# L3 Illumination L08 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, VIDEO+



## selfbuilt (Mar 28, 2014)

*Warning: pic heavy, as usual. *

I recently reviewed 1xAA model from L3 Illumination, the L10. This review will be on the 1xAAA model, known as the L08. 











As with its big brother, the L08 is available with either a XP-G2 R5 (Cool White) or the Nichia 219 4500K 92CRI (Neutral White emitter). It is also available in 3-level of 4-level versions. 

The L08 also comes in the exact same range of anodizing colors as the L10. Please see my review of the L10 for the full set of colors, as I only have the orange, black and gray versions here.

Like the L10, L3 Illumination reports a common set of specifications for the two emitters. As you will see in my detailed testing later in this review, there are a few output differences between the emitters. 

*Manufacturer Reported Specifications:* 
(note: as always, these are simply what the manufacturer provides – scroll down to see my actual testing results).


LED: Cree XP-G2 R5 Cool White or Nichia NVSL219AT-H1 4500K, 92 CRI B10 Bin
Four modes of output: firefly (0.09lumens, 147hours) -> Low (3 lumens, 30hrs) -> Medium (30 lumens) --> High (120 lumens, 1.5hrs) _*(Reviewer's note: these specs are clearly inaccurate for runtime, as they are identical to the "2500mAh NiMH" rated specs of the L10 model)*_
Note: 3 mode model removes Firefly mode of 0.09 lumens. Low, Medium, High only
Stable current regulated circuit, stable brightness
Uses one 1.5V AAA battery (ni-mh, alkaline ). 10440 batteries are not recommeded, because they heat up quickly.
20-gram weight (excluding batteries)
Made of durable aircraft-grade aluminum
Premium Type III hard-anodized anti-abrasive finish
Waterproof to IPX-8 Standard
Toughened double ultra-clear glass lens
Reliable twist switch
Candle mode (Capable of standing up securely on a flat surface to serve as a candle)
Size: 77mm(length)x17.1mm(dia) and 14mm diameter at tail-end
Mode switch: Tighten and loosen the head to switch between modes.
No mode memory, always starts on Firefly mode 
MSRP: ~$21-23
One additional comment I will make about these specs – they are basically identical to the L10 specs, except the slightly lower max output on Hi (i.e., 90 lumens here, compared to 120 lumens on the L10 spec sheet). I strongly recommend you review the full testing results here - as I find something a little different ... 






Packaging is the same as the L10, and is very basic. A slightly opaque plastic "tube" contains the light, extra o-rings and a small keychain split ring. Printed on the outside of the container are the light specifics (including emitter type, color and mode number). A manual is included separately (although was out of date for the XP-G version in this case). As before, you are best to rely on the website for more recent emitter specs (although as stated above, runtimes specs are identical to the L10, which is clearly inaccurate).













From left to right: Duracell NiMH AAA; L3 Illumination L08; Crelant V10A; Olight i3s; Thrunite TiS; Foursevens Preon P1; Titanium Innovations Illuminati; L3 Illumination L08.









From left to right: Duracell NiMH AAA, AA; L08, L10, L08, L10.

All dimensions directly measured, and given with no batteries installed. Let's start with a comparison to the 1xAA L10 version, before a list of 1xAAA counterparts:

*L3 Illumination L08 (1xAAA)*: Weight: 22.4g, Length: 77.8mm, Width (bezel): 17.0mm
*L3 Illumination L10 (1xAA)*: Weight: 20.7g, Length: 79.4mm, Width (bezel): 17.1mm
*Lumintop Tool AAA*: Weight: 15.3g, Length 82.6mm, Width 14.4mm (bezel)
*Lumintop Worm Aluminum*: Weight: 14.3g, Length 72.0mm (battery installed, off), Width 14.1mm (bezel)
*Foursevens Preon P1*: Weight 15.3g (with keychain clip), Length 75.6mm, Width 14.0mm (bezel)
*Foursevens Preon P0*: Weight 13.0g (with keychain clip), Length 55.0mm, Width 12.6mm (bezel)
*Olight i3*: Weight 13.2g, Length: 71.9mm, Width (bezel): 14.0mm
*Titanium Innovations Illuminati Aluminum*: Weight 13.9g (with keychain clip), Length 68.8mm, Width 14.0mm (bezel)
*Klarus Mi X6*: Weight 16.2g, Length 72.9mm (battery installed), Width 12.8mm

As you can see, the L08 is slightly larger than most 1xAAA lights. Surprisingly, it is also slightly heavier than the 1xAA L10, despite have a thinner body (although with comparable overall head diameter). :thinking:

_EDIT: Of course, weight with battery installed will be higher on the L10, due to the larger size cell. Total weight with Eneloop battery is 34.1g for the L08, and 47.1g for the L10._


























The L08 feels like a solid light for this class, with its larger than typical head and slightly higher weight than typical. I would expect the L08 to hold up well to keychain carry (well, except for anodizing – but that's an issue for any flashlight you keep next to keys).  The anodizing quality seems quite good on the colors I have, with no chips on any of my samples (as was also the case on the full range of L10s I was sent). Manufacturer claims hard anodized (aka, type III), which is better than most colored lights (which are only of type II strength). 

The L08 has knurling all over the body, which is something most lights in this class lack. While not overly aggressive (i.e., it won't shred clothing), it does help with grip. You may still find it hard to use in twisry-fashion single-handed, due to the overall small size.

Screw threads are standard triangular cut, fairly fine (like most lights in this class). You can expect some play, but I found the fit to be tighter than typical for this class (although that may have had more to do with the o-ring than the threads). 

As you can see, the head of the L08 has a brass pill/base, like a number of lights in this class (presumably for heat-sinking purposes). The battery contact surface in the head is flat, but doesn't include a foam cushion like the L10. Also, there is an actual spring in the L08 tail now. oo: This is unusual, as most small lights (including the L10), only have a small raised metal post in the tail (hence the need for foam cushioning). This should help reduce the risk of crushing your AAA cells in this light.

FYI, the L08/L10 heads are the same diameter, and screw on to each other's body tubes.  However, there is one key difference – the L08's contact board is isolated from the pill, and needs to make contact with the unanodized ring near the top of L08 battery tube. What this means is that while the L10 head can potentially be run on the L08 body, the L08 head cannot be run on the L10 body. In practical terms, the spring design of the L08 body tube may make it difficult to maintain consistent contact with the L10 head (i.e., mode switching is difficult, if you were to try this). 

There are two small attachment points in the tailcap, with a cut-out for the keychain split-ring. As such, the L08s can tailstand stably. 

As mentioned earlier, the lights are distinguished by their emitter choice:

Nichia 219









XP-G2 R5













Centering was good on my Nichia 219 sample above – but pretty variable on the XP-G2 samples (both were noticeably off). This doesn't realty affect the beam on such small lights though. Both emitter versions seem to come with the same reflector – and which seems to be the same as the L10. Reflector is not overly deep, with an orange peel (OP) coating to smooth out the beam.

Please see my detailed beamshots later in this review, for each model.

*User Interface*

The L08 uses the same interface as the L10 – and one that is common on many AA/AAA-twisty lights. 

Fully tighten the head and it comes on in its lowest mode (Firefly or Low, depending on the model). Do a rapid twist off-on and the light advances to next level. Mode sequence is Firefly > Lo > Med > Hi in repeating sequence (or just Lo > Med > Hi for the 3-mode version). 

Turn the light off by loosening the head. There is no mode memory, and the light always defaults to its lowest setting if you wait more than a second or two before turning back on.

There is no strobe or SOS mode on the L08.

*Video*: 

For information on the light, including the build and user interface, please see my video overview:



Video was recorded in 720p, but YouTube typically defaults to 360p. Once the video is running, you can click on the configuration settings icon and select the higher 480p to 720p options. You can also run full-screen. 

As with all my videos, I recommend you have annotations turned on. I commonly update the commentary with additional information or clarifications before publicly releasing the video.

*PWM*

There is no sign of PWM at any output level, on any model. The L08 is current-controlled. 

As mentioned above, there is no strobe or SOS mode on the L08.

*Beamshots:*

For white-wall beamshots below, all lights are on Max output on a Sanyo Eneloop NiMH (800mAh). Lights are about ~0.75 meter from a white wall (with the camera ~1.25 meters back from the wall). 

Automatic white balance on the camera, to minimize tint differences – except for the Nichia 219, which is using a Daylight white balance on my Canon camera. 














































Beam tint differences are really the first thing you are likely to notice between these emitters. The 4500K on the Nichia is very pleasing (to my eye) neutral white. The higher color rendition index (CRI) should also help display colors more consistently. This is hard to capture on a camera though, due to the narrow range of white balancing options

The second most obvious difference is that the XP-G2 is more "throwy" than the Nichia 219, with a more defined hotspot on the XP-G2 models. 

*Testing Method:* 

All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, as described on my flashlightreviews.ca website. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan, except for any extended run Lo/Min modes (i.e. >12 hours) which are done without cooling.

I have devised a method for converting my lightbox relative output values (ROV) to estimated Lumens. See my How to convert Selfbuilt's Lightbox values to Lumens thread for more info. 

My summary tables are reported in a manner consistent with the ANSI FL-1 standard for flashlight testing. Please see http://www.flashlightreviews.ca/FL1.htm for a discussion, and a description of all the terms used in these tables. Effective July 2012, I have updated all my Peak Intensity/Beam Distance measures with a NIST-certified Extech EA31 lightmeter (orange highlights).

Note: The manufacturer recommends you do not run on 10440 (3.7V Li-ion), so I haven't tested them. 






The performance of the L08 samples is remarkably consistent with the L10 samples I tested previously. 

To explore this a little further, here is a breakdown of relative output levels on the L08, using my standard lumen estimation method:






In general, I get pretty good match between the Nichia 219 and XP-G2 samples at the Moonlight/Lo/Med levels – and reasonably good concordance to the specs. Where things get particularly interesting is on Hi – the XP-G2 samples were brighter than the Nichia 219, and both models are brighter than the specs would indicate.

To put these results into better context, let's take a look at how the L10 sample did in my earlier review: 






The above table is a little more complicated, as I had a sufficient number of samples of each L10 model to do statistical comparisons. The bolded numbers above tell you what you need to know. See my earlier L10 review for an explanation and discussion of the statistical methods.

Generally, the L08 samples performed very similar to the L10 samples tested previously (i.e., equivalent output, at all levels). However, my XP-G2 L08 were both marginally _brighter_ than my L10 XP-G2s (even though the specs say that are not driven as hard). :shrug: 

As you will see in the runtimes below, part of the reason for the slightly higher max output here may have to do with the AAA NiMH chemistry and capacity, compared to AA NiMH. We'll come back to that ...

In any case, based on these results alone, I would be tempted to conclude that the _L10 and L08 are using the exact same circuit_ (despite the lower reported specs for Hi on the L08). But let's see if that conclusion holds up on further battery runtime testing below … 

*Runtimes*

To facilitate output comparisons, I've left the y-axis (i.e., the relative output values) on the same scale for all Hi-mode runtimes.




















As you can see, the L08 is unusually bright on Hi and Med on NiMH Eneloops (for the AAA-class). Unfortunately, it seems to be draining the cells too quickly on Hi on NiMH Eneloops. Typically, the max safe discharge rate for NiMH is 2C (i.e., a full discharge in 30 mins). The L08 is definitely pushing the AAA Eneloop cells to those limits. :sigh: 

Another thing that is interesting to note is how much the output drops when run on standard alkaline or L92 AAA cells. For example, going from Eneloop to alkaline on Hi, my XP-G2 L08s drop from an ANSI FL-1 lumen estimate of 155 to 125 lumens, and my Nichia 219 L08 drops from 130 to 90 lumens. I had previously observed a small drop in output in my L10 testing (on the comparable AA battery sources), but the magnitude of the effect is much larger on the L08 with AAA cells. 

There are also runtime pattern changes between these two models as well – the L10s were far more flatly regulated on Hi, on all battery types (see my earlier L10 review for runtimes). 

There are two possible explanations here – either the circuit in the L08 responds differently than the L10 to battery voltage, or the lower capacity of AAA cells are affecting the results. Fortunately, I can partially verify this by testing the L10 heads on the L08 body.  Note that while this is technically feasible, it is a bit tricky given the body tube design differences (and won't work for the L08 head on the L10 body). See my build overview comments earlier in this review for more detail. 

Here is what the runtime comparisons look like, for Hi on alkaline or Eneloop.











The key point above is that when you run the L10 head with AAA cells on the L08 body, _it shows exactly the same lower output and stabilization characteristics as the L08_. These results make it very clear – the apparent performance differences between the L08 and L10 are due entirely to the difference in battery capacity and chermistray between AAA and AA. 

You also have an explanation aove for the slightly _higher_ max output of my XP-G2 L08 samples compared to the L10: either head, when run on AAA NiMH, shows _higher_ initial output than when run on AA NiMH. Eventually this levels off at a comparable output - but ANSI FL-1 output testing only takes into account the peak output within 30-120 secs after activation. Thus, the reason for the higher output on my L08 testing is due to the reduced stabilization pattern of AAA Eneloop cells compared to AA cells.

Taken together, this all supports my conclusion that there is no real difference in the circuit used in the L10 and L08. But there are build differences in how the head is assembled, so you can't easily switch body tubes (again, see my earlier build comments).

*Potential Issues*

Lights roll easily, unless you get the optional pocket clip.

Although still small in absolute terms, the L08 is relatively large for a 1xAAA light. The head has identical dimensions to the L10 model, for example, and overall weight is comparable between the 1xAA and 1xAAA models.

You need to tighten down pretty far to activate the light (i.e., the isolated contact board in the head needs to reach the unanodized aluminum ring in the body tube). 

Output levels are higher than typical for this 1xAAA class, resulting in lower than typical absolute runtimes. The L08 seems to be pushing standard 800mAh Eneloops to their max discharge rate on Hi.

10440 Li-ion is not supported.

*Preliminary Observations*

As my testing has shown, the L08 has basically the same "guts" as the 1xAA L10 that I reviewed previously. While overall functionality is similar to a number of competing lights in the AAA space, I find the L08's relatively high max output is brighter than most others in this class (at least on NiMH cells).

As with the L10, what really distinguishes the L08 is the option of the latest Cree XP-G2 R5 cool white emitter, or the popular Hi-CRI Nichia 219 neutral white emitter. You also have the option of a 3-level (Lo/Med/Hi) or 4-level (Firefly/Lo/Med/Hi) model. Finally, you have the option of a wide range of anodized colors, just like on the L10. That certainly must make for a lot more complicated inventory control. 

Personally, I like the extra Firefly level of the 4-mode option. Note that there is no mode memory on these lights, and they all start at their lowest level. 

Comparing the L08 performance to the L10 is interesting. Physically, the models have exactly the same size heads (i.e., it is just the body tubes that differ). And despite the lower output specs on Hi, I found the L08 to have pretty much exactly the same brightness as the L10, at all output levels tested. This makes the L08 quite the high output 1xAAA light – at least when run on NiMH (max output on alkaline or L92 lithium is lower, and more in keeping with this AAA class). Provisionally, I would have to conclude on the basis of this testing that these models share a common circuit.

Note that does not mean the heads are interchangeable. The body design has changed considerably from the L10, where the current passed through the threads and battery tension was maintained by a foam cushion in the head (with a raised tail post). In the L08, there is an isolated circuit board that makes contact with a dedicated area of the body tube (requiring the use of a tail spring instead of head cushion now).

Performance-wise, the various L08 configurations provide acceptable runtime for their output (although my one Nichia 219 sample seemed to underperform in relative terms). But note that the higher-than-typical relative output levels in each mode (for this class) means that absolute runtimes will be short. :shrug: Given the relatively low capacity of AAA cells, I would normally recommend you stick with NiMH Eneloops for the best possible performance. But in this case, the even higher output on NiMH means that standard 800mAh Eneloops are being pushed to their max discharge rate, which is not a good idea. Sadly, AAA-class cells cannot provide the same level of flat runtime stabilization as provided by AA cells in the L10.

Beam pattern is identical to the L10 (given the same size head), and is quite good on both emitter types. I personally prefer the slightly smoother hotspot-to-spill transitions of the Nichia 219 – not to mention its neutral white tint and higher CRI. But that choice is yours. 

Given the typical usage of AAA lights, I would personally have preferred a more streamlined build and lower drive levels on Med/Hi (i.e., the L08 has the same output levels and size head as the L10 in my testing). The Hi mode in particular could definitely benefit from being reduced. But you do have a reasonable range of other output modes available, especially on the 4-level version. And L3 Illumination does offer a lot of customization options on their small lights (it's always good to have more options to choose from). But this is one case where you may want to carefully consider whether the L10 could better meet your needs :wave:

----

L3 Illumination L08 lights were supplied by sbflashlights.com for review.


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## Ryp (Mar 28, 2014)

Thanks for the review!


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## wedlpine (Mar 28, 2014)

Been waiting for this review. Thank you.


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## AFearlessBirdOfParadise (Mar 28, 2014)

Thanks for the review, can I trouble you for a L08 vs L10 picture, side by side for size comparison, and maybe a couple of other views?

By the specs you posted it seems like a couple of mm difference, and it seems like the L08 is largeish for the class, and the L10 is petite for the class.


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## MBentz (Mar 28, 2014)

Wish the light was 14mm at the bezel. Thanks for the review selfbuilt.


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## MojaveMoon07 (Mar 28, 2014)

A couple of other AAA flashlights have claimed to have a high mode of ~ 130 lumens. But I was very doubtful about that claim because till now we hadn't seen a reviewed AAA flashlight with a high mode higher than 80-something lumens.

Question #1:
Given the chemistry of a AAA NiMh battery, is the regulation and runtime of this L08 AAA flashlight probably the best that any manufacturer will be able to achieve for a AAA flashlight with a comparable brightness of ~ 130 and ~ 155 lumens ?

Question #2:
Considering the regulation and runtime of the L08 AAA on high, could this shorten the lifespan of the NiMh battery ? For example since the odometer on a tiny pickup truck goes up to 100 or 120 mph, maybe you could manage to achieve that speed. But I assume that pickup truck would have a short life if you tried to regularly drive it at that speed.


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## selfbuilt (Mar 28, 2014)

AFearlessBirdOfParadise said:


> Thanks for the review, can I trouble you for a L08 vs L10 picture, side by side for size comparison, and maybe a couple of other views?


Yes, that's a good idea - I'll update the thread tomorrow. 



MojaveMoon07 said:


> Question #1:
> Given the chemistry of a AAA NiMh battery, is the regulation and runtime of this L08 AAA flashlight probably the best that any manufacturer will be able to achieve for a AAA flashlight with a comparable brightness of ~ 130 and ~ 155 lumens ?


Well, at the moment.  As emitters continue to improve in their luminous efficiency, I expect higher outputs will eventually be possible. I would say battery chemistry is what is limiting at the moment, which brings us to ...



> Question #2:
> Considering the regulation and runtime of the L08 AAA on high, could this shorten the lifespan of the NiMh battery ?


Yes, that is exactly the problem here. As long as you discharge a battery within its max safe discharge rate (which is 2C for NiMH - i.e., fully discharged in 30 mins), you should be fine. But as you can see my L08 samples seem to be exceeding that rate on standard 800mAh eneloops. That is not a good idea for the long-term health of your cells. 

Unfortunately, a runtime discharge curve only tells you so much - you would really need to be measuring battery temp and voltage under load to really know when a battery was being pushed too far. The battery gurus in the battery forum here could provide mode info, I am sure. 



MBentz said:


> Wish the light was 14mm at the bezel. Thanks for the review selfbuilt.


Yes, a small bezel would be more convenient for keychain carry. :shrug:


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## stevenkelby (Mar 28, 2014)

Why would someone choose this over the L10?


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## MojaveMoon07 (Mar 29, 2014)

Thank you selfbuilt


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## Lord_Foul (Mar 29, 2014)

Many thanks for the review.


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## gkbain (Mar 29, 2014)

Thanks for another excellent review.


> For white-wall beamshots below, all lights are on Max output on a Sanyo Eneloop NiMH (2000mAh)


 Isn't this suppose to be 800mAh?


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## selfbuilt (Mar 29, 2014)

stevenkelby said:


> Why would someone choose this over the L10?


Yes, I tend to favor the L10 myself for improved regulation and extra runtime (for roughly similar overall size). But weight with eneloop battery is 34.1g for the L08, and 47.1g for the L10 (if that matters).



gkbain said:


> Thanks for another excellent review. Isn't this suppose to be 800mAh?


Indeed, typo fixed.


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## selfbuilt (Mar 29, 2014)

As promised, here are some size comparisons of the L08 and L10:


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## cancow (Mar 30, 2014)

Exactly.".



stevenkelby said:


> Why would someone choose this over the L10?


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## Mr Floppy (Mar 30, 2014)

selfbuilt said:


> Yes, I tend to favor the L10 myself for improved regulation and extra runtime (for roughly similar overall size). But weight with eneloop battery is 34.1g for the L08, and 47.1g for the L10 (if that matters).



You could still use an AAA eneloop in the L10. The cheap plastic AAA->AA adapters are 3.4g (net 35.8g using AAA in L10), still, the L10 is still the preference for me too. Just goes to show how compact the L10 is.


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## markr6 (Mar 31, 2014)

Thanks for the review!

My reason for not purchasing an L08 from the beginning was the size...not much smaller than the L10. No real benefit here. Now that I see the runtimes, I have nothing else to contemplate and unfortunatley I can't talk myself into buying any.


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## zebraa (Apr 3, 2014)

markr6 said:


> Thanks for the review!
> 
> My reason for not purchasing an L08 from the beginning was the size...not much smaller than the L10. No real benefit here. Now that I see the runtimes, I have nothing else to contemplate and unfortunatley I can't talk myself into buying any.



Agreed. I was thinking with the diminutive size of a AAA, the light would be measurably smaller too-but not so with the L08. It looks like a good light, but it's just not any smaller than the L10. 

Thank you selfbuilt for your wonderful reviews that help us inform us, in an incredibly thorough and consistent manner!


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## ronniepudding (May 23, 2014)

Would you say that power and battery suspension mechanism in the L10 (i.e., "battery crusher" design, with foam doughnut) is better or worse than that of the L08 (i.e., spring and isolated board)? 

It seems to me like the L08 is a better design in that regard. Then again, has L3 Illumination just traded one problem ...
-- [risk of battery damage over time in the L10]
for another ...
-- [risk of circuit board wearing out where it contacts the body in the L08]
?


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## selfbuilt (May 23, 2014)

ronniepudding said:


> -- [risk of battery damage over time in the L10]
> for another ...
> -- [risk of circuit board wearing out where it contacts the body in the L08]


Yes, it is a bit of six of one, half a dozen of the other. Hard to know which is worse in the end. :shrug:


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## leon2245 (Jun 27, 2014)

stevenkelby said:


> Why would someone choose this over the L10?




I wouldn't, if they'd put a spring in the L10 too.

Also, I like that the head is larger than the body, for quick orientation in the dark (for those of us who carry loose in the pocket & not on a keyring). But that's less of a factor than the spring for me.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jun 27, 2014)

How hard do you have to twist to "crush" the battery? I have an L10 that I use with an Eneloop, and I've never noticed any damage to the battery. Do you mean a really hard twist, like you're taking the lid off a jar? Or can it be damaged from normal use? I also have a Preon P0 that uses the same design, and haven't noticed any battery damage from it either. Neither lights see much use, so does it only occur over time and a lot of usage?


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## reppans (Jun 27, 2014)

Yeah, I wouldn't call the L10 a battery crusher. The foam pad makes it feel cheap and less durable than a spring, but you only need to twist it down just enough to make electrical contact. Now the Peak QTC lights really do feel like battery crushers


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jun 28, 2014)

selfbuilt said:


> MojaveMoon07 said:
> 
> 
> > Considering the regulation and runtime of the L08 AAA on high, could this shorten the lifespan of the NiMh battery?
> ...



There's a good test of this for Eneloop cells here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...st-Generation-Vs-4th-Generation-Cycle-Testing

In summary, this guy torture-tested AA Eneloops to see how many cycles they get. The generation 1 cells got about 300 cycles (instead of 1000), and the generation 4 got about 600 or 700 cycles (instead of 2100). So while it's a lot less than the gentle usage that will get you the full 2100 cycles, it's still several hundred cycles if you abuse them. That's likely many years worth. I wouldn't worry about it.


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## leon2245 (Jun 28, 2014)

There is a three mode version right? Anyone know off hand who has it in stock, I'm only finding the 4 mode after quick search.





WalkIntoTheLight said:


> *How hard do you have to twist to "crush" the battery?* I have an L10 that I use with an Eneloop, and I've never noticed any damage to the battery. Do you mean a really hard twist, like you're taking the lid off a jar? Or can it be damaged from normal use? I also have a Preon P0 that uses the same design, and haven't noticed any battery damage from it either. Neither lights see much use, so does it only occur over time and a lot of usage?



Probably too hard to worry about too much- I think all sb said was that a spring reduces the risk, not that it's going to happen without. It's just the superior design choice vs. foam imo, and one I've been spoiled by already in a few (even <$20) twisties that managed springs to want to take a step back here. One of those preferences whose box wasn't checked with the L10, that L3 Illumination decided to upgrade in the L08, & i like it.


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## LG&M (Aug 3, 2014)

I have not been around much, glad to see your reviews are as good as ever.
Thanks for all the work you do.


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## liquidrazer (Sep 24, 2014)

ive been a luker on CPF for some time and recently joined. 

Dear selfbuilt, i have a love/hate relationship with you. your light reviews are nicely detailed and to the point. (fyi i am buying an l10 model as we speak because of this review.) i love you for your detication for the reviews but hate you for making me buy more light! the reason ive been on the site so much lately is that i had a foursevens mini ml on my keychain, but it recently died. =,( (hopefully foursevens can replace/repair). good news is, i think i found a replacement. bad news is i WANT MORE LIGHTS! but who am i kidding, i cant hate you! I LOVE U! thanks for all the hard work and reviews!


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## selfbuilt (Sep 24, 2014)

liquidrazer said:


> ive been a luker on CPF for some time and recently joined. !


:welcome:

I'm glad my reviews could help you decide what wasn't right for you (this light), and what hopefully is (the L10 review you posted in). :wave:


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## chorlton (Sep 28, 2014)

stevenkelby said:


> Why would someone choose this over the L10?



It has a spring contact instead of a foam doughnut, it is the best throwing light in aaa format, the only aaa with decent optics and a good range of outputs to use a nichia 219. For all these reasons I can forgive its size and it will still sit better in my watch pocket than the L10. Have ordered natural 4 mode nichia 219 from SB flashlights.... should be here soon...


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## ronniepudding (Oct 28, 2014)

selfbuilt said:


> ... that is exactly the problem here. As long as you discharge a battery within its max safe discharge rate (which is 2C for NiMH - i.e., fully discharged in 30 mins), you should be fine. But as you can see my L08 samples seem to be exceeding that rate on standard 800mAh eneloops. That is not a good idea for the long-term health of your cells.



I've noticed that the max output on the L08 has recently been reduced to 90 lumens. When I enquired with the manufacturer, they replied that this was done to improve runtimes on high. It also likely resolves the concerns of excessive battery discharge rate at 130-140 lumens. I realize this driver change doesn't make the light more appealing to those objecting to size/weight when compared to the L10 twisty, -- but for those who like the design of the L08 better, it does address the other main issue raised by Selfbuilt's review.


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## selfbuilt (Oct 28, 2014)

ronniepudding said:


> I've noticed that the max output on the L08 has recently been reduced to 90 lumens. When I enquired with the manufacturer, they replied that this was done to improve runtimes on high. It also likely resolves the concerns of excessive battery discharge rate at 130-140 lumens. I realize this driver change doesn't make the light more appealing to those objecting to size/weight when compared to the L10 twisty, -- but for those who like the design of the L08 better, it does address the other main issue raised by Selfbuilt's review.


That's good to know - thanks for sharing the update! :wave:


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## jon_slider (May 27, 2015)

Thanks for the great reviews selfbuilt
question about the excessive discharge rate, does partial discharge cause risk of shortened battery life, or only running the battery all the way dead on max output?



ronniepudding said:


> I've noticed that the max output on the L08 has recently been reduced to 90 lumens.


I just received an L08. I really doubt the max output mode has been reduced on mine. Its WAAAY brighter than my other 85 lumen lights, and much closer to my 152 lumen Thrunite Ti. Have not measured the lumens, just compared beams on my kitchen ceiling. 

I love the L08 for not having PWM, my First Impressions L3 Illumination L08 AAA N219B ...


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## selfbuilt (May 27, 2015)

jon_slider said:


> question about the excessive discharge rate, does partial discharge cause risk of shortened battery life, or only running the battery all the way dead on max output?


You would have to check with the battery experts in the batteries/electronics sub-forum here. But I would think any period of time exceeding 2C discharge on NiMH is not likely to be good for the cell. Not sure what the impact would be. I know for excessive discharge, regardless of rate (i.e., running the battery until it is dead) that this will damage the low-self-discharge characterisitics of eneloops (i.e., they won't hold a charge as long as afterwards), but it doesn't affect max storage capacity.


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## ronniepudding (May 28, 2015)

jon_slider said:


> I just received an L08. I really doubt the max output mode has been reduced on mine. Its WAAAY brighter than my other 85 lumen lights, and much closer to my 152 lumen Thrunite Ti. Have not measured the lumens, just compared beams on my kitchen ceiling.



You're using a NiMH AAA cell, right?

My post re: 90 lumens was in reaction to the spec for high mode output changing on the manufacturer's web site. I presumed that a circuit change had occurred, prompting the adjustment to the advertised spec. I emailed the manufacturer to inquire about this, and ... well, perhaps there was a misunderstanding due to my presumption.

In re-reading Selfbuilt's review just now, I came across this bit, which I didn't notice the first time:

"Another thing that is interesting to note is how much the output drops when run on standard alkaline or L92 AAA cells. For example, going from Eneloop to alkaline on Hi, my XP-G2 L08s drop from an ANSI FL-1 lumen estimate of 155 to 125 lumens, and my Nichia 219 L08 drops from 130 to 90 lumens. I had previously observed a small drop in output in my L10 testing (on the comparable AA battery sources), but the magnitude of the effect is much larger on the L08 with AAA cells."

So, the likely explanation is that I was mistaken regarding the reason for the spec change, and that it was simply an attempt to accurately represent performance on alkaline AAA cells, NOT an indication that max output had purposefully been changed/regulated on the L08. Sorry if my comment earlier misled anyone.


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## eh4 (Jul 12, 2015)

stevenkelby said:


> Why would someone choose this over the L10?



I've just ordered two of the L08 Nichia 4 mode models to make into necklace lights. 
I've got the system worked out with Thrunite Ti3 and I think the L08 will be a big improvement, especially with it having a proper low between firefly and med. With the Ti3 it's a pretty big jump. 
I never cared about aaa lights before getting the Nitecore Atom CPF anniversary light. I got it for the Nichia219 flood and didn't even realize that I ordered an aaa light till too late. 
Anyways the reason I've warmed to them is size and weight, particularly the smaller diameter of the battery tube. 
I can put a few layers of plastic dip in the end without the tube diameter increasing much, this makes it very comfortable to bite like a cigar. The light weight, small diameter and plastic coating add up to being comfortable enough to use without any inconvenience or discomfort. Talking, if necessary is no trouble, I just sound a little more like a gangster, See? 
So combine that with a comfortable cord tied to the light with a constrictor knot (I like the double constrictor) and it slips under my shirt and is forgotten about till needed. 
The greater weight and diameter of the L10 was much less convenient for this use, and I noticed it hanging on my neck. 
When the two L08 come in I'll grind the excess metal that forms the lanyard ring holes completely down to minimum length, then plastic dip, and form the base flat once the dip skins over. 






I've always got a bigger, better light in my pocket but this necklace configuration had been getting the most use by far. It's quick and easy to snag the cord with a finger and get the bite zone to my mouth rather than reaching for the light in my pocket, and then it's immediately hands free without messing with a clip or headband, then I drop the light and it hangs outside my shirt lighting up my lap or neutral work position if standing (say food prep or hand washing for instance). Then turn it off, back under the collar and I don't notice it till the next time I want light. 
It goes through the shower just fine too.
As a system it's so handy that I've gotten over my dislike of aaa batteries in order to make use of it.


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## eh4 (Jul 13, 2015)

I want to point out too that when I've got glue, dirt, solvents or other unwholesome stuff on my hands, the last thing I want to do is grab a light, click the button and then put the contaminated thing in my mouth. 
With the necklace system the light is protected under my shirt, and I don't ever have to touch the end that I bite, I can grab the light Through my shirt for that matter, as a glove. Just turn the bezel till the light is right. I'm not worried about any of my own cooties on my own skin afterall, I'm worried about chemicals and bugs on things that I have to handle. 
Nothing is perfect but this is working really well
The only thing I need to do is now is heat weld the ends of the nylon cord instead of tieing it, 
-so that the connection will break instead of hanging me if I got it snagged while falling off a ladder or whatnot.
Each battery is lasting for weeks, I swap and recharge them every weekor three. 
The aaa eneloop are usually down to 50-25%,


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