# Fenix E0 "Dart" - comparison review



## UnknownVT (Sep 30, 2006)

4sevens (http://Fenix-Store.com) very kindly loaned me some of the latest single AAA Fenix flashlights for review.

Size -






Heads -





Design - a nice feature is that slot/cutout in the tail that allows an attached key split-ring to sit so that the light will stand on its tail




showing slot and a worm's eye view of the light standing on its tail.

The most obvious comparison is with the ArcAAA - there are so many apparent similarities (with the current ArcAAA-P(remium) - HA3 (hard) anodization and similar spec'd outputs of 5.5 lumens) - 

I only have the classic ArcAAA (circa 2003)







similar characteristics both with blue'ish hotospots - the Fenix E0 is definitiely brighter when shown side-by-side. The Fenix E0 has the typical characteristics of the Nichia CS - a sunny/yellow corona/side-spill with blue center. ArcAAA (2003) has more of a brownish corona again typical of the characteristic of a Nichia 5mm LED of the time.

Another light that might bear comparison even if it is way of the price bracket - is the budget choice here on CPF -
vs. Dorcy 1AAA (gen 2)







again the Fenix E0 definitely shows brighter.

What else? how about 
vs. Chinese "clone"







again Fenix E0 is definitely brighter.

This shows that the Fenix is brighter than the previous generation (ie: pre-Nichia CS) 5mm white LED 1AAA lights

Now let's play in more serious company -

vs. Nuwai 0.5w 1AAA (TM-310H) 







hmmm.... the Nuwai TM-310H 1/2watt is brighter - it may be the tighter/more concentrated hotspot - the Nuwai betrays its typical blue tint......

vs. 1AAA 0.5w AdvancedMart LED-050AAA 







the 1/2watt is brighter.

On paper these 1/2 watts are probably about twice as bright as the Fenix E0 - but in practice the increase in brightness doesn't make that much difference....

saying that this applies equally to the Fenix E0 vs. the previous generation 1AAA 5mm LEDs.......

Now the step from the previous gen 5mm to the 1/2watt is a worthwhile and noticable difference...... and the Fenix E0 sits in between level.

More lights of interest -

vs. Fenix E1 with power Nichia LED -








vs. Fenix E1 *Special** with U-bin Lux III







*Special - this is a mod by 4sevens that he's trying out...... 
contact him for more details

The most worthwhile thing about the Fenix is the spec'd runtime and current regulation. A claimed battery life of 20 hours with about 10 hours on high seems very impressive.

Unfortunately I can't do runtimes - but xiaoyao's excellent review -
Fenix E0 (simple review)
has a runtime graph along with figures for the ArcAAA-P(remium) (2005)

_*Update - ADDED* Nov/2/2006 -_
I have a current production ArcAAA-P on loan - 
so here are the comparisons with the Fenix E0 -

sizes and heads -








Fenix E0 vs. ArcAAA-P(remium) both using alkaline AAA -







The ArcAAA-P is noticably brighter with a seemingly better tint - but the beam characteristics are similar to the E0 - just brighter - look at the -2 stops underexposed beam of the ArcAAA-P and compare it to the Fenix E0 in the full exposure.... that's the Nichia CS for you......

Just for completeness here's comparison of the current ArcAAA-P with my classic ArcAAA (circa 2003)


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## Flying Turtle (Sep 30, 2006)

Great comparo, as usual, VT! Your pics are always excellent. I have four of those lights (E0, classic Arc, Dorcy, E1) and can agree with the relative brightness.

Geoff


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## UnknownVT (Oct 1, 2006)

*Flying Turtle* wrote: _"I have four of those lights (E0, classic Arc, Dorcy, E1) and can agree with the relative brightness."_

Thank you so much for the feedback.

The one thing I mentioned but should have really emphasized is the efficiency of the Fenix E0. 

For a light that's about 2x brighter than the previous generation of 5mm LEDs, like the classics - ArcAAA and Dorcy 1AAA, and have a runtime to 50% of over 10 hours is actually terrific - probably unheard of a few years ago.

Compare this with the highly respected ArcAAA - the P(remium) version is spec'd also at 5.5 lumens - its runtime (as well as the 3 lumen regular ArcAAA) is 5 hours to 50% - so the Fenix is running at approximately the same brightness level - but (tested) with about double the runtime......


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## Lit Up (Oct 1, 2006)

> Another light that might bear comparison even if it is way off the price bracket - is the budget choice here on CPF -
> vs. Dorcy 1AAA (gen 2)
> 
> 
> ...





Not been my findings, but hey. Actually, the Dorcy has a larger circle of floody light that is much more useful for this type of light. Just hold them up to a corner of the ceiling in a room and see for yourself. The tint of the Dorcy actually helps to illuminate things just a tad brighter. For example, I've shined both lights on a pair of Converse on my top closet shelf from the same place and angle. The "All Star" on the back of the shoes was more detailed with the Dorcy than the E0 due to it's "meaner" bluish tint.
The E0 looked dimmer and greenish and thus didn't illuminate as well.


Now let's play in more serious company -

vs. Nuwai 0.5w 1AAA (TM-310H) 







hmmm.... the Nuwai TM-310H 1/2watt is brighter - it may be the tighter/more concentrated hotspot - the Nuwai betrays its typical blue tint......

vs. 1AAA 0.5w AdvancedMart LED-050AAA 







the 1/2watt is brighter.



> On paper these 1/2 watts are probably about twice as bright as the Fenix E0



..........


> - but in practice the increase in brightness doesn't make that much difference....







> saying that this applies equally to the Fenix E0 vs. the previous generation 1AAA 5mm LEDs.......







> The most worthwhile thing about the Fenix is the spec'd runtime and current regulation. A claimed battery life of 20 hours with about 10 hours on high seems very impressive.


 
until you actually "see" those last 10 hours. I had a green lawn chair not barely past a foot or so outside the sliding glass door, pointing it 8 inches from the chair, wouldn't illuminate a spot. Actually, it did, but you weren't seeing anymore than dark adapted eyes would allow.

So, that being the case, wouldn't the -> 7 dollar <- Garrity 1xAAA that claims 12 hours REALLY be impressive?

I'll let you know.

I wouldn't have attacked this review, but I'm not sure it's not 100% unbiased, and some lofty claims were made which definitely didn't measure up to what I've compared to in person.

Especially the claim of there being no descernable difference between an E0 and a 0.5 watt AdvancedMart in actual use.

Sorry, I just think that people who are spending their hard-earned money should get both sides of a story and draw their own conclusions.

For me, the cheaper 1xAAA's do just as good if not a hair bit better than a more expensive light of the same form factor.

And before anybody jumps on the HAIII bandwagon, I've seen the 'P1 - 5 months on a keychain post.' Looked like a beaten maglite from the 80's.


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## amanichen (Oct 1, 2006)

> until you actually "see" those last 10 hours. I had a green lawn chair not barely past a foot or so outside the sliding glass door, pointing it 8 inches from the chair, wouldn't illuminate a spot. Actually, it did, but you weren't seeing anymore than dark adapted eyes would allow.


Don't worry, all the ARC zealots constantly argue that 25% of 5.5 lumens is enough usable light, and the Fenix E0 puts out much more than that for its entire runtime. You should have a few words with them


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## Lit Up (Oct 1, 2006)

amanichen said:


> Don't worry, all the ARC zealots constantly argue that 25% of 5.5 lumens is enough usable light, and the Fenix E0 puts out much more than that for its entire runtime. You should have a few words with them



No thanks. I've never worn glasses or had any eye problems and I'm sure not gonna start via eye strain by using "moon mode" on an Arc or a E0.

There's useable light and then there's trying to convince yourself that it's enough and you made a good purchase.
There's some decent Fenix products for the money, this just doesn't happen to be one of them, IMHO.

And if any Dorcy 1xAAA owners want to validate my claim for themselves of a bit brighter and larger spot of light, I'll be more than happy to do a group passaround of the E0.

The beam pattern of the E0 reminds me more of my Streamlight 1xAA, except the SL is of course brighter and throws.

The E0 would be a better deal at say 8-9 bucks. Not worth more than that.


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## UnknownVT (Oct 1, 2006)

*Lit Up* wrote: _"



_
_Not been my findings, but hey. Actually, the Dorcy has a larger circle of floody light that is much more useful for this type of light. Just hold them up to a corner of the ceiling in a room and see for yourself. _
_I wouldn't have attacked this review, but I'm not sure it's not 100% unbiased, and some lofty claims were made which definitely didn't measure up to what I've compared to in person._
_Especially the claim of there being no descernable difference between an E0 and a 0.5 watt AdvancedMart in actual use._
_Sorry, I just think that people who are spending their hard-earned money should get both sides of a story and draw their own conclusions._
_For me, the cheaper 1xAAA's do just as good if not a hair bit better than a more expensive light of the same form factor."_

Many thanks for the input.

Just to be clear I've not taken this in any bad way - I am always interested in others' opinions - and that's the whole point of posting reviews in threads so that other opinions/corrections can be shown. I did not consider it an attack (and I'm sorry you do).

Having said that what you said made me revisit the 3 lights you specifically cited. The Fenix E0, Dorcy 1AAA, and AdvancedMart 1/2w 1AAA.

With fresh alkalines in each I took them into an almost entirely dark room of about 12ftx12ft - average to small average, and just compared them by simple eyeballing.

I still stand by AdvM 1/2watt ~2x> Fenix E0 ~2x> Dorcy 1AAA

First Fenix E0 vs. Dorcy 1AAA - the Fenix E0 is definitely brighter and I can see better with it - please remember I am at limited distance where nothing is much more than about 10-12ft away. I see more detail and basically better with the Fenix E0.

BUT, and this is the point - in isolation because our eyes accomodate/adapt to the environment and light being used - I would find the Dorcy 1AAA fine for normal use - and even though the Fenix E0 is brighter - the jump in brightness in itself is not enough to make me want to change from the Dorcy 1AAA as my EDC -

Now it sounds like we agree - but not in the same way. I am saying - of course I can see a difference in brightness - but for me the jump (2x'ish) is not enough to be worthwhile - for me.......

The comparison between the AdvanceMart 1/2watt and the Fenix is somewhat similar - yes, the AdvM is definitely brighter and in fact the overall beam characteristics is better - so again I do see clearer and better with the AdvM 1/2watt when I compare one after the other. However similarly I am still saying the step up from the Fenix E0 to the AdvM 1/2w 1AAA is not enough in its brightness alone. Again in isolation I could use either about as well.

Now the difference between the Dorcy 1AAA and the AdvM 1/2watt is (obviously) much more noticable, and for me a more worthwhile step up.

Notice I have very carefully said "for me" as a qualifier. 

In practice I would not find too much difference when using a Fenix E0 to a Dorcy 1AAA - nor a Fenix E0 to a AdvM 1/2watt 1AAA. 
That does not mean to say I can't tell a difference - I obviously can - but would I choose one over the other in the pairs mentioned? - 
yes, but NOT solely on brightness.

.... and a tested almost 11 hours runtime (to 50%) is still pretty amazing for a light on a single AAA that's actually about 2x brighter than the immediate previous generation of 5mm LEDs - IMHO.

Basically AdvM 1/2w 1AAA ~2x> Fenix E0 ~2x> Dorcy 1AAA are the simple facts -

whether I think they are worthwhile step-ups in brightness is entirely my opinion - which anyone is entitled to disagree or agree with -
like they say YMMV.


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## NewBie (Oct 1, 2006)

Lit Up said:


> No thanks. I've never worn glasses or had any eye problems and I'm sure not gonna start via eye strain by using "moon mode" on an Arc or a E0.
> 
> There's useable light and then there's trying to convince yourself that it's enough and you made a good purchase.
> There's some decent Fenix products for the money, this just doesn't happen to be one of them, IMHO.
> ...




Okay, I'm trying to grasp what is said here.

First, one will notice the quality of materials, and the build quality of the Fenix E0 easily outclasses the Dorcy AAA by several magnitudes. The Dorcy has shoddy construction in comparison, and is made from cheap junk metal- unlike the Fenix E0.

Noting the above, the Dorcy AAA vs. Fenix E0 is an awesome example of how one gets what they pay for. Material quality and construction wise, the Fenix E0 is by and far, much closer to the ARC.

The Dorcy AAA is much closer to those cheap lights out of Hong Kong.

I see the Fenix E0 pulling 0.070mA off a cell at 1.3V, Power = Voltage * Current, so the light is pulling 0.091 Watts.

You can slice and dice it any way you'd like, but a light that is pulling 0.5W will not last as long as a light pulling less than 0.1W.

The light that is pulling less than 0.1W will produce light five times longer than the light that is pulling 0.5W.

Run time wise, the E0 is hitting the 11 hour mark.


Our own busybody cpf'er Roy did a runtime plot on the ARC AAA here:






Roy also did a runtime on the old bright Dorcy AAA, before they reduced it's output by half:






If you go out and buy the new Dorcy AAA, you will notice they reduced the light output by half. The newer versions can easily be identified by the new optic lens on the front.
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/dorcy_aaa.htm


Many of these 5mm lights (not the Fenix E0), are drastically overdriving their 5mm LEDs.

This results in damage to the LED, that can be seen in a very short order.

In one recent example I tested, the output dropped down by 95% in only 240 hours (yes, 5% output), see how it actually toasted the epoxy/phosphor black: 






How fast did it ruin the LED?







Another shot:






Further details can be found here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/128801&page=5&pp=40
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1600856


My comparision shots:


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## Kryosphinx (Oct 1, 2006)

UnknownVT, could you get a shot of the two E1's?


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## UnknownVT (Oct 1, 2006)

*Kryosphinx* wrote: _"could you get a shot of the two E1's?"_

I have already 
...kind of.....

The two Fenix E1's are identical externally - since the special is really a mod to the LED (ie: internal) 
so if they were next to each other in that already crowded size group shot they'd be idential and the only way to tell them apart is if I labelled them - and even then it would not matter if I swapped them around
(would I be so mischievous



)

Any difference is shown in the group shot of the heads, where one can see the square emitter die of the the regular E1, and the round dome on the E1 Special.


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## Kryosphinx (Oct 1, 2006)

LOL

I meant a beamshot, so we could get a direct comparison.


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## UnknownVT (Oct 1, 2006)

*Kryosphinx* wrote: _"LOL _
_I meant a beamshot, so we could get a direct comparison. "_

LoL!





That will come, when I do a comparison review the E1.....
soon.


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## Lit Up (Oct 1, 2006)

NewBie said:


> > Okay, I'm trying to grasp what is said here.
> >
> > First, one will notice the quality of materials, and the build quality of the Fenix E0 easily outclasses the Dorcy AAA by several magnitudes. The Dorcy has shoddy construction in comparison, and is made from cheap junk metal- unlike the Fenix E0.
> >
> ...


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## NewBie (Oct 1, 2006)

Lit Up said:


> NewBie said:
> 
> 
> > Here's another: Streamlight 1xAA uses more materials; is aluminum; has a high setting; a low setting that matches the E0 AND it's runtime; a strobe mode;a reflector; a lens; an rubber electronic switch; more lettering on the body (production cost issues here) a Nichia; and a no hassle warranty.
> ...


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## Lit Up (Oct 1, 2006)

NewBie said:


> Lit Up said:
> 
> 
> > > Great, sounds like a nice throw away light, as that poor Nichia LED is going to degrade fast on high.
> ...


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## chevrofreak (Oct 1, 2006)

Lit Up, I'm getting tired of all your ignorant posts about the Fenix E0 and how you think it is a waste of money. It is an absolutely fantastic light that does what it is advertised to do. The build quality blows the Dorcy away, and the price is much lower than the Arc.

It is *meant* to be a low output *long running* well built light, and that's is exactly what it is. The efficiency of this light is fantastic, and the circuit is actually fully regulated, unlike any other commercialy available AAA light on the market.

It really does seem like you are on a crusade against this fantastic little light, and I don't understand why. Quality of materials is worth the extra price over the other lights you seem to be so fond of.

some runtime data


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## meat (Oct 1, 2006)

> Lit Up, I'm getting tired of all your ignorant posts about the Fenix E0 and how you think it is a waste of money. It is an absolutely fantastic light that does what it is advertised to do. The build quality blows the Dorcy away, and the price is much lower than the Arc.



While I and most of the people on this forum agree with you Chevro, he has the right to his opinion no matter how out of whack or inexperienced it may seem.

The pictures even prove the quality of the beam in the first pictures compared to the Dorcy. The E0 is a more closer competitor to the Arc than the Dorcy, even thought they both have 5mm LEDs and take a AAA battery. The Dorcy is larger, has an optic, does not last as long and is not built as well as the E0 or Arc. Then again, the Dorcy is only $7. I could easily manage with just an E0 instead of an Arc, but I wouldn't carry a Dorcy rather than an E0 

Great comparison UnknownVT. I always enjoy your images and comparisons.


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## chevrofreak (Oct 1, 2006)

meat said:


> While I and most of the people on this forum agree with you Chevro, he has the right to his opinion no matter how out of whack or inexperienced it may seem.
> 
> The pictures even prove the quality of the beam in the first pictures compared to the Dorcy. The E0 is a more closer competitor to the Arc than the Dorcy, even thought they both have 5mm LEDs and take a AAA battery. The Dorcy is larger, has an optic, does not last as long and is not built as well as the E0 or Arc. Then again, the Dorcy is only $7. I could easily manage with just an E0 instead of an Arc, but I wouldn't carry a Dorcy rather than an E0
> 
> Great comparison UnknownVT. I always enjoy your images and comparisons.


 
He does have a right to his opinion, but I'm tired of the way it keeps getting presented. He makes it sound like anyone who buys an E0 over the cheaper Dorcy is an idiot and wasting their money.


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## xochi (Oct 1, 2006)

I can see lit up's point, if it's that the Dorcy offers alot for the money but considering that it's got shelf space in massive retail outlets and the others don't, well, then my guess is that it should be priced about like the "chinese clones".

I may be very wrong but my guess is that the Arc AAA owes nearly all it's business to word of mouth and flashlight sites like CPF. Same with Fenix. That really changes the economies of scale and since CPFers and such are naturally out LOOKING for quality lights, we're already a hot "ready to buy" market and are generally willing to pay more and go to greater lengths to buy a light. 

I've ordered two E0 Darts, one for myself and one for my Dad. I can't say what my impression will be until I get them but the runtime of these for the light output really blows the Arc out of the water. Getting 4 hours out of those trash "Heavy Duty" batteries is impressive as is 16 hours from the lithium. 

I've wanted to buy the new Arc AAA -p for quite awhile and gotten close a couple times but always thought it was just too expensive for what it was. Personally, I get a bit contrary when I hear praise of something ad nauseum and all the blah, blah, blah about Fenix irritates the crap out of me. I especially hate that they've introduced a product that Arc should've introduced last year and that it's a chinese product and is less than half the price. Basically, I'm saying that I hate that the American made product deserves to get spanked by these , and that I just bought 2 of them. 

When the E1 came out, I caught some flack from admins suggesting that Fenix "clone" the Arc. I caught flack because they interpreted my statements as stealing Arcs design , which isn't what I meant. I'll give credit to Fenix, though, they've introduced a product to _directly_ compete with the Arc AAA-P but the design is fresh and the electronics superior. 

With all this praise I'm giving fenix, I still want to emphasize that *quality is in essence an impression of detail* and Fenix generally does a little better but generally chinese made lights tend to fall short in this area. The dorcy is very low on the scale , the chinese clone even lower, the .5 watt much better than either but the Arc, IMHO , scores highest. I do get a sense of quality from the arc and that is important to me, unfortunately , a very low quality baseball bat will wack a ball further than a beautifully finished wooden dowel every time.


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## Lit Up (Oct 1, 2006)

chevrofreak said:


> > Lit Up, I'm getting tired of all your ignorant posts about the Fenix E0 and how you think it is a waste of money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## chevrofreak (Oct 1, 2006)

Lit Up said:


> So use some of your "brilliance" and stop reading them, perhaps?


 
would be simpler if you just stopped posting it 




> You mean like this?
> http://www.garritylites.com/page49.html
> 
> I won't bother to mention (again) the E0's 'all powerful' moon mode.


 
Where does it say that is fully regulated? That light is also far larger than the Fenix E0, at 4-1/8" long, not to mention the larger diameter.



> Because for what it does, it can be had cheaper.


 
Then I guess there is no reason to ever buy a Surefire 6P, E2e or M2 since the poorly built Brinkmann Maxfire does the same thing for less money.



> The quality of materials is no different than what SL uses (although the SL seems more solid) in the aforementioned tasklight with many more features AND more material. Yet, it's 12 bucks. Are we starting to make the connection in price differentials now?


 
Is the Streamlight hard anodized? Hard anodize can add quite a bit of cost (and value) to a light. The smaller circuit board of the Fenix could also increase cost due to more difficult manufacture.


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## Lit Up (Oct 1, 2006)

chevrofreak said:


> > would be simpler if you just stopped posting it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## NewBie (Oct 2, 2006)

Lit Up said:


> NewBie said:
> 
> 
> > Here's another: Streamlight 1xAA uses more materials; is aluminum; has a high setting; a low setting that matches the E0 AND it's runtime; a strobe mode;a reflector; a lens; an rubber electronic switch; more lettering on the body (production cost issues here) a Nichia; and a no hassle warranty.
> ...


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## shiftd (Oct 2, 2006)

nice beamshots jar.

I found the third beamshot in the 5 beamshots set to be the most helpful. You can actually gauge the difference in the brightness.


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## xochi (Oct 2, 2006)

Lit Up, now you really showed a basic lack of something by posting that garrity light. I'd be willing to bet its a direct drive /resistored setup with one of those silly 3 AAA battery holders. That light is meant to wow ignorant consumers who read the package in a wal-mart because they are only just beginning to buy and understand LED lights. 

Considering Garrity's market, it would be foolish for them to release anything more. Regulated lights will come from them but not until consumers show real signs of knowing something about LED lights. They didn't get that big being stupid.


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## [email protected] (Oct 3, 2006)

Guys, cool down and take the bickering offline...


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## TedTheLed (Oct 3, 2006)

...reading about the Fenix EO brightness comments I found occasion to look up a lumens chart;
thought I'd put it here, just FYI;

Illuminance Abbr. Example

0.00005 lux	50 µlx	Starlight
1 lux	Moonlight
10 lux	Candle at a distance of 30 cm (1 ft)
400 lux	A brightly lit office
400 lux	Sunrise or sunset on a clear day.
1000 lux	1 klx	Typical TV studio lighting
32000 lux	32 klx	Sunlight on an average day (min.)
100000 lux	100 klx	Sunlight on an average day (max.)

if they mean a FULL moon is 'only' 1 lux, and a since I find a full moon illuminates a path well enough to negotiate my way, then, imho, a light 4 to 8 times that intensity would be quite handy..

btw when did we all forget about not overdriving LEDs? I think it started with the assumption that overdriving would shorten the burn time, but the philosophy went; " even if it cuts the bulb life in half that's still 50,000 hours, that's plenty for me..!" I didn't realize the LEDs would actually dim long before that..

maybe that's why the brightest longest lasting early LED lights had so many ('dim') LEDS, like the 20-LED Action Light by HDS, it feeds just 20ma to each bulb..

yup my forgetter about LEDs is getting bigger than my rememberer...


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## UnknownVT (Oct 3, 2006)

Lots of interesting stuff in this thread.

Many thanks to both NewBie and chevrofreak for your very valuable contributions, and adding to our knowledge base.

Despite the fact I do have lots (OK a modest amount) of LED flashlights that are a lot brighter - I remain pretty impressed with the Fenix E0.

It is a modest single 5mm LED that's about 2x brightness of the immediate previous generation, and highly respected lights like the ArcAAA, Dorcy 1AAA (and even CMG Ultra).

But it manages about 11 hours to 50% out of a single regular AAA battery - not only that the output is virtually FLAT for about 9 hours - I say impressed - but perhaps if I were more into hyperbole - I really would be saying "amazing" - 
that's how fast technology and improvements in LEDs and circuit designs are moving.

The possible rivals mentioned of the Streamlight Task-Light 1AA and the Garrity A1 - are both AA lights and much, much larger (I am assuming on the Garrity, as the page does not specify the battery - but at a length of 4 1/8" - it is either a very large AAA light or as I hazard a guess it is an AA light) and long'ish runtimes are not too surprising since a typical AA alkaline has about 2.28X the capacity of an AAA alkaline...... the Fenix E0 is only 2 5/8" long by 1/2" diameter even at its widest.

So for a light that's closer to the size of the classic ArcAAA - I feel the Fenix E0 is probably currently one of the most efficient AAA lights around - it has great balance between brightness and long runtime.


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## carrot (Oct 3, 2006)

I am so tired of hearing this crap in every E0 thread about why the E0 is a "terrible deal" and a bad light. Everybody knows that opinion already. We don't have to have it crammed down our throats. The Surefire 6P is a "terrible deal" when you can get a G2 or a Brinkmann Maxfire LX for less than half the price. A light is more than its initial output. It's not just the sum of its parts. It's the R&D put into it, the design, the regulated circuitry, and the value placed on it by its owner. Personally, I find the E0 a great keychain light, as it gives me enough light to navigate and walk by, for hours.


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## brightnorm (Oct 3, 2006)

```

```
 I'm carrying both the ARC 4P and the EO on my keyring. By any standards the EO is an excellent light and its long regulated runtime makes it especially useful. But before it replaces my relatively bombproof ARC there are three issues/questions I'd like to resolve.

1) How durable and reliable will it prove to be? Only time will tell

2) Will the ergonomics be improved? I find it hard to turn the head with dry or cold hands, whereas the ARC turns easily. Either deepen the knurling on the head end or add knurling to the "hump". One of my P1's had a similar problem and David has promised to check knurling of future orders.

3)Can it accept an L92 (lithium) without circuit failure or premature LED dimming? This is important to me since I carry it as emergency backup EDC which must be ready to go any time, anywhere in hot or cold. My ARC came through twice when I really needed it, and one I gifted to a friend proved its mettle when it all hit the fan in a very difficult situation.

Many of us "oldtimers" have felt and perhaps still feel a sense of loyalty to ARC despite "certain" events. Peter Gransee earned this loyalty the hard way back in LED light pioneering days. NTL, if the EO proves to be a better light for my purposes (it is, after all, a personal decision), then it will become my backup keyring EDC and I will bid a reluctant farewell to my always reliable ARC.

Brightnorm


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## Flying Turtle (Oct 3, 2006)

The new E0 has taken, at least temporarily, the old Arc's place in my pocket. The Arc is still with me, though, on the keychain. I see it as kind of a lucky charm that should stay close.

Geoff


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## xochi (Oct 3, 2006)

Flying Turtle said:


> The new E0 has taken, at least temporarily, the old Arc's place in my pocket. The Arc is still with me, though, on the keychain. I see it as kind of a lucky charm that should stay close.
> 
> Geoff



Wow! If I'm remembering your posts correctly, that really says alot about the E0! 

I really hope that Gransee has an ace up his sleeve other than the new LS as the introduction of the E0 really changes the value equation of the Arc. I'm often critical of Arc but the truth is that I really like their lights and I hope that MTD is offering the resources to keep a hold on a segment of the AAA market.

Depending on how seriously Fenix pushes the E0, it could really take a bite out of Arc AAA sales.


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## brightnorm (Oct 3, 2006)

Any definitive word on whether the EO can safely take lithium primaries? IIRC top recommended voltage is 1.6 which is about 10% less than new L92's. I much prefer lithiums, so that could be dealmaker/breaker for me. This isn't so much for runtime as it is for storability, durability and dependable deployment.

Brightnorm


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## chevrofreak (Oct 3, 2006)

brightnorm said:


> Any definitive word on whether the EO can safely take lithium primaries? IIRC top recommended voltage is 1.6 which is about 10% less than new L92's. I much prefer lithiums, so that could be dealmaker/breaker for me. This isn't so much for runtime as it is for storability, durability and dependable deployment.
> 
> Brightnorm


 
I ran one for over 15 hours on one and it didn't burn out, so I'd say it's safe.


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## Badbeams3 (Oct 4, 2006)

Ah, Bart...why did you have go and stop such a entertaining thread...I was having fun reading the point, counter point. Lite-up has some real good points...although the comparison with the Garrity 3 aaa 1 watt light was a bit of a stretch. I think he has a bad E0 sample. But either way he makes this place fun.

Thanks for the runtimes...this light is surprising. Actually does just as is claimed.

Ken


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## xochi (Oct 4, 2006)

I just received two E0's. I think they are fantastic. The *design* is superior to the Arc in many ways. 

*Brightnorm* I don't know if this is a recent change or if your unit is the same but the two E0's that I received have signifigantly more aggresive knurling on the head of the light than the body of the light. I though this was a very nice touch and was surprised that I hadn't seen it mentioned. Please check your lights to see if the knurling on the head is different from that on the body of the light. I find the light easy to tun on with one hand, the lump in the head seems to make it easier than the older arcs that I had. I can't say anything about the new style.

For less than 20 dollars, Arc has a serious fight on it's hands. Before the Fenix E0, Even with the brighter E1 available I could still see that the Arc had some compelling reasons for people to buy it. The E0 changes that. The Arc does have real HA, I don't think the Fenix is really type 3. It may still be the same substance in a much thinner layer but it looks so different that I'm sort of baffled. I can see collectors buying them or perhaps some people will think that the legendary status of the Arc AAA is due to some intangible that clearly makes it a better light. Other than that, perhaps some folks will still buy the Arc because , for the most part, it's reliability issues are known and mostly minor, whereas the Fenix isn't really proven.

Considering that for the cost of one Arc AAA-P you can buy two fenix E0's and still have enough left over to buy AAA's to feed them for the next five years. The beam is smoother in the fenix, and the nagging suspicion that maybe it's time for a new battery won't exist with the Fenix on account of very flat regulation. One won't be worrying about wether the LED was brighter a year ago with the fenix either. 

The E0 *IS* the impetus for the death of , the price reduction of , or the redesign of , the Arc AAA. I just can't see it any other way. The E0 even tailstands, doesn't have issues with a solder blob or foam donut (both kind of cheesy design implementations). KevinL said something to the effect that the E0 doesn't take anything away from the Arc but I have to disagree, the Arc has now lost it's position in the market as being the only high quality keychain light that uses a AAA and a Nichia CS and this is one of the only reason that the Arc sold for what it did. 

On the one hand , I'm kind of sad because the Arc is such a good light and it's kind of a CPF Icon or a landmark in time. On the other hand I'm very glad because I wanted an Arc AAA very badly but I considered what it was and just how much more I get for the same amount of money everywhere else and it felt like Arc was taking advantage of the situation and really not doing anything to improve economies of scale, not trying to grow just try and find another niche market to exploit. So, primarily, I'm glad that the Arc AAA is now either alot cheaper or dead. 

Now, I've got my Fenix E0, It's better than the Arc in many ways and I'm still supporting CPF dealers/contributors when I bought them.


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## brightnorm (Oct 4, 2006)

chevrofreak said:


> I ran one for over 15 hours on one and it didn't burn out, so I'd say it's safe.


That's encouraging. It will be interesting to see how performance on lithium holds up over the next few months.

xochi, my EO's knurling is identical on head and body. This is the second example of Fenix's inconsistant knurling, including the P1 I mentionerd earlier. Perhaps Fenix farms out its manufacturing to different shops. This morning, with dry hands, I was unable to turn on the EO one-handed but the ARC was no problem. It's good to know this isn't inherent in the design, but frustrating NTL.

Brightnorm


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## Flying Turtle (Oct 4, 2006)

My E0 also has the more aggresive knurling on the head. A nice touch.

Geoff


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## WildChild (Oct 5, 2006)

Here too, more agressive knurling on the head!


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## UnknownVT (Oct 5, 2006)

I probably have one of the later ones - 
the knurling on the head is is more defined than on the body - 
compared to a classic ArcAAA (~2003) -





Fenix seems pretty (D) quick to respond to the feedback on this issue.


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## brightnorm (Oct 5, 2006)

That is distinctly different than mine. Good to know they're on top of this.

Brightnorm


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## xochi (Oct 5, 2006)

That is very impressive! Darn, I really wanted to keep disliking Fenix but I think I might have to find some good recipes for crow!


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## UnknownVT (Oct 7, 2006)

*Kryosphinx* wrote: _"I meant a beamshot, so we could get a direct comparison. "_

Side-by-side comparison beamshots between the (standard) Fenix E1 and the E1 "Special" - aka Fenix E1-47 posted in this review -

Fenix E1 - Comparison review


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## UnknownVT (Oct 14, 2006)

Some current draw readings -

alkaline AAA @ 1.527V Open-Circuit
NiMH AAA @ 1.307V o-c

Fenix E0 -
alkaline = 79mA
NiMH = 54mA

for comparison -
Fenix E1 -
*Updated* - _Nov/3/2006_ - _I have another Fenix E1 on loan thanks to 4sevens (__http://Fenix-Store.com__) and have retaken the current draw readings on the correct 10A scale-_

_Alkaline AAA @ 1.432V o-c_
_NiMH AAA @ 1.317V o-c_
_alkaline = 0.28A_
_NiMH = 0.27A_

Fenix E1 - 47 (special mod by 4sevens with U-bin Lux3 - UWAJ)
(_EDIT: corrected using 10A scale_)
alkaline = 0.26A
NiMH = 0.29A


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## macforsale (Oct 14, 2006)

Interesting graphs in post #16. Sharp spike up just before output starts dropping off for all the types of batteries. Something about the electronics? It does seem to do a good job of regulation. Almost like the electronics is doing a load vs. voltage test and decided to battery was at the end of life and changed modes.


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## NewBie (Oct 16, 2006)

Here are the runtimes, nearly completed, for my Fenix E0 on Rayovac Alkalines:


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## NewBie (Oct 23, 2006)

Added Duracell and Lithium:


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## EngrPaul (Oct 23, 2006)

Why do people one lithiums in thier E0 at $2.50 for 15 hours, when they can have the same lighting level using Alkalines for 45 hours with the same amount of money?

Some say Lithium is the only way to go, but with nicely regulated devices with already long runtimes, it doesn't make much sense.

SIDE NOTE: Has anyone put a WHITE led in the E0 to replace the blue one they ship with?


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## chimo (Oct 23, 2006)

Nice comparison Newbie. 

I have to agree with EngrPaul on the lithium observation for this light. It appears like the E0 is not as efficient at the slightly higher lithium drive levels. 

Paul


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## jdriller (Oct 23, 2006)

Typical reasons for lithiums:
Great runtime
Works in the cold
10 year shelf life
Does not tend to leak (alky AAA seem to leak more than other sizes)


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## Hondo (Oct 23, 2006)

And they weigh less, but I don't even own any AAA lith's, I agree, and run Alkies in my E0's too.





EngrPaul said:


> Why do people one lithiums in thier E0 at $2.50 for 15 hours, when they can have the same lighting level using Alkalines for 45 hours with the same amount of money?
> 
> Some say Lithium is the only way to go, but with nicely regulated devices with already long runtimes, it doesn't make much sense.
> 
> SIDE NOTE: Has anyone put a WHITE led in the E0 to replace the blue one they ship with?


 
Yes, put an old group buy Nichia CS in my bluest one, and it is the nicest one now. It is pretty easy, just push the LED out with a dowel or whatever, it is only held in by the O-ring. The whole pill will just fall out, and you can solder in your choice. Hint: Remove old solder, lightly tack one leg to adjust position and tilt of the LED, then solder both legs up good. I prop the iron on it's stand, then hold the board in one hand, the LED in the other for this.

Hondo


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## EngrPaul (Oct 23, 2006)

jdriller said:


> Typical reasons for lithiums:
> Great runtime
> Works in the cold
> 10 year shelf life
> Does not tend to leak (alky AAA seem to leak more than other sizes)


 
Good points. I would add light weight, but not really a noticeable difference with 1 AAA cell.


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## EngrPaul (Oct 23, 2006)

Hondo said:


> Yes, put an old group buy Nichia CS in my bluest one, and it is the nicest one now. It is pretty easy, just push the LED out with a dowel or whatever, it is only held in by the O-ring. The whole pill will just fall out, and you can solder in your choice. Hint: Remove old solder, lightly tack one leg to adjust position and tilt of the LED, then solder both legs up good. I prop the iron on it's stand, then hold the board in one hand, the LED in the other for this.
> 
> Hondo


 
Hondo, 

Where would I get a nice white LED for an E0 outside of a group buy, and is there any posts you know of with pictures of an E0 disassembly?

Thanks!


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## NewBie (Oct 24, 2006)

Figured I'd toss a NiMH into the fray:


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## UnknownVT (Oct 24, 2006)

*NewBie* wrote: _"Figured I'd toss a NiMH into the fray:"_

Cool! -
Thanks so much NewBie for the plot -

This shows that there isn't much advantage using a NiMH - since the current draw by the E0 is relatively low - so that the performance on plain alkaline AAA does pretty well.

OK, do bear in mind the NiMH rating was "only" 900mAh, whereas the typical alkaline AAA is about 1,150-1,250mAh. 

However alkaline ratings are typically at lower discharge currents like 25mA - using a discharge at 80mA (the current draw of the E0) we find the alkaline rating about 1,000mA to 0.9V cut off which is about the same, and probably accounts for the diminishing brightness tail-off - whereas NiMH (and lithium) have pretty sharp and abrupt current cut off.

Of course using rechargeable NiMH batteries means virtually free power and the runtime is still comparable at about 10-11hours flat - albeit with a pretty abrupt cut off.


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## Hondo (Oct 24, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> Hondo,
> 
> Where would I get a nice white LED for an E0 outside of a group buy, and is there any posts you know of with pictures of an E0 disassembly?
> 
> Thanks!


 
You probably won't need photos once you give the LED a push, it slides right out and is a very simple assembly. The only trick is bending the two 90 degree bends in the LED legs, and getting it positoned on center while soldering. I used the edge of a metal scale to bend the second bend into the legs against. The first bend I did right against the base of the LED. Not kosher, but it looks like how they do it with the original one.

Just watch out for non-tapered LED's, they will jam in the hole and require you to open it up a little, which is not too hard. The Shoppe has the Nichia CS here:

http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?cPath=48_52_77&products_id=678

These should be better than the stock CS, B1 is the least blue of the "B" range tints, and I think what is used in the latest Arc's. For a couple of more bucks, they have these:

http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?cPath=48_52_24&products_id=578

These are real white, no blue center/brown edge bias like the Nichia's. I don't have one with me now, but the thumbnail photo looks like a tapered body, so should fit the E0. I have one in the Dorcy AAA, and it is very nice, a bit larger hotspot than the Nichia, so less throw, as much as 5 mm's can throw without proper reflectors, but lots of output, very white for a 5 mm, and being 100 ma rated, should run like forever at E0 levels.

Hope this helps, and don't be afraid to poke that LED out of there!

Hondo


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## EngrPaul (Oct 24, 2006)

Thanks Hondo. That was helpful! :hug:


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## Hondo (Oct 25, 2006)

There is a photo of the pill by TinderBox in post #117 on this thread:


https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/134102

Hondo


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## EngrPaul (Oct 25, 2006)

I've ordered 3 of the better LEDs. Is it safe to put them across a couple CR2025 batteries to compare their performance until I find the best one?

The bending and soldering doesn't scare me


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## UnknownVT (Oct 25, 2006)

*EngrPaul* wrote: _"I've ordered 3 of the better LEDs. Is it safe to put them across a couple CR2025 batteries to compare their performance until I find the best one?"_

Which better LEDs did you order?
This could be important -
if they were the Nichia CS then you probably should be OK -
reasoning most "Photon" coin cell LED lights are driven by 2x 2016 batteries @ a nominal 6V - however warning - there have been lots of reports on the cheap clones of DoA cases as well as ones that eventually go stroboscopic. But Nichia CS are supposed to be more resiliant.

The Uncut MJLED might be different - lots of the cut MJLED's were used for MiniMag 2AA direct bulb replacements, and there have been reports in earlier versions that primary Lithium AA batteries (at 1.7V) have damaged the LED - now of course primary Lithium AA cells can probably drive a lot more current than 2025 or 2016... it's the max current rating that must not be exceeded at 100mA otherewise the MJLED might be damaged or its life shortened. 

Might want to consider a current limiting resistor in either case just to be safe....


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## EngrPaul (Oct 25, 2006)

UnknownVT said:


> Which better LEDs did you order?


 
I ordered the 5mm 100ma white power from the sandwich shoppe ($3.25)

I was thinking of just using one fresh 3V lithium coin cell, not two. I predict there wouldn't be a lot of light, but I can get a comparison of how they perform at low current. Does this make sense?


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## UnknownVT (Oct 25, 2006)

*EngrPaul* wrote: _"I ordered the 5mm 100ma white power from the sandwich shoppe ($3.25)_
_I was thinking of just using one fresh 3V lithium coin cell, not two. I predict there wouldn't be a lot of light, but I can get a comparison of how they perform at low current. Does this make sense?"_

Those are the Uncut MJLEDs - and they are surpringly bright on just 3V - as they are special low Vf LEDs - and the cut versions are used a lot in MiniMag 2AA direct bulb replacements. 

A single 3V lithium coin/button cell not only is safe - but would probably be pretty bright too - as would 2x alkaline AA batteries.

Please let us know how you get on - and how much improvement you see over the standard E0 - I think the tint and (even) coverage may be better (although I thought the gen3 or first sMJLEDs seemed overall blue.... see:
super MJLED drop-in for MiniMag 2AA ) 

- but I'm not too sure if there'll be any dramatic increase in brightness - 
but hey, I've been wrong lots of times....


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## EngrPaul (Oct 25, 2006)

UnknownVT said:


> Please let us know how you get on - and how much improvement you see over the standard E0 - I think the tint and (even) coverage may be better (although


 
I'll probably be able to describe the difference but not quantify it. I have no light measuring equipment  and only one E0 (no side-by-side pix)


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## Hondo (Oct 25, 2006)

UnknownVT has more knowledge than I on the coin cell test question, but I would also guess that if you find one cell too dim to sort the LED's, that you could get away with two for short periods, even assuming it drives the LED at 150-200 ma. But I doubt it would be that high. Of all the things I have used that uncut MJLED for, coin cell lights is not one. I am thinking of modding my next E0 with it as well, so I look forward to your comments on the mod!

Hondo


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## EngrPaul (Oct 25, 2006)

I can't get the pill out. I'm using a sharpie with the dimple on the end, not quite fully in the lens opening.

I got squirt in the face, I was scared it was the sharpie. Here I had a few day old blister on my finger that popped!

I put the head in boiling-hot water for 5 minutes, still not dice (or pill)

Does it have something to do with the NATURAL finish? I remember 4Sevens said something about not being able to modify the E1 natural finish because of trouble like this. I look at the bottom of the PWB and it appears to be black stuff bonding it to the head. Am I out of luck?


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## Hondo (Oct 26, 2006)

Black stuff? Sounds as if it is potted. I have only popped out the pill in my black one, although color should not matter. The problem 4sevens had with the natural E1's was unscrewing the threads of the head, so different sort of issue. I will have to try to pop my natural finish one tonight, as I do plan to mod it eventually. This would be a dissapointment if it is potted. But you are on the right track, heat should be the way to defeat it if it is glued in.


Hondo


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## EngrPaul (Oct 26, 2006)

Well, it appears that they epoxy the pill into place to keep it centered, so that the (-) ring can't touch the outer wall (which could cause it to stay on even when untwisted). Maybe they don't do it to all of them.

What I did to remove the pill is scrape the entire periphery of the PWB with the back side of a new exacto knife. Before trying to push out the pill, I gave the unit one more test, it worked OK. After pushing out the pill I could see the epoxy ran down around the LED.

When I receive my upgrade LED's, I'll do the mod, test it out, and then epoxy the pill back into place. I took too much material off by scraping, I'll need the epoxy this time.

Meanwhile, I'll polish the bezel. It worked out really well on my CMG infinity (rev 1) which I will also be upgrading with one of the new LED's.


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## Hondo (Oct 26, 2006)

Yes sir, both my natural E0's have a little black sealer around the edge of the board. I blasted the head with my hobby heat gun, close range only about 12-15 seconds, and grabbed it in my work glove and pushed the LED, POP! I just cleaned up some of the glue remnants on the edge of the PCB and inside the head and it is like the black one I modded now. Sounds like a bigger mess in yours if there was enough to run all the way to the LED.


Just a thought, if you would like to keep it modular: Try laying on a thin bead of epoxy right on the edge of the board, and let it set. Then you can file it to a neat slip fit inside the head without adhesion to the aluminum. Centering of the LED, assuming the board is not sloppy in the head anymore, will be determined by the bend in the LED legs. Don't worry about the negative shorting to the head, the anodizing in there an effective insulator, the negative trace must touch the machined end of the battery tube to turn the light on.

Hondo


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## EngrPaul (Oct 26, 2006)

Well I removed the LED from the board and polished the bezel with a Dremel and polishing attachment kit. It's mirror-smooth, less scratchy than I've seen pictures of. I swear the beam was brighter on the wall after this! I used some end-caps that were samples from Dempsey Industries at work. I cut a hole in the middle, just enough to still cover the leading edge of the head. Then I put one on the back end in case I dropped it or it came flying out of my hand! This worked great, fully polished in the middle without one stray buff or scratch on the outside. 

Since I'm impatient waiting for my new LED's, I've put the LED from the E0 into my old Infinity CMG (good practice). I was scared the leg would break off where it was bent sharply when in the E0, but it didn't, I was extra careful to bend it back to straight with good needle-nose pliers while gently pulling away from the LED. I removed the black paint from the Infinity, polished the reflector, and crimped it back it. It works just about as brightly (or dimly he-he) as it did when it was in the E0. I will confirm once I get the new E0. Nice "free" upgrade!

I'm getting a black E0 (because I didn't expect success today getting the pill out of the natural), so I will be modifying that one too. Then the third (weakest) LED will probably go into an old Photon-3.

The heat gun was probably a good option, I was afraid of too much temperature. I will put a few small dabs of two-part epoxy on places around the perimeter with a toothpick, something I can scrape off really quickly if I need to in the future.

I can't wait to see if it's as bright as the OEM E0 LED was. It seems to me a 100mA LED would not perform too well at 20mA. I hope it does!

Can somebody host my beam shot comparison of a stock E0 vs. one upgraded with this white high power LED? This is the least we can do to get the topic back on track :naughty:


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## EngrPaul (Oct 30, 2006)

The body of the Sandwich Shoppe High power LED is not tapered at all. It sits low in the bezel and stops early. I'm not going to open up the hole, it's working fine. I just had to reduce the LED tail length some.

Two of the 3 LED's I bought were dim duds. Only one really shined. I'm glad I got three. 

The mod works great, puts out a wider white beam. It's very useful in a dark room, whereas I never felt the E0 was good for much at all. I didn't modify the current, I just replaced the LED. I can't measure it, but I would put money on getting 10-20% more total lumens.

Before I epoxy things up, I'm going to paint glowinc ultra green behind the LED  

I just received a black E0. I have a batch of 50K JELED's on the way. This is what's due for this host :rock: 



Hondo said:


> http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?cPath=48_52_24&products_id=578
> 
> These are real white, no blue center/brown edge bias like the Nichia's. I don't have one with me now, but the thumbnail photo looks like a tapered body, so should fit the E0. I have one in the Dorcy AAA, and it is very nice, a bit larger hotspot than the Nichia, so less throw, as much as 5 mm's can throw without proper reflectors, but lots of output, very white for a 5 mm, and being 100 ma rated, should run like forever at E0 levels.
> 
> ...


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## cloud (Nov 2, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> What I did to remove the pill is scrape the entire periphery of the PWB with the back side of a new exacto knife. Before trying to push out the pill, I gave the unit one more test, it worked OK. After pushing out the pill I could see the epoxy ran down around the LED.


 
Mmm... Ive had 3 E0's 2 given away as gifts.. ive pushed out each 'pill' out of curiosity, without any problems whatsoever.. light finger pressure, infact I was considering epoxying them in because they came out so easy..

look like peoples milage vary with this model..

good luck with your mod:rock:


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## EngrPaul (Nov 2, 2006)

The black one I got last week had no epoxy at all. 

It seems they are only epoxying ithe natural version for some reason.


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## Hondo (Nov 2, 2006)

EngrPaul, same experience, x2 each, wierd. Glad the mod worked out well, I couldn't be sure about the taper on the body, I have only done one so far, and used another Nichia, so it went in all the way. Good to know it still works with the LED set back, I would have ran a drill through without trying it first. Sorry to hear about the weak LED's, I have used a handfull of these, an only one was a bit bluer and dimmer than the others, but not too terribly so. I have not tried to sort them, just left it up to lady luck when the job was done!

This little thing is the first light to start to be found in my pocket more often than my trusty Dorcy AAA mod. I think the thing I like is that it really hides well in my little watch pocket on my jeans. Even the E1/L0 body is a bit big for that.

Hondo


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## r0b0r (Nov 2, 2006)

Loving this light the more I use it 

Handy "mod" - I cut a cyalume glowstick in half and filed out its insides to happily squeeze in the head of the E0. Absolutely fantastic area light, have it hooked onto a carabiner and it's so incredibly useful... lights any room quite nicely with a smooth 360degree light, and even the top of it lets out a bit of light.

Due to the runtime, I've used this thing sitting out the back of my house with friends relaxing, drinking etc... the current battery has survived many a night use and it's still on the same cell... an old alkaline that i found on my desk, no idea of it's condition.

Always keep a spare Lithium E92 on me incase of the crusty alkaline dropping off and me needing more light 

The E0 is such a perfect light for me, it serves so very well once the eyes are adjusted to the dark. For practically every night-time task I find it quite sufficient and the low output and generous spill make it great for up close stuff - doesn't blind me!

Quite enjoy the bluey yellow output characteristics, however with the diffuser the outpuut is surprisingly white. 

I find it a far more practical light than the L1P which I loved, but managed to loose it one night at a pub when it was sitting in its holster... oops.... silly me.

Ordered one of those Luxogen LR12 CR2 beauties... this will be such an awesome partner for the E0. One exceptionally long burning miniscule easy to feed tasklight and a screamingly bright midget. Mmmmmm.


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## UnknownVT (Nov 2, 2006)

Added comparison beamsshots with a current ArcAAA-P to the opening post #*1* (link)

The single 5mm white LED lights on one AAA (or AA) cell (since the original ArcAAA, Dorcy 1AAA and CMG Ultra) have long been a pretty practical level of light.

Although there have been more recent advances in getting to about 2x brightness, that in itself, although useful, IMHO still does not take them into the truly bright category - they are still the closer task personal flashlights.

As such even though many are now starting to be 2x brighter (sounds a lot) - in practice for me at least there isn't enough brightness gain to make that much practical difference.

What the Fenix E0 has done is to use a more modern brighter 5mm LED, but instead of overdriving it to get more brightness - they decided to be more conservative and get more runtime with some apparently very good regulation - to about 9-10 hours almost flat level with about 11-12 hours to 50% and gradually/gracefully diminishing brightness to 20+hours.... 
I like this E0 a LOT......


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## EngrPaul (Nov 9, 2006)

The Sandwich Shoppe LED makes for an awesome upgrade. It's a wonderful white color and spills better than the stock E0 emitter. Overall, it puts out more light, and now the beam is smooth. Extremely useful indoors for reading, haven't tried it outdoors yet. I would probably take something brighter outdoors anyway.

One of the LED's tested on a coin cell to be dim, actually worked great in the second E0. Details here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/140615


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## UnknownVT (Nov 10, 2006)

*EngrPaul* wrote: _"The Sandwich Shoppe LED makes for an awesome upgrade. It's a wonderful white color and spills better than the stock E0 emitter. Overall, it puts out more light, and now the beam is smooth. Extremely useful indoors for reading, haven't tried it outdoors yet. I would probably take something brighter outdoors anyway._
_One of the LED's tested on a coin cell to be dim, actually worked great in the second E0. Details here:_
_https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/140615__ "_

EngrPaul very kindly sent me some comparison beamshots between a stock Fenix E0 and one mod'd with an Uncut MJLED from the Sandwich Shoppe as detailed in his quoted post.

best to use his description -

"For the beamshots, on the left is the stock E0 (black), and on the right is the mod with polished lens and "High Power 5mm white LED" from the sandwich shoppe. Both with new alkalines.

One picture is whatever my camera prescribed, the other is -2 (as far as this camera goes). Unfortunately, I could not turn off automatic white balance, so the colors are not as blue as they really are.

The stock E0 has a heavy bright blue center and a yellow corona. I don't know why this doesn't show up too well on the picture, maybe it does to some extent on the underexposed-2 picture.

The other picture is of the heads. Remember, the natural one is the mod. 

Now both of them are modded, but at the time of the pictures one was not. 

EngrPaul"

Heads -





Comparison Beamshots -








BIG thanks to EngrPaul for sharing this mod with us.


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## Moat (Nov 10, 2006)

Thanks - Vincent, EngrPaul, Hondo and Newbie for posting all of this great info! 

Paul's beamshots are the final nail... after hemmin' an' hawin' for the last month on whether or not to spring for an E0 (or two...), I'm now finally off to place an order. 

Modding with an uncut MJled will give me something to do while awaiting the wave of Cree XR-E based lights to arrive.....

Even with all of the breathtaking high-power LED flashlights available, I find I'm still enamored with simple, durable little 5mm lights - that can cover 90% of my needs. With it's fantastic regulation, conservative drive current, and excellent construction, the E0 appears to be a no-brainer.

Thanks again!


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## EngrPaul (Nov 11, 2006)

Thanks for posting my mod pictures VT. When comparing against the E0 stock bulb the SS LED seems very white. Now I compared this to my E1-47 and it's still bluish in comparison. But the uncut MJLED does a fantastic job of mixing any color variation in the emitter (blue/yellow) to a smooth constant color that is superior to the stock LED.

Just remember to open up the hole in the bezel a little at at time until the SS LED will fit through.


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## DLG (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks to all for this thread. Ordered an E0 before getting through all the replies. I've owned only a few LEDs and am looking forward to adding this one as my EDC.


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## Moat (Dec 1, 2006)

I like these... a lot. Even with the stock LED.

I installed an uncut MJLED (single-die) in one of my E0's - agreed on more light, big even flood, nice even (cool) tint. Via "ceiling bounce", I'd say roughly 50% Lumen increase... but 100% increase in drive current (MJLED measured 49 mA draw on an almost-new alkie, vs. about 25 mA for the stock Nichia CS) - so runtime will for sure suffer (I'd guess one-half - or even less, as the additional current draw may very well have pulled the circuit out of optimum "balance", with a resulting efficiency loss...??).

For grins, I also tried one of the 4 die SMJLED's, now again available @ the Shoppe... the Lumen output and beam tint/eveness were not quite as nice as the single-die version.

IMHO, the E0 is (mostly) an improvement over the ARC-P... longer/smoother threading, improved O-ring depth/purchase, ability to tailstand, superior circuit contact scheme (no "roll crimp"/dirty threading issues possible), easily equal machining quality, cheaper... and of course, the superior regulation and runtime - without overdriving the pi$$ out of the LED. 

Downsides - slightly longer, wider @ the bezel's collar (not an issue, IMO - the collar actually improves one-hand operation), not HAIII (although a very nice, even HAII), a bit dimmer, LED is not thru-mounted onto the PCB (be careful when modding!).

Great, tough little pocket/keychain light! The Chinese manufactures are getting *scary* good. 

Needs a clip, tho...

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## EngrPaul (Dec 1, 2006)

Moat,

I agree with all your assessments, especially the comment that the longer head is a benefit. I found the Arc product has too stubby of a head and poor threading too.

Thanks for the current measurement comparisons on the E0. I didn't realize the Vf of the LED could change the power delivery/usage of the driver... I thought regulation took care of that. Even so, the usefulness of the E0 has more than doubled for me, so I really don't mind half the runtime.


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## UnknownVT (Dec 1, 2006)

*Moat* wrote: _"... but 100% increase in drive current (MJLED measured 49 mA draw on an almost-new alkie, vs. about 25 mA for the stock Nichia CS) - so runtime will for sure suffer (I'd guess one-half - or even less, as the additional current draw may very well have pulled the circuit out of optimum "balance", with a resulting efficiency loss...??)."_

Can you please clarify if those current draw readings were at the battery, or at the LED?

If they were at the LED - then that might or might not affect runtimes -
that depends on the actual current draw _at the battery_.

If those were the current draws at the battery - then both are significantly lower than the reading I got (and from others on CPF) - 
_at the battery_ the draw for the stock Nichia CS was about 80mA...... 
please see Post #*44* in this thread.

Thanks,


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## chevrofreak (Dec 1, 2006)

Moat said:


> ...not HAIII (although a very nice, even HAII)...



It _is_ hard anodized, just not to military specifications.

BTW, there is no such thing as HAII. HA is an abbreviation for Hard Anodize or Hardcoat Anodize, which is always Type III. There is no such thing as Type II or Type I hard anodize. That means you can leave the "III" off when using the abbreviation "HA".


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## Moat (Dec 1, 2006)

UnknownVT said:


> Can you please clarify if those current draw readings were at the battery, or at the LED?
> 
> If they were at the LED - then that might or might not affect runtimes -
> that depends on the actual current draw _at the battery_.



Readings were @ the LED - mVdrop across a .1 Ohm (2%?) resistor temporarily soldered in series with the cathode leg of the LED. Measurement @ the battery shows 155-156 mA draw... so that lines up - with about double the draw at the battery, too.

Increased power consumed has to come from somewhere... so the battery, it is!

This would be a Voltage regulated circuit, I believe - the MJLED representing a lower resistance to current flow (thus the higher current draw), and the circuit attempts to hold the Voltage up - delivering increased current in the process.

I think... :shrug:


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## Moat (Dec 1, 2006)

chevrofreak said:


> It _is_ hard anodized, just not to military specifications.



Doh! Thanks for the correction, Chevro. I did have some faint memory of that, as I hurriedly typed. So... hard anodize is hard anodize - HAIII is simply a Mil spec as to the depth/density (longer "soak" time) - right?

In any case, the E0's ano finish is very well done and even, seemingly deeper/more durable than the typical cheap knock-offs' anodizing.


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## UnknownVT (Dec 1, 2006)

*Moat* wrote: _"Readings were @ the LED - mVdrop across a .1 Ohm (2%?) resistor temporarily soldered in series with the cathode leg of the LED. Measurement @ the battery shows 155-156 mA draw... so that lines up - with about double the draw at the battery, too._
_Increased power consumed has to come from somewhere... so the battery, it is!_
_This would be a Voltage regulated circuit, I believe - the MJLED representing a lower resistance to current flow (thus the higher current draw), and the circuit attempts to hold the Voltage up - delivering increased current in the process. _
_I think...




"_

Many thanks for the clarification and the current draw at the battery.

Up to now I thought it was mainly the circuit that determined the current draw (from the battery).

However the MJLED must present a significantly lower impedance ("resistance") to the circuit to almost double the current draw.

I thought the circuit for the E0 was *current* regulated (as shown in the runtime graphs - please see Post #*16* and Post #*47* ) - 
of course it also has to do some "voltage regulation" too, since it has to step the 1.2-1.5V of the single AA battery up to the LED's Vf (which is normally >3V)......

Thanks, that was very interesting........

In some ways I think I prefer double the runtime of the stock Nichia CS - over the gain in brightness and beam characteristics by modding to the uncut MJLED.


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## Moat (Dec 1, 2006)

UnknownVT said:


> I thought the circuit for the E0 was *current* regulated (as shown in the runtime graphs - please see Post #*16* and Post #*47* )
> 
> In some ways I think I prefer double the runtime of the stock Nichia CS - over the gain in brightness and beam characteristics by modding to the uncut MJLED.



My thoughts are (and my measurements support) that a runtime graph won't nescessarily reveal whether a circuit is Voltage or Current regulated. _At these conservative LED drive levels_, a flat, constant Voltage supplied will simply produce a flat, constant Current draw (and hence Lumen output), as well (_at the LED_ - _not at the battery!_). It's when LED's are significantly overdriven that the Vf can drop, allowing too much Current to pass - if not Current regulated. Not an issue here, as far as I can see.

It's using two different methods to achieve the same thing. Shall we slow the water filling the tub, by lowering the water pressure at the pump (lowering Voltage), or just by closing the tap a little (limiting Current)? Either way, the tub fills up at the same, slower rate.

As long as the forward Voltages of the chosen LED batch/bin they use are reasonably consistent, they'll end up with an acceptable range of drive Currents (say, 22-30 mA) for all lights driven by a given Voltage regulated circuit. Some may be a little brighter than others (of my sample of two, one was indeed about 10-15% brighter), but none will likely fall outside of an acceptable range (too dim), or be driven hard enough to thermally "run away" and be damaged.

6 of one... half dozen of the other, at these drive levels. Flat is good - either way!

I agree 100% on your thought regarding the runtime advantage of the stock Nichia CS - that's why I bought two... and am keeping one completely un-adulterated!!


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## chevrofreak (Dec 1, 2006)

Moat said:


> Doh! Thanks for the correction, Chevro. I did have some faint memory of that, as I hurriedly typed. So... hard anodize is hard anodize - HAIII is simply a Mil spec as to the depth/density (longer "soak" time) - right?




"HAIII" is just a redundant term that someone made up, possibly here on CPF. 

As I understand it the Military specification for Hard Anodize is called "MIL-A-8625F" or "MIL-A-8625 Type III". I've seen a few variations in the way it is written, such as "Mil-A-8625 Ty 3" and Mil-A-8625 Ty III"

It can still be considered a hard anodize if it uses the same proceedures, but it might not meet the military specification for hardnes or thickness or color.

More info can be found here. http://www.techplate.com/hard_anodize.htm


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## Moat (Dec 1, 2006)

Thanks for the link, Chevro.

Now I see...

"Hard Anodize" = good

"Type III" = guaranteed good

"HAIII" = _good an' stupid!!_


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## chevrofreak (Dec 1, 2006)

Moat said:


> Thanks for the link, Chevro.
> 
> Now I see...
> 
> ...




Sort of. All Type III is Hard Anodize and all Hard Anodize is Type III. It can get pretty confusing. If it's true Mil-Spec then it will be very good. The problem is knowning whether the claims are accurate or not.


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## Moat (Dec 1, 2006)

I had another thought - thought I'd throw in here -

I have a suspicion that the driver IC manufacturers have (understandably) developed their 5mm LED driver IC's to provide drive Voltages and Currents within the specs called out by the LED manufacturers... typically 20-30mA with Vf's around 3.2-3.6V (??).

Up until the Fenix E0, the vast majority of single 5mm lights we're used to seeing have been significantly _overdriven_ - putting both the LED *and* the driver circuit outside of the parameters to which they were designed. I think this may be the reason why the runtime graphs have appeared to be only partially regulated, with dropping output over time - asking more from it, than what was originally intended.

Along comes the E0, with a circuit IC and overall architecture that appears about the same as an Infinity Ultra, ARC or Dorcy 1AAA - but with peripheral components selected to drive the LED _as it was intended all along_... and with a runtime graph appearing as flat, fully regulated. 

Maybe, as *it* was intended to be, all along? Makes me wonder...


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## Moat (Dec 1, 2006)

Err... one simple, fun thing - 

Those translucent polyethylene screw-on nozzles that come with tubes of GE Silicone sealant and such... I enlarged the big threaded end ID using a flame-heated steel dowel of the right diameter, to press-fit onto the E0's bezel. 

Voila! Perfect lightstick/wand/table candle!!


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