# Arc6 auctions: first set of 10



## Gransee (May 24, 2008)

This is the first set of 10 auctions, each for one Arc6 flashlight. All the Arc6 flashlights will be sold by Auction. The auctions last for 7 days, closing this coming Saturday. 

Serial numbers 20 and below will be auctioned later in the process. Also, there will be missing serial numbers due to QC. I do not know what the price will be for the units after serial number 100 since I haven't settled on the LED for the next batch.

by serial number:

#0069

#0048

#0055

#0068

#0027

#0042

#0028

#0061

#0088

#0064

Good luck and have fun!

Arc6 webpage

peter


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## darkzero (May 24, 2008)

The time has come. Here we go! Wonder how high they will go?


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## joedos (May 24, 2008)

Cool, and the race begins.


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## skalomax (May 24, 2008)




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## FRANKVZ (May 24, 2008)

Wow, I'm out 9 minutes into the bidding!


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## maxspeeds (May 24, 2008)

Peter, is the starting bid of $275 the amount that production Arc6's will cost?


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## Groundhog66 (May 24, 2008)

Peter, I have to say YOU SUCK......, VERY nice way to repay you biggest supporters. I honestly hop you fall flat on this, and ALL the rest of your future endeavors.....

CPF'ers unite, let the Ebay scabs have these pimped "prototypes". If you REALLY want to know how I feel, just shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to give you my number.:thumbsdow


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## maxspeeds (May 24, 2008)

I just noticed that the auction includes both battery sleeves. Hopefully production Arc6's will be < $275


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## WadeF (May 24, 2008)

"All the Arc6 flashlights will be sold by Auction."

Does this mean all future Arc6's ever made will only be sold by auction? Or just this initial batch?


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## Groundhog66 (May 24, 2008)

Needed to add this.....How can you be selling something on Ebay the is currently being Beta Tested??? Sounds to me like you are rolling the dice hoping nothing goes wrong with the product you are putting out to the world, hasn't even been a proven product yet....... GOOD LUCK to those who spend top dollar on these trial offers....


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## skalomax (May 24, 2008)

WadeF said:


> "All the Arc6 flashlights will be sold by Auction."
> 
> Does this mean all future Arc6's ever made will only be sold by auction? Or just this initial batch?


 
I'm asking myself the same question, maybe Peter could shed some light on this situation.


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## maxspeeds (May 24, 2008)

WadeF said:


> "All the Arc6 flashlights will be sold by Auction."
> 
> Does this mean all future Arc6's ever made will only be sold by auction? Or just this initial batch?


 
Peter has mentioned previously that approximately the first 100 or so (that has the limited Lumileds K2TF LED) will be up for auction (since they are rare). These are pre-production models. All others will be available through the website.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179689&page=31

post #912


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## darkzero (May 24, 2008)

maxspeeds said:


> I just noticed that the auction includes both battery sleeves. Hopefully production Arc6's will be < $275


 
Yeah right, I wouldn't count on it. That's what ebay's for....

Well hopefully it will finally be sold for a reasonable set price on the Arc site. Then maybe I'll consider buying one.


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## Cuso (May 24, 2008)

IM a bit confused also... Are there going to be ONLY 100 ever made?? :thinking: Or are they going to be a regular production light after the Ebay sales??

OK Max answered my question..Thanks for that link Max, now I understand the whole Ebay drama...


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## karlthev (May 24, 2008)

:shakehead


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## cnw4002 (May 24, 2008)

I will second that. I got burned once and have no intention of getting burned again.



Groundhog66 said:


> Peter, I have to say YOU SUCK......, VERY nice way to repay you biggest supporters. I honestly hop you fall flat on this, and ALL the rest of your future endeavors.....
> 
> CPF'ers unite, let the Ebay scabs have these pimped "prototypes". If you REALLY want to know how I feel, just shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to give you my number.:thumbsdow


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## Edwood (May 24, 2008)

Let the shilling.......er bidding begin!!!!


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## ibcj (May 24, 2008)

I wish everyone the best of luck with the auctions. May everyone get what they want. 

I have to say that I am disheartened to see this. I have always liked Arc products and customer service. I've only been around CPF for three years and I know that Peter has given much to the community. To me, this seems like a step in the wrong direction. 

The idea of auctions for the Arc6 was floated on the forum and there were many who didn't like the idea, myself included. I can only now let my dissatisfaction be known with my wallet. There is plenty of competition in the flashlight business. Best of luck Arc & Peter.


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## olrac (May 24, 2008)

Agree or disagree, it is Arc's right to sell as they choose as it is your right to buy or not to buy this light. I may not agree but I will defend Peter's right to the Capitilistic dream, be it short lived or not


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## Nitroz (May 24, 2008)

Awww man! This does suck! Looks like I will not own one of these anytime soon.:thumbsdow


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## darkzero (May 24, 2008)

FRANKVZ said:


> Wow, I'm out 9 minutes into the bidding!


 
Funny, with all the other auctions up with 0 bids, yours just happens to get outbidded that fast. I hope the auctions aren't rigged like alot of other auctions on ebay.


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## karlthev (May 24, 2008)

olrac said:


> Agree or disagree, it is Arc's right to sell as they choose as it is your right to buy or not to buy this light. I may not agree but I will defend Peter's right to the Capitilistic dream, be it short lived or not




I love my *real* Arc LSs and, the way Arc used to do business and make money--they earned it. This??? Cut me a break!:thumbsdow


Karl


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## FrogmanM (May 24, 2008)

and so it begins...

Mayo


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## olrac (May 24, 2008)

karlthev said:


> I love my *real* Arc LSs and, the way Arc used to do business and make money--they earned it. This??? Cut me a break!:thumbsdow
> 
> 
> Karl



I'm with you brother, but this is America and Peter is within his rights to do it this way, no matter who he may **** off in the process. The American way is to protest by NOT giving your dollars to a company you disagree with, and that is Capitalism at it's finest:twothumbs


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## Groundhog66 (May 24, 2008)

I petition that Arc be removed from the sub forum in the Custom Makers section.....he has now become an Ebay Retailer......


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## olrac (May 24, 2008)

Groundhog66 said:


> I petition that Arc be removed from the sub forum in the Custom Makers section.....he has not become an Ebay Retailer......



I think you mean he HAS...yes?


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## ibcj (May 24, 2008)

Nevermind.


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## Groundhog66 (May 24, 2008)

olrac said:


> I think you mean he HAS...yes?



Thank you, spelling corrected. I also started a thread in the Suggestion forum to have them removed from the custom sub-forum.....only seem right to me.


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## Edwood (May 24, 2008)

Yeah, can we post customs sales threads as links to our eBay auctions. Only if we do it a few times?


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## XFlash (May 24, 2008)

Zero!


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## Groundhog66 (May 24, 2008)

This load of CRAP belongs in the "Other Auction Notices" forum, lets stick to the rules huh Mods?


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## Gransee (May 24, 2008)

I am going to ask nicely that the protestors please leave this place of business. You have stated your case in several threads. We discussed it. A decision was made. You disagree. Noted. Your recourse is to abstain from buying. However, your not satisfied with that. You continue to whine about it, clogging a sale thread and interfering with my ability to make an honest living. Please leave. 

peter


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## Groundhog66 (May 24, 2008)

Gransee said:


> I am going to ask nicely that the protestors please leave this place of business. You have stated your case in several threads. We discussed it. A decision was made. You disagree. Noted. Your recourse is to abstain from buying. However, your not satisfied with that. You continue to whine about it, clogging a sale thread and interfering with my ability to make an honest living. Please leave.
> 
> peter



You didn't actually say "Honest Living" did you? If you were such and honest businessman, you would admit that this is nothing but a McGizmo design RIPOFF. PLUS, we have every right to express our feeling here whether positive OR negative......DEAL WITH IT


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## olrac (May 24, 2008)

I think Greta has to step in here and make a ruling not us


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## Valpo Hawkeye (May 24, 2008)

Gransee said:


> I am going to ask nicely that the protestors please leave this place of business.



I'm all for Arc products, and I'm indifferent on the eBay thing. However, I was unaware this thread is a "place of business". I also agree that it should go in "other auction notices". And if I had my druthers, this never would have gone to eBay. (okay, I guess I'm not indifferent after all.) 

Charge what you think they're worth. Devise a lottery system for equitable chances among CPF'ers. Simple as that. Of course, we know that you really don't want to be involved with Arc's parent company anyway, so maybe since the end is in sight, you don't care who you alienate.


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## mraymer (May 24, 2008)

I agree you have the right to sell these on eBay and get as much as possible for them, earning an honest living. I, along with many others, do not like it and will do as has been stated and abstain from attempting to outbid other fanatic Arc fans. 

However, this is a forum for discussion and I think Hog has the right to make his feelings clear provided he doesn't cross the line. And to say this is clogging a sale thread is grossly misinterpreted. The sales thread is at www.ebay.com, not here. That's the rub.



Gransee said:


> I am going to ask nicely that the protestors please leave this place of business. You have stated your case in several threads. We discussed it. A decision was made. You disagree. Noted. Your recourse is to abstain from buying. However, your not satisfied with that. You continue to whine about it, clogging a sale thread and interfering with my ability to make an honest living. Please leave.
> 
> peter


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## yaesumofo (May 24, 2008)

Oh guys give Peter a break here remember he is only a Pawn. It isn't his company making or selling thse things. Clearly not his choice how this was to be done. How could it be? Peter would never do this of his own volition to his extreemely loyal follwing of guys who have been supporting this project from the start. Would he? I just don't see it.
































NOT.
Yaesumofo


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## watt4 (May 24, 2008)

Peter, you really could use a better picture (or two or three) on those auctions.


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## Empath (May 24, 2008)

Groundhog66, your complaints will need to be addressed in the Jeers forum, by private email, PM, or the Underground. Your activity is interfering with the thread. Others wishing to participate in protesting, please apply the instuctions just issued to Groundhog66 to yourself also.

If a need to gain control of the thread becomes apparent, we will make use of the tools we have to silence your participation.


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## Greta (May 24, 2008)

Unless you are posting a bid for one of the lights being auctioned off in this thread, please refrain from posting. One of you has already been banned for trashing this thread and being just plain rude and uncivil. I'd rather not ban anyone else... but I will if necessary.

*Peter*... I think you've managed to find the "fine line" and cross it. Selling your products in this forum has been fine. Occasional auctions of one or two *CUSTOM* items has been fine. Mass auctions of production products is not fine. 

Please wrap up this auction of these 10 lights and then that's it. No more. If you would like to *SELL* these lights on CPF, please purchase a Manufacturer's subscription at the MarketPlace and sell them in the Manufacturer's Corner. 

Thank you, in advance, for your cooperation.


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## DecimusQ (May 25, 2008)

I just made a $5k bid on one of the auctions hope i win.


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## MercMaca (May 25, 2008)

_Contents of post removed by Greta... not a bid._


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## paulr (May 25, 2008)

Greta, you do understand that this wasn't started as an auction thread where people put bids, right? It was an announcement of a bunch of Ebay auctions that Peter put up. Any actual bidding has to take place on Ebay, not here. So if posts that aren't bids can't go on this thread, then you should probably just close the thread.


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## McGizmo (May 25, 2008)

They say to vote with your wallet and it is advice I have given myself from time to time. This I am willing to do but I doubt I will have the opportunity to cast a vote this time around. I put a bid in on a couple of these but my max bid is below what I feel these lights are worth and more importantly likely to fetch. 

I would have preferred to be able to just buy one of these and I would have actually preferred preferential treatment in a specific offer to get one of these.  However that is not to be the case and I can certainly live with that. I respect Peter and the company making these lights right to offer them up as they best see fit and I think they have some good reasons in doing what they have done even though it is not in keeping with expectations, desires and possibly even previous statements.

It seems this thread is headed towards a derailment which is unfortunate as I doubt it serves anyone's best interest but such is life. My interest first and foremost is in the Arc6 and given a chance to possibly get one is a chance I have elected to take. I appreciate Peter posting links in this thread to the auctions as I know I would not have had the gumption to try to monitor E-Bay for these auctions on my own.

For some, the lights have become secondary to issues related to the man and the process of making them available. I believe this is by right of individual choice and I choose not to focus beyond the the light itself.


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## JohnTz (May 25, 2008)

Wow what a shame the ARC story has to end in this way. No bid from me, I don't buy anything from ebay. 

I do have significant interest in the light and was at one time a big supporter of patience and understanding for Peter and all the challenges he was having. But ebay is a place of significant scandal and transient retailers who use it for various reasons to sell their goods vs. normal channels. Not the kind of place that makes me feel good about a high end light manufacturer. $275 for the light with two battery tubes seems reasonable and many would of been pleased to buy these from the Arc site and all of this could have been eliminated. I hope the risk, the bad press and the ultimate increase in the sell price will be worth it for Peter. But after the fees are paid and one accounts for the collateral damage done to the customer base, I strongly doubt it.

But like Don, I am intrigued by the light. Not neccessary for the form factor, I have Don's wonderful PD lights, but more so for the electronics package. I hope that at least a few of the people who do buy them are cpf people and we do hear about how the driver and the UI work out. I know that a viable high end driver is in great demand by a few custom light manufacturers who's lights I eagerly want and in some strange way I was hoping that this driver design if sucessful would be made available to them. 

I know wishful thinking


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## adnj (May 25, 2008)

I guess that no one had time to notice this on the aution page:
"All auctions come with a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. You may return the light for a full refund for any reason. Lifetime warranty against manufacturer's defects."

I've have NEVER seen that on any eBay auction; but maybe I haven't been looking hard enough.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (May 25, 2008)

adnj said:


> I guess that no one had time to notice this on the aution page:
> "All auctions come with a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. You may return the light for a full refund for any reason. Lifetime warranty against manufacturer's defects."
> 
> I've have NEVER seen that on any eBay auction; but maybe I haven't been looking hard enough.



Depends on the item. I've seen guarantees like that before. 

I do find it disturbing that a member with 3k+ posts is summarily banned like this. This is a fine line and we're all a little miffed. How 'bout a warning shot, or let this die down a little? 

I'm also concerned about the allowance of the phrase "place of business" to pass without an official word. This isn't the marketplace. It seems like, should this type of atmosphere continue, there could certainly be undertones (or overtones) of partiality to certain lights/manufacturers. Not cool! :thumbsdow


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## Kiessling (May 25, 2008)

Valpo, moderator actions are not up for discussion on CPF. Please use PM or email for that.

We know that the situation is somewhat "tense" right now, which is why there haven't been more sanctions used by staff.

Back on track now, please. Thanx for your cooperation. 

bernie


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## Greta (May 25, 2008)

paulr said:


> Greta, you do understand that this wasn't started as an auction thread where people put bids, right? It was an announcement of a bunch of Ebay auctions that Peter put up. Any actual bidding has to take place on Ebay, not here. So if posts that aren't bids can't go on this thread, then you should probably just close the thread.


 
paul... I guess you got the point of my post then, eh? Yes, I am aware that this thread is just an announcement of auctions on ebay. Which would mean that it shouldn't be here at all. If anything, it belongs at the MarketPlace in the "Other auction notices" forum. 

As I posted earlier, the "fine line" has officially been crossed. There have been no hard-fast "rules" for this forum... the CPF Custom Builders and Modders forum. It seemed that there didn't need to be. Those who have their own sub-forums here seemed to have understood the concept of this forum and the creation of "rules" seemed unnecessary. I believe those days are now over.

As posted HERE:

*Manufacturer*: A manufacturer is commercially involved as a maker of goods produced independently of significant input and/or participation/involvement from CPF's membership, and doesn't significantly produce any goods through such significant input and/or participation/involvement. The use of an outside retail and/or wholesale business website is not necessarily a requirement or an exclusion for manufacturer status on CPF or CPFMP. 


*Custom Builders & Modders*: For the purposes of any forums associated with CandlePowerForums, (CPF proper, the MarketPlace, the Underground), a custom builder or modder *can be a manufacturer. *However, the distinction would be that the manufacturer started their business here on CPF and is still with us, at least to a reasonable extent. A few examples would be McGizmo, The Sandwich Shoppe, Arc, Peak, Lumencraft, Barbolight, and a few others. A few examples of Custom Modders would be cmacclel, milkyspit, and several others. (Please do not assume that if you are not specifically named here, you do not qualify. I just don't have time to list everyone). 

As most of you can see, the line is indeed very fine. But I do think that at this point, it isn't difficult to see that it has been crossed. Peter is no longer the manufacturer of the Arc flashlight. He is a manufacturer's rep. That in itself does not *DIS*qualify the Arc sub-forum from being allowed to be here. "Significant input and/or particaption/involvement from CPF's membership" is where things get murky. From my own observations and speaking for no one but myself, I'd have to say that there has been little to none of that in the case of the Arc6. However, the CPF membership sure has supported Peter and this product and has been very anxiously awaiting it's availability to them. 

Perhaps the "line" is where the long anticipated product is being sold and the manner in which it is being sold. The very consumers who have been the biggest supporters (and to which a good portion of the credit for it's perceived value and popularity belongs) are having to compete to own this product not by it's availability but by the size of their wallet. Many of them feel betrayed. And who can blame them? Sure, these auctions are a marketing technique and very well could turn out to be a good one for the manufacturer. But it also smacks of the term "biting the hand that feeds you". (my opinion, of course).

Will there be more Arc6's after these 100 (give or take) are auctioned off on ebay? Who knows? Is this a way for the manufacturer to get the most out of what has already been produced, cut their losses on the project and move on to another? Who knows? We've seen before on CPF where a "limited edition" of a flashlight with a "limited # created" turned out not to be the case at all. We all suffered from that. Is this another case of that? Who knows? One could speculate all day and probably not even come close to the truth. 

The point is though that the idea for the very existance of this forum and it's sub-forums came from none other than Peter himself. The Arc flashlight was born here on CPF. Peter Gransee became a household name in the flashlight industry because of CPF. The members of CPF felt that Peter and the Arc flashlight deserved to be spotlighted on CPF. The members of CPF _WANTED_ to support Peter and the Arc flashlight. "The little guys"... remember when we referred to Arc as that? With Surefire and Maglite and Streamlight being "the big guys"? We were damn proud of our "little guys" and still are. And we support them wholeheartedly with our enthusiasm, input, participation, involvement, spotlighting and.... our wallets. 

The question now is, what is or should be allowed in these "little guys" forums? I guess that for me it is the marketing. These forums should be for the purpose of developing and selling a product. As I posted earlier, selling the products in this forum has been fine. Occasional auctions of one or two *CUSTOM* items has been fine. Where I believe the line has been crossed is that these lights are not for sale here on CPF. They are not even for auction here on CPF. This flashlight is *NOT* available for purchase to the very people who supported it's very existance and supported Peter. And while I don't have a problem with a company doing business in a manner which they feel is best for them, I feel that this type of business practice does not belong in a forum here on CPF that was created to represent and support "the little guys". This type of marketing more closely resembles "the big guys".

I and many other CPF members have worked very hard to maintain the integrity and original concept of CPF... that of the discussion of lights and their technology, as well as shining a spotlight on those "little guys" who give freely of themselves and their talents to the community. And so with that, I feel that if Peter would like to continue with this type of marketing, it is only fair that he take it to the MarketPlace. Either to the Manufacturer's Corner or the Other auction notices forum. I really don't care which. I'm glad that Peter and the Arc flashlight have made it to "the big guys" and I wish them the best of luck and prosperity in the future. As with all other graduations, this one too should be celebrated... :twothumbs

As for closing this thread? Soon. Remember that it isn't *WHAT* you say, it's *HOW* you say it.


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## LouRoy (May 25, 2008)

I am very saddened by this turn of events. I own many Arc lights, but I will be making no bids on Ebay for these latest lights. It puts a very bad taste in my mouth how this has been handled and I now feel I may never own another Arc flashlight. 

Fortunately, I have many other wonderful options.


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## MorpheusT1 (May 25, 2008)

I cannot believe you people,

The Arc is now available and all i hear is negative comments.
Sure i could have wished for a diffrent aproach.But this is what we got.
For those not wanting to jump in right now i think there will be plenty lights when this batch is done and all the wrinkles has been ironed out.
And not to mention when the Reviews are done,so everyone can make theire decition after it has been published.

For those waiting,look at it this way.
If this turns out to be a grape,you can decide whether to buy one based on the reviews to come.

Yes i have made a bid and i cannot wait to try one of these.


Benny


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## Nitroz (May 25, 2008)

To me the Arc has lost its soul, what made it an Arc. The light looks like a McGizmo creation and not an Arc, not that their is anything wrong with the quality and look of a Gizmo light, it's just not an Arc anymore. 

Good luck with your sales.


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## lightbulb (May 25, 2008)

Weird stuff, thousands of people dying in the world, people losing their houses, and yet people are crying if they can't get access to a flashlight. I think you'll live if you don't get one.


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## Optik49 (May 25, 2008)

:shakehead


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## powernoodle (May 25, 2008)

The frustration of the naysayers - among whom I include myself - may be that while this light has "Arc" stamped on it, it is based on someone else's design, is manufactured by someone else's company, and now is sold on some else's website. And the icing on the cake is that Peter stated elsewhere that he is likely headed out the door for good.

Sticking this first run on ebay was the nail in the coffin, and while it will generate more revenue on these first 100 or so lights, it has so frustrated many of us that subsequent sales will suffer. At least in my case it will suffer. JMO. Seriously - how many folks outside of CPF are going to pay $300 for a dang 1xCR123 light?

And no, lightbulb, its not life and death. But no one here is crying about it. We're just saying that the bubble has burst and we are moving on.


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## griff (May 25, 2008)

Hey Bulb....This is my HOBBY. It's also my escape from the Reality of our world today. Check yourself



lightbulb said:


> Weird stuff, thousands of people dying in the world, people losing their houses, and yet people are crying if they can't get access to a flashlight. I think you'll live if you don't get one.


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## McGizmo (May 25, 2008)

On the surface, the Arc6 may appear to be just another "Gizmo" light but this is not where Peter has been focused and this is not where Peter is hoping to make his "contribution" to the "art". These lights use a K2 LED which is not available in additional quantities to Peter now and there is no telling if or when more of these LED's would be available. The potential and specs of the LED *will* effect the ultimate performance and specs of the light. Because of this, I see reason for these lights to be treated differently than production units moving forward and especially in consideration that production lights will quite possibly have different LED's in them.

There are beta testers presently taking the Arc6 through its paces but this is not about the LED or the package design as much as it is about the performance and aspects of the converter and its behavior in the field. 

Many feel they have been betrayed in the process and perhaps they have. I don't know what agreements or promises have been expressed or assumed in this long road behind us.

All I do know is that I have freedom of choice as a buyer and I certainly feel Peter is entitled to freedom of choice as a seller. If agreement can't be reached between buyer and seller then so be it.


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## JohnTz (May 25, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> There are beta testers presently taking the Arc6 through its paces but this is not about the LED or the package design as much as it is about the performance and aspects of the converter and its behavior in the field.
> 
> .


 
Hi Don,

I had this wild hope that this converter would be killer and that you would have access to them since Peter used your PD design. Then we would get a bunch of cool new McGizmo Ti lights using this killer converter. Alas it seems it really was just a dream and nothing more. 

I need to stop thinking that the world is a nice place.


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## kenster (May 25, 2008)

Yup, ya gotta luv *Freedom of Choice! *

*New bidder in da house! *


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## turbodog (May 25, 2008)

powernoodle said:


> ... Seriously - how many folks outside of CPF are going to pay $300 for a dang 1xCR123 light?
> ...



Exactly what I said. Especially for an unknown mfg.


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## Greta (May 25, 2008)

*GRIFF!!*... please adjust your sigline. It is inappropriate. Thank you in advance.


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## griff (May 25, 2008)

Greta said:


> *GRIFF!!*... please adjust your sigline. It is inappropriate. Thank you in advance.



Roger!


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## Frenchyled (May 25, 2008)

I would have prefer to buy one directly from ArcFlashlight 

So, I could trade one Surefire Titan for one of these 10 ARC6, if you're interested just let me know by PM.


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## MercMaca (May 25, 2008)

griff said:


> Roger!




:whoopin:


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## bmstrong (May 25, 2008)

I cannot believe that this was done this way. I thought that this suggestion that they were going to be sold on eBay was just a tound and cheek joke? I must have read that wrong.

What a slap in the face to the loyal Arc crowd...


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## Greta (May 25, 2008)

MercMaca said:


> :whoopin:


 
Bye again Groundhog66... wanna go for a permanent ban?


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## yaesumofo (May 25, 2008)

It seems silly to me to have all those auctions end at the same moment. This doesn't give an unsuccessful bidder an opportunity to try to bid on another light. Once again this shows a lack of foresight in this plan.
Why not stagger the auctions so that more people will have a real chance to get a light.
Say for example I want number 69 and I bit $400.00 for it but somebody else wants that number and is willing to pay $450.00 for it. OK that's fine. But it is now impossible for me to bid on a second light since the auctions are all over at the same time. OK so instead I bid on multiple lights at the same time so I can be sure to Winn the bid on at least one. What if I am the bidding winner for more than one? I might be stuck with multiple lights.
Anyway you look at it this all auctions ending at the same time really makes the whole situation much more difficult for the average ordinary guy who wants one of these lights. 
Peter I suggest that you either RESTART these auctions and shorten the length and stagger the end times or on the next batch stagger them so that more bidders will have an opportunity to get a light should they loose the bidding on the light they are bidding on. BTW I recomend a staggering of somthing like an hour at the very least 15 minutes. one or two minutes is really not enough time.
Yaesumofo


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## kenster (May 25, 2008)

I think it is great the way it is. The games have begun and I have a week to enjoy watching folks talk & talk about it and _*learn*_. :tinfoil: Anyway,  I _*hope*_ I end up with a light??? :candle: 

I bet I will!!!


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## toby_pra (May 25, 2008)

> Today, 09:09 PM
> 
> 
> yaesumofo
> ...


 
Hi Yaesumofo!

i think you are right. i did not see yet that the auctions end up at the same time. thats not fine...on the other side you mst decide, which one 
you will buy or not. but i think the prices will go high...to high for me


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## HoopleHead (May 25, 2008)

to everyone bidding up the price right now, way before the auction ends... learn how to snipe on eBay you n00bs!

p.s. im bidding for sure!


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## Cyclops942 (May 25, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> It seems silly to me to have all those auctions end at the same moment. This doesn't give an unsuccessful bidder an opportunity to try to bid on another light. Once again this shows a lack of foresight in this plan.
> Why not stagger the auctions so that more people will have a real chance to get a light.
> Yaesumofo





Note that this is only the first 10. Perhaps these suggestions will be used when the next auctions are set.


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## Cuso (May 25, 2008)

HoopleHead said:


> to everyone bidding up the price right now, way before the auction ends... learn how to snipe on eBay you n00bs!
> 
> p.s. im bidding for sure!


Are you calling the people that won't be around in the auction end, n00bs?? That comment is out of line...:thumbsdow


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## paulr (May 25, 2008)

Nitroz said:


> To me the Arc has lost its soul, what made it an Arc. The light looks like a McGizmo creation and not an Arc, not that their is anything wrong with the quality and look of a Gizmo light, it's just not an Arc anymore.
> 
> Good luck with your sales.



Ehh? Don has always been just about the foremost designer on CPF, so I see his involvement in the Arc6 project as a great thing. And if you're going to look at it that way, you might also consider HDS's involvement in the Arc4+ (which was to some extent a repackaged HDS Action Light), or even remember that the Arc AAA is basically a scaled-down CMG Infinity. Arc's strength has always involved building on what had been done before. 

The idea of selling the initial Arc6's on Ebay was discussed extensively on the "new LS" thread before Peter went ahead with it, so it shouldn't come as a shock to anyone who followed that thread. Yes there were a few vehement opponents like Groundhog66 but they seemed to me to be a vocal minority. My own view was that I wasn't going to bid on ebay myself but I was ok with the initial units being sold that way (I'd just wait for regular units to be available the normal way if I were to buy one at all). 

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the reasoning behind the auction. Basically it's an attempt to thwart the practice of buyers scooping up scarce new lights in order to flip them for a profit, by letting ebay set the initial price at equlibrium and send the extra profit to the actual lightmaker instead of to some opportunistic middleman. Some other makers including Mr. Bulk in CPF's old days and Peter Atwood in the knife/tool world, have used alternate anti-flipping methods such as cutting off known flippers from future sales, but that doesn't work so well for a maker like Arc which normally does larger production runs in which there's no scarcity to cut people off from. In the Arc6 case I think the scarcity effect may not be so large as to make the ebay nonsense worth it, but the idea is fundamentally reasonable. On a larger scale there was likewise some gnashing and wailing on Wall Street when Google did something similar with its IPO, but their stock has done just fine since then.


----------



## datiLED (May 25, 2008)

This is an unfortunate turn of events.  I was holding out hope that these lights would have been sold on the Arc website.


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## Hodsta (May 25, 2008)

I am a newbie in the grand history of CPF but I would hope that Peter recognises his contribution to CPF and in turn the contribution CPF has made to his lights, to him and his finances. 

At the very least I would expect that CPF users are given the respect of openess and transparancy with regard to what Peter knows about the future of these lights rather than the cryptic clues given thus far.

I cannot agree with selling beta lights without any disclaimer, am disatisfied with poor and sometimes misleading communications but respect the choice of the company to sell the light in any way that they think best. 

To us CPFers this is just a light, take it or leave it, to Arc this is the future, or not, of their business. A company clearly needs to take care of it's reputation and when they are careless with such an important aspect of business you have to ask how much futher the carelessness extends, in my opinion. 

I respectfully ask for some openess about the future plans for production, support and warranty on these lights, otherwise in this position uncertainty I will assume the worst. 

I am out, and will never own another Arc light unless Peter and Arc can go above and beyond to address these concerns and the numerous concerns expressed by others.


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## jbviau (May 25, 2008)

Cuso said:


> Are you calling the people that won't be around in the auction end, n00bs?? That comment is out of line...:thumbsdow



Name-calling aside, the auctions do end on a Sat. night. I doubt that all of these bidders will be away from an internet connection then. 

I have no intention of buying an Arc6, on eBay or otherwise, but I do occasionally get frustrated by the inflationary effect of early bidding in auctions like these. I feel bad for those of you who are really jonesing for this light.


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## Cuso (May 25, 2008)

jbviau said:


> Name-calling aside, the auctions do end on a Sat. night. I doubt that all of these bidders will be away from an internet connection then.
> 
> I have no intention of buying an Arc6, on eBay or otherwise, but I do occasionally get frustrated by the inflationary effect of early bidding in auctions like these. I feel bad for those of you who are really jonesing for this light.


What inflationary effect?? Isn't that the whole point of an auction, keep raising the price until the high bid wins? Or engage in a bid war at the last seconds and cut your chances of winning the thing? Don't get me wrong , bid sniping works, but in cases like this, specially now that the closing times are so short apart , I prefer bidding what I think its worth now, and not worry about having to be in front of the computer in the closing seconds... I'm sorry if the snipers game is been thwarted by the evil early bidders, but its all fair game...:nana: But that is my opinion and I could be wrong..:wave:


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## paulr (May 25, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Why not stagger the auctions so that more people will have a real chance to get a light.
> Say for example I want number 69 and I bit $400.00 for it but somebody else wants that number and is willing to pay $450.00 for it. OK that's fine. But it is now impossible for me to bid on a second light since the auctions are all over at the same time.


 Well the plan as originally announced was to auction a total of 100 lights, so if you bid on one of the first batch of 10 and don't win, then wait for the next batch; and if you don't get one from any of the batches, then get one from the Arc web site after the 100 auctions have finished. Whether this plan will actually run to completion doesn't look so good right now, of course.

As for your other questions (and Cuso's) I think you are basically asking things that nobody including Peter knows the answers to. There will always be uncertainty in the world and even fully formed plans don't always go through as intended. It's best to just take the uncertainty into account when choosing your own plans, and be ready to respond adaptively to events as they occur. I think the basic intentions have been stated: these are production lights, they will be warrantied, the first 100 will be auctioned and the later ones will be sold on Arc's web site. Knowing more specifics with certainty (including whether the intentions will be matched by reality) probably requires a crystal ball that doesn't exist.


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## Greta (May 25, 2008)

paulr said:


> Well the plan as originally announced was to auction a total of 100 lights, so if you bid on one of the first batch of 10 and don't win, then wait for the next batch; and if you don't get one from any of the batches, then get one from the Arc web site after the 100 auctions have finished.


 
I guess I'm a little confused. The ebay listings say, _"Only 50 of these are made. All are being sold by auction."_ Peter's first post in this thread implies that 100 were made but some were scrapped due to QC issues. So.... does that mean that _*half*_ of those produced got scrapped because they were substandard?!?!? :thinking::shrug::candle: Why do the auctions say there are only 50 of these made? What am I missing here???


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## yaesumofo (May 25, 2008)

Peter has said that he is getting a 50% failure rate in his initial (hand built by him with selected components) production.
Seems like a very high failure rate to me. he said he would auction off the first 100 lights produced ....which pass qc..

The whole thing seems a little OFF to me.
Yaesumofo




Greta said:


> I guess I'm a little confused. The eBay listings say, _"Only 50 of these are made. All are being sold by auction."_Peter's first post in this thread implies that 100 were made but some were scrapped due to QC issues. So.... does that mean that _*half*_ of those produced got scrapped because they were substandard?!?!? :thinking::shrug::candle: Why do the auctions say there are only 50 of these made? What am I missing here???


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## GarageBoy (May 26, 2008)

I hope this isn't out of line:
seems like a rat race to hype the product that's starting to fall apart fast


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## bmstrong (May 26, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Peter has said that he is getting a 50% failure rate in his initial (hand built by him with selected components) production.
> Seems like a very high failure rate to me. he said he would auction off the first 100 lights produced ....which pass qc..
> 
> The whole thing seems a little OFF to me.
> Yaesumofo



Couldn't agree more on that point.


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## greg_in_canada (May 26, 2008)

Greta said:


> I guess I'm a little confused. The ebay listings say, _"Only 50 of these are made. All are being sold by auction."_ Peter's first post in this thread implies that 100 were made but some were scrapped due to QC issues. So.... does that mean that _*half*_ of those produced got scrapped because they were substandard?!?!? :thinking::shrug::candle: Why do the auctions say there are only 50 of these made? What am I missing here???



This post seems to have the answer: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2492299&postcount=70

It appears to be a conservative guess since he hasn't reworked all of the DOAs yet and expects to lose some (rare) LEDs in the process.

Cheers - Greg


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## CM (May 26, 2008)

Hodsta said:


> ...I cannot agree with selling beta lights without any disclaimer, am disatisfied with poor and sometimes misleading communications but respect the choice of the company to sell the light in any way that they think best...



These are not beta lights. They've been in beta test for at least a year (around a year and a half if you count the pre-beta units). I have not found any flaws on mine and I know what the last few issues were on this light and they have been addressed. Please go to the beta test thread where all the current users have posted their observations.


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## Cyclops942 (May 26, 2008)

Greta said:


> I guess I'm a little confused. The ebay listings say, _"Only 50 of these are made. All are being sold by auction."_Peter's first post in this thread implies that 100 were made but some were scrapped due to QC issues. So.... does that mean that _*half*_ of those produced got scrapped because they were substandard?!?!? :thinking::shrug::candle: Why do the auctions say there are only 50 of these made? What am I missing here???



There were 100 K2 TF LEDs available. Because of high failure rates in the early production mini-batches (poor terminology), 50 is a guess of how many will pass QC, not an actual number that's already been obtained.


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## shannow (May 26, 2008)

OMG!!! Its finally happened!! This is awesome!!!



Groundhog the little child got banned!!! hahahah



Oh yeah the arc6 is finally here... might have to bid..


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## Edwood (May 26, 2008)

HoopleHead said:


> to everyone bidding up the price right now, way before the auction ends... learn how to snipe on eBay you n00bs!
> 
> p.s. im bidding for sure!



That's the beauty of eBay. Since eBay hides bidder names, it makes it that much easier for shill bidding. Although you can see bid activity with the buyers. So you can see how much of their bid activity is with that seller, but that's about it. There used to be a great tool for really checking into further back into bid history to see real bid patterns to sniff out real shill bidding accounts. But eBay changed that. Either way, it's a win win for eBay since it just drives up the price. It's a seller's market on eBay. :thumbsdow


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## kenster (May 26, 2008)

Hodsta said:


> I am a newbie in the grand history of CPF but I would hope that Peter recognises his contribution to CPF and in turn the contribution CPF has made to his lights, to him and his finances.
> 
> At the very least I would expect that CPF users are given the respect of openess and transparancy with regard to what Peter knows about the future of these lights rather than the cryptic clues given thus far.
> 
> ...


 
Howdy Hodsta! :wave:

You know better than most about the goofball nutcase Krazy Kenster. :tinfoil: That`s me!  So please hang in there with me my friend.  Come on, this isn`t mine, yours or any of us sad sack CPF flashaholics life changing type of event which leaves us no choice but to stand up and demand to be heard because well :thinking:...:shrug: ... INJUSTICE??? :thinking: Get`em!  Uhhh   Request  Not mine or any Arc light owners *RIGHT? *to be..... :thinking: .... _*OFFENDED???*_ :duh2: What CPF member actually *NEEDS *one of these lights??? :candle:  NEVERMIND!  Think of the sign at a ice house/gas station "No Shirt, No Shoes, _*NO SERVICE*_". Cool, so :thinking:... if you don`t like it go somewhere else, I guess??? :shrug: Duhhh!  I have rules at my house the same as all of us do at our homes or business and if anyone don`t like it  go somewhere else please and _*BE OFFENDED PLEASE! *_:nana: HEHE! J/K  Oh, if owning one of these lights is life or death for someone send me a PM with the serial # of the light you _*NEED*_ to survive and I will make it yours sad sack!  Oh..... 

Play nice folks! 

Me


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## DM51 (May 26, 2008)

shannow, please note that discussion of bannings is prohibited.


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## sskyy (May 26, 2008)

Well I *really* NEED #0088:lolsign:


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## Haz (May 26, 2008)

It's great to see these finally available. I don't really mind how they are sold, as long as they are available and can be bought, at what price i don't know. I wonder why the start price has been set at $275, perhaps this is an indication of the future sale price, i thought at $0.99, the end result will still be the same :shrug:


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## JohnTz (May 26, 2008)

GarageBoy said:


> I hope this isn't out of line:
> seems like a rat race to hype the product that's starting to fall apart fast


+1


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## SaturnNyne (May 26, 2008)

Kenster: It's 5am and I just returned from an emergency visit to the doctor; I have a life-threatening fever. He told me the only certain cure is an Arc6. Any would work, but one with an 8 in the serial would likely lead to quickest recovery due to the rejuvenating effects of the eight/infinity sign resemblance phenomenon. Unfortunately, my health insurance does not cover flashlights. Barring this treatment, my only slim hope for a cure is more cowbell.


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## Hodsta (May 26, 2008)

kenster said:


> Howdy Hodsta! :wave:
> 
> You know better than most about the goofball nutcase Krazy Kenster. :tinfoil: That`s me!  So please hang in there with me my friend.  Come on, this isn`t mine, yours or any of us sad sack CPF flashaholics life changing type of event which leaves us no choice but to stand up and demand to be heard because well :thinking:...:shrug: ... INJUSTICE??? :thinking: Get`em!


 
Clearly this is not life changing for any of us (well maybe Hogs) but it certainly qualifies as a "stand up and demand to be heard" type event. The clue, if you look closely, is all the people standing up and demanding to be heard!:kiss:





kenster said:


> Uhhh   Request  Not mine or any Arc light owners *RIGHT? *to be..... :thinking: .... _*OFFENDED???*_ :duh2: What CPF member actually *NEEDS *one of these lights??? :candle:  NEVERMIND!  Think of the sign at a ice house/gas station "No Shirt, No Shoes, _*NO SERVICE*_". Cool, so :thinking:... if you don`t like it go somewhere else, I guess??? :shrug: Duhhh!  I have rules at my house the same as all of us do at our homes or business and if anyone don`t like it  go somewhere else please and _*BE OFFENDED PLEASE! *_:nana: HEHE! J/K


 
Totally agree, if I don't like the way this is being sold or trust the product or the company I've the right to buy it or not. But, in the very same way Peter has the right to answer to my complaint, and potentially influence my decision, or not! 

To some, buying the Arc6 will be a significant purchase, possibly causing other purchases to be forgone in the hope that it will be something very special. There is a lot of expectation around this light, but also a slightly funny smell, that can hopefully be cleared up by some straightforward communication.



kenster said:


> Oh, if owning one of these lights is life or death for someone send me a PM with the serial # of the light you _*NEED*_ to survive and I will make it yours sad sack!  Oh.....


Cheers, I'll have #42:nana:


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## TranquillityBase (May 26, 2008)

*Kenster*, any serial number is fine with me...I'm always up for a trade


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## TranquillityBase (May 26, 2008)

Peter, the auctions list both battery sleeves included. Is there one, or two pistons included?

Thanks,
Scott


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## arewethereyetdad (May 26, 2008)

Peter, in the pics the ano color of the head appears different than that of the body. Is that the case for all of them, or are there some units with the same color head and body?


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## Chronos (May 26, 2008)

This is/was one of the lights I've been anticipating for a long, long time. 

I realize my limitations, so there won't be any Earth shattering revelations nor comments of any real depth coming from me.

I've done what I can to keep up with all of the Arc 6-related threads. I've tried to keep an open mind over all of the revelations of the past several weeks. 

In the end I'm simply confused. I could jump to a series of conclusions, but won't as I admit I wouldn't add much to the discussion as some of the conclusions posted in this thread appear quite logical and well presented. The sheer number of assumptions are largely due to a clear lack of facts. Add in the revelations about Peter's true relationship with Arc and I can understand why something of a firestorm of dissent has erupted.

This was going to be my first Arc. I've decided to "sit on the sidelines" and watch the action instead. There are so many great lights out there, often by builders whose reputations are solid, whose sale policies are clear, and whose role in their creation, assembly, and support are well defined. 

I keep reminding myself this is only a light. It is. However, this little, crazy community at CPF have done much to support Arc over the years. I believe the series of revelations about the company, the product, and the sales are disrespectful of the community and our rules. A little clarification would go a LONG way in reestablishing what was a good reputation among us.

Just my $.02, and worth less than 1/2 of that in Europe and the UK today.

:wave:


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## Gransee (May 26, 2008)

arewethereyetdad said:


> Peter, in the pics the ano color of the head appears different than that of the body. Is that the case for all of them, or are there some units with the same color head and body?



Yes, this is the case for all of them. The parts where anodized seperately so they have differences in their shade. 

peter


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## Gransee (May 26, 2008)

Chronos (cool id), it sounds like there is some information you want. Across the various Arc6 threads I have tried to be fairly thorough in that regard. I know it is difficult to find the answer to a specific question. Also, there are some questions I don't know the answer to. Hasn't made the answer any less important or stopped people from asking it. I just keep repeating myself. 

Not sure which thread your questions belong in. Try doing a search to see if I have already answered it and then ask specifically. You may find that other people have the same question.

peter


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## tricker (May 26, 2008)

this is kinda related to bidding...where do you think they'll top out at......I'll say 500$


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## Gransee (May 26, 2008)

I am suprised to see the auctions going so high. Even for an old cpf'er like me, it is sometimes difficult to guage what people are thinking by a few posts here on the CPF. 

My opinion is that things will settle down soon. What fury we did see was a gambit of a few to trying to get more than their fair share. Both the CPF and myself have invested into the Arc6. It would be nice if everyone got a fair return for their contribution. Occasionally you get people who think they invested more than what they actually did. 

By the way, I really do appreciate the CPF admin Greta coming in an cleaning up the thread. Justice requires constant vigilience as you can see. And I will respect her wishes as I have done in the past and I hope to learn what the exact processes are for posting certain types of unsolicited/solicited flashlight news on the CPF. 

Like such fine posts as before, She also had a question regarding yields and venue, like I said, my response was posted in another thread. I could repeat it but I understand the rules (in this case actually a written rule) regarding cross posting. It may not apply specifically to this case but it could be warped by one with their own prejudice so lets not be too careful. I suggest anyone with these questions use the fine search feature of this bbs. A caution though, my answer may not satisfy all or fit a particular agenda. But such is life. 

peter


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## TranquillityBase (May 26, 2008)

TranquillityBase said:


> Peter, the auctions list both battery sleeves included. Is there one, or two pistons included?
> 
> Thanks,
> Scott


I'd like to know, before I place a bid.

Thanks again,
Scott


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## Valpo Hawkeye (May 26, 2008)

The auctions come with both, as the fourth sentence in the description states. :shakehead


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## Gransee (May 26, 2008)

Yes, each sleeve contains a piston, o-ring, battery spring, outer sleeve and in the case of the guarded sleeve, a clip and clip screws.

peter


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## TranquillityBase (May 26, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> The auctions come with both, as the fourth sentence in the description states. :shakehead


Thanks for the help VH...


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## TranquillityBase (May 26, 2008)

Gransee said:


> Yes, each sleeve contains a piston, o-ring, battery spring, outer sleeve and in the case of the guarded sleeve, a clip and clip screws.
> 
> peter


Thanks Peter


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## DM51 (May 26, 2008)

Gransee said:


> ... had a question regarding yields and venue, like I said, my response was posted in another thread. I could repeat it but I understand the rules (in this case actually a written rule) regarding cross posting ... I suggest anyone with these questions use the fine search feature of this bbs.


 I do not think you need to be too worried about the answer falling foul of the rule about cross-posting, but if you are uncomfortable about that, I suggest you give a link to it here, rather than requiring everyone to search for it.


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## toby_pra (May 26, 2008)

Wow i hope everybody is coming down...peter does his best i think!


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## BentHeadTX (May 26, 2008)

I just hope a CPF'er gets one and posts a review. I could buy one but it would cost me $50,000... $500 for the light and $49,500 in divorce lawyer fees.  

Good to see them out on the market and to see how it all comes together in the next few weeks.


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## brotherbob (May 26, 2008)

BentHeadTX said:


> I just hope a CPF'er gets one and posts a review. I could buy one but it would cost me $50,000... $500 for the light and $49,500 in divorce lawyer fees.
> 
> Good to see them out on the market and to see how it all comes together in the next few weeks.



No sane person would even consider a light at that cost unless it was made of silver or titanium. It would have to be a crazed CPF'er.


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## Cyclops942 (May 26, 2008)

brotherbob said:


> No sane person would even consider a light at that cost unless it was made of silver or titanium. It would have to be a crazed CPF'er.



Umm, is there any *other* kind? Look at us, and look at what we write. (Note I'm including myself, here.)


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## N162E (May 26, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> The auctions come with both, as the fourth sentence in the description states. :shakehead


That part of the description must have been removed. I don't see anyplace in the description that states both sleeves are equipped with piston mechanism. That was a question I had also wondered. I'm glad Peter finally came forward with the definative answer. 

"Package includes both battery sleeves, retail box, duracell battery, serial numbered head, clip and instructions"

And yes, I have bids on the lights.


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## McGizmo (May 26, 2008)

Well I have now been outbid on both lights I took a shot at. I think the new "hidden bidder ID" is probably in everyone's best interest on E-Bay but I just know had you guys known I had bid on a light you would have left it alone. :nana:


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## Valpo Hawkeye (May 26, 2008)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Arc6-LED-Flashl...yZ106987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is an auction for ONE (1) flashlight with both battery sleeves as demostrated above.


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## olrac (May 26, 2008)

Cyclops942 said:


> Umm, is there any *other* kind? Look at us, and look at what we write. (Note I'm including myself, here.)



Then you had to pay to be a beta tester, right?


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## Gransee (May 26, 2008)

Across the 10 auctions, the average bid price is now $326.70. This is significantly higher than the price I put them up for. Thank you everyone so much!



I plan on putting the next batch up possibly on saturday the 31st. I could list them individually on the Arc6 webpage and link to that page from here in the Arc forum. Just like I provide links to the sell page for the Arc-AAA.

It would look something like this:
The Arc6 is now available in limited quantities. blurb about features. maybe a photo or 2. Click here (link to Arc6 page) for more information. 

Hopefully, by adding an intermediate page for people to click on, it satisfies the requirement?

Or maybe a link from here to the marketplace where there is another link to the arc6 page, which finally links to the actual auctions. Or maybe mentioning here in the Arc forum that the Arc6 is possibly for sale somewhere is prohibited? Whatever it takes to make people happy. Is this ok?

peter


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## N162E (May 26, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> Well I have now been outbid on both lights I took a shot at. I think the new "hidden bidder ID" is probably in everyone's best interest on E-Bay but I just know had you guys known I had bid on a light you would have left it alone. :nana:


That's 2 of us so far.


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## xcel730 (May 26, 2008)

The auction for serial # 69 is already up to $407 with more than 5 days to go :thinking: . I guess that number is desired by all CPFers. :devil:

Even though the initial batch of Arc 6 is consider to be custom, the price is approaching to the price of a titatium light.


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## greenLED (May 26, 2008)

sniping for $1000 :devil:


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## Cyclops942 (May 27, 2008)

olrac said:


> Then you had to pay to be a beta tester, right?



olrac,

I was merely joking that saying "crazed CPFer" was being redundant, because being somewhat crazed seems to be a prerequisite for joining CPF to begin with; then when you read the posts that many of us make, many of us seem a bit off on the best of days; and when you see the post count of some people and compare it to their join date and do a little math, you find out that some folks spend an AWFUL LOT of time reading and writing in this community (although that does make it a better community and information source for all of us).

It was a failed attempt at humor, nothing more.


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## olrac (May 27, 2008)

Cyclops942 said:


> olrac,
> 
> I was merely joking that saying "crazed CPFer" was being redundant, because being somewhat crazed seems to be a prerequisite for joining CPF to begin with; then when you read the posts that many of us make, many of us seem a bit off on the best of days; and when you see the post count of some people and compare it to their join date and do a little math, you find out that some folks spend an AWFUL LOT of time reading and writing in this community (although that does make it a better community and information source for all of us).
> 
> It was a failed attempt at humor, nothing more.



Oh I get it now, my bad:duh2:


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## mikes1 (May 27, 2008)

Gransee said:


> I am suprised to see the auctions going so high. Even for an old cpf'er like me, it is sometimes difficult to guage what people are thinking by a few posts here on the CPF.
> 
> My opinion is that things will settle down soon. What fury we did see was a gambit of a few to trying to get more than their fair share. Both the CPF and myself have invested into the Arc6. It would be nice if everyone got a fair return for their contribution. Occasionally you get people who think they invested more than what they actually did


 
Peter I have tried not to be too negative about this whole eBay thing but this statement seems to me not to make a lot of sense if you wanted fair set a fair price and sell one per customer
As we all know something is worth exactly what some one is prepared to pay unfortunately not all Arc fans have deep pockets so if you want a first run you need to be loaded is that fair?

I apologise in advance if this causes offence but there you go

And yes I still want an Arc6 


Mike


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## coby1man (May 27, 2008)

I personally like the idea of an auction. It's one of the most optimal way to transfer goods to those who want them the most. Arc should attempt to gain the most dollar for their products, they are not a charity.

Where do these extra dollars go? The extra dollars will help quickly pay down debts owed so that the next manufacturing process can begin. The other extra dollars generated will go to those people who took the business risk to invest into this market, they will now have further validation of this niche flashlight market and will probably increase their R&D dollars for subsequent products. In the end we all benefit.


----------



## Gransee (May 27, 2008)

I hope this is not TMI. You know what they say about having a little knowledge... It is worse than no knowledge or complete knowledge. 

You guys would be suprised how much it costs to develop a light like the Arc6. I have heard of over $250k being spent on a similiar light by another team. I developed the Arc6 for less than that. This is one of the things I feel good about when I reflect on the past 2 years.

The IPOD is a lot more complex but do you know how much it cost to develop? More than most people think it did.

"As we all know something is worth exactly what some one is prepared to pay unfortunately not all Arc fans have deep pockets so if you want a first run you need to be loaded is that fair?"

And you have to be loaded to develop and manufacture one as well. See the connection? Sometimes the market is uncanny at matching cost to value. Fortunately, as volume increases the load is shared by more people and the price drops. Sometimes this takes several years. There are a few nieve people who think the mfg is just trying to gouge the consumer but they would learn quickly if they actually tried to mfg a product themselves.

Don't you worry too much about what you think is fair. Even if the Arc6s went for well over $1k each, CIS would still be left holding a significant bill. This is normal and was expected. That is why we desire to make more than just a 100 units. 

I can see how this ignorance of what things really cost would cause some people to think they own me or my endeavors. This goes back to what I said earlier about some people over estimating their contribution. The CPF contribution is like a key. To get into the building you have to open the door, which is bigger than the little key. But the key opens the door. 

Your contribution is key and I do appreciate it very much. And friends challenge each other to be better. 

I was suprised when I saw you guys being suprised by the complexity of developing the Arc6 based on the few pictures I posted in the first "new LS" thread. I bet people would also be suprised to see the budget for a project like this. I can sympathize. When I was younger I used to think that people didn't build spaceships in their backyard and go the moon because they just didn't want to. Turns out, it is kind of difficult. The dreams of a child versus the realities of life. I want to still dream but dreams that pass over to reality. 

peter


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## Valpo Hawkeye (May 27, 2008)

...but as you said, you're not going to recoup your investment on the 'betas' anyway, so why auction them? Are they rare? Yes. Do they deserve to go for more than MSRP of production lights? Yes. But why didn't you simply put them up for what you feel they are worth, generate some kind of lottery system for CPF'ers and then everyone wins?


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## olrac (May 27, 2008)

I don't get it? Everybody keeps beating this dead horse. It's pretty clear how they are going to be sold. love it, hate it, indifferent to it, but deal with it! It is starting to sound like nagging wife talk,either buy em or not.
(just for the record I don't agree with the whole way this thread was handled by Peter, but it's his decision or his bosses, not mine)


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## sbebenelli (May 27, 2008)

olrac said:


> I don't get it? Everybody keeps beating this dead horse. It's pretty clear how they are going to be sold. love it, hate it, indifferent to it, but deal with it! It is starting to sound like nagging wife talk,either buy em or not.



You tell us to deal with it and then you go ahead and give your 2 cents about how it was handled. Aren't you beating the same dead horse with this comment? 


olrac said:


> (just for the record I don't agree with the whole way this thread was handled by Peter, but it's his decision or his bosses, not mine)


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## EricMack (May 27, 2008)

Guys, nothing is ever 100% perfect about a light, even from the big boys (Titan....). Not even the timing nor way its released. Peter has shared what he's willing to share, which is a lot more than some of us are giving credit for. The auctions are what they are... its Arc's choice, let's hope they get the info they need, and the lights end up in true enthusiasts hands (they will).

How about we show some CPF spirit here, and just congratulate Peter and Arc for bringing out a long awaited product? :twothumbs No reason to keep flogging, enough has already been said.

Bring on the lights!! :thumbsup:


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## brotherbob (May 27, 2008)

Yes quit flogging a dead horse, do like they would in france and eat it.


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## Gransee (May 27, 2008)

Thank you EricMack and thank you bidders. I have worked on this light for a long time and it good to see the day has come for it to ship!

peter


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## olrac (May 27, 2008)

sbebenelli said:


> You tell us to deal with it and then you go ahead and give your 2 cents about how it was handled. Aren't you beating the same dead horse with this comment?



PM sent


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## mikes1 (May 27, 2008)

I dont think responding to another members post is flogging a dead horse

Were the first IPODs auctioned?

I dont really remember worrying about what was fair but that would be my choice would it not

Mike


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## Gransee (May 27, 2008)

mikes1 said:


> I dont think responding to another members post is flogging a dead horse
> 
> Were the first IPODs auctioned?
> 
> ...



You are right, the Ipod was not auctioned. I mentioned the Ipod to encourage people to look beyond themselves and learn about the cost of development, not to make a statement about which venue is best. I gave my opinion on the venue earlier.

And yes, you may unilaterally make up your mind what you think is fair but for fair to actually do any work, it requires consensus. And btw, do you notice how an auction captures consensus so effectively? 

You do have choice in another matter: how you spend your money. I believe if you are unhappy with the situation, you should not bid. Maybe that angle will make you happy?

Simple stuff guys.

Any more questions about this?

peter


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## mspeterson (May 27, 2008)

I have a question.....Who the heck keeps outbidding me!!!
Stop it!!





Congratulations on your achievement, Peter. :twothumbs


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## craigberesh (May 27, 2008)

Ok, I am a little nervous putting in a comment in this thread. As the last thing I want to do is offend anyone here. Well I never had a chance to bid before It got out of my range. For me it takes a lot of saving for me to buy a quality light. (tight budget). So its hard for me to bid as I get outbidded quickly. I really wanted a ARC6 as I have watched it grow on CPF. Perhapts Peter might consider donating 1 or 2 to CPF for a contest or something. This way it benfits CPF and perhapts some of us who do not have deep pockets might just win a ARC6.


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## xcel730 (May 27, 2008)

LOL ... CPFers are aggressive here with bidding here. I'm constantly getting outbidded too. There's more than 4 days left, it's already reaching a level that I cannot afford. I may have to wait for the 2nd wave. Also, I don't care about the serial number, JUST GIVE ME A LIGHT!!!



mspeterson said:


> I have a question.....Who the heck keeps outbidding me!!!
> Stop it!!
> 
> 
> ...


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## sbebenelli (May 27, 2008)

Maybe I missed this. Will there be more Arc6 after the 100? I've seen it asked before and can't seem to find the answer.


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## Cuso (May 27, 2008)

sbebenelli said:


> Maybe I missed this. Will there be more Arc6 after the 100? I've seen it asked before and can't seem to find the answer.


I already asked this question and the answer to my eyes is yes, but how things are standing now Im more inclined to say we hope....This post answered my question.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179689&page=31
post #912


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## CM (May 27, 2008)

The Arc6 has been in development for a very long time with lots of $$ poured into the effort. Do you honestly believe that anyone would pour that amount of effort and resources to build just 100 units? Come on folks, let's put that grey matter between your ears into gear.


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## olrac (May 27, 2008)

CM said:


> The Arc6 has been in development for a very long time with lots of $$ poured into the effort. Do you honestly believe that anyone would pour that amount of effort and resources to build just 100 units? Come on folks, let's put that grey matter between your ears into gear.



I don't think so but sometimes certain projects are deemed ecomonically infeasible only after a whole lot of money and time have been invested. I'm not saying this is the case but to say someone is not using their brain is not right in this case bringing up this question.


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## sbebenelli (May 27, 2008)

CM said:


> The Arc6 has been in development for a very long time with lots of $$ poured into the effort. Do you honestly believe that anyone would pour that amount of effort and resources to build just 100 units? Come on folks, let's put that grey matter between your ears into gear.



Why didn't Peter reply to this then? And this cleary shows the owner of CPF has doubts on whats happening also. I guess you are saying Greta should put that grey matter between her ears into gear also?



Greta said:


> Will there be more Arc6's after these 100 (give or take) are auctioned off on ebay? Who knows? Is this a way for the manufacturer to get the most out of what has already been produced, cut their losses on the project and move on to another? Who knows? We've seen before on CPF where a "limited edition" of a flashlight with a "limited # created" turned out not to be the case at all. We all suffered from that. Is this another case of that? Who knows? One could speculate all day and probably not even come close to the truth.



Why won't Peter just say yes there will be more? Not once that I can remember has he said for sure more are on the way.


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## brotherbob (May 27, 2008)

If there are to be more, will it take more research? If he cannot get more of the K2 LED's I believe it was. will the programming have to change and how long does that take?

Just guessing but if he minimum if was $275 with both sleeves, taking off $50 for one sleeve means $225 for the light. So I would guess cost to build would be under $100. The light should easily be sold for $200 on the website and still allow for a good profit. I believe the $275 price was just to test the waters to see if anybody would buy at that price.


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## Greta (May 27, 2008)

Gransee said:


> Across the 10 auctions, the average bid price is now $326.70. This is significantly higher than the price I put them up for. Thank you everyone so much!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
As I mentioned previously, an announcement in the Other Auctions Notices forum at the MarketPlace or in the Manufacturer's Corner at the MarketPlace would be in line with what is required of the other manufacturers on CPF. 

Now on to other things... or rather revisiting an old thing? :thinking: I understand the whole thing about the original plan being to produce 100 of these at first. But I also understand that there are only 50 of them right now due to some sort of issue with half of the LEDs. Perhaps I missed it, but when are the other 50 going to be made? ARE they going to be made? Are the other 50 going to be just like the first 50? The same LED? Everything the same? And if there are going to be 100 total made, then why do the auctions say that there are only 50 made? Isn't it a bit misleading to those who are bidding on them? They think they are getting one of only 50 made... that's what the auction says. Hell, that makes the light pretty damn valuable! Sure, it's still pretty valuable if it's one of 100 made but let's face it... not quite as valuable. And then the batches after that? I think I read that they will not be the same LED or the same collectible quality? So that means they will be of lesser quality so they can be used instead of collected?  

To sum up.... _Exactly how many in total of these special collectible flashlights are going to be made and auctioned off? _


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## Crenshaw (May 27, 2008)

sbebenelli said:


> Why won't Peter just say yes there will be more? Not once that I can remember has he said for sure more are on the way.


+1

i think ive asked quite a few times......

my head is saying that what he said in the market place thread about CIS is very relevant. He said something about the first 100 at LEAST are definetly happening...beyond that it was uncertain. I think Peter is declining statement before everything is concrete, just like he declined giving a price until it was abit more concrete, etc, etc...

Crenshaw


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## xcel730 (May 27, 2008)

I think he implicitly said yes. I can't remember which post # that was from.


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## Greta (May 27, 2008)

Crenshaw said:


> He said something about the first 100 at LEAST are definetly happening...
> 
> Crenshaw


 
But the first 100 have *NOT* happened! Half of them were scrapped and are going to have to be "tweeked" in one way, shape or form in order to maybe work.


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## xcel730 (May 27, 2008)

I certainly hope there will be at least 100. By the way the auction is looking with 4 days left, I'm pretty much out of the money. I have a few lights that I want to get that's put on hold, so this Arc auction might end up saving me money if I lose the auction.


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## CM (May 28, 2008)

Greta said:


> But the first 100 have *NOT* happened! Half of them were scrapped and are going to have to be "tweeked" in one way, shape or form in order to maybe work.



I wish Peter would chime in here. Peter, where the heck are you?

OK, I'm going to spill some beans. The poor yield was the result of process which is easily correctable. At the time we met with Peter four days ago, he already came up with least one solution to prevent LED damage during assembly. 

Now the question remains whether he can get more of the K2-TFFC's. I think it's a matter of "when" rather than "if" which I know is not comforting to many since we have all waited for a very very long time for the debut of the Arc6. Peter wants the best LED in the Arc6 so even though the Seouls can be substituted with very little effort, he is committed to using K2-TFFC even if it means having to wait. So while I'd like to tell everyone to have patience, I realize this is already asking for a lot so I'm bracing myself to get flogged. 

To the people that got outbid, hey, it's a flashlight and it's not the end of the world. I hate to use the words that I use on my kids whenever they want something NOW and that is Patience will be rewarded. Heck, you might even have to pay much less than $445 for one.



xcel730 said:


> ...this Arc auction might end up saving me money if I lose the auction.



Think of it as an opportunity to buy one for a lot less when they go to production, which I honestly think will happen.


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## Lebkuecher (May 28, 2008)

CM said:


> I wish Peter would chime in here. Peter, where the heck are you?



Maybe taking a break or trying to find a place where he is welcomed? 




xcel730 said:


> I certainly hope there will be at least 100



xcel this picture was posted several days ago, I count about 720 bodies in the picture.


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## SaturnNyne (May 28, 2008)

sbebenelli said:


> Why won't Peter just say yes there will be more? Not once that I can remember has he said for sure more are on the way.


He basically did, again, today, in this thread, post #125, a few posts above one of your own.


Gransee said:


> Don't you worry too much about what you think is fair. Even if the Arc6s went for well over $1k each, CIS would still be left holding a significant bill. This is normal and was expected. That is why we desire to make more than just a 100 units.


Translation: There's a lot of money into this project, that is of course expected, plan to build more than 100 remains unchanged.

I don't understand why there's so much confusion over more being made beyond the first run. We've seen photos of parts to make hundreds of lights sitting ready to go (as Lebkuecher just so helpfully pointed out). We know that Peter wants to continue using the K2TF in the production units if at all possible. If the K2 doesn't work out, we know what led is currently planned to replace it in the regular production units. We know that the reflectors for these alternate leds have already been in stock for months just in case it came to that. This stuff has all been covered, don't worry too much, there'll be more. Anyway, as already mentioned multiple times, it wouldn't make sense for the company to just give up on their investment; even if Peter does leave soon, they're still going to manage to slap together the parts they already have and almost certainly make more beyond that.

Greta's question is valid though: what's with the only 50 claim on the auction listing?


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## Gransee (May 28, 2008)

Good post SaturnNyne. You've have pulled together my previous answers. 

--

btw, I posted earlier this afternoon around 4pm and now 5 hrs later I am posting again. Had dinner, watched a movie with Merri, went for ice cream with some friends. Sorry.

--

This is why I only mentioned 50 in the ebay listing: Like I said before, I don't know what the exact numbers are. I know already that there are potentialy low yields. I wanted to set expectations short and maybe I would be able to deliver a little long. I could have provided a lengthy explanation on how the number might be 50, might be 40, might be 70, might be something else. I estimated 50. I may have not used the word "estimate" when referencing the number 50, and if that happened, it was an oversight on my part. I imagine the difference what the market values each flashlight does depend on if the number is 50 or 100. I understand that. You please understand I don't know what that number is. So with the next set of auctions, I can leave any mention of the total of units out. This means that the bidder is taking a risk. The total may be a number between say 20 and 120. The price of corn may drop next quarter. Blight may destroy the wheat harvest. I don't know. If you are asking me to come up with a definate answer, I am sorry. I can't do that right now. Now you know you don't have a definate answer. You know this affects the value of the item you are bidding. This creates risk. Each bidder needs to come to terms with their comfort level on various risk factors. 


As to what type of LED will be in this or that unit. I don't know that either. Again, I am sorry. I have an order outstanding for more K2s. Future says they have no eta. I am looking at SSC P4s. We may be in a situation where some of the <100 serial numbers that didn't get to have a K2 may get a P4 instead. But if you bid on an auction, the emitter is listed. This means if you bid for a K2, you get a K2. 

My plan all along was regular production of thousands of units. We are not there yet. I know it takes time. This is the goal though. Will it happen for certain. I don't know that. I could get hit by a bus tommorrow. 

As far as making more units beyond the first batch. Gosh I have also answered this question numerous times. Yes, CIS wants to make more. I want to make more. We have all the parts sans the LED to make more. It would make CIS more money to make more. They told me they want to make more. I've said here repeatidly that we plan to make more. Where then is the disconnect? Do I need to say it differently? 

The nature of a bbs makes it difficult sometimes to find information. I know this, you guys should too. Why so quick to draw a negative conclusion? For once, I would like to see some say, "hmm. I have a question. haven't seen peter answer it. I am going to assume he has given a great answer and I just missed it." It seems like some people log onto the CPF and bring all this baggage with them. Failed relationships, problems at work, stuff breaking down, bills, high gas prices, etc. We are all in this together and we need to keep our wits. I am not, "the man" out to get you and the reason your dog bit you this morning. 

I have provided more than enough information. In fact, I may have provided too much information and people are senselessly impailing themselves at random on the sharp edges. 

I do sympathize with you guys. Seems things are a bit more nutty than usual.

btw, it appears that the next set of auctions will be listed in a post made by me in the "Other Auctions Notices forum" of the MarketPlace or in the Manufacturer's Corner at the MarketPlace. I need to set up another type of access for that from I understand.

I am not yet clear if we will be able to discuss the auctions here in the Arc forum after that. Are they ongoing, where do I go to bid, what do they include, etc. It may be a prohibited topic. If so, use the BBS search function to find the appropiate thread. You may want to try various terms to make sure you don't miss the information. 

peter


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## toby_pra (May 28, 2008)

> I plan on putting the next batch up possibly on saturday the 31st. I could list them individually on the Arc6 webpage and link to that page from here in the Arc forum. Just like I provide links to the sell page for the Arc-AAA.
> 
> It would look something like this:
> The Arc6 is now available in limited quantities. blurb about features. maybe a photo or 2. Click here (link to Arc6 page) for more information.
> ...


 
Hello Peter!

The most interesting for me would be, to get to know, how i could get
an Arc-LS on the 31st?1 

Will there only be auctions again, where i have to bid? Or will the next batch sold for a regular price????

If there are auctions again, i do not need to stay awake and look into 
here! Otherwise i had to drink a lot of coffee...:candle: 

Please let us know....


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## CM (May 28, 2008)

Lebkuecher said:


> Maybe taking a break or trying to find a place where he is welcomed?



I felt a lynch mob forming so I yelled out for help :nana: 

Maybe I should take a break from here also, too many people soiling themselves over a flashlight.


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## Crenshaw (May 28, 2008)

Greta said:


> But the first 100 have *NOT* happened! Half of them were scrapped and are going to have to be "tweeked" in one way, shape or form in order to maybe work.



precisely what i am wondering....:thinking:

thats why i have my reservations now about how welll this release is going to work, and whether collectors will be as happy with these as they think they will be, esp upwards of $300

Crenshaw


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## mikes1 (May 28, 2008)

CM said:


> I felt a lynch mob forming so I yelled out for help :nana:
> 
> Maybe I should take a break from here also, too many people soiling themselves over a flashlight.


 

Last time I soiled myself it was a hot curry 

It’s all pleasure and pain right?


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## Gransee (May 28, 2008)

toby_pra said:


> Hello Peter!
> 
> The most interesting for me would be, to get to know, how i could get
> an Arc-LS on the 31st?1
> ...



Mentioned this earlier, of course.  I understand it is hard find stuff unless you know eactly how it was phrased at the time. 

On Saturday the 31st, my plan (meaning it is my wish but not for certain) is to put up another 10 or 20 units for auction. I am ironing out how you guys will be notified of these auctions. 

peter


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## toby_pra (May 28, 2008)

Thanks Peter


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## kenster (May 29, 2008)

Gransee said:


> ......... went for ice cream with some friends. Sorry.
> 
> --
> 
> I do sympathize with you guys.


 
You "sympathize"??? :candle: Oh please!  I *LOVE *ice cream but I wasn`t invited  so...... :nana: HEHE! 

Somebody placed new higher bids on Ebay. :shrug: 

Me


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## billybright (May 29, 2008)

I had a feeling it was you that outbid me earlier on #088 

Anyway I'm out, good luck to all :thumbsup:


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## toby_pra (May 29, 2008)

The last word is not already spoken...:naughty:


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## jch79 (May 29, 2008)

Gransee said:


> My plan all along was regular production of thousands of units.



Will the anodizing be done at the same time for the mass production, so it matches?

Thanks,
john


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## Elakazam (May 29, 2008)

Just a little observation for all you ebay-bidders, if you have not noticed at all:

There is one bidder (H***7, he has only 2 ebay-feedbacks at all) who is bidding on almost every ARC6 auction and he is boosting the prices....

Seems to be somehow curious for me.....so, what do you guys think about that!?


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## darkzero (May 29, 2008)

Elakazam said:


> Just a little observation for all you ebay-bidders, if you have not noticed at all:
> 
> There is one bidder (H***7, he has only 2 ebay-feedbacks at all) who is bidding on almost every ARC6 auction and he is boosting the prices....
> 
> Seems to be somehow curious for me.....so, what do you guys think about that!?


 
As I posted, I suspected that might happen with these as everything else on ebay. If it is indeed happening (& I hope it is not), that's very very dirty!


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## xcel730 (May 29, 2008)

Wow, he's bidded for about 6 or 7 out of the first 10 batches, and he/she already pushed one of them up to over $500+ with 2 more days to go.  . I don't know what the deal is, maybe this guy/gal has the $$$ and really want the Arc-6, or maybe he/she trying to flip it (though for that price, there wouldn't be too much to make), or maybe he/she is playing games :shrug: Based on the hostility this thread has gone, I wouldn't be surprised to see disgruntle ex-fans bidding for it and end up not paying. That's just my speculation though. :shrug:

Well, the bidding has gone above and beyond what I am willing to pay, now back to the waiting game 



Elakazam said:


> Just a little observation for all you ebay-bidders, if you have not noticed at all:
> 
> There is one bidder (H***7, he has only 2 ebay-feedbacks at all) who is bidding on almost every ARC6 auction and he is boosting the prices....
> 
> Seems to be somehow curious for me.....so, what do you guys think about that!?


----------



## Hodsta (May 29, 2008)

darkzero said:


> As I posted, I suspected that might happen with these as everything else on ebay. If it is indeed happening (& I hope it is not), that's very very dirty!


 

This isn't a dirty trick:naughty:, I am certain:thinking: of that, just one very sick and Krazy CPF oo:flashaholic.:thumbsup::tinfoil::nana:

Another thing I'm:thinking: certain of is that he ain't bidding to flip and make a profit.......:twothumbs His intentions are good! :touche:

[VROOM!] :duck::wave:


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## JohnTz (May 29, 2008)

Elakazam said:


> Just a little observation for all you ebay-bidders, if you have not noticed at all:
> 
> There is one bidder (H***7, he has only 2 ebay-feedbacks at all) who is bidding on almost every ARC6 auction and he is boosting the prices....
> 
> Seems to be somehow curious for me.....so, what do you guys think about that!?


 
Welcome to ebay.....:thumbsdow


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## xcel730 (May 29, 2008)

Your use of  makes me very. 



Hodsta said:


> This isn't a dirty trick:naughty:, I am certain:thinking: of that, just one very sick and Krazy CPF oo:flashaholic.:thumbsup::tinfoil::nana:
> 
> Another thing I'm:thinking: certain of is that he ain't bidding to flip and make a profit.......:twothumbs:touche:


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## Hodsta (May 29, 2008)

xcel730 said:


> Your use of  makes me very.


 
haha! I'm sure there is a clue in here somewhere.


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## brotherbob (May 29, 2008)

Elakazam said:


> Just a little observation for all you ebay-bidders, if you have not noticed at all:
> 
> There is one bidder (H***7, he has only 2 ebay-feedbacks at all) who is bidding on almost every ARC6 auction and he is boosting the prices....
> 
> Seems to be somehow curious for me.....so, what do you guys think about that!?



I think its a little Chinese guy that is going to buy it, deconstruct it, copy it, and sell his own version for $100 to all that want it. He might even sell it cheaper, but just overseas where he won't run afoul of patent laws. Even if he does they will just laugh and keep selling them.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (May 29, 2008)

brotherbob said:


> I think its a little Chinese guy that is going to buy it, deconstruct it, copy it, and sell his own version for $100 to all that want it. He might even sell it cheaper, but just overseas where he won't run afoul of patent laws. Even if he does they will just laugh and keep selling them.



you are an idiot! :shakehead


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## IcantC (May 29, 2008)

Wonder if it is some Prince in Nigeria who is buying them all?


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## Daniel_sk (May 29, 2008)

Why go into these bid-wars? Wait until it's a few seconds before auction end and place your true maximum bid... It doesn't make any sense to start the bidding early.


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## xcel730 (May 29, 2008)

Your guess is probably as good as mine. I don't get it either :thinking: people started bid war the moment it went on eBay. I still want to get it, but I'll have to watch on the sideline for the first batch, so best of luck to those who are still bidding.



Daniel_sk said:


> Why go into these bid-wars? Wait until it's a few seconds before auction end and place your true maximum bid... It doesn't make any sense to start the bidding early.


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## Gransee (May 29, 2008)

jch79 said:


> Will the anodizing be done at the same time for the mass production, so it matches?
> 
> Thanks,
> john



The first machined sets were anodized the same time day but probably one after the other, that is what you see in that picture I published awhile back. They match fairly well. This is the same matching the beta testers are seeing. The first batch is a made from the first machined set and there are many more machined sets remaining which subsuquent batches will be assembled from.

peter


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## brotherbob (May 29, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> you are an idiot! :shakehead



Yea like that has never happened. I don't remember calling you names, but I certainly can if you want me to. Do you honestly think that it is not in the realm of possibility.


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## Gransee (May 29, 2008)

Some people might take the comment about the chinease as a racial slur. Not up to cpf standards IMO. 


btw, I don't understand the consternation about auctions. You bid what you feel comfortable. If it goes higher than that, you try another auction. Try not to get emotionally involved, that will just lead to you spending more than you are comfortable with. I have found a lot of good deals on ebay. I just take my time and have fun. It is fun for me to buy things on ebay. I just bought a bunch of laser stuff this past week. 

Usually when I bid, I bid my maximum up front and let ebay draw from that as it is needed. If the auction goes over my maximum, I try another auction of the same item. 

I think the sniping at the last minute is not a good idea. I tried it once and I ended up paying more than I felt comfortable. Now, I just set it and go. 

peter


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## Drywolf (May 29, 2008)

I don't think you understand sniping all together. It is automated and usually submits only one bid with less than 5 seconds left in the bidding. Maybe you do understand and I don't know why you would advise against it? The environment that you created here does not lend itself to sniping as many people are bidding with their hearts. But they are protected as you are offering refunds for any reason. So, if someone felt they paid too much they could just return it for refund. After watching this soap, the return policy is something I would not have counted on, kudos to you.


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## ibcj (May 29, 2008)

Hodsta said:


> This isn't a dirty trick:naughty:, I am certain:thinking: of that, just one very sick and Krazy CPF oo:flashaholic.:thumbsup::tinfoil::nana:
> 
> Another thing I'm:thinking: certain of is that he ain't bidding to flip and make a profit.......:twothumbs His intentions are good! :touche:
> 
> [VROOM!] :duck::wave:




Yup, that was my thought too ! :laughing:


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## Gransee (May 29, 2008)

OK, I guess I don't understand it. Sounds like it involves some sort of automation. I just kept hitting refresh and upping my bid. Then I got stuck paying more than I wanted to. This was years ago. Now I would characterize my ebay experience as fun and productive. 

peter


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## brotherbob (May 29, 2008)

Gransee said:


> Some people might take the comment about the chinease as a racial slur. Not up to cpf standards IMO.



So what do you call somone from china? It is known that they have reverse engineered many things. Usually they then improve upon them.


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## Thujone (May 29, 2008)

ebay sniping.. syncronize your watch with the US atomic clock time.gov and enter your true high bid with less that 10 seconds left in the auction so that no one has time to react to your bid.


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## Drywolf (May 29, 2008)

There are many sniping sites on the internet. Some charge as little as $.25 a successful snipe. Unsuccessful snipes are free. 

:thinking:


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## Thujone (May 29, 2008)

Drywolf said:


> There are many sniping sites on the internet. Some charge as little as $.25 a successful snipe. Unsuccessful snipes are free.
> 
> :thinking:




I cant imagine paying for something so blissfully simple..


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## Drywolf (May 29, 2008)

I've lost numerous bids trying to be faster than another bidder. I've won 95% of bids using sniping websites and the right bid. I will not bid except using automated sniping. Sniping takes all the emotion out of the bidding and I do not have to be in front of a computer when the bidding ends. To each his/her own....

:thumbsup:


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## adnj (May 29, 2008)

BTW, the best way that, IMHO, was to just search for ARC6 at ebay. Flawless. And I set up an alert for anything new.


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## Optik49 (May 29, 2008)

#0088 is up to $507.00 That’s crazy :shakehead


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## skalomax (May 29, 2008)

"crazy" was the idea.


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## xcel730 (May 29, 2008)

It's the same guy that's bidding for five other Arc 6. He drove up all the prices to $400+ :shrug:



Optik49 said:


> #0088 is up to $507.00 That’s crazy :shakehead


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## 270winchester (May 30, 2008)

Optik49 said:


> #0088 is up to $507.00 That’s crazy :shakehead



i think brotherbob isn't too far off.


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## xcel730 (May 30, 2008)

I think Peter was referring to your comments about the "little Chinese guy" devious plan being racial slur. It is true that Chinese do reverse engineering, but so do all countries that manufactures any goods. It's the reverse engineering that constantly bring the consumer better goods. 

What doesn't make sense is, if a company is planning to reverse engineer an Arc 6, would they need to bid for 6 lights on the first batch? I would assume they're smart enough to do reverse engineering, they should be smart enough to be subtle about it. :shrug: Just a thought



brotherbob said:


> So what do you call somone from china? It is known that they have reverse engineered many things. Usually they then improve upon them.


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## Haz (May 30, 2008)

i really hope to be able to score one of these first 100...I will:toilet: myself if i don't get one.
...so if you all stop bidding on #0028, it may give me a chance to own one somewhere below $400 , because i am 
Thank you for your co-operation in advance
In the meantime, i'll keep :sleepy:


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## kenster (May 30, 2008)

skalomax said:


> "crazy" was the idea.


 
Howdy skalomax! :wave:

Enough of the friendly chit-chat :ironic: I hate your ideas! :nana: HEHE! 

Oh, and that bidder with only 2 Ebay feedbacks has pretty nice feedback from his 2 transactions doesn`t he???  

Time to play! :devil: Folks, quit looking for "EVIL MOTIVES"  ....  when they just aint there.


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## darkzero (May 30, 2008)

kenster said:


> Oh, and that bidder with only 2 Ebay feedbacks has pretty nice feedback from his 2 transactions doesn`t he???


 
How do you view his 2 feedbacks? I'm not able to? :thinking:


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## DM51 (May 30, 2008)

brotherbob, there is more than enough offensive and distasteful material in this thread already, without you adding unnecessary racial slurs into the mixture. Please edit your post.

Valpo and others: please do not fan the flames.


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## js (May 30, 2008)

I edited brotherbob's post to get rid of the extra large font. The material itself was plenty in-your-face without making it green size 3 font. However, I did NOT change the content of the post. brotherbob, per DM51's request, please edit your post. Perhaps changing the phrase "a ltitle chinese guy" to "a small flashlight ompany based in China"? Or perhaps remove the reference to China entirely?


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## brotherbob (May 30, 2008)

js said:


> I edited brotherbob's post to get rid of the extra large font. The material itself was plenty in-your-face without making it green size 3 font. However, I did NOT change the content of the post. brotherbob, per DM51's request, please edit your post. Perhaps changing the phrase "a ltitle chinese guy" to "a small flashlight ompany based in China"? Or perhaps remove the reference to China entirely?



You allow valpo hawkeye to call me an idiot and dm51 to whine about offending people and then tell me to edit my post. I think it is you people that have a real problem with reality. You cannot go through life without offending someone sometime and they should be able to live with it. I refuse to edit anything I post.

I am offended that valpo hawkeye called me an idiot, that dm51 is accusing me of a racial slur, that js is telling me what I can and cannot say. I was not slurring anyone merely stating facts about what happens. Since I am offended you must immediately order them to change their posts.
Time to grow up and live in the real world.


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## Greta (May 30, 2008)

brotherbob said:


> You allow valpo hawkeye to call me an idiot and dm51 to whine about offending people and then tell me to edit my post. I think it is you people that have a real problem with reality. You cannot go through life without offending someone sometime and they should be able to live with it. I refuse to edit anything I post.


 
Okie dokie then! See you in a week! :wave:


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## Edwood (May 30, 2008)

xcel730 said:


> It's the same guy that's shilling for five other Arc 6. He drove up all the prices to $400+ :shrug:



Fixed.


----------



## Greta (May 30, 2008)

FWIW... Peter has moderator privileges in this forum and should be considered and given the same respect and deference in this forum as the other administrators and moderators on CPF. As a rule, we leave moderating of posts and threads within this forum up to Peter. We only step in when we see that members are abusing the good nature and/or hospitality of the forum moderator or when the members are blatantly ignoring the moderation of the forum moderator. Such is the case with brotherbob.


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## cnw4002 (May 30, 2008)

Edwood said:


> Fixed.



I agree with Edwood, I also agree with Brotherbob. I would say you people disrespected him far more than he disrespected anyone else. Can't people say anything anymore? My wife is offended that you can use the term serving wench.


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## Greta (May 30, 2008)

cnw4002 said:


> I agree with Edwood, I also agree with Brotherbob. I would say you people disrespected him far more than he disrespected anyone else. Can't people say anything anymore? My wife is offended that you can use the term serving wench.


 
You bring up a valid point... as did brotherbob... regarding Valpo Hawkeye calling him an idiot. That should have been jumped on by the forum moderator at about the same time exception was taken with the _"comment about the chinease"_. As I stated in my last post, we do try to leave the moderation of these "special" forums up to the forum moderator... in this case, Peter. Peter obviously took exception to botherbob's comment... stating that it was _"Not up to cpf standards IMO." _Perhaps Peter missed the "idiot" comment? Probably. I can't imagine he would think that was ok and _"up to cpf standards"._ 

This still does not excuse brotherbob's refusal to edit his post as advised by DM51 and js. However, I think that enough is enough with the high emotions and tempers running amok in this thread and with this topic. I will not add to it. *brotherbob*... I've lifted your ban. Carry on.

RE: Serving Wench... that is a title that I gave to myself. No one else did. I am not offended by it. It is what I do around here afterall, right? Please tell your wife that I appreciate her offense on my behalf... but there's no need... I'm ok with it...


----------



## tricker (May 30, 2008)

cnw4002 said:


> I agree with Edwood, I also agree with Brotherbob. I would say you people disrespected him far more than he disrespected anyone else. Can't people say anything anymore? My wife is offended that you can use the term serving wench.



so back on topic....who will come foward as h**7


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## xcel730 (May 30, 2008)

I think it could have been said so in a more diplomatic manner. This is based on pure speculation and stereotype, and with CPF being a multi-cutural forum, it does leave sour feelings to members who are from that part of the country. I think it's best to envision his comment being broadcast on national TV ... how would the viewers react? 

Well, the point is moot now. The most important thing is ... only one more day before auction end. We should start a thread soon to have members claiming there serial numbers. At the current price point, I could still jump in, but knowing many of us are going to snipe in the last second, I may end up waiting for the next batch.



cnw4002 said:


> I agree with Edwood, I also agree with Brotherbob. I would say you people disrespected him far more than he disrespected anyone else. Can't people say anything anymore? My wife is offended that you can use the term serving wench.


----------



## wolverine1 (May 30, 2008)

This auction is getting interesting. As of now it appears that all the high bids on the lights are coming from two people. One is h***7 and the other is u***l. That would be interesting if these two people ended up with all the lights. :naughty:

Rick


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## kenster (May 30, 2008)

tricker said:


> so back on topic....who will come foward as h**7


 

Hmmm:thinking:........ :shrug: No h***7 when I sign in at my Ebay??? 

HEHE!


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## kenster (May 30, 2008)

darkzero said:


> How do you view his 2 feedbacks? I'm not able to? :thinking:


 

Click on a bidders name to read their feedback.  You will see something like "Super fast payment.... " or "Super lightening fast payment....." for this dudes feedback.


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## Gransee (May 30, 2008)

This is OT but I do try to respond to questions in the same thread they are raised:

My comment about what I thought could be interpreted by some to be a racially demeaning term was not ment as a moderator but as a fellow community member giving a suggestion. 

Greta, I did not know I was supposed to help moderate the Arc forum. I have no emails or PMs giving me that permission. I noticed awhile back my account had the ability but I figured it was a limitation of the BBS software and did not use it. 

I would like to discuss this further in private before agreeing to take on this type of responsibility.

Any rate, this is OT and for the sake of clarity I respond briefly here but we can take this to email if you prefer. 

peter


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## Greta (May 30, 2008)

It has always been so, Peter. That is why you have moderator privileges. Every time you've had your own forum, you've had those privileges and you've been expected to moderate your forum. It has been that way since you first had your own forum on CPF. Nothing changed. And if you are looking for it in writing, it is HERE in the Announcement forum. The quote from my post:



> If you feel that you qualify as a _*Custom Builder or Modder*_ based on the criteria above, please email or PM me with your reasoning. Your "case" will be reviewed by the CPF staff and if deemed appropriate, we would like to provide you with your own sub-forum in the Custom Builders & Modders forum. And before you jump on this, let me tell you that you will be required to moderate your forum and enforce CPF's rules and policies. Of course, you will be given assistance by the CPF staff members and a certain amount of latitude will be allowed but for the most part, you will be expected to maintain civility within the forum.


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## cryhavok (May 31, 2008)

The way these auctions are going, these lights are just going to end up in the hands of 2 people with very deep pockets.

...I guess there are some extremely selfish people on this forum :shrug:


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## tricker (May 31, 2008)

darkzero said:


> How do you view his 2 feedbacks? I'm not able to? :thinking:



from his posts me thinks he has some special abbilites only alloted to a personal profile


sooooo kenster....your the culprit......i guess i'll be waiting on the secon...thir....production phase of these lights at this pace


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## Cuso (May 31, 2008)

I wonder what would happen to the value of this "collectible-priced" lights if tomorrow Lumileds decides to re-release the K2 TFFC, and Peter/CIS carries on with production using the same leds.:thinking:


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## cryhavok (May 31, 2008)

Cuso said:


> I wonder what would happen to the value of this "collectible-priced" lights if tomorrow Lumileds decides to re-release the K2 TFFC, and Peter/CIS carries on with production using the same leds.:thinking:





I sure hope so, because I don't think I will be able to pick one up at the rate that these are selling for...


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## Drywolf (May 31, 2008)

.


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## xcel730 (May 31, 2008)

It's all about supply and demand ... the price will go from $400+ to about $200. 



Cuso said:


> I wonder what would happen to the value of this "collectible-priced" lights if tomorrow Lumileds decides to re-release the K2 TFFC, and Peter/CIS carries on with production using the same leds.:thinking:


----------



## CM (May 31, 2008)

Cuso said:


> I wonder what would happen to the value of this "collectible-priced" lights if tomorrow Lumileds decides to re-release the K2 TFFC, and Peter/CIS carries on with production using the same leds.:thinking:



That's why it's foolish to buy flashlights as collectibles. I'm gonna ruffle some feathers here but it's got to be one of the dumbest things to put your money in unless you're willing to accept that it *will* depreciate in value over the long haul.


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## xcel730 (May 31, 2008)

I'm sure it'll depreciate over time regardless. It's just a matter of how much someone really wants it. That's like buying computers and electronics ... some people pay a premium, knowing that it'll probably cost half the amount in 3-6 months, while others wait until a newer model come out and they buy the previous model at deep discount.


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## Gransee (May 31, 2008)

Greta said:


> It has always been so, Peter. That is why you have moderator privileges. Every time you've had your own forum, you've had those privileges and you've been expected to moderate your forum. It has been that way since you first had your own forum on CPF. Nothing changed. And if you are looking for it in writing, it is HERE in the Announcement forum. The quote from my post:
> 
> [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]



Back in the old days of the CPF, I remember I had moderator privilidges and I did help moderate. This included access to the moderator forum. But when the old business failed, I lost my privilidges and I was no longer a moderator. Then awhile ago, I noticed that I had some moderator capabilities but still no access to the mod forum. Like I said, I figured this was a limitation of the software. I did not see it as permission to start moderating people's posts. I missed your post in the announcement forum requiring me to be a moderator so I was surpised when you said I should moderate. However, it is clear to me now that you do want me to help out with moderating so that is what I will do. 

Sorry for not moderating when I should have been.

peter


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## Gransee (May 31, 2008)

The average for the 10 auctions is now $415/ea. I plan on starting the next set of 20 auctions here in a bit. Since there are more auctions this time around, I expect the bids to be lower (the whole supply and demand thing).

I am still estimating about 50 lights total. I did try glueing the led wires to see if that improved yields but the glue didn't stick to the teflon coated wires (it is teflon  ). Going to try some other adhiesives. I have 45 units assembled but I am still testing them to make sure they all hit their targets. 

peter


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## sskyy (May 31, 2008)

$415  :mecry: Oh well maby the next batch will be lower  I really hope so because I am  Ahhhh another week long auction to survive.  Well done the lucky winners.:thumbsup:


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## CM (May 31, 2008)

Gransee said:


> The average for the 10 auctions is now $415/ea. I plan on starting the next set of 20 auctions here in a bit. Since there are more auctions this time around, I expect the bids to be lower (the whole supply and demand thing).
> 
> I am still estimating about 50 lights total. I did try glueing the led wires to see if that improved yields but the glue didn't stick to the teflon coated wires (it is teflon  ). Going to try some other adhiesives. I have 45 units assembled but I am still testing them to make sure they all hit their targets.
> 
> peter



Instead of glue to the teflon, how about epoxy blob to the leads and around it as a mechanical reinforcement? I'm curious as to what McGizmo does since the construction is identical. It would be surprising if he has not encountered the same issue.


----------



## greenLED (May 31, 2008)

CM said:


> Instead of glue to the teflon, how about epoxy blob to the leads and around it as a mechanical reinforcement?


RTV, maybe? Even if it doesn't stick to the teflon, it'll provide some support to the wires.


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## cryhavok (May 31, 2008)

First round auctions complete


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## ibcj (May 31, 2008)

cryhavok said:


> First round auctions complete



Only kenster is crazy enough to buy 4 of the first 10. 

**Edit - oops, seems as though I was only watching 9 of them. Perhaps he won 5 ? ***


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## cachet (May 31, 2008)

cryhavok said:


> First round auctions complete



I can't believe u***l & h***7 win none of the first 10.


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## xcel730 (May 31, 2008)

I think h***7 is 3797kenneth. eBay encrypts the member's name. 3797kenneth won 4 or 5 of them. 



cachet said:


> I can't believe u***l & h***7 win none of the first 10.


----------



## CM (May 31, 2008)

greenLED said:


> RTV, maybe? Even if it doesn't stick to the teflon, it'll provide some support to the wires.



Even better. RTV is easier to remove later when K9 LED's come out.


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## mraymer (May 31, 2008)

I still would have preferred to have seen them sold one per person as was originally planned. Can't control that on eBay, so out of the first ten, four went to one person and two went to another individual. Can't blame them however, if you have the funds and want them bad enough, it's fair. With these in such limited supply it would have been more fair in my opinion to sell them some other way that allowed for a limit on the number purchased. Sour grapes aside, congratulations to all of the first batch winners. This light sure does look like a winner if the production issues can be resolved, assembly and obtaining the K2.


----------



## carl (Jun 1, 2008)

Congratulations to the winners! In my opinion, this first batch of lights going to the highest bidders seems like a better system than the usual mad dash "whoever was logged on at the right time when they first came out" system. For those of us who couldn't afford those high bids, we'll just have to wait for the regular units to start rolling off the line and thats fine with me. Now, if those winners could just start posting some pics and reviews for the rest of us.....


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## yaesumofo (Jun 1, 2008)

Maybe the next batch (after the current one) can have staggered end times allowing losers to bid on other lights without risking winning more than one unit????
Yaesumofo


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## yaesumofo (Jun 1, 2008)

Peter Question.
Are there any patents pending on the ARC 6? Have any patents been applied for?
Yaesumofo


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## xcel730 (Jun 1, 2008)

+1 to that Yaesumofo. At least 5 minutes apart. There were a couple of auctions that closed below my upper limit, and I missed them because they were like 10 seconds apart and I was bidding for one (and got sniped at the last second) and couldn't jump on the next one in time. I only set up two snipes because I didn't want to end up winning more than one.

Also, maybe Peter could add the members who already won this batch's Arc 6 to his eBay restricted list so the same member cannot bid again for the upcoming batches. Just a thought. Next week is a different animal ... the starting price already dropped by $25. 

Serial #0000 is really hot right now ... as it should be. 



yaesumofo said:


> Maybe the next batch (after the current one) can have staggered end times allowing losers to bid on other lights without risking winning more than one unit????
> Yaesumofo


----------



## Trashman (Jun 1, 2008)

Wow, #69 went for $150 more than #28! Now, that *IS* crazy! ("certifiably!") Cukoo!


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## kenster (Jun 1, 2008)

cryhavok said:


> The way these auctions are going, these lights are just going to end up in the hands of 2 people with very deep pockets.


 
Yup, I had to dig deep to snag 4 of these lights. 



cryhavoc said:


> ...I guess there are some extremely selfish people on this forum :shrug:


 
Basic common sense fact of life, unfortunately.  But....... 



kenster said:


> ......... Folks, quit looking for "EVIL MOTIVES" .... when they just aint there.


 
I just want 69  and the other three lights........... Not telling yet!  



Trashman said:


> Wow, #69 went for $150 more than #28! Now, that *IS* crazy! ("certifiably!") Cukoo!


 
Well, thank you! :nana: 

Me


----------



## smokelaw1 (Jun 1, 2008)

I wonder how many of those will end up being flipped byu the people who won multiple units. It's hard to imagine they will be easy to sell for a profit, though, as the next batch will almost certainly sell for LESS than the first winners paid....hmmm....


----------



## ibcj (Jun 1, 2008)

smokelaw1 said:


> I wonder how many of those will end up being flipped byu the people who won multiple units. It's hard to imagine they will be easy to sell for a profit, though, as the next batch will almost certainly sell for LESS than the first winners paid....hmmm....



Since I have never seen kenster flip anything for profit, I find it unlikely. His flipping style is more like: buy a light for $600 and sell it for $10. 

And I agree with you, it will be hard to flip something that everyone had a chance to bid on. Probably one factor in the reason these went to ebay first.


----------



## Frenchyled (Jun 1, 2008)

To those who win Ebay auction on more than one ARC6 

I am open to trade one of your ARC6 to one flashlight in my collection.
Just ask and maybe add some bucks if you really want a rare one 

I don't like ebay auction, I don't want to use a snipper, I have no money on my paypal account but I want an Arc6 in my collection, so it is the only action I can do to maybe getting one 

Please help me on this one  Thanks in advance !


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## Thujone (Jun 1, 2008)

kenster said:


> Basic common sense fact of life, unfortunately.  But.......




However fact of the matter is that you are likely to just give away one or two of these gems knowing you. Not exactly what I would call *selfish*..


----------



## cryhavok (Jun 1, 2008)

Ah I didn't know it was the great kenster that was doing all this mystery bidding  Surely not a selfish lad...I retract my comment!


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## Cuso (Jun 1, 2008)

What the Kenster won 4 lights ???!! Knowing him he'll prolly just grab them all and give them away latter in the forums...:laughing:


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## qip (Jun 1, 2008)

what does kenster do for a living where he has all this loose pocket change


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## toby_pra (Jun 1, 2008)

Hey Kenster!

Why you need four of this Arc-LS?????


----------



## Trashman (Jun 1, 2008)

Thujone said:


> However fact of the matter is that you are likely to just give away one or two of these gems knowing you. Not exactly what I would call *selfish*..



Yep, hmmmm...let's see, when is the next big holiday?


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## Trashman (Jun 1, 2008)

qip said:


> what does kenster do for a living where he has all this loose pocket change



I'd guess, he's one of those folks that, when ones asks another about his occupation, the reply is simply, "he's a philanthropist."


----------



## greenLED (Jun 1, 2008)

Congrats, Ken!
 for pics of the family.


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## qip (Jun 1, 2008)

Trashman said:


> I'd guess, he's one of those folks that, when ones asks another about his occupation, the reply is simply, "he's a philanthropist."




well he needs to make a donation to the qip foundation of Nyctophobia


----------



## tricker (Jun 1, 2008)

maybe kenster will just pick the best of the bunch and return the rest for a full refund....which isn't a horrible idea...........or maybe send one over here for testing(better idea)


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## xcel730 (Jun 1, 2008)

Here's the summary of the Arc 6 auction


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## tricker (Jun 1, 2008)

what happens to the arc6 project if peter leaves...as this was the prevailing attitude i got a few months ago from some choice posts......have things changed and relationships been revived?(fingers crossed)


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## smokelaw1 (Jun 2, 2008)

nystrpr said:


> Since I have never seen kenster flip anything for profit, I find it unlikely. His flipping style is more like: buy a light for $600 and sell it for $10.
> 
> And I agree with you, it will be hard to flip something that everyone had a chance to bid on. Probably one factor in the reason these went to ebay first.


 
Just want to point out that Kenster posted AS I WAS POSTING. I NEVER, not even for ONE SECOND thought that Kenster was buying these to flip. If I gave that impression, I apologize to Kenster and the rest of this community that benfits from having him here.


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## CM (Jun 2, 2008)

tricker said:


> what happens to the arc6 project if peter leaves...as this was the prevailing attitude i got a few months ago from some choice posts......have things changed and relationships been revived?(fingers crossed)



https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2496953&postcount=152

Specifically and I quote here:



Gransee said:


> ...As far as making more units beyond the first batch...CIS wants to make more. I want to make more. We have all the parts sans the LED to make more. It would make CIS more money to make more. They told me they want to make more. I've said here repeatidly that we plan to make more. Where then is the disconnect? Do I need to say it differently?


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## Drywolf (Jun 2, 2008)

I am bidding on # 0090 o***w


# 0090


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## kenster (Jun 3, 2008)

greenLED said:


> Congrats, Ken!
> for pics of the family.


 
Hey & Howdy There Partner! :wave:

Pictures??? :thinking: ...... :shrug: ......  ...... :sick2: ...... Well......  Since *YOU :green: *are the one asking...... No thank you! :nana: HEHE!  I`ll snap a shot of the quadruplets when they arrive tomorrow. :thumbsup: Pretty soon some of the family will be heading off to new homes :sigh: but that was the plan.  When and where are they going??? :candle:................. What can I say but ya`ll will know when you know :nana: 

 Later!


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## cryhavok (Jun 3, 2008)

How do you know the lights will arrive tomorrow?


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## greenLED (Jun 3, 2008)

kenster said:


> Hey & Howdy There Partner! :wave:
> 
> Pictures??? :thinking: ...... :shrug: ......  ...... :sick2: ...... Well......  Since *YOU :green: *are the one asking...... No thank you! :nana: HEHE!  I`ll snap a shot of the quadruplets when they arrive tomorrow. :thumbsup: Pretty soon some of the family will be heading off to new homes :sigh: but that was the plan.  When and where are they going??? :candle:................. What can I say but ya`ll will know when you know :nana:
> 
> Later!



 As long as they're not of man-cow or Don's speedo's, I'll be OK with pics of the quadruplets.

I've quit giving departure dates 'cuz the rug keeps getting pulled from under my feet. I'm shooting for end'o June now, but :shrug:... I'll believe I'm really gone when the plane lands back home.


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## kenster (Jun 3, 2008)

cryhavok said:


> How do you know the lights will arrive tomorrow?


 
I added $10 per light for shipping as the Ebay listing stated. Peter then informed me he upped the shipping to one day which made me one very happy flashadude see...  Thanks again Peter! :twothumbs


greenLED said:


> As long as they're not of man-cow or Don's speedo's, I'll be OK with pics of the quadruplets.


 
:huh2: ....... man + cow + speedo + flashlight + camera?!?!? :eeksign: Bad greenLED thoughts!  You funny!


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## iocheretyanny (Jun 3, 2008)

The lights being actioned off all have 2 sleeves. Will all lights in future be sold with 2 sleeves or is this just for the initial batch on Ebay?


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## Gransee (Jun 3, 2008)

Just for the auctions. With retail, you could buy them together, or not. 

peter


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## xcel730 (Jun 3, 2008)

I think it's going to be only one sleeve. Before Peter changed the Arc website. I saw that you have the option of buying the Arc 6 with either sleeves and you could also buy the sleeves seperately (without the light).

Edit: never mind ... peter replied the same time.



iocheretyanny said:


> The lights being actioned off all have 2 sleeves. Will all lights in future be sold with 2 sleeves or is this just for the initial batch on Ebay?


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## iocheretyanny (Jun 3, 2008)

Thanks for the quick answers!

A thought - these auctions are 7 days long, but the price does not move day 2-6..
So why not speed up the next set of auctions and make them only 2 days  ?


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## SaturnNyne (Jun 4, 2008)

iocheretyanny said:


> A thought - these auctions are 7 days long, but the price does not move day 2-6..
> So why not speed up the next set of auctions and make them only 2 days  ?


It's probably because the longer the auctions take the longer Peter has to get more of them ready for the next batch. Since he estimates around 50 will be produced from this initial run, the 30 he's put up so far are probably nearly all he currently has prepared to his satisfaction.


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## Cuso (Jun 4, 2008)

SO , now that we have seen the auctions skyrocket, is there a definite base pricing for the production run? Or is this info still taboo?


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## err0r (Jun 4, 2008)

Cuso said:


> SO , now that we have seen the auctions skyrocket, is there a definite base pricing for the production run? Or is this info still taboo?



Since there are still more batches of auctions both running* and presumably to go, plus the final emitter for full scale production is not yet nailed down I would doubt that the production pricing will be announced for a while yet. 





* There are a further 14 auctions running at the moment.


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## straightblast (Jun 4, 2008)

Gransee said:


> Some people might take the comment about the chinease as a racial slur. Not up to cpf standards IMO.
> 
> 
> btw, I don't understand the consternation about auctions. You bid what you feel comfortable. If it goes higher than that, you try another auction. Try not to get emotionally involved, that will just lead to you spending more than you are comfortable with. I have found a lot of good deals on ebay. I just take my time and have fun. It is fun for me to buy things on ebay. I just bought a bunch of laser stuff this past week.
> ...




There was an article (yesterday, I think) on either Google News, or Yahoo News, about how the shine is wearing off auction sites----and about how the % of Ebay items for sale at a fixed price (as opposed to auction) has increased dramatically.

I don't think it is as much "consternation" as it is growing tired with the game. I have purchased probably 15 or so of your Arc AAA lights. I use them daily, give them as gifts, etc. I like the fact that I can go to your site and buy them, know the price, get the shipping details, and be done with it without drama. If you had only sold them at auction sites, I would not have purchased my first ARC. 

I hope you have great success with your ebay auctions for this new light. No doubt you weighed the pros and cons of doing it this way and felt most comfortable with auctions, as opposed to selling the light in the same way you sell other lights.


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## Gransee (Jun 4, 2008)

Oh yes. Definately weighed the pros and cons and discussed it in detail.

peter


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## yaesumofo (Jun 4, 2008)

I am also sure the Pros were weighed.
The question was not "how can we best serve our loyal customers?" Nope that was NOT the question. The question was "How can we make the MOST money from what may be a limited resource?". The natural answer was E-Bay. This is a normal business type question. The answer unfortunately is very short sighted.
The other advantage to eBay is the ability to manipulate the auction price if necessary. A practice well known on eBay.
Yes the pro's were weighed and the ability to make more money outweighed the need to support those who have been supporting.
Go figure. BTW. I am not bitter just disappointed.
Yaesumofo




Gransee said:


> Oh yes. Definitely weighed the pros and cons and discussed it in detail.
> 
> peter


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## yaesumofo (Jun 4, 2008)

Peter one question.
Are the lights on auction BETA flashlights? Or are they regular production flashlights?
Is the project still in beta?
Yaesumofo


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## iocheretyanny (Jun 4, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> It's probably because the longer the auctions take the longer Peter has to get more of them ready for the next batch. Since he estimates around 50 will be produced from this initial run, the 30 he's put up so far are probably nearly all he currently has prepared to his satisfaction.



I thougth about 50 samples were already produced?


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## SaturnNyne (Jun 4, 2008)

iocheretyanny said:


> I thougth about 50 samples were already produced?


He likely does have about 50 by now. Here's his post on the subject on May 31, which was when the current batch of 14 auctions went up:


Gransee said:


> I am still estimating about 50 lights total...I have 45 units assembled but I am still testing them to make sure they all hit their targets.


So I guess he does already have enough for another round of similar size.


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## Cuso (Jun 5, 2008)

Serial # 0000 is at $710 [email protected]!%!


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## olrac (Jun 5, 2008)

Cuso said:


> Serial # 0000 is at $710 [email protected]!%!



Yeah, I don't know if a Number 0000 really is as significant being that it actually isn't the first one made, just the first head numbered, but hey if it floats someone's boat what the hey go for it.


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## xcel730 (Jun 6, 2008)

wow, someone really want that serial number. At this point, I don't even care what number I get, I just want one.


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## Burgess (Jun 6, 2008)

_


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## tricker (Jun 6, 2008)

average at 303 dollars

$272 without S#000


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## paulr (Jun 7, 2008)

I thought they were being made concurrently with running the auctions. That means of these 50, the lowest numbered ones are the ones that will be made last.


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## Gransee (Jun 7, 2008)

Usually, I assemble and test the units that we will be auctioned the week of the auction. That is why last week there were only 14 units. Yes, that also means #0000 was made by me last week. I remember testing it. Did well in the tests. Also, I am not in a big hurry to make all the units at once. It is painstaking work and I have several other projects I am working on during the week. 

The new epoxy is working well and I haven't damaged any more LEDs. I am running out of LEDs though. I am still estimating about 50 units total.

peter


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## iconoclast (Jun 7, 2008)

Gransee said:


> Also, I am not in a big hurry to make all the units at once. It is painstaking work and I have several other projects I am working on during the week.



Oh? Anything you can tell us about? 
Preferably in a new thread that has the words "introducing" or "now available" in the title?


(I figure it can't hurt to ask)


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## Gransee (Jun 7, 2008)

Oh no, nothing like that. Not all projects are new flashlights. For example, finding alternate vendors for anodizing the Arc-AAA is a project. 

peter


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jun 7, 2008)

Number 86 is mine! Ha ha, someone tried to snipe me, but I bid up with 2 seconds left. I normally wouldnt have paid $551 for this light, but I hear the tint is warm..... :wave:

To snipers: Try to play, but sometimes you lose!!!! :nana:


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## olrac (Jun 7, 2008)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Number 86 is mine! Ha ha, someone tried to snipe me, but I bid up with 2 seconds left. I normally wouldnt have paid $551 for this light, but I hear the tint is warm..... :wave:
> 
> To snipers: Try to play, but sometimes you lose!!!! :nana:



maybe they just tried to make you pay a premium


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jun 7, 2008)

Conspiracy theory... I doubt it.


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## xcel730 (Jun 7, 2008)

Here's how all the Arc6 Auction has been going. I missed this week's auction for helping my friend move. Oh well, have to try again another day.


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## cryhavok (Jun 7, 2008)

Holy crap! I haven't been at the computer all day, so I didn't know how the auctions went. I feel a lot better about paying a bit over $400 last week with how this week's auctions ended


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## Gimpy00Wang (Jun 7, 2008)

I'm glad I was outbid at $325. I doubt I'll own one of these babies.

- Chris


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## Gransee (Jun 8, 2008)

I just got a message from a bidder that they got a email claiming to be from us saying I couldn't access my paypal account and to send a moneygram to spain. This is a completely bogus. The paypal account is [email protected] and we are located in the state of Arizona. Just use the ebay checkout system and it automatically links to the correct paypal account. 

peter


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## qip (Jun 8, 2008)

is that like a $9K profit right there  i need to build some custom lights


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## Burgess (Jun 8, 2008)

I hardly think it is *all profit*.


_


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jun 8, 2008)

Peter, what kind of FedEx service will be used to ship these? Also, is a signature required?

Thanks, I'm really looking foward to the light, all BS aside.


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## sbebenelli (Jun 8, 2008)

qip said:


> is that like a $9K profit right there  i need to build some custom lights



Because a product sells for $500 doesn't at all mean it's all profit. :shakehead

This stands true for anything.


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## tricker (Jun 8, 2008)

sbebenelli said:


> Because a product sells for $500 doesn't at all mean it's all profit. :shakehead
> 
> This stands true for anything.



at 500$ a pack of ramen is all profit


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## qip (Jun 8, 2008)

i didnt say all profit ...im just speculating , but *11*k sold in 24 lights, surely 7-9k profit isnt far off 

24 leds = $? 
24 circuits $?
24 bodies $?


i have no idea what the cost is but for fun sake , 24 k2 flip leds may have been $8 each considering photonfan was selling 10 for $8 ..im not saying he bought the leds from him just using as a base price..thats $192 

circuits ..ive seen circuits from $3 - $50 but since this is quality i will go $50x24=$1200

24 bodies i have no idea?


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## Daniel_sk (Jun 8, 2008)

You have to count in the research cost, labour, machines, wages, taxes and lot other things that make up the final price. The price of the material is only a part of the final cost.


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## Gransee (Jun 8, 2008)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Peter, what kind of FedEx service will be used to ship these? Also, is a signature required?
> 
> Thanks, I'm really looking foward to the light, all BS aside.



Fedex express saver is being used. This includes insurance and tracking number. Signature is normally required but if you send Maria a note, she can mark the package as not requiring a signature.

peter


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## Gransee (Jun 8, 2008)

Daniel_sk said:


> You have to count in the research cost, labour, machines, wages, taxes and lot other things that make up the final price. The price of the material is only a part of the final cost.



Daniel is right. People have different ideas of what "profit" really means. That's why the lottery does as well as it does  and 90% of all businesses fail. Real profit is that after everything is accounted for, you have more money than when you started. This is net profit versus gross profit. In the grocery business net it is about 5%. In manufacturing, about 10-15%, retail is about 5-10% (take keystone and subtract your overhead, shrinkage, etc). 

One of the wonderful things about ignorance of what real profit is: it encourages people to get in business who otherwise wouldn't want to take the time. About 10% actually survive the process and thanks to this brutal "natural selection" we have all kinds of products to choose from. 

Here's a shocker for some: Everyone who pays $700 (etc) for an Arc6 today is getting it at a discount. They receive a new light without having to pay the full price for what it really costs. This is collective buying power and wealth redistribution at work. Businesses finance (take a loss) early adopters with the hope that regular adopters will pay them back later. 

Yes, usually it is the people who pay the lower price that really pay for the capital investment.

That's why it is so important to get beyond the pre-production and into regular production.


The pre-production Arc6 is rare primarily because the excellent K2TF LED is very rare. Do you know anybody who can sell you one? Do you know anybody who has one? A few people have them (slightly less than the number who claim to have one). That the definition of rare. Some people like rare things. Other people don't. If you don't want something that is rare, wait for the Arc6 to become more common. 

So we both are motivated to make the Arc6 more plentiful. You because you want it at a lower price (not a more fair price, it is already at a fair price according to the law of supply and demand) and us because we want to make a real profit. Someday. 

So yes, the auctions are encouraging but we have a lot of work to do going forward. 

And I hope some of our future competitors also think the lottery is a excellent investment. 

Both the manufacturer and the customer are people who have a passion for a particular product. The difference between them is how much they are willing to invest in that passion. 

peter


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## Cyclops942 (Jun 8, 2008)

qip said:


> i didnt say all profit ...im just speculating , but *11*k sold in 24 lights, surely 7-9k profit isnt far off
> 
> 24 leds = $?
> 24 circuits $?
> ...



I know there are more costs than what I list below, but, for starters, you're leaving out the cost for:
all the other LEDs that were bought for testing purposes before this one was chosen,
all the other body designs that were drawn, manufactured, tested, and discarded,
all the other [reflector, lens, circuit, switch, software,...] designs that were drawn, manufactured, tested, and discarded,
all the research that was done before even deciding to begin the project of making this light, as well as the research that continued during the project,
all the sub-standard parts and lost potential profit involved in the search for acceptable subcontractors
all the marketing that has been done so far (you may think there's been none, but you'd be wrong; marketing can take many forms)
the overhead (salary/wages, benefits, physical plant costs, etc.) for all the employees/contractors assigned to this project while all the delays were occurring
...
The list goes on and on, it really does. 

I would say that your guess of $7 - $9K profit is *way, way* off. But then, I'm "just speculating."

[Edit] It looks like Peter finished his post before I finished mine. I stand by what I say above.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jun 8, 2008)

Gransee said:


> Fedex express saver is being used. This includes insurance and tracking number. Signature is normally required but if you send Maria a note, she can mark the package as not requiring a signature.
> 
> peter



Tell me how to go about doing that and I will!  Who's Maria? Thanks.


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## olrac (Jun 8, 2008)

I would imagine even with these auctions the company must still be thousands of dollars in the red at this point, it takes some time to recoup the ROI.


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## Gransee (Jun 8, 2008)

Maria is the nice lady to who takes care of customer service, shipping, etc for Arc products. Her email is [email protected]

Not to be confused with Merri (my wife) who used to do Maria's job and trained her. 

peter


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## cryhavok (Jun 8, 2008)

Fedex


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jun 8, 2008)

Gransee said:


> Maria is the nice lady to who takes care of customer service, shipping, etc for Arc products. Her email is [email protected]
> 
> Not to be confused with Merri (my wife) who used to do Maria's job and trained her.
> 
> peter



Thanks Gransee. I'll EM her now 

Edit: EM sent! :twothumbs


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## toby_pra (Jun 10, 2008)

Maria?

Uhhhhh veeerrrrryyyyy kind!  :kiss:


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## xcel730 (Jun 10, 2008)

Regarding profits ....

Raw material is actually negligible cost. How much does it really cost for the LED, driver, reflector, lens, body, etc? I don't know, but I would be surprised if it's even $100 if purchased in bulk. I'm not in the business, so I could be way off.

However, we have to factor in R&D. It's like drug companies ... some of the drugs/medication cost like $2.00 per pill, yet the raw material cost is pennies. Another example is custom knifemaker's cost for premium steel and handles is probably about $50 or less, but charges $500+. We're paying $450+ extra for their skills, their devotion to learn the art to turn a useless steel into functional and sometimes artistic tool, their equipment rental, and ... they do have to make money to survive.

P.S. Did you know that movie theater's primary revenue is from soda and popcorns and not the movies themselves?


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jun 10, 2008)

Any idea of when Saturday's (6/8) auction lights will ship? I havent got an EM or anything yet. 

Thanks.


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## Gransee (Jun 10, 2008)

Well I think everyone got their lights from the first 10 auctions and their questions answered about those auctions. That's all this thread was for. 

As far as ongoing auctions, Greta does not want that discussion to take place here. I don't agree with the policy but I am required to help moderate, so guys, take the discussion somewhere else. 

Here's her quote from this post:

_"Mass auctions of production products is not fine. 

Please wrap up this auction of these 10 lights and then that's it. No more. If you would like to SELL these lights on CPF, please purchase a Manufacturer's subscription at the MarketPlace and sell them in the Manufacturer's Corner. "_

I purchased a MFG's subscription to add to my existing, "authorized mfg status". When that goes through, I might post a link to the other auctions thread there. 

thread locked.

peter


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