# [Updated 11/28/09] Version: Nomad custom survival knife design w/ sheath



## tmarsh388 (Nov 10, 2009)

handle and guard tweaked
New version: Nomad




Old version: 3.0



Perhaps the final version
NEW
Version 3.0



2nd version 3D model
Now that I have the model made Im not to sure about the handle. A revision may be in order.



NEW



NEW sheath concept



OLD



no more wheel stud
Im going to implement a lever buckle system (sort of like a buckle on a ski boot) into the knife and sheath for an easy lock easy open instead of use a button. More on my locking mechanism soon 
Old




Dimensions: Blade thinkness: 4mm
Blade height: 30mm
Blade length: 100mm
Interrupted edge: 40mm
handle: 115mm
*The Knife* 
I'm hoping to use a tanto style fixed blade for its tip strength and a wheel like thumb-stud. On the back of the blade I would like to incorporate an (interrupted blade) for cord cutting. The handle I'm not sure about the materials yet, but I'm think of using some sort of soft (comfortable) rubber on the back where your thumb and index finger webbing rest. hopefully to prevent blister from long term continuous use. the rest of the handle might be some sort of composite material.

*The Steel*
I'm not really sure what kind of steel to use, maybe 154CM stainless or CPM D2 tool steel. I'm not very knowledgeable about different types of steels nor do I know much about what steel type is better suited as a "survival" knife.

ANY INPUT WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED


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## StuToffee (Nov 10, 2009)

*Re: Need help with custom survival knife design*

I like the short, stout blade, but I dont think tantos are especially good blade-styles for a Survival knife.


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 10, 2009)

*Re: Need help with custom survival knife design*

good to know thanks man.


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## StuToffee (Nov 11, 2009)

*Re: Need help with custom survival knife design*

Its a very nice looking design though. Looks rather like a high-tech cross of a Gerber LMF & Camillus Pilot Survival knife.
I like the grip too, is that a "cut-away" section in the handle? Abit like the one on Rob Bayliss's knife (Bear Gryllz uses one, sadly!)


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## jzmtl (Nov 11, 2009)

*Re: Need help with custom survival knife design*

Look more "tactical" than "survival" IMO. My personal preference is something like Mora knives, with lower guard, a bit bigger and stouter.


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## Patriot (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: Need help with custom survival knife design*

I dig your handle design but think the choil could be a few millimeters shorter. I guess this would be considered a modified Tanto point which I'm not too hot on for outdooring/survival. The point style ends up dictating the cutting edge on this design which happens to be dead flat. Again, a completely flat edge wouldn't be my choice at all. I just don't think they chop or press cut very well. I think you've made a pretty nice tactical design that looks very stout. 

If you're specifically looking for a outdooring blade maybe have a look at various manufacturers who are making specific survival designs. You'll find that they usually share some similar traits that tend to work best. The 4" blade size alone is going to limit the knife to lighter tasks. A 5" blade with a deep belly, a lot of weight forward and a full flat grind would be pretty effective though if you're trying to keep things small. 

Have you taken a look at any of the Bark River's at all? They have an amazingly broad product line.


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## carrot (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: Need help with custom survival knife design*

If you can choose CPM 3V steel you should go for it. It is simply the cat's meow of steels. It is not stainless but not particularly prone to rusting if you keep a mirror finish or at least dry it out, and extremely tough. Gets wicked sharp and holds it for a very long time.


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: Need help with custom survival knife design*

I decided to re-design the knife concept and only leave a few things from the original concept. things I plan on changing are the blade style. I'm changing this because a tanto blade would be very difficult to create CORRECTLY and I found its almost pointless in a knife suitable for survival in the wilderness. I plan on changing the grip to ergonomically fit my hand PERFECTLY. I will not be using any sort of soft rubber, I learned that this causes blisters not prevents them. But with a handle molded for my hand I shouldnt have to worry to much about blisters anyways. Im leaving the wheel thumb-stud. I realize that some if not all of you have know idea why I'm you any sort of thumb-stud in the first place. I plan on creating a sheath self locking mechanism with it. (more details on the hopefully later) Back to the blade, I'm going to design an actual cord cutting blade on the edge side near the base of the blade instead of just have an interrupted blade on the back side. I plan on leave the interrupted edge where it is. I am also thinking of going with a ( what I believe to be) a modified drop-point blade style. (kinda of a crossover between a drop-point and a tanto blade.
pictures of concept soon to follow.


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## RAGE CAGE (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: Need help with custom survival knife design*



jzmtl said:


> Look more "tactical" than "survival" IMO. My personal preference is something like Mora knives, with lower guard, a bit bigger and stouter.


 
+ 1 for Mora, Frosts, or any "softer steel" scandi grind. Highly visible, easily field sharpenable, will float if dropped in water. Your design looks very robust- but looks like it would be hart to choke up on it to whittle snare/deadfal triggers etc. If you design a sheath- make sure to include a pouch for a Doan's Magnesium firestarter.


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: Need help with custom survival knife design*

Just finished the new version


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] Need help with custom survival knife design*

Im going to implement a lever buckle system (sort of like a buckle on a ski boot) into the knife and sheath for an easy lock easy open instead of use a button. More on my locking mechanism soon


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] Need help with custom survival knife design*

I am however very new to special purpose knives. I have also NEVER designed an knife let alone crafted one before. So this is all very new to me. ANY input or help would be greatly appreciated. I will however though it out there that I am a huge perfectionist, and probably wont begin the creation process until the initial concept design is well, perfect. so please feel free to make fun or whatever. I dont really care just as long as its "constructive criticism" and Im able to learn from it.


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## Owen (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

Take a look at the Fehrman Peace Maker for a knife in this size range:
http://www.fehrmanknives.com/knives.htm
or the RAT Cutlery RC-4:
http://www.ratcutlery.com/rc-4.htm (Jeff's got lots of cool pics if you browse around, and a survival forum with some great members, though I haven't looked around there in quite awhile).
Both companies also make 6" versions of those knives, but I found(at least with the Fehrman) the longer versions were too light for their length, and didn't add that much to the knife. 
These "all-around" knives are a mix of compromises, though.

My "survival" knife is a Victorinox Hiker, though I'll take a larger fixed blade for light limbing, or splitting, since I prefer that to a hatchet. Most of the "tactical prybar" and "survival" blades are for appealing to people's fantasies, not actually using in the woods. A 4-5" blade is only good because it's a servicable length that you can carry on your person comfortably. I like them thin and short for cutting ability and control, or longer and thicker where the additional weight, and length are a boon for chopping, splitting, and acting stupid with.


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 12, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

2nd revision
NEW


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 13, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

Perhaps the final version
NEW
Version 3.0


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 13, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] 3.0 Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

OK I have a quick question about the weight balance. Should the center of balance to in the middle making both blade and the handle equal in weight? Or should the blade be heaviest ( like a hammer is weighted)?


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 13, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] 3.0 Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

Just messing around with some possible handle materials.
I would also like to incorporate some type of (very) buoyant material for a core of the handle. Hope allowing it to float or at the very least sink very slowly. If you have any materials in mind by all means please let me know. Im open for suggestions.


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## jzmtl (Nov 14, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] 3.0 Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

I like the 3rd design but would make some changes. Make the upper guard flush with handle so your thumb can go over it and push on spine (make it semi-rounded too) comfortably. Get rid of the swedge, you aren't going to stab anything with it, a stronger tip is better.

Weight balance doesn't really matter in knife this size/porpose in my experience.

Don't bother with boyancy IMO, to make even a fillet knife float it needs a fat foam handle, on knife this thick you can forget it.


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## HoopleHead (Nov 14, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] 3.0 Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

Agree, flush the top and add jimping. Drop the swedge. Skip buoyancy, if you're near water have the wrist lanyard on! Wood, micarta or G-10 handles. Add a choil.


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] 3.0 Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

I have the guard there (at least for now) for a sort of center weight to possibly help drive the knife through with a "chopping " motion better. Whether or not this weighted guard stays is a question I'll leave for time and trial and error to answer.


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## RAGE CAGE (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] 3.0 Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

looking much better imho than the first (tanto) version...!!!!
+1 on flush the top, add jimping and choil.........
is there a brass tube where the lanyard hole looks to be?


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] 3.0 Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*



RAGE CAGE said:


> is there a brass tube where the lanyard hole looks to be?



Should there be?


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 23, 2009)

*[Updated] 3.0 mock-up custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

Knife handle mock-up


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## RAGE CAGE (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] 3.0 Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*



tmarsh388 said:


> Should there be?


 
imo- looks classy...especially on the wood. maybe not be structurally necessary (?).


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## NonSenCe (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] 3.0 Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

now the blade looks useful! (i hate the tanto in everything else but in japanese swords)

balance: 
for chopping action the balance spot should be in foward part.

for comfortable use, carving whittling cutting etc.. the balance should be where you hold your index finger while holding the knife. balance the blade on top of your index finger that rests against the finger choil. (this is my personal preference)

little jimping on the thumb side would be cool too.. for ensure grip while sticking it. 

the shape of the handle looks rather nice.. (the dropped rear part feels comfortable inside the palm.. its the shape i did for my 1st knife)

its not going to be a fulltang knife is it? if it is.. i have a nutty idea for lanyard hole.. depending the material you make the handle.. i personally would like to have a screwdriver bit hole in there. i could take the couple bits with me and have a some sort of makeshift screwdriver too and the non-round lanyard hole will add some different look to it.. maybe the bits hole could be only in the handle and the fulltang metal would have a smaller round hole thru it. that way the screwbit wouldnt go too deep .

if its of wood.. forget this. it wont hold the twisting that well. 

the boyancy.. very difficult to do! the blade will easily weigh so much that the handle must be huge to keep it up. 

friend of mine that likes to fish tried it with cork and stuff and found it hard to do. so now when he goes on water he ties little orange painted cork ball into the knife with lanyard. but if the blade is dropped into the water, the weight of the knife pulls the smaller cork out of the bigger hollow cork and then threads out a strong fishing line out from inside the cork ball. there is several meters of fishingline in it. the cork plops back to surface while knife sinks and you have either few seconds to retrieve the knife via the cork ball and fishingline..or if its shallow enough the blade hits the bottom and there you have the bright orange ball bobbling on the water marking the spot where to pull it back to surface..

hope this made any sense. 

but the wristlanyard or somekind of retractable keychainreel would be nice .. the reel on the holster.. pull the knife out and you can still use it some sort with wire hanging from its end to the holster. but if dropped it wont fall off. (i use my edc flashlight on keybak retractable keychain..this way i wont forget it anywhere and if i drop it it will not reach the floor and just rewinds back up to my waist)


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## ckc (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] 3.0 Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*

IF this knife is truly for "Survival" then there are several things it should have


1) Length.. 10 cm is not that long.. are you going to be able to use it like an Axe to split wood, cut med size branches, split kindling etc.

2) Steel.. The newer steels like S30v are great, but a pain in the A$$ to sharpen.. if this knife is for survival, you want something you can easily sharpen "in the field" and not depend on a diamond sharpener.

3) Strength.. look for a full tang knife.. something that the handle may fall apart, but still be able to use.

4) Thick blade.. again strength.. 

5) Serrations (Partial) .. some people have a preference for them..


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: [Updated] 3.0 Need help with custom survival knife design w/ sheath*



ckc said:


> Steel.. The newer steels like _*S30v*_ are great, but a pain in the A$$ to sharpen.. if this knife is for survival, you want something you can easily sharpen "in the field" and not depend on a diamond sharpener.




How long would this type of knife stay sharp? I know it varies great upon what activities you using the knife for. And if not that steel then do you have any other suggestions?


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## tmarsh388 (Nov 28, 2009)

Version: Nomad


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