# Icon Rogue 1 - First Look Now with Pics!



## 65535 (Jan 30, 2009)

:twothumbs

Well after about a week of waiting my Icon Rogue 1 flashlight has landed.

Blister packs are far from my preferred packaging, but you get what you get and blister packs are store friendly.

It's a well machined light, all the things you read about the rails being weak are inaccurate (at least in my experience) the rails are quite robust, and unless you run over or abuse them they shouldn't bend at all. 

Beam quality is excellent and on high matches closely to level 3 on my U2.

 The UI is a little weird Press once for the first level (could be high or low depending on where left last) then release and press again for the other level. Press hard and click to stay lit up. This can be annoying but it's not a terribly big deal.

I was wrong somehow I was tricking myself or the light (and I don't think it was the latter) It has no memory beyond the quick on off sequence. You let it sit for a few seconds and it WILL start on high.

The tailcap is LOUD. It has a metallic ping to it when depressed. It has great action but it isn't for stealth. The rubber boot is great too I love it.

The threads are buttery smooth and the machining and anodizing are perfect. The rails are sharp on the inner surface but not more than 90 degrees so it shouldn't cut anything, may fray cordage though.

For me it's the perfect size, and has a nice light weight to it.

If I can (and I might try) I would change the switch to something more quiet, and I would either make it single stage or use a Novatac/Ra UI for the clicky switch.

Pictures later.

Low mode is PWM at a good frequency it won't flash with light movement but infront of a fan or if you wave at it with a finger quickly it shows it's PWM. If high is also PWM it's beyond what the brain can process.





































































Ps. Mine's grey too.


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## alfreddajero (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

Cool cant wait for the pics and more of what you think about it......


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## Federal LG (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

Nice!

Waiting for the pics too...

Excuse me but, where did you buy it ?


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## deranged_coder (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*



65535 said:


> The UI is a little weird Press once for the first level (could be high or low depending on where left last) then release and press again for the other level. Press hard and click to stay lit up. This can be annoying but it's not a terribly big deal.



It has a memory? I thought it always came up on high mode first, similar to the E1B and E2DL? :thinking:


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## AMD64Blondie (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

I have been quite interested in getting a Icon Rogue and was curious.. do you think the Rogue 1 would be bright enough for nighttime walking,or should I splurge and get the Rogue 2?


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## swrdply400mrelay (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

wow, where did you get it if i may ask?


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## Illum (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*




:nana:


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## Black Rose (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*



deranged_coder said:


> It has a memory? I thought it always came up on high mode first, similar to the E1B and E2DL? :thinking:


That's what I thought as well.

I thought Bernie (Kiessling) said the Rogue 2 did not have memory.


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## 65535 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

Edited my original post about the UI I was wrong and tricked myself.

The light was purchased from the same Honk Kong shop on e-bay that Bernie purchased his from.

I think this would be the perfect walking light, the beam is flawless and in my case has a nice cool LED color while not being blue. Honestly for walking I don't care to have more than 20 lumens and only need about 3-5 lumens. I don't care to attract attention with over 100 lumens and try to keep my night vision intact, it also helps to not blind others.

Unfortunately my card reader is still MIA so no pictures for now, some have been taken but no upload. With a current bump I think this could make a great thrower light the beam is very nice.


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## 65535 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

Also the pill is either screwed in very tightly and made very precisely or a thread locker is used. I am wary of using heat due to the amount of plastic in the head. Boiling water may be attempted later if someone can confirm the stability of common plastics and plastic mirror coatings at around 220F.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

Yikes!
Good point. Might have to come up with another trick besides heat........


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## AardvarkSagus (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

Nice little quick review there. I've been intrigued by this light since I first heard about it. I wouldn't mind reviewing one, but that looks like it will have to wait for a while. Can't wait for the pics. Hope you find your card reader soon.


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## Federal LG (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*



AardvarkSagus said:


> ... Can't wait for the pics. Hope you find your card reader soon.



*+1 :thumbsup:

*I´m specially interested in Icon Rogue 1. It looks like it´s the best choice for a KISS UI AA light, for it´s price!

Probably gonna get one... :devil:


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## Flying Turtle (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*



Federal LG said:


> Probably gonna get one... :devil:



I'm beginning to think the same thing. With the shorter length compared to the Rogue 2 those rails will be stiffer. Looking like a good back door beater. If Wally's comes in under $30 it's a go. Well, maybe $35.

Geoff


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## Size15's (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*



Flying Turtle said:


> With the shorter length compared to the Rogue 2 those rails will be stiffer.


Geoff,
Actually the open architecture of the Rogue 2AA has shorter spans then that of the Rogue 1AA.

Al


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## Flying Turtle (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

Thanks, Al. My memory of the design was playing tricks on me. I now see what you mean.

Geoff


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## 65535 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

Updated PWM mention in teal.


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## cave dave (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*



65535 said:


> Updated PWM mention in teal.



Not everybody perceives PWM the same. I can detect and am annoyed by PWM that some others can not see. So if you can detect by waving your finger I would say I will see it almost all the time I use low. The PWM on some LED car tail lights really annoys me.

Icon is a no go for me for PWM alone.

2nd opinion: This is not a tactical light, It should start on low first.


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## Long RunTime (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

Interesting light from PK.


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## 65535 (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

Pics added.

Btw the PWN is incredibly high, I'd estimate it is up in the 10KHz range. No hum and on a 3600 rpm fan it cycles about 21 flashes per revolution. (Guesses but non the less it's FAST!)


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## alfreddajero (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Icon Rogue 1 - First Look*

Thanks for the review.....also nice job on the pics. Would you consider this light to be a good edc carry.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Feb 1, 2009)

> Btw the PWN is incredibly high, I'd estimate it is up in the 10KHz range. No hum and on a 3600 rpm fan it cycles about 21 flashes per revolution. (Guesses but non the less it's FAST!)


 
Well, 3600 rpm is 60 revs per second, so if it flashes 21 times per revolution, it would be 1260 Hz, right? I estimate the PWM flicker rate to be lower than that on the low power setting, maybe I can get another guess with a controlable computer fan with a speed readout, I like your methodology. Perhaps someone here has an oscilloscope or frequency counter to measure the pulse frequency.

Whatever the flicker rate, it is noticable to me.


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## 65535 (Feb 1, 2009)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Well, 3600 rpm is 60 revs per second, so if it flashes 21 times per revolution, it would be 1260 Hz, right? I estimate the PWM flicker rate to be lower than that on the low power setting, maybe I can get another guess with a controlable computer fan with a speed readout, I like your methodology. Perhaps someone here has an oscilloscope or frequency counter to measure the pulse frequency.
> 
> Whatever the flicker rate, it is noticable to me.



I always make that mistake switching Hz with minutes on rpm so yes it would be closer to 1KHz which imho makes way more sense. although it's inaudible so either they have good shielding or it's indeed above audible.


I don't think I would EDC this light myself due to the lack of pocket clip. If you don't mind that then it is a fine edc the lock out head only requires a fraction of a turn to lock out.


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## Long RunTime (Feb 1, 2009)

:thumbsup: Very nice pics. Thanks for the review. I'm thinking of getting one.


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## AMD64Blondie (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm planning to order my new ICON Rogue 1 tomorrow,when I get home from work. Can't wait. (I think I'm hooked....)


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## Splunk_Au (Feb 1, 2009)

So the rogue uses a plastic tectured reflector? That's a first, I've never seen anything other than smooth plastic reflectors.


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## Burgess (Feb 1, 2009)

My Princeton Tec flashlights have 

very nicely textured plastic reflectors. :thumbsup:


Nothing wrong with plastic, 

as long as it doesn't get too hot.


_


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## 65535 (Feb 1, 2009)

Textured plastic is pretty common. I have no problem with plastic reflectors (I don't care for smooth, but that's another story.)

IMHO a orange peel plastic reflector can be superior to a metal one. The beam is nicer than any light I own. Just as good as my U2 or 120P.


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## Lightguy27 (Feb 2, 2009)

What are it's dimensions? Mostly interested in length but width too.


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## Lightguy27 (Feb 2, 2009)

Oh and for the record I am definitely getting one, I just am concerned about the length of the Rogue 2. It will come down to output vs. size.


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## 65535 (Feb 2, 2009)

My good 6" 150mm metal rule is in the car. I'll get that for you tomorrow.


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## Federal LG (Feb 2, 2009)

Hey 65535... what´s with the huge bezel logo ?

Is it glued ? Do you think it´s easy to remove it from the bezel ?


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## 65535 (Feb 2, 2009)

I'd guess a poor choice in logo placement and size. Although it really doesn't bother me a bit, it seems like it could be peeled off the head pretty easily possibly with just a fingernail. 

On the ICON thread there is a link on the last page that shows the Rogue abused and the logo popped off.


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## alfreddajero (Feb 2, 2009)

I was thinking about putting this in a single AA holster......right next to my D10, and ITP C9.........


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## 65535 (Feb 2, 2009)

It's about 4.5625" x 1.0625". Much larger than a Novatac 120P that I have. 

For the price point and AA features I like it. For output and general use I'd take a Novatac over it.


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 5, 2009)

I got my green Rogue 1 in today. I just had to try one out myself.

The fins are flexible. First thing I did was to squeeze on of them flat "testing" it. :shakehead I guess I generate more PSI than others.............
Anyway I fixed it by putting the excellent lanyard in there and pulling it back out. Easy fix but too many times doing this and it'll stay semi deformed!

Best free lanyard I have ever gotten!
Looks quite water resistant.
Cool tint.
I quite like the switch actually, though low first would of been better for me. 
I find it funny that a light this inexpensive was able to totally eliminate the Cree ring. :laughing:
Great threads but arrived dry.
Light weight.
Not so fond of the glued in plastic lens, I'm picky like that.
Good size for my hand, not too big or too small.
I really like the low runtime on paper, we'll see...........
Low is not _quite_ low enough but it almost never is in a stock light.
I wish it was more floody actually, the OP is really light on this one.
The symbol on the bezel isn't as huge as the pics led me to believe.

Looks hard to swap the emitter without destroying the thing.:mecry:
There's plastic in that head an alot of glue too. Heat will melt it and brute force will kill it. I'd love to put a 5A Q3 in it for better color temp or maybe even a Seoul to make it more floody! I may risk boiling the whole head next week after I play with it a bit more. I'm liking the Seoul idea though the Krylon sputter would do wonders for the flood aspect..

Sweet little beater light that I can get cells anywhere for and it won't kill me to rough it up or loose it! Good to leave in the car, gear bag, or the locker at work. I might pick up another.


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## Size15's (Feb 5, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> Best free lanyard I have ever gotten!


I've been suggesting PK offer the lanyard by itself because they are really useful! Perhaps in time...


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## Federal LG (Feb 5, 2009)

Sarge, post some pics of it!

Specially beamshots... :thumbsup:


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## jtivat (Feb 6, 2009)

Well if SureFire is making it I am disappointed and would expect more. The LED in mine is pee green!:thumbsdow


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## mega_lumens (Feb 7, 2009)

What makes Rogue different or special than other AA lights in the category? The website claims 3 hours on high on an Alkaline cell. Can anyone confirm if the runtime specs are for alkaline or lithium cells?


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 7, 2009)

Federal LG said:


> Sarge, post some pics of it!
> 
> Specially beamshots... :thumbsup:


 I can do that for you on Sunday night.


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## Size15's (Feb 8, 2009)

jtivat said:


> Well if SureFire is making it I am disappointed and would expect more. The LED in mine is pee green!:thumbsdow


SureFire isn't making these.
ICON is making them.
They are separate and independent.



mega_lumens said:


> The website claims 3 hours on high on an Alkaline cell. Can anyone confirm if the runtime specs are for alkaline or lithium cells?


The ratings are based on the batteries supplied with the flashlights - Energiser AA alkaline batteries.


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## Tohuwabohu (Feb 8, 2009)

The runtime graphs of my Icon Rogue 1 on high look very strange.





With all 3 types of batteries, alkaline, NiMH and Energizer Lithiums the graphs have nearly the same shape with several sharp bends.
The first bend is at 10 minutes, the second after 52 minutes and a third after 245 minutes.
Between the bends the graphs drop in small steps.
What is even more fascinating is that these steps occur at the same time for all types of batteries.

I am wondering if this is the normal and intended behaviour of the driver.

With the alkaline battery I still saw approx. 1 lumen after 21 hours.
A test with an Energizer Lithium is still running.

The included runtime graphs of the Fenix L2D Q5 were done with a single cell and a spacer.

My review of the Icon Rogue 1 in the German Messerforum.net. Preliminary runtime over 21 hours in post #25


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## Sharpy_swe (Feb 8, 2009)

That wasn't impressive at all


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## nakahoshi (Feb 8, 2009)

Good information:thumbsup:, looks like a good cell drainer. 
-Bobby


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## jirik_cz (Feb 8, 2009)

This is the worst regulation I've ever seen. :thumbsdow


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## Size15's (Feb 8, 2009)

Sharpy_swe said:


> That wasn't impressive at all





jirik_cz said:


> This is the worst regulation I've ever seen. :thumbsdow


Is the best way to 'regulate' or control the output of a flashlight to force a 'table-flat' output until the batteries can not give any more and then have the output drop like a stone to almost nothing?

As with most things I believe what is best is often determined by the context.

As Flashaholics and those using flashlights as tools a 'given output for a given runtime' is a reasonable performance criteria where the informed user can more expectedly keep better track of the usage of the tool and it not be a 'shock' or 'surprise' when the output drops like a stone out of regulation.

The general public have no such experience or expectations and to them such characteristics do not fit as well in their sporadic use of a flashlight.
Feedback has shown that the sharp drop out of regulation can be taken to mean the flashlight is broken and the user discard/dispose of it. Of course we would automatically change the batteries and this shows just how much difference in thinking (or lack of thought) there is between Flashaholics and the general public.

If PK's ICON brand is intended to satisfy Flashaholics then I think PK has not make the best design intentions.
If PK's ICON brand is intended to satisfy a mass-market general consumer then I think PK's designs hit for more of the marks he intends then perhaps Flashaholics in our haste may recognise.

When I saw the output/runtime chart I told PK that CPF members weren't going to like it one bit. Just as well he wasn't intending to please us then!

As has been noted the Rogues are regulated in a very specific, carefully controlled, deliberate manner that is very different to what we Flashaholics have become accustomed to. I think this is an example of when we trip up on the adage "just because [with electronics] we _can_ do something, it doesn't always mean that we _should_."

Al


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## Kiessling (Feb 8, 2009)

It behaves practically the same with all three cell configurations. You get the same result regardless of the cells you put in there. Interesting.


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## jirik_cz (Feb 8, 2009)

I understand that the driver was fine tuned for good runtimes with alkalines. But manufacturer SHOULD mention that the output will drop to 30 percent in 1 hour. :shakehead


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## paulr (Feb 8, 2009)

Sharpy_swe said:


> That wasn't impressive at all



The graph is a little bit misleading. It compares the 1 cell Icon against a 2 cell Fenix. A 1 cell Fenix's output looks more like the Icon's.


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## Kiessling (Feb 8, 2009)

What I don't understand is ... why aren't there any differences between the cells? Where's the energy going? 
The Fenix does as expected and shows a difference between the cell chemistries, the Icon does not. :thinking:


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## nzbazza (Feb 8, 2009)

paulr said:


> The graph is a little bit misleading. It compares the 1 cell Icon against a 2 cell Fenix. A 1 cell Fenix's output looks more like the Icon's.



I don't think it is.

The poster states that he used a single AA and a spacer in his L2D, so it is a fair comparison. 

It might be worth while checking out Selfbuilt's 1AA thread for another Fenix 1AA runtime graph.

Personally the Icon isn't ringing my bell...


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## Kiessling (Feb 8, 2009)

I wonder what would happen if you took intermittent runtimes. It almost looks like the Icon is using some timer to reduce the output on continous burn. Just a very wild thought inspired by those strange looknig graphs.


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## Flying Turtle (Feb 8, 2009)

nakahoshi said:


> Good information:thumbsup:, looks like a good cell drainer.
> -Bobby



This is good to know. Thanks for doing the runtime work, Tohuwabohu. This might be a challenger to the Task Force 1AA for battery vampire honors.

Geoff


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## Tohuwabohu (Feb 8, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> What I don't understand is ... why aren't there any differences between the cells? Where's the energy going?
> The Fenix does as expected and shows a difference between the cell chemistries, the Icon does not. :thinking:


The graphs are not complete.
I stopped the run with the Eneloop after 4.5 hours because I thought the cell was drained and I did not want to overdischarge it.
The Energizer lithium is still running, the output is higher than with the alkaline cell:




I'll post the final graph tomorrow or whenever it has dropped to the same level as with the alkaline battery after 21 hours.



Kiessling said:


> I wonder what would happen if you took intermittent runtimes. It almost looks like the Icon is using some timer to reduce the output on continous burn. Just a very wild thought inspired by those strange looknig graphs.


I'll try that when the Energizer lithium runtime graph is finished.


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## Kiessling (Feb 8, 2009)

Thanx !


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## Size15's (Feb 8, 2009)

Tohuwabohu said:


> The graphs are not complete...


Using rectangles and triangles over the image of the chart above I estimate the the area under the incomplete LiAA runtime curve is 50% greater than the area under the Alkaline AA curve for the same time period.

Obviously with the actual data one could determine this far more accurately.

Al


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Feb 8, 2009)

> The runtime graphs of my Icon Rogue 1 on high look very strange.


 
Yep, that looks pretty bad. I've probably used my Rogue on high for about 10 minutes. I've used it on low for maybe 45 minutes during a walk. I need to let it run and see if it falls off so dramatically.

Perhaps Surefire/PK are trying to replicate the Maglite discharge curve for the general public but somehow I doubt it. Surefire is known to be a little creative with their 'useful light' runtimes but this would take the cake.

It looks like the light continuously ramps down with a timer, the rate changes at a couple of fixed times. From this chart, the three hours on one AA claim looks pretty weak even by blister pack marketing standards.

Wonder if the timer resets if the light is cycled off for a moment? Or does the battery need to be changed? Does the 2 AA light do any better?

Looks like the light tested is faulty or the design needs to go back into beta...


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## Size15's (Feb 8, 2009)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> It looks like the light continuously ramps down with a timer, the rate changes at a couple of fixed times.
> 
> Wonder if the timer resets if the light is cycled off for a moment? Or does the battery need to be changed? Does the 2 AA light do any better?


Perhaps CPF members can find interest in exploring this even though it appears it is operating differently to the way we've come to expect? Almost like showing an interest in flashlights that transcends our own individual selfish wants and expectations?



Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Looks like the light tested is faulty or the design needs to go back into beta...


The output/runtime chart looks normal to me which means it is operating as intended.
I haven't seen any evidence here that suggests that it won't satisfy the market it is designed for. Too early to tell on the mass-market appeal doesn't appear to have to go without saying.


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## GPB (Feb 8, 2009)

I am assuming PK still works for Surefire. If that's the case, this light must have been brought to market with the understanding that it wouldn't cut into Surefire's sales, or compete with anything that they offer. So it seems unlikely to expect these lights to be on par with SF.


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## Size15's (Feb 8, 2009)

GPB said:


> I am assuming PK still works for Surefire. If that's the case, this light must have been brought to market with the understanding that it wouldn't cut into Surefire's sales, or compete with anything that they offer. So it seems unlikely to expect these lights to be on par with SF.


PK still works for SureFire. ICON is owned by SureFire - PK is taking ICON into a whole new market; independent and separate from SureFire.

If by "on par" with SureFire you mean leading the industry as a significant force within the markets they operate in then ICON certain aspires to be that brand for it's markets.
But if you're suggesting expectations that a consumer automobile can be on par with a fighter jet I don't think it's valid to compare the two brands because many of the criteria used to design them are so different.

Al


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 8, 2009)

I agree that it looks like a malfunctioning Rogue 1. Looks like it is running with a poorly designed circuit. Any number of circuits from DX would show a better runtime profile with one AA. I look to see more runtime tests, and will do one with mine when it arrives this week.

Bill


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## Size15's (Feb 8, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> I agree that it looks like a malfunctioning Rogue 1. Looks like it is running with a poorly designed circuit. Any number of circuits from DX would show a better runtime profile with one AA. I look to see more runtime tests, and will do one with mine when it arrives this week.
> 
> Bill


Bill,
It's going to disappoint your expectations but that output/runtime chart for the Rogue 1 is exactly what I was expecting to see (as was your reaction). It is performing as it has been designed to (whether we like it or not).
Perhaps using it will be different though? Don't forget to actually use your new flashlight as well as subject it to testing! :nana:


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## GPB (Feb 8, 2009)

Size 15. I was implying that Surefire wouldn't consent to another product line that would directly compete with, or take market share away from their existing lights. I am sure that Icon desires to be the best at their market, I was just surmising that their intended market won't have much overlapp with the existing Surefire Market. I wasn't intending to slight Icon in the least.


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## Size15's (Feb 8, 2009)

GPB said:


> Size 15. I was implying that Surefire wouldn't consent to another product line that would directly compete with, or take market share away from their existing lights. I am sure that Icon desires to be the best at their market, I was just surmising that their intended market won't have much overlapp with the existing Surefire Market. I wasn't intending to slight Icon in the least.


Ah well in that case we agree - SureFire and ICON aren't aiming to compete in the same markets. Plenty of room to play in and not get in each others way!


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 9, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Bill,
> It's going to disappoint your expectations but that output/runtime chart for the Rogue 1 is exactly what I was expecting to see (as was your reaction). It is performing as it has been designed to (whether we like it or not).
> Perhaps using it will be different though? Don't forget to actually use your new flashlight as well as subject it to testing! :nana:



LOL. Yeah, I do tend to use my flashlights, but also have fun testing them out, comparing them to other lights, sort of what a lot of us real flashaholics do. :nana:

Bill


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## Sharpy_swe (Feb 9, 2009)

Tohuwabohu said:


> The graphs are not complete.
> I stopped the run with the Eneloop after 4.5 hours because I thought the cell was drained and I did not want to overdischarge it.
> The Energizer lithium is still running, the output is higher than with the alkaline cell:
> 
> ...




Could you please also include the Fenix on low in the graph? That would be interesting to see!


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## kts (Feb 9, 2009)

> The fins are flexible. First thing I did was to squeeze on of them flat "testing" it. :shakehead I guess I generate more PSI than others.............
> Anyway I fixed it by putting the excellent lanyard in there and pulling it back out. Easy fix but too many times doing this and it'll stay semi deformed!


 
:thumbsdow

Plastic lense and reflector :sick2::thumbsdow


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## Size15's (Feb 9, 2009)

kts said:


> :thumbsdow
> 
> Plastic lense and reflector :sick2::thumbsdow


I can understand reasons why people may prefer a glass window rather than polycarbonate.
For LED lights I acutally feel there is greater security and durability with Lexan. It will not crack unlike glass that can and does on occasion.

With regards to a plastic reflector - again for an LED light there is no need from the beam perspective to use a metal reflector. PK has designed the Rogues with excellent thermal management specifically so that a metal reflector is not necessary.


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## diff_lock2 (Feb 9, 2009)

The run time graph killed any chance of me getting one. Even though I would be using it on low for normal tasks, as a bike light, constant output is safer.


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## Tohuwabohu (Feb 9, 2009)

Size15's said:


> The output/runtime chart looks normal to me which means it is operating as intended.
> I haven't seen any evidence here that suggests that it won't satisfy the market it is designed for. Too early to tell on the mass-market appeal doesn't appear to have to go without saying.


Good to know that my Icon Rogue 1 is not defective.



Size15's said:


> Using rectangles and triangles over the image of the chart above I estimate the the area under the incomplete LiAA runtime curve is 50% greater than the area under the Alkaline AA curve for the same time period.
> 
> Obviously with the actual data one could determine this far more accurately.
> 
> Al


I completed the runtime test with the Energizer Lithium.
Total light output during 21 hours continuous run plus approx. 1 hour after I had turned off the light for 1 minute was 82% higher than with the the Alkaline Battery (some cheap Kodak battery from the same pack that I had used for the Fenix runtimes)



Sharpy_swe said:


> Could you please also include the Fenix on low in the graph? That would be interesting to see!


Sorry, I never did any runtimes in low mode with the Fenix.
And I don't think I ever will.

But I had some time to complement the Icon runtimes.






With the Alkaline battery the output had dropped below 1lm after 21 hours.
After turning off the light it would not come one again.

With the Energizer Lithium I could turn on the light after I had it turned off after 21 hours.
The light started on high level again, the shape of the graph looks similar to that at the beginning.

A more datailed view of the first 5 hours:





Zoomed in to the first 100 minutes




The graph in cyan ist the second part of the Lithium runtime after I had turned off the light for one minute after 21 hours.

I repeated the runtime with the Eneloop.
This time I observed the light output with my oscilloscope during the recording.
In the first 10 minutes there was no sign of PWM.
After 10 minutes I could see PWM at a frequency of 143Hz and I could watch the output going down step by step with decreasing pulse widths.
After 4 hours I cold see no further decrease of the pulse width.

PWM frequency at the low setting is 451Hz.
The brightness in low level is slightly higher than in high setting after more than 4 hours of continous runtime.


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## Kiessling (Feb 9, 2009)

Thanx for doing that. Very interesting indeed. This behaviour makes absolute sense for the mission this light will be subjected to. Maybe not for us flashaholics, but I can see a lot of positive implications of this behaviour.

What happens if you switch if off an on again after one or two hours?

bernie


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## selfbuilt (Feb 9, 2009)

Thanks for all the runtime data Tohuwabohu - very interesting! :thumbsup:

So, it looks like Bernie's suggestion of time-limiting output may be correct. With continuous running on any battery, your Rogue 1 appears to run on roughly equivalent max output for ~10 mins, followed by ~45mins of linearly decreasing output with PWM, then a prolonged period of reduced output until the cell is exhausted (whose length - but not output - naturally varies depending on the battery source used).

Very interesting that the L91 snapped back to almost exactly the same initial output pattern with only 1 min of rest time. I wonder if its using some sort of time signal as a stand-in for thermal protection limiting? :thinking:

Thanks again for the very useful comparison. I'm looking forward to playing with mine when it arrives (just got the shipping notice from hkequipment, so likely a good week or two, unfortunately). I don't have an oscilloscope, but my poor man's sound card/red LED sensor trick works well to accurately capture <300 Hz PWM data, so I should be able to confirm most of your numbers as well. 

P.S.: As an aside, I can see that this performance pattern could be well-suited for most general purpose uses (i.e. you can always turn it off and back on again for max output, etc.). I've sometimes taken guff for "wasting" my time including alkaline runtime data, but AA alkalines remain the battery of choice for the vast majority of the public. The idea of matching output patterns on different battery chemistries - but allowing "moon mode" runtime to vary - is very interesting.


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## Kiessling (Feb 9, 2009)

If this assumption is indeed true this would mean that the Rogie "thinks" for its user, saving battery and "re-strike" ability without the user knowing and, most important, without the user noticing, as the eyes can very well compensate for the gradual dimming in a dark environment, at least in that kind of environment the light is built for.

I am intrigued I have to admit.

Thanx again for all this testing!!! :bow:

bernie


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## selfbuilt (Feb 9, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> I am intrigued I have to admit.
> Thanx again for all this testing!!! :bow:


I have to admit, I'm getting pretty intrigued too. The more I think about it, the more I'm looking forward to having it in my lightbox ...

For example, I do have a lot of complete low mode Duracell alkaline runtime data on 1xAA lights, including the Fenix L1D (i.e. runtime until the lights shut-off). I can easily do area-under-the-curve summation to measure total output under these conditions, to see how the lights compare for total illumination produced over time.

And it will be fun to compare the uninterrupted Rogue runs to repeated stop/starts ... yes, I can see keeping myself amused for a little while on this one. :laughing:

Thanks again for all the preliminary data Tohuwabohu. Can't wait until mine gets here - it will be nice to have something different to play with.


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## Tohuwabohu (Feb 9, 2009)

selfbuilt said:


> So, it looks like Bernie's suggestion of time-limiting output may be correct. With continuous running on any battery, your Rogue 1 appears to run on roughly equivalent max output for ~10 mins, followed by ~45mins of linearly decreasing output with PWM, then a prolonged period of reduced output until the cell is exhausted (whose length - but not output - naturally varies depending on the battery source used).


After the ~45mins of linearly decreasing output there are another ~3hours of linearly decreasing output, only the time between the individual steps is longer than in the previous 45 minutes. 



> Very interesting that the L91 snapped back to almost exactly the same initial output pattern with only 1 min of rest time. I wonder if its using some sort of time signal as a stand-in for thermal protection limiting? :thinking:


I don't think that the battery had to snap back, the output pattern would probably have been the same if I had switched the light on immediately after switching it off. 

And I don't think that any sort of thermal protection limiting is necessary in the Rouge 1 - the output is too low to generate excessive heat.



> Thanks again for all the preliminary data Tohuwabohu. Can't wait until mine gets here - it will be nice to have something different to play with.


I'm already looking forward to see you review.
I hope you cold find some useful hints for yor measurements in my posts.

I'll try to make same scope shots of the PWM signal.


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## selfbuilt (Feb 9, 2009)

Tohuwabohu said:


> After the ~45mins of linearly decreasing output there are another ~3hours of linearly decreasing output, only the time between the individual steps is longer than in the previous 45 minutes.


Right, I can see that on your graphs - it's very clearly stepping down that whole time it's on that lower output level. Interesting.



> I don't think that the battery had to snap back, the output pattern would probably have been the same if I had switched the light on immediately after switching it off.


That would be my guess as well. Any chance of you testing that? 



> And I don't think that any sort of thermal protection limiting is necessary in the Rouge 1 - the output is too low to generate excessive heat.


Yeah, I wouldn't be too worried about heat either at these levels. Just wantonly speculating as to why the circuit may have been designed for stepping down this way.  And I agree with Bernie, the drop-off appears to be gradual enough that you probably wouldn't even notice it until a fair amount of time had passed.



> I hope you cold find some useful hints for yor measurements in my posts.


You've been very helpful - it's always nice to see some quantitative data, and your stop-start results are particularly interesting. :thumbsup:

Now back to waiting for regular air mail from Hong Kong ... sigh.


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## qip (Feb 9, 2009)

they should really advertise this info on the packaging, otherwise the person who is unlikely to understand why the light goes dim in a hurry may thinks his batteries are draining to fast and regrets buying the light then buys a new light


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 9, 2009)

So the Rogue 1 will be good for short tasks, 10 minutes or less with no drop in output, but on, say a long one hour walk, output will drop to about 1/3. A lot of my use if less than a few minutes, so I would not notice, and my light meter would not notice any appreciable drop in output for many, many uses of the light. I will be nice when we have some more tests done on different Rogue 1's.

Bill


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## Kiessling (Feb 9, 2009)

qip said:


> they should really advertise this info on the packaging, otherwise the person who is unlikely to understand why the light goes dim in a hurry may thinks his batteries are draining to fast and regrets buying the light then buys a new light




It does not dim in a hurry, it dims over 45 minutes. Your eyes will hardly notice this drop in constant darkness. In not so constant darkness, when using it intermittently, you have full power.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Feb 9, 2009)

Regulated constant brightness for a whole ten minutes?

And it's designed to drop off rapidly after that?

How innovative.


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## GPB (Feb 9, 2009)

Does anyone have any information about the distribution channels that Icon will be using ? ie: will this be a specialty store item like Surefires, primarily an online item, or will it reach the mass market through retail outlets like Target and Walmart ?


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## GPB (Feb 9, 2009)

I would bet that the majority of flashlight use is for short bursts shorter than 10 minutes. You get to the fusebox to reset the breaker, you go out to the shed to put the yard tools away, you look behind the dresser for a dropped earing, etc. In a long term use situation, having a declining, but longer lasting brightness is probably more useful to most people than the constant brightness, sudden drop off that many lights have.


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## baterija (Feb 9, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> It does not dim in a hurry, it dims over 45 minutes. Your eyes will hardly notice this drop in constant darkness. In not so constant darkness, when using it intermittently, you have full power.



To put it in perspective, it's got a little less runtime to 50% as an Incan Minimag on alkaline. The mag doesn't have the same regulated first 10 minutes either. Once the Rogue starts dropping it drops at a faster rate. 

For those of us here that's not a big deal. For the target market it seems like an odd design choice. They're probably most used to nonregulated lights where dropping output signals the need to change batteries. They aren't going to read this thread. How many of that market would change out good cells when at an hour into a power loss they realize the light is noticeably dimmer? Reducing power usage to lengthen runtime doesn't help if they swap out good cells. It may well shorten runtime between battery changes.


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## qip (Feb 9, 2009)

baterija said:


> To put it in perspective, it's got a little less runtime to 50% as an Incan Minimag on alkaline. The mag doesn't have the same regulated first 10 minutes either. Once the Rogue starts dropping it drops at a faster rate.
> 
> For those of us here that's not a big deal. For the target market it seems like an odd design choice. They're probably most used to nonregulated lights where dropping output signals the need to change batteries. They aren't going to read this thread. How many of that market would change out good cells when at an hour into a power loss they realize the light is noticeably dimmer? Reducing power usage to lengthen runtime doesn't help if they swap out good cells. It may well shorten runtime between battery changes.




thats my point, you cant be sure the masses will use it for less than a half hour, surely theres gonna be plenty of guys who tend to work on their cars and just leave the light on for a while and have it lay under the hood , meanwhile you know when your working on cars time flys by in a hurry so that half hour goes quick and to him the light will be garbage and he will never know that its doing it on purpose and will change out the batteries thus wasting batteries or probably will wanna get a new light , even working around the house doing some construction where the person leaves the light on for a while


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## Size15's (Feb 9, 2009)

I find it encouraging that we have some interest here in figuring out just how this light ticks. Far more than meets the eye it seems.

What do people do when they notice their flashlight has gone dim?
They turn it off and on again right?
If this causes the output curve to reset back to the beginning then perhaps that is a useful outcome?

Of course there may well be plenty of people who leave their Rogues switched on and forget they've done so. This controlled reduction in output may help prevent wasting the batteries?

I hope we can continue to constructively explore the 'technical' side of things and see whether it matches with real world actual usage experience.

Al


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## AMD64Blondie (Feb 9, 2009)

My new ICON Rogue 1 just shipped out via UPS. Now comes the fun part(not!)-waiting..


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## jdriller (Feb 9, 2009)

Fellas, let's remember who designed this light and driver. PK, right? New to the world of led lights and drivers? I think not. We are the ones with run time graphs, performance charts, regulated outputs, etc. Look at the light another way.

How would you like a light that had the same initial brightness every time you switched it on? Sounds impossible, right? But with a newly designed driver, the likes that no one has seen before, this may be possible. This driver may be designed with a max runtime of 10 minutes before it goes into power save. Then after some specified time off, it is back to full brightness again. Let's say it can do this for 7-10 repetitions. It would seems that the light never runs down. Max bright, all the time, for short periods of time. The fox is thinking outside of the cpf box.


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## Federal LG (Feb 9, 2009)

jtivat said:


> Well if SureFire is making it I am disappointed and would expect more. The LED in mine is pee green!:thumbsdow



Well, my *Surefire* L1 is greenie as the Incredible Hulk, unfortunately! 
And it´s SF, not Icon.


That runtime chart is amazing! Thanks for posting it.
I think this new Icon light is not for me, after all... I was excited about it, but now I see it´s not a good choice, due to it´s lack of regulation, plastic pieces, etc. :thumbsdow

But I like it´s design. Just the design...


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## Size15's (Feb 9, 2009)

Federal LG said:


> ...due to it´s lack of regulation...


And yet the output/runtime chart clearly shows the output is being regulated. Just not in the way some were expecting it seems


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## jirik_cz (Feb 9, 2009)

jdriller said:


> How would you like a light that had the same initial brightness every time you switched it on? Sounds impossible, right? But with a newly designed driver, the likes that no one has seen before, this may be possible. This driver may be designed with a max runtime of 10 minutes before it goes into power save. Then after some specified time off, it is back to full brightness again. Let's say it can do this for 7-10 repetitions. It would seems that the light never runs down. Max bright, all the time, for short periods of time. The fox is thinking outside of the cpf box.



What is impossible on that? If you will run any other flat regulated light for just a couple of minutes it will alway start at the maximum brightness too... :huh: 

Don't want to offend anyone but It is a little bit funny to hear still more and more excuses just because these lights are designed by SF


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## Black Rose (Feb 9, 2009)

selfbuilt said:


> (just got the shipping notice from hkequipment, so likely a good week or two, unfortunately)
> 
> Now back to waiting for regular air mail from Hong Kong ... sigh.


Once it leaves Hong Kong it shouldn't be that long...a couple of days maybe. 

At least that's what I've observed with the tracking data for my DX purchases. 
Once it's on a plane out of Hong Kong, it'll be in Mississauga the next day and in my hands 2 days after that.


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## cave dave (Feb 9, 2009)

Keep in mind this light is intended for an alkaline audience. 

If all you had were a couple alkalines you salvaged from your remote which light above would you rather have? L1T or Icon?

Back in my early caving days I used a PT Solo headlamp. Incandescent and Alkalines. I can assure you that in constant use for 3 hrs you don't actually notice the decline in brightness till the very end. Even then you notice the tint shift to red more than the actual drop in output. By the time you actually notice the difference you only have about 10 min of light left. Its probably about a 1/10 of the original brightness at that point but your eyes have adjusted as it declined. The eyes ability to adapt is an amazing thing really.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Feb 9, 2009)

> Don't want to offend anyone but It is a little bit funny to here still more and more excuses just because these lights are designed by SF


 
Shhh, you're not supposed to say that!:laughing:

Still, I really like the light!:laughing:


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## Flying Turtle (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm wondering if the light is still producing usable light beyond the four hour mark on an alkaline? By usable I mean enough to see your feet for walking or enough to read something. Is it the low level we all wish more lights had, or just a meager glow? Ten to fifteen hours of usable light would be pretty nice.

Geoff


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## Kiessling (Feb 10, 2009)

> Don't want to offend anyone but It is a little bit funny to here still more and more excuses just because these lights are designed by SF



But of course you wanted to offend and I dare say you succeeded.

Excuses. Interesting POV. Look at it from another angle. This light is desinged by PK. The world's leading designer of flashlights. He knows what he is doing. It would have been easy to design a classic circuit and put it in the light so that it behaves like any other light. He knows his stuff.
But he made a different choice. Maybe thinking about why he did that and what the benefits might be, especially considering the target market, would be an interesting an enlightening thing to do as a flashaholic?
This is not a badly designed circuit. It just works differently than we are used to.

Having an open mind is always a plus. Not having one is not, and insulting others with that in mind is just unacceptable. Excuses you said. Let me repeat your graemlin for you:


Oh and btw ... the lights aren't designed by SF. But I guess you won't even listen to that.

bernie


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## diff_lock2 (Feb 10, 2009)

So after one hour of constant use on high, will turning it off, and then back on result in a second wave of declining output?


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## Size15's (Feb 10, 2009)

diff_lock2 said:


> So after one hour of constant use on high, will turning it off, and then back on result in a second wave of declining output?


That's an excellent question. I don't have any means of measuring what happens myself - I hope those that do can enlighten us!


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## Tohuwabohu (Feb 10, 2009)

diff_lock2 said:


> So after one hour of constant use on high, will turning it off, and then back on result in a second wave of declining output?


Yes.
I tested it with an Eneloop:





1 hour on high, 22 minutes on high, some minutes on low and then high again.


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## dilbert (Feb 10, 2009)

That's really interesting.


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## diff_lock2 (Feb 10, 2009)

As a bike light, no, as edc/gift, YES!

Anyone know if 4sevens will be stocking these? I need a retailer that ships to the eu, at a low shipping rate. 

The 2xAA seems a bit huge, and single cell is better to keep track of(charge cycles). 

looking for an edc for my mom, the E01 really disgusted her, that purple hue, even with scotch tape, wasn't comforting. gave it away to someone else. 

This ICON is a flashlight for dummies, and me! 

Price seems right as well. Still need a cheap quality bike light though...


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## Federal LG (Feb 10, 2009)

If I´m correct, Icon will have that ridiculous "no export for you!" policy, that Surefire has too...

:thumbsdow


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## Size15's (Feb 10, 2009)

Federal LG said:


> If I´m correct, Icon will have that ridiculous "no export for you!" policy, that Surefire has too...
> 
> :thumbsdow


Lets hope that the ICON Rogues have the mass-market mainstream appeal intended and that they get into stores locally for all of us not to need to resort to international purchases.


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## Federal LG (Feb 10, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Lets hope that the ICON Rogues have the mass-market mainstream appeal intended and that they get into stores locally for all of us not to need to resort to international purchases.





Al... before you say that, you should come to Brazil to see our local stores...

*Mark my words:* I doubt Icon will EVER show it´s face around here. Sorry dude, but I just can´t understand all this bullshit. Totally nonsense!

Yes, you can say that "it´s to protect local dealers...". Yeah, yeah... but we DON´T have local dealers around here. Neither from Surefire, neither from Icon. So, why can´t I buy from my trustable american dealer ??

:thumbsdow


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## Size15's (Feb 10, 2009)

There are plenty of places around the world that have a different set of values to the USA.
Taking the rough with the smooth may result in our getting fewer of the benefits so we can enjoy fewer of the downsides.
Seriously though - I never got the memo stating that life was fair.

Perhaps if you want ICONs then you can work to become Brazil's distributor/retailer if you can't convince existing retailers to do so for you?

Al


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## saabluster (Feb 11, 2009)

Tohuwabohu said:


> Yes.
> I tested it with an Eneloop:
> 
> 
> ...


I really don't know what to say on this one. Part of me says PK had a stroke of genius. Another part says he just had a stroke. I'm trying to think real hard how this would be viewed by non-flashaholics since that is the intended audience. I think there is a real opportunity to sell this as an asset or feature to their customers. What happens if they don't know this was intended though? Say a guy is working on his car for awhile and finally notices that it is no where near the brightness it started with. Then as one might naturally do you'd shake it and switch it on and off to see if maybe something was not making very good contact. Then he notices it does come on much brighter. Whats he to think. Keep in mind most people have no idea that flashlights can have a circuit that controls the output. They are used to mags. Mags dim over time yes but this light dims then it brightens, dims and then brightens. I think a lot of people may conclude there is a problem with the light. So basically Icon should sell this as a feature and not try to hide it from the consumer.

I find it interesting the ramp down rate is exactly the same. This tells me he probably did testing to find out how fast you could ramp down the power without it being noticed. I am inclined to believe that this is a stroke of genius but it is not a feature that I would want personally.


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## drifthat (Feb 11, 2009)

well, it's rumored that SF doesn't hire any marketing researcher or consultant. I guess that is why the lights get the poor regulation...

I don't think this light would catch mainstream's interests while it is still a little bit expensive (compare to Maglite etc).


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 11, 2009)

I wonder what a runtime plot would like like with the Rogue 1 being hand held? Holding part of the head be important as we can't access the main body part due to the elevated flats around the light. We need to rule out heat as a contributor to the drop off in power after 10 minutes or so. 

Bill


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## Kiessling (Feb 11, 2009)

Thanx Tohuwabohu !

Very interesting. I think this is really great. It prolongs battery life for the average consumer who won't even notice it usually. It is a daring move though I think.

A real innovation.


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## f22shift (Feb 11, 2009)

the runtime graph of the icon looks like the alkaline on the fenix.
perhaps this was designed to maximize runtime or brightness with an alkaline which can't handle a high drain for a long period.


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## 65535 (Feb 12, 2009)

f22shift said:


> the runtime graph of the icon looks like the alkaline on the fenix.
> perhaps this was designed to maximize runtime or brightness with an alkaline which can't handle a high drain for a long period.



That's exactly what it was designed for.


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## qip (Feb 12, 2009)

then why not set it to a level between medium and high for flat regulation...otherwise whats the purpose of a low level to conserve runtime for the common buyer


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 12, 2009)

f22shift said:


> the runtime graph of the icon looks like the alkaline on the fenix.
> perhaps this was designed to maximize runtime or brightness with an alkaline which can't handle a high drain for a long period.



Yes, I think you are right. I have been playing around with my Rogue 1 which arrived today. It pretty much does the same 10 minute run and then drop off in output, but if you turn it off and then on it will start up and maintain at a higher level and continue for another 10 minutes or so. To achieve 50 lumens with one alkaline AA, and I think that the Rogue 1 is doing that based on my comparisons with some of my other lights using bounce with lightmeter, there is quite a drain on the alkaline AA, probably 2 amps or so. PK, or someone, must have figured that people use a flashlight in 10 minute cycles or less, and these people can be assured that when they restart their Rogue 1 that there will be plenty of light available.

These cycles are not a problem with me, now that I know through reading this thread and from actual experience, and it is sort of neat. However, I will be using NiMh's in my Rogue 1 to optomize the many 10 minute cycles available.

The low mode works just fine and maintaines constant output for some time. I did not do an extended runtime at the low mode but it is consistant for the 40 minutes or so that I did time it. I will do more runtimes later, but I think the low mode is very solid.

Bill


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 12, 2009)

I just use this light on low with a clear waterbottle cap as a diffuser for reading and room navigation. 
Didn't notice any dimming while doing this but I was paying more attention to the book honestly. 

Don't think I've done 10 minutes on high yet.:tinfoil: So many lights, so little time.


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## AMD64Blondie (Feb 13, 2009)

Another question: are the 50 lumens on the Rogue 1 "Surefire lumens" (i.e.,underrated?) What do you think it's actually putting out?


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## deusexaethera (Feb 13, 2009)

I like the way the Icon Rogue looks in green, but it's just not bright enough for its size, and the rails strike me as useless. Something like the drilled and knurled blocks on PhotonFanatic's little tasklight are pretty and also useful, but this...I dunno. I have less-expensive lights that are smaller and brighter and I don't have to worry about damaging them.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 13, 2009)

AMD64Blondie said:


> Another question: are the 50 lumens on the Rogue 1 "Surefire lumens" (i.e.,underrated?) What do you think it's actually putting out?



I would say yes. I used bounce with lightmeter (I know I should be using an IS, but don't have one) comparing the Rogue 1 to other lights and their output, and I think, guestimate, that the output is about 50 lumens.

The Rogue 1 is a very interesting light, and I am liking it more and more. As I usually do when I purchase a new light, I use it exclusively for awhile for all of my tasks, forgoing use of other lights. It is doing very well in that role. Using NiMh's right now, but will be running Alkalines later, as I want to see how they hold up under constant running on low. On low there is no drop off after 10 minutes like the high setting, and low is certainly bright enough to do tasks at night with little or no ambient light. 

Bill


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## AMD64Blondie (Feb 13, 2009)

Just received my new Icon Rogue 1 hot off of the UPS truck.I've only had it out of the package for a few minutes,but I'm already hooked!!
Quite startling how bright it is on both high and low. Can't wait to take our yellow Lab Alfie out for a walk tonight to test out my new Icon.


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## fredb (Feb 13, 2009)

Received mine about a week ago. It's a fine light for house-hold use. Only one complaint--the fins are kind of sharp. I have managed more than once to catch the flesh of where my palm meets my fingers inside of them while holding it with my hand wrapped fully around it. No blood to speak of, but I do worry if I were to fall or make contact with something in just the right way that a nasty cut could result.

Any one else observe this?


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 14, 2009)

Which one do you have? My Rogue 1 presents no such problem. Depends on hand size, maybe?

Bill


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## AMD64Blondie (Feb 15, 2009)

Just took our yellow Lab,Alfie,for a walk last night.(I needed a excuse to test my new ICON Rogue 1..). Quite a useful light. I'm rather impressed.The dual modes(high and low) are very easy to use.Startlingly bright on high.

While this won't replace my Arc AAA GS for EDC..(It's a little too big for easy pants pocket carry.)..I think I've found my new walking light.


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## ZMZ67 (Feb 15, 2009)

I think I will be in for at least one of these lights.The unique styling with a protruding switch appeals to me.The profile of this light is similar to the INOVA T1,one of my favorite designs.The ICON also seems to offer some hope for using alkalines.The larger size combined with the aformentioned protruding switch should make for a nice utility light.Will probably have to get two as my wife will likely confiscate one for herself.


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## fredb (Feb 15, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Which one do you have? My Rogue 1 presents no such problem. Depends on hand size, maybe?



I have the Rogue 1. I think my hands are pretty much average.


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## Nyctophiliac (Feb 15, 2009)

I also like the light but found the fins too sharp and scary. I did actually catch the edge of my palm with one and recieved a little paper cut type nick with it.
I was also worried about the edges cutting into the lanyard supplied, which I really really like and it is now adorning my Fenix L1T V2.0.

But I came up with a solution that elevates the Rogue 1 considerably in my affections...I wrapped it!








It's incredible what a yard or two of paracord can do to the new greenie!











The wrapping was quick to do, quite fun, in the way those mundane tasks like sewing on a button are, and makes the light much more hand friendly for me. Very comfortable and hefty. If I want to use it with a lanyard, I can thread one through the wrap before re-securing it. In fact I think I will be able to easily attach a belt clip to it like this too!

A very decent light, I like the regenerating performance type regulation mentioned here in this thread. I may have to stump up for the Rogue 2AA version as well.

Happy now?


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## Size15's (Feb 15, 2009)

My hands don't catch on the open architecture - I guess it depends on your hands and skin...

Nyctophiliac,
I like the wrap. In fact I've wrapped my Rouge 1 but used a different threading pattern as it retains more of the triangular cross-section that I find ergonomic.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 15, 2009)

Size15's said:


> My hands don't catch on the open architecture - I guess it depends on your hands and skin...
> 
> Nyctophiliac,
> I like the wrap. In fact I've wrapped my Rouge 1 but used a different threading pattern as it retains more of the triangular cross-section that I find ergonomic.



Pics?

Bill


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## Size15's (Feb 15, 2009)

...working on getting them uploaded.


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## Tempest UK (Feb 15, 2009)

Size15s - can I conclude from your avatar that you have a red ICON light? 

Regards,
Tempest


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## Size15's (Feb 15, 2009)

The wonders of photoshop...


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## ZMZ67 (Feb 15, 2009)

Nyctophiliac said:


> I also like the light but found the fins too sharp and scary. I did actually catch the edge of my palm with one and recieved a little paper cut type nick with it.
> I was also worried about the edges cutting into the lanyard supplied, which I really really like and it is now adorning my Fenix L1T V2.0.
> 
> But I came up with a solution that elevates the Rogue 1 considerably in my affections...I wrapped it!
> ...


 
Nice job! I was just thinking that this design is begging for a paracord wrap when I posted earlier.Interested in seeing Size 15's wrap myself and wondering what greenLED or Stormdrane would do.


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## toby_pra (Feb 16, 2009)

Very nice pics...i like the design!


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## Nyctophiliac (Feb 16, 2009)

Talking of wraps, I'm sending off to get some GITD paracord for my next Rogue!! Grippy and glowy, who could ask for anything more?


Hey, I'm a wrapper!! :devil:


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## Tempest UK (Feb 16, 2009)

Really cool idea, I think I might have to get some paracord for my Rogue 1...

Regards,
Tempest


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## Grox (Feb 17, 2009)

I like it Nyctophiliac. Neat wrap and great functionality.


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## selfbuilt (Feb 18, 2009)

My Rogue 1 arrived yesterday afternoon - been undergoing detailed testing ever since. I'm pushing this one through quickly, and should have my preliminary review up by tomorrow night. 

Just finished analyzing a batch of runtime data, and results are very similar to what Tohuwabohu reported. I'll provide some blow-up graphs of key transition points - interesting step patterns. And of course, comparisons to other 1AA lights.

Don't mean to be a tease, but I'm off to bed - all will be posted tomorrow. :wave:


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## StarHalo (Feb 19, 2009)

Size15's said:


> The wonders of photoshop...



You should definitely show PK your handiwork, the red is notably more eye-catching than the green..


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 19, 2009)

I wrapped mine in orange paracord. Really stands out nice on the green light!


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## Size15's (Feb 19, 2009)

StarHalo said:


> You should definitely show PK your handiwork, the red is notably more eye-catching than the green..


I wonder where my sigline image is being hosted? :thinking:


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## ZMZ67 (Feb 19, 2009)

Received my two ICON Rogue1s on Tuesday,shipping is fast from Brightguy when you live in Northern Ohio  As I expected the ergonomics are great,fills the hand and the large switch is easy to use.About the same length as my INOVA T1 but a little larger in diameter.Should work nicely in a coat or cargo pocket but it is a little large for EDC IMO. Fit and finish is excellent.
Brighter than I expected and very nice beam quality.No CREE rings! Looking forward to selfbuilt's review.This may be one of the best lights for alkaline AAs if the unusual regulation proves to be consistent.


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## GarageBoy (Feb 19, 2009)

I hope Icon advertises the runtime *issue* somewhere. Of course, i think runtime graphs/regulation should me written on the package.

I wonder how many guys got rid of their MiniMag LEDs


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## Size15's (Feb 19, 2009)

GarageBoy said:


> I hope Icon advertises the runtime *issue* somewhere. Of course, i think runtime graphs/regulation should me written on the package.
> 
> I wonder how many guys got rid of their MiniMag LEDs


Perhaps it is only an issue because it was discovered to be different?

If anything is 'needed' I don't think it need be anything more than
'this flashlight features electronic regulation that optimises the output so that you get the most from the batteries.'


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 19, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Perhaps it is only an issue because it was discovered to be different?
> 
> If anything is 'needed' I don't think it need be anything more than
> 'this flashlight features electronic regulation that optimises the output so that you get the most from the batteries.'



:thumbsup:

I am having no problems with the different regulation of my Rogue 1 in day to day use. To me it is a non issue. I have been using it exclusively as my edc since I received it, something I do with all of my new smaller portable lights to sort of wring them out, so to speak.

Bill


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## Flying Turtle (Feb 19, 2009)

I'm wondering if it will really start showing up in local stores (Walmart, Lowes, Target, etc.)soon, or if it's essentially just being market tested now via online specialty. I would assume that's true, but who knows. Of course, I'm looking for the lowest price, and am willing to wait for now. Not too long, I hope, but I guess the state of the economy isn't helping.

Geoff


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## selfbuilt (Feb 19, 2009)

My detailed Rogue 1 review is now up:

ICON Rogue 1xAA Review: RUNTIMES, ANALYSIS, BEAMSHOTS and more! 

My thanks for all the discussions here and in the other Rogue threads. I especially appreciate the runtime data first supplied by Tohuwabohu. This was all very useful in helping develop my testing paradigm for this light.


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## EngrPaul (Feb 20, 2009)

I wonder what size TRITIUM vials will fit in there. 

What size does Wal*Mart use in their EXIT signs? 



65535 said:


>


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 21, 2009)

Another good feature of the Rogue 1 I noticed yesterday. Removing the head to replace batteries on a flashlight sort of throws me off sometimes, as I want to place a battery into a battery tube with the + end of the battery facing toward the front of the tube. So I did that yesterday and screwed the head back on and no light. Of course I had inserted the battery in wrong being used to inserting a battery from the tail end of most lights, like SF's. What I liked is that my error did not result in the LED or circuity frying. It has reverse polarity protection. At least mechanical reverse polarity protection, as the battery contact in the head is recessed.

Bill


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## RobertM (Feb 27, 2009)

65535 said:


> :twothumbs
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What is the PK light on the far left?

Also, can it tailstand on its switch? It's hard to tell from the pic--it looks like it might be a bit wobbly?

-Robert


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## Size15's (Feb 27, 2009)

It's a body and TailCap most likely from one of PK's Experimental Flashlights (PKEF). It's the same as the U2/K2 body with the K2 two-stage TailCap


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## RobertM (Feb 28, 2009)

Size15's said:


> It's a body and TailCap most likely from one of PK's Experimental Flashlights (PKEF). It's the same as the U2/K2 body with the K2 two-stage TailCap



Thanks for the info Al!

-Robert


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## Metatron (Mar 7, 2009)

well u cant go past flashlight reviews.com on this one, but hey each to his own:shakehead


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## Braddah_Bill (Apr 11, 2009)

Well I put my Icon through a real world test over the last couple of days and I will say that it not only passed with flying colors but my son won't give it back to me.

I went shore fishing (at night) with my son and brought my icon 1AA along to see how it would work out. After using it for awhile I handed it to my son and told him to put the lanyard around his neck - after showing him how well thought out the lanyard system was, and to just drop it in his top pocket till he needed it. He runs with a small headlight but often said it wasn't bright enough for some tasks, but doesn't want to carry a big light in his pocket, as he likes to keep things at a minimum (surf shorts, tee shirt, and slippers - what do you expect for Hawaii).

My son walked a little ways down the pier and I could see the Icon light up to spot fish near the bank, light up to change and redo tackle, spot stuff around him, signal me to get my attention. All tasks were under 5 minutes but I did notice the light being used more and more as the night went on.

I have tried to give my some a number of lights to try out and they have always been returned with "It's nice but....." The Icon was the first light that he said, "This is what I need, it's perfect, can I keep it?" :twothumbs Success, I was able to find a light for a very picky non-flashaholic.

Now I'm off to order a replacement for me. 



Bill


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## bxstylez (Apr 11, 2009)

where's everyone getting their Icon Rouge from?

google doesnt show anything besides leather jackets

.


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## Burgess (Apr 11, 2009)

bxstylez said:


> where's everyone getting their Icon *Rouge* from?
> 
> google doesnt show anything besides leather jackets
> 
> .


 


Probably 'cuz it's Icon *Rogue* !




_


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 11, 2009)

Had me going. Thought it was a new color for Icon. :thinking:

Bill


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## bxstylez (Apr 11, 2009)

Burgess said:


> Probably 'cuz it's Icon *Rogue* !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lolsign: i'm an idiot

.


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## Sigman (Apr 12, 2009)

Braddah_Bill said:


> ...Now I'm off to order a replacement for me.
> Bill


BB is your son a flashaholic? If not...keep the "PK" version & give him the replacement...brand new in the package, all his!

"PK" version...all yours. :thinking:


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## Braddah_Bill (Apr 12, 2009)

Aloha Sigman,


I could only wish I had a PK version, I did not enter the giveaway cause after winning the Lunasol 20 I wanted to sit one out (giveaway). 

The Icon is a great light as most real life tasks, for me, often takes less than 10 minutes and if you really take a hard look at peoples habits while using a light, it will be turning the light on, looking at what ever they need to fix then setting it down, still on, for the next 15 to 20 minutes while fixing what ever they need to repair.

The Icon is a keeper for me  



Braddah_Bill




Sigman said:


> BB is your son a flashaholic? If not...keep the "PK" version & give him the replacement...brand new in the package, all his!
> 
> "PK" version...all yours. :thinking:


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## dandism (Apr 18, 2010)

Has anyone managed to get the pill out of the head?


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## T45 (Sep 23, 2011)

Thread Bump. Has anyone managed to disassemble theirs yet? without destroying it of course. I would like to know if I could replace the plastic lense? Put my new Icon Rogue I in my pants cargo pocket and that plastic lense got scratched up enough to leave a faint shadow on the beam against a white wall. Annoying.


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## jondotcom (Jan 27, 2012)

T45 said:


> Thread Bump. Has anyone managed to disassemble theirs yet? without destroying it of course. I would like to know if I could replace the plastic lense? Put my new Icon Rogue I in my pants cargo pocket and that plastic lense got scratched up enough to leave a faint shadow on the beam against a white wall. Annoying.



I have the exact same question. Anyone know if the lens is the same as the solarforce or other lights?


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## T45 (Aug 12, 2012)

Just bought my second Rogue 2 and there are 2 exterior aspects that have been changed. The most noticeable of the 2 is there are now 3 shallow scallops behind the bezel, at the top of the body, offset from the machined flats. I don't care for that and will be looking to get an original version. The other aspect changed is the groove on the bezel has been changed from a semi circular groove to a more angled type, like what you see on the type 2 Surefire M3 bezel. Not much of a difference to me, but I definitely liked the styling of original model more. All other aspects are the same. Icon no longer ships the Icon with a lanyard. A pity since that lanyard was a great design. I have had no luck in trying to find out where the clip for the lanyard was made. That clip alone would be a profitable item if it was placed for sale. 

I have seen the Icon Rogues, 1 & 2, at really great prices lately. I wish they would come with glass lenses and a better reflector, but that would more likely raise their price. As noted previously, they make great gifts for friends and family. If you know someone with one of those cheap plastic D cell incan lights that are more likely to fall apart than anything else, get them a Icon Rogue. It's Easy to use, easy UI to understand and powered be readily available and cheap AAs.


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