# ORACLE 24W HID Flashlight



## Richie086

Hi folks,

I'm sure you recall I recently purchased a 9" 24w HID from Tactical HID, one of the newer dealers here on the forum. I love it and it's a keeper for sure.

Several days ago I made a new contact with another retailer called, Advanced Automotive Concepts, a brick & morter located in Los Angeles, and marketing their version of the same 24w HID under the name, Oracle 24X-9 Xenon Flashlight. 

My review here is likely the most comprehensive review you'll find to date on this HID. Unless I'm mistaken, this line of HID flashlights is a new venture for this retailer and was just released by them merely days ago. So nothing of relevance has actually been written about it. If you do a search for this flashlight, you'll only come up with some posts from the retailer advertising in numerous forums and vague comments from buyers.

This version, although looks the same as the Tactical HID and has all the same features, it boasts a few extras noted below:

_4300k Bulb (Update: After further testing, indications are the color temp may be 5000k+)_
_2200 mAh _Lithium-Ion Battery (3x 18560)
_Phosphorescent Bezel Ring_
_Full One Year Warranty in Writing_
_Brand Name Plaque on Case (Single Side Only)_
_Brand Name on Flashlight Flat Grip_
_Price - $149.00 + $8.00 UPS Ground Shipping_


Obviously the one feature that's important here is the 4300k bulb, which I was guaranteed in writing it would have. From the ceiling bounce photos below, clearly it has a much warmer beam than my other 24w. Whether it's 4300k, I can't say, but I've been leaning more towards 5000k. However, it's sure warmer looking to my eye and much warmer looking than beam shots I've seen of the Wolf Eyes-Boxer 24w, which is twice the price.

The only visible difference between the bulbs in the two otherwise identical flashlights is the Oracle bulb has a thin return-wire and the Tactical HID has an insulated return-wire. The following photos speak for themselves, but you know I just can't resist and have to add my captions.









Came with the same nice lockable case, only this manufacturer
puts their brand name on it. Great touch and looks excellent.









No instructions came with this brand, but it did
come with the warranty card, Advanced Automotive 
Concepts full catalog, several Oracle Lighting
Technology stickers, several brochures, and business
cards.









The brand name neatly stamped on the flat of the grip. 











A ceiling bounce showing the color temp. The left is the Oracle 24w 
and the right is the Tactical HID 24w. 











This is a really interesting beam shot for comparison. From left to right;
AE Xenide 25w, Oracle 24w, Tactical HID 24w. Also, the Oracle
and Tactical flashlights clearly have different beams. Each flashlight is 
adjusted to have the tighest beam each can produce. The Oracle has
a hot spot slightly larger than the AEX-25, and cleaner and more defined
than the Tactical HID.











The Oracle on the left and Tactical HID on the right. The Oracle also 
comes with the phosphorescent bezel ring as seen in the photo.


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## NeSSuS-GTE

Excellent info, my friend! Your review is much appreciated. :thumbsup:

Looks like improvements are continuing to be made. This is good news!


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## AlexGT

Also the reflector on the oracle seems brighter than the other one


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## Richie086

AlexGT said:


> Also the reflector on the oracle seems brighter than the other one


 

Hi Alex,

Yes, it does have a higher luster to it.


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## dudemar

It's hard to tell by photos alone, but I get the feeling I like the Oracle's color temperature a lot. Very warm, but I'd have to see it in person in order to judge whether it's 4300K. It appears the Tactical HID has insulation on the return wire, thus giving it a thicker look.



I do have a few questions:

-Is it possible to give us an idea of what the different price ranges offer?

-About how long does it take to get to full brightness?

-...and of course, how much was the unit you tested?



Very cool review BTW, Thanks!lovecpf Now you've tempted me to buy one, but I have to save my money.


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## Patriot

Holy cow! This is big news since it's the only compact aluminum HID light utilizing a 4300K bulb. I have to say, I'm impressed with the pics of the light and the beamshots. Thanks for showing this to us.


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## Richie086

Hi,

It's really cold here, but my wife was able to hold the Oracle and the Tactical HID long enough for me to snap this one photo. 







Tactical HID 24w on the left, Oracle 24w 4300k on the right at 30 yards. 
I know HID's are not that efficient below 30w-35w. It sometimes looks
5000k to me, but clearly the Oracle has a better and brighter hot spot.

Regardless what the color temp actually is, I'm loving both these HID's
and they'll remain a permanent part of my collection. I'll have to assemble
another lanyard for it.


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## Parker VH

Thanks for the review Richie. You better watch out or you're going to have to add another line to your signature with all the lights you're buying:twothumbs. I'd like to try the Oracle beside my Xenide 20W. If anyone else does this comparison please post pics.


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## Richie086

dudemar said:


> I do have a few questions:
> 
> -Is it possible to give us an idea of what the different price ranges offer?
> 
> -About how long does it take to get to full brightness?
> 
> -...and of course, how much was the unit you tested?


 

Hi Dudemar,

The price of $149.00 was a short time special they had on some other automotive forum. The regular price this retailer is shooting for is $279.00, which I don't think will fly to well these days. When I tried to purchased mine the sale price was over. I contacted them from their website and asked for the sale price and received it without a problem. The regular price was to expensive for me and I wouldn't have purchased it. 

Here is the direct link to their website showing exact units simply with different prices. Just disregard the specs for it. Clearly they are way out of line and why I was a bit concerned as to exactly what I was going to receive. I paid $149.00 and went for the more expensive 3 day UPS shipping for $24.67, totaling $173.67. The ground shipping was only about $8.00, but I wanted it faster than 8-10 days. I made that mistake with my AEX-25 and I'll never do it again.

*[advertising link removed - DM51]*

In spite of the exaggerated specs and runtime, the seller came through with everything promised including on time delivery. As for time to full brightness, about 2 seconds longer than my AE Xenide 25w. More than adequate IMHO.


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## Richie086

Parker VH said:


> Thanks for the review Richie. You better watch out or you're going to have to add another line to your signature with all the lights you're buying:twothumbs.


 

ROFL Bob :laughing: This is the last flashlight for me for a while. Damn, I actually need a diving light to do some scuba diving with my friend here on Long Island this summer. Okay, just one more in the coming months...LOL


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## BVH

Thanks Richie! Sure looks like it's a lot lower color temp than 6000K. I went ahead and ordered one - the "forum special" for the $149.00 price. I signed back in and viewed my order and it has an order number so I think it went through. Even if it's 5000K, it will be a vast improvement over anything else in this configuration that's out there. I really love the color of my original Costco HID @ 5000K. Great find!


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## Richie086

BVH said:


> I went ahead and ordered one - the "forum special" for the $149.00 price. I signed back in and viewed my order and it has an order number so I think it went through. Even if it's 5000K, it will be a vast improvement over anything else in this configuration that's out there. I really love the color of my original Costco HID @ 5000K. Great find!


 

Hey BVH,

That's excellent :thumbsup: I'm glad someone ordered one here with much more experience than I have to evaluate it better. Yep, if it accepted the order, you're good to go. 

I also contacted them asking them to apply for a dealership here on the forum. Should be interesting.


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## Phaserburn

I have the 25W Xenide; how does the Oracle compare for total output and throw?

I'm assuming the smaller Oracle has 3x18650s instead of the Xenide's 6?


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## Patriot

Phaserburn said:


> I have the 25W Xenide; how does the Oracle compare for total output and throw?
> 
> I'm assuming the smaller Oracle has 3x18650s instead of the Xenide's 6?




Judging from the pics the output is similar but it's not going to throw quite like the Xenide. It's a "given" considering the OP reflector.


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## Richie086

Patriot36 said:


> Judging from the pics the output is similar but it's not going to throw quite like the Xenide. It's a "given" considering the OP reflector.


 

I agree 100% Patriot. The AEX-25 can't be compared to an OP reflector type 24w. Not to mention the Xenide series of HID's has double the battery power rather than just 3x18650s. Also, the AEX-25 was only included in the photos to show color temp comparison, and not meant as a comparison in any other way. 

Hey PhaserBurn...the one feature this Oracle has, which took me totally by surprise, was last night I was taking quite a long time to set up the ceiling bounce shots between the AEX-25, Oracle, and Tactical HID in order to show the difference in color temp. All three flashlights were starting to get pretty hot just sitting on the floor standing on their tail caps for nearly 40 minutes. Suddenly the Oracle turned off. I figured the battery died a bit sooner than the 50 minutes it should have run for, so some cycling I thought was in order here to get battery capacity up a bit more. 

I tried to turn on the battery LED's and they didn't work. Using my multi-meter, the battery had absolutely NO volts whatsoever, and I did manipulate the On/Off switch to confirm the battery was on. I had forgotten to turn the LED switch off, and after about 2 minutes, the LEDs came on. I then checked the volts again with my multi-meter and now it read 9.25 volts (fully charged is 12.15 volts) The point I'm trying to make here is that apparently the Oracle battery seems to have some sort of Thermal-shutoff or "Cutoff" preventing it from overheating. There is no other explanation I can think of as to why the battery completly shut down as it did. 

I was very happy about this, and I don't think the retailers are aware of such a wonderful safely feature built into the battery, not to mention it actually performed its job perfectly. 

Whether the AEX-25 or the Tactical HID have this feature, I don't know, but as I said before, all 3 HID's got pretty darn hot by the time I was finished taking the photos in my house. I should also point out that as far as I know, these Oracle flashlights were recently built and are about as fresh as you can get. So perhaps this is some type of new safely feature, and a very welcome one at that.

If anyone has an opinion on this, please post it.


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## dudemar

Richie086 said:


> The point I'm trying to make here is that apparently the Oracle battery seems to have some sort of Thermal-shutoff or "Cutoff" preventing it from overheating. There is no other explanation I can think of as to why the battery completly shut down as it did.



It's very possible a thermal cut-off was engaged. Very handy feature.:thumbsup:


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## Patriot

Richie086 said:


> I then checked the volts again with my multi-meter and now it read 9.25 volts (fully charged is 12.15 volts) The point I'm trying to make here is that apparently the Oracle battery seems to have some sort of Thermal-shutoff or "Cutoff" preventing it from overheating. There is no other explanation I can think of as to why the battery completly shut down as it did.
> 
> I was very happy about this, and I don't think the retailers are aware of such a wonderful safely feature built into the battery, not to mention it actually performed its job perfectly.




More than likely the light shut off due to low voltage since 9.25V static is very low. Li-ion should never drop below 3.0V per cell at any time. The light probably shut off when the pack hit 9.0V and then bounced back slightly after the load was off. It's possible that it dropped below 9.0V but lets hope that's not the case since that will take it's toll on the batteries over time and it's also potentially dangerous upon recharging the cells.


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## Richie086

Patriot36 said:


> More than likely the light shut off due to low voltage since 9.25V static is very low. Li-ion should never drop below 3.0V per cell at any time. The light probably shut off when the pack hit 9.0V and then bounced back slightly after the load was off. It's possible that it dropped below 9.0V but lets hope that's not the case since that will take it's toll on the batteries over time and it's also potentially dangerous upon recharging the cells.


 

Hey there Patriot,

Unless I'm making a runtime test on one of my HID's, I don't normally keep track of how long it's actually been running or how much power is left in the batteries. Even on my AEX, I depend on the automatic shutoff to tell me it's time for a recharge when I've been using it for an extended amount of time. 

The other reason I felt the Oracle must have a thermal cut-off was because the several times my Tactical HID turned off due to low battery power, the emergency LED's always worked, which I thought is exactly the situation when they'd be needed. Or more specifically, that is actually their purpose.

That's the reason I felt some type of thermal breaker shut the battery pack down as it did. Now I'm scratching my head on this one. :shrug:


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## dudemar

It's hard to say exactly what it is, unless the manufacturer discloses a thermal cutoff or it was confirmed by taking apart the battery.

I'm betting on the thermal cut-off, but Pat36 could be right as well.


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## Patriot

I sometimes run my HID's until they turn off also. This it ok as long as they're designed to shut off before draining an individual cell below 3.0V or 9.0V for the pack. This appears to be exactly what occurred. 

If the light shut off due to thermal reasons it would switch back on and run for the remaining 10 minutes after letting it cool down. Since Richie's battery pack was at 9.25V static, that means that it was at 9.0V or less under load. At 9.25V there isn't enough remaining capacity to start and run the light for 2 minutes never mind 10 more minutes. 

Also, it's not surprising that the LED still worked after the HID lamp shut off. Those little LEDs put next to zero load on those 3 18650's. They could be powered for dozens of hours still.


Richie, if you perform a run-time test I think you'll find that the same thing occurs whether it's tailstanding on the floor in your house or sitting out on a chilly patio table. Judging from the output 40-45 minutes is probably just about right for this light on those batteries. The Wolf Eyes Boxer 24W ran for about 50 minutes on the same batteries and this light seems to be noticeably brighter.


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## larryk

Thank you for taking the time for your great review.
I just ordered one also.


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## Richie086

Patriot36 said:


> I sometimes run my HID's until they turn off also. This it ok as long as they're designed to shut off before draining an individual cell below 3.0V or 9.0V for the pack. This appears to be exactly what occurred.


 
Hi Patriot, unless someone here is willing to risk voiding their full year unconditional warranty with this flashlight and take it apart to see exactly what circuitry or safety features exist inside the battery, I suppose I shouldn't run any of my HID's down that far anymore. I just assumed it was good for the batteries to always cycle them that way. I think I need to get Ni-Cad and Ni-MH batteries out of my head...LOL. 





larryk said:


> Thank you for taking the time for your great review.
> I just ordered one also.


 
Way to go, Larry :thumbsup:


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## Phaserburn

I know that AE lights uses matched, high quality li-ion cells in their battery packs, similar to laptop makers. I am wary when group charging some other packs, as they may develop issues when charged in series. Others may want to chime in on this...

If this light uses good packs, it looks great.


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## Richie086

It looks like after running the Oracle through a few charging cycles, the fully charged static voltage has been going steadily up from 12.15 volts to now 12.24 volts, and it's been off the charger for 14 hours now. That 12.24 volts is starting to approach the static voltage of my AEX-25.

I didn't know 18650 3.7 volts battereis can get as high as 4.08 volts.


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## BVH

IIRC, I think Li-Ions are max'd at 4.2 and Li-Poly at 4.1 or vice-versa. Although my Schulze terminates charging of my 4-cell Li-Poly pack at about 16.65.


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## Phaserburn

Richie086 said:


> It looks like after running the Oracle through a few charging cycles, the fully charged static voltage has been going steadily up from 12.15 volts to now 12.24 volts, and it's been off the charger for 14 hours now. That 12.24 volts is starting to approach the static voltage of my AEX-25.
> 
> I didn't know 18650 3.7 volts battereis can get as high as 4.08 volts.


 
Actually, a li-ion cell is fully charged at 4.2V ea. 3 in series could read as high as 12.6V. Over 12.6 means that the cells are being charged too high.


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## Patriot

4.2V per cell is fine for both Li-ion and li-po. 12.24V is on the slightly low side for that pack and it seems that it's undercharging a little bit. That pack should charge to around 12.50-12.60V and also also explains why the run-time is slightly less than ancticipated. 




Quote:
Originally Posted by *Patriot36* 

 
_I sometimes run my HID's until they turn off also. This it ok as long as they're designed to shut off before draining an individual cell below 3.0V or 9.0V for the pack. This appears to be exactly what occurred._




> *Richie086*
> Hi Patriot, unless someone here is willing to risk voiding their full year unconditional warranty with this flashlight and take it apart to see exactly what circuitry or safety features exist inside the battery, I suppose I shouldn't run any of my HID's down that far anymore. I just assumed it was good for the batteries to always cycle them that way. I think I need to get Ni-Cad and Ni-MH batteries out of my head...LOL.


Hey there Richie, When I made the comment saying that "this appears to be exactly what occurred" I was just trying to convey that I believe the light acted properly. Since the light shut off close to 9.0V that means that the circuitry was taking the batteries right down to the minimum before shutting off the light. I was only mentioning this specifically since we were discussing thermal shut off which I don't believe occurred. 

And yeah, no reason that you'd have to run the light until it shut off unless you really wanted to. No memory issues with li-ion as you know.


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## Richie086

Patriot36 said:


> 4.2V per cell is fine for both Li-ion and li-po. 12.24V is on the slightly low side for that pack and it seems that it's undercharging a little bit. That pack should charge to around 12.50-12.60V and also also explains why the run-time is slightly less than ancticipated.


 

Hey Patriot,

I really appreciate all your comments and everyone else's too that have replied here. Perhaps when BVH and LarryK receive their Oracle's, we'll be able to get some specific answers to some of the battery questions.

Also, if the batteries in all my HID's are being undercharged, and I have to agree they seem to be from my volt readings, I myself am to blame for it. 

Aside from my POB HID's, this is the first time I've dealt with Li-ion batteries and why I actually baby-sit them while charging. I also remove them immediately from the charger as soon as the "green" light comes on out of fear of over-charging or something worse happening, whether it's my AEX-25 or the other two.

One thing I can say is the chargers for them are inputting the correct voltage. Perhaps I need to determine, using a multi-meter, exactly how long each needs to be left on the charger after "green" to get the batteries properly topped off. 

As it stands now, the following are the maximum runtimes experienced with my 3 newest HID's:


AEX-25 w/4800 mAh battery - 2 hrs. 2 minutes
Oracle 24 w/2200 mAh battery - 40 minutes
Tactical HID w/2200 mAh battery - 50 minutes

At least from my instruction manual that came with the AEX, if the overcharge protection on the battery kicks in, it explains how to re-enable the battery. So at least it won't have to go back to the manufacturer for repair.


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## Patriot

Richie086 said:


> Hey Patriot,
> 
> 
> 
> Also, if the batteries in all my HID's are being undercharged, and I have to agree they seem to be from my volt readings, I myself am to blame for it.



Depending on the charger, it might not be your fault at all. Most of the decent quality chargers will automatically stop charging once the green light is displayed. I don't think that I own any li-ion light chargers that continue charging after they've indicated finished. In these cases it would mean that the charging circuit has not been calibrated to take full advantage of the voltage and capacity of the battery/pack. In order to get a full charge you'd have to take the cells out and top-off charge them individually but with most of these packs that's not possible since it's a closed pack. In short, the charging circuit should just work properly and charge to at least 4.1V per cell and no less. 




> Aside from my POB HID's, this is the first time I've dealt with Li-ion batteries and why I actually baby-sit them while charging. I also remove them immediately from the charger as soon as the "green" light comes on out of fear of over-charging or something worse happening, whether it's my AEX-25 or the other two.


You might be correct about the AE lights. I've heard that some people who have left the batteries charging for and excessively long time have had to "reset" the light. At least the manual has instructions about how to do so. Thanks AE! :thumbsup:




> One thing I can say is the chargers for them are inputting the correct voltage. Perhaps I need to determine, using a multi-meter, exactly how long each needs to be left on the charger after "green" to get the batteries properly topped off.


Sure, if the charger continues to send voltage even after it's indicating a full charge, that would work but would be kind a cumbersome. Again, any decent charging arrangment should be charging the cells to a proper full charge of between 4.1-4.2V.




> As it stands now, the following are the maximum runtimes experienced with my 3 newest HID's:
> 
> 
> AEX-25 w/4800 mAh battery - 2 hrs. 2 minutes
> Oracle 24 w/2200 mAh battery - 40 minutes
> Tactical HID w/2200 mAh battery - 50 minutes


Just one of the reasons that I love my Xenide!


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## Richie086

*Re: TACTICAL HID 24W / ORACLE 24W BATTERY CHARGING*

Hey folks,

I came up with some important new charging information for the Tactical HID 24w and Oracle 24w HID's that I really felt I should start a new thread to make sure those that have them or will be getting them will be aware of this. If anyone thinks I should do it, please let me know. 

Last night I decided to charge both of these flashlights with their own chargers and a volt meter connected to the battery contacts so I can actually see what is actually occurring once the *"green"* charged light comes on. Keep in mind these flashlights must be made by the same manufacturer in China and are exact down the chargers too. The chargers have a rated output of 12.6 volts @ 1200 mA. 




*Oracle 24X-9* 

The *"green"* charge light came on at about 12.37 volts after less than 3 hours. Normally I would have taken it off the charger as I've been told to do with HID's. However, this time I didn't. It required another 3 hours and actually reached and stayed at exactly 12.60 volts. I believe the charger was actually topped out and it was not able to allow the battery to go any higher and was simply maintaining the battery at that voltage. I saw no indication the charger had actually stopped inputting voltage, just inputting all it could. The charger was left connected the entire night holding the batteries at 4.2 volts each or 12.6 volts. Charger and battery pack were completely cold to the touch in the morning. 

NOTE: Runtime now up from 40 minutes to 45 minutes runtime. The battery still requires two or three more cycles to reach maximum runtime.




*Tactical HID 24W*

Since the charger is the same as the Oracle, most was the same as the Oracle charging except the Tactical HID charger would top out at 12.50 volts and was left on all night long. I decided to remove that charger and use the charger that came with the Oracle and within about 20 minutes, the Tactical battery was up to 12.6 volts too. 

Obviously there is a slight variation in output from charger to charger but I would not go as far as saying it's a quality control issue due to how slight it is. I'm sure the difference in output is simply what may be considered an acceptable (+) or (-) % thing.

Here's the kicker now. My TACTICAL HID battery has been cycled at least 7 times now. Runtime for it has gone from the following, 45m, 50m, to now 61 FULL minutes of runtime :twothumbs which I think is pretty excellent and likely the limit for 3x 18650's. That may actually put runtime in the neighborhood of a Wolf-Eyes Boxer 24w costing twice the price. I'd say the internal parts used in these flashlights are of excellent quality for runtime like that on a 2200 mAh battery pack. Way to go TACTICAL HID and Oracle :thumbsup:

Lastly, I have no doubt the Oracle will soon match the TACTICAL HID's runtime with several more cycles of the battery. The factory instructions from China also state it's fine to leave these batteries on the charger for up to 24 hours, which I've proved to be just fine, although I'll do that with great caution. 

*I'm happy all this came up on this thread because I'm sure the retailers and consumers are not aware of this charging method since I myself have never heard a word of this anywhere. Still, should anyone try to duplicate my findings, PLEASE verify leaving the battery on the charger for extended amounts of time using a multi-meter and with caution.*


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## BVH

Richie, I don't think you need a new thread for this. I actually think it's better to leave it here, all in one place. This is great info! It looks like the charger goes into top-off mode and then goes into a maint./trickle mode to maintain. The top off is a nice and slow process which is a plus. Thanks for doing all of this for us future owners!


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## Phaserburn

Interesting. Ok. Li-ion cells should NOT be trickle charged once they reach 4.2V. The charge should be terminated, or the voltage will continue to rise. Really, only nicads and SLA should be left on infinite/trickle/floater charge.

The question is, does the charger(s) continue to charge after the battery reaches 4.2V each? If so, overcharging would be possible after additional hours, which is very bad for li-ion cells.


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## BVH

In thinking about it again, maybe after the top-off, Richie is just reading the charged battery voltage, and the charger is not actually issuing any voltage?


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## Richie086

Phaserburn said:


> The question is, does the charger(s) continue to charge after the battery reaches 4.2V each? If so, overcharging would be possible after additional hours, which is very bad for li-ion cells.


 





Richie086 said:


> I believe the charger was actually topped out and it was not able to allow the battery to go any higher and was simply maintaining the battery at that voltage. I saw no indication the charger had actually stopped inputting voltage, just inputting all it could. The charger was left connected the entire night holding the batteries at 4.2 volts each or 12.6 volts. Charger and battery pack were completely cold to the touch in the morning.


 
Hi PhaserBurn,

The above quote is the closest I can come to answering your question, which was simply my opinion as to what may have been going on with the charging. Until BVH or LarryK receive their Oracles, we'll have to wait to see what more experienced members in this area actually figure out what the charger is doing. 

I can only repeat the batteries were on the chargers all night long, which seems to be approved by the Chinese manufacurer. However, they don't want you to exceed 24 hrs on the charger. They also state on the battery pack itself not to exceed an input voltage of 12.6v (+) or (-) 0.03v. I hope this helps.


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## MIKES250R

Thanks Richie. Just what I need-another flashlight. I pulled the trigger and ordered online and got the discounted price. It went thru no problem. After seeing that nice warm temp I could not resist. It will be interesting to see how it compares to my 10 watt Microfire which has a Welsch Allyn 5000K bulb. The Microfire is my favorite HID spotlight as it has great throw and toasty incandescent-like output plus it will run for around two hours on full charge. I also have a 24 watt AE clone and a pos I mean pob sams 35 watter. By the way is the beam adjustable from flood to spot? Send us some more pics, beamshots anything.

Mike


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## Richie086

MIKES250R said:


> Thanks Richie. Just what I need-another flashlight. I pulled the trigger and ordered online and got the discounted price. It went thru no problem. After seeing that nice warm temp I could not resist. It will be interesting to see how it compares to my 10 watt Microfire which has a Welsch Allyn 5000K bulb. The Microfire is my favorite HID spotlight as it has great throw and toasty incandescent-like output plus it will run for around two hours on full charge. I also have a 24 watt AE clone and a pos I mean pob sams 35 watter. By the way is the beam adjustable from flood to spot? Send us some more pics, beamshots anything.
> 
> Mike


 



Hi Mike,

Thanks ...ROFL, you're not the only one with that problem. 

You know, very soon I'm going to put together a video to show new members what happens soon after joining this forum. I'm actually going to show the flashlights I had, thinking they were great, to what I've accumilated now. If anything, it should be good for a laugh or two.

As for the Oracle, yes, it has an adjustable beam from a pretty good spot to flood. It's one of the better features of the Tactical HID and the Oracle, not needing to install a diffuser bezel. 

Although the Oracle has an OP reflector and I assume the AE clone is smooth, I'd still love to see beam shots comparing them. I assume it's a clone of the Powerlight and not the Xenide. Either way, please try to post some beam photos.

Sorry, the only out door beam shots I have of my Oracle have been posted already. I'll try to get some new ones within a day or so. Good luck with the Oracle. I think that should make a total of 4 of us that will have one.

Make sure you read back a few posts about battery charging :thumbsup:


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## Patriot

MIKES250R said:


> It will be interesting to see how it compares to my 10 watt Microfire which has a Welsch Allyn 5000K bulb.
> Mike




Really? I didn't know that WA made 5000K HID bulb or that Microfire was using them. I've only seen the 6500K 10 & 14W types offered. Can you link me to the 5000K bulbs since I'd be very interested if they're actually available. 

Thanks


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## MIKES250R

Here ya go. I sure have enjoyed mine. I am looking forward to the Oracle as far as I know there are no other 24 watt HIDs with a color temp that low. 

Mike

http://www.phoebustactical.com/MicroFire_Warrior_Rechargeable_HID_Flashlight_p/pk-500r.htm


----------



## Richie086

MIKES250R said:


> Here ya go. I sure have enjoyed mine. I am looking forward to the Oracle as far as I know there are no other 24 watt HIDs with a color temp that low.
> 
> Mike
> 
> http://www.phoebustactical.com/MicroFire_Warrior_Rechargeable_HID_Flashlight_p/pk-500r.htm


 

I have a thing for the smaller compact size of the 24w and below HID's. I do like the adjustable beam and compact size of this MicroFire, but I was taken back by the extremely high price. Aside from that, if it was more resonably priced, and a much warmer color temp, this would be an HID I'd like to have, especially since I am considering adding a 10w or 15W HID to my collection. 

I think we'd all love to see some beam shots of this one. Thanks Mike for the link.


----------



## Patriot

MIKES250R said:


> Here ya go. I sure have enjoyed mine. I am looking forward to the Oracle as far as I know there are no other 24 watt HIDs with a color temp that low.
> 
> Mike
> 
> http://www.phoebustactical.com/MicroFire_Warrior_Rechargeable_HID_Flashlight_p/pk-500r.htm





That's a 7000 Kelvin bulb. Big difference between that and 5000K but ya did have my hopes up for a few moments.


----------



## MIKES250R

You're right it does say 7000k which makes me wonder why it is so much warmer than the 24 watt clone I have or the pob. I need to try my hand again at some night time beam shots. I'm not a big photography buff and soon discovered how very difficult it is to achieve good photos taken at night. It is especiallly difficult to take pictures by yourself-my wife thinks I am nuts. Didn't the 10 watt Saint have a 5000k? Now I am even more anxious to get the Oracle and see how it compares to the Microfire.

Mike


----------



## Richie086

MIKES250R said:


> You're right it does say 7000k which makes me wonder why it is so much warmer than the 24 watt clone I have or the pob.
> Mike


 

Mike,

I think you mean, "why it's so much COOLER than the 24w clone or the POB" correct? Warmer would mean whiter in color and cooler would mean more blue in color. 

I'd love to see beam shots of both the Oracle and your 10w HID. Perhaps you can get a friend to give you a hand.


----------



## Patriot

MIKES250R said:


> You're right it does say 7000k which makes me wonder why it is so much warmer than the 24 watt clone I have or the pob. I need to try my hand again at some night time beam shots. I'm not a big photography buff and soon discovered how very difficult it is to achieve good photos taken at night. It is especiallly difficult to take pictures by yourself-my wife thinks I am nuts. Didn't the 10 watt Saint have a 5000k? Now I am even more anxious to get the Oracle and see how it compares to the Microfire.
> 
> Mike




The 10W Saint also had a cooler 6000+K bulb. I just spent some time on WA's site looking for warm 5000K bulbs and couldn't find any. Like Richie stated, cooler means more bluish and is typically 6000K and higher. Warmer would be considered white/yellowish at 5000K and lower.


----------



## MIKES250R

No I mean warmer. The Microfire is more yellow like an incandescent. The 24 watter is more blue almost purple in hue by comparison.

Mike


----------



## MIKES250R

The new 10watt Microfire says it has a 5200K bulb check this out:

http://light-reviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=438

Maybe I lucked up and got one of the newer bulbs?


----------



## Richie086

MIKES250R said:


> The new 10watt Microfire says it has a 5200K bulb check this out:
> 
> http://light-reviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=438
> 
> Maybe I lucked up and got one of the newer bulbs?


 
Hey Mike,

Sorry, I was wrong and you were correct.


----------



## MIKES250R

Hey nobody is wrong and nobody is right. I clearly am an enthusastic amateur and have lots to learn about lighting. All I know is I am a flashlihght freak and have been my whole life. I can't wait to get my new toy!


----------



## Richie086

MIKES250R said:


> Hey nobody is wrong and nobody is right. I clearly am an enthusastic amateur and have lots to learn about lighting. All I know is I am a flashlihght freak and have been my whole life. I can't wait to get my new toy!


 

Way to go, Mike :thumbsup:

From the original link above, it appears the MicroFire Warrior 7.5" long 10w and Warrior ll 24w use the same internals including the battery given the weight is the same only runtime drops quite a bit. I say this because if a heavier duty ballast were used, I'd assume it would be slightly heavier in weight. What is really impressive is the Warrior lll 35w at only 10" long. 

I'm going to have to take a long second look at this brand in spite of the very high price. If the bulbs are much warmer for 2009, either the 10w or 35w will be on my wish list (35w :twothumbs)

Time to do a search on the forum for beam shots of any or all of these.


----------



## ampdude

*THANK YOU FLASHLIGHT GODS*

I've been waiting for the day of the 4200K handheld HID to finally arrive and it is here! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

No more of this 6000K+ crap! 

That's a nice improvement by Microfire as well! But they can do better than 5200K.. especially in their price range.


----------



## gchronis

Jumping on the bandwagon. Just placed my order!


----------



## BVH

Let's play the guessing game....







Left is Costco HID 35 Watt...................Center top is Oracle...................Right is AmondoTech 3152 (original POB w/4300K)

.........................................................Center bottom is N30

As with some other shots I took tonight, these are not full and correct exposures (not by choice) Everything is actually brighter than it looks here. I don't think the Oracle is 4300K. It looks more like 5500K. However, It's definitely not 6000K or above. I don't have any 6000K lights to compare it to but I'm going from memory. I do not like 6000K lights and never keep them. Even though the Oracle is probably around 5500K, I really like its color temp and find it a very usable light. Don't let the blueness in the pic scare you, it's not that blue. Sure, I'd like a real 4300K "mag" HID but this is a good compromise. Mine flickers a little more than I'd like - reminiscent of the Welch Allyn 10 Watters. Maybe it will get better.

In looking for HID kits on Ebay, I noticed the vast majority of vendors had EITHER 4300K OR 5000K, not both. I think they are referred to as the same thing by the auto HID'rs.


----------



## Patriot

Geez Bob, I'm not sure of any of them except the Costo HID on the left. 

Is the one on right possibly the L35 and maybe the center one the Oracle?


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> Let's play the guessing game....


 
It's incredible how much color temp varies from manufacurer to manufacturer. 

Okay, I just tested mine in my garage adjusted for the tightest beam and to my eye the Oracle matched closest to the one in the 3 O'clock position, but without the reddish corona. 

If the N30 is in the photo, it would have the warmest look of the one at 6 o'clock.


----------



## BVH

Pat, you're correct on the light on the left - Original Costco 35 Watt HID. 3 more to go. I used it for its 5000K color temp reference point.

Oh, and i used my new tripod for the first time. No more shaky images!


----------



## BVH

Doing a little white-wall hunting, I've noticed a lot more flicker. In the moments that it is not flickering, I would say color temp drops a good 500K. I think it could be a 5000K or slightly less color temp flashlight if it was not flickering.

I'll draw down the battery and give it a good full charge and clean all the contacts to see if it improves.

Ah, it just went out. That explains the increased flickering. I don't think I got more than 30 minutes total. I initially charged it till the green light came on. I then unplugged the charger and battery, waited a full minute then plugged it back in for 5 minutes. The light stayed green.

Tomorrow's another day.


----------



## Patriot

That's very short run-time. Maybe a little too short for my tastes. Maybe the second full charge will improve the next run.


After studying the different HID tints some more I've decided that your Costco is my favorite of the bunch. It also looks pretty close in color to your Blackhawk Locator.


----------



## MIKES250R

If the Amondotech is 4300K then the N30 has to 4200K or less. The N30 is just hard to beat as to my eye it has the most natural color rendering of all the lights pictured. Those are great shots!


----------



## ampdude

I like the Amondotech 3152..

From the picture of the Oracle above, that doesn't look like 4200K.


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> Doing a little white-wall hunting, I've noticed a lot more flicker. In the moments that it is not flickering, I would say color temp drops a good 500K. I think it could be a 5000K or slightly less color temp flashlight if it was not flickering.
> 
> I'll draw down the battery and give it a good full charge and clean all the contacts to see if it improves.
> 
> Ah, it just went out. That explains the increased flickering. I don't think I got more than 30 minutes total. I initially charged it till the green light came on. I then unplugged the charger and battery, waited a full minute then plugged it back in for 5 minutes. The light stayed green.
> 
> Tomorrow's another day.


 

Hi BVH,

At least I had the bottom light (N30) correct in your photo. I sure hope your Oracle has a warmer color temp than what the photo shows. The only time mine appears that cool is during the initial startup for a few seconds. Just when you think it's at full brightness and color temp looks cool (appears 6500k), it vaporizes the last of the salts, flashes brightly and color temp gets nice and warm and much brighter with a great hot spot.

Also, below are a few of the written questions and responses I received from Justin from Advanced Automotive Concepts prior to my purchase.



*Dear advanced_automotive_concepts,

*Hi..do you sell the phosphorescent halo rings in green for this HID flashlight and how much are they? Is there a way to change the 6000k bulb in it to a 4200k-4300k? If so, do you sell any that are direct replacement for the stock bulb? Thanks.


*Response:* 

*The phosphorescent ring is built into the light and can not be sold separately. The lights we sell all come with 4300K bulbs to optimize lumens. *

*-eBay Sales Team
*AAC Enterprises INC.
300 Jefferson Hwy. STE#805 
New Orleans, LA 70121www.AACstyle.com*
1(800)407-5776
*


In a message dated 2/14/2009 8:24:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,
Hi AdvanAuto,

The specs for the flashlight don't mention the 4300k bulb temp. Are you sure about that? If so, I'd still be interested in purchasing one. Thanks.

Richie


*Response:* 

*Correct, we only offer these in 4300K. We can get other colors but they must be special ordered.*

http://www.automotivelightstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=205

*-eBay Sales Team
*AAC Enterprises INC.
300 Jefferson Hwy. STE#805 
New Orleans, LA 70121www.AACstyle.com*
1(800)407-5776*


​ 
 
Do you sell spare bulbs for the flashlight on your website and how much are they? Thanks.

Richard



*Response: *
*We do stock spare bulbs but our lights have a lifetime warranty so we do not sell replacements, they are free. *

*-eBay Sales Team
AAC Enterprises INC.
300 Jefferson Hwy. STE#805 
New Orleans, LA 70121
**www.AACstyle.com*
*1(800)407-5776
*


​


----------



## ampdude

Hmm.. I'm getting a little more skeptical of this. Glad I didn't order one yet.

I'll wait for some more field reports.


----------



## Bushman5

OOOOOH i like the color of that costco light! any chance of upgrading the ORACLE from its warm yellowred color to something more white like the costco?


----------



## BVH

As I indicated last night, I think this light might settle down to around 5000K.

Richie, I'm not doubting you or your posts. You gave an honest appraisal of what you went through and see in your light. I don't regret buying this light at $149.00. it's a great light at a great price. And as I said above, I really believe the auto HID sales biz calls 4300K and 5000K the exact same color. I will not own a 6000K and above light - this one is a keeper for me.

Let's see what the light does after some break in time. Colors get lower as bulbs break in.


----------



## ampdude

BVH said:


> Colors get lower as bulbs break in.




I thought it was the other way around... that HID's generally shift higher over time.


----------



## BVH

You're correct, my mistake. It shifts up as yellow goes away.


----------



## Richie086

ampdude said:


> I thought it was the other way around... that HID's generally shift higher over time.


 

Trying to absorb as much as I can about HID's, this is my take on "color shift" 

It's my understanding after approximately 100-500 hours the phenomenon "color shift" begins to take place. Yellow diminishes yielding more blues. The change usually occurs slowly, and may not actually be apparent to you. However, very specialized equipment is necessary in order to accurately measure color temp.


----------



## ktafil

Hi,

I am reading this post with lots of interest.
For now I have the following questions:

- does this one have a tail switch or where did they hide it?
- can someone post "up in the air" beamshots to show throw vs flood?
- Is this the best HID to buy for the money????

I really like the basic look of it. 

thanks.


----------



## BVH

It has a tail switch

For the $149 price, and if you want a "mag" style HID as opposed to an N30 style of light, I don't think you can go wrong.

However, with the N30 (not sure of the new pricing though), you're getting 6 more Watts of power which nets around 500 or so more Lumens. It's just a more robust light - as it should be for the extra power.


----------



## Richie086

ktafil said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am reading this post with lots of interest.
> For now I have the following questions:
> 
> - does this one have a tail switch or where did they hide it?
> - can someone post "up in the air" beamshots to show throw vs flood?
> - Is this the best HID to buy for the money????
> 
> I really like the basic look of it.
> 
> thanks.


 

Hi Ktafil,

I can answer a couple of your questions. Yes, it has a tail switch that's actually built into the battery pack. It also tail-stands perfectly if you were wondering.

As for being the best for the money? Well, the retailer offers a one full year warranty and is located in California, speaks English, and writes perfectly. So you won't have to deal with someone in Shanghai, China.

Obviously I recently received mine, so I personally haven't had to test what the experience would be with the retailer should something go wrong with it. I'll go out on a limb here and say if it's got to get shipped back to them for repair under the warranty, I'd expect to have to pay shipping and insurance both ways. Regardless, I really like these compact lower power HID's and use it every day.

I don't have a good beam shot for you. I'm sure someone else will pop in with one.


----------



## ampdude

Why would you not expect them to pay to ship it back to you? That's the way it usually works.


----------



## Richie086

ampdude said:


> Why would you not expect them to pay to ship it back to you? That's the way it usually works.


 

Hi there AmpDude,

It was just an assumption on my part. But due to the low price charged to buy it, I would imagine profit margin is very slim. So I don't know what to expect from them beyond making the actual repair should it need it. Hopefully none of us will need to find out.


----------



## ktafil

BVH said:


> It has a tail switch
> 
> For the $149 price, and if you want a "mag" style HID as opposed to an N30 style of light, I don't think you can go wrong.
> 
> However, with the N30 (not sure of the new pricing though), you're getting 6 more Watts of power which nets around 500 or so more Lumens. It's just a more robust light - as it should be for the extra power.



I just love the mag style lights. the N30 just doesn't do it for me (looks not performance wise)
I wanted to built a 14watt mag HID at first, but this is a very sweet light with a nice price and more watt's....!


----------



## MIKES250R

I got my Oracle today wow that was super fast shipping for ground. I did some playing around with it, white ceiling bouncing comparing it to the Microfire. The color does appear to be somewhat warmer than the Microfire. However, the Microfire throws a much prettier spot as the Oracle pattern is filled with lots of artifacts. Focusing helped some with this especially when focused out to a floody type beam. I took them both down to my basement which is totally dark and the artifacts were far less noticeable. I like the color of the Oracle's bulb and the overall output is good- a bit floody. Just when I got started good the Oracle's battery died. I think it will be a keeper. The price is certainly right. My AE clone was in need of charge too so as of now all my toys are on their chargers. Hopefully tonight I can get out and terrorize the neighbors and try my hand at some night time photography.


----------



## BVH

OK, problems on the home front here with mine. Can someone tell me what charger output Voltage is by taking a reading right at the charging pin adapter? My light seemed to charge ok yesterday - first charge new. I again ran it down over a few runs today and I doubt I got 25 minutes out of it. Plugged in the charger and the led went red. Couple hours later, it was green. Popped in the battery and no light. Measured the battery Voltage - it's still the 11.9 it was before charging. My open circuit charging Voltage right from the pin is 10.95. Charger is rated 12.6 but I'd like to know real world open circuit voltage. 

The light was flickering about 95% of my run time. Significant flickering. However, during the brief periods of non flickering, it really jumped down in color temp - a lot. It possibly could be below 5000K. But it won't stay for long and starts flickering again. There's not too many coincidences in life. It's probably related to my battery problem. The one thing I did not do was to measure battery voltage after the first successful charge. Can someone tell me what fully charged pack voltage is?


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> OK, problems on the home front here with mine. Can someone tell me what charger output Voltage is by taking a reading right at the charging pin adapter? My light seemed to charge ok yesterday - first charge new. I again ran it down over a few runs today and I doubt I got 25 minutes out of it. Plugged in the charger and the led went red. Couple hours later, it was green. Popped in the battery and no light. Measured the battery Voltage - it's still the 11.9 it was before charging. My open circuit charging Voltage right from the pin is 10.95. Charger is rated 12.6 but I'd like to know real world open circuit voltage.
> 
> The light was flickering about 95% of my run time. Significant flickering. However, during the brief periods of non flickering, it really jumped down in color temp - a lot. It possibly could be below 5000K. But it won't stay for long and starts flickering again. There's not too many coincidences in life. It's probably related to my battery problem. The one thing I did not do was to measure battery voltage after the first successful charge. Can someone tell me what fully charged pack voltage is?


 

Hey Bob,

I can easily answer those questions.

Taken directly from the charger pins, open circuit voltage on mine is 12.6v - 12.61v. When charging the battery, the *"green"* charge light comes on at about 12.37 volts. I then allow the pack to charge several hours further and remove it when it reaches 12.6v. The pack goes into the flashlight and remains basically at 12.58v - 12.6v, what should be considered fully charged. The above is always carefully monitored having a multi-meter on the battery terminals during charging. 

From my example of this flashlight, the instances I've used it outside in cool weather, I've gotten the rated runtime. However, running it in the house in stagnant air and allowed to get hot, it'll turn off in under 30 minutes. 

Lastly, with either my Tactical HID 24w or the Oracle, sometimes it takes a slower press on the On/Off switch for it to turn on. There is no reason your Oracle should not have turned on at 11.9v unless it was overheated.

I've also experienced some flickering on mine that I never noticed while taking walks with it. I've noticed it indoors while doing runtime tests. I know some of the Tactical 24W HID's had this problem, however, my example of the Tac 24w does not have the flicker issue.


*BTW...BVH...please clean out some of your PM's. Your box is full*


----------



## BVH

Thanks, Richie. Looks like a charger problem, although not sure why the light won't light even at the 11.2 Volts. For some reason, I kept thinking this was a 4-cell light. Right now, the battery staic voltage is 11.2 but when plugged in "charging", it's 10.3. The charger is actually sucking from the battery!

What is your light shut-off pack voltage?

Opps, box emptied.


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> What is your light shut-off pack voltage?
> 
> Opps, box emptied.


 

With the volt meter attached, I can't get a reading if the battery push-switch is off. It must be turned on to read the voltage on my meter.


----------



## BVH

Correct on the switch. If you pull out the battery after the light goes off on low voltage, what does it read? Somewhere in the low 9's or high 8's?

I really think I have a charger and a ballast problem. The light should light with 11.8 Volts going to it if it starts out at 12.6. Even at 11.2, it should light.

Also, I really don't think the beam color temp in my first photo is representative of what this light does when working properly.. I've had a few Welch allyn 10 Watt HID lights and they all flicker in a minor way. This light flickers in a major way 98% of the run time. I just got a bad one, no big deal. We'll see how customer service works. When it was working, if I held the light in my left hand and quickly rotated it 180 degrees, the flickering stopped for a moment and the color temp dropped way down, probably below 5000K.


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> Correct on the switch. If you pull out the battery after the light goes off on low voltage, what does it read? Somewhere in the low 9's or high 8's?


 
Sorry, I understand your question now. If NOT overheated, by the time I've gotten the battery out and on the multi-meter, I've read about 9.25v. 

If overheated causing the light to turn off, I've read about 11.15v.


----------



## BVH

Mine went off for the last time yesterday when it was pretty warm. Batt Voltage was around 11.8. This morning, of course everything is cold, the pack is at 11.2 at the contact terminals, the switch is functioning fine. No start-up of any kind. You may be correct in that there may be some type of thermal shut down device in the ballast that has not reset on mine. However, the charger is still an issue. There aren't too many coincidences in life but I seem to have two problems.

I'll also add that when it was working, there was no flickering at all during the 30 + or- second starting cycle.


----------



## Richie086

I forgot to mention. When the thermal cut-off engaged, even the LED's would not work. It would take a few minutes for the pack to cool down enough and then the LED's would come on. That's assuming you leave the LED switch in the "On" position to let you know the thermal issue has subsided.

Also, if you're able to read voltage, then the switch is fine. I assume if you press the switch, you won't be able to read any volts at the pack with it off. 

If that's the case, try reinserting the pack several times and not tighten down on the tail cap as much.


----------



## BVH

Well, then, that's not the problem, my led's light up fine. She's just dead!


----------



## Richie086

*Re: ORACLE 24W Alternating Current Version*

Hi there folks,

I contacted Justin about 30 minutes ago and amazingly have already received a reply from him. This is what's important about dealing with someone here in the US and not a dealer in another country :thumbsup:

The Oracle 24w version is being upgraded shortly with a new "Alternating Current Version" of this light. It will resolve the "startup flicker" and reduce the burn time on the cold bulb. The AC version will be more stable, and get rid of any anomalies while the light is running. So I assume this may mean a better ballast, but I'm not sure. In any event, the upgrade is about to be released and I'm sure anyone having issues will have them resolved. Please contact Justin for any additional questions you may have. You all now know as much as I do.


----------



## gchronis

*Re: ORACLE 24W Alternating Current Version*

I wonder if he will replace faulty units with the new one. I have mine on its way. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Richie086

*Re: ORACLE 24W Alternating Current Version*



gchronis said:


> I wonder if he will replace faulty units with the new one. I have mine on its way. Fingers crossed.


 

Hi Gchronis,

I have no doubt that'll be how it'll work. Besides, I'm in the same boat as you too as well as a few others. So I wouldn't worry about a thing. Also, please post your comments on your purchase after it arrives.


----------



## BVH

Just left a message for him to call me. I'll hold out for the new version.


----------



## stollman

I just ordered one too based on this CPF thread. I hope they will send me a free upgrade when the AC version comes out. I sent them an email about the recent posting from Richie "The Oracle 24w version is being upgraded shortly with a new "Alternating Current Version" of this light. It will resolve the "startup flicker" and reduce the burn time on the cold bulb".


----------



## BVH

OK, the latest but not the end, I'm using the car charger to charge the battery and it is working. It's interesting that when I plugged it into the power slot in the car, the led initially was green and I verified with a Voltmeter that the battery voltage was coming up over time. This was with the engine off. When I took a trip to the store, as I was idling out of the garage, the led was green. When I was driving down the road, the led was a bright red, but it was still charging. The car adapter is not regulated in that current flow goes up with voltage increase. After 10 minutes of charging, I tried the light and it is working. I took the battery back out. Then i simulated car charging with my power supply supplying power to the car charging adapter. The led was green all the way up to 13.9 Volts, when it turned red. I'm not quite sure what all this means. Should the led be red whenever it's charging and turn green when it's done? Does red mean too much voltage? (it was red in a normally functioning car) Not sure. When my power supply falls to no current, I'll take a pack volt reading and then begin a run time test. The 120V adapter is still stuck at 10.85. Pretty sure it's dead. But after I have run the pack down, I will try it again. Interesting stuff! Even if the problem is only the 120 V charger, if the light flickers like it did, it's going back for a replacement.


----------



## Patriot

Dang BVH. It sounds almost like a charger and a ballast problem. I think I'm misunderstanding one thing though. What was 13.9V? Was that the pack voltage or your car battery when hooked to the charger? If it was pack voltage..... 4.6V per cell.

Oh, yes and normally these types of lights are red while charging and green when done. Not sure if this is the same though. I'm guessing that you might be right about it turning red for too high a voltage if in fact that 13.9V was your battery pack.


----------



## Richie086

Patriot36 said:


> Oh, yes and normally these types of lights are red while charging and green when done.


 

Yes, what Patriot said is exactly correct


----------



## BVH

13.9 from the power supply to the dc charging adapter caused the led to go red while charging. But it was also red when hooked to my Sonata while driving around.


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> 13.9 from the power supply to the dc charging adapter caused the led to go red while charging. But it was also red when hooked to my Sonata while driving around.


 
When charging the LED will illuminate "red". Even if illuminating "green" it's still charging. But if the car charger isn't regulated, as you indicated, I'd be concerned using it unless the battery is very low and you just need to get some power into it. The manufacturer states 12.6 volts input, and NOT to go higher than 12.8. It's obvious what will end up happening with 13.9 volts  Just go with your power supply set to 12.6 volts and you won't have to worry.


----------



## Richie086

*Re: ORACLE 24W Alternating Current Version*

Being aware this AC operating version will be released soon has helped me to understand why I haven't been able to get longer runtimes than 40 minutes and why it sometimes flickers after being completely warmed up. Although the aluminum body doesn't get noticeable warm when walking with it outside, it sure does when doing runtime tests inside the house. After thinking about this today, it started making pretty good sense how the circuitry inside this HID operates. 

The circuitry within the ballast requires DC input (obviously) and what initially must fire the bulb, but then must pass through some type of coil or step-up transformer while still remaining DC, it's now stepped up to the required 85 volts to maintain the arc for brightness. There's likely a good amount of resistance within that type of ballast or circuit which requires additional power to run and also explains the additional heat generated and 40 - 45 minute runtimes.

If you add AC operation to the equation, you'll still need DC voltage to fire the lamp, but once the lamp fires, the voltage must then pass through another type of transformer or phase inverter and output is now high frequency AC power. I'm thinking the phasing is similar to how the PWM inverter on my emergency generator produces DC to AC 120v power for my home and produces far cleaner power than what the power company sends us. 

The high resistance of DC is eliminated on the output side of the ballast resulting in a more efficient and stable (flicker free) operating arc. There should also be noticeably less heat buildup due to the low resistance on the output side so more battery power can be used to drive the bulb or arc, rather than heating your hand, and yielding longer runtimes. I'd say the Oracle will easily operate for 1/3 longer than it does now or for a good 60 minutes of runtime with this upgrade.

I can't wait to find out, but I'll try and be patient


----------



## Patriot

Flickering is also an indication that the bulb may be underdriven a bit. Again, not sure if that's the case here. My Microfire flickers too which isn't noticed during actual use but is seen if white wall hunting.


----------



## BVH

Would it make sense to supply a car charger if you cannot use it with the engine running? That would seem very strange to me. The pack was 12.05 when the power supply dropped to 0 output. I think you said it should be 12.6 which would be 4.2 x's 3. Oh well. It's running now but flickering like a champ!


----------



## BVH

It just went off after 6 minutes of running and it's not hot. This baby's going back.


----------



## Patriot

BVH said:


> It just went off after 6 minutes of running and it's not hot. This baby's going back.




Oh dude! That's annoying. 


Does this mean that I get a :whoopin:for mentioning this light to you..:mecry:


----------



## BVH

ABSOLUTELY.................NOT!!! I Love doing this type of tinkering. This is fun stuff. I'll just wait for the AC model.


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> Would it make sense to supply a car charger if you cannot use it with the engine running? That would seem very strange to me. The pack was 12.05 when the power supply dropped to 0 output. I think you said it should be 12.6 which would be 4.2 x's 3. Oh well. It's running now but flickering like a champ!


 

Hey BVH,

The problem is people like you and I always find a way to involve a multi-meter because we HAVE to know it all. 

The solution: just plug the car charger in and nobody will be the wiser.

Still, I was never one to follow good advice. I'm going to test out my care charger and see what the output voltage is with mine.


----------



## MIKES250R

I charged the battery charged 24+ hours. I did a run time test and the light never got hot just warm. However, it shut off in 25 minutes. There was some flickering during testing? I am recharging the battery and will do another runtime test to see if there is any improvement. Just for reference I am doing a run time test of my other two HIDs. My Dad has my POB or I would be testing it also.


----------



## Phaserburn

I would be interested in this light if it gets it's act together!!


----------



## Richie086

MIKES250R said:


> I charged the battery charged 24+ hours. I did a run time test and the light never got hot just warm. However, it shut off in 25 minutes. There was some flickering during testing? I am recharging the battery and will do another runtime test to see if there is any improvement. Just for reference I am doing a run time test of my other two HIDs. My Dad has my POB or I would be testing it also.


 

Hey Mike,

Take a volt reading on the pack prior to installing it or bettery yet, leave it on while charging so you can visually see what it is. The positive is the center contact. When I did my last and final runtime test yesterday, I got 40 minutes exactly. Since this was in the house, I decided to have a fan blow on it keeping it totally cold. Perhaps that's why it got decent runtime. At this point I wouldn't read anything into runtimes. Once the upgrade is released, all this goes out the window and we'll be up at 60 minutes.


----------



## MIKES250R

Just for funzies I got 1 hour and 5 minutes on my AE 24 watt clone and 1 hour and 45 minutes out of my Microfire.


----------



## MIKES250R

I 
PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS:
- WORKING ENVIRONMENT: -14 to 140 F
- OPERATING TIME: 180 MIN CONTINUOUS
- BULB LIFETIME: 5000 HOURS OF USE
- BATTERY LIFETIME: 500+ DUTY CYCLES
- WARRANTY: 1 YEAR UNCONDITIONAL
- WATERPROOF DEGREE: 1PX3
- OUTPUT: 24w HID Xenon
- BRIGHTNESS: 2400LM
- NET WEIGHT: 2LB

I only got 20 minutes on my second run this morning. Will send mine back as well.


----------



## gchronis

Did the dealer ever say to anyone that they will take back our lights and replace them with the AC ones at no extra charge (other than shipping)?


----------



## Richie086

gchronis said:


> Did the dealer ever say to anyone that they will take back our lights and replace them with the AC ones at no extra charge (other than shipping)?


 

Gchronis,

I only know this dealer stands behind all their products. If you have a problem, they'll make it right. How this will be done I'm not sure. We'll find out when this upgrade is soon available. I would imagine if you have a concern, email them from their website and ask what they'd like you to do.


----------



## ampdude

20 minutes is quite a difference from 180 minutes.


----------



## Patriot

ampdude said:


> 20 minutes is quite a difference from 180 minutes.




I never knew they claimed 180. If that's the case it's quite humorous. I would also be interested in this light once it's not buggy any more.


----------



## MIKES250R

On their website they claim 180 minutes. I think given the small size of the battery pack that 180 minutes is pretty much impossible. I think I would be happy with an hour though. I really like the light as its color temp and output are quite pleasing even if it is full of artifacts. It is one of the most ringy and chopped up looking beams on a whitewall I have ever seen but out in the field it is not that noticeable. If compared to my Microfire the bulb appears not centered well and the opening for the bulb is too large. I have yet to crack it open as I don't want to void any warranty. On the web site it also clearly states 1 year unconditional warranty. Hopefully whoever makes Oracle will fix a few of the bugs and send me a keeper.


----------



## MIKES250R

Hey check this out I think I figured out how to get some pics on here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikes250r/RecentlyUpdated#

The pics are from left to right the 24 watt clone,the Oracle and the Microfire. The Last page is the Oracle and the AE clone.

First set of beam shots were taken on white concrete. The second two sets were taken on a white ceiling. The more I play with the other two lights the more I appreciate my Microfire. Sometimes you do get what you pay for.


----------



## Patriot

No doubt about it MIKE, your Microfire is way warmer.


----------



## jasonck08

Wow they claim 180 minute runtime and 2400 lumens. Where did they get those numbers from? Try 1400 lumens and 45-60 minutes runtime...


----------



## cmacclel

gchronis said:


> Did the dealer ever say to anyone that they will take back our lights and replace them with the AC ones at no extra charge (other than shipping)?


 

I highly doubt they going to exchange the old for new model when it comes out. 

24 watts = 2+ amps of battery drain. You would think you would get close to 45-50 minutes of runtime. If the charger is not charging the pack to 12.6v then the cells are not fully charged. 

Mac


----------



## BVH

Here's the latest.

When left on the auto charger for 4 hours, final pack voltage is 12.05 - or so I thought. I popped it into the light and got about a minute of run time and it went out. I checked pack voltage. About 11.87. I plugged in the charger and read voltage while charging and it's initially about one-tenth of a volt higher and then I unplugged it. I read the voltage. It's 12.35! I popped it back in the light and got about 30 seconds of run time. Took it back out and read voltage of 11.64. Plugged in the charger for a few seconds then unplugged. I measure pack voltage and its 12.25. Back into the light and it gives me another 30 seconds. Something clicks in my brain about over-discharge protection circuits in batteries that I've read here in a few threads some time back. After each cut-off, if I jolt the pack for a moment with charging voltage, I get 30 seconds of run time. This is repeatable at least 10 times. I'm guessing the protection circuit is malfunctioning and once tripped, takes a micro second of higher than pack voltage to reset it.

The 120 Volt charger will not duplicate this scenario. It still always reads 10.35 or so.


----------



## stollman

Looking around on Ebay, they have some very similar/identical 24W lights. 

The descriptions for these lights:
tacticatlhid.com - 24W, 1400 lumens, runtime ?, 6k temp
No Brand Name - 24W, 1200 lumen, 45 min runtime, 6k temp
Night Hawk (Spider Fire)- 24W, 1400 lumens, 110 min runtime, ?k temp

They look pretty much the same as the Oracle. Oracle's 180 min runtime does not sound correct. The 2000 lumen output sounds a little off too


----------



## Richie086

This 24W HID flashlight seems to be sold under at least 5 different names or retailers that I have on record with at least one retailer claiming a non-adjustable fixed focus. 

Most seem to sell them with the optional 6000k color temp. It's likely only the Tactical HID 24W actually has the updated AC version ballast at this time since mine doesn't flicker at all and runtime is a consistent 60 minutes compared to my Oracle at 40 minutes. Obviously the Oracle is in the process of upgrading their stock, but beyond these two retailers, I'd be very weary purchasing from anyone else.

As for specifications, obviously some of the Oracle's are inaccurate to say the least. From my experience using it and taking into account the OP reflector, which seem to make it a more "all-around" type of flashlight rather than an all-out thrower. 

I revamped the specifications for my Oracle below and tossed out the ones claimed and put a copy inside the case. So I'm going by these from here on unless things change or someone here comes up with something better or more acurate. I also think the Tactical HID 24w has 100 - 200 less lumens than my example of the Oracle.


*ORACLE 24W HID SPECIFICATIONS*


*Output: 1200 lm - 1400lm of Xenon brightness. *
*12V 2200mAh Li-ion Rechargeable Battery (40 min run- time).* 
*Included one AC Charger*​
*Input: 100-240VAC, 50~60Hz*​
*Output: 12.6VDC 1200mA*​
*Connector: 5.5mm x 2.1mm male barrel plug *​

*Included one 12VDC Car plug charger with 5.5mm x 2.1mm male barrel plug *​
*Easy use for charging the 12V 2200mAh Li-ion Rechargeable Battery from car. *​

*Charging time = 3 hours by either AC Charger or 12VDC Car plug charger *​
*Entire unit constructed of tough aluminum*​
*Water-proof design IPX3 and suitable for any terrain. Do not submerge into water.* ​
*Specifications *​
*Power and voltage Luminousness: 24W/12V*​
*Brightness: 1200 - 1400 Lumens*​
*Color temperature: 5000K*​
*Continuable illuminate time: 40 Minute runtime *​
*Irradiation distance: more than 1KM *​
*Bulb life-span: 3000 hours *​
*Light starting time: 15 Seconds *​
*Battery mode: 12V 2200mAh for 24W (HID-12V24W-BATT) *​
*High quality 3 pcs Rechargeable Li-Ion 18650 2200mAh cells*​
*Capacity: 2200mAh (24.42Wh)*​
*Dimension (Diax H): 43mm(1.7") x 106mm(4.2')*​

*Weight: 7.7 Oz (218 grams)*​

*Battery life-span: more than 500 times*​
*Optical efficiency: 70LM/W*​
*Weight: 1.2 Lb (544 grams) *​
*Flashlight's Dimension: 9-1/4" L x 1.9" D Head Dia: 3.0"*​


​


----------



## MIKES250R

I don't know where you got your specs from but this is what the specs peviously stated: 

ACCESSORIES:
- Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Battery
- DC Charger (Car Charger)
- AC Charger (Home Charger)
- Built In LED Micro Flashlight
- Professional Locking Hard Case


PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS:
- WORKING ENVIRONMENT: -14 to 140 F
- OPERATING TIME: 180 MIN CONTINUOUS
- BULB LIFETIME: 5000 HOURS OF USE
- BATTERY LIFETIME: 500+ DUTY CYCLES
- WARRANTY: 1 YEAR UNCONDITIONAL
- WATERPROOF DEGREE: 1PX3
- OUTPUT: 24w HID Xenon
- BRIGHTNESS: 2400LM
- NET WEIGHT: 2LB

This came straight off their web site at time of purchase which was last Wednesday. At any rate mine has been charged over 5 times and still will not run longer than 25 minutes and it flickers quite a bit. I called AAC and they said to send it back and they would swap it for a new one , one that has been run tested.


----------



## larryk

I received mine today and after charging the battery I got 11 minutes before it flickered out.
This light definitely has a design flaw.
My guess would be that the battery pack is not supplying the proper voltage and or current.
But I'm just guessing.


----------



## BVH

Larry, I think the same thing. Something's haywire in the circuitry in the pack, probably the over-discharge circuit tripping early.


----------



## Patriot

Supposedly these lights are from the same family as the "Tactical HID" but I don't remember hearing any reports of battery or run-time issues with those. I wonder what the deal is?


----------



## gchronis

Ok, just got mine. Charged it up. It was red, then went to green after about 10 minutes. That's all good. I have it running for another 10 minutes now and it started flickering. I just emailed them and it's going back. I will consider buying the AC version later, but I'll wait to read some reports first. I am really irritated with this thing.

I also have the Tactical HID 35W. That one works just fine.


----------



## gchronis

Just wanted to add a tidbit about customer service: I just called them to return it. They are sending me a return label, so I won't have to pay for shipping and they will take it back for a full refund (including shipping). They didn't give me any trouble, either. At least they have great customer service. So, I have confidence in purchasing the AC version later on.


----------



## BVH

Same here, no issues on the return. He indicates about two weeks until being able to ship out the new AC versions.


----------



## larryk

gchronis said:


> Just wanted to add a tidbit about customer service: I just called them to return it. They are sending me a return label, so I won't have to pay for shipping and they will take it back for a full refund (including shipping). They didn't give me any trouble, either. At least they have great customer service. So, I have confidence in purchasing the AC version later on.



I just got off the phone with them and was told I would have to pay for the shipping back to them. The only way they would pay for return shipping is for a replacement, no free shipping for a refund.
Do you remember who you spoke with ?


----------



## BVH

I was emailing Justin and am getting the AC replacement so I guess that's why the free return shipping for me.


----------



## dabadboy

So aside from the AC replacement is anyone feeling that they'd rather of just saved their money?

I ordered one and it hasn't arrived but things look a bit dissapointing so far. I'm hoping that runtimes are at least 70+ mins. Anything less then I'd rather spend the extra money on something who's specs/stats match real life figures.

I'll let you know how mine ends up.


----------



## dabadboy

What a coincidence! It just arrived UPS to my door seconds ago.

I'll run a full charge tomorrow and test run times.


----------



## Patriot

dabadboy said:


> I'm hoping that runtimes are at least 70+ mins. Anything less then I'd rather spend the extra money on something who's specs/stats match real life figures.




Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but a 24W HID will never run 70+ mins off of 3 x 18650 2400mah cell pack. The best lights typically see about 60 mins but 50-55 is more common as in the case of the WE Boxer.


----------



## CERVELO

I got mine monday & called because it had no manual/pamphlet/booklet for any type of instructions(not that its rocket science).So I asked the guy about using the light & he said " Turn the battery to the ON position tilll the 3 little lights die out then put it on charge & you will be fine, but dont leave it on in excess of 24 hrs. The 3 little lights should go off in about an hour."

Well it took 6 hours for them 3 little lights to die out, then I left it on charge for about 12 hrs. Put the battery in and turned it on ( I read somewhere that depressing the button & holding it for a few seconds was the best way so thats what I did-- & I used it 3 times for about 10 minutes each without recharging between each.

Well this morning I decided to try depressing the on/off button quickly and it turned on and stayed on for about 2 minutes then sut off, wouldnt come back on. Took the battery out & switched it to on and no 3 little lights.

Any body got any ideas on why it shut off after such a short time & should it be discharged so soon? any imput would be appreciated!!

K


----------



## Richie086

CERVELO said:


> I got mine monday & called because it had no manual/pamphlet/booklet for any type of instructions(not that its rocket science).So I asked the guy about using the light & he said " Turn the battery to the ON position tilll the 3 little lights die out then put it on charge & you will be fine, but dont leave it on in excess of 24 hrs. The 3 little lights should go off in about an hour."
> 
> K


 

Hi Cervelo,

In my first post, I mentioned this flashlight doesn't come with instructions. 

You also lost me when you mention having to turn the back-up LED's on and waiting for them to die out before charging. The LED backup is for when you're in the field using the flashlight and primary battery power is below the minimal level to power the HID components. If lighting is still required, you'd then be able to remove the battery and switch on the 3 LED's as a backup. When not required, the LED switch should always remain "OFF", especially when the pack is installed into the flashlight body.

As for runtime, 40 minutes is the maxium you'll get if turned on and left on and if the flashlight can remain cool enough. As with any HID flashlight, turning it on and off will impact total runtime. The AC version will yield a maximum runtime of 60 minutes and the most you can expect out of 3x 18650's if fully charged to 12.6 volts.


----------



## gchronis

larryk said:


> I just got off the phone with them and was told I would have to pay for the shipping back to them. The only way they would pay for return shipping is for a replacement, no free shipping for a refund.
> Do you remember who you spoke with ?



Some lady, don't remember her name. She did indeed send me a shipping label and I requested a refund. She said it was going to be ok. I hope they don't send me a new one. I'd like to wait and see what the new one is like, first.


----------



## lightfet

I just received mine today & quite disappointed with QC, it got a lot of dinks on the bezel more like scratch marks and the aluminium can be seen. I'm in Singapore, so it will be too costly to send it back to CA.
:mecry:


----------



## Patriot

lightfet said:


> I just received mine today & quite disappointed with QC, it got a lot of dinks on the bezel more like scratch marks and the aluminium can be seen. I'm in Singapore, so it will be too costly to send it back to CA.
> :mecry:




Sorry to hear that lightfet. It's a bummer when you spend money and get less that what was expected. 

Perhaps you could take pictures and sent them to the seller in an attempt to get your shipping reimbursed.


----------



## larryk

lightfet said:


> I just received mine today & quite disappointed with QC, it got a lot of dinks on the bezel more like scratch marks and the aluminium can be seen. I'm in Singapore, so it will be too costly to send it back to CA.
> :mecry:



Other than the scratch marks on the bezel, (mine is scratched also) does yours perform properly ?


----------



## lightfet

larryk said:


> Other than the scratch marks on the bezel, (mine is scratched also) does yours perform properly ?



It's performing ok but have not tested the run time yet.


----------



## Richie086

Hi folks,

I was just on Advanced Automotive Concept's website and noticed they updated their flashlight page. The Oracle 24w is now advertised as 4200k color temperature and available in black or silver color. I assume this means the new stock is in? Has anyone received the new A/C 4200k version yet ? I'd love to see beam shots. 

http://www.automotivelightstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=364


----------



## BVH

No, nothing here.


----------



## jasonck08

I don't get why they advertise it as "110 minute runtime." From testing, this light gets a max of about 65 minutes.


----------



## larryk

Anyone receive info on the AC version yet ?


----------



## Richie086

larryk said:


> Anyone receive info on the AC version yet ?


 

Hi Larry,

This is a quote from Justin from Advanced Automotive Concepts regarding the upgraded 24w and 35w HID flashlights. I received it from him on March 23rd.


*"Richie, the AC version will be available this week as well as the 35W version with Silver housing and 4200K bulb *

*I will contact you as soon as I can begin shipping. *

*For the 35W I can fwd you a private link for CPF members to get it at a reduced price!"*


----------



## larryk

Thanks, Richie.


----------



## KarlH

So has anyone recieved the new 24W light yet? I am not a light collector like many of you on this forum and only want to buy one hid flashlight hopefully without choking on the price. After a few weeks looking around, the oracle really does seem to fit the bill price wise, and performance wise if the new version fixes the issues many of you have noted.


----------



## Richie086

KarlH said:


> So has anyone recieved the new 24W light yet? I am not a light collector like many of you on this forum and only want to buy one hid flashlight hopefully without choking on the price. After a few weeks looking around, the oracle really does seem to fit the bill price wise, and performance wise if the new version fixes the issues many of you have noted.


 

Hi Karl,

I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm still waiting to exchange my 24w also. Some may have returned their lights and received the new one, but I really have no idea. 

Hopefully if any members have received the upgrade will post about it. I'm going to be purchasing the 35w shortly from one of our dealers here, I'm just scrounging up the money right now. I'm sure it's going to be a great HID hand-held with my favorite color temp.


----------



## BVH

I still have my old one. The deal for me is that I'm supposed to receive a return shipping label with the new, replacement light.


----------



## Mattole

I called them today and was told that the AC ballast version of the Oracle 24W is in stock and is selling through their website. He also said something about the leftover stock of the previous, DC version now being sold on eBay. I asked him if the 110 minute runtime listed in their specs was accurate and he said yes, this is the info that has come directly from the manufacturer. Not exactly a definitive answer, except that it sounds like he intends to stand by what the maker says.

I may just have to buy one of these lights sometime soon..


----------



## Patriot

Mattole said:


> I asked him if the 110 minute runtime listed in their specs was accurate and he said yes, this is the info that has come directly from the manufacturer. Not exactly a definitive answer, except that it sounds like he intends to stand by what the maker says.



Unfortunately that's impossible on a 3 x 18650 power source. About the longest run-time that could ever be had would be 70 minutes if the light was underdriven, which it doesn't appear to be. 55-60 minutes would be more typical.


----------



## Mattole

Yeah, I thought that 110 minutes sounded a bit high. It makes me wonder whether the Oracle folk are just that unfamiliar with the lights that they sell or if there is a problem with their integrity..

I look forward to reading a review on the new AC version. Seems like the DC version had a lot of problems. 

This is the only compact light of this power level in the $250 price range, right?


----------



## KarlH

With all the people that had the old version, you would think someone by now has recieved their replacement or purchased the new version. Anyone have anything to report on the new AC version?


----------



## Mattole

So if I read your post correctly, I as a new buyer can purchase an Oracle 24W light for $169.00? When I spoke with someone at their office yesterday they said the price was $249.00. How long will this special price be in effect?

So tell me, what do you LOVE about this light (assuming that it works correctly) - is it really worth the money (I'm trying to justify the cost to myself..)??


----------



## BVH

Richie... package dropped off today for a Fedex Ground return. Tracking is: 051787710016333. Orig receipt inside and I wrote on the outside of the box that this is a return of the 24 Watt Oracle by CPF member BVH.


----------



## Richie086

Mattole said:


> So if I read your post correctly, I as a new buyer can purchase an Oracle 24W light for $169.00? When I spoke with someone at their office yesterday they said the price was $249.00. How long will this special price be in effect?
> 
> So tell me, what do you LOVE about this light (assuming that it works correctly) - is it really worth the money (I'm trying to justify the cost to myself..)??


 

Hi Matt,

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I forgot to add the CPF only link to my original post back on page #5 of this thread for the private CPF members purchase link for the new AC 24W HID flashlight. Please go back to that page to view the update on my post. 

As for your other question, I love the compact size and semi-adjustable beam. Runtime should be 1 hour as well. The entire package, including the great case with 1 year unconditional warranty and 4200k color temp make it a must have. Besides, if you purchase from someone on Ebay, good luck trying to get service from someone in Shanghai China.


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> Richie... package dropped off today for a Fedex Ground return. Tracking is: 051787710016333. Orig receipt inside and I wrote on the outside of the box that this is a return of the 24 Watt Oracle by CPF member BVH.


 

Thanks BVH, I'll forward the link to this webpage for Justin so he knows to expect members to start shipping back to him.:thumbsup:


----------



## Mattole

Okay I'm very close to ordering one, and even have one in the cart on the Oracle site..

So.. does this really blow away anything else of comparable size in the LED flashlight realm in terms of brightness? It is rated at 2000lm but is that accurate?


----------



## Richie086

Mattole said:


> Okay I'm very close to ordering one, and even have one in the cart on the Oracle site..
> 
> So.. does this really blow away anything else of comparable size in the LED flashlight realm in terms of brightness? It is rated at 2000lm but is that accurate?


 

Hi there Matt,

I don't have enough experience to comment on the LED comparison. Perhaps BVH or Patriot will read this to give you the correct answer. As for brightness, it's 4200k, well, it does have a semi-orange peel reflector, so it'll be a decent thrower and also have excellent flood capability. Franky, you can't beat the 4200k color temp and should beat the pants off a Wolf-Eyes Boxer HID 24w. Sorry I can't give you a better answer.


----------



## BVH

While I spend most of my time here in the HID area, I am familiar with a lot of led lights. The Oracle is considerably larger than most, if not all led lights. It's sort of like a wide-body Mag 2-D. For $170 or so, it's a very nice light - or at least the AC version will be. If you don't have to have the "Mag style" of HID light, the Stanley is a higher performing light putting out probably 3200 +- Lumens and is only about $70.00. However, its run time is about 30 minutes. The bulb is tagged as "8000K" but it is more like a 6000K lamp in real life.


----------



## Mattole

Actually, smaller is better for me..I have an HID light that I bought off of eBay in November of 2007 that is considerably longer than the Oracle (it has a shoulder strap it is so long). I don't recall the specs on it, but the eBay title said "HID Spotlight Flashlight Torch Headlight Flash Light 24". Maybe the 24 in the title means 24W. It has a smooth reflector and is EXTREMELY bright. I really like the light but want something much smaller. Thus my interest in the Oracle. 

Sorry, I'm sort of rambling here, making my way through the decision to add another light to my growing collection, just wanting to make sure it will be much brighter than the 900 lumen LED light that I already have..


----------



## Richie086

Mattole said:


> Actually, smaller is better for me..I have an HID light that I bought off of eBay in November of 2007 that is considerably longer than the Oracle (it has a shoulder strap it is so long). I don't recall the specs on it, but the eBay title said "HID Spotlight Flashlight Torch Headlight Flash Light 24". Maybe the 24 in the title means 24W. It has a smooth reflector and is EXTREMELY bright. I really like the light but want something much smaller. Thus my interest in the Oracle.
> 
> Sorry, I'm sort of rambling here, making my way through the decision to add another light to my growing collection, just wanting to make sure it will be much brighter than the 900 lumen LED light that I already have..


 

The HID you have now sounds like the AE-24w clone, which is really huge. It may even be slightly longer than the Oracle 35w. I have no doubt the Oracle 24w will be brighter than your 900 lumen LED, likely in the neighborhood of 1200-1400 lumens.


----------



## Mattole

Thanks for that info, Richie. 

Any idea what the usable throw distance for the Oracle 24W would be? I have only seen close beam shots, nothing showing what it can do at farther distances.


----------



## Richie086

Mattole said:


> Thanks for that info, Richie.
> 
> Any idea what the usable throw distance for the Oracle 24W would be? I have only seen close beam shots, nothing showing what it can do at farther distances.


 

Anytime. 

Due to the OP reflector, I'd have to say it's a good all-around HID flashlight. I have lit objects up several hundred yards away, but that was with my old version with a 5000k+ color temp bulb. This new version can only do better and with greater color rendition.


----------



## Mattole

Okay, I think I'm going to take the plunge...

What does the Oracle "Unconditional Warranty" mean - is that for replacement as well as refund?


----------



## Richie086

Mattole said:


> What does the Oracle "Unconditional Warranty" mean - is that for replacement as well as refund?


 
I'd refer that question to the retailer. Mine and others here had a minor defect in the ballast and we're getting them all replaced. So AAC clearly is standing by their product.


----------



## Patriot

Mattole said:


> So.. does this really blow away anything else of comparable size in the LED flashlight realm in terms of brightness? It is rated at 2000lm but is that accurate?




The term "blow away" is relative of course but if we're on the same page that's probably a good way of putting it when comparing a "900 lumen" LED light (I'm just going to assume it's a P7 of some make) to the tactical HID. 

I better make it clear right off the bat that I don't yet own one because I wanted to see if there were going to be issues with this light (DC version) which did indeed turn out to be the case. With that knowledge my comments about the actual lumen output is based off of lights that I owned or have owned previously and from beamshots that others have posted that I've studied. 

The question, "is 2000 lumens accurate?" is a good one and it's a little hard to nail down. If the ballast is in fact supplying 24W that would mean that this light is producing 83.3 lumens per watt which sounds pretty high. 83.3 lumens per watt would be more typical of 35W performance since efficiency increases as wattage increases, to a point. 24-25W class HID's typically produce in the neighborhood of 60-70 lumens per watt. I would say that 1600 lumens could be a very real figure which would put the light at just under 67 lumens per watt. Unlike the Boxer, AElight, or some Microfires, there is no further deduction since the "Tacical 24W" is a 4200K light or at least somewhere close too it. So a good solid 1600 lumens is my honest guess and I think it's pretty realistic. 

Beyond lumens, which are more easy to relate too, the big difference between an LED light and the HID is the throw factor. If you're only used to high output LED's the HID will be pretty shocking at first. I think it would be a great idea when you get your HID, to take it outside and compare it the the "900 lumen" LED, and then come back here and share your first thoughts. I think you'll be very impressed. You can easily expect double or triple the lux from the HID over the LED and that's huge!



P.S. Please tell me which 900 lumen led you have if you care to share because depending on what light it is there's a good chance that it's not anywhere near 900 lumens. I'd just be curious....thanks


----------



## Mattole

Thanks for your generous post, Patriot. The 900 lumen LED light that I have is the Solarforce L900m. It puts out a massive flood but does not have quite the throw that I would like. Still, for less than $80, I consider it a good deal and very useful around the homestead.

By the way I just now completed ordering the Oracle 24W. UPS Ground shipping should have it to me in about a week. I will give a report after I receive it - fingers crossed!!


----------



## Patriot

Mattole said:


> Thanks for your generous post, Patriot. The 900 lumen LED light that I have is the Solarforce L900m. It puts out a massive flood but does not have quite the throw that I would like. Still, for less than $80, I consider it a good deal and very useful around the homestead.
> 
> By the way I just now completed ordering the Oracle 24W. UPS Ground shipping should have it to me in about a week. I will give a report after I receive it - fingers crossed!!





ah ok, I'm not sure off hand which bin it's using but for a base I'll just use the example of a C bin. Solarforce's P7 is driven 1.9A on high iirc which equates to a respectable but way under advertised 540 emitter lumens. For out the front lumens you'd subtract about 15% from that figure. Needless to say, the 24W HID that you ordered is going to amaze you!!!


----------



## DM51

Richie, your desire to be helpful with this is much appreciated, but if AAC is going to use you as a go-between for its commercial activities, it cannot expect to have its full policies and contact details published here. This amounts to advertising, and it belongs in the MarketPlace with the approriate Dealer/Manufacturer subscription. I have therefore deleted your post. If you have not saved a copy of it, let me know and I’ll PM it to you.


----------



## Richie086

DM51 said:


> Richie, your desire to be helpful with this is much appreciated, but if AAC is going to use you as a go-between for its commercial activities, it cannot expect to have its full policies and contact details published here. This amounts to advertising, and it belongs in the MarketPlace with the approriate Dealer/Manufacturer subscription. I have therefore deleted your post. If you have not saved a copy of it, let me know and I’ll PM it to you.


 

Hi DM51,

Sorry about all of this. I didn't have a copy of it, but I can't repost it, so I guess it doesn't matter. I just hope all the members that needed to have their flashlights replaced saw the information I posted. I'll ask AAC again to join as a dealer. Sorry again for causing a problem here.


----------



## larryk

Richie, I returned mine today for replacement of the AC version via FedEx Ground. Tracking is: 468815910120485. 
There were some scratches on the bezel when I received it. I never mentioned the scratches to Justin because it was being returned. I hope he doesn't think I scratched it.


----------



## Richie086

Hey Larry and BVH,

I forwarded your tracking information to Justin. 

Larry, I mentioned to him that you noted scratch damage early on in this thread when you first received it, so I'm hoping there won't be a problem. He thanked you both for the tracking information.


----------



## Richie086

Hey folks,

I came home from work today and found my replacement A/C powered Oracle 24w 4300k waiting for me all dressed in aluminum. There was enough power in the battery to give it a brief test. Clearly, this baby is 4300k as the instruction manual states. It's on the charger now. I'll try to get some outdoor beam shots posted soon. Here's a photo to wet your appetites.


----------



## KarlH

I just got home to find mine waiting. I ordered it last Thursday and never got a tracking number in email so was surprised to see it waiting. Mine also had enough power in the battery to fire it up. I'm not into flashlights like all of you, but dang the actual light can be used as a hand warmer by shining it on yourself from a couple of inches. I have the battery on the charger now and can't wait for it to get dark. Mine is black and the build quality for a newbie like me is impressive anyway. This coming weekend when I get bored trying to kill coyotes with my night vision, I'll have to take it out to the powerline and get some photos. We have a clear 1200 yard line of site on the powerline. I know it will impress me, maybe not many of you though


----------



## Richie086

KarlH said:


> I just got home to find mine waiting. I ordered it last Thursday and never got a tracking number in email so was surprised to see it waiting. Mine also had enough power in the battery to fire it up. I'm not into flashlights like all of you, but dang the actual light can be used as a hand warmer by shining it on yourself from a couple of inches.


 

Hey Karl,

Believe me, I'm impressed by it and why I wanted one in 4300k. The color temp on it is really excellent. There's a bit of yellow in a small part of the beam, but I'm sure after using it for a while, the salts inside the bulb will dissipate enough to make it disappear. 

Also, be careful if it's been running for a while because like any HID flashlight, the glass lens will heat up to about 350 degrees fahrenheit. I guess that would make it a good hand warmer, or cooker..LOL

Hey, if you have a power failure in your house, you can always scramble some eggs on it..LOL.


----------



## KarlH

Richie086 said:


> Hey Karl,
> 
> ...
> Hey, if you have a power failure in your house, you can always scramble some eggs on it..LOL.


 
Or boil some ramen noodles, less mess than eggs.


----------



## Richie086

*Re: ORACLE 24W HID Flashlight 4300k Photos*

Hi folks,

Okay, got a few photos of the Oracle 24w 4300k output. 










The closest HID flashlight I had to compare it to is the Tactical HID
24w 6000k. Obviously the Oracle 4300k is on the right.







Tactical HID 6000k on left, Oracle 4300k on right. This shot is at about 30 or 40 yards.







The last photo I took of the Oracle on the right side.


----------



## larryk

Looking good, I can't wait until I get my replacement. They should have received the DC version on Monday. Hopefully they will let us know when they send the new one's out.


----------



## Patriot

Hey wow! Nice beam comparisons Richie. I just posted in the other thread about it so it's nice to see the difference. 


Now....reliability? We'll have to wait a bit and see.


----------



## Richie086

Patriot said:


> Now....reliability? We'll have to wait a bit and see.


 

I can't seem to get past 40 minutes runtime. I've charged the batteries to their maxium charge of 12.6 volts. If this flashlight didn't have a 1 year warranty, I'd open it up and replace the 18560's with a better brand to get it up to the 1 hour+ mark. Aside from that, it works like a champ. 

Has anyone opened up the Li-ion pack on one of these to see if it would require only some simply soldering to replace the batteries?


----------



## Mattole

Richie,

I hope you contact AAC to let them know about the runtime, since they insist on keeping the 110 minute runtime on their website. My 24W will be arriving tomorrow, and I will report in on the runtime that I get, which will probably be the same as yours. I'll be pretty disappointed if that is what we are stuck with..


----------



## Richie086

Mattole said:


> Richie,
> 
> I hope you contact AAC to let them know about the runtime


 

I did, but if you get the same results, make sure you let them know directly.


----------



## Patriot

Mattole said:


> Richie,
> 
> I hope you contact AAC to let them know about the runtime, since they insist on keeping the 110 minute runtime on their website. My 24W will be arriving tomorrow, and I will report in on the runtime that I get, which will probably be the same as yours. I'll be pretty disappointed if that is what we are stuck with..





It will be interesting to see what kind of run-time you end up with. 





Frankly, I'm not surprised at all with Richie's runtime results and I touched on that in earlier posts. 50-55 minutes is very typical of the WE Boxer 24W and Microfire (same battery configuration) but they're also not as bright as the Oracle from what I've seen. It possible that the other lights are underdriven some or perhaps the Oracle is at spec or slightly overdriven but it's certainly bright either way. I don't see this as a fault as long as the customer knows exactly what they're getting when they purchase the light. Clearly, the advertising numbers are not representative and need to be changed on AAC's site asap. I think it will speak volumes of them as a company to see how they handle the issue if serveral CPF members inform them that their lights only run 40-50 minutes.

I don't have a problem with compact, bright lights with minimal run-time myself and would still consider ordering one if everything else is aye ok. The way I look at it, it's two and a half times brighter than the M6 with HOLA, it throws further, has double the run-time, is regulated so doesn't drop off like a typical incan, costs half the price and is rechargeable. By any measurement it's a lot of performance for not much size or money. In many ways there's nothing of similar size, performance and price so in that regard it's still in a class of it's own. I suppose I'm sharing this perspective to minimize surprise or disappointments when the run-time isn't what some expect. I say, enjoy the light and be happy with the deal that you got.


----------



## Richie086

Hey Patriot,

Speaking for myself, I'm more surprised than disappointed and agree with your assessment of the light. Aside from performing runtime tests, I haven't actually required any of my HID flashlights to run until drained. 

I had it fresh off the charger and the battery at 12.6 volts, but at least there is no flicker and it works great. I just expected longer runs from a battery that's supposed to be 2200 mAh.


----------



## Patriot

Richie086 said:


> Hey Patriot,
> 
> Speaking for myself, I'm more surprised than disappointed and agree with your assessment of the light. Aside from performing runtime tests, I haven't actually required any of my HID flashlights to run until drained.
> 
> I had it fresh off the charger and the battery at 12.6 volts, but at least there is no flicker and it works great. I just expected longer runs from a battery that's supposed to be 2200 mAh.




Good point about your "surprise" and not necessarily disappointment. That was probably a weak word and not meant to apply to you.  Besides, you strike me as the type who would enjoy the light on it's good attributes anyhow and also one who actually enjoys the testing in itself, kind of like BVH does. The 2200mAh rating is given at .5C so again, I'm not too surprised by the run-time you're experiencing, especially if the ballast is operating slightly over 24W which is only a guess. The other possibility is that it's just very inefficient but I thought I'd give it the benefit of the doubt since the output appears to be very good.


----------



## KarlH

Let me start by saying I don't know what I'm talking about A real newbie here with high power flashlights. I am very happy with my purchase, it is going to work very well for what my intended use will be. Last night I got to compare how well blood shows up on the ground between my coleman lantern and the oracle. A feral cat was nice enough to be hunting out in the horse pasture yesterday evening, maybe there is a happy hunting ground in the afterlife for it. I would give the slightest nod to the coleman, I guess due to the difference in the color spectrum, but not much. Given the convenience of a flashlight and the ability to control the light better, the oracle is better. Will have to wait and see what filters may make it even better or if it is better with no filter. I'm guessing the beam shots you show are so clean due to the overexposure on the camera? I know my beam is not that homogenous, not a gripe, it is better than any flashlight I have used except my led lenser. Does anyone know where I can purchase a spare battery pack? I would like one for convenience.


----------



## Richie086

KarlH said:


> I'm guessing the beam shots you show are so clean due to the overexposure on the camera? I know my beam is not that homogenous, not a gripe, it is better than any flashlight I have used except my led lenser. Does anyone know where I can purchase a spare battery pack? I would like one for convenience.


 

Hey Karl,

Although my PowerShot SX110 IS camera has a fantastic Steady-Shot feature, I never take any photos, especially at night without the camera being on a tripod. My exposure setting is also set to 4.0 so the beam shots appear as they are to the naked eye. The only adjustment to any of my photos are within Photoshop 7.0 for size adjustment only. Basically you're seeing a beamshot as my eyes saw it when the photos where taken.

As for blood tracking, if AE Light sells the appropriate lens (I forget which color, blue?) I'd purchase one from them and it should suite your purpose. My AE Xenide 25w diffuser lens fits pretty well on the Oracle 24w. The rubber gasket on the lens perimeter makes it adjust to the Oracle bezel very well. Hope this helps.


----------



## Richie086

Hey Patriot or BVH,

Since both of you have a good amount of knowledge in this area, I'd though perhaps you can give me some advice. Like most of my HID flashlights, I can't seem to keep my hands off of them (yes Patriot, you were right about me), and like my POB, I decided to do a battery mod on my Oracle 24w even though it'll likely void my warranty. 

My question is this; if I purchase 3 higher capacity 18650's, do they remain the same size they are now but only have higher quality chemicals within them? Maybe you can recommend them in a higher capacity than 2200mAh presently inside the flashlight. 

There would be some de-soldering I'd have to do, which isn't a problem for me. I'd also assume the batteries would require tabs, but I won't know for sure until I remove the shrink wrap covering them. As long as I don't overdo it, I don't see a problem using the existing charger. The Oracle 35w charger is higher capacity than the 24w charger, so I think charging them won't be a problem.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## Patriot

You'd have to ask the battery pro's what makes them higher capacity but I think it might have something to do with the way that they're wrapped or layered. 

They'll remain the same size but capacity will increase provided that you stick with the same li-ion chemistry. Here is a thread which is tracking 18650 performance:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/217485

They'll almost surely require tabs and the existing charger (for the 24W light) will be just fine so no problems there. 

CPFer Lips has done some 18650 upgrading for a 4s2p stock polarion pack before so he may be able to help with specifics but I'm guessing it will be pretty obvious to someone like you. 




Judging from the performance data in the link above you should get increased run-time but it's not going to be anything breath taking. Even if there ended up being a 15-20% increase in capacity that equates to about 6-8 minutes.


----------



## KarlH

Anyone live down south where all the timber companies have nothing but pine plantations covering the whole state? Just try doing a beamshot this time of year. The pine pollen is so thick you can walk on it, no different than a fog. I just took about 10 consecutive pictures over 5 minutes and this is the best I could get between the incredibly thick waves of pollen. Canon powershot S2 1.3 seconds F3.5 just cropped nothing else done at 225 lasered yards.


----------



## Richie086

KarlH said:


> Just try doing a beamshot this time of year. The pine pollen is so thick you can walk on it, no different than a fog.


 

Karl, that's really nastly looking.


----------



## Richie086

Hi folks,

I came up with this idea while giving CPF member, KarlH a hand with a mod he's been working on and thought it should be shared with the forum.

I discovered that the AE Xenide lenses fit perfectly on the Oracle 24w. All you have to do is unscrew the bezel and allow the clear lens to fall into your hand. If you have the AEX lens package, you simply remove the rubber gasket from them, drop them in place and screw the bezel back on. Great fit and totally functional. The existing gasket works just as well with the AEX lens in place, maintaining a waterproof seal. Please see photos below.







Shown with my 3-piece AE Xenide lenses. Diffuser, amber
and IR.








With AEX amber lens installed.








Indoor beam shot with AEX amber lens installed.










AEX diffuser lens.











Side shot of diffuser lens at work.


----------



## KarlH

I may end up wishing I had not found this forum. Just ordered the 6 filter set for another 100. The wind is picking up and we are supposed to get rain tonight, that will give a temporary reprieve on all the pine pollen. If the air is clear, I may get some good shots at the hunt club tomorrow after I'm done playing with the coyote's.


----------



## larryk

Richie086 said:


> I can't seem to get past 40 minutes runtime. I've charged the batteries to their maxium charge of 12.6 volts. If this flashlight didn't have a 1 year warranty, I'd open it up and replace the 18560's with a better brand to get it up to the 1 hour+ mark. Aside from that, it works like a champ.
> 
> Has anyone opened up the Li-ion pack on one of these to see if it would require only some simply soldering to replace the batteries?



I received my AC version yesterday. I got the same 40 minute runtime.I'm not as concerned because I only play around with most of my lights. And mine also has the 4200 bulb, maybe even slightly lower than 4200.


----------



## Richie086

larryk said:


> I got the same 40 minute runtime.I'm not as concerned because I only play around with most of my lights. And mine also has the 4200 bulb, maybe even slightly lower than 4200.


 

I'm having a battery issue with mine now. Runtime is down to 20 minutes. Perhaps one of the batteries may not be up to the job. I'm wondering if I damaged one of the batteries over-charge protection by fully charging them to 12.6 volts. 

From what I've been reading about 18650's, they are rated at 3.7 volts, but they can be charged to 4.2 volts before the over-charge protection kicks in. If anyone knows where I can purchase AW 18650's with tabs, please post a link. 

I'm going to attempt to build my own battery pack for it and make this flashlight the best it can be.


----------



## KarlH

I'm waiting on a response from their sales people on getting a second battery. Let me know if you have any luck improving the run time, with a second battery I won't mind digging into one. I hope my filters get in before the weekend, I've got to see how far away I'll have to have my other new toy to not overload it with the ir filter. I just got my camera mount for it today and took this picture. No moon and I'm out in the middle of nowhere so there is virtually zero light pollution. Those pine trees are 50 yards away, and you can see nearly 200 yards to the top of the field next to the house. With starlight, there is no need for an IR illuminator. Kind of hope for some good cloud cover this weekend to play.

ITT night enforcer pvs-14 pinnacle tube.


----------



## smokelaw1

Well, looks like mine should be a tthe house when I get this tongiht. I look forward to playing around with it. I like the small form factor (and the price!) for a fun little HID. 
We'll see how the battery life shapes up. Any thoughts on how long that first charge takes?


----------



## BVH

Got mine when I got home from a trip yesterday. I have two questions:

1. My charger led displays green and very quickly flashes orange about once per second while charging. This started when I initially plugged it in when new and after 15 hours of charging. Anyone else's do this?

2. Does the head come off this light? I get about 2.5 turns and then it gets fairly hard to turn. I don't want to force it.

If my light is charging, I got 37 minutes from the first charge (although the orange flash never stopped). If it is not, then I got 41 minutes from two runs.


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> Got mine when I got home from a trip yesterday. I have two questions:
> 
> 1. My charger led displays green and very quickly flashes orange about once per second while charging. This started when I initially plugged it in when new and after 15 hours of charging. Anyone else's do this?
> 
> 2. Does the head come off this light? I get about 2.5 turns and then it gets fairly hard to turn. I don't want to force it.


 

Nope, my charger is either green or red. But to get the runtime you mention, it's obviously charging. I know the crenellated strike bezel unscrews, but I've never tried to see if the head removes. Mine has a stop at the end of each direction turned.


----------



## Richie086

smokelaw1 said:


> We'll see how the battery life shapes up. Any thoughts on how long that first charge takes?


 

It depends on how much charge, if any, it has from the factory. The charger on mine turned green in less than an hour. I also keep it on the charger with a volt meter attached to the terminals so I get it fully charged to 12.6 volts. For the volt meter to read, the battery "On" button must be pressed to active the terminals. I think the charger turns green at about 12.35 volts.


----------



## KarlH

I got my Ae Xenide filters today. They do work fine in the light even though they are a bit smaller than the stock lens. I have the blue filter stacked on the stock lens here with the edge about as even as I could get it all around.





Sitting in the light, the bezel when screwed on fits well, even though in the picture it looks like most of the glow ring seal is visible, it is better than it looks. My blue filter has a couple of bad flaws in the coating, the other 5 that came in the set are perfect. I'll be sending battery junction an email asking for an exchange/replacement on the blue filter. I hope they have good customer service.


----------



## Richie086

KarlH said:


> I have the blue filter stacked on the stock lens here with the edge about as even as I could get it all around.


 
Hi Karl, 

Yeah, that lens does look like there's a flaw in it. I'm sure they'll replace it for you. Also, you don't need to stack it on top of the stock clear lens. I was able to remove the clear lens and simply drop the filter right in. When I first tried stacking it, I didn't like that you couldn't screw the bezel completely down. Hey, it's all good, whichever way works best for you. Glad to see a few have tried this idea and it's working well.


----------



## KarlH

Richie086 said:


> Hi Karl,
> 
> Yeah, that lens does look like there's a flaw in it. I'm sure they'll replace it for you. Also, you don't need to stack it on top of the stock clear lens. I was able to remove the clear lens and simply drop the filter right in. When I first tried stacking it, I didn't like that you couldn't screw the bezel completely down. Hey, it's all good, whichever way works best for you. Glad to see a few have tried this idea and it's working well.


 
A little misunderstanding there, I guess I wasn't clear. The stacking refers to the slim picture where if you look carefully, you can see the blue filter is on top of the stock lens, which in turn is sitting on the couch. Just took that to show the difference in diameter. I did not stack any of the filters on the lens when installed in the light, just used them alone.


----------



## BVH

Despite the 1-second orange led flash rate while charging, the battery charged up to 12.64 Volts. Doing a run time test now.


----------



## andy129

Hey fellows, new to CPF i have been using my oracle 35w and after reading this forum i decided to purchase a 24w, i have had no trouble with getting 50+ minutes of continuous run outta my HID. i guess i just got lucky?


----------



## larryk

BVH said:


> Despite the 1-second orange led flash rate while charging, the battery charged up to 12.64 Volts. Doing a run time test now.



Hi BVH, did you ever do a runtime test on your light ? I did a second test and got 5 more minutes for 45 minutes. I did both tests resting the light to cool down after 15 minutes intervals.


----------



## MIKES250R

I got my replacement 24 W Oracle, charged for 8+ hours and installed battery. The light ran for 10 minutes. I am so very frustrated. Recharged the battery and it will fire up and immediately shut itself off. I give up. I have requested a full refund. I am out $20 or so on shipping for two returns back to Automotive @!~*%$#@#. Buyer beware both samples I had were not in the same class or near the same quality as my Microfire or my Wolfeyes. Sometimes you get what you pay for. 

Mike


----------



## lapsmith

Got mine this week, just a few days after ordering. My run time was 40 minutes after the first full charge (using AC charger). I am very happy with it, but there is one thing I've only seen mentioned once or twice and that is that this gets HOT. After 15 minutes or so, it is too hot to hold bare handed. I'll try to test it again and shoot the IR thermometer at it to see what the temp is, since high temps are also bad for batteries!

Tom


----------



## Patriot

That stinks Mike250. Sorry to hear you had so much trouble. The 35W Oracle seems to be far less problematic than the 24W. 




BVH, how is your newest AC light?


----------



## BVH

I made sure it worked and stuffed it into my truck as my emergency light. I guess I should retrieve it and do some testing, shouldn't I???


----------



## lapsmith

After 25-30 minutes of run time, the temperature near the reflector was 138 deg. F and 115 deg at the cap end. This is with the silver model, the black may be a few tenths cooler

Tom


----------



## bkumanski

I just read the post about the old DC versions being sold on ebay...Did AAC say this? I'm just wondering because I bought mine a few days ago from AAC on their ebay store. How can I tell which version I have? Anyone notice a difference? I haven't had time to do runtime tests, but I probably should soon. The only thing I noticed was the light didn't power on this morning about two times, then turned on when it was shaken a little. Seems fine now...:candle:


----------



## MIKES250R

Junk absolute junk. Overall I am not happy one bit. It was yesterday that I finally got my money back and they had my return for over three weeks. Buyers beware! If you guys are happy with 30-40 minutes run time when they claim over twice that and a light that has to be shaken in order for it to work, more power to you. Obviously you have never experienced the HID likes of Boxer,Wolfeyes or AE. When these manufactures state a runtime it is always a conservative estimate in which the product meets or exceeds that rating. I' m not bitter just extremely disappointed.

Mike


----------



## BVH

If it continually flickers, then you probably have the DC version. If it flickers very infrequently - maybe once every 3-5 minutes, then it is probably the AC version.


----------



## bkumanski

Ok, I did a runtime test today as well. 40 Min with no noticeable flicker until the end when it flashed then quit. The battery also had about 5-10 min of intermittant use the day prior with no recharge. So 45-50 sound good? With so little flicker, I'm hoping I have the AC version. Is there any way to tell by looking at the balast? Also, has anyone experimented with some better cells, like AWs or something? Maybe make a balanced pack and use a hobby li ion charger like the Triton and the plug adapter? Maybe all everyone is experiencing is poor battery performance from cheap cells...


----------



## Patriot

Sounds like you definitely have the AC version then. Since the WE Boxers consistently run for 55-60 min, I'm going to guess that the Oracle 24W is either producing more output or the ballast is less efficient. It sounds to me like yours is working great! Enjoy.


----------



## LumenMan

Any updates on this light? I'm thinking of getting one :thinking:


----------



## LOUSYGREATWALLGM

LumenMan said:


> Any updates on this light? I'm thinking of getting one :thinking:


If you are asking about the blue/green power indicator you can call and ask from AAC if the given price includes the led indicator before placing an order. Else, no changes to the light. This light is so cool!


----------



## LumenMan

LOUSYGREATWALLGM said:


> If you are asking about the blue/green power indicator you can call and ask from AAC if the given price includes the led indicator before placing an order. Else, no changes to the light. This light is so cool!


 
Thank you for you reply  I was just checking to see if there were any reliability issues or other news.


----------



## LOUSYGREATWALLGM

You might want to check the Oracle 35W/28W dual mode too


----------



## AncientSword

I too was thinking about getting one of these. Has the quality control been figured out yet with these and how reliable are the battery packs now, etc...


----------



## Mattole

I purchased one a few months ago when they were on sale and really like it. It has been reliable and the batteries seem to work fine - but for no more than about 45 min. This light kicks out an awesome amount of light for being relatively small. I'm glad I have it.

By the way when I bought the light they were advertising a 110 minute runtime on the battery. When I got only 40-45 minutes from the battery, I called the company and complained persistently enough that they sent me an additional battery for free.


----------



## 07gttom

their site states that they now sells ORACLE 24W Lithium Battery Pack and they state it is 4400mah. from what this thread stated, they come with 2200 mah batteries... what kinda run time do you guys think this new battery should yeild??


----------



## BVH

All ads have always said it comes with a 4400 mah pack from what I remember. There is no way it comes with a 4400 mah pack. There are 3 18650's in there and the highest yield 18650 Lithium out there is the Panasonic 2900. I seriously doubt they have changed anything. Plan on the same batteries and same 35-42 minute run time.


----------



## jasonck08

They have been saying that the capacity is 4400mah for forever... They really need to stop false advertising. :thinking:
 
The manufacturer rates the capacity at 2200mah. I've personally done discharge tests and have drawn about 2000mha from the pack, could have discharged the pack even further though. The packs are very close to the actual manufacturer specs.
 
Oracle also likes to inflate other numbers. They use to claim 110m battery life for the 24W, they still claim 2200 lumen output (vs 1600), and bulb lifetime 5000hrs vs 3000hrs (actual).


----------



## BVH

That sounds about right. But under a 2.5 Amp discharge rate, which is about what the Oracle runs at, the best I've been able to get is about 1680 mah. No problem getting around 2200 mah at a .5 amp draw or so.


----------



## 07gttom

ok, so that battery pack they sell is just a stock replacement one.. why the false advertisment... i see they brought the runtime minutes down to 60 minutes, guess that is about it.


----------



## BVH

There's no way it will do 60 minutes unless they stuck the Panasonics in there and they are new and rare enough that I seriously doubt it.


----------



## jasonck08

BVH said:


> That sounds about right. But under a 2.5 Amp discharge rate, which is about what the Oracle runs at, the best I've been able to get is about 1680 mah. No problem getting around 2200 mah at a .5 amp draw or so.


 
Interesting... My discharger will not discharge higher than 1amp, so the test I did was like 2000mah with the pack down to 9.9v or so... Could have pulled a little more out of the pack before protection circuit kicks in...


----------



## BVH

The Peukert's factor at work! The classic example of "the higher the draw, the less capacity in a given sized battery". I think these cylindrical cells are tested for official capacity at .1C. Not 100% sure, though.


----------



## LOUSYGREATWALLGM

07gttom said:


> ok, so that battery pack they sell is just a stock replacement one.. why the false advertisment... i see they brought the runtime minutes down to 60 minutes, guess that is about it.


I have sent you a PM.. Please check your Private Message Inbox


----------



## LumenMan

I'm looking for an inexpensive belt pouch/holster for this light. Does anyone have a link or any info? Thanks!


----------



## CUL8R

Several Comments on this light and it's advertised capacities, etc.

1. For those of you concerned about the 45 minute runtime, AAC has the following info listed on this light under "Dealers Corner" section of CPF: 

"We are actually producing an extended tailsection for the 24W flashlights that allows the small 24W flashlight to accept the larger battery from the 35W flashlight that is the equivalent to 6 CR18650NH batteries






It is expected to dramatically increase the run time of the flashlight but we will not be releasing actual times until we complete testing. We should have these available for sale in approximately 2 weeks. Pricing will be posted soon as well as a CPF special pricing thread!"

2. I suspect any incorrect claims on battery power and usable time came directly from the chinese manufacturer. In other words, AAC simply reported the manufacturers claims without testing them. Should AAC have verified those claims? Probably, but I can understand why they didn't, and went with the manufacturer's specs. They have been quick to post corrected claims when people have notified them of errors.

3. Just ordered my 24W silver (and an extra battery) to complement my 35W silver. I've had no problems with the 35W and like it a lot! Also liked the service and help provided by AAC, so decided to order from them again. As soon as they have the extended tailcap ready, I'll order it and the bigger battery which I'll be able to use in either of my Oracles.

Jim


----------



## BVH

The only issue I see with the extended tail section is that it now becomes the same size as the 35 Watt light. Why not just buy the higher power 35 Watt light which allows you to run it at two levels. I like the small size of the 24 Watt and hope that my new cells will give me about 55 minutes of run time.


----------



## Patriot

Agreed, I would also purchase the 35W given the choice. I suppose there is value in the concept for owners of 24W lights who have since decided they need more run time at the expense of increased size.. I would guess that most 24w lights were purchased because of size appeal over run time or output to begin with. I could see the extension kit being useful for a 24W owner who didn't have another more powerful or longer running HID. For me, if I needed more run time, I'd just take a different light. Bear in mind, I don't own the light, just speaking out of concept, having owned a Boxer 24W at one time.


----------



## CUL8R

I haven't seen the 24W battery, But it can't be much shorter than the one for the 35W light. I'm guessing here, but I assume the extension end cap would add maybe 1/2 to 1". Even with the extension cap, the 24x should be far shorter than the 35W. And if the runtime is appoximately 90min for the 34x on low power, this battery in the 25x should be good for about 100min.

Jim


----------



## Patriot

CUL8R said:


> I haven't seen the 24W battery, But it can't be much shorter than the one for the 35W light. I'm guessing here, but I assume the extension end cap would add maybe 1/2 to 1". Even with the extension cap, the 24x should be far shorter than the 35W.
> 
> Jim




My guess is that it will be closer to 100mm or about 4 inches longer. Essentially, the extension is just a tube that allows for 6 x 18650 pack vs. the 3 x 18650 pack that it currently uses. Since the length of a single battery is at least 65mm I'm adding an extra 35mm just for insulation, spacing or whatever it is that makes the 35W pack longer.


----------



## CUL8R

Patriot,

I think you are right. I just measured the battery from my Oracle 35W. It is almost 7" (1780mm) including the electrical contacts. That would bring the 24W up to at least 13" (or maybe even to the length of the 35W at 14.5"). If the light is going to be that long with the extension tube, I also have to agree with you that it makes much more sense to buy the 35W dual mode vs a 24W with extension tube if you are in the market for a new light. Looks like the extension will be more for those upgrading their 24W lights. I think the main reason for someone to buy the 24W over the 35W is that at 9", it is 5 1/2" shorter than the 35W. Thats a major difference, and why I'm getting the 24W to complement my 35W. I've got several intended uses that the 35W is just too big/long for. Maybe the more honest reason is that new toys are always fun!

Jim


----------



## BVH

The 18650's are 2.5" by themselves. I'd guess a 1/4" clearance between the two stacks of cells. The two ends won't change so the extension is probably between 2.75 and 3".


----------



## jasonck08

Patriot said:


> My guess is that it will be closer to 100mm or about 4 inches longer. Essentially, the extension is just a tube that allows for 6 x 18650 pack vs. the 3 x 18650 pack that it currently uses. Since the length of a single battery is at least 65mm I'm adding an extra 35mm just for insulation, spacing or whatever it is that makes the 35W pack longer.


 
I have an extension tube for my 24W  It was actually my idea, and design. Oracle stole it from me. :shakehead


----------



## Patriot

jasonck08 said:


> I have an extension tube for my 24W  It was actually my idea, and design. Oracle stole it from me. :shakehead




Sorry to hear that. I guess you would elaborate on that if you wanted to.



In any case, how much length does the extension tube add, is Oracle using the same design you presently have, and is the larger Oracle battery then used to make this set up work?

Thanks.


----------



## Patriot

Got the PM Jason. Thanks


----------



## LumenMan

I just got my 24w Oracle & I'm very happy with it so far lovecpf 

I have a question. Is the 10-14 second "warm up" until full output is reached (with a cold bulb) normal for this light? I have "burned in" the lamp per instructions from AAC & I've made sure that the battery pack is fully charge as well.


----------



## BVH

10 to 14 seconds is the minimum and 20 to 25 is more accurate.


----------



## LumenMan

Thank you for the info :thumbsup: I just wanted to make sure that my light was operating normally. This is my first HID light & I think I'm hooked ! :naughty:


----------



## CUL8R

My 24W showed up yesterday. I like the size a lot better than my 35W. Today I charged both batteries (I ordered the light with an extra battery), and tonight I just got thru testing the first one. I got 51 min and 50 seconds of run time. I did turn the light off at the 25 and 50 minute points for a 5 minute cool down each time. 52 minutes seems pretty good to me. I'll test the second battery tomorrow and see if it does as well. By the way, the brochure that came with the light mentions approximately 1hr of run time.

I also measured the battery length compared to the battery in my 35W. To be able to use the 35W's battery in the 24W, the extension tube for the 24W will be about 3" long. That should make the 24W come in at 12" long with the extension, vs 14.5" for the 35W.

Jim


----------



## LumenMan

CUL8R said:


> My 24W showed up yesterday. I like the size a lot better than my 35W. Today I charged both batteries (I ordered the light with an extra battery), and tonight I just got thru testing the first one. I got 51 min and 50 seconds of run time. I did turn the light off at the 25 and 50 minute points for a 5 minute cool down each time. 52 minutes seems pretty good to me. I'll test the second battery tomorrow and see if it does as well. By the way, the brochure that came with the light mentions approximately 1hr of run time.
> 
> I also measured the battery length compared to the battery in my 35W. To be able to use the 35W's battery in the 24W, the extension tube for the 24W will be about 3" long. That should make the 24W come in at 12" long with the extension, vs 14.5" for the 35W.
> 
> Jim


 
Jim,

If you don't mind me asking, how long does it take your 24W to reach maximum brightness with a cold lamp?


----------



## CUL8R

LumenMan said:


> Jim,
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, how long does it take your 24W to reach maximum brightness with a cold lamp?


 
Good question. I just went up to a dark room and tried to answer it. The light gets bright pretty quickly (4-8 seconds), but is brownish for a while. I'd say it was pretty near stable by 24-26 seconds. I watched it a little longer and it seems to change a very small amount until around the 45 second point. I don't think that change would be noticable in field use - outdoors with a moving beam. But it was noticable in a small dark room with no beam movement and nothing else to distract my attention.

Jim


----------



## CUL8R

Checked my second battery today and got 55minutes and 7 seconds. Even better then the first battery. I tested it the same way as the first one; 25 minutes on at a time, with a 5 minute cooldown after 25 and 50 minutes of runtime.

Jim


----------



## LumenMan

Jim,

Thank you so much for your very informative posts. I appreciate being "enlightened" by you :thumbsup:


----------



## BVH

I wonder if they've changed the cells in the newer batteries? Either that, or power levels have been reduced or maybe a ballast improvement.


----------



## Patriot

That's fairly impressive run time for this little light. Now I'll be wondering how they improved it so much.

I sure am eager to so what BVH's new battery pack can do.


----------



## BVH

In manufacturing as we speak!


----------



## jasonck08

BVH... are you the one doing the 3x 2900mah Panasonic cells?


----------



## BVH

yes. looking forward to - i'm guessing - 53 to 58 minutes of run time.


----------



## Ultrabright

Battery life for Oracle 24 W Flashlight. 

Hello. I am new to this forum  and was reading about the oracle 24w hid light and was where CUL8R found the "buyers corner" on the AAC website? I have searched and could not find it.


----------



## CUL8R

Ultrabright,

My bad. Instead of "buyers corner", It should be "Dealers Corner".

Here is a link to that thread: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=197479

Jim


----------



## Ultrabright

I called the technical department at AAC today and asked them about
my low battery runtime of 30 to 35 min , the guy said to return the batttery and they would send me a new one.


----------



## BVH

First run time test with the new Panasonic 2900 mah cells yielded exactly 55 minutes. I was hoping for a bit more but estimated it would be 53 to 58 so I was close. Test was one 55 minute run with a fan used to keep the light cool.


----------



## Patriot

That's great news Bob! How many times have those particular cells been cycled now and did you happen to take any pictures of the newly assembled pack?

Thanks.


----------



## BVH

No, didn't do any pack pics. These cells have 7 cycles now. I'll do another test later when I have more cycles. I wouldn't expect to gain much more than a minute or two. But, as Lux says, 55 minutes/1 hour in reality, is a lot of lighting time.


----------



## Patriot

BVH said:


> These cells have 7 cycles now. I'll do another test later when I have more cycles. I wouldn't expect to gain much more than a minute or two.





I think you're right. I normally see improved li-po performance up to ten charges but that's from a fully discharged state. The biggest jumps are made after the first three or four cycles though. 

Nice work Bob. :thumbsup:


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> First run time test with the new Panasonic 2900 mah cells yielded exactly 55 minutes. I was hoping for a bit more but estimated it would be 53 to 58 so I was close. Test was one 55 minute run with a fan used to keep the light cool.


 

Hi Bob,

That's great runtime. I'm sure with these improved quality cells, it'll remain pretty consistant for quite a while. 

BTW....I thought I was the only one that used a cooling fan on these flashlights when running tests..LOL. Nice :thumbsup:


----------



## BVH

After a full charge at a 1 Amp rate, a .1C discharge rate (200 ma) yielded only 1759 mah. So I would guess the original cells were no more than 1800 mah?


----------



## Richie086

I just topped off the new high power battery pack and testing full runtime now. I'll let you know what the numbers are :thumbsup:


----------



## Richie086

Hi Bob,

I just ran mine and got exactly 62 minutes to the second runtime until if flickered off. Very strange the difference between both our lights. There must be some sort of minor difference or quality control issue regarding the circuitry that the batteries connect to from one light to another. 

Anyway, the battery had a static charge of 12.35 volts and I topped them off to 12.55 volts and ran my test. Still, this amount of runtime makes me very happy. :twothumbs


----------



## BVH

That's great! Maybe I'll bump mine up to 12.6 and see if it makes a difference.


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> That's great! Maybe I'll bump mine up to 12.6 and see if it makes a difference.


 

I think I see what may also be giving me some extra runtime with these new batteries. Before charging the battery I allowed the pack to cool down for about an hour by the time I got around to recharging it. I put a volt meter on the pack and saw the static voltage was about 9.5 volts. If it was that low, it would be interesting to know how low the voltage was before the light actually flickered off. 

The funny thing is that the original batteries ran down to about that same amount when new. But as I used the light over the months, I noticed runtime became reduced and the light would actually flicker off at about 10.2-10.5 volts. Unless this is specific to this flashlight, it may be a good indication that the li-po's are getting long in the tooth. 

What do you think about that?:shrug:


----------



## Knights of Ni

Hello I am a new user so please excuse my ignorance.
Reading this entire post and the one for the 35w version, there seems to be more issues with this one.
I prefer the smaller form factor of this light, but if the 35w is superior then I would go with that one.
Question to the owners of this light, do you recommend it?
The forum deal now has 2 batteries, is this now a deal maker?
I have never owned a HID before and this price range is hard to pass on.
But if the consensus is to save more money, then I will
Regards 
Knights


----------



## BVH

The major problem was with the early "DC" version of the light. The newer AC versions seem to work good. And according to a couple of newer purchasers, they are getting 55 minutes or more of run time. Add a second battery and price it at $200 and I think this is a great way to start out with HID.


----------



## Richie086

BVH said:


> The major problem was with the early "DC" version of the light. The newer AC versions seem to work good. And according to a couple of newer purchasers, they are getting 55 minutes or more of run time. Add a second battery and price it at $200 and I think this is a great way to start out with HID.


 
I second that. Nothing wrong with the 24w version and I have no doubt you'll be happy with your purchase. Whichever you go with, the 24w or the 35w, it'll blow away any normal flashlight you've ever used. 

If you do order the 35w, make sure you are very clear with the retailer exactly what you want. There's 6000k or 4300k. There's a sigle mode battery and the better dual mode that is 35w and 28w that also has a lighted switch to identify which lighting mode the flashlight is operating in.


----------



## LOUSYGREATWALLGM

:welcome: Knights Of Ni. Please check your PM inbox


----------



## Patriot

:wave: Welcome to CPF Knight of Ni.

The compact 24W lights are very fun to own and use. I about fell over the first time I fired one up. You won't be disappointed with the performance of either, but compact lights have always been more fun for me personally.


----------



## Dude Dudeson

Good grief, have you guys seen this warehouse beamshot?


----------



## Richie086

Dude Dudeson said:


> Good grief, have you guys seen this warehouse beamshot?


 
Hey Dude, 

Check the link for your photo, I'm curious to see what it is your talking about. Thanks


----------



## Dude Dudeson

What, you can't see the image? Comes up fine here...


----------



## Patriot

Dude Dudeson said:


> you can't see the image?




Nope, nothing showing as of 2:44 mountain time.


----------



## BVH

no link, no photo, no nothin


----------



## Dude Dudeson

Ok this is weird, now I'm not seeing anything either, going to try uploading to imageshack again...

[img=http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5825/75930210.jpg]

Tried a link instead of image this time...

EDIT: And it worked just now, but not the second time, ok they must be having problems.....


----------



## LumenMan

I can see the pic in your post. Thanks for posting it !

I have a question. Is this light legal?! :huh::nana:

I absolutely love my 24X lovecpf


----------



## Patriot

Sorry, there's still no picture for me.


----------



## Dude Dudeson

Ok let's try it again, jeez...


----------



## Patriot

Ok, I can see it finally. So...they're calling it a "xenon 24x-9" now? That's just plain weird. I wonder why they chose to call it "xenon" instead of HID. Personally I thought the name Oracle 24W HID told the story.


----------



## Ultrabright

Knights of Ni said:


> Hello I am a new user so please excuse my ignorance.
> Reading this entire post and the one for the 35w version, there seems to be more issues with this one.
> I prefer the smaller form factor of this light, but if the 35w is superior then I would go with that one.
> Question to the owners of this light, do you recommend it?
> The forum deal now has 2 batteries, is this now a deal maker?
> I have never owned a HID before and this price range is hard to pass on.
> But if the consensus is to save more money, then I will
> Regards
> Knights


 
Hello! Where did you see this deal?
Thanks,
ultrabright


----------



## LOUSYGREATWALLGM

Ultrabright said:


> Hello! Where did you see this deal?
> Thanks,
> ultrabright


:welcome:Check your PM inbox.


----------



## JeffInChi

So it looks like I'm committed to purchase, in the very near future, the 24W Oracle as my first HID. I can see that AAC has a CPF deal link on one of the marketplace threads here, and as of this date (including shipping) it'll be 191.90 total price for this light (silver finish). Is there some sort of deal out there for this same light with an additional battery for a total of 2 batteries? If so: 
Thanks


----------



## KarlH

I have been following the battery talk on this and would like to get another battery myself. I am very happy with my 24w oracle except for the runtime, mine is 37-38 minutes the three times I have timed it. I just pulled it out to time it again, and I now have two yellow/brown area's in the beam. My oracle has been used at least 10 minutes a week min, and often have had it on until the low voltage kicked it off. Just saying the light has not sat unused for long at all, and just now is the first time the beam has remotely looked like this. I left it on until the battery shut off this morning, recharged it and this picture is 20 minutes into that run, the brown/yellow is not going away. Oh, I also rotated the light a few times during all that time. This is about the best picture I could get showing it, but it does not really show the second pie thaat is yellowish/brown about 120 degrees clockwise from the area you can see, the second area is not any where near as bad as the obvious spot, but is still very noticeable to the naked eye. I marked the second area with two red lines. I only purchased this in April of this year. Do the experts here think it is time to find out about the warranty?
F2.7 1/1600s daylight wb canon powershot s2


----------



## BVH

Most of my HID's have yellow/brown pies - some larger and more pronounced than others but pretty much visible. Even my Barn Burner has one. I don't know why yours is more pronounced now than when you first got it. It's just the salts showing up. Look closely at the bulb when it's cold and you'll probably see the yellow stuff in the arc chamber.


----------



## KarlH

BVH said:


> Most of my HID's have yellow/brown pies - some larger and more pronounced than others but pretty much visible. Even my Barn Burner has one. I don't know why yours is more pronounced now than when you first got it. It's just the salts showing up. Look closely at the bulb when it's cold and you'll probably see the yellow stuff in the arc chamber.


 

It's not more pronounced, it was never like that at all, none, nada, zip before. It just showed up this morning when I turned it on to check battery run time again.


----------



## Patriot

KarlH said:


> It's not more pronounced, it was never like that at all, none, nada, zip before. It just showed up this morning when I turned it on to check battery run time again.




Just going from your beamshot, it seems to me that your light has a problem with the bulb itself. Those colors aren't normal in that quantity. Do you have burned or cooked looking area on the inside of your bulb?


----------



## Richie086

KarlH said:


> I have been following the battery talk on this and would like to get another battery myself. I am very happy with my 24w oracle except for the runtime, mine is 37-38 minutes the three times I have timed it. I just pulled it out to time it again, and I now have two yellow/brown area's in the beam.


 

Hi there Karl,

Here is a beam shot I just snapped of mine for comparison. Naturally the camera lens picks up more detail than the human eye would, but mine does have some yellow in one part of the beam. In fact, I recall even my modified "Power on Board" 4300k 35 watter does also after installing the 4300k bulb. I will admit, yours appears to be a bit on the heavy side. I'd check and see if the return wire on the bulb is bent out of shape. 

Please note there is very little clearance between the wire and the actual reflector. It's possible while you were adjusting the adjustable beam, the return wire may have rubbed on the reflector and caused a slight misalignment. I believe this may have happened, but it isn't your fault. However, it needs to be looked at and checked. Let us know the outcome of your examination.


----------



## KarlH

It is closer to brown than yellow and it is very significant, you cannot miss it. It jumps out at you far worse than the picture I posted. I looked at the bulb and it looks fine, no damage to the wire either. Pictures coming up of the bulb.

Any shading you may see in the bulb is just from reflections, no matter how I hold it and rotate it, the center of the bulb is perfectly homogenous in tint. No dark areas and no light areas. In my original pic, you can see the shadow from the wire at 3 oclock.


----------



## Richie086

KarlH said:


> I looked at the bulb and it looks fine, no damage to the wire either. Pictures coming up of the bulb.


 

Hi Karl,

You're correct and all looks fine to me. You'll need to contact Justin and link him to the photos so he can see it too. Ask to have it switched out for another.


----------



## Ultrabright

Hello! I ordered one of the 2 battery deals, it came last week and I charged both batteries and tested runtimes. The first battery, which had a different sticker (it has a Danger High Voltage emblem on it) than the other battery, lasted about 53 minutes:twothumbs, the one with the original type sticker lasted 15 minutes:thumbsdow. My original battery (I now have 3) lasts about 35 minutes. So I conclude the old sticker batteries are just no good. I called AAC about this and they said send them back and we will send new ones. I will test the new ones when they come, and post the results.

How do you post a picture without the http link?


----------



## Ultrabright

Here is a picture:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5128/img0058ahi.jpg


----------



## Light Brite

I just received today my oracle 24W with the two battery option and an optional smo reflector. Disappointing in that one of the two batteries seems DOA. It reads 0 voltage on DMM (with switch on) and or course the light the doesn't work with that particular battery either, although the battery leds work fine. I guess I will have to work that out with the supplier. This is my first HID so I am waiting for it to get a little darker to really try it out. The only thing I will have to compare it to will be my M30 MCE, so we will see. Thanks to all for the great information provided here on CPF, especially to those who have the time and ability to really get into so much of the details that have helped me learn so much.


----------



## Patriot

Light Brite said:


> The only thing I will have to compare it to will be my M30 MCE, so we will see.




Get ready for a surprise! oo:


----------



## Light Brite

Ok I have tested it and now regret buying it. Why? looks over at collection of led light...hmmmm their so cute. Looks at HID...woa. Seriously this is a whole other animal but I do like the compact efficiency of those Leds. Hmmm..ok the HID is seriously cool too!


----------



## Patriot

Every flashaholic can enjoy one, that's for sure! Have fun tonight. :wave:


----------



## Light Brite

I took a closer look at the one battery for this light that did not work. As mentioned before the buit in leds did work yet voltage at output terminals was 0. Upon a little closer examination I was able to detect almost 12 volts at the input socket. So I guess the problem is not with the batteries themselves.


----------



## jtrucktools34

I finally pulled the trigger on this light!! Here's hoping I waited long enough for them go removed all the bugs! The two battery deal was too good to pass on. 

Feeling a little :sick2: with anticipation! This is my first HID (Xenon) or what ever it is called. Now I feel like a true FLASHAHOLIC. 

Thanks to all for posting your experiences with this light


----------



## Ultrabright

Hello! I sent the two batteries back to AAC and they sent the same two batteries back to me with a new charger, saying that was the problem. So I called them up and said "what gives?" They told me they tested the batteries and they both got 45 minutes use, not true. Now I'm getting kind of peeved with them. :shakehead I told them I want two of the new style batteries to replace the old ones. They said send them back and they will do it.
I got the new batteries back last week, tested them and both ran for at least 55 minutes. I am quite happy with this.


----------



## Ultrabright

Light Brite said:


> I just received today my oracle 24W with the two battery option and an optional smo reflector. Disappointing in that one of the two batteries seems DOA. It reads 0 voltage on DMM (with switch on) and or course the light the doesn't work with that particular battery either, although the battery leds work fine. I guess I will have to work that out with the supplier. This is my first HID so I am waiting for it to get a little darker to really try it out. The only thing I will have to compare it to will be my M30 MCE, so we will see. Thanks to all for the great information provided here on CPF, especially to those who have the time and ability to really get into so much of the details that have helped me learn so much.


 
What is an smo reflector? I assume this means smooth. And where did you see this option offered?


----------



## Patriot

Ultrabright said:


> What is an smo reflector? I assume this means smooth. And where did you see this option offered?





Yes, it's smooth.

On this page look at the middle right and it says, "Spotlight reflector option."
The pull down gives a price of $19.00. That's it.


----------



## jtrucktools34

Patriot said:


> Yes, it's smooth.
> 
> On this page look at the middle right and it says, "Spotlight reflector option."
> The pull down gives a price of $19.00. That's it.



This doesn't seem to be the link to the "two battery option". On that page it doesn't have the reflector option box.


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## decepticrock

Patriot said:


> Yes, it's smooth.
> 
> On this page look at the middle right and it says, "Spotlight reflector option."
> The pull down gives a price of $19.00. That's it.



I just called AAC and ordered this reflector. Came to about 26 dollars with shipping. I'm interested to see how it throws with this.


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## Patriot

jtrucktools34 said:


> This doesn't seem to be the link to the "two battery option". On that page it doesn't have the reflector option box.





It's right under the upper most cart and wish list. The previous posted seems to have found it and ordered one.


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## Light Brite

The best way to find what appears to be all the options for these lights on AAC's site is to go there and search on "24W". Hope that helps.


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## lozninja

Decepticrop please let me know how you get on with the smooth reflector , This is something i would try if it make's a considerable difference in throw ??????



Many Thanks 


lozninja


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## decepticrock

I got the smooth "spotlight" reflector delivered today. I can't really say I'm too impressed with it. There are several "rings" of spill light. It also came slightly damaged so I'm going to have to see about getting it replaced.

This first picture is of the light on my ceiling.







This is across my yard, about 70 or 80 feet to that tree.






This next one is across a field. Tree is maybe 80 yards away.






And lastly, here's my damaged reflector. That spot you see is a warped spot.






I'm kind of disappointed. I'm trying to decide if I'd be disappointed getting the 35 watt version.

Sorry I didn't get a photo the rings of the spill I was talking about.


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## Patriot

Too bad about the defect. I guess the beam is fairly typical of a smooth reflector and non-premium bulb. They'll throw better but the beam isn't pretty.


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## jtrucktools34

Well, Back to the battery issue. Apparently AAC still has some "junk" batteries sitting around. I received my order and one of the batteries was DOA. It would not take a charge. In fact, the LED on the charger turns red while charging and when I plugged this battery into it the LED went completely out. I have e-mailed AAC but have not received a response from them yet. The kicker is that when I placed the order I asked them if they test everything before it leave their facility to make sure it was all operating. This was their response...

_* "Yes we do test all flashlights before they ship. We have in fact had some problems in the past with the batteries. We have corrected the battery issue." *_


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## Patriot

Well, that's a real kicker isn't it. Sorry you're having a battery issue. I would definitely call them and post a "hello?" in their sales thread in the CPF Market Place. I might start limiting my support of this light to only Tactical HID if AAC doesn't stop sending people bad batteries. In this case, it would have been a very easy for them to have caught the problem had they tested it as advertised. :shakehead Dropping in a battery and turning the light on for a minute shouldn't be a difficult task, especially when they know it's for a CPF member.


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## jtrucktools34

Yep!

You nailed it. I even told them when I made the purchase that I was a member and I had read on CPF they had battery/charger issues. That is when they sent me the quoted e-mail. The battery shipped in the case was the "good" one so they may have tested that one but the second one packaged separately was the "bad" one. I could not even get the LED's to light. It acts like it is shorted out. When I plugged the charger into it it would throw a small spark. Also to address the new vs. old style battery. (one with a Danger High Voltage sticker and one with out) both of my batteries had the same labeling "Danger High Voltage" which is what I thought was the new style. 

Having said all that I am confident AAC will take care of this issue. I have not heard back from them yet but I expect to today. If not I will be calling. They seem to have a good CS record. That is one reason I chose to buy the Oracle over the Tactical HID. And if anyone is wondering... THIS LIGHT ROCKS!! :devil::devil::devil:

I did a runtime test on my "good" battery yesterday. 52min!! :thumbsup:

I do also notice a large brown "pie" in the beam which becomes more pronounced as the light runs longer. I can see a brown/green residue inside the bulb when it is off. I am just so impressed with the output this light it doesn't really bother me. 

Well enough of my 2C


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## lapsmith

I just got a complete replacement flashlight from Justin (AAC) because the light would only last for 6 minutes on a charge, so I must say their customer service is excellent. 

It ran for about 45 minutes on the first charge so that is a good sign. But I noticed again with this replacement that after 15-20 minutes, the housing is way too hot to hold. After 45 minutes, you could burn yourself if you tried to pick it up and hold it for more than a few seconds. With all the tests other people have done, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before. Has anyone else seen this or am I just too sensitive?

Tom


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## BVH

It's been noticed and remarked about. I've made a few posts about conducting uninterrupted run time tests and having to use a fan to keep it somewhat cool. Any HID that runs for 20 minutes or more is going to get very warm to hot, depending on the light.


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## ndompierre

labsmith, you got lucky to not destroy your battery pack leaving the flashlight runnig so long. I ran my oracle 35w for 60 minutes and after that the battery was destroyed. I opened up the battery pack and the wires (gauge 18, really thin) inside got unsoldered from the tabs. Also 2 of the battery inside the pack of 6 read 0 volts (direct read, without charge controller). I rebuild the pack with 6x18650 laptob batteries. So, use cooling when using it more than 20 minutes !


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## BVH

I'd actually recommend active cooling for anything after 15 minutes and probably less with 35 Watts and above if the light is sitting static, not held by hands, and of course if the ambient temp is in the 60's and above.


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## lapsmith

Thanks guys. I'm glad to know it is "normal". Still a great flashlight!

Tom


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## jimmyjames

Was seriously considering one of these from either vendor until reading this thread. Don't need CS headaches after having a bad Jetbeam M1X, Olight T20 and Ultrafire 6P knockoff. QC/QA on flashlights is just terrible. You about have to order 2 and hope you get one that works.


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## LOUSYGREATWALLGM

jimmyjames said:


> Was seriously considering one of these from either vendor until reading this thread. Don't need CS headaches after having a bad Jetbeam M1X, Olight T20 and Ultrafire 6P knockoff. QC/QA on flashlights is just terrible. You about have to order 2 and hope you get one that works.


 pm sent regarding the bad M1X


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## jtrucktools34

lapsmith said:


> I just got a complete replacement flashlight from Justin (AAC) because the light would only last for 6 minutes on a charge, so I must say their customer service is excellent.
> 
> It ran for about 45 minutes on the first charge so that is a good sign. But I noticed again with this replacement that after 15-20 minutes, the housing is way too hot to hold. After 45 minutes, you could burn yourself if you tried to pick it up and hold it for more than a few seconds. With all the tests other people have done, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this before. Has anyone else seen this or am I just too sensitive?
> 
> Tom




I ran my 24x9 for a full 53min run-test before it shut off. I did not know it was a problem letting them sit static for a full run so I guess I got lucky as well. I monitored the temp of the light throughout the run and found the final temps were 105 deg. on the tail-cap, 110 deg. on the handle portion, 127 deg. on the head/bezel and for kicks I measured the reflector at 230 deg. I could still hold the handle of the light but it was somewhat uncomfortably warm. By the way the Ambient was 68 deg.


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## Patriot

jimmyjames said:


> Was seriously considering one of these from either vendor until reading this thread. Don't need CS headaches after having a bad Jetbeam M1X, Olight T20 and Ultrafire 6P knockoff. QC/QA on flashlights is just terrible. You about have to order 2 and hope you get one that works.




I think the overall consensus has been pretty positive for the Tactical and Oracle. Sorry about your flashlight problems but perhaps you're just experiencing a run of bad luck. I've find that most of my flashlight product purchases have been defect free.


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## LumenMan

Patriot said:


> I think the overall consensus has been pretty positive for the Tactical and Oracle. Sorry about your flashlight problems but perhaps you're just experiencing a run of bad luck. I've find that most of my flashlight product purchases have been defect free.


 
I too have had zero issues with my Oracle 24W lovecpf


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## asutherland

LumenMan said:


> I too have had zero issues with my Oracle 24W lovecpf


 
Same here!:twothumbs


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## GTO_04

Patriot said:


> You might be correct about the AE lights. I've heard that some people who have left the batteries charging for and excessively long time have had to "reset" the light. At least the manual has instructions about how to do so. Thanks AE! :thumbsup:


 

That happened with my AEX-20. But I did not leave the battery excessively long on the charger after it was done, just a few minutes. The reset procedure did not work and I had to send the battery back for a replacement.

Has anyone tried the reset procedure, and did it work?

GTO_04


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## LumenMan

I didn't know about the reset feature ! I guess that I really should actually read the manual


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## mike_s

Richie086 said:


> ROFL Bob :laughing: This is the last flashlight for me for a while. Damn, I actually need a diving light to do some scuba diving with my friend here on Long Island this summer. Okay, just one more in the coming months...LOL




Did you get this for diving? 

does it have a double o-ring?


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## Misan

In our city the same HID Flashlight sell under other brand :duh2: - MagicShine MJ-HD802 and its price is $290 (the equivalent of our currency) . It's interesting the quality is the same? :thinking: 
Judging by the reviews in this thread - it something worthwhile, I'll think of the acquisition.


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## LumenMan

Dude Dudeson said:


> Ok let's try it again, jeez...


 
I never get tired of looking at this beamshot! lovecpf


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## Nos

KarlH said:


> I have been following the battery talk on this and would like to get another battery myself. I am very happy with my 24w oracle except for the runtime, mine is 37-38 minutes the three times I have timed it. I just pulled it out to time it again, and I now have two yellow/brown area's in the beam. My oracle has been used at least 10 minutes a week min, and often have had it on until the low voltage kicked it off. Just saying the light has not sat unused for long at all, and just now is the first time the beam has remotely looked like this. I left it on until the battery shut off this morning, recharged it and this picture is 20 minutes into that run, the brown/yellow is not going away. Oh, I also rotated the light a few times during all that time. This is about the best picture I could get showing it, but it does not really show the second pie thaat is yellowish/brown about 120 degrees clockwise from the area you can see, the second area is not any where near as bad as the obvious spot, but is still very noticeable to the naked eye. I marked the second area with two red lines. I only purchased this in April of this year. Do the experts here think it is time to find out about the warranty?
> F2.7 1/1600s daylight wb canon powershot s2




The yellow/brown area is typical for any HID, sometimes it is very visible and sometimes less. What causes the brown area are the salts at the bottom of the bulb, which filter the white light and make it yellow. The reflector turns the beam around, so its on the upper side of the beam.

If you turn your lamp those melted salts travel down the arc chamber again. I noticed this effect on any HID, low power or high, budget or premium bulb/ballast doesnt matter. Its HIDs nature.


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## rtrt2889

Hello,

I am interested in buying a Oracle 35W Flashlight. And I was wondering how I would do that,I heard there is a forum discount. I have 4 Fenix light, but I am interested in an HID flashlight.

Thanks


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