# Help choosing a semi-custom folder



## AvroArrow (Aug 28, 2008)

Hi all,

I'm pretty much a complete knife noob and I'd like to jump into the middle/deep end on my first attempt for an EDC knife. All you people with your awesome knife & lights pics have pushed me over the edge. And I figure I'll get some resonable response here asking for "which knife should I buy".  I've narrowed down my choices to the following:

Strider SnG Gen6 Spearpoint
Rick Hinderer XM-18
Rick Hinderer XM-18 3"
Chris Reeve Sebenza 21 Small
Chris Reeve Sebenza 21 Large

One thing that suprised me was the size of the larger knives I listed. I didn't realize how big they were until I started looking up their specs. The only sort-of knife I own is a Leatherman SuperTool and the larger ones are all bigger than that. That's why I listed the small Sebenza and 3" XM-18 in my list, I think those would fit my medium sized hands better.

Another question I have is how grippy and comfortable are the Sebenzas? The very rectangular and flat handle shape make them seem like they'd be really slippery when wet. The XM-18s look like they'd be the most comfortable and grippy, wet or dry. The fatter and more angular bottom of the SnG makes it look not all that comfortable to hold. 

Any recommendations on which one to get from the more experienced knife owners here? Should I even start at this level for buying a knife? I figure it's like this, if I get a really good blade from the start, then I will not be easily tempted by the cheaper blades. Kind of like a newbie flashaholic buying a McGizmo Ti PD-S as his first flashlight so he can skip all the Fenix and even Surefire stuff.  

I'm actually leaning towards the XM-18, either the big one or the 3" one but those seem to be very rare and don't come up very often, even on the BST at bladeforums. And when they do come up, it's often at a significant premium. I'm bugeting $300-400 for this knife purchase so when those XM-18s show up at $600+... not really an option for me. I don't mind buying a decent used one if it's cheaper since I'll be EDCing it. I see SnGs on our own BST going for $300-ish from time to time. 

One more important thing... anyone know where I can get any of these in Canada? I know truenorthknives.com carries and has stock of the SnG, but not the XM-18 or Sebenzas. Anyone know of any other custom knife shops that are either in Canada or will ship to Canada for decent prices? I've read some horror stories of greedy Canadian Customs officials that confiscate nice folders because they say they can "flick it open using centrifugal force", which would technically make it a prohibited item and not permitted for import. That's why I'm asking if I can buy these in Canada so I can eliminate that risk. I've
also read of people asking the sellers to tighten down the pivot as much as possible to make it difficult to open, even when using the thumb studs, but that's not 100% automatic pass either. Buying a good knife in Canada seems a lot harder than a good flashlight.


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## HoopleHead (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: Help choosing a custom folder*

the XM-18 will be pretty hard to get, as im sure youre finding out. the flipper version may be problematic in customs, dunno. the others are pretty regularly available. so buy one of those now, as you continue to hunt for an XM-18 

what are you planning to use this for mostly, and what type of environment etc? i think your EDC requirements would dictate which knife youd want to go for.

the sebbie is more refined, yet still super solid and a good worker. i sold mine and regret it and will get another someday. i have an SnG now and its cool, but for regular EDC purposes (like im not in the jungle in the poop) you cant really go wrong with the sebenza. the SnG is pretty comfortable in the hand, especially when you choke up on them.

i think as your addiction is just starting and it sounds like you are pretty serious about it, at some point youll have a sebenza in your collection. so thats my suggestion  for a more work-oriented one, i suggest the micarta inlays which wear in nicely and are fine when wet. feels great in the hand, like i said you really cant go wrong with it and will truly appreciate it once its in your hands and you begin comparing it to all others.

good luck!


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## adamlau (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: Help choosing a custom folder*

I had an SnG Gen 6. Nice enough, but not nice enough for me to cherish. Get on the XM-18 waiting list. I have been told to expect my order to be complete sometime early next year  . The Sebenza (which sits in my dresser drawer doing nothing)? Wait until October for the production of the Umnumzaan, of which I have been also been placed on the waiting list. If you consider Strider and CRK to be McGizmo, consider what I consider the SureFire of folders: Emerson Knives. Or Kershaw, the Fenix of folders. Better yet, skip the folders altogether with the Polarion of blades: Scrap Yard/Swamp Rat/Busse. FYI, I rotate between a Swamp Rat Hairy Carry SE and a Busse Mean Street for EDC. Once you hold a serious fixed blade in your hand, folders will seem like toys  .


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## precisionworks (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: Help choosing a custom folder*



> how grippy and comfortable are the Sebenzas?


The Ti handles are bead blasted/sand blasted, which gives a good grip without the roughness of knurling or checkering. Comfort is more subjective, but the large Sebe fits my medium sized hand perfectly. The small one would be a fine choice as well, more for ease of carry.



> Should I even start at this level for buying a knife?


IMO, it is a nice place to start. All your picks are winners, and all will give years of service. If you find that your choice isn't perfect for you, there's a strong secondary market - you can test drive the knife & flip it on BST or eBay with almost no risk.

There are lots of knives in my collection, many more expensive than the Sebenza. But that's the one that goes in my pocket when there isn't room for the Leatherman TTi.


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## AvroArrow (Aug 29, 2008)

*HoopleHead,*
Yes, it seems that the XM-18s are very hard to get and the Flipper version is pretty much a no-go for importing into Canada. But they look so nice.  As for actual use, it will mainly be used for cutting open server boxes, zip ties, network cables, and other innocuous things since I'm a Network Admin. I won't be trudging through the jungle or desert either. But having a knife can be handy in other situations... like being stuck in an elevator with no prying tools... and my Leatherman ST was in my work bag... at my desk. I know knife blades aren't really meant to pry things, but when you're stuck in a pinch, every little advantage helps. And it'll be useful whenever I get around to going camping outdoors. I like your suggestion about the Sebenza with Micarta inlays, should help add grip. 

*adamlau,*
What waiting list? I see Plaza Cutlery taking a sort of pre-order list for XM-18s... expected in 2009. Or does Rick still directly take orders and adds you to a waiting list? And what's the difference between the Umnumzaan and a large Sebenza? To my untrained eyes, it looks like a Sebenza with a slightly different profile on the top of the handles and a cross hatch pattern cut into it. And the pivot screw thing looks different. :shrug: Want to sell me your "sitting there doing nothing" Sebenza for cheap?  

And I only really consider the Hinderer to be the equivalent to a McGizmo. From what I gather, the Strider and CRK are in sort of a gray area, sort of semi-custom, but made in larger quantities, yet not a full blown factory production like Spyderco or Emerson. Maybe like an Aleph or TnC equivalent? :shrug: 

BTW, your pic of your Swamp Rat Crash Axe looks wicked. :thumbsup: Makes me want to get one... if I can ever figure out how to buy from them. Even though I'll have absolutely no use for it, it looks really cool to have around the house.  

*precisionworks,*
I do like the look of the plain Sebenza, makes it look more like a "gentlemen's knife" versus a tactical folder like my other 2 choices. I'd really need to try holding one. On paper, the large Sebenza seems really large and the small Sebenza looks just right. But from others I've read that the small Sebenza was smaller than it seems. Ugh... I don't want to buy both... correction, I can't afford to buy both. Thanks for your thoughts. I tried picking knives that were really good so I can avoid wasting money buying the cheaper stuff and flipping them later to upgrade to what I'd really want in the first place.


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## AMRaider (Aug 29, 2008)

I cannot speak for the other knives as I have not handled them, but Chris Reeve's Sebenzas are excellent. Actually, they are beyond excellent. The small Sebenza is probably my favorite folder. Perfect form, function, and finish, as well as top grade materials (Grade 5 Ti handles, 303 stainless hardware, phosphor bronze washers, and Crucible's S30V @ RC 58-59 for the blade). Chris Reeve manufactures his knives to very close tolerances; everything on the knife will line up perfectly. 

I have medium small hands, and I find the small Seb is perfect for EDC. I have NOT handled the large Seb, but I do own knives of similar size and weight. At 3 oz. the small is more pocket friendly, especially if your pants are made of thinner fabric. The ball detent (Silicon Nitride iirc) is very solid. I can't open my small Seb by flicking my wrist. (For what it's worth, I'm a badminton fanatic, so I probably have stronger than average wrists.) I have not tried, but the heavier blade on the large Seb might be easier to flick open with your wrist...

Anyway, that's about all I have. Cheers!


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## JohnnyDeep (Aug 29, 2008)

I have them all on your list. My favorites are the the small Sebenza's and Rick's XM-18, prefer the non-flipper. Rides better in the pocket and only a few milliseconds slower to open. If I had to own only one folder it would be the 3.5" XM-18 without flipper, but you can't go wrong with any of these.
For hard outdoor use I carry my Strider SmF and SnG's.


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## Chronos (Aug 29, 2008)

I've owned most and handled all in your list. All on your list will far exceed your requirements.

The XM-18 gens I and II are true customs. Every part custom made. The Gen IIIs have blades that are profiled by a third-party. More of a semi-custom, but the fit and finish are outstanding. They are a bargain at their list price.

My current XM-18 flipper is by far the most comfortable in my (large) hands. Another nice feature of the flipper is that when blade is extended. the flipper acts as an effective finger stop. Get on a waiting list now. They are that good.

The Striders are brutes by comparison. The SnG and the XM-18 are comparable in size, but the XM-18 is heavier. The blades are the same length and width. Do a search and you'll find some side-by-side pics I did. The Striders aren't as comfortable, yet seem capable of cutting through an Abrams tank. They will never let you down.

The Sebenzas are also rugged as Hell, but slightly more dignified. Not nearly as aggressive as the Striders, not nearly as rugged as the XM-18, but a true tactical knife that could spend its life in the Afghanistan desert serving our brothers and sisters in arms. Their packaging is smaller, so they don't fit quite as comfortably in my hands.

I prefer the Strider SMF series folders vs. the SnG due to size. The SMFs fit perfectly in my hands. The XM-18 is a wonder.

I hope this helps! You cannot go wrong with any of your choices. My preference list (personal selection _only_) is:

Hinderer XM-18
Strider SMF
Strider SnG
Sebenza


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## AvroArrow (Aug 29, 2008)

*AMRaider,*
Looks like you really like your small Sebenza.  I just found your FS thread in MP and it looks like you just sold your last one last night in like 2 hours. Augh.... :sigh: and you were willing to ship to Canada too... double augh.... 

*JohnnyDeep*
Nice to see someone who owns all of them. I think I am now leaning towards your favorites, get a small Sebenza now and put my name on the list for a 3.5" XM-18 non-flipper for sometime next year, which by then I should have enough to buy the XM-18. Staying true to the CPF motto to _"buy both"_. 

*Chronos*
This is actually all your fault you know. It was your great looking picture of a tan colored SnG w/Tanto tiger-striped blade that got me interested in knives. It looked sooo cool. Then the picture of the cranberry colored XM-18 flipper got me onto the Hinderers. Good thing you didn't post a picture of a Sebenza too. Otherwise I would have gone . 

I agree with your opinions on the knives too. The vibe I get from the SnG is of something that's very rugged and brute force kind of knife that could cut through anything. The XM-18 seems like a slighty more toned down and ergonomic version of the SnG, but just as tough. The Sebenza definitely looks more like a gentleman's knife compared to the other 2 but is no slouch either.

Thanks all for your opinions and recommendations so far. It's really helped me get a better idea of what I want to get. Right now, I'm leaning towards getting a small Sebenza with Micarta inlays and maybe double thumbstuds, or maybe just a plain small Sebenza if price and availability are more favorable. New or used doesn't matter since I'm going to be using it as an EDC anyway, this will not be a shelf/safe-queen. And I'll be looking at getting my name on a waiting list somewhere to get a blue 3.5" XM-18 non-flipper sometime in 2009. That's the plan anyway. If anyone has any more opinions or advice, please feel free to chime in. Like I said, I'm a knife noob so there's still a lot I have to learn about the knife hobby.


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## HoopleHead (Aug 30, 2008)

Chronos is at fault for a lot of my purchases too  Chronos and souptree are usually the ones posting the stuff i drool the most over!

a sebbie now with an XM-18 later sounds good. and if you need something to fill the time in between those 2, then go for the strider then 

lots of places you can get sebenzas at "retail" but you should definitely hunt around different forums sale threads, they come up fairly often.


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## TKC (Aug 30, 2008)

*Good luck finding a CUSTOM XM-18. They CAN be found though. My CRK Umnumzaan shipped out on Friday!! The Sebenza IS an excellent knife, one of mine is in my pocket as I type this. I say get a Sebenza, and then hunt for an XM-18. :thumbsup: *


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## iTorch (Aug 31, 2008)

Hmm, maybe you should also look at the Emmersons and the Zero Tolerance line, the ZT0301 is as tough as bricks and the waved Emersons are built to last - at least the reviews seesm to think so, not as pricey as an XM18, amd more available but I doubt they will let you down.


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## carrot (Sep 1, 2008)

I'll be one of the few people to try to dissuade you from getting a high end production or semi-custom folder as your first knife. I had a huge post typed up but due to a Server Busy message (thanks CPF!) I (and you) lost a great deal of information. I apologize if I'm coming out a bit less comprehendible than normal but it is late and I was about to go to bed before my post disappeared into the ether.

Here's why: you won't appreciate it nearly as much unless you've spent time with a lower-end knife. Pick up a $60-ish range knife, like a Spyderco Delica or Benchmade Mini-Griptilian, or their respective larger siblilngs the Endura and Griptilian (or the awesome slim little 530), or any number of Kershaws in that range. Use it, make mistakes with it, and learn how to safely (ab)use your knife. Learn how to sharpen, how to pry light things without damaging the tip, how to cut things without damaging the edge. Heck if you really want, jump right in and buy a $150 knife, like a Spyderco Military or Benchmade 710 or Spyderco Caly3 CF/ZDP or Stretch 2.

When you feel really confident in your knife owning skills, then it's time to treat yourself. But before that, you won't be able to appreciate a fancy expensive knife nearly as much. Just like a McGizmo vs. a Surefire, the difference between a $150 knife and a $300 knife is subtle and less tangible and in the finer more technical points. Both are fine, excellent and well made premium tools. But one is twice as much and has much less to show for it, although still quite worth it.

If I haven't managed to dissuade you from jumping right in and getting a really nice production or semi-custom, let me steer you towards the Small Sebenza. It's mostly agreed that there's nothing the Large can do much better than the Small, and the Small is a handful of knife and slips almost unnoticed into a pocket. Unless you have really big hands (mine are fairly big) the Small Sebenza should suit you great. It is like a fixed blade when it is locked open and practically unnoticeable when it is closed in your pocket.

I think the Sebenza is a better choice than the other two you mentioned because the SnG is something you really aught to handle before you buy it (because it's a love it or hate it thing... I did NOT like it when I got to play with one but a lot of people DO like it... I liked the smoother and smaller PT-CC far more), and the XM-18 is extremely hard to find due to high demand and low production. And except for heavy prying and doing other "stupid" (depends on who you ask) non-knife things (things Seb owners say are in the realm of prybars and crowbars and hammers, not knives), there is nothing the Sebenza can't handle that the XM-18 or SnG can.


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## carrot (Sep 1, 2008)

FWIW, TNK does in fact carry the Sebenza.
http://truenorthknives.com/tnk_gallery_p_bybrand3.htm#chrisreeve


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## schiesz (Sep 1, 2008)

My suggestion would somewhat mirror carrot's. Get some decent knives with high quality steel (Benchmade grip or mini grip, Spyderco Native, etc...) before you jump to a sebenza or hinderer. 

Having said that, if you really want to get the higher class of knife right off, go for it. Its not going to be any LESS great just because you haven't tried any of the lesser ones. 

I've had a few sebenza's, and really like the smalls for daily pocket carry and the large for pocket clip duty on weekends. My current favorite is a small micarta.

Have fun!


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## AvroArrow (Sep 2, 2008)

*carrot,*
I've had that happen to me too, so what I do now is that if I'm typing more than 5 lines of text, I usually do a copy & paste of what I'm typing into Notepad and then click the Submit Reply button, so if I get a Server Busy or timed out message, I can just copy & paste what I have in the Notepad window back into my browser. I've saved quite a few lengthy posts this way.

Thanks for your advice. I totally see where you're coming from and you do make a very good point. I would appreciate a small Sebenza if I got one now, but I probably wouldn't be able to _really_ appreciate it as much versus if I had started off with something cheaper as a beater, like a Spyderco Delica4 or Native. And (ab)use it, carry it, sharpen it, etc. like you said to get to know a decent folding knife and see where the refinement and attention to detail as well as the quality of materials that would differentiate a Sebenza from a Spyderco Delica. It took me 3.5 years on here to go from a minimag w/Lambda SMD+ drop-in to a Ti PD-S and let me tell you, I think I was able to fully appreciate the PD-S when I got it.  And there's a really good local knife shop carries the full line of Sypdercos, Emersons, ZTs, etc at decent prices so I may have to pick up a Delica on my way home from work.  Too bad they don't carry any customs/semi-customs like the CRKs or Striders.

And thanks for that link to TNK. I had actually checked their site a couple days before making my original post and there were no CRKs on the site, but now there's a whole truckload of them. I may have to get that small Classic Sebenza w/Micarta inlays & double thumbstuds while he still has them in stock. The piece of mind from not having to worry about sticky fingers at Canada Customs is worth paying full retail for it. And I'll just put it away while I EDC and beat up a Delica and then switch over to the Sebenza after I get some more experience owning and using a decent knife.

*schiesz,*
Thanks for the input. I think I am going to go with carrot's suggestion and get a Delica to beat up first, then switch over to a Sebenza later. Another nice thing is that on paper, the Delica4 looks like it's the same size as the small Sebenza so I'll get a feel for that size of knife.


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## adamlau (Sep 2, 2008)

One reason why a lot of us knife junkies have so many blades is because we compromised our choices in the beginning. Justifications here, justification there, happens all too often. You want a Sebbie, get a Sebbie and beat up on it instead. You will not learn to appreciate the fit, finish and ability of a knife more by buying a lesser one first.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 3, 2008)

carrot said:


> I'll be one of the few people to try to dissuade you from getting a high end production or semi-custom folder as your first knife. I had a huge post typed up but due to a Server Busy message (thanks CPF!) I (and you) lost a great deal of information. I apologize if I'm coming out a bit less comprehendible than normal but it is late and I was about to go to bed before my post disappeared into the ether.
> 
> Here's why: you won't appreciate it nearly as much unless you've spent time with a lower-end knife. Pick up a $60-ish range knife, like a Spyderco Delica or Benchmade Mini-Griptilian, or their respective larger siblilngs the Endura and Griptilian (or the awesome slim little 530), or any number of Kershaws in that range. Use it, make mistakes with it, and learn how to safely (ab)use your knife. Learn how to sharpen, how to pry light things without damaging the tip, how to cut things without damaging the edge. Heck if you really want, jump right in and buy a $150 knife, like a Spyderco Military or Benchmade 710 or Spyderco Caly3 CF/ZDP or Stretch 2.
> 
> ...


+1 

Great post!

I just don't understand why would anyone -- aside from collection purposes -- buy Strider folders when you can buy a *Zero Tolerance* (like the ZT0300 series) made with the exact same materials and designed by the same people, for half the price?


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## precisionworks (Sep 12, 2008)

> You want a Sebbie, get a Sebbie and beat up on it instead.


+1

The Sebenza reminds me of Case Tested XX knives from the 1940's. Best materials, hand fitted, bank vault solid. A Small Sebbie costs $329, while a 1940's Tested XX folder (same size) is nearly $700.

The Sebenza, small or large, represents solid value for the money. Buy the small one, which will probably be my next knife as my large Sebbie is sometimes a little big. You won't regret that purchase, but if you do, I'll buy it for what you paid for it.

This YouTube video may help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GN9nN1wnD8


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