# LeefBody 2x18650 + Pila 600P + P91 = Blindness!



## Dave. (Apr 3, 2007)

Finally all the parts are here, assembled and charged, and boy was it worth the wait! 

My Surefire 9P just completed its latest upgrade, with a new Leefbody 2x18650 and now a brand new set of Pila 600Ps along with a Pila Charger. My first impressions are mostly green coloured and filling the entire center of my field of vision! I'm actually having to look to the side a bit to type!

Up until now I was running my P91 on a pair of AW's 17670s, and although they are excellent and will remain a faithful companion to my L4, the P91 was stretching them a bit. It was always a bit yellowish and tired looking after the first couple of minutes away from the charger. I wanted a set up that would get the very best from the assembly and from the looks of it I'm not far off the mark now.

The replacement Pila 600P cells and charger are of impressive quality. The charger comes in a nice presentation box with a loose carry bag which I thought was a nice touch given the price tag. The cells look frankly bomb-proof, and I appreciate the very solid contacts at each end as well as the high quality wrapping and clear polarity markings. I whacked the first set on to charge not long after unpacking everything and they were ready a few hours later.

Not before checking their fit with the LeefBody though, and I am happy to report that they fit *perfectly*.  There is about half a millimeter or so clearance, just barely enough for them to rattle ever so slightly before the tailcap went on, after which they were locked in tight. No need to dunt the body to free the cells either, they just slide right out. (Of course your mileage may vary.) As for the LeefBody itself, I have to say it is in a different league altogether than the standard 9P body. I know this isn't a fair comparison given it is more comparable to the C3 but I have little doubt it would hold its own there too. Construction is faultless and as far as I am concerned the simple design is more appealing than that of the C3.

Anyway, I was at least sensible enough to have the thing pointed away from me when I loaded up the cells fresh from the charger, but the ensuing blaze of light was still enough to make me jump! I'd forgotten what a fresh P91 looked like, and this was brighter than even that. The intensity of the center of the hotspot is greater than the 17670s, or even primaries ever gave. Outside throw is greater and contrast and definition are both enhanced at mid-range and maintained a lot further into the throw. Which, yes, is a fancy way of saying it's brighter! My point is however it's actually more *useful* light too. Especially as I already have my L4, the P91 is now a different beast altogether and not just a slighty brighter and warmer tone of light. It makes the L4 look like moonlight in the face of a car headlight!

I cant wait to cycle the cells a couple of times and get them up to up to their full potential, as well as see how much of a difference the extra runtime makes and how performance holds throughout. I've also got a Lumensfactory EO9 on the way and it'll be interesting to see how the two compare now I've seen what a P91 really can do. 

Til then I am going to be outside, scaring the wildlife and confusing the hell out of my dogs by meandering about the place lighting up things and giggling like a fool! 

Dave.


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## mdocod (Apr 3, 2007)

> Til then I am going to be outside, scaring the wildlife and confusing the hell out of my dogs by meandering about the place lighting up things and giggling like a fool!



sounds like something I would do!!


nice setup! 

I got a drill press yesterday- so I am going to experiment with boring out a body to fit some AW 18650s to run my P91.


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## NotRegulated (Apr 3, 2007)

I have been using the same setup except I've been using AW's batteries.

My first was with a 9P and two 17670's, then I moved to the larger batteries with a Tranquillitybase 2x18650 with the P91. Now I've been using the LEEF 2x18650 which I think may be the best. Very impressive. Just this week I took delivery of a LF E0-9 bulb. The beam is rounder and has more throw than the P91 which is a bit more floody and an ovalish shape. I think the E0-9 is a winner in this setup. I've heard that lamp life will be less than the P91 but it costs about half of a P91. I draws less amps and should put less strain on the batteries. It may also be a good setup for use with the 17670 batteries.

I also have a LEEF 2x18500 body with a P91. This is the smallest setup I know of that powers the P91 in this form factor.


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## Danbo (Apr 4, 2007)

Why not use two 18650s? Isn't that what the body is designed for?


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## NotRegulated (Apr 4, 2007)

I have two Leef bodies. One is a 2x18500 and the other is 2x18650. I am using 18500 and 18650 batteries in them.


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## Alin10123 (Apr 5, 2007)

Got any pics of the light?


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## brunt_sp (Apr 5, 2007)

I used to use the P91 in a SF G3 with 2 X AW 17500. This needed double clicking whereas the LF EO-9 bulbs light up first click every time.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 5, 2007)

Danbo said:


> Why not use two 18650s? Isn't that what the body is designed for?


The Pilas will deliver more voltage under a heavy load. Also, Pilas make more sense if you have other bodies that are designed for the longer, thicker 168A or 600P cells.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 5, 2007)

My EDC is similar: Wolf Eyes 1x168A Sniper + 1x168A Wolf Eyes extender + two Wolf Eyes 168A cells. However, the Leef would seem more practical: You needn't insert a copper spacer between body and extender to provide continuity; you needn't unthread the body from the extender to remove the upper cell (whose exit is blocked by the copper ring); and there's no copper ring to lose. Also, with the Leef you can use a Surefire head and Surefire head accessories (traffic wands, BeamShapers, filters). I'd love to see the Leef-Surefire and Wolf Eyes bodies side by side.


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## Dave. (Apr 5, 2007)

Heh, you are welcome to a pic of the light, but it wont show you much as the body is well wrapped in paracord already and there's no way I am undoing it! 







More importantly though, my Cree drop-in and EO-9 arrived, so with any luck I should be able to get some beamshots up soon for comparison. 

It is a very simple setup though, and very rewarding. Given it can very feasibly be carried fulltime in a carpenter's pocket like I have, or just in a jacket pocket, the output is staggering. No double-clicks and so far no real sag in output. I can illuminate well beyond what I can really make use of, save for maybe signalling folk on the other side of the valley! Always fun to get a flash tag going with the campers. 

Hopefully beamshots soon, though I might start a new thread for them in General. I'll give you a sneak preview and say that the EO-9 might just have won me over, and that the LITEmania Cree drop-in is pretty damn impressive...


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## Tessaiga (Apr 16, 2007)

How long will 2 X 18650 light the P91 for and is the output semi-regulated of sorts??

A noob question.. where can I buy the 2 X 18650 Leef body from??


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## Action (Apr 16, 2007)

I don't know about the runtime, but for a P91 its about the best setup around.

LightHound sells the Leef stuff.



Tessaiga said:


> How long will 2 X 18650 light the P91 for and is the output semi-regulated of sorts??
> 
> A noob question.. where can I buy the 2 X 18650 Leef body from??


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## Inova his head (Apr 16, 2007)

A fresh P91? Does the power of the bulb decrease, or do you mean as in with fresh batteries?


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## NotRegulated (Apr 16, 2007)

I believe that he means a P91 bulb on freshly charged li-on's.


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## Strauss (Apr 16, 2007)

I wanna see some beamshots  I am gonna pick one of those 2x18650 bodies up myself in a few weeks. I have a KT2 turbohead that I am gonna run an MN21 in on the new body. Currently, I am running an MN16 off 2x17670's...so I am excited to step it up a notch :naughty: I think I may have to pick up one of the LF E0-9's to try out also.

Anyone have any experience with a KL5 head on 2x18650's?


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## NotRegulated (Apr 16, 2007)

Incidentally, I think that the 2x18650 powered P91/E-09 is one of the better setups around. I happen to like the Leef bodies not only because of their quality and HA finish, but also because they are like the original round Surefire bodies which I like and they are interchangeable with Surefire bezels and tailcaps. Leef's own tailcaps are also pretty nice containing the McGizmo McClicky which I have found to be very reliable.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 16, 2007)

Tessaiga said:


> How long will 2 X 18650 light the P91 for?


If fully charged, it will deliver light for about 40 minutes till the cells quit. If a cell is nominally rated at 2200 mAh, it will deliver about 20 percent less, or 1800 mAh, when depleted at 2.6 or 2.7 amps. 1800 / 2700 = 0.67 hour or 40 minutes.



Tessaiga said:


> and is the output semi-regulated of sorts??


No, not at all.



Tessaiga said:


> A noob question.. where can I buy the 2 X 18650 Leef body from??


Lighthound.


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## Tessaiga (Apr 16, 2007)

Lighthound sells the C series ones.. is that the one??


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## mdocod (Apr 16, 2007)

yea, I think you want the C head/tailcap version for the P91 or other 26mm lamp types...


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## Tessaiga (Apr 16, 2007)

Will a 9P bezel and tailcap fit into a C series 2 X 18650 Leefbody??

It should right? Considering that the 6P and 9P are identical in size, just that the 9P is longer. And that the 6P uses 26mm lamp types...


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## GeorgePaul (Apr 17, 2007)

Tessaiga said:


> Will a 9P bezel and tailcap fit into a C series 2 X 18650 Leefbody??


Yes.


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## trouble (Apr 17, 2007)

Nice setup! I look forward to some beamshots.


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## cfromc (Apr 18, 2007)

I am seriously considering the 2x18500 body because I believe I could use 3 primaries in a pinch. With the 2X18650 it would be more like 4 primaries and I'd have to switch bulbs. I'm wondering why there is so much of a capacity difference between 18500s (2200 mAh?) vs. 17500s (1100mAh?). Obviously the 17500s would be nice and just drop right in (at least on my C3) but there is a big hit on capacity and discharge rate.


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## NotRegulated (Apr 18, 2007)

cfromc,
You are confused or made a typo. 18500's have 1500mAH. The 18650's have 2200mAH. 

I have the 2x18500 body from Leef. I am currently using 2x18500's with a P91 bulb. It also uses 3xCR123 primaries just fine. If you keep a SC1 spares carrier with a P90 bulb and six CR123's in it you will have a fine setup to use when the 18500's run out.

The 17500's work fine with the P90 bulb in my 9P.


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## stockae92 (Apr 18, 2007)

i am thinking of a couple of set up with 2 x 18650 (protected)

P90 should work with no problem

P91 should work? at least with double click?

how about M3T LOHA? M3T HOLA? (shouldn't they draw only slightly higher current than P91?)


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## trouble (Apr 18, 2007)

stockae92 said:


> i am thinking of a couple of set up with 2 x 18650 (protected)
> 
> P90 should work with no problem
> 
> ...


Yes a MN15 or MN16 run fine on 2x18650's, these are the 2 LA's for the M3T.


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## mdocod (Apr 18, 2007)

The MN16 appears to be the same bulb as a P91, just on a different assembly.


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## stockae92 (Apr 18, 2007)

does it require double click with protected 18650 cells?


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## ampdude (Apr 18, 2007)

mdocod said:


> The MN16 appears to be the same bulb as a P91, just on a different assembly.




I think it's the same bulb as the MN11, not the P91..

P91 draws a little more current and I think is a little less efficient overall.


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## mdocod (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm pretty sure all 3 are the same bulb.

and I'm pretty sure that they all draw the same current, and deliver equal efficiency when driven at the same voltage.


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## duckpotatoes (Apr 18, 2007)

Wish there was a 3 cell M series body made. Anyone know if one is on the way?


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## ampdude (Apr 20, 2007)

mdocod said:


> I'm pretty sure all 3 are the same bulb.
> 
> and I'm pretty sure that they all draw the same current, and deliver equal efficiency when driven at the same voltage.




The current draw of the P91 compared to the MN11/16 lamps is different.


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## brendanh (Oct 16, 2007)

Hey, can i confirm that if you have a surefire 9p and you purchase the 2x 18650 leefbody c tail e head. Everything will fit fine? tail switch and bezel? Also 2x Pila 600p will power up a p90 and 91 perfectly fine without any more modifications? Ie you will achieve the brightness that surefire intended from the p91/p90 safely? Thanks


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## merlocka (Oct 16, 2007)

brendanh said:


> Hey, can i confirm that if you have a surefire 9p and you purchase the 2x 18650 leefbody c tail e head. Everything will fit fine? tail switch and bezel? Also 2x Pila 600p will power up a p90 and 91 perfectly fine without any more modifications? Ie you will achieve the brightness that surefire intended from the p91/p90 safely? Thanks



I think you want C head if you plan to fit the P91 / 9P bezel. I'm sure someone else will chime in to confirm/deny.


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## merlocka (Oct 16, 2007)

cfromc said:


> I am seriously considering the 2x18500 body because I believe I could use 3 primaries in a pinch. With the 2X18650 it would be more like 4 primaries and I'd have to switch bulbs. I'm wondering why there is so much of a capacity difference between 18500s (2200 mAh?) vs. 17500s (1100mAh?). Obviously the 17500s would be nice and just drop right in (at least on my C3) but there is a big hit on capacity and discharge rate.



This is my dilemma... I want the 2x18500 or 3xprimaries option with P91... but according to MD's lithium/incan guide:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/161536

2x 18500's - SF P91: 20W, 320 - 170 lumen in 28 minutes
2x 18650's - SF P91: 20W, 360 - 215 lumen in 43 minutes

The P91 is drawing up to 2.7A which is just under 2C for the 18500, so, the 18650's will give the P91 a bit more kick-in-the-butt. 

I would love to see a body that would let me use 2 "C" cells with the P91


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## mdocod (Oct 16, 2007)

The difference on paper is causing you way too much dilemma, it takes about a 30% difference to be a noticeable step in brightness, you're looking at a 12% difference, no need to fret about that difference at all. Make your decision based on runtime or form factor requirements here and don't worry about the output. Besides, running P91 on 18650s or "C" size li-ions is really going to get up to where the bulb isn't nearly as reliable, 2x18500 has the advantage of being less apt to prematurely fry the lamp.


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## brendanh (Oct 17, 2007)

mdocod said:


> The difference on paper is causing you way too much dilemma, it takes about a 30% difference to be a noticeable step in brightness, you're looking at a 12% difference, no need to fret about that difference at all. Make your decision based on runtime or form factor requirements here and don't worry about the output. Besides, running P91 on 18650s or "C" size li-ions is really going to get up to where the bulb isn't nearly as reliable, 2x18500 has the advantage of being less apt to prematurely fry the lamp.


 
Can u clarify a bit more on how 2x 18650 will cause the p91 to be not as nearly reliable. Any idea what kind of bulb life we would be talkin about?


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## stockae92 (Oct 17, 2007)

in short (from my understanding):

the voltage of li ion rechargeable doesn't sag as much as primary CR123 under heavy load (high drain)

so the voltage stay higher for longer, and the SF HOLA LA is designed for the voltage of primary CR123 under heavy load (lower voltage than li ion rechargeable)

so the LA is running higher voltage, brighter, but may have shorter service life as well

i forgot the exact number, but the numbers come out voltage of 2 x li ion rechargeable under heave load is greater than the voltage of 2 x primary CR123 under heavy load


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## mdocod (Oct 17, 2007)

Surefire rates their P91 at 30 hours average life on 3xCR123. 3 CR123s sag under the load of the P91 to about 6.75V (2.25V ea) and drive about 2.5 Amps across the filament. An 18650 will actually start off somewhere around 3.8V per cell, or about 7.6V to the bulb in that load range, the increase in voltage ramps up the current flow to about 2.7 amp fresh off the charger. Also increases brightness by about 50% over stock. When you run a bulb harder, you loose life...at 7.6V a P91 re-rates to about 7 hours average life, which is definitely in the insta-flash zone. However, li-ion cells will steadily drop off in voltage through the run, finishing off around 3.2V per cell or so... (pulling numbers off the top of head here...).... So the lamp only spends a short time being exposed to all that ooomf, but that short time fresh off the charger is definitely pushing the lamp into a place where the likelihood of premature failure is notably higher... Running 18500s will generally start ya off a hair lower on initial voltage and reduce the chances of a premature failure. At any rate, the average life when you run a P91 on li-ion cells is going to be lower, throwing out exact numbers is tough for many reasons. But I generally consider the P91/MN11/MN16 lamps have about 5-20 hours of life on big li-ion cells.


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## brendanh (Oct 20, 2007)

Thanks for all that info! appreciate it


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## DM51 (Oct 20, 2007)

brendanh, just to confirm that you need the C-C fitting. The E-fitting is for the small E-series and L-series SF lights. C is for everything else except M-series heads, which need the M-fitting. 

However, you will find it difficult to get your hands on a C-C (or C-M)2x18500 or 2x18650 LeefBody - Lighthound are waiting patiently for new stock from Leef, who at the moment seems to be busy with other projects.


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## TKO (Jan 9, 2008)

Just a heads up, Lighthound has some new leef bodies in stock. I just order a 2 x 18650 C head/tail to run my P91:devil:


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## Dr.K (Jan 10, 2008)

I just put together this very same set up, as my "1st light of 08"

Super Bad A**!


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## powernoodle (Jan 10, 2008)

I have a similar setup with a SF 6P + (2x A19 extenders - I think thats what they are called) + P91 + 2xPila. If I had a Top 10 list, it would be on it. 











_Stock SF plastic lens has bubbled from the blast furnace._


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## TKO (Jan 13, 2008)

got my Leef body and am having problems with Surefire tailcap compatibility

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2311987#post2311987


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## Germ (Jan 13, 2008)

powernoodle said:


> I have a similar setup with a SF 6P + (2x A19 extenders - I think thats what they are called) + P91 + 2xPila. If I had a Top 10 list, it would be on it.
> 
> _Stock SF plastic lens has bubbled from the blast furnace._


 
powernoodle, how long does it take to bubble the plastic lens? I gave a cousin a G3L and a P91 to put in it. I told him no more than a couple minutes with the P91, but I don't know for sure.


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## Leef (Jan 13, 2008)

*Duckpotatoes*, you (and others) may be happy to learn that there are 6x (3x18650) Leef Bodies in both C-C and C-M in production right now. The C-Ms are almost finished. Depending on how quickly the plater works, they should be on the Hound's shelves in 2-3 weeks.


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## Paladin (Jan 13, 2008)

Leef said:


> *Duckpotatoes*, you (and others) may be happy to learn that there are 6x (3x18650) Leef Bodies in both C-C and C-M in production right now. The C-Ms are almost finished. Depending on how quickly the plater works, they should be on the Hound's shelves in 2-3 weeks.


 
Any idea when some C-M 2x18650's in HA natural will be available?

Paladin


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## Leef (Jan 13, 2008)

*Paladin*, I'm waiting to get the 6x C-Cs and C-Ms from the CNC shop before I have any bodies plated in gray. That way, they'll (theoretically) all be the same. Gray plating varies a bit, where the black plating is pretty consistent.

So I'd expect all the gray parts in ~3 weeks.


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## Icebreak (Jan 15, 2008)

mdocod (or powernoodle) -

I don't understand how Powernoodle is doing that. I thought 18650/168A/600P wouldn't fit and 17670/168B/600S couldn't handle a P91. I've got a Z3 with P91 I'd like to use Li-Ions in but I don't want to loose the form factor of the barrel.


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## Casebrius (Jan 15, 2008)

Does anyone else make c-c bodies for use with 2x18650's? Leef's are first rate, but the price is a bt hard to chew off! :duh2:


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## gsnorm (Jan 15, 2008)

Leef said:


> *Paladin*, I'm waiting to get the 6x C-Cs and C-Ms from the CNC shop before I have any bodies plated in gray. That way, they'll (theoretically) all be the same. Gray plating varies a bit, where the black plating is pretty consistent.
> 
> So I'd expect all the gray parts in ~3 weeks.


 

Leef, can you confirm that there will be both 6x (3x18650) C-M AND C-C Leefbodies? I ask because I phoned Lighthound and as they are familiar with the C-M bodies from the previous run, they have not heard anything about the C-C bodies in the 6x size. Thanks.


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## powernoodle (Jan 15, 2008)

Germ said:


> powernoodle, how long does it take to bubble the plastic lens?



Sorry, Mr. Germ, but I honestly don't know how long it took. :shrug:


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## adamlau (Jan 23, 2008)

Dave. said:


> The replacement Pila 600P cells and charger are of impressive quality. The charger comes in a nice presentation box with a loose carry bag which I thought was a nice touch given the price tag. The cells look frankly bomb-proof, and I appreciate the very solid contacts at each end as well as the high quality wrapping and clear polarity markings


I agree. Just received a set of Pila 600S cells today. No button tops, but we will see how they fare soon enough.


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## ampdude (Jan 24, 2008)

I had some Pila cells a few months back, newest style with the fat button top. While they were on the way to me I started thinking about it. My suspicions were confirmed when I got them, I had to double click to fire up the P91. Got rid of them for some of AW's new button top 18500's.


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## etc (Oct 13, 2008)

BTT

Cool stuff. I have a Surefire 9P with Malkoff and am waiting for FiveMega 2x18500 and 2x18650 bodies. 
Also ordering the Pila charger. 

Where do you find Pila cells? What exactly are their advantages over AW protected cells, if any?


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 13, 2008)

Casebrius said:


> Does anyone else make c-c bodies for use with 2x18650's? Leef's are first rate, but the price is a bt hard to chew off! :duh2:



Try this. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/209549

Bill


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## metlarules (Oct 13, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Try this. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/209549
> 
> Bill


 All sold out.:sick2:


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 13, 2008)

OMG, sorry. I did not stroll all the way down. Yesterday there were some available. Personally, I would like a 1X18650 CC.

Bill


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## mdocod (Oct 13, 2008)

I just noticed that FM sale on bodies, I went ahead and ordered a pair of 18500 bodies (2x18650 bodies sold out before I took notice to the sale!), at this price, I can't pass it up!!

I have some cheapo ($7) 1 cell extenders on the way as well, I'm thinking about ordering a 47/64ths or 23/32ths bit and trying to bore to fit 18mm cells on the drill press. I'm thinking that since the bore depth through a short extender isn't too long, I might be able to do it on the drill press  

Eric


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## ampdude (Oct 14, 2008)

That's for posting that, I never would have noticed it otherwise. I hope I have better luck with these than with the past three Leef bodies I've tried.


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## etc (Oct 14, 2008)

ampdude said:


> I had some Pila cells a few months back, newest style with the fat button top. While they were on the way to me I started thinking about it. My suspicions were confirmed when I got them, I had to double click to fire up the P91. Got rid of them for some of AW's new button top 18500's.



I am glad I read this --- I think I will get "new" AW cells over Pila.


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## ampdude (Oct 14, 2008)

The Pila's are very high quality cells, the protection circuit just isn't up to the job of running a high drain lamp.

AW's cells might have a little more capacity as well.


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## Nite (Oct 14, 2008)

tranquillitybase 2x18650? Where do I get one?



NotRegulated said:


> I have been using the same setup except I've been using AW's batteries.
> 
> My first was with a 9P and two 17670's, then I moved to the larger batteries with a Tranquillitybase 2x18650 with the P91. Now I've been using the LEEF 2x18650 which I think may be the best. Very impressive. Just this week I took delivery of a LF E0-9 bulb. The beam is rounder and has more throw than the P91 which is a bit more floody and an ovalish shape. I think the E0-9 is a winner in this setup. I've heard that lamp life will be less than the P91 but it costs about half of a P91. I draws less amps and should put less strain on the batteries. It may also be a good setup for use with the 17670 batteries.
> 
> I also have a LEEF 2x18500 body with a P91. This is the smallest setup I know of that powers the P91 in this form factor.


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 14, 2008)

ampdude said:


> That's for posting that, I never would have noticed it otherwise. I hope I have better luck with these than with the past three Leef bodies I've tried.



What problems did you have with Leef bodies? I had an M head Leef 18650 body and had some problems with electrical contact. 

Bill


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## NotRegulated (Oct 14, 2008)

Nite said:


> tranquillitybase 2x18650? Where do I get one?



I don't know if he is making them at present. He is a member here on CPF. Proper spelling of his CPF handle is: TranquillityBase


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## ampdude (Oct 15, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> What problems did you have with Leef bodies? I had an M head Leef 18650 body and had some problems with electrical contact.
> 
> Bill




Same. Could not get three different Leef C-C 2X18500 bodies to work right. I think his tail threads are too short and not to Surefire specs. I don't want to hijack this thread, so there are posts and pictures of it in the old Leef threads.


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## Sgt. LED (Oct 15, 2008)

Milky might be making the Leef bodies before long.

But he has to have a good long talk with Leef first.


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