# Cars, Man



## RBR

RBN's post lost proper placement and dating, appearing about 4 years before it should. It has been moved to the end of this thread.

The true OP, StarHalo, is quoted here, and is shown in it's original glory in post number 2.



> Post some cars, man..
> 
> 
> (and no, this does not belong in the Automotive _Lighting_ section)
> 
> Bugatti Veyron 16.4, when you need to get to 140mph in ten seconds, at the same moment you cross the quarter-mile line..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1969 Chevrolet COPO Camaro, 1 of 69 made, the lord king almighty of Camaros, with the same straight-line performance numbers as the current 426hp Camaro SS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caterham 7 Superlight R500, barely four pounds per horsepower, not even a sport bike can keep up..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1984 Ferrari 288 GTO, how Italians build a hot rod; 0-80 in 6 seconds _in first gear_, and it's a five-speed..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2010 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, the return of the Ferrari-killer; 600+hp inside a whole lot of carbon fiber
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caparo T1, as close to F1 as can be made street legal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RUF Porsche eRUF, an electric-motor 911; you can really see the James Dean Spyder heritage once you remove all the air ducts from the nose..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weismann GT, it's German and has a V8, that's all I know since none of the info on it is in English..


----------



## StarHalo

Post some cars, man..


(and no, this does not belong in the Automotive _Lighting_ section)

Bugatti Veyron 16.4, when you need to get to 140mph in ten seconds, at the same moment you cross the quarter-mile line..






1969 Chevrolet COPO Camaro, 1 of 69 made, the lord king almighty of Camaros, with the same straight-line performance numbers as the current 426hp Camaro SS.






Caterham 7 Superlight R500, barely four pounds per horsepower, not even a sport bike can keep up..






1984 Ferrari 288 GTO, how Italians build a hot rod; 0-80 in 6 seconds _in first gear_, and it's a five-speed..






2010 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, the return of the Ferrari-killer; 600+hp inside a whole lot of carbon fiber






Caparo T1, as close to F1 as can be made street legal






RUF Porsche eRUF, an electric-motor 911; you can really see the James Dean Spyder heritage once you remove all the air ducts from the nose..






Weismann GT, it's German and has a V8, that's all I know since none of the info on it is in English..


----------



## Search

'03 and '04 Mustang Cobra hands down winner.


----------



## StarHalo

Search said:


> '03 and '04 Mustang Cobra hands down winner.



Well get a good pic and post it :thumbsup:


----------



## Burgess

Wow, cool photos !

:twothumbs


Looks like Bugatti Veyron now has a *Titanium *version.


_


----------



## Patriot

Great pictures. As a Ferrari fan I think it's neat that you included the very "off the wall" 288 GTO. It was and still is such an interesting car and very unrefined. I'll always remember the quote from a Car and Driver journalist from a track test way back in 1985. He said that "out of the slow corners the car felt like an animated cartoon machine that stretched out under acceleration and then snapped back to correct size just before pushing in the clutch to shift"...lol. It was quite the performer 25 years ago. I witnessed one sell live at the Barret Jackson Auction for 1.3M back when the Ferrari market was peaking in early 90's.


----------



## daimleramg

Ok so there is a new Canadian Supercar maker named Locus, they make this model with a choice of 2 engines. The lower model has 750HP and the upgraded model has 1300HP. Just like the Mclaren F1 the driver sits in the middle and the passengers sit to the left and right of the driver.


----------



## K A

I see your photos and counter you with this! 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/AndyThomason/Andy/SEMA 2009/SEMA2009pic52.jpg


----------



## StarHalo

Burgess said:


> Looks like Bugatti Veyron now has a *Titanium *version.



That's the Veyron Pur Sang model; the metal is merely bare aluminum, but the center panels are carbon fiber. With a price tag of $4.7 million (because it's not just some raggedy off-the-shelf Bugatti ), only five were made, and all five were sold out in the first day of release.



Patriot said:


> As a Ferrari fan I think it's neat that you included the very "off the wall" 288 GTO.



They were just warming up with the original GTO; a version with 250 more horsepower and its own unique body panels was available later, called the Evoluzione. It looks a little awkward now, but if you look closely, you can see the F40 starting to slowly "evolve":








daimleramg said:


> there is a new Canadian Supercar maker named Locus, Just like the Mclaren F1 the driver sits in the middle and the passengers sit to the left and right of the driver.



There are so many exotic cars and manufacturers now, there's always some new one popping up somewhere. I just hope they send a 1300hp model to Britain for The Stig :huh:

And since you brought up the F1, here's the race, track, and street versions at rest:


----------



## BIGLOU

The New $400,000 Lexus LF-A only 150 coming to USA. I hope I win the lotto.


----------



## Monocrom

K A said:


> I see your photos and counter you with this!  ...


 


It's the Spongebob Squarepants mobile. Someone was insane enough to do it. 

I LOVE IT!! :twothumbs


----------



## CaseyS

Deleted.


----------



## gsxrac

K A said:


> I see your photos and counter you with this!





Monocrom said:


> It's the Spongebob Squarepants mobile. Someone was insane enough to do it.
> 
> I LOVE IT!! :twothumbs



A lot of the drug dealers and pimps make these "theme cars" that are completly made after one product or show and they all have lift kits in order to fit their 24's and 26's. They also mostly have insanely loud obnoxious exhaust. We have "Big Red" "Mellow Yellow" "Family guy" "Trix" and about 15 others I cant remember at the moment lol. Although the spongebob car looks far better executed than most of the theme cars around here!!!


----------



## Kestrel

Well, here's something a little different:






A diesel-electric hybrid *station wagon* from Citroen, not on the market as of yet - still a concept car IIRC.

201 HP, 295 ft-lb of torque. Engine stats are not that noteworthy, but:

0-62 mph in 6.2 seconds
top speed 155 mph
36 miles per gallon!!! (not at 155 mph tho...)


----------



## LightWalker

Car of the near future?

http://therawfeed.com/pix/batsmart.jpg


----------



## Patriot

LightWalker said:


> Car of the near future?




Car of now. It's a Smart car with some batmobile stuff on it.


----------



## LightWalker

Patriot said:


> Car of now. It's a Smart car with some batmobile stuff on it.


 
It may be the car that we are forced to drive in the near future if certain people have their way.


----------



## Empath

LightWalker, your image has been converted to a link.

Please read section three of our rules regarding hotlinking.

Also, read this thread about posting images.

Remove the hotlinked image from your sigline. (Thank you)


----------



## Monocrom

Every Batmobile has been cool as Hell. Usually long, black, and often muscular. Someone turned their crappy Smart Car into a Batmobile??

That thing is an abomination. :thumbsdow


----------



## Mjolnir

Let's see...
I had to basically lie on the pavement to get this picture:





This of course if the Ferrari "Enzo Ferrari," most commonly referred to as just the "Enzo." It has a 651 HP naturally aspirated V12.

Starhalo, the picture with the 288 evoluzione in it that you had posted also has a jaguar XJ220 in the background. The XJ220 only has a 3.5 liter V6, but makes almost 550 horsepower.


----------



## LightWalker

When did Empath get a Porche? :laughing:

http://img.xcitefun.net/users/2009/09/116266,xcitefun-smart-car-porche-targa.jpg

Just kidding.


----------



## Stress_Test

How 'bout some photos of something us poor working schmucks can afford! 


This is my weapon of choice for cheap speed! 2007 Mustang GT


----------



## spud

Mjolnir said:


> Starhalo, the picture with the 288 evoluzione in it that you had posted also has a jaguar XJ220 in the background. The XJ220 only has a 3.5 liter V6, but makes almost 550 horsepower.



Here's a photograph of a XJ220 that I took earlier this year.


----------



## TONY M

Awesome cars!


spud said:


> Here's a photograph of a XJ220 that I took earlier this year.


Nice photo, I always loved that car and loved the metro 6R4 from where it got its engine even if it was a a strange choice. There still are a couple of 6R4s knocking around here and being raced in rallys.


----------



## LightCannon

Stress_Test said:


> How 'bout some photos of something us poor working schmucks can afford!
> 
> 
> This is my weapon of choice for cheap speed! 2007 Mustang GT



Cheap speed? Did someone say GTI? Or perhaps Mazdaspeed 3?


----------



## FRANKVZ

How about these?


----------



## Mjolnir

spud said:


> Here's a photograph of a XJ220 that I took earlier this year.



You took that yourself? Are you an automotive photographer or something? It seems like you would have to be leaning out of a car at highway speeds to get the angle in that picture.


----------



## LightWalker

I'm pretty sure I would get a speeding ticket in one of these.
http://www.rainbowskill.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/2007-lamborghini-murcielao-lp640-verscae.jpg


----------



## Mjolnir

A man who lives on my street has a Lamborghini Murcielago, but it is the original version, not the newer LP640. It is quite loud when it goes by though...


----------



## LightCannon

Mjolnir said:


> A man who lives on my street has a Lamborghini Murcielago, but it is the original version, not the newer LP640. It is quite loud when it goes by though...



There's a GT500, at least 2 Ferraris, at least 1 Lamborghini, an Aston Martin (I think it's a DB9,) at least 3 Lotus Exige/Elises, and 1 Tesla.

It's a little ridiculous.


----------



## Lite_me

I always thought this one was pretty cool. The 789 Chevy.


----------



## Monocrom

Chevy??

Looks like the last version of the Ford Thunderbird, with a [email protected]$$ face-lift.


----------



## Boy SureFire

HHmmmm my Packard can roll up in your hood, and bust a cap in your Chevy..... :nana::laughing:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4135878588/


----------



## spud

Mjolnir said:


> You took that yourself? Are you an automotive photographer or something? It seems like you would have to be leaning out of a car at highway speeds to get the angle in that picture.



Yes I'm a car photographer. Taken from another moving car, you don't need to be going fast 
maybe 30mph, dependant on the road surface shooting at about 1/15-1/40 second.
Here are a couple more examples.

C-Type






Aston DBS


----------



## StarHalo

Rice for Thanksgiving!

Subaru WRX STi






Nissan 350Z






Mazda RX-7






Nissan GTR


----------



## TONY M

Very nice spud. 

Where was the photo of the DBS taken?

Thanks.


----------



## spud

About a mile from where I live in Crickhowell, on Llangattock Mountain.
The road is the B4560 a favourite of motoring magazines in the UK.


----------



## spud

Gallardo Superleggera


----------



## Burgess

to Lite_me --


Yes, that Chevy 789 certainly* IS* quite amazing !


Thank you for sharing it with us.


Thank you to *everyone* contributing to this fine thread.

:wow::goodjob::kewlpics::thanks:
_


----------



## LEDobsession

Lots of new cars here with only a few classics. I still believe I was born a decade or two late. Here's a few pics from my Photography stuff. :thumbsup:

59 Chevy Apache Fleetside Pickup




70 Chevelle




My 68 Chevelle (in the restoration process)


----------



## Kestrel

LEDobsession said:


> 59 Chevy Apache Fleetside Pickup


Nice pic, thanks for posting that one. :huh:


----------



## StarHalo

2010 Porsche 911 Turbo 3.8, 0-60 in 3 seconds even (and LED daytime lights). Now even the Porsches are racing sport bikes..


----------



## addictedmatt

That's an awesome porsche, but the front end reminds me of the newer VW beetle.


----------



## bjn70

Are there any guidelines about what types of photos we post? This is my daily driver-
LS2 V8 engine, 400hp, 6-speed manual trans.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/bjd70/DSC_1521c.jpg


----------



## TONY M

addictedmatt said:


> That's an awesome porsche, but the front end reminds me of the newer VW beetle.


 Every time I see a 911 all I see is a VW Beetle. To me the 911 *IS *the modern day water cooled sporty Beetle, really just a steady evolution of what Ferdinand Porsche originally developed in the 1930s.


----------



## Ging

spud said:


> About a mile from where I live in Crickhowell, on Llangattock Mountain.
> The road is the B4560 a favourite of motoring magazines in the UK.



A beautiful part of the country, a friend of mine lives just outside Crick.


----------



## Onuris

My kid hauler, '08 Mercedes GL550 AMG- took these pics when it was new, kids have trashed it a bit since then!




























My weekend toy, 97 Porsche 993 Carrera 4s, last of the air-cooled 911s
















Here are some that I would love to own if I could ever afford or justify spending the cash for any of them

Obsidian CoupeR '67 Mustang











RCR Series 3 '69 Camaro
















Hennessey Venom 1000R
















TVR Sagaris












Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione












Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series











Ferrari F458


----------



## LEDobsession

Onuris said:


> Here are some that I would love to own if I could ever afford or justify spending the cash for any of them
> 
> Obsidian CoupeR '67 Mustang
> 
> 
> RCR Series 3 '69 Camaro
> 
> Hennessey Venom 1000R



Those are sweet!
Glad to see Im not the only one with a taste for American Muscle. :thumbsup:


----------



## buickid

Well no one said they had to be _fast_!
Heres a car/truck I love, the older Toyota Land Cruisers. Built like a tank, made to work. Third world countries love em!

This is a soft top 1973 FJ40 with a PTO winch, 3.9L I6, and a three on the floor.  Toyota advertising claimed "it cruises comfortably at 85MPH everyday on the freeway!" It might reach 85, but it would be neither comfortable nor cruising!


----------



## StarHalo

Speaking of not being fast, would you buy this car?











It's a Fiat 500, but will soon be sold in the US as the Chrysler 500..


----------



## gswitter

StarHalo said:


> Speaking of not being fast, would you buy this car?


You bet! But I like small cars...


----------



## 3000k




----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Speaking of not being fast, would you buy this car?


 
Sure I would! ... Hold on, I know I've got at least $2 in my pocket. My little niece is going to love driving that toy. She'll be a year old in a few months. Hope she doesn't outgrow it in a few weeks.


----------



## LEDobsession

3000k said:


>



Thank You!


----------



## spud




----------



## Monocrom

If I could own one classic car, would have to be a 1949 Mercury coupe ...


----------



## StarHalo

*How far we've come:* Seemingly mismatched drag racing

I've been marveling lately at this new horsepower revolution we're in the middle of, and how it in some ways dwarfs the first one; the muscle car age. For those who haven't been keeping score, let's put some old and new classics on a hypothetical drag strip built from test numbers/statistics and have at it..

First race:





*1969 Pontiac GTO "The Judge"* vs *2009 Toyota Camry V6*

The definitive muscle car versus the definitive family car. The Judge versus the desk clerk. Not much of a race here on first glance, just two good examples from two completely different genres of car. Solid Detroit Iron and Solid Japanese plastic.

They look even more disparate side-by-side on a track, and as the light goes green, the Judge builds up a just-right amount of wheelspin with a bit of smoke from the rear, as does the Camry with a bit of smoke from _the front_, and the Camry pulls ahead notably. The rest of the race is the Judge slowly catching up - including at the finish line. The GTO is rolling a full 5 mph faster than the Toyota, but is a tenth of a second behind. A couple hundred more feet might even things, but the Camry gets the win.

*Results* -(0-60/[email protected])
Camry - 5.8/[email protected]
Judge - 6.2/[email protected]

Maybe we just need a muscle car with a bigger engine..

Second race:





*1970 Buick GSX* vs *2009 Subaru WRX*

Talk about disparate, now we've got 455 cubic inches versus 150. 510 lb-ft of torque versus 244. The GSX represents a bygone horsepower era for Buick, and certainly looks the part, while the Subaru resembles a rental sedan with a "look-at-how-Fast-And-Furious-I-Am" hood scoop.

But it all goes upside-down on the track; the Buick's rear wheels spool up a perfect launch just in time to see the Subaru lean back on its haunches and rocket away without so much as chirping the tires. It would take a persistent GSX driver to continue at this point - the Subaru is so far ahead that it looks like an eleven second car. And with both competitors keeping the throttle buried, the Buick crosses the finish line a third of a second behind and one mph slower, a solid win for the "Rex".

*Results* -(0-60/[email protected])
WRX - 4.7/[email protected]
GSX - 6.5/[email protected]

Maybe the modern car entrant just needs a weight handicap..

Third race:





*1966 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 427* vs *2010 BMW X5M*

Well no example of modern cars would be complete without at least one SUV in there somewhere, and the Bimmer's 5,300lb curb weight gives one heck of an edge to the more than a ton lighter Vette. Plus the X5 is an automatic.

And it happens again; the Corvette driver is instantly treated to the view of the back end of a newer car pulling away without drama, but this time it's an SUV with a three-ton tow rating. The Stingray manages to match the BMW for speed farther down the track, but the big German box flies across the finish line a third of a second quicker. 

*Results* -(0-60/[email protected])
BMW - 4.0/[email protected]
Corvette - 5.4/[email protected]

Let's just skip to the big guns..

Fourth race:




*
1966 Shelby Cobra 427* vs *2010 Porsche Panamera*

The race car driver's race car versus ..a sedan? Trying to race 4400lbs of grand touring leather and electronic gizmos against the ultimate stripped-down barely-legal racer? The Cobra's 6lbs per horsepower essentially created the 0-100-0mph test, so no sedans should need apply..

Except for this particular Porsche with the unsightly hatchback, which is all the Cobra gets to see from the moment the light turns green. The Cobra driver must ride the fine line between too much wheelspin and not enough RPMs, carefully feathering the throttle and minding the lateral sliding. Meanwhile the Porsche driver is not so involved; the launch control feature plus a sequential semi-auto transmission means you just mash the accelerator for a perfect launch, and leave it there for perfect shifts. The Cobra driver expertly eases off the throttle just slightly between gear changes, matching revs seamlessly while slamming the heavy "lunk-thunk" shifter into each gear right on time. The Porsche driver reduces the climate control temperature a bit, sips a beverage, and searches the XM radio for some fitting, upbeat jazz tracks, maybe some Charlie Parker. And about then the Porsche sails past the finish line a full half second ahead of the Shelby, and still faster.
*
Results* -(0-60/[email protected])
Porsche - 3.3/[email protected]
Shelby - 4.3/[email protected]

So that's an idea of how far we've come. And this doesn't take into account the huge discrepancies if one of these cars gets into an accident, or gas mileage, or reliability, etc. It's quite an era for cars we're in..


----------



## Monocrom

Not just about speed and power. (Although those two are right up there).

It's also about style and cool... And attracting the ladies. 

Pull up to some fine ladies in a Buick GSX, and they can't help but walk over. "Hello ladies. Want to go for a ride?"

Try that in a more modern car. They'll think you're creepy. But in a classic, you're cool.


----------



## LightCannon

I do a little bit of amateur photography on the side...so here's one of mine.

Guess the cars!


----------



## RA40

This Lexus LS for me. 






A few from some of the guy's in the club:


----------



## StarHalo

Don't forget the RX..







A lot of the "crossovers" look a lot better dropped, it brings out that big hatchback look. A good example Porsche Cayenne:


----------



## GLOCK18

SEMA 2009


----------



## StarHalo

GLOCK18 said:


> SEMA 2009



Love the electric sled; I'd wager we'll be seeing a lot more superlight all-electric designs like that in the near future, thanks to how ridiculously simple and powerful the overall concept is..


----------



## StarHalo

Speaking of small cars: Introducing the 2011 *Aston Martin* Cygnet - yes, really, it's not a joke..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Speaking of small cars: Introducing the 2011 *Aston Martin* Cygnet - yes, really, it's not a joke...


 
I doubt James Bond will be driving around in that abomination any time soon. :green:


----------



## Burgess

to StarHalo --


Your post # 56 was truly *Priceless*.


Thank you for sharing it with us.


:wow::goodjob::kewlpics::thanks:
_


----------



## StarHalo

Exclusivity: Ferrari owners in good standing may be entitled to the $2.5 million FXX model, which upon purchase you do not take physical ownership of, but are allowed to see and drive only on special track days held by Ferrari; the car is stored and maintained by the manufacturer otherwise.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Exclusivity: Ferrari owners in good standing may be entitled to the $2.5 million FXX model, which upon purchase you do not take physical ownership of, but are allowed to see and drive only on special track days held by Ferrari; the car is stored and maintained by the manufacturer otherwise.


 
Well, the founder was such an obscene snob that he insulted one of his former customers to the point that Lamborghini came into existence. After receiving a bit of mild, constructive, criticism, he actually said to him that perhaps he wasn't good enough to drive a Ferrari.

And what does "good standing" mean?? Those who have previously purchased a Ferrari and have meekly put up with the snobbery?

Sure, pay $2,500,000 and not take possession of one's own property. Not even the founder of the company was *that *full of himself.


----------



## StarHalo

For regular folk: It's coming..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> For regular folk: It's coming..


 
Oh yeah. That's sweet. :twothumbs


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> And what does "good standing" mean??



It means you're not this guy:


----------



## Mjolnir

Monocrom said:


> Well, the founder was such an obscene snob that he insulted one of his former customers to the point that Lamborghini came into existence. After receiving a bit a mild, constructive, criticism, he actually said to him that perhaps he wasn't good enough to drive a Ferrari.
> 
> And what does "good standing" mean?? Those who have previously purchased a Ferrari and have meekly put up with the snobbery?
> 
> Sure, pay $2,500,000 and not take possession of one's own property. Not even the founder of the company was *that *full of himself.



The FXX is not street legal, so you can only drive it on a track anyway. That said, 800 HP in a car that weighs 2500 pounds is pretty ridiculous, and if you have the money to waste, it could be a neat thing to drive...


----------



## 65535




----------



## StarHalo

65535 said:


> (lp-670-4-sv-2-2-3.jpg)



The Murcielago SV was recently added to the Forza 3 driving sim; they even modeled how loud it is, as the screaming engine literally drowns out the game's background music..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> It means you're not this guy:


 
LOL !

That's one for you there, StarHalo.


----------



## Monocrom

Mjolnir said:


> The FXX is not street legal, so you can only drive it on a track anyway. That said, 800 HP in a car that weighs 2500 pounds is pretty ridiculous, and if you have the money to waste, it could be a neat thing to drive...


 
If one can afford to pay 2.5 million dollars for a single vehicle, that person can easily afford to pay for track-time, a trailer to carry it, or even afford their own track.


----------



## Stress_Test

StarHalo said:


> For regular folk: It's coming..




Oh YEAH!!

I'd love to pick up one of those when they come out, but I don't think my finances could handle TWO car payments, and I'm not selling the '07 I already have. 

Maybe after 10 years or so when I'm ready to replace my current ride (or, God forbid, if it's wrecked, blown up, or stolen!)


----------



## Monocrom

Let's see pics of your sweet '07.


----------



## Stress_Test

Monocrom said:


> Let's see pics of your sweet '07.



See my post in the first page.  Here's another too.

I was looking for some more to post, but I realized I don't really have all that many photos of it... been too busy driving it!!


----------



## LukeA

Cars are lowered by people who have never seen a pothole.

Super-thin tires...see above.

Wheels that rub fenders or look like they do are bad.


----------



## Twinkle-Plank

LukeA said:


> Cars are lowered by people who have never seen a pothole.
> 
> Super-thin tires...see above.
> 
> Wheels that rub fenders or look like they do are bad.


 
Yours ?


----------



## amigafan2003

Gonna have a go at fitting this soon:-


----------



## Solscud007

Nice caterham. I got to test drive one back in 2003. Very tight fit for me. I much prefer caterhams than Elise. 

Here is my all time favorite import car, my dad's '93 R1 FD3S RX7






Tuned and maintained by Tripoint Engineering for more than a decade.

Puts out 350hp to the wheels. it is one scary ride.


----------



## John_Galt

I'm a sucker for nice curves...

Check out this car!
http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2007/11/most-sensuous-car-shapes-ever-designed.html


----------



## amigafan2003

> Nice caterham. I got to test drive one back in 2003. Very tight fit for me. I much prefer caterhams than Elise.



Spit! It's not a Caterham btw.


----------



## GMLRS

Ultima GTR Recognized on October 7, 2008 by the World Records Academy as the world's fastest street-legal car.

http://pic.pbsrc.com/spacer.gif

Recently Ultima have focused their marketing efforts on record-breaking activities using a model equipped with a 640 bhp (477 kW) American Speed engine, which is called the Ultima GTR640, and subsequently, a 720 bhp (537 kW) engine which is called the GTR720. As a result, they have established the following official, independently verified records[3] for a production car equipped with road tires and exhaust:
Fastest 0-60 mph (97 km/h) time: 2.6 seconds[3]
Fastest 0-100 mph (160 km/h) time: 5.3 seconds[3]
Fastest 30 mph (48 km/h)-70 mph (110 km/h) time: 1.8 seconds[3]
Fastest 100 mph (160 km/h)- 0 mph time: 3.6 seconds[3]
Fastest 0-100 mph (160 km/h)- 0 mph time: 9.4 seconds[3]
Best performance on a skidpad: 1.176g lateral grip in a 200 ft (60 m) circle.
Fastest road car over the 1/4 mile: 9.9 seconds @ 143 mph (230 km/h)
Due to its curb weight of 990 kg (2,183 lb)[4], the power-to-weight ratio for the GTR720 is 727 hp (542 kW) per tonne, which is a better ratio than the Bugatti Veyron, Enzo Ferrari, Ascari A10, Koenigsegg CCX or CCGT (but less than the Koenigsegg CCXR), it's also lesser to the Caparo T1. However, the Ultima chassis is rated for engines up to 1,000 bhp (700 kW) and some of Ultima's customers have fitted engines producing 1,000 bhp (700 kW) or more[5], for a power-to-weight ratio of over 1,000 hp (746 kW) per ton


----------



## rayman

One of my favourite cars is the VW Golf R32 which you can get with a twin turbo with 542hp from a German company .

rayman


----------



## GMLRS

Pagani Zonda R 750 horsepower, 0-60 under 2.7 seconds. 2200 lbs about at S.E.M.A. $1.850.000+ USD

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/03/sema-2009-pagani-zonda-r-is-a-great-way-to-start-your-day/


----------



## LukeA

Twinkle-Plank said:


> Yours ?



Sadly no. But one will be pretty soon. That particular one is owned by somebody who goes to the same gym as I do. Every day I walk by and think, "Man I like that car!"


----------



## duboost

if anyone is bored and has some time to kill you can check out this thread over on The Car Lounge. Full of 153 pages and counting of nothing but pics and every page gets better :thumbsup:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3438832

the thread was started back in 07 so a lot of pics on the first pages don't work anymore, may wanna start at the end and work your way back


----------



## KeyGrip

Lotus Exige:





And a little shameless plug for my friend TC, the Carbon Coupe


----------



## StarHalo

FSAE "Mini Indy" car


----------



## flashlightpower

This is mine...I'd really like to get some pro shots done one day, especially some rolling shots (for as much $$$ I have in this thing, all worth it). 

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm198/AutogeekM/DSCN1308.jpg


----------



## Lite_me

Sa_weeeeeet..! :thumbsup:


----------



## Nameless

StarHalo said:


> FSAE "Mini Indy" car



Did you find that picture by chance or do you have a connection to the TU Müchen FSAE Team? I'm asking because I'm a member of the TU Darmstadt Racing Team since this little beauty:





(The one in the middle.  )


----------



## StarHalo

Nameless said:


> Did you find that picture by chance or do you have a connection to the TU Müchen FSAE Team?



Found it by chance, it was the first time I'd seen an FSAE car or heard of the series. It looks interesting though, it could be fun to watch a field of novice racers try to control the snap oversteer that short a wheelbase could generate..


----------



## Nameless

Yes, the short wheelbase results in a very "active" car. But to have a chance of winning you have to keep the wheelbase short because of the very narrow and twisty course. You have about 3 meters in width and a maximum of 60 meters straight. 
With a "normal" car you aren't be able to get around the track without backing off, I've tried.


----------



## ToNIX

I like to keep things simple, here's my dream car


----------



## gswitter

That's my favorite generation of Impreza/WRX/STi as well.

There's a good chance my next car will be a '06 or '07 WRX wagon.


----------



## StarHalo

ToNIX said:


> I like to keep things simple, here's my dream car



I like the grown-up/sleeper version, the Limited. Leather interior, no gonzo wing or decals.


----------



## Databyter

McLaren F1 was always my fantasy sportscar, I hear they are coming out with some new street legal supercars later this year, or possibly 2011. Designed by a racing team to be a street legal racecar with no holds barred and money not an issue. Although it was made to be driven legally by anyone the McLaren F1 set new racetrack speed records.

*In Detail*

submitted by Richard Owen type Production Car production years 1992 - 1998 released at 1992 Monaco F1 built at Woking, England body stylist Peter Stevens coachbuilder McLaren engineers Gordon Murray production 65 price $ $ $970 000 USD engine BMW S70/2 60 Degree V12 position Mid Longituinal aspiration Natural valvetrain Chain Driven DOHC w/4 Valves per Cyl, Variable Inlet Timing displacement 6064 cc / 370.0 in³ bore 86.0 mm / 3.39 in stroke 87.0 mm / 3.43 in compression 10.5:1 power 467.6 kw / 627.1 bhp @ 7400 rpm specific output 103.41 bhp per litre bhp/weight 550.09 bhp per tonne torque 649.4 nm / 479.0 ft lbs @ 5600 rpm redline 7500 body / frame Carbon Fibre Monocoque w/Front Upper Sub Frame, Active Aerodynamics driven wheels RWD w/Torsen, front tires Goodyear F1 P235/45ZR-17 rear tires Goodyear F1 P315/45ZR-17 front brakes Unassisted Vented & Crossdrilled Discs rear brakes Unassisted Vented & Crossdrilled Discs front wheels F 43.2 x 22.9 cm / 17.0 x 9.0 in R 43.2 x 29.2 cm / 17.0 x 11.5 in steering Unassisted Rack & Pinion f suspension Ground-Plane Shear Centre Double Wishbones w/Light Alloy Dampers, Co-Axial Coil Springs, A r suspension Double Wishbones w/Light Alloy Dampers, Co-Axial Coil Springs  weight 1140 kg / 2513 lbs wheelbase 2718 mm / 107.0 in front track 1568 mm / 61.7 in rear track 1472 mm / 58.0 in length 4288 mm / 168.8 in width 1820 mm / 71.7 in height 1140 mm / 44.9 in Transverse 6-Speed Manual w/AP Triple Plate Clutch gear ratios 3.23:1, 2.19:1, 1.71:1, 1.39:1, 1.16:1, 0.93:1 final drive 2.37:1 

*top speed ~386.4 kph / 240.1 mph 0 - 60 mph ~3.2 seconds 0 - 100 mph ~6.7 seconds 0 - 1/4 mile ~11.6 seconds designers Gordon Murray, Peter Stevens*

(sorry if the specs are hard to read, I lost the formatting in my paste and had to delete alot of html code that showed up as well)

http://www.supercars.net/carpics/1177/1994_McLaren_F12.jpg


----------



## gswitter

StarHalo said:


> I like the grown-up/sleeper version, the Limited. Leather interior, no gonzo wing or decals.


Yeah, I'd love that in a hatchback (minus the leather).

Current daily-driver: de-badged, de-stickered, de-winged Integra Type R.


----------



## ToNIX

Nah, I love the big *** wing  Looks mean heh.

The new hatchback version is growing on me though. The more I see it, the more I want one (soon soon!)


----------



## gswitter

I'm long beyond the "Look at me!" phase. I want the car to go very fast and unnoticed.


----------



## EndOfTheTunnel

Monocrom said:


> Every Batmobile has been cool as Hell. Usually long, black, and often muscular. Someone turned their crappy Smart Car into a Batmobile??



It's the one Robin gets to drive


----------



## Monocrom

Even Robin would have some self-respect.


----------



## Dioni

Onuris said:


> Obsidian CoupeR '67 Mustang


----------



## addictedmatt

^ I love the rear of that stang.


----------



## Dioni

Yeah.. absolutely stunning!


----------



## StarHalo

Local Motors Rally Attack with shark print






70's-era Porsche resto-mod






Subaru WRX rally one-wheel drive






The one SLR I actually like the look of






Mini Cooper Roadsters, almost actual size






The last great race


----------



## StarHalo

Check out my new Ferrari


----------



## Popsiclestix

Not exactly road legal:

http://www.f1-fansite.com/wallpaper/2005/launch/Ferrari-F2005-1024.jpg


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Check out my new Ferrari . . .


 
Apparently God decided someone wasn't worthy.


----------



## StarHalo

SSC Aero - 1287hp driving only the rear wheels. It's like a pair of Corvette ZR1s (and as ridiculously impossible to drive)






Gumpert Apollo, so fast they won't see the ugly






Radical SR8, current world record holder for street-legal car around the Nuremburgring; about the size of a large amusement park go-kart, with 380hp pushing only 1400lbs (a current Mazda Miata is more than a half ton heavier)






These cars and eight others are in the new Forza 3 "Exotic cars" downloadable pack - if you haven't tried it yet, even if you're not really a video game fan, I still highly recommend this very-near car simulator. There's over 400 cars included (nearly all the stock/manufacturer cars that appear in this thread, including the Veyron, McLaren F1, Shelby Cobra, etc), and a couple dozen real-world tracks that are very accurately reproduced.. 

See it here: http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/default.htm


----------



## signal 13

how about "The Cars"






No? Well then how about a solid white gold Abu Dhabi Mercedes:


----------



## Monocrom

signal 13 said:


> . . . how about a solid white gold Abu Dhabi Mercedes:


 
For a second there, I thought it was polished titanium.


----------



## Inliner

Hey Ford - I'd buy a Falcon Ute!


----------



## LightWalker

I've always liked the Lamborghini and the new ones are pretty cool. It's too bad they cost so much.


----------



## StarHalo

LightWalker said:


> I've always liked the Lamborghini and the new ones are pretty cool. It's too bad they cost so much.



The Embolado is a student-designed concept and not actually from Lamborghini. But the upcoming hybrid Lambo will look something like this Audi-Lambo joint venture design, called the Madura:


----------



## LightWalker

StarHalo said:


> The Embolado is a student-designed concept and not actually from Lamborghini. But the upcoming hybrid Lambo will look something like this Audi-Lambo joint venture design, called the Madura:


 
It looks fast, I'm sure it cost much more than I would ever want to spend on a car though.


----------



## 65535

LightWalker said:


> I've always liked the Lamborghini and the new ones are pretty cool. It's too bad they cost so much.


I'm sorry I can't say I share the sentiment, I would love myself that SuperVeloce Murcielago BUT, if I could afford one right now, the number of people that would own them would be scary. Scary considering how poorly people drive pathetically powerless cars they currently can afford.

NO thank you for them owning a Lamborghini


----------



## 65535

StarHalo, can you recommend any racing games on the ps3 platform or is it Forza that really is king?


----------



## StarHalo

65535 said:


> StarHalo, can you recommend any racing games on the ps3 platform or is it Forza that really is king?



Gran Turismo 5 will eventually be the exclusive racer on PS3, but it has been delayed many times, and currently has a November release date. There are a lot of comparisons between it and Forza, but it's not an entirely fair comparison since one game doesn't actually exist yet, each game is/will be only available exclusively on its respective console (so you'd have to own both consoles just to compare them), and Gran Turismo 4 is from 2005 and the PS2, so it's not really in the running.

I can say that I bought an XBox360 specifically to play Forza (totally worth it, just make sure you get an XBox with a hard drive), and that it does have some definitive pros over the GT series - the gameplay is completely customizable; you can set it for old-school arcade action where there's no damage/cars bounce off things and a child could drive it, or for totally realistic simulation where there's damage and wear (including mechanical/internal) and manual-with-clutch shifting, or any degree of difficulty/complexity in between. There's also the "Rewind" feature, where you can press a button and whatever just happened actually rewinds a few seconds, and you can try again from the previous point in time - this makes racing a lot more fun, and ends the pain of having a great run ruined by some tiny error (or lethal crash). Plus all the cars are customizable and upgradeable, so if you've ever wanted to know what it'd be like to drive a rear-wheel-drive Prelude or stock-car-powered Mustang, now you can..

When GT5 is released, it will probably again be an unfair comparison just due to the amount of time between releases; but if you want to play this year, Forza 3 is the one.


----------



## Lite_me

I picked up Forza 3 a few months ago along with a MS Racing Wheel. It can really get immersive. The graphics are outstanding. Beautiful tracks. My favorite so far is just running a Quick Race at Nüburgring the 1999 #15 BMW Motorsport V12. That thing handles great and can really go through the gears. Baby you can fly! I have to do that at least once whenever playing the game. :thumbsup:


----------



## 65535

My cousin has Forza on his XBox, and I wouldn't mind having an XBox sometime. But having a quality driving simulator would be kickass.


----------



## StarHalo

The current XBox Elite bundle includes a copy of Forza 3 _for free_; it's everything you need to play in one box..


----------



## 65535

That is not bad at $300 either, I was looking at it. Just need a wheel hehe. And pedals that too. It is a shame though since I just got a PS3, but I'll put a little slush fund together for an XBox (mhm Forza 3 on a 50" 1080i free tv yes that's the stuff)


----------



## StarHalo

The times they are a'changin'..

2004 Ford Mustang GT *V8*: 1/4 mile in secs: [email protected], MPG: 17/24
2011 Ford Mustang *V6*: 1/4 mile in secs: [email protected], MPG: 19/29


----------



## gswitter

Just think what it could do if they'd just shrink the size (weight) of that pig.


----------



## alpg88

this would be a perfect car for me.

who needs roads, or boats.


----------



## StarHalo

gswitter said:


> Just think what it could do if they'd just shrink the size (weight) of that pig.



It's still ~300 lbs lighter than the Camaro, and all the reviews praise how light and nimble it feels; Ford has done a lot of work to turn the platform into a true sports car, and apparently it's worked, it has better handling numbers than either the last SVT Cobra or the current Shelby GTs. 

The old-school idea of the pony car segment is dead, no one wants a big engine stuffed in a small car with no consideration for dynamics anymore. Everyone has clamored for better handling from the Camaro/Mustang for so long that it was inevitable they'd eventually both become all-around sports cars..


----------



## Chauncey Gardner

*Snakes & Spyders*

_*Some things that slither & crawl:*_





Polished Snake:




another Spyder crawled in:




then a black Snake slithered by:




a Snake of a different make:




The little Spyders are so cute you wanna give 'em a hug.





Have some horse pictures around here somewhere along with some bulls...

Great thread:twothumbs.


----------



## gswitter

*Re: Snakes & Spyders*



StarHalo said:


> It's still ~300 lbs lighter than the Camaro, and all the reviews praise how light and nimble it feels


They may have made significant improvements, and I suspect a lot of those reviewers were first treated to a ride/drive in the previous generation car. Compared to the predecessor, it may indeed feel light and nimble. But the car tips the scales at close to *two tons* (with driver), and has to make due with the same suspension, brake and tire tech as the everyone else. You can't fight physics.



Chauncey Gardner said:


>


(Big sigh.)

Now that's light and nimble. (And oh so lovely.)


----------



## Chauncey Gardner

Talked the owner for a while of that one gst & it was one of the most perfect I'd ever seen at the historics of any make. 

A car to make you lose your head over:devil:...


See if I can find a shot of the latest & greatest Spyder here someplace.

In the meantime, here are some horses:





Some classic TR's




Another blast from the past




and an interior that made me drool as a kid




That seems to have held up pretty well over the years.

Underboot of another 906 for gstwitter:





Such a beautiful, well balanced little car. So different from anything else at the time & so much more efficient at it.


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardner said:


> See if I can find a shot of the latest & greatest Spyder here someplace.



One better:


----------



## Chauncey Gardner

*Re: Snakes & Spyders*



gswitter said:


> They may have made significant improvements, and I suspect a lot of those reviewers were first treated to a ride/drive in the previous generation car. Compared to the predecessor, it may indeed feel light and nimble. But the car tips the scales at close to *two tons* (with driver), and has to make due with the same suspension, brake and tire tech as the everyone else. You can't fight physics.
> 
> 
> (Big sigh.)
> 
> Now that's light and nimble. (And oh so lovely.)


 
It's replacement is a nice set of wheels too:






Out & in:





"Thanks, I'll check my own oi :thumbsup:l":





and opened up:





It shared a lot of techbits with this CS:






Love the sound of screaming Spyders & slithering Snakes.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Snakes & Spyders*



Chauncey Gardner said:


> It's replacement is a nice set of wheels too:
> 
> Love the sound of screaming Spyders & slithering Snakes.



That's a Carrera, not a Spyder 

The one I posted is the 2011 Boxster Spyder

I would agree that the Carerra sounds much better though..


----------



## Chauncey Gardner

*Re: Snakes & Spyders*



StarHalo said:


> That's a Carerra, not a Spyder
> 
> The one I posted is the 2011 Boxster Spyder
> 
> I would agree that the Carerra sounds much better though..


 
Carerra GTS _Spyder_:nana:.

The racer is also a Carerra Spyder.

The 2011 Boxster Spyder remind you of the old 911 speedster of the late '80's too?


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Snakes & Spyders*



Chauncey Gardner said:


> The 2011 Boxster Spyder remind you of the old 911 speedster of the late '80's too?



It does a bit, though the Spyder has the cool new "bikini top":






The one that looks most like original Spyder to me (in the nose section, at least) is the vaporware Ruf I put in the very first post: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3173813&postcount=1


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> The times they are a'changin'..
> 
> 2004 Ford Mustang GT *V8*: 1/4 mile in secs: [email protected], MPG: 17/24
> 2011 Ford Mustang *V6*: 1/4 mile in secs: [email protected], MPG: 19/29


 
2011 V8 with a Supercharger shoe-horned in for me!


----------



## Chauncey Gardner

*Re: Snakes & Spyders*



StarHalo said:


> It does a bit, though the Spyder has the cool new "bikini top":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one that looks most like original Spyder to me (in the nose section, at least) is the vaporware Ruf I put in the very first post: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3173813&postcount=1


 

That is sweet Love the black & white / black & cream on these cars.

The Carrera GT looks better in Syper format with the carbon panels removed, but this looks great with the bra on. 

Love the Ruf's & have a few of those around (pics at least) I'll try to find.

Can't wait to get down to Monterey again this year for the races. The Wine country classics are a lot of fun also.
Better fried calamari at 'Seca though .

Took another look at the first Ruf & you're right. You can clearly see they went after some lineage there.
Porsche has always been my favorite car designer since a little kid. Ferry Porsche was a genius innovator, designer, engineer on the same level as John Browning. 

Timeless designs of purity of form, function, efficiency & grace.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> 2011 V8 with a Supercharger shoe-horned in for me!



That would be the 2011 Shelby GT500 (not the earlier models), but no one's tested one yet. You can distinguish it from earlier models by the thinner race stripes..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> That would be the 2011 Shelby GT500 (not the earlier models), but no one's tested one yet. You can distinguish it from earlier models by the thinner race stripes..


 
Thinner?? :duh2:

Is that the Ladies Edition? 

Okay, I'm kidding. That's a great pic.


----------



## StarHalo

StarHalo said:


> but no one's tested one yet.



And wouldn't you know it, two days later, Car & Driver tests one:

2011 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500: 1/4 mile in secs: [email protected], lateral Gs: 1.00
2010 Chevrolet Corvette: 1/4 mile in secs: [email protected], lateral Gs: 0.99

^ You're reading that correctly..


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*DAMN!!!oo::huh:*

That Snake looks sooo Bad-***!!:devil:

I'm a chevy guy myself, but these new Mustangs is just so damn nice lookin!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


>


 
I love the performance. But what the f**k is up with that giant smile?!

Who's the designer who tweaked the 2011 to look cute instead of bad-***?? . . . And why wasn't he beaten with a board that had a rusty nail in it?!?! :scowl:


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> I love the performance. But what the f**k is up with that giant smile?!



Gotta have a bigger airdam for the intercooler, a problem you'd still have to deal with if you supercharged a regular Mustang. But it least it doesn't look like this:







Though the truly bad-*** have the intercooler(s) right out in the open..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Gotta have a bigger airdam for the intercooler, a problem you'd still have to deal with if you supercharged a regular Mustang. But it least it doesn't look like this:


 
Oh don't remind me! :green:

You have no idea how happy I am that Mazda decided to re-design the *6 *a year earlier than the *3*. 

Otherwise my baby would be wearing that hideous Joker grin.


----------



## 65535

Monocrom said:


> Oh don't remind me! :green:
> 
> You have no idea how happy I am that Mazda decided to re-design the *6 *a year earlier than the *3*.
> 
> Otherwise my baby would be wearing that hideous Joker grin.




Looks more like gills, poor things trying to breathe and be smothered all at the same time.


----------



## Monocrom

65535 said:


> Looks more like gills, poor things trying to breathe and be smothered all at the same time.


 
I've seen a few of them on the road. Not surprisingly, the vast majority are black in color.

Gee, I wonder if that's because black makes that insane-asylum grin appear quite a bit less obvious.


----------



## gswitter

I see way too many of those new 3's around here. Absolutely hideous. Oddly, the majority of the ones I see are red or white. They always catch my eye because I really liked the previous generation, and the new one still looks decent from the rear.

Guess someone at Mazda was a fan of the old "Frog Eye" Sprite?


----------



## StarHalo

The 3 is based on Mazda's current design aesthetic centered around the Furai concept car, but the idea doesn't really translate to a hatchback..


----------



## Monocrom

Indeed not! That concept car is bad-***! :twothumbs


----------



## N10

Skyline GTR nismo Z-tune.



only available in right hand drive but that's what i like cause i learned to drive in a RHD car plus it's stick shift(i know it doesn't shift faster than a double clutch watever but it's much more fun with stick and i think most of us don't really have the skills or guts to drive those fast cars to do the things they can do anyways.

Mercedes G-class(i can spell the german name they gave to this thing)



Cool thing is that u have a car who's design won't get outdated because they never update it plus from what i've read/watched,it's a pretty good offroader

Ford bronco concept(oldish concept)
http://img52.imageshack.us/i/fordbroncoconcept200416.jpg/



Morgan aeromax..love it or hate it.
http://img714.imageshack.us/i/mainfileaeromaxbackwhit.jpg/


Rolls Royce Ghost
http://img59.imageshack.us/i/rollsroyceghost20101600.jpg/


Aston one 77








Zenvo ST1 supercharged&turbocharged 7L with over 1200+hp


----------



## gswitter

N10 said:


> Skyline GTR nismo Z-tune.


I prefer the looks of the R33, but the R34 is pretty sweet.


----------



## StarHalo

No love for the new kid?






I've seen a few of these in person, gotta say it's awfully big for a sports car, at least the size of an Accord coupe..

Edit: It's this big:








N10 said:


> i think most of us don't really have the skills or guts to drive those fast cars to do the things they can do anyways.



That's the joy of AWD, you can drive it a lot closer to/at its limits with relative ease; regardless of how ham-fisted you are with the throttle, it always holds its line (barring surprise downshifts). Guests at the Lamborghini factory are welcome to drive an AWD Murcielago around their track - they guarantee your lap time will be within two seconds of the track record set by their factory driver.



N10 said:


> Mercedes G-class(i can spell the german name they gave to this thing)



Somebody in my neighborhood has an AMG G-Wagon, it's very impressive to see until you consider what else the money could have gone to (a Porsche Turbo or house in the midwest comes to mind..)


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> No love for the new kid?


 
Mmm . . . That's a good looking back-side. :huh:


----------



## StarHalo

Here's a backside that goes 0 to 120mph in under 10 seconds; this one definitely won't be confused with a Beetle..


----------



## DaFABRICATA

StarHalo said:


> Here's a backside that goes 0 to 120mph in under 10 seconds; this one definitely won't be confused with a Beetle..


 


Ahem!!

More pics PLEASE!!!!


----------



## Chauncey Gardner

StarHalo said:


> Here's a backside that goes 0 to 120mph in under 10 seconds; this one definitely won't be confused with a Beetle..


 

:thumbsup:. There is nothing else like the rear end of the 911 series. 

And the new Skyline GTR is something else too.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Here's a backside that goes 0 to 120mph in under 10 seconds . . .


 
Poor thing. Check out that frown. It looks so sad. I've never seen a car more in need of a hug.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Poor thing. Check out that frown. It looks so sad. I've never seen a car more in need of a hug.



Here's why:


----------



## It01Firefox

StarHalo said:


> Here's why:



The GT2 RS comes standard with a stereo system, but you can opt it out to save weight. You can also get rid of the AC. And they deliver a lithium-ion battery for the car so you can save another 20 pounds on track day.

Also, who needs music when there's a six cylinder boxer screaming in the back. :devil:


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Here's why: . . .


 
Now that's just wrong. You want to save weight? Then the driver should drop a few pounds.


----------



## StarHalo

DaFABRICATA said:


> More pics PLEASE!!!!



Per request:







Interior; and you thought a strut tower brace in the engine bay was impressive.. Carbon fiber and alacantara with extra carbon fiber and alacantara







Cutaway, find all the radiators


----------



## QtrHorse

If you mean those two radiator looking things by the back tires, I'm guessing those are intercoolers for the twin turbos.



StarHalo said:


> Per request:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cutaway, find all the radiators


----------



## StarHalo

QtrHorse said:


> If you mean those two radiator looking things by the back tires, I'm guessing those are intercoolers for the twin turbos.



Yup, those are a type of radiator.


----------



## QtrHorse

StarHalo said:


> Yup, those are a type of radiator.


 
That they are but I have never heard of a intercooler called a radiator. Then again, I was never into the turbo cars until I purchased my turbo diesel truck.


----------



## QtrHorse

I took a few pictures of cars last weekend. This is the diversity in my neighborhood/ area that I live in.

On one hand you have a $400K 2010 Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 Coupe driven by a early 20 something kid and then you have a POS Hippy car that is driven by some eccentric old lady that is supposedly worth 10 million (this is what I have been told, no real proof).

The Lamborghini picture was taken outside the neighborhood burger place and the Hippy car was at the local supermarket.

Sorry for the crappy pictures, I took them with my phone.


----------



## StarHalo

The newest and 17th member of the BMW Art Car gallery, unveiled in Paris a few days ago; an M3 GTR2 painted by American artist Jeff Koons, destined to race at Le Mans later in the month, and will be on display at the BMW Museum thereafter.


----------



## Monocrom

Is Jeff 5 years old??


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Is Jeff 5 years old??



In my opinion, that one is easily in the top three of all the "art" cars :green:

Also,

R.I.P. Mercury Motors, 1939-2010. Gone and forgotten roughly 35 years ago..






(pictured; 1970 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler 429 Cobra Jet, a last gasp..)


----------



## Monocrom

Wait, Ford has gotten rid of their Mercury brand??

Once again . . .


----------



## Max_Power

My new ride - a 2008 BMW 750i in Alpine white. What a great driving machine! I actually drove it to the San Jose flashaholics gathering today 6/5/2010. Previous vehicle is a Honda Civic, which feels like a go-cart compared to this. Now I feel like royalty! 

Can you spot the Valentine 1 radar detector?

--Max_Power





http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4674204472/sizes/l/in/set-72157624207431178/


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Wait, Ford has gotten rid of their Mercury brand??



Turns out it's a bad idea to rebadge mediocre cars and redundantly sell them for 35 years (see also 1980-90's era GM). Pictured is a Mercury ...something.








Max_Power said:


> My new ride - a 2008 BMW 750i in Alpine white.



That is pretty royal, but I take it you don't drive around downtown San Francisco? Navigating those ridiculously narrow and crowded lanes is torturous in anything larger than a Civic..


----------



## Mjolnir

I was in DC the other day and I came across a Tesla Roadster Sport with a carbon fiber hood parked by the side of the road (sorry, no pictures). 

In the memorial day parade in DC they had 3 Rolls Royce Phantom Drophead Coupes (also no pictures except with my phone, which are not worth posting). They go for $412,000 each, and come complete with teak decks in the back.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Turns out it's a bad idea to rebadge mediocre cars and redundantly sell them for 35 years (see also 1980-90's era GM).


 
I had heard that Ford had plans to make Mercury a distinct brand, like it used to be. Guess that's not happening now. While I agree that offering distinct styling with some standard features that are only optional on similar Ford models is not enough to warrant a seperate brand, I have to admit that for quite a few years the family car was, and still is, a 1992 Mercury Sable that has been bullet-proof reliable. 

Has a few issues, but nothing major. That car enabled me to get to work and back reliably for nearly a year after my Escort got totalled. Thanks to the Sable, I was able to take the time to organize my finances to get a fantastic new ride. I'd likely be in a new KIA Spectra, instead of a new V6 Mazda 6. 

Someday, I might have to rely on that old Sable again. Few cars ever made that are cooler than a '49 Mercury. I'm going to miss the brand.


----------



## Max_Power

> Originally Posted by Max_Power
> My new ride - a 2008 BMW 750i in Alpine white.





StarHalo said:


> That is pretty royal, but I take it you don't drive around downtown San Francisco? Navigating those ridiculously narrow and crowded lanes is torturous in anything larger than a Civic..




I rarely visit downtown San Francisco. The entire city is basically automobile unfriendly. It is also the city with the highest homicide and robbery rate in the state. The one time I took my mountain bike to the park for a Sunday ride (parts of the park are closed to cars on Sundays) I found a section of it full of drug addicts / street people and they were not friendly. Had season tickets to the SF Symphony for a couple years, but my finances took a hit for a few years, and I disliked the avant garde crap that MTT seems to enjoy ramming down my throat. Bizarre politics and crazy city government there. I like the DeYoung Museum. Lots of great restaurants. Bars galore if you are into that scene (I am not.) Nice place to visit, but I am glad I don't live there.

Max_Power


----------



## StarHalo

Mjolnir said:


> In the memorial day parade in DC they had 3 Rolls Royce Phantom Drophead Coupes



Hilarious article where a Rolls Phantom Drophead is handed over to P.J. O'Rourke; he takes the dog and kids on a ride, lets neighbors drive, goes fishing, etc. Classic stuff: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q4/2010_rolls-royce_phantom_drophead_coupe-road_test


----------



## StarHalo

Another goodbye (for now), the Dodge Viper; on hiatus for a few years until Dodge can iron out what the next generation will be like. 

Pictured is the farewell model, the not-remotely-street-legal ACR-X (only $2000 more than the ACR), 1 of 25


----------



## ninemm

Just wanted to say that this thread is pure win. :twothumbs


----------



## StarHalo

ninemm said:


> Just wanted to say that this thread is pure win. :twothumbs



And it just gave you your 500th post


----------



## StarHalo

Would you be interested? (would The Bandit be interested?)


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Would you be interested? (would The Bandit be interested?)


 
Great car that was driven by a jerk.

He parked in a handicapped space.


----------



## StarHalo

2011 Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera; it hasn't been tested yet, but the numbers suggest a high 10-second quarter mile time, which would put it within half a second to a Bugatti Veyron, and make it the only other production car to join the Veyron's sub-11-second club (at one sixth of the price)..


----------



## Monocrom

Okay, for that level of performance; I can live with the hideous lime-green paint job. :green:


----------



## StarHalo

Some vintage awesomeness


[This scene has no dialogue]






Don't try this with a wing on a modern car..






Some guy named Jimmy and his import






1974 Dodge Monaco; 440 cubic inch plant, cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas. Cigarette lighter does not work.


----------



## Monocrom

1 ~ The scene says alot though.

2 ~ Still works . . . If the model is Kate Moss.

3 ~ Sadly the reason why I drive with my lights on when the Sun is particularly bright, while I'm behind the wheel of my silver car.

4 ~ No problem . . . I don't smoke. :thumbsup:


----------



## SmurfTacular

StarHalo said:


> 1974 Dodge Monaco; 440 cubic inch plant, cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas. Cigarette lighter does not work.







They've come a looong way baby


----------



## Monocrom

True, but the '74 model has a sort of Mad Max appeal.


----------



## StarHalo

Back to the backs: Audi R8 GT-R, a German Superleggera..


----------



## 65535

Now that's an R8 that actually looks the part of a German Superleggera.

Sexy.


----------



## StarHalo

Toyota FT-86G, aka performance-division Celica, < $30k..


----------



## ti-force

This is my Stang. It's not exotic though.....









The Mustang guys should know where the seats came from :


----------



## ninemm

Nice mustang. Love the sound of a 'stang with some nice pipes.


----------



## ti-force

ninemm said:


> Nice mustang. Love the sound of a 'stang with some nice pipes.



Thanks for the complement, and I completely agree about the sound. It gets my blood pumping haha..


----------



## ninemm

ti-force said:


> Thanks for the complement, and I completely agree about the sound. It gets my blood pumping haha..


 
Yup, my head always turns when I hear that sound. Me and the Mrs will probably get a stang as a Sunday car later in life. That's if I don't hit the lottery and get to build the completely custom '56 F-100 I've been dreaming of since forever.


----------



## StarHalo

ti-force said:


> This is my Stang. It's not exotic though.....



Always dug the Cobra wheels, but don't try to race the current V6s..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Toyota FT-86G, aka performance-division Celica, < $30k..


 
Reminds me of a Samurai warrior. (That's a compliment.)


----------



## ti-force

StarHalo said:


> Always dug the Cobra wheels, but don't try to race the current V6s..



The seats came out of a Cobra. An 04' Cobra to be exact, but the wheels came off of a 96' Saleen S281. Click here for an example. 

As for the V6s, you're comparing it to an 04' GT V8. Here are the specs for the 2011' GT V8 (according to Motor Trend) :
2011 Mustang GT 0-60 and 1/4 Mile: 0-60 mph: 4.3 sec, 1/4 mile: 12.8 sec at 110.8 mph

Impressive, but both of them will need to get faster to keep up with mine:


----------



## StarHalo

ti-force said:


> Impressive, but both of them will need to get faster to keep up with mine:



Ah ha, a GT sleeper, clever.. 

and speaking of big engines:


Cummins Mini Cooper; 78 Liter 12-turbo V-18, 3500 hp/10,300 lb-ft. The 11-ton mine pit dump truck engine doesn't leave any room for cooling or a transmission, so it's a static display, but this is still technically the only Mini that could possibly tow a house..








Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C 25,480 liter turbo two-stroke diesel inline-14, 108,920 hp/5,608,312 lb-ft (specs are for 14-cyl version, pictured is the smaller [!] 12 cyl). One big engine mated to one big propeller to move one big container ship.


----------



## gswitter

Still my favorite...


----------



## StarHalo

gswitter said:


> Still my favorite...



My two favorites parked side-by-side! And the GTO is back this year:


----------



## Launch Mini

Here is my "sleeper", sorry but this is the only pix I have on this machine.
Only putting out 384hp with 421ft/torque:nana:


----------



## ti-force

StarHalo said:


> and speaking of big engines:
> 
> 
> Cummins Mini Cooper; 78 Liter 12-turbo V-18, 3500 hp/10,300 lb-ft. The 11-ton mine pit dump truck engine doesn't leave any room for cooling or a transmission, so it's a static display, but this is still technically the only Mini that could possibly tow a house..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C 25,480 liter turbo two-stroke diesel inline-14, 108,920 hp/5,608,312 lb-ft (specs are for 14-cyl version, pictured is the smaller [!] 12 cyl). One big engine mated to one big propeller to move one big container ship.





*That's just awesome *





StarHalo said:


> My two favorites parked side-by-side! And the GTO is back this year:




*And I think I just soiled my undies after that pic .*


----------



## StarHalo

Launch Mini said:


> Here is my "sleeper", sorry but this is the only pix I have on this machine.



A 1-series with the dual clutch would be just about perfect for me right now.

But then there's going to be the one with the M badge..







Also,

The last Dodge Viper has rolled off the line in Detroit:


----------



## Launch Mini

StarHalo said:


> A 1-series with the dual clutch would be just about perfect for me right now.
> 
> But then there's going to be the one with the M badge..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dinan has helped me a weed bit


----------



## StarHalo

The Rossi 66; current Corvette platform, $130,000, made in California.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> The Rossi 66; current Corvette platform, $130,000, made in California.


 
Nice back-side.

Looks like GM took a page out of Ford's book. Nothing wrong with retro styling, as long as you do it right! (No wait! As long as you copy a really popular model from your company's past. Yeah, that's it.)

Stingray is back!


----------



## Burgess

Oh, is that Rossi 66 a *General Motors* product ? ? ?





BTW, i certainly LOVE the styling ! ! !

:kiss:




_


----------



## StarHalo

Burgess said:


> Oh, is that Rossi 66 a *General Motors* product ? ? ?



Nope, it's a Rossi Motor Company product, coachbuilders founded a couple of years ago in California. http://www.purerossi.com/

GM has avoided the Stingray concept since most modern takes on it are pretty revolting. Take this actually-produced Italian model, the Spada Codatronca (even the name is awful..):


----------



## Juggernaut

The Most Beautiful car in the World “as far as I’m concerned”



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

*The Lincoln Continental Mark IV*




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here’s a quick snapshot of mine at the local car show, my friend's Plumb Crazy beetle in the fore ground. Both are 74’s. Mine car extends about 2 feet behind his VW too…..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Take this actually-produced Italian model, the Spada Codatronca (even the name is awful..):


 
I'll take it! . . . Straight to the junkyard so they can crush that abomination out of existence! :sick2:


----------



## StarHalo

Juggernaut said:


> The Most Beautiful car in the World “as far as I’m concerned”



Ah yes, the 70's era land barges; I've always wanted to take one of those and make it a convertible, with six doors and three rows of bench seating, double axle at the rear, header side exhaust, locomotive horn..


----------



## Max_Power

Hard right rudder!




StarHalo said:


> Ah yes, the 70's era land barges; I've always wanted to take one of those and make it a convertible, with six doors and three rows of bench seating, double axle at the rear, header side exhaust, locomotive horn..


----------



## StarHalo

Because 1000hp isn't enough; introducing the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport - bigger turbos and intercoolers, new carbon fiber monocoque body (available in all-bare lacquered carbon fiber or the bare/black/orange seen below). 1200 hp/1106 lb-ft, and a Guinness-verified two-way average top speed of 268 mph. Production will begin this fall with five copies, which are already sold.


----------



## Burgess

to StarHalo --


Thank you for that Link to Rossi Motor Company.


Very interesting, indeed !


I've been quite a fan of the "split-rear-window" Corvettes, since i was young.


:goodjob::thanks:
_


----------



## StarHalo

Fahrvergnügen, y'all.. (forthcoming Volkswagen Amarok at the Nurburgring)


----------



## ninemm

StarHalo said:


> Fahrvergnügen, y'all.. (forthcoming Volkswagen Amarok at the Nurburgring)


 
Crazy that you would post this, as just last night when driving by my local VW dealership I thought to myself...when will VW offer a pickup truck? lol


----------



## StarHalo

ninemm said:


> when will VW offer a pickup truck? lol



But will anyone be interested? I can understand if they brought back a new version of The Thing, but I don't know that the Passat/GTI set would go for a pickup..


----------



## Juggernaut

StarHalo said:


> Because 1000hp isn't enough; introducing the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport - bigger turbos and intercoolers, new carbon fiber monocoque body (available in all-bare lacquered carbon fiber or the bare/black/orange seen below). 1200 hp/1106 lb-ft, and a Guinness-verified two-way average top speed of 268 mph. Production will begin this fall with five copies, which are already sold.


 

That thing is SWEET!
 
Though stupid….
For Under $175,000 I could buy…..



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
A 4 door 68’ Imperial



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
72’ Stutz BlackHawk 



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Pr. Fate’s Hannibal-8 from “The Great Race”



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Oh, and this Out Law derby car, who’s entire body is made from solid ½ inch thick high carbon plate steel layered twice with 2 inches of plate steel up front, weights over 14,500 pounds and could drive straight through an armored car!
 
If I was given the option for those cars or that Bugatti “and I couldn’t sell any of them” I would so pick my list. There are many other cars I would rather have but my computer is to slow to download anymore pictures….


----------



## SmurfTacular

StarHalo said:


> Fahrvergnügen, y'all.. (forthcoming Volkswagen Amarok at the Nurburgring)



Leave it to the Americans to make the worlds trucks, followed by the Japanese.


----------



## Mjolnir

Why would they even take a pickup truck around the nurburgring? Seriously, it is a truck! Trust a German company to put a non performance vehicle on the same track that supercars are raced on...


----------



## StarHalo

Mjolnir said:


> Why would they even take a pickup truck around the nurburgring?



It makes as much sense as VW making a truck.. but if it's got the VR6 with AWD, it could probably nudge the 10-minute mark..

And don't forget The Queen of The Ring, Sabine Schmitz, who has logged over 400,000 miles on the 'Ring, and was able to pass Porsches and sportbikes while driving a _diesel transit van_ for Top Gear..


----------



## StarHalo

Merry Christmas: Kaeng Krachan Race Circuit, Thailand


----------



## StarHalo

Another eulogy: The last PT Cruiser rolled off the assembly line today.






The most anticipated and popular little car from 1999 (a 2001 Car & Driver 10 best) has undergone the following changes in its ten-plus-year run:

Front fascia updated
Engine revision

Aside from a whole slew of "special" editions (exterior tack-on packages), that's it. And that's how you completely nullify a potentially-brand-saving car in just a few short years (see also _Chrysler 300_).


----------



## Juggernaut

StarHalo said:


> Another eulogy: The last PT Cruiser rolled off the assembly line today.


 
My father bought a PT Cruiser Turbo limited not to long ago, the thing is Sah-Weeet:rock:! I’ve never been a fan of them, but it’s got the wood side kit “I know, ugly right?” but on this car it’s sick:twothumbs! I have to upload a picture sometime. If you look at the PF14 pictures it’s in the background a few times.


----------



## Black Rose

We currently lease a 2006 Chevrolet HHR LT (designed by the same guy that designed the PT Cruiser).

On Monday we are picking up a 2010 Chevrolet HHR that we bought on Thursday. Gotta love end of model year, employee pricing, loyalty credits, and 0% financing.

2011 is the last model year for the HHR.


----------



## StarHalo

Those of you who liked the quirkiness of the PT Cruiser will be glad to know that the now-closed factory will be retooled and reopened to make Fiat/Chrysler 500s, available at 125 dealerships nationwide in just a few months. The 500 is as popular all across Europe as the PT was in its heyday, and is Michael Schumacher's daily driver..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


>


 
Poor SpongeBob Squarepants is looking a bit pale.


----------



## StarHalo

OPOC is coming:






EcoMotors' revolutionary OPOC engine has just received a new investor to aid its development, Bill Gates, so you can expect to be hearing more about it in the coming months..

The Opposed Piston Opposed Cylinder two-stroke engine is similar to a boxer engine but with each piston pair facing one another in each chamber; the two-stroke design removes the need for a cylinder head, which reduces air friction, and having a piston on each side of the combustion means all the force is directed into the crank, none to the case. The result is 50% better mileage over a standard four-stroke engine, with 50% fewer parts. EcoMotors envisions the OPOC becoming a viable alternative to current hybrid setups, with the goal of achieving 100 MPG in a current production car.


----------



## Monocrom

But what can we expect in terms of torque and horsepower?


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> But what can we expect in terms of torque and horsepower?



EcoMotors CEO Don Runkle: "We're working on two engine families. The EM100d is a diesel with a 100-millimeter bore developing 325 horsepower, and the EM65ff has a 65-millimeter bore and makes about 75 horsepower in two-cylinder form on gasoline." 

These are the numbers for the current engine design, revision six, and thanks to the new infusion of cash, number seven is probably on its way..


----------



## 65535

Interesting design indeed, looks like it may run very well with very little forced induction, say maybe 2-3psi boost. Those two strokes really suck down that air.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> EcoMotors CEO Don Runkle: "We're working on two engine families. The EM100d is a diesel with a 100-millimeter bore developing 325 horsepower, and the EM65ff has a 65-millimeter bore and makes about 75 horsepower in two-cylinder form on gasoline."
> 
> These are the numbers for the current engine design, revision six, and thanks to the new infusion of cash, number seven is probably on its way..


 
The diesel sounds promising.

BTW, heard that the PT Cruiser is not going to be killed after all. But Fiat most likely will take over its production.


----------



## StarHalo

The Brammo Empulse 10.0 electric motorcycle; 390 pounds, 55 hp/59 lb-ft, 100 mile range, six hour recharge, 100+ mph top speed, starting at $9,995, available at Best Buy next year.


----------



## Monocrom

Are . . . Are those training wheels on the back tire??


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Are . . . Are those training wheels on the back tire??



That's the parking block, ya goof. It looks like this in-use:


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> That's the parking block, ya goof.


 
You have to admit, it does look like a set of training wheels.


----------



## StarHalo

Speaking of electrics, today was a good day for a test drive..


----------



## StarHalo

Suddenly I'd like to go on a family vacation.. (Ferrari 456 Venice Estate Speciale, 1 of 17)


----------



## Monocrom

Oh please tell me that is photoshopped! :sick2:


----------



## StarHalo

Nope, it was assembled right on the line next to all the other 456's, commissioned by the Sultan of Brunei. It may not be a ravishing sports car, but for those of us who miss non-SUV non-"crossover" non-gas-guzzling non-high-center-of-gravity plain ol' station wagons, it's a nice sight..


----------



## Lite_me

How bout a Mazda 6 wagon. I'm afraid tho, that they're not going to release them in the US.


----------



## StarHalo

Lite_me said:


> How bout a Mazda 6 wagon.



With the V6, definitely; especially awesome since Honda and Toyota gave up on the idea of wagon versions of their sedans long ago..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Nope, it was assembled right on the line next to all the other 456's, commissioned by the Sultan of Brunei. It may not be a ravishing sports car, but for those of us who miss non-SUV non-"crossover" non-gas-guzzling non-high-center-of-gravity plain ol' station wagons, it's a nice sight...


 
Well . . . Not the first time some Mad scientist decided to combine a pure sports car with a station wagon. Check out this 1954 concept car. Corvette front end, combined with a Nomad body. :shakehead


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Check out this 1954 concept car. Corvette front end, combined with a Nomad body.



That makes some sense, since the first-gen Corvette wasn't much of an actual sports car anyway (and had a truck engine..)


----------



## StarHalo

A smoother Rex: 2011 Subaru WRX STi, optional leather interior and moonroof now available..


----------



## 65535

I like that Subi.


----------



## orbital

+

Couple shots from R.A. this past weekend..


----------



## StarHalo

The Bloodhound is coming..






The British are ready to break the land speed record set only a few years ago in this new model developed by previous record holder Richard Noble and current record holder Andy Green, with backing from the British government. The Bloodhound SSC is powered by a Rolls Royce jet engine plus a rocket for a total of 47,500 lbs of thrust. They plan on not only matching the old Mach 1 speed record, but surpassing it by another 240mph, a target of *1000mph*. That's five football fields per second. Or fast enough the entirety of the Black Rock dry lake bed's 19 mile strip will only provide a 42 second run.

Americans have responded by pointing out that the car needs a 12" lift with chrome wheels, and more cupholders.


----------



## Max_Power

Don't forget spinners!


----------



## StarHalo

Does this make you angry?






It's a new Ford crossover, based on the Taurus/Flex platform. But it's not a new-name model; this is the 2011 Ford Explorer.

A lot of Ford faithful are up in arms, as this means the Explorer is now technically no longer an SUV, no longer a body-on-frame truck. The new unibody design is obviously not for offroading..

But personally, I'm not seeing the drawback here; I don't know of anyone who has an Explorer for actual offroading, and I can't say I've ever seen one traversing the High Desert here where I live, alongside the Jeeps and lifted trucks. I see them on the road all the time though, not doing anything outside of the usual duties of the other sedans and compacts. This is the same company that no longer offers a manual transmission for their F150 truck, because it wasn't popular, so it would make sense to make the daily driver Explorer a more solid and comfortable ride..


----------



## Monocrom

I predict GM SUV sales are going to go up significantly. Apparently Ford learned nothing from Coke's bone-headed blunder called "New Coke."


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Apparently Ford learned nothing from Coke's bone-headed blunder called "New Coke."



But if nearly all Explorers never go offroad, what difference would it make? It would follow that you should make it as refined as possible to stand out against the other non-offroad SUVs; How many soccer moms know what a "unibody" is?


----------



## Monocrom

Ah, but it's not about how often the average buyer takes their Explorer or Suburban off-road. It's about the buyer knowing that he always has that option. It's about the fantasy of blazing a trail, or being able to off-road it like Mad Max if the world suddenly falls apart . . . 

"Most of them will be stuck on crowded, paved, roads. While I'll be off-roading it to safety with me and my loved ones."

Not about any pragmatic reasons. It's about knowing you can. I can blow the doors off of most Honda Civics that are pimped out as racers. Few of the owners bother to upgrade the engine. They just pimp out the looks and sound system. That doesn't mean I go racing late into the night. But it's nice knowing I could easily show them up, if I chose to. Heck, the low-end torque from my ride often comes in far more useful than the horsepower.


----------



## ANDREAS FERRARI

I owned one just like this in my early 20's-best $3900 I ever spent.

When your 6'2" the backseat of a TA is the most uncomfortable place you can imagine.Even more uncomfortable for the young lady because of the drive shaft hump that divides the backseats(these cars are often referred to as 2+2 because of seating arrangement).

I once managed to get it up to 160km per hour in front of a police station.When I think how stupid and reckless I was back than(with girls and cars)it's a wonder I'm still alive.

One icy winter's night it was savagely attacked by a telephone pole.No car I have owned has meant so much to me-not counting the '64 Impala low-rider I drove from age 19-20.
Is it just me or did summer's seem to last forever back than.


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> A lot of Ford faithful are up in arms, as this means the Explorer is now technically no longer an SUV, no longer a body-on-frame truck. The new unibody design is obviously not for offroading..



I say they made that switch in 2002 when they took it off the Ranger frame. 20-30% better economy while driving the places people actually drive the things is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

Good on Ford for realizing that the Explorer has to compete with the Chevy Equinox and not the Chevy Blazer.


----------



## StarHalo

ANDREAS FERRARI said:


> I owned one just like this in my early 20's-best $3900 I ever spent.



Definitely one of the all-time great teenage guy cars, glad you got the most out of it. So would you be interested in buying the modern version?



LukeA said:


> Good on Ford for realizing that the Explorer has to compete with the Chevy Equinox and not the Chevy Blazer.



And that's the point, that there isn't really a broad need for a Chevy Blazer anymore.. The majority of buyers don't want unrefined offroad SUVs, they just want large car-like vehicles. How man modern-day SUV buyers even take offroad ability into consideration?


----------



## ANDREAS FERRARI

StarHalo-the link you gave is to a portable air conditioner.I don't get it.:thinking:


----------



## StarHalo

ANDREAS FERRARI said:


> StarHalo-the link you gave is to a portable air conditioner.I don't get it.:thinking:



lol, well I don't think you want to drive an air conditioner, my dumb cut n' paste function does though..

Here's the correct link: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3416028&postcount=182


----------



## ANDREAS FERRARI

StarHalo said:


>



I haven't been following this thread StarHalo but isn't that a 1969 1/2 Daytona Hemi Charger with a 426 Hemi engine and the soon to be banned from stock racing rear foil?

This is the only car I would trade for my long departed '77 TA.:candle:


----------



## tino_ale

Drooooooooooooling


----------



## StarHalo

ANDREAS FERRARI said:


> I haven't been following this thread StarHalo but isn't that a 1969 1/2 Daytona Hemi Charger with a 426 Hemi engine and the soon to be banned from stock racing rear foil?



Yup; there's very little difference dynamically between the Daytona and the stock Charger, and the main feature is the exhaust sound anyway; I'd only get the Daytona if you just had to have the body package. And you'd need a lot of TAs to trade for one of those..



tino_ale said:


> Drooooooooooooling



They top-speed tested the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport on the last episode of Top Gear (Season 15, Episode 5), it's worth seeing..


----------



## tino_ale

Just seen it, it's unthinkably awesome. There's one thing I find unique in this car, it's the sound. Not "empty" but full of bass, don't know how to explain it better but a ferrari sounds like crap compared to it (two different animals for sure, the comparison ends here...)


----------



## StarHalo

Hooked and I can't stop starin'..

(1400hp custom drag Camaro, those rear tires are 15" across..)


----------



## 65535

That's a beauty, but how does she take the corners?


----------



## StarHalo

65535 said:


> That's a beauty, but how does she take the corners?



Probably like a go kart with no suspension. If it weren't for the ride height, it wouldn't be too bad, those wide low-profile tires are better suited for turns rather than straights.


----------



## StarHalo

ANDREAS FERRARI said:


> I haven't been following this thread StarHalo but isn't that a 1969 1/2 Daytona Hemi Charger with a 426 Hemi engine and the soon to be banned from stock racing rear foil?
> 
> This is the only car I would trade for my long departed '77 TA.:candle:



Forgot to mention, if you start with a current Dodge Challenger, Heide Performance Products will turn it into a Daytona or Superbird starting at $16,395..


----------



## gswitter

I want to believe those aren't hub caps/wheel covers, but they sure do look like them. :duh2:


----------



## StarHalo

gswitter said:


> I want to believe those aren't hub caps/wheel covers, but they sure do look like them. :duh2:



Nope, they're custom-made aluminum rims, and they even include the redline tires.


----------



## 65535

StarHalo said:


> Probably like a go kart with no suspension. If it weren't for the ride height, it wouldn't be too bad, those wide low-profile tires are better suited for turns rather than straights.



In a car like that who cares how much suspension it has as long as it handles the corners nicely.


----------



## gswitter

From AutoBlog a few days ago...





Jetta TDI + $10K kit + ~100 hours labor = 60 mpg and a top speed of 140 mph.

The kits not finished yet, but it sounds like it's getting there.


----------



## StarHalo

gswitter said:


> Jetta TDI + $10K kit + ~100 hours labor = 60 mpg and a top speed of 140 mph.



If you're moving the engine to the rear, may as well stuff the VR6 with the AWD package in it; make yourself an Audi TTS killer..


----------



## gswitter

Agreed. That generation Quattro system can handle upwards of 800 hp, IIRC. Though I can't imagine it would be an easy swap to move the engine back _and_ maintain the AWD. There's certainly no shortage of lego bits for that generation VW/Audi.

Sounds like the maker is currently obsessed with bio-diesel. Hence the base TDI. No idea if the kit is dependent on anything in the TDI, but the maker stresses that it uses enough of the original car to still be registered as a Jetta.


----------



## StarHalo

2012 Trabant NT. Yes, really.


----------



## Monocrom

Aww . . . I want to hug it. It's so adorable.

(I wouldn't be caught dead in one. But it is cute.)


----------



## StarHalo

Bugatti Veyron Vincero d'Oro, by Mansory. Gold-trimmed carbon fiber with excess layered atop excess.


----------



## Monocrom

Now that is one fugly ride. :shakehead


----------



## StarHalo

General Motors CEO Ed Whitacre yesterday, when asked a question about GM selling a minivan:


----------



## Monocrom

That explains a lot.

Mostly as to why GM was run into the toilet. :thumbsdow


----------



## StarHalo

Ford Mustang Boss 302; 440hp, stiffer adjustable suspension, upgraded clutch, carbon fiber diff, new cams, side exhaust, cue-ball shifter. Ford really isn't playing around with the Mustang anymore..


----------



## Monocrom

Should be dark green, at the very least.


----------



## integera1

StarHalo said:


> Bugatti Veyron Vincero d'Oro, by Mansory. Gold-trimmed carbon fiber with excess layered atop excess.




I wonder how much it cost to make bugatti look like that from stock. Considering how much a Stock bugatti cost.


----------



## StarHalo

integera1 said:


> I wonder how much it cost to make bugatti look like that from stock. Considering how much a Stock bugatti cost.



The gold bits on the exterior are actual 24K gold, and a stock Veyron uses carbon fiber on only a few select areas of the body, not the entire thing; I'd expect the cost to be somewhere in modest-office-building territory..


----------



## tino_ale

Way, way too bling-bling for me.


----------



## StarHalo

Something more pleasant to look at, the RUF Porsche CTR3; a 911's front end with everything else changed, tuned to 690hp (over 3hp per cubic inch, almost 200hp per liter). One of nine built-to-order so far.


----------



## StarHalo

One more time, with another one of the nine..


----------



## StarHalo

More Porsche news; an aforementioned GT2RS set a Nürburgring time of 7:18, beating out the Nissan GT-R, Ferrari 458, Corvette ZR-1, Dodge Viper ACR, and... the Porsche Carrera GT oo:


----------



## StarHalo

Ford has announced supercharger kits for the Mustang 5.0, available in three stages; a Tuner Kit (basic kit for tuning, hp not listed), a 525hp kit, and a 624hp kit. If you have a dealer install the 525hp kit, it *includes a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty*. Prices start at $6,500, with the screw housing available in black or chrome.


----------



## orbital

+

*Corvette** Z**06 Carbon*, stunning!!


500 will be made


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> *Corvette** Z**06 Carbon*, stunning!!



That's clever how the Corvettes are like a fast food menu now:

- Corvette
- Corvette Grand Sport (Z06 handling package)
- Corvette Z06
- Corvette Z06 Carbon (ZR1 handling package)
- Corvette ZR1


----------



## StarHalo

More Mustang seriousness:






Yes, that's an M3. Motor Trend compared the two on the track using both a pro driver and the journalist:

Pro driver times -
2011 BMW M3: 87.67 seconds
2011 Mustang GT: 87.76 seconds

That's a difference of 0.09 seconds, slightly shorter than an eye blink, with a price difference of $26,750 (the Mustang was heavily optioned). 

His comments: "I missed the mid-range torque of the Mustang. The BMW ramps up more slowly and is skewed toward high rpm whereas the Mustang has a much broader, flatter torque curve. Another surprise was the BMW understeers more. A lot more, and that for me, took some of the fun out of it. It made it an easier car to drive fast, but it was not as much fun. The balance wasn't as good." oo:

The journalist also lapped:
2011 BMW M3: 92.07 seconds
2011 Mustang GT: 91.52 seconds

A solid win for the Mustang?! With the traction control minimally set, the GT allows for more rotation and finesse, making for a faster non-pro lap.

More numbers entertainment:
2011 BMW M3: 0-60: 4.4 seconds, 1/4mi: 12.8 [email protected] mph, Lateral Gs: 0.95, Power/Weight ratio: 8.6 lb/hp
2011 Mustang GT: 0-60: 4.4 seconds, 1/4mi: 12.7 [email protected] mph, Lateral Gs: 0.96, Power/Weight ratio: 8.8 lb/hp


----------



## Monocrom

Seems like a solid win for Ford.

(Especially for a car owner who prefers to buy, rather than lease a sweet ride.)


----------



## StarHalo

New car subculture:






Some Japanese folk are converting their modern boxy compacts into vintage American vans and SUVs; there isn't a name for it yet..


----------



## StarHalo

Mr. Runkle and his OPOC engine (75hp gas model), actual size. He's also building an OPOC-in-a-briefcase generator that puts out *10KW*.


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> Mr. Runkle and his OPOC engine (75hp gas model), actual size. He's also building an OPOC-in-a-briefcase generator that puts out *10KW*.



I went and watched a video featuring an animation of that engine. It's pretty ingenius, especially that you can daisy chain 2 (or more) of them together with locking torque converters and run just one most of the time, adding the second when needed for more power, like the GM I5 engine, but more flexible in design.

10kW is 13.4hp. With a ~50% efficient dynamo and inverter combo, that's ~25hp. I suppose that the fuel consumption with this one is lower than with a comparable 25hp conventional IC engine.


----------



## DLF

<Butthead>Uh, 

He said Motor Trend

huh huh huh</Butt-head>


----------



## StarHalo

LukeA said:


> 10kW is 13.4hp. With a ~50% efficient dynamo and inverter combo, that's ~25hp.



So it'd technically only need to be roughly a third of the size of the one pictured; that's crazy to think about, a generator literally the size of a briefcase powering your home while you run the air conditioner, do laundry, etc..


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> So it'd technically only need to be roughly a third of the size of the one pictured; that's crazy to think about, a generator literally the size of a briefcase powering your home while you run the air conditioner, do laundry, etc..



If you were scaling the engine uniformly and you wanted 1/3 the displacement, you have to divide each dimension by the cube root of 3, for a scaling factor of 1/[3^(1/3)] or ~0.693. So a ~25hp unit (naturally aspirated) would be about 70% as large as that one. And the conventional 10kW dynamo will still be somewhat larger than a gallon paint can.

Another thing I just thought about this engine is that it should be low vibration and the V angle (if not 180˚) should be of little significance, because the net reaction forces needed by the engine are zero, at least during the power stroke.


----------



## StarHalo

An EMT-case generator then, but that's still impressive; you could (visually) hide a whole-house generator in a trash bin..

And I wonder if there's some advantage over the flat angle over an inline design..


----------



## StarHalo

"Hello, [Mr./Mrs., Name], I am calling you with a one-time special offer on a pickup truck.." (Mahindra Pik Up, made in India, now EPA-approved for sale in the US)


----------



## Monocrom

Aww . . . That baby truck is adorable. 

I might buy him when he's full grown.


----------



## StarHalo

Speaking of adorable, put a set of these on your friend's car..


----------



## gswitter

StarHalo said:


> New car subculture:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some Japanese folk are converting their modern boxy compacts into vintage American vans and SUVs; there isn't a name for it yet..


I kinda... like... it. :duck:


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Speaking of adorable, put a set of these on your friend's car...


 
Okay, I admit it . . . I want to hug it! :huh:


----------



## StarHalo

gswitter said:


> I kinda... like... it. :duck:



Now they just need to convert some of their rear-wheel-drive cars to look like muscle cars, and we'll be on to something..


----------



## TONY M

StarHalo said:


> Speaking of adorable, put a set of these on your friend's car..


This is fantastic! I will have to do this to my friends mini for a laugh just to make him feel like a real man. :hahaha:


----------



## StarHalo

*1975 Ford Mustang II Mach I* vs *2010 Toyota Prius*

Yesterday's sporty versus today's slow; oh how far we've come..


----------



## Monocrom

Apples and oranges.

(Plus, 1975 was not the best year for performance cars; and especially not the Mustang.)


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> (Plus, 1975 was not the best year for performance cars; and especially not the Mustang.)



The Mustang II was a compact sporty car, a modern equivalent would be something along the lines of a Honda Civic Si. For that class and time, its honking 302 V8 made it the performance choice; similar cars such as the Chevy Monza, VW Scirocco, and Mercury Capri II were all slower.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> The Mustang II was a compact sporty car, a modern equivalent would be something along the lines of a Honda Civic Si. For that class and time, its honking 302 V8 made it the performance choice; similar cars such as the Chevy Monza, VW Scirocco, and Mercury Capri II were all slower.


 
Fair enough. Huge difference between "sport" and "sporty."

If it doesn't slam me back into my seat when I punch it; I'm not interested.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> If it doesn't slam me back into my seat when I punch it; I'm not interested.



Hm, that brings up a good question though; what reasonable cars (not the Miura, Carrera, etc.) from model year 1975 would slam you in the seat? Pontiac stopped making the Trans Am SD in '74, though I suppose the stock 455 was still a sports car for the era.. No more Challenger/Barracuda.. the Corvette was well under 200hp..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Hm, that brings up a good question though; what reasonable cars (not the Miura, Carrera, etc.) from model year 1975 would slam you in the seat? Pontiac stopped making the Trans Am SD in '74, though I suppose the stock 455 was still a sports car for the era.. No more Challenger/Barracuda.. the Corvette was well under 200hp..


 
Sadly it's true that the year of my birth was one of the dark years for enthusiasts. During the days when owners of muscle cars from just a handful of years ago couldn't pay others to take the cars off their hands!


----------



## StarHalo

Hm, tougher than I thought:

1/4 mile in secs @ mph

1975 Pontiac Trans Am 455: [email protected]
2010 Honda Civic Si: [email protected]

"Since the L75 455 had come out of the bigger Pontiacs it came as no surprise that it produced plenty of low-end torque, 330 lbs/ft of torque at a very low 2,000 rpm. However due to the restrictive heads and a grandma type cam, the compression ratio was a very low 7.5:1. This meant a L75 Trans Am ran its best on 87 octane gas and began to run out of steam once it went beyond 3,500 rpm."

So it'd slam you back into your seat for half of first gear..


----------



## Monocrom

I want it to slam me, and keep me pinned for longer than that.


----------



## StarHalo

If there's anything faster for '75, I'm not seeing it. I did find a modern car closer in performance though:

1975 Pontiac Trans Am 455: [email protected]
2007 Toyota Sienna: [email protected]






So there you have it, the fastest possible car you could reasonably buy in 1975 is slower than a modern minivan.


----------



## Monocrom

How very *un*-surprising. :shakehead


----------



## SmurfTacular

StarHalo said:


>



That is to damn funny. Being a Toyota product specialist myself, I can tell you that the Prius's _gasoline engine_ is 134hp, and the electric engine is 98hp, so the combined horsepower is 232. The 0-60 is actually 9.8 seconds. The weight that is listed is the fully loaded package, base package being just 3,050lb. The most impressive statistic, is thats its only .25 coefficient of drag. Ferrari's being .28 
Don't forget the Prius is a larger car by volume, it seats 5 and is roomier, has touch screen Bluetooth ready navigation, dual projection headlamps, auto-parallel parking feature (package 5), solar panel and sunroof (package 3 or 4), heated seats, and the list goes on. The future is damn scary.


----------



## StarHalo

The numbers I'm using are from a Car&Driver real world test, so it's not going to align perfectly with manufacturer numbers. I'm not sure how they arrived at the combined horsepower number, but my eyes glaze over whenever hybrid horsepower or mileage numbers are discussed; I know it's going to be slow and frugal, that'll do..


----------



## StarHalo

The Ferrari 458 has been recalled due to an ..er.. issue..


----------



## LukeA

Monocrom said:


> How very *un*-surprising. :shakehead



Are you disappointed that new things can be better than old things? That's silly.


----------



## Monocrom

LukeA said:


> Are you disappointed that new things can be better than old things? That's silly.


 
Not really. In a disposeable society, many older objects were indeed made better than they are today. Sometimes you bought an item, and it was just expected that with a bit of care it would last you a Lifetime. (Or even beyond. So you can pass them down to your children or even grand-children. Other than my SureFire lights, it's tough to think of something nowadays that you'll be able to pass on.)


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> with a bit of care it would last you a Lifetime.



Check it out, a dealership in Maryland has one for sale, not a 455, but 79K miles, $15K; somebody definitely took a bit of care


----------



## Monocrom

:huh:

Yes they did!

That is SWEET!!


----------



## gswitter

I was driving through a residential neighborhood this afternoon, and the car in front of me lost the passenger/rear wheel. He was probably going ~35mph at the time, so the wheel - which veered off to the right slightly - still had plenty of momentum when it hit the curb. It bounced a good five or six feet high, came down on a lawn and kept rolling towards a wooden fence. (I remember thinking to myself, "This ought to be interesting.") A good eight foot width of the fence was obliterated on impact. I imagine the owners were none too pleased, but they're lucky it didn't hit their house.


----------



## StarHalo

gswitter said:


> I imagine the owners were none too pleased, but they're lucky it didn't hit their house.



Heh, yeah, that could've gone through a window. I wonder how they'd get recompensed for the fence..


----------



## Monocrom

gswitter said:


> I was driving through a residential neighborhood this afternoon, and the car in front of me lost the passenger/rear wheel. He was probably going ~35mph at the time, so the wheel - which veered off to the right slightly - still had plenty of momentum when it hit the curb. It bounced a good five or six feet high, came down on a lawn and kept rolling towards a wooden fence. (I remember thinking to myself, "This ought to be interesting.") A good eight foot width of the fence was obliterated on impact. I imagine the owners were none too pleased, but they're lucky it didn't hit their house.


 
Was it a Toyota?

(Just Kidding.)


----------



## gswitter

Considering what it did to the fence (and the type of fence - solid, not runged), it probably would have done some serious damage to the nearby stucco wall.

It was a young kid in a Civic. Some neighbors witnessed it, so I didn't stick around for his story. He had just pulled out of a nearby high school parking lot, so maybe a prank gone bad? (Though I'm not sure how loosening or removing someone's lug nuts could ever go well.)

Years ago at a track day, I saw a guy lose the driver/rear. He's been struggling with keeping the lugs tight all day, and while breaking hard going into a corner, off it came. His comment when he came back in, "It's never good when you see one of your own wheels overtake you."


----------



## StarHalo

Possibly the next big thing, Tuner Hybrids

Honda CR-Z hybrid, by Spoon





Toyota Prius hybrid, by G Sport


----------



## StarHalo

(replacing lost posts)

Would you drive this as is, or is it just me?






Another Boss in another land; the aussie Ford Boss GS ute, featuring a supercharged version of the Mustang's 5.0, 428hp.


----------



## Monocrom

Once again . . . 

Just you, Bro. Just you

*AND*

Sweet! Modern-day El Camino. :huh:


----------



## StarHalo

Coming soon to a rear-view mirror near you; Ford Explorer- and Taurus-based Interceptors. I wager the Taurus will make a fantastic police cruiser..


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Coming soon to a rear-view mirror near you; Ford Explorer- and Taurus-based Interceptors. I wager the Taurus will make a fantastic police cruiser..



+

and you see a little sticker on the back of the Taurus saying..






that & BIG brakes = :sweat:


----------



## Tuikku

This might be a stupid question but:

http://www.loqu.com/top-10-most-popular-car-brands-in-the-usa/blogs/usacars-1271

I see there´s a lot of American car brands on the list, naturally! Toyota too, I understand Volkswagen also... But Honda at first place 
Any ideas why :thinking:

I´m not saying it to be a bad brand or anything else like that. All I know is that Honda is a minority brand in here and that list was a bit of a surprise to me.


----------



## BIGLOU

Cool photo Starhalo. My friend just got picked up by CHP as a mechanic he said that there are 700 Crown Vics waiting in Sacramento. He also told me that usually they retire the cruisers at 100k miles but since the budget is all messed up he has been seeing 120K,130K miles. I believe he also told me no more Bimmer bikes that he state gave the contract to Kawi. Also that the brass only gets the Chargers.

Since we are on the PD cars subject. Pasadena Police just got a new toy $280K 36,000 pound Lenco BearCat with a grant from US Dept. of Homeland Security. Can stop a .50 Cal. bullet cold. This you dont want to see in your rearview mirror. If you do get the hell out of the way. The only thing missing is a SF Hellfighter on top. Here is a link to more photos. http://sgvtribune.mycapture.com/mycapture/folder.asp?event=1061357


----------



## StarHalo

Tuikku said:


> Toyota too, I understand Volkswagen also... But Honda at first place
> Any ideas why :thinking:



Hondas are unbelievably reliable, if you look at any long-term reliability reports (like the US' _Consumer Reports_), you'll find it's pretty much a given most any Honda model will lead its particular class by a sound margin. Some Hondas made ten plus years ago have better reliability than current model year cars.

Here in the US, where you live determines which cars you'll see; in rural and poorer areas, it's mostly American cars, and as you move to wealthier areas, it turns mostly to Japanese cars.



BIGLOU said:


> Pasadena Police just got a new toy $280K 36,000 pound Lenco BearCat with a grant from US Dept. of Homeland Security.



Looks like it'd be a popular daily driver with the SUV set, lots of body kit possibilities there..


----------



## BIGLOU

Since we are on a Honda subject. Here is my 1978 Honda Civic CVCC grocery getter. Great gas mileage and is capable of speeds of 100 mph.


----------



## Tuikku

StarHalo said:


> Hondas are unbelievably reliable, if you look at any long-term reliability reports (like the US' _Consumer Reports_), you'll find it's pretty much a given most any Honda model will lead its particular class by a sound margin. Some Hondas made ten plus years ago have better reliability than current model year cars.
> 
> Here in the US, where you live determines which cars you'll see; in rural and poorer areas, it's mostly American cars, and as you move to wealthier areas, it turns mostly to Japanese cars.



Interesting, thanks! 

Honda´s are also here considered as reliable cars and usually are quite high in reports.
They are a bit cheaper than Toyotas here, but are far less respected 
I´m not even sure if it is in TOP10 in sales.

There´s one thing though I just figured out; rust.
In general japanese cars here are considered to rust faster than for example BMW, Audi, Volvo, MB and some others. Quite new Mazdas have bad reputation in here for rust, also early 2000 models of MB. 
Naturally some brands have huge differences between year models.

For big masses of buyers (USA and other) this is not a big deal, cars are relatively cheap to buy & keep compared to income.
Biggest problem I can think is heavy salting of roads in winter 
Really eats up my wife´s -97 Mazda like a horde of rats... Otherwise it runs pretty well for it´s mileage 


edit: I found a link
http://194.157.221.15/markkinointijarjestelma/taulujulkaisu/92_taulu_katso_uusi.asp?tjid=501&kieli=


----------



## StarHalo

Tuikku said:


> Biggest problem I can think is heavy salting of roads in winter http://194.157.221.15/markkinointijarjestelma/taulujulkaisu/92_taulu_katso_uusi.asp?tjid=501&kieli=



Ah, forgot about the weather - all the other brands you mentioned are almost exclusively all-wheel-drive, most Hondas are not. If I had to live in those conditions, I'd also prefer something AWD. 

In the California mountains, SUVs and Subaru WRXs are the most popular options. But there is no winter anywhere else in Southern California, the car we own now has only seen snow one time in the years we've owned it..


----------



## Monocrom

Had my 2009 Mazda6 V6 sSport trim since she was brand spanking new. Been almost 2 years now. No issues with rust.


----------



## Tuikku

StarHalo said:


> Ah, forgot about the weather - all the other brands you mentioned are almost exclusively all-wheel-drive, *most Hondas are not*. If I had to live in those conditions, I'd also prefer something AWD.



I could not find data about registered 4-wheel driven cars.
But on the most popular used car sales website theres 65´000 cars available and only under 10% of those to be sold are 4-wheel drives.

Oddly, _the most sold Honda here_ is Honda CR-V, ranking at place 8(!) with 2,4% of market share and they are 4x4 :laughing:

When I was driving in Austria and Switzerland, there were tons of 4x4 signs on cars 
I have driven a Subaru 4x4, would be nice on winter but it´s cheaper to buy and drive a 2-wheel drive :shrug:


It´s really interesting how in different countries different cars and car models are popular!


----------



## StarHalo

Tuikku said:


> Oddly, _the most sold Honda here_ is Honda CR-V, ranking at place 8(!) with 2,4% of market share and they are 4x4 :laughing:



That makes sense, all small SUVs are very popular here, I should know since I drive one 

In the county that Los Angeles is in, there are more cars than there are people. Only five entire states have more cars than that one county. It's definitely the place to be if you like cars..


----------



## StarHalo

A local car dealer in Cali; Orange County Lamborghini, the largest Lambo dealer in the world, and responsible for 10% of the manufacturer's sales (until it closed in '08, now everyone goes to the other Lambo dealer 10 miles away)


----------



## Monocrom

I always thought a dealership of that sort was always safe. The Uber rich know how to make money even in a recession. Hard to believe a Lambo dealership could shut down. Especially one that successful.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> I always thought a dealership of that sort was always safe. The Uber rich know how to make money even in a recession. Hard to believe a Lambo dealership could shut down. Especially one that successful.



The owner had himself a little clearance sale at the VW creditor's expense, and pocketed over eight million dollars. Last I heard he was starting his five-year sentence. Not as "Cali" as a cocaine conviction, but still quite a train wreck..


----------



## Monocrom

That certainly explains things. :thanks:


----------



## StarHalo

The top 25 vehicles sold in the US, August and year-to-date:


----------



## SmurfTacular

StarHalo said:


> A local car dealer in Cali; Orange County Lamborghini, the largest Lambo dealer in the world, and responsible for 10% of the manufacturer's sales (until it closed in '08, now everyone goes to the other Lambo dealer 10 miles away)



Ya, and that dealership is .7 miles away from my school.

Well actually .7 miles from my favorite parking spot at my school. I get Jack in the Box and park my 91 Toyota pickup next to the lambo's and eat my lunch 
seriously...


----------



## BIGLOU

1.8 million 3,153 pound 2010 Ferrari 599XX (5999 cc) 720 HP V12. Only 29 examples will be built in the next 2 years. 10 seconds faster on the Ferrari Test Track than the Enzo (On Full Racing Slicks). Read more at http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/aut...ges/1517/on-the-track-with-the-ferrari-599xx/


----------



## StarHalo

BIGLOU said:


> 1.8 million 3,153 pound 2010 Ferrari 599XX



You know it's fast when they remove the taillights to make room for more aerodynamics. Love the "ear spoilers" too..


----------



## StarHalo

What's the French word for "y'all"? (Peugeot Hoggar)


----------



## Monocrom

You have no clue how glad I am that that brand no longer sells cars in America. 

(Dude, that thing is just hideous.) :shakehead


----------



## orbital

+

This actual Bugatti Type39 raced in the 1926 Italian Grand Prix at Monza.
The fact it wasn't in a museum is one thing, but the English guy in the blue race suit absolutely drove it for all its worth,
drifting it out of corners at Road America over the weekend.






its a straight 8


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> This actual Bugatti Type39 raced in the 1926 Italian Grand Prix at Monza.



Very cool, I can't imagine all the work that must go into keeping it running, but it'd be worth it to get the authentic race experience from ages ago, sliding around on those skinny tires..


----------



## StarHalo

Still more Mustang seriousness; Drive your 2011 Shelby Mustang GT500 to the Shelby shop and ask for the Super Snake package, you'll get this back:






Thirty grand buys you the Ford Racing handling package, a short throw shifter, Shelby-made hood and wheels, a Borla exhaust, and a supercharged 427 engine producing *800 horsepower*.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Isn't that the exhaust?



StarHalo said:


> You know it's fast when they remove the taillights to make room for more aerodynamics. Love the "ear spoilers" too..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Still more Mustang seriousness; Drive your 2011 Shelby Mustang GT500 to the Shelby shop and ask for the Super Snake package, you'll get this back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thirty grand buys you the Ford Racing handling package, a short throw shifter, Shelby-made hood and wheels, a Borla exhaust, and a supercharged 427 engine producing *800 horsepower*.


 
:duh2::huh:oo:


----------



## StarHalo

FroggyTaco said:


> Isn't that the exhaust?



It's an air exhaust, not an engine exhaust - there are a pair of fans in the trunk that suck air up from the rear diffuser below and blow it out of those ports, which can actively increase downforce or reduce drag depending on cornering conditions. The car can basically suck itself into the road for better cornering, or blow the rear wake of air completely away from the car to make the rear more slippery/make the car faster.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Oh..it's that system..I read about that in my C&D. Didn't realize this was that car.


----------



## StarHalo

Get ready to see these everywhere; the final/official US version of the Fiat 500, with smoother fascias all around, 16" wheels, giant sunroof, and a turbo 1.4 liter engine.


----------



## Monocrom

American isn't England.

(Yeah, I saw the same episode of Top Gear. It was a bit creepy.)


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> American isn't England.



The Chrysler dealers that will get Fiat showrooms will be announced in October, and with lots of dealerships that have empty space formerly occupied by Saturn/Pontiac/Hummer/etc., plus the arrival of the 500 just as the last PT Cruisers are sold (at roughly the same price point) means we may not be far from that Top Gear skit..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> The Chrysler dealers that will get Fiat showrooms will be announced in October, and with lots of dealerships that have empty space formerly occupied by Saturn/Pontiac/Hummer/etc., plus the arrival of the 500 just as the last PT Cruisers are sold (at roughly the same price point) means we may not be far from that Top Gear skit..


 
They can have my sports sedan when they pry the steering wheel out of my cold, dead, hands . . . Or if they can catch me in those Fiats on an open highway. 

Mine does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, and has the handling to boot. What do those things do? 0-60 in 6.5 *days??*


----------



## Tuikku

Fiat :sigh:

Not a brand with very good reputation here either.
Fiat + electrics...

One thing I must say:
Some years ago, Fiat was making tractor by its own, before New Holland (Fiat + Ford).
They were far less bad compared to cars. Said to be even quite good bang for the buck in rough use.

Funnily, the old, retiring model was sold by words: "last model without electric this and that. Get them while they are here!". (it was more expensive, than newer one)
After a year or so I saw again an advertisement about Fiat´s _without_ those electric gadgets and something like They are back


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> What do those things do? 0-60 in 6.5 *days??*



It's a Fiat, it feels really fast as long as you don't actually race it against another car..



Monocrom said:


> Mine does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, and has the handling to boot.



Speaking of the 6, here's a sportback model photographed in New Jersey:






As to why a Cali-licensed version of a 6 not available in the US is in Jersey, and has just a single small exhaust - it's a _diesel_. Mazda's doing some testing of the 43 MPG model coming here in 2012..


----------



## Monocrom

Looks like Mazda is screwing with the 6. Glad I got mine last year.


----------



## StarHalo

Best-selling Porsche model of 2010:


----------



## emajnthis

My neighbor just bought a silver one a couple of months ago, the car is pug ugly but he loves it to death. He has to park it outside because his garage is full with a GT3 and his wife's Range Rover but despite that he nurtures it religiously. Still kind of surprised it's a best seller considering it's looks.


----------



## Monocrom

I saw one of those today, while hanging out with my friends. I was at a stoplight, when one drove past. At first I had no idea what it was. Possibly a new Audi? But then I remembered the episode of Top Gear when the Hampster and Captain Slow raced in one to see if they could get to a destination faster than a letter sent through the mail.

A Porsche sedan?? I don't care if it's popular. A four-door Porsche anything simply lacks soul. An SUV, a sedan . . . What's next; the Porsche minivan, the Porsche pick-up truck? :fail:


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> A Porsche sedan?? I don't care if it's popular. A four-door Porsche anything simply lacks soul. An SUV, a sedan . . .



But the quarter mile in under 12 seconds, faster around a track than a BMW M3 by a large margin, with an interior on par with a Bentley..

And the Cayenne is #2..


----------



## Monocrom

Ah, it's not about numbers. It's about soul. Tough to explain.

But I agree with you 100% about the Cayenne being #2. It's definitely #2 all the way . . . :toilet:


----------



## StarHalo

Citroen concept; I'm feeling better about the French..


----------



## Monocrom

Ah, so vulger . . .


----------



## Mjolnir

I personally don't find the Panamera ugly at all. It might not be as "visually stimulating" as the Porsches with only 2 doors and it isn't a Rapide, but it isn't the abomination that the Jeremy Clarkson made it out to be.


----------



## KLowD9x

To be reasonable, I already have a Volvo S60 so why not step up to the next best thing?






Of course it wouldn't be the Heico Sportiv edition but that is a sexy vehicle. An Executive S80 V8 in ice white would be the ride for me.

But, if I were going to go completely absurd daily driver (if I had the money):






Rolls Royce Ghost Limited Masonry (In white, of course)


----------



## emajnthis

Volvo was always one of those companies that has been severely under utilized. They have great motor and drivetrains but they get lost somewhere between Ford and Lincoln. With Ford axing Mercury, and hopefully scaling up Lincoln, i think Volvo may find a comfortable medium between the two. The best way to really bring Volvo forward would be to make all of their cars AWD, they have it right so far with making most of their vehicles turbocharged and the bigger ones with V8 options. They just need that extra edge to make them more viable when compared to similar Ford models.


----------



## KLowD9x

emajnthis said:


> Volvo was always one of those companies that has been severely under utilized. They have great motor and drivetrains but they get lost somewhere between Ford and Lincoln. With Ford axing Mercury, and hopefully scaling up Lincoln, i think Volvo may find a comfortable medium between the two. The best way to really bring Volvo forward would be to make all of their cars AWD, they have it right so far with making most of their vehicles turbocharged and the bigger ones with V8 options. They just need that extra edge to make them more viable when compared to similar Ford models.



Ford doesn't own Volvo now.

People can't take care of their FWD models now. AWD models are VERY picky about the tires and will quickly trash a bevel gear if not taken very well care of.

Most people don't need AWD anyways.


----------



## StarHalo

A bigger move up from an S60:


----------



## 65535

That flat black Panamera looks like something out of a twisted metal game, and I like it.

I agree it's not 911, but if you have to haul kids around and can't afford a Porsche AND a kid hauler it's a comfortable compromise.


----------



## StarHalo

65535 said:


> That flat black Panamera looks like something out of a twisted metal game, and I like it.
> 
> I agree it's not 911, but if you have to haul kids around and can't afford a Porsche AND a kid hauler it's a comfortable compromise.



The pictured model is a TechArt creation, so you can order an identical one.

And a Cayman and a daily driver would be cheaper, but the Panamera is much faster around a track than pretty much all the sub-$100 Porsches, including the base 911s.


----------



## Monocrom

KLowD9x said:


> Most people don't need AWD anyways.


 
I thought the same thing. But then . . . Last Winter, the first mild snow storm in NYC turned out to be the worst blizzard all Winter. An average 25 minute drive home took 3.5 hours for me to complete. A massive storm made worse by lazy jerks who couldn't be bothered to do their jobs properly at the work site, and at my apartment building. I was saved by a good Samaritan who happened to be outside with a snow shovel. (I now keep a telescoping, compact, snow shovel in my trunk.)

My ride was still new back then. All-season tires in good condition. FWD. 

I felt the way you do . . . up until last Winter.

But especially with popular models like the Dodge Charger which are either RWD or AWD. The latter is worth the extra bucks.


----------



## KLowD9x

StarHalo said:


> A bigger move up from an S60:
> 
> _AUDI_



Yeah, no.

Having worked on several VAG products (Including several Audi's), I can honestly say that I will never own one. You would think that a car packed full of German technology would be more reliable but they did something wrong.

I will keep my Swedes with Japanese technology (Denso/AW). They don't give me any hassles.


----------



## morelightnow

KLowD9x said:


> Yeah, no.
> 
> Having worked on several VAG products (Including several Audi's), I can honestly say that I will never own one. You would think that a car packed full of German technology would be more reliable but they did something wrong.
> 
> I will keep my Swedes with Japanese technology (Denso/AW). They don't give me any hassles.




I know exactly what you mean after working on Mercedes-Benz and Acura in the same building. I drive an Accord for many good reasons. I also had a chance to partake in training for several different manufacturers and Honda had the most organized and comprehensive learning program.


----------



## StarHalo

The new police cars (and the old):







Lots of "buts" with this one - the new RWD Caprice is the star in a straight line as long as you put E85 in it, but most cops won't pay for that or have it as an option. Plus the shifter is (for now) located on the center console and not the steering column, which is a dealbreaker for many municipalities. 

The Taurus is a track star in AWD with spinners, which virtually no police force would pay for. Without AWD, the unpopular FWD is the base option.

The Charger manages decently, but is more popular than the other two by a large margin based on looks alone.

The new unibody Explorer utility does so well that it nearly matches the new sedans, and surpasses some of the older ones..


----------



## StarHalo

Still more Mustang:






$65k at Shelby's place buys you the new GT350 with 525hp worth of supercharger and Borla exhaust, plus fully revised suspension and brakes, and the body kit. The suspension is key, since it has _the same quarter mile time as the Super Snake_, despite the huge hp difference. And there's a 624hp option..


----------



## Mjolnir

I watched some videos of the Citroen GT on youtube, and its V8 engine noise sounds completely weird for its exterior styling. It looks like it should have a high revving european engine (apparently it is in the video game Gran Turismo 5, where it actually has electric motors), but it actually has what sounds like an American V8 that gives it an obscene growl.


----------



## StarHalo

Mjolnir said:


> it actually has what sounds like an American V8 that gives it an obscene growl.



Makes sense if you think about it, it's really only the Italians' V8s that have the flat-plane crank high-pitched wail. Everybody else's V8s sound pretty much like ours..


----------



## StarHalo

Word has it that the next generation of Porsche 911 will have its interior based on the Panamera's:






And the reason we keep coming back to Porsches and Mustangs is because there are so many of them; a brief list of current Porsche models:






the list grows to 21 with the inclusion of the Sport Classic:


----------



## Monocrom

I like Porsche, but from even a few feet away, all their models basically look the same. :shrug:


----------



## StarHalo

Speaking of flat plane crank sound, here's a prime example from the passenger seat of a Ferrari F430 Scuderia 16M playing on the Autobahn; the vid starts out with some silent stills, and we join the Scud as it slowly merges onto the freeway, accelerates violently, and reality unwinds.. (The speedo is in KPH; the left/9 o'clock position is 75mph, the top/12 o'clock is 150mph, where the 16M cruises comfortably. The 4.3 liter V8 redlines at just over 8600 rpm.)

Turn up your speakers and click here to enjoy


----------



## Mjolnir

It sure would be nice to have both an F430 and an autobahn handy... Were they driving with the top down at 150 mph? 

I am not that big of a fan of some of the ferrari engines; they sometimes sound too mechanical and don't have enough "tone" to them. To me the enzo sounds sort of like a very loud food processor at higher rpms. I was slightly disappointed when I heard one in real life. I prefer the sound of the Pagani Zonda at higher revs.


----------



## StarHalo

Mjolnir said:


> It sure would be nice to have both an F430 and an autobahn handy... Were they driving with the top down at 150 mph?



Yup, the Scuderia is essentially a four-wheel sportbike as is, remove the top and you definitely get the full effect..



Monocrom said:


> I like Porsche, but from even a few feet away, all their models basically look the same. :shrug:



It's all in the details..

911 Targa 4






Cayman






911 GT3






Boxster Spyder


----------



## Mjolnir

That is the fun part about porsches... You can have an 80,000 dollar porsche that looks almost the same as a 200,000 dollar porsche; identifying which model is which requires knowing certain details like the number and placement of exhausts and side intakes (or you could read the badge on the back).


----------



## StarHalo

sshhh  

Leaked image of the new Lamborghini, the 2200 lb. Sesto Elemento ("Sixth Element")


----------



## StarHalo

The Lamborghini got the official reveal today at the Paris Auto Show; it's only an tech demonstrator platform, but stuffing the 570hp V10 all-wheel-drive drivetrain into a car that brings the total curb weight to less than a Mazda Miata would certainly be a demonstration..











You can see the intricate crossbrace in the cabin through the windshield in the image above; the car doesn't have a dashboard, it just has a brace that the steering column and displays are mounted on, the cockpit tubs are otherwise completely exposed:


----------



## Monocrom

Lambo should call it what it is.

*The Satan Mobile.*

_"Wanna go for a ride? I'll drive you straight to . . . the mall!" :devil:_


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> *The Satan Mobile.*



Funny you should put it that way, and not just because it's the Superleggera engine in a carbon fiber box with no sound deadening material and no provision for getting air into the cabin, but there's also how they brought it into the display area..


----------



## Monocrom

LOL !


----------



## skalomax

How in tarnation did they get that lambo to weigh 2200lbs with a V10 and AWD system, that itself is an engineering wonder.


----------



## StarHalo

skalomax said:


> How in tarnation did they get that lambo to weigh 2200lbs with a V10 and AWD system, that itself is an engineering wonder.



It's almost completely carbon fiber, if not entirely. Lambo hasn't mentioned what the frame is made of, but they most likely took the same approach as the Toyota/Lexus and made at least all the non-crush areas out of carbon. And the wheels and interior are all carbon. Still ~200 lbs heavier than a Lotus, but with twice the drive wheels and horsepower.

And speaking of Lotus, they had some reveals too; they're for the most part moving away from the stripped, super-light concept that has defined the company, with the exception of two familiar names:

2014 Elise






2014 Elan


----------



## StarHalo

Upcoming Audi enjoyment

R8 GT, featuring the Superleggera engine, and any color is also available in matte





TT RS, 340 hp, look out Porsche..


----------



## StarHalo

2012 Volkswagen Beetle, less feminine, more retro; inset headlight clusters, taller windshield rake, longer roofline, Porsche-esque front air dam.


----------



## addictedmatt

The rear reminds me of a pt cruiser:shrug: The Audi is sweet.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> 2012 Volkswagen Beetle, less feminine, more retro; inset headlight clusters, taller windshield rake, longer roofline, Porsche-esque front air dam.


 
Why go for a look that is neither cute nor cool? Look at the front end sagging forward like that. So sad. :shakehead


----------



## StarHalo

Hey kids


----------



## Acid87

*Alfa Romeo cars.*

Hi All I realise there is a car thread already in the Cafe but I hope this is unique enough to warrent a new thread.

Basically I want to know if you drive/have driven or want to drive an Alfa Romeo.

Alfa have a real love/hate reputation but personally I think they are a thing of beauty.

Currently Im driving a 2010 Alfa Romeo MiTo and I love it. Although pure Alfists (New word and I like it) may say "o your not Alfa you only Alfa post Fiat" but my love for the company is far far older than that. Alfa just ooozes sex appeal.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Alfa Romeo cars.*

We haven't had those in the US since it was the Spyder vs the first generation Miata. I will say that the Brera has the best back end of any hatchback ever..


----------



## Acid87

*Re: Alfa Romeo cars.*



StarHalo said:


> the Brera has the best back end of any hatchback ever..



The Brera is BELLISSIMO! It really is a car that suits both its sporty but you wouldnt think here comes a boy racer in a sports car. Its got the Alfa class. 
How common are Alfas over in the States?

We recently had a new Alfa released the Giulietta and its looks like the lovechild of a Brera and the 147. 

Good to see some Alfa love.


----------



## don.gwapo

*Re: Alfa Romeo cars.*

Man I like to drive the 8C spider. I want to hear that intoxicating exhaust note all day long.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Alfa Romeo cars.*



Acid87 said:


> How common are Alfas over in the States?



Extremely rare, since they stopped their very slim sales here in 1995. I live in car culture Southern California and see Maybachs, Bentleys, Lamborghinis, but no Alfas..

And the new Giulietta is pretty, but anything with the Giuliletta name should be rear-wheel drive..


----------



## Acid87

*Re: Alfa Romeo cars.*



StarHalo said:


> Extremely rare, since they stopped their very slim sales here in 1995. anything with the Giuliletta name should be rear-wheel drive..



That sucks Alfas are really lovely to drive.
The styling is totally different on the newer version so maybe it more a namesack than an updated version of the Giulietta.


----------



## StarHalo

Yeah, they're just recycling the name, which they already did with a ridiculously boxy model from the 80's. But who wouldn't want a new version of the original Giulietta..


----------



## StarHalo

Veyron? Too small, too last season (Bugatti 16C Galibier sedan)


----------



## don.gwapo

SSC, the would be fastest car in the world. But right now, veyron super sports has the record.


----------



## StarHalo

Pretty hot, and the girl is nice too; the new BMW 1-series M shows only a fender, and it's already working..


----------



## StarHalo

Motor Trend gets the first test of a Chevy Volt:






At least 25 miles of electric-only operation regardless of how you drive it (can reach 50), 30-40 mpg when running gas+electric (MT's overall mpg came to 126.7), gas+electric 0-60 is 8.7 seconds, electric-only is 8.8 seconds (same as a 4-cyl Malibu), 4 hour charge with the 220 volt kit, city-cycle drivers who never use the engine may change the oil every two years (the car will occasionally run the engine just for maintenance and requires gas once a year.) Pretty promising for a first plug-in attempt..


----------



## StarHalo

Not April Fools: The tiny Aston Martin Cygnet I mentioned a few pages back has been confirmed for production, the first copies will roll off the Warwickshire assembly line in 2011.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Not April Fools: The tiny Aston Martin Cygnet I mentioned a few pages back has been confirmed for production, the first copies will roll off the Warwickshire assembly line in 2011.



Do you think it's worth waiting for?


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Do you think it's worth waiting for?



It's worth a raised eyebrow, then spending the money (probably in the neighborhood of $35k) on a Lexus ES or something similarly reasonable.

But to be fair, this is the only thing smaller than an Evora that has "laid factor." It's perhaps the new holy grail of college student cars..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> . . . It's perhaps the new holy grail of college student cars..


 
Yeah . . . No. Just no.

You might get a smile from an eco-insane Neo-hippie chick. But that's all you're getting from her if you pull up in that Smart Car with a face-lift. 

You can try to impress her intellect. Meanwhile the guy in his tricked out GT Mustang is going to pull up, and impress her emotions. After all, girls love ponies.


----------



## mossyoak

Monocrom said:


> Yeah . . . No. Just no.
> 
> You might get a smile from an eco-insane Neo-hippie chick. But that's all you're getting from her if you pull up in that Smart Car with a face-lift.
> 
> You can try to impress her intellect. Meanwhile the guy in his tricked out GT Mustang is going to pull up, and impress her emotions. After all, girls love ponies.



If a girl your into is impressed by a mustang be sure to get yourself checked out after you spend the night with her n


----------



## Monocrom

mossyoak said:


> If a girl your into is impressed by a mustang be sure to get yourself checked out after you spend the night with her.


 
There are some girls who love the raw power of a Ford Mustang. Some of them like getting pinned to the seat as you apply the raw power.


----------



## mossyoak

Being impressed by the raw power of a mustang is like being impressed by the raw storage of a Subaru outback- there are many things more impressive.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> You can try to impress her intellect. Meanwhile the guy in his tricked out GT Mustang is going to pull up, and impress her emotions.



Ah, but as is always the case with Aston, the exterior is just the warm-up, taking a seat, things get more serious..







I'm not so averse to the Mustang though, that'd be an interesting comparison, the ladies' view of Cygnet vs Mustang..


----------



## Monocrom

mossyoak said:


> Being impressed by the raw power of a mustang is like being impressed by the raw storage of a Subaru outback- there are many things more impressive.


 
I mainly care about just the things the ladies find truly impressive. 

If they were impressed by hot cars, I'd drive one! Oh wait, I do! :thumbsup:


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Ah, but as is always the case with Aston, the exterior is just the warm-up, taking a seat, things get more serious..
> 
> 
> I'm not so averse to the Mustang though, that'd be an interesting comparison, the ladies' view of Cygnet vs Mustang..


 
Why is the glovebox shaped like a purse?

The ladies can pronounce "Mustang." That's one for Ford right there.


----------



## mossyoak

Monocrom said:


> Why is the glovebox shaped like a purse?
> 
> The ladies can pronounce "Mustang." That's one for Ford right there.



I try my best to date girls with more than a GED and if they can't pronounce Cygnet, we've got bigger problems


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Why is the glovebox shaped like a purse?



It's a matching briefcase.

This'd be easier if there were any women who wanted to read the cars thread..


----------



## Monocrom

mossyoak said:


> I try my best to date girls with more than a GED and if they can't pronounce Cygnet, we've got bigger problems


 
Smart girls present their own issues. I don't care about intelligence. At this point, I want someone with a kind heart and a sweet disposition. Those traits don't always go hand-in-hand with intelligence. If she has all three, great! But the other two are far more important to me.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> This'd be easier if there were any women who wanted to read the cars thread..


 
Maybe we can get it re-named, "Purses and Cars" thread?


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Maybe we can get it re-named, "Purses and Cars" thread?



"Expensive Cars and Available Doctors and Lawyers Driving/Discussing Them"

I'm being paged to surgery, we'll have to discuss this legal issue later..


----------



## don.gwapo

What about this topless screaming toyota.






It's the LFA roadster.


----------



## StarHalo

don.gwapo said:


> It's the LFA roadster.



It's gorgeous, but the price tag means you have to ask if it's more gorgeous than a Lambo Gallardo Superleggera, Ferrari 430 Scuderia/458, Pagani Zonda, etc.


----------



## StarHalo

More possibly-imported made-in-India truck uniqueness from Mahindra, the Bolero Attitude. Modest size and a diesel 4-cyl means 30/35mpg..


----------



## mossyoak

StarHalo said:


> More possibly-imported made-in-India truck uniqueness from Mahindra, the Bolero Attitude. Modest size and a diesel 4-cyl means 30/35mpg..



looks like a Merc G-wagen and jeep wrangler hooked up.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> . . . a diesel 4-cyl means 30/35mpg..



Translation: S...L...O...W...


----------



## SureAddicted

That's not a truck, this is a truck!





Comparison against a Hummer.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Translation: S...L...O...W...



No doubt, but a smallish lightweight body with a torquey-for-its-size engine is the same combo as the Willys Jeep and Top Gear's favorite, the Toyota Hilux. The Mahindra could go some places where a Hummer would merely sink or become wedged (not that the Hummer is fast either), better actual off-road use with WAY better mileage should definitely be intriguing to the off-road set..

(excluding SureAddicted; sheesh, that thing is an office building, you sure you're not American?)


----------



## SureAddicted

LOL, I forgot to mention that it's a Knight XV. It can withstand munitions fire for about 24 hrs.
All it needs is a turret.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76uGRqFavm0


----------



## Monocrom

Well, I'm sure James May will be excited by it.


----------



## StarHalo

More stick-it-to-the-oil-man Volt entertainment: A Motor Trend editor made a 38.4 mile trip from his home to West Hollywood and back. The engine kicked on at 34.1 miles, so the engine only ran for ~4 miles. Total gas used: 0.13 gallons. Total trip MPG: 295.

The editor drove the car 52 miles city cycle around Los Angeles, and averaged right around 400 MPG. 

At the conclusion of the testing, the car still had six gallons of gas in the tank, which by the editor's calculations would be good for roughly four months of LA driving.


----------



## Tuikku

SureAddicted said:


> That's not a truck, this is a truck!



Everything is so huge in that truck, so whats the matter with those windshield wipers


----------



## FroggyTaco

But how much would a Volt owner spend in a increased electrical bill.

We in southern california pay a baseline of 11.5c/Kwh and most of us are in the 22-33c/Kwh just using our normal day to day power. 

Charging this car would almost surely push people electrical rates into the 44-55c/Kwh levels which makes power extremely expensive from my perspective.

Travis



StarHalo said:


> More stick-it-to-the-oil-man Volt entertainment: A Motor Trend editor made a 38.4 mile trip from his home to West Hollywood and back. The engine kicked on at 34.1 miles, so the engine only ran for ~4 miles. Total gas used: 0.13 gallons. Total trip MPG: 295.
> 
> The editor drove the car 52 miles city cycle around Los Angeles, and averaged right around 400 MPG.
> 
> At the conclusion of the testing, the car still had six gallons of gas in the tank, which by the editor's calculations would be good for roughly four months of LA driving.


----------



## StarHalo

FroggyTaco said:


> But how much would a Volt owner spend in a increased electrical bill.



The Volt's 16 kWh battery uses about 9 kWh of its capacity, so at a non-California 15 cents/kWh, if you charged every single weekday (this assumes a daily commute of 30+ miles), you'd be looking at right around $30 added to your power bill. You would have traveled nearly 700 electric-only miles for $30.

You'd have to do the math using your commute route/distance and electric rate.


----------



## don.gwapo

SureAddicted said:


> LOL, I forgot to mention that it's a Knight XV. It can withstand munitions fire for about 24 hrs.
> All it needs is a turret.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76uGRqFavm0


 
Funny thing on the video. Why would you drive a fully armored truck on the road with your windows are half open. (0:40 & 0:50). . Nah, I know it's just a promotional video. .

How about this:











A mercedes GL suv converted into a truck. Now that one hell of a workmanship.


----------



## StarHalo

Ford is dumping their shares of Mazda, which a Japanese banking/trade firm will be picking up. "Zoom zoom" is independent now..


----------



## Monocrom

Thumbs down to the idiot executives at Ford for not raiding Mazda's goodies when they had the chance. Could you imagine a current model Taurus SHO with Mazda handling? I could! Sadly, that's all anyone can do from now on. Or how about a Ford Focus that's basically a Mazda3 under its skin? 

Imagine dating a Supermodel who's always in the mood . . . But all you want to do is cuddle! What the Hell was Ford thinking?!


----------



## don.gwapo

I think not all coz they just release the all new ford ranger and mazda bt-50 which they share the same flatform but the bad news is they will not bring it to the US which is sad. The ranger should be ford's best selling pick up here.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> What the Hell was Ford thinking?!



It's a money-saving move, they weren't doing much platform-sharing anyway, to Ford's detriment. 



don.gwapo said:


> The ranger should be ford's best selling pick up here.



I'm not sure what all the hubub about the new Ranger is about; it's 90% of the size of an F150 (which means it's bigger than some older F150s), so it's not compact. I'll admit that it certainly looks better than the F-series brick-with-chrome styling, but a real compact truck is like the aforementioned Mahindra models, it's not supposed to be bigger or heavier than a compact car..


----------



## Monocrom

Plenty of used Ford Rangers out there. Compact, and more affordable on the used Market.


----------



## StarHalo

They're multiplying: Foreground, Toyota Prius, background, new Prius wagon


----------



## Lite_me

StarHalo said:


> Ford is dumping their shares of Mazda, which a Japanese banking/trade firm will be picking up. "Zoom zoom" is independent now..


 E-gads! Does this mean us Ford workers are going to lose our employee discount?! I bought a CX-7 Grand Touring _just this week!_ I also have a 3 Hatchback. I'd have to go back to haggling again.  We love our Zoom-Zooms! 

This article here indicates things still seem to be kosher but who knows. Don't do it Henry!

A quick dirty pic...


----------



## Kremer

^^^^ love the curb stop in your garage. I've been thinking of something like that recently.


----------



## Kestrel

Stress_Test said:


> How 'bout some photos of something us poor working schmucks can afford!


Sorry, here's the best picture I could take of my '94 Toyota Corolla wagon:






Oh, and I got an average of 39.0 mpg for my recent 1800 mile driving trip into the Canadian Rockies. :nana:


----------



## Notsure Fire

Now that corolla, is A CAR


----------



## SureAddicted

HSV Clubsport E2, my kind of muscle car.


----------



## don.gwapo

Sweet, love that sinister look. It would be a Pontiac GTO 4 door here in the states but to bad, GM killed Pontiac.


----------



## StarHalo

don.gwapo said:


> Sweet, love that sinister look. It would be a Pontiac GTO 4 door here in the states but to bad, GM killed Pontiac.



That was sold as the Pontiac G8 GXP here, which was without question the one "American" car that came closest to a German performance sedan (and probably the closest thing to a true well-rounded sports car that Pontiac ever sold). It's not gone though - you'll be seeing it again soon as the Chevrolet Caprice Police Cruiser. 

And don't forget the Aussie version with the 427 engine:


----------



## SureAddicted

The G8 GXP is a Holden Commodore SS, with some changes made for the US market. I don't think HSV's were exported, only SS's to the US.


----------



## StarHalo

SureAddicted said:


> I don't think HSV's were exported, only SS's to the US.



Isn't it the same platform/engine?


----------



## Heavertron

StarHalo said:


> They're multiplying: Foreground, Toyota Prius, background, new Prius wagon



Not to my taste. You can get better mileage from a diesel VW Golf, but hey, I guess this is a battery friendly forum!


----------



## mossyoak

StarHalo said:


> That was sold as the Pontiac G8 GXP here, which was without question the one "American" car that came closest to a German performance sedan (and probably the closest thing to a true well-rounded sports car that Pontiac ever sold). It's not gone though - you'll be seeing it again soon as the Chevrolet Caprice Police Cruiser.



Did you forget about the Caddy CTS-V?


----------



## UnderTheWeepingMoon

StarHalo said:


> Isn't it the same platform/engine?



AFAIK the platform is the same. HSV models are powered by an LS3, while SS Commodores use an L98. The HSV has upgraded brakes, suspension, etc.

I, for one, would rather have an SS Commodore. The macho-to-the-extreme styling of the new HSVs is :green:.


----------



## StarHalo

Heavertron said:


> Not to my taste. You can get better mileage from a diesel VW Golf, but hey, I guess this is a battery friendly forum!



Better highway mileage, but the hybrids rule the roost city-wise. It's the same conclusion we've reached on the topic at least a couple times before; if you do most of your driving in the city, get a hybrid, if you do most of your driving on the highway, get a diesel. 



mossyoak said:


> Did you forget about the Caddy CTS-V?



Nope; while it'd technically be fair to compare it to German sedans, it's really a decidely American spin on the luxury sedan idea - the Germans carefully balance power and handling, while the Caddy has a brutally disproportionate engine. It's also quite a bit faster around a track than all the Germans, excepting the Porsche Panamera.


----------



## mossyoak

I see it as the American counterpart to a E63 AMG Benz. Way to many ponies. My CNC Instructor has one and only drives it on occasion. He said that even at the age of 45 he's not mature enough to drive it daily and he couldn't afford the tickets he would rack up.


----------



## StarHalo

mossyoak said:


> I see it as the American counterpart to a E63 AMG Benz.



That's true, the Vs and the rodded Benzes are sort of in their own little overpowered genre. I was thinking along the lines of the BMWs/Ms, Audis, the stock Benzes..


----------



## Mjolnir

The higher up AMG models are completely nuts; who needs an S series Mercedes with over 600 HP? They even have station wagon versions now for people who want to appear as if they have normal cars (or perhaps for utility...) when they are in fact driving supercharged V8 monsters. the BMWs are getting more respectable now since the M3 only has a 4 liter engine, while the c63 has a 6.2 liter V8.


----------



## StarHalo

Mjolnir said:


> the BMWs are getting more respectable now since the M3 only has a 4 liter engine



Right, but as noted above, the dead stock Mustang V8 essentially ties it around a track, so how much longer will that last..


----------



## Monocrom

Mjolnir said:


> The higher up AMG models are completely nuts; who needs an S series Mercedes with over 600 HP? They even have station wagon versions now for people who want to appear as if they have normal cars (or perhaps for utility...) when they are in fact driving supercharged V8 monsters. the BMWs are getting more respectable now since the M3 only has a 4 liter engine, while the c63 has a 6.2 liter V8.


 
It's not about need or respectability . . . It's all about the thrill that makes you feel alive as you blast through the track. 

You know that hot girl standing at the end of the bar is bad news. You see the wickedness in her eye as she gives you that sinister smile. Do you care? Hell no! . . . You walk over to the end of the bar anyway. :huh:


----------



## SureAddicted

StarHalo said:


> Isn't it the same platform/engine?



Ah, yes/no. It's like what AMG is to merc, HSV is the skunkworks department of Holden. The styling is different, rear lights are different, suspension is diff, engine is usually worked over, and carries a premium price tag.


----------



## BIGLOU

Aussies always have the sickest cars. I am a Japanese car lover but I liked the GTO when it came out as well as the G8. Then I heard it was from Oz HSV/Holden. Also heard Aussies get the Skyline and the Silvias. But here is the most evil car of them all. When I was a kid I thought it was some strange Mustang.

Mad Max's 1973 XB GT Ford Falcon Coupe Concorde Front End Supercharged 351 c.i.d. Cleveland V8.:rock:


----------



## StarHalo

SureAddicted said:


> It's like what AMG is to merc, HSV is the skunkworks department of Holden.



Ah, gotcha.


----------



## StarHalo

Would you be interested: 206 lb-ft torque, seats five, quicker to 40 than a Maxima, can turn on climate control using cell phone (so it's warm/cool when you get in), zero emission or sound, $349/mo.


----------



## Monocrom

It has the face of a little girl.

Knowing Nissan . . . Push-button start feature with no traditional back-up ignition. No thanks! I don't want to possibly get stranded because I accidentally put my cellphone too close to my key-fob, and now the car refuses to recognize it, and thus refuses to start.

BTW, did I mention the front end looks girlie as Malibu Barbie?


----------



## don.gwapo

Wish US Camry's looks like this:











This is Asian version which looks way better than the Camry's here.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Knowing Nissan . . . Push-button start feature with no traditional back-up ignition.



Hadn't heard of that problem, but yeah, it's a fob system. And it looks funny 'cause it's slippery; the loudest sounds at cruise are the tires of other cars nearby.. One significant point of simplification though: no transmission.



don.gwapo said:


> Wish US Camry's looks like this:



Classy, but it's probably narrower than the US Camry.

And the Avalon should look like this: 






(the Japan-only Toyota Century, still Toyota's [and Japan's] only production V12 engine)


----------



## StarHalo

Meanwhile, in Norway..


----------



## Mjolnir

Oh my, power oversteer in a saab...


----------



## Monocrom

Mjolnir said:


> Oh my, power oversteer in a saab...


 
That's nothing unusual. Ever want to go on an exciting ride for all the wrong reasons? Take a Saab out on a back road while it's raining.


----------



## StarHalo

Welcome To The Jungle







Guns N' Roses frontman Axl Rose has returned his leased Bentley Continental Flying Spur several months late and *FORTY THREE THOUSAND MILES* over the mileage limit. That brings the tab to just over $74,000. Well played sir.


----------



## Monocrom

Once again, nothing unusual. He's an irresponsible ******* with a raging ego who likes to pretend his career isn't in the toilet.


----------



## mossyoak

Cool, I had lunch today with my grandfather at The Honors Course today and a new flying spur parked next to my muddy old jeep and the driver got out and said "nice Cherokee how much lift you got?" . It was kind of a metaphor for the town that I live in (Chattanooga tn) country folk with money


----------



## StarHalo

Yes or no - Subaru Forester tS; Forester on the outside, STi on the inside..


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> Yes or no - Subaru Forester tS; Forester on the outside, STi on the inside..



I like it. A real SUV* with some huevos! :huh:




* I say real SUV because 98% of SUV owners do not do even moderate off-roading so the stature of this vehicle seems ideal for the pavement SUV types. Of course it will be too small for a lot of folks but let's not be nit picky about individual needs.


----------



## StarHalo

FroggyTaco said:


> I like it. A real SUV* with some huevos! :huh:



True, but to be honest, my first thought when I saw it was how it'd look dropped about three inches. I can't work with a high center of gravity, but an adult-sized STi would be entertaining..


----------



## StarHalo

October surprise: Consumer Reports' car reliability projections are in, and the big winners are a big shock.. Most reliable mid-size sedan is the Ford Fusion Hybrid:






Second place most reliable sedan is the Ford Fusion V6:






The usual champ Toyota Camry appears on the list down at #5. And the Camry V6 doesn't make the list at all, with a below average rating oo:

Looks like after forty years, quality actually is job one..


----------



## jellydonut

Those new EcoBoost V6 engines show that Ford has really 'gotten it'. Turbocharged, direct injection, great power and torque. It's almost as good as a diesel now. :nana: Such an awful shame no European Fords will have the V6, only the four-banger EcoBoosts will make their way here. :shakehead

On that note, if it ain't diesel and charged.. It ain't right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o6p1D28hVQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeCsaXlHaIc

:devil:


----------



## Tuikku

Kestrel said:


> Sorry, here's the best picture I could take of my '94 Toyota Corolla wagon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and I got an average of 39.0 mpg for my recent 1800 mile driving trip into the Canadian Rockies. :nana:



The question is: is it a petrol or a diesel 
My former diesel corolla was driven about the same when my brother sold it away. I believe now it is around 300K.
At 260, it still started _just_ like when I bought it, then driven 100K.
2.0 non-turbo diesel. Slow, loud, cold at winter. But somewhat tough car


----------



## StarHalo

2011 Chevrolet Camaro XM/Accessory package; is it just me or should the 21" wheels and body stripe have been offered on the new generation Camaro from the beginning?


----------



## Mjolnir

Those wheels make it look strangely like an Audi A5 from that side angle.


----------



## StarHalo

Looks like we lost the last ~300 posts to this thread, bummer. Moving on:

The return of the truly hot hatchback, the Audi RS3; five doors, five cylinders, and better performance numbers than a Corvette:


----------



## Mjolnir

That looks promising, but will we see it in the US anytime soon?


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Looks like we lost the last ~300 posts to this thread, bummer. Moving on:
> 
> The return of the truly hot hatchback, the Audi RS3; five doors, five cylinders, and better performance numbers than a Corvette:


 
Yeah, those lovely posts are gone. Oh well . . . It might be faster. But the Corvette is better-looking. Look at the face of that Audi. It's not so much ugly, as it is scared to death of the sadistic, psychotic, ax-murderer who is about to go to town on it. Why is the front end screaming in absolute terror?!?!


----------



## gswitter

Might be worth mortgaging the house for...


----------



## crossliner67

How about this one, guys? A $600 250mpg VW targeted for China, hehe! The population of China is over 1 billion so even w/ a profit of less than $100/unit they sure are going to make a killing. Ought to be safer than a bike too and looks much cooler, ahehe!

http://www.examiner.com/trendy-living-in-national/volkswagen-s-600-car-gets-258-mpg

http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-vw-1-liter-car.htm


----------



## Kremer

I want one of those! It would be perfect for my work commute, and all-weather unlike the scooter I currently desire.


----------



## StarHalo

gswitter said:


> Might be worth mortgaging the house for...



Already posted that one, but still agreed. No real way to hide those headers in your bottom pic..



crossliner67 said:


> How about this one, guys? A $600 250mpg VW targeted for China



That might be more fun with an electric motor, may as well eliminate using the gas station altogether..


----------



## Monocrom

gswitter said:


> Might be worth mortgaging the house for...



The nice thing with that brand is that you can buy one that's 10 years old for around $15,000 - $20,000; and it'll still look like a current one that came off the line last month.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> The nice thing with that brand is that you can buy one that's 10 years old for around $15,000 - $20,000; and it'll still look like a current one that came off the line last month.


 
I'd argue that the older ones look better, actually; the current slab-side design doesn't have anything on the 90's era _dat ***_ styling..


----------



## Flying Turtle

Just had to park next to this Italian sandwich (two Ferrari's with a Lambo in the middle) when I went out to lunch today. I wasn't the only person snapping pics. On the other side of me was a very nice old 911 whaletail. I really hated putting them all to shame.







Geoff


----------



## Monocrom

Looks like 3 members of a car club went out for lunch.

Here's an interesting take on what it's like to live with a vintage Ferrari:

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/PastVehicles/1984Ferrari308GTSiQuattrovalvole/


----------



## mjn

gswitter said:


> Might be worth mortgaging the house for...


 
I am SO with you man... I miss my 911. More than any other car I've owned...


----------



## mjn

I'll add a bit of eye candy to this thread...

Currently sitting right outside my office... '11 R8 Spyder V10.

Sorry about the crappy pics.. I used what I had handy at the time. This is when we first pulled it into the showroom last week..


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> I'd argue that the older ones look better, actually; the current slab-side design doesn't have anything on the 90's era _dat ***_ styling..



+

Hey wait!,... thought I was the only person to think the 993 was the best 911 body style,
I do a double take every time when one slides by

S.H, your knowledge of cars is vast.

quick note,..sometimes when there's a GT2 RSR team testing at Road America,
with the wind just right, and its the only engine note, 
the hair on the back of your neck stands up from the _*howl*_ of a well tuned racing flat 6 echoing through the hills & valleys


----------



## StarHalo

Flying Turtle said:


> Just had to park next to this Italian sandwich (two Ferrari's with a Lambo in the middle) when I went out to lunch today.



The good news is that they're all classics, the bad news is that only the one in the middle would stand a chance against a current V6 Mustang..



orbital said:


> sometimes when there's a GT2 RSR team testing at Road America,
> with the wind just right, and its the only engine note,
> the hair on the back of your neck stands up from the _*howl*_ of a well tuned racing flat 6 echoing through the hills & valleys


 
I'm more a fan of the Carrera GT, but you don't see those raced too often. It actually sounds similar to the aforementioned Audi R8; Audi knows what it takes to get one of those:


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> I'm more a fan of the Carrera GT, but you don't see those raced too often. It actually sounds similar to the aforementioned Audi R8; Audi knows what it takes to get one of those:..



+

Just thought of something~ 
when I said GT2, I meant to say the GT class for ALMS,
..not the street turbo Porsche GT2 (just so no one is confused)
Most turbo cars are rather quite.

*Anyway, didn't Walter Rohrl do alot of development on the Carrera GT?*


----------



## TONY M

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Hey wait!,... thought I was the only person to think the 993 was the best 911 body style,


 The 993 was the best looking of the 911's IMO, while the 996 was a botched boxter/911 hybrid. Not that I wouldn't like a 996 but it's perhaps my least favorite 911.

I just love that 996 Turbo above and I'm really not a Porsche person.


----------



## Mjolnir

Interestingly, I have never seen an Audi R8 of any kind "in the wild." I have seen ferraris, lamborghinis, 911 GT2s, dodge vipers, Ford GTs, Rolls Royces, and even a delorean, but never an Audi R8, V8 or V10. I wonder where they are hiding....


----------



## StarHalo

Mjolnir said:


> Interestingly, I have never seen an Audi R8 of any kind "in the wild."



You have to be looking directly at one to notice it, it won't stand out at all from other cars in traffic in your peripheral vision. I'd say the design is better looking and makes more sense in person than it does in pictures, and it's slightly larger than I'd assumed it..


----------



## narey

look at these cars ~~so .what do you guys think？


----------



## StarHalo

narey said:


> look at these cars ~~so .what do you guys think



Those are about 2,300 Nissans, including Infiniti EX, M, and and FX models that were bound for the United States, and Nissan lost about 3% of its value because of it..


----------



## Monocrom

I think way too many folks like having a sunroof. When you think about it, as a driver, it's a pretty useless feature. You don't even get to enjoy it much.


----------



## narey

yeap~Agree~but,woman likes the sunroof


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> I think way too many folks like having a sunroof. When you think about it, as a driver, it's a pretty useless feature. You don't even get to enjoy it much.


 


narey said:


> yeap~Agree~but,woman likes the sunroof



A must-have for Cali operations; no point in having California sun and weather without letting as much of it into the car as possible..


----------



## Monocrom

I'd melt. :sweat:


----------



## redaudi

i'll bite on the sunroof thing. 

I, as a DRIVER, not a motor vehicle operator, love having a sunroof. Those summer cruises, whipping through the woods, or cruising along the river, or just driving wherever, it's a much more pure feeling to have the sun hitting your head, and even more air flowing around you. It's like a grab at a convertible, but not having to deal with the soft top in the wonderful minnesota winter.


----------



## Monocrom

redaudi said:


> i'll bite on the sunroof thing.
> 
> I, as a DRIVER, not a motor vehicle operator, love having a sunroof. Those summer cruises, whipping through the woods, or cruising along the river, or just driving wherever, it's a much more pure feeling to have the sun hitting your head, and even more air flowing around you. It's like a grab at a convertible, but not having to deal with the soft top in the wonderful minnesota winter.


 
Good point about the soft-top. Might take another decade, but I see the technology on hard-top convertibles becoming less expensive. We'll be seeing models from Ford, Chevy, and Dodge being made available to the general public. Folks will be able to enjoy _true _open-air driving. No more worries about thieves or girls basically driving alone in rape-mobiles.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> rape-mobiles


----------



## Acid87

What does anyone think about the Alfa Romeo 4C? 
Personally I love alfas so might be a bit bias. The pic I seen was of what seemed to be satin paint. BEAUTIFUL!!!!

http://www.car-addicts.com/archive/geneva-2011-live-alfa-romeo-4c-concept

Steven


----------



## Mjolnir

StarHalo said:


> You have to be looking directly at one to notice it, it won't stand out at all from other cars in traffic in your peripheral vision. I'd say the design is better looking and makes more sense in person than it does in pictures, and it's slightly larger than I'd assumed it..


Trust me, if I was anywhere near an R8 I would have noticed. I suppose someone could mistake one for a TT, but I look at cars far too much to miss one (and far too much for my own good...).


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


>


 
Common term in self-defense circles. 

It refers to women, although generally young ones, who drive around in soft-top convertibles. Three things have to be in place. One, woman driving alone. Two, driving in a soft-top convertible. And three, the top is down. Any determined pervert can easily yank her out of her car, or jump in through the top. Thus the term "rape-mobile." Since that's usually what often follows next.

If you're a guy, you have to worry about some low-life slashing your soft-top if you park on a lonely street at night. Either as a prank, or to steal what's inside your ride. Leave the top down, and your seats might get slashed. Or, more likely, guys walk by and use your car as a trash can. If you're a woman, there's an extra disadvantage.


----------



## StarHalo

Acid87 said:


> What does anyone think about the Alfa Romeo 4C?



I posted that one on the day it was introduced; As much as I like the look of the satin finish, it's too ridiculously high-maintenance for a daily driver..



Mjolnir said:


> Trust me, if I was anywhere near an R8 I would have noticed.



You'll see what I mean when you see it, it's one of those cars that doesn't stand out unless you're looking right at it, an ideal cops-don't-notice car..



Monocrom said:


> Common term in self-defense circles.



Ah, gotcha.


----------



## Mjolnir

StarHalo said:


> You'll see what I mean when you see it, it's one of those cars that doesn't stand out unless you're looking right at it, an ideal cops-don't-notice car..




Oh, I plan to be looking right at it ... :devil:


----------



## TONY M

Acid87 said:


> What does anyone think about the Alfa Romeo 4C?
> Personally I love alfas so might be a bit bias. The pic I seen was of what seemed to be satin paint. BEAUTIFUL!!!!
> 
> http://www.car-addicts.com/archive/geneva-2011-live-alfa-romeo-4c-concept
> 
> Steven


When the Lotus Elise met the Ferrari California... Nice looking but seems familar.


----------



## Launch Mini

Mjolnir said:


> Interestingly, I have never seen an Audi R8 of any kind "in the wild." I have seen ferraris, lamborghinis, 911 GT2s, dodge vipers, Ford GTs, Rolls Royces, and even a delorean, but never an Audi R8, V8 or V10. I wonder where they are hiding....


 
There are a couple around my neck of the woods. Was lucky enough to be beside one at a stop light once. Poor fellow got to see my tail lights.  ( Not that I was racing, as once I hit the speed limit I backed off)


----------



## LukeA

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/23/videos-cadillac-documents-return-to-racing-with-cts-v-coupe-rac/

Video series showing the development and testing of the Cadillac CTS-V R racecar.


----------



## StarHalo

Bugatti Veyron Grand Sport (convertible) chassis number #001, $2.9 million. Now there are only 149 Grand Sports..


----------



## FroggyTaco

The best part is that it is parked next to several econoboxes!


----------



## LukeA

FroggyTaco said:


> The best part is that it is parked next to several econoboxes!


 
I'm pretty sure that's at the wrecking yard. All of the cars are damaged. The article along with that photo said the owner crashed to the car into the gates of his villa. Note the square damage shown in the second photo here.


----------



## Monocrom

Car enthusiasts should take turns beating the owner with an instrument of their choice.

Car crash at the track would be understandable. But who's the trust-fund baby who's so horribly inexperienced at driving that he crashed into the gates of his villa?!?!

I'm coming over, and I'm bringing a rubber hose as my choice of instrument.


----------



## orbital

+

I always get a huge laugh when people don't have *any* driving skills,
and have to _buy _performance..
_
*Call it Talent Envy*_ {{:nana:}}


----------



## FroggyTaco

LukeA said:


> I'm pretty sure that's at the wrecking yard. All of the cars are damaged. The article along with that photo said the owner crashed to the car into the gates of his villa. Note the square damage shown in the second photo here.


 
I noticed it was in a junkyard. I just personally found it amusing that regardless of it's awesomeness its ultimate resting place is no different than a humble automobile. Kinda reminds me of humans.


----------



## Monocrom

FroggyTaco said:


> I noticed it was in a junkyard. I just personally found it amusing that regardless of it's awesomeness its ultimate resting place is no different than a humble automobile. Kinda reminds me of humans.


 
If you mean two eyes, two ears, and all the same organs inside the torso, then yes; you are completely right. If you mean as a whole, if you mean in all the important ways that count; nope. I've run into adults who were indeed very different and much better (or worse) than other humans in the areas that matter most.


----------



## Mjolnir

I was never much of a veyron fan anyway... They seem to lack character to me, and on top of that they sound like tractors.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Monocrom said:


> If you mean two eyes, two ears, and all the same organs inside the torso, then yes; you are completely right. If you mean as a whole, if you mean in all the important ways that count; nope. I've run into adults who were indeed very different and much better (or worse) than other humans in the areas that matter most.



I was inferring more along the lines of no matter how tarted up with stuff(implants, clothes, accessories) people can or will try to do make themselves "nicer", in the end we all put our pants on the same way so to speak.


----------



## tino_ale

Mjolnir said:


> I was never much of a veyron fan anyway... They seem to lack character to me, and on top of that they sound like tractors.


 
That's funny you should mention the sound of the Veyron, it's exactly what I find unique about this car. I find the high pitch moskito sound of all the ferrari/lamborgigni really ugly. I think their sound is empty, metallic, ears hammering as opposed to the powerfull and "filled" sound of the Veyron but that's just my opinion.


----------



## mossyoak

Monocrom said:


> Car enthusiasts should take turns beating the owner with an instrument of their choice.
> 
> Car crash at the track would be understandable. But who's the trust-fund baby who's so horribly inexperienced at driving that he crashed into the gates of his villa?!?!
> 
> I'm coming over, and I'm bringing a rubber hose as my choice of instrument.



Actually, its those very "trust fund baby" types that make things like Veyrons possible. Lord knows it wasnt made for you.


----------



## Monocrom

mossyoak said:


> Actually, its those very "trust fund baby" types that make things like Veyrons possible. Lord knows it wasnt made for you.


 
*_Looks at latest bank statement*_

You sure about that?


----------



## mossyoak

Monocrom said:


> *_Looks at latest bank statement*_
> 
> You sure about that?


 
Go ahead then Mr big shot pick one up.


----------



## Monocrom

mossyoak said:


> Go ahead then Mr big shot pick one up.


 
Honestly, the styling is butt ugly.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Honestly, the styling is butt ugly.


 
The Grand Sport in all white is quite nice..







But if I had to spend that much money on cars, it'd be a Gumpert Apollo, a Ferrari 430 Scuderia, a Lambo Superleggera, maybe a few others with all the money left over..


----------



## Monocrom

In terms of style, I'm thinking 1965 Mako Shark Corvette (with a modern hight performance engine shoe-horned in, along with a few other tweaks.) :thumbsup:


----------



## LukeA

Z2SC, Z2RC, Z2WC

Those are the GM project codes for the U.S. Zeta platform sedan, ute, and sportwagon. The sedan is coming in 2013 as a 2014, the debuts of other two depend on the future price of gas. Expect an available ~5-6L pushrod V8.


----------



## StarHalo

Everything's in bloom in the springtime..


----------



## LukeA

This is the side of the 2012 base-model Impreza. It's not as wild as the concept, but it's definitely better than the current car. The current one does 20/27mpg, while the new one with the new engine is supposed to do 36mpg highway. That's a damn impressive number compared to the new Focus (base 38mpg hwy, SFE 40mpg)and even the new Elantra (40mpg hwy), considering that the Impreza will be driving an additional pair of differentials and wheels compared to the other two. I can't think of a time when the small car buyer has had nearly this many excellent cars, let alone non-POSes, to pick from.








I think there will be a marked improvement in the appearance of the WRX and STI. A lot of people seem to be jumping on the "it's bland" bandwagon, based a single, dimly lit image of a base model car in a color that old people will buy it in. There's a problem in that their perception of the current model's attractiveness is largely based on the tarted-up top-spec wide-body mean machine and not the base model blobby dog with a fat lip. I'm a Subaru fan but I do not think the Impreza is a good-looking car.



On another note, find an attractive 2011 Honda. Ha! Thought so. How can a car company pump out minger after minger? Do they even have a design department?


----------



## Monocrom

Honda Accord coupe looks nice, from the outside; especially with a rear spoiler. The inside looks bloated.


----------



## StarHalo

+1 for the Accord coupe, don't forget the CR-Z, and the Odyssey is well above-average for a minivan..


----------



## LukeA

Subaru has teased the Impreza XV, which is available in Australia and is kind of like a more committed Outback Sport. It's basically an Impreza wagon with a 1-inch suspension lift. It gives a good idea of that the Impreza hatch's silhouette will be. Like a mini Outback.


----------



## StarHalo

2011 Mazda 5; that's not a decal or pin striping across the side, those are actual fender creases. The Nagare/Furai concept lives on..


----------



## Monocrom

You have no idea how happy I am that the Mazda6 was completely redesigned in 2009, instead of 2010. 

My sweet V6 Mazda6 made it. Sadly, it's little cousin the 3; didn't.

I mean seriously, who the Hell over at Mazda is so brain-dead that they genuinely believe that a car which looks like a demented lunatic is going to translate into strong sales?!

First the 3, and now the 5 . . . Like I said, at least the 6 escaped the Joker mask surgery.


----------



## KentS

Spring is here. Flashlight time is fading away but the old sportcar is out from its winter rest:


----------



## StarHalo

2012 Chevrolet Camaro with the new *323 hp* V6, 45th Anniversary package:


----------



## Monocrom

I'll take the Camaro seriously when GM does.

Perhaps during the next redesign they'll get rid of the gun-slits and put in windows.


----------



## LukeA

Monocrom said:


> I'll take the Camaro seriously when GM does.
> 
> Perhaps during the next redesign they'll get rid of the gun-slits and put in windows.


 
I hope they get the weight of the Camaro down to the weight of the Mustang. Even with this more powerful V6, the 3800lb Camaro still has a lower power to weight ratio than the V6 Mustang.


----------



## Monocrom

LukeA said:


> I hope they get the weight of the Camaro down to the weight of the Mustang. Even with this more powerful V6, the 3800lb Camaro still has a lower power to weight ratio than the V6 Mustang.



Excellent point. Other than a weak as Hell engine, weight is the #1 killer of performance (and fun).


----------



## StarHalo

If you had to pick one; Jagchero or Continenchero?


----------



## Monocrom

The Lincoln . . . I can easily convert the back into a hot-tub big enough for me and at least two fine ladies. :twothumbs


----------



## don.gwapo

Monocrom said:


> The Lincoln . . . I can easily convert the back into a hot-tub big enough for me and at least two fine ladies. :twothumbs


 
Indeed. .


----------



## StarHalo

On EBay: 1987 Buick GNX, driven 10 miles, original window sticker:


----------



## Monocrom

I smell a rolled-back odometer.

A Classic though, that's for sure.


----------



## orbital

+

*911 GTS Cabriolet*,
verrry close to being a GT3 raptop

_..."hmm, how late should I take the left hand apex coming up"_


----------



## StarHalo

^ Engine's on the wrong side of the axle; I'd go for the Cayman R


----------



## orbital

+

was talkin' about ragtops ^

There is no car to have more race wins {endurance race win for that matter} 
than the 911.

Can't be all that bad..


----------



## StarHalo

Yes or no; Subaru WRX STi convertible:


----------



## addictedmatt

Noooooooooooo!


----------



## mossyoak

STi convertible is smart thinking, now there'll be now worries bout people throwing up inside on the interior. theyve got no excuse.


----------



## Monocrom

addictedmatt said:


> Noooooooooooo!


 
*+1,000,000,000*

Yup, 1 Billion. Who was the cross-eyed, brain damaged, son of a b**** who came up with that monstrosity? And why is he allowed to freely roam the Earth?!

:green:


----------



## LukeA

Monocrom said:


> *+1,000,000,000*
> 
> Yup, 1 Billion. Who was the cross-eyed, brain damaged, son of a b**** who came up with that monstrosity? And why is he allowed to freely roam the Earth?!
> 
> :green:


 
A dealer had a few of those made up, probably for a publicity stunt. 

I'm firmly in the "Kill it with fire" camp on this one.


----------



## LukeA

This is what a 4-cylinder car's engine bay should look like. 

Free-flowing intake
no unnecessary plastic panels
matching and conveniently located fluid containers
Oil filter location: best place in any car ever?


----------



## Mjolnir

I kind of like the STI convertible. I mean, I like STIs and I like convertibles, so why not both? It isn't THAT ugly,although the roll cage doesn't seem to fit especially with the giant rear wing...


----------



## Lite_me

LukeA said:


> This is what a 4-cylinder car's engine bay should look like.
> 
> Oil filter location: best place in any car ever?


But messy to change. :huh: Would hate to have to clean up all that that spills out and runs everywhere every time.


----------



## Monocrom

Mjolnir said:


> I kind of like the STI convertible. I mean, I like STIs and I like convertibles, so why not both? It isn't THAT ugly,although the roll cage doesn't seem to fit especially with the giant rear wing...


 
Honestly, I love pizza and I love steak. One day, I put them together . . . And for some reason the taste simply wasn't right. Just didn't work. Combined, two great tastes simply didn't taste good. Sometimes two great tastes don't go great together.


----------



## Burgess

I really enjoy this thread, and all the comments & discussions here.

:thumbsup:

Since there are so many knowledgeable & informed "car enthusiasts" present,
i would like (if i may) to slip in a question here . . . .



Is there ANY difference between GMC pickups, and Chevrolet pickups ?
(besides the identification badges)


In years past, WAS there any difference between them ? ? ?
(talkin' like the '50s or '60's)


How 'bout in the "bigger" sizes of trucks ? ? ?
(bigger than pickups)


This issue has always puzzled me.
Thank you to anyone/everyone who can possibly shed some light on it.

:thanks:
_


----------



## Monocrom

Burgess said:


> Since there are so many knowledgeable & informed "car enthusiasts" present,
> i would like (if i may) to slip in a question here . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Is there ANY difference between GMC pickups, and Chevrolet pickups ?
> (besides the identification badges) . . .


 
I can definitely answer this question . . . Answer is "no."

You _might _be able to get certain items standard in the GMC version of the same trucks which would have them as options, if they wore a Chevy badge. But those items tend to be minor. We're not talking about different engine options or something major such as that. So yeah, still "no." They're the same trucks. Basically, the badges and grill designs are the only differences.


----------



## StarHalo

Mjolnir said:


> It isn't THAT ugly,although the roll cage doesn't seem to fit especially with the giant rear wing...


 
Start with the primary blue exterior color, ditch the crossbar and get some wheels with some more panache, and it's definitely Cali-ready..



Burgess said:


> Is there ANY difference between GMC pickups, and Chevrolet pickups ?
> (besides the identification badges)



If I remember correctly, the current GMC models offer more/higher luxury options than their Chevy counterparts, otherwise there's no difference at all. Dunno about in the past..


----------



## LukeA

Burgess said:


> I really enjoy this thread, and all the comments & discussions here.
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> Since there are so many knowledgeable & informed "car enthusiasts" present,
> i would like (if i may) to slip in a question here . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Is there ANY difference between GMC pickups, and Chevrolet pickups ?
> (besides the identification badges)


I don't think there's a Denali-type package for Chevy trucks, but that would be the most major difference.


Burgess said:


> In years past, WAS there any difference between them ? ? ?
> (talkin' like the '50s or '60's)


When the C/K series debuted in 1960 the GMCs were the same as the Chevys.


Burgess said:


> How 'bout in the "bigger" sizes of trucks ? ? ?
> (bigger than pickups)


Same situation. Medium duty: TopKick=Kodiak (same story for their predecessors), and both brands had rebadged Isuzu N-series trucks. Heavy duty: Chevrolet Titan=GMC Astro 95.


----------



## LukeA

Lite_me said:


> But messy to change. :huh: Would hate to have to clean up all that that spills out and runs everywhere every time.


 
There looks to be a decently capacious tundish to contain whatever oil leaks out of the old filter. It can be seen in the full-size image here.


----------



## StarHalo

Today on EBay; The original M, the 1978 BMW M1, 1 of ~450, 2745 miles on the odo:


----------



## Mjolnir

It seems that auction was ended already; the Jalopnik link isn't valid anymore. I have been looking on ebay for miscellaneous exotic cars like this one just out of curiosity; I have seen a ferrari 250gt california spyder go for 3.2 million, as well as a Keonigsegg that did not sell (minimum bid was just under a million dollars I think) and a BMW 507 that did not sell, a Saleen S7 and some others. I sadly have never seen an M1 for sale on ebay, and it seems I just missed this one.


----------



## mossyoak

Lite_me said:


> But messy to change. :huh: Would hate to have to clean up all that that spills out and runs everywhere every time.


 
Actually that design is really smart, Gravity makes for less mess.


----------



## StarHalo

Mjolnir said:


> I have been looking on ebay for miscellaneous exotic cars like this one just out of curiosity


 
Get a copy of the Du Pont Registry at your local big magazine stand, that's where all the exotic cars are re-sold..


----------



## Mjolnir

StarHalo said:


> Get a copy of the Du Pont Registry at your local big magazine stand, that's where all the exotic cars are re-sold..



The main reason I like to look for these cars on ebay is the fact that most super expensive cars are sold in venues other than ebay, such as more prestigious auctions (than ebay).


----------



## StarHalo

GM's Chief Marketing Officer Joel Ewanick stated on Twitter this evening that if he could collect 100,000 responses, Chevy would green light a new El Camino. So if you'd like to pitch in, follow @JoelEwanick and leave a comment.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> GM's Chief Marketing Officer Joel Ewanick stated on Twitter this evening that if he could collect 100,000 responses, Chevy would green light a new El Camino. So if you'd like to pitch in, follow @JoelEwanick and leave a comment.


 
Wonder how long it'll take him to realize that the folks who want an El Camino are the ones least likely to tweet about it. 

Talk about not knowing your customer-base. :shakehead


----------



## FroggyTaco

It's probably due to some bet he made with his boss. Your right about the customer base not knowing/doing twitter. BUT, if you get 100K non El Camino nuts to say yes then you have more potential sales so that may give the bean counters some peace of mind.


----------



## Monocrom

Car company making business decisions based on a popular internet site made for folks who basically wish to be stalked . . . 

Anyone care to take bets on how long it'll be before Buick ends up as GM's _only _brand?
(And yes, there is a reason why Buick will be the last brand to die off.)


----------



## Mjolnir

Well Buick is apparently incredibly popular in China, which is probably why it still exists. I would like the see an El camino not for nostalgia purposes, but rather because I am fairly jealous of the absurdly powerful Utes that Australia gets and think it would be pretty cool to have them here in the US.


----------



## StarHalo

To be fair, Buick will also survive becase it has become the rip-off-Lexus brand; just as Oldsmobile became the rip-off-Toyota brand after it was too late. But if you're going to copy a car company, those are good ones to copy..


----------



## redaudi

actually, buick started rebranding european cars. the new regal is an opel. 

and a GOOD opel at that.


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> To be fair, Buick will also survive becase it has become the rip-off-Lexus brand; just as Oldsmobile became the rip-off-Toyota brand after it was too late. But if you're going to copy a car company, those are good ones to copy..


 
What? Toyota/Lexus is 2 years behind GM/Buick in marketing non-boring cars to non-old people. Lexus is playing catch-up.


----------



## Mjolnir

I am not the kind of person to buy a toyota or lexus unless they drastically change their entire philosophy/company direction (unless the new toyota FT86 concept ends up being as good as it could be, but then again there is going to be a subaru version of it as well that will probably be better). GM vehicles also don't really seem very appealing to me; if I was going to get an American car it would probably be a Ford, because the new mustangs do seem like a pretty good value and actually seem to be nice cars.

Buicks, toyotas, and lexuses are simply transportation, not "drivers cars." interestingly, I recently came across a list of cars that were "fun to drive" and also cheap (don't remember where, it might have been a newspaper), and for some reason one of the cars was a Corolla S with a 4 speed automatic transmission and under 140 hp... Seriously, how is that car going to be ANY fun to drive? Toyotas are about as far from sporty as you can get. Most of my dislike of Toyota and others like Buick is the fact that they don't offer manual transmissions AT ALL. Some other companies only offer manual transmissions with 4 cylinder options and not 6 cylinder options, which shows that they are viewing it as a cost saving option, not a sporty option.
I know for a fact that for the foreseeable future, however, the Mustang will be available with a manual transmission (and 300 HP). It is quite interesting that vehicles with manual transmissions in the US are a very small minority, while in Europe they are very much a majority. There seems to be something about the American psyche that isn't too fond of sporty cars in general, or a more "connected" driving experience.


----------



## StarHalo

100% valid points, and 100% irrelevant; Toyota's sales figures make it plain that people love their transportation appliances. Yet an appliance is a big improvement over a rebadged pile of Chevy sedan.

But for the record, I traded my Lexus for a Ford Fusion; better reliability rating.


----------



## redaudi

better 'PROJECTED' reliability. they have yet to prove themselves.


----------



## Mjolnir

The thing is for the most part cars nowadays are all pretty reliable; I remember reading in something like consumer reports (although that may not have been the source) in a reliability ranking that the difference between the most reliable and least reliable cars (the least reliable being something British if I remember correctly) was not all that large at all; the least reliable cars only had a few more incidents on average. Cars are much more dependable than they used to be.

That said, I am pretty impressed with how much Ford has managed to improve. I only wish we got more of their sporty cars here, namely the Focus RS. The more GTI/STI competitors the better as far as I am concerned.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> To be fair, Buick will also survive becase it has become the rip-off-Lexus brand; just as Oldsmobile became the rip-off-Toyota brand after it was too late. But if you're going to copy a car company, those are good ones to copy..



GM committed the single greatest sin you can in the automible industry, with regards to Oldsmobile. GM abandoned Oldsmobile's core customer base. The last of the Olds were very nice cars. I got to check out all three a few years back at the NY International Auto Show. Even considered purchasing either the Alero or Intrigue, before the brand died. GM tried to increase sales of Oldsmobile models by catering to younger buyers. Instead of doing it the right way by releasing one or two new models, they killed off all of the models that the brand's core customer base loved. 

As good-looking as the Alero, Intrigue, and Aurora were; they were not what the brand's established customer base wanted. Those models were not what the core customers wanted. When those customers thought of Oldsmobile, they thought of models such as the 88 or the Cutlass Supreme. That's what they thought of. When those new models failed to attract younger buyers to the brand, the brand died. 

Simply put, you don't ignore your core customer base. When you stop catering to them, they stop coming around. You want to attract younger buyers? Fine. Release one or two new models. But don't get rid of all the older ones that your customer base wants. From a business standpoint, that's just plain stupid. Oldsmobile died because a high-ranking GM executive forgot one of the most basic rules of running any company . . . Don't ignore or p!$$ off your core customer base.

Back before leasing existed, my dad bought an '81 Cutlass Supreme from a businessman who drove it for one year. That car lasted 16 years as our family vehicle. When I was old enough to drive it . . . Oh, it was like driving a luxury tank. Screw crumple zones. Back then, you not only survived; but so did your car. And the bumpers were *gasp* functional. They weren't there just for show. Just because folks naturally expect them to be there. They don't make them that way anymore. The idiot exec. at GM who killed Olds, deserves to be beaten with a rubber hose.


----------



## redaudi

Monocrom said:


> The idiot exec. at GM who killed Olds, deserves to be beaten with a *bumper from a cutlass supreme*


 

fixed that there for ya


----------



## Monocrom

LOL

I appreciate the assist. :thumbsup:


----------



## cm_mtb

The 4Sevens-sponsored M3 after One Lap:


----------



## Monocrom

I'm confused. Is it a Drift car, or does the driver need a lot more practice?


----------



## FroggyTaco

the clip title says having fun after the race so Ill assume neither!


----------



## Monocrom

FroggyTaco said:


> the clip title says having fun after the race so Ill assume neither!


 
Ooops! My mistake. Had a long day, didn't notice the title.


----------



## mossyoak

Thats David Chows (mr 4sevens) personal daily driver M3 btw.


----------



## cm_mtb

mossyoak said:


> Thats David Chows (mr 4sevens) personal daily driver M3 btw.



Cool, I didn't know that. He has good taste in cars


----------



## angelofwar

My two dream cars...almost had number two one time...now I'm married with children, and can't afford to spend my money on cars...that's why I'm on CPF...

Up First on my dream sheet...'66 Oldsmobile Toronado...one of the biggest stock engines evermade in a car...6.9L...600+ HP through the front wheels, and the first car to have "hide-away" headlights...you might recognize this from Stephen Kings "The Dark Half"...the black car the "Evil Half" drove, with "High Toned Son of A B*tch" written on the back...







#2...69 Thunderbird...the one I almost had was Midnight-Blue, Suicide Doors in the rear, the Cyclone Style front end...19'8" front to back...can you say BOAT!!! 429 Ford Thunder-jet...cars had class back then. I did have a 69 LTD that was a about as big as this when I lived in Italy...it was white and we called it Moby ****...trying to drive that thing on small Italian roads was quite a trip...more than once I had to pull over on a regular two lane, to let other cars coming in the opposite direction get by...LOL!


----------



## mossyoak

Where are you getting that 600+ HP figure for the Toronado?


----------



## angelofwar

Typo...400 HP... But the 6.9l is quite impressive itself


----------



## StarHalo

angelofwar said:


> one of the biggest stock engines evermade in a car...6.9L...


 
That's only 420 cubic inches; all but The Judge in my Old vs. New comparison have bigger engines, including the Buick GSX's monster 455..


----------



## angelofwar

The next few years of the Toronado did feature a 455...but, yeah, The Judge is a sweet ride too!


----------



## StarHalo

Coming to America: all 550 hp of the Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG wagon. Look out Caddy..


----------



## don.gwapo

The grocery & kid's hauler with a heart of a beast. .


----------



## cm_mtb

StarHalo said:


> Coming to America: all 550 hp of the Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG wagon. Look out Caddy..



What America needs is the M5 wagon... but we probably won't even get the next generation 3 series wagon.


----------



## StarHalo

cm_mtb said:


> What America needs is the M5 wagon... but we probably won't even get the next generation 3 series wagon.



None of the Ms have the performance numbers of the AMG or V wagons; maybe a Dinan variant..


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> Coming to America: all 550 hp of the Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG wagon. Look out Caddy..


 
That thing costs almost exactly twice as much as the CTS-V wagon. And IMO not quite half as pretty.

It's pretty awesome that Cadillac's first shot across the bow of ze Germans seems to have been so seriously.


----------



## LukeA

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/0...ng-four-cylinder-diesel-for-nissan-titan.html

That's a 2.8L I4 Cummins turbodiesel engine under the hood of a Nissan Titan, a mule for preparing that engine to go into production under the hood of the Titan's next generation. 

I think it's great. 

This is much more concrete my finger-crossing for Dodge (Ram) to have the good sense to put the already EPA-approved 3.0L VM Motori V6 (from the soon-to-be Grand Cherokee CRD) into the Dakota's replacement and/or the Ram 1500.

It also stands to reason that the next Frontier will also see this Cummins engine. The Frontier and the Titan share the same frame.

It's my opinion that nearly all gasoline V8 pickup trucks should have turbodiesel engines. Think about it. What do you want from a pickup truck's engine? Torque, especially low-end torque. V8s have good torque, turbodiesels have more, lower. What's the downside of a gas V8? Fuel economy. Modern turbodiesels do that excellently, too. The diesel Titan is expected to do 28mpg _combined_, and the VM Motori 2.8L (the smaller of 2 displacements) pushes a Wrangler Unlimited, possibly the least aerodynamic passenger vehicle on the market, to 32mpg highway. The only downsize is NVH, but that's not that much of an issue anymore, and if a pickup driver wanted a refined vehicle, a tall, square, heavy, stiff-riding, bouncy vehicle with a solid rear axle and leaf springs would be a pretty bizarre choice if you ask me.


----------



## Monocrom

LukeA said:


> It's my opinion that nearly all gasoline V8 pickup trucks should have turbodiesel engines. Think about it. What do you want from a pickup truck's engine? Torque, especially low-end torque. V8s have good torque, turbodiesels have more, lower. What's the downside of a gas V8? Fuel economy. Modern turbodiesels do that excellently, too. The diesel Titan is expected to do 28mpg _combined_, and the VM Motori 2.8L (the smaller of 2 displacements) pushes a Wrangler Unlimited, possibly the least aerodynamic passenger vehicle on the market, to 32mpg highway. The only downsize is NVH, but that's not that much of an issue anymore, and if a pickup driver wanted a refined vehicle, a tall, square, heavy, stiff-riding, bouncy vehicle with a solid rear axle and leaf springs would be a pretty bizarre choice if you ask me.


 
Excellent points. But keep in mind that common sense has been dead & buried for quite awhile. Some folks simply must have their Luxury Pick-Up Trucks.


----------



## SureAddicted

StarHalo said:


> None of the Ms have the performance numbers of the AMG or V wagons; maybe a Dinan variant..



There's a third player, the Audi RS6 wagon. It has more hp than the Merc and M5.


----------



## orbital

+

I absolutely agree with *LukeA* 100%

Torque gets it done,..period.
Direct injected, turbo diesels are simply smart


 what kind of motor wins the longest endurance races overall,
..turbo diesel

Paris Dakar
Le Mans
Sebring
ect..
ect..

Not only are they practical and efficient, they run & run & run


----------



## kwak

orbital said:


> +
> 
> I absolutely agree with *LukeA* 100%
> 
> Torque gets it done,..period.
> Direct injected, turbo diesels are simply smart
> 
> 
> what kind of motor wins the longest endurance races overall,
> ..turbo diesel
> 
> Paris Dakar
> Le Mans
> Sebring
> ect..
> ect..
> 
> Not only are they practical and efficient, they run & run & run


 
Absolutely no doubt diesels are efficient and reliable, i think your examples are a little slewed though as petrol cars have won those events 100 to 1 over diesels.

It's really only in the past 5 years or so that diesel competition cars have been competitive.

I absolutely love the torque of a decent diesel, only real downside is they're bloody heavy motors and there is no aural joy in driving them :thumbsdow


----------



## tino_ale

Not saying it's comparable or what but come over to Paris and smell the diesel smug, hear the crap sound they make and see the black cloud they drop at each acceleration.

BTW these remail true even with recent premium german cars.


----------



## StarHalo

Speaking of the Olds Toronado; This six-wheel, nine-door 1970 Toronado Jetway 707 by Miller-Meteor just sold on EBay for $3,000, sans engine. I would like it sans top..


----------



## orbital

kwak said:


> Absolutely no doubt diesels are efficient and reliable, i think your examples are a little slewed though as petrol cars have won those events 100 to 1 over diesels.
> 
> It's really only in the past 5 years or so that diesel competition cars have been competitive.
> 
> I absolutely love the torque of a decent diesel, only real downside is they're bloody heavy motors and there is no aural joy in driving them :thumbsdow



+

yes, the big diesel advancements have been in the last 5 years or so,
I didn't mean to try and pull some statement like they've been winning all along, no no no 
* they've been winning everything recently.*

the new diesels don't smoke like granddads truck from the 70s' either

I truly understand the point about driving joy w/ a high revving motor,
there's few things like running through the gears in a lighter car, this is true.


...but for a daily vehicle, I'll do a modern diesel


----------



## mossyoak

To all you saying that diesels do not sound good- clearly you have never heard the sound of a cummins 5.9 liter turbo diesel spooling up. Ill take that over a gas v8 anyday.


----------



## kwak

mossyoak said:


> To all you saying that diesels do not sound good- clearly you have never heard the sound of a cummins 5.9 liter turbo diesel spooling up. Ill take that over a gas v8 anyday.


 

Each to their own, if we all liked the same thing it'd be a very boring place to live.

Personally though i'd take any of these noises:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozntieZs8Bg

Over this any day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPoerECLY2s


Don't get me wrong i absolutely love diesels, i had a choice last week of driving a Honda S2000 or a Golf Tdi, i took the Tdi straight away.
They really need to work at getting diesel engine weights down though, and IMO even the best sounding diesel engine does not make the hairs on my neck stand on end like a decent V8 noise.


----------



## orbital

kwak said:


> .....
> 
> Personally though i'd take any of these noises:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozntieZs8Bg
> 
> ....



+

*Well duh..*
Nothing will top Groupe B cars,,, ever!!

Those engines were built to last hours, at most.

=Thanks for the link=}


----------



## kwak

orbital said:


> +
> 
> *Well duh..*
> Nothing will top Groupe B cars,,, ever!!
> 
> Those engines were built to last hours, at most.
> 
> =Thanks for the link=}


 
Well unless you could invent a race series that took the cars WRC considered too powerful, stripped the weight down and made them even more powerful.

Ahhhhhhhh that'll be rallycross then 

A LOT of folklore about the cars in rallycross, depending on who you speak to though it's generally thought the 2 most powerful cars were Will Gollop's 6R4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLp8TZ5Isec

Or
John Greasley 's Porsche 953
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osbkgq8dQts

As i say there is a lot of folklore and hearsay but both cars were rumoured to put out just over 900bhp.
I have been unable to find any evidence that they were putting out this power in race trim though, as it's generally considered that much over 750bhp is pretty much undrivable even by these legends.

Many years ago i was staying in hotel in France, at night i went down to the bar and found many photos and pictures of GroupB Peugeots of the mid 80's.
I asked the hotel owner/bar man about them and he declared he used to be a mechanic for Peugeot sport back then.
As you can imagine a night of a million and one questions came about :wave:

One thing i had to ask about was a rumour i heard that when Vatanen joined Peugeot he had requested the T16 be detuned as he though at full power it was undrivable on some stages.
I didn't get a straight answer but by the guys smile i'm pretty sure it's true.

Oddly enough at car shows, race events etc i've bumped into Vatanen twice (ok ok he's a massive hero of mine so i actively hunted hiom down ) i've asked him once about the rumour and he just smiled and said "what sort of racing driver asks for less power" :laughing:

Still it kinda begs the question, if it is true and guy of Vatanen's immense skill and driving ability are struggling to handle a 500bhp T16, how the hell could guys like Matti Alamäki handle the exact same cars de-restricted and tuned to full potential? 

Not really apples for apples as rallycross course have very few trees 1m off line, but still.


----------



## LukeA

I don't believe for a second that those cars were pushing anywhere near 300 hp/L in the mid-eighties.


----------



## kwak

LukeA said:


> I don't believe for a second that those cars were pushing anywhere near 300 hp/L in the mid-eighties.


 
I'm guessing your not a F1 fan either then.
As the mid 80's F1 cars were putting out anything up to 1300bhp in qualifying (engine grenade) form.
That was from 1.5 litres.

Race trim would be around 600bhp depending on the year, car, track etc.

It's actually more than 300bhp/L as well, as Will Gollops 6R4 was 2.3 Bi-turbo.
So if the rumours are to be believed and he was seeing 900bhp in grenade mode we're talking over 400bhp/L.

That's difficult to prove though as it's only really hearsay.
The is absolutely no doubt at all the were running at LEAST 700bhp in race configuration, that's still over 300bhp/L

Welcome to the wonderful world of forced induction my friend


----------



## StarHalo

Anything's possible with turbos the size of spare tires; if you're in final gear and you floor the accelerator at low RPMs, nothing happens, but as long as you keep the engine on the boil, there's some ridiculous horsepower..


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> Anything's possible with turbos the size of spare tires; if you're in final gear and you floor the accelerator at low RPMs, nothing happens, but as long as you keep the engine on the boil, there's some ridiculous horsepower..


 

Absolutely and there's absolutely no doubt at all these were all laggy monsters.
We're talking 450bhp coming in over a 1000rpm band here.

Sort of makes what the "drivers" today are doing in F1 look a bit well gay really.
What with traction, stability control, ABS and a torque curve smoother than a babies bottom.

Imagine driving a 900bhp F1 car from the 80's in the rain on a circuit like Monaco with zero run off on most corners with 450bhp arriving lagged, delayed and within a 1000rpm band.
Not only did they need throttle control of epic proportions, they'd actually need to read the future and guess within cm's where the powerband would kick in on corner exit.

Those were the days


----------



## LukeA

kwak said:


> I'm guessing your not a F1 fan either then.
> As the mid 80's F1 cars were putting out anything up to 1300bhp in qualifying (engine grenade) form.
> That was from 1.5 litres.
> 
> Race trim would be around 600bhp depending on the year, car, track etc.
> 
> It's actually more than 300bhp/L as well, as Will Gollops 6R4 was 2.3 Bi-turbo.
> So if the rumours are to be believed and he was seeing 900bhp in grenade mode we're talking over 400bhp/L.
> 
> That's difficult to prove though as it's only really hearsay.
> The is absolutely no doubt at all the were running at LEAST 700bhp in race configuration, that's still over 300bhp/L
> 
> Welcome to the wonderful world of forced induction my friend


 
F1 is one thing, with their 60+psi boost pressures and comically tiny V8 pistons (at the time), but hearsay is still bullshit.


----------



## LukeA

kwak said:


> Absolutely and there's absolutely no doubt at all these were all laggy monsters.
> We're talking 450bhp coming in over a 1000rpm band here.
> 
> Sort of makes what the "drivers" today are doing in F1 look a bit well gay really.
> What with traction, stability control, ABS and a torque curve smoother than a babies bottom.
> 
> Imagine driving a 900bhp F1 car from the 80's in the rain on a circuit like Monaco with zero run off on most corners with 450bhp arriving lagged, delayed and within a 1000rpm band.
> Not only did they need throttle control of epic proportions, they'd actually need to read the future and guess within cm's where the powerband would kick in on corner exit.
> 
> Those were the days


 
I am with you on this 100%. To see Prost or Senna work the pedals with that massive turbo lag is something that today's F1 can't come close to matching. 

On a little different note, I am pretty sure that KERS and the new engines in 2013 will offer more passing than there is now, but I still don't think F1's passing then will be as satisfying as passing in a series like V8 Supercar is, where it's more driver-against-driver and less car-against-car (driver-adjustable aero, traction control, paddle-shifted automatics, KERS go-fast button, etc).


----------



## kwak

LukeA said:


> F1 is one thing, with their 60+psi boost pressures and comically tiny V8 pistons (at the time), but hearsay is still bullshit.


 
I agree, i only added the hearsay to put some context into the numbers.

Hearsay aside there is absolutely no doubt that the likes of Will Gollop, John Greasley etc were running 700bhp+ in race trim at those rallycross meets in the mid 80's.
As i say these were groupB cars that were taken, de-restricted then tuned (or in Gollops case turbo'd) to within a few miles of their lifes.



LukeA said:


> I am with you on this 100%. To see Prost or Senna work the pedals with that massive turbo lag is something that today's F1 can't come close to matching.
> 
> On a little different note, I am pretty sure that KERS and the new engines in 2013 will offer more passing than there is now, but I still don't think F1's passing then will be as satisfying as passing in a series like V8 Supercar is, where it's more driver-against-driver and less car-against-car (driver-adjustable aero, traction control, paddle-shifted automatics, KERS go-fast button, etc).


 
To be honest i keep watching the odd F1 race, as a Brit i feel i should be more interested than i am seeming as we've had 2 world champions recently.
I just can't seem to enjoy it though, the drivers seem to be all the same with their corporate BS attitude, the cars are ECU's on wheels and everything just seems fake with no real people.
Don't get me wrong i think there are some amazingly talented drivers in there, it's just all so sterile.

Did you here about that old git ecclestone wanting to spray the tracks with water to simulate rain :sick2:
That roughly sums it up for me now, it's more simulation than stimulation.


Look back the say James Hunt, or in the 70's Jackie Stewart before then and you had real characters you could shout for, now they all seem the same.

So i've basically dropped F1 now, it's MotoGP, WSB, WRC, BTCC and rallycross for me now.
I'll watch anything with a motor, but they're the ones i record, or in the case of MotoGP (much to me Mrs annoyance) stay in for :thumbsup:


----------



## LukeA

kwak said:


> To be honest i keep watching the odd F1 race, as a Brit i feel i should be more interested than i am seeming as we've had 2 world champions recently.
> I just can't seem to enjoy it though, the drivers seem to be all the same with their corporate BS attitude, the cars are ECU's on wheels and everything just seems fake with no real people.
> Don't get me wrong i think there are some amazingly talented drivers in there, it's just all so sterile.
> 
> Did you here about that old git ecclestone wanting to spray the tracks with water to simulate rain :sick2:
> That roughly sums it up for me now, it's more simulation than stimulation



With the amount of telemetry data F1 cars produce, if they wanted to, they could eliminate drivers entirely and have autonomous cars. 

I think an allegory of modern F1 is Yas Marina Circuit. Sure it's a great technical achievement, it's beautiful (despite having no plant life), but watching a race on it is like watching paint dry. There's no drama. A car can run off track for miles and come back without even losing a position, let alone crashing or getting stuck in a gravel pit. There's no dirt, no close calls, no real perception of speed or emotion. It's what's wrong with both the circuit and the series. They're both so optimized and perfect that they're ruined.


----------



## kwak

LukeA said:


> With the amount of telemetry data F1 cars produce, if they wanted to, they could eliminate drivers entirely and have autonomous cars.
> 
> I think an allegory of modern F1 is Yas Marina Circuit. Sure it's a great technical achievement, it's beautiful (despite having no plant life), but watching a race on it is like watching paint dry. There's no drama. A car can run off track for miles and come back without even losing a position, let alone crashing or getting stuck in a gravel pit. There's no dirt, no close calls, no real perception of speed or emotion. It's what's wrong with both the circuit and the series. They're both so optimized and perfect that they're ruined.


 

I know exactly what you mean.

The crazy thing is, you'd think with these "safe" tracks there would be more risks taken, especially when over taking, as if you run to wide the consequences are losing a few seconds a lap instead of crashing out the race.
Instead the races are even more boring than the old days, on tracks like the Nürburgring where a mistake was punished by a lengthy stay in hospital at best, death at worst.

As a racer of both motorbikes and cars i can appreciate the need for having a safe track.
End of the day though i 100% realise and accept the risks involved, be it riding on the Nürburgring, IOM TT etc, racing cars at Donington, or even rallying through the forests of Kielder, they're all deadly if i make a mistake at the wrong spot, but i still did them.
If i'm honest the danger even added to the thrills.

No one wants to go back to the loss of life we saw back years ago, but still there NEEDS to be some element of enjoyment and overtaking in F1.
Many folks say "just off traction control" problem is, with modern EMS electronics they're into absolutely every aspect of the car.
As the EMS controls the ignition and injection it'd be too easy to write a code that's hidden away in the depths of the software that controls wheelspin.

To do without traction control, you'd either need a sealed EMS supplied by the organisers (but then each team would need to tune for fuelling and timing advance, therefore rendering and seal useless) or just go back to carbs.


----------



## LukeA

kwak said:


> I know exactly what you mean.
> 
> The crazy thing is, you'd think with these "safe" tracks there would be more risks taken, especially when over taking, as if you run to wide the consequences are losing a few seconds a lap instead of crashing out the race.
> Instead the races are even more boring than the old days, on tracks like the Nürburgring where a mistake was punished by a lengthy stay in hospital at best, death at worst.



I will give Jensen Button some credit. He has the balls to pass on the outside sometimes. 



kwak said:


> As a racer of both motorbikes and cars i can appreciate the need for having a safe track.
> End of the day though i 100% realise and accept the risks involved, be it riding on the Nürburgring, IOM TT etc, racing cars at Donington, or even rallying through the forests of Kielder, they're all deadly if i make a mistake at the wrong spot, but i still did them.
> If i'm honest the danger even added to the thrills.


Thrill from danger or exploration is one of the defining and inexorable qualities that make us human. It's what first pushed us out of our warm, dry caves into the dark unknown. It's why if NASA announced tomorrow that they were fielding candidates for a mission to Mars with a 50% likelihood of survival, they'd still have educated, qualified people lined up out the door to sign up.

As applying to racing, Steve McQueen said it well in the film Le Mans: "When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

That said, rallying and (especially) IOM TT will remain dangerous for a very, very long time.



kwak said:


> No one wants to go back to the loss of life we saw back years ago, but still there NEEDS to be some element of enjoyment and overtaking in F1.
> Many folks say "just off traction control" problem is, with modern EMS electronics they're into absolutely every aspect of the car.
> As the EMS controls the ignition and injection it'd be too easy to write a code that's hidden away in the depths of the software that controls wheelspin.
> 
> To do without traction control, you'd either need a sealed EMS supplied by the organisers (but then each team would need to tune for fuelling and timing advance, therefore rendering and seal useless) or just go back to carbs.



In all cars today, both road cars and race cars, we're pretty well stuck with electronic aids. They almost always make the cars more efficient and safe, and almost always make the cars less exciting in the process.


----------



## orbital

+

Right On! Some good racing discussion

Regarding 300hp/L in the eighties;
I was at Pikes Peak in 1989 with 2 other buddies,
we got there late and only able to hike up about 1/2 mile from the start line, still asphalt section.

The 'Unlimited' class including the Peugeot 405, was so unbelievably fast, it was truly startling..
easily 300hp/L {stratospheric turbo boost}


----------



## LukeA

Maybe Bernie E. reads this thread? Monaco was a race run the way races should be run, with passing, crashes, and wild strategies, despite Vettel winning again.


----------



## don.gwapo

Poor supercars!





Ferrari 458 Italia & Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera









Aston Martin V12 Vantage





Porsche 911 GT3 RS

These supercars have been flooded on a basement parking in a known tourist attraction. 

Some sports & luxury cars has also been flooded not pictured here.

But the Mercedes-Benz G Wagen beside the Lamborghini sure is survive the flooding without a problem.


----------



## alfa

The yellow wheels are....orrible!:sick2:


----------



## StarHalo

I read about that flood; what stands out to me most is the selection of cars - most supercar collections seem random and illogical, but whoever this guy is has excellent taste. It's just a shame he didn't put a bit more money into storage..


----------



## Monocrom

alfa said:


> The yellow wheels are....orrible!:sick2:


 
Indeed! For a second there, I thought that was a Dept. of Motor Vehicle boot on that car.

Also . . . 

"On tonight's episode of Top Gear James May screws up like never before. Richard Hammond is trapped in a lime green Porsche. And I head to the Bar."


----------



## StarHalo

Yes or no? VWVortex.com, a VW enthusiast site, got sent an early copy of the new Beetle for tinkering, and the result is the world's first modded 2012 Beetle:


----------



## Monocrom

Yes.

But only because for some reason I can't explain, I looked at the pics and liked it immediately.

Problem is, a Beetle is a cute car mainly for young women who want something cute. This new one is a bit more aggressive. Aggressive & Cute go together about as well as peanut butter and motor oil. While I like the look, I doubt that many others will also.

*Edit:*

Oh! Anyone else recognize that front-end from a certain classic car? No hints from me.

Still not sure why I like the back-end though.


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> Yes or no? VWVortex.com, a VW enthusiast site, got sent an early copy of the new Beetle for tinkering, and the result is the world's first modded 2012 Beetle:



Absolutely no interest in what colour the wheels are, what's the power/weight specs?
FWD, RWD or 4x4?


----------



## StarHalo

kwak said:


> what's the power/weight specs? FWD, RWD or 4x4?


 
It's a rebodied GTI; an intake and exhaust for a GTI were bolted directly to this copy.



Monocrom said:


> Oh! Anyone else recognize that front-end from a certain classic car? No hints from me.
> 
> Still not sure why I like the back-end though.



When I squint, all I see is an early Impreza..

The back end looks like a cross between an Audi and a Porsche, which is essentially what it is. And it has haunches, something that's missing from the current Porsches..


----------



## gswitter

I actually like the wheels/stripes combo.

I might drive it.


----------



## Lite_me

I like it. It might be a stretch, but it reminds me of a Willys Coupe.




[/URL] [/IMG]


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> It's a rebodied GTI; an intake and exhaust for a GTI were bolted directly to this copy.


 
Too heavy and the wrong wheel drive then.


----------



## vali

FYI, 24h LeMans is running right now.


----------



## LukeA

vali said:


> FYI, 24h LeMans is running right now.


 
http://stream.speedtv.com/corvette


----------



## stevep

The in car live steaming is really cool. The Corvette seems really fast,until an LMP flies by.
Thanks for the link.


----------



## LukeA

stevep said:


> The in car live steaming is really cool. The Corvette seems really fast,until an LMP flies by.
> Thanks for the link.


 
I'm glad you like it!

The TV feed is active again as of an hour ago. It was blacked out from 3:30-8:00(EDT) because the coverage was on TV.


----------



## LukeA

Today's F1 race was definitely the best of the season, maybe one of the best regular season races in the series's history. The last five laps were perfect.


----------



## Mjolnir

The annual Ferrari Concorso held by the Ferrari club of America (new england division) is going to be this sunday, so I will try to post some pictures if I go (which I intend to) like I did a few years ago. Apparently there is going to be an original Ferrari 250 GTO present as well as 1 (possibly 2) 599 GTOs. The show this year is also going to be bigger than previously, and they are inviting all italian exotics, not just ferris, so there will probably be a fair number of lamborghinis as well.


----------



## LukeA

All I have to say about this is "sign me up."


----------



## mossyoak

Specs? It looks like and equinox and avalanche got together and tried to make a raptor. 



LukeA said:


> All I have to say about this is "sign me up."


----------



## LukeA

mossyoak said:


> Specs? It looks like and equinox and avalanche got together and tried to make a raptor.


 
It's a concept for the next world Colorado. The sheetmetal is almost certainly what the actual version will have. A 2.8L turbodiesel will be available under the hood. The plastic windows, dual winches, 6-point harnesses, racing buckets, massive knobby tires, plastic bed bars, in-bed spare tire, and light bar probably won't see the light of day. I don't know if there are plans to bring this truck to the U.S.


----------



## Mjolnir

In a way it sort of reminds me of the modified Toyota Hilux they used on Top Gear to travel to the North pole.


----------



## orbital

+

A few things that caught my eye today at the _*June Sprints..*_









^^ I met the guy w/ this 'flawless '67 Firebird, he's the original owner, it has the high compression strait-6 ,
..the pic doesn't do justice on how nice the car is.





^^ I still love the shape of the F355GTS





^^ New TRD version


----------



## Mjolnir

I went to the ferrari show and there was in fact a 1964 ferrari 250 GTO (series II, chassis number 4091) as well as the same Enzo and F50 that are there every year. There were no Murcielagos, just a few gallardos and way more Countaches than I would have expected. There were a fair number of 458s as well but no 599s, at least when I was there. If there is any interest I can post some pictures.


----------



## LukeA

Mjolnir said:


> I went to the ferrari show and there was in fact a 1964 ferrari 250 GTO (series II, chassis number 4091) as well as the same Enzo and F50 that are there every year. There were no Murcielagos, just a few gallardos and way more Countaches than I would have expected. There were a fair number of 458s as well but no 599s, at least when I was there. If there is any interest I can post some pictures.


 There is interest.


----------



## Mjolnir

Ok, in that case I guess I will have to post some pictures of a car that is very likely worth something in the tens of millions of dollars...
I don't have time to get them up tonight, but I should be able to in a few days. 
There was also an old car next to it that I can't identify and I failed to take any pictures of the name card; hopefully someone here will be able to tell me what it is.


----------



## 2filthy3

It's a little bit late, but the late f1 turbo cars did not have that bad of a torque curve, pictured here are the Honda engines of 87 and 88, respectively running 58 and 36psi of charge air pressure.







Both engines having near peak torque for a range of 6000rpm.


----------



## StarHalo

Best car chase since Bullitt:

Porsche GT2 vs Caterham R500





On the face of it, there shouldn't be much comparison between these two: the race-bred 996 series Porsche GT2 features a twin-turbo six-cylinder pounding out over 475 horsepower, and with the addition of front and rear aerodynamics, was clearly the most track-ready offering Porsche produced until the redesign in 2006.

Meanwhile the Caterham's design is pure old-school British kit car; a Ford naturally-aspirated four-cylinder makes barely half what the Porsche does, with no provisions for downforce whatsoever. The six-speed gearbox is close-ratio for track work, but it runs out of gears while the car is still charging ahead with authority, ending the fun at 150 mph and forcing the driver to leave the engine pinned at redline down long straights. 

We join the pair on the Nurburgring from within the cockpit of the Caterham, which has already run a couple of laps. The Brit is screaming down the straightaway pegged at redline, when the Porsche blasts past at a furious pace - our driver gives a shake of the fist, and IT'S ON..


----------



## Monocrom

1- A great car is fine. A great driver is what truly counts.

2- Power to weight ratio is a BIG factor.

3- When it comes to car specs., numbers don't mean sh . . .


----------



## LukeA

The 24 Hours of Nurburgring is a little more than half over.

http://tv.audi.com/#/01 (Audi-sponsored stream, German audio)

http://radiolemans.0157.org/nplayer.php English audio


----------



## orbital

Monocrom said:


> 1- A great car is fine. A great driver is what truly counts.
> 
> 2- Power to weight ratio is a BIG factor.
> 
> 3- When it comes to car specs., numbers don't mean sh . . .



+

Your spot on!

(side note: one thing that really impressed me on the C6 Corvettes when they first came out,
GM truly put effort into _lightness_ )


----------



## StarHalo

*Top Gear season 17 opener is now available through the usual means.* 
Featuring Hamster around town in a massive SUV, the Old Man in a BMW 1 Series M Coupe, Alice Cooper in the Reasonably Priced Car, Captain Slow in some Mini Coopers, 50th anniversary of the Jaguar E-type.



Rounding out Nurburgring weekend:

The 1987 RUF "Yellowbird" CTR was the fastest street-legal car in its day, managing 211 mph in an era where the Porsche 959 and Ferrari F40 could only come close to 200 mph. So the logical thing to do with a copy would be flog it at 11/10ths around the Nurburgring in a time when every other car on the course couldn't even remotely keep up. Low-ratio steering that required exaggerated movements? No problem! A shifter with one foot throws? Who cares! Watch as Stefan Roser ruins a set of tires for the final word on how quickly a Porsche could go 'round the 'Ring..


----------



## mossyoak

What are the usual means to get the season opener for top gear?


----------



## StarHalo

Word has it there are two ways


----------



## LukeA

Many torrent clients have RSS abilities, meaning that you just subscribe to that show and it automatically downloads each episode as it becomes available, like a DVR...or so I've heard.


----------



## StarHalo

Growing up in the Midwest, I thought I'd seen every monstrosity that GM offered from the 70's-80's era, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these, the 1980 Oldsmobile Omega SX:






This is possibly the most confused production car I've ever seen; it's a small car made to look like a large car made to look like a luxury car made to look like a sporty car made to look like a V8 when it's a V6 made to look like rear wheel drive when it's front. A whopping 115 hp provided a 0-60 time of just over 10 seconds (so it couldn't keep up with a current Prius), and being based on the Chevy Citation platform, it was apparently quite troublesome.

Anyone else ever seen one of these? Would you be seen in it?


----------



## Monocrom

Never seen it, wouldn't be caught dead in it.

However, it does highlight that GM executives didn't learn a damn thing when this "Market Oldsmobile to a younger crowd" experiment failed miserably back at the start of the '80s.

Yes, they pulled the same B.S. again because they were too thick-headed to learn from the past. But this time to such an extent that they killed Oldsmobile. Turns out that an excellent, classic brand with a truly rich history died for nothing.


----------



## hannyB

Great cars! I'v been dreaming to collect those.


----------



## orbital

+


When I see the picture of the Omega SX,..I somehow hear
_*
"Hey good lookin', we'll be back to pick you up later"*_


----------



## StarHalo

hannyB said:


> Great cars! I'v been dreaming to collect those.


 
Collect 'em all!


----------



## LukeA

YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!! Who's down to go to Austin in 2 years?

"*Australian V8 Supercars to race in Austin*

Australian V8 Supercars Series officials have agreed to a five-year deal to hold races at a racetrack under construction southeast of Austin beginning in 2013, circuit officials along with Gov. Rick Perry said today."

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/cont...011/06/30/australian_v8_supercars_to_rac.html

This is much more exciting to me than the F1 U.S. GP.


----------



## StarHalo

Custom velocity stack intake with water-methanol injectors on a BMW M3.

Edit: Was going to mention that I hoped this was on an M3 with the "Performance Exhaust" option, but then remembered the video got deleted; here it is again for those of you who want to relive it or haven't had a chance to experience it yet:


----------



## UnderTheWeepingMoon

StarHalo said:


> Custom velocity stack intake with water-methanol injectors on a BMW M3.



While it's a beautiful piece of machining, I don't understand the reasoning behind not running air filters on a car that will probably see a lot of street use. It seems to be a bit of a trend these days to have an impressive velocity stack setup on NA cars with no filtration but I can't imagine this would be good for the engine over the long term, especially after seeing some of the gunk caught by the air filter on my car.


----------



## kwak

UnderTheWeepingMoon said:


> While it's a beautiful piece of machining, I don't understand the reasoning behind not running air filters on a car that will probably see a lot of street use. It seems to be a bit of a trend these days to have an impressive velocity stack setup on NA cars with no filtration but I can't imagine this would be good for the engine over the long term, especially after seeing some of the gunk caught by the air filter on my car.


 

I agree.
The brackets that hold the WI nozzles are a work of art.


Still pretty pointless on a N/A car.
Plus individual nozzles is asking for trouble.
1 x blocked nozzle and if the car is tuned to take the most advantage from Meth/WI then it won't take long for that cylinder to self destruct.

Lastly,
Might be the angle, but from the pic it looks like they're missing 3 nozzles.


----------



## Burgess

Since you folks know *So Much* about Cars . . . .


I have a 1995 Ford Motor Company vehicle,
with their Keyless Entry remote key fob.

Today, once again, i have inadvertantly PRESSED the PANIC button
on my key fob, thereby creating a VERY uncomfortable & unpleasant situation.

:hairpull::hairpull::hairpull:




Two Questions:


#1 -- after i have accidently activated the PANIC button,
is there ANY WAY to tell it to STOP, via the Key Fob ? ? ?

If there is, i will be Dammed if i can figure it out ! ! !


I *do* know that i can walk out to my vehicle, use my key to Open the Door,
and then insert my key into the ignition switch.
This will make the alarm stop.

Can i do anything by pressing the Key Fob remote ? ? ?



#2 -- is there any way to DE-ACTIVATE that red Panic Button ? ? ?

I have considered squirting a GLUE onto/into the red Panic button,
thereby rendering it immobile,
but i don't wanna' risk screwing up the OTHER buttons (Lock and Unlock).


Certainly i can't be the *only* one to encounter this hassle.

Any suggestions ? ? ?

Thank you, everyone, for your help.

:thanks:
_


----------



## It01Firefox

I don't know if this applies to your model, but here's a quote from the user manual of the 1995 Taurus



> Sounding a panic alarm
> Press (pictogramm of the button missing) to activate the alarm. Both the horn will sound and the
> parklamps will flash for a maximum of 30 seconds. Press again or turn
> the ignition to the 4 (ON) position to deactivate, or wait for the alarm to
> timeout in 3 minutes.



On other vehicles I had success in turning off the alarm by simply unlocking the car with the key fob.

You might wanna try this in an isolated area


----------



## StarHalo

On a recent Ford Fusion, you just hit the panic button again, not sure if it's once or twice. Disable the button by taping a wider washer or metal disc over the button, so it can't be depressed.


----------



## orbital

+

In the 70s', my Dad raced in SCCA & would get about every car magazine 
delivered to our house..

I personally would get _*CARtoons*_..:devil:


----------



## LukeA

The silhouette of the Chrysler 200 Convertible hardtop actually looks ok. I saw two in person today.

I would attach a picture but there are literally zero pictures of that car's side on the entire internet (that I could find).


----------



## bstrickler

Burgess said:


> #2 -- is there any way to DE-ACTIVATE that red Panic Button ? ? ?
> 
> I have considered squirting a GLUE onto/into the red Panic button,
> thereby rendering it immobile,
> but i don't wanna' risk screwing up the OTHER buttons (Lock and Unlock).



If they have designed it to be able to be disassembled (i.e. so you can replace the battery when it dies), just crack it open, put a dab of elmers glue on a small piece of paper (should you want to remove the paper easily in the future), and glue it to the button. Should disable the panic button.

I hate the panic buttons on the keyfobs! The alarms don't do %$#% anymore, anyways. Almost everyone ignores the vehicles that the alarms go off on, including me. Instead of an alarm system, why not have a camera built into the car that's always recording, and if the alarm goes off (preferably a silent one, IMHO), it starts snapping pictures of the drivers seat, and the sides of the car, and uploads them to your phone or something? I'd pay a couple bucks a month to have that.

Or, just have the alarm beep loud once, and disable the car from being able to be turned on, and lock the doors, when the person closes the door, unless the key is put into the ignition? Sounds like a simple solution to me.

~Brian


----------



## Monocrom

I remember moving into my current place about 8 years ago. One of my earliest memories was of an obnoxious neighbor who owned a Nissan Maxima that was a decade old, and in pretty grungy condition. The type of car that would mistakenly get towed by the City as an abandoned vehicle if you left it parked in one spot for longer than a couple of days.

So naturally the owner put in the loudest, cheapest, most obnoxious, aftermarket car alarm he could find. One day, it went off. He kept coming outside to reset it. It would keep going off. He'd keep coming outside to reset it. Now a man with a brain would . . . Well, first off he wouldn't install such an alarm on his piece of $#!% car. But he'd at least realize that it would be best to just turn off the damn thing. Stupidity can best be described as doing the exact same thing over, and over, and over again, while expecting a different result than the same one you've gotten each previous time. Finally, I pointed out his stupidity to him when it became clear that he just didn't get it. I also gave him a reality check that no self-respecting thief would even bother stealing his decade-old piece of junk which he clearly hadn't taken care of properly. He got defensive. Did a bit of macho postering. But he did leave the alarm off after our "conversation."

By the way, driving home I encountered no less than three Fiat 500s. Despite the clear look of Spongebob Squarepants on the front, they are hidious!


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Monocrom

The very next day . . . I found the dealership that sells them. 

By accident, obviously.


----------



## redaudi

i think the new 500 is brilliant.

even better, the u.s. is getting the abarth model, which will be the hopped up version. 

the looks are obviously going to be a point of contention, it's either a love it or hate it. i love it


----------



## Monocrom

It reminds me of an ugly puppy.

Tough to look at. But it just wants to play. And you can't fault it for that. But damn it's hard to look at.


----------



## redaudi

it'll grow on you


----------



## Monocrom

redaudi said:


> it'll grow on you


 
Like a wart? I hope not.


----------



## LukeA

I would rather be seen in a 500 than in any new Honda.


----------



## Monocrom

Must admit, the current Honda Accord coupe (with rear-spoiler) is a looker.


----------



## LukeA

Monocrom said:


> Must admit, the current Honda Accord coupe (with rear-spoiler) is a looker.


 
It has a decent silhouette and it looks less like it was punched in the face than the rest of the lineup. I will give you that.


----------



## Flying Turtle

I think Honda really dropped the ball with the redesign of the 2012 Civic. Frankly, it's a step backward to my eye from my 2006 model. Maybe it is a bit better under the skin, but there's not much I can complain about in the old one. Heck, I can still get 40 mpg for straight highway driving. They better step it up. Those Hyundai's are looking better and better.

Geoff


----------



## Monocrom

The previous Hyundai Elantra looked quite sporty. The one before that was not too shabby either. The current one though has the melted front-end look of their Flag-ship model. 

I prefer it when smaller, less expensive cars in a brand have their own look. Rather than the "Mini-Me" concept for car design. (Especially when the Flag-ship model looks like it's melting or, from a distance, looks like it has a bit of front-end damage on the grill.)

Honda's redesign of the Civic is quite good compared to VW's redesign of the Jetta. If they were going for bland, generic, downright homely looks; damn if they didn't nail it!


----------



## redaudi

welcome to the new decade. 

the blandness will eventually be accepted by all, due to more unimaginative people being in charge of car companies, and more and more govt. regulations on (or against, however you word it) automobiles aimed at forcing the blandness on everyone.


----------



## LukeA

redaudi said:


> welcome to the new decade.
> 
> the blandness will eventually be accepted by all, due to more unimaginative people being in charge of car companies, and more and more govt. regulations on (or against, however you word it) automobiles aimed at forcing the blandness on everyone.


 
What the hell are you talking about?

Ford Fiesta
Ford Focus
Subaru Legacy/Outback
Fiat 500
Hyundai Elantra
Hyundai Sonata
Hyundai Veloster
Nissan Murano
Nissan Juke
Nissan Cube
Dodge Charger

That is a not-at-all-comprehensive list of everyday cars with cohesive designs/styles that people either love or hate. That people either love or hate them means that they're not bland. This list is much longer than the same list of 2005 or 2006 cars. Compare any car on that list with its previous model(s). The new one is a much more interesting looking car; much less bland than before. Cars today are not getting more bland, they, especially economy cars, are more interestingly designed than they ever have been.


----------



## Lite_me

^^^ ..,yeah this. I have to be careful to watch where I'm going lately cause I find myself staring at a new model of something - admiring its lines. I'll speed up, slow down, look back at an off-ramp etc.. just to get a better glimpse. It's as bad as texting sometimes. :devil:

Edit to add: No, I do not text while driving.


----------



## orbital

+

The *Car Show* premier on Speed wasn't bad, could be fun,
kinda like 'Top Gear' but without the smell of boiled cauliflower..:nana:


----------



## redaudi

Top gear is the greatest automotive show in the history of anything, ever.


No american boiled down shart is going to compare, ever.


sorry


----------



## orbital

^ ever, ever,..or just ever 



/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


----------



## stevep

The passenger might have to change his shorts.




wired.com/autopia/2011/07/hennessey-venom-gt-2/


----------



## Monocrom

Adam actually hosted what was supposed to be Top Gear America. But the show was put aside for several months. In that time, he got other job offers. When they decided to bring it to Life, the producers didn't ask Adam to come back. Somewhere out there is a Top Gear America pilot with Adam hosting that we'll never see.

But that's fine, considering that Top Gear UK is Top Gear itself. The chemistry of Clarkson, May, and Hammond is what makes the show so incredibly entertaining. No matter how greedy an executive might be in wanting to make money by duplicating the success of the original, it's just not gonna happen.


----------



## Monocrom

Okay, for some odd reason, my previous post got turned into a giant link.


----------



## LukeA

I am getting pretty tired of people complaining about (or implying) some lack of chemistry among the TGUSA hosts. Especially when the first two years of original Top Gear suck big ones. Seriously. Those seasons are poop. The guys didn't have much TV experience, came from extremely different backgrounds, had relatively little in common, had a low budget, didn't quite know how to make the show their own, and didn't quite know how to be funny in almost any situation yet. Sound familiar? It should. Every new show has teething pains, and the teething pains of TGUSA have been much less severe than of original Top Gear, as some would argue they should be. And according to Autoblog, the TGUSA hosts themselves found filming the second season came much more naturally than the first season. So I think it's still too early to judge TGUSA to be crap. Original Top Gear was complete crap for much longer than just its first season. 

While History's ultimate goals in producing TGUSA are definitely ratings and ad revenue (there's no denying it), the vehicle they chose, Top Gear--but as distinctly American as much as original Top Gear is distinctly British, is a great choice. Much more entertaining than most of History's other reality shows, which consist primarily of a battle with Discovery to show the simplest simpletons doing the most difficult, unnecessary job the hardest way possible in the most desolate environment. An example of a great TGUSA film is the pickup truck cheap car challenge. As an American, watching say, the British Leyland car challenge, is funny because it's good TV, but the cars have no significance to me. I've never seen any of them before, never had or known anyone who owned one, never worked on one, and so on. But replace those cars (and locations) with ones I have more experience with and it speaks to me much more loudly. Same with the GM car film and the southern $5000 car film. 

But I think most of us can agree, the best part about original Top Gear is Amy Williams's bottom.


----------



## Monocrom

Excellent points. However, Top Gear USA isn't a new show. The producers think they have the cookie-cutter for success, and they're running with it . . . right off the giant cliff. Even the little Swiss Alpinist from the old Price is Right episodes is surprised at how fast they're headed towards that cliff.

"Yo-oh-lay-he-who. Yo-oh-lay-he-who-came-up-with-this-idea?"


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> By the way, driving home I encountered no less than three Fiat 500s. Despite the clear look of Spongebob Squarepants on the front, they are hidious!


 
You were warned..



Monocrom said:


> However, Top Gear USA isn't a new show. The producers think they have the cookie-cutter for success, and they're running with it . . . right off the giant cliff.


 
I'm still convinced the Corolla/Titus/Danica lineup would have been a success..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> I'm still convinced the Corolla/Titus/Danica lineup would have been a success..



Perhaps. But the problem is that when you have three such strong personalities, it's either going to be fantastic or horrible when you bring them together.


----------



## LukeA

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/15/subaru-to-split-wrx-from-rest-of-impreza-line-make-it-smaller/

The next major redesign of the WRX/STI will significantly shorten it and differentiate it from the regular car much more than it currently is.



> What's more, it looks like the WRX's turbocharged Boxer engine may lose some displacement, with the new car using a 1.6-liter unit capable of producing somewhere around 270 horsepower.



Shorter car? 1600cc? WRC.


----------



## StarHalo

LukeA said:


> http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/15/subaru-to-split-wrx-from-rest-of-impreza-line-make-it-smaller/


 
The size of a Toyota Yaris?! So instead of being a rally Corolla, now it'll be a rally Mini Cooper..


----------



## orbital

+

*Wienermobile turns 75 today*

_date code,..what date code_?


----------



## Lite_me

Has everyone here seen these? If you've got a bit of the family car blues, this might be just the ticket! The SoundRacer! :naughty:


----------



## don.gwapo

Lite_me said:


> Has everyone here seen these? If you've got a bit of the family car blues, this might be just the ticket! The SoundRacer! :naughty:


Nice. Works best with manual transmission where you can hold a gear as long as you want and a good sound system to match.


----------



## StarHalo

Lite_me said:


> The SoundRacer! :naughty:


 
Hm, restrictive muffler + PA system..


----------



## LukeA

I think I would rather have a Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland than a Range Rover HSE. Especially in 2013 when the Cherokee gets a diesel engine that's faster to 60mph than the available V8 and gets above 30mpg on the highway (instead of 19). The Range Rover's interior is far too busy. And dynamically, I think Jeep's engineers have succeeded in matching the RR's onroad- and offroad manners with variable ride-height and different terrain modes.


----------



## StarHalo

LukeA said:


> I think I would rather have a Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland than a Range Rover HSE.


 
Would strongly recommend reviewing reliability ratings of both models before considering either seriously..


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> Would strongly recommend reviewing reliability ratings of both models before considering either seriously..


 
Purely theoretical. All the luxury junk is just useless weight that will break. And both are too heavy.


----------



## StarHalo

LukeA said:


> Purely theoretical. All the luxury junk is just useless weight that will break. And both are too heavy.


 
It goes well beyond the luxury options with those two particular models, but yes, there's a lot of breaking involved. The offerings from Lexus don't have these problems.


----------



## StarHalo

Remember Car Soccer on Top Gear? The creators of the Forza XBox series of games has announced that Car Soccer will be a playable game in Forza 4, and you can choose the cars. I'm going with Shelby Cobras, imagine the tire smoke..


----------



## mossyoak

I saw this episode this afternoon on the netflixes. 



StarHalo said:


> Remember Car Soccer on Top Gear? The creators of the Forza XBox series of games has announced that Car Soccer will be a playable game in Forza 4, and you can choose the cars. I'm going with Shelby Cobras, imagine the tire smoke..


----------



## LukeA

Is it just me, or has Chrysler LLC been making great commercials, except that they put the wrong car in them?

Example: The Super Bowl ad. A great ad, until you find out that it's for the mid-cycle refresh of one of the most laughably bad cars on the market. This ad clearly should have been for the new 300, which is newly redesigned, bigger, more luxurious, and most importantly, _actually the brand's flagship model._






And again. This excellently-made long-form ad bemoaning a perceived lack of performance in modern cars features the heaviest unibody vehicle ever? From the same company that is currently welding together the Charger SRT8? 

What are Chrysler's ad people smoking? They are using the best car ads of this century to sell warmed-over crap and a bloated, fat hulk instead of cars that are actually good?


----------



## StarHalo

If they were entirely honest now, the logo in the commercial would read "Chrysler, by Fiat"..

They did good getting Dexter to be their voice over guy, at least. And Washington taking the fore in a tire-smoking Challenger is at least entertaining, even if the enemies in Camaros and Mustangs would get there faster..


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> If they were entirely honest now, the logo in the commercial would read "Chrysler, by Fiat"..
> 
> They did good getting Dexter to be their voice over guy, at least. And Washington taking the fore in a tire-smoking Challenger is at least entertaining, even if the enemies in Camaros and Mustangs would get there faster..


 
Well the rumor is Dodge is planning to offer the option of an Eaton supercharger for the SRT8s that aren't the Grand Cherokee in 2013. And the 8-speed tranny too. Said combo would be worth about 570hp. That's as much as the ZL-1. 

source (AB)


----------



## StarHalo

For those of you who like to pick up an occasional car magazine, the new edition of Car and Driver is a humdinger: McLaren MP4 vs Ferrari 458 vs Porsche GT2RS, Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8, camping at Le Mans in an Audi R8 GT, Mini Cooper Coupe, Porsche GT3RS 4.0, BMW M5, Smart FourTwo ED, Jaguar XKR-S, Chevorlet Sonic, an interview with Jackie Stewart, and more.

And congrats to McLaren's MP4; 0-60 in under three seconds and the quarter mile in under eleven, _powered only by the rear wheels_. That's _quicker than the F1_..


----------



## LukeA

The 2012 Civic has actually been punched in the face. In addition to being unforgivably ugly, it now also is outperformed by its competitors. Consumer Reports has dropped it from their "Recommended" list.

source


----------



## Monocrom

LukeA said:


> The 2012 Civic has actually been punched in the face. In addition to being unforgivably ugly, it now also is outperformed by its competitors. Consumer Reports has dropped it from their "Recommended" list.
> 
> source


 
It has also gotten as big as the Accord used to be many years ago. (The ones with the gum-drop style tail-lights.)


----------



## StarHalo

I drove an '11 Civic for a bit a few months ago, the distinct impression I got was one of identity crisis; the Civic is trying to be an Accord and an Si at the same time. The massive, sweeping dash and gentle ride make the car seem as large as possible, while the lack of sound deadening materials and the vocal exhaust are decidedly sporty. It's a compromise, as the young buyer wants the lively pseudo-sports car, yet the average age of the Corolla buyer is 47, but just slapping together aspects of the two into a single model makes for a rather disjointed result.

Honda should just make the base Civic a sedate mini-Accord, and save the boy racer formula for the Si.


----------



## LukeA

Here is what my opinions of the ranking of 2012 small cars are:

Subaru Impreza 
Ford Focus
Hyundai Elantra
Hyundai Veloster
Chevrolet Cruze
Mazda Mazda3
Mitsubishi Lancer
Kia Forte
Nissan Versa
Suzuki SX4
Volkswagen Jetta = Honda Civic = Toyota Corolla

Any important ones (note that I've only listed cars >2 doors) that I've forgotten or you think I'm completely wrong about?


----------



## StarHalo

LukeA said:


> Any important ones (note that I've only listed cars >2 doors) that I've forgotten or you think I'm completely wrong about?



- I have no idea where the base Impreza should be on your list, because no one ever tests the base version; any of the performance models would price it too high against the others.

- The Cruze is a mediocre 2011 model, if you don't mind a bit less space, the 2012 Sonic would probably hold up better against this competition.

- The Mazda 3 should be much higher on the list; if sportiness is your main criteria, it goes above the Focus.

- The Veloster hasn't been released yet.

- The Versa is generally pitted against the Honda Fit and whatever small Toyota model they're selling this year. The sedate but nicely-optioned Sentra usually competes in this class.

- I wouldn't put the Corolla on the bottom of the list unless sportiness is your only criteria; it is a very quiet and refined ride. If you want a mini-luxury car, the Corolla should be at or near the top of the list (and don't forget the ultra-rare Corolla Limited, which has the four cylinder from the Camry in it, and is as fast in a straight line as any of the sporty models above.)


----------



## Monocrom

I recall the previous version of the Corolla having some of the cheapest looking and feeling plastic parts inside. Really quite bad. The current version must have been a HUGE improvement.


----------



## mossyoak

Anyone checked out the new Buick Regal Turbo? seriously, check it out.


----------



## Lite_me

StarHalo said:


> - The Mazda 3 should be much higher on the list; if sportiness is your main criteria, it goes above the Focus.
> -


:thumbsup:


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> I recall the previous version of the Corolla having some of the cheapest looking and feeling plastic parts inside. Really quite bad. The current version must have been a HUGE improvement.


 
Yes, the '02-'06 Corolla went cheap in a bad way. The newer generation has returned to the "just make it a mini-Camry" winning formula. And I understand that the Camry is boring for a family car, but when you put that level of refinement into a small car, it really stands out..



mossyoak said:


> Anyone checked out the new Buick Regal Turbo? seriously, check it out.


 
I'll keep saying it; Buick may be a Lexus rip-off now, but it's a *good* Lexus rip-off. Now they just need to stuff the CTS-V engine into the Regal, paint it black, and slap GNX badges on it..


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> I drove an '11 Civic for a bit a few months ago, the distinct impression I got was one of identity crisis; the Civic is trying to be an Accord and an Si at the same time. The massive, sweeping dash and gentle ride make the car seem as large as possible, while the lack of sound deadening materials and the vocal exhaust are decidedly sporty. It's a compromise, as the young buyer wants the lively pseudo-sports car, yet the average age of the Corolla buyer is 47, but just slapping together aspects of the two into a single model makes for a rather disjointed result.
> 
> Honda should just make the base Civic a sedate mini-Accord, and save the boy racer formula for the Si.



+

Hondas' biggest problem for decades, is waaay too soft of pedals,
its like they're designed for little Japanese girls.

This creates issues when driving hard and trying to heel-toe {even in my Acura Legend from the late 90s'}

Something like too soft of pedals doesn't show up in specs...:shakehead



mossyoak said:


> Anyone checked out the new Buick Regal Turbo? seriously, check it out.



agreed, especially the GS*

U.S. needs cars like this.*


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> - I have no idea where the base Impreza should be on your list, because no one ever tests the base version; any of the performance models would price it too high against the others.



The 2012 Impreza is the one with the great engine bay I've posted before. It's slated to do 36hwy mpg with full-time AWD, is lighter than the model it replaces, the chassis is stiffer, it has more interior volume, and it's got the same external dimensions. All the engineering boxes are checked.



StarHalo said:


> - The Cruze is a mediocre 2011 model, if you don't mind a bit less space, the 2012 Sonic would probably hold up better against this competition.


The LTZ RS is a pretty nice car, despite the irony of using an RS nameplate on an FF car.



StarHalo said:


> - The Mazda 3 should be much higher on the list; if sportiness is your main criteria, it goes above the Focus.



While it's the best drive (and the only one available with a 2.5L engine - to my knowledge), the interior is dismal and cheap. Although it should probably bump the Cruze and maybe the Veloster.



StarHalo said:


> - The Veloster hasn't been released yet.


No, but it is a 2012 model and Hyundai is on a huge roll.



StarHalo said:


> - The Versa is generally pitted against the Honda Fit and whatever small Toyota model they're selling this year. The sedate but nicely-optioned Sentra usually competes in this class.


If I completely forgot about the Sentra, which I did, then I'm not putting it any higher up on my list. And the Sentra and Versa are within 4 inches of one another in every external dimension.



StarHalo said:


> - I wouldn't put the Corolla on the bottom of the list unless sportiness is your only criteria; it is a very quiet and refined ride. If you want a mini-luxury car, the Corolla should be at or near the top of the list (and don't forget the ultra-rare Corolla Limited, which has the four cylinder from the Camry in it, and is as fast in a straight line as any of the sporty models above.)


I ranked the cars based on my opinion of how interesting I think they are. I probably should have said that before. For a car to be interesting it has to have some aspect that separates it from the rest. It can have especially good or even divisive exterior styling, be particularly good to drive, be unbelievably better than the model it replaces, have previously unseen-in-that-segment parts like a turbocharger or a CVT or an 8-speed, etc.

The Corolla has been so carefully crafted so as not to offend anyone, and that's what I don't like about it. If it offends no one, it also endears no one. When you walk out to your Corolla in the morning to go to work, how do you look at it and smile, because you get to admire it and sit in it and drive it and enjoy it? You can't, because if you have a Corolla, you've only bought 14.9 feet of car. There's no life in it the way there is in other cars.

The Corolla Limited, as far as I can tell, is from generations past, not available to configure as a 2011+ model. Be careful not to suffer the pitfall of applying past goodness to current mediocrity. Coincidentally, that is what Honda and VW are hoping buyers of the new Civic and Jetta will do, which is why they are also at the bottom.


----------



## StarHalo

- I'd wait for the reviews before buying the Impreza based on MPG; the current Impreza is down a few MPG against this list. And the clips that I've read have noted that the base model has a soft and wallowy suspension, which is better for dirt roads and the inclement conditions the AWD is suited for, but not exactly track-sporty.

- Not sure where the comments about the Mazda 3's interior are coming from, unless it's just your personal opinion of the styling; Mazda generally has better styled and more sporty-looking interiors than the competition, which applies here:







- The Sentra is the straight-line performance winner by a huge margin in SE-R Spec-V trim; it's in Civic Si/VW GTI/JCW Mini territory.

- I'd agree that the Corolla is inoffensive, but it's the only small car that doesn't compromise in some way; you can get out of a $30k family sedan and get into a Corolla, and you'll find there isn't a notable difference in the driving experience. It's the kind of car you enjoy when sitting in traffic, knowing that you're in a more comfortable environment than at least 90% of the cars around you, or when you have to give someone a ride, and you don't have to be embarrassed just because it's a small car.


----------



## beach honda

I wish Honda would bring their racing heritage back to the states and get rid of these bloated, plastic POS the current lineup offers. 
I miss working on my friends Honda Integra R. They don't make cars like that anymore.


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> - I'd wait for the reviews before buying the Impreza based on MPG; the current Impreza is down a few MPG against this list. And the clips that I've read have noted that the base model has a soft and wallowy suspension, which is better for dirt roads and the inclement conditions the AWD is suited for, but not exactly track-sporty.



Don't need to wait. Already have a 2011 Outback. The same crew did the new Impreza. It's going to sell like crazy, and for good reason, just like the Legacy/Outback are. 

The current Impreza is down MPGs because it's using the old heads on the old 2.5L block through an old 4-speed auto. The new one has a brand-new 2.0L engine pushing through a CVT.

The Mazda 3's interior is uniformly gray and there are too many buttons on the steering wheel.

The Sentra SE-R is a dog compared to the Mazdaspeed 3. And using the SE-R badge on a FWD car that heavy and with a frankly pretty paltry power increase is blasphemy.

What are some alleged compromises one makes in buying a 2012 Focus or Elantra over a 2012 Corolla?


----------



## LukeA

beach honda said:


> I wish Honda would bring their racing heritage back to the states and get rid of these bloated, plastic POS the current lineup offers.
> I miss working on my friends Honda Integra R. They don't make cars like that anymore.


 
I completely agree. How the mighty have fallen.


----------



## StarHalo

- CVT transmissions hurt performance, but on the bright side, they are smooth and can make a smaller car feel more refined.

- If you dislike a busy and monotone interior, the news about the Focus is not good:






- The Mazdaspeed 3 is much faster, but it's also at least $23k. The Sentra is priced similarly to other cars on your list.

- The Focus or Elantra buyer would probably not consider the Corolla, it's apples and oranges. What I'm saying is that the Accord or Camry buyer would consider a Corolla..



beach honda said:


> I miss working on my friends Honda Integra R. They don't make cars like that anymore.


 
The Type R made sense in an age when other manufacturers were using moderation with horsepower, and the variable valve timing technology hadn't yet spread. But in an era where the family sedans are putting out over 250 hp (over 300 hp for the base pony cars) it's merely a "sporty" car with few options. The age of the sleeper small car is over.


----------



## StarHalo

Rowan Atkinson, aka Mr. Bean has been hospitalized with a shoulder injury after spinning out in his McLaren F1 into a lamppost and tree. Atkinson is a car collector and longtime McLaren owner.


----------



## Monocrom

Hope he makes it out of the hospital soon. I love Mr. Bean, and the old Blackadder series. Long before "House" became a popular dramatic actor in America, he was Atkinson's comedic punching bag on the series. But in a fun way. 

The thing with a car like that is that you are basically the owner of a rattle snake. You can feed it, handle it. On a basic level it'll appreciate you for feeding it. But it's an unforgiving creature that will bite you if you make the smallest mistake. A McLaren F1 is little more than a professional racing car with headlights to make it street legal. You don't have to be a professional race car driver to drive one. But just like handling a snake . . . best to let a true Pro do that sort of thing.


----------



## LukeA

Monocrom said:


> . . . best to let a true Pro do that sort of thing.


 
You may want to look up his recent Top Gear interview and lap. Episode 17x04.


----------



## Monocrom

LukeA said:


> You may want to look up his recent Top Gear interview and lap. Episode 17x04.


 
I love Top Gear, I love Mr. Bean. He's a wonderful comedic actor. That's how he earned enough to indulge his desires for car collecting.

But he's not a highly experienced driver who knows when to shift simply by instinct.


----------



## mossyoak

LukeA said:


> You may want to look up his recent Top Gear interview and lap. Episode 17x04.


 

He's gonna be at the top for a while, that .6 of a second is good sized gap.


----------



## kwak

Monocrom said:


> But he's not a highly experienced driver who knows when to shift simply by instinct.



:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Been a pretty terrible day up until i read your post, cheered me up no end thanks 

:thumbsup:


----------



## StarHalo

The Sultan of Brunei is selling off 21 cars in his collection; most of these cars have never been driven and still have the same mileage as when they were delivered from the factory, including the four below:


----------



## LukeA

Apparently someone has shot a video of the 2012 911. I'm not sure how he could tell. Maybe brown is a new color.


----------



## Monocrom

Does Porsche even have a design team?? Seriously.

And if it does, why haven't those lazy bums been fired yet. Think of the profits the company could make. It's clear by now the design team is about as effective as a one-legged man in an ***-kicking contest.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Does Porsche even have a design team?? Seriously.


 
Don't give up on the 991 just yet; indications are that they've exaggerated the curve of the top-front fenders so it looks more like an original Spyder from the front, stay tuned..


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## It01Firefox

RBR said:


> But seriously, just wait a bit and you will see the first interior compenents of VW/AUDI/SKODA/SEAT intergrated in a Porsche, like in the bad old times, motor components... rather soone than later, it´s only a matter of time.



Yup, I'm afraid you're right.

Isn't 2012 the year that they will release the 911 2.0 TDi Blue Efficiency model with front mounted engine and fwd?


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## orbital

+

My guess is that it'll be more mid engined.
What ever the final body, there will be several versions for your taste


_*nice cooling shot*_


----------



## LukeA

RBR said:


> Yes, and a trailer hitch is announced to come soon as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> RBR



Don't think you're that far off. Check out the commercial Porsche has been running here recently. :tinfoil:



He's loading bags of potting soil into his Carrera.


----------



## kwak

This is Porsche guys, a company that has produced a car with a fundamentally flawed design for the last 70 years and has stubbenly stuck to it for those 70 odd years.

It's only saving grace is that modern electrics have reeled in it's flawed design.


----------



## Monocrom

I knew Porsche was going downhill when they introduced an SUV . . . And everyone with more money than taste started buying them up.


----------



## StarHalo

Put some wasabi on your sauerkraut and wash down that bitter slab-side design taste with some RWB wider-than-wide wideness:


----------



## RBR

...,,


----------



## StarHalo

Re: Shelby car soccer - This guy is on my team:


----------



## techcircolareda

I Love Cars...specially the Lamborghinni Gallargo it beat them all hands-down 
Hotlink Image removed Rule#3 = Norm


----------



## StarHalo

techcircolareda said:


> I Love Cars...specially the Lamborghinni Gallargo it beat them all hands-down
> Hotlink Image removed Rule#3 = Norm


 
We've got your back; enjoy an LP 570-4 Superleggera with the optional cougar package..


----------



## gswitter

StarHalo said:


> Re: Shelby car soccer - This guy is on my team:


 
I'll take this guy...


----------



## StarHalo

gswitter said:


> I'll take this guy...


 
Some quality car tossing there; I have a feeling that if I owned a Caterham, I'd arrange some trash barrels on my street and do that all afternoon..

I get the second guy in this video:


----------



## LukeA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCFErAFVT5A&feature=player_detailpage#t=140s
(link because video embed won't let me start at the timestamp I want)

The above is my favorite, considering how little steering lock the car in the video has. He's on full oppo the whole time and doesn't spin until he wants to.


----------



## StarHalo

LukeA said:


> He's on full oppo the whole time and doesn't spin until he wants to.


 
He drifted half the track, if that were a video game, he'd definitely have the high score..


----------



## orbital

+

A few shots from the Kohler International Challenge a couple weeks back.





^Supercharged Jag, hmm,, badass or built for ballers??






^I'll have the KR medium rare, and she'll have the....






^No riots needed






^Coffee anyone? 






^When _two _just isn't enough 








^Yellow on yellow is kinda like...:naughty:


----------



## Mjolnir

In the next few days I will upload some of the pictures from the Father's day Ferrari/lamborghini/maserati/Alfa Romeo show that I went to; I have some nice pictures of a 1964 250 GTO that I have been meaning to upload but due to my laziness I have completely neglected to do so yet.


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> ^Supercharged Jag, hmm,, badass or built for ballers??



Badass, that's the only other RWD sedan that can match a CTS-V move for move around a track



orbital said:


> ^When _two _just isn't enough



Ferrari 458



orbital said:


> ^Yellow on yellow is kinda like...:naughty:


 
Fitting that the insane Scud would be the one picture that doesn't match the others..


----------



## orbital

^

Just snappin' shots,
458 was parked right next to the 430, gotta say, 458 is a bit _darth vader _for me.
I still think the 430 is a top 5 car ever,..for me


there is no number 1 car though


----------



## LukeA

All of those pushbutton tuned exhausts are just expensive fart cans.

If someone said to me, "Pick an XFR or a CTS-V," I don't know if I could.

the 308 is the prettiest Ferrari to me. Just not with 5mph bumpers.

-----------------------
At the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix a few weeks ago, a guy had this blown Marauder with a baby seat in the back.




The plaque in the bottom left has his 13.12s timeslip.



Also there was the CTS-V SCCA racecar. I don't have any pictures but I can assure you, it is very menacing in person. They had the hood up to show the restrictor and, I guess, how much stuff from the road car isn't in there. A Cadillac rep was talking to a guy about the engine. "Yeah, they actually had to detune it for the racecar." To which I said, "Not really. It just doesn't have a supercharger." Dirtiest looks I think I have ever been given.


----------



## StarHalo

LukeA said:


> At the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix a few weeks ago, a guy had this blown Marauder with a baby seat in the back.


 
Hope he brought a lot of beer, all Corvettes from ~2003 on are under 13, as is the current Camaro..


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> Hope he brought a lot of beer, all Corvettes from ~2003 on are under 13, as is the current Camaro..


 
Pretty sure the point is that most Corvette owners are old men who take their hats out for a ride in the car on sunny days and then put the car back in the garage without ever putting it through its paces. Or idiots burning tire or clutch.


----------



## StarHalo

A car forum recently did an homage to 70's era car design, some interesting highlights:


1979 AMC Spirit AMX; this is technically the American forerunner to the Subaru WRX STi:






1977 Chevrolet Monza Mirage; it looks sporty, that's the mirage:






1978 Ford Mustang II King Cobra; I'm used to seeing these in black, in red it actually does look a bit more like a sports car:






1976 Dodge Aspen R/T Super Pak; no idea why you'd take one of the worst examples of 1970's cars and make a performance version, but the decals are nice:






1977 Pontiac Grand Prix Can Am; looks pretty good for a land yacht, but it's the shaker hood that seals the deal:






1976 Buick Century Pace Car package; with subtle decals:






1979 Chevrolet El Camino Royal Knight; not even the El Camino was immune to the decal craze:






Everyone knows about the "Bandit" Trans Am, but I had no idea there were plenty of other special edition models:


Firebird Fire-Am:






Firebird Trans-Am Macho T/A:






Firebird Trans-Am Sky Bird (also available in Red Bird and Yellow Bird):


----------



## orbital

^^^^^

Welll blow my doors, 


it floors me that you have Firebird pictures, gotta love the Trans-Ams, Firebirds & Formulas.
My Pop bought a '70s Formula* (*unreal deal*) in the early 80s', 
it was a blast to drive, you could drop a gear and get it sideways easily.
winter on the other hand, was all throttle control ..

At the last vintage event at Road America, there was a _*Historical Trans-Am*_ race from the 70s' {Mustangs, Camaros, Dodges ect..}
it was one of the best races I'v seen in several years.

A White Camaro cleaned up,...just a killer race!


*301 or 305 w/ the elongated headlight housing, that's all I remember


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> it floors me that you have Firebird pictures, gotta love the Trans-Ams, Firebirds & Formulas.


 
Glad you dig 'em, I'm just surprised there were so many different types; I usually associate the Mustang with having lots of different special editions..



StarHalo said:


> Firebird Trans-Am Macho T/A:


 
It took me a while to find out what the "171" on the fender of this one refers to; it's the serial number - this is Macho T/A #171 of 202 for 1978. Number 202 was one of roughly fifteen to feature a special surprise under the hood:


----------



## StarHalo

And speaking of that era of cars; This week on EBay, a 1981 AMC Eagle Sundancer, 1 of ~200:


----------



## orbital

^

_"As the AMC engineers left the FIA headquarters in Paris,
they soon realized their Group B *world beater*_ _would require something more than pencil erasers as brake pads"
@@@@@@@@_


----------



## LukeA

Back from NOT seeing the nascar race at Watkins Glen. Lots of money straight down the drain.

V8 Supercars forever!



Rutledge Wood is a nice guy though.


----------



## StarHalo

Yes or no: BMW 1 Series five-door:


----------



## Flying Turtle

Maybe that's a BMW I could afford (probably not). Four door hatches I like, but this one looks out of proportion.

Geoff


----------



## cm_mtb

I'm not a fan of the 1's front, especially the massive headlights. I like the rest of the styling, though, which reminds me a little of the Z3 coupe.

I must say I'm a bit disappointed with the direction BMW are currently headed. It seems they are steadily trying to appeal less to enthusiasts and more to buyers seeking a powerful and comfy luxury car (such as the X5M, X6M, and F10 5-series). Hopefully they will continue to build smaller, lighter cars, like the 1M and rumored 2-series, for the enthusiast.


----------



## beach honda

EK9 please.

Sigh...the good old days of Honda.


----------



## StarHalo

Cadillac ELR; this will be the Caddy version of the Chevy Volt:


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> Cadillac ELR; this will be the Caddy version of the Chevy Volt:


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## LukeA

RBR said:


> The respective Opel version will be called Ampera over here, and the Chevy Volt will be sold here in direct competition for around 1k€ less.
> 
> GM competes it´s own brands, funny marketing.
> 
> :sick2:
> 
> Cheers
> 
> RBR


 
If you think that's bad, you oughta check out the GMT 360 platform. In the US, you could buy any of the following: 

* 2002–2009 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
* 2002–2009 GMC Envoy
* 2002–2004 Oldsmobile Bravada
* 2003–2007 Isuzu Ascender
* 2004–2007 Buick Rainier
* 2005–2009 Saab 9-7X

which were all the same vehicle. 

Another example is Lincoln, which is having trouble selling cars because all of its current models are just tarted-up Fords being sold for 10-30% more money. That's supposed to change.


----------



## RBR

....,


----------



## StarHalo

Some recovered classics from the crash:


Shelby GT350s:






Growler Jaguar:






Sbarro design students concept:


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## StarHalo

This is the most expensive car in the world as of tonight; a 1957 Ferrari Testa Rossa 250 prototype, which sold at the Gooding auction at Pebble Beach a few hours ago for $14.9 million.


----------



## orbital

+

*Great ALMS race yesterday at Road America,..couple shots*






^ 2 Liter Turbo, fantastic





^ If your into exhaust notes, its been 25 years since the Jags in GTP class for anything close,..rocket ship!
6L V12 bliss





^ Pumped up Kicks






^ Vette Porn (those are Vettes as far as you can C)





^ New_ off road_ Prototype class LMPx,.. :devil:





^ Nice


----------



## chipwillis

heres my ride.


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> ^ Pumped up Kicks


 
The racing variants of Ferraris never get old..



chipwillis said:


> heres my ride.


 
I'm definitely not a truck guy; I'll never understand the Raptor, but it's certainly a hot item among truck folk..


----------



## StarHalo

Mazda concludes production of the RX-8 this week. The company no longer produces a rotary-engine car.


----------



## Monocrom

I might catch some heat for this, but as a Mazda owner; I'm glad its gone!

Yup! I'll tell you why. Those rotary engines are the most unreliable pieces of $#!% ever made. Lights from DX have SureFire levels of reliability compared to those rotary engines. Imagine walking out to your car on a mildly cold day . . . Well, you might as well flip a coin to see if your car is going to start or not. For no forseable reason at all. Nope, there's no giant rock resting where the hood would normally be found. Nope, no one stole your engine and left the top up. 

Just a bit of "No, I'm not in the mood to be driven today. Perhaps in a few hours. Perhaps tomorrow. We'll see."

I still recall one RX-8 owner saying how he nearly lost his job because his boss was getting fed up with the excuses. But he went on to say how he loved that car. Apparently the feeling wasn't always mutual. It also seems that for the average RX-8 owner, that's their one car. It's not seen as a weekend toy. Generally if you owned one, it was your do-everything_-and_-have-fun-on-the-weekend car. 

Also, where the hell is the torque?! Seriously! You could rev one of those engines until Satan's ears began to bleed before you'd get any torque from it. There's "rev happy" and then there's "rev lunatic." I mean, there's good reasons why the rotary engine didn't catch on. I also think it's part of the reason why Mazda's reputation, and thus sales, aren't as good as they should be across the board.

When I got my Mazda 6, most congradulated me. One was shocked that I paid extra for the V6 version. Others wished me "Good Luck." I found out why. They thought that since it's a Mazda it MUST have a rotary engine in it. I made sure to set a few of them straight. But to this day, the brand is not nearly as popular as it should be. I drive through NYC, I drive through Long Island. You rarely see Mazda 6s on the road. And when you do, 99% of the time it's the 4-banger. How rare is a V6 Mazda 6? . . . I drive a silver one with a rear spolier and body-color side moulding. If any of you guys visit NYC or live here too, and you see a car like that driving by; please wave. That's me behind the wheel. I'm not even joking. I will NEVER have that awkward moment of walking up to another silver Mazda 6, V6, trying to get in; and realizing that "Oops! This isn't mine. I parked mine in a different row."

I say good riddence to the rotary engine. Unreliable, no torque, piece of junk.


----------



## orbital

^

Monocrom, would you stop beating around the bush & tell us how you really feel/

Mazda races alot, not just cars, they're a motor supplier as well.
I give them huge props for that.



..


----------



## Monocrom

I give them respect for that too. Thing is . . . Mazda is fully capable of building a modern-day muscle car with vomit-inducing levels of horsepower and torque. They just don't seem to want to.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Mazda is fully capable of building a modern-day muscle car with vomit-inducing levels of horsepower and torque.


 
Not sure about that; the fastest thing they currently make is the Mazdaspeed 3, which definitely isn't a muscle car, and the fastest car they've ever offered is the RX-7, which is yet another rotary..

No complaints about the 6 with a six though, especially since I'm driving the Ford version of it now..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> No complaints about the 6 with a six though, especially since I'm driving the Ford version of it now..


 
My 6 is definitely capable of its reported 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds. Mazda could do the muscle car thing. They could supercharge the V6 in the Mazda 6. Engine would have to be transplanted though since front-wheel drive couldn't handle that much power. But that engine could definitely do so. It's like that student in class who's capable of straight A grades if he put in a bit of effort and spent a few hours studying. But he doesn't, and is happy with his B average.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Mazda could do the muscle car thing. They could supercharge the V6 in the Mazda 6. Engine would have to be transplanted though since front-wheel drive couldn't handle that much power.


 
It could be done with an AWD layout, and then it would be on par with the Subaru Legacy GT. But that would be the same performance numbers as the Mazdaspeed 3, and none of those cars can/would keep up with the Taurus SHO.


----------



## don.gwapo

Which one do you preffer?

US Camry or Asian Camry?

Sporty vs Classy?

You decide!






US





Asian





US





Asian

I'll admit, the asian version's front end reminds me of the current Accord while the US version's front is Corolla and the rear is Subaru. 

Spec's remains the same for both but exterior differs in a big way.


----------



## RBR

....,


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> It could be done with an AWD layout, and then it would be on par with the Subaru Legacy GT. But that would be the same performance numbers as the Mazdaspeed 3, and none of those cars can/would keep up with the Taurus SHO.



Ford should have done a better job of raiding Mazda's parts bin when it owned controlling interest in the company. Those Mazda engineers are capable of making the SHO look like a Model T in terms of performance. 

But they're happy with their "B."


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Those Mazda engineers are capable of making the SHO look like a Model T in terms of performance.


 
The SHO is quicker than the RX-7 (it's quicker than the current 300+ hp Mustang V6!), so Mazda would have to come up with some totally new kind of car..


----------



## LuxLuthor

The most fun car I ever had was the RX-7 Turbo II that a place in Long Island added a new HKS turbo boost air scoop exhaust system, additional suspension struts, Ricaro seat, air dam, better tires. It got the 0-60 down under 4 sec. Man, that Wankel wailed for not that much additional cost.


----------



## UnderTheWeepingMoon

Early-model RX-8s have a well-known problem in which the oil metering pump doesn't supply enough oil to properly lubricate the engine seals. I've read that this issue is fairly widespread in the US, which means there are a lot of RX-8s limping around in need of an engine rebuild (if they haven't been rebuilt already ). Monocrom - this explains your stories of unreliability, as poor cold-start performance is a sign of low engine compression. Mazda resolved the issue in later models and I think an ECU reflash is available for cars affected by the problem. 

I think a problem with the RX-8 is that rotary engines need a little bit more care than regular piston engines and the majority of people who buy them have no understanding of how they work. I can imagine many RX-8 drivers simply get in their car and drive away, revving the guts out it, before the oil pressure has risen to operating level. For this reason, I don't think an RX-8 would make a good second-hand buy in future.

One thing I can't understand is why Mazda didn't release a turbo version of the RX-8. Like what Lux said above, rotaries respond really well to turbocharging and it helps to make up for their lack of low-end torque. As it is, the Renesis is an impressive engine but it makes a thirsty job of powering the RX-8. 

It's a bit sad that Mazda has stopped building rotary-engined cars but there's a bit of hope in this, from Mazda Motor Corporation's Facebook page:

_ It's great to hear so many passionate opinions about the rotary engine! We can assure you that the rotary engine will always be very close to Mazda's heart and development of the next-generation rotary as well as the hydrogen rotary is ongoing. 
So please keep the faith!_


----------



## kwak

To me Mazda used to excel at fairly light weight cars with excellent handling, this it what they do best IMO.
The MX5/Miata/Roadster and RX family are great examples of this, they all handle or handled great for their time.

For Mazda to produce a muscle car just really misses their entire history and design values IMO.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> The SHO is quicker than the RX-7 (it's quicker than the current 300+ hp Mustang V6!), so Mazda would have to come up with some totally new kind of car..



New car? Yes.

But they already have the engine.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> But they already have the engine.


 
The line about an AWD layout matching a Legacy GT assumes a supercharged 3.7 V6 from a current 6; the current 6 manages 60 in 6.1 seconds, the Legacy does it in 5.5, which would require a significant leap in horsepower for the Mazda to match it.


----------



## LuxLuthor

On the other hand that sub 4.0sec 0-60 got me in a lot of trouble. LOL!


----------



## vali

Speeding problems or reliability problems? (or both)


----------



## StarHalo

Should also mention: the old Mazdaspeed 6 matched the Legacy GT's performance numbers exactly; both are turbo four cylinders..


----------



## Changchung

From 1986


----------



## LuxLuthor

vali said:


> Speeding problems or reliability problems? (or both)


 A couple speeding stops I somehow talked myself out of. I deserved the lane weaving charge. Several fast starts when red light changed got some attention. Most the time I was in no traffic just wanting to see how it handled. I did find that its top speed was 138 mph on a nice, straight stretch of I-95 coming down from Mass just before coming into Rhode Island, where you can see several miles ahead and no traffic. 

Never had a single performance/reliability problem, and I drove the living snot out of that turbo boosted Wankel. Traded it in with 35,000 miles on it....that were really more like 100K wear and tear. Got tired of having to put back the catalytic converter to pass emissions testing. That was back in the day where CT passed a law making radar detectors illegal, which opened up a market for people to just move them under the hood. Those were the days.


----------



## StarHalo

Not April Fools: Porsche is preparing a flat-8 engine for their next supercar. And the new seven speed manual has this shift pattern:


----------



## Monocrom

Changchung said:


> From 1986


 
And every following year afterwards . . .


----------



## Acid87

StarHalo said:


> Not April Fools: Porsche is preparing a flat-8 engine for their next supercar. And the new seven speed manual has this shift pattern:



That's just getting greedy.


----------



## orbital

Changchung said:


> From 1986



+

When I was in High School '86ish, I saw an Ad for the Dave Kimble 959 cutaway in the back of AutoWeek,.._*ordered it immediately!*_
Have it framed, but it still pains me to this day I didn't pay the extra $20 to have it signed at the time.


----------



## Changchung

Monocrom said:


> And every following year afterwards . . .



Exactly, I remember dream driving this space shipp... For those years this Porshe was from the future...


----------



## StarHalo

My favorite part of any car owner's manual: "When passing, select the lowest available gear and depress the accelerator pedal fully."


----------



## TyJo

If I win the lottery this is the first thing I will buy (after many, many lights of course).




Nissan GTR (Matte black)


----------



## Chicago X

LuxLuthor said:


> On the other hand that sub 4.0sec 0-60 got me in a lot of trouble. LOL!


 

That must have been a stout upgrade over the stock Turbo II's 200 hp. A sub-4 second 0-60 in a ~3000lb RWD car requires around 500 hp on DOT tires, a bit less with dedicated slicks and drag suspension. 

This translates to ~high-elevens at just over 120 mph.

Here's a heavily modded RX7II with larger turbo and M/T slicks: dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip

It runs 13.34 at ~104MPH. This equates to about a 4.6-4.7 second 0-60.

Could it have been a sub-5 second 0-60?


----------



## LuxLuthor

Yeah, I'm sure now that you point that out...and it being so many years ago that it was sub-5 sec, sorry. I know when we took it to Limerock it was not as fast as the Viper or Vette ZR-1, but it was the fastest and best handling RX-7 Turbo II they had seen. It had wide, soft tires that were quite expensive. It was useless trying to drive it in the winter if any snow, which is part of why I sold it.


----------



## StarHalo

This traffic sucks, and there's no parking..


----------



## Jep

some i like, you may or may not..
















big bimmr fan. 2nd job at 17 was a porter at a bmw/merc dealer in ann arbor, mi. would love to own e39 M5 one day.


----------



## Jep

also into a somewhat unpopular type of custom, on the internet at least..

(older cars/bigger wheels)


----------



## BIGLOU

Changchung said:


> From 1986


 
I remember in '86 seeing this car at the LA Auto Show. They had a real one that was cut in half even the engine like that poster. You have to be a big baller to have one like this. Here in Cali. you even have to mod it to be street legal. I know Bill Gates and Ralph Lauren have one of these.


----------



## StarHalo

Jep said:


> also into a somewhat unpopular type of custom, on the internet at least..
> 
> (older cars/bigger wheels)


 
Top is a restomod, bottom is just big rims (unless it has hydraulics, then it's a donk); two completely different things..



BIGLOU said:


> You have to be a big baller to have one like this.


 
They sell for about half a million now, which is cheaper than they originally sold, and cheaper still than quite a few current supercars (bearing in mind that a current Corvette has similar performance numbers..)


----------



## Jep

actually hydraulics would make it a lowrider. a donk is a 71-76 impala or caprice. technically its a 2dr box with bonspeed billet 24's.


----------



## Jep

some actual "donks" i know alot of people dont like em but some do. i would assume members here have enough integrity to keep the overly negative comments to themselves as i dont care for every custom genre, i still have respect for the work/time/cost involved and dont bash people for their different tastes.


----------



## Monocrom

Hey, anyone willing to put in the time, money, and effort to keep one of those old classics from ending up in the junkyard to be slowly gutted for parts . . . . Let them customize them if they want to.


----------



## lightknot

Donks, Boxes, and Bubbles are not everyone's cup of tea, but it's about the passion..


----------



## Launch Mini

Last week, 13 "young drivers, 21 and under" were sighted speeding around here. Here is one of the news stories, as it looks like 5 of the exotic cars may be confiscated under our new & improved driving laws.
http://www.theprovince.com/cars/Str...could+lose+luxury+vehicles/5372542/story.html

Read some of the related stories to picks of these teenagers rides. Lambos , Ferrari, GTR, Benz, Audi, Aston Martin.

Not the type of kids or wealth I hung around with when I was growing up.


----------



## Monocrom

Worst thing a parent can do when they're rich is give their kid a Lambo or similar brand as a gift. Not only will the kid not appreciate it in the slightest, other than as a symbol to impress the girls. But when you give an inexperienced driver what is little more than a street-legal race car with headlights, he's not just going to put dents in it like the average inexperienced driver in his first car, but he'll likely total it. Possibly total himself in the process.


----------



## LukeA

Jep said:


> some actual "donks" i know alot of people dont like em but some do. i would assume members here have enough integrity to keep the overly negative comments to themselves as i dont care for every custom genre, i still have respect for the work/time/cost involved and dont bash people for their different tastes.


I would respect them much more if they upgraded brakes or steering equipment. The drum brakes on those cars were barely adequate to lock up wheel/tire combos with relatively much lower mass moments of inertia and with lower 1970s coefficients of friction between the tires and road.


----------



## Jep

i agree most dont but if you look close at some you'll see rear discs and some big big brake kits. like most genres you have the good and bad. there are plenty of this type of car with brake kits, a few i posted ^^ have them. 

good example


----------



## Monocrom

Is that real?

If it is, that's a helluva pic. Looks like a painting by a master artist.


----------



## StarHalo

Less donk, more resto

"Red Devil" Pro Touring Camaro, 756hp, 1.0g skidpad


----------



## Jep

nice camaro. 

yes this is real.. one more shot:


----------



## PJ

Sept. 16 and 17, 2011 Mid-Michigan Motorplex in Stanton, Michigan is hosting the Pure Stock Drags.

These are cars from about 1958 to 1974, classic American muscle cars with factory appearance, stock size tires and engines and transmissions that at least appear stock. I'm sure some have been tweaked and tuned but there are a few original cars.

Here is a link to the website with info, some videos and pictures. 

www.purestockdrags.com


----------



## peterpetrickgo

spud said:


> Yes I'm a car photographer. Taken from another moving car, you don't need to be going fast
> maybe 30mph, dependant on the road surface shooting at about 1/15-1/40 second.
> Here are a couple more examples.
> 
> C-Type
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aston DBS



oh my gosh! this 2 photos seems great. Especially the first one, the car looks awesome.


----------



## StarHalo

Here come the hot subcompacts: Ford Fiesta ST, 180hp and greenlighted for production..


----------



## Launch Mini

Here is a link to an 11 "supercar" 1/4 mile race
http://www.wimp.com/dragrace/

Sadly, the car similar to mine didn't win, but at least one like mine ( less 50hp and about 100 ft Tq) didn't finish last, and was still chosen for the race.


----------



## tjswarbrick

Here's mine. Basically stock, except for front discs and electronic ignition. In the family since new:


----------



## StarHalo

The last Ford Crown Victoria rolled off the St. Thomas, Ontario assembly line today at 12:30PM local time, after 32 years of production - a record surpassing the Model T.


----------



## Monocrom

. . . And every single cab company owner in NYC is royally pissed. 

Honestly, I can't blame them. Those old Crown Vics and Grand Marques are absolute tanks. If I wasn't into sports cars, I'd own one myself. I honestly would. Sheer tanks able to easily do 200,000+ miles. You don't need crumple zones when you're driving a tank. 

Only downside, other than a lack of sporty performance, is that they don't handle too well in the snow. But if the weather is that bad, screw it! Stay home. A truly sad day for an American icon.


----------



## 5.0Trunk

Like someone said in a earlier post, here is a pic of my new project for us POOR folks... Next Thursday it's going in to have a FRPP/Whipple installed with a custom tune, should be ~550RWHP... Can't wait...


----------



## LukeA

Monocrom said:


> Only downside, other than a lack of sporty performance, is that they don't handle too well in the snow. But if the weather is that bad, screw it! Stay home...


That would be mostly the fault of the tires.


----------



## kwak

Absolutely pointless.
Absolutely fantastic 

:thumbsup:


----------



## TyJo

Nice video, GTR for the win.


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> The last Ford Crown Victoria rolled off the St. Thomas, Ontario assembly line today at 12:30PM local time, after 32 years of production - a record surpassing the Model T.


 
I considered getting one of these once, but good riddance to all Hotchkiss drive vehicles that don't have USDOT numbers on the sides. It's not 1979 anymore.


----------



## Monocrom

LukeA said:


> . . . It's not 1979 anymore.



In some ways, that's too bad.

Remember when cars didn't have crumple zones. Get into an accident, both you and your car would survive. Trunk space bigger than studio apartment nowadays. Full-sized adult could stretch out and fall asleep on the backseat. Yeah, 1979 wasn't a perfect year, but I'd honestly prefer it over 2011.


----------



## Jep

saw this saturday (4x4/off road jamboree was in town)


----------



## Jep

some pics i've taken at carshows in Indiana and Florida. im pretty much a fan of anything custom..

Florida


----------



## Jep

Indiana various shows over the years


----------



## Jep

hill climb Newport, IN. a few years ago


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## StarHalo

1200 horsepower, 70 to 215 mph:


----------



## Jep




----------



## Empath

Jep, your last post was removed due to being composed of several hot-linked images. Hot-linking is not permitted.

I haven't checked all your images, but any other hot-linked images will need to be removed.

As an addition point of information, your extended use of "tinypic" has been creating a situation for some of extended loading time. Some of the images don't load, but leaves the browsers in a state of constantly awaiting the images to load. I don't know the extent of the problem or the number of members having to deal with the situation.


----------



## StarHalo

Today on EBay: 2004 Ferrari FXX Evolution, 7 miles, 1 of 17.


----------



## Monocrom

7 miles???

The guy bought it, it was delivered, and after 7 miles he realized he couldn't fit into remotely comfortably??

One of the oddest listing I've ever seen on the Bay.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> The guy bought it, it was delivered, and after 7 miles he realized he couldn't fit into remotely comfortably??.


 
Oh that would be too easy - the guy bought it, and then even though it had been driven 7 miles or less at the time, he paid more to have the Evolution upgrade added to it. And then he somehow came in full possession of the car despite the fact that Ferrari doesn't allow FXX owners access to the cars outside of track days. And then he didn't do anything else with the car, because it's not street legal, and driving it on a non-Ferrari track day would have made news. 

Quite the mystery.


----------



## Monocrom

My gut tells me there's something wrong with that FXX . . . Something terribly wrong.


----------



## qip

gotta go my rides here 





Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## mossyoak

StarHalo said:


> Oh that would be too easy - the guy bought it, and then even though it had been driven 7 miles or less at the time, he paid more to have the Evolution upgrade added to it. And then he somehow came in full possession of the car despite the fact that Ferrari doesn't allow FXX owners access to the cars outside of track days. And then he didn't do anything else with the car, because it's not street legal, and driving it on a non-Ferrari track day would have made news.
> 
> Quite the mystery.


 

You realize the seller is Ferrari Maserarti of Fort Lauderdale right? Its legit I would imagine.

On their website they are offering a Collectors dream package of 6 cars, FXX included for $9 million


----------



## StarHalo

mossyoak said:


> You realize the seller is Ferrari Maserarti of Fort Lauderdale right? Its legit I would imagine.


 
The seller seems legit, but were FXXs originally sold by just putting one on the dealership floor and advertising it? It gives the impression that it's just being sold like any other car, that you could take it home on a flatbed like any other race car..


----------



## Monocrom

Knowing the type of attitude that you get from Ferrari, I'd be extremely skeptical that they'd even remotely consider allowing one of their authorized dealerships to just outright sell an FXX. Anyone buying that thing, regardless of who they are or how much money they have, I can see Ferrari turning them away from one of their tracks. Telling the owner he's not supposed to outright own one, and thus won't be allowed onto the track since it's not supposed to leave one of _their_ tracks, after having been purchased at a dealership.


----------



## bigjoe25ss

this is one that was built at a shop i used to work for its a 06 z06 that made 1265hp to the tires and through the stock exhaust its absolutely insane it will break the tires loose at 120mph


----------



## StarHalo

Crown Vic update: The final Ford Crown Victoria that rolled off the assembly line a couple of weeks ago has been delivered to Al Jazirah Ford of Saudi Arabia, where it will be permanently displayed on the showroom floor.


----------



## Monocrom

Very funny. You almost got me with that one.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Very funny.


 
True story bro; you have to admit it is kind of a princely car. And they really value the 3044 liters of interior space, apparently..


----------



## Monocrom

That's just wrong . . . 

Last of an American icon being sent there to sit on display. :shakehead


----------



## LukeA

Sent where? Where someone appreciates it?


----------



## Monocrom

LukeA said:


> Sent where? Where someone appreciates it?



You know what I mean.

Some things should be a certain way. I was in Wal-Mart today. Just out of curiosity, I checked out the small section where they sell American flags in different sizes. Even there, at Wal-Mart, every single flag was Made in America. Just saying . . . Some things should be a certain way.


----------



## StarHalo

Missing: 1978 Toyota Celica liftback; long ago in a galaxy far, far away, Twentieth Century Fox held a car giveaway promo for a new movie called "Star Wars" where they gave away this very custom Celica. Neither the VIN or the winner's name was recorded, and the car hasn't been seen since. There's probably quite a reward waiting for the current owner since this may be the most valuable Celica in existence..


----------



## Jep

thats only because people complained, i remember walmart having all kinda of USA branded stuff made in china..

anywho....

removed


----------



## Jep

removed


----------



## Monocrom

Jep said:


> thats only because people complained, i remember walmart having all kinda of USA branded stuff made in china..



They still do. My favorite item from Wally World is an oversized, glass, beer mug. Ironically also Made in America. 

BTW, that was one sweet jump. Who would have thought you could Dukes of Hazzard a Buick.


----------



## NewlandPhotography

StarHalo said:


> Less donk, more resto
> 
> "Red Devil" Pro Touring Camaro, 756hp, 1.0g skidpad


 
Gorgeous car! my mom has a 69 RS. (yes i said my mom).


----------



## bigjoe25ss

NewlandPhotography said:


> Gorgeous car! my mom has a 69 RS. (yes i said my mom).


 
thats funny my moms first car was a 69 ss-rs


----------



## NewlandPhotography

bigjoe25ss said:


> thats funny my moms first car was a 69 ss-rs


yea she bought it in the early 70s to deliver news papers then ended up racing it at the track every weekend.

this is her car:


----------



## Focusman

I like those cars varymuch,but I can't drive,'cause not is my!


----------



## jewlz

Monocrom said:


> That's just wrong . . .
> 
> Last of an American icon being sent there to sit on display. :shakehead



++1


----------



## vali

Drift button is for sissies... Real men don't even need handbrake to drift :devil:


----------



## Monocrom

Brakes??

What kind of punk uses brakes?


----------



## Acid87

Awesome ad. At least the guy has thought about the ad. The worrying thing is that the guy is probably like this in real life.


----------



## Empath

Launch_Mini, your post was removed because you neglected to consider that we're a family forum. Vulgarity does not become acceptable by simply replacing a letter or two of offending words with symbols or other letters. We still know what it says and means.


----------



## StarHalo

The next Mazda 6 will look something like this, the Takeri concept that will debut at next month's Tokyo Auto Show:


----------



## Acid87

StarHalo said:


> The next Mazda 6 will look something like this, the Takeri concept that will debut at next month's Tokyo Auto Show:



That is one sweet looking car. Bit of a BMW Aston martin vibe to it.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> The next Mazda 6 will look something like this, the Takeri concept that will debut at next month's Tokyo Auto Show:



That is freaking hideous!!

Who's the blind, hippo-loving, SOB who came up with that design?!

I am not only glad I bought my Mazda6 V6 when it came out, but I'm very thankful that it came out in 2009. Created during the last year of the old grill design. Right before 2010 when somebody high up in the company decided to pay tribute to Batman's Joker with those hideous grinning front ends. 

I didn't think Mazda could come up with an uglier front end. Wow was I so incredibly wrong! :sick2:


----------



## LukeA

That's a fine looking car. 

I see the Aston Martin inspiration in the chrome window surround and in the haunch over the rear wheel. The front brings to my mind new Volvos, which look great with the agressive look their front fascias give them. And connecting the front to the back are the flowing but assertive lines that Infiniti has aimed for but not quite hit.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Man that car looks like it ought to be RWD. And I think it looks gorgeous.



StarHalo said:


> The next Mazda 6 will look something like this, the Takeri concept that will debut at next month's Tokyo Auto Show:


----------



## Monocrom

Front-end looks like a horribly wounded hippo that came onto land.


----------



## Lite_me

I think it looks exquisite! I have two of the "Batman's Joker" models and it doesn't bother me one bit. :nana:


----------



## Monocrom

Lite_me said:


> I think it looks exquisite! I have two of the "Batman's Joker" models and it doesn't bother me one bit. :nana:



Honestly, doesn't bother me either. You can own whatever you like. 

I don't have to look at them.


----------



## StarHalo

Happy 100th birthday Chevrolet


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Happy 100th birthday Chevrolet



Aww . . . Cute little thing. Wonder what it'll look like when it's all grown up.


----------



## DamnYankee

My old truck....I miss it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAMhpTyi4JM


----------



## StarHalo

RBR said:


> Is that one of their new "world cars" ?





Monocrom said:


> Aww . . . Cute little thing. Wonder what it'll look like when it's all grown up.



That's a Chevy Sonic, America's first actually competitive subcompact car; 138 turbocharged hp, 40mpg, quieter and more comfortable than anything else in the segment..


----------



## Monocrom

You know . . . It actually *is *adorable.


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## StarHalo

RBR said:


> It though looks like a Korean car made for the US market.



Manufactured at the General Motors Orion Township Assembly Plant, Detroit, Michigan (see, surprising!)


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## StarHalo

Today on EBay: 1986 Ford RS200 Evolution, 600hp, 192 miles, 1 of 24.


----------



## StarHalo

Verified by GM - 2014 Corvette; same 6.2L engine, new 7 speed transmission, no split window or mid engine:


----------



## Monocrom

If it was mid-engined, it wouldn't be a Corvette.

I like it. The design is one that takes awhile to sink in. Once it does, the more you look at; the better it looks each time. 

I'm just gonna look at it some more. :huh:


----------



## orbital

^^

Lines are too sharp, looks like a Cadillac, 
a few too many bits (duck tail) make it look Camaro'ish

Vetts always have had* round *taillights, these again look toooo Camaro'ish

.....more like an interns fantasy drawing of "three cars in one"


_*If I win the lottery, the first thing I'm gettin' is a 2012 gray metallic Z06 w/ matte black wheels *_:devil::devil:


----------



## StarHalo

Most of the pony cars got updated overnight, some highlights;


Pricing for the Caddy V-powered 580hp Camaro ZL1 is $55,000; 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, 184 mph, 1.0G skidpad:






All Mustangs have slightly revised front ends, and GT now has 420hp, so the base V8 is barely 20hp shy of the Boss; there's also a new Track Pack, which includes the 3.73 axle and the Boss' limited slip diff, plus track apps for the in dash system, which includes your very own drag light tree:






The Boss keeps its 444hp engine but gets new striping and hood vents, some suspension revision, and Sync is standard:






The Shelby GT500 now has 650hp - that's not a typo, it has 100 more horsepower in a single year update. And it should be able to nudge the 200 mph mark. It would appear the ZL1 has been upstaged before it even reached the dealerships:


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> . . . includes your very own drag light tree:



Ah, they went too far with that. LOL !

Much hate for that.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Ah, they went too far with that. LOL !



It is a bit goofy, but you can set the display to view a wide variety of car parameters, a la the Nissan Skyline. And besides, if they could have figured out a way to put a light tree in the old muscle cars, wouldn't they have? This is sort of like this generation's hood-mounted tachometer..


----------



## LukeA

2012 Corvette Grand-Am Daytona Prototype


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> It is a bit goofy, but you can set the display to view a wide variety of car parameters, a la the Nissan Skyline. And besides, if they could have figured out a way to put a light tree in the old muscle cars, wouldn't they have? This is sort of like this generation's hood-mounted tachometer..



Here's my response . . . 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbW_e4g5-bk


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Here's my response . . .



I'm fine with it as long as it's optional; the young folk do love their light-up gewgaws and doodads. Sync should definitely not be on the Boss though, hell even the radio is a questionable option there..


----------



## StarHalo

LukeA said:


> 2012 Corvette Grand-Am Daytona Prototype



Hot damn, round taillights and a split window!


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> I'm fine with it as long as it's optional; the young folk do love their light-up gewgaws and doodads. Sync should definitely not be on the Boss though, hell even the radio is a questionable option there..



Definitely agree with you there. Perhaps they'll do what Porsche currently does, and charge you more to leave more of the options on the shelf.


----------



## orbital

LukeA said:


> 2012 Corvette Grand-Am Daytona Prototype



+

*Proper prototype, still has a true Vette look.*.:thumbsup:

Interested to see what engine displacement is used.
If it's a 6.2L, Grand Am may limit it to a 5-speed. 
(sure you can use a tall first gear w/ a 5-speed, but that'[s still tricky to gear)

Guessing it'll be a small_er_ block ~ 6-speed


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## LukeA

Chrysler 300 426S











7 liter 426 crate motor, 540 naturally-aspirated horsepower, 530lb-ft

They're just using it to gauge interest and the hood window is just for the autoshow. I'd buy one if they made it.


----------



## StarHalo

LukeA said:


> Chrysler 300 426S
> 
> 7 liter 426 crate motor, 540 naturally-aspirated horsepower, 530lb-ft



The Challenger's 392 might be the more obvious choice, but they're taking aim at the Caddy V series, as they should. Then Ford would just have to put last year's GT500 engine in the Taurus and we'd have a serious three-way race..


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> The Challenger's 392 might be the more obvious choice, but they're taking aim at the Caddy V series, as they should. Then Ford would just have to put last year's GT500 engine in the Taurus and we'd have a serious three-way race..



The 392 is essentially already in the SRT8, unless I'm mistaken. 392ci is 6.4L. Of course, the headers and heads and stuff may be different. I haven't looked that up.

If by "Taurus" you mean "Falcon", then heck yes. They actually already sell the Falcon with a supercharged 5.0. 

JUST PUT THE STEERING WHEEL ON THE OTHER SIDE AND BRING THE CAR OVER ALREADY FORD


----------



## glendayle

My truck.....that I just sold. Looking for a replacement.


----------



## StarHalo

Toyota GT 86, production copy; 2.0L 197hp Subaru-sourced boxer engine:












Subaru BRZ, production copy; engine not confirmed:


----------



## FroggyTaco

I think the Subie looks better and according the recent Car & Driver article the car is largely been developed by Subie with funding assistance from Toyota.

p.s. Dont forget it's RWD and direct injection!


----------



## StarHalo

Might help if I posted the one that will actually be sold in America, the Scion FR-S:






Apparently the Scion gets to keep the "86" badge:






Also, the Subaru BRZ GT300:


----------



## LukeA

The race-prepped one looks like a Gumpert Apollo.


----------



## orbital

^

That's a proper diffuser on the BRZ, 

Subaru needs to race full-on in the States,.. ST or maybe even GS class in _Rolex Series_


----------



## StarHalo

Yes or no: Custom 1960 Cadillac


----------



## Monocrom

No . . . Unless it's on hydraulics and that's simply the lowest setting.


----------



## StarHalo

Detroit Auto Show preview: 2013 Dodge Dart, replacing the Caliber and apologizing for the Neon..


----------



## Monocrom

I rode in the 2nd Gen. Dodge Neon numerous times. My best friend owned it. It was a surprisingly good compact car. Very underrated from what I experienced.

That car also helped him survive a horrific head-on collision with a large SUV.


----------



## StarHalo

The actual Detroit Auto Show: 2013 Ford Fusion, Ford is starting to take this whole car-making thing very seriously:


----------



## StarHalo

Return of the Integra; Civic-based Acura ILX concept, built alongside the Civic in Greensburg, Indiana:






Also in Pony car news: Shelby is showing some 50th Anniversary models, and has announced that the 650hp GT500 will have launch control, which should even things nicely with the Corvette ZR1. What's being overlooked is the entry-level GTS model, which is available with the V6 tuned to 475hp - resulting in a more powerful and lighter Mustang than the stock GT at about the same price. And this is the new shade of "Gotta Have It Green" available from the factory on the Boss:


----------



## orbital

+

2013 Boxster

now,,, where did I put the phone number to RUF


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> 2013 Boxster
> 
> now,,, where did I put the phone number to RUF



There's some interesting squaring-off of the headlights going on up front, it looks like the Boxster is moving ever closer to the Carrera GT mold. And from this angle at least, there's the implication of a rump starting to form..


----------



## fivemega

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btViXvIDsi0


----------



## StarHalo

fivemega said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btViXvIDsi0



Picked this up for my boys at Target the other day:


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## 5.0Trunk

Here is my new toy, 2011 5.0 . I have done a few cosmetic mods, but the most recent mod is the install of a Whipple. Car runs strong!

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## StarHalo

A Presidential decision we can all get behind: the President takes the helm of the new 650-hp Shelby GT500:


----------



## Monocrom

Damn, that sweet ride can make anyone look bad-***. :thumbsup:


----------



## Tim33

I'm drooling over that Shelby! What a beautiful car man.


----------



## dozerdogue

My 2011 Shelby gt500 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGm3L-0lyMw&context=C3a6f8d9ADOEgsToPDskKICjRVKBMH8YEia2Ye53AQ


----------



## dozerdogue

My shelby Gt500 video clip


----------



## BigBen

I don't think I've posted it here yet.
This is my '71 Pro-Street Monte Carlo SS.













Blown 565 cu in Big Block


----------



## StarHalo

BigBen said:


> This is my '71 Pro-Street Monte Carlo SS.



Pretty boss; can you drive it on the street there? It'd definitely be a no-go in Cali..


----------



## Dr Evil

I currently own a 97 F150 4wd and a 2009 Mazda 6. I'm probably going to sell off the truck and get a 03 or 04 F150 when I return home. I don't have a need for 4wd anymore and I need a back seat. I'm tired of having my dog in the front with me and there is no way in hell I'd let him in the car.



StarHalo said:


> A Presidential decision we can all get behind: the President takes the helm of the new 650-hp Shelby GT500:



:twothumbs


This is my dream car. 1968 Corvette L88. Manual transmission of course.


----------



## BigBen

StarHalo said:


> Pretty boss; can you drive it on the street there? It'd definitely be a no-go in Cali..



Thank you very much StarHalo, I appreciate the kind words.
I mostly drive it to & from the car shows or just take it for a cruise, haven't had any issues since the project was done in ~2000 (knock on wood).

BigBen


----------



## StarHalo

The legendary Fiat Super Bowl ad, just in case you missed it:


----------



## Monocrom

Super Bowl Ad??

I've watched that Ad numerous times on youtube for the past couple of months. Didn't post a link to it in the "Interesting vids" topic because I thought it was just a bit too risque. 

Also, considering ABARTH's history, the woman should have been a young and insane punk rocker chick.


----------



## bstrickler

Man, 32 pages, and the Fiero wasn't mentioned once?

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/3468/2181/33668590002_large.jpg

I <3 mine! 934th Fiero ever made!

Might have a pic of mine up after I remove the drivers stripe the previous owner put on it (was a **** poor idea of theirs).

Also would LOVE to have a 1969 Holden Hurricane!

http://www.autowallpaperhd.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Holden-Hurricane-Concept-1969-2.jpg


----------



## StarHalo

bstrickler said:


> Man, 32 pages, and the Fiero wasn't mentioned once?



It recently became available to download and drive on Forza 4; it's beautifully balanced, probably my favorite Pontiac for getting around a track..


----------



## bstrickler

Blech, GT. I <3 my notchie. 

Handling on the cars is very good, in my opinion. the brakes are very lacking, though. Nothing a $300-$400 upgrade wont fix.


----------



## StarHalo

bstrickler said:


> Blech, GT.



It's the only one that can keep up with this guy:


----------



## bstrickler

StarHalo said:


> It's the only one that can keep up with this guy:
> 
> *pic deleted*



I just never liked the body of the GT. Looks like a ricer car.

Notchback or the 1990 prototype are my favorite body styles. Just wish they did something else for the nose. It just doesn't look right, in my opinion.


----------



## StarHalo

Ferrari F620 GT, 740hp; the replacement for the 599, will debut next month at the Geneva Motor show:


----------



## orbital

^^


ahhhhhhh!,,,finally some smoother car lines (shape) from Italy.
Is it me or does it look slightly Vette'ish?

nevertheless:thumbsup:


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Is it me or does it look slightly Vette'ish?



That would put Ferrari a step ahead, since the new Vette will look like the old 599. But the output numbers suggest the 620 is aiming at the Pagani Huayra..


----------



## orbital

^

It's never just about numbers, if it were, Vipers would be unstoppable.
Unfortunately they don't get around a track for _*svdt$5_

I'm all about front engined cars from Maranello, but I can get two Vetts & spare parts for the price,
beat the crap out of one and have another as _*backup*_.


_I'll never forget the 550 GT1 going toe-toe with a Z06 GT1 at Road America several years back,..absolutely purist racing. _


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Vipers would be unstoppable.
> Unfortunately they don't get around a track for _*svdt$5_



The first-gen ones, no, but Car and Driver ran the most recent Viper ACR in their Lightning Lap event in 2008, and there hasn't been a production car since that has come near its lap time; not the Ferraris, the Lamborghinis, the Porsches..


----------



## orbital

^

*The Mosler MT900S has the record.*
Really, you need to test several different tracks to get best overall performance profile.
~ a fast car at Barber may be slowish at VIR ect..

What would be interesting, the best overall times at 5 different tracks & compare that to price.

The Viper goes like a rocket down straits, it really does.
...but hard braking, mid corner speed & power off corner always look awkward when seeing them race in real life.
It's like the engine is too far forward or something, its hard to explain.

I've seen a Viper completely loose its brakes coming to into Canada Corner, probably doing 160+ going strait into tire barriers...oo:
there was an absolute explosion of tires & water that gets trapped in tire barriers, I'll never forget the sound if impact.


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> *The Mosler MT900S has the record.*



But it's not a _production_ car; there's a slew of boutique cars that would be able to set the record, the aforementioned Huayra, or Zonda Cinque, the Gumpert Apollo, the Radical, etc. The Ferrari 620 will be very near the performance levels of the Paganis, and will be the first road-legal Ferrari to outpace the Enzo around a track.


----------



## TyJo

I'd like to see the Nissan GTR in such a competition.


----------



## StarHalo

TyJo said:


> I'd like to see the Nissan GTR in such a competition.



The GT-R has made an appearance at Car and Driver's Lightning Lap three times to date, since Nissan constantly updates it; it of course does fantastic for its price class, a 2011 copy coming in between the Lambo Murcielago 670 and Gallardo Superleggera 570, one-tenth of a second behind the track-toy KTM XBow, and just ahead of the Ferrari 430 Scuderia (!). But it's behind the Corvette ZR1, and because of how its price has inflated, does not have the price-to-performance ratio of a Corvette Grand Sport or Boss Mustang. It's nearly five seconds off the pace of the Viper ACR, a significant margin for a ~3 minute track.

Motor Trend had an '09 GT-R for one of their Laguna Lap events at Laguna Seca; their '07 Porsche 911 GT3 slightly bested it, yet Car and Driver's GT3 RS has never surpassed the Nissan. Their record holder is again a '10 Viper ACR, second place is.. an '08 Viper ACR.


----------



## orbital

+

*Lightning Lap 2012* 

From Car & Driver 2012: http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...plete-lightning-lap-times-2006-to-2012-page-8


----------



## Launch Mini

Take a look at the Nurburgring times. Another prestigious track where most, if not all, cars try their best.
Viper ranks up in the top 10 Production Cars.
http://whoartnow.hubpages.com/hub/Top-10-Fastest-Nurburgring-Laps-Production-Cars this looks like an old post
Here is the current version

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nürburgring_lap_times


----------



## StarHalo

Launch Mini said:


> Take a look at the Nurburgring times.



Looks pretty solid, except the Pagani should be ahead of the Viper. And there is the possibility of the GT-R outrunning the Viper here since there are so few tight turns; lots of broad sweepers and straights to give a high-horsepower AWD car an advantage. Also, the Radical could in theory turn a faster time with some fidgeting with the gearing. The one in the video has the final gear set as an overdrive, and the stock Radical hits redline at ~155 mph with some power to spare.

Not sure how the LF-A or Z06 got so high on the Wikipedia list..


----------



## StarHalo

Ferrari's official unveiling today revealed that this is not the "F620" but is the F12berlinetta; it's 730hp and has indeed set the record on the Fiorano course for a roadgoing Ferrari..


----------



## Monocrom

That backside is hideous!


----------



## lightknot

Monocrom said:


> That backside is hideous!



Agreed.


----------



## orbital

+

*One of my all time favorites,..the 550*
Took these photos @ ALMS race weekend 8 or 9 years ago









Street version: ^^







GTS {GT1} race version: ^^
..note the roof air intake ~ _trick_


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> *One of my all time favorites,..the 550*



The 550 always looked too _calm_, had a nice options list though (Superamerica!)



Monocrom said:


> That backside is hideous!



But it's got a _genuine F1 taillight_! It is a little alien though, it strikes me as a "styling direction" that will evolve into something really unique, but it's just not there yet. It'll be interesting to see where they go with it. In the meantime, get used to seeing that backend - Ferrari Enzos, Porsche Carrera GTs, Lambo Murcielagos will all be looking at it..


----------



## StarHalo

Lamborghini Unica, a one-off topless Aventador:


----------



## Monocrom

No windshield??

I don't care if you're Brad Pitt in an Armani suit with an Omega Speedmaster strapped to your wrist and Angelina sitting next to you . . . No one looks cool while wearing goggles.


----------



## StarHalo

German tri-axle two-stroke diesel tank transport converted into a roadster:


----------



## Lit Up

Can't leave out one of the greatest movie intros off all time:


----------



## StarHalo

Yes or no: Printed tires


----------



## Monocrom

Painted tires . . . :thumbsdow


----------



## StarHalo

She loves to be seen in the ol' Mercedes..


----------



## Monocrom

No excuse for leaving bird poop on a classic.


----------



## It01Firefox

I don't see a classic, cause that's no Merc.
But you can't blame a guy for trying


----------



## orbital

Looks like a K car ^ maYBE?:duh2:

..when I first looked at that pic, something looked really wrong


----------



## StarHalo

Rolls-Royce Phantom B12 Hearse by Biemme:


----------



## don.gwapo

Going on the other side the luxurious way.


----------



## orbital

+

_ Snatched this photo last summer;
_
Valued somewhere in the range of {$xxxxxx} 
...yep, it's the real deal


----------



## Monocrom

don.gwapo said:


> Going on the other side the luxurious way.



LOL

They can try to make it different. But Death itself will always remain the Great Equalizer. Doesn't matter if you surround a body with dirt or marble. It's still a body.


----------



## 5.0Trunk

dozerdogue said:


> My 2011 Shelby gt500 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGm3L-0lyMw&context=C3a6f8d9ADOEgsToPDskKICjRVKBMH8YEia2Ye53AQ



Dozerdouge, are you a member on any of the mustang forums? If so, which ones and what's your user name?
Those are some nice numbers you're laying down there!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk stuff!


----------



## deckofficer

Two of my rides. The Track-T tips the scales at 1790 lbs, is powered by a purpose built 383 stroker sbc, Tremec TKO 600 5 speed with 0.64 OD, going into a Jaq IRS 3.54 with inboard disc brakes. After 40 years of hot rods, this is my Swiss Army knife of hot rods, it corners better than my Corvette, runs a 10.8 @ 132 mph without speed shifting, and can break 30 mpg at 65 mph on a level highway.





On the dyno in SE Arizona, producing 516 lb/ft at just 2800 rpm.





I have had this ride on the road for 18 years and drive it all over the country, at Yosemite National Park.





Since I did a complete engine cover and tucked the exhaust under the car, most folks assume it is powered by a 2.3 L Pinto 4-banger. Notice the bulges in the side cover to shoehorn the sbc in?





This is high tall I geared it for quiet and economical highway cruising, notice speed vs rpm





This is the LED backup light I fabricated for it, held in place by a magnet and has a coiled cord, so it can double as a trouble light.















And my store bought 2011 CTS-V, 556 hp 6 speed stick


----------



## deckofficer

double post


----------



## TEEJ

All I could think of was "Maybe Rain-X?"



For me at least, it helps the bugs slough off better.

:sick2:


----------



## deckofficer

Those bugs sure have a death wish.


----------



## TEEJ

With a windshield coming at them ~ 120 mph...the last thing to go through a bugs mind was its A hole.


----------



## deckofficer

Don't get me wrong, 99.9% of the time I just putz along at a pace that reflects my age.


----------



## TEEJ

deckofficer said:


> Don't get me wrong, 99.9% of the time I just putz along at a pace that reflects my age.



LOL

Looks like 45 years old on the speedo, and 10 years old on the tach...chronological vs emotional?

(For me, I'd have to move the speedo to the right, but the tach's probably pretty close.....)


----------



## deckofficer

59 chronological, your correct on the emotional. lol
As to the placement of the tach, your right again, for the track it should be on the left.


----------



## TEEJ

deckofficer said:


> 59 chronological, your correct on the emotional. lol
> As to the placement of the tach, your right again, for the track it should be on the left.



LOL

I meant for ME the speedo read low but the tach read about right....(#'s...not location...) if speedo was chronological/tach = emotional. (Also born in the '50's...)



But, yeah, for track...we'd swap'm normally....I guess the double entendre was weaker than I'd hoped.


----------



## deckofficer

But now on to the subject matter of this forum, I believe my Big Bruiser will fit nicely into my fabricated glove compartment below the gauges, right?


----------



## TEEJ

Looks like an easy fit from here at least. My BB is only ~ 6" long...that spot looks larger at least.



Can you mount it so the beam shines out through ahead of you?


----------



## deckofficer

It is just to be used as a flashlight. Short run time at probably 20 minutes.


----------



## TEEJ

I was teasing, as you mentioned needing forward lighting...

On the other hand, I have 6 cells for my Bruiser.

:naughty:


----------



## deckofficer

You have any pictures of your Bruiser in action vs anything else?


----------



## TEEJ

deckofficer said:


> You have any pictures of your Bruiser in action vs anything else?



I do somewhere...I think I posted them on the Elektro Lumens beam shot section?

(CPFM closed now of course...)





Dark Control







Flash Control







Big Bruiser







$sevens S18







Flash Control 2






Dark Control 2







Big Bruiser







S18


----------



## don.gwapo

This thread is about cars not flashlight nor beamshots! :shakehead.


----------



## deckofficer

I'm sorry, I asked for it. Back to cars.....
Yours truly





At the same time Mary Ann was taking the above picture on hwy 395 northbound between Carson City and Reno, Nevada.


----------



## StarHalo

I dig the Track-T's sedan-length wheelbase; I'd wager it drifts through a turn just as comfortably as the Caddy..


----------



## deckofficer

StarHalo said:


> I dig the Track-T's sedan-length wheelbase; I'd wager it drifts through a turn just as comfortably as the Caddy..



Well, your going to think *"what a waste of a CTS-V"* when I tell you I only drive it for trips in good weather (maybe once a month at most), and I have always left the traction nanny on, so no drifts. The T is different, it corners flat not because of modern tech, i.e. magnetic ride suspension like the V, but rather low and old tech of mounting the engine/transmission so low in the frame rails that the CG is at spindle height, so no moment-arm to even cause lean. To give you a rough idea, if I used a stock sbc oil pan, it would have 3/4" of clearance to the road surface.

Took dear old dad for a day trip to Yosemite. He is 92, and because of that magnetic ride and the bolstered Racaro seats, he had no idea a typical slow to 35 curve we were slicing through at 60. Plus those 556 puppies may growl a little on the outside under heavy throttle, things stay quiet and serene inside the cockpit.


----------



## StarHalo

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd leave the traction control on most of the time with the Caddy too. That's the great thing about the V-series though; it's every bit the sports car when hustled, but when you drive slowly, it's a Cadillac..


----------



## deckofficer

I'm a bit jaded on straight line performance, so the CTS-V to me, is not that fast, but for a heavy car, it is very toss-able in the corners and unlike any other factory super car I've owned, has a firm but non jarring ride with those factory short side wall tires. Have to hand it to GM, they did some good engineering. I hear Ferrari is using the same system on a license agreement.


----------



## StarHalo

New York Auto Show preview: 2012 Shelby Mustang 1000, 950 hp street, 1100 hp race; engine keeps the stock GT500's block and replaces everything else..


----------



## Monocrom

Front-end looks kinda like a beached whale.


----------



## StarHalo

New York Auto Show _leak_: 2013 Viper


----------



## Monocrom

Any numbers on that bad boy? :huh:


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Any numbers on that bad boy? :huh:



We'll find out at 11:55 EST..


----------



## StarHalo

8.4 L V10 makes 640 hp and 600 lb-ft of torque, the most torque of any naturally-aspirated production engine. Launch control is new, as is a GTS package which features power options and leather everything interior.


----------



## trevordurden

Those cars are just toys. This is a REAL car:






Unfortunately I don't know the name of it, otherwise I'd build 3 of them.


----------



## orbital

^GTS

Am I the only person on the planet who despises chrome wheels?!?

//////////


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Am I the only person on the planet who despises chrome wheels?!?



It's polished aluminum, also available in gloss or matte black. Base model will be five-spoke, the GTS will be the above-pictured split six-spoke, and the SRT track package will get its own unique superlight wheels.

Edit: More power and less weight over the old Viper means this new one has a better power-to-weight ratio than a Corvette ZR1 or a Lambo Aventador..

The GTS package includes a Harman Kardon 36 volt, 18 speaker sound system - side exhaust and windows down be damned, you're gonna hear it:


----------



## Monocrom

I'm happy they put the emergency brake towards the passenger side. In the past Chrysler has screwed up in that regard.


----------



## StarHalo

RIP Ferdinand Porsche


----------



## orbital

+

*The Porsche 961,..a cross between a 959 & 962*





_^^^ If they only continued this racing platform_


----------



## Gregozedobe

trevordurden said:


> Those cars are just toys. This is a REAL car:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I don't know the name of it, otherwise I'd build 3 of them.



That is a cut-down (really cut-down !) BMC mini (or one of the many badge-engineered variants). The donor car was designed by Alec Issigonis, was one of the first truly efficiently-packaged FWD cars, and the predecessor to many a FWD "hatch". Put a hotted up Cooper S engine into something that small and light and you could have some fun (and probably scare yourself witless as well).


----------



## TEEJ

I think it just needs a hole in the floor for your feet, a la the Flintstones...or pedals?


----------



## StarHalo

At yesterday's Gran Turismo Nurburgring supercar meet, one of the owners (not a pro or amateur driver, just a car owner) drove his Koenigsegg Agera R to 250 mph on the main straight.


----------



## Empath

A few posts dealing in political rhetoric were removed.


----------



## StarHalo

Take your Honda CR-V to the Nurburgring! (and leave it there!) Skip to 1:00..


----------



## StarHalo

Mazda 3 problem solved: just body color paint the grille:


----------



## StarHalo

True story: Maybach is offering a $100,000 instant rebate on the purchase of any Maybach through the end of the year, possibly the largest rebate offer in history.


----------



## Monocrom

Where's my checkbook?!


----------



## StarHalo

Beijing Auto Show preview; Lamborghini SUV:


----------



## Monocrom

Oh Hell No!!!!

Will that abomination go away if I throw some Holy Water on it? A company known for making Super Cars that push the envelope of performance, coming out with an SUV?? Whoever thought that up, should be fired! . . . After being brutally beaten with a rubber hose. :thumbsdow


----------



## mossyoak

Monocrom said:


> Oh Hell No!!!!
> 
> Will that abomination go away if I throw some Holy Water on it? A company known for making Super Cars that push the envelope of performance, coming out with an SUV?? Whoever thought that up, should be fired! . . . After being brutally beaten with a rubber hose. :thumbsdow



you act like this is something new for lamborghini.


----------



## StarHalo

mossyoak said:


> you act like this is something new for lamborghini.



I'd be a lot more comfortable with it if it were the new LM 002; in many ways it's inevitable that they have at least one SUV - Porsche's Cayenne by itself represents half of all Porsche sales, so there's no way any manufacturer could just overlook the segment (which is ironic since this SUV will be built on the Cayenne platform, it will actually draw off some Porsche buyers..)


----------



## orbital

mossyoak said:


> you act like this is something new for lamborghini.



+

I saw the LM002 at Pike's Peak Hill Climb in the late 80's,
think it was one of the first in the US.

...it would have been fast if it weighed 2500 lbs. less


----------



## Monocrom

mossyoak said:


> you act like this is something new for lamborghini.



Nope! More along the lines of they made the same mistake already, and now should know better. Should have learned from the last time. But here they are, doing it again. It's one thing if someone messes up because they honestly don't know any better. Quite a bit different though if they do.


----------



## tino_ale

Doesn't change the fact that it will most probably be a commercial success :shrug:


----------



## Monocrom

tino_ale said:


> Doesn't change the fact that it will most probably be a commercial success :shrug:



Yup . . . Plenty of sad, pathetic, wanna-bees out there who would shake in their boots if they climbed into a real Lambo. They tend not to be very forgiving if you make a mistake. Requires some real skill to drive one properly. With an SUV, all you need to do is go in a straight line. The adult equivalent of bolting on training wheels to a child's Schwinn.


----------



## orbital

Monocrom said:


> Yup . . . Plenty of sad, pathetic, wanna-bees out there who would shake in their boots if they climbed into a real Lambo. They tend not to be very forgiving if you make a mistake. Requires some real skill to drive one properly. With an SUV, all you need to do is go in a straight line. The adult equivalent of bolting on training wheels to a child's Schwinn.



Porsche Cayenne @ Nurburgring w/o training wheels.

^ Take note of the proper apexing


----------



## deckofficer

I'd like to give this one a go..


----------



## StarHalo

deckofficer said:


> I'd like to give this one a go..



[email protected] is unbeatable against those 2006 models, but don't try it against the current crop of supercars. I'd still go for one though, there definitely need to be more electric track toy cars..

Edit: Now that I look it up, the Porsche can manage a 11.2 second run, but only from an almost impossible perfect launch from a dead stop; that's probably why the Porsche driver opted for the rolling start, but it's ultimately slower that way.


----------



## deckofficer

StarHalo said:


> [email protected] is unbeatable against those 2006 models, but don't try it against the current crop of supercars. I'd still go for one though, there definitely need to be more electric track toy cars..



Yep, that ride's battery bank could power some LEDs.


----------



## StarHalo

deckofficer said:


> Yep, that ride's battery bank could power some LEDs.



I'd think this '34 Ford with 800 electric horsepower would be more your style..


----------



## EZO

Concept Cars of the Past


----------



## StarHalo

EZO said:


> Concept Cars of the Past



Still waiting on those big fins..


----------



## StarHalo

The Top Marques Monaco event; a cornucopia of the ultra-exotic boutique cars you won't see reviewed or driven or even mentioned anywhere ever again. The entry fee is $75, and the Monaco Grand Prix circuit is the test drive track where you can ride along in some of the featured cars, to decide if you want to buy..

Roding Roadster






Rimac Electric






GTA Spano






Sperrer KTMX 4






Hamann Memor R






Mansory Siracusa






Savagerivale GTR4






Tushek Renovatio 2






Gemballa Mistrale


----------



## jabe1

I've had varying success posting pictures, so can someone get a pic up of the Jeep J-12? If you've seen it, you'll understand.

There hasn't been a concept in a while that had me looking to save nickles and dimes, but Jeep has done it.


----------



## StarHalo

Jeep J-12; be aware that this is one among many in a long string of concepts Jeep brings to the Moab Safari every year, and like all the others, the odds that it will see production are statistically zero. Kind of a shame since no one makes an actual compact truck anymore, so the segment could be theirs for the taking..


----------



## Monocrom

Ford discontinued the Ranger? And Mazda the B-series truck? Are those twins both gone? Thought they were still making them.


----------



## StarHalo

There is a Ford Ranger, but it's not sold in the US, and it's 90% of the size of an F150 anyway. And Mazda currently offers only the CX series crossovers and Tribute SUV truck-wise.


----------



## EZO

It really is a shame to see the demise of the compact pick-up, especially in these days of high gas prices and what have been relatively meager increases in fuel efficiency over the years. It seems so counterintuitive. 
I've been driving Toyota pick-ups for many years and they are indeed excellent trucks but they just keep getting bigger and bigger. 

True compact pick-ups were first introduced in the 1950s, like the 1958 1000cc Datsun; one of the first.


----------



## StarHalo

Now that the car industry is universally agreed that the 4-cylinder engine is the way forward, this would be the ideal time for Jeep to bring back the Forward Control design; sits high like an SUV, loads low like a flatbed, and does it all using half the gas and space of a current full-size truck..


----------



## zenbeam

And when it's decided that 3 cylinder is the way forward... I am ready! Meet the bumble bee.... our 2008 Smart For Two "Passion". Almost had this bugger 4 years already! I still prefer my '06 Mustang overall, but none the less, the bumble bee is a fun weekend car!


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> There is a Ford Ranger, but it's not sold in the US, and it's 90% of the size of an F150 anyway. And Mazda currently offers only the CX series crossovers and Tribute SUV truck-wise.



Darn! Looks like used would be the only option. Thanks for the heads-up.


----------



## StarHalo

zenbeam said:


> our 2008 Smart For Two "Passion".



Shaq loves his..


----------



## Monocrom

Of course he does.

When he's done motoring about, he can just step out of the car, pick it up, put it in his front pocket; and go about his day. :thumbsup:


----------



## StarHalo

zenbeam said:


> And when it's decided that 3 cylinder is the way forward...



Should also mention - Car & Driver recently reviewed the new Ford three-cylinder Ecoboost engine, and ruled it better in every way than the 4-cylinder it replaces. 1.0 liter/61 cubic inches making 123 hp, 148 lb ft of torque, and 40+ MPG in the Focus.. That would certainly make the Four Two more interesting, adding more than 50 hp with the same size engine..


----------



## zenbeam

StarHalo said:


> Should also mention - Car & Driver recently reviewed the new Ford three-cylinder Ecoboost engine, and ruled it better in every way than the 4-cylinder it replaces. 1.0 liter/61 cubic inches making 123 hp, 148 lb ft of torque, and 40+ MPG in the Focus.. That would certainly make the Four Two more interesting, adding more than 50 hp with the same size engine..



I sure wouldn't mind around 50 more horses in the bumblebee! It's actually pretty peppy as is - given the lighter weight than a Focus.


----------



## EZO

Peugeot RCZ 
Presenter: Flora Polis


----------



## orbital

+

_*American made 7 Liter cabriolet*_


----------



## StarHalo

EZO said:


> Peugeot RCZ



I'm surprised Ferrari didn't beat them to it, the Italians already have LCD blackout windows. And strange that they only demoed those colors, rather than more traditional/coveted shades, the prototype must be limited in the number of colors it can do..



orbital said:


> _*American made 7 Liter cabriolet*_



They should have done a Z06 convertible when Cadillac released the XLR-V; I'd go with red stripes and interior..


----------



## StarHalo

Saw one of these on the road the yesterday; it's bigger than I thought it'd be, roughly the size of a 90's-era Mustang.


----------



## Monocrom

Is that the new KIA Forte?


----------



## orbital

^ 

That Subaru BRZ needs a big turbo


----------



## Burgess

Peugeot RCZ 


This is EXACTLY what I need for my Bank-Robbing getaway vehicle !


The APB will specify a RED car, and I'll be driving a BLUE one ! ! !


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !

(evil maniacal laughter)


Splendid !

:devil:


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> I'm surprised Ferrari didn't beat them to it, the Italians already have LCD blackout windows. And strange that they only demoed those colors, rather than more traditional/coveted shades, the prototype must be limited in the number of colors it can do..



If you stop the vid at 3 secs you'll see that it was demonstrated on the 1st of April 

It was a Aprils fools joke


----------



## EZO

kwak said:


> If you stop the vid at 3 secs you'll see that it was demonstrated on the 1st of April
> 
> It was a Aprils fools joke



And the lovely presenter's name is Flora Polis! - (Flora Polis = April Fools)....at 8-12 secs


----------



## Monocrom

Burgess said:


> Peugeot RCZ
> 
> 
> This is EXACTLY what I need for my Bank-Robbing getaway vehicle !
> 
> 
> The APB will specify a RED car, and I'll be driving a BLUE one ! ! !
> 
> 
> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !
> 
> (evil maniacal laughter)
> 
> 
> Splendid !
> 
> :devil:



This is why Burgess was never a successful criminal. He'd brag about his plans on a public internet forum first.


----------



## EZO

Burgess said:


> Peugeot RCZ
> 
> 
> This is EXACTLY what I need for my Bank-Robbing getaway vehicle !
> 
> 
> The APB will specify a RED car, and I'll be driving a BLUE one ! ! !
> 
> 
> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !
> 
> (evil maniacal laughter)
> 
> 
> Splendid !
> 
> :devil:



Well, I 'spose robbing a bank could be a pretty stressful, adrenaline fueled experience. What makes you think the car will be blue? :green: :thinking:


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## EZO

RBR said:


> Here´s the classic Italian compact pickup.
> 
> Piaggio three wheeler, very popular with wine makers and people running a small business, built since 1947 and is still produced.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the German counterpart, called Goliath. Has been built from late 20s to late 50s of the last century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> RBR



Those look really interesting. I've never heard of them before but I could see having some very practical uses for a Piaggio around here. I wonder though, whether a three wheeled truck might be less stable going around turns if it is carrying a load? FWIW, when I described the Datsun as "one of the first" I meant one of the first introduced in the US. For some reason, the Piaggio reminds me of a John Deere Gator. Now there's a compact pickup truck!


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## EZO

RBR said:


> Yes, of course, three wheels are far less stabile.
> 
> The three wheels of the Goliath had legal and fiscal reasons in the beginning because vehicles with less than four wheels and less than 350cm³ were allowed to be driven without licence and have been free of tax at that time.
> 
> I think the Piaggio has it´s main success for several reasons such as low consumption and most of all in the sometimes very rather narrow streets and lanes in Italian cities and a fortiori in smaller towns, not to forget of course tradition.
> 
> You could drive this vehicle virtually everywhere in town, where you already would have got stuck long time with a compact car.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> RBR



It has been awhile since I have been in Italy but you are quite right. The Europeans have been specializing in compact vehicles for a very long time now but here in the US, bigger is better. I wish I could buy a Toyota compact pickup that is the same size as the one I bought back in 1992. It was a solid, reliable, economical work vehicle that I could still drive to an urban setting, maneuver through traffic and find a place to park it.


----------



## TEEJ

When I was in Italy last, at first, I was very amused by the teeny "clown cars", so small, you could put one hand on a head light, AND your other hand on the tail light, at the same time.



After a few weeks there though, I got used to how small the cars were...but didn't REALIZE it until I saw a Mini Cooper, and it looked like a friggin Limousine.


----------



## EZO

Peel Engineering - Heading back into production.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

_I'm going to buy one of those because I really want to die in a car crash. _
_
~ Chance_


----------



## TEEJ

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> _I'm going to buy one of those because I really want to die in a car crash. _
> _
> ~ Chance_



LOL

When you need the Jaws of Life to GET INTO a car, that's just too small.


----------



## EZO

TEEJ said:


> LOL
> 
> When you need the Jaws of Life to GET INTO a car, that's just too small.



Perhaps a Corbin-Sparrow then? (Now Myers Motors)


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## orbital

^ 

My brother had an *Isetta*, 
he sold it for not much more than he paid.

...buy a motorcycle instead


----------



## EZO

How about a Lit Motors C-1 - "Rolling Smart Phone"?......"This vehicle combines the efficiency and freedom of a motorcycle with the safety and convenience of a car."


----------



## Monocrom

RBR said:


> And here´s what sporty BMW pulled up with in the 1950s.



If I'm honest, that is the best way to go for a three-wheel vehicle. And, you can tell folks that you drive a BMW without being a liar. (Classic show "Family Matters," in that one episode where Laura told Steve she'd go out with anyone who picked her up in a BMW. So, Steve rolled up in one of these. It's a genuine BMW.)

A modern-day version would have to incorporate a reverse gear though. Something this version lacks.


----------



## StarHalo

Vroom


----------



## Bigpal

*Here are a few pics from the NY Auto Show. It was awesome. I took 550 pics in 2 days.* 


































































*The thing I really like is the matte finish on some of these cars, like the R8 above. It looks phenomenal in white. I think I like it better than glossy.*






*I must admit, the yellow Enzo on the first page of this thread is hands down my favorite all time.*


----------



## StarHalo

Bigpal said:


> *the yellow Enzo on the first page of this thread is hands down my favorite all time.*



Oh but the successor to the Enzo is almost here..


----------



## StarHalo

RAT JEEP


----------



## Monocrom

It's a little too low to the ground.


----------



## StarHalo

Some men just want to watch the world burn..


----------



## orbital

+

* Ferrari FF * ~ $295,000 AWD fastback/wagon type thing.

The sticker said_ "AWD system included".._


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> * Ferrari FF * ~ $295,000 AWD fastback/wagon type thing.



Saudi prince station wagon; I'd prefer the quicker/roomier/cheaper Porsche Panamera Turbo S..


----------



## orbital

^ 

My brother-in-law drove an_ *S*_,,
he said its so refined, there really isn't any sense of speed.

btw, when I saw the FF, I thought it was a one-off at first, 
haven't been up on my Maranello cars lately.

moving on,, guess this four door?


----------



## don.gwapo

That's an Aston Martin Rapide.

Corolla RS concept:















Brembo brakes! :naughty:. Orange/black combination. oo:.


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> My brother-in-law drove an_ *S*_,,
> he said its so refined, there really isn't any sense of speed.



You'll feel 0-100 in under 8 seconds.. Added bonus: you can now rent base model Panameras at Hertz, true story..



orbital said:


> btw, when I saw the FF, I thought it was a one-off at first,
> haven't been up on my Maranello cars lately.



Top Gear tossed one around a snow track; it has a very complex AWD system that's lower to the ground than any other, but it shuts off after 70mph, not ideal for inclement highway driving. It's probably the best looking shooting brake ever, but no one will remember it once Ferrari releases the F12..



don.gwapo said:


> Corolla RS concept:



Still one of my fave small cars, the stiff frame and super quick steering would make for a fine city performance car, and it doesn't look half bad riced..


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> +
> 
> * Ferrari FF * ~ $295,000 AWD fastback/wagon type thing.
> 
> The sticker said_ "AWD system included".._



For that much, it better include a super-model who can cook, clean, do laundry, and not talk back except to tell me how incredible I am.


----------



## orbital

Monocrom said:


> For that much, it better include a super-model who can cook, clean, do laundry, and not talk back except to tell me how incredible I am.



+

...and she be _really_ low maintenance :whoopin:..:naughty:

______________________________________________________





check out that blower ^





this Italian beauty was immaculate ^


----------



## EZO

The Lamborghini Ankonian concept. It looks like it could be a prop from The Dark Knight Rises.


----------



## StarHalo

Zoom zoom is back..


----------



## Monocrom

Nice! I love my 2009 Mazda6 V6 model. 

Overall, I like the redesign. But it troubles me that there's more than a bit of Hyundai styling about it. 

Anyone else noticed that Hyundai drivers have become more obnoxious than BMW drivers?


----------



## redaudi

Not nearly as bad as most porsche owners. I know a few exeptions, but man.


----------



## TyJo

Amusing video, titled Rolling a Reliant Robin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8


----------



## HighlanderNorth

I still have not figured out how to post pics here, but as far as Ferraris are concerned, the best looking newer model Ferrari is the 458 Italia. Its just got to be one of, if not the best looking Ferrari ever! Kicks butt on the street or track too.

^Its not quite up to the performance level of my next favorite, the Koenigsegg CCX or the now out of production Pagani Zonda F Roadster.

That Lexus LFA is priced at like $400,000-$500,000, and Lexus will STILL lose money on them supposedly! Top Gear pointed out that it is way overpriced, even though they will lose money on it. You can get a much better super car for less, like a Lamborghini Gallardo Spider.

But those cars are out of my price range anyway, however, I'd like to buy an awesome Cadillac CTS-V in the wagon form. 560 horsepower, huge Brembo brakes, magnetic ride control suspension, Tremec 6 speed transmission. Thats right, a manual trans in a Cadillac! This car set the all time record on the Nurburgring for sport saloon/sedans there, only beaten by 2 seconds over that 13 mile course by the much more expensive Porsche Panamera(which has a horrible looking back-end!). I'd bet that a Cadillac driver could take back that record though, as its only 2 seconds! So the CTS-V is faster and better handling than ANY other sport saloon car, and basically tied with the Panamera. Its faster than the AMG Mercedes, the BMW M5, the Maserati Quatroporte, the Aston Martin DBS, etc...... Thats saying something, and its much less money, and probably has a much better engine too! The Chevy/GM LS series V-8's have been tested at up to 1,200 hp without blowing up, on a bone stock bottom end/block, and that was the smallest version, the 4.8L! The CTS-V has the much larger version.


----------



## StarHalo

HighlanderNorth said:


> So the CTS-V is faster and better handling than ANY other sport saloon car, and basically tied with the Panamera. Its faster than the AMG Mercedes, the BMW M5, the Maserati Quatroporte, the Aston Martin DBS, etc......



Oh it's faster than the _old_ M5, but there's a new kid on the block..


----------



## HighlanderNorth

StarHalo said:


> Oh it's faster than the _old_ M5, but there's a new kid on the block..





How much are they^?


----------



## StarHalo

HighlanderNorth said:


> How much are they^?



Starts at $92K-ish. 

If you're looking something closer to the CTS-V's pricing, check the $71K Audi S6; same performance but through all four wheels..


----------



## StarHalo

StarHalo said:


> but no one will remember it once Ferrari releases the F12..


----------



## StarHalo

Pebble Beach: McLaren Special Operations X1, built on the MP4-12C platform. 1 of 1, was displayed for only one day and then delivered to customer:


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> ...same performance...



CTS-V: 556hp
S6: 420hp

Not really comparable.

A lot closer to "the same performance" as the CTS-V would be an AWD Charger R/T ($33k-$39k) with an Edelbrock E-Force supercharger kit (call it $9k after professional installation). Same size, more powerful, at least $23k in your pocket. But you don't get that German badge.


----------



## StarHalo

LukeA said:


> Not really comparable.



Surprise:

Audi S6; 0-60: 3.7 sec, 1/4 mi: 12.1 sec
Cadillac CTS-V sedan; 0-60: 4.1 sec, 1/4 mi: 12.3 sec

The Caddy's numbers above assume a perfect launch; if you don't feather the clutch and throttle just right, the Audi's all-wheel-drive and launch control combo will pull away that much farther from the start.


----------



## kwak

LukeA said:


> CTS-V: 556hp
> S6: 420hp
> 
> Not really comparable.
> 
> A lot closer to "the same performance" as the CTS-V would be an AWD Charger R/T ($33k-$39k) with an Edelbrock E-Force supercharger kit (call it $9k after professional installation). Same size, more powerful, at least $23k in your pocket. But you don't get that German badge.



BHP alone is a poor comparison of cars performance.
Torque, weight, gearing, type of gearbox, grip, CoG etc etc all play a massive part in a cars performance.

Plus certain manufacturers are known for having wildly exaggerated performance and BHP figures, other car companies really do err on the side of caution for their figures.


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> Surprise:
> 
> Audi S6; 0-60: 3.7 sec, 1/4 mi: 12.1 sec
> Cadillac CTS-V sedan; 0-60: 4.1 sec, 1/4 mi: 12.3 sec
> 
> The Caddy's numbers above assume a perfect launch; if you don't feather the clutch and throttle just right, the Audi's all-wheel-drive and launch control combo will pull away that much farther from the start.



Surprise: 

CTS-V Nordschleife time: 7:59.32
Audi S6 Nordschleife time: ???

That 7:59 made the Cadillac the fastest production sedan around that track (faster than any other sedan, including the Audi) until it was dethroned by the Porsche Panamera Turbo S, which is still not the Audi S6.

Barring significant mitigating factors, an AWD vehicle will have an advantage over a RWD one in a drag race. That isn't really debatable. But the dragstrip is not a perfectly accurate test of performance.


----------



## StarHalo

LukeA said:


> CTS-V Nordschleife time: 7:59.32
> Audi S6 Nordschleife time: ???



It'll probably be close, but it's not an entirely fair comparison since the Audi is a full four years newer than the Caddy. The aforementioned M5 and new Benz E AMG will probably be able to surpass the American's track time by a sounder margin.


----------



## LukeA

kwak said:


> BHP alone is a poor comparison of cars performance.
> Torque, weight, gearing, type of gearbox, grip, CoG etc etc all play a massive part in a cars performance.
> 
> Plus certain manufacturers are known for having wildly exaggerated performance and BHP figures, other car companies really do err on the side of caution for their figures.



As I mentioned above, for a time the CTS-V was the fastest production sedan around the Nurburgring's Nordschleife. So it's got some pretty legitimate performance credibility. The Cadillac has all the factors you mentioned in spades. And I don't want it to be construed that I'm indicating that the S6 isn't a well-performing car.

Best I could find regarding actual/claimed power outputs was this chassis dyno test for the Cadillac and this A7 3.0 chassis dyno test. The A6/A7 and S6/S7 share engines and drivetrains, and I couldn't find any dyno results for either S car. The test shows the A7 transferring 275hp against Audi's flywheel claim of 310. The Cadillac put a peak of 492hp down through the wheels. Audi claims the turbocharged 4.0L V8 in the S6 makes 420hp. Applying the ratio of whp/bhp from the 3.0 to the S6's claimed power gives 393whp for the S6. This is not an exact calculation, but it does at least put us in the ballpark.

Chassis dyno testing has a (well-deserved) reputation for poor repeatability, but it wouldn't take a large sample size to generate a statistically significant result denying the hypothesis assumption of equality of power generated in hp between the two cars. 

Some engines and drivetrains are over- or underrated, but for these two cars the inaccuracy of rating doesn't change what are extremely likely to be the facts (that the Cadillac generates more power than the Audi).


----------



## LukeA

StarHalo said:


> It'll probably be close, but it's not an entirely fair comparison since the Audi is a full four years newer than the Caddy. The aforementioned M5 and new Benz E AMG will probably be able to surpass the American's track time by a sounder margin.



Probably. Four years is a relative eternity when it comes to auto performance. But, at the risk of starting another debate, both of those cars will probably turn out to perform believably better than the CTS-V, but they each will cost twice as much as it. And neither will be available as a coupe or wagon or with a manual transmission, for the (dozen or so? Ha!) people who would want any of those options.


----------



## StarHalo

Pony car news from Pebble Beach: Ford and Shelby built a one-off tribute to Carroll Shelby called the GT500 Cobra, built on the GT500 platform, featuring 850 hp and a widebody kit, _but that's not the news_:






The news is, the 2013 Shelby Super Snake model, available to all, will now feature 850 hp. It's the same car without the widebody kit:


----------



## kwak

LukeA said:


> As I mentioned above, for a time the CTS-V was the fastest production sedan around the Nurburgring's Nordschleife. So it's got some pretty legitimate performance credibility. The Cadillac has all the factors you mentioned in spades. And I don't want it to be construed that I'm indicating that the S6 isn't a well-performing car.



After 25 years of being in and around the car industry i can honestly put my hand on my heart and say i have never met or even heard of anyone that has bought a car because of it's ring lap times.

Speaking as someone that's both ridden and driven round the Nordschleife many times both recently and before it became fashionable, i would have to say a car that is fast around Nordschleife would more often than not make a terrible road car.



LukeA said:


> Best I could find regarding actual/claimed power outputs was this chassis dyno test for the Cadillac and this A7 3.0 chassis dyno test. The A6/A7 and S6/S7 share engines and drivetrains, and I couldn't find any dyno results for either S car. The test shows the A7 transferring 275hp against Audi's flywheel claim of 310. The Cadillac put a peak of 492hp down through the wheels. Audi claims the turbocharged 4.0L V8 in the S6 makes 420hp. Applying the ratio of whp/bhp from the 3.0 to the S6's claimed power gives 393whp for the S6. This is not an exact calculation, but it does at least put us in the ballpark.
> 
> Chassis dyno testing has a (well-deserved) reputation for poor repeatability, but it wouldn't take a large sample size to generate a statistically significant result denying the hypothesis assumption of equality of power generated in hp between the two cars.
> 
> Some engines and drivetrains are over- or underrated, but for these two cars the inaccuracy of rating doesn't change what are extremely likely to be the facts (that the Cadillac generates more power than the Audi).



Problem i have here is, you've taken 1 single solitary example and used that to base an entire manufacturers power rating.
To me that assumption is THAT vague it less than useless.

I'm not really sure what your goal is, but so far in my opinion you have shown absolutely no knowledge or understanding of cars.

1/ BHP on it's own is a very poor guide to a cars performance.
As an example a Caterham R500 will lap and accelerate to 100mph quicker than all the cars you mentioned, yet it's dramatically lower in peak bhp

2/ A Nordschleife lap time is pointless in a road car and although a reputable manufacturer will use the Nordschleife for certain testing, any lap times posted by a manufacturer on a car that's aimed at mid level executives is an exercise by the marketing department not the dynamics department.

3/ Some cars read low on Dyno's others read high.
End of the day BHP is not as useful as torque and peak torque is not as useful as the "area under torque"


I've driven the CTS-V, the M5 and the RS6, to be honest i wouldn't buy any of them.

Personally on public roads i am more interested in perceived performance (a car that feels fast rather than is fast) and driving pleasure rather out right performance.
If i could drive a manual safely then i would buy another Caterham 7 as with that car i was able to safely and enjoyably explore it's traction limits compared to the cars listed.

Absolutely no doubt the CTS-V is fast and there is no doubt it's a lot cheaper than the other cars listed.
If you jump from each car though it certainly feels and looks a lot cheaper as well, the interior is pretty poor even by basic 3 series or Audi A1 standards, never mind a top level car.
For me it's saving grace is the LSx engine.

If i was American though and didn't care about a decent interior or handling subtitles i could understand why someone would buy one.


----------



## orbital

+


Judging a car on horsepower is like judging a stereo on how much _noise_ it can make,,

,,


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

........Or judging a $100 bottle of scotch by its alcohol content. It's not meaningless, but it's certainly not the determining factor.

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

+

*Some shots I took at **Road America for last weekends' ALMS event*






Inside Dyson Racing prototype ^





Stock ^





Not Stock ^






Angry sounding 8 Liter motor ^






Cute ^^


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

I see what you did there Orbital.  

~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> Cute ^^



That's definitely a pair worth fighting for!

The Flag, and the lovely young woman enjoying the freedoms that it represents.


----------



## orbital

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I see what you did there Orbital.
> 
> ~ Chance



+

..ahhh, just a mellow hint of Oak


----------



## StarHalo

Zoom n' room


----------



## Monocrom

They brought back the station wagon version of the Mazda 6 . . . Might as well teach a son how to hunt butterflies. :shakehead


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

What's more fun to drive, a mini-van, an SUV, or that beautiful Mazda station wagon?

~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

Your limited standard of comparison makes that Mazda sound good.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Median income, family of four or five, throw in a dog for good measure, a couple of ice-chests (one for food, one for adult beverages when the days driving is done) and we're off for a three day weekend drive down the coast What do we drive?


When it comes to style, performance, and room for the family....Oops! Don't forget the beer! The station wagon is king. 

Like the man said: Zoom n' room.

~ Chance


----------



## Mr.Sun

My old 993, RS everything. Last Guards Red aircooled Porsche delivered (1997) to the United States.


----------



## KuanR

Nice 993! It's my favourite generation, I'll have 993 turbo some day!


----------



## orbital

+1 for the 993 series

They hold such a classic 911 style to them


----------



## StarHalo

Wide is good..


----------



## Mr.Sun

Yes........yum,yum


----------



## orbital

+

PCA Chicago region rents Road America every Labor Day weekend from Fri~Mon evening.
It is an absolute Porsche orgy,,,no air restrictors either

Everything from stock models to full race units, and fire breathing turbo monsters, **%%(*&* nuts!
Just incredible how well 911s* get around R.A. 

Falken Tire 911 team just won Baltimore ALMS for the second year in a row 
& Flying Lizard 911 team scored pole position at Road America just the other weekend.

I could talk Porsche racing till morning & not even scratch the surface........:devil:

*yes, 924, all 944 models, 928 & 968 were there too


----------



## Monocrom

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Median income, family of four or five, throw in a dog for good measure, a couple of ice-chests (one for food, one for adult beverages when the days driving is done) and we're off for a three day weekend drive down the coast What do we drive?



You drive poor dad crazy from the sound of it.  

(But I get the point you're making.)




> When it comes to style, performance, and room for the family....Oops! Don't forget the beer! The station wagon is king.



After a few beers, I might agree with that. :thumbsup:



> Like the man said: Zoom n' room.
> 
> ~ Chance



That's not right. Which man said that? The drunken one with the under appreciated wife, 3 kids, and the dog?


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Wide is good..



Especially for when you want to spread out on the park bench. 

BTW, that's a weird spot to put it in.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Especially for when you want to spread out on the park bench.
> 
> BTW, that's a weird spot to put it in.



And you thought it was only a two-seater!


----------



## Monocrom

My mistake.

I'm warming up to the Mother-In-Law seat option.:twothumbs


----------



## StarHalo

Yo dawg..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Yo dawg..



So wrong on so many levels.


----------



## orbital

+

There are only 600 of these world wide, something like 175'ish in the states.
With a 4 Liter flat-6 revving near 9000rpm

Now take my Jeep, it has a 4 Liter Straight 6,,, but I don't think it's ever revved over 4K ~_ lol __ lol_
..and weights 1.5X

btw, the ceramic brake rotors on the RS 4.0 are $5000* each corner*, to replace


----------



## Monocrom

Ceramic brakes won't fade. But if you're actually using the car on a race track the way it should be used, you can still cook them.


----------



## HighlanderNorth

LukeA said:


> Probably. Four years is a relative eternity when it comes to auto performance. But, at the risk of starting another debate, both of those cars will probably turn out to perform believably better than the CTS-V, but they each will cost twice as much as it. And neither will be available as a coupe or wagon or with a manual transmission, for the (dozen or so? Ha!) people who would want any of those options.




It seems crazy to me that anyone, given the option of a Tremec 6 speed manual transmission in a high performance, great handling car would choose an automatic transmission instead! Insane.... Another major benefit of the CTS-V is that its engine is yet another version of the absolutely fantastic GM LS series small block v-8, which will undoubtedly go down in history as being another of the best engines of all time, like the Gen I Chevy small block has been(Rated #5 on Ward's top 10 best engines of 20th century). There is no doubt that the GM LS series small block V-8's are soooo much tougher and more durable than any other competitive Euro engine, and they are soooo much cheaper to repair too.....


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> There are only 600 of these world wide, something like 175'ish in the states.
> With a 4 Liter flat-6 revving near 9000rpm



And you can hear it here..


----------



## orbital

+

*Few shots I took today..*









__ ^ _Superformance_ Daytona






_____ ^ Cayman w/ 993 style wing,,, like it!










__ ^ McLaren, nuff' said











____ ^ I took these Scuderia shots just for StarHalo


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> ^ I took these Scuderia shots just for StarHalo



Heck yeah, awesome! Thanks dude! Gonna pick one of those up just as soon as I win the lottery, the car that's both the dream _and_ the nightmare..


----------



## Monocrom

Sweet pics! oo:


----------



## StarHalo

Successor to the Mclaren F1, the P1. Rumored 800+ hp with a possible KERS system adding another 150+ hp. Will debut at the Paris Auto Show on the 27th with full details.


----------



## Monocrom

Who left the back end under the heat lamp?!?!


----------



## redaudi

I'm surprised it's using a traditional wheel and not a single lug racing type wheel.

the Porsche carrera GT, ferrari enzo, koeniggsigsigigigigissegiigissgigigigigegggigsegs.....igsegs, and many other supercars are using it these days... I wonder why McLaren decided against?

Granted...those wheels are...um.........awe inspiring? That concave face gives me cargasms. I now know what I'm going to try to find for my car.


----------



## orbital

+

Porsche needs to bring back the GT,, maybe twin turbo completely remapped 4L 


anyway, staying German;
these are nearly race versions w/o numbers,,,,what's your flavor?*





*from R.A. this summer


----------



## don.gwapo

orbital said:


> what's your flavor?



Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Black Series with the Track & Aerodynamic package. 






Like the color too. .


----------



## StarHalo

Well here's a backend you might like better, the leaked brochure image of the Porsche 918 (and if you order it with the "Weissach package", the pictured race livery is actually included. From the factory. Yes, really.)


----------



## Monocrom

Now that's one good-looking backside. :huh:


----------



## orbital

+

Patrick Long, _the only U.S. Factory Porsche driver_, deserves to run this for the 2014 ALMS/GrandAm merger .. 






______________________ 918 ^


----------



## Launch Mini

Actually saw two new Mclarens on Rodeo Drivectodat. A coupe and a spider. Pix to follow. 3.8 liter 612hp 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. Beautiful cars


----------



## StarHalo

Porsche Panamera Sport Turismo concept; is it just me or does this make more sense than the standard Panamera?


----------



## KuanR

I saw that and I really like it. That is probably the car I will buy in a few years. I wanted to get a E63 AMG wagon for a while now, but I think the Panamera wagon will top that because the sedan version is really...ugly lol


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Porsche Panamera Sport Turismo concept; is it just me or does this make more sense than the standard Panamera?



Any Porsche with more than 2 doors looks horribly odd to me.


----------



## orbital

^

_That's what the Panamera should have been all along._




...the headlights seriously need simplification though.


----------



## Launch Mini

From my phone. Hope size is ok. 
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/...6-BD6C-2C93B5E809E0-4157-000003A1F8BC934B.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/...A-A6EB-9CA65826F390-4157-000003A1EAE21813.jpg


Your images are too large and have been replaced with links Please resize and repost.
See Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels. - Thanks Norm


----------



## Monocrom

It's downright obscene and vulgar.

I love it!! :twothumbs


----------



## StarHalo

McLaren got the Spyder dead on, and as an added bonus, those wheels say it's a newer model with the horsepower boost.

And speaking of McLaren, guess who dropped by to make an appearance in Paris..
















It's pretty clear after staring at this for some time that the orange styling bits are covering up a whole lot of Gumpert-esque carbon aerodynamic bits underneath; combined with the projected apesh*t levels of horsepower, this will obviously be a Veyron-killer..


----------



## orbital

+

I hope everyone knows who _*Bruce McLaren*_ is,, and all he did for racing.


----------



## StarHalo

The supercharged R600 is coming..


----------



## Monocrom

When?! . . .


----------



## Kremer

Ooooo, love Caterhams.


----------



## StarHalo

100,000 views! Keep posting cars, man!


----------



## orbital

+
_
100,000 views gets the big champagne spray!!!!_ :devil:


----------



## StarHalo

Toyota Hiace: Would you drive this over a station wagon or SUV?


----------



## HighlanderNorth

I just went to my bank yesterday, and right when I was getting ready to walk in, a young, maybe 27 year old guy pulls up in a brand new, white Aston Martin V-8 Vantage! So I talked to him for a bit. The Vantage is Aston Martin's coupe', and he had a stick(cool) instead of an automatic, and he said he paid under $150,000 for it. I asked about the V-12 Vantage, which is the ultimate version, and he pointed out that its $180,000. 

But Aston Martin has created the most iconic and best looking automobile front end in many years, and its amazing how many cars from different car companies are now copying the Aston front end. There are a few different Jaguar models that have blatantly copied it, and the new Scion sports car, etc. 

http://www.astonmartin.com/cars/v8-vantage-coupe

But here's the ultimate version!

http://www.astonmartin.com/cars/v12-vantage



Wish I had between $150,000 - $250,000 laying around!


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Toyota Hiace: Would you drive this over a station wagon or SUV?



That depends . . . What's in the back?


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> That depends . . . What's in the back?



'Bout as much space as a minivan, all within the footprint of a small sedan..


----------



## Monocrom

Not bad. I'd put a bed back there.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Not bad. I'd put a bed back there.



..and enjoy the afternoon breeze, maybe grab something from the fridge..


----------



## Monocrom

:huh:

Great . . . Now I want one! 

Please tell me these are actually available in America.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Please tell me these are actually available in America.



Nope, Asian region only (Japan's most stolen vehicle!), and the camper conversion is from Australia.


----------



## Monocrom

Dammit! . . . I can see why the thieves in Japan want that thing.


----------



## StarHalo

But horsepower makes up for a lot of sins; soccer mom just got a pair of EcoBoost turbos, and now the whole family goes 0-60 in six seconds..


----------



## orbital

^

I know a guy that has something like that,, well w/o the turbos..
needed to drive it to help him on a project,, it has so many silly overengineered driver assist stuff in the cab,
it struck me like profound hammer of how the auto industry lost it's way. Who asks for that shiet anyway??!!!

The only driver assist thing I want is cruise control & anti-lock brakes ~ that's it.
Hell, I'll even argue against automatic transmissions, so that would leave just anti-lock brakes.


Cars need to get back to the basics and people need to focus/relearn the task of driving* PERIOD*


----------



## brandini

I'm all for PASSIVE safety features, like seatbelts, airbags, and ABS. Blind spot stuff is pretty useful, parking radar is pretty nice, the Ford stuff with following distance is as well, but for the love of pete DON'T TURN THE WHEEL FOR ME.

-The Proud Owner of a turbo, rwd, manual, roadster, without cruise control (though I miss cruise)


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

orbital said:


> ^
> 
> Cars need to get back to the basics and people need to focus/relearn the task of driving* PERIOD*



Since neither of those two things are going to happen, I'm happy to know the approaching car will be paying attention to me even if the distracted driver isn't.

~ Chance


----------



## HighlanderNorth

orbital said:


> ^
> 
> I know a guy that has something like that,, well w/o the turbos..
> needed to drive it to help him on a project,, it has so many silly overengineered driver assist stuff in the cab,
> it struck me like profound hammer of how the auto industry lost it's way. Who asks for that shiet anyway??!!!
> 
> The only driver assist thing I want is cruise control & anti-lock brakes ~ that's it.
> Hell, I'll even argue against automatic transmissions, so that would leave just anti-lock brakes.
> 
> 
> Cars need to get back to the basics and people need to focus/relearn the task of driving* PERIOD*



I'll go way beyond that, and throw out the fuel injection and onboard computers and even the ABS, just give me some great multi-piston discs, and I need no ABS!

I just went through a few months and over $1000 just trying to get my truck to pass emissions because the computer found a less-than-pinhole sized leak in the vapor return system between the engine and gas tank, and I had to put it in the shop twice! All that over a miniscule vapor leak, which would have never even been noticed if there was no onboard computer. But when you get it out of the shop, you cant just run it through inspection again, you have to drive it for a few hundred miles til it resets and re-evaluates itself!! Ridiculous......

All it takes in for the check engine light to come on, for any reason, and they will fail you!


----------



## Monocrom

Definitely keep the anti-lock brakes. I nearly lost my Life in 2008 on a quiet night after work due to an idiot in a mini-van and a bean-counter over at Ford. The latter decided that cheap anti-lock brake technology still wasn't cheap enough to put into a '98 Ford Escort. Meanwhile, had I bought a Hyundai Elantra, I would have gotten that in my car. The Ford was totaled, though thankfully I wasn't. 

"Have you driven a Ford lately?"

No . . . And Hell will freeze over with Satan giving out free snow cones before I ever buy anything with the blue oval on it, ever again.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> cheap anti-lock brake technology still wasn't cheap enough to put into a '98 Ford Escort.



ABS was merely optional on almost all small cars in that era, only 59% of cars built in North America that year had it. (I had some interesting experiences in my '93 Mazda Protege on midwestern snow-topped black ice.) No point in holding it against Ford; I have verified several times over that my modern-era Fusion does indeed have ABS..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> ABS was merely optional on almost all small cars in that era, only 59% of cars built in North America that year had it. (I had some interesting experiences in my '93 Mazda Protege on midwestern snow-topped black ice.) No point in holding it against Ford; I have verified several times over that my modern-era Fusion does indeed have ABS..



The GLS version of the Elantra at least had anti-lock brakes as an optional feature for 1998. Plus, I could have gotten a new model Elantra (2001) for just a bit more money, with anti-lock brakes. But I wanted to "Buy American." At least with cars . . . Just not worth it. By 1998, anti-lock brake technology was 15 years old. Cheap enough to be at least an option on some compact cars. Ironically, I wasn't even buying American. 

Speaking of Mazda Proteges, while it was no longer one with Ford badging by 1998, the Mazda influence was still clearly present on that year's Ford Escort. Which actually was a good thing as Escorts were some of the most reliable models Ford was making during the '90s. I was so impressed with the Mazda influence, that my next (and still current) ride is a Mazda 6 V6 model. And definitely with anti-lock brakes.


----------



## brandini

I was in elementary school when ABS came out, my dad drove a lot for work and his rental car had it, so we drove out to a big parking lot and tested it. To us it was voodoo, and awesome.

And don't knock fuel injection, proper fuel injection is hard to do, and most cars are built to a price. Just look at what a miata can do with a standalone, billet fuel rail, cams, and COP ignition on not-that-high compression. And it'll run at 10/10ths until YOU're tired. I have been extremely tempted to standalone my mazdaspeed miata since they make em plug n play, if only I didn't need more space... Anyone want a turbo miata?


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Monocrom said:


> Definitely keep the anti-lock brakes. I nearly lost my Life in 2008 on a quiet night after work due to an idiot in a mini-van......



About 15 years ago I was the idiot in a mini-van. It was a 94 Chevy Astro van with ABS. I was driving down 9th street hill in Tacoma. I don't remember why I wasn't watching traffic, probably a woman with nice b(.)(.)bs when I suddenly became aware of the flatbed truck I would hit in about one [email protected]! I stood on the brakes knowing impact was imminent. WOW! The van stopped! No skid, nothing. It was amazing. ........Oh, the shapely woman, she wasn't impressed.

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

brandini said:


> Anyone want a turbo miata?



They'll all be turbo Miatas very soon..


----------



## Monocrom

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> About 15 years ago I was the idiot in a mini-van. It was a 94 Chevy Astro van with ABS. I was driving down 9th street hill in Tacoma. I don't remember why I wasn't watching traffic, probably a woman with nice b(.)(.)s when I suddenly became aware of the flatbed truck I would hit in about one [email protected]! I stood on the brakes knowing impact was imminent. WOW! The van stopped! No skid, nothing. It was amazing. ........Oh, the shapely woman, she wasn't impressed.
> 
> ~ Chance



_*My*_ idiot in the mini-van was driving past his exit on the expressway when he decided to swerve across two lanes of traffic the exact split-second he switched his blinker on. Yeah, he didn't check to see if there were cars in either of the two lanes, first. Now . . . Had he just kept on driving and gotten off at the very next exit, it would have put him 3 miles out of his way. But why do that when you can swerve across two lanes of traffic, in the rain, just as you're already going past your exit anyway. Yeah, why do something that intelligent when you can be a retard and put people's lives in danger? 

(You know, as I type this, I realize I should have been a helluva lot angrier back in April of 2008 than I was.)


----------



## brandini

StarHalo said:


> They'll all be turbo Miatas very soon..


Yea but 1.3L and 1.8L are WAY different in 'headroom' for mods. Plop an intake, downpipe, and a megasquirt (plug n play) on my car and you gain 50 hp and GOBS of torque and MPG.


----------



## kwak

brandini said:


> Yea but 1.3L and 1.8L are WAY different in 'headroom' for mods. Plop an intake, downpipe, and a megasquirt (plug n play) on my car and you gain 50 hp and GOBS of torque and MPG.



N/A?


----------



## StarHalo

kwak said:


> N/A?



If you consider an illegal exhaust and completely revised fuel map "natural", sure


----------



## kwak

There is absolutely no way you'll get 50bhp from a downpipe, intake and standalone on either a NA or NB Miata.

Doubtful on a NC, but not possible on a NA or NB in N/A flavour.


----------



## brandini

I have a Mazdaspeed = factory turbo


wwwwweeeeeEEEEEEEE!!!!!


It doesn't even have a boost pressure sensor, Mazda put he equivalent of a turbo kit on the car and sold it. Resolve the problems with no real boost signal, restrictive downpipe and exhaust, heat-soaking intake temp sensor, too-small PCV, and downright retarded ECU and yes you do gain quite a bit of power and torque.


----------



## kwak

brandini said:


> I have a Mazdaspeed = factory turbo
> 
> 
> wwwwweeeeeEEEEEEEE!!!!!
> 
> 
> It doesn't even have a boost pressure sensor, Mazda put he equivalent of a turbo kit on the car and sold it. Resolve the problems with no real boost signal, restrictive downpipe and exhaust, heat-soaking intake temp sensor, too-small PCV, and downright retarded ECU and yes you do gain quite a bit of power and torque.



Ahhhhhhhh that explains it.

In that case i agree, you should also add a bigger IC and ideally bigger injectors to your list though.

I've been running a Eunos Roadster for around 10 years with a MP62, meth/water injection, IC etc etc.
Never bothered dynoing it, but it should be about 240bhp right now.


----------



## brandini

I LOVE the whine of a good supercharger, but turbo technology has come such a long way, and plug n play ECUs have as well that you just can't say no to turbo anymore.

Oh yes if I were keeping the car the list would eventually be larger injectors, eliminate wasted spark, and the entire intake would be resized. And another must, 3.63 gears to replace these dang 4.10s. I shift 1-2-4-6 around town because they're so darn close and short.

Here's a pic of the little guy:


----------



## kwak

Had several turbo cars in the past so i just wanted something different.
To be honest if i did it all again i'd probably still go SC, simply because it keeps under bonnet temps down and it's SOOOOO reliable.

ECU's have come on a LOT even over the last 5 years, i have an Adaptronic for my 5, tuning is as easy as plugging in the laptop and viewing the datalogs and typing figures into a cell.

Should clarify though that to get the most out of standalone ECU's they're not really as simple as plug and play.
You will also need to fit a AIT and MAP sensor and tune it.

Fingers crossed that technology will continue, as really the only thing holding back tuning now is primitive reactive rather than proactive knock sensing.
BMW and Ferrari have both installed spark plugs with inonisation sensors to detect knock BEFORE it happens and adapt the timing on each individual cylinder.
The F12 produces 3 sparks of varying intensity and duration depending on the load and need.

If this technology trickles down to the aftermarket level we should be able to really push the ragged edge of timing and compression ratio's, which even if your turbo's will give noticeably better spool up.

Here's mine


----------



## StarHalo

Passed behind one of these tonight; probably the best looking backend on a small car (available in America) ever, not a straight line to be found on the entire thing. This would have passed as Italian/Pininfarina design only a few years ago..


----------



## Monocrom

Honestly, that view reminds me of the previous Gen. Hyundai Elantra. A former co-worker of mine used to drive one. From the front it looked a bit bloated. But overall, nice styling cues.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Honestly, that view reminds me of the previous Gen. Hyundai Elantra.



I can't really find a picture that does it justice; the lighting/reflections in them give the impression that the taillights sit in an "oval panel" similar to a Neon or Chevy Cobalt, but what you can't see is that there's no vertical ridge or feature at all on the rear sides - the whole backend from the center of the lightbar out is just one continuous unbroken "U" that flows forward to the sides of the car, there's nothing to denote where the rear face begins or ends. It's really striking when you see it in person, you know you're definitely looking at something new..

It looks more like this:


----------



## Monocrom

That's the same pic.

Though I do know what you mean about cars and other items looking better in real life than in pictures.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> That's the same pic.



I changed the lighting on the rear fender, to show that there's no feature there; but you'll see what I mean when you see it in person..


----------



## Monocrom

Oh! Now I see it. Sorry, I keep weird hours and had just woken up when I made my previous post. Looking forward to seeing one in person, soon.


----------



## StarHalo

Yeah, just finishing my coffee here, gotta love West Coast uni student hours..

In other news, as the Space Shuttle was being towed through the LA streets on its way to the Science Museum, Toyota set up a commercial shoot where a Tundra got to tow the Shuttle for a few minutes. A 5,600 lb truck pulling a 292,000 lb spacecraft, that's a rather good driveline..


----------



## Monocrom

Wonder how much Toyota paid for that bit of product promotion.


----------



## StarHalo

Possibly the best World Rally footage shot to date; all these modern HD cameras really put you in the middle of the action.. Join Petter Solberg and his engine noise on a brief afternoon outing in Finland, and be sure to set it to HD:


----------



## orbital

^

_fantastic!!!_


Petter also still has the outright fastest stage time on the king of all Finland rally stages, *Ouninpohja **Full version* circa '04






I can remember an interview with him back then, 
Petter was saying how some drivers get 'too tricky' about the jumps,....he said "just to take them {whistled} flatout"


----------



## StarHalo

"Nice station wagon." "Nice compact." (Austin F1 opening event)


----------



## StarHalo

The Porsche 918 will start at $996,000; the pictured Weissach package breaks the 1 mil mark, which will price it against the McLaren P1..


----------



## orbital

+

918 exhaust out the top, keeping things cooler.





Is it worth $1 mill,,,?
back in the 80s', it cost Porsche more to make the 959 than what they sold for .
~ Maybe they're recouping some costs oo:


----------



## 5.0Trunk

Haven't been here in a while, but here is my 2011 GT that I fixed up, and Whipple charged it.






I traded the GT in for an 11 Shelby GT500. It is stock for now ;-)







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk stuff!


----------



## Monocrom

LOL

Yeah, don't you hate those "bare bones" GT500s.


----------



## 5.0Trunk

Monocrom said:


> LOL
> 
> Yeah, don't you hate those "bare bones" GT500s.





Yeah, I had the 5.0 for a few days before the transformation started. After 2 months, the car had the look I was going for, and the power was at the level I was happy with (520rwhp). With the Shelby, I'm not going to go crazy with it. I will lower it, pulley & tune, exhaust. I want to get it to about 600rwhp. ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk stuff!


----------



## cdobbs

StarHalo said:


> Post some cars, man..
> 
> 
> (and no, this does not belong in the Automotive _Lighting_ section)
> 
> Bugatti Veyron 16.4, when you need to get to 140mph in ten seconds, at the same moment you cross the quarter-mile line..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1969 Chevrolet COPO Camaro, 1 of 69 made, the lord king almighty of Camaros, with the same straight-line performance numbers as the current 426hp Camaro SS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caterham 7 Superlight R500, barely four pounds per horsepower, not even a sport bike can keep up..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1984 Ferrari 288 GTO, how Italians build a hot rod; 0-80 in 6 seconds _in first gear_, and it's a five-speed..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2010 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, the return of the Ferrari-killer; 600+hp inside a whole lot of carbon fiber
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caparo T1, as close to F1 as can be made street legal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RUF Porsche eRUF, an electric-motor 911; you can really see the James Dean Spyder heritage once you remove all the air ducts from the nose..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weismann GT, it's German and has a V8, that's all I know since none of the info on it is in English..



The 69 camero is awesome!!!


----------



## HighlanderNorth

*Worlds fastest STREET CAR....*

I remember reading about a guy in the late 80's who owned an early 70's Plymouth Cuda with a huge alcohol burning, supercharged hemi that could run low 9 second 1/4 miles, but although the car was technically street legal, the guy admitted he never actually drove it on the street because it got 2 gallons to the mile in fuel mileage, with a 5 gallon fuel cell! So although impressively fast, it was a trailer queen....

Things have changed in 22 years, and now Hot Rod magazine runs an annual street car festival called Hot Rod Drag Week, where the fastest street legal cars on the planet drive 1200 miles to race at 4 different tracks over 5 days. So they must drive the actual car, with no prior modifications to "tune it down" for the street, and they must drive it exactly how they will race it, with the same tires and everything. Plus, they arent allowed to have a crew follow them in a trailer filled with parts in case of a breakdown, so their cars must be SUPER FAST, yet tough enough to handle 1200 miles of everyday type driving. If you break down, you're out!

That might not sound like much til you consider that the fastest cars run low 7 second 1/4 miles, at over 200 miles per hour! The fastest guy, Larry Larson ran a 6.94 second 1/4 mile at 209mph! He drives a 1966 Chevy II with over 2,300 horsepower in its V-8 Chevy engine! He seems to win it most years. Twenty years ago, if someone wouldve said that the fastest cars would run high 6's, AND be street legal, they wouldve been laughed at....

There are many classes these cars run in with different rules and regulations on engine size, weight, etc, so the cars run at different speeds. But here's the video of Larry Larson's Nova from 2010(he won it in 2012 too with the same car)....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwF-kr91uxU&feature=related


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Worlds fastest STREET CAR....*

No longer Like A Boss: Ford has announced that this is the final year of the Boss Mustang. [and that's not just a double-black Boss, but is in fact a Laguna Seca model:]


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Worlds fastest STREET CAR....*

MAXIMUM WARP: More video awesomeness from this golden era of rally footage; Austrian Beppo Harrach blasts through one of his native two-rut forest roads at 128 mph:


----------



## Lucciola

*Re: Worlds fastest STREET CAR....*

Ferdinand GT3 RS :thumbsup:


----------



## jabe1

*Re: Worlds fastest STREET CAR....*

That is awesome!

He'd make better time if he would learn to cut the Apex on his turns....


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Worlds fastest STREET CAR....*



Lucciola said:


> Ferdinand GT3 RS :thumbsup:



Already saw it featured on Top Gear, years ago. Still get a blast seeing it in action.


----------



## Lucciola

*Re: Worlds fastest STREET CAR....*



jabe1 said:


> He'd make better time if he would learn to cut the Apex on his turns....



This is just a presentation lap. The driver doesn't wear his protective race suit and at 1:11 you see that despite the dry conditions on the track the car is fitted with the rain tires. If they'd taken it to the limit the other car at 6:01 wouldn't have had the slightest chance of overtaking.


----------



## Lucciola

Since my teenage years until today I have always been dreaming about a Caterham Super 7 in this finish: Yellow and Racing Green. I wouldn't even care which engine it would have. Just this awesome British car and a sunny day to take a ride on the countryside roads. If I would ever have money to burn that would be the first toy to buy for Old Dad - well, the second after a Coolfall Spy. 

So here it is, my perception of British automobile craftsmanship at its finest:


----------



## StarHalo

Production. Aventador. Roadster.









1


----------



## Monocrom

Honestly, there's something a bit too feminine about it. Can't put my finger on it.


----------



## ffemt6263

I hear you on the feminine thing. Not sure why either but i think maybe the front center hood area might have something to do with it. Looks like they were trying to go for an f1 car look and failed miserably.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Honestly, there's something a bit too feminine about it. Can't put my finger on it.



Metallic baby blue with tan leather interior and bare wheels isn't a masculine combo, especially when you're used to seeing the car in either Skunkworks black or Flaming Traffic Cone orange..

Edit: For the trivia folk - the pictured Roadster's color is officially named "Azurro Thetis" (the only color it will initially be available in, and with only those wheels), the correct names for the aforementioned Skunkworks black [matte] is "Nero Nemesis", and Flaming Traffic Cone orange is "Arancio Argos Pearl Effect".


----------



## orbital

+

Motor Trends _*2013 Car of the year*_






....green cookie points


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Edit: For the trivia folk - the pictured Roadster's color is officially named "Azurro Thetis" (the only color it will initially be available in, and with only those wheels), the correct names for the aforementioned Skunkworks black [matte] is "Nero Nemesis", and Flaming Traffic Cone orange is "Arancio Argos Pearl Effect".



I'm sorry, but Baby Blue is not a popular car-color. What were they thinking?


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Motor Trends _*2013 Car of the year*_ . . .



This is why I prefer Car & Driver, instead.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> I'm sorry, but Baby Blue is not a popular car-color. What were they thinking?



Depends on the car..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Depends on the car..



No . . . Not even on that beautiful creation. :sigh:


----------



## orbital

+

..on the other hand, French Blue is a timeless & classic car color


----------



## Lucciola

Monocrom said:


> I'm sorry, but Baby Blue is not a popular car-color.



"Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black" H.F.


----------



## Kremer

Lucciola said:


> So here it is, my perception of British automobile craftsmanship at its finest:



This. I want one, badly.


----------



## StarHalo

My favorite exhaust sound as of late; click for pure German pony car music..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Pony car music.  I like it, and the RS5....WOW, sounds awesome! 

~ Chance


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

_The Shelby Code Red 
$150,000 GT500 __Shelby/Nelson Racing Engines twin-turbo 5.4-liter V8 with 1000+ rear wheel horsepower_. 




Twin 61mm Turbonetics turbochargers 
Twin fuel system – pump / race gas blend 
Electronic boost controller 
 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tDHX9GQwQcE


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> _The Shelby Code Red_



The problem there is that the package is only available in the older gen body, before Ford did any tweaking of the suspension; it'd basically be like driving on ice all the time..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Yes, watch a video of any car from Tom Nelson Racing and the theme is break-em loose and smile. 

~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

Yup, there is such a thing as too much power. When the rest of the car can't keep up with that power, then what's the point?


----------



## StarHalo

2013 Porsche Cayman leaked images; official release is a couple weeks away:


----------



## orbital

^

Porsche should focus on this mid-engined platform & put the 4L flat-6 in it.

btw~ going to club races & test events at Road America,..word is, the Cayman is the best handling Porsche to date. 






2012 version,_ still a good pic of platform_


----------



## Launch Mini

I was fortunate enough to have been invited to a BMW M3 Track Day last year, and instructed by some of the BMW driver trainers/pro racers.
It was a blast.
In the Q&A session, someone asked the trainer/pro, if he could choose one car as his favourite, ignoring the BMW influence, what would he drive. Without hesitation he said the Porsche Cayman.
I'm sure he doesn't want me mentioning his name.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> 2013 Porsche Cayman leaked images; official release is a couple weeks away:



Leaked images?? LOL !

I'm sorry, but everyone knew what it was going to look like even before it was built. They're great cars, but no one is ever going to be wowed by the styling. And no one has been since the mid 1960s. It's freaking Porsche. None of the other car companies bother spying on Porsche's latest designs because everyone already knows what they'll look like.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Monocrom said:


> Yup, there is such a thing as too much power. When the rest of the car can't keep up with that power, then what's the point?


 

With the twin turbos, pre-boost if you will, the cars are very well behaved. Almost mild mannered, idling around 1,000 RPM like mom's Buick. What's the point? Because we can, and it's fun. Watching the videos it looks more like driving on dirt than ice. 1,000 + HP is defiantly not for the novice, but it isn't totally uncontrollable. 

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Because we can, and it's fun.



The monster horsepower cars are awesome with high speed acceleration, sailing through 150 to 200 as quickly as other cars make 50 to 100. But that's only on perfectly smooth pavement with no other traffic; in any other situation, the last half of the throttle travel is purely off limits. Not all car guys take the smaller cars seriously, but it's a lot more fun to wind out a car 10/10ths down an onramp, engine screaming while deftly tossing the car's weight on squealing tires, sailing into a merge, and it's all mostly legal and safe..


----------



## orbital

+1 You won't find too many cars that are more fun to drive than something like Mazda Miata/MX-5 or your Cooper ^


...anyways,* It's all about balance & traction attained *

Stability in braking,, getting into corners,,, mid corner speed,
and most importantly >>the traction getting out of the corner.

_What I'd give for an early 80's BMW M1 w/ the 4.4L V8 in the back _
{maybe a little suspension & brake work to compliment}


----------



## kwak

orbital said:


> +1 You won't find too many cars that are more fun to drive than something like Mazda Miata/MX-5 or your Cooper ^
> 
> 
> ...anyways,* It's all about balance & traction attained *
> 
> Stability in braking,, getting into corners,,, mid corner speed,
> and most importantly >>the traction getting out of the corner.



Completely agree.

Problem is that in these days of top gear style programs ALL these kids care about is speed and horsepower.
30 years ago that might have worked as pretty much anything above 200bhp over here in Europe was considered a "bit of a animal"
Today we can buy and tune cars to easily exceed 500bhp, a figure that's pretty much only good for internet and pub braggers as even on most tracks it's tough to get a 1500kg 500bhp to perform, never mind on public roads. 

Earlier this year i was helping a mate setup his turbo charged E46 M3, his car is kicking out well over 700bhp and although those first few throttle prods make you giggle like a teenage girl on helium it soon gets to be more frustrating than entertaining as there simply is not many opportunities to really stretch it's legs.

Then when you do your at stupidmph so spend more time worrying about police and crashing than enjoying the car.

The funny thing is, that while i was setting his car up i lent him my little Smart for2 and he absolutely loved it.
He loved the fact that he could drive the car absolutely flat out yet still be well within the speed limit.
He liked it THAT much he went out and bought one and his M3 has been used only a handful of times since.


----------



## brandini

I'd take a flat trade for a loaded, stick, Mazda2 in a heartbeat. I need just a tad more space than this Mazdaspeed Miata, and just a tad better MPG. It's a win-win. And the best part, it's a Mazda, and the community is fun and there are oodles of parts since it's a Spec B car.


----------



## StarHalo

brandini said:


> a loaded, stick, Mazda2



Zoom zoom


----------



## Monocrom

It is kinda adorable. 

(Though I'd never give up my Mazda 6 Ssport V6 for one.)


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

^ 
^ Perhaps a different color would make it more appealing...... 

~ C.G.


----------



## Monocrom

Actually, silver is already my favorite color.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> (Though I'd never give up my Mazda 6 Ssport V6 for one.)



Bigger zoom


----------



## orbital

+

4.4 Liter BMW V8 engine note bliss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCgdfNR9J6w&feature=fvwrel

there's a huge miss shift at_ 1'50" _ ,, holy rev limiter batman .......


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

^ Excellent camerawork. :thumbsup:

~ C.G.


----------



## brandini

StarHalo said:


> Bigger zoom


Yea but nose heavy, no proper alignment adjustments, iffy rear diff implementation requiring nutso rear diff mounts, little headroom in stock injectors, bendy rods, stupid throttle plate closing at high rpm...

= 

too much work to make really really fun.

I'm in the same boat, my last car was a regular 6, my current car has a retarded ecu, way too high rear (4.10), and poorly tuned suspension (too much shock, not enough spring, too tall bumpstop.

I just want something that's a giggle at legal speeds, hence the drool at the 2. It fits a 15x8, stock. Would be such a giggle.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Bigger zoom



Good luck finding one though.


----------



## StarHalo

Now available in the single configuration:


----------



## StarHalo

How AMG builds a sporty hatchback: The A45 AMG, yet another compact five-door with a 2.0 liter turbo engine, but this one is cranking out *353 hp*, or 173 hp per liter (the top-track-toy Porsche GT2 RS has 172 hp/L.)


----------



## Monocrom

Its numbers are impressive . . . But damn it's fugly!!


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> But damn it's fugly!!



The black bits are camouflage, including the skirting covering the front air dam; it looks like any other AMG underneath all that.


----------



## orbital

+

...back to Danica Patrick, 

I have an entirely new level of respect after watching her race a road course last summer.
It was a Nationwide race at R.A. and she was *really* holding her own w/ some road course specialists,
with cars that handled like waterbeds w/ wheels.

If she stated a show testing all kinds of aftermarket parts on tracks ect.._with a couple other cute girls to boot,_
I'd bet more than a few people would watch
{hell,, maybe even tie in web hosting for those said parts }


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> If she stated a show testing all kinds of aftermarket parts on tracks ect..



More evidence that Top Gear US should have been her, Carolla, and Titus..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> More evidence that Top Gear US should have been her, Carolla, and Titus..



Yup. Especially terrible how Carolla was screwed out of the hosting job.


----------



## Lucciola

Here's something extraordinary for you. Looks like a good joke, but I'd take one!  :thumbsup:


----------



## Monocrom

No joke. Smallest car in the world. Not very pramatic but apparently road-legal in the UK.


----------



## StarHalo

Lots of big-power-in-a-small-package news today; the Ford Fiesta ST is real and on its way, 197 hp in a Mazda 2-sized package (versus the Mazda 2's 100 hp):






And the Chevy Spark EV has been announced, which wouldn't be too engaging except the motor is rated for 130 hp and *400 lb-ft* of torque; the electric model of the car will not only have much higher performance than the gas version, but will compete on the level of larger compact sedans like the Mazda 3:


----------



## StarHalo

On the auction block January 19th: The 1965 George Barris original Batmobile:


----------



## Monocrom

A special date for me. Somewhere in an alternate universe, I'm drooling at the chance to bid on it.

Has there ever been an unstylish bat mobile?


----------



## StarHalo

Can't say it's the Batmobile I'd choose. But I wouldn't mind the car it's built on, the car that introduced pearlescent paint, the 1955 Lincoln Futura:


----------



## H-Man

StarHalo said:


> The monster horsepower cars are awesome with high speed acceleration, sailing through 150 to 200 as quickly as other cars make 50 to 100. But that's only on perfectly smooth pavement with no other traffic; in any other situation, the last half of the throttle travel is purely off limits. Not all car guys take the smaller cars seriously, but it's a lot more fun to wind out a car 10/10ths down an onramp, engine screaming while deftly tossing the car's weight on squealing tires, sailing into a merge, and it's all mostly legal and safe..
> 
> red car.jpg


This song comes to mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAvQSkK8Z8U
Last time I played that in the car I found my self doing 85 in a geo prizm.


----------



## StarHalo

LA Auto Show:


----------



## StarHalo

More about those insane-horsepower cars: 0 to 230 mph in the 1,224 hp Hennessey Venom GT. The boost controller is synched with the traction control, and you can hear the two frantically fighting to try to keep the rear wheels hooked up all the way to 4th gear - the car can only use a fraction of its power until after well after 100 mph:


----------



## StarHalo

And a Merry Christmas to all the family guys; the 560 hp Audi RS6 Avant will arrive at showrooms shortly (just as the Caddy CTS-V wagon is being discontinued):


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> More about those insane-horsepower cars: 0 to 230 mph in the 1,224 hp Hennessey Venom GT. The boost controller is synched with the traction control, and you can hear the two frantically fighting to try to keep the rear wheels hooked up all the way to 4th gear - the car can only use a fraction of its power until after well after 100 mph:



+

Wonder how many _hours_ before an engine rebuild @ 1200+ hp**:devil:


__________________________________________________________________



StarHalo said:


> And a Merry Christmas to all the family guys; the 560 hp Audi RS6 Avant will arrive at showrooms shortly (just as the Caddy CTS-V wagon is being discontinued):



-----------------^^

You got me at Audi RS'anything ~ I really dig the eurowagon thing, always have.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> And a Merry Christmas to all the family guys; the 560 hp Audi RS6 Avant will arrive at showrooms shortly (just as the Caddy CTS-V wagon is being discontinued):



If I had the money....in a heartbeat! That is beautiful! In white, with Crome wheels.

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

And while Audi continues to get it right, Mercedes has decided to go completely wrong: The 2014 E63 AMG, with _all wheel drive only_ - it'll be RWD elsewhere, just not in the US.


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> And while Audi continues to get it right, Mercedes has decided to go completely wrong: The 2014 E63 AMG, with _all wheel drive only_ - it'll be RWD elsewhere, just not in the US.



Have you driven a RS6?
I certainly wouldn't say Audi has it right, especially when compared to something like a E92 M3.

It's like having to choose between eating a rat or eating a mouse, both brands produce some of the deadest handling cars in production.
I've seen more feedback from a dead camel, on a marshmallow mountain sitting on 2 meters of wet sponge.


----------



## StarHalo

kwak said:


> I certainly wouldn't say Audi has it right, especially when compared to something like a E92 M3.



Audi is continuing with the formula that made them famous, the AMG is changing their formula completely..


----------



## orbital

+

I was able to drive an E350 4-Matic (auto w/ paddle shift) quite a bit recently*,,to say its a fantastic car is an understatement.
The seating position is perfection, ergonomics, electronic systems are spot on.
Braking system is bliss
*several hundred miles on about a dozen occasions, all types of roads.

The only fault I could scratch out,, was the cruise control lever was a bit close to the directional. That's it!

Mercedes doesn't get things wrong.


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> +
> 
> I was able to drive an E350 4-Matic (auto w/ paddle shift) quite a bit recently*,,to say its a fantastic car is an understatement.
> The seating position is perfection, ergonomics, electronic systems are spot on.
> Braking system is bliss
> *several hundred miles on about a dozen occasions, all types of roads.
> 
> The only fault I could scratch out,, was the cruise control lever was a bit close to the directional. That's it!
> 
> Mercedes doesn't get things wrong.



You just described my '09 Mazda6 V6. Almost 20,000 miles instead of hundreds. The cruise control buttons definitely don't feel loose.


----------



## orbital

^

Are cruise control buttons commonly loose on Mazdas?

The leased E350 I borrowed had 19K on it, still felt showroom.
You will not find a loose anything on a Mercedes, they are as vault solid a car you can buy.
If that E350 was only a manual transmission..the pedals have such phenomenal feel, really a shame.

One last thing,
Mercedes have had very aggressive stability control/traction control system in the past, engine is cut and brakes slightly applied,
If I could fault them in the _past_, that would be it,,,haven't tested new models on snow.


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> Audi is continuing with the formula that made them famous, the AMG is changing their formula completely..



To my mind the Quattro made Audi famous, it was a lively little car with mechanical 4wd and decent handling.
There are no Audi's in the current range that have all those traits.

The larger cars have the mechanical 4wd but they're even duller on the corners than the S3, RS3 A3.

AMG tend to be great cars to drive IF someone else is paying for the tyres.
Driving home on a wet road after a hard day at work that torque over mechanical grip isn't so much fun.
You can of course leave the traction control on, but then it's THAT nannying you struggle to pull out over any even slightly close gap in traffic.

Depends what you want from a car obviously, but anyone that knows anything about cars and has driven most Audi (R8 aside) or the entire AMG range will not use phrases like "good driver feedback" or "subtle handling"


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> ^
> 
> Are cruise control buttons commonly loose on Mazdas?



There is a general belief from some that Mazdas are not as well-built as their Toyota or Honda counterparts. When I first bought my sweet ride there were mostly compliments as well as some astonishment that I bought the V6 version over the more economical 4-cylinder. But I did receive a couple of "Good Luck" statements. (Definitely not meant to be positive.) Only had one Q.C. issue that was fixed under warranty. Haven't had any since then. 

The stability / traction control system isn't aggressive at all. More like a helpful assistant than an overbearing nanny.


----------



## StarHalo

If it came down to only interior quality, no one would ever buy the Accord or Camry over the 6; my '93 Protege had better materials quality than those two..


----------



## StarHalo

This is correct: The 1,700 lb Subaru Brat with the 300 hp Subaru WRX STi driveline:


----------



## Kremer

StarHalo said:


> This is correct: The 1,700 lb Subaru Brat with the 300 hp Subaru WRX STi driveline:



Hot damn, that looks awesome.


----------



## 2000xlt

That must scoot!!,,i'd like to see some video maybe in car pull to 100mph


StarHalo said:


> This is correct: The 1,700 lb Subaru Brat with the 300 hp Subaru WRX STi driveline:


----------



## Silver Eagle

Wow there's a whole lot of fast in here! :huh: I think I might have to have a kid just so I can sell it for that new Viper - holy gorgeous! Though my heart still belongs to the original; first car I ever fell in love with. Just don't tell my Eagle that! :laughing: My poor ol' beast is probably the polar opposite of just about everything posted up. 1983 AMC Eagle wagon, with...... a few mods.  Buddy took one look at what I'd done to it, & declared it "the drunken redneck backyard project that went horribly right". 

How it looked when I first got it (I added the winch & lights):
http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af69/83regaleagle/Road Trip/IMG_2396.jpg

How it looks now:
http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af69/83regaleagle/IMG_4565_zpsceaca99a.jpg

6" custom long arm lift, solid axle conversion, low range transfer case, heavy duty transmission, original engine minus the 80s emissions junk. Tons of work still to do, but I wouldn't trade my ol' bird for anything (not even a Viper! ).


Your images are too large and have been replaced with links Please resize and repost.
See Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels. - Thanks Norm


----------



## StarHalo

All hail the kings of the burnout, the Aussies:


----------



## StarHalo

Mr. Toyoda himself sitting in Lexus LF-A #500, which concludes production of the model. (He's probably thinking, "Why did I build a more expensive Ferrari 430 when I should have been building a less expensive Nissan GT-R..")


----------



## StarHalo

Hey, it's the Corvette 427 Convertible; why are we looking at the engine?

_Because it's about to go into the Camaro..

_


----------



## Slestiarlewew

*Cars Man*

I have solved the problem of the type of cars in My picture of Tyn -y-Groes Conwy, I wrote to the Beaulieu Motor Museum, the left one is a Fiat 501 and the other is a Bentley, both from the early 1920s, both Registered in Caernarfonshire. Geff


----------



## Lucciola

*Re: Cars Man*

Happy new year to all the cars-thread lovers out there. Here's a car test which is a bit unusual. Get ready for the Marauder (that gap's big enough )


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Cars Man*

Car & Driver Lightning Lap is back; there's gotta be a dark horse every year, and this time around a $37K pony car takes the award:







The Chevy Camaro SS 1LE, an SS with some of the handling bits from the ZL1. And boy do they work, as seen against some of this year's competition:

3:04.7 - BMW M6
3:04.3 - Audi RS5
3:04.2 - Porsche Boxster S
3:01.5 - *Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE*

The American not only outs the highest-performing BMW on the market to date, it also sails past the German all-wheel-drive version of a pony car, eclipsing the top-tier mid-engine Porsche in the process. Some historical comparison:

3:13.3 - 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR
3:12.0 - 2009 Nissan 370Z NISMO
3:06.6 - 2011 BMW 1-Series M
3:05.0 - 2009 Lotus Exige S 260 Sport
3:04.8 - 2012 Audi TT RS
3:04.2 - 2011 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
3:03.9 - 2012 Porsche Cayman R
3:03.8 - 2011 Porsche Boxster Spyder
3:02.8 - 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca
3:01.5 - *2013* *Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE*


----------



## Burgess

*Re: Cars Man*

Recently visited Auburn - Cord - Duesenburg Museum, in Auburn Indiana.

Such a Wonderful and Interesting Place ! :thumbsup:

Here's a 1931 Cord which caught my eye.








Since this is CandlePowerForums, pay special attention to those* Fancy Headlamps* !

Did a bit of internet research, and turned up this info on WoodLite Headlights :


http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2012/05/wood-lite-headlites-dim-and-useless-but.html



I can remember seeing those on some George Barris creations, decades ago.

:candle:
_


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Cars Man*



StarHalo said:


> Car & Driver Lightning Lap is back; there's gotta be a dark horse every year, and this time around a $37K pony car takes the award:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Chevy Camaro SS 1LE, an SS with some of the handling bits from the ZL1. And boy do they work, as seen against some of this year's competition:
> 
> 3:04.7 - BMW M6
> 3:04.3 - Audi RS5
> 3:04.2 - Porsche Boxster S
> 3:01.5 - *Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE*
> 
> The American not only outs the highest-performing BMW on the market to date, it also sails past the German all-wheel-drive version of a pony car, eclipsing the top-tier mid-engine Porsche in the process. Some historical comparison:
> 
> 3:13.3 - 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR
> 3:12.0 - 2009 Nissan 370Z NISMO
> 3:06.6 - 2011 BMW 1-Series M
> 3:05.0 - 2009 Lotus Exige S 260 Sport
> 3:04.8 - 2012 Audi TT RS
> 3:04.2 - 2011 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
> 3:03.9 - 2012 Porsche Cayman R
> 3:03.8 - 2011 Porsche Boxster Spyder
> 3:02.8 - 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca
> 3:01.5 - *2013* *Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE*



Nice! With those numbers, I could live with the gun-slit style windows on the Camaro.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Cars Man*



Monocrom said:


> Nice! With those numbers, I could live with the gun-slit style windows on the Camaro.



And the Starship Enterprise interior too, yeah, that's what I was thinking..



Burgess said:


> Recently visited Auburn - Cord - Duesenburg Museum, in Auburn Indiana.



The '36 Cord was my grandfather's dream car; I knew about the pop-up headlights on that one, what I didn't know was that it used a "pre-selector" gearshift, basically a stick with an engage-later pedal. Drive along for a lesson here.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Cars Man*

Three days until the 2014 Corvette reveal.

Until then, tuner Ferraris:


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Cars Man*

Ferrari F12 vs Pagani Huayra: I've been waiting for this matchup, the first face-off between the new breed of ~700hp RWD supercars; I've said before that the F12 will probably best the Enzo around the track, but after seeing this video I'm not so sure. The driver isn't that great at finding the line, but it's pretty clear the Huayra is sandbagging it quite a bit, pulling away when in the lead and hanging at the same distance when behind (though to be fair, I'd be terrified to be directly behind a Huayra in a track situation, knowing those giant front and rear airbrakes could pop up at any moment..) This is at least the first time we get to hear/see the F12 in use, and the hardest I've seen a Huayra driven to date..


----------



## crossliner67

*Re: Cars Man*

This is my super car..


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Cars Man*

And here it is, the 2014 Corvette, as predicted 14 months ago. 450 hp 6.2L V8 with cylinder deactivation, 7-speed manual. And yes, it's called "Stingray", at least the base model is; the Z51 is the upgraded model as before.


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Cars Man*

It looks like a Ferrari 458 and a Chevy Camaro got together one drunken night . . . and forgot to use protection.

(You sure it was 14 months ago, instead of *9*?)


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Cars Man*



Monocrom said:


> It looks like a Ferrari 458 and a Chevy Camaro got together one drunken night . . . and forgot to use protection.
> 
> (You sure it was 14 months ago, instead of *9*?)



427 days including end date. And wait until you see a comparison of the front-on view of the new Corvette and new Viper, takes a minute to figure out which is which..


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Cars Man*



StarHalo said:


> And wait until you see a comparison of the front-on view of the new Corvette and new Viper, takes a minute to figure out which is which..



Oh! That's not good.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Cars Man*

Mute the audio and take a walk around the new Vette and all its parts:


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Verified by GM - 2014 Corvette; same 6.2L engine, new 7 speed transmission, no split window or mid engine:



____________^ Nov. 14th *2011* post by StarHalo....Really not off by much there* ^^*
The 2014 Vette looks like the C6 went to Maranello for a long weekend...


----------



## Monocrom

Now that I see it from more angles . . . Yeah, makes my initial take on the design even stronger. 

It's a bit too chiseled for a Corvette.


----------



## orbital

*Re: Cars Man*

+

Chiseled is a good description, and I generally despise sharp lines on cars..

that said,, I do like the new C7


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Cars Man*

The only bit that's not jiving with me is the back end; it gives me the same impression as the back of the late 70's era Trans Ams - ostentatious, a bit much. I wager that'll be changed in the first revision, with taillights more like the near-circles of the Can-Am car, and I'm not sure about the future of the centered exhaust. And the chrome strip on the front grill's gotta go, if not the grill entirely..


----------



## orbital

*Re: Cars Man*

^

GMs' decision to go w/ Camaro style taillight is beyond me,,, there is no logic whatsoever :shakehead
Put round or oval taillights on the Camaro for _____ sake!

Trans-Am racing is 'the' event at Historic races,, they're a blast to watch,
they absolutely ring the neck out of the cars, great fun!!
Back to the subject** Who knows what GM was thinking on the taillights, 
the C7 is too modern looking to try & pull off some retro taillight deal

Can-Am, the _Unlimited _racing of the late 60s' & early 70s', went bye-bye because of Porsche turbocharging.
Those are arguably the most incredible cars {8+ Liter V8s'} to see race in person,,, you can feel those engines in your bones...


----------



## fuzzysig

why does US always get the crappy /strip down models?


----------



## StarHalo

fuzzysig said:


> why does US always get the crappy /strip down models?



The Chevy site says all Corvette models are available in the UK, but there appears to be only one dealer that can order them. But you're right that all the 2014 Corvettes we've seen thus far are all the base model..


----------



## StarHalo

Yes/No? "Mexico Blue":


----------



## Monocrom

No . . . Too close to baby blue.


----------



## StarHalo

I dig it, a very California color; needs to be on a convertible with a wing..

Also, in other news:

*SOLD, $4.6 million*. The Batmobile is worth more than a Porsche Spyder, or a Mercedes Gullwing..


----------



## Monocrom

Hell yeah! How many Batmobiles are there from such an iconic show? Price sounds about right to me.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

$4,600,000 Dollars!!!???..........suumbuuddy wants to be Baaatman. 

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

+

Spending $4,600,000 for a Batmobile would be like spending $150,000 for the complete, _super duper_, Batman collector set, on VHS :mecry:


Garage Sale anyone??


btw,,that color blue will still be timeless in 50 years^^


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> $4,600,000 Dollars!!!???..........suumbuuddy wants to be Baaatman.



That was Jimmy Fallon's comment, that if you had four and a half million dollars to buy the Batmobile, why not just become Batman?

Quite a profit margin, since Barris paid $1 for the car and then did $15,000 of mods. 

Poking around under the hood; the short cold air intake was in fact a standard feature on the Lincoln Futura (the concept car the Batmobile was built on), giving it 330 hp in the same year the all-new Ford Thunderbird had 190:


----------



## Monocrom

There's only one of them, and nothing else looks like it. $4.6 million is nothing compared to to 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Cool points that sweet ride brings to whoever is in her.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Either Monocrom is a billionaire, or has no idea how much $4.6 million is. :nana: 

~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Either Monocrom is a billionaire, or has no idea how much $4.6 million is. :nana:
> 
> ~ Chance



Nope! Don't have money to burn. If I did though, that Batmobile would be on my Top 5 list of extravagant items to buy if I ever become filthy, stinking, rich with a mountain of dirty, dirty, money. (Dirty from the sheer, obscene amount of it. Not from illegal activities. I'm not good enough to be a successful crook . . . Can't stand politics. )


----------



## orbital

+

$460.00 just traded hands __________& phone numbers:whoopin: *oooo, don't stop!!*


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> $460.00 just traded hands __________& phone numbers:whoopin:



 (it's the MR2 engine in a RWD platform - pop off the body panels and laugh as the wheel covers go bouncing away when you get it sideways..)


----------



## orbital

+

Clean Diesel Japanese GT race car?






_Definitely!_


----------



## nbp

*Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

Europe is getting a turbo diesel 6 for 2013..can't wait for that to come to the US!


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

But Australia has Kranky..


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Clean Diesel Japanese GT race car?



I could definitely be seen in it, wrong color scheme though, gotta show off those features.

And speaking of things to be seen in, this is the preview of the new 600 hp Rolls-Royce Wraith; I don't normally pay much attention to the Rolls lineup, but now they have my attention..


----------



## mvyrmnd

*Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



StarHalo said:


> But Australia has Kranky..




I'm guessing it gets 0.01MPG


----------



## orbital

^ 

Looks very Mustang _Fastback _silhouette'ish







Also:: The SpeedSource Mazda diesel will debut at Daytona this weekend //


----------



## Cataract

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

You also have to factor in flames per gallon, smoke per gallon, tires per gallon, donuts per gallon, and gallons per gallon (water vs. fuel). 

Did they ever race that thing in a straight line? I'm curious about actual acceleration.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



Cataract said:


> Did they ever race that thing in a straight line? I'm curious about actual acceleration.



It's more of a showpiece than a drag car, as evidenced by the interior; 1100 hp though..


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



Norm said:


> The 6 cylinder Mazda 6 never sold in Australia.
> 
> Norm



I know, Norm.

I'm so sorry you guys didn't get to experience that sweet V6 engine. 272 hp., 269 pound feet of torque . . . 

Best way to describe the experience is that it turns the Mazda 6 into a Tom-Boy who was sent away to Finishing School in order to become a proper lady. Coming back home as a young woman, she's very lovely in a formal dress. Very well-mannered and reserved. Proper posture. Even a bit of Grace. But deep down inside, you know she's still a Tom-Boy. You know she's aggressively playful. She wants to play, to have fun. There's a devilish twinkle in her eye. A bit of an extra curve in her delightful smile.

When you just need to take a quick trip to the store or drive grand-ma to Bingo, the Mazda 6 is very accommodating. Very reserved. Very well-mannered. Quite comfortable inside (a bit graceful). You can take care of what you need to. And everything is just fine. But if you're alone, and you want some fun; oh yeah!! Put the hammer down. Just punch it! And here comes that Tom-Boyish wild side that is not only willing to indulge your desire to play, but is downright eager to do so! Was waiting for *you* to be ready for her! She loves to play! She can do an excellent job of being a lady. But deep down, she loves to play and is eager to do so. So when you're ready to have fun, you better be ready for a lot of fun! The type where you get pinned to the front seat. The type where the manu-matic gearbox was set up properly. Pull for +, push forward for -. Yup, all other cars got the gearing ***-backwards. Here's the thing . . . When you want to go faster, you should pull back on the stick because your car should pin you to the seat. You're not supposed to lean forward and give it a push, when you want to go faster. That's like trying to kill a vampire by luring it out into the moon-light. Everyone else got it wrong. Mazda got it right.

The four-banger is good. The V6 is wild! Almost bordering on bonkers. Almost . . . cause it's a Mazda. So she stays planted to the ground even at speeds that are quite a bit wild. 

That's the only way I can describe what that sweet engine feels like in the 6. Truth is, all the gears on the transmission are so perfectly spaced; I can't even remember the last time I rowed my own gears. The option is there, but not really needed. It's not the type of set-up where you have to stomp on the gas-pedal a couple of times to get the tranny to shift. It's so beautiful . . .


----------



## nbp

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

Wow, you should work for Mazda. Zoom zoom.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

(Australia is the wrong continent to boast about high-powered sedans to..)


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



mvyrmnd said:


> Reminds me of my old Stage-2 upgraded Saab 9-5.



Yes. But unlike a Saab you can take the 6 down a twisting, turning, back-country road in the rain... without having an "exciting" drive for all the wrong reasons.


----------



## mvyrmnd

*Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



Monocrom said:


> Yes. But unlike a Saab you can take the 6 down a twisting, turning, back-country road in the rain... without having an "exciting" drive for all the wrong reasons.



Mine stopped having that problem, after a few bits were swapped.


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



mvyrmnd said:


> Mine stopped having that problem, after a few bits were swapped.



Hope it wasn't costly.


----------



## mvyrmnd

*Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



Monocrom said:


> Hope it wasn't costly.



Not more costly than it was worth. It was priceless seeing the faces of local V8 drivers after I wiped the floor with them


----------



## Cataract

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



StarHalo said:


> It's more of a showpiece than a drag car, as evidenced by the interior; 1100 hp though..




Nice, but definitely not a car for Canadian winters. Although, flaming tires might get us rid of the ice a whole lot faster than just waiting for spring...


Monocrom: you almost sold me one. Just the fact that they actually know how a shifter should work is already a HUGE selling point for me. Looks like someone actually drove standard at Mazda... How quickly does it shift in manual mode? I rented a couple of cars that felt like it's telling someone else to shift: you know it's coming, but the delay just makes it too impredictible to actually get good performance in curves and plain dangerous in an icy curve.


----------



## StarHalo

McLaren P1 track testing:


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



Cataract said:


> Monocrom: you almost sold me one. Just the fact that they actually know how a shifter should work is already a HUGE selling point for me. Looks like someone actually drove standard at Mazda... How quickly does it shift in manual mode? I rented a couple of cars that felt like it's telling someone else to shift: you know it's coming, but the delay just makes it too impredictible to actually get good performance in curves and plain dangerous in an icy curve.



I know what you mean by manu-matics that are slow to respond or still shift when THEY feel like it anyway, even in manual mode. As mentioned above, it's been awhile since I used the manual mode. But I remember it being very responsive. Just a ting of a tiny hiccup at worst before responding. Definitely better than any of the rental cars I tried out before buying the 6. 

I'm the type who keeps a brand new car 8 years, bare minimum, once having decided on one. Also, it helped at the time that I worked at a job in a patrol vehicle that was constantly breaking down. My supervisor got us some nice rental cars before my cheap-*** boss finally realized a new patrol vehicle would cost less in the long run than constantly renting other cars and paying for constant repairs on the old one.

If you're interested, it's definitely worth at least a test drive. I know it's possible that perhaps I got a good one with a very responsive manu-matic. But I doubt it. Mazda doesn't get nearly as much respect as it should. Next month, I plan on posting a long-term review of my 6 since it'll be four years old next month.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



Monocrom said:


> Mazda doesn't get nearly as much respect as it should.



One of the big stories from the Detroit show was, "There aren't any new Mazdas here."

Also, it's a strange time to shop transmissions as there are a lot of changes taking place lately; Chrysler is going to 8-speeds, Honda is going CVT, the dual-clutch transmission is becoming more common, etc..


----------



## mvyrmnd

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

Auto, semi-auto, dual-clutch auto, CVT can all go and suck it.

Give me a manual, with a clutch.


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



StarHalo said:


> One of the big stories from the Detroit show was, "There aren't any new Mazdas here."
> 
> Also, it's a strange time to shop transmissions as there are a lot of changes taking place lately; Chrysler is going to 8-speeds, Honda is going CVT, the dual-clutch transmission is becoming more common, etc..



8-speed . . . By the time you get into the gear you want, the car shifts too quickly into the one you don't.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



Monocrom said:


> 8-speed . . . By the time you get into the gear you want, the car shifts too quickly into the one you don't.



It's also Audi's 8 speed; close ratios makes the auto V6 300 quicker than the V6 Charger with the stick..


----------



## StarHalo

A very thorough walkaround/rifle-through of the 2014 Corvette, with Jay Leno; includes engine bay, trunk, and startup:


----------



## tjswarbrick

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



Monocrom said:


> I know, Norm.
> 
> I'm so sorry you guys didn't get to experience that sweet V6 engine. 272 hp., 269 pound feet of torque . . .
> 
> Best way to describe the experience is that it turns the Mazda 6 into a Tom-Boy who was sent away to Finishing School in order to become a proper lady. Coming back home as a young woman, she's very lovely in a formal dress. Very well-mannered and reserved. Proper posture. Even a bit of Grace. But deep down inside, you know she's still a Tom-Boy. You know she's aggressively playful. She wants to play, to have fun. There's a devilish twinkle in her eye. A bit of an extra curve in her delightful smile.
> 
> When you just need to take a quick trip to the store or drive grand-ma to Bingo, the Mazda 6 is very accommodating. Very reserved. Very well-mannered. Quite comfortable inside (a bit graceful). You can take care of what you need to. And everything is just fine. But if you're alone, and you want some fun; oh yeah!! Put the hammer down. Just punch it! And here comes that Tom-Boyish wild side that is not only willing to indulge your desire to play, but is downright eager to do so! Was waiting for *you* to be ready for her! She loves to play! She can do an excellent job of being a lady. But deep down, she loves to play and is eager to do so. So when you're ready to have fun, you better be ready for a lot of fun! The type where you get pinned to the front seat. The type where the manu-matic gearbox was set up properly. Pull for +, push forward for -. Yup, all other cars got the gearing ***-backwards. Here's the thing . . . When you want to go faster, you should pull back on the stick because your car should pin you to the seat. You're not supposed to lean forward and give it a push, when you want to go faster. That's like trying to kill a vampire by luring it out into the moon-light. Everyone else got it wrong. Mazda got it right.
> 
> The four-banger is good. The V6 is wild! Almost bordering on bonkers. Almost . . . cause it's a Mazda. So she stays planted to the ground even at speeds that are quite a bit wild.
> 
> That's the only way I can describe what that sweet engine feels like in the 6. Truth is, all the gears on the transmission are so perfectly spaced; I can't even remember the last time I rowed my own gears. The option is there, but not really needed. It's not the type of set-up where you have to stomp on the gas-pedal a couple of times to get the tranny to shift. It's so beautiful . . .



I could be wrong, because the only 3er's I've driven had a stick, but didn't BMW also go this "forward to downshift" route on their manu-matic? After riding motorcycles, I couldn't see it any other way.

I love your description of the 6. My only beef is that much torque through the front wheels. Had a Sentra SE-R, Jetta GLX, and Tiburon SE. None had anywhere near those power levels, were fun to drive, but had torque steer and wierd vectoring issues in the lower gears under throttle.
Now I have a C-230 (in addition to a '66 'Stang.) I dig the C-class chassis, but it has no torque. And needs a stick... They say the 7-speed is a very good one, but I find it fighting me more than helping me when things get interesting. And it's left-to-downshift, right-to-upshift. Wierd - I rarely use that feature. But I just can't play in a FWD car anymore.
My wife's Volvo feels like it wants to leave the road as speed and revs increase. The Merc just feels better and better. (No, it's not actually fast. But'll still do 70 in a 35 zone. Oops.)

Drove an ATS V6 Performance last week. Sweet! Good torque down low, gobs of power up high, insta-revs, and a near telepathic auto box. Can't do a lot of corner-carving on a dealer test drive, but it felt good. Plus it's an "American" car. Color me impressed.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

Possibly the best car sounds video of all time: Put on your good earphones or ready the home theater, this vid is an eight-minute cavalcade of race cars, road cars, rally cars, new, vintage, and everything in-between, recorded with near audiophile levels of ear candy; lots of range and response with all kinds of fun reverberations from the location. Be sure there are no loose items on your walls for the Pantera at 2:28..


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



tjswarbrick said:


> Drove an ATS V6 Performance last week. Sweet! Good torque down low, gobs of power up high, insta-revs, and a near telepathic auto box. Can't do a lot of corner-carving on a dealer test drive, but it felt good. Plus it's an "American" car. Color me impressed.



Yeah, the Cadillac is nice. Though not quite my style. The torque on the V6 Mazda 6 can be an issue. No limited-slip dif.

From a stop, if you slam on the gas, you'll definitely spin the wheels for a couple of seconds as the "slippery road" icon turns on. (Sometimes she's a little too eager to play.) Feather the throttle just a bit until she just starts getting up to speed. Then you can take advantage of that gobs of sweet torque. That low-end torque was one of the main reasons I bought the 6 over other cars from other brands. In the late '90s / early '00s, you could get a nice four-door sedan with both plenty of power as well as tons of torque without spending a huge chunk of money. That definitely changed by '09 when I got my 6. 

My last car lacked low-end torque. Nothing like white-knuckling it down the entrance ramp of a fast-moving, busy, highway to show the importance of torque.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

Called it: If you yearn for those nostalgic days way back in 2013, when the Corvette that's still at your local dealers had rounded taillights, now you can relive the experience with the Corvette that's not yet available:


----------



## orbital

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

+

I'v always had a bit of a soft spot for Lincolns,

the *MKZ* hits it well on all angles


----------



## tjswarbrick

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



orbital said:


> +
> 
> I'v always had a bit of a soft spot for Lincolns,
> 
> the *MKZ* hits it well on all angles



Not that there's anything wrong with it, but isn't that sort of the anti-lincoln?

All creases and folds, FWD, 4-cyl (turbo or hybrid)
It's an interesting new direction for sure, and I wouldn't pass up an opportunity to drive it.
But a Town Car it surely is not.

Looks like there are V6 and AWD models, too. But the launch page is all about MPG.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

It's a luxury Ford Fusion, but as previously mentioned, it's the only version of that chassis available with a V6. And though the center console is my least favorite feature of any car, gotta admit Lincoln makes it more pleasant..


----------



## Vortus

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

Seeing the car sounds vid reminded me of this one from a few years back. The Shell and Ferrari commercial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iItzJc-NHI4


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



Vortus said:


> Seeing the car sounds vid reminded me of this one from a few years back. The Shell and Ferrari commercial.



The gated shifter sounds awesome even when buried in the middle of all that exhaust sound..


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

And the insurance rates on the new Corvette have gone up without it having been released yet:


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

Is that staged?


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

Nope; that's a genuine Arizona cliffside that the Vette bounced into after hitting a guardrail. And those are manufacturer plates, so a GM employee just got fired..


----------



## orbital

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

^

Ran wide, throttle lifted & it send him shooting to the right
_
or_

the braking didn't get done before the corner, all kinds of possible issues here
_
or_

got hit from behind by a Viper for going too slow

_or_

a simple case of the* Curse of the Camaro taillights*


----------



## Launch Mini

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

The scrapes on the drivers side indicate, my guesss, he was cutting a curve to the left, side swiped an oncoming car, over correct & parked ever so gently on the side of the road.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

The Chevy SS: The Pontiac G8/Holden Commodore SS is back, 6.2L 415hp/415lb ft.


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

Okay, GM is clearly run by idiots.


----------



## Burgess

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

How did Thread Title get changed
from Cars, man 
- to - 
Do you at times feel as though you're the "Thread Killer" ? ? ?


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



Monocrom said:


> Okay, GM is clearly run by idiots.



Granted, it doesn't have the "it's-sort-of-like-a-BMW" flair of the old G8, but that could work to your advantage; imagine it in white with plain black steel wheels - you'd never get pulled over..



Burgess said:


> How did Thread Title get changed
> from Cars, man
> - to -
> Do you at times feel as though you're the "Thread Killer" ? ? ?



Mods moving content; the thread was also not started in 2008..


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*



Burgess said:


> How did Thread Title get changed
> from Cars, man
> - to -
> Do you at times feel as though you're the "Thread Killer" ? ? ?



Oh! Looks like a forum glitch. There actually is a topic called "Thread Killer."


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Fixed if for ya.

~ Chance


----------



## EZO

*Re: Do you at times feel as though you’re the “Thread Killer”?*

Apparently at one point, (back at post #1220) the thread title got changed to "World's Fastest Street Car" and was then changed back to "Cars, Man" again at post # 1227 and then to "Do you at times feel as though you're the Thread Killer" at post #1339.

This doesn't bode well........shades of the Great Database Meltdown! .....Wait! "World's Fastest Street Car"? That's not a database error.


Edit: Hmmm.......I see in my very own post here that the title is already back to "Thread Killer"......This can't be good.


----------



## Empath

Any reply made to this thread, other than the "quick reply" method, gives you the option of naming the post.

The title likely got changed when the discussion in the "thread killer" thread started to become another "Cars, Man" thread, and the posts got moved here with the title intact.


----------



## StarHalo

But can you restore the opening post/move the errant first post?


----------



## Empath

StarHalo said:


> But can you restore the opening post/move the errant first post?



If I understand what you said it's back in the other thread now. It's buried far enough back that it shouldn't initiate the change of direction now, ...... maybe.


----------



## StarHalo

No, post #1 of this thread was posted during the Great Time Change, the time on that post is incorrect..


----------



## Empath

_Originally posted by *RBR*, but lost proper placement._







StarHalo said:


> German tri-axle two-stroke diesel tank transport converted into a roadster:



Horrible !

Whoever did this couldn´t have done a worse job.

They should have scrapped it rather than making this piece of garbage of it. 

Cheers


----------



## Empath

StarHalo said:


> No, post #1 of this thread was posted during the Great Time Change, the time on that post is incorrect..



I've reconstructed it to the extent possible. I'm limited in working with the number one post of a thread. Removing the first post of a thread removes the entire thread. I was limited to editing.


----------



## StarHalo

Ah well, we'll just duct tape 'er back together an' git er' on down the road..

Meanwhile, 60's-era Mini Cooper with motorcycle engine:


----------



## StarHalo

McLaren P1 drivetrain details; 903 total horsepower:


----------



## ThirstyTurtle

Mjolnir said:


> I was in DC the other day and I came across a Tesla Roadster Sport with a carbon fiber hood parked by the side of the road (sorry, no pictures).
> 
> In the memorial day parade in DC they had 3 Rolls Royce Phantom Drophead Coupes (also no pictures except with my phone, which are not worth posting). They go for $412,000 each, and come complete with teak decks in the back.



My dad had (until recently totalled) a 1991 Rolls Royce Silver Spur II. 

He now has a Tesla Roadster 2.5 Sport and a Tesla Model S. 

He's giving me the Roadster for the next 6 months until the lease runs out  he owns the S though!


----------



## StarHalo

ThirstyTurtle said:


> He's giving me the Roadster for the next 6 months until the lease runs out



Find this out for us - does it peel out if you stomp the throttle from a stop, and is it more willing to peel out if you do the same thing in reverse? This was a discussion we were having about the Roadster some time ago..


----------



## orbital

^ McLaren P1

Just when did street cars, anyone can buy, have more horsepower than GT race cars?? *
looky here, no turbo lag* 

_
That McLaren would not fit into any racing class,, not even prototype {P1, P2}
If you pulled off the turbos and bent the rules a bit, maybe it could be slotted in the ALMS GT class (they're looking for alternative tech)


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> If you pulled off the turbos and bent the rules a bit



There'd still be the issue of active aero. And all indications are that the Ferrari Enzo replacement will have 950 horsepower.


----------



## ThirstyTurtle

StarHalo said:


> Find this out for us - does it peel out if you stomp the throttle from a stop, and is it more willing to peel out if you do the same thing in reverse? This was a discussion we were having about the Roadster some time ago..



I might be able to test this for you, depending on the shape the current tires are in...I'm not trying to put on new tires before I turn it back over to Tesla.

I can tell you this though, the gearing is identical in both directions as the motor actually turns backwards for reverse. It'll hit 60mph+ in reverse or however fast you're comfortable driving it in reverse. I personally probably wouldn't go over probably 30 and even then it'd have to be in an awfully open parking lot.

I've driven it dozens of times, but never with the TC off, I definitely plan on testing it out a bit once I get it in 3 weeks.


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> McLaren P1 drivetrain details; 903 total horsepower:



Ditching the batteries and electric motor would be a great start


----------



## StarHalo

ThirstyTurtle said:


> I can tell you this though, the gearing is identical in both directions as the motor actually turns backwards for reverse.



Right, but from what I've seen, the car doesn't allow full motor power from a dead stop - it carefully parses it out so the tires aren't overwhelmed with all the idle torque, and you can watch the power gauge slowly climb as MPH rises. But it has no power-metering provision for the reverse gear, so stomping it in reverse causes the motor to dump all 295 lb ft. of torque in an instant and do a muscle-car wall-of-smoke burnout. In theory, at least.


----------



## edcmachine

Wow, some wicked cars in here. I enjoy a plain old muscle car myself, but some of these are breathtaking.


----------



## StarHalo

edcmachine said:


> but some of these are breathtaking.



Have some carbon fiber trimmed in carbon fiber with extra carbon fiber:


----------



## ThirstyTurtle

StarHalo said:


> Right, but from what I've seen, the car doesn't allow full motor power from a dead stop - it carefully parses it out so the tires aren't overwhelmed with all the idle torque, and you can watch the power gauge slowly climb as MPH rises. But it has no power-metering provision for the reverse gear, so stomping it in reverse causes the motor to dump all 295 lb ft. of torque in an instant and do a muscle-car wall-of-smoke burnout. In theory, at least.



Interesting! I didn't realize that about the power being rationed out but _maybe_ not in reverse. I have stomped it from a dead stop many times and it definitely feels like a lag up until about 5-6mph and then it SHOOTS out from under you. however, I've always had the traction control on so I figured that was the reason. I never burned out or anything as the tires aren't cheap and my dad probably wouldn't have liked that much, haha.

I'll see what I can figure out for you though!


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Have some carbon fiber trimmed in carbon fiber with extra carbon fiber:..



+

Funny _

_.._can you say_ money laundering_


----------



## H-Man

kwak said:


> Ditching the batteries and electric motor would be a great start


The electric motor is probably going to give this thing a monstrous amount of low end torque and deal with the turbo lag somewhat.


----------



## StarHalo

2014 Jeep Cherokee, production copy.

And every Jeep forum in the world will crash in 3..2..1..


----------



## kwak

H-Man said:


> The electric motor is probably going to give this thing a monstrous amount of low end torque and deal with the turbo lag somewhat.



Personally i'd sooner have a car that's lighter 100% of the time (no batteries or electric motor) rather than have a few extra horses say 3% of the time.

Driven a fair few hybrids and a few electric only cars and i was not impressed by any of them, to much of a compromise for no real gain.


----------



## StarHalo

Yes/no? Aston Martin Rapide Bertone Jet 2+2:


----------



## tjswarbrick

StarHalo said:


> Yes/no? Aston Martin Rapide Bertone Jet 2+2:



I'd take it over the wife's V70 2.5T...


----------



## jabe1

That looks like the ultimate Eurowagen, and I'm partial to them. WOW!


----------



## Frijid

If i could have 1 car of my choice it wouldn't be a mustang, corvette or anything. it would simply be this


----------



## StarHalo

Frijid said:


> it would simply be this



You missed the one on EBay that had 10 miles on it.

Be aware that the performance bar has changed significantly since then, a base Mustang GT can now outrun one of those..


----------



## Frijid

StarHalo said:


> Be aware that the performance bar has changed significantly since then, a base Mustang GT can now outrun one of those..



i've seen some of ebay about a month ago, they were high in price. speed's not an option to me, i just want one for looks. if i ever do win the lottery, i'll buy one of those, and one of these babies 







Speaking of old cars, i've got a family member who is bascially giving away one of theses







Only wants 1,600 dollars for it. EVERYTHING works, only has 98,000 miles on it. had the apex seal replaced about a year ago. it didn't even need replaced, just wanted to replace it anyways. i've drove it, it's really nice. i'm not one for japanese vehicles, but i really love this car. look at the price of some of them on ebay. around 2,500+ for one. i've been tempted to buy it.


----------



## StarHalo

Frijid said:


> Only wants 1,600 dollars for it.



Keep a case of oil in the trunk and check the dip every time you gas up. And it has more handling that it has horsepower, so don't expect to win any stoplight battles. Short of that, yes, cheap fun indeed..


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> .. And it has more handling that it has horsepower, so don't expect to win any stoplight battles. Short of that, yes, cheap fun indeed..



+

Had a chance to drive a beater RX7, jeeez must have been like 20 years ago,,_ can't believe it was 20 years ago_
anyway, it was the first high revving car I drove, the tach kept climbing & climbing..

just a blast to drive


----------



## StarHalo

And my favorite mod with all older cars is the straight pipe conversion; here's what the first-gen RX-7 sounds like without emissions controls:


----------



## Launch Mini

A friend of mine had a First Gen like the one SH posted, open pipes and drove it on the road. I could literally hear him coming from a mile away. ( rural area, the sound travelled really well across the fields).


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

What has a 536 horsepower motor with 560 pound feet of torque connected to six 37 inch tires via five locking differentials and weighs only 8,322 pounds?

*The Mercedes BenzG63 6x6 *

At a dealer near you...NOT! 
$450,000 
Lest I forget, the cargo bed is finished in polished bamboo. :naughty:


----------



## orbital

^

Mercs' got nothing on *Oshkosh* *in the tough department,, browse their catalog:
http://www.oshkoshdefense.com/products







*less than an hour from me


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> And my favorite mod with all older cars is the straight pipe conversion; here's what the first-gen RX-7 sounds like without emissions controls:


 

I've always enjoyed the RX-7. Great ride....if you don't mind checking the gas every time you fill it with oil. 

~ Chance


----------



## Burgess

*The Mercedes Benz G63 6x6 


*Quite an impressive vehicle.

As it *should* be, for half-a-Million bucks !


Gotta' admit, however . . . .


Its tandem rear-axle reminds me
of the special Touring Cars which Mercedes made for Adolph Hitler.


_


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

I know, right? That's a whole lot a ugly for a half-million bucks!

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

You guys don't remember the Dodge Ram T-Rex? I hung out with one of these at a car show back in the day, I'm surprised they never did anything with it..


----------



## Frijid

StarHalo said:


> You guys don't remember the Dodge Ram T-Rex? I hung out with one of these at a car show back in the day, I'm surprised they never did anything with it..



i never was/nor will i ever be a dodge person, but i will say that is cool looking. i'd still rather have the vintage power wagon though. i have a soft spot for military vehicles


----------



## Frijid

StarHalo said:


> Keep a case of oil in the trunk and check the dip every time you gas up. And it has more handling that it has horsepower, so don't expect to win any stoplight battles. Short of that, yes, cheap fun indeed..



he has the manual for it, i read it and it says a little bit of burning is normal and is supposed to. i drove it for a week when i was out of a vehicle when a guy in an f-350 was texting and ran a stoplight and t-boned me, so i drove it around. i checked the oil often and it didn't drop that much, but he always kept the maintenance up on it and took very good care of it. the whole week i had it, i only had to put about 1/4 of a quart of oil in it and that was driving it about 80 miles a day. 

I seen a video on youtube where a guy purposely blew one up, by holding the gas pedal to the floor, it took it for over 9 minutes. i was impressed, it would be hard i'd figure for a piston engine to take this


----------



## 4sevens

BAC Mono


----------



## StarHalo

4sevens said:


> BAC Mono



After seeing Caterhams and X-Bows, it almost looks like it has too many body panels..


----------



## StarHalo

The weather's fine in Geneva, where it's raining supercars:

Ferrari LaFerrari, 963 HP, 1 of 499:











Lamborghini Veneno, 750 HP, 1 of 3:


----------



## Kremer

StarHalo said:


>



New batmobile?


----------



## StarHalo

Kremer said:


> New batmobile?



Well Bruce Wayne does prefer exclusive Lambos, and he'd be the only one who could afford it; The Bat prefers truck-like things these days..

And speaking of trucks, some folks are pondering restarting the compact segment, like Jeep:






And Mitsubishi:


----------



## StarHalo

Superfluous body panels not included; Pagani Huayra:


----------



## orbital

+

There needs to be an inexpensive mid-engined car

Something like an Elise but cheaper,, with a direct injected 2.4L _strait4_ singing happily between the rear wheels and your ears..





__________ an Elise ^


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> There needs to be an inexpensive mid-engined car



Nobody went for the last one..


----------



## orbital

+

..was thinking twice the HP & lower to the ground.

close ratio 6-speed also


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> ..was thinking twice the HP & lower to the ground.



This comes much closer to your criteria, minus the amidships engine and extra cog; it was also mostly ignored, despite the fact that performance-wise it fit neatly between the Porsche Boxster and Boxster S..


----------



## Monocrom

Would rather have a current version Mazda Miata.

Yes, I know it doesn't fit all the criteria and they don't even call it a Miata anymore. But yeah . . .


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Would rather have a current version Mazda Miata.



Over the 260 HP, potentially 290 HP Sky Redline?


----------



## Yorgi

StarHalo said:


> Nobody went for the last one..


With 1.5 ft3 of storage space it's no wonder the MR-S was a flop. Not sure what Toyota was smoking. Toyota seems to got it very right with the FR-S though.

My track dog:





On the Tail of the Dragon. Going down again in April:





Currently drooling over this, the 2014 GT3:


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> Over the 260 HP, potentially 290 HP Sky Redline?



A FI'd Miata :thumbsup:


----------



## orbital

+

*Starting in 2014, Sports car racing in the US will be:*








~ glad it's sanctioned by IMSA


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Over the 260 HP, potentially 290 HP Sky Redline?



I'll take Go-Cart handling over power (in a roadster) every single time.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> I'll take Go-Cart handling over power (in a roadster) every single time.



Ah, well if price is no object..


----------



## kwak

Monocrom said:


> I'll take Go-Cart handling over power (in a roadster) every single time.



Always strikes me as a weird statement that "Go-Kart handling" i've raced Go-karts and can say without a shadow of a doubt on bumpy tracks they handle absolutely terribly.

There is no way i'd ever buy a car that had no suspension.


----------



## orbital

+

There will never be a nicer looking car than the one built remembering Enzos' son


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Ah, well if price is no object..



No thanks. Mr. Ferrari once described his customers as fools for paying the asking prices on the cars he produced. He used the funds from the sales to finance his racing obsession. The guy was just an *** with eye-balls. Can't bring myself to even consider anything with the Ferrari logo on it.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Can't bring myself to even consider anything with the Ferrari logo on it.



Fair enough, but all the truly go-kart-handling roadsters nowadays [that aren't track toys] are front wheel drive..


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> Fair enough, but all the truly go-kart-handling roadsters nowadays [that aren't track toys] are front wheel drive..



Roadster :laughing::laughing:


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Fair enough, but all the truly go-kart-handling roadsters nowadays [that aren't track toys] are front wheel drive..



+

My niece just got one couple weeks ago,, haven't talked to her yet how she likes it.

...my guess is that she doesn't hate it


----------



## StarHalo

kwak said:


> Roadster



Two seats and a trunk, that is indeed a roadster (and a turbo stuffed under the hood, so it'll match a Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S around a track..)


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> Two seats and a trunk, that is indeed a roadster (and a turbo stuffed under the hood, so it'll match a Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S around a track..)



It's a sloppy wobbly Mini cabrio with a bigger boot and the rear seats removed.

If it drives anything like the other Mini cabrio's i've driven it'll be dull handling, dead for feel and scuttle shake it's heart out.

Anyone that buys the cabrio version of a car has absolutely no interest in lap times, if they did they'd buy the coupe version instead.
Cabrio's are for posers plain and simple.


----------



## Yorgi

kwak said:


> ....Cabrio's are for posers plain and simple.


I disagree with this completely. Some people appreciate wind in their hair, the smell of countryside air, _and_ ripping around a track.

I do think that mini cab looks like a hot-wheel toy car though.


----------



## orbital

kwak said:


> ..
> Cabrio's are for posers plain and simple.



____________^
*

Particularly lame statement.*

Convertible _anything_ adds essence to a great fun drive


----------



## StarHalo

The Mini Cooper I'm posting is the "Roadster John Cooper Works" model - it's in the name; note that it is not a hatchback.

And maybe there's no use for a roadster where you're at, but here in Southern California: [I passed a Porsche Carrera GT shortly before taking this pic, also a roadster..]


----------



## Yorgi

StarHalo said:


> ....[I passed a Porsche Carrera GT shortly before taking this pic, also a roadster..]


Great shot. How did you pass him? Was he poser or were you driving an Enzo? 

Personally I would have stayed behind the Carerra GT with my windows/top down to listen to the unearthly induction howel of that V10. After an F1 motor at full song, the GT is the best sounding mechanical noise I've heard.


----------



## kwak

Come on guys, if your going to quote me at least try and keep the context of my quote.



kwak said:


> Anyone that buys the cabrio version of a car has absolutely no interest in lap times, *if they did they'd buy the coupe version instead*.
> Cabrio's are for posers plain and simple.



There are many absolutely fantastic open top cars, Caterham 7, Arial Atom, Elise even the Boxster and MX5/Miata/Eunos Roadster.
There is no denying that.

My point is, if there is a cabrio version of a coupe, hatchback etc only a poser would choose the cabrio version.

If you disagree then please list me the cars who's cabrio versions are the same or not heavier AND as rigid as the the coupe/hatch etc version?

Be it Mini, BMW, Audi or whoever if they cut the top off a couple they HAVE to add rigidity to the chassis (therefore weight) to compensate for the car no longer having a roof.

This loss of rigidity and twisting of the chassis manifests itself by scuttle shake.
On the road you will notice scuttle shake when driving round a bumpy road or even more on a bumpy corner, on the track the extra stress on the chassis means it manifests itself even more, add to that the extra weight from stiffening the chassis and it's a no brainer.


----------



## Launch Mini

I have a Cabrio. 
I know the body isn't as rigid as the Coupe, but it is a great top down driving experience.
I had a motorcycle, between the idiot drivers trying to kill me, my "poor" eyesight ( needed to see drivers trying to kill me), and wife not wanting to ride on the back, the Cabrio was the perfect solution.
Top down when needed, a boot for my stuff, a seat for my wife, and a top that can go up when the weather isn't cooperating.
I don't push it anywhere nears it's limits, so the extra I would gain from a Coupe are wasted.


----------



## StarHalo

Yorgi said:


> Great shot. How did you pass him?



lol, he was driving the other way. Still the only GT in yellow I've seen to this day..


----------



## orbital

kwak said:


> ..My point is, if there is a cabrio version of a coupe, hatchback etc only a poser would choose the cabrio version.



... and yet another [email protected]!$hf* comment______^

kwak, you obviously fancy yourself as being a really *racy* guy,, 
but alot of people buy convertibles just for the driving experience.

_How many people reading this are thinking about a track car only?_


----------



## Launch Mini

I had the Couple version of my car first. Yes it was tighter, but in all honesty was too tight for a daily driver.
The Cab is much more of a daily driver. I even went a size smaller on the rims so there is more rubber to cushion the drive.
We drove it from Vancouver BC , down the coast to LA, Across to the Grand Canyon, Back up through Utah, Idaho... home. 6,050km glorious top down the entire way. 
We did the same drive in the Coupe the year before. 
Hands down, we prefered the Cab
The flex in the body probably helped on some of the less than desirable roads. Give me the open air wind noise over the harsh suspension, low profile tires of my Coupe.
Nothing like driving to work with the top up, the sun comes out, drop the top at a stop light & continue on my way.
Your mileage may vary.


----------



## Monocrom

I'd love to own a drop-top. But living in NYC, it would have to be a model with a folding metal roof.

There's a reason why subways and buses in the Big Apple come equipped with hard plastic seats. Same reason why folding metal roofs had to be invented for those who love open-air motoring.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> living in NYC, it would have to be a model with a folding metal roof.



That is indeed where the Miata comes in..


----------



## kwak

orbital said:


> ... and yet another [email protected]!$hf* comment______^
> 
> kwak, you obviously fancy yourself as being a really *racy* guy,,
> but alot of people buy convertibles just for the driving experience.
> 
> _How many people reading this are thinking about a track car only?_



My post was in response to:


StarHalo said:


> so it'll match a Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S around a track..)




It was not me that bought cabrio's and track up, i merely stated my opinion :thumbsup: 

I am one of those people that has owned several cabrio's over the years, from Elans and Spitfires through to my current 1994 Eunos Roadster (Miata) that i've raced, daily's and toured in over the last 10 years.

Add to that the fact that i'm extremely lucky in that i get to drive a fair few different cars on a regular basis.
Add to this jobs that have seen me cover 100k miles a year.
Add again the fact that i've been racing something with 2 or 4 wheels for getting on to 30 years i figured that i was qualified to have an opinion.

As you've called my out twice now i would be extremely grateful if you could share with us your experience and how long you have had a cabrio car for?



Launch Mini said:


> I had the Couple version of my car first. Yes it was tighter, but in all honesty was too tight for a daily driver.
> The Cab is much more of a daily driver. I even went a size smaller on the rims so there is more rubber to cushion the drive.
> We drove it from Vancouver BC , down the coast to LA, Across to the Grand Canyon, Back up through Utah, Idaho... home. 6,050km glorious top down the entire way.
> We did the same drive in the Coupe the year before.
> Hands down, we prefered the Cab
> The flex in the body probably helped on some of the less than desirable roads. Give me the open air wind noise over the harsh suspension, low profile tires of my Coupe.
> Nothing like driving to work with the top up, the sun comes out, drop the top at a stop light & continue on my way.
> Your mileage may vary.



The problem is your confusing body flex here with suspension control, they are completely separate things.

For a cars suspension to work effectively it's absolutely essential that it is mounted on a rigid platform, if there is any deflection in the chassis then this is actually preventing the suspension for working at it's full potential.


I do agree completely that cars these days are rolling out the factory's with ridiculously sized wheels.
That is likely to stay as long as car manufacturers allow wheels and tyre sizes to be dictated by designers rather than engineers, unfortunately we the car buying public is at fault here as most people do not have a clue about vehicle dynamics and tend to think the bigger the wheels the better, if we didn't keep ordering the bigger wheels they'd no longer sell them.

Smaller wheels and higher profile tyres really are not the answer to a rough a ride though as again it's the suspension that should control the ride.
Obviously taller tyres will absorb some of the smaller impacts BUT a tyres rate of compression and damping is not well controlled, so this often just compounds the problem as the stiff suspension puts more stress on the tyres.
Plus taller tyres do tend to loose a fair bit of feel on cornering.

I can understand fitting massive wheels on a Bentley, Cayenne, Audi RS etc as these are big heavy cars that require big brakes to bring them to a quick and more importantly consistent stop.
But we're seeing small lightish cars roll out the factory with 17" and 18" wheels these days, what a waste.


I digress though.
Some new shocks and springs would have sorted it out a LOT better than relying on body flex and taller profile tyres.

Should have left the factory softer but AGAIN though car manufacturers are pandering more to designers and it's customers on ride stiffness and height, as AGAIN the general public foolishly believe that a low, stiffly suspended car MUST be faster as that's what they've seen on the fast and the mildly annoyed.

:shakehead


I do agree with poping the roof down though.
Was talking about this with the Mrs earlier today, in the 10 years i've had the Roadster i can count the amount of time i've driven the car with the roof up on 2 hands. :thumbsup:


----------



## Yorgi

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I don't get how a guy who races a (wobbly) first gen Miata calls people who buy cab versions of coupes posers if they track them? I have a dedicated track car and I still have a blast when driving my 4,200lb 650i cab on a track. Top down is top down. And anyone who has the cojones to bring their car on a track is not a poser in my books.

Note that the first, second and third gen Miata is less stiff than the first gen Mini cab. The 2nd gen Mini cab is stiffer than the prior version.

*Some torsional stiffness figures (higher is better):*
Mazda NA and NB: 6000 Nm/degree
Mazda Miata NC: 8800 Nm/degree
1st gen MINI Cooper Convertible: 9000 Nm/degree


----------



## kwak

Yorgi said:


> Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I don't get how a guy who races a (wobbly) first gen Miata calls people who buy cab versions of coupes posers if they track them? I have a dedicated track car and I still have a blast when driving my 4,200lb 650i cab on a track. Top down is top down. And anyone who has the cojones to bring their car on a track is not a poser in my books.
> 
> Note that the first, second and third gen Miata is less stiff than the first gen Mini cab. The 2nd gen Mini cab is stiffer than the prior version.
> 
> *Some torsional stiffness figures (higher is better):*
> Mazda NA and NB: 6000 Nm/degree
> Mazda Miata NC: 8800 Nm/degree
> 1st gen MINI Cooper Convertible: 9000 Nm/degree



A few points.

1/ The MX5 was not readily available as a coupe (there was a coupe but it was NB and is extremely rare), if there was a coupe then that is what i would have gone for.
I bought a MX5 because it was rwd, under 1000kg, reliable, small and fun to drive.

2/ My car is far from standard, seam welding, roll cage, strut brace, chassis bracing etc etc etc all play a MASSIVE amount in chassis rigidity.

3/ It's notoriously difficult to get good consistent real world measurements between car for torsional rigidity, even then it's only a small sentence in a very large book of what makes a good handling car.

4/ The Mini cabrio might well be 9000 Nm/°, The coupe is 24500 Nm/° though, that's 3 times the rigidity.


If track performance was a major factor in the decision to buy a car, then you would go for the coupe, no if's but's or maybe's.

YES you can drive a sloppy chassis'd car round a track, you can even have fun in it.
If a car is offered as a coupe and cabrio though, the coupe will always be the lightest, more rigid and fastest version around a track.

By that logic, driving top down and telling folks you own a cabrio is more important to you than performance.
Therefore = poser 

Next time your out keep an eye out for cabrio's and keep a mental note on how many you see on a lovely bright, dry day driving around with the roof up.
I'd bet you my underpants that it's over 80% with the roof up.

We all know folks that have cabrio's but rarely have the down, we had a woman in the garage earlier this year with a Renault Megane cabrio, after the service we went through and tested everything including the roof, upon opening the roof there was that almighty tearing noise.
Turned out it was the seals, in the 5 years she's had the car she has not once opened the roof.

Hey we all have our faults.
Out of the cars i own, 1 is a Miata, another a Smart for2, both cars many consider to be the ghayest things on 4 wheels (behind Mini cabrio's of course  ), doesn't bother me in the slightest as i tend not to care in the slightest what other people think of me.
So we all have our faults and being a poser is pretty damn good compared to others possible personality problems people have.

:thumbsup:


----------



## kwak

Forgot to say, fantastic response btw Yorgi :thumbsup:


----------



## Launch Mini

90% of my driving is commuting. My computer tells me my average speed is 44.7k/hr.
Do I "need"performance for this. NO
Do I need a rigid frame. NO
Do I need a car that did 0-60 in 4.0s, NO or top speed of 275km/H. NO
Will the local authorities take my car away FOR EVER, if I drive over 40km/h over the posted limits. YES.
Did I ever take it on the track. NO
Did I ever let my daughter or her boyfriend drive it. NO. Way too much for a novice driver.
Was it fun to drive. H3LL YEAH.

Scaled back on performance, removed the top, have a more overall enjoyable car to drive and let the whole family drive it.
Your right 80% or more of my driving is top up, but you can't drive the other 20% if you have a Coupe.
YMMV.

Would I buy Cab's for ALL my cars. NO.


----------



## kwak

Launch Mini said:


> 90% of my driving is commuting. My computer tells me my average speed is 44.7k/hr.
> Do I "need"performance for this. NO
> Do I need a rigid frame. NO
> Do I need a car that did 0-60 in 4.0s, NO or top speed of 275km/H. NO
> Will the local authorities take my car away FOR EVER, if I drive over 40km/h over the posted limits. YES.
> Did I ever take it on the track. NO
> Did I ever let my daughter or her boyfriend drive it. NO. Way too much for a novice driver.
> Was it fun to drive. H3LL YEAH.
> 
> Scaled back on performance, removed the top, have a more overall enjoyable car to drive and let the whole family drive it.
> Your right 80% or more of my driving is top up, but you can't drive the other 20% if you have a Coupe.
> YMMV.
> 
> Would I buy Cab's for ALL my cars. NO.



My response was not aimed at you, as i clearly quoted it was in response to:



StarHalo said:


> so it'll match a Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S around a track..)



I also clearly stated



kwak said:


> A few points.
> *If* track performance was a major factor in the decision to buy a car, then you would go for the coupe, no if's but's or maybe's.



As you've stated:



Launch Mini said:


> .
> Did I ever take it on the track. NO



I'm not sure why you'd respond as obviously your priority is posing, again that's your money your choice.

To clarify again.
My point is that no one in their right mind buys the cabrio version if track and performance driving is their priority, if there is a coupe version available this will be lighter, more rigid and respond better to both track driving and latter track performance enhancing modifications.


----------



## Launch Mini

To clarify again.
My point is that no one in their right mind buys the cabrio version if track and performance driving is their priority, if there is a coupe version available this will be lighter, more rigid and respond better to both track driving and latter track performance enhancing modifications.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree, unless of course you are talking F1 or IRL


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

If it walks like a duck and kwaks like a duck, it's a duck.......or a troll who states people who drive cabrio's are posers to start an argument so he can display his vast knowledge and talk about his cool cars. People who enjoy helping others by sharing their wealth of knowledge. Not posers. People who have a need to impress others with their knowledge and stuff, all the while not caring if anyone learns anything but how cool they are. Posers.

Dont feed the trolls.

~ Chance


----------



## kwak

Launch Mini said:


> Totally agree, unless of course you are talking F1 or IRL



Neither of which are available as a coupe version.



Chauncey Gardiner said:


> If it walks like a duck and kwaks like a duck, it's a duck.......or a troll who states people who drive cabrio's are posers to start an argument so he can display his vast knowledge and talk about his cool cars. People who enjoy helping others by sharing their wealth of knowledge. Not posers. People who have a need to impress others with their knowledge and stuff, all the while not caring if anyone learns anything but how cool they are. Posers.
> 
> Dont feed the trolls.
> 
> ~ Chance



So to clarify.
You have offered absolutely nothing to the conversation, no opinion, no insight, no thoughts and nothing other than berate and belittle another persons well thought out and well presented opinion.
Yet you call me a troll




Thanks for that, cheered me up no end :thumbsup: 

I did not start an argument i simply am not a fan of the Mini cabrio, after being called on that i stated my opinion, why i have my opinion, and what experience i have in the hope of furthering the discussion.

P.S.
Since when have Miatas and Smart for2's been cool  :fail:


----------



## StarHalo

Do try to have fun, kids..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

kwak said:


> Since when have Miatas and Smart for2's been cool  :fail:


----------



## orbital

+

had to find this car
(took a bit,, the taillights gave me something to work with)

:thumbsup:


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> had to find this car
> (took a bit,, the taillights gave me something to work with)



It's basically a police cruiser coupe convertible, good times..


----------



## StarHalo

More video awesomeness from the golden age of cam footage; this video achieves what every movie about being a racecar driver is about - follow along with C6.R Corvette driver Tommy Milner as he gears up, goes over details with the crew chief and pit crew, then climbs in and makes some nighttime runs around Sebring. Watch as the Vette's complex instrumentation warns of tire slip and nearby cars (and nearby pit crew when he pits.) A truly first-person experience of the real deal.


----------



## Launch Mini

Very cool. 
I love the Ken Block video's on youtube. Every guys dream to drive like that.


----------



## orbital

+

I think it's Milners third season w/ Pratt Miller Vette now. 
Saw him make a huge mistake at Road America last year, he could easily have won..

btw, he *did* just win Sebring 12hr GT class,,, by brother-n-law was there


----------



## StarHalo

2014 Cadillac CTS, production copy. Optional 420 hp twin-turbo V6:


----------



## orbital

^

Was going to post that *motor *last week, only paired w/ an automatic {{LAME!}}

I'll take the 6-speed 2L turbo ATS,,, _hello remap_


----------



## StarHalo

The Z/28 is back, in the updated Camaro body; 427 c.i./500 hp, over 100 lbs lighter than the ZL1, no stereo, A/C optional:


----------



## orbital

+

Around 600 months of racing and refinement





_...Dr. Porsche said the most important part of the car was the brakes_


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


>



What the heck is up with the Honda Prelude taillights?


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Around 600 months of racing and refinement



Funny thing about that - the passenger compartment is still the exact same size, while the rest of the car grows around it; all 911s are widebodies now..








Monocrom said:


> What the heck is up with the Honda Prelude taillights?



Yeah, I see Nissan 240z lights, but now no one can say the Vette has Camaro taillights; they're technically a logical evolution of the original:


----------



## Monocrom

Looks like I'll be buying pre-2013 if I decide to get a Camaro. 

The old lights were sexy. The new ones aren't. I can deal with an average front-end. But that backside better be good-looking!


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Funny thing about that - the passenger compartment is still the exact same size, while the rest of the car grows around it; all 911s are widebodies now..



+

Yea, the cockpit is all business.
I guess Porsche engineers skip the 96oz. High Fructose drink with their lunch..

add:
Porsche tries very hard to keep their distinct 911 roofline, even in full blown race versions





______^ a good 35 years ago





________^ this Spring


----------



## StarHalo

4600 spacious pounds of leather, wood, tech toys, and 21 inch wheels, 0-60 in 3.6 seconds..


----------



## orbital

_*+

The best things about racing are the senses you get,
smell of brakes, tires & exhaust.
Ahh, hearing the exhaust note,, easily the best part

The feel of the engine pounding/screaming as the tires try to break adhesion they desperately want.
This all from a machine, yes just a machine


All Steve's work over the years cover this & more..
on track or not
*_


----------



## StarHalo

49 years old today:


----------



## StarHalo

Lamborghini Aventador LP720-4 50 Anniversario; some serious aero bits add 50% more downforce - this Aventador should be significantly quicker around a track than the stock version:


----------



## StarHalo

A lovely day to be out at Newport Beach today, some other folks who agreed:

McLaren MP4-12C; remarkably bright taillights, hard to miss even from a distance
Ferrari 458 Italia; easy to overlook in silver, but that's probably the only way to have a "sleeper" Ferrari
Dodge Viper; from ~'10, only the back end is looking aged, the rest still looks great
Chevy Corvette; ~'60 convertible, double white with red interior, which is the correct color scheme for all convertible 'Vettes
Callaway Corvette; a funky sea blue metallic, but targa top counts as half a convertible
Audi S5; the proper German pony car, saw two
Volkswagen Thing; not all that remarkable at a beach city, but this one had no windshield
Ford Bronco; ~'77 convertible, just needs surfboards in the back
BMW 2002; always good to see someone can afford to keep a vintage beemer running
Nissan Leaf; the reason electric cars are rare elsewhere is because they're all on the west coast; saw two


----------



## orbital

+

Toyota to start building Lexus {ES350} in their Kentucky plant


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Toyota to start building Lexus {ES350} in their Kentucky plant



I like the ES, comfy stuff, though it's a shame Toyota has made the difference between the Camry and the ES completely bipolar, as opposed to when the Camry had a bit of quality to its interior..

Speaking of variations on family sedans, when did the Accord coupe get the back end from a Porsche?


----------



## orbital

_______^

good eye


----------



## Monocrom

Ironically though, it works on that Honda model.


----------



## StarHalo

Aussies again: The Holden HSV GTS; the same model as now sold in the US as the Chevy SS, but with the engine from the Camaro ZL1, 575 hp/550 lb-ft. That's more power than the Cadillac CTS-V..


----------



## Monocrom

Damn! Looks like Holden should have followed Honda's lead and copied the back end of a Porsche too.

What's up with that alien bug backside??


----------



## orbital

+

GM is officially* taillight challenged*


----------



## StarHalo

It's a variation on the Malibu's taillights, which I see daily since the old guy across the way from me replaced his Buick Lucerne with one..


----------



## Monocrom

Leave it to the idiot executives at GM to turn a decent set of taillights into an ugly monstrosity.


----------



## StarHalo

Er, Impala, not Malibu, duh; the leaping animal on the d-pillar would be a good reminder..

And yes, Chevy's all over the place with taillights nowadays, but they are getting some things right with the Impala:


----------



## Monocrom

Yup . . . some . . . Definitely not those demonic-looking gauges though.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Yup . . . some . . . Definitely not those demonic-looking gauges though.



It's missing the column tach..


----------



## Monocrom

A definite oversight.


----------



## StarHalo

Suzuka Circuit: Ferrari F50 vs. Ferrari F40 vs. Ferrari F355 vs. Porsche 911 (993) GT2 vs. Porsche 911 (993) Turbo vs. Porsche 911 (996) GT3 vs. Lamborghini Diablo vs. Nissan Skyline GT-R. Multiple cameras in each car, all professional drivers. Added bonus: The F40 driver is over-caffeinated:


----------



## orbital

+

Suzuki concept (needs to be offered in a manual trans)


----------



## StarHalo

2014 Porsche 911 Turbo; all-wheel-drive, all-wheel-steering, active front and rear wings, seven speed dual clutch transmission. Starting at $150,000.


----------



## orbital

+

I'd still rather have this 1987 AWD Twin Turbo


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Certainly not for its [email protected]@Ks. :eeew: 

~ Chance


----------



## KuanR

I like the 959 more too, especially if it's been through Canepa. If I recall reading, the current prices of 959's is enough to buy you 3+ brand new 911 Turbo's


----------



## orbital

+

The only two automobile mags I kept from the eighties,,
put one of my lights in photo to confirm


----------



## EZO

The Lamborghini 'Egoista' concept

600 HP 5.2 liter V10 single seater - It's been described as "a mashup of Speed Racer’s Mach5, a Matchbox car and Apache helicopter."


----------



## StarHalo

EZO said:


> The Lamborghini 'Egoist' concept



I don't think it's as good looking as the Veneno or as cool an idea as the Sesto Elemento; the front looks more like a logical evolution of the Ferrari Enzo than anything from Sant'Agata. The side panels just look confused, but I kinda dig the idea of cockpit roof navigation lights..

And it's missing space for a particular option, which the Sesto clearly has:


----------



## EZO

I would tend to agree with you StarHalo. 

The design is to celebrate Lamborghini's 50th anniversary and it's really pretty over the top, as if to prove a point of some kind. Naming it the Egoista isn't exactly subtle either. In fact, Walter De Silva the design chief behind the car at the VW Group is quoted as saying, “It represents hedonism taken to the extreme. It is a car without compromises.” He doesn't mention taste or anything. I kind of like the jet fighter cockpit concept and the associated heads-up display....and the roof mounted landing lights.....'er, navigation lights. Apparently, you've got to climb into the thing the same way you would enter a jet fighter, so I figure it must have an ejection seat, right? It's also got flaps (another aircraft feature) in the bodywork that flip open or closed automatically depending on driving conditions. I wonder how you're supposed to work the steering "wheel" in a really hard turn without pretzeling your arms .

edit: I notice that this car has no rear view mirrors of any kind and the headrest design would prevent any peripheral vision for the driver or looking over one's shoulder. It's obviously designed only for going forward at high speeds. Perhaps it has cameras but I don't see any screens unless that rectangle over on the right hand console is one. Come to think of it I don't even see a gear shift either.


----------



## StarHalo

EZO said:


> edit: I notice that this car has no rear view mirrors of any kind and the headrest design would prevent any peripheral vision for the driver or looking over one's shoulder. It's obviously designed only for going forward at high speeds. Perhaps it has cameras but I don't see any screens unless that rectangle over on the right hand console is one. Come to think of it I don't even see a gear shift either.



The gear buttons/toggles are on the driver's right side, the shifter paddles are there on each side just behind the wheel. The gray area above the gear toggles is one of the rearview cam displays, there's a second one on the other side. The small tower/hive-looking thing above the cam display is an HVAC vent, something the Sesto Elemento does not have. The gauge display says the anti-lock braking system has been turned off..






This second pic shows the rearview cam turned on. And now that we've found the answers to those questions, this pic brings up a whole new slew of concerns - apparently if you need to be extricated from the car, it's not only assumed, but recommended, that the canopy should be bashed in. And it's an ejection canopy. On a car that runs only on jet fuel..


----------



## AZPops

EZO said:


> The Lamborghini 'Egoista' concept
> 
> 600 HP 5.2 liter V10 single seater - It's been described as "a mashup of Speed Racer’s Mach5, a Matchbox car and Apache helicopter."





That thing looks like Speed Racer's ride!


----------



## orbital

+

Norm, if I can't click on it ect..., how would I even know it's hotlinked





anyway, the theme was_____________^


----------



## EZO

Thanks for the info StarHalo. Yes, I thought that rectangle over on the right might be a screen but it didn't seem logical for the rear view. Now that you've confirmed it though it definitely makes no sense, design wise. I mean, what's the point in featuring a fancy jet fighter style heads-up display in a high speed supercar and then making the driver look down and to the right (or left) totally away from the road to see what's behind the vehicle when a standard low tech rear view mirror would allow a quick glance while still keeping your eyes facing in the direction of travel? This seems like a classic example of form over function just for the sake of it and it kind of annoys me. And call me old fashioned but I still prefer a "floor" mounted gearbox with a shift lever.

Then again, this is a showpiece and not really meant to be practical in any way, even if one could afford to drive one and it's kind of cool for what it is. I wonder what Ferruccio Lamborghini would think of some of these new designs. Things have come a long way since his original classics.










StarHalo said:


> The gear buttons/toggles are on the driver's right side, the shifter paddles are there on each side just behind the wheel. The gray area above the gear toggles is one of the rearview cam displays, there's a second one on the other side. The small tower/hive-looking thing above the cam display is an HVAC vent, something the Sesto Elemento does not have. The gauge display says the anti-lock braking system has been turned off..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This second pic shows the rearview cam turned on. And now that we've found the answers to those questions, this pic brings up a whole new slew of concerns - apparently if you need to be extricated from the car, it's not only assumed, but recommended, that the canopy should be bashed in. And it's an ejection canopy. On a car that runs only on jet fuel..


----------



## EZO

AZPops said:


> That thing looks like Speed Racer's ride!


----------



## orbital

+

EZO, I took this picture last summer


----------



## EZO

Sweet! That glossy finish looks so deep you could go swimming in it.



orbital said:


> +
> 
> EZO, I took this picture last summer


----------



## orbital

+

yep, it's mint ~ 9.95/10

I saw it again at a vintage event just this last weekend at Road America


__________


----------



## AZPops

orbital said:


> +
> 
> EZO, I took this picture last summer




If I owned that car, ....... I'd sell it!


----------



## orbital

+

*Panamera's *do look good from the front..

shot this a couple weeks back







______________^ *GTS*


----------



## StarHalo

Didn't know there was a convertible version of my favorite hatchback, but here it is; the Lancia Delta Integrale Convertible:


----------



## AZPops

I like's this one!








:thumbsup:


----------



## EZO

Check out Discovery Science Channel's (SCI) "How It's Made" - for the premiere of *"Dream Cars"* on Thursday, June 13th @ 7pm PST and 10pm EST.
Go behind the scenes to see how Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, Rolls Royce, Maserati and Wiesmann are made.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

[email protected]@Ks like somebody got a big box of free tail lights. :shakehead

~ Chance


----------



## EZO

[email protected]@Ks like somebody has no clue about Weismann sports cars.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Sorry EZO, I didn't mean to hit a nerve. Do you own a Weismann?

~ Chance


----------



## EZO

No nerve hit Chance, but your post revealed a lack of awareness or appreciation and indeed a certain condescension towards Weismann Auto-Sport, a unique company that takes a modern approach to design while adhering to a keen reverence for classic roadster heritage and styling. The tail lights are simply part of a circular design convention seen throughout all their models, including switches, gauges and vents. The multiple tail lights are an echo of a classic look that also comply with modern safety requirements for tail light real estate. 

So,.........back to the SCI channel "Dream Cars" show, it looks like it could be pretty good and I for one am hoping to catch it.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

My comment was a joke EZO.

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

There's a Wiesmann on the first post of the thread  They're an interesting mix of very old and very new car design, which is easier to see when it's clad in some of their more interesting color options:


----------



## EZO

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> My comment was a joke EZO. Nevertheless, the tail lights are butt-ugly. I see my apology wasn't accepted,, not very classy of you to make this personal.
> 
> ~ Chance



Hey Man, don't sweat it. Let's talk about cars, OK?


----------



## EZO

StarHalo said:


> There's a Wiesmann on the first post of the thread  They're an interesting mix of very old and very new car design, which is easier to see when it's clad in some of their more interesting color options:



Yes, I've seen that photo in this thread. I think the Wiesmanns are really handsome automobiles. They remind me of the Shelby Cobra Roadster and seem to be partially inspired by them. Compare these photos, especially the rear to the ones in my previous post.


----------



## orbital

+

StarHalo Wiesmann shot looks cross between a Morgan & Panoz,, maybe a bit of Jaguar 





____^ Panoz


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

^ I see hints of RX7. 

~ C.G.


----------



## orbital

+

Yea, I was fairly sure only a couple people would catch that,, it's very clear in the doors.

nevertheless, my alltime favorite Mazda


----------



## EZO

Here's Weismann's Spyder Concept, a car for the _absolute_ "purist" road racer in the old school tradition........no doors, no windshield, no front or rear bumpers to speak of. The company describes the Spyder as the most extreme Wiesmann ever built. Apparently, the vehicle, or a version of it has not yet made it into production because of the poor economy in Europe but is still in the works. It weighs 1000 kilos and will go from 0 to 60 mph in 4 seconds, with a top speed of 180 mph!


----------



## kwak

EZO said:


> Here's Weismann's Spyder Concept, a car for the _absolute_ "purist" road racer in the old school tradition........no doors, no windshield, no front or rear bumpers to speak of. The company describes the Spyder as the most extreme Wiesmann ever built. Apparently, the vehicle, or a version of it has not yet made it into production because of the poor economy in Europe but is still in the works. It weighs 1000 kilos and will go from 0 to 60 mph in 4 seconds, with a top speed of 180 mph!



Looks like a Smart Roadster that's fell out the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down :green:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

EZO said:


> It weighs 1000 kilos and will go from 0 to 60 mph in 4 seconds, with a top speed of 180 mph!



"Yes officer,here's my license and registration. No sir, I don't think anything's funny,,...Im not smiling at you. It's Just that after driving my Weismann Spyder I can't stop smiling for an hour." "Of course you can go for a ride, hop in." Steppenwolf's Born To Be Wild playing on the radio. 60 mph in four seconds......Big smile appears on cops face.....

~ Chance


----------



## EZO

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> "Yes officer,here's my license and registration. No sir, I don't think anything's funny,,...Im not smiling at you. It's Just that after driving my Weismann Spyder I can't stop smiling for an hour." "Of course you can go for a ride, hop in." Steppenwolf's Born To Be Wild playing on the radio. 60 mph in four seconds......Big smile appears on cops face.....
> 
> ~ Chance



Zero to 60 mph in four seconds would mean it could reach its top speed of 180 mph in twelve seconds or even less once the inertia off the starting line is overcome!


----------



## orbital

+

80~140 mph times are essentially never as low as 0~60


----------



## EZO

You're probably right orbital. I guess the fastest car off the mark is the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport - hits 0-62 mph in 2.4 seconds. The progression for the Veyron SS includes 150mph at 10 seconds and 186 mph at under 15 seconds. I don't really know how long it would take the Wiesmann to hit 180. As you know, they usually only list zero to 60 mph figures. Fast enough, I guess!!

Well, here's another concept roadster, Aston Martins's CC100 Speedster, like the Wiesmann, it also does 0-60 mph in 4 seconds with a top speed of 180.......It's extremely similar in concept and general appearance to the Wiesmann Spyder.....and no windshield, but it does have "doors", sorta'.


----------



## StarHalo

Better still; take a car already renown for being lightweight, then make a version of it that's as stripped and minimal as possible:


----------



## Monocrom

Ooooo . . . An adult Go-Cart. :huh:


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> Better still; take a car already renown for being lightweight, then make a version of it that's as stripped and minimal as possible:



Nice, but for £40k i's prefer






170kg lighter and handles :twothumbs


----------



## orbital

+

*That Lotus is a {DSR} class race car and Verrrry nice.
*
There is a bit of a movement for lightweight, forced induction, small displacement prototypes doing crazy fast lap times.

Scott Tucker did a sub 2-minute lap at Road America last year & that is *really* fast. The motor is a 670cc Turbocharged Suzuki engine.
I saw him run and it simply looked smooth,,, late braking and tons of mid corner speed.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/scca-tuckers-record-setting-runoffs/


----------



## StarHalo

Speaking of minimal; you know how in cheap movies and TV series' they'll often edit in the audio of some other awesome car or a jet to get the sound for the hero car - with the Sesto, none of that is needed, you just drive it around and you get your sound effects..


----------



## orbital

__^

I knew nothing of that car, heard the engine note and said *'that's a V10'*,,, goggled it and yep it's a V10

side note::
funny story today, passed a car out in the countryside near me,, as we were passing each other I thought, 'nice front end, nice lines',,, then I notice the distinct T in the front grill
thinking to myself 'oh that's a~a~a' .... I couldn't think of the damn name

It was a Tesla S


----------



## Launch Mini

I was in Las Vegas last weekend. The highlight was heading to the Las Vegas Speedway, where you can drive one or more of their Exotic Cars on the track ( not the oval, the racetrack beside). 
I chose the Porsche Cayman R over the Ferraris, Lambos...
What a blast and a half that was. There is a pro driver with you explaining the course, when to accelerate, brake, shift etc, so it is pretty easy to get some good speed coming out of the corners.
Both myself & daughter drove the car. 
If anyone is going to Vegas, I highly recommend an outing to this place. Not sure if I can promote that business name, but a quick google search of las vegas exotic racing will get you close.


----------



## Launch Mini

EZO said:


> Zero to 60 mph in four seconds would mean it could reach its top speed of 180 mph in twelve seconds or even less once the inertia off the starting line is overcome!



There are a number of "quick" cars on the 0-60, but some take a long time to get to top speed. The torque to get you going vs the horsepower for top speed drastically affect those numbers.
Watch the Clarkson video in the Veyron and he says something like only 200HP to reach 100mph, but an extra 800 hp to get to 250mph


----------



## StarHalo

Launch Mini said:


> The highlight was heading to the Las Vegas Speedway, where you can drive one or more of their Exotic Cars on the track



I always have to pause for a minute at their ad in Car & Driver that has the big list of cars they offer, which includes the Ferrari 430 Scuderia oo:


----------



## Launch Mini

The Scuderia sounded OH SO GOOD. By far the best sounding car on the track.
The Aventador was okay sounding compared to the screaming Ferrari.
You get get to sit & play with each car in the pits, as long as the engine isn't running.
The 458 was nice to look at too.
The paddle shifters on the Ferrari did not rotate with the wheel, which I found odd.
Also, if you hit the rev limiter in the Cayman, you cannot shift gears until you stop & reset. Unlike my BMW, which will perform an automatic force a shift if you happen to hit the rev limiter.


----------



## ledmitter_nli

CARS man


----------



## Monocrom

Nice!

Love the luxury 1920s, perhaps 1930's, look. What is that? A movie prop from the film "The Great Gatsby" possibly?


----------



## ledmitter_nli

1934 Voisin-C27 Aerosport Coupe


----------



## orbital

+

To quote Juliette Lewis *"bad,, bad,, bad, bad, bad.." *:devil:








from last weekend__^


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> To quote Juliette Lewis *"bad,, bad,, bad, bad, bad.." *:devil:



But wait, there's more (technically less):


----------



## EZO

Is this car really parked on what appears to be a vast expanse of wall to wall carpeting?



StarHalo said:


>


----------



## orbital

+

couple more shots from the _Sprints_:

if you could have one of these, which would you pick?


----------



## StarHalo

EZO said:


> Is this car really parked on what appears to be a vast expanse of wall to wall carpeting?



Hard to say, it does sort of resemble it: original image



orbital said:


> if you could have one of these, which would you pick?



Not a big fan of either; the sort-of-Ferrari Dino has always had odd proportions to me, and it's merely sporty by modern measure. The Toyota is something of a historic anomaly and is essentially a much more expensive Ferrari 430. I'd want to actually drive my car, so I'd have to go with the LF-A (though I'm not looking forward to dealing with the matte finish maintenance..)


----------



## orbital

+

StarHalo,, that's not some sort-of Dino, that is the original shape car.






the other angle I took__^


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> StarHalo,, that's not some sort-of Dino, that is the original shape car.



Right, it's a Dino, a sort-of-Ferrari, the "lower cost" model. It is a classic, and will probably be more so than the Lexus, but it's hard to argue near-Ferrari performance from the 60's versus near-Ferrari performance from a couple years ago.


----------



## Burgess

Great thread, everyone !

lovecpf


Here's something I spotted today:

*New Presidential Limousine --*


http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013...ost-popular+(Internal+-+Most+Popular+Content)


----------



## StarHalo

Burgess said:


> *New Presidential Limousine --*



Im pulling for Tesla, though I wager whatever replaces the current Caddy XTS (this is it's final year) will look great with slab windows and combat run-flats..


----------



## StarHalo

And as if on cue, here's the newly-released image of the 2014 Cadillac XTS, and thus an idea of what the presidential limo will look like. The limo won't include the all-wheel-drive 410 hp twin-turbo V6 drivetrain..


----------



## Dollar Bill

kwak said:


> Nice, but for £40k i's prefer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 170kg lighter and handles :twothumbs



This is a Lotus Super Seven. I knew people who raced them back in the early 1970s. They were one of the best handling cars I ever drove, but a bit fragile in the front suspension department. I am sure they have beefed it up for this car pictured. Can't actually tell from the picture, but most were right hand drive because most race tracks had right hand turns and the driver's weight on the right side helped.

You all like the speed and power of the wonderful cars you have posted here. Me too, but now I like my 1959 Cadillac convertible. Bright red, saddle tan leather interior, beige top (on the rare occasions when it is up.) 

18 seconds in the quarter mile at 84 mph and a top speed of 130mph, one of the greatest American icons ever. 5,000 pounds of Detroit steel, 6.4 liters and 345 hp. Fins are almost 4 feet off the ground. Rides like a cloud! 

Gas mileage? Don't know, don't care. Whatever it is, it is worth it! :thumbsup:

Here is my 1959 Cadillac






My wife and our Spaniel


----------



## EZO

This is a great story for vintage car collectors and restorers, especially if you like Chevys. It's a great story even if you're not into Chevys.

In the small Midwestern town of Pierce, Nebraska, Ray and Mildred Lambrecht, now in their 90s ran a Chevrolet dealership they opened in the 1940's. They ran their Mom & Pop dealership for 50 years until 1996 when they retired and shut down the business. However, since they shut the doors on their dealership (literally) it has sat there all these years with _everything_ intact including an inventory of 500 cars of which at least 50 are *brand new, some with less than 10 miles on the odometer!* The rest are mostly trade-ins but of equal interest to collectors as they have sat there all these years virtually untouched. Everything from the original dealership remains intact; the parts books and inventory, body panels, all the service manuals, complete engines, advertising posters and promotional items, the furniture, the signage, the displays....almost everything that was in the dealership when they closed the doors; a virtual time capsule!

The Lambrecht family has made the decision to put the whole thing up for auction next September and this is why this fascinating collection is in the news recently.

While these cars are covered in dust and grime and need some detailing and elbow grease, they are, for the most part brand new vehicles in_ mint_ condition with the plastic still protecting the seats and cardboard protecting the floors. They have zero rust, the rubber gaskets are shiny and the tires are brand new, the owners manuals are in the glove box, the floor mats are still rolled up and unused and the MSRP stickers (required since 1959) are still on the windows. These cars have been kept out of the weather and out of the sunlight all this time. Most have never been driven more than a few miles, some were never even titled! Truly an amazing collection! The rest of the 500 trade-ins and personal family collection are said to be pretty amazing too and also in remarkable condition.

Here are some examples:






1963 Impala - 11 miles on the OD - never been titled





plastic still on the seats of the Impala















25 year Silver Anniversary Limited Edition 1978 Corvette with 4 original miles on the OD!










1958 Cameo pick-up truck with one mile on the OD.





Protective factory plastic still over the seat















1957 child's pedal car





The Lambrecht kids enjoying the pedal Corvette





Mom enjoying the 1953 original.





Brand new Corvair - 17 miles on the MSO










Trade-in - 1956 Belair - near mint - low miles










1959 Impala 4 door sedan


----------



## StarHalo

It shows you how historically and objectively significant these cars are to think that if it were a dealership from the early 80's, nobody would care; You want a Chevy Monza or Cadillac Cimmaron with two miles on the odometer?


----------



## EZO

StarHalo said:


> It shows you how historically and objectively significant these cars are to think that if it were a dealership from the early 80's, nobody would care; You want a Chevy Monza or Cadillac Cimmaron with two miles on the odometer?



I would tend to agree, but then again, I don't know......ask me again in about twenty or thirty years and maybe there will be a different answer. Even a Chevy Monza would likely attract a lot of interest if it had one or two original miles on it and it was 55 years old like the Chevy Cameo pick-up and some of the other vehicles in the auction.


----------



## Dollar Bill

EZO said:


> I would tend to agree, but then again, I don't know......ask me again in about twenty or thirty years and maybe there will be a different answer. Even a Chevy Monza would likely attract a lot of interest if it had one or two original miles on it and it was 55 years old like the Chevy Cameo pick-up and some of the other vehicles in the auction.



Geat post, EZO! Had not heard about this before!

The 58 Cameo - $59,000
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevrolet/cameo/1522762.html 

1963 Impala - $31,990
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevrolet/impala/1438842.html

A true "survivor" ie, untouched, could easily be worth twice these amounts.


A 1959 Cadillac Eldorado cost $7400 new - here is one at $185,000
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/cadillac/eldorado_biarritz/1532013.html


----------



## orbital

EZO said:


> This is a great story ..
> Brand new Corvair - 17 miles on the MSO



+

I'll take the Corvair, 
if anyone mentions horsepower or specs.._in any way_ ~ they're gettin' punched* HARD!*



Happy 4th anyway


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

orbital said:


> +
> 
> I'll take the Corvair,
> 
> Happy 4th anyway



I'm thinking there's a pretty interesting story.......that needs to be told. First love perhaps?

~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

I gotta be honest, some of those pics were hard to look at. Dust-covered, neglected cars ... all those years.


----------



## Dollar Bill

Monocrom said:


> I gotta be honest, some of those pics were hard to look at. Dust-covered, neglected cars ... all those years.



Yeah, I know. But now they can come out in the sun and do what they were made to do. They'll be happier, now. Their waiting is over, come September!


----------



## EZO

Monocrom said:


> I gotta be honest, some of those pics were hard to look at. Dust-covered, neglected cars ... all those years.



Well fortunately, they were benignly neglected and it's only dust. Under that dust, these cars are likely almost as pristine as they appeared in the showroom. When skilled detailers get their mits on these automobiles, they will have a field day. I would love to see them when they're done. Of course, many people spend tens of thousands of dollars going to great lengths to restore older cars but in this case it will mostly involve a hose, a bucket of soapy water, some Windex and some chrome polish. Yeah, it would have been extra cool if somebody had thrown some tarps over them many years ago but I'm sure nobody at the time was thinking of them as collectables. Way back when, they were probably thought of as unsold cars that never moved off the lot.

Monocrom, I'm sorry you found my post so upsetting. It might be best not to look at the pictures and try to focus your mind on something else.


----------



## EZO

Dollar Bill said:


> The 58 Cameo - $59,000
> http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevrolet/cameo/1522762.html



The link you cited says that only 1405 of the 58s were ever assembled, which means that ALL of them that still exist are rather rare. If the extensively restored one in Hemmings went for 59 thousand, the sky's the limit for the "brand new" one in this auction with just one mile on the OD and plastic protecting the seats. And remember, all the vehicles mentioned here including this one come with ALL of the original paperwork including the MCOs and transit documents and these cars were never even registered. Even the screw holes for the license plates are untouched!

I wonder what a limited edition 1978 Silver Anniversary Corvette with 4 miles on the OD and all the original paperwork is worth?

P.S. Dollar Bill, I love that Caddy of yours! And the paint job and color choice make it extra special!


----------



## Dollar Bill

Thank you EZO, here are two more of ours. Still trying to get the right size to fit this website

1958 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz Convertible - only 815 were ever made. Very rare car. Special Alcoa aluminum wheels, Three two barrel carbs and low ratio rear end. This old lady can pick up her skirts and move out!





Chipmunk cheeks fins





Interior






1956 Coupe DeVille - factory spotlights controllable from inside car -- in 1956, this car had the most
powerful standard production car engine in the world. 6 liters and 285 hp. 





These 1950s Cads are all about nineteen feet long -- Gasoline doors are hidden to 
better show unbroken lines






Now, I can get to some flashlight stuff!!


----------



## StarHalo

Dollar Bill said:


> 1958 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz Convertible



Man, I'd be really torn about that one; it's obviously a museum piece, but this being SoCal, I'd have to drive it just about daily. That's a beaut, though..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

^ Same here if she was mine. Having some drunk plow into her would be hart-breaking, but the sheer enjoyment of driving that beauty......I think I'd have to chance it often.

:twothumbs Dollar Bill!

~ Chance


----------



## EZO

Dollar Bill, your collection is absolutely stunning, especially the 1958 Eldorado Biarritz, of course. One again, I love the red paint job, perhaps even more so on this one. Now I get why you enjoyed my post about the Lambrecht dealership's vintage survivior Chevys.

Can't wait for fins and Dagmar bumpers to come back into style!


----------



## rioimmagina

*R: Cars, Man*

I'm not too much in american cars, but I totally love this one:










It woul be great to roll in such a vehicle


----------



## EZO

StarHalo said:


> It shows you how historically and objectively significant these cars are to think that if it were a dealership from the early 80's, nobody would care; You want a Chevy Monza or Cadillac Cimmaron with two miles on the odometer?



StarHalo, I couldn't help but think of this post of yours when I looked over the inventory of the Lambrecht auction and saw the following listing. :laughing:

Lot 141, 1980 Chevrolet Monza, (V6, four-speed manual transmission), nine miles.


There are some other remarkable vehicles on the list as well considering the mileages.

Lot K5, 1958 Chevrolet Apache ½-ton pickup (I6, four-speed manual transmission), five miles

Lot K12, 1959 Chevrolet Bel Air four-door hardtop (V8, two-speed automatic transmission), two miles

Lot ?, 1959 Chevrolet Viking 40 2-ton Heavy Duty truck, (I6, four-speed manual transmission), seven miles

Lot 82, 1959 Chevrolet Biscayne (I6, three-speed manual transmission), three miles

*And a 1969 Chevrolet SS 396 with shrink-wrapped wheel covers still in the trunk and a 427-cu.in. V-8 that’s literally never been run!*


----------



## Dollar Bill

EZO said:


> Dollar Bill, your collection is absolutely stunning, especially the 1958 Eldorado Biarritz, of course. One again, I love the red paint job, perhaps even more so on this one. Now I get why you enjoyed my post about the Lambrecht dealership's vintage survivior Chevys.
> 
> Can't wait for fins and Dagmar bumpers to come back into style!



Thank you EZO. Glad that you know Dagmars! If you notice, the 58 was the last year and these had "pasties". The 58 Eldo fins were called "chipmunk cheeks". My wife named this car "Ritzy" for Biarritz. It is a dream to drive, with the three two barrel carbs and the low ratio rear end. Moves out very well and stops pretty well with the huge 12" drum brakes. 

I had radial whitewalls made by Diamondback in SC. They vulcanize the WW onto modern radials, and they pick the ww width according to the year. All my cars have these radials. The bias ply are more period correct, and the show car "trailer queens" have them, but the radials handle better and are safer because the bias ply are usually older and out-of-date. 

I think Cadillacs look better pulling a trailer than being on one. I am restoring an old Airstream and plan to do a little traveling. Be fun to pull into a gas station and ask them, "What year is this anyway?" As though I have come from the past.

And, StarHalo, I drive one of them every sunny day. Don't take them out in the rain and they spend every night inside.

Here is a picture of our home garage. My wife decorated the lift.  We live in our own warehouse. These behemoths dwarf my 2001 Cadillac Eldorado (it gets o go out in the rain).


----------



## houstonironman

Here is an old picture of an old car I have. It's a 1960.


----------



## orbital

*Re: R: Cars, Man*



rioimmagina said:


> I'm not too much in american cars, but I totally love this one:
> ...It woul be great to roll in such a vehicle



+

Vatanen had the touch..:thumbsup:


----------



## rioimmagina

*R: Cars, Man*



orbital said:


> +
> 
> Vatanen had the touch..:thumbsup:



Oh yeah!




This very one is on sale for 100000 euros...


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: R: Cars, Man*

Caterham Se7en 620R; 310 hp on 13" wheels, and yes, that's the correct camber..


----------



## orbital

*Re: R: Cars, Man*

+

Funky, fun & fast__^

DOT tires??


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: R: Cars, Man*



orbital said:


> +
> 
> Funky, fun & fast__^
> 
> DOT tires??



Barely meeting the strict letter of the law. :thumbsup:


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: R: Cars, Man*



orbital said:


> DOT tires??



Avon ZZRs; developed exclusively in their motorsport division, but 100% road legal.


----------



## EZO

OK, so here's another post about neglected cars covered with dust, only this time they're in Dubai.

Everyone knows that the United Arab Emirates has a serious car culture, especially in the ultra wealthy financial hub of Dubai. But hard times have fallen there too as the soaring real estate market bubble burst and the financial markets have stumbled. Many foreigners and locals invested in the red hot markets and bought the latest high end sports cars to compliment their high end lifestyles. Then when the crash came, many walked away from these cars, leaving them abandoned at the airport when they left (sometimes with the keys in the ignitions and notes of apology) and in parking lots and on the streets all over the city. Apparently, they number in the thousands! There are some amazing specimens including a Ferrari Enzo, one of only four hundred manufactured (see below). Many of these cars such as Ferraris, Porsches, Range Rovers, Mercedes and even a Delorean are now being plucked from the roadside and put up for auction, often selling for a fraction of their true value. Like the Lambrecht Chevy dealership vehicles, they may be neglected and covered in dust but they are all in nearly perfect condition.


----------



## StarHalo

The good news about those cars is that they will absolutely be much less expensive than their new counterparts; the bad news is, as the proud owner of the abandoned Enzo, you must now perform an engine rebuild on a 1-of-400 Italian V12..


----------



## Launch Mini

A Red Delorean? I prefer the SS body.
What a sad sight to see those beauties neglected. However, if any of you saw my car right now, you would think it were neglected too. Needs a wash badly


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Judicious use of the CPF banner EZO. :thumbsup: 

Btw, I have room in my garage for the Mercedes. 

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

+

EZO, you find the most unusual stuff

those pics are like a cross between oxymorons & drug runners dumping their bales in the ocean

or

the next Sci-fi movie

or

:thumbsdow:shakehead


>>> Add: StarHalo finds really interesting stuff too


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Just one of the seven selectable shades of ambient lighting in the all-new S-Class, in this case inspired by Toronto's CN Tower in the background. 

Chance wants one. oo:


----------



## EZO

Launch Mini said:


> A Red Delorean? I prefer the SS body.
> What a sad sight to see those beauties neglected. However, if any of you saw my car right now, you would think it were neglected too. Needs a wash badly



I don't believe anything other than SS Deloreans ever left the factory. Someone must have had this one painted. I agree, the SS is much nicer.


----------



## Monocrom

Are we sure that's paint. Maybe just a horribly thick layer of dust.


----------



## orbital

+

Just to throw this out there ~~~ 1000HP Lancia Integrale


----------



## EZO

The Anderson Carriage Company founded by William C Anderson built carriages and buggies beginning in 1884. In 1907 they produced their first electric automobile called the Detroit Electric and they changed their name to the Anderson Electric Car Company in 1911. In 1920 the name was changed again, this time to The Detroit Electric Car Company. The car ran on a lead-acid battery and for an additional price ($600.00!) one could purchase an Edison nickel-iron battery. The cars were advertised to go 80 miles (130km) on a single charge but during one test a Detroit Electric ran 211.3 miles (340.1 km) on a single charge. Top speed was 20 miles per hour which was considered quite adequate for city driving in those days.

The cars were very popular with women drivers and physicians who desired the dependable and immediate start without the physically demanding hand cranking of the engine that was required with early internal combustion engine autos. (Interesting note: The expression that someone is "cranky" comes from trying to start a crank car without much success. When it would not start it was being cranky!) Peak production was almost 2000 cars in 1910. By 1912, there were numerous American electric vehicle manufacturers, with Detroit Electric both the market leader and the most prolific, going on to produce 13,000 cars, an electric vehicle world record for the twentieth century. Later in the decade the cars were in demand because of the high price of gasoline due to World War I. However, as the internal combustion engine became more refined and more common, sales declined. The invention of the electric starter also dealt a blow to early electric cars like the Detroit Electric and the final blow to the company came about due to the stock market crash of 1929. They eventually declared bankruptcy, although the firm was acquired and continued to produce cars under special order until the last Detroit Electric rolled off the line in 1939.

In its day, the machine was a technological marvel and was also the very first production automobile to feature curved glass as a component of the windshield. While in 2012 Toyota began advertising "regenerative braking", the Detroit Electric started using that in 1915. Notable people who owned Detroit Electrics cars included Thomas Edison, Mamie Eisenhower, John D. Rockefeller and Clara Ford, the wife of Henry Ford.



















A Detroit Electric charging.





The motivation for this post is that an interesting thing has happened regarding The Detroit Electric Car Company. The brand was revived in 2008 by Albert Lamm, former Group CEO of the Lotus Engineering Group and Executive Director of Lotus Cars of England with the goal of producing high performance, technologically advanced pure electric vehicles. In March 2013, Detroit Electric announced the establishment of its corporate headquarters on the 18th floor of the iconic Fisher Building, located in downtown Detroit. Detroit Electric's first product, a high performance roadster, the SP:01 is scheduled to go on sale in the United States next month, August 2013. It is an interesting beast, somewhat similar to the original Tesla roadster. Like the Tesla Roadster, it will be built on a Lotus Elise aluminum chassis with a carbon fiber body. It's powered by a 150 kW (201 bhp) electric motor mounted behind the passenger cabin that delivers 225 N·m (166 lb-ft) of torque to the rear wheels via a four-speed manual transmission, with a 5th gear option or 2 speed auto. Top speed is 155 mph (249 km/h) and its time from 0 to 60 mph (0 to 100 kph) is 3.7 seconds. The car will have a 37 kWh lithium-polymer battery pack capable of delivering a range of 180 mi (290 km) and user adjustable regenerative braking. A 7.7 kWh home charging unit will fully charge the car in 4.3 hours, a charging through a standard 13A power source will take 8 hours. The vehicle features a smart-phone command control system. The car has a unique bi-directional home charging and power back-up unit patented by Detroit Electric that is called the "360 Powerback". It can detect a failure in the grid and provide the option to the user via 'SAMI' (Smartphone Application Managed Info) and the GSM network to instruct the vehicle to restore power to the home using its stored energy. The first SP:01 prototypes are being assembled in Europe but the company intends to honor it's heritage by producing the commercial version at the Detroit Electric production site in Wayne, Michigan.Two other high performance models are scheduled for production before the end of 2014. More here at the Detroit Electric website.
















prototype mock-up


----------



## Monocrom

Very interesting. One of the things that amazes me is that $600 option back then. Clearly, these first electric automobiles were technological toys for the very rich. The new prototype though looks too much like an old Lotus.


----------



## StarHalo

Over a third of all cars were electric in that era, it wasn't until roughly the WWI era that gas took over. And the Elise body is favored by electric car folk because of how lightweight it is - if DE ever gets a running concept off the ground, it'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against the similar Tesla Roadster.


----------



## EZO

Monocrom said:


> Very interesting. One of the things that amazes me is that $600 option back then. Clearly, these first electric automobiles were technological toys for the very rich. The new prototype though looks too much like an old Lotus.



Since the CEO of Detroit Electric, Albert Lamm, is one of the former top executives from Lotus and the car is built on a Lotus chassis, along with the fact that many of the engineers and designers at Detroit Electric are also Lotus alumni, it shouldn't be too surprising that the new roadster echoes earlier Lotus designs like the Exige and the Elise. Additionally, the car is said to offer amazing handling characteristics, also a direct result of its Lotus heritage. One might even think of the Detroit Electric SP:01 Roadster as an "electric Lotus". I think they are probably focusing on the technology under the hood rather than trying to come up with an unusual exotic looking design. It could even be a marketing decision to stick with a vaguely familiar looking sports car design with a traditional four on the floor transmission housing a high tech, state of the art electric power train.

Yeah, six hundred dollars was an awful lot of money in those days, especially just for an optional battery. Perhaps the first electric automobiles were indeed technological toys for the very rich but with a base price of $109,000.00 for the Tesla Roadster and around $135,000.00 for the forthcoming Detroit Electric SP:01 you could say that electric automobiles are still technological toys for the very rich.

Edit: According to an online US dollar inflation calculator, $600.00 spent in 1913 (the year the Federal Reserve was founded) would cost $14,117.88 in 2013.


----------



## EZO

StarHalo said:


> Over a third of all cars were electric in that era, it wasn't until roughly the WWI era that gas took over. And the Elise body is favored by electric car folk because of how lightweight it is - if DE ever gets a running concept off the ground, it'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against the similar Tesla Roadster.




SH, It sounds like you didn't read my post very thoroughly, when you say, "if DE ever gets a running concept off the ground". The Detroit Electric SP:01 is in production and they are going on sale in target US markets in August!...It is not a concept car. 

Also, as I mentioned in my post, electric vehicles became _more_ popular during WW I because of the high price of gasoline during the war. It was only after the war that internal combustion engines started to dominate the market.


----------



## Monocrom

EZO said:


> Edit: According to an online US dollar inflation calculator, $600.00 spent in 1913 (the year the Federal Reserve was founded) would cost $14,117.88 in 2013.



Makes a Rolex Daytona look downright affordable.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

We came across this on our way into the kite store at Ocean Shores. Seemed kind of strange to see it at the beach. Sorry for the overexposed cell phone picture. 

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Seemed kind of strange to see it at the beach.



That's the place to see sports cars; what better place to drive than twisty coastal roads..


----------



## CMAG

StarHalo said:


> That's the place to see sports cars; what better place to drive than twisty coastal roads..


Twisty roads try I 70 thru Glenwood canyon Just east of Glenwood Springs CO


----------



## orbital

CMAG said:


> Twisty roads try I 70 thru Glenwood canyon Just east of Glenwood Springs CO



___^

Drove that many times,, one of the very best roads anywhere
once I was having alternator problems in my Nissan 'King Cab' and_ stalled out_ in one of those tunnels

Surprising who will stop & help you out.:thumbsup:


----------



## CMAG

^^ Bummer, watch out for that black ice.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> That's the place to see sports cars;



Not at Ocean Shores, there's probably a 400 to 1 ratio of four wheel drive trucks & suv's to sports cars.

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

+

_*Snap , Snap*_ (from this weekend)


























______________________________________________________________________^^^also: that shade of white is the best I'v seen in an auto


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> _*Snap , Snap*_ (from this weekend)



Quality! I love how the 458 looks modestly lowered and with different wheels, I have a feeling the Scuderia version will be quite the hellion. And the white California might have the Triplo Strato option; three layers of paint, an extra $18,000. Not sure if they offer it with white though..


----------



## orbital

^

*The engine shot is from an Enzo*

I could have taken about 12000 more photos, but I was busy watching the racing
Can-Am
70s' Grand Prix
F5000
Big Bore cars
Sports Racers
endless 911s'
Tons of different GT's
Modern F1
Prototypes
ect..
ect..


----------



## orbital

+

The big _maybe_ w/ Ford





__________^ are those vintage style *knock offs *on the wheels,, gotta like that


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> The big _maybe_ w/ Ford



Eh, we go through this every few years..


----------



## orbital

_yea,, but that one's fugly ____^

I took this photo just over 4 years ago, the entrance to a fantastic Ford exhibit..
inside were several original GT40s', including actual LeMans winning ones from the 60's


----------



## orbital

+

It's Ferrari Club of America 50th Anniversary at R.A. _(starting today it seems_)
Had to run into Elkhart for something & spotted this....











took these about 1/2 hour ago_____^

btw, there were a couple 512s' parked out on the street like it was nothing


----------



## StarHalo

Heck yeah, make it rain Scuderias! And the "GTO stripe" paint option is definitely my fave, though it stands out best in red-on-white; if I owned a Ferrari I would seriously consider giving it that paint scheme, regardless of what model it was..


----------



## tjswarbrick

Awesome.

I came home two nights ago and saw a round taillight sticking out from in front of my neighbor's Lexus.
She had a friend over; it was a 458. Brand new with dealer plates.
Red over tan, as God intended.
No pics - I was talking on the phone, when I heard it fire up to leave.
Walked outside for a listen.
Actually didn't sound as good pulling away as my recollection of the manual-tranny smaller V-8 Ferraris of years past.
Still cool, and pretty rare.


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


>



I think I'm in love! :huh:


----------



## StarHalo

StarHalo said:


> the "GTO stripe" paint option is definitely my fave, though it stands out best in red-on-white;


----------



## orbital

+

shot 8/1/13





























I almost _wizzed _myself photoing the 512BB LM sleds :devil:


----------



## orbital

_+

..a few more













_


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> _..a few more_



Interesting to note that the Scud's F1-only paint actually does stand out even in photographs..


----------



## StarHalo

That would be the fender vent on a Subaru BRZ - things are about to get very interesting..


----------



## orbital

+

*Just'*ified few more





















_________ ^ Short exhaust tubing with a 8-into-1 sounds wicked!!


----------



## StarHalo

It was inevitable he'd get to drive it early..


----------



## orbital

^

Fire-engine green calipers ,, the default Cali color


----------



## tjswarbrick

StarHalo said:


> It was inevitable he'd get to drive it early..



918 Spyder?
A friend was at Pebble this weekend and got a shot of that car, but had no idea what it was.
I thought the wheelcaps looked like Porsche on his iPhone, but he didn't think it was.
I'll need to double-check the brake calipers...


----------



## StarHalo

The new Scuderia is Speciale; just fill the interior wheel space with brake rotor:






Ferrari is claiming ~120 mph in ~9 seconds, which would give it the same straight-line performance as the all-wheel-drive Lambo Aventador:


----------



## jabe1

tjswarbrick said:


> 918 Spyder?
> A friend was at Pebble this weekend and got a shot of that car, but had no idea what it was.
> I thought the wheelcaps looked like Porsche on his iPhone, but he didn't think it was.
> I'll need to double-check the brake calipers...



918 Spyder it is. Slightly different from the prototype. I liked the side exhaust ports...


----------



## orbital

+

Both the Speciale & 918 have more braking power than its tires can give.

_put some hot Michelin __ slicks on both and let it fly.._


----------



## StarHalo

Forgot to mention: Last week while driving home on the freeway, I was passed by a fabric-wrapped "spy car", which is not all that unusual in the LA area, but this one had the entire area from the beltline down completely covered, only the windows/canopy was exposed. Looked like a Ford product, with a canopy not too different from the new Ford Fusion, but a two door - I'm still wondering if it was the new Mustang..


----------



## StarHalo

Caterham AeroSeven, first deliveries will be fall of 2014. The usual 240 hp Ford Duratec 2.0, maybe with a little extra weight from body panels but a whole lot more aero..


----------



## StarHalo

Yes/no? Chevrolet Silverado Black Ops concept; modular bed system and light bar included:


----------



## Monocrom

No ... Just no.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> No ... Just no.



It strikes me as an actual "utility" vehicle, which you'd think more truck guys would go for. Maybe if it were the size of a Mazda B series..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> It strikes me as an actual "utility" vehicle, which you'd think more truck guys would go for. Maybe if it were the size of a Mazda B series..



Like a few models from certain flashlight brands ... That truck is just trying too hard to be "tactical," and ends being "tacti-cool" instead.


----------



## orbital

+

A friend of my brother is a big Porsche guy,, 
during a Porsche event at Road America, he was asked by a top _Porsche of North America_ suit if he wanted one of these,,
at first he said No because he was getting out of club racing ect.

A week or two went by & word came down of the verrrry limited number of 2014 GT3s' w/ the paddle shift coming to America,
he changed his mind

He's getting a white 2014 GT3 w/the paddle shift to compliment his mint '73 and others....





______________ also has 4-wheel steering __^


----------



## tjswarbrick

Love the GT3. Love.


----------



## Yorgi

orbital said:


> ...A week or two went by & word came down of the verrrry limited number of 2014 GT3s' w/ the paddle shift coming to America,
> he changed his mind....


The manual transmission is no longer available on the GT3 if you can believe it, so ALL 2014 GT3s will come with dual-clutch PDK (paddle shifters). Maybe they just meant the US is not getting many 2014 GT3s period. 

:bow: >> GT3


----------



## orbital

^

Yes, that's it exactly.
I knew my wording was off, but just didn't feel like changing it.
When _Mr. J_ told me of the PDK being the only option, I gave a disbelieving_'what'_,, not knowing quite yet he had one coming.

The delivery numbers stated for the '14 GT3 will make it one of the rarest,
I guess we'll see.

Also, the price difference between the GT3 and the RS will be much higher than in years past.
This has the potential to keep resale numbers higher.


----------



## kwak

orbital said:


> +
> 
> A friend of my brother is a big Porsche guy,,
> during a Porsche event at Road America, he was asked by a top _Porsche of North America_ suit if he wanted one of these,,
> at first he said No because he was getting out of club racing ect.
> 
> A week or two went by & word came down of the verrrry limited number of 2014 GT3s' w/ the paddle shift coming to America,
> he changed his mind
> 
> He's getting a white 2014 GT3 w/the paddle shift to compliment his mint '73 and others....



Something must have been lost in translation somewhere, as the GT3 is not a limited edition you can order one no problem, as long as you have the money.

It doesn't even need to be a USA model as you can order one for European pick up.


----------



## StarHalo

Lambo Veneno Roadster, because the original wasn't radical enough:


----------



## StarHalo

The Caterham 160; 79 hp Suzuki three-cylinder, 1,080 lbs, $24,183.


----------



## gswitter

StarHalo said:


> The Caterham 160; 79 hp Suzuki three-cylinder, 1,080 lbs, $24,183.



Looks like they raided the local Pick & Pull for the wheels.


----------



## orbital

+

Like that Caterham 160 alot,,, looks old school British

(bolt-on forced induction & remap maybe)


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> (bolt-on forced induction & remap maybe)



Ford Ecoboost 1.0 or Hayabusa..


----------



## tjswarbrick

The 175 has a 175HP 2.0 Duratec. Shouldn't they have called the 3-banger an 80?
I like how some describe the $24,000 version (14,995 British pounds) a "box of parts."


----------



## StarHalo

Wazuma V8F; Ferrari V8, BMW M3 sequential gearbox, $250K. There's also STi and V12 versions..


----------



## StarHalo

Yes/no? 1975 Porsche 911, slantnose conversion, engine from a Toyota Echo, 107 HP. There would be no sport driving involved, but you could be seen in it all day every day for years without worry..


----------



## Monocrom

Oh Hell no! :thumbsdow


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

*Poser
*
noun

1. Somene who pretends to be someone he/she isn't. 
2. Someone who tries to fit in but with exaggeration. 
3. Someone who would drive this car:









~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

More so the person than the car. After all, the car didn't shove a Toyota Echo engine into itself.


----------



## StarHalo

I dunno, I've thought for a long time that a near ideal car would be along the lines of a Jaguar E-Type or a Ferrari 250 California with a Honda Civic drivetrain; change the oil yourself in a few minutes [not physically possible with a stock 911], any engine part would be a few bucks at any parts store around you, etc. You could just drive it as you would any daily driver, run errands, go cross-country..


----------



## kwak

StarHalo said:


> I dunno, I've thought for a long time that a near ideal car would be along the lines of a Jaguar E-Type or a Ferrari 250 California with a Honda Civic drivetrain; change the oil yourself in a few minutes [not physically possible with a stock 911], any engine part would be a few bucks at any parts store around you, etc. You could just drive it as you would any daily driver, run errands, go cross-country..



Can't see the point of a 911 without the 911 motor, with anything else it's just a fundamentally flawed design.

Who told you that you couldn't change the oil easily on a 911?
My 911 was easier and quicker to change the oil than my miata


----------



## tjswarbrick

No.

If you want a gorgeous driver's car with a Honda drivetrain, just pick up an S2000.
If you want *any* car over about 800lbs with an Echo engine, well, I can't help you.


----------



## kwak

tjswarbrick said:


> No.
> 
> If you want a gorgeous driver's car with a Honda drivetrain, just pick up an S2000.



:green:

If you want a torqueless engine that NEEDS to be kept in exactly the right gear, buy a CTR, at least it handles well 


Should say the MKII S2K did handle better than the MKI, still a early 911 is easier to catch when the rear steps out though.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Monocrom said:


> More so the person than the car. After all, the car didn't shove a Toyota Echo engine into itself.



OK, had to laugh out loud when I read the word _shove. _:laughing: The imagery is just too funny to be denied. :thumbsup:

~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> I dunno, I've thought for a long time that a near ideal car would be along the lines of a Jaguar E-Type or a Ferrari 250 California with a Honda Civic drivetrain; change the oil yourself in a few minutes [not physically possible with a stock 911], any engine part would be a few bucks at any parts store around you, etc. You could just drive it as you would any daily driver, run errands, go cross-country..



But, it's the performance that makes such cars iconic. It's not their shells. Sure, the looks and styling do account for some of what makes those cars iconic. But you put a little reliable Honda or Toyota engine in one of them, and you ruin the soul of the thing. You take away that which makes it desirable in the first place. You basically end up neutering it.

A Ferrari, for example, is supposed to be vulgar. You're not supposed to tame it into something sensible and reliable. Pick your favorite Hollywood Femme Fatale. Now imagine you get invited over to her house. Plus, you get to visit her back when she was absolutely in her prime. You ring the doorbell, she opens it, it's definitely her! ... And she's standing there in a frompy outfit wearing an apron and a pair of sensible shoes. No make-up. Hair isn't done. She smiles, tells you to relax and that she has something special for you. She goes into the kitchen, comes back with a slice of apple pie and a glass of milk for you. Then she pulls out a scrapbook with pictures of her nieces and nephews during last year's Christmas celebration!!

How excited would you be? How happy would you be to be there?? How soon would you try to sneak out?!

No one wants that! It's just wrong. So horribly *wrong!*

Such cars deserve to be what they are ... Grin-inducing vixens that pin you to the seat! They should turn you on when you turn them _on. _Not reliably and sensibly take you front point A to point B. They should do what a Hollywood Femme Fatale can do during her prime ... Take you on a thrill ride you'll never forget! Not kindly drop you off at the corner store so you can pick up some milk. Such cars are about one thing only ... Passion! 

If you're not grinning like a homicidal lunatic when your driving one of those cars ... Something is terribly wrong! 

You don't get "passion" from a little fuel-sipping Honda engine that just sits there and quietly sips fuel like a kindly old grand-mother sits and sips her tea ... Then offers you a slice of apple pie and a glass of milk while reaching for her scrapbook.

Know what I mean?


----------



## StarHalo

kwak said:


> Who told you that you couldn't change the oil easily on a 911?



Maybe it's just the 993, but when step one is "Remove right rear wheel," that would be the opposite of easy..



Monocrom said:


> Know what I mean?



I do, but part of what makes these cars so unrealistic to own is the added maintenance and babying they'll need after one is in your driveway; even if an E-Type were offered for the same price as the used Civic, the number of people who could actually afford to own it over time would remain virtually unchanged, and no one would be buying it to try to fulfill the role of the Honda. But what if there were no added maintenance cost, and it could take over the Honda's job without issue? A vintage sports car that would start the first time every time today and ten years from now, you can at any time decide to drive all over the country and you won't need to bring extra parts or arrange alternate transportation, etc. It's the best of both worlds, waving to passers-by in your museum piece every day for years..


----------



## Launch Mini

Maybe with the V6 from an Accord. Give a little more oomph and retain reliability.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> I do, but part of what makes these cars so unrealistic to own is the added maintenance and babying they'll need after one is in your driveway; even if an E-Type were offered for the same price as the used Civic, the number of people who could actually afford to own it over time would remain virtually unchanged, and no one would be buying it to try to fulfill the role of the Honda. But what if there were no added maintenance cost, and it could take over the Honda's job without issue? A vintage sports car that would start the first time every time today and ten years from now, you can at any time decide to drive all over the country and you won't need to bring extra parts or arrange alternate transportation, etc. It's the best of both worlds, waving to passers-by in your museum piece every day for years..




Reminds me of an old saying: _You can't have your cake and eat it too. 

~ Chance_


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> I do, but part of what makes these cars so unrealistic to own is the added maintenance and babying they'll need after one is in your driveway; even if an E-Type were offered for the same price as the used Civic, the number of people who could actually afford to own it over time would remain virtually unchanged, and no one would be buying it to try to fulfill the role of the Honda. But what if there were no added maintenance cost, and it could take over the Honda's job without issue? A vintage sports car that would start the first time every time today and ten years from now, you can at any time decide to drive all over the country and you won't need to bring extra parts or arrange alternate transportation, etc. It's the best of both worlds, waving to passers-by in your museum piece every day for years..



I understand what you're saying. I do. But that very fickleness and unreliability is part of their character. It's like owning a pet lion. All your friends stop by to see that majestic beast stand proudly and roar at them. Instead, all they get is a tired lion with no pride, just sits there. Not even tries to roar. On the outside it's a lion. On the inside, what makes it truly special is missing. If an E-Type is going to be shown as simply a museum piece, better to visit it standing still in an automotive museum.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> All your friends stop by to see that majestic beast stand proudly and roar at them. Instead, all they get is a tired lion with no pride, just sits there.



It sounds like you're most concerned with the loss of horsepower, so what if we took a page from LaunchMini's playbook and used the Accord V6; the same ~265 HP as the original, but lighter and lower, so there'd actually be a slight performance advantage there (a much larger advantage would come from the transmission, so the finished product would be significantly quicker/faster than stock..)


----------



## Monocrom

It's still going to be an issue. Such incredible cars such as the E-Type become rarer and rarer as the years tick away. If you have a genuine one that's been restored fully on the outside, it's still hard for me to wrap my head around just putting in a non-performance engine into it.


----------



## mvyrmnd

I'm 100% with Monocrom here. You simply can't ruin a classic car like that with the soulless chunk of alloy from a Toyota or Honda.

If you want an E-type that's modern and reliable you still have to leave its soul intact.

http://www.jaguarspeedster.com/

THIS is the way to modernise a classic car!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Decisions.....decisions? I just can't make up my mind. 

Do I want this one?
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/854/9px3.jpg

Or this one? oo:
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/6282/4npe.jpg

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

+

Took this a couple years ago at a Vintage event,, an unusual number of people were checking it out.






I'm a sucker for strait-6 engines


----------



## StarHalo

Alright then, guess it's just me with the Echo Porsche, parked next to the Rat Porsche..

Meanwhile, in other Porsche news, the production 918 officially goes 0-124 mph in 7.4 seconds and gets 78 mpg, now there's a drivetrain..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> Alright then, guess it's just me with the Echo Porsche, parked next to the Rat Porsche.



StarHalo,

Is that your Echo Porsche? If so, I would like to see a picture of the motor.  Who did the install?

What's a Rat Porsche?

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Is that your Echo Porsche? If so, I would like to see a picture of the motor.  Who did the install?
> 
> What's a Rat Porsche?



Not mine, the guy who threw it together is selling it for $30K. The motor takes up so much less space than the flat-6 that there's quite a bit of asphalt visible on each side of the engine, it'd be ridiculously easy to service..






And the Rat Porsche is the other Porsche Monocrom liked to josh me for wanting to own, 'cause I said I'd drive it as-is:


----------



## Monocrom

Let's be honest, it's not exactly street-legal. LOL !


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

If were going to be really honest,, StarHalo isn't going to be driving it street legally anyway. ZOOM ZOOM! Probably more like he stole it. Perhaps with two GoPros, one facing each direction so we can enjoy the ride and the cops chasing him. BadBoy, BadBoy, watcha gunna do?

~ Chance


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> ......the guy who threw it together is selling it for $30K.



:hahaha:$30,000 dollars?! Get the [email protected]# out of here! :lolsign:


~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

A Porsche I will gladly accept in dead stock form:


----------



## Monocrom

LOL ... We all would!


----------



## orbital

^ Porsche 

Couple of weeks ago I helped_ Mr. J_ load his '73 on trailer & asked the number of '14 PDK GT3s' coming to the US,, 
he said 600.

that's about half the allocation to US compared to all the previous model GT3s'

btw:: within walking distance from me there have been 6 GT3s'

{1} 996
{2} 997
{2} RS 4.0 (you heard me correct on that,, *two*)
{1} 991 PDK ~ delivered next spring

I personally have been in both the 997 models

*never did I say the GT3 was a limited edition car*


___________________


----------



## StarHalo

SEMA show rat enjoyment: The Fuller Double Down; 426 c.i. crate motor pushing 900 hp through all four wheels, one rod for drag AND circle track AND road course AND salt flats..


----------



## tjswarbrick

StarHalo said:


> SEMA show rat enjoyment: The Fuller Double Down; 426 c.i. crate motor pushing 900 hp through all four wheels, one rod for drag AND circle track AND road course AND salt flats..



Awesome. The original Godzilla? 
(New GT-R NISMO even has special NISMO tires!)


----------



## StarHalo

tjswarbrick said:


> Awesome. The original Godzilla?



It's new, they're technically not even finished building it (there's no floorboard in the cabin, and the front axle driveshaft is directly under the driver's feet; mind your laces..)


----------



## orbital

+

With the comforting aroma of woodsmoke in the air,,
took this photo a couple miles from me this morning






*Happy Thanksgiving *


----------



## StarHalo

2015 Ford Mustang; optional Ecoboost 300hp turbo four..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Must say, "The tail on that pony caught me by surprise!" oo:

~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> 2015 Ford Mustang; optional Ecoboost 300hp turbo four..



I just want to know if there's a V8 option.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> I just want to know if there's a V8 option.



Oh but you forgot the other Mustang-defining trait - there will be no live rear axle option..


----------



## Monocrom

True, but that's a minor thing compared to the heart of that iconic ride. If Ford decided to put in a pace-maker, they can go to Hell.


----------



## StarHalo

Good ol' Classic Coke 5.0, as always. And one more option:


----------



## orbital

+ see below,,,,oops


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


>



^

Dig the raptop

agree w/ crom
needs a classic _sugar sweetened Coke_* under the hood & standard tranny for sure





*302


----------



## StarHalo

Just keep in mind that the 4-cyl will be making the same HP as the 6-cyl, and Ecoboost engines are renown for being physically small and lightweight..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

It kind of reminds me of an M3,, all grown up. And yes, I'd love to own one. :thumbsup:

~ C.G.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Just keep in mind that the 4-cyl will be making the same HP as the 6-cyl, and Ecoboost engines are renown for being physically small and lightweight..



Don't take this the wrong way ... I only care about the V8 engine options.


----------



## orbital

+

All Ford needs to do is put the battery in the trunk & make a _particularity _light hood.
Those two small things will effectively take a good 100lbs. off the front tires for better weight distribution balance w/ the V8

Weight distribution is a very important thing.


----------



## Launch Mini

If you could have a V8 with the Eco boost, that would be sweet.

IMO the eco boost is similar to what BMW has done on the Twin Turbo 3.0 or even the new 2.0 Turbo. Squeezing a lot of torque & HP from a smaller displacement.
I had a 135 with the Dinan Stage 11. That thing was insane. 421 ft/torque at 1400rpm. AND it got decent gas mileage, until you unleashed all the fun with your right foot.


----------



## kwak

orbital said:


> +
> 
> All Ford needs to do is put the battery in the trunk & make a _particularity _light hood.
> Those two small things will effectively take a good 100lbs. off the front tires for better weight distribution balance w/ the V8
> 
> Weight distribution is a very important thing.



What they going to save 15kg by using a light weight bonnet, even less with moving the battery, not going to make a blind bit of difference to a car that weighs over 1600kg

Weight distribution means absolutely nothing unless the fundamental design of the car is right.

On a car with a live rear axle moving a few lbs rearwards is like trying to empty the Atlantic ocean with a cup = pointless


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

One wonders if the same points couldn't be made somewhat less antagonistically. 

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

+

funny,, the_ troll guy _quotes me alot.:ironic:

*small setup changes can make a small difference,, a difference is a difference *



___________________


----------



## kwak

orbital said:


> +
> 
> funny,, the_ troll guy _quotes me alot.:ironic:
> 
> *small setup changes can make a small difference,, a difference is a difference *
> 
> 
> 
> ___________________









:wave:

Point is, people don't buy a 1600kg live rear axle car because of how it handles, they buy it cause they like the looks and the power output.
So 99.9% of drivers wouldn't notice a 10kg saving even on something like a Elise, so on a car like this it'd be very very silly for Ford to invest all that time and money into moving the battery and fitting a lighter bonnet when most owners couldn't notice or care less.


----------



## kwak

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> One wonders if the same points couldn't be made somewhat less antagonistically.
> 
> ~ Chance



Sorry Chauncey, it's just my BS sensor goes into over drive when folks offer opinions they know nothing about.


----------



## orbital

+

Goes back to StarHalo taking about the 2.0 Turbo in the Stang.
The reason the ATS turbo gets great reviews is from it balance.

Whenever you fractionally close the gap to 50/50 weight ,, the car will handle inherently better, every little bit makes a difference.
To say it doesn't matter is nonsense,, tell that to any GT racing team it doesn't matter.

Taking 100~150lbs. off the front of a Mustang is *not* going in the wrong balance direction..

Also, not taking about stoplight burnout buyers here.


----------



## kwak

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Goes back to StarHalo taking about the 2.0 Turbo in the Stang.
> The reason the ATS turbo gets great reviews is from it balance.
> 
> Whenever you fractionally close the gap to 50/50 weight ,, the car will handle inherently better, every little bit makes a difference.
> To say it doesn't matter is nonsense,, tell that to any GT racing team it doesn't matter.
> 
> Taking 100~150lbs. off the front of a Mustang is *not* going in the wrong balance direction..
> 
> Also, not taking about stoplight burnout buyers here.



Problem with the 50/50argument is some of the best handling driver focussed cars are nowhere near that.
Both the Elise and 911 are around 60/40 both are regularly in the top for good handling cars
Ferrari claimed 50/50 for the F40, but in reality it's more 60/40
R8 another car renowned for it's delicate handling again closer to 60/40 than 50/50
458 42/58
Nissan GTR full of fluids is closer to 60/40 than 50/50

The list goes on and on and on
Many times manufacturers will spout how their cars have a perfect 50/50 weight balance, but in reality with the car full of fluids, petrol and a driver it turns out it's nothing like.
My Miata is a prime example, with me in the car it's closer to 60/40 than the much advertised 50/50
Even F1 cars will have more weight to the rear on most tracks as it offers a bit more traction.

A 50/50 balance doesn't mean anything in reality it's something that's been dreamed up by advertising departments and internet know it alls.

With regards to the bonnet, what does a Mustang bonnet weight 40lbs?
What can you realistically remove 20lbs?
My battery came in around 35lbs.
So best case scenario is your going to remove 20lbs from the front (also have the weight of the extra wiring to add remember) and move 35lbs backwards.

There is absolutely no way anyone would notice a 55lb weight reduction from the front of a Mustang for street driving.
If they're racing then obviously they'll modify the car so it really doesn't matter.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

I'd be happy to know half of what you guys do about cars. 

Hope you have a great weekend,

~ Chance


----------



## kwak

Just reread my posts and they did come out a lot stronger and confrontational, not really what i intended, sorry.

My opinion does still stand though that 50/50 weight distribution is something dreamed up by marketing rather than the engineering department.


----------



## orbital

+

If a new Porsche engineer proposed a design for the 911 battery to be back in the motor compartment,
they would be promptly fired that day. That day!
Moreover, have zero chance in getting an engineering job in Germany.


_________________


----------



## kwak

orbital said:


> +
> 
> If a new Porsche engineer proposed a design for the 911 battery to be back in the motor compartment,
> they would be promptly fired that day. That day!
> Moreover, have zero chance in getting an engineering job in Germany.
> 
> 
> _________________



Don't really understand the point you are trying to put across orbital, could you please explain?


----------



## tjswarbrick

Diggin' the new 'Stang. Maybe I should wait a year and get a 2016 to go with my '66. Have to be a V8. Looks like they're offering the EcoBoost 4 in the states, but it was primarily offered so the Mustang could become a "World Car" and sold in Europe and Asia. Which, to me, says it should have been a 2.0. But I surely understand the (checkered) history of the 2.3 and desire for 300HP.

Anywho, how come nobody pointed out that it's not going to be Live Axle? All the release literature points to IRS. And they used M3 and 911 as Benchmarks!?!
Sign me up!

(Not feelin' the 'vert though. Maybe it's just the angle of the shot. Looks very Audi, other than the tail.)


----------



## StarHalo

I mentioned the independent suspension on the last page; the question now is how close the dead stock GT model will be to the legendary Boss 302 model on the track. There's a very real possibility that the ~$35k pony car available at all your local dealers will run nose-to-nose with the ~$120k BMW M6..


----------



## orbital

+

_Keeping w/ the Trans-Am racing theme_...

7 Liter dry sump, 7000 redline_* Z/28*_ ripper
Interesting to read how they lightened it up.





Word is 1500 units per year


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

orbital said:


> +
> 
> _Keeping w/ the Trans-Am racing theme_...
> 
> 7 Liter dry sump, 7000 redline_* Z/28*_ ripper
> *Interesting to read how they lightened it up. *



Do tell. 

~Chance


----------



## Monocrom

I'm guessing no backseat, no radio, no A/C, etc.


----------



## orbital

+

I usually don't copy/paste,,, 

_from *caranddriver*

'The LS7* is about 90 pounds lighter than the supercharged LSA in the ZL1, and Chevrolet cut mass everywhere it could. The 19-inch wheels and tires save 42 pounds. The carbon-ceramic brakes drop 28. Cutting A/C (it can be optionally restored) saves another 20. The engineers had hoped to leave out the audio system, but keeping the radio and one door speaker was necessary to bleat mandatory seatbelt warnings. In addition, the Z gets a thinner rear window and a smaller battery. Trunk carpeting, a tire-inflator kit, and most of the sound insulation are gone. New foam eliminates the rear-seat frame and trunk pass-through, saving another nine pounds. Numerous other weight reductions make the Z/28 a claimed 300 pounds lighter than the ZL1.'_

* its motor


----------



## StarHalo

Keep an eye on that Z/28; we've already seen what the 1LE option package does to a heavy SS model, I'm wagering the Z will surpass the stock Corvette's track times..


----------



## orbital

^

To say it'll be fast is an understatement,, a 427 revving that high is simply nuts!
_Also,, I didn't read how they're lightened the Z/28 package until just yesterday _.

____________________________________

Master cutaway artist *Dave Kimble *and the LS7,, the modern 427


----------



## ElectronGuru

Monocrom said:


> I just want to know if there's a V8 option.



Found you a car: 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Fesler+Custom+1963+Buick+Riviera




StarHalo said:


> Just keep in mind that the 4-cyl will be making the same HP as the 6-cyl, and Ecoboost engines are renown for being physically small and lightweight..



I see the same thing with the new Mac Pro. Old one had two boards with 6 cores each. New one has one board with 12 cores. Unspeakable horror at not keeping twin boards and pushing a 24 core option. Although it did quiet down a bit when folks realized the per core price was nearly the same.

It doesn't matter that a 4 or 6 can be enhanced to match the old 8. An 8 with the same enhancement will always be more and the loss of that potential extra will always be felt. Particularly if the engine bay has the room for it. But even ignoring the numbers, there's something about the experience of a v8. A v10 offers 'more' but sounds so lame, I'd still rather have an 8.


----------



## Monocrom

ElectronGuru said:


> Found you a car:
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Fesler+Custom+1963+Buick+Riviera



That _*is*_ a pretty one. But the Buick most in my mind is the GNX.


----------



## orbital

+

Tic-Toc,, Tic-Toc


----------



## Burgess

Michael Schumacher today was badly injured
in a SKIING Accident. 

Among his many accomplishments, 
he is also known as " The STIG " on BBC's Top Gear show.

Best Wishes for the man.


----------



## yoyoman

Cars and lights. Preon PO, AO and a DQG with their magnets put to good use.


----------



## StarHalo

A Porsche 911 off-road variant is incoming, picture a Carrera 4S Audi Allroad-style; stay tuned..

Also, the BMW Z4 got a mild refresh for 2014, is it just me or does it get better looking every time I see it:


----------



## Monocrom

Yup, better looking.

Too bad the 2015 Ford Mustang looks like a hideous abomination.


----------



## orbital

+

A bit of 70s' style on the new Targa


[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/jj8mq9j]

[/URL]


----------



## ven

Loving the 911...........my all time favourite car be it older or new


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Beautiful car! Nice road,, gotta love the bike lane.

Welcome back Bud.

~ Chance



orbital said:


> +
> 
> A bit of 70s' style on the new Targa


----------



## jabe1

New Targa, very nicely done retro look.


----------



## StarHalo

I'll never be a fan of the "hoop", but the implementation is just so clever; it's not really a targa, it's a folding hardtop where the rear greenhouse is part of the folding mechanism, very nicely done..


----------



## tjswarbrick

Monocrom said:


> Yup, better looking.
> 
> Too bad the 2015 Ford Mustang looks like a hideous abomination.



They didn't have one to look at in person at my local Auto Show this weekend, but the more spy shots I see the more I like it. I may be biased, because I want a '16 to go with my '66, but from certain angles it looks pretty badd.
It does have too many creases, angles, ducts and add-ons, though. And those headlights, while very modern and reasonably attractive, have about zero classic Mustang in them (though it looks like they tried to incorporate the inboard "gills".
Did Bangle leave BMW and head to Dearborn?

To me, if they would angle the taillights up a bit, smooth the front lip/spoiler, and bring the headlights forward and make 'em a bit rounder, they'd have done a good job. Oh, and remove the rediculous ducts from the sides of the hood - or at least make 'em flush with the top.










And what's up with BMW and their rear-view mirrors? I'm 6ft tall and sat in a 6-er, 5-er, and the new 428 and on all 3 the mirror is directly in my field of view when I look slightly right. Tried tons of other cars, from tons of other makers - the MB C250 stands out - none had that problem.


----------



## StarHalo

StarHalo said:


> I'll never be a fan of the "hoop", but the implementation is just so clever; it's not really a targa, it's a folding hardtop where the rear greenhouse is part of the folding mechanism, very nicely done..



Like so:






Also, saw my first one of these on the road today, it was very confusing; the SUVs look so much like hatchbacks that now the hatchbacks look like SUVs..


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> A Porsche 911 off-road variant is incoming, picture a Carrera 4S Audi Allroad-style; stay tuned..



+

I framed up this factory Porsche print a few years ago,
*from circa '82 (just RWD)*

..see how I centered thew camera flash over the headlight oo:


----------



## StarHalo

Bummer: The Bugatti Galibier sedan concept is dead and will not enter production. I would definitely prefer the monster 16-cylinder, four-turbo engine in this format than anything pretending to be a trim sports car. Bugatti says a new Veyron is forthcoming, but will not have any more horsepower over the old.


----------



## Monocrom

What's the point of coming out with a new one then?? :fail: on the car company's part.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> What's the point of coming out with a new one then??



I'd wager the Veyron is having some trouble keeping up with the new breed of 700+ HP supercars, so maybe more aero? I'm not sure what else you could do with a two-ton car to get it around the track faster..


----------



## StarHalo

A Chevy Corvette engineer says there is no new ZR1 currently planned, and the head of Porsche's 911 wing says there's no new GT2 forthcoming.


----------



## orbital

+

Race version C7.R from Pratt & Miller

..racing in *full anger* this weekend


----------



## StarHalo

Saw this at the drive-thru this evening, very clever..


----------



## orbital

+

Porsche won the top GTLM (Grand Touring Le Mans) class at the 24 Hours of Daytona this weekend.
This comes after the huge win at 24Hrs. Le Mans last summer

Endurance racing is by far the most torturous form and it is a Porsche forte

They beat factory efforts from:
Aston Martin
Corvette
STR Viper
Ferrari
BMW

If you knew nothing of racing or cars & *only looked at the countless race wins* from the last several decades,,, 
you would say the engine is exactly where it's supposed to be


----------



## StarHalo

Nissan DIG-T R Le Mans racing engine; 1.5 liter 3-cyl turbo, 88 lbs., *400 HP*:


----------



## StarHalo

YEAH BUT THEM RIMS THOUGH


----------



## orbital

^


functionless


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> ^
> 
> 
> functionless



Yeah! But it _looks_ cool. :shakehead


----------



## StarHalo

Looked it up just for fun; 80's-era Caprice lift kit for 28" wheels, budget 28" wheels, bargain 28" tires: $6,000 just parts/no install - the fellow above could have bought_ a second car_ for winter driving.


----------



## StarHalo

One day left to bid: Fleetwood Southwind Storms RV, from the movie _Jurassic Park The Lost World_, currently $14,200 (doesn't run, was parked, interior appears weathered)


----------



## StarHalo

Finally saw my first one of these on the road today,and can say conclusively _you cannot miss it_. The razor-sharp rear fenders, the narrow rear window, all gives a very exotic/supercar air that stands out plainly. It's one of those cars that even if you're with someone who knows nothing about cars, they'll point it out to you..


----------



## Monocrom

It just looks wrong.... somehow.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> It just looks wrong.... somehow.



The taillights are overwrought and the exhaust should be duals to each side of a large diffuser. But still, you can't miss it..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> The taillights are overwrought and the exhaust should be duals to each side of a large diffuser. But still, you can't miss it..



You also can't miss a horrific car accident on the side of the road. Doesn't mean that's a good thing. :shakehead

The back-end also looks like a buck-toothed demon! Scare the crap out of little children.


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> The taillights are overwrought and the exhaust should be duals to each side of a large diffuser. But still, you can't miss it..



+

A diffuser needs to be an option,//// that part of any race car is where the magic occurs

On my camera are pictures of a yellow one I took last summer,, 
hard to explain, it's like GM engineers tried too hard

the C6 is still such a winner in my book


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

All that's missing is a Batman emblem. 

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

The Tyrant: 1966 Chrysler Crown Imperial, powered by Viper V-10:


----------



## Monocrom

Me likey! :twothumbs


----------



## orbital

^^

the absolute first thing I thought of ::: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYnFIRc0k6E


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

It probably only gets 500 smiles per gallon. Sooo much style!

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Jaguar XFR-S Sportbrake, 550hp V8:


----------



## StarHalo

The 2016 Chevy Camaro will receive the chassis from the Cadillac ATS/CTS, a platform that is universally lauded as being superior to current BMW offerings..


----------



## Monocrom

Will it get real windows instead of gun-slits?


----------



## StarHalo

The coupe Caddys have gun slit windows.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> The coupe Caddys have gun slit windows.



So the new Camaro is still stuck with those things.


----------



## Frijid

Anyone ever hear of a GMC syclone? only was around 4,000 made. Had a 262 (4.3L) with a mitsubishi turbo charger on it and had 280 HP and was capable of doing 0-60 in 4.3 seconds? I'd love to test drive one! I mean it's not everyday you read car and drive magazine compare the performance of an S-10 to a corvette, ferrari or a nissan 300zx!


----------



## StarHalo

Frijid said:


> Anyone ever hear of a GMC syclone? only was around 4,000 made. Had a 262 (4.3L) with a mitsubishi turbo charger on it and had 280 HP and was capable of doing 0-60 in 4.3 seconds?



Was closer to five seconds, but yeah, the Syclone is still considered a bright spot amongst truck folks and traded frequently in their classifieds. The acceleration is there in first gear, but the step to second is a big one. It sounds like a powerful vacuum cleaner and it's still an S-10, so you get all the dismal 80's-era GM truck squeaks and rust.

Ford's SVT Lightning F-150 from 2001 had a supercharged V8 with 100 more horsepower, but wasn't all-wheel drive, very close performance-wise though. There was also a Chevy engine option in that era for a ~500 c.i. motor in the Silverado that had some nutty output numbers for a stock engine, probably to face off against Dodge's new V10. Most any well-optioned truck you get nowadays will hit sixty around the six second mark thanks to better tech and tires.


----------



## jabe1

There was also a GMC Typhoon, which was an S-10 Blazer with the same power plant. Fast, but not able to carry anything, there were warnings against it.


----------



## StarHalo

It's a fun engineering exercise; thinking up how GM could make a Syclone now; there is no compact pickup in their lineup, so you'd start with the mid-size Chevy Colorado, which does not come in a standard cab config, and with the all wheel drive would be in the neighborhood of two tons. It should match the current Corvette performance-wise like the old truck did, so that's 12.5 seconds to the quarter mile - maybe 500 hp, so the CTS-V engine? It sort of seems possible..



jabe1 said:


> There was also a GMC Typhoon, which was an S-10 Blazer with the same power plant. Fast, but not able to carry anything, there were warnings against it.



The SUV market has no shortage of sports car fighters though; the Porsche Cayenne, BMW X5 M, etc., and Lamborghini is about to join the fold..


----------



## StarHalo

On the topic of modern truck performance; the 2014 GMC Sierra 1500 6.2L 4x4:






For ~$5k over base, you get the same 6.2L engine found in the current Corvette Stingray, retuned for torque and with some different flow bits, but still providing 420hp/460lb ft through all four wheels. Bearing in mind that this isn't a sport package or some sort of performance model - the 5,700 lb chrome brick rockets to 60 in 5.4 seconds, crossing the quarter mile at 14.1 seconds, _a tie with the Syclone_.


----------



## AZPops

Me in my new Jeep!


----------



## StarHalo

AZPops said:


> Me in my new Jeep!



Fun stuff; mind your doors - they're easy to remove and have resale value.


----------



## AZPops

StarHalo said:


> Fun stuff; mind your doors - they're easy to remove and have resale value.




Thanks Star! That's one thing great about Jeeps, is they hold their value pretty good! ....


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

I think what Star was getting at is they have a tendency to disappear. 

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I think what Star was getting at is they have a tendency to disappear.



Yup. Bro-in-law loved everything about his leased Jeep except having to replace stolen doors. Twice.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

I subscribe to the Vincent Vega school of thought when it comes to a man's car.

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Forgot to mention; yesterday was beach day, sighted:

Ferrari California
Aston Martin convertible
Rolls Royce Wraith
Alfa Romeo Spider (90's era with a hood bulge on one side just in front of the windshield, custom turbo?)
Porsche 911 GT3
Porsche 911 Turbo Convertible

and *seven* Tesla Model S sedans, that car is takin' over (there are at least two owned in my neighborhood)


----------



## Frijid

StarHalo said:


> Yup. Bro-in-law loved everything about his leased Jeep except having to replace stolen doors. Twice.



reminds me of the joke that was told in the TV show ALF, where ALF said he had a cousin named Robin Hood. and Brian asked "what did he do, go around stealing from the rich and giving to the poor?" and ALF replied "No, he just went around robbing hoods off of peoples cars!"


On a side note, i've never owned a jeep, but the latches on the hoods makes it look like you can unhook them and open the hood from the outside. Is that true, or do you still have a latch inside?


----------



## AZPops

Frijid said:


> reminds me of the joke that was told in the TV show ALF, where ALF said he had a cousin named Robin Hood. and Brian asked "what did he do, go around stealing from the rich and giving to the poor?" and ALF replied "No, he just went around robbing hoods off of peoples cars!"
> 
> 
> On a side note, i've never owned a jeep, but the latches on the hoods makes it look like you can unhook them and open the hood from the outside. Is that true, or do you still have a latch inside?




No inside latch.

Pops


----------



## orbital

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I think what Star was getting at is they have a tendency to disappear.
> 
> ~ Chance



+

Disappear,,,, for a while I thought you were on that Malaysian plane..

welcome back :wave:
__________________________________________________________


----------



## Launch Mini

Star, your Jeep looks a lot like the one I just bought, except I went with the Soft Top only version. ( no room to store a Hard Top when it's off).
We've wanted one for about 25 years, finally got one in November. So far it is as fun as we thought it would be.
I think we had 300Km on it when we took it for some mild 4 wheeling on FSR roads


----------



## idleprocess

Friend of mine let a 1995 F250 7.3L turbo diesel w/ 380,000 miles on it sit in their driveway for >2 years completely unused. The city informed them that they were treating it as a junk vehicle and were going to impound it if they didn't show it to be in operating condition, inspected, etc. Replaced the utterly dead batteries (yes, plural) and after less than 5 seconds of cranking - _not even enough time to frown_ - it roared to life and motored around town like it had last been used yesterday. Were it 4WD, I would have been irresponsible and likely bought it from them as they don't particularly want it any more.


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Disappear,,,, for a while I thought you were on that Malaysian plane..



Was reading about the Malaysian plane, my head hurts..



Launch Mini said:


> Star, your Jeep looks a lot like the one I just bought, except I went with the Soft Top only



That's AzPops' Jeep, I drive a Feud Forsion. And the soft top is the model that gets its doors stolen most often because you only need a knife to cut the rear quarter window, do beware.



idleprocess said:


> Friend of mine let a 1995 F250 7.3L turbo diesel w/ 380,000 miles on it sit in their driveway for >2 years completely unused.



That's scary enough with a standard engine, but picturing that turbo trying to spool up tens of thousands of RPMs dry, yeesh..


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> That's scary enough with a standard engine, but picturing that turbo trying to spool up tens of thousands of RPMs dry, yeesh..


My main concern was the fuel - thankfully diesel is far more shelf-stable than gasoline.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Thanks for noticing, orbital. I've not had much to write lately. :wave:

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Went out to Long Beach today without realizing that they're preparing for the Long Beach Grand Prix; it's held on the streets, so as I'm driving downtown the sides of the road suddenly have crash-and-fence walls, then with bleachers behind them, and ads are strewn everywhere - so I've officially driven part of the Long Beach Grand Prix track ..in a Ford sedan in traffic, but yeah, fun stuff..


----------



## 59ride

Not as fancy as some on here but this is mine, an HSV GTO with a 6.2 litre V8 6 speed, head and cam done plus lowered and full stainless exhaust with ceramic 4 into 1 headers, twin plate clutch and upgraded fuel system i.e. hi flow rails and twin bosch fuel pumps, punches out 458 rwhp and 770nm torque, only gets driven a few times a month


----------



## tjswarbrick

jabe1 said:


> There was also a GMC Typhoon, which was an S-10 Blazer with the same power plant. Fast, but not able to carry anything, there were warnings against it.



There's a bright yellow Typhoon around the corner from my house - they've had it over ten years (probably lots over.) Seems to be in decent shape for an S-10 of that vintage. Every once in a while I even see it on the road.
Used to carpool Boulder to Denver with a co-worker who had a 2.8L S-10 Blazer of that (or a slightly earlier) era. He couldn't carry anything, either - because it could barely make it up the hill back into Boulder. "Gutless Beast" he affectionately called it.


----------



## tjswarbrick

StarHalo said:


> Went out to Long Beach today without realizing that they're preparing for the Long Beach Grand Prix; it's held on the streets, so as I'm driving downtown the sides of the road suddenly have crash-and-fence walls, then with bleachers behind them, and ads are strewn everywhere - so I've officially driven part of the Long Beach Grand Prix track ..in a Ford sedan in traffic, but yeah, fun stuff..



Did the same thing a few years back when I was visiting down there, but IIRC it was just days after the race. Kinda cool, but speeds in LA traffic are significantly lower...
I drive part of the San Jose Grand Prix whenever I go downtown or visit the Children's Discovery Museum. I actually watched that (first) race - most of it was run opposite to the flow of "regular" traffic. But it was awesome watching/hearing them go from 20 to 160 in the span of a couple highrises!


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> Went out to Long Beach today without realizing that they're preparing for the Long Beach Grand Prix; it's held on the streets, so as I'm driving downtown the sides of the road suddenly have crash-and-fence walls, then with bleachers behind them, and ads are strewn everywhere - so I've officially driven part of the Long Beach Grand Prix track ..in a Ford sedan in traffic, but yeah, fun stuff..



Took a nonstop road trip Dallas to Minneapolis many years ago. Driving through Kansas City in the middle of the night zoned out on autopilot, I'm suddenly aware of the fact that I have entered a construction zone - the lanes have narrowed by roughly 50%, there are Jersey barriers flanking both zero-width shoulders with low-hanging lights every 20 yards, and the lanes are constantly shifting ... all giving the illusion of terrific speed. Was good fun and it was funny when my passenger woke up a bit startled as I started zig-zagging along with the road.


----------



## StarHalo

59ride said:


> an HSV GTO with a 6.2 litre V8



Quality, I'd love one of those with an open exhaust, the insurance would be insane though (aside from the fact that the car company that made those here no longer exists..)


----------



## StarHalo

Nissan Maxima exiting I-95 exit ramp in Connecticut. Hit five other cars and a building, but missed the gas station; no life threatening injures.


----------



## tjswarbrick

StarHalo said:


> Quality, I'd love one of those with an open exhaust, the insurance would be insane though (aside from the fact that the car company that made those here no longer exists..)



A couple guys at work have late-model GTO's - a yellow one with the 5.7, and a silver 6.0.

If you don't mind an extra pair of doors, isn't the new Chevy SS basically a sedan version of the med/short wheelbase Holden? I sat in one recently at an auto show and was pleasantly surprised. Supposed to have a 415hp 6.2L LS3.


----------



## StarHalo

tjswarbrick said:


> the new Chevy SS basically a sedan version



Yeah, the return of the Pontiac G8, I introduced it here; I'm more of a sedan guy, so I'd prefer that one. But as is usually the case, the Aussie version is better:


----------



## 59ride

StarHalo said:


> Quality, I'd love one of those with an open exhaust, the insurance would be insane though (aside from the fact that the car company that made those here no longer exists..)


yeah i blew up the 6.0 litre, pushed a piston thru the side, so purchased an LS3 6.2 crate motor as a replacement.


----------



## Frijid

I'm on the fence when it comes to cars. One side of me loves imports, like the RX7,RX8,MX5,S2000,Skyline GTR,etc. The other side of me love good ol american muscle. ford 289/302/351. Chevy 305/350/396/454/572,etc. gmc typhoon, buick grand national, IROC-Z camaro,etc. If i lived in the uk or australia were rotary engines are easy to get parts for, i'd only own a rotary engine car. Which was part of the reason I sold my RX7, it would be a nightmare to get parts for one here in america, let alone know anyone who even knows about fixing them. Just watched a video on youtube where some morons took a 2nd GEN RX7, took the radiator cap off and drained all the outta the engine, sitting still in park, socked it to the floor and it ran at 9,000 RPM for like 7-8 minutes before it seized. If they'd had oil in it and left the cap on it, i'm convinced it would have lasted longer. I know i was told in several different forums and by a few people, that with wankel rotaries, you're supposed to redline them often while driving them to keep carbon buildup at bay. I would normally pull about 6-7K RPMS about once or twice a week, along with running a gas treatment for carbon. From the reading i've done, the engines loved to be ran hard. I've looked at a lot of domestic cars made now a days, and hardly none impress me. I see everyone buying the new corvettes/camaros/chargers,etc. If i had that money, i swear i'd think hard about getting a GNX. Something impressive about making a 3.8 litre,stock, pull 0-60 in 4.5 seconds. In all the searching i've done the fastest 0-60 car i've ever encountered on youtube was a skyline that pulled it in 1.2 seconds.


----------



## StarHalo

Frijid said:


> If i had that money, i swear i'd think hard about getting a GNX. Something impressive about making a 3.8 litre,stock, pull 0-60 in 4.5 seconds.



It was closer to 5 seconds; 245 HP was exotic car territory on those days, but the bar has moved a lot since then - the current V6 Mustang has a smaller engine with no turbo, but belts out 305 HP with similar acceleration (and 29 MPG highway.)


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> It was closer to 5 seconds; 245 HP was exotic car territory on those days, but the bar has moved a lot since then - the current V6 Mustang has a smaller engine with no turbo, but belts out 305 HP with similar acceleration (and 29 MPG highway.)


As appealing as the V6 Mustang sounds on paper, my experience with the current-generation _interior_ left me distinctly underwhelmed. The "Nu-retro" styling does absolutely nothing for me. The car is enormous for a 2-door yet is cramped on the interior (I'm tall and need the legroom) and the layout just fails to appeal.


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> The "Nu-retro" styling does absolutely nothing for me.



Well there's nu-retro and then there's just retro..


----------



## Frijid

I liked how the interior on my RX7 was set up. Mine was exactly like this, only everything was more greyish in color. It had sort of a "rocket ship" feeling about it, like how the heater control knobs turned from side to side like a dial and the equalizer knobs that went up and down for the radio. I'd sometimes when bored pretend i was in a space ship heading to alpha centauri. LOL. everything worked, except the cassette player,and it for some reason only worked when the weather was hot. You'd go out in the cold like in the morning and plug in a cassette (yes, i'm in my 20's and still use cassettes) and you'd plug it in and you'd just hear a clicking noise. When noon rolled around and it wormed up, then it would play all day. strangest thing.


----------



## StarHalo

Actually now that I think about it, you have some options if you want a current American turbo V6; these two are twin-turbo V6s in fact:


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Well there's nu-retro and then there's just retro..



Damn!.... The interior of my father's '81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme looked way better than whatever ride that is.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Damn!.... The interior of my father's '81 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme looked way better than whatever ride that is.



That's the Buick GNX's interior; two-color seats and round gauges are the giveaway.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> That's the Buick GNX's interior; two-color seats and round gauges are the giveaway.


 
What year? Late 60's? That shifter reminds me of the one in a 67 Mustang I owned. 

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> What year? Late 60's? That shifter reminds me of the one in a 67 Mustang I owned.



1987. More effort was put into the '67 Stang's interior..


----------



## Monocrom

Yeah, the Buick GNX was about 20 years too late as a muscle car. And sadly, the interior shows it. :shakehead


----------



## turbodog

s2000 owner here...


----------



## orbital

+

My neighbor (the guy with a 991 GT3 allocation) had a new white Stingray in his drive,
not totally surprising because he was talking up a Z28 pretty hard last fall (the performance/dollar numbers ect.)

didn't get a chance to talk to him,, but I did hear it & it's slightly higher pitch than the twin exhaust ports
..it may have been a test drive, but something tells me it's his

I 'll update this & his thoughts on the Stingray


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

orbital,

Tell your neighbor all your friends at the Cafe would really like to read your thoughts on the Stingray after an extended ride. Of course it wouldn't be a proper write-up if you didn't get a Chance to drive.......

Some pictures would make it complete.

~ Chance


----------



## moldyoldy

maybe 20 years ago, a (former) neighbor had a Studebaker Avanti: big block, racing cam, twin superchargers, metallic brakes, glass- or steel-packs. I was present when he sold it. It could barely idle. He said it was more than fast....but he admitted that he was too old for that much power any more.


----------



## Frijid

turbodog said:


> s2000 owner here...




I like those s2K's, they're good cars. Though i'll admit and i know a lot of s2K owners take it as an insult, but at a distance i'll often confuse them for a MX-5.


----------



## StarHalo

Frijid said:


> at a distance i'll often confuse them for a MX-5.



You won't confuse the two when you see the distance between them from a stoplight.. To be fair though, the Miata has an optional folding hardtop, and paddle shifters..


----------



## Koto

Datsun Roadster

Hotlinked image removed. Hotlinking is not permitted. - Empath


----------



## StarHalo

Motor Trend got a hold of a Nissan GT-R Track Edition, a Chevy Camaro Z28, and a Porsche 911 Turbo S, and whipped them around Barber Motorsports Park. Guess who had the shortest time? Hint: it had a stick and rear wheel drive..


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Motor Trend got a hold of a Nissan GT-R Track Edition, a Chevy Camaro Z28, and a Porsche 911 Turbo S, and whipped them around Barber Motorsports Park. Guess who had the shortest time? Hint: it had a stick and rear wheel drive..



+

star
the most significant part is, of all the tracks, you would think the 4WDs' would have a massive advantage on the roller coaster of Barber.

really shows how nuts the new Z28 is





(driver assist crap = *baggage*)))


----------



## orbital

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> orbital,
> 
> Tell your neighbor all your friends at the Cafe would really like to read your thoughts on the Stingray after an extended ride. Of course it wouldn't be a proper write-up if you didn't get a Chance to drive.......
> 
> Some pictures would make it complete.
> 
> ~ Chance



+

*Talked to my brother this evening, my neighbor bought both the Stingray & new Z28* *w/* *race package*
both, no typo 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj1h75vA1Jw

When I saw his Stingray last Saturday, he must have been checking out stuff at his cabin,, not sure when he'll be around next.

This guy is a bit older & yes successful, one of the biggest Porsche guys ever and he decided against getting the 991 GT3


----------



## StarHalo

The first McLaren P1 to be delivered to the US has arrived, guess who bought it..


----------



## 59ride

that is one ugly car


----------



## StarHalo

59ride said:


> that is one ugly car



Unless you're driving a Porsche 918, you'll only be seeing the rear of it briefly..


----------



## StarHalo

McLaren has announced in a mass e-mail that due to the success of the new 650S, production of the MP4-12C has concluded.


----------



## yoyoman

My 1986 Porsche 911 3.2 is back from the Marc de Siebenthal spa. Brakes, lights, a little engine tuning and an oil change. Marc is a master and really nice guy. Lots of air cooled Porsches getting tuned for the racing season. Had fun just looking at all of them. Some real classics. After renting a new Audi A3 for a week, it was joy to get my car back. And just in time for the weekend.


----------



## StarHalo

Maximum warp, make it so.

From Twitter: _Patrick Stewart, @SirPatStew
__@JeremyClarkson_ Sorry neighbour but I think, for once, I got there before you.


----------



## Monocrom

You know it's funny because as a classically trained actor, he at first wanted to turn down the role he was offered on Star Trek because it would have meant moving to Hollywood. A friend convinced him to do it by pointing out that it would likely only last a season and a half at most. It was a chance for him to make some really good money, and he'd soon be back to doing what he wanted to do. So Stewart signed the contract. Oops! Show turned out to be popular and Stewart was just too good and popular as Captain Piccard.


----------



## StarHalo

New California vandalism trend: Smart Car tipping (if you didn't know, they're rear engine/rear wheel drive, so they are indeed tail-heavy..)


----------



## Monocrom

Ha ha!

Obviously I would never support any sort of vandalism.... No matter how funny it might be.


----------



## StarHalo

Snapped at a stoplight earlier today: It must be a good car if you have it shipped 8,000+ miles (it says "Dubai"):


----------



## jabe1

We used to do something similar to a friend in high school. He drove a Honda Coupe. We were able to turn it sideways in parking spots, and once after a few too many beers, we put it on his front porch after he went in for the night. 







StarHalo said:


> New California vandalism trend: Smart Car tipping (if you didn't know, they're rear engine/rear wheel drive, so they are indeed tail-heavy..)


----------



## Launch Mini

jabe1 said:


> We used to do something similar to a friend in high school. He drove a Honda Coupe. We were able to turn it sideways in parking spots, and once after a few too many beers, we put it on his front porch after he went in for the night.



We may or may not have done something similar to a teachers Honda Civic. Somehow it ended up on the school stage in the Gym.


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Motor Trend got a hold of a Nissan GT-R Track Edition, a Chevy Camaro Z28, and a Porsche 911 Turbo S, and whipped them around Barber Motorsports Park. Guess who had the shortest time? Hint: it had a stick and rear wheel drive..



+

had to get some work done on my Jeep today & in the lounge was this issue of MT

So, today was my first reading of this shootout
the fact it was so cold at Barber that day makes the Z28 times just incredible.

Even more interesting was Randy Pobst being one of the testers,, he and my neighbor guy have a close friendship.
Randy drove my neighbors '73 911 at Blackhawk Farms Raceway & said it was probably the most balanced* 911 he ever drove 

Absolutely true story


* understeer to oversteer balance


----------



## StarHalo

Z06. Convertible.


----------



## StarHalo

Dodge is introducing a 12 month lease; rent a 470 hp muscle car for a year and then just give it back, what could go wrong..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Dodge is introducing a 12 month lease; rent a 470 hp muscle car for a year and then just give it back, what could go wrong..



LOL .... Seriously?!?!

Oh man! Who was the "genius" over at Dodge who thought that one up?


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> Dodge is introducing a 12 month lease; rent a 470 hp muscle car for a year and then just give it back, what could go wrong..


Surely they'll just ask for the keys on those lease returns, release you from any liability, then blithely hand it over to the next sucker with a grenaded drivetrain...


----------



## StarHalo

2015 Dodge Challenger, that is indeed a *shaker hood*:


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> 2015 Dodge Challenger, that is indeed a *shaker hood*:



Nice!!!!!!

Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## StarHalo

The 2015 Mustang's Track Apps Pack, which includes launch control, will also have a _line lock_ - lock up the front wheels and spin the rears freely..


----------



## tjswarbrick

StarHalo said:


> The 2015 Mustang's Track Apps Pack, which includes launch control, will also have a _line lock_ - lock up the front wheels and spin the rears freely..




Brought to you by Goodyear...

That car looks better each time I see it. Keep it light and DD an ecoboost 4, or go all-out on the 5.0?


----------



## StarHalo

tjswarbrick said:


> Keep it light and DD an ecoboost 4, or go all-out on the 5.0?



You're going to get dunked with the insurance payments, may as well get whatever will fit in the engine bay..

Edit: And here's the Ford company video showing off line lock:


----------



## StarHalo

Happy 83rd, Porsche


----------



## StarHalo

Or not; the BRZ STi project has been cancelled.



StarHalo said:


> That would be the fender vent on a Subaru BRZ - things are about to get very interesting..


----------



## StarHalo

Was-not-aware: The LaFerrari doesn't have seats, it has molded, padded "forms" which rest directly on the carbon-fiber tub for more feel and lower seating; two inches lower than an Enzo.


----------



## tjswarbrick

StarHalo said:


> Or not; the BRZ STi project has been cancelled.



That's too bad. Drove a BRZ yesterday. A touch more power wouldn't hurt it...


----------



## StarHalo

Some of you might recall the discussion about Teslas and burnouts from earlier in the thread, about how they can't do burnouts and theorizing how to get around it:



StarHalo said:


> from what I've seen, the car doesn't allow full motor power from a dead stop - it carefully parses it out so the tires aren't overwhelmed with all the idle torque, and you can watch the power gauge slowly climb as MPH rises. But it has no power-metering provision for the reverse gear, so stomping it in reverse causes the motor to dump all 295 lb ft. of torque in an instant and do a muscle-car wall-of-smoke burnout. In theory, at least.



Road & Track figured it out - they *removed a fuse from the fusebox* on their Tesla S, which disabled the traction control (and unfortunately also disabled the ABS, air suspension, speedometer, brake assist, and power steering, so don't try this at home.) The result is one of the strangest burnouts of all time; the motor gleefully endeavors to spin the tires to the 132 mph speed limiter, so there's loads of billowy tire smoke pouring forth everywhere, but there's _no engine sound_:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

^
Billowing, white goodness!  

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

+

The first cars of the season are testing right now at Road America
it's a bit of a late start, but there was a complete rebuild/redo of Turn 6 bridge.

I can pick out engines by exhaust note, but today I heard something new~~ 

edit: can't be sure what I heard, so I'll keep it to the bliss of hearing a race engine having its way with R/A


----------



## StarHalo

Strange donuts footnote: A dead stock Smart car proving that it is indeed rear-engine, rear-wheel-drive:


----------



## StarHalo

One more: Rolls-Royce chassis powered by a 1,030 hp Merlin V12 aircraft engine from a Hawker Hurricane. Not just through skinny tires, but with no locking diff; check out how much smoke they make in just a few yards:


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> One more: Rolls-Royce chassis powered by a 1,030 hp Merlin V12 aircraft engine from a Hawker Hurricane. Not just through skinny tires, but with no locking diff; check out how much smoke they make in just a few yards:



That reads like a 24 Hours of Lemons project idea, only it costs more than $500 - even by Lemons' screwy accounting rules.


----------



## StarHalo

Brabus G-Wagen Convertible; needs some off-road wheels/tires, and a non-murdered-out paint scheme..


----------



## Monocrom

It's soooooo depressingly Grey. 

Someone shoot it, and put the poor thing out of its misery.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

Looks like a Geo Tracker...


----------



## orbital

+
*
S2000 fans*
.. a mid-engined 2L turbo is coming in a couple years, having AWD w/ possible hybrid tech
est. 350 hp

_start savin' your pennies_


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> 2L turbo is coming in a couple years, having AWD w/ possible hybrid tech



Sounds like a lovely Audi TT, which is fitting since whatever vaporware incarnation of the NSX they're pushing this season is a lovely Audi R8..

But speaking of turbo AWD, the Dodge Dart SRT will have it; the builders of the Omni GLH-S are going gunning for the Subaru WRX..

Edit: A more interesting mid-engine offering; the Cayman GT3:


----------



## orbital

^

So when did Audi buy Honda, or did Honda buy Audi?

____________________________________________

I'll say this,, the R8 turnkey _grande touring _racer is becoming better every year.

Tough & reliable


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> So when did Audi buy Honda, or did Honda buy Audi?



Ze Germans are also warming up in the compact car bullpen..


----------



## orbital

+

Talked to my neighbor w/ the C7* Stingray* today,, I asked what he thought of it and he said* 'it's too fast'*
..this from a guy who's spent alot of time on actual racetracks in cars where roll cages & helmets are mandatory {different GT3s' ect}

It has the Z51 package; close ratio gearing, dry sump, something like 5 driving modes which changes everything on it,,, suspension/mapping /steering
He said when shifting into second & dropping the hammer is unlike anything he's ever driven

_a modern high revving 380 cubic inch_


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Talked to my neighbor w/ the C7* Stingray* today,, I asked what he thought of it and he said* 'it's too fast'*



You know Chevy's getting somewhere when a Camaro, not even the Corvette, beats the Porsche Turbo around a track..

Other news: 

Saw one of these on the road today; brings back the feeling of seeing the Pontiac Aztek for the first time. A truly offensive bowel movement of a car - see that "500L" badge centered on the back? That's not a pre-production feature, the actual car has a giant chrome emblem the size of the license plate right in the middle of the hatch, as though the designers wanted an oversize bling necklace to draw attention away from the malformed, lumpy backend, yeesh..


----------



## Monocrom

The back looks like a constipated demon.


----------



## StarHalo

Bravado Banshee, courtesy AutoEroticar, Alderney, Liberty City. Available on EBay starting at $170K.


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> Bravado Banshee, courtesy AutoEroticar, Alderney, Liberty City. Available on EBay starting at $170K.


Capital Autos in Harwood always has one in stock.


----------



## orbital

+

Saw my first M4 today in town, had to do a double take after looking at the 'M' badge

..it was in this color


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> ..it was in this color



Love that color, hope to see more of it around town.

In other news, _lowrider fighting_:






Also, I would totally drive a crappy 80's-era Cutlass if it could jump five feet straight up into the air..


----------



## Launch Mini

My local dealership had one in the show room. Stunning.
There was also a 2 series with the "M Package", again a very nice looking car.
Sorry no pix, as having them on my phone would be too tempting for me to upgrade to one of them.


----------



## orbital

^

yeah, call it a deeper French Blue, very nice & classic color.
I'v always dug inline 6s' and paired with a manual 6 speed, it's a proper sports car


It would be fairly easy to get another 100hp & 100 torque from a simple remap (thanks to being a forced induction config)






_______________^ stock #s


----------



## StarHalo

Guy renders world for car racing, sets the gravity to moon level, then races *three thousand cars all at once*. Hilarity and gorgeousness ensues..


----------



## StarHalo

The true spirit of racing: Red Bull Soapbox Derby 2013, a remarkably unstable Minibus cart is about to become a whole lot more unstable:


----------



## StarHalo

From the Why-Didn't-I-Think-Of-That dept., Shelby Mustang with custom Cobra nitrous purge:


----------



## 4sevens

deadmau5 is a fan of the mono
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h5muAHD-gM



4sevens said:


> BAC Mono


----------



## orbital

+

2015 GT-R 600hp~481 lb-ft of torque

end of July...






possibly the best series of turns, anywhere___________^


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> 2015 GT-R 600hp~481 lb-ft of torque
> 
> end of July...
> 
> possibly the best series of turns, anywhere___________^



Always a mixed bag with AWD cars and track driving; the surest way to get the best time, but not nearly as entertaining as RWD. Watching how little difficulty Mark Higgins and his Subaru WRX have setting a lap record at Isle of Man is inspiring though:


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Always a mixed bag with AWD cars and track driving; the surest way to get the best time,...



+

Speaking of AWD, Acura is set to debut its *Pirelli World Challenge** car for the GT class very soon.
It'll be a V6 turbo w/ AWD set to go against FIA GT3 spec cars {McLaren_, _Lamborghini, Audi R8, Porsche, Mercedes SLS, Ferrari 458, Cadillac ,, ect}
...safe to say it'll be right in the hunt.

That series was just at Road America last weekend,, absolutely killer!!

Thursday, I stood right behind Mike Skeen's R8 while it was going through mapping/diagnostics,, just 8 feet from the race version 5.2L V10 with straight stainless exhausts, _that engine note was porn to me_.



*
*The Road America race will be aired on TV this 4th of July,, check it out*


----------



## LeafBlower

Just bought my dream car last week. Audi R8, maybe the most beautiful car ever! :twothumbs


----------



## StarHalo

LeafBlower said:


> Just bought my dream car last week. Audi R8, maybe the most beautiful car ever! :twothumbs



Gonna pick up the Spyder version of one of those just as soon as I win the lottery..


----------



## StarHalo

You might have noticed a topographic map decal on the hoods of some of the prototype/Moab Jeeps released as of late; Jeep has announced they will now offer this decal, custom printed to any location of your choice, on any new Wrangler or Cherokee as a $300 option.






Other news: Dodge is going to offer an apology for the new Viper being unable to keep up with the new Corvette, and it'll be in the form of a supercharged 6.2L Hemi under the hood of a Challenger available in a range of colors at your local Dodge dealer (and will be the most powerful American production car in history):


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Other news: Dodge is going to offer an apology for the new Viper being unable to keep up with the new Corvette, and it'll be in the form of a supercharged 6.2L Hemi under the hood of a Challenger available in a range of colors at your local Dodge dealer (and will be the most powerful American production car in history):


----------



## StarHalo

Place your bets:


----------



## StarHalo

StarHalo said:


> a supercharged 6.2L Hemi under the hood of a Challenger



..which runs the quarter mile in 10.85 seconds.

..versus the Nissan GT-R's 11.2 seconds..


----------



## orbital

+

Took these shots about 2 hours ago at Road America

_*458 Speciale*_














I was talking with dealer from Vancouver, he said delivery of the Speciale was about a month ago..


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> _*458 Speciale*_



I'd say we need a Spyder edition, but they're probably about to redo the entire 458 lineup with turbo powerplants..


----------



## StarHalo

2015 Smartcar; still rear-engine, rear-wheel drive, same length but wider track, and now available with manual transmission and 90hp turbo engine..


----------



## StarHalo

The 2015 Ford Mustang EcoBoost 4-cyl turbo sounds like.. a Mustang:


----------



## gswitter

Sounds like a WRX.
_
Not that there's anything wrong with that._


----------



## orbital

+

Saw one of the new Mustangs at the track this weekend, in person it looks like a car with a turbo in it
..in other words, not an old school muscle car

____________________________________________________________________________



This thing caught my eye, it had custom For Sale sign on the dash with a cell# & email address only, no price!
_Very well_ turned out car, professional creation for sure ~ V8 in back (definitely not a crate motor though)


----------



## StarHalo

Production Audi R8 LMX with *laser headlights*; they only engage at over 37mph if the sensors detect that the road ahead is clear, since they're pushing *450,000 candela*, or about three times the legal US limit, providing a half mile of visibility. Europe only.


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> Production Audi R8 LMX with *laser headlights*; they only engage at over 37mph if the sensors detect that the road ahead is clear, since they're pushing *450,000 candela*, or about three times the legal US limit, providing a half mile of visibility. Europe only.


And we might see DOT regs loosen up to allow something like that circa 2050? I can hardly wait for what will have replaced it by then that we'll be missing out on.


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> And we might see DOT regs loosen up to allow something like that circa 2050? I can hardly wait for what will have replaced it by then that we'll be missing out on.



And it might be affordable by then; aside from the headlights this special-edition R8 has a handful more horsepower, some carbon bits, and diamond-stitched interior touches - and costs almost *80%* more than the usual R8, well over $200K..


----------



## StarHalo

Goodbye, Veyron:






Porsche 918: 0-60: 2.2 sec, 1/4 mi: [email protected]
Bugatti Veyron Grand Sport: 0-60: 2.7 sec, 1/4 mi: [email protected]


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> And it might be affordable by then; aside from the headlights this special-edition R8 has a handful more horsepower, some carbon bits, and diamond-stitched interior touches - and costs almost *80%* more than the usual R8, well over $200K..


BMW has some adaptive headlights almost ready for prime time _(albeit using lowly LED's or HID's rather than sekzi sekzi lasers)_ that seem to be headed for more pedestrian vehicles than Audis.


----------



## bloodtype_Z

Any other track junkies in here? Not sure if this is more of a picture/dream car thread or actual owned rides thread. I try to get out every weekend to the few local tracks in my area. Haven't run a series yet but I think next year I may try one out. Mine's an '05 350Z that I've thrown as much of my hard earned cash as possible at (aka what my wife lets me/doesn't know about lol). It can pretty well handle all I'm able to ask of her as a weekend warrior. Tracking is, so far, the most fun I've had with clothes on and I love seeing other cars perform to their potential and especially love seeing them at their limits. This years highlights so far have been a 911 GTS that was unreal fast around a very technical oriented track, a 1200hp Shelby that could overcome driver inability and poor handling with sheer power lol, and my personal favorite a radical S3 with a 1300 hayabusa motor (pics to follow).




[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## bloodtype_Z

[


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> ...
> Porsche 918: 0-60: 2.2 sec, 1/4 mi: [email protected]
> Bugatti Veyron Grand Sport: 0-60: 2.7 sec, 1/4 mi: [email protected]



RE:: _*918*_

Nearly 30 years ago, Porsche rewrote the definition of a supercar with the 959..
now they did it again with the 918

In another 30 years, it will be the same 0-60 & 1/4 mi numbers using very little, if any, fossil fuel 


great pic of the 918 btw!:thumbsup:


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Nearly 30 years ago, Porsche rewrote the definition of a supercar with the 959..



That was my thought, "This is definitely the same company that made the 959.." It makes me think about that record Nurburgring time set by the thousand horsepower Porsche race car ages ago; this car has nearly the same thousand horsepower, but AWD, active aero, all kinds of assists, so are we nearing the day when a road car turns in that insane 6:10-something number?



bloodtype_Z said:


> Not sure if this is more of a picture/dream car thread or actual owned rides thread.



Anything and everything about cars, man. No brake troubles with your Z? I'm kind of wary of them after Car & Driver's expose on their braking issues..


----------



## bloodtype_Z

StarHalo said:


> That was my thought, "This is definitely the same company that made the 959.." It makes me think about that record Nurburgring time set by the thousand horsepower Porsche race car ages ago; this car has nearly the same thousand horsepower, but AWD, active aero, all kinds of assists, so are we nearing the day when a road car turns in that insane 6:10-something number?
> 
> 
> 
> Anything and everything about cars, man. No brake troubles with your Z? I'm kind of wary of them after Car & Driver's expose on their braking issues..



Nope, nothing on the factory base brakes when I first got the car. Albeit, I didn't track it for the first year I owned it. No issues whatsoever with the factory brembo's I ended up upgrading to and heavily tracking. Especially not with ate super blue, stainless lines and proper pads. Now, I'm on wilwood 6 piston/4 piston big brakes. Take what you read from C&D with a grain of salt, they're by no means a completely objective camp.


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> .. so are we nearing the day when a road car turns in that insane 6:10-something number?..



^

Probably
Everything is going turbo w/ integrated energy recovery systems that are wildly complex.
Yes even Ferrari 

In Grand Touring classes worldwide (GTLM~ FIA GT3, ect) the race variants do not have more horsepower than the ones you buy off the showroom floor,
although they are much, much lighter.

____________________________________

side note: The new Porsche prototype charges their battery system from one of the turbos, from the turbo!! *that's big brain smart*
It's all about efficiency


----------



## StarHalo

Tony Stewart might be #14 on the racetrack, but they'll probably give him a different number in prison..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Terrible tragedy. :sigh:

~ C.G.


----------



## bloodtype_Z

Is it true the kid got out of his car and went out onto the track to confront Stewart??? Definitely a tragedy but not sure what he expected walking out onto a track during a race with the lighting the way it looked. Again, not sure of the 100% factual details but that's what parking lots are for. Either way, nothing but the utmost sympathy to the kids family.


----------



## Monocrom

bloodtype_Z said:


> Is it true the kid got out of his car and went out onto the track to confront Stewart???



Yes it is. He completely lost his temper, and then his Life.


----------



## bloodtype_Z

Got to check out an AMS Alpha 12 on the weekend. The owner said it was making around 1400hp on 114 octane. I have no idea if the numbers were accurate but it definitely was one of the fastest cars I've ever been in. All while maintaining factory AC, stereo, and a full interior. Still not a big fan of the paddle shift revolution, though. I guess it's all about personal preference but I'd rather shift my own gears in my super car. The experience just feels too antiseptic with all the driver aids, launch control, paddle shifting etc. It just feels like you're less in control of things and more of a navigator.


----------



## orbital

+

_*C7 Strip Club*_












^ the pics just don't do justice on the brilliant use of aluminum >> Lightness & stiffness of the frame makes all the difference.
You can't really see, but it's basically a roll cage.


took these this weekend at the United SportsCar event at Road America


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> _*C7 Strip Club*_



Looks like less frame than the recent Ferraris, good to know those rear inlets do something..

Other news: I was driving alongside this very Rally Fighter this morning, it looks just as oddly proportioned in person as it does in pictures. The body panels look like race car fiberglass, BMW-ish taillights, Benz-Stirling-Moss-esque matte exhaust bits in the front quarter panels, etc. Nice burbly engine though..


----------



## orbital

+

$38,100,000 at auction






1962 Ferrari 250 GTO Berlinetta


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> $38,100,000 at auction



Can't picture doing that even if I had the money, would prefer another garage full of cars..

Other news: Your local Dodge dealer will now have sedans that go 204 mph. The young version of myself that bought his first issue of Car&Driver with the all-new 202 mph Lamborghini Diablo on it is very confused..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Four doors, no waiting. I like it!

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Grocery shopping this morning; Hey mister! Somebody accidentally put R8 wheels on your A6!


----------



## orbital

+

My neighbor with the *Stingray* dropped his allocation for the Z/28

although dot, dot, dot, dot







actually took this photo the first week of July, 
hint:: twin turbo & AWD


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Can't picture doing that even if I had the money, would prefer another garage full of cars..
> 
> Other news: Your local Dodge dealer will now have sedans that go 204 mph. The young version of myself that bought his first issue of Car&Driver with the all-new 202 mph Lamborghini Diablo on it is very confused..



Front end looks like the new model Chrysler Sebring 200.


----------



## orbital

+

addition to my previous post


----------



## StarHalo

2016 Mazda Miata; the engine is fully behind the front axle line, and I'm not seeing a turbo in the illustrations..


----------



## orbital

+

So behind the axle makes it a mid engine right..

Another bizzilion will be sold for street & track
(Miata is the most raced car hands down,, then a multitude of different 911s)
Mazdas big thing is the SkyActiv tech, I talked to a Mazda guy & it's the technology in the cylinder head for super efficiency.

The Miata needs to keep it's high revving, top down fun!! 
my guess:: 1.6L turbo, direct injected w/ a side of SkyActiv tech


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> 2016 Mazda Miata; the engine is fully behind the front axle line, *and I'm not seeing a turbo in the illustrations..*



Boo. :thumbsdow


----------



## StarHalo

On the auction block next month: The bike so cool I named my Maglite after it, _Easy Rider_'s Captain America; expected to fetch up to $1.2 million.


----------



## BloodLust

*FERRARI WORLD*

Forgive the bad pics. Had to rely on my old phone

Just came from Ferrari World in Abu Dhabi.
Rode the Formula Rossa - World's fastest roller coaster. I was launched at 0-150mph/240kph in 4.9 seconds at 1.7G.
Drove Michael Schumacher's F1 car in a driving simulator. Respect to the drivers. Hard to keep that thing in control at over 200mph while approaching a curve/chicane with other cars congesting the track.

View from my hotel room:
Ferrari World and Yas Marina Circuit West Grandstand.
Home of the Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix and the Abu Dhabi Triathlon bike course.















Formula Rossa
World's fastest roller coaster.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> On the auction block next month: The bike so cool I named my Maglite after it, _Easy Rider_'s Captain America; expected to fetch up to $1.2 million.



So, which Captain America bike is that? The one that survived filming, or the one put together from the destroyed version's parts?


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

"It's not a motorcycle baby. It's a chopper."

~ Chance


----------



## kwak

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> It's not a motorcycle baby. It's a farm machinery."
> 
> ~ Chance



Corrected for you


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Sorry? I've no idea what you're on about.

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> So, which Captain America bike is that? The one that survived filming, or the one put together from the destroyed version's parts?



The one destroyed at the end of the film, then restored and owned by the director, then damaged in the recent car dealership fire I made a post about years ago. I'm guessing it's in fine condition if $1+ mil is a possibility.



BloodLust said:


> Ferrari World



Piu F40 e Scuderia, per favore!


----------



## StarHalo

Car&Driver's full reviews of the new Ford Mustang GT V8 manual and Ecoboost 4 cyl turbo auto. Spoiler alert: There's less than one second's difference in quarter mile times, and one MPH difference top speed.


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> Car&Driver's full reviews of the new Ford Mustang GT V8 manual and Ecoboost 4 cyl turbo auto. Spoiler alert: There's less than one second's difference in quarter mile times, and one MPH difference top speed.


The Mustang is a car I want to like, but can't. The retro styling does nothing for me; spare me any righteous indignation you may be feeling the urge to express upon hearing this. The interior on a co-worker's does less than nothing for me, although at least the current model year seems to have dialed things forward from _1970 re-imagined_. It seems a tad large for a 2-door with compliance-only rear seats. But the worst possible fault is the legroom - if I can't depend on domestic manufacturers to accommodate us allegedly taller-than-Europeans-and-Asians Americans, _but the Mazda 3 fits me just fine_, then it's simply game over.


----------



## yoyoman

1986 Porsche 911


----------



## think2x

Stopped by the dealership my friend works at, he handed me the keys to his demo. The Super Bee has got to be the fastest thing I have ever gotten behind the wheel of.


----------



## rioimmagina

think2x said:


> Stopped by the dealership my friend works at, he handed me the keys to his demo. The Super Bee has got to be the fastest thing I have ever gotten behind the wheel of.


Awesome!


----------



## StarHalo

Ahh, the Speciale is finally ready for California..


----------



## StarHalo

I prefer the Italian version of the Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ (especially with 910 HP..)


----------



## StarHalo

..and the F12 Berlinetta is West Coast-ready now, as well:


----------



## BloodLust

Taking the restored 1971 Corvette Stingray for a spin.


----------



## Monocrom

NICE!!!!!!


----------



## StarHalo

Something I hadn't considered regarding the new dual-motor/AWD Tesla D: The second motor of course means huge power gains over the stock model, but because the motor does the regeneration, adding a second means you're putting twice the energy back into the battery - _you still get the same range as with one powerplant_. That's a luxury sedan that silently goes 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and will still manage the usual ~275 miles. Truly a bold new era for cars..



BloodLust said:


> Taking the restored 1971 Corvette Stingray for a spin.



Shades of the Apollo Corvettes with that gold color, diggin' it.


----------



## BloodLust

The Stingray is what made me love the Corvettes when I was a kid.

The one I took for a spin was my uncle's which he restored and just sold. He's now restoring a classic Camaro. Not sure which year. It's his hobby to buy old cars, restore then sell them. Seems that he loves the restoration process more than keeping the vehicles.

By the way, I just saw Frank Darabont (original Walking Dead writer) in a classic Ford. Probably a Torino but not sure. Wasn't able to talk to him as I was in a hurry and wanted to say that his car and his work are cool! We were staying in the same hotel and found out later that there was a classic car convention in just the next town.


I'm looking forward to the Corvette C8 Zora for 2017.
www.caranddriver.com/features/c8-ch...m-the-heart-stopping-mid-engined-zora-feature

"we expect the C8 to soundly beat today’s Stingray Z51’s acceleration (zero to 60 in 3.9
seconds), its 181-mph top speed, and its fuel-economy bogies."


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> 2016 Mazda Miata; the engine is fully behind the front axle line, and I'm not seeing a turbo in the illustrations..



+


_new MX-5 Miata will have a 2.0-liter SKYACTIV-G (as in gasoline) engine. Mazda calls the engine “Ultra-high compression and lightweight.” _
^ torquenews.com


Other than the high compression, :thumbsdow


----------



## FroggyTaco

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Saw one of the new Mustangs at the track this weekend, in person it looks like a car with a turbo in it
> ..in other words, not an old school muscle car
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> This thing caught my eye, it had custom For Sale sign on the dash with a cell# & email address only, no price!
> _Very well_ turned out car, professional creation for sure ~ V8 in back (definitely not a crate motor though)


Isn't that a Mosler MT900?


----------



## orbital

FroggyTaco said:


> Isn't that a Mosler MT900?



+

It's an *RCR-Superlite Coupe*,, just figure out what displacement you want & how much gas you want forced into it ///:devil:

http://www.race-car-replicas.com/index.html


----------



## orbital

+

You have to see an R8 on track to appreciate & see how it's meant to be driven..

*R8 Competition*
_'5.2-liter V10 engine capable of pushing 570 horsepower down the pipes through its 7-speed S tronic and a sport exhaust system. To put that in perspective, the R8 Competition can deliver 0.60mph in just 3.2 seconds and a top speed of 199mph._' from *hngn.com*









There will only be 60 of these made, so hurry-hurry


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Hurry-hurry!? I can barely afford to look at its picture.

~ C. G.


----------



## 4sevens

Anyone going to sema this week?


----------



## orbital

+

_*Targa 4 GTS*_









..available in 7-speed manual

Personally, I'd take it over a GT3


----------



## 270winchester

That looks great. No idea why, but that Targa looks really resonates with me.


orbital said:


> +
> 
> _*Targa 4 GTS*_
> 
> ..available in 7-speed manual
> 
> Personally, I'd take it over a GT3



Do you mean you would take it over a GT3 coupe?


----------



## orbital

^

the current 991 GT3


----------



## yoyoman

Someone stole a headlight from my 1986 911 and I had to go to the Lausanne dealer to order new parts. They had a few of the new Targa models in the showroom and, I have to admit, the look appeals to me. Then I checked the weight - almost twice the weight of my little beast.


----------



## StarHalo

yoyoman said:


> Then I checked the weight - almost twice the weight of my little beast.



..but does yours have 430 horsepower?


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

yoyoman said:


> Someone stole a headlight from my 1986 911 and I had to go to the Lausanne dealer to order new parts. They had a few of the new Targa models in the showroom and, I have to admit, the look appeals to me. Then I checked the weight - almost twice the weight of my little beast.



My happiness that you own a 911 exceeds my annoyance that some pos stole your headlight. 

~ Chance


----------



## yoyoman

I put some packages in the trunk and when I closed it and saw that big gapping hole of an eye socket, you should have seen my face. I then stood there like a fool looking around the ground to see if it fell out. 

My commute is 50 kilometers each way. I work late and there is no traffic going home. I know where the speed cameras are - I break, pass the speed camera, downshift and take off. I smile at least twice a day and that's without 430 horsepower.


----------



## StarHalo

Looks like Hong Kong has a new landmark:


----------



## orbital

^

..and people get nervous about havn' a few flashlights

$$$$$$$$$$.$$


----------



## Monocrom

LOL

This hobby of ours' is one of the cheapest out there. Still.... some feel guilty anyway.


----------



## orbital

+

Ford GT going back to the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2016 {50 years since winning it outright}






..by the way, the EcoBoost V6 turbo won the Daytona 24hr couple weeks ago


----------



## orbital

+

More V6 turbos,
Cadillacs direct-injected baby..400hp/400torque


----------



## StarHalo

A whole evening of UK Top Gear and drinking Grapefruit Sculpin, Beer n' Gear; dunno what I'll do with myself now with Clarkson gone..


----------



## thedoc007

StarHalo said:


> A whole evening of UK Top Gear and drinking Grapefruit Sculpin, Beer n' Gear; dunno what I'll do with myself now with Clarkson gone..



Yeah, I was crushed when I heard the news. He is one of a kind...that show will never be the same again.

By the way, there is only one Top Gear, no need to specify UK. This is a car thread...everyone should already know that.


----------



## Str8stroke

I tried to like the US version. But its way too hokey pokey for my personal liking. I was looking for a show more dedicated to car info. I guess you could say, focused on the car. Not some silly challenge. But to each is own.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> A whole evening of UK Top Gear and drinking Grapefruit Sculpin, Beer n' Gear; dunno what I'll do with myself now with Clarkson gone..



Dude! For a second there, I thought you meant he was dead. Hopefully he'll be back.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Monocrom said:


> Dude! For a second there, I thought you meant he was dead. Hopefully he'll be back.



Back for round two. :devil: Ding Ding.

~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Back for round two. :devil: Ding Ding.
> 
> ~ Chance



That producer deserved it.


----------



## idleprocess

I find myself interested in the Focus RS. It will _invariably_ be far more than I want to spend.


----------



## orbital

idleprocess said:


> I find myself interested in the Focus RS. It will _invariably_ be far more than I want to spend.



+

Ford has a new performance/motorsports division,, things are looking good


Turbocharged 4wd stuff will always be :devil:________> this is from 30 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtR5OOHZSp4


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> I find myself interested in the Focus RS. It will _invariably_ be far more than I want to spend.



Why that over the STI? 

The last time I was at a local car dealership, they had a well-kept gray Mitsu Evo up front; closer inspection revealed paddle shifters and a humble little "MR" badge. It's not every day you see a functional diffuser on a used car lot..


----------



## ven

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Ford has a new performance/motorsports division,, things are looking good
> 
> 
> Turbocharged 4wd stuff will always be :devil:________> this is from 30 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtR5OOHZSp4




WOW the memories,until the rs200 ended the........well endless power fight...............never the same imo


----------



## jabe1

StarHalo said:


> Why that over the STI?



Or a Golf R?


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> Why that over the STI?


I've grown a bit un-fond of the WRX STI's appearance over the years and don't pretend to be interested in rally. I also couldn't fit into one last time I tried; hoping that Ford hasn't decided to screw us tall fellas with the RS.



jabe1 said:


> Or a Golf R?


Meh.



I'm really more interested in a reasonably-priced decently-performing RWD car that's *not* the FR-S/BR-Z.


----------



## rioimmagina

Do not underestimate the Golf R. That's a serious ride. The VW 2L turbo is a reference here in Europe. Lot of torque and push til the end. Coupled with double clutch DSG gearbox and four wheel drive transmission make it very pleasant to drive, whatever the pace. Plus VW quality and finish.
Cool cool ride!


----------



## FroggyTaco

rioimmagina said:


> Do not underestimate the Golf R. That's a serious ride. The VW 2L turbo is a reference here in Europe. Lot of torque and push til the end. Coupled with double clutch DSG gearbox and four wheel drive transmission make it very pleasant to drive, whatever the pace. Plus VW quality and finish.
> Cool cool ride!



Please don't tell me your advertising VW quality as a plus. Finish, sure but not quality. Go spend some time on VwVortex & TDIClub & just read all the tragic sadness that is still occurring with regards to reliability. Or reference Consumer Reports or TrueDelta for some independent perspectives.


----------



## rioimmagina

FroggyTaco said:


> Please don't tell me your advertising VW quality as a plus. Finish, sure but not quality. Go spend some time on VwVortex & TDIClub & just read all the tragic sadness that is still occurring with regards to reliability. Or reference Consumer Reports or TrueDelta for some independent perspectives.


I see your point. My experience says, however, that whatever make you pick, you will find some people complaining about quality, reliability and flaws of a specific model or series of that make.
I drive a Renault Megane RS. That's outstanding bang for the bucks. But, when you compare it to a VW, you see the differences. Materials, assembly, ergonomy, software... in one word, quality. You can always get an unfortunate specimen of a given model and that sucks. Golfs are best seller, meaning, there are hundreds of thousand in the street. Some might be flawed and owners are rightfully angry. 
How many times we heard of faulty HDS? Still, find one individual claiming that these aren't quality lights...


----------



## StarHalo

The WRX is a Consumer Reports "Recommended" buy, perhaps the most reliable force-induction road car ever made. But yeah, small rental car with a hood scoop, I get that..



idleprocess said:


> I'm really more interested in a reasonably-priced decently-performing RWD car that's *not* the FR-S/BR-Z.



Saw a Chevy SS parked at the coffee shop the other day, made me happy. A competent family sedan with pleasant styling and the engine from a Corvette, where do I sign..


----------



## FroggyTaco

rioimmagina said:


> I see your point. My experience says, however, that whatever make you pick, you will find some people complaining about quality, reliability and flaws of a specific model or series of that make.
> I drive a Renault Megane RS. That's outstanding bang for the bucks. But, when you compare it to a VW, you see the differences. Materials, assembly, ergonomy, software... in one word, quality. You can always get an unfortunate specimen of a given model and that sucks. Golfs are best seller, meaning, there are hundreds of thousand in the street. Some might be flawed and owners are rightfully angry.
> How many times we heard of faulty HDS? Still, find one individual claiming that these aren't quality lights...



Good points. And in retrospect a lot has to do with your individual tolerances to various car attributes/faults. Just like lights some weigh performance higher than reliability or bling over timeless looks, etc. My bias towards reliability is probably showing through.


----------



## rioimmagina

FroggyTaco said:


> Good points. And in retrospect a lot has to do with your individual tolerances to various car attributes/faults. Just like lights some weigh performance higher than reliability or bling over timeless looks, etc. My bias towards reliability is probably showing through.


Indeed, indeed. When I bought my car, I went for performance. The drawbacks are the creaking interiors, the approximative couplings, the fantasious logic of the automatic wipers, the rustic clima and so on... Still looks fancy, though.
Most buy Audi and VW for the value and the long mileage. 
This year i was at the Geneva auto show.
The show itself is quite boring (no demos, no action, very swiss [emoji13] ), but you can touch and enter in many cars...
I was in some of the new Audis... Price tags against performance are brutal (you can hit the 100k euros veeeery easily) but you see the quality just shutting a door or checking the couplings. The infotainement only is sci-fi stuff.
Then i went in the new Impreza Sti. Oh boy. Plasticky, at least. The Evo is even worst. The seats come straight from a Fiat Panda... The dashboard? No comment. However, you get rally car performance for the price of an A3...


----------



## recDNA

What is the quietest, smoothest, land yacht that sells for under 40k?


----------



## BloodLust

There aren't a lot of choices where I'm from so others will have more choices for you.
I'm liking the Mazda 6 though. You'll still have a lot of change left over.


----------



## StarHalo

recDNA said:


> What is the quietest, smoothest, land yacht that sells for under 40k?



Pre-owned late-model Lincoln Town Car; only about half of your asking price and unequalled in land yacht status versus any current production car..


----------



## orbital

^

Unreal, I was going to say Lincoln Continental before you posted SH.
even did a search on its last year, I believe its 2002

Find a mint one, you'll dig it,


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> Pre-owned late-model Lincoln Town Car; only about half of your asking price and unequalled in land yacht status versus any current production car..


*And* _Raylan Givens_ drives one.


----------



## recDNA

orbital said:


> ^
> 
> Unreal, I was going to say Lincoln Continental before you posted SH.
> even did a search on its last year, I believe its 2002
> 
> Find a mint one, you'll dig it,



Looks like something the Feds would drive. I like it.

Unfortunately, since I have no skills nor time to run back and forth to the shop I need something new.


----------



## StarHalo

recDNA said:


> Looks like something the Feds would drive. I like it.
> 
> Unfortunately, since I have no skills nor time to run back and forth to the shop I need something new.



The A-number-one choice of limo companies and executive business cars.

Be aware that the very raison d'être of the Town Cars and Roadmasters no longer exists in auto manufacturing; these are cars meant to completely isolate the occupants from external existence entirely - no road feel, no driving dynamics, nothing. Modern cars fall on a spectrum that is Toyota on one side and BMW on the other, always somewhere between appliance and touring racer, but never floaty, never as disconnected as the old cars.

That said, my best guess in your price range would be a current Toyota 4Runner; Toyota serenity and over-amped power steering plus SUV numbness, very close to old-school yacht-ness..


----------



## thedoc007

StarHalo said:


> Be aware that the very raison d'être of the Town Cars and Roadmasters no longer exists in auto manufacturing; these are cars meant to completely isolate the occupants from external existence entirely - no road feel, no driving dynamics, nothing. Modern cars fall on a spectrum that is Toyota on one side and BMW on the other, always somewhere between appliance and touring racer, but never floaty, never as disconnected as the old cars.



Well, I would have to disagree a bit with that statement. Those type of cars do still exist...but not in any reasonable price range. Maybach, Rolls-Royce, and Bentley still make land yachts, for example...I'm sure there are a few others. But they START at $100k or more (way more in many cases)...so they are not accessible to the masses, as the Crown Vic/Town Car was for so many years.


----------



## orbital

recDNA said:


> Looks like something the Feds would drive. I like it.
> 
> Unfortunately, since I have no skills nor time to run back and forth to the shop I need something new.



+

Take a look at the *2015 Ford Taurus SE* ~ won't have overly stiff suspension // under $30K


----------



## Grizzman

It's been a few years, but my previous manager's Avalon didn't seem to have a suspension much softer than the Camry, which is not much softer than an Accord.

If they're anything like they were a few years ago, the best bet may be the Ford Taurus. The Chrysler 300 may be an option. 

Each domestic manufacturer only makes one large car, so it shouldn't take you very long to take a test drive in all of them, and make the decision yourself.


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Changchung




----------



## StarHalo

Changchung said:


> [Huracán]



Lovely; haven't been to the coast lately where I'd finally get to see one on the street. Somebody dropped by the local outdoor shopping mall in a Verde Ithaca/pearl lime green Murciélago Roadster, there was a crowd gathered at it both times I walked by..


----------



## buddyrohr

StarHalo said:


> Pre-owned late-model Lincoln Town Car; only about half of your asking price and unequalled in land yacht status versus any current production car..


agreed. ford was the last company to keep doing body-on-frame and it does make a difference. it is why the crown vic is a popular police car. the cadillacs have a much better powertrain but the ford/lincoln ride is clearly superior. theyre slow though and the 4.6 is POS technology.


----------



## orbital

+

only 100 Shelby GT350 will be built==
500 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque








other *higher performance *versions will bring the total to around 250


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> other *higher performance *versions will bring the total to around 250



C'mon GT40 engine + wide body kit..


----------



## orbital

^
*
sure, Ford would have to call it Shelby GT214 Turbo*


____________________________________________
btw, Cadillac is fully invested w/ their V6 turbo in Pirelli World Challenge racing.
The ATS-_V_.R is full FIA GT3 spec, I'll see that series at Road America the end of next month

really horny cars in that series!!


----------



## chipwillis

Love this car. Mabe I'll get to stop one for speeding, that's as close as I'll get to one. Been wanting a Porsche since I was 11.





RBR said:


> My neighbour showed up with one last weekend, nice croaky roaring sound.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> RBR


----------



## StarHalo

chipwillis said:


> Love this car. Mabe I'll get to stop one for speeding, that's as close as I'll get to one. Been wanting a Porsche since I was 11.



First gen Boxsters go for under $10K..


----------



## RUSH FAN




----------



## StarHalo

RUSH FAN said:


> [Testarossa]



It _never_ gets old..

Speaking of that, I think the production version of the Glickenhaus 003 is just about perfect, would prefer to be seen in this over any current production supercar:


----------



## FroggyTaco

^
Kinda looks like a C7 & MT900 got tangled up & someone re-assembeled one car out of the pieces.


----------



## kwak

RUSH FAN said:


>



Great "red head" trip video here


----------



## idleprocess

It's always puzzled me that the average American male has such an exetensive knowledge of exotic sports cars that are largely inaccessible. The few that get the chance to drive one will do so under rather ... constrained ... circumstances such as a rental with severe terms or a wealthy acquaintance.

I enjoy Top Gear on occasion and have watched more than a few YouTube videos on the he subject, but I know it's highly unlikely that I'll ever drive - to say nothing of own - a supercar costing more than my house. I understand the appeal (just watch TV or movies or play video games) but don't understand the persuit to the point of spending hours reading up on them or watching every Top Gear segment ... nor why people that have by and large never driven these things have such strong opinions on them.


----------



## StarHalo

Well my knowledge of pedestrian beaters is voluminous, but I'm not sure everyone wants to hear about the nuances of seat hip height and dollars-per-mile..


----------



## RUSH FAN

Hi:

I understand what you're saying. I'm close to 50. I grew up in the 80's reading Car and Driver, Road and Track, Automobile magazine. My buddies and I in high school would always read the latest issues in the back row of my classes. It became a "guy thing". It was just fun! Back then, it was just cars, girls, and having fun!

Fast track to today. I am not a wealthy man. I would be considered a solid middle class gentleman. I have a family. But I still like to see the exotic sports cars zooming down the freeways every now and then!

Cheers, Rush



idleprocess said:


> It's always puzzled me that the average American male has such an exetensive knowledge of exotic sports cars that are largely inaccessible. The few that get the chance to drive one will do so under rather ... constrained ... circumstances such as a rental with severe terms or a wealthy acquaintance.
> 
> I enjoy Top Gear on occasion and have watched more than a few YouTube videos on the he subject, but I know it's highly unlikely that I'll ever drive - to say nothing of own - a supercar costing more than my house. I understand the appeal (just watch TV or movies or play video games) but don't understand the persuit to the point of spending hours reading up on them or watching every Top Gear segment ... nor why people that have by and large never driven these things have such strong opinions on them.


----------



## orbital

+

I grew up around racing, my father raced, my brother a driving instructor.
to guess the number of hours I'v spent at racetracks is impossible

Personally, I'v seen nearly every sports car imaginable _and_ its full blown race version on track, in full anger.
in both professional & am racing.
...I can confidently explain their strengths & weaknesses.

Just today at the track, I walked right up to a brand new McLaren 650S Spider in that nuts orange color.
The cockpit was incredibly exquisite dark carbon fiber w/ a plastic covering still on the driver seat.
Was I ready to grab my check book?,,, hell no, 
but I did take some pics *while* *being in awe of a functional, visceral piece of art*.


----------



## RUSH FAN

Saw this parked at a hospital. 
Reminded me of watching the old Miami Vice shows from the 80's. 
The guy in the tan shirt in the background was the owner of the Testarossa. 
He didn't take too kindly of me taking pictures of his car LOL! 



RUSH FAN said:


>


----------



## StarHalo

Something you'll be seeing everywhere soon: The Caddy ATS frame with the Stingray engine in it. Your local Chevy dealer's bitchin' Camaro now makes 455 horsepower, more than the original Corvette ZR1. The pony car is dead, long live the serious sports car..


----------



## FroggyTaco

idleprocess said:


> It's always puzzled me that the average American male has such an exetensive knowledge of exotic sports cars that are largely inaccessible. The few that get the chance to drive one will do so under rather ... constrained ... circumstances such as a rental with severe terms or a wealthy acquaintance.
> 
> I enjoy Top Gear on occasion and have watched more than a few YouTube videos on the he subject, but I know it's highly unlikely that I'll ever drive - to say nothing of own - a supercar costing more than my house. I understand the appeal (just watch TV or movies or play video games) but don't understand the persuit to the point of spending hours reading up on them or watching every Top Gear segment ... nor why people that have by and large never driven these things have such strong opinions on them.



I hear ya....however driving a Ferrari 360 Spyder as fast as I dared on surface streets is an amazing experience.


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Lite_me

The video was removed from youtube.


----------



## orbital

^
*
lol! *:laughing:

different story when they want to stop or take an exit quick


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> only 100 Shelby GT350 will be built==
> 500 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque



526 hp, 429 lb-ft from a 5.2L V8 with a _flat plane crank_; the big dog Mustang will sound like ..a Ferrari?!

Edit: Found a vid; sounds a bit like a Ferrari with straight pipes, more edge:


----------



## orbital

+

no 900hp,, 
no electronic driver assist crap,, 
no multi-mode ecu.

Cars like this grab the very most attention during big race weekends.







1958 Lancia Aurelia


----------



## tempestv6

Test drove my friend's BMW i8, it looks better than it drives.


----------



## StarHalo

Lotus 3-Eleven: 450hp, <2000 lbs, paddle shift, road version includes passenger seat. Know that we have always been down, down..


----------



## Monocrom

I'm genuinely torn between loving its performance or hating its looks.


----------



## StarHalo

Further proof that Car & Driver is the awesomest of everything ever..


----------



## orbital

+

*1980s* 

Car Year Tested ​ 1/4-mile (sec @ mph)​ 0-60 mph ​1.) Porsche 959 1987​ 12.0 @ 116​ 3.6​2.) Ruf Porsche 911 Turbo 1988​ 12.5 @ 112​ 4.3​3.) Callaway Corvette Sport 1988​ 12.8 @ 118​ 4.6​4.) Porsche/DP 935 1983​ 12.8 @ 112​ 4.6​5.) Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 1989​ 12.8 @ 111​ 4.5​6.) Autokraft Ltd. AC Mark IV (replica) 1984​ 12.8 @ 106​ 4.4​7.) Gale Banks Pontiac Trans Am 1983​ 12.9 @ 119​ 5.2​8.) Piontek Sport Tech (homebuilt) 1989​ 13.0 @ 109​ 4.5​9.) Brandenburg Lister Jaguar XJ-S 1988​ 13.1 @ 112​ 4.8​10.) Ferrari GTO 1985​ 13.1 @ 112​ 5.0​


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> *1980s*



(you're missing a Ford..)


----------



## rioimmagina

Outstanding the Ford! What is the model?


----------



## StarHalo

rioimmagina said:


> Outstanding the Ford! What is the model?



A 1986 Ford RS200 Evolution, 1 of 24, but was indeed available at your local [British] Ford dealer. 2.1L 4-cyl and a monster turbo, 580 hp to all four wheels, 0-60 in 3.07 seconds.


----------



## rioimmagina

Ahhh yes! Sure I've driven it in some videogames... I love the concept (like the Lancia Delta S4) and Ford is definitely my favourite make among the US car manufacturers.
How was the price tag?


----------



## StarHalo

The non-Evo version of the RS cost more than the Ferrari of the day, so they knew how much it was worth. The rare Evo versions sell/auction today in the $200K range. Some of these examples take advantage of the tune-friendly rally design and are engine-mapped to ~900 HP.


----------



## orbital

+

both the RS200 & 959 were built for Group B spec (that's why 200 959s' were built) but Porsche was a bit too late to the party..
..then Group B quickly died

the best rally vid you can currently get is *Greatest Years of Rallying 80s*


----------



## rioimmagina

Guys, you're the encyclopedia of cars!


----------



## StarHalo

This week's _This American Life_ podcast is a frank and straightforward history of the decline of the American car in the 70s-80s. I knew bits and pieces but I've never heard everyone from all sides just sit down and recount everything openly and honestly, pretty shocking really. Highly recommended.


----------



## magellan

They must have mentioned Chrysler's troubles.

Chrysler was a paradox. The articles I remember reading at the time mentioned how Chrysler's R & D division invented the emissions distributer and many other innovations the details of which I no longer remember, except that their military diesel turbines (which we used in our tanks) were considered the most advanced in the world. But they couldn't build a decent car.


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> This week's _This American Life_ podcast is a frank and straightforward history of the decline of the American car in the 70s-80s. I knew bits and pieces but I've never heard everyone from all sides just sit down and recount everything openly and honestly, pretty shocking really. Highly recommended.



Podcast #561?


----------



## StarHalo

FroggyTaco said:


> Podcast #561?



Correct, titled _NUMMI 2015_


----------



## Monocrom

magellan said:


> They must have mentioned Chrysler's troubles.
> 
> Chrysler was a paradox. The articles I remember reading at the time mentioned how Chrysler's R & D division invented the emissions distributer and many other innovations the details of which I no longer remember, except that their military diesel turbines (which we used in our tanks) were considered the most advanced in the world. But they couldn't build a decent car.



It's a lot like someone with a very successful catering company deciding to open up a full fledged restaurant.... Then having no clue why the place is losing money every month.


----------



## magellan

Good point.


----------



## magellan

*




Re: Cars, Man*

_



Originally Posted by *idleprocess* 


It's always puzzled me that the average American male has such an exetensive knowledge of exotic sports cars that are largely inaccessible. The few that get the chance to drive one will do so under rather ... constrained ... circumstances such as a rental with severe terms or a wealthy acquaintance.

I enjoy Top Gear on occasion and have watched more than a few YouTube videos on the he subject, but I know it's highly unlikely that I'll ever drive - to say nothing of own - a supercar costing more than my house. I understand the appeal (just watch TV or movies or play video games) but don't understand the persuit to the point of spending hours reading up on them or watching every Top Gear segment ... nor why people that have by and large never driven these things have such strong opinions on them.

_

I hear ya....however driving a Ferrari 360 Spyder as fast as I dared on surface streets is an amazing experience.​

Travis

Various Neutral Tinted Goodness.​


I know it's a guy thing, but I myself have never been interested in these super cars for whatever reason. Even if I could afford one, I wouldn't buy it because I probably wouldn't appreciate it.

Sometimes I like looking at the photos just for the design and aesthetics, but that's about it.


----------



## StarHalo

Fully appreciating it: Ferrari 488 Spider, with _folding hardtop_:


----------



## StarHalo

Jeremy Clarkson, James May, and Richard Hammond have signed a deal to appear in an all new car show series on Amazon Prime. You're welcome.


----------



## orbital

+

4-door Z06  ____quarter mile in 11.6







===== *over* 200mph top speed


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Jeremy Clarkson, James May, and Richard Hammond have signed a deal to appear in an all new car show series on Amazon Prime. You're welcome.




Looks like they just gave the middle finger to the producers of Top Gear.


----------



## Kestrel

StarHalo said:


> This week's _This American Life_ podcast is a frank and straightforward history of the decline of the American car in the 70s-80s. I knew bits and pieces but I've never heard everyone from all sides just sit down and recount everything openly and honestly, pretty shocking really. Highly recommended.





FroggyTaco said:


> Podcast #561?


Thanks for that; I just downloaded it and will be listening this weekend. :thumbsup:


----------



## orbital

+

Taking 'being late to the party' to a whole new level,
though it's now bringing _goodies_ under each arm...Twin Turbos


----------



## StarHalo

Dodge stuffed the Hellcat engine into a Jeep Grand Cherokee and are calling the running example "Trackhawk"; the technical detail you might have missed is that this is the first AWD Hellcat - expect impossible acceleration numbers. Still not even a mention of a Ram Hellcat..


----------



## orbital

+

_*Got electric?*_






Porsche Mission E :: promising 600 horsepower, a 0-62mph time "under" 3.5 seconds, a top speed of over 250 km/h (about 155mph), and a total range of over 500 kilometers (311 miles)
*....can store an 80 percent charge in just 15 minutes*<<


----------



## idleprocess

orbital said:


> +
> 
> _*Got electric?*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porsche Mission E :: promising 600 horsepower, a 0-62mph time "under" 3.5 seconds, a top speed of over 250 km/h (about 155mph), and a total range of over 500 kilometers (311 miles)
> *....can store an 80 percent charge in just 15 minutes*<<



Read about that this morning. Supposedly has a 95kwh battery pack. If they can dump 80% of that in 15 minutes that means the station must deliver *net* ~304kw over those 15 minutes. That's a heck of a lot of juice.

Edit: Seems I conflated an Audi concept that has the 95kwh pack. No battery specifics on the Porsche concept, but it's apt to be similar.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Are those suicide doors? Cool!

~ C.G.


----------



## Monocrom

An electric Porsche and it's got four doors??.... Let me know when the brand stops urinating on, and violating it's history and pedigree. :thumbsdow


----------



## orbital

^

Porsche won outright this years 24hr of LeMans with its turbocharged V4, hybrid electric system measured in megajoules
..vvery un rear engined Folkswaagon






_*things have revolutions..*_:wave:


----------



## orbital

+

GT3 race spec version of the Ford GT
it'll make a full campaign starting 24hr Daytona // Jan. 2016






...good luck buying one


----------



## Changchung

My favority Porsche ever...

959


----------



## StarHalo

Bearing in mind that Jeremy Clarkson's/Hamster's/Capt Slow's new Amazon.com show will be the most well-funded television program in history, it's occurred to me that they could do the P1/918/LaFerrari comparison by just purchasing the missing LaFerrari. And today we get this picture from the first day of filming the new show - look closely..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

I'm thinking somebody loves his job. 

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Ferrari F12tdf; 770 HP to the rear wheels, but all four wheels steer:


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> Ferrari F12tdf; 770 HP to the rear wheels, but all four wheels steer:



Am I the only one who thinks that looks like a Corvette from that angle?


----------



## Monocrom

FroggyTaco said:


> Am I the only one who thinks that looks like a Corvette from that angle?




Nope, not the only one.


----------



## orbital

^

Just pick up a mint C6 6 speed for 1/50th the price and beat the snaat out of it

_*the $2.7 mil for the Ferrari includes a catering event with custom doilies *_:shakehead


----------



## Monocrom

I'm just glad the side profile was posted. That thing is not only overpriced but hideous from the back. Mr. Ferrari once said his customers were idiots for buying his cars. He had nothing but absolute contempt for them. For him, it was simply a way to finance his racing passion.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ I like the Honda Prelude. Black

F to R: 93, 01, 97, 91Not shown is another black 91 and a red 91.




^^ My son likes 'em too. Actually he got me started.




^^ The 97 Type SH restoration is on hold while I induldge in flashaholism for a while.


----------



## ven

Prelude.......that brings back memories,so close to buying one many years back, iirc rear wheel steer...........does my memory serve me correct?

Cracking car..........vtec,one of the best engines ever imo..........


----------



## StarHalo

Your basic $3K mail-order supercharger kit for the Prelude will get it to nudge the 300hp mark, squarely competitive with the current Ford ST, Mazdaspeed 3, Cooper S..


----------



## ven

Deleted-wont show


----------



## bykfixer

ven said:


> Prelude.......that brings back memories,so close to buying one many years back, iirc rear wheel steer...........does my memory serve me correct?
> 
> Cracking car..........vtec,one of the best engines ever imo..........



It was called 4ws. In the 3rd gen it was all mechanical. Yet added 10% to the price tag but 5% fun so new car buyers largely ignored them. These days they're really sought after.
In Europe they went with electronics in the 4ws system with some 4th gens and some 5th gens, but expensive and unreliable sensors made it so most are now converted to 2ws or owners are still to this day trying to get the bugs out.

And yes..that vtec changed the world.
These days we've discovered the vtec from japanese accord station wagons give all that upper rpm goodness with a lot more torque getting there. They were made for low rpm turning cars with automatic transmissions. Top end is about same, but a lot of head snapping going on at take offs. 



StarHalo said:


> Your basic $3K mail-order supercharger kit for the Prelude will get it to nudge the 300hp mark, squarely competitive with the current Ford ST, Mazdaspeed 3, Cooper S..


Eh, I have friends with super chargers. Something is almost always 'popping' somewhere in the motor from the boost. No thanks. 
Bolt on Mugen parts (if you can find/afford them) and a tune makes the 2.2 breath much better. 
A friend-o-mine got 25 more (untuned) horsies to the wheels using a mugen header and twin loop with a Type S intake. That's it. 

I'm going the plain ole stock with a few factory upgrades like euro ashtrays. A few tasteful mods and a couple of innovations have taken place on the 97 so far.


Stuff like...



^^ turning this...




^^ to this




^^ how about some 3d center caps?




^^ or stealth checkered dead pedal?




^^ this




^^ to this




^^ some interior mods, perhaps?




^^ my favorite mod so far




^^ this car is next to be restored.
It's in good shape now and every sticker from the factory is still there...including the 'do not remove' sticker on the sunroof. 
It's a black n tan 5 speed that we have all orginal parts being swapped in good to better...
including a rare factory cd player. 
Car was garaged until 2011. It went into mothballs when I found it while my son and I fix up some others first. 

In 014 we took a car with a blown engine and swapped in a motor from a japanese station wagon with a good clutch etc and removed about 50 lbs from the car while replacing brakes and suspension items. She's a sleeper.


----------



## StarHalo

What car is this?


----------



## orbital

^

Lancia Monte Carlo


.. the *beta Montecarlo* is one of my favorite race cars of all time (a GT prototype)


----------



## StarHalo

Ah ha, I thought I recognized the Lancia grill, just didn't know they had sold anything here. The mid-engine/rear-drive layout sounds fun, 81hp not so much. The dowdy brown color and "high tech" wheels make it look generic Japanese, definitely needs a coat of Rosso and some sportier rolling gear..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

The front end reminds me of a duck billed platypus. :thumbsdow

~ Chance


----------



## Launch Mini

Or is that the Lancia Beta. I was wracking my brain yesterday as I've seen one of those years ago.


----------



## orbital

Launch Mini said:


> Or is that the Lancia Beta. I was wracking my brain yesterday as I've seen one of those years ago.



+

It could be either a Series 1 Montecarlo _or_ Scorpion from nearly 40 years ago,, same car I think 

The Group 5 Beta Montecarlo from the very early 80s', was the beginning of Lancia's insane turbocharging in racing... especially rallying (see Group B)


----------



## gswitter

orbital said:


> It could be either a Series 1 Montecarlo _or_ Scorpion from nearly 40 years ago,, same car I think



I passed one badged as a Scorpion on the freeway in San Jose recently. Same brown color.


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> The front end reminds me of a duck billed platypus. :thumbsdow



Oh but it only took them a few years to sort it completely - now _that's_ an Italian car:


----------



## chmsam

Google "Lancia Group B video" for some fun.

The rally cars of that era weren't called "killer B's" without a good reason. 

Amazing and very dangerous.

Under 2000 lbs. Approximately 480 hp for the Lancia S4 Delta Intergrale. 

World Rally Championship in those days was something. Still ultra cool today but nothing like those cars will ever be seen again. 

Today rallyists say that pavement is for sissies but those cars were scary.


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Oh but it only took them a few years to sort it completely - now _that's_ an Italian car:



+

You nailed it!
*Looks like a low to the ground Integrale_*:thumbsup:*
*
That's exactly the type of car that people surround when at the track, even when some supercharged Mustang is parked 10 feet away


----------



## StarHalo

God bless SEMA, this just about makes up for the 70's entirely:


----------



## Monocrom

:huh:

Me like!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## StarHalo

Nissan Sway concept; where was this design when they came up with the Juke?!


----------



## Monocrom

It kinda looks like a giant mouse.

To be honest, I'm not a fan of the new funky face design that Nissan has adopted, starting with the 2015 Nissan Maxima re-design. The older look of the previous model had classic, restrained good-looks that made it a car for adults. The new model looks like something a spoiled punk kid would drive. One of my neighbors bought one. It looks worse in real life than it does in the commercial.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

If Mighty Mouse drove a car, ^ That's the car he'd drive. The Mousemobile. :laughing:

~ Chance


----------



## idleprocess

At least it's not the first iteration of the GT-R, with styling inspired by the last five years of Sport Compact Car magazine covers.


----------



## orbital

+

_ Boxster & Cayman 718_ 
One of the best handling cars ever made will now have a turbocharged flat4 

.. can't wait till the shootout w/ the normally aspirated.
place your bets


----------



## Monocrom

BTW guys, a few days back I saw the new Nissan Maxima coming up behind me on the expressway. The guy wasn't tailgating. Wasn't being obnoxious. Just behind me. And OH MY GOSH!.... It's even worse on the road than standing still!! 

It literally looked like a blue version of Spongebob Squarepants running towards me with his super happy, great big, toothy grin. I swear that's what it looked like! Did any executive at Nissan go down to the track to watch the car being put through its paces?? I honestly would say, "No."


----------



## lightlover

Monocrom said:


> ............. OH MY GOSH!... ... super happy, great big, toothy grin. ... that's what it looked like! ...


*
Monocrom, *you've cracked me up!

I can relate to your (groovy!) description ...

(Don't necessarily agree, but ... LoL!)


----------



## Monocrom

I'll give credit where it's due. If you want a *happy* car, get the new Maxima. The perfect car for Goofy Goobers.


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> _Boxster & Cayman 718_
> One of the best handling cars ever made will now have a turbocharged flat4
> 
> .. can't wait till the shootout w/ the normally aspirated.
> place your bets



Probably same performance numbers with better mileage. I just wonder if it'll sound like a WRX..



Monocrom said:


> I'll give credit where it's due. If you want a *happy* car, get the new Maxima. The perfect car for Goofy Goobers.



Meanwhile in California:


----------



## mcbrat

old school...


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Meanwhile in California:



LOL.... The perfect car for those who want *angry.*


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> LOL.... The perfect car for those who want *angry.*



Which is strange because it's the one car that's cleaner than the Prius. But yeah, Assassin Vacuum Cleaner 2000..


----------



## BarryG

mcbrat said:


> old school...



Now that is nice!!! I love the classics. 




Barry


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Which is strange because it's the one car that's cleaner than the Prius. But yeah, Assassin Vacuum Cleaner 2000..




Well, if you were forced to be a Vegan; you'd be angry too.


----------



## Stress_Test

mcbrat said:


> old school...



Sweet Firebird there mcbrat!! 


More old school: My dad's '61 Corvette. This was a shot from around about 1990 I think. It's got the 283 small-block with a 4-speed. Corvettes sure have changed a lot, haven't they!


----------



## StarHalo

Your kid may be spoiled, but at least you're imparting good taste..


----------



## Stress_Test

Happened to see this in a store parking lot across the street. Can anyone identify it? I'm thinking a Plymouth/Dodge of some sort but I don't recognize it. 

(and what's up with the rotating light thingy on the roof?!)


----------



## jeffb

It looks like an AMC Javelin? Only an "old guy" would remember [emoji41] No clue re: rotating light, not original equipment!!


----------



## fivemega

jeffb said:


> It looks like an AMC Javelin?



American Motors Company


----------



## Stress_Test

Good call on AMC. I didn't think about them. I've only ever seen just one in person, at a car show, which I think was an AMX. 


Anyway, here's another oldie that I saw a while back. This is a 1966 Corvette that I ran across in a parking lot. Not top flight show-car status but looked like a very nice condition daily driver.


----------



## mm1987

That corvette is awesome!


----------



## Stress_Test

mm1987 said:


> That corvette is awesome!



Yep, the mid-years are my favorite! (1963-1967).

Too bad they're so expensive now!


----------



## mm1987

These really are the best years


----------



## orbital

+

You can buy recreations
..the brakes will be immeasurably better 








*Shelby G.T.350CR*


----------



## StarHalo

All the recreations of the Shelby Cobra 427 Car & Driver has ever tested had significantly better performance numbers than the original (an important bit of info now that the dead stock Camaro SS has the same straight-line numbers as the original Cobra..)


----------



## Stress_Test

I wouldn't buy a vintage Vette (or any vintage car) with the expectation that it perform up to today's standards, nor would I modify it in an attempt to make it perform as such. For me the fun is experiencing "the way it was" back in the day. 

I would, however, upgrade the brakes to modern disks on all four corners, with a dual circuit master cylinder system. I've had enough near-death experiences while trying to rely on 4-wheel drum brakes with no redundancy; a master cylinder failure which allows the pedal to go all the way to the floor when you try to stop for construction traffic on the interstate WILL get your attention. (the parking brake saved my butt)

If I were to drop the money on a mid-year vette, I'd get a small block / 4-speed coupe, drop a crate motor in it if the existing engine was tired, put about a 3.50 or 3.73 gears out back, and have fun!


----------



## bykfixer

Stress_Test said:


> Happened to see this in a store parking lot across the street. Can anyone identify it? I'm thinking a Plymouth/Dodge of some sort but I don't recognize it.
> 
> (and what's up with the rotating light thingy on the roof?!)



Javelin with an old road construction vehicle or fire truck warning light. Incan too ⊙▁⊙
Perhaps it belongs to a volunteer fireman who lives in a time warp.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> All the recreations of the Shelby Cobra 427 Car & Driver has ever tested had significantly better performance numbers than the original (an important bit of info now that the dead stock Camaro SS has the same straight-line numbers as the original Cobra..)




True. But who wants to be looking out of those gun-slits that GM has the sheer stones to call "windows."


----------



## Stress_Test

Monocrom said:


> True. But who wants to be looking out of those gun-slits that GM has the sheer stones to call "windows."



Definitely true. I read an early magazine review of the new Camaro and when I came to the statement along the lines of "If you're over 6 feet tall..." I knew I could pretty much stop reading anymore at that point about the car since I wouldn't be able to fit comfortably into it. Granted I've never sat in one but still, if the car rag guys are saying that from the start it's not a good sign for me. The fourth-gen F-body was pretty bad in that respect so I was somewhat disgusted that there should still be any complaints about interior space on a complete re-design of the car, when it's such a large car relatively speaking!

Whereas on the other hand, the '07 Mustang I've had for over six years now, I can fit into easily, wear a baseball cap and STILL have enough head room. Also plenty foot room, good sight lines backing up, etc etc. 

I just don't see how in this age of CAD computer modeling that any car company can SCREW UP interior design and ergonomics so badly. 

(and before anyone accuses me of being a Mustang fanboy, you should know that I really don't like the direction the Mustang has been going lately; it's just gotten heavier and heavier and I hate that the design team finally gave in to all the whining from magazine writers and put in an independent rear suspension. And now the GT is going for > $30k!!)


----------



## bykfixer

I liked Mustangs with trunks.

New ones don't have trunks. 

The coupe was a great car. But the masses seem to like the fastback better. 
They look pretty cool. But I prefered the versions with a trunk.




^^ my first one was similar




^^ same with 2nd

The first was an inline 6 with a cruis-a-matic 3 speed auto. But man was that thing fun to drive. It was a stripped down version that only weighed a bit over 1900#'s.
The 2nd was called a Colorado Special and had a hi-po 289, 4 on the floor and some tweaked suspension...oh and ac. It was also a fun car on the back roads. The gnarly-er the hair pins the more fun that car was. 

Owned each at different times. Sold both when it became impractical to just let them rot under a tree. 
Rust never sleeps.



^^ this is my current money pit.
Just as fun as that lightweight car, just as fast as that hi-po car and falling apart at least as fast as either of those Mustangs.


----------



## orbital

+

Mid engine & 6-speed manual


----------



## StarHalo

But the new 911's slightly larger headlights somehow fix everything, best-looking 911 since the 964..


----------



## bykfixer

^^ Ramones singing Spiderman theme plays in background while Mr. Owl shows the kid why it only takes 3 licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop. 

That's what pops in my mind looking at those headlights....but that's just me.


----------



## GLOCK18

Not a Hybrid


----------



## FroggyTaco

I love how that $250K "truck" is parked next to a 1980's backyard play structure.


----------



## StarHalo

The wife is watching a "million dollar homes" show on one of the formerly educational channels; they're showing Mr. Jackson's garage, of Barrett-Jackson - the centerpiece is a Bugatti Veyron that has a mere 13,500 miles on it, _making it the highest-mileage Veyron in the world._ So no one's driven a Veyron more than a few thousand miles..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

My best friend found a 2002 Lincoln Continental with 65,000 miles on it. He wanted it, but offered it to my mom first ........... She loves it. Sometimes, she even lets me drive. 

~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> The wife is watching a "million dollar homes" show on one of the formerly educational channels; they're showing Mr. Jackson's garage, of Barrett-Jackson - the centerpiece is a Bugatti Veyron that has a mere 13,500 miles on it, _making it the highest-mileage Veyron in the world._ So no one's driven a Veyron more than a few thousand miles..




In fairness, it's not exactly the ideal Daily Commuter.


----------



## Launch Mini

Here is a nice stretch of road to stretch the Veyron's legs. SOUND IS A MUST on this video, sound like a jet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytXI5Clz100


----------



## Minimoog

Here's a photo from Silverstone racing circuit. My grandfather used to love cars and driving, but he died a decade before I was born. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8ul47kmnwx6f0i/DSC_1572.JPG?dl=0


----------



## mm1987

That photo is amazing!


----------



## Minimoog

mm1987 said:


> That photo is amazing!



Isn't it! My grandad took the photo in the mid 1950's on Kodachrome and I scanned it.


----------



## StarHalo

Visited the beach today


----------



## bykfixer

Minimoog said:


> Here's a photo from Silverstone racing circuit. My grandfather used to love cars and driving, but he died a decade before I was born.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8ul47kmnwx6f0i/DSC_1572.JPG?dl=0





^^ my boss circa 1964


----------



## StarHalo

Taken over ~48 hours, Teslas definitely don't count when car spotting out here..











^If you can't see/aren't familiar with what the badge says there, it ends in the letter D - that means _dual motors_, *691hp*. Here's what that looks like in use:


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> Taken over ~48 hours, Teslas definitely don't count when car spotting out here..


They're rare in DFW. Saw a Roadster at Dallas Makerspace the other day, which is arguably one of the rarer modern cars on the road.


----------



## Minimoog

Here is my ride http://gallery.photo.net/photo/7930788-lg.jpg but I don't suppose they are well known outside Europe.


----------



## torchsarecool

Minimoog said:


> Here is my ride http://gallery.photo.net/photo/7930788-lg.jpg but I don't suppose they are well known outside Europe.



Or inside. Bet there's not many of those left in the UK. I think it's pretty cool. Always fancied a lada niva myself and one day will own one.


----------



## orbital

+

_* My whole life I drove an older car or truck...until now!:twothumbs

..looks just like this

*_





_*______________________________2017 Santa Fe Sport*_


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

orbital said:


> +
> 
> _* My whole life I drove an older car or truck...until now!:twothumbs
> 
> ..looks just like this
> 
> *_
> 
> _*______________________________2017 Santa Fe Sport*_



Congratulations O! That is one buff ride. I hope you enjoy it. :thumbsup: Have fun driving it ........ around. 

~ C.G.


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> _*My whole life I drove an older car or truck...until now!:twothumbs
> *_



I told my wife when we started looking at cars that the two I would not bother with were the Honda CR-V and the Toyota RAV4. Of all the cars we test drove, the two I liked best were ...the Honda CR-V and the Toyota RAV-4.

That mini-SUV design just makes more sense than the sedan or the truck, so much more space inside and so much less space outside..


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> That mini-SUV design just makes more sense than the sedan or the truck, so much more space inside and so much less space outside..


I'm convinced that most people drive trucks because they like the _image_ of trucks, not because they need to routinely haul or tow things often enough to justify them. I have a semi-monthly need to haul bulky things to a storage unit and make large purchases at Sam's/Costco and even then I'm not sure it really justifies either of the trucks I own _(short version on why I own two - one was a cash purchase and the other a gift of sorts)_.


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> I have a semi-monthly need to haul bulky things to a storage unit and make large purchases at Sam's/Costco and even then I'm not sure it really justifies either of the trucks I own



Our four-person family's Costco and recycling runs rarely require folding down the rear seats. The engine is pretty much Swiss-movement (especially compared to anything you could get in a compact truck,) and spends most of its time bored around town returning over 20 mpg. And I can't count the number of times I've pulled into a parking space coming close to the pole/tree in front, way too close, _ooo look out_, and then on getting out of the car and looking at the front ..nope, still a couple feet to go..


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> I told my wife when we started looking at cars that the two I would not bother with were the Honda CR-V and the Toyota RAV4. Of all the cars we test drove, the two I liked best were ...the Honda CR-V and the Toyota RAV-4.
> 
> That mini-SUV design just makes more sense than the sedan or the truck, so much more space inside and so much less space outside..



Did you try the Rav4 Hybrid?


----------



## StarHalo

FroggyTaco said:


> Did you try the Rav4 Hybrid?



No, just used ~'08-'10 4-cyls. Would gladly accept the mileage from the hybrid, but I don't think that the rational part of my mind would win out against the rest wanting the V6 rocketship..

The newer models have CVTs which I'd prefer for family car duty, makes for a much smoother drive.


----------



## fivemega

Minimoog said:


> Here is my ride http://gallery.photo.net/photo/7930788-lg.jpg but I don't suppose they are well known outside Europe.


*Not many eastern Bloc cars including Skoda are popular in States but well known in Russia.*


----------



## Nitroz

Here is my daily roller owned since 2000 with 298,000 and some change on the clock. I had to buy new wheels because the old ones cracked. Wheels usually outlast the car.  The new shoes are from a 2004 Maxima.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

The Lovely Mrs. Gardiner's new ride. 09 47,500 miles. 

~ Chance


----------



## Crazyeddiethefirst

Sweet ride for a very classy lady, I'm sure...


----------



## orbital

+*

an extra cherry for your ice cream sunday Chance*

..smart buy!!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Crazyeddiethefirst said:


> Sweet ride for a very classy lady, I'm sure...



Right you are, Eddie. We've been married 30 years. I tell people, "I married up, and have never forgotten that I did."




orbital said:


> +*
> 
> an extra cherry for your ice cream sunday Chance*
> 
> ..smart buy!!



Thanks O, I thought Cherry would be more so. My Car Guy accompanied the Mrs. and me and told me when we first found some little imperfections, "It's got 47,000 miles on it, it's gunna have a few rock chips in the front." 

I've no buyers remorse on day three, so it [email protected]@Ks like Cherry is a keeper. 

~ Chance


----------



## Crazyeddiethefirst

Congrats on 30 years, Chance! My bride & I just celebrated 34 years of marriage...it goes so fast....


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

34 years.  You're my hero. :twothumbs

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Did you choose that over the Lincoln, or is that also in the garage?


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> Did you choose that over the Lincoln, or is that also in the garage?



The Lincoln is in my mother's garage. She loves driving it. I looked for another one, but they're not readily available. Besides, I'm too young for one and I don't want to have to rub my fingers together when I'm driving it. :laughing:

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

+

Just saw over at my neighbor, the Porsche guy, now into American V8s'
has a brand new 2017 Shelby GT350!!

Brembo brakes/6-speed manual/high revving 324 cu.in. motor/really nice wheels
He has it in white & the car in person is way better than pictures

*Seriously;
it is the best preforming car per dollar on the planet, by a large margin!!!*







just like this_____________^


----------



## torchsarecool

The top of my grand espace. Unfortunately need a people carrier as i have 4 kids.
It does have a 3.5 v6 in it with 250bhp so its pretty quick for what it is. Not sure about USA where big engines are the norm but these are rare in the UK with this engine.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

orbital, are you and your neighbor friendly? Like you get a ride in all his new cars, friendly? :candle:

torchsarecool, isn't that the car the Pope rides around in, while he's standing and waving to the crowds? Just kidding. I'd love to see a picture showing the top open. Very nice.

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> orbital, are you and your neighbor friendly? Like you get a ride in all his new cars, friendly? :candle:
> 
> ~ Chance



+

I'd say good friends_,,_ I'll see if I can drive this one, seriously :devil:
..wondering if he traded his C7 for it straight up

He's not around that much because it's his cabin near me, in summer we hangout at the track together & other neighbor type stuff.


----------



## Mike S

Got the Turbo Regal running again.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Very cool, Mike! Very cool indeed. :twothumbs

~ Chance


----------



## FroggyTaco

Oh Man!!!

That doesn't look stock.

Any specs?


----------



## Mike S

Thanks guys, the build is still fairly mild. 

Stock bottom end 
Roller cam/roller rockers
Champion heads
GN1 intercooler
Ported intake manifold 
TA-49 turbo
Upgraded fuel system w/ methanol injection 
3" downpipe
Hooker exhaust

Hope to get it to the track soon. Shooting for an 11 second street car.


----------



## BarryG

Mike S said:


> Got the Turbo Regal running again.



Beautiful
Sexy
Classic

I like it!!!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Sometimes, even guys with the best job ever can have a bad day at work;

~ Chance


http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...28-prototype-just-crashed-on-the-nurburgring/


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Sometimes, even guys with the best job ever can have a bad day at work



Looks like the driver was expecting ABS and there was none..


----------



## Monocrom

In fairness, you'd expect a car like that to have ABS. What was GM thinking?


----------



## vadimax

Monocrom said:


> In fairness, you'd expect a car like that to have ABS. What was GM thinking?



This is a test rig. ABS could just fail


----------



## Monocrom

vadimax said:


> This is a test rig. ABS could just fail




Car brands simply dress up the outside, maybe new engines and trannys. Improvements to things like established ABS systems. Doubtful they'd use a brand new system from the ground up.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

"Donnie says, driver error."

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

I'm looking into getting one of these, Y/N?


----------



## Monocrom

Yes, if you don't mind lack of performance.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Yes, if you don't mind lack of performance.



It's not ideal, but it's competitive for the segment; micro-utes are all specifically designed for space and MPG, no performance to speak of in the genre. Lexus-quiet though..


----------



## Nutdip

Cars? Call me when ya'll get stuck in the mudd or snow. I'll pull ya out.


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> It's not ideal, but it's competitive for the segment; micro-utes are all specifically designed for space and MPG, no performance to speak of in the genre. Lexus-quiet though..



+

Have to agree,, you don't need big performance for a daily driver. It takes little hp to carry a car @75 _if not towing ect.._
My '17 Santa Fe Sport gets almost 28mpg _combined_ in a medium sized vehicle.. I'm good w/ that

I also use the SHIFTRONIC manual often for building revvs (it won't upshift automatically until like 6000ish rpm but does downshift if I forget, which helps at times.)

__________________________________________________________________________
Also:: the Z28 vid,, not all cars have ABS, especially race or track specific 
pure mechanical feel & feedback to brake pedal w/o computer vageness is key._


----------



## Monocrom

Nutdip said:


> Cars? Call me when ya'll get stuck in the mudd or snow. I'll pull ya out.



Where's the winch?


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Have to agree,, you don't need big performance for a daily driver. It takes little hp to carry a car @75 _if not towing..._
> __________________________________________________________________________
> Also:: the Z28 vid,, not all cars have ABS, especially race or track specific
> pure mechanical feel & feedback to brake pedal w/o computer vageness is key._



Have to respectfully disagree on both counts. Having power on tap isn't just about showing off. I've been able to avoid accidents by both accelerating past them, as well as using my sweet ride's sharp reflexes to avoid them. 

Also, when you sell high-performance machines to professional drivers who'll take them only onto the track, that's one thing. You sell the very same machine to amateurs of the general public who'll use them pretty much exclusively on public streets, it's just moronic not to include ABS on those cars in this day & age. It could even be argued that it's a form of negligence on the part of the car company itself.


----------



## ven

Monocrom said:


> Where's the winch?




Thats on the truck that rescues Nutdip


----------



## Launch Mini

StarHalo said:


> I'm looking into getting one of these, Y/N?


Is this the Encore?
We had one as a rental car last holiday. It was "okay", but the windscreen seemed really narrow, so poor front visibility IMO.
Check out the Subaru Crosstrek or the new Honda HRV.


----------



## orbital

Monocrom said:


> Have to respectfully disagree on both counts. Having power on tap isn't just about showing off. I've been able to avoid accidents by both accelerating past them, as well as using my sweet ride's sharp reflexes to avoid them.
> 
> Also, when you sell high-performance machines to professional drivers who'll take them only onto the track, that's one thing. You sell the very same machine to amateurs of the general public who'll use them pretty much exclusively on public streets, it's just moronic not to include ABS on those cars in this day & age. It could even be argued that it's a form of negligence on the part of the car company itself.



+

We need pics of your sweet ride!!!1

I hear you on power (DMV may not),, having a reasonable amount of power is the point.
One could argue some cars for sale to the public are simply too fast. Once company A is allowed to sell superfast cars, other companies jump on immediately because the precedent of performance is set.
Any joeshmo can throw down a pile of cash and walk out with a car he/she has no business, nor skill, driving.

Should there be a Advanced Drivers License required for cars driven of a certain performance level??

They're cars sold to the public that need to be *detuned *to race in certain classes/series, detuned>
With ABS, that could be a big debate about 'driver assisted features' 
...personally, I do like cruse control and having ABS* for winter but that is it.

*anyone can make ABS systems lockup on snow


----------



## StarHalo

Launch Mini said:


> Is this the Encore?
> We had one as a rental car last holiday. It was "okay", but the windscreen seemed really narrow, so poor front visibility IMO.
> Check out the Subaru Crosstrek or the new Honda HRV.



I think that was just an element of the car's size that the engineers couldn't hide; the Encore isn't as wide as a Volkswagen Golf. I'm avoiding AWD so Subarus are out, and I'd prefer the Honda's CVT tranny for puttering about town, but it's more money for less luxury otherwise.


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> I think that was just an element of the car's size that the engineers couldn't hide; the Encore isn't as wide as a Volkswagen Golf. I'm avoiding AWD so Subarus are out, and I'd prefer the Honda's CVT tranny for puttering about town, but it's more money for less luxury otherwise.



+

1.8L turbo Sportwagon maybe
VW is hungry for sales, so good deals are a real possibility


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> I think that was just an element of the car's size that the engineers couldn't hide; the Encore isn't as wide as a Volkswagen Golf. I'm avoiding AWD so Subarus are out, and I'd prefer the Honda's CVT tranny for puttering about town, but it's more money for less luxury otherwise.



Rav4 Hybrid?


----------



## idleprocess

orbital said:


> +
> 
> 1.8L turbo Sportwagon maybe
> VW is hungry for sales, so good deals are a real possibility



Assuming they survive their various self-inflicted _regulatory_ woes...


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> 1.8L turbo Sportwagon maybe



I dig the Tiguan; I like that VW offers a light-colored interior, but they only give you a moonroof on their most expensive trims. 

I'm not doing the car/sedan format in any family daily driving capacity, even the most faux SUV designs just make so much more sense with step-in/hip height, use of space, etc. The "small" CR-V I currently have is much easier to maneuver and park than the "medium" Ford Fusion I had before, with significantly more interior space; big on the inside, small on the outside, that's one of my favorite features. And the Fusion was always nosing out/bottoming out when pulling out of a steep drive - the other day I was pulling into one of the local drug stores and I went over a speed bump right at the entrance, I didn't recall ever seeing a speed bump at a road entry, and rightly so, since it was in fact a narrow curb island nestled perfectly along the side of the entrance that there was no way for me to see. Most cars in that situation would have lost some front air dam, some rain shield, maybe damaged the muffler, but the CR-V just casually rolled over it and carried on. That's a convenient feature.



FroggyTaco said:


> Rav4 Hybrid?



Love the RAV4 but Toyota knows how much it's worth; the Encore actually has the classic Toyota over-amped power steering, which is nice. I'd go for a used mid-2000's model with the V6, big horsepower and straight-line performance from those..


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> Love the RAV4 but Toyota knows how much it's worth; the Encore actually has the classic Toyota over-amped power steering, which is nice. I'd go for a used mid-2000's model with the V6, big horsepower and straight-line performance from those..




Gotcha. 

I thought you were looking for higher mpg from an SUV hence the recommendation. I'm hearing upper 30's to low 40's from owners.


----------



## orbital

+

2016 Mazda CX3 in _Touring_ trim you can get a moonroof, selecting the Premium package 
around $25k

Mazda races alot & this has the SKYACTIV tech in the motor.


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> +
> 
> We need pics of your sweet ride!!!1







Sure thing. 2009 V6 Mazda 6. I love how folks think it simply has sporty pretensions, with no real performance to back it up. Good! Let them continue to think that.... as I blow their doors off!


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> I think that was just an element of the car's size that the engineers couldn't hide; the Encore isn't as wide as a Volkswagen Golf. *I'm avoiding AWD so Subarus are out,* and I'd prefer the Honda's CVT tranny for puttering about town, but it's more money for less luxury otherwise.



I keep forgetting you're in sunny California. During the last blizzard in NYC, I realized my next car absolutely must be 4WD or at least AWD. That drive home from work after it was snowing for a few hours convinced me of that. If my mother's birthday wasn't that morning, I would have left my car parked in the lot at work, and simply walked the 6 blocks or so to the nearest motel. Gone back to work the next night, then driven home on fleshly plowed and salted roads.


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> 2016 Mazda CX3



Mazda really has it together, but they need a CX2..



Monocrom said:


> I keep forgetting you're in sunny California. During the last blizzard in NYC, I realized my next car absolutely must be 4WD or at least AWD.



Yes, accumulating snow = AWD-not-optional. You go into the mountains here and the most popular vehicles are roughly half Jeeps and half Subarus.


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Mazda really has it together, but they need a CX2...



+

oh pfft,, just get the Mazda, you'll like it.

crom like his


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

:thinking: I didn't know Jeep and Subaru partnered to build a hybrid. What's it called, a Jeebaru or a Subeep? 

~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> +
> 
> oh pfft,, just get the Mazda, you'll like it.
> 
> crom like his



Indeed I do! :twothumbs


----------



## Monocrom

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> :thinking: I didn't know Jeep and Subaru partnered to build a hybrid. What's it called, a Jeebaru or a Subeep?
> 
> ~ Chance



Ewww.... Hopefully such an abomination never occurs. No thanks. It's like taking a Subaru and making it more off-road capable but less reliable.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

My father purchased this in February 1995 as a surprise for my mother. She had been using a Triumph Spitfire for her daily driver. Granny, as she is affectionally known by all, drove the LeBaron everyday until she purchased a Lincoln Continental about a month ago. The Purple Car, as it was affectionally known (except by mom's blue-haired friends) was sold yesterday. During the last 21 years Granny put 119,000 miles on it. 

I took this picture minutes before the new owner happily drove it away. :wave:

~ Chance


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Granny's new ride ~


----------



## ven

You have a very  granny!!!


----------



## StarHalo

Forgot to mention: Lots of Ferraris spotted during my jaunt through Corona Del Mar, but the highlight - parked way down at the end of a beach drive off by its lonesome, with the stickers still in the windows, a shiny copper brown Tesla X..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Forgot to mention: Lots of Ferraris spotted during my jaunt through Corona Del Mar, but the highlight - parked way down at the end of a beach drive off by its lonesome, with the stickers still in the windows, a shiny copper brown Tesla X..




Was it on fire? (J/K)


----------



## StarHalo

My favorite version of Le Car: the R5 - just put the engine in the back, add a turbo and widebody, presto, 185 hp of RWD sacre bleu. And this one just sold for $63,000:


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Was it on fire? (J/K)



Skip to 2:00, see for yourself:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Two wonderful cars, both built for people with too much money.

Do thoes two guys have the best job ever, or what!?

~ Chance


----------



## lightmyfire13

2016 Mazda2 Sport Black ....haven't been able to drive for 2 weeks as my back went and lost feeling and power in both feet ....life sucks


----------



## Monocrom

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Two wonderful cars, both built for people with too much money.
> 
> Do thoes two guys have the best job ever, or what!?
> 
> ~ Chance




Impressive performance from both vehicles, indeed.


----------



## Monocrom

lightmyfire13 said:


> 2016 Mazda2 Sport Black ....haven't been able to drive for 2 weeks as my back went and lost feeling and power in both feet ....life sucks



Sorry to hear that. Hope you get better soon.


----------



## lightmyfire13

Monocrom said:


> Sorry to hear that. Hope you get better soon.


Thanks waiting for op .....


----------



## BloodLust

My uncle just restored this one.

The kiddies playing around in the Toyota Sports 800. Toyota's 1st production sports car.
Only 10% of about 3,131 of these vehicles made from 1965-69 survived. Also, only 300 of the total cars made were left-hand drive.
This left hand drive model is rare. I don't know how many are left.


----------



## BloodLust

A friend of a friend's rides. He does customs and his trademark are wide body kits.

Corvette "Black Manta"
















Porsche 993 Carrera 4s with air suspension.






And he did a custom wide body, air suspension Toyota 86.


----------



## StarHalo

*Three horsepower per cubic inch* in a *Volvo station wagon*. The turbocharged + supercharged 2.0L/120c.i. 4-cylinder makes 362 horsepower, available in the US this fall.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Sounds like a great car to *Lease* & not buy!

Manual transmission?


----------



## StarHalo

FroggyTaco said:


> Sounds like a great car to *Lease* & not buy!
> 
> Manual transmission?



8-speed auto with manual mode paddles, may as well get the full rally experience by keeping the engine screaming at all times. ~$70K to play, but at less than 200 copies a year here, great resale value..


----------



## durallymax

Just upgraded to a bigger/nicer TDI. Comfy, quick and 35mpg. The Jetta Cup car looks/drives great, just wanted something nicer.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

She's a beauty, durallymax. :thumbsup:

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> *..* The turbocharged + supercharged 2.0L/120c.i. 4-cylinder makes 362 horsepower, available in the US this fall.



+

Another turbocharged *&* supercharged jobberoo from thirty years ago






________________________

Also::: talked with my neighbor today that has the Shelby 350, he has the _track version _/ still has his vette.
he was in his AMG wagon:devil:

He's good friends with Randy Pobst (really) and Randy said the 350 is everything the Z06 was not,, and it's a killer car.
*I told him I want to buy it...lol*


----------



## StarHalo

Australia.


----------



## fyrstormer

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Another turbocharged *&* supercharged jobberoo from thirty years ago


----------



## Minimoog

I spent yesterday afternoon changing the gearbox oil and refitting the refurbished alloy wheels (13" Alloy 'METEOR II' by K&N). Quite easy to do on the Skoda as you can squeeze underneath without the car going up on ramps or a jack. Working on the car is quite therapeutic I think, making it go as well as possible and more reliably too. I have been doing quite a bit while the weather has been good - change the coolant, oil, brake fluid, grease points tended, coat of wax - the usual. I even had some teens walk past and say 'cool car' which cheered me up a bit as it used to be seen as not a cool car at all.


----------



## bykfixer

Minimoog said:


> I spent yesterday afternoon changing the gearbox oil and refitting the refurbished alloy wheels (13" Alloy 'METEOR II' by K&N). Quite easy to do on the Skoda as you can squeeze underneath without the car going up on ramps or a jack. Working on the car is quite therapeutic I think, making it go as well as possible and more reliably too. I have been doing quite a bit while the weather has been good - change the coolant, oil, brake fluid, grease points tended, coat of wax - the usual. I even had some teens walk past and say 'cool car' which cheered me up a bit as it used to be seen as not a cool car at all.



You got a hot hatch Skoda?

Either way sounds like fun.

Went to help my son work on his 01 Prelude.




Quite the stiff suspension on that one. 
Jack it up from either corner and both wheels on that side lift.
Sure makes putting it up on stands all 4 corners a lot easier.


----------



## Minimoog

bykfixer said:


> You got a hot hatch Skoda?



Its 44 BHP with a rear engine so a 'cold non-hatch' 

But is good fun nonetheless. Some were exported to Canada too I think back in the mid 80's. Mine is from '88, so one of the last.


----------



## jskelton

Here's my daily driver. 2015 SRT Challenger Hellcat, bought it new with 2 miles on the clock, she now has 16,000 and counting. I've had a lot of powerful cars, and modded them to be even more powerful (GT500, 2 GTOs, Typhoon, Challenger SRT8, Magnum SRT8 and more F-Bodies in my youth than I can remember), but never had one as impressive as this right out of the factory. A few little tweaks and it's a real monster. By summer's end, it'll be running 9's with only about 3 grand in it. Not bad for a factory daily driver!


----------



## mm1987

That is one beautiful car!

So jealous! [emoji22][emoji26] [emoji33]


----------



## bykfixer

Minimoog said:


> Its 44 BHP with a rear engine so a 'cold non-hatch'
> 
> But is good fun nonetheless. Some were exported to Canada too I think back in the mid 80's. Mine is from '88, so one of the last.



I asked my son who speaks of any car compared to Honda cars "what's a SKODA?". He replied "something like a Honda Civic" 

I said "a fella at the forums said some youngsters remarked his is cool.". 
He said "must be a hot hatch." 
That's why I said that. 

Anyway sounds like a fun car. And also sounds like either you are extremely skinny or it's got lots of room to move around at maintenance time.


----------



## Minimoog

bykfixer said:


> I asked my son who speaks of any car compared to Honda cars "what's a SKODA?". He replied "something like a Honda Civic"
> 
> I said "a fella at the forums said some youngsters remarked his is cool.".
> He said "must be a hot hatch."
> That's why I said that.
> 
> Anyway sounds like a fun car. And also sounds like either you are extremely skinny or it's got lots of room to move around at maintenance time.



I can't but help admire the powerful cars on this thread - which must be nice to drive. But my Skoda is probably not like any US car, but a little like the VW Beetle perhaps. I remembered I filmed a little short about my car - you can even see me at the wheel! You get a ride in it at the end as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyceLZbv5sE

It has good ground clearance so as long as you remember not to lay a rug down you can slide anywhere apart from the middle of the car - but you can reach there.

Shame you're not a bit nearer - I'd take you and your son a 'blast' (well, gentle chug) around the block!


----------



## jdboy

Wow, how in the world did I ever miss this thread!?!


----------



## jdboy

Didn't take too much arm twisting to convince my father-in-law that he deserved this early last month!


----------



## Monocrom

jdboy said:


> Wow, how in the world did I ever miss this thread!?!




Any chance of seeing that beauty's sweet backside? :huh:


----------



## jdboy

Monocrom said:


> Any chance of seeing that beauty's sweet backside? :huh:



Sure can, but as a quick eye will catch it's a '73 clone of a '71 R/T.


----------



## Monocrom

So it's a clone.... Let's pretend we're in Vegas. It's not the 100% genuine thing, but no one cares. Tell us sweet, sweet lies.


----------



## jdboy

Monocrom said:


> So it's a clone.... Let's pretend we're in Vegas. It's not the 100% genuine thing, but no one cares. Tell us sweet, sweet lies.



Yeah it's a clone but anyone that's into Challengers can spot the differences pretty easily.


----------



## BloodLust

Just passed a SRT Hellcat here in Dubai.
Trying to look for pics I took of the Rolls Royce and Mercedes SLR.


----------



## StarHalo

Pagani Huayra Pearl, 001 of 001, now 000:


----------



## Monocrom

That's a damn shame.


----------



## orbital

+

..and one less *Koenigsegg** One:1*


----------



## Burgess

a bit more info
about StarHalo posting (above) --

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/07/21/rare-pagani-huayra-crash-photos/


----------



## jskelton

BloodLust said:


> Just passed a SRT Hellcat here in Dubai.
> Trying to look for pics I took of the Rolls Royce and Mercedes SLR.




That's not a Hellcat. It's an older model (08-14). Even if it were newer, Hellcats don't have foglights (we have heat exchangers down there), and that's the wrong hood.


----------



## BloodLust

jskelton said:


> That's not a Hellcat. It's an older model (08-14). Even if it were newer, Hellcats don't have foglights (we have heat exchangers down there), and that's the wrong hood.



Thanks for the correction.
Didn't get a good look at it. 1 of the guys in the car said Hellcat and I took his word for it.


----------



## StarHalo

Tokyo Auto Salon Custom Car Grand Prix winner N-Labs S660 Neo Classic concept; where do I sign..


----------



## Ladd

That's retro-cool with the chrome bumpers and mirrors!


----------



## BloodLust

I actually like the look of even the current S660. The Kei car segment is a really good idea and I just wish that it's implemented in more places.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> Tokyo Auto Salon Custom Car Grand Prix winner N-Labs S660 Neo Classic concept; where do I sign..



Thought to myself upon first [email protected]@King at this picture, Oh my! Very cool indeed.
I'm wondering if the top section is removable. 

~ Chance


----------



## Capolini

My brothers 1970 Porsche Targa that I helped him refurbish!


----------



## kj2

Ordered my first car, last week 





Known here as an Opel Corsa.


----------



## Crazyeddiethefirst

Sweet ride, Congrats kj2!


----------



## fivemega

kj2 said:


> Ordered my first car, last week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Known here as an Opel Corsa.



*Opel is German version of Chevrolet (GM).*


----------



## StarHalo

Trivia time: The last production car sold in the U.S. with a cassette tape deck was the 2010 Lexus SC430. (2010?!)


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> Trivia time: The last production car sold in the U.S. with a cassette tape deck was the 2010 Lexus SC430. (2010?!)



I'm going to wager a guess that's a Nakamichi combo head unit that has a CD & Cassette player. 

But still...


----------



## Monocrom

Face it guys, that Lexus model was something of a cruiser for an older generation used to cassettes. No surprise there.


----------



## Father Azmodius

I was surprised that the '04 Audi S4 had a tape deck when the wifey bought it in '09


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

fivemega said:


> *Opel is German version of Chevrolet (GM).*


Not exactly.

General Motors acquired Opel in 1925 IIRC, today it is a subsidiary of GM for most of their European models. But don't worry, seems to confuse the hell out of people here.

We have Vauxhall, which was once a 100% British marque, however GM acquired them in 1929. But many Brits seem to believe they are still British cars, often owned by Opel

:shakehead


Fun and laughter however doesn't really commence until you start discussing Ford with people in Europe though


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

BloodLust said:


> A friend of a friend's rides. He does customs and his trademark are wide body kits.
> 
> Corvette "Black Manta"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Porsche 993 Carrera 4s with air suspension.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And he did a custom wide body, air suspension Toyota 86.



I guess this goes to prove that money cannot buy taste or style


----------



## Monocrom

Some cars are supposed to be vulgar. A blood red Dodge Viper for example. But yeah, money can't buy good taste.


----------



## StarHalo

Incoming: Mazda MX-5 RF, power folding targa top. Only 1000 copies for the US:


----------



## idleprocess

_Which Corvette is best Corvette?_


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## StarHalo

RBR said:


> Do never show someone at Porsche what has been done to that poor victim.



I've posted one of those before, it's a Rauh-Welt Begriff Porsche, from a tiny shop in Japan; highly sought after one-off creations, very uniquely splits the difference between German and Japanese design:


----------



## Monocrom

Good God! That is beyond hideous!! Is that supposed to be a spoiler or a bench to watch the sunset with a lady friend cuddled up next to you?


----------



## BloodLust




----------



## Monocrom

I have far more love and respect for my sweet baby than to ever even think about having a seat on her backside. Each of those guys deserve to be smacked upside the head with the jawbone of an ***. Where's Sampson when you need him.


----------



## orbital

+

That 911 (964 series) is exactly the type of car you see at club races,,,, no air restrictions and stupid fast!
You start not to hate the rear wing when you see how fast it is.

It looks really close to a local guy who has a wildly turbocharged 964 in that same color, he does well racing it in vintage events.
thing has sooo much pull, it nearly does wheelies====*bIG* *NUTTS*


----------



## Monocrom

There's other ways of attaining the evil seductive mistress known as Speed..... without courting Hideousness as well. The driver and those two as well?..... Worst three-some ever!


----------



## StarHalo

A proper track racing spoiler should meet the top of the roofline and the sides of the wheel wells; there's a production car that has this feature, it was unchallenged at the top of Car and Driver's Lightning Lap times for half a decade:


----------



## orbital

+

Current factory 911 race spec
..the wing is no higher than roof, same width as car


----------



## rioimmagina

I love fat spoilers!
Never got one in any case, I have always driven hatchbacks...


----------



## StarHalo

rioimmagina said:


> I love fat spoilers!
> Never got one in any case, I have always driven hatchbacks...



Somebody in my neighborhood has one of these, looks like a more evil version of a Mazdaspeed3..


----------



## SCEMan

My brother's 70 Chevelle SS 454 really brings back memories from my late 60's-70's muscle car days. Almost 15 years younger, he was heavily influenced by my misspent youth with cars and firearms...


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

After five months of ownership, ....... well, no regrets. I'm amazed at how well 4,000 pounds of steel can behave. Should I mow the lawn or go for a drive? Decisions, decisions. 

~ Chance 





2009 Cadillac STS 320HP Northstar V8 Goodness


----------



## StarHalo

Well I think the styling of the new Firebirds is just fine..


----------



## Monocrom

I like it too. Very nice use of gold against the black.

Wait a minute! Pontiac is dead!! You pull that image out of some alternate reality or what?


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

Like torches, I seem to own multiple vehicles...  but it does make for a rather more expensive hobby :laughing:

This is the current fleet.





It even includes a left hand drive... 






This ones still being built


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Yep, once you reach eight cars, you have a fleet. 

~ C.G.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Wait a minute! Pontiac is dead!! You pull that image out of some alternate reality or what?



The Woodward Dream Cruise, which does indeed count as an alternate reality..


----------



## orbital

^


----------



## irongate

SCEMan said:


> My brother's 70 Chevelle SS 454 really brings back memories from my late 60's-70's muscle car days. Almost 15 years younger, he was heavily influenced by my misspent youth with cars and firearms...



Now we are talking cars with some H.P.


----------



## rioimmagina

StarHalo said:


> Somebody in my neighborhood has one of these, looks like a more evil version of a Mazdaspeed3..


Yeah these AMG versions of Mercedes are really interesting. I like a lot the A class A45 AMG and everybody concur that it rips... beside looking seriously cool! I love hot hatches!


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> The Woodward Dream Cruise, which does indeed count as an alternate reality..



Sadly, my wallet cannot travel to alternate realities.


----------



## StarHalo

Fortune. Smiles. Upon you. (Rally de Santa Cruz, Bolivia)


----------



## roger-roger

Balboni, Gallardo.


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> Fortune. Smiles. Upon you. (Rally de Santa Cruz, Bolivia)




More proof that you don't swerve in these type of situations. 

Either party....


----------



## Str8stroke

car jumping a dog! that was crazy. Guess that may be where the term "Lucky Dog" comes from? 
Out of all these cool cars, that SS really has my heart. Maybe cause it is one of the few here I could actually afford! lol I got to ride in one when I was a teen. That was the fastest car I had ever been in. In my mind, it still is one of the coolest to this day. I dreamt many of nights of a Cutlass 442 Convertible. One day I may own one! 

Chicken D, where do you park all those? Do you really own that many cars at one time? I would go mad trying to keep up with dead batteries, low tires, inspections, plates, insurance, oil changes, old fuel and so on! lol I think you have to drive them regularly or they go bad. Car lots have a phrase they use for cars that sit too much: "lot rot". Apparently it can get the best!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

SCEMan said:


> My brother's 70 Chevelle SS 454 really brings back memories from my late 60's-70's muscle car days. Almost 15 years younger, he was heavily influenced by my misspent youth with cars and firearms...





Str8stroke said:


> car jumping a dog! that was crazy. Guess that may be where the term "Lucky Dog" comes from?
> Out of all these cool cars, that SS really has my heart. *Maybe cause it is one of the few here I could actually afford! lol* I got to ride in one when I was a teen. That was the fastest car I had ever been in. In my mind, it still is one of the coolest to this day. I dreamt many of nights of a Cutlass 442 Convertible. One day I may own one!
> 
> Chicken D, where do you park all those? Do you really own that many cars at one time? I would go mad trying to keep up with dead batteries, low tires, inspections, plates, insurance, oil changes, old fuel and so on! lol I think you have to drive them regularly or they go bad. Car lots have a phrase they use for cars that sit too much: "lot rot". Apparently it can get the best!


 

Str8er, You realize that's a $60,000 car, right? 

~ Chance
https://classiccars.com/listings/vi...le-ss-for-sale-in-lenoir-city-tennessee-37772
​


----------



## SCEMan

Str8stroke said:


> Out of all these cool cars, that SS really has my heart. Maybe cause it is one of the few here I could actually afford! lol I got to ride in one when I was a teen. That was the fastest car I had ever been in. In my mind, it still is one of the coolest to this day. I dreamt many of nights of a Cutlass 442 Convertible. One day I may own one!





Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Str8er, You realize that's a $60,000 car, right?



So true. I could never even afford to relieve my glory days by buying my old cars back - like this one (sold it for the down payment on my first house).


----------



## StarHalo

StarHalo said:


> A proper track racing spoiler should meet the top of the roofline and the sides of the wheel wells; there's a production car that has this feature, it was unchallenged at the top of Car and Driver's Lightning Lap times for half a decade:



And congrats again to the same model - a new Lightning Lap brings a new Dodge Viper ACR, and it again goes sailing right past the new Ferrari, the new Corvette, resting atop the all-time leaderboard only one second under the ten-times-more-expensive Porsche 918.


----------



## Monocrom

*Hell Yeah!!! *


----------



## StarHalo

Delivery day: Came off the truck the day before yesterday, had the shipping wrap removed, was detailed, and then handed to us; odometer shows 13 miles.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Congratulations StarHalo. That is a very nice car! :thumbsup: Happy motoring.

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

+

_*Nice*_ *Bavarian Motor Works!

:thumbsup:
*


----------



## blah9

Nice, congratulations! Enjoy!


----------



## Monocrom

*Congrats! *


----------



## StarHalo

Ty all, and congrats to this thread for hitting 400,000 views. Now everyone go out and test drive a BMW (since roughly half of them have the same engine as this X1..)


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Ty all, and congrats to this thread for hitting 400,000 views. Now everyone go out and test drive a BMW (since roughly half of them have the same engine as this X1..)



+

My next door neighbor just got the exact brand new X1 as you, same color everything ~(sharp looking car in person))))
maybe they're CFP members tooo & have been following this thread for years...:grouphug::twothumbs

___

there's an X5 owner not far away either,, popular rides


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

I'm sure I'd love to take one for a test drive but I'd hate to waste the salesman's time. That BadBoy is way above my pay grade. 

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I'm sure I'd love to take one for a test drive but I'd hate to waste the salesman's time. That BadBoy is way above my pay grade.



You'd be surprised. Performance numbers are a third of a second off the Caddy's across the board, but double the gas mileage..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Model: 2009 Cadillac STS

Horsepower: 320 hp
Engine: 4.6 L V8 
MPG: Up to 15 city / 24 highway 
Curb weight: 3,995 to 4,221 lbs 


Model: 2017 BMW X1MSRP: 

Horsepower: 228 hp 
Engine: 2.0 L 4-cylinder 
MPG: 22 city / 31 highway
Curb weight: 3,660 lbs 

The BMW's four cylinder produces 71.25% of the Northstar V8's HP, with less than half the displacement. That's crazy impressive.  :thumbsup:

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> The BMW's four cylinder produces 71.25% of the Northstar V8's HP, with less than half the displacement.



More detailed numbers here and here; but the highlight is torque, where the German is at 82% of the GM *at 1250 rpm* - a standard freeway merge sees the tach breech 2000 rpm in first gear and then never go over ~1700 thereafter, you drive by riding a wave of torque like in a diesel, the engine bored and bogging in the background the whole way. The future is little SUVs with engines that work like big trucks, engine blocks that look like the skeletons of engine blocks..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

The 2017 Cadillac CTS-V, a car I'd give the left twin for, produces 1.7 HP per cubic inch. That's mighty impressive. StarHalo's Bimmer produces 1.87 HP per cubic inch. DAMN! 

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Sedan-wise, I also checked out the identically-priced 3 series (Caddy ATS equivalent) and after doing the family SUV thing for so long, the interior was just too small; the X1 is externally smaller than the 3, but has interior space equal with the 5 series, kind of a no-brainer if you don't necessarily want a car to fit like a glove. As performance sedans go, Tesla has pretty much ruined it for everybody..


----------



## Flying Turtle

On a decidedly more boring note, I've been trying to get my wife to start thinking new car to replace her aging V70 (2005). So far, she seems to be leaning toward a Forester (since it has a color she likes) and a fwd CRV (reliability). We'd like similar cargo space as the old car, and don't really need the awd of the Subie. Any opinions or recommendations? Thanks.

Geoff


----------



## StarHalo

Flying Turtle said:


> she seems to be leaning toward a Forester (since it has a color she likes) and a fwd CRV (reliability). We'd like similar cargo space as the old car, and don't really need the awd of the Subie.



Haven't driven a Forester, but drove a [current/2017, you didn't mention a year] Outback and the CR-V; was not at all impressed with the CR-V's lack of refinement, almost any other car you could choose from is quieter and more composed. Subaru really has it together lately - be aware of the wide spread of luxury options between base and higher-level models, the cheaper trims are like a base Camry/Accord, the upper levels are like an Audi/Volvo.


----------



## StarHalo

From AAA: "Previous AAA research found that fuel quality varies significantly among gasoline retailers and that using a gasoline that meets TOP TIER standards can result in 19 times fewer engine deposits, increase vehicle performance and improve fuel economy. To protect vehicle investments, AAA urges drivers to use the appropriate gasoline as determined by their car’s manufacturer (regular or premium) that meets TOP TIER standards for engine cleanliness and performance. When it comes to gasoline, ‘premium’ does not mean ‘better’ if your vehicle doesn’t require it. Drivers looking to upgrade to a higher quality fuel for their vehicle should save their money and select a TOP TIER gasoline, not a higher-octane one." List of TOP TIER gas retailers.


----------



## orbital

^

Without hesitation, I buy Premium in my area because that is the grade that does not have ethanol in it.
Have done so for as long as I can remember.
I know mechanics and engineers that will say/do the same.


_Had to laugh a little bit the other day looking at snowblowers,, the dealer puts on stickers saying 'only use gas without ethanol'.
far too many warranty issues dot dot dot

_


----------



## Grizzman

I run the Pure Gas app on my phone so I can locate stations that have Ethanol free fuel.


----------



## idleprocess

orbital said:


> ^
> 
> Without hesitation, I buy Premium in my area because that is the grade that does not have ethanol in it.
> Have done so for as long as I can remember.
> I know mechanics and engineers that will say/do the same.
> 
> 
> _Had to laugh a little bit the other day looking at snowblowers,, the dealer puts on stickers saying 'only use gas without ethanol'.
> far too many warranty issues dot dot dot
> 
> _





Grizzman said:


> I run the Pure Gas app on my phone so I can locate stations that have Ethanol free fuel.



Per the Pure Gas website, I would have to go rather out of my way to get ethanol-free gasoline. Given that the one station in the region that allegedly stocks it is in a county that requires exhaust testing _(and thus likely mandates anti-pollution additives in gas)_, it is doubtful that they will be able to sell ethanol-free gasoline for long.


----------



## orbital

+

2017 Duramax, a 6.6-liter V8 diesel, 445 hp and *910 lb-ft of torque*, 
...wonder if you could squeeze that in the back of the mid-engined Vette? 

_Just gear her tall :kiss:_


----------



## StarHalo

Other truck news: Here's why the US doesn't get the Ranger, seen at the left vs an F150 on the right:


----------



## FroggyTaco

It looks a lot smaller. More like a Dakota size or what the F150 was 15 years ago.


----------



## Launch Mini

My wife is on her second X1, and just loves them/it.
Her first one blew up. Literally, but pretty sure it was due to the service center not putting the drain plug back in properly. Was only 3 years old with 66,666km.
Was replaced under warranty by BMW.
She tried the X3 for about 5 months, but we swapped back to the X1.
Very quick and great mileage.


----------



## StarHalo

Launch Mini said:


> She tried the X3 for about 5 months, but we swapped back to the X1.
> Very quick and great mileage.



The current X1 and X3 have the same engine but different tune, so it's quite a shock test driving the 3 assuming it'll be slower; you put your foot down and the body leans back even farther, the speedometer swings faster..


----------



## rioimmagina

FroggyTaco said:


> It looks a lot smaller. More like a Dakota size or what the F150 was 15 years ago.


Ahah i guess it is a matter of perspective... a friend here (Switzerland) has a Ranger and to me that look enormous!


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> 2017 Duramax, a 6.6-liter V8 diesel, 445 hp and 910 lb-ft of torque



Car and Driver's play-by-play with that engine: "we hopped into a Silverado 3500HD crew-cab dualie towing a 10,000-pound trailer and headed out onto the lower apron of the Texas Motor Speedway’s oval. With the truck in tow mode and its exhaust brake activated, we pinned the accelerator, which, after taking a moment for the truck to get on boil, resulted in spinning all four rear tires." :laughing:


----------



## StarHalo

And speaking of diesel: ~1980 Cadillac Brougham Cummins Diesel swap with sawzall convertible top and side exhaust:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

How come the best day at work ever always has to end with the police and a tow-truck showing up? 

~ Chance


----------



## Dave D

My car in winter, well as bad as it gets in Andalusia!







Yes, I have photoshopped the license plate slightly! :twothumbs


----------



## BloodLust

Velociraptor 6x6. 600hp.
Expensive though.








2020 Ford Bronco


----------



## StarHalo

Dave D said:


> My car in winter, well as bad as it gets in Andalusia!



Great looking Kuga; they sell those here with a 245hp engine, as long as you're willing to spend 35K Euros on a compact Ford..



BloodLust said:


> Velociraptor 6x6. 600hp.



Welcome to Dodge circa 20 years ago; but the we'll-actualize-any-concept company never went beyond the concept, so don't expect to see any 6x6s down your street anytime soon..


----------



## StarHalo

Just washed it!


----------



## harro

Hahaha, may need to get the depth perception checked out, what a pisser...... ( translation; that is very funny ).


----------



## Monocrom

There goes that hydrant.


----------



## StarHalo

Another fun thing about California roads, Mexican cars - saw this one today, the Volkswagen Crossfox; hard to believe they don't offer a US-spec body here. In MX-spec it's 110hp, manual only, just two front airbags, $11,000:


----------



## StarHalo

The *2017 Chevy Camaro ZL1*, a pony car available at your local Chevy dealer, beat the following cars around the Nurburgring:

Ford Shelby GT350R
Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera
Koenigsegg CCX
Porsche 911 GT2
Mercedes-AMG GT S
McLaren 650S Spider
Jaguar XJ220
Caterham R500 Superlight

The vid is revealing; the previous Chevy 'Ring time of note from the last generation Corvette ZR1 looked rather unengaging as that car was a horsepower monster that could only be driven around the track at 8/10ths, but the Camaro is much happier at its limits:


----------



## Monocrom

That stick shift is being neglected!! So wrong!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Monocrom said:


> That stick shift is being neglected!! So wrong!



If ever there was a case for keeping your eyes on the road and your hands on the wheel. Man, that was violent! I didn't know I could hold my breath for three and a half minutes. :bow: Mad skills. 

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

^

I want to see the exact same tires on all those cars & use the same driver,
also same enviro/temp conditions too.


----------



## Dave D

StarHalo said:


> The *2017 Chevy Camaro ZL1*, a pony car available at your local Chevy dealer, beat the following cars around the Nurburgring:
> 
> Ford Shelby GT350R
> Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera
> Koenigsegg CCX
> Porsche 911 GT2
> Mercedes-AMG GT S
> McLaren 650S Spider
> Jaguar XJ220
> Caterham R500 Superlight
> 
> The vid is revealing; the previous Chevy 'Ring time of note from the last generation Corvette ZR1 looked rather unengaging as that car was a horsepower monster that could only be driven around the track at 8/10ths, but the Camaro is much happier at its limits:




One of my riding buddies did it in 7:28.8 back in 2007, that was on a Yamaha YZF-R1, he was a journalist for Sports Bike Magazine at the time, he's still mad now but he does pull over and wait for the rest of us to catch him up!


----------



## StarHalo

BOLO: The Lincoln MKZ, the lux version of the Ford Fusion - now with *400hp/400 lb-ft* to *all four wheels*..


----------



## orbital

+

_flattery_


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

I prefer the look of the Lincoln. 400 HP ... HELLYES! 

~ C.G.


----------



## SCEMan

orbital said:


> +
> _flattery_



Everyone seems to be mimicking Audi's front end styling these days.


----------



## FroggyTaco

SCEMan said:


> Everyone seems to be mimicking Audi's front end styling these days.



Better Audi than Lexus's front end.


----------



## StarHalo

But the back is one of the best on a American sedan:







I kind of prefer the front from the last-gen model, very rare you see one even in SoCal though:








FroggyTaco said:


> Better Audi than Lexus's front end.



When the wife and I were shopping for MiniUVs, we noted that the Lexus was actually rated the most plush of the breed, but unfortunately we just couldn't be seen in it, we didn't even test drive one..


----------



## StarHalo

Check out the snazzy new packing tape we're putting on your packages:


----------



## orbital

+

2017 RSR .. Latest Le Mans 24 Hour GT spec


----------



## StarHalo

If you have Amazon Prime, the first episode of The Grand Tour is already up, go go go..

Quick review: Lives up to the hype (and budget), it's a new work in progress but starting from the template of the greatest [car] television show of all time, so there's little that can go wrong and the huge potential is obvious. All the top-shelf video and audio production of the original, but now no longer limited to a home base/studio in a clever twist. I know what I'm doing with my Friday nights from now on..


----------



## Burgess

Just watched 1st Episode of
The Grand Tour.


The boys are just as Great as Ever !


Thank you, Amazon !

:twothumbs
_


----------



## blah9

Yes, I just watched it tonight. Definitely looking forward to keeping up with it!


----------



## StarHalo

Those of you who use the *Waze* GPS/traffic app can now set the navigation voice to "Clarkson, Hammond & May" and have them direct you/argue to your destination. I used it this afternoon, it's sort of like being on The Grand Tour while you're driving..


----------



## blah9

Haha that's awesome! I haven't tried Waze in a long time but maybe I should give it another go sometime.


----------



## BloodLust

Just downloaded it. Trippy!
Hope it doesn't get annoying on a long drive.


----------



## orbital

+

Volkswagen has really gotten screwed by this diesel situation..
Just because an independent lab found 40% more emissions than reported,,* that's 40% of nearly nothing!*

Look at all the big trucks & buses, heavy equipment ect, ect, that blow huge amounts of unburnt exhaust from their pipes.
A little 2L VW diesel is astoundingly most efficient & cleaner burning, even if there are more of them relatively.

My brother has two diesels; Touareg & Jetta,,, Volkswagen is buying back his Jetta*
VW & Audi are getting out of many forms of racing to cover this huge cost put of them, this is such a unnecessary shame.




*which will be shipped to countries that don't care about the independent labs findings


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Keep America great; Roll Coal! :laughing: 

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

+

Chance, that is NOT stock.


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Chance, that is NOT stock.



I know; I just thought it was funny.  I have asthma and am definitely a clean-air guy. There's just something about rolling coal that's funny to me. 

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

+
_
Gotta go rescue that sno-bunny in need..
_





*AWD Challenger*


----------



## Monocrom

Good idea!..... I've got the bottle of wine, French baguette, caviar, and the Bree.... Someone toss me the keys to the Subaru Legacy.


----------



## orbital

^

You take the Legacy,, I'll take the Challenger & race you up there


----------



## Monocrom

Ooooooo.... Now that is a race I'd love to participate in. You've got speed, I'd have ground clearance. 

I will spank you (figuratively speaking).


----------



## TKC

*I think Lincoln's are some of THE most fugliest cars!*


----------



## Monocrom

People do tend to either love or hate the styling.


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> ^
> 
> You take the Legacy,, I'll take the Challenger & race you up there



The Legacy with the 6-cylinder (the Challenger is also a 6-cyl) could make for an interesting event..


----------



## roger-roger

When I think of sixes I think of my (long gone) '70 Dodge Dart slant six.


----------



## StarHalo

Through December 23-26 the first episode of _The Grand Tour_ is *free for all* on Amazon, no Prime or purchase necessary; if you haven't seen it because you're not a subscriber/you don't want to pay for anything, now's your chance..


----------



## StarHalo

Owners of Tesla's Model X can download a new update for their car called "Holiday Show", which contains an easter egg that does indeed make the little SUV put on a show; since everything on the car is powered hardware controlled by software, it can be programmed to do pretty much anything - including opening and closing doors while playing Trans-Siberian Orchestra's _Wizards of Winter_ with synchronized lighting, like a Christmas lights display. Skip to 1:18:


----------



## StarHalo

- New-for-US-market Ford Ranger, 2019. Ford Bronco 2020.

- The Chevy SS/sedan-with-Corvette-engine is dead.

- Victory Motorcycles is dead.

- The giant Sequoia tree that you drive through like a tunnel in California collapsed due to extreme weather.

- The comic book store has a new drive-thru (DeeP Comics in Huntsville, AL; driver suffered a seizure, no other injuries from the incident):


----------



## TKC

StarHalo said:


> Owners of Tesla's Model X can download a new update for their car called "Holiday Show", which contains an easter egg that does indeed make the little SUV put on a show; since everything on the car is powered hardware controlled by software, it can be programmed to do pretty much anything - including opening and closing doors while playing Trans-Siberian Orchestra's _Wizards of Winter_ with synchronized lighting, like a Christmas lights display. Skip to 1:18:


 *THAT is awesome!! I LOVE TSO. (I saw them in concert once, and they were phenomenal!!*


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Attorney General Loretta Lynch announced that they had reached a deal where VW will plead guilty to corporate criminal conduct and pay a total of* $4.3 billion*. Six top executives will face criminal indictments as well. So far one of them has been arrested. 

 

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Down at the coffee shop this afternoon: Oh hello there..


----------



## StarHalo

Yes/No? Callaway Corvette AeroWagen:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Drive - yes. Own - no. It looks like a hunchback, Fiero. :sick2: 

~ Chance


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Yes/No? Callaway Corvette AeroWagen:



+

*If it goes faster through the fluid we call air, let her rip.*

btw:: in my post #2286 I showed the new factory RSR,
the reason posted was I immediately knew it was now mid-engined. 
To my memory, there has never been a factory diffuser on a race 911 (simply no room & they'll never raise the engine to do it)
.. but with a mid-motor,, there is now room.
A diffuser makes a huge difference on aero efficiency.

This was confirmed during the Daytona 24hr race last weekend


----------



## fyrstormer

Sick of my RX-8. It sucks in heavy traffic. I've been driving my girlfriend's Mazda3 when I've needed to run errands the past few weeks, and that has helped reduce my stress level.

I wish I'd gotten the automatic transmission in my RX-8. I know that's sacrilege for a sports car, but I don't care; the automatic in my dad's Miata works great, and it doesn't make me fuss with the details of making the car move.


----------



## StarHalo

fyrstormer said:


> Sick of my RX-8. It sucks in heavy traffic. I've been driving my girlfriend's Mazda3 when I've needed to run errands the past few weeks, and that has helped reduce my stress level.
> 
> I wish I'd gotten the automatic transmission in my RX-8. I know that's sacrilege for a sports car, but I don't care; the automatic in my dad's Miata works great, and it doesn't make me fuss with the details of making the car move.



'Cause the rotary engine is like a teapot, it only works when it's on the boil..

I remember back when I had my Lexus RX pulling up next to a lovely FD RX-7; I left my auto manually held in first as we pulled away casually from the light, and I waited for him to shift into second, then floored it - the guy caught it immediately, quickly jammed back to first, wound out the engine in first while continuing to fall behind, then once he was nearly a car length back started to pull ahead, then had to shift again, then finally passed me. Poor guy had to put himself and his car through a workout just to get past my SoccerMomUV..

It's interesting to think that the whole car industry has gone completely the opposite way from the rotary engine, it's all monster torque 4 cylinders now. You should seriously test drive anything new/recent with a 2.0 liter turbo, this design makes city driving so much easier and less stressful..


----------



## fyrstormer

You basically described my previous car, a VW Passat 1.8t. Great engine, but the rest of the car was a piece of junk. I couldn't go a year without spending a couple thousand bucks fixing it. Granted it was used when I bought it, but having worked on it myself many times it was obvious to me the car was designed to require regular maintenance even if treated well. Nothing except the frame of the car and the core components of the engine were built to withstand a decade of use without failure. Also, the car was about a thousand pounds too heavy for a 1.8L engine, and the turbo could only make up for it when the engine got over 3000rpm -- which was halfway to redline, unlike my RX-8. (from what I understand, newer turbos are better about this, because they're even smaller than the one on my 1.8t so they can spool-up faster, and they spin on ball bearings so they don't start to choke when the engine gets close to redline.)

The RX-8's 13B-MSP engine is not as finicky as the original 13B in that RX-7 you raced back in the day. It produces at least 90% of peak torque from 3000rpm all the way to 9000rpm, and there's no turbo that needs to spool-up. Instead it has super-low gear ratios...which honestly is part of why driving it in the city sucks, because I have to shift so freaking much. Also, since the torque "curve" is pretty much flat above 3000rpm, the lower redline that goes along with having the automatic transmission would have no discernible effect on my driving experience because I almost never get above 7500rpm anyway -- I have to make a point of aiming for redline, which I almost never do. I don't buy the boy-racer hype that rotary engines "need" to be redlined frequently to "blow the carbon out". The design of the engine is such that carbon will be ejected through the exhaust ports constantly anyway, because the entire interior of the combustion chamber is scrubbed by the various seals. There shouldn't be any excess carbon in the engine unless it's running poorly or drowning in oil.


----------



## StarHalo

Yeah, but those 2.0 turbos are basically like any other V8 you've ever driven from 1200-3000 RPM, very comfy around town with most shifting optional..


----------



## StarHalo

Silent powdered donuts


----------



## StarHalo

Engaging reverse @ 40 mph in a car that doesn't lock it out:


----------



## orbital

^

how surprising on the front plate







*...honey, I can't fix the roof on the trailer 'cuzz I gotts to get a tranny build*


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

:laughing: :laughing: roof on the trailer :laughing: :laughing: 

~ CG


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## StarHalo

RBR said:


> Next Roller Skate to come...



I'd totally go for one of those if it could just keep up with the slightly larger compacts; they need to give it a 2.0T connected to all four wheels..


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> I'd totally go for one of those if it could just keep up with the slightly larger compacts; they need to give it a 2.0T connected to all four wheels..



Yup..Fiat is the company that could but for w/e reason can't...

When you have Ford kicking your arse on multiple continents you need to do some serious self reflecting...


----------



## orbital

+

*Civic Type R
*
Hot hatch or boy racer??







Manual trans of *course*


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Ugly as sin boy racer, purchased by rich dad who also has no appreciation for style. :sick2: 

~ Chance


----------



## mcbrat

anyone here do the Hot Rod Magazine Power Tour?


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> *Civic Type R
> *
> Hot hatch or boy racer??
> 
> Manual trans of *course*



I don't understand why all Civics now look like the Honda that was so ugly that it had to be discontinued, the Crosstour; the Type R just looks like a woman's purse designed by Star Wars. All the F40/rally styling slits and slats won't feel so sporty when a base Tesla SoccerMomUV goes sailing right past it in essentially any setting (paddle shifter might help, especially when the Golf R and Mitsu Evo X offer it and are faster with one..) Bring back the collegiate-sharp three-box coupe..


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> I don't understand why all Civics now look like the Honda that was so ugly that it had to be discontinued, the Crosstour; the Type R just looks like a woman's purse designed by Star Wars. All the F40/rally styling slits and slats won't feel so sporty when a base Tesla SoccerMomUV goes sailing right past it in essentially any setting (paddle shifter might help, especially when the Golf R and Mitsu Evo X offer it and are faster with one..) Bring back the collegiate-sharp three-box coupe..



For whatever reason, "inexpensive" performance cars _(scare-quoted because they demand a stout premium over their base-model compact-sedan cousins)_ seem to draw their styling heavily from the cover photos of _*Sport Compact Car*_ (or its contemporary equivalent). Perhaps it has something to do with their target demographic having read said rags for a good decade prior to being able to afford their desired ride. Or maybe the seemingly neverending spew of 'Furious movies.

I've noticed that the latest, bleeding-edge-iest feature on body kits (and possibly OEM trims) seem to be "aero" features that look to be a weird hybrid of anti-shock bodies and the vertical slats running the length of the wing on a MiG-17.


----------



## Father Azmodius

Look fast, or be fast? I prefer the sleeper to the gaudy assault on my vision. The ultimate (production) sleeper.....CTS-V wagon. For the time being I'll have to content myself with a subdued looking B6 S4.


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> cover photos of _*Sport Compact Car*_



Funny story about that; though Sport Compact Car stopped publication years ago, when they were in their prime they got a Civic Si that looked exactly like the one pictured above and did a competition between a few other car magazines on who could do the best upgrades on a fixed budget. SCC began with a good all-around suspension setup and a decal package which literally explained the mods on the body of the car. And then, like every other Civic from that era, the car was stolen. So we'll never actually know what a Sport Compact Car Civic would look like..



Father Azmodius said:


> The ultimate (production) sleeper.....



The Tesla S; it doesn't get more sleeper than a sedan that sails past Italian exotics without making any sound..


----------



## Need a Light?

Can any Tesla be a sleeper? Most know what they are, and are capable of, and they have distinct looks. 

I've always been a fan of a built up Toyota Cressida, nobody knows what they are anymore and they're a sweet car prime for upgrades. And heck, pretty fun stock too, being they're a 4 door N/A Supra.


----------



## Monocrom

Teslas are too well known. A sleeper looks like a crap ride on the outside, with serious performance under the skin. Best sleeper I ever saw was a Chevy Cavalier tricked out only under its sheet-metal.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Best sleeper I ever saw was a Chevy Cavalier tricked out only under its sheet-metal.



They've got this cute hatchback down at your local VW dealer; doesn't look as sporty as the GTI, still has a 4-cyl engine. But it has the same performance numbers as a 90's era Corvette..


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> They've got this cute hatchback down at your local VW dealer; doesn't look as sporty as the GTI, still has a 4-cyl engine. But it has the same performance numbers as a 90's era Corvette..



Must be an R32 then!


----------



## StarHalo

FroggyTaco said:


> Must be an R32 then!



The "32" referred to the displacement of the discontinued VR6 engine, it's now just R; that tiny factoid actually adds to the sleeper element as the only indication of what model this is a small, plain chrome R badge at the front and rear (that's it on the left..)


----------



## Monocrom

NICE! But even though I can drive stick, I need an automatic.


----------



## orbital

Monocrom said:


> NICE! But even though I can drive stick, I need an automatic.




6-speed DSG® automatic transmission with Tiptronic® and Sport mode


----------



## Monocrom

:huh::huh::huh:oo:oo:oo:

Looks like I have a #1 contender for my next car. 

(No, seriously! That is awesome news!! Thank you!!!)


----------



## Bdm82

The Golf R... for someone who wants a little more maturity than an Evo or STI, but doesn't want to go all the way to the S4. Great cars...


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Looks like I have a #1 contender for my next car.
> 
> (No, seriously! That is awesome news!! Thank you!!!)



It's only available in boring colors, there's no sunroof option, and the turning circle isn't good. Other than that, yeah, it pretty much tops my list if I get another car here soon..


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> It's only available in boring colors, there's no sunroof option, and the turning circle isn't good. Other than that, yeah, it pretty much tops my list if I get another car here soon..


 Those are lame reasons to not buy a car & being a VW I would argue the lack of the sunroof improves its reliability.


----------



## orbital

+

Sunroofs cause more problems than good & just get it black

Golf R turning radius = 17'9 
BMW X1 turning radius = 18'7


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Need a Light?

Man, I love sunroofs... (Moon roof? Whatever the fully opening/tilting glass one is). I miss mine every day in my car, the extra visibility is so cool, and makes summer a lot nicer. 

And a tight turning radius is something I also miss from the last far I had (that had the sunroof... Lol) 

But I agree, for the right car, very overlookable.


----------



## Launch Mini

I've opted for a VW Golf GTI with the APR Stage 1 upgrade to the ECU.
I got more comfort creatures than the R, for a whole lot less. It may not be as quick, or AWD, but it is an amazing car.
I was a bit worried after coming out of a string of BMWs ( 135 Coupe with Dinan Stage 2, a 128 Cab, Z4, 325 Sedan...), but have zero regrets.
This thing is plenty quick for me, gets amazing mileage ( after the APR tune, I got 6.1l/100km on a 1,300 road trip), handles well enough for me ( no track days).
I have been told it gets up to 200kph pretty quick with plenty left if needed.
With all the dark crappy weather we have here, I do like the sun/moon roof as it makes it brighter in the vehicle.

I supposedly have 316hp and 384 torque. Not too shabby IMHO.

My 135 had 384hp and 421 torque ( which in a rear wheel car was not always fun)


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Golf R turning radius = 17'9
> BMW X1 turning radius = 18'7



Excellent news, the X1 is very lithe in a parking lot, so anything better would just be gravy..



RBR said:


> Sunroofs are a real grandpa's feature, only topped by wearing hats in cars and crocheted tp-roll caps on back shelfs.



Maybe in Die Vaterland, but in Cali, having any top on your car at all is always more formal than the occasion demands..


----------



## Bdm82

I like moonroofs just for how they break up the roof panel. Never open them as then dust gets in the car. (Yep, I realize...)


Launch Mini said:


> I've opted for a VW Golf GTI with the APR Stage 1 upgrade to the ECU.
> I got more comfort creatures than the R, for a whole lot less. It may not be as quick, or AWD, but it is an amazing car.
> I was a bit worried after coming out of a string of BMWs ( 135 Coupe with Dinan Stage 2, a 128 Cab, Z4, 325 Sedan...), but have zero regrets.
> This thing is plenty quick for me, gets amazing mileage ( after the APR tune, I got 6.1l/100km on a 1,300 road trip), handles well enough for me ( no track days).
> I have been told it gets up to 200kph pretty quick with plenty left if needed.
> With all the dark crappy weather we have here, I do like the sun/moon roof as it makes it brighter in the vehicle.
> 
> I supposedly have 316hp and 384 torque. Not too shabby IMHO.
> 
> My 135 had 384hp and 421 torque ( which in a rear wheel car was not always fun)


That's a great lineup... 135 was one of those I would have liked to have gotten my hands on, but the RWD and the overall size would have relegated it to 3rd car status... and having an enjoyable daily driver is so much more fun!


----------



## Need a Light?

I miss my sunroof? moonroof? (Whatever the glass one that can retract and tilt is) and tight turning circle of my previous car so much. And my current car is the only I've owned younger than me and the most drama free, but I miss RWD and the glass moving roof panel. I like visibility.


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## orbital

+

SUVs' and crossovers are the ultimate functional vehicle, the Golf R is really just a smaller performance version.
I'v driven my brother-in-laws' Cayenne GTS,, noooo grandpa vehicle there 
__ he has like 140K on the odometer....


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## orbital

+

*Allspace *crossover


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Bdm82

RBR said:


> The Tiguan ranks in top ten of models with the oldest drivers here.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how different the patronage obviously is from country to country.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> RBR


Country to country and even region to region. 

I read the turning circle comments and thought "Who cares about turning circles? That's like caring about how fast it can go in reverse."

Here in more rural America, I have never given thought to turning circle. 
Power/speed? Sure. 
Towing? Yep. 
Cargo cap? You bet. 
Creature comforts and design? Of course. 
Mpg? Eventually. 
But turning circle? Nope. 

But that's the different markets for ya!


As for the tiguan, I think older people across the US like small crossovers. They sit higher, so no "falling into" the cars. And better visibility. Easy to park, not overpowered, not expensive. Years ago when the Scion xB came out here they marketed it to the young hipster crowd but found older people were the main buyers.


----------



## Launch Mini

The 2008 and 2009 135's actually had twin turbos, so you could really tune them, then in 2010 BMW went with the Twin Spool ( single turbo), so the upgrade numbers were not as high as with the actual twin turbos.
Was a relatively cheap way to get amazing numbers ( rivaled the M3 and higher than the M1) at the time, from the 135 and 335s


My wife has an X1 as well, It is plenty quick enough for her and handles quite well, again with good mileage. She's eyeing the Tiguan for her next vehicle.


----------



## Need a Light?

Bdm82 said:


> Country to country and even region to region.
> 
> I read the turning circle comments and thought "Who cares about turning circles? That's like caring about how fast it can go in reverse."
> 
> Here in more rural America, I have never given thought to turning circle.
> Power/speed? Sure.
> Towing? Yep.
> Cargo cap? You bet.
> Creature comforts and design? Of course.
> Mpg? Eventually.
> But turning circle? Nope.
> 
> But that's the different markets for ya!
> 
> 
> As for the tiguan, I think older people across the US like small crossovers. They sit higher, so no "falling into" the cars. And better visibility. Easy to park, not overpowered, not expensive. Years ago when the Scion xB came out here they marketed it to the young hipster crowd but found older people were the main buyers.



Interesting, I'm in VT and find turning circle to be of decent importance, I like being able to turn around on back roads in one swing


----------



## FroggyTaco

StarHalo said:


> Excellent news, the X1 is very lithe in a parking lot, so anything better would just be gravy..
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe in Die Vaterland, but in Cali, having any top on your car at all is always more formal than the occasion demands..



Except for when it's too hot, raining, stop & go traffic, too cold, foggy, need to be able to hear the person your talking to on your bluetooth, dust storms, etc... I enjoy our California weather & coastal driving but it's not all peaches'n'cream like that photo implies!


----------



## SCEMan

FroggyTaco said:


> Except for when it's too hot, raining, stop & go traffic, too cold, foggy, need to be able to hear the person your talking to on your bluetooth, dust storms, etc... I enjoy our California weather & coastal driving but it's not all peaches'n'cream like that photo implies!



But you simply close the sunroof under those conditions...
After having a Targa Porsche back in the late 70's, I've had to have a sunroof/moonroof in every car since then.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

SCEMan is James Bond.  That's a shaken, not stirred, martini in his hand. 

~ Chance


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

My STS has a sunroof. Of course here in Washington we call them a shower-roof.  

~ Chance


----------



## SCEMan

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> SCEMan is James Bond.  That's a shaken, not stirred, martini in his hand. ~ Chance



If only 
Taken on my Med retirement cruise...

My current car has a pano moonroof, nice but hot in the summer.


----------



## StarHalo

Bdm82 said:


> Here in more rural America, I have never given thought to turning circle.



You have to park in a parking lot at some point, more so in the city, but it makes no sense to spend on a car that can pick and choose position effortlessly in traffic and then can't negotiate or fit into certain areas of a parking lot. You see this all the time with show trucks out here, the towering lifted super duty monsters that give rides to friends and family, and everyone's smiling and having fun looking down on all the cars, and then the truck pulls into a crowded parking lot and suddenly the faces change to intense concern and worry.. Meanwhile my X1 fits snugly into that not-really-for-parking half-space that has the tree and curb taking up the front third of it. 



RBR said:


> May be a general misunderstanding from me because SUVs are pure pensioners vehicles here.



Not sure Gramps considers this an SUV (the 3-series is 8 inches/20 cm longer..)


----------



## idleprocess

FroggyTaco said:


> Except for when it's too hot, raining, stop & go traffic, too cold, foggy, need to be able to hear the person your talking to on your bluetooth, dust storms, etc... I enjoy our California weather & coastal driving but it's not all peaches'n'cream like that photo implies!



Much more so in TX. The two - sometimes three - weeks of spring/fall don't make up for the six plus months of blazing hot summer and bleak/unpleasant not-summer (mistakenly referred to as "winter").


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Need a Light?

One has to imagine a lot of that is because SUV's in general are much easier to get in/out of than a car.


----------



## Bdm82

SCEMan said:


> If only
> Taken on my Med retirement cruise...
> 
> My current car has a pano moonroof, nice but hot in the summer.


Daytona Grey? Looks more Daytona than Monsoon, but now I wonder if they have a 3rd grey...


----------



## SCEMan

Bdm82 said:


> Daytona Grey? Looks more Daytona than Monsoon, but now I wonder if they have a 3rd grey...


Might be the contrasty lighting, but it's Monsoon...


----------



## StarHalo

The new largest battery/most powerful P100D version of the Tesla S just ran a quarter mile of 10.638s at 124.65 mph dead stock including tires, making it not only the quickest sedan ever, but it's also quicker than any version of the Nissan GT-R ever produced..


----------



## Offgridled

Interesting star!!


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> The new largest battery/most powerful P100D version of the Tesla S just ran a quarter mile of 10.638s at 124.65 mph dead stock including tires, making it not only the quickest sedan ever, but it's also quicker than any version of the Nissan GT-R ever produced.



Now if they could only make it sound like a Ferrari V12 engine...


----------



## Need a Light?

SCEMan said:


> Now if they could only make it sound like a Ferrari V12 engine...




Yes! Though it would be weird to hear it just crank from 0-10k rpm without ever shifting haha


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

SCEMan said:


> Now if they could only make it sound like a Ferrari V12 engine...


 

Like this. :twothumbs 

~ Chance


----------



## Offgridled

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Like this. :twothumbs
> 
> ~ Chance



No love this


----------



## StarHalo

Saw one of these yesterday and it actually got my attention, after many years of Benz offerings that haven't stood out; you can't miss the severely raked nose or the Bentley-esque rear fenders:


----------



## Monocrom

The front end looks like a Subaru Outback. (Maybe that's why they went with that. Looking for more sales.)


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Monocrom said:


> *The front end* looks like a Subaru Outback. (Maybe that's why they went with that. Looking for more sales.)



The lower part reminds me of a Lexus/Manta Ray kinda sorta thing. 

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Lolcan'tturn? Turnanyway..


----------



## orbital

+

...just ram that air in!






Supercharged 707hp *Trackhawk*


----------



## StarHalo

Dodge Demon runs sub-10 second 1/4mi


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Dodge Demon runs sub-10 second 1/4mi



+

Just nuts

Have to start a 'Subscription' for 315/40R18 rears :devil::devil:


----------



## BloodLust

This is Chevy's/Hennesy's answer to the Demon.

Hennesy Exorcist
1000hp. 996 ft-lb torque.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.moto...sey-exorcist-chevrolet-camaro-zl1/amp/?espv=1


----------



## orbital

+

Honda or AMG or whoever
4-door hatchbacks are here to stay.






375 hp @ 6,000 rpm; 350 lb-ft torque
​


----------



## StarHalo

A strange spate of carspotting on my commute the last couple of days, must be the weather. Yesterday was a silver Ferrari F12 behind a silver Ferrari 575 heading up an offramp in the morning, then in the evening, an all-white Porsche GT3 directly behind me in front of the Amazon warehouse out in the middle of industrial nowhere. Then I hear a unique sound flying by the opposite way on tonight's commute home, and catch a glimpse of a white Lamborghini Huracan Spyder..


----------



## orbital

+

Tired of the parking issues in Milwaukee, just make yourself a new spot








_________________ ^ today


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

^ Missed it by that much. 
- Maxwell Smart


----------



## fivemega

*Just wondering, how much will be parking fee? *


----------



## idleprocess

I find myself with a conundrum. My daily driver - 2008 Mazda 3 - is seemingly suffering rod knock, likely from oil deprivation suffered on a road trip with no signs of distress _(i.e. low oil pressure light didn't come on)_ until the last few miles of the journey on the return leg. While there's potential to repair it myself, that task will potentially take a days of sustained effort ... and the vehicle is worth <$4k used, private party. As such, I am looking at new vehicles.

Conditions:

<$35,000
Low OPEX (operating costs) in terms of fuel
Perform better than - or at least similar to - the 3 in terms of fuel economy and performance
If it's a PHEV, it should feature useful electric range sufficient for most of my commute
AWD/RWD is welcome
Better headlights than halogens are preferred - HID or LED
Rear seats are good
Can't be hideous
Some of these interests are moderately exclusive, but that's what overly-involved spreadsheets are for!

I'm not focusing too heavily on colors, options, nor am I too insistent on manual transmissions _(the modern slushbox seems to have about 90% less terribleness than the 4-speed automatics I remember from the 90s)_ at this point.

After devising some ... involved ... calculations and running all the various appealing models through the spreadsheet, I've narrowed it down to the following:

*Chevy Volt*: _Pro_: Best PHEV range in my price range _(save for the expensive and hideous BMW i3)_, lowest OPEX, LED headlamps, seemed to have better acceleration than my 3. _Con_: Expensive at just under $35K, borderline-useless rear seats, FWD, need to buy the much-costlier 
*Nissan Altima/Sentra (SR Midnight)*: These scored well on the spreadsheet but lack appeal in terms of performance.
*Ford Focus ST (ST2)*: _Pro_: Excellent power (put a smile on my face when I drove it), HID headlights, similar economy to the 3. _Con_: FWD (probably going to need a tire budget), the Focus features on Consumer Reports list of 10 worst cars.
*Nissan Altima (3.5SR)*: _Pro_: Decent torque, reasonable economy, actual rear seats, LED headlamps. _Con_:FWD, kinda blah
*Honda Civic Si*: _Pro_: Reasonably-priced, decent economy, a noticeable improvement in torque vs the 3. _Con_: FWD, blah halogen headlights, associating with Civic Si fanboys (thankfully they'll soon migrate to the Civic R).
*Nissan Sentra (SR Midnight Turbo)*: _Pro_: One of the cheaper options, similar to the Altima (LED healdamps, rear seats). _Con_: FWD, smallest-displacement engine in my list that's also turbo, barely better performance than the 3, kinda blah
*Ford Fusion Sport*: _Pro_: V turbo power coupled with AWD with glorious torque, sleeper factor vs most other choices, LED headlamps. _Con_: Expensive, low efficiency.
*Subaru Legacy 2.5i*: _Pro_: Inexpensive, AWD, good economy. _Con_: Worse torque/ton than what it's replacing


----------



## StarHalo

No current 3 or GTI?


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> No current 3 or GTI?



Both scored worse on earlier iterations of the algorithm and got pruned. Also not happy with Mazda right now.


----------



## StarHalo

How'd the GTI get pruned?! That's as good as small cars get under $40k..

There's also the AllTrack if you don't mind leaning harder on the space side of the equation; 200 lb ft to all four wheels though:


----------



## orbital

+

The stop-sale on VW TDi {2Liter} has been lifted,, dealers are asking near retail on minty ones.


----------



## idleprocess

I ran scoring for all categories with numerical values (cost, torque, OPEX) as a percentile, so small differences between any two contenders might result in a whole point difference if it's on the other side of the boundary.



StarHalo said:


> How'd the GTI get pruned?! That's *as good as small cars get under $40k*..



Ah, that's but a matter of what you value in a car...

Re-ran it and of the 41 vehicles I have data 4 it ranked 14. Scored well (9/10) in the 75% weight relative torque category, decent (7, 6) in the 30%/35% respective weight relative power and absolute torque categories. Was hurt scoring a 4 in the full-weight cost category and a 6 in the full-weight OPEX category.

I might look at one, but my confidence in VW's ability to survive the consequences of the diesel emissions scandal is higher than it was several months ago, but not where I'd like it to be just yet.


----------



## StarHalo

I drove a GTI last week; my last batch of test drives were all BMWs, and I arrived in a BMW, and still the VW was entirely enjoyable and not lacking in any way. Car & Driver says roughly the same..


----------



## orbital

+

Anyone dig rotary motors??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omjbbv113qM

_




(the car in front of it has over 600hp)_


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> I drove a GTI last week; my last batch of test drives were all BMWs, and I arrived in a BMW, and still the VW was entirely enjoyable and not lacking in any way. Car & Driver says roughly the same..



Found an error on the spreadsheet and wallah - the GTI scores right with the Focus ST.

Test drove what must be the only GTI Sport with a manual transmission in the region the other day. Enjoyed it much like I did the Focus ST with _perhaps_ a little more turbo lag. Dealer was a little squirrelly and I wasn't quite ready to buy that day, so the hunt goes on.

Need to find a Civic Si _sedan_ to see if I find the drop in performance acceptable in exchange for several grand less financed. Much like the GTI Sport, they're a rare breed in the DFW metromess.


----------



## StarHalo

The Si always had the best instrument cluster in the segment; I miss the old upper-deck speedo of the 2010s models, but the current version's video game-esque mph-in-tach is grand. Glad they finally caved in and went turbo so you can drive it around town, but I just can't work with that styling - the Crosstour was supposed to be a mistake..

Update: Somebody on a Civic forum posted a pic of a for-export/US copy of a Civic Type R window sticker with a final price at just under $35,000..


----------



## Vipre

Toyota FT-1, where you at!?


----------



## orbital

+
_
*fastback..

*_


----------



## idleprocess

Test drove the Si. Felt faster than my 3, but on paper it's barely so. Was still enjoyable but not to the degree of the Focus ST nor the GTI Sport. Headroom is nearly an issue with the standard moonroof (I am rather tall). Headlights are halogens, which disappoints. As an upside, it is some 20% less expensive.

Suspect the Civic Type R will suffer from stupid dealer markup and require expensive packages pricing it >$40k. It also suffers from present unavailability.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner




----------



## idleprocess

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15iLHlJPp_0



The Chevy Malibu ad is also very funny.


----------



## Monocrom

Chauncey Gardiner said:


>





I can't stop laughing! My chest hurts!! This is so fricking funny and accurate! I don't care who gets offended. Every CPFer I respect is definitely too old to be a Millenial (or however the Hell you spell it). Even the generation we have coming into its own, now; even they're more down to Earth.


----------



## orbital

+

Talked to my brother over the weekend & asked him the year of his Jetta TDi 
It's a 2012 with over 140K on the odometer.

He has until 165K to turn it in for the VW buyback (so he'll likely get to the dealer w/ 164,900 on the clock)
$20,000 is what he's getting on the VW settlement ,, $20K 

.. asked him what he's getting next__________the *CX-5 Diesel






*


----------



## FroggyTaco

If they actually release it. I've been hearing about the Mazda diesel for like 6 years now coming to NA


----------



## StarHalo

How have I not seen a car like this in Vegas? (mudding event in Michigan, it's not even on this side of the continent..)


----------



## StarHalo

For Sale: If you don't like the big wing part of RWB's German-Japanese equation, this could be the one for you; find it at Sotheby's in Santa Monica this saturday:


----------



## StarHalo

Ford has announced that the line lock feature will now be standard on all Mustang models, regardless of trim or drivetrain. That means if you get a rental Mustang in the near future, it will have line lock..


----------



## PocketLight88

The rental companies will find a way to disable it once they start having to replace tires on them every month hahaha 

Kudos to Ford for offering it on all models!


----------



## StarHalo

Aston Martin Valkyrie rear view; there's an engine and a couple of seats in that center bit..


----------



## orbital

+

Saw this very car at Road America today, parked by some trees with nothing else around
believe me,, it looks way better in person

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqqRpvkq-qA


*Ontario* plates and yes, it's mid engine


----------



## StarHalo

Question on Quora: *What burns more gas, accelerating as fast as possible to 60 mph (e.g. ~10 seconds) or accelerating slowly (e.g. ~30 seconds)?*

And the answer from a user with a lot of upvotes from collegiate folk: "A few years ago BMW did some tests to answer this question. They found that accelerating at full throttle, but shifting up at relatively low rpm (2500rpm as I recall) was most fuel efficient. Of course this meant they were using a car with a manual transmission. The reason this is most efficient is that an internal combustion engine is most efficient at full throttle. Using part throttle is just forcing the engine to pull air in through a restriction, which wastes energy. On the other hand, the faster the engine turns the more energy is lost to friction. So there’s a kind of optimum at low rpm but full throttle."

So for best MPG, floor it from the stoplight while hustling through the gears briskly, then cruise at a steady state with minimal throttle and RPM. Automatics don't get to play. 

Full article/answers.


----------



## orbital

+ 

Quick funny story..
I saw a County Sheriff pull over an older Z28 with Collector Plates this morning.
The officer got out of his car and walked up to the Z28 to see a foxy blonde driving it,,, he quickly turned around and shut off his flashing lights.lol

I'll put $10 down; that if it was a long haired dude w/ a scruffy beard driving the Z28,* the flashing lights would have stayed On*:ironic:


----------



## Launch Mini

StarHalo said:


> Question on Quora: *What burns more gas, accelerating as fast as possible to 60 mph (e.g. ~10 seconds) or accelerating slowly (e.g. ~30 seconds)?*
> 
> And the answer from a user with a lot of upvotes from collegiate folk: "A few years ago BMW did some tests to answer this question. They found that accelerating at full throttle, but shifting up at relatively low rpm (2500rpm as I recall) was most fuel efficient. Of course this meant they were using a car with a manual transmission. The reason this is most efficient is that an internal combustion engine is most efficient at full throttle. Using part throttle is just forcing the engine to pull air in through a restriction, which wastes energy. On the other hand, the faster the engine turns the more energy is lost to friction. So there’s a kind of optimum at low rpm but full throttle."
> 
> So for best MPG, floor it from the stoplight while hustling through the gears briskly, then cruise at a steady state with minimal throttle and RPM. Automatics don't get to play.
> 
> Full article/answers.



Not a scientific test, but I have noticed this on a few of my cars I've had. Most notably my current Posche Macan S, and prior to that a BMW 135 and BMW 328 Cab.
If you drive them like a granny, the mileage sucks.
For example, on the Macan, staying in Non Sports mode, slowly getting to speed limits, a mix of freeway/city I will have gotten 15.2l/100k.
Having fun in it, selectively using Sports mode ( this does suck gas when stopped), and especially getting to freeway speed quickly, and cruising on freeway at possibly 20k over posted limits, I can easily get it down to 11l/100k.

The 135 with a Dinan tune was a strange beast. On our long road trips, watching the real time fuel consumption, and average consumption, it's sweet spot for driving was between 120-140kph. The aerodynamics seemed to settle the car down & mileage was amazing, for something with 384hp & 421torque.

In Utah, when speed limits increased, and we pushed it a bit harder, the wind resistance was crazy on the MPG, you sold see it drop as speed increased. Not acceleration, but just cruising.

Sorry, had to laught, 0-60mph in 10 seconds. I like around 5 much better.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Well at 140km/h+ you're essentially perpetually accelerating due to the wind resistance/drag compared 100km/h or less


----------



## StarHalo

Launch Mini said:


> Sorry, had to laught, 0-60mph in 10 seconds. I like around 5 much better.



Full throttle but upshifting at 2500 RPM will be closer to 10 seconds..


----------



## leon2245

StarHalo said:


> Ford has announced that the line lock feature will now be standard on all Mustang models, regardless of trim or drivetrain. That means if you get a rental Mustang in the near future, it will have line lock..





Even on v6 mustang? Or no more v6 mustang. Everything is going turbo 4 now. I fear even the v8 might disappear from the mustang.


----------



## StarHalo

leon2245 said:


> Even on v6 mustang? Or no more v6 mustang. Everything is going turbo 4 now. I fear even the v8 might disappear from the mustang.



Correct, no more V6 Mustang. And yes, even the base model 4-cyl 10-speed auto Mustang will have line lock.


----------



## orbital

+

Roger Penske having a prototype team in IMSA starting next year
win~win ____ literally

hotlinked image removed

_____________ Daytona Prototype *DPi* class in Weathertech Championship


----------



## StarHalo

Porsche West Broward has a selection of over 300 Porsches, so what to do when a hurricane is coming - park them all in the building. Just put the GT3s next to the desks, that's fine..


----------



## BloodLust

So looking forward to this with the ecodiesel.

http://www.trucktrend.com/future-trucks/1609-spied-2017-ram-1500-mega-cab/


----------



## StarHalo

Texas Speedway, where the flooded cars are being dumped:


----------



## StarHalo

A brief article by Malcolm Gladwell for _Car and Driver_ on the future of the autonomous car; more era-defining writing that shows why _C&D_ still exists despite it being the anti-magazine era..


----------



## Burgess

Tell me, please --


Would a " Self-Driving car " (or whatever you wish to call it)
be able to function in the setting of:


" Go pick up my kids from School " ?


Because * THAT *
would REALLY be a game-changer !


Just curious . . . .


----------



## StarHalo

Burgess said:


> Would a " Self-Driving car " (or whatever you wish to call it)
> be able to function in the setting of:
> 
> 
> " Go pick up my kids from School " ?



The most likely/likely to be successful application will be city transit, so as long as they're willing to walk to the stop, that's a yes.


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> A brief article by Malcolm Gladwell for _Car and Driver_ on the future of the autonomous car; more era-defining writing that shows why _C&D_ still exists despite it being the anti-magazine era..



An interesting article that's aware of the limits of its perspective. But I think it misses a few things.

As recently as perhaps 10 years ago, one could still plausibly speak of "self-driving cars" as being *network* devices controlled - or heavily coordinated - by a centralized control system with the trust issues the article touches on. But short of using GPS/GLONASS for coarse navigation, all the successful demonstrations of self-driving cars in the last decade or so have been under the control of their own local hardware and sensors with networked data providing secondary / non-critical functionality. If GPS drops, most prototype autonomous vehicles can use inertial nav, fine navigation guidance from LIDAR/RADAR/ultrasonic sensors, and dead reckoning from the speedometer to manage until it returns; if the internet connection goes down then clever Waze routing isn't going to get you around traffic jams. It's surprisingly similar to how humans operate cars, really - sensors to provide _guidance_ (eyes for humans, cameras and other sensors for autonomous cars), network information to provide _navigation_ (maps for humans, GPS/GLONASS for autonomous cars).

I feel that the view on driving as leisure vs utility isn't as simple nor as strongly generational as implied in the piece. 

The baby boomers were the first generation to grow up with cars from birth, during an era of incredible prosperity, and also during a time when it suddenly became possible to conveniently drive almost anywhere in the CONUS. Naturally they took to cars - particularly in an era when used cars were easily within reach of a high school kid. X'ers repeated this ... kind of ... growing up under similar conditions but unlike boomers' parents they weren't experiencing this for the first time. Then the economy soured circa 2000 and X'ers growing up with local eyewitness TV news lived in fear for their children, resulting in a Millenial generation less likely to be able to afford cars and helicopter parents that won't let their kids out of sight to learn some of life's important lessons - but they *do* have smartphones.

Insofar as the *love of driving* the editors of _C&D_ and the producers of _Top Gear_ passionately attempt to keep alive ... we all need mobility, but only a slice of us have a deep-seated need to enjoy driving. 

In the past 10 years I've owned 5 vehicles - '95/'03 Ford Ranger, '96 Ford F150, '08 Mazda 3, '18 Subaru WRX. Of those, only the Mazda 3 and Subaru WRX were routinely fun to drive, but damned pedestrian relative to what the denizens of this thread lust over. 90+ minutes of commuting with 2 reasonable routes to work leaves me dealing with a lot of traffic; the precious few interesting bits are also generally occupied with other drivers whom have no interest in moving through a turn at decent speed nor accelerating onto the highway at a pace that pleases me, often limiting the 'joy' of my commute to an occasional roll on the throttle to make a nice pass. If I could recover that commute time doing _almost anything_ other than avoiding collision with my fellow commuters and passively listening to the radio, it would be worth a longer commute.

When one looks at the vehicles that sell and what needs they address, it appears that the market is by and large interested in _mobility_ rather than _driving_. FWD econoboxes of all shapes and sizes predominate - be it sedans, wagons, crossovers, minivans - and the sort of vehicle that excites _C&D_ - RWD, large-displacement V8, manual everything - is hard to find outside of performance and luxury marquees. Driving convenience seems to be the thing, with automatic-everything and a cushiony ride being valued most.

As such, I feel the market is more ripe for autonomy than _C&D_ cares to admit. They're likely spot-on that figuring out how to use the technology will be a longer challenge than implementing it. But I suspect that industry has an idea where this is going already - namely that mobility will transition towards becoming a service rather than a product:

*No longer a status symbol* : First and foremost, when the self-driving car can simply appear when needed then disappear when no longer needed, why should the average person own it? You can get into and exit from the vehicle at points most convenient for you, letting the vehicle mind the details of parking. The opportunity to impress one's peers will be reduced to that of the valet desk at a fancy restaurant or hotel - only less since people of ordinary means will be using these things in growing numbers. Timeliness of availability and the overall pleasantness of the ride are likely to be what matters, much like how one likely doesn't much care what model of taxi or airliner one rides on if it's clean, pleasant, and otherwise an efficient journey.
*Markedly greater cost to produce/own* : These vehicles are also likely to be expensive for the first iterations due to the numerous sensors and computing platforms needed. Prices are coming down, but they're still a non-trivial additional cost in addition to the massive R&D burdens to be recouped for the integration and software. Initial customers are taxi and ride-sharing companies, who can manage higher costs since they produce revenue with them and use them at far higher duty rates than commuters. With this business model in mind, there's a clear pathway to building these vehicles for operator's TCO calculations - more expensive than private passenger vehicles, but more durable and maintainable in exchange. Insurance might also be troublesome for individuals to manage as well.
*Far more regulation* : It's not hard to imagine regulators treating autonomous vehicles less like automobiles, more like _aircraft_. I can envision a more aviation-style production process with chain-of-custody and tight process-control documentation requirements. Vehicles may well be certified off the line then re-certified periodically. Maintenance will likely be far more regimented than today's automobiles. Entire categories of components and systems will be effectively off-limits for upgrade/modification lest it interfere with safe autonomy.

I foresee big changes in how we live and work once we start to transition to autonomous vehicles in the future. Garages, parking lots, and even the structure of our presently-sprawling cities - all intended to deal with mass ownership of personal vehicles - will adapt over time to more and more of us using nearly on-demand transportation. Heck, using autonomous cars for the last-mile between endpoints and more traditional mass transit points might alter the infrastructure calculus in unusual ways.


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> An interesting article that's aware of the limits of its perspective. But I think it misses a few things.



That article is only the first in a lengthy series of them covering the topic exhaustively in the new issue, I'd link you to the set but they don't have it on the site yet. But the new issue also reviews the new Jeep Trackhawk, and the old 2002 Lamborghini Murcielago that has 250,000 miles on it..

And your commute time is determined by the stoplights, not cruising speed unless it's abnormally below the average for that route.


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> And your commute time is determined by the stoplights, not cruising speed unless it's abnormally below the average for that route.



My commute is about 95% highway, so it's far more a matter of ~30 mile distance and congestion than the 4 stoplights one way and the 7 stoplights the other way _(different highways morning and afternoon because glorious DFW traffic patterns and some "fun" geography at the edge of my town forcing a few extra miles/lights on surface streets on the return leg)_. Smashing the gas and passing _with assertiveness_ in the afternoon can make a marked difference due to less volume of traffic than the morning leg where construction and stupid human tricks combined with volume make it slower.


----------



## StarHalo

Have you used Waze?


----------



## FroggyTaco

Not interested in being tracked that overtly


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> Have you used Waze?



I've used the adaptive routing on my phone before and found it kind of useless saving me little if any time with untimely changes and the usual pitfalls of GPS: using the least-prominent name for a road and emphasizing trivial routing information over critical information (keep right at the highway fork but then tells me afterwards that I needed to be in the right lane to exit).


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> I've used the adaptive routing on my phone before and found it kind of useless saving me little if any time



But how do you know how much time was saved if you don't know how long your default route took in that moment 

Waze is not-optional in Cali, there's at least a half dozen ways for me to get to/from work and choosing wrong means the difference between a 30 min drive and an hour's drive. On any trip that takes more than one highway, even if I know the straightest route, I will always have Waze on.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Track me, smack me. If it cuts 30 minutes of me being stuck in stop - n - go traffic.... count me in. :twothumbs

~ Chance


----------



## BloodLust

It depends on the area. Waze learns the more people use it. It plugs in data from current users. For example, a few users took the route I'm about to take, it bases the info relayed to me on their travel. Speed, traffic, etc.

Since commercial GPS has been around developed countries for several years already (Magellan, TomTom, Garmin, etc.), a lot still use them which is why it took a while for Waze to be adopted. Since there are less users too, especially for those away from large metropolitan areas, Waze hasn't learned as much as some places.
Also, Google in developed countries is quite complete and people would use Maps since it's already built in rather than download another app.

Google where I'm from can't even give a bus number or a train schedule, and most users are in the city just trying to look for a shorter route.

I started with Waze and Nokia Maps when they 1st came out. They didn't even have a map overlay. It was just showing a car over a blank area. I'm an early adopter.) Often they would only suggest 1 route because that's the only one the app has learned or in their database.


----------



## StarHalo

StarHalo said:


> That article is only the first in a lengthy series of them covering the topic exhaustively in the new issue, I'd link you to the set but they don't have it on the site yet.



The entire suite of articles on the autonomous car from the November issue.


----------



## StarHalo

Hm, well that's a new one; glad I stopped for gas tonight:


----------



## StarHalo

Johnny Bohmer's street-legal BADD GT; this Ford GT40 makes 2,700 emissions-compliant horsepower and has air conditioning/license plates/insurance, but here it loses boost at 292.9 MPH. Then the parachute rips. Then the rear rotors shatter. But this is how close we are to a 300 MPH street-legal car (it's tuned for a realistic ~310.)


----------



## StarHalo

The cockpit view of 284 mph in a street-legal *production* car on a [closed] public road; skip to ~4:00 and cackle evilly as the driver applies more throttle through each gear so the car accelerates harder from 175 mph:


----------



## StarHalo

This thread turns 8 years old later this week, and we just crossed half a million views, well played gents..

In other news: From the cars-I-forgot-about file, the 1991-92 Dodge Spirit R/T: A K-car with a 224hp Lotus-Chrysler turbo engine (1hp less than the Ford Mustang GT of the time,) 5-speed Getrag manual transmission (auto not available,) disc brakes all around with optional ABS, 0-60 in ~6 seconds, 14.5 sec quarter mile (on par with same-year Mustang/Camaro/Firebird,) top speed 141mph. 1,400 sold total.


----------



## StarHalo

Somebody posted audio of the new Corvette ZR1; it sounds exactly like the infamous Pantera at 2:28 - how they got a boosted front-engine car to sound like a rear-engined one is quite a feat of engineering..


----------



## StarHalo

Saw this Dodge Ram compact on the road today, clever little design:


----------



## StarHalo

More artful than ice skating (now put it back in the climate-controlled garage..)


----------



## StarHalo

Hm.. (Tokyo Auto Salon; the Prius is available in AWD in Japan..)


----------



## StarHalo

The Hellcat-motored 707 hp Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk vs the Tesla SUV; combustion, quaint..


----------



## StarHalo

*Ford Motor Company*'s first-quarter financial report released today announces that they are *discontinuing all sedans and small cars in their portfolio* in North America, except for the Mustang and the upcoming Focus Active crossover. The current model cycle for the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Taurus, and C-Max is the last, the company will not be investing in any further generations of these models.


----------



## StarHalo

*Dodge* is bringing back the *Viper* as a '20/'21 model.

Also: The upcoming Marvel movie gives us yet another creative use for a flatbed:


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## StarHalo

Around town with Starhalo: You'd think a freshly unboxed copy of the new hot item would include badges (Tesla 3)





Nobody was up to parking next to this guy, so I volunteered since our cars are so similar. Both have four wheels. (Ferrari 458)


----------



## FroggyTaco

I was able to drive one of my clients Model 3 last week for about 6 miles that they just received a few weeks prior to that. It's quite the car & I strongly suggest people at least take one for a test drive if they are given the opportunity. 

So many neat details & the car UI/controls are very intuitive. It really surprised me on that level.

Once the dual motor version releases it will be even more impressive on the performance front.


----------



## idleprocess

FroggyTaco said:


> I was able to drive one of my clients Model 3 last week for about 6 miles that they just received a few weeks prior to that. It's quite the car & I strongly suggest people at least take one for a test drive if they are given the opportunity.
> 
> So many neat details & the car UI/controls are very intuitive. It really surprised me on that level.



So ... what were your specific impressions of what seems to be the Model 3's most controversial design choice - most controls on that massive stalk-mounted center touchscreen?


----------



## FroggyTaco

If you own & use a smartphone it will be a very natural adaptation IMO. With my albeit brief time in the drivers seat basically the majority of the "settings" are essentially "one time" programming & then unless your preference changes you won't need to adjust it again.

Also the steering wheel has two very innovative control knob/dials. Think of a console joystick d-pad with a PC mouse wheel. They are placed so that you operate them with your thumbs & easily adjust stereo volume, or cruise control in 1 mph increments up or down(as low as 19mph btw), etc so control is again very intuitive & non-distracting. 

The "gear shift" handle/lever is where the windshield wiper stalk would be & is a super simple up for reverse, & down for Drive control with a very nice tactile detents at the end of movement range to positively know that you have correctly completed the intended action.

One essential thing that most people perhaps don't yet realize myself included until I had the literal hands on opportunity to play with everything is how Tesla takes the established concept of "Driver seat/mirror" position memory to a whole new level. Again think of a Phone/desktop login. The car has the ability to save multiple profiles & either via your phone bluetooth or a credit card "key" when you approach & step into the car it identifies which profile gets into the drivers seat & auto configures the car to the pre-saved preferences so everything is already configured to your liking.


----------



## idleprocess

FroggyTaco said:


> If you own & use a smartphone it will be a very natural adaptation IMO. With my albeit brief time in the drivers seat basically the majority of the "settings" are essentially "one time" programming & then unless your preference changes you won't need to adjust it again.
> 
> Also the steering wheel has two very innovative control knob/dials. Think of a console joystick d-pad with a PC mouse wheel. They are placed so that you operate them with your thumbs & easily adjust Head unit volume, or cruise control in 1 mph increments up or down(as low as 19mph btw), etc so control is again very intuitive & non-distracting.



On my vehicles, I often adjust the following during a drive:

Headlights
Windshield wipers
Cruise control on/of
Cruise control speed adjust
Cruise control cancel/resume
Head unit on/off
Head unit volume/mute
Head unit change source
Head unit browse songs
Head unit change audio track / tune radio
Bluetooth accept/terminate call
Climate control on/off
Climate control mode
Climate control fan speed
Climate control temperature

Most of these can be done from steering wheel controls or control stalks. But some require the touchscreen on the head unit.

While I find the head unit touch screen UI reasonably intuitive, it's a bit frustrating at times because it often doesn't register a touch or since I'm in a moving car and there's no _boundary_ on a given UI control element it's more difficult to hit and requires more concentration than a physical switch.

I'm sure that some of the above functions are automated and some have migrated to the steering wheel controls, but how many require a visit to that touchscreen?


----------



## StarHalo

But 307 lb ft @ 1 RPM, and _the view_..


----------



## FroggyTaco

idleprocess said:


> On my vehicles, I often adjust the following during a drive:
> 
> Headlights
> Windshield wipers
> Cruise control on/of
> Cruise control speed adjust
> Cruise control cancel/resume
> Head unit on/off
> Head unit volume/mute
> Head unit change source
> Head unit browse songs
> Head unit change audio track / tune radio
> Bluetooth accept/terminate call
> Climate control on/off
> Climate control mode
> Climate control fan speed
> Climate control temperature
> 
> Most of these can be done from steering wheel controls or control stalks. But some require the touchscreen on the head unit.
> 
> While I find the head unit touch screen UI reasonably intuitive, it's a bit frustrating at times because it often doesn't register a touch or since I'm in a moving car and there's no _boundary_ on a given UI control element it's more difficult to hit and requires more concentration than a physical switch.
> 
> I'm sure that some of the above functions are automated and some have migrated to the steering wheel controls, but how many require a visit to that touchscreen?



Take a look at the steering wheel controls. The left side handles ALL of your audio control concerns. The Right side handles all of your cruise control concerns. It wasn't raining & I didn't notice any wiper control so I would presume it's auto controlled & again you have total control over it's operation but once you find your preference the car will scale its performance based upon speed & rain intensity so the whole point is less user input required.

I didn't mess with the climate control but I have become a huge fan of any vehicles "Auto" setting because it's literally the most efficient option 95% of the time & again you let the cars computers micromanage the details. The nice part about the large screen is the "buttons" on the touchscreen are 2-4x bigger than your thumb so it's easy to make a positive input choice.

I didn't use the car's phone bluetooth to answer or hang up a call so I can't comment on that aspect.

The attached owners manual shows how much extra thought this cars software has compared to other cars:


----------



## StarHalo

A very cherry MG coupe; drive at eye-level with the door handles on other cars..





Wasn't me this time; seeing them side-by-side it's strange that there's not a whole lot of difference in their basic silhouettes:


----------



## heelsthrow

Do you have any project cars?


----------



## SCEMan

Starting to become a fairly common new story... :shakehead

https://www.dailybulletin.com/2018/...-husbands-tesla-shot-flames-while-in-traffic/


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

SCEMan said:


> Starting to become a fairly common new story... :shakehead
> 
> https://www.dailybulletin.com/2018/...-husbands-tesla-shot-flames-while-in-traffic/



WOW! That is some serious flame. Imagine it happening while stuck in bumper to bumper traffic on a multi lane highway....... Gas cars go BOOM! 

~ Chance


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

heelsthrow said:


> Do you have any project cars?



This was my last project. Had it done by professionals. - 







25 hours to remove this. - 






Then replace it with this. - 






Almost ready to be buttoned up, but one, not so obvious, missing part from the beginning still needs to be purchased and installed. Any keen eyed mechanics able to identify the missing part? 






Also, where's the flashlight? 

~ Chance


----------



## ven

Viscous fan maybe and radiator? 

Got to love a v8:naughty:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

ven said:


> Viscous fan maybe and radiator?
> 
> Got to love a v8:naughty:



OYE! I wrote not so obvious.... :nana: 

~ CG 

Overhead cams to boot. -


----------



## SCEMan

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> WOW! That is some serious flame. Imagine it happening while stuck in bumper to bumper traffic on a multi lane highway....... Gas cars go BOOM!
> 
> ~ Chance



Maybe it was one of Musk's "blowtorch option" models :thinking:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

SCEMan said:


> Maybe it was one of Musk's "blowtorch option" models :thinking:



"OK, It's not a blowtorch, now."
- Elon Musk


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## StarHalo

To be auctioned: 1985 Porsche 959 Group B Paris-Dakar rally car, 1 of 3. Expected $3M+. Paging Mr. Seinfeld..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Jerry has never impressed me as an off-road kinda guy. I think he's only thrown up once since June 28th 1980. Damn the black n white cookie.  

~ Chance 



 Well, it didn't take long for me to be proven wrong. See the new episode of Comedians In Cars Getting Coffeé.


----------



## turbodog

*any 64 cobra owners?*

Am in the market... Would like to get feedback from current/past owners.


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: any 64 cobra owners?*



turbodog said:


> Am in the market... Would like to get feedback from current/past owners.



The "replica classic" versions have significantly better performance than the original since you're essentially starting as a restomod, that's about what I know..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Please do not change the thread title. 

~ CG


----------



## 59ride

HSV GTO LS3 6.2 litre, 485 rwhp, 890Nm torque, 6 speed, cam and head work, loads of internal upgrades


----------



## idleprocess

59ride said:


> HSV GTO LS3 6.2 litre, 485 rwhp, 890Nm torque, 6 speed, cam and head work, loads of internal upgrades



Power in SAE, torque in metric. I'm so confused 🤣


----------



## turbodog

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Please do not change the thread title.
> 
> ~ CG



Was not me. I started a new thread. Think someone merged it into this one.

fyi


----------



## 59ride

361rwkw :naughty:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

turbodog said:


> Was not me. I started a new thread. Think someone merged it into this one.
> 
> fyi


 
Something as awesomely cool as a 64 Cobra should have its own thread. It'd make it a lot easier to find and follow too. The pictures alone would be worth a separate thread.  

~ CG


----------



## turbodog

One of the 'top' replica makers is Unique Motorcars in Gadsden, AL. Wife and I stopped in there this past Friday. Spent about 3 hours touring the shop and riding.

Not as loud as I would have figured. Driver's foot area is pushed way to the left... there's only so much room left after you take out a chunk for the engine.

Drive shaft is 11" long. Let that sink in for a moment.

Learned a lot about their process/product. They do make a fine car. Figure I'll pick one up about 12-18 months from now, depending on cash flow.

Even though we live close enough to drive it home, he said this was a bad idea. Seems people on the interstate will just stay alongside you to look at the car. I think that pressing the pedal on the right could solve that problem!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

turbodog said:


> ...
> Even though we live close enough to drive it home, he said this was *a bad idea*. Seems people on the interstate will just stay alongside you to look at the car. I think that pressing the pedal on the right could solve that problem!



A friend of mine owned one of these. - His also had the decals.






One beautiful summer day he let The Lovely Mrs. Gardiner and I take it for a ride. I had never experienced so much attention. Everybody I looked at was looking at the car and or us. After a few minutes it became very disconcerting, especially when we got stuck in stop n go traffic driving through Point Defiance park. Almost 30 years later, I still remember it like it happened yesterday. 

While I'd be thrilled to own a Cobra, I wouldn't want to drive it anywhere but out in the country-side, sans all the attention. 

~ Chance


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

We've owned this for about 2.5 years. Wonderful V8 power and lots of 09 goodies. Hardly anyone gives it a second [email protected]@K, if even a glance. 

~ CG 






I bought this SJW T-shirt to go with the Caddy. :nana:


----------



## abong

from all the unique and expensive car, i still fall in love with this gems


----------



## geepondy

So Chevy reps were demoing the all electric Chevy Bolt at our work parking lot. I thought of Darryl the EV guy for those that remember. I asked the reps if they ever heard of the Chevy EV from about 15 years ago and they had not.


----------



## StarHalo

geepondy said:


> So Chevy reps were demoing the all electric Chevy Bolt at our work parking lot. I thought of Darryl the EV guy for those that remember. I asked the reps if they ever heard of the Chevy EV from about 15 years ago and they had not.



Darell ****ey and the GM EV1; you would definitely prefer the Bolt.


----------



## FroggyTaco

geepondy said:


> So Chevy reps were demoing the all electric Chevy Bolt at our work parking lot. I thought of Darryl the EV guy for those that remember. I asked the reps if they ever heard of the Chevy EV from about 15 years ago and they had not.



Try 19-22 years ago! Time flies when you're having fun..or not 

EV1 was amazing for it's time


----------



## StarHalo

As a kid growing up in the midwest, a few members of my family owned 70's-era Chevy trucks which were very common back then; Blake Greenfield Chevrolet-Buick has prepared some late-model Silverados for customers with era-correct C/K paint and remarkably similar mag wheels, which to me is almost confusing in how similar it looks to those older trucks:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Yeah, that does tend to mess with the mind.  I inherited my father's 1974 Chevy 3/4 ton PU three years ago. It has a 454 ci motor with low miles. Plan on passing it on to one of my sons some day. 

~ Chance


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> As a kid growing up in the midwest, a few members of my family owned 70's-era Chevy trucks which were very common back then; Blake Greenfield Chevrolet-Buick has prepared some late-model Silverados for customers with era-correct C/K paint and remarkably similar mag wheels, which to me is almost confusing in how similar it looks to those older trucks:



Yes, very confusing. But it sure looks good!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Monocrom said:


> Yes, very confusing. But it sure looks good!



Indeed. As we used to say back in the day, "It's bitchin!" 

~ Chance


----------



## StarHalo

Mr. Banks of Banks Power shows you what happens inside of a rear diff as it happens:


----------



## StarHalo

Car and Driver's Lightning Lap is back, some highlights:

- Porsche's million dollar supercar 918 Spyder with its all-wheel-drive hybrid layout is now bested by a rear-wheel-drive gas 911 model, by a huge margin and a third of the price.

- The Corvette vs Porsche war is so heated that even the new McLaren 720S was unable to keep up with the pair.

- BMW's M5 sedan is quicker around the course than a Dodge Viper, Audi R8 V10, or Ariel Atom.

- The Honda Accord uses 1mm of brake pad per lap, which means it could theoretically do ten laps before the brakes needed to be replaced.

- All 5,300 lbs of the Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk gets around the track within ~3 seconds of the same engine in the Charger:


----------



## Monocrom

Very interesting numbers.


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> - All 5,300 lbs of the Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk gets around the track within ~3 seconds of the same engine in the Charger:



Neat. Until I saw the price. 87k vs 32k base. Not sure there's *170%* more car there from my wallet's perspective but it's not like I'm shopping for rides anyway.


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> Neat. Until I saw the price. 87k vs 32k base. Not sure there's *170%* more car there from my wallet's perspective but it's not like I'm shopping for rides anyway.



You're looking at _maybe_ achieving double digits MPG in town, so the list price won't really concern the prospective buyer..


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> You're looking at _maybe_ achieving double digits MPG in town, so the list price won't really concern the prospective buyer..



... whom is likely to have a garage boasting square footage similar to my entire house that's perpetually packed to the gills with both daily drivers _and_ weekend-mobiles.

It's limited-run sizzle vs the mass-produced steak that everyone else buys. I'm just always wondering where they keep finding market for such things and to what extent it helps sell the steak with little similarity beyond badging and overall platform.


----------



## StarHalo

Saw this for the first time tonight; GT tail lights on a Mustang, very eye-catching:


----------



## Monocrom

I don't know. Just somehow doesn't seem right on a Mustang. At first glance, I thought I was looking at a new Maserati.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

The one on the left looks OK. However, the one on the right, that is shown to actually be protruding.....  

I love the blue paint, though. Beautiful color. :thumbsup:

~ Chance


----------



## SCEMan

Anyone know what model Ferrari this is? I saw it on vacation last summer parked in Nuremberg Old Town.


----------



## archimedes

F430 Spider ?


----------



## StarHalo

It is indeed an F430 Spider, from ~a decade ago but still worth six figures..


----------



## archimedes

Saw one earlier this year in Florida, "painted" with a full chrome finish ... not "silver" , completely mirror reflective :sick2:


----------



## SCEMan

I can only imagine how that would ride on cobblestone streets...


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Again with the tail lights.  

~ Chance


----------



## Minimoog

How easy is it to get spare parts for your car?
To me its one of the main worries of owning a car these days - that I can't get bits that I need. It seems that dealers no longer have all the spare parts that they used to out the back, and gone are the days when the storesman would have a rummage and get you on your way. I miss that. Online ordering is just a gamble, and what is shown in the photo is not often what you get.

I remember dealers often had a breaking car or two out the back and said 'help yourself' and then I showed what I took off the the stores manager and he said 'call it a fiver' and I was happy.

It made it so easy and made looking after the car do-able. Now the dealers are no longer like that and as I said, it is a worry. I just want a bit of expert help to get me the parts I need.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Electric Hot Rods! :twothumbs


----------



## FroggyTaco

Minimoog said:


> How easy is it to get spare parts for your car?
> To me its one of the main worries of owning a car these days - that I can't get bits that I need. It seems that dealers no longer have all the spare parts that they used to out the back, and gone are the days when the storesman would have a rummage and get you on your way. I miss that. Online ordering is just a gamble, and what is shown in the photo is not often what you get.
> 
> I remember dealers often had a breaking car or two out the back and said 'help yourself' and then I showed what I took off the the stores manager and he said 'call it a fiver' and I was happy.
> 
> It made it so easy and made looking after the car do-able. Now the dealers are no longer like that and as I said, it is a worry. I just want a bit of expert help to get me the parts I need.



Where do you live? I live in California & aside from junkyards, it's basically never been like that. If anything parts are WAY easier to source between multiple local parts stores & the dealer + other dealers selling online at a nice discount if you need or want the OEM part. Granted you need to know what you're ordering but that's true of anything.


----------



## Minimoog

FroggyTaco said:


> Where do you live? I live in California & aside from junkyards, it's basically never been like that. If anything parts are WAY easier to source between multiple local parts stores & the dealer + other dealers selling online at a nice discount if you need or want the OEM part. Granted you need to know what you're ordering but that's true of anything.



I'm in the UK. When getting a car one of the first things I used to do was visit a few local dealers and chat about spares and repair. Out the back was often an Alladins cave of bits and when they had a stock clear out sometimes they would keep me in mind and let me have stuff for free like a new cylinder head, brake disks and sets of headlights. Now nothing like that any more and that was only 15 years ago.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Ah, thanks for letting me know. It's always fascinating how different countries & cultures handle essentially the same situations so differently


----------



## StarHalo

GM's list of discontinued cars, discontinued plants, discontinued employees:


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## idleprocess

RBR said:


> Why don’t you guys buy US/Ford/GM cars anymore?


A simple question with numerous, hotly-debated answers.

Domestic low- and mid-end sedans have never been terribly popular with US buyers for a variety of reasons. 

The _European_ versions of the numerous models that Ford and now GM have cancelled are made out in the automotive press to be these surprisingly awesome vehicles that are inexplicably withheld from the USDM for reasons never really explained to anyone's satisfaction. The reality is likely far more complicated.

I've always found something deeply unsatisfactory about most domestic sedans. Huge yet cramped. Middling fuel economy yet marginal performance. Styling that's just *nope*. More elements of execution that seem _phoned in_ than their overseas competitors. The trims/packages game is that much more aggravating to get the features you want.

As much money as Detroit has figured out they can make with trucks it's no surprise that the Big 3 have all stepped back from sedans in recent years.


----------



## Monocrom

RBR said:


> Why don’t you guys buy US/Ford/GM cars anymore?



Oooo.... Things could get heated awfully fast with that question. But I'll give you an honest reply. Every single automotive journalist, the ones who literally make a living at testing countless cars each year, will say the same thing. If you want quality, if you want a passenger car that lasts, gives you very few headaches over the years, and won't make your wallet look anorexic, while being a good value for your money.... Buy a Toyota, or a Honda. (Nissan used to be included as well, but that was before they got bought out by Renault. And the quality of current Nissans isn't what it used to be.)

For Japanese brands there's a factor that sad to say, just isn't there with American ones. To Japanese workers in Japan, it's not simply a matter of pride in making excellent vehicles; but a matter of Honor as well. Tough to describe, but that's just how it is. The concept of Shame and "Bringing Shame upon oneself and family" that's a very real thing to them. Just one factor why American car companies are having a harder time competing with Japanese ones. Even when the Japanese make critical mistakes, they bounce back very quickly.

Also, they seem to be run by more intelligent executives. Look at all the mistakes GM has made over the years to get to the point they are at now. Intentionally ignored the marketplace. Intentionally gave some of their core customer base the finger, while attempting to cater to other segments of the market. 

Pontiac dead. Why in the world would you introduce an SUV into your Sporty car brand? Oldsmobile dead. Why would you intentionally spend millions on R&D to introduce a new line of models that your core customer base does not want? (Yes, the Intrigue, Aurora, and even the Alero have nice styling. But they look ridiculous wearing Oldsmobile badges.) Discontinuing the 88 was another nail in Oldsmobile's coffin. Hummer dead. Stick with military sales of the H1. make it in a handful of different configurations FOR THE MILITARY. Once all the macho guys bought H1s when they were offered to civilians during the first year, sales plummeted! Rather than pull out, they introduced two more models! No one wants a dressed up in Army fatigues Chevy Suburban with FAR less room inside than a normal Suburban. And no one wants an even more cramped H3, or mini Hummer?? That's pretty much what it was.

General incompetence, arrogance, and a refusal to listen to custom needs & wants has lead GM to this. Chrysler has struggled for decades to shake its image of making poor quality cars. Ford has done better than the other two overall, but that's really not saying much. Consumers vote with their wallets. And they're sick of being ignored, and driving lesser quality cars compared to Toyota and Honda.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> GM's list of discontinued cars, discontinued plants, discontinued employees:



That's just really unfortunate to see that. But again, we have another example of GM's incompetent executives. Chevy Impala and Cruze both being discontinued. I can tell you that both of those models enjoy excellent fleet sales among various different law-enforcement agencies. I can't get into specifics, but part of my night shift job involves patrolling a handful of huge parking lots. Where I work at, we have a bunch of different Local, State, and even Federal agencies all in one location. 

Give you guys one guess what the two most prominent vehicles with law-enforcement plates happen to be in those parking lots.


----------



## MeMeMe

Monocrom said:


> For Japanese brands there's a factor that sad to say, just isn't there with American ones. To Japanese workers in Japan, it's not simply a matter of pride in making excellent vehicles; but a matter of Honor as well. Tough to describe, but that's just how it is. The concept of Shame and "Bringing Shame upon oneself and family" that's a very real thing to them. Just one factor why American car companies are having a harder time competing with Japanese ones. Even when the Japanese make critical mistakes, they bounce back very quickly.



The vast majority of Japanese branded vehicles sold in North America are made in North America. The Camry has the highest North American content of any car made in North America.

While lambasting executives, let's not forget arrogant unions.

Ford and Chevrolet are currently crushing Toyota and Honda in initial quality, and when you look at 3 year reliability, Chevrolet is now giving Toyota a run and the difference between Honda and Ford is not very big. Nissan who has slipped in initial quality, does okay in longer term studies. Poor MFG perhaps, but better engineering.

Japanese still seem to win in vehicle dynamics, but that is closing too. Overall better balance in their designs. Ford/Chevrolet seem to be 95% right, but then screw up 5% badly, though Ford of late I don't think can be accused of that.

Most of the concepts of reliability are based on long memories, not current realities. Unfortunately, NA car companies did not have the previously cheap labor of a Hyundai to continue to sell cars cheaply while they worked on quality. Hyundai quality is now world class, and their wages are right up there in the world too.


----------



## Minimoog

US cars always had a sort of mysterious appeal to me in the UK. Never available in RHD, they were seen only in photographs and films. Why didn't they make RHD drive and make some for export? Would have been a good alternative.

In the UK we were offered for years 800-1100 CC cars and you had to make do. 1300 CC was seen as 'sporty' and if you had a 1600 then you were likely needing to explain to others why you needed a 1.6. I have a 1.9 TDI hatchback and when I rang up for insurance the woman at the other end said 'that's a lot' and I said its only a basic turbodeisel but it soon pushed the premium up.

Its not so bad these days, but so many cars could barely move their occupants and even a slight hill needed second or even first gear - and the car may still come back down unable to complete the slope. 30-40 BHP is fine for the flat but get into top and on a slight hill and you just slow down. Even headwinds slow you down.

Its probably a distant hark-back to WW2 fuel rationing but I wished years ago that the rather nice cars available (70's and 80's) had an engine that could move them properly.

A speedo 90 MPH downhill (real 84/5) used to be the absolute max most cars could muster - bigger cars with bigger engines still did not have enough power to get beyond this.

I still have my first car - a 1987 Skoda Estelle 105 - has 44 BHP. I don't think the US got Skoda, but the UK has lots. Made in CZ.


----------



## Monocrom

MeMeMe said:


> The vast majority of Japanese branded vehicles sold in North America are made in North America. The Camry has the highest North American content of any car made in North America.



The head executives are still Japanese though. And that mentality still exists with them. Also, while some Japanese cars are indeed made in America, I was specifically referring to models still made in Japan.



> While lambasting executives, let's not forget arrogant unions.


No doubt the Unions deserve a fair share of the blame. However, as you pointed out, many of the popular Japanese models are made here in America too. Toyota and Honda have to deal with Unions as well. Yet they simply don't seem to be having the issues with them that traditional American car companies are having.

Though you do bring up an excellent point. The next time someone shouts "Buy American!" You can show off your Toyota Camry and say, "I did." 



> Ford and Chevrolet are currently crushing Toyota and Honda in initial quality, and when you look at 3 year reliability, Chevrolet is now giving Toyota a run and the difference between Honda and Ford is not very big. Nissan who has slipped in initial quality, does okay in longer term studies. Poor MFG perhaps, but better engineering.



For someone who is leasing, you bring up an excellent point. I've had my Mazda 6 V6 going on 10 years this upcoming February. Zero major issues with it. A few minor ones. But that's to be expected on a car pushing a Decade. More and more folks are keeping cars longer and longer. I mean, with the exception of buying a house, buying a car is the single item you're going to spend the most amount of money on. With trucks and SUVs, the traditional brands are doing well. But again, both Toyota and Honda have shown they can do excellent jobs in that regard too. (Admittedly, Honda's automatic tranny selection on their bigger vehicles tend to be a little weak in terms of performance. But that's about the worst problem they have.) 

I live in a working class neighborhood. I see a lot of older cars. And I'm sorry but you simply will not see GM, Ford, or Dodge vehicles from a decade ago; here. You won't. You will see plenty of older Civics, Camrys, Corollas, and Accords. And in that order. Every GM, Ford, and Dodge are all newer models. 

Ford has actually given up on cars! They've tossed in the white flag. Literally every single passenger car from Ford is being eliminated. Except for the Mustang and possibly one other model I believe. But Ford no longer even wants to compete with Honda and Toyota in the passenger car segment. Ford quit and took its ball home with it (in that segment). That's a pretty glaring declaration. Ford basically admitted their sales are down, they can't compete with other car brands, and they're not willing to put in the money and effort to turn the situation around. So they're going to just cut their losses and not bother trying anymore. 



> Japanese still seem to win in vehicle dynamics, but that is closing too. Overall better balance in their designs. Ford/Chevrolet seem to be 95% right, but then screw up 5% badly, though Ford of late I don't think can be accused of that.



I'm forced to agree with you that Ford can't be accused of that. Unfortunately it's for the very reason outlined above. Can't criticize quality of a brand's cars when very soon they will no longer make cars.



> Most of the concepts of reliability are based on long memories, not current realities. Unfortunately, NA car companies did not have the previously cheap labor of a Hyundai to continue to sell cars cheaply while they worked on quality. Hyundai quality is now world class, and their wages are right up there in the world too.



As a personal thing, My Mazda 6 is far from a memory. What I see in my neighborhood as far as 10 year+ cars on the road, I see everyday. As far as cheap North American cars go, my dad's Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme was a Near Luxury tank of a car. Absolute quality, built by GM back in 1981. Lasted 16 years of daily driving. Sure, it had its issues. But it was quality, and it was reliable. As far as cheap cars go. It has taken awhile but folks are coming to a realization that cheap cars don't last. A used Honda Civic is going to cost as much but last longer than a brand new Chevy Spark.


----------



## alpg88

is gm car made in Mexico, or Canada more American than a Honda build in USA? seems like Honda is more American now than gm.


----------



## alpg88

Monocrom said:


> No doubt the Unions deserve a fair share of the blame. However, as you pointed out, many of the popular Japanese models are made here in America too. Toyota and Honda have to deal with Unions as well. Yet they simply don't seem to be having the issues with them that traditional American car companies are having.
> 
> .



because they are not unionized nearly as much. Honda wont let unions on their property, and Toyota closed its only union factory in 2009. good riddance i say.


----------



## MeMeMe

Ford's choice is simple business. They don't see value in investing in vehicles where the per vehicle profit is so low. It makes good financial sense though I do have to wonder about economies of scale. I expect some more consolidation once the Chinese start exporting. I have had really good North American cars, and had a Honda (in the last 10 years) that was constant trouble .... and of course troublesome NA cars and super reliable Japanese cars. Until very recently, most German made cars were nothing but trouble. Most of people's poor impressions of North American vehicles is based on old history. 

Many Japanese plants in North America are not unionized.


----------



## MeMeMe

alpg88 said:


> because they are not unionized nearly as much. Honda wont let unions on their property, and Toyota closed its only union factory in 2009. good riddance i say.



Sorry I had not read your reply when I posted mine.

I worked in Engineering in a GM plant many years ago. We wore Union grievances as badges of honor. It meant we cared more about getting product out the door than worrying about some union wanks feelings.


----------



## MeMeMe

Monocrom said:


> I live in a working class neighborhood. I see a lot of older cars. And I'm sorry but you simply will not see GM, Ford, or Dodge vehicles from a decade ago; here. You won't. You will see plenty of older Civics, Camrys, Corollas, and Accords. And in that order. Every GM, Ford, and Dodge are all newer models. .



.. You are basically agreeing with me. 10+ years ago, Japanese cars were better. That is no longer the case. 

Did you have a V6 in that Mazda 6? .... What year? The first generation Mazda 6, V6, which was super reliable, was a FORD engine.


----------



## alpg88

no, you completely twisted his statement. 
pretty clear he meant there are not many old domestic cars around, cuz by that time they turn into junk not worth fixing, imports otoh keep on ticking even if they have rust holes.

there is absolutely nothing in his quoted post suggesting older imports were better than newer ones.


----------



## alpg88

MeMeMe said:


> Ford's choice is simple business. They don't see value in investing in vehicles where the per vehicle profit is so low. .



there isn't, you are right, because people choose Honda and Toyota over ford, and you are correct about profit margins, uaw makes them smaller and smaller. and even guaranteed flees sales do not help.


----------



## alpg88

i used to work in a body shop, used to deal a lot with dealers parts and service dept, idk why but gm\ford\dodge were the worst ones to deal with, bunch of lazy, incompetent bodies. can't even call them mechanics. that is a large part of the reason i have not gotten any domestic cars in 15 years or so. their crappy resale value, thus higher lease price is another


----------



## idleprocess

Performed an informal survey of vehicles on the road the past couple of days on the return leg of my commute. SUV-esque vehicles (which will include crossovers and minivans) seemed more common than sedans. Of the trucks on the road, some 90% looked to be _lifestyle_ trucks - fullsize quadcab shortbed; _and_ I discounted those that were clearly utility vehicles with racks, camper shells, serious-looking loads in the bed, hauling utility trailers. Knowing that crossovers and SUVs command a multi-$K premium over the sedan whose platforms they generally share and that a _lifestyle_ truck retails for something close to $50k, small wonder that the Big 3 have focused so heavily on that segment of the market.


----------



## StarHalo

- GM is doing excellent; its stock has gone soaring over the last couple of years, and they're a major recipient of the recent tax cut which has added handsomely to their coffers. These layoffs should in theory be hitting the reset button on a significant portion of their car lineup to get it more in line with everyone else, but we'll see. 

- Everyone wants SUVs; the best selling Porsche is the Cayenne SUV, that's why even the Italian carmakers you would never associate with trucks are now also introducing SUVs. Hip height and visibility sells better than swoopy rooflines. 

My parents owned a broad variety of American cars for many years, lumbering sedans and wagons that drove like the body panels hung about a foot outside of where the wheels were, like a truck despite there being nothing truck-like in the construction. My mom eventually got a mid-90's Camry from that golden age financial bubble of Japanese cars, which was like alien technology compared to anything we'd owned before, or was currently offered, with an American badge. And the American manufacturers were okay with that for many years; Honda introduced the Civic Si, Chevy added more chrome to the Cavalier. Toyota introduced the Avalon, Ford just let the clock run out on the Crown Victoria. etc. The US caught up long after it was too late, and in fairness the last few American cars I drove aren't notably different in quality from the Japanese cars, but they also don't have any particular character - you could cover the badges and sit in the interior, and there'd be no indication that it's an American car. Korean maybe? It's not clear..

Should also mention, Oldsmobile's last gasp offerings were the best cars GM would make for many years, which is a shame that they didn't try them sooner; the sedans were basically just copies of Toyotas but with bigger engines, which is precisely the formula Buick arrived at years later.


----------



## alpg88

lol what last oldsmobile do you have in mind? 88ls\lss with it's 3800 series 2 that had leaky manifold gasket at 70k? and transmission that went at 100k or sooner in 80% cases? even more problematic the one with SC. what else, aurora? nope, its v8 is less reliable than the northstar, their 3.5 had overheat issues in aurora and intrigue, alero was most problem free car. but it was nothing special midsize sedan, my coworker still drives one, but it does not even come close to accord of the same year, in terms of driving dynamics, room, road feel, resale value.


----------



## Monocrom

alpg88 said:


> because they are not unionized nearly as much. Honda wont let unions on their property, and Toyota closed its only union factory in 2009. good riddance i say.



Unions are necessary. Keeps Management from becoming corrupt. Problem is, you need the right type of people in charge of those unions or, the unions become corrupt. When that happens, Management becomes the hero for finding ways not to deal with them. Who knows, perhaps rightly so. Perhaps. But that's all I'll say about Unions from now on.


----------



## Monocrom

MeMeMe said:


> .. You are basically agreeing with me. 10+ years ago, Japanese cars were better. That is no longer the case.
> 
> Did you have a V6 in that Mazda 6? .... What year? The first generation Mazda 6, V6, which was super reliable, was a FORD engine.



I really don't see how i'm agreeing with you. Japanese cars are still better today. Even today, car magazine writers and editors give the same advice. "Buy a Toyota or a Honda if you primarily care about reliability and durability." Sorry, but that advice has not changed. 

Mine is a 2009 Mazda 6 V6. And I did a staggering amount of research before picking that car with that engine option. I spent 11 months researching every car that had peaked my interest as a replacement for my 1998 Ford Escort (A rebadged Mazda Protege by the way). That sweet V6 is Japanese.


----------



## idleprocess

Monocrom said:


> Unions are necessary. Keeps Management from becoming corrupt. Problem is, you need the right type of people in charge of those unions or, the unions become corrupt. When that happens, Management becomes the hero for finding ways not to deal with them. Who knows, perhaps rightly so. Perhaps. But that's all I'll say about Unions from now on.



Having lived on both sides of the equation, I generally agree. I will say that having spent more time being paid by the hour than salaried that's it's infuriating what _seniority-as-the-*only*-metric_ does to one's motivation in a union shop.


----------



## StarHalo

alpg88 said:


> lol what last oldsmobile do you have in mind?



Design, not reliability; reliability is not a fair comparison in any era.


----------



## MeMeMe

alpg88 said:


> no, you completely twisted his statement.
> pretty clear he meant there are not many old domestic cars around, cuz by that time they turn into junk not worth fixing, imports otoh keep on ticking even if they have rust holes.
> 
> there is absolutely nothing in his quoted post suggesting older imports were better than newer ones.



No I didn't. 10-15 years ago, Japanese cars had an edge in reliability and longevity. That there are lots of 10-15 year old Japanese cars shows that to be true ... but often that can come down to regional difference as well. 

Imports don't keep on ticking any better than North American branded cars any more. German cars have NEVER ticked along better, there were just a lot more of the same model.


----------



## StarHalo

Ferrari leaves the new 812 Superfast's taillights inset for Chauncey; also includes a 9000 rpm V12, 70 to 150 mph in under 10 seconds..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

:hahaha:


StarHalo said:


> Ferrari leaves the new 812 Superfast's taillights inset for Chauncey; also includes a 9000 rpm V12, 70 to 150 mph in under 10 seconds..


 :laughing: 


Mamma mea! That's a spicy meatball! 

~ Chauncey


----------



## alpg88

StarHalo said:


> Design, not reliability; *reliability is not a fair comparison in any era*.



what about Oldsmobile design? all of them except few in 80s had lame boring design. all of oldsmobilles were rebadged buicks, pontiacs, and chevys.

and yes reliability is the most fair comparison, it is objective, design otoh is subjective, resale values are based on long term reliability ratings, not design.

just ask Monocrom, he did not spend 11 month researching design, but reliability.


----------



## Monocrom

alpg88 said:


> just ask Monocrom, he did not spend 11 month researching design, but reliability.



I must say, she'll hit the decade mark in February. 
Very few issues, very few headaches. 
Not too much money spent on maintenance. 
Never left me stranded. Never refused to start up.


----------



## alpg88

MeMeMe said:


> Imports don't keep on ticking any better than North American branded cars any more. German cars have NEVER ticked along better, there were just a lot more of the same model.



well i was gonna post how wrong you are and how i see opposite from what you saying on actual roads, but i realized, what i see in nyc is not same as i see in upstate ny.

when i drive 100+ miles away from new york city, i see a lot more old cars, americans and Japanese. in nyc over 50% are new cars, 1-3 years old, upstate, i only see 5% of new cars, most of those new are trucks, suv. Germans are different story. mb and bmw are not that reliable, but people fix them anyway, since it's a luxury cars. audi not so much, and vw is junk after 10 years.


----------



## StarHalo

Clarifying again: Near-death Olds simply copied Toyota, which produced the best aesthetic and dynamic design that would be made at GM until their other marques did the same much later. One look at the Aurora interior tells you that this car has nothing to do with anything American-made at the time, but it's a remarkably solid Toyota facsimile:


----------



## alpg88

i had 1994 aurora worst car ever made. more problems than any other car i had, more electrical issues than old seville and yugo combined. absolutely nothing in common with any toyota. 
and this is coming from a guy who at one time only drove Oldsmobiles, i had 1985 cutlass cierra, 1988 delta 88, 1994 aurora, 1996 ls. and friends of mine had accords, maximas, Camrys. not to mention 2 years work in auto repair shop. so i can compare things, but after i got brand new 2006 accord v6 , i never looked at domestics again. i have to agree that up to late 90s used American cars were cheaper to fix, cost cheaper to buy, thus more popular on used market, but their reliability was not as good as Japanese cars.
if anything it actually declined for Japanese cars over time, my 09 and 13 accords build quality was not as good, uneven gaps, cheaper materials, some features that were standard, became options, but it did not affect reliability much. 
actually from experience of driving Honda and Hyundai for many years, i say Hyundai are better than Honda now. i'm generally happy with my 2018 honda pilot, but brother in law's Santa fe is build better. feels more expensive, rides smoother, but pilot is bigger, burns less gas, and has more powerful engine, my brother in law has long one with 3,3l v6.


----------



## StarHalo

alpg88 said:


> i had 1994 aurora worst car ever made. more problems than any other car i had, more electrical issues than old seville and yugo combined. absolutely nothing in common with any toyota.



And my response to that was:



StarHalo said:


> Design, not reliability; reliability is not a fair comparison in any era.



So now we've come full circle 



alpg88 said:


> if anything it actually declined for Japanese cars over time, my 09 and 13 accords build quality was not as good, uneven gaps, cheaper materials, some features that were standard, became options, but it did not affect reliability much.



The early/mid 90's was the financial bubble in Japan, that was when their cars really peaked; the Toyotas from that era were not much different from the Lexuses, a level of bang for the buck that hasn't been seen since..


----------



## alpg88

StarHalo said:


> And my response to that was:
> 
> 
> 
> So now we've come full circle
> 
> 
> 
> The early/mid 90's was the financial bubble in Japan, that was when their cars really peaked; the Toyotas from that era were not much different from the Lexuses, a level of bang for the buck that hasn't been seen since..



LOL, yea i know what your response was, and it makes 0 sense to me along with your Oldsmobile is a copy of toyota. lol neither has any basis in realty, i sill would like to see what toyota of mid 90's is olds aurora a copy of.


----------



## Need a Light?

The best Toyota era was late late 80s to about 95-6. The last gen (US available) Cressida was basically a Lexus, and the xv10 (92-96) Camry was slightly higher quality (if comparable overall due to modernity) than the xv20 (97-01). 

Agreed though. I have owned two cressidas (89 and 92) in the last five years, and am driving a 97 Camry currently and all have always started no issues.

Funny enough, my dad finally bought his first new car, a '17 accord sport se (4cyl 6 speed), and it has issues with voltage and acceleration. So who knows. Although I guess Toyota has always been a bit more utilitarian and Honda more 'sporty', and the old man is a 'Yota fan as well.


----------



## StarHalo

Need a Light? said:


> Although I guess Toyota has always been a bit more utilitarian and Honda more 'sporty'



Back when it was Camry vs Accord, that was always exaggerated; those two were always closer in character and performed more closely than most people gave them credit for. Not that it matters now that it's RAV4 vs CR-V, that one's about to be upset by Mazda putting a turbo engine in the CX-5 bringing it to parity with the BMWs..


----------



## Need a Light?

To be fair. While I prefer Toyota, Honda is the only one with a manual in the full size sedan. And while the current sport Camry is the coolest Camry, it is lacking in speed due to the Eco auto. If Toyota made a manual Camry my family would own one. 

Now that it's suv/crossover I agree the cars lose relevance. As for turbos I'm less informed. Although the new Cr-v has a turbo 4 cyl base now? Don't recall. 

As for bmw as far as I know 3.0 liter straight 6 is minimum or 4 cyl turbo with similar power


----------



## StarHalo

Need a Light? said:


> Now that it's suv/crossover I agree the cars lose relevance. As for turbos I'm less informed. Although the new Cr-v has a turbo 4 cyl base now? Don't recall.



Honda's going with a 1.5L turbo, Mazda's 2.5L turbo is pushing 300+ lb ft..



Need a Light? said:


> To be fair. While I prefer Toyota, Honda is the only one with a manual in the full size sedan. And while the current sport Camry is the coolest Camry, it is lacking in speed due to the Eco auto. If Toyota made a manual Camry my family would own one.



The Camry was almost always available with a manual, just not recently and not commonly. And yes you could mate it to the V6.








Need a Light? said:


> As for bmw as far as I know 3.0 liter straight 6 is minimum or 4 cyl turbo with similar power



My BMW 4 cyl turbo does indeed have similar power


----------



## Need a Light?

Funny StarHalo, I believe the manual Camry you've pictured is an xv20 (97-01), I had a 00 with a five speed. The problem is they haven't had a manual since like 2011 (or whenever that bumpy nose gen ended) so no new ones for a while.


----------



## StarHalo

Car and Driver's test of the then-new xv10 was a cherry red V6 manual Sport coupe, I remember that one (0-60 in 7 seconds!), still the best looking xv10 I ever saw. But yeah, nowadays they're assuming if you want the sport experience you'll just get the 86, doubly evident as the RAV4 is becoming more truck-like:


----------



## SCEMan

That is one angry looking front end. And what's with the square wheel wells?:thinking:


----------



## StarHalo

The truck folks are kinda going off the deep end lately (2020 Chevy Silverado HD)


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> The truck folks are kinda going off the deep end lately (2020 Chevy Silverado HD)




_*"The new Chevy Silverado.... We fired our entire design team." *_


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

^ Little Man's Disease Special :ironic: What! No lightbar? 

~ CG


----------



## idleprocess

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> What! No lightbar?



What the OEMs fail to provide out of style or _standards compliance_ the aftermarket shall surely provide with the usual brash claims that _automotive engineers don't know what they're doing_.


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Found out today, a guy I know just bought one of these. - 





2018 F250 Roush edition 

It. 
Is. 
Awesome! 

~ CG


----------



## Monocrom

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> ^ Little Man's Disease Special :ironic: What! No lightbar?
> 
> ~ CG



It's probably a Dealer installed option! :lolsign:


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> 2018 F250 Roush edition



Just be aware that for freeway use, trucks like these have the speed limiter set for the type of utility/off road tire they use - that's $50k+ for a vehicle that tops out at 98 mph.


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Monocrom

RBR said:


> Oh cool, you are permitted to go any faster on any public street/road meanwhile?
> 
> :thumbsup:



You know guys who buy that thing are going to want to take it to the track.


----------



## Minimoog

What is it with putting the horn press in the steering wheel centre? I'm trying to avoid a potential hazard, not pressing at the steering wheel. Probably why so many people blow the horn after the event. None of my previous cars had it on the wheel and I REALLY don't like that placement.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> Just be aware that for freeway use, trucks like these have the speed limiter set for the type of utility/off road tire they use - that's $50k+ for a vehicle that tops out at 98 mph.



GULP! Saw one listed for $82,900. I can't imagine..... 

~ CG


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Its electronically controlled top speed may be 98 mph, but it can go that fast pulling a fully loaded 40 foot trailer.  925 pound-feet of torque! I read that Roush doesn't modify the motor.

~ CG


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## alpg88

Minimoog said:


> What is it with putting the horn press in the steering wheel centre? I'm trying to avoid a potential hazard, not pressing at the steering wheel. Probably why so many people blow the horn after the event. None of my previous cars had it on the wheel and I REALLY don't like that placement.



if by event you mean crash, then horn is blasting due to deployed airbags. every car i had since 1995 had horn in the center, all around the center, buttons for radio, \cc\ phone


----------



## alpg88

oh yes, some sure will take it to the track, and they will modify the hell out of them, but engine is the last thing they need to mod, they can get more speed by changing rear end ratio, thou it wont be a work truck anymore.


----------



## Monocrom

alpg88 said:


> oh yes, some sure will take it to the track, and they will modify the hell out of them, but engine is the last thing they need to mod, they can get more speed by changing rear end ratio, thou it wont be a work truck anymore.



Those who need an actual work truck aren't going to be looking at this vehicle.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

RBR said:


> Ah, i see, it´s one of these useful multi purpose race track cars...



We live in the United States of America! We want and can have a 400 plus HP truck. :nana: 

~ Chance


----------



## idleprocess

Monocrom said:


> Those who need an actual work truck aren't going to be looking at this vehicle.



Oh I guarantee you there will be candids of these things towing horses, boats, RVs. But yeah, that won't be their _raison d'être_.


----------



## Need a Light?

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> We live in the United States of America! We want and can have a 400 plus HP truck. :nana:
> 
> ~ Chance



While torque is the spec for trucks and hp the one for cars, I'd like to point out that even the Camry can have 300hp nowadays. 400hp in a truck is just scratching the surface of performance


----------



## StarHalo

Current ~900 lb/ft diesel trucks have merely above-average performance, Chevy's/GMC's models are notably quicker than Ford's; but as of now Ford has the highest-performing truck on the market in their [gas twin-turbo V6] F-150 Limited, so long as you're willing to pay $70k for a modestly chromed package that otherwise doesn't look that different from a base model. The Limited moves the speed limiter up to 107 mph.

All-time highest-performing production truck goes to the Viper V10-powered '04-'06 Dodge Ram SRT-10 (which holds the top speed record by a massive margin at a limited 155 mph.) If you include limited production models, the '91 GMC Syclone is the drag strip king (and still manages 125 mph.)


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## alpg88

here in usa halfway motorized compact cars are on the bottom of the "food chain", worst car to be in during a crash, especially when a pick up is involved. it's even more relavant, since quite a few people here drive full throttle all day, on any road, not just highways


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Here in America, those that can afford monster trucks drive them because most of us are terrible drivers. :sweat:

~ Chance who is an excellent driver


----------



## alpg88

RBR said:


> Yeah, in USA it’s about „playing with the big boys“, over here it’s „playing with the fast boys“...
> 
> And with such a tank you would have to look for food on the right track of the Autobahn most of the time because at 98mph you would be honked away as an obstacle from the centre track more often than you might expect...



not an issue when speed limits are below 75mph pretty much everywhere, with few exceptions. btw we got suv's that will put your fast econoboxes to shame. my honda, pilot full size suv does 0-60 in 6.5sec. many small "sports cars" can't do that


----------



## SCEMan

alpg88 said:


> since quite a few people here drive full throttle all day, on any road, not just highways



Now that's scary


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## alpg88

RBR said:


> That´s 7 seconds of fun and the rest is...boring.



fun starts after first snow,lol, when small shtmobiles can't get out of parking spots, lol, you can't imagine how much fun that is, but you have to be in a truck to appreciate it. especially when your truck is as fast or faster than half the cars on the road.


----------



## Need a Light?

As for hoodie I agree the high torque HD trucks aren't amazing for speed they don't change performance much with incredible loads so that's neat. 

As for the most recent posts, snow performance is affected more by tire choice than vehicle in most cases. I'll take my 3000lb Camry in decent snows against any pickup in all seasons.


----------



## alpg88

Need a Light? said:


> As for hoodie I agree the high torque HD trucks aren't amazing for speed they don't change performance much with incredible loads so that's neat.
> 
> *As for the most recent posts, snow performance is affected more by tire choice than vehicle in most cases.* I'll take my 3000lb Camry in decent snows against any pickup in all seasons.



it was not about snow tire performance, it was more about that sedans, especially compact ones, can't get out of parking spots due to low clearance and only 2wd. since i drive suv, i never had to shovel it out of parking spot, even when plows push snow towards it, i just go over it, of course it does not apply to snow few feet deep, but it's very rarely an issue, most snow we get here is up to 10" huge problem for sedans, before streets are plowed, parking spots dug up, suv's generally have little to no issues. i'm talking about cities, in suburbs streets not always plowed, and small side streets often aren't plowed at all. good luck getting around in a "fun subcompact" lol. of course this entire argument is pointless if people have multiple cars, small cars to commute, and suv\pick ups for when weather is bad or you need more room.


----------



## idleprocess

alpg88 said:


> it was not about snow tire performance, it was more about that sedans, especially compact ones, can't get out of parking spots due to low clearance and only 2wd. since i drive suv, i never had to shovel it out of parking spot, even when plows push snow towards it, i just go over it, of course it does not apply to snow few feet deep, but it's very rarely an issue, most snow we get here is up to 10" huge problem for sedans, before streets are plowed, parking spots dug up, suv's generally have little to no issues. i'm talking about cities, in suburbs streets not always plowed, and small side streets often aren't plowed at all. good luck getting around in a "fun subcompact" lol. of course this entire argument is pointless if people have multiple cars, small cars to commute, and suv\pick ups for when weather is bad or you need more room.



In vast swaths of the country this is not a concern given the rarity of snow and even less-frequent accumulation of _any_ quantity.


----------



## Need a Light?

Sure if you have to get around before snow is cleared at all. But I've always driven cars, and have rarely gotten stuck due to deep snow, largely because anywhere I go is maintained to some degree because snow is expected. 10+ inches is rare in a single storm, and I enjoy shoveling so no issue on the rare occasion. 

Actually, the first big snow of this year I had my all seasons still, and wanted to move my car because where I'm currently living isn't plowed but the lot next door is. There is also essentially a ditch at the bottom of my very wide (dirt) parking lot exit. This combined with super dense plowed snow, caused me to bottom out and my tires were all but helpless. Still, snows only would've been marginally better but only after digging. Had to use my lacrosse stick as I don't currently have a shovel, ha. Regardless it worked well (6' stick) and was fun. 

So yes, SUV's do have a very occasional advantage. But considering I ride in comfort and never lack space, my Camrys 30mpg is a better choice despite its very occasional snow issues.


----------



## StarHalo

I last saw snow in December of '08. In the mountains here, there are two kinds of vehicles; Jeeps and WRXs - nothing follows the Jeeps off road and nothing follows the Rexs on road.


----------



## alpg88

idleprocess said:


> In vast swaths of the country this is not a concern given the rarity of snow and even less-frequent accumulation of _any_ quantity.



True, however it is much much more relevant than max speed.


----------



## idleprocess

alpg88 said:


> True, however it is much much more relevant than max speed.


This wasn't a discussion about performance car spec-sheet figures that are rarely realized. It was about the utility of high vs low ground clearance. Living in the sunbelt and driving on pavement, ground clearance considerations by and large _end_ once I can clear driveways, railroad crossings, and other typical road obstacles.

Were I to live, say, in _the Michigan upper peninsula_ the calculus would be different. My current daily driver - a Subaru WRX - would indeed often struggle, as would most passenger cars.

To the extent that cold-weather performance matters in this region _(outside of freakish conditions like cobblestone ice seen once perhaps every 30 years)_ tires are the dominant consideration. Took my Mazda 3 out to a giant abandoned parking lot during a prolonged sleet/black ice event and got in some drifting hooliganism on all-season tires _(learned that the car could spin on an axis roughly centered on the center console with judicious e-brake pumping)_; a buddy in a G37 almost got stuck on summer tires - at one point he clutch-dropped into second, nothing happened for a minute, and we got out to just watch the rear wheels spin smoothly at a rate comparable to ~15 MPH while the vehicle remained stationary.

Perhaps there are residents of your region that favor of low-slung performance cars subject to becoming stranded in the snow for ~half the year. I know that my region is lousy with lifestyle trucks that look to never leave pavement despite a good foot of ground clearance and sport tow package hitch receivers that look brand new for _years_, costing them stacks of additional money. *Perceptions* of utility sell at least as much as actual utility: how you _feel_ about the vehicle is often more important than what it can _do_.


----------



## alpg88

idleprocess said:


> This wasn't a discussion about performance car spec-sheet figures that are rarely realized..



it actually was, if you look at what my post was replying to. it was about going fast=fun


----------



## StarHalo

Dodge hits the 1,000 lb ft torque mark; tows 35,100 lbs.


----------



## Need a Light?

I just don't get it. It's triple the power dump trucks used to have. There's no reason for 1000 torque, it's all a marketing race. I guess it's beyond me, because many trucks aren't even for work, just high-seated inefficient luxury liners. 

As for cars in snow? Awd is okay, but all cars have all wheel stop so minimal gains. It's very very rare to get enough snow a car can't get through. It takes 8+ inches of heavy snow to stop my 22 year old Camry. Only ever been stuck due to depth trying to ford the dense packed snow bank that's been plowed into my driveway. Realistically if there is snow in a place with infrastructure for it, awd help is negligible.


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## StarHalo

Tesla says their pickup truck should be ready for unveiling this summer..


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Tesla says their pickup truck should be ready for unveiling this summer..



....Not if they keep laying off large chunks of their work-force.


----------



## Need a Light?

Monocrom said:


> ....Not if they keep laying off large chunks of their work-force.



Afaik that's about reducing their cost to produce cars. I believe they're streamlining production to drop cost. They're definitely still planning on cranking out as many as they can.


----------



## alpg88

Need a Light? said:


> I just don't get it. It's triple the power dump trucks used to have. There's no reason for 1000 torque,.


not only that, but unless you have a semi trailer pushing on rear axle, you will just spin the wheels, even with dually, traction control will make that torque unavailable. but i see those trucks often used to pull long trailers with horses, cattle.. so it is not so useless. from what i see on roads, those torque monsters with dually are not as common compared to lighter duty trucks with smaller engines.


----------



## Monocrom

Need a Light? said:


> Afaik that's about reducing their cost to produce cars. I believe they're streamlining production to drop cost. They're definitely still planning on cranking out as many as they can.



Well, that's the official company P.R. line. I wouldn't be surprised if the real issue has more to do with belt-tightening measures needed due to financial shortcomings. (A guy I work with who isn't the most mature or emotionally stable has a large chunk of his savings invested in the company. So I hope the company line is closer to the truth than what I suspect really is.)


----------



## Need a Light?

The torque is useful, don't get me wrong. But I believe it's mostly a marketing point and because of the size of the US, our interstates/serious highways are (relatively) high speed and the folk driving said super trucks and towing want to drive with a load no differently than otherwise. So now trucks can hop onto a big road and cruise at 80mph with any load. I firmly believe it's unnecessary lol, and yeah a relative with a modern ford diesel has issues wearing out tired from downshifts uphill (unloaded). 

As for tesla, I get that it's their words. But they're a pretty serious splash in the automotive world, and I'd believe the people trying to remove humans from driving are doing all they can to remove them from production lol.


----------



## StarHalo

1976 Winnebago with *600hp* Turbo LS swap; test drive begins at 3:30, epic traffic pass at 9:00


----------



## Monocrom

Now that's just crazy.


----------



## YAK-28

loved the rv video, thanks for sharing.


----------



## StarHalo

So if a turbo adds power by forcing air into the engine, then you could do the same thing by just putting industrial dryer fans on your car's intake, right? Let's go to the tape:


----------



## nosuchagency

hennessey's 6x6 velociraptor conversion...





wasn't aware of its existence until recently when it was referred to in a book series i've been reading.


----------



## StarHalo

Dodge beat them to it by a couple decades; I saw it at an auto show back in the day, back when the original Viper and Prowler were considered production-worthy..


----------



## StarHalo

So you might recall the video of Kranky literally burning down a dragstrip:



Kranky recently visited the Hoonigan yard and provided a full tour of this 1,400 HP cruiser which is just as impressive inside as out:


----------



## Monocrom

_*NICE!*_


----------



## StarHalo

StarHalo said:


> Johnny Bohmer's street-legal BADD GT; this Ford GT40 makes 2,700 emissions-compliant horsepower and has air conditioning/license plates/insurance, but here it loses boost at 292.9 MPH. Then the parachute rips. Then the rear rotors shatter. But this is how close we are to a 300 MPH street-legal car



Yesterday at the Texas Mile event, M2K Motorsports' 2006 Ford GT successfully hit *300.4 mph* at the one mile mark, making it the first street legal car to do so. The stock 5.4 V8 has a pair of turbos added running at 45 psi of boost with methanol fuel for ~2,500 hp.


----------



## orbital

Monocrom said:


> :huh::huh::huh:oo:oo:oo:
> 
> Looks like I have a #1 contender for my next car.
> 
> (No, seriously! That is awesome news!! Thank you!!!)



Have you purchased a new ride?
The 2019 Jetta GLi looks great (an automatic is optional) https://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2019-volkswagen-jetta-gli-first-drive-better-ever

If that's offered in a wagon with 6-speed manual, I may see what my trade-it value is


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> Have you purchased a new ride?
> The 2019 Jetta GLi looks great (an automatic is optional) https://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2019-volkswagen-jetta-gli-first-drive-better-ever
> 
> If that's offered in a wagon with 6-speed manual, I may see what my trade-it value is



Must admit..... That is *incredibly* tempting!


----------



## StarHalo

The GLi in red is hard to miss, a shame they couldn't have started with something that looked more like that ~15 years ago. But there's still the question of what's going to happen with the Golf R..


----------



## orbital

+

The Lancia Beta Montecarlo Turbo (_Group 5_ race trim) turned 40 this year.
A highly turbocharged, small displacement mid-engine GT racer that was truly ahead of its time






...you could put it in GT series anywhere in the world today & it'll hang


----------



## SCEMan

One of a kind...
1650 ci; 3000 hp and streetable (well kinda) :shakehead


----------



## StarHalo

SCEMan said:


> One of a kind...
> 1650 ci; 3000 hp and streetable (well kinda) :shakehead



Legendary stuff, a shame an engine that size is hidden away though, I'd definitely go with an open-wheel build..


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> Legendary stuff, a shame an engine that size is hidden away though, I'd definitely go with an open-wheel build..



A tilt front end would have worked too. Kinda surprised it didn't have one. 
BTW: took pics at Brackett Field in La Verne.


----------



## StarHalo

On eBay today: 1967 Pontiac Firebirds VIN #001 and #002, the first two copies of the car ever made; Buy It Now for $285K:

Update: Nobody went over ~$190K and the reserve was not met, so these will be back again soon..


----------



## StarHalo

Highly entertaining: 1965 Ford Galaxie with 5.9L Cummins TurboDiesel; only power mods include upgraded fuel pump and open turbo, still rips massive burnouts:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Cleetus & CO. Some of the most enjoyable people on youtube. No fake drama. No BS. Just a bunch of great guys and fun cars. HELL YEAH, BROTHER!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

If your tastes run more toward the exotics, Cleetus is also having an LS up front - jet in the back El Camino built. :naughty:


----------



## Monocrom

NICE!


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## StarHalo

The dealer is handing out plug-in hybrids for loaners now; some observations on the BMW 530e:

- It has an electric motor between the engine and transmission, in place of the torque converter; this means even when running on just electric, it still shifts. 

- The car smartly manages both motors automatically (often with the combustion engine off) with normal settings, but can be set to run as electric-only with combustion for hard acceleration, or combustion-always-on with electric assist. 

- The 4-cyl turbo would be out of place in a 4,500 lb sedan if it weren't for the electric motor and engineering trickery; while the engine can't be heard or felt from the cabin, driving windows down reveals that it's often on boil when accelerating gently - combined with the electric motor, this means profound and instant acceleration is possible from a crawling roll. 

- The turbo whistle is very faint and not always predictable since the engine RPMs aren't always proportional to what you're asking of the car. There is manual paddle shift but no tachometer. 

- Plugging in to household AC, you're looking at ~5 hours of charging for ~15 miles; the car charges exponentially faster by regenerative braking if you're doing a lot of it. There is an optional conductor mat available so you can charge wirelessly.

- The small ~15 mile battery means the battery gauge is volatile, glancing at it every couple of minutes you can plainly see the needle has moved. 

- The car doesn't regenerate strongly enough to drive without the brake pedal in most situations, but it's enough that you can in some slow city driving. You can get more regeneration by forcing a lower gear and coasting.

- Best headlights I've ever seen on any car, the foreground is lit with a smooth and even flood like you're driving around with a giant mule emitter on the centerline. It remains there when the high beams are engaged. There are selector buttons to turn on only the left or right parking lights.


----------



## StarHalo

For everyone who ever took a low rider off-road in _Grand Theft Auto_ - here's what that actually looks like:


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> For everyone who ever took a low rider off-road in _Grand Theft Auto_ - here's what that actually looks like:



Having seen my share of lowriders in the 60s & 70s, I always wanted to see a full field of them at the Indy 500. First turn after the green flag with those chain steering wheels.... priceless


----------



## StarHalo

*If you're a fan of Top Gear, Grand Tour, Fifth Gear, etc.* do check out the current Cleetus McFarland series on YouTube where the team drives their two custom ~1,000 hp engine-doesn't-fit-in-the-bay Corvettes through 1,000+ miles of Rocky Mountain Race Week, a weeklong event where cars road-trip drive through different checkpoints to compete at different drag strips across Colorado. Adding to the fun is the fact that one of the Corvettes is in fact just an open tube frame chassis with no body panels - and they're road tripping through Colorado summer weather. Cleetus has been updating with a full ~half hour video for every day of the event, which is still ongoing as of this post; definitely on par with the Top Gear classics and probably the YouTube event of the summer, the first episode is below:


----------



## StarHalo

Do air filters make any performance difference?

Old dirty OEM filter vs new clean OEM filter vs new cheap parts store air filter vs K&N performance filter; no theory or speculation, just dyno and real-world VBox numbers:


----------



## trailhunter

Any jeepers in here?
[emoji111]

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## StarHalo

CHECK IT, calipers match the wheels, BOOM! (because apparently Raybestos remanufactured calipers are silver out of the box; congrats to Honda for making rotors that can withstand 120,000 miles of Cali driving, and thanks to Les Schwab Tire Centers for keeping it pro, budget, and fast..)


----------



## LeanBurn

120,000 miles....wow, great wear! 

I am not in stop and go, but more rural and I have a 2009 Corolla in my family that is still on its OEM factory installed brake pads....it has 262,500 miles on it with lots of brake pad life to go.


----------



## Monocrom

Saw the latest generation VW Jetta parked at my job last night. OMG! They ruined it! It's as big as a Passat! So much for having a roomy compact that you can option out with some power. It's also ugly too. 

Some jerk keeps parking his Tesla directly across from my sports sedan each morning at work. I love my car. If it catches on fire because that death trap decides to spontaneously combust or "vent with flame," his insurance better be massively good. Otherwise I'm suing him into a cardboard box.


----------



## StarHalo

Monocrom said:


> Saw the latest generation VW Jetta parked at my job last night. OMG! They ruined it! It's as big as a Passat! So much for having a roomy compact that you can option out with some power. It's also ugly too.



But you liked it on the last page, and it's now officially a GTI sedan when optioned properly..


----------



## RBR

.....


----------



## orbital

Monocrom said:


> Saw the latest generation VW Jetta parked at my job last night. OMG! They ruined it! ----



+

Maybe look for a mint '14~'15 Jetta TDi
Getting 40MPG yearly, leaves lots-o-$ for a new Benchmade ect.,



btw~ I almost pulled the trigger on an_ incredibly_ low mile TDi wagon SE in manual (it sold(


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> But you liked it on the last page, and it's now officially a GTI sedan when optioned properly..



I admit, I screwed up. Clicked on the link previously and was thinking they might have added a couple of inches to the length, at most from the pictures. Nope! This thing is full on mid-size, towards the upper range of mid-sized. Saw the stock version in person, in the parking lot. Saw the front-end first. Instantly thought, "Oh, how nice. The Passat looks much better than it did in previous generations."

Then I come to the back.... Jaw hit the ground in shock when I see "Jetta" on the back. VW is huge! How does it continue to stay in business making one utterly bone-headed decision after another?


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Maybe look for a mint '14~'15 Jetta TDi_..._



Looks as though that's going to be my best option.


----------



## SCEMan

Monocrom said:


> Then I come to the back.... Jaw hit the ground in shock when I see "Jetta" on the back. VW is huge! How does it continue to stay in business making one utterly bone-headed decision after another?



It's 10" longer than my 2015 Audi A3 Quattro. Not sure why VW stretched it since it's the same width, 1.8" longer wheelbase and just an inch higher.


----------



## orbital

+

Crom,, take a look at the new *2019 Mazda 3 sedan*
cool looking wide display
&
good motor


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Crom,, take a look at the new *2019 Mazda 3 sedan*
> cool looking wide display
> &
> good motor



Thanks, I'll take a look. (Hopefully it's not HUGE in real life.)


----------



## orbital

Monocrom said:


> Thanks, I'll take a look. (Hopefully it's not HUGE in real life.)



+ 

When I said 'cool looking wide display' I was referring to the screen in the cabin = it's extra wide aspect
https://www.mazdausa.com/siteassets...2019-mazda-3-sedan-interior-design.jpg?w=1800

*Specs: '19 Mazda 3 sedan
*
Length 183.5" (Mazda 3 Hatchback is 175.6") _VW Golf is 167.5"_
Width 70.7"

hope that makes sense..


----------



## Monocrom

It does. Thank you.


----------



## StarHalo

Lots of brand new Jeep Wrangler and Chevy Silverado parts just became available, just gotta wait for the state of Nevada to retrieve them all..


----------



## Monocrom

That's just a shame.... genuinely wondering if any of those Jeeps still run.


----------



## orbital

+

Historic day for GM tomorrow *07.18.19

*IMSA is at Lime Rock this weekend, would love to see the unveiling there on Sam Posey Straight


----------



## StarHalo

Watched Chevrolet's reveal ceremony with Cleetus & co.; *mid-mounted* 6.2L *naturally-aspirated* "LT2" small-block V8 good for 495 hp/470 lb ft, 8-speed dual clutch transmission only, routed to the rear wheels through an electronic limited slip diff. The body is specifically manufactured to be left- or *right-hand drive*, and the *removable top canopy panel is standard equipment* - all Corvettes are now targas. *0-60 in under 3 seconds*, starting at *under $60K*. The word used most often was "supercar", they really want you know that this isn't your father's Corvette out to spar with the Ford Thunderbird..


----------



## orbital

+

I didn't catch the reveal but would have liked to see it in silver,, such a classic Vette color.
that's super nit-picky

What one needs to take away is the *value*
For $60K, you get huge performance from a U.S. manufacturer/classic mark

... that same $60K gets you the 'super exclusive brake & wheel upgrade' for some Euro brand _______ that's installed 



_btw: you will see one lap comparison times ect. compared to a front engined Vettes, there will be chatter for sure.
I'll add to that_


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> Watched Chevrolet's reveal ceremony with Cleetus & co.; *mid-mounted* 6.2L *naturally-aspirated* "LT2" small-block V8 good for 495 hp/470 lb ft, 8-speed dual clutch transmission only, routed to the rear wheels through an electronic limited slip diff. The body is specifically manufactured to be left- or *right-hand drive*, and the *removable top canopy panel is standard equipment* - all Corvettes are now targas. *0-60 in under 3 seconds*, starting at *under $60K*. The word used most often was "supercar", they really want you know that this isn't your father's Corvette out to spar with the Ford Thunderbird..



Finally a mid-engined Corvette! And amazing performance/value too. Chevy has been trying to market a mid-engined vette for decades w/o success. I remember seeing this mid-engined prototype vette at Laguna Seca in 87' at the Monterey Historic Races.


----------



## StarHalo

You know we've been here a while when we watched the last time a Corvette debuted, and like last time Leno gets to walk around one first (good view of the engine bay/trunk and startup sound):





orbital said:


> I didn't catch the reveal but would have liked to see it in silver,, such a classic Vette color.



Go play with the Corvette Visualizer; for Blade Silver Metallic, I came up with this: 








SCEMan said:


> Chevy has been trying to market a mid-engined vette for decades w/o success. I remember seeing this mid-engined prototype vette at Laguna Seca in 87' at the Monterey Historic Races.



I built a model of the CERV III in the 90's, and though it was never manufactured, bits and pieces of its design were used on future Corvettes (though the all wheel drive feature is yet to be seen..)


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

So, New Car Guys, will Cleetus actually be able to purchase one of these for close to $60,000? If so, how long will he have to wait?


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> So, New Car Guys, will Cleetus actually be able to purchase one of these for close to $60,000? If so, how long will he have to wait?



He said they're getting one, but I'm not sure how he'll use it as there's only so much you can do to make a dragster of a RWD mid-engined car (though since we've already thrown front-engine tradition out the window, is the AWD variant forthcoming?); it would make an unparalleled drift car though..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Cleetus and James modify the Galaxy's fuel system. :laughing: 






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKpeR8WHQ2A


----------



## idleprocess

orbital said:


> What one needs to take away is the *value*
> For $60K, you get huge performance from a U.S. manufacturer/classic mark



I am surely not the target market - I _grudgingly_ paid just short of $30k for my present daily. Which is almost double what I paid for its predecessor some ten years previous and it's nowhere near double the car.

I can however hope that the C8 produces additional downward momentum on the late C5 / early C6 market such that I can entertain the thought of procuring an example with some 15 years' use on it.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> He said they're getting one, but I'm not sure how he'll use it as there's only so much you can do to make a dragster of a RWD mid-engined car (though since we've already thrown front-engine tradition out the window, is the AWD variant forthcoming?); it would make an unparalleled drift car though..



My questions had more to do with these actually being available for under 60 grand. I'm wondering if the supply will be sufficient enough so buyers won't need to pay a premium to drive away in one.


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> I can however hope that the C8 produces additional downward momentum on the late C5 / early C6 market such that I can entertain the thought of procuring an example with some 15 years' use on it.


It ain't the payments, it's the insurance..



Chauncey Gardiner said:


> My questions had more to do with these actually being available for under 60 grand. I'm wondering if the supply will be sufficient enough so buyers won't need to pay a premium to drive away in one.



Oh, ha, forget it. Same number of people who got $30K Teslas.


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> My questions had more to do with these actually being available for under 60 grand. I'm wondering if the supply will be sufficient enough so buyers won't need to pay a premium to drive away in one.



..or I could be wrong; this guy just put a deposit down with the dealer guaranteeing MSRP, and it sounds like he's specifically going for base model.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> ..or I could be wrong; this guy just put a deposit down with the dealer guaranteeing MSRP, and it sounds like he's specifically going for base model.



 Crap! I have T-Shirts older than that guy. :laughing:


----------



## Monocrom

I have underwear older than that guy.


----------



## orbital

+

Check me on this, but I think this is the first time GMs' taking down-payments on securing cars.

Full gas on production shifts in Kentucky


----------



## orbital

+

Saw the C8 in person this morning at Road America, 9:20am it was 3~4 deep to see it at the Chevrolet tent/experience area
.. in a bronze color, which was a interesting change from all your basic colors.

First impressions: a smaller C7 with the motor in the back.

Nice car lines overall, flowing from the interesting front grill. _ will say this, I prefer smoother car lines, not so many straight lines & sharp angles
(just my opinion)_

Is it still a Corvette & still a muscle car? _____yes, but the definition has changed a bit.


----------



## StarHalo

..and just like last time, a GM development driver provides the first sendoff (near Yosemite, CA):


----------



## StarHalo

After more than a year of drag strip runs, dyno pulls, and a 1,300 mile cross country drive, Cleetus & Co.'s centerpiece Corvette now has an introduction - it took bolting the car directly to the dyno and running on a new-in-box clutch, but Leroy finally has official horsepower and torque numbers:


----------



## Burgess

Great Thread here !

lovecpf


I spotted THIS today,
and just wanted to share it with all of you.

Enjoy . . . .



https://www.empshield.com/product/v...2_CXTPWrOx-x7snYf0BM39DO5JjUMfVWWpnpYTbzrU6Qs


----------



## idleprocess

Burgess said:


> Great Thread here !
> 
> lovecpf
> 
> 
> I spotted THIS today,
> and just wanted to share it with all of you.
> 
> Enjoy . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.empshield.com/product/v...2_CXTPWrOx-x7snYf0BM39DO5JjUMfVWWpnpYTbzrU6Qs



Seems like it's in the same genre as the 100 MPG carb, fuel line magnets, and the Tornado Air intake - except the precious few times when one can "field test" this product it probably doesn't matter if it works as claimed or not since users will have *Far Larger Problems™* to address.


----------



## StarHalo

The full convertible C8 will be introduced shortly.

Video of whole flocks of C8s, many different colors and option groupings; the metallic colors really exaggerate body creases, natural/tan interior brings the car a step closer to Italy, the no wing option is somehow stunning, body color vents makes them fade into the bodywork, etc:


----------



## boo5ted

StarHalo said:


> [FONT="]Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Curabitur imperdiet dolor tortor, ut rhoncus purus cursus et. Suspendisse nec turpis dolor. Sed scelerisque, risus id pellentesque mattis, felis mi accumsan nulla, non suscipit justo justo et ligula. Curabitur ultricies laoreet ex eget mattis. Fusce in aliquet lacus, vitae gravida velit. Aenean facilisis urna ac tempor bibendum. Ut aliquet non nisl nec tristique. Duis ut congue justo. Etiam eu fermentum quam. Sed eu ligula eget est mollis ornare. Sed eleifend turpis arcu, et finibus odio euismod sit amet.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]Aenean mauris sem, varius nec aliquam sed, dapibus id eros. Duis sodales, ipsum vel tempus accumsan, tellus urna rhoncus est, sed commodo purus orci vitae nisi. Fusce pulvinar velit ut lacus finibus facilisis. Vestibulum vel consequat tortor. Morbi malesuada massa id dolor mattis malesuada. Sed sed magna feugiat, lobortis ipsum et, bibendum nisl. Proin laoreet purus eu orci tristique interdum. Proin pellentesque ullamcorper lorem, sit amet fermentum erat posuere ac. Praesent bibendum pharetra dictum. Sed purus sapien, laoreet non auctor nec, egestas vitae lacus. Proin tristique vestibulum placerat. In vehicula, nisi in facilisis molestie, nisl metus interdum sem, id porta nibh neque at mauris.[/FONT][FONT="]Integer interdum magna ut mi imperdiet pulvinar. Sed quam lacus, feugiat eget suscipit sit amet, vulputate at nunc. Etiam felis tortor, vestibulum eget sem nec, lobortis laoreet purus. Nulla et purus ligula. Sed vitae purus sit amet massa fermentum consectetur. Maecenas et nulla quis ipsum malesuada dictum. Aenean elementum consequat ante, sed feugiat augue. Phasellus quis euismod orci.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]Nullam mollis blandit lectus at accumsan. In vehicula orci nibh, ut facilisis augue laoreet vitae. Nullam mollis odio enim, nec sodales est dictum ac. Morbi suscipit magna leo, non aliquam ex egestas id. Ut eget purus erat. Donec semper a lectus at tristique. Fusce porttitor placerat convallis. Curabitur congue enim vitae urna tristique consectetur. Mauris a velit non augue fringilla ullamcorper quis non erat.[/FONT][FONT="]Fusce aliquam auctor rutrum. Nulla consectetur, tellus et tristique luctus, velit ligula pretium erat, in semper odio enim sit amet arcu. Praesent condimentum massa convallis auctor commodo. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Integer mi ex, malesuada sed massa sit amet, tempus vulputate leo. Donec pretium augue in malesuada tincidunt. Pellentesque rutrum libero a ante feugiat blandit. Ut nec volutpat metus, ac dapibus libero. Proin pretium nisl est, eu pretium orci interdum eu. Cras consectetur velit sed libero condimentum, in fringilla lectus egestas. Curabitur libero quam, posuere non condimentum non, bibendum id nibh. Sed pretium arcu non est vulputate, quis pretium nibh blandit. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos himenaeos. Quisque sit amet nisi interdum, ornare arcu sit amet, dapibus augue. Nulla sit amet mi mollis, varius dui eget, dignissim leo.
> 
> [/FONT]











Can't stand Streetdrive 420


----------



## StarHalo

boo5ted said:


> Can't stand Streetdrive 420



Yeah, not a fan of the rich guy douchery, but it's good coverage of a very good event, roughly a dozen C8s with many different options.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Team McFarland is heading back to Australia to do some competitive burnouts. But this time they'll be driving their own 10.3 liter supercharged Camaro.


----------



## Monocrom

StarHalo said:


> Yeah, not a fan of the rich guy douchery, but it's good coverage of a very good event, roughly a dozen C8s with many different options.



Yeah, sometimes you can't be picky about which events highlight a car you want to learn more about. Or, which individuals cover those cars.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> Yeah, not a fan of the rich guy douchery, but it's good coverage of a very good event, roughly a dozen C8s with many different options.



I stopped watching Street Speed 717 a while back. There was just too much profanity for me to enjoy his content. I was pleasantly surprised to not hear any in the above-quoted video. :thumbsup: 

He's young and apparently, he's learning.


----------



## StarHalo

World's first *Vantablack* vehicle, BMW's X6; that's it pictured in the video preview, it's not a photoshop, you're looking at the actual car:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> World's first *Vantablack* vehicle, BMW's X6; that's it pictured in the video preview, it's not a photoshop, you're looking at the actual car:



Making a disappearance in the next John Wick movie.


----------



## nosuchagency

took my 5.0 in for service this a.m. and ran across one of these...


----------



## nosuchagency

if strong armed, reckon i'd go along with one of these...


----------



## StarHalo

nosuchagency said:


> if strong armed, reckon i'd go along with one of these...



A dude in town has one of those; you can hear it many streets away, it always sounds like it's racing hard under load though he's not moving any faster than traffic..


----------



## nosuchagency

that sound alone is probably 25% of sticker, lol.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

It's a shame the Bullitt doesn't more closely resemble the original. It was much better lookin!


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> It's a shame the Bullitt doesn't more closely resemble the original. It was much better lookin!



Well that's a green GT but it ain't Bullitt..

You can better appreciate the new model by hearing it ruin a set of tires:


----------



## nosuchagency

never, ever, and i mean never, let anyone drive your ride unsupervised...


----------



## StarHalo

Doug DeMuro thoroughly reviews one of my favorite cars, rightfully declaring it the greatest hot hatch of all time:


----------



## boo5ted

I like that they gave the front seat power windows but the rear are manual lol.


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Doug DeMuro thoroughly reviews one of my favorite cars, rightfully declaring it the greatest hot hatch of all time:



+
yep!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpFY27_yEYw


----------



## Burgess

Interesting . . . . .


https://drivetribe.com/p/the-fastes...mpaign=main+&utm_medium=fb&utm_source=organic


----------



## SCEMan

Saw this Mclaren 570s parked in the Lake Arrowhead Village :thumbsup:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

SCEMan said:


> Saw this parked in the Lake Arrowhead Village :thumbsup:



Beautiful automobile! Reminds me of a program The Lovely Mrs. Gardiner and I lucked upon on Nexflix last night. 

Paul Hollywood"s Big Continental Road Trip 

We really enjoyed it. :twothumbs


----------



## SCEMan

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Beautiful automobile! Reminds me of a program The Lovely Mrs. Gardiner and I lucked upon on Nexflix last night.
> 
> Paul Hollywood"s Big Continental Road Trip
> 
> We really enjoyed it. :twothumbs



Thanks, I'll have to check it out.


----------



## boo5ted

SCEMan said:


> Saw this Mclaren 570s parked in the Lake Arrowhead Village :thumbsup:




Actually that's a 600LT, based off of a 570S.


----------



## SCEMan

boo5ted said:


> Actually that's a 600LT, based off of a 570S.


Good catch.


----------



## boo5ted

SCEMan said:


> Good catch.



With the front splitter, side skirts, fender vents and the rear wing being 600LT specific, it's kind of an easy catch lol. 

Too bad that one doesn't have the roof scoop, totally changes the look of the car for the better.


----------



## StarHalo

Some dude in town daily drives a 720; hard to miss in _Fistral Blue_..


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> Some dude in town daily drives a 720; hard to miss in _Fistral Blue_..



Must be a real drag to drive a Mclaren in SoCal traffic


----------



## LeanBurn

Aerodynamic drag if he drives with the doors up like that....

I still enjoy a good MP4-12C in burnt orange color....


----------



## boo5ted

LeanBurn said:


> I still enjoy a good MP4-12C in burnt orange color....



I miss the sound of the 12C/675LT/P1, the new 570S/600LT/720S/Senna just doesn't have the same low end growl as the others. They don't sound that horrible, but they don't sound that good either lol.


----------



## orbital

+

During last Junes' 24 hour le mans, the talk was of the new 2020 FIA _'hypercar'_ class,
it's basically the current full prototype (hybrid) cars in a GT* body.

So take a* McLaren Speedtail*, do all the safety stuff, put a number on the side & let 'er rip..


*loose definition


----------



## StarHalo

As promised; starting at $68K:


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> As promised; starting at $68K:



Pretty, but you used to able to spot a Corvette without reading the name...


----------



## orbital

+

GTLM race version of the Vette ~~ *C8.R
*note the diffuser out back, _where the magic happens

_https://autoweek.com/article/imsa/f...es-unexpected-appearance-kennedy-space-center


----------



## StarHalo

Still laughing: What happens if you put 10 lb weights in each of your rear tires? Action starts at 5:16:


----------



## StarHalo

C8 dealer delivery day, here come the reviews; join Matt Farah as he drives VIN #16 with 3LT + Z51 packages a little too hard around the track:


----------



## SCEMan

This happens fairly often in SoCal 
https://ktla.com/2019/10/23/driver-...into-light-pole-catches-fire-in-laguna-hills/


----------



## nosuchagency

my freshly warshed yote...


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

That's a beauty.


----------



## StarHalo

Available soon in large:


----------



## boo5ted

Larger and heavier than a standard Mustang, imagine how many more people it can take out!


----------



## StarHalo

1993 Cadillac Seville STS, 66,000 miles, one owner, gorgeous condition, runs smooth, cold A/C. So let's take it to Carmax and see how much it's worth:


----------



## Monocrom

I'd definitely offer more for a Caddy in such good shape.


----------



## orbital

+

*"But it's always nice to have official figures from Chevy to back all that up, 
so here they are: The base model Corvette coupe does 0-60 mph in an even 3.0 seconds"

re: C8 from Autoweek

*obviously the Z51 is even quickerness


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> C8 dealer delivery day, here come the reviews; join Matt Farah as he drives VIN #16 with 3LT + Z51 packages a little too hard around the track:




+

pardon the double post, but I watched this video just now.

the Road & Track contributor Matt Farah has three world class tracks on his wall in the background (artwork)

1: Monticello
2: Nordschleife
3: Road America

I live within walking distance to Road America, truly grew up there


----------



## Busa Dave

https://youtu.be/Tckuwxym_G0

Here is my C7 Z06 on the first start after the major engine work.


----------



## orbital

+

Can't figure out why, but the CX-5 Diesel mpg numbers are very so/so
Mazda doesn't even list the City numbers w/ a Hwy number of low 30s'

For combined mpg in the upper 20s' sales will be, well so/so


----------



## StarHalo

Looks like it'll be a while before there are more Corvette reviews; the GM strike means *customers' orders are now delayed until February*. 

Meanwhile over at Ford, here's that aforementioned large Mustang; all-electric, no fewer than 230 mile range, can charge 47 miles in 10 minutes with special charger, rear or AWD, $44k to start, the $60k GT model will hit sixty in mid-threes.


----------



## boo5ted




----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

boo5ted, Not a fan? :laughing:


----------



## idleprocess

Trying to decide if Ford is being clever or foolish with the dilution of the _Mustang_ brand by extending it to something that is clearly not what the market currently understands it to be. It may well be shrewd - the extent that it turns off the Mustang fanbase _to the point they don't buy another Mustang_ may well be statistically insignificant relative to whatever sales bump it gives the EV over whatever other branding they would have given it.


----------



## Nitroz

orbital said:


> +
> 
> GTLM race version of the Vette ~~ *C8.R
> *note the diffuser out back, _where the magic happens
> 
> _https://autoweek.com/article/imsa/f...es-unexpected-appearance-kennedy-space-center


It's a Forvette, imo.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Candlepowerforums mobile app


----------



## boo5ted

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> boo5ted, Not a fan? :laughing:




The car? Yes. 

The SUV? No sir. 





Nitroz said:


> It's a Forvette, imo.



What's a "Forvette"?


----------



## Nitroz

boo5ted said:


> The car? Yes.
> 
> The SUV? No sir.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's a "Forvette"?


Looks like a Ferrari. [emoji1] 

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Candlepowerforums mobile app


----------



## boo5ted

I've said that about the C7 front end, looks REALLY close to the F12 imo.


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> Trying to decide if Ford is being clever or foolish with the dilution of the _Mustang_ brand by extending it to something that is clearly not what the market currently understands it to be. It may well be shrewd - the extent that it turns off the Mustang fanbase _to the point they don't buy another Mustang_ may well be statistically insignificant relative to whatever sales bump it gives the EV over whatever other branding they would have given it.



Chevy already has a pony car/Camaro -looking SUV in the admittedly handsome Blazer, and the American manufacturers have to build something to take on Tesla at some point - just kill all the birds with one stone. Doesn't mean it'll work, but it's an idea..



boo5ted said:


> I've said that about the C7 front end, looks REALLY close to the F12 imo.



"Why is this Corvette hissing at me.."


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> G



* post from 4 years ago, just cuz
*
That car will never be uncool .*


----------



## StarHalo

Ken Block fills the valleys in China with tire smoke; bonus impossible camera shot at 4:00:


----------



## StarHalo

Cleetus & Co. vs Boostedboiz Build Wars Day 1: Two copies of the same vehicle, $3K to spend, must compete in 1/8th mile, burnout, and wheelie competitions.


----------



## alpg88

anyone else got their daily dose of shock after musk introduced their pick up?? wow, i really hope he is trolling, and it is just a test platform for components


----------



## orbital

+

..little too much 'Mars Kool-Aid'


----------



## bigburly912

Looks like the truck off the old Halo video game.


----------



## StarHalo

At least we know for sure he was really smoking weed.


----------



## Monocrom

When you have the money to make your fantasy delusions, into reality.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Back to the future.


----------



## idleprocess

There's probably _*a*_ market for something that looks exactly like that. I just don't think it's large enough to justify launching the vehicle as-is.

I can appreciate some of the underlying concepts. The slab-sided design in particular - modern trucks are as sculpted as modern cars, thus every scratch and dent is _magnified_. With the exoskeleton concept _out of stainless_, dents pretty much won't happen and scratches won't stand out and will become part of the character of the vehicle.

But, wow, is that squashed-pentagon side profile problematic when it comes to usage. Sure, the market here is firmly _lifestyle trucks_https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgor...ps-the-next-big-thing-in-trucks/#15c0070e4c3f, which do serious hauling and towing perhaps ~annually. But corner cases _drive vehicle purchasing decisions_ - be it 0-100 times for sports cars, 9-passenger seating in the family SUV "for soccer practice", or towing capacity for the daily driver full-size truck - these may not be used routinely enough to justify the purchase economically, but their presence is important during that all-important moment when the customer _makes the decision to buy_.

The Cybertruck may well hit a number of lifestyle truck qualifications on paper in terms of bed capacity/weight rating, towing capacity, etc. But it's also missing numerous key features such as easy side-access to the bed and compatibility with common truck accessories that will work on pretty much every other _lifestyle truck_. Sure, it can tow, go grab a load of mulch, and likely offroad like other trucks. But as it currently stands there's not a lot of path towards the commercial vehicles that the _lifestyle truck_ is drawn from. Love them or hate them, full-size trucks have evolved steadily over the past ~century towards their present form _for good reasons_ that suit the needs of commercial users. And this appeal is something that _lifestyle trucks_ lean on heavily in their marketing even if most of them will never haul horse trailers nor sport a ladder rack in their life.

Thus, while it is very likely that Tesla will release a truck called the Cybertruck, I suspect the final product will undergo some changes.

*Crash safety* : The present design looks like it will annihilate anything it comes into contact with - other cars, pedestrians, _its own occupants_. I suspect an actual release will incorporate something along the lines of crumple zones and some _cowcatcher-like_ elements so as not to strike pedestrians flat or with hard angles. It's possible to maintain the faceted look; _they'll just have to throw more polygons at the design_.
*Body profile* : While there's no need to amalgamate all the best features of the various full-size trucks on the market into something indistinguishable, there are still changes that could be made to nod towards the commercial use that _lifestyle trucks_ borrow their profiles from: easier side access to the bed, flat bed rails _(or the option to readily convert to flat bed rails)_, a flat roof. Something unique to EV drivetrains that Tesla could do is move the cab forward since the "frunk" isn't a critical feature and there's no need to dictate so much volume to engine bay - this could make the bed longer and/or create more volume for the cab.

And while Tesla is clearly aiming this at the _lifestyle truck_ segment, I see some potential in the commercial market. Some huge percentage of the work trucks I see in the DFW area pretty clearly drive no more than 100 miles a day only partially burdened with materials; I suspect this is common throughout the country. The ability to provide power to small/medium tools seems like a good feature - heck there's a mobile dog groomer that I see occasionally in my neighborhood whose generator can be heard for _blocks_.

_EDIT: I should add that while the article I linked cites "lifestyle trucks" as the emerging *mid-size* concept - ala the new Ford Ranger, Chevy Colorado, and the Jeep Gladiator - here in DFW the 1500-class quad-cab truck has been the daily driver of choice for a large segment of the population for going on two decades. A 1500-class truck won't be seen hauling a gooseneck trailer but they do consistently switch-hit as lighter-duty work trucks, especially by the time they're 15+ years old on their 3rd+ owner, and are sporting ladder racks, serious towing packages, well-used toolboxes, and a random collection of dents and scratches the owner would never consider fixing._


----------



## StarHalo

Gotta take into account the "openness to new experiences" of the prospective buyer - truck guys accept virtually nothing, this is the same group of people that panned the Honda Ridgeline because it wasn't truck-ish enough. If Musk is set on going radically different for a truck design, that means Ford will win the game when they introduce the electric F150 in 2021.


----------



## StarHalo

It's the weekend, spend 45 minutes with Cleetus and the boys preparing some remarkably violent golf carts:


----------



## idleprocess

StarHalo said:


> Gotta take into account the "openness to new experiences" of the prospective buyer - truck guys accept virtually nothing, this is the same group of people that panned the Honda Ridgeline because it wasn't truck-ish enough. If Musk is set on going radically different for a truck design, that means Ford will win the game when they introduce the electric F150 in 2021.



The _brodozer_ segment has zero interest in anything that's not a large-displacement internal combustion engine - ideally diesel - to say anything of a marquee like Tesla lacking pedigree.

Whatever inroads Tesla hopes to make into the pickup truck market will be in the lifestyle segment that wants a daily driver that can also make *occasional* runs to the local home despot, haul a trailer, or depart from pavement. To the extent that they make the design _sufficiently conventional_ that they can bridge to the lighter-duty work truck segment then perhaps they can make some inroads with the fringes of the brodozer demographic ... in a decade or so.

However I also expect other players to make moves there faster into the electric work truck market than Tesla - i.e. Ford, Rivian, Workhorse.


----------



## trailhunter

Brodozer haha

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## StarHalo

Can't believe they just give away this footage for free on Youtube; Cleetus and Cars 2019 + Build Wars final day race:


----------



## StarHalo

Bonus: Sit inside Leroy and Ruby as they go down the dragstrip *viewing through Youtube's VR180 camera - you can freely move the camera view to look around *(click and drag anywhere in the view.) Now you can see 180 mph looking sideways..


----------



## orbital

+

Couple year ago, (two doors down from me) a young family moved in,, super nice people
anyway, he's a Air Force pilot, some kind of special force operation..

They have a Tesla

On Monday I was talking guy stuff with him in his driveway & after a bit I pointed to his Tesla, asked him about the Tesla truck,,
(I really thought he would completely be into the truck & support Musk in any way)

He half rolled his eyes a & kinda laughed, asked me if I saw the video puling a F150, I said no.
basically he said it was completely unfair saying the Tesla even got a head start.

What's my point?,, never prejudge people & *Musk, you need to compare Coconuts to Coconuts! *


----------



## StarHalo

Buick has discontinued all their sedans for the 2020 model year and will only offer SUVs and crossovers from here on out. The TourX wagon is also dead, leaving the wagon market almost exclusively to the Subaru Outback:


----------



## Monocrom

Meh.... Buick's sedans were Meh for decades.


----------



## SCEMan

Monocrom said:


> Meh.... Buick's sedans were Meh for decades.



Except for the Grand National & GNX in the 80's...


----------



## Monocrom

SCEMan said:


> Except for the Grand National & GNX in the 80's...




Yup, just that beautiful, gorgeous, muscular exception to the rule. How do you make cars for countless decades and people can name all the best ones from your brand, on one hand.... and still have fingers left over! :shakehead


----------



## aginthelaw

There’s a guy near me that has 4 grand nationals. Special garage with trophies, neon lights, mirrors. And i just want one.


----------



## Monocrom

aginthelaw said:


> There’s a guy near me that has 4 grand nationals. Special garage with trophies, neon lights, mirrors. And i just want one.




Yeah, me too.


----------



## StarHalo

The exotic car so wacky and rare that no one gave it more than a one-page review gets the full Doug DeMuro longform evaluation:


----------



## boo5ted

I've always love the Vectors.


----------



## StarHalo

Taking a bad idea and going much further with it; the WhistlinDiesel truck boys think the Mythbusters' square wheels experiment would have gone better if they'd done it offroad, so time to mount some metal boxes on the Duramax and head out to the muddy field:


----------



## orbital

+

re: *crom* ride

Saw a CT200h early this morning, for some reason I thought of you (although we never met lol)
in black & it caught my attention. Functional/super fuel efficient 5-door hatch

like this in black::


----------



## StarHalo

More bad ideas


----------



## StarHalo

..cont'd..


----------



## orbital

+

C8.R engine note=== https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMerEZYwMnQ&feature=emb_logo

try to guess the engine displacement on that engine note:thinking: high revving 5L??

The 2020 Daytona 24h starts on Jan.25th on NBC channels


----------



## boo5ted

orbital said:


> +
> 
> C8.R engine note=== https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMerEZYwMnQ&feature=emb_logo
> 
> try to guess the engine displacement on that engine note:thinking: high revving 5L??
> 
> The 2020 Daytona 24h starts on Jan.25th on NBC channels



Please be the Blackwing, please be the Blackwing.


****edit****


Nope, 5.5L DOHC flat plane crank V8. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.caranddriver.com/news/amp29429819/chevy-corvette-c8-r-engine/


----------



## StarHalo

Sold; $3.74 million.


----------



## nosuchagency




----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

^ Very cool!  nsa


----------



## StarHalo

Phrase of the day: "Rocking Horse." Do you like loud New York wiseguys in back alleys? Do you hate '00s SUVs?


----------



## StarHalo

Split the chassis and double the fun


----------



## StarHalo

So what's the deal with the Japanese wide body Porsches? A quick jaunt to 140 mph might explain it..


----------



## orbital

+

EV Hummer 

*1,000 HP and 11,500 LB-FT*



let that torque number sink-in a bit,,, holy


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Let the good times ROLL!!!


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Let the good times ROLL!!!



They'll rock it for a couple of years and then need a larger location. Funny to think that the story for ages has been how race tracks are dying, the key to swinging the pendulum the other way turns out to be internet videos..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> They'll rock it for a couple of years and then need a larger location. Funny to think that the story for ages has been how race tracks are dying, the key to swinging the pendulum the other way turns out to be internet videos..



Our two local tracks died when new housing developments were built adjacent them, people moved in knowing full well the tracks were noisy, then filed complaints with the county about the noise. :banned:


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> Funny to think that the story for ages has been how race tracks are dying..



So true. I still miss the great times I had watching IMSA races at Riverside International Raceway


----------



## orbital

SCEMan said:


> So true. I still miss the great times I had watching IMSA races at Riverside International Raceway



+

Nothing will top the days of the GTP cars, 

..one of the very best engine notes I _felt_ in person was the V12 Jag


----------



## SCEMan

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Nothing will top the days of the GTP cars,
> ..one of the very best engine notes I _felt_ in person was the V12 Jag



So true. I remember the battles between the Porsche 962 V6 turbos of Al Holbert and the Jaguar V12s. The Jaguar would dominate the twisty parts but ultimately the 962 turbo would pull away on the straights. Amazing racing. In '86 I was sitting in the stands at turn 6 at Riverside for the horrific 3-car crash (Corvette/Ford Probe/Jaguar) that sent Chip Robinson's Jaguar airborne and destroyed it. Fortunately no one was seriously hurt.


----------



## StarHalo

Car physics simulators are now so realistic that they can be entertaining just to watch:


----------



## orbital

+

Tesla stock had gone absolutely vertical in the last several weeks (why could be a debate battery advancement maybe)

With the stock ownership Elon Musk has in Tesla,, he has become *$500,000,000 per day** richer since the new year.





*yes, per day
_wonder what that comes out per minute?_


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Tesla stock had gone absolutely vertical in the last several weeks (why could be a debate



Q4/holiday results; I made as much from my Amazon stock as I did my Amazon job on Q4-annoucement Friday. 

In other news, C8 Corvette production has started. Meanwhile over at Ford:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> Q4/holiday results; I made as much from my Amazon stock as I did my Amazon job on Q4-annoucement Friday.



:goodjob: That is awesome! :twothumbs


----------



## orbital

+

wish I put $5000 in Tesla 10 years ago, so I could sell it & buy a Nikola Badger

:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:


----------



## Marcturus

Probably a Ferrari, but which model?

https://www.godmode-trader.de/analyse/greta-tesla-und-die-alte-welt,8058993


----------



## StarHalo

Driving around in the C8 Corvette; love that bright interior:


----------



## StarHalo

So if you bought one of those 30,000 lb tow capacity HD trucks, what kind of MPG/ride/experience would you get from actually towing 30,000 lbs?


----------



## StarHalo

StreetSpeed is the first YouTuber to take delivery of a C8; skip to 7:00 for unwrapping, 22:35 for first person view driving:


----------



## StarHalo

Other news:

Tesla production number 1,000,000 is this bright red Model Y:







The Ram Hellcat is greenlit for production:


----------



## StarHalo

Emelia's never owned a new car or a car worth more than $10K, today she takes delivery of her white-with-red-interior C8:


----------



## StarHalo

Just a quick proof-of-concept; Hennessey's twin turbo C8 - keeps the trunk and about six inches of exhaust on each side, the bad news is that the transmission probably won't accept more than a mild boost:


----------



## RedLED

That C8 in red kind of reminds me of my Ferrari 308 GTS I used to have, kind of?


----------



## StarHalo

There are shades of a Ferrari or two depending on which angle you're looking at, but the C8 has the power output of an F40, so you're looking at being at least four full seconds faster to the quarter mile over a 308..


----------



## orbital

+

SH,, you post tons on the C8
got a bit of a soft spot for them??

I'll bet within the year, my neighbor will have a white one


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> SH,, you post tons on the C8
> got a bit of a soft spot for them??



Anytime there's a new Corvette, it's basically the only car story for a few months, and that's especially true now that the mid-engined layout has arrived after ~50 years; the only other notable cars news going on off the top of my head is the Toyota RAV-4 Hybrid vs Honda CR-V Hybrid, the 'Vette is more fun to watch..

But for variety and levity's sake, here's RCR's hilarious review of the Jeep Whatever:


----------



## knucklegary

^ 2-1/2 cyls of roaring Fiat power house! 

My only issue with the new (or any yr) vette is car sits too low to get up my driveway into my shop

I would need a level lot, and paved driveway, then I'd take silver C8 😎


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Anyone else planning on watching the Freedom 500? 




*RACE INFO:*



Friday Night April 3, 2020
Broadcast starts at 7pm EST
Race starts at 8pm EST
100 Laps at Freedom Factory
23 Nitrous-equipped Crown Vic’s
Cleetus & Friends, 23 drivers entered
 https://www.cleetusmcfarland.com/freedom500/


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Anyone else planning on watching the Freedom 500?



It's a workday, otherwise I just might have to. A shame Matt can't come, but it'll still be a ball.

Already got some paint-swappin' action on my way home this evening, all of California is a Freedom Factory..


----------



## ven

RedLED said:


> That C8 in red kind of reminds me of my Ferrari 308 GTS I used to have, kind of?




I knew it! I knew there was even more than meets the eye with Red, you are magnum! 

I loved that show, why was TV so much cooler int he 80's, A team, nightrider......


----------



## RedLED

Ven,

That was a long time ago. Sadly, I don't do cars like that anymore but I still have my sport bikes.


----------



## RedLED

ven said:


> I knew it! I knew there was even more than meets the eye with Red, you are magnum!
> 
> I loved that show, why was TV so much cooler int he 80's, A team, nightrider......


Magnum was a fun show he had the Ferrari, a .45, girls and it was filmed in Hawaii. I love Hawaii.


----------



## ven

RedLED said:


> Magnum was a fun show he had the Ferrari, a .45, girls and it saw filmed in Hawaii. I love Hawaii.




I think i know the secret to having it all..........it has to be the mustache 

Agree, i need to watch that over, Higgins and all!


----------



## Fish 14

My 2 boys. Gto is putting out 620rwhp.


----------



## StarHalo

There should be sports on a holiday Sunday; the entire 3+ hours of the Freedom 500:


----------



## StarHalo

Rollin' on 13s in a Hummer:


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Q4/holiday results; I made as much from my Amazon stock as I did my Amazon job on Q4-annoucement Friday.



+

Amazon set an all time record high for its stock price today, all time high.
With business' & industries crumbling right now ==== *Amazon grabs the next higher gear.
*
just incredible


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> Amazon set an all time record high for its stock price today, all time high.
> With business' & industries crumbling right now ==== *Amazon grabs the next higher gear.
> *
> just incredible



And they gave us a $2/hr raise
And they're offering full double-time for any overtime
And there's so many people signed up for overtime that some people are being turned down
And it's completely optional to come into work now, or show up on time
And roughly half the faces I see at work now are completely new
And there are more groups of new people being trained every day like it's holiday season

The times they are a-changin'..

In actual car news; one of my fave episodes of Neutral Drop, all you have to do to have fun in a minivan is destroy it:


----------



## boo5ted

StarHalo said:


> Rollin' on 13s in a Hummer:





No


----------



## StarHalo

boo5ted said:


> No



That entire wheel and tire package is probably cheaper than one Hummer wheel, and who wouldn't want the exhilaration of traction control constantly intervening during city driving or 5000 rpm on the freeway..

It does work better on smaller cars:


----------



## boo5ted

Still doesn't make it right lol.


----------



## orbital

+

The next Mazda 6 is slated for a straight 6 motor & rear wheels drive

..the reason I find this interesting is that straight 6s' just sound so great, that smooth/punchy exhaust note******
_its gotta be a manual transmission _


----------



## StarHalo

orbital said:


> The next Mazda 6 is slated for a straight 6 motor & rear wheels drive



If you're already copying BMW that closely, you may as well go for their drivetrain layout too. Not much to hear with the modern plastic panel-armored engines though. 

Other news: Let's take a drive around town in a completely street-legal 3,000+ HP drag car with power windows and steering, and plenty of cupholders. I never considered it before, but I guess with a fully slammed drag car, you basically sit back up against the rear wheel tub:


----------



## orbital

+

There are lots of I6 rwd cars throughout history,, Nissan/Datsun ~ Triumph ~ BMW ~ Toyota ~ Jaguar ~ Mercedes ~ some others for sure .
_ exhaust note is usually out the pipes, not engine bay._


----------



## StarHalo

Ken Block's new toy, the Hoonifox; just when you'd thought you'd seen everything possible with a Fox body Mustang:


----------



## orbital

oops..


----------



## orbital

StarHalo said:


> Ken Block's new toy, the Hoonifox; just when you'd thought you'd seen everything possible with a Fox body Mustang:



+

1989


----------



## Frijid

This virus, plus with gas prices being 1.70 a gallon, I've seen an increase of exotic vehicles on the road. People must be self quarantined in their cabs. Saw a Subaru 360, Datsun 240z, GMC typhoon with an antique tag, Chevy LUV truck and a grand torino. Only 1 had an in state tag


----------



## StarHalo

Rollicking good Pathfinder vs Pathfinder 4LO push contest, starts at 5:30:


----------



## [email protected]

My weakness is beautiful and expensive cars. But, unfortunately, I can’t afford to buy them. My family and I were half a year ago in Dubai. Dubai is a colossal city in the whole world. From sandy beaches to hot desert safaris and artificial snow cottages for skiing to incredible architectural wonders, Dubai is an ideal tourist destination worldwide. To keep my favorite memories in my memory, I rented a luxury car for the entire Dubai tour. This car included, comfort, advanced features, high speed. I rented a car in a serious company, which gives a great opportunity to ride exotic dream cars on the roads of Dubai. You can see my car here ... spam link removed ...


----------



## StarHalo

Oh the good old days..

This Aussie for-parts Toyota Hilux had a photo dated 2000 in its glovebox:


----------



## StarHalo

Somebody figured out how to make a PT Cruiser cool, only a decade too late..


----------



## Monocrom

Such is life, sometimes.


----------



## StarHalo

Drag race: Hummer H1 vs Suzuki Jimny, maximum vs minumum:


----------



## LeanBurn

I wish Suzuki was in north America and sold the Jimny..😒


----------



## boo5ted

They were decades ago, back then it was called the Sidekick or Geo Tracker.


----------



## turbodog

boo5ted said:


> They were decades ago, back then it was called the Sidekick or Geo Tracker.



I remember when they first came out. Friend's dad worked from GM... got the very first ones that came out.

3 cylinder engine and a plastic radiator fan.


----------



## Monocrom

LeanBurn said:


> I wish Suzuki was in north America and sold the Jimny..



+1

Love the Jimmy. Would buy one in a heartbeat if I could.


----------



## Vajer

I used to have a powerful Subaru Impreza. Then I did not have a family. But then, when I had a wife and children I had to sell this machine and buy something inexpensive and family. After seeing the kia soul review, I realized that such a car would suit me.


----------



## Monocrom

Vajer said:


> I used to have a powerful Subaru Impreza. Then I did not have a family. But then, when I had a wife and children I had to sell this machine and buy something inexpensive and family. After seeing the kia soul review, I realized that such a car would suit me.




:welcome:

A good friend has leased multiple Souls. He finally broke down and bought the latest one because he loves it so much. He has the non-turbo charged version. The turbo isn't that good on the Soul. Otherwise, great vehicle. Heck, Jeep wanted a piece of the action. So they came out with their current version of the Renegade to get some of those Soul sales. 

Jeep did a great job tricking customers into thinking the Renegade is a Jeep. But except for the sheet metal, it's actually a Fiat underneath. An unreliable one. Oops, there goes my blatant honesty rearing it's ugly head again. No worries, you'll get use to that if you stick around. Lots of good people still here on CPF.


----------



## orbital

+

_*
"Powered by Mazda’s Skyactiv-G 2.5-liter turbocharged inline-4, the 2021 Mazda 3 will send 250 hp and 320 lb-ft of torque to the all-wheel-drive system."

*_*from: autoweek.com*



...likely automatic trans only


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

It's not a car, but it's got a car motor and it's too much fun not share. :twothumbs


----------



## raggie33

i still love the hot hatchback small petite car with a 4 banger engine makeing over 350 hp


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Gordon Murray, designer of the McLaren F1, now has the 3 seater T50 (US$3.1 million, 100 will be made). Described by Mr. Murray as the "ultimate analog supercar". Interesting fan technology, amongst others.

https://newatlas.com/automotive/gordon-murray-t-50-launch/

Any member that can share more information on this machine would be appreciated.


----------



## orbital

KITROBASKIN said:


> Gordon Murray, designer of the McLaren F1, now has the 3 seater T50 (US$3.1 million, 100 will be made). Described by Mr. Murray as the "ultimate analog supercar". Interesting fan technology, amongst others.
> 
> https://newatlas.com/automotive/gordon-murray-t-50-launch/
> 
> Any member that can share more information on this machine would be appreciated.



+

The fan out the back is very interesting.

_50 years ago Jim Hall invented the 2J for Can-Am racing,, the fans were for downforce_. https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a32350/jim-hall-chaparral-2j-history/
_ he also had the very first rear wing race car ever.._

*Maybe J. Bezos will buy two T50s', one shipped to the moon.*


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Interesting history, thanks orbital. Wondering if the T50 will blow road debris out the back end?


----------



## orbital

+

Talked to my brother the other day, I knew he had tons of issues w/ his Touareg TDi and VW couldn't fix it properly (not an opinion)
..so I asked him 'did you get a new car?'

He told me has an order placed on a F150 Hybrid, he also just had to tell me it went from *0~60mph in 5.4 seconds*: Jerk


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

boo5ted said:


> They were decades ago, back then it was called the Sidekick or Geo Tracker.


No, they were the same as the Suzuki Vitara, a more road biased vehicle with IFS.

The Jimny is the same range as the SJ40, I think N. America may have got them branded as the Samurai.


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

Monocrom said:


> +1
> 
> Love the Jimmy. Would buy one in a heartbeat if I could.


Will have had mine 1 year by next week. I can attest they are awesome!


----------



## raggie33

in 10 years eletric cars will be in the lead


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

raggie33 said:


> in 10 years eletric cars will be in the lead


Very doubtful IMO. There just isn’t the infrastructure to support them and unlikely to ever be so. To make them viable you pretty much need a charge point for every car. Certainly more than one charge point per household at any rate. 

Doing this will cost way too much. 

Not too mention the vast numbers of people who don’t have off road parking. City streets lined with enough charge points for every parked car is again way too expensive. Plus they take up room that might not be available. And high voltage “super chargers” are potentially highly hazardous. 

Talking of room and space. Towns and cities in the USA are all relatively young purpose built. But towns and cities across Europe are old and tend to have a lot less space and narrower roads. Huge limitations on places to put charge points.


----------



## raggie33

but there's is so many benifits to electric i predict a car with a eletric motor in each wheel hub for true all wheel drive. the new tesla is insane 0 to 60 in 2 seconds


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

raggie33 said:


> but there's is so many benifits to electric i predict a car with a eletric motor in each wheel hub for true all wheel drive. the new tesla is insane 0 to 60 in 2 seconds


0-60 is hardly the main priority for the vast majority of cars on the roads. Although I do think electric drive will become more popular. Not sure if it will be 4 motors, 2, with a gearbox/transmission or direct drive.


----------



## idleprocess

Chicken Drumstick said:


> Very doubtful IMO. There just isn’t the infrastructure to support them and unlikely to ever be so.


The electrical grid is _everywhere_ in the industrial world. It's generally got surplus capacity - especially at night - and sees continuous growth.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> To make them viable you pretty much need a charge point for every car. Certainly more than one charge point per household at any rate.


A dryer outlet (typically 240V 30A) is basically all it takes to charge a vehicle overnight. Home 'charge points' are essentially serial comms, a current sensor, and a contactor to prevent the breaker from tripping if the vehicle draws too much. With some ingenuity one can even share the same circuit with a dryer (or other high-power/low duty cycle load) and stay within the limits of many an electrical panel.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> Not too mention the vast numbers of people who don’t have off road parking. City streets lined with enough charge points for every parked car is again way too expensive. Plus they take up room that might not be available.


EVs can't accommodate every use case for sure - least of all _emergency trumpet repair_ and the "gas station" concept of being able to fill from empty in <10 minutes is not likely to succeed. The present deployment model is indeed heavily dependent upon dedicated parking and ideally private garages; some can make due with the greater range of modern EV's and public fast charging. I've seen a few deployments that utilized the incumbent infrastructure for old lampposts with wiring optimized for incandescent lamps that have the margin for overnight EV charging.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> And high voltage “super chargers” are potentially highly hazardous


So are RV park hookups yet there's precious little hand-wringing over those. More concerned about the thousands of gallons of volatile fuel stored at gas stations and the tens of gallons of it sloshing around in vehicle tanks on the move.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> 0-60 is hardly the main priority for the vast majority of cars on the roads. Although I do think electric drive will become more popular. Not sure if it will be 4 motors, 2, with a gearbox/transmission or direct drive.


Direct drive with a single reduction gear has been the model for pretty much all modern production EVs I'm aware of. Tesla's first Roadster prototypes were equipped with a 2-speed transmission whose main attributes were additional cost, complexity, weight, and _slower acceleration_.


----------



## turbodog

Well the bug is back...

I'm looking pretty hard at the 64 cobra again.

For those that own similar cars... how many miles do you normally drive them each year?


----------



## orbital

+

General Motors says they'll be all electric by 2035,, just 14 years.


side note: Tesla stock went up the other day*, in one day,* went up the total value of the Ford Motor Company.
In just one day.


----------



## raggie33

eletric has so much more benifits. i love gearheads who have huge diseil trucks who love to roll coal. then a eletric truck comes out tgat can blow there doors off lol


----------



## greenpondmike

I recon electric would work but it won't be any fun. Maybe if people could learn how to mod them. I have an electric chainsaw and it does well, but I use my husky gas burner the most.


----------



## raggie33

greenpondmike said:


> I recon electric would work but it won't be any fun. Maybe if people could learn how to mod them. I have an electric chainsaw and it does well, but I use my husky gas burner the most. I don't like technology myself. IMHO 60s and 70s technology was good enough, but if I had a 2nd choice maybe late 90s tech. I like computers, but I wish they were never invented. I'm personally not looking forward to these future changes.



my cordless brushless tools are so crazy good i have one with 650 pounds of power .i love tools.lol


----------



## greenpondmike

I admit the chain just needs sharpening once in a while on my electric chainsaw and the motor doesn't bog at all hardly, but it just doesn't have the same cool factor as the husky. I like smelling exhaust and the 2-stroke sound and if you crank it and put it on the ground running/idling for a few minutes the vibration from it will run off all the snakes near the area- this is true.

I also have several old vehicles I want to get on the road. Right now my project is a 1975 Ford F150 with the ranger package. It's got a 360fe engine in it. I want to turn it into an efficient torque monster that will eat my brother in laws chevies.


----------



## adnj

Chicken Drumstick said:


> Very doubtful IMO. There just isn’t the infrastructure to support them and unlikely to ever be so. To make them viable you pretty much need a charge point for every car. Certainly more than one charge point per household at any rate.
> 
> Doing this will cost way too much.
> 
> Not too mention the vast numbers of people who don’t have off road parking. City streets lined with enough charge points for every parked car is again way too expensive. Plus they take up room that might not be available. And high voltage “super chargers” are potentially highly hazardous.
> 
> Talking of room and space. Towns and cities in the USA are all relatively young purpose built. But towns and cities across Europe are old and tend to have a lot less space and narrower roads. Huge limitations on places to put charge points.


Europe is moving toward charging in the parking space at home and at work, reclaiming petrol fueling stations and using the EV to store excess generated electricity by offering night time recharge incentives. 

There may not be more EVs on the road than ICE but the sales are expected to surpass them within ten years. Expect the residual value of most ICE vehicles to drop quickly around the same time.


*EV sales growing faster than expected*


Sales of electrified vehicles — particularly plug-in hybrids and full battery electrics — are growing faster than expected, according to a new study from Boston Consulting Group.

Electrified vehicles — which stand at about 8 percent of global sales — will account for a third of sales by 2025, according to a report released this month, up from the company's previously forecast one-fourth of sales.

EV sales are expected to surpass internal-combustion-engine vehicle sales by 2030, taking 51 percent of the market.

This uptick in sales comes as traditional and new automakers have more than 100 electric vehicle models in the pipeline over the next three years. Automakers have committed $300 billion to EV development and continue to invest in vehicle charging infrastructure.

Boston Consulting says the uptick also places more pressure on automakers, suppliers and government leaders to support electric vehicles.

Several factors

The boost in EV sales largely is the result of a drop in the total cost of EV ownership and the fact that EVs present the lowest-cost solution to meet industry regulatory standards, the company says.

Government incentives, tighter regulations of tailpipe emissions in several markets, growth of the charging infrastructure and falling EV battery prices also are significant factors in the increase, Xavier Mosquet, managing director and senior partner at the consulting company, told Automotive News.

"We're now using our most aggressive assumptions in terms of battery price decline, which means that somewhere between 2022 and 2023, there will be a time where for most consumers, it would be a reasonable choice to buy an EV because it will be cheaper overall," said Mosquet.

Differences and incentives

The sales mix of electrified vehicles — mild hybrid, full hybrid, plug-in hybrid and full battery-electric vehicles — will vary by market, depending fuel prices, electricity and charging prices and driving-distance averages, the company says.

Financial and nonfinancial incentives in China have made it the leading EV market. In the U.S., electric vehicle tax breaks are starting to wind down for some automakers.

The U.S. will be the slowest major market to electrify, Boston Consulting says, largely because of low gasoline prices and brisk demand for SUVs. Still, the U.S. won't be far behind Europe, Mosquet said, and holds an advantage in terms of charging infrastructure.

Mosquet said Toyota's and General Motors' backing of the Trump administration's efforts to rescind tougher fuel-efficiency standards — and any reductions in U.S. incentives — will minimally impact sales.

"If for any reason the federal government decided to stop the incentives, we'd be stuck in the middle because, between now and 2022, it will be hard to make a market.

"And so the car manufacturer would, in a way, be left on their own to sort of increase the price of gasoline cars and decrease the price of battery-electric vehicles." Mosquet said.

"By 2022, 2023, remember, it will be consumer-driven, so we won't need the incentives anymore."

Despite the optimistic forecast, he said, "The next three years are going to be challenging, and so if you're a car manufacturer or automotive supplier and you've invested in EV technology, you need to have a market and the consumer needs some support for the next three years."

https://www.autonews.com/mobility-report/ev-sales-growing-faster-expected

Sent from my LG-V520 using Tapatalk


----------



## greenpondmike

I was off topic


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

idleprocess said:


> The electrical grid is _everywhere_ in the industrial world. It's generally got surplus capacity - especially at night - and sees continuous growth.


And how is that directly relevant, you still need the actual CHARGE point, which costs thousands to install, be it £ or $.

There are no charge points in the village I live in and plenty of people without drive ways.......... and this really isn't uncommon, but the norm.


Try some simple maths:

273.6 million (number of cars in the USA) x $1500

That is an unbelievable amount of money.

And this totally ignores the fact that there is not yet a standardisation of plug types or tech that is going into charge points.




idleprocess said:


> A dryer outlet (typically 240V 30A) is basically all it takes to charge a vehicle overnight. Home 'charge points' are essentially serial comms, a current sensor, and a contactor to prevent the breaker from tripping if the vehicle draws too much. With some ingenuity one can even share the same circuit with a dryer (or other high-power/low duty cycle load) and stay within the limits of many an electrical panel.


Sorry, not sure what a dryer outlet is.

However charing some of the new EV cars off a regular home plug still takes way too long to be your only means of transport for the vast majority. And as said repeatedly, not everyone will have access to be able to plug an EV in at home anyway.



idleprocess said:


> EVs can't accommodate every use case for sure - least of all _emergency trumpet repair_ and the "gas station" concept of being able to fill from empty in <10 minutes is not likely to succeed. The present deployment model is indeed heavily dependent upon dedicated parking and ideally private garages; some can make due with the greater range of modern EV's and public fast charging. I've seen a few deployments that utilized the incumbent infrastructure for old lampposts with wiring optimized for incandescent lamps that have the margin for overnight EV charging.So are RV park hookups yet there's precious little hand-wringing over those.



RV parks I doubt are the same voltage as the fast charing superchargers that Tesla use. And the risk profile is completely different, as you are unlikely to have a road traffic accident in an RV park, but hugely likely to encounter them on public roads in busy areas. Even down to simple accidents such as reversing or driving into the charge point by mistake. The more charge points there are, the more risk there is of this happening.

And there are likely to be a lot more people in much closer proximity to the charge points than you'd get in an RV park.

Parking like this is quite common across the UK and many places in Europe. Where you can't even be guaranteed to park on the same street as your house, let alone outside it. The only way to make EV charing viable for locations like this would be to provide a charge point for every single car, taking up space on the footpath (side walk).









idleprocess said:


> More concerned about the thousands of gallons of volatile fuel stored at gas stations and the tens of gallons of it sloshing around in vehicle tanks on the move.


Petrol has proven to be relatively safe, hence why it is so widely used. Cars don't just explode when in a crash.




idleprocess said:


> Direct drive with a single reduction gear has been the model for pretty much all modern production EVs I'm aware of. Tesla's first Roadster prototypes were equipped with a 2-speed transmission whose main attributes were additional cost, complexity, weight, and _slower acceleration_.


Things may well change, gearing serves a purpose on vehicle depending on the specific needs. And sometimes it is beneficial to have more than one gear. For every setup there will be pros and cons.


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

adnj said:


> Europe is moving toward charging in the parking space at home and at work, reclaiming petrol fueling stations and using the EV to store excess generated electricity by offering night time recharge incentives.
> 
> There may not be more EVs on the road than ICE but the sales are expected to surpass them within ten years. Expect the residual value of most ICE vehicles to drop quickly around the same time.



Again this just isn't practical in the 'real' world. Lots and lots of people do not have parking at home. And parking at work is unlikely to ever have enough charge points for every car. Not too mention COVID has had a distinct shift of people working from home and not in offices. i.e. far less people parking in a works car park.

I've asked this a number of times over the years, and not once have seen anyone give an answer.

This is a very common type of residential street in the UK.

People park on the road in non allocated spaces. Household also on average probably have somewhere between 2 and 4 cars.

It is physically impossible to charge home, as you have no guarantee of even parking close to your home. And obviously you cannot run extension cables out across the path to your car. The only option is to offer enough charing points for every single car..






But that is a huge effort to install in every city, town, village and hamlet across the western world and beyond. And in many cases completely impractical and it will cost a fortune.

I'm sure EV charing infrastructure will grow, but it will take a huge amount of time to still fall short of be viable for everyone/the vast majority.


You are also saying charing at work. So this increases costs further, as you are saying for every car that parks on a street and in a works car park, you will need 2 charing points per vehicle to make it viable. Where is all this funding going to come from?

Again ignoring the fact that many works carparks don't even have enough space for all of their workers, so people end up parking all over the show. And filling a car park with charge points will also reduce the capacity of cars that can park in it.



Don't misunderstand me. I am NOT against EV's. I just do not see how they are viable as the only solution. And this is before you even get to discussing the vehicles themselves.

Which is probably why there are several big players looking at alternatives to EVs still.




adnj said:


> *EV sales growing faster than expected*


Not really.

EV sales are bolstered because of Government incentives on reduced pricing and other benefits, such as free parking, exemption from certain charges and free/low road tax.

Also some of the sales probably included in these figures are likely cop outs. I know in the UK the BMW 330e was hugely popular, because as a company car it cost the employee a lot less money in terms of tax than the comparable non 'e' model. And the vast majority are then just used as regular cars, not bothering to charge them up.

With out the tax incentive (i.e. more money in your pocket). They simply wouldn't not have sold on the merits of being an EV hybrid. 


However just because sales are up overall has no direct bearing on the limitations of the infrastructure and the simple fact that an EV just isn't a viable option for many many people.


Answer this:


- You have no charge point near your home, you have no off road parking/drive-way, there are no charing points at your place of work ---- How do you charge and run an EV?

- And how many people do you think might fit into said category?


----------



## orbital

+

Then you'll have Hybrid or Hydrogen Hybrid ect..
*
It is coming.

*Hydrogen internal 'combustion' racing will eventually take over.
FIA & other governing bodies are already leaning in that direction.
*
Hydrogen Hybrid, I feel is the future. 

*You use the electric early on in power delivery, then transition to the hydrogen engine once going. 
The understanding how to use both forms of power has been refined (thanks to racing)


----------



## turbodog

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Then you'll have Hybrid or Hydrogen Hybrid ect..
> *
> It is coming.
> 
> *Hydrogen internal 'combustion' racing will eventually take over.
> FIA & other governing bodies are already leaning in that direction.
> *
> Hydrogen Hybrid, I feel is the future.
> 
> *You use the electric early on in power delivery, then transition to the hydrogen engine once going.
> The understanding how to use both forms of power has been refined (thanks to racing)



I really question whether hydrogen will be used at all as it has a very unique, and dangerous, chemical property. It ignites in air at a HUGE range of concentrations. 

Most people don't know this... gasoline/propane/methane/etc only combust at a very narrow range of concentrations. The flammability limits of hydrogen in air are very wide, from 4% to 75%, and the detonation limits narrower, from 18.3% to 59% at atmospheric pressure. The limits are proportionately wider for a pure oxygen (4% to 90+%) atmosphere. The ignition temperature in air is very low, at 585°C, and the flame can reach a temperature of just over 2000°C.


I recommend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_safety


----------



## turbodog

Chicken Drumstick said:


> ...
> 
> I'm sure EV charing infrastructure will grow, but it will take a huge amount of time to still fall short of be viable for everyone/the vast majority.
> 
> ...



Yup. Even if all that was free... it would take a decade (wild guess) to actually install it.


----------



## orbital

+

It's easy to bang on about the dangers of lithium batteries, or the dangers of Li-Po batteries, or the dangers of nuclear power, or the dangers of Hydrogen, or the dangers of.................................................................................................................


*Anything* with potential energy/power can be looked at as being dangerous. Depends on who's writing/subsidizing it.


It's really easy to burn coal & oil, REALLY REALLY easy,, but that is finite.
50 years from now, things will be fundamentally different.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

orbital said:


> +
> 
> It's easy to bang on about the dangers of lithium batteries, or the dangers of Li-Po batteries, or the dangers of nuclear power, or the dangers of Hydrogen, or the dangers of.................................................................................................................
> 
> 
> *Anything* with potential energy/power can be looked at as being dangerous. Depends on who's writing/subsidizing it.
> 
> 
> It's really easy to burn coal & oil, REALLY REALLY easy,, but that is finite.
> 50 years from now, things will be fundamentally different.



Even wood pellets in a pellet stove can go bang if one is careless.


----------



## orbital

+

I'll add this so people don't get too confused,
would I love a big Cummins turbo diesel truck = absolutely


----------



## adnj

Chicken Drumstick said:


> Again this just isn't practical in the 'real' world. Lots and lots of people do not have parking at home. And parking at work is unlikely to ever have enough charge points for every car. Not too mention COVID has had a distinct shift of people working from home and not in offices. i.e. far less people parking in a works car park.
> 
> I've asked this a number of times over the years, and not once have seen anyone give an answer.
> 
> This is a very common type of residential street in the UK.
> 
> People park on the road in non allocated spaces. Household also on average probably have somewhere between 2 and 4 cars.
> 
> It is physically impossible to charge home, as you have no guarantee of even parking close to your home. And obviously you cannot run extension cables out across the path to your car. The only option is to offer enough charing points for every single car..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But that is a huge effort to install in every city, town, village and hamlet across the western world and beyond. And in many cases completely impractical and it will cost a fortune.
> 
> I'm sure EV charing infrastructure will grow, but it will take a huge amount of time to still fall short of be viable for everyone/the vast majority.
> 
> 
> You are also saying charing at work. So this increases costs further, as you are saying for every car that parks on a street and in a works car park, you will need 2 charing points per vehicle to make it viable. Where is all this funding going to come from?
> 
> Again ignoring the fact that many works carparks don't even have enough space for all of their workers, so people end up parking all over the show. And filling a car park with charge points will also reduce the capacity of cars that can park in it.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't misunderstand me. I am NOT against EV's. I just do not see how they are viable as the only solution. And this is before you even get to discussing the vehicles themselves.
> 
> Which is probably why there are several big players looking at alternatives to EVs still.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> EV sales are bolstered because of Government incentives on reduced pricing and other benefits, such as free parking, exemption from certain charges and free/low road tax.
> 
> Also some of the sales probably included in these figures are likely cop outs. I know in the UK the BMW 330e was hugely popular, because as a company car it cost the employee a lot less money in terms of tax than the comparable non 'e' model. And the vast majority are then just used as regular cars, not bothering to charge them up.
> 
> With out the tax incentive (i.e. more money in your pocket). They simply wouldn't not have sold on the merits of being an EV hybrid.
> 
> 
> However just because sales are up overall has no direct bearing on the limitations of the infrastructure and the simple fact that an EV just isn't a viable option for many many people.
> 
> 
> Answer this:
> 
> 
> - You have no charge point near your home, you have no off road parking/drive-way, there are no charing points at your place of work ---- How do you charge and run an EV?
> 
> - And how many people do you think might fit into said category?


Overnight at-home street parking in the EU and US is about 25% of all vehicles. Additionally, charge times for new battery technologies is targeted to match the refill time of ICE. 

There is a great amount of technological improvement to be had in fuel cell, battery and wireless charging technology. There will likely be hybrid EV for the use scenarios that seem to be your pain points but the economies of ICE complexity point to moving toward electrification.

---------

*Electric car batteries with five-minute charging times produced*

_Exclusive: first factory production means recharging could soon be as fast as filling up petrol or diesel vehicles_

Batteries capable of fully charging in five minutes have been produced in a factory for the first time, marking a significant step towards electric cars becoming as fast to charge as filling up petrol or diesel vehicles.

Electric vehicles are a vital part of action to tackle the climate crisis but running out of charge during a journey is a worry for drivers. The new lithium-ion batteries were developed by the Israeli company StoreDot and manufactured by Eve Energy in China on standard production lines.

StoreDot has already demonstrated its “extreme fast-charging” battery in phones, drones and scooters and the 1,000 batteries it has now produced are to showcase its technology to carmakers and other companies. Daimler, BP, Samsung and TDK have all invested in StoreDot, which has raised $130m to date and was named a Bloomberg New Energy Finance Pioneer in 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...es-race-ahead-with-five-minute-charging-times

Sent from my LG-V520 using Tapatalk


----------



## turbodog

orbital said:


> +
> 
> It's easy to bang on about the dangers of lithium batteries, or the dangers of Li-Po batteries, or the dangers of nuclear power, or the dangers of Hydrogen, or the dangers of.................................................................................................................
> 
> 
> *Anything* with potential energy/power can be looked at as being dangerous. Depends on who's writing/subsidizing it.
> 
> 
> It's really easy to burn coal & oil, REALLY REALLY easy,, but that is finite.
> 50 years from now, things will be fundamentally different.



I agree that things are dangerous that store concentrated energy. And we can find different alloys for lithium, etc to make it less dangerous. But we are not dealing with a Hydrogen compound. Elemental Hydrogen will always have these properties, full stop. Its ignition energy is 7% of that of natural gas.

It's got a few properties that are less dangerous than gasoline/nat gas/propane explosions, but it really is some nasty stuff overall for leaks & ignition. And REALLY long term... H2 leaks escape into space... never to be seen again. So if we crack water to make H2... we are sending precious water into space gradually.

Nuclear has to make a larger presence. Gates funded research into a reactor that can't meltdown and burns spent fuel from OTHER reactors/weapons. Nukes for base load and solar for daytime surges. Problem solved.


----------



## idleprocess

Chicken Drumstick said:


> And how is that directly relevant, you still need the actual CHARGE point, which costs thousands to install, be it £ or $.


A plug-in home charger can be had for <$300 that will push some ~19 miles range per hour for even the most inefficient EVs w/ 400 Wh/mile ratings, or ~29 miles range per hour for something like a Model 3 @ 257 Wh/mile rating. Unlike the EVs of 20 years ago that had significant electronics in the charger, these are pretty simple devices that add a layer of safety and convenience to attaching a large electrical load to the building's panel.

A public charger that offers >7kW charging and billing is another matter - those will cost appreciably more.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> And this totally ignores the fact that there is not yet a standardisation of plug types or tech that is going into charge points.


Not sure about Europe, but here in the US it's pretty much down to Tesla and J1772 with adapters are available for both.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> Sorry, not sure what a dryer outlet is.


Minimum 30A 240V dedicated circuit in the US. I imagine something analogous is available in most European dwellings.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> However charing some of the new EV cars off a regular home plug still takes way too long to be your only means of transport for the vast majority. And as said repeatedly, not everyone will have access to be able to plug an EV in at home anyway.


If you're in the business of emergency trumpet repair, an EV isn't for you. But a large majority of drivers are commuting far shorter round-trip distances than their vehicle's maximum range.

My commute in the _before times_ was 30 miles each way - long-ish even for the sprawling DFW area. But even with some random errands and excursions I'm rarely going to hit even 100 miles in a day - well within the envelope of both modern EV's with >200 miles range and overnight home charging @ 7kw.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> RV parks I doubt are the same voltage as the fast charing superchargers that Tesla use.


They don't. But they also lack the protection protocols baked into the Tesla and J1772 standards that won't energize the primary conductors until the handshake between vehicle and charger is complete.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> And the risk profile is completely different, as you are unlikely to have a road traffic accident in an RV park, but hugely likely to encounter them on public roads in busy areas. Even down to simple accidents such as reversing or driving into the charge point by mistake. The more charge points there are, the more risk there is of this happening.


Ground-level transformers present a similar risk and have been a thing for decades. They're generally located in stout housings, optionally with bollards around them. As a client device on the electrical network, high-power chargers will have breakers that throw when a fault is detected.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> Parking like this is quite common across the UK and many places in Europe. Where you can't even be guaranteed to park on the same street as your house, let alone outside it. The only way to make EV charing viable for locations like this would be to provide a charge point for every single car, taking up space on the footpath (side walk).


It's also common in the United States in older cities with row homes as well as no small percentage of multi-dwelling units that don't provide dedicated parking. EVs are not presently going to be very practical for those situations unless consistent charging access is available elsewhere - such as at work or convenient public charging. Solutions are likely to come about should EVs become more prevalent.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> Petrol has proven to be relatively safe, hence why it is so widely used. Cars don't just explode when in a crash.


Relatively safe, sure. But gasoline-powered cars burn down all the time and no one gets excited. Thanks to decades of safety engineering, the occupants tend to have ample time to escape in a crash severe enough to cause a fire for gasoline- and battery-powered vehicles alike.



Chicken Drumstick said:


> Things may well change, gearing serves a purpose on vehicle depending on the specific needs. And sometimes it is beneficial to have more than one gear. For every setup there will be pros and cons.


Electric motors have a far wider RPM range than reciprocating-piston engines, have relatively flat efficiency across said range, and generate peak torque when stalled. Not sure how many applications will spin up the motor past max RPM but still have power margin for additional gearing.


----------



## ledbetter

Nuclear has to make a larger presence. Gates funded research into a reactor that can't meltdown and burns spent fuel from OTHER reactors/weapons. Nukes for base load and solar for daytime surges. Problem solved.[/QUOTE]


“Midnight in Chernobyl” is definitely worth reading and I am pretty sick of the holier than thou EV drivers, especially here in California, because most electricity is still derived from natural gas and coal. And even if it’s not, the negatives of solar and wind on weather and animals is not negligible. There’s nothing green about energy.


----------



## turbodog

ledbetter said:


> “Midnight in Chernobyl” is definitely worth reading and I am pretty sick of the holier than thou EV drivers, especially here in California, because most electricity is still derived from natural gas and coal. And even if it’s not, the negatives of solar and wind on weather and animals is not negligible. There’s nothing green about energy.



Well, two things. First, I lied. I'm really a 100% nuke advocate with natural gas for peak load service. I just throw solar in there to not **** people off that are 'green'. Second, can't tell if you are for/against nukes... you clearly are not 100% behind solar/wind.


----------



## orbital

+


How does California even generate electricity, it's like their against everything, yet ***** when there are blackouts.

_We have a good twenty full size wind turbines maybe 10 miles to my west. They were put in around '01~'03 _


----------



## idleprocess

ledbetter said:


> “Midnight in Chernobyl” is definitely worth reading and I am pretty sick of the holier than thou EV drivers, especially here in California, because most electricity is still derived from natural gas and coal. And even if it’s not, the negatives of solar and wind on weather and animals is not negligible. There’s nothing green about energy.



Inherent to industrial society is damage to the environment in some shape or from. The realist perspective is not to zero this damage but to reduce it to a sustainable level.

The benefit of electric cars is a decoupling them from a specific fuel and reduction of point sources of air pollution. On a typical grid this does mean some displacement, however that displacement is to a more-efficient power station with better pollution controls and also not necessarily in a population center.


----------



## ledbetter

“How does California even generate electricity, it's like their against everything, yet ***** when there are blackouts.”

Which part of stupid to address first? The homonym typo? I live near a liquid propane power station cooled by the ocean. There are huge new solar farms owned by DWP in Mojave and the wind turbines near Palm Springs have permanently changed weather patterns. Other info I’m sure is googlable. 

Faith in nuclear has been corroded to the point where it’s a non starter politically though I’m sure it’s much improved since its heyday. Midnight in Chernobyl is a worthwhile cautionary tale for any generation and for any new energy that is said to be a solution to all our problems. DDT is an excellent insecticide. Asbestos is an excellent insulation.


----------



## orbital

+

ledbetter, maybe adjust your dosage.


----------



## nbp

Let’s keep on the topic of Cars. If you want a general thread about green energy, nuclear power and fossil fuels, feel free to start one. Thanks.


----------



## raggie33

cant they build magnetic chargers in the parking lots?


----------



## jabe1

raggie33 said:


> cant they build magnetic chargers in the parking lots?



Magnetic chargers can’t carry the necessary amperage.
This basically comes down to how badly do we want to change. 
Most of us are more comfortable with the status quo, even when we know it is the worst option long term.
For those who think that EVs aren’t fun, take a dual motor model 3 for a drive. Then look into EV conversions.


----------



## raggie33

i have a buddy who builds hot rods he and others have to take the hotrods to the track on trailers lol. but most get beat by teslas who drive to the track and back home after racing. if i hit lotto im geting a ev hummer and tesla !😀


----------



## adnj

raggie33 said:


> cant they build magnetic chargers in the parking lots?


Current proposals include adding magnetic chargers in parking lots and on the curbside in cities and suburbs as a way to generate revenue for the local government or property owners. Or, it may be given away like Wifi at the coffeeshop.

In the cities, these would replace parking meters. 

Current magnetic chargers are around 3.2kw and provide 12 miles of range per hour. There is currently quite a bit of research on improving the power transfer limit in the next few years. The current standard, SAE J2954, includes charging specifications up to 11kw or 35 miles of range per hour.

It might finally do something about people taking up two spaces in the parking lot, too. 












https://www.greencarreports.com/new...e-standard-will-harmonize-systems-up-to-11-kw


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

orbital said:


> It's really easy to burn coal & oil, REALLY REALLY easy,, but that is finite.
> 50 years from now, things will be fundamentally different.


To some extent, the natural supply of such fuels is certainly limited. However there are bio and synthetic fuel options out there that are far more easily renewable.


----------



## Chicken Drumstick

adnj said:


> Overnight at-home street parking in the EU and US is about 25% of all vehicles. Additionally, charge times for new battery technologies is targeted to match the refill time of ICE.
> 
> There is a great amount of technological improvement to be had in fuel cell, battery and wireless charging technology. There will likely be hybrid EV for the use scenarios that seem to be your pain points but the economies of ICE complexity point to moving toward electrification.
> 
> ---------
> 
> *Electric car batteries with five-minute charging times produced*
> 
> _Exclusive: first factory production means recharging could soon be as fast as filling up petrol or diesel vehicles_
> 
> Batteries capable of fully charging in five minutes have been produced in a factory for the first time, marking a significant step towards electric cars becoming as fast to charge as filling up petrol or diesel vehicles.
> 
> Electric vehicles are a vital part of action to tackle the climate crisis but running out of charge during a journey is a worry for drivers. The new lithium-ion batteries were developed by the Israeli company StoreDot and manufactured by Eve Energy in China on standard production lines.
> 
> StoreDot has already demonstrated its “extreme fast-charging” battery in phones, drones and scooters and the 1,000 batteries it has now produced are to showcase its technology to carmakers and other companies. Daimler, BP, Samsung and TDK have all invested in StoreDot, which has raised $130m to date and was named a Bloomberg New Energy Finance Pioneer in 2020.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/environ...es-race-ahead-with-five-minute-charging-times
> 
> Sent from my LG-V520 using Tapatalk


Interesting. Although I'd assume charge times are also related to capacity. Charging a smaller battery quicker requires far less source energy.


So I suppose it goes back to infrastructure again, could you really support 1000's of vehicle fast charging a large battery pack at the same time?


----------



## adnj

Chicken Drumstick said:


> Interesting. Although I'd assume charge times are also related to capacity. Charging a smaller battery quicker requires far less source energy.
> 
> 
> So I suppose it goes back to infrastructure again, could you really support 1000's of vehicle fast charging a large battery pack at the same time?



To fully charge? Yes. 

EV's charging infrastructure requirements are not trivial and being reviewed and planned by many utilities. It is viewed by some utilities as a means to actually improve the electrical grid while recouping investment. 

----------

Tom Baker, managing director and partner with Boston Consulting Group (BCG), told POWER: “We expect that a representative U.S. utility [with two to three million customers and baseline electricity sales of about 40,000 GWh], with 1.1 million EVs in service by 2030 [roughly 15% of all vehicles in such a utility’s service area], would need to invest between $1,700 and $5,800 in grid upgrades per electric vehicle (EV) through 2030. Differences in customer charging patterns, or the degree to which charging happens when and where the grid is constrained, drive the range of grid upgrades needed.

“E-mobility will increase the demand for both energy and grid capacity, but we expect the impact to be larger on grid capacity than on energy,” Baker said. “Assuming 15–20% of all vehicles in a representative utility’s service area are EVs by 2030, and that the utility is somewhat successful at optimizing when and where EVs are charged, we expect a 5–10% increase in energy demand but a 25–33% increase in demand for grid capacity. The actual increases for a specific utility will depend on local EV penetration, the extent to which EV charging happens when or where the grid is already constrained, and the mix of charging infrastructure installed.”

...

Itai Dadon, global head of Smart Cities for Itron, a technology company serving the energy industry, told POWER that utilities “are generally prepared to support the extra load from EVs on the grid. They are proactively taking steps to develop charging infrastructure and are also investing in hardening the grid to support supply and distribution needed. However, the ultimate vision is to incorporate EVs as DERs [distributed energy resources] in a highly dynamic smart grid environment. This will require additional investment in advanced grid orchestration. There is also room for improvement for utilities to improve the customer experience around EV programs. This includes new pricing programs to incentivize customers to charge during times and at specific locations that are ideal for the grid operators.”

https://www.powermag.com/driving-change-on-the-grid-the-impact-of-ev-adoption/





Sent from my LG-V520 using Tapatalk


----------



## idleprocess

adnj said:


> Additionally, charge times for new battery technologies is targeted to match the refill time of ICE.


While the batteries themselves may be eventually capable of routine 5-10 minute recharge times without substantial degradation, the instantaneous power requirements to do this will be _staggering_. 

Say we want to recharge a 100kWh pack from 0-100% in five minutes. Simple math suggests that this will require 1.2 megawatts of power. But the charging process isn't 100% efficient so at optimistic 95% efficiency even more power is needed to the tune of 1.26 MW - and that 5% loss means 63kW of waste heat to manage. A more realistic 80% charge drops the numbers slightly to 1.011MW and 51kW of waste heat. And these are of course simple average numbers that don't account for the variable power delivery to the battery pack depending on state of charge - at the lower end of the charge peak power will be higher in order to hit target charge duration.

Tesla's super chargers are more like 80% over 30 minutes, which for a 100kWH pack would mean 168kW gross power and at 95% efficiency 8.4kW of waste heat.



adnj said:


> wireless charging technology


... is a great way to add cost, complexity, and inefficiency to the charging process at the scale of an EV. ~50% efficiency is acceptable for convenience charging a cellphone when the gross power consumption is 10W, less so when you're squandering kilowatts.



adnj said:


> There will likely be hybrid EV


The Chevrolet Volt was probably the best attempt at a broad market PHEV and it was _less than a banner success_. While one can certainly criticize GM for radically redesigning the vehicle in the middle of the development process _(to optimize efficiency of the *engine* when the battery was depleted)_ and argue that it was but a first stab at the concept, serving two very different masters in a vehicle design introduces a number of compromises. Commercial vehicles are apt to have fewer packaging challenges than a passenger car but the added cost and complexity of two systems are still present.


----------



## adnj

idleprocess said:


> While the batteries themselves may be eventually capable of routine 5-10 minute recharge times without substantial degradation, the instantaneous power requirements to do this will be _staggering_.
> 
> Say we want to recharge a 100kWh pack from 0-100% in five minutes. Simple math suggests that this will require 1.2 megawatts of power. But the charging process isn't 100% efficient so at optimistic 95% efficiency even more power is needed to the tune of 1.26 MW - and that 5% loss means 63kW of waste heat to manage. A more realistic 80% charge drops the numbers slightly to 1.011MW and 51kW of waste heat. And these are of course simple average numbers that don't account for the variable power delivery to the battery pack depending on state of charge - at the lower end of the charge peak power will be higher in order to hit target charge duration.
> 
> Tesla's super chargers are more like 80% over 30 minutes, which for a 100kWH pack would mean 168kW gross power and at 95% efficiency 8.4kW of waste heat.
> 
> 
> ... is a great way to add cost, complexity, and inefficiency to the charging process at the scale of an EV. ~50% efficiency is acceptable for convenience charging a cellphone when the gross power consumption is 10W, less so when you're squandering kilowatts.
> 
> 
> The Chevrolet Volt was probably the best attempt at a broad market PHEV and it was _less than a banner success_. While one can certainly criticize GM for radically redesigning the vehicle in the middle of the development process _(to optimize efficiency of the *engine* when the battery was depleted)_ and argue that it was but a first stab at the concept, serving two very different masters in a vehicle design introduces a number of compromises. Commercial vehicles are apt to have fewer packaging challenges than a passenger car but the added cost and complexity of two systems are still present.


You will likely see a move in hybrid EV to more or less standardized, smaller, more efficient fuel-burning engines that are inherently less expensive to manufacture. Hybrid EV will continue to suffer from a cost penalty compared to plug-in EV while offering flexibility that will appeal so those buyers that make that choice.

Electrical grid and generation capacity are not sufficient in most locations but the option of micro-generation exists and utilities are reviewing grid and generation requirements for EV (take a look at the link in the preceding post). You can take your pick of the fuels down to the homeowner level.

Current automotive inductive charger standards are 94% efficient at 11kw with an air gap of 10 inches. Higher charge currents at similar efficiencies are reached by reducing the air gap - I don't recall the charge current to air gap curve.

Sent from my LG-V520 using Tapatalk


----------



## raggie33

we used to have a cool guy on this forum id guess he had the first eletric car. i.miss him havenot seeen him.in a decade or so


----------



## greenpondmike

I like the cars y'all first started talking about at the beginning. I apologize if I offended anyone.


----------



## idleprocess

adnj said:


> You will likely see a move in hybrid EV to more or less standardized, smaller, more efficient fuel-burning engines that are inherently less expensive to manufacture. Hybrid EV will continue to suffer from a cost penalty compared to plug-in EV while offering flexibility that will appeal so those buyers that make that choice.


Insofar as a reasonable PHEV's go, The BMW i3 REx lives on, however it's inflicted with a baffling _compliance-driven_ artificial gas tank limitation and resale value retention that suffers from borderline hyper_*deflation*_. There are other models of PHEV, but they're either clearly conventional cars with a motor/generator bolted onto the conventional ICE drivetrain and whatever minuscule battery pack could be shoehorned into the remaining volume/mass envelope or conventional hybrids with beefier battery packs.

I'm not aware of any development efforts in the pipeline for PHEV passenger vehicles with substantial range. A startup company - Workhorse - appears to have dropped their plans for the W15 PHEV pickup truck.



adnj said:


> Electrical grid and generation capacity are not sufficient in most locations but the option of micro-generation exists and utilities are reviewing grid and generation requirements for EV (take a look at the link in the preceding post). You can take your pick of the fuels down to the homeowner level.


The electrical grid adds capacity - both in terms of generation and distribution - continuously. The hand-wringing over _home-charging_ EVs is baffling - no one worries about a new subdivision going in or installing a large multi-dwelling complex where there once stood something that consumes markedly less power. EVs will not replace any huge percentage of ICEs overnight thus this growth can be planned for like any other growth in demand.

Fast-charging at "gas pump" speeds isn't likely to happen for the reasons I mentioned above. Even if the instantaneous power demand can be gotten around - the local grid can handle that kind of power delivery, some means is devised to reduce the load down to average vis-à-vis some local buffer, or local generation capacity is available _(ironically most likely via a natural gas-powered generator)_ - the expense is going to be far greater than the fueling station model is likely to sustain.

If Tesla's Supercharger experience is anything to go by, ~40 minutes to recharge 80% is acceptable.



adnj said:


> Current automotive inductive charger standards are 94% efficient at 11kw with an air gap of 10 inches. Higher charge currents at similar efficiencies are reached by reducing the air gap - I don't recall the charge current to air gap curve.


Better than what I was reading about 5+ years ago where it was something closer to 75%, but that's a lot of cost and complexity _just to avoid plugging in_.


----------



## idleprocess

greenpondmike said:


> changes are happening at an alarming rate.


No matter how old you are, this has been true for your entire life.


----------



## greenpondmike

idleprocess said:


> No matter how old you are, this has been true for your entire life.



So true my friend, but I didn't like it then and I sure enough don't like it now.


----------



## Empath

nbp said:


> Let’s keep on the topic of Cars. If you want a general thread about green energy, nuclear power and fossil fuels, feel free to start one. Thanks.



One would think the words of a moderator would be honored for the wisdom, not to mention the ability to bring about the fulfillment pf the recommendations.

A casual browsing of the thread, as it was before the topic changed, will reveal conclusively the purpose and theme of this thread.

My recommendation that the off-topic subject be taken elsewhere, should be taken soon.


----------



## turbodog

Here, this should help.


----------



## jtr1962

Empath said:


> One would think the words of a moderator would be honored for the wisdom, not to mention the ability to bring about the fulfillment pf the recommendations.
> 
> A casual browsing of the thread, as it was before the topic changed, will reveal conclusively the purpose and theme of this thread.
> 
> My recommendation that the off-topic subject be taken elsewhere, should be taken soon.


Before anyone does that again (i.e. I see one attempt at it was already shut down) exactly what subjects would such a thread be allowed to discuss? I don't feel like writing long, detailed replies only to have everything I wrote gone, as was just the case in that new thread.


----------



## jtr1962

idleprocess said:


> Better than what I was reading about 5+ years ago where it was something closer to 75%, but that's a lot of cost and complexity _just to avoid plugging in_.


The real value of inductive charging is the ability to recharge while in motion, not while stationary, where I agree it's a lot of waste just to avoid connecting a plug. If we can get it to work reasonably well, envision charging strips every 10 miles along highways, negating the need for batteries with hundreds of miles of range. This saves weight, and makes the range issue nearly moot.


----------



## orbital

+
Globally, the automobile industry is going electric.
It's impossible to talk about cars & the industry change, without talking about how to get electrons into those vehicles.

Personally I don't like it, but accept it.

I'm a huge motorsports fan,* a fantastic engine note*, one that raises the hair on the back of your neck,* is everything*.
_stand eight feet behind a mid layout 5.2L V10 race motor, with basically just headers out the back, as it starts up._


----------



## nbp

jtr1962 said:


> Before anyone does that again (i.e. I see one attempt at it was already shut down) exactly what subjects would such a thread be allowed to discuss? I don't feel like writing long, detailed replies only to have everything I wrote gone, as was just the case in that new thread.



I hadn’t seen that one until you mentioned it. Reviewing that post, it was a very specifically political angle on it. I think if you stick to the actual science of fuels and energy you’d be just fine. There used to be a CPF Green forum, but as that is no longer active, the Cafe is probably the place for it. If one wants to talk about the political ramifications of oil, that is for the UG. I think that’s fair, right?


----------



## orbital

turbodog said:


> Here, this should help.



+

I'v been around several original Shelby Cobras & met Carroll at Road America,,,,

*did you!!!1!!?$$$$$*


----------



## jtr1962

nbp said:


> I hadn’t seen that one until you mentioned it. Reviewing that post, it was a very specifically political angle on it. I think if you stick to the actual science of fuels and energy you’d be just fine. There used to be a CPF Green forum, but as that is no longer active, the Cafe is probably the place for it. If one wants to talk about the political ramifications of oil, that is for the UG. I think that’s fair, right?


Well, I noted the political angle of the original post but I specifically avoided it in my reply. I'd much prefer to stick to the technical aspects anyway. It's much more interesting.


----------



## jtr1962

orbital said:


> +
> Globally, the automobile industry is going electric.
> It's impossible to talk about cars & the industry change, without talking about how to get electrons into those vehicles.


Yep. EVs are poised to reach price parity with ICEs by 2024 or 2025. After that they'll actually cost less. TCO is already less, even with the current higher purchase price.



> Personally I don't like it, but accept it.


I like it personally. Much less noise, no exhaust fumes, far less maintenance. In a big city especially those are all huge pluses.


----------



## nbp

jtr1962 said:


> Well, I noted the political angle of the original post but I specifically avoided it in my reply. I'd much prefer to stick to the technical aspects anyway. It's much more interesting.



No reply is visible - it must have been locked while you were composing. In any case, you are a long timer here and know how it works so I’m sure your posts would be on topic. Feel free to start an appropriate thread if you like.


----------



## jtr1962

nbp said:


> No reply is visible - it must have been locked while you were composing. In any case, you are a long timer here and know how it works so I’m sure your posts would be on topic. Feel free to start an appropriate thread if you like.


Yeah, that's what it looks like happened. I tried posting after the thread was already locked. I'll consider started a thread discussing this subject purely on its technical merits.


----------



## idleprocess

jtr1962 said:


> The real value of inductive charging is the ability to recharge while in motion, not while stationary, where I agree it's a lot of waste just to avoid connecting a plug. If we can get it to work reasonably well, envision charging strips every 10 miles along highways, negating the need for batteries with hundreds of miles of range. This saves weight, and makes the range issue nearly moot.



I get the feeling that the expense of installing such zones will be distinctly _uneconomic_. Spacing out charging stations every ~2 hours along major corridors like Tesla has been doing with their supercharger network - and other charging networks are also doing - seems to be satisfying the needs of EV owners to occasionally travel long distances.

EDIT: Also, the EVs of ~20 years ago had such limited range envelopes that _genuinely limited their appeal_. While a 400 _highway_ mile range is probably an excessive goal for a commuter vehicle using today's li-ion technology, the >200 mile range being offered by most manufacturers these days seems to not only cover the overwhelming majority of use cases but also allows for occasional long-distance travel, albeit at a slower pace than ICE vehicles.


----------



## orbital

+

turbodog, I got out of bed to write this,,
In my post quoting your picture, when I said 'did you' what I was saying/meaning was _'did you get one' _because Cobras are more than just historic.

hope that makes sense


----------



## greenpondmike

Empath said:


> One would think the words of a moderator would be honored for the wisdom, not to mention the ability to bring about the fulfillment pf the recommendations. A casual browsing of the thread, as it was before the topic changed, will reveal conclusively the purpose and theme of this thread.My recommendation that the off-topic subject be taken elsewhere, should be taken soon.


Yes Sir. I already did that. I apologize.


----------



## greenpondmike

raggie33 said:


> we used to have a cool guy on this forum id guess he had the first eletric car. i.miss him havenot seeen him.in a decade or so



That's a long time raggie33. Was his car a volt?


----------



## jtr1962

idleprocess said:


> I get the feeling that the expense of installing such zones will be distinctly _uneconomic_. Spacing out charging stations every ~2 hours along major corridors like Tesla has been doing with their supercharger network - and other charging networks are also doing - seems to be satisfying the needs of EV owners to occasionally travel long distances.
> 
> EDIT: Also, the EVs of ~20 years ago had such limited range envelopes that _genuinely limited their appeal_. While a 400 _highway_ mile range is probably an excessive goal for a commuter vehicle using today's li-ion technology, the >200 mile range being offered by most manufacturers these days seems to not only cover the overwhelming majority of use cases but also allows for occasional long-distance travel, albeit at a slower pace than ICE vehicles.


I agree that a 200+ mile range is probably the sweet spot for making a vehicle useful for 99% of trips most people do on a single charge. Those who do lots of long-distance trips could always opt for 400 or 500 mile range, and fast chargers if they exceed that. Then again, I've long felt a car isn't a great type of vehicle to do long-distance trips in. It's not particularly comfortable. You need to stop for bathroom breaks. You need to drive it yourself, precluding you from doing anything else. And it's not very fast, only 1/3 the speed of high-speed trains. Given all that, 200+ mile range covers most users just fine.

Given how poorly people are at predicting the economics of any new technology, it's hard to say if my idea of charging zones would if fact be uneconomic. If the cost of implementing it came down dramatically it might in fact be viable. Or not.


----------



## turbodog

orbital said:


> +
> 
> turbodog, I got out of bed to write this,,
> In my post quoting your picture, when I said 'did you' what I was saying/meaning was _'did you get one' _because Cobras are more than just historic.
> 
> hope that makes sense



I was ready to buy the car in question... checked it out, test drove it, had cashier's check, etc. Brakes were less than expected so I got scared off. Looks like they needed either pad deglazing, pad replacement with different compound, or possibly master cylinder adjustment.

Now that I've had time to think about it... if my shoulder does NOT require surgery (bone spur versus severe sprain), I will be picking up the phone and seeing if it is still available.


----------



## turbodog

greenpondmike said:


> That's a long time raggie33. Was his car a volt?



2 cars: volt and electric (from the factory) ford ranger.


----------



## greenpondmike

Thanks Turbodog. I didn't know Ford had an electric ranger.


----------



## turbodog

greenpondmike said:


> Thanks Turbodog. I didn't know Ford had an electric ranger.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV


----------



## orbital

turbodog said:


> I was ready to buy the car in question... checked it out, test drove it, had cashier's check, etc. Brakes were less than expected so I got scared off. Looks like they needed either pad deglazing, pad replacement with different compound, or possibly master cylinder adjustment.
> 
> Now that I've had time to think about it... if my shoulder does NOT require surgery (bone spur versus severe sprain), I will be picking up the phone and seeing if it is still available.



+

An Uncle of mine has a Cobra _kit car_ he got at a local auction, I'm sure it's a blast to drive, surprisingly haven't seen him drive it.

________________________________________________________

I never mentioned this in this thread, or anywhere, I have a '74 Triumph TR6 in French Blue. It has 24K on the clock, it's completely original except for a stainless exhaust & an electronic ignition.
the engine note from that straight 6 & the stainless exhaust is something to behold at around 4,000 rpms'

Sadly it hasn't been driven in a couple years since it needs a complete brake system overhaul. It sits covered.

Maybe I'll talk about my Fathers racing later...


----------



## greenpondmike

Thanks again. I just read it. Not bad- I kinda liked it.


----------



## turbodog

orbital said:


> +
> 
> An Uncle of mine has a Cobra _kit car_ he got at ...



This one is a kit. Originals are, shall we say, a little pricey.

The photo was taken at the mfg in Alabama. It is a turnkey, so the fit & finish is far above most self-assembled kits. It's been sitting, waiting for pickup by the original owner, for *27 years*. They drive it a couple of times a year to keep it up... has about 3k miles on it.


----------



## orbital

turbodog said:


> This one is a kit. Originals are, shall we say, a little pricey.
> 
> The photo was taken at the mfg in Alabama. It is a turnkey, so the fit & finish is far above most self-assembled kits. It's been sitting, waiting for pickup by the original owner, for *27 years*. They drive it a couple of times a year to keep it up... has about 3k miles on it.



+

_*Super sharp looking.*_

What's the engine?


----------



## turbodog

orbital said:


> +
> 
> _*Super sharp looking.*_
> 
> What's the engine?



stroked 351 by southern automotive... nice builder in Georgia
ford toploader
jag IRS


----------



## orbital

+

You know, you'll kick yourself if you don't pull the trigger.

Blast out in the country, going through the gears, feeling the motor, connecting with the machine...


----------



## turbodog

orbital said:


> +
> 
> You know, you'll kick yourself if you don't pull the trigger.
> 
> Blast out in the country, going through the gears, feeling the motor, connecting with the machine...



I know, but I'm taking heat... already have one convertible roadster. 2nd one is a tougher sell.


----------



## orbital

+

Yamaha is making a high performance electric motor that's about the size of a motorcycle engine,,
and produces over 450hp (remember, electric motors give torque/horsepower instantly)

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a36107079/yamaha-ev-motor/


Put *2* of them in a midsize 4wd suv & I'm there.:twothumbs


----------



## Monocrom

More power, always a good thing. (Except in people.)


----------



## lightknot

turbodog said:


> I know, but I'm taking heat... already have one convertible roadster. 2nd one is a tougher sell.



Get that Cobra!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## orbital

+

A few years ago, I posted that the future of car shape will be a sedan with a hatch back (or 5-door hatch/SUV kinda thing)
..although not the first manufacturer to do this shape, seeing this Ford, I immediately thought *'that's it'


*https://www.autoweek.com/news/a36197170/ford-evos-

however it's being powered, this is the new car shape,, bid farewell to the trunk.


----------



## bykfixer

Looks like a Honda CrossTour.


----------



## raggie33

I'm still shocked we still make cars that burn gas or diesel. Eve are way more simple


----------



## idleprocess

bykfixer said:


> Looks like a Honda CrossTour.



“You do not realize that crossover was the only vehicle to survive the segment wars. Now all vehicles are crossovers."


----------



## orbital

+

20 years ago, Porsche was delivering the Cayenne, people screamed bloody murder/outright heresy.

They were years ahead of the curve.


----------



## idleprocess

orbital said:


> the Cayenne



I'm just like _nice Touareg_ whenever I see one.


----------



## orbital

idleprocess said:


> I'm just like _nice Touareg_ whenever I see one.



+

My brother ended up just getting his Touareg TDi fixed properly and kept it. 
More than once, when I was getting a new car, asked if he would sell. He always said no.

I drove it pulling his boat, {_the whole setup probably weighed as much as pulling a car} _couldn't even tell you were pulling anything.
Tons of torque, good diesel mileage.


----------



## orbital

+

Porsche has always been about racing, plain & simple.
_*Porsche Mission R *_

How about a 900V system to the tune of 340KW charging or_ 340,000 Watts of charging._

...it's all about voltage folks.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Porsche has always been about racing, plain & simple.
> _*Porsche Mission R *_
> 
> How about a 900V system to the tune of 340KW charging or_ 340,000 Watts of charging._
> 
> ...it's all about voltage folks.




Voltage is ..... well, voltage. I think I'm gunna miss the sound of exhaust.


----------



## orbital

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Voltage is ..... well, voltage...


+

Not really, more voltage requires far less Amps to do the work.* This is absolutely key in anything.*
> everything stays cooler when you push less Amps.

_There will always be some sort of hybrid racing cars, just with smaller displacement internal combustion engines,, 
like a inline 3-cylinder turbo, you'd be surprised how good a straight 3 sounds in race trim_.

Although not turbo, listen to a current Moto2 race bike : example


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Pay me no mind, just an old man's mumblings after a couple of gin & tonics. 😋 

I love the advancements.


----------



## SCEMan

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Voltage is ..... well, voltage. I think I'm gunna miss the sound of exhaust.


I "hear" you. The sound of a "hairy" solid lifter V8 idling was the music of youth...


----------



## raggie33

i hate loud unless its heavy metal music


----------



## orbital

raggie33 said:


> i hate loud unless its heavy metal music


+

I'd only do this for you raggie, don't hurt yourself on this jam


----------



## raggie33

orbital said:


> +
> 
> I'd only do this for you raggie, don't hurt yourself on this jam



when i was in school we didnt have walkmans so id put a cassete player in my back pack turn it on low witj head on backpack listening to iron maiden in class. till one day i forgot it was on high. boy did i get in trouble lol


----------



## orbital

+

Three cylinder turbos will be the go-to engine with all the hybrids coming.

Toyota says, how about a _just petro _ inline 3 with 300hp'sauce








The 2023 Toyota GR Corolla Is a 300-HP Three-Cylinder Hot Hatch


Arriving later this year, the Toyota GR Corolla is 300 hp of AWD fury.




www.autoweek.com


----------



## knucklegary

I once owned a 3 cyl Saab, 2 cycle, Ran just like a chain saw, i had to pour tiny can of mix oil into gas tank during fill-ups. It got about 45mpg til it blew up


----------



## bykfixer

My wife's car has what Ford calls eco-boost. Three squirrels who get a powerhit of crack when you want to pass somebody.
It's a 1.5 litre (3 cylinder) with twin turbos making it able to produce about 180hp, which is plenty for her style of driving needs. It has an auto off button that turns the car off at red lights when there isn't much load on the alternator. Release the brake pedal and it restarts. In the city that helps mpg a little at a time.
The engine is coupled to a 6 gear tranny so it does not labor to get up to interstate speed like the days of yor when 3 gear automatics made lack of accelaration downright dangerous at times. Time will tell how well it holds up.


----------



## turbodog

knucklegary said:


> I once owned a 3 cyl Saab, 2 cycle, Ran just like a chain saw, i had to pour tiny can of mix oil into gas tank during fill-ups. It got about 45mpg til it blew up



I think that engine would run in reverse actually.


----------



## turbodog

bykfixer said:


> My wife's car has what Ford calls eco-boost. Three squirrels who get a powerhit of crack when you want to pass somebody.
> It's a 1.5 litre (3 cylinder) with twin turbos making it able to produce about 180hp, which is plenty for her style of driving needs. It has an auto off button that turns the car off at red lights when there isn't much load on the alternator. Release the brake pedal and it restarts. In the city that helps mpg a little at a time.
> The engine is coupled to a 6 gear tranny so it does not labor to get up to interstate speed like the days of yor when 3 gear automatics made lack of accelaration downright dangerous at times. Time will tell how well it holds up.



The stop/start models have a different material on the bearings to cope with the _high_ number of start cycles.


----------



## knucklegary

turbodog said:


> I think that engine would run in reverse actually.


I'm not sure which import throw away cars were the funniest. I also owned a 1960 Citroen 2CV. The whole entire "soft" top rolled back. Living at the ocean that car body rust was so severe it actually cracked damn near in half when i intensionally took it off-road and hit a buried log on the beach. A fun car to drive during the summer as it attracted the girls.. Definitely a classic today (-;


----------



## turbodog

I was serious about the engine. Get rolling forward, kill the engine, shift to reverse, release clutch, 2 stroke engine will run backwards. Not well, but can work.


----------



## knucklegary

Mine threw a rod through the crankcase moving forward


----------



## turbodog

knucklegary said:


> Mine threw a rod through the crankcase moving forward



You still have 2 good ones left.


----------



## orbital

+
*Not yo daddys caddy*
Taking orders NOW!*









First Images: Cadillac GTP Hypercar for 2023 IMSA, WEC, 24 Hours of Le Mans


The car will compete in IMSA GTP class, which is replacing the current DPi.




www.autoweek.com





_btw: the 2022 24 Hours of Le Mans is going on right now_
_______________________________________________________________=
* for internationally acclaimed motorsport teams only, sorry


----------



## orbital

+

Encouraging news that a manufacturer has the stones to keep developing turbo diesels,, in the ev hysteria times.
(obviously not including trucks..)

gotta dig straight 6 engines









Mazda Is Building a Six-Cylinder Turbodiesel


Mazda’s 3.3-liter e-Skyactiv D is scheduled for the CX-60.




www.autoweek.com


----------



## raggie33

i love mazda had a 626 i loved it today id love a mazda hatch back as i age i start to prefere basic stuff no thrills just dependable


----------



## knucklegary

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Encouraging news that a manufacturer has the stones to keep developing turbo diesels,, in the ev hysteria times.
> (obviously not including trucks..)
> 
> gotta dig straight 6 engines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mazda Is Building a Six-Cylinder Turbodiesel
> 
> 
> Mazda’s 3.3-liter e-Skyactiv D is scheduled for the CX-60.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.autoweek.com


Straight Sixes are torquey.. Kudos to Mazda!


----------



## Monocrom

raggie33 said:


> i love mazda had a 626 i loved it today id love a mazda hatch back as i age i start to prefere basic stuff no thrills just dependable


My Mazda 6, V6, sSport has been going strong for over a decade. Only very recently had to replace the alternator. Unfortunately, Mazda very recently decided to take on Full-blown Luxury models at the lower end of *that* segment. If you want a no-frills hatch-back, your best bet is going to be taking a serious look at the Chevy Spark. Perhaps the Chevy Sonic.


----------



## Monocrom

knucklegary said:


> Straight Sixes are torquey.. Kudos to Mazda!


Yup, plenty of torque on tap. No turbo lag.


----------



## raggie33

id love a hatch big enough to sleep in .im a small guy so i can fit most places .


----------



## Monocrom

raggie33 said:


> id love a hatch big enough to sleep in .im a small guy so i can fit most places .


KIA Soul with the rear seats folded down. Tall roof-line. But a good friend of mine absolutely swears by his. Avoid the turbo-charged model. Base model might be ideal in terms of not too many gizmos as standard in the car.


----------



## chip100t

raggie33 said:


> id love a hatch big enough to sleep in .im a small guy so i can fit most places .


I have always liked estate cars, I think you call them station wagons. BMW and Volvos especially. My car an old nissan SUV had 7 seats when I bought it. I took out the rear row and the middle row are folded up tight against the back of the front seats for maximum boot space, with just the two front seats in use.

Lots of people are buying panel vans these days and converting them themselves as camper vans are so expensive to buy.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

chip100t said:


> I have always liked estate cars, I think you call them station wagons. BMW and Volvos especially. My car an old nissan SUV had 7 seats when I bought it. I took out the rear row and the middle row are folded up tight against the back of the front seats for maximum boot space, with just the two front seats in use.
> 
> Lots of people are buying panel vans these days and converting them themselves as camper vans are so expensive to buy.


 
How many pairs of boots do you need to transport?


----------



## bykfixer

Apparently all of them


----------



## orbital

+

If you open the boot on a 911 in the UK, you'll see a flat6

_... little room for even socks in there * hehehe





*_


----------



## knucklegary

What country is that 4S license plate from? I like the crossed flags, half way to race finish (;
Changing plugs in a Porche takes patience, skill, and professional assortment of sockets and flexible extensions


----------



## chip100t

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> How many pairs of boots do you need to transport?


We call the trunk the boot, the fenders wings and the hood the bonnet.

I used to put my mountain bike in it and head to a forest trails.


----------



## knucklegary

^ I remember a neighbor owned a British racing green TR3. The car had very cool windscreen and side wind wings


----------



## raggie33

i like station wagons


----------



## Launch Mini

I've got a 992, so when I open the boot, I can't see a darn thing except 2 caps for liquid refills.

Cars ( or trucks) don't need to be expensive to enjoy. Well I guess expensive is a fluid term. Mini 3dr and Toyota Gr86's are great cars for the price point.
May not have the same 0-60, or top end of some of my other toys, but the bang for the buck is far greater with those 2.
I do drive mine year round, winter tyres go on in the fall and unless the snow is too deep, I will be driving it.


----------



## louie

Some people now use the term, "frunk" for a front trunk, but I have not seen froot or fronnet especially in the U.S.

A series of car thieves forced my hand last year, totalling my 94 Integra. A VW Golf GTI was available, quite different but so far, acceptable.


----------



## bykfixer

Launch Mini said:


> Cars ( or trucks) don't need to be expensive to enjoy. Well I guess expensive is a fluid term. Mini 3dr and Toyota Gr86's are great cars for the price point.
> May not have the same 0-60, or top end of some of my other toys, but the bang for the buck is far greater with those 2.
> I do drive mine year round, winter tyres go on in the fall and unless the snow is too deep, I will be driving it.


I had a 66 mustang with a straight 6, automatic tranny, no power nothing, that would go 0-60 eventually but man that car was fun to drive out in the country side. 
While people in America pay top dollar for the more powerful versions that little bucket of bolts can be bought for not much money if you can still find one.


----------



## Launch Mini

Our neighbour has one in his garage. Very nice car and he's looking at selling it, so I may take a look at it. My wife's great aunt had one she bought new and had promised to my wife, but of course a conman managed to talk her into selling it for next to nothing


----------



## Monocrom

Been working the Graveyard shift at the client's site for 10 years now. Every single morning my commute takes me past a decent 2-story home on the corner with a completely rusted out balcony. Ground level, always the weird Infiniti I guess it's technically an SUV. Couple of other modern-day vehicles parked next to it. In the same spot as always though is a vintage Mustang Fastback that needs a lot of tender loving care. It's in horrendous shape! It would literally look appropriate in a junkyard! Not even exaggerating. In the 10 years I drive past it on a daily basis, the owner has replaced the grill. That is literally it!

I honestly hope that someone sees it one day from that little-used side road, leaves a note on it offering to buy it, and restores it to its glory days. Honestly, it's a damn shame the condition it's in. Hasn't moved from that spot in literally a decade.


----------



## knucklegary

I had similar situation.. Down the street from my daily route I drove by a '73 Mach 1.. Two tone, Baby Blue/Black, It sat under eucalyptus trees covered with a old torn up canvas tarp. I could make out the Stang silhouette it had the rear spoiler and stock wheels, i knew exactly what it was.. So, I stopped one day on a Saturday, knocked on door to ask about it. Turns out the car belonged to women. A bitter women who got her husbands car in a divorce. I didn't have to ask about details.. She told me the car will sit and rot until hell freezes over.


----------



## bykfixer

My oldest brother (rip) had a buddy who owned a white Shelby GT350 that sat in his yard for decades. No cover or anything. He refused to sell it to anybody for the longest time until one day a guy showed up with a stack of $100 bils about 6" high. He sold it to that guy on the spot.

Now shortly before my first marriage ended I had bought a 66 Mustang coupe with a hi-po 289, factory ac and a bunch of other goodies. After it began to sit a lot I sold it to a woman who said she had one just like it but had sold it when she got pregnant. She said her divorce had just finalized so she wanted her car back but bought mine since hers was long gone. Last I heard she had crashed it and sold it for parts. I'd never want that one back but would not mind another stripped down one like the first one I had. It was so easy to work on and had very few things that break. It had 1 vacuum hose. One.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

A friend of mine rents a storage shed for his business. Every time he'd go there he observed a car covered by a tarp. The car hadn't moved for a decade. Finally, one day, he saw the owner and struck up a conversation. When the man declined to sell my friend the car, assuring him he was one day going to find the money to restore the car, my friend told him - "You know if you took it to a local restoration shop and offered to pay them the same amount you've been paying to park it here, it would probably be finished by now. 

The next week the car was gone.


----------



## raggie33

im weird i even like mini vans. i want my car to be a home just incase


----------



## chip100t

We did not have muscle cars in the uk.
But 45 years ago when I was a little boy my mum drove one of these. The one pictured is not hers, but it could be . It was identical, same colour and everything.

To me it was just the best car in the world with the long doors and even longer bonnet, complete with bulge. I could not have loved it more if it was a Ferrari.

My mum was a single mum and my brother and sisters were much older so i spent a lot of time riding shotgun with my mum behind the wheel.












Ford Capri - The Story Of The European Pony Car @ Top Speed


the ford capri was europe's pony car long before the mustang went global, and it has an interesting history.




www.google.co.uk


----------



## knucklegary

There were a few Ford Capri in my area. I remember a fella had a 70's modified Capri race car he hauled on a trailer to Autocross meets. It was a perfect size car for that.


----------



## knucklegary

I think the original Morris Minor "Woody" is one of the coolest little cars to come out of Britain. 
Back during that time there was a MG Sprite motor conversion that not only made them faster but more reliable. The only problem was stopping.. With tiny drum brakes, drivers and passenger had to carry change of knickers (-;


----------



## Monocrom

raggie33 said:


> im weird i even like mini vans. i want my car to be a home just incase


Sounds like an Econoline van, converted with a bed and a few other touches would be ideal for you. GM makes them too. You should check out "Van Life" videos on YouTube to get some ideas about the type of conversions others have done. Ironically in that department, you're not that weird at all.


----------



## Monocrom

knucklegary said:


> I think the original Morris Minor "Woody" is one of the coolest little cars to come out of Britain.
> Back during that time there was a MG Sprite motor conversion that not only made them faster but more reliable. The only problem was stopping.. With tiny drum brakes, drivers and passenger had to carry change of knickers (-;
> View attachment 29778


There is the Chrysler PT Cruiser with the Morris Minor Traveller paneling. Not the same in terms of function. But if you want the looks....


----------



## orbital

+

EV porn, I mean Porsche


----------



## KITROBASKIN

166 miles per hour in the last straight. Fascinating to see the brake/throttle indicators and the course path. 

$90,000 worth of electric beautiful cutting edge extreme.

What kind of record was that? electric series production vehicle? Are there other machines that can go faster on that course?


----------



## orbital

KITROBASKIN said:


> ..
> 
> What kind of record was that? electric series production vehicle? Are there other machines that can go faster on that course?


+

Yes & yes
Hybrid prototype race cars with alot of aero, will go far faster.

*Porsche 919 Hybrid* has the outright record on Nurburgring Nordschleife
It has technology that makes f1 nervous. The car unfortunately is no longer raced.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Yes & yes
> Hybrid prototype race cars with alot of aero, will go far faster.
> 
> *Porsche 919 Hybrid* has the outright record on Nurburgring Nordschleife
> It has technology that makes f1 nervous. The car unfortunately is no longer raced.
> 
> View attachment 30802


These hybrid race cars, they are liquid fuel and electric?


----------



## orbital

KITROBASKIN said:


> These hybrid race cars, they are liquid fuel and electric?


+

New as of this year; the FIA Hypercar class LMDh, can be literally anything you want in power as long as it's 500 kW (670 hp) or less.
Can be hybrid electric (liquid fuel), ICE only, flux capacitor,, whatever.

That sounds underpowered, but they weigh very little & that's everything.


----------



## raggie33

im still hopeing i can swing the chevy volt. i want the most basic car they make. that i can depend on.. and i want a 5 speed


----------



## raggie33

omg check out this sweet ride https://www.hyundai.com/worldwide/en/eco/ioniq6/technology


----------



## Monocrom

Keep in mind, the infrastructure for such vehicles doesn't exist in America. Gas stations common as dirt. Fill up and go in less than 5 minutes. Can't do that with electric vehicles.


----------



## raggie33

it will improve


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Cadillac has entered the EV market and has done so in a spectacular way!


----------



## idleprocess

Monocrom said:


> Keep in mind, the infrastructure for such vehicles doesn't exist in America.


Most homes in America already have - or can have - one of the most important pieces of EV infrastructure: the 14-50 outlet capable of providing hundreds of miles of range overnight or a multiple of what most people drive daily. This isn't of as much use to apartment dwellers, but given that EV manufacturers are _supply constrained_ being limited to the mere ⅔ of Americans that live in single-family detached homes - nearly all of which have off-street parking - isn't exactly a stumbling block.



Monocrom said:


> Gas stations common as dirt. Fill up and go in less than 5 minutes. Can't do that with electric vehicles.


While not as common as gas stations, public EV L2 / fast chargers are becoming widespread.

Chargepoint
Electrify America
Volta
EVGO
Tesla
Other smaller players such as Blink, Francis Energy, Greenslots
Heck I live in one of the regional capitals of _truckistan_ and there are two Volta stations at the nearby grocery store.

Fast charging is indeed more than a 5-minute affair, but for most EV drivers it's either something they do occasionally when road-tripping or running long errands so that 20-30 minutes to recover 60-80% isn't a serious imposition.


----------



## knucklegary

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> View attachment 30906
> 
> 
> Cadillac has entered the EV market and has done so in a spectacular way!


$90,000 MSRP is not intended for the masses


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

knucklegary said:


> $90,000 MSRP is not intended for the masses


 
I thought that is was going to be around $65,000 .... still not intended for the masses. But considerably less than its Tesla competition.


----------



## knucklegary

Yep, $65k is beginning package.. but you're correct what a beauty!

Around SJ that's all I see are Tesla's


----------



## Monocrom

idleprocess said:


> Most homes in America already have - or can have - one of the most important pieces of EV infrastructure: the 14-50 outlet capable of providing hundreds of miles of range overnight or a multiple of what most people drive daily. This isn't of as much use to apartment dwellers, but given that EV manufacturers are _supply constrained_ being limited to the mere ⅔ of Americans that live in single-family detached homes - nearly all of which have off-street parking - isn't exactly a stumbling block.
> 
> 
> While not as common as gas stations, public EV L2 / fast chargers are becoming widespread.
> 
> Chargepoint
> Electrify America
> Volta
> EVGO
> Tesla
> Other smaller players such as Blink, Francis Energy, Greenslots
> Heck I live in one of the regional capitals of _truckistan_ and there are two Volta stations at the nearby grocery store.
> 
> Fast charging is indeed more than a 5-minute affair, but for most EV drivers it's either something they do occasionally when road-tripping or running long errands so that 20-30 minutes to recover 60-80% isn't a serious imposition.


The problem with home charging is that you have to remember each day to plug it in. That's a hassle. Forget one day.... That's going to be a very embarrassing phone call to work. _"Hi boss. I won't be coming in today. The reason?...."_ (Not everyone can bum rides off of family members and friends each time they forget. And to this day, public transportation in most parts of America is an absolute joke.)

Another issue, sometimes the car just won't charge up. I've looked into this. No one is 100% sure why it happens. It happens with home charging, it's even worse with Charging Stations. The charging aspect itself isn't actually reliable. (Of course those making EV vehicles to sell will never admit that.) 

As far as the infrastructure, goes it's still not close to where it needs to be. Yes, it's being set up in quite a few places. But as of right now, not even remotely close to competing with the sheer number of gas stations out there. Especially in more remote areas. 

Also, not just the number. Those charging stations absolutely *need* actual fast chargers. There are a tiny number of charging stations in the UK that are 700. But even there, those are alarmingly rare! Very few charging stations there also. And what they do have in place, less than 10% are truly fast charging stations. 

America needs charging stations as plentiful as gas stations are now. And, those charging stations need to be done properly. What's being put in place initially isn't going to cut it. Gas stations, in and out in literally less than 5 minutes; easily! Charging stations? Sit and wait in your vehicle for half an hour. Get an up to 80% charge at best, and hope that the particular one you pulled up will even charge at all. I'm sorry, that's not good enough. People will never embrace a new way of doing something, on a mass scale, if it's significantly less convenient than the old way of doing things that they are used to.


----------



## Monocrom

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I thought that is was going to be around $65,000 .... still not intended for the masses. But considerably less than its Tesla competition.


Well, with EV vehicles you need to take advantage of government grants and programs that lower the cost of such vehicles to consumers. That way they actually become affordable to Middle-class families.


----------



## aznsx

idleprocess said:


> Most homes in America already have - or can have - one of the most important pieces of EV infrastructure: the 14-50 outlet capable of providing hundreds of miles of range overnight or a multiple of what most people drive daily. This isn't of as much use to apartment dwellers, but given that EV manufacturers are _supply constrained_ being limited to the mere ⅔ of Americans that live in single-family detached homes - nearly all of which have off-street parking - isn't exactly a stumbling block.



My question is: Even given the affordable Model T, how long would have been required for the automobile to effectively completely replace the horse for personal transportation if 1/3 of the population had been completely unable to utilize them? (Never mind the fact that the horse couldn't come close to matching the automobile functionally, whereas the ICE auto is a at least a match for an EV's capabilities in most respects.)

My answer is: Don't start capping off any oil wells just yet y'all. Without a place to plug it in, there IS no option, and that shouldn't be expected to change for that 1/3 any time soon - supply constraints and other factors aside. All's well and fine for the other 2/3 if they choose to go that route, but gasoline stations aren't going anywhere in my lifetime, nor likely that of people born today!

Edit: The only 'issue' I have with EVs is my working to make money to pay higher taxes to subsidize those who can use them through incentives to artificially advance their progress when I can't use them.


----------



## idleprocess

Monocrom said:


> The problem with home charging is that you have to remember each day to plug it in.
> [...]
> Another issue, sometimes the car just won't charge up.


ICE vehicles have similar problems, albeit "won't charge" is instead "won't start". But ICE vehicles are old hat as is excuses about failing to refuel or maintain them; so too will be forgetting to charge them or random failures to start/charge.

Much like how the transition from flip phones to smart phones taught the userbase some painful lessons about the need to recharge every night, new EV drivers may well have the embarrassment of forgetting to charge them at a critical juncture.



Monocrom said:


> But as of right now, not even remotely close to competing with the sheer number of gas stations out there.
> [...]
> Those charging stations absolutely *need* actual fast chargers.
> [...]
> America needs charging stations as plentiful as gas stations are now.


"Slow" L2 charging at home - or for some at work - is how a strong majority of EV owners are powering their vehicles today, *full stop*:


> The answer was clear: despite the installation of extensive public charging infrastructure in most of the project areas, the majority of charging was done at home and work. About half the project participants charged at home almost exclusively. Of those who charged away from home, the vast majority favored three or fewer away-from-home charging locations, and one or more of these locations was at work for some drivers.


_'The infrastructure'_ is ready as soon as you have a 14-50 outlet and EVSE installed. Park the car, plug it in, done - and can schedule it to start charging in the middle of the night when power is cheaper since you're not going to routinely need a full charge.

Thus the use case for fast charging will be road trips and contingency usage when running extended errands. Thus we'll need them, but not at parity with gasoline pumps.



Monocrom said:


> Get an up to 80% charge at best, and hope that the particular one you pulled up will even charge at all. I'm sorry, that's not good enough.


Given that pretty much every EV on the market has route planning that's aware of the availability - and usually _status_ - of charging stations along the way it's rather difficult to stuff up a road trip.



Monocrom said:


> People will never embrace a new way of doing something, on a mass scale, if it's significantly less convenient than the old way of doing things that they are used to.


Park vehicle at home, plug it in, and never worry about having to make a trip just to get fuel ever again - seems pretty convenient to me. And with 800V architectures coming into play that 30 minutes to 80% is less than 20 minutes at a 350kW CCS charger.



aznsx said:


> My question is: Even given the affordable Model T, how long would have been required for the automobile to effectively completely replace the horse for personal transportation if 1/3 of the population had been completely unable to utilize them?


While not quite the question you're asking - and I have no idea why you're asking it of me - according to _Scientific American_ it took *one decade* for the automobile to replace horses as the 'standard' from of transportation.



aznsx said:


> My answer is: Don't start capping off any oil wells just yet y'all. Without a place to plug it in, there IS no option, and that shouldn't be expected to change for that 1/3 any time soon - supply constraints and other factors aside. All's well and fine for the other 2/3 if they choose to go that route, but gasoline stations aren't going anywhere in my lifetime, nor likely that of people born today!


I find this even more confusing. I'm not advocating _policy positions _in the bit you quoted - simply pointing out that the average home has the capacity to support an L2 charger that will provide more than enough power over a reasonable interval to recharge a vehicle for the typical person's daily travels.

I do find the argument that _the infrastructure isn't ready_ hinges on the assumption that drivers treat EVs like ICE vehicles - drive by the filling station to refill the electricity tank - which as noted in the Idaho National Laboratory publication above isn't the case. I've also noted that EV uptake will be slower than .gov press releases, policies, regulations, and legislation would like due to production bottlenecks.

I've also gone to some lengths to mention that there are roles EVs simply _cannot_ slot into. Driving long distances for a living will be a problem - even with DC fast chargers. Freight - or the proverbial horse trailer - over long distances will be an even greater problem. There might be solutions to these issues in the future, but they're far enough away and sufficiently uncertain that they can't be planned on just yet.


----------



## aznsx

idleprocess said:


> While not quite the question you're asking - and I have no idea why you're asking it of me - according to _Scientific American_ it took *one decade* for the automobile to replace horses as the 'standard' from of transportation.


Sorry, as I lack good skills (and great experience, as evident from my post count) using this system, and I clearly caused myself to be misunderstood. I will attempt to rectify that. 

The portion of your post which I quoted was for the SOLE purpose of using the "2/3" figure you referenced, and then speak to the position of the remaining 1/3, of which I am personally a part (and you likely are not). I only intended to reference your number, and should have made that clear. I posed what was intended to be an open rhetorical question (not posed to you personally at all), then provided my own response to that question (with no other intended implications to anything else you stated, and in fact without actually even answering it myself, but only expanding on the impact [or lack thereof] of all this on that '1/3' of the population). Evidently I should have just quoted the portion referencing the '2/3' number anonymously, but since you provided that number, I wanted to use it and didn't think that would be polite (nor could I verify the accuracy of the number myself).

Nothing I was trying to convey related in any other way to any of your other statements, nor was I expressing disagreement with anything you stated. My ONLY intended point was (and is) that for my '1/3' of the population, the lack of charging capability at our residence, which is not likely to change significantly anytime soon, IS a major impediment to penetration of EVs into the general population / marketplace, and thus will delay the demise of fossil fuel personal transportation far beyond what those who are proponents of its demise realize, and far beyond the time required for the car to 'replace' the horse.

Hope that clarifies my post, and please advise if it fails to do so, and hopefully my skills using this system will improve!


----------



## idleprocess

aznsx said:


> Sorry, as I lack good skills (and great experience, as evident from my post count) using this system, and I clearly caused myself to be misunderstood. I will attempt to rectify that.
> 
> The portion of your post which I quoted was for the SOLE purpose of using the "2/3" figure you referenced, and then speak to the position of the remaining 1/3, of which I am personally a part (and you likely are not). I only intended to reference your number, and should have made that clear. I posed what was intended to be an open rhetorical question (not posed to you personally at all), then provided my own response to that question (with no other intended implications to anything else you stated, and in fact without actually even answering it myself, but only expanding on the impact [or lack thereof] of all this on that '1/3' of the population). Evidently I should have just quoted the portion referencing the '2/3' number anonymously, but since you provided that number, I wanted to use it and didn't think that would be polite (nor could I verify the accuracy of the number myself).



And I might have been moving too quickly responding to multiple posts.

Insofar as my two thirds estimate, the Census speaks to this - albeit indirectly - under the housing section with 64.4% living in owner-occupied housing units. Some of this will break down to condos without private off-street parking, but no small slice of rentals are single-family detached homes with private off-street parking so two thirds is a reasonable approximation.

I can't speak to every situation for the proverbial "other third" of the population, but here are some that are outside of my general "two thirds" assumption:

*Apartment residents *
*With off-street parking* : I see _tentative_ steps to address this being made by landlords in the DFW area who are installing small numbers of L2 chargers (generally 6-10kW) on their properties. I imagine that over time these deployments will expand to include some number of chargers in private spaces that residents can rent and/or 14-50 outlets in resident garages so they can plug in their own EVSE (EV charger)
*Without off-street parking* : This is the tougher nut to crack. Presently this demographic uses fast charging or plays pot luck with any L2 charging within tolerable walking distance of their home or work. Better/more widespread public L2 charging infrastructure is apt to be the solution, but the pricing has to be reasonable.

*House renters* : Assuming these have almost-universal off-street private parking and intend to stay in the house for long enough, make arrangements with the landlord to install a 14-50 outlet and supply one's own EVSE
*Rural residents*
*Non-Agricultural* : People like my parents - who live ~10 miles from the closest town, ~20 miles from the closest small city, ~60 miles from the regional population center - and do not have to perform any of the hauling associated with agriculture could easily opt for an EV if they chose. They'll make more demands of the ~200 mile range that's fairly standard nowadays and will may choose to use public charging during treks to population centers 50 miles away where 30 minutes on even an L2 charger can add some useful range buffer. This is of course going to be distance-sensitive as well as depending on the availability of public charging in adjacent towns and cities.
*Agricultural* : This is a very tough nut to crack. EVs are not going to be a good fit for someone that has to transport the considerable mass livestock or feed long distances on the highway. But it's also a small slice of the population with 10.3% employed in agriculture, a very large percentage of which will be employees who commute to work rather than our prototypical image of the small farmer/rancher living an hour or more from a population center who must haul livestock trailers across the state. I expect that the ICE will continue for this group for decades to come.

There might be some other situations that I've missed - feel free to chime in.



aznsx said:


> Nothing I was trying to convey related in any other way to any of your other statements, nor was I expressing disagreement with anything you stated. My ONLY intended point was (and is) that for my '1/3' of the population, the lack of charging capability at our residence, which is not likely to change significantly anytime soon, IS a major impediment to penetration of EVs into the general population / marketplace, and thus will delay the demise of fossil fuel personal transportation far beyond what those who are proponents of its demise realize, and far beyond the time required for the car to 'replace' the horse.


What obstacle(s) to EV charging do you see that I've not mentioned?

Also realize that the '2/3 demographic' I mention is _more market than the automakers can address_ for the next ~decade due to supply bottlenecks. The low-hanging fruit is and will remain the '2/3 demographic' for some time. Mandates, phaseouts, tax policy will crash against this reality; the ICE will remain ubiquitous for some time to come.

_(edit: formatting)_


----------



## bykfixer

What's ubiguitous?


----------



## hsa

Ubiquitous= It's everywhere, it's everywhere. !


----------



## Monocrom

idleprocess said:


> ICE vehicles have similar problems, albeit "won't charge" is instead "won't start". But ICE vehicles are old hat as is excuses about failing to refuel or maintain them; so too will be forgetting to charge them or random failures to start/charge.
> 
> Much like how the transition from flip phones to smart phones taught the userbase some painful lessons about the need to recharge every night, new EV drivers may well have the embarrassment of forgetting to charge them at a critical juncture.
> 
> 
> "Slow" L2 charging at home - or for some at work - is how a strong majority of EV owners are powering their vehicles today, *full stop*:
> 
> _'The infrastructure'_ is ready as soon as you have a 14-50 outlet and EVSE installed. Park the car, plug it in, done - and can schedule it to start charging in the middle of the night when power is cheaper since you're not going to routinely need a full charge.
> 
> Thus the use case for fast charging will be road trips and contingency usage when running extended errands. Thus we'll need them, but not at parity with gasoline pumps.
> 
> 
> Given that pretty much every EV on the market has route planning that's aware of the availability - and usually _status_ - of charging stations along the way it's rather difficult to stuff up a road trip.
> 
> 
> Park vehicle at home, plug it in, and never worry about having to make a trip just to get fuel ever again - seems pretty convenient to me. And with 800V architectures coming into play that 30 minutes to 80% is less than 20 minutes at a 350kW CCS charger.


Owned my current Mazda 6 sSport trim V6 for almost 14 years now. Bought her brand new. Maintained her service schedule all these years. For the first time, just 2 months ago, I put the key in; she refused to start. Needed a new alternator. With that one exception, she's been completely reliable. I'm sorry, but when I can come home from work, exhausted; simply park in my garaged spot and not do anything else while knowing my vehicle will start each time I put the key in the ignition.... That is a helluva lot more reliable than plugging in an EV, and maybe it'll charge but maybe it won't. This is a serious issue. It's not something that can be dismissed by pointing out a very minor issue with gasoline powered cars that have been well-maintained.

Yes, L2 charging is how they're doing it NOW. But we're talking about those who are enthusiastic about driving EV vehicles, today. Those individuals are not the mass of society whom in the future might be forced to buy EV or hybrid vehicles years from now, due to a variety of reasons. Some legit, some artificially created. (For example: A certain European nation where the price of fuel has been disgustingly, artificially inflated by its politicians to over $12.oo a gallon. Reason? They want their citizens to buy EV vehicles, and are thus forcing them to do so. And it's working. I don't think Americans would stand for such disgusting levels of corruption. But we both know politicians would try it.) The masses want fast and convenient. They want both. They can't get that now. And again, you can't just ignore the 1/3 of the population who can't simply plug in an EV.

I'm sorry but I can't agree. The infrastructure is not there. I know people, with houses, who have bought EVs only to re-sell them months later. The charging isn't 100% reliable. Not even close. When they looked for more advanced charging stations away from their homes, they either couldn't find them or they weren't close to their homes or work. When they went to regular charging stations, having to wait half an hour compared to less than 5 minutes at a gas station, and again assuming the station's chargers will even work.... It became too much for them. Plus, slow home charging leaves 1/3 of the population out in the lurch. That's not a properly set up infrastructure. Not even remotely. You can't simply dismiss 1/3 of a nation's population and say, "We're good!"

Route planning is all well and good. Doesn't help if the nearest charging station won't charge up your EV, or if it's so far away that you'd have to either cancel your trip or rent a gasoline powered vehicle to know you'll get to your destination in a timely manner. Speaking of timely, less than 5 minutes is nothing. Half an hour, possibly longer to get a good charge is a different story. Especially half an hour each and every single time you have to stop on a long road trip. And, again, each time you stop; you never know if you'll get a charge out of that station or not. That's a headache and a hassle most folks don't want to deal with.

Sorry but again, as I've pointed out above, it's not as simple as park at home, plug in, wait, and you're ready to go in half an hour. The technology is too new, it's not reliable; yet. Same thing with Push-Button start on cars. It was released far too early. The most ridiculous things could cause the car not to recognize its own fob, and thus not start. Perfect example was a Nissan Murano on that canceled show, "Speeders." Obnoxious woman got pulled over, got a ticket, went to start her vehicle; wouldn't start. Left her stranded on a public street. All of a sudden she was sooo friendly when she asked the officer for help. He replied she should use her cell-phone to call a tow truck. No one here is Ron Popeil. You can just "Set it, and forget it" with an EV. Perhaps one day. That day is not today. Charging technology on EVs is unreliable. The tech is still too new.


----------



## knucklegary

Public libraries in CA are offering "free" ev charging. Residence is not a requirement. You don't need a library card. Any person who needs some juice can just stop and plug-in. There's absolutely no oversight or control..

A library worker said there's always a Prius in one of the four charger stations. I've seen the car before on weekdays, and weekends, it's always hooked up.. That person lives close enough to leave their car and walk home.

County taxes; I pay $25 yearly to library so anybody, tax payer or not, who drives an ev can charge for "free"

Welcome to California land of the Free!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Yes, please!


----------



## knucklegary

I'll take baby blue


----------



## Monocrom

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> View attachment 31000
> 
> 
> Yes, please!


Wishing Nissan had released that version before their merger with Renault. Let me guess, you get a traditional manual. And for the rest of us, a CVT automatic, from Jatco. The CVT that you'll be lucky to get 40,000 miles out of before it implodes and you need a new tranny.


----------



## idleprocess

Monocrom said:


> That is a helluva lot more reliable than plugging in an EV, and maybe it'll charge but maybe it won't. This is a serious issue.


Sure it's a serious issue if it happens to you. But so is your ICE car not starting - which is less likely to happen with maintenance, but even well-maintained vehicles malf on people without warning.

Other than your assertion that failure to charge is an endemic problem with EVs I've heard _quite the contrary_ about modern EVs from numerous owners. There were some problems with the EV's of _10-20_ years ago that could result in failure to charge:

The original NiMH RAV4EV of ~20 years ago had problems with balancing modules and would might refuse to charge; this was generally an issue at the end of the pack's life
The inductive chargers of ~20 years ago (original RAV4EV, GM EV1) often experienced component failure that would manifest as an increasing refusal to charge until the component expired
I recall that the AVCON/SAE J1772-1998 connector of >20 years ago was finnicky about maintaining continuous contact
The original Tesla Roadster was essentially an early beta product while early Model S's were late beta products - the Model S was sold with a customer NDA gagging reporting about defects as of 2016 and seemingly were still a thing as of 2016. That the customer base accepted the early buggy nature of the cars was nothing short of amazing since they spent _a lot_ of time in the shop; failure to charge was but one of many issues they experienced.



Monocrom said:


> Yes, L2 charging is how they're doing it NOW. But we're talking about those who are enthusiastic about driving EV vehicles, today.


The source I linked studied the first-generation Nissan Leaf which had an abysmal by present standards 25-30 kWh battery with optimistic _EPA_ ratings of between 73 and 107 miles; if ever there was a vehicle that would lean on public chargers the first-gen Leaf was it.

In 2022 there appear to be all of seven EV's being offered by OEMs on the US market with nominal EPA ranges of less than 200 miles; average looks to be closer to 250.



Monocrom said:


> Those individuals are not the mass of society whom in the future might be forced to buy EV or hybrid vehicles years from now, due to a variety of reasons.


Debates about politics are apt to get this thread closed and a bit off topic. There's an alternate venue for such topics if you prefer.



Monocrom said:


> And again, you can't just ignore the 1/3 of the population who can't simply plug in an EV.
> [...]
> Plus, slow home charging leaves 1/3 of the population out in the lurch. That's not a properly set up infrastructure. Not even remotely. You can't simply dismiss 1/3 of a nation's population and say, "We're good!"


This isn't my judgement so much as my assessment of the market. Market dynamics are heavily slanted towards the status quo of the present use case - urban/suburban residents of single-family detached homes - _because the automakers literally cannot make enough EVs to meet demand_. The domestic automakers are finding out what Tesla has known since the beginning - the demand comes to them without advertising and without demanding the incentives that juice conventional vehicle sales. This situation won't endure forever but for now it nets a decent amount of juice for minimal squeeze.

Thus for now, the userbase will likely heavily favor home (or work) L2 charging. Even apartment complexes here in truckistan _Dallas-Forth Worth_ are starting to offer L2 chargers for residents - either in dedicated rented spots or in shared EV parking spots.



Monocrom said:


> When they went to regular charging stations, having to wait half an hour compared to less than 5 minutes at a gas station, and again assuming the station's chargers will even work.... It became too much for them.


There are absolutely use cases where the 20-30 minutes to fast charge - and more frequently than refueling stops in an ICE won't work - I mentioned some in a previous post. The annual-ish summer road trip in an automobile might not make quite as many miles in an EV as an ICE vehicle, but the hit probably isn't debilitating - and the proverbial "5 minute pit stop" in my observation is lucky to be as brief as 15 minutes.

Public charger reliability can be a problem, however it's an evolving situation.


----------



## orbital

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Yes, please!


+
*No 8 Track available Chance__* although> I may know a guy, who knows a guy on a used *Mr. Microphone*_hehehehe_


Monocrom said:


> Wishing Nissan had released that version before their merger with Renault. Let me guess, you get a traditional manual. And for the rest of us, a CVT automatic, from Jatco. The CVT that you'll be lucky to get 40,000 miles out of before it implodes and you need a new tranny.



The new Z is 6 speed manual or 9 speed automatic.
straight up drivers car.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

orbital said:


> +
> *No 8 Track available Chance__* although> I may know a guy, who knows a guy on a used *Mr. Microphone*_hehehehe_
> 
> 
> The new Z is 6 speed manual or 9 speed automatic.
> straight up drivers car.


 
HA! Not a deal-breaker. Back in the day I was a cassette guy. 

Has anyone else noticed Jay Leno almost never throws the proverbial verbiage ball back to his guests? He has a habit of pretty much moving the conversation on down the road.


----------



## orbital

+

*Dodge Hornet*; smaller SUV, good performance
_hybrid powertrain that makes 285 hp and 383 lb-ft of torque._









The Dodge Hornet Brings Brand Back to Small Cars


The Hornet puts Dodge in one of the hottest segments with a hopped-up machine.




www.autoweek.com





*dig it *


----------



## Monocrom

idleprocess said:


> Sure it's a serious issue if it happens to you. But so is your ICE car not starting - which is less likely to happen with maintenance, but even well-maintained vehicles malf on people without warning.
> 
> Other than your assertion that failure to charge is an endemic problem with EVs I've heard _quite the contrary_ about modern EVs from numerous owners. There were some problems with the EV's of _10-20_ years ago that could result in failure to charge:
> 
> The original NiMH RAV4EV of ~20 years ago had problems with balancing modules and would might refuse to charge; this was generally an issue at the end of the pack's life
> The inductive chargers of ~20 years ago (original RAV4EV, GM EV1) often experienced component failure that would manifest as an increasing refusal to charge until the component expired
> I recall that the AVCON/SAE J1772-1998 connector of >20 years ago was finnicky about maintaining continuous contact
> The original Tesla Roadster was essentially an early beta product while early Model S's were late beta products - the Model S was sold with a customer NDA gagging reporting about defects as of 2016 and seemingly were still a thing as of 2016. That the customer base accepted the early buggy nature of the cars was nothing short of amazing since they spent _a lot_ of time in the shop; failure to charge was but one of many issues they experienced.
> 
> The source I linked studied the first-generation Nissan Leaf which had an abysmal by present standards 25-30 kWh battery with optimistic _EPA_ ratings of between 73 and 107 miles; if ever there was a vehicle that would lean on public chargers the first-gen Leaf was it.
> 
> In 2022 there appear to be all of seven EV's being offered by OEMs on the US market with nominal EPA ranges of less than 200 miles; average looks to be closer to 250.
> 
> 
> Debates about politics are apt to get this thread closed and a bit off topic. There's an alternate venue for such topics if you prefer.
> 
> 
> This isn't my judgement so much as my assessment of the market. Market dynamics are heavily slanted towards the status quo of the present use case - urban/suburban residents of single-family detached homes - _because the automakers literally cannot make enough EVs to meet demand_. The domestic automakers are finding out what Tesla has known since the beginning - the demand comes to them without advertising and without demanding the incentives that juice conventional vehicle sales. This situation won't endure forever but for now it nets a decent amount of juice for minimal squeeze.
> 
> Thus for now, the userbase will likely heavily favor home (or work) L2 charging. Even apartment complexes here in truckistan _Dallas-Forth Worth_ are starting to offer L2 chargers for residents - either in dedicated rented spots or in shared EV parking spots.
> 
> 
> There are absolutely use cases where the 20-30 minutes to fast charge - and more frequently than refueling stops in an ICE won't work - I mentioned some in a previous post. The annual-ish summer road trip in an automobile might not make quite as many miles in an EV as an ICE vehicle, but the hit probably isn't debilitating - and the proverbial "5 minute pit stop" in my observation is lucky to be as brief as 15 minutes.
> 
> Public charger reliability can be a problem, however it's an evolving situation.


Actually no, that's not how serious issues work. Not trying to open up THAT can of worms on CPF, again. But imagine if someone said the same thing about COVID. I've never been infected, myself. But I would never say, _"Well, I don't know why everyone took a bunch of precautions. I never got infected. So clearly it wasn't a serious issue at all." _Do you see the problem with that mentality? It just doesn't hold water. (Or, in this case, doesn't hold a charge.) 

As far as well-maintained gasoline powered vehicles go, I can only speak for the ones I've owned over the decades. A 1998 Ford Escort sedan bought 5 years used. And, a brand new 2009 Mazda 6 sSport trim V6. Both maintained by me. Both were reliable, with the exception of needing a new alternator for the Mazda which I mentioned earlier. But that one was on me. The old alternator was indeed very old. So, I messed up there. Not the car's fault. Thus, when properly maintained, I've had zero issues with the ones I've owned. Properly maintained gasoline powered cars don't just break down for no reason at all. 

I've done my research into EVs and charging technology. I've found numerous examples of charging issues. It's the biggest one out there. If that one, major issue didn't exist; I'd be here asking about the 2023 Chevy Bolt. Since that model is coming out with a significant price-drop compared to the 2022 version, and I'm seriously considering moving into a rented house. Sorry, but that's still a major issue for now.

I'm glad you brought up the issue of average range. I don't remember who said it many years ago, otherwise I'd give credit where it's due. But the gist is, EVs will not take over in America until Americans can replicate gasoline vehicle performance. Meaning, you head out on a road trip. The needle is dangerously close to "E." So you drive a few miles at most, pull into a gas station, fuel up, head out again in a very short amount of time. Run low on gas again, pull into a gas station, fuel up, head out. When you can do that with an EV at a charging station that doesn't require being there for half an hour. When you can do that without having to carefully plan or take an EVs average range into account, then the masses will switch over to EVs in droves. That outlook was over 10 years ago. EVs still aren't there. I do honestly believe that one day they will be. But it's not today, nor anytime in the very near future. 

No clue what you mean by politics. I simply brought up the corrupt way one foreign nation is forcing its citizens to buy EVs. That's more about corruption than politics. I haven't talked about party lines, Democrats vs. Republicans, or any of that sort of thing. 

People want to save money. Especially on gas for their cars. The market demand is coming due to that. Not necessarily a huge demand specifically for EVs. Right now, EVs (and to a lesser extent, hybrids) are the best alternative out there. Which is why a proper charging station infrastructure needs to be put in place. I read about an apartment resident on the outskirts of Chicago who put in a herculean effort to convince the building board to put in a charging station into one of the designated parking spots. The one assigned to him since he really wanted an EV. Eventually, they did it. And then raised his rates by 4x on that parking spot. So, every month he pays 4x more than literally all the other residents. But I'm sure he'll save money in the long run. But that brings up another issue we haven't tackled at all....

Clearly electric companies are going to jack up their rates when, eventually, a significant percentage of the population switches over to EVs. Obviously, there's a clear difference between renewable energy sources vs. non-renewable ones for automobiles. It will be interesting to see how high those rates become though. 

Can't speak for other drivers, but when I fuel up; yeah, we're talking less than 5 minutes. Gas stations in my neck of the woods when it comes to Snack Shops attached to them, are obscenely expensive! _How much for a bag of chips and a can of soda?! No thank you!_ Better to make a dedicated pit stop at almost anywhere else if you need anything other than gas. But still, even for those who do take 15 minutes instead of less than 5, that's still going to be half as long compared to 30. If anything, people are far more impatient now than just a few years ago. And, there's another issue. Highlighted perfectly in a YouTube video I saw made by, ironically; a young woman trying to convince her boyfriend that EVs are the way to go.

Used an App. to find a charging station. Problem is there was only one charger, and it was occupied by someone who let his vehicle get very low. They had to wait. So, now if there's someone ahead of you, you can add whatever amount of time they will be there, on top of the 30 minutes you'll need to charge up your ride. I'm sorry but that doesn't happen at gas stations. Less time to pump fuel, plus multiple pumps means no such headache. 

Honestly though, we agree that public charger reliability is evolving and getting to the point where it'll be as utterly reliable as charging up one's Smartphone. But for the Today Buyer of cars, it's an issue; now. In about two years I'll be getting a new car. I tend to keep my cars for over a decade. (Unless some genius who has no clue how to use a turn-signal totals my ride.) By the time I'm ready for a new car *after* this upcoming one in two years, I have no doubt that I'll be buying an EV. By then, everything will realistically be sorted out and genuinely ready for the masses. Just like Push-button Starters. Useless technological gimmick when they first came out. But now a genuine anti-theft feature that works properly. (It's why I bought an sSport trim Mazda 6 back in 2009. Out of three V6 trim levels available for that model back then, the sSport trim was the only one without a Push-button Starter.)


----------



## Monocrom

orbital said:


> The new Z is 6 speed manual or 9 speed automatic.
> straight up drivers car.


😯
Well....... Looks like even Nissan refuses to poison the new Z with their Jatco. *NICE!*


----------



## orbital

+

*Retro looks & really non retro power 










Climbing Behind the Wheel of a Hydrogen-Powered Fuel Cell Muscle Car


Hyundai’s N Vision 74 turns out 690 hp of asphalt-burning rear-drive fun—and makes a great argument for the technology’s place in an electric future.




www.autoweek.com






spoiler: hydrogen generator powering up battery banks for lots of Go'juice*


----------



## KITROBASKIN

The Mercedes-AMG One has set a new fastest lap for production cars at the Nürburgring, eclipsing the previous record by almost 10sec.
The 1049bhp hypercar posted a time of 6min 35.183sec around the 156-corner circuit, driven by Mercedes DTM driver Maro Engel on 28 October. This lap time also took the record for the super-sports car category. 
Dubbed a Formula 1 car for the road, the £2.2 million hypercar is the most potent Mercedes-AMG road car ever made, combining a modified version of the firm's turbocharged 1.6-litre V6 grand prix engine with four electric motors.









Mercedes-AMG ONE electrified hypercar sets Nurburgring production car record


The Mercedes-AMG ONE is the king of the Nürburgring-Nordschleife: with an officially measured and notarised time of 6:35.183 minutes for rounding the 20.832 kilometre track, the hypercar with Formu…



electriccarsreport.com


----------



## orbital

+

Looks like the electric C8 variant will be called the *E-Ray* (homage to the Sting Ray vette name)
Probably a V6 turbo from the Cadillac stables w/ electric motors powering the front wheels for an AWD vette.

Obviously this can & will change before sales, but a hybrid vette is coming.









The Chevrolet Corvette E-Ray Configurator Leaks


Chevrolet’s hybrid ‘Vette is barely a secret, but its configurator apparently went live—on accident.




www.autoweek.com


----------

