# What's Up With This Fad Of Assault Crowns On Lights?



## Ziemas (Dec 6, 2008)

Lately I've noticed more and more assault crowns on lower end lights, to the point where one has to search out ones without. I've got no fantasies about whacking people with my flashlight, I just want to light my way. 

So, I ask, what's up with the rash of flashlights as weapons? 

Thanks. 

Z.


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## hivoltage (Dec 6, 2008)

Have you watched the news lately?


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## Ziemas (Dec 6, 2008)

hivoltage said:


> Have you watched the news lately?


Um, I've read it. What's that have to due with flashlights?


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## Zatoichi (Dec 6, 2008)

The idea of using a flashlight as a self-defense weapon must be popular, or you wouldn't be seeing this trend. I can see how watching/reading the news leaves a lot of people feeling a little insecure. Also, some people probably think they look cool.


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## Ziemas (Dec 6, 2008)

Zatoichi said:


> The idea of using a flashlight as a self-defense weapon must be popular, or you wouldn't be seeing this trend. I can see how watching/reading the news leaves a lot of people feeling a little insecure. Also, some people probably think they look cool.


I totally agree on the watching too much news = paranoia, especially the particular flavor of US news which seems to always ask; will this happen to you? 

That aside, I can't imagine that the majority of people who buy flashlights are thinking of using them as a weapon, but it seems that the majority of new lights that I'm seeing are designed as such.


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## Zatoichi (Dec 6, 2008)

Ziemas said:


> I totally agree on the watching too much news = paranoia, especially the particular flavor of US news which seems to always ask; will this happen to you?
> 
> That aside, I can't imagine that the majority of people who buy flashlights are thinking of using them as a weapon, but it seems that the majority of new lights that I'm seeing are designed as such.



Will it happen to me? Hmm good question. On the one hand I'd prefer to be prepared for anything, but on the other hand I don't wish to live my life in constant fear of being attacked by maniacs. My compromise is to always carry a decent light so I can see what I'm facing, but I don't actually own any lights with assault crowns. I'm more worried what they'd do to my pocket linings than excited about their offensive capabilities.

I agree most people don't buy flashlights as weapons, which is probably why I don't see them on the high street (I'm in the UK btw). I imagine they were initially aimed at people who might need them in a professional capacity, and later became popular with the public in the same way as military-style watches.


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## Ziemas (Dec 6, 2008)

Zatoichi said:


> Will it happen to me? Hmm good question. On the one hand I'd prefer to be prepared for anything, but on the other hand I don't wish to live my life in constant fear of being attacked by maniacs. My compromise is to always carry a decent light so I can see what I'm facing, but I don't actually own any lights with assault crowns. I'm more worried what they'd do to my pocket linings than excited about their offensive capabilities.
> 
> I agree most people don't buy flashlights as weapons, which is probably why I don't see them on the high street (I'm in the UK btw). I imagine they were initially aimed at people who might need them in a professional capacity, and later became popular with the public in the same way as military-style watches.


It sounds like we are of a similar mind on this. I use flashlights for cycling, and the last thing I need is sharp metal bouncing about if I crash. 

I'm curious to see if there will be a US/Europe divide on the need and usefulness of them. 
BTW, I'm an American who has permanently immigrated to Europe, so I have a good understanding of both mindsets.


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## bluecrow76 (Dec 6, 2008)

I really like having crenelations on my lights so I can see if the light is on when it's bezel down.

At the same time, I like look.


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## RaymondMillbrae (Dec 6, 2008)

It's all the violence on TV, video games, movies, etc...

Everyone wants to be an action hero in their own mind.

Cool "tactical stuff" sells.

Folks have this crazy picture in their heads about what they look like handeling and wearing all this gear. I guess they see themselves like a Rambo, a 007 Agent, or something.

I hear folks suggesting all these radical mods to different gear and tools, and have to wonder to myself..."How many folks have really looked the elephant in the eye, or have been placed in a situation that demanded them to look past their immediate, dangerous, surroundings - to a larger, grander, objective"? (Like soldiers, Peace Officers, Missionaries, or Firemen).

I just grin and smile when I read and see stuff like that.







America has become weak. Too many of us are really "couch potato hero's". We are "gangstah's & war hero's" in our own mind's because we play reality video and board games.

A sharp edge on the end of a torch is no match for a thinking, intelligent, human being that is determined to hurt you.

Forego the pointy-ended torch. Lose the belly. Discipline yourself, and mold your body and mind!

Ummm...sorry. 

Kinda started to psycho-babble there. (It's a pet peeve of mine).

In Christ: Raymond


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## vb14 (Dec 6, 2008)

Ziemas said:


> Lately I've noticed more and more assault crowns on lower end lights, to the point where one has to search out ones without. I've got no fantasies about whacking people with my flashlight, I just want to light my way.
> 
> So, I ask, what's up with the rash of flashlights as weapons?
> 
> ...



So one can attach the word "tactical" on it. Didn't you get the memo? Everything has to be tactical (or tacticool) nowadays. ;-)

Seriously though, I use my flashlight just as a light too. For self defense? That's where a gun (or knife) comes in. If I'm down to a flashlight in an encounter, something has gone terribly terribly wrong.


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## Zatoichi (Dec 6, 2008)

vb14 said:


> Seriously though, I use my flashlight just as a light too. For self defense? That's where a gun (or knife) comes in. *If I'm down to a flashlight in an encounter, something has gone terribly terribly wrong.*



Like, for example, you've recently moved to the UK where we're not allowed to carry so much as a toothpick for self-defence.


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## pete55555 (Dec 6, 2008)

Flashlights = Illumination
Self defense = guns


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## metlarules (Dec 6, 2008)

pete55555 said:


> Flashlights = Illumination
> Self defense = guns


 A BIG +1:twothumbs


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## naked2 (Dec 6, 2008)

The OP mentioned "low end" lights; all of these are Chinese made. The problem with Chinese websites (DX, KD, etc.) is alot of times with tanslation. They find a term that sells (like "assault crown") and run with it. They will describe a light with just "slight crenellations" as having an assault crown. 

Imo, they are two different things with two different uses that different people might or might not find useful. I (like bluecrow) like "slight" crenellations on my lights for both reasons he mentioned. 

I also like the stainless steel "strike bezel" (yet another term for assault crown, but imo is more appropriate) on my SolarForce L2 for it's aggressive looks. I'd probably never hit anyone with it, but it's nice to know that I could if I absolutely had to, plus it could be used to break a window in an emergency. I just wouldn't take it on a plane, but that's another thread.

As far as the whole idea of watching too much news = paranoia and wanting to be prepared to defend yourself, buy a shotgun (the best form of home defense) while you still can! Btw, I'm an American, whose second ammendment rights _could _end up being in jeopardy.


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## Jeffa (Dec 6, 2008)

If you have a flashlight with or without a strike bezel in your hand and an adversary of some type, could be a dog on one of your long walks or bike rides, attacks you, you can offer up a little protection for yourself.

In reality the attacker could hit you so fast that your knife or pistol may not be able to be presented in time and in your hand you hold a weapon or with a strike bezel an improved weapon for defense.

You will probably lash out at any adversary with whatever is in your hand and why not a strike bezel?

Have you ever been frightened by a friend or "loved one" for fun? You either scream and turn to run or you get in a fight posture and strike back. Fight or Flight.

Yes, the word tactical greatly increases the cost but it also offers up advantages for those of us who like the advantage and also for those of us that come from countries that are increasingly taking away our options for protecting ourselves.

I have a strong mind, and body and intend to use whatever options for protection are available because in the end we only have ourselves.

I appreciate this site and all of the smart, energetic, and critical thinkers who say that something can be made better or to call bull when some one lies and to look to advance something as simple as a flashlight to a viable offensive, state of the art weapon.

I have even encouraged many of the people I instruct to come here and join or just visit to gain knowledge and think outside the box.

Many of the good flashlights have removable strike bezels for those that do not want them.

I applaud those from this mainly civilian site (I think) that help those of us in law enforcement to do our jobs for you and go home each and every night to our families.

Do not stop the ideas that you think are bad, as lack of sales or capitalism will weed out the undesirable attributes by itself.

Always give your opinion but temper it with others point of view also.

Thank you.


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## TMedina (Dec 6, 2008)

I've never found the damn thing to be useful - having a sharp, unsheathed tool bouncing around loose in a pouch is a recipe for a ruined pouch and, as the cyclist noted, a good way to ruin your day if you happen to fall on it.

People also tend to label and file things without actually giving any thought - as in: "Wow, I feel insecure and afraid at night. I need a flashlight and a self-defense tool. Great, got one. Next item on the list: dinner. Boy am I hungry."

You'll note that nowhere in that sequence of thoughts is the question "how the hell do I use this?" 

You might as well learn to use a mini-maglite body (or similar host) as a kubotan - you're less likely to shred your pockets, you might actually know something practical and you won't come across as a John J. Rambo wannabe.

-Trevor

Edit: And an overly judicious DA will have less ground to chew you up because you were carrying a weapon versus "an improvised defensive device."


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## Jeffa (Dec 6, 2008)

Purchase one with a removable strike bezel and take it off. Once again just because you do not like it doesn't mean it is not useful.

If you go out into the world looking to purposefully violate law you should be worried about the D.A.

Stop trying to scare people with the D.A. talk, yes you should decide if something is good for you or not and go from there.

I assure you I am not afraid of the dark and actually am more comfortable in it but so are those that are trying to hurt us.

If you protect yourself why do you have to worry about the D.A? Isn't it funny how the good worry and the bad do not. 

Take responsibility for yourself and do what is correct for you. Do not force your opinion and limitations down my throat and that is the basis of freedom.

You can protect yourself or call a cop working at 3:00Am while you are in bed to protect you, either way all parties involved will need the means to do this.

I do not understand the name calling. I had hoped for logical reasoning and good discussion, I am sorry for your narrow view and limited ability to see both sides. I feel sorry for those that you are in charge of (if this is the case as you sound the tyrant)


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## Ziemas (Dec 6, 2008)

^^^^

D.A? Huh? You lost me there......

EDIT: Never mind, I just saw what you are referring to.......


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## Jeffa (Dec 6, 2008)

Sorry, I was referring to the post just above mine speaking of the District Attorney (DA)

Let me also clarify that a few of the strike bezels are purported to be glass breakers like the Pentagon with the retractable strike bezel. I am not sure if that was the main reason for such an aggressive style but I do agree that it will tear up pockets.

I do agree a bezel that a sharp bezel would be a bad idea in a pocket and may get you in trouble if used in any situation other than life threatening. I prefer bezels like those on the Olight M20 and the Fenix TK-11. I do not need my flashlight to cut a person. If it must be used in that manner but instead to stun. 

The crenelated bezel is fine for my needs, but I am also not going to belittle someone for wanting something more aggressive.

I am not John J. Rambo, not even close, I just know what works for me and what I have used.


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## Zatoichi (Dec 6, 2008)

Jeffa said:


> If you protect yourself why do you have to worry about the D.A? Isn't it funny how the good worry and the bad do not.



In the UK, it wouldn't surprise me if people carried these thinking they were legal self-defense weapons. The truth is, if you used one in self-defense you could end up having to convince a magistrate that you were not carrying it for that reason (or admitting you were, and facing the music). 

When push comes to shove, I agree with you that it may seem worth facing charges for carrying and using an offensive weapon, that's a choice you have, but there's also nothing wrong with someone pointing out the possible consequences.


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## hivoltage (Dec 6, 2008)

What about a set of car keys in your pocket? They can be used to ram in an attackers eye but that does not make them an illegal weapon. 

I am real tired of the bad guys having rights and the good guys losing the rights to defend themselves.


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## kramer5150 (Dec 6, 2008)

I don't really care one way or another, so long as the metal is clean and not too sharp or obtrusive.


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## Wattnot (Dec 6, 2008)

In untrained hands, even a GUN isn't a guarantee of safety, let alone a flashlight. It could even interfere with a natural instict because of some increased level of confidence. 

When a light could _MAYBE_ come in handy is BEFORE the actual [email protected]#$ hits the actual fan . . . . like someone quickly crossing the street right at you, etc. Even if you're not shining it in someone's face, a light is a distraction and most thieve's worst enemy . . . an attention getter.

Anyway, I'm glad to finally see someone attacking strike bezels for once. Usually it's the poor strobe and/or sos. I'm not against any of it . . . why would I be? I'm just saying . . . :laughing:


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## brighterisbetter (Dec 6, 2008)

bluecrow76 said:


> I really like having crenelations on my lights so I can see if the light is on when it's bezel down.


+1

I don't like _big_ crenelations though unless it's on a turbohead like the KT4.


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## Zatoichi (Dec 6, 2008)

hivoltage said:


> What about a set of car keys in your pocket? They can be used to ram in an attackers eye but that does not make them an illegal weapon.



_Technically_, if you carry them for that purpose, they are an illegal weapon. I think you're pretty safe with car keys though.


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## cave dave (Dec 6, 2008)

pete55555 said:


> Flashlights = Illumination
> Self defense = guns



But its best to be prepared for anything:


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## bodhran (Dec 6, 2008)

I'm new to CPF so there's a lot I still don't understand about flashlights. Thanks to a lot of great people here I am learning and getting a few great flashlights in the process. It just so happens that the flashlights I have gotten have strike bezels. I know what they can be used for but it has never been a consideration in my purchase. If I am attacked and the only thing I have is my flashlight, I'm going to hit them with it. Doesn't make a difference to me if it's my m20 or a plastic flashlight I found at the local store.


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## naked2 (Dec 6, 2008)

cave dave said:


> But its best to be prepared for anything:


:santa:
Nice photoshopping, Dave! I especially like the "hood ornament"!
Oh, and just noticd the car keys (for eye gouging)!


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## Youfoundnemo (Dec 6, 2008)

Use your light as a fist pack, it will add weight for extra oomph in your hits and will make your fist "harder" trust me ive tried it and it works well, I also work out though so just the flashlight isnt gonna do much with out alot of force behind it


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## tx101 (Dec 6, 2008)

> In the UK, it wouldn't surprise me if people carried these thinking they were legal self-defense weapons.



There is not such thing as a "legal self-defense weapon"
I was cautioned by the Police for carrying a plastic kubotan 
With a "UK mind-set" if you can carry a Light with an "assault crown"
you might as well carry something more effective instead.


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## Jarl (Dec 6, 2008)

As for lights with or without assault crowns, if someone jumps out at me in a nasty way and I'm carrying a light, then I'll use it to my advantage to disable them. Unless you've got some pretty beasty spikes on there ALA porcupine making it an obviously offensive weapon, a couple of bits of metal that stick out more than others aren't going to make much difference in the great scheme of things.

And if someone jumps out on me and I'm not carrying a light, I'll disable them. DONT rely on your light (or, in fact, gun) to protect you, because if you do, and you can't access it, you're screwed. Get training for the one weapon you'll always have ready and can always be deployed at a moments notice; yourself


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## Black Rose (Dec 6, 2008)

I don't own a light with an assault crown on it, but I do like the appearance of them to a certain degree.

I prefer the slight crenelations on the head of my Romisen RC-N3 to the nasty looking crown on the Solarforce/Spiderfire/Ultrafire L2 lights.

I can see if I accidentally left the light on without having to tip it.


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## JohnR66 (Dec 6, 2008)

Youfoundnemo said:


> Use your light as a fist pack, it will add weight for extra oomph in your hits and will make your fist "harder" trust me ive tried it and it works well, I also work out though so just the flashlight isnt gonna do much with out alot of force behind it


 
Oooh. Who did you beat up? The neighbor's kid? I don't want to meet this flashlight fist packing fury in some dark alley.

Gotta love these macho types :shakehead


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## evenchaos (Dec 6, 2008)

Modern day poor excuse for brass knuckles. 

But seriously, something is wrong with our society in general (and I am not singling out any one country) when people want/need to resort to unofficial self-defence devices because everything else is illegal and they have nothing to defend themselves with in case of a situation (yes, most other developed countries have serious restrictions on firearms et all unlike the US). Criminals have too much protection these days - seems like anything you physically to them to protect yourself (be it in your own home or on the street) can get you charged or sued.


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## Youfoundnemo (Dec 6, 2008)

Honestly Im not macho or anything like that, and lets keep this discussion above a 6th grade level....quit with the name calling. I know how to use what I have to my advantage. Your from a rural area right (ohio) so you should know what a summer of hay labor will do to keep you stronger than any punk youll find in suburbia or large city


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## applevision (Dec 6, 2008)

I pretty much agree with what's being said here... I have to say that I now find myself _really _wanting a "Tactical Chicken McNugget Dispenser"! 

But the one other thing that I think may have been glossed over is that part of what folks seem to like (present company included) is the idea that this is the *same* piece of equipment used by the Army/Cops/Ninjas/Chuck Norris. 

This is not precisely thinking that we *are* the Army/Cops/Ninjas/Chuck Norris, but rather that we are using a super-high-quality piece of equipment that can be used in battle. I mean it's like Army surplus: if it's good enough for wartime, it's probably fine for my garage. So I think that "tactical" lights have this mystique that they are tougher and more suited to intense use.


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## mr_maurice (Dec 6, 2008)

Has someone here ever used a flashlight in a self-defence or life-threatening situation ? (Like in some of the surefire _true (?) _stories)

If I think a little about how a flashlight could come in handy as a defence tool, only a desperate situation which I expected I could fall into before it happened comes to mind. I mean, if my primary option of running away is just impossible or useless, or someone important to me is involved, i could try to use my L2D as a fist-pack like someone said.

Second option would be to afraid a wannabee gangster with so much light, but a determined trouble maker is not likely to be stopped in any way.

For a civilian living in the French contryside, the situation were I'm feeling quite exposed and helpless is when I go biking at night, where cars and boars are common encounters, and a gun is really useless (and not allowed) I think.

also, 2nd post on cpf


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## RA40 (Dec 6, 2008)

$$ and the marketing departments taking advantage of buyers swayed by "defense" possibilities. That whole SHTF scenario. I'm not disputing it cannot be effective, largely it will be cosmetic so in practical terms...it adds nothing but aesthetics to the light for the majority of users.


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## TITAN1833 (Dec 6, 2008)

LOL They're great for combing through hair on occasions :hairpull:
but trust me on this,as soon as someone jumps at you!your first reaction "carrying a light" will be hit the switch,
I say that because your mind will be conditioned from all that light on light off action you have been accustomed from doing:naughty:


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## naked2 (Dec 6, 2008)

:duck: :whoopin::touche:


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## TexLite (Dec 6, 2008)

As has been said,the term "Assault Crown" is the result of seemingly poor translation or understanding.The better term for the majority of purchasers(outside of LEO,Military) would be "defense bezel".

I don't think its anyones intention to "assault" someone,"defend" themselves yes.To imply that people buy these to inflict malicious,unsolicited injury is totally absurd.



vb14 said:


> Seriously though, I use my flashlight just as a light too. For self defense? That's where a gun (or knife) comes in. If I'm down to a flashlight in an encounter, something has gone terribly terribly wrong.


 


Zatoichi said:


> Like, for example, you've recently moved to the UK where we're not allowed to carry so much as a toothpick for self-defence.


 
Both of these are valid points,coming from two different environments,not simply different viewpoints.

I'm sure most people wouldn't like to rely primarily on a flashlight for self defense,but the kind of "police everything" except apparently criminals is the exact type of attitude and thinking that shifts the seemingly lack of need in the first quoted post to the perceived need of any type of help/advantage if attacked or assaulted in the second quote.

I think women are one demographic who could actually benefit from such a flashlight such as the E2DL,it surely would be more useful than keys when attempting to fend off an attacker. 

FWIW,I don't carry _any_ type of weapon,unless you count the mostly useless 1 inch blade in my multitool.But I respect the right of others to do so responsibly.

-Michael


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## fieldops (Dec 6, 2008)

mr_maurice said:


> Has someone here ever used a flashlight in a self-defence or life-threatening situation ? (Like in some of the surefire _true (?) _stories)



The only time I used a flashlight aggressively is when a friend and I were at a rest area on an interstate. A little girl was attacked by a pitbull 100' away from us. The dog just latched on to the kids leg. It would not let go. It was like a bench vise. I hit the dog several times with a 4D Mag. It just kept hanging on like nothing was the matter. A police officer showed up just in time to shoot the dog. The kid was cut up but was going to be ok. As a dog person, I felt bad for the animal, Apparently a couple of gang bangers raised the dog to be mean and viscious. In any event, I would not rely on a "assault crown" to save my neck. YMMV


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## insanefred (Dec 6, 2008)

Funny, I was wondering if "tactical" in flashlights are starting to become overused last night. 
The strike bezels are indeed becoming a fad for sure. In other words, "Trendy". Eeeww...
People are saying they need them, you know just in case, I say they're getting paranoid. (smoking to much dope?). 
If you do live in a bad area and you need something for defense, they're many better alternatives than a flash light. 
It won't take long for a flashlight to be classified as potential weapon because some kid decides to use it against some bullies at school. 
Personally I would NEVER carry a flashlight for self defense.


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## brightarc (Dec 6, 2008)

I like those "assault crowns" because it is nice to know that I just didn't accidentally leave that light on.

I tend to go after the ones that are made out of stainless steel as I can dull them down without having to worry about damaging any anodizing and thus ruining the looks of the light.

Other than aesthetics and the added functionality mantioned above, assault crowns are pretty useless.
For self defence a can of OC would do just fine, atleast it works a treat on most agressive dogs.

Being a dog owner I would rather have my dog sprayed than having it beaten to death with an assault bezel, not that it is agressive.


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## bigdaddy (Dec 6, 2008)

Maybe we can ask the manufacturers instead. Hey "what's that assault crown for?" :whoopin:


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## JohnR66 (Dec 6, 2008)

Youfoundnemo said:


> Honestly Im not macho or anything like that, and lets keep this discussion above a 6th grade level....quit with the name calling. I know how to use what I have to my advantage. Your from a rural area right (ohio) so you should know what a summer of hay labor will do to keep you stronger than any punk youll find in suburbia or large city


 
Okay, Sorry. When someone comes in here claiming to have beat someone with a fist packed flashlight, it makes me wonder if it is just some tall tale.

Would you care to elaborate on that situation?

I do not work on a farm, but I do exercise, mainly to keep fit - so I can run like hell from any punk. They are likely to be brandishing at least a knife. I don't feel paranoid enough to be lugging around weaponry but I don't live in a bad area.


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## guiri (Dec 6, 2008)

Ziemas said:


> Lately I've noticed more and more assault crowns on lower end lights, to the point where one has to search out ones without. I've got no fantasies about whacking people with my flashlight, I just want to light my way.
> 
> So, I ask, what's up with the rash of flashlights as weapons?
> 
> ...



Ugly isn't it? I hate it too and often, I have NOT bought one because of them.


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## Wattnot (Dec 7, 2008)

brightarc said:


> For self defence a can of OC would do just fine, atleast it works a treat on most agressive dogs.
> 
> Being a dog owner I would rather have my dog sprayed than having it beaten to death with an assault bezel, not that it is agressive.


 
Keep in mind that OC spray designed for HUMANS can be lethal on dogs. Make sure if you use this type of OC spray on a dog, you are justified in killing it. They make defense spray for use against dogs . . . most mail carriers use it. It's specifically made for use on dogs and is not lethal to them. Of course THAT spray probably won't help if used on a human!

And when did the name change to "assault crown?" What happened to "crelenated bezel" or "defender" etc.?


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## guiri (Dec 7, 2008)

brightarc said:


> For self defence a can of OC would do just fine, atleast it works a treat on most agressive dogs.



What's OC?


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## fieldops (Dec 7, 2008)

Oleoresin Capsicum (pepper spray)


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## guiri (Dec 7, 2008)

Ah, ok.

Well, from EXPERIENCE, I can assure you that this doesn't help on a dog in kill mode so that's useless. Might work when they decide to give the mailman a love bite but not if their adrenaline is pumping...I KNOW!


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## fieldops (Dec 7, 2008)

brightarc said:


> Being a dog owner I would rather have my dog sprayed than having it beaten to death with an assault bezel, not that it is agressive.



I don't think it would be so easy to beat a dog with an assault crown. It better be the porcupine type. I know if that pitbull had been after me, an assault crown probably would have just gotten him PO further.


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## TexLite (Dec 7, 2008)

JohnR66 said:


> Gotta love these macho types :shakehead


 
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." 
-Sir Winston Churchill



insanefred said:


> People are saying they need them, you know just in case, I say they're getting paranoid. (smoking to much dope?).


 
I would say the paranoid people are the ones questioning the usefulness of anothers choice of bezel on a _flashlight_.

I don't know I've heard of "flashlight assaults" being a problem in modern society.Robbery,rape,assault,etc. are however very real problems,not dilusions. 

Paranoia=(2) a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others. 



bigdaddy said:


> Maybe we can ask the manufacturers instead. Hey "what's that assault crown for?" :whoopin:


 
There are various reasons posted throughout this thread.

-Michael


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## guiri (Dec 7, 2008)

fieldops said:


> I don't think it would be so easy to beat a dog with an assault crown. It better be the porcupine type. I know if that pitbull had been after me, an assault crown probably would have just gotten him PO further.



If it's anything like the dog I'm talking about, he wouldn't even have known you were there beating him and NO, I am NOT joking.


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## naked2 (Dec 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *bigdaddy*
> 
> 
> _Maybe we can ask the manufacturers instead. Hey "what's that assault crown for?" :whoopin:_





TexLite said:


> There are various reasons posted throughout this thread


 And ALL of them good ones, for those who _choose_ them. God I'm glad I live in the good ol' US of A! 
:candle: (This smilie is the CPFers version of The Statue of Liberty!)


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## vb14 (Dec 7, 2008)

Flashlights, guns, knives, kubotan, brass knuckles, OC, etc... You know what's common among these things? These are all tools with different applications. But any of these won't magically save you from anything. If you carry any of these tools for whatever purpose, make sure you know how to use them for that purpose. Carrying a flashlight as self defense is fine, as long as you know how to use it for such purpose. On the other hand, carrying a gun doesn't mean you will win in a fight over someone carrying another tool, if you don't know how to use your gun. Remember that when SHTF, one will revert to ones lowest level of training. So although having the right tool is great, training and having the right mindset is an integral part of self defense. Pardon me if I'm preaching to the choir here. 

Paranoid? Well I'm guess I'm proud to be one. At least I know I won't be an easy victim... or as others have put it in other forum/s, I'm not a "sheeple".


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## ja10 (Dec 7, 2008)

To play devil's advocate, here are a few uses:

- Ice pick for ice fisherman or people who walk on frozen lakes in the winter.
- Punch for breaking auto glass
- Additional protection for the glass/optic
- Crenelated tail caps allow for tail standing while still making it easy to activate the switch (unlike simple recessed switches)
- Heads-down illumination when tail standing is too bright

I just picked up an E2DL, and the crenelated bezel was part of the decision. I don't have any fantasies about hitting anyone or anything with it, but it doesn't mean there aren't other uses.


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## curtis22 (Dec 7, 2008)

If the question is about flashlights in general as opposed to LED lights, there is a general flashlight forum.


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## brucec (Dec 7, 2008)

In my view, an "assault crown" is just that, an improvised weapon. Just about anything can be an used (and probably has been used) as an improvised weapon. Keys, spare change, flashlight, mobile phone, camera, belt, backpack, laptop computer, etc. Now, do I want sharp pointy spikes on my laptop computer to enhance its tactical capabilities in the off-chance of a confrontation in business class? Hell no, but I can't argue the fact that a laptop with spikes would probably make a better, or at least scarier, weapon than one sans spikes. For me, I don't like sharp pointy spikes on anything that I normally carry, including flashlights. But who am I to question other free-thinking individuals in their EDC spike choices? My watch is waterproof to 300m, my iPod can store 83 continuous days of music, I can charge a car to my Mastercard, I have an indestructible Ti flashlight that outputs 100lumens, etc. Do I really need or use any of these items anywhere close to their capabilities? No. We go through our lives carrying all kinds of nonsense, but we do it because we like it and it is our lifestyle choice. If someone happens to prefer an assault crown on their flashlight, that's fine by me. Live and let live.


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## Ziemas (Dec 7, 2008)

curtis22 said:


> If the question is about flashlights in general as opposed to LED lights, there is a general flashlight forum.


Wow. I posted in the LED section for a reason.......


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## Ziemas (Dec 7, 2008)

brucec said:


> In my view, an "assault crown" is just that, an improvised weapon. Just about anything can be an used (and probably has been used) as an improvised weapon. Keys, spare change, flashlight, mobile phone, camera, belt, backpack, laptop computer, etc. Now, do I want sharp pointy spikes on my laptop computer to enhance its tactical capabilities in the off-chance of a confrontation in business class? Hell no, but I can't argue the fact that a laptop with spikes would probably make a better, or at least scarier, weapon than one sans spikes. For me, I don't like sharp pointy spikes on anything that I normally carry, including flashlights. But who am I to question other free-thinking individuals in their EDC spike choices? My watch is waterproof to 300m, my iPod can store 83 continuous days of music, I can charge a car to my Mastercard, I have an indestructible Ti flashlight that outputs 100lumens, etc. Do I really need or use any of these items anywhere close to their capabilities? No. We go through our lives carrying all kinds of nonsense, but we do it because we like it and it is our lifestyle choice. If someone happens to prefer an assault crown on their flashlight, that's fine by me. Live and let live.


I never questioned anyone's right to have an assault crown, I asked why they seem to be on the majority of new lights.


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## brucec (Dec 7, 2008)

Ziemas said:


> I never questioned anyone's right to have an assault crown, I asked why they seem to be on the majority of new lights.



Because flashlight connoisseurs are typically gear-o-philes, and gear-o-philes typically like over-spec'ed products. And there is typically a price premium for those extra unused features. If this is getting in your way of finding flashlights that suit you, well then you are unfortunately in the minority of a majority rules business world. Personally, I don't think there is any shortage of good non-spiky flashlights out there.


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## sappyg (Dec 7, 2008)

i can take em or leave em'.. mostly leave em'
DON'T TAZE ME BRO!


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## Hobiecat93 (Jan 3, 2009)

The only use I can think of for an assult crown would be to use it on pressure points but I doubt that too many people have knowledge of where pressure points are on the body. Even so a flashlight will never be my frontline defense against an attacker


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## ev13wt (Jan 4, 2009)

I would not use such a bezel in a strike fashion. The side of the head of the light I would use, if forced into that situation. 
I see no reason for those bezels, as I would never break glass with the operating end anyways: Why endanger a good tool for a task it is not made for? Because mostly I would be afraid of breaking the glass and thus maybe, in rain most likely, loosing my light.

That said, with such a bezel you would do major damage if you hit an eye or just skull. I see legal ramifications and generally this will lead to problems. It always does once you start carrying weapons or an object with the intent to use it as a weapon.

If the other person is armed you will be left with, well a flashlight in your hand... I doubt that will help for anything at all exept maybe a <1 second flight advantage.

edit: I guess it just looks mean. Mean looking black things sell well in America. And it is another "feature" you can print on the box.


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## Jarl (Jan 4, 2009)

ev13wt said:


> That said, with such a bezel you would do major damage if you hit an eye or just skull



So will a smooth bezel :/


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## ev13wt (Jan 4, 2009)

Jarl said:


> So will a smooth bezel :/



:thinking:

Did you sharpen it?  Can you make cool paper cutouts with that?


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 4, 2009)

The thickness of most bezel rings will be skinny enough to cut the meat on a face with a good amount of force behind it.

Ever punch a guy and split his lip or cut the skin on his cheek bone? Same thing.


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## ev13wt (Jan 4, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> The thickness of most bezel rings will be skinny enough to cut the meat on a face with a good amount of force behind it.
> 
> Ever punch a guy and split his lip or cut the skin on his cheek bone? Same thing.



Well yea, but a pointy bezel will still do more damage and go deeper.
Lets just agree to shine lights not bash people with them?


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 4, 2009)

:thumbsup:
I am right with you!


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## Guy's Dropper (Jan 4, 2009)

If I was attacked by someone, and my best weapon was my flashlight, I'd like to have as big and sharp a bezel as I could. However, the chances of that happening, in my mind, do not justify making my light unnecessarily heavy, long and dangerous. It seems more like an aesthetic benefit than a practical one. And I don't even like the way aggressive bezels look most of the time. I prefer smaller bezels or smooth ones, for the most part.

Honestly, I'd prefer a 3D Maglite to anything else with any size bezel for defense.


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## Jarl (Jan 4, 2009)

ev13wt said:


> :thinking:
> 
> Did you sharpen it?  Can you make cool paper cutouts with that?



No, I didn't, and I can't, but if you just want to hold still while I hit you in the eye with my L2D.... No, didn't think you'd want to 

Providing you get a target, then a couple of mm extra penetration from a spiky bit on your light isn't here nor there, apart from the fact that yay, you're now most likely covered in contaminated bodily fluids.


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## outersquare (Jan 4, 2009)

tactical flip flops and teddy bear backpacks


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## Pellidon (Jan 4, 2009)

bluecrow76 said:


> I really like having crenelations on my lights so I can see if the light is on when it's bezel down.
> 
> At the same time, I like look.



I have wasted some batteries doing just that. The crenelations help me see if I did it again. Fortunately it was an LED light so it didn't burn the desktop or crack the lens. Or worse. 

I like them if they aren't too sharp.


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## richardcpf (Jan 4, 2009)

I like moderated bezels just because they look cool. Like the JetM back, the extreme and tk11..

But pointed/sharp bezels... If you really need to hurt somebody why not get a knife or a gun? Besides that, if you are actually able to stab your enemy at close range, which is not easy, it wouldnt do much damage anyways.






*I've got many light with assault crown, and the only one who gets hurt is me, when trying to dissemble the light or unscrew the head. *

Some cheap manufacturers thinks that being extreme is cool. Like those superfire gold-painted flashlights with 1'' fins to "dissipate heat".


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## SureAddicted (Jan 4, 2009)

richardcpf said:


> ...it wouldnt do much damage anyways.



Oh yes it would, particularly if the person on the other end of the assault bezel knew what he/she was doing. It could even prove to be fatal. 
I often wonder why the majority of companies are going this route. The average Joe doesn't want or need a strike bezel, I'm just wondering who they are aiming the lights towards.


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## Jarl (Jan 4, 2009)

SureAddicted said:


> Oh yes it would, particularly if the person on the other end of the assault bezel knew what he/she was doing. It could even prove to be fatal.
> I often wonder why the majority of companies are going this route. The average Joe doesn't want or need a strike bezel, I'm just wondering who they are aiming the lights towards.



Hitting someone with a metal object (such as a flashlight with no crenelations) can very easily be fatal, if you know what you're doing. +/-5mm penetration doesn't make the blind bit of difference.


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## SureAddicted (Jan 4, 2009)

The pic richardcpf posted of the light with assault bezel has major spikes. +/- 5mm is way understated, try 10-15 mm, and it could mean the difference between hitting a major blood vessel. I could certainly with one strike sink the entire spikes into soft tissue, and if a major artery is in it's path then you know the rest.
I'm pulling myself out of this thread for the sake of not having it locked.


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## baterija (Jan 4, 2009)

So who's going to write mythbusters? Barring that we could have our own version with some nice extra thick cuts of meat being "tenderized" with strike bezels vs cuts without strike bezels. It almost makes me want to buy a really aggressively bezeled light just to see. :naughty:


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## gifters (Jan 5, 2009)

The only think I would kinda like to have is a glass breaker on the bezel of my Fenix TK 11. Not that I need it since I already carry other glass breakers but it would give me some tactical advantage.






Still need to fit in a holder though and not attack me. I don't really care for the look though.


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## hiredgun (Jan 5, 2009)

brucec said:


> Now, do I want sharp pointy spikes on my laptop computer to enhance its tactical capabilities in the off-chance of a confrontation in business class? Hell no, but I can't argue the fact that a laptop with spikes would probably make a better, or at least scarier, weapon than one sans spikes.



brucec,

You just gave me an incredible entrepreneurial idea! With laptops, we've seen enough with the fancy colors, slim lighweight designs, etc. It's time to move laptops in a new direction--klingon assault spikes! It should really appeal and sell well to the nerdy and trekkie types! Now if I could strike up a co-manufacturing deal with the tactical McNugget dispenser people, I could be a multi-millionaire by 2011. I'll be sure to cut you in for 10%.



brucec said:


> Because flashlight connoisseurs are typically gear-o-philes, and gear-o-philes typically like over-spec'ed products. And there is typically a price premium for those extra unused features. If this is getting in your way of finding flashlights that suit you, well then you are unfortunately in the minority of a majority rules business world. Personally, I don't think there is any shortage of good non-spiky flashlights out there.



Seriously now, you hit the nail on the head. Summed up the whole thread right there.


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## Superdave (Jan 5, 2009)

This one is a bit overkill but it's nice to know that If I ever need to go mountian climbing i'll have something to help dig into the dirt. :laughing:








Too bad it won't fit in my holster that way. 


I prefer a little crown on my light, i've used the 6PD bezel to smash glass, poke holes through drywall and other random things. It's handy to have as a tech. The Klingon bezel resides on my polished 9P for now.. http://www.3500z.com/Misc/Lights/Misc 011 (Medium).jpg

It actually works well as a lantern.


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## js-lots (Jan 5, 2009)

A few guys at my job have already commented on the assault crown on my flashlight. I use the flashlight for law enforcement but I dont think I will be using it to strike someone. I have a retractable baton for that.


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## 289 (Jan 6, 2009)

Ziemas said:


> I'm curious to see if there will be a US/Europe divide on the need and usefulness of them.
> 
> 
> > Who cares what the europeans think, my guess is that most europeans will not like them as it has violent undertones and europeons are too sophisticated for that nonsense.
> ...


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## Jarl (Jan 6, 2009)




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## Ziemas (Jan 6, 2009)

289 said:


> Ziemas said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious to see if there will be a US/Europe divide on the need and usefulness of them.
> ...


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## ev13wt (Jan 6, 2009)

289 said:


> Ziemas said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious to see if there will be a US/Europe divide on the need and usefulness of them.
> ...



Europeans or Europeons, can we pick one speeling? :wave:

:shrug: 

The German guy I bought it (edit: tk10) from was amused by the pictogram of an AK47 printed on the front, shook his head and said: "I have never seen something like that." "I see it is intended for the US market."  
I then explained "tactical flashlight" to him and he started grinning slyly. Go figure.

"Assault crown" would have confused him.


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## Zatoichi (Jan 6, 2009)

ev13wt said:


> "Assault crown" would have confused him.



Surely it would also confuse an American who didn't have an above average interest in flashlights? 

Firearms are a lot more restricted in some places than they are in the US, but I'm confused as to how that makes the populations 'sophisticated' and their opinions worthless. :thinking:


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## Hellbore (Jan 6, 2009)

I think the assault crown thing is all about looks. People think they look cool or tactical or whatever.

I also think it's kind of silly that they would be more popular in America than elsewhere. After all, in America if I want a self-defense weapon, I can just buy a gun, and very easily at that. At the price of some of these high-end lights, a gun is almost cheaper. Why bring a flashlight to a (potential) gunfight?


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## ev13wt (Jan 6, 2009)

Zatoichi said:


> Surely it would also confuse an American who didn't have an above average interest in flashlights?
> 
> Firearms are a lot more restricted in some places than they are in the US, but I'm confused as to how that makes the populations 'sophisticated' and their opinions worthless. :thinking:



Of course it would also confuse many modern Americans. :twothumbs

Your second statement confuses me as well. I put it in the same line of argumentation as "tactical flashlights and "strike bezels" sales success. 
edit: I would rather own a "Search and Rescue mil-spec" labeled flashlight with a window breaker than a tactical "labeled" flashlight with a strike bezel. But that is just me.


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## cruisemissile (Jan 6, 2009)

we've heard alot of good comments for and against these bezels.
my 2 pesos- funky, exaggerated, sharp things at the end of your light diminish usefulness. (for the most part, for most people).
again, my opinion only.
the bezel on my SF E2DL is more than enough "bad" for my purposes.


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## 289 (Jan 6, 2009)

Ziemas said:


> 289 said:
> 
> 
> > Ziemas said:
> ...


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## Zatoichi (Jan 6, 2009)

ev13wt said:


> edit: I would rather own a "Search and Rescue mil-spec" labeled flashlight with a window breaker than a tactical "labeled" flashlight with a strike bezel. But that is just me.



Well, deep down there's a part of me that's drawn to such things too. :laughing:


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## JOHNNY-FLASH (Jan 6, 2009)

*Glock 19 , need I say more ?*


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## easilyled (Jan 6, 2009)

To answer the OP's question about why there seem to be so many assault crowns on lights, its no doubt a commercial decision
that is taken in the hope that this will make the light more attractive to the buying customers (like you and me).

There are many reasons why a manufacturer may reason this way.

For example:-

1) Mimicking a successful design and formula such as that of Surefire lights and offering them for less money is likely to help sell their products

2) In cheaper lights, the SS bezel may give the false impression that the quality of the light appears better than it really is.

3) Positive feedback from communities such as CPF. Any manufacturer reading this thread would conclude that the majority of customers
would be more likely to buy a light with a bezel because they *think* it helps with self-defence (whether this is true or not)

4) In Custom and more expensive lights, the bezel might be there for some good reasons (other than a combat situation).

- so the user can see if the light is on while head down, as has been mentioned.
- in order to protect the weaker Aluminium from being distorted in a drop by the tougher and stronger Stainless Steel or Titanium
- to add a finishing touch to the design and aesthetics.


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## saabgoblin (Jan 6, 2009)

Once again, I think that we must make a differentiation between crenelated bezels and actual strike bezels. Look at the Surefire E2dl defender as opposed to the other crenelated Surefire models and you will see that it is a matter of degree. You could always "strike" someone in the head with the butt or head of a AA [email protected] lite and that tube would do some serious damage on it's own. Personally, I don't want to carry a strike bezel because I feel that I would be more open to inviting agression so I choose not to but for some vocations and situations I feel that they may be very useful. Actual strike bezels are like an apple corer for your opponents brain so be careful what you invite into your life because you may well be overdrawn.

Safety and security either real or imagined are selling points plain and simple.


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## TexLite (Jan 6, 2009)

ev13wt said:


> ...edit: I guess it just looks mean. Mean looking black things sell well in America.


 
Is that a fact?

I see your qualified to comment on American culture. 



ev13wt said:


> Lets just agree to shine lights not bash people with them?


What if someone decides to "bash" you first?

Is self defense acceptable to Europeans?



289 said:


> Who cares what the europeans think, my guess is that most europeans will not like them as it has violent undertones and europeons are too sophisticated for that nonsense.


 
Exactly,everyone knows there is no crime in Europe.



Ziemas said:


> There is no need to act like a hick.


 
Nor is there the need to act like a snob.



Zatoichi said:


> Surely it would also confuse an American who didn't have an above average interest in flashlights?


Another person qualified to comment on Americans.



Zatoichi said:


> Firearms are a lot more restricted in some places than they are in the US, but I'm confused as to how that makes the populations 'sophisticated' and their opinions worthless. :thinking:


Because it means you've already let someone strip you of your rights.



ev13wt said:


> Of course it would also confuse many modern Americans. :twothumbs


And yet another comment on American population at large.

Its strange to me that Americans get the blame for all of this when the really exaggerated bezels are being produced by the Chinese.

I'm really concerned an Administrator hasn't stepped in to remind posters that racial bias isn't allowed here.

-Michael


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## gsxrac (Jan 6, 2009)

Ok my 2 cents... I just recently started carrying a m20 with a "crenelated" bezel... You know what I use it for? To bleed off excessive heat if im working on something and decide to leave it on its head for a little bit and to see that its still lit. I cant say I would never use it for self defense but thats not what I intend it for. Thats why I carry a REAL concealed weapon which I AM trained to use. Do I need it? Im 6'4, 240 pounds, grew up fighting all my life for one reason or another, and im fairly "built" if you wanna call it that... But is that gonna do me very much good if somebody pulls a gun on me...?
And to the preson that said its all the violence in video games and movies these days all im gonna say is it aint that, its all the violence in real life... Video games and movies dont make people crazy, thats what the news is for 

BTW Why hasnt this thread gotten locked yet? Theres a LOT of people bashing Americans and American culture...?

AND I forgot to mention that I also wouldnt defend myself with a crenelated/strike bezel for a reason that another member (a LEO) pointed out in a previous thread do you really want some unknown aggressors bodily fluids gushing all over you after you smack them in the face with your pointy flashlight? Sounds like a good way to contract diseases?


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## pipspeak (Jan 6, 2009)

vb14 said:


> If I'm down to a flashlight in an encounter, something has gone terribly terribly wrong.


 


I also chuckle at the claims of bright light itself being a self defense weapon. Unless the laws of physics have changed recently, light alone will not counter momentum and really won't disorient anyone (unless perhaps they're half blind and deaf already). A decent strobe, on the other hand, can buy you a few seconds.


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## pipspeak (Jan 6, 2009)

Forget strike bezels... these strike tails actually could be useful with the weight of a Mag behind them...

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=185345[/URL


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## Jarl (Jan 6, 2009)

TexLite said:


> .....
> 
> -Michael




Making friends 101: Insult everyone, all at once. Everyone will love you after that!


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 6, 2009)

ricehaterboi said:


> BTW Why hasnt this thread gotten locked yet?


 
+1


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## ernsanada (Jan 6, 2009)

This is one Mean Light!


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## js (Jan 6, 2009)

This forum is primarily for the discussion of flashlights, not politics or culture, and certainly not for baiting or trolling or inappropriate remarks.

I think everyone has made his or her point and the discussion has run its' course.

Thread locked.


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