# New Jetbeam M2S with SST-50 LED [+ Pics heavy]



## Dioni (Jan 27, 2010)

Well, as everyone can see, the BOG is offering a new Jetbeam's flashlight that uses LED SST-50: the *Jetbeam M2S*! 
What we know so far is the information taken from the site:

BOG link:
http://www.bugoutgearusa.com/m2s.html

CPF MP Thread link:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=212508




*Features:*

_Power Source: SST-50 LED_
_Max LED working current is 4A_
_Max Lumen: 1000 lumen (LED lumen)_
_Out the front lumen is approximately 750 lumen_
_Runtimes: Using 2* 18650 rechargeable batteries, compatible with both 4 *CR123 or 4 *RCR123 rechargeable Li-ion batteries, under max output condition the M2S can run for approximately 40 minutes._
*Functions:*


_User can switch the modes quickly by tightening/loosening the light bezel._
_Tightening the head for Max output (continuous use for 3 minutes and automatically switches to Mid mode)_
_Loosening the head for Mid mode - Low mode - 15HZ strobe_
*Pics:*

Standard






Pics by BOG from here.

M1X, M2S, RRT-3





Head/Body Comparison





Head/Body Comparison 2





Business End of M1X, M2S, RRT-3





Biz End of M1X, M2S, RRT-3 (RRT-3 has larger diameter, but may not seem so in pics)





M2S Vs. M1X





Trio 





More pics here: 
http://swiatelka.pl/viewtopic.php?p=35807


*Updates:*

01-28 => Info added
Member *jhc37013:*
_*"*From the bottom of the page of the link provided by OP at BOG's website it says:"_

**** 2 18650 can only be used with the optional battery extender ****

01-29 => Pics added
Pics by BOG added

02-03 => More Pics link added
Link found by Cooperl

Hopping for more updates... 

_Best regards_
_*Dioni*_


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## SureAddicted (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

Here's the not so great news...
*The M2S' built in circuit protection allows the user to run at the full output for 3 continuous minutes in High mode and then the M2S will automatically switch to Mid mode(450 lumen).
In Mid mode it can run for approximately 2 hours. *


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## Dioni (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



SureAddicted said:


> Here's the not so great news...
> *The M2S' built in circuit protection allows the user to run at the full output for 3 continuous minutes in High mode and then the M2S will automatically switch to Mid mode(450 lumen).*
> _*In Mid mode it can run for approximately 2 hours. *_


 
I also think so, but newest and brighter LEDs, just like many others, have heat problems. 

IMHO, This is the way that modern brands will have to do to offer powerful LED flashlights to the lay person about LED overheating. As Flavio said: "The light will only run for 3 minutes to protect it from damaging the LED".


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## bkumanski (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

It might not be so bad. I'm assuming when you turn off the light, it resets the 3 min timer. 450 is plenty for general use, and that burst may be long enough for most tasks needing the extra light. Even on traffic stops and building searches, I turn my light on and off frequently, so maybe you wouldn't even notice unless you do a runtime test. Just a thought.


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## SwarfWorks (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

JetBeam had one of these at the SHOT show, but it was in glass case so I'm not sure it was even functional.

They did have another prototype in there that uses the same LED, but could run full power for the whole battery life (no 3-minute intervals). It was however pretty huge. The whole body was just a bit smaller in diameter than the front bezel. I should have got a picture or at least a model number. He said it was more for military use...? 

I'd expect to see more on that coming soon. 

Paul


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## rayman (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

@Paul

What you are talking about is the new Raptor RRT-3 which uses 3x 18650 that's why it is so fat .

rayman


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## Dioni (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



SwarfWorks said:


> JetBeam had one of these at the SHOT show, but it was in glass case so I'm not sure it was even functional.
> 
> They did have another prototype in there that uses the same LED, but could run full power for the whole battery life (no 3-minute intervals). It was however pretty huge. The whole body was just a bit smaller in diameter than the front bezel. I should have got a picture or at least a model number. He said it was more for military use...?
> 
> ...


 
Aren't you talking about the RRT-3?


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## LowFlux (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

I'm still learning a lot about batteries, and I wonder about the M2S being able to be comfortably driven by RCR or primaries. It seems like most of the other lights in this class are 18650-only, with the high current I'd think the voltage sag on RCR/primaries could be a potential safety issue. In the very least you'd need to be extremely (even more so) cautious that all the batteries match at these voltages, if I am not mistaken.

Can anyone comment on this? 

If I got one I'd go 18650 only, for certain.


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## zs&tas (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

3 mins is plenty, dosnt sound like much but actually stand there and sweep a field / street / house. does not take 3 mins youl be left just waving it around like skywalker !
sounds good to me i like the shape, looks, UI im in


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## brianch (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

I think the 3 minutes idea is great. Honestly I rarely need that much lumens for long periods. I think it's great that JETBeam placed safety implements in the light. This just shows JETBeams dedication to making unique lights instead of just taking existing designs and parts and slapping them together. One of the reasons I really like JETBeam and Fenix over some of the other newer chinamade brands is because they actually come out with new lights. Other manufacturers just copy each other. I'm all for the new M2S, I just want some reviews to come out and gonna wait for the product to mature a bit before I jump on it. The Raptor-3 sounds interesting as well. I may just have to pick that up as well.


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## windstrings (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

The 3 minute thing is really the only way someone can release that light as still warranty it.

Too many people would leave it on continous and cause a meltdown and turn it in for warranty.

The alternative would be to not use the SST50.... I would rather have the option any day.. even if its limited.

I'm adding an extra two extension tubes to my M1X but I'm not even sure mine is compatible for the SST50 upgrade as mine is the second version.

BTW.. if anyone orders extension tubes.. make sure you ask Flavian at bugout which ones fit your light.... the newest tubes do not fit the older M1X's.. there is a thread mismatch.

Flavian is sending me a couple of the older extension tubes to see if they work ok.

Adding extension tubes is not a license to use the light longer or even keep turning it off and back on to reset the timer..... hot is hot and too hot is too hot.... extra batteries won't make it cooler!

Here is a pic of my older MIX.. if you notice the fins, they are different than the one depicted in the posted picture above.

Note the notches in the first 3 rings... you can put your thumb in them... if yours looks like this, it is the older model..... 
Only Flavian can answer as to whether these will accept a SST50 upgrade.


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## recDNA (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



SureAddicted said:


> Here's the not so great news...
> *The M2S' built in circuit protection allows the user to run at the full output for 3 continuous minutes in High mode and then the M2S will automatically switch to Mid mode(450 lumen).*
> _*In Mid mode it can run for approximately 2 hours. *_


 

I was really excited until I saw that 3 min thing. I don't think this will be a hit. 10 min would be OK.


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## Cuso (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

Is there a flashlight with the same led that will sustain this output for more than 3 minutes???


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## berry580 (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

looks like max mode is more of a "bonus".
The real gain is the extension of runtime on medium mode, which pretty much apparently M1X's max mode.

M1X is "searchlight", I wonder what purpose would Jetbeam advertise this light as.... :rollineyes:


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## windstrings (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

The limiting factor to ever using these SST's in the first place is heat.
The SST90s even melt the connectors feeding the LED.

Unless we don't want the extra brightness, there has to be a time limit.

If we make the lights bigger with more heat fins that may fix it... but who wants gigantic lights just for the sake of heat sinking?

We can use some of our battery power for peltier coolers and or fans... but then that compromises water resistance.

Even with a peltier cooler, it has to have a place to "put" the heat or it does little.

Its merely a "turbo" mode... not mean't to be used continuous any more than a constant feed of Nitrous is supposed to be fed to a funny car engine.

Even when using solid copper to conduct heat, we still get a limited time.

Until we find a cooler LED or a way to dissipate the heat,
It is what it is.....

If anybody has a better solution, I'm sure everybody is all ears....


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## brianch (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

Is 4amps being fed to the M2S in turbo mode? If so, is there any other production SST-50 light that is running at 4amps? For those who don't like the time restraint, wait for the RRT-3. I believe I read that the RRT-3 will not have the time restraint like the M2S. The reason being the RRT-3 is a larger light and therefore has increased heat sinking capabilities. The disadvantage being that the RRT-3 is going to be larger and heavier. The M2S has a thin body tube and though the head is large, there is still not enough heatsinking mass. I don't think we will see a best of both worlds here yet and have it function safely. What was said about the warranty is true. I don't think we will see other manufacturers offer a warranty and leave it to the user to burn out the light. This just an example of JETBeam covering their own @ss.


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## DimeRazorback (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

I think I will wait for more efficient LED's for a big output light like this. Or just get one of the massive ones with better heat sinking.

There is no point imo to have a light that you can only use High for a certain amount of time.

Imagine using it in the field, identifying your target, and then the light drops it output by 50% :shrug:

May aswell just use my current M1X on "high" the entire time...

Don't get me wrong, I think it is awesome, and contemplated putting one on pre-order.


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## brianch (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



DimeRazorback said:


> I think I will wait for more efficient LED's for a big output light like this. Or just get one of the massive ones with better heat sinking.
> 
> There is no point imo to have a light that you can only use High for a certain amount of time.
> 
> ...


+1 on more efficient emitters

It depends how you look at it. I am looking at this as an upgraded M1X with slightly higher output, should be better beam, and as an added bonus a really bright turbo mode. And all for only $40 more then the M1X ($30 more technically if you consider the $10 for the extender on the M1X). If I was starting over I would buy this over the M1X. Of course I already have the M1X so this is just tempting me.. It's hard to justify if you already have the M1X, but if you don't have the M1X or was thinking about getting the M1X this M2S seems like a great deal. It doesn't REALLY break your bank. With the code the final price isn't too substantial considering what it is. Until a similar competitor puts out a light in the same category and the same quality I think the M2S is the only one filling out this little gap in the flashlight lineup. All the other SST-50 lights I've seen are not bad but knowing the quality of JETBeam lights from previous lights, I can say this light should be up there in terms of build quality. I can't say the same for OTHER SST-50 lights I've played with.


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## DimeRazorback (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



brianch said:


> if you don't have the M1X or was thinking about getting the M1X this M2S seems like a great deal.




Excellent point! :thumbsup:


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## bullettproof (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

My Catapult is 3A the revised version and its only warm after 30 minutes. They need to work on this 3 minutes is to short of run time on hi.


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## brianch (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

I'm still on the wire on this one though. I am just afraid that if I buy it, a revision will come out soon to fix issues. Not that all manufacturers are free from this. I am not the kind to purchase lights upon release.. But JETBeam lights are my favorite and this is really tempting me.. I will most likely wait it out a few months before I actually buy it though. If anything the newer revisions will be more efficient... And if not then I guess I missed out on a few months of pissing off my neighbors.


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## brianch (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



bullettproof said:


> My Catapult is 3A the revised version and its only warm after 30 minutes. They need to work on this 3 minutes is to short of run time on hi.


I think internally that SST-50 at 3amps is much hotter then you think. The heat might not be getting to the body efficiently. My experience playing with a SST-50 at full power in a P60 module tells me that it gets HOT much faster then an MC-E or P7 at full power. I don't know the exact temperature where the light is considered too hot to be safe but I couldn't pick up the SST-50 P60 after 30 seconds of it being on. It can't be good for the light. I do agree though that 3 minutes is a bit too conservative for my liking. They should consider moving it to 10 minutes or more.


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## SureAddicted (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



brianch said:


> I think internally that SST-50 at 3amps is much hotter then you think. The heat might not be getting to the body efficiently. My experience playing with a SST-50 at full power in a P60 module tells me that it gets HOT much faster then an MC-E or P7 at full power. I don't know the exact temperature where the light is considered too hot to be safe but I couldn't pick up the SST-50 P60 after 30 seconds of it being on. It can't be good for the light. I do agree though that 3 minutes is a bit too conservative for my liking. They should consider moving it to 10 minutes or more.



The big difference between your SST-50 dropin and the Catapult is that the later has more surface area to dissipate the heat, plus adequate heat seaking, which is probably a lot more than your P60 host. 
3 minutes is way to conservative, If it was around 10 mins it would be better. The cooling fins do look beefy, I wonder if they are being overly cautious. I'm not aware of any MC-E lights with a timer on it, nor any other light for that matter.


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## grunscga (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



LowFlux said:


> I'm still learning a lot about batteries, and I wonder about the M2S being able to be comfortably driven by RCR or primaries. It seems like most of the other lights in this class are 18650-only, with the high current I'd think the voltage sag on RCR/primaries could be a potential safety issue. In the very least you'd need to be extremely (even more so) cautious that all the batteries match at these voltages, if I am not mistaken.
> 
> Can anyone comment on this?



Ooo, I like maths! (and, I'm curious about this myself) Let's see, the emitter is going to need about 14W (3.5V @ 4A).

4 RCR123s running at 1.5A (max safe current) is 25.2W @4.2V (fully charged), 21.6W @3.6V ("discharged"), and 15W @2.5V (dead). Chop 15% off for waste in the buck circuitry and you're at ~21W, ~18W, and ~13W. So, yes, 4x RCR123s should put out plenty of power within the normal voltage range, but they will quickly kill themselves (permanently) if you let them go too low (assuming perfect regulation that always feeds 14W to the emitter). Protected RCRs are very important to prevent issues with 1 dead and 3 charged batteries.

4 CR123As start at 3V each and have approximately the same "safe" max current, so there you start at 18W * 85% = ~15W, and you head downhill from there as the voltage sags. My guess is that the runtime curve on 4xCR123As is not going to be pretty if you want to run on max ("ski slope" comes to mind), but the 3 minute limit might help that some. As far as needing to use balanced cells, talk to the incan guys about how wise it is to stuff 3 live and 1 dead CR123As into a high-draw light.   

Personally, I like having the _option_ of running on primaries, but would personally consider this a (protected) Li-Ion only light, except in emergencies. Also, I would probably try to avoid long runs on max if using CR123As.

18650s and their 4A max are obviously going to be fine. (~29W available on a full charge, even after circuit losses)


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## brianch (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



SureAddicted said:


> The big difference between your SST-50 dropin and the Catapult is that the later has more surface area to dissipate the heat, plus adequate heat seaking, which is probably a lot more than your P60 host.
> 3 minutes is way to conservative, If it was around 10 mins it would be better. The cooling fins do look beefy, I wonder if they are being overly cautious. I'm not aware of any MC-E lights with a timer on it, nor any other light for that matter.



Yea I wouldn't mind if they extended it to 10minutes but I do believe placing a time restriction on the turbo mode is worth doing. Protects ignorant users from damaging their lights. We will see if there is a revised version with a longer run period.


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## DimeRazorback (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



brianch said:


> Yea I wouldn't mind if they extended it to 10minutes but I do believe placing a time restriction on the turbo mode is worth doing. Protects ignorant users from damaging their lights. We will see if there is a revised version with a longer run period.



Exactly, unless Jetbeam know something about the SST-50 that other manufacturers don't, I don't think I will ever understand such a small time bracket.


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## jhc37013 (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

It kinda sucks the extender tube is sold and I assume packaged separately. I hope the non-flashaholics of the world read the details and pick up on it so they can enjoy the lights full potential.


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## brianch (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

I don't think the M2S uses an extension tube. It runs on 2x18650s out of the box. 

Now where are more pictures... I need more pictures!


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## jhc37013 (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

From the bottom of the page of the link provided by OP at BOG's website it says

**** 2 18650 can only be used with the optional battery extender ***

*Maybe I am misreading it but that's how interpretate it.


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## gooseman (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

I don't understand why manufacturer's provide time limits for maximum outputs, it seems there are better alternatives.

Why not regulate on *both current and temperature*? A thermistor could provide feedback to the regulator so that it can adjust the max current at a safe temperature. Possibly even better, current temperature *and* the rate of temperature difference w/respect to time should be considered. Its been a while since I did circuit design, but it does not seem like it would be expensive or difficult to design.

With the current scheme, what if I am in Arizona during the summer? The ambient temp is 95' at night time. Is 3 minutes safe enough? What about in the winter? Its probably too conservative.

If somebody is going to fry the thing, they'll just put it on turbo again once the light goes to a lower setting, unless that is timed also. And then you have the same problem again, how long to wait until allowing the user to put the light on high again?


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## brianch (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

Thats strange all the runtime and compatibility specs say 2x18650 or 4xcr123a... Oh well I guess we gotta wait to find out more.. This light is now available for preorder at lightjunction and tactical leds as well !


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## brianch (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

Heres the product description from tacticalleds.com 



> The newest JETBeam M2S is designed with the latest SST-50 LED. The SST-50 produces an amazing 1000 lumens from 2 18650 rechargable batteries or 4 CR123A Lithium batteries.
> 
> Out the front lumen is approximately 750 lumen
> 
> ...


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## jhc37013 (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



brianch said:


> Thats strange all the runtime and compatibility specs say 2x18650 or 4xcr123a



Yep that is what I was thinking they usually show runtime/output right out of box with no extender tube and then show performance with it also.


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## brianch (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



gooseman said:


> I don't understand why manufacturer's provide time limits for maximum outputs, it seems there are better alternatives.
> 
> Why not regulate on *both current and temperature*? A thermistor could provide feedback to the regulator so that it can adjust the max current at a safe temperature. Possibly even better, current temperature *and* the rate of temperature difference w/respect to time should be considered. Its been a while since I did circuit design, but it does not seem like it would be expensive or difficult to design.
> 
> ...


I think you should work for JETBeam =D

Because obviously the engineers at JETBeam don't know how to :naughty:


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## gooseman (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



brianch said:


> I think you should work for JETBeam =D
> 
> Because obviously the engineers at JETBeam don't know how to :naughty:



I would bet that the engineers at JetBeam know how to do this; there must be some unknown (to me) factor preventing its realization. The engineers who designed the nice IBS regulator for the Jet I Pro V3 know that they are doing 

So JetBeam, as your external designs are a work of art, up the ante and make your SST-50 regulator one also:naughty:


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## LowFlux (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



grunscga said:


> Ooo, I like maths! (and, I'm curious about this myself)


grunscga, thanks for this contribution! (Plus you've given me some math proof I can use for future inquiries) :wave:


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## windstrings (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

We all know surface temp is what determine how many lumens are emitted from a given surface.

From the little I know about LEDs and especially SST's, it seems the SST's are hot running little devils! :devil:

As with everything.. there are curves.... the SSTs apparently produce more heat than can be immediately dissipated efficiently unless you dial them back and don't drive them as hard.

To the degree we can dissipate heat will determine how hard we can drive them.

I think manufacturers get nervous when people start adding cells to raise the voltage "even though it will handle it" because that allows a tad more amperage to pass "I would think"..... even through a regulated circuit?

Even if we start making quad type die's in the sense we stack them next to each other, they may cook each other and we would need a much bigger reflector to pass the lumens and lots or orange peel to help smooth out the pattern.

Seems we just need a more efficient LED that runs cooler.... humm...


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## zs&tas (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

so, how would this compare to the wolfeyes whale then ?


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## 289 (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

Nice light, if all of my other jeatbeams are any indication then this thing will be great.

Bummer that it is a twisty, for me that is a deal breaker.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

It looks awesome, but I'd rather use my incans or HID for high output, as they have no heat restrictions.


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## StandardBattery (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

Put the SST-50 in the RRT-3 body... that would interest me... this one.... not I just don't like the long narrow body tubes and a light like this needs at least 2x18650.


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## HKJ (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



windstrings said:


> We all know surface temp is what determine how many lumens are emitted from a given surface.



That is only valid for incan, other technologies like leds and fluorescent does not depend on temperature.


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## supergravy (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

Thank you for pointing this out. Nothing was mentioned in the marketplace thread that would indicate it to be anything but a 4xcr123 or 2x18650 light as delivered. I ordered one on the day of announcement and now wish I hadn't.

I didn't notice the quoted note at the time of order and question if it was even there at that point. :thinking:

So thanks again for bringing this to our attention.




jhc37013 said:


> From the bottom of the page of the link provided by OP at BOG's website it says
> 
> **** 2 18650 can only be used with the optional battery extender ***
> 
> *Maybe I am misreading it but that's how interpretate it.


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## brianch (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



289 said:


> Nice light, if all of my other jeatbeams are any indication then this thing will be great.
> 
> Bummer that it is a twisty, for me that is a deal breaker.



Where is that stated?


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## Dioni (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> It looks awesome, but I'd rather use my incans or HID for high output, as they have no heat restrictions.


 
Me too! :laughing:


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## Dioni (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



supergravy said:


> Thank you for pointing this out. Nothing was mentioned in the marketplace thread that would indicate it to be anything but a 4xcr123 or 2x18650 light as delivered. I ordered one on the day of announcement and now wish I hadn't.
> 
> I didn't notice the quoted note at the time of order and question if it was even there at that point. :thinking:
> 
> So thanks again for bringing this to our attention.


 
Interesting this pointing. 

From the point that the M2S body is very similar to the M1X (and AFAIK it is almost the same unless for the screws on the head), it really should be a 2x18500 tube. However, I don't believe that either the CR123A nor 18500 can withstand the 4A current during the burst time period.

If I am correct on my conclusions, it would be a bad thing.


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## brianch (Jan 29, 2010)

*Re: New Jetbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

For those following this light there are more photos of this light plus the RRT-3 up on flavios CPFM thread.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=212508


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## grunscga (Jan 29, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



Dioni said:


> However, I don't believe that either the CR123A nor 18500 can withstand the 4A current during the burst time period.



2x 18500s should be fine, although I'm too lazy to do the math to prove it.

3x RCRs is also ok, but starting to push the limits of the batteries.

3x CR123As, on the other hand, basically gives you a $180 road-flare-waiting-to-happen, as far as I can tell. Maybe if you only use the shrink-wrapped factory-balanced triple-CR123A sets that some places sell you'll be ok. Or, you have to be super-vigilant in only using 3 brand-new, same-batch batteries. :shrug:

(I already did the math for the last two assertions in the Marketplace Thread.)


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## photonstorm (Jan 29, 2010)

*Re: New Jetbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



brianch said:


> For those following this light there are more photos of this light plus the RRT-3 up on flavios CPFM thread.
> 
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=212508


 
thanks Bri


----------



## Linger (Jan 29, 2010)

*Re: New Jetbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*

there's a whole whack of modder's and builders who have pushed +5A through -50's and -90's. It's a very resilient chip.

Contra the popular notion it produces more heat, only with more light as it is more efficient then mc-e / p7 thus *less waste heat* per lumen.

JETBeam's doing this for their own reasons, totally fine. It won't be too long before someone hacks the driver anyway.
For a lot of people who have used these emitters in more demanding configurations, with a good thermal path it'll hold up no problem.

Batteries though, 4A is pushing the 'C' rate on a lot of cells. The main limit, imho, is the power supply. With-out the option of IMR 26500's or big nimh cells, the thinner 18xxx configuration and the inherent hire resistance means this light could play hell on the cycle life of all but the most resillient (re:IMR) cells. That's my conclusion:

The 3min 'burst' protects the power supply.


----------



## Dioni (Jan 29, 2010)

*Re: New Jetbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



brianch said:


> For those following this light there are more photos of this light plus the RRT-3 up on flavios CPFM thread.
> 
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=212508


 
Thanks! 
I posted it in first post! :thumbsup:


----------



## Dioni (Jan 29, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



grunscga said:


> 2x 18500s should be fine, although I'm too lazy to do the math to prove it.
> 
> 3x RCRs is also ok, but starting to push the limits of the batteries.
> 
> ...


 
Friend, I brought your post to here. 



grunscga said:


> I'm not sure where you get 3C from on 3x16340. The emitter (3.5V worst case) gets 4A, which is 14W. If the buck circuit wastes 15% of the power fed to it, then we need 14*1.15 = 16.1W of input power. 3 RCRs means each one needs to deliver ~5.37W. At 4.2V, that would put the current at 1.28A, which is below 2C. Even at 3.6V, the current would be ~1.5A, which is the safe max. Of course, if you do let it drop further, you're in trouble, as at 2.5V, the draw is over 2.1A. So, as long as the user is careful, 3xRCR should work ok, but unprotected batteries will fall into a death spiral as their voltage drops off (unless the light falls out of regulation at 10.8V, thus becoming an unregulated light on 18650s).
> 
> The real problem is primaries. 3x CR123As starts with a draw of ~1.8A for each battery, well over the "safe" threshold, and (if the regulation circuit keeps regulating) pushes the current to ~2.7A at 2.0V. At that current, unless I'm mistaken, you're one partially discharged CR123A* away from holding an aluminum-bodied road flare. I'm surprised that Jetbeam is willing to accept that kind of liability...
> 
> * If accidentally mixed with 2 fresh ones


 
Sorry to insist on the matter and if I'm wrong, but using 3xRCR [li-ion 750mAh] in series we still have 750mAh, don't? Or do you mean that the more voltage less amperage is needed to produce these "4ah" to fed the emitter?

Thanks for your patience!


----------



## HKJ (Jan 29, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



Dioni said:


> Or do you mean that the more voltage less amperage is needed to produce these "4ah" to fed the emitter?



Exactly, with a buck/boost driver you need to calculate watt, i.e. the emitter needs 3.3 volt @ 4A -> 14 watt.
Then to calculate current from any battery configuration, we need to divide with the battery voltage and number of batteries.
2 batteries 14 / 3.3 / 2 -> 2.12 A
3 batteries 14 / 3.3 / 3 -> 1.41 A
4 batteries 14 / 3.3 / 4 -> 1.06 A

I have used 3.3 volt for the battery, this is the value for a nearly empty battery (See here for actual voltage on some 18650 batteries)
Because the driver is less than 100% effective, it is necessary to add 10% to 20% to the above currents to get the real current.


----------



## Dioni (Jan 29, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



HKJ said:


> Exactly, with a buck/boost driver you need to calculate watt, i.e. the emitter needs 3.3 volt @ 4A -> 14 watt.
> The to calculate current from any battery configuration, we need to divide with the battery voltage and number of batteries.
> 2 batteries 14 / 3.3 / 2 -> 2.12 A
> 3 batteries 14 / 3.3 / 3 -> 1.41 A
> ...


 
Well that explains everything :thumbsup:
Thanks for the confirmation and for your excelent li-ion comparison thread!


----------



## sqchram (Jan 29, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



windstrings said:


> If anybody has a better solution, I'm sure everybody is all ears....



Heat pipes from a compact copper heatsink behind the emitter to the grip or tail where it disperses to another conductive array.


----------



## Dioni (Jan 31, 2010)

Talking about the 18mm cells, will the AW2600 fit fine in the M2S?


----------



## FlashlightsNgear.com (Jan 31, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



jhc37013 said:


> It kinda sucks the extender tube is sold and I assume packaged separately. I hope the non-flashaholics of the world read the details and pick up on it so they can enjoy the lights full potential.


I agree, the extender should come with the M2S, their is plenty of room in the box to add it in as a complete package. 
Dioni, the AW's should fit fine


----------



## grunscga (Jan 31, 2010)

They'll fit, but will the flat-top cells work? Is there a spring on the + contact in the light?


----------



## maskman (Jan 31, 2010)

Could it be this easy? Since 2/5/10, or sooner is the projected shipping date I'll spill my thoughts. Most timers, but not all, reset themselves to zero when turned off. Could it be so simple as turning the M2S off momentarily prior to allowing automatic power reduction? Obviously, I don't have the answer to that question since I don't have an M2S in hand, but I hope one of the first new owners tries. If that does work it would be an acceptable work around for me. I can't think of a situation that I as a civilian could get into that wouldn't allow me to turn my flashlight off momentarily after two minutes and fifty eight seconds. My only delima would be asking myself how many times do I want to do this before I risk burning my warranty up? Anyway, how about one of you lucky guys trying it and reporting back to the less fortunate? Thanks!


----------



## Dioni (Jan 31, 2010)

grunscga said:


> They'll fit, but will the flat-top cells work? Is there a spring on the + contact in the light?


 
Exactly, that is the question!


----------



## brianch (Jan 31, 2010)

Dioni said:


> Exactly, that is the question!



I believe the JETBeam lights have the raised + contact.


----------



## Dioni (Jan 31, 2010)

grunscga said:


> They'll fit, but will the flat-top cells work? Is there a spring on the + contact in the light?


 
Well, as we can see in the 3rd pic in OP, there is not any spring. Altough...



brianch said:


> I believe the JETBeam lights have the raised + contact.


 
indeed, the + contact looks has raised. Just to remember: Does AW 2600mah have the 3 nipples on the negative, right?


----------



## windstrings (Jan 31, 2010)

I was scraching a hole in my head considering the purchase of the M2S until discovered and ordered one of these.

I don't know what came over me.... I think it had something to do with 2200 lumens and no time limit "70mins" with a 6 hour runtime at 700 lumens.
Price includes 6 balanced 18650 batteries "in proprietary pack" and charger.



> •Utilizes Luminus SST-90 LED, 30W, lifetime 60,000 hours.
> •Output & Runtime: Two brightness levels and strobe mode
> •(1). High Mode: 2200 Lumens / 70Minutes
> •(2). Low Mode: 700 Lumens / 6 Hours
> ...


----------



## guiri (Feb 1, 2010)

As far as I'm concerned, this light is the perfect example why we need a thicker battery that's more like a c cell in thickness.

It would look so much better with thicker and shorter body.


----------



## zs&tas (Feb 1, 2010)

I want all my lights to run of batterys avaliable in most shops in case it hits the fan, this light is ideal for me, the other big lights are great but useless if i cant fuel them with cr123's.
why dont they just stack six cells side by side. would be better for the cells and prolly make a nice size light.


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## coolperl (Feb 3, 2010)

One of our local dealers, already have the M2S :nana:

You can see more nice pics here:
http://swiatelka.pl/viewtopic.php?p=35807


----------



## brianch (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks for the link. Some mighty fine pictures there. I actually like the shape and design of the head. I initially thought the design was strange but after seeing it from other angles I find the head to be quite attractive.

OK SOMEONE EMAIL JETBEAM AND TELL THEM THEIR SPELLING FOR TACTICAL IS WRONG ON THE M2S TUBE!


----------



## Dioni (Feb 3, 2010)

coolperl said:


> One of our local dealers, already have the M2S :nana:
> 
> You can see more nice pics here:
> http://swiatelka.pl/viewtopic.php?p=35807


 
Thanks for the link.. nice pics!


----------



## coolperl (Feb 3, 2010)

To tease you guys a little more... :naughty:

This 3-minute limit for high mode seems to work only on time basis. If the flashlight change mode from high to medium after 3 minutes, you can turn it off/on again and get another 3 minutes on high. But after a couple such cycles on high, it gets pretty warm...


----------



## supergravy (Feb 3, 2010)

brianch said:


> OK SOMEONE EMAIL JETBEAM AND TELL THEM THEIR SPELLING FOR TACTICAL IS WRONG ON THE M2S TUBE!



Classic! Gives me a chuckle when this happens on a cheap DX light but I would be ticked off on a light like this. Maybe it is on purpose and "tatical" is a new term for the lights that crank the power down after 3 minutes on high? 

The announcement of this light excited me to no end but after missing product descriptions (at debut, now corrected), timed output limits, a dealer that frustrated me and typos on the light itself I am happy to be out. The Catapult that I bought on the rebound has turned out to be awesome!


----------



## 289 (Feb 3, 2010)

*Re: New Jeatbeam M2S with SST-50 LED*



brianch said:


> Where is that stated?


 
From the specs:

_*Functions:
User can switch the modes quickly by tightening/loosening the light bezel.
Tightening the head for Max output (continuous use for 3 minutes and automatically switches to Mid mode)
Loosening the head for Mid mode - Low mode - 15HZ strobe*_


----------



## BugOutGear_USA (Feb 3, 2010)

For those that asked...

Here is some info on M2S' High Mode Protection:

The SST-50 LED emits a large amount of heat at this setting. This heat may reduce the lifespan of the LED, so after 3 continuous minutes in Max Brightness Mode, the M2S' built-in temperature protection circuit will automatically activate and enter protection mode, which will reduce the output to approx. 480 lumens (Mid Mode). If the user wants to resume Max Brightness Mode they can turn off the M2S and turn back on again, the light will resume Max output.

Hope the helps answer some of the questions.

Regards,
Flavio
BugoutGearUSA.com
JETBeam USA
888-221-5498


----------



## gooseman (Feb 3, 2010)

BugOutGear_USA said:


> For those that asked...
> 
> Here is some info on M2S' High Mode Protection:
> 
> ...



I'm likely in the minority here, but I would have been more excited if JetBeam updated their M1X with an SST-50 that lived well within its thermal limitations, offering better throw and efficiency than the current M1X, without the fail-safe timer. Maybe a M1X v5 :naughty:.

Would JetBeam comment on the highest ambient temperature at which their fail-safe mechanism will still protect the LED? If its 95'F, will this mechanism still prevent the LED from overheating?


----------



## guiri (Feb 3, 2010)

The chinese in general would do well to consult with their american reps before printing anything because they do come out looking pretty stupid for something as simple as a flashlight brochure


----------



## houtex (Feb 3, 2010)

BugOutGear_USA said:


> For those that asked...
> 
> Here is some info on M2S' High Mode Protection:
> 
> ...


 
So will it continue to go into safe mode every 3 minutes or can it be overiden just once?


----------



## houtex (Feb 3, 2010)

I also found dome new cool pics of it here. In two colors.
http://www.ohled.com/board/forum.asp?rn=20100204009


----------



## grunscga (Feb 3, 2010)

gooseman said:


> Would JetBeam comment on the highest ambient temperature at which their fail-safe mechanism will still protect the LED? If its 95'F, will this mechanism still prevent the LED from overheating?



I don't work for Jetbeam, but I suspect that _your_ goose would be cooked long before the LED's. Someone already mentioned (either here or in the Marketplace thread) that they thought the time limit was to protect the batteries rather than the emitter. After running the numbers, I think they're right. Unless the M2S has spectacularly efficient circuitry, it will end up pulling ~1800mA from each CR123A, even fresh @ 3V. As soon as they drop to 2.5V each, if the light stays in regulation it will be drawing ~2150mA from each battery. Most CR123A manufacturers state that the max safe continuous draw is 1500mA, so I'm betting that the 3 minute time limit is to keep the draw from being "continuous". Anyone using the extension with 4x CR123As or 2x 18650s will be ok current-wise, but since Jetbeam didn't go with a four battery body tube, they need to account for the "lowest common denominator".


----------



## Partywaggin (Feb 3, 2010)

grunscga said:


> I don't work for Jetbeam, but I suspect that _your_ goose would be cooked long before the LED's. Someone already mentioned (either here or in the Marketplace thread) that they thought the time limit was to protect the batteries rather than the emitter. After running the numbers, I think they're right. Unless the M2S has spectacularly efficient circuitry, it will end up pulling ~1800mA from each CR123A, even fresh @ 3V. As soon as they drop to 2.5V each, if the light stays in regulation it will be drawing ~2150mA from each battery. Most CR123A manufacturers state that the max safe continuous draw is 1500mA, so I'm betting that the 3 minute time limit is to keep the draw from being "continuous". Anyone using the extension with 4x CR123As or 2x 18650s will be ok current-wise, but since Jetbeam didn't go with a four battery body tube, they need to account for the "lowest common denominator".



I'm no CS major and the voltage for lights is _way_ too low, but it would seem to me that all would be needed would a few more lines of code in the IC's to give commands to the regulator override the 3 minute lockout if it detected the proper voltage, etc. 

Wes


----------



## grunscga (Feb 3, 2010)

The problem is that with the many possible combinations of batteries, there is no "proper voltage", because "safe" and "unsafe" overlap. For example:

3x CR123A [needs timer] = 7.5V - 9V (or lower, if you really run them down)
4x CR123A [pretty much needs timer = 10V - 12V
2x 18650 [no timer] = 7V - 8.4V
3x 16340 [no timer] = 10.5V - 12.6V


----------



## gooseman (Feb 4, 2010)

grunscga said:


> I don't work for Jetbeam, but I suspect that _your_ goose would be cooked long before the LED's. Someone already mentioned (either here or in the Marketplace thread) that they thought the time limit was to protect the batteries rather than the emitter. After running the numbers, I think they're right. Unless the M2S has spectacularly efficient circuitry, it will end up pulling ~1800mA from each CR123A, even fresh @ 3V. As soon as they drop to 2.5V each, if the light stays in regulation it will be drawing ~2150mA from each battery. Most CR123A manufacturers state that the max safe continuous draw is 1500mA, so I'm betting that the 3 minute time limit is to keep the draw from being "continuous". Anyone using the extension with 4x CR123As or 2x 18650s will be ok current-wise, but since Jetbeam didn't go with a four battery body tube, they need to account for the "lowest common denominator".



Sorry, I missed that … it seems plausible. I guess the question in my mind is, "3" seems arbitrary for any reason (protecting the emitter, or the batteries, or my goose I guess it could be a carefully engineered safety margin … 

But if the battery manufacturer's are saying don't drain the batteries over a certain C, who came up with "well, its OK to do this for 3 minutes?". If the battery manufacturers mention this in their data sheets, then maybe its OK.

Without the appropriate feedback loops in the system, it is suboptimal because the light really has no idea how hot it is, or how well behaved my batteries are.

I still think that if the light is pushing certain components close to the point of failure, it would be better if they incorporated temperature or whatever variable necessitating this limitation into the feedback of the control system.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 4, 2010)

grunscga said:


> I don't work for Jetbeam, but I suspect that _your_ goose would be cooked long before the LED's. *Someone already mentioned (either here or in the Marketplace thread) that they thought the time limit was to protect the batteries rather than the emitter.* After running the numbers, I think they're right. Unless the M2S has spectacularly efficient circuitry, it will end up pulling ~1800mA from each CR123A, even fresh @ 3V. As soon as they drop to 2.5V each, if the light stays in regulation it will be drawing ~2150mA from each battery. *Most CR123A manufacturers state that the max safe continuous draw is 1500mA, so I'm betting that the 3 minute time limit is to keep the draw from being "continuous"*. Anyone using the extension with 4x CR123As or 2x 18650s will be ok current-wise, but since Jetbeam didn't go with a four battery body tube, they need to account for the "lowest common denominator".


 
That's total horsecrap! Have you ever used a powerful tactical-incandescent flashlight in you life, or a HID? A basic SureFire 9P or C3 with the standard P90 lamp assembly gets scorching hot after 10 minutes of continues run. With HOLA bulbs, you can't even touch them after 3 minutes. And yet, SureFire has never put any kind of cell overheating warning on any flashlight or flashlight manual or brochure in its 30-year history. A LOT of SureFire lights draw more than 2A, sometimes 2.7A from each CR123A cell with no issues. Do you know "C" rule? A typical lithium cell can handle up to 2C, a good quality CR123 is rated at 1500mAh = x2C = 3000mAh. But most cell manufacturers will say 2500mAh just to be on the safe side.
The emitter itself, is precisely the reason any half-assed manufacturer would put any kind of continous runtime-limit on a flashlight.

My point is, why are you making all this stuff up if you obviously don't know what you are talking about?


----------



## grunscga (Feb 4, 2010)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> That's total horsecrap! Have you ever used a powerful tactical-incandescent flashlight in you life, or a HID? [...] My point is, why are you making all this stuff up if you obviously don't know what you are talking about?



:laughing: I bow to your overwhelming anger. You seem to have a lot of emotional investment in random text posted on the internets about flashlights... :duh2: I know, I know, you're a crusader for truth and justice, and you must crush all errors and falsehoods discovered during the course of your nightly patrols... :shakehead

First: Show me a >15W HID that runs on 3x CR123As that is built by a major manufacturer (custom hotrods don't count). I will concede to your righteous fury if you can do that.

Second: I'm not sure what hot Surefire lamp assemblies have to do with cell overheating? Especially since I wasn't talking about putting the cells in an oven and then running them. My point was exactly that I suspect with the amount of heat-sinking on the M2S, the body of the light really doesn't get very warm at all, so external heat isn't the problem. Note the use of the word "suspect", which means that I do not have proof, but instead mere suspicion. I might also point out that the HOLAs have runtime limits, in that they have a max runtime of 20 minutes before the batteries give out anyway (now, I've never actually used a HOLA, just going off of Surefire's specs here, so if it's actually 20.377 minutes, feel free to go nuts again).

Third: I know the "C" rule. I also remember seeing a spec sheet (I believe it was for Rayovac CR123s, but I'm not sure, and google is failing me at the moment) that stated that 1C (in this case, 1C was 1550mA) was the maximum safe *continuous* use. The specs also said that something like 4C was allowed, as long as it was a 1:10 on : off duty cycle. I suppose it's possible that I'm mis-remembering the specs. If you can find a spec sheet that says 2500mA rather than 1500mA, then I will surrender to your spider army.

Fourth: If you've ever watched the voltage of a CR123 while experiencing significant draw, then you know that almost instantly after the draw disappears, the voltage returns to "normal". If you've ever played with hot things, then you know that heat doesn't instantly disappear when the power shuts off. So why does Jetbeam let you immediately turn the light back on in high after it shuts off "due to heat"? It would be pretty simple to keep the user from re-activating high for X minutes after the cutoff (at least forcing the user to remove the batteries long enough to reset the circuit).

Fifth: In the interest of maintaining proper internet decorum: :nana:


----------



## TodToh (Feb 4, 2010)

this is my *"Tatical 1000 lumens"  *:naughty:


----------



## guiri (Feb 4, 2010)

houtex said:


> I also found dome new cool pics of it here. In two colors.
> http://www.ohled.com/board/forum.asp?rn=20100204009



Not just two different colors, two different lights


----------



## guiri (Feb 4, 2010)

Fight!  Fight! :whoopin: Fight!  Fight! :touche:


----------



## Partywaggin (Feb 4, 2010)

grunscga said:


> :laughing: I bow to your overwhelming anger. You seem to have a lot of emotional investment in random text posted on the internets about flashlights... :duh2: I know, I know, you're a crusader for truth and justice, and you must crush all errors and falsehoods discovered during the course of your nightly patrols... :shakehead
> 
> First: Show me a >15W HID that runs on 3x CR123As that is built by a major manufacturer (custom hotrods don't count). I will concede to your righteous fury if you can do that.
> 
> ...





Wes


----------



## AlexLED (Feb 5, 2010)

Sounds great !!

Anybody know which chromaticity bin they use ? 

(The available SST-50 bins can be found here: http://www.luminus.com/stuff/conten...s/pds_001393_rev_02__binning_and_labeling.pdfhttp://www.luminus.com/content1518 )


----------



## TriChrome (Feb 5, 2010)

Does anybody know if the M1X's +1 cell extender AND the pressure switch tailcap will also work on the M2S?


----------



## Dioni (Feb 5, 2010)

TriChrome said:


> Does anybody know if the M1X's +1 cell extender AND the pressure switch tailcap will also work on the M2S?


 
Its a good question. We know that the head really does not fit, but nothing about extender and tail. :thinking:


----------



## windstrings (Feb 5, 2010)

TriChrome said:


> Does anybody know if the M1X's +1 cell extender AND the pressure switch tailcap will also work on the M2S?




The head have reverse "male vs female" of what you need.

the extender caps "may" work only if they are the latest extender caps that went with the last generation M1X....

I know for a fact they won't work with the older ones as those won't work with the later versions of M1X let alone the M2S as the threads are the right size but wrong type.. you only get about 1/2 a turn.


----------



## Dioni (Feb 5, 2010)

I saw a M1X using a Surefire Tailcap SW02. Question: wich M1X version has the same threads of Surefire C?


----------



## TriChrome (Feb 5, 2010)

My v4 M1X has the same threads as a Surefire C2. I can swap in the tailcap, extender tube, and tapeswitch tailcap without any problems between the two.


----------



## Dioni (Feb 6, 2010)

TriChrome said:


> My v4 M1X has the same threads as a Surefire C2. I can swap in the tailcap, extender tube, and tapeswitch tailcap without any problems between the two.


 
Thanks


----------



## toby_pra (Feb 8, 2010)

That RRT-3 looks also very interesting...like a fat baby, but nice! :twothumbs


----------



## windstrings (Feb 8, 2010)

toby_pra said:


> That RRT-3 looks also very interesting...like a fat baby, but nice! :twothumbs



Ideal for rifle installations... but If I'm gonna hold something that fat... it needs to have a good head on it too!...... "and be mine of course!" :kiss:


----------



## toby_pra (Feb 9, 2010)

windstrings said:


> Ideal for rifle installations... but If I'm gonna hold something that fat... it needs to have a good head on it too!...... "and be mine of course!" :kiss:


 
+1


----------



## ShOgUn_LI (Feb 9, 2010)

So how's the jetbeam tapeswitch tailcap compare to the surfire one? Man i'm excited to get my new jetbeam!! I just hope the whole package comes in time before my mate leaves for Africa! lol my trust is in all the post-people out there


----------



## houtex (Feb 12, 2010)

A review I think, but I can't read Korean
http://www.ohled.com/board/forum.asp?rn=20100212001


----------



## Fusion_m8 (Feb 12, 2010)

Good pics showing the beam profiles between the M1X and M2S. For some reason, both beams look really blue, like 8000K+ colour temp. Maybe it was the contrast against the orangey street lighting:thinking:??

I wonder how easy is it to mod the M2S with a warm-neutral SST-50 emitter? Do these emitters even exist?



houtex said:


> A review I think, but I can't read Korean
> http://www.ohled.com/board/forum.asp?rn=20100212001


----------



## windstrings (Feb 12, 2010)

Humm.... the M2S doesn't have the donut but is also softer and not as intense.

I wonder what that means for distance throw?


----------



## Fusion_m8 (Feb 13, 2010)

Really?? I was under the impression that the M2S had a bigger and more intense hotpot than the M1X...

I guess when my M2S arrives, I'll compare it to kiwiman3139's M1X.



windstrings said:


> Humm.... the M2S doesn't have the donut but is also softer and not as intense.
> 
> I wonder what that means for distance throw?


----------



## Dioni (Feb 13, 2010)

houtex said:


> A review I think, but I can't read Korean
> http://www.ohled.com/board/forum.asp?rn=20100212001


 
Thanks for the link! :thumbsup:


----------



## Fusion_m8 (Feb 13, 2010)

Can AW's 2600mah flat top cells work in the M2S?


----------



## learner-gr (Feb 14, 2010)

houtex said:


> A review I think, but I can't read *Korean*
> http://www.ohled.com/board/forum.asp?rn=20100212001




Hi from Greece. Try this to translate the korean :
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/
put the link in the bar and then choose the korean to english


----------



## Flashlites R Us (Feb 15, 2010)

windstrings said:


> " but is also softer "
> 
> "I wonder what that means "


 

I have read mentions of a TITYCALL......... so I am definitely getting in line






BTW I surely hope that when I come up for one that it is extended to at least 10 minutes instead of the mentioned 3 min.


----------



## windstrings (Feb 15, 2010)

Flashlites R Us said:


> I have read mentions of a TITYCALL.........



What the Heck?.... I didn't mean that kind of "soft" :huh:


----------



## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

Edited for a time when I have cooler head. I am frustrated with the poor design work.


----------



## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

Fusion_m8 said:


> Can AW's 2600mah flat top cells work in the M2S?


 
No they will not.


----------



## Dioni (Feb 20, 2010)

kengps said:


> Edited for a time when I have cooler head. I am frustrated with the poor design work.


 


kengps said:


> No they will not.


 
:sigh:


----------



## Fusion_m8 (Feb 20, 2010)

Darn... I bet it doesn't work in the M1Xv4 either...



kengps said:


> No they will not.


----------



## kengps (Feb 20, 2010)

I can't say for sure...but the M1X has a completely different design on the Positive contact. It is a single raised post. The M2S has a second ring surrounding the post that is raised higher and prevents flat tops from contacting it. Look at picture number 4 on post #1 to see what I mean. You would think that ring would be a contact also, but there is no continuity to positive.


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## coolperl (Feb 20, 2010)

I suppose, that this ring is a mechanical reverse-polarity protection. It can't have electrical connection with positive terminal, otherwise when the batteries are inserted in wrong way, the circuit board would fry.


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## kengps (Feb 20, 2010)

coolperl said:


> I suppose, that this ring is a mechanical reverse-polarity protection. It can't have electrical connection with positive terminal, otherwise when the batteries are inserted in wrong way, the circuit board would fry.


 
That makes sense....maybe Jetbeam is incapable of electronic reverse polarity protection like everbody else??


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## Dioni (Feb 20, 2010)

coolperl said:


> I suppose, that this ring is a mechanical reverse-polarity protection. It can't have electrical connection with positive terminal, otherwise when the batteries are inserted in wrong way, the circuit board would fry.


 
I think not! At least for me it does not seem to be and it would be not efficient to protect anything! But if its not a reverse-polarity protection, what is that then?


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## Fusion_m8 (Feb 20, 2010)

I think you're right! Comparing pics between the M2S, M1Xv4 and M1X, the M1Xv4 and M2S has a more recessed positive contact that doesn't allow the use of flat top cells. That's a real pity because both lights would have been stellar performers with AW 2600s... Guess I'll just have to contend with AW2200s.

Image supplied by CPF member: gilly. Original post here.




M1X(left) M1Xv4(right)
Image supplied by BugOutgearUSA.com




M2S(left) M1X(right)






kengps said:


> I can't say for sure...but the M1X has a completely different design on the Positive contact. It is a single raised post. The M2S has a second ring surrounding the post that is raised higher and prevents flat tops from contacting it. Look at picture number 4 on post #1 to see what I mean. You would think that ring would be a contact also, but there is no continuity to positive.


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## coolperl (Feb 21, 2010)

Dioni said:


> I think not! At least for me it does not seem to be *and it would be not efficient to protect anything*! But if its not a reverse-polarity protection, what is that then?



Take a good look at pics and think again. If the ring is not connected electrically with anything, then when you insert batteries in wrong way, the negative terminal of your cells will just touch that ring and nothing will happen, since the positive contact of circuit board is recessed. There won't be any current flow... The circuit board will be fine, the light just won't start. To me, this is a pretty efficient reverse-polarity protection. Although requires a cells with nub on positive terminal.


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## Dioni (Feb 21, 2010)

coolperl said:


> Take a good look at pics and think again. If the ring is not connected electrically with anything, then when you insert batteries in wrong way, the negative terminal of your cells will just touch that ring and nothing will happen, since the positive contact of circuit board is recessed. There won't be any current flow... The circuit board will be fine, the light just won't start. To me, this is a pretty efficient reverse-polarity protection. Although requires a cells with nub on positive terminal.


 
Ok, it *looks like* a "reverse-polarity" protection, but let me clarify some things and the reason wich I cant see it efficient. Nowadays many new lights are coming with flat positive contact, likewise many of them stands for use coupled with weapons like "weapon lights". It also happens with the M1X and M2S.

The question discussed in some threads is just about it. Both lights mentioned have flat positive contacts and spring contacts at the tail [AFAIK 'cause I dont have none]. With the weapon recoil maybe occur some bad [shortage] contact in these points. How efficient is this kinda protection considering the mentioned above?

Not to mention the impossibility of use of the AW2600mah :/



kengps said:


> That makes sense....maybe Jetbeam is incapable of electronic reverse polarity protection like everbody else??


 
*+1* 
I need to agree, maybe they are!


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## jsholli (Feb 22, 2010)

Fusion_m8 said:


> I think you're right! Comparing pics between the M2S, M1Xv4 and M1X, the M1Xv4 and M2S has a more recessed positive contact that doesn't allow the use of flat top cells. That's a real pity because both lights would have been stellar performers with AW 2600s... Guess I'll just have to contend with AW2200s.


 
Would some small Neo magnets and superglue solve the flat-top issue???


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## Dioni (Feb 22, 2010)

jsholli said:


> Would some small Neo magnets and superglue solve the flat-top issue???


 
There are reports they do not work even in this way, however it is a request of adaptation and a "con" IMO. There is not a exact definition on it though.


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## rokspydr (Feb 22, 2010)

So I am wondering why are AW flat top cells flat top? Is there a benefit or just to be different.


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## Patriot (Feb 22, 2010)

houtex said:


> A review I think, but I can't read Korean
> http://www.ohled.com/board/forum.asp?rn=20100212001




In studying these the two beams, the M2S doesn't seem like it will throw any better than the M1X. That said, it's obviously still a good thrower and puts more lumens downrange. 





> Bugoutgear
> For those that asked...
> 
> Here is some info on M2S' High Mode Protection:
> ...




I have no problem with the logical thermal management of a light such as this. In fact, I think it's neat that we are able to boost a light temporarily above it's sustained output capability. The problem with the M2S is that its thermal management is not logically or intelligently controlled. Instead it's more like and "idiot light" on a dashboard that does little to preserve the integrity of the component. In other words, an operator in theory could just keep turning the light off and back on every 3 minutes and still exceed the thermal boundaries of the LED. Likewise there is absolutely no reason for a light like the M2S to step down when the user is operating it in arctic conditions or even a 15F day in Flagstaff AZ for that matter. I would be far more interested in a light with active thermal management, even if it cost a little bit more. The Wiseled Tactical for example uses active thermal management and only steps down when thermal conditions dictate that it should. That way users in cold climates can take full advantage of what the SST-50 as to offer. Also, users in warmer climates wouldn't be shut down unnecessarily or annoyingly early either since it wouldn't step down until needed. This seemingly randomly chosen 3 minute is a very low tech and generic way to address the thermal issue, which really seems to be out of place on a $200+ light. 

I could probably be convinced otherwise if I was to see M2S heatsink temperature readings at 3 minutes vs. the continuous runtime temperatures of the M1X's heatsink on sustained high. Somehow I doubt that the SST-50 is generating the same temperatures at 3 minutes that other Jetbeams are allowed to run continuously at and thus I feel that the M2S has been needlessly handicapped in Jetbeam's addressing of this issue. 

As a long time JB fan it labors me to point out that it would be nice if they had thought this through a single time rather than to eventually have a M2S version 1.4 like we went through with the M1X. I for one would like to see active thermal monitoring. Is this type of a circuit really so difficult or expensive to incorporate into a light such as this? I'll probably have to pass on this purchase if the 3 minute "idiot light" circuitry is to be the final rendition of this model. In speaking to other less knowledgeable flashlight fans at work, all are very underwhelmed with the 3 minute high as well. 

Btw, my complaints are aimed at JB, not Flavio, who has been a very respected and helpful retailer and CPFer.


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## Dioni (Feb 22, 2010)

Well, I was looking for some info and found a Live Fire Test Video made by LighJunction showing the M1X and others Jetbeams. In the video, just like the name implies, the torchs are tested on a real fire test mounted on weapons including a Mossberg 12 gauge pump . The video explains a lot and after this there's no doubt on the effectiveness of this type of contact, so there remains only the problems of using AW2600mah! 

Good to see this nice performance of jetbeams on weapons! I'm seriously considering some of these models showed in the video! :thumbsup:

Regards
Dioni


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## Dioni (Feb 22, 2010)

rokspydr said:


> So I am wondering why are AW flat top cells flat top? Is there a benefit or just to be different.


 
I think its because he wanted to compensate the size with the protection. They would be too long if different.


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## Dioni (Feb 22, 2010)

Patriot said:


> The problem with the M2S is that its thermal management is not logically or intelligently controlled. Instead it's more like and "idiot light" on a dashboard that does little to preserve the integrity of the component. In other words, an operator in theory could just keep turning the light off and back on every 3 minutes and still exceed the thermal boundaries of the LED. Likewise there is absolutely no reason for a light like the M2S to step down when the user is operating it in arctic conditions or even a 15F day in Flagstaff AZ for that matter. I would be far more interested in a light with active thermal management, even if it cost a little bit more.
> 
> Btw, my complaints are aimed at JB, not Flavio, who has been a very respected and helpful retailer and CPFer.


 
100% agreed. I've nothing to add!


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## 2Reason (Feb 22, 2010)

My Catapult has similar output and seems comfortable running at longer periods of time. I'm surprised at Jetbeam, I own two of their models, and am very pleased with their products. 

But, if ThruNite can push the SST-50 for 900 lumens, and an honest 750 O.T.F. without an abbreviated time period of three minutes, why can't Jetbeam match that?


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## Bushman5 (Feb 23, 2010)

I'm really not impressed at all with the M2S...........

my M1X will run at 700 lumens with TWO 18650s for many hours. why would i spend the money on the M2s for a lousy 3 minutes of 700 lumens? 


am i missing something here? is there something the M2S does better than the M1x???? 

:sick2::shrug::shrug::thumbsdow


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## Fusion_m8 (Feb 23, 2010)

Yes... the M1X has 700 EMITTER lumens the M2S has 1000 EMITTER LUMENS.

However you are correct saying why spend the extra $$$ for 3mins and then after that the M2S is actually dimmer than the M1X?? Thats why I changed my order with BugOutGear USA, I changed the order for the M2S for the M1X... no regrets!




Bushman5 said:


> I'm really not impressed at all with the M2S...........
> 
> my M1X will run at 700 lumens with TWO 18650s for many hours. why would i spend the money on the M2s for a lousy 3 minutes of 700 lumens?
> 
> ...


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## jtrucktools34 (Feb 23, 2010)

I just can't pull the trigger on this one. :mecry: 

I actually had it in a cart three or four times but just couldn't justify it. I have purchased a lot of lights because of the WOW factor when I didn't need them but I just find this light lacking. I own a Catapult and an M1X and see enough differences in them to own both, but the M2S.... 

As Patriot has pointed out, the three minute step down was the killer!  

Just my 2c.


> Btw, my complaints are aimed at JB, not Flavio, who has been a very respected and helpful retailer and CPFer.



Absolutely 100% agree!! :twothumbs


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## kengps (Feb 26, 2010)

Well Jetbeam did it. They revised the manual to cover their screw-up (or poor design) of the UI. So....you must turn the light on in MAX mode or the daily use mode will cycle to the next mode up from the one you last used. No more Jetbeams for me. This is insane. I should send them a beat up Fenix PD10 so they can see how a Twist Bezel UI works.


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## Fusion_m8 (Feb 26, 2010)

The more I read this the happier I am I got the M1X and not the M2S!!


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## jsholli (Feb 26, 2010)

kengps said:


> Well Jetbeam did it. They revised the manual to cover their screw-up (or poor design) of the UI. So....you must turn the light on in MAX mode or the daily use mode will cycle to the next mode up from the one you last used.


 
Wow...that's just goofy :huh:


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## gsxer (Feb 26, 2010)

I sure hope they don't screw up the Raptor 3 thats the light I am waiting on.


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## ShOgUn_LI (Mar 17, 2010)

1. The jetbeam pressure switch doesn't fit on the M2S cause the thread is different

2. Doesn't work with 2500mAh AWs and IMR cells need spacers cause they are too short

Anyone done any mods to it yet and taken this thing apart?


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## toby_pra (Mar 17, 2010)

Who is interested, i have posted some beamshots of the new M2S over here:

*Big Shootout!*


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## Dioni (Mar 17, 2010)

toby_pra said:


> Who is interested, i have posted some beamshots of the new M2S over here:
> 
> *Big Shootout!*


 
Thanks for the great link! :thumbsup:


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## toby_pra (Mar 17, 2010)

Dioni said:


> Thanks for the great link! :thumbsup:


 
No problem Sir!


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## stel (Oct 4, 2012)

hi
I plan to buy JetBee m2s old model, so I'm interested in whether the endorsement of goods or deteriorate lamp


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