# Spyderco Calypso Jr / ZDP-189 steel / calling all experts



## Pokerstud (May 18, 2007)

I was looking at the Spyderco Calypso Jr with ZDP-189 steel:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/spo/329045819.html

I did some reading up on this steel, and some articles state that it has a RC of 65-67. Supposedly, that would make a blade pretty brittle, but not this steel. What are the advantages / disadvantages of this hardness?

There are not a lot of knives out there with this steel. The Calupso Jr specs state "sandwiched between two layers of 420J2 stainless is a single layer of the new Hitachi super steel - ZDP-189", is this good, bad, ugly, optimum?

SO, I'm calling on the blade masters to help put this into perspective for me please.


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## cutlerylover (May 18, 2007)

According to the chart I go by it is 68...

http://rusticforge.com/Knives/steelchart.htm

From what I hear most people like it, but I have heard of 3 different cases where people were using a Kershaw Leek with this steel and they had the tip break off because of how brittle it was, but keep in mind that in ALL three cases these people were not using the knife properly, either prying with the tip, or in one of the cases someone was stabbing into somethgin then moving it from side to side to get the blade out...So Im sure you have nothgin to worry about as logn as you use the knife properly, but for the people who abuse their knives and use them for other thgins besides cutting, well this steel is not for them...

Now the sandwich style steels like this have very good perfomance...the harder core or middle steel gives the blade more strength, but the softer outer steel makes sharpening a bit easier...Put it this way its being used on some more expensive knives for a reason...I have not yet tried a knife with this steel yet so all this information is based on what I have read, not personal experience...


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## Danbo (May 18, 2007)

What that means is, this blade will stay sharp for a LONG time, before you need to sharpen it. Probably won't be a lot of fun to sharpen, but you've gotta expect that with a Rockwell that high.


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## Pokerstud (May 18, 2007)

Thanks Jeff, I was hoping you would chime in on this one. I am still comtemplating the Calypso Jr. as it seems to fit what I'm looking for seeing as I can't afford what I really want, and I use my knives. I'd rather totally screw up a $70 knife than a *Sebenza* :candle: I wish there were more varities available with this steel. If I get it, I'll play guinea pig and post some sort of a review.


Thanks to you also Danbo, thats a good point.


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## shakeylegs (May 18, 2007)

Pokerstud,
I bought one of these when the first run was produced hoping it was light enough to replace the AG Russell Featherlite ats-34 in my backpacking kit. Now it's my edc. It's SHARP, fits my hand perfectly, virtually unnoticeable in my pocket, and construction is solid. No play between blade and body as with the Featherlite. 
I'm guessing the J2 laminate is supposed to add some flexibility to the blade and as it is much softer steel, may be prone to scratching. Sharpening will be a chore but it still feels as sharp as the day it arrived. 

One bladeforums poster suggested that spyderco was redefining ugly, one blade at a time. I was on that bandwagon until the Calypso arrived. Looks like Spyderco is producing other standards with this steel as well. I liked the Calypso so much that I popped for a Kershaw Leek titanium w/zdp steel. That blade is solid zdp, not laminated, and I've heard about the broken tips as well. So far my experience with ZDP blades has been positive, of course I haven't had to sharpen one yet! 

The Calypso is one great knife at a decent price. I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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## Pokerstud (May 18, 2007)

shakeylegs said:


> Pokerstud,
> I bought one of these when the first run was produced hoping it was light enough to replace the AG Russell Featherlite ats-34 in my backpacking kit. Now it's my edc. It's SHARP, fits my hand perfectly, virtually unnoticeable in my pocket, and construction is solid. No play between blade and body as with the Featherlite.
> I'm guessing the J2 laminate is supposed to add some flexibility to the blade and as it is much softer steel, may be prone to scratching. Sharpening will be a chore but it still feels as sharp as the day it arrived.
> 
> ...



This is the positive I was hoping for, thank you.


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## Pokerstud (May 18, 2007)

I just ordered it from Lighthound, so we'll see.............................  

Thanks to the great replies I received, which help shed some light on my fence riding with this knife and the steel. :goodjob: :thanks: :grouphug:


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## Danbo (May 18, 2007)

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and wager that you'll love the knife, and won't regret your decision one bit. 

If you do, contact me and I'll trade you something for it.


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## Pokerstud (May 18, 2007)

Danbo said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb here and wager that you'll love the knife, and won't regret your decision one bit.
> 
> If you do, contact me and I'll trade you something for it.



OK, we'll see. I should have it Monday. I'll post my thoughts here.


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## cryhavok (May 18, 2007)

Just as some reinforcement, I have a Caly Jr. in ZDP-189...absolutely LOVE it. The fish scales on the handle are very very cool...leaf blade is awesome. 

Some people report a little bit of blade wobble when the knife is closed. Mine maybe has an extremely small amount, but nothing to really be upset/worried about. Locks up rock solid.

The advantage of the ZDP steel is that it can hold a very narrow edge much better than VG-10, 440C, and the others. I believe this knife comes with a 12.5º edge on both sides, whereas most other spidies come with a 15º edge on both sides. I only wish my sharpmaker would allow me to sharpen to a smaller edge than a 15º bank so I could take full advantage of the harder steel.


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## Pokerstud (May 18, 2007)

cryhavok said:


> Just as some reinforcement, I have a Caly Jr. in ZDP-189...absolutely LOVE it. The fish scales on the handle are very very cool...leaf blade is awesome.
> 
> Some people report a little bit of blade wobble when the knife is closed. Mine maybe has an extremely small amount, but nothing to really be upset/worried about. Locks up rock solid.
> 
> The advantage of the ZDP steel is that it can hold a very narrow edge much better than VG-10, 440C, and the others. I believe this knife comes with a 12.5º edge on both sides, whereas most other spidies come with a 15º edge on both sides. I only wish my sharpmaker would allow me to sharpen to a smaller edge than a 15º bank so I could take full advantage of the harder steel.



Thanks for your input


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## cutlerylover (May 18, 2007)

Congratulatiosn on your new knife purchase! If you have the time post a review when you get it! One thign I never hear about knives in reviews is how they feel in the users hands...I have had knives that perfomred great but didn't have that comfortabel feel when holding or usign it...but then again everyones hands are a bit different so this opinion can change from person to person...


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## Pokerstud (May 18, 2007)

cutlerylover said:


> Congratulatiosn on your new knife purchase! If you have the time post a review when you get it! One thign I never hear about knives in reviews is how they feel in the users hands...I have had knives that perfomred great but didn't have that comfortabel feel when holding or usign it...but then again everyones hands are a bit different so this opinion can change from person to person...



Jeff, I think thats important also. I'll do my best to write a review for the average working man who uses his knife on a daily basis. I have what I would call average size hands, a pair of medium sized gloves is a little snug but large are a little to big.


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## Joe Talmadge (May 18, 2007)

Agree with the opinions above. In the hand, the thin, high-performance geometry of the blade is apparent. I don't think you'll be tempted to pry with this knife, you'll pretty much know that that is not what it's for. And after you see how it outcuts every other knife in your collection, you'll figure out what it _is_ for! As stated above, it takes and holds a nice thin edge, but if you care about such things, the soft sides scratch more easily. 

You ask me, this knife is one of the best achievements in all of knifedom!


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## Pokerstud (May 18, 2007)

Joe Talmadge said:


> Agree with the opinions above. In the hand, the thin, high-performance geometry of the blade is apparent. I don't think you'll be tempted to pry with this knife, you'll pretty much know that that is not what it's for. And after you see how it outcuts every other knife in your collection, you'll figure out what it _is_ for! As stated above, it takes and holds a nice thin edge, but if you care about such things, the soft sides scratch more easily.
> 
> You ask me, this knife is one of the best achievements in all of knifedom!



Sounds great Joe, thanks.


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## Hans (May 18, 2007)

Danbo said:


> What that means is, this blade will stay sharp for a LONG time, before you need to sharpen it. Probably won't be a lot of fun to sharpen, but you've gotta expect that with a Rockwell that high.



This isn't quite correct. All modern sharpening materials are a lot harder than any knife steel. Sharpening is no problem at all when you use for instance diamond hones or a good ceramic stone. The Spyderco Sharpmaker also works very well with this steel. I actually changed the blade geometry on my Calypso Jr., making it even slimmer. I just used my DMT hones, and it was a quick and pretty easy job.

By the way, Spyderco usually runs their ZDP-189 blades at something like 63 to 64 RC, and these blades are in my experience a lot easier to sharpen than S30V or S60V. No real problems with burring, and the slim edge geometry also makes quite a difference when touching up the knife after a couple of days (or weeks) of use.

Hans


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## Pokerstud (May 18, 2007)

Hans said:


> This isn't quite correct. All modern sharpening materials are a lot harder than any knife steel. Sharpening is no problem at all when you use for instance diamond hones or a good ceramic stone. The Spyderco Sharpmaker also works very well with this steel. I actually changed the blade geometry on my Calypso Jr., making it even slimmer. I just used my DMT hones, and it was a quick and pretty easy job.
> 
> By the way, Spyderco usually runs their ZDP-189 blades at something like 63 to 64 RC, and these blades are in my experience a lot easier to sharpen than S30V or S60V. No real problems with burring, and the slim edge geometry also makes quite a difference when touching up the knife after a couple of days (or weeks) of use.
> 
> Hans




Thanks Hans, I'll keep this in mind.


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## leukos (May 19, 2007)

Joe Talmadge said:


> You ask me, this knife is one of the best achievements in all of knifedom!


 
This is quite a compliment from the knife sharpening guru!


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## Joe Talmadge (May 21, 2007)

Heh, well deserved though!


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## CLHC (May 21, 2007)

Check this site out and click on the ZDP189 where it'll take you down to that page. It details quite a bit of information plus the minor trivials associated with this material.

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/blade_materials.html#S_ZDP189


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## Pokerstud (May 21, 2007)

CHC, thanks for the reference.

I got my Calypso Jr. today. I must say, everything everybody said about this knife ( all good, don't remember anything bad ) is true, initially. It opens effortlessly, It has a very solid lock up, no blade wiggle, is extremely light, nice pocket clip, fits well in my hand, has nice form and fit, and is THE sharpest knife I have ever owned ( and my Benchmade 921 was surgical ). I will not abuse this knife, but it will put to use on a daily basis. I will be curious how long the blade stays sharp. All in all, very pleased with this purchase. Time and use will fill in the blanks. 

Jeff, better bone up on sharpening this steel, cause when the time comes, you da man!!


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## shakeylegs (May 21, 2007)

:twothumbs


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## CLHC (May 21, 2007)

You're welcome and congratulations on that Spyderco.Calypso.Jr *Pokerstud*.

Enjoy!


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## Dr_Lumen (Jul 17, 2007)

I realise I'm chiming in a bit late here, but with regard to the ZDP being sandwiched between 420J2 steel... while this will make sharpening a little easier (because there's less of the super hard ZDP to remove in the sharpening process) - the main reason for this construction is usually strength! The hard steel is brittle and therefore weak, so a softer, tougher steel laminated to the sides is primarily to give strength. Cold Steel did this with their San Mai III blades - and having done my best to kill one, I can tell you they are strong!

With a steel as expensive as ZDP there may also be a cost saving - not sure about that one.

With regard to hardness - this is not an inherant thing with a given steel, it is determined entirely by the heat treating. ZDP can be Rc 25 if you want, and most of the other steels used will hit Rc 65 when fully hard. The difference is they are TOO brittle to be practical at Rc 65, whereas ZDP is useable at this hardness. 

Cheers,
Rod..


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## GarageBoy (Jul 18, 2007)

They did the laminate is not for strength according to sal glesser, but because the factory cannot handle solid ZDP 189 blanks.

The Seki-City one will, so thats why theres the solid ZDP 189 Delica and Endura


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## Joe Talmadge (Jul 18, 2007)

Adding a weak outer laminte to a strong inner core, as opposed to a homogeneous blade of the stronger material of the same dimensions, always *weakens* the blade. These laminates are almost always weaker than homogenous blades. However, they can be much easier to work and manufacture, and definitely can provide superior toughness (although toughness is not a concern for something like the Caly 3)...


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## Dr_Lumen (Jul 20, 2007)

Hi GarageBoy - hadn't read that about Spyderco using the ZDP laminate - I'd be curious to know what aspect of the ZDP was a problem for their factory.

With regard to strength/toughness/hardness etc... My understanding of the situation is that: 
With the ZDP laminate, it is the ZDP that is weaker - it is hard, and that means brittle and therefore breakable = weak. "Hard" is quite different to "strong". You say yourself that laminates are tougher - that's what I mean by strong. 

What aspect of this don't you agree with Joe?

Cheers,
Rod..


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## Joe Talmadge (Jul 21, 2007)

Dr_Lumen said:


> With regard to strength/toughness/hardness etc... My understanding of the situation is that:
> With the ZDP laminate, it is the ZDP that is weaker - it is hard, and that means brittle and therefore breakable = weak.



Dr Lumen, "brittle and therefore breakable" does not mean weak, it means not tough. ZDP is not weak, it is strong. However, at 65 Rc it isn't tough. That really isn't a big issue for the Caly 3, which isn't likely to take hard impacts anyway. But that's what toughness is, a measure of the ability of the steel to take impact stress without cracking, chipping, or otherwise breaking. 



> "Hard" is quite different to "strong".



Hardness and strength are almost always closely related. The harder the steel is, the more resistant to plastic or elastic deformation, and that's what is meant by strength. If you look at the hardness/strength curves, you'll see strength go up with hardness to a point.



> You say yourself that laminates are tougher - that's what I mean by strong.



If you mean toughness, then toughness is the best term to use. Strength measures something else, and is best used when you mean strength! Some people ues the term "impact strength" the same as "toughness", and with the addition of "impact" that makes sense, although I'd still prefer using "toughness" for clarity.



> What aspect of this don't you agree with Joe?



So, using the terms very loosely:

- toughness is resistance to damage from impact. A laminate marries a tougher (but weaker) outer layer to a thin less-tough (but stronger) inner layer. That way, if the knife is subject to impact, the tough outer layer takes a lot of the stress, and the knife is less likely to break.

- strength is resistance to deformation. There are several different types of strength that are interesting. For a knife, strength is usually closely related to hardness. Rc hardness is measured by pushing a diamond tip into the steel under a prescribed load ... the harder the steel, the shallower the tip penetrates. In other words, the harder steel deforms less under the load of the diamond tip. We like this for knives as well -- when cutting, I want the edge to stay thin and sharp, rather than deforming under the load of cutting by blunting, indenting, rolling, etc.

Putting the two together: The laminated Caly 3 will be weaker than a full-ZDP Caly 3 (if one existed), but the laminated version will be tougher and hold up better to impacts (but since the Caly 3 is not exactly a chopper, that's a don't-care). If a full-ZDP Caly 3 existed, you'd be able to see this yourself by sticking both versions in a vise and trying to bend them. We expect the stronger full-ZDP to take more stress than the laminate without taking a permanent set (i.e., full ZDP is stronger). However, the full ZDP version will also be less ductile, and as a result we expect the laminate to take a set (deform plastically) whereas the full ZDP will crack and break sooner.


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## Dr_Lumen (Jul 23, 2007)

Hmmm, in my attempt to simplify things I seem to have complicated them.

There seemed to be some confusion in this discussion, and I was attempting to clarify things a little in layman's terms - after all, this is essentially a flashlight forum, not a knife forum!

I am a part-time knifemaker and an industrial chemist, so I am quite at home with the metallurgical definitions of these terms. However, as I've seen so often in the world of science, strict adherence to technical definitions can be very misleading for a non-specialist audience. 

For example, the comment that a hard middle layer adds strength to the laminated blade... this is true using the technical definition of strength, but I felt it would be mis-leading to most people, because in day-to-day usage, "strong" tends to mean "tough" rather than "rigid" or "resistant to deformation". So while the softer outer layers make the blade less "strong", they also make the blade more "tough"! I was just trying to make this point without giving a metallurgy lesson.

Of course, I didn't specify that I was trying to do this in "everyday speak", so I seem to have created a bit of a side thread that I didn't intend to - I was trying to keep it simple  - sorry. There just seemed to be some metallurgical novices mixed in with some metallurgical experts, and they seemed to be talking slightly different languages - I was just trying to act as interpreter - think I resign from that and just watch for a while  

Rod..


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## Joe Talmadge (Jul 23, 2007)

See, I love the side threads! And, I think you have a great point here, how to make yourself understood to the general mass of readers (who actually tend to be surprisingly interested in learning at least the basic science). For all I know, you're the one who is more clear and I'm the one confusing everyone, and it's worth figuring out how to frame this up. In all honesty, I too try to keep things in layman's terms. I've come to kind of the opposite conclusion as you. Laypeople don't use the term "strong" to mean "tough" ... in reality, they're not really sure _what_ they mean by "strong", and they routinely use it to mean both "strong" and "tough", and then they end up getting themselves confused. So, I feel like I'm clarifying by trying to teach people to use "strong" and "tough" at least vaguely correctly. Of course, even in my explanation above I"m still way-overgeneralizing and as you know we could get much more technical, but I'm using it with what I've found to be the best way to make myself understood. I don't think we need to go as far as going through yield strength and tensile strength etc.


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## Dr_Lumen (Jul 25, 2007)

Yes, I think we've nearly done this to death - I wonder if anyone else is still reading :duh2:
On the "strong" issue - I'd have said most people use strong to mean either "powerful" or "resistant to breaking" and "tough" would probably also mean "resistant to breaking" - so yes, somewhat interchangeable.

I'd have said words like "stiff" or "rigid" might be used for the technical meaning of "strong". Although as you say, different people have different definitions for many words, hence the difficulty in using non-technical language.

Gee, glad we didn't get started on handle materials 

Rod..


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## Art Vandelay (Oct 7, 2007)

This looks like a great little knife. The blade seems just about perfect.

I read a few threads on other forums by people who were unhappy with easy and quick staining of solid ZDP-189 blades. One guy said he works outside where it is very hot, and after one day in his pocket he found some rust spots on the knife. Also, he was unable to polish out the pits. 

A laminated blade like the Caly Jr ZDP-189 would not have this problem.

I think it would be more likely that a knife of mine would hit something hard at a high rate of speed than it is that something hard would hit my knife at a high rate of speed. In other words, I'm more likely to break it by dropping it in its tip than by hitting it with a hammer. As long as the blade is springy enough I'm not likely to break it.

Prying is other way I might break my knife. I know it's a bad idea to pry, but if I did, I would be more likely to break a brittle tip than a tip with some give.

I might get one. I wish they made one a little smaller, but it might be small enough.


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## pae77 (Feb 15, 2008)

I came across this old thread and just wanted to correct a few things about ZDP-189 and the Caly Jr. 

The laminated ZDP-189 used in the Caly Jr. does NOT make the Caly Jr. any easier to sharpen. Why? Because from the edge of the blade up towards the spine for about 1/4 of an inch, that part of the blade is solid ZDP (there is a clearly visable line where the laminate ends and from that point down to the edge on the blade, it is solid ZDP-189). So until you wear down about 1/4 an inch of metal off the edge, you will always be sharpening 100% ZDP.

Also, Sal Glesser, the owner of Spyderco has stated that the reason the ZDP laminate was used in the Caly knives was solely because the laminated material could be stamped whereas solid ZDP cannot. (Sorry, don't have a link to that comment available.) The newer knives they are making in solid ZDP are being laser cut instead of stamped. So the laminate in this case has nothing to do with wear characteristics or staining. It is purely because they could produce these by stamping out the blades because with the laminated steel, the hard ZDP core is thin enough to be stamped.

Third, I agree the Caly Jr. in ZDP-189 is a great knife for the money. Really great of Spyderco to make such relatively exotic steel available in a wonderfully designed and affordable knife.


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## Art Vandelay (Feb 15, 2008)

pae77 said:


> I came across this old thread and just wanted to correct a few things about ZDP-189 and the Caly Jr.
> 
> The laminated ZDP-189 used in the Caly Jr. does NOT make the Caly Jr. any easier to sharpen. Why? Because from the edge of the blade up towards the spine for about 1/4 of an inch, that part of the blade is solid ZDP (there is a clearly visable line where the laminate ends and from that point down to the edge on the blade, it is solid ZDP-189). So until you wear down about 1/4 an inch of metal off the edge, you will always be sharpening 100% ZDP.
> 
> ...


I did finally by the Caly Jr ZDP-189 a couple of months after I made that post. You are right about it not being easier to sharpen than solid ZDP. Thanks for pointing that out.

This quote is taken from a post on Bladeforums by Sal Glesser (the owner of Spyderco). 
"...Hi VAssili, nothing wrong with stamping. ZDP is too difficult to stamp in a thicker format without damaging the tooling. By laminating with a "softer" material in a sandwich, the softer material is the bulk of wht is being stamped so the tooling isn't damaged. CPM steels cannot be stamped either.


some will argue one method is better than another depending on their "sales pitch", IMO, "all good, just different"."
​This is a link to the full post. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3298966&postcount=19


I love ZDP-189. It has good points and bad, but for many tasks nothing is better. It is more expensive than some other steels still, I'm already looking at some new Spyderco ZDP-189 knives. I'll list them below.

The Caly3 Carbon Fiber has a Laminated ZDP-189 blade. MSRP $249.95
The Delica is available with a Solid ZDP-189 blade. MSRP $119.95
The Endura is available with a Solid ZDP-189 blade. MSRP $130.95


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## Dr_Lumen (Feb 23, 2008)

pae77 said:


> I came across this old thread and just wanted to correct a few things about ZDP-189 and the Caly Jr.
> 
> The laminated ZDP-189 used in the Caly Jr. does NOT make the Caly Jr. any easier to sharpen. Why? Because from the edge of the blade up towards the spine for about 1/4 of an inch, that part of the blade is solid ZDP (there is a clearly visable line where the laminate ends and from that point down to the edge on the blade, it is solid ZDP-189). So until you wear down about 1/4 an inch of metal off the edge, you will always be sharpening 100% ZDP..


 
Sorry if that was mis-leading - it was meant as a general comment - I haven't actually had the opportunity to examine the Calypso Jr. - some laminates are almost all the way to the edge. From what I've seen, the amount of core steel exposed (1/4" of ZDP mentioned here) usually varies from blade to blade - it might only be 1/8" on another sample. But again, that's a general comment and may not apply specifically to the Caly Jr. :shrug:

Thanks for answering the question about why they use the laminate instead of solid ZDP - makes sense, but I'd never heard the reason (I've always gotta know why?!?) :thinking:

Cheers..


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## Dr_Lumen (Feb 23, 2008)

Art Vandelay said:


> This looks like a great little knife. The blade seems just about perfect.
> 
> I read a few threads on other forums by people who were unhappy with easy and quick staining of solid ZDP-189 blades. One guy said he works outside where it is very hot, and after one day in his pocket he found some rust spots on the knife. Also, he was unable to polish out the pits.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Art,

Just a comment on this – it’s something I’ve noticed consistently but have never seen anyone else comment on it – so I may open up a whole new side-thread, but I think it’s worth mentioning…

When a steel stains/corrodes/rusts readily, it will also do this on the very cutting edge – so it goes blunt without use! This may just mean, “losing its bite” or it may mean going quite blunt, but you get the idea. 

So in the case of our laminated ZDP – while the laminated surfaces stay nice and shiny, you may still have this “rusting blunt” problem at the cutting edge. Now, before people take offence, I am NOT poo-pooing ZDP – I have a Kershaw Leek with ZDP and I like it – but it lives in a very “non-corrosion-inducing” environment, so if there were a potential problem, I wouldn’t see it. I have read a number of reviews about ZDP, and many of them mention a corrosion issue – and laminating the blade wouldn’t prevent the “rust-blunt” phenomenon.

This obviously depends not only on the steel, but also on the environment in which it lives.

I’d be interested to hear any comments on this. 

Cheers :laughing:


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## Art Vandelay (Feb 24, 2008)

Dr_Lumen said:


> Hi Art,
> 
> Just a comment on this – it’s something I’ve noticed consistently but have never seen anyone else comment on it – so I may open up a whole new side-thread, but I think it’s worth mentioning…
> 
> ...



I have not had any rust on my ZDP-189 Caly Jr. I wipe it dry if it gets wet. Somebody who uses a knife at sea, or who sweats enough on a regular basis to get and keep a pocket knife damp would be more likely to have problems with rust. A better steel for those conditions would be H1. H1 will not rust. H1 has nitrogen instead of carbon. Other types of stainless steels can rust. If I did get a little rust, I would rather get it on the edge, because I could remove the rust along the edge by sharpening the blade.

Before I switched to stainless pocket knives I occasionally had a little rust. As I recall, the rust was more more often near the finger notch. I did not see it as much near the blade edge. I was not as likely to have my fingers near the edge, so I was less likely to leave fingerprints near the edge of the blade.


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## Styerman (Feb 24, 2008)

There are a couple of good threads on sharpening ZDP over on the Spyderco forums . A spyderco Sharpmaker will do the job just fine . Its no prybar , but it makes a great EDC . I had a William Henry in ZDP , an it was a pocket scalpel . 

Chris


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## Dr_Lumen (Mar 6, 2008)

Art Vandelay said:


> I have not had any rust on my ZDP-189 Caly Jr. I wipe it dry if it gets wet. Somebody who uses a knife at sea, or who sweats enough on a regular basis to get and keep a pocket knife damp would be more likely to have problems with rust. A better steel for those conditions would be H1. H1 will not rust. H1 has nitrogen instead of carbon. Other types of stainless steels can rust. If I did get a little rust, I would rather get it on the edge, because I could remove the rust along the edge by sharpening the blade.
> 
> Before I switched to stainless pocket knives I occasionally had a little rust. As I recall, the rust was more more often near the finger notch. I did not see it as much near the blade edge. I was not as likely to have my fingers near the edge, so I was less likely to leave fingerprints near the edge of the blade.


 
The corrosion I'm talking about isn't necessarily visible as "rust" - but it's enough to dull a sharp edge. I've had this occur on knives that haven't been carried and haven't been stored in a humid environment. I'm not saying it's a problem with ZDP, and for a knife in general use, you wouldn't notice it. It was just a comment based on the many other comments I've seen about ZDP having a problem with corrosion. And it depends on your personal priorities - edge holding over aesthetics or vice versa.


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## EssLight (Aug 30, 2009)

I am bumping this old thread because it has alot of information that helped me understand laminated ZDP-189 steel. I especially appreciated the discussion of "stong" versus "tough". I'm an engineer, I understand the technical definitions, but the discussion helped me get a "real world" feel for what is going on.

Pokerstud, if you see this, are you still using the Caly Jr? Can you give us a long-term review?

Now, the interesting story of how I ended up reading this thread. I was going through the process of "knives I would want to own if I had the money to spend", and I settled in on the Spyderco Caly 3 Carbon Fiber. I was trying to find more information on the ZDP-189 steel, I found a number of good sources. But nothing that went into the reason or functional purpose for the lamination. So I googled "laminated zdp-189" (without quotes), and _*this thread*_ was the top listing. I was digging around for information about a knife, and I end up back at CPF. Amazing.

EssLight


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