# Rival MaxaBlaster



## UNiT5 (Feb 3, 2014)

Ok so RA's Maxablaster is the King Of Handheld Throw.

With the Osram HBO 103 lamp and custom reflector, making it a top combination.

I was just thinking, lets say I wanted to build a maxablaster style thor mod with the exception of a more powerful lamp, achieving more throw. (i'm thinking get-lits production light is probably going to be something that i want to build in a more professional manner but the thrill of building your own is the whole reason why i want to build this light)

Thats what i'm thinking of doing...

1. I will get a reflector made deep enough to utilise most of the lamps light if possible
2. I will buy a Thor monster light
3. I will also modify the head of they light to accommodate the depth of the new reflector.
4. Electronics can be sourced brand new i think RA was using USHIO ballasts and the sort. Thats not problem.

Without researching and going too far into detail, can any of you hardcore fanatics recommend a lamp which would suit my needs or point to some lamps that i'm thinking of.

I do not want to smash the reflector or anything like that, i just want to buy the lamp, mount the deleted - Norm, connect the high voltage cables and flick the switch.

Thanks in advance



Any suggestions?


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## The_Driver (Feb 4, 2014)

Do you have a lathe and know how to use it?

I hope you realize how difficult and dangerous this is....
The high-pressure mercury bulbs required for this (Xenon is even more difficult because of the high power draw) produce a lot of uv rediation. They can cause severe sunburns and damage your eye in under a minute. 

Finding a lamp with a higher luminance (intensity) than the HBO 103 is very difficult. This bulb is extremely good in that regard.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 4, 2014)

I would suggest sending a PM to getlit about this idea. He seems to be aware of the highest luminance lamps available and could give you some guidance.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 5, 2014)

Driver, you're definitely right, it is quite scary when you think about it.

My uncle is a high performance race engine builder In Western Sydney and owns 2 lathes, a Hafco Al1000 and a DEEPAK.

He bored my base holder on the Blitz for my moon blaster build.


Tone, I might send get-lit a PM right now... Cheers..


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 5, 2014)

If you go the route of trying a short-arc build definitely keep us in the loop.  All safety issues aside, even once you have the proper reflector getting a good focus on such a small arc will be a challenge. Deciding whether to go AC or DC will make a big difference in that regard. Good luck to you!


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## UNiT5 (Feb 5, 2014)

So theres a difference in going AC over DC? In which way?

I thought that the ballast initially gets DC input but outputs AC?

Looks like i have some more research to do.

I definitely want to build a more powerful maxablaster with custom reflector and will document every stage...

Need to finish my moon blaster build first...


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## The_Driver (Feb 5, 2014)

You will need to design and make a 3D-positioning system for the bulb. It needs to be very precise (<0,1mm if I remember correctly). You need this to get the "hotspot" of the arc (bascially the brightest part) into the focus point of the reflector. The hotspot will be around 0,1mm large.

A few months ago somebody made a cheaper copy of the Maxablaster with the same bulb. Maybe you can ask him for advice. 

Here you can find the intensities of some hid bulbs (at the bottom of the first post - it's in German). The luminance (intensity) is called "Leuchtdichte" in German. As you can see there are not many bulbs that have a higher intensity. The Osram 250W P-VIP and the Osram 500W XBO that will be used in the Nightsword have a higher intensity.


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## BVH (Feb 5, 2014)

The vast majority, if not all of the big boy short arcs use DC to the lamp or in the case of Carbon Arcs, DC to the carbons.


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## get-lit (Feb 5, 2014)

It comes down to how much light is crammed into as small an area as possible. For instance A 250W P-VIP with a 1mm arc gap is much more concentrated than a 350W P-VIP lamp with 1.5mm gap. Of course its best if there were a list of actual luminous concentrations for these lamps, but it's easy enough to compare output to arc size.

AC vs DC makes practically no difference for P-VIP type lamps because the luminous peaks are not very concentrated and the arc gaps are so small, by design the two peaks of an AC P-VIP lamp completely overlap each other to be the equivalent of a single peak on a DC lamp.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 5, 2014)

getlit's post is good info for you. IIRC, the lamp Ra used in the MaxaBlaster needed to be focused towards one end of the arc because that was where the luminous peak was. I believe there was a significant difference in luminance between that peak and the rest of the arc. That is nice to know that the P-VIP type lamps don't really have this added difficulty in focusing on a luminous peak with AC vs. DC.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 6, 2014)

Great feedback.

The Driver - Guten Tag, Sprehenzi Doich. My cousin from Croatia works for a german braking systems company called Wabco. He speaks fluent German with his bosses in Germany and travels all around Europe - Thanks for that list in German, I google translated the page and am having a look now. Also, with the positioning of the bulb in less than 0.1mm, are you talking thousandths of a mm?  Great quick info with the luminance values. I'm just hoping those values are true. I also seen Edgars post, hopefully he is still checking back at candlepowerforums...

No, really great info, i just wish i had more time to mess around with it, right now, i've got these ideas floating in my mind, but with work and play and family its tough findining time to mess around with lights. Not to mention when ordering parts from the internet it could take weeks to come in.

Actually, i just came across get-lits post on the Nightsword and in the first paragraph which i read before but forgot 

Back then I settled on the Osram XBO 500W/RC OFR lamp with a luminance of 260,000 cd/cm^2 but it soon became unavailable and I gave up for a while to wait for UHP lamps to mature. And now a few years later, we have lots of them for DLP projectors. One lamp series in particular is the Osram P-VIP 100-120/1.0 P22h DLP Lamp with 200,000 cd/cm^2. The lamp would have to be separated from it's reflector to use a high grade 9" reflector and a Thor host. It has excellent color rendition since it's for projectors, and the lamp itself produces roughly a nominal 7,000 lumen. With a lamp life of around 6000 to 8000 hours, it could possibly be doubled to 240 watts and run for 500 hours with a luminance of 400,000 cd/cm^2 and 14,000 lumen. That is the 4 times the luminance of the Osram XBO 7000 Watt! Since it's the luminance that determines the throw potential, this could be one heck of a light. The lamp is only $110.

ok so refreshing my mind, overdriving the high pressure vip lamp!!! UFFF  i like! but overdriving sounds like a fine art and dangerous, but what a great idea!!!


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## UNiT5 (Feb 6, 2014)

Possibly overdriving the lamp to double its stated output?

Sounds like crazy talk!


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## The_Driver (Feb 6, 2014)

UNiT5 said:


> Great feedback.
> 
> The Driver - Guten Tag, Sprehenzi Doich. My cousin from Croatia works for a german braking systems company called Wabco. He speaks fluent German with his bosses in Germany and travels all around Europe - Thanks for that list in German, I google translated the page and am having a look now. Also, with the positioning of the bulb in less than 0.1mm, are you talking thousandths of a mm?  Great quick info with the luminance values. I'm just hoping those values are true. I also seen Edgars post, hopefully he is still checking back at candlepowerforums...
> 
> ...





UNiT5 said:


> Possibly overdriving the lamp to double its stated output?
> 
> Sounds like crazy talk!



I don't know if that much overdriving is possible with those bulbs. I would be very careful and ask everyone her that has experimented with them (Ra, ma_sha1, sven m, Ot10St, Edgar etc.). sven_m has a different name in the german forum: sma. He did those luminance measurements etc. Ot10St actually workes for Osram and was able to source ballasts for sven_m and ma_sha1. 

Concerning the bulb positioning: Ra mentioned in his maxablaster thread that a precision of 0,01mm is required for the HBO 103 W/2. As others have mentionied you probably don't need it to be thaaat precise for the projector bulbs. It wont hurt though . 

Have you checked how much a precision parabolic reflector will cost you? At least 300$...
I would also recommend you get a borofloat lens with a UV filter to help protect you.

When you remove the bulb from the protective envelope/reflector you will need protective clothing to shield you. The bulbs are like small grenades.

Concerning the light quality of the projector bulbs: their specifications for the 120W Philips bulb are CCT: 7600K, CRI: Ra 57. At first those do not seem very good (and they aren't), but because of the high pressure the spectral lines are broadend and there is more red light in the spectrum than one would think. If you want a high light quliaty (meaning much higher CRI and a lower color temperature) you will need to use a Xenon shot-arc bulb. I have used the light made by sven_m (120W P-VIP). I found the light to be very cool tinted.

*EDIT*: here you can find the current Osram P-VIP catalogue. Wouldn't a bulb with an arc gap of 0.8mm be smarter?
The Osram 69793: 190-230W, 4000 hours, 0.8mm arc-gap
Or the Osram 69806: 230-280W, 3000 hours, 0.9mm arc-gap
Or the Osram 69792, 300-350W, 2000 hours, 1.3mm arc-gap

Unfortunately the philips catalogue doesn't include any useful data.


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## get-lit (Feb 7, 2014)

The HBO 103 is extremely difficult to beat because it has just a 0.6mm arc gap. Because it's a Mercury based lamp, DC operation doesn't lend it mush advantage as far is a peak point of luminous intensity. Ra posted a photo of the arc and there're practically no amount of peak luminance. The lamp I'm using is also Mercury based with DC operation and I've thoroughly inspected the actual arc. Again, there's not much of a peak luminance point like Xenon lamps. The peak luminance point in Xenon lamps is a result of the Xenon gas being a more resistive electron carrier, and the downside is that a very large, heavy power supply is needed to drive it with massive current.

Regarding the P-VIP lamps, it's a toss up between the 280W 0.9mm gap and the 230W 0.8mm gap. The 280W has 21.74% more output but also has 26.5625% more luminance surface area, so it's likely to be 22.18% less intense than the 230W 0.8mm gap.

There is another company manufacturing a lamp very similar to the Osram XBO 500W/RC OFR, but I don't recall who it was. But if the P-VIP 100-120/1.0 P22h has 30% less intensity than the 500W/RC, both the 280W 0.9mm and the 230W 0.8mm should theoretically crush it.

If I had to choose among those two without doing actual tests, I'd definitely go with the 230W 0.8mm gap.


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## get-lit (Feb 7, 2014)

So I plugged the 280W 0.9mm and 230W 0.9mm into the beam calculator and it shows the 280W 0.9mm actually having 4.25% more candlepower and 23.3% more Net Beam Luminance (comprised of candlepower and lumen output).

You really can't overdrive these more than 5%. If you pushed the 280W to 300W, you'd probably get away with it but there would be significant reduction in lamp life. At 300W that lamp is almost 200MCP in my configuration with long FL reflector and a retro-reflector. But without that configuration you're not going to get that kind of output. 

Here's some comparisons assuming 65 Lumen/Watt efficacy...

300W 0.9mm with Long FL and Retro-Reflector=
85.4% Light Gather, 12,223 Beam Lumen after losses
196 MCP and 20,556 Net Beam Luminance

300W 0.9mm with Short FL Reflector=
60.6% Light Gather, 9,568 Beam Lumen after losses
93 MCP and 9,409 Net Beam Luminance

300W 0.9mm with Short FL Reflector w/Retro-Reflector=
79.7% Light Gather, 11,797 Beam Lumen after losses
151 MCP and 14,926 Net Beam Luminance

*Short FL Reflector being 0.75"FL 9.5"CA. All reflectors and retro-reflectors using high end coatings of >90% reflectance and AR coated lens.

EDIT - Remember the overall intensity of the beam you see in the sky is based on Net Beam Luminance, not just Candlepower.

Notice that with the Short FL Reflector, the Retro-Reflector doesn't much increase the beam lumen, but is primarily to divert light away from the rearward surface of the reflector and onto the forward surface of the reflector where it becomes more collimated. This is because the rearward surface is close to the light source and the forward surface is much further from the source. The further the reflection distance from the source, the better the collimation.

A little more than you're asking, but bottom line is go with the 280W 0.9mm and try with a 300W ballast. You're probably not going to use a retro-reflector, but let me know what reflectors you have in mind and I'll let you know which of them would work best.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 7, 2014)

get-lit said:


> So I plugged the 280W 0.9mm and 230W 0.9mm into the beam calculator and it shows the 280W 0.9mm actually having 4.25% more candlepower and 23.3% more Net Beam Luminance (comprised of candlepower and lumen output).
> 
> You really can't overdrive these more than 5%. If you pushed the 280W to 300W, you'd probably get away with it but there would be significant reduction in lamp life. At 300W that lamp is almost 200MCP in my configuration with long FL reflector and a retro-reflector. But without that configuration you're not going to get that kind of output.
> 
> ...



Look, its hard to say, i'm still a newbie but with a drive to succeed.

And I guess the only way for me to succeed is by hanging around successful people and listen, learn and experiment.

Now, get-lit, being so advanced into your science, its relatively difficult to decipher your davinci lumens code without using a dictionary, encyclopedia and google. 

In saying so, my plan is simple, build a Thor host light, with a high end reflector, install the ballast, batteries and any other accessories like possibly a volt meter and some fans/switches - to acheive a fat laser pointer light that will out throw the Maxablaster. So a reflector to match, maybe aluminium based with the best possible coating for the type of lamp i will pick.

Now i've had a bloke who quoted me in excess of $1000 to manufacture a aluminium reflector that I though would be great to use in my blitz being 240mm, but i'm scrapping that idea to head towards manufacturing one for the THOR, once again to collect all the light, simply put, and throw him to the moon.

Now judging by what people are saying with the XBO 103 being a great all rounder, i am curious to know which monkey lamp will suit my idea of having a thrower to rival the maxablaster....


You did mention get-lit overdriving a p-vip 120 lamp by 100%. Have you actually managed this? As the figures you are stating are quite phenomenal, even for a laymen like myself who can tell the difference between bigger numbers.


But at the end of the day, whatever would suit my needs, aslong as the thing throws laser like for 6 + kms, id be pretty content and also happy that it rivals the maxablaster.

I mean, the p-vip 120 1.0 has more luminance than the XBO 103, am i right straight off the bat?

I currently own a Phillips 120/132 1.0 lamp that i'll be using in my moon blaster build.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 7, 2014)

You should get a quote from this company that manufactures reflectors and they advertise on CPF with a banner. http://www.phoenixelectroforms.com/index.html


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## get-lit (Feb 7, 2014)

Again go with the Osram 69806 230-280W 0.9mm arc-gap lamp, drive it at 300W max.

You need a reflector with a Nickel substrate, not aluminum.

If you want the reflective coating to last, it should be Rhodium, especially since this will have to be forced-air ventilated to cool the lamp.

But Rhodium is low on reflectance, so if you want durability with high reflectance, you're looking at big money. In which case, you're looking at a Nickel substrate reflector, with aluminum coating, with protective layer. This combination is simply called "protected aluminum". It's not nearly as durable as Rhodium but sufficient it you want the highest performance. 

These typically do cost around $1000. If you want a specific geometry for maximum output, you'll need to have a mandrel made for around $5000. If you shop around for stocked reflectors, you can get into the $500 ballpark. Optiforms has the largest selection of stocked reflectors, but do tend to cost more. NiPro has a decent selection. Phoenix Electroformed Products has the best pricing but is most limited in stocked reflectors in this range of size. They also have really great pricing for a custom reflector with a mandrel, still in the $5000 range.

Also, keep in mind you will need forced-air ventilation to cool the lamp.

What is the reflector size and depth you can fit into your Thor host? This is really your limiting factor. If I know this, I can tell you what reflector you need.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 8, 2014)

Mr. Tone. Cheers for that.

get-lit - Good question. I haven't yet put in an order for a Thor host. Awaiting funds and the completion of the moon blaster.

$5000 for a reflector is getting a bit out of control I would hope!


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## UNiT5 (Feb 8, 2014)

I'll definitely send enquiries on getting a reflector made or source a good quality reflector.

High reflectance is of utmost importance, obviously.

Just a matter of research and planning.


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## The_Driver (Feb 8, 2014)

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but please just think about this: member "Ra" is an optics engineer who spent over a year working on his light to perfect it and make it as safe as possible (keep in mind he built it 8 years ago). This technology is not for "toys" and is rather dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. There is a reason why there is no spotlight on the market that is this powerful. It's very complicated to develop and make. 

Keep in mind the extremely high voltages between the ballast and the bulb, the large amounts of UV radiation, the extremely high pressure in the bulb, the extreme light intensity (don't look into the bulb even if it's behind a UV-filter) and the very large battery (especially if it's a lithium-ion oder -polymer battery). 

I think you should now make a list of needed components (as detailed as possible) and note the estimated price next to each component. That would be a good start. It's nice to have an overview.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 8, 2014)

The Driver - You are scaring me, which is a good thing. I think also reminding myself of such dangers is a good thing, you can never be more careful! I totally agree with you.

One thing i forgot to mention, smashing the bulb. I'm not a big fan of it. As far as i'm aware, there is not p-vip bulb available just the bulb without the reflector?


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## The_Driver (Feb 8, 2014)

UNiT5 said:


> The Driver - You are scaring me, which is a good thing. I think also reminding myself of such dangers is a good thing, you can never be more careful! I totally agree with you.
> 
> One thing i forgot to mention, smashing the bulb. I'm not a big fan of it. As far as i'm aware, there is not p-vip bulb available just the bulb without the reflector?



You will have to carefully compress the reflector until it breaks. These bulbs are not available without the housing since they are only for projectors.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 8, 2014)

The_Driver said:


> You will have to carefully compress the reflector until it breaks. These bulbs are not available without the housing since they are only for projectors.



That sounds a little scary in and of itself!


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## get-lit (Feb 8, 2014)

The_Driver said:


> I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but please just think about this: member "Ra" is an optics engineer who spent over a year working on his light to perfect it and make it as safe as possible (keep in mind he built it 8 years ago). This technology is not for "toys" and is rather dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. There is a reason why there is no spotlight on the market that is this powerful. It's very complicated to develop and make.
> 
> Keep in mind the extremely high voltages between the ballast and the bulb, the large amounts of UV radiation, the extremely high pressure in the bulb, the extreme light intensity (don't look into the bulb even if it's behind a UV-filter) and the very large battery (especially if it's a lithium-ion oder -polymer battery).



This is the best piece of advice you've gotten Unit5. People do die from these ignition voltages. People do go blind from this UV exposure. I was ignorant to assume everyone knew these things before I jumped in and gave advice. Don't start your project from just the answers given here. You need to have much more than just a fundamental grasp on everything. If you go by what you're told here without understanding exactly why, you're missing out on all of what makes this type of project appreciable. At a minimum, you need to understand all of the related threads in this forum, and you should research outside this site as well.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 8, 2014)

The_Driver said:


> There is a reason why there is no spotlight on the market that is this powerful. It's very complicated to develop and make.



That is a great statement. Even the current Maxabeam Gen III is putting out a true 12 million candlepower which is almost 1/5th of what Ra's Maxablaster did 8 years ago. Wow, that really makes you think. getlit's thread is also a wonderful example of how much thought and preparation must go into this kind of endeavor. Obviously, getlit has spent far more time researching on his non-CPF time. Reading some of his posts, calculations, and theories makes my head spin. That kind of project is something I am enjoying watching from the sidelines.


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## stuartsjg (Feb 8, 2014)

On the ac or dc thing, it's the lamp design which dictates what it needs.
Generally if the electrodes are the same size, such as in HMI then it's ac (dc will overheat one electrode) and if it's a dc lamp, one electrode (anode) will probably be bigger, such as XBO, the smaller electrode will melt with ac. 

Starting doesn't matter, the hv pulse is probably going to be ac, or at least a modulation dc waveform, never seen this specified. 

Still torn between the xenon or halide for my projects. Have Hmion hand as that's what came up most on ebay. It's also much more efficient by ways of lm/w. But the almost perfect point source of light is appealing albeit bringing focusing completely.


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## get-lit (Feb 8, 2014)

The pros and cons of Xenon vs Mercury based lamps..

Xenon is nearly instant full output.

For the same lumen output, Xenon can produce a higher peak beam intensity due to the region of peak luminance intensity.

For the same wattage, Mercury can produce more than twice as much lumen output, and if the arc is small enough, can produce higher peak beam intensity, especially in the case of P-VIP lamps.

For the same wattage, and especially for the same lumen output, the power supply for Mercury based weighs 10 to 20 times less. This limits the power for Xenon in a practical portable light.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 10, 2014)

Ok, so getting back to the p-vip, i definitely do not want to smash the reflector, its messy and can possible destroy the lamp.

I'd rather a individual bulb style like the xbo 103 which is easily mountable.

This is much cleaner and professional over smashing a reflector...

My experience with smashing the p-vip with my moonblaster build, its just dirty and unprofessional although i can understand the advantages of doing so.

Just prefer to cleanly mount a brand new lamp with some bolts and bob's your uncle.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 10, 2014)

HULK.............SMASH................just kidding, I couldn't resist


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 11, 2014)

I found Ra's post about the surface brightness distribution on the arc of the Osram HBO 103/W2 lamp. Here is the post below.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...axablaster!)&p=1511860&viewfull=1#post1511860


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## UNiT5 (Feb 12, 2014)

lol HULK style compresses the reflector in your hand!!!

It's all very interesting, but if i start taking time away from my job, family and the rest of it to focus on the mathermatics of it all, first my head would explode as i believe its already about, secondly i simply can't handle the extra information. 

BUT IN SAYING SO LOOOOL probably contradicting myself now, i've read RA's statement on luminace distribution and considering building the moon blaster was none other than the concoction of common sense, previous mechanical/electrical experience and determination along with hard earned savings spent , a relatively, if you put your mind to it, easy task, i would not imagine that there are so many factors involved in all things bulbs!

get-lit's nightsword production is a perfect example. And then you are taking away the body design and the rest of the thought process behind the build not to mention the bulb factors, ballast factor, battery factor, etc etc.

Anyways, now that the moon blaster is almost done, i'm loving the idea of the 280watt p-vip lamp in the Thor host and over driving it to 300watt.

Sounds like a great idea, as long as it will drive the source further than RA's, well that's the hope.

Just a thought, over driving the HBO 103 to 120? Safe?


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## UNiT5 (Feb 16, 2014)

get-lit said:


> There is another company manufacturing a lamp very similar to the Osram XBO 500W/RC OFR, but I don't recall who it was. But if the P-VIP 100-120/1.0 P22h has 30% less intensity than the 500W/RC, both the 280W 0.9mm and the 230W 0.8mm should theoretically crush it.
> .



If you are able to refresh your memory and inform me of the company and model number so i can take a look at it. Would love to know as i've noticed that the xbo 500w rc ofr is quite the shiner in terms of luminance. this datasheet http://www.osram.hu/_global/pdf/osr..._optic/xbokino/123R008GB_XBO_Service_Card.pdf shoes the xbo 500w rc ofr luminance to absolutely blitz everything around it... it seams quite interesting.

i am still keen on the 230 or 280 watt p-vip lamps and over driving one of them but i want to do this properly once and then not back pedal or have seconds thoughts of "did i make the right choice".


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## UNiT5 (Feb 16, 2014)

get-lit said:


> So I plugged the 280W 0.9mm and 230W 0.9mm into the beam calculator and it shows the 280W 0.9mm actually having 4.25% more candlepower and 23.3% more Net Beam Luminance (comprised of candlepower and lumen output).
> 
> You really can't overdrive these more than 5%. If you pushed the 280W to 300W, you'd probably get away with it but there would be significant reduction in lamp life. At 300W that lamp is almost 200MCP in my configuration with long FL reflector and a retro-reflector. But without that configuration you're not going to get that kind of output.
> 
> ...



300W 0.9mm with Long FL and Retro-Reflector=
85.4% Light Gather, 12,223 Beam Lumen after losses
196 MCP and 20,556 Net Beam Luminance

obviously this is much more attractive don't you think? 

as soon as some funds come in, i will put in an order for a thor.

get some dimensions and start thinking about a reflector. also if i have to manufacture an extension for the long fl reflector and the thor, i will also look into this, all i would need to do is find someone to make me an extension peice.


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## get-lit (Feb 16, 2014)

UNiT5 said:


> If you are able to refresh your memory and inform me of the company and model number so i can take a look at it. Would love to know as i've noticed that the xbo 500w rc ofr is quite the shiner in terms of luminance. this datasheet http://www.osram.hu/_global/pdf/osr..._optic/xbokino/123R008GB_XBO_Service_Card.pdf shoes the xbo 500w rc ofr luminance to absolutely blitz everything around it... it seams quite interesting.
> 
> i am still keen on the 230 or 280 watt p-vip lamps and over driving one of them but i want to do this properly once and then not back pedal or have seconds thoughts of "did i make the right choice".



Driving the 280W 0.9mm P-VIP at 300W should outperform that lamp anyhow. Plus that lamp is around $1000. 500W Xenon ballast a few grand at least, and heavy.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 16, 2014)

get-lit said:


> Driving the 280W 0.9mm P-VIP at 300W should outperform that lamp anyhow. Plus that lamp is around $1000. 500W Xenon ballast a few grand at least, and heavy.



Did you have a good method of breaking the reflector without hurting the lamp? Was it very difficult?


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## UNiT5 (Feb 16, 2014)

Mr. Tone said:


> Did you have a good method of breaking the reflector without hurting the lamp? Was it very difficult?



And to add. 

I found a UHP 300w ballast on Ebay but am also looking for other suitable ballasts. I'm guessing the UHP ballast will power the p-vip.

Are there any other electronics companies that sell 300w p-vip ballasts that i can check out? As far as I know, uSHIO go up to 100w, but not 100% sure.

:thumbsup:


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## UNiT5 (Feb 17, 2014)

Found a ballast p-VIP 5ac 380 04


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## get-lit (Feb 18, 2014)

Can't find anything on that one.. if it's 300W, I'd say go with it.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 18, 2014)

get-lit said:


> Can't find anything on that one.. if it's 300W, I'd say go with it.



apparently its 300w...


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## UNiT5 (Feb 18, 2014)

RA posted in one of the threads regarding his reflector for the maxablaster his short arc xbo 103 light



> RA
> The reflectors at the link Greg posted really are a bargain: In Maxablaster I use almost the same type: 02 RPM 018.. Which only has a smaller central hole.
> Indeed these normally are expensive ($600-700..ish..)
> 
> ...



this matches what you've been saying all along get-lit.

if i were to one up on his reflector, and possibly get an aluminium coating, along with rhodium on a nickel substrate, would this improve my chances?

also, the thor host uses a 9.5" reflector from what i can gather, and one dude edgar managing to use a reflector from a phoenix for his thor...


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## UNiT5 (Feb 18, 2014)

http://ltlw3.iams.sinica.edu.tw/support/OpticsGuide/chap09_Mirrors.pdf - interesting reading on different type of mirrors


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## get-lit (Feb 18, 2014)

*Here's good info on coatings*

*Here's reflectivity graphs*
*
Here's reflectivity graphs for Metallic Coatings*


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## UNiT5 (Feb 19, 2014)

get-lit said:


> *Here's good info on coatings*
> 
> *Here's reflectivity graphs*
> *
> Here's reflectivity graphs for Metallic Coatings*



hmmm protected aluminium sounds good. I wonder what costs are we looking at and what kind of timeframe are we looking at before it starts to oxidize.

By reading what theyre stating, that aluminium has more reflectance than rhodium...

Ok so the 280w 0.9 p-vip is UV emitting and Mercury based.

Also get-lit you mentioned previously about a retro reflector on a long FL reflector, are we talking about 2 reflectors in the THor here? A retro reflector is like a small parabolic reflector that captures light at the base/middle of the reflector where the hole is for the lamp, that reflects the light into the long FL reflector where it doesnt receive as much light?

HAHA sorry for the newbie questions! just need to get my head around it.



so to keep it simple, optiforms, 9.5inch parabolic reflector, with protected aluminium coating is what i'll be looking at for the Thor build with the p-vip 280w overdriven to 300w. Optiforms have a protected aluminium for UV aswell..


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## UNiT5 (Feb 19, 2014)

So bright even the sun gets jealous. 
Take advantage of our ever-expanding range of P-VIP projection lamps and profit from one of the highest luminance levels in the universe. 


hehe such a bold statement, i love it


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## UNiT5 (Feb 19, 2014)

Technology Discharge lamps with Mercury-halogen gas
Lamp power 100 – 250 W AC
Lumen yield > 60 lm / W
Pressure cold lamp: 100 mbar
hot lamp: up to 250 bar
Burner temperature operating: up to 1200 °C
typical cool down < 5 min.
Pre-materials
Burner Glass: ultra pure quartz glass
Electrodes: Tungsten
Reflector Glass, coated with dichroic mirror


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## UNiT5 (Feb 19, 2014)

This P-VIP lamp
operates at high pressure and at high temperature and may
unexpectedly shatter.
generates ultraviolet radiation which may cause skin and
eye irritation with prolonged exposure.
must be operated only in suitably designed, enclosed fixtures which
prevent direct observation of the arc and will prevent lamp fragments
from exiting, in the unlikely event of a lamp rupture.

Caution
This lamp emits ultra violet (UV) radiation and operates at high pressure.
This lamp may only be used in enclosed fixtures that comply with
UL1572. Due to the high luminous efficacy, the UV radiation which the
lamp emits and the high pressure within the lamp, P-VIP lamps may
only be operated within enclosed, purpose-built housings.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 19, 2014)

Mr. Tone said:


> Did you have a good method of breaking the reflector without hurting the lamp? Was it very difficult?



I drilled out the cement around the base of the bulb and pulled the glass off the top of the reflector and pulled the lamp out, but like I said that lead wire came undone.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 19, 2014)

Mr. Tone said:


> Did you have a good method of breaking the reflector without hurting the lamp? Was it very difficult?



I drilled out the cement around the base of the bulb and pulled the glass off the top of the reflector and pulled the lamp out, but like I said that lead wire came undone.


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## get-lit (Feb 19, 2014)

Protected aluminum would be fine as long as you have adequate cooling and don't operate the light in wet conditions.

All these manufacturers produce the same top optical grade reflectors. Optiforms costs more but has the most selection, so they are good to go with if the other companies don't have what you need in stock for just a one off. First check with the others, notably NiPro Optics and Phoenix Electroformed to see if they have the size you need in stock.

Not so easy trying a unique and complex configuration like the long FL with retro-reflector in a Thor host. If you really wanted to give it a shot, you could go with a 2.35" focal length reflector with 9.5" aperture for the primary reflector. Obtaining a retro-reflector and devising a mounting means to the lamp takes much more time and cost than the primary reflector because you'll need a mandrel made for a retro-reflector, and need two precision alignment methods. Your best bet is to go with just a short focal length reflector without retro-reflector, especially for your first go at it. This could potentially produce slightly more candlepower in the beam center but less beam power (less visible beam overall). First thing you need to do is determine the reflector diameter your Thor host can fit, and also the depth. Then you can figure out the largest reflector you can use.

Still, I'm wondering how you would achieve cooling with a Thor host. A 100W can go without cooling under good conditions, but 300W requires forced-air cooling. Maybe forced-air cooling could be done with the Thor host, but I think at some point it may be easier to dump the Thor and make your own housing. That way you're not limited to the limitations of the Thor host in accommodating optimal needs across the board.

It really depends on how much you want to put into this, if it's a fleeting interest or something you want to dedicate your time and resources to. If your objective is to just one up Ra's Maxablaster, it should at least sustain reliable operation in order to actually count as a hand held searchlight. i.e. not over driving the lamp beyond 10% and having forced-air cooling for lamps much beyond 100W.

_*Gotta say though, aside from being a fun project don't count on it having the merit of rivaling the Maxablaster when getting the research handed to you. The Maxablaster will always be king because Ra created it only with what he learned on his own before any of this information was available. It takes more than a decade to learn everything on your own, or it could be done with the information shared here in the forums by spending probably less than a year to take it in, but the trend lately is to just jump in without taking either of these routes. Repeating here what's already been posted makes the forum redundant and trying to help in that manner is actually helping others to not realize all the fun and appreciation of doing the research to develop a solid understanding and using creativity to spur something new and inventive.*_

EDIT- By the way, I was very naive and overly optimistic back when I suggested doubling the power to the Osram XBO 500W/RC OFR. That's ridiculously funny.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 19, 2014)

get-lit said:


> Protected aluminum would be fine as long as you have adequate cooling and don't operate the light in wet conditions.
> 
> All these manufacturers produce the same top optical grade reflectors. Optiforms costs more but has the most selection, so they are good to go with if the other companies don't have what you need in stock for just a one off. First check with the others, notably NiPro Optics and Phoenix Electroformed to see if they have the size you need in stock.
> 
> ...



I dont usually take time off work to reply in candlepowerforums as i usually do so at night before i hit the sack.

But in saying so, you are absolutely correct get-lit.

I may have got a bit heavy handed going into this project wanting to build a powerhouse thrower, BUT never did i think that i was in anyway trying to take the spotlight (get it spotlight lol) off RA. Without guys like yourself and RA sharing their experiences on forums like this great one we are on, people like myself, who love powerful lights (since i was a little kid) but don't have the know how or stepping stone to get into the sport.

I wish i could pay you guys back for all the hard work and effort that goes into these projects, not to mention the passion and enthusiasm and knowledge that was taught to you.

Sometimes i'm afraid to ask for help because i think help usually doesnt come free, but since i've been here, the front page of this website, where it says welcome to the largest and friendliest community on the internet, its definitley living up to that statement.

Yes, i've jumped right into the custom spot light genre, and i feel very privilidged for having the chance to do so, thank God, the internet and guys like yourself for ultimately giving me that chance.

Its a fun past time to jump into definitely, although i have a busy schedule in my day to day life, i still can find some time in taking up this passion and love for high powered torches. Look i dont hang around the LED sections, i'm only in this section as i love the things that are happening in here.

Once again, hats off to you, RA, BVH, the moderators and MA SHA and everyone for being involved and sharing their experiences. Like i said before, i've got life experience in a variety of subjects, i'm a real estate agent in south western sydney, thats my true passion, i work day and night servicing my community and helping them buy/sell/rent property, but i feel like i dont want to just limit myself to the one subject, i need a bit of variety that way, keeps the mind and soul active and fresh.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 19, 2014)

is dreaming of being an electrical/optical engineer!


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## UNiT5 (Feb 19, 2014)

so in saying all that!

just go with the parabolic reflector with the protected aluminium coating.

forced air shouldnt be a problem, i'll just make it work. if i have to i'll placed fans on the outside of the THor.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 19, 2014)

i better get back to work, i'll be on later. cheers.


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## get-lit (Feb 19, 2014)

I find that having such different interests helps round out the edges when things get tough, like complimentary colors on the color wheel. This would be a good compliment for your real estate ventures and I look forward to seeing what you come up with. One thing that makes this all the more enjoyable is there's so many ways to go about it. For instance, I'd like to see someone make their own lens based searchlight, with a parabolic or ellipsiodal P-VIP behind a large aspheric. Heck that would actually be less work because P-VIP come with embedded and aligned parabolic or ellipsiodal reflectors which wouldn't need removed. There is info about these methods here. Enjoy reading, learning, and exploring what you find most interesting.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 20, 2014)

Forgot to mention the driver and mr tone for their help!!


I've got a spare 120w ballast maybe I can try the aspheric option..


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## UNiT5 (Feb 20, 2014)

get-lit said:


> I find that having such different interests helps round out the edges when things get tough, like complimentary colors on the color wheel. This would be a good compliment for your real estate ventures and I look forward to seeing what you come up with. One thing that makes this all the more enjoyable is there's so many ways to go about it. For instance, I'd like to see someone make their own lens based searchlight, with a parabolic or ellipsiodal P-VIP behind a large aspheric. Heck that would actually be less work because P-VIP come with embedded and aligned parabolic or ellipsiodal reflectors which wouldn't need removed. There is info about these methods here. Enjoy reading, learning, and exploring what you find most interesting.



cheers get-lit


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## The_Driver (Feb 21, 2014)

Please take lots of pictures along the way and post them here! :thumbsup:


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## The_Driver (Feb 21, 2014)

please delete


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## UNiT5 (Feb 21, 2014)

The_Driver said:


> Please take lots of pictures along the way and post them here! :thumbsup:











haha messing around with the settings on my camera.






it's not get-lit's torche cloud bounce but its a cloud bounce! :naughty:


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## The_Driver (Feb 21, 2014)

UNiT5 said:


> haha messing around with the settings on my camera.
> 
> 
> 
> it's not get-lit's torche cloud bounce but its a cloud bounce! :naughty:



Thanks, I also meant of the light itsself


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 21, 2014)

Those are some nice looking light-saber pics! The aspheric possiblility is definitely interesting. There is a factory light that exists called the MegaRay that uses such a design and is a serious performer. ma sha1 made a light or two with this concept/design. Here is the thread. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Blaster-My-first-short-arc-mod-MegaRay-style


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## Bill Idaho (Feb 21, 2014)

Hi guys. I've been a member here for a few years (I don't post much), and just to refresh things, I've got a gutted out VSS-3, begging for something to put inside, so..............I've been watching this thread with great interest. My VSS-3 has the housing, fan, reflector, and lens. This thread is dancing around everything I need. 
My question is: is the reflector in a VSS-3 suitable for the bulbs being mentioned here? 

Once everyone pretty well decides what will work with what-----I'm opening my wallet.


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## BVH (Feb 21, 2014)

Bill said:


> Hi guys. I've been a member here for a few years (I don't post much), and just to refresh things, I've got a gutted out VSS-3, begging for something to put inside, so..............I've been watching this thread with great interest. My VSS-3 has the housing, fan, reflector, and lens. This thread is dancing around everything I need.
> My question is: is the reflector in a VSS-3 suitable for the bulbs being mentioned here?
> 
> Once everyone pretty well decides what will work with what-----I'm opening my wallet.



Wondered where you'd gone to. Does your shell still have the 2-leg front support structure with front lamp support? I don't remember exactly but I think the OEM lamp is about 11" long so you would probably need some type of lamp adapters/extenders to mount whatever lamp you choose into the OEM lamp holders and to keep the shorter lamp "point of arc" in the reflectors focal point.

You don't have the VSS-3 control box or lamp, right?


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## get-lit (Feb 21, 2014)

Nice beam shots, they'll get even better with an optical grade reflector.



UNiT5 said:


> i dont want to just limit myself to the one subject, i need a bit of variety that way, keeps the mind and soul active and fresh.



:thinking: ..thanks to Socrates, Plato was wrong

Plato - Hardly any human being is capable of pursuing two professions or two arts rightly

Socrates - Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others have labored hard for


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## UNiT5 (Feb 22, 2014)

Mr. Tone said:


> Those are some nice looking light-saber pics! The aspheric possiblility is definitely interesting. There is a factory light that exists called the MegaRay that uses such a design and is a serious performer. ma sha1 made a light or two with this concept/design. Here is the thread. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Blaster-My-first-short-arc-mod-MegaRay-style



i've come across this thread before, definitely worth a re-read... I was thinking maybe doing something similar like that german dude did with the pvc plumbing pipe.... haha. but with an aspherical twist.




get-lit said:


> Nice beam shots, they'll get even better with an optical grade reflector
> 
> 
> :thinking: ..thanks to Socrates, Plato was wrong
> ...



plato sounds negative while socrates over-rides plato with his come back. hahaha. get-lit, where you find this bud? lol.

anybody knows, with a bit of persistance and knowledge, things get done, you produce.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 22, 2014)

UNiT5 said:


> i've come across this thread before, definitely worth a re-read... I was thinking maybe doing something similar like that german dude did with the pvc plumbing pipe.... haha. but with an aspherical twist.



A pipe bomb.......er............uh.........I mean a pipe blaster?


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## UNiT5 (Feb 22, 2014)

Mr. Tone said:


> A pipe bomb.......er............uh.........I mean a pipe blaster?



pipe blaster hahaha.


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## Bill Idaho (Feb 22, 2014)

BVH, the front support is still there. No lamp, but I think I have a couple of the -3's and a -1 (maybe the other way around, but I know I have at least three---no not for sale either!) 
Keep going guys....... ( and for my particular application, the power source isn't real important, this thing is going to be plugged into the wall either way. With 110VAC, .......................................................................the sky's the limit. 

Get it? ----the sky's the limit----
Get it? never mind


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## Bill Idaho (Feb 22, 2014)

Oh yeah, the annual Lodi military vehicle show is coming up in a few months, and I don't think I've been to a show that didn't have VSS stuff. 

Just sayin'.


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## BVH (Feb 22, 2014)

What is the "show"? Not an auction? Is it a public event?

So you already have working -3's and -1s and you're just trying to figure out what to do with a left over light head?


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## UNiT5 (Feb 23, 2014)

As per The Driver's request.

Sorry it took so long, but when i took a shot of myself the first time, the camera broke. Apparently i was that ugly the camera couldn't handle it and burnt out. 

Still all a work in progress. My first high powered short arc. Its a complete mess, but it works, and i'm still working on getting everything sorted. I guess you need to start somewhere.

The inverter shown in this picture is the one i blew, so don't pay too much attention the the catastrophe that it is, i thought i'd keep it for parts just in case i may need them.

Enjoy, awaiting new inverter, will mount the light on the enclosure.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 23, 2014)

Thanks for the pics. The reflectors in those Blitz lights are so much better looking than the Thor ones and other large spotlights with ridiculous ratings like "18 million candlepower". I wonder if the Streamlight HID Lightbox would be a good host for some types of mods?


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## The_Driver (Feb 23, 2014)

Thanks for the pictures!
Keep up the good work


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## BVH (Feb 23, 2014)

I just put a couple of new-in-box SL240 Blitz's on Ebay if you want to mod more of them.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 23, 2014)

BVH said:


> I just put a couple of new-in-box SL240 Blitz's on Ebay if you want to mod more of them.



Next project will be the Thor and need to save $$$ 

Importing the Thor will set me back $50 - $60 aussie dollars!

keep telling myself stop spending but this bloody lighting bug. Thank God its not too expensive like some other hobbies.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 23, 2014)

Mr. Tone said:


> Thanks for the pics. The reflectors in those Blitz lights are so much better looking than the Thor ones and other large spotlights with ridiculous ratings like "18 million candlepower". I wonder if the Streamlight HID Lightbox would be a good host for some types of mods?



the lens on the Blitz is also magnifying.

Its quite a thick lens.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 24, 2014)

I'm trying to find some insulated high voltage crimp connectors to join hv cables together.
where can I find them? Bonus if I can purchase from Australia! Or know what they're called...


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## BVH (Feb 24, 2014)

For my Blitz and other HID secondary crimps, I used a typical insulated butt connector and then put 3 layers of shrink wrap around the joint. Never had any flash-overs or other leaks. You can also find specifically rated, high voltage shrink tubing online. I bought some but didn't need it with my fore-mentioned method of splicing.


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## get-lit (Feb 24, 2014)

UNiT5 said:


> plato sounds negative while socrates over-rides plato with his come back. hahaha. get-lit, where you find this bud? lol.



You can mix about any two historic quotes to make any situation ironic. I just thought those two went well here.

I don't think the Blitz lens magnifies. If I'm not mistaken, although the lens is curved, it's thickness is uniform so the two surface refractions result in no light diversion.

For high voltage connectors, I'd use simple spark plug parts. I may have recently described this in my thread.

I'm very surprised to see how well of a beam the Blitz reflector made, especially since you can see the star pattern up close. Also your pics in post #79 show it to have pretty significant issues. The pics happen to be of horizontal lines in the reflector, probably from blinds in the room. This is very useful for checking Surface Continuity using what is called *Zebra Analysis*, typically in CAD. You can see in your pics, particularly your first "light ninja" pic, how there is waviness clearly evident in the lines. That's well beyond the point of it being a minor issue for performance.

EDIT - Can't get Light Ninja out of my head now, that's what you should call this. Hmm, better yet NinjaBlaster :naughty:


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 24, 2014)

get-lit, the spark plug parts idea is brilliant. Those are made for high voltage. Hey, now I am thinking about some Aussies, you know, AC/DC.  As a guitar player I have had great fun playing and teaching their songs.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 26, 2014)

get-lit said:


> You can mix about any two historic quotes to make any situation ironic. I just thought those two went well here.
> 
> I don't think the Blitz lens magnifies. If I'm not mistaken, although the lens is curved, it's thickness is uniform so the two surface refractions result in no light diversion.
> 
> ...



so you think that by your zebra analysis theory and the zebra shapes in my first ninja pic, that the reflector is not up to standard for best performance and that my short arc is missing out on *ALOT* more performance?


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## The_Driver (Feb 26, 2014)

UNiT5 said:


> so you think that by your zebra analysis theory and the zebra shapes in my first ninja pic, that the reflector is not up to standard for best performance and that my short arc is missing out on *ALOT* more performance?



You probably don't even need to do that. High-quality electroformed reflectors always cost a lot of money. The Blitz is too cheap to have one like that.


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## get-lit (Feb 26, 2014)

"A lot" of performance is subjective, but you would notice sharpening and brightening of the beam with an optical grade reflector. Lux measurements would be higher.


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## BVH (Feb 26, 2014)

All-in-all though, in the realm of inexpensive hand helds, the Blitz reflector is a "relatively" great performer especially when modded to HID.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 26, 2014)

BVH said:


> All-in-all though, in the realm of inexpensive hand helds, the Blitz reflector is a "relatively" great performer especially when modded to HID.



Right. The other large reflector lights like the Thor, have very obvious imperfect reflectors. They also don't have a super smooth mirror-like surface, either. The Blitz reflector is probably the best out there in a light less than $150.


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## get-lit (Feb 26, 2014)

The Blitz reflector is the perfect match for typical HID mods with automotive HID lamps. There wouldn't be a significant improvement using an optical grade reflector with automotive HID lamps, but there would with P-VIP type lamps.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 26, 2014)

get-lit said:


> The Blitz reflector is the perfect match for typical HID mods with automotive HID lamps. There wouldn't be a significant improvement using an optical grade reflector with automotive HID lamps, but there would with P-VIP type lamps.



I am sure that is very true. The arc size in automotive HID lamps is quite large like an incandescent filament. With a short arc lamp I imagine there would be noticeable gains with an optical grade reflector.


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## Bill Idaho (Feb 27, 2014)

BVH: The show in Lodi is twice a year. It is a military vehicle (and related items) show, free to the public. It is at Tower Park. I AM NOT PLUGGING THE SHOW per se, just explaining the VSS connection. It starts April 21 ( I think) and goes until the 26th. There are gaggles of people that show up with the huge preponderance of military vehicles and vehicle parts, but there is also tons of other military gear. Hence- the VSS stuff. Like I've said before, I've been going for ten years now, and I don't think there has been more than one or two shows that DIDN'T have VSS stuff. Luck of the draw.
And yes, I have a working -1 and -3. This particular "project" -3 is basically a housing, fan, lens, and reflector. I want to put anything as bright, or almost as bright, inside, but using "civilian" stuff instead. 
Back to normal traffic:


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## get-lit (Feb 27, 2014)

*This* it? Seems they have lots of shows all over the country each year. I might be interested in attending those next year.


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## UNiT5 (Feb 28, 2014)

ok so my moon blaster build being the blitz 240 with its half decent reflector was a good starting point for me to practice before I dedicate energy into the rival cake-a-blaster maxablaster.

So i've gathered enough information in this thread thanks to everyones great input to start devoting time, finance and energy into the rival big boys torch (apart from the lens which i'm thinking might need to be uv protected) but we can work towards that when the time comes.

I've been thinking of a battery combination and was wondering whether i should do eether or eyether. To power both the rival maxablaster and the moon blaster, should i;

1. Get one battery - zippy 8400mah lifepo4 4S2P 30C 13.2V
2. Get two batteries and run in parallel, Turnigy 5000mah 4s1p 20c x 2 = 8S2P 10000mah. 14.8v

With the latter, i was wondering if charging in parallel would be possible with one of the chargers available. Also how would the balancing side work. Would I need to connect the balancing cables in parallel aswell?

Before i start delving into researching, if anyone can shed some light off hand would be great!!!!!!

almost forgot

get-lit - i'm trying to get my head around a retro reflector and a long FL reflector setup and how it works/looks.

Are you able to point me to some reference material with pictures that shows how a retro reflector w FL reflector actually works/looks as i can't paint the picture in my mind.

CCCHEEEERRSS


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## BVH (Feb 28, 2014)

Here's a partial link to the best hobby charger brand out there. Click on the PL6 and scroll down the page and you'll see a parallel balance board good for 6 packs as one of the options to buy with the charger. Both the primary lead connections and balance lead connections are fully fused. Each pack primary and balance leads connects to 1 of 6 "channels/sections" of the MPA balance board. 

ww.usastore.revolectrix.com/Products_2/Cellpro-Chargers_2

If it were me, I would opt for the LiFeP04 pack. I try to stay away from Lipo whenever I have the option.


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## UNiT5 (Mar 7, 2014)

Thanks BVH. I might just go the lifepo4 option with the revolectrix 10xp charger for now!

In moving forward, guess what i've got in my posession.



















Before I go feeding 300 volts into the ballast i does anyone know if these lamps are 100% AC.

Reason being the lamp has 2 connectors and the ballast came with a plug, so i'm thinking i might need to strip the plug and connect directly to the lamp.

This link suggests that all p-vip lamps are AC. That means that i can connect the cable in reverse polarity, it shouldn't matter?

http://www.jscnlamp.com/image/CLPBurnerdetails.pdf


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## UNiT5 (Mar 7, 2014)

btw, its a 280w 0.9 p-vip and 300w ballast


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## get-lit (Mar 7, 2014)

Oh ya, this is going to rock!


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## Onestep (Mar 7, 2014)

Is it smashing time????? If so get a video.


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## Walterk (Mar 7, 2014)

UNiT5 said:


>



There is something that looks to me like a spiral. What is that?

IIRC there is an anode and kathode on XSA bulbs, so doesn't sound like reversable in polarity to me....


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## get-lit (Mar 7, 2014)

It helps ignition so that lower voltage can be used.


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## Mr. Tone (Mar 7, 2014)

Nice lamp, that is going to rock! :rock:


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## UNiT5 (Mar 7, 2014)

Costco just recently opened in Australia and look what my cousin found for me. $56

So can anyone confirm with me that I can connect this lamp in reverse polarity with the ballast!!?


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## UNiT5 (Mar 7, 2014)

Walterk said:


> IIRC there is an anode and kathode on XSA bulbs, so doesn't sound like reversable in polarity to me....



This link also confirms and states that "*124 All VIP« lamps are for AC operation on electronic power supplies and are hot restrikeable. All VIP« 
lamps need forced cooling*."

There is no anode and cathode on p-vip lamps according to the diagram on the farnell pdf.

So this leads me to beleive that i may be able to switch the wires around???


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## UNiT5 (Mar 8, 2014)

Ok so after mucking around for hours and hours i managed to break the leg on the optocoupler.

Beautiful!

I'm starting to think that all this crap around jumping the p-vip ballast is a bit hit and miss for my comfort level.


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## UNiT5 (Mar 8, 2014)

im wondering now how ma sha1 got his ballast working for his swan blaster...


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## get-lit (Mar 8, 2014)

Wish I could answer that but for you but the leads are reversible for AC lamps.


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## UNiT5 (Mar 8, 2014)

get-lit said:


> Wish I could answer that but for you but the leads are reversible for AC lamps.




hmmm, i'm starting to think maybe tricking the ballast with the serial port would be a smarter/cleaner way of turning it on.

I did manage to jump the optocouplers to get the lamp on, but had a hard time keeping it on and the optocouplers sit behind a heatsink which isnt easy to remove.



ma_sha's swan blaster ballast looks similar to my one but i dont see in his posts how he managed to turn his ballast on. It does not appear that he jumped the optocouplers and he does not mention how he turned it on. All he mentioned was his friend that works at osram uploaded a new firmware boosting the ballast to 260w from 230.

Quite annoying as i was hoping for a quick fix. this is putting strain on my life haha.


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## Mr. Tone (Mar 8, 2014)

Have you tried to PM him about your ballast questions?


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## UNiT5 (Mar 8, 2014)

yes i just have. 

Hope to ma_sha1 ballast God he replies!!

maybe another option would be a after market plug and play type ballast although after a search on the internet, not many results appearing.


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## get-lit (Mar 10, 2014)

UNiT5 said:


> this is putting strain on my life haha.



Ah the feeling when things don't go as expected. Keep working at it.


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## Mr. Tone (Mar 10, 2014)

UNiT5 said:


> yes i just have.
> 
> Hope to ma_sha1 ballast God he replies!!
> 
> maybe another option would be a after market plug and play type ballast although after a search on the internet, not many results appearing.



Hopefully he will respond soon. I don't think I have seen any activity by him in a while but I could be wrong. Did you try contacting Osram and asking?


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## UNiT5 (Mar 10, 2014)

Mr. Tone said:


> Hopefully he will respond soon. I don't think I have seen any activity by him in a while but I could be wrong. Did you try contacting Osram and asking?



i will contact them aswell as try some other options.

will report as soon as theres progress hehe.

thanks for the thought.


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## BVH (Mar 10, 2014)

Ma was last on on Jan 27 this year so he's still sort of here.


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## Mr. Tone (Mar 11, 2014)

UNiT5 said:


> i will contact them aswell as try some other options.
> 
> will report as soon as theres progress hehe.
> 
> thanks for the thought.



Good luck and let us know if you get through to someone and get your answer.


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## Optiforms_Todd (May 6, 2014)

If you provide dimensions I would be happy to quote a reflector for you from us here at Optiforms. I have been trying to get us to offer discounted products that didn't make it through quality assurance, in order to have more reasonable solution for people that would still like the high performance of a high quality product with minor defects.


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## edgar (May 6, 2014)

This HBO 103 is amazing , i just put my light on the floor , beam up the sky , take few step back en enjoy it when i can .

The 8400mah life battery is what i use ,its a perfect fit for the Thor host .

Finding a good ballast is the hardest part imho , even RA had some trouble with his first ballast .


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## UNiT5 (Jun 16, 2014)

Hey there Todd thanks for the reply buddy.

Would prefer a reflector free from defects.


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## Syncronisator (Sep 28, 2014)

Any news out there?

The project seems to be held up...


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## UNiT5 (Apr 7, 2015)

Syncronisator said:


> Any news out there?
> 
> The project seems to be held up...



Nearly there!

I'm starting to think about getting the project back on-line!

After doing some more research, i found a forum where a gentlemen has managed to use an arduino board, some transistors & mosfets to trick the ballast into staying on with the serial cable connection method. It seams this is the only way to trick this ballast into staying on, i.e i don't think you can jump the optocouplers on this particular 5 pin ballast!!!

Am consulting with a electrical engineer friend for further help/information, however the instructions on building the circuit & uploading the code to the arduino board to talk to the ballast is clearly listed on another projector forum.

Will need to fiddle around with this first, get the ballast started and then I can progress into the latter stages of the build.


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## Mr. Tone (Apr 8, 2015)

Take your time with these dangerous but fun projects. We will be here when you are ready


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## PolarLi (Apr 8, 2015)

The ballasts for these UHP lamps definitely has som pros, small and efficient. To bad the control interface is a PITA plus the high input voltage. I wish you good luck, and please share more details if you get it to work!


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## UNiT5 (May 21, 2020)

I’m back!! With a vengeance lol!
What a hiatus!
Can’t beleive time has flown!!! 4 years!!
I’m getting a lighting twitch again...
Hope all is well!!


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## UNiT5 (May 22, 2020)

I’m trying to revive my moonblaster, it won’t turn on, the inverter I jumped is only outputting 280v to the ballast.
it used to make 330v so my ballast won’t start and the little gas discharge tube is flashing purple and making a buzzing sound....
need to try and figure out a way to find 380v for the ballast.
I’ve been advised to get a transformer made concerting the 240v ac from my
new inverter into 380v ac...


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