# SureFire A2 Aviator - Working Rechargable Batteries



## Kross (Jan 4, 2010)

*Definitive A2 Protected R123 Thread (no really, this time for real)*

I have finally found a rechargeable solution (without modding) for my Surefire A2 Aviator.


I spent a few days reading every thread there is on rechargeables for the a2 and really didn't get much help. Willjitsu made a post a week ago that he and I used to find rechargeable batteries that would fit in the a2 with no modification required. The *Definitive A2 Protected R123 Thread*was little to no help at all (this made me laugh) and I was surprised no one had made a thread like this before... so here it is:

*if you want to make your SF A2 rechargeable, order this, pop them in, and go. it's really that simple. *

*http://www.batteryjunction.com/6rcr123a-combo.html
*_- Combo Kit: 6 RCR123A 3.0V 750mAh LiFePO4 Rechargeable Batteries with a Smart Charger_​btw I have NO idea if these are overpowered, underpowered, or just right. But what I do know is they work. I'll post if something goes wrong, but so far they fit perfect and work great. I plan on testing run-time etc. I have 6 though (3 sets) so I should always have a set ready to go for zero downtime. 

and here's what they look like in my a2*:






*


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2010)

You didn't happen to read the bottom of the linked page by any chance? :thinking:



Battery Junction said:


> NOT COMPATIBLE WITH SUREFIRE FLASHLIGHT. DON'T USE THESE BATTERIES WITH ANY SURE FIRE FLASHLIGHTS.
> 
> *Maximum discharging rate:< 550 mA *




Just to give you an idea how much capacity primary **123a cells have here's a chart Silver Fox put together 







Now considering the A2's Xenon is rated for about 1 hours runtime on **123a primaries you'll be overdrawing those RCR123 cells almost three-fold :sick2:


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## jimmy1970 (Jan 4, 2010)

Kross said:


> *Definitive A2 Protected R123 Thread (no really, this time for real)*
> 
> I have finally found a rechargeable solution (without modding) for my Surefire A2 Aviator.
> 
> ...


 
*Not this again....*

*Do not follow this newbies advice regarding these batteries - they are not suitable for use with the A2 for various reasons + very poor runtimes out of these cells - even Battery Junction do not recommend them for Surefire lights - as per their sales page....*

*Your post made me laugh...*

*James....*


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## ampdude (Jan 5, 2010)

The IMR16340's fit perfectly in the A2 body. I'm surprised you were not able to find any information on this on the forum, I thought it was well known. I have occassionally found protected RCR's that would fit, after going through about ten of them, but the ones that would fit were usually pretty tight. IMR16340's are the way to go. They are the same size as the CR123A's.


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## maxspeeds (Jan 5, 2010)

I agree with Ampdude. Although IMR16340s are 4.2V, they fit perfectly and work fine on the A2's buck circuit. (note: The 3 peripheral LEDs may be a bit brighter.) 

I only run my A2 on IMR16340s. :twothumbs


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## UnderTheWeepingMoon (Jan 5, 2010)

I've put an A2 through a couple of charges of AW's LiFePO4 cells, which are apparently safe for high discharge rates. I haven't yet done a continuous run, so I can't say what effect the reduced capacity has on runtime. The batteries are a good fit though and I feel safer with their lower voltage.


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## WillJitsu (Jan 5, 2010)

maxspeeds said:


> I agree with Ampdude. Although IMR16340s are 4.2V, they fit perfectly and work fine on the A2's buck circuit. (note: The 3 peripheral LEDs may be a bit brighter.)
> 
> I only run my A2 on IMR16340s. :twothumbs


According to this post: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201375 it says this info:



> *A2 Aviator
> *Battery Size: 2xCR123
> Regulation Type: buck on incan, "resistored" direct drive on LEDs.
> Recommended Input Voltage Range: 4.5-6V (estimated)
> ...


So are you sure the 4.2V MR16340s would be ok with this flashlight? That seems to contradict with the posted info about using 3.0V LiFePO4 batteries.


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## leukos (Jan 5, 2010)

ampdude said:


> The IMR16340's fit perfectly in the A2 body. I'm surprised you were not able to find any information on this on the forum, I thought it was well known. I have occassionally found protected RCR's that would fit, after going through about ten of them, but the ones that would fit were usually pretty tight. IMR16340's are the way to go. They are the same size as the CR123A's.


 
+1 this is probably one of the safest options for making your A2 rechargeable. The Vf for those LEDs may shift over time, but they are inexpensive and probably are worth upgrading anyways if you ever have any problems.


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## WillJitsu (Jan 5, 2010)

leukos said:


> +1 this is probably one of the safest options for making your A2 rechargeable. The Vf for those LEDs may shift over time, but they are inexpensive and probably are worth upgrading anyways if you ever have any problems.


Do you have a link to where these batteries can be purchased along with a charger suitable for charging them without damage?


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## leukos (Jan 5, 2010)

If you want to go with LiFePO4, here's a good choice:http://www.lighthound.com/AW-LiFePO4-3-Volt-Lithium-Rechargeable-Battery_p_112.html

If you want to go with LiMN, here's a good choice: http://www.lighthound.com/AW-IMR163...LiMN-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_2626.html


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## WillJitsu (Jan 5, 2010)

leukos said:


> If you want to go with LiFePO4, here's a good choice:http://www.lighthound.com/AW-LiFePO4-3-Volt-Lithium-Rechargeable-Battery_p_112.html
> 
> If you want to go with LiMN, here's a good choice: http://www.lighthound.com/AW-IMR163...LiMN-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_2626.html


On that first link it says at the bottom:

DO NOT USE TWO OF THESE WITH INCANDESCENT LAMPS

Are you sure they're OK for the Surefire A2 Aviator since it has an incandescent bulb?


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## computernut (Jan 5, 2010)

The IMR1634's look interesting. What would the runtime be with a stock MA02 and with a LF HO-A2?


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## leukos (Jan 5, 2010)

WillJitsu said:


> On that first link it says at the bottom:
> 
> DO NOT USE TWO OF THESE WITH INCANDESCENT LAMPS
> 
> Are you sure they're OK for the Surefire A2 Aviator since it has an incandescent bulb?


 
That warning is intended for using two of these "3 volt batteries" with a 6 volt lamp, such as the P60. Folks have done this without realizing they are feeding 7.4 volts to that lamp initially and then realize it after the lamp flashes. The A2 is bucking that voltage down to around 4.5v, so there is no worry there.


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## maxspeeds (Jan 6, 2010)

WillJitsu said:


> According to this post: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201375 it says this info:
> 
> So are you sure the 4.2V MR16340s would be ok with this flashlight? That seems to contradict with the posted info about using 3.0V LiFePO4 batteries.



I am completely sure. I've run my A2 through atleast 10 cycles with these 4.2V batteries. Nothing has happened to my LEDs or Incan lamp. You may want to also purchase the batteries direct from the manufacturer. AW has a posting in the marketplace: 
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=191277
(He's great to deal with. It will come direct from China, but he has very quick shipping)


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 6, 2010)

WillJitsu said:


> On that first link it says at the bottom:
> 
> DO NOT USE TWO OF THESE WITH INCANDESCENT LAMPS
> 
> Are you sure they're OK for the Surefire A2 Aviator since it has an incandescent bulb?


Yes, because it's regulated. I've been using AW RCR123 Li-ion for years in my A2.


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## ampdude (Jan 7, 2010)

Yes, for those that don't realize, the A2 is one of the few regulated incan lights out there. It has a voltage reducing (buck) circuit that reduces the voltage of batteries down to about 4.5V to run the 4.5V incan lamp assembly. The normal batteries are the 3V lithium primaries, but the buck circuit in the A2 is capable of handling the extra voltage of the 4.2V lithium rechargeable batteries. The only difference you'll notice between primaries and IMR16340's is that the LED's will run a little brighter with the IMR's or other 4.2V lithium rechargeables.

The runtime with the red label IMR16340's will be better than with the black label RCR123A's (if you can find any that fit) because the current draw of the stock lamp is about 1.3A and the HO-A2 is around 1.5 or 1.6A (If I remember correctly).


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## Petersen (Jan 7, 2010)

ampdude said:


> Yes, for those that don't realize, the A2 is one of the few regulated incan lights out there. It has a voltage reducing (buck) circuit that reduces the voltage of batteries down to about 4.5V to run the 4.5V incan lamp assembly. The normal batteries are the 3V lithium primaries, but the buck circuit in the A2 is capable of handling the extra voltage of the 4.2V lithium rechargeable batteries. The only difference you'll notice between primaries and IMR16340's is that the LED's will run a little brighter with the IMR's or other 4.2V lithium rechargeables.
> 
> The runtime with the red label IMR16340's will be better than with the black label RCR123A's (if you can find any that fit) because the current draw of the stock lamp is about 1.3A and the HO-A2 is around 1.5 or 1.6A (If I remember correctly).


 

Are these values measured with RCR123's ?
I measure approx. 1.35-1.37A (with my el-cheapo Meter) on Primaries, which is roughly the same (considering the possible error of the amp Meter)

Have you measured the current to the leds, primary Vs. RCR?
- otherwise, I will see if I can find a 10 Ohm resistor and do it on Primaries.


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## Petersen (Jan 8, 2010)

Borrowed my Fluke177 from work...

1.35A / 20.50mA (10 Ohm resistor) on SF123A

EDIT : missed the 2 Ohm internal resistor in the Fluke, so actually 20 mA was with 12 Ohm in the tail.....


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## KiwiMark (Jan 8, 2010)

leukos said:


> If you want to go with LiFePO4, here's a good choice:http://www.lighthound.com/AW-LiFePO4-3-Volt-Lithium-Rechargeable-Battery_p_112.html
> 
> If you want to go with LiMN, here's a good choice: http://www.lighthound.com/AW-IMR163...LiMN-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_2626.html



I have gone with the LiFePO4 cells from AW in my A2. I am aware of several people claiming that the LiMN cells work well and they are having no issues, BUT: 2 x Li Primaries = 6V, 2 x LiFePO4 cells = 7.2V fresh off the charger, dropping to around 6.6V as a 'normal' voltage, 2 x LiMN = 8.4V fresh off the charger and holding above 8V for a while.

Since the incan is regulated it should be fine, but the LEDs are direct drive and I am not too sure that >8V is a good idea for LEDs designed to run from 6V. I feel safer with the LiFePO4 cells - they are a safe chemistry and can tolerate a high load. They don't give the same run time as primaries, but I have 2 sets and can always carry primaries as backup.

My A2 seems to be working pretty good on the LiFePO4 cells.


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## Patriot (Jan 8, 2010)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Yes, because it's regulated. I've been using AW RCR123 Li-ion for years in my A2.




+1


Same here.


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## ampdude (Jan 9, 2010)

Petersen said:


> Are these values measured with RCR123's ?
> I measure approx. 1.35-1.37A (with my el-cheapo Meter) on Primaries, which is roughly the same (considering the possible error of the amp Meter)
> 
> Have you measured the current to the leds, primary Vs. RCR?
> - otherwise, I will see if I can find a 10 Ohm resistor and do it on Primaries.



No, I was referring to the primaries also. With the RCR type batteries, the current draw will be less, because their voltage is greater. Probably will be closer to an amp on IMR/RCR's with the stock lamp.


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## GarageBoy (Jan 9, 2010)

What's the upper limit on the converter, anyways?


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## leukos (Jan 10, 2010)

GarageBoy said:


> What's the upper limit on the converter, anyways?


 
I think I remember 9V for some reason.


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## ampdude (Jan 11, 2010)

9 volts as the upper limit also sounds correct to me. But I have never tested the light with one of the mythical A2 extenders, so I could no say for sure!

I am curious too of the upper limit, just for knowledge sake, but there is really no practical reason to run the light at over 9V that I can think of.


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## Petersen (Jan 16, 2010)

Just did a new test with a high prec. 10 Ohm resistor, and the Meter in mV range:
(mine is the Red version)
SF123A : 940mV => 94mA
AW 16340 (3,92V) : 1360mV => 136mA

So an overdrive of the LED's of approx. 44%

- For those of you, who has been doing this for years, no problems with the LED's?


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## Illum (Jan 16, 2010)

Petersen said:


> Just did a new test with a high prec. 10 Ohm resistor, and the Meter in mV range:
> (mine is the Red version)
> SF123A : 940mV => 94mA
> AW 16340 (3,92V) : 1360mV => 136mA
> ...



31ma per LED is already on the margin of overdrive...what could 34ma hurt


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## Energie (Jan 16, 2010)

Old A2 thread: Link


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## ampdude (Jan 16, 2010)

Petersen said:


> Just did a new test with a high prec. 10 Ohm resistor, and the Meter in mV range:
> (mine is the Red version)
> SF123A : 940mV => 94mA
> AW 16340 (3,92V) : 1360mV => 136mA
> ...



I never encountered any problems, and mine had those cheap cold white Nichia's.


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## Marlinaholic (Jan 25, 2010)

So to help a dummy out here (me), to be safe and not overdrive your LED's, one should stick with primaries or 3.0 volt rechargeables right (yes I know runtime will suck with rechargeables compared to primaries but that isn't my concern). 3.7V rechargeables will work but will overdrive the LEDs to a significant degree, though some people have gotten away doing that for a long time apparently. I always used primaries or 3.0 volt rechargeables in my A2 and figured I wasn't abusing it that way. Seems like there is a lot of conflicting opinions on this issue.


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## hyperloop (Jan 27, 2010)

personally i just ordered an A2 myself, i think that if the LEDs are overdriven if using RCR123s @ 3.7v it would just reduce the life of the LEDs right?

i figured that even if there was a 50% loss in the LED life, it still gives me 2.85 years of continuous use of the LEDs, think i can live with that. I was more concerned with the incand bulb goin


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## [email protected] (Jan 27, 2010)

hyperloop said:


> i figured that even if there was a 50% loss in the LED life, it still gives me 2.85 years of continuous use of the LEDs, think i can live with that. I was more concerned with the incand bulb goin



Personally I was more concerned with frying the regulation circuit, after having only recently acquired this A2 I didn't want to risk damaging it irreparably


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 27, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Personally I was more concerned with frying the regulation circuit, after having only recently acquired this A2 I didn't want to risk damaging it irreparably


It can handle up to 9V. Good luck trying to fry that with a pair of li-ions.


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## ampdude (Jan 27, 2010)

Marlinaholic said:


> So to help a dummy out here (me), to be safe and not overdrive your LED's, one should stick with primaries or 3.0 volt rechargeables right (yes I know runtime will suck with rechargeables compared to primaries but that isn't my concern). 3.7V rechargeables will work but will overdrive the LEDs to a significant degree, though some people have gotten away doing that for a long time apparently. I always used primaries or 3.0 volt rechargeables in my A2 and figured I wasn't abusing it that way. Seems like there is a lot of conflicting opinions on this issue.



Not really. I haven't heard of anyone burning out one of the leds because of lithium cobalt (black cells) or IMR cells. Even if you did, it's not exactly a big loss. Can always get another led ring or solder a new led onto the old one. By the way, an led burning out can occurred on primaries too.


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## hyperloop (Jan 28, 2010)

thanks for all the useful info, i have an A2 on the way in and am going to use RCR123s in it, have a LF lamp assembly for it coming in too (just in case i fry the bulb).


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## ampdude (Jan 29, 2010)

hyperloop said:


> thanks for all the useful info, i have an A2 on the way in and am going to use RCR123s in it, have a LF lamp assembly for it coming in too (just in case i fry the bulb).



Good luck if you insist on using the RCR's. Like I mentioned in the thread, most of the protected black label RCR123s do not fit in A2 bodies. The IMR16340 cells are the way to go.


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## da.gee (Jan 29, 2010)

I have "peeled" AW RCR 123s in my A2. Snug fit, but a fit nevertheless.


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## ampdude (Jan 29, 2010)

da.gee said:


> I have "peeled" AW RCR 123s in my A2. Snug fit, but a fit nevertheless.



Yea, I peeled the silver labels on the two I found that would actually fit. But the ones that wouldn't, peeling the silver label wouldn't have helped. The ones that did fit were very snug. In my experience the later A2's seem to have a _little_ looser bodies than the earlier 4-flats models. Which is counter to the E-series, with later bodies being tighter. My guess is they probably just tightened up the specs all around. Regardless, the IMR cells will not only fit much better, but will provide longer runtime than the black label cells in this particular light since the current draw is more than 1 amp. Even more so with the Lumens Factory bulb, which is superior to the stock bulb. I had some of the special run unfrosted ones and it was dramatically better than the stock lamp assembly, there was no comparison. The few beamshots of even the frosted one vs. the stock bulb I saw on here back then didn't do it justice IMO.


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## StandardBattery (Jan 30, 2010)

Is there any question about the safety of the IMR solution when the leds are Y/G ? White leds have a different vf than the other colors especially Red, is this accounted for with a resistor on the ring?

Sometimes I think I would not mind if those purple tinted white leds would burnout, but loosing low mode would be a bummer.


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## kramer5150 (Jan 30, 2010)

StandardBattery said:


> Is there any question about the safety of the IMR solution when the leds are Y/G ? White leds have a different vf than the other colors especially Red, is this accounted for with a resistor on the ring?
> 
> Sometimes I think I would not mind if those purple tinted white leds would burnout, but loosing low mode would be a bummer.



Is the red Vf higher or lower than the other colors.


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## StandardBattery (Jan 30, 2010)

My understanding it the red Vf would be about 1/2 a typical White LED.


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## kramer5150 (Jan 30, 2010)

StandardBattery said:


> My understanding it the red Vf would be about 1/2 a typical White LED.



Oh yikes.. would I be better off running mine with a 17670? I bought this light mainly for the LEDs.


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## StandardBattery (Jan 30, 2010)

kramer5150 said:


> Oh yikes.. would I be better off running mine with a 17670? I bought this light mainly for the LEDs.


 
I don't know, that's why I asked my original question, I'm hoping those that know more about the specifics of the A2 and the LEDS they used would comment. Or someone who is already using the solution with all the different LED colors. IMR is probably OK or it would have come up by now, but I just want to be sure and understand why.


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## ampdude (Jan 31, 2010)

You're not going to get a P17670 to fit without boring the body. You may luck out and get a non-protected cell to fit, but then it might not even light up the bulb, because of the voltage or lack thereof. Red led's have a lower forward voltage, but at the same time, they are often considered more robust then their "white" counter-parts. I have also run an A2 with red led's with two lithium ion cells with no negative side effects.


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## kramer5150 (Jan 31, 2010)

ampdude said:


> You're not going to get a P17670 to fit without boring the body. You may luck out and get a non-protected cell to fit, but then it might not even light up the bulb, because of the voltage or lack thereof. Red led's have a lower forward voltage, but at the same time, they are often considered more robust then their "white" counter-parts. I have also run an A2 with red led's with two lithium ion cells with no negative side effects.



OK then, I think I am OK either way (RCR123 or 17670). Yes the A2 I have incoming has been bored out.:thumbsup:


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## hyperloop (Feb 2, 2010)

I just received my Surefire A2 Aviator in the post today, the one with the white LEDs. With some trepidation, i inserted these cells into the light and cautiously pressed in, the LEDs lit up fine and i continued pressing in, the incand lamp lit up fine, no  at all.

Then i changed the lamp to the HO-A2 and fired 'er up again, no issues.

Works great!! I am beginning to see why a lot of people regard the A2 as the perfect light. Love this little thing and as it is my first higher end Surefire (i have a G2 as well) i must say i am very impressed with it.


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## ampdude (Feb 2, 2010)

kramer5150 said:


> OK then, I think I am OK either way (RCR123 or 17670). Yes the A2 I have incoming has been bored out.:thumbsup:



Let us know if it lights up the incan with the 17670, I'd be surprised if it did. I didn't know you could bore the A2, I thought the inner area of the body next to the threads was smaller than the rest of the body, unless I'm thinking of something else. It's been awhile since I had an A2.


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## leukos (Feb 3, 2010)

It won't work with a 17670. Input voltage has to be greater than 4.5V. Stick an IMR 16340 in there with a dummy CR123 and see for yourself before you waste time and money boring your A2.


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## kramer5150 (Feb 4, 2010)

Just got my bored A2, works 100% with unprotected RCR123 cells.

Not sure who modded this one, but its a pro job on a lathe... not some hack with a dremel. I could still smell the machining lube inside the light. I cleaned it out with isopropyl alcohol, dropped the 17670 in and it only dimly lit the incan. Which is what I expected and thats OK by me, since I bought it mainly for the red LEDs. The lower Vin should (in theory) be better for the red emitters and their lower Vf.

Regulated INCAN goodness... 65 Lumens OTF on a flat line!!

Happy with my purchase. Its a great light, with enough different cell options to keep me happy.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 4, 2010)

kramer5150 said:


> Just got my bored A2, works 100% with unprotected RCR123 cells.
> 
> Not sure who modded this one, but its a pro job on a lathe... not some hack with a dremel. I could still smell the machining lube inside the light. I cleaned it out with isopropyl alcohol, dropped the 17670 in and it only dimly lit the incan. Which is what I expected and thats OK by me, since I bought it mainly for the red LEDs. The lower Vin should (in theory) be better for the red emitters and their lower Vf.
> 
> ...


Actually, 75 lumens OTF. And be aware that by undervolting the incan lamp, you're greatly reducing its lifetime.

Cheers.


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## kramer5150 (Feb 4, 2010)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Actually, 75 lumens OTF. And be aware that by undervolting the incan lamp, you're greatly reducing its lifetime.
> 
> Cheers.



OK thanks for the tip.


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## ampdude (Feb 5, 2010)

That is pretty cool, thanks for sharing. Yea, running an Aviator on a P17670 is going to be kind of like running a P90 on two CR123A's. Very orange and hard on the bulb.

I am surprised it did light up the incan, I thought the _voltage regulator_ on the A2 Aviator cut out well above the P17670's peak voltage.

Like OF said, it's not good for the bulb, but will work in a pinch in an emergency.

Nice light! And thanks again for sharing.


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## [email protected] (Feb 23, 2010)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> be aware that by undervolting the incan lamp, you're greatly reducing its lifetime.



Interesting... I would've imagined under volting the bulb had the opposite effect to over volting, case-in-point my Scorpion Xenon powered off an AW17670 has lasted a significantly long time, are you making that a general assessment or merely relative to A2 incandescent bulbs? :thinking:


Wikipedia - This means that a 5% reduction in operating voltage will more than double the life of the bulb, at the expense of reducing its light output by about 20%


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## ampdude (Feb 24, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Interesting... I would've imagined under volting the bulb had the opposite effect to over volting, case-in-point my Scorpion Xenon powered off an AW17670 has lasted a significantly long time, are you making that a general assessment or merely relative to A2 incandescent bulbs? :thinking:
> 
> 
> Wikipedia - This means that a 5% reduction in operating voltage will more than double the life of the bulb, at the expense of reducing its light output by about 20%



The problem with undervolting the bulb is that it doesn't get as hot. And if it doesn't get as hot the xenon-halogen cycle will not properly take place, leading to a decrease in the lamp's life and possible early carbon buildup on the inside of the bulb lowering the output.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 24, 2010)

ampdude said:


> The problem with undervolting the bulb is that it doesn't get as hot. And if it doesn't get as hot the xenon-halogen cycle will not properly take place, leading to a decrease in the lamp's life and possible early carbon buildup on the inside of the bulb lowering the output.


Exactly. 

However, Streamlight lamps-- unlike SureFire lamp assemblies -- are not Halogen lamps, they are pure Xenon-filled lamps.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 24, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Interesting... I would've imagined under volting the bulb had the opposite effect to over volting, case-in-point my Scorpion Xenon powered off an AW17670 has lasted a significantly long time, are you making that a general assessment or merely relative to A2 incandescent bulbs? :thinking:
> 
> 
> Wikipedia - This means that a 5% reduction in operating voltage will more than double the life of the bulb, at the expense of reducing its light output by about 20%


That may be true with colder filament incandescent bulbs (such as vaccum lamps), Halogen lamps are a whole different animal... And yes, I was talking about SureFire lamp assemblies, Streamlight lamps are different.


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## computernut (Apr 19, 2010)

I was looking to buy some AW IMR16340's for my A2's and was wondering what runtimes people are seeing running MA02's, HO-A2's, and Strions.


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## hyperloop (Apr 19, 2010)

ampdude said:


> Good luck if you insist on using the RCR's. Like I mentioned in the thread, most of the protected black label RCR123s do not fit in A2 bodies. The IMR16340 cells are the way to go.



am using soshine unprotected RCR123s, slip in and out of the A2 with no problems whatsoever, have run the A2 through a few sets of cells already, of course being careful not to overdischarge the cells. 

After a few weeks use and paranoid measuring of voltages, i got a rough sense of when it is time to switch cells and recharge.


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## bullettproof (Apr 24, 2010)

I have a New A2 Incan Red Led model I just got it yesterday and I just bought another set of Black AW RCR123's from the Hound and received them 2 days ago. Everything fits fine and works fine.


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## ampdude (Apr 25, 2010)

Yea unprotected should fit fine.

Bulletproof, yea I think you kind of lucked out there, most of the time protected RCR's will not fit in the A2, unless AW has recently changed the dimensions of the cells. Also, your runtime will be lower than with the IMRs, since the lamp draws about 1.3 amps if I remember correctly.


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## R.VanWinkle (May 17, 2010)

I would agree with earlier posters that the late-production A2s have a larger ID. Mine easily fits AW's black labels, red IMR16340s, and blue LiFePO4s. I am assuming that mine is late-production as I won it from an SF rep in a raffle at a pistol match shortly before SF announced they were discontinued. This is by no means a hit on my local SF rep as this is an outstanding little light; previously I probably never would have spent the money on one, but now I have to fight hard to keep from trying for a different color on the MarketPlace or evil bay.

Although all of the above cells fit I have sissied out from trying anything but the LiFePO4s. Keep hoping that Koala will come out with them Onion Rings so I have a fallback. I have a little experience unsoldering SMT resitors in modding ham radio equipment, but never look forward to soldering little bitty things back on. Guess it would keep me sober for most of a Saturday morning, though.

Runtime with the LiFePO4s with either the stock MA02 or LF HO-A2 has been 20-22 minutes before noticeable dimming. The good thing is that at this point one has not damaged the battery, and that in an emergency there would still be a good bit of time on the LEDs. (My cells are a bit mis-matched; pulling them at the point of noticeable incan dimming I read @ 2.5v on one cell, @ 2.7 on the other. This was the same for three different continuous runs. Same readings regardless of which one is at the hot end.) Bad news is - only 20-22 minutes.

20 minutes does make for a good household utility light as long as you keep track of the time. My A2 has found a home on the nightstand (ok, along with several others that are a good bit brighter and tactical'er) and has been quite useful for countless chores. In one respect I think I would have saved money skipping the LiFePO4s and just running the A2 on partially depleted primaries rotated from my duty lights. But on the other hand, I recently went on a hunting trip and loaded the A2 up with primaries, took the LiFePO4s along as well. Just avoided using it until I put the rechargeables in; swapped them in and with limited incan use and a whole buncha LED use it served quite well over a four day period. So it also has a permanent place in my hunting kit. 

Better sign off here before I wander further off topic.

Hasta,

RVW


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## cland72 (Oct 13, 2011)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Yes, because it's regulated. I've been using AW RCR123 Li-ion for years in my A2.



Because of this post, I just blew my Lumens Factory HO-A2 bulb.

edit: the filament in the bulb looks fine, could it be the regulator in the A2 that was fried? My LED's still work, and on the hard press that would usually fire the incandescent bulb, the LED's seem to get slightly brighter.

I'd appreciate some feedback/advice before I got buy a new HO-A2 from LightHound.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Oct 13, 2011)

cland72 said:


> Because of this post, I just blew my Lumens Factory HO-A2 bulb.
> 
> edit: the filament in the bulb looks fine, could it be the regulator in the A2 that was fried? My LED's still work, and on the hard press that would usually fire the incandescent bulb, the LED's seem to get slightly brighter.
> 
> I'd appreciate some feedback/advice before I got buy a new HO-A2 from LightHound.



Don't blame me, buddy. Your bulb died because it was a bad bulb that would have died on CR123s as well. The A2s regulator do not overdrive the incan lamp, it alway send the correct voltage/current to the lamp assembly, no matter how do you feed it... I have been using my A2s on RCR123 cells for 4+ years with no issues. You had a dud.

Everybody in this thread so far are happily running their A2s on rechargeables-- except you. Why do you think that is?


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## cland72 (Oct 13, 2011)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Don't blame me, buddy. Your bulb died because it was a bad bulb that would have died on CR123s as well. The A2s regulator do not overdrive the incan lamp, it alway send the correct voltage/current to the lamp assembly, no matter how do you feed it... I have been using my A2s on RCR123 cells for 4+ years with no issues. You had a dud.
> 
> Everybody in this thread so far are happily running their A2s on rechargeables-- except you. Why do you think that is?



I'm sorry, I wasn't blaming you. Just that your post led me to use the RCR123's, and after about 60 seconds my light blinked a couple of times, I turned it off, and then the incan wouldn't turn back on.

I wish I knew why I was the only one with problems. Bad luck? I've gone back to my CR123 primaries and nothing so far. I can't figure out why the bulb would've just gone out after less than 5 minutes of use. Guess I'll get a Surefire bulb this time. I would hope it would be better quality than the LF.


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## calipsoii (Oct 13, 2011)

It was almost undoubtedly the bulb, which is way better then it being the regulator. The bulbs are funny - I once had 2 Strion bulbs blow almost back to back (literally 20 seconds of runtime on each) and then the next bulb has run happily for 20+ hours. 

The joys of incandescents...


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 15, 2011)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Everybody in this thread so far are happily running their A2s on rechargeables-- except you. Why do you think that is?



Easy there. The guy was just frustrated.

Bill


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## Chrontius (Oct 15, 2011)

I had my first IMR-E2 go out with under 90 seconds of burn time. Sometimes these things are just defective.

I've been using the OP's LiFe batteries for the last year or two in my Aviator without issue. May be hard on the batteries? Probably, but I can always pick up some AW Blue Label cells when they quit working, and anyway the LED ring sees a lot more use than the incan "main gun" on my Aviator. Since I'm still on the waiting list for an Onion Ring, I'm not willing to risk the LEDs entirely just yet.


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## cland72 (Oct 19, 2011)

I just got a new to me MA02 surefire bulb and the light is working again. 

My apologies Outdoor Fanatic; I was frustrated, just like Bullzeyebill indicated, and was just peeved that I thought the RCR's were what blew my bulb. I guess the Chinese LF still needs quality control improvement...

That said, I'm really reluctant to try the RCR's on the SF bulb -- what do you guys recommend? Should I just play it safe and stick to primaries only?


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## 1pt21 (Oct 20, 2011)

cland72 said:


> That said, I'm really reluctant to try the RCR's on the SF bulb -- what do you guys recommend? Should I just play it safe and stick to primaries only?



My understanding is that the A2 incan bulb is regulated, meaning that either primaries or RCR, the main beam still gets delivered the same voltage. I say go for it, many of our fellow CPF'ers have been doing so for ages without problems (including myself). Supposedly RCR's will push the factory LED's a little harder, I haven't experienced any problems in that respect. And i don't care, I like breaking things.. Gives me a reason to upgrade!


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 21, 2011)

What we have learned through the years, and from this thread which is sort of redundant considering the information about this topic on CPF.

1. Yes it is ok to use RCR123's in the original Incan A2.

2. Yes, the three 5mm LED's will the overdriven.

3. Remove the LED's if you are concerned about them being overdriven.

Anything else to be added?

Bill


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