# Maglight Solitaire - Why not an LED?



## R28 (Mar 22, 2012)

The Maglight Solitaire is not LED - why do you people think that Maglight does not move ahead and improve this light?


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## Tomcat! (Mar 22, 2012)

I've often wondered this myself. I used to have a stock incan Solitaire as my keychain light many years ago, but it was such an unreliable POS that I stopped using it. Since joining CPF I've seen so many advances in LED technology and the advent of LEDs in the Mag product line, that it seemed like a no brainier that they would update the Solitaire, but still nothing. I thought perhaps that maybe there are too many competitors in the AAA size. Certainly the folk here can easily rattle off the names of a great number of quality AAA lights, but then I realised that Mag has always been about providing decent lights for the masses, and I can't say that I've noticed many alu lights at that size for Joe and Josephine Public in shops. (At least not outside the US.) It seems like such a glaring gap in their product line, yet I can't fathom why Mag appears to have dropped the Solitaire. I would have thought it might sit pretty well with regular folk, especially if the already own another Mag.


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## tam17 (Mar 23, 2012)

That would be nice, and there is already a CPF thread regarding LED Solitaire.I was hoping to see New Soli at the recent Shot Show, but still not a word from Mag. It was unofficially announced (i.e. in replies to customer e-mail enquiries) first for xmas 2011, and then for early 2012. I guess any announcement from Mag must be taken with a grain of salt...

Cheers,

Tam


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## ragweed (Mar 24, 2012)

My Solitaire is reliable but, the beam is pathetic IMO. I don't think Mag can compete with the AAA lights already out there.


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## hank (Mar 24, 2012)

There's an old dropin been around a long time; usually too expensive to be worthwhile, though.


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## Changchung (Mar 24, 2012)

hank said:


> There's an old dropin been around a long time; usually too expensive to be worthwhile, though.



Yeap... I have one of those and two solitaires yet...

I really like them


SFMI4UT


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## chriztt (Mar 25, 2012)

ragweed said:


> My Solitaire is reliable but, the beam is pathetic IMO. I don't think Mag can compete with the AAA lights already out there.



^This^ I have a solitaire and do not use it more b/c of its weak beam. An LED version might change this though.


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## gsr (Mar 26, 2012)

The Solitare has a style that defined its segment, but I have to agree with others that the output of the Solitare is barely better than useless. I would love to see a Solitare LED, but I am not holding my breath. It would be very difficult to meet the price point of competitive products while keeping the production in the US.


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## ficklampa (Mar 27, 2012)

gsr said:


> The Solitare has a style that defined its segment, but I have to agree with others that the output of the Solitare is barely better than useless. I would love to see a Solitare LED, but I am not holding my breath. It would be very difficult to meet the price point of competitive products while keeping the production in the US.



Well, depends on how advanced they want to go. If they just want to do a single mode they can just go for a 3/5mm LED and remake the holder for it. If they want multiple modes, sure, maybe cheaper to do it outside of the US. 

I sure love the formfactor of the Solitare, but like you all say it's pretty useless. Even my Leatherman Monarch 200 which runs on 3xLR44 and uses a 5mm led is better...


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## Chrontius (Mar 27, 2012)

Realistically, all they need to do is build a clone of the Arc or Fenix E01. If they want to make it impressive, they'll do it with a TIR optic cast-in-place inside an aluminum reflector, and it'll even make getting an adequate seal easier.

Don't forget - Mag has been automating everything automatable. They can go _very_ far with very modest labor costs.


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## Cataract (Mar 28, 2012)

hank said:


> There's an old dropin been around a long time; usually too expensive to be worthwhile, though.



Yes... I almost bought it, but I think it was more expensive than my solitaire itself. Then came a cheaper AAA light which bumped my solitaire from backup in the car to backup of the backup. 

The beamshots where very interesting, though. Day and night compared to the stock solitaire.


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## Kitchen Panda (Mar 31, 2012)

R28 said:


> The Maglight Solitaire is not LED - why do you people think that Maglight does not move ahead and improve this light?


There's got to be some market research reason behind it. Evidently Rayovac found a demand for a AAA LED penlight, and last time I was in a store belonging to a certain widespread discount retailer I found the Rayovac LED was selling for about a dollar less than the Mag Solitaire incandescent. At the price point of the Solitaire many's the time I've wanted to buy one as a give-away, but the thought of the tiny spot of brownish light and the idea that the light would quickly become a junk drawer item has discouraged me every time. 

How hard can it be to make a flashlight? Everybody who can turn aluminum in Shanghai is making them...surely Mag could bring out a $10, AAA that did 30 lumens and that would rule every keychain. 

Oh well. I'm still boggled at the Illuminati that fits through a wedding ring and can put out about 100 lumens...mind you, at about 5 times the price of a Solitaire. 

Bill


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## WDG (Apr 3, 2012)

I definitely agree Mag should upgrade the Solitaire, and when I recently looked at their line-up, was surprised they hadn't already done so.

Around 2007, I had a Sandwich Shoppe drop-in in my Solitaire, and rather liked it until it died. Too expensive for the short lifespan, so the Solitaire and I parted company. I've got some cheap AAA lights I keep as pocket lights, now.


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## leon2245 (Apr 3, 2012)

R28 said:


> The Maglight Solitaire is not LED - why do you people think that Maglight does not move ahead and improve this light?



_You people?!


_no I've been waiting for an LED solitaire myself. Just hope if/when it gets here it remains a solitaire, only an LED version- no accelerometers or ramping strobes. Although I wouldn't mind an AA version of it too, or of the E01, or E05 etc.


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## tacticaltony (Apr 3, 2012)

Maglite has been a American household name. Everyone has had a maglite, known for dependability. Yes there are a lot of competitors from overseas, but none have lifetime warranties, and I suspect their not completely honest with their ANSI/fl1 standards. I really do hope they find this these and make it into a brigh led. I would be confident using it as my backup edc


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## fyrstormer (Apr 3, 2012)

My guess is, they haven't upgraded the Solitaire because adding the necessary driver circuit would make the light too expensive to be competitive. Similar lights can be had for less than $20 which have harder anodizing and multiple modes.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Apr 3, 2012)

I think it's too little, too late. We already have the Fenix EO1 and plenty of high powered 1AAA lights from $20 and up. Mag would have to make one for around $10 with a decent l.e.d. to even have a chance of selling the product. Mags don't really have regulation and without it, a 1AAA light would get dim quickly. I can see an unregulated light with a cheap Cree XP-C being a possibility at that price, but nothing having a chance to corner the market.


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## eh4 (Apr 3, 2012)

Are they still making them?!
When I see them on the shelf I always assumed that it was old inventory that hadn't sold, and not being into stocking and marketing I don't know, but assumed that there was some kind of standing arraingement (can't spell) with supplier and dealer that kept old unmoving dead wood in circulation as just another market inefficiency.


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## somnambulated (Apr 4, 2012)

Mag's strategy, like a lot of American companies, is to keep selling an outdated product for as long as they can, because their customer base doesn't know any better, and they think it will still sell.


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## Narcosynthesis (Apr 7, 2012)

I will have to admit I am a bit baffled about the still vacant hole in the Maglite lineup for an LED solitaire...

Certainly nowadays there are multiple options out there for an AAA LED light - Fenix, Preons, etc... - but none of those have the mass market appeal of Maglite. A lot of the general public still see Maglite as a high quality and reliable light (going on the amount of D cell lights out there and incan solitaires on keychains), so it is irrelevant if you can get a Fenix e01 for under $15, they have no idea who Fenix are, don't see them in shops regularly and would still gobble up an LED solitaire even if it was otherwise identical to the Fenix. Especially once you add in the Maglite supply chain and the ease you can find them in real stores versus having to order online.

I don't know if/when they release anything it will be worth buying over the LD01 or e01 I already own, but I would certainly be interested...


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## ev13wt (Apr 12, 2012)

somnambulated said:


> Mag's strategy, like a lot of American companies, is to keep selling an outdated product for as long as they can, because their customer base doesn't know any better, and they think it will still sell.




1. Small light? Mag.
2. Why Mag? The big ones are the best flashlights in the world.
3. Goes to store, buys.
4. Buys batteries. 
5. Breaks bulb. Why? Dropped it. Whos fault? His.
6. Looks for new bulb, buys new light because its so cheap.
7. buys batteries.
8. Drops light

and so on and so forth.

Why change a working system?


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## Monocrom (Apr 13, 2012)

tacticaltony said:


> Maglite has been a American household name. Everyone has had a maglite, known for dependability. Yes there are a lot of competitors from overseas, but none have lifetime warranties, and I suspect their not completely honest with their ANSI/fl1 standards. I really do hope they find this these and make it into a brigh led. I would be confident using it as my backup edc



I've had three fail on me. Including a 3D model that literally fell apart in my hands as I was checking the batteries. The only use it ever saw in 3 years was riding underneath the front seat of my car. Don't believe the hype.

Out of all the flashlights I own (far too many to even try to count) the only truly dependable ones I've found are the models from SureFire that feature simple construction and use a momentary tailcap switch.


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## Woods Walker (Apr 14, 2012)

It does have a nice tint. I rather like mine even with the hot wires. Granted I go with an E01 or iTP in AAA for EDC because of the low output and runtimes of the Solitaire . Not sure why [email protected] never put an LED in it.


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## ZMZ67 (Apr 15, 2012)

tam17 said:


> That would be nice, and there is already a CPF thread regarding LED Solitaire.I was hoping to see New Soli at the recent Shot Show, but still not a word from Mag. It was unofficially announced (i.e. in replies to customer e-mail enquiries) first for xmas 2011, and then for early 2012. I guess any announcement from Mag must be taken with a grain of salt...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tam



I e-mailed Mag.......around 4 years ago I think and they told me about the C-cell LED Mags they were going to be released soon.The C-cells just hit the market last year didn't they? If Mag said they are going to produce a solitare my guess is it is still a few years away but at least it may be coming.With so many small bright lights in the market I think Mag will eventually be forced to produce something,though I wonder how it will stack up against the competition.


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## Jamamp (Apr 15, 2012)

I have a Maglite Solitaire I got many years ago in a double-pack at Walmart. I can't see them selling too well as my itp a3 on low blows it out of the water. Damn I love that little a3!


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## tam17 (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm not sure how much user feedback (from an average Joe, flashlight community, LE and security officers...) Mag folks take into account when they lay down the concept of a new flashlight, but I sincerely hope there is someone at their HQ who is reading this and other threads re. their lights.

The only way I'm going to continue buying their stuff is if they keep it simple and reliable. There are 1xAAA pocket rockets out there, equipped with clicky switches, strobes/SOS signalling, user-defined multiple levels, 10440 support and max. outputs exceeding 100lm, but all that has no real meaning for an average buyer who will be satisfied with a simple, small, single-level XP-C, XP-E or even P9 twisty hanging from his/hers keychain, able to produce 25lm of neutral floody light when it's needed. Think about popularity of Fenix E01 and E05. That's just my 0.02lm.


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm thinking the LED solitaire requires almost a complete redesign as the tiny size has to include a boost circuit and change reflectors possibly adding a longer one. If they go with a 5mm LED then pricing has to be lower than with a more powerful LED solution. In a light that uses a AAA battery either they will have to include a lithium battery or use an underdriven cree in it so it will give somewhat useful runtimes off alkaline batteries. If they could do as dorcy did with their AAA LED light but one better put a cree in it and multimode driver and offer it for $15 or less it could sell but the average person may look at it and spend $5 more for a 2AA or 3AAA light instead.


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## fyrstormer (Apr 16, 2012)

The only times I've seen Solitaires outside of stores is in gift boxes, usually with corporate logos etched on them. I'm not sure anyone has ever bought them for more than novelty value.


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## Sub_Umbra (Apr 16, 2012)

To understand why the Solitaire will never be updated one must understand a few facts about it's origin. It's all here if you look for it. Once you know *who* designed it and how their lives are different today it all makes perfect sense.

I would go so far as to say that before the Solitaire is updated it will more likely be *replaced* by a totally different design for a 1xAAA LED light with a *new name.*


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## budynabuick (Apr 16, 2012)

somnambulated said:


> Mag's strategy, like a lot of American companies, is to keep selling an outdated product for as long as they can, because their customer base doesn't know any better, and they think it will still sell.



It must be working. I showed my my MIX6 and the next time I saw him he gifted me Solitaire. I guess he wanted me too have a REAL light LOL.
Keith (who has a 2xAAA XML T6 Mag coming)


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## LEDninja (Apr 16, 2012)

The MiniMaglight Pro is 226 lumens single mode.
The MiniMaglight Pro+ is 245 lumens 2 mode.
None of those annoying blinking modes the Chinese manufacturers are so fond of. No funny lithium batteries either. Good old Coppertops.
Under $30.

Mag can compete when they get around to it.


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## shelm (Apr 16, 2012)

Sub_Umbra said:


> To understand why the Solitaire will never be updated one must understand a few facts about it's origin. It's all here if you look for it. Once you know *who* designed it and how their lives are different today it all makes perfect sense.


i dont know the story..
any link


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## EZO (Apr 16, 2012)

*Re: MagLite Solitaire - Why not an LED?*

With the many appealing AAA lights available today an LED MagLite seems besides the point. It does seem odd that they still offer this obsolete product but they must be selling them to _somebody_.

I've had a couple of these kicking around in a drawer for years. Recently I pulled one out, cleaned up the contacts and popped in a battery just for fun. Well, it turns out that the ol' incan Solitaire is an excellent bedside light for those times when you don't need or want a higher output. (MagLite rates the Solitaire at 2 lumens) Of course, I have various lights with better low lumen settings and performance that I usually use for this purpose but it's been fun to find a use for one of these old little lights. If you stop to think about all the discussion here at CPF about the desire for low lumen settings and Hi CRI output, the old Solitaire might still be relevant. And the candle mode with the head removed on this light is still an excellent feature that wouldn't be available with an LED......it is a true "candle mode".


P.S. With respect to the OP and a few other posters here, I've taken the liberty of changing the title of this thread to reflect the correct spelling for the name of the company.


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## fyrstormer (Apr 16, 2012)

Sub_Umbra said:


> To understand why the Solitaire will never be updated one must understand a few facts about it's origin. It's all here if you look for it. Once you know *who* designed it and how their lives are different today it all makes perfect sense.
> 
> I would go so far as to say that before the Solitaire is updated it will more likely be *replaced* by a totally different design for a 1xAAA LED light with a *new name.*


Fascinating. What are the secret answers we're all failing to notice?


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## fyrstormer (Apr 16, 2012)

*Re: MagLite Solitaire - Why not an LED?*



EZO said:


> I've had a couple of these kicking around in a drawer for years. Recently I pulled one out, cleaned up the contacts and popped in a battery just for fun. Well, it turns out that the ol' incan Solitaire is an excellent bedside light for those times when you don't need or want a higher put.


I modded one of my McGizmo Sapphire 25s with a warm Nichia DS (I mean _really_ warm, like a low-voltage incan bulb), and I'm guessing it will run a lot longer than the Solitaire. It's just a shame the Sapphire 25 costs $150 apiece _and_ is the only easily-modded 5mm LED light on the market right now. Everyone else seals up their 1xAAA lights with epoxy, as best I can tell.


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## Sub_Umbra (Apr 16, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> Fascinating. What are the secret answers we're all failing to notice?


In a nutshell:

Man and woman marry.
Woman designs Solitaire.
Man and woman divorce.
Man eventually modifies and updates all of *his* light designs that are not *legally encumbered.*

Tha-tha-tha-that's all, folks!


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## WDG (Apr 17, 2012)

*Re: MagLite Solitaire - Why not an LED?*



EZO said:


> ...they must be selling them to _somebody_...



Without knowing any actual numbers, it would not surprise me to discover it's sold primarily as a corporate logoed promotional item. That's what mine was, along the my two AAA MiniMags.


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## EZO (Apr 17, 2012)

*Re: MagLite Solitaire - Why not an LED?*

WDG, I saw Mag Solitaires offered for sale at the local Walmart yesterday and your post prompted me to do a little searching. They seem to be widely sold on eBay and elsewhere in a range of colors. Surprisingly, the eBay search turned up the previously mentioned LED upgrade kit. I didn't realize those were still available.


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## tam17 (Apr 17, 2012)

*Re: MagLite Solitaire - Why not an LED?*



WDG said:


> Without knowing any actual numbers, it would not surprise me to discover it's sold primarily as a corporate logoed promotional item. That's what mine was, along the my two AAA MiniMags.



Not necessary, they're still exported and sold worldwide. Their price here hit the rock bottom this year (around EUR 6.00 in a B&M store). That calls for a change...


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## TheSilverman (Jun 20, 2012)

Sub_Umbra said:


> To understand why the Solitaire will never be updated one must understand a few facts about it's origin. It's all here if you look for it. Once you know *who* designed it and how their lives are different today it all makes perfect sense.
> 
> I would go so far as to say that before the Solitaire is updated it will more likely be *replaced* by a totally different design for a 1xAAA LED light with a *new name.*




Actually, the new *Mag-Lite Solitaire LED* was announced a few weeks ago. Same design, same name.


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## ragweed (Jun 20, 2012)

I have to see it to believe it! If its any good I will pick up a few.


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## tam17 (Jun 21, 2012)

TheSilverman said:


> Actually, the new *Mag-Lite Solitaire LED* was announced a few weeks ago. Same design, same name.



I assume this was Mag's official announcement, or..?

Any links?

----------------------------------------------

*EDIT: Found something HERE*


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## Blue72 (Jun 21, 2012)

See Rule #3 Do not Hot Link images – Norm


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## Blue72 (Jun 21, 2012)

You can read about the divorce in the owners Wikipedia page. It is very interesting including his stepsons new flashlight business that he sued out of existence. They had advance flashlights for its day. I wanted the headlamp

You can see the archived website here for bison flashlights

http://web.archive.org/web/20011216213435/http://www.bisonsportslights.com/Products/Products.html


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## tam17 (Jun 21, 2012)

Here are some of my initial observations regarding the Mag Solitaire LED:

- 37lm is more than enough light for a general close-up work, and maybe even too much for finding a keyhole - I'd be satisfied with floody 25lm and a bit longer runtime, but I'm glad that Mag folks built this light around a moderately driven power LED (most likely XP-C or similar IMO) and not around 5mm LED. Perhaps an easy emitter swap would be possible..?
- UI remains the same (or so it seems) as on the original Soli. It would be a shame if they've given up the "tighten-2-turn-off" feature that some CPF users (incl. myself) wish to have. 
- Compared to a competing product, for example Pelican 1910 (39lm, 1AAA single mode), Soli's runtime looks OK (1hr30 vs. 1hr00), which means it has good driver efficiency (hope it's regulated!)
- Focusing ability...? Uhm, be prepared for a ringy beam. Wish they dropped that, but this feature might provide the "candle mode" when the bezel is off.
- Looks like water ingress protection is IPX-4 only. Not a deal breaker for me, with some maintenance that's quite enough for regular EDCing.
- Considering the Mag's worldwide availability, this could be the entry level LED flashlight for many of those "non-enlightened" average users, used to nothing better than incan bulbs and alkaline batteries (hope the Mag folks get the right price!)

Cheers


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 21, 2012)

tam17 said:


> most likely XP-C or similar IMO


That would be good. I'd just wonder what the price would be. 

The old solitaire was my first torch ever and pretty much got me into the whole flashlight thing back in 1988. I don't know if anything has changed about it since then but this is the first development for 24 years


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 21, 2012)

I think the price will be what makes or breaks the solitaire LED version... I am guessing $12.99 myself if they can manage under $10 I think many will buy it.


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## Monocrom (Jun 21, 2012)

37 lumens . . . That is going to be way too bright for the average non-flashaholic, for keychain duty.

Also, still behind the times regarding the competition. I'll stick with my "classic" Fenix L0D Rebel 80.


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## wjf2000 (Jun 22, 2012)

Maglite refuses to give knowledgable consumers what they want. A tail cap switch on the 2aa models, orange peel reflectors for better beam quality, a light with a cr123 form factor, a real tactical light, a light that produces over 250 lumens, the list goes on. Most of the new rechargeable flashlight take lithium-ion packs and all are led. Maybe in 2020 the new led magcharger with a lithium-ion battery pack will be released along with a led solitaire.


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## [email protected] (Jun 22, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> still behind the times regarding the competition. I'll stick with my "classic" Fenix L0D Rebel 80.




37 Lumens is still better than a kick in the pants and certainly more than the 15 Lumens offered by the aftermarket incandescent upgrade kit, why can't people give Maglight credit for at least moving forward into the LED realm and trying to offer a small (efficient) all round lighting solution?


Try and remember when 37 Lumens was what people used to get from an incandescent 2D Maglight :thumbsup:


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## Monocrom (Jun 22, 2012)

Credit for moving forward? The guy in charge sat on his laurels for close to 40 years. And then often tried to sue all of his competitors out of business. A few of the lawsuits were legit. Many were beyond frivolous. Clearly the competition realized that they have to spend a great deal on attorney fees if they hoped to make a profit in this industry. It's only because of all the competitors who couldn't be sued out of existence that [email protected] even bothered with upgrades just a couple of years ago. 

I can't think of another company that has managed to sell the very same products, made exactly the same way, for almost 40 years while turning a profit. And, having owned more [email protected] than any other brand of flashlight (except SureFire) I can honestly say that I found the [email protected] I've owned over the years to be no where remotely as good as my first full-sized disposable flashlight. My orange 2D, GE model with a black plastic bezel lasted me far longer than any of my [email protected] 12 years of trouble-free service. And, the beam quality from its dimpled, plastic reflector, was considerably better than the various full-sized [email protected] I've owned. 

I even remember the night I bought that flashlight. I needed to inspect my car for damage from a small fender bender that was my fault earlier in the day. I stopped at the outskirts of my neighborhood, parked, and went to a late-night convenience store I remembered being nearby. Asked the clerk for the best flashlight they sold. He held up an orange GE model that he told me had served him well on a nightly basis. He then pointed to a barrel that was full of them. $1.99 without batteries. I bought one, bought a couple of D-cells, and headed back to my car to check the damage that night. 

12 years later, I finally disposed of that disposable flashlight. 12 years . . . Not one of my [email protected] came close to being as good, yes even quality-wise, as that $1.99 GE flashlight. Best two bucks I've ever spent in my life. 12 years of reliable service. Once again, none of my [email protected] (past or present) were even remotely as good as that GE disposable I bought all those years ago.

But okay, I'll give [email protected] credit for actually opening up their R&D department since sealing the doors and apparently bricking over them for almost 40 years.


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## watchcollector1968 (Jun 22, 2012)

wjf2000 said:


> Maglite refuses to give knowledgable consumers what they want. A tail cap switch on the 2aa models, orange peel reflectors for better beam quality, a light with a cr123 form factor, a real tactical light, a light that produces over 250 lumens, the list goes on. Most of the new rechargeable flashlight take lithium-ion packs and all are led. Maybe in 2020 the new led magcharger with a lithium-ion battery pack will be released along with a led solitaire.



Like this?



Your images are too large and have been replaced with links
See Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels. - Norm


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## cheech_sp (Jun 22, 2012)

I look forward to comparing the new Solitaire to my ITP A3.


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## Rossymeister (Jun 22, 2012)

Any idea when we will see these available in stores?


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## tam17 (Jun 22, 2012)

~Deicide~ said:


> Any idea when we will see these available in stores?



Xmas 2012 (optimistic) to June 2013 (realistic). Ignore official statements to avoid anger and frustration :thumbsdow


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## Blue72 (Jun 22, 2012)

They stated next month. The military is what's delaying the release


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## TheSilverman (Jun 22, 2012)

wjf2000 said:


> Maglite refuses to give knowledgable consumers what they want. A tail cap switch on the 2aa models, orange peel reflectors for better beam quality, a light with a cr123 form factor, a real tactical light, a light that produces over 250 lumens, the list goes on...



This simply isn't their target market. 
And where would the avg American go to buy cr123 batteries?


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## Monocrom (Jun 23, 2012)

TheSilverman said:


> This simply isn't their target market.
> And where would the avg American go to buy cr123 batteries?



Brick & Mortar chain Pharmacies . . . At about $9 for a single CR123 cell.

They're definitely available if you need them right away. But I agree with you that the average person couldn't care less about what a knowledgeable consumer wants. Average consumer just wants something cheap, reliable, runs off common alkaline batteries, and with an easy as pie U.I.


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## Blue72 (Jun 23, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> .......I agree with you that the average person couldn't care less about what a knowledgeable consumer wants. Average consumer just wants something cheap, reliable, runs off common alkaline batteries, and with an easy as pie U.I.



Exactly...not to offend CPF'rs.....but flashlights are a commodity. Most people who are looking for a decent flashlight (maybe not by cpf standards) will just grab a maglite...the reason why maglite succeeds. 

Think of all the lights that have come and go on CPF and even the regular retailers shelves at Walmart,target,home depot,etc......maglite has outlasted all of them (with the exception of those cheap $2 plastic lights)

Maglite strategy is the right one for mass appeal wether we agree or not


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 23, 2012)

dd61999 said:


> Exactly...not to offend CPF'rs.....but flashlights are a commodity. Most people who are looking for a decent flashlight (maybe not by cpf standards) will just grab a maglite...the reason why maglite succeeds.
> 
> Think of all the lights that have come and go on CPF and even the regular retailers shelves at Walmart,target,home depot,etc......maglite has outlasted all of them (with the exception of those cheap $2 plastic lights)
> 
> Maglite strategy is the right one for mass appeal wether we agree or not


I think mag is feeling the pinch now as they used to dominate stores with their offerings now you can go to most stores and instead of seeing 12 pegs full of their lights in several models, colors etc you may see 2-3 pegs of them and LED on at least half of those. I figure the sales of solitaire lights have reached a point that they cannot keep a plant making them full time any more at the price they want for them in the stores nobody is buying a $6 incan light when a $1-$3 LED lights blows it away in output and runtime and many people have realized it after they get suckered into buying a solitaire then get a keychain light and compare. 
As I have said the price is what will determine how popular the solitaire is. As the LED mini mag came out at over 2.5x the price of the incan models and is still normally priced around $20 vs less than $10 for the incan we backtrack a $6 solitaire to $12-$15 range for an LED version. If they would do as dorcy did with their 1AAA LED everyone would have a solitaire at $7 I probably would.


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## [email protected] (Jun 23, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> 12 years later, I finally disposed of that disposable flashlight. 12 years . . . Not one of my [email protected] came close to being as good, yes even quality-wise, as that $1.99 GE flashlight. Best two bucks I've ever spent in my life. 12 years of reliable service. Once again, none of my [email protected] (past or present) were even remotely as good as that GE disposable I bought all those years ago.
> 
> But okay, I'll give [email protected] credit for actually opening up their R&D department since sealing the doors and apparently bricking over them for almost 40 years.



Well now you can have a Maglite with as much output as your $1.99 light except in a AAA form factor :thumbsup:


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## tickled (Jun 23, 2012)

Lynx_Arc said:


> As the LED mini mag came out at over 2.5x the price of the incan models and is still normally priced around $20 vs less than $10 for the incan we backtrack a $6 solitaire to $12-$15 range for an LED version.


 $15 would be too much for this. There are too many much nicer competitors available at $20 and some of them are even available at some traditional B&M stores. Though I suspect that despite a high price, it would fare well thanks to the name.


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## karnevil (Jun 23, 2012)

TheSilverman said:


> This simply isn't their target market.
> And where would the avg American go to buy cr123 batteries?



They sell Surfire 123's at Lowes in a 2pk for about $5.


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## Monocrom (Jun 24, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Well now you can have a Maglite with as much output as your $1.99 light except in a AAA form factor :thumbsup:



To be honest, I'd rather track down another one of those "Halloween style" GE flashlights. 

Owned it back before I developed a true interest and fascination in lights. I wasn't exaggerating about how good that GE light was.


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## bstrickler (Jun 25, 2012)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I'm thinking the LED solitaire requires almost a complete redesign as the tiny size has to include a boost circuit and change reflectors possibly adding a longer one. If they go with a 5mm LED then pricing has to be lower than with a more powerful LED solution. In a light that uses a AAA battery either they will have to include a lithium battery or use an underdriven cree in it so it will give somewhat useful runtimes off alkaline batteries. If they could do as dorcy did with their AAA LED light but one better put a cree in it and multimode driver and offer it for $15 or less it could sell but the average person may look at it and spend $5 more for a 2AA or 3AAA light instead.



If you use something like the ZXLD380, you can get the board to about 7mm, probably even smaller, if you design a multi layer board. Easily fits inside a Soli. Similar output to an E01, and cost less than ~75 cents for you and me to make, so you figure it'd cost them maybe 10-20 cents to make, not including LED, if they redesign it. 




WDG said:


> Without knowing any actual numbers, it would not surprise me to discover it's sold primarily as a corporate logoed promotional item. That's what mine was, along the my two AAA MiniMags.



Mine is a Marines Solitaire, so they probably made a fortune off the military.


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## peterkin101 (Jun 25, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Credit for moving forward? The guy in charge sat on his laurels for close to 40 years. And then often tried to sue all of his competitors out of business. A few of the lawsuits were legit. Many were beyond frivolous. Clearly the competition realized that they have to spend a great deal on attorney fees if they hoped to make a profit in this industry. It's only because of all the competitors who couldn't be sued out of existence that [email protected] even bothered with upgrades just a couple of years ago.
> 
> I can't think of another company that has managed to sell the very same products, made exactly the same way, for almost 40 years while turning a profit. And, having owned more [email protected] than any other brand of flashlight (except SureFire) I can honestly say that I found the [email protected] I've owned over the years to be no where remotely as good as my first full-sized disposable flashlight. My orange 2D, GE model with a black plastic bezel lasted me far longer than any of my [email protected] 12 years of trouble-free service. And, the beam quality from its dimpled, plastic reflector, was considerably better than the various full-sized [email protected] I've owned.
> 
> ...



I know where you're coming from with the general point you make about Mr Maglica suing competitors.

However in his shoes, would YOU stand idly by whilst a ex partner and child set up a rival organisation, attempted to muscle into your hard-earned market and attempted to poach your staff and trade secrets (by default)? 

And I've owned Maglites in one form or another for over twenty years.

Yep there's a few valid moans insomuch that they aren't at the cutting edge of torch technology at present.

But all this knocking their reliability?

I owned a MagCharger for over 15 years and had been soaked, banged and dropped from 3m onto a hard concrete pavement.

Apart from a gouge out of the head it worked and continued to work perfectly until sold for a V3 model.

Everything else from the Solitaire to the 6D has always served me well and apart from battery leakage (NOT Maglites fault of course) have been faultless in their operation and reliability.

As for Maglite selling the same products for over 40 years will little or no change. 

If something is right first time does it need to change?

When did you last come across a non-circular steering wheel?

It's been done over here in the UK, a long forgotten about car called the Austin Allegro was offered with a 'Quartic' steering wheel which was a square shape with rounded edges.A stunning runaway success-NOT!

It's good to hear you got an extreme bargain with your $1.99 torch-sometimes it can happen like that.

There is some merit in your points that Mr Maglica is slow at introducing anything new.

Newer isn't automatically better though.

But I for one,having found out the hard way with an ASP torch, will NEVER EVER buy anything with a CR123A power ever supply again.

So yes I'd love to see Mr Maglica at the tip of the blade when it comes to technology but I'll be buying his products on an as-needed basis provided he sticks to providing tough reliable products at reasonable prices.


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## peterkin101 (Jun 25, 2012)

karnevil said:


> They sell Surfire 123's at Lowes in a 2pk for about $5.



Try getting them in the UK at that price.

Absolutly FNC where NC stands for No Chance.

And the biggest problem is that if you are out in the middle of nowhere or maybe not in a big city in the UK the chances of acquiring CR123A's is next to zero.

Finally when did you last come across a CR123A powered torch which gave you any idea at all then the batteries were about to run flat?


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## peterkin101 (Jun 25, 2012)

wjf2000 said:


> Maglite refuses to give knowledgable consumers what they want. A tail cap switch on the 2aa models, orange peel reflectors for better beam quality, a light with a cr123 form factor, a real tactical light, a light that produces over 250 lumens, the list goes on. Most of the new rechargeable flashlight take lithium-ion packs and all are led. Maybe in 2020 the new led magcharger with a lithium-ion battery pack will be released along with a led solitaire.



Well there are one or two points you raise here and whilst I would like to see Maglite introduce some of these I listed below my opinions as to why it isn't happening. This isn't 'insider knowledge' just my 'feel':

1) Lithium Ion technology-big advantages with weight, minimal 'memory effect' and power density enabling Lithium Ion cells to be smaller and more powerful than NiMh and NiCd. Disadvantages include need to incorporate sophisticated power management and safety circuitry in both the cells and the charger. Lithium-Ion cells can be VERY dangerous if they go faulty. A few posts in CPF will show why. 

2) LED Technology-big advantages in brightness and also in power consumption. Although getting better all the time, LED's are like diamonds-have to be graded for colour temperature (white light or blue,purple,green tint?). Maglite have started introducing LED Technology into some of their range. But when was the last time you came across an American manufacturer of LED's for use in torches? AFAIK ALL are Made in China-and that makes Mr Maglica's blood boil. He is FANATICAL about keeping Americans in work as much as possible.

3) Tactical light with CR123A's-there is a model called the MagTac but hasn't come out yet for whatever reason. I for one will NOT be buying it-sorry but I HATE CR123A's great for a time and then go flat without warning.

4) IMHO the 'Tactical' market is absolutly AWASH with models. CR123A (or even 18650) powered, 200+ Lumen, made with aircraft grade aluminium with Type III Hard Anodised coating, waterproof to IPX8 standard, Surefire style crenallated fronts. Take your pick from dozens!

The other thing to bear in mind is that most if not all of this is patented elsewhere. If Maglite want to start incorporating all this in one go they'll be shelling out for royalties or facing lawsuits of their own.

Finally, I think there is enough inertia now for Maglite to introduce an LED replacement for the MagCharger but Mr Maglica is playing his cards very close indeed to his chest.

So when it comes out we'll all fall over with shock.


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## mat_the_cat (Jun 25, 2012)

peterkin101 said:


> Finally when did you last come across a CR123A powered torch which gave you any idea at all then the batteries were about to run flat?



My Surefire A2 does - the incandescent goes dim for a while, then refuses to light, then finally I have many hours left on just LEDs:nana: Doesn't make it the right torch for everybody though, and I sympathise with being able to find CR123A batteries over here in a shop at a good price, although I have recently found a good mail order supplier who happened to be local too!

Sorry to go O/T. I still like Maglites, as I know that simply because of their huge numbers sold, spares won't be a problem even if Magite themselves stop support for older models. It's useful having a Solitare to hand just to realise how far we've come since then!


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## karnevil (Jun 25, 2012)

peterkin101 said:


> Try getting them in the UK at that price.
> 
> Absolutly FNC where NC stands for No Chance.
> 
> ...



The post I responded to asked where a general American could get a 123A at a decent price. As for a 123A light with low battery warning, the Nitecore EC1 and EC2 are have an indicator light.



peterkin101 said:


> Finally, I think there is enough inertia now for Maglite to introduce an LED replacement for the MagCharger but Mr Maglica is playing his cards very close indeed to his chest.
> 
> So when it comes out we'll all fall over with shock.



Check out the Maglite ML125. It is pretty much an LED MagCharger.


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## Monocrom (Jun 25, 2012)

peterkin101 said:


> I know where you're coming from with the general point you make about Mr Maglica suing competitors.
> 
> However in his shoes, would YOU stand idly by whilst a ex partner and child set up a rival organisation, attempted to muscle into your hard-earned market and attempted to poach your staff and trade secrets (by default)?



I stopped buying [email protected] products after learning about a certain lawsuit against Arc in which the issue was placement of lettering along the bezel of Arc's single-AAA keychain offering. Ridiculous beyond belief! As for other lawsuits . . . It's clear that the founder of [email protected] genuinely believes that he's invented every single flashlight innovation that exists, has existed, and _will_ exist in the future. Sue-happy is far too mild a term to describe him. If I were in his shoes, would I protect my creation? Absolutely! Would I file one ridiculously frivolous lawsuit after another until my lawyers were practically dropping dead from exhaustion? No.



> And I've owned Maglites in one form or another for over twenty years.
> 
> Yep there's a few valid moans insomuch that they aren't at the cutting edge of torch technology at present.
> 
> But all this knocking their reliability?



Simply relating my previous experience with numerous [email protected] models. Yes, they've failed on me. To be clear, different models, different issues. 



> I owned a MagCharger for over 15 years and had been soaked, banged and dropped from 3m onto a hard concrete pavement.
> 
> Apart from a gouge out of the head it worked and continued to work perfectly until sold for a V3 model.



No doubt [email protected] builds the MagCharger to a much better standard than their other full-sized models. Personally, I had a 3D [email protected] that lasted 3 years riding beside the driver's seat in my car. One day, I went to check to see if the batteries needed replacing. Light wouldn't switch on. I then noticed I couldn't screw the tailcap back on. I decided to inspect the lamp too. Now I couldn't screw the head back on. Removed the bezel ring, same issue. That light literally fell apart in my hands. I was left holding a bunch of pieces. Keep in mind, that light did nothing more strenuous than ride along with me in my car for 3 years. Not even my cheapest 3AAA No-Name lights from China suffered from that problem.



> Everything else from the Solitaire to the 6D has always served me well and apart from battery leakage (NOT Maglites fault of course) have been faultless in their operation and reliability.



I honestly wish my [email protected] performed that way for me as well. However, I'd be lying if I said my numerous [email protected] have been completely reliable.



> As for Maglite selling the same products for over 40 years will little or no change.
> 
> If something is right first time does it need to change?



No. Perfection needs no improvement. However, based on my personal experience over the years with numerous examples of their lights, [email protected] is no where remotely close to perfection. And, definitely didn't get things right the first time. 



> When did you last come across a non-circular steering wheel?



When I saw a classic 1903 Oldsmobile. But getting back to lights . . . 




> It's good to hear you got an extreme bargain with your $1.99 torch-sometimes it can happen like that.
> 
> There is some merit in your points that Mr Maglica is slow at introducing anything new.
> 
> Newer isn't automatically better though.



When it's been about 40 years, and your competitors are drastically eating into your market-share, yeah; that would be an example of when newer is definitely the way to go. 



> But I for one,having found out the hard way with an ASP torch, will NEVER EVER buy anything with a CR123A power ever supply again.
> 
> So yes I'd love to see Mr Maglica at the tip of the blade when it comes to technology but I'll be buying his products on an as-needed basis provided he sticks to providing tough reliable products at reasonable prices.



Well, that's the thing. I haven't found his products to be tough, or reliable. There's something seriously wrong when a cheap disposable costing two bucks can outperform a full-sized [email protected] in terms of output, beam quality, ruggedness, reliability, and price.

As for not wanting to rely on lights running off of multiple CR123 cells, I can understand that. I'd go with Streamlight's selection of non-CR123 based models. Especially their older rechargeable models.


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## Blue72 (Jun 26, 2012)

Monocrom, I think you are the exception rather than the rule.

Are there better flashlights than maglite....of course. But let's not kid ourselves, maglite would not be as big as they are today if they were not decent lights. I have a minimag light that I have used for the past twenty years on almost a daily basis. Granted I have changed bulbs and eventually to aftermarket led, but the light has seen lots of use and some abuse.


As far as lawsuits, you might as well boycott surefire and a host of other light companies for doing the same thing. Then also boycott Chinese light manufacturers for infringement, or misleading claims to the consumer


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## tam17 (Jun 26, 2012)

Sorry to interrupt the further derailing of this thread, but I have one trivial question to ask:

Are there any [email protected] insiders, dealers (or just well informed forum members) who are willing to share the MSRP and date of arrival in stores for the LED Soli? Official announcements and replies to customer queries coming from [email protected] are proven to be unreliable and very frustrating...:scowl:

Cheers


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## peterkin101 (Jun 26, 2012)

dd61999 said:


> Monocrom, I think you are the exception rather than the rule.
> 
> Are there better flashlights than maglite....of course. But let's not kid ourselves, maglite would not be as big as they are today if they were not decent lights. I have a minimag light that I have used for the past twenty years on almost a daily basis. Granted I have changed bulbs and eventually to aftermarket led, but the light has seen lots of use and some abuse.
> 
> As far as lawsuits, you might as well boycott surefire and a host of other light companies for doing the same thing. Then also boycott Chinese light manufacturers for infringement, or misleading claims to the consumer



I was going to reply to Monocrom's rather anti-Maglite reply.

But you've done it just nicely.

Thanks very much.


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## Slazmo (Jun 26, 2012)

I've got 1 and 2/3's of the Maglite Solitare and find them both 'weak as urine' in a nice way to say it...

Replaced them both with the Led Lenser K3 and never looked back - the only downside of the K3 is the button cell batteries that are hard to replace and have the contacts all go in properly...

Otherwise such a better light, in construction, light output and overall lifespan and warranty.


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## srfreddy (Jun 26, 2012)

The only three lights that have failed on me are the incan AAA and AA minimags, and the Rebel AA minimag. YMMV, but I don't trust them.


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## Monocrom (Jun 26, 2012)

dd61999 said:


> Monocrom, I think you are the exception rather than the rule.
> 
> Are there better flashlights than maglite....of course. But let's not kid ourselves, maglite would not be as big as they are today if they were not decent lights. I have a minimag light that I have used for the past twenty years on almost a daily basis. Granted I have changed bulbs and eventually to aftermarket led, but the light has seen lots of use and some abuse.
> 
> ...



You have to admit, it is rather odd that I've bought several [email protected] models over the years from several different stores; and yet more than a few failed on me. The worst one being the one mentioned above that did nothing more than ride in my car for 3 years straight. I mean, last time I checked I didn't offend a witch who put a mild curse on me. Nor do I own a black cat as a pet that likes to cross my path on a consistent basis. 

One of the reasons why [email protected] is so big is clearly due to marketing. When I bought most of my [email protected] I didn't have an interest in lights. Back when I was just "normal" I assumed, just like the vast majority of the population, that [email protected] was the King of The Hill, the Top of The Mountain, the Impossible-To-Do-Better. Just a No-Brainer that if you wanted the best, you bought a [email protected]! . . . And then I encountered that $1.99 GE model. Then, a few years later, I developed a real interest in flashlights. Let's face it, [email protected] makes their money by selling primarily to the masses, not to flashaholics. 

I had a 2AA Mini-Mag that, while swapping batteries, I sneezed. Completely unexpected sneeze. I squeezed down on the hollow barrel. Image my surprise when I couldn't insert the new batteries into the light. Took a closer look . . . When I squeezed down on the barrel, I deformed it into a slight oval instead of a round shape. Must admit, for about a second; I felt really strong. Sampson and Hercules had nothing on me! But then I came back down to reality. 

Honestly, I think my position as one of SureFire's biggest critic of their odorous marketing practices on CPF is secure. I've been the one pointing some of them out on these boards. But as odorous as those practices are, seeing some of the incredibly frivolous lawsuits filed by [email protected] . . . It's like saying a Sun-dial and a Rolex watch are both the same because they're both time-keeping tools. As for Chinese light manufacturers, I don't buy from the brands that engage in such shady business practices. Not all Brands from China operate that way though.


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## Monocrom (Jun 27, 2012)

peterkin101 said:


> I was going to reply to Monocrom's rather anti-Maglite reply.
> 
> But you've done it just nicely.
> 
> Thanks very much.



Or perhaps you couldn't come up with an intelligent rebuttal to the points I brought up in that particular post. My points were not [email protected] They were honest and truthful. Based on personal experience with numerous products from the company, over numerous years. To simply label them as "[email protected]" makes it clear that I'm dealing with a blindly devoted fan-boy who thinks the company and its products are perfect, always have been, and always will be. This is the last response to one of your posts you will get from me. Have a nice day.


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## tam17 (Jul 15, 2012)

Announcement on other specialized website stated "Expected Availability: July 2012".

Any news?


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## Robin24k (Jul 15, 2012)

Nothing yet...the 2D LED Pro and 2AAA LED will be available first.


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## rdrfronty (Jul 15, 2012)

This a little off topic again, sorry op. I just thought I had to defend Maglite a little with the VERY usual statements made above. I have had multiple mags over the years. Started with my first ones back in 87 when I joined the military. Started edc'ing AA minimags to replace the joke of a light the army issued for field use back then. Loved those little lights. Extremely dependable. I've since over the years purchased a little newer AA modes, 2d models, and recently XL200' 2D, AA LED's. All lights have always worked flawlessly. The kicker on top is still have every single one I ever purchased including a couple 25yr old AA minimags from my old army days and they all work perfect. I've never done anything to any of these lights other than occasional bulb replacements and of course battery replacements. They are pretty weak compared to my newer "high end" lights. But they über dependable. 
Over this past year I have got serious into Flashlights. I now have lights varying from little Nanolights up to SR90's, with tons in between. 4sevens, Olights, Eagletacs, etc. And I actually edc a rotation of a MiniX, D25C, and an i3. All of these mostly because their awesome output to size ratio. But guess what I have sitting with in reach by my bedside--a 2D mag and an old trusty AA Maglite as backup. I know these two lights will work anytime and every time I ever need them. Plus the 2D mag makes a pretty backup weapon . And I now always have my Maglite XL200 in my truck. Very nice modern mag with a very cool UI. As for a AA minimag crushing with a sneeze??? All I will say to that is we actually do have Hercules as a member of this board. Because with the rest of us mere mortals here, that just couldn't happen. 
Back on topic, I have always stayed away from the little mag solitaire in the past. I've always like its small form factor in the past, but even back years ago I couldn't get past the really weak output. But I'm always checking the Maglite website just hoping they will finally put a LED in that little light. They've got too some time. As a mass produced light in chain stores everywhere, most of its competitors are already led's. I just can't see them not upgrading eventually.


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## yellow (Jul 15, 2012)

as many here, I also had (and still have - in some shelf) quite a number of maglites.
* The *Ds* usually were too big and heavy to really bring them around and use them.
* the *AA Minimags *- used quite frequently (imho more frequent as most typers here have) - came VERY COSTLY, as - when You USE them - the bulbs cost a kingdom. 
On a typical _used_ Minimag, one bulb equals for 1.5 sets of batteries (~ 5 hours of light). And that is what I am used to from years of use, not that occasional flashing around some ppl are doing ...
Also the change to the led version really pissed me off. 1st it came 3 years later than firstly advised (to me personally by the representative here) and then they "invented" unnecessary "lenghts" in bezel and end part/tailcap to fight the users to run aftermarket parts (who IMPORVED the lights by far). 

but the *solitaire* - reason of this thread - is my worst nightmare.
Out of all the models I had, none worked reliable ... contact problems; light getting less bright exactly when the reflector is in focus, ...

Luckily, when the whit led cam poerful enough, homebuilt 2*AA lights, and later the wave of Fenix lights, immediately stopped one to be forced to use these lights, not a single thought for them anymore ...



PS: over the years the build quality of the minimags really went down; + the "new" "quick" threads on the body worsened reliability.
Even the original ones liked to unscrew when pocketed and thus turning themselves on - leaving one with empty batteries - which was a reason for the aftermarket end cap switches
(that were fought by the longer tubes/caps of the led models)


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## tam17 (Jul 16, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> Nothing yet...the 2D LED Pro and 2AAA LED will be available first.



Thanks, Robin!

Cheers


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## whetrock (Jul 16, 2012)

I purchased a Solitare some time ago with the sole intent of seeing just how bad this light really is. I'm in the knife business and my wholesaler offers a limited selection of lights that includes maglite. All in all the Solitare proved to be one of the most laughable lights I've purchased the output is among the lowest I've seen in quite some time. My cheapie Photon light has way more in the way of brightness and also is much more compact and at home on the keychain. I don't really see the point of the Solitare in this day and age of flashlights. But still it serves as a great benchmark to compare some of my more modern lights to to show the progress of lights.


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## ficklampa (Jul 18, 2012)

whetrock said:


> I purchased a Solitare some time ago with the sole intent of seeing just how bad this light really is. I'm in the knife business and my wholesaler offers a limited selection of lights that includes maglite. All in all the Solitare proved to be one of the most laughable lights I've purchased the output is among the lowest I've seen in quite some time. My cheapie Photon light has way more in the way of brightness and also is much more compact and at home on the keychain. I don't really see the point of the Solitare in this day and age of flashlights. But still it serves as a great benchmark to compare some of my more modern lights to to show the progress of lights.



I would say it surves a purpose to show how far the business has come, I wouldn't really compare it to anything since everything just blows it away... Even my 2D Maglite is a joke compared to modern lights. My Monarch 200 is brighter, and that has a 5mm led powered by a pair of button cell batteries.


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## peterkin101 (Sep 6, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Or perhaps you couldn't come up with an intelligent rebuttal to the points I brought up in that particular post. My points were not [email protected] They were honest and truthful. Based on personal experience with numerous products from the company, over numerous years. To simply label them as "[email protected]" makes it clear that I'm dealing with a blindly devoted fan-boy who thinks the company and its products are perfect, always have been, and always will be. This is the last response to one of your posts you will get from me. Have a nice day.




A little bit silly and acting like a spoilt child there.

Yes I COULD have offered a 'rebuttal' of your remarks, but dd61999 had beat me to it.

I don't see Maglite as perfect in everything, had you been bothered to check through my previous posts I have praised and criticised Mag Intruments on several occasions.

An update of the MagCharger for example is desperatly needed IMHO-an artifact ridden beam and a 12-14ish hour charge are no longer acceptable for a top of the range torch in this day and age.

And again IMHO the ML125 is not quite the premium product they need as a replacement for the MagCharger.

I'm disappointed you had issues with them reliabilty wise, in over 20 years of experience with Maglites I've never had a problem.

My only point with those issues is that you should have raised it with them before moaning about it on CPF.

I do value your points and contribution to CPF, I don't always agree with you but apart from this occasion your input has been reasonable.

And next time, please consider a point before kicking off like a juvenile.


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## peterkin101 (Sep 6, 2012)

And of course Maglite have announced an LED version of the Solitaire.

Not a second too soo,


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## tam17 (Sep 6, 2012)

Yawn...

Hoped to hear some updates on this topic 

Cheers


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## Monocrom (Sep 6, 2012)

tam17 said:


> Yawn...
> 
> Hoped to hear some updates on this topic
> 
> Cheers



I heard the project was on hold for now at [email protected] But cannot confirm that with absolutely certainty.


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## Chicken Drumstick (Sep 7, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Credit for moving forward? The guy in charge sat on his laurels for close to 40 years. And then often tried to sue all of his competitors out of business. A few of the lawsuits were legit. Many were beyond frivolous. Clearly the competition realized that they have to spend a great deal on attorney fees if they hoped to make a profit in this industry. It's only because of all the competitors who couldn't be sued out of existence that [email protected] even bothered with upgrades just a couple of years ago.
> 
> I can't think of another company that has managed to sell the very same products, made exactly the same way, for almost 40 years while turning a profit. And, having owned more [email protected] than any other brand of flashlight (except SureFire) I can honestly say that I found the [email protected] I've owned over the years to be no where remotely as good as my first full-sized disposable flashlight. My orange 2D, GE model with a black plastic bezel lasted me far longer than any of my [email protected] 12 years of trouble-free service. And, the beam quality from its dimpled, plastic reflector, was considerably better than the various full-sized [email protected] I've owned.
> 
> ...



Yes, but you do seem to be somewhat of a singular anomaly.


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## Monocrom (Sep 7, 2012)

I'll take that as a compliment.


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## Chicken Drumstick (Sep 7, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> I'll take that as a compliment.



lol 

Only meaning that I suspect 90-95% of CPF members either own or have owned a MagLite, yet you are almost the only person who complains at their durability. I'm certainly not saying you didn't have issues, but based on the overwhelming fact most people don't, I'm not sure there is a valid claim they aren't reliable units.

I'm also not sure it's fair to claim they've sold the same products for 40 years. I think they've varied their line up quite a bit over the years and at any given point in time have performed on par with comparable lights of similar specification.


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## Monocrom (Sep 7, 2012)

There have been other members who have had issues. To me it just seems odd that for a company praised for making an excellent product, I've ended up with a handful of them that weren't. One or two could be understood as a rare lemon that squeezed by Quality Control and ended up in my hands. But a handful? Certainly not a large enough sample to come to any scientific conclusion. But enough to make one wonder. Enough for me to look elsewhere.

Porsche has varied their line-up more often. It's still the same set of lights year after year. When I bought my 2AAA Mini-Maglite, the tiny bulb fell out as I was exiting the shop and putting in two batteries. I returned to the shop to see if they could help me. The guy behind the counter took out an older 2AAA Mini-Mag that was covered in dust. Must have been at least 20 years old if not older. Took the light out of the packaging, pulled its bulb, and put it into my brand new 2AAA model. I still have that penlight. The old bulb worked perfectly. Nothing had been updated or tweaked. [email protected]'s models have been over-shadowed for years by LED and even inca. offerings from other brands.


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## peterkin101 (Sep 11, 2012)

In comparison to the number they sell, the return rate on Maglite is very small indeed.

How do I know?

Well for a few years from 1993-2000 I worked at a retailer which sold every type of Maglite under the sun (with the exception of the Magcharger)

And out of the dozens I sold in that time...not a single return.

And again I have to reiterate, it is no good if you have a faulty item throwing it away and kicking off on a forum.

The manufacturer needs to know about it, after all they could end up upgrading your torch for free.

A bit like my Nokia N900 which suddenly went then was repalaced by an E7 as they couldn't realistically fix it.


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## tam17 (Sep 11, 2012)

Not sure what this means in Mag's terms, but new LED Soli is now listed as a product at OfficerStore.com (not available yet, but price is already there).

Cheers


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## Lynx_Arc (Sep 11, 2012)

tam17 said:


> Not sure what this means in Mag's terms, but new LED Soli is now listed as a product at OfficerStore.com (not available yet, but price is already there).
> 
> Cheers


I see it listed on google shopping at another store for $12.99, a reasonable price but nothing exciting. I expect to read a review before I even consider waiting for a black friday sale on them at 9.99


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## tam17 (Sep 11, 2012)

Lumen rating is also puzzling. Although there are no hard ANSI specs available yet, announcement at LED-Resource.com stated 37 lumens and now they say 25+ lumens?!

Waiting for more info...


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## leon2245 (Sep 12, 2012)

tam17 said:


> Lumen rating is also puzzling. Although there are no hard ANSI specs available yet, announcement at LED-Resource.com stated 37 lumens and now they say 25+ lumens?!
> 
> Waiting for more info...






either 25 or 37l works for me. Same with $10 vs. $13 lol. I'm pretty much down with anything MagLite comes up with like this one, single cell, single mode, TFoff etc. (now do a premium Aa magtech style) w/ no offense to Monocrom intended, because I too would probably have just as passionate an internet agenda against any company I had THAT much bad luck with- not to mention doing your friend like that? I'd be mad too. Heck I AM mad now!

*[email protected]!
*
:whoopin:


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## Monocrom (Sep 12, 2012)

I post honestly regarding my personal experiences with various brands. If some choose to believe I'm pushing a personal agenda, nothing I can do about that. If you think this is bad, you should check out my comments on the TAG Heuer sub-forum over at watchuseek.com

Some of those guys want to rip my head off. Not my fault the President of the company made a topic to address questions directly from the brand's fan-base, and then vanished after the soft-ball questions came to an end. But I digress . . .


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## leon2245 (Sep 12, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> I post honestly regarding my personal experiences with various brands. If some choose to believe I'm pushing a personal agenda, nothing I can do about that. If you think this is bad, you should check out my comments on the TAG Heuer sub-forum over at watchuseek.com
> 
> Some of those guys want to rip my head off.* Not my fault the President of the company made a topic to address questions directly from the brand's fan-base, and then vanished after the soft-ball questions came to an end. *But I digress . . .



Hahaha you must have pwnd him! Sounds like mandatory reading- link (or do you remember the thread title)?

It's true though, your [email protected] rants are mild in comparison to the type of anger that can be caused by knowing too much about _watches._ blows away anything that goes down here.


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## Monocrom (Sep 12, 2012)

leon2245 said:


> Hahaha you must have pwnd him! Sounds like mandatory reading- link (or do you remember the thread title)?



Unfortunately, I don't. And the topic was at least a couple of months ago, if not longer.

I didn't pwn him though. I took it as a rare opportunity to ask him about a couple of questions regarding very real issues that the brand suffers from. It's odd. The brand is very popular with the general public, but not respected by a large number of watch collectors. The problem is, the haters simply refer to it as a "fashion brand." (Not true.) They never mention any of the brand's actual issues. The TAG Heuer enthusiasts tend to get very defensive against the haters, and thus react very negatively at even the slightest constructive criticism. Won't get into detail here. 

However, if it wasn't for those very real issues that have mostly remained unaddressed by TAG Heuer, I'd happily be wearing a TAG Heuer WAN2110 Aquaracer on my wrist right now. (And showing off that beautiful diver to my friends.)


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## tam17 (Sep 14, 2012)

Now listed at Dodd's, "unlimited in stock"!!?. Seems like Mag product code is SJ3A016. Me thinks it'll hit the shelves soon...

Cheers


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## leon2245 (Sep 14, 2012)

tam17 said:


> Now listed at Dodd's, unlimited in Stock! Seems like Mag product code is SJ3A016. Me thinks it'll hit the shelves soon...
> 
> Cheers




Not familiar with Dodd's, but that's weird. I just know i'm not waiting to find this one in store. Lowes still doesn't have the mini pro yet, and that's been out a long while now. Thanks for the heads up.


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## Chicken Drumstick (Sep 14, 2012)

At least you guys get them. In the UK we get well and truly shafted. People are still wanting £20+ for an incan Mini Mag!!! (That's $30+ USD). Even used ones go for silly silly money.


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## tam17 (Sep 18, 2012)

Chicken Drumstick said:


> At least you guys get them. In the UK we get well and truly shafted. People are still wanting £20+ for an incan Mini Mag!!! (That's $30+ USD). Even used ones go for silly silly money.



Looks like all European buyers are shafted: most recent info from Finnish site vandernet.fi states the retail price of 24.90 € (delivery Dec 2012), whereas US price will be around $12.99. Bummer...:shakehead


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## leon2245 (Sep 19, 2012)

Well now I understand why UKnewbie (& all past/present/future banned iterations of him) was always so _angry _about MagLite. Between everyone outside of the US who has to pay too much, everyone maglite has ever sued, & eveyone who hates the lack of exclusivity because J6P buys them too, I might be their only fan left.

Maglite's stepping on too many toes!


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## tam17 (Oct 11, 2012)

Anybody got one? First impressions?

There are some interesting photos of production version LED Soli on allspectrum.com, supposedly they've got their first batch just three days ago. I'm not familiar with kind of emitter Mag is using...

Cheers


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## Robin24k (Oct 11, 2012)

It looks like they're using the Luxeon C...


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## tam17 (Oct 11, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> It looks like they're using the Luxeon C...



Photos are small but I think you're right, Robin. Thanks.

I wonder how difficult it will be to mod one with, say, XP-G2? Measured tailcap current is above 300mA, according to another flashlight-related forum.

Cheers


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## Robin24k (Oct 11, 2012)

I think they're using that LED because of the small space. I'm not sure how much performance you'll gain anyways...


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## Blue72 (Oct 14, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> I think they're using that LED because of the small space. I'm not sure how much performance you'll gain anyways...



When are you going to do a review Robin


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## Robin24k (Oct 14, 2012)

It's supposed to arrive on Tuesday, but I've got too much going on right now, I might hand it off to someone else.


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## Blue72 (Oct 15, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> It's supposed to arrive on Tuesday, but I've got too much going on right now, I might hand it off to someone else.




Will you at least run the runtime test since you have the equipment


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## Robin24k (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes, I will do the testing and pictures...writing up the narrative is what takes time. 

I should have runtime graphs before the end of the week.


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## Blue72 (Oct 15, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> .............
> 
> I should have runtime graphs before the end of the week.



AWESOME!!!!


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## tam17 (Oct 15, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> Yes, I will do the testing and pictures...


 :thanks:


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## brted (Oct 15, 2012)

I got mine today from All Spectrum (ordered Friday night, got it this morning, California to Georgia, first class shipping!). It's not too bad. Should have good battery life as I am measuring about 320 mAh draw at the tail on a AAA Eneloop. I am working up some pictures and measurements for a review short review that I hope to post tomorrow (too late tonight).


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## Robin24k (Oct 17, 2012)

dd61999 said:


> AWESOME!!!!


Unfortunately, I've just been told that the Solitaire LED is out of stock...


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## tam17 (Oct 18, 2012)

brted said:


> I finished my review over at BLF



Thank you, Sir! Nice review indeed.

Cheers


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## brted (Oct 18, 2012)

dd61999 said:


> Thanks....by any chance have you noticed any difference in runtime with alkaline batteries?
> 
> Also what happens towards the end of the runtime does it just completely shutoff or does it have a moon mode?



I don't have a light meter, but it looked to me that the light stayed about the same for most of the runtime. A couple of minutes before it turned off it got noticeably dimmer. I haven't done a test on an alkaline just because I don't really use them. I could try the one it came with, but it's already got some use on it and the other alkalines I have on hand have been sitting around for a while.


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## Robin24k (Oct 19, 2012)

Looks like you got lucky...Maglite is updating the tooling for the Solitaire LED, so there's not going to be any more of these for a while. :shrug:


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## tam17 (Oct 19, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> Maglite is updating the tooling for the Solitaire LED, so there's not going to be any more of these for a while.



Another strange move... Mag remains THE most unpredictable flashlight manufacturer (at least in my eyes) :shakehead 

Seems like European customers will see first LED Soli's hit the shelves in early 2013.

Cheers


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## silver_bacon (Oct 28, 2012)

I heard that the Solitaire LED was going to hit the US shelves on a large scale before the end of the year. Has this changed?


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## Lynx_Arc (Oct 28, 2012)

silver_bacon said:


> I heard that the Solitaire LED was going to hit the US shelves on a large scale before the end of the year. Has this changed?



dunno.... would be interesting if they had a sale on them on black friday for $10 or less though but I don't think that will occur for the first few years they are on the market as supplies may be too limited.


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## luxlucis (Jan 3, 2013)

*maglite solitaire led*

hello
does anyone have tried the Maglite Solitaire led is so far?
Is possible to transform a Solitaire inc. to a led one by changing only the head?
thanks


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## tam17 (Jan 3, 2013)

*Re: maglite solitaire led*



luxlucis said:


> does anyone have tried the Maglite Solitaire led is so far?



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?335485-Maglight-Solitaire-Why-not-an-LED

Cheers


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## silver_bacon (Jan 3, 2013)

*Re: maglite solitaire led*

I don't think any dealers carry it yet other than a few that seem to have slipped out.


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## wertzius (Jan 3, 2013)

*AW: Maglight Solitaire - Why not an LED?*

I bought a led upgrade from ebay last month. I like it. Propably 12 lumes, the head doesn't screw on completely. I can make beamshots if anyone is interested.


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## ozner1991 (Jan 11, 2013)

*Re: AW: Maglight Solitaire - Why not an LED?*

please do, i cant seem to find any pictures of the new version. no beamshots, no photos of the new set up, nothing


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## samlight (Jan 11, 2013)

I would love to see some beamshots too! I didn't realize they briefly made the LED version... It's going to take a LOT for flashaholics to take to these new led solitaires. Price point has to be good, UI, output etc. Some of the competitors have really nailed it (Maratac, Fenix, Thrunite, etc..) for keychain AAA LED lights...


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## wertzius (Jan 11, 2013)

I bought an asian upgrade, not the original! I will make beamshots tomorrow.


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## Nake (Jan 23, 2013)

Bright Guy is carrying the Solitaire LED now.


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## bnemmie (Jan 23, 2013)

Well I'll drink the Kool-aid. He got my $15. I only have a few single AAA lights, we will see how it compares.


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## mcnair55 (Jan 23, 2013)

samlight said:


> I would love to see some beamshots too! I didn't realize they briefly made the LED version... It's going to take a LOT for flashaholics to take to these new led solitaires. Price point has to be good, UI, output etc. Some of the competitors have really nailed it (Maratac, Fenix, Thrunite, etc..) for keychain AAA LED lights...




Flashaholics is not there intended market but good old Joe Public and they will shift boat loads of them.Maglite is the only decent make out there to AN Other.

I wager with you that your Flashaholic from these very pages will buy an Led Solitaire because most grew up with some sort of Maglite,I am in for one when available just because.


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## DaveG (Jan 23, 2013)

mcnair55,you are on the money on that bet.I am going to get one for the reason you stated,I dont need another aaa light,but have been looking for this one to get released like a lot of other people.


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## bnemmie (Jan 23, 2013)

DaveG said:


> mcnair55,you are on the money on that bet.I am going to get one for the reason you stated,I dont need another aaa light,but have been looking for this one to get released like a lot of other people.





mcnair55 said:


> Flashaholics is not there intended market but good old Joe Public and they will shift boat loads of them.Maglite is the only decent make out there to AN Other.
> 
> I wager with you that your Flashaholic from these very pages will buy an Led Solitaire because most grew up with some sort of Maglite,I am in for one when available just because.



That's exact reason I ordered one.....just because lol


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## silver_bacon (Jan 26, 2013)

Received mine today. Not the brightest light out there but all in all not a bad light. It has made its way to one of my keychains for the time being.


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## The Shadow (Jan 27, 2013)

Anyone got an idea about runtime and regulation? Maglite's quoting 37 lumens at 1 hr 45 min. Just wondering if that's declining output or regulated to stay the same brightness?

In other words, after 5 minutes would the 37 lumen Mag still be brighter than a 27 lumen Fenix E05?


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## Changchung (Jan 27, 2013)

Pics please... 


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## MojaveMoon07 (Jan 27, 2013)

Changchung said:


> Pics please...



"_Review: Maglite Solitaire LED_"
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/14182


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## bnemmie (Jan 28, 2013)

I got mine on Friday. I was going to do a quick write up on it, but I don't think mine could compare to brted's.


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## Photon (Jan 28, 2013)

silver_bacon said:


> Received mine today. Not the brightest light out there but all in all not a bad light. It has made its way to one of my keychains for the time being.



Ditto.

Thank you CPF for the heads-up on the availability of the LED Solitaire.

Got it from Brightguy. Excellent service. As usual.


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## twl (Jan 29, 2013)

I would be most interested to see outdoor shots of the throw with the light focused down to a tight beam, vs the light focused wide for a floodier beam.

That would be the primary attraction to this light for me. I have a Fenix E05 which is 27 Lumens, and that seems fine to me for a little AAA pocket light. But it cannot re-focus to have a tight beam. It's floody all the time, and I like that just fine. But I would also like to have the ability to make it throw a bit further too, if I could do that with the Mag.

I will probably pick up one of these when they hit the shelves in the local stores like Lowe's.
I like to buy American made lights, and this might be a good one to try out.

The issue about other AAA lights being brighter doesn't concern me. I don't buy a single AAA light to be bright. I buy it for run time with a low/moderate output that fits my needs.


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## CarpentryHero (Jan 29, 2013)

I'll be waiting till another company sells this lol. 
Brightguy shipping to Canada ;
USPS Express Mail International	$47.35	
USPS Priority Mail International	$48.25	
UPS Worldwide Expedited	$62.42	
UPS Express Saver	$65.xx 

Ack lol


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## ragweed (Jan 29, 2013)

That is steep shipping! I will wait until Wally World stocks them. I can't see it being much better than an E01 or E05 myself.


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## CarpentryHero (Jan 29, 2013)

Im with ya there ragweed, I want one but I'm in no rush


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## Robin24k (Jan 31, 2013)

Got an update from Maglite...they're still re-tooling the assembly equipment, which could take another month or two. Until that is done, they will only be producing small batches by hand, most of which will be going overseas. I may finally have a sample coming my way...


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## The Shadow (Feb 1, 2013)

Robin24k said:


> Got an update from Maglite...they're still re-tooling the assembly equipment, which could take another month or two. Until that is done, they will only be producing small batches by hand, most of which will be going overseas. I may finally have a sample coming my way...



Does that mean they're changing or improving them already? I wonder what the difference will be between those already released and the re-tooled lights?


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## Robin24k (Feb 1, 2013)

It's going to be the same light, just mass produced in larger quantities.


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## silver_bacon (Feb 2, 2013)

That's some mighty expensive shipping. I ordered enough stuff to bump my order over $50 so I wouldn't have to pay shipping, but I think that offer is US only. My Solitaire LED serial number is SL 00010025. It is the lowest serial I have ever had on a Maglite.


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## tam17 (Feb 3, 2013)

If I decided to wait till it's available at my local MI distributor, it might be in early 2014 and estimated street price could be well over 25EUR (US$34), based on local pricing of other new MI products.

Worth it? IDK :shakehead

Cheers


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## El Camino (Feb 17, 2013)

I got mine today. It looks almost identical to the incandescent version. The reflector is different, obviously redesigned for the led. The led is very bright. I'd say 37 lumens is about right. It is focus-able, but only a slight turn gives you a spot, which is easy to do with one hand. Other than that, it's pretty much like the classic Solitaire, except it's actually usable!


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## JCD (Feb 17, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> I've had three fail on me. Including a 3D model that literally fell apart in my hands as I was checking the batteries. The only use it ever saw in 3 years was riding underneath the front seat of my car. Don't believe the hype.



When I worked on an airport ramp, we went through lots of 2D Maglites. Between the occasional drops and occasionally being run over by Tugs, a three month lifespan was typical. They were always replaced under warranty, though.


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