# SureFire E1B Backup



## Riddick (Jan 16, 2008)

5 and 80 lumens , 37 hr runtime sweet oo:


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## koala (Jan 16, 2008)

It seems that Surefire has caught up with digital? multimode flashlight?

Link to pic - (HOTLINKING not allowed IAW CPF Rules)


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## Riddick (Jan 16, 2008)

Black HA


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## greenLED (Jan 16, 2008)

Hubba-hubba-hubba!!
 
Two stage clicky!!!! 



> FEATURES
> Virtually indestructible, dual-output light emitting diode has no filament to burn out or break; lasts for thousands of hours
> Total Internal Reflection (TIR) lens creates a flawless, bright beam with plenty of reach and enough surround beam to accommodate peripheral vision
> Coated Pyrex® window protects the lens and LED and maximizes light transmission
> ...


...and it's HA-BK


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## Wicho (Jan 16, 2008)

Whoa! Melikes! Mewants!

Looks like a great EDC that won't tear up your pockets.

Where's the linky link to more info on it?


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## Ty_Bower (Jan 16, 2008)

Dunno. CPF search finds nothing on this E1B. Google finds nothing.

Maybe it's a Photoshop forgery?

edit: Nevermind. I see greenLED has already found it on Surefire's web site. I guess it must be real.

edit edit: They should have put the clip on the other direction, so you can clip it to your baseball cap. I wonder how it changes modes?


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## koala (Jan 16, 2008)

Click on the image or greenLED's link.



Ty_Bower said:


> Dunno. CPF search finds nothing on this E1B. Google finds nothing.
> 
> Maybe it's a Photoshop forgery?


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## Riddick (Jan 16, 2008)

When do you guys think this will be available?


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## Wicho (Jan 16, 2008)

Man, that L1 Cree sure cleans up well. Looks like a great alternative for those who want something sleeker and more dressed up.

Me - I definitely want to play with one.


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## p1fiend (Jan 16, 2008)

$110:duh2::thumbsdow

This light would be my first Surefire, but not for that price. That light is NOT worth more than $70 tops, and that is stretching it.

There is no reason why it should be that much money.

Except for the fact that people will pay that much.

This stinks. I really like everything about the light. The look, the design, the smoothness, the outputs, the runtime, the clickie, and especially the pocket-clip, but I just can't get over the price.


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## greenLED (Jan 16, 2008)

p1fiend said:


> $110:duh2::thumbsdow
> 
> This light would be my first Surefire, but not for that price. That light is NOT worth more than $70 tops, and that is stretching it.
> 
> ...


...aaaand here it goes again... :shakehead

Would you guys give it a rest with the SF price bashing? The light's not even out, you have no clue as to how much it costs to develop, produce, and market that light.

*Have you ever heard of a 2 stage clicky, with the addition of momentary on at both levels!!!? :hairpull:*

SF lights are what they are, price and all. Don't like it? Buy a Mag or run to DX.

Sorry, guys, but this attitude is beyond ridiculous. :thumbsdow

[/rant]


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## p1fiend (Jan 16, 2008)

greenLED said:


> ...aaaand here it goes again... :shakehead
> 
> Would you guys give it a rest with the SF price bashing? The light's not even out, you have no clue as to how much it costs to develop, produce, and market that light.
> 
> [/rant]


 
Not really bashing SF, it's a nice light and I give them credit, I like the light a lot. 

But I just think this light, and even other lights from other Manufacturers, have been over priced. It just seems that people here are willing to pay lots of $$$ for lights. The average cost of a Cree or similar LED light has sky rocketed over the past year, there's no denying that. Manufacturers raise their prices a little, we pay, they raise them again, we pay, and it just keeps getting higher and higher. Just a bummer:sigh: for those that don't have money to throw at every new light (though it is hard not to: damn you CPF!!!)


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## rtt (Jan 16, 2008)

Ty_Bower said:


> Dunno. CPF search finds nothing on this E1B. Google finds nothing.
> 
> edit edit: They should have put the clip on the other direction, so you can clip it to your baseball cap. I wonder how it changes modes?


 
If you take a close look at the clip design, you can see that it can be used on a cap also. Great clip design that lets you have the light lens up or down


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## bray (Jan 16, 2008)

personally, i think its a winner besides from having "backup" written on it. but thats just me, not a fan of random words on my lights,, like "strong light" or "backup" haaaa


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## tussery (Jan 16, 2008)

Cool to see something like that come out of Surefire. Maybe we will be getting two stage clicky tailcaps for the A2 and Kroma in the future.

Edit: After reading the description of how it works most likely wont get two stage clickies for the A2 or Kroma.


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## koala (Jan 16, 2008)

bray said:


> personally, i think its a winner besides from having "backup" written on it. but thats just me, not a fan of random words on my lights,, like "strong light" or "backup" haaaa



Like this you mean?


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## thermal guy (Jan 16, 2008)

SF charges so much for there lights not because they know people will pay it They simply know that people will pay that much for a great light that you can trust to work for you every time.


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## greenLED (Jan 16, 2008)

p1fiend, sorry if my rant came after your posting - it's not really directed at you, but at the general trend I keep noticing.

I don't think their prices are any higher than any other top quality tool. In that sense, price is not an issue. However, I can't just go out and buy one or two every 3 or 6 months. I've had to save to buy each of the SF's I own. But, I have patience, think it's worthwhile my time and effort to wait while I save enough money to get a good quality tool. People see things differently and have a right to voice their opinions and discontent (regardless of whether I think it gets old or not).

Again, sorry for the rant.


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## gswitter (Jan 16, 2008)

Nice. :thumbsup:

Wish it was programmed Low->High (could be the perfect around-the-house light) instead of High->Low, but it's pretty obvious who the target market is, and the setting make sense for them.


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## bray (Jan 16, 2008)

koala,,, hahahahahhaha man that made me laugh


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## gswitter (Jan 16, 2008)

koala said:


> Like this you mean?


, but you forgot the bezel decoration.


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## p1fiend (Jan 16, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> SF charges so much for there lights not because they know people will pay it They simply know that people will pay that much for a great light that you can trust to work for you every time.


 
I hate to be the only negative one in this thread, but after reading multiple threads about SF tailcap clickies and failures, I would be very hesistant about a new 2 stage clicky when people still have problems with normal ones.


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## mtrunner (Jan 16, 2008)

gswitter said:


> Nice. :thumbsup:
> 
> Wish it was programmed Low->High (could be the perfect around-the-house light) instead of High->Low, but it's pretty obvious who the target market is, and the setting make sense for them.


I agree...I find a light much more useful when it comes on low first.


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## koala (Jan 16, 2008)

+2

How would you like your Hi-Fi/TV speakers come up at MAX VOLUME every time you turn it on? How about your ipod headphones? High first is dumb.

How about this...


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## stitch_paradox (Jan 16, 2008)

No price yet?? How come it says on the surefire website that it's $110? Is that the final price or it might still go up? I hope someone would do a comparison review of this with the L1. 

About the Surefire price, just put it like this: Mercedez Benz and Hyundais' are both cars, both have great features, but sometimes you just have to get the more expensive one to spoil yourself... why? because you deserve it!:nana:


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## zven (Jan 16, 2008)

Overall, looks like a pretty nice light. I kind of doubt I'll be owning one anytime soon (read: anytime soon after they're released), but looks nice nevertheless.

What I like is that it adds an option in the SureFire line that has smooth, sleek lines without much to catch or wear on clothes. Also, the output and runtimes are about perfect, especially for a 1-cell light. Add the black HA and good clip design (both bezel-up and bezel-down... why did no one, or at least I, never think of that before...), and it shapes up pretty well.

What I don't care for, however, is the tail switch. I do generally prefer clickies over twisties, all other things equal. And I guess it's cool that SureFire is now offering a 2-stage clicky. But what I've always liked about SureFire is that they have some of the best, no-nonsense, simple-as-can-be switching mechanisms. Other lights have been cool with all their modes and levels and such, but the beauty of a SureFire (to me) is that you just press it, and it goes on, exactly as you would expect it to, without having to put any thought into it. When using a flashlight, I don't want to have to explicitly call from memory every time exactly what I need to do to get another mode, or how long I need to wait before I can get back to the first mode again. I suppose I may be exaggerating this point a bit, but the Backup nevertheless seems to approach the realm of over-complicated multimode UI's.

And I must say, my immediate impression of the price was quite the opposite of the comment above. I was actually somewhat suprised at how INexpensive it is. I mean, the other lights in the SF line that come close in functionality and form to this one are the L1 and E1L, which are $135 and $99, respectively. Now, given that the Backup has a fairly powerful LED in it, and that it has 2 levels of output, I would expect the light to at least be around the $135 mark. Add to that the fact that they have a new, 2-stage, clicky tailcap, and I was expecting even a touch more expensive than the L1. But I digress...

Bottom line, it looks nice, with great form factor and perfect levels of brightness (would love to know whether the beam is designed more for flood or throw), but the switching mechanism is disappointing in its complexity (even if it is a lot simpler than most multi-mode lights out there). My hope, therefore, is that SureFire will offer a simple, twisty alternative, such as the A2/L1/L2 switch.

One last note... Is it just me, or does this light have no lock-out possibility for the tail cap?


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## digitaleos (Jan 16, 2008)

I agree with you guys that low first is usually best for EDC, but this light is designed for LEO's, and don't forget they already have the L1 which comes on low first. 

Chris









mtrunner said:


> I agree...I find a light much more useful when it comes on low first.


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## p1fiend (Jan 16, 2008)

gswitter said:


> Wish it was programmed Low->High (could be the perfect around-the-house light) instead of High->Low


 
Agreed, I glossed over this at first. Another bummer. Maybe there will be a way to switch it around?


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## matrixshaman (Jan 16, 2008)

p1fiend said:


> Not really bashing SF, it's a nice light and I give them credit, I like the light a lot.
> 
> But I just think this light, and even other lights from other Manufacturers, have been over priced. It just seems that people here are willing to pay lots of $$$ for lights. The average cost of a Cree or similar LED light has sky rocketed over the past year, there's no denying that. Manufacturers raise their prices a little, we pay, they raise them again, we pay, and it just keeps getting higher and higher. Just a bummer:sigh: for those that don't have money to throw at every new light (though it is hard not to: damn you CPF!!!)



How many of those other lights that you are talking about offer a 10 year Warranty? It also seems we have noticed opposite trends in pricing. It seems this has more features for an SF and lower pricing than most of their line of LED lights. And others elsewhere seem to me to be getting cheaper and cheaper as more competition moves in - especially from China where quality is getting better and prices are getting lower. Some of CPF's favorite brands have moved _down_ in price. I know it is frustrating to want something that is priced out of your reach but making statements like this is not going to drive Surefire to lower their prices. You will probably see street prices on this after a while about 10 to 15% less.


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## Wicho (Jan 16, 2008)

How about "Strong Backup Light"? 



bray said:


> personally, i think its a winner besides from having "backup" written on it. but thats just me, not a fan of random words on my lights,, like "strong light" or "backup" haaaa


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## tussery (Jan 16, 2008)

Read the description of how the clicky works guys, it is not a two stage clicky switch it is just like changing modes on a Fenix and the electronics too change stages are in the head not the switch.


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## gottawearshades (Jan 16, 2008)

right now, if I could!


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## gswitter (Jan 16, 2008)

zven said:


> What I don't care for, however, is the tail switch. I do generally prefer clickies over twisties, all other things equal. And I guess it's cool that SureFire is now offering a 2-stage clicky. But what I've always liked about SureFire is that they have some of the best, no-nonsense, simple-as-can-be switching mechanisms. Other lights have been cool with all their modes and levels and such, but the beauty of a SureFire (to me) is that you just press it, and it goes on, exactly as you would expect it to, without having to put any thought into it. When using a flashlight, I don't want to have to explicitly call from memory every time exactly what I need to do to get another mode, or how long I need to wait before I can get back to the first mode again. I suppose I may be exaggerating this point a bit, but the Backup nevertheless seems to approach the realm of over-complicated multimode UI's.


Since they mention a time limit for switching to low, I assume the 2-stage mechanism is part of the converter, and the tailcap is a standard, forward, momentary clicky. Might even be the same mechanism as the Z57/Z61. That's fine with me.


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## Manzerick (Jan 16, 2008)

ahhh... a true Backup light


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## greenLED (Jan 16, 2008)

tussery said:


> R...it is not a two stage clicky switch




My bad. That was me calling it that way - couldn't find something more sensible to describe it after I read the description of how it works. The SF description says it's a "two stage _switch_". 

Anywhoooo... I envy those who're going to have a chance to play with it at SHOT.


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## ernsanada (Jan 16, 2008)

koala said:


> +2
> 
> How would you like your Hi-Fi/TV speakers come up at MAX VOLUME every time you turn it on? How about your ipod headphones? High first is dumb.
> 
> How about this...


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## Gimpy00Wang (Jan 16, 2008)

Me wants. I think I'll get two!

- Chris


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## Ty_Bower (Jan 16, 2008)

tussery said:


> ...it is not a two stage clicky switch it is just like changing modes on a Fenix...



That's what I was thinking. Judging by the name (and the photo), I'm betting the head is compatible with E series bodies, too. I wonder if it will be possible to buy just the head - although somehow I doubt it. How is this going to impact sales of the L1?

Sorry I didn't notice the clip could be used in either direction. Thanks to whomever pointed that out to me.

Is it just me, or does this almost seem like Surefire's response to the Novatac T series lights?


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## Riddick (Jan 16, 2008)

That 37 hour runtime at 5 lumens sounds really good to me. (I really like the 1.1 lumen 90 hr on the older L1)

And that 80 lumens for, what I guess is gonna be 1 hr 20 min, man . . . . its like they tried to take a page out of Milkyspits playbook. I don't know, I want a Milky L1, hopefully soon.

But this light looks real sweet and these SureFire guys look like they're trying hard to put out some fine lights. As far as price goes, I got feeling this took some work to achieve. A little over a C-note, I'll save up for one without a doubt, SureFiire quality is unsurpassed


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## GreySave (Jan 16, 2008)

Aw heck! And I've been so good about not buying any lights lately. That little guy looks sweet. Resistance is futile..........


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## Riddick (Jan 16, 2008)

Resistance is futile 

In this case

Absolutely!!

Maybe that Size 15's guy can tell us when she's due out . . . I mean he has all the SureFire poop. Right?


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## DuckhunterInTN (Jan 16, 2008)

I'll buy one for sure. It looks to be a great design.


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## Bort (Jan 16, 2008)

It looks great.This is definately going to be my next light


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## Daylo (Jan 16, 2008)

Sweeeet!! My next light as well.


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## Size15's (Jan 16, 2008)

Riddick said:


> Maybe that Size 15's guy can tell us when she's due out . . . I mean he has all the SureFire poop. Right?


Nobody can tell you when the E1B is going to be released with any certainty. We know this because release dates shift around.
_Your_ friendly CPF-supporting SureFire Dealer can tell you when SureFire ship the E1B's to him and this should give you an indication on when you'll get yours in hand.

IMHO it hasn't been released until you can buy one and you're holding it in your hand.

Just a comment on the two-way PocketClip - SureFire have been working on this concept for years... 

Regarding the switch UI - I think it's best to try it before passing judgement.
From my perspective I'm still EDC'ing the L1 - I'm very used to the switch and UI. I'm not a fan of clickie switches.


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## LukeA (Jan 16, 2008)

Size15's said:


> Just a comment on the two-way PocketClip - SureFire have been working on this concept for years...



Exactly how many iterations can a piece of spring steel go through? I do like it though. 

I still prefer the E2L to this light for backup purposes. I should buy an E2L someday. I should say that my backup circumstances would be pretty dire and not EDC-related.

Basically, this thing's a Surefire Amilite T5, as far as I can tell...


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## magic_elf (Jan 16, 2008)

LOL! They took years in their "R&D" to work on a 2 way pocket clip?
I wanna work in that department


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## bigfoot (Jan 16, 2008)

This is very frustrating...

Just as I thought my SF collection was about perfect, with an E1L, G2, and a 6PL, Surefire had to release this great looking E1B.

Will it ever end? Geez!!!


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## Riddick (Jan 16, 2008)

Well I would guess within 6 months or so? 

I wasn't trying to hold your feet to the fire on this one, I figured you would have a better guess than myself.

Thanks


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## Bernhard (Jan 16, 2008)

I don't really like the look of this light. It looks cheap compared to the design of other SF light. The smaller front also looks ugly IMHO. Although I haven't see this light in person, this is my first impression just by looking at the picture. I don't like the word "Backup" either. It contribute to cheaper looks of the light.
Clever clip design, though...


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## Size15's (Jan 16, 2008)

Riddick said:


> Well I would guess within 6 months or so?
> 
> I wasn't trying to hold your feet to the fire on this one, I figured you would have a better guess than myself.
> 
> Thanks


I gave up trying to keep up with guessing release dates years ago. Anyway I'm not really that bothered when the new products get released. They'll be released when they're released! Plenty of other things to be getting on with once you've asked your SureFire Dealer to send you one. Hopefully it'll surprise you when it arrives because you weren't worrying about it.

Al


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## Dogbyte (Jan 16, 2008)

I’m happy to see that so far the discussion has primarily been about the light itself – its features and purpose. I’m so tired of Surefire threads that end up with the Surefire haters raging on-and-on about the price and lack of technology, and at the same time the “I’ll bet my life on it” crowd chimes in as if a Surefire can never fail and every other light is guaranteed too!

The price is the price; I’ll make up my own mind about whether it is worth it to me and assume that it isn’t worth it to those who don’t buy it. Don’t see the purpose in a lot of discussion about it. 

Don’t plan to, or expect to have to bet my life on any light, but for those that need and use Surefire tactical lights this seems to be ideal for exactly what it is intended for – a backup. Many of the Surefire lights are still incandescent – and still the best option for their intended purpose – but it just makes sense to carry a backup for an incandescent light that can be clipped within reach and deployed quicker than changing a lamp assembly or batteries. As a backup for a tactical user it makes sense to have an 80 lumen high first, and a long running low for paperwork, map-reading, etc. For my non-tactical purposes I’d like to see the same or similar light with the same clip in a low-high configuration.

The clip is fantastic – so simple once you see it!


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## AWGD8 (Jan 16, 2008)

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/...-Beam-Diffuser

Check this link this diffuser can fit in a Surefire E2O ? is this also a new light coming? Surefire E2O ?


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## tussery (Jan 16, 2008)

AWGD8 said:


> http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/...-Beam-Diffuser
> 
> Check this link this diffuser can fit in a Surefire E2O ? is this also a new light coming? Surefire E2O ?


No the E2O was an older model E2 Outdoorsman that came with the MN02 installed.


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## zven (Jan 16, 2008)

gswitter said:


> Since they mention a time limit for switching to low, I assume the 2-stage mechanism is part of the converter, and the tailcap is a standard, forward, momentary clicky. Might even be the same mechanism as the Z57/Z61. That's fine with me.



Yeah, thinking about it like that, it probably is integrated into the light further than just having the stuff in the tail cap. And if that's true, it probably explains why it didn't cost as much as I expected. After all, it can cost that much more to program chips in a new way, especially compared to designing and setting up production for a whole new piece of physical hardware like the tailcap. (Especially something that's going to be frequently replaced, as SF clickies seem to be known for... I've had a 2 for 2 failure rate on mine.)

In the end, though, it does seem like it will excel at its intended purpose: backup. I think the L1 is more my cup of tea, but the 80/5 lumens levels are so tempting...


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## NotRegulated (Jan 16, 2008)

An E1B? I never saw this one coming.


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## jeffb (Jan 16, 2008)

Very interesting light..........with the L1 and Titan, Surefire must believe that smaller 1 cell LED lights have merit in the "professional" market.

If one believes it is over-priced, under engineered or prone to issues, why would you buy? (perhaps you have a very high opinion of the value of your opinion and like to hear yourself speak??)

It would seem that if one hasn't touched or seen one and if numerous haven't used for a period of time to evaluate..........then to opine about too high a price and problems is simply trolling.......please buy something else, as all that you do is show your ignorance regarding the "business" of Manufacturer's. (Not to mention, Engineering, Manufacturing, Process Control, Quality Control, Sales, Marketing, Management and Financial issues)

Obviously, a forum is for those to express an opinion, but the continued posts that are simply IMO ridiculous are persistent regarding Surefire.

I would venture to say that Surefire has not intended CPF as the "prime" market for this or ANY of their offerings and it is amazing(to me) that any member, sight unseen would bash and complain about a Manufacturer that happens to be a leader in their industry, particularly if you really like hand held lighting????

Perhaps reading this forum and possessing a few flashlights makes one an expert in the field?? (Personally, I wonder if ANY that express these sentiments have ever Engineered, Manufactured, Designed, Sold or been involved in ANY aspect of Manufacturing of ANY product, ESPECIALLY a flashlight?)

jeffb



p1fiend said:


> $110:duh2::thumbsdow
> 
> This light would be my first Surefire, but not for that price. That light is NOT worth more than $70 tops, and that is stretching it.
> 
> ...


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## Crenshaw (Jan 16, 2008)

Im sorry, but this light was created already, its called a P2D...:duck:

i just had to say that...:devil:


But really, whats so great about this light? 
1. Foward clicky (it better damn well be)
2.Clip
3.Surefire
4.TIR (depends on preference)
5. Surefire grade alluminium.

What is wierd -
1. Looks cheap, as Bernhard points out, it looks like a "chinese style" as people are fond of saying here, that has random words like Police,stronglight, and *gasp* backup?whyyyy

2.People are gonna start complaining about the lack of knurling, cos it wont be grippy enough,and dont tell me the lack of knurling is for " no knurling or sharp edges to catch on clothing", my arc has never gotten stuck in my pocket, and lack of knurling is a big issue in the fenix t1

3. the UI, you would think surefire would create a different kind of switching mechanism, or they could just make the L1 give out 80 lumens and low 5 lumens and be done with it, rather then just jumping on the bandwagon of "on-off-on" type switching.

I dont want to turn this into a fenix vs surefire thread, that was a joke, but my issue is with, paying $110, i would expect quite abit more out of a this light, especially comeing from surefire..
EDIT: taking into account what jeffb said, i dont intend to step on any toes, i guess there will always be two camps, surefire is to expensive, surefire is worth the money. I still love surefire, dont get me wrong, its just other brands are more accesible to my budget..

and surefire isnt the only one with a great warranty and cust service btw..

that said, Dogbyte is right, surefire is a great brand, and i mean, if this light works for you, by all means, its all personal preference, the above is just my observations based on past threads..

my 2cents..

but i think we can all agree that surefire should have a "new lights" page rather then just sliding in one like that...

Crenshaw


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## yaesumofo (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

This is like the ultimate Surefire rumor really. Are Shot Show buildup.
Maybe these will be on display.
That Clip looks like the from the pages of ARC/HDS. Infact the light looks to me the surefire answer to the HDS EDC or arc 4. small form factor 2 levels hi and low. That 80 lumen number is quite familiar.
I love where this light is going and I will have one if they really become available.
This light is right up my alley. small single cell bright and low.
It also reminds me of a PD low and hi single cell and nice clip.
The CPF influence is strong in this light. JUST LIKE THE FORCE.
Oh nice price too. The New HDS light is much more expensive. and this light is coming from a company with a track record of supporting it's customers unlike Henry's previous efforts (just try to get an HDS EDC factory repair.)

Anybody look up those Patent numbers? Are they anything NEW?


Nice design. It needs a new name.
Yaesumofo


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## paulr (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

Wow, this looks pretty cool. I like the smooth lines. Maybe it looks cheap but I'd want to see some more pics or better yet a real one. I think high-then-low is the right way to set up the levels in this type of light since it's not a general purpose edc. I was pretty unimpressed with the early generation Luxeon optics but this TIR stuff sounds interesting.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 16, 2008)

Hmm....somehow I'm thinking that this what a TW4 would have been if it had a two stage momentary.

Gee - that's what I have now with my Aleph body, KL4 head, and McClicky two stage. Same size too - with a protected tailcap as a bonus....

I'm curious as to how well it'll do with a rechargable. Or will it pull a KX1 and go all wacky when you put a rechargable on it.

-Steve


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## FrogmanM (Jan 16, 2008)

The E1B does look like its in the running with the HDS and ARC LS 1 Cell lights... I'll wait for the reviews on this one... while waiting for my TR70

Mayo


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## Crenshaw (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*



yaesumofo said:


> Anybody look up those Patent numbers? Are they anything NEW?


 
i was just wondering that, what could they possibly have patents for on this light?

Crenshaw


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## Size15's (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*



yaesumofo said:


> The CPF influence is strong in this light. JUST LIKE THE FORCE.


I wonder whether PK would agree with your view?
I personally doubt that CPF had anything to do with it.



yaesumofo said:


> Nice design. It needs a new name.
> Yaesumofo


For SureFire to name it so clearly and boldly they must be really clear about it's intended market - a backup light for those who carry flashlight. For example Law Enforcement. The lack of any SureFire knurling and previous SureFire styling indicates they deliberately want it to have a smooth style. They even refer to the design as "sleek" and "melted" so that it doesn't catch on or wear out clothing.
I would suggest that this flashlight is born from feedback by a core market sector for SureFire such as Law Enforcement.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

And as a former LEO, I'm concerned that this light has NO knurling.

So - is this design cue really attracting LEO's, or is it attempting to attract a larger, broader market?

-Steve



Size15's said:


> I wonder whether PK would agree with your view?
> I personally doubt that CPF had anything to do with it.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Size15's (Jan 16, 2008)

Patents 6,547,415 and 6,712,485 are for the clip interface and attachment point.


----------



## Size15's (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*



Beastmaster said:


> And as a former LEO, I'm concerned that this light has NO knurling.
> 
> So - is this design cue really attracting LEO's, or is it attempting to attract a larger, broader market?
> 
> -Steve


Have you fed back your preferences to SureFire? Otherwise your views and experience is unknown to them.

Obviously no one flashlight can satisfy everybody.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

Actually, I have. And, if I'm able to free myself to go to the SHOT show (thank goodness for FFL's !), I'm likely going to voice my views there too.

-Steve



Size15's said:


> Have you fed back your preferences to SureFire? Otherwise your views and experience is unknown to them.
> 
> Obviously no one flashlight can satisfy everybody.


----------



## Size15's (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*



Beastmaster said:


> Actually, I have. And, if I'm able to free myself to go to the SHOT show (thank goodness for FFL's !), I'm likely going to voice my views there too.
> 
> -Steve


Well like I said no single flashlight can satisfy everybody... If you go to SHOT Show I suggest you check out the E1B _before_ informing the SureFire rep what you think of it


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

Hehe...I definitely will. My biggest concern is that a smooth flashlight is a royal PITA to grasp. Think about the Inova X1/XO2/XO3's and how hard they are to activate the momentary on when your hands are sweaty.

Oh, well. I'm likely going to buy one anyways. It'll also likely force me to have Milky mod my L1 now and some of my KL1 heads to give me an equivalent lumen rating or better it.

-Steve



Size15's said:


> Well like I said no single flashlight can satisfy everybody... If you go to SHOT Show I suggest you check out the E1B _before_ informing the SureFire rep what you think of it


----------



## Stillphoto (Jan 16, 2008)

I totally agree with Size15's on the intended users this light is aimed at.

Personally this light really hits the nail on the head for me. 

While I don't dig the linear grooves on the one in this photo, it's not a big deal to me. It will allow for some grip to be had when twisting the tail or when the light is wet, but doesn't have the standard "cheesegrater" effect that standard knurl can have.

I always liked the option of wearing my e1e/led derivatives of this body style on a hat for hands free use, but I disliked the bezel up carry. This clip solves that.

Body shape/length makes me thing the electronics take up some of that space, similiar to how the L1's guts are. Void previous line due to looking at the body again lol. Clicky = good. Given Surefire's excellent customer service track record, any switch problems are a non-issue to me. Black HAIII for the win! While having Backup on a light is not my cup of tea, a little aluminum black would help make that dissapear.

Level wise....sweet. Just what a light needs, high and low. I have no qualms with the high-low order of levels either. I always tend to search out high anyways, and the ui on this sounds fast enough that if I need low its a fraction of a second away.

While I don't see myself getting this light immediately, I do plan on owning one. Totally not in the market for one, but considering the culmination of things this light brings, and at this price point, I'm game.


----------



## sawlight (Jan 16, 2008)

My thoughts, what ever they are worth, on this light.
It looks VERY nice, I think it is very reasonable priced, and I think it's a home run for the intended market.
The intended market, IMO, is backup for LEO's, and a light for CCW carriers. Think about this for a minuete, nice Khaki pants or slacks, detective or out to dinner, no snagging, no wear and no gloves. No need for knurling. The HAIII should be fairly slip resistant as it is, and the light has some grooving that should help as well. That is also the reason the light comes on high, CCW carriers will want the bright "right now" as well as LEO's.
Myself, probably not a light I am interested in right now. Might be in the future though. It seems a bi long for a single cell, from the pic, it looks longer than an L1 even. But it's hard to tell. I like the smaller head, I would like smaller yet, but after carrying my 120P I am understanding why SF doesn't do that. It can get confusing which end of the light is which when you pull it out of you're pocket under duress. (Don't laugh, try it!!)The big end makes light! I wish it would tailstand!!! Sorry, but that is one thing I really like my lights to do, changing a tire, power goes out etc., it's a nce feature that is VERY usefull!!!
It seems like a nice light, and I would really enjoy playing with one sometime!


----------



## GBone (Jan 16, 2008)

As it has been said, different strokes for different folks... same goes for a torch.

I think the design and UI look very solid based on Surefire's intentions for a "backup."

Personally I like it... I'll take one!!!


----------



## IcantC (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

From the SF website...

Ultra compact (finger length), dual-output LED flashlight with extended runtime and tactical-level output. The E1B was developed as an everyday-carry flashlight for undercover officers and as a backup light for patrol officers — but it's also ideal for outdoor, self-defense, and everyday use by civilians. The Backup features a virtually indestructible, electronically regulated light emitting diode (LED) that, on its "high" setting, produces a smooth, tactical-level beam (enough light to temporarily overwhelm the night-adapted vision of an aggressor) with four times the output, of a two-D-cell flashlight. And it continues generating tactical-light levels for 1.3 hours on a single battery. On its "low" setting, the E1B generates five lumens of light that's perfect for reading a map, checking an ID, or navigating a dark pathway, and generates useful light levels for 37 hours. And the E1B's click-on/off tailcap is programmed to instantly deliver maximum output when its pushbutton is depressed, a critical feature in law enforcement and tactical applications where a lot of light is frequently needed immediately. Rounding out this flashlight's features are its unique "melted" styling — no knurling or sharp edges to catch on clothing — and two-way pocket clip, which lets a user carry the Backup bezel up or down, whichever he or she prefers.

It's focus is LE who require the light to turn on high. So those complaining now see why it's setup this way and I would prefer that. I still don't get why this light is so special for undercover work over any other light... Not to mention I don't see how the slick surface will help in LE. I guess without the knurling and new switch, it's a new L1 . I guess will have to handle one to see how it is.

Though for an emergency backup I would rather carry a 2AA or Fenix. I used to carry 2 Z2's and umm now lost one . However I know SF will stand behind products and love the lifetime warranty.


----------



## rtt (Jan 16, 2008)

I like this light by the pictures I have seen! I think the clip is a clever design. I feel confident that there will be some at the Shot Show, so I will be able to actually get my hands on one to see how it feels and functions.


----------



## ugrey (Jan 16, 2008)

Length is 4 inches. Am I the only one who thinks this is kind of long for a one cell light. "Smaller(?),Brighter, Better" All the SF one cell lights seem awfully long to me compared to other companies one cell lights. My first "real" flashlight was a 3.2 inch long ARC-LS.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 16, 2008)

Considering that my TW4 clone with Aleph two stage switch and E1e body doesn't snag or wear on my dress pants or suit pants now, I fail to understand how this will make a huge difference being smooth. The crenelations appear to be about the same "depth" in the picture as the KL/KX series heads seem to be now.

The clip - huge improvement. Great idea, great fix, and that change alone is worth it.

Switch - that one will have to wait until I get it in my hand first. For pocket carry, I like having the switch behind something like an Oregon Shooter cap add on.

The length is shorter than the L1. It's exactly the same length as an E1e/E1L with a KX4 head - 4 inches on the nose.

As for the backup comment - I'll pose this minor thing out to the board.

Many times - backups end up being the primary. If you're off duty, and you carry, you do want duty level performance in your backup items. 

If I was back in the LEO gig, I would expect that my backup items (sidearm, flashlight, etc.) give me the same level of performance and features as my primary items. 

This is why knurling is a good thing. Yes, HA is not totally smooth - there is a texture to it. But - you want the most secure grip possible on such a small flashlight.

Will the SF Backup give good purchase for your fingers in stressful situations? Again - I'll have to have it in my hand first. 

-Steve



sawlight said:


> My thoughts, what ever they are worth, on this light.
> It looks VERY nice, I think it is very reasonable priced, and I think it's a home run for the intended market.
> The intended market, IMO, is backup for LEO's, and a light for CCW carriers. Think about this for a minuete, nice Khaki pants or slacks, detective or out to dinner, no snagging, no wear and no gloves. No need for knurling. The HAIII should be fairly slip resistant as it is, and the light has some grooving that should help as well. That is also the reason the light comes on high, CCW carriers will want the bright "right now" as well as LEO's.
> Myself, probably not a light I am interested in right now. Might be in the future though. It seems a bi long for a single cell, from the pic, it looks longer than an L1 even. But it's hard to tell. I like the smaller head, I would like smaller yet, but after carrying my 120P I am understanding why SF doesn't do that. It can get confusing which end of the light is which when you pull it out of you're pocket under duress. (Don't laugh, try it!!)The big end makes light! I wish it would tailstand!!! Sorry, but that is one thing I really like my lights to do, changing a tire, power goes out etc., it's a nce feature that is VERY usefull!!!
> It seems like a nice light, and I would really enjoy playing with one sometime!


----------



## yaesumofo (Jan 16, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

You are fooling your self if you think that Surefire and other companies ignore what is going on here on the CPF. The single cell multilevel light is a very popular type of light here both in custom and commercial lights. If it were a useless combination it would be known here and would not likely see production.
The idea that a (flashlight) company would NOT use the CPF as a resource is insane.
It is also true that certain people at surefire have relationships with people on the CPF. the idea that ideas are not exchanged is also silly. Thus I say that there is Clearly a CPF INFLUENCE on this design. 
On the other hand Surefire does so many things which counter logic..Maybe they completely ignore the CPF and pretend it doesn't exist.
Who knows? Do you For sure? 
It is the for sure part which counts. Isn't it. 
IMHO while maybe it is not advertised It seems to me inconceivable that the CPF is ignored by flashlight companies. That would be stupid.

The clip..Is it a new design which is covered by the Patent? If so Don't you think it more likely that the light gets sold?
The way that clip goes on the light looks similar like the way the clip is installed on a Novatac....
Yaesumofo




Size15's said:


> I wonder whether PK would agree with your view?
> I personally doubt that CPF had anything to do with it.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Numbers (Jan 17, 2008)

I think this may bode well for upgrades to the L2, L4, U2 etc. If they spent time on this light they must have spent time on upgrading some of their icons.


----------



## marinemaster (Jan 17, 2008)

I think the real star here is the CREE/SSC. Without it, this new "model" would not have been possible, runtime, 2 modes, etc. However credit is due to SF to be able to design a light around the newest technology. 

Saying that I just had a thought. I really think this forum really needs to stand up and get a credit too. I think this is the perfect opportunity. Especially that we have a company/employee representative that is aware and active on this forum.

So what I am saying is that SF should really consider giving a discount not via a dealer but via a factory discount to their lights to this forum members. A lot of companies/business do this. I personally spent at least $300 last year on Surefire lights. I am sure a lot of members have spent a lot also on SF lights. 

As SF lights have a SN on them they should have maybe a Database with Names and Serial Numbers linked to each other and give like a $10 OFF your next Surefire light or a FREE box of batteries. 

I see a lot of forum members here want to buy this new backup light. I also believe this is a large community that should not be ignored by SF. Not sure what percentage of thier business they get from us, but it still counts for something, I am sure.

Maybe something like you has been a member on this forum for a 1 year and have two or more SF lights and based on the SN of the lights you already have get a $10 discount of your next SF light; or the "new" backup light in this case. 

I don't think I am unreasonable. The Internet age has proven that a LOT of business have made a LOT of money look at Ebay and Paypal and Amazon, they have made Billions of dollars on the Internet, why should we not get a break also? I believe that 90% of forum members that buy SF lights buy them via Internet. 

Based on the responses here, I may run a poll later for a letter/petition to Surefire. 

Chris


----------



## woodrow (Jan 17, 2008)

I knew you could do it again Surefire! Wow, I waant this thing! A sleek new edc for very reasonable money. Wow! This is the SF I have been (not so patiently) waiting for. Thanks for the info. 

Now we just need a 250lumen L5 and a G2 resin version of the Beast, so it can sell for $400.00


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## 270winchester (Jan 17, 2008)

meh.

I'll skip this one and keep using my L1 happily. The light looks like a generic light, and the interface just isn't for me after being spoiled by the L1 interface. 

I will however take that clip, kinda looks like what a standard E-series clip attachment but just different enough. the only complaint I have with the L1 is carrying method. Luckily I have a belt with attachment point on it for clips, but still.


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## magic_elf (Jan 17, 2008)

agreed, too similar to the L1, and the L1's 2-stage switch works much better too. Don't see the point in paying double for what can be got from a P2D.

Just curious, how come size 15 seem to only appear (and very active) in any thread about surefire? Never seem to see him around in other threads? Are you surefire rep or just an enthusiast for their brand?


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## skalomax (Jan 17, 2008)

I'm going to buy at least one.
80lm on high, and that's an understatement. 

i think surefire's listening.
*Cough..MINI HID...Cough*


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## Az_Tibor (Jan 17, 2008)

Comparing pictures, I'm fairly certain the tailcap and body are functionally identical to the standard E1e and E1L tailcap and body, with only the exterior machining (and clip) being different. As for the head, the base that screws onto the body appears to be the same as that of the KL1, KL4 and L1 head... so I think the E1B head (KLB?) should work on the 1-cell bodies we already have. I wonder if Surefire will release it separately? 

I think it looks good! I like the lack of knurling, honestly - I do have pockets that have gotten torn up from my E1l and E2e knurling. Here's a picture comparison to the E1L...


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## Patriot (Jan 17, 2008)

Knurling or not, I like this little light. I like the short size and the pocketclip. I'm looking forward to actually holding and using it.

I also agree that CPF has some influence at SF. The extend of the influence will probably never be known but logic would certainly point to some kind connection, even if limited.


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## djsportland (Jan 17, 2008)

I can't wait to pick one up! A half inch shorter and more power than the L1 I already love makes it a no brainer.


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## NoFair (Jan 17, 2008)

Looks nice. 

The clip is a good idea, someone here made something like that for the HDS lights a while ago. 

Still prefer the L1 switch though. Hopefully the L1 will get the new clip as well sometime in the future.

Sverre


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## KeyGrip (Jan 17, 2008)

If the switch works the way I hope it will, I'm gonna get one. I should probably wait until after SHOT to see what else is in the pipeline, though.


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## yaesumofo (Jan 17, 2008)

Except that the P2D is a fenix. Made in China.
By A company with a short track record and a habbit of dropping lights from it's line after months not years.
Basides this one has a clip...a patented clip.
Yaesumofo



magic_elf said:


> agreed, too similar to the L1, and the L1's 2-stage switch works much better too. Don't see the point in paying double for what can be got from a P2D.
> 
> Just curious, how come size 15 seem to only appear (and very active) in any thread about surefire? Never seem to see him around in other threads? Are you surefire rep or just an enthusiast for their brand?


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## KenAnderson (Jan 17, 2008)

Riddick said:


> 5 and 80 lumens , 37 hr runtime sweet oo:


 
I don't like that Surefire quotes runtime that is dropping in brightness so much. They quote 37 hours of usable light at 5 lumens. I would rather see it stated as 15 hours of 5 lumens while running an additional 17 hours at declining levels below 5 lumens. It's a more usable description that can help me to decide which light better meets my needs.

Ken


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## milox (Jan 17, 2008)

i don't really like the design, but output and two stages i like


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## ampdude (Jan 17, 2008)

It looks awesome! I can't wait!!!!!



> "High first is dumb, would you want to speakers to start at top volume"



and 



> "$110 is too much money, but I'll pay $75 for a Fenix"



I don't understand these people at all!

What planet are they from? How do you compare speaker volume with a tactical flashlight? Do they use flashlights in the field or just in their living room?

This new light looks incredible and really came out of nowhere. I really wasn't expecting something cool like this. I wonder how it will affect L1 sales, since it seems like an improved version of the L1 to me.

Only thing I noticed is that perhaps it could use some more knurling on the body/tailcap, but I'll have to hold it first. I know it is meant as a deep concealment type light so I'm not surprised it lacks some of the rougher knurling present on typical Surefire lights.


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## Burgess (Jan 17, 2008)

Hopefully, by the time these are shipping,

SureFire will have added an S-O-S mode. 



(okay, okay . . . . i was only kidding !)

:nana:
_


----------



## knightrider (Jan 17, 2008)

And I just got my L1 Cree in the mail today... :mecry:

Love the L1 but this looks really cool. I like the non knurling and black color. A little more dressy and would be great for out on the town, very small and dark. Great clip design. The new SFs are getting better and better, and the old ones are still awesome!


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## Tempest UK (Jan 17, 2008)

Should be interesting. Well, it already is interesting, really 

Regards,
Tempest


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## MorpheusT1 (Jan 17, 2008)

p1fiend said:


> $110:duh2::thumbsdow
> 
> This light would be my first Surefire, but not for that price. That light is NOT worth more than $70 tops, and that is stretching it.
> 
> ...




Are you kidding me?

That is a freaking bargain:twothumbs


----------



## swxb12 (Jan 17, 2008)

This will open the doors to a wider customer range (i.e. more civilian/sheeple friendly looking, heh). It's a great idea. Next up, AA light. :thumbsup:


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## Lightraven (Jan 17, 2008)

4 pages and nobody has said it. . .

"Where's the disorienting strobe mode?!!!"

C'mon, you know you want it!


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## Esthan (Jan 17, 2008)

I like it :]


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## rastaman (Jan 17, 2008)

!


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## Size15's (Jan 17, 2008)

magic_elf said:


> Just curious, how come size 15 seem to only appear (and very active) in any thread about surefire? Never seem to see him around in other threads? Are you surefire rep or just an enthusiast for their brand?


I am not a 'SureFire rep' - 'just an enthusiast for their brand'. I do post on non-SureFire threads although this is rare - it tends to be when I'm interested or familiar with other flashlight brands. I try to only post where I've got physical experience of the products in question, or sufficient background to help explain rational etc.
I don't really care whether or not anybody buys SureFire or not. It's when people misrepresent or are incorrect about SureFire the company or product that I feel I can help by posting clarification or a point of view from a different perspective.

I am friends with PK (Paul Kim) at SureFire and tend to stick up for my friends when they aren't in a position to stick up for themselves. SureFire don't have a good track record of representatives being made welcome here on CPF. I'm sure the same is so for other manufacturers and I feel that is why we are so poorly represented by industry - we don't make it easy for companies to approach and communicate with us.

So I post in threads about SureFires to help provide detailed and accurate information about SureFire's product ranges and the huge variety of options they have. I also post to offer my opinion and perspective on the reasons behind the things SureFire does as I have developws an understanding and history as a result of getting to know SureFire products and company over the last decade (or thereabouts).

Al


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## Federal LG (Jan 17, 2008)

Oh man... There goes my money! 

*Things that I like:*
80 lumens on high 
5 lumens on low
Optional clip position (bezel up, bezel down)
Small size

*Things that I dislike:*
Two-stage tailcap switch: press for momentary-on at high setting, release and press again (within two seconds) for momentary-on at low setting; click for constant-on at high-setting, click off and on again (within two seconds) for constant-on at low setting

To become PERFECT, it could have a L1 button (press/momentary and twist for ON)... and a WHITE LED, not green or purple or yellow!




Hmm... Probably it will have more throw than the L1 Lumamax Cree, right ?


----------



## paulr (Jan 17, 2008)

If they're going to have pushbutton electronic switching, the UI they chose is about as good as we can hope for. The fancy two-level pushbutton in the L1 is probably a big chunk of its cost and a contributor to its size. 

Anyone know if this light will be made in the same CA factory as other SF lights?


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## ampdude (Jan 17, 2008)

MorpheusT1 said:


> Are you kidding me?
> 
> That is a freaking bargain:twothumbs



I know... I was expecting to see $190 or something as the price on Surefire's website. It looks like a great little high quality bargain priced American made EDC. :twothumbs


----------



## NextLight (Jan 17, 2008)

Crenshaw said:


> What is wierd -
> 1. Looks cheap, as Bernhard points out, it looks like a "chinese style" as people are fond of saying here, that has random words like Police,stronglight, and *gasp* backup?whyyyy
> Crenshaw



It is called a backup, because that is what it is for. Backup for a LEO, or as a concealed carry light for a Detective is what it says on the web site.

Carrying a knurled, strike bezeled light, one thin layer (undershorts...or maybe not) from bare skin 16 hours a day is no fun. Main tools that are carried in leather holsters on my belt or in the car can be knurled, big headed and sharp edged. 

The tapered head will mean much less discomfort with the light in my pants, and it will print less. In dress clothes, my backup light is usually carried in a belly band, between my shirt and underwear, most often right in front, just below my belt buckle. Other EDC "tools" are carried in the belly band around the waist. For a Cop, CCW permit holder, or just a CN (Closet Nerd) who wants to be less obvious, this light looks like a worthy choice... for about the price of 4 magazines worth of good self defense ammunition. 

But even in a regular Joe's pants pocket, this will print, poke, or wear less than most other similarly rated lights. It is now at the top of my wish list of lights to try. I wouldn't care if they called it a Wuss Light.


----------



## ampdude (Jan 17, 2008)

Federal LG said:


> Oh man... There goes my money!
> 
> *Things that I like:*
> 80 lumens on high
> ...



I thought it did have the L1/A2 style switch and a White LED. I'll have to look at the Surefire page closer. Still looks cool though. 

*edit*
Disregard, your sarcasm went over my head.


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## Schuey2002 (Jan 17, 2008)

Size15's said:


> I am friends with PK (Paul Kim) at SureFire and tend to stick up for my friends when they aren't in a position to stick up for themselves. SureFire don't have a good track record of representatives being made welcome here on CPF. I'm sure the same is so for other manufacturers and I feel that is why we are so poorly represented by industry - we don't make it easy for companies to approach and communicate with us.



Hi, PK !! :wave: 

.

If I could only get one with a textured reflector in it instead of that TIR Optic... :mecry:


----------



## ampdude (Jan 17, 2008)

Schuey2002 said:


> Hi, PK !! :wave:
> 
> .
> 
> If I could only get one with a textured reflector in it instead of that TIR Optic... :mecry:



Yea, I'm not a huge fan of optics myself. But then I'm not big on textured reflectors either, prefer the smoother ones for more throw. I have a few lights with smoother reflectors and the beam is still beautiful and artifact free, but they throw better. This makes a big difference outdoors and in larger indoor areas.


----------



## Turt (Jan 17, 2008)

I've found that the current optic in the L1 is perfect for practical outdoor use. I gauge the usefulness of a flashlight by how far it can throw a spot as well as by how well the spill will help me see dog poo when I walk in grass (don't ask). The L1 does both these things well. In fact, spill that is too bright tends to reflect back at you, which makes it impossible to see whatever the spot portion of the beam is directed at. The L1 optic balances these things almost perfectly. The E1B will be pretty awesome if it has the same optic. And all this is coming for a hardcore fan of reflectors over optics... I just really found this particular one to be designed very well. I just wish they would make one in the grayish color to match my VG1 body... that would be very cool if those pieces all fit together.


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## MikeLip (Jan 17, 2008)

ampdude said:


> I know... I was expecting to see $190 or something as the price on Surefire's website. It looks like a great little high quality bargain priced American made EDC. :twothumbs



Ditto. I was thinking with the features and output, it HAS to be more than an L1, which I happily paid for. The fact that it is considerably LESS than an L1 means it is going to find it's way into my pocket at the earliest opportunity. Nice job, SF!


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## Numbers (Jan 17, 2008)

It must sell for less than an L1 because it costs less than an L1 to make. Still it's only 25 bucks.
My disappointment is that the L1 does not have the 80/5 output bezel. Aside from that, from what we can read or see so far, I like everything about the L1 better than the E1B (and btw it does look Chinese to me).


----------



## Fooboy (Jan 17, 2008)

Well ... supposedly the L1 is actually putting out around 80 lumens. I wonder if surefire's advertised 80 *IS* 80 or more like 100.

???

Anyways - I love my L1 Cree. I will let you guys do the testing/run charts before I buy anything


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## Fooboy (Jan 17, 2008)

Size15's said:


> I am friends with PK (Paul Kim) at SureFire and tend to stick up for my friends when they aren't in a position to stick up for themselves. SureFire don't have a good track record of representatives being made welcome here on CPF. I'm sure the same is so for other manufacturers and I feel that is why we are so poorly represented by industry - we don't make it easy for companies to approach and communicate with us.


 
If you're friends with PK, you should have him Hire Milky :thumbsup: Then they can put him in charge of the L1 manufacturing line and there will be Milky L1s a plenty!


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## Size15's (Jan 17, 2008)

Fooboy said:


> If you're friends with PK, you should have him Hire Milky :thumbsup: Then they can put him in charge of the L1 manufacturing line and there will be Milky L1s a plenty!


If SureFire (PK) wanted Milky he would likely already be working for SureFire.
If Milky wants to work for SureFire then he needs to take care of that for himself. If my help was needed then that is a bit of a concern.

I'm sure that if Milky started to work for SureFire and the L1 was changed to incorporate his ideas of how it should be, then CPF members would start championing the next person who modifies the changed L1!

Al :ironic:


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## Crenshaw (Jan 17, 2008)

Lol...im sure surefire has thier own wing of highly paid designers...not that milky isnt good, mind you. 

Size15s, but we are quite nice to representitives of manufacturers right? like we seem nice to pk as far as i have read, to peter, to 4sevens..

Crenshaw


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## Size15's (Jan 17, 2008)

Crenshaw said:


> Size15s, but we are quite nice to representitives of manufacturers right? like we seem nice to pk as far as i have read, to peter, to 4sevens...


Then why haven't Pelican, Streamlight, Underwater Kinetics, Inova, Laser Devices etc, and SureFire got representatives on CPF and their own sub-forums?

PK is a special case.


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## Numbers (Jan 17, 2008)

Size15's said:


> Then why haven't Pelican, Streamlight, Underwater Kinetics, Inova, Laser Devices etc, and SureFire got representatives on CPF and their own sub-forums?
> 
> PK is a special case.


You know I thought I asked Shasa about sub forums and subsequently read that there was some criteria making sub forums unavailable to businesses not "started" here on CPF. 
I know I will be corrected if this is wrong (try to be kind) But I must say I would love a set up like that on CPF so that I would not have to wade through a lot of stuff that I am not interested in.


----------



## djblank87 (Jan 17, 2008)

Size15's said:


> PK is a special case.


 
That cause he is a major weenie :nana: just like most of us. :thumbsup:

The light looks great and Surefire seems to of answered the call of what many in the LEO arena has asked for and wanted. As for any dislikes or likes I would much rather hold it in my hands and test it myself before making any statements about what can be changed. 

As for the price $110.00, that is very reasonable in my opinion.


----------



## dilbert (Jan 17, 2008)

I was just about to get a L1. Now I'm not sure. On the L1 I prefer the overall design, color, and switch. On the E1B I _really_ like the new clip design and it is a little shorter and costs a little less. I'm not sure if I prefer 10/65 lumens or 5/80 lumens. I guess I'll have to wait a little longer and try them out side by side.


----------



## BSCOTT1504 (Jan 17, 2008)

The E1B is a great looking light. I'm not so sure about the lack of knurling, but other than that it's a winner!! I like the clip design and the $110 price is less than I would expect for this light!

I'll take it.....


----------



## NickDrak (Jan 17, 2008)

p1fiend said:


> Just a bummer:sigh: for those that don't have money to throw at every new light (though it is hard not to: damn you CPF!!!)


 
Buy a Surefire brother, and you will immediately lose the urge to rush out and buy "every new light" that hits the market as you will find out what a quality flashlight is supposed to look, feel & function like.

Surefires prices have actually started to come down. As an example, the X200B retails for $275.00 and the new higher output, better performing X300 now retails for $225.00


----------



## sween1911 (Jan 17, 2008)

greenLED said:


> ...aaaand here it goes again... :shakehead
> 
> Would you guys give it a rest with the SF price bashing? The light's not even out, you have no clue as to how much it costs to develop, produce, and market that light.
> 
> ...



+1. I agree 100%. 

At this point from what I've read, I think the light is perfect. 
They've taken all of our favorite things (well, all MY favorite things ) and made one light out of it. Beautiful.


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## MikeLip (Jan 17, 2008)

BSCOTT1504 said:


> The E1B is a great looking light. I'm not so sure about the lack of knurling, but other than that it's a winner!! I like the clip design and the $110 price is less than I would expect for this light!
> 
> I'll take it.....



I am personally GLAD they didn't knurl it. I love my L1 and I like the aggressive knurling on it. But my Fisher bullet pen doesn't, nor does my pocket!


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## NickDrak (Jan 17, 2008)

While I do LOVE the checkering or "knurling" on my 6PL and L1 CREE, I own other Surefire lights that have NO checkering at all, and they are complete ergonomic joys to carry & operate everyday while on duty (M2, C3). So until I actually have one of the E1B's in my hand to evaluate, I am not concerned about the lack of checkering on it. 

Wait until it is released to start knocking its design. A perfect example of why pre-release specs dont give a accurate impression of what a light will truly feel like in hand is the Fenix T1. While the T1's max output is truly impressive, it is the least ergonomic light I currently own and carry with me on patrol everyday. The checkering on the T1 is completly useless, and the way you have to switch between HIGH/LOW is rather user UN-friendly.

ETA: I also dont see what all the fuss with the name "Backup" engraved on the light is all about. Surefire has emblazoned catchy names on many of their lights for several years...."Defender", "Centurion", "Guardian", "Devastator" etc. Now maybe if it said "Special Forces Light" on it, then there may be something to complain about.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 17, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Except that the P2D is a fenix. Made in China.
> By A company with a short track record and a habbit of dropping lights from it's line after months not years.
> Basides this one has a clip...a patented clip.
> Yaesumofo


*+1

Well said!
*


----------



## ICspots (Jan 17, 2008)

I been wanting an L1 for awhile now and they are coming out with this? Decisions decisions "both" isn't an option. Mmmmmm that looks suhweet!


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## Federal LG (Jan 17, 2008)

ampdude said:


> Yea, I'm not a huge fan of optics myself. But then I'm not big on textured reflectors either, prefer the smoother ones for more throw. I have a few lights with smoother reflectors and the beam is still beautiful and artifact free, but they throw better. This makes a big difference outdoors and in larger indoor areas.



+1
Smooth reflectors! I want throoooow!


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## stitch_paradox (Jan 17, 2008)

Size15's said:


> Then why haven't Pelican, Streamlight, Underwater Kinetics, Inova, Laser Devices etc, and SureFire got representatives on CPF and their own sub-forums?
> 
> PK is a special case.



Exactly! I was thinking the same thing.. just kept quiet. Why?


----------



## stitch_paradox (Jan 17, 2008)

Crenshaw said:


> Size15s, but we are quite nice to representitives of manufacturers right? like we seem nice to pk as far as i have read, to peter, to 4sevens..
> 
> Crenshaw



Yeah might be nice to them, but not to their products... you might want to check your earlier post on this thread about the SF backup.


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## Federal LG (Jan 17, 2008)

*Do you guys think that this new E1B will have more throw than the L1 Cree ?*


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## Size15's (Jan 17, 2008)

Numbers said:


> You know I thought I asked Shasa about sub forums and subsequently read that there was some criteria making sub forums unavailable to businesses not "started" here on CPF.
> I know I will be corrected if this is wrong (try to be kind) But I must say I would love a set up like that on CPF so that I would not have to wade through a lot of stuff that I am not interested in.


Well this is part of the whole history of the matter that we won't go into here.

Lets get back to the E1B...


----------



## stitch_paradox (Jan 17, 2008)

I think this light is a winner. More lumens than the L1 and cheaper too. Great EDC that goes with formal attire, IMO.


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## houtex (Jan 17, 2008)

Sounds like what i've been looking for. First and fast high and bright,then second low for those low light situations. It's kinda like a Fenix T1 in a small package. Way to go Surefire.:thumbsup:


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## Spence (Jan 17, 2008)

I just got off the phone with my acquaintance/buddy at SF, and as of 1-17-08, 0815 hrs, he says the E1B is between one and two months from being available and the $110 price on the web site is not set in concrete.
And, that's the best I could do. He did verify that an email will be sent to those on the list and the new '08 catalog will be out the first or second week of February. The E1B Backup...I've got to have one...it might even nudge my L1 CREE out of its' EDC duties for me.
Spence


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## adamr999 (Jan 17, 2008)

I get the email from Surefire about the E1B, so I came here to read what people think about the light and the price issue comes up again (like it always does)
I know mostly everyone looks at the big picture, but there are some who just look at the price and assume that Surefire is trying to rip everyone off. What is the big picture? Surefire manufactures their lights in Orange County California! What does that mean? Very high operating cost. California is probably the most expensive place to run a business, which is why most large companies move out of the state. If you look prices of lights that are made in America you will see that they more expensive than Chinese built lights. 

I didn't want to sound like a jerk, but I am really sick of reading threads on Surefire lights only to find people complaining about price.


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## WadeF (Jan 17, 2008)

LOL! I just got my SF L1 in the mail today and now I see this. Oh well, I'm stil glad I got the L1. Maybe I'll get a E1B too. I'm not sure how crazy I am about the beam on the L1, I figure the E1B will have the same type of beam, but with a little more lumens?


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## IcantC (Jan 17, 2008)

adamr999 said:


> I get the email from Surefire about the E1B, so I came here to read what people think about the light and the price issue comes up again (like it always does)
> I know mostly everyone looks at the big picture, but there are some who just look at the price and assume that Surefire is trying to rip everyone off. What is the big picture? Surefire manufactures their lights in Orange County California! What does that mean? Very high operating cost. California is probably the most expensive place to run a business, which is why most large companies move out of the state. If you look prices of lights that are made in America you will see that they more expensive than Chinese built lights.
> 
> I didn't want to sound like a jerk, but I am really sick of reading threads on Surefire lights only to find people complaining about price.


 
Right, if it was made overseas and did not have a lifetime warranty, then it would be overpriced. People need to constitute other factors in pricing as well. 

Moving back on topic, hope it is out by Feb!


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## greenstuffs (Jan 17, 2008)

Looks nice. I guess we should see this light on the shelves around summer so plenty of time to save money. Just a conservative guess.


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## WadeF (Jan 17, 2008)

IcantC said:


> Right, if it was made overseas and did not have a lifetime warranty, then it would be overpriced. People need to constitute other factors in pricing as well.
> 
> Moving back on topic, hope it is out by Feb!


 
Even if it was made overseas, if it was made to the same specs and quality that SF would make it with, it would probably still bring $100-110. I don't think $100-110 for a SF quality light is over priced. If it was $200-250, then maybe. With a Nitecore DI selling for $80, we should be excited to see something like the SF E1B for only $110.


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## ampdude (Jan 17, 2008)

adamr999 said:


> I get the email from Surefire about the E1B,



I never got anything!  I thought I was on their list. Better check that.


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## gottawearshades (Jan 17, 2008)

The E1B has been pulled from Surefire's Website.

There's no trace, as if it was all a dream.


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## ampdude (Jan 17, 2008)

I need a few Fenix parts from some old (2yr old) lights. I have an L2P head with a broken lense and a clicky that doesn't work anymore. Will Fenix replace them?


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## WadeF (Jan 17, 2008)

gottawearshades said:


> The E1B has been pulled from Surefire's Website.
> 
> There's no trace, as if it was all a dream.


 
Really? 

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/24511/sesent/00


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## ampdude (Jan 17, 2008)

Yup, I still see it.


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## jzmtl (Jan 17, 2008)

Seems like a nice light, not too sure on the UI, seems you'd already blinded yourself by the time you switch to 5 lumen.



ampdude said:


> I need a few Fenix parts from some old (2yr old) lights. I have an L2P head with a broken lense and a clicky that doesn't work anymore. Will Fenix replace them?


Only if you do the chicken dance dressed in red and yellow for them. Seriously, how are we suppose to know?


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## gottawearshades (Jan 17, 2008)

Well, I still don't see it on their list of lights. Refresh your browser.


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## WadeF (Jan 17, 2008)

gottawearshades said:


> Well, I still don't see it on their list of pages. Refresh your browser.


 
Maybe it genertated too many inquiries and they decided to pull it off their list until they are closer to release, or have more information available to field all the inquiries?


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## MikeLip (Jan 17, 2008)

The direct link i s there, the link from their flashlights page is not.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 17, 2008)

I just did it at my work computer (which never hit it before) and got it fine.

-Steve



WadeF said:


> Maybe it genertated too many inquiries and they decided to pull it off their list until they are closer to release, or have more information available to field all the inquiries?


----------



## Tempest UK (Jan 17, 2008)

MikeLip said:


> The direct link i s there, the link from their flashlights page is not.



Yup. Doesn't appear in LED Flashlight section regardless of which browser I use.

Regards,
Tempest


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## nein166 (Jan 17, 2008)

It was on the list page last night. SF still has a page on the site as linked several times on this thread. When I can buy it in my local store then I'll want it. It looks like a nice light but I try not to make up my mind on vaporware until I hold it in my hands. Then its pocketware.


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## FlashSpyJ (Jan 17, 2008)

My first reaction of this light was "waoow"! cool light!

And I too was surprised with the current price tag! To me SF lights are more appealing than other brands, and Ill pay the price for the light if I really want it.
The design is a bit different to SF other lights, its not really the design I like so much in SF other lights. I think its good they are releasing lights with different designs! That way they can accommodate to a bigger market, just like the info says!
The fact that the light lacks knurling can both be good and bad, but for the main purpose I think its better, this light was intended to be a "backup" light. I guess that most of the time this light will be carried in someone pocket. This means that the non knurled body wont tear up the pocket over time, and it wont wear on other stuff that might be in the pocket.

One thing I thought about is the clip If carried bezel up it looks like it could snatch on to the pocket, it might not tear up the pocket though. Just a thought. It looks good nonetheless!

I think this light might be really nice! We will just have to wait until someone gets one in their hands! Like been said before, Its hard and unwise to draw any conclusions about the light by just reading about it and seeing a picture of it.

This is of course my opinion!


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## Size15's (Jan 17, 2008)

nein166 said:


> It looks like a nice light but I try not to make up my mind on vaporware until I hold it in my hands. Then its pocketware.


Good attitude :thumbsup:


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## nein166 (Jan 17, 2008)

So who out there with machining tools can make this clip for the SF bodies (E1L, E2L, A2, C2, M2 etc.)
You'd probably want to bend up a long and short.
I don't see SF offering these as an upgrade. And it doesn't look like it slips in the same. Looks like a ring with tail like NovaTac.


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## Fooboy (Jan 17, 2008)

I wonder if its 80 lumens like the G2L's 80 lumens?

I know surefire tends to be conservative with their lumens, but surefire said the G2L had 80 lumens out the door, which was true - for the first minute. After that - it dropped off considerably. Of course, that could have been related to thermal issues/nitrolon.

I think the Backup looks awesome and the price is right. :thumbsup: 

Personally, my L1 cree suffices for the role the Backup would play _for me_. When I get my next surefire in the $110 range - I'd rather buy a 6P and Malkoff Drop-in and just have a single stage / 200+ lumens. :candle:


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## Size15's (Jan 17, 2008)

nein166 said:


> I don't see SF offering these as an upgrade. And it doesn't look like it slips in the same. Looks like a ring with tail like NovaTac.


It is the same patented attachment point as used by the A2/E2e/M2/L1 etc
I think it is a possibility that SureFire will at some point offer the two-way pocketclip as an accessory.


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## cv3po (Jan 17, 2008)

GreenLED.......I apologize if this was covered ( I didn't have time to read 6 pages) but where did you find this on surefires website. I followed your link and all but when I go to the site on my own I cannot find anything on it?


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## Flight_Deck (Jan 17, 2008)

Cool!

Price seems reasonably for “made in USA”, and for whatever its worth, I’m glad Surefire releases lights as slowly as they do. It’s a lot easier on my wallet that way! 

I find it interesting that the clip is oriented opposite what nearly everyone else has done. No opinion weather that’s good or bad however.


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## hassiah (Jan 17, 2008)

All I can say about this light is that it looks exactly like what I have been looking for. And, I just went out and bought a P2D 

But, I'm not upset about that... I like the P2D for what it is. However, it almost looks like surefire read my "perfect light" thread... (obviously, they've been working on this for a while...).

-one-handed click-based operation of two light levels, high and low. No twisting.

-single CR123 light.

-good tough HA III (whatever you want to call it) finish.

-small, but still thick enough to feel good in the hand (not so narrow that it becomes akward).

-strong glass lens.

-of course, the surefire warranty and obvious excellent fit and finish.

I guess if they say 80 lumens, it's probably what other manufacturers would call 110 thru 150 or so?

I wonder what the throw vs flood is like...

Also, I would like to add that although they have done a two-stage light (multi-level), I would NOT consider it the same as the other stuff out there (there's no strobe, SOS, and there's only two levels). Also, there's NO twisting.

I'd say, as usual, surefire has proven adept at coming up with an excellent ui. You want bright light, you know what to do. You want dim light, you know what to do. And, momentary works with EITHER!!! Forward clickie!!!  IMHO, that aspect can't be emphasized enough.

I won't get one right away... but after they work the bugs out and maybe even up the brightness and/or runtime with some new LEDs (thats bound to happen after a while, I'd guess), I will definitely pick one up. In reality, I'd do it now if funds were no object


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## Numbers (Jan 17, 2008)

It is still on their Flashlight Specs page, but the link from there no longer works.


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## FlashSpyJ (Jan 17, 2008)

This link works http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/24511/sesent/00

EDIT: No longer works!


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## greenLED (Jan 17, 2008)

cv3po said:


> GreenLED.......I apologize if this was covered ( I didn't have time to read 6 pages) but where did you find this on surefires website. I followed your link and all but when I go to the site on my own I cannot find anything on it?


Yeah, you're right. It was on the main flashlight page yesterday; I clicked on the link there and the resulting link is what I posted. :shrug: 

I see koala's pic and my link still take you to the e1b page. Peruse it while it's still hot!


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## Numbers (Jan 17, 2008)

Got it thank you


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## yaesumofo (Jan 17, 2008)

dupe sorry


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## yaesumofo (Jan 17, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

Apparently the "backup" was premiered on the web site a little prematurely.
I suspect this was intended to be unveiled at the shot show.
And now it appears to be completely gone.

It will be back. One can hope anyway.
It really looks like a cool little number.
Yaesumofo


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## Daylo (Jan 17, 2008)

According to a Surefire rep this light was not supposed to be on Surefire's website yet. They said it should be available for pre-order on Feb 1st. No idea how long between pre-order and delivery though. Sweet light, you can bet my name will be on the list.


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## Daylo (Jan 17, 2008)

According to a Surefire rep this light was not supposed to be on Surefire's website yet. They said it should be available for pre-order on Feb 1st. No idea how long between pre-order and delivery though. Sweet light, you can bet my name will be on the list.


----------



## Daylo (Jan 17, 2008)

Sorry for the duplicates, my connection flaked out


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## Beastmaster (Jan 17, 2008)

Well, since it's somewhat disappearing off of Surefire's web servers, I've taken the liberty of archiving the pages in PDF format.

http://www.yeefamily.us/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1b.pdf
http://www.yeefamily.us/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup.pdf

-Steve


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## Kiessling (Jan 17, 2008)

You guys are repeating yourselves or what? :nana:


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 17, 2008)

Not I..... :wave:



Kiessling said:


> You guys are repeating yourselves or what? :nana:


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## KeyGrip (Jan 17, 2008)

Fooboy said:


> I wonder if its 80 lumens like the G2L's 80 lumens?



Since it's being built from the ground up as an LED light, I'd say no. The solid head will have better heat sinking properties.


----------



## spoonrobot (Jan 17, 2008)

koala said:


> +2
> 
> How would you like your Hi-Fi/TV speakers come up at MAX VOLUME every time you turn it on? How about your ipod headphones? High first is dumb.
> 
> ...



High first makes perfect sense to those of use who mainly use our lights in partially illuminated settings. Low first settings become a nuisance when they are only used a small percentage of the time and must be cycled through before getting to the setting of the light I need to use. I only use low on the rare happenstance that I am in a totally dark area and don't want to blow-out my nightvision.

Every single light doesn't need to be the same or have the same UI, variety is good for the user and the overall hobby.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 17, 2008)

This is why I personally like the two stage switches. Press soft for low. Press hard for high. No programming needed, and I'm able to make stuff like a TW4 clone work with a really good low and a wall of light high with zero programming needed.

I think though that SureFire's competing against HDS and Novatac on this one. So having some sort of UI is needed here.

-Steve


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## yaesumofo (Jan 17, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

First of all this is way off topic BUT. The P60L EAS specifically designed for the G2 and 6P.
Both of those lights can easily handle the "80 Lumen" the P60L puts out.
The Incandescent globes designed for both of these lights get somewhat warmer than the P60L. There are much more powerful Drop in units available which perform perfectly in both of these lights. 
The limiting factors within the P60L are all it's own.
Yaesumofo




KeyGrip said:


> Probably not. The 6P and G2 weren't designed with the P60L in mind, so there were multiple restraints on what that drop in could do. This looks to be a new light, designed from the ground up around an emitter, and have no doubt that the light will be able to hold it's output for longer than the G2L. For reference, I cite the new E2L's runtime curve, or lack thereof.


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## Lightingguy321 (Jan 17, 2008)

Beast master, your PDF files do not open, it says that the file is not a supported format or the data is broken.


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## greenLED (Jan 17, 2008)

Lightingguy321 said:


> Beast master, your PDF files do not open, it says that the file is not a supported format or the data is broken.


both work OK for me


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## Beastmaster (Jan 17, 2008)

I used Adobe 8 - it should be backwards compatible.

If not - I extracted each page out as a JPEG too. I also posted it to where it's a direct IP and no DNS resolution needed.

Try these links:

http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1b.pdf
http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup.pdf

JPEG's
http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1b_Page_1.jpg
http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1b_Page_2.jpg

http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup_Page_1.jpg
http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup_Page_2.jpg
http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup_Page_3.jpg
http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup_Page_4.jpg
http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup_Page_5.jpg (This one has the E1B in it)
http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup_Page_6.jpg
http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup_Page_7.jpg
http://72.215.196.56/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup_Page_8.jpg


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## Federal LG (Jan 17, 2008)

KeyGrip said:


> No



Sorry but... How do you know ?

Is it correct to presume that it will have more throw than mine SF L1 Cree ?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 17, 2008)

That we don't know yet unless you are part of the super secret test team.

All kidding aside - that's a question that will have to be answered when someone gets it in their hands.

My primary dealer that I work with said he's ordering extras if he can get them - he's thinking that the Backup will be a hit.

February is the magic month. Just enough time for me to save up for that.



Federal LG said:


> Is it correct to presume that it will have more throw than mine SF L1 Cree ?


----------



## Size15's (Jan 17, 2008)

Federal LG said:


> Is it correct to presume that [the E1B] will have more throw than mine SF L1 Cree ?


You'd have to presume that SureFire would use a different TIR optic than the one being used in the L1/KX1/KX2/X300 ?


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## Federal LG (Jan 17, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> That we don't know yet unless you are part of the super secret test team.
> 
> All kidding aside - that's a question that will have to be answered when someone gets it in their hands.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the answer BeastM. :thumbsup:

But the waiting is killing me. Damn CPF !


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 17, 2008)

Is the KX1 really a TIR? Mine's all shiny reflector and a huge pyrex window. I know that the docs say it is, but what really constitutes a TIR? Or am I used to the bug-eyes that the final gen KL1 had?

-Steve



Size15's said:


> You'd have to presume that SureFire would use a different TIR optic than the one being used in the L1/KX1/KX2/X300 ?


----------



## glockboy (Jan 17, 2008)




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## CallMeDave (Jan 17, 2008)

Direct link to the photo on the Surefire site still works (for now):

http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/E1B_large2.jpg


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## Federal LG (Jan 17, 2008)

Size15's said:


> You'd have to presume that SureFire would use a different TIR optic than the one being used in the L1/KX1/KX2/X300 ?



Sorry 15´s... but I don´t understand. (English is not my mother language...)


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## Size15's (Jan 17, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> Is the KX1 really a TIR? Mine's all shiny reflector and a huge pyrex window. I know that the docs say it is, but what really constitutes a TIR? Or am I used to the bug-eyes that the final gen KL1 had?
> 
> -Steve


Yes the KX1 really does feature a TIR optic. It's a different design to previous TIR optics and I can understand how people can confuse it with a reflector. I assure you it is an optic and not a reflector


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## Size15's (Jan 17, 2008)

Federal LG said:


> Sorry 15´s... but I don´t understand. (English is not my mother language...)


SureFire have stated on their now-removed webpage that the E1B features a TIR optic.
The bezel is the same size as the L1's, KX1, KX2, X300 bezels so it likely uses the same TIR optic.

The only way to know for certain is to take them apart to find out or have a number of each model to compare beams.


----------



## MicroE (Jan 17, 2008)

I still haven't received my Titan, and SF is about to release another new light!?


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## KeyGrip (Jan 17, 2008)

Federal LG said:


> Sorry but... How do you know ?



I'm sorry Federal, I put more detail in my post. To sum up, a solid head like the one on the E1B shouldn't have the same heat sinking problems.


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## Federal LG (Jan 17, 2008)

Size15's said:


> SureFire have stated on their now-removed webpage that the E1B features a TIR optic.
> The bezel is the same size as the L1's, KX1, KX2, X300 bezels so it likely uses the same TIR optic.
> 
> The only way to know for certain is to take them apart to find out or have a number of each model to compare beams.



Huummm... now I got it. 

I *HOPE* it has more throw than my L1 Cree... hehe.


----------



## light_emitting_dude (Jan 17, 2008)

That sure was a teaser! It will be interesting to see what else SF has in store for us this year.

WOW! 3700 hits in about 24 hours. This thread is on fire:sweat:


----------



## Burgess (Jan 17, 2008)

"the Backup" . . . .



That's a *good* thing for Law-Enforcement Officers. :thumbsup:



That's a *bad* thing for Plumbers and Proctologists. :thumbsdow





BTW, i'm *quite amazed* this thread has (currently) 

*3 times* as many posts as the "Lumiled Rebel Recall" thread.


-


----------



## mcmc (Jan 17, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> Well, since it's somewhat disappearing off of Surefire's web servers, I've taken the liberty of archiving the pages in PDF format.
> 
> http://www.yeefamily.us/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1b.pdf
> http://www.yeefamily.us/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup.pdf
> ...



Thanks for providing the pdf's!

Looks like a sweet light! And the pricing's dang good too. Compare to the L1 Cree for example.

It's obvious a lot of thought has gone into the design. That's a great 2-way clip, very unobtrusive, and frankly I've been wanting an SF with bezel-down carry as it makes it less prone to falling out of pocket and also protects the most important part of the light. But everyone gets the option with this clip anyway. Also the single button 2-stage UI is pretty bomb-proof. For the LEOs and undercover policemen that they say this light was designed for, in a stressed situation the light would behave like a single-stage L4 - press for momentary, click for on.

Great design. Ugly, but great functional design =) I'd be in for one.


----------



## Ty_Bower (Jan 17, 2008)

Pardon my crappy photo editing skills, but I think you'll get the idea. Do you know what I _really_ want? The Surefire E1 Digital Ultra...


----------



## Illumination (Jan 17, 2008)

Ty_Bower said:


> Pardon my crappy photo editing skills, but I think you'll get the idea. Do you know what I _really_ want? The Surefire E1 Digital Ultra...



Now that's a hot idea!


----------



## dano (Jan 17, 2008)

Size15's said:


> SureFire have stated on their now-removed webpage that the E1B features a TIR optic.
> The bezel is the same size as the L1's, KX1, KX2, X300 bezels so it likely uses the same TIR optic.
> 
> The only way to know for certain is to take them apart to find out or have a number of each model to compare beams.




BUT, I have two of the new L1's and they have different windows: one is frosted, which gives a wide spill and the other is not, which gives a really long throwing hotspot.

The TIR is there, but there are differences between the generations, I guess..

--dan


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 17, 2008)

No problem. I'm glad that I did archive it. This is what you get now.









mcmc said:


> Thanks for providing the pdf's!


----------



## KeyGrip (Jan 17, 2008)

Ty_Bower said:


> Pardon my crappy photo editing skills, but I think you'll get the idea. Do you know what I _really_ want? The Surefire E1 Digital Ultra...



Science has yet to create a machine capable of quantifying how much that would rock.


----------



## Phredd (Jan 17, 2008)

CallMeDave said:


> Direct link to the photo on the Surefire site still works (for now):
> 
> http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/E1B_large2.jpg



Thanks to all who archived the web pages and for this link that still works. I would have missed it.  It seems for now, you can also view the large close-up (without the hand):

http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/E1B_large.jpg


----------



## cv3po (Jan 17, 2008)

Oh man! SF was my first foray into the wide (not so wide at the time.........10+ years ago) world of premium flashlights. Since my last SF, an E2 about 6 years ago, I have not bought a SF light. There are so many others to choose from and since my life didn't literally depend on my torch I felt comfy with other, less expensive brands. Lately they have come out with some nice lights (I want an L1) and now the E1B is here. If it had the same switch as the L1 I'd call it perfect in my book. I do not, however, have a whole lot of faith in SF clickies. I can only hope that they make available a twisty switch like the one on the L1. The E1B is in my mind the most exciting SF in quite some time. It takes my favorite SF to date, the L1, and gives it a lower longer running low and a higher high beam all in a smaller/sexier package with a nicely designed clip and still somehow makes it less expensive. Simple 2-stage low-low/high-high interface and SF quality.................mama I'm coming home :kiss:


----------



## ampdude (Jan 17, 2008)

Ty_Bower said:


> Pardon my crappy photo editing skills, but I think you'll get the idea. Do you know what I _really_ want? The Surefire E1 Digital Ultra...





THATS *BEYOND* COOL!


----------



## ampdude (Jan 17, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> Well, since it's somewhat disappearing off of Surefire's web servers, I've taken the liberty of archiving the pages in PDF format.
> 
> http://www.yeefamily.us/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1b.pdf
> http://www.yeefamily.us/sgyee/cpf/e1b/e1blineup.pdf
> ...



Thanks man works great. :thumbsup: I saved them.


----------



## 270winchester (Jan 18, 2008)

meh, after thinking about it i will most likely get one. it is shorter than the L1 and I really like the clip, the higher output sure would be nice too.


----------



## Crenshaw (Jan 18, 2008)

Hmmm, i guess we (I) can be a little critical about stuff....but still, its honest feedback...:shrug:

whats insane is this thread, what 7 pages in two days?


Crenshaw


----------



## CrazyCarl (Jan 18, 2008)

Then of course there is the Google cache for anyone who wants to give themselves a closer feeling:
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...esent=0+surefire+e1b&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

I don't know if this will eventually "update" to the dead page eventually or not.


I am guessing Surefire is slightly more expensive than they ought to be at the retail end, or else they wouldn't have what I gather is a policy against dealers selling at discounts. But then it's still possible to look hard enough and find a good deal. You can find a $96 E2E for about $80 on that evil auction website, so maybe a $110 MSRP Surefire will be $90 once the sure-to-come buying frenzy for the E1B settles down.

$90 vs a $50 fenix also doesn't seem too high for US vs. Chinese pricing.

I like having only 2 modes. A lot of those fancy Chinese flashlights are ridiculous. 12 modes is just too damn complicated to click through, although Fenix does also have a good solution with their "turbo" mode system.

I might still prefer the L1. The 2-level button is really neat, vs. the regular clickie cycling of the e1b.


----------



## glockboy (Jan 18, 2008)

The SF E1B clip look like the clip from Mr. Bulk LionHeart.


----------



## FlashSpyJ (Jan 18, 2008)

light_emitting_dude said:


> That sure was a teaser! It will be interesting to see what else SF has in store for us this year.
> 
> WOW! 3700 hits in about 24 hours. This thread is on fire:sweat:



I had a feeling yesterday, that SF put the new light on their site, and later removed it, just to get CPF response! An easy way to get input from the public, and public that are more interested than "regular" people. 


This is only my own thoughts, I really dont know why they removed it from their site, maybe I missed it in this thread? :thinking:

Its just a thought...


----------



## FlashSpyJ (Jan 18, 2008)

Ty_Bower said:


> Pardon my crappy photo editing skills, but I think you'll get the idea. Do you know what I _really_ want? The Surefire E1 Digital Ultra...




  (if the output would be like up to 200 lumen  )


----------



## paulr (Jan 18, 2008)

Ty_Bower said:


> Pardon my crappy photo editing skills, but I think you'll get the idea. Do you know what I _really_ want? The Surefire E1 Digital Ultra...



That's called a Spy 005 / 007


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 18, 2008)

SF L1: 1.5 h x 65 L = 97.5 lumenhour
SF E1B: 1.3 h x 80 L =104 lumenhour
That is only 6.7% difference, which equals going up one Cree bin.
I would have expected the difference to be bigger, but maybe L1 already have a Q5 and then it makes sense.

I will definitely get this light, just hope they will make a E2B as well with even higher output and that can use 17670 Li-Ions.

Sigbjoern


----------



## lightemup (Jan 18, 2008)

Thanks Beastmaster for the pdf 

The E1B looks very promising so far, wish I could get to SHOT this year...


----------



## kevin812367 (Jan 18, 2008)

Anyone know why Surefire took the E1B off their site. When you search for it "This page has been unpublished" comes up. :thinking:


----------



## magic_elf (Jan 18, 2008)

I have a feeling many complain about the similarities to the already abundant (not to mention cheaper) Chinese made lights


----------



## rtt (Jan 18, 2008)

I can't wait to get one in my hands to try out. If the ergonomics are good, I will buy it.:twothumbs


----------



## MSaxatilus (Jan 18, 2008)

> I have a feeling many complain about the similarities to the already abundant (not to mention cheaper) Chinese made lights


 

....still rather have a Surefire. :nana:

MSax


----------



## Fooboy (Jan 18, 2008)

Lurveleven said:


> SF L1: 1.5 h x 65 L = 97.5 lumenhour
> SF E1B: 1.3 h x 80 L =104 lumenhour
> That is only 6.7% difference, which equals going up one Cree bin.
> I would have expected the difference to be bigger, but maybe L1 already have a Q5 and then it makes sense.
> ...


 
Interesting...


----------



## Alan (Jan 18, 2008)

Lurveleven said:


> SF L1: 1.5 h x 65 L = 97.5 lumenhour
> just hope they will make a E2B as well with even higher output and that can use 17670 Li-Ions.
> 
> Sigbjoern



I doubt about if SF would do that. Having supported voltage from 3.0v to 6v for Cree would be less efficient than a simple boost or buck driver.

Alan


----------



## Masque (Jan 18, 2008)

It's absolutely mind-boggling to me that people would consider comparing this item to "less expensive" lights. Clearly this mindset isn't well-served by paying extra for a Surefire, and there must be a reason for that. 

The best reason I can think of is something along these lines: The type of person that doesn't see additional value in Surefire would be the type who uses a light for perhaps six months, and/or in VERY light duty. 

For the rest of us (for convenience, I'll refer to this group as "the vast majority of the general public") Surefire is often cheaper. Quick test case: Call the manufacturer of your less-expensive light (do they have a phone number? Can you call it for less than the price of your light?) and repeat what I said to Surefire last week. Substitute the model of your light where I talk about theirs:



> "Hi. I cracked the window on my A2. It's a little half-moon crack, probably mostly cosmetic, but it bugs me. It's my fault completely - I beat the heck out of this light for the past four years. How much will it cost to fix this?"



For comparison, here's Surefire's reply:



> "Your RMA number is XXXXXXX. Ship it to us; there will be no charge. Thanks for choosing our products."



That's a $4 expense on a four year old light. A light that's still useful and interesting. How much did your manufacturer quote you for a similar repair?

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't trade my P3D Q5 for anything (until the P3D R4 comes out, that is)! It's a fantastic light. A wonderful example of illumination technology. But my Surefire is a _tool_, and when it comes time to _rely_ on the P3D, my A2 is always there as a backup. Always. Starting to see the genesis of this new light yet? 

(Apologies to those of you rolling your eyes. But eleventy posts into this thread, did you really expect new and fresh content?)


----------



## Fooboy (Jan 18, 2008)

Masque said:


> It's absolutely mind-boggling to me that people would consider comparing this item to "less expensive" lights. Clearly this mindset isn't well-served by paying extra for a Surefire, and there must be a reason for that.
> 
> The best reason I can think of is something along these lines: The type of person that doesn't see additional value in Surefire would be the type who uses a light for perhaps six months, and/or in VERY light duty.
> 
> ...


 
Well said. :thumbsup:


----------



## Federal LG (Jan 18, 2008)

Masque said:


> It's absolutely mind-boggling to me that people would consider comparing this item to "less expensive" lights. Clearly this mindset isn't well-served by paying extra for a Surefire, and there must be a reason for that.
> 
> The best reason I can think of is something along these lines: The type of person that doesn't see additional value in Surefire would be the type who uses a light for perhaps six months, and/or in VERY light duty.
> 
> ...



I do understand what you´ve said, but I don´t think Surefire is a cheap light. But I don´t think it´s a expensive light either. I just think Surefire lights has a quality that justify it´s prices. You are paying for superior quality of construction. Period.

Anyway, I have a SF... and I like my SF. But I don´t live in US, so I think that this outstandig customer service is useless to me, unfortunately. So, I just paid for the light, with no customer service attached.


----------



## KeyGrip (Jan 18, 2008)

kevin812367 said:


> Anyone know why Surefire took the E1B off their site. When you search for it "This page has been unpublished" comes up. :thinking:



The page was, apparently, published too early. There are two possibilities: 
1) Someone made an honest mistake and put it up too soon.

2) It's a marketing technique to drum up interest in the brand and get the idea out that SureFire has new models which will be formally introduced at SHOT 2008. 

I think it's option number two, and you know what? It worked on me! I was interested in seeing if SureFire was going to show upgraded Lux V lights, but that's about all I was expecting. Now the E1B pops up, and I don't know what to expect. I'm more excited now to see what SF has in the pipeline than I was before.


----------



## IcantC (Jan 18, 2008)

KeyGrip said:


> The page was, apparently, published too early. There are two possibilities:
> 1) Someone made an honest mistake and put it up too soon.
> 
> 2) It's a marketing technique to drum up interest in the brand and get the idea out that SureFire has new models which will be formally introduced at SHOT 2008.
> ...


 

Right, can't wait to see what they release. I was reading about the 5 new lights they have out. I cannot believe 2 of them actually have Q5 CREE in them! Let me attach the file....










Oh wait, wishful thinking


----------



## gottawearshades (Jan 18, 2008)

Yes, I too have dreamed of a one-cell U2.

However, I am just happy that Surefire found a way to make a pocket light that does not cost $500.

Cheers.



Ty_Bower said:


> Pardon my crappy photo editing skills, but I think you'll get the idea. Do you know what I _really_ want? The Surefire E1 Digital Ultra...


----------



## MSaxatilus (Jan 18, 2008)

> However, I am just happy that Surefire found a way to make a pocket light that does not cost $500.


 
... good Lord, give it a rest!!! OK, we get it, the Titan is expensive. 

The last time I checked, Surefire didn't force ANYONE to pay $500 for that light. 

Spelled.... "C O N S U M E R C H O I C E"

MSax


----------



## janwe (Jan 18, 2008)

KeyGrip said:


> ...
> 2) It's a marketing technique to drum up interest in the brand and get the idea out that SureFire has new models which will be formally introduced at SHOT 2008.
> ....




Yeah, option two I guess... marketing at its best! :thumbsup:

Just two weeks for possible SS2008 release announcements.
Let's hope for the best!

Cheers!
:buddies:


----------



## Burgess (Jan 18, 2008)

My goodness !


Some of these *Titan owners* are certainly touchy. 




Back on topic --

This flashlight sounds interesting for lots of reasons.

Hope that SureFire ships 'em out soon. :thumbsup:


Hey, how about making a *CPF Limited-Edition* run in Purple. :twothumbs

_


----------



## MSaxatilus (Jan 18, 2008)

> Some of these *Titan owners* are certainly touchy.


 
.... The OWNERS aren't the ones that keep pointing out in every SF thread (or any other opportunity) that the Titan is an expensive light. I know it is. Thanks for the reminder. Lets all move on.




> Hey, how about making a *CPF Limited-Edition* run in Purple. :twothumbs


 
+2 
Burgess, that's a killer idea!!! I'd be all over that too!! Just for something completely different than black or HA!! :twothumbs

MSax


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 18, 2008)

Just on a side note - since I've posted the PDF of what the page looked like before it got yanked, I took a look at the log analysis on that web virtual directory.

2462 hits since I posted it. Very interesting - and if it was purposeful that SureFire did this to drum up interest - it worked.

-Steve


----------



## MSaxatilus (Jan 18, 2008)

> 2462 hits since I posted it. Very interesting - and if it was purposeful that SureFire did this to drum up interest - it worked.


 
Worked on me. I want one.

MSax


----------



## gottawearshades (Jan 18, 2008)

I was just flamed because I made an observation that the only multi-level pocket light in the Surefire line-up costs $500, and I think it's a good move to offer one at a different price point. For this, I got slammed.

I have never made any comments about the the Titan. I have not made many comments on CPF at all.

Thanks for making the new guy feel welcome.

I did not even know you owned a Titan, MSaxatilus. I was not making a personal criticism of how you or anybody else spends their money. 

So, if I wasn't making a personal attack on you, I guess you flamed me because you don't think I have the right to make comments either about Surefire or about the Titan. So I guess I don't know quite what to make of this. 

I am tempted to tell you to take your Titan and stick it in your pocket for all I care.




MSaxatilus said:


> ... good Lord, give it a rest!!! OK, we get it, the Titan is expensive.
> 
> The last time I checked, Surefire didn't force ANYONE to pay $500 for that light.
> 
> ...


----------



## NA8 (Jan 18, 2008)

Interesting addition to the L1 & E1L lights. I guess this makes the Lumapower LM33 the official poor man's E1B.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 18, 2008)

Yeah, but the LM33 is a reverse click. Big difference, in my book.



NA8 said:


> Interesting addition to the L1 & E1L lights. I guess this makes the Lumapower LM33 the official poor man's E1B.


----------



## Size15's (Jan 18, 2008)

KeyGrip said:


> The page was, apparently, published too early. There are two possibilities:
> 1) Someone made an honest mistake and put it up too soon.
> 
> 2) It's a marketing technique to drum up interest in the brand and get the idea out that SureFire has new models which will be formally introduced at SHOT 2008.
> ...


This is not the first time this has happened - pages have been published too early by mistake and then taken down. I can't remember which product it was though.


----------



## Phredd (Jan 18, 2008)

gottawearshades said:


> Yes, I too have dreamed of a one-cell U2.



Me, too. That's why I'm so happy with my TITAN !!!


I just think it should have been priced at about $475. :^)

It really is tiresome that without fail, everyone criticizes the price of Surefire lights even though there are plenty of other $300, $400 and $500 lights sold here on CPF. Maybe we could add a forum rule...

Phredd


----------



## BigD64 (Jan 18, 2008)

If all goes according to plan I should have an E1B in my hand by the end of the month. 

If it's like my E1L 2 stage it is cycles as such: 

momentary on............. Low, if you click it stays on low
2nd momentary .......... High, if you click it stays on high

Mine is about 15 lumens on low and somewhere around 50 on high.

I will keep you posted .....no pun intended.......but it was pretty funny anyway.


----------



## Burgess (Jan 18, 2008)

to *GottaWearShades* --


Welcome to CandlePowerForums !

:welcome:


Thank you for your participation and contributions here. :thumbsup:


We have a truly *great* buncha' members here at CPF.


But, sometimes, once-in-a-while, things are said 

in haste, or in jest . . . .


or, the* intended* meaning somehow did not _come-through_ as planned.


I know. I've been guilty of this myself.


That's one consequence of "keyboard communication", rather than face-to-face.


No need to take any postings "too seriously" here.


We are all friends on CPF.
Even if we've never actually met each other.

:wave:

_


----------



## Federal LG (Jan 18, 2008)

Burgess said:


> My goodness !
> 
> 
> Some of these *Titan owners* are certainly touchy.
> ...



Hummm... I don´t know if I like purple. Looks like Barbie´s flashlight. Why not navy blue, or desert tan. Just a opinion... hehe


----------



## Federal LG (Jan 18, 2008)

Burgess said:


> to *GottaWearShades* --
> 
> 
> Welcome to CandlePowerForums !
> ...



*Burgess said it all! :welcome:*


----------



## KeyGrip (Jan 18, 2008)

Federal LG said:


> Hummm... I don´t know if I like purple. Looks like Barbie´s flashlight. Why not navy blue, or desert tan. Just a opinion... hehe



Seems a lot of the CPF special lights have been a shade of red.


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Jan 18, 2008)

THANKS CPF! You guys just found my next surefire! I'm glad I held off from getting an L1. 80 surefire lumens for over an hour is awesome. Love the looks.


----------



## bondr006 (Jan 18, 2008)

This one will definitely be added to the collection. I won't be able to stop carrying my ML1 though, so I'll just have to find a place to carry a third light. 3 EDC's isn't too excessive is it?


----------



## yaesumofo (Jan 18, 2008)

I for one will be buying a E1B. No doubt about it. It is a light which fits my EDC style.
I EDC a PD mizer from McGizmo most of the time. IMHO this light seems pretty close to that in terms of function and size.
at about 1/3rd the price.
Yaesumofo


----------



## yaesumofo (Jan 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

So any other pre shot show "rumors" ?

Yaesumofo


Size15's said:


> This is not the first time this has happened - pages have been published too early by mistake and then taken down. I can't remember which product it was though.


----------



## Zenster (Jan 18, 2008)

CandlePowerForumsUser said:


> THANKS CPF! You guys just found my next surefire! I'm glad I held off from getting an L1. 80 surefire lumens for over an hour is awesome. Love the looks.


 
That's what I was thinking. I was "this close" to ordering a new L1, but this light improves on the L1 and also takes the same filters that my E1L does (and that the L1 would have), and I especially like the two-way clip. Nice touch, there.

Frankly, it appears to me that the E1B is really a total replacement for the L1 in the Surefire product line.


----------



## Illumination (Jan 18, 2008)

New name proposed:

E1GTB 

"E1 Got To Buy"


----------



## ICspots (Jan 19, 2008)

MSaxatilus said:


> ... good Lord, give it a rest!!! OK, we get it, the Titan is expensive.
> 
> The last time I checked, Surefire didn't force ANYONE to pay $500 for that light.
> 
> ...



Well in gottawearshades defense his comment was NOT taken negatively by me when I read it, but MSaxatilus's reply defintiely came accross negative. I see the complaints about the higher than usual cost of Surefire and just ignore the posts. Personally I grow tired of the negative "you are beating a dead horse" replies they get. You aren't making it better by doing this, you are making it worse and wasting precious forum space to boot. $500 for a flashlight isn't for me, but it is fine if thats what you want. Doesn't mean we can't be friends right? Just a constructive observation that negativity will get you no where, positivity (is that even a word?) will get you further. 
BOT(back on topic) I will most probably buy this light instead of the L1 I have been "eyeing" for quite some time now.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 19, 2008)

I'll be buying this light by the bucket...


----------



## z282z06 (Jan 19, 2008)

The e2d is 110 dollars and I see people on here clamoring to pay 100 dollars or more to put a kl4 head on the light, (myself included) which makes it twice what the new light costs retail. (and tears up your clothes!)

How many people buy 80 dollar xenon bulb lights then spend 50 bucks to upgrade them to LED? 

They may "list" for 110.00 but everyone knows the stores will be discounting them in no time. Prices seek their own level. What ever the market will bear. 

Surefire has done right by me everytime, no questions asked. That's worth something to me. I see guys saving 30 bucks on a different brand flashlight and then read in a review how you have to replace a switch in a year or so in this model or that one. In the end what did we save?

I think the "backup" moniker is aimed at law enforcement as they often carry a smaller backup weapon. Why not a light also? It's just marketing, which doesn't change the function of the light in any way. Who reads the side of their flashlights regularly after you get them? I can't see that bothering me, especially enough to make me not buy the light.


----------



## kodiak (Jan 19, 2008)

I was eyeballing the new L1 also. I think I will wait for the E1B to come out. It looks like a winner on paper.... to me anyway!


----------



## p1fiend (Jan 19, 2008)

CandlePowerForumsUser said:


> 80 surefire lumens for over an hour is awesome.


 
Sorry to make the comparison, but I gotta ask:

I know "Surefire Lumens" and "Fenix lumens" are apples to oranges. But with 107 lumens (2hrs) and 180 lumens (1hrs) from the P2D Q5, how are 80 Surefire Lumens for 1 hr that impressive?

And yes, I HAVE compared a new SF LED 6P (80 lumens) to my P2D Q5 and the Fenix was significantly brighter both on a white wall and outdoors.


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Jan 19, 2008)

p1fiend said:


> Sorry to make the comparison, but I gotta ask:
> 
> I know "Surefire Lumens" and "Fenix lumens" are apples to oranges. But with 107 lumens (2hrs) and 180 lumens (1hrs) from the P2D Q5, how are 80 Surefire Lumens for 1 hr that impressive?
> 
> And yes, I HAVE compared a new SF LED 6P (80 lumens) to my P2D Q5 and the Fenix was significantly brighter both on a white wall and outdoors.



:sick2: 

Thanks for playing but you lose. :thumbsdow


----------



## MSaxatilus (Jan 19, 2008)

> I was just flamed because I made an observation that the only multi-level pocket light in the Surefire line-up costs $500, and I think it's a good move to offer one at a different price point. For this, I got slammed.
> 
> I have never made any comments about the the Titan. I have not made many comments on CPF at all.
> 
> ...


 
Gottawearshades,

Sorry if I offended you. I wasn't trying to flame you as much as the entire lot of folks that have continually complained about the price of the Titan and other Surefire lights. Here at this forum, I have seen lights range from a few dollars to well over several thousand. 

But recently alot of threads have been completely derailed from thier intended purpose. The Titan threads are an example.

I mistook your post as another attempt at this and I jumped on it to cut it off quickly to keep this thread on path and I'm not appologizing to anyone that has a problem with the cost of the Titan though. You have a problem with Surefire's pricing. Don't buy a Surefire. 

So again, I publically appologize, and welcome to CPF. As my buddy Burgess said 



> We are all friends on CPF.


 
Seriously, welcome!! :welcome:

MSax


----------



## jzmtl (Jan 19, 2008)

CandlePowerForumsUser said:


> :sick2:
> 
> Thanks for playing but you lose. :thumbsdow



He lose what, not making an uncalled for comment like yours?


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## DM51 (Jan 19, 2008)

p1fiend and CandlePowerForumUser, stop bickering.

jzmtl, your post #255 is gratuitous baiting. Cut it out. 

This thread is about the Surefire E1B Backup, nothing else. Please keep it on that topic and do not sidetrack on to other matters.


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## gottawearshades (Jan 19, 2008)

MSaxatilus said:


> So again, I publically appologize, and welcome to CPF. As my buddy Burgess said
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I appreciate your saying this. No harm done. Now let's get back on topic and talk about flashlights.

Cheers


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## jeffb (Jan 19, 2008)

p1fiend said:


> Sorry to make the comparison, but I gotta ask:
> 
> I know "Surefire Lumens" and "Fenix lumens" are apples to oranges. But with 107 lumens (2hrs) and 180 lumens (1hrs) from the P2D Q5, how are 80 Surefire Lumens for 1 hr that impressive?
> 
> And yes, I HAVE compared a new SF LED 6P (80 lumens) to my P2D Q5 and the Fenix was significantly brighter both on a white wall and outdoors.



There are forum members that are focused on "brightness" and brightness with value; there are those that value beam tint, spill and runtime, There are those that seem to prefer custom lights and unusual design, machining and exceptional quality.

I would ask, what is impressive about the Fenix, other than brightness??

I have several Fenix and have given some as gifts...nice lights for the cost....Impressive.... not to me......functional, surely, seemingly well built, surely, cost effective, surely. Value....I would say, surely.

Impressive....no. (NOT to me) I have better built (my opinion), much brighter, better runtime, much better knurling and anodizing, that impress ME.

My McGizmo lights, Spy 005 (amazing design and build) lights, Endeavour built lights,(CR2 Ions and Nautilus) Surefire Titan (due to variable brightness control,)U2, due to spill beam and easily controlled brightness level.

To ME that is what is impressive..... 

If you want to compare Lumens or brightness and runtime, please do so, however I am convinced that that is one variable of many. If that is your thing....by all means, buy the brightest (and longest running) and sell the Surefire to buy more Fenix. Perhaps you will be happy. I tend to buy lights that I use for specific purposes and buy 1 cell lights that attract my attention, due to many variables....most likely I will continue to do the same. I will also think it is great, if you like what you choose and buy and I will be interested in same 

I just had to say so.........and I am NOT sorry at all to make the comparison. As I mentioned before, when you are able to hold one(E1B) and evaluate with other lights and talk with others that have used and evaluated....perhaps than we can discuss "Impressive"?? :shrug:

jeffb


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## light_emitting_dude (Jan 19, 2008)

I am hoping that SF can deliver us their new lights (espically this E1B) sooner this year. If I remember correctly it was about mid-year last year before we saw the L1. 

Or is it just common for SF to deliver their new lights mid-year?


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## adirondackdestroyer (Jan 19, 2008)

p1fiend said:


> Sorry to make the comparison, but I gotta ask:
> 
> I know "Surefire Lumens" and "Fenix lumens" are apples to oranges. But with 107 lumens (2hrs) and 180 lumens (1hrs) from the P2D Q5, how are 80 Surefire Lumens for 1 hr that impressive?
> 
> And yes, I HAVE compared a new SF LED 6P (80 lumens) to my P2D Q5 and the Fenix was significantly brighter both on a white wall and outdoors.



To be perfectly honest 80 lumens for 1.5 hours is not impressive compared to current 1x123 lights. The Olight T10 Q5 puts out around 75-80 lumens on level 4 and it runs for over 2.5 hours on that level. I would imagine the P2D Q5 would give over 80 lumens on high and run for 2.5-3 hours. 
Alot of people on here REALLY REALLY like Surefire, and have been waiting for a nice single cell pocket light from them for quite a while. So that is why there is such an uproar about this light. Not because of the actual performance, but more because it looks like a very nice light made by Surefire.


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## NA8 (Jan 19, 2008)

I recall reading the SF A2 electronics had conformal coating. Do all the Surefire lights have conformal coating on the circuit boards or is it just some ? 

The reason I was asking is I recall in the old days, conformal coating meant you had to derate your component wattage ratings somewhat due to the insulating effect. This could be a reason the Surefire lights don't have quite the specs that say a Fenix does, but only if they indeed have the conformal coated circuit boards.


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## Size15's (Jan 19, 2008)

NA8 said:


> I recall reading the SF A2 electronics had conformal coating. Do all the Surefire lights have conformal coating on the circuit boards or is it just some ?
> 
> The reason I was asking is I recall in the old days, conformal coating meant you had to derate your component wattage ratings somewhat due to the insulating effect. This could be a reason the Surefire lights don't have quite the specs that say a Fenix does, but only if they indeed have the conformal coated circuit boards.


I believe all SureFire PCBs do so that they can be recovered in the event of water / contaminating liquid exposure.


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## Lightguy27 (Jan 19, 2008)

Ok, where is this light on the SF website?? When I click the link that Green LED posted it says page un published, going back to homepage?? I want one of these where is the page!!!!!

-Evan


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## Tempest UK (Jan 19, 2008)

Lightguy27 said:


> Ok, where is this light on the SF website?? When I click the link that Green LED posted it says page un published, going back to homepage?? I want one of these where is the page!!!!!
> 
> -Evan



Look on the previous page of this thread.

Regards,
Tempest


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## cv3po (Jan 19, 2008)

jeffb said:


> My McGizmo lights, Spy 005 (amazing design and build) lights, Endeavour built lights,(CR2 Ions and Nautilus) Surefire Titan (due to variable brightness control,)U2, due to spill beam and easily controlled brightness level.
> jeffb


 

Jeff..........PM sent


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## Kiessling (Jan 19, 2008)

> To be perfectly honest 80 lumens for 1.5 hours is not impressive compared to current 1x123 lights. The Olight T10 Q5 puts out around 75-80 lumens on level 4 and it runs for over 2.5 hours on that level. I would imagine the P2D Q5 would give over 80 lumens on high and run for 2.5-3 hours.


Not true.
The current top-of-the-line power LEDs like the Cree Q5 produce about 100lm at 350mA. Counting the usual losses of reflectors and lenses, about 60-80 will make it out the front of the light.
Now ... to arrive at a conservatively rated minimum spec of 80lm out the front of a light, you need to increase the drive current. We know that our usual converters we have in our premium custom lights will give us approximately 1.5h runtime on 500mA drive current to the LED, approximately, mind you. All depends on converter efficiency and Vin of the LED etc. ... but still ... an approximation.
So ... 80lm for 1.5h on 1xCR123 seems just about right and makes perfect sense when trying to quote a realistic minimum spec one can ask from the product they are buying.

When looking at this picture, I do not see where other companies could improve the performance of their products to a degree that it mattered in real world. They do not have better LEDs, I very much doubt they took the time and money to develop better converters, and even if they did ... the current ones are at 85%+ efficiency ... so no big gain here. I also cannot see significant improvement in the optical path compared to SFs tech.

So ... why do others claim significantly better specs?

Because they either do not measure the luminous flux of the flashlight, quote maximum spec, quote theoretical bulb lumens following the "perfect conditions" of the data sheet ... or because they are lying.

No one can cheat the laws of physics. 





> Alot of people on here REALLY REALLY like Surefire, and have been waiting for a nice single cell pocket light from them for quite a while. So that is why there is such an uproar about this light. Not because of the actual performance, but more because it looks like a very nice light made by Surefire.


Speculation and assuming on your part. How do you know? How many people did you ask? Did you ask those that have a nice SF single cell light ... the L1?
And ... are you sure when you say "performance" ... your audience understands the same thing? Is performance the result of luminous flux over time?

bernie


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## adirondackdestroyer (Jan 19, 2008)

Well, I don't have any way of testing the current that lights drive the emitter, but my Olight tests out at right around 75-80 lumens on my homemade lightbox (which is proven accurate) and according to Light-reviews.com it runs for over 2.5 hours at that setting. On the highest setting it is around 140 lumens and runs for nearly one hour on that setting, now that is impressive performance. Fenix seems to have even better runtime/output than Olight. I'm not sure here, but maybe Surefire isn't using the best bin Cree's out there? That's the only way Fenix could be this much more efficient, right? 
I'm not trying to get into an argument or anything. I was just trying to answer that guys question. 



Kiessling said:


> Not true.
> The current top-of-the-line power LEDs like the Cree Q5 produce about 100lm at 350mA. Counting the usual losses of reflectors and lenses, about 60-80 will make it out the front of the light.
> Now ... to arrive at a conservatively rated minimum spec of 80lm out the front of a light, you need to increase the drive current. We know that our usual converters we have in our premium custom lights will give us approximately 1.5h runtime on 500mA drive current to the LED, approximately, mind you. All depends on converter efficiency and Vin of the LED etc. ... but still ... an approximation.
> So ... 80lm for 1.5h on 1xCR123 seems just about right and makes perfect sense when trying to quote a realistic minimum spec one can ask from the product they are buying.
> ...



How do I know people on here like Surefire... are you kidding me? Dozens of people on here would buy damn near anything Surefire puts out, just because they made it.


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## GarageBoy (Jan 19, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

Real slick- kinda like Strider knives with the CC treatment


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## CandlePowerForumsUser (Jan 20, 2008)

Surefire threads will never go long without haters jumping in and trying to put down their products. Do us all a favor and just stay out of all Surefire threads. It'll make CPF a much better place. I for one am not brand loyal but it gets very tiresome when Brand X loyal customers jump in every Surefire thread just to put down any and all light they release. Just give it a break. From experience, 1 cr123 putting out 100+ emitter lumens for 1.3 hours is awesome. Hate all you want, just do it else where... its not welcomed in Surefire threads because Surefire owners know its more than just how bright a light is.

/end rant


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## BytorJr (Jan 20, 2008)

Yes, there are others that are be brighter out the front than the new Surefire; however, just like Henry's new HDS Twisty I have to ponder if Surefire is giving us a more "durable" LED or has some other reliability features we just don't know about? Surefire has built their reputation on that durability too. If you're in combat or LE, I'd think you're more worried about durability than an extra 20 lumens - I may be wrong though.


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## DM51 (Jan 20, 2008)

adirondackdestroyer, your contribution in post #267 is not helpful. You seem not to have read Kiessling's post before replying to it; or if you did read it, you seem to have missed the point he was making.

This thread will NOT descend into an anti-Surefire tirade, nor for that matter an anti-anything tirade.


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## Phredd (Jan 20, 2008)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> How do I know people on here like Surefire... are you kidding me?



That's some pretty slick politic-ing. He said you were speculating on WHY people would buy this light:



adirondackdestroyer said:


> Not because of the actual performance, but more because it looks like a very nice light made by Surefire.


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## bondr006 (Jan 20, 2008)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> How do I know people on here like Surefire... are you kidding me? Dozens of people on here would buy damn near anything Surefire puts out, just because they made it.



Again, a wrong assumption. I do love my Surefire lights, but it is NOT just simply because Surefire makes them, as I am sure is true of the other folks here that love their Surefires. We are not simple minded sheep as you would have people believe. The reasons we love our Surefires are very real, not just silly emotion.

1. Reasearch and Developement.
2. Engineering
3. Quality Materials
4. Fit and Finish
5. Quality Craftmanship
6. Quality Machining
7. Quality of the Beam the light puts out
8. Name and Reputation of Surefire - Tried and True
9. The many Stories and Accounts of Surefire Owners
10. The Best Warranty in the Industry
11. #10 Backed up and Implemented by the Best World Class Customer Service in the Industry

Oh sure, we also love the way our Surefire lights feel in our hands. The feel of quality, the balance, the feel of real substance, toughness, and durability. We know that we have lights that will be around for a lifetime, that we can rely on in any situation. We know we have a selection of lights to choose from that will fit the need of camping, walking at night, self defense, or just plain old general utility.

I am sure other Surefire owners can add to my list, but my point is that we have real reasons to love our Surefires, and choose the Surefire brand. There are many things to consider when figuring the value of a light....NOT just the brightness, and how cheap you can find it. For the reasons I listed above, my Surefires are priceless to me. So, before you go accusing us of being blind sheep who follow Surefire wherever they go....THINK REAL HARD about how ignorant your accusation might sound to those of us who consider more than just how bright and how cheap a light is when we choose what brand we purchase. To me the real sheep are those who consider the brightness of a light its only value, and therefore follow the brightness wherever it goes. If you don't like Surefire, that's fine. If you think it's too expensive, that's fine. By all means, don't buy Surefire.....But do please leave our Surefire threads alone. If you must berate Surefire, please feel free to start your own thread.

And yes....I will be buying the new E1B as soon as it is available, for all the reasons I listed above.


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## FlashSpyJ (Jan 20, 2008)

I havent been around as long as many of you, but long enough to think that its getting really old discussing for and against SureFire, and why people buys them. Cant we just discuss the question at hand? In almost every thread about a SureFire product, we seem to go off topic and make it a discussion about why you buy SureFires and why not etc. Alot of talk about the price and comparing to other brands. This could be good in enough doses, but in general I think there are just to much talk about things that are beside the main question.

Its hard enough to find good info about a product without having to read through page after page with heated discussions about SureFire.


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## adirondackdestroyer (Jan 20, 2008)

Jeez, sorry guys. If I would have known answering that original question would get so many people upset I wouldn't have even bothered. 
This light looks really nice and I'm sure will sell like hot cakes! I'm done in here.


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## Daniel_sk (Jan 20, 2008)

5 and 80 lumens, a perfect mix. I am tempted.


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## Blindasabat (Jan 20, 2008)

I don't think the E1B will replace the L1 for everyone because of the UI difference. The L1 switch can not be beat, INMHO. The E1B is a great light for what it is and I may get one, but for now I am too happy with my shorty L1 (gen1 head (SSC modded) on a gen 3 body or E1 body).


Zenster said:


> Frankly, it appears to me that the E1B is really a total replacement for the L1 in the Surefire product line.


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## Tempest UK (Jan 20, 2008)

Blindasabat said:


> I don't think the E1B will replace the L1 for everyone because of the UI difference. The L1 switch can not be beat, INMHO. The E1B is a great light for what it is and I may get one, but for now I am too happy with my shorty L1 (gen1 head (SSC modded) on a gen 3 body or E1 body).



Agreed. I can't see the E1B replacing the L1, mainly due to the UI. Also the E1B lacks knurling which may be important in deciding between the two.

Regards,
Tempest


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## Kiessling (Jan 20, 2008)

Yepp. I have doubts the E1B's UI will be able to replace the L1 for me. The L1 switch is among the best I know. Even my mom can use it properly without an explanation.
bernie


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## Blindasabat (Jan 20, 2008)

A quality dependable light you can count on even after recovering it from water, get great sevice, access two levels (two levels only), and clip it to your pocket up and down... is the reason there is so much excitement over this light. Being a Surefire means it has those qualities, which is why people like Surefire. I didn't favor SF at first, but eventually learned better, now using them more than any other. I have several SF and Fenix lights, and both have their uses. 


adirondackdestroyer said:


> ...
> Alot of people on here REALLY REALLY like Surefire, and have been waiting for a nice single cell pocket light from them for quite a while. So that is why there is such an uproar about this light. Not because of the actual performance, but more because it looks like a very nice light made by Surefire.


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## BSCOTT1504 (Jan 20, 2008)

I hope the new E1B is released soon enough that I can get one as a Christmas present for myself this year!!

I want one, I'm excited about it, but I'm not going to hold my breath until it hits the market...


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## paulr (Jan 20, 2008)

I agree with Blindasabat and Kiessling's logic about the L1 UI vs. the E1b's but still I find myself more interested in the E1b because of its styling and is smaller size. The L1 always seemed too big and ugly for my tastes despite its functional design being wonderful.


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## ttran97 (Jan 20, 2008)

I love my Milky modded ML1...165 lumen & 5 lumen in the style of the L1. It's my favorite light right now. I'll be buying this E1B when it comes out and use it as...get this...a _backup_. Imagine that...using a light as it was intended. Go figure!


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## Blindasabat (Jan 20, 2008)

I in turn agree with you about the size of the L1. I only briefly carried an L1 after I got it due to its size. I have since put together an L1 derivative that is smaller than the E1B: Gen1 head, E1E body, topped off with a McE2S two stage switch. The McE2S is stiffer then the L1 switch, so I put up with that to get an 83mm long light that has two L1-style levels and can put out 160+ lumens on RCR123.
I still may get an E1B for the nice clip and ability to put out 80+ lumens on a primary (backup batteries) which is my direct drive Mini-me L1's one other issue. It only gets 20-30-ish lumens on primaries.
One more note about the clip. I think it would be just as good (to Me) if it was attached at the tail for full in the pocket bezel down carry. The only type of clips I actually use are that type, like the LRI Proton.


paulr said:


> I agree with Blindasabat and Kiessling's logic about the L1 UI vs. the E1b's but still I find myself more interested in the E1b because of its styling and is smaller size. The L1 always seemed too big and ugly for my tastes despite its functional design being wonderful.


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## Size15's (Jan 20, 2008)

For me the E1e is way too short, and the E1L is too short. The E1B is right on the cusp. The L1 is about as short as I find comfortable. Ideally I prefer flashlights of the A2 size with the L2 being about as long as is easily EDC'able.


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## planex (Jan 20, 2008)

I like this light more and more each day. It will soon join my L1 and E1L. The compact one cell lights are a great form factor for me to EDC. Backup? It might very well become my primary!


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## techwg (Jan 20, 2008)

It looks interesting, but the only thing i have against surefire is that i cant afford most of the ones i would like. I do feel they could cut the cost down a little bit. I wanted a 6P for the longest time, but i have gone off incans now, so, until i get a windfall i will have to stay with lower cost lights, until this E1B comes out, then i may be interested in buying another Surefire. I never use my G2 because its incan, and i dont like the bulkiness in an EDC. So price dependant, i may end up buying one of these E1B' because the other LED lights that surefire offers do not stimulate my curiosity at all..


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## precisionworks (Jan 20, 2008)

> The L1 is about as short as I find comfortable.



Point well taken, Size15's. To me, the E2L feels 'normal', the L4 feels small (even though it is nearly the same size) and the L1 will probably feel tiny (when I snag one).

What's the best guess on availability? Mid summer maybe? Certainly in time for next Christmas:mecry:


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## Illumination (Jan 20, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Yepp. I have doubts the E1B's UI will be able to replace the L1 for me. The L1 switch is among the best I know. Even my mom can use it properly without an explanation.
> bernie



That's funny. Your mom must be a lot more technically adept than my girlfriend's friend. I loaned my L1 to my girlfriend's friend so she could get back to her hut on a trip (I was going to go back with some friends that had lights). The next morning I got back my L1 overtightened, with the switch no longer working. I had to rely on my backup for the rest of the trip. I couldnt figure out what she did to break it.

The good think was it was a surefire. I sent it back and they fixed it quickly and without question.

Moral of the story:
1) Have a cheap backup light that you can loan if posible (my backups were back in my hut so I had to lend out my L1)
2) Know that should a Surefire break, they will take care of you.


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## CrazyCarl (Jan 20, 2008)

Illumination said:


> The next morning I got back my L1 overtightened, with the switch no longer working.


 
I have observed many people forgetting which way things turn when dealing with unfamiliar objects. Their ability to regularly open jars and bottles seems to not drift over to screws, flashlights, etc. When this happens, they sometimes also do not considering that they may be doing something wrong, and will expend a shocking level of force before giving up.


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## Lightguy27 (Jan 21, 2008)

Size15's said:


> For me the E1e is way too short, and the E1L is too short. The E1B is right on the cusp. The L1 is about as short as I find comfortable. Ideally I prefer flashlights of the A2 size with the L2 being about as long as is easily EDC'able.


 

Hey Size 15's, do you know why the E1B appeared and then ?

-Evan


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## Monocrom (Jan 21, 2008)

Just a comment on its looks.... It looks more like something from LumaPower, than Surefire. Did anyone else get that impression?


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## rastaman (Jan 21, 2008)

​ 


  ​


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## Chrontius (Jan 21, 2008)

Phredd said:


> Me, too. That's why I'm so happy with my TITAN !!!
> 
> 
> I just think it should have been priced at about $475. :^)
> ...



Some of the stuff sold here has a total materials bill of upwards of $2000. Never mind labor.

If I'm gonna spend $500 on a flashlight like that, I want it to shine like the sun, run all night, all day, and all night on one battery, and fit in my jeans key pocket. I want 635 lumens/watt for that much money.

For a $100 budget, I may end up with this instead of the 2008 model Inova T2. Time will tell - ideally I'd get to play with them side-by-side.


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## Size15's (Jan 21, 2008)

Lightguy27 said:


> Hey Size 15's, do you know why the E1B appeared and then ?
> 
> -Evan


There seem to be two options.
1) Deliberately put up early and taken down [ahead of SHOT Show product release]

2) Accidentally put up early and taken down

I believe it was the 2nd option although some CPF members believe the 1st - their rational seemingly that SureFire is interested in the response - a means of gauging opinion. I suggest this places undue importance on the sorts of people who would notice such a happening and then discuss/comment on a forum SureFire would know about and follow. They'll get feedback at SHOT Show - there's not enough time to change anything as a result of gauging opinion between when it was accidentally shown and the show.

Al


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## StarHalo (Jan 21, 2008)

Is it just me or does the E1B look uncircumcised? :sick2:

Awesome stats though, a just right bright and a 24+ hour low, on a single cell. Could this be the first 1xCR123 "survival" light?

I delved into flashaholism with Fenix a few months ago, and haven't gotten a Surefire yet, since there previously wasn't one with the right kind of numbers, but this might be the one...


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## Monocrom (Jan 21, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> .... Could this be the first 1xCR123 "survival" light?


 
The first?.... The Inova 24/7 might hold that distinction.


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## paulr (Jan 21, 2008)

First CR123 survival light was probably the Tekna Splashlite in the 1980's.


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## StarHalo (Jan 21, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> Could this be the first 1xCR123 "survival" light?



I should be more specific -

When I think "survival light", I'm thinking along the lines of Tom Hanks in the movie _Cast Away_ (he didn't do so well with a MiniMag). Or at least Les Stroud in the television series _Survivorman_ (he doesn't even use flashlights!). It's going to go through a lot of use and abuse, and can't really be a one trick pony, so I'd go with something LED, multi modes with a marathon low mode for general use and a decent bright mode with some throw to spot something from a distance or to signal. 

Previously when doing this mental exercise, I'd come up with a limited number of flashlight options, but none of them were single cell. The E1B seems to fit the bill nicely - using Fenix's "survival mode" math (2 hours use per day), the Backup on low mode easily covers more than half a month. And the 80 lumens high mode is plenty for seeing what's making a noise outside your encampment. Pretty impressive for just one battery.


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## Numbers (Jan 21, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Just a comment on its looks.... It looks more like something from LumaPower, than Surefire. Did anyone else get that impression?


Yes, It certainly is not in the traditional look of SF's (which I consider to be almost works of art). 
But for me it's ok, I originally thought Oh No I just bought an L1 and now I have to start collecting a whole new series of SF lights. I got over as quick as they took it off their site. I dont like the looks, dont want the UI, and after the L1 (and KX2) I think I am done with optics for a while too. 
I am hoping for an updated L2 and L4 soon.

FWW I also think putting it up un the website was an error. I dont know who is running the office over there but they should pay more attention to detal. Just as they should with their customer service reps who in my opinion are not well trained -- they will tell you anything and have a different story every time I call in relation to my situation. But you guys give me hope they will ultimately come through. 
Still SF is the only brand of light I am considering buying in the near future.


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## Federal LG (Jan 21, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> Is it just me or does the E1B look uncircumcised? :sick2: ...





It have just the same "flat pipe bomb" design that is criticized in Fenix Lights. I like it, anyway! Probably I´ll get one!


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## Monocrom (Jan 21, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> I should be more specific -
> 
> When I think "survival light", I'm thinking along the lines of Tom Hanks in the movie _Cast Away_ (he didn't do so well with a MiniMag). Or at least Les Stroud in the television series _Survivorman_ (he doesn't even use flashlights!). It's going to go through a lot of use and abuse, and can't really be a one trick pony, so I'd go with something LED, multi modes with a marathon low mode for general use and a decent bright mode with some throw to spot something from a distance or to signal.


 
I think Hanks used a Streamlight Scorpion in the movie.

Also, the runtime might be a bit off, but the Inova 24/7 fits those requirements.


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## KeyGrip (Jan 21, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Yepp. I have doubts the E1B's UI will be able to replace the L1 for me. The L1 switch is among the best I know. Even my mom can use it properly without an explanation.



Exactly; it's going to work with the L1, not against it. The E1B is more for people like me who want a single celled, two stage light with a forward clicky. I love everything about the L1 except for the switch. I can appreciate the design and simplicity, but it just doesn't work for me. Someone at SureFire must have been reading my mind when they came up with this one. :tinfoil:


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## paulr (Jan 21, 2008)

Maybe it's off topic and maybe I lack imagination but I just don't understand this survival light thing involving 2 hours a night of usage. When I've gone camping I've never used a flashlight for more than a few minutes a night. Use daylight for stuff needing illumination. At night, go to sleep, look at the stars, walk by moonlight, whatever. Main use of a flashlight is for setting up a tent, which really wants a handsfree light, though with the bezel up position maybe this E1b can be clipped to a hat brim for that purpose.


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## ja10 (Jan 21, 2008)

paulr said:


> Maybe it's off topic and maybe I lack imagination but I just don't understand this survival light thing involving 2 hours a night of usage. When I've gone camping I've never used a flashlight for more than a few minutes a night. Use daylight for stuff needing illumination. At night, go to sleep, look at the stars, walk by moonlight, whatever. Main use of a flashlight is for setting up a tent, which really wants a handsfree light, though with the bezel up position maybe this E1b can be clipped to a hat brim for that purpose.



You make a good point. I got into this whole hobby about 1.5 years ago, and my first light was the Lux III L1. The reason why I got it was because it was one of the longest running LEDs in the SF lineup with "4 hrs of useful output" (only part of that at full output). Well, I got the light with some worry about the "short" runtime, but 6 weeks later when I replaced the original CR123, I realized that I put way too much emphasis on runtime.

That's not to say that runtime isn't important. I like multi-level lights for that exact reason. If I am in a situation where battery life is important, I can use low as much as possible.

It seems like the E1B will be a solid little light. It won't be an end-all-be-all light, but it will make a nice addition to many people's collections.


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## SilverFox (Jan 21, 2008)

Hello Paulr,

You obviously have never gone camping with a bunch of Boy Scouts...  

I can get by with little or no light at night while camping, but when the "boys" want to borrow a light for whatever adventure they cook up, my lights can get a couple hours a night of use.

Tom


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## FlashSpyJ (Jan 22, 2008)

I remember when I was a boy scout. The main reason we used our lights was to play! Going out peeing at night was an important usage of the light to, but mainly we used it to play with!

And guess what... I still mostly play with my lights...


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## eshishlo (Jan 22, 2008)

I don't think that this light is really a survival light for the masses but directed at those who need a bright light for extended periods of time during the night and their main light is in the charger. For example, a police officer on patrol with a rechargeable light could use up his single rechargeable battery in a search or accident scene and need a bright light until his main light recharges. This is where the backup light comes in.

It would also be very useful for camping with Boy Scouts. I have had the experience to go camping with a youth group. It seems that everyone wanted to borrow my bright lights and bring them back for new batteries...


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## mcmc (Jan 22, 2008)

Blindasabat said:


> I in turn agree with you about the size of the L1. I only briefly carried an L1 after I got it due to its size. I have since put together an L1 derivative that is smaller than the E1B: Gen1 head, E1E body, topped off with a McE2S two stage switch. The McE2S is stiffer then the L1 switch, so I put up with that to get an 83mm long light that has two L1-style levels and can put out 160+ lumens on RCR123.
> I still may get an E1B for the nice clip and ability to put out 80+ lumens on a primary (backup batteries) which is my direct drive Mini-me L1's one other issue. It only gets 20-30-ish lumens on primaries.
> One more note about the clip. I think it would be just as good (to Me) if it was attached at the tail for full in the pocket bezel down carry. The only type of clips I actually use are that type, like the LRI Proton.



Hey Blind, ltns =)

I didn't know the E1E/E1L body would fit the L1 head - great idea! How soon does the output noticeably drop off? I'll have to try it tonight.

Back OT, I wonder how small this light will feel in pocket, i.e. if it'll really be unobtrusive enough to be an all-time backup. Right now my HDS serves that role, in a nylon holster on my belt and I never notice it's there. I have whatever SF I'm currently playing with (recent got into SF, and boy they're great) as my 'primary,' but when I leave it somewhere and need a light, it's the HDS. It'd be great if this could serve that role too, but I'm at a shortage of pocket edge space (with knife, etc.).

The clicky looks great though. My biggest complaint with the L1 is that while for momentary the switch is great, it's uncomfortable to try to turn it on, from either position. The really only quick way to turn it on for me is two handed, single handed it takes too long and requires a hand position readjustment, where as with a clicky it's bam, light's there.


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## cv3po (Jan 22, 2008)

paulr said:


> Maybe it's off topic and maybe I lack imagination but I just don't understand this survival light thing involving 2 hours a night of usage. When I've gone camping I've never used a flashlight for more than a few minutes a night. Use daylight for stuff needing illumination. At night, go to sleep, look at the stars, walk by moonlight, whatever. Main use of a flashlight is for setting up a tent, which really wants a handsfree light, though with the bezel up position maybe this E1b can be clipped to a hat brim for that purpose.


 

Well.............there is a difference between survival and camping. In a survival situation (which could have started out as camping, biking, hiking, plane crash, out of gas in a remote location..........etc) two hours would be enough time to set up camp. This might include tent set-up/building shelter, gathering firewood/getting fire going, preparing food (if available) and many other tasks. Also it in the case of the E1B, low is bright enough to navigate the woods in the dark. Maybe you know where you need to go and want to keep moving through the night. 37 hours of runtime on low would sound pretty good in those kinds of situations.


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## Lightguy27 (Jan 26, 2008)

Something amazing just hit me about this amazing little light, and I don't know if it has been said before but Im not looking through 11 pages of posts to find out so here goes. This light is is basically the light we have all been dreaming of, let me explain.

1. It's HA in black, how many of us love this look, most.

2. Newer style clikie with as Green Led put it, a two stage clickie with momentary on at both levels.

3. A higher high, and probably the most important for most, a lower low. 80/5

4. We all know how important the bezel down is to a lot of people and now we have the option to choose with a dual pocket clip. Genius.

5. It's freekin TINY!!! 4 inches!!


I don't know it's just like PK has been waiting, watching our comments and wishes and then stuck it into a 4 inch package. Just my thoughts but this light is simply genius, all the best rolled up into one little light. Good job PK. I will definetly get one and would happily pay twice the asking price, which I will cause Ill be getting two .

-Evan


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## FlashSpyJ (Jan 26, 2008)

This may be true to some of us here. But for me I rather want low first like the L1, having the low level second may ruin the whole idea of having one in some cases. I dont want to hold my hand over the front until I changed the level 

I dont like SF optics either, its not enough side spill for my likings, other than that it probably would have been a very nice EDC for me and a lot of others!
According to the text SF wrote about it, its suppose to be a _second _light not the main light. And they have put LEOs as primary user, high first.
If the features would have been different it would have been a very good main EDC for me! I have a fenix now because of the sleek design! So this light is VERY close! I always wanted a SF as an EDC, but havent used one because of the knurling. I really like the knurling on SFs lights, but not if im going to EDC it. So this is right thinking from SureFire! BUT I would want the same light withe the option of low/high, this could be named "EDC" not "backup". This EDC could be directed to the public and hikers etc. Or LEs for that matter, but on their spare time


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## Phredd (Jan 26, 2008)

FlashSpyJ said:


> I would want the same light withe the option of low/high



Maybe once they're out, someone will figure out how to switch the order.



Lightguy27 said:


> I will definetly get one and would happily pay twice the asking price



Great, I'll buy two and sell you one of mine. I would gladly pay the asking price, but free is even better.


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## Monocrom (Jan 26, 2008)

Lightguy27 said:


> Something amazing just hit me about this amazing little light....
> 
> 1. It's HA in black, how many of us love this look, most.
> 
> ...


 
Something amazing just hit me as I was reading your post.... The Novatac 85P popped into my head. 

No it doesn't fit every single thing mentioned. But damn if it ain't close!


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## Lightguy27 (Jan 26, 2008)

IMHO, when this light comes out it *will *be the ultimate EDC. 

-Evan


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## light_emitting_dude (Jan 26, 2008)

It seems like last year we had to wait until mid-year for the L1 to become available, hopefully this year we can get our hands on an E1B sooner than mid-year.


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## Size15's (Jan 26, 2008)

light_emitting_dude said:


> It seems like last year we had to wait until mid-year for the L1 to become available, hopefully this year we can get our hands on an E1B sooner than mid-year.


If you want an E1B I suggest you make sure your friendly SureFire Dealer knows to put your name on their list when they're able to place orders.
Once that's done you can get on with something else while you wait.


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## Tempest UK (Jan 26, 2008)

Size15's said:


> If you want an E1B I suggest you make sure your friendly SureFire Dealer knows to put your name on their list when they're able to place orders.
> Once that's done you can get on with something else while you wait.



Yup, place a preorder and then try to forget about it. Then you have a nice E1B shaped surprise when it becomes available 

Of course, it's not always too easy to stop obsessing over such things until they comes out :sick2:

Regards,
Tempest


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## Lightguy27 (Jan 26, 2008)

Size15's said:


> If you want an E1B I suggest you make sure your friendly SureFire Dealer knows to put your name on their list when they're able to place orders.
> Once that's done you can get on with something else while you wait.


 

So how exactly would you go to a dealer(for me I would like it be Basspro) and ask them to put your name on the list. I have a friend who works at basspro in the camping section which is the section where the Flashlights and SF display case are located so could I ask to be put on a waiting list when they receive them. Or, will they be availible at SF's website the same time they are in stores. I could just ask him to hold one for me when they arrive. So Size 15's, do you have a ballpark estimate for when they will be released?

-Evan


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## light_emitting_dude (Jan 26, 2008)

I am hoping/assuming that SF will deliver this light earlier than mid-year because last year was their first year manufacturing lights with the Cree LED. Maybe they took more time to test the new lights with the Cree LED. It seems that with the E1B, they would just have to re-machine the E1L body, add a different driver and switch? 

I guess we will just have to wait and see!


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## Size15's (Jan 26, 2008)

Lightguy27 said:


> So how exactly would you go to a dealer(for me I would like it be Basspro) and ask them to put your name on the list. I have a friend who works at basspro in the camping section which is the section where the Flashlights and SF display case are located so could I ask to be put on a waiting list when they receive them. Or, will they be availible at SF's website the same time they are in stores. I could just ask him to hold one for me when they arrive. So Size 15's, do you have a ballpark estimate for when they will be released?
> 
> -Evan


I like your attitude - support local retailers.
However, in this instance I would advocate taking a more personalised approach. CPF MarketPlace plays host to several SureFire Dealers who are far more capable of realising your desire to have a new, as unreleased SureFire product by placing you on a 'pre-order' list or other such mechanism.

As to whether I have a 'ballpark estimate release date' - I wouldn't like to say. I don't believe it productive/constructive to place any hope or even seek to speculate on release dates. Time has shown they can not be relied upon.

To that end I suggest you find a friendly SureFire Dealer with whom to register your desire to have a new product and it will be dispatched to you when available. Nothing you can do after that so I suggest turning your attentions elsewhere.

Al


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## The Coach (Jan 26, 2008)

Well, since I just got an L1 and a Kroma, if they want to take six months, it's OK with me.


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## KeyGrip (Jan 26, 2008)

Phredd said:


> Maybe once they're out, someone will figure out how to switch the order.



I'm banking on this as well.


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## yaesumofo (Jan 27, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

I will try and wait until this light has hit the retail channel in quantities sufficient to support demand. That way if there are any bugs or manufacturing issues which need to be worked out I don't have to be the guy who says hey my E1B is screwed up what about yours? Know what I mean.

If Surefire produces the E1B it will not be in small quantities. They will be going for a home run with this light. Surefire must be thinking we need every Police Officer in the United states and elsewhere to be carrying one of these.
Of course the minute a working beat cop sees this light he will see the utility in it and want one. Cops are suckers for good flashlights. This one will be no exception.

For some reason I don't generally line up to be first in line to buy a surefire.
(I did prepay for a titan though). I guess I am secure in the knowledge that Surefire is going to make enough to go around and there is no real hurry. It isn't exactly a McGizmo which is going to be available today and sold out tomorrow.
That said there are and have been shortages of Surefire lights like the L4 or the KL4 and others but not lights like the 6p a surefire staple.
I wonder why? I bet it has to do with the component set. Some lights with electronic component packages require more attention...I am guessing.

Like you guys I too look forward to having and holding one of these. Only time will tell if I can resist ordering one the first day it is available

Yaesumofo


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## paulr (Jan 27, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

The early L4 shortages were because of the very limited supply of high flux 5 watt Luxeon leds. That's less of an issue now.


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## Size15's (Jan 27, 2008)

I believe people have spoken of a recent 'shortage' of L4's.
My explanation for this is that SureFire have been receiving significant orders for their ScoutLight (M600A) which uses the KL4 bezel and have been diverting resources to meeting those orders.

As far as I'm aware SureFire have never had the luxury of being able to make more product than the demand for it


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## Lightguy27 (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks for the adive Size 15's. Any particular Market place dealer you would like to suggest?

-Evan


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## Lightguy27 (Jan 27, 2008)

Wait, scratch that. I have another Idea. 

-Evan


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## Beastmaster (Jan 27, 2008)

I will, of course, laugh my tail off if the E1B won't take rechargeables.

-Steve


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## Mercaptan (Jan 27, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> I will, of course, laugh my tail off if the E1B won't take rechargeables.
> 
> -Steve


 
Well, if you're Surefire, and plan to design a light to use only CR123a primaries, why design it to accept 4.2 ish volts?

In all fairness, I do love this E1B design. I can't wait to see what people think of them.


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## Riddick (Jan 28, 2008)

SureFire has 6PLED and G2LED shortages. I ordered one each from them a week and a half ago and all I got was an E-Mail telling me its all back ordered and to contact customer service to see what I want to do. They did take the money out of my account to boot!! Any advise? 

I guess I'll give'm another week or so before I call them.

I can't believe the hits and responses on this thread seems like a lot of you guys & gals are hot for one of these E1B Backup lights, ( I wonder how long it was on its web site, from the time I posted to the time they pulled the listing seemed to be pretty quick. ) something fishy here? me thinks


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## vantage (Jan 28, 2008)

I got my P60L about a week after getting the back-ordered email. I love it in my G2, however, I tried it in my C3 (instead of the older KL3 head) and love it even more. In the C3 it allows me to carry the P90/1 in a spare carrier for easy swapping.

I just put in another order for a P60L for my G2 again though. Hang in there and hopefully both of ours will show up soon.

M


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 28, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> I will, of course, laugh my tail off if the E1B won't take rechargeables.
> 
> -Steve



Running on one CR123 the E1B will have a constant current boost regulator and will probably not like the larger 3.6-4.2 volt rechargeables, though maybe it will handle an RCR123.

Bill


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## WDR65 (Jan 28, 2008)

This one looks interesting. I don't think it will replace my L1 that I keep in my truck, but it might end up being the actual backup for the L4 that I carry in my coat pockets. Looking forward to trying one out, though I'm not holding my breath.


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## segan (Jan 30, 2008)

Man I was seriously thinking about getting an L1 when I stumbled across this thread. Looks like I'll have to wait and see what the E1B offers. 5/80 lumens is just about perfect for me. I was just thinking that a low of 10 lumens was a bit bright for me. Plus HA Black is super sleek


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## KDOG3 (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh yes. This light WILL be in my inventory!


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## Nathan (Jan 30, 2008)

This light seems to have a great combination of features, but I'm most interested in the switching mechanism. As smooth and well-designed as the A2/L1/L2 dual mode switching is, it does take a few seconds to turn to go from constant-on low to constant-on high (and vice versa). I'm hoping the E1B's tailcap will be quicker to operate. I'm definitely in for one.


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## Federal LG (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh man, but it is taking to much time to start selling! 

Time goes by... so slowly!


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## monkeyboy (Jan 30, 2008)

Size15's said:


> This is not the first time this has happened - pages have been published too early by mistake and then taken down. I can't remember which product it was though.


 
This sounds like the Canon/Nikon teaser strategy. Before a major release, they "accidentally" publish it on one of their international websites for a day before taking it down.


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## monkeyboy (Jan 30, 2008)

double post


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## TooSharp (Jan 30, 2008)

Looks like BatteryJunction is taking preorders.

http://www.batteryjunction.com/surefire-e1b-backup.html


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## Hoghead (Jan 30, 2008)

TooSharp said:


> Looks like BatteryJunction is taking preorders.
> 
> http://www.batteryjunction.com/surefire-e1b-backup.html


 

Thanks!!!

I got my preorder in for two.


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## FlashSpyJ (Jan 30, 2008)

waiting for some reviews!


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## Mercaptan (Jan 30, 2008)

TooSharp said:


> Looks like BatteryJunction is taking preorders.
> 
> http://www.batteryjunction.com/surefire-e1b-backup.html



Anyone else find it hilarious that the enlarged image of the E1B is a photoshopped joke resulting from this thread?


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## Kiessling (Jan 30, 2008)

Freaking hilarious !!!!!   
Someone is going to tell'em ... some time. This is too cool ... 
A very funny little mistake.
bernie


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## MikeLip (Jan 30, 2008)

Mercaptan said:


> Anyone else find it hilarious that the enlarged image of the E1B is a photoshopped joke resulting from this thread?



 !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !


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## KeyGrip (Jan 30, 2008)

That's too much. Where's our friendly BatteryJunction rep? :candle:


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## Beastmaster (Jan 30, 2008)

KeyGrip said:


> That's too much. Where's our friendly BatteryJunction rep? :candle:



Probably hiding from all the ration of grief we're going to collectively give him.


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## Daniel_sk (Jan 30, 2008)

MikeLip said:


> !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !


:huh2:...........


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## jzmtl (Jan 30, 2008)

Anybody told them yet? :hahaha:


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## I came to the light... (Jan 30, 2008)

OK, I really can't find any info on this light... the link to Surefire's page says it has been unpublished ??? I'd love to know the size...

uhh... all the links in this thread go to the same image. Does it not really say "strong light?" (have all the images changed, or has BatteryJunction changed the pic?)


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## Retinator (Jan 30, 2008)

Lol no the pic on the site is a photoshop joke from one of the threads here.

OMG that is funny.

I wonder if the "Strong Light" logo turned anyone off of preordering it.

All it's missing is a little white dumbell next to the words.


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## Derek Dean (Jan 31, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Freaking hilarious !!!!!
> Someone is going to tell'em ... some time. This is too cool ...
> A very funny little mistake.
> bernie


Ha, while it is funny.... what makes you think it is a 'mistake'? It appears to me that MattK has a very wry sense of humor.


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## Monocrom (Jan 31, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> Anybody told them yet? :hahaha:


 


They'll never know. Never! Ha ha! ..... Well, unless someone is silly enough to post about it on a public forum. :lolsign:


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## FlashSpyJ (Jan 31, 2008)

LOL! 

Thats funny!


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## djblank87 (Jan 31, 2008)

Friday I will pre-order from BatteryJunction for this little sucker. It will be worth the wait to see what Surefire had came up with this time.


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## light_emitting_dude (Jan 31, 2008)

Its a good thing he didn't use this pic! :laughing:


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 31, 2008)

ROFL! 

Anyway after much consideration, this light may just be about the best design I've seen for a production EDC. (and I'm no SF fanboi)
Bezel up or down on the pocket clip... score! That beautiful SF Cree TIR; Useful brightness settings and good runtimes. I may have to break tradition and buy a SF that isn't on sale. I'll wait for some reviews.

 just when I though I was getting caught up too.


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## djblank87 (Jan 31, 2008)

It's good that they did not use the one pic that has a U2 style interface on the E1B, now if they used that, it would be funny as heck.


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## KDOG3 (Jan 31, 2008)

The only thing that puzzles me is, won't this nullify the need for the L1? This thing has better features - namely a lower low and a higher high. 

Payday can't get here soon enough.
Time to email my favorite dealers and interrogate them for information on this thing.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 31, 2008)

Hoghead said:


> Thanks!!!
> 
> I got my preorder in for two.


Me too! Great stuff.

Thanks Battery Junction, you got my money again...


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## jaythebull (Jan 31, 2008)

I just ordered mine. I had ordered an L1 earlier in the week. These are my first SF lights.


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## Kiessling (Jan 31, 2008)

It is not the little bit more and less output of the two modes that distinguish the E1B from the L1 ... it is all about the interface. Where the L1 will win hands down, I think. We'll see. 
I never thought I'd see a multi-click from SF :sick2:
bernie


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 31, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> It is not the little bit more and less output of the two modes that distinguish the E1B from the L1 ... it is all about the interface. Where the L1 will win hands down, I think. We'll see.
> I never thought I'd see a multi-click from SF :sick2:
> bernie



Must be CPF influenced.

Bill


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## Kiessling (Jan 31, 2008)

I wouldn't be proud of that if it were the case  :nana: 
bernie


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## Size15's (Jan 31, 2008)

From my perspective there is more than enough to differentiate the L1 from the E1B.


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## Federal LG (Jan 31, 2008)

At first, what I really like in this new Backup Surefire is the clip!
I don´t like the clip of my L1 Cree.... it´s a "bezel up" clip, like the tip up in some knives.

I would prefer this "bezel down" clip, like in this new SF model. When you grab it from your belt, it is in the right position to use. Perfect!


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## SPECTER6 (Jan 31, 2008)

Just for those that never saw the "accidental" post for the E1B on surefire.com, google has it cached.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...esent=0+surefire+e1b&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


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## Ginseng (Jan 31, 2008)

Dang. Might have to hop on this bus after all. Thanks a lot, Specter. 

Wilkey


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## Beastmaster (Jan 31, 2008)

It's also archived. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2318278&postcount=170



SPECTER6 said:


> Just for those that never saw the "accidental" post for the E1B on surefire.com, google has it cached.
> 
> http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cach...esent=0+surefire+e1b&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


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## cboo357 (Jan 31, 2008)

Okay, so I see battery junction is taking pre-orders, but does anyone really know when these things will be shipped out??


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## southernlites (Jan 31, 2008)

Received following e-mail today :


Hi,
We don't have an exact date but we've heard a few weeks. We'll know
more
next week.
We're a Priority 1 customer with Surefire so our order will ship before
any non-Priority 1 dealers; in other words we'll have stock as soon or
before other dealers.
Thanks for shopping with www.BatteryJunction.com !

Best regards,
Matthew
www.batteryjunction.com


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## TooSharp (Jan 31, 2008)

cboo357 said:


> Okay, so I see battery junction is taking pre-orders, but does anyone really know when these things will be shipped out??


See this post.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2117882&postcount=12


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## I came to the light... (Jan 31, 2008)

Thanks for the links Specter6 and Beastmaster 

Seems like the UI is preferable for people using low mode more (vs L1), but it still isn't easy to get to low. Also, when comparing the E1B to the L1, don't forget the .5" length difference - pretty important to me for an EDC.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 31, 2008)

You hit something right on the head for me.

Even though I have large hands, I don't like the current L1 as an EDC light. Hence why it got relegated to being a pistol fanny pack light and now it's getting traded for a Novatac 85P.

I have (thanks to the shorty TW4's and the Novatac 120) gotten used to lights that are at or shorter than 4 inches. They fit coin pockets, regular pockets, back pockets, and other storage areas quite nicely.

The L1 is too long for it's capabilities. And thanks to the OpticsHQ/TLS heads, I have lights that blow the L1 away now that are still shorter.

So the E1B is something that a lot of us, myself included, are looking forward to seeing.

-Steve



I came to the light... said:


> Thanks for the links Specter6 and Beastmaster
> 
> Seems like the UI is preferable for people using low mode more (vs L1), but it still isn't easy to get to low. Also, when comparing the E1B to the L1, don't forget the .5" length difference - pretty important to me for an EDC.


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## cboo357 (Jan 31, 2008)

I don't own a Surefire, YET, but I'm hoping this will be bright enough to use for patrol work. I was just about to order a 6PL until I saw this is coming out real soon. The size and the clip have me sold, one less holster I'll have on my belt.


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## MattK (Feb 1, 2008)

LOL 

Yah, I used the wrong pic by accident. I wish I could claim it was intentional - but it wasn't. 

8 emails and 6 PM's later I fixed it - out of 14 ppl laughing at me one was kind enough to link the right pics. Thanks TooSharp!!

Thanks for all of the great orders - we'll update you with availability information as soon as I get the official word.

*goes home to pack for SHOT*


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## dmz (Feb 1, 2008)

I am not a fan of twisty tailcaps so the SureFire E1B Backup is what I have been waiting for. 

Will it be offered in OD HAIII instead of black?


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## djblank87 (Feb 1, 2008)

@ DMZ, 
I do not think the E1B is intended/nor will be offered in black HAIII. 

@MattK, 
I just pre-ordered one of those puppies, from Battery Junction. :thumbsup:


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## bondr006 (Feb 1, 2008)

It is offered in HAIII Black. Here is the description directly from the Surefire page.

"Rugged aerospace-grade aluminum body, Mil-Spec Type III hard anodized in black"


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## eshishlo (Feb 1, 2008)

I got this off the SF website:
Rugged aerospace-grade aluminum body, Mil-Spec Type III hard anodized in black



djblank87 said:


> @ DMZ,
> I do not think the E1B is intended/nor will be offered in black HAIII.


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## bondr006 (Feb 1, 2008)

Is there an echo in here?


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## Steve Curtis (Feb 1, 2008)

Im not sure if its been posted yet but the Backup is now Backup  on the SF website.
:twothumbs


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## light_emitting_dude (Feb 1, 2008)

By golly your right!

They probably put it back on since shot show is tomorrow.


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## Tempest UK (Feb 1, 2008)

If only SureFire had put up the "Strong Light" photoshopped picture :nana:

Regards,
Tempest


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## AzGB (Feb 1, 2008)

cboo357 said:


> I don't own a Surefire, YET, but I'm hoping this will be bright enough to use for patrol work. I was just about to order a 6PL until I saw this is coming out real soon. The size and the clip have me sold, one less holster I'll have on my belt.


 
cboo357,

While this may seem like a great light for getting gear off of your duty rig, I'm not sure if this is an ideal light as your primary. With a high-output runtime claim of 1.3 hours (which probably isn't far off, as SureFire's pretty accurate about these things) you might be swapping in a new battery on a fairly regular basis. SureFire probably gave this light the name "Back Up" for a fairly good reason. The fact that I'm not a patrol officer, your mileage my vary. With 37 claimed hours of low-output runtime, if that is the main setting you use, this might be ideal. Personally, I'd opt for a primary light that has one incredibly bright setting (A Malkoff drop-in in a 6P for example, 235 lumens lights up a lot more alley than 80) and use the E1B Back Up for everything that doesn't need a far-reaching, retina-scorching beam.

By no means am I knocking the E1B, I'll very likely pick one up myself. I'm just not sure if the Back Up has what it takes to be a main, primary, or only source of lighting for an officer.


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## mcmc (Feb 1, 2008)

I don't mean to presume to know the poster's needs or those of LEOs since I am not one, but on one of the other LEO threads, one officer there said that he uses a light that has just over an hour runtime, and that's sufficient for him for a full shift. Reason being, 1.3hr runtime used in few second or minute bursts translates to ready usage for an entire 8, 10, 12 hour shift. One case where I could see needing a longer runtime light would be for a night search through woods or something, in which case you need something drastically different, and where portability may not be as big a factor - perhaps a wide-throwing, 1000 lumen light that can run for a couple hours.


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## Nathan (Feb 1, 2008)

Absolutely hilarious!


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## bondr006 (Feb 1, 2008)

:thinking:



Nathan said:


> Absolutely hilarious!


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## cboo357 (Feb 1, 2008)

AzGB,

I appreciate the input! 



AzGB said:


> cboo357,
> 
> While this may seem like a great light for getting gear off of your duty rig, I'm not sure if this is an ideal light as your primary. With a high-output runtime claim of 1.3 hours (which probably isn't far off, as SureFire's pretty accurate about these things) you might be swapping in a new battery on a fairly regular basis. SureFire probably gave this light the name "Back Up" for a fairly good reason. The fact that I'm not a patrol officer, your mileage my vary. With 37 claimed hours of low-output runtime, if that is the main setting you use, this might be ideal. Personally, I'd opt for a primary light that has one incredibly bright setting (A Malkoff drop-in in a 6P for example, 235 lumens lights up a lot more alley than 80) and use the E1B Back Up for everything that doesn't need a far-reaching, retina-scorching beam.
> 
> By no means am I knocking the E1B, I'll very likely pick one up myself. I'm just not sure if the Back Up has what it takes to be a main, primary, or only source of lighting for an officer.


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## Nathan (Feb 1, 2008)

bondr006 said:


> :thinking:


 
I was referring to the now-corrected photoshop mixup at batterystation.com. 

eta:
I meant batteryjunction.


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## djblank87 (Feb 2, 2008)

Hey dj are you in there?

Sorry about that guys, yes it is offered in HAIII.  I do not know how I got confused on that one.


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## MattK (Feb 2, 2008)

:hahaha:


Nathan said:


> I was referring to the now-corrected photoshop mixup at batterystation.com.



Speaking of mixups.


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## Lightguy27 (Feb 2, 2008)

Hey Matt, I was wondering something. When I order tomorrow do you have an approximate ETA to when you ship them? 

-Evan


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## MattK (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm hearing they'll ship in about 1 week but will know more later today.


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## KeyGrip (Feb 2, 2008)

MattK said:


> I'm hearing they'll ship in about 1 week but will know more later today.



Awesome. Thanks for keeping us updated.


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## MattK (Feb 2, 2008)

E1B's are shipping Monday/Tuesday - we upgraded shipping so should hopefully be shipping them by next Friday! 

TONS of cool new SF products and announcements - I'll post later if someone doesn't beat me to it.


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## djblank87 (Feb 2, 2008)

Mattk as early as Monday for us pre-order people? 

That is awesome.....:thumbsup:


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## KROMATICS (Feb 2, 2008)

MattK said:


> E1B's are shipping Monday/Tuesday - we upgraded shipping so should hopefully be shipping them by next Friday!
> 
> TONS of cool new SF products and announcements - I'll post later if someone doesn't beat me to it.



Please do as it took forever to get any news out of Shot Show last year! :thumbsup:


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## KROMATICS (Feb 2, 2008)

Must be at the CPF party...

:drunk:


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## Lightguy27 (Feb 2, 2008)

MattK said:


> I'm hearing they'll ship in about 1 week but will know more later today.


 

Just awesome Matt. Put my order in a couple hours ago. Your are the best online SF dealer I've done business with yet.

-Evan


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## MattK (Feb 3, 2008)

E1B's, to clarify, are shipping from SF to BJ on Monday/Tuesday via 3 day so we expect them by Friday and hope to have all pre-orders shipped by end of business Friday or early Monday at worst.

Thanks for the kind words!

Here's a quick Surefire SHOT roundup - and yes, I was at the CPF party. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2342800#post2342800


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## jumpstat (Feb 3, 2008)

Very interesting new light from SF. Cheaper than L1 cree, much lower low mode and higher high mode, also in HA3 black cool!.....generally much better specs than the L1 cree?!


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## WildChild (Feb 3, 2008)

jumpstat said:


> Very interesting new light from SF. Cheaper than L1 cree, much lower low mode and higher high mode, also in HA3 black cool!.....generally much better specs than the L1 cree?!



I wouldn't say better specs. They are just different


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## FredericoFreire (Feb 4, 2008)

Does the E1B Backup takes rechargeables (RCR-123) ?


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## light_emitting_dude (Feb 4, 2008)

FredericoFreire said:


> Does the E1B Backup takes rechargeables (RCR-123) ?



Should work with 3.0 v rechargeable batts like the L1 and E1L.


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## CandlePowerForumsUser (Feb 4, 2008)

Hey Matt, I tried to order a E1B but its adding shpping cost even tho it states that the item qualifies for free shipping :thinking:.

Am I doing something wrong? Will wait for a replay to complete my order.


Never mind, I see where I messed up.

Thanks!


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## Optik49 (Feb 4, 2008)

:shrug: Why does it keep adding in the shipping ($9.58)? I’m up to the Send Order point? Oh add the Coupon code surefire (attention to detail ) Guess you can't use the CPF2006 and get the 5% bummer. 
Oh well order placed. I called Surefire today and they said you can not purchase from Surefire for another 30 days. Hopefully this will be quicker :devil:


_AND WE WAIT_


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## CandlePowerForumsUser (Feb 5, 2008)

Sooo.... did the light ship yet? 





I know it hasn't... waiting for a light you really want is never an easy task.


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## dmonay (Feb 5, 2008)

It seems that if Surefire can make the switch High/Low then they can make a switch Low/High, and designate the light E1B-T (high/low) for tactical use and E1B-G (low/high) for general purpose use.
The same switch could be used on other models too for all the non tactical users.

Sounds too logical doesn't it?


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## Monocrom (Feb 5, 2008)

dmonay said:


> Sounds too logical doesn't it?


 
.... Until you realize that Surefire is a company that makes its money off of tactical lights. Especially with their government contracts. There isn't a huge enough demand for non-tactical lights from Surefire, to justify spending the money for R&D for lights that appeal to non-tactical Users.


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## 270winchester (Feb 5, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> .... Until you realize that Surefire is a company that makes its money off of tactical lights. Especially with their government contracts. There isn't a huge enough demand for non-tactical lights from Surefire, to justify spending the money for R&D for lights that appeal to non-tactical Users.



yeah, they sure would never have a low-high light.

Oh wait, L1, L2, A2. They already do that.

Considering they have always had lights geared towards outdoorsmen, in form of long running moderate output LEDs as well as dual output lights, you need to give them the credit for paying attention to non-tacticool users, and ironically the lumen-hungry CPF comunity has not been friendly toward SF because of that. "SF doesn't know how to boost efficiency", "Surefire uses crappy bins because their published spec sucks", etc, etc.

Hmmm...


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## Kiessling (Feb 5, 2008)

Yes to both. 
The L1/L2/A2, while being in low mode first, do offer high mode in the same movement inthe same action in the fraction of a second, which makes this interface so beautiful.

The E1B et al however can't do that. There you need to release the switch again to achieve the second mode, and now it is important if it is high or low that engages first, all of a sudden.
And that is the downside of the mutli-click interfaces and this is also the reason why I fear I won't like it.

bernie


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## paulr (Feb 5, 2008)

If you have to go multi-click, high-low is the way to do it. Those concerned about too big an initial blast can put their finger over the bezel or point it out of the way when they first turn it on.


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## Optik49 (Feb 5, 2008)

_ My NovaTac 120P is currently set to come on at the lowest setting but press and hold for max or two clicks to medium. It’s the perfect light to get up in the middle of the night with. Not to hijack the E1B but I just find I most often reach for my NovaTac because it’s the programming I choose. The timed auto off works well, if you want a nightlight._


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## robm (Feb 5, 2008)

I wonder what happens when the batteries are getting low - i.e. not enough power left to run on high - will it be possible to click through to low?

IIRC there was another multi-level light had this problem, even though the batteries could run on low - it wasn't possible to get to low.


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## Monocrom (Feb 5, 2008)

270winchester said:


> Hmmm...


 
There's a huge difference between the tactical community, and the tacti-cool community. The A2 is a specialized light. The L1 and L2 are designed so that if you need high-mode, you can instantly bypass low by pushing down on the switch as hard as you can. I consider both to be tactical models which have a low feature that doesn't get in the way of using the lights for actual, tactical purposes.


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## bondr006 (Feb 5, 2008)

I have a Wolf Eyes HO 2 level drop-in in my 6PD with a Z59 tail cap, so I have this same exact high/low setup. Momentary taps to switch levels, or full clicks for constant on. I like it, and am looking forward to getting the E1B. If you don't mind high coming on first, it's a simple quick tap to get to low. In fact, it is very simple and intuitive. You can change the level to what you want before clicking it to full on. I don't see it as much of a problem with just a two stage light. I can see where it would be a pain with more levels though.


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## 270winchester (Feb 5, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> There's a huge difference between the tactical community, and the tacti-cool community. The A2 is a specialized light. The L1 and L2 are designed so that if you need high-mode, you can instantly bypass low by pushing down on the switch as hard as you can. I consider both to be tactical models which have a low feature that doesn't get in the way of using the lights for actual, tactical purposes.



you seem to be missing my point and focusing on semantics.

Do you agree that Surefire has had lights geared toward average outdoorsman type users? Since the introduction of the 3P, E1, then the E2O, then the E1L/E2L, and the L1s were low output lights in the beginning that were hardly "tactical" brightness. Remember how much output the L1 ha when it was first introduced? What about the KL3 conversion heads? 


It would be unfair to pigeonhole SF as a "tactical" maker when they have been making long running lights for others for quite a while now. Heck the light that drew me to CPF was the E2O *Outdoorsman* back in 2004, and tjey had been making hte MN02 and E1 for a while by then.


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## djblank87 (Feb 8, 2008)

I do not know about the rest of you guys but I received my tracking number from Battery Junction today for my E1B. 


MattK & Battery Junction​:bow::bow::bow::bow:

Thanks for the pre-order, updates and quick shipping for this item. Just a few more days.


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## woodrow (Feb 8, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> There's a huge difference between the tactical community, and the tacti-cool community.







:thumbsup:


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## Monocrom (Feb 8, 2008)

woodrow said:


> :thumbsup:


 
Perhaps if I were a soldier or LEO, I might be personally offended.


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## rtt (Feb 8, 2008)

How does the smooth body feel in the hand? Do you miss the knulling?


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## Nathan (Feb 10, 2008)

Mine arrived today. Beam is very white and throws well. The switch is intuitive and easy to use.
Here are some observations and answers to some questions I've read:
The only marking on the head is the "CAUTION HOT SURFACE" warning and graphic. No model number or serial number, as on previous LED heads.
The pocket clip attaches to the body differently from other E-series lights so the clips are not interchangeable.
A 3.7V RCR123 fits in the body, but when turned on the light momentarily flickers to a brighter level every 2 seconds. The KX1 behaves the same way IIRC.
The head, body and tailcap use the same threads as other E-series components, so they are interchangeable.
Without any knurling, the light is definitly more slippery, especially under wet conditions.
A Z68 or E2D tailcap will fit on the E1B body and does clear the pocket clip. This might be a good swap to make the light more slip-resistant. Plus it will tailstand. I've already done this with mine.
With a nearly-dead battery it is possible to still click through to low. High just loses brightness.

It's too soon to comment on real-world use, but I plan on making this my EDC for a while. Aside from the issue with rechargeables, I think I'm going to like it.


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## Monocrom (Feb 10, 2008)

Nathan said:


> .... It's too soon to comment on real-world use, but I plan on making this my EDC for a while. Aside from the issue with rechargeables, I think I'm going to like it.


 
Please post in the Reviews sub-forum after some time has passed, and you've had a chance to use your E1B.


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## Size15's (Feb 10, 2008)

Nathan said:


> The pocket clip attaches to the body differently from other E-series lights so the clips are not interchangeable.


The attachment point is the same.
I just put the two-way clip from my E1B onto my L1.
(however, my L1's short clip was too tight to fit into my E1B's attachment point)
Whether this is just a batch issue I'm not sure...


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## Ralls (Feb 10, 2008)

Size15's said:


> The attachment point is the same.
> I just put the two-way clip from my E1B onto my L1.
> (however, my L1's short clip was too tight to fit into my E1B's attachment point)
> Whether this is just a batch issue I'm not sure...



This is good news! I've been wondering this for awhile now--thanks for confirming this Size15's!


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## mspeterson (Feb 10, 2008)

Nathan said:


> Mine arrived today. Beam is very white and throws well. The switch is intuitive and easy to use.
> Here are some observations and answers to some questions I've read:
> The only marking on the head is the "CAUTION HOT SURFACE" warning and graphic. No model number or serial number, as on previous LED heads.
> The pocket clip attaches to the body differently from other E-series lights so the clips are not interchangeable.
> ...




Thanks!
How about a pic. with the defender tailcap on, Please...

Here is what I plan on trying:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/189077


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## SIGconvert (Feb 10, 2008)

Mine arrived yesterday. I like it quite a bit. The "Carry melt", pocket clip and clicky are really nice. Here are some bad pics.


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## Fooboy (Feb 10, 2008)

Size15's said:


> The attachment point is the same.
> I just put the two-way clip from my E1B onto my L1.
> (however, my L1's short clip was too tight to fit into my E1B's attachment point)
> Whether this is just a batch issue I'm not sure...



Can you order the E1B clip then?


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## SIGconvert (Feb 10, 2008)

Fooboy said:


> Can you order the E1B clip then?


 
That would be great. How do you remove the Pocket clips?


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## WadeF (Feb 10, 2008)

I'm excited to see it's much smaller than the L1. Lots of punch (throw) in a small package.


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## Size15's (Feb 10, 2008)

Fooboy said:


> Can you order the E1B clip then?


Geez! Give 'em a chance to get a few E1B's out the door first! 

Perhaps SureFire will make available in due course. Perhaps like with the current clips you need to call SureFire.



SIGconvert said:


> That would be great. How do you remove the Pocket clips?


I just pushed the E1B clip right out of the attachment point.
With the standard short and long clips I used a length of string looped in the neck of the clip to pull them carefully out (remembering that there's a black plastic widget you don't want to loose).
Oh... Remove the o-ring first!


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## SIGconvert (Feb 10, 2008)

Thanks. Do you know if there is a lanyard for the E1B?


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## Size15's (Feb 10, 2008)

SIGconvert said:


> Thanks. Do you know if there is a lanyard for the E1B?


I was under the impression that the point was that it should not need a lanyard.


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## Nathan (Feb 10, 2008)

Size15's said:


> The attachment point is the same.
> I just put the two-way clip from my E1B onto my L1.
> (however, my L1's short clip was too tight to fit into my E1B's attachment point)
> Whether this is just a batch issue I'm not sure...


 
I stand corrected. Al is right. I just took a glance at that part of the body and saw that the E1B looked different. Only the clip itself is different. The attachment method is the same.

The E1B with a Z68 tailcap:


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## Hitthespot (Feb 10, 2008)

So far I really like this light but have had really bad luck with the clip. 
Yesterday I had it clipped to my jeans pocket and when I laid on the couch it slipped out of my pocket. Today before I left for my brother in law's retirement party I clipped the E1B to my thick leather belt. I drove to the party center. When I got there I walked into the hall said hello to someone and the E1B fell out from under my coat and onto the Marble floor. ( for everyone that's cringing--the lights OK )

This never happened with my E2e. The clip on the E2e is much tighter. I'm not sure what the clip on the E1B's true function is. I have seen Surefire pictures of the E1B clipped to a belt on what I believe is a plain clothed officer. 

I just took pliers and squeezed the clip together tighter in hopes of correcting this (and I believe it has ). If not this light will be a big disappointment. I find the head too big to carry all the way down in a tight jeans pocket. So the clip becomes very important for clipping to the top of a pocket or belt. For all the way down in the pocket the Nightcore, Nautilus, or P2D is much more suited to the task. 

I'm really interested in other opinions on wether the clip is working well for others? Maybe I'm just doing something wrong?

Thanks

Bill


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## asdalton (Feb 10, 2008)

I haven't had much luck with clips on most lights--particularly LED lights, which tend to be heavy at the head. The exceptions are lights that have a strong, tail-mounted clip for bezel down carry such as the Surefire U2 or the McLux III PD.

The E1B clip is sort of a compromise between the two. I find that it works better on the E1B than an E1E type clip would, but not as well as a strong tail-mounted clip. 

For me, it is also too loose when clipped to the outside of a jeans pocket. It works better if I clip it over two pockets on the right side. (The clip goes over the regular pocket and into the otherwise useless small extra pocket.)


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## Hitthespot (Feb 10, 2008)

asdalton said:


> For me, it is also too loose when clipped to the outside of a jeans pocket. It works better if I clip it over two pockets on the right side. (The clip goes over the regular pocket and into the otherwise useless small extra pocket.)


 
I assume you are carrying the light on the outside of your pocket based on what your saying. If so I agree it is much tighter, but I really would like to have it inside the pocket.

Bill


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## yaesumofo (Feb 11, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*

Come again? I don't quite understand.
Yaesumofo


Size15's said:


> I was under the impression that the point was that it should need a lanyard.


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## Monocrom (Feb 11, 2008)

*Re: Surefire E1B Backup*



yaesumofo said:


> Come again? I don't quite understand.
> Yaesumofo


 
Seems like a typo. I'm thinking Al left out the word "not," from his post.


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## Unforgiven (Feb 11, 2008)

Continued


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