# Colored Eneloops



## ccf (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm just learning about rechargeable batteries & have a couple questions about Eneloops. Are the light & dark blue AAs as well as the light & dark green AAAs the same as the white Eneloops (as far as technology)? Any differences?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.


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## llmercll (Mar 11, 2011)

I believe the colored ones are the newer model and are meant to have a longer shelf life.


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## ElectronGuru (Mar 11, 2011)

The white models are rated to 1000 charges

The color models are rated to 1500 charges


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## ccf (Mar 11, 2011)

thanx, guys


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## Ian2381 (Mar 11, 2011)

theres a white with 1500 cycles, look at the eneloops with crown imprint to determine if its the new version (1500cycles). the colors are limited editions but same with white with crown imprints.


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## DM51 (Mar 11, 2011)

I'm moving this to the Batteries section.


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## jasonck08 (Mar 11, 2011)

ElectronGuru said:


> The white models are rated to 1000 charges
> 
> The color models are rated to 1500 charges



Not always, they have some white only models now that are rated at 1500 cycles.


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## turnipfarmer (Mar 11, 2011)

I have some white Eneloops that are the new 1500 charge ones.


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## Russel (Mar 11, 2011)

I just purchased some of the new Eneloops with the crown symbol. I had to dig the packaging out of the trash to get this photograph, that is why the 1 on the 1500 number is a little hard to read.


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## ccf (Mar 11, 2011)

Thanks for the info about the crown on the white Eneloops. Also, just to be sure, I'm assuming the light/dark blue/green batteries are the exact same, correct (no differences between light/dark models)?

Is there a specific reason why some are light blue/green & some are dark blue/green? Just curious.


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## mrlysle (Mar 11, 2011)

Just marketing strategy, I would assume. There was actually a thread sometime the latter part of last year from someone who was bummed out about "plain white" eneloops and wanted something more colorful, IIRC.


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## ElectronGuru (Mar 11, 2011)

When the 1500's first came out, they were in limited edition 8 color sets. They reduced the number of colors when scaling up production.


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## jasonck08 (Mar 11, 2011)

ElectronGuru said:


> When the 1500's first came out, they were in limited edition 8 color sets. They reduced the number of colors when scaling up production.



Correct, but I think those 8 color sets were just for the Asian markets. In the US, Costco has a powerpack that has 4xAA light blue 4x AA dark blue 2AAA light green and 2AAA dark green.


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## Mikl1984 (Mar 12, 2011)

Colored cells are in Europe too http://www.eneloop.info/en/products/batteries.html
There are 2 variants (20 Euro per Pack in German Saturn for example)


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## ccf (Mar 12, 2011)

Cool. Looks like it's just a marketing thing.

Thanks, again. :thumbsup:


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## ccf (Mar 12, 2011)

I do have one more question. I was thinking of getting the Apple charger (it charges 2 at a time & comes with 6 rebranded Eneloops). I'm sure most of you guys know that (better than me), but my question is does the Sanyo charger power off by itself like the Apple charger does (after 5 hours)? 

The Sanyo charges 4 at a time & comes with 8 AAs/4 AAAs for roughly the same price so it's a much better deal. However, I have a busy lifestyle & I need the automatic shutoff. If the Sanyo charger has that feature, I'm getting it. Anybody know?


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## Rej (Mar 12, 2011)

Which ever charger you get....make sure it charges cells 'individually'! Otherwise you will have issues if one battery has more of a charge then then 2nd battery, or say if one battery is older.

Be careful with the Sanyo chargers, if its the newer 'MQN06' model it only charges in pairs, the older MQN05 apparently had individual channels. I have not heard about the apple charger, so I can't comment.

If it was me...I'd buy the Maha C9000 Wizard one charger ( I own two now!), best charger for AA & AAA ever made IMHO. You can pick this up for less than $50 and I've seen specials here in Canada for $82 which includes (8) Imedion AA batteries.
You can always get deals on the eneloops ...but the charger quality should never be sacrificed!


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## ccf (Mar 12, 2011)

Rej,

I appreciate the advice. I'm going to follow it. :thumbsup:


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## Mr Happy (Mar 12, 2011)

By the way, the Apple charger does not have rebranded Eneloops. They are rebranded something else.


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## ccf (Mar 12, 2011)

Mr Happy said:


> By the way, the Apple charger does not have rebranded Eneloops. They are rebranded something else.



My bad. I thought for sure I read that somewhere.

Thanks!


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## VSOP333 (Mar 18, 2011)

Russel, I've scoured the web to find someone with the same Eneloop packaging! I think my new version Eneloops are fake because the tip on the positive + end is not squarish and does not have the tiny vents like they discuss here

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...real-or-fake&p=3041489&viewfull=1#post3041489


Also, ALL Eneloops say "DO NOT DISPOSE OF IN FIRE, NOR SHORT CIRCUIT". Do yours say that? 

Mine say "DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE,NOR SHORT CIRCUIT" missing "OF" and no space after the comma.


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## jirik_cz (Mar 18, 2011)

My old white eneloops says this:


VSOP333 said:


> "DO NOT DISPOSE OF IN FIRE, NOR SHORT CIRCUIT".


 
My new 100% genuine color eneloops and XX eneloops says this:


VSOP333 said:


> "DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE,NOR SHORT CIRCUIT"



They all have squarish + niple with small vent holes on sides.


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## Russel (Mar 18, 2011)

VSOP333 said:


> [...]Also, ALL Eneloops say "DO NOT DISPOSE OF IN FIRE, NOR SHORT CIRCUIT". Do yours say that?
> 
> Mine say "DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE,NOR SHORT CIRCUIT" missing "OF" and no space after the comma.


 
All of the Eneloop AA cells that I checked say “DO NOT DISPOSE OF IN FIRE, NOR SHORT CIRUIT” except for the latest batch, the new 1500 cycle cells with the crown on them. The cell on the top in the photograph is the new one.







The older cells that I have have some interesting differences. Notice how the positive and negative symbols are elongated on cell #18.






Also, the white surface on the new Eneloop (at the top) has a smoother look to it.






Here is the code date of the new Eneloop cell in these photographs.






Again the new cell is at the top of the photograph.






It appears that the new Eneloop 1500 cycle cells don't have a vent at the positive terminal.
(New Eneloop is on the left)






A closer photograph that allows you to see some of the differences in the white covering.






These three cells are all genuine Eneloop cells. I purchased them from a reliable source and have confirmed their good performance.


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## Mikl1984 (Mar 18, 2011)

I have colored new HR-3UTGA Eneloops (1500 cycles) with vents and squarish form
Produced 10 02 (tone for Europe) and 10 08 (Costco bundle for US)


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## Russel (Mar 18, 2011)

VSOP333 said:


> Russel, I've scoured the web to find someone with the same Eneloop packaging! [...]



Here is one with the same packageing.


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## ecrbattery (Mar 18, 2011)

I have not seen eneloop without the 4 vents on the positive terminal. 

Russel, where exactly did you got your from? And what discharge capacity you got from them?

Here is a photo of the positive terminal of the eneloop I got:

From left to right:
White HR-3UTGA Eneloop (1500 cycles) date code "10-09 E4" imported from Europe
Light Blue HR-3UTGA Eneloop #7 (1500 cycles) date code "10-07 TY" from Costco
White HR-3UTG (1000 cycles) date code "08-08 I2" from Thomas Dist. 2 years ago






Before the CPF crash of 2011, there was a nice thread with a lot of photos of eneloop... I can't seem to find it anymore


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## Russel (Mar 19, 2011)

ecrbattery said:


> [...]Russel, where exactly did you got your from? And what discharge capacity you got from them?[...]


 
I usually purchase Eneloops from Thomas Distributing, I've always had good service and pricing from them. This time the overall price was lower from Amazon due to shipping charges, but the cells were shipped from Thomas Distributing with a free battery cases marked Thomas-Distributing. In addition to the inital discharge and break-in capacity, I've load tested several and they held up well, as Eneloops do.


```
1st      break
     dis-     in 
     charge   capacity
 
1    1445     2004
2    1458     2011
3    1450     1997
4    1448     2005
5    1457     1990
6    1463     2010
7    1453     1999
8    1451     2007
9    1442     2021
10   1452     2019
11   1445     2023
12   1445     1987
13   1458     2005
14   1468     2034
15   1465     2000
16   1459     2007
```
 
[Edit]
The discharge was performed with a MH-C9000 set to 400mA.
The break-in was also performed with a C9000 set to 2000mAh capacity.
[End edit]


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## Mikl1984 (Mar 19, 2011)

It seems to me Sanyo change cell design from 2010 fall


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## Sugarboy (Mar 28, 2011)

99.99999% the first/top one is a fake.


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## Russel (Mar 29, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> 99.99999% the first/top one is a fake.


 
Why do you say that?

The performance is par for Eneloops. The sixteen cells that I purchased averaged 2007mAh in capacity after break-in on a MH-C9000 (see post #27) with a standard deviation of 12.3mAh and they came in Sanyo packaging (see post #9) 

If that is fake, it's good enough for me!


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## BREAM (Mar 29, 2011)

I don't believe they are fakes. I have the same manufactured dec 2010. They are the new eneloops.
But I have contacted Sanyo and will get confirmation.


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## beerwax (Mar 29, 2011)

BREAM said:


> I don't believe they are fakes. I have the same manufactured dec 2010. They are the new eneloops.



for clarity - you also have eneloop aa without vents ?


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## BREAM (Mar 29, 2011)

Yes but I have emailed sanyo for confirmation and will post the results here.


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## teacher (Mar 29, 2011)

I have a question about the Eneloop date code.
Is the first number the year and the second number the month?

For instance, for a battery with a code of: "*10-07 TY*". 

Would the "*10*" be the *year*[2010] and the "*07*" be the *month*[July} and the "*TY*" a *lot number ?*

Thanks in advance? :thumbsup:


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## Sugarboy (Mar 29, 2011)

without "of", it would be gramatically incorrect. i can recall those fake 1st gen Eneloops with certain intentional spelling errors. no evidence Sanyo has changed the design of the new 2nd gen Eneloop. the vents are always there as seen in Sanyo's official product shots. my guess underneath it is a generic made in China 2100 mah LSD.

where did u buy it?

even the packaging is suspicious enough. you know even the counterfeit hologram can be faked. did Sanyo even ever introduce the 2nd gen in your country?:devil:


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## Sugarboy (Mar 29, 2011)

theres even a higher incentive to make fake limited edition tones considering the higher selling price. I can imagine it will only cost them less than us$10 to make those fakes with genuine looking fancy packaging.

if it is not exactly the same as those really 100% genuine, e.g. those bought from Sanyo's authorized resellers, chances are yours are only those high imitation fakes currently flooding China's eBay equivalent


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## Russel (Mar 29, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> without "of", it would be gramatically incorrect. i can recall those fake 1st gen Eneloops with certain intentional spelling errors.


 
Yes, "Do not dispose of in fire, nor short circuit" does sound better. I like the label on my Maha charger that states: "READ MANAUL FULLY BEFORE OPERATING."



Sugarboy said:


> no evidence Sanyo has changed the design of the new 2nd gen Eneloop. the vents are always there as seen in Sanyo's official product shots. my guess underneath it is a generic made in China 2100 mah LSD.


 

This IS evidence:













Sugarboy said:


> where did u buy it?


 

It's in post #27 of this thread. 



Sugarboy said:


> even the packaging is suspicious enough. you know even the counterfeit hologram can be faked.


 

What is suspicious about this packaging?








Sugarboy said:


> did Sanyo even ever introduce the 2nd gen in your country?:devil:


 

Yes.


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## Sugarboy (Mar 29, 2011)

quoting ur own pics proves nothing. would be interested to hear Sanyo's official reply.

the packaging also cannot be be matched to those official product shots as on Sanyo's USA website & I am not convinced Sanyo will make special retail packaging for lesser known seller.


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## Russel (Mar 29, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> [...]if it is not exactly the same as those really 100% genuine, e.g. those bought from Sanyo's authorized resellers, chances are yours are only those high imitation fakes currently flooding China's eBay equivalent


 
The Eneloop 1500 cycle cells I received were shipped from Thomas-Distributing, complete with free Thomas-Distributing labeled AA cell cases.










Sugarboy said:


> quoting ur own pics proves nothing. would be interested to hear Sanyo's official reply.
> 
> the packaging also cannot be be matched to those official product shots as on Sanyo's USA website & I am not convinced Sanyo will make special retail packaging for lesser known seller.


 

The photographs are evidence, not proof. The packaging was the same as other Eneloops that I've received, with some differences such as “1500 cycles.” The bubble/blister packaging had nothing to do with any retailer. The retailer provided AA cases (as photographed above) free with the packaged cells.


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## Sugarboy (Mar 29, 2011)

to point out the obvious, the new 2nd gen white Eneloop on the left in your quoted pic does have vents while yours does not, right?

I only buy from trusted resellers with its name appearing on Sanyo's printed ad


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## Russel (Mar 29, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> to point out the obvious, the new 2nd gen white Eneloop on the left in your quoted pic does have vents while yours does not, right?[...]


 
Yes, some 1500 cycle Eneloops have vents and some don't, depending upon the date of manufacture.



Sugarboy said:


> I only buy from trusted resellers with its name appearing on Sanyo's printed ad



I ordered the 1500 cycle Eneloops from Amazon.com, an authorized online Eneloop retailer (check the Sayno website) and received the cells from Thomas Distributing, an excellent retailer.


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## Sugarboy (Mar 29, 2011)

to make things clear, the new Eneloops in question are:
- those with no vents & "grammar error"..

by "design", I was referring to the vents, not the crown


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## ecrbattery (Mar 29, 2011)

teacher, that exactly how you read the date code for Eneloop.

The "of" has been drop from the label for Gen2 Eneloop so the no vents is what concern me. I also has emailed Sanyo regarding this, let see what they says.








Russel and BREAM, if you still have the packaging, can you take a photo of the back of it? The fake packaging usually have REALLY BAD grammar and spelling errors.


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## Sugarboy (Mar 29, 2011)

straight from Sanyo USA website:






i expect the packaging should be exactly the same as this render/pic if they are bought in USA recently

http://us.sanyo.com:80/Battery-Products


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## Sugarboy (Mar 29, 2011)

in this product shot, the new Eneloops clearly have vents

http://jp.sanyo.com/eneloop/lineup/eneloop01.html


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## Sugarboy (Mar 29, 2011)

http://www.sanyohk.com/images.product/product.cjont4on.enlarge.jpg


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## Burgess (Mar 29, 2011)

_


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## Sugarboy (Mar 29, 2011)

http://www.eneloop.info/products/batteries/eneloop.html

the resolution is not high enough, but i do see certain "shadows" on the top

i believe this retail packaging is for European markets


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## Sugarboy (Mar 29, 2011)

if u look really closely, the new XX also has vents on the top in this pic with bare eyes

http://www.eneloop.info/products/batteries/xx-powered-by-eneloop-technology.html


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## Sugarboy (Mar 30, 2011)

http://us.sanyo.com:80/ImageHandler.ashx?mediaID=385&mediaFormatID=15

http://us.sanyo.com:80/News/SANYO-A...-Pre-Charged-and-Ready-for-the-Holiday-Season


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## Sugarboy (Mar 30, 2011)

http://us.sanyo.com:80/Battery-Products/AA-2-Pack-with-USB-Charger


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## Russel (Mar 30, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> [...]this one is pretty much conclusive to "prove":
> 
> - All known genuine 2nd gen Eneloops (so far) do have vents based on currently available Sanyo product materials



Those photographs are evidence, not proof. Some of the photographs have cells that appear not to have vents, but dark reflections all at the same angle. Although the quality of the photographs makes the this determination inconclusive.


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## Sugarboy (Mar 30, 2011)

Russel said:


> Those photographs are evidence, not proof. Some of the photographs have cells that appear not to have vents, but dark reflections all at the same angle. Although the quality of the photographs makes the this determination inconclusive.



while some are clear enough to positively show the vents :devil::devil::devil:

i still can't find any Sanyo site matching your particular packaging too:


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## ecrbattery (Mar 30, 2011)

The first official photo of the AA 4 packs does not show any vent. 

The last photo of the usb charger is using the Gen1 Eneloop. You can tell by the ridge at the top where the C and D adapters lock into.

Sanyo XX has a different style of vent that is wider and look like an inverted "U" instead of the normal inverted "V".

Russel, take the Eneloop to the nearest Apple Store and do a side by side compare the Made in Japan Apple AA... you will be surprise. Be sure to snap a few photos with the iPad2 and upload it here 

Here is a high-res photo of the ventless Apple AA.

My theory: The OEM for Apple AA is FDK and they are now making Eneloop.

I am still waiting for official word from Sanyo to clear this up.


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## beerwax (Mar 30, 2011)

we should also consider the possibility that they are genuine sanyo with a manufacturing defect. depending on how many were made, they could end up as collectors items. even better if you have coloured ones. relax they probably made a million.

cheers.


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## jirik_cz (Mar 30, 2011)

Just received Gen2 AA eneloops from local authorized dealer, they are manufactured 12.2010 and also have *no vents*. All Gen2 eneloops previously purchased from the same dealer had vents. So I believe these are 100% genuine eneloops with new design or manufacturing error. Interesting is that Gen2 AAA eneloops manufactured 1.2011 from the same dealer have vents :thinking:

I hope that sanyo will clarify this.


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## Sugarboy (Mar 30, 2011)

jirik_cz said:


> Just received Gen2 AA eneloops from local authorized dealer, they are manufactured 12.2010 and also have *no vents*. All Gen2 eneloops previously purchased from the same dealer had vents. So I believe these are 100% genuine eneloops with new design or manufacturing error. Interesting is that Gen2 AAA eneloops manufactured 1.2011 from the same dealer have vents :thinking:
> 
> I hope that sanyo will clarify this.


 
there is also a possibility someone (maybe rogue staff) is mixing the fake ones with the real ones to earn the extra bucks (e.g. 50:50 real fake ratio) :devil::devil::devil:


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## Sugarboy (Mar 30, 2011)

ecrbattery said:


> The first official photo of the AA 4 packs does not show any vent.
> 
> The last photo of the usb charger is using the Gen1 Eneloop. You can tell by the ridge at the top where the C and D adapters lock into.
> 
> ...


 

your "photo" is obviously only a computer rendered/generated image 

how do u know the OEM for Apple's AA is FDK?






IMO, SONY Cycle Energy AA Gold Label LSD is the better deal considering they are usually 10-20% cheaper than Eneloops

they are rated 2100 mah, 1,000 cycles


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## Eismagier (Mar 30, 2011)

ecrbattery said:


> Sanyo XX has a different style of vent that is wider and look like an inverted "U" instead of the normal inverted "V".


 Gen1 Eneloop left, XX right.




(Click to enlarge)


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## Eismagier (Mar 30, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> your "photo" is obviously only a computer rendered/generated image
> 
> how do u know the OEM for Apple's AA is FDK?
> 
> ...


The 12 I tested didn't even hit 2000 on break-in. (Old thread)


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## Sugarboy (Mar 30, 2011)

Eismagier said:


> The 12 I tested didn't even hit 2000 on break-in. (Old thread)


 
consider the extra 100mah is bonus.:laughing: the actual performance should be very similar too~


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## Sugarboy (Mar 30, 2011)

for comparison, the Sanyo 2500mah super lattice alloy AA Ni-MH "orange" which i currently use in my Magic Mouse (i don't think this model has ever introduced in USA. the package claims they can hold ~70% charge after 6 months without mentioning the useful cycles):






















http://www.sanyohk.com/main/product.php?product_code=6LUFO8OY

if 6-month "LSD" is good enough for you, this one is obviously better than Sanyo XX 2500mah considering the price is roughly just halve of the Sanyo XX. i'm a cheapo 

rated capacity: 2500 mah typical, 2300 mah min


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## BREAM (Mar 30, 2011)

My packaging is different again but definitely not fake. I have also tested the batteries and they perform very well. I am still waiting for a response from sanyo. If mine are fakes I will be extremely surprised.
date is -10- 12 MH


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## DM51 (Mar 30, 2011)

Members are remninded that Rule 3 governs the maximum image size permitted in posts. Sugarboy, some of yours need resizing.


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## Sugarboy (Mar 30, 2011)

DM51 said:


> Members are remninded that Rule 3 governs the maximum image size permitted in posts. Sugarboy, some of yours need resizing.


 
noted, i've revised those posts accordingly:kiss:


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## BREAM (Mar 30, 2011)

ecrbattery said:


> teacher, that exactly how you read the date code for Eneloop.
> 
> The "of" has been drop from the label for Gen2 Eneloop so the no vents is what concern me. I also has emailed Sanyo regarding this, let see what they says.
> 
> ...



Mine has very little english on the back of it. I don't have a decent camera to photograph it. I will try and scan it tomorrow


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## Sugarboy (Mar 30, 2011)

BREAM said:


> My packaging is different again but definitely not fake. I have also tested the batteries and they perform very well. I am still waiting for a response from sanyo. If mine are fakes I will be extremely surprised.



u buy on a daily basis? :duh2::duh2::duh2:


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## BREAM (Mar 30, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> u buy on a daily basis? :duh2::duh2::duh2:



ah no. My packaging is different to others shown in this post. It would be interesting to see if anyone has eneloops manufactured in dec 2010 with vents. If these are fake they are very good. Sanyo should be able to clear this up.


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## beerwax (Mar 30, 2011)

hi sugarboy.
i followed your link to sanyo hong kong.
i see there eneloop C battery 3200mah. i was unaware of their existence. thx.


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## Eismagier (Mar 30, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> if 6-month "LSD" is good enough for you, this one is obviously better than Sanyo XX 2500mah considering the price is roughly just halve of the Sanyo XX. i'm a cheapo


 Considering that neither these SuperLattice nor the Harmolattice seem to be available outside of certain Asian countries, I don't really think those are an option for most of us.


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## Sugarboy (Mar 30, 2011)

beerwax said:


> hi sugarboy.
> i followed your link to sanyo hong kong.
> i see there eneloop C battery 3200mah. i was unaware of their existence. thx.


 
yeah they have been around for at least 1-2 years. i never tried it personally (i mostly use AA/AAA cells only) & they r super expensive ! ( i don't remember the price, but should be somewhere between HK$12X~HK$2XX per SINGLE cell)

US$1=HK$7.8


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## Russel (Mar 30, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> [...]i still can't find any Sanyo site matching your particular packaging too:



That doesn't doesn't mean they are not genuine.


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## teacher (Mar 30, 2011)

ecrbattery said:


> teacher, that exactly how you read the date code for Eneloop.


Thank you for taking time to answer and verify my question..... :thumbsup:......


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## Mikl1984 (Mar 30, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> the packaging also cannot be be matched to those official product shots as on Sanyo's USA website & I am not convinced Sanyo will make special retail packaging for lesser known seller.


Sitting in HK it's difficult to realize that US office is able to make own packages 
















Original photos you may find here


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## ecrbattery (Mar 30, 2011)

Hi Mikl1984, how does those Varta and Ansmann 2100mAh compare to the Eneloop?


Here is a close up of the Apple AA positive terminal next to Eneloop. It does not have vent, just 4 slight "dents".


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## Sugarboy (Mar 31, 2011)

Mikl1984 said:


> Sitting in HK it's difficult to realize that US office is able to make own packages
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
the packaging looks shoddy at best, doesn't really "beam" quality (Eneloop is believed to be king of LSD), the batteries are not even properly aligned to face the front, looks a lot like sth from Eastern Europe/Russia's grey markets with questionable sources. 
yes, this does not prove they are fake.


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## Sugarboy (Mar 31, 2011)

ecrbattery said:


> Hi Mikl1984, how does those Varta and Ansmann 2100mAh compare to the Eneloop?
> 
> 
> Here is a close up of the Apple AA positive terminal next to Eneloop. It does not have vent, just 4 slight "dents".


 
i think they are just as good as any new 2100mah LSD, e.g. Hybrios, Recykos, but in a shinnier, cooler wrapper

but the dents/vents itself does not mean they are now also making new Eneloops for Sanyo


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## Mikl1984 (Mar 31, 2011)

ecrbattery said:


> Hi Mikl1984, how does those Varta and Ansmann 2100mAh compare to the Eneloop?


Sanyo much better than Varta and Ansmann according my tests Discharge-curves-via-Maha-data


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## beerwax (Mar 31, 2011)

the apple terminal looks to be quite different. 

panasonic now own sanyo (if i recall correctly)(last year). do panasonic have their own battery factory ?


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## BREAM (Mar 31, 2011)

yes they do and they make a LSD called infinium


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## Sugarboy (Mar 31, 2011)

beerwax said:


> the apple terminal looks to be quite different.
> 
> panasonic now own sanyo (if i recall correctly)(last year). do panasonic have their own battery factory ?


 
technically speaking, Eneloops are even no longer made by Sanyo anymore since 2010 (the whole NIMH business (excluding car batteries) is sold to Fujitsu to meet antitrust/compliance requirements caused by Panasonic's takeover.)

iirc, Panasonic's nimh rechargeable batteries are (at least "were") actually OEM made in Yuasa facilities in China.


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## BREAM (Mar 31, 2011)

I just checked my previously purchased eneloops that arrived in "approved packaging" manufactured 10- 06. These have vents but also have exactly the same writing as the "fake ones". So the missing "of" is not indicative of them being fake. I was starting to think maybe my new ones are fake but if you go to all that trouble to produce almost identical batteries including a manufacturing date how hard would it be to put vents in the battery top. I've looked closely at both under a magnifying glass and cannot see any other difference.

I also contacted the seller who denies they are fake and said he gets them from an approved supplier. 
I still want confirmation from sanyo. Sent two messages now.


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## AIRASSAULT18B (Mar 31, 2011)

I have the same batteries with the same packaging from the same vendor as Russel. I called Sanyo & talked to a person who works in the battery dept. He stated the packaging was done by a third party & Sanyo has bought these from various sources to test & they were all genuine Eneloops. Each battery was taken apart to verify. He also said the phone & email is overloaded with people trying to contact them about this very issue. He went on to say as of 12/10 there are no longer vent holes. I told him it would save Sanyo & users time if they could put a picture & explain the new design with no vent holes on their website.


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## BREAM (Mar 31, 2011)

Mine perform as eneloops do however I have not had them long enough to test the LSD qualities. Part of the feature of eneloops are the vents to allow discharge of hydrogen? Have they changed the design?


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## Mr Happy (Mar 31, 2011)

AIRASSAULT18B said:


> He went on to say as of 12/10 there are no longer vent holes.


If so this is a major goof of the highest magnitude :shakehead

It means Sanyo have dispensed with one of the biggest recognizable trademarks in their design. Hopefully the way their phones and emails are being overloaded will help them to recognize their mistake.


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## beerwax (Apr 1, 2011)

could be a sign of new ownership/management. if they think that wouldnt matter what else wont matter. history shows us that quality can regress towards the mean in a competitive market, and that new management can be the end of a good thing. 

but all the tests indicate the quality is still there. and sanyo buying and dismantling cells indicates a good attitude.


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## Eismagier (Apr 1, 2011)

beerwax said:


> and sanyo buying and dismantling cells indicates a good attitude.


 It's a good sign that they're taking an interest. But the suggestion that some fakes are getting so good that even Sanyo has to dismantle the cells to check if they're genuine is quite worrisome.


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## Sugarboy (Apr 1, 2011)

Eismagier said:


> It's a good sign that they're taking an interest. But the suggestion that some fakes are getting so good that even Sanyo has to dismantle the cells to check if they're genuine is quite worrisome.


 
i can imagine some high quality fakes do have some sort of LSD properties
maybe they are those inferior batches (which fail to pass QC) "leaking" from certain OEM battery plants which make LSD batteries for other big names

low quality fakes are just some crap generic nimh with obvious spelling errors, wrong font, wrong colors, wrong spacing


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## lazer (Apr 1, 2011)

Two points:

*There is a new arguement on this issue on Amazon starting B. Forstner 16 pack new version.

*Russell--Have you had acchance to check how fast your cells discharge yet, and have you tried a 1 amp charge rate?


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## Russel (Apr 1, 2011)

lazer said:


> [...]*Russell--Have you had acchance to check how fast your cells discharge yet, and have you tried a 1 amp charge rate?


 


I ran all 16 new 1500 cycle Eneloop cells that I purchased through a break-in on a MH-C9000 charger with excellent results. The average measured capacity was 2007mAh. Subsequently, I've load tested them with a CBAII discharger:






[Edit] The cell was loaded at 1A for the first half of this chart. The load was removed just after 0.49 minutes to see the open circuit voltage. [End edit]

After testing the new Eneloop cells, I have never had any doubt that they are genuine.


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## Mr Happy (Apr 1, 2011)

Russel said:


> Subsequently, I've load tested them with a CBAII discharger:


What happened between 0.49 and 0.59 minutes?


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## Russel (Apr 1, 2011)

Mr Happy said:


> What happened between 0.49 and 0.59 minutes?



Sorry, I should have explained. The Eneloop was discharged at 1A for the first part of the chart, with the load removed between 0.49 and 0.59 minutes. I frequently use a pulse load to see how well a cell or battery holds voltage under load.


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## Sugarboy (Apr 1, 2011)

lazer said:


> Two points:
> 
> *There is a new arguement on this issue on Amazon starting B. Forstner 16 pack new version.
> 
> *Russell--Have you had acchance to check how fast your cells discharge yet, and have you tried a 1 amp charge rate?


 
1. *anyone* can sell on Amazon.com, just like Ebay
2. buying through Amazon.com does not necessarily mean you are buying directly from Amazon
3. "fulfilled by Amazon" only means they are shipped from Amazon's warehouses (anyone can rent amazon's warehouse space). the stock belongs to the seller, not Amazon. Amazon does not guarantee they are genuine.


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## Sugarboy (Apr 2, 2011)

double posted.


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## VidPro (Apr 2, 2011)

*Dont say that * Not referring to any particular person or post

please do not use the words "no vents" and substitute the words "no Visable vents" until you know that there are no vents in existance.
because all these pictures, and nobody looked under the top.

---------------------
that top white ring around the cell item, has a teeney bit of space between it and the top of the cell, so untill you LOOK under the thing, you cannot be 100% positive that there are not vent holes hiding under or behind that top white ring. 
if vents were hidden though or even behind the top ring, they would still be effective for emergency gas releaces.

if the battery is 100% SEALED and does not allow in any way for escaping gasses, then it would be like the old china junk that the cell itself can Litterally EXPLODE when it builds up enough gas inside. Cause i have blow up some of them things before.
One of the large difference in the eneloop was a neopreme like vent seal that would pressure releace if need be. and Re-seal mostly after allowing gas escape.
the location of the outside holes could change and it wouldnt change that aspect of it. (minus what Mr happy said about it being a "trademark" of the cell)
if they decided against using a "soft" releace altogether , then it is certannly "different"
but it could still have a "hard" releace, a safety soft spot that blows open when needed.

I know someone who cannot SEE thier vents, can probably confirm if there are any "vents" or releace points by dissasembly, or by severe overcharging and see if it just farts or blows across the room.

even some cheap china junk now has some sort of safety releace weakness or releace capability now. so somebody pumping these things out for sanyo might have altered the design, but i cant percieve that they would remove the safety itself.

even back almost 15 years ago, cadmium type Ni_Cd sanyo cells had very small barely visable releace areas, it hissed while the china cell exploded.
i have also seen a releace of gas and electrolyte occur right behind that top ring on other items, because there were small hidden pinholes. with those cells we knew something went wrong because of the discoloration on that ring from electrolyte, which was cardboard type back then.

Reverse that, and a cheaply made cell, could cut out some Faux useless vent looking things on a nipple, and have a totally sealed battery underneath it, leave it to the cloners to artistically clone the appearance and leave out the most important parts


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## Russel (Apr 2, 2011)

VidPro said:


> *Dont say that * Not referring to any particular person or post
> 
> please do not use the words "no vents" and substitute the words "no Visable vents" until you know that there are no vents in exisitance.
> because all these pictures, and nobody looked under the top.[...]


 
Good point.

Another alternative would be to say _no vent at the positive terminal_.


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## Sugarboy (Apr 3, 2011)

i've just personally checked with several Sanyo authorzied (& Sugarboy-approved ) resellers here in Hong Kong with *real brick and mortar* stores, here are my findings:

- All those 2nd Gen AA Eneloops bundled with Eneloop chargers do have "visually observable vents";
- Most 2nd Gen AA Eneloops do have "vents" at the positive terminal, but apparently there is also another version selling at one particular battery specialty chain (which is also 100% genuine) with NO observable "vent holes". I cannot find any manufacture date code without opening the packaging;
- "OF" is dropped from all known 2nd Gen Eneloops for some strange reason

the packaging i'm talking about is (with anti-counterfeit hologram unique to Hong Kong):


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## Sugarboy (Apr 3, 2011)

.....


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## Sugarboy (Apr 3, 2011)

& also snapped up a pack of Sanyo XX 2500mAh 


























-Rated capacity is 2500mAh typical, 2400mAH minimum, rechargeable up to 500 times 

-Date code is: *11- 02R2* (Feb 2011, revision 2?)

- Made in Japan

- - -

*SANYO 2500MAH ORANGE* VS* SANYO XX 2500MAH*

2500 mAh typical VS 2500 mAH typical
2300 mAh minimum VS 2400 mAh minimum
Unspecified cycles (probably 100-200 cycles) VS up to 500 cycles
~70% charge after 6 months VS 75% charge after 12 months


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## beerwax (Apr 3, 2011)

thanks sugarboy. hong kong is becoming the centre of the world.


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## Sugarboy (Apr 3, 2011)

beerwax said:


> thanks sugarboy. hong kong is becoming the centre of the world.


 
We should lure Sanyo to make batteries here  (GP=Gold Peak, the maker of Recyko, is a Hong Kong company, though I don't like it for some reasons)
It's the laissez-faire free trade policy & 0% sales tax that make everything possible


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## beerwax (Apr 3, 2011)

and being the gateway to china. 

i see 'new' 2700 sanyo nimh aa in a green wrapper appearing on fleabay. being sold from korea. HR3UG. cant find any other info.


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## Sugarboy (Apr 3, 2011)

beerwax said:


> and being the gateway to china.
> 
> i see 'new' 2700 sanyo nimh aa in a green wrapper appearing on fleabay. being sold from korea. HR3UG. cant find any other info.



i can't seem to find it on "fleabay"? my guess is what you are referring to is: *Sanyo Twicell *







http://en.ca.sanyo.com/Industrial-Batteries/Twicell-Ni-MH

these batteries are intended for *industrial* use (such as rechargeable power drills, screwdrivers, cordless phones, RC cars etc) and are only available at those really professional hardware stores selling the finest quality, high precision tools. afaik, they are essentially the same as their consumer counterparts but they need to pass through extra & stricter QC quality control (you can call them "the better batches"!) and should be "reliable" enough to operate under "more extreme & hostile" working environments (e.g. super humid & high temperature).

Panasonic also has a range of industrial rechargeable batteries selling here if u know where to buy~~






i don't see a reason for average consumers to buy them except for out of curiosity! (last time i checked the price is somewhat between Eneloop 2nd Gen and Sanyo XX 2500mAh)

the *consumer* version here looks like this (i still have a pair of at least 4-5 year old 2700mAh AA (still working!) hanging around & at least 8 1000mAh AAA):






they used to have a 2500mAh in the same "wrapper" as the 2700mAh and were discontinued at least 1-2 years ago & replaced by 2500mAh "orange" with improved "LSD" properties.


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## AIRASSAULT18B (Apr 4, 2011)

I emailed Thomas & this is their response.

We appreciate the opportunity to clear any misunderstanding once and for all as the accusation that these are counterfeit batteries is a serious one and is very difficult to disprove particularly when the accusers have incorrect information or are unwilling to accept explanation.
Thomas Distributing has been purchasing Sanyo Eneloop batteries from the same supplier for more than three years. This particular supplier is a major dealer in Sanyo products in the USA and has an excellent reputation. Thomas has been in business for 36 years in the same location and has NEVER sold counterfeit batteries of ANY brand.
Packaging on the Eneloops varies greatly and is no true indicator of whether or not the batteries are genuine. The best indicators to look for are on the batteries themselves. Each genuine Sanyo Eneloop will bear the crown symbol and the number HR-3UTGA. New version Eneloops have a round positive terminal, a larger negative terminal, and vent holes UNDER the film. Finally, Thomas Distributing handles all warranty issues in house, and these batteries have a full one year warranty so there is ample opportunity to be certain that the batteris you receive perform as expected.
While there may be unscrupulous vendors who sell counterfeit Eneloops, the charge should not be made lightly. It would be wise to consider how important a business's reputation is as well as what serious consequences a false accusation can have and how unlikely it would be that we would throw away a 36 year reputation for honesty and integrity just to make a quick dime on a few fake batteries. We are truly grateful for the opportunity to address these issues and hope that this answers any concerns you may have.


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## Russel (Apr 4, 2011)

As I said before, judging by my personal experience with Thomas Distributing, they are an excellent retailer. I find that it is alway a pleasure to do buisness with them.

It looks like we should refer to the new Eneloops as _*the ones with hidden vents*_.


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## BREAM (Apr 5, 2011)

I didn't think they were fake as they perform as eneloops should and look like eneloops- Apart from the hidden vents. I am still waiting to hear from Sanyo. They need to update their website if they have changed the design. Now to rip the top of my eneloops and check for hidden vents


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## BREAM (Apr 5, 2011)

Yes They do have hidden vents. Carefully peel back the white material. 4 large vents!


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## ecrbattery (Apr 5, 2011)

BREAM , thank you for sacrificing your battery to get to the bottom of this.

Although I remain skeptical about these new "hidden vents" Eneloop until I see more performance numbers. So far, only Russel has post the capacity for 16 cells.

If Thomas Distributing has full confidence in these new Eneloop cells, they would have no problem sending a pack to someone like Battery Guy to do a test on his Maccor 4300 system. Once the result is posted in The-AA-NiMH-Performance-Test-Thread, all doubt will be gone.


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## BREAM (Apr 5, 2011)

My sacrificed battery should still be usable. The vents are at the bottom of the positive terminal on the top of the battery. I will run some more tests on my maha. I did also notice the negative terminal is slightly larger than my other eneloops. I still prefer the look of the older eneloops and I'm not sure why the design was changed.


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## BREAM (Apr 5, 2011)

poor photo but you can see the vents


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## beerwax (Apr 5, 2011)

theres going to be a reason. its unlikely it was not a conscious decision.


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## damn_hammer (Apr 5, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> & also snapped up a pack of Sanyo XX 2500mAh
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hook us up with a group buy sugarboy. Paid 25 USD to get 4 Sanyo XX's shipped from HK to US. Arrived last night, straight to break-in on the Maha. Still going when I looked earlier this morning.


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## lazer (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks Russel, a superb response. I'm afraid I was unclear though, as I meant-- have you had your cells long enough to check the self discharge specs? After all, it is the lsd characteristics that really determine the validity of a new design.


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## lazer (Apr 5, 2011)

Sugarboy

With your excellent connections maybe you have heard if eneloops are still being produced and/or shipped? As far as I can tell they are made in Takasaki(maybe not?) which is 120 miles from Fukushima but the whole country seems affected in some way.


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## Russel (Apr 5, 2011)

lazer said:


> Thanks Russel, a superb response. I'm afraid I was unclear though, as I meant-- have you had your cells long enough to check the self discharge specs? After all, it is the lsd characteristics that really determine the validity of a new design.


 

I really haven't had the cells long enough to test the self discharge specifications, that would take 6 months to a year. I can tell you that they don't self discharge in a matter of days like standard (non-LSD) cells. I expect that they will be the same as the older 1000 cycle Eneloops that I have.


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## Flashaholic_71 (Apr 6, 2011)

Sugarboy said:


> the packaging looks shoddy at best, doesn't really "beam" quality (Eneloop is believed to be king of LSD), the batteries are not even properly aligned to face the front, looks a lot like sth from Eastern Europe/Russia's grey markets with questionable sources.
> yes, this does not prove they are fake.


 
Lol God Bless America


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## bbf (Apr 8, 2011)

ecrbattery said:


> If Thomas Distributing has full confidence in these new Eneloop cells, they would have no problem sending a pack to someone like Battery Guy to do a test on his Maccor 4300 system. Once the result is posted in The-AA-NiMH-Performance-Test-Thread, all doubt will be gone.


 
Definitely, as long as *you're* willing to pay for the batteries and send them to Battery Guy yourself. TD shouldn't have to do anything to *prove* to *you* that they're not selling fakes. A lot of people here on the forum have purchased batteries and battery accessories from TD, me included, and have had no problems with their products being "fakes".

Generally the party doing to accusations have to shoulder the burden of proving the "guilt" of the accused party. After all, TD is located in the US, and here "innocent till proven guilty" is generally how things work. Are you willing to put *your* money where your mouth is, and fund some tests?  If not, it would nice if you could stop perpetuating unsubstantiated rumours and stop accusing a company of selling counterfeit goods.


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## WildChild (Apr 14, 2011)

ecrbattery said:


> Hi Mikl1984, how does those Varta and Ansmann 2100mAh compare to the Eneloop?
> 
> 
> Here is a close up of the Apple AA positive terminal next to Eneloop. It does not have vent, just 4 slight "dents".


 
I just purchased the USB charger kit bundled with 1500 cycles Eneloop. 

Date code: 10-12U3

Here are a few pictures:


























Unsurprisingly to me, they have the same dents as the Apple made in Japan NiMH batteries on the positive terminal!


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## Eismagier (Apr 16, 2011)

I just received some new Eneloops from "Akku-Onlinehandel" (via Amazon.de). The AAs are dated 10-12 and, like the images posted above, do not have visible vents. The AAAs are dated 10-11 and still have visible vents.


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## cliveming (Apr 25, 2011)

I have just get my Eneloop Tones 8 cell in 1 pack, it does not have vent on top of the + positive, Manu date, 2011-01, and it has the embross date code, 11-01RS


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## rookiedaddy (Oct 13, 2011)

Finally! Got my Eneloop "bling-bling" today...


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## Burgess (Oct 13, 2011)

They certainly are BEAUTIFUL !


Hope Sanyo *also* does this with the Brand-New, Just-Announced *1800x* Eneloops, also !


:thumbsup:
_


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## shadowjk (Oct 13, 2011)

oooh, shiny. I was holding off, thinking I have enough batteries as is.. but they are just so pretty...


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 14, 2011)

You should put party hats on them, and showcase on New Years Eve.


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## march.brown (Oct 14, 2011)

shadowjk said:


> oooh, shiny. I was holding off, thinking I have enough batteries as is.. but they are just so pretty...


Do they make the LEDs change colour ? ... Do they cost less than the normal ones ?

If not , I will stick with my normal Eneloops ... 

You shouldn't mix batteries in a torch ... You shouldn't put a blue cell in with a red one.





.


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## Jash (Oct 14, 2011)

Crap! Now I'll have to buy eight sets so I can keep my lights all colour standardized. My daughters can have the pink ones.


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