# Is this a fake Surefire?



## Norm (May 30, 2008)

Surefire M961 R2 CREE LED Tactical Flashlight 300 Lumen - eBay Scopes, Optics Lasers, Hunting, Outdoor Sports, Sporting Goods. (end time 31-May-08 14:04:17 AEST)
Looks very dodgy to me.
Norm


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## DaFABRICATA (May 30, 2008)

Yes, it is NOT a surefire. Just a clone


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## koala (May 30, 2008)

Hello Norm,

I was discussing this with yclo the other day, it seems to be a good copy of SF clone, probably coming from the same factory as the SF M3 clone. The M961 never have a CREE in it.

I don't like the way it was advertised.
"*This is exactly the same flashlight from Surefire, except this doesn't not have the Surefire logo."
*
And look at the title says "Surefire M961..." clearly it's a 'trap'.

Comon all Surefire fans report to ebay now, and bring it down!!!
item number: 370054584488


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## Crenshaw (May 30, 2008)

it looks nice though....:duck:

Crenshaw


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## PhantomPhoton (May 30, 2008)

Surefire doesn't use a "factory." As I understand it they do pretty much everything in house on their own, or I guess you could say they have their own factory. Therefore I doubt it came from the same factory as real SF lights.


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## RadarGreg (May 30, 2008)

I've been to the Surefire factory, and there is not an assembly line turning out real Surefire lights and one turning out fakes. Some special lights, like ones with the strike bezel or the porcupine, were produced outside the US, but those are the exceptions. The CNC machines are running constantly out in Fountain Valley, CA, producing their Surefire products. Really cool stuff to watch.


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## Aluminous (May 30, 2008)

For future reference to help with spotting more fakes once this auction is gone, here is a copy of the fraudulent listing:



> Surefire M961 R2 CREE LED Tactical Flashlight 300 Lumen
> 
> Listed in category: Sporting Goods > Outdoor Sports > Hunting > Scopes, Optics & Lasers > Lights & Lasers
> Item location:	Marshall's Military Products, Hong Kong
> ...


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## LukeA (May 30, 2008)

At least it seems well-made.


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## Size15's (May 30, 2008)

RadarGreg said:


> I've been to the Surefire factory, and there is not an assembly line turning out real Surefire lights and one turning out fakes. Some special lights, like ones with the strike bezel or the porcupine, were produced outside the US, but those are the exceptions. The CNC machines are running constantly out in Fountain Valley, CA, producing their Surefire products. Really cool stuff to watch.


Are you 100% certain that the Porcupines were "produced outside the US"?
They are made specifically for an Asian SureFire Dealer that's all.
The only differences are the Porcupine Strike Bezel (recently in Stainless Steel) and laser etching. All done at SureFires facilities in the USA.


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## RadarGreg (May 30, 2008)

It was about a half year ago, but a certain engineer at SF we both know said the strike bezel versions were made for the SEALs who needed an entry light with a bit more "teeth" than a E2D. Since it was a it more threatening a product than they would normally produce, it was produced elsewhere. Their facility in CA could certainly produce the porcupine or anything else for that matter. I may have misunderstood him as I was in awe at the tour, so please forgive me if I'm mistaken. CNC machining is done at the Fountain Valley facility, but anodizing is outsourced due to environmental restrictions.


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## Size15's (May 30, 2008)

I believe you misunderstood. I've heard the same story...
The concept of such an aggressive Strike Bezel was not taken forward for general production but it caught the eye of SureFire fans in Asia and SureFire produced limited batches _for_ elsewhere (an Asian SureFire Dealer/Distributor has the exclusive deal on Porcupine editions)
I know that SureFire produced the L2-PP in-house because PK said they didn't bother to tumble the Stainless Steel Porcupine ring so that its edges would be 'sharp' - I have one and indeed it is 'sharp' compared to my L6-PP.

I understand it is normal for companies to use dedicated anodising firms due to the strict safety and environmental regulations etc required. It's a messy and dangerous business. SureFire ensure the very best performance from the subcontractors they use. The anodising is done in the USA by a firm not too far from SureFire I believe.

Al


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## stitch_paradox (May 30, 2008)

Size15's said:


> I understand it is normal for companies to use dedicated anodising firms due to the strict safety and environmental regulations etc required. It's a messy and dangerous business. SureFire ensure the very best performance from the subcontractors they use. The anodising is done in the USA by a firm not too far from SureFire I believe.
> 
> Al



I agree with this. If the anodizing is outsourced then they wouldn't be able to call their products "Made in the USA" (I learned that from the other thread), thus losing the US military contract. But we all know who provides the illumination tools of the US military.


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## LukeA (May 30, 2008)

stitch_paradox said:


> I agree with this. If the anodizing is outsourced then they wouldn't be able to call their products "Made in the USA" (I learned that from the other thread), thus losing the US military contract. But we all know who provides the illumination tools of the US military.


Deleted - just woke up


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## Size15's (May 30, 2008)

stitch_paradox said:


> I agree with this. If the anodizing is outsourced then they wouldn't be able to call their products "Made in the USA" (I learned that from the other thread), thus losing the US military contract. But we all know who provides the illumination tools of the US military.


I assume you mean 'outsourced _outside the USA_' would be an issue.
Outsourced does not imply 'not in the USA' - it simply means not done in-house - work is subcontracted.

Al


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## stitch_paradox (May 30, 2008)

Size15's said:


> I assume you mean 'outsourced _outside the USA_' would be an issue.
> Outsourced does not imply 'not in the USA' - it simply means not done in-house - work is subcontracted.
> 
> Al



yes that what I meant: Subcontracted. Still good to know that it's 100% made here.


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## tvodrd (May 30, 2008)

Between Orange County and the south half of LA there are ~20 anodizers who bother to advertise on MSN yellow pages. (A couple I've used didn't show.) I've used at least 6 of them in the last 30 years. I visited a Vacuum metallizer in Santa Ana who had some SF reflectors among other things, on the rep's desk! It's hardly "outsourcing!" I reside ~10mi from SF, and haven't yet made the time to take PK up on the offer of a tour. 

Larry (Typing on a brand new keyboard cuz my olde one took a dump today.)


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## TORCH_BOY (May 30, 2008)

it looks nice, Tempting for the price what ever this light is


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## darkzero (May 31, 2008)

How about this one?

http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=4830

Surefire from KD? :thinking:


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## pbs357 (May 31, 2008)

"This is exactly the same flashlight from Surefire except it doens't have the logos"... or the lifetime warranty...or the same quality of build... and scratch the fact that it has an LED. BUT IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME FLASHLIGHT. BLAH BLAH BLAH. It's such crap when people do stuff like this.:thumbsdow


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## climberkid (May 31, 2008)

the saddest part about it all is that people dont look into it. they just assume that it is what it says it is. thats why i love this place. we all care enough to say "what? no way":shakehead


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## how (May 31, 2008)

Once I noticed the airsoftmarshall.com banner and Hong Kong, that pretty much said it clone to me. Don't get me wrong though. There are many other Airsoft retailers that sell real Surefires, it's just that chinese clones are becoming very popular in airsoft.


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## Size15's (May 31, 2008)

It doesn't look like a real SureFire to me - the details are all wrong.


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## Aluminous (May 31, 2008)

climberkid said:


> the saddest part about it all is that people dont look into it. they just assume that it is what it says it is. thats why i love this place. we all care enough to say "what? no way":shakehead


Yeah, 11 people bid on this one, and the auction has now closed with the final price at US$75, plus at least $35 shipping, equals $110!  I think about a third as many bidders and about a third of that price would've been more reasonable/expected. For that price, they could've just bought a great legit light instead (although not this '$350' one).


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## Mercaptan (Jun 2, 2008)

Ding ding ding.


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## Monocrom (Jun 2, 2008)

Crenshaw said:


> it looks nice though....:duck:
> 
> Crenshaw


 
So do most hookers standing on the street corner..... I wouldn't buy what they're selling, either. :thumbsdow


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## Crenshaw (Jun 2, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> So do most hookers standing on the street corner..... I wouldn't buy what they're selling, either. :thumbsdow


:touche:
touche...

Crenshaw


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## Monocrom (Jun 2, 2008)

Crenshaw said:


> :touche:
> touche...
> 
> Crenshaw


 
:lolsign:

Hope you didn't take my previous comment as a personal jab at you.
Clearly, not my intention.

We still cool? :grouphug:


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## MikeSalt (Jun 2, 2008)

Just looking at the threads, I can tell it is not a genuine Surefire. That is where you really can tell the difference.


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## Glen C (Jun 2, 2008)

Well spotted Norm. If Ebay cared about their clients they would not allow people who told outright lies like this to trade through their site


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## stitch_paradox (Jun 2, 2008)

Can people report this to ebay?? False Advertising?


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