# Are 26650 LED Flashlights relevant?



## roadkill1109 (Mar 1, 2012)

In today's world of modern LED flashlights, do 26650-cell flashlights present the best possible run times? I've seen 800+ lumen lights that run off these 26650 3000 or 4000 mAh cells, are they worth taking note of?

How come the major flashlight manufacturers (except for the S12 of 4Sevens) do not carry lights that use these cells?

Is it worth it to invest in such a battery format?

Any thoughts, comments please.


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## scottyhazzard (Mar 1, 2012)

I like to think that the big manufacturers will follow the trend that is slowly growing in the custom made flashlight world. Some of the lights that are pushing the envelope here on CPF that come in 26650 flavor are really solid performers, great for extended use outside. I wonder why police use the big 3D or 4D mag lights when they could have one of these efficient sized lights that pump out serious lumens. Ahh, probably a pipe dream. I think that it is a wonderful size and capacity and I hope it catches on.


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## Norm (Mar 1, 2012)

This thread is about the 26650 cell format rather than any particular LED flashlight. 

Moving to Flashlight-Electronics-Batteries-Included. 

Norm


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## HKJ (Mar 2, 2012)

roadkill1109 said:


> In today's world of modern LED flashlights, do 26650-cell flashlights present the best possible run times?



No, the best LiIon cells is 18650. It contains not as much energy as a 26650, but is much smaller. I.e. a light with enough 18650 to match a 26650 in size/weight will have longer runtime.


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## jasonck08 (Mar 2, 2012)

HKJ said:


> No, the best LiIon cells is 18650. It contains not as much energy as a 26650, but is much smaller. I.e. a light with enough 18650 to match a 26650 in size/weight will have longer runtime.



It's not always about energy density, but about building a light with enough thermal mass to cope with a high drive current. The X10 and S12 are a good example of that. I do think we will see more 26650 lights in the future. One thing that is some-what discouraging this though is that the company making the 4000mAh IMR 26650's is no longer making them...


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## A10K (Mar 2, 2012)

I found that the 4Sevens 26650 was cheaper per W/hr than an equivalent amount of quality 18650's--it has more capacity than any AW or Redilast cell, and is cheaper to boot. I bought one when I was putting together a custom bike light for that reason. (Due to life circumstances, I have a battery and charger but still no light... maybe in a few months).


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## 357mag1 (Mar 2, 2012)

jasonck08 said:


> It's not always about energy density, but about building a light with enough thermal mass to cope with a high drive current. The X10 and S12 are a good example of that. I do think we will see more 26650 lights in the future. One thing that is some-what discouraging this though is that the company making the 4000mAh IMR 26650's is no longer making them...



I bought those supposed 4000mah 26650 IMR cells from Light Hound, FiveMega and Battery Space. Never had one test out much higher than 3000mah at a 2amp discharge. I know Mac had tested some of those cells and had charts showing they reached rated capacity. I have 24 cells and not one went much over 3000mah on two different hobby chargers.

The 2300mah rated AW IMR 26500 cell does about 2100mah at a 2amp discharge rate. I don't see how adding 150mm of length can get you to 4000mah.

If you consider quality IMR 18650 cells were only rated for 1600mah it is hard to figure out how an IMR 26650 has 2.5 times the capacity. If that worked for regular Li-Co cells even using the 2600mah 18650 as a reference we should have 6500mah 26650 cells. It just doesn't add up. Just my two cents.

I see Battery Space has a "New Generation" LiNiCoMn cell that is advertised as 3600mah. Being "New Generation" you would think it would be rated higher than the old cell. Maybe it is just more realisticly rated.


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## yellow (Mar 2, 2012)

size disadvantage of light can not compete with any 18650 light 
(with an additional spare cell to swtich, if need arises)


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## texas cop (Mar 2, 2012)

26650 is another option just like cars, not everyone only goes for 1 style, I have a few 18650's and 26650's. For me the 18650's handle most everything, but I've got a few high/low 26650's high pumps out nearly 10 amps low perferred at 1 amp. I do perfer single cell lights so double 18650's just didn't go for me.


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## TadpolePilot (Mar 2, 2012)

26650's Rock!
Just received a Shadow JM07 Pro 26650 and it is a littler fatter and the same lengeth size as the 18650's.
The 26650 makes my L2P SolarForce a give-away light to my 1st wife.
This is the wave of the future!
I shall only look to purchase the new 26650's. 
I carry mine on a neck lanyard inside the shirt or in the pocket.
Mr. Norm does that mean we now have a 26650 sight I hope so?


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## OneBigDay (Mar 3, 2012)

1x26650 is a great format I think. I have 6 lights that use this format - 4 FM, 1 TnC, and the JM07 Pro. A 33 mm or 42 mm head is a great head size on these lights, but even a small head for P60 dropins works well in this format.

I prefer single cell lights so I would rather have a fat light than a long light, they are easier to put in a bag or in your pocket. Most 18650 lights have a wider head than body so from my POV these lights are not really smaller if you consider the widest part (the head) as part of the overall footprint. 1x18650 is a great format too of course, but the 26650 feels great in the hand.

Heat-synching mass is a great benefit and really does seem to make a difference. Also for me one of the deciding factors to investing in this format was that since the 65 mm length is the same for 26650 and 18650, you can always run an 18650 in a sleeve inside the tube in a pinch. And as the power source experts are pointing out, the 4000 mah capacity rating may not be as advertised, and now 18650's are up to 3100 mah (last I noticed). But since you can pop an 18650 in just the same, you get the best of both worlds or at least options. Because of the larger volume of a 26650, it at least has the potential to have more capacity than an 18650. I'll leave it to the experts to decide if we are there or not.

I had some email communications with battery space and they said the 26650 was one of their best selling cells. That says something about what people are looking for. I don't know how the discharge rates measure out in real life, but on paper the high (10C rated I believe) discharge rate is another thing that attracted people to the 26650. You could run a VanIsleDSM or Kerberos Quad without worrying about blowing yourself up or being on the fence of the 18650's maximum rated discharge.

Just my $.02 but I personally hope this format continues to gain in popularity and that we will see quality 26650 cells produced in the future. 47's is now making 26650 lights as well as TnC and Mac's customs, so I think this format will be around for a while with the only real worry being that the format is Niche enough that finding 26650 cells could become impossible at some point, but that's a risk I'm willing to take and enjoying my lights in the meantime. Nothing is entirely future proof so how much can you worry?


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## 357mag1 (Mar 3, 2012)

Just because those IMR 26650 cells didn't meet capacity doesn't mean I didn't see a use for them. I have about 15 26650 lights and I feel better when the current draw is around 3amps or more using the larger format. There is no question they should handle high current better. I've tested the 4Sevens 26650 (the one rated for the S18) and at 2amps discharge current all my samples exceeded 4000mah so at 3900mah rating it is fairly rated. The only problem is the protection circuit seems to kick in and the batteries won't work at a 3.4amp draw in my 1185 light.


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## yellow (Mar 3, 2012)

OneBigDay said:


> I had some email communications with battery space and they said the 26650 was one of their best selling cells. That says something about what people are looking for.


this mainly is (was?) because the 26650 is an unobtainable, and when there "suddenly" a source is known, all the purchases - hold on by the few ppl wanting cells in the format - are done till stock is depleted.
Or did they sell the battries in the thousands?



it is really interesting, how differently each of us sees "size".
Sure the heads are the same diameter, but the thin tail makes the 18650s pocketable for me, 
while the 26xxx really can only be put into some bag.






PS: I still think that the 26xxx do not offer enough capacity in comparison to its bigger size to the 18650s.
When this finally changes ...


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## jasonck08 (Mar 4, 2012)

357mag1 said:


> I bought those supposed 4000mah 26650 IMR cells from Light Hound, FiveMega and Battery Space. Never had one test out much higher than 3000mah at a 2amp discharge. I know Mac had tested some of those cells and had charts showing they reached rated capacity. I have 24 cells and not one went much over 3000mah on two different hobby chargers.
> 
> The 2300mah rated AW IMR 26500 cell does about 2100mah at a 2amp discharge rate. I don't see how adding 150mm of length can get you to 4000mah.
> 
> ...



I use to sell IMR 26650's sourced from a company called MNKE. I tested many of these cells and had some test as high as 4100-4200mAh. So there are high capacity 26650 IMR's out there, however MNKE is no longer making the 4000mAh 26650's, as I mentioned before.

Also your logic about cell capacities isn't quite right. First off, the most money by FAR goes into 18650 R&D. There are over 1 Billion 18650's made every year. The "big boys" aka Sanyo, Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, LG etc, may not even be making 26650's anymore, and if they are, they haven't made any improvements to capacity in years. Could Panasonic make a 6000mAh 26650, absolutely, but there is not enough demand, so they can't be bothered.

The AW 2300mAh 26500 is a relatively low energy density cell, which you are comparing to MNKE's 4000mAh IMR's (the only company that made real 4000mAh IMR 26650's) which were at the top of their game, the highest capacity 26650's by 500mAh. The other mainstream Chinese companies making IMR 26650's only max out at about 3500mAh now. But There are 26650 LiCo cells on the market with ~4500mAh capacity.


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## Erzengel (Mar 4, 2012)

In the past, LiIon cells were mostly manufactured for Laptop batteries. Therefore, the 18650 format was produced in billions and investments in new technology manufacturing assemblies were only made for 18650s. In Germany (and maybe in other countries too) we have a beginning boom of electric bicycles (called Pedelec over here). The manufacturers of these bicycles prefer the 26650 cells because this will reduce the number of cells wired in one bike. Developments like this might increase the investments in more modern manufacturing assemblies for 26650s.


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## yellow (Mar 4, 2012)

while I agree to that point, I personally think thats just a "beginners" stage of "modding" ... putting some "cells" together to drive some application.
Thats garage shop put-together but not high tech, high scale consumer products production

*REAL* electric gadgets (computers & devices, bikes, cars, ...) should not use cylindrical cells which waste much room, but should be made out of some kind of "fillable" :thinking: material.
Is that f.e. Li-Po?


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## lightseeker2009 (Mar 4, 2012)

Well I've read that Panasonic will bring out 3400mah 18650's. They are very close to 26650...


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## 357mag1 (Mar 4, 2012)

jasonck08 said:


> I use to sell IMR 26650's sourced from a company called MNKE. I tested many of these cells and had some test as high as 4100-4200mAh. So there are high capacity 26650 IMR's out there, however MNKE is no longer making the 4000mAh 26650's, as I mentioned before.
> 
> Also your logic about cell capacities isn't quite right. First off, the most money by FAR goes into 18650 R&D. There are over 1 Billion 18650's made every year. The "big boys" aka Sanyo, Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, LG etc, may not even be making 26650's anymore, and if they are, they haven't made any improvements to capacity in years. Could Panasonic make a 6000mAh 26650, absolutely, but there is not enough demand, so they can't be bothered.
> 
> The AW 2300mAh 26500 is a relatively low energy density cell, which you are comparing to MNKE's 4000mAh IMR's (the only company that made real 4000mAh IMR 26650's) which were at the top of their game, the highest capacity 26650's by 500mAh. The other mainstream Chinese companies making IMR 26650's only max out at about 3500mAh now. But There are 26650 LiCo cells on the market with ~4500mAh capacity.



Those MNKE cells are what I got from Light Hound and never had one test much over 3000mah using a 2amp discharge rate to 3v. I don't figure Mac lied about getting 4000mah from the cells he tested. I just haven't ever found one to test that high in capacity.


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## Quest4fire (Mar 4, 2012)

> I bought those supposed 4000mah 26650 IMR cells from Light Hound, FiveMega and Battery Space. Never had one test out much higher than 3000mah at a 2amp discharge. I know Mac had tested some of those cells and had charts showing they reached rated capacity. I have 24 cells and not one went much over 3000mah on two different hobby chargers.
> 
> The 2300mah rated AW IMR 26500 cell does about 2100mah at a 2amp discharge rate. I don't see how adding 150mm of length can get you to 4000mah.
> 
> ...



I've bought quite a few LiMnNi 26650 cells from battery space, primarily for use in hotwire mags. Mine have an end discharge voltage of 2.5V. To get the full 4000mAh out of them I have to take them down to 2.5V. Usually I don't take them below 3.0V but sometimes I do discharge them to between 3.0 and 2.5V.


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## TEEJ (Mar 4, 2012)

I like the 26650 lights I have. The amp supply capacity is very useful, and the difference in handle size between the 26650 and the 18650 lights I have is not that big a deal to me at least. That said, I have more lights that use 18650 than anything else, but it was just that's typically the most popular battery size to design a light around.

I don't think 4sevens for example looked at a particular EDC light they were planning, and said to themselves, "hey, we can make it just as bright and run just as long with an 18650 as a 26650, but lets use the 26650 anyway".

I think they looked at it as an engineering consideration, and said "How can we make it brighter and last longer?"

Otherwise, why go with a 26650 instead of a 18650 in the S12 for example? Making it fatter, making it take a battery that might require a new charger, etc, means some people would pass on it, and get a light that uses a format they already have, etc. There had to be ENOUGH of a benefit to make it WORTH going with the 26650 over the 18650.

And so forth.


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## TadpolePilot (Mar 4, 2012)

Cops used what is issued.
They are tools some few people like good tools enough to pay for them.


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## jasonck08 (Mar 4, 2012)

357mag1 said:


> Those MNKE cells are what I got from Light Hound and never had one test much over 3000mah using a 2amp discharge rate to 3v. I don't figure Mac lied about getting 4000mah from the cells he tested. I just haven't ever found one to test that high in capacity.



To be honest the ones sold by LH, BatterySpace etc, appeared to be old cells from MNKE, probably sitting in storage for over 2 years. However I bought one from them from one of these sources to test out, and it did about 3800mAh on my CBA. The markings were different than the ones I imported directly through MNKE, that were capable of 4100-4200mAh.







Above is one of my tests from a fresh cell. You may notice a 2.45 cutoff, this is because my CBA is off by about .04v. Capacity = 4192mAh.


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## SubLGT (Oct 1, 2014)

It's been 2.5 years since this thread was started, and it does not seem that flashlights powered by a single 26650 have gained in popularity over that time. Perhaps if and when a 26650 battery with 7000mAh is available, that format will take off???


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## fivemega (Oct 2, 2014)

*If main concern is run time, 2 parallel 18650 (3.4mAh) will run much longer than any available 26650
Parallel system even wins when you need current capability.

But if you concern about simplicity, then IMR 26650 is your choice.*


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## realista (Oct 2, 2014)

this is true fivemega. an host could be made with 2 x 18650 side by side forming a rectangle.... like the fenix tk35, i had it in the hand and i can say it is quite comfortable to hold on.


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## yellow (Oct 2, 2014)

merged threads are funny ...



I still have the same problem(s) 357mag1 mentionned (post #7).
in standard application (= P60 insert) there is no difference between the 18650s, 26650s and 26500s I have, that "force" me to use the noticeably bigger lights, hence the 18650s usually run longest.
hiker/backpacker --> 18650

maybe for high drain applications?
:thinking:


PS: there are models to be found, even at the cheapo offerings ...
PPS: 7.000 mA, jup, definitly (but when 18650 then offers 5000 --> no)


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## StorminMatt (Oct 7, 2014)

yellow said:


> merged threads are funny ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, things have changed. And 26650s now offer significant advantages as far as capacity vs 18650s. These days, you can get a 5200mAH 26650. But 18650s are still stuck at 3400mAH (well, 3600mAH if you count the NCR18650G, but that's said to be more of a 3500mAH cell). The fact that 26650s are getting bigger and 18650s aren't suggests that there simply isn't enough real estate for more capacity with 18650s. But 26650s have room to grow. In other words, you are FAR more likely to see a 7000mAH 26650 than a 5000mAH 18650.


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## Timothybil (Oct 9, 2014)

Well, someone must still like 26650s. Battery Junction is advertising the LumaPower Strive in both 26650 and 18650 models. The 26650 model offers five modes from 8 to 830 lumens plus strobe. The 8 lumen low is rated at *416* hours run time. The 18650 model offers the same modes but only about half the run time. 
Just got the October BJ newsletter today and saw the Strive advertised, and thought I would share it with you guys that are interested in the 26650 form factor.


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## texas cop (Oct 9, 2014)

I now have more 26650's than 18650 lights. I prefer single cell lights and the 26650's can now do 5200-5400 mah (5400 mah from a KingKong 26700 at 3 amps.) Lights under 2 amps 18650's are great, start pushing 3-6 amps and the 26650 really shines.:candle:


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## SubLGT (Oct 9, 2014)

Timothybil said:


> Well, someone must still like 26650s. Battery Junction is advertising the LumaPower Strive in both 26650 and 18650 models. The 26650 model offers five modes from 8 to 830 lumens plus strobe. The 8 lumen low is rated at *416* hours run time. The 18650 model offers the same modes but only about half the run time……………..



I see 4 modes, plus strobe, in the description at BJ: 830, 332, 83, 8 lm


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## Timothybil (Oct 9, 2014)

SubLGT said:


> I see 4 modes, plus strobe, in the description at BJ: 830, 332, 83, 8 lm



Five modes: the four various light intensities and strobe. Sorry if I didn't phrase it properly.

I'm bummed. I thought I was being so helpful getting the word out on the Strive, then find out it has been out since early this year. Oh well.


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## StorminMatt (Oct 9, 2014)

Any idea how modable this light is? I like the looks of it. But I don't find the cool white emitter too appealing.


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## SubLGT (Oct 9, 2014)

If you order direct from LumaPower you have the option of neutral white and warm white for an extra $2.00


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## SubLGT (Oct 9, 2014)

Timothybil said:


> Five modes: the four various light intensities and strobe. Sorry if I didn't phrase it properly.
> 
> I'm bummed. I thought I was being so helpful getting the word out on the Strive, then find out it has been out since early this year. Oh well.



Apparently, there is a V2 of the Luma Power Strive available in the European market with 5 power levels (100%, 50%, 25%, 10%, 1%), plus strobe, SOS, and lighthouse. I saw it online at the German shop MSITC.


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