# Mag2C SSC P7 3x 4/5 SubC Mod



## darkzero (May 18, 2008)

Here's a light I built for another member. I wasn't planning on posting this but because it's a simple mod with great results I wanted to share.

Mag2C using three 4/5 SubC 2000mah NiMhs makes a very nice inexpensive size P7 light. The P7 pulls 2.7A running direct drive off the 4/5 SubC cells. Even without a battery tube the cells don't rattle around at all.

Mag2C
Modified Hotlips-C
SSC P7 CSWOI
3x 4/5 SubC 2000mah NiMhs
Sputtered Reflector
KD Multi Layered Glass Lens (I'm really surprised how clear these are!)


The owner should really enjoy this light! I think I'm going to build me one too.

*EDIT - Feedback from the owner of this light:*


> Man this thing is bright! Actually both are bright. The EL Mag 2D is slightly brighter but has a very golden corona. The Mag you made for me has a more nicer beam and spill. The yellow color isnt bad, I actually like the color. I ended up using the Mag2C all night. I took the Mag 2D out only once because it was too big and heavy for duty use. The Mag 2D acutally got hotter quicker than the 2C you made. The Mag 2C fits nice in my back pocket and doesnt weigh my pants down. I dont think I ever got this many complaints from drivers in my whole career about how bright a light is. I was second on scene to a shooting and accidentally started blinding the victim! Every one else that started showing up started looking for casings. As soon as I started looking, the light was so bright that it made the casings standout and way easier to find. Everyone there was saying "What the hell kind of flashlight is that?"
> 
> The mainstream flashlights out there that Law Enforcement community uses is WAY behind the curb! After using my first modded Mag (a 2C with a Malkoff drop-in) I was saying to myself, How is everybody else getting by with low output lights like Stingers, SL20's and standard Surefire lights. Even high end Surefires didnt compare to my Malkoff 2C. Then I heard about the SCC P7. The first time I saw it, I thought to myself "This LED is a freaking monster!" I was'nt aware how bright it was though. The Mod you did for me blew my expectations away. While driving around, I was lighting up entire driveways and porches pretending I was looking for someone just to play with my new light! On car stops, I would usually point my beam at where the hands where. When I used the 2C, it would light up the entire front compartment of the car. I havent done any entries or building searches with it yet because we were looking for shooter all night. I'll let you know how it does indoors. A one of my team mates asked me where I got the light from... I said "This here is a DarkZero Custom buddy!"


 
*EDIT: More feedback below.*


















Left: Mag2C CSWOI 3x 4/5 SubC 2000mah, Right: Mag1C CSWOI GD3333


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## uluapoundr (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Darkzero,
Thanks for sharing. Even these "simple" builds help others, especially with P7 mods being new and "newbies" like me trying to learn as much as I can daily. I may just make one of these myself. Wish Mag still made 2C in color options.


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## A123Powered (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Thanks, that is a really cool idea! It looks like you have soldered the cells into a pack, are you still using the stock spring?

uluapoundr:

You can get a purple (blue-purple) 2 C maglight here: http://www.yourlightsource.com/inc/sdetail/239

It is confusing but if you click the black one there is a color choice, if they are out it will show zero when you add it. I have bought a couple of these from this store and they are great to deal with, and they ship fast. I have also seen sliver ones at Home Depot still. They blend in with the black ones in the box though, so they are hard to spot.


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## etc (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Interesting. How many lumens?


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## darkzero (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



A123Powered said:


> Thanks, that is a really cool idea! It looks like you have soldered the cells into a pack, are you still using the stock spring?


 
The cells aren't soldered together. The body, spring, & tailcap are stock.


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## Hamburger (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Can a normal Mag switch handle 2,8A ? Are these normal C-Cells ?

Nice one, I think I have to get one now, Q5 aint bright enough anymore


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## LukeA (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



Hamburger said:


> Can a normal Mag switch handle 2,8A ? Are these normal C-Cells ?
> 
> Nice one, I think I have to get one now, Q5 aint bright enough anymore


 
Mag swtiches have handled 10A. No, they're 4/5 C cells.


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## forrest (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Nice Light ! Could you please tell me where you got the heatsink and the reflector and lens, also what mod did you do the the heatsink? I want to build one of these also, Thanx; Forrest


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## Greg G (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

I really like these P7 builds for their lumens/simplicity ratio. 

Very good work. I like the beam on that light. Great job on sputtering the reflector. :thumbsup:


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## rizky_p (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



darkzero said:


> KD Multi Layered Glass Lens (I'm really surprised how clear these are!)



Yeah i bought a 52mm for Penta Cree Q2 Mag and 35mm for my WF-400 the lens(windows) is really clear, i kind of surprised with result my self. Compared to normal glass the KD lens looks like it isnt even there.


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## Hamburger (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



LukeA said:


> Mag swtiches have handled 10A. No, they're 4/5 C cells.



I couldn't find any info on 4/5 C cells, what the difference between them and normal C cells ?


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## darkzero (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



forrest said:


> Nice Light ! Could you please tell me where you got the heatsink and the reflector and lens, also what mod did you do the the heatsink? I want to build one of these also, Thanx; Forrest


 
The Hotlips heatsinks can still be purchased from Howard here. I removed the pedastal & drilled out the holes as pictured here. You could also use a DHS or Litemania's P7 heatsink from the Fenix-Store. H22A is supposed to release a P7 heatsink soon.

The lens you can buy from KD. I still prefer to use UCL. The reflector is a stock Mag that I sputtered. I sputtered it to match the KD MOP reflector. Compared to PMRs, IMO KD's MOP is a bit more than medium & I consider it on the heavy side.


Left: Sputtered Reflector, Right: KD's MOP


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## darkzero (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



Hamburger said:


> I couldn't find any info on 4/5 C cells, what the difference between them and normal C cells ?




*From the BatteryStation:*

*4/5 SUB C SIZE:* DIA 23.0 mm X HT 33.0 mm

*C SIZE:* DIA 25.2 mm X HT 49.0 mm

C Size x2: 98mm

4/5 C x3: 99mm


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## uluapoundr (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Thanks found the purple:twothumbs. Hard to find colored mags where I live, even Home Depot is limited. 



A123Powered said:


> Thanks, that is a really cool idea! It looks like you have soldered the cells into a pack, are you still using the stock spring?
> 
> uluapoundr:
> 
> ...


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## MorpheusT1 (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

VERY clean and nice mod :twothumbs


How many C or D Alkalines would it need to run a P7 sufficiently?


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## jag808808 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

How big a hole for the P7 is needed on the reflector?


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## darkzero (May 19, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



jag808808 said:


> How big a hole for the P7 is needed on the reflector?


 
I'd say the absolute minimum would be 15mm to be safe. The size of the Mag reflector opening (15.35mm) is perfect.


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## darkzero (May 21, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Original post updated with great feedback from the owner of this light.... :thumbsup:


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## uluapoundr (May 22, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Darkzero,
What a great response from the light owner. Thank you very much for sharing. I have to admit, I order a couple sets of 4/5C cells for my own build with those 2C purple lights I ordered. I can't wait to do them. I love my 3D, but having a 2C carry option is nice!


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## forrest (May 22, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Just looking at the batt. station store and the 4/5 c's only show 1250mah or the high rate at 1700mah, you show that yours are 2000mah, am I missing something? or was it a mis type on your end, I'm ready to order all the stuff and I really appreciate your help! thanx: Forrest


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## FightinCB (May 22, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

all-battery.com
Tenergy 4/5 Sub C HC NiMH 2000mAh
http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=17

MegaBatteries.com
http://www.megabatteries.com/item_details2.asp?id=14562&cat_id=227&uid=1431

Enjoy


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## addictedmatt (May 22, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

After reading the owners response, I want to build one now. Thanks for the idea!


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## uluapoundr (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

DarkZero,
What charger you using for the 4/5C? Do I need to charge them in a pack or is there a charger that will do them single? I bought the batteries and totally forgot about getting a charger. Got my 2C P7 built, but batteries arrived half charged. Only getting 1.8A at the tail. Dropped in a 18650 and pulling 3.0A.


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## darkzero (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

These cells were individual & not as a pack. They're standard 1.2v NiMhs. I used my old Vanson charger to charge them, one in each bay. Any Nicad/NiMh charger will charge them as long as you can fit/connect them.


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## VegasF6 (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Hmm, simple it may be, but sometimes that is best. You may have inspired me to use my Pewter 2C I just picked up. Also, perhaps it is time to attempt my first sputter 

What is the VF on the P7? Wouldn't voltage drop pretty quickly? Do you think 45 minutes run time is too optimistic?


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## Northern Lights (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

That is the type of mod I want to build! Maybe with AW cells. Thank you for sharing the build and helping me decide some design ideas.

Have you had the opprotunity to compare it to a modified MTE P7 in two or 5 mode? One that at least is comparable in current draw? I am curious in the difference in reflector outputs. Seems the LEDs can be driven about the same between the mods and modded factory lights but Your mod is closest to what I envision a P7 should look like. The head size may make a great difference. 
Again thanks for the tip and inspiration to mod on.


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## uluapoundr (May 27, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Darkzero,
Did you take any voltage and amp readings after building the light. I don't know why but I can't seem to get 2.8A out of the batteries I have. Perhaps it's my batteries. I have some cheap china 4/5 C 1900mah. Initial reading on charged batteries was 2.4A at the tailcap, then within seconds it dropped down to .80A and never went back up. I'm conditioning the batteries today, hopefully better results tomorrow. As I mentioned earlier, of a single 18650, I'm getting around 3A.


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## darkzero (May 27, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

VegasF6, I did not measure the vf on the emitter I had.

Northern Lights, I do not own any DX or KD P7 lights to compare with. I only have P7 Mag mods & a P7 Arc LS.

uluapoundr, with the cells I had 3A was the max I got but not for very long. After 1 min. it leveled off to 2.7A which is the reading I gave in the original post. I didn't expect the cells to give that much output. My cheap 3rd party NiMh Stinger pack (3000mah Sub Cs) only gave me 2.5A.


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## Aircraft800 (May 27, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Whoa! Great Build and ideas! That is a great and simple mod! What is the expected runtime? Great for a EDC and no complicating Li-Ion cells to worry about. Looks like total build would be ~$100 for ~800 lumens!! Awesome!


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## Aircraft800 (May 27, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



uluapoundr said:


> DarkZero,
> What charger you using for the 4/5C? Do I need to charge them in a pack or is there a charger that will do them single? I bought the batteries and totally forgot about getting a charger. Got my 2C P7 built, but batteries arrived half charged. Only getting 1.8A at the tail. Dropped in a 18650 and pulling 3.0A.


 
One of these Lenmar chargers would work great, and cheep $14.49.





I'm not sure it can go small enough, but at $14.49, it's worth modding or making a spacer.

I should try cramming one of these P7's in a stinger.....

Is the 4/5 C the same as the Sc NiMH Cell 4500 mAh - 30A rated - Highest capacity on market shown here? they would give >30min run but may need regulation due to the low internal resistance:thinking:


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## forrest (May 27, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Hey aircraft, check this post .https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/196273 I did this to my stinger and am doing another one soon works great so far, very happy with the lumens!


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## forrest (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

O/k I ordered all the things to make this mod. Just curious, I also have a modified tube to use an 18650 for the mag 2c, would the advantage of the 4/5c's over the 18650 be just longer run time? , Thanx!


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## darkzero (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



forrest said:


> O/k I ordered all the things to make this mod. Just curious, I also have a modified tube to use an 18650 for the mag 2c, would the advantage of the 4/5c's over the 18650 be just longer run time? , Thanx!


 
Yes, that's pretty much how I see it too.

BTW, thank you for the inspiration. I'm in the works of building a P7 Stinger HP mod for someone. I'll post it when it's complete.


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## darkzero (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Update: It's still running strong.... :wave:



> _Will,_
> 
> _The Mag 2CP7 you made for me is still running strong. In the short time that I have had it, It's been there and done that! Its been on entries, building searches, crime scenes ect..._
> _Ive dropped it so many times and it's still working. I think the fact that it is an LED helps! I have been in foot pursuits and dropped it hopping out of the car, dropped it hopping over a 6ft fences, had it roll off of a roof into mud... My team mates have even played soccer with (not really, it just got kicked around alot during a high risk traffic stop when I dropped it). I am really impressed that it still works after what I put it through. The glass lens is still intact, no scratches or cracks. I think the three 4/5 2200mah Sub C batteries put out more than 1 hour. If you are planning on making more of these, I will vouch for you work. I know a couple of guys from work want one of the "Darkzero" customs!_


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## addictedmatt (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

After reading this thread, I ended up building one of these, and I love it! It is my most used light by far. Thanks again for the idea!


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## Aircraft800 (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

*That's It, I'll have to build one*! 
Thanks for the updates!


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## kurni (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



darkzero said:


> Left: Mag2C CSWOI 3x4/5C2000, Right: Mag1C CSWOI GD3333



Oh, that's where GD3333 going; I was curious after seeing your triple sandwich


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## darkzero (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



kurni said:


> Oh, that's where GD3333 going; I was curious after seeing your triple sandwich


 
It went it to this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2454553#post2454553








:wave:


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## Bimmerboy (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



darkzero said:


> It went it to this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2454553#post2454553



Now that's nice! Pewter, GD3333, and a FM 2". Yeaaaahhhh boiiiiiii!

BTW, I just love the pic of big & little brother. :thumbsup:


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## Drewfus2101 (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Very nice and simple build. Simple is usually the best way. But this got me thinking and I'm trying to go more of the regulated AMC7135 route, so I need to use 4 NiMH batteries. I was looking at your picture and looked up those same batteries which measure 34mm in height. 

What are your thoughts on fitting 4 of those 4/5C in a 2C Mag? I know if would have to sit down in the tail cap some, and since I'm not at home, I can't measure the diameter of the tailcap. But the battery diamter is 3mm smaller than a C. I could always bore out the tailcap slightly. From the pics the length looks like it might work. 

I've also got a tail cap extender that I could throw on there to see if that would help along with modifying the switch some for a little more room, I just really want to stick to a 2C.


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## darkzero (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



Drewfus2101 said:


> What are your thoughts on fitting 4 of those 4/5C in a 2C Mag? I know if would have to sit down in the tail cap some, and since I'm not at home, I can't measure the diameter of the tailcap. But the battery diamter is 3mm smaller than a C. I could always bore out the tailcap slightly. From the pics the length looks like it might work.
> 
> I've also got a tail cap extender that I could throw on there to see if that would help along with modifying the switch some for a little more room, I just really want to stick to a 2C.


 
Good idea but 4 won't fit. As I posted above, 3 4/5Cs is pretty much the same length as 2 Cs. With 4 in a Mag2C they'll be longer than with the tailcap on. With an AW extender it might work, I don't have one on hand so I can't measure. The tailcap would definitely need to be bored out though since the 4/5C cells won't fit in it.


Here's a pic with 4 4/5Cs in a Mag2C:







Good luck with the build, please post if you get it figured out.


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## Drewfus2101 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

Thanks for the info and a great pic. I might have time to take some measurements of a 2C tonight. Looks like the tailcap diameter will be the part that kills this idea. With the Mag C ring and modifying the bottom of the switch I might get a little length, but there is only so much that can be done about the diameter of the tailcap. 

If I have to use a 3C I will. Although I'm seriously thinking about direct drive just to keep it small and simple.


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## darkzero (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



Drewfus2101 said:


> Thanks for the info and a great pic. I might have time to take some measurements of a 2C tonight. Looks like the tailcap diameter will be the part that kills this idea. With the Mag C ring and modifying the bottom of the switch I might get a little length, but there is only so much that can be done about the diameter of the tailcap.
> 
> If I have to use a 3C I will. Although I'm seriously thinking about direct drive just to keep it small and simple.


 
There's definitely room for the cell to fit inside the tailcap if bored out. If you bore out the tailcap, mount a shorter spring inside the tailcap, I think you'll be able to do it will an extender.


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## TexLite (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



darkzero said:


> There's definitely room for the cell to fit inside the tailcap if bored out. If you bore out the tailcap, mount a shorter spring inside the tailcap, I think you'll be able to do it will an extender.


 
The extender is a great idea.Four 4/5C cells in a 2C would make a great host,with quite a few drive options.

Thanks,
Michael


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## FredM (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

No need for a resistor or driver?


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## darkzero (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*



FredM said:


> No need for a resistor or driver?


 
Not with with 3 NiMhs. With 3 4500mah C size NiMhs I get around 3A. The cells that were used with this one were 2000mah 4/5 SubCs. I suspected absolutely no more than 2.4 - 2.5A but surprisingly with these cells I got 2.7A max draw. Either these were some good cells or the vf of the emitter was real low or both? The cells were provided by the owner.


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## raz (Apr 19, 2009)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x 4/5 SubC Mod - decrease in output?*

Hi All - bonafide newbie here fascinated with this forum. 

Recently finished my first mod to a Mag 2C using Darkzero's great instructions. I was absolutely amazed at initial light output - eye-watering to say the least! 

Following several demos for friends (no more than 10 mins of on time), I was again testing light - same dazzling brilliance initially, then followed by a discernable blue tint to the light for several seconds, and then light output dropped off dramatically and remains so. Tried another set of Ni MH batts (charge state unk) and it made no difference. 

Do you think this is a symptom of battery charge wearing down, failure of P7 emitter, or a problem with my mod techniques? All comments appreciated.


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## kz1000s1 (Apr 19, 2009)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x 4/5 SubC Mod - decrease in output?*

Was the "dazzling brilliance initially" the same brightness that it had originally, or was it brighter? The blue tint, what we refer to as an "angry blue" means the led is being run too hard. 
How did you attach the led to the heatsink? The best way is with Arctic Alumina epoxy. Is the led still attached?


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## raz (Apr 20, 2009)

Thanx for your rapid reply. Yes, brightnesss was consistent from first test until the blue tint episode (with dramatic decrease following). I did use Arctic Alumina epoxy to attach led. Do not have light with me as I post this, so currently unable to check led attachment security but will follow-up on that ASAP. 

Does the fact that I did have an "angry blue" episode mean that the P-7 has now been damaged/defraded?


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## kz1000s1 (Apr 20, 2009)

If you shut it off right away when it turned blue it could be ok. 
The "dramatic decrease following" doesn't sound good though.


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## nein166 (Apr 20, 2009)

raz sounds like your epoxy let go, a discharged battery won't make it blue only dimmer white. If you remove the led and try to set it again with the Arctic Alumina Epoxy give it a full hour to set up under slight pressure. Don't lay the epoxy on too thick more isn't better, just enough to squeeze out all around when pressed down. A pipe around the silicon dome pressing down on the black body of the P7 should do it. Even the wires tension can lift the led from the heatsink while the epoxy is hardening. Also your heatsink should have a tight fit to the body. If its loose some thermal compound or aluminum foil can close a gap.


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## raz (Apr 20, 2009)

Many thanx to both kz1000s1 and nein166 for the timely advice. 

I just checked security of led to heat sink and cannot move led around with finger pressure. On initial install of led to heatsink I did let epoxy dry overnight, but used no pressure. I elected to solder wires to led after attaching led to heatsink so don't think wire tension would have lifted led, but I'll chk it out.

If I opt to reset led, any advice on removing old epoxy from heatsink with minimum damage to anodize coating?

Regarding heat sink fit in body, it was definitely loose. I did find that surprising as I'd read about other mods where the heatsink took some force to press into body - should have litened to my instincts there, I guess. I did use thermal compund (though sparingly) on heatsink/tube interface but I like the idea of aluminum foil + thermal compound better to ensure tight fit.

Believe the next steps will be to ensure or repair led/heatsink attachment, tighten up heatsink fit into body and give it another whirl with freshly charged nimh batts. Thanx again for the advice folks - what a great forum!


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## nein166 (Apr 21, 2009)

Well then sounds like you did everything correct, I hope it was a battery issue and not permanent damage to the P7, I think I'll be making one of these after I finish my MC-E 2C.


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## supasizefries (Jul 14, 2009)

Just picked up a Mag 2C tonight to attempt this mod. I love the form factor of the Mag 2C! I'm planning on using a Britelumens C heatsink, unless the hot lips heat sink mod is easy. Anyway, slightly off topic, sorry, but anyone know what charger is used to charge the 4/5 sub C cells? I have a Lacrosse BC-900 and a Smartcharger NiMH pack charger but it says only to be used with 9.6 V and above.


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## lolzertank (Jul 17, 2009)

*Re: Mag2C SSC P7 3x4/5C Mod*

1x 18650 actually has more capacity than 3x 4/5 SubCs.



rizky_p said:


> Yeah i bought a 52mm for Penta Cree Q2 Mag and 35mm for my WF-400 the lens(windows) is really clear, i kind of surprised with result my self. Compared to normal glass the KD lens looks like it isnt even there.



Oh, and does anyone know how the KD glass does against UCL glass?


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