# Tungsten



## karlthev (Sep 9, 2007)

Probably (possibly?) been asked before but, who will machine Tungsten parts and, will I find I need to re-mortgage to have some parts done? Any ideas? Thanks!


Karl


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## LukeA (Sep 9, 2007)

Tungsten is very brittle for a metal. I'm not quite sure why you'd want parts from it.


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## karlthev (Sep 9, 2007)

Well, ya know what "they" say, "sometimes there's no rhyme or reason"! :shrug: Got any possible ideas who may machine the ornery stuff?


Karl


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## PhotonFanatic (Sep 9, 2007)

Tungsten, as in tungsten carbide, which is used to make most cutting tools for lathe and mill work??

Ya know, Karl, that stuff is pretty tough. :devil:

One would need diamond tipped tooling, or some exotically coated tool steel, to handle tungsten carbide.

But, hey, it has been done before--Larry did it, so maybe you should badger him to make one for you.


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## karlthev (Sep 9, 2007)

I believe that tungsten carbide is used for rings and watch cases Fred. Trying to cut that stuff is virtually impossible I understand. I "think" (yeah I know, hard to believe:laughing the tungsten carbide stuff is actually molded into the "final" form and then cast and sintered at high temperatures then polished with diamonds to get that "forever polished" advertisement. You know more than I do--you're the one with the lathe--wanna bust up some nice new tools? :devil: Some machine shops will cut it but I'm not sure of the $ and the number of pieces they would need to do to make a profit. I don't want a light (too dang heavy!!!) just some parts and you know what they say, "parts is parts"!!

Larry is a thought but probably a long, long shot at best. I don't wanna start a stampede ya know!! This just an idle thought--my brain is on idle until work tomorrow morning.....


Karl


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## jcompton (Sep 9, 2007)

Not sure about how to get it done but I would love to have a light made out of tungsten... It's almost impossible to scratch and it would match my watch...


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## Data (Sep 9, 2007)

Tool grinder shops can do tungsten carbide. I have custom tools made all the time. They can start with round or square stock. And yes, it is ground with diamond wheels, not cut on a lathe or mill. They use special machines many of which are CNC.


Cheers
Dave


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## jcompton (Sep 9, 2007)

Do they do plating as well?


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## Data (Sep 10, 2007)

jcompton said:


> Do they do plating as well?




They often offer that service but usually it is not in house.


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## kromeke (Sep 11, 2007)

EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining) can machine the hardest of tungsten carbide (and pure tungsten as well). But EDM is slow and expensive. If you want complicated things like threads made, it gets really expensive. 

Pure tungsten isn't too hard to machine conventionally as it is softer than tungsten carbide (I say that, having drilled holes in pure tungsten with a carbide [tungsten carbide] drill). I'm sure there are tungsten alloys (as opposed to pure) out there. McMaster-Carr sells tungsten carbide and something called "high strength durable tungsten" or "chatter free tungsten".

If you get a machine shop to quote parts for you, you should be sitting down.


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## Rothrandir (Sep 11, 2007)

I'm curious as to the shape and operations required. Is it a fairly simple job? Mill work? Lathe work?


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## karlthev (Sep 11, 2007)

I just got a machine shop to quote me a price on one piece of Tungsten--25mm X 20mm X 2mm, 4mm threaded one end. I was sitting down and the quote wasn't/isn't a firm one----"around" $1,000!! :sick2: Fortunately I was sitting down. As I am lead to believe, it is the threading which drives the price up---waaaaay up!!! Yikes!! How's about we use some styrofoam instead??!! :naughty:



Karl


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## jcompton (Sep 11, 2007)

There has to be a more efficient way to get the job done... Is Tungsten Carbide really that much harder than titanium?


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## karlthev (Sep 11, 2007)

Well yes but, at the price differential it's not worth it--at least not to me. This has been more of an interest story and detective hunt rather than a critical task thank goodness! I just didn't realize what was involved---figured all ya halfta do is pull out the old Gilbert Erector set, slap a couple parts together and mill away!!!:laughing: Well, not exactly it seems!! As I said, not critical. Hope this post gets to that other guy looking to mill and entire light out of Tungsten--possible but only after winning the Lotto! 



Karl


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## Rothrandir (Sep 11, 2007)

What kind of tungsten were you going to use? How much of that quote was for the material?

$1000 seems just a little steep, though I have no idea what to expect material to cost. And then you've got to figure it'll probably take them a couple parts before it's "right".

Regardless, keep us updated, I'm curious to see how it all turns out.


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## scott.cr (Sep 12, 2007)

Rothrandir said:


> $1000 seems just a little steep, though I have no idea what to expect material to cost.



A year ago I was temping as a QC inspector at a job machine shop. When they recycled tungsten carbide cutting tools they'd get about $200 for a coffee can.


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## tvodrd (Sep 13, 2007)

I made a CR2 flashlight out of it once which Don has now. It's identical to your Ti one, Roth. I used chatter-free tungsten. Check McMaster cat# 8279K33. The stuf's *heavy*, and pricey!

Larry


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## PhotonFanatic (Sep 13, 2007)

OK, Karl, here's an offer you can't refuse:

1) Buy an 8" length of 7/8" diameter chatter-free Tungsten from McMaster Carr, for $187

2) Send it to me with a check for $600, and I'll see if I can make a CR2 twisty light for you.

:devil:


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## tvodrd (Sep 13, 2007)

As I recall, it was fairly easy to machine! Nothing like Ti and most species of SS. If I recall, it's 90% W 8% Ni, and 2% Cu, but don't quote me. It's denser than lead.

Larry


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## PhotonFanatic (Sep 13, 2007)

tvodrd said:


> As I recall, it was fairly easy to machine! Nothing like Ti and most species of SS. If I recall, it's 90% W 8% Ni, and 2% Cu, but don't quote me. It's denser than lead.
> 
> Larry



McMaster says 4% copper, 6% nickel.

Sounds like it would make a nice paperweight.


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## karlthev (Sep 14, 2007)

PhotonFanatic said:


> OK, Karl, here's an offer you can't refuse:
> 
> 1) Buy an 8" length of 7/8" diameter chatter-free Tungsten from McMaster Carr, for $187
> 
> ...




OK Fred, gimme 2....errr...make that THREE, yeah, THREE paperweights that shine in the dark!!! That's the ticket!! Prett soon, everybody's gonna want one--just wait 'n see!! You'll see who's laughing then!! Ha! :laughing:



Karl


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## sysadmn (Sep 14, 2007)

PhotonFanatic said:


> OK, Karl, here's an offer you can't refuse:
> 
> 1) Buy an 8" length of 7/8" diameter chatter-free Tungsten from McMaster Carr, for $187
> 
> ...



Can you do that in depleted uranium? I'm after the GITD effect oo:



> *Uranium Baseball*
> 
> A major league baseball weighs about 5.25 ounces. A uranium baseball would weigh over 8.5 pounds!
> 
> ...


FWIW, a gallon container of tungsten runs about 160 lbs, so I'd save weight also!


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## tzzoooma (Jun 27, 2008)

*Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

I love my Tungsten steel wedding band. I haven't been able to scratch it yet and the gray color is great.

Q. - Are there any production LED flashlights made of Tungsten? 

I'd love to get one, the smaller the better.


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## Gunner12 (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

I have not seen one and I'd guess the price to be high if there was one made.

Would Titanium work too?


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## josiah (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

Hey, that would be cool. I like my tungsten wedding band, too. Amazing how I can't scratch the polish. It scratches concrete but not the ring!

One downside would be its weight though. Price, too. I think tungsten is a difficult metal to work because of its hardness and extremely high melting point. Aren't some flashlights milled out of aluminum? There's no way you're milling tungsten rods. =)


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## matrixshaman (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

None that I know of but the idea has been tossed around here before. The stuff is so hard though I'd expect it to be quite expensive to make a light out of it. If it could be done affordably though I'd be in for one.


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## Marduke (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

You basically can't mill it, you have to form it from powder, which means threads are very difficult. Also, it's rather brittle. Throw your light against a wall and it won't dent, it will shatter.

PS:
I'm referring to tungsten carbide, and regular tungsten will scratch


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## tzzoooma (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

Well I guess they're not milled:

"
*How are these stunning rings made?*

Tungsten with carbon and other elements are ground into a powder and then compressed with high heat and pressure dies to form a ring blank.







The blank is then fired in an oxygen-free furnace at an astounding 6,200 degrees Fahrenheit. This process called sintering creates the hardest metal alloy used in making jewelry.



The ring is then cut and shaped using diamond tools with up to 40 total separate steps required for completion. The cutting and shaping of a tungsten ring is similar in many ways to the cutting and polishing of a rough diamond.

Precious metal Inlay rings with gold, silver or platinum are created by grinding a channel in the center of the ring and precisely "swedging" the metal into the channel under extreme pressure.



The ring is then skilfully polished with diamond polishing tools and wheels creating a permanent luster and polish not possible with other metals.



A Tungsten Carbide ring will remain polished forever, and is virtually impossible to scratch. It is a unique metal that epitomizes today's technologically advanced man more than any other.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*



matrixshaman said:


> None that I know of but the idea has been tossed around here before. The stuff is so hard though I'd expect it to be quite expensive to make a light out of it. If it could be done affordably though I'd be in for one.


I doubt it would be much more expensive than fancy items made out of high quality Damascus steel, Silver and other exotic materials common to custom cutlery.


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## tzzoooma (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

Any craftspeople on this forum capable?


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## Gunner12 (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

According to wikipedia(aka, might not be true) pure 100% tungsten can be cut by a hacksaw. What that means machining wise, I don't know.


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## Marduke (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

Here are two older threads discussing it. I think someone managed to make a light once, but IIRC it was tungsten, not tungsten carbide.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/174377&highlight=tungsten
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/173615&highlight=tungsten

It would be VERY heavy when you were done.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 27, 2008)

jcompton said:


> There has to be a more efficient way to get the job done... Is Tungsten Carbide really that much harder than titanium?


Titan is abrasion resistant but it is a soft metal. Most steels are harder than Ti, now Tungstein are in a whole different league of metals.


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## jabe1 (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

Interesting... I don't know anyone else in my circle who has a Tungsten band, now here are some others. I got mine due to it's indestructible qualities. And it looks cool.
Anyway, My understanding is that the machining is very time consuming, and requires specialized tools. Most other metals are cut by this one, what besides diamond can cut it? I can't even imagine getting it threaded. Perhaps Titanium with a few Tungsten carbide accent rings? It would make a unique looking light.


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## MorePower (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*



Gunner12 said:


> According to wikipedia(aka, might not be true) pure 100% tungsten can be cut by a hacksaw. What that means machining wise, I don't know.



The problem with this thread is that some people are referring to tungsten (a metal) but what they actually mean is tungsten carbide (the extremely durable alloy).

Machining a piece of tungsten (metal) would be much more straightforward than trying to machine a piece of tungsten carbide.


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## jabe1 (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*



MorePower said:


> The problem with this thread is that some people are referring to tungsten (a metal) but what they actually mean is tungsten carbide (the extremely durable alloy).
> 
> Machining a piece of tungsten (metal) would be much more straightforward than trying to machine a piece of tungsten carbide.



+1:thumbsup:


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## jabe1 (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

[oops,double post!


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## tzzoooma (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

Okay, solid Tungsten would be fairly easy to do, but would be very heavy and cost a whole lot.

Tungsten carbide ceramic steel would be possible, but would have to be cast in a form and then finished with diamond cutters. Would be relatively light and inexpensive for the material, but would be more shatter-prone, although it would be a super shiny grey polish that would basically never scratch. Just a small one of these and I'd be a happy camper, single CR123 or smaller.


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## matrixshaman (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I doubt it would be much more expensive than fancy items made out of high quality Damascus steel, Silver and other exotic materials common to custom cutlery.



Perhaps not more expensive if it can be produced in a reasonable time but last I checked Damascus, silver and so on fetch a rather high price. A tiny Orb silver flashlight runs around $300 (150 Euro's)and I think that is Sterling silver rather than pure silver. A Damascus flashlight made by Mr. Bulk was fetching $750 to $1000 last I checked. So Tungsten carbide (which I assumed is what we were talking about ) by itself is not terribly expensive but forming and shaping it takes some extreme setup and work. I think Tvodrd - maker of the rare and famous Larry Light may have made one out of Tungsten (not sure if it was TC) but as far as I know no one else has due to the issues in producing one. I do think it could be done but it's going to be a real challenge even for some of our custom light makers and to do just one is not likely to happen unless someone wants to pony up some serious money. 
So don't want to discourage your dream but I wouldn't hold my breath on this unless you've got some big funds to spare.


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## StarHalo (Jun 27, 2008)

Why not just machine the EDC tube/head from titanium alloy, then coat it with tungsten carbide? That should be almost exactly as strong as an all-tungsten unit, and keeps the scratch-resistance, but would be notably lighter..


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## wquiles (Jun 27, 2008)

I have been married for 19 years and I have had a couple wedding bands break on me (the none broken ones are seriously scratched!). Now I have a wedding band made of Tungsten Carbide and after 2 years of daily abuse (I "never" take it off), it has no, and I mean "NO" scratches whatsoever - the stuff "is" TOUGH !!!


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## kromeke (Jun 27, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

Some grades of tungsten carbide are not very brittle. A lot of trekking poles (similar to ski poles) have a tungsten carbide tip. I've used a trekking pole before, and it will dig into rock if you jab it hard into it. The carbide tip doesn't show a bit of wear. It can be tough and hard, it depends on the proportion of tungsten carbide in the cobalt matrix.


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## Ny0ng1 (Jun 28, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

Is this tungsten carbide the same material that is used at the tip of heavy duty masonry drill bits? Eg. Hilti drill bits for drilling concrete at bit diameter 25mm and above.
I also remember about Larry mentioning tungsten but unsure whether it really went to production and if it is tungsten or tungsten carbide.
How about electrical and heat conductivity of tungsten/ tc ?


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## IMSabbel (Jun 28, 2008)

As for metal thungsten: I have to reinforce just how heavy it is. I have a cylinder that was the anode of a 14 kW xenon bulb. Its maybe 50% larger than a rc123 cell, and weights about 240g.

I dont think anybody would want a flashlight made of it. (Especially seeing that at room temperature, wolfram toughness isnt really anything special. It more shines at very high temperatures..)


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## KeyGrip (Jun 28, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*



Ny0ng1 said:


> How about electrical and heat conductivity of tungsten/ tc ?



Good point. If it doesn't conduct electricity or move heat well, it would be a poor material for an LED light.


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## DM51 (Jun 29, 2008)

*Re: Any LED lights made out of Tungsten?*

Merging similar threads.


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## NetGod3Com (Jul 23, 2008)

I own a tungsten carbide bracelet that I got from xtreme jewelers, about a month ago while on vacation it spilled off of the bathroom vanity onto the tile floor and 3 links shattered, we are talking a 3 foot drop. Xtreme was very good about it and replaced the links, just cost me shipping one way.


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## wquiles (Jul 23, 2008)

NetGod3Com said:


> I own a tungsten carbide bracelet that I got from xtreme jewelers, about a month ago while on vacation it spilled off of the bathroom vanity onto the tile floor and 3 links shattered, we are talking a 3 foot drop. Xtreme was very good about it and replaced the links, just cost me shipping one way.



I believe it - TC is hard, but also brittle. So far I have been lucky that my TC wedding band still looks brand new after almost two years of use


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## precisionworks (Jul 23, 2008)

In metals, hardness & toughness are in inverse proportion. Even in carbide inserts, the toughest (most shock resisting) are the least hard. The harder ones, like ceramics, are less durable - though that is beginning to change with better ceramic substrates & more advanced coatings.


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## DM51 (Jul 23, 2008)

NetGod3Com, I sent you a PM. Please respond to it.


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## RyanA (Jul 23, 2008)

A really strong ring might be a bad thing. If it snags on something the wearer could wind up stripping all the skin off their finger, like a wire:green:. It's pretty rare and it occurs mostly in the rough carpentry professions. But the consequences, however rare, are enough to warrant precaution. Many carpenters have their rings strategically weakened with three shallow cuts on the inside of the ring.


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## wquiles (Jul 23, 2008)

Yep, good point. In fact, my father (before retiring) worked on a chemical factory and they used to work/clean huge containers - none of them were allowed to wear "any" jewelery while doing certain tasks/jobs for the same reasons you state. In fact, in some areas of the factory men were not allowed to even have a beard, since it could interfere with the emergency breathing equipment - safety first


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## RyanA (Jul 23, 2008)

Oh yeah, just the thought of it makes my toes curl.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 25, 2008)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Titan is abrasion resistant but it is a soft metal. Most steels are harder than Ti, now Tungstein are in a whole different league of metals.



Are there many lights made with Stainless Steel? 

Reason I ask in this post is the three I have from erin's sale here (SS-304)....2 years later still show no sign of any scratches when I look with magnifying loop. I also wondered how the hardness/durability compares to quality HA work like on my SF L2 just in terms of surfaces.


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## RyanA (Jul 25, 2008)

Holy modified maglites LUX! Are those stainless fenixs?


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 25, 2008)

Jetbeam clones.


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## RyanA (Jul 26, 2008)

Even so, NICE:twothumbs


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## Marduke (Jul 27, 2008)

I did a mini-review on a stainless LOD clone
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/203412


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## thermal guy (Jul 27, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> Why not just machine the EDC tube/head from titanium alloy, then coat it with tungsten carbide? That should be almost exactly as strong as an all-tungsten unit, and keeps the scratch-resistance, but would be notably lighter..



Thats what i would do I'm a thermal spray operator and have sprayed all types of metals and ceramic including tungsten.We spray a coating of .010-.020 thick and then finish grind the end result is harder then hell! But it's not cheap


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 28, 2008)

Marduke said:


> I did a mini-review on a stainless LOD clone
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/203412




Good review, but nothing about the main question of Stainless Steel that I was wondering about.


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## VanIsleDSM (Jul 29, 2008)

Stainless is a great material to make a flashlight. It's generally harder than titanium, depending on the grade, and it conducts heat and electricity twice as well. Not quite as corrosion resistant though, but add a hard chrome job and you have the hardest, toughest light around, put Ti to shame, and suck the heat out of the LED much better too.


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## Marduke (Jul 29, 2008)

I should mention that the above SS light I linked is most likely [SIZE=-1]austenitic stainless steel
[/SIZE]


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## DM51 (Jul 29, 2008)

There's an excellent thread by PhotonFanatic about a SS light he made.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 30, 2008)

Really great feedback, and seeing how well my Jetbeam clone SS's have held up, that would be a great choice if I ever had one of the masters make me a "one of" light....especially if I could get a superb LED and had it chromed like Van said.

Marduke, I don't know what "austenitic" SS means, but Photon Fanatic says he used 316 SS, and mine were made with 304. Quick review of hopefully accurate Wiki link says his 316 adds Molybdenum for better corrosion protection.


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