# Difference between 123 and 123a Batteries



## ViReN

Hey All,

Ok.. this one is too basic.. but I must ask .... What's the difference between 123 and 123a battries ???

It all happened that I wanted to modify (another) 2 AA Flashlight .... wanting to overdrive about 20 Nichia LED's in parallel.... I thought of using Duracell 123 .... Unfortunately... they didnt fit in well .... so i had thought of using some thing still smaller... this time used CR2 (sanyo make) .... along with a small "extension" .... and this solved my problem.... now i am overdriving the led's at 4.5 Volts ( 1.5(AA) + 3(CR2) ) .... and the light output is GREAT.... 

Since so many LED's are connected in parallel and considering the internal Resistance of CR2 + AA cell .... i hope.... this wont be doing TOO much damage to LED's (while overdriving em)

Now... since I have Duracell 123 (3 Volts, lithium) ... I am looking for a Flashlight .. that can fit these cells in ... (yep... i agree... that...now this looks like .. i am becoming Flashaholic.. in literal sence !) ...

I have been through different sites... looking for the LED flashlight that is fed by 123 cell.... and even posted here on CPF ... http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=626505&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1

I Am shortening down my selection to this...
--It should have 1 - 123A ?? 123 !!! ???
--It should be pocketable (small)
--Runtime should be more than 1.5 Hrs
--Multiple LED's or 1 W Luxeon
--Simple On-Off function will also do.. 
Some thing similar to http://www.peakledsolutions.net/hcr123.html the McKinley Hi-Power Collection

Can you guys give me some suggestions ? .... 
Of Course... I wont be thinking of paying for an Arc LS ... 160.00 US$ ... is beyond my limits... (atleast for now) ...

I can do with some thing like $30 - $60 ....... i wonder if there are any good 1W Luxeon based Flashlights... at that cost.... Any suggestions / Feedback ? 

Thanks in Advance
ViReN


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## idleprocess

123, 123A, CR123, CR123A, SF123 are all the same thing - a 3V ~1500 mAh cylindrical lithium cell ~0.650" dia x 1.350" L. They have a positive button top. The button should have 2 or 3 small vents in it to prevent "exposive disassembly" failure mode.

123 cells are exceptionally good performers - most of the small high-performance single-cell lights out there are powered by a 123. Alkalines are cheaper, but definitely don't perform as well due to high internal resistance, lower energy density, and poor low-temperature performance. 123s are typiclly better-constructed than alkaline cells.

The main problem with 123s is price and availability. The retail price is astronomical - usually around $3-$4 US per cell. They can be had for $1 at The Battery Station, or you can buy SureFire brand cells for $1.25 each in bulk. Several CPF vendors run specials on 123 cells for around $1 each.


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## Bullzeyebill

The other problem with 123 (123A, etc)is their high internal resistance when battery drain approaches 1 amp or more. In SureFire lights (2 cells) under load they will dip into the 4 volt range, and will not hold voltage or amperage, over time, for long. 
Bill


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## FNinjaP90

You put two different batteries (aa+cr2) in series? That's really really bad man. You can risk them leaking.

Due to the current load you are putting on the batteries and their IR, 4.5V wouldn't be harming them that much. I drove 30 white LED's with a 4.8V nimh pack for excessive periods of time and they are still fine.


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## idleprocess

Alkalines will perform worse than lithiums when the load current approaches C.

Only capacitors seem to be able to handle discharges around or exceeding C gracefully - even then it depends on the cap.


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## KevinL

NiMH?


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## markdi

NICAD ?


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## IlluminatingBikr

[ QUOTE ]
*KevinL1 said:*
NiMH?

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*markdi said:*
NICAD ? 

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you guys asking?


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## arewethereyetdad

[ QUOTE ]
*idleprocess said:*
123, 123A, CR123, CR123A, SF123 are all the same thing - a 3V ~1500 mAh cylindrical lithium cell ~0.650" dia x 1.350" L. They have a positive button top. The button should have 2 or 3 small vents in it to prevent "exposive disassembly" failure mode.

123 cells are exceptionally good performers - most of the small high-performance single-cell lights out there are powered by a 123. Alkalines are cheaper, but definitely don't perform as well due to high internal resistance, lower energy density, and poor low-temperature performance. 123s are typiclly better-constructed than alkaline cells.

The main problem with 123s is price and availability. The retail price is astronomical - usually around $3-$4 US per cell. They can be had for $1 at The Battery Station, or you can buy SureFire brand cells for $1.25 each in bulk. Several CPF vendors run specials on 123 cells for around $1 each. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Idleprocess, this was a perfectly executed response. Helpful, insightful, and resourceful. Thanks for all of us who were secretly wondering the same thing! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## markdi

nicad and nimh handle loads exceeding 1c quite well
my rc car drains it's battery pack at 15c
and I charge them at 5c


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## ViReN

Hi,
I Know the underlying problems of keeping CR2 & AA .... thats why I keep checking them every week (usually sunday) ... its a routine now... since almost 7 weeks. I do not operate this light for more than 30-60 Seconds at a time. And to drive em longer.... i was looking for a high power DC Switching Circuit ... (20 Nichia's in parallel will draw a lot of current ... 40mA(Assuming overdriven) * 20 = 800 mA .... )@ 3.6 or 3.8 Volts ... I did get a switching circuit (thanks to Great Guys here at CPF) ... and of course I modified other lights.... ... one more Unfortunate thing was.... (I had little knowledge about driving LED's... my thinking was connecting em in parallel will produce good light ... )... and I had already made the PCB & soldered those mighty Nichia's (yes Mighty... because... if u see the o/p.... its just fab. as compared to ANY 5mm LED's ... )... Next time I go in for modifying ... In future, I will surely connect em in a combination of Series & Parallel ... and use an SMD Based Switching Circuit .... (for Optimum Results...)

As for my 123 Cells.... I am still looking.... I did visit the LongBow:Mirca, Arc LS, etc Luxeon 1 W based lights... but the cost is above $60 (which is my upper limit) ....

Can any one suggest me a better light ? .... 

Umm... Dorcy Spyder .... can it be modded with ease ??? 

THanks & Regards,
ViReN


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## Bullzeyebill

Keep on eye on B/S/T posts. Sometimes you can pick up an Arc LS for a good price.

Bill


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## FNinjaP90

Only high-current rated cells nimh and nicd tolerate draws of 10C+ well. All RC Sub-C cells are high-current cells. Try to charge walmart rayovak NIMH's at 5C and see if it doesn't die. They won't discharge anywhere close to 10C either.


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## markdi

yes you are right
2 or 3 c is not a problem for most common small aa size nimh or nicad cells


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## MrMom

viren,

For $35.00 try the Streamlight Jr. I'm very impressed that they can pack this much performance into a light with such a low price point. Tonight I compared it outside to an Arc LSL and a Arc 3W mod. The SL Jr out performed the LSL and sports very good color to boot. This 2-AA was able to out shine my SL 3-AA.


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## idleprocess

Well, put a *big* factor in front of C and you'll need an energy capacitor. Many supercaps can deal with discharge rates (and presumably recharge rates) of 200C or greater. I think that would strain the chemistry of most cells a bit.

Ray-O-Vac IC^3 cells charge at around 5C - that's how they can charge in 15 minutes.


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## ViReN

Mr Mom....

Wow.... Streamlight Jr. is THE light... perhaps that's what i am looking for... (especially for the AA Cells) ... price is really very decent one....

I have also chosen Inova XO for ... the 123 cells....

and .... TerraLUX ... Luxeon ... for my Mini Mag...

hmmm... it sure DOES put a BIG hole in my pocket ... but then.... its natural i think /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks Guys...

ViReN


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## PeLu

[ QUOTE ]
*idleprocess said:*Many supercaps can deal with discharge rates of 200C or greater. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Because their C is so small .-) (just kiddin')

[ QUOTE ]
*idleprocess said:*
Alkalines will perform worse than lithiums when the load current approaches C.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only true for some chemistries and physical layouts. The very common LiSOCl2 in bobbin takes only very low discharges currents, the spiral wound ones are able to give higher currents, but their capacity drops dramatically at higher discharge rates.


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## ViReN

*Difference bet 123 and 123a Batt: Update*

I have finally gone in for as a 1 CR123 http://www.peakledsolutions.net/hcr123.html the McKinley Hi-Power Collection & The output is really good.... not very bright as a luxeon might be.. but serves my purpose for the time being....

In Next few months... I will be going in for 
1) Still in dilema.. for selecting a proper mod / upgrade for my [email protected] 
2) Streamlight Jr... the 2AA 1W Luxeon ... 
3) Inova X0 ... the 2 CR123 1W Luxeon ... 
3) And the collection will go on /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ... and may be my signatures would have that list started /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ... and it seems as no end to it... desires u kno

-ViReN


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