# Someone ever tried a 50W bulb in a MiniMag?



## tuelleric (Dec 6, 2009)

Hello dear CPF-Members,

please don't laugh at my newbie question, but I wonder if someone ever tried to put a 50W halogen bulb into a MiniMag. Or at least 35W or 20W?

Actually it should work quite well (technically, don't know about heat issues). Could look like this then:






















What do you think? I know that it's not really a rational mod, but one of the brighter ones definitely.

Regards from Germany
Till


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## mikra (Dec 6, 2009)

I think a 50w powersource is the main problem in this size.


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## Scott_T (Dec 6, 2009)

2 AAs aint going to cut it.


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## ltiu (Dec 6, 2009)

Put a 6v 10W bi-pin buld with two of these:

http://www.batteryspace.com/li-ion14500cylindricalrechargeablecell37v750mahaasize277wh-ullisted.aspx


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## Morelite (Dec 6, 2009)

3 IMR 16340 cells.


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## tuelleric (Dec 6, 2009)

Yes, I was thinking of two 14500 Li-Ions and a 6V bi-pin bulb. I just saw that there are none with 50W, what might be too much anyway. But if you drive a 35W bulb with 7.4V you already ge 55W. A 20W bulb would have 30W then.

Should be working, right?

Till


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## Illum (Dec 6, 2009)

tuelleric said:


> Yes, I was thinking of two 14500 Li-Ions and a 6V bi-pin bulb. I just saw that there are none with 50W, what might be too much anyway. But if you drive a 35W bulb with 7.4V you already ge 55W. A 20W bulb would have 30W then.
> 
> Should be working, right?
> 
> Till



LiCoO2 Li-ions are good only for a little over 2C of current draw, even that is slightly pushing it. 
14500s have 750mah capacity, 2C = 1.5A at a peak current of 4.2V, expected to droop to 4V at 1.5A. 2x14500s will give you 12W of power for around 20 minutes. 

12W will not light up a 50W lamp, this is neither realistic nor practical. 

7.4V at 35W is over 4 amps, only LiCoO2 I can think of capable of _happily _lending 4 amps would be the 16850 sized cells

Even if you do manage to fit a lamp this size in, how are you going to hold it?


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## moviles (Dec 6, 2009)

im looking too for bulbs with low voltage and high power but no way to find


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## tuelleric (Dec 6, 2009)

Illum said:


> Even if you do manage to fit a lamp this size in, how are you going to hold it?



Hmm, maybe with gloves 

But thanks for the information that Li-Ions can only handle 2 times their capacity. I dind't know that. So the only chance would be indeed a 10W bulb, I guess.

Till


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## ltiu (Dec 6, 2009)

tuelleric said:


> Hmm, maybe with gloves
> 
> But thanks for the information that Li-Ions can only handle 2 times their capacity. I dind't know that. So the only chance would be indeed a 10W bulb, I guess.
> 
> Till



10w 6v bi-pin bulbs are fairly common.

Should be a great little light.

Please post pictures when you are done. Not just pics of the light sitting on a table doing nothing but the light in action as well.


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## ltiu (Dec 6, 2009)

You could try this one, if available where you are:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=166831-75774-LBPQ15T3-6&lpage=none

Slightly better wattage, should be brighter.


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## moviles (Dec 6, 2009)

with 6v this bulb its more powerfull
http://www.bulbconnection.com/ViewItem/bcrw/itmid/1479/oc/5761/item.html

but only 30w and 765 lumens

for small flaslights with high lumens/size ratio I prefer the led tecnology because we have leds with only 3.6vf (only need one battery)and more than 30w (sst-90)


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## jamie.91 (Dec 6, 2009)

i think were on to something here lol

jamie


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## mvyrmnd (Dec 6, 2009)

This would be fantastically insane, and I'd love to do it to my MiniMag.

If you succeed, show us how!


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## moviles (Dec 6, 2009)

mvyrmnd said:


> This would be fantastically insane, and I'd love to do it to my MiniMag.
> 
> If you succeed, show us how!



no way because we need 4-5 amp 14500 imr batteries and that dont exist in the world 

I want 14500 imr batteries!!!!!! :devil:


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## fivemega (Dec 6, 2009)

*Problems are to find:
1- Battery that is capable of 7 Amps at 7.2 volts.
2- 50 Watt bulb which can run efficiently at 7.2 volt.
3- High temperature socket to hold the bulb.
4- Aluminum reflector with such a big opening.
5- High temperature glass lens.


1.. Most 14500 batteries are rated at 750mAh and you can get up to 1.5 Amp. Or you can take the responsibility an go for 3C (Over 2 Amp)
2.. Most of 50 watt bulbs are too long and may take some space of batteries.
3.. Most of 50 watt bulbs are 6.35 base which won't fit in Mini M*g tube.
4.. Even if you find such a reflector, not much surface left for reflection.
5.. Extreme high temperature in such a small surface will cause uncomfortable to touch even after a minute run.

Some of CPF members have 14 watt 1499 set up which is over the 2C limit but OK for short burst. I still have mine.
This kit is not available anymore.*


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## mvyrmnd (Dec 6, 2009)

fivemega said:


> *Problems are to find:
> 1- Battery that is capable of 7 Amps at 7.2 volts.
> 2- 50 Watt bulb which can run efficiently at 7.2 volt.
> 3- High temperature socket to hold the bulb.
> ...


Would it be possible to get a G4 base bulb in there?

This bulb would still be stretching the limits of the batteries, but should still work for short bursts. The only issue would be that it'd be overdriven like hell on 2x14500's

All we need is for you to make us a turbohead for the MiniMag to fix the reflector issues


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## fivemega (Dec 6, 2009)

mvyrmnd said:


> Would it be possible to get a G4 base bulb in there?


*G4 will fit but issue (2..) still there unless head comes almost off the body.*





mvyrmnd said:


> All we need is for you to make us a turbohead for the MiniMag to fix the reflector issues



*Did you miss this.*


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## mvyrmnd (Dec 6, 2009)

fivemega said:


> *G4 will fit but issue (2..) still there unless head comes almost off the body.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Could you not extend the battery tube? There are cut pieces for C and D size mags. Could the same be done for the MiniMag to return the space used by the bulb?

The turbo head was 3 years before my time here at CPF 

There's another thread here lamenting the lack of interest in MiniMags. A good mod like this might being a few back. Personally I'd love to annoy friends with 6D mags with a hotwire MiniMag


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## tuelleric (Dec 6, 2009)

mvyrmnd said:


> Would it be possible to get a G4 base bulb in there?
> 
> This bulb would still be stretching the limits of the batteries, but should still work for short bursts. The only issue would be that it'd be overdriven like hell on 2x14500's
> 
> All we need is for you to make us a turbohead for the MiniMag to fix the reflector issues



Well, a 6V bulb seems to have always a G4 socket. What makes thinks much easier. Your bulb should be compareable to the Osram 64225 or 64250, which have a diameter of 9mm and a length of 31mm.

The reflector shoudn't be the problem, as my cousin works with a CNC lathe every day. 

Still remains the battery issue...


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## fivemega (Dec 6, 2009)

mvyrmnd said:


> Could you not extend the battery tube? There are cut pieces for C and D size mags. Could the same be done for the MiniMag to return the space used by the bulb?


*Very thin remaining material makes the extension threads very weak.*



mvyrmnd said:


> There's another thread here lamenting the lack of interest in MiniMags. A good mod like this might being a few back. Personally I'd love to annoy friends with 6D mags with a hotwire MiniMag


*I had a plan of making ROP low bulb conversion for Mini M*g but there is not enough interest. 
For 15~20 watt mini size flashlight 17mm bodies for IMR16340 work much better.*


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## tuelleric (Dec 6, 2009)

fivemega said:


> *G4 will fit but issue (2..) still there unless head comes almost off the body.*



Well, I think it'll fit properly. The bulb in front is a 12V 50W G6.35, togeter with the puns it is 38mm long.
The bulb behind is 28mm, but there are more than 3mm left.







If I find some time tomorrow, I will look for a 10W G4 bulb and see how it fits.

Till


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## tuelleric (Dec 6, 2009)

fivemega said:


> *For 15~20 watt mini size flashlight 17mm bodies for IMR16340 work much better.*



I like the challenge!


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## ltiu (Dec 6, 2009)

mvyrmnd said:


> This bulb would still be stretching the limits of the batteries,



Same as this:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...3-6&lpage=none

Notice the much long life:

" ... Life Hours (Hours):2000.0 ... "

vs.

" ... Avg. Life (hrs) 50 ... "

I got this running off 9x AA Eneloops in a 3D Mag.


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## lolzertank (Dec 6, 2009)

As far as I know, Elite AA's are the only cells that can deliver 50W in 2AA size format power source. But they're only 2.4V total. :mecry:

A 2xIMR18500 configuration would work and have a decent voltage; shame they don't fit in Minimags.


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## mvyrmnd (Dec 7, 2009)

Could someone post how to actually get a G4 bulb to fit in the minimag?


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## Benson (Dec 7, 2009)

Morelite said:


> 3 IMR 16340 cells.



Which would be great if the minimag was 16mm _inside_, not _outside_.  Seriously, I think you might be able to bore a minimag to take 16340s, but you'll obliterate the threads for sure, and very thin wall. IMR15270 (RCR2) would be more workable, if only there were any.

If I had to go for the brightest incan rig I could come up with using available batteries, I think converting a 3xAA LED would be the best host. You could either use 2xLiCo 14670, for a total of about 16W, or 3xLiFePO4 14500 (short runtime, but hopefully more current). Looking at Luxluthor's graphs, the CL-1057 looks like a decent match for 2x14670. For the 3x14500, maybe a ROP -- 3854H looks about right, though I'm really unsure how much the available LiFePO4s sag under that load...

The uber-deep head of the LED minimags helps with bulb length, although it's still going to be impossible to fit a real effective reflector in the minimag head for most bulb diameters. TMaybe one of the few cases where an aspheric really makes sense for an incan.

Of course, for the brightest LED rig, the 3xAA also looks best, but now it's dead easy: just stuff it with the highest-performance NiCd/NiMH you can get, DDing an SST-90. But I guess maybe you'd be better with e.g. 5x 1/2AA and a specially constructed buck driver in the remaining tube length -- I'm not real familiar with this sort of batteries, though....


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## mvyrmnd (Dec 7, 2009)

I have a whole bunch of 3v lithium 1/2AA batteries...

4 of them to drive a 12V bulb?

According to a Spec sheet I found, that can sustain 10A continuous discharge, and have a capacity of 950mAh.

At $5 each, it'd be an expensive exercise though... Although a 12V 10W bulb should see ~1Hour of runtime.


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## moviles (Dec 7, 2009)

mvyrmnd said:


> I have a whole bunch of 3v lithium 1/2AA batteries...
> 
> 4 of them to drive a 12V bulb?
> 
> ...




???? what batteries? link


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## mvyrmnd (Dec 7, 2009)

I can't find the link again  But there's a problem...

One site said discharge current of 10A

Another said 10mA...

Me thinks the 10mA might have been right.

Grrr.


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## lolzertank (Dec 7, 2009)

mvyrmnd said:


> I have a whole bunch of 3v lithium 1/2AA batteries...
> 
> 4 of them to drive a 12V bulb?
> 
> ...



Hm... I saw something like that at Fry's the other day. The one I saw was only rated for 35mA continuous drain though.


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## Kestrel (Dec 7, 2009)

Benson said:


> Which would be great if the minimag was 16mm _inside_, not _outside_.  Seriously, I think you might be able to bore a minimag to take 16340s, but you'll obliterate the threads for sure, and very thin wall.


Just a totally oddball idea, but how about making a lookalike minimag body out of steel for a very thin wall thickness? Perhaps a fake tailcap (i.e. a one-piece tube/tailcap), so no rear threads at all - the cells could be changed out the front like the SureFire E-series??

Anyway, a huge amount of effort to contain 3xIMR16340 in something that looks like a minimag, but at least it might be possible - it seems to me that the hardest problem to solve is the power delivery / cell issue, and these are the smallest IMR's out there ... :shrug:


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## mvyrmnd (Dec 7, 2009)

How about 2* AW's 14500

A 6V bulb may be able to handle 8.4V (very short life though)

To drive a 10W bulb they would be discharging @ 2.3C (I think my calculation is right.... feel free to correct me)

Would run for only 15-20 mins, but is rechargeable.

Granted it's a long way from 50W, but it would still be nicer than stock.


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## TheInvader (Dec 8, 2009)

I'd love to try that sometime, but I need a Al reflector for my mini.


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## mvyrmnd (Dec 8, 2009)

And I still need to find out how to get a G4 bulb in there!


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## Lobstradomus (Dec 8, 2009)

I had the same idea about using 2x14500's in my minimag, but I was thinking about using them to drive one of those potted mag-num star xenon bulbs for a 5 or 6 d-cell mag-lite. My basic plan is to shim the top of the minimag by soldering on a few conductive washers for the bulb's flange to sit on. The added washers would raise the bulb out of the body a bit leaving room for the batteries and serve as the negative battery connection. Then I just need to add a threaded non-conductive washer on top of the bulb's flange to keep it from falling forward and tape off the sides of the bulb's base to prevent it from inadvertently contacting the washers and turning on. 

I'm basically using the same switching method that the Minimag already uses but lengthening the body a bit for the potted bulb. I just need to sort out what bulb to use in it, the 5 cell bulb would be right on the ragged edge voltage wise, but the 6 cell would be under driven. Luckily the bulbs are fairly cheap so the only real expense is the batteries, and of course if this doesn't work I can just chop the minimag down and put the stock lamp back in running off a single 14500, or maybe put in a Cree XPG.


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## Kestrel (Dec 9, 2009)

This sounds pretty cool, please post pics if you set this up.


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## tuelleric (Dec 9, 2009)

Hello,

unfortunally i didn't yet manage to get a G4 bulb. But I spend some thoughts on how to fit it in the MiniMag. Should be indeed pretty easy. You just need a little piece of alloy that fits into the body and drill two holes in there. Then you isolate one hole for the plus cable.






You probably need a tailcap switch, but those exist.

Cheers
Till


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## tuelleric (Dec 10, 2009)

Well,

I just figured out that Fivemega offers G4 bi-pin sockets for C and D Mags here.

Guess they would work with an adapter ring in the MiniMag, too.

Maybe someone wants to give it a try?

Till

Edit: orthography...


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## Lobstradomus (Dec 10, 2009)

Kestrel said:


> This sounds pretty cool, please post pics if you set this up.



I think I have it mostly figured out; I tested it with 2xAA's and a spare 3 D Cell mag bulb and everything is looking good. Obviously it wasn't much brighter than a stock minimag but I'm hoping for somewhere close to 180 lumens once I get the lithium ion cells and 5 D cell Xenon bulb. 
As it stands the washers are fitted but not yet soldered together and I have opened up the minimag reflector to fit the larger bulb. Unfortunately the bulb is taller than the reflector so I can't really fit a lens on the light yet without something to lift up the reflector. In the mean time I made a temporary washer out of some spare teflon coated wire which will probably be replaced with a washer made out of a plastic cutting board. 

Here is the basic setup




Here it is resting on the body




Assembled




Test run with 2xAA's and a Mag 3D bulb






A lathe and a piece of round copper would probably make it cleaner looking and reduce resistance but since I don't have those I made do with the washers.


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## tuelleric (Dec 11, 2009)

Wow,

nice to see the first light shining! I think you should try a deeper reflector then. Maybe you can get a spare MiniMag LED reflector that is deeper than the original one (picture). Or you try one of these.

There are several other reflectors mentioned in this thread.

While searching for reflectors I also found this bulb. Looking at the dimensions, it should fit into a MiniMag, too.

Till


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## LumenHound (Dec 13, 2009)

Crazy but since we are on a "what if.." sort of theme then how about the 6 volt bulb shown here?


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## Lobstradomus (Dec 14, 2009)

An interesting side note from my experimenting, it looks like the mini-mag bulbs can be put into a mag solitaire with the addition of a simple spacer or small o-ring under the bezel and run off of a Li-Ion 10440. I will have to try it out and see how I like it since I can always just replace it with an XPG-R5 and run that off the 10440 cell if it's not bright enough.


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## TheInvader (Dec 14, 2009)

Yes, and I would try running the new Xenon minimag bulbs in a solitaire/10440 also.

I have run Solitaire bulbs in my AA MiniMag to overdrive them, haven't blown one yet.


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## kz1000s1 (Dec 14, 2009)

Lobstradomus said:


> I'm basically using the same switching method that the Minimag already uses but lengthening the body a bit for the potted bulb. I just need to sort out what bulb to use in it, the 5 cell bulb would be right on the ragged edge voltage wise, but the 6 cell would be under driven. Luckily the bulbs are fairly cheap so the only real expense is the batteries, and of course if this doesn't work I can just chop the minimag down and put the stock lamp back in running off a single 14500, or maybe put in a Cree XPG.



The 5 cell bulb can be overdriven without a problem. I used to use them with 3 CR123 cells. If you've ever seen the stupid video on Youtube were the guy makes $10 light brighter than a Surefire, that was my mod I did years ago he copied (what he doesn't tell you is how the reflector will melt after 2 minutes). Lithium Ion batteries weren't around yet at the time so i can't say for sure if it'll work.

Do some research and you'll see that many things like this were tried years ago. It's always fun to experiment, but the results are usually disappointing.
It just takes more amperage than a small light can supply to run a 20W or 50W bulb. I tried a 50W MR16 lamp in a 2C Maglite with 4 x CR123 and even that wasn't as bright as it could be.

The best bulb in a minimag is likely one from the Streamlight TL-3.
Here's some info on that:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=104127
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/127855


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## Nubo (Dec 14, 2009)

fivemega said:


> Problems are to find:
> 1- Battery that is capable of 7 Amps at 7.2 volts. ...



Perhaps, 6 x 1/3AA. I have seen these in NiCd, but only 110mAH, so runtime, even if possible, would be ridiculously short.

I've seen mention this size in 300mAH NiMH. This might be somewhat more reasonable, if they could sustain the amperage. I know of some 2/3AA that can do 10-15 amps, but haven't found any specs for these smaller ones. Might be worth a try if 2-minute runtime is acceptable. At 50 watts, any longer would probably turn the light into molten slag anyway


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## bouncer (Jan 16, 2010)

Does anyone know why the Aurora light mod went out of production ? There seems to be quite a demand for a Minimag conversion was the price just too steep or was there some other issue ? I would mod mine if I could find a kit ?

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/auroralite_hotwire.htm


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