# How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ? Yours ??



## TooManyGizmos (Mar 18, 2006)

I don't think many battery chargers are UL listed/safety approved.

Maybe this is something we should start paying more attention to for safety reasons. 
Is your charger UL rated ? Wouldn't you want it to be ?

I have seen some with the CE letters on the label which I think is a certification code used overseas. The UL symbol is used for certification in the U.S.A. of electronic products and I believe it is a little more stringent than the CE certification standards. Since we demand this higher safety standard on our toasters and microwave ovens - it's about time we started expecting it on our chargers as a precaution.

It was hazardous enough when we were using chargers for NiCd and NiMh chemistries - but now - the stakes are getting higher with these newer Li-Ion chemistries. Lithium Ion batteries seem to be rather unforgiving if not charged on a charger that does it right. They can vent with hot gasses and flames like a small rocket engine and even explode if battery manufacturer instructions are not pretty closely followed while recharging.

Since rechargeable Lithium Ion batteries are so potentially volitile , I believe the manufacturers of the chargers shoud be required to get a UL approval before marketing their chargers to the public. I know it would make the prices higher in the beginning - but safe chargers are important. 


It's time for all of us to check our chargers for the UL approved symbol . Some will say CE , but it's better if it says CE/UL on the label . Do any of them have it ? Go check yours - you really should know where you stand on safety.


I have 3 chargers for NiCd/NiMh - and needing to buy another for Li-Ion use . I am looking for a Li Ion charger with UL rating.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Of the 3 that I have now - 2 have the UL rating :

CCrane Quickcharger KC-983 ....... no rating

MAHA MH - C808M ..................... CE/UL rating
 
AmondoTech Titanium TG-2800 ... CE/UL rating
_________________________________________________


 Can we start a list here on this thread of chargers ?

Both types of chargers - NiCd/NiMh and Li-Ion . All prices .



If you have a charger that has the UL Approved label - 

 Please post it in this thread so we all know the best ones to buy . It's time to think safe .



Thank you for your time & input.


P.S. : This one's for you SilverFox - thanks for the wake-up call .
.


----------



## Anders (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*

MAHA MH - C808M has the CE/UL rating look at the AC Adapter*.
*I also have CCrane Quickcharger and here in sweden we have the CE mark on it.
Vanson BC-1HU *CE certified*.
Vanson V-600 *CE certified*.
Konnoc KCR-0328 *CE certified.

DSD charger is not certified.


"*There is no "shall" in the US. CE is a European Union legislative requirement. UL does not hold water in the EU. In the US individual state or local gov'ts have requirement, usually based on NEC or UL standards."

"The UL standards for many CE marked products are harmonized with the IEC standards in the EU. If the product is CE marked, It probably will meet the UL requirements. CE is not recognized by US local agencies. They will want a UL label." http://elsmar.com/Forums/archive/index.php/t-7148.html
* 
Anders
*


----------



## jeffb (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*

There are UL"listings" and UL "certifications";
the following paragraphs are accurate, in my opinion.
You are not necessarily getting a "safe" product with a UL or CE marking...............it may have been tested to a "standard". The LaCrosse BC-900 is UL and CE marked..read about it's "safety" in other threads. I have a Triton that is CE marked that I use RATHER than the UL marked BC-900, due to safety concerns, mentioned by our users. CE can be obtained in order to sell in Europe, there is a "process", not necessarily "safety" tested, per my customers.

LINK

The 'wall wart" is the power supply component marked in the BC-900; the Triton needs a Power supply.
I would venture that for most chargers, that is the norm.............the Power Supply is tested and marked; the actual "Charging circuitry" remains untested and as we know is designed with different charging parameters. (delta v, etc)

Just my opinions and one culled that I believe.

jeffb


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*

.
Thank You Anders....for your reply ,

I just looked at my MAHA 808m - the power supply does have UL - but the charger unit where the batteries go - only has CE on it. I would prefer both parts say UL - since the battery holder has circuitry in it also.

UL may not hold water in the UE - but I do think it holds water in the U.S.A. - for most buyers.

My Ccrane 7-years old , has no rating.

And "There is no "shall" in the US" - I don't understand your meaning.

thanks.

.


----------



## Cliffnopus (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*

This is what I do for a living. I manage a group of Product Safety Engineers (and environmental) and have been one for longer than I care to remember. 

There is no UL "Certification" there is only "UL Listing" and "UL Recognition". UL Listing is done for an end product, UL Recognition is done for components. A component having UL Recognition is by itself OK but place it in an assembly of other parts and that's a different matter. The final assembly must have UL Listing or all bets are off and you don't know what you're getting.

The CE mark for European products is a different animal but similar, depending on the product (like in IT, my industry) it may be the same standard with minor exceptions. I personally would not have any issues with a product that only carries a CE mark....unless the product comes from China. I don't say that to be aggravating but 30 or so years in this industry has shown me that _many times_ a Chinese copy is just that, everything is copied right down to the Regulatory Agency marking. They never tste the product just place the marking as if they did.

So, it's a buyer beware sort of thing. Sorry for the long boring post.

Cliff


----------



## jeffb (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*

Thanks for the clarification regarding "listing". My error.

I believe that reading SilverFox "sticky" regarding chargers
is a great resource if buying a new one. 

"sticky"

jeffb


----------



## willchueh (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*

Two UL standards (depending on configuration of chargers) can apply:

UL 1310
UL 60950

The second one focuses on information technology equipment (whereas the 1310 is a broader, more strict requirement). Typically battery-specific lithium ion chargers for digital cameras/camcorder use this standard.

All Maha chargers sold in North America carry UL and cUL (Canadian) mark tested under either standard. There are two ways to submit the chargers for testing. One is to submit just the AC portion (for chargers with external AC adapter, this will just be the adapter; for chargers with integrated AC, it will be the whole charger of course). The other method is to submit the whole charger system (adapter + charger, if they are separate). Generally speaking, UL will not list a DC charger by itself as it is not explicitly covered in the scope of the two standards mentioned. 

Here is a brief summary on Maha chargers sold in North America: 

Charger+Adapter System Certification (UL logo printed on charger & adapter): 
- MH-C204F/GT Series: UL 1310
- MH-C401FS Series: UL 1310

Charger Certification: (UL logo printed on charger):
- MH-C204W: UL 60950
- MH-C801D: UL 1310
- MH-C808M: UL 1310
(Note, for 801/808, the "AC Adapter" is more than just an AC adapter so it is considered as a charger). 

Adapter Certification (UL logo printed on adapter)
- MH-C1090F: UL 1310
- MH-C490F: UL 1310

Many of our international models (like the MH-C204W) also carry regional cerifications such as:
- European Safety Mark (typically GS)
- Australian Safety Mark (typically RCM)
- Singapore Safety Mark (PSB)
- Argentina S-Mark
- CE 
- Korean eK Mark
- China CCC
- Mexico NOM
- Japan PSE Mark


cheers,

William


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*

.
Thanks everyone for all the valuable information. .

This UL mark is more complicated than I first thought.


I do think it's wise to be aware of the ratings on our chargers. Especially be more carefull of the ones with no rating.

At least the UL and CE symbols give us some standard of testing to look for in our buying decisions. If a charger is without these important symbols - you should wonder why - and use it with caution / or not even buy it .

If it were not for these safety ratings and testing standards - we would all still be getting electrocuted by our electric drills.

Be safe out there .


 Lets keep the list going of commonly used chargers and their rating symbol - if any. .

.


----------



## parnass (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*

The Chinese-made AC wall wart power supply furnished with my Inova T4 rechargeable flashlight is UL Listed and bears 3 other marks, including CE, LPS, and CCC.

The wall wart may be detached from the Inova charging cradle which holds the T4 flashlight. The cradle looks to be made in USA, but bears no standards markings.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*

The UL marking is usually required for things that connects to the wall.

Many manufacturers go with the route of buying UL approved wall-warts to save cost in UL certification process.


----------



## willchueh (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*

As a rule of thumb, *NEVER* buy a charger with built-in power supply that does not have UL listing. UL has strict requirement regarding safety distances, fire hazard, and operator safety. Chargers built to UL standard is more expensive, but necessary to assure safety.

Similarly, don't buy a charger that has an AC adapter without UL listing. 

However, also beware that now a days there are a lot of fraudulent UL logos. After all, it is pretty simple to print it on. 

William


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*

.
In post #2 , CPF'er "Anders" in Sweden , reported that the DSD chargers are not certified. I am assuming he means it does not have either CE or UL approval. 

There is a TL-100 Li-Ion charger that looks like the DSD charger and seems to have the same features.

******************************************************
 The TL-100 is available thru Tinergy / All-battery.com which is located in California,U.S.A. - They confirmed to me thru E-mail that their TL-100 charger* is *UL approved. ( Edit required )

*Correction EDIT : . > Tinergy/All-battery.com incorrectly told me in E-mail that the TL-100 was UL-listed. As a result - I ordered it from them - Now that I have it in hand , I can report that NO PART of it shows "UL-listing".There is NO -" CE " rating either . It HAS....................... NO rating.
end of edit by TMG, 4/6/2006 , 5:45 pm .
* 
 ******************************************************


The TL-100 is also available thru batteryjunction.com and they confirmed in E-mail that their version is only *CE* rated and did not have the UL approval symbol.


Just something to think about .................... and be safe

TMG 
 .


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*

.
The amondotech.com / Titanium , TG-3000 / 2-bay NiMh/NiCd charger

Is - CE/UL listed

It charges - AA , AAA , C , D and 9v. NiMh/NiCd batteries.


.


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*

.
I received a DSD Li-Ion charger. I can now report that it DOES *NOT *have a "UL-Listed" sticker or mark on any part of it . 

It has NO rating on it at all .


.


----------



## Brighteyez (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*

Is the wall-wart intended for use in North America? A lot of the AC adapters that I've seen for the DSD chargers seem to have the type C 2-pin plug that is common on the European continent along with a 2 blade adapter for North American/Japan AC outlets. If the adapter was never intended for use in North America, there would be no reason to seek a UL mark of any kind.

UL does not have anything to do with low-voltage DC devices, so you shouldn't expect to find anything on the charger itself.



TooManyGizmos said:


> .
> I received a DSD Li-Ion charger. I can now report that it DOES *NOT *have a "UL-Listed" sticker or mark on any part of it .
> 
> It has NO rating on it at all .
> ...


----------



## Morelite (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*



Brighteyez said:


> UL does not have anything to do with low-voltage DC devices, so you shouldn't expect to find anything on the charger itself.


 
True, I agree
Just look at your cell phone for instance. Most of those are now li-ion and the charging circuit is in the phone. Your cell phones don't have a UL stamp, the battery may have a CE certification. The wall-wart is the only component that connects to and uses line power (110 AC or above) and thus it should have a CE and/or UL stamp. If you are really worried about using a non UL approved device than make sure you only plug it into circuit that is on an Arch-Fault breaker (not to be confused with a GFI circuit, that will do nothing unless you drop it in water)


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*

.
Well................I'm just trying to not end up with a hazardous charger that was built with no safety standards and improper internal protection circuits and then imported into the U.S.A. without being examined and tested by some organization set up for the purpose of protecting us from faulty and hazardous goods .

I don't have the electronics knowledge or testing apparatus needed - so I have to rely on someone smarter than me to try and maintain some degree of safety standard we can all LIVE with and not get burned up... ..thats all.


I'm hoping for more * UL- Listings* on our chargers so we don't wind up in the " burn-unit " for an extended stay .


.


----------



## HarryN (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*

I purchased a DSD charger (and as stated, the charger does not have an agency rating). Has anyone seen a 5.5 V, approx 350ma UL listed wal wart for it ? I am using it for RCR2, so I don't want a high charge rate. Slow is ok.


----------



## willchueh (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*

As an active participant in this industry, I would advise *not to buy any AC power supply without UL approval*. The only reason UL is skipped is for cost saving purpose. UL require certain type of flammability rating on PCB and plastic, structural integrity, safety distances, safety interlocks, etc. They can make a product much more costly to manufacture.

Remember, a CE is a "self-declared" certification with no specific issuing body. Therefore CE mark does not come close to the level of testing and regulation by UL. In practice, a manufacturer can put the CE logo on their product with no testing whatsoever. On the otherhand, the use of UL logo must be authorized and comes with a listing number.

William


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*

.

By the way......Brighteyesz and Morelite :


I have a recently purchased "Skil-ixo" Lithium Ion powered Palm drill with one 3.6v Li-Ion battery in it . Made in *China* for Bosch tool corp.

It came with a 7.0v / 250 ma charger . *( I'd call that a low voltage DC device ) *


Both the charger base and the drill itself have the " UL - Listed " round circle symbol on them .

I wonder why ?


TL-100 chargers (DSD look-alike) are being sold here in the U.S.A. by U.S. companys which have no UL-rating - actually no rating at all.

I would prefer that they did . I wonder why ?


UL helps me sleep better .:sleepy:



.


----------



## Morelite (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*

TMG, I understand your concern and was not trying to be a smartass about it. I only ment that you will not see to many of these low voltage DC devices with the approval, why I don't know. I too expect to see it on all devices that connect to line power. It may be that the wal-wart that has a UL rating may have the needed protection built into it and they don't feel the need to get a UL approval for the secondary device that it powers. I have looked around the house at different wal-wart powered devices and have found that most only have a CE rating on them, this includes; camara docking station/charger, cell phone, printer, scanner, cordless phone bases, cable modem, wireless router. The only ones I found with a UL on both the wal-wart and the device where the laptops, and the video cam.
I understand the concern may be greater with the use of Li-ion batteries, but then do the batteries themselves need to be UL approved, after all they can be just as bad as the charger or the device using them. 
Just my thoughts, and I don't mean to sound rude.


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*

.

Thats O.K. .....Morelite ......I'm not offended .


I'm just trying to help out around here and raise the awareness bar . .


.


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*

.

Oh......and by the way again .....Morelite :
_____________________________________________
You asked :
I understand the concern may be greater with the use of Li-ion batteries, but then do the batteries themselves need to be UL approved, after all they can be just as bad as the charger or the device using them. 
_____________________________________________

I actually just happened to notice , on the silver label on batt's from AW (ICR123 750ma) there are very tiny CE and UL symbols on the label of the battery itself . 


WOW......just as u recommended......

u asked for it - he provided



.


----------



## MrAl (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*

Hi there,


Let me get out my paintbrush so i can get my home designed chargers
UL approved  I think i know how to paint that sign.

Actually, if it's run off of a wall wart (and mine all are) they dont need
UL approval.


Take care,
Al


----------



## Cliffnopus (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*



MrAl said:


> Hi there,
> 
> 
> Let me get out my paintbrush so i can get my home designed chargers
> ...


But the "wall wart" _does_ have to have "approval" (check the ones associated with your PC's and note the Regulatory "marks"). The National Electrical Code (NEC) states that anything that connects to the AC mains _MUST_ have approval by a Nationally Recognized Test Lab (NRTL), of which UL is only one, theer are several. The DSD charger, of which I also have one, does not have any approvals at all. I use mine, but I never run it overnight or without at least casual monitoring and I run it on a ceramic tiled surface....just in case.

Cliff


----------



## HarryN (Apr 7, 2006)

I went to radio shack last night and found low current / nominal 300ma chargers for 3, 4.5, 6, 7.x, and 9 volts, but not 5.5 v like the DSD charger uses. They also had a mult voltage supply - with the same settings. All of them were around $ 20 each.

Any suggestions for a UL / CE / CSA (any of them are ok with me) wal wart ?


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Apr 7, 2006)

.

Hello HarryN :

The Nokia ACP-12U (800ma output) that I got as an option from AW when I got his DSD .....does have* UL* symbol stamped into the plastic of this power supply .

CAUTION : you can *not* use it when you're charging cells rated less than 800 mAh ........such as a RCR123 (750mAh). according to info from 'AW"'s sales thread.


----------



## MrAl (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers have UL Listed Symbol ?*


[ =Cliffnopus]But the "wall wart" _does_ have to have "approval" (check the ones associated with your PC's and note the Regulatory "marks"). The National Electrical Code (NEC) states that anything that connects to the AC mains _MUST_ have approval by a Nationally Recognized Test Lab (NRTL), of which UL is only one, theer are several. The DSD charger, of which I also have one, does not have any approvals at all. I use mine, but I never run it overnight or without at least casual monitoring and I run it on a ceramic tiled surface....just in case.

Cliff[ ]



Hello again,


I didnt mean to imply that the wall wart *itself* didnt need to be
UL approved, i just meant that the charger didnt need it.

I like the ceramic tile surface testing idea...i might actually do this myself.
I almost ruined my counter top one time testing a partially bad switching
wall wart --> plugged it in and *poof* a resistor smoked completely spewing
out black soot that stained the pure white counter top! What a mess,
and lucky i was able to clean it up, but there is still some off color
spots that wont come off at all due to the short burst of high heat.
Too bad i didnt think of the tile thing.
Lucky for me the spots arent too noticeable.


Take care and thanks for the idea,
Al


----------



## Morelite (Apr 8, 2006)

Does anyone know what these other 2 symbols represent ?

One is a small square inside a larger square, the other in a house figure with a arrow pointing into it.

I would guess the second one means inside use only?


----------



## blahblahblah (May 2, 2006)

*Re: How many chargers are UL safety certified ?*



willchueh said:


> Two UL standards (depending on configuration of chargers) can apply:
> 
> UL 1310
> UL 60950
> ...



Some of the MAHA chargers were not found as listed when I searched the UL website. I was specifically lookinig for the 808m model.

Here's a link to the UL website. http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/index.htm


----------



## Anders (May 2, 2006)

Morelit: The doublesquare mean that the electricity details has a double isolation and they don't need a ground contact, they fit in both our wall sockets here in sweden.

I don't know if you have two different wall sockets in US but here we have.

I hope you understood my explanation

Sorry for my english.

(This explanation stood on a electricity site here in sweden, i hope it's the same for you in the US)

I don't have the answer to the other one. 

Anders


----------



## SilverFox (May 2, 2006)

Hello TooManyGizmos,

Checking on some of the chargers I have...

Energizer 15 minute is UL listed
V1EC-BC2HU (AmondoTech version of the Vanson BC1HU) is UL listed
TG-700 is UL listed
TPEC-TV4000 is UL listed
TG-3000 is UL listed
TG-1000 is UL listed on the box, but not on the unit itself
TG-200 is UL listed
Sanyo NC-MQH01U is UL listed
Schulze isl 6-330d /RS is CE listed only
SureFire CN411 is UL listed
Pila IBC is UL listed (this is the new Pila charger)
Pila BC2 is CE approved only (this is the old Pila charger)
PH-123A-A is UL listed
Nano NBC-A001 has a CCC mark on it, but no CE or UL
The original Jon Burley R-CR123 charger is UL listed
3.0V R-CR123 charger is UL listed (only for 3V R-CR123 cells)
TigerLight chargers are UL listed
Universal Smart Charger USC4.2-16.8 has a CE mark on it
X990 HID charger is UL listed
Wolf Eyes K500 has a CE mark on it

DragonSub has no markings on it (used with my Golden Dragin HID)

My other chargers have already been listed.

Tom


----------



## bp044 (May 2, 2006)

hello SilverFox; what is the difference between Vanson bc1hu and Amando Teck viec- bc2hu


----------



## SilverFox (May 2, 2006)

Hello Bp044,

The difference is that the AmondoTech unit comes with a 12V adapter, charges AA cells at 700 mA instead of 500 mA, and has a 14 hour shut off timer instead of 11.5.

Tom


----------



## bp044 (May 2, 2006)

SilverFox thank you for your informative responce.you are always right on !


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Jul 25, 2006)

.... SilverFox ,

Thank YOU for listing all that information on SO many chargers .

That may help a lot of folks on their buying decissions , I hope.


Due to all your testing - you have more chargers than anyone ! I appreciate you sharing with us !

Thanks for helping-out on this thread of info.


Regards ........ TooManyGizmos ..


----------



## snakebite (Jul 25, 2006)

too many china crap products have forged ul/ce/csa/vde/ect logos on them.
if its unusually cheap to buy and cheap looking/feeling/crudly made its likely dangerous junk.
had a customer who called me onsite to help deploy 150 pc's
they bought these goofy looking usb hubs for each.
i got halfway through the rollout when several users complained the hubs wouldnt see their usb drives.
long story short several of the wallwarts smoked,buzzed,and a few melted and caught fire.we immediatly collected all these hubs to send them back.
i opened a few wallwarts and found they were very shoddy inside and the main filter cap after the bridge was a 100mfd at 100 v.when they see 160-170 they were blowing up.
no fuse in there so the electrolyte caused unlimited arcing on the ac side.
the wallwarts had every logo imaginable on it.
all fake.if i were to inspect these i would have ordered the whole load to be destroyed and landfilled!


----------

