# Need to buy a new EDC light - something powerfull!



## oregonshooter (Nov 1, 2006)

OK, I've been packing my A2 for a year or better and while it's a great light, I want something with more "kick."

I got an M3T a few months back and it's awesome, but too big for pocket carry.

Desire something that fill the following:
1. ID threats and use for searches in blackout conditions. (like 120+ lums) with good flood and throw.
2. Carry in front jeans pocket
3. 2 stage like the A2 would be perfect, no clickies allowed.
4. Prefer INC, but will consider LED

Choices so far:
1. 9P with P91 bulb
2. L4 (are there any 2 stage McGizmos available anywhere?)

Any suggestions?


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## LED61 (Nov 1, 2006)

a Z2 ? if you're gonna EDC, it better be around that size given the brightness you want.


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## oregonshooter (Nov 1, 2006)

The P61 did not impress me in my friends G2. Doesn't seem like enough of a step up to change from the A2.

Something that would use the P91 with a slender body like the E2 with an extension would seem like a good idea, but not sure if there is a LEGO solution for that?


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## carrot (Nov 2, 2006)

Right now I'm carrying a G2 with a G90 9v bulb and two unprotected RCR123A Li-ions. I'd recommend this setup, but using a G2z/Z2 or 6P as a host may be better (or you can just replace the Lexan window with a UCL.) If you can get a G90 HP (high pressure) bulb, that's even better, as it offers even more output without much detriment to runtime.

It packs more of a punch than the A2, but less than the Surefire M3T, and is very easy to carry.


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## oregonshooter (Nov 2, 2006)

So you are running a 9v bulb at 6v and getting more output than the g60? More than the g61?(120lum)

the rechargeables are running at 3.?


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## dchao (Nov 2, 2006)

A RCR123A is 3.7V (typical). So two of them is 3.7 x 2 = 7.4V.

A brand new 123 primary cell under load is about 2.6V (it's not 3V anyway). 3 of them will give you 2.6 x 3 = 7.8V

Either combination, you are going to under drive the 9V bulb. You will get dimmer light from 2 x RCR123A much faster than 3 x primary 123 cells.

If you are looking for A2 type of white light, you have got to drive the bulb at the sugguested rating (like SF is doing with their regulator to the A2 bulb). So I would recommend using a large lithium-ion cell like 17670 to drive a 3.7V xenon bulb in a Surefire body (if you want). Both AW and Wolf-Eyes has SF compatible 3.7V LA. Or even better, larger 18650 (2200mAh) cell in a Wolf-Eyes explorer body with 3.7V LA.

If you want two-stage, get a LED tailcap rather than the regular one instead.


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## carrot (Nov 2, 2006)

Normal (unprotected) rechargeable Li-ions run at 3.7v, and when you take them straight off the charger they are around 4.2v. You can use two of these in series (adds up to 8.4v) to run a 9v bulb, albeit for less runtime than using three primary cells. I believe I'm getting 100+ lumens from my G2 when I run it like this.


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## oregonshooter (Nov 2, 2006)

Sounds like a simple solution. I have a few spare G2s and an old 6P sitting around. I'll check into the Wolf-eyes also.

Any recommendations on where I can get all these parts at a good price. A UCL for my old 6P maybe?


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## oregonshooter (Nov 2, 2006)

dchao, 
What is AW?


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## carrot (Nov 2, 2006)

I bought two 9v Ultrafire lamps and the 4xRCR123 / DSD charger combo from Dae at QualityChinaGoods.com until I can source a G90 High Pressure lamp. Lighthound also offers the parts you need, and stocks the UCL you'll probably want.


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## dchao (Nov 2, 2006)

AW is a seller here, you can find him at the Dealer's Corner. Here is his 3.7V sales thread:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=127715&highlight=3.7V+bulb


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## dchao (Nov 2, 2006)

Lithium-Ion cells come off the charger at 4.2V. But once it's loaded, it's voltage will sag:

Have a look at this thread here:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=117117

Right from the start, most cells sag to 4V under 1.1A of load, which is what the 9V bulb will draw. That's still 8V in total. 1V short of what a 9V xenon bulb requires.

123 primary cells are not any better either:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=67078

Initial voltage will sag to 2.7V under 1A load, in the first few seconds.


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## carrot (Nov 2, 2006)

It will still run the 9v bulb fine, though. It won't be as bright or as white as using primaries, but it is still bright, usable light.


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## mdocod (Nov 2, 2006)

actually, a pair of good li-ions, of larger size, (1500mah+) will drive high current lamp assemblies brighter and whiter than primaries because they sag so much less than primaries. example being the P91, which runs noticably brighter and whiter on a pair of 17670s from AW than it does from 3xCR123. on low current lamps, like the G90/P90, primaries will be brighter at first, till they are parcially depleted.


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## dchao (Nov 2, 2006)

carrot said:


> It will still run the 9v bulb fine, though. It won't be as bright or as white as using primaries, but it is still bright, usable light.


What I am saying is that 9V bulb will always be under driven no matter if you're using rechargeables or primaries. I compared a 3.7V bulb driven by one 18650, the brightness and whiteness of the beam is equal to A2's regulated light, and much whiter than the 9V bulb.

Since oregonshooter's used an A2, I thought that will be a good reference point.


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## carrot (Nov 2, 2006)

But is the 3.7v bulb on a 18650 brighter?


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## ugrey (Nov 2, 2006)

Go to "G&R light packages". They make E diameter, 2 and 3 battery tubes, which take E size tailcaps and P size bezels. No adapter is needed for the P size bezel. They cost $45 each. The length on the 3 battery should be about the same as a 9P but the reduced diameter should help. I carry a SF Z3, with a P91, vertically in my side cargo pants pocket. I sew stiches at two points to keep the Z3 vertical. I hardly know it is there. SF 3 battery models do not ride comfortably in a cargo pocket in the horizontal, where as, I do not notice my G2 horizontaly in my cargo pocket.


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## dchao (Nov 2, 2006)

carrot said:


> But is the 3.7v bulb on a 18650 brighter?


 
If the 3.7V bulb is throwing out 94 Lum in front of the lamp (see Quickbeam's 6M review here), it must be doing about 100 Lum at the bulb (some loss due to reflector and lens). This means the filament is very hot and the beam is very white, will throw further.

However, the 200 Lum 9V bulb can only output 120 in front of the lamp. (See Quickbeam's review on PILA GL3 and WE 3AX both use 9V LA). As you can see it's no way near the 200 Lum max rating, so the beam appears weak and yellow.

However, the 200 Lum 9V bulb is still brighter than the 100 Lum 3.7V bulb, because it still outputs more light.

Jim Sexton's written a very good article on A2, and it explains why a 50 Lum white beam could be better than a 500 Lum yellow beam.


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## carrot (Nov 2, 2006)

My apologies. I had no idea the 3.7v / 18650 combo was as powerful as you say. Thank you for correcting my misconceptions. (no sarcasm here)


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## evanlocc (Nov 2, 2006)

Sorry to interrupt!

if you don mind the LED light. The Fenix : P1 would be the Little Kick now! 

Little - small enough to pocketing.
Kick - compare it with the FT01 ; it was both as strong !


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## oregonshooter (Nov 2, 2006)

So after 20 posts it seems that I already have the brightest most usable pocket light? The A2? I really like the G&R setup, but if the bulb is not being driven to 200Lum I wonder how much better of a beam I will get over my A2? 

I'm looking for something that is x2 the brightness, and x2 the flood. I guess I'm dreaming for such a deal in a pocket light?

Picture an M3 with a Z23 max bezel size and x2 flood. Something that will light a room up.


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## IsaacHayes (Nov 2, 2006)

I'd say for LED try the aleph a19 cree xre 2x123a light. It drives the led at 917ma so it should be right around 120 lumens or more. Basically like a luxV light, only longer runtime and much smaller package. The beam will be just like a surefire L6, with a hotspot and good flood/etc. It's got two stages too.

If I had money for it I'd buy it!


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## carrot (Nov 2, 2006)

The G&P G90 + RCR123 setup is still somewhat brighter than my A2... A little bit yellowish, but not really much of a problem when I want light.


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## Mikeg23 (Nov 3, 2006)

dchao said:


> If you want two-stage, get a LED tailcap rather than the regular one instead.


 
Could you point me to some more information of this please.


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## creampuff (Nov 3, 2006)

Mikeg23 said:


> Could you point me to some more information of this please.


 
http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=6048


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## leukos (Nov 3, 2006)

OS, you could have milkyspit mod your LED ring with THC3 LEDs, that should double its brightness. Yes, I've been requesting that SF make and A3, a three-stage light where the first setting is 1 lumen, the next is about 15, and the last a 100 lumen lamp. I wouldn't care about decreased runtime, that would be the ideal light for me. It will never happen, but I at least want to be on record for requesting it.


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## EV_007 (Nov 3, 2006)

I too run the Lighthound G90 package in my Z2 

It is brighter than the A2, but the beam on the A2 is smoother than the G90. Runtime is the main dreawback on the G90 setup.

Here are some comparison beamshotsshots I did just recently showing the G90 and A2.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/138707

The HP version seems to be hard to come by. Hope someone can stock them on a regular basis, it would be one of the smallest, brightest lights out there.


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## oregonshooter (Nov 3, 2006)

leukos,

I modded the THC3 reds into mine earlier and love that change, but would like to have a true 120-200lum light with the same beam characteristics that my A2 has now. The beam is great, but doubled it would be the perfect "Tactical Light."'

I guess the technology is not there yet.


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## benchmade_boy (Nov 3, 2006)

oregonshooter- are you planning on making any parts for the m3t? since i just got one and love your work so i thought id ask.

have a good day


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## oregonshooter (Nov 3, 2006)

Hadn't planned on it. There is no way to make a tailstand without making a complete end cap which is beyond my skill level. I think McGizmo has a nice already doesn't he?

Where you thinking of something else for it?


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## benchmade_boy (Nov 3, 2006)

oregonshooter said:


> Where you thinking of something else for it?


no i just new you had great ideas and skills so i thought you may have already made somthing.pm me or make a new thread if you do.

have a great night!


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## chesterqw (Nov 3, 2006)

you need the G&P R500.


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## oregonshooter (Nov 3, 2006)

errrr.... looks a little big for my front pocket.  I have a M85 for lighting up football fields already, but it don't EDC well either.


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## knifebright (Nov 3, 2006)

Most if not all bulbs that call for 9volts are really 7.2 volt bulbs. this is why 2xli-ion works so well. If 9 volt bulbs were really 9 volts and we put 9 volts in them there would be an imediate voltage sag and we would be left with ugly yellow light. there was a thread a while back explaining the surefire 9volt bulbs really being 7.2 and not listing it on the bulb itself in an attempt to elliminate the confusion and concern on having a 7.2 volt bult in a 3 cell set up.
jimmy


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## benchmade_boy (Nov 3, 2006)

oregonshooter said:


>


oregonshooter please tell me how does the top one (i forgot the name) compare to the surefire m6?


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## oregonshooter (Nov 3, 2006)

I got that off a thread here at CPF, I think I just searched G&R R500. It was a comparison thread and looked like they are the same for most purposes, but I just skimmed it.

BOT:
What is the most powerful INCAN in a E2E size body, willing to go 3 battery length if the tube is that small, but would have to be x2 in light output (flood is fine) compared to my A2. Anything out there?

PS. I appreciate the interest in helping me find a new EDC light.


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## Mikeg23 (Nov 4, 2006)

I know the runtime isn't great, but I think for size the AuroraLite might be a consideration. Bright and small.

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/auroralite_hotwire.htm

http://www.lighthound.com/sales/AuroraLite_hotwire_for_minimag.htm


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## yaesumofo (Nov 4, 2006)

I am very fond of my 9p with the p91 globe. it is a huge amount of light. and a very good value.
You have so many choices. I would say stich with the SureFire stuff that way in the future you can play SureFire Legos with it. adda turbo head even as extention and run a 12 volt globe in the turbo head. talk about reaching out and touching sombody.
Yaesumofo




oregonshooter said:


> OK, I've been packing my A2 for a year or better and while it's a great light, I want something with more "kick."
> 
> I got an M3T a few months back and it's awesome, but too big for pocket carry.
> 
> ...


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## lightUup (Nov 5, 2006)

I would highly recommend a UK 4AA eLED Zoom. It uses a 2-watt LED and has 2-output settings. Did I mention it uses common batteries?


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## oregonshooter (Nov 5, 2006)

I guess I should clarify, that this light needs to be 120lum + and have a momentary PB for use with a gun in Harries technique. I forget that one mans EDC is not another's.


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## Mikeg23 (Nov 6, 2006)

You can get a tail cap for the AuroraLite that allows momentary on and constant on.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 6, 2006)

I recommend a Wolf Eyes 9T (LED tailcap, 36mm tactical head) with a Surefire P91. Compared with slimmer cells of its length (17500, 150S, 300S), the 9T's 150A cells will deliver more runtime and brightness under the P91's 2.6A current.

With a P91 lamp assembly sitting in your Wolf Eyes head, you won't be able to thread the bezel on all the way, but the P91 is such fun to use, I doubt you'll mind.


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## dw51 (Nov 6, 2006)

No one has mentioned the Streamlight TL3. With 2 17500s and a H1499 bulb, it is awesome! Even without the bulb, it is a great little light(rated at 200 Lumens, although probably not really that much). Out of all my lights I still prefer the TL3 for most jobs.


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## Art Vandelay (Nov 6, 2006)

dw51 said:


> No one has mentioned the Streamlight TL3. With 2 17500s and a H1499 bulb, it is awesome! Even without the bulb, it is a great little light(rated at 200 Lumens, although probably not really that much). Out of all my lights I still prefer the TL3 for most jobs.


dw51 is right. The TL-3 is lightweight, compact and powerful. If you want a thrower with high overall output, which you can walk with for hours with in your front pocket, the TL-3 is it.


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## umc (Nov 6, 2006)

oregonshooter said:


> BOT:
> What is the most powerful INCAN in a E2E size body, willing to go 3 battery length if the tube is that small, but would have to be x2 in light output (flood is fine) compared to my A2. Anything out there?
> 
> PS. I appreciate the interest in helping me find a new EDC light.




Why not a L2?

Was just looking and I think that would work better for myself as well. I'm currently carrying a E2D and love the size, the power is good as well but the L2 has a 15 and 100 lumen output level, same body size but longer unfortunately. I like the 100 lumens as it's a bit brighter than my E2D and I can use the 15 lumens for work stuff without blinding myself.

I know it's not the 120 you were looking for but still an idea.


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## chesterqw (Nov 6, 2006)

well...looking on the bright side, christmas is near and price may go down...


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## oregonshooter (Nov 7, 2006)

The L2 was a contender but from what I'm reading the 100lum of LED is not much better than the A2 for throw and spill, plus INC is still the best for IDing stuff quickly IMO. Unless it's bright white light my Tri-Lux I just can't see LED filling the roll, but I will admit I have not given it a fair shake.


Anyone ever put up beam shots of A2 verses a L2?


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 7, 2006)

For slimness with P91 LA use a Surefire E series, or clone 2 cell body, add a one cell extender, and an E2C. Three cells but relatively slim and powerful. Use 3 CR123's or two unprotected 17500's (switch out LiIon's when starts to really dim). Lighthound should have the extender, and E2C. You will need unprotected 17500's to guarantee startup.

Bill


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## umc (Nov 7, 2006)

oregonshooter said:


> The L2 was a contender but from what I'm reading the 100lum of LED is not much better than the A2 for throw and spill, plus INC is still the best for IDing stuff quickly IMO. Unless it's bright white light my Tri-Lux I just can't see LED filling the roll, but I will admit I have not given it a fair shake.
> 
> 
> Anyone ever put up beam shots of A2 verses a L2?



I'm interested in your last question as well but don't have an A2 so I would also like to see a U2 compared.

I have a U2 which is 100 lumens led. It's one bright light with decent throw and spill but it's a different head so that may have a lot to do with it?

Can anyone comment on the L2 for brightness, throw and spill?


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## carrot (Nov 7, 2006)

An L2 has a very large flood, similar or the same as the L4. The spill is very bright and the hotspot is wide. From 8-10 feet away, it makes the area it illuminates look lighted with ceiling lights. On the U2 the beam is pretty similar but the hotspot is tighter allowing for better throw. The A2 has a tighter beam and dimmer spill than the L2.


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## lightbulbon (Nov 7, 2006)

I actually have EDCing my U-2 recently and i'm pretty happy with it. It fits well into my jacket pocket and gives incredible usable light- plus it accepts rechargeable 17650's.

On my keychain, I have a P1, which is also pretty bright. Between the two of them, I figure I have enough light to last any normal period of darkness. I mean, I could literally go from dusk to dawn- some 4 hours for the p1 and up to 40 hours at low level for the u-2 (or 5 hours at medium).

The head of the U-2 is kind of big, so I don't know if I'd edc it in jeans- but with any type of jacket or slacks it's been no problem so far.


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