# Night hikers, what's your current setup?



## InTheDark (Dec 8, 2009)

Since the days have been getting shorter, I find myself hiking in the dark more often. There's a lot of good information regarding hiking at night, but usually relates to setting up camp in the dark or using a headlamp as a backup in case you don't make it out by sunset. But I'd like to specifically focus on night hiking, meaning those starting out when it's already dark, with the specific purpose of hiking in the dark. I'm curious to know what others people are using.

My current night hiking setup is a Nuwai 2x123 headlamp paired with a RiverRock 2x123 headlamp. Of course I also have quite a few flashlights in the backpack as a backup. So far I like the combination of a high power light with throw (RR) and a multi level light with long run times. Last month I just completed a midnight hike of Halfdome using just the Nuwai on low power (the batteries were already dead and couldn't turn it on high), but it was a full moon so I really didn't really need the headlamp much. I estimate I was able to complete 80% of it without a headlamp at all, most of it's use was finding the well marked trail when it got into the trees.

Over the last couple months I've been doing some hikes in the local mountains and spend a lot of it in the dark. But with no moonlight and in a canyon, both headlamps get a lot more use. As most hikers know a headlamp doesn't work too well strapped on your head, I found it a lot more useful to strap the Nuwai to the buckle of my waistbelt, and use the RR on my head just for trailfinding. I actually made a short strap out of 1" webbing that clips in between the hip belt buckes of my backpack so I can mount the headlamp on it. The low beam angle really helps show the shadows, but in reality the sheer brightness of the RR headlamp was a lot more useful, especially when moving fast over rocky ground. 

Right now I'm looking for another headlamp to replace the Nuwai and one I can use as a primary headlamp. The 1 watt side emitter is showing its age, but I really like the form factor and setup. The fact that I still have another 5-7 hours of light on low after the high power setting runs out is really nice. So what I'm looking for is another light that takes 123's, has multi-levels with a low power runtime of 12+ hours, a high output at least equal to the river rocks 136 lumens, and most importantly I don't like a separate battery pack, so that rules out many of the high end headlamps. I would prefer something with a bit of throw, a flood pattern just doesn't cut it when you're moving quickly. But I also don't like a well defined hotspot because it tends to cause tunnel vision on the trail, it does need some sidespill. Anyone have suggestions?


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## Hooked on Fenix (Dec 8, 2009)

There aren't that many 123A headlights. Fewer have a good balance of spot and flood light (Zebralights are total flood lights, PT Apex Pro-maybe). I can't think of one that satisfies all your requirements, especially the no rear battery pack one that disqualifies the Princeton Tec Apex Pro. Drop the 123A requirement and there may be more options, but few if any as bright and as lightweight as your River Rock headlight (which has no heatsinking or waterproofing). I've found that headlights don't have to be super bright. 20 lumens is enough to walk down a trail safely. 50 lumens is enough to see midrange (enough for running). Any brighter, and you're spotting stuff at a distance or trailfinding, which usually only requires short term use.

I use a headlight for most of the time, and carry a bright flashlight when I need more throw. For a headlight, the Princeton Tec EOS is still what I use, and I haven't found anything better. It is waterproof, regulated (running direct drive when the batteries run low), has a good spread of brightness settings (5, 20, and 50 lumens), runs much longer than overnight on low, and has a good balance of spot and flood light. With this light, I carry a thrower handheld flashlight. Flashlights don't attract bugs to your face, and their tubular metal bodies make lighter heatsinks than are required for a headlight. I have a lot of lights for this purpose that get rotated into use depending on the trail and weather conditions. Here are some of them: Solarforce L2 with Thrunite Cree XP-G drop-in (300 lumens), Fenix TK11 R2 (low-60/high-240 lumens), Inova XO (100+ lumens), Inova T1 (100 lumens), Fenix P3D Q5 (200 lumens), Fenix L2D/P2D/L1D (180/180/120 lumens-three body tubes, one head), Xtar P4 18650 light (150 lumens), Fenix L1T version 2.0 (98 lumens).


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## hubbytuby (Dec 8, 2009)

This is the perfect set up ready? D10 With Headband. Its light, simplicity of AA, amazing combo of spot to flood. I have that set up and love it!


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## Flashlightboy (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm currently using the SF Minimus. Actually, it's the Saint with the battery pack removed which seems to be a better set up than the Saint itself.

I suppose that if I were doing a hike that started at 2 AM I'd use the Saint but for camping and hikes that won't get me back until 2-3 hours after dark I'm using the Minimus set up. 

Regardless, the Minimus seems to nicely satisfy most of your requirements.


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## paulr (Dec 9, 2009)

What about the Zebralight H30?


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## yowzer (Dec 9, 2009)

I use a Mammut TXlite or a Black Diamond Icon for night hikes. Don't like the blueish 5mm LEDs on the Icon, but it's Cree is nice. The Mammut's the best-designed 3AAA direct drive headlamp I've used, even if it only has an old Luxeon LED. Still bright enough, and a fresh set of batteries will last all night.

Probably going to replace them both with a Surefire Saint soon, though.


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## Huz (Dec 9, 2009)

I am considering minimus for night hiking/running - seems to meet all your req.


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## smokelaw1 (Dec 9, 2009)

Huz said:


> I am considering minimus for night hiking/running - seems to meet all your req.


 
Except the fact that it is all flood. I love mine, but you really can't say it has any throw.


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## yellow (Dec 9, 2009)

> As most hikers know a headlamp doesn't work too well strapped on your head,


:thinking: they do? :thinking:
and the lights dont work well there?
:thinking: :thinking:


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## Huz (Dec 9, 2009)

Another option is Streamlight Argo HP. See this thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/172729


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## Hooked on Fenix (Dec 9, 2009)

The Fenix HL20 looks promising. That might be a good replacement headlight. It takes 1AA though, not 2 123As. It's waterproof to 1 meter for 30 minutes. It's settings are: low-4 lumens (56 hours), medium-48 lumens (5.5 hours), high-105 lumens (1.8 hours), SOS (15 hours). Uses a Cree XP-E l.e.d. which tends to have great throw and no gaps in the beam (we'll see if this is true with this light, hopefully soon). It's under 3 ounces with battery. This information was from another thread that just started today. Sounds like a good replacement for my Princeton Tec EOS headlight as well as the O.P. for this thread. I want one.


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## uplite (Dec 9, 2009)

InTheDark said:


> Last month I just completed a midnight hike of Halfdome using just the Nuwai on low power (the batteries were already dead and couldn't turn it on high), but it was a full moon so I really didn't really need the headlamp much.


Awesome night hike. :thumbsup: If you want another beautiful one with a shift of perspective...hike up North Dome at night, full moon, late spring, while the high country is still blanketed in snow. The moon rises over halfdome, and the whole world is lit up by the snow bounce. It's like watching a sunrise with a cool-white tint... 

As for flashlights...IMO the ideal night-hiking setup is a floody headlamp to light your immediate surroundings and foot placement, and a throwy handheld to trailfind and spot at a distance.

This past summer I started using a Zebralight H501w headlamp plus an original Quark (XPE not XPG) in my pocket/hand. Both with neutral white LEDs. Very happy with this setup. The Zebralight beats the stuffing out of my old petzl headlamps that were barely adequate for hiking on a good trail. The original (XPE) Quark is a good thrower for trailfinding 50-100 yards out. The new XPG Quarks are not as good for this unless you get the "Turbo" head.

If you do trail _running_ at night, I would recommend a throwy headlamp like the EOS. But for hiking, flood headlamp + pocket thrower works great.

-Jeff


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## InTheDark (Dec 9, 2009)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> There aren't that many 123A headlights. Fewer have a good balance of spot and flood light (Zebralights are total flood lights, PT Apex Pro-maybe). I can't think of one that satisfies all your requirements, especially the no rear battery pack one that disqualifies the Princeton Tec Apex Pro. Drop the 123A requirement and there may be more options, but few if any as bright and as lightweight as your River Rock headlight (which has no heatsinking or waterproofing). I've found that headlights don't have to be super bright. 20 lumens is enough to walk down a trail safely. 50 lumens is enough to see midrange (enough for running). Any brighter, and you're spotting stuff at a distance or trailfinding, which usually only requires short term use.
> 
> I use a headlight for most of the time, and carry a bright flashlight when I need more throw. For a headlight, the Princeton Tec EOS is still what I use, and I haven't found anything better. It is waterproof, regulated (running direct drive when the batteries run low), has a good spread of brightness settings (5, 20, and 50 lumens), runs much longer than overnight on low, and has a good balance of spot and flood light. With this light, I carry a thrower handheld flashlight. Flashlights don't attract bugs to your face, and their tubular metal bodies make lighter heatsinks than are required for a headlight. I have a lot of lights for this purpose that get rotated into use depending on the trail and weather conditions. Here are some of them: Solarforce L2 with Thrunite Cree XP-G drop-in (300 lumens), Fenix TK11 R2 (low-60/high-240 lumens), Inova XO (100+ lumens), Inova T1 (100 lumens), Fenix P3D Q5 (200 lumens), Fenix L2D/P2D/L1D (180/180/120 lumens-three body tubes, one head), Xtar P4 18650 light (150 lumens), Fenix L1T version 2.0 (98 lumens).



I have noticed the lack of 123 headlamps on the market. The main reason I've decided to go with the 2x123 configuration is because I've somewhat standardized all my equipment to that battery type and have rechargable 123's. My one emergency light takes 1x123, and both my headlamps are 123, so I was hoping to try and keep it common. I like it because of the long shelf life, so I dont' always have to check the batteries in my emergency kit. They've also got better runtimes in cold weather and are light, but those really aren't my main concern. I have thought of going back to AA's since that opens up a lot more options, so I guess I'm not 100% set on the lithiums just yet. The reason I don't want a separate battery pack is because I would like the mount the light on my hipbelt, and having everything integrated all in one unit would be less hassle.

I (sometimes) carry one of the DX (advertixed) 900 lumen lights, which probably puts out closer to 300-400 lumens, for trail finding, but I really only use it to impress people at night. I almost always use hiking poles, so I don't like having anything in my hands while moving, which is why I like having the high power spot on my head where I can just reach up and turn it on as needed. 



Flashlightboy said:


> I'm currently using the SF Minimus. Actually, it's the Saint with the battery pack removed which seems to be a better set up than the Saint itself.
> 
> I suppose that if I were doing a hike that started at 2 AM I'd use the Saint but for camping and hikes that won't get me back until 2-3 hours after dark I'm using the Minimus set up.
> 
> Regardless, the Minimus seems to nicely satisfy most of your requirements.



I've been looking at the Saint/Minimus combo since it first came out, it's probably number one on my list of potential headlamps. However, I haven't seen it in person yet, so I've been waiting to find one locally before I drop the money for it. If the high setting is bright enough for trail finding, I think I might consider it. I was thinking I could just use the battery pack as a spare holder, and I like the dual battery combo.




paulr said:


> What about the Zebralight H30?



I admit I haven't tried the Zebralights, but I have tried removing the reflectors on some other lights to simulate a flood beam pattern. While those would be great camping, for hiking the flood beam just doesn't have enough throw to make me feel comfortable on the trail. Since most of the time I need to see in front of me for a distance, a flood beam waste too much light in a direction where I'm not looking. A really bright flood would be a great solution, but then I'd still want most of the light concentrated torwards the front.


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## uplite (Dec 9, 2009)

InTheDark said:


> I admit I haven't tried the Zebralights, but I have tried removing the reflectors on some other lights to simulate a flood beam pattern. While those would be great camping, for hiking the flood beam just doesn't have enough throw to make me feel comfortable on the trail. Since most of the time I need to see in front of me for a distance, a flood beam waste too much light in a direction where I'm not looking. A really bright flood would be a great solution, but then I'd still want most of the light concentrated torwards the front.


Keep in mind, a naked LED has a huge flood angle, but the Zebralights have a custom lens to collimate the flood angle.

H501 and H50 have an 80-degree flood with up to 96 lumens OTF. That's plenty of light for hiking, scrambling, or even bushwhacking your own trail. On a well-worn trail, medium modes are fine.

The big issue with night hike lighting is foot-placement/proximity vs. trailfinding/distance usage. Flood is better for the former; throw is better for the latter.

I don't use hiking poles though...so it is easy to pull a thrower out of my pocket occasionally when I want to see farther. If you have hiking poles in both hands, you have to decide. Either pick one light...flood or thrower...or hold the poles in one hand for a few seconds when you want to see farther...

-Jeff


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## Linger (Dec 9, 2009)

yellow said:


> :thinking: they do? :thinking:
> and the lights dont work well there?
> :thinking: :thinking:


When the light source is on the same axis as your eyes, it casts no shadows. This makes the world appear flatter and with-out the contrast information your ability to intuit if a root is flat on the ground or sticking up is dampened. Hikers with headlights begin tripping over things, slipping, after a few hours you feel like you're in a fishbowl and can't see any distance.
Zebralights are great because they clip-on anywhere.
I've had some relief strapping a light to the side of my head, but I prefer hand torch for all but the most serious bushwhacking.


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## uplite (Dec 9, 2009)

Linger said:


> When the light source is on the same axis as your eyes, it casts no shadows. This makes the world appear flatter and with-out the contrast information your ability to intuit if a root is flat on the ground or sticking up is dampened. Hikers with headlights begin tripping over things, slipping, after a few hours you feel like you're in a fishbowl and can't see any distance.


That sounds a little bit extreme. 

I think an off-axis beam gives you a few more visual cues, but it doesn't make a huge difference. I also hike under clouds, or trees, or noontime sun, without shadows, without tripping on the roots & rocks.

IMO the main reason to clip a Zebralight to the packstrap instead of headstrap is to be more _social_. It lets you talk to your fellow hikers without blasting them in the face.  :thumbsup:

-Jeff


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## InTheDark (Dec 10, 2009)

uplite said:


> Awesome night hike. :thumbsup: If you want another beautiful one with a shift of perspective...hike up North Dome at night, full moon, late spring, while the high country is still blanketed in snow. The moon rises over halfdome, and the whole world is lit up by the snow bounce. It's like watching a sunrise with a cool-white tint...
> 
> As for flashlights...IMO the ideal night-hiking setup is a floody headlamp to light your immediate surroundings and foot placement, and a throwy handheld to trailfind and spot at a distance.
> 
> ...



It's one of my favorite hikes, and the full moon coincided with my trip, it was perfect timing. I had been up there many times but wanted a change, doing it at night turns it into a whole different hike. I'm thinking of doing Clouds rest or Tenaya canyon the next time I'm up there, and I've been contemplating this other "unmaintained" trail for a while. 

I don't do any trail running, but if it's cold enough and I'm running late, I do move rather quickly. The brighter the headlamp, the faster I can move. 




uplite said:


> Keep in mind, a naked LED has a huge flood angle, but the Zebralights have a custom lens to collimate the flood angle.
> 
> H501 and H50 have an 80-degree flood with up to 96 lumens OTF. That's plenty of light for hiking, scrambling, or even bushwhacking your own trail. On a well-worn trail, medium modes are fine.
> 
> ...



Exactly, you really need both types of beam while night hiking, and it doesn't seem like 1 light will be able to cover it all. I may try a zebra light on the hipbelt, it sounds like the beam might not be as bad as I imagined. I thought they were pure flood, I didn't know the newer ones had an optic in them. The zebra light and a surefire saint looks like they'd complement each other nicely. As I mentioned, I do sometimes carry a real thrower in case I need to do some long distance trail spotting, but most of the time use the RR on my head only as a quick spotter. I can reach up and turn it on to take a quick look around, then turn it off without releasing my hiking poles. 



uplite said:


> That sounds a little bit extreme.
> 
> I think an off-axis beam gives you a few more visual cues, but it doesn't make a huge difference. I also hike under clouds, or trees, or noontime sun, without shadows, without tripping on the roots & rocks.
> 
> ...



The off axis beam helps quite a bit if the level of lighting is low, at least for me. If you have enough lumens, the problem is minimized, but I haven't found any flashlight that can even come close to the brightness of the sun, even on a cloudy or overcast day . The worst time seems to be around dusk in the trees, when it's just dark enough that you can't really see the ground, but not dark enough to pull out the headlamp.

There are other reason I don't like having the light on my head. When it's warm, the bugs swarm torwards the light, which feels like you're constantly walking through a cloud of bugs. When it's cold, the fog from your breath gets illuminated by the light so it feels like driving in the fog with high beams on. For the most part, headlamps on the head work fine, but there are times when an alternative placement works better


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## InTheDark (Dec 10, 2009)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> The Fenix HL20 looks promising. That might be a good replacement headlight. It takes 1AA though, not 2 123As. It's waterproof to 1 meter for 30 minutes. It's settings are: low-4 lumens (56 hours), medium-48 lumens (5.5 hours), high-105 lumens (1.8 hours), SOS (15 hours). Uses a Cree XP-E l.e.d. which tends to have great throw and no gaps in the beam (we'll see if this is true with this light, hopefully soon). It's under 3 ounces with battery. This information was from another thread that just started today. Sounds like a good replacement for my Princeton Tec EOS headlight as well as the O.P. for this thread. I want one.



I might reconsider the AA option after seeing some of the new lights that are available. I used to have an old Fenix T1? (1AA model) with the optional 123 battery pack, but unfortuately it was misplaced a while ago. I guess the only real reason I was stuck on 123's was because my other lights were already standardized on it, and I have a bunch of 123's. But who knows, maybe Santa will get me a completely new lighting setup this year.


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## Linger (Dec 10, 2009)

re: extreme - He asked a question, how else to describe the flat world of dark forests with headlights? I suspect part of you appreciates the description.



uplite said:


> IMO the main reason to clip a Zebralight to the packstrap instead of headstrap is to be more _social_. It lets you talk to your fellow hikers without blasting them in the face.  :thumbsup:



That's an excellent point. Every single time I lend a headlamp I get zapped, and I promise I'll never do it again. Means I should rig a clip light for lending.


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## auroreboreale (Dec 17, 2009)

Well, I am sure this will sound low-tech, but for walking in the 19-hour long nights of Canada's far North West, I use a Petzl Tactikka, with the red filter down, on the lowest setting, so that my night vision stays intact. I run that on white winkie mode when walking on roads around town, with a red bike 2AAA winkie on the back of the head strap, and lots of Scotchlite reflective tape...


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## saabgoblin (Dec 17, 2009)

Still using a 1st generation Princeton Tec Eos Tactical/25 Lumen model with a Lumapower Lm33 for more flood and throw. Have recently used a Jetbeam Jet 1 Pro on NIMH AA's and I would bring my E1b if I had the regulation switch so it would fit nicely in the holster that came with the LM33 becvause it hangs nicely on my load lifter straps on my backpack.

Looking to upgrade the Eos by buying the new Rebel warmer and broader beam bike version for double duty but I really want the Tactical for it's ability to turn on in low mode first and the option of having colored filter choices are a nice touch if needed. Have thought abvout the new 90 Lumen Corona because for some reason I am not too interested in the Apex, go figure. Anyway having two light sources is the best way to go to head off any potential failures or losses.

Personally, I like Princeton Tec for their ability to utilize Alkaline, NIMH, and Lithium on certain models.


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## Woods Walker (Dec 17, 2009)

I mostly use the PT 4-mode EOSr for a headlamp. Also use a flashlight for a backup or more throw if needed.


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## Ian2381 (Apr 4, 2010)

My Last setup is a MiNi AA with a flashlight headband and a Solarforce L2m modded to take AA/14500.

Will change this to Headlight Zoomable R2 and a Romisen RC-29 Neutral and have the headband and MiNi AA as backup. will also bring the L2m Now with a aspheric lens.

Can't wait to try my new setup


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## carrot (Apr 4, 2010)

Surefire Saint paired with whatever flashlight I'm in the mood for at the moment, whatever has a momentary button.


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## Stevie (May 6, 2010)

I use an Olight T10 for walking at night, on the 3rd brightness setting it throws a nice beam about 60 metres which, according to Olight will last 8 hours on a fresh CR123 primary. If I was walking for longer I could easily drop it down a level or two, or just take a spare battery. I also have the white Fenix diffuser so I can hang the light up in the tent.

For mapchecks, setting up a tent etc , on my head sits a Petzl E-Lite. It's so small I don't even notice it. The red LED is good for reading the map without blinding myself. Also as it's un-regulated there is a long gradual drop off of output so that if I were to be a dumbass and have the Olight go out on me without a spare battery, at least I have a long running back up in the E-Lite.

I like this package because I hike as light as possible and these two are tiny but get the job done.


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## gsxer (May 6, 2010)

I just took my first night hike a few days ago and took my new Jetbeam RRT-0 with me. Also I had a Olight T25 and a few spare batteries and a little Fenix E01 in my pocket that I can use to change the batteries in the dark. All this for a mile walk! One thing I notice is the Jetbeam running 123A's sure does get warm while the Olight stays cool. I did a few comparisons and the jetbeam and Olight are dead even in flood and throw to me while turn on Hi. I have a MXDL on the way as soon as it gets here it will be another walk!


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