# WL, is this a confession



## comozo (Apr 22, 2006)

WL will be an exhibitor at the Photonics show in France. On the WL website Nexus states:
"We have been working on making our products compliant for retail sales in Europe and USA,..."

Is this their way of admitting they were thumbing their nose at the laws governing Europe and the US.
I wonder why they finally decided to do this.To read more.
http://forum.wickedlasers.com/viewtopic.php?t=3177


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## LaserFreak (Apr 22, 2006)

Maybe the FDA leaned on them a little harder than they thought they could.


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## Entity (Apr 22, 2006)

Well actually they are just trying to make their lasers compliant for RETAIL within the US. They are trying to set up a branch within the US but they are not allowed to yet because their products don't comply. This is why they originaly were located in the US but had to move to china. Nexus never said he was trying to make it legal to import his lasers into the US. They don't have a problem with this even if it is illegal which I don't believe It is. They are allowed to import them because they are OEM modules which do not have to comply with the safety regulations.


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## comozo (Apr 23, 2006)

Entity said:


> Well actually they are just trying to make their lasers compliant for RETAIL within the US. They are trying to set up a branch within the US but they are not allowed to yet because their products don't comply. This is why they originaly were located in the US but had to move to china. Nexus never said he was trying to make it legal to import his lasers into the US. They don't have a problem with this even if it is illegal which I don't believe It is. They are allowed to import them because they are OEM modules which do not have to comply with the safety regulations.



WL move out of the US to avoid the fines that could have been levied against them because their products were not FDA compliant. Compliant for retail = FDA compliancy. Entity, below are links that show what OEM lasers look like and links that show what non-OEM lasers look like.
OEM Laser Modules:
http://www.midwest-laser.com/html/laser_diode_modules.html
http://www.lasermate.com/RedIRmodule.html
Non-OEM lasers:
http://www.lasermate.com/LS11.html
http://www.laserpointer.net/


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## jellyfish414 (Apr 23, 2006)

The folks who claim WL's lasers are legal because they're "OEM" obviously have no clue what the heck OEM means.

OEM means the device is to be used inside another product (i.e., red lasers are used in DVD players, computers, etc). What kinds of products are WL's lasers being used in? :naughty: NONE! So they're not OEM.

WL's products are illegal in the USA, and they know it. In fact, according to their forum, they now have to ship their Spyders in 2-3 seperate packages to avoid detection by customs. But I doubt their legal troubles will slow them as much as their own products do: by many of their customers' accounts, most of these lasers arrive malfunctioning or broken.


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## wondergimp (Apr 23, 2006)

jellyfish414 said:


> by many of their customers' accounts, most of these lasers arrive malfunctioning or broken.


Yeah, there shipping could be better. Many of the problems that users find, have arised from the shipping. However, in WL defense, you only hear about the bad problems that arise because of the fact that they have a forum. I am positive that if other laser companies provided a forum, you would hear a lot more about their problems too.
If you can't tell, I am a supporter of WL, and don't enjoy visiting this forum because most of the users are dealers and competitors of WL. Anything that will draw customers away from WL, they will say. That said, this is why I don't post much on this forum, because I am sick of hearing the muckraking laser competitors bashing WL.


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## Athoul (Apr 24, 2006)

I completely agree, you always hear more of the bad then the good, especially if the company has its own forum!

In fact I've talked to more then a few people that have had the same problems with all the other companies out there. Lasers are delicate and things happen in shipping, it doesn't matter what company it is. WL has improved their shipping methods, though they wern't that great at one point.

There is no law anywhere that says any laser of any class is illegal to own for your own personal use, regardless of safety features or not. This only applies if you are selling them or using them commerically, that's it. Of course to buy certain class 4 lasers you will need an affidavit signed by lawyer to even get one in your hands.

As for OEM.. well I don't consider any of these portable lasrs OEM unless they came completely dissasembled. However that being said, I suppose you could incorporate a laser into something of your design. Though this is a stretch.


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## Raccoon (Apr 24, 2006)

How is one expected to hear anything bad about WL unless they come here? The WL moderators delete every negative post on their forums-- so his customers come here to vent instead.

It's not about competitors, it's about conducting a legitimate business which WL does not. The sole owner/operator of Wicked Lasers is 22 years old, and fled the United States to avoid prosecution. What does that say about your precious WL? Dare you to mention it on his own forums. At least the moderators don't get paid at CPF!

Lets not forget that he charges twice as much what _his_ (and i use that word loosely) lasers are worth. I mean, come on...


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## comozo (Apr 24, 2006)

WL has always stated that there lasers are legal to own and that is true here in the US, what they forget to mention is that their lasers without the prerequisite FDA safety features are not legal for importation that's the distinction. And now, they want to play by the rules, what is one to think other than they've know this all along. WL calling there products OEM is not a stretch it is obfuscation of the term. 
Athoul, I'm still looking for WL's apology for using the Bemeyer's combat video[which I do not expect to see] and claiming it as there own. Just one the devious business practices of theirs. All companies have dissatisfied customers that not the point. What is the point are the less than upfront business practises, no other company that I'm aware of does these things that's why WL gets the bad press. I'm not a customer.


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## Kiessling (Apr 24, 2006)

Just a general advise ... aimed at no one in particular ... I think it would be great if we could avoid a train-wreck and discuss the issues at hand without bashing WL or attacking the poster instead of the post.
bernhard


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## jellyfish414 (Apr 24, 2006)

> WL has always stated that there lasers are legal to own and that is true here in the US, what they forget to mention is that their lasers without the prerequisite FDA safety features are not legal for importation that's the distinction.



This is actually not true. When this was a larger topic a few months ago I contacted someone at the CDRC/FDA to ask about this loophole (that it's legal to own but not to buy or sell in the USA). I was told that no such loophole exists.

When you buy from WL or any overseas vendor, you are considered the manufacturer upon entry into the United States. You are responsible for ensuring it meets legal requirements. If it does not, you can be punished. 

I don't know how the rumor of such a legal loophole got started, but from what I was told, it is definitely illegal to possess a >5mW laser in the USA without it having the proper IIIb safety features. If you try to import an illegal item, the onus is on you and not the seller.

So the truth is that WL is actually not breaking any laws, but their USA customers are. However, I do believe WL is breaking ethical codes of conduct by being less than honest about this.


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## wondergimp (Apr 24, 2006)

Raccoon said:


> The sole owner/operator of Wicked Lasers is 22 years old, and fled the United States to avoid prosecution. What does that say about your precious WL?


 


wondergimp said:


> Anything that will draw customers away from WL, they will say.


 
Point made. Must I say more?


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## Athoul (Apr 24, 2006)

I had contacted CDRH along with a couple of other individuals. There is nothing that says it is legal or illegal to own any power of laser in your own home for your own personal use. When questioned on this, the person was not sure what to say, only that there were laws for commercial use and selling of them.

Now I'm not saying that there is 100% no law agaisnt it and I used to think it was illegal also as I have worked with lasers for over 12 years. However thus far not a single document regarding this has been able to be found or shown to me. When I've asked about them, the CDRH FDA etc all don't have anything on the personal use and ownership of these lasers.

Infact you could have a 1000Watt co2 or YAG laser in your home without any safety features whatsoever and it's not against any laws.

If you can show me a link or a page that says anything regarding the onwership of any highpowered laser for personal use I'll gladly change my position. However thus far with 12 years in the field, I have seen nothing written anywhere regarding personal use.

Even as the manufacturer, as long as you do not sell it or use it commercially. I'm unaware of laws saying anything about it being illegal. Once you sell or use it commercially it has to comply with CDRH.

So as long as no laws exist specifically against it, it is not illegal.


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## Kiessling (Apr 24, 2006)

wondergimp ... actually, it would have been better if you had said less. If you cared to read what I posted to posts above yours you might have noticed that I was trying to avoid a trainwreck. An essential part of this tactic is avoiding attacks on posters instead of posts and displaying negative attitude towards anyone instead of backing up one's position with arguments.
Please adjust your posting style. Thank you.
bernhard


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## wondergimp (Apr 24, 2006)

Sorry Kiessling, I should have held back. I just get a bit frustrated sometimes, I'll do better in the future.


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## David_Campen (Apr 24, 2006)

> but from what I was told, it is definitely illegal to possess a >5mW laser in the USA without it having the proper IIIb safety features.


Did you happen to ask in what section of the Code of Federal Regulations this is specified? I sort of doubt that it exists.

If I buy a YAG rod, flashtube, power supply, etc. and construct a 10 watt laser in my garage I sort of think that there would not be any federal law against this.


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## Chief117 (Apr 24, 2006)

I don't think that "Its not illegal to HAVE class 3b lasers" is an argument in WL's defense, because the only way that you could have one without buying it is to build it, which would be legal. Or, you could buy the pieces and make it yourself which would also be legal. The fact of the matter is that if it doesn't have the required safety features, its not legal. The government doesnt care about "loopholes". Loopholes are for court, not for these types of issues.   . TECHNICALLY, the thing that makes the spyders legal is the fact that it has a battery compartment that it wont work without. So TECHNICALLY, you are buying a laser in pieces. If it didnt have that feature, it wouldnt be illegal. But that isnt a loophole.


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## pb_paulie_b (Apr 24, 2006)

Is the WL site down or is it my computer only?


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## comozo (Apr 24, 2006)

Site's been down for hours,maybe the chinese government closed them down.


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## comozo (Apr 24, 2006)

I do not know nor have I heard of any federal laws that states it is against the law for an individual to purchase or own a class 3b laser. This document defines a laser manufacturer as:
"Class IIIb hand-held lasers are too dangerous for use as pointers or amusement articles. Furthermore, promotion of Class IIIb or IEC Class 3B products for pointing or amusement violates FDA requirements and United States law. Manufacturers of such products may be required to repair, replace, or refund the purchase price of violative products distributed in the U.S."

As you can see someone that buys a class 3b laser is not the one that constructed the laser for retail sales. Someone that buys a laser cannot refund, repair, or replace the laser they purchased.

Any company that promotes their laser for pointing cutting, burning etc. is in violation.

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/radhlth/lpm.html


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## comozo (Apr 24, 2006)

Chief117 said:


> I don't think that "Its not illegal to HAVE class 3b lasers" is an argument in WL's defense, because the only way that you could have one without buying it is to build it, which would be legal. Or, you could buy the pieces and make it yourself which would also be legal. The fact of the matter is that if it doesn't have the required safety features, its not legal. The government doesnt care about "loopholes". Loopholes are for court, not for these types of issues.   . TECHNICALLY, the thing that makes the spyders legal is the fact that it has a battery compartment that it wont work without. So TECHNICALLY, you are buying a laser in pieces. If it didnt have that feature, it wouldnt be illegal. But that isnt a loophole.



Spyders/ battery compartment does not equal legal it's not a technicallity either. It is a plug and play item no different than a laser system used for a light show.


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## jellyfish414 (Apr 25, 2006)

You can call it whatever you want, but it's obvious the FDA doesn't want untrained folks to be using >5mw lasers. To say it's legal to own one, but not to buy or sell, sounds like a loophole to me. 

I don't know of any laws regarding an external battery compartment. But the Spyder is illegal because it lacks the appropriate safety features and FDA approval for a laser of its power. This is the same reason all their other lasers are illegal.

Here is a copy of an email an FDA official sent me a couple months ago. I don't have the person's permission to print his name, so I won't. If you'd like the name, PM me and I'll supply it to you. If you want to contact them, be prepared for a wait: I called and emailed, and waited about 3 weeks for a response.



> Your suspicion is correct that
> laser pointers over 5mW output power do not comply with FDA regulations.
> We've posted the following information on the web regarding general internet
> sales of laser products (http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/comp/internetlasers.html),
> ...


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## cbfull (Apr 25, 2006)

jellyfish414 said:


> The folks who claim WL's lasers are legal because they're "OEM" obviously have no clue what the heck OEM means.
> 
> OEM means the device is to be used inside another product (i.e., red lasers are used in DVD players, computers, etc). What kinds of products are WL's lasers being used in? :naughty: NONE! So they're not OEM.


Just to add to this, since no one else has mentioned it, "OEM" stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer.


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## comozo (Apr 25, 2006)

Jellyfish'es post is right. Too clarify one point more about battery operated handheld portable lasers class 3b.
From the FDA document: Important Information for Laser Pointer Manufacturers

"Can battery-operated, portable laser systems be sold in the U.S?

Yes, battery-operated, portable laser systems can be sold in the U.S., providing that they fully comply with the standard, are certified and reported, and are not Class IIIb lasers sold or promoted for pointing or amusement purposes."

Too elaborate the above text a bit more. Any laser seller that has on their site videos of burning, pointing or any image that might imply the fun stuff you can do with a class 3b laser is in violation. Any wording to that affect is also in violation of US law. 
On the other hand the federal governmant has no jurisdiction on foreign companies so the only recourse they have is prevent entry or to seize the product and obviously the same cannot be said for companies within the US even those that are foreign owned. That's at least one reason the owner of WL moved the operation to China.


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## LaserFreak (Apr 25, 2006)

I'll tell you one thing..I'm glad I don't own a WL...WAY too much heat.


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## Corona (Apr 26, 2006)

It's not just WL guys, and it's certainly _not_ rubbish. This is dead serious and if a particular manufacturer is publicly in denial of receiving any warnings, they are only trying to mitigate customer paranoia and keep the cash flowing their way.

See these links, and note the legitimacy implied by the site:

http://www.fda.gov/ora/fiars/ora_import_ia9504.html

http://www.fda.gov/foi/warning_letters/g5694d.htm

This does lend credence to a recently closed thread. Note there may be other sources/companies targeted by the FDA, this is only the result of one arbitrary web search.

Admins/mods please note I am not in any way trying to re-kindle any flames, just bringing some intelligence and logic to the discussion in an attempt to bring closure to the debate of the existance of these (public) documents... [/disclaimer]


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## Kiessling (Apr 26, 2006)

corona said:


> Admins/mods please note I am not in any way trying to re-kindle any flames, just bringing some intelligence and logic to the discussion in an attempt to bring closure to the debate of the existance of these (public) documents... [/disclaimer]



Any sincere and logical as well as informative discussion about such an important topic is encouraged. All those threads aren't closed because of the topib but because of burning flames, ad hominem attacks and agenda mongering.

bernhard


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## dr_lava (Apr 26, 2006)

good find, corona. it amazes me that WL hasn't followed the requirements yet. Doing so woun't substantially increase the component cost of these laser systems. Add a key interlock, a remote control port (dry contacts), a shutter, and a turn-on delay, change the website some, and a sticker, and they are good to go, legally. It seems there is some 'up yours' angst over there that is keeping him from doing so, but I guess it's clear.. either do it, or lose US business.


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## jellyfish414 (Apr 26, 2006)

> It seems there is some 'up yours' angst over there that is keeping him from doing so, but I guess it's clear.. either do it, or lose US business.



I don't think it's an "up yours" as much it is a lack of resources and know-how. The fact is, he's not making a big enough splash to really get cracked down on. He's small enough to fly under the radar so to speak, and since the company is based in China he can probably bring in enough revenue to have a decent lifestyle. If he were to invest the resources necessary to bring the lasers up to code I doubt he'd see a significant increase in sales.


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## Corona (Apr 26, 2006)

Nobody is talking about _gaining sales_ by being legal, the issue at hand is facing _ZERO sales_ by virtue of being _illegal_. All of nothing is a whole lot less than _any_ percent of something. 

I agree that it is a very competitive market and one that targets a cost-conscious consumer, e.g. price wars are quite evident. But that is a poor excuse for blatantly breaking the laws of the _largest single marketplace_. It's a bad business practice, and although I sympathise with small business owners in general, I cannot find such sympathy for any entity who pleads ignorance of the law, or those who choose to shave costs by, for example, eliminating output power calibration (if these devices were all trimmed to <5mW, and consistently entered the USA legally, _this would be a non-issue_.

Obviously, there is a BIG difference (safety-wise) between an illegal 6mW pointer and an illegal 50mW pointer. And I am reasonably sure that the FDA is not busting the manufacturers for the occassional "couple mW over" pointer. It's the escalation of power that has brought their wrath, and rightly so.

The "binning" and/or modding and subsequent, shameless resale of higher efficiency (higher output power) pointers at a premium is the worst case of brass balls I've seen in any market in a long time. 

I have no problem paying more for a quality laser device with the required interlocks etc. that come with higher power and increased responsibility. I do, however, have a Big Problem with 10 year-old kids (or 40-year old neophytes) shining 50mW pointers around with abandon...THAT is the kind of thing that drives the FDA to react, NOT the educated amateur laser scientist types using them with caution and All Due Respect. Remember that the FDA is protecting us from _one another_, and not so much protecting us from ourselves. *Only we can do that*.

The reasons for these behaviors are immaterial, the fact is that these practices ARE illegal, and for good reasons, whether we (as end users) like it or not. Bottom line is that these manufacturers have used up their quota of breaks - and it's time to play by the rules.



comozo said:


> We have been working on making our products compliant for retail sales in Europe and USA,..."
> <--clip-->
> I wonder why they finally decided to do this.


 Because zero sales is a scary enough proposition to get their attention!


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## comozo (Apr 26, 2006)

jellyfish414 said:


> I don't think it's an "up yours" as much it is a lack of resources and know-how. The fact is, he's not making a big enough splash to really get cracked down on. He's small enough to fly under the radar so to speak, and since the company is based in China he can probably bring in enough revenue to have a decent lifestyle. If he were to invest the resources necessary to bring the lasers up to code I doubt he'd see a significant increase in sales.



I remember reading text within that site the wording was such that it left no room for misinterpretation as to their philosophy regarding the laws of other countries. UP YOUR'S is appropriate.  The text seems to have been removed.


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## Dustin Liu (Apr 26, 2006)

http://www.midwest-laser.com/html/l...de_modules.html


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## Corona (Apr 26, 2006)

Dustin Liu said:


> <link to a site that clearly states FDA/CDRH classifications for all their products and sells module-level stuff that 10-year olds can't pop a pair of AAA batteries into and blind their neighbor's dog>


 Seems a decent supplier with the "prosumer" in mind...


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## Entity (May 21, 2006)

How is this for an OEM use of wickedlasers? http://lasers.musicfoxaudio.com/byoshow2.htm


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## Raccoon (May 21, 2006)

It's cute, but it'll burn out within 10 minutes, 30 tops.


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## Entity (May 23, 2006)

What do you mean burn out? The diode? You still have to follow the duty cycle and it works fine. Several people have made them and Boomdog is using his for a fourth of july show.


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## Raccoon (May 23, 2006)

Nobody wants a "10 second on / 60 second off" light show.


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## wondergimp (May 24, 2006)

Raccoon said:


> Nobody wants a "10 second on / 60 second off" light show.


Uh..what laser are you speaking of?? The WL's duty cycle is 100 sec on/ 10 sec off. The WL 95 I own, can be left on for much longer than 100 secs, it can be left on closer to 140 secs.


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## Athoul (May 24, 2006)

Actually it can be left on for several minutes withouth harm, though they will not suggest it. I believe most other pen style lasers can also, unless they are modded.


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## Raccoon (May 24, 2006)

Are you saying WL lasers are not modded?

Simple terms of physics: Higher outputs release higher heat. Higher heat requires greater time to dissapate. A laser diode, of any output, is equally sensitive to heat. None of WL's pointers contain fans or heatsinks of any kind.

The runtime on a 120mW pointer is close to 10 seconds ON, 60~120 seconds OFF depending on ambient room temperature. Anything less and your diode is sizzling in bacon grease. You will notice delayed brightness and increased instability after a few weeks or months of abuse.


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## pixar (May 24, 2006)

WL's are supposed to not be modded - they are suppsoed to use high power diodes and chosen (selected) best-of-breed-in-the-price-range conversion crystals / optics / filters.

This may not always be the case - but that I believe it's what they claim and the reason for the higher prices - or is it?


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## wondergimp (May 24, 2006)

WL used to sell modded lasers, but now they're market has changed. Now the lasers they sell are not modded, and very stable, that is, in the case of my unit.


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## alaskawolf (May 24, 2006)

dr_lava said:


> good find, corona. it amazes me that WL hasn't followed the requirements yet. Doing so woun't substantially increase the component cost of these laser systems. Add a key interlock, a remote control port (dry contacts), a shutter, and a turn-on delay, change the website some, and a sticker, and they are good to go, legally. It seems there is some 'up yours' angst over there that is keeping him from doing so, but I guess it's clear.. either do it, or lose US business.


 
i really wouldnt be as interested in a laser with all those components. im happy with a point and click laser.

half the performance parts on my cars are illegal and yet i still buy them and use them.


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## dr_lava (May 24, 2006)

alaskawolf said:


> i really wouldnt be as interested in a laser with all those components. im happy with a point and click laser.
> 
> half the performance parts on my cars are illegal and yet i still buy them and use them.



What I was referring to was the possibility that in a while (if they get shut down) _ you won't be able to buy from them anymore_, not that having those components would make their lasers any more desireable.
But, in fact, all this negative attention, as long are they are able to still sell, is the viral marketing they want, enticing the younger crowd into buying.


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## wondergimp (May 25, 2006)

dr_lava said:


> What I was referring to was the possibility that in a while (if they get shut down) _ you won't be able to buy from them anymore_, not that having those components would make their lasers any more desireable.
> But, in fact, all this negative attention, as long are they are able to still sell, is the viral marketing they want, enticing the younger crowd into buying.


Personally, I think all the safety features are crap. I have a 95mw nexus, and when I fire up the unit, I don't want to mess the 'safety' features of the competitors. Though, one could come up with many counter-arguements, this is just my opinion. I believe most of the competitors use the legality issue in order to sway customers to buy their products, and again, just my opinion. As for the 'younger crowd,' gimme a break, the younger users will not buy something just because their is a question of legality, they buy them because of the convenience and prices. 

Just my thoughts.


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## Athoul (May 25, 2006)

I've ran those WL Pen lasers for up to 3-4 minutes without any damage to the diode, WIcked themselves suggest 100 seconds on/10 seconds off though. After that time period the laser is warm, but not "that" hot. They are not modded and use 500mW pump diodes, though they do have a pot inside that can be turned up to get even more output...but then as with the modded leadlights you sacrifice diode lifetime.


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## King Of Dreams (May 25, 2006)

WTF! apealing to youngsters?! unless im very stupid, im not sure that any kid can get his parents credit card and spend $200+ on a laser without them knowing about it. come on, parents are going to ask their son/daughter what they are buying and unless the parent is incredibly stupid, they are not going to let some immature kid get a very powerful laser. no kid is ever going to spend that much money on a laser that he/she will get bored with after ten seconds.


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## Blindspot (May 25, 2006)

So are Wicked Lasers legal in the US?

Are the OEM?

Eh?


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## comozo (May 25, 2006)

Blindspot said:


> So are Wicked Lasers legal in the US?
> 
> Are the OEM?
> 
> Eh?




Nope and all WL products are known as Demonstration Lasers by the FDA. WL does not sell OEM devices no matter what they call them, but if you want one go ahead and buy. All of the lasers that we on this forum are generally concerned about can be generically called plug and play or turnkey.


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## wondergimp (May 25, 2006)

comozo said:


> Nope and all WL products are known as Demonstration Lasers by the FDA. WL does not sell OEM devices no matter what they call them, but if you want one go ahead and buy. All of the lasers that we on this forum are generally concerned about can be generically called plug and play or turnkey.


Here we go again...





Another reason this forum is not too enjoyable...get sick of hearing this every other week.


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## Athoul (May 25, 2006)

They are just as legal for private use as any other laser. You can not use them as pointers, that is not legal, nor for commercial or public use. Technically starpointing is illegal with greater then 5mW lasers I believe. So regardless of safety features, you still need a variance to legally operate a >5mW laser in public or for commercial use. I think 99% of those here(and in general) do not have a variance.

What does this mean? It means all lasers from any company are not(technically) legal to use in public or outdoors without a variance. People need to stop focusing on one company and realise this applies to them all. This topic is so old now though...


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## comozo (May 25, 2006)

Athoul's right when the term legal is used it means for retail sale. We are not refering to ownership.


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## Athoul (May 26, 2006)

I just want to add, that this does not mean new very defined laws for personal ownership can't come into place, especially if high powered portable lasers(of any manufacture) become an issue.

I have to admit that I kinda wish there was a required certificate, stating that a person had to take a one day laser safety course as a pre-requisite for being able to own a class 3b or 4 laser. As much as this might sound like a pain in the rear, when looking at the larger picture I think it would be more of a benefit then a hindrance.


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## nero_design (May 26, 2006)

Blindspot said:


> So are Wicked Lasers legal in the US?
> 
> Are the OEM?
> 
> Eh?




I think you'll find that the definition of OEM is different in relation to lasers than say "OEM Computers" or "OEM Cars". 
OEM means (literally) Original Equipment Manufacture. It means that this is the state the item was in when it was released from the factory and has not been altered or modified since.

A non-OEM laser (some times referred to as "modded" laser) is usually a laser which has been modified or altered in some manner AFTER it was manufactured. Turning the pot (aka potentiometer) on the circuit board of a laser can sometimes increase the power ouput . This can sometimes increase the power beyond that which the chipset was designed to accommodate. A stronger beam will be emitted from the diode and aperture. Such "Modding" usually places more stress on the diode and frequency crystals than usual since more output, heat and electrical current can damage the components of the lasers over a smaller period of time. "Modded" lasers are a major concern for the FDA since a <5mW laser (Class 3a) can easily be "modded" to output a more dangerous Class 3B beam. Sometimes up to a massive 50mW or more, depending on the frequency and quality/efficiency of the frequency crystals. The FDA stepped in to regulate the use of lasers further when it became clear that lasers were being "modded" and that unacceptable risks were possible since modded lasers often contained the old/original lower-class warning labels which did not correctly identify the new higher output of the laser.

An 'OEM laser' is usually defined as a laser which has undergone no further alteration in output since it left the factory. Such lasers tend to be less prone to power fluctuations than 'modded' lasers and are more likely to function to the extent of the stated life of the diode. Non-OEM lasers (modded lasers) however tend to last a shorter lifespan and may carry an incorrectly labelled or stated output sticker. This can be hazardous to the user and others.

A 'modded' laser may last just a day or even six months (or more) of occasional use before the diode dies or the crystal in it is damaged from heat.
The same laser, if not modded, is sometimes referred to as OEM. This laser, outputting it's usual stated power, may last the full lifetime of the diode. It may be as much as several years or more.

Hence OEM lasers are sometimes more desirable for owners than modded lasers. Older lasers which are sometimes out-of-warranty are often "modded" by their owners who may be laserists or laser hobbyists. Selling such modded lasers is frowned upon by the FDA since a hazard exists due to the increased and possibly unstated increase in output. Modified lasers are stated on the FDA website list of definitions as being "of particular concern for the FDA".

OEM lasers on the other hand are still subject to regulations in many countries. "Modded" lasers tend to be unacceptable for sale since they have been "pimped" to levels of output not intended by the manufacturer. "Modded" lasers are therefore not likely to be legally advertised for sale in many countries for this reason.

It is up to individuals to comply with their local government regulatory bodies when operating and using lasers. Each country and each state may have conflicting or different rules in relation to lasers. There is no specific US law to restrict people from modding their own legally purchased 5mW lasers. But there is indeed laws in place to prevent the same owner from selling these modded lasers to the general public or even advertising their sale. Using any laser in public (outside of home and private residences) may violate numerous laws in any country so be aware of your location and show general sensibility when using your lasers, modded or OEM.

*A 'modded' laser should not be confused with a so called "freak laser" which is simply a one-in-a-few-hundred lasers which outputs more than it's intended output. These are usually Class 3B lasers which output higher than intended power yet have not been modified. This is often the result of ultra-efficient crystals. Some unscrupulous dealers sell their 'Modded' lasers as freak units or claim that the "crystal alignment or potentiometer must have shifted during transit" in order to try to avoid arrest and prosecution for dealing in modded lasers.


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## King Of Dreams (May 26, 2006)

^^ dude, again you've laid down some brilliant points. thanks alot.


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## dr_lava (May 26, 2006)

and that OEM concept is not to be confused with the idea that high power lasers intended for OEM integration do not need safety interlocks because it is assumed that the final OEM will include any safety measures necessary in the final product.


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