# Balance Charge 2 to 12 (Any Li-Ion Type) With Magnets Simultaneously--Check This Out!



## LuxLuthor (Sep 4, 2009)

I have to give credit to Raoul_Duke who asked me for some of my magnet leads I used to sell here. I got to thinking of the charging of all my Lithium Ion cells and just came up with a very easy way to do it...sort of a VOILA! moment.

I have long ago mastered the technique of securely soldering wires to powerful Neodymium magnets. Now I attach 22 AWG balance wires to them, and other end comes back to a JST or Yeonho SMH250 connector which plugs right into the balance tap connector on your charger. Main charging power clips on larger 16AWG and stronger end magnets attached to end of string.

I have 9 colors of wire, so could simultaneous balance charge 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or more cells. One of the tricks was getting the proper connector for charger from Korean company, and crimping tool.

Couple sample pix to show proof of concept.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*

I'm happy how well this works. To easily balance charge 6 or more Li-Ion cells with single charger doesn't need the cradles we were trying to work out in other threads. Here is photo of underway charging:






This works well enough to be able to charge large number of cells and have them balanced with each other. easy & cheap setup. I have got ahold of the connectors that plug into the Hyperion LBA-10 or eStation BC-6.


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## mfrey (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*

Cool. Are you accepting orders?

I could use one for a BC6 that is capable of balance charging two or three cells depending upon the application. I was going to make one myself but if the price is right there's no point in tooling up and rediscovering what you've already pioneered.


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## karlthev (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*

Always great work LL, nice...!


Karl


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*

Also, these magnets have very strong force, so with their nickel coating, easily work with 5A charging current. The end wires are thicker 16AWG, while very low current balance tap wires only need to be 22AWG. It's not designed for use with the 10-20A fast charging the RC guys use in their LiFePO4 packs.

mfrey, as a further proof of concept (even though I used above also in BC6), I could do a 3 cell for you that would work with BC6. You would need thicker end magnet leads too? Probably $15

The funny thing about the BC6, is for some inexplicable reason instead of using the 7 pin/lead connector which is how many you need to balance 6 cells, they use an 8 pin connector, making two Neg (black) wires be joined as one. But having thought ahead, I got a bag of 8 pin connectors from Korea also.


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## csshih (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*

interesting! mind sharing your technique for soldering onto magnets?

How much magnetism do they lose? I heard that heat gets rid of it.


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## flasohollic (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*

I have done it very simulare excpet i only charge two as i only have pair not 4-6 simulare cells and use springs instead of magnet

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3205/dsc0613f.jpg


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*

It is extremely easy to destroy all of the magnetic force. I think surface prep, correct solder, flux, and fast soldering are the main things. I can do it with no loss of magnetism. 

I could probably have hung a 4th C cell if I wanted to go hunting for another in one in my lights....but this gives an idea.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*



flasohollic said:


> I have done it very simulare excpet i only charge two as i only have pair not 4-6 simulare cells and use springs instead of magnet


 
There are many easy ways to do 1 or 2 cells. Also, those type of 'cheap' springs have very high resistance which cause problems if you need more than minimal charging current. 

When you have a boatload of cells, and you don't want to spend all day charging, there are few options to arrive at balanced charged cells. If I hook up a 2nd Hyperion LBA-10 balance charger, I could do 12 cells at once with this technique. To give you an idea of how long we have been wrestling with this issue, you can look at this old Voltcraft adjustable cradle thread here...which are only available in Europe, and this mod was considered a major breakthrough.

More importantly, this magnet method works for any size cell that has a ferrous metallic end plate. A notable exception are the A123 Systems Inc brand of Nano Lithium Iron Phosphate cells with an aluminum can. Although they spot welded a wafer-thin ferrous-nickel disc on the end that the magnet can make contact with, I would be charging this with my own spot welded battery pack contact strips==>soldered to wires in any case with these particular cells.


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## rizky_p (Sep 8, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*

wow that is a lot of 18650s to charge

it still baffles me on how you solder those neodymium magnets that came with "15.6v torch" battery pack that i bought from you without damaging the magnet it self...care to share some tricks lux? 

Nice trick on charging and balancing using the magnets.


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## Raoul_Duke (Sep 8, 2009)

This is exactly what I wanted....

Lux was the only guy I knew who had sussed soldering these magnets, I tried a couple, and cooked them. :sick2: So I asked Lux to see if he could Chop up RC harness kit and solder magnets onto it.

I never dreamed he would find a solution for various chargers/ connectors types etc. 

Folks, I know that Lux has put quite literally $$$$'s into this project alone, and lots efffort tracking these down...So Maximum Kudos To Him 

You just can't get/ find these connectors...and thats just the start, you got to get the little crimps, etc, etc.

Where Do I sign? 

You are going to sell some of those connectors...Right?


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 8, 2009)

LOL! I didn't really mean this to be a sales thread. Oh GOD....the pressure of delivering on sales threads!!! I mainly wanted to post this, given the hours and hours and hours many of us spent trying to figure out how to more efficiently & safely charge the larger quantities of Lithium cells. Many of were shocked that no universal balance tap 

I have one of FiveMega's original Mag85's that uses 9 x 17500 Li-Ions. When I think of the number of times I waited for them to charge in two of the 2-bay DSD chargers, then two Pila chargers...when I could have charged and balanced them all at one time...I can only wish I had thought of this long ago.

Some chargers can use JST XH plastic connectors which have been at Digikey for a long time. But try and find SMH250 connectors & YST pins which a number of hobby chargers use.


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## Bones (Sep 12, 2009)

I'm almost sorry to see this solution working so well.

While elegant in it's simplicity, it will probably spell the end to most of the endeavors like this one by Data that are as much art as science:


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## Black Rose (Sep 12, 2009)

I am always amazed at the ingenuity and amount of effort some of the folks on this forum put into finding solutions to problems like this :thumbsup:

I think the only downside to Lux's solution would be the amount of horizontal space needed to charge cells once you get beyond 3 or 4 cells.


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## rizky_p (Sep 12, 2009)

you can put the battery rest on the table, if its get too long then build a U-shape connector so the battery doesn't have to be in the straight line.



Black Rose said:


> I think the only downside to Lux's solution would be the amount of horizontal space needed to charge cells once you get beyond 3 or 4 cells.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 12, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> I am always amazed at the ingenuity and amount of effort some of the folks on this forum put into finding solutions to problems like this :thumbsup:
> 
> I think the only downside to Lux's solution would be the amount of horizontal space needed to charge cells once you get beyond 3 or 4 cells.



That is a legitimate point, but I got used to charging 20-30s Elite 2/3A NiMH cells with the much thinner magnets which hold them in a straight string. 

However, I also developed this 6p (& made a 12p) setup which can be used to charge as a 'single' cell with large capacity.


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## Black Rose (Sep 12, 2009)

Nice work Lux :thumbsup:


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## Turbo Guy (Sep 13, 2009)

I only needed to charge one or two cells at a time and FMA Cell Pro will charge at up to 4A through the balancing leads so ......

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2914867&postcount=1


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## MWClint (Sep 15, 2009)

I have been using the triton and equinox balancer for my rc lipos..
the equinox came with a few extra balancing leads, so i figured i'd 
have a go at Lux's mod.

i did a simple 2S balancer, using 3 neo magnets.

filed an edge of each neodymium magnet, very lightly until some copper
color shown thru. dabbed a bit of flux on the filed edge, hit it for a second with the solder and balancing leads on each magnet and it was done.

charged a pair of imr 16340's and it went without a hitch.

thanks Lux for such a cool idea!


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## 3rdrock (Sep 15, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*

:hahaha:


LuxLuthor[URL="https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/160942" said:


> To give you an idea of how long we have been wrestling with this issue, you can look at this old Voltcraft adjustable cradle thread here...which are only available in Europe, and this mod was considered a major breakthrough[/URL]./QUOTE]
> 
> I was looking for this last week.Thats funny.I want to start getting more batterys and didnt want to wait days to charge them.
> Where is the best deal for a eStation BC-6 so I can get your balancer with magnets?


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## clintb (Sep 15, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*



3rdrock said:


> I was looking for this last week.Thats funny.I want to start getting more batterys and didnt want to wait days to charge them.
> Where is the best deal for a eStation BC-6 so I can get your balancer with magnets?


If you're hell bent on buying a Bantam, here's a great deal on the BC-8.
http://www.neumotors.com/store/page10/page10.html
and a review:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666885


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 15, 2009)

*Re: Lithium Balance Charging with Magnets--CHeck this out*



clintb said:


> 3rdrock said:
> 
> 
> > :hahaha:
> ...


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## smopoim86 (Sep 17, 2009)

That BC8 is really tempting me. If i had a set of magnet leads, it would succeed. I've wanted to build a set of holders, but i think the magnet leads would probably be easier and take up much less space. 

The only real thing keeping me from buying that BC8 is the new models out(they look cooler). 

Those leads look like a great solution the the problem we've all dealt with for too long.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 17, 2009)

smopoim86 said:


> ...i think the magnet leads would probably be easier and take up much less space.



Indeed


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## smopoim86 (Sep 17, 2009)

If you had the plug for the BC8 and were selling these, I'd go ahead and order that one. My current hobby charger is a chinese cheapo (mystery brand i think).

Have you used the usb and software on the BC6? How well does it work(the software, I know the charger is excellent)?


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 18, 2009)

smopoim86 said:


> If you had the plug for the BC8 and were selling these, I'd go ahead and order that one. My current hobby charger is a chinese cheapo (mystery brand i think).
> 
> Have you used the usb and software on the BC6? How well does it work(the software, I know the charger is excellent)?



Again, the charger probably comes with a couple plug adapters, and it is easy to use a pin to lightly press down on the raised retaining lip of the wire crimp, while gently pulling on wire....it slips right out. Essentially the adapter plug can be reloaded with the same or other wires having the same crimp pin. I show what I mean in this thumbnail. The retaining clip is just a raised flange of the metal crimp pin.


​ I have not used the graphing. Holy crap, that guy just dropped the price of that to $109 and has 8 left. Might as well grab one at that price.


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## xeonsaga88 (Sep 18, 2009)

I would love to have one to charge my 5 imr26500 for use with my hobby charger.:thumbsup:


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## Chodes (Sep 18, 2009)

Lux , when I bought some packs of you a year or so ago , I ordered an extra pair of magnets and I made a balance set up similar to your first pic.

I planned it as a temporary measure but I see no reason to change.
I am reasonably careful with the magnets , was expecting the solder joints to fail after repeated use , not so.

I made a simple holder, but find it's not necessary.

Edit: Oversize Photo removed , link instead:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jflights/_02_9646.jpg


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## clintb (Sep 18, 2009)

Chodes,

To avoid the wrath of a mod, please resize your pic to no more than 800x600.

All,

Here's a link for the BC-8 manual, if you're interested.
http://www.bantamtek.com/Manual/BC8 English.pdf

Specs:
Operating voltage: DC 11~18 volts
Idling current: approx. 100mA
Charge power: max 150W
Discharge power: max 30W
NiCd/MH: 1~27 cells
Li-Ion 3.6V/Li-Po 3.7V /Li-Fe 3.3V: 1~8 series
Pb: 2~36V
Charge current: 0.1 to 7.0A
Discharge current: 0.1 to 5.0A
# of cycle: 1 to 5 times
Battery data memory: up to 10 data
Unit Weight: 1000g
Dimension: 160x120x40 mm

BTW, the Bantam units are VERY good; excellent quality and always get favorable reviews. At the $109 price, it's an insane deal. Feature wise, for another $10 you could get something with more features, and more overall charge power (250W vs. BC-8 150W). I'm referring to the iCharger 106b+, here.


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## DM51 (Sep 18, 2009)

clintb said:


> Chodes,
> 
> To avoid the wrath of a mod, please resize your pic to no more than 800x600.


No 'Wrath of Mod', lol - but yes, please could you resize it to 800 x 800 pixels max (see Rule 3)


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## smopoim86 (Sep 18, 2009)

clintb said:


> BTW, the Bantam units are VERY good; excellent quality and always get favorable reviews. At the $109 price, it's an insane deal. Feature wise, for another $10 you could get something with more features, and more overall charge power (250W vs. BC-8 150W). I'm referring to the iCharger 106b+, here.



That unit will not do the same number of cells. I have a couple nimh hotwire setups with more than 17 cells, I'd say the Bantam is better.

Daniel


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## clintb (Sep 18, 2009)

smopoim86 said:


> That unit will not do the same number of cells. I have a couple nimh hotwire setups with more than 17 cells, I'd say the Bantam is better.
> 
> Daniel


I think you're on the fringes though. How many people have 17 cell NiMh packs these days? In YOUR situation the Bantam would be better. For everyone else, it's a toss up. Two more serially charged LiPo on the Bantam, or parallel charge at a higher rate on the iCharger.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 18, 2009)

clintb said:


> I think you're on the fringes though. How many people have 17 cell NiMh packs these days? In YOUR situation the Bantam would be better. For everyone else, it's a toss up. Two more serially charged LiPo on the Bantam, or parallel charge at a higher rate on the iCharger.



You are neglecting several of the most imporant differences between them.

1) Bantam BC6 or 8 has it's own AC transformer built in. No need for a 12V PS. For non RC users, that is a big deal in footprint, weight, extra cost.

2) Bantam has a longer user track record. Not to say anything is wrong with iCharger, but holding up to the test of time and more users is important.

3) Doing more cells with BC8 can be a huge issue...that I believe outweighs the 2A higher charging output of iCharger. I previously had to buy the Hyperion 1210i to charge my Larry14K using 24 x SubC NiMH pack. I could have done it with the Bantam. 

Likewise, I had to buy two of the Hyperion LBA-10 balancers that only do 6s each, and a network cable to join them--for when I wanted to charge the 8 x 18650 Li-Ion cells I have in a couple hotwires.

4) Finally, looking at the product photos, it appears that the iCharger only sends you a 2s connector. More were included in my BC6, so I'll see what comes with this BC8.

RC Universe is doing the same discounted pricing here, so they may be moving out old stock for new models.


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## smopoim86 (Sep 18, 2009)

The BC8 and the BC-6 DC that you linked both are DC only. That's the reason i haven't gotten that BC-8 yet, I'd really rather have the built in PSU.

And the new models are out


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## clintb (Sep 18, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> You are neglecting several of the most imporant differences between them.



Not quite, look a bit closer.


> 1) Bantam BC6 or 8 has it's own AC transformer built in. No need for a 12V PS. For non RC users, that is a big deal in footprint, weight, extra cost.



Neither the BC-6, nor the BC-8 have AC power built-in. There is a BC-6 AC/DC, but it's $139.00. The dual power BC-8 is the BC-8DP at $309.95.



> 2) Bantam has a longer user track record. Not to say anything is wrong with iCharger, but holding up to the test of time and more users is important.


I'm not going to argue sales numbers because, quite frankly, I don't have such a thing. I do think it's fair to say the Bantam's are good quality, but it does not mean they are more reliable.



> 3) Doing more cells with BC8 can be a huge issue...that I believe outweighs the 2A higher charging output of iCharger. I previously had to buy the Hyperion 1210i to charge my Larry14K using 24 x SubC NiMH pack. I could have done it with the Bantam.
> 
> Likewise, I had to buy two of the Hyperion LBA-10 balancers that only do 6s each, and a network cable to join them--for when I wanted to charge the 8 x 18650 Li-Ion cells I have in a couple hotwires.


Again, I would contest that you, like smopoim86, are a fringe case user. How many people, these days, are doing a high number of Nixx cells?



> 4) Finally, looking at the product photos, it appears that the iCharger only sends you a 2s connector. More were included in my BC6, so I'll see what comes with this BC8.


I believe you're looking at the temp probe. Depending on the dealer, an iCharger might be bundled with a balance board, or not. There's a main balance tap on the charger, which is then connected to a balance board that has the appropriate number of slots for 2-6s configurations. Also, the boards can be purchased for the type of pack/balance connectors you're using, be it Kokam, Thunder Power, JST-XH, etc... JST-XH is used for the charger connection. See balance boards here.



> RC Universe is doing the same discounted pricing here, so they may be moving out old stock for new models.



I'm not trying to debate which charger is better, rather, just pointing out a different option, depending on the user's needs. If you NEED higher than 17 Nixx cell charging capability the iCharger 106b+ is not for you. If someone was interested, I could detail the features I think make the iCharger line the most versatile charger on the market today. Some people don't like the control / versatility though, and just want simplicity.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 19, 2009)

I did not realize that was for a non-AC powered BC-6, which makes the rest of my points not worth making. I didn't even realize they made both an AC and DC only model with same BC6/8 designation. In any case, this thread is not about debating various charger features.


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## clintb (Sep 19, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> I did not realize that was for a non-AC powered BC-6, which makes the rest of my points not worth making. I didn't even realize they made both an AC and DC only model with same BC6/8 designation. In any case, this thread is not about debating various charger features.


No worries, and you're correct, this thread went a bit off topic with the chargers. They're intertwined though, so not too far of the path. I think anyone reading has some good information in the way of your magnetic charging leads and great chargers.


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## 3rdrock (Sep 25, 2009)

They are now $99 plus shipping.









If you're hell bent on buying a Bantam, here's a great deal on the BC-8.
http://www.neumotors.com/store/page10/page10.html
and a review:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666885


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## Darien (Sep 27, 2009)

Where can I find a decent regulated 12v power supply to use with a BC-8?


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## Chodes (Sep 28, 2009)

Darien said:


> Where can I find a decent regulated 12v power supply to use with a BC-8?



Millions of good , cheap (and expensive) 12v supplies available these days - PC PWR supply!

Most require you to short 1 wire to enable output when not connected to a motherboard.
I googled and instantly found the info that enabled me to use one I had.


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## Varriano (Sep 28, 2009)

These look great. 

Lux are you able to make one for a Hyperion EOS 0606i? I have the 6 port balancing jack.

Cost?

Thanks V.


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## 3rdrock (Oct 2, 2009)

3rdrock said:


> They are now $99 plus shipping.
> 
> If you're hell bent on buying a Bantam, here's a great deal on the BC-8.
> http://www.neumotors.com/store/page10/page10.html
> ...


 

My order came in.
I'll use a P/C power supply to run it.


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## 3rdrock (Oct 8, 2009)

Chodes said:


> Millions of good , cheap (and expensive) 12v supplies available these days - PC PWR supply!
> 
> Most require you to short 1 wire to enable output when not connected to a motherboard.
> I googled and instantly found the info that enabled me to use one I had.


 
Jumped the green and black together and it turned on. Thanks for the info.


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## smopoim86 (Oct 8, 2009)

3rdrock said:


> Jumped the green and black together and it turned on. Thanks for the info.



You may need to put a load on the 5v rail to use the 12v on the pc psu. Many computer psus will fall out of proper regulation if the 12v is loaded up and nothing else is loaded. A 12v tail light bulb attached to the 5v rail is generally enough. If you look for guides on line, some people use a 10w resistor (i cant remember the resistance) heatsinked to the case of the psu for the fake load. 

Have fun. I'd still like a set of these leads.... :twothumbs


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## KiwiMark (Oct 9, 2009)

smopoim86 said:


> You may need to put a load on the 5v rail to use the 12v on the pc psu. Many computer psus will fall out of proper regulation if the 12v is loaded up and nothing else is loaded. A 12v tail light bulb attached to the 5v rail is generally enough. If you look for guides on line, some people use a 10w resistor (i cant remember the resistance) heatsinked to the case of the psu for the fake load.
> 
> Have fun. I'd still like a set of these leads.... :twothumbs



I use a PC PSU and I would like to point out that doing so is ridiculously easy. You can buy a 20 pin or 24 pin extension lead for the PSU - M/B plug, if you cut of the male end and short the green wire to the black wire then you can power on the PSU just by turning it on. You can connect black wires to neg and yellow to pos for 12V, Black neg and red pos for 5V, black neg and orange pos for 3.3V. If the PSU doesn't regulate properly with no load on the 5V then a bulb or resistor wired to a female molex connector could be made up. Connect the M/B connector (and bulb via molex) and viola - any PC PSU can be used for 12V DC - no need to open the PSU or cut wires or anything.

On the topic of balance leads: I think if Lux wanted to he could create a thread on B/S/T and sell a bunch of these - though I understand not wanting to get into selling these to that degree. But if you want to charge 8 x IMR 26500 cells then a WF-139 will take a while with the limit of only charging 2 at a time, so an 8-cell hobby chargers with magnet leads is a pretty quick and painless way to do it.

I have used my 50W charger to charge 6 NiCd cells for my 6D by stringing them together with magnets, I don't have balance leads yet but it still worked pretty well. Much easier than 2 loads of my 4 cell charger and much faster too.


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## toothy1! (Oct 11, 2009)

I'm new to this......Lux, concerning Li ion batteries, what is the module between the Hyperion unit and the batteries? Is that the balancer? Does it come with the Hyperion charger or is it separate? 

Do the balancing leads follow any order between the batteries? Is it best to charge in series or parallel? Do you sand the magnets for better solder attachment as was stated earlier? When charging, I presume that that balancing leads are always used when charging i.e. with a combo charge/balancing charger. Do all cells being charged at the same time have to be identical cells? Are you selling any magnet/connector harness set-ups? Thanks in advance.


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## smopoim86 (Oct 11, 2009)

toothy1! said:


> I'm new to this......Lux, concerning Li ion batteries, what is the module between the Hyperion unit and the batteries?


That is a balancing controller.


toothy1! said:


> Is that the balancer? Does it come with the Hyperion charger or is it separate?


 It is seperate


toothy1! said:


> Do the balancing leads follow any order between the batteries? Is it best to charge in series or parallel?


there is a set order. There will be a schematic as to how the leads go in the charger manual.


toothy1! said:


> Do you sand the magnets for better solder attachment as was stated earlier?


I dunno on this one.... Lux?


toothy1! said:


> When charging, I presume that that balancing leads are always used when charging i.e. with a combo charge/balancing charger. Do all cells being charged at the same time have to be identical cells?


The cell need to be identical. They should be the same chemistry, and capacity, and should be discharged to close to the same voltage. (the balancer will make sure they are charged evenly per cell, but the balancing controller can only make up for so much difference in cells.)


toothy1! said:


> Are you selling any magnet/connector harness set-ups?


I sure hope he does, or at least some magnet leads so I can make some.:twothumbs


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## toothy1! (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks for the info. Lux shows the Hyperion 1210i charger. Would the 0606i with ac/dc be a better choice? The different number of hobby chargers referenced here and in other posts is rather bewildering. I will probably never have more than 15 or 20 cells laying around unless I become a Flashaholic. Also again, is charging best done in series or parallel?


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## KiwiMark (Oct 12, 2009)

toothy1! said:


> Also again, is charging best done in series or parallel?



With the hobby chargers it is generally done in series. This means that all cells get the same amperage flowing through them, which is why you charge the same type of cells at the same level of discharge at once. With the balance leads all the cells can be individually monitored during charging and small variations can be corrected.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 13, 2009)

smopoim86 said:


> That is a balancing controller.
> 
> It is seperate
> 
> ...


My main charger uses a separate balancing module that goes in between the cells and charger. It can be used as a stand alone balancer (without a charger), working by bleeding off high voltages until they are all equalized (balanced). However, there are some good choices for chargers that have the balance function built into the charger. Couple examples are the Bantam/eStation BC6 (6 Li-Ion cells) or BC8 (8 cells) models. Another is the 4 cell Tenergy/DN balance charger. 

I wanted the Hyperion 1210i because at the time I needed the high number of NiMH cells it would charge, but if not for that, I would have used the BC6 model that has the AC converter built in as a good all around charger. Similarly, KiWiMark has been using the Turnigy Accucel-6 and considering buying the 8 cell model.

You have to realize that most of the "hobby" chargers require a separate 12V power supply as an input source to the charger, including those Turnigy models. There is also a cheaper BC6 model being discussed above that lacks the built in AC adapter.

The bottom line is the balance plug either needs to interface with a separate balance module (like my Hyperion), or with a charger that has the balancing built into it.



smopoim86 said:


> there is a set order. There will be a schematic as to how the leads go in the charger manual.
> 
> 
> toothy1! said:
> ...


As he said, (for simplistic understanding) the balance leads need to follow the cell order, which is why I used all the various colors. Now theoretically, you could put cells in parallel with each other and charge that way. For example, if I had 6 of AW's IMR 18650 cells each with 1600mAh capacity, I could charge them either as 6s this way:








Or, I could connect them with this set of wires, which would make it look like one big 9600mAh capacity single cell to the charger (6 x 1600mAh = 9600mAh) with only main power black/red charger leads connected in the middle of the black/red magnet strings.






The main reason to charge them as single cells is it will be faster to get the 1600mAh put into the 6s cells than the 9600mAh 6p setup.




smopoim86 said:


> I dunno on this one.... Lux?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is always a good idea to prep soldered surfaces, to remove any dirt, oxidation, oils, as well as using a flux. Sanding/Xacto scoring can be used to improve bonding, but not damage magnet conductive coating and brittle property.



smopoim86 said:


> The cell need to be identical. They should be the same chemistry, and capacity, and should be discharged to close to the same voltage. (the balancer will make sure they are charged evenly per cell, but the balancing controller can only make up for so much difference in cells.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There may be some instances where you charge the cells in series several times without balancing them, but you need to know your cells and have a voltmeter available. In other words, if the cells are within 0.05V of each other that is not going to be a significant out of balance issue. Of course it is always safest and best policy to balance charge Lithium Ion cells, but safe chemistry types have less of a down side if they get out of balance. The one rule I think you must not compromise if you are using rechargeable Lithium Ion cells is to check your voltages--at least until you know how your particular cells are behaving together. 


smopoim86 said:


> I sure hope he does, or at least some magnet leads so I can make some.:twothumbs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have made a few sets for people. The nicest thing is to have the right plug that matches your balancer connection plug.


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## CaseyS (Oct 13, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> I have made a few sets for people. The nicest thing is to have the right plug that matches your balancer connection plug.


 
I'd sure be interested in getting a set for the Bantam E-Station BC6 if you decide to offer these for sale.


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## smopoim86 (Oct 17, 2009)

Well, I decided to just go ahead and make my own. I have a nice high end soldering rig. Turns out it wasn't hard at all and the magnets work great. Thanks for the ideal Lux.


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## Mjolnir (Oct 26, 2009)

Would soldering something metal and non magnetic like a washer to the wire and attaching the magnet to that produce similar results? Any idea if it would result in significantly more resistance than if the batteries were soldered directly onto the wires? It seems fairly difficult to solder the magnets without destroying the magnetism, so I would ideally like to have some easier alternative (as no one sells leads like this for some reason).


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## KiwiMark (Oct 26, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> Any idea if it would result in significantly more resistance than if the batteries were soldered directly onto the wires?



I can't see that a little more resistance would be that big a deal for charging.


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## gra123 (Nov 12, 2009)

Hi Lux Just wondering if the Hyperion and bantam estation chargers have the same balance charge connectors/pins


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 12, 2009)

gra123 said:


> Hi Lux Just wondering if the Hyperion and bantam estation chargers have the same balance charge connectors/pins



Yes sir, they do. They are the Korean made Yeonho brand, like this boatload I got shipped direct from Seoul.


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## Flakes (Nov 12, 2009)

Hi Lux,

I have a Hyperion EOS 5idp and an LBA10 6S balancer. I have been looking for a set-up like this for ages to charge several 18650s in series and still use the balancer taps.

Will you consider fabricating a set for me? I can pay using paypal or some other means of your choice.

I am sorry for the public post - I just registered today for sole purpose of this post and cannot seem to PM you (yet).

If you could PM me with details of how to email you directly, that would be great.

Many thanks,
Flakes


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## Benson (Nov 13, 2009)

smopoim86 said:


> You may need to put a load on the 5v rail to use the 12v on the pc psu. Many computer psus will fall out of proper regulation if the 12v is loaded up and nothing else is loaded. A 12v tail light bulb attached to the 5v rail is generally enough. If you look for guides on line, some people use a 10w resistor (i cant remember the resistance) heatsinked to the case of the psu for the fake load.



Come on, this is CPF. Isn't it obvious you should hook up a spare power LED (w/ driver or ballast resistor, obviously).


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 13, 2009)

No PM's can be sent to you.


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## Flakes (Nov 15, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> No PM's can be sent to you.


 
Hi Lux,

Been away the past few days. Just got back.

I finally figured out why I can't send or receive PMs. Apparently, because I'm a new member, I have to make 2 posts which need to be vetted by a mod first.

Hopefully, I'll be able to PM you after this. If you have any other means of contact, please let me know also.

Thanks.

Flakes


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## guiri (Jul 26, 2010)

Alright, let's revive the hell outta this thread 'cause I just found it and I had an idea/suggestion/question.

IF soldering or heat kills the magnet, why not just drill som itty bitty holes in them and screw in/foce some small eye bolts and then you can hook those up anyway you want...would that not work?
I mean, it's not like magnetism is liquid inside a metal case or something...

George


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## ptolemy (Jul 26, 2010)

guiri said:


> Alright, let's revive the hell outta this thread 'cause I just found it and I had an idea/suggestion/question.
> 
> IF soldering or heat kills the magnet, why not just drill som itty bitty holes in them and screw in/foce some small eye bolts and then you can hook those up anyway you want...would that not work?
> I mean, it's not like magnetism is liquid inside a metal case or something...
> ...


 the reason the magnets are protect in nickel or something isinside they are not really metal but some kinda material thats easily crumbles. 

i am pretty sure any kind of drilling, those of laser, will break it apart.


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## guiri (Jul 26, 2010)

Ok but the casing or whatever should hold that in if you drill it shouldn't it?


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 26, 2010)

ptolemy said:


> the reason the magnets are protect in nickel or something isinside they are not really metal but some kinda material thats easily crumbles.
> 
> i am pretty sure any kind of drilling, those of laser, will break it apart.



True. The inside is more like pottery/porcelin and very brittle. Best is to learn to solder them with high, quick heat, after prep surface and use flux.


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## guiri (Jul 26, 2010)

Or do what some here have done, pay YOU to do it 

What about buying battery holders?


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## Justin Case (Jul 27, 2010)

Your typical sintered NdFeB rare earth magnet is very brittle. If you tried to drill a sintered NdFeB magnet, it would undoubtedly break into little pieces. The nickel plate protects the NdFeB from corrosion.

There is plenty of information on the web on soldering to nickel, with plenty of flux and solder products designed for surfaces like nickel to remove the passivating oxide.


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## DM51 (Jul 27, 2010)

If you search for neodymium magnets you should find there are some available with holes through the center to make attaching wires much easier.


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## Justin Case (Jul 27, 2010)

You could also solder directly to the NdFeB magnet, disregarding any issue of killing the magnet from overheating. If you successfully solder to the magnet and retain the magnetic properties, then great. If not, then just take a fresh, good magnet and stick it onto the killed magnet and then attach that whole assembly to your Batt+ or Batt-. The main downside probably is the added contact resistance because of the added interface.

You could also use high operating temp NdFeB magnets, which would make it easier to solder to the magnet without killing it. Standard N grade has an operating temp of 80C. M grade would get you to 100C. If you could get something like H grade, the operating temp spec increases to 120C. SH grade, 150C. UH, 180C. EH, 200C.

Here is one source of SH grade. The D41SH has very typical dimensions of 1/4" diam x 1/16" thick.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 27, 2010)

OK, I'll give out my secrets which I learned through trial and error, since I'm not making these much anymore. 

For main 16 AWG (stranded from CBP) charging leads I use the 1/4" cube N52 which start out much stronger here. (for smaller balance charge harness leads shown in the OP, I use this one.)

I then make sure I have the polarity oriented to attach to a second in making a pair. I lightly abrade soldered side with fine grit sandpaper--too much and you remove the thin nickel plating. 

I only use H&N Electronics #30 blue liquid flux on wire and , Kester 60/40 solder. I turn my Hakko to 750F, pretin the fluxed wire ends; put a thin coating of flux on abraded magnet being held in vice grips (only tightened enought to hold, or you will break the brittle magnet) which also acts as a heatsink, then position tinned wire on flux-coated top side of magnet. 

I build up a nice hanging blob of solder on iron tip and lower down to touch side of wire & magnet. Transfer is almost immediate (not even a full second). I sometimes do a second blob to other side of wire, but no more, and you preserve most of the original magnetism.

Enjoy.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 27, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> OK, I'll give out my secrets which I learned through trial and error



What you describe must work - the magnet leads you made for me certainly stick well to whatever cells I am charging.

Before I got those leads I used to use alligator clip leads and used magnets to hold the alligator clips to the cells - this worked OK, but the magnet leads are better.

I got a couple of chargers from KD that came with a D-cell battery holder that had been cut & extended to be able to hold the longer protected cells, that was rubbish and the hot glue didn't hold it together. They also came with C-cell battery holders which were also rubbish and managed to cut the cover of one of my IMR 26500 cells. The magnet leads are easier and just work regardless of the size of the cells. I use the magnet leads on my 32650 cells and on my 10440 cells. 
They really do work well! :twothumbs :thumbsup:


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## guiri (Jul 28, 2010)

Ok, here's a question then. If they make'em with holes already, how come yall don't use those instead of soldering or is this something new?

Again, I'm just curious here as I may or may NOT try a hobby charger.

Thanks

George


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## guiri (Jul 28, 2010)

Oops, found'em 

http://www.magnet4less.com/index.php?cPath=1_13


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## Justin Case (Jul 28, 2010)

guiri said:


> Ok, here's a question then. If they make'em with holes already, how come yall don't use those instead of soldering or is this something new?
> 
> Again, I'm just curious here as I may or may NOT try a hobby charger.
> 
> ...


 
Examine how this wire harness connects to the cells to be charged. The magnets go in-between the cells and wires come out from each connection. A donut magnet isn't going to help in terms of routing the wires so that the magnet sits flush to each cell. The connecting wire has to go somewhere. A hole in the center of the magnet isn't going to help route the wire. That's why Lux solders the wire to the side of the magnet.

I would get D44SH magnets from here. The SH grade will give you more leeway in terms of heating up the magnet while still retaining the magnetic properties. The larger 1/4" diam x 1/4" tall size will add that much more heat capacity vs the smaller D41SH magnet.


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## guiri (Jul 28, 2010)

Man, there's some slick stuff out there I didn't know about. Trez cool!

Thanks


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 28, 2010)

Justin Case said:


> Examine how this wire harness connects to the cells to be charged. The magnets go in-between the cells and wires come out from each connection. A donut magnet isn't going to help in terms of routing the wires so that the magnet sits flush to each cell. The connecting wire has to go somewhere. A hole in the center of the magnet isn't going to help route the wire. That's why Lux solders the wire to the side of the magnet.
> 
> I would get D44SH magnets from here. The SH grade will give you more leeway in terms of heating up the magnet while still retaining the magnetic properties. The larger 1/4" diam x 1/4" tall size will add that much more heat capacity vs the smaller D41SH magnet.



I did not try the SH magnets, but the N52 are so much stronger than the others, I suspect what little magnetic force you may lose with solder won't be as noticed. Remember it is key to have a big honkin' pair of vicegrips holding onto the little bugger which also acts as a heat wick.

With my technique above, about 5 seconds after removing the iron, and time for the solder to set, I can touch the magnet cube after removal from vicegrips with my fingers, so it is not heating up significantly done this way. The SH may also work just fine...but with the surface prep, flux, and hanging blob of solder, my contact time is no more than half a second to get a secure solder bond.


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## Raoul_Duke (Jul 29, 2010)

The wires broke on my ballance cables, so I used a big dirty soldering iron with heavy solder with goop in the centre and blobbed them back on...not _so_ pretty, but I whittled them down to shape with my small douk douk...


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## Justin Case (Jul 30, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> I did not try the SH magnets, but the N52 are so much stronger than the others, I suspect what little magnetic force you may lose with solder won't be as noticed. Remember it is key to have a big honkin' pair of vicegrips holding onto the little bugger which also acts as a heat wick.
> 
> With my technique above, about 5 seconds after removing the iron, and time for the solder to set, I can touch the magnet cube after removal from vicegrips with my fingers, so it is not heating up significantly done this way. The SH may also work just fine...but with the surface prep, flux, and hanging blob of solder, my contact time is no more than half a second to get a secure solder bond.


 
I've had about a 50% success rate soldering to the small 1/4" diam, 1/16" thick NdFeB magnets. All were solder fluxed, heat sinked, etc etc. The ones that were killed surprised me. My perception was that I was just as quick with the iron with those that got killed as with the ones that retained their mag properties.

Maybe the larger 1/4" diam x 1/4" thick magnets would have a better chance of surviving simply from their larger thermal mass. Haven't tried them, though.

It is true that the N52 has a ~25% higher maximum energy product vs the D44SH (grade N42SH). But the max operating temp is 80C (176F) for the N grade vs 150C (302F) for SH. Which is more important? I don't know. But I do know that heat is the enemy of NdFeB magnets, so my personal preference is to use the grade with a max operating temp consistent with the process.

So next time I will probably get the SH grade magnets simply for the added operating temperature margin, which should allow for some leeway in how fast one might be with the soldering iron. Combine SH grade with a large sized magnet, and I suspect that soldering to the NdFeB magnet could have a high probability of success.

Clearly, either will work. If you are quick with the iron, the K&J Magnetics 1/4" cube B444-N52 is proven to work reliably, as Lux has shown. If you think you may not be quick with the iron, then perhaps the K&J D44SH is the way to go. For quantities less than 25, the D44SH is also 5 cents cheaper per magnet vs the B444-N52.


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## mandrake (Aug 11, 2010)

I sent you a PM about the possibility of getting a harness made up. Not sure if it actually went anywhere. If you have any interest in helping me out, could you send me a PM, please?
Thanks,
Phil



LuxLuthor said:


> With my technique above, about 5 seconds after removing the iron, and time for the solder to set, I can touch the magnet cube after removal from vicegrips with my fingers, so it is not heating up significantly done this way. The SH may also work just fine...but with the surface prep, flux, and hanging blob of solder, my contact time is no more than half a second to get a secure solder bond.


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## Raoul_Duke (Aug 12, 2010)

Raoul_Duke said:


> The wires broke on my ballance cables, so I used a big dirty soldering iron with heavy solder with goop in the centre and blobbed them back on...not _so_ pretty, but I whittled them down to shape with my small douk douk...



I noticed last night that my heavy handed aproach above has left one of the magnets a little less sticky....but happy because still quite useable; Its the end +ve balance lead, but I have a square charging lead to latch that one to; So still enjoying fast charging ~168Wincanhappyness


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## Canuke (Aug 13, 2010)

Why not solder to a tab of something ferromagnetic and then let the unheated magnet do the rest?


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## Ecolang (Aug 13, 2010)

Canuke said:


> Why not solder to a tab of something ferromagnetic and then let the unheated magnet do the rest?



Now there's an extremely sensible idea. Wish I'd thought of that before killing several magnets.


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## pae77 (Aug 13, 2010)

That's probably what I'll end up doing as I'll soon be just starting to learn how to solder so I doubt I would have the requisite skill to avoid killing magnets for some time to come.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 14, 2010)

mandrake said:


> I sent you a PM about the possibility of getting a harness made up. Not sure if it actually went anywhere. If you have any interest in helping me out, could you send me a PM, please?
> Thanks,
> Phil



Sorry, missed that one. Sent PM back.

I have to make some leads for Karlthev, so will wait to hear back.


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## mandrake (Aug 14, 2010)

Response sent. Thanks for the reply!

Phil



LuxLuthor said:


> Sorry, missed that one. Sent PM back.
> 
> I have to make some leads for Karlthev, so will wait to hear back.


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## Scott Packard (Aug 15, 2010)

The other thing I've been thinking about is:
Take an old hard drive magnet and mark one half with a black marker then mark the soldered wire-magnet side that's attracted to the black half with more black marker.
Heat the wire-magnet up to about 300F then hold it black side to the black-half of the old hard drive magnet until it cools. I think it may restore the magnetism in the wire-magnet.

Suppose I could even try the initial solder of the wire while the disc is stuck to the old hard drive magnet. I've been sticking the disc in a smooth-jaw vice to heat-sink the disc as much as possible, or holding it with some Vice-Grips made for bending sheet metal, but an old hard drive magnet would make a pretty good heat sink.


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## mvyrmnd (Aug 15, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> That is a legitimate point, but I got used to charging 20-30s Elite 2/3A NiMH cells with the much thinner magnets which hold them in a straight string.
> 
> However, I also developed this 6p (& made a 12p) setup which can be used to charge as a 'single' cell with large capacity.



I have learned that I do not have sufficient skill with a soldering iron to even attempt such a thing, So I came up with a not quite as tidy but just as effective option.

I soldered a bunch of washers into a string, and used sphere magnets to stick to the batteries.




Of course the main drawback is the 500mA charge current effectively charging a 7800mAh battery.... This is was the first time I've ever left the charger on overnight.


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## KiwiMark (Aug 15, 2010)

mvyrmnd said:


> I soldered a bunch of washers into a string, and used sphere magnets to stick to the batteries.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It looks like you could do with something like: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7028 + any 12V DC power source that can deliver 50W (car battery, computer PSU, this or this). You could then select a charging rate from 0.1A to 6.0A and it would be easy to use with your setup.


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## guiri (Aug 15, 2010)

Ok, I'd like to ask, why are battery holders not used? Is it 'cause they're either only serial or parallel and you want the other or they don't make'em in 18650 size or what?
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-x-4-Black-Pla...ttery-NEW-/220653572814?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0


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## KiwiMark (Aug 16, 2010)

guiri said:


> Ok, I'd like to ask, why are battery holders not used? Is it 'cause they're either only serial or parallel and you want the other or they don't make'em in 18650 size or what?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/1-x-4-Black-Pla...ttery-NEW-/220653572814?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0



That would work fine for charging 4 x AA in series. But I have too many different sized cells so I prefer magnet leads since they work with AAA, AA, C, D sized cells as well as the CR123 sized Li-ions and the 18650 cells. Protected cells are slightly longer and don't always fit in the battery holder designed for that sized cell - i.e. my protected 14500 cells are a little longer than the standard AA size.

Then there is the issue of trying to charge 2 cells or 3 cells or 5 cells when you have a 4 cell holder.
You also need to consider for balance charging you need to be able to connect the balance leads between each cell.

The magnets leads work well and let you use any sized cell you like including less common ones like 25650 cells harvested from powertool battery packs.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 16, 2010)

KiwiMark is correct, the fixed size limitation, and still needing to attach separate balance leads to every interface is a hassle. Another aspect with those type of EBay shown holders is that the springs and wire are crap. In more specific terms, they conduct poorly, have high resistance, heat up, and lead to balance inaccuracy. If you are charging with really low current, it is not as much of an issue.


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## guiri (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks


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## KiwiMark (Aug 16, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> Another aspect with those type of EBay shown holders is that the springs and wire are crap. In more specific terms, they conduct poorly, have high resistance, heat up, and lead to balance inaccuracy. If you are charging with really low current, it is not as much of an issue.



And the C cell holder I got from KD cut into the heatshrink on one of my AW 26500 cells which really annoyed me - the magnets are just better in my opinion.


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## mvyrmnd (Aug 16, 2010)

Same deal with mine. You'll note there's a lot of space between the 18650's. I plan to use this to charge a set of 26650's as well.

Although I might need to look into that hobby charger... 12000mAh's at 500mAh charge rate? :sick2:


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## guiri (Aug 16, 2010)

Just interesting that no one makes a better product..


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 16, 2010)

guiri said:


> Just interesting that no one makes a better product..



It is.  This other thread describes how years ago all of us scoured the world resources, and the best we came up with was this Voltcraft cradle, and while it worked, the magnets are immensely easier with one exception. The A123 (Nano Lithium Iron Phosphate) 26500 cells have a non-magnetic aluminum can, so those need a different solution.


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## guiri (Aug 16, 2010)

Seems like the cradle would be easier though..


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## mandrake (Aug 30, 2010)

Hello LuxLuthor,
I was jsut checking in to see if there was any news on the harneses we were talking about.

I sent a couple of PMs.

Phil


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## southland (Oct 11, 2010)

Hello LuxLuther, please email me if you can make a couple of balancing leads. [email protected] For some reason I can't send PM's, have been a member of this forum for a couple of months now.


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