# Original Surefire A2 Aviator - worth upgrading anymore?



## punky1402 (Jan 20, 2019)

Hey there CPF,

I have an original Surefire A2 Aviator, it has a red LED ring. Compared to my other smattering of flashlights it just has no power. I did find the Lumens Factory high output bulb since the bulb I have in there still is probably the one that came with it. Even with a fresh pair of CR123As and the new bulb I still feel like it lacks intensity to my other lights. I've seen the threads about the enhanced LED rings and some CPF member custom updated bulbs. I do love the soft press for a ring of red LEDs, but wish it had some more oomph with the white throw with the deeper press. I love the feel of the light, the form and the tailcap feel. My question to you as a few parts:

1. Are there other mods, upgrades or bulbs I have not found still available?
2. Are there mods that I could maybe do myself without the need for someone else to solder together components?
3. Is it worth upgrading? Or should I just thank it for it's service and leave it on my shelf of obsolete gear?

Lights I have for comparison:

Streamlight Stinger DS LED HL
Streamlight Polytac X
Streamlight Protac 2L
Streamlight Sidewinder Compact II
Surefire G2X Pro
Olight M1T Raider
Olight i3T EOS
Olight i1R EOS

All of which seem to have more illumination power. 

Lastly should I spend the money for a current Surefire Aviator to replace my old one? (assuming I'm made of $$:laughing

(also hoping I posted this in the right thread)


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## thermal guy (Jan 20, 2019)

It is what it is. I own two of them and it's more for nostalgia then anything else. The stock or high output lumens factory is as bright as it gets. They are great lights. Way ahead of there time but yes weak by today's standards.


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## bykfixer (Jan 20, 2019)

Put a Tads Customs adapter in it and a 3712 bulb.
Google Tads Customs for his eBay store.

You'll thank him later.


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## Illum (Jan 20, 2019)

I still use mine quite often, while I do have 1000-2000 lumen lights time and time again I wonder back to incandescent lamps. Many of us keep an old stock minimag around to refresh our perspective of things. More is always good but is it practical? If you're working on a project and accidentally shine your own eyes, does it hurt? My aviators been with me since 2006ish. Went through countless sets of batteries, but 50 lumens is still plenty bright. 50 lumens of full spectrum warmth. I don't like LED worklights, they wash out alot of details and sometimes 6500K gives me a headache. I don't know why. 

My work carry:
Solarforce host 2x18650 w/Sportac P60 CREE XP-L HI Domeless Neutral as main 
Eagletac P200CL2 CREE XP-L HI Domeless Neutral as backup

My everywhere else carry:
Solarforce host 2x18650 LF C2M adapter, M3 head, MN15 Lamp
Surefire A2-HA-RD w/ LF A2-HO lamp and Koala 660nm ring. 

If you don't like it you can always sell it on here, a few of us who remember it for sentimental value might pop up with an offer.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 20, 2019)

Years ago in a CPF light meter test of members meters, there was a pass around of various lights including the A2 without the LED ring. This to check the reading of members readings and compare them. After the testing the A2 and the other lights were checked by a reputable lab for lumen output. The A2 tested at 71 lumens, if I recall rightly. This without the LED ring. My A2 is bright enough for me, for an incandescent lamp. I use other higher output LED lights for throw.

Bill


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## peter yetman (Jan 21, 2019)

Illum said:


> sometimes 6500K gives me a headache. I don't know why.


You are not alone.
P


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## Tachead (Jan 21, 2019)

Maybe your 6500K lights use PWM as there is no reason 6500K should give you a headache. If that were the case you would get one every day when you walk out in the afternoon sun lol.


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## peter yetman (Jan 21, 2019)

Back to the HDS Forum for me. At least they're polite over there.
P


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## Tachead (Jan 21, 2019)

peter yetman said:


> Back to the HDS Forum for me. At least they're polite over there.
> P


I was not trying to be impolite if you were referring to me. I was simply pointing out that PWM or lack of constant current may be the issue you and the other fellow are having as apposed to CCT. Sorry if I offended you.


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## ampdude (Jan 21, 2019)

IMO it doesn't need an "upgrade". It is what it is. I love my A2's and respect them for what they can and can't do. It's the only light I have that I can use both primaries and rechargeables in without changing lamp assemblies, and at the same time it has a lower power LED backup light source just in case. If you want a 6,000 Lumen LED light then get that.

I agree, it's not a super bright light, and I never even thought it was back in the day. They should have made the three cell 9 volt (7.4V) version instead, just like they should have made an E3e.


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## Modernflame (Jan 21, 2019)

I think the A2 is still a very useful flashlight. I'd say keep it, appreciate it, and do the CPF thing and buy something else to have with it. Parting with it is something you might regret later. I ditched my SF incandescents some years ago. Still chiding myself for it.



Tachead said:


> Maybe your 6500K lights use PWM as there is no reason 6500K should give you a headache. If that were the case you would get one every day when you walk out in the afternoon sun lol.



I get what you're saying about color temperature, but the light coming from the business end of your typical ~6000K 70 CRI flashlight looks nothing whatever like sunlight. In fact, it's quite unnatural. I've noticed that it puts a strain on my eyes when used for any length of time. I can see how it might contribute to a headache. Most people probably don't experience that, but everyone is different.


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## Tachead (Jan 21, 2019)

Yes, I suppose CRI must be considered too. Using a low CRI light for extended periods is more fatiguing to me as well.


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## punky1402 (Jan 21, 2019)

Thank you all for your input, I still do like the A2 and there is something more natural/neutral with the lighting colors. I'm undecided about upgrading it or allowing it to be as it is, you all make good points. I've got two other modern LEDs that push 800 lumens, and I don't have much need for anything brighter at the moment. It is a great light still, just I find I grab other lights more often. I'll check out the Tad but I may just leave it alone and keep fresh 123's handy. Thanks for all the responses!! Much appreciated.


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## ma tumba (Jan 22, 2019)

Frankly, I haven't carried any of my a2s for a year. But having said this, I think that an a2 is an amazing light, if you replace stock led ring by something more advanced and up to date. In my case these are multi-mode Calypsoii rings with yuji leds


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## fresh eddie fresh (Jan 24, 2019)

I used to be a massive incan A2 collector (at least one in every color round, plus about four square) but sold them all a few years back except one green one Y/G. They are really fun, but they kill batteries much faster than my A2Ls (which are only really good for two levels of multi colored flood) and my AZ2s (which do the flood on low and throw on high thing very well). 

The Lumens Factory bulbs are a great upgrade. Many years ago people would ask about LED bulbs for A2s every so often, but the general opinion was that that would be Surefire heresy (personally, I would buy and use such a thing if it were readily available!)


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## LRJ88 (Jan 24, 2019)

I hope i'm not derailing the thread with this, but would it be possible to get pictures of the Aviator? There's always a charm with the older models.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 24, 2019)

LRJ88 said:


> I hope i'm not derailing the thread with this, but would it be possible to get pictures of the Aviator? There's always a charm with the older models.



Try this. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?107943-The-SF-A2


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## LRJ88 (Jan 24, 2019)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Try this. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?107943-The-SF-A2



I've seen that thread before, it's nice. It's always interesting to see what they look like after a few years of use though, the patina and character of the flashlight based on what the person's been using it for.


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## thermal guy (Jan 25, 2019)

I’ll grab a few pictures of mine when I get home.


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## bykfixer (Jan 25, 2019)

My pair of white LED users. 
Top one is stock. Bottom has a Tads 3712.


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## LRJ88 (Jan 25, 2019)

thermal guy said:


> I’ll grab a few pictures of mine when I get home.



Much appreciated.





bykfixer said:


> My pair of white LED users.
> Top one is stock. Bottom has a Tads 3712.



A very nice pair, is the machining on the bottom one slightly softer along the transitions or is it just the light and colour playing tricks?


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## bykfixer (Jan 26, 2019)

The bottom one has less pronounced edges at the top area. I suppose the word 'softer' is a good way to describe it.


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## archimedes (Jan 26, 2019)

ma tumba said:


> .... But having said this, I think that an a2 is an amazing light, if you replace stock led ring by something more advanced and up to date. In my case these are multi-mode Calypsoii rings with yuji leds



Yes, mine run @calipsoii rings ...








LRJ88 said:


> I hope i'm not derailing the thread with this, but would it be possible to get pictures of the Aviator? There's always a charm with the older models.



Sure ...


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## scout24 (Jan 27, 2019)

I agree the Calipsoi and Koala rings are really the epitome of upgrades, as stated. The A2 comes from a different time, when there was a difference between a practical fashlight you could carry with you all the time, and a searchlight/spotlight for more serious use. Today, we have 500 plus lumen 100 yard lights you can palm that take up half the room of an A2. (4Sevens Mini Turbo, just one example) 50 yard 71 lumen lights make just as much usable light as they ever did, and work great within their limitations. Our expectations have just grown exponentially. I'd keep that A2 stock. If you have to make a flamethrower out of it, I believe Tana does 16650/ 18650 Triple and quad conversions these days. Of course, you're preserving the body of the light but not the spirit at that point.

Arch- Nice Aviators with your Aviators...


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## id30209 (Jan 27, 2019)

Oh man i have other problem...when is enough?? Have few and still thinking about getting another one[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
All have Koala ring BTW and would love to get Calipsoii at one point...
The fact that it’s the only Surefire (that saw production) which uses softstart is even more sexier and unique.

@archimedes... that’s real mathematical triangle[emoji123][emoji3][emoji3]


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## archimedes (Jan 27, 2019)

scout24 said:


> .... Arch- Nice Aviators with your Aviators...



Thank you, that is one of my favorite photos 



id30209 said:


> .... @archimedes... that’s real mathematical triangle[emoji123][emoji3][emoji3]



As I often say, a2 + a2 = a2L ... or was that someone else ?


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## bykfixer (Jan 27, 2019)

American Opticals and the A2.
It just don't get no better than that.


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## id30209 (Jan 27, 2019)

I forgot to mention that my triplets are exact copy of Mr.Fixer’s twins LOL

I hope OP got his answer..[emoji109][emoji109][emoji1690][emoji123]


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## punky1402 (Feb 3, 2019)

id30209 said:


> I hope OP got his answer..[emoji109][emoji109][emoji1690][emoji123]



Yep, and then some! Thanks for all the input folks!


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## thermal guy (Feb 3, 2019)




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## xevious (Feb 4, 2019)

These older lights can still be useful, as task lights and limited duty. Incandescent can be nice in cooler climates (illuminates and hand-warms). But I'd not bother upgrading your A2. You love the light, so keep it as a nostalgic piece. Fire it up on occasion. And if it's in top physical condition, that's a bonus.

There is something about having a very solidly built host. Surefire still does that extremely well, but for a hefty price. Some models lend themselves more to modding than others. I picked up a KROMA recently. And yes, it's quite dim in comparison to other lights I own, of smaller size. I bought an Astrolux S43S for 1/3rd the price and it's an entirely different class of functionality. But the Kroma has a weird, unusual design and feels so tremendously solid. While I'd been using my old NovaTac 120P in moonlight mode for short tasks late at night, I'm now enjoying use of the red illumination (easier on the eyes, so it has less impact on a sleepy mind). I'd been tempted to modify it, having a more powerful and Hi-CRI emitter installed, but now I'm feeling like it would be better off kept as stock.


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## xevious (Feb 9, 2019)

Illum said:


> If you don't like it you can always sell it on here, a few of us who remember it for sentimental value might pop up with an offer.


Just thought you should know -- can't send you any PM's as your inbox is *full*.


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## scout24 (Feb 12, 2019)

LRJ88 said:


> I hope i'm not derailing the thread with this, but would it be possible to get pictures of the Aviator? There's always a charm with the older models.




Well, here's another photo of a four flats A2.  I thought this had been lost in a house fire, it was one of a bunch of things found in the rubble that were just tossed in a box to 'deal with later". I was going through things today, and jokingly twisted the tailcap. The red secondaries came on... A bunch of cleaning later, replacing o-rings, replacing cells and cleaning threads, and it all works... Score one for the home team... :thumbsup:
Now I need some new bulbs. The one in it works, need to get to Tad's order page...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/47072773291/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/46164139265/in/dateposted-public/


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## archimedes (Feb 12, 2019)

Another amazing SureFire story !


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## scout24 (Feb 12, 2019)

The fickle finger of fate... My U2 laying a few feet away was recognizable but toast. :candle:


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## LRJ88 (Feb 13, 2019)

scout24 said:


> Well, here's another photo of a four flats A2.  I thought this had been lost in a house fire, it was one of a bunch of things found in the rubble that were just tossed in a box to 'deal with later". I was going through things today, and jokingly twisted the tailcap. The red secondaries came on... A bunch of cleaning later, replacing o-rings, replacing cells and cleaning threads, and it all works... Score one for the home team... :thumbsup:
> Now I need some new bulbs. The one in it works, need to get to Tad's order page...
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/47072773291/in/dateposted-public/
> ...



Still in really nice condition too, any potential internal damage aside. Also, the warning text on the head finally warranted the real estate it takes up.


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## thermal guy (Feb 13, 2019)

scout24 said:


> Well, here's another photo of a four flats A2.  I thought this had been lost in a house fire, it was one of a bunch of things found in the rubble that were just tossed in a box to 'deal with later". I was going through things today, and jokingly twisted the tailcap. The red secondaries came on... A bunch of cleaning later, replacing o-rings, replacing cells and cleaning threads, and it all works... Score one for the home team... :thumbsup:
> Now I need some new bulbs. The one in it works, need to get to Tad's order page...
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/47072773291/in/dateposted-public/
> ...



That thing still works?!! That’s amazing.


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## xevious (Feb 14, 2019)

scout24 said:


> Well, here's another photo of a four flats A2.  I thought this had been lost in a house fire, it was one of a bunch of things found in the rubble that were just tossed in a box to 'deal with later". I was going through things today, and jokingly twisted the tailcap. The red secondaries came on... A bunch of cleaning later, replacing o-rings, replacing cells and cleaning threads, and it all works... Score one for the home team... :thumbsup:
> Now I need some new bulbs. The one in it works, need to get to Tad's order page...
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/47072773291/in/dateposted-public/
> ...


That's incredible it still works. But... how does it _smell_? :tinfoil:


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## scout24 (Feb 14, 2019)

The "nasty exploded lithium" smell is worse than anything else. It's sitting open right now to air out. It's got some friends that have survived in similar shape, so there's hope. The Nitrolon lights were the worst. My G2's and G3's that were found had to be tossed... :green::sick2::mecry:


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## Rabbit44 (Apr 19, 2019)

What rechargeable would be recommended for My original Surefire A2, I would like to not have to order regular batteries for it, thank you.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 19, 2019)

Go with two RCR123 Lithium Ion batteries. Other members have noted no problems with that setup. The Li Ions will over volt the Led ring, but I have never had a problem.

Bill


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## InvisibleFrodo (Apr 19, 2019)

What if you used LiFe batteries like those from K2 energy (the kind Surefire sells on their website)? Then you won’t be overdriving the LEDs nearly as much as the voltage range of those cells is lower then Li-ion.


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## yazkaz (Apr 20, 2019)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> What if you used LiFe batteries like those from K2 energy (the kind Surefire sells on their website)? Then you won’t be overdriving the LEDs nearly as much as the voltage range of those cells is lower then Li-ion.


I've been told some folks reported that the said cells would work. However the A2's battery chamber is extremely picky and that most RCRs won't even fit in.

But for the sake of the LED onion ring I'll simply run with primaries only.


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## socom1970 (Apr 22, 2019)

I've been using my A2's on and off for a long time. I have two left now, a four flats (stock bulb, primaries, and UV 365nm LEDs I installed on the stock ring) and a round body. I run AW R123's in my round body along with an onion ring and a Strion bulb/adapter. Never had any probs at all. I remember reading here that the A2 Incan regulator can handle up to 9v, so no worries with RCR123's, though the LED's and stock ring would be overdriven. 

I still love my A2's. These two are keepers for sure.👍


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## scout24 (Apr 25, 2019)

Socom1970- PM inbound.


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## Timothybil (Apr 25, 2019)

Noticed on Lumen Factory's New Products page that they now sell an LED replacement for the main incan bulb.

[Sorry if this is a duplicate - I haven't been following this thread]


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## DeLighted (Jun 29, 2019)

bykfixer said:


> Put a Tads Customs adapter in it and a 3712 bulb.
> Google Tads Customs for his eBay store.
> 
> You'll thank him later.



I looked at his site and reviewed his selection of lamps. You recommend the 3712 bulb. Any comments on the A3718 w/140 lumen with only 1/3 more current draw (.6a) How long does your A3712 last on a set of batteries?

Thanks


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## bykfixer (Jun 29, 2019)

I've never timed how long they last. I just use a light until it runs out of fuel and swap in a new fuel source. 

I figured the amount of increase in lumens wasn't enough to make ahelluva difference so I went the the 3712


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## DayofReckoning (Jun 29, 2019)

DeLighted said:


> I looked at his sight and saw his selection of lamps. You recommend the 3712 bulb. Any comments on the A3718 w/140 lumen with only 1/3 more current draw (.6a) How long does your A3712 last on a set of batteries?
> 
> Thanks



I've swapped back and forth between the 3712 and the 3718 for about a month now, in both an A2 Aviator, as well as an E2E, running multiple types of batteries from 16650 to 26650. 

It's my opinion that the 3718 is not worth the reduced runtime versus the 3712. The only real advantage the 3718 has, other than *slighty *more brightness, is that the is the hotspot is larger than the 3712. 

With that said, if you don't care about runtime whatsoever, then run the 3718.


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## bubbatime (Jul 22, 2019)

Timothybil said:


> Noticed on Lumen Factory's New Products page that they now sell an LED replacement for the main incan bulb.



Yes, has anyone tried the new Lumens Factory LED drop in module for A2 lights?

https://lumensfactory.com/en/product_detail.php?pid=444


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## yazkaz (Jul 23, 2019)

bubbatime said:


> Yes, has anyone tried the new Lumens Factory LED drop in module for A2 lights?


Yes I have... also the reason why I invested on my first A2 some months ago...


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## sgt253 (Jul 26, 2019)

Man yazkaz I sure would love to see some beam shots if you were able to post some. This drop in sounds really interesting...


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 26, 2019)

I guess that I like the stock ican driver. Voltage regulated, and ble to handle two Li-Ions. SF came out with am all LED A2 yeas ago. It just didn't have the magic of the original. I wonder how LF bi passes the A2's voltage regulated circuit with their constant current regulated LED drop in?

Bill


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## Signalcorpsoperator (Jul 30, 2019)

+1 on the beamshots, if you could post some! I've an A2 that I've been on the fence about picking up that LED drop-in for. . .

Tom


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## yazkaz (Jul 30, 2019)

Bullzeyebill said:


> I wonder how LF bi passes the A2's voltage regulated circuit with their constant current regulated LED drop in?


LF didn't bypass the in-body driver; it kind of complements it. But the driver concerned did pose certain headache to LF when developing the main LED dropin. Simply put, the dropin can't have extra-high specs as the in-body driver would eventually step down everything to regulate (ie. decrease) the overall output. So unless the in-body driver can be tweaked or modified, there's no way to further increase the LED module's output whatsoever.


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## yazkaz (Jul 30, 2019)

Signalcorpsoperator said:


> +1 on the beamshots, if you could post some! I've an A2 that I've been on the fence about picking up that LED drop-in for. . .


Not easy to pull off beamshots, but I can try. I may even consider posting a small video walkthrough as well as comparison between this and the E2e tower module.


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