interesting?]


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## degarb (Feb 15, 2014)

I still think the number *one* biggest handicap is Android to good, articulate forum participation.

Number two, is we are getting closer to 200 lpw.

Number three, arguably, is mysterious closings of threads and diversity of ideas.

Number 4 is economy.



OTH, there is a future:

Brick and mortar stores have a looong way to go to get good lights. I have given up on them. They are just interested in shelf life longevity and markup. Perhaps, a dead topic. Of course, the 18650 is the future.

I think fixed lighting (100 to 300 watt led worklights/200 lpw Philips fixtures) has a ways to go. I also think flashlights suck. Odd ain't I. But I do not see why any camper/runner/hiker/worker/house cleaner/mechanic/etc would ever want to hold a tube in one's hand when it has other purposes. So, I think headlamps/wristlights that you can point/other wearable designs have a way to go. Also, color shifting and beam shaping (without aspheric losses) can go further. If just being able to see for long periods of time is important to you, then the future is boring. If being able to see optimally, then there is a future in the forum.

I do think the future of battery power, fuel cells are MORE exciting than the exciting future of led. Also, future power generation (NOT SOLAR or wind so much) schemes will be more fascinating than LED. It will be interesting to see the politics play out as people invest in one power source or another and start trashing the competition. (Example, google & others just opened worlds largest solar farm, or the us govt. once fracked with nuclear weapons, or Norway is now using thorium for cleanup purposes, etc. etc.)


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## yoyoman (Feb 15, 2014)

Cataract said:


> There are stray posts on usual beamshots, collections and just general unrelated talktalk in your thread, but when you scroll through, it seems there are still a good proportion of posts that are on topic. If my last post (#27) is not the type of post you expected, then you definitely didn't explain it right...
> 
> I think the trick is some form of self moderation by giving the example and post a few more examples yourself or comment positively on those posts you find most interesting. You can't ask for the sky, though (well... I do think my last post should be interesting )
> 
> I think part of the problem is that people just feel a need to broadcast something and just don't pay attention what they post and where. Blame twitter, facebook and the likes.



Your last post is interesting and is exactly what I hoped for. I'm planning a response. 

It is possible that I have the brother of ADD - the need for instant gratification. I want 2,000 posts now. That's not realistic and not good. I am happy that the thread has 1,500 visits and I am happy that there aren't 1,500 posts that just say cool. The responses have been on topic and more than 3 words. That is good. 

I posted on this thread because I want to help CPF stay interesting and wanted some guidance. At least I didn't start a thread "What's the best..." I will see how the thread evolves and take your advise of giving examples and positive feedback to guide the future direction.


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## Cataract (Feb 15, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> Sorry.... couldn't get through most of your post. Could you condense it down to six words or less.
> 
> KTHNX.



Sure: People don't read

STOP HERE





zespectre said:


> [...]
> 
> [there, was that at least remotely interesting?]



Is sure was a nice point of view and I do agree with the fact that there is a focus on calibrated numbers, but it has the big advantage that you don't need to do research to find a comparison base anymore. 

Then again, that whole research through reviews to find someone who reviewed both the lights you were considering and one you own was one of the more interesting things to do. reviews were simpler to go through and focused on what's most important: the beam. Now they are all about UI. 




degarb said:


> I still think the number *one* biggest handicap is Android to good, articulate forum participation.
> 
> [...]



100% agree

-Sent from my iPhone

I think the social medias are taking too much away from a good internet exchange by creating bad habits; people just want to expose their point of views and their life and don't pay much attention to what others have to say because they have to check out the next 100 threads plus all their friend's last 15 minutes of facebook update, not to mention the other 4 forums they're on at the same time. I call it technology induced ADD.




yoyoman said:


> Your last post is interesting and is exactly what I hoped for. I'm planning a response.
> 
> It is possible that I have the brother of ADD - the need for instant gratification. [...].



We all want it right away. Took 6 months for my flashlight troubleshooting guide to be stickied while I was certain the mods would make it a sticky even before the first reply. Hang in there and be your own moderator, that's the best way to get it where you want. Keep some comments in reserve and post them when the last reply was so long ago that your thread is very low on the list and I bet it will be one of the most interesting long running threads.


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## degarb (Feb 16, 2014)

I wonder too how many practical modifications and builds are never posted, because they would look silly against the ten previous anodized, milled posts.

The only remedy would be to encourage the ugly, but practical, home builds with own subforum, where the expectations of the aesthetic would be low.


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## Cataract (Feb 16, 2014)

degarb said:


> I wonder too how many practical modifications and builds are never posted, because they would look silly against the ten previous anodized, milled posts.
> 
> The only remedy would be to encourage the ugly, but practical, home builds with own subforum, where the expectations of the aesthetic would be low.



Excellent idea! What are you waiting for?


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## StarHalo (Feb 16, 2014)

degarb said:


> I wonder too how many practical modifications and builds are never posted, because they would look silly against the ten previous anodized, milled posts.



The A-10 Warthog is ugly, but sure is popular..

How about buying a handful of 4D Mags at the local hardware store, taking the body tubes from two and stacking them side-by-side underneath one complete Mag pyramid-style, then drilling a hole in the tailcap of all three tubes for wiring, cap the open end of the bottom two, bolt a handle onto the top one - presto, 12D Mag spotlight..


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## Cataract (Feb 16, 2014)

StarHalo said:


> The A-10 Warthog is ugly, but sure is popular..
> 
> How about buying a handful of 4D Mags at the local hardware store, taking the body tubes from two and stacking them side-by-side underneath one complete Mag pyramid-style, then drilling a hole in the tailcap of all three tubes for wiring, cap the open end of the bottom two, bolt a handle onto the top one - presto, 12D Mag spotlight..



Now you've done it: I'll be looking at [email protected] in case there's a super special on 3 packs.

And now that you've got me thinking about this I got an even better idea: make a wine-bottle rack type of holder to hold 3-4-5 ++ of your bigger flashlights. Many birds, one stone: makes for an interesting piece in the living room as a storage solution, can carry your lights easily while making sure they don't grind against on another and you can also use them all at once. Put a bird-cage cover on top and burglars won't try to steal them!


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## nbp (Jul 20, 2014)

Sometimes I browse through the OLD threads and find ones I like since not a lot of the ones popping up lately seem to trip my trigger. I am inclined to just start bumping up old threads that were fun to inject some new (old?) life into the forum but then I think people will hassle me for doing so. What do you guys think?


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## StarHalo (Jul 20, 2014)

nbp said:


> I am inclined to just start bumping up old threads that were fun to inject some new (old?) life into the forum but then I think people will hassle me for doing so. What do you guys think?



Seems I've been doing that every couple of weeks for the last season or so, been hassle-free thus far. I usually run across some new idea or thing and think, "How can I share this on CPF," and Google Search often provides the answer..


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## scout24 (Jul 20, 2014)

I don't think you'll be hassled, but that a lot of forum interest isn't in things that you or I would find entertaining or enjoyable. Remember the Archimedes peak? Saw that posted in a thread yesterday. Seems my interests have followed that chart. Started with a narrow interest, was interested in EVERYTHING, now a narrower view... I bumped carrot's "incan challenge" thread on July 9th and got one new post...  The recent HDS thread turned into a cluster**** despite Bullseyebill's best efforts. I have a new Rotary waiting for me at home but have given up on the thread for all the garbage posted there. The McGizmo subforum is one of my last hopes, but posting there is slow at times. Incan remains civilized, but only so much can be said about my beloved E series lights... I have slowed way down here, and so many new members have joined... Thank goodness! I was new and enthusiastic, might just be time for a break. Maybe the lumen race will be over when I get back!!! Fat chance...


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## nbp (Jul 20, 2014)

You have expressed my thoughts almost exactly Greg. 

I love when I log on and there are a mess of new posts in Don's forum, or a fun ooh rah rah HDS or Muyshondt thread started, or something similar. There are just so few lights that get me going anymore! I want to stay active here but I feel like I don't have a lot to say and there are fewer and fewer members who want to talk about the lights I want to talk about because they are old or dim and expensive, LOL. 

I am working on a new "review" along the lines of my Haiku and Tri EDC essays. It's taking me forever as I only write like 6 sentences at a time, haha. As a teaser, it is going to be called "Malkoff MDC - The Poor Man's Haiku - Another Ideal EDC".  Maybe I just need to focus on that for awhile and hope it drums up some exciting discussion when it's done.


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## thedoc007 (Jul 20, 2014)

nbp said:


> Sometimes I browse through the OLD threads and find ones I like since not a lot of the ones popping up lately seem to trip my trigger. I am inclined to just start bumping up old threads that were fun to inject some new (old?) life into the forum but then I think people will hassle me for doing so. What do you guys think?



I think that if the thread is still relevant, and certainly if you have something to add, then do it. But I wouldn't bump an old thread just because you feel nostalgic about it. We already have enough people posting without contributing anything...

'Course, I'm not an old-timer, so feel free to take my advice with a heap of salt.


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## nbp (Jul 20, 2014)

thedoc007 said:


> I think that if the thread is still relevant, and if you have something to add, then do it. But I wouldn't bump an old thread just because you feel nostalgic about it. We already have enough people posting without contributing anything...
> 
> 'Course, I'm not an old-timer, so feel free to take my advice with a heap of salt.



I think that is a very sensible approach, thank you. :thumbsup:


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## archimedes (Jul 20, 2014)

scout24 said:


> ....Remember the Archimedes peak?....



... :twothumbs ...



nbp said:


> ....I want to stay active here but I feel like I don't have a lot to say and there are fewer and fewer members who want to talk about the lights I want to talk about because they are old or dim and expensive, LOL.
> ....



Yes, I know exactly what you mean 

Maybe somebody should start a thread to discuss only lights that are "old, dim, and expensive" ... but then again it might just be the three of us posting in it (lol)

EDIT - Hey, I just noticed my post-count went over the 3K mark


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## calipsoii (Jul 21, 2014)

scout24 said:


> I don't think you'll be hassled, but that a lot of forum interest isn't in things that you or I would find entertaining or enjoyable. Remember the Archimedes peak? Saw that posted in a thread yesterday. Seems my interests have followed that chart. Started with a narrow interest, was interested in EVERYTHING, now a narrower view... I bumped carrot's "incan challenge" thread on July 9th and got one new post...  The recent HDS thread turned into a cluster**** despite Bullseyebill's best efforts. I have a new Rotary waiting for me at home but have given up on the thread for all the garbage posted there. The McGizmo subforum is one of my last hopes, but posting there is slow at times. Incan remains civilized, but only so much can be said about my beloved E series lights... I have slowed way down here, and so many new members have joined... Thank goodness! I was new and enthusiastic, might just be time for a break. Maybe the lumen race will be over when I get back!!! Fat chance...



I'd be quite sad to see you go scout24. You're on my list of 'favorite CPFers' and I have noticed you posting less around here, which is a shame because I've always enjoyed your posts. 

I haven't been on CPF for as long as some so I'll try not to wax _too _nostalgic. I do know that nowadays any pocket light I can possibly imagine already exists and can be immediately purchased for $100 (or less) on eBay. I'd be very hard-pressed to name a set of features and have someone tell me that no one has thought of that yet. Kind of sucks the magic out of the hobby, eh? A wise man once said that "After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting".

I have a theory that what the site (and the community) has been losing over the years is its' builders. When I see people (yourself included) talking about what interests them most, it always seems to come back to "our" builders. McGizmo, HDS, JHanko, Mac, Lummi, Steve Ku, Peak, FiveMega, DarkSucks, PhotonFanatic - the list goes on. I put "our" in quotes because these people all started out or are still active on CPF and that makes them ours. They're people that everyone can rally behind, because unlike Mag Instruments or Inova, they put a name and a face and a personality behind their product. Their excitement for what they do is contagious and they bring the whole community along for the ride.

We've lost a lot of builders over the years and it seems like we lose more each year. Most of them have gotten quite successful or no longer have the time or the interest to come converse on the forums. A few have left under much less pleasant conditions. But there really aren't a lot of new builders taking their place. I have a subscription list full of individuals who are working hard and have made amazing progress (schizeckinosy, TGWNN, Tana and Mattaus immediately spring to mind). But all of these people are facing the extraordinary challenge of trying to get a foothold in a highly competitive market amongst peers who've been jaded by the flood of low-priced offerings. What new ideas can anyone bring to the table, and without exciting new ideas, how will they finance their endeavours?

It's not very often nowadays that I wander into the general (LED, incan, headlamp) forums. Very little there holds my interest and I don't have anything to add to most of the discussions. I spend the majority of my time now in the machining, homemade and builders subforums, learning and trying my best to contribute. Of all the subforums on CPF, these 3 hold the most promise for me. I believe that if new builders are going to come from anywhere, it's there. 

If you decide to take a break, I expect when you return things will be very much the same. I guess my only suggestion is to spend some time in those 3 forums before you go. If a project catches your eye, or someone shows a lot of promise, encourage them. If you have an idea for a light, suggest it. If you have an idea to modify something you already own, float it. If we can encourage even one person to passionately pursue their project then maybe we can burgeon the next generation of CPF builders, and _that_ would make this a more interesting place.


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## powernoodle (Jul 21, 2014)

I left CPF for a good while - a few years really - as my hoarding centered on MTs, knives, Man Sacks and guns. But after being back, I have ordered 2 lights and as far as I am concerned, things are on the upswing around here. Its all a matter of perception. CPF and the other fora are like drugs. You need more and more to keep the high, and eventually they stop working for you. But a little absence will clear the cobwebs, and you can start over.






_Arc lights and others, from back in the day._


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## nbp (Jul 21, 2014)

archimedes said:


> ... :twothumbs ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I love this idea Don! I think I will do just that - it could really be fun! Congrats on 3k posts also - I have always enjoyed your perspectives and insights and you are always a gentleman on these boards. Truly a helpful and kindly member. :thumbsup:






calipsoii said:


> I have a theory that what the site (and the community) has been losing over the years is its' builders. When I see people (yourself included) talking about what interests them most, it always seems to come back to "our" builders. McGizmo, HDS, JHanko, Mac, Lummi, Steve Ku, Peak, FiveMega, DarkSucks, PhotonFanatic - the list goes on. I put "our" in quotes because these people all started out or are still active on CPF and that makes them ours. They're people that everyone can rally behind, because unlike Mag Instruments or Inova, they put a name and a face and a personality behind their product. Their excitement for what they do is contagious and they bring the whole community along for the ride.
> 
> We've lost a lot of builders over the years and it seems like we lose more each year. Most of them have gotten quite successful or no longer have the time or the interest to come converse on the forums. A few have left under much less pleasant conditions. But there really aren't a lot of new builders taking their place. I have a subscription list full of individuals who are working hard and have made amazing progress (schizeckinosy, TGWNN, Tana and Mattaus immediately spring to mind). But all of these people are facing the extraordinary challenge of trying to get a foothold in a highly competitive market amongst peers who've been jaded by the flood of low-priced offerings. What new ideas can anyone bring to the table, and without exciting new ideas, how will they finance their endeavours?
> 
> ...



I think you make some excellent points in here Calipsoii, and I find myself in that mentality now. It is hard to get excited about lights made by big faceless manufacturing conglomerates versus those created by our friends here. I browse the Custom builders section frequently but I like your suggestion to hang out a bit more in the Homemade and Modified and Machining areas as well. I have mostly avoided them since I don't have skills in those areas and I don't feel like I have anything to add or help out with, but perhaps the enthusiasm and fresh perspectives of some of the new innovators can help rekindle my excitement a bit too. And at the very least, you're right, we can encourage and cheer on those with skills and help them move forward with their projects. Everyone likes to know they are appreciated and have the support of the community. 





powernoodle said:


> I left CPF for a good while - a few years really - as my hoarding centered on MTs, knives, Man Sacks and guns. But after being back, I have ordered 2 lights and as far as I am concerned, things are on the upswing around here. Its all a matter of perception. CPF and the other fora are like drugs. You need more and more to keep the high, and eventually they stop working for you. But a little absence will clear the cobwebs, and you can start over.




Always good to have you here Noodle.  Let me know if you find something that really gets you buzzed again. 

I've often thought of taking a CPF break but I have never actually done it. I always feel like I might miss something.


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## Cataract (Jul 21, 2014)

thedoc007 said:


> I think that if the thread is still relevant, and certainly if you have something to add, then do it. But I wouldn't bump an old thread just because you feel nostalgic about it. We already have enough people posting without contributing anything...
> 
> 'Course, I'm not an old-timer, so feel free to take my advice with a heap of salt.



I agree. If you add something interesting or relevant, no one has a reason to beat you up. If the thread is just pure interesting even if the last few posts killed it, it is worth reviving if it is old enough. 





archimedes said:


> ... :twothumbs ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We need an "old, dim, expensive lights" forum. Then we might take it up to 5 viewers per day and 3 threads 




powernoodle said:


> I left CPF for a good while - a few years really - as my hoarding centered on MTs, knives, Man Sacks and guns. But after being back, I have ordered 2 lights and as far as I am concerned, things are on the upswing around here. Its all a matter of perception. CPF and the other fora are like drugs. You need more and more to keep the high, and eventually they stop working for you. But a little absence will clear the cobwebs, and you can start over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice collection! You won't get that from members that have been on here for less than 2 years unfortunately... Which gives me an idea:

"Old, dim, expensive light collections; post your pictures." Newbies welcome to try and guess the name and price of the lights. Then try to guess how much you need to give us so we'd be willing to part with it and try not to laugh.

I've been only looking at my subcribed threads for over 2 months now. Perhaps by the end of the summer I might enjoy General and LED lights discussion forums for a few weeks again...


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## watt4 (Jul 31, 2014)

powernoodle said:


> _Arc lights and others, from back in the day._




nice. I see six that I still own, from those days.

arc AAA, arc AA, dorcy AAA, inova X5, gerber infinity, and the eternalight.


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## ElectronGuru (Aug 1, 2014)

calipsoii said:


> Of all the subforums on CPF, these 3 hold the most promise for me. I believe that if new builders are going to come from anywhere, it's there.



Nice post. Some of my earliest efforts were in/for the homemade section:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ow-To-Calibrate-your-Maglite-C-D-focus-system

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?228157-OxLite

Part of the problem too, is as with cars. The more sophisticated the features get, the more trained/specialized you have to be to modify them.


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## Hodsta (Oct 30, 2014)

Chronos said:


> Fun thread.
> 
> Sort of qualifies why I've been away from CPF and not nearly as active as I was during the "Golden Days."
> 
> ...



Colder? Maybe you need to look at the world with a higher CRI LED? How you doin' you big Douche, an' where is Mossyoak ( I miss her) and Goat (I miss it)....

:nana:


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## flashy bazook (Oct 30, 2014)

Here is one small, partial, theory as to how things could improve: HAVE FEWER STICKIES!!!

Some forums have half a page or even more with stickies. Since they are stickies, I feel why look at them now, I probably looked at them already.

Here is how to reduce the stickies without losing valuable information.

Create a few standardized stickies with references to the threads that previously had their own sticky thread. So say a reference sticky to lumen measurement threads, one to throw measurement threads, one to runtime threads. And maybe one to Surefire drop-in threads. Or one to titanium hosts.

The key is to fold in older sticky threads and to group them, but keep the total sticky "length count" per page to below 10 percent!


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## koti (Oct 30, 2014)

nbp said:


> I feel like there aren't a lot of cool threads to read and participate in lately and I'm kinda bored. Most of the Customs subforums and other collecting threads I like to read are super quiet, not much going, and many of the threads in the Flashlight forums seem to be the same old "hey I need 1500 lumens real cheap" bit; or "new LED in ABC123 light should I replace the one I already have?" Even the reviews forum is mostly weird blinky lights I have no interest in.
> 
> Where are the discussions of the old classic lights, neat LEGOs, high quality lights that really give you satisfaction every time you pull them out, or stories of actually using lights and such? Am I missing the good stuff somewhere or does the discussion just seem very superficial and consumerist lately?
> 
> ...



I'm with you bro. Especialy on the consumerist part. There's not much going on here in the recent 4 years. Where are the inventors, creators, explorers of the past...they are all replaced by followers & buyers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


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## Norm (Oct 30, 2014)

flashy bazook said:


> Here is how to reduce the stickies without losing valuable information.
> 
> Create a few standardized stickies with references to the threads that previously had their own sticky thread. So say a reference sticky to lumen measurement threads, one to throw measurement threads, one to runtime threads. And maybe one to Surefire drop-in threads. Or one to titanium hosts.
> 
> The key is to fold in older sticky threads and to group them, but keep the total sticky "length count" per page to below 10 percent!


which has already been done for some stickies - Norm

Here's a couple of examples. 

Posting photos

Incandescent Forum - Threads of Interest

It all takes time and effort and means extra work for an already busy volunteer staff.


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## Kestrel (Oct 30, 2014)

Norm said:


> [...]
> Incandescent Forum - Threads of Interest
> 
> It all takes time and effort and means extra work for an already busy volunteer staff.


I've actually wanted to put together a *SureFire L1 compendium* post comparable to the above (as that topic is rather dear to my heart), but yes things like that take time to put together.


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## koti (Oct 30, 2014)

Norm said:


> It all takes time and effort and means extra work for an already busy volunteer staff.



Just a thought I'm thinking right now...does CPF have a mission? Is there a vision that CPF strives to achieve? I feel that morons have an easier time to contaminate without the above.



Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


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## Norm (Oct 30, 2014)

koti said:


> I feel that morons have an easier time to contaminate without the above.


I don't understand the quote above - Norm


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## koti (Oct 30, 2014)

Norm said:


> I don't understand the quote above - Norm



I'm thinking that many of the extremely creative people who used to be here have gone elsewhere or have been driven away. Reading thru the "the wine & cellar" will give you a hint of what I mean. Vision, Creativity, Future, Science, Exploration - Yes.
Bias, Consumerism, conservatism - No. 
If I'm still unclear, please feel free to disregard my input.


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


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## StarHalo (Oct 30, 2014)

koti said:


> I'm thinking that many of the extremely creative people who used to be here have gone elsewhere or have been driven away. Reading thru the "the wine & cellar" will give you a hint of what I mean.



Seriously hoping you're not referring to The Underground..


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## idleprocess (Oct 30, 2014)

StarHalo said:


> Seriously hoping you're not referring to The Underground..



Indeed. I frequent the place and would not describe myself as _creative_ as the term is typically used.


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## Monocrom (Oct 30, 2014)

Kestrel said:


> I've actually wanted to put together a *SureFire L1 compendium* post comparable to the above (as that topic is rather dear to my heart), but yes things like that take time to put together.



My Milky-modded L1 Xtreme was the first 200+ actual lumens light running off one CR123 cell. Came out months before the first commercial offering. One of the few lights I'll keep for Life. 

But I believe that right there is one of the reasons why so many good threads are no longer around. No need to mod anything when nowadays some slob can just walk into Wal-Mart and walk out with a cheap, lumen monster. Some day soon, even one as small as my Milky-modded L1. No, the quality won't be the same, but the general public no longer gives a crap about quality. Just cheap junk to replace once it stops working. Even worse among knives. Plenty of folks buy a cheap knife for work purposes, use it until it gets dull, throw it away.... Then buy the very same cheap knife again! They do the same with their kitchen cutlery. Having no clue how to do something as basic as sharpen a knife. 

Several years back, you could find good lights at Brick & Mortar shops. Then the selection at places like Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, etc. turned to absolute garbage. Now the lights are back, but they're cheap, lumen monsters.


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## flashy bazook (Oct 31, 2014)

Norm said:


> which has already been done for some stickies - Norm
> 
> Here's a couple of examples.
> 
> ...



And indeed, these are excellent examples of what I had in mind. And the work to create these "master stickies" is very much appreciated.

But there are still plenty of pages where this has not been done, and the standard of excellence there can be improved!


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## Norm (Oct 31, 2014)

flashy bazook said:


> But there are still plenty of pages where this has not been done, and the standard of excellence there can be improved!


Righto, must improve I'll get right on it. 

There is no reason why *you* can't start a new thread as you described, it can then replace the superfluous stickies, are you volunteering? 

Norm


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## Cataract (Oct 31, 2014)

Annyone could still take notes in a word document and submit new ideas to mods to make their job ready-cut once it is approved... improving on a forum that already has covered pretty much all know aspects is a full-time job in itself. 

I think the real key here is that pretty much anything worth general interest and mention IS covered on CPF. We have great members that have covered the important points to a point there is no use discussing most aspects of technology other than preference anymore. Being efficient becomes boring fast, that's CPF's own killing point. We need new technology and maybe we need more imagination to discuss possible advances so makers can give us that tech and feed us new interesting stuff to talk about. The end problem is; in how many ways can we make a flashlight better? We're not talking about jet engines and aerodynamic tricks, so the walls are not as numerous or as far...

I hope I'm not being too cryptic here


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## Gaffle (Nov 3, 2014)

I go on yearly sabbaticals with CPF. It doesn't help that the last light I bought I find to be superior to a lot of other lights in the EDC category, so every new thread about some (what I would consider) cheap light just flashes past my eyes with no intention of reading said thread. Yesterday I was in my account settings just looking at some older threads I participated in. Figured out that I bought my HDS in Nov of 2010. For four years I have been really spoiled by a light that IMO isn't beat. An extra 70 lumens in the new HDS models does not make the need of a new purchase. Now if HDS doesn't impress, compared to my current HDS, then all else is just fluff. So yes I agree, there is a lot of boring. 

The good ole days of reading FlashlightReviews and finding out a good light with the lux reading etc. is gone for me. I remember getting my Streamlight ProPoly lux and just loving that light. Until my daughter took it down in the basement, left it on in the cat post, and cause the alkaline batteries (not using NiMH yet) to leak and , there goes the Poly. Those were fun times. 

Even reading the HDS thread, or the Malkoff junkie thread, just gets boring. The last thread I was super into was reading about high cri lights, LEDs that were so much non-existent back then, and now the warm LED is almost becoming a new standard. Reading about warm LEDs isn't as fun as it used to be.

I have come back to CPF because I am in need of a new light. A nice warm headlamp please. I know once I get the light I'll be gone for another sabbatical. It is still fun to find some good CPF threads, there is just so much reading material that I just blow by because I have zero interest in EVERY light around.


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## sween1911 (Nov 3, 2014)

I gotta say, I find myself agreeing with this thread. The quantum leaps in technology with the LED's have made a huge difference over the last 10 years or so of CPF activity. It used to be a race to get a couple more lumens out of a hot wire, and every new light was exciting. Now you get whatever batteries, whatever LED you want, whatever circuitry in between to give the LED the current that it wants, and you're done. There's $20 lights that pretty much do all we expected out of our beloved incans did and more. 

I've actually found myself browsing CPF more because just a couple days ago I scored an old school Surefire M3 with an MN11 HOLA and it's so beautiful! It's rekindled my love of a nice warm incan beam. I'm not in a rush to slap an LED in there for runtime, I want to find a tint as close to the original lamp as I can get. I've got a bunch of LED's now, and I don't want another cold beam, it needs to have character and love now.


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## flashy bazook (Nov 5, 2014)

Norm said:


> Righto, must improve I'll get right on it.
> 
> There is no reason why *you* can't start a new thread as you described, it can then replace the superfluous stickies, are you volunteering?
> 
> Norm



Thanks for the suggestion! 

I've done my bit I feel over the years with contributing to existing and starting new threads. At one point I was doing a summary thread for Lumapower, since I liked their stuff and felt their web-skills were very poor. I took it upon myself to clean up their posts and put them in a much shorter thread, so one could actually figure out what their new products were and what were their advantages.

However, I am getting ready for another long trip out to a 3rd world country, where my access to the forum will be limited...and somehow instead of getting fewer of these gigs as I get older I seem to be getting more.

If I find a quiet period (unlikely through at least the end of the coming year, on current plans) I will try my hand as you suggest.


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## thedoc007 (Jun 7, 2015)

nbp said:


> I like the idea of a newbie questions thread! That could help limit the number of repetitive threads, in that it would be a centralized place to post thread links and such to answer questions instead of 50 new threads. I'm going to try it.



How did that go?

My main contribution is here (I don't start a lot of threads): http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?386393-Giveaway-Thread-(general-info)&p=4455303

I'm happy to say that the thread has some legs...a number of CPFers and manufacturers have gotten involved. Hope we can keep it going together!


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## nbp (Jun 7, 2015)

thedoc007 said:


> How did that go?
> 
> My main contribution is here (I don't start a lot of threads): http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?386393-Giveaway-Thread-(general-info)&p=4455303
> 
> I'm happy to say that the thread has some legs...a number of CPFers and manufacturers have gotten involved.  Hope we can keep it going together!



Mixed results; some wanted to participate, some just felt it was useless. I suppose I could give it a bump and see if it gains any traction.


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## nbp (Sep 10, 2015)

I've nailed down another culprit for this problem: People antagonizing the dedicated long timers (whose posts I genuinely want to read) until they stop posting or leave all together. That irks me. :thumbsdow


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## savumaki (Sep 10, 2015)

TIP AND RING said:


> I have found the lights that have solved 99% of my illumination needs and wants. That said, I still love CPF and still find it one of the most interesting forums on the web. The mods do a wonderful job of keeping a plethora of strong and unique personalities from turning a inch into a yard, so to speak. Often times I think that familiarity does breed contempt. I believe some folks spend entirely too much of this limited lifetime on the web. From what CPF was to what it currently has become is a nice compromise considering the quick growth of both the industry and the forum



My thoughts also;
My first 'solution' was an 2e body with a McGizmo board and a PRT head- updated the led twice and presto, the last 7 years have been need free in the house; same philosophy for outside lights (four) and all I do now is read!!!!!!!!


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## Monocrom (Sep 10, 2015)

If I listed my favorite threads, I realize that constant, daily, updates would seem horribly out-of-place in most of them. Star Halo's "Recomend a book" topic being a prime example. One recommendation every 3 months means a distinct lack of spam and a lack of mediocre titles. Though, once again, daily updates would seem out of place.


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## ForrestChump (Sep 10, 2015)

I know there are at least 2,000 good ones. I mean I do have 2,700 posts.....


:nana:


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## nbp (Sep 11, 2015)

Good heavens man, it was a joke.


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## Greta (Sep 11, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> I know there are at least 2,000 good ones. I mean I do have 2,700 posts.....
> 
> 
> :nana:



This thread is about the "Good Threads" on CPF. Of your 2700+ posts, I'm gonna guess maybe about 1% contribute to "Good Threads". Seriously... Dude, you really need to figure out what the difference is between quantity and quality... :ironic:


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## ForrestChump (Sep 12, 2015)

Greta said:


> This thread is about the "Good Threads" on CPF. Of your 2700+ posts, I'm gonna guess maybe about 1% contribute to "Good Threads". Seriously... Dude, you really need to figure out what the difference is between quantity and quality... :ironic:




It was 100% in jest. 

Part of what made it funny ( obviously only to me ) was how self absorbed it was.

Post count has never mattered, and has never been mentioned by me, but for whatever reason people like to point it out as a negative.


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## nbp (Sep 12, 2015)

It was a joke man. I deleted the "offending" post.


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## ForrestChump (Sep 12, 2015)

Last post for the thread. Im guilty of taking it off topic. I will move on.



nbp said:


> It was a joke man. I deleted the "offending" post.



Another PM inbound. My sincere apologies if you would consider them.



Greta said:


> This thread is about the "Good Threads" on CPF. Of your 2700+ posts, I'm gonna guess maybe about 1% contribute to "Good Threads". Seriously... Dude, you really need to figure out what the difference is between quantity and quality... :ironic:



First, apologies for the joke, perhaps it was completely in the wrong spot and it definitely has caused some clutter. I had 0 negative intentions and in hindsight should of just shelved that one. However, with respect. Have you read my post history? It's not perfect but I like to think it adds up to at least 2% net positive.  Over the years I have found CPF invaluable for information. I lurked 8 years before signing up. For the most part it's been a really positive experience despite a few head bumps along the way that comes with any forum. That said, and also with respect, I find your post was condescending and disrespectful and I don't appreciate it. Even though I would love to continue to be apart of CPF I can't do that if the master of the domain sets a negative tone that will spill into other threads and influence how people address "Forrest". People look to moderators & administrators for direction and to lead by example. As you know better than anyone, their actions, information & posts are usually of great service and have influence on everyone that is apart of CPF.

I have no idea what this post will cost me and I articulated it in the most polite way Im able, maybe I'll get a simple response, maybe something much more inhibiting........but I always try and treat everyone on CPF with respect and I require the same in return, regardless of the poster. 

Again to everyone, sincere apologies for the derail. If in some way Im unable to further be apart of CPF, Thanks to everyone for their contributions and all the awesomeness I've learned over the years. No need for further OT ( My fault ). Please carry on with your thread.

- Forrest


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## cigarrodog (Sep 12, 2015)

CPF is a highly sophisticated group of enthusiasts. I joined, because I know comparatively little about lights, and have an eager desire to go beyond Google. That takes time and effort before I can contribute in a productive way. I try to research first, but at some point, I have to ask noob questions. That's very intimidating, because the knowledge base here is extensive, and I don't want to appear foolish. The already suggested idea of having either an "unelightened" section as a stand-alone subforum, or integrated into other subforums would be great. This would unclog the more sophisticated threads, and allow those of us who make sincere effort to learn, but who sometimes have to ask "dumb" questions.


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## nbp (Sep 12, 2015)

cigarrodog said:


> CPF is a highly sophisticated group of enthusiasts. I joined, because I know comparatively little about lights, and have an eager desire to go beyond Google. That takes time and effort before I can contribute in a productive way. *I try to research first, but at some point, I have to ask noob questions. That's very intimidating, because the knowledge base here is extensive, and I don't want to appear foolish. *The already suggested idea of having either an "unelightened" section as a stand-alone subforum, or integrated into other subforums would be great. This would unclog the more sophisticated threads, and allow those of us who make sincere effort to learn, but who sometimes have to ask "dumb" questions.



:welcome:

Don't feel bad. I've been here for 8 years and I still feel that same way sometimes! Especially when it comes to the actual functioning of drivers and converters. I have no electrical engineering experience and I get totally overwhelmed by the skills and knowledge of other members at times. :bow:


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## cigarrodog (Sep 12, 2015)

Thank you.


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## scout24 (Sep 12, 2015)

I think that other than the B/S/T having slowed WAY down since I got here, (economy?) things come and go as far as interesting threads go. Part of it for me was trying to expand what interested me here, not just what I enjoyed earlier in my tenure. I'm still scratching the surface here at CPF, there is a whole wonderful world over in things like fixed lighting, the forge, photography, vehicle lighting, etc. Wander on over, folks. I've been here seven years here in a couple months, and still find members whose names I've never seen before.


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## Greta (Sep 12, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> Last post for the thread. Im guilty of taking it off topic. I will move on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We've had this discussion before - as a matter of fact, we've even had this discussion in person... face to face. No need for me to repeat myself yet again.

Another thing I've said many times around these forums and face to face is that if you've been around for a short period of time and I know your username and who you are, that is NOT a good thing. You still haven't gotten that.

Do what you gotta do - and I'll continue doing that as well.


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## leon2245 (Oct 1, 2015)

There's an Ebb & flow, depending on what you're into, buying/researching always seems more exciting when lots of new releases coincide, all the anticipation & review threads almost too much to keep up with. 

Statistics alone, lots of threads sustaining lots of users posting so apparently not too boring!


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## degarb (Nov 6, 2016)

Well, I used to write good threads, but I stink now days. . Maybe, I am getting older, so need even catchier titles. . My last thread start, was entitled, "Where's the G.D. Light switch?" . The one before, "How do you turn this thing off? " Before that one was, "How do you turn this thing on?" . No replies, I dont get it.


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## Bdm82 (Nov 6, 2016)

degarb said:


> Well, I used to write good threads, but I stink now days. . Maybe, I am getting older, so need even catchier titles. . My last thread start, was entitled, "Where's the G.D. Light switch?" . The one before, "How do you turn this thing off? " Before that one was, "How do you turn this thing on?" . No replies, I dont get it.


Resurrecting an old thread here!

I haven't been around as you so I can't speak to how things were in the past too much. But I can tell you that titles that one seemed funny to me now just seem like click bait. I think that's a sign of the times, but I won't even open a thread whose title doesn't tell me what the thread is about.


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## Monocrom (Nov 7, 2016)

I'll admit that a fun Zombie-style Apocalypse thread on a certain other large site having to do with knives, sprang up. The concept was that each member would post as themselves about 18 months after the outbreak took place. Posts would initially consist of how each member survived. Posts were in the form of transmissions via radio. Each member having a powerful radio to broadcast from.

Then after how we each survived, we'd get into detail about where we now were, what's happening, how we're continuing to survive, introduce fictional characters we're surviving with, etc. 

Sounds great, right? Sounds creative and fun?.... One problem though.... When you have a group of cool forum members who don't have a writer's mentality, you get a limited number of updates. Even with plenty of other members feeding ideas to each other. So, the topic soon dies; with a buttload of loose ends, unfinished survivor tales. And that's frustrating.

But that's not what actually happened. When you get someone with a professional writer's mentality, and imagination (the type that often goes like it's about to O.D. on Caffeine, Speed and cocaine) you get one guy who unintentionally basically takes over and just dominates the entire topic. Try to picture posts, each a week apart in time-stamp, just going down the page one after the other.... belonging to the very same member. Once every now & then in a rare while broken up by a lone post or two from a different member. Gets to a point where the other members are like, _"Hey, this guy's good. Let's just sit back and read his consistent weekly updates."_

And that one guy has no one to play off of, most of the time. And having that mentality, he can't leave a story unfinished. But that certain site has a 15,000 character limit per post. For a writer, that's nothing. It might as well be a 15 character limit!

Give you one guess who that one dude is, in that topic; on that other site. I love that they tune in each week. But I'm seeing an ocean of Monocroms on each page. You wouldn't believe how happy I get, just pure joy, when I check that topic and see my name isn't the last post made! :huh:

So yeah, that's why I didn't make a similar topic on CPF. I didn't even make that one. Someone else did. It would have died a few pages back but I got really into it. I'm sorry to say but I fear the same thing would happen here if I created such a fun and creative topic for us to enjoy in the cafe. Sorry guys. Sometimes creative topics just wouldn't be too popular or fun past the 2nd page.


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## markr6 (Nov 7, 2016)

leon2245 said:


> There's an Ebb & flow, depending on what you're into, buying/researching always seems more exciting when lots of new releases coincide, all the anticipation & review threads almost too much to keep up with.
> 
> Statistics alone, lots of threads sustaining lots of users posting so apparently not too boring!



I agree. For me I'm really on the decline. Zebralights are pretty much at a stand still; I was disappointed in the SC600Fd Plus. After buying a few, I know I have zero use for big throwers and 3- or 4x18650 lights in general. I don't even use 80% of my lights so they just sit around. Just nothing left for me to buy or get excited about right now.


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## bykfixer (Nov 7, 2016)

I was just saying on a thread yesterday the  emoticon used to get used a lot. And how thanks to thermal stepdown you don't see it these days. 

Having only been a member briefly in the grand scale of things I have seen a big change in the general direction of topics in my little time here. 
I read a lot of threads via the search feature so it's kind of like see-ing the movie. Early CPF topics that were once current on the current medium (VHS so-to-speak) are now available in digital. 

Many things have changed with the times. Some people have disappeared, and at times re-appear what seems like briefly, or they go into more of a lurker mode I suppose. Many are still here but just don't have a lot to say. Some are still posting more regularly.
I like it when a member from, say 2006 who has 22 posts chimes into a thread. It causes me to pause and ponder what about that one subject caused that person to post. 

Now regarding interesting topics; I suppose to the folks that really enjoyed the heyday of the ROP mags and purchased custom reflectors from members etc find a lot of the current subjects nothing but bubble gum speak with no real nutrional value. Makes sense to this flashaholic. But to the folks who either just discovered 1000 lumens from a Home Depot light or those who hope to obtain the best light $25 can buy it's the golden age. That too makes sense to this flashaholic. 

Change is a good thing. Heck if I had my way my work reports would still be hand written on carbon paper. Instead I'm the guy teaching my coworkers how to use Office 365. So I see it from both sides. 

I just enjoy the commradery here at CPF, and entering into a lively debate every now and then. Now there are times there are seemingly repeats of the same fluff. But those threads quickly slide down the page into the abyss of page 2 and beyond, then at some point more popular threads re-appear. Then you have the resugence of threads like this one, old Mag threads or stuff from the good old days. 

So yeah, I get what folks are saying in regards to things seeming stale sometimes. But this site is still a fun place to hang out, if for no other reason... pix of flashlights.


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## Monocrom (Nov 8, 2016)

Yeah, plenty of pics. of lights. But I have to say that the comradery used to be *much* better years ago. Ironically, now that the general public has access to the type of lights only true flashaholics could get; we get a lot of new members (though not all) who don't get it, don't care, and just come here to post. And you get the general public attitude to go with it. Destroying much of the comradery that used to exist. That, along with asking the same questions over and over again (without using the Search function) ticks off many of the older members. Then you have the flip side....

For some unexplainable reason (and this happens nearly every time) we get trusted members who start modding or even making custom lights. They sell them direct to members. Things are fine for awhile..... And then they become thieving scumbags! Stealing members' money and not delivering on the goods. And this very same scenario happens a disturbing number of times. Sometimes those members do the right thing for many years, before becoming scumbags! None of us really knows why. But we know it happens. Science can't explain why bumblebees are able to fly. Based on their shape and weight, they shouldn't be able to. Yet they can, and we know they can. Just no clue why.

Same thing on CPF. Off the top of my head, I can name one trusted member who hasn't become a scumbag thief (FiveMega). Other members? Give me awhile to think about it. It would honestly be easier to list the ones who haven't done that, than the ones who decided to steal from us; their fellow members. That sort of thing can destroy an online community. On CPF, it has weakened it to a certain degree. Creating some mistrust. All contributing to a lack of interesting topics.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Nov 8, 2016)

I know why bees can fly. 

~ Chance


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## bykfixer (Nov 8, 2016)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I know why bees can fly.
> 
> ~ Chance



To get to the other side of the road? 




I don't want to name names, but there are plenty of modders here who do what they say they will do. But with all those companies putting out stock lights that rival previously only unavailable lights expect the modified... well the mod squad gets overlooked by the new crowd. 

I said before "the incan section is like the public library where the LED section is like a middle school cafeteria".. or at least something similar. 
The library is nice n quiet with lots to read. The middle school cafeteria is loud, chaotic banter with folks hollering to be heard over the din. 

Still to me both have their place.


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## degarb (Nov 8, 2016)

I think lights have a long way to go, which is why I started making my own headlamps and wrist lights using cpu heatsinks-this spring after trying to modify inferior host lights for last 10 years. My own wristlights. . Too much emphasis on blasters. Too little on 400 lumen runtime on 2x1850 for 10 hour minimum infinitely dimmable. . My led bulbs are only 100lpw, my headlamp is 200lpw, but should be 303 lpw, like the press release. 200lpw lamp level, as the Philips. . Buck drivers for down to 3v at 1 to 2 watts. Infinitely ramping to zero. . All edc should have built in cccv and protection. My 500W led, claims 50k, I am measuring at 30k lumens, while my 600w metal halide is easily 80k....why are most aluminum lights so heavy, could it be that they are not aluminum but alumite? . I know I want aluminum. Not some heavy composite..... I actually watched Lowe's discontinue a light because the led bin was too high and mark up too slim, so it got axed and lower bin replaced it. . What about heatsinking, or lack thereof in store lighting? . Have they discovered a new high heat sinking plastic or optical plastic? . Most, probably not. But maybe on the infinitely dimmable energizer hd+headlight, the optic seems to be pulling heat from the pcb. Good light but needs a better battery configuration for longer runtime while keeping form factor. . What about wireless charging some of these? Wireless charging from a distance perhaps? . It is on the horizon, if the companies get funding. . How soon will we start 3d printing our light hosts? How about a solar strip on every edc to supplement the wireless and usb port, though I still envision keeping the protected 18650 until a higher density comes along ..... I think lights still have a long way to go.


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