# Best USA manufacturer



## BugoutBoys (May 4, 2017)

Surefire, Streamlight, Malkoff, Elzetta, HDS


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## scout24 (May 4, 2017)

Yes to the above.


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## archimedes (May 4, 2017)

I'd add Peak :shrug:


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## richbuff (May 4, 2017)

Or this: candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?416653-Lights-you-would-trust-your-life-to, and subtract Fenix, to be in sync with the the current topic title.


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## Nichia! (May 5, 2017)

Malkoff For Life


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## KITROBASKIN (May 5, 2017)

Complete Respect to Malkoff (do not own one)

Oveready, without question, is the best manufacturer for quality and excellent design.


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## bykfixer (May 5, 2017)

Best is oh-so subjective. 

Quality? Well they're all quite good.

Best modularity:
Best bomb proof:
Best innovator:
Best at keeping up with current tech:
Best customer service:
Best pizaz:
Best selection:

I picked Elzetta because they send you a sticker with the hand written thank you note on a stack of Elzetta sticky notes. 

Simply put I think they all ROCK!


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## Modernflame (May 5, 2017)

Although this forum must be growing weary of me saying it, my answer is Malkoff. Elzetta would also be in the discussion.


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## Nichia! (May 5, 2017)

If only malkoff solve their PWM problem and replace their switches ( don't like McClicky ) they would be perfect..


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## Slumber (May 5, 2017)

Like 'em all, but for me....HDS takes the top spot.


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## peter yetman (May 5, 2017)

All of those, plus Oveready.
P


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## Grizzman (May 5, 2017)

Prometheus lights deserve mention also. 

McGizmos are supposed to be pretty nice.


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## cyberescudo (May 5, 2017)

I am stunned by the quality of HDS.


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## vadimax (May 5, 2017)

My vote goes to Elzetta. Best price/performance and aesthetic value. I mean the Bravo AVS line.


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## ven (May 5, 2017)

Yes add oveready and mcgizmo to the already mentioned, they are all better than the others at different things

Bottom line i guess you need a few or all of..................that way you can decide which is best for you Customer service is a major part as well............not too sure if surefire is up top there.


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## BugoutBoys (May 5, 2017)

ven said:


> Yes add oveready and mcgizmo to the already mentioned, they are all better than the others at different things
> 
> Bottom line i guess you need a few or all of..................that way you can decide which is best for you Customer service is a major part as well............not too sure if surefire is up top there.


What's wrong with Surefire's customer service?


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## peter yetman (May 5, 2017)

"Sharp intake of breath"........
Did you really mean to ask that?
If you did, this thread has about 12 hours to live.
Tick, tick, tick, tick..........
P


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## ven (May 5, 2017)

BugoutBoys said:


> What's wrong with Surefire's customer service?





No bad experience myself , just read a few issues(all on here) over the last year or so. Same breath(you can breath again P) i still read good customer service as well.

For example, oveready and malkoff...............nothing but great customer service, not read a single negative over the years.

I dont have all brands named, but a good few and they are all worthy of being part of anyone's flashlight ammunition. Some may seem quite spendy, but its definitely a case of buy once cry once. Other than loosing it, its a life time investment and usually up-gradable(p60/ engine etc).

BOB......................you defo need a HDS in your life, it will become your EDC for..........ever!


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## thenikjones (May 5, 2017)

Voted Surefire, would add McGizmo and Cool Fall at the top end. Have experience of both and very happy overall.


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## neutralwhite (May 5, 2017)

HDS HDS HDS


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## wimmer21 (May 5, 2017)

All of the above are worthy, and Muyshondt deserves mention here too.


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## Johnnyh (May 5, 2017)

Are Streamlights made in USA?


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## bykfixer (May 5, 2017)

Johnnyh said:


> Are Streamlights made in USA?



Some are, some are assembled here and many are China made.


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## ZMZ67 (May 5, 2017)

My vote goes to Malkoff but there are some good choices in that list.


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## Rob Babcock (May 5, 2017)

It's nearly impossible to choose just one "Best" but since that's the only poll choice I chose Elzetta. Malkoff stuff is just as durable if not more so and I trust it completely. I only have one Peak light- an _El Capitan_- and it's utterly reliable as well (and fully potted). Everything I have heard about HDS has been positive but I've never used on of their lights. Surefire is pretty good but IMO not in the same league as Elzetta and Malkoff.


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## GoVegan (May 5, 2017)

No idea why Malkoff lights get so much repect here when most of them have no reverse polarity protection (i.e. simply insterting a CR123 the wrong way around will and has killed Malkoff lights before). Also the MDC HA TAC 1CR123 has the worst non-tactical interface ever, where it can turn on in the lowest mode if you accedently double tapped the switch earlier.


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## GoVegan (May 5, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Some are, some are assembled here and many are China made.



Actually I think you'll find that no Streamlights are "Made in USA", only some are ""Assembled in USA", however most are "Made in China".


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## GoVegan (May 5, 2017)

BugoutBoys said:


> What's wrong with Surefire's customer service?



Well Surefire is known for not answering emails (but good if you call them and don't mind being in a queue for an hour or more), then again word on the street is that Elzetta has never checked their inbox since forever.


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## Arizona_Mike (May 5, 2017)

Why is 6 D-Cell Maglite not on the list?

Mike


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## Modernflame (May 5, 2017)

GoVegan said:


> Well Surefire is known for not answering emails (but good if you call them and don't mind being in a queue for an hour or more), then again word on the street is that Elzetta has never checked their inbox since forever.



Yeah, you've got to email Wade if you want a response. That info email address is a cyber graveyard. Also, they don't answer the phone. You have to leave a message and wait for a return call. I really dislike that. I also have a job and can't sit around waiting at their convenience. However, when you talk to someone, they're quite helpful.


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## Modernflame (May 5, 2017)

GoVegan said:


> No idea why Malkoff lights get so much repect here when most of them have no reverse polarity protection (i.e. simply insterting a CR123 the wrong way around will and has killed Malkoff lights before). Also the MDC HA TAC 1CR123 has the worst non-tactical interface ever, where it can turn on in the lowest mode if you accedently double tapped the switch earlier.



I agree that the lack of polarity protection is a concern, although by my count there are only two models in this category: the 1AA version and the 1 x CR123 SHO version. 

The MDC TAC that you referenced is protected against reverse polarity, as is the standard 1 X CR123 variant. 


IMHO, a single cell, sub-compact, multi-mode light would not be the ideal choice for tactical purposes, regardless of the manufacturer.


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## Rob Babcock (May 6, 2017)

Yeah, reverse polarity is an issue only for a tiny minority of their lights. Malkoff gets so much respect here because Gene makes terrific products and offers even better customer service. E-mails are answered promptly and thoroughly and Gene personally fields a lot of questions here at the forum. Malkoff as a company is also very nimble and responsive to customer desires. They make a ton of different products with many output levels, color temps and UIs, and all of them are built to the same high standards of quality.


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## JohnnyBravo (May 6, 2017)

Hmm. Now that I see this thread and see Malkoff at the top, I've prepped a cart at his website. An MDC Neutral XP-L 16650 (500 lms) light. I nearly clicked onto the Complete Order button, but my index finger got stuck. It'd be the most expensive light in my collection... I know, decision constipation.

EDIT: changed gears. Just ordered the MDC HA CR123 in 4k; a little less dough, and a way for me to test the Malkoff waters...


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## gsr (May 6, 2017)

First Light USA is another great US manufacturer.


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## Hogokansatsukan (May 6, 2017)

Honestly, when you ask which is the “best” it is very subjective. I have owned several lights from all those companies, even SureFire lights back when they were “Laser Products”. Everyone has their own idea of what is best. My mother’s chocolate chip cookies are the best, but then, that is what I am most familiar with.
If there were a lot of LEO’s here, then Streamlight would have a much bigger following. Why? That is typically what they are issued and used to. Not sure how many are voting who actually have owned several lights from the list… but if you have, you are a true flashaholic.
The top three on the list, Malkoff, ElZetta, and HDS are heads and tails (pun intended) above the rest. I would rank SF on the bottom of the list. They do not pot the electronics, and if you go buy business tactics (like so many have mentioned Gene Malkoff and his great service, or Henry… one may get good service form SF, however their business tactics over the years have been down right despicable, of which I will not go into here).
So you have to ask yourself, what am I going to use the light for? EDC, tactical with pistol, tactical with rifle, tactical sitting on the couch wearing Under Armor and watching an action movie (which is typically as tactical as most folks get… ah, but they like to dream!).
So, what is the purpose of the light for “BEST”? If you want a robust tactical light, then Malkoff or ElZetta will more than fit the bill. I would only rank Malkoff higher because I have spoken with Gene. I don’t know the ElZetta guys, though I have owned and used their lights. If I want an EDC light that is small, robust, and very programmable, then HDS. Bright enough for nearly all applications, built like a brick [email protected] house, and will go down to a crazy low level if I want it to. The problem I find with many lights is not that they are not bright enough, but that they are TOO bright for whatever application I am using them for. Kind of like hunting rabbits with a M1A SOCOM. Now, if I were going to put on the ballistic vest and run around chasing nasty people again, I would have a Malkoff/ElZetta AND an HDS. After you catch said nasty people, you have a lot of paperwork to fill out, some of it in the car.
Your question really should be what light is the best for… But you will still get as many answers as there are people here on the forum. So just do what the rest of us do… buy one of each… or two of each… or three…. you get the idea.


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## scout24 (May 7, 2017)

I think "Manufacturer" paints with a broad brush. Elzetta, Malkoff and HDS combined probably have less people working than Streamlight has in their HR department. Not impossible for a good sized company to make "best" products, but the smaller builders and boutique manufacturers tend to be able to stay true to one vision, one ideal. When we're lucky, that vision or ideal creates a product that can stand out above the competition in quality, etc.


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## Modernflame (May 7, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> EDIT: changed gears. Just ordered the MDC HA CR123 in 4k; a little less dough, and a way for me to test the Malkoff waters...



Eyeing one of those myself. The 4K option is a new feature as far as I know. My only hang up is the UI. Maybe I'm old school, but I love a good high/low resistor ring.


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## archimedes (May 7, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> Hmm. Now that I see this thread and see Malkoff at the top, I've prepped a cart at his website. An MDC Neutral XP-L 16650 (500 lms) light. I nearly clicked onto the Complete Order button, but my index finger got stuck. It'd be the most expensive light in my collection... I know, decision constipation.
> 
> EDIT: changed gears. Just ordered the MDC HA CR123 in 4k; a little less dough, and a way for me to test the Malkoff waters...



Saving money ?

Buying both in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... 

Be sure to let us know if you like it 

And congrats !


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## kaichu dento (May 7, 2017)

ven said:


> Yes add oveready and mcgizmo to the already mentioned...


Oveready and McGizmo definitely belong on that list. 

I thought it might be difficult to choose just one until I saw these two omitted, making it a simple thing to vote HDS.

Would have preferred to list them in order of preference, but at any rate, if the OP will add these two, it would be a good thing.


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## JohnnyBravo (May 7, 2017)

WOW, Malkoff and HDS are now tied w/ 12 votes each. Wonder how this poll will end up/settle down?


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## the0dore3524 (May 7, 2017)

I've had both...HDS is my pick overall. I will say though that my Malkoff MDC is the one light I truly regret selling. It was an awesome, robust light.


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## wimmer21 (May 7, 2017)

scout24 said:


> I think "Manufacturer" paints with a broad brush. Elzetta, Malkoff and HDS combined probably have less people working than Streamlight has in their HR department. Not impossible for a good sized company to make "best" products, but the smaller builders and boutique manufacturers tend to be able to stay true to one vision, one ideal. When we're lucky, that vision or ideal creates a product that can stand out above the competition in quality, etc.



Very well said! I mean, well written, or well put? Hmm... good job!


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## RobertMM (May 8, 2017)

Love Hogo's post.


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## tab665 (May 8, 2017)

voted malkoff. in terms of "best USA manufacturer" he seems to keep up with the demand well, has a wide variety of products, and makes dependable products. drop-ins, EDC sized lights, flooders, throwers. there have simply been too many "when did you order your HDS?" threads over the years to consider HDS the best manufacturer.


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## Kd5jha (May 8, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Some are, some are assembled here and many are China made.



The original product line (Stinger,Strion,Etc.) are USA Made. The Newer Line like the Protac Series are China Sourced, but I have a couple and they are quality lights, probably designed by streamlight and just fabricated in China to keep costs competitive.


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## nfetterly (May 8, 2017)

Voted Malkoff. Gene has answered (promptly) several of my emails - including ones on old or more obscure drop-ins he made (in one case where I was trying to sell on second hand market and wanted confirmation it was his). Always a pleasure to deal with. Never had an issue with his products.


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## marinemaster (May 8, 2017)

I say no to HDS based in that it should not take $250 entry level light to make a reliable light. Used to be $125 or so then price jumped to $250. Say someone is deployed in a war zone then maybe. With the arrogant nature of HDS dealers and their 20% restocking fee HDS is a no go for me. And no I'm not buying directly from HDS site I always felt nickel and dime there.

SF has got way expensive also. Their 6P is crap these days not sure where they make them but it feels like a tin can compared to the 6P I used to buy 15 years ago. Way less metal !!! Their multi level lights easily pass $250 starting point. 

Malkoff is great but no longer use their lights. He always answers emails. Top notch customer service.

The only one I buy these days is Streamlight only the Propoly line. They get tons of bonus points for innovation that leds allow these days. They have done great things with their polymer lights. 

I would say the newest reflector design from SF is very innovative the beam is amazing on the Titan AAA too bad is so expensive to get that reflector design on other of their lights.


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## dml24 (May 9, 2017)

Malkoff and Elzetta appear to great compnies. For us with limited budgets, Remix lights hit the quality, price, performance and reliability points just right.


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## TKC (May 9, 2017)

*​Malkoff!!*


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## vadimax (May 9, 2017)

TKC said:


> *​Malkoff!!*



Malkoff lights are ugly IMHO  Look like 3 cylinders glued together. Pffft


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## Chauncey Gardiner (May 9, 2017)

When I was in first grade our teacher was practiced at saying, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Great advice. 

~ Chance


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## Pinarello (May 9, 2017)

Agree 100%


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## DAN92 (May 9, 2017)

I voted Surefire because I have always remained faithful to this brand.

My Rankings: 

Surefire, Malkoff, Elzetta, HDS Systems.


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## Modernflame (May 9, 2017)

I've never owned an HDS, but I trust the consensus view regarding their quality. My only reticence about ranking them near the top has to do with their limited product line. Would you like a small, low powered pocket light or a small, low powered pocket light? Pick any one you like.

IMHO, Surefire has fallen from a great height. In the old days, they were the original incandescent collossus, the first and only real choice. Their recent products seem cheap compared to Elzetta/Malkoff, like the Chinese bargain lights on Amazon. I sold my last Surefire after I received my first Elzetta. Haven't looked back.


Elzetta deserves more love than they've gotten in this survey, but I also wouldn't put them at the top, owing to their creative dependence on Gene Malkoff. They're also slow to respond to customer inquiries. 


Not sure about Streamlight. I had an incandescent Stinger about a hundred years ago, but no modern LED lights.


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## BugoutBoys (May 9, 2017)

DAN92 said:


> I voted Surefire because I have always remained faithful to this brand.
> 
> My Rankings:
> 
> Surefire, Malkoff, Elzetta, HDS Systems.



I completely agree with your rankings!


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## richbuff (May 9, 2017)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> When I was in first grade our teacher was practiced at saying, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Great advice.
> 
> ~ Chance


Same thing with pictures; that is why I don't post comparative beamshots. I don't want anyone to think I am purposely making something look ashen and pale and peaked and wan. 

Same thing with user interface: What makes me irritated is exactly what half the world is clamoring for. Same thing with size, power, throw versus flood. What I have no use for, others are needing, and vice versa. Same thing with cost classification. What I turn my nose up at, others love to rescue and repair. So, I just say what I like, and omit the rest.


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## the0dore3524 (May 9, 2017)

BugoutBoys said:


> I completely agree with your rankings!



I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this one. While Surefire lights are definitely a lot better than the Chinese manufacturers, HDS, Malkoff, and Elzetta have them beat in terms of quality. Especially HDS, as I have owned lights from all four. That being said, I respect your commitment to Surefire and am sure that many others have similar sentiments regarding the brand.


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## RoJohn L. Sugg (May 9, 2017)

I think SureFire is the best manufacturer in USA, though their flashlights are expensive.


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## BruceMKuykendall (May 10, 2017)

I love surefire flashlights, but sometimes, their flashlights are too expensive to me, so I may choose other flashlights as well if they are good and not that expensive.


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## ven (May 10, 2017)

BugoutBoys said:


> I completely agree with your rankings!




Trouble is you can't make a fair assessment until you have lived with each brand for a while. Reliability, run times, UI, colour temp/tint consistency etc etc. Everyone has their preferences, and imo anyway you need experience with different brands for a comparison. Besides that, it's subjective anyway.....

I have more surefire (hosts anyway) to the other brands, I like them a lot but HDS make a better complete light imo. Now I am not saying HDS is better, only better IMO if makes sense.(example).


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## Tribull (May 10, 2017)

I know that I'm going to take some heat in here for saying this, but Maglite although not very innovative makes some pretty good quality lights and have for quite some time. They're certainly not number one, but I thought they deserved a mention have a few myself.


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## JohnnyBravo (May 10, 2017)

I agree with you Tribull. Even though I don't care for the tints on some models and that they're only "water resistant," I feel absolutely confident that when I click the button on a Maglite, it's going to light up! I'm sure many law enforcement officers have used Maglites almost exclusively in the past; not as much currently, but the product is solid indeed. 



Tribull said:


> I know that I'm going to take some heat in here for saying this, but Maglite although not very innovative makes some pretty good quality lights and have for quite some time. They're certainly not number one, but I thought they deserved a mention have a few myself.


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## BugoutBoys (May 10, 2017)

Tribull said:


> I know that I'm going to take some heat in here for saying this, but Maglite although not very innovative makes some pretty good quality lights and have for quite some time. They're certainly not number one, but I thought they deserved a mention have a few myself.


I agree, I love maglites. They make great 'toolbox' lights and camping lights for sure! And they are so simple and reliable


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## bigfoot (May 11, 2017)

Hard to choose just one... of those on the list, I'd go with HDS or Malkoff due to their potting of the electronics. Especially since the OP mentioned "...trust your life to".


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## maglite mike (May 11, 2017)

BugoutBoys said:


> I agree, I love maglites. They make great 'toolbox' lights and camping lights for sure! And they are so simple and reliable


I think maglites sell more lights in a year then the rest of these lights combined. I vote malkoff for higher end pricier lights and maglite for lower end less expensive yet reliable lights .


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## Tribull (May 11, 2017)

Exactly


maglite mike said:


> I think maglites sell more lights in a year then the rest of these lights combined. I vote malkoff for higher end pricier lights and maglite for lower end less expensive yet reliable lights .


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## Ozythemandias (May 11, 2017)

This thread makes me want a Malkoff. 

I'd trust my life to an HDS, and for a non american option, an Armytek.


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## leon2245 (May 11, 2017)

As much as I hate making people mad, on the internet, Maglite is the clear choice to me.


edit- imo ymmv afaik only positive opinions permitted


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## bykfixer (May 11, 2017)

Agreed Leon. 
Maglite are like Converse Chuck Taylors and Levis jeans.
Decade after decade they still remain relevant to a whole bunch of people.


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## Hogokansatsukan (May 11, 2017)

I think Fire on a Stick should be considered. Good review here.


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## noboneshotdog (May 11, 2017)

I have had some of the worst experiences w Mag Lights. They were the reason I found CPF in the first place. Never owned one that did not flicker after several months of HARD use. I got sick of having to smack the side of them to temporarily stop the flicker. Maybe I abuse my lights more than some people. I would never go back to Mag Lights. I just want to be 100% honest. Sorry but this had been my actual experience with many C, D, and AA Mags.

Edit. Please note that all of my Mags were store bought. I am not dissing the wonderful mods many of you guys have made from your Mag Lights. That is a whole different thing.


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## CREEXHP70LED (May 11, 2017)

Surefire, they are the only brand mounted on my weapons.


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## Rob Babcock (May 11, 2017)

I'm a little to surprised to hear all the accolades for Mag-lites. My experience with them was the worst. I had several of them (maybe four? hard to remember exactly) in the late 80's and early 90's and only one of them was still working after a year. I have shared this story before but my Mom now has that ancient 3 D-cell mag and it still works but it's the only one I ever had that I could count on. The smaller ones seem better though.


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## leon2245 (May 12, 2017)

Nice, merely surprised is better than surprised and angered.


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## Rob Babcock (May 12, 2017)

leon2245 said:


> Nice, merely surprised is better than surprised and angered.


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## Modernflame (May 13, 2017)

I'm interested in more group input regarding the newer, stock LED Mag lites. Some day, I'd like to get an older incandescent model and upgrade it with a Malkoff drop in and the glass breaker end cap. Until then, I'm curious about the performance of the sub $50 LED offerings at Walmart.


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## JohnnyBravo (May 13, 2017)

Have had my Malkoff MDC HA CR123 4000k for 2 days now. I like it! The tint/color is SWEET! My other lights are jealous. Glad to see that the pocket clip was redesigned to allow tail standing. 

At this point, best USA manufacturer is a toss up to me - between SureFire and Malkoff. I've no experience w/ Streamlight nor HDS yet.


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## bykfixer (May 13, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> I'm interested in more group input regarding the newer, stock LED Mag lites. Some day, I'd like to get an older incandescent model and upgrade it with a Malkoff drop in and the glass breaker end cap. Until then, I'm curious about the performance of the sub $50 LED offerings at Walmart.



Some folks here swear by them. All I have LED'd big Mag is a 275 lumen 2D Pro, and it's way, way brighter than the 2D incan model... but using 18650's (w/a 75 mm piece o plastic pipe sleeve) and some higher cell count bulb is fun too


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## hsa (May 13, 2017)

Do a search for Celtic Cross 74 and read his posts on mags. He has used every flashlight made including new and old mags and all the drop ins. It is good reading.


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## k3751 (May 13, 2017)

I've used Surefire and Streamlights for about fifteen years, Malkoff for over five, and HDS for about 3. Never used an Elzetta, but I'd like to add one (some?) to the collection. Of those four, Surefire is the only one that has never failed for me. Streamlight and Malkoff made it right (and then some, with Malkoff) and my HDS was remedied with a battery change. I trust all four, but if I had to pick just one, it'd be Surefire. "trust your life to" in my opinion has nothing to do with beam quality or customer service, but rather reliability and, to a lesser extent, UI.


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## mega_lumens (May 13, 2017)

In my opinion, the question what is best is too vague for the poll to be be useful. Best at what--- constant R&D, diverse applications, mass production/availability, durability/quality control? 
Some manufacturers may be good at quality but have chronic production delays and little diversity in flashlight choice. Others are good at fast R&D and mass production. etc.. But you will not go wrong with any brand-name listed. I will say that Streamlight has most diverse product line and wider reach in consumers: from police departments to military, to firefighting to dangerous industrial applications. I don't know of any other major or smaller brand whose lights carry various stringent certifications especially for industrial applications where a flick of a light can cause an explosion in some complex.


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## Mundo472 (May 13, 2017)

Where is Peak and Okluma on this list?


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## k3751 (May 13, 2017)

mega_lumens said:


> In my opinion, the question what is best is too vague for the poll to be be useful. Best at what--- constant R&D, diverse applications, mass production/availability, durability/quality control?
> Some manufacturers may be good at quality but have chronic production delays and little diversity in flashlight choice. Others are good at fast R&D and mass production. etc.. But you will not go wrong with any brand-name listed. I will say that Streamlight has most diverse product line and wider reach in consumers: from police departments to military, to firefighting to dangerous industrial applications. I don't know of any other major or smaller brand whose lights carry various stringent certifications especially for industrial applications where a flick of a light can cause an explosion in some complex.



The title says "which would you trust your life to."


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## BugoutBoys (May 13, 2017)

k3751 said:


> The title says "which would you trust your life to."



I think that was read over by many =P I think I'll change the title to be more specific to that.


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## Str8stroke (May 13, 2017)

Well this is a interesting read.

I own some of every brand mentioned in all the posts. ha! 

IMHO: I find the Thread topic to be sorta two pronged and open to much interpretation. I may think "Best" means the manufacture that offers the best value for dollar. You may think "Best" is the one that has your favorite User Interface. Anyways, y'all get the point. So for my "Best" I am going to kinda define what I think is "Best". Best overall value, quality, runtimes, flexibility, customer service, I carry the most: HDS Rotary. I consider it a Must Own light. 

Then there is the whole, my life may hinge on selecting the proper flashlight in order to continue living. My answer is simple for this one, Surefire. My reasoning is: Most all of my personal protection and home offense equipment are sporting Surefire lights. So I guess you could theorize some lives may depend on a Surefire & Surefire cells. After all, I am not planning on emailing Surefire Customer Service about the Anodizing colors, Tint or artifacts in my beam during a life or death situation.


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## bykfixer (May 13, 2017)

^^ Well put


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## Slumber (May 13, 2017)

I understood the 'life depends on it'....I chose the manufacturer of the light I'd pick if I could only own one light for a prolonged period of time...HDS.


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## Ozythemandias (May 13, 2017)

k3751 said:


> I've used Surefire and Streamlights for about fifteen years, Malkoff for over five, and HDS for about 3. Never used an Elzetta, but I'd like to add one (some?) to the collection. Of those four, Surefire is the only one that has never failed for me. Streamlight and Malkoff made it right (and then some, with Malkoff) and my HDS was remedied with a battery change. I trust all four, but if I had to pick just one, it'd be Surefire. "trust your life to" in my opinion has nothing to do with beam quality or customer service, but rather reliability and, to a lesser extent, UI.



I don't think emptying a battery can be considered a failure on the part of the manufacturer.


----------



## Rob Babcock (May 13, 2017)

Str8stroke said:


> So I guess you could theorize some lives may depend on a Surefire & Surefire cells.



I think you'd be trusting Panasonic batteries. It's my understanding that SF does not and has never made batteries, Panasonic just puts a SF wrapper on a Panasonic battery.


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## JohnnyBravo (May 14, 2017)

I understand that the Panasonic factory in Georgia, USA, makes the cells for SureFire, Ray O Vac, and Battery Station. So I'd say I'd trust my life to Panasonic primaries and/or rechargeables (Orbtronic) in my SureFires or my Malkoff...



Rob Babcock said:


> I think you'd be trusting Panasonic batteries. It's my understanding that SF does not and has never made batteries, Panasonic just puts a SF wrapper on a Panasonic battery.


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## Str8stroke (May 14, 2017)

Slumber Pass said:


> I understood the 'life depends on it'....I chose the manufacturer of the light I'd pick if I could only own one light for a prolonged period of time...HDS.


Perfect answer. I would pick HDS for that too. Too often we forget that other people have different views and definitions. 



Rob Babcock said:


> I think you'd be trusting Panasonic batteries. It's my understanding that SF does not and has never made batteries, Panasonic just puts a SF wrapper on a Panasonic battery.


Are you positive? lol j/k don't want to derail thread. We must stay on topic. :thumbsup:


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## bykfixer (May 14, 2017)

The panasonic factory makes SureFire, Streamlight, Rayovac, Battery Station (iirc Duracell) yes...

But they are not just a bunch of panasonics with other labels wrapped around them. In terms of automotive batteries I'll say they differ. 
Rayovac would be like your trolling motor battery where deep cycles are it's niche. Fast drain is not it's strong point. 
SureFire for example would be like the battery for your big block hot rod truck on a January morning. It's virtue is cold cranking amps so-to-speak in that it's voltage remains more stable in quick draw applications than say the Rayovac.

The Streamlight and Panasonic are nearly the same capacity-wise and stability-wise. SureFire and Battery Station are nearly the same. 

Elzetta and Malkoff sell Battery Station cells. That says a lot about their batteries. 

Like the light companies in this thread I feel they are all worthy of praise. I place Rayovac at the top of my list personally because they tend to give a bit better run time my lights. But the ones that I count on when the chips are down have SureFire or Battery Stations (in no particular order)


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## k3751 (May 14, 2017)

Ozythemandias said:


> I don't think emptying a battery can be considered a failure on the part of the manufacturer.



I dropped the light from about waist high. When I picked it up, it wouldn't turn on. I immediately opened the light and discovered the AW 16340 inside was venting. 

Maybe this was a bad/poorly made cell, but I've dropped several lights with primaries and rechargeables and never had this issue. Now, I cringe anytime the light gets dropped, bumped, etc.


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## peter yetman (May 14, 2017)

Unless I'm very much mistaken, high quality cells have a built in valve to vent when there's a problem. I imagine that's what yours did rather than blowing up. So in a funny way that quality cell probably saved you a burn or two.
P


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## k3751 (May 14, 2017)

peter yetman said:


> Unless I'm very much mistaken, high quality cells have a built in valve to vent when there's a problem. I imagine that's what yours did rather than blowing up. So in a funny way that quality cell probably saved you a burn or two.
> P



Absolutely. Still scared the crap outta me though!! In all reality, I could probably drop the same light with the same type of cell from my roof a dozen times and not have an issue, but that thought is still in the back of my mind...


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## Rob Babcock (May 14, 2017)

It's my understanding that Panasonic is the only maker of CR123a batteries in the US. All the batteries they make might not identical but I'm 98.5% certain that SF batteries are manufactured by Panasonic. SF does not make batteries and never has so far as I know. The only SF thing about them is the red label, of that I'm pretty confident.


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## Greighps (May 14, 2017)

Slumber Pass said:


> Like 'em all, but for me....HDS takes the top spot.



+1 

It has been my everyday carry for 5 years now. Its done 3 deployments (2 to afghanistan and 1 to iraq) and was attached to the front of an M4 for 2 of those. I have beaten the living sh*t out of it. 

Now I use it in my everyday civilian job, I never, ever, leave the house without it. I'm now looking to join the military again, and it will continue to have the hell beaten out of it and I know without a doubt it will stand up to the abuse. 

Customer service wise, Henry has been great, responds to emails just as quick now, as he did 5 years ago. And I might add, its great to be able to email, call or send your light back to the owner/ founder of the company. 

I think you should also add in the factor of warranties. And once again, HDS's warranties are among the best in the industry.


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## TA_ls1 (May 18, 2017)

I have to give my vote to Malkoff. I just ordered my first, which is a M91 MD3, yesterday. I've communicated with Gene multiple times via phone and email over the last few days. He was always prompt, polite, and very helpful. My order also shipped the same day, so now I just have to wait for the mail.

I have an HDS too, but it failed once, and Henry wasn't so fast in responding to me. I had to wait over a month to get it back too. So for me Malkoff is #1, and I am confident that Gene will take care of anything right away.


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## Ozythemandias (May 18, 2017)

I own many HDS lights but this thread prompted me to go buy a Malkoff. Had the MDC in my cart for days, literally days and I cant bring myself to pull the trigger. Thought about why for a while, after all, the output is similar and I'm probably paying twice to thrice as much for Henry's work, yet I still cant buy the MDC. 

Discussed it, and someone pointed out that Malkoff is just boring. It works, its reliable, super reliable even, but its not exciting or terribly innovative. Henry on the other hand, hoooboy its sexy! Not with raw output, but with UI, quality, design, history, just everything about it is exciting (to me at least). And so, I buy more and more HDS but I'm still trying to work up enough motivation for the MDC.


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## the0dore3524 (May 18, 2017)

Ozythemandias said:


> I own many HDS lights but this thread prompted me to go buy a Malkoff. Had the MDC in my cart for days, literally days and I cant bring myself to pull the trigger. Thought about why for a while, after all, the output is similar and I'm probably paying twice to thrice as much for Henry's work, yet I still cant buy the MDC.
> 
> Discussed it, and someone pointed out that Malkoff is just boring. It works, its reliable, super reliable even, but its not exciting or terribly innovative. Henry on the other hand, hoooboy its sexy! Not with raw output, but with UI, quality, design, history, just everything about it is exciting (to me at least). And so, I buy more and more HDS but I'm still trying to work up enough motivation for the MDC.



Totally agree with this. Gene's stuff is all about bare-bones simplicity, something that I can't always reciprocate. So, as much as I like the one or two Malkoff I've had, HDS always comes first for me.


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## JohnnyBravo (May 18, 2017)

At this point, I'd trust my life most to SureFire; I know, it's not "potted," but I'm not dropping my lights THAT hard nor worried much about EMPs. I have yet to try out Streamlight and HDS. But nothing in Streamlight's line-up gets my attention, and with HDS, the price for admission is a bit too much for me...


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## noboneshotdog (May 18, 2017)

Is OverReady a USA made light? If so where do they stand in this line up of great manufacturers? 

I'm trying to decide on a first high end rock solid light. HDS, Malkoff, or OverReady ???


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## Rob Babcock (May 18, 2017)

Ozythemandias said:


> Discussed it, and someone pointed out that Malkoff is just boring. It works, its reliable, super reliable even, but its not exciting or terribly innovative. Henry on the other hand, hoooboy its sexy! Not with raw output, but with UI, quality, design, history, just everything about it is exciting (to me at least). And so, I buy more and more HDS but I'm still trying to work up enough motivation for the MDC.



Elzetta and Malkoff are the ideal kind of boring, I guess that's why I own so many of their products. They both make lights that are dead simple to use that work every time.


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## JohnnyBravo (May 18, 2017)

less is more eh?


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## carl (May 19, 2017)

noboneshotdog said:


> Is OverReady a USA made light? If so where do they stand in this line up of great manufacturers?



Yes, Oveready is made in Oregon, USA.

http://www.oveready.com/index.php



More recently, there is Texas Lumens made in, well, Texas.

http://www.texaslumens.com/gallery.html


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## Modernflame (May 19, 2017)

Ozythemandias said:


> I own many HDS lights but this thread prompted me to go buy a Malkoff. Had the MDC in my cart for days, literally days and I cant bring myself to pull the trigger. Thought about why for a while, after all, the output is similar and I'm probably paying twice to thrice as much for Henry's work, yet I still cant buy the MDC.
> 
> Discussed it, and someone pointed out that Malkoff is just boring. It works, its reliable, super reliable even, but its not exciting or terribly innovative. Henry on the other hand, hoooboy its sexy! Not with raw output, but with UI, quality, design, history, just everything about it is exciting (to me at least). And so, I buy more and more HDS but I'm still trying to work up enough motivation for the MDC.



Interesting perspective. I'd never considered that the simplicity of Malkoff devices might be a turn off for some users. For me, simplicity is a primary source of attraction.


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## Ozythemandias (May 19, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> Interesting perspective. I'd never considered that the simplicity of Malkoff devices might be a turn off for some users. For me, simplicity is a primary source of attraction.



Simplicity in operation and simplicity in design are two different things. I love lights simple to operate (HDS, Zebralight etc) that have a stunning amount of innovation and engineering behind the scenes.


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## Modernflame (May 19, 2017)

Ozythemandias said:


> Simplicity in operation and simplicity in design are two different things. I love lights simple to operate (HDS, Zebralight etc) that have a stunning amount of innovation and engineering behind the scenes.



I understand the appeal. I may end up with an HDS, myself. I do wish HDS would consider offering at least one additional model, preferably something larger with more punch. I'm not a lumen chaser, but it seems that the HDS, while ideal for most indoor use, would run out of reach fairly quickly outside. True, the MDC would also, but that's why I love the Hound Dog series from Malkoff.


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## Random Dan (May 19, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> I understand the appeal. I may end up with an HDS, myself. I do wish HDS would consider offering at least one additional model, preferably something larger with more punch. I'm not a lumen chaser, but it seems that the HDS, while ideal for most indoor use, would run out of reach fairly quickly outside. True, the MDC would also, but that's why I love the Hound Dog series from Malkoff.



I find that the opposite is true regarding brightness. For my daily light I like having more lumens in case I need to complete with other light sources, such as when looking under a desk in a well lit room. Outdoors however, I rarely find myself needing more than 30 lumens and anything over 150 seems obnoxiously bright.


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## Ozythemandias (May 19, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> I understand the appeal. I may end up with an HDS, myself. I do wish HDS would consider offering at least one additional model, preferably something larger with more punch. I'm not a lumen chaser, but it seems that the HDS, while ideal for most indoor use, would run out of reach fairly quickly outside. True, the MDC would also, but that's why I love the Hound Dog series from Malkoff.



Interestingly, the 250lm version has more reach than the 350lm. Point to it ponder and FYI if you ever decide to buy one.


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## Modernflame (May 20, 2017)

Random Dan said:


> I find that the opposite is true regarding brightness. For my daily light I like having more lumens in case I need to complete with other light sources, such as when looking under a desk in a well lit room. Outdoors however, I rarely find myself needing more than 30 lumens and anything over 150 seems obnoxiously bright.



Granted, although when I'm outside I have to compete with city lights, car head lights, etc. If I'm on the trails I can get away with much less illumination, but it's nice to push a beam of light through the trees to identify the source of a sound.


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## Modernflame (May 20, 2017)

Ozythemandias said:


> Interestingly, the 250lm version has more reach than the 350lm. Point to it ponder and FYI if you ever decide to buy one.



That's good to know. I think the 250lm version owes its extra reach to the smaller surface area of the XP-G2. When it comes to a light that size, however, I'd be more likely to make a choice based on beam tint. Is the 350lm version more neutral?


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## Kd5jha (May 20, 2017)

Probably Would not have been what I would have chosen for the job, but at work in every major office area at some point before I got there someone purchased and installed an original incandescent Magcharger light. Probably have 10 here in the building. These lights do spend a lot of time on the charger, but when I need them they work. We recently went through a big flood, and I needed emergency light to perform first response work in dark buildings. What did I grab in the heat of the moment, two of these Magchargers, because My surefire was off for warranty repair...

My experience during that emergency, was that even though they were incandesant, they still had long battery life and were plenty bright. Also even though they were larger than my other light I found that that was a bonus and not a handicap because when you're standing in water up to your waist and trying to use a flashlight it helps for it to be easy to hold onto. Had I been able to locate my headlamp that would've been even better but I couldn't find it at the time. Having these flashlights in a location where they never move turned out to be the best thing because they're always there when you need them. If these had been the LED Version the battery might still be going 😉 

I will say that these are not the original batteries, we have replaced the batteries at least three times in these lights due to age. I no longer buy the factory battery, I get my replacements from interstate battery. Cheaper and more capacity.

I'm guessing that the Magcharger is built to a better quality standard than the entry-level lights.


----------------


noboneshotdog said:


> I have had some of the worst experiences w Mag Lights. They were the reason I found CPF in the first place. Never owned one that did not flicker after several months of HARD use. I got sick of having to smack the side of them to temporarily stop the flicker. Maybe I abuse my lights more than some people. I would never go back to Mag Lights. I just want to be 100% honest. Sorry but this had been my actual experience with many C, D, and AA Mags.
> 
> Edit. Please note that all of my Mags were store bought. I am not dissing the wonderful mods many of you guys have made from your Mag Lights. That is a whole different thing.


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## Hogokansatsukan (May 20, 2017)

Kd5jha said:


> Probably Would not have been what I would have chosen for the job, but at work in every major office area at some point before I got there someone purchased and installed an original incandescent Magcharger light. Probably have 10 here in the building. These lights do spend a lot of time on the charger, but when I need them they work. We recently went through a big flood, and I needed emergency light to perform first response work in dark buildings. What did I grab in the heat of the moment, two of these Magchargers, because My surefire was off for warranty repair...
> 
> My experience during that emergency, was that even though they were incandesant, they still had long battery life and were plenty bright. Also even though they were larger than my other light I found that that was a bonus and not a handicap because when you're standing in water up to your waist and trying to use a flashlight it helps for it to be easy to hold onto. Had I been able to locate my headlamp that would've been even better but I couldn't find it at the time. Having these flashlights in a location where they never move turned out to be the best thing because they're always there when you need them. If these had been the LED Version the battery might still be going 
> 
> ...



The Mag Chargers were built to a higher standard. They were competing with Kel Light for the LEO market, and I knew several officers with one or the other of those brands. Kel Light eventually merged with Streamlight, which is still huge in the LEO market.


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## Kd5jha (May 20, 2017)

The most common failing in flashlights,even great ones is always the same across the board. Dead batteries... That is why I practice a concept from firearms carry known as the "New York Reload"... I always carry two lights minimum, sometimes a third on my keychain. Both my primary lights are 18650/CR123 and my keychain lights are alkaline primary cell (one is AAA one AA).

I feel the same way about pocket knives, pens, etc. if it's not cumbersome two is always better. 

One challange i would would make is, are their any U.S. Based emitter manufactures to supply LED's to the marketplace? If not then the best you will ever do is to have one that is assembled here from domestic and foreign parts ...

As to lights I like (have owned) Surefire (6px pro, Peacekeeper),Streamlight (Stinger,Strion,Litebox,and ProTac(last one is engineered in U.S. And produced overseas),Maratac (don't know country of manufacture but countycom us US Based), I've had a couple of decent coast lights (I'm sure there made overseas, but again that's a Portland Oregon based company division of Leatherman) some of their stuff is junk though. At least they warranty for life. Maglight's upper end rechargeable MagCharger line is good and has good runtime. 

Its easier to to rely on a cheaper light if you have more than one. Especially with a four pack of 18650's in your daypack for extra burn time. 

---------------


k3751 said:


> I've used Surefire and Streamlights for about fifteen years, Malkoff for over five, and HDS for about 3. Never used an Elzetta, but I'd like to add one (some?) to the collection. Of those four, Surefire is the only one that has never failed for me. Streamlight and Malkoff made it right (and then some, with Malkoff) and my HDS was remedied with a battery change. I trust all four, but if I had to pick just one, it'd be Surefire. "trust your life to" in my opinion has nothing to do with beam quality or customer service, but rather reliability and, to a lesser extent, UI.


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## Ozythemandias (May 20, 2017)

Kd5jha said:


> The most common failing in flashlights,even great ones is always the same across the board. Dead batteries... That is why I practice a concept from firearms carry known as the "New York Reload"... I always carry two lights minimum, sometimes a third on my keychain.



Great way of putting it. I came to this practice when I realized that some cr123 lights are basically the same size as a keychain cell carrier, might as well carry the cell in a spare light.


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## Kd5jha (May 20, 2017)

That is what I was told by my wholesale supplier. We buy batteries in bulk (cr123,aa,aaa,9v) and I was told only Panasonic makes lithium cells stateside. Several manufacturers are still making alkalines stateside (Duracell,Energizer,Rayovac for sure probably also Panasonic as well.)

for primary cells I have not been able to beat interstate battery. Great performance and I get great bulk pricing. Might get slightly better run time from a Panasonic but at 4x cost.

-------------


Rob Babcock said:


> It's my understanding that Panasonic is the only maker of CR123a batteries in the US. All the batteries they make might not identical but I'm 98.5% certain that SF batteries are manufactured by Panasonic. SF does not make batteries and never has so far as I know. The only SF thing about them is the red label, of that I'm pretty confident.


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## cp2315 (May 23, 2017)

I voted for surefire. Not exactly sure which one I trust the best (explained later). So I went with which brand I own most lights. I have 7 surefire, two elzetta, one malkoff MD2 and a few drop ins, and one HDS 170 Nichia tac rotary.

My all time favorite is a bored surefire 6P sporting a PFlexPro drop in and McClicky. I also love the surefire G2/G2X line. G2 with a Malkoff M61NL feels great in hand and is reliable and dead simple. G2X Pro is my favorite surefire light and I even bought a second one in case I lose one and cannot get a replacement. I do not enjoy E2DL or fury as much.

My newest acquired is an elzetta hi/lo tailcap with a malkoff M61N and I love it too. Not very impressed with Bravo + AVS head

Malkoff MD2 is not my favorite either for two reasons: lack of grip, shrouded tailcap. Otherwise it will be a great light for me,

My only HDS is pretty good in everything. I just don't understand why I never want to really use it as much as other favorite lights.


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## Ozythemandias (May 23, 2017)

cp2315 said:


> My only HDS is pretty good in everything. I just don't understand why I never want to really use it as much as other favorite lights.



Well, if you ever want to sell it let me know


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## Lateck (May 23, 2017)

I have not even heard of 3 of the 5. Out side of the upper end posts here on this board.
Surefire and Streamlight available in my area. Although limited.
So the company I would vote for is Maglite. I have them, can afford them and have worked with them.
So, yes, I have depended on them.

Lateck,


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## Modernflame (May 23, 2017)

cp2315 said:


> My newest acquired is an elzetta hi/lo tailcap with a malkoff M61N and I love it too. Not very impressed with Bravo + AVS head



If you don't mind my asking, what was it you found lacking in the Bravo + AVS?


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## Fairplayinc (May 23, 2017)

Surefire has been my go-to for a long time. Never let me down.


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## cp2315 (May 23, 2017)

I am a thrower person. The beam is really not to my like. A large spot with a smaller square-ish hot spot in the center, and the hot spot is not much more intense.


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## Modernflame (May 24, 2017)

cp2315 said:


> I am a thrower person. The beam is really not to my like. A large spot with a smaller square-ish hot spot in the center, and the hot spot is not much more intense.



I understand this. At first, I was disappointed with my Bravo AVS for the same reason. I've learned to appreciate it, but I still wish that Elzetta would develop an alternative optic that would increase throw.


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## cp2315 (May 24, 2017)

Exactly, such a big optics should give decent throw if designed in the sameway as those in for example surefire E2D. imagine 600-900 lumens in a not-too-big beam with minimal spill.



Modernflame said:


> I understand this. At first, I was disappointed with my Bravo AVS for the same reason. I've learned to appreciate it, but I still wish that Elzetta would develop an alternative optic that would increase throw.


----------



## BugoutBoys (May 24, 2017)

cp2315 said:


> Exactly, such a big optics should give decent throw if designed in the sameway as those in for example surefire E2D. imagine 600-900 lumens in a not-too-big beam with minimal spill.


That would be INCREDIBLE for shooters especially


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## jabe1 (May 24, 2017)

Peak should definitely be on this list.
I trust their lights more than my Surefires, primarily due to the simplicity and potted electronics.


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## MX421 (May 24, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Best is oh-so subjective.
> 
> Quality? Well they're all quite good.


I agree, 

I was torn between Surefire, Malkoff and Elzetta. Went with Elzetta because i really like my Bravo and the fact that it is somewhat modular. On the other hand, i like my Surefires (and other P60 hosts) because they have drop-in flexibility that opens up more than just the Malkoff drop-ins.


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## INFRNL (May 24, 2017)

Can i make 3 votes?
My choices are Malkoff, Elzetta, HDS In no particular order.

Can't choose just one because all 3 can fit different niche's, but all 3 are very exceptional devices


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## Modernflame (May 25, 2017)

MX421 said:


> I agree,
> 
> I was torn between Surefire, Malkoff and Elzetta. Went with Elzetta because i really like my Bravo and the fact that it is somewhat modular. On the other hand, i like my Surefires (and other P60 hosts) because they have drop-in flexibility that opens up more than just the Malkoff drop-ins.



Elzetta definitely deserves a higher percentage of the vote than this poll reflects. I was also torn, but I went with Malkoff on account of greater variety and superior customer service.


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## tab665 (May 25, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> Elzetta definitely deserves a higher percentage of the vote than this poll reflects. I was also torn, but I went with Malkoff on account of greater variety and superior customer service.


I think the "modular crowd" is having to decide between their favorite child when it comes to malkoff/surefire/elzetta. do they vote for the host, drop-in, ect... I also think that's why HDS is such a close second to malkoff. look at it like a burger joint menu... malkoff is the bacon cheeseburger, elzetta is the Carolina burger, surefire is the spicy southewest burger.... HDS is the chicken sandwich.


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## Stainz (May 25, 2017)

My favorite burger is from a BBQ joint near my home. My favorite flashlights are LED versions from Surefire - I have more of them than all other makes combined.


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## Modernflame (May 25, 2017)

tab665 said:


> I think the "modular crowd" is having to decide between their favorite child when it comes to malkoff/surefire/elzetta. do they vote for the host, drop-in, ect... I also think that's why HDS is such a close second to malkoff. look at it like a burger joint menu... malkoff is the bacon cheeseburger, elzetta is the Carolina burger, surefire is the spicy southewest burger.... HDS is the chicken sandwich.



I think we've finally located the source of my acid indigestion...


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## glimmer (May 25, 2017)

I'll go with Malkoff! Love mine- that thing is built like a little tank. 

I've had good luck with Surefire too though. Great performing light.
Never tried an HDS. That's probably next for me.


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## ven (May 26, 2017)

How about a surefire (6p to name 1) with a malkoff drop in..............best of both worlds maybe


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## Modernflame (May 26, 2017)

ven said:


> How about a surefire (6p to name 1) with a malkoff drop in..............best of both worlds maybe



Maybe. Either way, the Surefire 6P is _the _flashlight that revolutionized the industry. Much respect.


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## ven (May 26, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> Maybe. Either way, the Surefire 6P is _the _flashlight that revolutionized the industry. Much respect.




Agree, in fact i have more 6p's than any other light! Got to love the flexibility


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## ZMZ67 (May 27, 2017)

ven said:


> Agree, in fact i have more 6p's than any other light! Got to love the flexibility



No doubt the 6P was revolutionary but SF has gone another direction and discontinued the 6P and all the related lights. Drop ins from other manufacturers are what keeps the 6P relevant and the 6P family of lights will be increasingly limited as time goes on. Malkoff is currently making complete lights that retain the modular aspects I want and offer outstanding quality so my vote stays with Malkoff.


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## ven (May 27, 2017)

Yes ZMZ, i dont have any new surefires and highly likely i wont. I like to pick my LED flavour over cooler get what your given types. Malkoff's N's are very nice!


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## Modernflame (May 27, 2017)

ven said:


> Yes ZMZ, i dont have any new surefires and highly likely i wont. I like to pick my LED flavour over cooler get what your given types. Malkoff's N's are very nice!



+1.

My thoughts exactly. SF could learn a lesson about modularity and beam tint from their other American competitors.


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## tab665 (May 27, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> +1.
> 
> My thoughts exactly. SF could learn a lesson about modularity and beam tint from their other American competitors.


more like they could learn it from their own old catalogs.


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## ZMZ67 (May 28, 2017)

tab665 said:


> more like they could learn it from their own old catalogs.





Modernflame said:


> +1.
> 
> My thoughts exactly. SF could learn a lesson about modularity and beam tint from their other American competitors.



For sure!


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## BugoutBoys (May 28, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> +1.
> 
> My thoughts exactly. SF could learn a lesson about modularity and beam tint from their other American competitors.


My take (as much as I love white wall hunting) is that SF specifically makes their flashlights for military, law-enforcement, and those who rely on their lights for safety and in tough conditions where their life may be on the line. Yes, the potted electronics sounds great. Same with modularity. But I feel that Malkoff has appealed to more of the flashaholic community than the military demographic. I'm not saying the flashlights aren't good. They sound like they're incredible! What I'm saying is that it seems to me that Surefire makes their flashlights to be a military grade flashlight rather than one that is appealing with tint and modification ability. if that makes sense


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## maglite mike (May 29, 2017)

BugoutBoys said:


> My take (as much as I love white wall hunting) is that SF specifically makes their flashlights for military, law-enforcement, and those who rely on their lights for safety and in tough conditions where their life may be on the line. Yes, the potted electronics sounds great. Same with modularity. But I feel that Malkoff has appealed to more of the flashaholic community than the military demographic. I'm not saying the flashlights aren't good. They sound like they're incredible! What I'm saying is that it seems to me that Surefire makes their flashlights to be a military grade flashlight rather than one that is appealing with tint and modification ability. if that makes sense



But it says right on the malkoff website " if you are a white wall hunter than this light is not for you "


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## Modernflame (May 29, 2017)

BugoutBoys said:


> My take (as much as I love white wall hunting) is that SF specifically makes their flashlights for military, law-enforcement, and those who rely on their lights for safety and in tough conditions where their life may be on the line. Yes, the potted electronics sounds great. Same with modularity. But I feel that Malkoff has appealed to more of the flashaholic community than the military demographic. I'm not saying the flashlights aren't good. They sound like they're incredible! What I'm saying is that it seems to me that Surefire makes their flashlights to be a military grade flashlight rather than one that is appealing with tint and modification ability. if that makes sense



I agree in part. While it's true that Gene Malkoff tailors some products to the fancy of the flashaholic community, I think all of these companies build lights with the military/LEO crowd in mind, especially Elzetta. Surefire is simply a giant in the industry, while the other manufacturers on this thread are small, comparatively young, and much less well known. Surefire undoubtedly makes good products, but I wonder how many people buy SF for durability, unaware that the likes of Malkoff, HDS, and Elzetta even exist.


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## ZMZ67 (May 29, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> I agree in part. While it's true that Gene Malkoff tailors some products to the fancy of the flashaholic community, I think all of these companies build lights with the military/LEO crowd in mind, especially Elzetta. Surefire is simply a giant in the industry, while the other manufacturers on this thread are small, comparatively young, and much less well known. Surefire undoubtedly makes good products, but I wonder how many people buy SF for durability, unaware that the likes of Malkoff, HDS, and Elzetta even exist.



I think your right,many people are probably not aware of Malkoff,ELzetta and HDS. Most buyers are likely going on a more familiar brand reputation leading them to SF or maybe Streamlight. It is unlikely that many consumers have the same level of information as most of us on this forum and are looking at mfc. specs without the same insight. Not saying that current SF lights are necessarily bad but they are just missing some of the aspects they once had.


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## bykfixer (May 29, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> I agree in part. While it's true that Gene Malkoff tailors some products to the fancy of the flashaholic community, I think all of these companies build lights with the military/LEO crowd in mind, especially Elzetta. Surefire is simply a giant in the industry, while the other manufacturers on this thread are small, comparatively young, and much less well known. Surefire undoubtedly makes good products, but I wonder how many people buy SF for durability, unaware that the likes of Malkoff, HDS, and Elzetta even exist.


Gene strarted out to build flashlights for police. Hence the round, easy to deploy shapes... well not just police but police style lights that also come in handy on the farm, at work, or lots of other tasks.
The flashaholic community of long ago helped him in that role. 
He was a forward thinker (and still is for that matter) and with time he has been able to eek out a living crafting his wares a few at a time. CPF probably plays a role in sales too, but there are probably enough Malkoff Devices out there in homes, police cars, and rescue squads being talked about where the business is doing pretty good. 
Bravo! 



ZMZ67 said:


> I think your right,many people are probably not aware of Malkoff,ELzetta and HDS. Most buyers are likely going on a more familiar brand reputation leading them to SF or maybe Streamlight. It is unlikely that many consumers have the same level of information as most of us on this forum and are looking at mfc. specs without the same insight. Not saying that current SF lights are necessarily bad but they are just missing some of the aspects they once had.



Police supply stores are loaded with Streamlights these days. Those lights have become a reputable lighting tool for those on a budget. They have an expanding market base due to their reputation as 'better than a D size Mag' and when it really comes down to it their vast selection is part of the reason. Trouble is... most of the 'budget' lights are made overseas. It was a strategy developed a few years ago to hold off competition in police supply stores by up n coming companies touting the latest n greatest output for a lot less money than a stale old Streamlight. 

I think SureFire is still feeding an older market that is expanding somewhat. Like Maglite they tend to change slowly so as to keep their current reputation intact with their market. 

As a flashaholic I tend to watch trends among the average Joe to get a feel for what appeals to the silent crowd. Many know of Elzetta, HDS, Malkoff, SureFire and Maglite. Yet they tend to frequent big box stores and gladly do their part to keep American business going by buying Maglite products. They tend to think of the ones we tout here as products out of their reach. Partly in terms of price and partly in terms of (lack of) reputation. They don't care one iota about nichia 219 b, c or z... moonlight, fire fly mode or sub-lumens... they want a flashlight that works when they want/need it when there's a fox in the henhouse, the baby is crying at 2am, or there's a screw dropped into the engine bay of their Jeep they can't find. 

Over the last couple of years I have bought and gifted numerous "good" flashlights and the recipients have all reacted the same. The Maglite, Rayovac, Streamlight and Coast all get used. The SureFires, Malkoffs, and Elzettas gifted are all stashed like I gave them a gold plated Colt revolver from 1899. 
I currently do not own any HDS lights. Great lights, just not for me.


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## Modernflame (May 29, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> He was a forward thinker (and still is for that matter) and with time he has been able to eek out a living crafting his wares a few at a time. CPF probably plays a role in sales too, but there are probably enough Malkoff Devices out there in homes, police cars, and rescue squads being talked about where the business is doing pretty good.
> Bravo!



I discovered Malkoff Devices only because I ran serendipitously across the Malkoff Junkie thread on this forum while researching something else. Since then, I'm aware that my own posts have sold other Malkoff lights. For me, the smallness of Gene's enterprise (Alabama pun!) is a selling point. I don't think his quality control and customer service can be replicated by larger company.


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## bykfixer (May 29, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> I agree in part. While it's true that Gene Malkoff tailors some products to the fancy of the flashaholic community, I think all of these companies build lights with the military/LEO crowd in mind, especially Elzetta. Surefire is simply a giant in the industry, while the other manufacturers on this thread are small, comparatively young, and much less well known. Surefire undoubtedly makes good products, but I wonder how many people buy SF for durability, unaware that the likes of Malkoff, HDS, and Elzetta even exist.



^^ Agreed.

CPF was where I discovered SureFire, HDS (various), Elzetta (Elzetta best kept secret thread), and the Malkoff drop in's kept showing up all over the place so I put a WLL in a 6P. That led to trying the MD2 hi/lo. And another, then another. Soon I had at least 1 of each available M31 and M61. Later a Mag drop in. Elzetta lights were also added. My colleagues always marvel at them but sticker shock shys them away. So I gave away a few and to my knowledge none are being used, but stashed away as family heirlooms or something. I keep saying "use 'em man, they're going to hold up to anything and everything you throw at them"... to which I hear "too nice to scratch up" or "remember, I'm a warranty void-r".... 
I don't dare give them a McGizmo. lol


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## Modernflame (May 29, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> ^^ Agreed.
> 
> CPF was where I discovered SureFire, HDS (various), Elzetta (Elzetta best kept secret thread), and the Malkoff drop in's kept showing up all over the place so I put a WLL in a 6P. That led to trying the MD2 hi/lo. And another, then another. Soon I had at least 1 of each available M31 and M61. Later a Mag drop in. Elzetta lights were also added. My colleagues always marvel at them but sticker shock shys them away. So I gave away a few and to my knowledge none are being used, but stashed away as family heirlooms or something. I keep saying "use 'em man, they're going to hold up to anything and everything you throw at them"... to which I hear "too nice to scratch up" or "remember, I'm a warranty void-r"....
> I don't dare give them a McGizmo. lol



I once considered giving away an Elzetta AVS. That's how I ended up with my second Elzetta AVS...


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## jellydonut (May 29, 2017)

Surefire lost me a while ago. I still enjoy their older lights.

Malkoff is the manufacturer that has stood the test of time without getting lost in the jungle of computers and blinkenlights. Pretty much the only manufacturer I'd actively like to buy new lights from these days.


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