# 300 yard LED shooting light



## clint357 (Feb 14, 2010)

One of my buddies has asked if I could build him a light to shoot groundhogs at 300 yards. He wants it to be LED, so where do I start? I've got an sst-50 to play with, but I'm wondering if anyone has any idea of the aspheric size that will produce usable light at 300 yards. I've got one of the MC-E 52mm aspherics from DX that I would like to use, but I don't think it will have the throw he's looking for. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm all set with driving the led, and making a heatsink/housing.


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## SFG2Lman (Feb 14, 2010)

300 yards is a good stretch, you would need to put a lot of light downrange to get good target recognition, how big can this light go? I'd say drive that little sst-50 as hard as she will go and put the aspheric in front and see what happens, honestly that sounds like your best bet. An SST-90 could brute force lumens that far, but its much larger and harder to focus/cool/power. CREE XP-E have the highest surface brightness (most throwi-est) i believe, but you would need several (5-7) in one head to get enough lumens to be able to identify anything, again you are looking at a mag mod probably.


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## BVH (Feb 14, 2010)

It's not really going to happen with an led light, any that are commonly available. 1000 feet is HID territory or a large, incan spotlight will do it. An led may "reach" 1000 feet but you're not going to see anything and recognize it for what it is.


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## saabluster (Feb 14, 2010)

clint357 said:


> One of my buddies has asked if I could build him a light to shoot groundhogs at 300 yards. He wants it to be LED, so where do I start? I've got an sst-50 to play with, but I'm wondering if anyone has any idea of the aspheric size that will produce usable light at 300 yards. I've got one of the MC-E 52mm aspherics from DX that I would like to use, but I don't think it will have the throw he's looking for. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm all set with driving the led, and making a heatsink/housing.



The DEFT can do it. That's the only LED solution that will make it that far *and* still be able to really see anything. You will not be able to get the SST or the MC-E to reach out that far. Just won't happen. Even with an aspheric over those larger LEDs you cannot get the lux needed for that distance.


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## Benson (Feb 14, 2010)

saabluster said:


> The DEFT can do it. That's the only LED solution that will make it that far *and* still be able to really see anything. You will not be able to get the SST or the MC-E to reach out that far. Just won't happen. Even with an aspheric over those larger LEDs you cannot get the lux needed for that distance.


Depends on the size permitted -- while an aspheric large enough to throw an SST-50 that far would certainly be prohibitive, a fresnel lens should stand a chance, probably with a small pre-focusing lens over the emitter. I'm thinking something the size of (and maybe built from) a portable overhead projector with the arm removed. Thoughts?


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## saabluster (Feb 15, 2010)

Benson said:


> Depends on the size permitted -- while an aspheric large enough to throw an SST-50 that far would certainly be prohibitive, a fresnel lens should stand a chance, probably with a small pre-focusing lens over the emitter. I'm thinking something the size of (and maybe built from) a portable overhead projector with the arm removed. Thoughts?



My thoughts are been there done that. It can be done but it is not a very simple proposition. Several obstacles that I don't want to go into at the moment.


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## SFG2Lman (Feb 15, 2010)

if there is anyone that knows about throw its mr. saabluster there, i had the pleasure of encountering his genius at the DFW get -together, and i would consider him the SME (subject matter expert) on getting an LED to throw as far as possible. If there is something to try hes has tried it..although mounting a DEFT to a weapon would be an interesting task, though considering our other feats of engineering here on CPF probably a mere hiccup. Now if only there was a way to double use the lens as both an asperic for the LED AND part of the scope...lol


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## Patriot (Feb 15, 2010)

I agree with Saabluster that the DEFT will reach out there but two problems remain, search capability and weapon mounting. Search capabilty because you'll be limited to the FOV through what ever optic you're using and mounting because of the head size of the light. There may be other issues that I'm not aware of such as the effects of prolonged recoil depending on the type of weapon it's going to be mounted two. 

The best way to dispatch critters with visible light is to work in a team and that's how Game Wardens and animal control people typically do it. One shooter and at least one person designating and illuminating targets. They regularly shoot nutria in this fashion when there are huge over populations of them. As BVH stated, HID will be ideal for this task since you spotter carries the light himself, not the shooter. 

The other other way is with a night vision device such as the D-760-3a or 6x Raptor, both of which or prohibitively expensive, but would be required to see 8" targets at 300 yards.


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## liteitup (Feb 17, 2010)

step one. find old apache helicopter for parts (at your local junkyard most likely)
step two. remove the helmet aiming turret setup and helmet sensors/electronics.
step three. Mount a big lumen hid onto said turret and aim the light with the movement from the helmet. 
(optional) attach 30mm cannon on turret with light and fire hands free with incendiary ammo(fun).

step four, enjoy.

You can now take out your ground hog enemy while lounging in your lazyboy. As a added bonus the apache system comes with a great night vision system with great magnification to take out every last ground hog when the hid battery dies.


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## ahorton (Feb 17, 2010)

Sometimes there is so much talk I feel that I might as well join in and tell you what I know:

I have recently built a little 12V spotlight out of 3 SST-90s driven at full power (9A). The light is focused with 3 30mm aspherics.

The throw is useable up to 300m and the width of the square is about 80m wide.

Actually I made it for a friend who wants a to shoot kangaroos at a range of 400m. At that distance you really need it to be very low humidity to work.




My experiments with aspherics, XR-Es and SST-90s have shown me that for a given aspheric, the SST-90 will shine a beam with intensity (measured by a cheap DX Lux meter) about 75% (+/- 5%) of what an XR-E would produce. Of course the SST-90 is consuming 9x as much current and the projected die is 9x the area. NB: I used top bin LEDs in both cases.




So if you have an aspheric + XR-E combination that will shine 300m, then 2 SST-90s behind 2 of the same type of lens will give you about 50% more intensity at the same range.

I like using 3 in series because it make driving them (from a 12V vehicle) easy. So I'm getting about 230% more intensity than the XR-E at any range. These numbers were calculated, but they seem about right when I take out my XR-E aspherics to compare.

The extra thing about the triple SST-90 is that the side spill is great. There is no doubt that it is a thrower, since almost all the light it puts out is in a tiny angle, but the 5% that is lost out to the sides is probably about 300-400 lm. What's more, there are no funny rings. It's all very smooth flood with a very intense, square hotspot.

So two thumbs up for the SST-90 aspheric in my mind.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Egsise (Feb 17, 2010)

First you need a good low light scope, costs only 1000-2000$.


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## saabluster (Feb 17, 2010)

ahorton said:


> Sometimes there is so much talk I feel that I might as well join in and tell you what I know:
> 
> I have recently built a little 12V spotlight out of 3 SST-90s driven at full power (9A). The light is focused with 3 30mm aspherics.
> 
> ...


Well yeah you can do it with multiple LEDs and optics. Then it is just a matter of how many you go for. Look at what Data did with his array. Hardly fits in with what it seems the OP has in resources though. Besides, 18x the power just to beat the XR-E?


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## was.lost.but.now.found (Feb 17, 2010)

Egsise said:


> First you need a good low light scope, costs only 1000-2000$.


 
Nikon Monarch performs surprisingly well for its price range.


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## ahorton (Feb 17, 2010)

saabluster said:


> Well yeah you can do it with multiple LEDs and optics. Then it is just a matter of how many you go for. Look at what Data did with his array.



Agreed! Though three 30mm lenses fit nicely into a little handheld light.






saabluster said:


> Hardly fits in with what it seems the OP has in resources though.



I didn't think the OP was locked into using what they have. I thought they were looking for suggestions





saabluster said:


> Besides, 18x the power just to beat the XR-E?



Not quite 'just' beating the XR-E. 18 times the power to have 50% more intensity and 900% bigger area illuminated. So it's 18 times the power for 13.5 times as much light, but in a package 0.11 times as big as it would be if using 18 XR-Es.




Really I'm just reacting to the assumption that the SST-90 + aspheric combination is useless. I think it has great application in high power, vehicle mounted searchlights.


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## Patriot (Feb 17, 2010)

ahorton said:


> Really I'm just reacting to the assumption that the SST-90 + aspheric combination is useless. I think it has great application in high power, vehicle mounted searchlights.




You've obviously sorted out one heck of a spotlight that I've love to see a thread about here, but as Saabluster pointed out it's not really weapon mountable or practical away from a vehicle. As for handhelds, a $100 35W HID light will destroy the DEFT and any other aspheric LED creation presently available. So, if we're now talking about handhelds, the HID answer is obvious. 

If we're still talking about weapon mountable options I suppose that's going to leave us with the aspheric Tiablo head that I know other's have used in the past on rifles. 






> lost.but.found
> Nikon Monarch performs surprisingly well for its price range.



Yes, it sure does. In fact, the difference between the light transmission of a $300 scope and a $1500 scope is negligible, about 5-10%. In other words, any good quality, name brand optic is going to be sufficient for this type of task. More expensive optics offer the best of everything in many categories but sometimes the differences are small in each specific area. 

I will add that an illuminated reticle makes this task much easier since you don't have to rely on silhouetting a black reticle against the target. It allows one to accomplish the same thing with projecting less light downrange.


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## ahorton (Feb 17, 2010)

Patriot said:


> ... but as Saabluster pointed out it's not really weapon mountable or practical away from a vehicle...



True. I wasn't working with those requirements because all the guys I know that shoot, do so from a vehicle and have a second person holding the light. The OP (who has not been back) also didn't mention those requirements.

So no disagreement, just different ideas about what was needed. I'll shut up now unless the OP comes back.


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## foxtrot824 (Feb 17, 2010)

liteitup said:


> step one. find old apache helicopter for parts (at your local junkyard most likely)
> step two. remove the helmet aiming turret setup and helmet sensors/electronics.
> step three. Mount a big lumen hid onto said turret and aim the light with the movement from the helmet.
> (optional) attach 30mm cannon on turret with light and fire hands free with incendiary ammo(fun).
> ...



I like that approach:thumbsup:!
My junk yards only have old trucks :sigh:


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## clint357 (Feb 24, 2010)

Update....he now says that 150 yards will be ok. Hopefully it will stop snowing so Ican get some 150 yard plus shots with a 50mm aspheric and a 100mm condenser lens. The 100mm will throw 150 yards quite nicely though.


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## Jash (Feb 27, 2010)

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't an Olight SR90 fit the bill here?


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## Archie Cruz (Feb 27, 2010)

300 yds is a LONG way away from a varmint. 150yds is reasonable. Night scope is the ticket.


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## Mik (Feb 28, 2010)

IDK why he even wants LED for this application. I'll second or third the 35w HID spotlight idea. The Stanley one is $70 at Walmart.


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## Egsise (Feb 28, 2010)

clint357 said:


> Update....he now says that 150 yards will be ok.


Few nights a go I mounted a Fenix TK20 to my .308 which I use in moose hunting, to test how far I could shoot at night.
I would have been able to shoot accurately to 110 yards, and my scope is a cheapo Tasco 2-7x*32*.


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## andromeda.73 (Feb 28, 2010)

this is my LEDs that I installed on my surefire G2, over 500 Lum and Trow certainly over 300 yards!




:wave:


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## liteitup (Feb 28, 2010)

andromeda.73 said:


> this is my LEDs that I installed on my surefire G2, over 500 Lum and Trow certainly over 300 yards!
> 
> 
> 
> :wave:


are you sure?  300 yards is a lot more then a 500 lumen led can do me thinks.


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## carbine15 (Feb 28, 2010)

YOu might be able to see it from 300 yards.. but to throw enough light at a groundhog out that far you need a laser.


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## saabluster (Feb 28, 2010)

liteitup said:


> are you sure?  300 yards is a lot more then a 500 lumen led can do me thinks.


Yeah there is not a chance in the world that drop in could make it that far. It does not have anything to do with the lumen output however. You do know the DEFT putting out about 300 lumens can go way beyond 300 yards right?


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## andromeda.73 (Feb 28, 2010)

liteitup said:


> are you sure?  300 yards is a lot more then a 500 lumen led can do me thinks.



data are reported, even the Polarion states over 1.5 km for the PF40 ............
however, the scope is one thing, the way the lights is another ......
If you want a LED flashlight to give you lighting ferfetta to 300 Yards, then bought a nice Olight SR90 Intimidator! :tired:


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## Patriot (Mar 1, 2010)

Technically, if you can see a flashlight shining at you from any distance, even from miles away, it means that light photons are spanning the distance. This brings us back to this very subjective area of what's actually, practical and usable in various scenarios. 

It's pretty hard to see a person in subdued clothing standing still against a treeline at 300 yards in plain view with a 25W HID and 1800 focused lumens. Reduce the size of the target to a groundhog standing still at that distance and it's highly doubtful you'd ever recognize it as a groudhog. Reduce the lumens down to 1/5, and lose the HID's advantage of higher surface brightness in exchange for a relatively floody LED and you don't have a chance of seeing anything anything out there. In fact, the floodyness is actually a hindrance because it illuminates the foreground which reduces the eye's ability to see more faint and distant objects. The DEFT is the only LED light that can approach the 300 yard mark and still be relatively useful on objects as small as what we're talking about. The SR90 will not accomplish this. Yes, it produces a lot of lumens but it's not going to be as bright as the DEFT in measured lux. 

Windstrings, don't you have a DEFT? Give us some 100+ yard beamshots next to your SR90 if you get the chance.


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## carbine15 (Mar 1, 2010)

We should assume a scope is involved in this equation. Also a bi-pod or rifle rest would be used. For ground hogs at 300 yards in the dark; I'd walk up on them and start shooting at 50 yards.


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## Egsise (Mar 1, 2010)

Read all the posts guys, only 150 yards.


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## Patriot (Mar 1, 2010)

Egsise said:


> Read all the posts guys, only 150 yards.




Most were responding the the re-opening of the 300 yard comment in Andromeda's post when he mentioned the generic quad-die drop-in.


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## clint357 (Mar 2, 2010)

I told him that a one-off SST-50 light with a battery pack and aluminum housing for the led, driver, and 100mm lens would be about $250-300 and he said that he's going to just buy this http://nativeoutdoors.stores.yahoo.net/pr62363.html instead. Does anyone have anything that will compete with this for $150 or less?


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## Mik (Mar 2, 2010)

I alreadycalled it. Stanley 35w HID from walmart. $70


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## andromeda.73 (Mar 2, 2010)

good is also the Sunforce 25 Million Candlepower HID Rechargeable Spotlight for just $ 89.99! :twothumbs


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## Patriot (Mar 2, 2010)

Mik said:


> I alreadycalled it. Stanley 35w HID from walmart. $70





Ditto.


Clint, this is far more effective spotlight than the one your friend has picked out.


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## clint357 (Mar 2, 2010)

Yeah, those look like they throw quite a bit of light, but I think he wants something that he can easily attach to his rifle.


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