# Are CR123 Primary Cells Dead?



## dudemar (Jan 2, 2017)

Obviously li-ions have fallen into favor as opposed to CR123 batteries. Even on the battery forum I hardly see any discussion about CR123s. My question is are these once hot commodities now dead?


----------



## Woods Walker (Jan 2, 2017)

dudemar said:


> Obviously li-ions have fallen into favor as opposed to CR123 batteries. Even on the battery forum I hardly see any discussion about CR123s. My question is are these once hot commodities now dead?


I use them during the coldest part of winter.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Jan 2, 2017)

Nope.... they aren't dead yet. I've seen 123 based light reviews here in the forum last year (2016) and even a lantern that takes them. The abundance of 18650s at cheap prices and a lot of good chargers for them plus the onset of AA batteries in both LSD nimh and lithium primaries plus the great increase in LED efficiency and output has pretty much taken away most of the advantage 123 batteries used to have. Sure you can buy a 123 based light that is brighter than a AA light on average but we now even have 14500 based lights that are even more output than a 123 based light.
I think 123s will be around another 5-10 years but if energizer loses its patent stranglehold on lithium AAs it could spell the end of 123s as an option to compete with AA based lighting.


----------



## Rstype (Jan 2, 2017)

Woods Walker said:


> I use them during the coldest part of winter.



I can agree with woods Walker. Having rechargeables does have a good benefit in terms of cost. I still carry primaries though for backup. I don't always carry a charger with me or have the chance to charge the batteries. Especially on days when for work I move quickly from one job to the next.


----------



## staticx57 (Jan 2, 2017)

In any EDC situation I use rechargeables. Primaries cost too much to run all of the time. Not to mention primaries just cannot supply the current rechargeables can if you want bright lights


----------



## swan (Jan 2, 2017)

I think there will always a market for primaries as they offer convenience.

But for me i do not need them and havent purchased any for 5 years as i find rechargables better in every way.


----------



## bykfixer (Jan 2, 2017)

Rechargeables have a large segment of the market and at at a site like this get most of the attention.

But primaries dead? They're not even sick. 

Rechargeables have gotten a lot better, but they are still far from the most reliable fuel method.


----------



## Beamhead (Jan 2, 2017)

Not here I am primarily a primary user.


----------



## ncgrass (Jan 2, 2017)

I have been travelling for the past two years and don't want to carry a charger with me. I stick to CR123 primary batteries as well. Kept in a pelican 1010 with spare o-rings and a switch it's a compact package that'll keep me going with a reliable source for days if need be. I do a lot of camping as well and there's no way I can carry a solar set up due to winter skies and the weight. 

I'd love to get into the rechargeable game but right now it's more of a hassle than I want.


----------



## staticx57 (Jan 2, 2017)

ncgrass said:


> I have been travelling for the past two years and don't want to carry a charger with me. I stick to CR123 primary batteries as well. Kept in a pelican 1010 with spare o-rings and a switch it's a compact package that'll keep me going with a reliable source for days if need be. I do a lot of camping as well and there's no way I can carry a solar set up due to winter skies and the weight.
> 
> I'd love to get into the rechargeable game but right now it's more of a hassle than I want.



Chargers are so incredibly compact and you can even run them off of MicroUSB. I have section hiked the Appalachian Trail numerous times and always brought 18650s. As soon as you switch to rechargeables you will likely never switch back.


----------



## ncgrass (Jan 2, 2017)

I know... But what will I do with my supply of 123's? =O 

I should switch and will but currently only my hds can take rechargeables, but my other lights cant. When I find a place to settle for a while I think I'll start to dabble. I guess I'm ok with CR123 for now, I don't feel the urge to change up what I have too much. 

On a side note, can you point me in the direction of a good Appalachian trail hiking guide/packing list? It's a goal of mine to hike either that or pct and there's an overwhelming amount of stuff out there


----------



## Timothybil (Jan 2, 2017)

The other side of the coin is that a lot of the Li-Ion alternatives to CR123 primaries are protected cells. As such, they have a tendency to just shut off when the cell discharges to that point. Whereas a CR123 will continue to output something until it dies the true death. In cases where one is depending on their light for what could be a life or death situation, I would lean toward using primaries, or more likely, have a light using primaries as my backup, with my main light using Li-Ion. That way I have the economy of using rechargeable cells most of the time, but if I do use a light to the point of shut-off, I will have a second light that I know will work, and not stop dead on me. I think that is why most of the boys currently playing in the sandbox are probably still using primary cells with their lights. I for one would not like to be kicking in doors and clearing a building and have my light suddenly stop on me. That would not be the best time to be changing out cells.

And don't start on the protected/unprotected on me. I think most people would agree that there are still a lot more protected cells out there than there are unprotected. Yes, as more and more users get familiar with rechargeables, and with the increase in low cost high quality smart chargers, the demand for CR123s will diminish. But I don't think it will ever go away. I mean, one can still rather easily find 'B' cells for sale, and the biggest use for them was in tube radios 75 years ago.


----------



## the0dore3524 (Jan 2, 2017)

Still have them...definitely not obsolete. A lot of my flashlights won't take the higher voltage from 16340.


----------



## Swedpat (Jan 3, 2017)

I Would say definitely no. Yesterday I received two 1×CR123 lights. While I have RCR123 cells and 16650 and 18650 for 2xCR123 lights there is always a use for CR123. As backup cells and when it's cold. Buy them at bulk sale and you can get them several times lower price than ordinary store price.


----------



## defbear (Jan 3, 2017)

Two of my Malkoff MDC flashlights will only take CR123's. No RCR123's allowed. CR123's must be made available for that reason alone


----------



## TinderBox (UK) (Jan 3, 2017)

Does anybody know where i can buy approx 10x CR123A cells in the UK (or shipped to the uk if delivery price is low), A good brand that holds it`s charge as these are for emergency use only, I am looking to pay around an £1 a cell, But i have no idea of the prices.

I only use low to medium drain flashlights.

Thanks

John.


----------



## adnj (Jan 3, 2017)

The discharge rate of rechargeable cells is higher than that of primaries. A backup light in an emergency kit should use primaries, too. Combat lights continue to use primaries, also. 

You really want to carry primaries when you travel by air so that you can get through security.


----------



## parnass (Jan 3, 2017)

The flashlights kept in our vehicles are powered by CR123 batteries due to the temperature extremes we encounter.


----------



## vadimax (Jan 3, 2017)

I use rechargeables and carry a Nitecore F1 charger. But I do carry 4 CR123A as well for a SNAFU case 

And there is no issue to discuss about CR123A -- they just work  Price? -- Most of us have their trusted supplier. Period. Personally for me this is eu.nkon.nl. What else?


----------



## Swedpat (Jan 3, 2017)

vadimax said:


> I use rechargeables and carry a Nitecore F1 charger. But I do carry 4 CR123A as well for a SNAFU case
> 
> And there is no issue to discuss about CR123A -- they just work  Price? -- Most of us have their trusted supplier. Period. *Personally for me this is eu.nkon.nl. What else*?



For me too!


----------



## peter yetman (Jan 3, 2017)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Does anybody know where i can buy approx 10x CR123A cells in the UK (or shipped to the uk if delivery price is low), A good brand that holds it`s charge as these are for emergency use only, I am looking to pay around an £1 a cell, But i have no idea of the prices.
> 
> I only use low to medium drain flashlights.
> 
> ...


John,
I've bought a lot of batteries off this seller on Ebay..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/jlsbatteries?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754
I paid 12.99 for 10 Duracell 123a last year.
They are very reliable sellers.
P


----------



## TKC (Jan 3, 2017)

*Nope, they are not dead!! I have been using them for a long time, and plan on continuing to use them.*


----------



## TinderBox (UK) (Jan 3, 2017)

peter yetman said:


> John,
> I've bought a lot of batteries off this seller on Ebay..
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/jlsbatteries?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2754
> I paid 12.99 for 10 Duracell 123a last year.
> ...



Prices have gone up, They sell 10x Panasonic CR123A for £19, Amazon sells the same for £12 i prefer Panasonic after reading a few CR123A reviews.

John.


----------



## skillet (Jan 3, 2017)

Not here in the Berry household.. I'm keeping my light stocked with primaries.. I do have 18650's loaded in the M6 and 16650 in the M4 but about all my others are stocked with primaries with a suitable amount of backup cells. I sell some CR123's to people around me that just don't want to bother with it and make just enough to keep my self stocked with primaries. If push came to shove, I can pull cells from the lights not in rotation. I also have every vehicle light loaded with CR123's, including the C Maglite with Malkoff dropin running on 3-CR123's.


----------



## staticx57 (Jan 3, 2017)

ncgrass said:


> I know... But what will I do with my supply of 123's? =O
> 
> I should switch and will but currently only my hds can take rechargeables, but my other lights cant. When I find a place to settle for a while I think I'll start to dabble. I guess I'm ok with CR123 for now, I don't feel the urge to change up what I have too much.
> 
> On a side note, can you point me in the direction of a good Appalachian trail hiking guide/packing list? It's a goal of mine to hike either that or pct and there's an overwhelming amount of stuff out there



Unfortunately I really can't. If you're planning to thrunhike your list will look vastly different than me with short 1 week or less section hikes. I would imagine you would skip both li-ion and CR123 and use AA. Beyond that you really want shelter, food and a means to cook, sleeping arrangements tent sleeping bag choice, shoes, lightweight pack and water filter.


----------



## Woods Walker (Jan 3, 2017)

ncgrass said:


> I know... But what will I do with my supply of 123's? =O
> 
> I should switch and will but currently only my hds can take rechargeables, but my other lights cant. When I find a place to settle for a while I think I'll start to dabble. I guess I'm ok with CR123 for now, I don't feel the urge to change up what I have too much.
> 
> On a side note, can you point me in the direction of a good Appalachian trail hiking guide/packing list? It's a goal of mine to hike either that or pct and there's an overwhelming amount of stuff out there



Kinda.

I never done a thru hike but have sectioned hiked the AT and hanged out with thru hikers. They most had cellphones and used powerbanks to charge them. Also the number one water purifier/filter on the AT is the Sawyer squeeze (the mini has been rebuked) and smart water bottle, beverage purchased but the bottle shape works well and threads compatible. Most had a headlamp however hiker's midnight comes fast as those 15-20 mile days make yea want to sleep. The Ridgerest and other closed cell pads were popular. Hiking poles are mandatory. 

On a side note Primaries and preps are like peanut butter and jelly though for the last few storms found myself charging powerbanks and batteries before hand.


----------



## subwoofer (Jan 3, 2017)

I can't see any type of common primary cell ever being redundant. There will always be a need for standby or backup cells which don't need checking (beyond reading the BB date).

Primary cells remove the need for chargers, cell matching, worrying about state of charge and cell ageing, have a longer shelf life than a charged cell, and are instantly ready to be used. They also can be abused and sucked completely dry without worrying about damaging the cell for recharging.

For heavy users, it is far cheaper to use rechargeable power options, as long as you can manage the cells and have spares and suitable charging time available. I use both, so when I want cheap and plentiful lumens it is li-ion power, but for EDC and backup/standby, it is primary cells as the first choice.


----------



## markr6 (Jan 3, 2017)

I don't like them, but there's really no alternative to using CR123s in my car light (excluding AA lights using an L91). It sits in temps ranging from -20 to 120°F and sees very little use throughout the year. But it's nice to know that flashlight will work when needed. I've had eneloops loose half their power in about 1 year just sitting in my car. Using 18650s would be my preference, but keeping them in those temperatures is really hard on them.


----------



## bwalker (Jan 3, 2017)

Definitely not! My Fenix PD22UE runs on a single CR123. Although I use 18650 in my other lights, my bug out bag is loaded with CR123 primaries rather than 18650 rechargeable cells.


----------



## ncgrass (Jan 3, 2017)

Cheers woodswalker, always appreciate info like that. And I always enjoy your threads - please keep em up=)

Static - Not sure how I'll do it since its a long term goal. But if you have anything handy for 1 week trips I'd take that too. Pm if it helps keep the thread in topic. 

Thanks for your input!


----------



## etc (Jan 3, 2017)

ncgrass said:


> I have been travelling for the past two years and don't want to carry a charger with me. I stick to CR123 primary batteries as well. Kept in a pelican 1010 with spare o-rings and a switch it's a compact package that'll keep me going with a reliable source for days if need be. I do a lot of camping as well and there's no way I can carry a solar set up due to winter skies and the weight.
> 
> I'd love to get into the rechargeable game but right now it's more of a hassle than I want.



Big plus one.

If you travel, you really don't want to mess with rechargeables. A bunch of 18650 that adds critical weight if you are caving or climbing a mountain. Not only 123 lighter but they are not also not afraid of cold weather. 

Primary 123s will never go away. Unless it's for a bigger primary cell, which is doubtful. Like 18mm.


----------



## dudemar (Jan 3, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Rechargeables have a large segment of the market and at at a site like this get most of the attention.
> 
> But primaries dead? They're not even sick.
> 
> Rechargeables have gotten a lot better, but they are still far from the most reliable fuel method.



I agree. It seems dead on this forum because rechargeable are so prevalent. I remember in the past all the talk was about CR123s, and what brands were the best.

I tried selling my Rayovac CR123s but for the life of me can't sell them. I sold my Energizer Lithium L91s on here no problem, those things sold like hot cakes.


----------



## MichaelW (Jan 3, 2017)

No, but 18650s could be dead by 2020.
If computer manufacturers no longer use them. If car manufacturers has no need for them. If rechargeable tools move to something else.


----------



## bykfixer (Jan 3, 2017)

dudemar said:


> I agree. It seems dead on this forum because rechargeable are so prevalent. I remember in the past all the talk was about CR123s, and what brands were the best.
> 
> I tried selling my Rayovac CR123s but for the life of me can't sell them. I sold my Energizer Lithium L91s on here no problem, those things sold like hot cakes.



Rayovac batteries get a bad rap here too. But they are just as good those copper bunnies and their lithiums are made in the same assembly line as SureFires, Panasonic, and those others.

I'll pm you about 'em.


----------



## dudemar (Jan 3, 2017)

Hi bykfixer,

PM Replied!

Thanks!


----------



## RedLED (Jan 3, 2017)

They will be around for a long while, billions and billions of products owned by people run off them, they will be here long past 2020 - that's only three years.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Jan 3, 2017)

MichaelW said:


> No, but 18650s could be dead by 2020.
> If computer manufacturers no longer use them. If car manufacturers has no need for them. If rechargeable tools move to something else.


I don't think 18650s will be any more dead than RCR123s and 14500s and 10440s are as they pack more power for the size than those batteries do making them essentially the smallest more efficient battery size so unless they make a more powerful smaller battery nothing can compete with the 18650 in that category.


----------



## dudemar (Jan 4, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Rayovac batteries get a bad rap here too. But they are just as good those copper bunnies and their lithiums are made in the same assembly line as SureFires, Panasonic, and those others.
> 
> I'll pm you about 'em.



Thank you so much, you made me one happy camper!!!


----------



## Woods Walker (Jan 4, 2017)

RedLED said:


> They will be around for a long while, billions and billions of products owned by people run off them, they will be here long past 2020 - that's only three years.



The world was supposed to end on May 21, 2011 so we are on borrowed time. The end of 18650 will be on May 21, 2020. Mark this post!


----------



## bykfixer (Jan 4, 2017)

dudemar said:


> Thank you so much, you made me one happy camper!!!



Same here bro. Same here. My stockpile had reached single digits so this is right on time.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix (Jan 5, 2017)

CR123A primaries aren't dead, but I am definitely using less now that I have some Orbtronic 2500 mAh 16650s. These batteries replace 2 123A cells and only cost me $7.75 each for protected cells. They last longer as well in anything that can handle the lower voltage. If they were smart enough to make these with a boost circuit built in to bump up the voltage to 6 volts, very few 2 cell 123A lights would still be using primaries except in very cold weather. Some of the newer 18650 cells are regulated, so it shouldn't be that difficult to do that. Rechargeable 123A cells could likewise have a buck circuit to drop the voltage to a regulated 3 volts while keeping a higher power density compared to some lithium polymer cells. Fenix is starting to make cells like this in AA size that are USB rechargeable. I think we are going to start seeing more modified cells with circuitry built in to bring the cell to the correct voltage of batteries it should be used to replace. When this becomes more mainstream, CR123As will rarely be used.


----------



## bykfixer (Jan 5, 2017)

The more stuff they put in rechargeables to make them do all those things people want... the more stuff that can fail, which, at least to this user will cause me to continue using primaries.


----------



## LeanBurn (Jan 5, 2017)

CR123 cells are only alive to those that use them. In Canada where cost and availability are an issue, the CR123 are pretty scarce, in some other than camera stores and a drug store perhaps. 
Furthermore, to those like me that don't have a single device that uses them they aren't even on the radar, nor will they ever be.


----------



## Launch Mini (Jan 5, 2017)

LEOs use a ton of primaries. They can't worry about taking batteries back to be recharged, storing etc. Just swap and go.
As said above, primaries fade slowly, so with them, the LEO are not left in lurch in total darkness.
So they will be around a long while.


----------



## recDNA (Jan 5, 2017)

CR123a still my battery of choice.


----------



## chillinn (Jan 5, 2017)

CR123A can't be dead, because 16340 secondaries cannot replace them for at least a couple reasons. First of all, cost. It is not exactly clear (as it is with AA primaries and NiMH) that the better value is in secondaries, because they are expensive and fragile. CR123A are still kind of cheap, so a test case of running an E1E for 10 hours would probably cost less than $10 for 10 primary cells. However, running the same light (with a lamp that can handle it) with 4.2V 16340 for the same period will take 3 cells per hour, and even if the brightness is nicer, you're going through 30 cells in 10 hours at an initial cost of around $200 (for quality cells, like AW IMR). Over the life of those secondaries, assuming you baby them, you can get 500 recharges, but that takes time (and time is money, but we don't calculate it into the cost for some reason) and ultimately the lifetime cost should settle for around half the cost of primary (not counting time). So it's a real puzzle that depends on the use case. However, if you're on the fence about whether to run primaries or secondaries, the fail safe is to run primaries for low initial cost of investment, and safety.


----------



## vicv (Jan 6, 2017)

Depends on how long you've been using them and in which light. I have 2 in a light I out in a couple days ago and it's nice and bright. They're not dead


----------



## markr6 (Jan 6, 2017)

Don't most of those trail cams hunters use take CR123? No way I would put li-ion rechargeables in those things that sit out in -50° to 120° weather 24/7.

After a quick search I see some take the AA size, so L91s are an option.


----------



## ncgrass (Jan 8, 2017)

vicv said:


> Depends on how long you've been using them and in which light. I have 2 in a light I out in a couple days ago and it's nice and bright. They're not dead


I just rolled my eyes and chuckled at the same time, vicv... Awful joke, but well done, you made me laugh


----------



## vicv (Jan 8, 2017)

Thanks. Ya it was pretty bad


----------



## StorminMatt (Jan 9, 2017)

It depends on what you mean by CR123's being 'dead'. Once upon a time, they were the 'go to' battery thpe if you wanted a small and powerful light. After all, it was CR123 or alkaline. So if you wanted lots of lumens in a small package, CR123's were the only game in town. But since then, they have been FAR surpassed by both rechargeable Li-Ion and even NiMH. In this day and age of 500 lumen 1xAA lights and 18650 lights that put out LOTS more, CR123 lights are dead as far as being on the cutting edge of performance. However, they are NOT dead in the sense thay they still have their niche uses. As mentioned by others here, they have advantages such as low temperature operation and the ability to retain a charge for long periods of time. Beyond these things, some people might like them because of the fact that they don't need to worry about chargers or because they like the form factor of the lights. All of these are valid reasons for some to stick with the format. But for the rest of us, rechargeables just make more sense. Especially since they are stronger performers, they are reusable, and since a brand new quality unprotected 18650 is actually CHEAPER than a CR123 from a typical retail store.


----------



## dennck (Jan 9, 2017)

I believe CR123A primaries are being used much less now but far from dead. I load most of my flashlights with rechargeables just like most users do but I also load one with CR123A's for emergency standby. It works every time when I need it most.


----------



## mbw_151 (Jan 21, 2017)

I'm pretty sure that the military will keep 123s alive for a long time. I think the 6P is still on the NSN list along with those new fangled LED lights.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 22, 2017)

LeanBurn said:


> CR123 cells are only alive to those that use them. In Canada where cost and availability are an issue, the CR123 are pretty scarce, in some other than camera stores and a drug store perhaps.
> Furthermore, to those like me that don't have a single device that uses them they aren't even on the radar, nor will they ever be.



CR123's in Canada are cost effective and plentiful if you know where to look. I just received 4 dozen. The form factor of a typical 2 cell 123 cell light makes for a comfortable light with the features I like. For folks that enjoy the hobby and playing around with lights, rechargeable makes alot of sense, but for my applications, primaries see the most use. I do dabble with the rechargeable cells for my Malkoffs and driving P90/91, LF style lamps.


----------



## etc (Jan 22, 2017)

Li-Ions are expensive and heavy and bulky. Not everyone is in a position to recharge. CPF is a very small community given the rest of the world. If the dot mil goes on a mission, 123s are clearly the choice since can you image them dragging back 18650 back to the base to recharge. 

123s are very light and disposable and compact.

In a pinch, you can smash one with a rock to smart a fire if your lighter is misplaced.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Jan 22, 2017)

etc said:


> Li-Ions are expensive and heavy and bulky. Not everyone is in a position to recharge. CPF is a very small community given the rest of the world. If the dot mil goes on a mission, 123s are clearly the choice since can you image them dragging back 18650 back to the base to recharge.


No, Li-ions aren't expensive as you don't figure the expense of batteries entirely on the initial cost but rather cost over the life of the battery (many charge cycles). If you compare the cost of 1-3 18650s and a charger with the cost of 15-25 CR123s they may cost the same but the fact is you can get 50-100 charge cycles from the 18650s which means just 1 of them in the long run would pay for ALL your CR123s 2-3 times over in use. As for the heavy/bulky unless you are using a single CR123 based light with NO spare batteries, I agree an 18650 is heavier and bulkier but once you go to 2 cells then an 18650 isn't much bigger than 2 CR123s yet matches capacity and weighs about less than 50% more than the 2 123s it replaces as 2x123 weigh about 34g while an 18650 weighs about 40-45g. Essentially for a little extra weight and negligible volume you could carry an 18650 light and a spare 18650 instead of a single or double cr123 light and 4 total batteries for it. 


> 123s are very light and disposable and compact.


Another difference is that when you do get home you can recharge the 18650 batteries again and again and even just top them off and know you have 100% runtime while once you use 123s you have to keep track of how much runtime they have otherwise you either have to put new batteries in them to start, change batteries more often when they die, and perhaps manage a bunch of half depleted 123s and when they are depleted you have to dispose of them over and over... 50 of them perhaps to a single 18650. 


> In a pinch, you can smash one with a rock to smart a fire if your lighter is misplaced.


In a pinch you could use steel wool or a small piece of wire to start a fire with an 18650 or just carry a lighter.


----------



## bykfixer (Jan 22, 2017)

etc said:


> Not everyone is in a position to recharge. CPF is a very small community given the rest of the world. If the dot mil goes on a mission, 123s are clearly the choice since can you imagine them dragging back 18650 back to the base to recharge?
> 
> 123s are very light and disposable and compact.



Well put.


----------



## nightshade (Jan 22, 2017)

I like the long term shelf stability of the CR123 cell. These Panasonic cells have a date of 01/2000 and have been stored in Chicago,until this month, in a non climate controlled workspace for decades. A ZTS test indicates 60% capacity.







Now, I'm not a battery snob, tint snob, pwm snob, manufacturer snob, low light snob, constant current snob, user interface snob or other snob. I just like things that serve a purpose and accomplish a task with minimal fuss. In the very early 90's a dive shop salesman informed me I probably would not be able to source CR123 for my Tekna light in the next century.:thinking:


----------



## martinaee (Jan 22, 2017)

Well I guess most of the lights I have can use them, but I only own them as emergency back-ups. It's really nice that they have such a long shelf life. It means you can save up and buy a few boxes then if there ever were a long term power outage or say the entire grid went down for some apocalyptic reason you'd have light for a long time. Even for AA lights it's nice that you can do that with the high quality L19s.


----------



## etc (Jan 23, 2017)

nightshade said:


> I like the long term shelf stability of the CR123 cell. These Panasonic cells have a date of 01/2000 and have been stored in Chicago,until this month, in a non climate controlled workspace for decades. A ZTS test indicates 60% capacity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




DAte 01/2000 is that manufacture date or expiration date?


I assume the latter, just wanted to make perfectly clear.


----------



## etc (Jan 23, 2017)

* No, Li-ions aren't expensive as you don't figure the expense of batteries entirely on the initial cost but rather cost over the life of the battery (many charge cycles) *

I know that but you are taking this out of context of the point I was making. They are expensive for 1-time use for someone who is travelling, not in a position to recharge, not in a position to carry used-up cells, needs lightest possible gear with the idea of discarding cells that are not needed anymore. 

Many situations exist where Li-Ion is the wrong solution, even though I realize, they work really well 95% of the time. 

Dot mil does not care about cost-saving for example. They still hand out Surefire 6P with incan bulbs and a trainload of 123s at many places. Today in 2017. Tax payer based gear so who gears about recharging? When the stuff is free.


----------

