# Multi-level driver for SSC P7 under $8 ?



## NetKidz (Mar 19, 2008)

After I connected two ordinary 4x AMC7135 boards, I just thought this cheap board may also be able to connect to a multi-level driver to provide the current P7 needs.

The multi-driver used is DX SKU.6190 5-mode or DX SKU.7612 16-mode Driver connect with DX SKU.1886 4x AMC7135 board

Here's the connection chart:






I didn't know how the MCU works, but I think it use PWM to drive AMC7135's VDD pin. Thus just connect many AMC7135s VDD together and they'll provide enough current to drive P7. 

From SilverFox's NiMH test, eneloop should be able to keep above 1.1v under 3A load. 4x eneloop should keep AMC7135 stay regulation. I'm waiting my other P7 and DHS heatsink. I haven't tried it yet, but I think it should be fine. Any suggestion?

Thanks.


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## StefanFS (Mar 20, 2008)

How did you connect the two ordinary 4 x AMC7135 drivers? Just in parallell? How did it work out?
I have burned some drivers experimenting with my P7. 

Stefan


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## NetKidz (Mar 20, 2008)

Hi Stefan,

Yes, just in parallel. Here's the wire diagram:





On DHS heatsink:





Haven't finished the whole mod yet. Tested with 4x eneloop and the current is about 2.5A.


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## StefanFS (Mar 20, 2008)

Looks good. I also tried that. Might still use it in a coming mod. Right now I get ~2.6-2.7A with direct driving on three NiMH cells. Works really well, but 2.5A might be better since it will run cooler.
Stefan


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## rizky_p (Mar 20, 2008)

@NetKidz Can you post a pics showing P7 on top of DHS heatsink? 

Isnt that Dean connector is abit overkill?  JST-XH is enough IMO.

Really nice on the driver, cheap alternative...


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## NetKidz (Mar 21, 2008)

@StefanFS

I like regulation, so I decided to use 4x NiMH with AMC7135 instead of DD.  But 2.5A is still hot.


@rizky_p

Yup, it's overkill. But I only have it laying around. :green:

Here's P7 on DHS heatsink:





I sand of the centering ridges. I only have a small model drill and couldn't drill through the pedestal like Mac's Seoul P7 Mag. Due to the distance of the wires, I must enlarge the reflector hole a lot. :sick2:


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## zelda (Mar 21, 2008)

What type of thermal compound do you use for the drivers?

Zelda


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## NetKidz (Mar 21, 2008)

Hi zelda,

Arctic Alumina Thermal Adhesive.


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## zelda (Mar 21, 2008)

Thank you,

zelda


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## DaFABRICATA (Mar 21, 2008)

I suggest a Uni-Bit for drilling very nice holes and for opening up holes on reflectors. It works great and leaves a nice finish.


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## Mel_PL (Mar 21, 2008)

NetKidz said:


> Here's the connection chart:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It works!

-- M.


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## MatajumotorS (Mar 21, 2008)

NetKidz said:


> After I connected two ordinary 4x AMC7135 boards, I just thought this cheap board may also be able to connect to a multi-level driver to provide the current P7 needs.
> 
> The multi-driver used is DX SKU.6190 5-mode or DX SKU.7612 16-mode Driver connect with DX SKU.1886 4x AMC7135 board
> 
> ...


 
:twothumbs Nice Job! 

p.s. If you are familiar with programming, you could make controller switch one, 2 ,3 and all AMC at a time, to raise effeciency at low levels


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## rizky_p (Mar 29, 2008)

Nice thanks.



NetKidz said:


> @StefanFS
> 
> I like regulation, so I decided to use 4x NiMH with AMC7135 instead of DD.  But 2.5A is still hot.
> 
> ...


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## fxstsb (Apr 7, 2008)

NetKidz said:


> After I connected two ordinary 4x AMC7135 boards, I just thought this cheap board may also be able to connect to a multi-level driver to provide the current P7 needs.
> 
> The multi-driver used is DX SKU.6190 5-mode or DX SKU.7612 16-mode Driver connect with DX SKU.1886 4x AMC7135 board
> 
> ...


What I can imagine is a 3 mode in a 4 C cell Maglite. 3 18650's fit in perfectly. So that is roughly 12 v @2.5 amp. I can imagine mode one- 2.5 amp, mode 2 -1.25 amp, and mode 3- .625 amp.


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## smopoim86 (Apr 12, 2008)

Would it be possible to use one of those multimode drivers and one of these https://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=4338 instead of 2 of the others. If i understand correctly, the 8x is the same board, only stacked and bridged, correct?


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## TorchBoy (Apr 12, 2008)

I don't see why not, as long as the right connections are made between the boards.


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## Norm (Apr 14, 2008)

NetKidz any chance of buying 2 X DX SKU.1886 4x AMC7135 board boards from you? I don't really want to buy ten.
Thanks Norm


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## Tidra (Apr 15, 2008)

Call me stupid, but I can't get any regulation when wire together two of those drivers.

If I wire them together like showed in this post I got only 1.4A like from 4xAMC7135...

If I just take a part (-) wire for the LED, then both drivers work like it supposed to, one with regulation modes up to 1A and another almost 1.4A, but together only 1.4A and no regulation,…

What am I doing wrong???

I removed diodes and wire jumper,...

Thank you
Iztok


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## StefanFS (Apr 15, 2008)

Tidra said:


> Call me stupid, but I can't get any regulation when wire together two of those drivers.
> 
> If I wire them together like showed in this post I got only 1.4A like from 4xAMC7135...
> 
> ...


 
I think a picture of it might help to identify what might have gone wrong.
Stefan


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## smopoim86 (Apr 15, 2008)

Norm said:


> NetKidz any chance of buying 2 X DX SKU.1886 4x AMC7135 board boards from you? I don't really want to buy ten.
> Thanks Norm



The p7 driver on KD is just two of them sandwiched in parallel.


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## NetKidz (Apr 15, 2008)

Hi Tidra,

What batteries did you use?

Thanks.


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## Tidra (Apr 16, 2008)

This is the two of them wired together,...





RED wire= + for Vin and LED
BLACK wire= - for Vin
2x YELLOW wires= - for LED
1x YELLOW wire= - for second driver
WHITE wire= + control for second driver

This way I only got 1.4A OUT what is equal to 4xAMC7135 and no regulation.
If I separate two yellow wires, then both drivers works correctly, one with multi level’s up to 1A and another with 1.4A, but together no regulation and only 1.4A

For testing I don't use battery but DC Power Supply capable of 0-30v/5A, so this should not be a problem.

One more thing, multi level driver is from KAI and 4xAMC7135 is from DX is there an option that the multi level driver from KAI is different than from DX???

Thank you
Iztok


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## TorchBoy (Apr 16, 2008)

Tidra, did you need to make solder bridges on the 4 x AMC7135 board, to enable the extra three chips? As they used to come they only had one functioning.


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## StefanFS (Apr 17, 2008)

Iztok,

I do it like this:







I solder battery + to the + pad on the underside of the multimode driver and battery - to the ring on the multimode. My MM drivers are also from KaiD. I've done four so far and all work as they should. Do you get 1.4A from the 4xAMC7135 driver and you haven't soldered contact bridges on it? Maybe that's not necessary anymore.
Stefan


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## Tidra (Apr 17, 2008)

It's ALIVE,… 

I took two other drivers one with multi level control and one with 4x AMC71335, but this time I didn't remove any diodes and two of them join forces and give me 2.4A @ minimum 4V, when voltage drops below the high output current drops too. So I guess the full 2.4A on output will be first few seconds on one D Li-Ion, but on 3x NiMh would be more, because nominal voltage on fully charged NiMh’s is higher.

Cheers,
Iztok


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## Cmd_Bash (Apr 18, 2008)

just out of curiousity, do any of you guys know what your doing?

i'm taking electrical engineering, and thought i might built a high ampere voltage booster from scratch for the p7 to a) test what i've learned b) make a single wafer voltage booster for p7 and beyond and c) have somthing to show come graduation.

anyways, i've been reading over what eveyone is saying it sounds like most of you are useing a trial and error approch. 

so back to my previous question. do any of you have any knowlege of what your doing? either self taught or institutional, or are learning from trial and error?

i'm not trying to be rude, just inquisitive.


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## linterno (Apr 18, 2008)

Cmd_Bash said:


> anyways, i've been reading over what eveyone is saying it sounds like most of you are useing a trial and error approch.


 I guess this is not a trial and error approach. This is I don't know where to solder the cables and I am doing it wrong. Since there is not an inexpensive available driver specifically designed for SSC P7 LED then people is trying to use what is currently available to create a franken-driver.

Juan C.


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## smopoim86 (Apr 27, 2008)

I'm thinking about doing this, but adding a 350ma AMC7135 so that I will get 2.85A at high. 

I just wish my parts from dx would show up (so impatient).


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## Norm (Apr 30, 2008)

NetKidz said:


> Haven't finished the whole mod yet. Tested with 4x eneloop and the current is about 2.5A.


Hi Stephan have you measured the current to the LED? I built this up and I get around 2.5 to the board just wonder what the LED sees. I'm guessing about 2A.
Norm


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## rizky_p (May 6, 2008)

I had to use 5 Sanyo 2700 to get Full 2.8A(maybe the batteries?) Battery draws = current to LED right? since this is DD. I did not removed the diodes or should i? what is the difference?

Thanks.


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## TorchBoy (May 6, 2008)

rizky_p said:


> I had to use 5 Sanyo 2700 to get Full 2.8A(maybe the batteries?) Battery draws = current to LED right? since this is DD. I did not removed the diodes or should i? what is the difference?


The diodes provide polarity protection, and extend the upper voltage limit by about 0.6V - something you sound like you need. Removing them only makes a difference to the LED operation if your LED Vf is very low, like under 3.3V, which doesn't apply to the P7 with even just one AMC7135, let alone 8 of them. So leaving them on is good.


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## rizky_p (May 7, 2008)

TorchBoy said:


> The diodes provide polarity protection, and extend the upper voltage limit by about 0.6V - something you sound like you need. Removing them only makes a difference to the LED operation if your LED Vf is very low, like under 3.3V, which doesn't apply to the P7 with even just one AMC7135, let alone 8 of them. So leaving them on is good.



I am using CSWOJ P7 which means [email protected] + 0.6v(diode) = 4.35v

is it means to stay regulated i need to have voltage above 4.35v?

Thanks.


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## TorchBoy (May 7, 2008)

rizky_p said:


> I am using CSWOJ P7 which means [email protected] + 0.6v(diode) = 4.35v
> 
> is it means to stay regulated i need to have voltage above 4.35v?


No, that diode is only on the chip enable (Vdd) pin, which needs at least 2.7V to run, or 3.3V minimum with the diode there. Some of my low Vf Cree XR-Es need it taken off, especially if I'm only using one AMC7135 to drive them, but the Seoul P7 is well above that.

At the top end, the Vdd pin will accept 7V at absolute maximum (although the AMC7135 will get too hot before that), but the diode means you could in theory have 7.6V.

On the LED side, the AMC7135 has a minimum 0.12V drop across it when in regulation, which means you need at least 3.75V + 0.12V = 3.87V to stay in regulation.


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## rizky_p (May 7, 2008)

TorchBoy said:


> No, that diode is only on the chip enable (Vdd) pin, which needs at least 2.7V to run, or 3.3V minimum with the diode there. Some of my low Vf Cree XR-Es need it taken off, especially if I'm only using one AMC7135 to drive them, but the Seoul P7 is well above that.
> 
> At the top end, the Vdd pin will accept 7V at absolute maximum (although the AMC7135 will get too hot before that), but the diode means you could in theory have 7.6V.
> 
> On the LED side, the AMC7135 has a minimum 0.12V drop across it when in regulation, which means you need at least 3.75V + 0.12V = 3.87V to stay in regulation.



Relly Nice, thanks for the explenation.

I build my SSC Mag using KD 8x7135 driver(no modes), so i added SKU 6190(7135 5 modes) to the KD's driver. I removes all 3 7135 existing on SKU 6190 driver because i dont want 11x7135 chip driving huge current and possibly destroys the P7. So i just wired up the chip output directly to KDs 8x7135 part that PWM the 7135. And it work 2.5A/0.8A/0.48A(H/M/L) and 5 modes. Now why only 2.5A?? i am using 5 Sanyo 2700. definately hears that typical high pitch noise when on med and low. thanks.


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## TorchBoy (May 7, 2008)

rizky_p said:


> Now why only 2.5A??:confused


Split 8 ways, that's 312.5 mA per AMC7135, which is within the working limits of those things (300 to 380 mA).


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## rizky_p (May 8, 2008)

TorchBoy said:


> Split 8 ways, that's 312.5 mA per AMC7135, which is within the working limits of those things (300 to 380 mA).




I fully charged the battery, now it pushes 2.8A/1A/*edited* 0.5(was 5A) to the LED -nice. I am sure even with a slightly discharged 5 AAs 2.8A should an easy job.

Do you think adding 1 more 7135 will do any good when the battery get weaker?


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## TorchBoy (May 8, 2008)

rizky_p said:


> I am sure with a slightly discharged 5 AAs 2.8A.


How discharged was the battery when you were getting 2.5A? What was the battery voltage under load?

It might also pay to make sure all your connections are really good.


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## rizky_p (May 8, 2008)

TorchBoy said:


> How discharged was the battery when you were getting 2.5A? What was the battery voltage under load?
> 
> It might also pay to make sure all your connections are really good.



I am using KD's adapter, it might couse the high resistance in the setup.


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## freedom2000 (May 25, 2008)

Norm said:


> NetKidz any chance of buying 2 X DX SKU.1886 4x AMC7135 board boards from you? I don't really want to buy ten.
> Thanks Norm



+1 Norm

Same thing for me... If somebody would have 1 to share, I would be glad to buy it 

JP


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## freedom2000 (May 25, 2008)

rizky_p said:


> Do you think adding 1 more 7135 will do any good when the battery get weaker?



No I don't think so...
when Vbat < Vf + 0.6V the driver is out regulation and switches in direct drive mode ; but with a 0.6V drop out added ...

JP


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## TorchBoy (May 25, 2008)

freedom2000 said:


> when Vbat < Vf + 0.6V the driver is out regulation and switches in direct drive mode ; but with a 0.6V drop out added ...


For normal Vf LEDs the out-of-regulation condition is Vbat < Vf + 0.12V. For low Vf LEDs there's an extra condition if the AMC7135 Vdd pin is fed through a diode, which is Vf < 3.3V, or the 2.7V needed by the AMC7135 to stay in regulation plus the 0.6V for the diode. The P7 doesn't meet that condition.

(And remember that the Vf is question is the Vf needed at the current for all the AMC7135s being used at that particular moment, not the LED's Vf at 330-350 mA for a single AMC7135.)

Are you thinking of switching in an extra AMC7135 when they fall out of regulation or having it there the whole time?


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## freedom2000 (May 26, 2008)

TorchBoy said:


> Are you thinking of switching in an extra AMC7135 when they fall out of regulation or having it there the whole time?



Correct me if I am wrong, but switching in an extra AMC when they fall out of regulation will not solve any problem... you will still be in "direct drive" mode... no more juice from the battery !

BTW I did a mistake *the drop out of the AMC7135 is 0.12V *and not 0.6V as stated in my previous message...

JP


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## TorchBoy (May 26, 2008)

freedom2000 said:


> no more juice from the battery !


It should give slightly more juice, but after they all drop out of regulation it would be like trying to sweep water uphill. You'd be using a slightly bigger broom but you'd still be fighting a losing battle.


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## X_Marine (Jun 2, 2008)

Cmd_Bash said:


> just out of curiousity, do any of you guys know what your doing?
> 
> i'm taking electrical engineering, and thought i might built a high ampere voltage booster from scratch for the p7 to a) test what i've learned b) make a single wafer voltage booster for p7 and beyond and c) have somthing to show come graduation.
> 
> ...


I think that would be a great idea and of course you can always run it by your instructor for opinions and possible improvements.
Why not put a schematic together and let us see what you come up with. There are some pretty good circuits already on the forums if you do some searching.

Best with your class 
X/BillyD..


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## rizky_p (Jun 3, 2008)

is it possible to build 3 seperate boost driver in 1 board? and run them in paralel to achieve 3A output?


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## TorchBoy (Jun 3, 2008)

rizky_p said:


> is it possible to build 3 seperate boost driver in 1 board? and run them in paralel to achieve 3A output?


I don't see why not. Your board might end up three times the normal size though.


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## rizky_p (Jun 4, 2008)

TorchBoy said:


> I don't see why not. Your board might end up three times the normal size though.



any problem when combining boost driver output?


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## darkzero (Jun 4, 2008)

rizky_p said:


> is it possible to build 3 seperate boost driver in 1 board? and run them in paralel to achieve 3A output?


 
Yes possible. Except for having it all on one PCB that's pretty much what I did here. That was expensive!


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## rizky_p (Jun 4, 2008)

darkzero said:


> Yes possible. Except for having it all on one PCB that's pretty much what I did here. That was expensive!



that is one expensive solution 

Is it possible to run GD3000 with 2xD NiMh cells?

thanks.


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## Changchung (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi there, I am a little confused, in the first pic you show, the controller and the driver, but in the second one you show to drivers with 8 AMC7135 total, if I add this 8 to the 3 AMC7135 wich is in the driver we have 11 AMC7135 total, I am correct??? Or I need just 7 AMC7135? 4 wich is in circuit board and 3 in the controller or driver???

I have everything now to make the mod, I just want to be sure before I started...


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## kanarie (Oct 17, 2008)

If I want to use two of these multi mode drivers were do I bypass the mode IC on the second board


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## StefanFS (Oct 19, 2008)

kanarie said:


> If I want to use two of these multi mode drivers were do I bypass the mode IC on the second board


 
Like this, you really need to remove the IC for it to work: 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2612230&postcount=94


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## Kihlstrand (Nov 9, 2008)

Nice thread everyone. I will use these drivers in my MAG P7 mod.

Regards
Johan Kihlstrand


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## Kihlstrand (Nov 11, 2008)

By the way. How much voltage do you feed these PCB:s with? Is a single lithium 3.7v battery enough? or will it need more juice to produce 2.4mA? 

Regards
Johan


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## javiole (Dec 5, 2008)

cheap and it works great!!! cheers


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## bbgobie (Dec 6, 2008)

When using this method, how do the modes work?
Is it 100%/35%.... etc of the total AMC7135 output?
Or is it 100%/35%.... etc of the output of the controller board + 100% of the 2nd board?

Also any reason this wouldn't work with Downloads multi led 7135 setup?
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201392

I'm thinking MCE 2S2P setup, 1400mA output and 2x 18650s for a simple efficient setup.

Thanks!


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## VidPro (Dec 6, 2008)

Kihlstrand said:


> By the way. How much voltage do you feed these PCB:s with? Is a single lithium 3.7v battery enough? or will it need more juice to produce 2.4mA?
> 
> Regards
> Johan


 
the ones with that particular chip in them, current regulate by clipping and wasting the voltage that goes over what is needed to make it to the current (to drive the led) .
so say your LED Voltage (Vf) is at 3.7 (at the current) and your battery is at 4.0v these things will just burn up the extra power (so to speak) and keep the voltage right for the ammount of current.

so say your battery is at 3.5V , your led will be at or below that (due to the slight resistance of the curcuit) which means it will fall out of regulation, and Basically be Direct drive.

so its all about the voltage of your battery and the voltage your led runs at (when at that current).
when the battery is Above the LED voltage , it will clip it off to maintain the current , if its below that voltage it will do NOTHING but sit there basically 

So in short, it is Resistance when the battery voltage is too high.

on MOST white led stuff this will mean when your battery is fully charged the LED will be at its full current, and as soon as the battery goes below about 3.6-3.9 the output will start to dwindle.

its a good "answer" to direct driving, without breaking something, but it will NOT boost the voltage when the battery goes to low.

so its all about the VOLTAGE of your LED at that amperage, and the battery voltage at that load. 

because the 1xli-ion or 3xNimhy or 3xalkaline or 3x1.7v lithium is very CLOSE to the voltage of the leds were using, it clips great for those items.

and it will still clip well for 4x1.5v too, wasting a bit more, but staying in "regulation" longer.

but NOT for batteries over ~5.5volts (under load), because then it has to waste to much juice resisting, and the part will heat up.

it was best said once by a member here, its a Glorified resister  , it acts as needed ONLY when the voltage is TO HIGH for the LED (at that current level)


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## JimZinVT (Dec 25, 2008)

Could this combo of driver boards be made to run at ~1400mA? Remove some IC chips from one board or the other? Thanks.

JZ


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## NetKidz (Dec 25, 2008)

JimZinVT said:


> Could this combo of driver boards be made to run at ~1400mA? Remove some IC chips from one board or the other? Thanks.
> 
> JZ


 
Yes. 

But there're already 4x7135 boards and will push about 1.2~1.4A. 







PS. There's also 8x7135 in one 17mm board (double sided). I've asked DX to source it. Let's wait and see. :devil:


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## kwarwick (Dec 26, 2008)

NetKidz said:


> Yes.
> 
> But there're already 4x7135 boards and will push about 1.2~1.4A.



I've been looking for a 4 x AMC7135 board with modes like the 16 mode 3x AMC7135 boards, but haven't found any. Would you be so kind as to tell if that one has similar modes and where you found it? 

Karl


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## NetKidz (Dec 31, 2008)

kwarwick said:


> I've been looking for a 4 x AMC7135 board with modes like the 16 mode 3x AMC7135 boards, but haven't found any. Would you be so kind as to tell if that one has similar modes and where you found it?
> 
> Karl


 
I asked my friend to buy them in China for me. But DX/KD also have similar drivers. (They're the same maker, ldch)

DX: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7879
It's 20 modes and 3x 7135 soldered but you could just solder another 7135 to make it a 4x 7135 board.

KD: http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=6237
The title say 3 but pictures show 4x 7135. :thinking:

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=1696
http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=1694
No pictures. I bought several 4x 7135 boards long time before they changed their web. I'm not very sure those are the 4x 7135 I bought.


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## CBR-runner (Mar 28, 2009)

How is this setup working? Do the drivers burnup?

Thinking about one of these setups for a P7 mag-lite :wave:


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## vestureofblood (Apr 6, 2009)

NetKidz said:


> Hi Stefan,
> 
> Yes, just in parallel. Here's the wire diagram:


 
HI Netkidz,

I have a few of these drivers I have bee working with, but I am still a bit unclear on a couple of things.

From what I understand about these drivers they will limit the vf to a round 3.8 ish or so, and can have up to about 6 votls driving them. If I am running a pair of them wired in parallel as shown to get the 2.5 amps off of 4 or 5 nimh cells, how is it that I get double the amp, but not double the voltage? Or at least voltage = to cells 4.8-6 V?



VidPro said:


> the ones with that particular chip in them, current regulate by clipping and wasting the voltage that goes over what is needed to make it to the current (to drive the led) .
> so say your LED Voltage (Vf) is at 3.7 (at the current) and your battery is at 4.0v these things will just burn up the extra power (so to speak) and keep the voltage right for the amount of current.
> 
> and it will still clip well for 4x1.5v too, wasting a bit more, but staying in "regulation" longer.
> ...


 
So since the extra voltage is "clipped" will adding additional cells give longer run time, or only increase the time the voltage/amperage stays regulated?

Somthing else I would like to know if someone doesnt mind explaining, in this pic.


NetKidz said:


> The multi-driver used is DX SKU.6190 5-mode or DX SKU.7612 16-mode Driver connect with DX SKU.1886 4x AMC7135 board
> 
> Here's the connection chart:


 
Rather than "just copying" this I would prefer to understand what is taking place here. I am considering a similar senario, but with a different multilevel driver. 

I get the batt- goes in parallel to both boards, and Led - I am guessing is connected to both boards as it normally would. Led/battery pos connect to only the multilevel in its normal position. But what is the wire in the middle running from the LED + on the amc 1400 board connecting to on the multi level board?


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## vestureofblood (Apr 6, 2009)




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## CBR-runner (Apr 7, 2009)

:candle:


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## StefanFS (Apr 8, 2009)

vestureofblood,

They limit output voltage to ~3.7-3.8V. It's a sort of buck driver, the chips on it are supposed to work between 2.7-6V. Efficiency is best if supply voltage is kept below 4.5V with emitters that have forward voltages around 3.5V. It dumps excess voltage as heat so if you use close to 6V you need to use a heatsink.

There are a wealth of info in several threads regarding AMC7135 chips.

It's all about adding more AMC7135 chips to the circuit. The connections just connect the pins (on the AMC7135 chips) on the extra board to the corresponding ones on the one with the PIC and the connections to the led. So it becomes seven AMC7135 giving 7 x 350mA instead of 3 x 350mA.

If you follow the traces on the boards you see that the pins on the AMC chips are all connected to each other. The back pin is ground, the pin going to + on the extra board is VDD and that connects to VDD on the first board and so on.

http://www.addmtek.com/Datasheet/DD031-AMC7135_D.pdf


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## NetKidz (Apr 8, 2009)

CBR-runner said:


> How is this setup working? Do the drivers burnup?
> 
> Thinking about one of these setups for a P7 mag-lite :wave:



StefanFS wrote a great tutorial at: Maglite SSC P7. How to. A sort of guide. :thumbsup:

BTW, there's already a 8x7135 multi-mode board, I posted in this thread at #59.


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## NetKidz (Apr 8, 2009)

vestureofblood said:


> HI Netkidz,
> 
> I have a few of these drivers I have bee working with, but I am still a bit unclear on a couple of things.
> 
> From what I understand about these drivers they will limit the vf to a round 3.8 ish or so, and can have up to about 6 votls driving them. If I am running a pair of them wired in parallel as shown to get the 2.5 amps off of 4 or 5 nimh cells, how is it that I get double the amp, but not double the voltage? Or at least voltage = to cells 4.8-6 V?


AMC7135 is a linear regulator. You could think it as a smart resistor that will change it's resistance depend on the Vf of the LED. It's not limited to a specified voltage. It will cut the voltage to a value slightly above the LED Vf to keep the current around 350mA. 



> So since the extra voltage is "clipped" will adding additional cells give longer run time, or only increase the time the voltage/amperage stays regulated?


Additional cells won't give longer run time. AMC7135 will stay regulated if the input voltage is about 0.15v greater than the LED Vf. It'll stay regulated longer but it'll also generate more heat to cut the excess voltage.



> I get the batt- goes in parallel to both boards, and Led - I am guessing is connected to both boards as it normally would. Led/battery pos connect to only the multilevel in its normal position. But what is the wire in the middle running from the LED + on the amc 1400 board connecting to on the multi level board?


You must supply power to AMC7135's VDD pin to "enable" it. The wire to the multi-mode board is connected to the MCU's PWM output. It'll switch on/off the AMC7135 to adjust the levels.


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## vestureofblood (Apr 8, 2009)

NetKidz said:


> You must supply power to AMC7135's VDD pin to "enable" it. The wire to the multi-mode board is connected to the MCU's PWM output. It'll switch on/off the AMC7135 to adjust the levels.


 
Hi NetKidz,

Lets see if I understand this correctly. By wiring the multilevel board as shown, when dimming the multilevel driver it will cut back both its own out put as well as the output of the AMC board?

If possible could you exlain a little bit about what MCU and PWM are? How could I recognize them on another similar driver?

Thank you for your help.


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## mpk (Apr 10, 2009)

vestureofblood said:


> If possible could you exlain a little bit about what MCU and PWM are?



A MCU is a microcontroller, basically a system on a chip. You can write software on your Linux, Unix, or Windows machine and download it into the MCU. My current favorite is the Texas Instruments MSP430. For only $20, you can get a development system made up of a usb programmer and a small detachable board that has the MCU. Extra MCU boards are 3 for $10. They even have a RF capable MSP430 for wireless communication.

PWM is pulse width modulation. By quickly turning the led on and off, you can effectively change the amount of light. The trick is to do it quickly enough so that the flickering is not visible to the human eye.

A lot of chips have a PWM input. By supplying a PWM signal to this pin, you can modulate the output.


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## vestureofblood (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks mkp,

I have heard a lot about the PWM at cpf, but just wasnt clear on what it is.

One more thing I would like to be clear on. If someone could doctor up the multilevel driver sketch a bit with a few arrows or somthing to show the pattern of current flow, I think I would have a better understanding of exactly what is talking place. Somthing like this.




even getting warm?


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## old4570 (Apr 12, 2009)

I'd like to know how one could sandwich two boards together to work with a pill/P60 drop in ? . 

So as to have a spring for + in the middle of the board ??? 


Matt


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## kevinm (Apr 17, 2009)

mpk said:


> A MCU is a microcontroller, basically a system on a chip. You can write software on your Linux, Unix, or Windows machine and download it into the MCU. My current favorite is the Texas Instruments MSP430. For only $20, you can get a development system made up of a usb programmer and a small detachable board that has the MCU. Extra MCU boards are 3 for $10. They even have a RF capable MSP430 for wireless communication.



More information and links, please. Oh, and pictures?

Thanks,
Kevin


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## CBR-runner (Apr 17, 2009)

to use them together you may have to sand the outer edge of one board down and then sadwich them together. DK has 2 of the 1400ma boards already done for like $10 i think. The title is SSC P7 driver. 

I'd look on KD to get an idea of what they did. 

Use thermal epoxy to hold them together and done.


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## CBR-runner (May 15, 2009)

does anyone think that this will drive a Cree MC-E with a single 18650 cell.

maybe with only 6 chips enabled?


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## NetKidz (May 18, 2009)

CBR-runner said:


> does anyone think that this will drive a Cree MC-E with a single 18650 cell.
> 
> maybe with only 6 chips enabled?


 
Yes. Just wire MC-E in 4p config and it'll work like P7.

Thanks.


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## old4570 (Jun 3, 2009)

I have the KD sandwich driver .. But I would like to make a multi mode driver . for P60 drop ins .. 

Hmmm


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## wildstar87 (Jun 3, 2009)

Shining Beam has the elusive double-sided 8x-AMC7135 Multi-mode driver (High-Med-Low) for sale. It's perfect for a P7/MC-E build.


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## old4570 (Jun 4, 2009)

wildstar87 said:


> Shining Beam has the elusive double-sided 8x-AMC7135 Multi-mode driver (High-Med-Low) for sale. It's perfect for a P7/MC-E build.



Thanks , I made the purchase ...

But expensive with post ...


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## 3rdrock (Aug 22, 2009)

wildstar87 said:


> Shining Beam has the elusive double-sided 8x-AMC7135 Multi-mode driver (High-Med-Low) for sale. It's perfect for a P7/MC-E build.


 

I looked for this,do you have a link?


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## kwarwick (Aug 22, 2009)

3rdrock said:


> I looked for this,do you have a link?



They *HAD* it, and I managed to order one earlier in the month. It no longer shows up on their website. :mecry:


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## Winx (Aug 23, 2009)

I bet Bryan has ordered more. Both of those famous 3-mode drivers, fully regulated 1A and this 2.8A, are sold out from time to time.

Just visit the website regularly.


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## CBR-runner (Aug 23, 2009)

I just ordered 2 of those drivers last week. Made a damn fine P60 dropin with a Cree MC-e

now they are sold out. I was going to make 7 P-60 MC-e dropins but I guess I'll wait.


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## TorchBoy (Aug 23, 2009)

NetKidz said:


> BTW, there's already a 8x7135 multi-mode board, I posted in this thread at #59.


Nothing ever came of that request to DX did it?


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## NetKidz (Aug 25, 2009)

TorchBoy said:


> Nothing ever came of that request to DX did it?



No. The product request status showed "Reviewed" and no product till now.....


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## dirtech (Oct 23, 2009)

Can anyone try to conceptually explain how these two boards are connected. I recieved mine and they are a bit different from these pictured here. The two level multimode has one of the 7135 chips in a different placement and its screwing me up. I thought I had them in parallel and was only getting 1.4 amps with no multimode. I functioned checked both boards and was getting 1a on high with the multimode and 1.4a on the single mode separately. Also, when I bridged the 4x 7135 after removing the diode, I got nothing at all. It was only when trying again with a unmodified 4x7135 did I get any light at all.

Conceptually, I think I need to connect the neg outer rings to each other and the pos led pads (that you would normally just attach to led) to each other. then connect the bat pos to the center pad and the bat neg to the outer neg ring on the multi driver. Then connect the multimode driver pos to led pos and multimode driver neg to led led. I tried this and wasn't getting multimodes. I'm missing a link here, maybe someone can help. I can post pictures of my driver boards when I can find my camera. I am working with a parallel wired MCE and 3 C Ni-mh's in a D mag.

BTW, total newb and first attempt at making a sandwich.

Thanks for any help.


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## TorchBoy (Oct 24, 2009)

The AMC7135 has a chip enable pin, called Vdd I think from memory. That needs to be driven by the multimode chip.


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## dirtech (Oct 24, 2009)

TorchBoy said:


> The AMC7135 has a chip enable pin, called Vdd I think from memory. That needs to be driven by the multimode chip.



Thanks. I read that earlier as well. Not really sure what that means though. Off to google.


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## dirtech (Oct 24, 2009)

Here are the boards I'm working with. The multimode is very similar looking, but sufficiently different to confuse someone who doesn't know anything about this stuff and is just following a recipe.







The bottom left driver isn't working at all on its own, but one with the diode still present gives 1.4amps. 

Here is what I did








In netkidz 1st post, the thing I don't understand is why are the LED neg and the positive connection between multimode and the slave connected to the 7135 chip to the right of the MCU.

Shown here


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## TorchBoy (Oct 24, 2009)

Um, let's see... 

Battery + and LED + are the same thing, and remains unchanged for both boards.

Board neg (-) remains the same also, and connects the the GND pin on the AMC7135, which is the centre (center) pin.

LED neg (-) should remain unchanged, the OUT pin on the AMC7135, which is on the left when you have the three pins pointing toward you.

That just leaves the Vdd pin, on the right when they're pointing toward you. On the single mode board normally battery + feeds the Vdd pin through a diode, which netkidz removed (shorted) and is now feeding with the output of the multimode chip. Basically it should be just a matter of connecting the Vdd pins on the two boards together.


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## dirtech (Oct 25, 2009)

Here is what I ended up with.






I removed the diode and jumper'd it with a small piece of wire. Ignore the way I jumped it in the picture. The small red line is how I jumped it. The rest is how it has been previously posted. 
I get 2.4a on high and around .25a on low. Exactly what I wanted.

Thank you Torchboy for filling in the missing pieces for me. 

This one is for my father in law after I test it for awhile. My next one is a 2s2p MCE with the same driver setup sans 2 7135 chips for 1.7a on high with two 18650's in a 2d mag.


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## TorchBoy (Oct 25, 2009)

Awesome. I'm glad that bridging is sorted out. That new design is so similar in appearance to the ones I've seen but really quite different electrically in layout. Where are they from? And what multi-mode board are you using?

BTW, that latest pic looks like you're not using the two LED (-) pads on the boards now, although the lines on your previous pic had the LED (-) lines pointing to those pads.


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## dirtech (Oct 26, 2009)

TorchBoy said:


> Awesome. I'm glad that bridging is sorted out. That new design is so similar in appearance to the ones I've seen but really quite different electrically in layout. Where are they from? And what multi-mode board are you using?
> 
> BTW, that latest pic looks like you're not using the two LED (-) pads on the boards now, although the lines on your previous pic had the LED (-) lines pointing to those pads.



I am using these two boards from KD.

http://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=1802
and
http://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=9605

If I remember correctly, I tried many configurations, I'm not using the two neg LED pads because I wasn't getting multimode, just 1.4 amps from the 4 x 7135 board.


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## TorchBoy (Oct 26, 2009)

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." :laughing: (So there's no need to move the wires back to the pads now it's working.)

Thanks for those links. That two mode board sounds quite nice.


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## vestureofblood (Jan 22, 2010)

Using this type of driver with a 7135 chipset that just "burns off" the extra voltage, do you still get longer run time on low modes?


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## joedirt (Mar 16, 2010)

In case anyone reads this and is confused by hacking..

The 7135 regulators are basically like resistors, but with three inputs:

Vin -- (Vdd) to battery (or from 12F629 GPIO output)
Gnd -- gnd
Vout -- (Vreg/Out) to diode (cathode of LED)

There is example diagrams for the 12F629 PIC examples, and this one for the Atmel example which is the one in this thread, See also here;




You have to connect three connections to stack the extra 7135s to the controller board. 

Vin must be at least 0.12 V above Vf of LED. When the Vin (battery) voltage is much higher the 7135 burns it off as heat. So Vf is higher when you are at 1A, so the 7135 is more efficient because for high currents, the Vf of the LED is closer to 3.6V or whatever your battery is, ie. only 10% of the power is going to heat. When lower power setting modes, Vf is lower so the 7135 is now like at 60% efficient so now 40% is going into heat. 

However in 1A it is 10% to heat.. that is 100mA, total usage is 1100mAh
But, at lower output 0.1A it might be 40% as heat but that is 40mA, total usage is 140mAh. So you don't notice it wearing down battery life.

You want to match Vf of driver to the batteries you are using.


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## TorchBoy (Mar 16, 2010)

joedirt said:


> In case anyone reads this and is confused by hacking..
> 
> The 7135 regulators are basically like resistors, but with three inputs:
> 
> ...


:welcome: joedirt.

The three pins on an AMC7135 are Vdd, GND, and OUT. The OUT pin is connected to the LED negative. The LED positive and Vdd are both connected to battery positive.


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## joedirt (Mar 16, 2010)

TorchBoy said:


> :welcome: joedirt.
> 
> The three pins on an AMC7135 are Vdd, GND, and OUT. The OUT pin is connected to the LED negative. The LED positive and Vdd are both connected to battery positive.



I had editted the post right after I hit Submit to say cathode. The "Vdd" of the 7135 could be connected to the battery, but in the case of the modes, it is connected to the GPIO of the microcontrollers.

Also, one more note.... EACH 7135 is a current regulator.
Each 7135 will provide 330mA... So while you can chain hundreds of these in parallel, you really have to look at your LED current you want. Other wise you will damage the driver (if your batteries are big enough and can support a high enough Vf to the LED). If you put a hundred of these in parallel, it means that that the LED will basically be directly connected to the battery and the LED brightness will decrease as the battery voltage drops. So there is no point in putting 8 of these in parallel unless you are trying to regulate to 8*330mA.


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## Megavvolt (Apr 3, 2010)

Somebody please help:
Got several SKU's 7612 (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7612), and all of them make a high pitched noise on low and middle. No noise on high.

Of course it's not heard when you ride but when I switch the light on when at home I hear it loud and clear.

My boards are exactly as pictured at DX:





Is this noise normal or should I get rid of it, and how?


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## vestureofblood (Apr 3, 2010)

I think unfortunately that noise is a common side effect with the multilevel 7135 boards. I have even heard it faintly from the higher quality boards like shiningbeams.


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## Megavvolt (Apr 4, 2010)

Thank you! I just wanted to make sure it's not a malfunction.


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## TorchBoy (Apr 4, 2010)

I think it's normal, but I don't know what makes the noise. I put together a light last Thursday using one of these, and played with it in several caves over the weekend. In a quiet environment I could just hear it on low and clearly hear it on medium, but in the caves I didn't notice it much at all.



vestureofblood said:


> I have even heard it faintly from the higher quality boards like shiningbeams.


Don't they use the same components with similar soldering? How is the quality different?


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## TorchBoy (Apr 10, 2010)

joedirt said:


> There is example diagrams for the 12F629 PIC examples, and this one for the Atmel example which is the one in this thread, See also here;


Any idea why there's no resistor in the middle of that board? What driver is it? A 2 mode?


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## greencardigan (Apr 11, 2010)

Does anyone know what frequency the microprocessor on these boards use to pwm the 7135's Vdd pin?

Maybe someone with a scope could check it?


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## TorchBoy (Apr 11, 2010)

greencardigan said:


> Does anyone know what frequency the microprocessor on these boards use to pwm the 7135's Vdd pin?
> 
> Maybe someone with a scope could check it?


I used my multimeter on the 17 mode version and got 4.7 kHz. http://www.videofoundry.co.nz/ianman/laboratory/research/driverlist.php?price_min=3.6&price_max=3.6


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## technology (Apr 16, 2010)

Hi, I'm newbie building additional light for my motorcycle with a single P7. This mod is really excellent to drive it to 2.8A.However, I'm having trouble with the driver's input Vf(~5v) since my automotive battery supplies 12.0Vf. I appreciate if you could advice me on how to supply just 4.5v-5v to the driver from 12v source by any others means instead of a resistor(i knew, It will be overkill to pass 12w of heat through a resistor).

Many Thanks.


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## VidPro (Apr 16, 2010)

technology said:


> Hi, I'm newbie building additional light for my motorcycle with a single P7. This mod is really excellent to drive it to 2.8A.However, I'm having trouble with the driver's input Vf(~5v) since my automotive battery supplies 12.0Vf. I appreciate if you could advice me on how to supply just 4.5v-5v to the driver from 12v source by any others means instead of a resistor(i knew, It will be overkill to pass 12w of heat through a resistor).
> 
> Many Thanks.


 
your going to have to either regulate out a lot of voltage somehow, most of the cheap methods do so by burning it off in some sort of resistance. Like a 5v voltage regulator thing , just resistive.
somehow for stuff like that you really want to go DC-DC with the voltage and current being "converted" to the lower voltage instead of burnt-off. Especially when fitted into a Can, with the led in same can.

then you probably would prefer to switch to a WHOLE driver that does that voltage from the start, vrses trying to get this one to do what it really isnt designed to do, because you could end up with 2 regulation devices that could do harmonics and fight eachother, due to thier pulsing and sencing. 

From Torchboys driver thread, there is http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=1866
which at 12v input only sucks up 1 amp, which shows it at least tries to do a voltage conversion, but of course running ~3amps to led it still can heat up good. 
there are many other bucking devices available some which do a good DC-DC but limited to 1Amp to led :-(

when you start with 12V (actually more like 12-14.5 or even up to 16v on some less regulated bikes) if you could pull off 2-3 series P7 , then it will be the same ammount of "AMPS" through many of the curcuit things. and the regulation from the higher voltage to the lower voltage isnt such a large differance.

also there is this https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2545117#post2545117
driver which has a bit more juice in its parts , which might make the amp handling better.

When i put in a pair of only 50W lights and upped the amps on my headlight on my small street cruiser, hundreds of miles of road later, i wished there was a kick starter . because the stator (generator) didnt have enough output to keep all my additions going, and charge the battery too. So in vehicles we might assume that there is an unlimited gas generator in there , that provides unlimited power, then next week your trying to push start a 700LB bike. So i wouldnt advocate wasting 10-20-30Watts even if there seems to be 300Watts to use up.

if you could Team up the light set on a BAR, or have a driver pack in one location driving 2 cans with the leds in it, then you could potentially save money by having ONE of the good high amp buck drivers running 2xP7 Light cans. once you have the series going, then a hipcc or hipflex might also be usable http://www.taskled.com/techhipcc.html


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## technology (Apr 16, 2010)

Thanks VidPro for the information.

Driving 3 P7s serially with these drivers are in my plans too but as of now I'm just thinking of 1x P7 which could effectively replace my 35W motorcycle headlamp(I would keep the original too in case of emergency ) and at the same time I don't want to spend more on this setup.

I was just wondering If it possible to put two or three of these http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26110 in parallel and then PWM with http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6190 after taking those AMCs off.

Further suggestions are welcomed. 

Cheers!


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## TorchBoy (Apr 16, 2010)

If you haven't already bought the Seoul P7, a Cree MC-E would be easier to use because you could drive the four dice in a 2S2P arrangement. That would give you a wider selection of drivers because you could drive each series pair with its own driver (at up to 700 mA).


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## VidPro (Apr 16, 2010)

technology said:


> Thanks VidPro for the information.
> 
> Driving 3 P7s serially with these drivers are in my plans too but as of now I'm just thinking of 1x P7 which could effectively replace my 35W motorcycle headlamp(I would keep the original too in case of emergency ) and at the same time I don't want to spend more on this setup.
> 
> ...



sure if you want driver wars  what is wrong with paying a few bucks extra , vrses 3 of these things kludged together , trying to pull off the amps? i dont get it. you could try and do some additional parts added to attempt to get them to quit fighting eachother, and at least have exacting similar resistance to/from each.

yes any of the PWm board, can be used as a PWM controller thing, as long as the mosfet can handle the amps, and if it cant put a good mosfet on with some good heat syncing instead.


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## TorchBoy (Apr 16, 2010)

technology said:


> I was just wondering If it possible to put two or three of these http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26110 in parallel and then PWM with http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6190 after taking those AMCs off.


Those boards can sort of be run in parallel... but only because they can cope with twice the load anyway. If you have two in parallel, because the drivers aren't perfectly identical one ends up doing most of the work. They use a set resistor to set the current they regulate, and with two drivers in parallel you have two set resistors in parallel, which means half the set resistance, and twice the current they try to provide. It's better to just change the set resistor, add a heatsink if necessary, and check all the other components can cope. (The Schottky diode is an SS24, so 2 amps is fine for it.)

The PWM chip for the second board doesn't like more than 6 V.


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## VidPro (Apr 16, 2010)

TorchBoy said:


> If you haven't already bought the Seoul P7, a Cree MC-E would be easier to use because you could drive the four dice in a 2S2P arrangement. That would give you a wider selection of drivers because you could drive each series pair with its own driver (at up to 700 mA).


 
Then in his idea of using many low amp drivers :duh2: , each driver item could be running one of the Emitters in a MCE package too.

best of both worlds, get series going for, high voltage low amp drivers with ability for multiples in series, and use them as seperate emitters for multiple drivers.
multiplicity.

Here is a weird one, after 50,000 shocks from riding on a motorcycle , how many of them boards do you think are going to still have all thier flow soldered parts on them 
less is better, and some "Potting" might be usefull too.


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## TorchBoy (Apr 16, 2010)

VidPro said:


> Then in his idea of using many low amp drivers :duh2: , each driver item could be running one of the Emitters in a MCE package too.


That would be awesome for redundancy!  I was actually thinking of just two drivers, though, each driving a couple of dice in series. Those $1.99 ones would do perfectly if they were tweaked down to 700 mA. (That's a 0.36 ohm set resistor, right?)

I haven't had a problem with buck boards coming unsoldered, but an old Kennan driver I used in a car did go dodgy. But I think that was because of heat, not spikes.


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## kingkong (Oct 17, 2010)

hi,

I have some of these drivers.. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1885.
can i use 3 to drive the ssc P7 bin C or D? the driver is rated at 1050ma x 3 = 3150ma. it is safe?

kong.


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## vestureofblood (Oct 17, 2010)

kingkong said:


> hi,
> 
> I have some of these drivers.. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1885.
> can i use 3 to drive the ssc P7 bin C or D? the driver is rated at 1050ma x 3 = 3150ma. it is safe?
> ...



Hi Kong,

The short answer is yes. However thermal transfer and heat sinking are extremely important in this situation. I have driven MCE/P7 type emitters harder than this but if you dont get the the thermal transfer to the heat sink right you will lose dies in the emitter.

I recomend using a THIN layer of Arctic Silver Epoxy to attach the emitter to the sink.


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## freeloader700 (Feb 22, 2012)

Hey okay so I have been reading through the different postings and I want to make sure my facts are straight.


My project: 2D mag P7 (or even XM-L)
Run 2 x 18650 

I would like modes. 5 would be good. I am looking at this driver http://www.dealextreme.com/p/5-mode-...-emitters-6190 to control the modes

and then two of these http://www.dealextreme.com/p/amc7135...s-20-pack-3201 sandwiched together. 

Now...is my input voltage too much for these drivers? (seeing as they are 3.7-4.2 Vin) I am guessing that because all three board are going to be in series that it can take essentially 11.1 -12.6 Vin. Is this correct?

I am also planning a direct drive 3D P7, will the 5- mode driver work with that without restricting the led's output?


Please educate me on what I am missing. I would really appreciate that.


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