# 980nm >400mW laser pointer - Is it dangerous?



## Shiftlock (Dec 29, 2004)

I'm being a wise-***. I know it's dangerous. Along with my new shipment of PGL-III lasers from CNI, I ordered a special 980nm >400mW pointer. It's the size of a Leadlight. I just started this thread so that people can tell me how dangerous it is.


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## kalibear (Dec 29, 2004)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Please do tell us more! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## liteglow (Dec 29, 2004)

can u do a pot mod to it ? 
heh heh heh..


I guess 400mW is so dangerous that it shoud only be used at AREA 51 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## kongfuchicken (Dec 29, 2004)

400mW could be dangerous to your eyes even reflected off a partially reflective object. Plus, this far in the IR, there's a good chance you won't see anything of the radiation and could get irreversible damage just looking for the spot wondering why you can't see some red. 
I'd invest in protective googles with that and never use it without them on. Also, be sure that no one can be hurt while you use it.


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## thesurefire (Dec 29, 2004)

not only will it blind you, but 400 mW should set stuff on fire.


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## sharkeeper (Dec 29, 2004)

Not any more dangerous than the 100W CO2 I'm looking at with my one good eye. 

It's like asking if a .22 is more dangerous than a 300 fps bb gun. Along with the gun analogy, *all* lasers should be treated as such.

400 mW at 980 will be hardly visible and this laser really shouldn't be viewed in a closed space without spectacles. Seriously. That unit would make a nice long DX window mike, but a 400 mW diode in a pen housing is not a continuous duty device. I could use one of the 2W pumps but they are surprisingly visible at 808.

I want to make a rig that lets me aim the CO2 and use a 5mW green on the same bore for sighting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cheers!


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## The_LED_Museum (Dec 29, 2004)

400mW in the short infrared range is a high-level Class IIIb laser device - 100mW more and it becomes a Class IV laser device.
Figure you can start fires with this amount of collimated energy, if the material you're directing the beam at is highly to moderately-highly flammable, like very thin dark paper.

Definitely want to keep this laser away from the eyes. You won't see the beam until it's much, much too late.
Goggles for sure.


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## Shiftlock (Dec 30, 2004)

Okawing the way CNI rates things, when they say >400mW, it's probably in the range of 500mW-600mW. I bet it is a Class IV laser. And all in a package the size of a Leadlight. No safety keys or anything, just a little button to press like a pointer. Way too dangerous. Someone could come along and just press the buttton just to see what it does. With kids in the house, I don't want that around. I think I'll test it out a few times with my back turned and my eyes tightly closed, and then destroy it because it's to dangerous to even exist.


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## thesurefire (Dec 30, 2004)

Wouldnt it make more sense to sell it to a university or something?


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## kakcoo (Dec 30, 2004)

But what's the purpose with such laser? You can't see the dot so it wont do any good as a pointer. With nightvision of course, you could use it as a pointer for infiltration. It would be pretty handy when the enemy can't se the dot, but i guess you'r not some kind of sepcial force soldier or anything.

What would happen if you let the beam through the crytal which makes the infra red beam in a green laser pointer green?


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## LaserMod (Dec 30, 2004)

So, you can't see it anyway (or would you see a dim red dot)...as kakcoo said what the hell if any applications would it be used for...especially in a 'pointer' style case??? Sounds a stupid idea to me. The person who invented it should be shot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

High power IR is a very serious threat if suppose terrorists took to using them...


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## comozo (Dec 30, 2004)

Actually Class 4 lasers start at >500mw. In 2001 the standard governing the safety of laser products in Europe (EN) and Internationally (IEC), was substantially revised and the Classification system was overhauled. This resulted in the introduction of three new laser classes (1M, 2M and 3R) and the abolition of Class 3A. Below is a brief description of each of the current laser classes.

The 60825-1 standards apply equally to lasers and LEDs. In most places we have used the word "laser", but it can be replaced by "LED". Generally speaking LEDs would be in the lower Classes (1, 1M, 2, 2M, 3R), but very exceptionally may be Class 3B. At the time of writing we are not aware of any Class 4 LEDs*.

The phrase "eye-safe" is used below. Please note that "eye-safe" is applicable to the whole optical spectrum from 180nm to 1mm wavelength, not just in the retinal hazard range of 400nm to 1400nm. Outside the retinal hazard range there is potentially a hazard to the cornea. A wavelength outside the retinal hazard range is therefore not automatically eye-safe!

Class 1

This class is eye-safe under all operating conditions.

Class 1M

This class is safe for viewing directly with the naked eye, but may be hazardous to view with the aid of optical instruments. In general, the use of magnifying glasses increases the hazard from a widely-diverging beam (eg LEDs and bare laser diodes), and binoculars or telescopes increase the hazard from a wide, collimated beam (such as those used in open-beam telecommunications systems).

Radiation in classes 1 and 1M can be visible, invisible or both.

Class 2

These are visible lasers. This class is safe for accidental viewing under all operating conditions. However, it may not be safe for a person who deliberately stares into the laser beam for longer than 0.25 s, by overcoming their natural aversion response to the very bright light.

Class 2M

These are visible lasers. This class is safe for accidental viewing with the naked eye, as long as the natural aversion response is not overcome as with Class 2, but may be hazardous (even for accidental viewing) when viewed with the aid of optical instruments, as with class 1M.

Radiation in classes 2 and 2M is visible, but can also contain an invisible element, subject to certain conditions.

Classes 1M and 2M broadly replace the old class 3A under IEC and EN classification. Prior to the 2001 amendment there were also lasers which were Class 3B but were eye-safe when viewed without optical instruments. These lasers are Class 1M or 2M under the current Classification system.

Class 3R

Radiation in this class is considered low risk, but potentially hazardous. The class limit for 3R is 5x the applicable class limit for Class 1 (for invisible radiation) or class 2 (for visible radiation). Hence CW visible lasers emitting between 1 and 5 mW are normally Class 3R.
Visible class 3R is similar to class IIIA in the US regulations.

Class 3B

Radiation in this class is very likely to be dangerous. For a continuous wave laser the maximum output into the eye must not exceed 500mW. The radiation can be a hazard to the eye or skin. However, viewing of the diffuse reflection is safe.

Class 4

This is the highest class of laser radiation. Radiation in this class is very dangerous, and viewing of the diffuse reflection may be dangerous. Class 4 laser beams are capable of setting fire to materials onto which they are projected.

Any laser product of a given Class may contain 'embedded' lasers which are greater than the Class assigned to the product, but in these cases engineering controls (protective housings and interlocks) ensure that human access to radiation in excess of product Class is not possible. Notable examples of this are CD and DVD players which are Class 1 laser products while containing Class 3R or Class 3B lasers and laser printers which are Class 1 laser products but contain Class 4 embedded lasers.

Note:- for a product to be classified correctly, it must be tested at the maximum output accessible under reasonably foreseeable single-fault conditions (eg in the drive circuitry). A non-M class product must pass both Condition 1 and Condition 2 of Table 10 in IEC/EN 60825-1, and an M-class product (which by definition has failed either Condition 1 or 2) must pass the irradiance condition in the same table.

* Generally speaking lasers are point sources while LEDs are extended sources. Extended sources have higher power limits than point sources for a given laser Class. Therefore a visible LED emitting 10 mW may be Class 2, while a visible laser pointer of the same power would be Class 3B. NB Laser pointers above Class 2 are banned for sale to the public by trading standards.

CW Continuous Wave - i.e. not pulsed
Diffuse reflection the reflection of radiation from a matt surface such as a wall
Extended source having an apparent source size with angular subtense of greater than 1.5 mradian
Optical instruments binoculars, telescopes, microscopes, magnifying glasses (but not prescription glasses)
Point source having an apparent source size with angular subtense of less than 1.5 mradian

Copyright www.Lasermet.com 2004


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## comozo (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: 980nm >400mW laser - light detection device*

Laser light detection device for pilots. http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=16244


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## Spec (Dec 30, 2004)

you stated earlier that it will be "slightly visible", that is incorrect. It will be completely invisible as I have never met a person that could see past 900nM in pitch black.

I feel these are far more dangerous than visible lasers because you wont do the "damn thats bright" head jerk. You will just notice your vision fade away quickly or feel a small explosion in the back of your eye as it focuses almost half a watt down to a micron on the back of your eye...

Be real careful with this thing as I feel that its only practical application is a conversation piece.


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## slammin (Dec 30, 2004)

Are lasers with the power in the watts and megawatts still class 4, or is there a different class for those type of laser? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


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## PhotonWrangler (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: 980nm >400mW laser - light detection device*

[ QUOTE ]
*comozo said:*
Laser light detection device for pilots. http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=16244 

[/ QUOTE ]

_ A green light on the box means the system is functioning and everything is normal; yellow means a laser is pointed at them but is not an eye hazard; and red means they are being targeted by a laser that threatens their vision._

Um, shouldn't the red LED be accompanied by an audible warning? If you're being targeted by a dangerous laser, will you be able to SEE the red LED?


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## The_LED_Museum (Dec 31, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*slammin said:*
Are lasers with the power in the watts and megawatts still class 4, or is there a different class for those type of laser? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]
As far as I'm aware, all lasers above 500mW are CDRH (BRH) Class IV.
Doesn't matter if it's 659mW (milliwatts) or 659MW (megawatts). Still Class IV.

This information is more than 20 years old though, so if things are different now, please feel free to correct me.


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