# Surefire Customer Service



## peter yetman (Jul 20, 2016)

*I have no intention to start a Surefire bashing thread, so please observe some discretion when replying, thanks.*

I dropped my seldom used Surefire P3X the other night. I managed to smash the lens and now it only gives out a low light output.
I went to the SF site about 10 days ago and found the Contact Form for International Customers. I explained my problem and included the fact that I'd lost the tailcap (the cap on my P2X failed so I was using it on that, sadly I've lost the P2X and the working cap - I have been using a spare Malkoff tail on the P3X)
So 10 days on I haven't heard a word from SF, I know many people say that it's best to phone, but if they supply a Contact form for Intl Customers I would expect a reply. Plus, an international phone call and shipping to the States makes it an expensive process.
Is this a common problem or am I just asking too much?
Thanks,
Peter


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## Warp (Jul 20, 2016)

Surefire customer service is crap (and their lights probably aren't much better)

I bought a Surefire XC1. It was defective. I called Surefire and left a message to hold my position in the queue, they returned the call more than 4 hours later, I was not able to answer so they left a voicemail with an email address. I emailed a video of the fault, they sent a UPS return label (2 days later)...it then took them over a month to get the light back to me. It still didn't work. I called again, left a message to hold my spot in the queue, and was never called back...so the next day I emailed the same person, sent video of the recurring fault, and was told their tech didn't see anything wrong with the light so they literally just packed it back up and sent it back to me (and it was over a month for that to happen) 

I requested and was told I would get a new replacement light as soon as mine made it back to them the second time. I sent it out for that 18 days ago and am still waiting.

And I fully expect the replacement to be less than perfect. _But then more than half of my Surefire lights have failed _when literally none of my other lights do. 

Surefire is overrated and overpriced and their customer service is a freaking joke.


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## bykfixer (Jul 20, 2016)

Warp said:


> Surefire customer service is crap (and their lights probably aren't much better)



Well that didn't take long...

Hope you get it resolved quickly pete.
Other than a saying give em phone call I have no input.


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## Dave D (Jul 20, 2016)

Have you tried contacting the UK distributor for Surefire products?

Edgar Brothers based in Macclesfield.


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## peter yetman (Jul 20, 2016)

I'll try that too.
Thanks.
P


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## mckeand13 (Jul 20, 2016)

I have found that many companies, regardless of industry, fail to answer emails.  I always try calling when possible as it seems to actually work in resolving the problem.

I understand it would be an international call for you, so the situation is a little different. It seems that so many people are hung up on the ease of just sending off an email expecting a reply. Companies should reply, but seldom do.

I say try them by phone.


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## archimedes (Jul 20, 2016)

This topic recurs ... regularly.

Every time I have had occasion to use SureFire customer service _and contacted them by telephone_ ... I have had a satisfactory resolution.

I do realize that may be more costly and/or inconvenient for some, depending upon the specifics of the situation.

But ... every time I have had occasion to use SureFire customer service _and contacted them by telephone,_ I have had a satisfactory resolution.

Hope that is helpful, cheers !

EDIT - Perhaps I might also add that repair / replacement times have, in my experience, occasionally been what I would consider lengthy but not unreasonable. Since I have plenty of other alternatives on hand, I have not found this to be especially problematic.


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## bykfixer (Jul 20, 2016)

archimedes said:


> This topic recurs ... regularly.
> 
> Every time I have had occasion to use SureFire customer service _and contacted them by telephone_ ... I have had a satisfactory resolution.
> 
> ...



I'll add: be prepared to be put on hold. But after waiting and hearing the 'comercial' you may find yourself wanting to buy at least one more. lol


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## peter yetman (Jul 20, 2016)

I've Emailed Edgar Bros in the Uk to see what they can do.
The thought of hanging on to the SF commercial fills me with dread, but that may be the only option.
Thanks all for your suggestions, I'll keep you posted.
P


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## bykfixer (Jul 20, 2016)

peter yetman said:


> I've Emailed Edgar Bros in the Uk to see what they can do.
> The thought of hanging on to the SF commercial fills me with dread, but that may be the only option.
> Thanks all for your suggestions, I'll keep you posted.
> P



The comercial had me wanting to buy a Scout while listening to elevator music. lol


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## peter yetman (Jul 20, 2016)

That's probably autosuggestion, remember those conspiracy theory films from the 70's? There was one about the Phone Company taking over the USA, wish I could remember what it was called. In retrospect it was probaly rubbish, but I'd love to know.
P


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 20, 2016)

peter yetman said:


> *I have no intention to start a Surefire bashing thread, so please observe some discretion when replying, thanks.*





Warp said:


> Surefire customer service is crap (and their lights probably aren't much better)



What peter said. SF threads can go crazy fast. Let's keep this one open.

Bill


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## mk2rocco (Jul 20, 2016)

I have had nothing but good experiences with SF customer support. I have always called and it takes a month or two to get a light back from them.


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## FlashKat (Jul 20, 2016)

I wish Surefire was more customer friendly. I had trouble getting replacement tailcaps for the U2 when they were faulty. I also went to their facility where I waited 30 minutes for a technician to look at one of my U2, because the hotspot had a dark center & the tint was very green. He just said as long as the light works properly that is acceptable QC...I looked at him and said Surefire needs to improve their QC. He just went back to his cubicle.


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## Warp (Jul 21, 2016)

It just took Surefire 9 days to "verify receipt" of a faulty light I sent back to them (back for a second time, the first time they just put it in a different box and sent it back) and send out a replacement.

It was a 5 week turn around to take the faulty light (I emailed them video of the fault), put it in a different box, and send it back still faulty. This will be a 3 week turn around (door to door) to replace the faulty light with a new one (which I hope actually works properly but I am not holding my breathe).

How does it take 5 weeks to put the light in a different box and how does it take 9 days to "verify receipt" and send out a replacement?


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## scs (Jul 21, 2016)

Surefire used to mean something.
It's time to extinguish the new and rekindle the old.


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## ChrisGarrett (Jul 21, 2016)

Warp said:


> It just took Surefire 9 days to "verify receipt" of a faulty light I sent back to them (back for a second time, the first time they just put it in a different box and sent it back) and send out a replacement.
> 
> It was a 5 week turn around to take the faulty light (I emailed them video of the fault), put it in a different box, and send it back still faulty. This will be a 3 week turn around (door to door) to replace the faulty light with a new one (which I hope actually works properly but I am not holding my breathe).
> 
> How does it take 5 weeks to put the light in a different box and how does it take 9 days to "verify receipt" and send out a replacement?



Your mistake is in thinking that you're the only guy in line and that SF lights rarely need fixing.

I'm no SF fanboy and I've read here and over on AR15 dot com, that there are problems with SF lights, as much as any other, but SF customer service is what elevates them above others. Unfortunately for SF and its customers, the days of fat military contracts are mostly over and fast customer service costs money.

Chris


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## Warp (Jul 21, 2016)

ChrisGarrett said:


> Your mistake is in thinking that you're the only guy in line and that SF lights rarely need fixing.
> 
> I'm no SF fanboy and I've read here and over on AR15 dot com, that there are problems with SF lights, as much as any other, but SF customer service is what elevates them above others. Unfortunately for SF and its customers, the days of fat military contracts are mostly over and fast customer service costs money.
> 
> Chris



I'm sure fast customer service does cost money...and I would like to think that very high price tag of Surefire lights can handle that.


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## FlashKat (Jul 21, 2016)

Many American companies still rely on their reputation of being high quality in which customer service is not a priority. These companies will see the consequences once people wake up and see there is better value for the money from companies that care.


Warp said:


> I'm sure fast customer service does cost money...and I would like to think that very high price tag of Surefire lights can handle that.


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## Msf (Aug 1, 2016)

I have several Surefires and when one failed last month, I called the customer service several times. The call back feature was on the fritz and I gave up on on tech support when I was disconnected several times and called customer service. They were very polite and took my information and promised to have tech support call me.

Two weeks later and still waiting. I am disappointed and will likely take my future business elsewhere.


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Aug 1, 2016)

I realize every ones experiences are different, but I had a tech tell me they do not respond to email-ever. I agree they should remove the email contact form, but I also have to say EVERY time I have called, the customer service has been excellent. I have sent 3 lights back for work and been very impressed with their timing and quality of work. Just my experience. I think one phone call would be worth it(Msf-I don't know what happened but I would recommend one more call-there is the possibility the person you spoke with had an emergency and has been off work or even as simple as losing your number. One more call to get your light fixed seems reasonable, but of course the end decision is always yours)...


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## lightfooted (Aug 9, 2016)

What is really crazy though is that this isn't some long dead, resurrected thread from 15-20 years ago. These are all recent, reasonably new experiences with their customer service. 

I am thankful I have never had need to contact them even though I live in the same time zone and only a couple of states away. I work nights and tend to sleep all day during normal business hours. I don't understand how any company who considers themselves innovative or modern can eschew all of the advantages of using this "modern technology" and expect people and other companies to still do business with them. How can they expect to remain in business let alone competitive? Of course I am sure there are many arguments as to whether or not they remain either.

I wonder if it's just a numbers thing where they expect a certain number of failures due to QC and simply don't care to remedy them even to retain customers. You paid them good money for a light that they would have tossed out anyway so they just leave it.

I dunno...I still think they have some great lights, I just can't afford any of their newer ones. I wonder if they care (as a business) if so many of their lights live on after EoL thanks to all of the aftermarket mods out there.


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## peter yetman (Aug 9, 2016)

I do agree that in this day and age an International Company could make an effort to aswer Emails. 
No contact from them yet.
Think I'll strip it down and rebuild it
P


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## bykfixer (Aug 9, 2016)

Sounds like time for one more Malkoff Pete.


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## lightfooted (Aug 9, 2016)

...whoops


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## peter yetman (Aug 9, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Sounds like time for one more Malkoff Pete.


There's a definite itch.
P


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## just like me (Aug 9, 2016)

I'm not sure I understand the detailed yet not exactly specified complaint that customer service is taking too long. It seems perfectly ordinary to me that any RMA for any product might take even 2 months to return a repair or replacement. I understand there are customer service outfits that can turn much around faster. I have seen Apple do turn arounds within days, but Apple has streamlined and optimized their services, and they have the ability to so this. And so what if Apple can do it... it doesn't really reflect on what others are able to do. Hardly any companies I can readily name are as streamlined as Apple in this regard. If I had a Surefire RMA turnaround in three weeks, I'd be mildly shocked, not because of their reputation, but because 6 weeks turnaround seems perfectly ordinary, and I wouldn't even begin to get worried about it until the 8 week mark. 

Where do you guys get your idea that customer service should be fast? Who has spoiled you? Please tell me, I must know!


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## Dave D (Aug 9, 2016)

just like me said:


> Where do you guys get your idea that customer service should be fast? Who has spoiled you? Please tell me, I must know!



I think the point is that the OP emailed SF customer services three weeks ago and hasn't received any response at all, never mind an RMA!!!


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## Str8stroke (Aug 9, 2016)

I have had good luck with SF in the past on a few occasions. Also there now defunct Parts Express was great. I was sad to see it go away. It saddens me to see them possibly now not giving quality after sale service. 

On a Customer Service footnote, I just had to send my Elzetta Alpha back to TN for repairs. It was flickering in Low mode. I read it is possibly a issue with the High/Low switch? I contacted them via the website, I had a response within 24 hrs. Shipped light to them upon their receiving the light it took them 2 days to fix it and send it back to me. Yes, they probably just changed tail caps, but still. All the while they sent confirmation emails. Needless to say, I was not impressed by the light needing repairs, but was impressed with the CS. I did have to pay shipping one way. They even sent it with a fresh CR123 cell. Thought that was a neat touch. 
I say that to say, there still seems to be some good flashlight companies out there. Don't give up hope. lol


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## Warp (Aug 9, 2016)

just like me said:


> Where do you guys get your idea that customer service should be fast? Who has spoiled you? Please tell me, I must know!



Most companies I deal with or would deal with. Flashlight realm, Zebralight and Fenix so far have far outclassed Surefire (product and customer service both)


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 9, 2016)

just like me said:


> Where do you guys get your idea that customer service should be fast? Who has spoiled you? Please tell me, I must know!



You should buy a gun (if you don't already have one,) get into reloading, buy a Dillon reloading press and then have something get lost, break, or get blown up via your own stupidity.

It's already in the mail before you hang up the phone, at no cost whatsoever.

They and SF seem to be similar in that regard, or did.

Chris


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## masakari (Aug 31, 2016)

Bought a new E1D. It came with a single mode head instead of the normal head, and it's not crenelated. Probably the head from a mini Scout.
I called surefire and left my info for a call back. Still haven't received a call, 6 days later.
I called again 2 days later and got someone. They told me to email pictures. I did, and haven't received a response. 
I called again, and have been on hold for 2.5 hours. What the hell is going on? How can they possibly be so busy that they can't answer the phone for 2.5 hours, can't call back, and can't email? I just want to send it in for replacement!
In the past, their customer service has always been great to me. I don't understand what is happening now.


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## WDR65 (Aug 31, 2016)

I called Surefire the week before last and was connected with someone in customer service within ten minutes. I just had a quick question, but every time I've used them in the past for actual issues they've responded quickly and fixed the problem. I don't trust email for anything like that, though I realize being overseas makes that a bit more complicated.


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## bykfixer (Sep 3, 2016)

I think time of day matters too.

I called them on my lunch break on a Monday (noon east coast) and after waiting 30 minutes "for the next available rep" it dawned on me that I was calling them first thing Monday morning their time. 

I called 'em back at 5:30 the next day (2:30 their time) and got through quickly.


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## peter yetman (Sep 3, 2016)

Well, I'm glad you guys at least are able to get a response. You are the target market after all. Still trying to get the head off my P3X, and it ain't giving in. I've done it to 3 P2Xs so it's only a matter of time. Just put an overdriven Nichia in one of them - pretty good.
P


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## Coolhand68 (Jan 21, 2017)

Last year I called them to get an RMA for a light that had a really bad green tint. Spent an hour on hold, only to have a representative ask me over and over again what I meant by green tint, as though I was the first customer to ever complain about this. When I finally convinced him to accept it and got the RMA, it took about a month to get a replacement light. The replacement light has the exact same ugly tint, so obviously no one took the time to look at what I sent in and what was being sent back to me. 

I'm honestly tired of the Surefire tint lottery. It's been 50/50 in recent years. I purchase a Surefire and cross my fingers that I'll get one without some ugly tint or rings in the beam. Consistency isn't a top priority, perhaps the emphasis is to keep large purchases happy (military/law enforcement contracts?) and not worry about the occasional OCD customer who hunts his walls with flashlights. I know, it may sound somewhat petty, but for those of us who collect lights, beam tint matters. I'm also not crazy about the actual body color lottery of green or grey or a mix of both in one light. Can't tell you how many LX2s I've had that had a mish-mash of green and grey parts put together, new out of the box. Unfortunately I don't have a location nearby where I can try out the light I want to buy first.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 21, 2017)

Type in Surefire color tint into the google search box at the top of this page. wealth of info available there.

Bill


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## P_A_S_1 (Jan 21, 2017)

I thought I saw something on the SF website about a 30 day satisfaction warranty. IDK the details or if tint issues are covered but check it out, might make purchase decisions easier.


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## just like me (Jan 22, 2017)

I think this thread should be kept alive with as many shared anacdotal customer service experiences as possible. I have learned a little more about Surefire: 500 employees, massive government contracts. How many customer service representatives do you think Surefire has employed, how big is that department in a company of 500? 

I have worked in customer service, and it all comes down to individuals, and especially the experience of the managers (unlike in most tech spaces where managers are more or less dead weight). Customer service can be very streamlined even in a small company, like the startup software company I worked for... but when I left, half the employees worked in customer service, because most of the developers were laid off after the 1.0 revision was completed and released. This is untasteful, but ordinary and often necessary in software startups, which must stretch their capital investments until something turns a profit, and which is a completely different animal to manufacturing physical machines (if we can agree that a flashlight is a machine). 

Just looking at the size of the Surefire customer base, I would estimate that a good, functional customer service department would need at least 500 employees just in customer service. I bet Surefire has far less than 50 individuals employed as customer service. 

At some point, successful private companies outgrow their britches and need to go public to support their customer base, but I could only speculate why Surefire has remained a privately owned company. The answer would not be as simple as greed, because a company like Surefire going public would instantly make the owners filthy rich beyond anyone's dreams, as well as make every current employee independently weathy. Even the part-time masseuses at Google retired to independent wealth when Google went public. A reason to stay private might be that the US Government required Surefire to in order to keep military technology in the US. But this is just wild speculation on my part.


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## scout24 (Jan 22, 2017)

Maybe, just maybe, they want to stay private to stay true to their visions and make the products they see fit to rather than have to answer to shareholders and bean counters. 

Edit- Also, just speculation on my part...


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## dc38 (Jan 22, 2017)

scout24 said:


> Maybe, just maybe, they want to stay private to stay true to their visions and make the products they see fit to rather than have to answer to shareholders and bean counters.
> 
> Edit- Also, just speculation on my part...



Hahaha, good one! I have only ever needed to deal with aurefire's CS once...and it was great. Tesponse within 48 hours, problem resolved. 

About the "500 employee" statement...is this verified? I can only imagine that a majority of them are production workers, with a handful of sales reps thrown in. The remainder would be office workers, such as designers and customer support and post sales.

That being said...here is my guess: 15-25 machine operators, 60-80 assembly/qc testing, 5-10 post sales, 5-10 business liaisons (sales reps), 5-10 shipping and receiving, 4-7 buyer/planners, 5-10 designers.

*per production facility


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## just like me (Jan 22, 2017)

scout24 said:


> Maybe, just maybe, they want to stay private to stay true to their visions and make the products they see fit to rather than have to answer to shareholders and bean counters.





dc38 said:


> Hahaha, good one!



Actually... I think that is a very good reason, if not the actual reason for remaining private. John Matthews, co-founder and current CEO _and_ president, has been in place since the beginning, and that kind dedication lends credence to the idea of keeping the control in-house, because he has not needed to work for some time. 



dc38 said:


> About the "500 employee" statement...is this verified?



The figure is according to wikipedia, though it says 2007, so it may be outdated.




dc38 said:


> I can only imagine that a majority of them are production workers, with a handful of sales reps thrown in. The remainder would be office workers, such as designers and customer support and post sales.
> 
> That being said...here is my guess: 15-25 machine operators, 60-80 assembly/qc testing, 5-10 post sales, 5-10 business liaisons (sales reps), 5-10 shipping and receiving, 4-7 buyer/planners, 5-10 designers.
> 
> *per production facility



Not a bad guess! Good work. That sort of paints a picture for me.


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## bigfoot (Jan 27, 2017)

Hate to say it, but I've noticed what feels like a slowdown for SureFire, too. Everything from e-mail response (or lack thereof), to time spent on hold, and even turnaround. I'm sure the dwindling government contracts and layoffs in 2015 have plenty to do with it. Without a doubt, the remaining CS folks are probably overwhelmed, and the warranty folks buried in repair work.


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## Mikeg23 (Jan 29, 2017)

I called surefire just three days ago about a switch issue and got the same great service a that I've had in the past. It had been years since I've called but it was the same type of interaction as before.

I checked for their local time before calling and did have to wait on hold for a little bit. I have never tried emailing them...


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## the0dore3524 (Jan 30, 2018)

I emailed SureFire about a faulty switch on my LX2. Took about three weeks to get a response, but a new one is on its way. We’ll see when it actually arrives; that being said I haven’t had an issue with SureFire CS yet.


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