# HID warm-up graphs



## Superfonarik.ru (Jun 17, 2009)

Hello everybody!

I've seen no similar reviews yet, so I guess that we are first to measure startup graphs of popular HID flashlights. We believed previously that all HIDs warm-up the same way. Some ballasts are faster, some are slower, lamps differ, etc.
But we suddenly discovered that Polarion PF50 ballast does a very crazy job to boost HID output to around 10000 lumen (so getting to nominal 5200lm in just 3 seconds, cold start), then slowly settling down to 5200lm.
That's really amazing flashlight!

The PSS-01 is a generic 3500-lumen HID made of automotive HID lamp and similar ballast. The raised area on red graph between 0-8sec comes from xenon burning (and giving some instant light) while main metal-halide mixture is heating up.







Lights to go: Surefire Beast, Microfire Warrior, and maybe some top-cost cars HIDs


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## Patriot (Jun 17, 2009)

Great graph for the PH50! I've found the same results with my own light and I suspect all the others operate the same way. I tested mine with a light meter so I've only got raw lux data. 

How were you able to measure lumens....do you have an Integrating Sphere?


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## Superfonarik.ru (Jun 17, 2009)

We are building our Sphere currently, but that work is far away from end 

Actually I've adjusted graphs to manufacturer-declared output, which seems to be quite accurate. At least, all our indirect luminous flux-evaluating methods show more or less the same.


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## DM51 (Jun 17, 2009)

Excellent idea for a thread. Members will find this very useful when deciding which HID light would suit them best.


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## Litbobber (Jun 17, 2009)

Great idea, I have a polarion PF-50 that does what the graph shows.
Cant wait to see other comparisons, really cool thanks for this!


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## Mjolnir (Jun 17, 2009)

I would be interested in seeing what the startup graph for the Stanley HID would be, since it also "overcharges" the bulb for the first few seconds.


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## Patriot (Jun 17, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> I would be interested in seeing what the startup graph for the Stanley HID would be, since it also "overcharges" the bulb for the first few seconds.




I think it's been done already, just not in graph form.


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## Superfonarik.ru (Jun 17, 2009)

If someone send raw lux data to me, I can add that to graphs also.


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## Patriot (Jun 18, 2009)

Now that I go back and look at my data, my PH50 peaked at 530 lux and settled to 368 lux. So, my light didn't show nearly twice the output at 8 seconds as yours did but still shows a large difference between peak and nominal. I may retest now that you've peaked my curiosity again. 


Please do post the raw lux data, that would be great.

Thanks again.


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## Superfonarik.ru (Jun 18, 2009)

I'll retest also. Did you measure it from "cold" state with fresh-off-charger battery? What is the total runtime of your item?


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Jun 18, 2009)

This is a great idea SuperFonarik,hopefully we can get start-up graphs for all common HID's!:twothumbs


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## Patriot (Jun 18, 2009)

Superfonarik.ru said:


> I'll retest also. Did you measure it from "cold" state with fresh-off-charger battery? What is the total runtime of your item?




The light was "charged" but not hot off the charger. In other words it was probably charged two months prior and placed in the safe. Since the PH50 is regulated and because li-ion cells have very low self discharge rates I'm not sure if this is going to make a much, if any difference but I've been surprised by unexpected results in the past. It's certainly easy enough to top off charge to battery and conduct my informal test again. This isn't to say that I don't trust your test results, since I fully do. Instead, I just believe we're seeing the difference rooted in sample variation. 

Total run-time for my light is 58 minutes iirc. I only ever officially measured the run-time once when it was new. I will say that my particular PH50 seems very bright. I ran a series of comparison tests and beamshots between it and my PH40 at the time and the performance difference was striking. Much more than what I thought a 10W difference would account for. My guess was that either my PH40 was slightly under average or my PH50 was a bit above average. I didn't own a light meter back then so I'm purely speculating.


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## Superfonarik.ru (Jun 18, 2009)

Patriot, it seems like testing conditions are similar. I think that low charge (say, 20-30%) or extensive wear (some thousands hours run time) can make the graph differ much, but our differences are indeed most likely sample-to-sample variations. We'll also take graphs for some different samples we have.

I have also noticed that striking difference between PF40 and PF50, it's easily about 30% brighter, as seen by naked eye. Taking into account the logarithmic sensivity of an eye, the difference in output looks like twice.
We don't have 40s in stock now, but I'll certainly measure that once we get them from Polarion.

Or maybe Ken Good does have both and can take that lux readings for lights when there is some free time? 

Anton.


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## Patriot (Jun 19, 2009)

Ok, I retested with a topped off battery. The position of the light and light meter were not exactly the same but all I'm looking for is the relative difference between peak and nominal output. 

Peak during start was 522
nominal run after 2 min. 320

Slightly more spread than the 530 and 368 that I got before. It appears that my light either isn't peaking as highly or settling as low as yours. Still, if it's producing 5200 lumens nominally it's peaking to around 9000 lumens which is amazing to me.

Equally exciting and impressive is the 5200 lumens at 3 seconds!!!


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## vee73 (Jun 21, 2009)

Is it possible that the color temperature affect the measurement? I find it hard to believe that the measurement is true. As the eyes of the 
light clears the first 3 seconds. My measurements show the same as for the other. I am still skeptical


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## Superfonarik.ru (Jun 21, 2009)

vee73, can you take lux readings for first 30 seconds of warm-up of your Polarion? All our samples show more or less the same peak-and-stabilize behaviour.

I think it's not the case where CCT can affect the results. Anyway, color change during Polarion warm-up is much shorter and is much less noticeable than for other HIDs.


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## Patriot (Jun 22, 2009)

Vee73, I'm not sure that I understood your post. Were you able to test your lights with a meter or were you just saying that to the naked eye it didn't appear to be nearly double the output?

I must say that I never would have guessed that my light was 35-40% brighter at 7 seconds that it was at 30 seconds but the eyes and brain do a very poor job of tracking light differences over time.

Regarding the light meter favoring a certain spot in the spectrum, I'm sure that's a tiny portion of that is reflected in the test but the range from start to nominal run is pretty much centered in the visible spectrum. For this reason I don't think the meter itself is a cause of any major variation. I would guess far less than 5% and possibly even less than 1% in the case of quality light meters.


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## vee73 (Jun 23, 2009)

PH50 warm-up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWV_urlEAAc

PH40 warm-up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSQdsZWt_RQ

Lightbox accurately presented:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHeqP3BZSuY


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## Illum (Jun 23, 2009)

Superfonarik.ru said:


>



interesting, Polarion did a good job covering up that starting flash
When I was still using the amondotech N30 there was an initial high output [lamp firing] then dimmed a bit before growing progressively brighter..


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## Superfonarik.ru (Jun 23, 2009)

vee73, your data almost exactly duplicates graph in 1st post. 

Your lightbox device looks cool


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## vee73 (Jun 23, 2009)

http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/mediaobjects/orig/pub/2009/06/23/8143010478551846110orig.jpg 





 
The results are indeed identical.:twothumbs

I am still of the opinion that the light does not actually have the beginning of brighter.


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## Patriot (Jun 23, 2009)

Thanks Vee,

Those test results are very close to what I'm getting. You're using the same light meter that I am.


Your PH50 was 919-500
Your PH40 was 593-338


Great light box too!


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