# Newbie Mini Lathe/Mill owner question



## heffay (Mar 2, 2009)

Hey all, just recently joined the addiction after lurking this forum for awhile :twothumbs [Like I really needed yet ANOTHER expensive hobby :sick2: ]

I found a pretty good deal on a used Grizzly 7x12 with the accompanying mini Mill locally and brought them home a few weeks ago. I've run a few acrylic parts needed for a dive light and other misc stuff so far and I'm having a lot of fun! (read: spending a lot of money :laughing: ) 

My question is: a couple of the knobs don't turn as smooth as I think they should, some are fine. Would it be a good idea to disassemble the machines (since they are used) and give it a good cleaning and re-lube? I'm trying to set myself off on the right foot here!


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## LLCoolBeans (Mar 2, 2009)

heffay said:


> My question is: a couple of the knobs don't turn as smooth as I think they should, some are fine. Would it be a good idea to disassemble the machines (since they are used) and give it a good cleaning and re-lube? I'm trying to set myself off on the right foot here!



Yes, disassemble clean and lube is always a good idea with a new machine or one that is new to you. See if you can find a manual, that may give you tips on the subject and will most likely have exploded parts diagrams.

Lubrication may not be the problem with your stiff knobs. Machine ways often have a tensioner device, consisting of several locking screws, these may need to be adjusted on your machines. The manual may give you advice on this. It is important to tighten all the tensioner screws with the same exact amount of force. If you have a torque wrench, that would be helpful. I don't have one, so I just try and tighten each one with the same ammount of force by feel. If you over tighten, the axis will be difficult to move, if you undertighten, axis will move freely but may not hold sufficient accuracy.


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## precisionworks (Mar 2, 2009)

Are you located anywhere near Sonny Barger?

http://www.doney.net/aroundaz/celebrity/barger_sonny.htm


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## heffay (Mar 2, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> Are you located anywhere near Sonny Barger?
> 
> http://www.doney.net/aroundaz/celebrity/barger_sonny.htm


His shop was actually in the Phoenix area, which is quite a bit south of me, but it appears to be closed now? Cave Creek (the road) is a VERY popular rd for bikers, as is the city itself.


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## heffay (Mar 2, 2009)

I have some Simple Green laying around, would that be good for cleaning? Looks like the guy from mini-lathe.com uses motor oil for lube, is this alright? I inherited some white lithium grease with the purchase of machines I could use as well. Thanks for the quick response.


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Mar 5, 2009)

Simple green might not be the best thing to use, since it gets mixed with water. I've heard kerosene and wd-40 mentioned. There's more on this in the "Looking for a Lathe..." thread.


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## mdocod (Mar 5, 2009)

I used a water-mixed de-greaser and it doesn't work so great on this type of thing. If you *do* use something like that, it's best to immediately after protect the metal with something that will displace the water. Using something that is distillate/oil/etc based already means you're never going to introduce any increased chance of corrosion. 

I don't see anything terribly wrong with using just motor oil for machine lube. I have seen recommendations to use heavy grease (like wheel bearing/axle grease), straight 20 weight non-detergent, synthetic motor oils, white lithium, etc etc etc.

To be honest, logic would dictate to me, places with 2 surfaces sliding on each-other under pressure, would be best off with grease. Why do I say this? Grease is designed to lubricate without being pressure fed to the thing that it is lubricating. Lighter oils, like motor oil, rely partially on the constant flow and pressure of that fluid to hold parts away from each-other. If a dovetail had an oil galley built in, with a constant pressure feed of oil, then that would work really nice no doubt. 

At the end of the day, I don't know that there is any right answer. All the machine resellers seem to recommend some specialty fluid that they sell, this seems to me like a ploy to sell snake oil. You're going to find a lot of people using a lot of different things with reasonable results. 

Eric


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## precisionworks (Mar 5, 2009)

It's really hard to beat The Universal Solvent (brake cleaner) for most greasy jobs. Cuts almost anything, evaporates quickly, costs little at the auto parts store. If you don't want to use a spray can, you can buy concentrated engine cleaner that is mixed with kerosene, like one of the Gunk Degreasers (also at auto parts stores):

http://www.gunk.com/degreasers.asp

Motor oils are designed to keep dirt, grit, and small particulates in suspension, which is why they contain detergents - the cylinders & bearings need constant cleaning. Most machine tool manufacturers specify some type or class of oil with no detergents & high purity. One that's most often called for is Mobil Velocite Light Spindle Oil, under $20/gallon with the 25% off sale price:

http://metalworking.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1965949

Way Oil is many times more sticky than even the heaviest motor oil & is a specific formulation to protect machine ways. The most popular is Vactra #2 (ISO VG68). Greases are rarely used for way lubrication because they attract & hold airborne grit & metal chips. Enco used to carry their own "equal" to Vactra #2, but their website isn't working for me this morning.


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## heffay (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks for the responses guys. Much appreciated :twothumbs


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## mdocod (Mar 6, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> I...[bla bla bla]...[something]...[ENCO]... but their website isn't working for me this morning.



sorry folks this is way off topic but important non-the-less...

I notice you have mentioned having trouble with their website in several threads now, and I thought that was confirmation that the site was "down" or whatever, as I have been having a lot of trouble getting it to come up as well. Usually giving me an internal server error. I often find myself browsing and filling a shopping cart with things to keep in consideration, and hope that it "saves" that, but after a few days it always seems to "expire" out the shopping cart.... This always seemed to be followed by the site not being up anymore....

The other morning, after thinking that the enco site had been down all weekend, I called them to ask when they expect it to be back up. Nice lady on the other end asked me to hold a moment, and called the web guys, they said it's up and working fine. Probably must be on my end....

Sure enough, re-started the browser, which probably flushed an invalid cookie that was causing some sort of problem, and blamo, worko.

Basically, if you are having problems with the enco site, it's very likely on your end not theirs. (well, technically, it's on their end for not cleaning up their code to prevent this.... but that aside).... Try switching browsers, restarting your browser, flushing cookies and things of this nature and see if that helps 

Eric


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## will (Mar 6, 2009)

On the topic of way oils or special oils used. Doesn't most of this get washed away when you use any type of cutting oil. I am thinking of the ways on a lathe, they will be covered in chips, which in turn are covered in cutting oil.


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## choffman (Mar 6, 2009)

I remember reading a post somewhere and the fella said he worked for exxon or moble1 or somebody, anyway he said the way oil that is sold by his company was just relabeled chain saw bar lube. He said they literally just started feeding a different colored bottle through the system and changed the labels.

FWIW

C-


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## gadget_lover (Mar 6, 2009)

The way lube I have goes on fairly thick. You are supposed to replenish it frequently. I think the instructions for my mill say to use the one shot oiler once every 4 hours. That lubes the table's ways as well as the knee.


RE: Enco...

They do store a cookie to save your session, and that cookie times out. Unfortunately, when they hit an internal error based on that cookie, they keep taking you back to that error.  That makes it look broken when it's not. You can clear JUST enco or MSC cookies if you are using firefox 3.

BTW, MSC/ENCO takes down their web site late at night for maintenance. It might be nightly... it sure seems that way.


Daniel


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## mdocod (Apr 6, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> Motor oils are designed to keep dirt, grit, and small particulates in suspension, which is why they contain detergents - the cylinders & bearings need constant cleaning. Most machine tool manufacturers specify some type or class of oil with no detergents & high purity.



I just found something I had on hand that seems to be working very well:

Amsoil 5W-30 synchromesh MTF.


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## darkzero (Apr 7, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> Motor oils are designed to keep dirt, grit, and small particulates in suspension, which is why they contain detergents - the cylinders & bearings need constant cleaning. Most machine tool manufacturers specify some type or class of oil with no detergents & high purity. One that's most often called for is Mobil Velocite Light Spindle Oil, under $20/gallon with the 25% off sale price:
> 
> http://metalworking.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1965949
> 
> Way Oil is many times more sticky than even the heaviest motor oil & is a specific formulation to protect machine ways. The most popular is Vactra #2 (ISO VG68). Greases are rarely used for way lubrication because they attract & hold airborne grit & metal chips. Enco used to carry their own "equal" to Vactra #2, but their website isn't working for me this morning.


 
I've read about the Mobil Vactra Way oil. I'm not ready to order a gallon just for my mini lathe. Any other off the shelf alternatives I can use? I've been using Mobil1 synthetic 10w-30 since it's what I always have in the garage left over from my truck. Seems a bit thin though for the job.

I also have Husqvarna Bar & Chain oil that I used on my minimotos. It's pretty thick & seems like it might work well but I read I should only use non-detergent oil?

I also have Mobil1 synthetic 75w-90 gear oil. Can I use this? It's thicker than motor oil but not as thick as the bar & chain oil.


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## wquiles (Apr 7, 2009)

Will,

I went with the one galon container of the Mobil Way Oil #2 - it works great. I got it from Enco - I just waited until they have the free shipping offers - which happens often these days 

Will


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## darkzero (Apr 7, 2009)

wquiles said:


> Will,
> 
> I went with the one galon container of the Mobil Way Oil #2 - it works great. I got it from Enco - I just waited until they have the free shipping offers - which happens often these days
> 
> Will


 
Aw man. Maybe I should stop asking questions here. :candle:
Everytime I get an answer I end up having to buy something (partly my fault for lack of control). 

Ok, ordered the Vactra #2. Free shipping code required a $25 minimum so of course I had to buy more items. 

This is worse than flashlights! I've already spent almost twice what I even paid for the lathe & I haven't even had it for that long. 

I'm enjoying it though!


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## mdocod (Apr 7, 2009)

darkzero said:


> I've read about the Mobil Vactra Way oil. I'm not ready to order a gallon just for my mini lathe. Any other off the shelf alternatives I can use? I've been using Mobil1 synthetic 10w-30 since it's what I always have in the garage left over from my truck. Seems a bit thin though for the job.
> 
> I also have Husqvarna Bar & Chain oil that I used on my minimotos. It's pretty thick & seems like it might work well but I read I should only use non-detergent oil?
> 
> I also have Mobil1 synthetic 75w-90 gear oil. Can I use this? It's thicker than motor oil but not as thick as the bar & chain oil.



I'm pretty sure bar/chain oil contains a detergency package, many people use a heavy motor oil as an alternative to bar/chain with good results. In fact, many owners manuals for chain saws will even state alternative oils, including motor oil, that can be used as effective replacements to bar/chain, which suggests to me that bar/chain oil probably does contain detergents...

You can tell if an oil contains heavy detergency pretty fast in use. Put some on a way, use it for a day, if the oil is all black after quite a bit of use, then it has detergency, if it stays clear then it's probably detergent free. 

The MTF I listed above as working nicely is formulated for "sealed" gear box system where high pressure/shear is expected between the mating surfaces of gears. It contains no detergency package and is a 100% group 4 synthetic with no viscosity modifiers so there's basically nothing to "break down" in the oil. Stuffs about $10 a qt but I run a lot of miles on it between swaps in my isuzu. 

If lower cost is important, I'm betting the non-detergent 1qt bottle at most wal-marts would work fine. I think it's made by Accel.


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Apr 7, 2009)

I picked up some Vactra 2 from my local CNC shop for a few bucks. They buy it in 50 Gal drums, and were more than happy to sell me a quart :thumbsup:


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## Mirage_Man (Apr 7, 2009)

darkzero said:


> Aw man. Maybe I should stop asking questions here. :candle:
> Everytime I get an answer I end up having to buy something (partly my fault for lack of control).
> 
> Ok, ordered the Vactra #2. Free shipping code required a $25 minimum so of course I had to buy more items.
> ...



Muwahahahaahhaa ... we've pulled another one to the dark side. :devil: 

It only gets worse my friend.


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## KC2IXE (Apr 8, 2009)

darkzero said:


> ...snip...This is worse than flashlights! I've already spent almost twice what I even paid for the lathe & I haven't even had it for that long.
> 
> I'm enjoying it though!



Glad you're enjoying it. Hint for readers - budget at least the cost of your new lathe for tooling. BTW this applies to getting a 2nd lathe too - If you're upgrading your lathe, you'll probably want to upgrade your chucks, and your tool holding and your....


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Apr 8, 2009)

> Glad you're enjoying it. Hint for readers - budget at least the cost of your new lathe for tooling. BTW this applies to getting a 2nd lathe too - If you're upgrading your lathe, you'll probably want to upgrade your chucks, and your tool holding and your....



I wish I'd listened to the people who told me that when I was buying my lathe 

I've already spent at least that much, and then some...


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## StrikerDown (Apr 8, 2009)

Tekno_Cowboy said:


> I wish I'd listened to the people who told me that when I was buying my lathe
> 
> I've already spent at least that much, and then some...



I think mills are worse! My little $1,300 mill is now over $3500.00


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## gadget_lover (Apr 8, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> I think mills are worse! My little $1,300 mill is now over $3500.00



And it's not always the tooling. I already had a lot of tooling for my micro-mill. All tool holders were morse taper. The new machine is R8 spindle.

Mill $700
Getting it home $300
New R8 holders and bigger tooling $500
DRO $650
Junk I read about on CPF that I just had to have... Priceless. No. Really Priceless. I'm still adding it up.


Daniel


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## StrikerDown (Apr 8, 2009)

gadget_lover said:


> And it's not always the tooling. I already had a lot of tooling for my micro-mill. All tool holders were morse taper. The new machine is R8 spindle.
> 
> Priceless. No. Really Priceless. I'm still adding it up.
> 
> ...



After I was through ROFL I thought, SO TRUE... Thanks Barry, Hehehe!


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## precisionworks (Apr 8, 2009)

Some machinists like to say that the machine tool is the down payment, and that tooling is the monthly mortgage payment. Which isn't bad - both your home & your machine tools will be paid off in 30 years


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