# Regulated incandescent flashlights?



## Handlobraesing (Feb 20, 2006)

Regulator is a common part of many LED flash lights, but I don't think I've come across one for incandescent.

Both the LED and the incandescent have something in common and that is a reduction in voltage results in a reduction of output, but incandescent pays a greater price as efficacy goes down considerably.

Why are they not offering buck converter type regulator for incandescent?

Since a standard incadescent flash light would quickly drop to about 70% output, a 4-D cell type flash light can be designed with a 3v bulb that gives off 70% the brightness at rated voltage relative to the output of 4-D cell type bulb with fresh batteries. A series MOSFET PWM driver could driver the lamp around 400Hz and start off with low duty cycle and increasing as the battery voltage is reduced and finally, starts to dim down when 100% duty cycle (continous on) can not sustain enough Vrms across the lamp.

A single MOSFET PWM driver like this is quite efficient unlike a linear dropper regulator.


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## DFiorentino (Feb 20, 2006)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/107211

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/107783

:shrug:


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## daBear (Feb 20, 2006)

Check closer on this forum. Two are being offered for sale, one by -awr and another by whiny.


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## Handlobraesing (Feb 20, 2006)

daBear said:


> Check closer on this forum. Two are being offered for sale, one by -awr and another by whiny.



They're rare nonetheless. Why aren't they available commonly in mass produced products like most LED ones?


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## turbodog (Feb 20, 2006)

Here is the answer to your prayers.

http://www.lightingpro.org/products.htm?#PS1

I ran across these guys a while back. I think they are under-rated.

It is a 8aa device that replaces the 2D cells in a mag (or similiar light) light. It includes a low/high power bulb (3.6v .5A and .9A).

It has soft start (to prolong bulb life) and voltage regulation. It also pulses the bulb to let you know visually when the batteries are about dead. It works with nimh/alkaline/lithium cells.

I have 2 and they are nice. The regulation keeps the beam a pure white color. The designer of this unit also designed the regulation circuitry for the surefire a2.

So there you go!

I don't follow threads much anymore, so PM if you have questions. You might find a few f/s here if you ask around. Also, they are made in the US with some very special assemblers.


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## Robban (Feb 20, 2006)

daBear said:


> Check closer on this forum. Two are being offered for sale, one by -awr and another by whiny.


That would be "winny" and not whiny  Just thought I'd point that out if someone tries to search for his posts


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## daBear (Feb 20, 2006)

Robban said:


> That would be "winny" and not whiny  Just thought I'd point that out if someone tries to search for his posts


 
Sorry about that and thanks for the correction. It's early and the coffee hasn't kicked in.


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## nemul (Feb 20, 2006)

Robban said:


> That would be "winny" and not whiny


lmao


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## Ralf (Feb 20, 2006)

Not to forget the LVRs from Willie Hunt ...
(long time around now)

Cheers
Ralf


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## fleegs (Feb 20, 2006)

Does this mean I can order the 8AA and bulb and upgrade my Mag 2D light?

I'll send PM also.

Anyone else have this?

Thanks,
rob



turbodog said:


> Here is the answer to your prayers.
> 
> http://www.lightingpro.org/products.htm?#PS1
> 
> ...


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## bfg9000 (Feb 20, 2006)

fleegs said:


> Does this mean I can order the 8AA and bulb and upgrade my Mag 2D light?
> I'll send PM also.
> Anyone else have this?
> Thanks,
> rob


If you mean the Willie Hunt designed Powerstik 8AA cartridge, then yes there was a group buy on them awhile ago, but nobody seemed too excited about 3.6v. And since regulated battery carriers tend to drain current even when the switch is off, the switched regulators mentioned by DFiorentino seem to be the way to go for a Mag.


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## bwaites (Feb 20, 2006)

If I remember correctly, LightingPro uses Willie Hunt's LVR's, (the Surefire engineer responsible for the only mass produced regulated light, the Surefire A2).

Mass production of regulated incandescent lights is a mystery. Surefire had a whole lineup planned sometime ago, (in fact, I think one or two even made it into catalogs, but were never produced), and then dropped it and has focused instead on fast start HID lights and LED's.

So for production lights we are left witht the A2 and a Headlamp made by ? (can't remember who right now.)

Several CPF members are working on MagMod regulated lights as mentioned above, and js and myself are working on something as well. 

(Don't worry all you USL and M6-R buyers, we won't announce it, and won't really work on it until the USL and M6-R build is done.)

Bill


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## greenLED (Feb 20, 2006)

Handlobraesing said:


> They're rare nonetheless. Why aren't they available commonly in mass produced products like most LED ones?



The SF A2, the entire BD IQ hybrid (LED/incan) series of headlamps are commonly available and mass produced - I'm guessing the BD much more so than the A2.


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## turbodog (Feb 20, 2006)

Yes, it drops right into any light that takes 2 D cells. Then you just replace the bulb with their bulb (which is just a 3.6v bulb) and you are finished.

It makes for a really white light. It does drain the cells when off, but you can still make it a year on a set of cells.


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## winny (Feb 20, 2006)

Robban,

Thanks for the clarification!




Handlobraesing said:


> They're rare nonetheless. Why aren't they available commonly in mass produced products like most LED ones?



Perhaps because common people, who buy flashlights in volumes, does not care about things like regulation. The other reason is price, regulation is not free. If you don't care about efficiency and power, you don't need regulation and consumers don't care.




turbodog said:


> It does drain the cells when off, but...



Then they have done it wrong!  

So, anyone here interested in making their flashlight regulated?  (again)


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## andrewwynn (Feb 20, 2006)

I believe there are a few reasons for the lack of regulated incan lights.. 

1) with an under-driven light.. you can 'get away' with non-regulated.. 
2) they are cheaper to make.. and of course cheaper to sell. 
3) in general.. less parts = more reliable. 

Mostly it's penny-wise pound foolish thinking, plain and simple. If you want a high-output light you must over-drive the lamp or it will be low efficiency... once you get the lamp into high efficiency it is IMPOSSIBLE to match an efficient bulb voltage and an effective battery voltage.. though a few projects come pretty close.. the USL and the 'Mag85' come to mind (both of which still suffer from insta-flash (blowing the bulb) if used too soon of a charge!). 

I'm hoping that me and winny will start a revolution in incandescent lighting with our two similar yet different projects. We worked completely in-parallel and found absoultely different solutions to the same problem. 

winny's regulator is almost identical in principle to the LVR from willy hunt.. but with far more detail to the programming side.. like a much more advanced model.. my solution is more of a 'brute force' method.. Linear regulator.. it burns off extra voltage as heat in the FET. 

i don't have a link to winny's regulator.. but i see he has it in his signature.. hey good idea! :-D.

'til i get mine in my signature.. you can check it out here: http://hotdriver.rouse.com


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## Handlobraesing (Feb 25, 2006)

andrewwynn said:


> I believe there are a few reasons for the lack of regulated incan lights..
> 
> 1) with an under-driven light.. you can 'get away' with non-regulated..
> 2) they are cheaper to make.. and of course cheaper to sell.
> 3) in general.. less parts = more reliable.


The same applies to LED. LED+series resistor and incadescent both have the above chracteristics. 



> Mostly it's penny-wise pound foolish thinking, plain and simple. If you want a high-output light you must over-drive the lamp or it will be low efficiency... once you get the lamp into high efficiency it is IMPOSSIBLE to match an efficient bulb voltage and an effective battery voltage.. though a few projects come pretty close.. the USL and the 'Mag85' come to mind (both of which still suffer from insta-flash (blowing the bulb) if used too soon of a charge!).


It's impossible to maintain constant current with LEDs without a regulator as well. Why would regulator circuit be more common with LED lights than incandescent lights?


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## fivemega (Feb 26, 2006)

40 power sticks sold here.


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## andrewwynn (Feb 26, 2006)

the reason that regulators became more common with LED is that they have quantum steps in their voltage and you have very little control over that voltage level. It is easier to control the output with a driver by boosting/bucking the Vbat than to try to tweak the semiconducting potting.. compare that to incan light where you can just use longer, thinner, fatter, shorter filaments to make any voltage whatsoever... they also can be made far more tolerant of voltage differential (lamp).. 

Some designers have come up with magic combinations of LED and batts.. like the 3AAA series solution.. it finds a happy medium becuase the cells have enough internal resistance there is a natural equilibrium.. i'm not very impressed with many unregulated lights either incan or led.. the technolgoy is not that hard nor that expensive to be included in all lights. 

-awr


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## Handlobraesing (Feb 26, 2006)

andrewwynn said:


> the reason that regulators became more common with LED is that they have quantum steps in their voltage and you have very little control over that voltage level. It is easier to control the output with a driver by boosting/bucking the Vbat than to try to tweak the semiconducting potting.. compare that to incan light where you can just use longer, thinner, fatter, shorter filaments to make any voltage whatsoever... they also can be made far more tolerant of voltage differential (lamp)..
> 
> Some designers have come up with magic combinations of LED and batts.. like the 3AAA series solution.. it finds a happy medium becuase the cells have enough internal resistance there is a natural equilibrium.. i'm not very impressed with many unregulated lights either incan or led.. the technolgoy is not that hard nor that expensive to be included in all lights.
> 
> -awr



It is not "natural equilibrium" All LED flashlights not having an electronic regulator is passively current limited with a series resistor, which may or may not be visible. Many times, its integral of the PR base.


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