# Latest Surefire M6 option?



## dizzy (Mar 25, 2014)

I've been away for quite some time and the time has come for me to get back into the flashlight hobby again. Looking at my moderate collection of lights I acquired nearly 8-10 years ago, I am interested in "updating" my M6. Either by upgrading the battery options, or installing the latest and greatest LED module, or combination of the two.

Without doing any searching so far, maybe some of you "new" guys, or old timer's, can steer me in the right direction as to what is out there currently. Long, long, ago, I was a victim of the infamous Andrew Wynn Rouse scandal and I never pursued anything after that, as far as making my M6 more usable. Any help would be appreciated.


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## m4a1usr (Mar 25, 2014)

My first suggestion would be to get a FM extended tail cap with a 26650 battery adapter. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?266142-M6-Deep-Tail-Cap-2x26500

That takes you into lithium ion batteries like the 26500 or 18500 series right off the bat. Then research KT-4 drop in's like the Malkoff MD60, Shrike, Nailbender or my versions. LED drop in's taking Lumens to another level for the same power of incandescents.


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## MBentz (Mar 25, 2014)

Can you link or PM with the 26650 battery adapter, as well as the Shrike and your tower module?


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## m4a1usr (Mar 25, 2014)

MBentz said:


> Can you link or PM with the 26650 battery adapter, as well as the Shrike and your tower module?



The tailcap extender thread of FM has the battery adapters too. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?266142-M6-Deep-Tail-Cap-2x26500 Shirike has a WTS ad in the CPF for sale forum. I don't have mine listed yet since I am still playing with LED colors. I just got in some XML2 T5 in 4200k since I hate the color of the XLM T6 in 6000k. Too greenish in my SF KT-4 when installed. But even Malkoff warns of color shift.

From their web page:

*ATTENTION: It has come to our attention that some stock SureFire heads impart a warmer tint to the light output. In some cases this may lean to the slightly green direction. If this is unacceptable to you. Please do not purchase this dropin.*


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## archimedes (Mar 25, 2014)

Yes, Malkoff MD60 (for LED) & *wquiles* PhD-M6 battery pack + *fivemega* bipin adapter (for incandescent) are worth a look ... 

The *LED Zeppelin* M-Zeppelin M6 mods would be the grail, I suppose


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## MBentz (Mar 25, 2014)

Using Google search I am unable to find Shrike's WTS ad over at CPFMP. The PhD pack is no longer available, and I don't think the bipin adapter is as well. It seems the only option available right now is the fivemega longer tail cap.


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## archimedes (Mar 25, 2014)

MBentz said:


> Using Google search I am unable to find Shrike's WTS ad over at CPFMP. The PhD pack is no longer available, and I don't think the bipin adapter is as well. It seems the only option available right now is the fivemega longer tail cap.



Neither are the "M-Zep"s ... :sigh:


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## MBentz (Mar 25, 2014)

Guess I'll wait to see what M4A1 is making. I had an MD60 for a SureFire M4 but didn't care for the tint.


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## m4a1usr (Mar 25, 2014)

MBentz said:


> Guess I'll wait to see what M4A1 is making. I had an MD60 for a SureFire M4 but didn't care for the tint.



Jason has a couple of Nailbender modules. Cheaper than I plan on selling them for. Here's the ad. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?380720 KT4-LED-Tower-Modules-Download-SST50-18650 If they are not your cup of tea give me another month or 2 to get the color right. I have the LED tower design down perfectly. It's the darn LED tint that stinks for now.


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## MBentz (Mar 25, 2014)

m4a1usr said:


> Jason has a couple of Nailbender modules. Cheaper than I plan on selling them for. Here's the ad. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?380720 KT4-LED-Tower-Modules-Download-SST50-18650 If they are not your cup of tea give me another month or 2 to get the color right. I have the LED tower design down perfectly. It's the darn LED tint that stinks for now.



Thanks for the heads up. Cool white... I can wait.


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## GrizzlyAdams (Mar 26, 2014)

not to derail the thread...but who is Andrew Rouse? A search didn't turn up much.


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## RedLED (Mar 26, 2014)

GrizzlyAdams said:


> not to derail the thread...but who is Andrew Rouse? A search didn't turn up much.



Yes, please tell us of this scandal!


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## cland72 (Mar 26, 2014)

wquiles PhD-M6 battery pack would be the ultimate upgrade, but a 2x18650 battery holder would be a close second. I think the M6 really works best when used with the stock incan lamp assemblies. If you convert it to LED, you're losing a lot of the throw.


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## Echo63 (Mar 26, 2014)

GrizzlyAdams said:


> not to derail the thread...but who is Andrew Rouse? A search didn't turn up much.


From memory he designed a doohickey, took lots of peoples money and never supplied the doohickey to the people who's money he took.

maybe searching using AWR instead of Andrew Rouse will bring up more posts (cheers and jeers over at the MP might have something too - EDIT - hall of shame over at CPFMP has a few threads on the AWR saga)

it was a long time ago, and something i didnt pay too much attention too at the time.


as for the M6 - i am still running an incan solution - Lumensfactory IMR or HO M3T bulbs with a 2x18650 adapter and a pair of AW 2600mah cells.
i also have a Lumensfactory P7 M head - slightly smaller and a bit heavier than the stock Millenium Turbohead - with a 700ish lumen coolwhite P7 led in the front - not a bad performer, but i prefer the colour rendition of the incan beam


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## MBentz (Mar 26, 2014)

cland72 said:


> wquiles PhD-M6 battery pack would be the ultimate upgrade, but a 2x18650 battery holder would be a close second. I think the M6 really works best when used with the stock incan lamp assemblies. If you convert it to LED, you're losing a lot of the throw.



I agree. I put up a thread at CPFMP in the WTB section. Ideally I'd like to use two 18650s and I'm definitely not converting it to LED. That's blasphemous.


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## NotRegulated (Mar 26, 2014)

I would second the advice of cland72 and Echo63...



Keep the M6 incandescent and power it with a 2x18650 adapter. Use Lumensfactory EO M3T (450 Lumens) or HO M3T (380 Lumens) bulbs. This is what I use in my M6 as well.


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## MBentz (Mar 26, 2014)

That's the plan. Finding one someone is willing to part with is going to be a PITA though.


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## Echo63 (Mar 26, 2014)

MBentz said:


> That's the plan. Finding one someone is willing to part with is going to be a PITA though.


Post a WTB over in the Marketplace - that's how I found mine !

Or you could attempt to make one yourself - it's a pretty simple design, I'm sure a friend with a lathe/mill/3d printer could knock one up in their spare time if properly rewarded with beer


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## MBentz (Mar 26, 2014)

Already did that first part. Don't have any friends with that kind of machinery.


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## tobrien (Mar 27, 2014)

hunt down a wquiles PhD-M6. I did and it's the best thing I've ever done for my M6. it'll be expensive and hard to find, but completely worth it


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## MBentz (Mar 27, 2014)

tobrien said:


> hunt down a wquiles PhD-M6. I did and it's the best thing I've ever done for my M6. it'll be expensive and hard to find, but completely worth it



I don't need the PhD, the odd mod 2x18650 carrier would be best, but I'll most likely just get the first thing that becomes available.


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## dizzy (Mar 27, 2014)

Wow! Lots of replies and ideas, but I seem to have come back a little late to obtain the things I am looking for. I will see if I can get lucky and pick something up in the B/S/T thread. Thanks for all the help and interest in my quest for a better M6.


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## MBentz (Mar 27, 2014)

dizzy said:


> Wow! Lots of replies and ideas, but I seem to have come back a little late to obtain the things I am looking for. I will see if I can get lucky and pick something up in the B/S/T thread. Thanks for all the help and interest in my quest for a better M6.



I just bought a 10mm longer tail cap from fivemega in the BST section. It allows the use of two 26500 batteries. It should hold me over until I find something else. You may want to give it a look.


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## m4a1usr (Mar 27, 2014)

MBentz said:


> I just bought a 10mm longer tail cap from fivemega in the BST section. It allows the use of two 26500 batteries. It should hold me over until I find something else. You may want to give it a look.



It should come with a 26500 adapter. I know when I purchased mine it did. With all the comments about sticking with incandescents I warn you against using Lith-ion cells and a MN60 lamp. Do some research! There have been several posts where the bulb exploded inside the KT4 head and ruined it. That's the whole reason for LED drop in's. Using Lithium cells and incandescents is a proven recipe for disaster waiting. At least get a soft start switch. Someone took the time to figure the problem out. With out all the cheap talk here its obvious some have no knowledge of past known problems.


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## MBentz (Mar 28, 2014)

I plan on using bulbs from Lumens Factory.


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## fivemega (Mar 28, 2014)

*This is an old thread but very helpful.*


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## MBentz (Mar 28, 2014)

fivemega said:


> *This is an old thread but very helpful.*



Yeah, I've gone through that thread numerous times.

Care to bring back your bipin adapter?


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## dizzy (Apr 1, 2014)

I think I just discovered an awesome configuration! I have some cell's on order and will post my findings when they come in and I know that it works. Stay tuned!!!! 

Just as a little hint... It involves a part that was developed during the AWR fiasco, which was made by another member, and shipped to ME instead of Andrew. Can't wait to see if it works out!


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## dizzy (Apr 9, 2014)

Well, everything fits together nicely, but for some reason I'm not getting a connection at the tailcap. If I put my meter leads from the battery to the light body, the lamp lights and I'm reading around 5 amps of current. When I put the tailcup directly on the battery negative and the light body, I get nothing. What am I missing?


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## m4a1usr (Apr 9, 2014)

dizzy said:


> Well, everything fits together nicely, but for some reason I'm not getting a connection at the tailcap. If I put my meter leads from the battery to the light body, the lamp lights and I'm reading around 5 amps of current. When I put the tailcup directly on the battery negative and the light body, I get nothing. What am I missing?



Are you using the stock TC? Or a 5mega TC? I am having intermittent connectivity issues with the 5mega TC and my custom KT4 LED towers.


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## fivemega (Apr 9, 2014)

dizzy said:


> I'm reading around 5 amps of current. When I put the tailcup directly on the battery negative and the light body, I get nothing. What am I missing?


*1- What set up do you have? 
2- What kind of battery holder? 
3- How many cells? 
4- What chemistry?
5- Protected or not? 
6- What kind of bulb? 
7- What kind of tail switch?*
--------------------------


m4a1usr said:


> I am having intermittent connectivity issues with the 5mega TC and my custom KT4 LED towers.



*Then you should ask for help.*


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## dizzy (Apr 14, 2014)

1. My setup is an XTN extention piece and a shortened tailcup in the factory Surefire tailcap.
2. 1" PVC battery holder inside of stock M6 body.
3. two FourSevens 3.7v Li-ion 26650 4000mAh protected cells
4. OSRAM 35w 6v 64275 lamp in a modified factory lamp assembly
5. Factory M6 tailcap

One gold plated magnet between the cells for connectivity. Batteries are at 3.6 volts each, so as not to flash the lamp on startup, but it is quite dim compared to what it should be with 7.2 volts to the 6v lamp. Cells fit nice and snug with no rattling and cells slide out on their own without force.Thinking of lightly sanding the mating surfaces to make better connection. Any help is welcome.


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## Justin Case (Apr 14, 2014)

dizzy said:


> 1. My setup is an XTN extention piece and a shortened tailcup in the factory Surefire tailcap.
> 2. 1" PVC battery holder inside of stock M6 body.
> 3. two FourSevens 3.7v Li-ion 26650 4000mAh protected cells
> 4. OSRAM 35w 6v 64275 lamp in a modified factory lamp assembly
> ...



You are trying to run your light using cells that have close to zero state of charge.


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## tobrien (Apr 15, 2014)

Justin Case said:


> You are trying to run your light using cells that have close to zero state of charge.



he might be referring to the nominal voltage only and could have them charged, but idk


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## dizzy (Apr 16, 2014)

So what you are saying is to charge the cells to 4.2v and I won't flash the lamp?


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## Justin Case (Apr 16, 2014)

There is always some small but finite chance of flashing the lamp. I can't find specific discharge graph data for your 4Sevens 26650 cells, but others like Keeppower immediately sag to around 3.8V under the sort of load that a 64275 lamp would present (6.5A-7A). So, the lamp might see something like 7.6V on a cold start. Lux Luthor's tests suggest that the 64275 flashes at 8.1V. The caveat is that the flash voltage is for effectively a very slow, soft start since as I recall Lux manually turned his power supply knob from one voltage increment to the next.

But you should be safe since a real world flashlight circuit has other sources of parasitic resistance that will drop Vbulb even further below 8.1V.

The problem with using cells with resting voltage of 3.6V is that you won't have 3.6V when the cells are under load, especially a 6.5A-7A load. Between the near-dead cells and parasitic resistance, the lamp probably didn't get anywhere near the Vbulb needed to light up brightly.


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## tango70601 (May 16, 2014)

m4a1usr said:


> My first suggestion would be to get a FM extended tail cap with a 26650 battery adapter. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?266142-M6-Deep-Tail-Cap-2x26500
> .





What is output and runtime when used with the MN20 using FM's tailcap with 26650s? 

FM says the MN21 bulb should not be used. Why not? 

Are there solutions for running the MN21?


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## m4a1usr (May 16, 2014)

tango70601 said:


> What is output and runtime when used with the MN20 using FM's tailcap with 26650s?
> 
> FM says the MN21 bulb should not be used. Why not?
> 
> Are there solutions for running the MN21?



I cant tell you since I do not know. My comment was directed with a recomendation of possible choices since I do own those items. I quit using incandescents once I started collecting lights with the KT4 head. And after reading posts about the insta flash issue. Those heads/ bezels are not common to find and I can only remember seeing one reflector for the KT4 head on CPFMP in the last year or so. FM knows what he is talking about and would suspect he can answer your questions.


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