# Lumileds discontinues luxeon K2 and K2 TFFC



## Lightingguy321 (Oct 5, 2009)

Per the data sheets for the K2/ K2 TFFC and the assembly guide for the K2/K2 TFFC, there is a "Discontinued" water mark on every page of each of the mentioned PDFs. Is this the end of an era? Does this mean the luxeon rebel is Philips last stand against cree and seoul?


----------



## lolzertank (Oct 5, 2009)

Seeing how Cree has chosen to focus on their small (XP) package too, this is nothing surprising. Besides, the Rebel is somewhat more efficient than the K2 and is also much cheaper.


----------



## LED Boatguy (Oct 5, 2009)

Like someone said in another post, I would expect the XR-E to follow. Won't miss em either, with that floating dome and having to bake the warm white ones if they've been out of the packaging too long before reflow soldering.

The Rebel, XP-E and XP-G don't have moisture issues and are cheaper to make.

Technology marches on....


----------



## Gryloc (Oct 6, 2009)

I will miss the old Luxeon and K2, but times moves on. I was hoping that Lumileds would keep a larger type of emitter with their best TFFC die to allow users to run the emitter at higher current levels (like the K2). 

So do manufacturers dislike using higher powered LEDs? I understand that the Rebel is more efficient (the K2 would be equally efficient if they stuck those dies in them), but what about the designers that need only a few high power LEDs? There will be nothing between the Rebel and the Altilon. Does that mean that Lumileds may release a new product? Wouldn't that be cool?!

If Lumileds would create a new product, I wish they could make something like the Rebel (where the die is attached to the alumina substrate) of a larger size (maybe 7mm by 7mm), but there are multiple dies or a single larger die. Since they could solder on to the substrate, then what if they use a thicker copper cladding (with a larger surface area) to work as a heat spreader on the top of the emitter package. They could attach the TFFC die to the thicker cladding just like they would with the Rebel. With this larger heat spreading area, then more heat could transfer vertically through the thin alumina substrate to the heatsink. Maybe as a result, this emitter could be run at higher currents like what the K2 was capable of. It would cost a bit more than the Rebel to manufacture (but may be cheaper than the complex K2 package), but it would fill the gap in size and power levels of emitters (Rebels vs the Altilon). The same package technology and features of the Rebel would be present, but in a scaled up form.


As for Cree, I never liked the use of the ring and dome on the XR-E. Though we adapted (it took me some time), they still used the same design technology as the old XR series. I expected the XP-E to be treated more like a novelty item in comparison (which I was wrong, thinking about the Rebel's practicality). The MC-E is a beast, but it feels frail and I do not like the tiny heat spreader area (slug) on the bottom as it is very narrow. I suspect that the package design is pretty expensive compared to the XR-E (ignoring the dies). However, what if Cree re-used the MC-E package to place a single EZ1000 or EZ1400 (from the XP-G) die in the center? The package could handle the heat of single dies powered at higher current levels with ease, but the package allows for a lambertian radiation pattern. Imagine focusing a high powered and efficient Cree emitter focused nicely behind an old Luxeon reflector/optic?!

Sorry for dreaming, but I can imagine that Lumileds would make a higher current package like the Rebel and XP-E (if they would choose to make something to fill that void). I hope if Cree would discontinue the XR-E package, that they would eventually fit the die in the XP-G in a package like the MC-E or make the XP-G package bigger (scaled up) to handle a higher current density (1A/mm^2 or more).

-Tony


----------



## jtr1962 (Oct 10, 2009)

I'm not surprised. Most of the reason has to do with manufacturing. Packages such as the K2 or MC-E are much harder to work with on an assembly line. The Rebel, XP-E, or XP-G on the other hand can be treated like any other surface mount component. The LED industry seems to be gearing up for mass production of general lighting LEDs. While we all may miss the old packages, time marches on. The only downside for us is that this tiny LEDs are much harder to work with. I had a bear of a time mounting my XP-G for lumen testing. But we'll eventually adapt, and be better for it. Given how much less expensive these new packages are, I think that's a major plus. Getting the cost per lumen down is what it's all about.


----------



## fyrstormer (Oct 10, 2009)

Wow. I'm glad I bought some when I had the chance.


----------



## HarryN (Oct 10, 2009)

In looking at the rebel vs K2, I can kind of see why they did it. At spec currents and up to 1 amp, the rebel meets a large percentage of the market, and their main customers have already made the switch.

There are some applications where the K2 is just unmatched for package, integration, optics, output, and robustness, but apparently this market is not large enough to support the product direction.

I also wonder about a replacement for the power range between the Rebel and Altilon - it is a huge gap. There are much higher thermal conductivity ceramics than alumina which would actually not need a special heat spreader, which is what LEDEngin does. It is not cheap though, as you can see from their package pricing.

There certainly are still K2s out there, and I suspect that you can still get reels of them from Future - the announcement is not - no more production. It is - don't design new products around them.


----------



## nanotech17 (Oct 14, 2009)

lucky that i snap 7 of those K2 TVOD from Fred.


----------



## metlarules (Oct 14, 2009)

LedSupply seems to still have a good supply of K2 TFFC.They have the 220 lumen cool whites and the 200 lumens neutral whites on stars.
http://ledsupply.com/k2star.php


----------

