# Mini-Lathe possibilities?



## Robocop (Apr 26, 2011)

I have been reading here for a few days and find it simply amazing at the skill levels of some of our members. I am ashamed to say I do not visit here much but none the less here lately find this to be a facinating area.

I have searched many sites and find that there is so much information out there on lathes I find it a little hard to grasp. Basically I am a weekend modder and enjoy tinkering around with hand tools mostly. I mostly like smaller single cell lights and am curious if a basic mini-lathe has the capabilities to make a smaller cell light from a solid bar. Nothing fancy just simply bore out a tube, add threads, chamfering, o-ring grooves...etc:

I know I would require certain tools and attachments however I am not even sure if a mini-lathe is capable of accepting the needed attachments. I also know a mill is needed for certain things but simply to get started would something like a 7x12 mini-lathe be ok? I am also wondering the diameter most minis will take. I would not mind playing around with some old Mags by cutting them down but again have no idea if a mini will handle that. Knurling would be fun too but again I know zero of the process.

I was looking at my old Orb Raw and notice it is really a simple design. Direct drive drop in placed inside a threaded tube. It takes years to master the details I know but the basic concept would be fun to play around with if a mini-lathe would allow it.

And yes there is a Harbor Freight within 30 miles of me so most likely it would be my starting point. Again I know the bigger machines have better motors,more options, and longer life but as this idea is a weekend hobby I would not need the biggest and best.

I am thinking I would allow maybe 750 dollars to start this up. I am basically interested in tinkering however trying to avoid buying a machine that is not proper for my interests. I will most likely end up with several polished metal tubes and shavings all over the garage for nothing...hehe

Thanks for the time.....and yes I tried searching here for the answers however all the technical talk used simply confused me more.


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## PCC (Apr 27, 2011)

In theory, a 7 X 12 lathe can handle a piece of material that is 7" in diameter and about 12" long. In reality, it's more like 4" and 10", respectively. Less length if you are boring it as you need to account for the length of the boring bar, too. A 7X12 mini lathe can be used to make small single CR123a or D cell lights, but, would be a bit of a stretch for a 2D light. It might sound funny, but, I'm finding that it's easier to make a light for, say, a CR123a or AA than for an AAA battery since my boring bar needs a hole drilled through the material that is at least 12.5mm in diameter and a AAA battery is around 10.5mm, requiring a 11mm diameter hole. Yes, I can drill a 11mm hole, but, I want to then run the boring bar through it to clean up the inside walls of the tube. Threading requires two cutters, one for inside threads and one for outside threads. The lathe needs to have a power feed for threading, too. Knurling requires a knurling tool and practice. I've cut O-ring grooves using a parting tool on the outside of the body, but, I have not done any inside grooves, yet. To be honest with you, I have not made an entire light from scratch, though I've come close. Cutting down a 2D Mag and threading the end to eliminate the factory switch is possible, but, doing the same for a 3D would be difficult as it is reaching the limits of the machine. Learning the limits of the machine will go a long way towards making your experience more pleasant and less wasteful.

Keep in mind that I'm a self-taught garage machinist using a 7X12 mini lathe in my garage making and modifying flashlights for myself and friends. It's fun and can be frustrating at the same time. I've heard it said many times that you should draw out what you want to do before starting a project, but, I find it easier to just start with an idea in my head and go from there. It's more wasteful this way, though, as I've found that I will sometimes use too much material for a project or have to start over on something because I didn't use enough. If I have a clear idea of what I'm trying to do and I've already made one or two then I tend to make things with less waste.

A pretty good resource for you would be to look at the tutorials at www.littlemachineshop.com.

Some things I suggest that you buy:
Digital caliper (measure twice, cut once)
Dial indicator (very good for measuring runout or centering a piece of stock if using a 4-jaw independent chuck)
Scissors-style knurling tool
Quick change tool posts (saves time)
Thread cutting inserts (inside and outside)
Left and right-hand cutters
Parting tool
Safety glasses (very good for keeping sharp swarf out of your eyes)
Cutting oil

A mill is best for making straight cuts and slots. I've found, since getting my lathe, that I only use my mill as a drill press these days. Trying to make a square piece of aluminum round using a rotary table takes a bit of time and is not very precise. Doing the same job on the lathe is fairly fast and a lot more precise than using the mill.


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## PCC (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh, I almost forgot: I upgraded the chuck on my lathe to a 5" 4-jaw independent chuck because the hole through the original chuck was about 5/8" in diameter. The through-hole in the head stock of my lathe is about 0.80" and the hole on the 5" chuck is about 1". This will allow me to put a Mini-Mag body inside of the chuck to do cutting and threading operations much easier and with less chance lf the part slipping in the chuck, ruining the flashlight body. This brings up a good point: mounting a piece of aluminum stock securely in the lathe needs to be your primary focus when starting anything on the lathe. A part spinning along at speed becomes a projectile if it comes loose from the chuck and can seriously injure or even kill you. I've had parts come loose in the lathe from the pressure of the cutting tool against the material. Fortunately, I wasn't using high speeds when this happened and I only ended up with some dented and gouged parts.


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## gadget_lover (Apr 27, 2011)

If you search this forum you will find that I'm a supporter of using the 7x12 for learning and for small lights. It does everything a bigger lathe does, and in the same way. The difference is that the work envelope is more limited, and so you may find yourself using big lathe tricks to get the work done.

To answer some of the questions....

You can definitely do all operations on small lights ( under 7 inches long) and you can do external operations on some longer lights.

You can buy all sorts of attachments for the 7x12. The only thing that does not add easily is a top quality DRO. There is just not enough room to mount a big scale and reader without getting in the way of something.

Bigger lathes also often have enough room for features like a quick change (QC) gear box or a camlock chuck mount. These features will only save a few minutes per use, but they encourage you to use the right chuck or collet for the job. Sometimes a 3 jaw scroll chuck is better than a 4 jaw. Sometimes you should use a collet. If you have to hassle with screws and bolts you may chose to use the one that is currently mounted.

Since I do not have a QC gearbox, I will sometimes use whatever thread the machine is set up for rather than change the gears. It's usually not a big difference.

The diameter it will take depends. You generally want to work as close to the chuck as practical, ideally within a couple diameters. If you have something long like a gun barrel, you will want to pass it through the spindle. The bore is just under 3/4 inches. On the other hand, you can get chuck with a bigger center hole, so a shorter 1.5 inch diameter piece may fit mostly in the chuck and jaws. If it's short and large diameter it will be held only by the jaws. The largest piece I've done was a 6 inch disk. At some point the jaws will hit the bed.  My lathe has 3 chucks and an ER32 collet chuck. It takes about 5 minutes to swap them.

Daniel


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## Robocop (Apr 27, 2011)

Thank you very much for the easy to understand replies. My problem was I kept reading sites with things like swingover, carriage distance, spindle bore, cross slide....well you get my point. Not being familiar with the lathe dialogue I was quickly lost.

Well from my searching I actually have found many people really like the MicroLux 7x16 and I also found a few good reviews on the cheaper Harbor Freight 8x12. Is the 8x12 still considered a mini lathe and if so a pretty good one?

I just finished reading a few positive reviews on this littlemachineshop.com lathe and it claimed to have the most power and features of them all.... http://littlemachineshop.com/4100

I found pretty quickly that for every good review there are some who say the product is bad. Everyone has their own opinions and I would trust the experience from the real users here more so than the internet. Thank you again for the education as well as the time. I am going to look around town this week and get some prices from my local sources.


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## will (Apr 27, 2011)

I have been using an ENCO mini lathe for a few years now. I bored out the original chuck to 3/4 inch so I could put a Mini-Mag body in the chuck. There are lots of things you can do, but there are limits as well. I only work with soft material, aluminum, brass, plastics, wood and so on. I tried some stainless and some regular steel with poor results. The power feed used for threading has all plastic gears, I have broken a few over the years. I like the lathe a lot, I can move it around as I have a small shop and space is at a premium. The mini is a good starting point. I got mine used on ebay - under $300. I make most of my own cutting tools, HSS blanks. I can do that because HSS is fine for soft materials. 

I think if you go back and look at what the various members here have purchased over the years you will find that those that started with a mini lathe upgraded to a larger machine after a period of time. 

If you have no experience with working on a lathe, I would suggest an adult education class, or if you know of someone who has a lathe, get some experience before you purchase something. 

The previous posts have good information.


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## Codiak (Apr 27, 2011)

Robocop said:


> I just finished reading a few positive reviews on this littlemachineshop.com lathe and it claimed to have the most power and features of them all.... http://littlemachineshop.com/4100
> 
> I found pretty quickly that for every good review there are some who say the product is bad. Everyone has their own opinions and I would trust the experience from the real users here more so than the internet. Thank you again for the education as well as the time. I am going to look around town this week and get some prices from my local sources.



I got the LMS for Xmas, any issue is caused by newbieisms not the machine!

It has plenty of power and works great for single cell applications. I have learned to cut my stock down to 6 inches though leaving room for an end stock drill bit.

When you do choose to buy a machine there are a couple items worth getting up front:
Quick release tool post, no reason to break the bank but it will help
Indexable tool set
Internal thread tool
Parting tool
Knurreler
Hss blanks
4 inch chuck
Guages for centering


Other power tools
grinder
Chop saw
Drill press


At a later date you might consider the mill adapter
Drill press
Other power tools


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## HarryN (Apr 27, 2011)

If you are 20, then any lathe can work, as you will replace it in a few years. If you are 50, then you don't have as many years to figure this out, so buy a bigger one. The length tends to not limit me as much as the diameter of the hole at the chuck. If you are playing with lights, this ideally needs to be at least as large as the battery tube so it can slide in. If not, you won't be happy.

There are a lot of used tools on craigslist and local machine vendors. Don't be afraid to go a bit larger and pick up something from a machine shop.

At the risk of pushing this too hard, I would seriously try to get a simple cnc based setup instead of entirely manual. I didn't know anything and was able to learn it. I find it easier to let the machine do the work, especially if I need to make 2 of something.


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## wquiles (Apr 27, 2011)

I want to second (or third?) the posts above that mention a 7x as a good lathe for the "weekend machinist warrior". Like Daniel states above, you can do a "lot", if you stay within the work envelope of the machine you get.

Examples of work done on the 7x by myself:

-custom parts for custom flashlights:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/192304

- work on custom Mags, the 1C being one of my all-time Mag favorites:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/134339
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/189119
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/136176

- custom parts not available anywhere:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/149742
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/147652

custom prototypes/mods:
- https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/115724
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/131690
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2496892&postcount=71

That being said, a larger lathe does offer several advantages, if you have the space and budget for it (I would love to have a 3-4K pound 14x lathe!). After the sub-100 pound 7x and my current 1100-pound 12x, I had an 8x machine, that although a little bit "raw", is stronger/stiffer/heavier than the 7x machine:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?193712-Variable-Speed-1HP-on-HF-8x12-running!

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?171871-Mods-for-my-HF-8x14-lathe-...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?195665-Mounting-6-quot-Bison-set-tru-on-HF-8x12-lathe-...

Will


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## Robocop (Apr 27, 2011)

wquiles those links are exactly what I needed and I appreciate the effort. I am at work now however I will be reading these links later tonight. I will most likely go look around some local machine shops just out of curiousity. I have had many hours of trying to figure out simple stuff using a dremel tool and files and have so many ideas that I could not figure out with hand tools. It would be nice to have a simple lathe just to play around with. Thank you all again for the information.


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## wquiles (Apr 27, 2011)

Robocop said:


> wquiles those links are exactly what I needed and I appreciate the effort. I am at work now however I will be reading these links later tonight. I will most likely go look around some local machine shops just out of curiousity. I have had many hours of trying to figure out simple stuff using a dremel tool and files and have so many ideas that I could not figure out with hand tools. It would be nice to have a simple lathe just to play around with. Thank you all again for the information.


 
You are welcome - glad I was able to help.

Having the 12x allows me to do things easier and faster, like swallowing a complete 3D Mag inside the chuck/spindle, or take a single pass in Aluminum at 0.050" to 0.1" (reducing the diameter by 0.1" to 0.2") without even breaking a sweat, but the truth is that with patience and good planning, you can do awesome work on a small lathe 

Will


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## precisionworks (Apr 28, 2011)

The lathe is the inexpensive part ... the tooling is the biggest investment. Some, but not all, of the toolholders I use:







Sure, you can get by with three or four tool blocks, switching tools as needed. This means recentering each time a different tool is loaded. With enough tool blocks, each tool stays on center & is ready for immediate use.



> a larger lathe does offer several advantages, if you have the space and budget for it


+1

About a year ago, the 10" South Bend was replaced by a 14" 3000# machine. It is so much more capable, even though it takes up no more floor space than the smaller machine. The headstock bore is 1.875", and the chuck through hole is 2.250"

Lots of machining can be done on a smaller machine, but everything is more easily done on a larger machine ... even if the part is tiny.


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## criminalhate (Apr 28, 2011)

I just picked up a mini lathe off of CL for $150 (it was one of the HF ones). I know I want to upgrade sooner or later but I know the mini will get me cutting metal now not 2 or 3 years from now.

I say you won't know the capabilities of a lathe until you have one and put it to use. Once you learn, you will know what the shortcomings are of the machine your using and get a better idea of what to get next. I had no idea what I needed or wanted from a lathe but I already know what I want for the next one and I've only had this one for about 2 weeks.


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## Kestrel (Apr 28, 2011)

Very very interesting ... :thinking:

I did a bit with a lathe in college (like a hundred years ago) and nowadays it drives me crazy every so often not to be able to crank some little thing out ... I'm next to a community college and also have a friend who is a machinist, so I would hopefully not be completely without guidance if I got something like this ...

Virtually everything that I end up wanting to mess with is the size of a SureFire 9P or smaller (no Mags, thank you ). Would a 7x10 actually be usable for this - I'd be happy not needing something larger ... ? (And yes, I know that most folks eventually have to go for something larger, LOL ...)

Sorry for the noob Q's as well but this thread is right up my alley ...


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## wquiles (Apr 28, 2011)

Kestrel said:


> Virtually everything that I end up wanting to mess with is the size of a SureFire 9P or smaller (no Mags, thank you ). Would a 7x10 actually be usable for this - I'd be happy not needing something larger ... ?



Short answer, absolutely (and I am glad you left the Mag's out - as I personally believe you need something much bigger to truly, safely, handle Mags properly).

Longer answer, you might need more steps/planning ahead of you (maybe the 9P would not fit through the chuck's/spindle hole), you would need to take lighter cuts, etc., but yes, it is a great way to get started. Just realize that (as Barry pointed above) you will still be spending a good deal on cutting tools/accessories/etc. - it makes the price of the lathe seem small after a while ...

Will


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## Blindasabat (Apr 28, 2011)

I was very close to posting a thread exactly like this. Researching mini lathes I have found a lot of small lathe options including Taig and Sherline(made locally) in addition to the assortment of variations of the same 7x12 machines. I don't have a lot of room, and basically need to finance the purchase with light sales from my collection.

Of the 7x12's, I think I'd go with the Littlemachineshop Hi Torque or Grizzly as they seem to be upgraded to the Seig (the factory that makes 99% of the 7x12's) SC2 brushless DC drive with more torque and several other upgrades. These are $600-680 and come setup for threading and appear to include a compound tool rest. All have 20mm (0.787") spindle bores. In general, the newer the Seig, the better. These are in the 75-90 pound weight range since they include a lot and have feet, splashguards, engine and controller cover boxes, etc., - see the pictures on the internet.
There are 7x10's (actually 7x8") that are a little cheaper, but don't have the recent upgrades and I worry I'd outgrow the 8" between centers the first time I want to do anything to a two cell light body and not be able to do anything about it.

Sherline is similar to the Seig's except is smaller & comes in more basic form for more $ (made in the US), but the basics are well done with variable DC drive, but I'm not sure if it's brushless. They can be reconfigured to longer beds (iirc) if you need more room, and have head&tailstock risers available to add 1" to the swing radius. Plus, you can swap to a mill 'headstock' and have similar component availability as the 7x12's - if only from Sherline, Enco, and a couple others. These are very small and light (~30 pounds!) too. Does anybody know the spindle bore of these?

Taig is another lathe setup that is available in an even more basic version than Sherline that you have to put together yourself (starting at ~$150 without motor or pulleys) to ~$500 built with motor and tailstock plus some extras. Also very small and light like the Sherlines, but even smaller. Also lots of accessories, but I can't find a longer version or longer bed to upgrade.

Any opinions on these options considering that I want to be able to make heads for flashlights and headlights (under 2 inches/50mm long), some bodies (likely cut & rethread 2xCR123 bodies which I would bore out AL chuck jaws to fit inside the chuck) and lots of other small stuff around the house.

I'm leaning toward the Sherline though it is a little more expensive, but my mind is far from made up. Sherlines are less likely to be found on CraigsList and on eBay they don't have the metric dial versions. Use-Enco hes best price I have found.
But I will likely keep watching CL for a lightly used lathe to learn on and then get what I find I need from there.


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## precisionworks (Apr 28, 2011)

> you will still be spending a good deal on cutting tools/accessories/etc. - it makes the price of the lathe seem small after a while ...


If you have room, a 10" swing lathe can be a great "starter" machine that may serve your needs for years or decades. Actually, anything in the 10"-12" range has lots of versatility. The BXA size quick change tool post fits lathes from 10"-15" swing, so if you upsize from a 10" to a 14", that's one part you don't have to buy again. Most 10" machines have a #2 Morse Taper tailstock, so a live center that fits the 10" will also work (with an inexpensive adapter) in the 12" or 14". Same goes for a tailstock chuck. 

The 7-8-9 inch machines use smaller tooling. I'd forgotten how small the AXA tool post is until I picked mine up to list on eBay. Shank size for the smaller tooling is 1/2" square, while the next size up uses 5/8" square ... that's 50% larger in area.

If you think a 10" machine will fit, it's a pretty good size.


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## Blindasabat (Apr 28, 2011)

All the Seig made (all the common Chinese 7x) lathes have 20mm spindle bores. 
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Info/minilathe_compare.php


wquiles said:


> maybe the 9P would not fit through the chuck's/spindle hole


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## Kestrel (Apr 28, 2011)

Robocop said:


> And yes there is a Harbor Freight within 30 miles of me so most likely it would be my starting point. Again I know the bigger machines have better motors,more options, and longer life but as this idea is a weekend hobby I would not need the biggest and best.


BTW I've just called three Harbor Freights (including Portland Oregon and Tacoma Washington) and nobody claims to even stock these - they say those are online/Internet only, so that's a bummer from the convenience and customer service angle.



Blindasabat said:


> All the Seig made (all the common Chinese 7x) lathes have 20mm spindle bores.


So that's a go or no-go for the hypothetical SureFire 9P then? Not fitting inside the spindle bore just means more work, right?

BTW, thanks for pointing out that comparison chart/info summary web link. It's not an issue to add a tailstock drill chuck to those, right? (That looks like the first accessory to buy, LOL)

Thanks for all the beginner info folks,

Edit: Honestly, after doing some reading I'm liking that MicroLux 7x16 though ... ?
Check out this review on the mini-lathe.com website. (Seems to be a good site that that does an excellent job of explaining the terminology with a considerable amount of photo documentation. Tutorials and all sorts of stuff for a beginner.)


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## Robocop (Apr 28, 2011)

Wow you guys were not kidding as I have spent much time today researching all kinds of tools and add ones for these machines and the cost adds up quickly. There are many mods you can do to these machines to improve and customize them to your likes.

I will say I saw a video of a person actually grinding their own tool shapes and it was pretty interesting. I even saw where many people actually make their own parts,with their lathe, for their lathe. It seems like a very expensive hobby once you start buying all kinds of add ons and attachments. 

I do have a question about threading that I could not find a visual guide for. I would use the lathe for cutting down bodies and rethreading them and also for maybe making a few of my own design from scratch. What is the average TPI for most smaller lights? Something like the Arc LS or something newer like a 4Sevens Quark? I ask that as the graph posted above shows the Grizzly much higher than others in threading range. It goes from 4 to 80 TPI and I was wondering if this means it is better or would I ever really need that kind of range just tinkering with lights? The other models stop at 52 TPI so I assume most people never use higher ranges anyway.

Kestrel you may be right about Harbor Freight as I just checked an online search for the one here and it does not show many of their lathes as "in stock".....online order only. The first chance I get I plan to visit one in person and see just what they have. If nothing else maybe I could get some tools and things there before I decide on a lathe.


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## precisionworks (Apr 28, 2011)

> I saw a video of a person actually grinding their own tool shapes


That was a common sight in both commercial shops and home shops ... until around 1950. At that point, carbide prices dropped low enough that most commercial shops went that route and home shops followed.

Some people like to take a HSS blank and grind a tool ... but there's hardly a practical reason to do that today. Coated carbide inserts will run at least 2X faster than HSS, sometimes 3X or 4X faster. Even at those speeds, the cutting tip lasts 30+ minutes (in the cut) and indexing a fresh edge takes under a minute.


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## gadget_lover (Apr 28, 2011)

Blindasabat said:


> I'm leaning toward the Sherline though it is a little more expensive, but my mind is far from made up. Sherlines are less likely to be found on CraigsList and on eBay they don't have the metric dial versions.


 

The Sherline is not only smaller and lighter, it's also less rigid. Add a riser and it becomes even less rigid. You want it to be rigid enough that nothing vibrates (chatter) as you cut. Stiffer also means that the power of the motor will not cause it to deform.

People have done a lot of good work on the Taig and Sherline. They do not allow you to cut threads, so many flashlight processes will require you to buy taps and dies instead.

To counter the increased flexibility you simply use less horsepower and make lighter cuts. Sounds like a no brainer, right? But think about the need to drill a flashlight body for a CR123 battery. That's a lot of metal being removed, so it will take a bit of power. Think about reducing a 1 inch tube to .8 inches, .010 inches a pass. That's a lot of cranking of the wheel.

If you are looking at that class of machine, you're better off stepping up to the 7x class.

Daniel


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## gadget_lover (Apr 28, 2011)

Double post;

So let me simply say that the lower power motor on the typical 7x12 lathe is actually sufficient for most needs. The 90 pound lathe is not stiff enough for a really strong motor. When you DO manage to jam a tool in the work and stall the motor, you realize how much power is in a spinning mass with a 1/3 horse motor running it. 

Daniel


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## Blindasabat (Apr 28, 2011)

Kestrel said:


> So that's a go or no-go for the hypothetical SureFire 9P then? Not fitting inside the spindle bore just means more work, right?


I'll leave it to far more experienced people to confirm, but I have read that you need a spindle bore large enough for a long flashlight body to fit into to machine the end of it. You can't have more than 2 or 3 diameters sticking out of the chuck. The 9P/6P bodies are 1inch OD, so the bore would have to be over 1". If your chuck inner diameter is big enough you can at least sink the body in that deep.



Kestrel said:


> BTW, thanks for pointing out that comparison chart/info summary web link. It's not an issue to add a tailstock drill chuck to those, right? (That looks like the first accessory to buy, LOL)


No problem, but some of that info may be old. I would check the specs of a lathe you are looking at to see if it has been updated.


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## Blindasabat (Apr 29, 2011)

Yeah, I am thinking hard to try to figure out what I will be doing with a lathe beyond the few projects and mods I have in mind, but you never know what will need to be done in the future. But being a patriotic kinda guy, knowing what a trade deficit is, and its effect on the US unemployment rate, I am trying to buy domestic - which seems to not include any 7x12's, just Taig and Sherline, then a huge gap jumping up to much much larger lathes.


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## gadget_lover (Apr 29, 2011)

Blindasabat said:


> I'll leave it to far more experienced people to confirm, but I have read that you need a spindle bore large enough for a long flashlight body to fit into to machine the end of it. You can't have more than 2 or 3 diameters sticking out of the chuck. The 9P/6P bodies are 1inch OD, so the bore would have to be over 1". If your chuck inner diameter is big enough you can at least sink the body in that deep.


 

More accurately, there should be only a few diameters unsupported. That means that you can use a center, a follower or a steady rest for large, long pieces. These are the same techniques you will find yourself using if you work on a 10 inch long 2 inch diameter piece on a large lathe with a 1.75 inch hole in the spindle.

Daniel


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## wquiles (Apr 29, 2011)

gadget_lover said:


> That means that you can use a center, a follower or a steady rest for large, long pieces. These are the same techniques you will find yourself using if you work on a 10 inch long 2 inch diameter piece on a large lathe with a 1.75 inch hole in the spindle.



+1

And to provide a "visual" on that, even in my 12x, you "still" need the support on long pieces, as shown here:







The "harder" thing to do is when you are doing internal operations (boring/threading/etc.) on long pieces. For these, the "ideal" is to have the piece inside the spindle/chuck as much as possible, as shown here:






An even then, you still might/should have some support on the "hanging/exposed" end, to minimize chatter as I show here:





















Will


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## precisionworks (Apr 29, 2011)

> I am trying to buy domestic - which seems to not include any 7x12's


The 7x12 is pretty much a Chinese invention. The American equivalent is a 9x36 or 10x40 South Bend. There are some 6" Atlas/Craftsman lathes, with 18" bed. http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas6inch/

If you buy a used South Bend, Atlas/Craftsman, Logan, Delta, etc. there's lots of tooling on eBay. These machines often sell for about the price of a new 7x12, but the quality is 10X better.

Lots of info on every type of lathe on Tony's site: http://www.lathes.co.uk/


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## PCC (Apr 29, 2011)

I have never used a Sherline lathe, but, I have used a Sherline mill. The one thing I absolutely hate about Sherline is the four-jaw chuck, which has jaws that are short and don't support your work well, which means that your work will slip unless you take light cuts. The hole in the middle of their chucks is either 5/8" or 3/4", which means that most work is going to be done between centers. In my opinion, the Sherline lathe is too small for anything larger than a 6P sized light and even then a 6P-sized light would be pushing it. The Sherline isn't that much smaller than a table-top 7X12 anyway.










The table is the same in both pictures.


----------



## Codiak (Apr 29, 2011)

I have also maintained there is no substitute for experience.

"Supporting" the stock is clearly something I've err'd on... or rather the lack of supporting it is the error.

I've been working 2inch Dia Alum 6061 in 6-8 inch sections on my mini-lathe.
I did have to upgrade to a 4inch chuck and recessing still isn't possible.
Since I normally start with the boring, the stock center seemed worthless so I don't use it
Now I'm going to have to reconsider my method and FIX them.

Some of the issues this has clearly caused:
More dig-in
More chatter
More re-centering with the Caliper
Parting creates a warped finish that requires facing.
Less then optimal finishes while thread and turning

I bet the only reason I go away with this is because it's a soft metal.

Chuck


----------



## HarryN (Apr 30, 2011)

If you can, find someone locally with a lathe, and figure out some way to learn from them / try out their lathe on a project you might be interested in. The learning curve in that first 5 weeks is very fast, and after 10 weeks, you will then be ready to actually buy the right tool, be it a lathe or mill, manual or cnc.


----------



## Robocop (Apr 30, 2011)

Well I thought it would be easy for me to look around a few shops however have found that is not the case thus far. Many I have seen around town are larger more industrial type shops. They seemed a little hesitant to allow me to poke around their work area and I can imagine it would be for insurance reasons if I were to get hurt or something. I actually do not blame them so I am still looking for a smaller type shop to visit.

Can anyone tell me about what TPI the threads are on something like the Arc AAA? I was hoping that I could experiment with smaller lights and wanted to make sure a Mini could handle that type of detailed work.


----------



## gadget_lover (Apr 30, 2011)

I have considered going to a shop and asking what the hourly rate is, then offering to buy an hour for tour + demos. Places to look include anything with fabricating, manufacturing, machining or 'precision engineering' in the name.

Re: Arc AAA. Yes you can do inside and outside threads easily on any small light. The challenge being to hold it firmly so it does not slip and yet not so tight that you crush it or scratch it. On some small lights with common, properly constructed threads, it's easier to use a tap and die.

From: Common Dimensions reference thread in # Flashlight Related Materials/Mechanical/Machining Discussion

Arc AAA

Mine's 32tpi.

OD threads of the male part; .444
ID threads of the female part .426

That's an arc AAA premium.

Daniel


----------



## will (May 1, 2011)

gadget_lover said:


> The challenge being to hold it firmly so it does not slip and yet not so tight that you crush it or scratch it.
> Daniel



I have re-threaded a lot of mini-mag cut downs that had an anodized finish. I use two layers of computer paper wrapped around the body where it fits into the chuck. Tape will also work.


----------



## onetrickpony (May 1, 2011)

I'm new to using lathes as well, but I found this site very helpful in understanding a lot of the specific terminology that comes along with these tools. I'm using a sherline mini lathe loaned from my father that's actually intended more for watch makers and such, but it works and it's a good (read: free!) starting point.

http://www.mini-lathe.com/

The author talks at great length about several fairly easy modifications and tuning procedures to make these mini-lathes much more accurate and consistent.

It can be a lot of fun, but remember to ALWAYS be very careful. Never, ever, ever leave a key in a chuck, don't wear loose clothing or leave long hair hanging, i.e. tie it up, and always wear eye protection. Don't start up the lathe until you've checked everything twice, it is very easy to become complacent, even if you're an old pro.

I may be new to lathes, but not to power tools, and I've witnessed friends losing fingers, shooting themselves with nail guns (multiple times) among other accidents. These were all (with one exception) people who were very well accustomed to using the tools that caused the injuries. BE CAREFUL!!!!


----------



## gadget_lover (May 1, 2011)

will said:


> I have re-threaded a lot of mini-mag cut downs that had an anodized finish. I use two layers of computer paper wrapped around the body where it fits into the chuck. Tape will also work.


 
I guess I should have qualified my statement, since the challenge is learning what is too much and what is too little. We all squeeze something a bit too hard when beginning, and are surprised when it crushes a tube that then goes askew. And more than once I have had a light spin int he chuck because I took a more aggressive cut than planned. I've not found a way to duplicate the groves that the jaws leave when it spins. At least then I could try to make it look intentional.

Daniel


----------



## Russel (May 2, 2011)

gadget_lover said:


> [...]People have done a lot of good work on the Taig and Sherline. They do not allow you to cut threads, so many flashlight processes will require you to buy taps and dies instead.[...]



While not the most ideal machine for cutting threads, Sherline lathes do have a thread cutting attachment.


----------



## gadget_lover (May 2, 2011)

Russel said:


> While not the most ideal machine for cutting threads, Sherline lathes do have a thread cutting attachment.


 
I should have known. A lathe without a way to cut threads is severely limited.

Daniel


----------



## Blindasabat (May 3, 2011)

> Threading...


That was a fear of mine with the Taig lathe too, but they now come with an optional power feed option. *<edit: It is NOT threading capable>* And I will have to get that to work with an oversized custom pulley because ...get this... I just won a custom built Taig headstock on eBay with a 1.3875 inch (35.24mm) spindle bore! That's huge for such a small lathe - you should see the picture of it, it looks crazy. Now I can have better workholding and work on long FL bodies in a tiny footprint, which is a requirement for me.

<edit: the regular Taig bore is 10mm, with 15mm optional from Factory (special order)>
<2nd edit: the stock Taig power feed is not threading capable without major modifications! It is not geared but rubber band driven.>


----------



## will (May 3, 2011)

gadget_lover said:


> ... more than once I have had a light spin int he chuck because I took a more aggressive cut than planned. I've not found a way to duplicate the groves that the jaws leave when it spins. At least then I could try to make it look intentional.
> 
> Daniel



I have spun my fair share in the chuck. The advantage of the paper is that it does not leave any marks on the work.


----------



## Name goes here (May 18, 2011)

Hi Robocop,

You're not that far from me.. I grew up in Birmingham and live in Huntsville now. As far as web forums go we're practically neighbors.

I have a new Big Dog Lathe Works 7 x 14 on order and plan to do a video review in a week or so when it gets here. I looked hard at the Micro Mark but the Big Dog has an integrated tach and comes with more accessories for less money. Stay tuned..


----------



## precisionworks (Sep 10, 2011)

Will Quiles just sent an email about this fully tooled 6" Atlas Craftsman in the DFW area. If someone bought it & parted it out they could get $1000. 

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/tls/2589902493.html

http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas6inch/


----------



## F250XLT (May 2, 2012)

*Harbor Freight Lathes, good starting point?*

I took a few machinist classes back in the day, and would love to get back into it again. Are any of the HF lathes any good? If so, what's the better choice 7x10, 7x12, 8x12, other?


----------



## wquiles (May 2, 2012)

*Re: Harbor Freight Lathes, good starting point?*



F250XLT said:


> I took a few machinist classes back in the day, and would love to get back into it again. Are any of the HF lathes any good? If so, what's the better choice 7x10, 7x12, 8x12, other?


Tim,

A 7x12, 7x14 is an excellent size lathe to get started as a hobby machinist and to be able to make your own small parts. Those Delrin retaining rings that I make in my "larger" 12x36 lathe are no problem to make on a "small" lathe like the 7x series.

Pretty much all of those lathes come from the same casting/foundry, so the difference if often how well equipped they are, in terms of accessories. I would try to find an used one in Craigs list close to you before trying to buy a new one, as it is very unlikely a small 7x has had a "hard" life. True, you need more work on an used lathe to bring it up to speed, but if you don't quite have the budged for a new one, the used ones will probably work just fine.

Just keep in mind that the lathe is the cheap part of the machining hobby. Tooling is really the area that will get expensive quickly, and where most of your budget will be used 

Will


----------



## gadget_lover (May 2, 2012)

*Re: Harbor Freight Lathes, good starting point?*

I agree with Will, though the real answer is "It depends."

I have a 7x12 and 9x20, both from harbor freight. They have both done what I have wanted. I'm glad I bought them.

If you will be doing big things that demand extreme accuracy, then you want a much bigger lathe, simply because it has more mass and more room. That extra room comes in handy when you are adding DRO's, using long boring bars or trying to power tap.

If you just want to experiment with some flashlight work, the 7x12 will do a lot and is somewhat forgiving. It will not throw a 10 pound hunk of steel across the room like a bigger one will. The 9x20 has some advantages ( like a QCGB) , but I find the 7x12 is sometimes easier to use anyway. A bigger lathe with a full quick change gear box is a desirable luxury, but it is a luxury that you can live without.

The biggest advantage of the small ones is that if you find you really don't like machining they are easy to sell since they fit in the trunk of a compact car. OTOH, if you get the bug and want to move up, the little one can supplement the big one or sell pretty easy.

Daniel


----------



## precisionworks (May 3, 2012)

*Re: Harbor Freight Lathes, good starting point?*



> It will not throw a 10 pound hunk of steel across the room ...


 A 30# hunk is much more fun :nana:


----------



## F250XLT (May 3, 2012)

*Re: Harbor Freight Lathes, good starting point?*

Thank you for the input guys, I really do appreciate it. Perhaps I'll look into the 7x12, it would be fun to experiment on. 

Any suggestions as to what a good starter tooling set would be?


----------



## wquiles (May 3, 2012)

*Re: Harbor Freight Lathes, good starting point?*



F250XLT said:


> Thank you for the input guys, I really do appreciate it. Perhaps I'll look into the 7x12, it would be fun to experiment on.
> 
> Any suggestions as to what a good starter tooling set would be?


Tim,

Your best bet to get something good is to look at the stuff/kits from the Little Machine Shop:
http://littlemachineshop.com/


You can star with their "Getting started with mini-lathe tooling page":
http://littlemachineshop.com/Info/getting_started.php?Chapter=GS_MiniLathe_01.htm&d=0|1|2


Will


----------



## precisionworks (May 3, 2012)

*Re: Harbor Freight Lathes, good starting point?*

Another good kit: http://latheinserts.com/product.sc?productId=39&categoryId=82

And a matching parting tool: http://latheinserts.com/product.sc?productId=46&categoryId=82

These are very nice (I have a few), American made & inexpensive: http://www.mesatool.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

And a really good place to find odds & ends at fire sale prices (plus he will deal if you call him on the phone): http://shop.yourtoolingstore.com/


----------



## F250XLT (May 3, 2012)

*Re: Harbor Freight Lathes, good starting point?*

Great links guys, thank you.


----------



## Norcimbus (May 3, 2012)

*Re: Harbor Freight Lathes, good starting point?*

I must chime in with my $0.02, not to stir the pot but to give me experience so far with lathes (warning: this turned into a really long post). 

I started out with a little 7x12 "mini-lathe", and while it was great for getting to know basic principles of lathe operation, I was never able to achieve a nice finish on anything but aluminum or brass. Also, the capacity of the chucks for those lathes was quite limiting for me, even for some flashlight work.

My second and current lathe is a 1944 9" South Bend Model C (no power feeds just leadscrew for threading, and change gears instead of quick change gear box). While there are differences of opinion about used older US-made lathes (they're not very useful if worn out or missing many parts), I found that this lathe does everything I need it to, and while it is considered ultra-light by the pros, the increase in rigidity and capacity was immediately noticeable. There is no substitute for rigidity and power, especially when machining titanium or stainless (although it helps with any material). I found mine on Craigslist for ~$300, rusty but complete, and once cleaned up I now have a solid smooth machine. I will list my setup below to give you an idea of the changes/improvements I've made and tooling I've acquired. 

I'm far from the most experienced here, but I thought I would give you my opinion based on my experiences. I'm not saying an import lathe is a bad choice, however a taiwanese lathe is of dramatically better quality than most Chinese lathes (not all new imports are created equal). If you are willing to put in some TLC, and don't have money for a new German Emco or other such high-end small lathe, I believe used good-condition US lathes are still the best way to go for hobby machining. Also, if you ever decide to start looking for a used lathe, I'll be happy to share what I know about what to check to ensure good working condition of the lathe (ways, spindle bearings, drive, tapers, etc.). 

My setup:

-1944 South Bend 9" Model C (~$300)
-1.5hp 3-phase motor upgrade with variable frequency drive for infinite speed adjust (~$160)
-Phase II wedge-type quick change tool post (you NEED one of these types of toolposts IMHO) (~$150)
-Tooling: boring bars, turning/facing holders/threading toolholders/grooving tools/parting blade mine are all carbide insert, if you use the correct inserts they are extremely useful on manual low-speed (~1100 rpm max) equipment (~$ I don't want to know)
-4-jaw chuck, 3-jaw chuck, homemade ER32 and ER40 collet chucks, Drill chuck, live center (most of this came with the lathe or I made it)
-Dial test indicator and magnetic base for indicating in work in 4-jaw and checking lathe setup (~$175) buy good quality for both (Bestest, Interapid, Compac) Noga Base
-Lots of other stuff, but these are the basics. Like others said, the real cost is the tooling and accesories, but the lathe is the heart of the operation, and nice tooling can't fix a low-rigidity lathe. 

*/ off soapbox /*


----------



## Kestrel (May 3, 2012)

*Re: Harbor Freight Lathes, good starting point?*

F250XLT, I have merged your thread with a prior thread on the same topic; an excellent overview IMO.


----------



## F250XLT (May 3, 2012)

*Re: Harbor Freight Lathes, good starting point?*

Norcimbus, thank you for your insight...it is much appreciated.





Kestrel said:


> F250XLT, I have merged your thread with a prior thread on the same topic; an excellent overview IMO.




Thank you


----------



## KrameE (Mar 22, 2014)

*Lathe Recommendations?*

Hey all!

 I've been given permission to *ahem* look at metal lathes. If the primary purpose of this lathe is to make dive lights, what size would you recommend? I don't think I'd make anything longer than a light that uses 2x18650's and anything wider than 3x18650's side by side. Would a 7x10 work? Or 7x12?

Thanks!

(This was cross posted in the Dive Lighting section)


----------



## wquiles (Mar 23, 2014)

*Re: Lathe Recommendations?*



KrameE said:


> Hey all!
> 
> I've been given permission to *ahem* look at metal lathes. If the primary purpose of this lathe is to make dive lights, what size would you recommend? I don't think I'd make anything longer than a light that uses 2x18650's and anything wider than 3x18650's side by side. Would a 7x10 work? Or 7x12?
> 
> ...



It depends on the diameter and length (work envelope) that you need, but without knowing anything else, I would recommend at least an 8x, if not a 9x or 10x. A lathe in that size should be pretty good for making dive lights.

"MY" preference would be to get at least a 12x - a lot more rigid, and allows for larger diameter and for "stuff" to fit through the chuck (assuming at least an 6" or 8" diameter chuck).


----------



## precisionworks (Mar 23, 2014)

*Re: Lathe Recommendations?*



> get at least a 12x - a lot more rigid, and allows for larger diameter and for "stuff" to fit through the chuck



That's the long & short of it. A 2" hole through the chuck allows machining a finished light in a Delrin sleeve (1/2" wall thickness). A 1" hole is really limiting & anything less than 1" makes everything but small parts a long, frustrating job. 

That said, I have no doubt that every part of the International Space Station could be machined on a 7" machine. It would take 1000X longer but it could be done. If you have lots of time. Combined with endless patience.


----------



## BVH (Mar 23, 2014)

*Re: Lathe Recommendations?*

From a relative newbe to hobbiest machining, i followed the two above posters advice and bought a 12" and am glad i did. It was a little intimidating at first but now i'd never go smaller.


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## KrameE (Mar 23, 2014)

*Re: Lathe Recommendations?*

Thank you so much for your advice. 

I measured three 18650 cells in a 3 group pattern, and it came out to a generous 1.5" diameter circle. So, add some insulation and maybe a 1/4" thick aluminum wall that give me maybe a 2" diameter. 

Why wouldn't a 7x lathe suffice?


----------



## precisionworks (Mar 23, 2014)

*Re: Lathe Recommendations?*



KrameE said:


> Why wouldn't a 7x lathe suffice?



Lathes are sized (or described) by diameter of part & length of part they will accept. A much better way to look for a lathe is by the diameter of the hole through the chuck or the spindle bore. For a 2" diameter part to go into the chuck, through the chuck & into the spindle bore requires a machine that swings 12/14/16 or something close to that. My 14" machine has only a 1.875" spindle bore & that means nothing much larger than 1.750" goes through the spindle. 

A 7x machine is fine for smaller parts. It will drive you nuts on 2" diameter parts, guaranteed. My 14" machine is maxed out on 2" parts & nothing but money keeps an 18" or 20" machine out of the shop. Money & my wife.


----------



## Kestrel (Mar 24, 2014)

*Re: Lathe Recommendations?*



KrameE said:


> Hey all!
> 
> I've been given permission to *ahem* look at metal lathes. If the primary purpose of this lathe is to make dive lights, what size would you recommend? I don't think I'd make anything longer than a light that uses 2x18650's and anything wider than 3x18650's side by side. Would a 7x10 work? Or 7x12?
> 
> ...


Hello KrameE,
I have merged your thread with a prior (very good) thread on this topic. Hope this helps,


----------



## gadget_lover (Mar 24, 2014)

*Re: Lathe Recommendations?*



KrameE said:


> Thank you so much for your advice.
> 
> I measured three 18650 cells in a 3 group pattern, and it came out to a generous 1.5" diameter circle. So, add some insulation and maybe a 1/4" thick aluminum wall that give me maybe a 2" diameter.
> 
> Why wouldn't a 7x lathe suffice?



The standard response is that the further you get from the chuck, the more flex there is in the work and the lathe bed. This leads to a condition known as "chatter" which leaves marks on the piece you are turning. The flex also limits how deeply you can cut in one pass. Both of these things can be overcome using the proper techniques. They are the same techniques used when a cruise ship propeller shaft is turned. 

The EASIEST way to overcome chatter is to use a lathe big enough that the chuck has a huge hole in the center for your work piece to fit into. Then you can move the piece in and out to work on various details while staying near the chuck. This calls for a huge lathe (tons) with a huge chuck (hundred pounds or more). The stock 7x12 lathe chuck is about 10 lbs and has a center hole about 3/4 inches. The lathe's spindle has a hole through the length that is also about 3/4 inch, so you could stick a 3 foot long 3/4 inch rod through the headstock and work on one end.

I only have two lathes, a 7x12 and a 9x20. I don't hesitate to work with 2 inch diameter pieces on either one. The 9x20 can take deeper cuts (bigger bites) so I can more quickly reduce a 2.25 inch tube to a 2.010 inch tube. My time is my own, so it does not matter much if it takes me 5 minutes or 15. 

Easy to do on a 7x12 lathe;
1) Turning a 2 inch diameter x 8 inch long tube or rod.
2) External threading on the same 2x8 piece.
3) Finning on the same 2x8 piece.
4) Interior boring on a 2x4 piece.
5) Interior threading on a 2x4 piece.
6) Knurling up to 8, maybe 10 inches long.

Doing internal work on a longer, large diameter piece is more of a challenge, but can be accomplished. That's because you have to add supports (commonly available accessories) to keep the end furthest from the chuck from wobbling/vibrating. This is the same technique that you have to use when you have a 12 inch lathe and need to work on a 4 inch diameter axle. 

Daniel


----------



## precisionworks (Mar 25, 2014)

*Re: Lathe Recommendations?*

I can't remember who first said "Go large or go home" but that describes part of what I do in my one-person shop. Here's a drill table being lifted just enough to slide out the shaft that controls tilt. Table is 800#, maybe 300# in the tilt top & 500# in the base:







The small bridge crane was constructed because of this particular job & that job paid for the cost of all materials. The main gear was worn down so far it barely contacted the pinion gear used to drive the table top so I ordered a new one. The gear was bored slightly over shaft diameter & it's as large a part as my lathe will swing - image shows 14" faceplate & 13.5" gear:






Larger machines make everything easier.


----------



## KrameE (Mar 25, 2014)

*Re: Lathe Recommendations?*



gadget_lover said:


> Easy to do on a 7x12 lathe;
> 1) Turning a 2 inch diameter x 8 inch long tube or rod.
> 2) External threading on the same 2x8 piece.
> 3) Finning on the same 2x8 piece.
> ...



Thank you very much for the insight.

Going larger is not an option for a variety of reasons and I appreciate you giving me specific task limitations and not just telling me to get a bigger lathe. If I could, I would.

You said that it would be practical to bore out a 4" piece of stock. Is that due to the issues of rigidity or is that just mechanical limitation? Could I chuck up a 6" long stock, bore 4" into one end, flip it around and complete the boring on the other side? Or is that a big no no?

Is the ability of a lathe to bore a linear constant? If a 7x12 can bore out a 4" long stock, can a 7x14 bore out a 6" long stock, and so on a so forth? 

Again, thank you!


----------



## gadget_lover (Mar 25, 2014)

*Re: Lathe Recommendations?*



KrameE said:


> You said that it would be practical to bore out a 4" piece of stock. Is that due to the issues of rigidity or is that just mechanical limitation? Could I chuck up a 6" long stock, bore 4" into one end, flip it around and complete the boring on the other side? Or is that a big no no?
> 
> Is the ability of a lathe to bore a linear constant? If a 7x12 can bore out a 4" long stock, can a 7x14 bore out a 6" long stock, and so on a so forth?



The limitations in length are dictated by the technique used. It's also determined by the diameter of the boring bar. Boring is typically done by mounting a boring bar on the tool post and then moving the carriage left and right to move in the full length of the inside of the piece. To bore 4 inches deep you add up all the lengths involved...

Chuck= 2 1/2 inch wide
Work = 4 inch wide 
Boring bar = 4 inches long. 

This means that the total travel of the carriage is a bit over 4 inches, starting 6 and a half inches from the headstock. That's most of the area that a 7x12 carriage can move. It follows that the carriage on a 7x14 SHOULD move 2 inches further, and a 9x20 SHOULD move 8 inches further than the 7x12. Each lathe design has different features that limit carriage travel. I get an extra inch of travel on my 7x12 if I remove the threading dial (1 screw).

Technically, one can bore 4 inches, stop, extend the boring bar in the holder a bit more and run a second pass at the same diameter. This is a hassle and can result in crashes (stuck tool pulling the stock out of the chuck) if it's not done right. 

There is a formula for how deep you can bore and it's based on the size of the boring bar and the material it's made of. The depth should be no more than 4 times the diameter for steel boring bars, and no more than 8 times for solid carbide. Your 4 inch deep bore will use a 1/2 inch carbide bar, or a 1 inch steel bar.

Lastly... The reason that I broke down the "easy to do" chart into shorter and longer pieces is that the external operations can be done when the piece is supported on both ends and your tool will reach the full surface if the work by moving the carriage. Internal operations require that you support the work if it's more than two diameters long, and need to have room for the tool subtracted from the carriage's travel.

Barry's post brings another aspect to mind. The work piece is also limited by the need to pass over the carriage. The 7x12 lathe only has room for about a 4 inch piece to extend over the saddle. A 9x20 can pass a 5 inch piece over the saddle. A 6 inch disk can be worked on since the tool can reach the surfaces without having to move the carriage under it. 

Daniel


----------



## KrameE (Mar 25, 2014)

Again, thank you so much. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## precisionworks (Mar 26, 2014)

> Your 4 inch deep bore will use a 1/2 inch carbide bar, or a 1 inch steel bar.


Those are what you'll need ... but ...

A 1/2" solid carbide insert bar is $200 + inserts + toolholder. A 1" steel bar is about the same price, less if you find one on eBay. 

Plus a Tool Post

Plus the other bits & pieces you'll need (center drill, twist drill, 1/2" drill chuck) etc.

The only reason for mentioning this is that tooling will quickly equal the price of the lathe + more.

----------------------------

The 1/2" carbide bar is my #1 tool for flashlight boring. It will slip into a hole as small as .625" & allows taking the bore out to whatever is needed (around .750" more or less). The UltraDex.com website has some nice specials running right now on a couple of smaller inserted bars.


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## KrameE (Mar 26, 2014)

Looks like buying a couple $20 heatsinks isn't that bad after all! Thank you all for the help!


----------



## LED_astray (Mar 26, 2014)

precisionworks said:


> ... The UltraDex.com website has some nice specials running right now on a couple of smaller inserted bars.



Thanks for the tip.

PS- For anyone else bargin shopping, the URL should be UltraDex *USA* (I don't read German, but just UltraDex looks like office partitions.)


----------



## BVH (Mar 26, 2014)

Again, with good advice from the experts here, I bought the Ultradex solid carbide insert bars in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2". They're invaluable.


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## precisionworks (Mar 27, 2014)

BVH said:


> ... I bought the Ultradex solid carbide insert bars in 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2". They're invaluable.


Totally agree. My 1/2" bar is a workhorse & does a surprisingly nice job on Ti-6-4 using a high positive aluminum specific insert. Bar is set at the correct projection for boring a SWM V10R Ti. Finish on titanium is really nice, insert has decent life if DOC is kept shallow to reduce tip temperature.











Those curls don't break & they are sharper than a new razor blade. Titanium cuts on hands & fingers take a while to heal up.


----------



## BVH (Mar 27, 2014)

Barry, what is the brass-colored piece of metal in-between the boring bar shank and the tool holder set screw and why are you using it?


----------



## wquiles (Mar 27, 2014)

I suspect Barry would say something like this:
"Normally the bar is fully supported in one side (bottom) and has just 3 or 4 screws on the opposite side, so the bar is not fully supported. Not only that, but the screws apply an un-even force on the bar. The brass spacer distributes the force of the screws, and gives the bar a more solid, even engagement, and prevents marking/marring/scratching the boring bar."

But that is just an educated guess at best :devil:


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## precisionworks (Mar 28, 2014)

Will hit the nail on the head ...

The solid carbide bar is glass hard and the softer Allen set screws will not bite into it. The "half hard" brass spacer provides a mechanical transition. Overkill probably but that is no surprise


----------



## BVH (Mar 28, 2014)

Thanks Barry.


----------



## LED_astray (Mar 28, 2014)

I'd bet it'd be even better if we could find those 5C collet chuck tool holders WQuiles has for sale somewhere for stupid cheap!


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## precisionworks (Mar 29, 2014)

I believe they came from http://www.tools4cheap.net/


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## darkzero (Mar 29, 2014)

LED_astray said:


> I'd bet it'd be even better if we could find those 5C collet chuck tool holders that WQuiles has for sale somewhere for stupid cheap!



Ebay would be your best bet but rarely for dirt cheap. They are made by Aloris & Dorian. As far as I'm aware there are no asian import copies of them (yet), same goes for the oversized tool holders.


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## LED_astray (Mar 29, 2014)

darkzero said:


> Ebay would be your best bet but rarely for dirt cheap. They are made by Aloris & Dorian. As far as I'm aware there are no asian import copies of them (yet), same goes for the oversized tool holders.



What I need is to develop my skills with what I've got. Those I just want, they look easier to use and dead solid. I check Ebay every so often, but as you say they're made by Aloris & Dorian and everyone seems to understand the going rate. I've saved the tools4cheap link, they're much cheaper than MSC, so I'm ready to do something quickly if I ever stop window shopping.


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## 340wedge (Jun 26, 2014)

This won't really be following the current posts on this thread but might help some looking to get a lathe. I really enjoy the small lathes for being able to do work in a small place with not much noise to worry about. I currently am using a sherline and while the size is a huge limit along with at least about a dozen other things it can get the job done like any other machine if you spend the time modifying to make it work.

Two big things I have learned. First(this was against what I was taught) buy the cheapest tools and parts you can if you are unsure of the purpose and or outcome. Only after you have the understanding of how it works should you spend the coin on buying the high end stuff. Second don't focus one single thing if you have an issue, more than likely it's several things going on that is causing issues and don't cancel out anything when troubleshooting.

As for recommending a mini lathe, I'd go with a wabeco.

Also do not be scared of small cnc lathes. They do cost more but with some time they really aren't that hard to figure out. You don't have to know how to draw in solid works or any cad program to run one and design fun stuff.


Happy chip making all.


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