# Arc Flashlights



## Gransee (Aug 29, 2001)

Hi!

This is a general discussion thread for Arc Flashlights (both the Arc-AAA and Arc-LS), future products or any other question you would like to post to Arc Flashlight, our distributors, the reviewers, etc.

Welcome!

Peter Gransee

Legal Disclaimer: We get many suggestions for new flashlight inventions via email, etc. If you want to keep your idea secret or make money from it, do not send it to us or post it here in the forums! All messages posted here and emailed to us are public domain. If you do not agree, please do not post here.


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## JonSidneyB (Aug 29, 2001)

Great, I hope this thread stays Arc related. I was wondering why the yellow led Arc-AAA doesn't seem as popular or at least talked about amoung colors. Seems to me that it may be best under one way of thinking. Better color rendition than turquoise and brighter than white. Any opinions out there.


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## Gransee (Aug 29, 2001)

As requested, here is how the Arc-AAA looks in Type III hard anodize finish.







The colors in the picture are (from left to right) gray, black and natural.

Anodize is the tough finish applied to the aluminum to harden it against corrosion, scratches, etc and comes in several hardness ratings. Type II is commonly used on most flashlights and is also used on our Arc-AAA. Type III is used on the Arc-LS. Type III is much harder (and more expensive) than Type II. 

We are tossing around the idea of producing a special edition Arc-AAA (XL). It would have the following:

- "Natural" type III finish
- Nichia S-rank brightness, B1 rank color (brightest Nichia whites, yellow/green tint- less bluish)
- All the latest improvements and revisions of the regular Arc-AAA
- Laser inscribed "special edition"
- $34.95 list

I guarantee if we do a run of these, they will be limited. I have no idea how long the special rank of LED used in this flashlight will be available.

Peter Gransee


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## JollyRoger (Aug 29, 2001)

Sign me up for one! The ARC AAA's are great. I can't imagine them being even brighter...


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## DebtFree (Aug 29, 2001)

Hey Peter, 

Thanks for the pic. The "natural" looks the best (IMHO).

You mentioned in another thread, that you had some ideas for making the AAA brighter. Is the use of the "S" rank LED one of those ideas? And, how much brighter is the "S" rank LED? (Or is it just "less blue")

I want to buy 2 HA III AAAs in natural, but I'd like to wait until they are of the "brighter" technology. Is this it? Or, do you have something brighter up your sleeve.

Thanks,


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## Quickbeam (Aug 30, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We are tossing around the idea of producing a special edition Arc-AAA (XL). It would have the following:

- "Natural" type III finish
- Nichia S-rank brightness, B1 rank color (brightest Nichia whites, yellow/green tint- less bluish)
- All the latest improvements and revisions of the regular Arc-AAA
- Laser inscribed "special edition"
- $34.95 list
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I know I said early on that I couldn't see spending more than about $20 on a flashlight, but Peter, I think you may just have me on this one! I like the XL exactly as described! The natural Type III HA is the clincher - won't wear out banging against my keys. If you move forward with this, I'll have to get one!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Aug 30, 2001)

Hi Peter,

How much brighter is the Nichia S-rank compared to the regular ARC-AAA? Say if regular's brightness is 10, Nichia S-rank=???


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## Gransee (Aug 30, 2001)

The S-rank typically have an extra 1-3 candelas of output. 

Where you will notice the biggest difference is in the tint of the beam. It is less bluish.

Peter


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## Chris M. (Aug 30, 2001)

I have to agree with Bruce up there- "natural" looks best to me too, and I`d love to see the LS in that finish as standard. 

I guess due to the limited run, we reviewers will have to buy our own Arc-AAA XL? Well if so, I`ll definately buy one- looks really good, I definately prefer less-blue-tinted LEDs, and it will be nice to see how well the hard anodising holds up to the abuse that being carried on my enormous keychain offers. My "regular" AAA is already looking a little worn.


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## Mike (Aug 30, 2001)

I like the "natural" color the best also.

Hey guys, can you turn these Arc AAA lights on with one hand, or is trying to do that a pain? I'm tempted to get one, but I really don't like twist on/off lights.


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## vcal (Aug 30, 2001)

My version 2.1 Arc AAA (the one that you'd get Now), has a perfect feel to it, with just a _touch_ of pure silicone grease on the o-ring, so the light activates Easily with one hand, and yet will not turn on accidentally in your pocket. IMO-a very mature product.

Mr. Gransee: I thought you tried those "S" rank Nichias before, (mentioned on earlier thread), and couldn't see that much improvement?


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## vcal (Aug 30, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TTS:
*Would anyone be interested in a group buy on the special edition at $25.99 with Shipping by US Mail at $4.40*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would be.
-_Especially_, if they could be hand selected for maximum brightness!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Aug 30, 2001)

Peter: How can I make a booking to buy the limited edition Arc-AAA?


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## Mike (Aug 30, 2001)

Peter,

Any chance of getting the special edition with a higher output Turquoise LED, or is this a white only offering? (I don't know if there is an equivalent to the S-rank in other colors besides white.)

Thanks, Mike


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## protodoc (Aug 30, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TTS:
*Would anyone be interested in a group buy on the special edition at $25.99 with Shipping by US Mail at $4.40*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


TTS:
I would love to be in on this deal. How do I order?

protodoc


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Aug 30, 2001)

Yep sounds good on a group order, but is this only in USA. What's the deal with shipping to Australia?

I hope the Arcs will be imported soon!
Sometime...?


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## WillnTex (Aug 30, 2001)

If you are interested just send me an email with contact information so I can get an idea of how many to order and who wants them.
[email protected] 

Edit: I turned your email address into an active link, DavidW


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 30, 2001)

Wow, this is almost sounding to good to be true. I like all the finish choices, so I`ll just go with the crowd. As for the "s" ranked...brighter better. And I prefer less blue also. This should be the best key chain light available hands down (well they were already the best...but better). My wallet says no but but don`t think I`ll listen to it this time.


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## DavidW (Aug 30, 2001)

TTS, I would be interested.


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## Gransee (Aug 30, 2001)

Posted an Arc-LS update to the Arc-LS thread... 

We will activate the web site to start taking Arc-AAA w/type III HA orders the first of next week.

The product will be sold in white LED and natural finish only. List price will be $34.95 although you should be able to find it for less from your favorite distributor.

This is a limited run as we do not plan on carrying this product indefinately (it all depends on how long the special rank of LEDs are available). The s-ranks have not been available for some time and now all of a sudden Nichia has a few of them in stock. We wasted no time in ordering a bunch.





We do not plan on selling the LED seperately or offering the product in any other colors at this time (hey, I got to have some time left to keep the Arc-LS on schedule!).

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Aug 30, 2001)

In other happenings...

Retail packaging for the Arc-AAA is coming soon for all colors. This will be standard 5x5 inch "blister packs" with color card inserts. We have selected a vendor for these and expect to see these in a little over a month. Pricing will be the same as we will absorb the cost by the expected increase in volume. POP displays will follow after that. The Arc-LS will not have packaging for awhile as it is more of a specialty item.

We are in the process of changing our logo (yes, the three arches have got to go!). Here's what we are looking at right now:







What do you think? Think of this on business cards, the web site, t-shirts, packaging, etc.

Peter Gransee


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## WillnTex (Aug 31, 2001)

Trust Gransee to come up with another light that we can't live without. Mike I have never had a problem turning on the ARC AAA with one hand.


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## JonSidneyB (Aug 31, 2001)

I will take one of each or whatever I can get. I prefer the grey or black but the natural would go well with my hard coat SureFires. I would like to see you stay with hard coat permanently for all models but that might price you out of the market for too many users.


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## Gransee (Aug 31, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by videocal:
*Mr. Gransee: I thought you tried those "S" rank Nichias before, (mentioned on earlier thread), and couldn't see that much improvement?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These are a completely different source and batch. These come straight from our Nichia rep (finally!). Noticable difference.

Btw, looks like people want this so we will put together a few this weekend for photos/testing and hopefully start shipping in a week or two.

Peter Gransee


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## WillnTex (Aug 31, 2001)

Would anyone be interested in a group buy on the special edition at $25.99 with Shipping by US Mail at $4.40


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## JonSidneyB (Aug 31, 2001)

I am very interested in the new limited run Arc-AAA. I still hope that you might one day be able to offer all of the colors shown. I especially want one that will match the color of the Arc-LS. I plan on having the Arc-ls and Arc-AAA share a key chain so I can have light and battery options at the ready. would love to be able to have a matched set one day.


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## Harrkev (Aug 31, 2001)

I have a question about the LS...

If I remember correctly, the 2-AA version will have LESS run time than the 1-AA.

Also, if I remember correctly somebody did a brightness test of the light and found that the 2-AA version was a little brighter (around 10%-20%, if my memory serves me correctly) than the 1-AA version. The 2-AA version was *NOT* twice as bright.

This brings up the obvious question: what happened to the efficiency?

If you assume that each AA cell can perform a certain amount of "work" (in the physics sense) then you would expect two of them to be able to do twice as much. However, if you integrate the brightness over the run time, the 2-AA version should be as much as twice as great. I have not actually done the math, but just eyeballing it, it seems that they are approximately equal.

Have I mis-read some of the data, or is this actually the case?


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 31, 2001)

I like the blue on the left with the yellow beam in the corner.


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## lightuser (Aug 31, 2001)

Peter, they all look slick, but if it were I the "arc" would be small and fairly plain: it would emphasize the excellent quality in the company image. Think "pininfarina"; ie.less is more. These logos seem to say "kaboom! awesome! shazam!" It could say "arc means sophisticated technology as well as power" in my opinion. Thanks; my $.02 worth...


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## Brock (Aug 31, 2001)

The 2 AA LS is at least twice as bright as the single AA version, at least in the beta unit I have.


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## Gransee (Aug 31, 2001)

The Arc-AAA Limited Edition has been added to the website. Orders are being taken now and your card will be charged when we ship on the 10th.

Peter Gransee


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## Mr. Blue (Aug 31, 2001)

Please count me in for 3 XL's...I owe some friends a cool gift!


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## WillnTex (Aug 31, 2001)

Since Gransee is going to ship around the 10th I need to stop taking reservations on Sunday to put our order in.


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## DebtFree (Sep 1, 2001)

Peter,

I kind of agree with Ken B. I like the blue, with the yellow beam ... but, I think I prefer the font of the next to the last one (4th from the left).

Lightuser makes a good point, too. If you wanted to make the font a little smaller, that would be good, too ... although it ain't bad as it is.

And yes, "understated" is the watchword for a professional look ... except that in this case (marketing), I think you DO want it to catch your eye. As I described my choice above ... I think it would be BOTH "eye catching" and professional looking. Would have to see the finished product though, to be sure. I think it would also depend on how big the logo is on the package.

Just my nickel's worth.

Hope it helped. Keep us posted.

Regards,


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 1, 2001)

Hi Peter + Arc enthusiasts.
Sorry if I am out of place doing this but I played around with the proposed logo idea to create what I would lean towards with the format Peter has already supplied.
There still can be a lot more improvement to what I have done. Unfortunately I am a perfectionist and things can always be better if you have the energy!
But have a look anyway. It might trigger more ideas.
We want to help Peter not only make the best LED flashlights but also the best possible logo to accompany them!






I don't really know if that works or not.
We will soon see.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 1, 2001)

Obviously not!

Hmmm.

Help!

Actually...maybe if I do this...


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## Gransee (Sep 1, 2001)

Melmso,

I am interested in yours or any other persons artwork. If we use it, we pay for it. Besides posting to this forum, you may also email it to me [email protected] 

Thanks!

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 2, 2001)

Colourful!...(or _colorful_ for the Americans!)


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## Chris M. (Sep 2, 2001)

Melmso- I see you`re trying to hotlink to a Tripod-hosted image. Well I`m afraid that won`t work. I have a Tripod web site too and they do not allow hotlinking of images to other sites- it gets blocked. When you initially post the message, _you alone_ may be able to see the image, but that`s just due to the way cached files work- it will be stored if you have previewed it recently, and internet explorer won`t try and load it again, which would otherwise get blocked. Funny thing is that I can see them too after copy/pasting the addresses of the images to my address bar- the only way I can see them.

I`m afraid you`ll have to either....

1. post the address of the image- and tell everyone to *copy and paste* it to the addres bar, since clicking on it is blocked too, I have found.

2. find a new image host, perhaps your ISP gives a small amount of free web space- that may work. Or try Excite Webshots at excite.com, a free photo album service that seems to be the only one you can hotlink from.


Its a pain I know, but because Tripod gets all its income from advertisers, the only way you can see images hosted on a Tripod server, is to put them on a Tripod hosted web page- where the adverts are. 


Personally I did what fellow member and Tripod web site owner Quickbeam did- and download AdSubtract, therefore ridding my browser of most banner ads forever! The basic version is free, find it at adsubtract.com


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## The_LED_Museum (Sep 2, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DebtFree:
*Hey Peter, 

Thanks for the pic. The "natural" looks the best (IMHO).
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally, I prefer the black.
The 'natural' looks too much like cat poop.




Drop one of these in the litterbox and you might reach for the "wrong thing" when you go to retrieve it.




This is my *opinion*, mind you, and should not be taken as ghospel.

For those interested, I am about to begin the last of three run-time tests with 123 cells in the Arc LS. (The remaining cells from each two-pack will be used in a similar test when the production units come out).
Today's test will be with the Duracell Ultra.

Find the ongoing results *after 1pm PST* here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000805


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## DebtFree (Sep 3, 2001)

Mr. Stingmon, Sir ......

With all due respect (sort of) ...........


*CAT POOP??????????????????*

I've heard of the proverbial goose that laid the golden egg, but you are apparantly the only person in the history of the world that has a cat that poops Arc flashlights!






What a cat! Since there's not much product cost involved, I guess you can undersell Peter and make a fortune.

BTW, I've been thinking about getting a Lightwave 4000. You don't happen to have a dog that poops one of those, do you?





Sorry ... couldn't resist. You set yourself up for that one. ... and I STILL like the "natural" the best!





All in fun,


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## JonSidneyB (Sep 3, 2001)

to tell you the truth, I would prefer black or grey but that being said, I still want the natural colored one anyway. I want all three colors of finish.


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## Gransee (Sep 3, 2001)

Jon, just to clarify. The color we are offering the LE in is "natural" or what some people call "transparent anodize". Basically, a greenish gray. We had to settle on one color and natural got the most requests (besides, I like it too).

Mad Scientist, the link above pointed to a site with Russian (?). I did not see any artwork.

Btw, there seems to be a lot of artists out there. My inbox has many logos now. Thanks! How about a competition? Here are the details:

The logo:
1. Logo must be black and white only
2. Design must suitable for use on business cards, product packaging, web sites, t-shirts, brochures, etc. This means it must be like a raster graphic and be scalable without looking bad. Notice how logos like the AT&T globe scale very well for all their promotions.
3. The words "Arc Flashlights LLC" must be used and legible even when scaled down to a business card.

The theme:
1. Arc means the brilliant flash of light that results from an arc welder or an arc lamp. When I first saw the bluish light of an LED it reminded me of an arc lamp. The flash of a laser can also be used. "Arc" also can mean "*A R*eally *C*ool flashlight".
2. Avoid designs that might look like other types of light sources like suns, flags of china, stars, etc.

The competition:
1. The timeframe is now until the end of this month (September). 
2. The winner will be chosen with input from CPF members and Arc staff with the final decision being mine.
3. Artwork must be emailed to me at [email protected] .
4. All artwork submitted may be posted to these forums or used in any other way. Only the winner recieves a prize. 
5. We have several contracted artists also working on this logo. The contest entries must be superior to them as well. If they are not, there will be no winner for the contest and we will not use the contest artwork in our literature.
6. The prize will be an opportunity for future contracts, $200 worth of Arc flashlights of your choice, and CPF fame.






Peter Gransee


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## X-CalBR8 (Sep 3, 2001)

Quick question. Just so that I will have a better idea to compare the Type III finish Arc by, which type of finish does a Mag-Lite use? Type II, Type III or something completely different? Please excuse the question if it has been asked previously.


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## Chris M. (Sep 3, 2001)

_which type of finish does a Mag-Lite use? Type II, Type III or something completely different? _

It`s Type-II I think.

If you own a "Millenium Grey" hard anodised SureFire light, that`s the "natural" Level-III hard anodised Arc colour, from what I`ve been able to deduce. And it`s _very_ hard wearing indeed!


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## JonSidneyB (Sep 4, 2001)

I did understand that the natural finish is what will be produced. Looks like the finish on some of my SureFires. I am just hoping that one day the other two colors might be available as well.


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## Gransee (Sep 5, 2001)

The casings for the Limited Edition are at the anodizers right now while the special rank LEDs have been ordered and should arrive any day. The parts should come together this weekend and ship out on Monday. It appears that all of the first run is either sold out or very close to it.

On a completely different note (one for the search engines). I put an Arc-AAA and a popular squeeze light in the microwave because I heard that microwaves could improve the efficiency of an LED. It took about 1 second to permanently fry the squeeze light's LED but the Arc-AAA kept working fine. I found out later that the type of LED affected by microwaves is the organic type so that explains why the LEDs did not get brighter.

At any rate, I guess this means that the Arc-AAA, because of it's metal housing, can withstand some EMP (electromagnetic pulse). Definitely not ground zero at a nuke but if your still standing, your light will probably still be working.

Probably useless info for most, but might be handy to know if you work around utility substations, high power transmitters (RADAR, TV, microwave), super colliders, nuclear power plants, etc.





Peter


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## Brock (Sep 6, 2001)

LOL!!!, Peter I have to say the microwave trick sounds like something I would try


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## X-CalBR8 (Sep 6, 2001)

Just a word of caution to anyone that wishes to mimic the microwave test done by Gransee. Any metal objects put into a microwave runs the risk of burning out the microwave's emitter. At the very least it can mess it up to the point that it won't heat food evenly. Just thought I would add that before people started ruining their microwaves trying to get that little extra boost from their LEDs.


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## DavidW (Sep 6, 2001)

Fun with microwaves. And grapes.

Take a green grape. Slice it in half but leave just a sliver of skin keeping the two halves together. Place both halves flat-side down in the middle of the microwave. Take care not to sever that sliver of a skin keeping the two halves together. Nuke for 10 seconds or less. Watch the fireworks.

DISCLAIMER!: Your burnt down house should be fixed by your insurance company. Not by suing me.








We now return you back to your regularly scheduled flashlight discussion.


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## Gransee (Sep 7, 2001)

Update on Limited Edition Arc-AAA's:

Our S-ranks arrived today but they where the wrong color tint. I called our rep and he verified that we had specified the B1 color tint on our order so it must have been their shipping that screwed it up. We got the B2S rank instead. He is overnighting the correct rank to us but this is going to delay our shipment to you. We do have about 60-70 B1S ranks already from our last order and we will send those out as a partial for web orders on Monday but the bulk of the orders will have to wait until the rush shipment comes in. We will probally ship the remaining (most orders) Limited Editions by Wednesday. 

We apologize for the delay.

Peter Gransee

Btw, the turquioses came in today as well. These are actually a brighter rank than our normal turquoises. All distributors will have these shortly.


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## MY (Sep 7, 2001)

TTS, I just saw your group buy and would like to be included if you have any spares.

Thanks.,


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## WillnTex (Sep 7, 2001)

My - Drop me an email and I can explain what is going on at the moment.


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## JonSidneyB (Sep 11, 2001)

Gransee, got a couple of questions for you. Do you think that you will be offering other hard finsh colors on the Arc-AAA line in the future and possibly hard finish in more led colors? Also, will the company that does your finishing do items from individuals? I have a few aluminum items that I would like hard coated if possible. If they do work for individuals, I would like to know how to contact them.


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## Gransee (Sep 11, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonSidneyB:
*Gransee, got a couple of questions for you. Do you think that you will be offering other hard finsh colors on the Arc-AAA line in the future and possibly hard finish in more led colors? Also, will the company that does your finishing do items from individuals? I have a few aluminum items that I would like hard coated if possible. If they do work for individuals, I would like to know how to contact them.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jon, send me an email and I will forward their contact information on to you.

As far as future colors, that is certainly doable. I posted a couple of Arc-AAA's in red finish a while back but I didn't get any requests for them so I put the colors on the back burner. When we do a color, we have to meet a fairly high minimum lot amount otherwise they are not cost effective. For this reason, we won't add a color unless there are more than a few requests.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Sep 11, 2001)

Update:

The first run of the Arc-AAA LE (Limited Edition) has shipped. I am suprised at the interest for this model. We are currently out of stock and should have some more in about 3 weeks. If you want to get this model, place an order with your favorite distributor (or from our website) so we can guage how many we need.

All the distributors now have the version 2.2 of the Arc-AAA standard (type II black finish). This version adds a redundant ground to the PCB to improve electrical and heat grounding. Another change we made was to reduce the key loop cross section to make it easier for the assemblers to get the split rings installed (this should improve the QC around that area). We also made an internal change to the PCB to further improve QC. The LE has these improvements as well. 

The Arc-LS is coming along. We changed the alloy we are going to use from 2024 (aircraft aluminum) to a different alloy we are not revealing right now. The new alloy has a higher strength and provides for smoother threads. The new alloy has already been ordered, shipped and arrived. The machine is being setup later this week to start the run. 

We ran a test run of the production PCB's to make sure there where no bugs. This was a good idea because we decided to changed the layout slightly to facilitate manufacturing. The final production boards where ordered last Friday and are being produced right now. The test run was done with tin-clad boards to reduce their cost but the production boards are the more expensive "Hard Gold" (Cobalt Gold) clad.

As part of our testing regime and to train the assemblers, we built a couple of complete production PCB's. The electrical consistancy between the boards was suprising (a good thing). We also experimented with some ideas on how to improve their efficiency and found the circuit is running quite well already. Turns out the prototype units perform pretty close to how the production units do electrically.

A lot more has been done with the LS than what I have conveyed so far. Mostly having to do with setting up QC procedures and baselines, manufacturing steps, etc. We have also made a couple of minor improvements to the design since the prototypes. This flashlight is really starting to come together!

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 12, 2001)

Man... looks like although I just bought 2 Arc-AAA, I will have to get a third... (If I could I will trade in my current Arc-AAAs in a heart-beat!)

Nonetheless, as I just placed an order for the LE Arc-AAA, I was also wondering when the LS is scheduled to ship. You mentioned the AAA LE won't be back in stock for 3 weeks, and if the LS will be release shortly after that I would like to have the LE AAA ship together with the LS, saving a few shipping bucks...


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## roguesoul (Sep 12, 2001)

Are all previous turquios sold out? How will I know if I get the brighter rank? Are all future turquios AAA's the brighter rank or just a limited number?
I have a green now and love it but as you can see I would be interested in an extra bright turquois some time in the future, TIA.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Peter Gransee

Btw, the turquioses came in today as well. These are actually a brighter rank than our normal turquoises. All distributors will have these shortly.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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## JonSidneyB (Sep 12, 2001)

Gransee, has there been any interest by other users for hard coated grey and or black Arc-AAA's. Would be interested in these if they ever become available. Would love to be able to have matching Arc-AAA's and Arc-LS's in both natural and grey or black.


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## Mike (Sep 12, 2001)

I've decided to wait on buying an Arc AAA until I can get it with a the higher ranking brightness turquoise LED and type III HA. Hopefully something like this will become a standard offering eventually.


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## Gransee (Sep 12, 2001)

99% of our shipment of Arc-AAA LE's was shipped via air freight. As you know, the recent disaster has grounded all air flights in the US and all flights to and from the country. Your order will be delayed.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Sep 12, 2001)

We have begun production on the second shipment. It will take 3 weeks before they are ready. The delay is a combination of machining the housings and anodizing, lasering, etc.

Ground shipments in general are delayed because of the attack. In addition, I just heard a couple of minutes ago from a truck driver friend (he called from the road on his cell phone) that ground freight is blocked to/from the northwest. He was told to drop his load at the Virginia border. The area effected is east of Ohio and North of Virginia. He was told that this restriction is on all freight.

The shipment we sent earlier this week will be delayed. The second shipment should ship ok (once they are manufactured) since the carriers should be back on schedule by that time.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Sep 12, 2001)

I heard from a postal employee that until flights resume, the post office is not shipping any packages past 600 miles.

I have also heard that the local airport, Sky Harbor, has met the new FAA requirments and should be open for business as soon as the FAA allows flights to continue. The large amount of orders we sent earlier this week should be enroute by the end of the week. Of course, your local airport must be approved to accept the flight as well. I have a suspicion that most of the orders we shipped are still here in town (probally at the airport).

Peter Gransee


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## JollyRoger (Sep 13, 2001)

Thanks for the update, Peter.

I was wondering if you have started production on the second run (for the limited edition ARC's). Will you be offering ground UPS shipping for these? In other words, we people be able to order from your website this week and have ground delivery?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 15, 2001)

I'm an arc wielder now, my ARC AAA LE just arrived.

This is my first "real" LED flashlight, and it looks like a winner.

The white light is a lot more blue than I was expecting, but nice and bright. The beam pattern is also not as centered and even as I was expecting, but should be very usable.

Can someone tell me why arc charged me $5 shipping for 57 cents in actual postage?

Tom


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## Gransee (Sep 15, 2001)

Hi Tom, I am so happy you got your package this week considering the current events and their effects on freight delays!

We actually get the question about the 57 cent stamp (or whatever it costs) often. The stamps are only used for adjacent states and even then, what we are charged by our shipper is more than 57 cents (that is just what the post office gets). We charge a flat $5 fee to ship anywhere in the US (which is lower than the average) for every order- no favorites. This is supposed to cover most of the shipping and handling costs for most of the orders. This includes not just postage but packaging, order fullfillment, etc. Our fee structure has been tweaked many times and we arrived at the current numbers to keep things simple and fair. Our goal is to reach an average where there is no money left over from shipping costs. 

Yes, the B1S rank still has some blue tint to it (it is a blue LED with a phosphor cap after all) but it is less blue than your normal rank of Nichia.

All of our whites are not as straight as we would like. It is not as easy a problem to solve as you might think. The colors are much straighter than the whites. The problem with the whites is that the Nichia 5mm white has a much more uneven surface compared to their colored parts. This may be to facilitate tight packing, we don't know, but their colors have nice straight sides while their whites have slanted sides. This makes it difficult to collar tightly and still allow for variations in the LED dimensions. This is also causing higher rejects during production because the epoxy defeats the seal and ruins the LED (causing the entire finished head and PCB to be rejected). Although our collar dimensions for the white are the same, the problem has gotten worse which points to increased variations in the Nichia dimensions for their white 5mm or better QC on our line. We think we have a solution and it will go into the next run. What we did for this past run is to hand test each light (as promised earlier) and use stricter guidelines than our standard product. We rejected 20 percent of this run of LE's- mostly because of trueness and tint problems. The design improvement has further delayed the second run- which is how we got the 3-week figure we quoted earlier.

Again, good to hear you got the light so quickly and that you like it!

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Sep 17, 2001)

From the LS thread..

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sylvestor:
*Hi Peter,

Can you give us more details about Prometheus. I may want to hold off purchasing the ARC LS if the specs on Prometheus will blow it away.

Also, I've read through the entire Arc-LS thread. I found it neat to watch a product grow from infancy to maturity based on users inputs. However, when looking for quick stats on the LS, I had to keep trying to find the correct post which has the information I'm looking for. Do you think you can have an R&D web page on your website which would have current stats, specs, pictures of the ARC-LS ?

thanks,

Sylvestor*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We will be adding more information to the web page after the product is available. This is mostly because we want the specs to be of the production model and not the prototype.

Lumileds has codes names for both their chip geometry and composition. Once these products are on the market, the code name may no longer be used.

Note: All these code and product names are used to describe one product line: The Luxeon Star from Lumileds.

In geometry they have batwing and Lambertian. The Lambertian is a tip-chip (inverted pyramid) design and is inherently more efficient. Batwing is also called "low dome" and the Lambertian is called "high dome". Remember high dome = higher chip profile because the tip chip is taller.

The batwing and Lambertian use different types of lenses (that look the same to the casual viewer) and cast different types of beams. The batwing appears "roundish squarish" while the Lambertian appears more roundish (a nice beam made even nicer).

"Lambertian" is pronounced "Lamb-bursh-shen".

In product lines they have the barracuda, which is a red or amber die in the batwing configuration. The Flamenco is the white/cyan/green/blue/royal blue die in the batwing configuration. The Prometheus is the red or amber in the Lambertian configuration. The "___" (I have been asked not say the code name of this product) is the white and other colors in the Lambertian configuration.

Here are some efficiency numbers:
Flamenco (white): 18lm/W
Barracuda (amber): 20lm/W
Prometheus (amber): 36lm/W
___ (white): wow lm/W

I have been told that the white will eventually overtake the amber/red in efficiency. But for the rest of this year and most of next year, the amber/red colors will be more efficient. By reading between the lines you can see that I gave you a range that the "___" will be in.

You can find current specs at www.luxeon.com

Ok, what about availability?

The flamenco and barracuda are available right now and these are what will go in the LS. The Prometheus is available in samples right now but the production units are not going to be available from the factory until the end of November (at the soonest). Expect them in the Arc-LS the beginning of December (at the soonest!!!). The "___" are supposed to be available in production units around Q2 or sooner/later (I get different numbers each time I ask).

Each improvement is at least initially more expensive than the last generation. We will have to pay a premium to put the new parts in the Arc-LS. The parts are a drop in replacement and so you should see them available in the flashlight quite soon after we receive our stock. I am happy to say that Lumileds will be putting the extra efficiency into increasing the light output of the Luxeon Star, not reducing power consumption.

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 17, 2001)

Hey, Mr. G (




)

Here is the thing: often I would like to use my ArcAAA, which is bound to my key-chain, which makes me wish there was a belt clip which would allow ArcAAA be always on me, yet there would be no hassle with the keys.

I think that a belt clip would be a nice accessory for the ArcAAA. (It could also increase sales, as there would be more people asking "lemme see dat..."



). The most efficient way (IMHO) would be to implement a removable clip that would be attached between the body and the head of the flashlight, so the light would be attached in bezel-up mode. Another option would be to have a clip similar to the MiniMag's, possibly utilizing the orifice at the back of the body. (Is it me or that phrase sounded dirty?)


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## Gransee (Sep 18, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mad_scientist:
*Hey, Mr. G (



)

Here is the thing: often I would like to use my ArcAAA, which is bound to my key-chain, which makes me wish there was a belt clip which would allow ArcAAA be always on me, yet there would be no hassle with the keys.

I think that a belt clip would be a nice accessory for the ArcAAA. (It could also increase sales, as there would be more people asking "lemme see dat..."



). The most efficient way (IMHO) would be to implement a removable clip that would be attached between the body and the head of the flashlight, so the light would be attached in bezel-up mode. Another option would be to have a clip similar to the MiniMag's, possibly utilizing the orifice at the back of the body. (Is it me or that phrase sounded dirty?)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good idea! I have said before that a clip for the AAA product was going to be our first accessory. It's still on the books, just taking awhile (something about an LS taking all my time, blah blah).

Peter


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## Gransee (Sep 19, 2001)

I was looking over the specs for the Luxeon Star LED today and noticed that the candela ratings for the high-domes are lower than the low-dome ratings. The high-dome is brighter, but the beam is wider and therefore less concentrated.

Proof again that candela ratings don't tell all there is to know about how bright a light is.

Peter Gransee


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## protodoc (Sep 19, 2001)

Peter,

Have you decided yet how you are going to handle the serial numbers on the Arc LS?

First 100, first run, all runs?

And will they be based on the initial reservation numbers or on the order in which the purchase orders are received on your web site?

Finally, what is the current ETA of the LS?

Thanks,
protodoc


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## JollyRoger (Sep 19, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*From the LS thread..
Each improvement is at least initially more expensive than the last generation. We will have to pay a premium to put the new parts in the Arc-LS. The parts are a drop in replacement and so you should see them available in the flashlight quite soon after we receive our stock. I am happy to say that Lumileds will be putting the extra efficiency into increasing the light output of the Luxeon Star, not reducing power consumption.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It would be so cool if existing owners of the (soon-to-be-released) ARC LS could drop in these newer versions...since it is a drop in replacement for the manufacturing process...similar to how the mini mags use a pin type lamp that the user can change....

Would this be possible? Or does the current design of the ARC LS's head limit this? IF so, would you be willing to offer a replacement charge, where users send their ARC LS in, along with $15 (or whatever to cover labor) and receive a brighter LS led?


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## Gransee (Sep 19, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by protodoc:
*Peter,

Have you decided yet how you are going to handle the serial numbers on the Arc LS?

First 100, first run, all runs?

And will they be based on the initial reservation numbers or on the order in which the purchase orders are received on your web site?

Finally, what is the current ETA of the LS?

Thanks,
protodoc*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the serial numbers will be assigned to all of the first run not just the first 100. This gives everyone a better chance of having a serialized version.

The serial numbers will be randomized and assigned to the distributors carrying the LS and to our web site (arcflashlight.com) orders. For orders received on our website, we will assign (beginning with the lowest number first) numbers on a "first come, first serve" basis. The distributors may choose to assign their number allotment in the same way or differently.

The distributors for the first shipment are:

BrightGuy.com
DepartmentServices.com
TexasTacticalSupply.com
TripleAughtDesign.com
ArcFlashlight.com (our website)

You will be assigned a serial number at the time you place your order. In addition, on our website, we will assign serial numbers to orders with reservations first and orders without reservations last.

You should know that we currently have more reservations and dealer orders than the number of flashlights in the first run. This means that some people will unfortunately be back ordered even longer. Naturally, we recommend that you place your order early to insure a serialed unit. The second run will not have serial numbers on them.

Orders are not being accepted right now. We will open the order system (for our website at least, the distributors may start at any time) probably the first or second week of October (just 2 weeks from now!). We will give at least a week's notice to this fact so that everyone has a fair opportunity. When you order is received you will be notified of the following: if you will be receiving a serialized version, when it will ship, and the serial number(s) on the flashlight(s). If you are not receiving a serialized version we will give you an estimate of when your order will ship. In either case, your card will not be charged until your order actually ships.

Not all the colors will be available in the first run (they might not even be available for the second run). Colors in good supply are: white, amber, red and green. However, Blue and cyan are back ordered (we have been told that we will have those colors at the end of November). Orders for colors not available will not receive serial numbers on those colors.

On top of all this, we have normal delays in our production. I say normal, because every new product has glitches to overcome. We have made many refinements to the product and expect it to be perfect when it ships. 

*The ship date has been bumped (again) to the middle of October (3 weeks from now).* This is due mostly to factors such as this being a new product, us wanting to add as many revisions as possible, the overall complexity of this product, delays in receiving parts, etc.

In spite of these challenges and the fact that we are not that big of a company, it looks like we will be shipping an LS-type flashlight before any other company!

We hope to add a picture of the finished production unit to the website soon.

Thanks!

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Sep 22, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quickbeam:
*Received mine yesterday from TTS. I have never spent this much on a light before (other than the parts and pieces for my custom modified lights), but this is one great light! OD in color, LED ever so slightly off center that I wouldn't have noticed it if I didn't know it was a problem in this run. Compared side by side to a photon white, the photon beam appears tinted purple, while the Arc AAA LE beam is tinted greenish/yellow with a bluish center (and an underdriven Luxeon Star appears tinted yellow/amber in comparison). All-in-all a very nice light. Well done, Peter!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you! It is a pleasure to produce lights for the LED community.

Just to remind everyone what we are going to do about the "off center" beam dilemma. Yes, we seemed to have a rash of off-center beams with the LE run. Our QC sorted out 20 percent but even so, some got through. It is unpleasantly ironic that a premium product like the LE would have such a simple problem as an off center beam. So, we plan on making this completely right for everyone who has bought an LE and received one that is too off center. 

We traced the problem to a change in the actual dimensions of the LED. It seems that this special SB1 rank is dimensionally different. Maybe they are newer stock and Nichia changed their dimensions awhile back? At any rate, the change in dimension causes the LED to fit more loosely in the flashlight head. 

This looseness allows a greater swiveling action. The degree of swivel is slight at the head but more noticeable in the beam several feet out. Normally the head fits so snugly that it straightens the LED out. Btw, this looseness does not affect the water seal of the flashlight since epoxy is used to seal the head. Also, the beam cannot be straightened once they are manufactured since the epoxy has hardened by that point.

So, what are we doing to fix this? New heads are being machined. This is the 3-week delay on the second run. We are introducing a slanted collar that grabs the LED at more points. We are also reducing the dimensions slightly (it only takes about .001 inch or so). Too tight, and the LED will bind, be scratched, or not sit high enough in the reflector. But if the LED inventory deviates in its normal dimensions (which is does), the slant will compensate for this deviation more than the old cylinder design.

Now this sounds like a pretty easy thing to do, just simply measure it, and then pop a new tool in the machine. But they tell me this is more complicated than that. Oh well, at any rate, they say they got it and the change will be in the next production run. We plan on having the next run of LEs done probably around the same time the first batch of Arc-LSs ship. 

As you know, we stand behind our flashlights. If you got an LE and have even the slightest negative experience, send it back and we will replace it with the new version. One way or another, we will make it right.

Thanks!

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Sep 22, 2001)

Talking about the larger Arc-LS now (not the key chain Arc-AAA LE)...

Some people may be unsure what LED color to get the Arc-LS in. White is recommended for the most versatile use.

However, some may want to try some of the colors just to squeeze out an extra 5-10 lumens or more. Good prospects are the amber or cyan. The trick is to find a happy medium between brightness and a color that is usable for most tasks. Some colors mess with your depth perception or simply make it impossible to see colors in a map, wire color codes, etc.

This is why I personally prefer to use white LED colors. You get a good mix of decent brightness and excellent color definition and depth perception. The LS white is a very nice temperature of white.

At any rate, check out this thread on colors if you are interested.

Peter Gransee


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## MrEternaLight (Sep 22, 2001)

Mr. Gransee, is the ARC-LE product line the successor product line to a product under the name CMG - made oh I suppose about... a year and a half ago? Just curious - a clever product, well made. I don't have one of your ARC-LS products in our case but it looks remarkably similar except the CMG unit used an AA instead of an AAA. Possibly we should consider cross marketing each others products


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 23, 2001)

I have a question about the Arc-LS. I've read several diffent reports as to run time on different batteries. I've read some reports of 8 hours and some of 3 hours on 1AA and 2AA's. Can I get a definate indication as to what can be expected? 8 hours is sufficient, but 3 is a bit short. In the past, I have worked with SAR groups and I cannot imagine replacing the batteries more than once in a night. With a 3 hour run time, that would mean 2 or 3 changes.


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## Gransee (Sep 23, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrEternaLight:
*Mr. Gransee, is the ARC-LE product line the successor product line to a product under the name CMG - made oh I suppose about... a year and a half ago? Just curious - a clever product, well made. I don't have one of your ARC-LS products in our case but it looks remarkably similar except the CMG unit used an AA instead of an AAA. Possibly we should consider cross marketing each others products



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would love to respond to your message in a usefull way, but it unfortunately makes little sense to me.

The Arc-AAA LE is a single AAA LED key chain flashlight. No other manufacturer has made a single AAA LED flashlight before.

The Arc-LS is a multi-battery LS LED tool box flashlight. It is the first flashlight I know of to use the new Luxeon Star LED. 

??

Peter


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## Gransee (Sep 23, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devon:
*I have a question about the Arc-LS. I've read several diffent reports as to run time on different batteries. I've read some reports of 8 hours and some of 3 hours on 1AA and 2AA's. Can I get a definate indication as to what can be expected? 8 hours is sufficient, but 3 is a bit short. In the past, I have worked with SAR groups and I cannot imagine replacing the batteries more than once in a night. With a 3 hour run time, that would mean 2 or 3 changes.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The purpose of the different battery packs is to provide versitility with the same flashlight. The 123 pack provides a medium output with a 2-3 hour run time in a compact package. The 2AA pack provides a longer run time of 4-5 hours and more light but is a larger package. The single AA pack is not as bright, but provides a good run time (5-6 hours) while keeping a small package.

It is your choice!





Peter


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## MrEternaLight (Sep 23, 2001)

Mr. Gransee - sorry for the confusion, I was refering the Arc-LE in both cases and accidentally typed LS (guess it was on my mind). So, is the ARC-LE related to the CMG unit?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 23, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*The purpose of the different battery packs is to provide versitility with the same flashlight. The 123 pack provides a medium output with a 2-3 hour run time in a compact package. The 2AA pack provides a longer run time of 4-5 hours and more light but is a larger package. The single AA pack is not as bright, but provides a good run time (5-6 hours) while keeping a small package.

It is your choice!






Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks Peter! Those were the number I wanted to see. Thanks so much for the timely response! Just ordered 3 Arc-AAA LE lights. 1 for me and 2 for gifts. They seem to me like they would be great small lights to have around. I can't wait to see.

DeVon


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## Go Go Gadget Flashlight (Sep 23, 2001)

Devon, I hope not, but is there some confusion maybe about the two different Arc flashlights?

The Arc-LE refers to a Limited Edition Arc-AAA. It uses an S rank LED and has a better finish than the standard Arc-AAA.

The Arc-LS refers to their as yet unreleased Luxeon star flashlight with multiple battery options.

Just checking...


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## Gransee (Sep 24, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrEternaLight:
*Mr. Gransee - sorry for the confusion, I was refering the Arc-LE in both cases and accidentally typed LS (guess it was on my mind). So, is the ARC-LE related to the CMG unit?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No problem, I think I understand your question now.





Yes, they are definately related!

The Arc-AAA and the CMG Infinity are related in several ways: both use a single cell (AA for the CMG, AAA for the Arc), both use a single LED (nichia for both), both have a metal housing with an anodized finish, both use a circuit to boost the cell voltage (inverter for the CMG, inverter/regulator for the Arc). There are also differences: brightness (the Arc is brighter), run time (the CMG runs much longer), size (the Arc is smaller), Light output curve (CMG is unregulated, Arc is regulated), warranty (CMG?, 10 yrs for Arc), cost (CMG is $5 cheaper), weight w/battery (CMG 2.5 oz, Arc 0.75 oz), manufacturer (CMG = CMG Equipment, Arc = Arc Flashlight, LLC)

Peter


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## Moat (Sep 24, 2001)

Mr. Gransee, I recieved my Arc "AAA" LE about a week ago, and I must say...Outstanding!! Fit and finish, light intensity, hue and beam quality are all a cut above expectations in a light of this size and efficiency. Yeah, the beam center is off a bit, but not enough to notice in use. This light has instantly become my favorite for vehicle maintenance - mechanical details really stand out. Anyway, I was wondering if you had considered an "AA" version ? It seems to me an "AA" would be a relatively easy add to the lineup ( maybe using the existing "AAA" circuit ? ), while taking advantage of the chemical/dollar efficiency of "AA"'s, as well as longer burn times (?) and wider availability in NiMH, etc... Too close to the LS, I suppose? I dunno, but for a few bucks more than a "AAA", I'd sure buy one. Also had the thought, considering the Sept. 11 events, that an Arc would be the ideal emergency personal lighting device ( efficient, durable, avail. in night vision saving red ) for our Armed Forces. Anyway, thanks for a great product, looking forward to seeing how the the finished LS works out!! Bob


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## Gransee (Sep 24, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moat5606:
*Mr. Gransee, I recieved my Arc "AAA" LE about a week ago, and I must say...Outstanding!! Fit and finish, light intensity, hue and beam quality are all a cut above expectations in a light of this size and efficiency. Yeah, the beam center is off a bit, but not enough to notice in use. This light has instantly become my favorite for vehicle maintenance - mechanical details really stand out. Anyway, I was wondering if you had considered an "AA" version ? It seems to me an "AA" would be a relatively easy add to the lineup ( maybe using the existing "AAA" circuit ? ), while taking advantage of the chemical/dollar efficiency of "AA"'s, as well as longer burn times (?) and wider availability in NiMH, etc... Too close to the LS, I suppose? I dunno, but for a few bucks more than a "AAA", I'd sure buy one. Also had the thought, considering the Sept. 11 events, that an Arc would be the ideal emergency personal lighting device ( efficient, durable, avail. in night vision saving red ) for our Armed Forces.  Anyway, thanks for a great product, looking forward to seeing how the the finished LS works out!! Bob*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Woo Hoo! Thank you Bob! Glad to hear you like the LE!





About the AA...
Yes, we have received a good number of requests for an AA version of the Arc-AAA. Maybe we should make one if that is what the people want? Who am I to argue?

The Arc-LS (luxeon star/lighting system) with a single AA battery addresses this request somewhat. It has a good run time (longer than any of the other LS packs), it quite efficient, regulated, and compact. It is pricey though if you just wanted an AA flashlight.

Do you guys think that a single AA size flashlight in general is really a good size? It is too large for the keychain yet too weak for the tool/glove box. Kind of a size without a home? It is a good size for the pocket though. 

We like each one of our products to be quite exciting as flashlights. Wouldn't the Arc-AAA in an AA size be kind of "ho hum" for us?

Peter Gransee


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## geepondy (Sep 24, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
Do you guys think that a single AA size flashlight in general is really a good size? It is too large for the keychain yet too weak for the tool/glove box. Kind of a size without a home? It is a good size for the pocket though. 
Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If there wasn't an ARC LS on the way then I would say yes, but since there is, I think the LS with the AA body is a better choice. Decent runtime, still brighter then any single Nichia LED, fairly small package. For those who want the ultra conservative really long run time, there already is the CMG Infinity. But this is coming from a flashaholic point of view. The general public, the walmart shoppers etc.,(I shouldn't say that, I'm a walmart shopper!) are not going to go for an Arc LS at it's current price level. Perhaps if you could package an AA version of the ArcAAA and sell it for the same price, you might have a desireable audience. If not for the LS, I personally would prefer that over the too dim Infinity.


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## JollyRoger (Sep 24, 2001)

I agree....I think an ARC based on the AA configuration would sell very well. Personally, I love my ARC...BUT...sometimes it does feel a bit cumbersome on my keychain (compared with the Photon II I used to carry around). The AAA ARC is definitely a nice size to carry around in your pocket...yes, even on your keychain...and I think a AA ARC would be excellent, too...but with the added benefit of using the AA battery (long run-time, etc.) It would be even better if you could make it smaller than the CMG Infinity (possible?)

In fact, I've been contemplating making the AAA ARC head fit onto a AA body....like the Infinity's...the longer run-time sounds very appealing, and it would be great as a back-up flashlight one could keep in the car, etc. (and could also store with a lithium AA!)

Another excellent addition to the ARC design would be...A PUSH BUTTON on/off switch! Part of the convenience of a pocket light is the ability to switch it on and off in an instant. This is also a convenient feature of the Photon lights.
The ARC's with this feature would be unbeatable! 
Hey, how hard would it be to manufacture (and sell as an accessory) a piece with the switch that would sit in between the head and the body of existing ARC's? Not too hard, I imagine. Sure, it would add maybe up to a centimeter, but the added utility would far outweigh any disadvantages, in my opinion.


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## Brock (Sep 24, 2001)

I would agree that a AA body for the current Arc AAA would be nice. The ability to use a lithium AA cell would be nice, and the runtime would be a big plus also. I still keep thinking isn't there some way to make an AA holder that the battery would go in through the tail and the AAA head would screw on to the top of the battery? If so couldn't you also make a D version?


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## MrEternaLight (Sep 24, 2001)

Mr. Gransee,

Thank you for explaining the technical differences between the units. I was wondering if your company had anything to do with the other unit but your answer implies that it doesn't. Nonetheless, the technical differences you mention are even more of interest to me now. I didn't formally introduce myself before, please allow me to do so now... I run the company which produces the EternaLight series flashlights. I would like to discuss cross marketing with you, if you're interested - email me.

Best regards,


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 25, 2001)

I like the idea of the AA version of the AAA too. As a caver I suppose one would like a good dependable backup LED light that is bright yet might have a decent run-time. I suppose the problem may lie in that this product may look a little too much like another certain manufacturers model. I'd love it. But, I'd love any Arc product...unfortunately I still am not lucky enough to own one yet. The day WILL COME!!!


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## Spork (Sep 25, 2001)

actually i still think Gransee made the right choice making the arc use aaa. I used to carry around my infinity however it is a bit bulky. I prefer the arc to be aaa because i rarely use the light for over a few minutes a week so carrying around something bigger is worthless. if i was going to carry something bigger I would just bring my attitude with which is much brighter than the arc with 3 led's but still pocket size. the arc is the best at what it is, being the best keychain flashlight ever made.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 25, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Go, Go Gadget Flashlight:
*Devon, I hope not, but is there some confusion maybe about the two different Arc flashlights?

The Arc-LE refers to a Limited Edition Arc-AAA. It uses an S rank LED and has a better finish than the standard Arc-AAA.

The Arc-LS refers to their as yet unreleased Luxeon star flashlight with multiple battery options.

Just checking...



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I understand the difference. I am looking forward to the Arc-LS also, but the Arc-AAA LE also caught my eye. I bought 3! One for me, and 2 for gifts... Working on the Christmas techno-gadget list.


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## Go Go Gadget Flashlight (Sep 25, 2001)

Devon,

OK, good.



From the order of the posts around yours, it sounded like you might think the Arc-LE was the one with battery options. Just wanted to be sure.


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## Moat (Sep 26, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrchri5:
*actually i still think Gransee made the right choice making the arc use aaa. I used to carry around my infinity however it is a bit bulky. I prefer the arc to be aaa because i rarely use the light for over a few minutes a week so carrying around something bigger is worthless. if i was going to carry something bigger I would just bring my attitude with which is much brighter than the arc with 3 led's but still pocket size. the arc is the best at what it is, being the best keychain flashlight ever made.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Please excuse me if I babble a bit folks, but here goes ...I agree, the Arc is the best keychain flashlight ever made - in fact, too good! My opinion may be jaded somewhat by the exellent output and color of the "S" rank Nichia in my Arc "AAA" LE (much better than the Infinity), but these qualities, I feel, raise the LE beyond what is needed in a purely "keychain" type light and into task/backpack/toolbox territory (it's too nice to leave rattlin' round with keys in my pocket, anyway!). Therefore, to me, size is no longer as important.I've been using it around the house and garage as a general flashlight, and am continuously impressed at how useful it is in this capacity. It's on for more than a few minutes a week, so it would be great to have the benefits of the (anyone - correct me if I'm wrong) cheapest/most chemically efficient "AA"'s. I understand there's a subjective limit to the physical size of a light with this output ( 2 "D"'s...mmm...probably not), but the "AA", I think, would be reasonable.
I'm not sure just how much greater burn time would result, I imagine about enough to get thru one long night? As far as a switch goes, that would be great (especially the thought of a recessed momentary micro operating a "flip-flop" latch circuit,ie; push once - "ON", push again, "OFF"), but in reality would increase the cost, weight, complexity and size as well as decrease the reliability and create water resistance issues (it seems). And anyway, to me, part of the attraction of the Arc over other lights (aside from its second-to-none inverter/regulator circuit) is the elegance of its simplicity - so few parts!! I do understand Mr. Gransee's concern that an "AA" version might not be exciting enough to warrant development and tooling, etc... I would suggest that, as more of a "task" or "toolbox light, it would be really interesting to experiment with the LED lens length and contour (as Siho(?) Union and Ledcorp have done with their replacement bulbs) to provide a narrower, brighter, and more concentrated beam, better suited to task-type work, vs. finding keyholes in the dark. Maybe this would make an "AA" unique enough? Sorry for the lengthy post-just thinking aloud- I'll get lost for a while!


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## geepondy (Sep 26, 2001)

I agree with posters who say they'd like to say an arc light, any arc light, that has a switch! Too complex I'm sure for the AAA, but maybe for the LS or other new models. The more I think about it, an AA arc would definitely have uses that would differentiate it from an AAA, the backpack or glove compartment being examples.


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## Gransee (Sep 26, 2001)

I hear you guys. Good points. Moat, have we talked on the phone before? Some of your points sound like part of my rants.





If we come out with a new product, it will be a while, since, well, we got a full plate right now!

But it is still a good idea to plan.

Peter


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## Glow Bug (Sep 27, 2001)

Peter,

Got my LE Tuesday and was soooo impressed that I ordered 6 more from Bright Guy to give out for Christmas. Thanks for a superb product! Count me in for a AA model if it becomes available.


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## Gransee (Sep 27, 2001)

Thanks Glow Bug!

Btw, here's an update on the logo search. We have many good submissions. Which one do you like the best?

*Logo 1:





Logo 2:





Logo 3:





Logo 4:





Logo 5:




*

Peter


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## Quickbeam (Sep 27, 2001)

Logo 4, 2nd down on the left. 3rd down is really good too. Hmmm... A tie I guess.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 27, 2001)

Logo #2 is nice, and #4, third down. Some of the #4 logos reminded me too much of McDonald's...


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## vcal (Sep 27, 2001)

Logo #2 gets my vote as a no B.S., very Professional logo, Mr. G.
-That one I think would fit better in a limited space. .02¢


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 27, 2001)

Take the light in Logo 1 and place it in the same location in the bordered (smaller) version of Logo 3. Consider reducing the font size of "LLC" as in Logo 4 or deleting it.


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## lightuser (Sep 27, 2001)

I like number one, or else a pick out of the four-group. All of these logos are "light years" better than the last set. I think you're close, I would definitely go for one of these, but packaging graphics resolution may not allow some of them, so the fours are pretty good thusly considered. I agree some fours are golden-archy, but they're good otherwise. (Are any of these from CPFers?)


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## Gransee (Sep 27, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lightuser:
*I like number one, or else a pick out of the four-group. All of these logos are "light years" better than the last set. I think you're close, I would definitely go for one of these, but packaging graphics resolution may not allow some of them, so the fours are pretty good thusly considered. I agree some fours are golden-archy, but they're good otherwise. (Are any of these from CPFers?)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the input people! I personally like #2 (with some touching up). #2,4,5 are done by two different contract artists, #1,3 are done by CPF members.

My apologies to people with slow modems...

Peter


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## Gransee (Sep 27, 2001)

Update on the Arc-LS Production Schedule:

We plan on opening the order system up for the Arc-LS on Saturday, October 20th. This is 3 weeks from now. Shipment will probably be ready by the end of October. 

I am sorry for the delays. I know we have changed the ship date 4 times. We base our ship dates on estimates that our contractors give plus some padding. But some of our contractors have slipped their promised dates at least 4 times in the past 2 months. These delays have easily consumed our padding and bumped the ship date each time.

I am impressed with your patience. I am not very patient though. None of you have suggested that I fire the contractors and switch to others, or provide some financial incentives (above and beyond the high prices we pay) to speed them up, or buy the machines and do the work ourselves, etc. I believe we are taking the most efficient route for the time being, but there are a mind-numbing amount of delays.

If you can't tell, I am a little upset about the delays.






We currently have two machine shops contracted. One is consumed with producing the AAA product, the other is producing AAA and the first shipment of the Arc-LS as fast as they can. The second shop has received the metal for the Arc-LS, has finished tweaking the prototypes, and has been programming the machines for the past week. We began working on the prototype over 2 months ago and placed a firm order with the shop a month ago. I talked to the shop owner today and he tells me that it will be another 2 weeks before, "your product is ready". How can I say this kindly... They are a great shop, but I am not expecting them to have these ready in 2 weeks. I would be surprised to see them in 3 weeks. That is why I estimate the date above (first paragraph above).

Now, we have switched contractors enough times to know that a lot of time is wasted getting into a new shop's schedule, etc. We are not going to switch contractors. However, I _will_ bug them quite regularly.





Thanks again for being patient. I do not take your patience for granted!

Some good news: 

Our primary anodizer is doing their job faster and with higher quality than usual. I really like our primary anodizer. The recent economic downturn has really freed up their schedule which makes them quite zippy...

Our PCB assembler is doing nicely as well. They just got a new, cash-rich owner so they have plenty of new toys and the staff to run them. They constantly please me with their genius and problem solving. They have really reduce the AAA and LS boards to a science. They have finished all the tooling for the LS boards, have the parts they need, and are already in production. They tell me they will have the first batch of LS boards populated and tested early next week. I believe them- they have consistently impressed me.

We are pleased with our final assembler as well. They are fast, have good QC and are inexpensive. They also are quite capable of scaling up in a big way. They assure me that once they get the LS parts, they can have them together in a week's time. I believe it because they have always exceeded their estimates.

Peter Gransee


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## protodoc (Sep 27, 2001)

Logo number 2 is the clear winner in my mind. Very strong and professional looking.

protodoc


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## MrEternaLight (Sep 27, 2001)

Well, my congratulations to your conduction of the symphony of contractors you've orchestrated. I understand your frustrations - it's like trying to get a class of 5th graders to go pee at the same time. If you have any problems with quality control or flow control - feel free to ask me my thoughts if you care to.


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## Gransee (Sep 28, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrEternaLight:
*Well, my congratulations to your conduction of the symphony of contractors you've orchestrated. I understand your frustrations - it's like trying to get a class of 5th graders to go pee at the same time. If you have any problems with quality control or flow control - feel free to ask me my thoughts if you care to.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, please email me your contact information.

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 28, 2001)

Peter,
I received my Arc-AAA LE's today and I am so pleased! Bright and small! I can't wait until tonight so I can try it outside. Looking forward to the Arc-LS! I think they will make a great set.


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## Gransee (Sep 28, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devon:
*Peter,
I received my Arc-AAA LE's today and I am so pleased! Bright and small! I can't wait until tonight so I can try it outside. Looking forward to the Arc-LS! I think they will make a great set.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you for the kind words. Came at a good time.



I am still grumbling about the delays on the LS.

Peter


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## geepondy (Sep 28, 2001)

Hi Peter,

I'm impatient too concerning the LS but I can fully understand how those things are beyond your control. I'm sure the released LS will be much more refined then the initial release of the Arc AAA.

I have a question concerning the Arc AAA, limited edition. Will you have the slightly crooked LED problem fixed on the next, second run? If so, I may order a couple and give the two I have now as gifts to people who will never notice the difference. One thing I've noticed thus far is that the type III anodized finish is definitely harder then the type II.

We know about the ARC AAA and LE as well as the LS. I'm sure as you've mentioned, they'll brighter lamp assemblies for the LS down the road but is there anything else on the ARC company table that you can tell us about?


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## JollyRoger (Sep 28, 2001)

How about coming out with an ARC XL, with 2 LS led's running off 4AA's?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 28, 2001)

The number 2 is nice but don't put the writing on the bottom less is more like the nike swoosh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------see?


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## Gransee (Sep 29, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
*Hi Peter,

I'm impatient too concerning the LS but I can fully understand how those things are beyond your control. I'm sure the released LS will be much more refined then the initial release of the Arc AAA.

I have a question concerning the Arc AAA, limited edition. Will you have the slightly crooked LED problem fixed on the next, second run? If so, I may order a couple and give the two I have now as gifts to people who will never notice the difference. One thing I've noticed thus far is that the type III anodized finish is definitely harder then the type II.

We know about the ARC AAA and LE as well as the LS. I'm sure as you've mentioned, they'll brighter lamp assemblies for the LS down the road but is there anything else on the ARC company table that you can tell us about?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the run of LE's now being assembled have addressed the straight LED issue.

I have theory about why we had a rash of crooked LED's. For years we can't get the s-ranks here in the states. Rumor had it the best stock went to Japanease customers. Then all of a sudden 15k s-ranks show up in the US. Sounds too good be to be true. But they are really s-ranks. Now we find their housing dimensions are off. Maybe a large customer rejected them because they would not fit properly in their widget? Well, we can make them work! It just takes some tweaking. They are brighter and they have a better tint. 

As far as your question about future Arc products. Yes, many are in the works.






Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Sep 29, 2001)

Another LS, LE, Standard update:

Visited the primary machine shop again yesterday...

Here's a picture of the machine that makes most of our parts. As you can see, not only do we make our flashlights in the USA, but the machine that makes them is made in the USA.






This machine is the big "Santa clause machine" of the shop. The moneymaker, the momma... etc.





In the center is the mill, specifically a "CNC Swiss" mill. To the right is the auto feeder and to the left is the chip remover. The pipe with the towel is a feeder for another mill, and you can see a third mill (the blue corner of a machine) to the right of the frame. It's a cramped shop- lots of machines. They occupy one complete row of shop spaces in an industrial park.

Right now the machine is running a job for another customer (parts for an electric door?). On Monday (cross your fingers), it should start on the LS and will run for 2 weeks before it is done.

Why use a CNC Swiss instead of the cheaper standard CNC machines most shops have (even a standard CNC costs $250k). In a word, speed, which translates into cost. The Swiss machine has two opposing chucks (so it can hand off the part and machine it entirely without human intervention), powered tools (lot of cool things you can do with those), finish parts bin (automatically ejects the part when it is done so the machine does not have to stop), auto feeder (load it, let it run all night unattended- it will page you if there is a problem), Chip extractor (necessary for long runs).

Before we switched to this machine, our flashlight housing took forever to make just 500 units. A lot of the steps had to be done by hand because the old CNC just couldn't do all the operations.

So, the LS housings (the thing that is holding us up) will be done soon.

The LE second batch just finished anodizing and is due to be ready the end of next week.

The Standard batch is running in parallel to the LE batch and should be ready at the same time. This includes the Turquoises, UVs and IRs that people have been waiting on.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Sep 29, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flashfan:
*Thanks for the picture of the machine, Mr. Gransee. How times have changed. My father ran a machine shop for many years, but none of his machines looked like that! Now that I think about it, if he hadn't sold his business upon retirement, I'd be able to use his lathes to make some really cool, custom flashlights now



...

BTW, I recently received my Arc AAA LE, my first Arc. I have to admit I was sceptical about this light, even if there was so much CPF acclaim. Now that I've handled one for myself however, I'm a believer! 

This certainly is a great little light, even if the beam on mine is a little off-centered. (My spouse thinks I'm more than a little "off" anyway for liking flashlights so much, so it doesn't matter.) One question though...the instructions state that the light should not be used in an "explosive environment"--what exactly is considered an explosive enviroment?

Sorry this post is so long, but in reference to the logos, I really like the look of #1 (the light beam looks more like a real light beam), but for reproduction purposes, #2 probably is better. (I printed out the logos, and found that the light rays on #1 look quite a bit different than what shows up on my screen. I also played around with the sizes of the logos, to see how they might reproduce on a small flashlight scale...) Just an opinion.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks! I am glad the light can be of some use to you.

Also, I am impressed that you took the effort to really check out the different logos.

The bit in the instructions about not using the light in an "explosive enviroment" refers to any enviroment that has the danger of fire or explosion if a spark was present. An extreme example is using a flashlight when someone just vented propane nearby. Allthough the flashlight has an O-ring seal, it has not yet been certified to operate in an explosive enviroment, so we caution the user. Even a 1.5v AAA cell can create a small spark if the conditions are right.

This isn't just about protecting us legally- we do not want any of our customers to be harmed by our product!

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Sep 29, 2001)

Just got this from the user "Glow Bug" here on the CP forums by email:






Thanks, this picture of the companion flashlight kept me laughing for awhile.





Peter


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## Cyclops942 (Sep 29, 2001)

Peter,

Like you, I am frustrated by the repeated delays in the shipping date, but what's an anxious customer to do? After all, complaining to you, especially in this public forum, would accomplish nothing except to agitate both other potential customers and you, yourself. Frankly, I don't see anything useful in either of those things.

You've been quite up-front with us about each delay, and you've notified us promptly in each case. (Although, I suppose we *wouldn't* know if you'd waited three weeks after your sub-contractors told you they'd miss their date, now would we?



) You've expressed your frustration with the whole process; you've apologized for the delays; you've gone to great lengths to not only notify us of the delays, but to explain the causes; you've even been honest enough to tell us that you've caused some of the delays yourself, because the quality of the then-current product wasn't sufficiently high.

Of _course_ I wish I could have been playing with the finished product back at the end of July; let's not be silly! Reality, however, intrudes its ugly head, and I wait as patiently as I can for a better product. Grousing to you won't get it here any sooner; if it would, the product would be not nearly as good as it could be, and I'd rather wait a little longer for a better result.

In summary, I'm sure the result will be worth the wait, and I don't see how complaining will help the situation. (So maybe I'm not all that patient after all, just pragmatic?)

Keep your standards high, sir, and we'll all sit on our hands as best we can.


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## Brock (Sep 29, 2001)

Boy, Glow Bug is a short guy huh


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## Glow Bug (Sep 29, 2001)

I haven't figured out yet how to lay this bad boy down so I can try it out


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## flashfan (Sep 30, 2001)

Thanks for the picture of the machine, Mr. Gransee. How times have changed. My father ran a machine shop for many years, but none of his machines looked like that! Now that I think about it, if he hadn't sold his business upon retirement, I'd be able to use his lathes to make some really cool, custom flashlights now




...

BTW, I recently received my Arc AAA LE, my first Arc. I have to admit I was skeptical about this light, even if there was so much CPF acclaim. Now that I've handled one for myself however, _I'm a believer!_ 

This certainly is a great little light, even if the beam on mine is a little off-centered. (My spouse thinks I'm more than a little "off" anyway for liking flashlights so much, so it doesn't matter.) One question though...the instructions state that the light should not be used in an "explosive environment"--what exactly is considered an explosive enviroment?

Sorry this post is so long, but in reference to the logos, I really like the look of #1 (the light beam looks more like a real light beam), but for reproduction purposes, #2 probably is better. (I printed out the logos, and found that the light rays on #1 look quite a bit different than what shows up on my screen. I also played around with the sizes of the logos, to see how they might reproduce on a small flashlight scale...) Just an opinion.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 30, 2001)

Peter,
When I read of the "off-center" problem, I put batteries in the two other Arc-AAA LE's that I bought and both are effected. Funny the first one I took out wasn't. Anyway, is there any way to get the two fixed? They are both gifts and I would like for them to be perfect.
Thanks!


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## arab (Oct 2, 2001)

I received my LE yesterday. My initial thoughts are very positive. The LED _is _ off-centre but I don't care.





On another note, I can't see the sales take off until the packaging is made a bit prettier. Now, for me this would have *zero* impact on my decision to buy, but I know that packaging is a major crowd puller - especially for the non-internet purchases.

Thanks to Peter for a great light !!!











Alan


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 2, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>especially for the non-internet purchases.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Waa!? are we going to see these in stores?


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## Gransee (Oct 2, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devon:
*Peter,
When I read of the "off-center" problem, I put batteries in the two other Arc-AAA LE's that I bought and both are effected. Funny the first one I took out wasn't. Anyway, is there any way to get the two fixed? They are both gifts and I would like for them to be perfect.
Thanks!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please send them back for replacement. The address is on our website. Thanks!

Just so no one thinks this is a new deal we are offering, this was already discussed earlier in this thread.

Peter Gransee

Btw (to all), I added a legal disclaimer to the beginning of this thread. Everyone should read this before posting any inventions where I can see them. This is the same deal you see in the sci-fi forums where the writers regulary interact with the fans.


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## Gransee (Oct 2, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jeebob:
*Waa!? are we going to see these in stores?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, they are in a few knife stores in CA and PA already. More stores will surely follow once the packaging (already designed and ordered) is completed.

For now, the easiest way to get an Arc is to buy from one of the Internet distributors. You can find them for less than list price.

Here's a list of Arc Distributors

In other "news"....

- Look for a multiple claim, "patents pending" on all of our products soon (about time!).

- Today I checked with the shop and they have been machining the LS parts since yesterday.

- If you haven't already, please read the legal disclaimer at the beginning of this thread. 

- Thanks for giving us the "Yahoo Top Service" award!





Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 2, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Please send them back for replacement. The address is on our website. Thanks!

Just so no one thinks this is a new deal we are offering, this was already discussed earlier in this thread.

Peter Gransee

Btw (to all), I added a legal disclaimer to the beginning of this thread. Everyone should read this before posting any inventions where I can see them. This is the same deal you see in the sci-fi forums where the writers regulary interact with the fans.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks Peter! I'll put them in the mail this week. Anything you need other than the address to send the replacements to?

BTW... I showed my LE to some gadget friends at work today. Needless to say, you'll soon be receiving some more orders!


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## Gransee (Oct 2, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devon:
*
Thanks Peter! I'll put them in the mail this week. Anything you need other than the address to send the replacements to?

BTW... I showed my LE to some gadget friends at work today. Needless to say, you'll soon be receiving some more orders!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just pop them in a good package and send them by regular mail. No need for an RMA#, etc. A small note about what the problem was would be helpfull though.

Thanks for telling your friends!

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Oct 6, 2001)

General update:

Shipped small amount of LE's today. Should ship more this coming week. Today's shipment had the new head geometry (designed to improve LED straightness).

Finally got our cyan LS's in this week. We did not get many units but we will now be able to offer the cyan color from the first production run (yeah!).

_Possible_ future Arc-LS accessory: rechargeable pack with charging cradle. Fits the standard Arc-LS head. Waterproof. Beefy metal housing. NiMH battery. Similar in brightness to 2AA lithium. 3-4 hour run time. Pack would be ~1 inch longer than 2AA pack. Rapid charger would mount on wall (120vac) or in cruiser (12v). Target market: law enforcement and other agencies. Availability: Maybe Q1 of 2002- depending on demand. Again, this is a possible accessory and has not been officially planned.

Peter Gransee


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## Cyclops942 (Oct 7, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Finally got our cyan LS's in this week. We did not get many units but we will now be able to offer the cyan color from the first production run (yeah!).*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fantastic!!!!! Hope I'm one of the lucky few, then. (Part of the TTS group buy, fyi)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Possible future Arc-LS accessory: rechargeable pack with charging cradle. Fits the standard Arc-LS head. Waterproof. Beefy metal housing. NiMH battery. Similar in brightness to 2AA lithium. 3-4 hour run time. Pack would be ~1 inch longer than 2AA pack. Rapid charger would mount on wall (120vac) or in cruiser (12v). Target market: law enforcement and other agencies. Availability: Maybe Q1 of 2002- depending on demand. Again, this is a possible accessory and has not been officially planned.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd be very interested in this option, should it become available. Naturally, price would be an important factor in *when* I buy, but *if* isn't really a question.


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## sylvestor (Oct 7, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*General update:

Shipped small amount of LE's today. Should ship more this coming week. Today's shipment had the new head geometry (designed to improve LED straightness).

Finally got our cyan LS's in this week. We did not get many units but we will now be able to offer the cyan color from the first production run (yeah!).

Possible future Arc-LS accessory: rechargeable pack with charging cradle. Fits the standard Arc-LS head. Waterproof. Beefy metal housing. NiMH battery. Similar in brightness to 2AA lithium. 3-4 hour run time. Pack would be ~1 inch longer than 2AA pack. Rapid charger would mount on wall (120vac) or in cruiser (12v). Target market: law enforcement and other agencies. Availability: Maybe Q1 of 2002- depending on demand. Again, this is a possible accessory and has not been officially planned.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Peter,

Great news about the cyan. I'm still debating on cyan or white for my LS. Do you know if some of the guys testing the new LS models will have access to test the cyan ? I've read the specs on cyan and white, but I would still like to see photos of comparisons of these two leds.

thanks,

sylvestor.


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## Gransee (Oct 7, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sylvestor:
*Hi Peter,

Great news about the cyan. I'm still debating on cyan or white for my LS. Do you know if some of the guys testing the new LS models will have access to test the cyan ? I've read the specs on cyan and white, but I would still like to see photos of comparisons of these two leds.

thanks,

sylvestor.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For some time I have wanted to get at least Craig all the colors of our Arc-AAA so he (if he has the time) can write up a piece on the advantages of each color, etc. The same is true for the LS. To tell the truth, I haven't had all the colors in stock at one time yet.

Looking at the cyans we now have and the orders for them, I will be happy at this point if we can fullfill the orders we have- let alone send an extra for review. 

We could post pictures of one before we ship it out to a customer. But, it would be better if one of the reviewers had one. Maybe someone would be willing to lend one to a reviewer for a week?

Peter Gransee


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## Cyclops942 (Oct 7, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
We could post pictures of one before we ship it out to a customer. But, it would be better if one of the reviewers had one. Maybe someone would be willing to lend one to a reviewer for a week?

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I could do that, since I'm getting both a white and a cyan. Since I'm getting mine through a distributor (TTS- plug, plug), I'll have to wait until I receive it myself to ship it out.

Craig, since I'm getting all three battery packs with both lights, I'll probably ship *you* all three battery packs, unless there are some you don't need. That way you can comment on "fit and finish," if you will.


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## sylvestor (Oct 7, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyclops942:
*I could do that, since I'm getting both a white and a cyan. Since I'm getting mine through a distributor (TTS- plug, plug), I'll have to wait until I receive it myself to ship it out.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Cyclops,

How did you reserve your order with TTS ? I've checked their website, but could not find Arc LS ? (Can you post a link ?)

thanks,

sylvestor.


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## Cyclops942 (Oct 8, 2001)

The order with TTS was via e-mail to a designated recipient at TTS. If you go search the archives, right around the end of July, you'll see posts about a group buy of Arc-LSes through TTS. The cut-off date slips my memory now, but it was either the tail end of July or the first of August.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to e-mail their customer service department and find out if they deliberately over-ordered, but I wouldn't hold my breath too hard at this late date. Then again, maybe they anticipated just this sort of thing. Who knows?

I did not mean to tease anyone with my references to this group buy. I merely wanted to tip my hat (and give a plug for business) to a distributor who had (will) help me out with an order. I apologize to anyone who thought the offer was still open, because, _to my knowledge,_ the offer to get in on the group buy ended at the first of August.


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## sylvestor (Oct 8, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyclops942:
*The order with TTS was via e-mail to a designated recipient at TTS. If you go search the archives, right around the end of July, you'll see posts about a group buy of Arc-LSes through TTS. The cut-off date slips my memory now, but it was either the tail end of July or the first of August.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to e-mail their customer service department and find out if they deliberately over-ordered, but I wouldn't hold my breath too hard at this late date. Then again, maybe they anticipated just this sort of thing. Who knows?

I did not mean to tease anyone with my references to this group buy. I merely wanted to tip my hat (and give a plug for business) to a distributor who had (will) help me out with an order. I apologize to anyone who thought the offer was still open, because, to my knowledge, the offer to get in on the group buy ended at the first of August.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Cyclops,

Just one more question, is TTS selling the LS for the same price as the Arc website ?

thanks,

sylvestor.


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## Cyclops942 (Oct 8, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sylvestor:
*Thanks Cyclops,

Just one more question, is TTS selling the LS for the same price as the Arc website ?

thanks,

sylvestor.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They had a discounted price. That's what attracted me.


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## Artie Choke (Oct 8, 2001)

sylvestor,

i checked w/ TTS last week and they are full up on the first production run, but they will still do the same offer for the second run. find the thread for the group buy and email william - then he'll let you know when the next run is available.


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## dan (Oct 9, 2001)

Just got the AAA-LE. It is very nice. Compared to the CMG and Pelican L1 it is whiter/greener. It seems to be about as bright as the L1.

?







Left to right: CMG, ARC, L1

Mr. Gransee, what is the latest info on the release of the LS


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## dan (Oct 9, 2001)

One other question...

I noticed on the two LE's I have. The O ring protrudes from the case, even when twisting it only enough to turn the light off.


Is this part of the design. Will it still retain it's 3ft waterproof rating?
thanks,
dan


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## Gransee (Oct 9, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dan:
*One other question...

I noticed on the two LE's I have. The O ring protrudes from the case, even when twisting it only enough to turn the light off.


Is this part of the design. Will it still retain it's 3ft waterproof rating?
thanks,
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, as long as the highest point of the o-ring is covered by the lip, otherwise it has been turned too far. You can test this by dunking it. If the head is loosened too far and water does get into the battery compartment, do not worry. The electronics will not be effected since they are sealed in epoxy.

I will post an LS update later this week.

Peter Gransee


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## Quickbeam (Oct 10, 2001)

I have posted a review of the ARC AAA LE on my website - includes pics, beam pics and details.

Peter, let me know if any information is incorrect. Thanks!


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## sunspot (Oct 10, 2001)

Very nice review Doug. BTW, While reading this, my ARC-LE was delivered to me. I also noticed the O-ring looking at me as did Dan. I am at work in an office so no shop tools. I went outside to use the side walk as a sanding surface on the top and bottom of the battery. Off came about 2mm. Tested it in a Mag Solitaire. Worked fine. Than installed the battery in the LE. Goodbye O-ring. It's now below the lip of the body. I'm VERY pleased with the light.	It's going on my keychain now. What a keeper. Now to order a LS


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## Gransee (Oct 10, 2001)

Doug, I checked out your review and everything looked copasetic. I can remember you talking about doing reviews awhile back.

Thanks for the rave reviews Doug and everyone else!

Last night I verified that the second run of LEs does have a problem with the O-ring not being completely covered in the off position. I called the machine shop this morning and told them what changes to make to correct this. For the few people who got a second run unit, there is a retrofit:

Using a soldering iron, remove the solder from the positive contact on the base of the head. This will cause the battery to fit more snugly against the PCB and will drop the o-ring further into the battery compartment so that it is better concealed. If you do not have an iron, or do not want to bother, you can always send it back to us for repair or replacement.

We apologize for the mix-up. We did verify that is what our supplier that changed the dimensions by accident. There where many dimensions that where changed in the head to improve the trueness of the LED, in the process of all these changes, the O-ring height was changed by accident. Of course, it is my fault for not catching it before they went out the door. I apologize and we do stand behind our products with a satisfaction guarantee.

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 10, 2001)

Peter,

Just received 2 ARC-AAA today that I had ordered from BrightGuy and wanted to say I'm impressed. Amazing the amount of light out of something so small. Looking forward to the LS. One question though: one of the lights has what appears to be some white paint(?) on the knurling. What is safe to use to remove it without damaging the anodizing, if that's possible.
Clint


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 10, 2001)

I noticed the same "paint spot" as well. I'm not normally critical of cosmetics as, in this case also, it does not degrade its function. Just curious.


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## Gransee (Oct 10, 2001)

Depends on where this white spot is. If it is around the o-ring, that is a normal "bloom" from the anodizing process. Normally this is concealed below the lip. To touch it up (don't laugh), just use a "sharpy" marker. Since that area is normally not exposed to wear, the ink will stay put relatively well.

If the white spot is elsewhere on the body, then try chipping it off, if that doesn't work, you can send it back for a replacement. We eyeball each one before they go out the door so I am betting that your white spots are both o-ring blooms.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Oct 11, 2001)

Just talked to the shop again. They are tossing the third run heads and starting over. They are going to eat the cost themselves. I will be visiting them tomorrow to look over the new head design and catch any flaws.

I will also see where they are on the LS parts and post an update here.

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 11, 2001)

The white spot on my unit is near the split ring hole. It is about 1mm in diameter and will not scratch off. I didn't even notice it until *ccrowder* mentioned it. No "biggie."





I will photograph my unit "wearing" the protective sheath/sleeve and "lens cap" (I mentioned this in another post) and post it sometime in the next couple of days.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 11, 2001)

I see the spot next to the o-ring, the spot I was talking about is on the knurling on the head (led) portion. It is not something that bothers me enough to exchange. I am giving it to my Dad and wanted to see if I can remove the spot before I give it to him. Great light though Peter.


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## cave dave (Oct 11, 2001)

Peter,

When do we get to see a picture of the production Arc LS?


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## sylvestor (Oct 11, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cave dave:
*Peter,

When do we get to see a picture of the production Arc LS?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Peter,

I would also like to see pictures of the various led colours in action. I can't remember, but I think it was Brock who had pictures of various flashlights which illuminated a figurine which was a few feet away. That is a great idea as it provides some indication as to beam quality/distance/brightness.

thanks,

sylvestor.


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## The_LED_Museum (Oct 11, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*For some time I have wanted to get at least Craig all the colors of our Arc-AAA so he (if he has the time) can write up a piece on the advantages of each color, etc. The same is true for the LS. To tell the truth, I haven't had all the colors in stock at one time yet.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be great!
I did something similar, though on a bit of a smaller scale, with the various Photon II colors last year. This included having pictures of the beams of each color in a single image (collage style) so you could easily see the difference not only in color but in beam configuration as well; and a short blurb about what viewing your world bathed in that color might be like.

Gosh, I should hang out in *this* topic a bit more frequently... but I do tend to avoid "manufacturer's" forums in an effort to remain impartial.


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## The_LED_Museum (Oct 11, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyclops942:
*
Craig, since I'm getting all three battery packs with both lights, I'll probably ship you all three battery packs, unless there are some you don't need. That way you can comment on "fit and finish," if you will.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That might be a good idea, as the only parts I have here are all off the prototype version, and may not even fit a production model illuminator properly for that reason (altered fit & finish, etc.)

I still have three 123 cells left over from the prototype's battery test, so I'll be able to power all configurations properly the day I receive them. 

I'll reserve the one remaining Surefire 123 cell for a specific test; but I can use the others for brief tests in this application as they are more easily replaceable, though they run up to $13 apiece locally






(*OUCH*!!!)


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## The_LED_Museum (Oct 11, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quickbeam:
*I have posted a review of the ARC AAA LE on my website - includes pics, beam pics and details.

Peter, let me know if any information is incorrect. Thanks!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gosh, I've got some serious competition on my hands now. Your website looks better than mine, and I like your page layout.

I'd change mine, but with over 200 individual pages of 10-40K apiece (not including pictures) and dozens of font & color tags in each one; imagine what a pain in the *** that would be.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 11, 2001)

Craig, sounds like you might need to think about using cascading style sheets for your web page. Then when you get inspired (i.e. feel like someone has a better looking site than you) you can easily update!


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## The_LED_Museum (Oct 11, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by melmso:
*Craig, sounds like you might need to think about using cascading style sheets for your web page. Then when you get inspired (i.e. feel like someone has a better looking site than you) you can easily update!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem is, they don't work on Netscape.
I've already got a style sheet in place, and found that out the hard way.


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## Chris M. (Oct 12, 2001)

_I have posted a review of the ARC AAA LE on my website _

Nice work Doug- welcome to the world of Reviewing. Hopefully you`ll be better at it than I am, but let`s face it, that won`t be hard to beat based on my past form






_I'd change mine, but with over 200 individual pages of 10-40K apiece (not including pictures) and dozens of font & color tags in each one; imagine what a pain in the *** that would be_

I know how it feels- I`m in the process of redesigning my whole site for a near(ish)-future relaunch which will see it split into 2-1/2 seperate sites. My reviews especially, will have a new and, er, let`s say *Unique* colour scheme. Thankfully there isn`t quite as much of it as Craig`s, but the new look comes with a new review format so hopefully it won`t be too long before I begin to catch up! 

_Problem is, they don't work on Netscape._

Ah the joys of web design! You create a page format that looks great on your computer, then try it out on someone elses, with a different screen resolution or a different browser only to find it`s all over the place!





Well....keeps us web nerds busy I suppose.....


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## Quickbeam (Oct 12, 2001)

_Gosh, I've got some serious competition on my hands now. Your website looks better than mine, and I like your page layout._







Now THAT'S what I call a compliment! Thank you Craig, but I think it will take a very long time before I actually become "competition"! I think, by far, you are the master of the reviews!

_Nice work Doug- welcome to the world of Reviewing._

Thanks Chris! Only problem is I spent SOOOO much money on the new digital camera my wife will probably kill me if I buy a flashlight for at least a year



. I'll have to get by on loaners and "professional evaluation samples" for some time.





So, Peter, if you want to toss a production ARC LS my way, I'll be happy to do a review






I'll even send it back



if you wish or pass it on to another reviewer - just to post the review is fine by me!

As for a website "not working on Netscape" - I just had to write off Netscape. No time to make sure the site is "all browser friendly"... Sorry folks



more people use IE now so I had to go with the popular vote....


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## The_LED_Museum (Oct 12, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quickbeam:
*
As for a website "not working on Netscape" - I just had to write off Netscape. No time to make sure the site is "all browser friendly"... Sorry folks



more people use IE now so I had to go with the popular vote....*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, I don't have much choise in the matter. A lot of my repeat visitors use Netscape, and I couldn't begin to imagine how fast my mailbox would fill up & overflow like a bad toilet if I suddenly changed to a format that provided those users with messed up pages. :-O

With the site ringing up 4,000 to 10,000 visits a day, and occasional spikes of 50,000+ a day; even if the majority use IE, that still leaves an awful lot of Netscape users I need to keep happy as well.

The weekend is supposed to suck, and the big box of repair parts for my video game didn't show up (no Saturday deliveries here either) so what better to do than start retooling my website?

Well, I guess I need my wrist slapped for throwing this room off topic... better get this train back on the tracks and start talking about that Arc LS.


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## hmmwv (Oct 14, 2001)

I used to be a LOYAL netscape follower - but with AOL's takeover (and the ASSociated popup ads) I dropped netscape and went solid IE and never looked back - IE has a better java system than the AOL fools can come up with, and handles HTML better than netscape. 

I used to run netscape because it ran on my unix platforms - but IE runs on just about anything, so there is no real incentive to support an AOL company any more. 

I suspect the future for netscape isn't pretty - there isn't room for more than 1 real standard, and the lions share of browsers that hit my web servers are all ie5, ie5.x, or ie6 today. I'd be focusing all web development across those platforms.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 14, 2001)

Peter + Arc lovers,
I am intrigued by the concept of the Nightstar (Kinetic rechargeable) flashlight but have read it has a low quality light output.
Is there any chance of Arc developing such a light that uses no batteries and has a light output that might beat or at least equal an Arc AAA's brightness?
That would be the ultimate in all-time reliabilty for places where even AC/DC rechargeable light technologies couldn't venture.


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## Gransee (Oct 14, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by melmso:
*Peter + Arc lovers,
I am intrigued by the concept of the Nightstar (Kinetic rechargeable) flashlight but have read it has a low quality light output.
Is there any chance of Arc developing such a light that uses no batteries and has a light output that might beat or at least equal an Arc AAA's brightness?
That would be the ultimate in all-time reliabilty for places where even AC/DC rechargeable light technologies couldn't venture.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, several variations have been considered and one may become a future product. Sorry I can't provide more detail at this time! 

Peter


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## Gransee (Oct 14, 2001)

Is everyone having a good weekend?




As promised, here is an Update:

There has been more delays. The schedule has been pushed back. 

Why all the delays? I shouldn't have been so fast at trying to predict a finish date. Granted, this is a new product and there are always going to be gremlins, but as this company matures, we will be able to better predict and avoid delays. 

The biggest delay has been with the machine shop. They didn't actually start cutting production metal until last week. This was due to labor shortages (hard to imagine in this economy) and machine problems (a key machine was incognito for 3 weeks). I should have gotten a better handle on these delays and posted more realistic estimates in this forum on when the product would actually be done.

At any rate, I will now give you a more accurate picture of where we are at.

This past week, our electrical contractor solved a major problem with removing LS LEDs from their stock boards. This step is required to keep the Arc-LS flashlight compact. I was so pleased with the tech who came up with the solution that I paid him a cash bonus the same day. This problem was the largest hurdle to a practical Arc-LS flashlight.

I visited with our primary machine shop Friday with the express task of nailing down a delivery date for the metal Arc-LS parts. 

We white boarded their schedule several times. The first draft had them using one machine at a time and finishing half of the order by the end of November! Like I said, one of the reasons for the delay was that they are short handed. We talked about their labor issues, their increased military orders, the problems with having to train new machinists at this point, etc. They agreed to involve two more machines and said they might be able to have the parts by the end of this month. That would put us shipping by the middle of the November.

At this point though, I would rather not commit to any date for when the order system will be opened and when we will ship. I honestly do not know. However, I think we will have a progressively better idea as steps are completed.

I would like to open the order system up once the machining is done and the parts are at the anodizers. The idea is to keep to less than 2-3 weeks the time between when the first order is placed and when the first order is shipped.

I know people are patiently waiting for this flashlight to be completed. I would like to better communicate our schedule without revealing any confidential manufacturing information.

Here is a typical product development/production process:

1. Design
2. Protoype
3. Test
4. Gather user opinions, discuss with communtity, etc.
5. Order some parts that are sure
6. Prelim discussion with contractors about product schedule, processes, etc
7. Refine design
8. Lock design (as much as possible)
9. Estimate demand (refined)
10. Order remaining parts
11. Outline schedule/process with contractors
12. Issue POs to contractors
13. Evaluate manufacturing in process for efficiency improvements, quality control
14. Completed manufacture of components
15. Final Assembly
16. Test
17. Ship!

Here are some major steps for the Arc-LS:

- Prove Design (100%)
- Assemble electronic PCBs (90% done, was waiting on LED problem, now finishing up)
- Machine parts (20% done, lens collar done, internal parts next, body, power packs still to do)
- Anodizing (0%, must be done after machining)
- Engraving (0%, must be done after anodizing)
- Final assembly (0%, most can be done while engraving)
- Testing (0%)
- Order fulfillment (0%)

To save time, we are able to have at least two contractors working on the LS at any given point.

The machining and PCBs are the most time consuming part of the manufacturing. The remaining steps (anodizing, engraving, etc) will take less than 3 weeks to complete.

Hopefully this provides a better idea of where we are at.

Peter Gransee

Trivia: An Arc-LS contains 25 parts not including the battery.


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## JonSidneyB (Oct 15, 2001)

Do what you must to get the LS project completed. I think all of us understand the delays. Look forward to actually being able to purchase. As a side note, I now have every Arc-AAA color except orange. When I get that one, the set will be complete. Of course if you bring out more variations of the Arc-AAA, I will just have to buy more. I do not know what others will think of this but I am wondering if you should drop the standard finish and make everything hard finish. Would love to see and Arc-AAA available with the same finish you will be using on the Arc-LS. Would love to see both black and grey become available as hard finishs with the Arc-AAA and would like to see the Arc-LS also eventually be available in natural, grey, and black.

The blue CPF light would be a nice addition as well.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 15, 2001)

Peter (Gransee),

As with the many posts you've placed on this BB, you are equally (if not more) informative with this one. Thanks for the update. I'm sure I speak for many, if not all, in this BB that we would rather purchase a complete product than an under-developed one. I'm certain that the ARC LS will be worth the wait.


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## Badbeams3 (Oct 15, 2001)

Thanks for the update Peter, somehow it makes the waiting more tolarable...I wish more companies would take your lead.

Ken


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## JollyRoger (Oct 15, 2001)

Thanks, Peter. While I think that many of us are getting frustrated (I know I am), I think you're very fortunate to have such a loyal customer base! You make an excellent product, and this says a lot about the quality of your future products. I thank you for keeping us so informed during the manufacturing process...I can't think of any other manufacturer that has such a close relationship with its customers. Hopefully, the ARC LS's will ship in time for Christmas by now...For your company's sake, I hope you can find some way to meet full demand for delivery by Christmas...(so you can get all those Christmas orders! I know I want to order two more, but am afraid the second run will be delayed until after X-mas???)

...isn't this date now getting close to the release of your next (brighter) ARC LS? Or is that still 3 or 4 months in the future?


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## Gransee (Oct 15, 2001)

Thanks everyone for being amaziningly patient, I don't want to let you down.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by roger:
*Thanks, Peter. While I think that many of us are getting frustrated (I know I am), I think you're very fortunate to have such a loyal customer base! You make an excellent product, and this says a lot about the quality of your future products. I thank you for keeping us so informed during the manufacturing process...I can't think of any other manufacturer that has such a close relationship with its customers. Hopefully, the ARC LS's will ship in time for Christmas by now...For your company's sake, I hope you can find some way to meet full demand for delivery by Christmas...(so you can get all those Christmas orders! I know I want to order two more, but am afraid the second run will be delayed until after X-mas???)

...isn't this date now getting close to the release of your next (brighter) ARC LS? Or is that still 3 or 4 months in the future?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, we are supposed to be getting Lambertian amber and reds towards the end of November. But they won't make it into Arc-LS's until the second run (which hopefully will already have started by that time).

Peter Gransee


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## Cyclops942 (Oct 15, 2001)

Peter,

With all due respect, *you go, guy!*





Keep plugging away at the problems, and we'll keep waiting as patiently as we can. I would much rather wait while you work out the kinks than get a sub-standard product earlier. Apparently, I'm not alone.

I thank you again for being so frank and open with us about the delays and what is causing them. (I also thank you for not taking our money until you're ready to ship!



)

Keep the quality high, and the buyers will follow. You know, the old "better mousetrap" thing.


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## Gransee (Oct 17, 2001)

Thank you Kris.

Btw, we got the blue LS LEDs in today. We now will have all the colors ready for the first run.

Peter Gransee

Btw, Nichia lowered our UV price so we are passing this along. It's not much but you can take $5 off the Arc-AAA UV now. The website and the distributors should be updated with this ASAP.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 22, 2001)

Thanks Peter!

I received the replacements for the Arc-AAA LE Saturday. Thanks a lot! These are fine. Looking forward to the Arc-LS!


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## Gransee (Oct 22, 2001)

Your welcome Devon!

Btw, here's a small update...

Talked to the machine shop today. The LS collars and half of the internal machined parts have been completed.

Also visited the electronic assembler today and looked over the LS PCB line. Looking very good. Just like the AAA product, we test each PCB before it goes into a flashlight. With the LS, we will also test the LEDs seperately (since there are so many variations) and reject 2-3 percent of the LS LEDs. This will mean that only the brightest ones are used. Even so, there will be slight variations in brightness and tint as no 2 LS LEDs are the same from the factory anyways.

We are back ordered on the Arc-AAA UV's in a big way. We hope to ship all of them by wednesday of next week. 

Btw, shipping costs (postage and packaging) for the Arc-LS is going to be more expensive than the Arc-AAA for obvious reasons- they are about 10 times heavier. They shouldn't be that many times more expensive though.

For direct orders, I am researching some options (thanks for all the suggestions) and I will post our shipping costs here and on the web site.

Peter Gransee


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## JonSidneyB (Oct 22, 2001)

I hope I am not asking a question that has already been addressed. What is the estimated time of order taking for the Arc-LS going to be. I have already got my name on the reservation list.


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## sylvestor (Oct 22, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
Btw, shipping costs (postage and packaging) for the Arc-LS is going to be more expensive than the Arc-AAA for obvious reasons- they are about 10 times heavier. They shouldn't be that many times more expensive though.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Peter,

How much does the arc LS actually weigh ? Do you know if any of the reviewers have posted pictures of the LS in action ?

thanks,

sylvestor


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 22, 2001)

Sylvestor,

Craig has a nice review done on the ARC LS prototype at http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/arcls.htm 
Clint


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## 007 (Oct 25, 2001)

How about cutting Mr. Gransee some slack, the guy does have a business to run...

Don't get me wrong, we appreciate his updates and CPF participation - but come on..
I personally don't expect him (Gransee) to give instant responses.


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## Gransee (Oct 25, 2001)

Thanks 007. Hey Jon. I will post another LS update this weekend.

Making sure you guys stay reasonably informed is a high priority for me. It has been crazy lately though. I apologize if the info has been slow or skimpy on details.

In other news, we are now using a third party fulfillment house. This means when shipping, the packages will originate from a Phoenix address. Please continue to use our Mesa address for returns, etc.

This change was made because the shipping was starting to get too much to handle!

Also, this move has allowed us to switch from USPS to UPS for all domestic orders without increasing our shipping costs. The benefit: Tracking numbers! (and free insurance).

Peter Gransee


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## WillnTex (Oct 25, 2001)

Not to mention UPS does not lose as many.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 25, 2001)

Gransee...

Just got my ARC LE...and I love it. One quick idea is you may want to start adding batteries. I think you may be the only flashlight company that doesn't include a battery with their flashlights. Certainly every flashlight I've bought in recent time has come with batteries (Princeton TEC, UK, Photon, SureFire).

For me it didn't matter because I have a huge stock of batteries, but if I didn't it would have been disappointing.


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## JollyRoger (Oct 25, 2001)

While I agree that batteries would be a plus, I don't think they should be added...unless they add minimal cost, etc.

I think the ARC products are enough of a specialty item...maybe batteries could be included if the products are marketed to the mass public...like the Mag-lite packages you see....or the Dorcy or Energizer flashlights. However, just buying the ARC for what it is...I'm plenty happy with that!


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## JonSidneyB (Oct 26, 2001)

Whats become of Gransee, 
miss my Arc-LS updates. Still interested in what the expected date that we can put in our orders.


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## Gransee (Oct 27, 2001)

Thanks for your input! A battery compartment has already been included in the blister pack mold for the retail packaging.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Oct 27, 2001)

Update for week ending 10/27/01:

We are still on schedule to ship the Arc-AAA UV's this coming Thursday. 

Visited with the electronics contractor and all the first run Arc-LS boards are done. We have finished PCBs with LEDs in every color (white, amber, red, green, blue, cyan).

The machine shop is still pluggin along. They have outsourced some of the work to another shop to help share the load. The other shop will be producing all the power packs. The first shop has completed all the outer pieces of the LS head and half of the internal items.

They now have a second machine working on the Arc-LS parts. This machine is a Storm-80 (made by our friends in England).







Here's a closeup of it machining the middle collar.





Here's a closeup of the finished middle collar. This gives some idea of how the knurling will look on the head.






Next week they should finish the inner machined parts and then we will be waiting on the power packs. I am planning on running one of the production heads through the anodizing process with one of the proto power packs so you can see what a completed unit in anodized finish looks like.

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Oct 27, 2001)

Sounds great Peter. Thanks for the update.

Clint


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## Mike (Oct 30, 2001)

I just got my first Arc AAA yesterday. I've been following the posts about this since the beginning so I wasn't surprised about anything. I really like it and it will definitely be with me almost all the time. The LED was perfectly centered.

The light output of this turquoise LED blows away the light output of my Mag Solitare (1 AAA).

I plan to carry it in the watch pocket of my jeans by itself in order to keep the LED and reflector from getting scratched up.

After using it I don't think it needs a switch. I don't like 2AA maglites where each time you turn it on you have to adjust the beam. The ARC takes a small twist for turn on/off.

Good job Gransee!


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## Gransee (Nov 3, 2001)

Weekly Update:

We got caught up on the Arc-AAA UV's yesterday and shipped most of the orders for them with the rest going out Monday. We have completed our switch to the outside fullfillment house but they are still getting up to speed.

Retail packaging has passed another milestone and is closer to being completed.

Spoke to the machine shop yesterday and they have begun working on the last inside piece. After this, the power packs will be all that remain. I think I will consider ourselves fortunate if we can ship by the end of the month.

Maybe next week I will be able to post a picture of the first production model?

Peter Gransee


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## K Horn (Nov 3, 2001)

Well it looks like a its going to be a close race between; The LS, The Fusion,and The X-box. 
Wow I don't think my heart or my wallet can survive this month or take all this suspense.


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## cave dave (Nov 4, 2001)

I had a coversation with Peter on the phone the other day. Great Guy, and he sure likes to talk. This guy must eat sleep and breath flashlights. He quoted off the market share of the flashlight industry, among other things.

Anyway, we got to talking about the retail packaging.
I think it will be tough to convey what a great light the Arc AAA is. Especially when looking at some of the outrageous claims some of the other companies make.
Maybe "Official flashlight of the Candle Power Forums" just wouldn't be enough.





How about including a runtime graph like the one here on the back of the package?






I had to make up the Arc runtime but the Red curve is from Craig's post on the Photon 3.
Any other ideas from the members?

PS Peter go ahead and take a break, the LS will be here soon enough, I'll wait.


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## lightlover (Nov 4, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*.......... machine working on the Arc-LS parts. This machine is a Storm-80 (made by our friends in England). ...............
Here's a closeup of it machining the middle collar. ............ 
Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Made in England ! Made in ENGLAND !! Wow !!! (We made and then sold something to the States ...... )
Let's all hope the *thing* manages not to break down every month.

Although seriously, Mr. Gransee, I would enjoy to see more photos of the manufacturing of the Arc models.
That kind of thing makes me so interested - why, when you posted a photo of that gorgeous Korean machine, I had to take a cold bath. (Something we Brits do, sometimes.)

lightlover


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## yclo (Nov 4, 2001)

I agree, there's nothing like buying a well engineered piece of art and seeing what it looks like during the various stages of production!!





YC


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## dan (Nov 5, 2001)

Mr Gransee,
I know it is not a priority with the LS release pending, but do you know when the third run of LE's will be released. (With the adjusted O-ring/head)

thanks,
dan


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## Cyclops942 (Nov 5, 2001)

Cold baths? Cold *baths*?! Bah! Over here in the States, we take it standing up, like a man! We take cold *showers*!!!!!













{Sorry, I couldn't resist!)


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 6, 2001)

Don't forget to get your orders in soon for ARCs in time for Xmas!

The Dude


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## 007 (Nov 6, 2001)

Hey F-Dude, I hope Santa brings me the cool new ARC LS. Yeeeehawwww!

James


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 6, 2001)

One thing's for sure. The ARC-LS would brighten our Christmas.


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## Harrkev (Nov 7, 2001)

I saw that Stingmon posted something yesterday about a version 2.2 Arc-AA. Is this true? What are the main differences between this and the 2.1. Is my light obsolete already???

And I thought that Microsoft made people upgrade often


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## Gransee (Nov 7, 2001)

"*something ridiculous" and "yclo": look for some more pictures soon.





Dan, the third run will be shipping to the distributors later this week. I am pleased with how they looked! We solved several problems including the O-ring, pos contact, centering, keyloop finish and others. As they say, third time is a charm.

A note about centering of the LED: With the third run, it is about as good as it going to get. Each LED is slightly different from the next one from Nichia. So each one will be slightly off angle when placed in the collar. We test the finished flashlight by placing them on a flat surface and rolling them several times (without the key ring attached). Shining on a surface 6 inches away, the beam center should not deviate more than 3/4 inches per revolution.

We instituted this test after the second run when we found some that where quite off.

Flashlight Dude, Guy and 007: I visited with both machine shops today and I now think we can make it by Christmas. It will be close though.

Harrkev (I always think of _Dune_ when I see your name): Your light is not obsolete and you don't have to "upgrade". That said, I am a perpetual perfectionist and we are always making improvements (ok, usally they are improvements!) to our products. This is not a plot to get you buy more flashlights. We improve our product because- when we find a way to make it better, we can't stand to continue to make them the old way.

I have a buddy that has an old 1.0 turquiose. I wish he would let me replace it with a newer one but he says he has no problems with it. He also like the fact that is has the narrow (bow tie) beam.

I was visiting one of our newest distributors today (Arizona Tactical) and looked at their impressive collection of Surefires and Streamlights. They all use xenon bulbs of course. Whoowee! Those are some bright lights guys. What can I say. LED is the future though, no doubt about it.

About the upcoming LS release: Thanks for being patient with us, I don't like waiting for new technology either. You guys are top notch. The toughest part is definately behind us though and things are looking good. 

Some people are probally wondering what kind of quality the first run will have. Look at our track record with you (both for the good and the bad). The Arc-AAA went through a lot of changes before it reached its present state. The Arc-LS will also be improved over time. But there are lessons that we have learned with the Arc-AAA that we will not need to relearn with the LS. We now test for centering, we use standard o-rings, silicon greese, gold contacts, improved retainer material, etc. These are all a result of lessons learned with the Arc-AAA. 

With the Arc-LS we built more prototypes and tested them for a longer time as a result of learning from the Arc-AAA. Remember, the reason we sent them to Craig and Brock (and later Chris got one) was to make sure we weren't missing anything. This is a $100 flashlight, we can't be too carefull.

The 1.0 production LS will be different from the prototype LS. So far we have changed the knurling a couple of times, the lens assembly, circuit board layout and many other changes.

Will gremlins pop up in the LS that will require a revision? Count on it- we do. But you should know by now that we stand behind our products.

Some people will not order the first run because they want to see how they do. I completely agree with this reasoning. You should decided on what you are comfortable with. If you are worried about gremlins in the first run, please wait for a later run. 

Others want to start using the flashlight right away and they have learned that we will stick with them. Some are buying to get a serialize unit for their impressive collections. And still others have never bought from us but they are satisfied that we have taken the right precautions with this run.

Be aware (I am sure you are) that anytime a new product comes out, there is a certain amount of hype. And when it does finally arrive, the reality usally doesn't measure up to the expectation. 

You will make the right decision, I just don't like it when people are let down. I would rather exceed your expectations. So for my own selfish benefit, here's some anti-hype



Yes, it is bright, but it is not the brightest light out there. Yes, it brighter than any other LED flashlight its size, but that may not be what you are looking for. It is expensive. Very expensive. You may be happier with something more affordable. It doesn't have a push-button switch. It doesn't run on D cells. You can't focus the lens. An incandescant flashlight will be brighter for the same size. When you see it, it may be bigger or smaller than you expected. If you set it on it's side, it may roll of the table. 

Although it won't have the kind of rings that an incandescent flashlight does, the LS LED does not produce a perfect beam either. We have improved it from the prototype but under the right conditions, expect to see a squarish beam with 4 die bond marks on each corner or some variation on this. This is normal.

Thank you for humoring me. I think we all have been let down by new products that where hyped out of this world. 

Look for an update on the Arc-LS this weekend.

Peter Gransee
President, Arc Flashlight


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## K Horn (Nov 7, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
[ Thank you for humoring me. I think we all have been let down by new products that where hyped out of this world. 

Peter Gransee
President, Arc ][/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LET DOWN BY NEW PRODUCTS???? Only those of us stupid enough to buy Version 1.0 of anything from MicroSoft!!!




Your products so-far have been nothing short of great!
I look forward to my LS birthday, ah er...Labor Day, ummmm Marine Corps Birthday...yikes CHRISTMAS PRESENT


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## Gransee (Nov 8, 2001)

Early Update:

We ran several production LS heads and power packs trough the anodizer earlier this week to test the finishing process. We got them back today and here is what they look like:

...Then there where three (from top: Arc-AAA LE, Arc-LS w/123 pack, Arc-LS w/2AA pack).





Arc-LS w/123 pack closeup. Note test pack has wide knurling but production units has a more narrow knurling band (we think it looks better). Although the battery pack is going to look slightly different with the production unit, the illuminator head is 100% production design.





Closeup of Arc-LS w/2AA pack. Note the 2AA test pack does not have knurling. The production units have two thin bands of knurling.





Inside detail. Note battery retainer ("foam thingy") and cobalt/gold battery contact.





Beam detail for white LED. Although the beam is pretty clean and centered, it does have the normally "blobbyness" of the Luxeon Star (caused by die geometry and bond points).






All in all, this test run was a very good thing since we made about a half dozen more changes. Changes that will all make it into the first run and shouldn't add any more delays.

One of the changes is that we are adding a corrosion resistant coating to the interior called "ChemKote". It gives the aluminum a yellowish color and helps improve it's corrosion resistance. This helps protect it against rogue batteries, salt water, etc.

We are also making another major retrofit to the PCB to help center the colors better.

The masking for the anodize process turned out to be easier that we thought. This was a pleasant surprise and will help save time.

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 8, 2001)

Peter,
Very nice. These are very much anticipated photos. I notice that the LSs are the same color as the AAA. Are all three HA? Have you decided adding the natural finish to the black one as described in your web page. It wouldn't bother me.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 8, 2001)

Oh no! Did the AA pack get the dump???
That was the one I was craving.


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## Gransee (Nov 9, 2001)

Kogatana: Yes, all three are Type III HA in natural finish.

Melmso: The 1AA pack will be ready with the 123 and 2AA packs. The 2 packs that where tested where sufficient to prove the anodize process.

Peter


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## Mike (Nov 9, 2001)

I agree with Chris regarding the knurling. It would look better if it didn't pieces of fuzz from my pocket stuck on it.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 9, 2001)

Will there be any black HA available for the first production run or will they all be natural HA?


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## Gransee (Nov 9, 2001)

Good point about the knurling, I have talked to the machinists about it. We'll do one up once things quiet down around here and see how it looks.

Black type III for the LS? Natural is the only color it will be offered in for the forseable future. This is the color the CPF'ers voted for.

Peter Gransee


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## Brock (Nov 9, 2001)

Peter will there be knurling on the body of the LS AA? I was just thinking about it, if you had gloves on the body of the light would be hard to hold from spinning if it is smooth. I even noticed that on the prototype, but that was just plain aluminum.


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## Gransee (Nov 9, 2001)

Yes, all the power packs will have knurling. The single cell packs (123, 1AA) will have 1 band and the 2AA pack will have two bands. The idea is that the light should be easy to turn on with wet ski gloves, etc.

Btw, the laser engraving will be printed on the very top collar and be the same color as the printing on the LE (an off-white).

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 9, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Good point about the knurling, I have talked to the machinists about it. We'll do one up once things quiet down around here and see how it looks.

Black type III for the LS? Natural is the only color it will be offered in for the forseable future. This is the color the CPF'ers voted for.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I obviously missed that discussion about the natural color vice black. I thought it was going to be offered only in black. HA III in natural is fine by me!


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## yclo (Nov 9, 2001)

Say, isn't the E2 HA natural colour as well?
Does that mean E2 and LS will be a similar colour?

YC


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## Gransee (Nov 9, 2001)

Well, the Arc-LS is quite close to the color of an SF E1 I have here.

This is the color that results when you apply type III without any dye to aluminum. Each grade of aluminum results in a different hue. "Natural" color means that is the natural color without any dyes applied. Some people also call it clear, green HA, etc.

The dye does not effect the strength of the finish from what I understand. People just leave it out because it looks nice (that is our reason). Leaving the dye out with type II results in a light grey color. Colors can be applied to type III and usually are more dull in appearance than type II.

Type III is more expensive, takes longer and it thicker than Type II. From what I understand, Type II soaks into the metal and changes a thin layer of it whereas Type III soaks in and coats it with very hard .001 inch or so layer. I have dulled knives with it.

Btw, the ChemKote has many names as well. Our plating contractor is quite good and he can rattle off about 20 names for it. One I remember is "alodine". It also has a Mil-Spec designation and the military likes to coat electrical equipment with it.

Peter


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## yclo (Nov 9, 2001)

Nice... it'll be a 'matching' colour to surefires then i guess, not that I have any of them.

Oh and thanks for the email Peter, I'll probably do that once exams are over.

YC

P.S. I also found a cheapo AAA cell that was shorter, and the LE actually screws all the way in to turn on! I now understand what you mean.


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## Chris M. (Nov 10, 2001)

Looking great- I can`t wait to see the finished light!


Just a thought, but have you tried, or could you perhaps try, that "wider" knurling on the A-AAA? The only little quibble I have over the design of the current AAA is that extremely fine nail-file-like knurling- it attract dirt and dust in my pockets that is hard to get off, and also the one on my keychain is very worn now- all those tiny little "points" made in the knurling are succeptible to wearing off.

As I said- it`s just a minor thing, I havn`t mentioned this before, or in my review, as I don`t feel it affects the overall performance of the light, but as a _personal opinion_, I think the LS`s knurling up there would work really well on the AAA`s barrel (maybe still with the finer grip on the head), nicer than the current finish.


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## JonSidneyB (Nov 10, 2001)

This looks fantastic, I think I will love this light. Hope some day we see maybe a version of the battery pack (123)with a more centered lanyard ring for those of us who want to keep one on a keychain. Also would like to see other color options in the future such as grey or black. Also hope someday you will consider a single D and C cell lights.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 10, 2001)

How does this compare to the output of an E-2 comparing the LS w/ 2 AA pack installed?


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## Chris M. (Nov 10, 2001)

_How does this compare to the output of an E-2 comparing the LS w/ 2 AA pack installed? _

Here you go....


<center>



</center>


As you can see, the poor ALS is a little drowned out by the impressive E2. I don`t have an E1 but expect that little one would be on a par with the ALS.

Just in case you wondered, here`s the ALS-2AA`s size comparison with a Mag 2AA, and the E2.

<center>



</center>


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 10, 2001)

You can also find photos of Arc-LS lightbeam using the 3 power packs compared to other flashlights in this Toliet Testing!  topic thread.

- verge -


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 10, 2001)

Peter,
I just wanted to say that the photograph of your latest product on the ARC web page is fitting for the quality, no-nonsense professional illumination tool that the ARC will be for some of us. The backdrop of tools in this photo is quite appropriate.


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## sylvestor (Nov 11, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Peter,

Do you know how much shipping charges would be for the ARC LS with all 3 power packs to Canada ?

thanks,

sylvestor.


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## cybersoga (Nov 11, 2001)

Can't wait to get my hands on one of those Arc LS torches! I was wondering will/does the production model have a protective clear plastic cover over the end where the light comes out to protect the reflector from being scratched when it's in ones pocket?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 11, 2001)

Just wondering- If I was using batteries that were half used would the LS still produce a good quantity of light output? I am hoping that it would use up my AA batteries that are too dead to use in my incandescent lights but would perform well with Arcs step-up circuitry.

Also I am intrigued with the 123 model now. What are the main difference in light output and endurence between the 123 and AA in the final production model?
(Sorry if this has been already asked)


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 12, 2001)

From the toliet test thread it apppears that the 123 is as bright as the 2 AA. 
I can't remember if Chris used lithium AA's.
Would this boost the AA output?


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## Chris M. (Nov 12, 2001)

_I can't remember if Chris used lithium AA's._

No, I didn`t, not for those photos. BTW my eye says 2AAs just slightly beats the Sanyo CR123 used in that round of photos.

_Would this boost the AA output?_

Yep. See the topic of mine entitled "Another round of Arc-LS testing" in the LED forum, the graph on page 1 shows various discharge curves based on the brightness of the light over time, with different battery configurations and types. The 2-AA-Lithium (older type L91 purple-top Energizers) configuration gave the brightest initial output.


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## Chris M. (Nov 12, 2001)

_I was wondering will/does the production model have a protective clear plastic cover over the end where the light comes out to protect the reflector from being scratched when it's in ones pocket? _

The reflector is actually a one-piece prismatic lens, and it does not seem that there will be a seperate cover over it. It is, however, fairly well recessed on the prototype I have here, and although it is a fairly soft plastic, I`d expect that normal use would not see it damaged too easilly. Maybe a little easier than a regular LED, but not so much as to severely impair the output too soon.


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## dan (Nov 12, 2001)

Peter,

Can you clarify... re the LS

What is the lense material made of?
What is it's relative hardness?
How hard/expensive is it to repair the head if damaged?
thanks
dan


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## Gransee (Nov 12, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kogatana:
*Peter,
I just wanted to say that the photograph of your latest product on the ARC web page is fitting for the quality, no-nonsense professional illumination tool that the ARC will be for some of us. The backdrop of tools in this photo is quite appropriate. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sylvestor:
*Hi Peter,

Do you know how much shipping charges would be for the ARC LS with all 3 power packs to Canada ?

thanks,

sylvestor.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

$12.50 shipped by USPS Air.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dan:
*Peter,

Can you clarify... re the LS

What is the lense material made of?
What is it's relative hardness?
How hard/expensive is it to repair the head if damaged?
thanks
dan*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chris is right, the lens/reflector is a one piece prismatic lens. It is fairly soft but it also recessed to protect it from most threats. This is the same idea as what we use on the Arc-AAA. If the scratch is small, it can be buffed out with a plastic lens scratch remover. Major damage would require the entire head to be replaced.

Peter


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## sylvestor (Nov 13, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Peter,

Do you have any updates on the ARC LS ? Sorry to bother you.... I'm just anxiously waiting to get mine...

sylvestor.


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## Gransee (Nov 13, 2001)

I might be able to post one this Friday.

Peter


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## Darell (Nov 14, 2001)

Yikes. I just registered for this board this morning, quickly discoverd that the ARC lights are da bomb, and now I've read the 16 pages (!) of this thread. 

Now, for the questions:
When the latest brighter ARC AAA was mentioned on the first page of this thread is was called "special edition" then quickly called the ARC AAA (XL). Many pages later, it seemed to be called the LE. So, are these all the same light? SE, XL and LE? There is just the regular one, and this fancy new one right (in the AAA department)?

OK, let's assume it is called the LE for now. So where do I buy it? I don't see a place to order it on the ARC site or at TTS.
<edit - Found them at TTS, no prob! Version 3 coming in a few days. Heck, I even found them on the ARC site>

Something I need to point out on the ARC site is that clicking on "more information" next to the flashlights simply whisks you right back to the page you're viewing. Is there more info? Looks like it is all there, so why the link?

OK, enough from me. These lights look fantastic, and I can't wait to try one. I just need to know how to get my hands on the LE (I think).

Thanks for such a responsive thread!
- Darell


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 14, 2001)

If you want to order the ARC LE you could just call TTS at 1-877-4POLICE. The LE is not on the website but they should have it. I think they have some special deal for the LE as well. Enjoy!


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## Darell (Nov 14, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LIGHT:
*If you want to order the ARC LE you could just call TTS at 1-877-4POLICE.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Light. And here I just got off the phone with them about something else Duhhh!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 18, 2001)

Peter,

I seem to be especially hard on plastic lens



... I just had an idea for the ARC-LS ... clear synthetic sapphire crystals are readily available for watches ... perhaps I could cement one to the ARC-LS to protect it? How deep is the recess from the front edge to the lens?

Rickster


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 19, 2001)

Peter, 
It seems the Arc LE is doing pretty well!
I have one and they are an absolute brilliant light. Now what does this mean for the standard white Arc AAA's future? I for certain would love to be able to buy another LE in the future preffered to a standard AAA. Are they to be as their name states 'Limited edition' or will they live on?


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## Gransee (Nov 20, 2001)

Rickster, the mod you described should work ok. The lens is recessed .110 inches. The tricky part would be keeping air bubbles out of the epoxy. Be warned though, your light output will be reduced.

Melmso, one of my buddies chuckled the other day when he overheard me say on the phone, "yah, we are in the third run of the limited edition". He thought it was ironic. I agree, but you can't be too carefull. We went through most of this year with no S-ranks available and then 15k showed up a couple of months ago. I checked today and they where down to a couple hundred B1Ss so I ordered them all. They have no idea when they will get any more.

If Nicha doesn't get any more for a long time, then we will have to make do with what we have stored up. This might take a couple of months to burn through. Once they are gone, we will add the natural finish to the standard lineup with a standard LED. You'll notice our part numbers already show this thinking.

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 20, 2001)

Peter,

Thanks for the info. My approach would be to use alpha-cyanoacrylic just on the circumference of the crystal to avoid light loss. The .110 depth is fine. I believe the crystals are in the range of .050 to .1 thick. What is the I.D. of the flange?

Rick


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## Gransee (Nov 20, 2001)

The ID of the flange is .700 inches at the lens.

Peter


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## DebtFree (Nov 21, 2001)

Peter,

I enjoy my Arc lights. Thank you for producing such outstanding products.

However, ever since the AAA LE arrived, I have read posts about how bright it is, and what an improvement it is over the standard Arc AAA. I don't see it. The color is not as blue, but the improvement in brightness is marginal.

Have I got a bum light? Or, do you agree the difference is slim.

Thanks,


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## geepondy (Nov 21, 2001)

Based on several comparisons of LE vs regular ArcAAA in my findings, the LE light output is consistant from unit to unit while the output of the regular varies somewhat. The LE is noticeably brighter but not be a huge margin (from the naked eye, maybe 20 percent?) then a dimmer regular but very marginal compared to a brighter regular AAA. I love my LE's much better and they are worth the extra money to me.


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## Gransee (Nov 21, 2001)

Yes, the difference in brightness between the LE and the standard is slight and most people will not be able to see the difference. It should be no more than a candela or two. What is noticible between the LEDs is the difference in tint.

Just in case some people think their eyes are going crazy, I should tell you that we ran out of R-rank white LEDs at one point and put about 80 SB1s into the standard housing. We had many back orders and had to do something! They are sold now but there is a possibility that some people might have one of these and an LE. In that case, the LED will look the same because it is. We don't do that anymore no matter how deseperate since the stock on those LEDs has dried up (Nichia confirmed today they are out). Remember we still have our cache which should last us about 2 months.

Btw, a customer did some tests on the LE recently and found at 40% remaining battery capacity, the light output was still 85% of maximum. That shows the regulating effect of the flashlight. They also found that the IR signature was below the threshold of their equipment (good for NVG stealth). I think this is true of all white LEDs though.

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 21, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Just in case some people think their eyes are going crazy, I should tell you that we ran out of R-rank white LEDs at one point and put about 80 SB1s into the standard housing. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now I understand why some of my standard Arc-AAA are as bright (or brighter) and of the same tint color as my 2 Arc-AAA LE. Well folks I'd just like you to know that I got 4 standard Arc-AAA with SB1.

Happy hunting for the other SB1 standard Arc-AAA. 

- verge -


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## vcal (Nov 21, 2001)

A little off topic, but I'm convinced, after comparing 3 of my white Photon IIs, I evidentally got one of _those_ with an "S" rank Nichia in it. The LED is a little smaller, considerably whiter, and about 20% brighter than the other two.....


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 21, 2001)

Peter,

I found a synthetic sapphire "window" .690 x .080 for just $24 over at Edmund Scientific ... now all I need is the ARC-LS ;-)

I've read all the thread and other posts around the internet. You and your company are to be congratulated for your great product line and customer suppport. I look forward to using your fine products.

W.R.Sterling aka Rickster


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## yclo (Nov 21, 2001)

Now all you need to do is go somewhere (probably some optometrist shop) and see if you can add an anti reflective coating on it.

YC


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## Gransee (Nov 21, 2001)

*Update*

The update this week is earlier and shorter than usual because of the holiday. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

The first batch of power packs to be completed where the 123 packs. They were done last Friday by one of the auxilliary shops. I took one look at them and rejected them because they had awfull tooling marks and scuffs on them. The primary shop is now trying to polish them up. Once they are done, then we will be able to send the first batch of packs and illuminator assemblies to be anodized. After that, we will probally be less than 2 weeks from shipping the first batch of the first run.

I have the electronics contractor doing a zillion things. Their number one task is to improve the centering of the LS LED. Turns out that from the factory, the dice are not always centered inside the LED housing. This will require each illuminator to be centered by hand before it is sealed. This is especially critical with the color chips. I noticed that even the version with the factory optics installed are not always centered. Not sure how we are going to do it yet, but the guy who solves it gets lunch on me. I am pretty confident in their abilities, they have already solved a number of tough problems.

We finally got more LS white LEDs in today and shipped all the backorders for them. This is just the bare LS W/optics for experimenters and CPF'ers who like to build mods, etc.

I took a blue LS-123 and a white LS-2AA camping last weekend. We watched the Leonid meteor shower and played with the flashlights. Earlier I had compared the blue with the cyan. The cyan is slightly brighter and much easier to read signs with. This is probally because blue messes with the eyes more than cyan. Blue seems to blur some things (maybe it is my eyes). Both are several times brighter than the white.

While watching the shower, we turned out the lights to see the stars. We then heard the sounds of an animal loudly foraging in a rivine about 30 feet away. I figured it was a warthog. It never showed but if it did, I was going to hit it with the blue LS. It might of slowed it down or made it think twice about charging.

I notice my friend's dog turns her head and squints when ever I shine the LS at her. It spooked the horse, so I don't do that anymore. The goats just continue to look dumb. The cyan produces more lumens than a E1 for example, so it tends to leave some halos if you look into the beam.

One of things I have the electronics shop working on if they get a spare moment is to build some "extended run time" white Arc-AAAs. This is for a customer who might purchase a large number. I will post some numbers after we test it (2 weeks out?). It will probally be dimmer than an Infinity and run for awhile longer than the standard AAA.

Useless Trivia: Back when we where trying to come up with a company name, one of the canidates was the, "meteorlight".

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 22, 2001)

Peter,
Thank you so very much for your totally irrelevent yet poetically supurb spiel about animals and the power of the Arc LS.

It is a pleasure to have such a wise and true leader who is also a magnificant wordsmith!

If I may, in your honour I would like to ask permission to use your words...(the most poignant ones I might add, which may even be the answer to the greatest mystery of all)...to sign off.

The goats just continue to look dumb.
mike (aka. melmso)


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 22, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yclo:
*Now all you need to do is go somewhere (probably some optometrist shop) and see if you can add an anti reflective coating on it.

YC*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the good folks over at Sirius Optics will do it for $30 - Magnesium Flouride MgF2 - both sides too. ;-)

Rickster


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## yclo (Nov 22, 2001)

Actually I've been wondering, you choose synthetic sapphire because it is pretty hard, nearly comparable to diamond.
What about pyrex? Surefire uses that, is that better or worst than sapphire?
Anyone else know?

YC


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 22, 2001)

How's this: Noah survived with an Arc. (Picture of Noah holding a Arc-LS standing beside a goat in the arc.)









- verge -


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## WaltH (Nov 22, 2001)

"Sheep go to heaven, Goats...go to he**"

Anyone know this song?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 22, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yclo:
*Actually I've been wondering, you choose synthetic sapphire because it is pretty hard, nearly comparable to diamond.
What about pyrex? Surefire uses that, is that better or worst than sapphire?
Anyone else know?

YC*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PYREX is a borosilicate glass with a hardness of 5.5 to 7 on the Mohs scale depending on formulation. It has a low thermal coefficient of expansion making it a very good material for things that should not change shape or break when heated or cooled. Telescope mirrors come to mind as well as glass cooking ware.

Synthetic sapphire with a hardness of 9 is popular in high end watches like Rolex where it can protect the watch from the daily 'grind'. ;-)

Rickster


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 22, 2001)

Hello, everyone! New poster boy here. I have been keeping up with all Arc and LED related topics for a while now. It started a few months ago after I called up Arc flashlight Inc. and spoke with a Mr. Gransee about the Luxeon Star LED. The next thing you know, I'm hooked on the concept of illumination efficiency!

Just bought a slew of AAA's from Texas Tactical for Christmas stocking stuffers, but I'm eagerly awaiting the ship date of my Arc LS Cyan!!! Looking forward to seeing this embodiment of Mr. Gransee's creativity.

Peter! I have been reading some of the posts on lenses, and some of the guys are talking about Pyrex® and sapphire. I checked the CTE's of aluminum vs. the glass-type materials, and aluminum is 5X greater thermal expansion than something like sapphire.

Heck, if one were to (even expertly) epoxy such lens material on the end of an LS there could be disbond, subsequent moisture intrusion, and general displeasure. Don't ya think? Howabout a hard plastic lens material (durable and, if given the proper coatings, scratch resistant) with a CTE closer to aluminum. 

There is a plastic lens material called Zeonex® 480 Cyclo Olefin Optical Grade Polymer. It's also VERY transmissive in the UV, which would also be good for the a nice UV Luxeon Star sometime down the line.....

Check out http://www.matweb.com/ for a great guide to material properties.

Happy Thanksgiving, all!


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## Gransee (Nov 22, 2001)

Thanks for the 411 HardChemist!

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 23, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hardchemist:
*Peter! I have been reading some of the posts on lenses, and some of the guys are talking about Pyrex® and sapphire. I checked the CTE's of aluminum vs. the glass-type materials, and aluminum is 5X greater thermal expansion than something like sapphire.

Heck, if one were to (even expertly) epoxy such lens material on the end of an LS there could be disbond, subsequent moisture intrusion, and general displeasure. Don't ya think? Howabout a hard plastic lens material (durable and, if given the proper coatings, scratch resistant) with a CTE closer to aluminum. 

There is a plastic lens material called Zeonex® 480 Cyclo Olefin Optical Grade Polymer. It's also VERY transmissive in the UV, which would also be good for the a nice UV Luxeon Star sometime down the line.....

Check out http://www.matweb.com/ for a great guide to material properties.

Happy Thanksgiving, all!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hardchemist,

Thanks for the info on CTE of aluminum. The synthetic sapphire I was proposing for my personal use ( I am not suggesting at all that this be a change in the design ) has an extremely low CTE and what little it has is perpendicular to the lens. The synthetic sapphire ( Al2O3 single crystal ) window I found is .010 smaller in diameter than the I.D. of the flange - this should provide more than enough accomodation for the contraction/expansion of the aluminum head. I had planned to use a high temp clear silicone on the circumference of the added lens only. This should allow differential expansion of the materials while keeping the added lens mechanically in place. The use of the silicone would facilitate removal and replacement also. Here's a schematic of the plan.






If it can protect the original lens from getting scratched up I will be happy. You should see the LCD window on my Nikon Coolpix 990 - someday soon I need to send it back to Nikon for a replacement. 

Rickster


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## yclo (Nov 23, 2001)

As for the LCD windows on digital cameras, I did a little something on my Canon Digital Ixus.

Obviously I can't take a photo of the camera, but I used a plastic sticker sheet thing that can be purchased for the purpose of protecting palm screens. Just cut to fit!

YC


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## arab (Nov 23, 2001)

Gransee said
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> One of things I have the electronics shop working on if they get a spare moment is to build some "extended run time" white Arc-AAAs. This is for a customer who might purchase a large number. I will post some numbers after we test it (2 weeks out?). It will probally be dimmer than an Infinity and run for awhile longer than the standard AAA.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Any chance this could be (reliably) implemented as an _additional _ power level to the existing super-bright standard mode on the AAA?? I know I'm begining to sound like a broken record here, but, hey, you can't blame me for trying!


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## Gransee (Nov 23, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arab:
*Gransee said



One of things I have the electronics shop working on if they get a spare moment is to build some "extended run time" white Arc-AAAs. This is for a customer who might purchase a large number. I will post some numbers after we test it (2 weeks out?). It will probally be dimmer than an Infinity and run for awhile longer than the standard AAA.

Click to expand...

*


> Any chance this could be (reliably) implemented as an _additional _ power level to the existing super-bright standard mode on the AAA?? I know I'm begining to sound like a broken record here, but, hey, you can't blame me for trying!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## John N (Nov 23, 2001)

Gransee said:
"One of things I have the electronics shop working on if they get a spare moment is to build some "extended run time" white Arc-AAAs. This is for a customer who might purchase a large number. I will post some numbers after we test it (2 weeks out?). It will probally be dimmer than an Infinity and run for awhile longer than the standard AAA."

If you do this it would be nice if they were not the same color as the normal, bright Arc AAAs.

Also, I'm supprised you said *dimmer* than the Infinity, rather than "as dim as". 

I'm curious how much longer than the AAA we are talking about.

Hmm.

-john

[ edited for formatting ]


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## Gransee (Nov 23, 2001)

Well it would be mostly speculation at this point since they haven't been finished yet. It will be dimmer than the Infinity, but not by much. The run time will also be less than the Infinity in my opinion because, a) the AAA cell has less than half the energy and b) the Infinity is not regulated whereas the extended run time version is. If I where to guess, I would estimate the run time to be in the neighborhood of 15 hours.

Understand that if we do make this model available to the public that it more of a purpose-driven design than one intended for broad use. Most people prefer the maximum brightness/minimum package equation.

Peter Gransee


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## John N (Nov 23, 2001)

Well, I'd probably be interested in one if you do make them. However, it would be nice if they were a different color to help avoid confusion. 

-john


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## Gransee (Nov 23, 2001)

The customer will probally request them in black but we might add "extended run time", etc to the case.

Peter


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## JonSidneyB (Nov 25, 2001)

I like I am sure all others are anxiously waiting the availabiliy of the Arc-LS. Even though I do not have one yet, I am chomping at the bit for one. In spite of this, I still have Ideas. I love the powerpack options that are going to be comming with the light. 

Here is what I would like to see in the future.

1. It appears the the 123 powerpack as well as single AA could be made a little more keychain frienly with a more rouned profile as a centered foldaway swivil D-ring. This could be a future option but keep the existing ones for those who desire stand up capability. 

2. Power Packs for C and D cell in both single cell and twin cell arangements.

This would make for a sooooo very flexible lighting system. The light on your key chain could be 123 or single AA. On you belt, a twin AA would be fine. In you car, a kit could be made up with all powerpacks. if you need batteries, you can use what you can find, all stores do not carry 123's.

At home, you do not have to be so conserned with compact size but economy can come into play. Do you ever have any lose AA, C, or D batteries lying around and you do not need maximum light, well use em up in your Arc-LS with the appropriate power pack, an added bonus is that you get to clean up all those loose batteries junking up your drawers. Need more light, install a two cell power pack. When seeking economy for household use, buy D-cells and get longer runtime.

My idea of the perfect portable lighting system. 

On person...Arc-LS on the keychain and a Surefire on the Belt. Use the Arc-LS for most duties keeping your hands off of the expensive to use Surefire until needed.

In the car, keep a kit with all powerpack options. Use the powerpack that makes most sence but you have almost unlimited resupply possibilities when on the road. Also good to have mulitple powerpacks when scavanging battereies from other items.

In the house, rely mainly on larger batteries but have the ability to use whatever batteries might be found around the house. If a power failure occurs, it might be nice to be able to pull batteries from whatever battery powered items lying around that are not needed at the time.

The way I see it, if you have lights that can use AAA,AAA,C,D and 123's in single and dual cell arrangements and some Surefires for when bright is needed. You are set up for economy, crisis, emergency, and Utility.

Gransee, I love what you are doing but please give us the C, and D option one day in single and dual cell arangements. I got car kits and a house kit to build.


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## Brock (Nov 25, 2001)

Happily dreaming about an Arc AAA head on a D cell body


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## Spork (Nov 25, 2001)

hello Gransee,

I had a question about my arc aaa. Every once in a while my light won't turn on. I thought it might be the contacts but when i tried tightening it down more it wouldnt turn on. i had to back it off and wait for several seconds before my light would turn on again. this only happens once and a while. is there something wrong with my arc or could it be something simple like my battery wasnt making contact? 

thanks


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## Gransee (Nov 25, 2001)

It is hard to say without actually seeing it. The usual culprit is some sort of problem making contact with the battery. The contacts may be corroded or the battery may be indented/crushed. Try a different battery and cleaning the contacts. Beyond that, let us take a look at it by sending it back. 

Thanks!

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 25, 2001)

about longer run time without changing the Arc at all; way back long and far ago there were these little quarter-sized buttons or discs that one dropped into the bulb socket before screwng in the bulb, I didn't understand it then and I don't now either, but it was supposed to be some sort of diode that would dim the bulb a bit and therefor make the bulb last longer -- could the same be done for the Arc? a little drop-in button, there might be enough space if you don't screw the head too far down...? (edit) ..oh, and also remove that frikin' foam washer:>)


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## Gransee (Nov 25, 2001)

Ted, that was suggested earlier but using a resistor instead of a diode. The diode would have a similiar effect with it's voltage drop.

It would work, just not the most efficient design electrically since you would have heating losses across the resistor/diode. 

I also looked into the idea of having the disk make an alternate connection to the back of the PCB. The problem there is the retainer is in the way and the Arc-AAA pcb does not have any room to spare. Another issue is the disk would interefere with the carefull vertical alignment of the o-ring. The flashlight would not be waterproof with the disk installed.

I do understand that making the light dimmable would be higly desired and I am sure there is a way to do it.

About using larger cells on the Arc-LS: It would require an adapter or an extended pack. Some means must be provided at one end or the other to load/unload the cell. Once accomplished, the circuit would work quite happly with the single/dual cell.

Check out this article on regulators (he calls them "levelers"). Thanks to John N for the link. Mr. Hunt makes the point that using a regulator is especially important as the cell size increases since so much of a C or D cell's capacity is at such a low voltage. This voltage is well within the range of the LS circuit.

Peter Gransee


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## vcal (Nov 25, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted the Led:
*about longer run time without changing the Arc at all; way back long and far ago there were these little quarter-sized buttons or discs that one dropped into the bulb socket before screwng in the bulb, I didn't understand it then and I don't now either, but it was supposed to be some sort of diode that would dim the bulb a bit and therefor make the bulb last longer -- could the same be done for the Arc? a little drop-in button, there might be enough space if you don't screw the head too far down...? (edit) ..oh, and also remove that frikin' foam washer:>)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fwiw-
Not for d.c.-d.c. use, but I use several similar "buttons" to convert a.c. to d.c. (rectifiers) _to greatly_ extend household bulb life while slightly dimming the output.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 25, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Ted, that was suggested earlier but using a resistor instead of a diode. The diode would have similiar effect with it's voltage drop.
Check out this article on regulators (he calls them "levelers"). 
Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
oh, maybe it was I who suggested it earlier?;>) I guess what I had in mind was something on a chip that would solve the problem, like it does in so many other places..but if it doesn't fit then it can't be lit, so to speak. 
I saw that Willie Hunt regulator site, and bought an Easter Seal Headlite III, which contains the circuit, and 4 brightness levels, runs a five-pack of AA's, can be hooked up to anything up to 12 volts(!)..though Brock has informed me how running a xenon or halogen lamp at a dimmed level rapidly destroys the bulb..maybe the bulb in the Headlite III is not a xenon or halogen, I don't know , but if it were not, can I assume it would then be immune to the bad effects of dimming? Anyhow, I put a Xenon Halogen Carley in it and alternately blast and dim away -(very long throw on that thing!) - there's a place to keep the original bulb (now the spare) inside the headlamp, for when the Carley goes...if the reflector don't melt first...
and that flicker mode to warn you of low batteries worked really well with nimh batteries..


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## Spork (Nov 25, 2001)

i will try a new battery tommorow since this one is a little squished. i dont really know how to go about cleaning the contact on the head of the light. would a cuetip with rubbing alchohol do the trick? the contact is dark and looks like its been rubbed away.


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## vcal (Nov 25, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrchri5:
*i will try a new battery tommorow since this one is a little squished. i dont really know how to go about cleaning the contact on the head of the light. would a cuetip with rubbing alchohol do the trick? the contact is dark and looks like its been rubbed away.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have no contact cleaner, using 90% isopropyl (Savon/Osco) and Q-tip seems to work well.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 25, 2001)

the positive contact on the head should be shiny and silvery --it may be stickum with added dirt; (the Adams Family's favorite washday product) Try rubbing lightly with a clean, new, pencil eraser...
I doubt you really mashed the solder right off-- but if you mashed the battery contact, maybe you did? -- if so, I bet Gransee would grant you clemency and replace it, wouldn't He?


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## Spork (Nov 25, 2001)

after looking at it more i think the solder is worn off. I'm still on my first battery with the light so I haven't used it that much. heres a pic http://www.geocities.com/mrchri5/index.htm


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## Gransee (Nov 25, 2001)

mrchris, I looked at the picture. Its hard to tell but it looks like all the solder is there but it is covered with the adhiesive disk left from the foam retainer. You can scrap it off with your finger. For extra credit (and if you have a soldering iron), carefully remelt the solder into a shiny mound. Do not add any solder to the mix as mixing different types of solder does not always produce a good result. Take care that the mound is the same size as before and does not touch any of the other metal contacts on the back of the PCB.

With a SASE, we can send you a new retainer and o-ring to refit your unit.

If this still doesn't do the trick, check the negative contact at the bottom of the battery compartment. This is usally the one that gets the brunt of the battery juices. It can be difficult to clean. One method I use is to tear off a square of sand paper, poke it down the tube with a pencil eraser and spin the pencil causing the sandpaper to spin. 

If that still doesn't do it then let us take a crack at it. It may have an internal problem. We are happy to get your light back to 100% for you.

Peter


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## LEDagent (Nov 26, 2001)

The C and D option would make for a nice emergency light as it can easily be put on end and be used as a stable, long run, relatively bright candle.


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## Spork (Nov 26, 2001)

the foam just came off last night when i tried cleaning the contacts but i still have it here. ive scraped off as much as the glue i could with my fingers, what is the little black ring? is that from the retainer? i also looked down inside and it still looks clean. i was messing with it again this morning, i could turn it on and off several times without problems and then it just wont work, i back it off then try turning it on again but no luck, but if i wait a few seconds it will work like normal again. thats why i was wondering if its a problem with the circuit? I think it just has a mind of its own. if something wasnt making contact i dont understand why this only happens rarely. if you play with the light a while you'll see what i mean.i dont remember for sure but i think this same thing happened shortly after i got the light.


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## arab (Nov 26, 2001)

Gransee said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> For those who know their flashlights, you can name at least one key chain size light that has a mode switch that was/is problemic. And it was designed by a large company, which we are not.

Trust me though, I do think about how best to do it when the time does come. And I have had our contractors look at the problem as well. A reliable mode button is something we really would like to offer to our loyal customers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the update Peter. And yes, I do agree that the big word here is *reliable*. 

When you do get the chance to investigate this, you could save some time by looking
at the links below – I have collected all the dimmable LED torches that I am aware
of into one place. All of these have CPU control, with the exception of the Skylight and the CMG Bonfire tent light – I am unsure of these 2. 
Eternalight
PAL
Photon 3
Photon Fusion
Skylight from Rigel Systems
Neon Star - * Very SLOW* site. Looks like an Eternalight clone.
HDS Action Light
CMG Bonfire tent light

Certainly many of the above are problematic in use, e.g:



The P3 we all know about. 



The eternalight suffers from involuntary switch on if left near a mobile phone. 



The Fusion blows up (!)



The PAL can suffer fractures around the circuit board (As reported in these pages, *mine however, is fine*)

It looks to me that, short of spending $Ms on a CPU, the only reliable way to do this is to use a simple mechanical switch – no doubt the type you referred to yourself. In a  previous thread, Coherence made this suggestion:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Here is an idea for a switch on the Arc AAA - 
currently the Arc works by screwing down the head so that a foam washer is compressed somewhat and the battery positive terminal contacts the head. 
Imagine a circle of thin conductor affixed to the foam washer, so it is positioned between the battery and the washer. 
Now when the head is unscrewed, the distance between the new piece and the rear nub battery contact exceeds the length of a AAA cell, so no power flows. 
Tighten the head and the positive terminal is forced to contact the new piece, which feeds the LED in "dim" mode. Tighten the head all the way down and the new piece compresses the washer and contacts the head, "bright" mode. 
Hope that wasn't too hard to picture , it is hard to describe. 
Anyway, it seems there has to be a simple and reliable solution, anyone else with ideas? . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Combined with my idea for reduced torch length by introducing a pull-out half ring in a flat-based AAA to make room for the bigger head, this could result in a torch no longer than the current AAA.

Looks like your customers are waiting - now all you need is *lots* of time


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 26, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrchri5:
* i could turn it on and off several times without problems and then it just wont work, i back it off then try turning it on again but no luck, but if i wait a few seconds it will work like normal again. thats why i was wondering if its a problem with the circuit? I think it just has a mind of its own. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds to me like an thermally induced mechanical intermittant. A wire bond inside an IC may have come loose and is acting like a thermostat. A similar problem got me a free trip to London once. A very large record-mixdown console we sold Advision Studios would fail about the same time every morning and was giving the local techs a lot of grief. When I got there I found out that the AC came on about the same time every morning ... a quick check with a can of freon and a heat gun led me to a little 50 cent logic IC that had the intermittant. An xray showed the wirebond came loose from the chip.

Good Luck.

Rickster


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 26, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrchri5:
*i could turn it on and off several times without problems and then it just wont work, i back it off then try turning it on again but no luck, but if i wait a few seconds it will work like normal again. thats why i was wondering if its a problem with the circuit? *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have the same problem with one of my Arc's. After a number of twisting the head to turn it ON and OFF it won't work, BUT after loosening the head all the way to the point of disengaging it from the body, it will work again, everytime I do that trick.

I also tried the open circuit test with the head and a AAA battery. It works everytime I contact the POSITIVE wire from battery to Arc's positive contact, so it means Arc's internal circuit (IC) is okey.

My suspect is the "Foam Ring" as it drags the battery around the tube, crimping or deforming in such a way to prevent the battery from connecting to the "Positive" contact point of head. The "Foam Ring" shouldn't drag the battery with it but slide on top of the battery to prevent drag and possible deformation.

- verge -


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## vcal (Nov 26, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arab:
*
When you do get the chance to investigate this, you could save some time by looking
at the links below ? I have collected all the dimmable LED torches that I am aware
of into one place. All of these have CPU control, with the exception of the Skylight and the CMG Bonfire tent light ? I am unsure of these 2. 
Eternalight
PAL
Photon 3
Photon Fusion
Skylight from Rigel Systems
Neon Star -  Very SLOW site. Looks like an Eternalight clone.
HDS Action Light
CMG Bonfire tent light
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That little Neon Star is the only light I've _never_ had any trouble with. It was my very first LED flashlight bought back in 1997. Fyi- it does precede the Eternalight by a year or so.
The Eternalight people knew about it when they first started selling their Classic model. -I had called them to complain about the erratic switching action of their new light.

If you ever need a few chuckles, -'ya GOTTA read that Neon Star website copy, their conception of English is hilarious!














p.s.-I'm still very impressed after all this time (4 years) at the intense light that the little "Star" puts out-on AAA batteries that are almost completely shot! I like my Eternalights (3), but the cleverness/utility of the Star's microprocessor just beats 'em all -hands down!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 26, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrchri5:
*after looking at it more i think the solder is worn off. I'm still on my first battery with the light so I haven't used it that much. heres a pic http://www.geocities.com/mrchri5/index.htm*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
--ok just a guess, but the smaller dark inner ring? looks like that could be a round dent made by the rim of the positive battery contact nipple? can you dig the dirt out of that 'trench' with a pin? --if you haven't re-melted it yet...


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## Spork (Nov 26, 2001)

hey i guess that was dirt, i took a small screwdriver and scraped at it a little bit, the light appears to be working fine, but like i said it doesnt happen very often so its hard to tell, the ring i was wondering about is the outermost ring that would be under the foam retainer, its black. is that the adhesive? the glue that i scraped off appeared to be clear. i dont know a whole lot about light so I'm just curious about what does what.


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## Chris M. (Nov 27, 2001)

_I have the same problem with one of my Arc's. After a number of twisting the head to turn it ON and OFF it won't work, BUT after loosening the head all the way to the point of disengaging it from the body, it will work again, everytime I do that trick._


Now this is odd. I had never had any trouble with my later-issue Arcs (the proto flickers like a baddun, but it`s quite scarce so I`m keeping hold of it), until tonight. Walking home from Uni over the hill, I use the A-LE to see my way in the shadows between streetlights and behind trees- you know, to make sure I don`t slip on wet leaves or tread in something a dog left behind. I was turning it on and off when required, but after a few minutes it wouldn`t come back on again, no matter how hard (within reason) I tightnened the head. Huh? I unscrewed the top, shook the battery out to see if it was a dirty contact but looked OK. Back it goes....and it`s fine again. Later the same thing happened, I took the head off and put it back on again...fine. And a third too- it is an extremely cold night tonight, hovering around freezing- I wonder if this might have done anything? Since getting back in I havn`t had any more trouble. 


The top of the AAA cell is a bit mooshed in and the bottom looks a little greasy (probably from the silicone lube) so I`ll try a new cell in it later in the week and see what happens. Probably no big deal, but it was a bit odd. Especially after reading these few similar accounts today.


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## Gransee (Nov 27, 2001)

Sometimes I think our lights are too expensive for the average Joe and then I get an email like this....

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [name omitted] [mailto:
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 2:57 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: brand new flashlights that don't work
> 
> 
> I just purchased 2 infrared flash lights. I put brand new 
> batteries and all 
> I get is a very very dimmed light on both flashlights. What's 
> wrong with 
> these lites?
> 

Hello. How are you observing the light output?

Peter Gransee

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [name omitted] [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:39 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: brand new flashlights that don't work
> 
> 
> I'm standing in the dark and it dosen't illuminate at all. If 
> you look real 
> close you see just a small red dot.
> 

You are using some sort of IR viewer correct? The human eye cannot detect IR wavelengths. The red cherry you are seeing is some of the shorter wavelengths spilling into the visible spectrum. This flashlight is designed for use with Night Vision equipment, IR cameras, IR sensors, etc. If you want a flashlight for direct viewing, I would recommend our visible colors, especially the white LED version.


Peter Gransee


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## DavidW (Nov 27, 2001)




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## Quickbeam (Nov 27, 2001)

...unbelievable...


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## JollyRoger (Nov 27, 2001)

Hehe...funny post, Peter.

OK, now for my contribution to the ARC's on/off problems. It seems that there is some variance between the ARC's in terms of how much power they need (from a nearly dead battery) to power up. I ran a battery down (so much that it's considered dead) in one of my ARC LE's. Then I turned it off (while there's still a considerable light from it's moon phase). After about 10 seconds, I try turning it on...but of course it doesn't b/c I guess there's not enough juice in the batteries. THEN...I take this "dead" battery and try it in another ARC LE...and VOILA! It turns on instantly! I guess some ARC's need less power than others to initally start up? After waiting about a minute, I try the battery in the first ARC...and it works again....

A problem about the foam ring:

Peter, I know the design right now is cheap, simple, effective (for the most part). But what about considering some simple, yet effective modifications? For one, I think the part of the foam ring that contacts the battery should be slippery and hard...like a think layer of teflon or even a thin piece of plastic. This would make the "smooshing" effect less of a problem and would make turning the light on and off easier. I've experimented with this by putting a layer of epoxy on one foam ring (very thin layer and took a long time to do carefully) and putting a thin layer of nail polish hardener on another foam ring. They did the trick. But it didn't seem like they would be as durable as a thin layer of plastic (a hard plastic coat on the surfact of the foam that comes into contact with the battery's + side). In addition, making the hole in the foam ring (for the battery's + terminal) bigger would also help...as well as maybe making the outer diameter of the foam ring less...but not by much.

What do you think?

Another note: in order to prevent the battery crushing syndrome....and excessive wear on the solder on the bottom side of the ARC's head (the part that comes into direct contact with the battery's + side), how about adding a small spring on the bottom of the ARC so that the battery's - side sits on this? I know, the foam ring's height might have to be reduced a bit...I'm talking about using the shortest (height-wise) spring to prevent having to lengthen the ARC overall.
A spring, as described above, could do the trick (to lessen the "crushing" on the ARC's head) or even maybe a conductive foam mesh on the bottom of the ARC?

(Of course, adding a switch would prevent all this and reduce the wear on the threads from turning on/off...but then you'd have to consider the wear on the switch, which I'm sure you have...)


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 27, 2001)

again, I'd vote for a plastic spring , at the positive end of course...must be a ready-made out there in some form? I know I can buy a little 'make your own springs' kit, but how about non-conductive ones?


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## cave dave (Nov 28, 2001)

I've also noticed that sometimes my arcs don't always come on when I turn the head down. I think this is battery contact problem. If I take the battery out and twist it 90 degrees. Then put it back in, this almost always corrects the problem. Some times just loosening the head till the O-rings exposed and giving it a shake works too. 

Don't use rubbing alcohol to clean the + contact, it casues the foam thingy to become unglued. A clean pencil eraser works well though

My 2 cents:
I just don't see the need for a dim mode on the arc AAA, it’s really not all that bright to begin with (CPF heresy



). If you just have to have a dim mode just carry a mostly dead



battery along with you and use that.

A dim mode on the LS would be nice though, but I would make this a logic in the circuit, as opposed to a switch. Just turn the light off and on quick to send it into the dim mode. I know of at least two other lights that work this way. Here is one: LM 700


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 28, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cave dave:
* Just turn the light off and on quick to send it into the dim mode. I know of at least two other lights that work this way. Here is one: LM 700*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
..got it.


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## Gransee (Nov 28, 2001)

Hmmm... That might not be such a bad idea Cave Dave.

I like it. It doesn't add any other mechanical parts and is easy on the circuit.

We will take a look at it.

Peter


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## Spork (Nov 28, 2001)

I have a question for Gransee. which color arc aaa is your favorite? I am thinking of getting a turqoise also since they are suspose to be brighter.


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## geepondy (Nov 28, 2001)

I think it was a joke on the emailer trying to pull Peter's leg.


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## geepondy (Nov 28, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
[QB
Hello. How are you observing the light output?

Peter Gransee

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [name omitted] [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:39 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: brand new flashlights that don't work
> 
> 
> I'm standing in the dark and it dosen't illuminate at all. If 
> you look real 
> close you see just a small red dot.
> 

You are using some sort of IR viewer correct? The human eye cannot detect IR wavelengths. The red cherry you are seeing is some of the shorter wavelengths spilling into the visible spectrum. This flashlight is designed for use with Night Vision equipment, IR cameras, IR sensors, etc. If you want a flashlight for direct viewing, I would recommend our visible colors, especially the white LED version.


Peter Gransee




[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I forgot to quote on my last post. I think this emailer is trying to pull Peter's leg. He can't be legit.


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## Darell (Nov 28, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
* He can't be legit.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, he'd better not be a CPF member! Yikes. I know several people who swear they can see "infrared." Of course, by definition, they cannot. But they have little heaters at home that turn red when you turn them on - and it says right on the box that they heat with "infrared radiation."


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## Gransee (Nov 28, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrchri5:
*I have a question for Gransee. which color arc aaa is your favorite? I am thinking of getting a turqoise also since they are suspose to be brighter.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi mrchri5. I carry a 2nd run white LE on my keychain and either a white or cyan LS loose in the pocket with a 123 pack. I also keep a white LS with a 2AA pack next to my bed and it gets used around the car as well.

Lighting could be split into three ranges: Near field, medium field and far field. I see the Arc-AAA as a near field and the Arc-LS as a medium field.

White makes a good color for a key chain light in my opinion because a lot of my near field tasks require full color vision.

Medium and far field tasks however are less likely to be color critical for me so using a bright, single color can be a plus. 

Consider your tasks though. If your work requires you to see a wide area with full color information, go with white. Some examples of tasks that require full spectrum (white) are: looking for evidence at a crime scene, color codes on wires, identifying plants, reading maps, colored labels, etc.

If you want maximum reach and brightness, go with a color like cyan, blue or amber.

Some specialty tasks require certain colors. Like red for signaling or preserving night vision, blue or green for military ops, blue for special flourescent materials and medical applications, blue is also used for examing machine bores, etc.

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Nov 29, 2001)

Just a quick note to introduce myself and thank Mr. Gransee for such an awesome product. I never had much except a cheap plastic dime store flashlight and a maglite solitare until my girlfriend recently asked for a flashlight for her birthday. I didnt even know that LED flashlights existed. I decided to research it and now Im pretty much obsessed. In the LED flashlight category Ive got a Streamlight stylus, a couple of Photons and an ARC LE. Of all these flashlights I find myself using the ARC LE the most. I find myself using it all the time because I know it will stay bright the longest and if I need a new battery it is O so easy to pop in another AAA. Also Also I love it when I get to tell my friends "No its not a maglite". Very cool flachlight Thanks Gransee.

P.S. She wanted a flashlight for walking dogs at the local shelter at night. Something nice and bright and easy to carry. I got her a Streamlight Stinger...


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## Gransee (Nov 29, 2001)

Thank You Emmet!

Btw, we will be turing off the Arc-LS reservation system this weekend.

This Saturday morning, we will no longer be taking new reservations. This is to prepare the system for taking orders. We have not announced when orders will be accepted yet but will give one week advance notice before we do. This is so most everyone will have a chance to get one of the first batches.

The first run will be serialized and split into about 4 batches. Each batch will be assembled and shipped sequentially. We have done this for several reasons: We orginally though that the amount of orders would be small and it would be no trouble to ship all of the first run at once. We have had to multiple our production quantities. We still want to give all of the people who have reserved a unit a chance to get a serialized version. 

Obviously we are changing the website to stop taking reservations, etc because we think the units will be ready soon.

I will post an update on the manufacturing this weekend.

Peter Gransee


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## Cyclops942 (Nov 29, 2001)

I hate to sound like such a newbie, but how will this work with respect to those of us who have ordered through distributors?

I know this has been addressed in the past, but, to be honest, I never really got it.



I don't need a detailed layout of the process here, just an assurance that, when you notify me that my reservation #590 is ready to order, I'm supposed to sit tight and do nothing because I've since placed that same order through TTS, and I'll still get serialized editions.


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## Gransee (Nov 29, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyclops942:
*I hate to sound like such a newbie, but how will this work with respect to those of us who have ordered through distributors?

I know this has been addressed in the past, but, to be honest, I never really got it.



I don't need a detailed layout of the process here, just an assurance that, when you notify me that my reservation #590 is ready to order, I'm supposed to sit tight and do nothing because I've since placed that same order through TTS, and I'll still get serialized editions.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am glad you asked that question Kris. I am sure other people are wondering the same thing. 

If you have placed a pre-order with one of the resellers, you do not need a reservation number. They will notify you when their stock comes in. If you placed your order early enough with them, you should get a serialized version.

If you have not placed a pre-order with one of the resellers and want to still get a serialized first run unit, you will need a reservation with us so you may order from us directly.

Reservations are only for those people who plan on ordering a first run unit from us directly.

Peter Gransee


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## Spork (Nov 30, 2001)

I really want a arc-ls but im hesitant to order one in case there are improvements to it. I also have another question, which glue would be the best for re-attaching the retainer on my arc-aaa? is the black ring thats under the foam retainer glue or part of the circuit board?


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## Gransee (Nov 30, 2001)

Well, there will be improvements, there alway are. However, the main reason the light is delayed now is to add as many improvements now.

The dark ring is the black epoxy used to seal the electronics inside. The best thing for a loose 'foam' retainer is to have us send you a new one. The new ones are much stickier. I think superglue or similiar would work in a pinch though.

To get the free replacements on the o-rings and retainers, send us a SASE. The address is on our website in the FAQ.

Peter


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## Gransee (Nov 30, 2001)

*Update on Arc-LS and Arc-AAA Manufacturing:*

I called the primary at 4:45pm today hoping for some good news. Like that they had sent the first batch of LSs to the anodizer and a bunch of AAA's as well (like they said they would). No such luck on either count. They spent all day trying to finish polishing those 123 packs but didn't get done in time. If you remember, we sent the packs out to a secondary shop to try to get them done sooner but instead they scuffed them up. The primary shop is trying to polish them up so they will be flawless. Now they say they will be ready Tuesday (actually he said Monday, but I heard Tuesday). The AAA's had a similiar problem with the spindle leaving a mark on the battery compartments. They think they will get those fixed the same time.

So two flashlights, both have marred battery compartments, both delayed way too long.

Everyone have a great weekend.

Remember tomorrow morning we will shut down the reservation system to make way for the LS order system.

Some good news. The retail blister packs are coming in next week and the artwork actually looks pretty good.






Peter Gransee


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## jerry1 (Nov 30, 2001)

Just a quick question. Are we locked in to the quantities that were originally reserved or can this be changed when actually ordering?


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## Gransee (Nov 30, 2001)

Hmmm. Rather than make this complicated, lets just say you can order more than you reserved. We will limit it to a reasonable number though (10 for example). Not everyone will purchase what they reserved, I think some people may have reserved more than enough just to be safe. Of course, you can always order _less_ than what you reserved as well.

Peter Gransee


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## Carpe Diem (Nov 30, 2001)

Peter... thank you for the update on the Arc-LS. Everyone is extremely anxious to get them, and that`s a tribute to the high quality of your products and your strong customer support. Like your other fans,though, I will wait as long as necessary, so just keep up the good fight in working out the bumps in your production schedule. As they say, your new production effort is supposed to be hard... if it was easy, everyone would be doing it!


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## Carpe Diem (Nov 30, 2001)

And by the way... without meaning to pester you to death with questions at this stage of your busy life: When we place our order with you for one or more of the units we reserved, can we change the color? Despite reading all of the excellent comments and advice found on CPF, I`m still struggling with what colors I should get.


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## Darell (Nov 30, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
*I`m still struggling with what colors I should get.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it's time for you to just seize the damn carp.


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## Carpe Diem (Nov 30, 2001)

Well... at least most of the comments on CPF are excellent. (Darell... you`re probably right, though!)


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## Gransee (Nov 30, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
*And by the way... without meaning to pester you to death with questions at this stage of your busy life: When we place our order with you for one or more of the units we reserved, can we change the color? Despite reading all of the excellent comments and advice found on CPF, I`m still struggling with what colors I should get.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you may change your colors but just know that some are in short supply and we are going to be slapping orders into "back order" status with a vengence. If it comes down to two reservation holders and their is only one cyan, the person with the cyan on their reservation will get the cyan first versus the person who doesn't. Same is true for people who changed their reservations later on versus people who had them set earlier. 

White is the most plentiful and the most popular. Cyan is second and we have made a zillion of them, but I know we still don't have enough.

Btw, some people say that having a strong demand for your product is a good thing. Yes, certainly, but it pains me to see people have to wait so long. I apologize for the delays and the shortages.

Peter Gransee


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## Carpe Diem (Dec 1, 2001)

Thanks for the info... and it sounds like a fair arrangement.


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## Spidey82 (Dec 1, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cave dave:
* Just turn the light off and on quick to send it into the dim mode. I know of at least two other lights that work this way. Here is one: LM 700*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Great thinking.......................


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## Darell (Dec 1, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
*Well... at least most of the comments on CPF are excellent. (Darell... you`re probably right, though!)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry. I see your username, and I just lose all self control (not like I _ever_ have an excess). I feel bad about cluttering up Peter's thread (though you see I'm doing it again!). So I'll stop. 

Thanks for having humor!


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## Darell (Dec 1, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cave dave:
* Just turn the light off and on quick to send it into the dim mode. I know of at least two other lights that work this way. Here is one: LM 700*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This IS great! "super dim" is another favorite feature of mine. Being able to find the thing in your dark tent is a big benefit. No comments from the peanut gallery on "super dim" please.

I think we can skip the disco strobe though


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## Spork (Dec 1, 2001)

So how do I contact tts for a LE ARC? is he doing another group buy and how much does he charge?

Gransee, I will send you a sase. would just a normal sized envelope be ok?

thanks again


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## WillnTex (Dec 1, 2001)

mrchri5

Just call 1-877-4POLICE or send me an email. $25.99 and $4.40 shipping as long as the lights are available. [email protected]


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## papasan (Dec 2, 2001)

gransee, do plan on 'upgrading' to the high-dome LSes when they all become available?...i'm thinking of the white in particular, but the other colors as well...are the amber and the red ones high-dome already?...


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## Gransee (Dec 2, 2001)

Absolutely. We have had open orders with Future for the highdome (lambertian) amber, red and oranges for over a month now. As soon as a part number is made up for the white and other colors, we will open an order for them too. 

So far they orginally estimated that they would ship the red/orange/amber in November, but that didn't happen. Maybe in December?

The highdome whites, etc are estimated to ship probally around june/july/august.

Of course, I will let you know when we get them.

Peter


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## sylvestor (Dec 3, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sylvestor:
*
Hi Peter,

I clicked on Arc Flashlight LS-LED order page. Then when I click on Specs, I get an adobe file. In the file, Cyan is listed at 17 Lumens, where as the Luxeon Star (LS) data file indicates that the Cyan's typical luminous flux is 30 lumens. Any reason why these are different specs ? Will the new Arc-LS cyan be 17 or 30 lumens ?

thanks,

sylvestor. 



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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## Gransee (Dec 3, 2001)

Lumileds has updated the specs several times. Our local copy of the PDF is an older version. I will update the site with the latest version.

As far as which parts we actually have, I assume they are the latest since they seem to always be on backorder from the factory.

Peter


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## Harrkev (Dec 3, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Sometimes I think our lights are too expensive for the average Joe and then I get an email like this....

> -----Original Message-----
> I just purchased 2 infrared flash lights. 
> I'm standing in the dark and it dosen't illuminate at all. If 
> you look real 
> close you see just a small red dot.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why am I not surprised. Is this the same guy that broke the cup-holder on his computer???

Perhaps you should put an extra piece of paper on the IR and UV models stating that they are not visible by the naked eye.

You can try to make things fool-proof, but never underestimate fools.


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## geepondy (Dec 3, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Update on Arc-LS and Arc-AAA Manufacturing:

I called the primary at 4:45pm today hoping for some good news. Like that they had sent the first batch of LSs to the anodizer and a bunch of AAA's as well (like they said they would). No such luck on either count. They spent all day trying to finish polishing those 123 packs but didn't get done in time. If you remember, we sent the packs out to a secondary shop to try to get them done sooner but instead they scuffed them up. The primary shop is trying to polish them up so they will be flawless. Now they say they will be ready Tuesday (actually he said Monday, but I heard Tuesday). The AAA's had a similiar problem with the spindle leaving a mark on the battery compartments. They think they will get those fixed the same time.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter, I would like to know what your confidence level is that the Arc LS's will ship in time to arrive by Christmas. I need to make decisions on gift considerations which is why I ask.


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## Gransee (Dec 3, 2001)

I am getting this question a lot today. I would like to respond to that with some definitive information tomorrow (Tuesday). 

Peter


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## Gransee (Dec 4, 2001)

*Update*

OK, good news. The Arc-LS head, 123 pack and 1AA pack are at the anodizer right now. This means that the delays in machining are finally over and the manufacturing process is moving forward (yeah!). Our largest run ever of Arc-AAA are also at the anodizer right now. This is a big milestone for us.

The quantities are quite a few. For the Arc-LS this batch is 3 times our orginal planned size. For the Arc-AAA, the batch is twice our largest run to date.

The 2AA packs should go to the anodizer next week and finish the same week. After that, all the parts will be completed for the Arc-LS.

We will begin assembly before that though. Once the heads are finished in anodizing (later this week?) there is a lot of work to be done installing the PCB's, lenses, engraving, etc. We will still be working on the illuminator heads by the time the 2AA packs are completed.

If everything works the way it should, we are about 2-3 weeks out from shipping the Arc-LS.

We promised that once we had an idea of when we were going to ship, we would announce the taking of orders a week in advance so that everyone had a fair chance of getting their order in.

*We will be opening the order system on our website on Saturday morning, the 15 of December at 9am MST.* Note: This is only for orders placed directly on our website. If ordering from one of our distributors, please contact them for shipping information.

Once recieved, all orders will be put on hold until manufacturing is finished up. We won't know what serial number you are getting until we ship your order. Orders recieved first will ship first and get the first serial numbers.

Please mention your reservation number (if you have one) on your order as this will give your order preference.

We are sensitive to the many requests that we ship in time for Christmas. We will be offering a 3-day UPS option ($12.50, USA only) on our website for those who would like to minimize transit time. We would prefer to keep shipping error free as possible so other than the 3-day domestic option, we will not change our standard shipping arrangment.

I will post another update this weekend on the progress of the anodizing process.

Peter Gransee


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## JollyRoger (Dec 4, 2001)

Thanks for the update, Peter. Sounds like Christmas delivery will be tight...but possible.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 4, 2001)

According to http://www.worldtimeserver.com/;

09:00 MST = 11:00 EST 
09:00 MST = 16:00 GMT 

- verge -


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## geepondy (Dec 4, 2001)

It doesn't sound high confidence to ship before Christmas then. Two weeks from Peter's update post would be the 18th. Three weeks would be Christmas day. Or looking at it by opening the order line at least one week before ship date, with the order line opening on the 15th, that would put the earliest ship day at the 22nd. Hopefully a much clearer picture will evolve by the opening of the order line.


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## bluegreen (Dec 5, 2001)

Daft question I know, but what is 09:00 MST in GMT? 16:00?

As the LE took six weeks to get here before it will be likely that the LS will be the first toy of the new year. Woo hoo...


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## remuen (Dec 5, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrchri5:
*hello Gransee,

I had a question about my arc aaa. Every once in a while my light won't turn on. I thought it might be the contacts but when i tried tightening it down more it wouldnt turn on. i had to back it off and wait for several seconds before my light would turn on again. this only happens once and a while. is there something wrong with my arc or could it be something simple like my battery wasnt making contact? 

thanks*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Peter

With one of my four ARC's I do have the same problem. 

I cannot tell you when it will happen. Sometimes it fails 2 - 3 times in series and the other time I can try it 10, 20, 50 or 100 times and it turns on. 

If the failure happens I have first to remove the head completly and then it will (in most cases) work again. I cleaned everything (the positive contact is silvery), changed the battery and the battery housing but that didn't change anything. Did you already find the reason for this behavior? Could it be the foam ring?

In case I should send it back I do have a problem: This ARC seems to have a S rank LED for it is as bright as my 2 LE's. If you should replace it can you send me another ARC with a S rank LED in it?


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## Gransee (Dec 5, 2001)

I think we had a bad streak in a batch two runs back. At first I thought it was normal but now we are seeing a dramatic increase in failures from that run and they all are the same in symptoms: flickering or reduced output. We researched this and think that some of the heads where contaminated with coolant while at the machine shop. Normally this is cleaned off fairly quickly but these where let to sit for a while and corrosion may have resulted. If this is the case, it will reduce the ability of the PCB to make a proper ground to the case.

We have already fixed this with the last two most recent Arc-AAA runs. We are also incorporating the new procedures into the LS line.

Our normal warranty procedure applies: We are happy to replace them. Please send the defect units back for free replacement. We apologize for the waste of time this has caused you and thank you for the opportunity to resolve this.

12/7/01 Update on this issue:
I went down to the warehouse today and worked with the foreman on several extra QC tests. We applied these new tests to the current inventory and found about a half dozen that didn't measure up- which where promptly rejected. These new procedures further increase the testing that each Arc flashlight endures before it is shipped to you. I certainly hope we have reduced defects to as close to zero as possible. Warranty returns are real inconvenient!

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Dec 8, 2001)

This is mostly to the CPF owner(s). We would like to list the CPF as a good place to visit on our retail packaging. There would be a blurb on the back of the package that says, "Meet other flashlight fans at the independent user group Candle Power Forums (www.candlepowerforums.com)."

We will not charge for the free advertising. We think all flashlight fans should know about this BBS. It also helps our pre/post sales support by improving the communications between us and flashlight fans in general.

This blurb will go out to thousands of Arc Flashlight customers.

What do you think?

Peter Gransee


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## Chas (Dec 8, 2001)

Peter,

Go for it an excellent idea!!

Best Regards,


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## geepondy (Dec 8, 2001)

Yes Peter, that's a fine idea. Concerning your packaging, I assume it's going to be some kind of a blister pack. Could you make it so that I don't need a pair of wire cutters to open the packaging as I have to do with so many devices these days. I've seen some blister packs that were basically sealed with four corner "buttons" that you could pop out with relative ease.


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## Gransee (Dec 8, 2001)

Ok, cool. I will wait until the owners weigh in too.

Btw yes it is a blister pack. It is the retailers that request they be sealed as tight as possible. This is to reduce shoplifting.

Peter Gransee


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## Darell (Dec 8, 2001)

Feel free to put something on the package like "Member #887 says 'cool light!'"

I've always hated those seam-sealed blister packs. When I buy something, tear it open and then return it to the store because I didn't like it - I always wonder what happens to it. With the resealable jobs, the store can just hang it back on the shelf and be done with it. If Joe Public buys an Arc to see if he can survive with an LED light, and hates it - will the whole torn-up package be returned to you, the mfg? OOOhh... that would stink. But then, if the retailers won't accept it any other way, I guess there's no choice. Those little things would be easy to snatch, huh?

OK, I'm done rambling for the evening.


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## Brock (Dec 9, 2001)

Peter it sounds good to me. David would be the one to ask though. The more the merrier.


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## JohnG (Dec 9, 2001)

Will the new packaging sport the new logo?
What is the new logo?


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## remuen (Dec 9, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Ok, cool. I will wait until the owners weigh in too.

Btw yes it is a blister pack. It is the retailers that request they be sealed as tight as possible. This is to reduce shoplifting.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is always the same thing with the grat tiny little things: There are some pockets in which they vanish .. but it is a must to have such a blister pack. I rembember the eyes of my friends when I gave them a $25.00 unpacked flashlight. 

And of course each owner of an ARC should know the link to this BB! I'm happy that I found it!


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## Darell (Dec 9, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bluegreen:
*One of the most tempting things I've seen is the promo rack of goodies on the counter in the petrol station. Impulse buying, lots of colours to collect...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, I don't know. I just can't see a $25 light being an impulse buy for anybody at a gas station. Fill the tank, buy a flashlight - you're out the door 50-60 bucks lighter. I'm afriad that is a better location for the $1.98 disposable lights.


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## geepondy (Dec 9, 2001)

Thus far, the only retail outlet where I've seen these better incandescent/LED lights, such as Princeton Tec products, Photons, Infinity, etc. are sporting goods/outdoor stores. This will probably be the ARC's destiny. Walmarts, Kmart, Sears and Home Depot, the four retail stores that I've visted lately, generally only carry sub ten dollar flashlights as a rule with very few LED lights although Walmart is getting more progressive in that area. And of course all four of them carry mags. Many mags, mags everywhere.

Peter, could you weight in on what retailers may be carrying Arc products or do you just ship to general distribution outlets.


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## Gransee (Dec 9, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JohnG:
*Will the new packaging sport the new logo?
What is the new logo?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes John, the packaging will have the new logo. Remember the logo contest we did a couple of months ago? About a dozen freelance artists submitted various logos for that contest. A lot of hard work went into it and we tried to take as much time as possible to judge the works but to no avail. None of the entries where selected so we didn't make a big deal about it.



We also had hired a couple of artists to submit some logos. We finally found one that was ok, not spectacular, but it will work for now. I would have spent more time and money on this but we needed something for the packaging and basically ran out of time. 

The packaging on the other hand actually looks quite nice in my opinion. I'll post some pictures of it when we put a finished one together. I don't know why, sometimes you get fortunate and the artwork comes out better than you expected.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
*Thus far, the only retail outlet where I've seen these better incandescent/LED lights, such as Princeton Tec products, Photons, Infinity, etc. are sporting goods/outdoor stores. This will probably be the ARC's destiny. Walmarts, Kmart, Sears and Home Depot, the four retail stores that I've visted lately, generally only carry sub ten dollar flashlights as a rule with very few LED lights although Walmart is getting more progressive in that area. And of course all four of them carry mags. Many mags, mags everywhere.

Peter, could you weight in on what retailers may be carrying Arc products or do you just ship to general distribution outlets.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Geepondy, you are right about the big discount chains not carrying an expensive LED flashlight. Steve Gibson is our national sales rep and has done a great job in contacting the sporting goods, etc type stores that cater to the more niche markets. 

The goal is that you will be able to find at least one store in your area that carries the Arc flashlight. Again, if we are fortunate, it will be a local sporting goods, knife shop, gun store, or other specialty shop ("Sharper Image" is an example).

Btw, Steve lurks here on the CPF (everybody waive) and is planning to be at the SHOT show in Vegas this February to formally introduce the Arc flashlight to the retail world.

Peter Gransee


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## geepondy (Dec 9, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
* 

The goal is that you will be able to find at least one store in your area that carries the Arc flashlight. Again, if we are fortunate, it will be a local sporting goods, knife shop, gun store, or other specialty shop ("Sharper Image" is an example).


Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well for my local area, REI is the best bet. They seem very progressive in carrying better incandescent/LED lights. They do now carry the Infinity and I consider the Arc to be superior, at least for my needs. There are The Sharper Image and also Brookstone at the mall but they are definitely very niche and will certainly charge full retail.

IMO, I gotta think the ARC AAA will do very well in retail outlets. I'm not sure about the LS though. Is that being targeted for retail release as well? It might do well in a place like The Sharper Image where they could advertise it as the "best LED flashlight." They do have a $300 Panasonic electric razor there.


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## Chingyul (Dec 9, 2001)

Gransee, are you also gonna target Canadian retail? If you are, Mountain Equipment Co-op is probably the largest outdoor equipment retailer in Canada. They have a pretty good selection of lights (photon, princeton tec, pelican, Mags).
I think I posted this quite a while back.

Anyways, just my imput.
Dan


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## [email protected] (Dec 10, 2001)

Any chance on finding ARC in Europe?


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## bluegreen (Dec 10, 2001)

Advertising this BB sounds like a great idea!

The blister packs are a must to get the Arcs into retail. The Infinity blister packs are nice looking and are good in that you don't need to destroy the pack to get inside it. But as has already been mentioned, if they were on a shelf accessible to the general public the shop would be robbed blind. On the other hand unless the pack was 3 foot square it would still be a nice size to slip into a pocket.

Will there be POS promotional racks, posters etc? One of the most tempting things I've seen is the promo rack of goodies on the counter in the petrol station. Impulse buying, lots of colours to collect...


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## Klaus (Dec 10, 2001)

@Peter - re european ARC sales - I think if you want some european CPF members could very well give you some email addresses / URLs for some of the more advanced european outlets for flashlight / outdoor sales which could be good targets for ARC sales in europe - for germany this could be like www.globetrotter.de www.Toolshop.de www.supertronix.de - possibly much more if I look around some more.

And I just ordered my first ARC AAA in "LE"

Regards

Klaus


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## DavidW (Dec 10, 2001)

Peter,

Are you expecting anything in return? More potential customers? More input? Just more flashlight talk all around?


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## lightlover (Dec 10, 2001)

You can be sure that's the Boss speaking, our Great Leader.

Nothin' too hasty, no wasted words ......

lightlover


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## Gransee (Dec 10, 2001)

I think I got the boss now.





David, to answer your question: Yes to all three.

I am asking that we be allowed to mention the CPF on our packaging. I do not expect ad dollars, our own special forum section, or any other special treatment. I actually think that mentioning the CPF on our packaging will help us please our customers and increase our sales.

Instead of someone impulse buying one of our flashlights in a local store and us never hearing from them again, the CPF provides a non-partisan place where we can connect to them. 

We thought of adding a forum to our website like other manufacturers but with the CPF, people have the freedom to post whatever they want about our products, both good and bad. It is not our board, so we cannot censor it. 

True, reading and posting here takes a lot of time, but I do it because it is fun and I think it is valuable to our business.

Peter Gransee

Ps. We already advertise the CPF on our website. Do you have stats that show this is bringing in any noticable amount of new users?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 10, 2001)

David, I would suggest adding a box that asks new CPFers that are registering for the first time "How did you learn about the CPF".

In my case, it was from a conversation with Peter G. 

Sincerely,
Steve (FlashlightGuy)


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## DavidW (Dec 10, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Ps. We already advertise the CPF on our website. Do you have stats that show this is bringing in any noticable amount of new users? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ummm... yes, it shows. (more on that in the <A HREF="http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=26" TARGET=_blank>Questions or problems about this website and forum 
</A>). I've been relying on word of mouth rather than registering with search engines. I see demand here and there for such things. My guess is guys are glad this forum exists. They just wish they found it sooner. I'll be looking into better advertising later on. Right now I have more important things to take care of.

Go ahead Peter and advertise CPF on your product. And I think you should start your own forum. More of a factory/dealer/end user support forum. That plus the open discussion of CPF will give you maximum input on your product.


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## Gransee (Dec 10, 2001)

OK, thanks.

Peter


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## Gransee (Dec 10, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bbart:
*Any chance on finding ARC in Europe?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are talking to several distributors in the UK. These things sometimes take a while. We do finally have a Canadian distributor though.

Peter Gransee


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## One001 (Dec 10, 2001)

Hi Peter: I am a new member here. I bought my first ARC AAA Turquoise because of the excellent reviews I read on this board about your product and service. You shipped to me to Canada in a small package by USPS, and that was definitely the best way to do it. Couriers to Canada are the worst due to exhorbitant brokerage fees. Looking forward to the LS. I was trying to access the Colors on your website but it seems that this item is tied together with "Buy Now". That is, when I click on colors both Colors and Buy Now are highlighted, and I get linked to the dealer's page. I can't access the colors page.


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## Gransee (Dec 10, 2001)

Welcome One001!

You are right about the web site (dern thing). Here's a direct link:

Arc-AAA Colors

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 10, 2001)

I when I originally found the CPF it was through the Arc website. I stumbled across heaven somehow- I certainly wasn't looking for it. I never would have dreamed up such a forum and typed it into a search engine. So I think it is a great idea to stick the address around- Especially on the Arc packaging since Peter is such a father figure to us. Yep. Go for it.


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## txwest (Dec 10, 2001)

This may have been addressed before & I missed it, but has ARC ever considered selling just the heads of the AAA at a reduced price? It's got to cost quite a bit to make the body. I think it would be kind of nice to have several colors to pick from without the expense of the complete assy.
TX


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## Gransee (Dec 10, 2001)

TXwest, good idea and yes, it has been proposed before although it has been awhile.

The battery compartment makes up about 15-20% of the total cost of the light. That is why it is more affordable to offer different battery packs (a la Arc-LS) versus different illuminator heads.

Peter Gransee

I plan on posting an update tomorrow.


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## Gransee (Dec 10, 2001)

Here's another manufacturing picture... This one is of the laser that marks the flashlight housings. Looks kind of simple on the outside but it gets the job done quite well.

Laser Picture

Peter Gransee


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## coloradotim (Dec 11, 2001)

I saw one of those laser engravers being demo'ed at a woodworking show last weekend. Very cool! In addition to metal, it can also be used with wood, paper, glass, and who knows what else. And only $22,000 each!


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## remuen (Dec 11, 2001)

Peter Gransee:

I've just got two turquoise ARC's. I noticed three differences between them. 

1. The first one I tried has not a smooth beam pattern means one can clearly see some rings like in a incandescent reflector fl. The beam of the second one is much smoother.

2. The second one with the smoother beam is about 15...20% brighter than the first one. 

3. The positive contact of the first one is a soldering point as in the standard ARC, the positive contact of the second and brighter one is a metal plate like in the LE.

For me it looks like the first one is a standard turquoise ARC and the second one is a turquoise LE in a standard housing.

What is your explanation for this?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 11, 2001)

It's my understanding, electronically, that each and every LED has slight variations in the manufacturing process i.e. brightness, beam pattern, color,et cetera.

Therefore, LEDs are not perfectly created by Nichia or any other LED maker...Moreover, ARC or any other flashlight manufacurer cannot control this from happening...


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## JollyRoger (Dec 11, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*Peter Gransee:

I've just got two turquoise ARC's. I noticed three differences between them. 

1. The first one I tried has not a smooth beam pattern means one can clearly see some rings like in a incandescent reflector fl. The beam of the second one is much smoother.

2. The second one with the smoother beam is about 15...20% brighter than the first one. 

3. The positive contact of the first one is a soldering point as in the standard ARC, the positive contact of the second and brighter one is a metal plate like in the LE.

What is your explanation for this?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A metal plate? I wasn't aware of this. I noticed that in the ARC LE's (and I guess later ARC's) the soldering is much neater and smoother looking. Maybe you can mistake it for a metal plate?

I too have an ARC LE with the "rings." It's not as bright as my other LE and is just about the same color and quality as a regular ARC.


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## Gransee (Dec 11, 2001)

Remuen, Dim Bulb is right: there are variations in the LEDs from lot to lot. This usually affects the tint and to a lesser extent, the brightness. 

With the white, the tint is split into smaller lots when sorted, so this causes less variation.

As far as beam artifacts like rings, etc. The Turquoise has rings in it because of the lens used on the LED. We use the wide angle because it has the least amount of rings of all the Nichia blue-greens.

Peter Gransee


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## coolguy (Dec 11, 2001)

Hi Peter,
I heard somewhere that some ARC AAAs have LE bulbs in them. Is it true and how can you tell if the bulb is the S ranked bulb? I ordered 4 white AAA's before I knew about the LE(for gifts and one for me) and I read a bunch of posts. I immediately turned them all on and realized the one out of the bunch is definitely greener. Well, it has a kind of greenish tinge as opposed to that light violet blue tinge. 

Thanks


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## remuen (Dec 12, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by coolguy167:
*Hi Peter,
I heard somewhere that some ARC AAAs have LE bulbs in them. ...
Thanks*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Coolguy, Peter Gransee wrote in another thread:
--------------------------------------------
Some people may have not read my post on this in the other thread ("Arc Flashlights")...
Over the past 6 months the standard Arc-AAA has had three different ranks of white LED in them: R, B1S and B2S.

R is the standard Nichia white. S is the high brightness rank. B1 and B2 are the tint ranks with B1 being less blue and B2 being more blue.

Right now, we put the B2S in the standards and B1S in the LEs. But for a short time, we ran out of the B2 and where putting B1 in the standards. It was a hasty decision because we where out of stock and people had been waiting for a long time for their orders to be fullfilled. So some people may have standards that have the LE led. These should be all sold by now, there were only a few to begin with.

We are currently manufacturing standards with B2S Nichias and LEs with B1S Nichias. Notice both have the brighter S rank, the difference is in the tint.

Once the S rank stock drys out, the standard will go back to the R rank.
---------------------------------------------
I think that's the answer on your question.


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## remuen (Dec 12, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Remuen, Dim Bulb is right: there are variations in the LEDs from lot to lot. This usually affects the tint and to a lesser extent, the brightness. 

With the white, the tint is split into smaller lots when sorted, so this causes less variation.

As far as beam artifacts like rings, etc. The Turquoise has rings in it because of the lens used on the LED. We use the wide angle because it has the least amount of rings of all the Nichia blue-greens.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter
What is the explanation on the third point:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*3. The positive contact of the first one is a soldering point as in the standard ARC, the positive contact of the second and brighter one is a metal plate like in the LE.*]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does this mean, that the newest ARC's have a new kind of positive contacts and would therefore cause less problems?

By the way: 
Did you already have a contact with the Swiss Distributor I mentioned in a email a few weeks ago? As I mentioned I have preinformed them about the ARC and they are interested.


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## vcal (Dec 12, 2001)

FWIW-
I must admit I'm on my third exhanged Arc-AAA, but this one is the LE. After almost 3 weeks, I can find nothing to complain about. My previous two had several problems





And yes, this LED is definitely the B1S, and has almost as much output (based on light meter measurements) as my Photon II-with fresh 2016s.
BTW- I was one of the people who got a *B1S* LED in the Photon too! These two keyring lights are the ONLY 5mm white ones that are like that. (I've got maybe 10 other white LED flashlights, that are definitely more "purplish" when shone on a flat finish white wall in complete darkness). 
-IMO, with the terrific service that Gransee has given me, I would recommend ordering the LE while it's still available.-Yea, I know it's 35 bucks, but if you get a good one, it's worth it..





p.s.-if anybody out there has a turq/cyan Infinity for trade or sale, please let me know.


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## Gransee (Dec 12, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*Does this mean, that the newest ARC's have a new kind of positive contacts and would therefore cause less problems?

By the way: 
Did you already have a contact with the Swiss Distributor I mentioned in a email a few weeks ago? As I mentioned I have preinformed them about the ARC and they are interested.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was one batch of LE's (and a small number of standard colors) that intentionally had no solder applied to the PCB tin. This was a quick fix for the vertical o-ring problem introduced in machining. The latest versions though have correct machining so the solder is back.

Out of curiosity, I put one of the no-solder LEs on my keychain for going on two months now. I am suprised by how well the tin wears and have condsidered making them all that way. But it since it would only save money and not actually improve the product, we will keep the solder.

Swiss Distributor: I have been emailed by several. As they can tell you, I don't drive a energetic sell so it is up to them to move things forward. 

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Dec 12, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vcal:
*FWIW-
I must admit I'm on my third exhanged Arc-AAA, but this one is the LE. After almost 3 weeks, I can find nothing to complain about. My previous two had several problems





And yes, this LED is definitely the B1S, and has almost as much output (based on light meter measurements) as my Photon II-with fresh 2016s.
BTW- I was one of the people who got a B1S LED in the Photon too! These two keyring lights are the ONLY 5mm white ones that are like that. (I've got maybe 10 other white LED flashlights, that are definitely more "purplish" when shone on a flat finish white wall in complete darkness). 
-IMO, with the terrific service that Gransee has given me, I would recommend ordering the LE while it's still available.-Yea, I know it's 35 bucks, but if you get a good one, it's worth it..





p.s.-if anybody out there has a turq/cyan Infinity for trade or sale, please let me know.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know Doug, defects really upset me! I am so sorry that it took 3 replacements to get it right (at least so far the third one is working). 

True, I think that we have established a reputation for keeping at it until we get it right (otherwise I imagine that you wouldn't be recomending our products still). But we can both agreed that all this shipping wastes people's time. Our goal is to get it right on the first shipment. 

I looked at the returns for you and correct me if I am wrong we had:

- One that flickered
- One that required excessive tightening to turn on and would get stuck in moon mode

The first one was a electrical ground problem and the last one was a capacitor damaged during assembly. We have since then prescibed changes in the manufacturing process for both problems. We also added new tests for the final assembly to show that the changes are actually working. Those last two sentances are understating the changes we have made, but nothing says improvement like actually holding it in your hand.

Just so we are clear. I do read these forums. I do hear the problems. Thank you for being extremly patient. We are taking this seriously. We have made many changes. I believe the product is improving.

Peter Gransee


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## geepondy (Dec 12, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
Just so we are clear. I do read these forums. I do hear the problems. Thank you for being extremly patient. We are taking this seriously. We have made many changes. I believe the product is improving.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've ordered several Arc LE's now. I've had no problem with any of them, save the LEDs are not completely centered on most of them. Shining it against a white wall, you notice the off centered LED. Using it in real life situations, you don't. I would say the Arc is tremendously improved over it's initial offering.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 12, 2001)

Hey,

I just got my two white (one for me, the other a gift) Arc-AAA's and I can't say enough. Tough, bright, and small. Awesome.

Everyone who witnesses the light for the first time mentions the brightness. It seems an order of magnitude brighter than my Infinity - though I use them for different applications.

I do, however, have a question. Is the o-ring supposed to be completely covered by the battery barrel (when in the "on" position)? My o-ring only gets halfway in when the light turns on and won't go any farther. Is that right?

Anyway, I just wanted to add my 1/4th of a Euro to this discussion - and I can't wait for the LS to begin shipment!

Regards


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## Gransee (Dec 12, 2001)

Hello Phantom, the O-ring is supposed to be completely covered by the lip of the battery compartment while in the "on" and "off" positions. Off is 1/2 turn loosened from full on. This is an old problem that was identified several runs back, fixed and discussed in this forum. This is covered under the warranty. Please refer to the FAQ on our website for instructions on warranty returns.

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 12, 2001)

Peter,

Just a note to say a public thank you.

I got my AAA LE two days ago. The service from Arc was perfect. It's been burning pretty much non-stop since it got here. -That's through two tours of duty (and despite much abuse from my partner to, "Turn that damn thing off, and stop shining it in my eyes!") What a fantastic little piece of equipment! No one (me included) can believe how bright it is, and how something so tiny can be so durable. 

Well done sir!


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## Gransee (Dec 12, 2001)

Thank you Tortoise! It certainly makes my day to hear someone tell of how they use their Arc and how much they enjoy it.

Peter Gransee


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## The_LED_Museum (Dec 13, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*> -----Original Message-----
> From: [name omitted] [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:39 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: brand new flashlights that don't work
> 
> 
> I'm standing in the dark and it dosen't illuminate at all. If 
> you look real 
> close you see just a small red dot.
> 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clearly, this guy isn't the brightest bulb in the pack.




I'd hate to think what would happen if he ever got his hands on a 1W 808nm laser diode.


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## remuen (Dec 13, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*You know Doug, defects really upset me! ...

... Just so we are clear. I do read these forums. I do hear the problems. Thank you for being extremly patient. We are taking this seriously. We have made many changes. I believe the product is improving.

And in other post you wrote:
... Swiss Distributor: I have been emailed by several. As they can tell you, I don't drive a energetic sell so it is up to them to move things forward. 

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's what we feel. You stay in contact with us so we stay in contact with you - means also that we order your ARC's even we will maybe have a problem. 

Concerning the Swiss distributor: It's a pity because it would be much more easier for me to buy ARC's from them. But as far as I know they are in a very busy time now and I'm quite sure they will come back to you.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 13, 2001)

I seem to see some people complaining about the beam pattern on their ARC. I bought a white ARC LE about a month ago. Im happy with it. I do notice that the beam has distinct rings in it. In the middle is a small hot spot which the gradually fades in a concentric circle. Then there is an abrupt line where the beam changes into another concentric circle of slightly darker shade. Then there is another abrupt line where the beam fades into a dark concentric circle followed finally by a ragged blue fringe.

These effects can only be see within a foot or so. Outside that distance it is hard to notice the rings.

My question... Is this an expected beam pattern or am I missing out? Are there some ARC LEs out there with a flawless smooth beam? I like it just fine - dont worry peter I promise I wont send it back



but Im curious....


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## Gransee (Dec 13, 2001)

Hello EmmetFitzhume. I would have to see the beam (maybe post a picture?). It is normal to see a certain amount of "character" or "fingerprint" in the beam of each LED. Not even the LSs have a flawlessly uniform beam. 

Looking at a few white LEDs, I see rings, splotches in the phospor, star patterns (common), bond marks, etc.

All in all though, your typical white LED is almost always smoother than your typical incandescent.

Peter Gransee


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## Lonewolf (Dec 13, 2001)

What happened to thread about the keyring sheaths for the Arc AAA?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 14, 2001)

Peter: I dont have a digital camera. Ill poke around and see if I can borrow one and get a photo of this beam...

BTW: Do most digital cameras do decent low-light exposures? Ive been thinking of getting a digital camera for over a year now... Maybe Ill just buy myself a Christmas present..


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## Gransee (Dec 14, 2001)

*Arc Flashlight LLC will be introducing the new Arc-AAA and Arc-LS to the flashlight industry at the 2002 SHOT Show in Las Vegas.*

Springboard Engineering, Eternalight and Arc Flashlight will be sharing booth 5987 at the 2002 SHOT show, February 2-5 at the Las Vegas convention center.

Tickets cost $50 at the door. $15 VIP tickets are available from Arc Flashlight with enough notice.

From the SHOT Show website:

"The SHOT SHOW is the largest and most comprehensive marketplace for all professionals serving the shooting
sports and hunting industries.
Attendees:
The SHOT SHOW attracts buyers from all fifty states and more than sixty-five countries. These important
prospects represent dealers from specialty gunshops, specialty archery stores, multi-line sporting goods stores,
discount/department/chain stores, hardware stores, wholesale distributors, manufacturers, manufacturer’s
representatives, law enforcement, and much more. The 2000 Las Vegas event attracted 29,583 industry
professionals."

Peter Gransee


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## InTheDark (Dec 14, 2001)

Gransee,
This probably isn't the right place to post this question, but I haven't gotten a response from the e-mail I sent customer service. I ordered a light and a Luxeon star on Dec 2 (order #1036), but I just checked on my order yesterday and it said there was a hold on it. Is there a problem with the shipping or are you just getting swamped during the holidays? Thanks


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## Gransee (Dec 14, 2001)

InTheDark, your order shipped yesterday (the 13th). Yes, we are busy and I am behind on updating the order status to show that it shipped. My top priority is to make sure the contractors are double checking their work while making as many lights as possible. So, the book keeping tends to fall a few days behind.

Peter


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## Gransee (Dec 14, 2001)

*Manufacturing Update:*

The first run of LS parts has finished the anodizing process and are currently in the laser engraving process. They should be ready for final assembly and testing on Monday. Several of the contractors are working over the weekend to get this flashlight done before Christmas. Due to attrition in QC, the quantity of this first run is going to be smaller than anticipated.

A good quantity of Arc-AAA (all types) is coming off the assembly line right now and all back orders will ship by Wednesday of next week.

As most people know, the Arc-LS will go on sale tomorrow morning. Hopefully this goes smoothly. Happy Hunting everyone!

Peter Gransee


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## InTheDark (Dec 14, 2001)

Gransee,
what are you going to do with all the ones that didn't pass QC? are they going MRB, and is there a chance of buying any of the rejected ones? I'll gladly take anything you're throwing away.






Thanks for the update on the order too.


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## Sean (Dec 14, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Manufacturing Update:

Due to attrition in QC, the quantity of this first run is going to be smaller than anticipated.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you going to have more than enough for your _pre_-orders? I mean, if I order one Saturday, do I have a shot at one of the the first run? Or are there going to be more pre-orders than finnished LS's?


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## Gransee (Dec 15, 2001)

Sean, more preorders than finished units.

Peter


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## geepondy (Dec 15, 2001)

For those of you who didn't know/forgot, the www.arcflashlight.com site is now officially accepting orders for the Arc LS.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 15, 2001)

Peter... how about the distributors, when do they get them?

I'm on TTS's list.

- verge -


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 15, 2001)

Gee...my first post here. Hi Everybody! 

So, how many of you have already placed your orders for the LS? I would've had mine in a sooner if I hadn't left out the hyphens on my credit card number. As it is, I got order #1091. I hope the numbering started with 1000 and I got order #91. Then I might be able to get one of the serialized LS's.


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## Radiant (Dec 15, 2001)

Peter,
I found an error on your website, it says on the LS-AA pack page "Note: runner long time". I think "longer running time" is what you were going for


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## Gransee (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:
*Peter... how about the distributors, when do they get them?

I'm on TTS's list.

- verge -*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We will be shipping to the Distributors the same day we ship the first web orders. No preference to either one.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Radiant:
*Peter,
I found an error on your website, it says on the LS-AA pack page "Note: runner long time". I think "longer running time" is what you were going for



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Radiant! It's fixed now. I was in a rush to get the site running by 9.

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lurch556:
*Gee...my first post here. Hi Everybody! 

So, how many of you have already placed your orders for the LS? I would've had mine in a sooner if I hadn't left out the hyphens on my credit card number. As it is, I got order #1091. I hope the numbering started with 1000 and I got order #91. Then I might be able to get one of the serialized LS's.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've got mine ordered. Welcome to the forum.

Peter, what is the starting order number?

Clint


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## aso (Dec 15, 2001)

Peter 


Will the Curt Special make it to production?


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## geepondy (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*We will be shipping to the Distributors the same day we ship the first web orders. No preference to either one.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a possibility, you people ordering thru TTS could get your ARC LS's quicker then us ordering thru the web site if willing to pay extra for shipping. Three day shipping was the fastest offered on the Arc web site while I believe TTS offers overnight delivery.


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## Dave Wright (Dec 15, 2001)

Peter (or someone else who knows),

I not clear on one point regarding the LS. This thread is just too long to wade through and know I've found the answer for sure. Does the LS now have a protective lens cover to protect the LED - as suggested by Craig in his review? I believe he suggested Pyrex.

I've been using a AAA LE for a few weeks now. Kudos to you, your staff, and the various craftsmen for producing such an excellent light. The light color and level, convenience, and battery life are perfectly balanced.

The light is so close to perfect that some posters here have been reduced to prying at the smallest details to find problems. There have apparently been some issues serious enough to warrant your speedy replacements. To people who have complained about beam imperfections I say "compare it to any incandescent". Knurling quibbles? Ignore them, the knurling is perfect. I haven't noticed any lint sticking to the barrel, and the fine pattern feels almost like suede. Type III anodizing? That's nice, but it'll just be a little longer before the LE has a nice lived-in look. I didn't really like any of my knurled grip pens and pencils until their patterns had been knocked down to the brass anyway.

Sorry to ramble. Thanks again for coming up with a great light.

Dave


----------



## Sean (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave Wright:
*Peter (or someone else who knows),

I not clear on one point regarding the LS. This thread is just too long to wade through and know I've found the answer for sure. Does the LS now have a protective lens cover to protect the LED - as suggested by Craig in his review

Dave*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the LS has a protective lens but I forgot what it's made of.


----------



## Sean (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Sean, more preorders than finished units.

Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter,
About how long until the second run is complete? About 3 more weeks maybe?


----------



## Carpe Diem (Dec 15, 2001)

So Peter.... what did you do with all of your free time today?


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## Darell (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
*So Peter.... what did you do with all of your free time today?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>







Unfortunately (for him) he spent a bit of that "free time" chatting with me this morning.

And if I may risk swelling his head to the next hat size - He's a great guy who is building a great company on great products.

I ordered a handful of AAAs to give as gifts, but I'm leaning dangerously close to not letting them go now. I just can't stop playing with them! Hope I don't go blind.





Another vote here to start a new thread though. Maybe to christen the release of the LS? What's this thread now? Four months, 27 pages (!), and 1.5 million posts old?


----------



## vcal (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
-He's a great guy who is building a great company on great products.
I ordered a handful of AAAs to give as gifts, but I'm leaning dangerously close to not letting them go now. I just can't stop playing with them! Hope I don't go blind.




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dittos, darellflashlightnut



I've only activated my new Arc-LE about 385 times now, (in 3 weeks time), and haven't even seen a _hint_ of a flicker,-or any other malfunction


----------



## Darell (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vcal:
* I've only activated my new Arc-LE about 385 times now*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, see - my wife doesn't seem to realize that you have to do that to "break in" the flashlight just right. She keeps ignoring me, so I have to keep shining my light in her eyes - and that doesn't seem to make her appreciate the lights more


----------



## Darell (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vcal:
*
darellflashlightnut *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's got a nice ring to it. I should probably change my username


----------



## Gransee (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ccrowder:
*Peter, what is the starting order number?

Clint*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clint, the starting number is 1087.

Peter


----------



## Gransee (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aso:
*Peter 

Will the Curt Special make it to production?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are no plans for it right now. We only have the one prototype. I polled the forums a while back and there wasn't much demand for it. For those who don't remember the "Curt Special" is a dual cavity power pack for the LS. The front cavity is for the 123 cell that powers the light while the back cavity (also waterproof) is for an extra 123 cell or for storage of small articles.

Peter


----------



## Gransee (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave Wright:
*Peter (or someone else who knows),

I not clear on one point regarding the LS. This thread is just too long to wade through and know I've found the answer for sure. Does the LS now have a protective lens cover to protect the LED - as suggested by Craig in his review? I believe he suggested Pyrex.

I've been using a AAA LE for a few weeks now. Kudos to you, your staff, and the various craftsmen for producing such an excellent light. The light color and level, convenience, and battery life are perfectly balanced.

The light is so close to perfect that some posters here have been reduced to prying at the smallest details to find problems. There have apparently been some issues serious enough to warrant your speedy replacements. To people who have complained about beam imperfections I say "compare it to any incandescent". Knurling quibbles? Ignore them, the knurling is perfect. I haven't noticed any lint sticking to the barrel, and the fine pattern feels almost like suede. Type III anodizing? That's nice, but it'll just be a little longer before the LE has a nice lived-in look. I didn't really like any of my knurled grip pens and pencils until their patterns had been knocked down to the brass anyway.

Sorry to ramble. Thanks again for coming up with a great light.

Dave*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Dave for the kind words! The lens used is the stock prismatic lens made from optical plastic in a recessed aluminum collar. Pyrex is not needed since the lens does not require a high heat tolerance. Pyrex is typically used in Xenon type flashlights because they produce enough heat to melt a normal lens.

If subjected to a sharp instrument, the lens will scratch. Recessing the lens however, reduces this chance (the same idea is used on our Arc-AAA).

Peter


----------



## Gransee (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*Peter,
About how long until the second run is complete? About 3 more weeks maybe?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We expect the second installment at the end of January or beginning of February. These will be serialized units as well. Some of the orders received this coming week will not be fullfilled until then but will be given first priority on the Jan-Feb shipment. 

Peter


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## Gransee (Dec 15, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*





Unfortunately (for him) he spent a bit of that "free time" chatting with me this morning.

And if I may risk swelling his head to the next hat size - He's a great guy who is building a great company on great products.

I ordered a handful of AAAs to give as gifts, but I'm leaning dangerously close to not letting them go now. I just can't stop playing with them! Hope I don't go blind.





Another vote here to start a new thread though. Maybe to christen the release of the LS? What's this thread now? Four months, 27 pages (!), and 1.5 million posts old?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I enjoyed talking with a fellow, "flashaholic" who knows his stuff. 

Yes, we will have to start another thread eventually, otherwise the UBB software might start doing weird things. Maybe a new thread every 30 pages or something like that? At least until our 15 minutes of fame is up.





Peter

Wow, 5 posts in a row. I am on a roll!


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## Sean (Dec 16, 2001)

Peter,
You said you have more reservations than LS's. But how long are those reservations good? Not everyone will use theirs. So is there a chance of having enough (first run) to fill actual orders placed as of Saturday if a lot of reservations are not used? How will that work out?


----------



## Carpe Diem (Dec 16, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*Yeah, see - my wife doesn't seem to realize that you have to do that to "break in" the flashlight just right. She keeps ignoring me, so I have to keep shining my light in her eyes - and that doesn't seem to make her appreciate the lights more



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Darell... thanks for your post. Being a longtime lurker of CPF and a recently publicly-confessed flashaholic, I too have a wife who, no matter how loving she may be, just doesn`t understand my fascination with flashlights (especially Peter`s truly great products). It`s comforting to know I`m not alone.

I also join you in saluting Peter... from my personal experience, he makes every effort possible to not only make a product of the highest quality, but also (and in my opinion most importantly) every effort to keep his customers happy. A rare commodity in this day and age.

Thank you, Peter, and keep up the good work!


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## Gransee (Dec 16, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*Peter,
You said you have more reservations than LS's. But how long are those reservations good? Not everyone will use theirs. So is there a chance of having enough (first run) to fill actual orders placed as of Saturday if a lot of reservations are not used? How will that work out?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All reservations are good for the week of December 15th to the 22nd. After that, new orders with reservations will have the same priority as new orders without.

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 16, 2001)

Peter, I forgot to mention, when ordering the LS, my reservation number. Do you need that number or are you automatically checking the orders to see who had a reservation?

Clint


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## Gransee (Dec 16, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ccrowder:
*Peter, I forgot to mention, when ordering the LS, my reservation number. Do you need that number or are you automatically checking the orders to see who had a reservation?

Clint*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

_Please_ include the reservation number in the comments field on the order page. This saves me from having to search for it. Thanks!

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 16, 2001)

Well then Peter I goofed up. Should I send you an email with my reservation number? I already ordered one on Saturday. Of course I guess I could tell my wife I have to order another LS because I didn't do it right the first time. 

Clint


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## Darell (Dec 16, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
*
I also join you in saluting Peter... from my personal experience, he makes every effort possible to not only make a product of the highest quality, but also (and in my opinion most importantly) every effort to keep his customers happy. A rare commodity in this day and age.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think when we first met, I told you to go ahead and grab the damn carp!





The traits you mention are indeed rare (even endangered) these days. Most important to me is not just the initial quality of a product, but how a company backs up the product if there is a problem. So few companies realize this. It is refreshing to find a company like Arc, and it restores my faith in American industry.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 16, 2001)

(Hi all, kind of new here..)

Amen to that!! Companies everywhere can take a lesson from Peter Gransee and Arc!!

Keep up the good work!!

BTW, anyone know when an LS ordered today (12/16/01) would arrive (estimated arrival date?). I have a reservation #, but lost it!!


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## txwest (Dec 16, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Clint, the starting number is 1087.

Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
+++++++++++++++++++
I'm a little unsure of the starting # for orders being 1087. What happened to orders 1 thru 1086? I am # 1163. Where does this put me? TX


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## dan (Dec 16, 2001)

The numbering scheme has not changed since prior to the release of the LS. I placed an order on 11/27 for some arc-aaa's and had order number 1021. (Same Yahoo ordering system for multiple products on the site)

If you are 1163, you are the (1163-1087)= 77th person to order via the website.

This also means that some of those 77 may have ordered products other than the arc-ls.


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## Wits' End (Dec 17, 2001)

I know the LS is on the front burner(s) right now, but is there any news of the CPF edition of the AAA Arc? I'm holding off on ordering an Arc till I know about this edition. Thanks


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 17, 2001)

That means I got the 5th order!!


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## JollyRoger (Dec 17, 2001)

And I guess that means I got the first one...but this doesn't mean I'll get the lowest serial number for sure...


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 17, 2001)

Hey guys, anybody got a good estimation for when these will hit our doorsteps? I mean reserved ones only...


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 17, 2001)

Txwest,

Maybe the first 1086 are for distributors?????

Clint


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## geepondy (Dec 17, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Reflex:
*Hey guys, anybody got a good estimation for when these will hit our doorsteps? I mean reserved ones only...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only Peter can answer that! Peter, for us that have reserved ones, is there any ghost of a chance, they will ship by Tuesday to arrive at our doorsteps on Friday? Next week, I'm sure probably some people including myself, will be travelling and won't be at home.


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## Sean (Dec 17, 2001)

Peter,
Any chance we could see some pictures of the finished/shipping LS version or point me in the direction of were some new pics might be?


----------



## Gransee (Dec 17, 2001)

We hope to ship a small quantity this Friday. After that, the next shipment will be towards the end of January.

Pictures are on the website and in this thread (about half way). More to come later.

I would like to formally introduce Steve Gibson, our national sales rep to the CPF. He goes by the userid "FlashlightGuy".

Steve is the one to contact for retail sales. He has an extensive background in retail including managing several malls.

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 17, 2001)

Hello fellow CPF'ers.

If you are a retail dealer - or have a friend that is, and you would like me to contact them regarding carrying ARC flashlights, please email me with appropriate info... and I'll contact them.

Thanks,
Steve Gibson - National Sales Rep. for
ARC Flashlight

PS - Any "tech" questions should be addressed to Peter Gransee at ARC (he's the master "techie"..)


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 17, 2001)

Hey Steve,

Welcome to the forum.

Clint


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 17, 2001)

Hello Clint,

Thanks for the "welcome" note!

The CPF'ers seem to be a really cool bunch of guys - or I guess I should say "bunch of flash-o-holics"! (PS- I admit it, I'm also a flash-o-holic).

Best wishes for a Happy Holiday Season and a Wonderful New Year!


----------



## lightlover (Dec 17, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by witsend:
*... is there any news of the CPF edition of the AAA Arc? I'm holding off on ordering an Arc till I know about this edition. Thanks*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too, any news - can the production schedules be arranged to allow for this one, or are the other new products having to take precedence ?

(I think that there are a quite a few flashlight companies desperately making sure that things are good for February's Shot Show.)

Any more manufacturing pics Peter ?

And welcome, Steve.

lightlover





Ps - What is "Springboard Engineering" ?


----------



## JollyRoger (Dec 17, 2001)

Flashlightguy, I welcome you as well...and hope you're prepared to take all the bugging that us "flashaholic" customers will give you regarding those orders!!!


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 17, 2001)

Anybody got a beam comparison between the Lightwave 4K and the LS? It's my brightest led light to date, and I'm curious about how the LS stacks up against it...


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## Carpe Diem (Dec 18, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*We hope to ship a small quantity this Friday. After that, the next shipment will be towards the end of January.

Pictures are on the website and in this thread (about half way). More to come later.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter... since it looks like a lot of the orders won`t be sent out in time to be given as Christmas presents, it would be helpful if you would post new pictures of the finished Arc LS this week. That way, if we don`t get the flashlights in time, we can at least give out nice pictures of what they`ll be getting later once the flashlights are received. Thanks!


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 18, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flashlightguy:
*
The CPF'ers seem to be a really cool bunch of guys - or I guess I should say "bunch of flash-o-holics"! (PS- I admit it, I'm also a flash-o-holic).




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But getting to be a flash-o-holic and getting paid for it is even better


----------



## Lonewolf (Dec 18, 2001)

Peter I received 2 LEs a month ago and I commend you on a superb product. I was a little hesitant about spending $35 on a keychain light(bought directly from you) but I know that when I turn it on it will always work. This light is built to last a lifetime so it is well worth it. The Rolls Royce of keychain lights. I have to admit all you had to do was make some minor revisions from the original to produce a perfect product. 
I am definitely going to buy an LS with the full kit I figure I will wait until the feedback comes in and see if you make any improvements. My one suggestion is for people like me buying a full kit. I would carry the 123 battery pack on my keychain and leave the AA battery pack in my glove box with a couple of lithiums and if the battery pack had a cover something simple like a plastic cap I could use the battery pack as a storage container for the batteries. And if needed be able to change to a different battery pack without having to need two heads, the cost of an additional head being $67. Let me know if this is feasable.Thank you for any input.


----------



## Darell (Dec 18, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flashlightguy:
*
The CPF'ers seem to be a really cool bunch of guys
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm. I guess we haven't met yet.


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## Gransee (Dec 18, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
*Peter... since it looks like a lot of the orders won`t be sent out in time to be given as Christmas presents, it would be helpful if you would post new pictures of the finished Arc LS this week. That way, if we don`t get the flashlights in time, we can at least give out nice pictures of what they`ll be getting later once the flashlights are received. Thanks!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Carpe Diem, I wished these could all be ready in time for Christmas! I will make it a goal to post some pictures over the weekend. 

Peter


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## Gransee (Dec 18, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 5BY5:
*Peter I received 2 LEs a month ago and I commend you on a superb product. I was a little hesitant about spending $35 on a keychain light(bought directly from you) but I know that when I turn it on it will always work. This light is built to last a lifetime so it is well worth it. The Rolls Royce of keychain lights. I have to admit all you had to do was make some minor revisions from the original to produce a perfect product. 
I am definitely going to buy an LS with the full kit I figure I will wait until the feedback comes in and see if you make any improvements. My one suggestion is for people like me buying a full kit. I would carry the 123 battery pack on my keychain and leave the AA battery pack in my glove box with a couple of lithiums and if the battery pack had a cover something simple like a plastic cap I could use the battery pack as a storage container for the batteries. And if needed be able to change to a different battery pack without having to need two heads, the cost of an additional head being $67. Let me know if this is feasable.Thank you for any input.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello 5BY5, the idea of caps for the battery packs has been suggested before. We actually have waterproof caps made for the battery packs to protect them during the plating process. They are thick aluminum and not too pretty since they wheren't made with looks in mind. After I get caught up (?), I could post some pics of them. We could eventually spruce the design up a little and offer them for sale. They probally would go for under $8-9/each.

But, for now, I am working on one thing only, shipping the LS head and power packs!





Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Dec 18, 2001)

Some notes...

- I am not able to respond to email as fast as I normally do. This is due to a combination of long days and higher email volume. Please bear with me if I take several days to reply or entirely loose your message (it has happened).

- Even though I posted here that all orders for the LS will be put on "hold" until we sort through them, this is a common email question sent to me ("why is my LS on hold?"). I know not everyone has had time to read through the few



messages in this thread, so I understand completely.

- Right now we are putting orders into two catagories, those that will ship from the production run working right now and those that will ship from the next (or later) run(s). 

- When asked when the first shipment will be, the short answer is "I do not know". This is a new product, new assembly line, etc. We don't have a baseline established yet for how long each process takes. I orginally was estimating that we would make our first shipment this Friday but several enforcements of "Murpy's Law" have conspired to make this less likely. It might be after Christmas before we ship one single flashlight. I will say more about where we are at currently later in this post.

- Because we probally won't make it in time for Christmas I will honor your requests for me to post more pictures of the flashlight so they may be given as promissaries (or whatever you wish).

* Manufacturing Update *

Here's where we are at as of tonight (12/18):

The machining for the head, 123 and 1AA assemblies has been done and the pieces have been anodized. The 2AA packs are still being machined.

Laser inscripting has been completed. Serial numbers have been printed on each lens collar.

PCB's for all colors has been completed and tested. Centering has been completed.

Incoming orders files have been recieved, matched, prioritized and delivered to the warehouse.

We began lens installation today and hit a snag. What seemed to work ok on the prototypes doesn't want to work on the factory floor. We have ruined many lenses today trying to get this work. The epoxy that is used to seal them keeps leaking around the lens and fogging it. As of tonight, I have no idea how we will solve this. A solution usally comes to one of us after awhile. If one doesn't we are up a creek. We will try some new ideas tomorrow. 

Once that problem is solved, the assembly should only take another day or two after that. Testing should take a day. We could still make by Friday if the lens problem is solved tomorrow and the rest of the assembly goes without a hitch. Otherwise, it will be after Christmas most likely. 

I am not trying to alarm anyone by given the intimate details of our manufacturing. This is so you have a better idea of where we are at. I have also left out some details that our of a proprietary nature for obvious reasons.

I will keep you posted.

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 19, 2001)

Peter, we use epoxy quite a bit with missile assembly. Some of our tricks are a) fool around with cure temperature to speed up or slow down the hardening b) masking around the area that you don't want to have "outgassing" from the epoxy (a sticky teflon dot of just the right diameter that you can peel off after the epoxy has dried) c) fool around with the mix ratio of the epoxy to change it's characteristics d) if you have access to a vacuum chamber you could make the way the material cures less messy e) use less epoxy on a more rough surface, i.e. microblast the aluminum/glass interface area with a pen-grit blaster (aluminum oxide grit works well).

I know this may not solve your particular problem but hopefully it can spark some brainstorming. Email me at work [email protected] if you have any materials questions.

Good luck,
Chris


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## Carpe Diem (Dec 19, 2001)

Peter... thanks for the insight on your most recent manufacturing problems. We`ll be patient. You just take the time you need to get it done right.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, your manufacturing process is supposed to be hard...if it was easy, everyone would be doing it!

Good luck to you!


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## geepondy (Dec 19, 2001)

Hi Peter,

I understand the problems and resigned myself to the fact that I won't be receiving the LS for Christmas which is OK. However when they do ship, for those of that requested the three day shipping when ordered from your sight, will you send some sort of email ship notice (possibly with a tracking notice), so we will know it is on the way?


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## remuen (Dec 19, 2001)

A question to Peter Gransee:

*Are the white Nichia LED's now brighter?
----------------------------------------*

Hi Peter

I buy my Nichia LED's from a traffic light manufacturer. I've just got my last order with twenty such white LED's.

Astonishing for me is that according to the shipment papers their specification are now *3.6V 20mA 8000mcd 20 degrees*. 

This manufacturer uses his own article numbers so it's impossible to identify the LED's. But I found a designation L5W54N bS which could be a Nichia type (the standard type is NSPW500BS).

Peter, I think you're the only one which can say me if this is really a Nichia LED which has such an exceptional brightness?

By the way: I've seen on the Nichia homepage that the white standard Nichia LED's NSPW500BS are now specified with 6400mcd. I thought it was till now "only" 5600mcd?


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## JollyRoger (Dec 19, 2001)

Peter, how about trying "silicon caulk-type" material to seal the lens in? It works great for many applications...and it's water proof. It's also a bit flexible (not too much, though) so that if you test it out and don't like it, you can rip it off w/o hurting the lens.

Goop!, Plumber's Goop, Automotive Goop, etc. They all work great.

I would wait a bit before actually applying it, as it will not run as much. Maybe wait a bit longer for the epoxy, too? That way, it's more goopy and will run less?


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## napalm-2002 (Dec 19, 2001)

Gransee

i have no problems waiting for the arc-ls

but when do you believe the arc-le and arc-aaa will ship.i placed an order @ www.onestopknifeshop.com on 11-9-01

they say they are waiting for your product?
is that true or did they screw up and not want to admit it?either way i realize i will not get them for x-mas.but i am worried about my order for the arc-le.i heard they were all gone. i heard it through the grapevine.i hope there are more to ship out or that you will make more.
its just that i want one bad and i placed my order over a month ago right after i heard of the arc-le.i dont want to not get one.i thought i was ordering quick enough to get one or more.


by the way i mean no disrespect to you for my post i just really want a arc-le not so much quick but i dont want to be left out!

thank you


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## Gransee (Dec 19, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by napalm-2002:
*Gransee

i have no problems waiting for the arc-ls

but when do you believe the arc-le and arc-aaa will ship.i placed an order @ www.onestopknifeshop.com on 11-9-01

they say they are waiting for your product?
is that true or did they screw up and not want to admit it?either way i realize i will not get them for x-mas.but i am worried about my order for the arc-le.i heard they were all gone. i heard it through the grapevine.i hope there are more to ship out or that you will make more.
its just that i want one bad and i placed my order over a month ago right after i heard of the arc-le.i dont want to not get one.i thought i was ordering quick enough to get one or more.


by the way i mean no disrespect to you for my post i just really want a arc-le not so much quick but i dont want to be left out!

thank you*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Napalm-2002. 1SKS is telling you the best they know. The fact is that we haven't been able to give them more exact info and have delayed their order several times. This is true for everyone- 1SKS is no different. 

We did ship 1SKS's order today via overnight UPS. Hopefully is arrives tomorrow- UPS has lost three packages in the past week. Yep, I know there are other shipping choices. We tried them- it's Christmas.

The LS will not be ready for Christmas!

Nothing's really changed on our end, it just I don't want to dissapoint anyone further so, "the LS will not be ready in time for Christmas".

Here's and update on the LS production:

Remember the problem we where having with the epoxy yesteday? Well this afternoon we got it mostly fixed (I just noticed Roger's suggestion of using Goop which is exactly what we used). The defect rate is painfully high, but some assemblies are at least progressing to the next step.

Tomorrow, we begin attaching the lens assembly to the electronics assembly. I tested a few tonight and every single one appears to be off center. I guess that is today's "impossible problem".

More to come...

Peter Gransee

ps. The LS is not shipping in time for Christmas. There I said it. Sorry!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 19, 2001)

You know what would help tide us soon-to-be LS owners? More pics!!


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## napalm-2002 (Dec 19, 2001)

thanks for the update!


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## GlockDoc (Dec 19, 2001)

Peter, thanks for the update. Just do what you do and we'll be here when they are ready





GD


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## Gransee (Dec 19, 2001)

Thanks so much people. I have the entire team working hard on this. We will solve the problems with this first run. I am confident that succesive runs will produce higher yields and ease our back order status.

Btw, You may have noticed that our website says we are out of everything right now. Santa cleaned us out.

Looking forward to solving some manufacturing problems tomorrow!

I am going to take some pictures this weekend and post them here.

Peter Gransee


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## JollyRoger (Dec 20, 2001)

Yes, Peter. I think all 1000+ members of the CPF are behind you right now. You've come all this way....no use in rushing at the last minute to get it out before Christmas. I was hoping I'd get it this, year (like a lot of us) but I think all of us would rather wait ANOTHER MONTH (if it takes that long) so that you can really spend the time on your product, as well as reduce your losses from ruining units during the assembly process. I'm sorry that so many optics, etc. have been destroyed. It must be a great cost....that you have to bear, since you already stated the purchase price and most people ordered this time around.

P.S. Let us know your problems on the forum! We'd like to help you out, if possible! Too bad I couldn't get the credit for the epoxy fix...





hehe...


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## Gransee (Dec 21, 2001)

Roger, you were probally sending me suggestion vibes about the goop as I was driving because that is when it came to me. 

Thanks for the support!

*Update:*

(lots of pictures in this post as requested!)

Today we finished assembly on the limited number of LS illuminators from the first batch. They are in testing right now and we hope to ship them right after Christmas. Here's a pic of them waiting for the next test:

LS flashlights ready to test

We are also still waiting on the 2AA packs to finish their anodize process. Those should be done next week as well.

We will be closed until Wednesday the 26th of next week. I will try to visit the CPF over the break from time to time though.

As requested, here are the Arc-LS pictures (no substitute for the real thing though!):

Some are kind of goofy...

Note: It is might be easier to download them and then use your image viewer to flip through them. Some of these files are kinda big for a slow modem. 

Late1
Late2
Late3
Nativity1
Nativity2
Nativity3
Laptop1
Laptop2
Goofy1
Goofy2
Top view showing lens
Tools1
Tools2
Tools3
Tools and Santa
Worse case tint variation between two whites
White beam vs Amber beam
White vs cyan
White vs blue
White vs green
White vs red
2AA white vs 1AA white

Have a Merry Christmas everyone!

Peter Gransee


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## Sean (Dec 21, 2001)

Peter,
Thanks for the great pictures!


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Reflex:
*Anybody got a beam comparison between the Lightwave 4K and the LS? It's my brightest led light to date, and I'm curious about how the LS stacks up against it...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See this link: http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/agilent.htm


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 21, 2001)

Peter,
Great news that work is nearly complete. Hey, if you have finished the single AA power supplies will those people (hint hint) who only ordered a single AA power supply + head receive their orders sooner? Example: Order #1143.....

I promise to post action pics and a review...pleeze? huh? pleeze?...


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## vcal (Dec 21, 2001)

Peter Gransee,
To an enthusiast like me, those pictures are like a Christmas present. I can only imagine the production/business headaches you must've gone through lately. I'm glad you have maintained a sense of humor and even a little whimsy





p.s.IMO-it's really _great_ to see that somebody has the balls to bring out something truly innovative like this product





Hope you are very successful in your venture and...Merry Christmas, Mr. G


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## Carpe Diem (Dec 21, 2001)

Peter... thanks for the pictures. Enjoy your Christmas!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 21, 2001)

Thanks for the link, Sean!! That really cleared things up for me!! Wow, that Arc LS is going to be awesome!!

Thanks also to Mr. Gransee for the pics!! They are all comfortably resting in 'My Pictures'





I know the Arc LS will be perfect when it's done, Peter. I'll take 'perfection later' over 'flawed now' any day of the week!!


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## The_LED_Museum (Dec 22, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*Peter,
Thanks for the great pictures!


See this link: http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/agilent.htm*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That isn't the picture you want. That is a *bare* LS LED run at just under 200mA, so the comparison is really somewhat invalid if you're looking for a true comparison between actual flashlights.

I will compare a production Arc LS flashlight and a Lightwave 4000 flashlight as soon as I have them.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 22, 2001)

Stingmon, based on your experience, will the Arc be significantly brighter than the Lightwave 4k?


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## vcal (Dec 22, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Reflex:
*Stingmon, based on your experience, will the Arc be significantly brighter than the Lightwave 4k?




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FWIW-Not Stingmon, of course, but I remember seeing the 4K vs. the 2-AA LS prototype somewhere on this forum, and they (overall) were similar in output-considering the totally different character of the color and beam shape.
IMO-the production version should outperform the 4K.
-But almost an apples and oranges comparison..:O

Also, keep in mind-the Arc-LS is a _much_ smaller flashlight that the LW4000


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 23, 2001)

Thanks, vcal...

I'm really just looking for a reference against the projected light output of the Arc LS. I'm sure I'll be impressed by Gransee's new product, in any case!!!

I know of no one who can call him/herself a more competent, attentive, honest, effective
businessman than Peter Gransee. I can only hope other companies (any, and all) attempt to become what Arc flashlight already is....


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 23, 2001)

Peter,
Any possibility to get a photo with all the battery packs light output comparison. I would love to see how the 123 fares. In previous photos it seemed brighter than the 1AA but slightly less than the 2AA.


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## geepondy (Dec 23, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Reflex:
*
I'm really just looking for a reference against the projected light output of the Arc LS. I'm sure I'll be impressed by Gransee's new product, in any case!!!
...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brock had mentioned that the output was very close in intensity to that of the Trek 14. Not owning either light, I would think that the Trek 14 may be slightly brighter then the Lightwave 4K, so this would make the Arc LS brighter then the 4k as well?


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## Chris M. (Dec 23, 2001)

For a reference to the probable light output of the ArcLS, there`s a thread where I posted a load of pictures of its beam shone on a common household object



compared to quite a few others. Sorry, no LW4000 in this particular round, but I did do a seperate side by side shot of the two which I will go and find in a moment.

Here`s where those beam shots are at-
<i>"Toliet Testing"</i> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=001065 

~~~~~~~~~~~

While I`m here, mr Gransee, could you answer a little question I have? 
Will us reviewers be sent Arc-LS`s from the current run that is nearly finished, or do we have to wait till the next lot are finished (or later)? I just can`t wait to see the finished article especially now since seeing your photos. That is one good looking light



And who knows, maybe I`ll finish the new Torch Reviews site by the time it arrives here in`t UK!


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## Chris M. (Dec 23, 2001)

Here is that beam shot (on my LED-Museum clone target) of the A-LS against the LW4000.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.millinship/alslw4000.jpg 


Impressive little thing isn`t it!


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## txwest (Dec 23, 2001)

Impressive little thing isn`t it!




[/QB][/QUOTE]
****************
What would be even more impressive is if you had 2 of each light & could have each in the picture along with their output spot. Especially if the LS was setup with the 123 battery. (David & Goliath??) TX


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## bluegreen (Dec 23, 2001)

Just seen the LS pics. Wow! The 123 and 1AA setups are way cool. Thanks Peter, it really will be worth the wait.


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## L.E.D. (Dec 23, 2001)

Wow, the beam shape from those shots looks like they've improved the "blobiness"?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 23, 2001)

Much thanks, Chris M. 
That's just what I was looking for.
Now I can justify my $100.00 light to my friends





"See, its *this size*, but THIS bright!!", (usually followed by a blast from the Lightwave at point blank range)!!


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## Gransee (Dec 23, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris M.:
*mr Gransee, could you answer a little question I have? 
Will us reviewers be sent Arc-LS`s from the current run that is nearly finished, or do we have to wait till the next lot are finished (or later)? I just can`t wait to see the finished article especially now since seeing your photos. That is one good looking light



And who knows, maybe I`ll finish the new Torch Reviews site by the time it arrives here in`t UK!







*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How is everyone's Christmas holiday coming along?

Chris, I am looking forward to your review of the production model. It will be a couple of months before we have an extra to send out for reviews and then even longer before we sample them out to large companies.

The orginal plan was that we would have plenty on the first run and be able to rush samples to the reviewers. But alas, we are sold out.

Few color LSs will make it through the first run. The centering problem is worst on the colors and they are less likely to pass the QC tests. I may ask some people if they want their orders sent in two shippments.

Btw, the dark blue CPF special Arc-AAA was supposed to be tested by now. I order several colors of finish from the plater but he didn't get to it yet. I was hoping I would have something to show by now. He says he will get to it the first part of January.

You know, I get tired of constant delays. 

Anyways... back to the Christmas celebrations! Merry Christmas everyone. I hope you are with family and/or friends!

Peter Gransee


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## geepondy (Dec 23, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Anyways... back to the Christmas celebrations! Merry Christmas everyone. I hope you are with family and/or friends!
Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Merry Christmas to you too Peter and all of the Arc family. I'm with my parent's in cold, snowy (but beautiful) northern Vermont. Out of all my 2001 purchases, I consider the Arc AAA LE to be the most significant and enjoyed.


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## Carpe Diem (Dec 23, 2001)

Ditto... from Wisconsin!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 23, 2001)

I agree. Unfortunately we are in stinking hot weather here in Oz. 36 degrees Celsius today. Wonder how hot it will be on Christmas day tomorrow. I wish we had a Winter christmas. Actually I wish we had winter all the time! We don't even get snow anytime where I live. Even my LE will start sweating soon!!! (Which by the way found my friends glasses he had left on the beach. We came back looking for them and the light 'I just so happened to be carrying' reflected off the 1cm square area that wasn't covered with sand! ARC LE SAVES THE DAY!!! Oh, and it earned me a 6 pack of beer reward!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 24, 2001)

Ditto from California...!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 25, 2001)

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year to all of the ARC family and friends.

Steve


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## Gman (Dec 25, 2001)

Peter, how come my LS order is on hold?

I made a reservation but accidently deleted
it so I couldn't furnish you with the number. I assumed you would look it up based on my name or email, no could do? 

So now I'm stuck until Febuary? unacceptable! (kidding) Whats the deal?


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## Gman (Dec 25, 2001)

oops! Forget that last post Peter! I should have looked through the previous posts first!

Sorry....


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## Gandalf (Dec 26, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris M.:
*Here is that beam shot (on my LED-Museum clone target) of the A-LS against the LW4000.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.millinship/alslw4000.jpg 


Impressive little thing isn`t it!




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is really noticeable, and *very* impressive, to me at least, is how blue the LW 4000 looks, compared to the Arc-LS. The light from the Arc-LS looks much more white, unlike any Nichia white LED's. So much white, usable light, from such a little package. The Arc-LS will be a real piece of artistry, when all of the bugs are worked out. Waiting is difficult, though....


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## Gransee (Dec 26, 2001)

Hello again. I trust everyone had a great Christmas. I will be posting an update on the LS this weekend. Right now we are waiting for the 2AA compartments to come back from the plater (anodize).

Peter Gransee


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## The_LED_Museum (Dec 26, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gandalf:
*The light from the Arc-LS looks much more white, unlike any Nichia white LED's. So much white, usable light, from such a little package*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Compared to all other white LED flashlights, the LS has a very natural looking white light with very little blue in it. Most people should find this color quite pleasing to the eye, especially those who just can't stand the distinct blue tinted Nichias but put up with them anyway.

Those who will be most surprised by the LS will be those who've loved & used flashlights like the Lightwave 4000 or the Expedition 300, or smaller lights like the Avalanche headlamp or the Eternalights or the Lightwave 2000 or the noticeably blue tinted Pelican L1 & CMG O4. Users of these lights will *really* see the difference.


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## LEDagent (Dec 26, 2001)

I have a question for Peter Gransee,

I've been away from the boards for a while now becuase of Christmas. I put an ARC-LS on reserve and my reservation number is 862. I was just wondering how i can still order one.

Can i still get the reserved number etched?
Have any been sent out?
If i order now, how long do you think it'll take before it'll get to my door step?

THanks Gransee, Merry Christmas! I hope you had a good one!


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## Daniel Ramsey (Dec 27, 2001)

Hello Mr. Gransee, I just placed an order for both of your current models but I mistakenly used an old address from Yahoo, this address is where I live but here in Alaska we do not have US Postal service to some communities like mine, however I do have UPS. I don't know if you have the same information I have about my order # flashlight-1210 but if you do please send it when the products are available to my "billing address" of; Daniel Ramsey po box 872863 Wasilla, Alaska 99687-2863 Thanks a whole bunch, I just bought a Nightbuster 18 from Glowbug after using my earlier model Nightbuster 8 during our long and dark winter here in Alaska and when i heard about your new model coming out soon I had to have it. If there ever was a ripe market for LED long burn/cold weather resistance/durability its here in Alaska. Typically right now we only have several hours of "twilight" and usually its dark many hours while I must check equipment and trucks every morning at work. I was going to build my own special light but it looks like you are heading in the right direction of using one lamp instead of many LEDs like the other brands. Very few people have even seen LED flashlights except the hard core dog mushing teams. Anyway keep up the work and quality for i have been reading most of these posts going back a few months and you care very much about customer sasisfaction, got any job openings?


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## Quickbeam (Dec 27, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What is really noticeable, and *very* impressive, to me at least, is how blue the LW 4000 looks, compared to the Arc-LS. The light from the Arc-LS looks much more white, unlike any Nichia white LED's. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just to second Telephony's info, and on a _slightly_ more technical note (for anyone interested...), the reason for the tinting is how the LEDs produce their light. They do not produce an even spectrum spread when you analyze the light coming from them. The common Nichia whites have a noticable spike in the blue area (hence the bluish tint), the Nichia B1 tint white have a spike in the green area (Arc LE), while the Luxeon Star white has a spike in the orange/amber area, giving it a more "incandescent" tint while still providing full spectrum light. This is often judged as a more pleasant tint to work with since the amber focuses better than the blue on the back of our retina.

I simply love the light output from my personal white Luxeon Star mods. Add in all of Peter's innovations and quality and this light will be hard to beat.


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## Cyclops942 (Dec 27, 2001)

First, to Peter Gransee:
Hats off to you on your continued commitment to quality! Although I anxiously await my white and cyan Arc-LSes (ordered through TTS), and wish they were in my hot little hands right now, I believe and have faith that the wait is necessary.

Having said that mature, adult-type remark, let me also express the child in me: *I want my Arc-LS! I want my Arc-LS!*








Also, the pix were great, and it is really neat to be able to show my wife that our respective hobbies actually *do* go together: Precious Moments figurines for her, and (obviously) flashlights for me. I especially appreciate the ones showing the Arc-LSes illuminating the Nativity scenes.


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## Gransee (Dec 27, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEDagent:
*I have a question for Peter Gransee,

I've been away from the boards for a while now becuase of Christmas. I put an ARC-LS on reserve and my reservation number is 862. I was just wondering how i can still order one.

Can i still get the reserved number etched?
Have any been sent out?
If i order now, how long do you think it'll take before it'll get to my door step?

THanks Gransee, Merry Christmas! I hope you had a good one!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello LedAgent. No LSs have been sent out yet. The serial number has to do with when your order is recieved not the reservation. If you order now it will hopefully be February when you get your order. This is an estimate of course and subject to change (as we have seen countless times). I can say that we do eventually ship product around here though. It looks like we will be sending out a limited number of LSs to back orders in less than a week's time. These are for orders that where placed the very day we opened the system (the 19th of Dec).

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Dec 27, 2001)

I will be posting a full update this weekend. For now, and as today we are waiting on the 2AA compartments to finish at the anodize process before we can send out the LS kits. We will be sending out a small number (mostly white with a few colors that survived QC). I think we can ship this small number in about a week's time. 

Some of the metal parts for the next run are already at the plater and the PCB's are done. What is going to hold up the second batch (and why I have tried to give us lots of time by projecting February) will be getting new lenses from lumileds. We have had them on order for several months now.

Today in a spare moment, I tested the new Cree UV LEDs (395 and 400nm) as candidates for the Arc-AAA UV. I am going to test these more but for now we will stick with the LEDs we already use (Nichias).

The extended run time versions of the Arc-AAA white are finished but I haven't had a moment to test them. I would send them to Craig but if I am not mistaken, I think he's already booked for some time.

Peter Gransee


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## Wits' End (Dec 28, 2001)

I missed any previous post about an extended run time Arc. Can someone shed some light on this for me. I searched and only came back here, even a page number would help. There was some talk about ending this topic and starting a new one. AMEN. I know Peter has lots of extra time









, how about a general update and a new thread starting with the new year. 

Please don't forget the CPF special I saw the post on the sample platings. Thanks


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## LEDagent (Dec 28, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*It looks like we will be sending out a limited number of LSs to back orders in less than a week's time. These are for orders that where placed the very day we opened the system (the 19th of Dec).

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh...it looks like i missed the ship. Darn. Oh well..i'll wait till February or so when things settle down a bit. I'll wait for the later runs so that the kinks can be worked out first. I just wish i could have gotten a first run with a SN number on it. But its cool. Keep up with the great work and the service you provide to your customers....

it looks like all that hard work is turning up more and more serious biz huh? Good for you!


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## SchneiderDriver (Dec 29, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Sometimes I think our lights are too expensive for the average Joe and then I get an email like this....

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [name omitted] [mailto:
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 2:57 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: brand new flashlights that don't work
> 
> 
> I just purchased 2 infrared flash lights. I put brand new 
> batteries and all 
> I get is a very very dimmed light on both flashlights. What's 
> wrong with 
> these lites?
> 

Hello. How are you observing the light output?

Peter Gransee

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [name omitted] [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:39 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: brand new flashlights that don't work
> 
> 
> I'm standing in the dark and it dosen't illuminate at all. If 
> you look real 
> close you see just a small red dot.
> 

You are using some sort of IR viewer correct? The human eye cannot detect IR wavelengths. The red cherry you are seeing is some of the shorter wavelengths spilling into the visible spectrum. This flashlight is designed for use with Night Vision equipment, IR cameras, IR sensors, etc. If you want a flashlight for direct viewing, I would recommend our visible colors, especially the white LED version.


Peter Gransee




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>







Well I don't feel quite as stupid as this guy..... Maybe I'm a slightly "above average Joe"! Here's my story about my mistaken purchase of an Arc AAA UV (posted earlier on another thread)....

When I was brand new to LED's (I'm still a newbie, this was less than 4 months ago ), I ordered an Arc AAA turquoise from brightguy.com. When I got it, it seemed really dim, and not really turquoise. More like a dim purple . Of course, you know where this is going! I had no idea. I was shining it right in my eyes, demonstrating to myself how incredibly dim it was. OR how incredibly dim I was! I emailed Brightguy, and they told me to send it back, and suggested a white LED. They were great, shipping the replacement out immediately. They had my credit card, of course, in case they hadn't received the first one back. Still, they provided great service. Once I got the white one, and saw just how bright it was, I got to thinking. I went to Arc's website and discovered the UV light.... along with the warning not to look at the light!! I emailed brightguy and told him what that must have been. He said he had looked at the light also. We will probably both die before we hit 100 now! Anyway, I now wish I had known what it was, and just kept it. I know they cost a lot more than the $21 or so that I had paid for it (having ordered the turquoise LED). 


Joe


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## supertrucker (Dec 30, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SchneiderDriver:
*





Well I don't feel quite as stupid as this guy..... Maybe I'm a slightly "above average Joe"! Here's my story about my mistaken purchase of an Arc AAA UV (posted earlier on another thread)....

When I was brand new to LED's (I'm still a newbie, this was less than 4 months ago ), I ordered an Arc AAA turquoise from brightguy.com. When I got it, it seemed really dim, and not really turquoise. More like a dim purple . Of course, you know where this is going! I had no idea. I was shining it right in my eyes, demonstrating to myself how incredibly dim it was. OR how incredibly dim I was! I emailed Brightguy, and they told me to send it back, and suggested a white LED. They were great, shipping the replacement out immediately. They had my credit card, of course, in case they hadn't received the first one back. Still, they provided great service. Once I got the white one, and saw just how bright it was, I got to thinking. I went to Arc's website and discovered the UV light.... along with the warning not to look at the light!! I emailed brightguy and told him what that must have been. He said he had looked at the light also. We will probably both die before we hit 100 now! Anyway, I now wish I had known what it was, and just kept it. I know they cost a lot more than the $21 or so that I had paid for it (having ordered the turquoise LED). 


Joe*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you shined it in my eye as well,Mr.joe.
I can't hardly wait for my Arc AAA LE, I keep stareing into my CMG infinity to pass the time...Hardly seeing any spots anymore.


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## SchneiderDriver (Dec 30, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by supertrucker:
* I can't hardly wait for my Arc AAA LE, I keep stareing into my CMG infinity to pass the time...Hardly seeing any spots anymore.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll translate here, I speak fluent Truckerese. I think you mean to say that "you CAN hardly wait for your LE".





Genesis 8:10
And he waited yet another seven days, and again he sent the dove out from the ark.

OK, different ark. And even if it was the same Arc, it doesn't really make sense. Short notice. It's late. Good night.

joe


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## Gransee (Dec 30, 2001)

Nice literary reference SchneiderDriver. Of course, when the Creator makes lights, they are more ingenious (stars to lightening bugs) than my best flashlights.

--
Still waiting on the 2AA packs before we can deliver the first LS shipment. I expect that this will be in the coming week in spite of the New Year's Day holiday.

In the month of January, I plan on wrapping up the following projects that have been delayed: first LS shipment, CPF edition finish test, extended runtime (XR) version test, retail packaging intro and the SHOT show prep.

--
Happy New Year Everyone!





For 2002, I endeavor to:

1. Improve the quality of each Arc product
2. Deliver on time
3. Tell more people about Arc 
4. Originate new flashlight/accessory designs

Peter Gransee


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## SchneiderDriver (Dec 30, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Nice literary reference SchneiderDriver. Of course, when the Creator makes lights, they are more ingenious (stars to lightening bugs) than my best flashlights.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point, Peter. Based on my limited experience with your products however (one AAA, and hoping to pick up a package at the PO tomorrow with 2 LE's from TTS, one for me and one for Supertrucker), I'd say that the Creator blessed you with some pretty good talent for light making.

BTW, off topic here, but for anyone who needs such a resource...... www.biblegateway.com is a cool place to find any Scripture, in many languages and many versions. I searched for "wait ark" when I found that verse I quoted above.

joe


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## Max (Dec 31, 2001)

I received my ARC LE last week, and I have been enjoying it. If I had more experience with white LEDs, I might not be asking this question. The LE is supposed to have less blue tint than a regular white ARC AAA, yet mine has a definite blue tinted spot in the center. I don't have another LE, or a regular AAA to compare to, but to you more experienced folks, does this sound typical or unusual?


----------



## Quickbeam (Dec 31, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...yet mine has a definite blue tinted spot in the center. I don't have another LE, or a regular AAA to compare to, but to you more experienced folks, does this sound typical or unusual?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds normal - mine's the same. Compared to all my other white LED lights, it's definately "greenish".


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 1, 2002)

What are the chances of an Arc Headlamp Peter? A multi-led LS which would be an ideal caving light!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 2, 2002)

Chances are that's a ways off, Melmso...

Peter definitely has his hands full at the moment.

Why not just mount an Arc Ls in one of those head band-thingies? Then you could remove it at will





Gotta give respect to Peter for his longsuffering commitment to the ideal personal light!! February works for me, sir.. and any subsequent timeline as well, assuming the LS meets your (and the CPF'ers) expectations. You da man!!!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 3, 2002)

Howdy Flashaholics. This is my first post in this thread and only my third so far, although I've been lurking and learning for a while now.

I just wanted to say that I just got my Arc AAA LE today and WOW!!! I own both red and yellow Infinity's and the Arc AAA LE is worlds apart. The yellow Infinity at it's best looks like my Mini-Mag with tired Rayovacs. The red one is fine for certain applications, but the Arc is fantastic! I purchased the red Infinity for my 18mo. old son to play with due to it's long battery life and robust design. When he saw the Arc he grabbed for it and wouldn't give it back. I kept trying to lure him back with the red Infinty but he decided to elude me under the kitchen table, Arc in tow. He obviously can tell the difference between the two lights. When I finally got it back I tucked it underneath my shirt and gave him the Infinty. He tossed the Infinity aside and clawed at my shirt to get the Arc back. I can't blame him I suppose. Like father like son. I think I may have to sleep with the Arc tonight just so it is here in the morning.





Max, mine has a bluish tint at the center fading to a greenish white. I believe what you are experiencing is normal.

Mr. Gransee...thank you. Thanks for creating a finely engineered and quality product that really delivers the goods. I am very impressed with the way you conduct your business (just finished reading all 34 pages of your thread...took me several days). Your integrity and good reputation are what gave me the confidence to drop nearly $40 on your product sight unseen.
I think an Arc LS may be in my future.

Sorry to be so wordy, but I do have a question. How does the brightness of the Luxeon Star compare to other incandescent lights such as the Surefire 6P or Streamlight Scorpion? I have seen the term lumens used in reference to these flashlights, candlepower used with others and MCD's used in reference to LED's. There seems to be no single standard to cross-compare them all to eachother. I understand that LED lights will usually not be as bright as incandescents all other factors being equal, but I was just curious how the LS will compare to something I am more familiar with as I am new to LED's and flashaholism in general.

Thanks for your patience with the newbie.


----------



## lightlover (Jan 3, 2002)

Just wanted to be the *500th !!* post in this topic.

lightlover











<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Hi! 
This is a general discussion thread for Arc Flashlights ... future products or any other question you would like to post to Arc ... Welcome! Peter Gransee

Legal Disclaimer: public domain, etc. etc.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The very first post, 08-29-2001 10:27 PM.


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 3, 2002)

I believe some ratings for the Luxeon were averaging 80,000 mcd depending on which battery was used in the ARC LS, according to my figures of a Nichia (the latest one) NSPW500BS of 6,400 mcd it would translate to about 12-14 of these Nichias in approximate luminosity. Now i own a Nightbuster 18X using 3D cells and is similar to the shape of a Maglite with about 50+ hours of battery life, now compare that to an ARC LS in a package MUCH smaller! If I was to take a 6V camping flourescant it would be about the same in lighting an area in my opinion but if you really want facts go check out the website at "The Punishment Zone" or go look into the many well laid out websites from members here that have dedicated a lot of time testing and evaluating different brands and current modifications.


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivebeans:
*I have seen the term lumens used in reference to these flashlights, candlepower used with others and MCD's used in reference to LED's. There seems to be no single standard to cross-compare them all to eachother.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A candlepower is another name for a candela.
1000mcd (millicandela) = 1 candela.

Lumens are used for spherical light sources
such as incandescent lamps. Since an LED
radiates in a conical shape (called a
"steradian") it is rated in candelas.

There are 4pi steradians in a sphere, so the
relationship between millicandela and lumens
is:

*(mcd / 1000) * 4 * pi = lumens*


----------



## Larry R. Pace (Jan 3, 2002)

Hey Daniel, how do you like the Nightblaster 18x, I have the 4x, what are the major differences in light?
I, too, have a ls on order and can't wait to get mine. It will be my personal hunting light!


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## sylvestor (Jan 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlueHaze:
*A candlepower is another name for a candela.
1000mcd (millicandela) = 1 candela.

Lumens are used for spherical light sources
such as incandescent lamps. Since an LED
radiates in a conical shape (called a
"steradian") it is rated in candelas.

There are 4pi steradians in a sphere, so the
relationship between millicandela and lumens
is:

(mcd / 1000) * 4 * pi = lumens*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Blue Haze,

I'm confused with your formula. I must be way off, but I thought the LS (white) was rated at 180,000mcd. The cyan was rated at 600,000mcd. So according to your formula, the white would be (180000/1000)*4*3.14 = ?? ( I won't put in the number cause it's got to be way off).

Please let me know what's wrong with my calculations.

sylvestor.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 3, 2002)

Reflex-

I figured it would be along time off for a headlamp. ANd yes I have been dreaming and anxiously waiting for an Arc LS 123 to attach to my helmet. It should do the trick nicely for most of the caves I do. 

Anath-

I'm from a little place up the road from you. (Just above that BIG place...Sydney) I got my Arc LE through Texas Tactical Supply and I must say- supurb service. It arrived here in 8 days. There are a few others from Oz in the forum that I can tell. Yclo...Steelwolf. Steelwolf I believe is happy with purchasing through Glowbug. ?!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sylvestor:
*but I thought the LS (white) was rated at 180,000mcd. The cyan was rated at 600,000mcd.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's nothing wrong with your numbers.
Those ratings are for the Luxeon Star/O (with collimating optics). They focus the beam
and measure the brightest spot to get the
numbers. That's why you're warned not to
look into the thing when it's on.


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## arab (Jan 3, 2002)

Anath said
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Has anybody here had an ARC-AAA delivered to Australia? I've been wanting to get one for a while, what's the best deal with shipping?
I don't suppose there's a local distributor yet..

thanks! 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've used TTS in the past to deliver to me in Dublin, Ireland and I must say the service was excellent. Shipping was just charged on at cost and unlike most others, TTS did not try to get your business with a low price (although their prices are low) and then claw it back with crazy shipping rates. Check them out at 


http://www1.ecxmall.com/stores/texastacticalsupply/Detail.bok?no=95


They are represented here with the member TTS. I would like to point out, I am in no way connected with TTS, I just find that good service is becoming ever rarer and therefore remarkable when it is encountered.


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 3, 2002)

Here here, I recently purchased a total of 7 Arc AA's for Christmas presents (I'm in line for an LS myself), all from Texas Tactical.

William provides excellent service, and is as honest as they come.


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## dan (Jan 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sylvestor:
*Hey Blue Haze,

but I thought the LS (white) was rated at 180,000mcd. The cyan was rated at 600,000mcd. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also think that the Arc LS is underdriven. The 180,000 rating is for max recommended voltage. Theoretically it means the Arc LS will last longer with less noticable decrease in brightness as is noted with leds driven at spec, or higher. Check out lumileds specification sheets.


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 3, 2002)

Here is a reply about the Nightbuster 8X and my thoughts on the 18X (3D),the 8X (3AA) is simply but strongly (tube wall must .250 thick!) made and it would be very difficult to replace the LEDs, I think the head is pressed on hydraulically I cannot turn it. I have one LED inoperable and I suspect it was from a new set of Duracell Ultras, its possible there is no resistance in the circuit wiring and the LEDs are overdriven, 3 Ultras have measured 4.9v on my DVOM. I do not think I may buy another at the current price of $49 from Glowbug. Now the 18X is a different breed of cat, it is similar to a 3D Maglite in size but no twist focusing. The LEDs are mounted in a star pattern on a circuit board disc, anothe disc with an insulated center post is the electrical connection to the bulb stem.All you need is a 90 deg med snap ring plier or spanner (two holes opposite) and it unscrews, there is a lot of room and space to work here for mods and such, I like it very much and use it at work. The beam is very well spread out even to the point it appears like a flourescent light, some blue with no rings or shadow at all. An excellant inspection, blueprint,map or hunting light. Its drawbacks is no spot for a distance. I am building a Maglite conversion that will use a Luxeon (from Peter) for distance, around 6-12 Nichias for closeup and a third position for auxilary color such as red, UV or even IR for night vision devices or covert uses. How to switch between circuits on a Maglite? My secret



but it does have to do with the reflector and the roller bearing on the bulb tube. now as far as the figure for a Luxeon exactly as what Peter is using for the LS I wonder if those figures are correct or I may be using the numbers for the Proffesional Series bulb from Ledcorp. I have ordered one at $34.95 plus shipping (43.95 total) and I am going to see if its the same light output as the Nightbuster 18X, if so then I will use these bulbs for my Maglight, I have also ordered some Luxeons from Peter and am going to mount one in a Maglite, its cheaper at $14 for Peters Luxeons than the PR based one from Ledcorp. And that is what the Ledcorp bulb is supposed to be, A luxeon in a finned brass PR base. But back again to the Nightbuster, its overpriced but excellantly built unlike the 8X witch has been troublesome.


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## Carpe Diem (Jan 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
*Texas Tactical.

William provides excellent service, and is as honest as they come.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 3, 2002)

Daniel Ramsey and Blue Haze - Thanks for helping me to better understand the brightness rating of flashlights. As I understand it, the standard white Arc AAA @ 5600mcd = 5.6 candelas? Or 5.6 candlepower?
Sorry, I'm not so hot at formulas.

Thanks Again,


----------



## Anath (Jan 4, 2002)

Has anybody here had an ARC-AAA delivered to Australia? I've been wanting to get one for a while, what's the best deal with shipping?

I don't suppose there's a local distributor yet..

thanks!


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivebeans:
*the standard white Arc AAA @ 5600mcd = 5.6 candelas? Or 5.6 candlepower?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's correct.


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## Larry R. Pace (Jan 4, 2002)

Daniel...thanks for very much for the info. on the Nightblaster. Now, I think I will purchase the 18x. Please recommend to me a quality digital volt meter. Thanks!!


----------



## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 4, 2002)

I use a Fluke at work and they are top of the line but a Sears or Radio Shack will work fine for general purposes unless you are into logic functions (as yet for me to explore)also most have a "hold" feature that will capture your reading and display it after you make a test probe. As far as the Nightbuster 18X, if you want to spend $129 plus shipping thats up to you but if the Luxeon Star is all that its supposed to be then thats the wave to surf on in the near future, not multiple LEDs. Call it after you build one, an Ultra Illumnator, a Darkness Dominator,a Shadow Slayer or whatever you want to call it but I thought these up first!


----------



## Larry R. Pace (Jan 5, 2002)

Daniel.....again, thanks!! I do appreciate the advice.


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## aso (Jan 6, 2002)

Peter


Did any LS colors ship this week?


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 6, 2002)

Peter, have you ever considered using a colored Luxeon (red and amber)in say an 1157 or 1156 automotive base with just a simple step down regulated Vf for 12-14V system? I have yet to get mine I ordered from you and I placed an additional 10 more from Future Electronics as I really want to see this application get past R&D and into production. Currently it takes 25+ LEDs for a stop/running light or 6 for a side marker like on tractor/trailers. What do you think? The Luxeon has more possibilities than just a flashlight.


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## Gransee (Jan 7, 2002)

No, they still aren't centering to my satisfaction. We have a new solution in the works so for now we shipped the white only. If anyone has a order with color and white and would like to change it, they can send me an email at [email protected]

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 7, 2002)

Greetings Mr. Gransee, 

I just wanted to add my voice to the many others commending you on your fine products. The first time I ever laid eyes on an LED flashlight, I knew I had to have one, but I had 3 reservations: 1.I knew they could be smaller 2.I knew they could be made using common/cheap batteries instead of proprietary lithiums 3.I didn't like the bluish tint in the white beam. As a medical professional I need a light that provides close to true color representation. If I come across an unconscious person at night, I don't want to have to sit there and figure out if they are really blue due to trouble breathing or if it’s a normally colored person whose skin tones are distorted by my flashlight. 

I told myself that when I found a light that solved problems #1 and #2 I would buy. I was pleasantly surprised to find the ARC AAA LE. It solved all 3 problems, and was built like a tank and waterproof to boot. It’s just an amazingly well engineered product. 

Looking back on this thread, you mentioned on November 23 that a dimmer/extended-runtime version of the Arc AAA was in testing with a projected runtime of 15hrs. You said you'd post the results in a couple weeks, but apparently never did. You said you had a potential customer who might want to buy a couple hundred. 

Anyway, I would be very interested in also buying an extended runtime version of your light. Believe it or not the ARC AAA produces more light than I need for many occasions, and more battery time is always convenient and nice on the wallet. As a former soldier, I can tell you that such a light would be a big hit with the military crowd. A colored version would fill the same niche as the CMG Infinity, except yours would be TRUE keychain sized vs. their pseudo-keychain oddball sized light. As a private pilot, I can tell you that the dimmer extended runtime version would be appealing to other pilots for the exact same reason. 

One final thought: The ARC AAA LE has the S brightness and B1 tint. Does Nichia offer white LEDs with average brightness (less than S) but with the B1 tint? You might find a nice market niche if you stuck these in some of your regular AAA flashlights for the reasons I mentioned above about color reproduction. 

Anyway, thanks again for your products. And thanks for finding such a nice forum to interface with end-users. You will go far in the business world. 

Ben Udall


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Max:
*I received my ARC LE last week, and I have been enjoying it. If I had more experience with white LEDs, I might not be asking this question. The LE is supposed to have less blue tint than a regular white ARC AAA, yet mine has a definite blue tinted spot in the center*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This isn't at all unusual. 

All currently produced white LEDs (as of early 2002) are really blue LEDs in sheep's clothing. A yellowish phosphor (a chemical that emits light when struck with shorter wavelength light) covers the blue LED chip.
When the blue LED comes on, the phosphor absorbs some of the blue light and converts it into a broadband yellow color; the remaining blue light from the LED passes through and the two color bands mix to create a phoney, synthetic "white" light.

Because a fair amount of blue light from the LED chip escapes unchanged, you'll find that almost all white LEDs have a peak or "hump" in the blue part of their spectrum, and many will produce a visible bluish tinted area surrounded by some shade of white.

As of the present time, there is no known way to create a true white LED using a single chip and no phosphor. So we have to cheat.

Some companies are working on creating white LEDs using violet and near-UV chips; once perfected and out of the laboratory, this will allow for white LEDs without a hint of extra blue in them. The most likely candidate for a phosphor mixture to use in this LED would be a variation of one of the "tricolor" mixtures currently used in compact fluorescent light bulbs. This is still only an imitation of white (it is made of three bands of color; red-orange, green, and blue), but it should be a better imitation than the current white LEDs produce. I don't expect this type of LED to be in the public's hands for at least two more years; possibly more.


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 7, 2002)

[No message]


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## Gransee (Jan 7, 2002)

Update:

Well, as you probably guessed, we shipped some LSs last week. Just so you know, this was a very small quantity. It will take us several runs to get the rejects down and the yields up.

I didn't want to make too big of a deal about it since most of you are still waiting. 

Today we received more lenses and immediately started the second LS production. We are labeling these first run units as well because the design hasn't changed much. They also have serial numbers. 

One of the first design changes we are making will be included in this run. We will increase the ID of the retainer slightly so the 123 packs startup easier. 

This run is projected to be ready in February. It should be larger than the first run because of increased yields.

Today we also finished the Arc-AAA retail packaging. Yeah! Very exciting (at least from my perspective). You should see this new look trickling into inventory over the next couple of months.

Peter Gransee


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## CyberPMG (Jan 9, 2002)

Peter, you've done it again!!!

Wow! I can't believe what I saw sitting on my front door tonight. I'm the proud owner of the Arc-LS kit #26!




Again, quality and craftsmanship are second to none. I've tried out the 1 and 2 AA battery compartments. They're terrific. Brilliant light output. I'll have to get a battery to test out the 123 compartment.

One thing I have noticed was the texture of the knurling on the compartments and the lens housing "feels" a lot smoother than what I have on both my Arc-AAA and my Arc-AAA LE, but it still helps to provide plenty of grip.





Hats off to you Peter for delivering another top-rate product! I'm sure that those who will receive the second run (and more in the future) will be as impressed as I am (if not more!)





Paul


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## Gransee (Jan 9, 2002)

Thanks Paul! I just got your email. Thanks so much for telling me about how much fun the light is for you.

Just so you know, it is you guys that inspired us to build the LS in the first place. So it is only fitting that you should enjoy the fruits of both of our's effort. 






Peter Gransee

Btw, as several have said, this thread is getting kind of long (over 500 posts). I will start another thread. Please join me over there!


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## sunspot (Jan 10, 2002)

Peter. What do you do with the reject heads that still have a light output? I have some thoughts running around the old cranium.


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## Gransee (Jan 10, 2002)

Reject LS illuminators? We don't have any. We test the parts before we seal them together to make sure they will pass. We can actually assemble all the pieces without having to lock them together.

See you in the new thread...

Peter Gransee


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## Brock (Jan 10, 2002)

We are finally closing thread and moving over to Arc Flashlights 2002

See you all over there


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