# 600 OTF / Pocketable / 1/2hr runtime?



## chelboed (Mar 12, 2010)

Apparently my other thread was titled in an offensive manner and I do apoligize. I have been a member of other forums of a different hobby and started threads with silly titles for fun...as long as they're somewhat relevant to the subject.

Anyhoo...is there a torch that fits the parameters within the title of this thread? There were two very good suggestions in the closed thread, but I was hoping for a little more input before I start to experiment.


Respectfully me.

Ed


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## fivemega (Mar 12, 2010)

chelboed said:


> 600 OTF / *Pocketable* / 1/2hr runtime?



*It might be helpfull if you tell us size of your pocket, moneywise and dimension.
Another word, how much money you wand to spend maximum and what length/diameter flashlight is the limit to fit your pocket.*


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## RedForest UK (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm waiting for the Quark Maelstrom 1200, it might be quite pricey, but is compact and the output will be incredible!


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## mrartillery (Mar 12, 2010)

I know this is the Incan forum and i do love my incans, but i just bought a Lumapower D-mini VX ultra for my new pocket rocket. I like it, the size and output is what sold me most of all.

What I was saying in your other thread was a G4 sunlight with a 1111 and 2 IMR 16340's, your RCR's wont handle the current. And yes this is P60 style drop in. (If you want to stick with incan) But dont count on a 1/2 hour runtime.


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## Dioni (Mar 12, 2010)

fivemega said:


> *It might be helpfull if you tell us size of your pocket, moneywise and dimension.*


 
+1 on the pocket size :laughing:

It seems a task to a bi-pin bulb.


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## chelboed (Mar 12, 2010)

Sorry 'bout that. Hmm...pocket size...let's say in the neighborhood of 40mm diameter by 150mm length.

Give or take both ways. I've got big pockets...just not deep ones


I'd like to keep it in the sub-$100 range.



mrartillery said:


> I know this is the Incan forum and i do love my incans, but i just bought a Lumapower D-mini VX ultra for my new pocket rocket. I like it, the size and output is what sold me most of all.
> 
> What I was saying in your other thread was a G4 sunlight with a 1111 and 2 IMR 16340's, your RCR's wont handle the current. And yes this is P60 style drop in. (If you want to stick with incan) But dont count on a 1/2 hour runtime.


 
I'll have to check into the Lumapower. Ya know I really LOVE my P7 light. I know I'm gonna love my 5x Q5 light...especially if I transplant R2's or R5's in it and shorten it a tad...but for some reason, I feel like the LED light is "thin"...not as pleasing to my eyes, ya know? After over-volting a 12v 50w MR16 to 20v...I'm sorta thirsting for an Incan that really smokes.




Edit...CRAP MAN! I know I'm trying to get all "Incan"...but the "ultra" looks insanely nice for the price! (sitting at table...scratching head...glancing over at wife) Hmmm...we'll see.

Thanks for the heads up on that one. I'm such a nooblet at this stuff. My limited experience is so centered around el'cheapo stuff from DX. At least I got a Pila and ebayed my TR001 chargers, eh?


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Mar 12, 2010)

Believe me - I have tried to get the specs you are looking for and it doesn't exist. It has seemed to me that when you compare incan to LED you need to multiply by approx a factor of 3.

So if you have a light that can pump 500 lumens off one 18650 cell it is more than likely you will need 3x18650 to get the same off an incan with approx the same runtime.

I have three incan pocket rockets that are about as close as you can get (you didn't mention what type of throw you want thought - do you want spotty or throwy?) but probably not with 30 minutes runtime except for number 3 which may comes close:

1) E2e with 2xIMR16340 and Lumens Factroy IMR-E2. 350 bulb lumens for ~10-15 minutes.

2) C2 (or equiv.) running a P91 with 2xIMR16340. I think that has measured close to or over 500 lumens OTF on fresh batteries but very floody. Approx 10 minutes.

3) M3 with 2xIMR18500 and Lumens Factory IMR-M3 pushing 500 bulb lumens. Approx 20-25 minutes runtime.

What you are looking for is possible but will take something in a Surefire M6 type mod or equiv for the power and runtime you want. A M6 with a WA1166 or HO-M6R will push your 600 lumens on 3x17670 batteries for up to ~40 minutes.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Mar 12, 2010)

chelboed said:


> I'd like to keep it in the sub-$100 range.



I don't think that is realistic unless you go with a MagLite mod route and maybe a WA1111 bulb setup.


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## lctorana (Mar 12, 2010)

A 2C Mag RoP LE would fit the bill, if not the $bill.

_Edit, if you pardon the advertisement, __this__!_


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## hoongern (Mar 12, 2010)

One of the big issues here is the heat - with 600 OTF lumens in a small package, you're not going to be able to run it for long at all. (Same thing with LED lights in fact)

For example, my Seraph SP-9 (Definitely Pocketable to me) with the FiveMega D26-G4 bi-pin adapter w/ WA1111 bulb w/ 2xIMR18500 gets WAY hot after a few minutes of usage. It definitely won't get half an hour runtime either. (But I still love it anyway)

Anyway, my suggestion would be to either use a P60 host (like the Surefire 6p, Solarforce L2, or Seraph SP6/9) with a D26 assembly from Fivemega. If you get the G4 assembly, then go with the WA1111 with IMR16340s or IMR18500s (a bit longer).

Otherwise, you can try (I think - I haven't used it) - get the D26-T1.5 assembly with the (currently recalled though, but it should be coming back sometime) CL-1794 bulb and run it off 2xAW ICR18650/IMR16340. 18650s may be a bit long for you though, based on your requirements.

But anyway, it's tough to have anything pocketable (both LED and incan) which puts out 600 OTF for half an hour.


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## Brian321 (Mar 13, 2010)

Maybe the dereelight DBS MC-E with AW RCR123's gives 500 Lumens(not sure if thats bulb or OTF) for around 30 min.

http://flashlightconnection.com/Dereelight-Flashlights/DBS-V3-Cree-MC-E-c5/


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## hoongern (Mar 13, 2010)

Brian321 said:


> Maybe the dereelight DBS MC-E with AW RCR123's gives 500 Lumens(not sure if thats bulb or OTF) for around 30 min.
> 
> http://flashlightconnection.com/Dereelight-Flashlights/DBS-V3-Cree-MC-E-c5/



The DBS MC-E puts out 470 lumens at the start, decreasing to 402 lumens at the 3 minute mark. See here

Additionally, using something like LumensFactory's D36 drop-ins should easily hit the 600 lumen mark (IMR9-L, IMR13) but again, runtime is going to be the issue here if you still want it in a small package.


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## chelboed (Mar 13, 2010)

Brian321 said:


> Maybe the dereelight DBS MC-E with AW RCR123's gives 500 Lumens(not sure if thats bulb or OTF) for around 30 min.
> 
> http://flashlightconnection.com/Dereelight-Flashlights/DBS-V3-Cree-MC-E-c5/


 


Sure...that's an option...but I was hoping for Incan. If I was gonna go LED I'd just do the little pocket-rocket sst-50 for sure.


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## TriChrome (Mar 13, 2010)

The Carley 1794 bulbs are supposed to be back in stock any day (or that's what they've been telling us for the last month at least). In a FiveMega bi-pin holder, on two IMR 16340 cells it pushes 1,030 lumens (which would certainly breach your 600 OTF number). It might just last for almost an half hour as well, but I wouldn't dare run it constant for that long. 

I consider a D26 size head about the max pocketable size (in jeans pockets at least, if we're talking about a jacket, then larger is a lot easier). 

This setup is also supposed to be the most throwy D26 size setup available if that's important to you.


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## leukos (Mar 13, 2010)

It's probably going to run a little over $100, but if you get the 2x 26500 body here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/235414 pick up a C series bezel, a mcgizmo switch (or AW softstart), 2x IMR 26500's, and a D26 bulb that will give you 600+ lumens, you are in business.


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## chelboed (Mar 13, 2010)

leukos said:


> It's probably going to run a little over $100, but if you get the 2x 26500 body here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/235414 pick up a C series bezel, a mcgizmo switch (or AW softstart), 2x IMR 26500's, and a D26 bulb that will give you 600+ lumens, you are in business.


 



Man...this place is a labyrinth of resources.


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## Dioni (Mar 13, 2010)

Will the Carley 1794  if running on 2xIMR18500? 
Any estimate on runtime with these cells?


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## TriChrome (Mar 13, 2010)

Nite (who sells the 1794) only suggests 2x IMR 16340's, but has told me he's run 18500's on it before but the danger of instaflash is increased.

I don't know how long they last.


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## mrartillery (Mar 13, 2010)

If you carry around a light with 2x18650's you will need some big pockets, or a holster, lol.


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## Hack On Wheels (Mar 13, 2010)

mrartillery said:


> If you carry around a light with 2x18650's you will need some big pockets, or a holster, lol.



Those would definitely have to be some big pockets!

2x 18650 is getting a bit long, but I think 2x 18500 might just work... Would be great in a bored 9P or C3 body (depends if you like a clip and rubber grip ring or not). Not quite sure what I would recommend for a lamp though and it would probably be more than $100 just for the bored host. Combine that with the AW softstart/3-speed switch and runtime would be pretty reasonable. 

The C3 with 2x 18650s is one of my ideal setups that I'm hoping to put together sometime. One of FM's socket/reflector drop-ins would be nice but not sure what bulb would be ideal. It would also have the option of 3 IMR16340s if I ever wanted to run a higher voltage bulb... pretty versatile, but it wouldn't be cheap to put together.


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## mdocod (Mar 14, 2010)

40mm x 150mm.... under $100, 600 lumen, 1hr runtime...hmmm..

Reminds me of a quote I heard somewhere:

"The only replacement for cubic inches is rectangular dollars"

Having a specific lumen requirement is going to make this tough. The way I usually treat a specific lumen request is to first point out that anything from as little as half to as much as double that requirement is all in the same rough ball-park when it's comes to portable illumination. Eyes deal with light levels in a logarithmic fashion, such that many lights across a wide range of maximum output will all perform in similar applications very well. In your case, I think you should consider all of your options from ~300 to ~1000 lumens and prioritize on beam pattern, runtime, size and weight all over total lumen output. Approaching the problem in this fashion will result in the best possible solution for you. 

If dollars were no object, I would tell you to buy an FM Megalennium 3x18650 body, pick up a Z46 head and mod it to accept a D36 lamp module, then run 3 protected 18650 cells (2400+mAH) and drive the EO-13 D36 lamp from LF. This setup would be several hundred dollars but it would run for over an hour, deliver great throw and output that would likely satisfy the ball-park requirement more than well enough, and fit inside a coat pocket. (an M6 size body with the M3 head on it looks like a funky aluminum cucumber or something, but it would be the closest thing to your size and output and runtime requirements that anyone could get I think). 

If you want that runtime and output but are willing to sacrifice the length and make a "baton" style light, you can get 3x18650 bodies for about $60 IIRC, then pick up a LF D36 head, maybe a solar-force tailcap or something, some cells/charger/EO-13 lamp etc etc ... It would still be over $100 but probably under $200. 

If you don't mind a head size that exceeds that 40mm limit your overall size requirement isn't far behind a 2D mag, also consider cut-down D size mags or a 2C mag. All of those hosts could be modified in some way or another to come close to the requirements. Probably the cheapest is the 2C option with a pair of 18650s shoe-horned in (requires some tailcap mods and a piece of pipe and some longer 18650s are too long for this). A pair of 18650s driving something like a WA1111 or Big D SLA (ROP) bulb or something along those lines would be a step in the direction you are looking for. 

Eric


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## flashfiend (Mar 14, 2010)

mdocod said:


> Having a specific lumen requirement is going to make this tough. The way I usually treat a specific lumen request is to first point out that anything from as little as half to as much as double that requirement is all in the same rough ball-park when it's comes to portable illumination. Eyes deal with light levels in a logarithmic fashion, such that many lights across a wide range of maximum output will all perform in similar applications very well. In your case, I think you should consider all of your options from ~300 to ~1000 lumens and prioritize on beam pattern, runtime, size and weight all over total lumen output. Approaching the problem in this fashion will result in the best possible solution for you.
> 
> .....
> 
> Eric



Probably the best piece of advice I've read on this forum. Specific lumen outputs to me aren't as important as what your eye can actually perceive. As described what you see may be different than what others see so output in this instance may be over-rated. Beam characteristics of the light as evaluated by the user may be more important.


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## chelboed (Mar 16, 2010)

flashfiend said:


> Probably the best piece of advice I've read on this forum. Specific lumen outputs to me aren't as important as what your eye can actually perceive. As described what you see may be different than what others see so output in this instance may be over-rated. Beam characteristics of the light as evaluated by the user may be more important.


 

You guys are probably right. I just got a P60 host with an R5 that I feel is at least comparable to my P7. Mfgr ratings for these two emitters are quite different. I think I just like the R5 beam pattern. The upside is that now that I have a p60 host...I can try the Incan bi-pin adapter.:twothumbs


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## 325addict (Mar 21, 2010)

Two of the three requirements can more or less be satisfied by this setup:

A: Take a Surefire C3 Centurion, 
B: add a D26 Sun module for G4 lamps by FiveMega,
C: put a WA1166 (11.6V 1.97A) in it,
D: add three IMR 16340 cells.

Switch it on, and... whoow! That's light, man :twothumbs

Runtime will, however, be 15 minutes _maximum._

When this short run time is not an option, take a Wolf Eyes 700 Lumen MC-E light. I can tell from my own experiences, that these are extremely bright, fine lights.
However, these lights are LED...

Timmo.


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## ampdude (Mar 21, 2010)

Probably the closest you're going to get to 500 lumens for around 30 minutes in a relatively compact light is an IMR-9 in a Fivemega 2 x 18500 body with two AW IMR18500's. It will come a bit short of 500 lumens, probably looking at more like 350-400 OTF lumens. Whether or not a 2 x 18500 sized light is pocketable, well you be the judge. Large coat pocket, or carpenter jeans, okay. Or subsitute the IMR-9 for something like the WA1111 in a Fivemega D26 bi-pin adapter, but your runtime will take a little hit.


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## fivemega (Mar 22, 2010)

ampdude said:


> Probably the closest you're going to get to 500 lumens for around 30 minutes in a relatively compact light is an IMR-9 in a Fivemega 2 x 18500 body with two AW IMR18500's. It will come a bit short of 500 lumens, probably looking at more like 350-400 OTF lumens. Whether or not a 2 x 18500 sized light is pocketable, well you be the judge. Large coat pocket, or carpenter jeans, okay. Or subsitute the IMR-9 for something like the WA1111 in a Fivemega D26 bi-pin adapter, but your runtime will take a little hit.



*1- Pocketable
2- Incand
3- 40mm diameter by 150mm length
4- 1/2 hour run time
5- Under $100

This is out of todays technology. You may need to wait several years.
However for long run IMRs are not good idea and protected LiCo cells will serve much better.
2x18650 AWs 2.6 with WA1111 in Sunlight is closest but sure will be longer than 150mm and above $100*


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## chelboed (Mar 22, 2010)

Why no tri-bore 18650 bodies suggested? Too expensive? I kinda feel that a tri-bore body with an equal diameter head (or slightly larger) would be pretty decent. The girth isn't as much an issue for my pockets as the length.


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## fivemega (Mar 22, 2010)

chelboed said:


> Why no tri-bore 18650 bodies suggested? Too expensive? I kinda feel that a tri-bore body with an equal diameter head (or slightly larger) would be pretty decent. The girth isn't as much an issue for my pockets as the length.



*Tri bored, shortened and rethreaded 2D M*g will cost you minimum of $60 ($20 host, $40 machining)
Then you need battery holder, bi pin socket, aluminum reflector, Boro lens and bulb.
After all these, you can use 3x17670 in M*g D similar of these. No way to accomodate bundle of 3 18650 in M*g D.
If you are talking about custom made 3x18650 like these, then cost of functional flashlight will be way above your $100 maximum limit.
My suggestion is save some more money and don't rush or be little more flexible and get 2x18650 in line flashlight.*


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## chelboed (Mar 22, 2010)

fivemega said:


> *Tri bored, shortened and rethreaded 2D M*g will cost you minimum of $60 ($20 host, $40 machining)*
> *Then you need battery holder, bi pin socket, aluminum reflector, Boro lens and bulb.*
> *After all these, you can use 3x17670 in M*g D similar of these. No way to accomodate bundle of 3 18650 in M*g D.*
> *If you are talking about custom made 3x18650 like these, then cost of functional flashlight will be way above your $100 maximum limit.*
> *My suggestion is save some more money and don't rush or be little more flexible and get 2x18650 in line flashlight.*


 


I'm definitely not rushed. I've decided that this is gonna be a long-term goal kinda thing.

For now, I have a Trustfire TR-1200 that kicks out plenty of stark white power to get me by. I wouldn't mind a tad more flood though as this el'cheapo TR 1200 is pretty tight with "some" useable spill.

When I hear the term "tri bore" I'm thinking that the barrel has a rounded triangular inside where the cells go right in. Why do I need a battery holder? Can't I just slide 'em in and rig up some sort of series conductors maybe? I could have my terminology all messed up though.


I have some high temp bi pin sockets for mr 11 / mr 16...will they fly or do I need a different size for the WA1111? I can fashion some sort of "holder" for the base of the socket out of aluminum stock if it's the proper spacing for the pins.


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## Fusion_m8 (Mar 26, 2010)

600 OTF / Pocketable / 1/2hr runtime?

Surefire M6 with a LumensFactory IMR-M6 lamp with 6x AW-IMR16340s!!! An EASY 700 OTF lumens!


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