# WickedLasers: BlueRay Powered Handheld Laser



## Thujone (Nov 13, 2006)

here is the snippet, its $2000!!


> *Sonar™* is the world’s only Blu-ray™ powered laser designed to satisfy the desires of true laser enthusiasts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Link


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## idleprocess (Nov 13, 2006)

So it uses a blue laser diode rather than the complex arrangement of hand-aassembled and aligned frequency doublers and diode pumps like green and "conventional" blue laser pointers?

Why does it cost so much since using a diode cuts all that complexity (and cost) out of the equation? These should be cheaper than green laser pointers...


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 13, 2006)

Directly-injected blue diode lasers are still horrendously expen$ive; but the cost should decrease fairly rapidly if Blu-Ray-capable DVD players and Playstation 3 consoles take off.

405nm will appear as a bluish-violet color to the eye, and will not be as visible to the eye mW per mW as standard DPSS blue, green, and yellow lasers.

Here's a photograph of a laser like this in a Black Widow-type laser projector:


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## FloggedSynapse (Nov 13, 2006)

First off I think it's a 'Good Thing' that Wicked is now offering these new diodes in a pointer package. The pointer itself looks slick, nice aluminum body and all.

I can't blame Wicked for the cost either. The price on these Nichia violet LD's is still ludicrous. A lot of the cost is the simply because it's a new device and they are still working out the manufacturing glitches, but some of it is simply patent bullshit too.

Personally I would never spend 2K for this pointer. Perhaps 200... not $2000.00 

I like 'direct injection' laser diodes for their simplicity and efficiency. Unfortunately laser diodes are currently only available on either end of the visual spectrum - red and violet. To get colors in the heart of the visual spectrum (450-650 nm) one still has to use DPSS tech. There are many LEDs available (different colors) however unfortunately the same cannot be said for laser diodes. Most of the very expensive economic drivers for laser diodes came about because of CD/DVD players. From this technology they trickled down to pointers. Unfortunately I fear with the development of these violet laser diodes we may never see any laser diodes in the heart of the visual spectrum as the economic drivers for their development will not be there. Most manufacturers are only interested in violet as it allows them to cram for pits onto a disk (higher capacity).

These laser diodes (390-410 nm) are really violet, not blue. Apparently the spot usually appears white as most materials flouresce when hit with radiation at this freq. Blacklight laser. You could also spot-tan yourself with one of these lasers. Since the sensitivity of the eye is poor to these frequencies a 20 mW laser prolly will appear no brighter than a keychain red laser.

Geek stuff. Here's an interview with the lead developer (Nakamura) of these violet laser diodes (2000):
http://www.sciencewatch.com/jan-feb2000/sw_jan-feb2000_page4.htm

Here's an interesting link to an animation showing the various steps needed to create a laser violet diode. Unfortunately I found no way to link directly to the animation. 
So, click:
http://mrsec.wisc.edu/Edetc/SlideShow/index.html
Then, under 'topics' click on 'p-n junctions'. Then using the arrows (upper right) you'll have to click 21-22 times to the right. This will get you to a little quicktime animation (MOCVD) showing the various layers that have to be deposited to create on of these LD's. You can see the exquisite nano-scale control needed.

NICHIA laser diode specs:
http://www.nichia.co.jp/product/laser-main.html
(apparently Nichia is developing true blue laser diodes - 440-460 nm - i'm afraid to ask the cost tho)


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 13, 2006)

Directly-injected blue laser diodes at ~440nm cost ~$3,000.00 apiece; not including collimating lens, case, driver circuit, batteries, etc.


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## FloggedSynapse (Nov 13, 2006)

The_LED_Museum said:


> Directly-injected blue laser diodes at ~440nm cost ~$3,000.00 apiece; not including collimating lens, case, driver circuit, batteries, etc.



Ooof. Hopefully the cost on these will come down sometime before I grow old. Those prices tend to discourage any experimentation


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## Canuke (Nov 14, 2006)

FloggedSynapse said:


> I can't blame Wicked for the cost either. The price on these Nichia violet LD's is still ludicrous. A lot of the cost is the simply because it's a new device and they are still working out the manufacturing glitches, but some of it is simply patent bullshit too.



Well, in this case it's because Wicked is buying up blu-ray DVD players, removing the laser diode, then tossing the rest.

http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/06/11/13/2119259.shtml

While I understand the economics of it, and I'm not the sort who calls for legal suppression of other's choices that I don't like, that kind of wastage of the rest of the player sticks in my craw. I hope they at least sell 'em for parts or something.


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## YAG (Nov 14, 2006)

The 405nm diodes are VERY dim, they work better as a black light than a laser pointer.


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## Athoul (Nov 14, 2006)

Certain things flouresce inder near UV light, this is where this laser may find certain uses outside of the normal burning and pointing. At 20mW it's unlikely to burn through anything, though with a lens it should pop balloons etc.


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## Led_Blind (Nov 14, 2006)

What a waste of a blue ray drive....


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## allthatwhichis (Nov 14, 2006)

Led_Blind said:


> What a waste of a blue ray drive....


 
One man's...crap, waste, garbage, is another man's pimp ***, purdy laser for their laser projector... :lolsign: I ain't got near that much dough for lasers though...


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## Chief117 (Nov 14, 2006)

Wow, I'm impressed at the rate at which engineering is growing these days. That is one fantastic laser.

Just some advice to anyone who might order one, this is a new technology. That means that if you order it now you are going to be sending it back a few times before you get one that is bug-free, no matter who you order from.

IN CONCLUSION^^^Dont order until you are sure its perfect

Secondly, the prices are going to DROP DROP DROP. If I were you I would invest those 2000 junior bacon cheesburgers until the new PS3 comes out. The prices are probably going to be about a tenth of what they are now in a year or two.

IN CONCLUSION^^^Dont order it until the prices drop.


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## Corona (Nov 14, 2006)

Hmmm. Consider the quantum effect (shorter wavelegth = higher energy per photon). The formula for photon energy is

E = h c / l 

where h is Planck's constant, c is the velocity of the light, and l (lambda) is the wavelength of the light. Obviously a smaller (shorter) wavelength results in a correspondingly higher energy per photon, which basically means fewer photons per watt. 

So...20mW violet (it really is NOT "blue"!!) at 410nm represents about 25% _fewer photons_ than 20mW green at 532nm. Coupled with the well-known human eye response curve, YES it's by far better for finding scorpions in the dark at a distance than as a useful pointer in a lighted conference room. I seriously doubt if the back scatter is even visible - at night.

And I'm not so sure that 20mW violet won't pop a balloon, given the higher photon energy and theoretically smaller potential beam spot size, the energy density should be at least 30% higher, and probably much more than that.

What I'd like to see come down in price (and up in power) are 1064nm diodes - then our greenies would not need that big hungry 808nm pump and lossy Nd:YVO4 stage to get to 1064...instead direct doubling to 532, at about 50% conversion - now that would be a worthy advance. 

Not even gonna touch the WL / Blu-ray thang


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## bootleg2go (Nov 15, 2006)

Corona said:


> Hmmm. Consider the quantum effect (shorter wavelegth = higher energy per photon). The formula for photon energy is
> 
> E = h c / l
> 
> ...



Hi Corona,
I agree with the 1st portion of your post, but I'm not sure what you're saying in the second part.
Yes 405nm needs fewer photons to create 20mW. But power is Watts, 20mW of 405 is equal to 20mW of 532nm as far as burning power. It just that a 20mW 405nm is putting out fewer photons to create 20mW than a 532nm laser does to produce 20mW. So the burning power is equal provided the other parameters like beam diameter and divergence are the same.

Jack


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## badhorsey (Nov 15, 2006)

"Spacecraft-grade casing"... you really have to admire the hyperbole.

Fine if the spacecraft in question is an Imperial Star Destroyer... less so if it's the Challenger or Beagle II.


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 15, 2006)

Fine too if it's the Enerprise, less so if it's the Discovery.


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## allthatwhichis (Nov 15, 2006)

The_LED_Museum said:


> Fine too if it's the Enerprise, less so if it's the Discovery.


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## Athoul (Nov 16, 2006)

bootleg2go said:


> Hi Corona,
> I agree with the 1st portion of your post, but I'm not sure what you're saying in the second part.
> Yes 405nm needs fewer photons to create 20mW. But power is Watts, 20mW of 405 is equal to 20mW of 532nm as far as burning power. It just that a 20mW 405nm is putting out fewer photons to create 20mW than a 532nm laser does to produce 20mW. So the burning power is equal provided the other parameters like beam diameter and divergence are the same.
> 
> Jack



Yep 20mW out is 20mW out across the board. The only difference would be the level it could be focused, yeah you did cover your butt there just though I'd mention it. Also being near UV, it would likely be better at popping balloons due to transparent objects being more opague to that wavelength. I'd imagine it would be much easier to pop a dark semi-transparent balloon with a near UV laser then with a laser that is more securely in the visible spectrum.

These lasers would probably be of more interest to those that are experimenting with near UV light more then anything else. Similar to the audience that the UV Inova X5's etc draws I suppose, though more expensive.


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## allthatwhichis (Nov 18, 2006)

Sooooo... Who got a PS3 to take apart and snag this purdy diode out of? :huh2:  :lolsign:


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## Corona (Dec 1, 2006)

Yes I well understand that 20mW = 20mW. But the eye is a photon collector, not a thermionic power detector; the perceived brightness of a source of a given power is less dependant on the energy level of the photons as it is on the sheer quantity of them impinging on the retina. So even if the eye had a perfectly flat response of optical power input to optic nerve signal output from UV to IR, blue would STILL appear dimmer than green because there are less blue photons per watt for the retina to collect...

But the florescence effect of blue is higher than that of lower wavelengths, almost wholly due to the quantum effect. So green may appear much brighter to the eye, but it won't light up a scorpion in the desert at night :lol:

It's all academic, anyway - on a lighter note, I wonder how many PS3s and Blu-ray players Sony is going to receive at their global repair depot, only to find...something...missing :lol:

peace


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## SuperBert (Dec 3, 2006)

Very well said (and true)... even though you ruined it w/ the "peace" at the end.

As said before, this whole thing sort of seems like a publicity stunt to me. Though I truly admire their desire to stay on top of upcoming technology, it just seems like buying up all of the blu-ray players, something that at this moment in time isn't a "dime a dozen" just to get seen and blogged about is a bit overboard.

I must admit, I would like to see one in action (both in person and some pics too)...


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## Corona (Dec 5, 2006)

SuperBert said:


> Very well said (and true)... even though you ruined it w/ the "peace" at the end.


 Thanks...but...?? Just trying to keep it light (ugh...bad pun). I can try being _anti-nice_ and see where that takes it (but I've already seen enough of that "style" to know the ultimate outcome anyway).

I'd love to see a correlation between their sales volume and Sony's field return records


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## waspfarmer (Dec 7, 2006)

So that's one of those super-duper blue lasers with the limited spacecraft drains that you only have few of? Only $2,000 eh? Hmm...


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## jellyfish414 (Dec 8, 2006)

I'm surprised WL seems to focus so much on such seemingly outlandish segments of the market. How many people are there that want to buy a 20mw blue laser for $2000, especially when they know it comes from a disected DVD player?

I also don't understand why the 20mw Spyder blue laser is $500 more than the 20mw Sonar blu-ray laser. Anyone know the anwer to that?

So has anyone actually tried any of these blue lasers? I guess I just don't get the appeal. Not as bright as green... but much more expensive! So what's the point?


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## The_LED_Museum (Dec 8, 2006)

jellyfish414 said:


> ...I also don't understand why the 20mw Spyder blue laser is $500 more than the 20mw Sonar blu-ray laser. Anyone know the anwer to that?


I believe the Spyder is a DPSS laser emitting at 473nm, and the Sonar is a directly-injected laser emitting at ~405nm.
Therefore, the Spyder uses expensive crystals for frequency-doubling (much like a green DPSS laser) and doubles the 946nm line of neodymium - a very hard thing to achieve since the 1064nm and 1319nm lines will try to compete with the 946nm line, stealing energy. On top of that, the 946nm line is self-absorbing making the device a lot trickier to generate.

This is why the Spyder is more expensive than the Sonar; given the same power output (20mW in this case).


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## jkaiser3000 (Dec 8, 2006)

Those blue diodes are a lot trickier to work with than the standard red/IR diodes. They are more sensitive to overvoltage, overcurrent and ESD . I expect some time went into designing the driverboard for those diodes, so as to prevent them from dieing. During that time, I'm pretty sure some diodes went to heaven. When you consider the costs of the DVD unit, the diodes killed, the machining for the case, the profits, etc, etc, I can see why these pointers are so expensive.

Still, pretty expensive for me :touche:


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## The_LED_Museum (Dec 18, 2006)

I used the "Contact Us" form on their website this afternoon regarding getting a sample of the Sonar for evaluation on my website - either as a "loaner" or a "keeper" with compensation for it being a banner on my website for two years (I normally charge $1,000.00 a year for banner ad space).

I haven't heard anything yet, but it's still early in the game.
If I do get a "yes", I'll post in this thread, and post my evaluation of it when it is in publishable condition...and since lasers get their final "star" rating quite quickly, the wait for the product's final rating will be up within a few days of the evaluation being published.


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## allthatwhichis (Dec 19, 2006)

I will pray for you!


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## The_LED_Museum (Dec 19, 2006)

I heard back this morning, and the answer is yes **BUT** I'll need to pay a $250 deposit for a loaner unit...only trouble is, I don't have the $250. :shakehead:  :shakehead:
I have ~$120, and it has to last until early-January.

So, I guess there will be no evaluation of a Blu-Ray laser on CPF - not from me anyway.  :shakehead:


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## allthatwhichis (Dec 19, 2006)

We could get a lil pitch in goin. :thinking: Maybe after the new year. Since it's only a deposit we'll all get it back. Maybe get one of Spec's units to compare it with. I'm down to pitch in $20, $25 for a few weeks, maybe a month or two.  

Just a thought.


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## winny (Dec 19, 2006)

I'll lend you $50 if you want to...


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## luvlasers (Dec 20, 2006)

I wonder, if you pay extra for the shipping, will wicked ship you the rest of the dvd player?

That way when your not using the laser, you can put the diode back in the dvd player (forget the trouble this would involve) and play dvd's. 

Two for the price of one, Nice deal!


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## ajohnson (Dec 25, 2006)

How come no one has done this with an xbox 360 external HD-DVD?


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## allthatwhichis (Dec 25, 2006)

ajohnson said:


> How come no one has done this with an xbox 360 external HD-DVD?


The diodes aren't powerful enough. A few milliwatts at best from what I hear. You need to get the burner to get enough power to make it worth while. I think the readers get around 2 to 5mW the burners get close to 30mW. I think spec's is around 25mW. :thinking:


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## danielrigano (Jul 9, 2008)

Here is the blue laser pointer.


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## Kenom (Jul 9, 2008)

Ya know there are cheaper methods of getting bluray diodes than a ps3 sled. There are currently HD xbox sleds that can be found that can net you 150mw of bluray beauty. Or you can extract a diode from a 6x bluray burner drive and get up to 200mw. I have built 10 bluray lasers ranging in the power levels of 50mw-150mw all for roughly $200-$400 in my Kryton laser barrels. The bluray laser in the video's is a 90mw bluray.











http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1379409/blu_ray_laser_spyrograph


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## Patriot (Jul 9, 2008)

danielrigano said:


> Here is the blue laser pointer.




Those are terribly expensive for what they are..... Are these yours and are you promoting them here Daniel?


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## daguin (Jul 10, 2008)

I build and sell 405nm hand held lasers in the 140mW-160mW range. I sell them for $200 - $350. 

My personal blu-ray laser puts out 180mW.

Peace,
dave


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