# 64458 bulb advice



## mr.squatch (Jan 8, 2008)

Ok, I've finally settled on my choice of bulb for the monster duo projects. Curious to hear other people's opinions and stories on using this bulb. The 64458 has better mid range (overdriven) numbers than most others that are maxed out at 21-22v. I plan to run it at 18.5v and hope to get around 8000 lumens out the front. Have most of the parts to start, should be quite an adventure.  I'll post up my results, you guys post up what you think of the idea. Also looking for a mag switch solution for this lil monster if there are any. Thanks to Lux and Jimmy for the past posts and info/research. Can't wait to see this baby burn.  


g


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 9, 2008)

It will work at that voltage, but it wants to go a bit higher if possible...like 20V. You need to get the *Judco *10A switch. Do a search for that word, I have posted about it, and a link to ordering it. Respect the current, and don't push it for too long. Let head heat be your guide.


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## Raoul_Duke (Jan 9, 2008)

What parts do you have?

Not sure if you will get 8000 lumens TBH, I think the figures for this may be a bit off, 
If you look at this thread 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179748
the 64623 and the 64458 the lux readings arn't far off each other, and the 623 is said to be 3000 lumens. 

Who Know what the real lumens value is, but the 458 is bright, screams at 21V at the pins. :devil:


What host/ cells do you have in mind?


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## mr.squatch (Jan 9, 2008)

Well, my easy cells plan fell thru, so now I'm in search of some that will work. Jimmy recommend I use A123 or eOne Moli cells. I don't know much about either, more research to do I guess  I'm still set on the bulb, got a switch figured out now (thanks guys). If you know of a good source for either of these batts, or a good source of info on either lemme know. It's googletime I guess. :candle:

g


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## JimmyM (Jan 9, 2008)

If you use 5 eOne Molis that's 21V off the charger and 18-18.5V nominal. I'd skip the Judco switch and use a MOSFET. It will have lower resistance which will translate to less heat. The IRF1324-7P will work fine at these voltages. Use a 1.5K resistor from the switch to the gate and a 3.3K resistor from the gate to ground. This will keep the gate voltage from going too high. I have 2 of these MOSFETs at home and an evil thought just hit me. A Dual MOSFET "Super switch". I know, people will tell me that it's stupid. You don't need more than 1. But I'm kind of prone to overkill.


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## Raoul_Duke (Jan 9, 2008)

I have built a 64458 with 5 emoli, ( and 6 but thats to much without some way of holding back some juice)

and it is great, but you need a 7C or 6D mag to get it all in.

I could probably get it all in a 5D just, but it would involve no stock switch, and a lot of moving things about to shoe horn it in there.


jimjones3630, sells them
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/178188

Petrev, Jim and I have have all played with the 64458 with emolis. Have a Google search for that or search under our user names and you'll find some info


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## mr.squatch (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm thinking this is the way to go, 6d mag with 5 emoli. Can I fit em in my 6c? I need to do some measuring tonite. I'm not too good with figuring things like resistors and mosfets but I can solder really well. I liked the idea of the disk somebody posted up where I simply solder it in under the base and wire it from the switch to the bulb. I think I could manage the mosfet/resistor way if I had a picture to go by and a parts list so I didn't mess that up. lol. Thanks guys for all the help, My monster is coming together nicely. :thumbsup:


g


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## JimmyM (Jan 10, 2008)

If you can solder, you can build a MOSFET switch. They're really quite simple.
I'll see if I can etch a board for you this weekend. Then it's as easy as soldering your own parts on it. You can use SMD resistors (tiny chips) or regular thru-hole resistors.


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## RickB (Jan 10, 2008)

I have thought about building a 64458-based light for a while. How about a quad-bored 4D mag, with a 16-cell Elite 1700 battery pack (if LuxLuthor will make one)? That gives a nominal 19.2 volts. If it really is necessary to push it further, you could add the 17th cell like Lux does for the 15.6 volt packs...

-Rick


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## mr.squatch (Jan 10, 2008)

Ah man that'd be awesome, thanks for all the help Jimmy, you're the man 


g




JimmyM said:


> If you can solder, you can build a MOSFET switch. They're really quite simple.
> I'll see if I can etch a board for you this weekend. Then it's as easy as soldering your own parts on it. You can use SMD resistors (tiny chips) or regular thru-hole resistors.


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## mr.squatch (Jan 10, 2008)

Are there AA nimh batteries that can handle the power? I have eneloops and sanyo 1700's right now, enough to make an 18v pack out of either. hmmm



g


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## RickB (Jan 10, 2008)

mr.squatch said:


> Are there AA nimh batteries that can handle the power? I have eneloops and sanyo 1700's right now, enough to make an 18v pack out of either. hmmm



Well, according to LuxLuthor's testing, at 19.2 volts, the 64458 will draw between 10.1 and 10.3 amps.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2218688

The load graph at CheapBatteryPacks shows that, with a 10 amp draw, the Elite 1700 AAs will hold over 1.2 volts for over half their capacity.
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/cellinfo.asp?invid=ELITE1700AA

According to SilverFox's testing, the Titanium Powermax 1800 AAs are probably the next best bet, although some have reported quality control issues with them.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/920843

Unfortunately, it looks like this load is a bit past the edge for Eneloops... I can't find any info for Sanyo 1700s.

I'm kinda waiting for Lux to chime in with his thoughts on the feasibility of a 16-cell quad-stack AA pack...

-Rick


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## mr.squatch (Jan 11, 2008)

I'm looking at a 5d mag with 3wide AA's for a total of 15 cells. That should put me in the right volt range and also give me the host to later go to 5x emoli's. With the cost of the elite 1700's x15 I think I may just skip that step and go straight to the emolis. Picking up the light host tomorrow, then to the machine shop that should gimme a day or two to decide. 


g


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 11, 2008)

.....<Lux enters, stage left>........oh yeah, you need the higher current cells, exactly as you identified, RickB. The best I have found for high current output in AA size are the Elite 1700mAh from CBP. I have made 16 cell packs for a 4D...even a 21 cell pack for my Elephant Mag  (3 stacks of 7 wide)

The Sanyo and Eneloops will not handle that 10A range of current output very well, if at all. Another option is the 2/3A Elite 1500mAh in a tribore Mag D. If you want to get real creative, you can also use the newer A123/Emoli 18650 size safe Li-Ion cells in a bi-bore (or diffusely bored) Mag D.

In a 5D/6D you have options like Emoli, or A123 regular size.


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## Raoul_Duke (Jan 11, 2008)

mr.squatch said:


> I'm looking at a 5d mag with 3wide AA's for a total of 15 cells. That should put me in the right volt range and also give me the host to later go to 5x emoli's. With the cost of the elite 1700's x15 I think I may just skip that step and go straight to the emolis. Picking up the light host tomorrow, then to the machine shop that should gimme a day or two to decide.
> 
> 
> g



5 emoli and 5D dont fit.

5 x 60mm D cells = 300mm
5 x emoli ( 70mm) = 350mm

you can get an extra ~20mm putting the emoli in the tailcap, but still have to find 30mm.

i managed buy removing the switch, and using a different switch, but its not perfect, and the cells are realy near the hot end if that concerns you.

You could get a FM 37mm extention, or a 6D


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## mr.squatch (Jan 11, 2008)

Raoul_Duke said:


> 5 emoli and 5D dont fit.




I only did the math ten times, you can't expect me to get it right  

That's ok, I found a red 6d host today 

g


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## jimjones3630 (Jan 13, 2008)

With the lowest resistance in the switch the 458 gets hot. Too hot to hold after 10min continous run. 

Nice thing about a 6D has plenty room for insulation.


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## mr.squatch (Jan 13, 2008)

I don't expect to run it over a minute at any one time. More of a fun light than a user  I found a beauty of a red 6d host to put it all in. Had no idea til recently that red was available in 5 and 6 d's. Should be able to start this lil project by next weekend. Have yet to search for a source for the 64458 bulb yet, any points in the right direction? Thanks to everyone for all the help, can't wait to see the end result of this project


g


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## jimjones3630 (Jan 13, 2008)

here is one

http://www.bulbconnection.com/ViewItem/bcrw/itmid/1666/oc/64458S/item.html


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## JimmyM (Jan 13, 2008)

The 458 I built using 4Ah 1/2Ds could run for 8 minutes before it got too hot to hold at the head.

I'll see if I can etch that MOSFET switch board today. I'm in the home stretch of finishing the latest batch of softstarters. That's eating up all my time.


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## JimmyM (Jan 13, 2008)

mr.squatch said:


> Ah man that'd be awesome, thanks for all the help Jimmy, you're the man
> 
> 
> g


OK boards are etched. I made 6 since I had a board that was that size.
I've got the parts to build a single MOSFET switch set up for 5 moli cells.
If you want, I can assemble one, just charge you for parts and send another board that's unpopulated.


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## mr.squatch (Jan 13, 2008)

JimmyM said:


> OK boards are etched. I made 6 since I had a board that was that size.
> I've got the parts to build a single MOSFET switch set up for 5 moli cells.
> If you want, I can assemble one, just charge you for parts and send another board that's unpopulated.



pm returned. JimmyM for president

g


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## jimjones3630 (Jan 13, 2008)

10 min run in D size host, too hot to touch half way down body and by the tail just warm. Will have to do another full burn with insulation. Since have short periods of run time with insulation and can feel the light is running cooler. 

Still not found a reflector source for higher heat tolerances above 300w. Big plus for 64458 mods is the lack of reports or lack of occurance of damaged reflectors.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 13, 2008)

JimmyM said:


> OK boards are etched. I made 6 since I had a board that was that size.
> I've got the parts to build a single MOSFET switch set up for 5 moli cells.
> If you want, I can assemble one, just charge you for parts and send another board that's unpopulated.



Jimmy's "The Man" !!! :twothumbs Coming off that Patriots win--to boot!


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## Raoul_Duke (Jan 14, 2008)

The 458 is the hotst lamp in Lux's tests ( from memory) about 220 degrees.


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## JimmyM (Jan 14, 2008)

These are the boards I made.







The little trace connecting the 2 long oval pads is left in place for lights under 18V max pack voltage. If you are over 18V but still under 24V, cut the trace and use a 1K resistor as shown in the completed board.
I used thru-hole components since they're more commonly found in stores, but the pads are close enough together to allow SMD resistors as well.
The large hole is for battery negative connection, the small hole in the center of the board is for connection to the mag switch. One of the KIU bi-pin wires is run directly to battery positive via large hole (lower left side). The other bi-pin wire is soldered to the tab of the MOSFET (top right).
For ease of wire insertion, the back of the board, where wires are inserted, has been countersunk a little. I hate trying to insert a wire into a hole that's just big enough for the wire itself, but always seems to snag a strand or 2 and make things difficult. The completed board and one blank belong to mr.squatch.


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## JimmyM (Jan 14, 2008)

I found a link to some reflectivity comparisons.
The curves for Silver (Ag) and Protected Ag look nice. I wonder if they could stand up better than bare Al. Forgetting cost for a moment.

http://www.optiforms.com/4000services/4100opticalCOATINGS/41401ocREFLECTIVITYmetal.html


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## jimjones3630 (Jan 14, 2008)

The ignition temperature of paper is *451 degrees Fahrenheit. *As when holding paper close to 458 window.



Raoul_Duke said:


> The 458 is the hotst lamp in Lux's tests ( from memory) about 220 degrees.


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## jimjones3630 (Jan 14, 2008)

Jimmy thanks for the link



JimmyM said:


> I found a link to some reflectivity comparisons.
> The curves for Silver (Ag) and Protected Ag look nice. I wonder if they could stand up better than bare Al. Forgetting cost for a moment.
> 
> http://www.optiforms.com/4000services/4100opticalCOATINGS/41401ocREFLECTIVITYmetal.html


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## jimjones3630 (Jan 15, 2008)

James, just came to mind you don't use Fahrenheit, 451F= 232Celsius. Haven't read Lux thread but bet he is on the money.



jimjones3630 said:


> The ignition temperature of paper is *451 degrees Fahrenheit. *As when holding paper close to 458 window.


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## mr.squatch (Jan 16, 2008)

Allright, she's under way. Host (new red 6d mag) should arrive tomorrow. My 5 emoli are on the way from Jim as well. I received the fancy board from Jimmy (thanks buddy). I have to still order my bulbs and assemble the whole mess. I think I'll mess with the mag switch tomorrow and get er ready. Still trying to figure out how the board works. May have to ask a few more questions when I get to that point. Thanks guys for all the help so far, hope this thing works as well as I'm planning. Fingers crossed! 

Still need: 
Switch resistance fix
Figure out which wires go where on the board
Find a suitable charger for my new emolii <--plural haha
Assemble the monster. 

Oh yeah, has anyone named this machine yet? I'm guessing its referred to as the mag458? I hope to one day have a light people ooh and ahhh over, maybe we can name it the squatchablaster or something. lol. Thanks again guys. I'll keep you posted

g


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## JimmyM (Jan 16, 2008)

mr.squatch said:


> Allright, she's under way. Host (new red 6d mag) should arrive tomorrow. My 5 emoli are on the way from Jim as well. I received the fancy board from Jimmy (thanks buddy). I have to still order my bulbs and assemble the whole mess. I think I'll mess with the mag switch tomorrow and get er ready. Still trying to figure out how the board works. May have to ask a few more questions when I get to that point. Thanks guys for all the help so far, hope this thing works as well as I'm planning. Fingers crossed!
> 
> Still need:
> Switch resistance fix
> ...


I believe Lux has named his the "deathblaster".
You don't need a resistance fix at all. All but a milliamp or 5 will flow through the MOSFET without goiing through the switch at all.
The MOSFET IS the resistance fix. When turned on, the resistance of the MOSFET is only about 1 mOhm.

There's one hole on the board larger than the others. Along the edge. Solder a large gauge wire (16 ga) from this hole to the battery negative connection of the mag switch body.
Solder one bi-pin socket wire to the MOSFET tab (The large tinned pad). Run the other bipin wire directly to the bottom battery positive connection on the mag switch. The curcuit, so far, looks like this...
Battery positive to bi-pin socket.
Bi-pin socket to MOSFET tab.
Large hole on board to Battery negative.
In the very center of the board is a tiny hole. Solder a wire from this center hole to the metal tab that is part of the top of the switch. Now, when the switch is turned on, battery voltage is applied to the tiny wire that turns on the mosfet.


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## mr.squatch (Jan 16, 2008)

Great news, thanks for the explain, exactly what I was looking for. Ordered my bulbs, hope to have it all here by monday, should have most of it together by this weekend. Dang that Lux, he beats me to all the good names. One of these days I tell ya!  Thanks again

g


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## JimmyM (Jan 19, 2008)

I've got 3 more of these boards left. Anyone interested?
$3 each, includes shipping in US.
I'll even throw in mounted resistors if you tell me your pack voltage.


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## Ctechlite (Jan 19, 2008)

JimmyM said:


> I've got 3 more of these boards left. Anyone interested?
> $3 each, includes shipping in US.
> I'll even throw in mounted resistors if you tell me your pack voltage.


 

I'll take em all and you can send them to me with my SSt's. I'll Pm you later with my pack voltages. Unless someone else needs them that is...I don't want to be greedy but I will if you let me.:twothumbs


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## JimmyM (Jan 20, 2008)

Ctechlite said:


> I'll take em all and you can send them to me with my SSt's. I'll Pm you later with my pack voltages. Unless someone else needs them that is...I don't want to be greedy but I will if you let me.:twothumbs


Make it quick with the pack voltages. Your JM-SSTs are already packed up, but I can reopen. I'm away on business next week, so I only have tomorrow to mount the resistors. These have no MOSFETs you know. Right?


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## Ctechlite (Jan 20, 2008)

Yes on the mosfets, ordering some from digikey now...needed some judco's so gonna get them at the same time...

Pack voltages are 
1) 20 cell, hot off the charger at approx 28.3v and holding steady at 24v (65655bulb)
2) 16 cell, hotc at approx 22.6, and holding steady at 19.2 (64448s bulb)
3) 13 cell, hotc at approx 18.4 and holding steady at 15.6 (64623 bulb)

Thanks a lot!


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 20, 2008)

mr.squatch said:


> Dang that Lux, he beats me to all the good names. One of these days I tell ya!  Thanks again
> 
> g



LOL....I also grabbed "*Hyperblaster*" and a yet to be made "*Vaporizer*" will be with Emoli cells. :naughty:


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## JimmyM (Jan 20, 2008)

Ctechlite said:


> Yes on the mosfets, ordering some from digikey now...needed some judco's so gonna get them at the same time...
> 
> Pack voltages are
> 1) 20 cell, hot off the charger at approx 28.3v and holding steady at 24v (65655bulb)
> ...


Got it.

Edit:
All done and in your package. Ready to go.


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## mr.squatch (Jan 23, 2008)

Got my 6pack of these bubbs today. Omg these things look gnarly  I like the vertical coil vs the horizontal one in most other bulbs. Gonna try to figure out from half a million help emails and various posts, how to wire this monster up  Woot for my first monster mod! Thanks guys for all the help, I'm sure I'll have more silly questions soon enough

g


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## ptirmal (Jan 23, 2008)

so what happens if you use the stock switch with a pr based bi pin adapter, besides the resistance increasing? 

how about a kiu socket?

planning on doing a mag623 or mag458 but I want to keep it as stock looking as possible, and with a mag623 I want to have enough resistance to prevent instaflashing the bulb with 4xD lithiums...


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## mr.squatch (Jan 23, 2008)

JimmyM said:


> These are the boards I made.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ok I gotta question. One bulb wire goes thru the board on lower left big hole, to what you call batt+ then Batt- solders into the upper left hole. Where does this wire come from? I would guess it was the pos and neg off the switch, but then you said that the mag switch wires into the center tiny hole on the oval. Confuzzled. As far as I know, there are only two wires coming out of the switch, + and -, that usually go straight to the bulb via the socket wires. Am I reading it wrong? Plus I'm still missing what goes into the center bottom hole.  I wish I was smart. lol

g


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## mr.squatch (Jan 23, 2008)

Two more questions... 

1. Is this board built to be on the negative side BECAUSE of a negative ground system? If so, it's been assumed and understood way before I learned of it in the progress of the project. If so, one part of my figuring makes a little more sense, as to what the board does to limit volts to the bulb. 

2. If the positive from the switch (battery) bypasses the board all together, then that takes care of two of our four wires in question. Which leaves us with only two. The negative from the bulb goes to the open tab on the mosfet... So only one is unaccounted for, the negative from the switch. In the above diagram it says the negative from the switch (battery) goes to the big hole (center bottom), which to me makes sense. Then it says also that the mag switch goes to the center small hole. That's a mystery wire from where I am not sure. 

I'm off to disassemble the host, hopefully a brainstorming type guru will find his way here haha. Thanks in advance, as always


g


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## JimmyM (Jan 23, 2008)

mr.squatch said:


> Ok I gotta question. One bulb wire goes thru the board on lower left big hole, to what you call batt+ then Batt- solders into the upper left hole. Where does this wire come from? I would guess it was the pos and neg off the switch, but then you said that the mag switch wires into the center tiny hole on the oval. Confuzzled. As far as I know, there are only two wires coming out of the switch, + and -, that usually go straight to the bulb via the socket wires. Am I reading it wrong? Plus I'm still missing what goes into the center bottom hole.  I wish I was smart. lol
> 
> g


The 3 large holes in the board are for mounting screws and one bi-pin wire "pass through".

You solder a wire from the negative/body set-screw to the medium sized hole in the board that is connected to the right leg of the MOSFET.
One wire from the bi-pin socket gets soldered to the tab of the MOSFET. The other bi-pin wire passes through the one large hole not being used for the mounting screws and down through the switch body to the battery positive spring.
The MOSFET is wired in the negative side of the circuit because it needs to be there to allow proper switching on/off because it's an N-Channel MOSFET. It's called "low-side switching".
If you don't mind paying for the shipping... send me a Mag D switch body and the MOSFET switch that I sent you already. I'll assemble the whole thing for you, so in the future you can do them yourself. There's nothing like looking at a completed unit to get a "lay of the land".


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## mr.squatch (Jan 23, 2008)

I think I understand everything you said in the last post, but it leaves me with two questions still. Sorry if I'm just not getting it. haha, I'm tryin.

1. previously you said the small center hole (that's attached to the single leg of the mosfet) goes to the mag switch. In this last post you said neg from the switch goes to the medium hole, at the bottom that's attached to the right side of the mosfet, then the positive from the switch goes to one leg of the bulb (passing thru the board, not attached). Then the other leg of the bulb goes to the cut tab on the mosfet. that's 4 wires accounted for, but still leaves one hole, the tiny one in the middle. 

2. (completely different topic) In this board the tiny bridge is cut and replaced by a resistor, which you said was for over 17-18v. I have 5x emoli which should be 18.5 bottom lined and 21v hot off the charger. I was thinking 18 would get me there, but its been suggested to push it a bit further. I know I don't want to go over 21 or poof. My question is, in the current setup with no bridge, what limit is it set at, voltage to the bulb? 


g<--pita


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## JimmyM (Jan 23, 2008)

mr.squatch said:


> 1. previously you said the small center hole (that's attached to the single leg of the mosfet) goes to the mag switch. In this last post you said neg from the switch goes to the medium hole, at the bottom that's attached to the right side of the mosfet, then the positive from the switch goes to one leg of the bulb (passing thru the board, not attached). Then the other leg of the bulb goes to the cut tab on the mosfet. that's 4 wires accounted for, but still leaves one hole, the tiny one in the middle.


The bipin wire that passes through the board goes to the *bottom* of the switch body to the battery positive connection. The little spring.
The small center hole is what gets wired to the top tab of the switch with a tiny wire. The switch tab I'm talking about is the metal tab you can see after you cut the tower off the switch.


mr.squatch said:


> 2. (completely different topic) In this board the tiny bridge is cut and replaced by a resistor, which you said was for over 17-18v. I have 5x emoli which should be 18.5 bottom lined and 21v hot off the charger. I was thinking 18 would get me there, but its been suggested to push it a bit further. I know I don't want to go over 21 or poof. My question is, in the current setup with no bridge, what limit is it set at, voltage to the bulb?


The resistors on the board have nothing to do with limiting voltage to the bulb. This thing is either fully ON or fully OFF. The resistors limit voltage to the gate of the mosfet. The mosfet can handle 24V from Drain to Source. but only 18V at the gate. The resistors limit the battery voltage that the mosfet gate sees.
The tiny bridge is there for lights that never exceed 18V. In that case you don't need one of the resistors. You just leave the trace in place.


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## mr.squatch (Jan 23, 2008)

Hopefully somebody else can learn from all this, only reason I'm dragging it all out here rather than in pm. haha. Thanks Jimmy, seriously I appreciate it. 

I get the two different positive things now, one from the bulb goes directly to the battery positive, before the switch. Then the center hole goes to the positive after the switch is engaged. Right? 

Where I get confuzzled is, when the center hole is energized with + power from the engaged switch, it travels due west via the top copper oval, then instead of going across the bridge, now it goes thru the first resistor down to the bottom oval, and also to the left side of the mosfet. Well,,, the 2nd resistor is connected directly from the bottom oval (which is now connected to positive), to the bottom hole, which is battery negative/ground. I dunno what resistors do exactly, but I wouldn't think they would allow you to short the circuit by connecting the pos to the neg. Am I thinking incorrectly still? It seems to me like the top resistor should be connected from the top oval to the left side of the mosfet OR to the lower oval, but not both. 

Please keep in mind that I've been up since 4am today. haha. I hate to question the master, I'm just not getting it. I know it makes sense to you, I think maybe I'm not asking my questions correctly, or maybe I just don't know the language of how the parts work. I think I have about 90% of it. lol

g


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## mr.squatch (Jan 23, 2008)

Leaving my question of pos connected to neg behind, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the theory involved here. 

Squatchaneeze for how the mosfet works. See if I got this right. 

Battery positive is always connected directly to the + side of the bulb. 

Bulb - then goes to the tab on the mosfet. Which is a dead end inside the mosfet

UNLESS...

Battery positive is ALSO sent to the center hole of the board which then goes via a resistor to the left leg of the mosfet, which then opens the dead end of the bulb negative, and lets it connect to the right side of the mosfet which is directly connected to the chassis ground -. = voila! Light!

SO in simple terms... The mosfet is a switch for the neg (ground) on or off like a light switch, that is activated by the physical switch of the positive, like a finger on the light switch. 

Kinda starting to make sense to me, but I still haven't grasped why it needs to do this.  Man, this thread could totally be about 5 different ones already. haha

g <--learning... maybe?


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## JimmyM (Jan 24, 2008)

mr.squatch said:


> Leaving my question of pos connected to neg behind, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the theory involved here.
> 
> Squatchaneeze for how the mosfet works. See if I got this right.
> 
> ...


 
The resistors create a voltage divider. If you have 2 resistors of equal value on the board, and the battery is 20V. The point where the resistors meet is only at 10V. They are sufficient resistance that they don't cause a short, But they are of low enough resistance to allow the MOSFET gate to charge and discharge quickly. The gate on a mosfte acts like a little capacitor. While it's turning on, the gate is "charging" (drawing curent). Like a capacitor, once fully charged it doesn't draw any more current. But to turn off it needs to discharge this stored charge. When you open the mag switch, the mosfet gate discharges through the resistor that's connected between the mosfet gate and battery negative. Once the mosfet gate is at 0 volts, it's fully off.

And, yes. It's just like a light switch. A VERY good light switch. A very well modded mag switch will have a resistance of ~10 milli-ohms. This MOSFET has an ON resistance of 0.8 milli-ohms. Much less heat and less voltage drop. The 64458 will draw ~12 amps at 20-21V. This MOSFET can easily handle 20 amps with no heatsink to speak of. You can't say that about even the best mag switch mod. And no arcing to deteriorate the the quality of the connection either.


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## mr.squatch (Jan 24, 2008)

So it's ok that the pos is connected to the neg, since the resistors create enough resistance that it won't short? That's cool, never would have expected that. Good to know that I was on the right track at least in my thinking. This is so far beyond my brainpower that I'm amazed where we've ended up. I think we've got it whooped finally. Thanks for your patience. Teach a man to fish and all that 

Also that's really cool about the mosfet switch and resistance, you even managed to explain that in the why category so I can understand it. You the man Jimmy. 

Only thing I'm a little worried about is the voltage to the bulb. Looks like I'll be close to the poof limit, but the light output should make me 

I think if I get some time tomorrow at work I'll do some soldering. After that its just a matter of putting the parts together. I'm so freakin excited about this I can't wait. 

Thanks to everyone for the advice and patience while I learn. It's painful for me, I can imagine it's dreadful for some of you. lol

g <--brain hurts, going to bed


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## JimmyM (Jan 24, 2008)

mr.squatch said:


> So it's ok that the pos is connected to the neg, since the resistors create enough resistance that it won't short? That's cool, never would have expected that. Good to know that I was on the right track at least in my thinking. This is so far beyond my brainpower that I'm amazed where we've ended up. I think we've got it whooped finally. Thanks for your patience. Teach a man to fish and all that
> 
> Also that's really cool about the mosfet switch and resistance, you even managed to explain that in the why category so I can understand it. You the man Jimmy.
> 
> ...


Nah. Not painful. A lot of folks helped me out. And still are. It's nice to be able to return the favor.
The tough part is trying to type things out in such a manner that it makes sense to someone other than me. Once I've got my teeth into something I learn fast. I spend my spare time at work researching PWM controllers, compensation networks, switching times, blah, blah, blah. I have no formal education in electronics. But it pays off. I'm on the trail of a nice PWM regulator design that should have all the power handling of the JM-SST.


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## mr.squatch (Jan 24, 2008)

What ever you come up with, I hope you get rich off it 

Oooh, one more thing I was going to ask about several times but didn't want to add too many topics at once (failed)

Insulation. I've heard several people refer to it in monster mags, but have no idea what it's all about. Just insulation from heat? If any light had the room and the need for it I'd think it'd be a 6d with skinny emoli's and a 458 bulb. Anybody got an advice on this? 

g


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## JimmyM (Jan 24, 2008)

mr.squatch said:


> What ever you come up with, I hope you get rich off it
> 
> Oooh, one more thing I was going to ask about several times but didn't want to add too many topics at once (failed)
> 
> ...


Personally, I use Aluminum Oxide Ceramic fiber insulation. It's good to 2300 Deg F. I think I have your address still. I'll send you some. Try it out.
However, I've read (I think it was jimjones3630) that super high heat can bubble the reflector coating.


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## littlejohnle (Jan 24, 2008)

JimmyM said:


> The resistors create a voltage divider. If you have 2 resistors of equal value on the board, and the battery is 20V. The point where the resistors meet is only at 10V. They are sufficient resistance that they don't cause a short, But they are of low enough resistance to allow the MOSFET gate to charge and discharge quickly. The gate on a mosfte acts like a little capacitor. While it's turning on, the gate is "charging" (drawing curent). Like a capacitor, once fully charged it doesn't draw any more current. But to turn off it needs to discharge this stored charge. When you open the mag switch, the mosfet gate discharges through the resistor that's connected between the mosfet gate and battery negative. Once the mosfet gate is at 0 volts, it's fully off.
> 
> And, yes. It's just like a light switch. A VERY good light switch. A very well modded mag switch will have a resistance of ~10 milli-ohms. This MOSFET has an ON resistance of 0.8 milli-ohms. Much less heat and less voltage drop. The 64458 will draw ~12 amps at 20-21V. This MOSFET can easily handle 20 amps with no heatsink to speak of. You can't say that about even the best mag switch mod. And no arcing to deteriorate the the quality of the connection either.


 

JimmyM,

What is the model number of the mosfet you use and where can i buy it. I think i can build the mosfet switch if i had the parts and by looking at your ciruit you posted.


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## JimmyM (Jan 24, 2008)

littlejohnle said:


> JimmyM,
> 
> What is the model number of the mosfet you use and where can i buy it. I think i can build the mosfet switch if i had the parts and by looking at your ciruit you posted.


 
The MOSFET is an International Rectifier IRF1324S-7P. I buy mine from www.Digikey.com
Make sure your resistors are not too large though (too many Ohms). If their resistances are too high, even though the voltage works out right, the MOSFET will turn ON and OFF too slowly resulting in a MOSFET failure due to over-heating. I find that if you use resistors in the 1.5K to 5K range to build your divider, you'll get plenty of current without dissipating too much heat and bleeding too much current while ON. Try to keep the MOSFET gate voltage, when ON, between 12 and 15 volts.


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## cat (Jan 24, 2008)

! I just found all these new posts here now. I'd better print it and read it properly later - I don't seem to be in the right mood for learning this stuff now. 
mr.squatch, good luck with the 458 6D. :thumbsup: 

I'm waiting for some of the parts for mine to arrive, and I still have to get a 6D, but I've also got a 64625 to do with a 4D, 4 x A123. 14.4V; I hope the NTC doesn't make it any lower than 13V.
I'm just waiting for the Kiu socket for that, but I've got a NL PR-bi-pin socket I could use.

6 A123 in the 6D. 21.6V. With a JM-SST. 
From what I read here,...it seems like the usual MAG switch resistance mods won't be necessary with the JM-SST ...? 
And the Judco 10A rocker switch? 

I'm going to use FiberFrax around the socket, but I'm wondering now whether it's as suitable as the mcmaster-carr insulation for between the reflector and the head...?


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## mr.squatch (Jan 24, 2008)

Yahoo! It's been a long day of firsts around here. 

My first built bi-pin adapter build
My first intentional flashlight started fire! :twothumbs
My first mosfet switch board install 
My first accidental flashlight started fire 
My first 15+v mag mod (21 to be exact) 
My first emoli light 

Special thanks go to JimmyM, Jimjones, lux and all the boys. This thing is a freakin monster. Can't wait for it to get dark. Hopefully I can figure out how to take some good night shots, although it won't really matter because night looks more like daytime now. haha. I feel so accomplished. Before I started I had no knowledge of these sorts of things, with plenty of help I managed to somehow soak the ideas into my thick head. I rule. Thanks again guys. This should hold me over for a good..... 2 weeks probably :naughty:


g


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## smokelaw1 (Jan 24, 2008)

Sounds like a beast. Can't wait for those night shots. GOOD JOB on a really cool sounding build. )


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## mr.squatch (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks, it's getting dark now but I'm charging batts. Had to totally ghetto rig my cr123/18650 charger with aligator clips and magnets to charge em haha. Off to buy a new voltmeter too. Might wait til tomorrow to take pics when it's all evenly charged. I was only gettin 18.9v out of the five combined. Per the ll test sheet that's a little over 8k, rather than a mid 12k at 21 full volts  

Specs, incase anyone missed it across the 3 threads it took to build 

I call it the Squatchablaster lol

Red 6d mag
5x emoli
JimmyM mosfet switch board
Some dunno who made it, bigass hole aluminum reflector. Only had one that the bulb would fit thru lol
Kiu bipin socket
64458 osram bulb
Borofloat lens

Pics to follow

g


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## jimjones3630 (Jan 24, 2008)

Galen,

Congratulations! looking forward to seeing those pics.
jim


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## mr.squatch (Jan 25, 2008)

The girls are going on a cruise this weekend, so the boys will play. I'm sure we'll have a couple long nights of throw pics for all the lights before it's over  OMG this thing is unbelievable in the dark. We have a park just outside the neighborhood that is 150 ft wide and 300 ft long. It's pitch black. Across the park is a field then a white brick wall on the other side at 1000 ft distance. Most of the lights I've built will either flood 1/4 of the park or throw to the 1000 ft mark on the wall but not both. This thing Floods the ENTIRE park with white light, like daylight! and lights up the field and the whole wall. holy crap it's amazing. I refuse to flash somebody with it. You can't hold your hand 6" in front of it for more than a second. From 6ft away if you shine it on the back of somebody's neck, they'll jump away from being burnt. lol. Flashed a napkin in the back yard in 3 seconds on 3.8v each battery. I've been charging em all nite on my 18650 charger and they simply won't go over 4.05v each. I hope its just the charger. Can't wait to see what it'll do tomorrow on 20v 



g


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## jimjones3630 (Jan 25, 2008)

Hey Galen,

the 18.9v how did you measure it? Is that with tailcap off, one probe to battery neg and other probe to end of mag wall?

jim


mr.squatch said:


> Thanks, it's getting dark now but I'm charging batts. Had to totally ghetto rig my cr123/18650 charger with aligator clips and magnets to charge em haha. Off to buy a new voltmeter too. Might wait til tomorrow to take pics when it's all evenly charged. I was only gettin 18.9v out of the five combined. Per the ll test sheet that's a little over 8k, rather than a mid 12k at 21 full volts
> 
> Specs, incase anyone missed it across the 3 threads it took to build
> 
> ...


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## mr.squatch (Jan 25, 2008)

jimjones3630 said:


> Hey Galen,
> 
> the 18.9v how did you measure it? Is that with tailcap off, one probe to battery neg and other probe to end of mag wall?
> 
> jim




first I measured the batts combined on the deck end to end, then in the light and to got the same numbers. I'm getting a consistent 4.05 out of em off the charger so tomorrow should be a lil brighter 


g


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 25, 2008)

mr.squatch said:


> I call it the Squatchablaster lol



I was thinking maybe "SquatchaMoli"


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## jimjones3630 (Jan 25, 2008)

Hi Galen,

Your charger might be a Li Ion charger, I'm not familiar with yours. Li Io programs usually are 4.1v full charge. Looking forward to seeing the pics and burnt paper.
jim



mr.squatch said:


> first I measured the batts combined on the deck end to end, then in the light and to got the same numbers. I'm getting a consistent 4.05 out of em off the charger so tomorrow should be a lil brighter
> 
> 
> g


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## mr.squatch (Jan 25, 2008)

jimjones3630 said:


> Hi Galen,
> 
> Your charger might be a Li Ion charger, I'm not familiar with yours. Li Io programs usually are 4.1v full charge. Looking forward to seeing the pics and burnt paper.
> jim




Yep, it is. I made a thread once about emoli chargers but it kinda got hijacked. lol. Still looking for a solution. It's not working as well today as it was last nite. I need to do some cleaning up on these batts and get em to rack up right in there with a spacer. 

g


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## jimjones3630 (Jan 25, 2008)

Galen,

previously I've recommended to you inexpensive chargers since the initial cost of all this stuff I think tends to put people off. And charging to 4.1v with a Li-On charger probable will lead to long battery life, giving more recharging cycles.

I could care less about that myself as I want to push the envelope. If you want a top of the line charger, NL posted in that thread and recommends BC 6 that has newest A123 programs and Li-PO. 

I only bring up this last one because have noticed your questioning about circuits and MOSFETs, you might like a bench power supply. I trowled Ebay and got a great deal on a analog Motorola 040v, 0-40A, CV and CC controls. It can be used as a battery charger or supply power to battery chargers which need 12v dc supply.
jim



mr.squatch said:


> Yep, it is. I made a thread once about emoli chargers but it kinda got hijacked. lol. Still looking for a solution. It's not working as well today as it was last nite. I need to do some cleaning up on these batts and get em to rack up right in there with a spacer.
> 
> g


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## mr.squatch (Jan 28, 2008)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/187770

Started a thread this afternoon. I suck at the night shots, got a few but it's late and my batts are dead  I'll work on getting some up tomorrow. :kiss:



g


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## rizky_p (Jan 28, 2008)

Hi guys, is it possible to build [email protected] with 16 2/3A cells and tri-bored 3D body?

thanks.


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## JimmyM (Jan 28, 2008)

rizky_p said:


> Hi guys, is it possible to build [email protected] with 16 2/3A cells and tri-bored 3D body?
> 
> thanks.


3D cells are 180mm long. 6 2/3As are 171mm long. You should use 17 cells and a dummy in a 6 long by 3 wide stack. I'd sugect a MOSFET switch since this light will be pulling ~12 amps. Talk about the ultimate "sleeper" light.


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## JimmyM (Jan 28, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> I was thinking maybe "SquatchaMoli"


What about ScortchSquatch.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 29, 2008)

JimmyM said:


> What about ScortchSquatch.



Hmmmm.....I can't say that 3 times fast, but "SquatchaMoli" kind of rolls off the tongue like Guacamole LOL! Or maybe even SasQuatch.


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## mdocod (Jan 29, 2008)

sorry this is a little late to the game with this.... I just noticed some new cells pop up today over at batteryspace..

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3294

a 32600 size LiFeP04 cell with 3AH capacity and 60A maximum drain rate... would probably be perfect in a 5D host, less wasted space.


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## jimjones3630 (Jan 29, 2008)

nice find, they list 3.2v probable charge to 3.6v?



mdocod said:


> sorry this is a little late to the game with this.... I just noticed some new cells pop up today over at batteryspace..
> 
> http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3294
> 
> a 32600 size LiFeP04 cell with 3AH capacity and 60A maximum drain rate... would probably be perfect in a 5D host, less wasted space.


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## rizky_p (Jan 29, 2008)

JimmyM said:


> 3D cells are 180mm long. 6 2/3As are 171mm long. You should use 17 cells and a dummy in a 6 long by 3 wide stack. I'd sugect a MOSFET switch since this light will be pulling ~12 amps. Talk about the ultimate "sleeper" light.



nice, so it doesnt have to be 6D


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## sed6 (Feb 10, 2008)

Tag for further reading.


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## cat (Feb 11, 2008)

Interesting. 3500mAh sounds good. But the link to the specs data sheet (which isn't linked) says 1600mAh
Please download the 




 Li-Fe-PSO4 3260P Cylindrical Cell 3.2V 1600 mAh specifications 
32x60mm slightly smaller than Duracell standard D 34.2x61.5mm





sed6 said:


> Tag for further reading.



 How does that work? You mean tag on the batteryspace page? All I know is subscribing to the thread here.


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## jimjones3630 (Feb 12, 2008)

I could not get the PDF file to download. clear states 1600mah at the web site as noted on the cut and paste.



cat said:


> Interesting. 3500mAh sounds good. But the link to the specs data sheet (which isn't linked) says 1600mAh
> Please download the
> 
> 
> ...


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## jimjones3630 (Feb 12, 2008)

Reworked my switch in 64458 with 5x A123 cells. Only get 18v on a fresh charged pak but it is so light weight to carry and recharges at least 3x faster than emolis all makes for a fun light to use. 

going to add an extension for 6x A123 with Jimmy's SST. will put it in 21+vbat with batteries that don't sag, they sag even less than emoli 2670mah. 

If only someone would come up with a voltmeter, miniature of course, that mounts next to the switch. 2" readout would be useful.


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