# SureFire EDC1-DFT and EDC2-DFT



## Dave D (Jan 19, 2022)

Seen at the 2022 Shot Show are the new Surefire EDC1-DFT and the EDC2-DFT.

Dual Fuel Technology comes to the Surefire E series lights!

From Surefire's website.

_SureFire EDC1-DFT and EDC2-DFT flashlights deliver intense beams designed explicitly for long-distance illumination in a remarkably compact form factor, giving you all the power in a small yet rugged package. Thanks to our flexible Dual Fuel feature, the EDC1-DFT generates 71,000 blinding candela when powered by its included SF18350 rechargeable lithium-ion battery, or you can swap in a single 123A lithium primary battery and 33,000 candela from a single 123A primary battery. The larger EDC2-DFT delivers 71,000 candela and more runtime when powered by its included SF18650 rechargeable battery or two 123A primary batteries.

These mini lighthouses provide the farthest-reaching beams of any SureFire EDC handhelds, plus ample spill light so you can keep track of your surroundings. You can also switch to a low-output setting to handle administrative tasks. A sturdy, two-way clip also offers the added flexibility of bezel-up or bevel-down carry. As a result, the EDC1-DFT and EDC2-DFT deliver SureFire quality, performance, and dependability in an everyday carry flashlight that helps you see farther into the unknown.











Photos courtesy of Recoilweb.com_


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jan 19, 2022)

So they finally got into the osram game, nice.


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## WarriorOfLight (Jan 19, 2022)

Very nice, a 1xCR123 or 2xCR123 flashlight that is Liion capable


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## kerneldrop (Jan 19, 2022)

And their marketing team even went with "EVERYDAY CARRY"
Hey - whatever sales so they can have the funds to innovate.
I'll end up with both because I'm a sucker for the "low-output for administrative tasks" and I'll support Merica. 

I wanted to bore an Elzetta Alpha to accept 18350 --even though the beams will be different -- the EDC1-DFT might just do instead.


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## s85sss (Jan 19, 2022)

an EDCL1-T with a shorter tailcap and rechargeable batteries...even though the head seems a little bit longer, it looks nice


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## Daniel_sk (Jan 19, 2022)

_EDC2-DFT - _instant buy for me when it becomes available_._


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## thermal guy (Jan 19, 2022)

71,000! That sucker will throw.


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## WDR65 (Jan 19, 2022)

I look forward to trying them both out. Surefire has always had some of the throwers that still had spill out of any brand I’ve owned. Today I stuck an EDCL-1t in my vest pocket when going duck hunting as my spotlight for things my flood ZL headlamp couldn’t quite reach.


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## tango44 (Jan 19, 2022)

No low mode on these????


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## Olumin (Jan 19, 2022)

tango44 said:


> No low mode on these????


Thats what I thought. DFT = Duel Fuel Tactical. Means single mode only. The "gas-pedal" tailcap on the EDC1&2 are the highlight IMO. Trading that just for li-ion compatibility? No deal.


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## tango44 (Jan 19, 2022)

Won't be cheap for sure...


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## michaex (Jan 19, 2022)

What's really nice is the HA next to the model number. If this is legit


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## kerneldrop (Jan 19, 2022)

Olumin said:


> Thats what I thought. DFT = Duel Fuel Tactical. Means single mode only. The "gas-pedal" tailcap on the EDC1&2 are the highlight IMO. Trading that just for li-ion compatibility? No deal.



The description says there's a low mode for doing administrative tasks.
"_You can also switch to a low-output setting to handle administrative tasks."_

I know we're all hard-user operators requiring battle proof lights for survival.... but administrative tasks lights with a high are right up my alley.
I really see a version of myself in every one of their product photos on the site below





Turbo | SureFire







www.surefire.com


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## Olumin (Jan 19, 2022)

kerneldrop said:


> The description says there's a low mode for doing administrative tasks.
> "_You can also switch to a low-output setting to handle administrative tasks."_
> 
> Surefire website says EDCL1-T Low is 500 Lumens high and 5 lumens low with 123A.
> ...


I guess I just skimmed over the text. The way its worded makes me concerned its not the Dual-stage tailcap tho, since you wouldn't be "switching" to low mode. Thats kinda the whole trick with these lights for me. Many others have TRI & compact throwers, but not the gas-pedal switch.


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## kerneldrop (Jan 19, 2022)

Olumin said:


> I guess I just skimmed over the text. The way its worded makes me concerned its not the Dual-stage tailcap tho, since you wouldn't be "switching" to low mode. Thats kinda the whole trick with these lights for me. Many others have TRI & compact throwers, but not the gas-pedal switch.



That product manual was to another light. But the website still shows this new light having a low... I'm not sure how you switch though.


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## Xrunner (Jan 19, 2022)

Looking forward to these, especially the EDC2-DFT.


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## Olumin (Jan 19, 2022)

The "commander" is new as well. 2x 21700 in parallel, LEP&MaxVision combo. Form faction isnt really my thing but im glad the cells seem to be replaceable & not built in. 

Just makes me wish for a proper duty 2x21700 (in series) light with dual-output + strobe and on-board magnetic/cradle charging. 50-150/2500lm TIR. No dual switch nonsense just a simple "loosen tailcap for low, rotate head for strobe" or something.


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## michaex (Jan 19, 2022)

2022 Catalog is up with more details: Link

25 lumen low on both.

Gee they are ugly


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## thermal guy (Jan 19, 2022)

That commander! A lep and led light. Now that’s a great idea!


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## Daniel_sk (Jan 20, 2022)

The Commander looks really interesting. But there isn't even a product photo of it - this could be one of those typical SF catalog products that are never really released. I don't think we will see it in next few months.


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## s85sss (Jan 20, 2022)

the EDC1-DFT is actually longer than the EDCL1-T 😕


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## desert.snake (Jan 20, 2022)

Very cool update, it looks like the mode selection here is by turning the head like on Tactician?

By the way, this interests me more, is 2 * 21700 removable and LEP ??


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## WarriorOfLight (Jan 20, 2022)

At least in the catalog it is described that the 21700 cells may be charged using USB-C or removed (and than charged in a charger). Therefore I guess - and hope - the 21700 cells are normal 21700 cells no special stuff like Olight is doing.


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## desert.snake (Jan 20, 2022)

Most likely ordinary, only with additional inscriptions, the only question is whether they are installed in parallel or in series.


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## WarriorOfLight (Jan 20, 2022)

My guess is it is installed in parallel, since it can be loaded with USB-C. It is than like a big battery. If you are charging in series you should also include a balancer circuit in the design....


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## bykfixer (Jan 20, 2022)

Thanks for the info DaveD.


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## Dave D (Jan 20, 2022)

Daniel_sk said:


> The Commander looks really interesting. But there isn't even a product photo of it - this could be one of those typical SF catalog products that are never really released. I don't think we will see it in next few months.


My thoughts exactly! A bit like the Lawman R2 that they had working prototypes of at Shot Show 2014, appeared in the catalogue but never made it to production.


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## Dave D (Jan 22, 2022)

Video below from Shot Show 2022 showing some of Surefire's new products.


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## Jim Bonney (Jan 22, 2022)

These look really cool. I dig Surefires, especially the gas-pedal tailcap types but gave up on them for edc because I personally just don’t find them pocketable for my lifestyle. I’ve broken many clips via seatbelt and had them fall out of my pockets a lot. It’s a bummer because these two check every other box and look like fantastic lights.


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## bykfixer (Jan 22, 2022)

If I didn't know better I'd think PK was back at SureFire.


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## thermal guy (Jan 22, 2022)

HA anodizing? What’s that. And from SF!


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## Megalamuffin (Jan 22, 2022)

Cool stuff for this year.


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## newbie66 (Jan 23, 2022)

I think the tailcap is a clicky. If you look closely at the pics, the tailcap is screwed all the way down without room for tightening. The EDCL1-T/EDCL2-T however in comparison has ample space to twist/tighten. Unless of course they have a new version of the gas pedal switch.


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## RWT1405 (Jan 23, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> If I didn't know better I'd think PK was back at SureFire.



We can only DREAM.................


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## coffeeandlifting (Jan 23, 2022)

I'm dreaming that these will be gas-pedal, but I'm afraid it seems more likely that they will be clicky. If there's no gas pedal I will stick to my edcl1-t and LFP123 pairing as a rechargable EDC arrangement.


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## bykfixer (Jan 24, 2022)

I may be wrong but think I read the hi/lo switch is up front.


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## knucklegary (Jan 24, 2022)

Photos do look like in-between body and head hi/low section..

I'm sure liking the HA option!


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## thermal guy (Jan 24, 2022)

I haven’t bought a new SF in like a decade. But think it’s about time for one. Did they say it can take a 18350 Or did I hear wrong?


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## Megalamuffin (Jan 24, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> I may be wrong but think I read the hi/lo switch is up front.



Hi/lo on the head should be on more SF’s.


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## Petersen (Feb 10, 2022)

Here's the catalog sheets


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## desert.snake (Feb 10, 2022)

Very nice, it is possible that it is still like a gas pedal, I hope so


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## thermal guy (Feb 10, 2022)

I’m really liking this one. And I haven’t said that about SF in a. Decade


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## FridgeRaider93 (Feb 10, 2022)

desert.snake said:


> Very nice, it is possible that it is still like a gas pedal, I hope so
> View attachment 23831


Only on the two cell? The one cell says clicky... Interesting.


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## hamhanded (Feb 10, 2022)

desert.snake said:


> Very nice, it is possible that it is still like a gas pedal, I hope so
> View attachment 23831


Doubtful, there are other surefires that say that but they are actually momentary mode switching


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## loydski29 (Feb 10, 2022)

When are these supposed to be available?


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## newbie66 (Feb 11, 2022)

loydski29 said:


> When are these supposed to be available?


Supposedly a trickle in February and by mid March everything should be on shelves.


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## bykfixer (Feb 14, 2022)

Theoretical question: 
How would member take to a version called "DFT-R"? R being rechargeable while a battery is still in the light or option of primary/18650/18350?(depending on one or two cell body).


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## desert.snake (Feb 14, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> Theoretical question:
> How would member take to a version called "DFT-R"? R being rechargeable while a battery is still in the light or option of primary/18650/18350?(depending on one or two cell body).


Charging - additional element that can fail and extra money, only if it will be a really big flashlight with 4~16 x 18650 (or 21700) and this charge will give an more speed in compared to charging cells in a separate charger. If a flashlight is meant 1 x 18650, then it definitely should be a universally available usb, and what else to do with such a situation if a person puts 2 x CR123 or 2 x 18350 there and connects it to a charger? Then it should be smart charging, and this is extra money in price.

Personally, I would prefer such a charging port with mechanical protection, they are reliable.




And, accordingly, 12 volts, so that you can recharge from a car battery or use BA5590 batteries


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## bykfixer (Feb 14, 2022)

Sounds like you're not completely against the idea DS. 

Me, personally I like the notion of a pair of primary's and twisty operation for failure resistance, but afterall it is 2022 and rechargeable is here to stay. 
My initial thought was a way to lock the tailcap covering a usb port and unlock to expose it. Keeping the hi/lo operation up front and utilizing a machined channel lock on the rear that incorparates the resistance of the rear spring against the battery to keep it fastened. Pushing it forward and twisting to unlock it. O'ring placement could be critical to keep it water tight. 

Now yes, that could fail in time but…with the option of a rechargeable cell (outside the body) or primary it only eliminates one of three options to supply electricity. But it adds the option of recharge using a pocket size power pack while on the go in the field.


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## desert.snake (Feb 14, 2022)

I roughly understand, but better draw at least with a pencil, I didn't really understand what goes where))

Could use a screw head to open the port, like on Fenix keychan micro flashlights

Well, the ability to use any of the caps - clicking or two-stage (the latter with a fully tightened head)






Just a very long skirt at the head that covers it all, like Prometheus Alpha, he has an unnecessarily long skirt


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## thermal guy (Feb 14, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> Theoretical question:
> How would member take to a version called "DFT-R"? R being rechargeable while a battery is still in the light or option of primary/18650/18350?(depending on one or two cell body).


As long as it’s still waterproof that would work for me.


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## bykfixer (Feb 14, 2022)

I have a Coast light that uses a 3x aaa battery carrier, or an 18650 in a cartridge with usb port or an external (water tight) usb port to supply fuel to the light.

Since Streamlight and Elzetta sell batteries with usb ports that could add yet another refueling option if the 1 cell can handle an RCR and 2 cell an 18650. So even without an external port one can potentially charge batteries in the field via pocket size power pack.

I think that's what I'm getting at. An option to recharge in the field with primary fuel supplied until the rechargeable is back up and running.


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## desert.snake (Feb 14, 2022)

Connect all the batteries so that you get an analogue of Heron's fountain, only from batteries?


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## Olumin (Feb 14, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> Theoretical question:
> How would member take to a version called "DFT-R"? R being rechargeable while a battery is still in the light or option of primary/18650/18350?(depending on one or two cell body).


Depends entirely on the execution. If done via an exposed port (like the R1) or rubber flap (like most others) im out. Best solution & mechanical the lest complex would be a simple magnetic charger. Advantages being no mechanism required to seal the charging port + completely waterproof. Also less fiddly. 

I would love to see something like that on a 2x18650 or 2x21700 light (or even larger), not required for smaller single cell lights. Also add an option for cradle charging. But I seriously doubt that SF would use standard cells for such a light & would probably go with a proprietary battery pack. Complete deal breaker.


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## knucklegary (Feb 14, 2022)

desert.snake said:


> Connect all the batteries so that you get an analogue of Heron's fountain, only from batteries?
> 
> View attachment 24026


I felt a little like a human Heron's Fountain during my last colonoscopy..

I'll save you all from diagrams (-;


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## Dave D (Feb 15, 2022)

This is going off topic somewhat, please don't fill the thread with pages of irrelevant info.

Thanks


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## bykfixer (Feb 15, 2022)

Oops, sorry about that Dave……
Was just trying to pass the time while waiting for these to arrive on store shelves. 

It's good to see SureFire offering something the flashlight enthusiast(s) got excited about this year.


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## knucklegary (Feb 15, 2022)

Agreed just having some funny exchange.. We're all hoping SF comes through with a winner in '22


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## kerneldrop (Feb 15, 2022)

At least the tint debate is now over as obviously cool is vastly superior in all extensive testing Surefire has done.
Warm has it's place too...I can't think of any but I want to be inclusive. 😆


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## Dave D (Feb 15, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> Oops, sorry about that Dave……
> Was just trying to pass the time while waiting for these to arrive on store shelves.
> 
> It's good to see SureFire offering something the flashlight enthusiast(s) got excited about this year.


No problem, I just had visions of folk pulling up this thread later, when the flashlights hit the stores, and getting confused.


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## loydski29 (Feb 24, 2022)

Looks like surefire removed the new EDC-DFT lights from the catalog I don’t see them anymore. WTH


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## michaex (Feb 24, 2022)

Page 34?


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## dk21291 (Feb 24, 2022)

Daniel_sk said:


> The Commander looks really interesting. But there isn't even a product photo of it - this could be one of those typical SF catalog products that are never really released. I don't think we will see it in next few months.


Perhaps, seems like the commander and these EDC-DFT lights are no longer in the catalog listed on their website


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## Dave D (Feb 25, 2022)

dk21291 said:


> Perhaps, seems like the commander and these EDC-DFT lights are no longer in the catalog listed on their websiteGo to Surefire's website at the bottom of their home page is a link to their Catalogs


Go to the Surefire home page, at the bottom of the page is a link to their Catalogs, the 2022 catalog clearly shows both EDC-DFT lights still listed on page 32, the New Commander is still shown on page 38.


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## loydski29 (Feb 25, 2022)

Dave D said:


> Go to the Surefire home page, at the bottom of the page is a link to their Catalogs, the 2022 catalog clearly shows both EDC-DFT lights still listed on page 32, the New Commander is still shown on page 38.


When I go to it it’s a different catalog than before and they are not pictured anymore. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Dave D (Feb 25, 2022)

loydski29 said:


> When I go to it it’s a different catalog than before and they are not pictured anymore. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Surefire Catalogs, it's working correctly for me and their 2022 catalog still has them shown.

Page 32.


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## loydski29 (Feb 25, 2022)

Dave D said:


> Surefire Catalogs, it's working correctly for me and their 2022 catalog still has them shown.
> 
> Page 32.
> View attachment 24385


I guess your special


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## desert.snake (Feb 25, 2022)

I still have them showing up. I hope they release them in spring.


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## loydski29 (Feb 25, 2022)

desert.snake said:


> I still have them showing up. I hope they release them in spring.



Its weird I look at the catalog from my phone and they are not there but from my computer they are on there! Hopefully they are still releasing them because I was really looking forward to getting them! Thanks


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## knucklegary (Feb 25, 2022)

DS, thanks for video.. followed with the Ripsaw Tank.. 700Hp Duramax.. I'll take it! LoL


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## desert.snake (Feb 25, 2022)

knucklegary said:


> DS, thanks for video.. followed with the Ripsaw Tank.. 700Hp Duramax.. I'll take it! LoL


Atlas good


Spoiler: thing


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## knucklegary (Feb 25, 2022)

It's like a moon rover


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## nosuchagency (Mar 2, 2022)

still nothing on when these may be released?


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## TMedina (Mar 2, 2022)

nosuchagency said:


> still nothing on when these may be released?



I heard sometime in March. I've been checking daily because, well, I'm bored.


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## Monocrom (Mar 4, 2022)

nosuchagency said:


> still nothing on when these may be released?


Sadly at this point, the release date is.... "Eventually."


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## TMedina (Mar 4, 2022)

Monocrom said:


> Sadly at this point, the release date is.... "Eventually."



They're being consistent.


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## newbie66 (Mar 5, 2022)

Surefire did post this on their facebook page on the 2nd of March:
"It's coming! If you haven't heard the Turbo series release date is coming up! https://www.surefire.com/collections/turbo/"


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## cody12 (Mar 5, 2022)

Been gone for two years. Good to be back


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## bykfixer (Mar 6, 2022)

newbie66 said:


> Surefire did post this on their facebook page on the 2nd of March:
> "It's coming! If you haven't heard the Turbo series release date is coming up! https://www.surefire.com/collections/turbo/"


Looks like they are really going to do these. 
Yay!


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## knucklegary (Mar 6, 2022)

Sure wish they'd upgrade their tees to better graphics (Nineline R.E.D.)


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## Lumen83 (Mar 6, 2022)

I'm really hoping they're two stage "gas pedal" switches. If so, I will buy one or maybe even two!


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## desert.snake (Mar 10, 2022)

I look at the previous picture, it seems there is a gap. Most likely, a weak mode of operation will be, as in a tactician, by unscrewing the head. I looked at Cree XP-P again, it has up to 700 lm, 550 lm will be just with all the losses and if it is not overheated. This is just my personal guess, we'll see.


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## Lumen83 (Mar 10, 2022)

That will be a bummer for me. I'm sure the tactical community will be happy with it. But a narrow beam with a tight hot spot and a tactician UI doesn't make for much of an EDC light outside of a small percentage of the population using it for some type of duty/tactical/etc.. And that is fine. I'm sure it will be great for that. I was just hoping for more of an EDC light for an every day kind of guy.


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## newbie66 (Mar 10, 2022)

Got the answers on their facebook page on March 9.
Check the comments on their post: "SureFire Flank shirts are in stock. Get yours now at: "

Two people asked about UI and release date. In short, the answer is mid-April and the UI is High-Low similar to the Defender series.


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## troutpool (Mar 10, 2022)

newbie66 said:


> Two people asked about UI and release date. In short, the answer is mid-April and the UI is High-Low similar to the Defender series.


Please describe the UI of the Defender series for those who are unfamiliar with it.


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## newbie66 (Mar 10, 2022)

troutpool said:


> Please describe the UI of the Defender series for those who are unfamiliar with it.


It basically starts on High (550 Lumens) on the first press of the tailcap. Press until it clicks for constant ON.
Press the button the 2nd time within about 2 seconds from the first press and it will switch to Low output (25 Lumens).

The switching method is also similar to the G2X Pro and 6PX Pro. It is just that this one starts on High always.


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## troutpool (Mar 10, 2022)

Thank you--very helpful!


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## newbie66 (Mar 10, 2022)

troutpool said:


> Thank you--very helpful!


You are welcome!


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## Lumen83 (Mar 10, 2022)

Thats bad news probably for most of us. Decent UI for certain applications, but not one that many of us are going to appreciate for EDC. I was really excited to buy my first new production Surefire in years. But I'm going to have to pass.


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## Monocrom (Mar 10, 2022)

Lumen83 said:


> That will be a bummer for me. I'm sure the tactical community will be happy with it. But a narrow beam with a tight hot spot and a tactician UI doesn't make for much of an EDC light outside of a small percentage of the population using it for some type of duty/tactical/etc.. And that is fine. I'm sure it will be great for that. I was just hoping for more of an EDC light for an every day kind of guy.


A narrow beam with a tight hot-spot isn't even ideal for tactical applications. You want a good mix. Very bright hot-spot but with tons of spill to identify a potential threat that you might have to engage.


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## loydski29 (Mar 10, 2022)

I’ll be getting both sizes of the edc-dft can’t wait!


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## michaex (Mar 10, 2022)

It's still only speculation on the tailcap. According to product pages from page 2 of the thread, 1 cell was supposed to be a clicky and 2 cell gas pedal.

Time will tell


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## Monocrom (Mar 10, 2022)

michaex said:


> It's still only speculation on the tailcap. According to product pages from page 2 of the thread, 1 cell was supposed to be a clicky and 2 cell gas pedal.
> 
> Time will tell


We won't know until one of us has it in their warm, addicted hands; after it's available to buy online.


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## Lumen83 (Mar 10, 2022)

Monocrom said:


> A narrow beam with a tight hot-spot isn't even ideal for tactical applications. You want a good mix. Very bright hot-spot but with tons of spill to identify a potential threat that you might have to engage.


It very well may be that way, too. I should retract my claims about the beam pattern. I have no real knowledge of what it is like. I'm assuming it is a really tight and narrow beam based on the high candella vs. lumens numbers, which I am also not an expert in, and one video on the turbo series. So, maybe I will be wrong about the beam pattern. But I also can't get over the UI for an EDC light. Makes sense in tactical applications (I think. I'm no expert), but I really don't like clicky lights with high on first. Gas pedal solves the high on first issue, because it comes on right away if you push all the way, but doesn't come on if you dont.


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## bykfixer (Mar 10, 2022)

In the SureFire realm EDC is a tactical thing. It refers to self defense capable items carried everyday. Inkpen, knife, pistol, lighting tool etc. Then one day the term caught on for campers, hikers, outdoorsy types and the like. But it began as a term for people who place their life on the line everyday like cops, firefighters and other first responders. 

Now regarding the beam, if folks remember the EB1c had a tight beam. So did the EDCL series. The E series going back to incan has largely been thrower flashlights. They have enough spill to keep the user from tripping over tree roots. But the new crop is like a laser as in meant to pierce darkened glass in order for a patrolman to see inside a car with tinted windows. A spready beam will blind the police officer from flashback while the perp laughs at ole Barney Fife. It can also be used for search and rescue along with other uses where a high intensity throw is helpful. 

Always, always, always remember SureFire lights are targeted to military, first responders and special ops types. So whenever they put out a new product it has that market in mind.


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## Lumen83 (Mar 10, 2022)

Thank you for the great explanations, byfixer. That all makes a lot of sense. I didn't realize that "EDC" originated on the tactical side of things and made its way to the ordinary joe like me thereafter. The one thing I have to say though, is I find the EDCL1-T to have a very wide beam pattern. I call it a little bid floody. I love it, don't get me wrong. I honestly think it may be the perfect beam pattern for people like me to EDC.


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## aznsx (Mar 10, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> In the SureFire realm EDC is a tactical thing. It refers to self defense capable items carried everyday. Inkpen, knife, pistol, lighting tool etc. Then one day the term caught on for campers, hikers, outdoorsy types and the like. But it began as a term for people who place their life on the line everyday like cops, firefighters and other first responders.
> 
> Now regarding the beam, if folks remember the EB1c had a tight beam. So did the EDCL series. The E series going back to incan has largely been thrower flashlights. They have enough spill to keep the user from tripping over tree roots. But the new crop is like a laser as in meant to pierce darkened glass in order for a patrolman to see inside a car with tinted windows. A spready beam will blind the police officer from flashback while the perp laughs at ole Barney Fife. It can also be used for search and rescue along with other uses where a high intensity throw is helpful.
> 
> Always, always, always remember SureFire lights are targeted to military, first responders and special ops types. So whenever they put out a new product it has that market in mind.



This is but one (of a number of) ways in which SL and SF differ. SL, while heavily targeting the LEO/TAC user market segment with many products, also targets a broader selection of user market segments than SF. This is reflected (among other ways, such as UI options, which are already mentioned in this thread) in the fact that they offer lights with different dispersion / 'beam patterns', often indicated by HL / HPL prefixes in model names etc. SF (IMO) doesn't really design for / target a variety of user segments. It just isn't a core part of their product / marketing strategy.

EDIT: SL's '10-Tap' is yet another example of SL's desire to make lights that target and serve well in a wider variety of market segments (and user preferences). I'm no SF expert (never owned one), but I don't think SF does anything like that either.


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## rwolfenstein (Mar 11, 2022)

I have been waiting for something to replace my P1R. I am glad that Surefire is pushing now for duel fuel lights for general carry or work use.


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## aznsx (Mar 11, 2022)

aznsx said:


> This is but one (of a number of) ways in which SL and SF differ. SL, while heavily targeting the LEO/TAC user market segment with many products, also targets a broader selection of user market segments than SF. This is reflected (among other ways, such as UI options, which are already mentioned in this thread) in the fact that they offer lights with different dispersion / 'beam patterns', often indicated by HL / HPL prefixes in model names etc. SF (IMO) doesn't really design for / target a variety of user segments. It just isn't a core part of their product / marketing strategy.
> 
> EDIT: SL's '10-Tap' is yet another example of SL's desire to make lights that target and serve well in a wider variety of market segments (and user preferences). I'm no SF expert (never owned one), but I don't think SF does anything like that either.



I neglected to get to the larger point for me personally: If these new models use a 'tap/double-tap, H-L' interface that would be perfect for me, as it matches my current usual carry light. With that, and their long-awaited embrace of lithium ion power now, I could well be lookin' at my first Surefire ever!
EDIT: P. S. I would, however, very much like to see an FL-1 compliant impact rating.


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## bykfixer (Mar 11, 2022)

Lumen83 said:


> Thank you for the great explanations, byfixer. That all makes a lot of sense. I didn't realize that "EDC" originated on the tactical side of things and made its way to the ordinary joe like me thereafter. The one thing I have to say though, is I find the EDCL1-T to have a very wide beam pattern. I call it a little bid floody. I love it, don't get me wrong. I honestly think it may be the perfect beam pattern for people like me to EDC.


I doubt the EDC DFT beam will be like a snoot beam, as in looks like you stuck an empty toilet paper roll over the flashlight to kill all spill. It should have plenty of spill for times like warehouse raids or that sort of duty like the EDBL-series.

AZ, Streamlights first consumer (if you will) flashlight was a thrower around 1973 or 4 that was used mainly by boaters due to it's heavy weight and high cost. But they opted to go into LEO role a few years later and also bought Kel-Lite, which helped them compete with Maglite. By the time the SureFire 6 had hit the market Streamlight was already entrenched in the minds of many Americans as a brand that was an alternative to Maglite.
They and SureFire generally played nice together. "I'll go my way you go your way" kinda thing. Streamlight had crossed swords with Maglite, got their ear cut off and nearly bled to death. They stamped a bezel of their 2D clone called Excailber without permission from the patent owner Maglite. 

Later when SureFire needed light bulbs and Streamlight needed cash a deal was struck. The SureFire 6 had bulbs from a Scorpion for a time. But now each has their corner of the market.


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## thermal guy (Mar 11, 2022)

this is SF first 18350 right?


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## knucklegary (Mar 11, 2022)

^ My money is burning a hole in my pocket..

Good info Byk!


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## rwolfenstein (Mar 11, 2022)

I just hope that the batteries that Surefire uses are the ones with the charging port on them so you can charge on the go.


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## bykfixer (Mar 11, 2022)

Eh, if not Streamlight does rwolf. Elzetta has RCR's and AA's like that also.


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## rwolfenstein (Mar 11, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> Eh, if not Streamlight does rwolf. Elzetta has RCR's and AA's like that also.


I've never heard of Elzetta... but they have interesting items


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## bykfixer (Mar 11, 2022)

Just found a SureFire 18650 that has a micro usb charging port. Battery Junction lists them in stock. 
3500mAh vs Streamlight 2600mAh. 
Both are made overseas.


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## TMedina (Mar 12, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> Always, always, always remember SureFire lights are targeted to military, first responders and special ops types. So whenever they put out a new product it has that market in mind.


Which is interesting because in the PX and BX shops I've been in recently, nary a Surefire is to be seen. The shelves are dominated by Streamlight and Nite Ize, with a smattering of smaller offerings.

Back in 06, the Army PX had an entire section of nothing but Surefire handheld flashlights.


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## TMedina (Mar 12, 2022)

rwolfenstein said:


> I've never heard of Elzetta... but they have interesting items


Elzetta is a weirdly kept industry secret. I don't know why they aren't more widely known; they made a splash using one of their early model of flashlights to hammer a nail into a 2x4.

Unfortunately, they moved into using their own engines - I would have liked to pick up a 2 cell Elzetta Bravo with subdued head for military use.


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## aznsx (Mar 12, 2022)

TMedina said:


> Which is interesting because in the PX and BX shops I've been in recently, nary a Surefire is to be seen. The shelves are dominated by Streamlight and Nite Ize, with a smattering of smaller offerings.
> 
> Back in 06, the Army PX had an entire section of nothing but Surefire handheld flashlights.



I find that interesting, and have no idea how to explain it. I do use some number of SL products to be sure though, so I'd probably be OK with it personally, although I'd still like to have some SF options. I still find it strange however, and would like to know what precipitated the change you've seen.


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## TMedina (Mar 12, 2022)

aznsx said:


> I find that interesting, and have no idea how to explain it. I do use some number of SL products to be sure though, so I'd probably be OK with it personally, although I'd still like to have some SF options. I still find it strange however, and would like to know what precipitated the change you've seen.


There are a number of possibilities - it could be as simple as a decision by the AAFES folks. 

On the other hand, Surefire was also slow to adopt LEDs - back when I was headed to Iraq in 06, an E-6 was extolling the virtues of the Surefire 6P incandescent. Specifically, he told me about the time a HMMWV ran over his, and still worked just fine.

From an E-4's perspective, that was awesome *but* a 30 ~ 60 minute run time for an $80 light, which also required pretty expensive CR123s to kept fed wasn't an attractive proposition. Compare that to some of even the rough first gen flashlights, which ran for hours on far cheaper AAs or AAAs. All of which made it a hard sell to lower enlisted. I ended up buying a C2 for emergencies, and my go-to lights were some Inova and Gerber LED flashlights. 

Fast-forward, Surefire seems to have stepped back from handheld flashlight market with the exception of one or two new offerings; by comparison, Streamlight has a much broader base of offerings. And the Nite Ize acquisition of Inova gave them an inroad into the budget light market.


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## bykfixer (Mar 13, 2022)

Streamlights sell better than SureFire because the price tag is lower. It's that simple.

The large manufacturers often require a small store owner to buy a bunch of product so instead of buying a dozen lights at a time they would have to buy a dozen boxes…of each model minimum order. That's one reason.

Name recognition is another. The rookie crowd often have never heard of SureFire and when they see how much they cost, again they respond "can you show me that Streamlight?" It's a Kimber vs Taurus type thing. Rookies often can't afford a Kimber or a SureFire so they choose something with a decent reputation that costs less.

Couple that with the fact nearly everybody who wants an LED flashlight in 2020+ has one. So sales of LED flashlights have plummeted in recent years. Again SureFire product sits on the shelf due to being seen as "behind the times" by many so they choose that new upgraded Streamlight product when replacing an aging LED light.

SureFire will be ok. Their slice of the consumer market has never been very big. Nor will it ever be. But they will probably always be one of the choices of lighting tool for the folks who go after the big fish in the criminal world or have the most dangerous roles in law enforcement where failure is not an option.

SureFire once had huge contracts they no longer have. And unlike us flashlight hobbyists, the SureFire market is largely made up of people who use a light they were issued long ago year after year, replacing parts on the light like a cracked button boot. They have a couple of flashlights and that's it. One for the car, one for the work shop, one for work. Maybe a dedicated weapon light as well. Maybe not. I know cops who still use their old 6P flashlights. That and the Streamlight SL-20 incan. They say "eh, I'll get an LED light some day"……

I have neighbors who see me testing flashlights in my back yard at times who'll say "can you change the bulb in my flashlight please?" and bring out an old 2D Maglite. I bought a dealer sized Maglite repair kit one year in order to rebuild their old flashlights and give them a triple a minimag LED to keep nearby. Now most of them have a really modern cellular phone. lol.


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## TMedina (Mar 14, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> SureFire will be ok



Truer words were never spoken.


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## kerneldrop (Mar 14, 2022)

Surefire are purpose built for 1%er hard users like me. For the rest of you there’s Hanks


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## FPSRelic (Mar 16, 2022)

Lumen83 said:


> That will be a bummer for me. I'm sure the tactical community will be happy with it. But a narrow beam with a tight hot spot and a tactician UI doesn't make for much of an EDC light outside of a small percentage of the population using it for some type of duty/tactical/etc.. And that is fine. I'm sure it will be great for that. I was just hoping for more of an EDC light for an every day kind of guy.


I'm an every day kind of guy and I prefer lights that have throw over flood. I EDC either an L1 or an EDCL1-T which both use the tactical 2 position tailcap switch, and I love it.

The reason I like throwier lights like these is that I use my flaslight as a tool to either light up objects at a distance or in crawl spaces, or to light up dark recesses in bright rooms. If I need a floody light all I have to do is turn on the light switch in the room, or use the light on my mobile phone (which I never use). I've tried floodier lights that people say I should prefer for an EDC and I've always been left wanting that throwy beam again - I have a triple XLP 3000 lumen creamer that sits in a box.

The reason I like the tactical switch is even though I find the low mode on a throwy light does 89% of what I need it to do, I can still get to high mode just as fast and easy as low mode - there's no stuffing around with clicking switches with or without memory or whatever. It just works.

Just my 2 cents.


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## stuart (Mar 19, 2022)

I haven't been excited about anything or bought any significant lights in several years. This one excites me. Been using the EDC l1t with an Efest 16340 almost exclusively for a few years now. I too am hoping for a gas pedal but would settle for a twist head for high/low. The defender style 2 stage (comes on high) would be a step backwards for me. Carried all of the versions of the Backup for many years but blinding myself and having to double tap for low (which was 99% of the time) was annoying. I look forward to having an "official" rechargeable as opposed to my "unofficial" rechargeable. My preference would be: 1. Gas pedal. 2. Twisty like the tactician (which isn't remotely tactical in my opinion unless you leave it on high. 3. 2 Stage tail, comes on low. (also not tactical). 4. Defender style comes on high (also not tactical). My definition of flashlight tactical means simple/intuitive/foolproof/stress proof. This doesn't mean that its limited to L.E./Military. I think all benefit from a simple intuitive interface. Curious to see if the awesome candela is going to be like the almost un-usable (in daily use) Malkoff E2 Hyper. If so I would still probably buy one because of the low option as well as the fun factor. As it stands, for me, the EDC 1lt is the current king. Excited for the new one, but not holding my breath.


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## FridgeRaider93 (Mar 20, 2022)

I think the new Cloud Defensive MCH may blow this out the water... 18650 or 18350. Duel or single output. EDC (more floody beam) or high candela. I was excited about the Surefire Turbos but maybe not so much now after hearing about the new Cloud Defensive.


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## loydski29 (Mar 20, 2022)

FridgeRaider93 said:


> I think the new Cloud Defensive MCH may blow this out the water... 18650 or 18350. Duel or single output. EDC (more floody beam) or high candela. I was excited about the Surefire Turbos but maybe not so much now after hearing about the new Cloud Defensive.


I have the new cloud defensive MCH and I’m impressed with it I have the high candela and one of the EDC on order can’t wait to get that! I will be getting the new surefire and looking forward to comparing them. I would like to get a modlite to see how that compares also.


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## sgt253 (Mar 20, 2022)

@loydski29: How can one go about ordering/obtaining the MCH? Cloud Defensive's website says to check back; they're not available yet there. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## Olumin (Mar 20, 2022)

FridgeRaider93 said:


> I think the new Cloud Defensive MCH may blow this out the water...


Is that another one of those lights that isnt as good as a malkoff for double the price?


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## FPSRelic (Mar 20, 2022)

FridgeRaider93 said:


> I think the new Cloud Defensive MCH may blow this out the water... 18650 or 18350. Duel or single output. EDC (more floody beam) or high candela. I was excited about the Surefire Turbos but maybe not so much now after hearing about the new Cloud Defensive.


I'd be onto that but for the clicky switch it uses. I prefer the tactical 2 position tailcap switch the EDC1/2-DFT has.


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## loydski29 (Mar 20, 2022)

sgt253 said:


> @loydski29: How can one go about ordering/obtaining the MCH? Cloud Defensive's website says to check back; they're not available yet there. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


You can back order the cloud MCH’s. I got one on the initial release on march 4 and back ordered the other I’m waiting for. They sold around 3,000 within a few minutes.


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## aznsx (Mar 21, 2022)

Olumin said:


> Is that another one of those lights that isnt as good as a malkoff for double the price?



I recently remarked: If you make it shiny, they will come.
I will add: If you price it high enough, they will come.

Yes, I'm essentially joking - I'm sure they're good lights. But no joke, like cars and so many other things, 'exclusivity' can generate a lot of revenue with human animals.


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## FridgeRaider93 (Mar 21, 2022)

Olumin said:


> Is that another one of those lights that isnt as good as a malkoff for double the price?


They're 220 USD not sure what the equivalent malkoff would cost.


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## FridgeRaider93 (Mar 21, 2022)

FridgeRaider93 said:


> They're 220 USD not sure what the equivalent malkoff would cost. You also get a charger and battery too for that price.


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## fulee9999 (Mar 21, 2022)

Olumin said:


> Is that another one of those lights that isnt as good as a malkoff for double the price?


I mean it's only double the price without the huge advantage of the p60 platform... oh wait...


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## Lights and Guns (Mar 24, 2022)

FridgeRaider93 said:


> I think the new Cloud Defensive MCH may blow this out the water... 18650 or 18350. Duel or single output. EDC (more floody beam) or high candela. I was excited about the Surefire Turbos but maybe not so much now after hearing about the new Cloud Defensive.


So was I until I got my hands on an MCH… 

MCH felt cheap compared to my malkoff HOT61 and modlites. 

The threads didn’t seem to be machined as well as modlite or malkoff and the weight of the light was so light there is no way the light can handle the advertised output. 

I since have gotten rid of the MCH due to multiple issues. The first of which is that the light gets WAY TOO HOT WAY TOO QUICKLY…. If you use the light on high for any meaningful amount of time besides a quick burst or 30 seconds the entire light (both head and body all the way to the tail cap get HOT…) I tried using the light on a walk and after 7-10 minutes the thing could fry an egg, I couldn’t hold it comfortably and honestly felt as if there was a chance of burning my hand if I didn’t turn it off. 

In comparison the modlite does get hot but not nearly as quickly, it takes WAY longer for the modlite to start heating up and I’ve never found myself turning the modlite off so I wouldn’t burn myself. 

Obviously the malkoff doesn’t get hot but it also only put out about half the output of the other 2 lights so not a fair comparison. 

MCH also has a coating on the lens too make the tint warmer which translates into weird blue rings around the spill of the light. Didn’t like that at all gave the light a cheap look/feel. Just found it strange on a $220 light. 

MCH button press is way too stiff even without the ND protectors and BD protectors r plastic, should have been metal. Also many reports of light malfunctioning / flickering right out of the box for many, and trying to take the clip off or change it to another type of clip has been causing many guys to break their orings… so frequently that CD needed to create a tutorial on how to service that part of the light. I think CD has a lot wrong with the MCH and need to fix it.,. I’m sure after this beta product they’ll get it right with the gen 2 hand held thrill undoubtably bring out. 

I think indoors all you need is the malkoff though outdoor it leaves something to be desired… with only 20k cd. the modlite is amazing indoors and out. 

My one complaint with modlite was no low mode, which is why I tried CD’s MCH… 

I’m excited for sure fires offering due to the decent amount of lumen output but not ridiculous so the light won’t heat up…. Also the high candela will enable it to punch too far distances… and the fact it has a low mode…. Perfect 25 lumen output…

I think it might be a winner…. But we shall see when I get it in my hands…

If only modlite would come out with a high/low head… it would be perfect! 
Maybe this surefire offering is the answer


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## fulee9999 (Mar 24, 2022)

Lights and Guns said:


> So was I until I got my hands on an MCH…


wow thanks for the detailed experience, I was on the fence for the new MCH, it had too many things going for it before I read your post, but at least now I can spare a few bucks on that one 

can you give me some hints on why would one buy a modlite for 300$? 
( from the pictures I would imagine it uses the standard 1 inch tail, so it's compatible with Malkoff and SureFire tails, right? )


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## Lights and Guns (Mar 24, 2022)

fulee9999 said:


> wow thanks for the detailed experience, I was on the fence for the new MCH, it had too many things going for it before I read your post, but at least now I can spare a few bucks on that one
> 
> can you give me some hints on why would one buy a modlite for 300$?
> ( from the pictures I would imagine it uses the standard 1 inch tail, so it's compatible with Malkoff and SureFire tails, right? )


Absolutely my pleasure!
In my experience and for my personal needs (LE) I wasn’t able to find anything out there with the output/throw and form factor that competed with our beat out modlite.

Yes Malkoff’s are amazing, but the M61HOT is Malkoff’s light that competes directly with the modlite, and it just simply cannot. Like I said earlier, indoors it will serve you very very well, however outdoors it is quite a bit lack-luster especially if you compare it side by side by a modlite PLHV2 or OKW… there really isn’t much comparison…

It’s expensive yes, but you can find modlites selling used for $225-$250 for the full setup, which isn’t that bad… especially considering their quality, very high level in my opinion. Great customer service have always gotten back to me within a day and helped me out with everything I’ve needed.

I’ve used the same modlite for several years and have beat it up, dropped it, ECT daily … 2+ years and never a single issue or hiccup. The light always performs and i don’t baby my equipment. I don’t mind spending the Coin as long as the product will deliver… I can attest that modlite is indeed worth the money…

If you are a first responder they give you 15% off, if you buy used you can also save a good amount as opposed to spending 300+ on brand new…

If your looking for a tactical light, this is it… or at least so far it’s the best I could find. I carry a smaller light (old 4sevens preon) for admin work while I’m at work, and reserve the modlite for the bigger tasks…

I’ve been trying to find a light that has a low mode but fell short every time I tried something new… I have my reservations about surefire due to 550 lumens - it might just be a bit too low… I would have liked around 650-700 … but I MIGHT still pick one up to check it out…. But overall I’m absolutely happy with the modlites … tanks of a light… and performance is great…

Also, yes I see guys use the surefire tailcaps on the all the time!

Lastly, modlite are fully serviceable… you can change springs out yourself very easily, along with the lens! Takes no time at all…

With MCH, if your lens broke you need to send the light in to them, and cannot be changed by the user… I like being able to fix my own stuff especially if it goes down in the field… I carry an extra lens in my pack just incase, it’s tiny and basically no weight added so why not…

Easily pass on the MCH IMO… but your are crazy if don’t give modlite a chance - they are great!


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## fulee9999 (Mar 24, 2022)

Lights and Guns said:


> If your looking for a tactical light, this is it… or at least so far it’s the best I could find. I carry a smaller light (old 4sevens preon) for admin work while I’m at work, and reserve the modlite for the bigger tasks…



to be honest I'm not squeamish about spending 300 dollars on a flashlight if I get the bang for my buck, I was just wondering if they've put their engineering where their mouth ( price tag..?! ) is 

my only two concerns about modlite are, well one, what you just mentioned, that it's not really suited for admin work, and sometimes I do need to light something up right next to my face, aaaand yeah, a few tens of thousands of candela right in my eye would be suboptimal 

the other thing is so far I've seen very mixed reviews on the durability of the modlite, and I'm not sure how or why that is, from what I can see, or gather from technical data it should be fairly resilient to... well basically anything, and you also had no issues with it as well, so I'm not sure what's up with that


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## Lights and Guns (Mar 24, 2022)

fulee9999 said:


> to be honest I'm not squeamish about spending 300 dollars on a flashlight if I get the bang for my buck, I was just wondering if they've put their engineering where their mouth ( price tag..?! ) is
> 
> my only two concerns about modlite are, well one, what you just mentioned, that it's not really suited for admin work, and sometimes I do need to light something up right next to my face, aaaand yeah, a few tens of thousands of candela right in my eye would be suboptimal
> 
> the other thing is so far I've seen very mixed reviews on the durability of the modlite, and I'm not sure how or why that is, from what I can see, or gather from technical data it should be fairly resilient to... well basically anything, and you also had no issues with it as well, so I'm not sure what's up with that


Yeah, if your intending on using it for admin work, don’t… it’s too bright for up close work imo. Which is why I carry the small preon …. Which is why I’ve been looking around to see other offerings with a low mode… but come up empty so far for any lights that can compare to the modlite. 

I know modlite has had issues with the pl350 (pistol light) but other than that… the handhelds have been amazing and I’ve not really seen many people having issues with them. 
I know a bunch of guys don’t like the owner of modlite, Cory but I don’t take about that… I care about the product, and these products deliver… 

I’ve had a modlite strapped to my chest rig for 2 1/2 years in the snow, rain, ice, sun… and never a single problem. I can tell you durability wise these things are tanks… 

Give it a shot man, what’s the worst that can happen? You either don’t like it and return it. Or you can resell it and recoup most of your money. 

I’m telling you man. Modlites are my favorite…. 

I like them so much I EDC a 18350 modlite… even though it isn’t the best suited for edc tasks at all … I just dig it… haha 

If they could throw a low mode on it’d be stellar 

Anyway goodluck with whatever you choose to do my man!


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## tango44 (Mar 24, 2022)

March 24, 2022 and these are not available yet...


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## fulee9999 (Mar 24, 2022)

tango44 said:


> March 24, 2022 and these are not available yet...



SureFire stated on their facebook they're coming mid April

( also stated here two pages back : https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/surefire-edc1-dft-and-edc2-dft.479071/post-5491013)


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## euroken (Mar 25, 2022)

Just looked at the Cloud Defensive MCH pictures...

Looks cool but I don't know why this one would scream $220 MSRP...

Besides, will this have a good anti-roll design? Those little chamfers on the tailcap likely will not be enough...Oh the countless times the light rolled off a surface...

If it's going to be a true pocketable EDC, anti-roll would have been nice...otherwise, it's like having a recalled Olights that needs to stay in your holster  I guess these lights are meant for 'tactical'(don't hang me for using this term) usage only?

Not knocking the quality and engineering that went into this but just something that jumped out at me.

And, no, never owned a cloud defensive (or modlites)... for that matter.


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## loydski29 (Mar 25, 2022)

euroken said:


> Just looked at the Cloud Defensive MCH pictures...
> 
> Looks cool but I don't know why this one would scream $220 MSRP...
> 
> ...


I’m still very happy with my MCH! I’ve had it almost two weeks and no issues it doesn’t feel cheep in anyway I have the duel mode so it’s nice having the lower light out put when I don’t need the full output. As far as anti roll the pocket clip makes it so it doesn’t roll. I have a malkoff being delivered today so I’m looking forward to comparing the two. I know the out put on the malkoff is considerably less but still excited to try it out. I live on a large property and need lights with a lot of throw and the MCH does that well I bought the MCH in the EDC head as well but haven’t received it yet but looking forward to trying that one out.


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## ledbetter (Mar 25, 2022)

Looks like a lot of money and expertise put into a slick web page. Quite the contrast to Malkoff’s. Don’t have any knowledge if product lives up to online image.


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## euroken (Mar 25, 2022)

Glad you like it and, of course, to each to their own...

Again, not trying to knock Cloud Defensive specifically.

Just thinking the countless times the forum discussed the EDC light designs, such as tail standing option (or candle lighting for that matter without a diffuser), bezel crenellations to allow the user to see whether the light is on or not, or the anti-roll that I mentioned (the list goes on). Either the companies develop these lights for specific situations and scenarios (Surefire, Malkoff included, but Malkoff gets a pass as Gene is an awesome guy ) or they're just not seeing these things as important in their design...

What I see in the Cloud Defensive light (and other companies) is the repeat of same old stuff, make in USA with higher fit/finish, with newer brighter LED, put exorbitant price on them and advertise them as bomb/fail proof lights. No different than well made lights made by other companies, just with a different look. 

Surefire EDC1-T or EDC2-T for instance, is a leap forward for them simply because they are just now jumping on the 18350 band wagon, but to me, still using same old switch mechanism, but with different LEDs. I wouldn't even doubt it if their board is the same as the old...(don't know, haven't read all the posts here but don't really care either lol).

Will be interesting to see some reviews eventually.


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## fulee9999 (Mar 30, 2022)

SureFire: The EDC1 and EDC2 will release mid-April

Impatient me checking every day if they released it sooner:


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## tango44 (Apr 2, 2022)

euroken said:


> Just looked at the Cloud Defensive MCH pictures...
> 
> Looks cool but I don't know why this one would scream $220 MSRP...
> 
> ...


I'm incredibly happy with my MCH micro, it is small to pocket carry and the Thyrm clip works great, secure and won't break like the Surefire clips.
Excellent beam (HC 18350 model here) and it won't roll if that worries you.
Batt will last for about 50 mins Wich is enough for me.
Not cheap, but I really doubt that the Surefire new models will be cheap.
Click tail cap works great because I hate the gas pedal tail cap on my Surefires, mu thumb hurst after a couple of minutes pushing it.
Love the fact that comes with the 2 levels and starts on low and then high. I can't use my Modlite indoors because of the only single output...
This was $200 well spent.


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## Lights and Guns (Apr 3, 2022)

fulee9999 said:


> SureFire: The EDC1 and EDC2 will release mid-April
> 
> Impatient me checking every day if they released it sooner:
> 
> View attachment 25721


Can’t wait for when the surefires come out! … ordering 1 of each. - thinking they’ll kick my modlite out of my pocket (due to modlite not having a low mode, so they suck for EDC/admin tasks) … and by the looks of it will be better at dealing with the heat… which seems to be an issue the MCH’s have.. within 2-3 minutes on high output the MCH is uncomfortably hot to hold. The modlites can get up there in heat as well but take much longer to get to that point Haven't been as excited for a light in a while!


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## nosuchagency (Apr 15, 2022)

remind me if new releases hit their website prior to being released in wild?


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## rwolfenstein (Apr 16, 2022)

But does having all the lumens matter? I mean I guess it depends on the task. I think a good throw with good lumens would be a good combo.


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## fulee9999 (Apr 16, 2022)

at 550 lumens and 71000 cd I don't see it as part of the lumen wars, it's basically a corpo version of the Malkoff E2XT/E2XTD or Modlite PLHv2.
What is intriguing is the two modes and the claimed 2 hour runtime.
If they price this right, this could be a real hit


----------



## bykfixer (Apr 16, 2022)

It's another throwback idea by SureFire rwolf.
Back in the day some models had a "turbo head" option where a big ole relector made sure light from the light bulb shot foward very well. It was a search & rescue light like a gigantic 7D big head Rayovac Sportsman in a much smaller package. The big S&R lights could throw a beam hundreds of yards with only 150 or so lumens.






The concept here is much the same. Only 550 lumens using an optical lens system makes sure those 550 lumens shoot out the front like from a bazooka. I like the idea of the dang light not getting so hot like those high lumen numbers that can get rather warm very quickly before a thermal step down kicks in.


----------



## fulee9999 (Apr 16, 2022)

oh wow, that's an interesting blast from the past! 

I thought you were gonna mention the dominator as an S&R light, because that is "only" 2400 lumens as well, but 200.000 cd 
If this new EDC1 will sustain the 500 lumens with the tight 71000 cd beam for an hour, this is going to be amazing!


----------



## bykfixer (Apr 16, 2022)

Here was a turbo head conversion for the 9N


----------



## Lights and Guns (Apr 21, 2022)

Any updates on release time-frame yet?


----------



## Dave D (Apr 21, 2022)

Lights and Guns said:


> Any updates on release time-frame yet?



No updates and non of the usual big SF suppliers have them listed for pre-sale either at the moment.


----------



## tango44 (Apr 21, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> Always, always, always remember SureFire lights are targeted to military, first responders and special ops types. So whenever they put out a new product it has that market in mind.


It's funny because most of the clients are average civilian Joes that are firearm enthusiasts!
SF has military contracts but most of them are in weapon light systems, not handhelds and police departments and other agencies tend to buy Streamlight for the satisfactory performance and great price...


----------



## Lights and Guns (Apr 21, 2022)

Dave D said:


> No updates and non of the usual big SF suppliers have them listed for pre-sale either at the moment.


Okay thanks man - I'm trying to hold out for these. Though I've been eyeing the tactician - it looks pretty dope as well, seems like a solid form factor for EDC not too big not too small.

Though I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the UI - I like twisting the head for high/low - however the tail cap is where I'm standoffish - twisted for constant / pressing for momentary.


----------



## Megalamuffin (Apr 22, 2022)

On a side note, they don’t seem to have the E1B mv in the 2022 catalog. Is it discontinued?


----------



## Monocrom (Apr 22, 2022)

Out of the catalog?
Yeah.... if you've had your eye on one for awhile, now would be the best time to pull the trigger.


----------



## bykfixer (Apr 22, 2022)

tango44 said:


> It's funny because most of the clients are average civilian Joes that are firearm enthusiasts!
> SF has military contracts but most of them are in weapon light systems, not handhelds and police departments and other agencies tend to buy Streamlight for the satisfactory performance and great price...


Agreed. 
But back in the heyday for SureFire many of their products were designed for military use. When things went their way lots and lots were produced for military contracts. 
Yeah, these days it's like you said. And since the average patrolman is not paid a lot of $ it makes sense to opt for a Streamlight. I know plenty of police who've either never heard of SureFire or quip "SureFire? I can't afford those". They all carry a Streamlight product. Mostly issued Stingers.


----------



## rwolfenstein (Apr 24, 2022)

Surefire stated during shot show that their lights would be out first quarter. That time has gone and past. I wonder if they are having supply chain issues.


----------



## WDR65 (Apr 24, 2022)

rwolfenstein said:


> Surefire stated during shot show that their lights would be out first quarter. That time has gone and past. I wonder if they are having supply chain issues.


This is par for the course for Surefire. They may be having supply issues or the lights failed testing or QC in some way. It’s been like this since at least 2002 or 3 when I first started paying attention to this forum and Surefire’s catalogs. 

I hope they’re introduced but wouldn’t hold my breath.


----------



## bykfixer (Apr 24, 2022)

With all of the supply chain issues it shouldn't be a surprise these were delayed. 
My coworker had his catalytic convertors stolen on his work truck in December and is still waiting for parts.


----------



## aznsx (Apr 24, 2022)

Under-commit, and over-deliver.

That's older than I am, and still good policy in my experience.


----------



## rwolfenstein (Apr 28, 2022)

I was thinking about this the other day, an LEP would give decent candela for a good distance. If you are looking for distance that is an option.


----------



## fulee9999 (May 26, 2022)

more than a month late, and still no sign of the new turbos, and SureFire stopped responding to queries about these lights


----------



## michaex (May 26, 2022)

LX1


----------



## hamhanded (May 26, 2022)

Surefire is probably so fed up with the enthusiast crowd by now

"The nerds are email bombing us again, what do we do Chief"
"I dunno, put out an _x-treme_ video with a bunch of .mil dudes running around with automatic weapons"
"K boss"
"Oh yeah and make sure it ends with a 'coming soon', but don't say what is coming, or when soon is"
"You got it"
"And I guess if we're putting out another light let's just reuse the same drivers and LEDs we've been using for a decade"
"Won't they hate that?"
"..._yes_."


----------



## FPSRelic (May 26, 2022)

michaex said:


> LX1


I suspect they will be like that in more ways than just UI. I half suspect they won't see the light of day just like the LX1


----------



## Monocrom (May 26, 2022)

fulee9999 said:


> more than a month late, and still no sign of the new turbos, and SureFire stopped responding to queries about these lights


SureFire is nothing if not consistent. 
Announced release dates mean nothing. 
When they're out is when they'll be out.


----------



## pancakeayaka (Jun 3, 2022)

Some SF EDC2 DFT news from TFB. The tail switch is a forward clicky😔
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/06/02/surefire-edc2-dft-flashlight/


----------



## fulee9999 (Jun 3, 2022)

pancakeayaka said:


> Some SF EDC2 DFT news from TFB. The tail switch is a forward clicky😔
> https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/06/02/surefire-edc2-dft-flashlight/



I'm not sure if that is a surprise, I don't think SureFire even has reverse clicky tails, but thanks for the info!

Good news that they are still showcasing this, so hopefully it might see the shelves, but the language that the author used made me smile:


> extremely powerful (550 lumens)



I mean yeah.. We're way beyond that for years now, however the 71000 candela and the 3.75 hours of runtime sound impressive!

Also... is that an OSRAM led or am I just seeing things?


----------



## desert.snake (Jun 3, 2022)

fulee9999 said:


> I'm not sure if that is a surprise, I don't think SureFire even has reverse clicky tails, but thanks for the info!
> 
> Good news that they are still showcasing this, so hopefully it might see the shelves, but the language that the author used made me smile:
> 
> ...



Need a larger image, I'm still hoping for Cree XP-P


https://cree-led.com/media/documents/dsXPP.pdf



According to the characteristics, it also fits, + it is 3535, so they can use a stock of old LED boards, and not make new 3030 for Osram


----------



## fulee9999 (Jun 3, 2022)

desert.snake said:


> Need a larger image, I'm still hoping for Cree XP-P
> 
> 
> https://cree-led.com/media/documents/dsXPP.pdf
> ...



That sounds logical, big manufacturers don't really like using new component.

Reading up on a completely different topic I bumped in to this cool table:


I don't know, from this it seems like more of an OSRAM judging by the yellow-to-white ratio, but your idea seems more plausible.


----------



## desert.snake (Jun 3, 2022)

Let's just wait a couple more months until it's in someone's hands


----------



## Olumin (Jun 3, 2022)

fulee9999 said:


> I'm not sure if that is a surprise, I don't think SureFire even has reverse clicky tails, but thanks for the info!


The disappointment stems from the lack of a "gas pedal" switch like on the previous iteration. That makes these lights a hard pass for me as well, as that tailcap is what makes these lights unique IMO.


----------



## fulee9999 (Jun 3, 2022)

Olumin said:


> The disappointment stems from the lack of a "gas pedal" switch like on the previous iteration. That makes these lights a hard pass for me as well, as that tailcap is what makes these lights unique IMO.



we unfortunately already knew that, SF confirmed that it will be the same electronic switching as most other flashlights:




( fb link bugged out, it's a comment under the March 9th post )

I really like the gas pedal switch on the EDCL1-T, I don't understand why did they abandon it, it was the best, most innovative thing SureFire did in the recent years...
( and it works well, highly intuitive, I don't get it )


----------



## sgt253 (Jun 3, 2022)

Its too bad that they're putting a click tailcap on these lights. I was excited about the possibilities of the push through or gas pedal type tailcap. Pass for me.


----------



## bykfixer (Jun 4, 2022)

$300!?!?!?  
I'm out.


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 4, 2022)

Crap.... everything's gone up in price.


----------



## knucklegary (Jun 4, 2022)

$300 doesn't buy ya much anymore.. Here in CA gets me only a few tanks of fuel.


----------



## fulee9999 (Jun 4, 2022)

Spoiler






knucklegary said:


> $300 doesn't buy ya much anymore.. Here in CA gets me only a few tanks of fuel.



Have you tried buying the fuel only, without the tanks?


----------



## sgt253 (Jun 4, 2022)

@fulee9999 : Now that's funny!


----------



## Belkar (Jun 7, 2022)

I’ve been stalking this particular thread and this light since it was announced. 

I love my EDCL2-T. I’m probably buying one of these as soon as they are available.


----------



## Belkar (Jun 20, 2022)

sgt253 said:


> Its too bad that they're putting a click tailcap on these lights. I was excited about the possibilities of the push through or gas pedal type tailcap. Pass for me.


If it’s threaded the same so you think you’d be able to switch the EDCL2/1 tail cap onto it?

When I buy one, I may try it.


----------



## sgt253 (Jun 20, 2022)

Belkar said:


> If it’s threaded the same so you think you’d be able to switch the EDCL2/1 tail cap onto to?
> 
> When I buy one, I may try it.


If the threads are the same that's definitely a possible solution. I was on the Surefire website recently. They have changed the tail cap on the EDCL1/2 to what appears to be the Tactician style tail cap. Its a gas pedal: push a little for low and harder for high. Twist for constant on. So we have those...


----------



## kerneldrop (Jun 20, 2022)

Did these lights ever hit the market ?


----------



## fulee9999 (Jun 21, 2022)

not "yet", but they took it to SHOT and NRAAM, and the official site ( https://www.surefire.com/collections/turbo/ ) still lists it, so maybe this will eventually hit the shelves


----------



## pancakeayaka (Jun 23, 2022)

sgt253 said:


> If the threads are the same that's definitely a possible solution. I was on the Surefire website recently. They have changed the tail cap on the EDCL1/2 to what appears to be the Tactician style tail cap. Its a gas pedal: push a little for low and harder for high. Twist for constant on. So we have those...


Oh that new tail cap looks great!


----------



## desert.snake (Jun 23, 2022)

pancakeayaka said:


> Oh that new tail cap looks great!
> View attachment 29259


Looks great, but it would be much better for the gas pedal if they made the shifter stick longer/protruding beyond that rim with a ring, like on the old E-series lights. Here the pusher is recessed, it is not convenient for everyone to press. Personally, I would like to have a more protruding button, like on the bottom of the picture (this is a photo-edited image)


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## fulee9999 (Jun 23, 2022)

desert.snake said:


> Looks great, but it would be much better for the gas pedal if they made the shifter stick longer/protruding beyond that rim with a ring, like on the old E-series lights. Here the pusher is recessed, it is not convenient for everyone to press. Personally, I would like to have a more protruding button, like on the bottom of the picture (this is a photo-edited image)
> 
> View attachment 29261



I'm also a big advocate of the protruding button switch, however, the only flashlight I carry and has a recessed button is the EDCL1-T.
It feels very natural and you can activate it easily, you don't need to have the dexterity of a OB-GYN to turn it on, like on some flashlights.


----------



## pancakeayaka (Jun 23, 2022)

desert.snake said:


> Looks great, but it would be much better for the gas pedal if they made the shifter stick longer/protruding beyond that rim with a ring, like on the old E-series lights. Here the pusher is recessed, it is not convenient for everyone to press. Personally, I would like to have a more protruding button, like on the bottom of the picture (this is a photo-edited image)


I like large, tall button for the long travel clicky switch.
The semi-shrouded gas pedal switch suits me better, it gives me an index point between low & high mode.


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 23, 2022)

pancakeayaka said:


> Oh that new tail cap looks great!
> View attachment 29259


Looks like same tailcap design as on the SF Tactician. But they turned it into a clicky? That's unfortunate.


----------



## Mountain Man (Jun 23, 2022)

Can you put a z68 , or a regular clicky on the edc1? Never fell in love with my 6p switch, and prefer my clicking on my G2 mv.


----------



## Megalamuffin (Jun 23, 2022)

Mountain Man said:


> Can you put a z68 , or a regular clicky on the edc1? Never fell in love with my 6p switch, and prefer my clicking on my G2 mv.



I think it doesn’t work but can’t remember. I’ll try when I get home.

I like the new edc tailcap. Great way to attach a lanyard.


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## pancakeayaka (Jun 24, 2022)

Monocrom said:


> Looks like same tailcap design as on the SF Tactician. But they turned it into a clicky? That's unfortunate.


The new EDCL1T tailcap is the same length as the old one (longer than the Tacitician's). I think it is still a gas pedal.


----------



## Mountain Man (Jun 24, 2022)

Megalamuffin said:


> I think it doesn’t work but can’t remember. I’ll try when I get home.
> 
> I like the new edc tailcap. Great way to attach a lanyard.


Did it work?


----------



## desert.snake (Jun 24, 2022)

pancakeayaka said:


> The new EDCL1T tailcap is the same length as the old one (longer than the Tacitician's). I think it is still a gas pedal.



EDCL1T is not exactly what is in the title of the topic - EDC1-DFT and EDC2-DFT)) The names are too similar. Unfortunately, the EDC1-DFT seems to have a click-button.


----------



## Megalamuffin (Jun 24, 2022)

Mountain Man said:


> Did it work?



No. The tailcap threads on the body of gas pedal switch lights are much longer than other e series. This is tightened down all the way.


----------



## Mountain Man (Jun 24, 2022)

Megalamuffin said:


> No. The tailcap threads on the body of gas pedal switch lights are much longer than other e series. This is tightened down all the way.
> 
> View attachment 29340


Thanks for checking. Found another thread showing how different e series light's have different thread lengths.


----------



## Mountain Man (Jun 24, 2022)

This is what I found in another post, showing the thread differences.


----------



## tango44 (Jul 9, 2022)

7 months waiting and still no lights...


----------



## newbie66 (Jul 9, 2022)

Yeah.

Only new lights I can see are the P1RZ-IB-DF and P1RZ-B-DFT (combat grip P1r peacekeeper with intellibeam and 1500 lumens) 
Even then they are not in stock.


----------



## F89 (Jul 10, 2022)

desert.snake said:


> Need a larger image, I'm still hoping for Cree XP-P
> 
> 
> https://cree-led.com/media/documents/dsXPP.pdf
> ...


I just put a Cree XP-P in an E1D LED and it’s really impressive, well I think so anyway. 
I didn’t use the stock board as the light was modded ages ago and I’ve no idea where the original board is. I modified a copper DTP board to fit and used the stock driver (~1.7A on high from memory).


----------



## desert.snake (Jul 10, 2022)

Very cool! as far as I can see, the TIR lens has not changed since the time they changed those small lenses for XR-E to new ones that are still in X300 and modern E2D 1000 lm. The densest beam that I saw in this TIR was on EB1 with 200 lm and inside XP-E. Does it turn out to be even denser or about the same, but brighter?


----------



## F89 (Jul 10, 2022)

desert.snake said:


> Very cool! as far as I can see, the TIR lens has not changed since the time they changed those small lenses for XR-E to new ones that are still in X300 and modern E2D 1000 lm. The densest beam that I saw in this TIR was on EB1 with 200 lm and inside XP-E. Does it turn out to be even denser or about the same, but brighter?


I have one other similar light, the EB1 although it was the 300 lumen model (XPG2), I’ve also modded it. I put a 219C in it that one and a 2.3A driver.
I’ve never seen the EB1 with the XPE in stock but I have modded one (300 lumen model) to XPE2 but that was a while ago.
I don’t currently have any figures but the XP-P creates a more intense beam than my 219C/2.3A light and would likely very easily out do the EB1 200 lumen model.
Compared to the original E1D LED 300 lumens, the XP-P would definitely be brighter, hotspot tighter and throw considerably further.
Sorry I can’t give anything in the way of reasonable comparison or figures, but I can safely say that just going from the stock XPG2 to XPP is as big of a difference as you’d expect and the TIR plays well with the swap.

EDIT:

I added a light meter app to my phone and used a paper diffuser to get some measurements, take these for what they are.

All measurements taken at about 1 meter.
EB1 modded with 219C/2.3A driver: ~10Kcd
E1D modded with XP-P/stock driver: ~20Kcd
Convoy C8+ with XPL Hi/H17Fx: ~85Kcd
(EB1 head used on 2 cell body, 16650. E1D on single cell body, 16340).

This isn’t the most scientific but should give an idea.
For Surefire to get 71Kcd out of the new head the reflector must be great and must be pushing some serious amps out of a small cell (EDC1), can’t imagine it holding it for long.


----------



## desert.snake (Jul 11, 2022)

Thanks a lot for the measurements!

For the CR123 it shows 300 lm in the datasheet and 33Kcd, which is quite normal. 550 lm for 18350, but obviously not for long. It looks like it has a reflector the size of a fury, so candelas like that would be easily reached.


----------



## F89 (Jul 11, 2022)

desert.snake said:


> Thanks a lot for the measurements!
> 
> For the CR123 it shows 300 lm in the datasheet and 33Kcd, which is quite normal. 550 lm for 18350, but obviously not for long. It looks like it has a reflector the size of a fury, so candelas like that would be easily reached.


No worries.
I didn’t realise the reflector was bigger than the TIR of the E1D. Is the Fury reflector P60 sized or bigger? Looks a bit more substantial.
That should definitely make it easier to throw like that.
I’m guessing the XP-P with the stock E1D driver is putting out around 350 lumens or so? Either way, I’m more interested in my E1D since the XP-P.
With around 350 lumens and 20Kcd which it can hold until the battery is spent, it’s a nice little package.
I’ll have to see how it handles on CR123, the high Vf of the XP-P might not go so well?
It’s going great on 16340, I took some measurements with a battery I’d been using a fair bit and it still hit 20Kcd. The battery read about 3.4V when I took it out.
Surefire are hard to get where I’m from but I wouldn’t mind one of these EDC if they come to fruition. The current model Aviator, possibly in red or amber would be nice too.
Price and availability make it tough.


----------



## desert.snake (Jul 12, 2022)

F89 said:


> Is the Fury reflector P60 sized or bigger?


It's deeper and wider, if compare with 6PX



F89 said:


> Surefire are hard to get where I’m from but I wouldn’t mind one of these EDC if they come to fruition. The current model Aviator, possibly in red or amber would be nice too.
> Price and availability make it tough.


We have the same way. The current aviator is good, I like the yellow-green


----------



## F89 (Jul 12, 2022)

desert.snake said:


> It's deeper and wider, if compare with 6PX
> 
> 
> We have the same way. The current aviator is good, I like the yellow-green


I hadn’t given the yellow/green much thought, definitely wouldn’t go for the blue. 
The red or amber seemed more useful to me but the yellow/greens might be a good choice. 
I haven’t handled an Aviator, can you tell me what makes you prefer the yellow/green?


----------



## desert.snake (Jul 12, 2022)

F89 said:


> I haven’t handled an Aviator, can you tell me what makes you prefer the yellow/green?


Before never thought about yellow-green. When I had Onion rings for the tube aviator, I tried the yellow-green diodes that came with it. It looks like it's a blue LED with phosphor coated, not monochrome like red or others. It showed other colors well at close range. It's hard to explain, just a nice color at night for my eyes (everything is individual, as for example many people like amber)


----------



## tango44 (Aug 2, 2022)

August and still no lights...


----------



## Monocrom (Aug 2, 2022)

Seriously, best to just go about your Life. 
One day _sometime_ in the somewhat near future, someone will make a post about getting their hands on one. Otherwise, it's like waiting for a bus at an abandoned Stop that was cut off from service a week ago, but no one bothers to tell you, as you sit there and just wait.


----------



## Belkar (Aug 2, 2022)

Monocrom said:


> Seriously, best to just go about your Life.
> One day _sometime_ in the somewhat near future, someone will make a post about getting their hands on one. Otherwise, it's like waiting for a bus at an abandoned Stop that was cut off from service a week ago, but no one bothers to tell you, as you sit there and just wait.


----------



## aznsx (Aug 2, 2022)

Monocrom said:


> Seriously, best to just go about your Life.
> One day _sometime_ in the somewhat near future, someone will make a post about getting their hands on one. Otherwise, it's like waiting for a bus at an abandoned Stop that was cut off from service a week ago, but no one bothers to tell you, as you sit there and just wait.



Yeah, to me things are just vaporware until I see 'in stock' and a button that says 'add to cart'. I used to hang in another 'valley' (silicon) so I try to not to lose sleep over vaporware or I'd be an insomniac by now!


----------



## Slumber (Aug 5, 2022)

Big Tex Ordnance has the X300 Turbos in stock, perhaps the EDC1/2-DFT are just around the corner.


----------



## Belkar (Aug 5, 2022)

Slumber said:


> Big Tex Ordnance has the X300 Turbos in stock, perhaps the EDC1/2-DFT are just around the corner.



I still prefer my TLR-1 HL to the X300 any day.


----------



## fulee9999 (Aug 12, 2022)

Stardate 100212.76, the James Webb telescope is now operational, we have two rovers on the surface of Mars, still no signs of these things...


----------



## tango44 (Sep 3, 2022)

SEPTEMBER 2022 and still no lights...


----------



## bykfixer (Sep 4, 2022)

When it was said the price would be over $200, (I think I saw $299 somewhere) it caused me to not care if they ever arrive.


----------



## Monocrom (Sep 4, 2022)

tango44 said:


> SEPTEMBER 2022 and still no lights...


Would be nice if they arrived in time for Christmas. Though I'd bet on PK successfully cloning himself by then, before these lights come out.


----------



## aznsx (Sep 6, 2022)

bykfixer said:


> When it was said the price would be over $200, (I think I saw $299 somewhere) it caused me to not care if they ever arrive.



I was just at BJ and noted that they sell the Fury DFT (std) for $224 (and no, I'm not interested in one today). That does however suggest to me that new models might be expected to perhaps cost that much or more - $300 doesn't sound like a big stretch for SF in '22 (or '23, or...) if something is fancy and new.


----------



## desert.snake (Oct 8, 2022)

Tests of these turbo version for pistol are encouraging. If the same heads and drivers are in the manual version and work from 18650, then I will try to get a couple of pieces


----------



## tango44 (Oct 8, 2022)

October 2022 and still no lights.
I’m so happy with my Modlites Plhv2 that I don’t have interest on these now!


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 9, 2022)

Fingers crossed for Christmas.... of this year!


----------



## rwolfenstein (Oct 9, 2022)

October and still nothing. I would love to have the new EDC1, but nothing has come out. I guess the good thing is, they wont release a product that isnt tough as nails. I did see they put out a P1RZ and an Intellibeam version on their website.


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 9, 2022)

rwolfenstein said:


> October and still nothing. I would love to have the new EDC1, but nothing has come out. I guess the good thing is, they wont release a product that isn't tough as nails. I did see they put out a P1RZ and an Intellibeam version on their website.


At this stage, there's likely some sort of odd gremlin they're trying to find and fix. But who knows how long that'll take.


----------



## fulee9999 (Oct 28, 2022)

sooo... they still have these up on the website and still no sign of actual production units. 
does anyone have any news on these...?


----------



## Belkar (Oct 28, 2022)

I got tired of waiting and bought a Modlite OKW.


----------



## alnl1996 (Oct 28, 2022)

I bought the Cloud Defensive MCH. It's Surefire's loss.


----------



## Belkar (Oct 28, 2022)

alnl1996 said:


> I bought the Cloud Defensive MCH. It's Surefire's loss.


A couple hours after I bought the Modlite in Moss Green, the Could Defensice MCH HC in OD green went back in stock.

How do you like it?


----------



## knucklegary (Oct 28, 2022)

With recession looming come first quarter 2023. SF would be wise to introduce these lights ASAP.


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 29, 2022)

knucklegary said:


> With recession looming come first quarter 2023. SF would be wise to introduce these lights ASAP.


Or at least not announce them _decades_ in advance.


----------



## alnl1996 (Oct 30, 2022)

Belkar said:


> A couple hours after I bought the Modlite in Moss Green, the Could Defensice MCH HC in OD green went back in stock.
> 
> How do you like it?


The quality of this light exceeded my expectations. I decided to get the EDC with the dual mode because I prefer the neutral tint and I want to be able to use the light indoors.
The anodizing on this light so far has held up 100% in the past few months.. I'm very hard on my lights I also use them at work.
The best beam pattern of all my lights. Massive throw and a tonne of spill.
My version does not get too hot after an extended time, double click (or momentary) high comes on then gradually steps down after a few minutes to extend battery life.
One thing I've noticed is the light responds differently to different batteries and/or voltage.
The output may step down a bit quicker with cheaper batteries..for safety I guess.
I should note that the beam quality on a wall is perfect no artifacts whatsoever.
Overall I will purchase another from them maybe the HC model.


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## rwolfenstein (Oct 30, 2022)

I got a really good deal on a Haley Strategic/Surefire DFT. So I guess when surefire finally gets around to releasing the product, I will look at the reviews.


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## tango44 (Nov 2, 2022)

November 2022 and still no lights, looks like other Surefire projects that will never see the light...
Meanwhile I'm enjoying my Modlite lights...


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## Belkar (Nov 2, 2022)

tango44 said:


> November 2022 and still no lights, looks like other Surefire projects that will never see the light...
> Meanwhile I'm enjoying my Modlite lights...



Same. Just arrived today. Battery is charging, haven’t tested it yet.


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## Mister S (Nov 2, 2022)

SureFire SF18350 1100mAh 3.7V Protected Lithium Ion (Li-ion) Button Top Battery with Built-in Micro-USB Charging PortI see this battery is expected at Battery Junction on 12/15/22. Perhaps the lights will be out at that time or before.


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## Belkar (Nov 2, 2022)

Mister S said:


> SureFire SF18350 1100mAh 3.7V Protected Lithium Ion (Li-ion) Button Top Battery with Built-in Micro-USB Charging PortI see this battery is expected at Battery Junction on 12/15/22. Perhaps the lights will be out at that time or before.


Waiting for a Black Friday/Christmas release does make a bit of sense.


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## Monocrom (Nov 3, 2022)

SureFire is known for making great lights.... Not for, making sense.


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## Olumin (Nov 3, 2022)

I don't think surefire cares much anymore about their flashlight division, but mainly focuses on their weapon lights & suppressors. The days they were king of the hill are long over & their flashlights don't bring in the money anymore they used to. They still make a few good lights but mostly they're out of the game. Malkoff is now what surefire used to be, at least for hand-held flashlights.


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## WDR65 (Nov 3, 2022)

Olumin said:


> I don't think surefire cares much anymore about their flashlight division, but mainly focuses on their weapon lights & suppressors. The days they were king of the hill are long over & their flashlights don't bring in the money anymore they used to. They still make a few good lights but mostly they're out of the game. Malkoff is now what surefire used to be, at least for hand-held flashlights.


I disagree, they still have some innovative designs. I’m starting my third year carrying a Stiletto daily and I’ve not found a better EDC light and I have dozens of options. They don’t have as much legoability as the older designs and Malkoffs have but they’re still extremely well built and useful. Their newest TIR optics have some of the best throw/spill setups and I say that coming from owning an early 2000’s KL1 and trying to just about every E series and a few C and M series TIR lights. Sure they’re not the brightest or the one with the most modes but a lot of thought has gone into their designs. 



Back on topic based on the TURBO weaponlights showing up I imagine we’ll see these in the near future. I’m not hyped on the price and I don’t know if I have a need for one but that hasn’t stopped me in the past.


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## Belkar (Nov 3, 2022)

WDR65 said:


> I disagree, they still have some innovative designs. I’m starting my third year carrying a Stiletto daily and I’ve not found a better EDC light and I have dozens of options. They don’t have as much legoability as the older designs and Malkoffs have but they’re still extremely well built and useful. Their newest TIR optics have some of the best throw/spill setups and I say that coming from owning an early 2000’s KL1 and trying to just about every E series and a few C and M series TIR lights. Sure they’re not the brightest or the one with the most modes but a lot of thought has gone into their designs.
> 
> 
> 
> Back on topic based on the TURBO weaponlights showing up I imagine we’ll see these in the near future. I’m not hyped on the price and I don’t know if I have a need for one but that hasn’t stopped me in the past.



I may upgrade the light on my rifle if I find their turbo performs as promised. While I love my Modlite handheld, they seem to suck at switches - be they rifle or pistol. SureFire still wins there I think.


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## rwolfenstein (Nov 5, 2022)

P1RZ-B-DFT | Dual Fuel LED Combat Flashlight | SureFire


Type a description for this product here…




www.surefire.com





They may not have released what we wanted but they did a silent release of this.


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## Belkar (Nov 5, 2022)

rwolfenstein said:


> P1RZ-B-DFT | Dual Fuel LED Combat Flashlight | SureFire
> 
> 
> Type a description for this product here…
> ...


Is that what they call it? 😂 

I’m interested to handle one eventually.


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## rwolfenstein (Nov 5, 2022)

Belkar said:


> Is that what they call it? 😂
> 
> I’m interested to handle one eventually.


They also have the intellibeam version as well


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## Monocrom (Nov 5, 2022)

rwolfenstein said:


> They also have the intellibeam version as well


Oh Heck no! I want my lights stupid and obedient. 
Intelligent U.I.'s are the Devil's tiny minions.


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## desert.snake (Nov 9, 2022)

Belkar said:


> Is that what they call it? 😂
> 
> I’m interested to handle one eventually.



No it's just Fury, pretty wide beam not much further than 6PX and P1R

Turboheads appeared on the lights of scout 18650)) So it remains only to wait for new bodies with 2 modes of operation))









SureFire M640DFT Scout LED Weapon Light


The SureFire M640DFT weapon light outputs a max 550 lumens to illuminate your surroundings with ease. Free shipping is available at Battery Junction.




www.batteryjunction.com












SureFire M340DFT Scout Light Pro LED Weapon Light


The SureFire M340DFT Scout Light Pro LED Weapon Light is a weapon light designed with a max output of 550 lumens and 45 minute runtime.




www.batteryjunction.com


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## rwolfenstein (Nov 9, 2022)

I found a VTAC 2 cell surefire light. It gives me that focused kx2 head with 200 lumens at distance. I'm disappointed surefire hasn't come out with anything so I will be happy to find some old products to fit my needs.


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## thermal guy (Nov 9, 2022)

rwolfenstein said:


> P1RZ-B-DFT | Dual Fuel LED Combat Flashlight | SureFire
> 
> 
> Type a description for this product here…
> ...


How are they getting more output out of a 3.7 rechargeable then 2X123’s?


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## FPSRelic (Nov 29, 2022)

I'm getting the impression these lights will never se the light of day.


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## Belkar (Nov 29, 2022)

thermal guy said:


> How are they getting more output out of a 3.7 rechargeable then 2X123’s?


Anything is possible when you lie. 🤷‍♂️


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## rwolfenstein (Dec 1, 2022)

FPSRelic said:


> I'm getting the impression these lights will never se the light of day.


Or much like the P1R-Z model, it will randomly pop up and they won't make an announcement.


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## tango44 (Dec 1, 2022)

December 2022 and no lights, this one of those Surefire projects that never occurred.


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## rwolfenstein (Dec 1, 2022)

Surefire EDC1-DFT Dual Fuel Turbo LED Flashlight - Black


Surefire EDC1-DFT Dual Fuel Turbo LED Flashlight - Black




www.riflegear.com





Here's a weird thing, this website has it for sale and its out of stock.


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## desert.snake (Dec 1, 2022)

thermal guy said:


> How are they getting more output out of a 3.7 rechargeable then 2X123’s?


current, more current))

These lights will definitely appear, just have to wait))


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## Monocrom (Dec 1, 2022)

rwolfenstein said:


> Surefire EDC1-DFT Dual Fuel Turbo LED Flashlight - Black
> 
> 
> Surefire EDC1-DFT Dual Fuel Turbo LED Flashlight - Black
> ...


Unfortunately, a lot of online shops do that nonsense. They'll list something brand new that isn't even out yet, then list it as "Out of Stock." (Which I guess, technically it is.) Then take Pre-orders. If it comes out soon or later, they don't care! They've got your pre-order money. Or, if they're not taking Pre-orders, simply by listing the item on their site they know potential customers will bookmark the page. Then when the item does release, potential customers who bookmarked the page are more likely to return, and buy from them.


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## fulee9999 (Jan 3, 2023)

I just realized SureFire said this will release mid april, maybe they meant 2023 April... who knows, maybe we get lucky this year!


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## Dave D (Jan 3, 2023)

fulee9999 said:


> I just realized SureFire said this will release mid april, maybe they meant 2023 April... who knows, maybe we get lucky this year!


Hopefully there will be an update at the 2023 Shot show later this month.


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## CarpentryHero (Jan 3, 2023)

thermal guy said:


> How are they getting more output out of a 3.7 rechargeable then 2X123’s?


Amperage, two cr123 batteries are capable of 1.5 amps each, current 18650 batteries are capable of 8-10 amps with very little problem, imr batteries can double that.
Lithium primaries just don’t have the output of modern rechargeables


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## thermal guy (Jan 3, 2023)

CarpentryHero said:


> Amperage, two cr123 batteries are capable of 1.5 amps each, current 18650 batteries are capable of 8-10 amps with very little problem, imr batteries can double that.
> Lithium primaries just don’t have the output of modern rechargeables


Yes but you have way more volts with 2 primary cells


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## aznsx (Jan 3, 2023)

Practical Considerations - Batteries | Batteries And Power Systems | Electronics Textbook


Read about Practical Considerations - Batteries (Batteries And Power Systems) in our free Electronics Textbook




www.allaboutcircuits.com


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## bykfixer (Jan 3, 2023)

CarpentryHero said:


> Amperage, two cr123 batteries are capable of 1.5 amps each, current 18650 batteries are capable of 8-10 amps with very little problem, imr batteries can double that.
> Lithium primaries just don’t have the output of modern rechargeables


The EDCL-2T guzzled up to 5 amps 😱 from a pair of CR123's creating a warm feeling not unlike carrying a hand grenade with the pin pulled. 

That's why I was looking forward to these lights. Lots of throw with less than scarey draw from primary cells but.... for the price reported I'll be sitting on the sidelines.


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## thermal guy (Jan 3, 2023)

bykfixer said:


> The EDCL-2T guzzled up to 5 amps 😱 from a pair of CR123's creating a warm feeling not unlike carrying a hand grenade with the pin pulled.
> 
> That's why I was looking forward to these lights. Lots of throw with less than scarey draw from primary cells but.... for the price reported I'll be sitting on the sidelines.


This light pulls 5 amps??


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## CarpentryHero (Jan 3, 2023)

thermal guy said:


> Yes but you have way more volts with 2 primary cells


Fresh off the charger, an 18650 is 4.2 volts, depending on the led and driver you can muster up to a certain brightness off primaries but the voltage and amperage sag pretty quick do to low volume of energy. Voltage doesn’t matter as much as amperage, once you get up to the voltage you need to run the light. Running 6 volts in a 3 volt led, just causes additional heat in the circuit board as it compensates. 
By the time the voltage sags to where it’s not generating extra heat it doesn’t have enough amperage left to run the high lumens


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## bykfixer (Jan 3, 2023)

thermal guy said:


> This light pulls 5 amps??


That's what was said early in the 2T thread. It is said to settle down to like 600 or so lumens after a time as a thermal step down. All I know from experience is one cold night while in Blackburg VA I tried to see if the step down was noticeable. I kept it turned on until the whole **** light got warm like a slice of toast fresh out the toaster. I pulled the batteries out and stuck them in my jacket pocket to cool down and haven't used it since.


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## thermal guy (Jan 3, 2023)

Lol ya they say primary cells should draw no more than 1.5 amps.


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## aznsx (Jan 3, 2023)

thermal guy said:


> Lol ya they say primary cells should draw no more than 1.5 amps.


1.5A continuous. 3.5A 'pulse' (low duty cycle)



https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/123.pdf


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