# Isn't a AA right-angle light (or headlamp) the most versatile light you can have?



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 10, 2016)

Especially as a survival light? I have a AA ZebraLight H51C (Luxeon Rebel high CRI) and after really using it, I can't see too many advantages anymore to carrying a regular flashlight except for special purposes only (say a tac light).







For work:

-- Small and fits in the palm of your hand (or on top of your head, or clipped to a pocket or belt)
-- Takes the most ubiquitous available battery type in the world
-- The right-angle and small size allows it to hold comfortably between the thumb and index
-- Thumb and fingers are free to hold tools, implements, devices, etc.; the right-angle output conveniently orients towards the work at hand
-- Today's LED's allow for good output.

Let's say you are choosing your loadouts for some unknown destination and one of the requirements is keeping a bare minimum of equipment in mind. I'm thinking I'd probably be served MUCH BETTER carrying two AA right-angle lights (and a few spare 14500 lithiums) vs a single 18650 light and its spare 18650 lithiums.

Two lights are better than one and the AA factor is a win.

Thoughts?


----------



## Kamerat (Oct 10, 2016)

The H52Fw is a favorite of mine - and you describe why. However, on my keys, the search light, the tactical light and P60 lights are also "needed"...


----------



## Str8stroke (Oct 10, 2016)

They are nice. I often carry a Right Angle light. Very handy, or should I say hands free. Well truth be told, they are horrible for the old Mouth Hold. Otherwise, I think this style light is on the Must Own list.


----------



## bykfixer (Oct 10, 2016)

Right angle lights are cool! 

I like the kind that rotate to a straight light or something in between as well. 
Now that's versatile.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 10, 2016)

I feel the same way about AA angle head lights, particularly after having had an H51Fw; but the power density, and the available intensity of light from 18650 powered H600w has permanently swayed me. 
I still appreciate the AA for its availability, but now AA serves a backup role in a second light for me. 
-and AAA likewise as a third, even more convenient and light weight backup.

AA twisty used to be a neck light, but the weight and bulk were noticeable. Now it's a camp/utility light that will typically get hung from a ridge line while camping and provide hours of low level ambient, down facing light by a campfire. 
The AAA twisty is now the neck light, I basically forget is there when not in use, and no one else notices it. It gets used often, everyday, but rarely for more than a few minutes at a time. 

I don't carry a spare AAA eneloop day to day, or a spare 18650. I end up swapping them out every few weeks or month anyways at around >50%. 
If I'm doing something out of the ordinary I'll carry spares. If camping out, I'll carry a spare 18650, a spare AA eneloop along with a spare AA lithium, and a spare AAA eneloop and spare lithium. I haven't needed any of the spares so far.

In daily use, the H600w clipped in front pocket and AAA twisty neck light get used all the time. 
The AA twisty is left in the camping gear, has a supply of 1.5v lithium batteries stocked up for it though, in a long term gridless situation it would become the most used light.


----------



## ronniepudding (Oct 10, 2016)

Hands-free lighting is really important to me. I use my Zebralight H52W with the stock strap and holder nearly every day for bedtime reading. When I go camping, or have some nighttime or close-up task to do around the house, it's the light I go to first.

It has DC-fix diffuser film on the lens, which I believe makes its beam similar to the H52FW model with the frosted lens. If needed, I could remove the diffuser film to restore it to a more throwy beam... but in ~2 years of use that has not yet happened. If I had to replace it, I'd probably just buy the H52FW.

I can understand folks liking the 18650 models, but for me the AA format is preferable for strapping to my head, and bright enough for my needs.

I'd agree that the right angle design is versatile, and -- if I could only carry one light with me -- for many situations I would choose the Zebralight H52. Nevertheless, it is not my first choice for handheld use, purely due to ergonomic reasons... it's a bit small for my hands, and I find it slippery and slightly awkward to manipulate. That's just a personal preference. For handheld use, I prefer a larger diameter light with a rear clicky, like an Eagletac D25C, or Foursevens Quark with a 1xAA battery tube.


----------



## Dave Huck (Oct 10, 2016)

Great thread! I have to agree. After carrying CR123 lights for many years I now take a pair of AAs (H52FW and SC52W) plus a AAA twisty when I'm overseas.

The H52 is probably the most versatile light for around camp but I must admit that I prefer the ergonomics of the SC52 when walking any distance.


----------



## redvalkyrie (Oct 10, 2016)

Do any of these right angle lights have a magnetic base?


----------



## MX421 (Oct 10, 2016)

redvalkyrie said:


> Do any of these right angle lights have a magnetic base?




The Zebralights do not, but the Armytek Tiara (also AA/14500 format) and the Wizard (18650 format) pro models do (Beware of quality issues with the Armyteks and buy from a US dealer to be truly "Hassle Free"). However, I prefer the Zebralights even without that very useful feature (why they don't add it amazes me) and may mod a couple of my Zebralights by attaching a magnet to their tailcap.

I have been carrying around a H502 off and on for awhile to see if it can replace my H602, but i prefer the 18650 light. I only do that if i am able to carry another 18650 light ( i generally carry at least two lights on me). With the H602, i always have the option for the higher (double usually) highs for seeing areas hidden just outside of daylight conditions. If i don't use the highs, i get longer runtimes with the lower level mediums equalling H502 level highs. Still, the downside is that it *is *bigger, but at the moment i have room in my pockets.


----------



## bykfixer (Oct 11, 2016)

redvalkyrie said:


> Do any of these right angle lights have a magnetic base?



There is one by Rofis that looks like it has potential. Waiting on review(s).


----------



## reppans (Oct 11, 2016)

Right angle lights are very useful.... but I've had bad luck with Zebras/Armyteks, and electronic clickies in general.


----------



## Poppy (Oct 11, 2016)

reppans said:


> Right angle lights are very useful.... but I've had bad luck with Zebras/Armyteks, and electronic clickies in general.


I see that Dazed1 is running a group buy on the Imalent HR20 XPL Hi do you have any experience with them, or that type of UI?


----------



## Bicycleflyer (Oct 11, 2016)

Right angle lights have their place for sure... Many years ago when I was flying single pilot under FAR 135, The FAA and my company mandated a 2 D-cell flashlight. Those aircraft did not have the excess light or the redundancy that I have now. So a flashlight was more critical in those operations. Initially, like most my peers I just bought a run-of-the-mill Maglight. Then one night my flashlight rolled away in some light turbulence. So I looked into another option. Flashlights with anti-roll capability were OK to keep your light from rolling across the kitchen table, but in turbulence that feature is useless. I was looking through a magazine one afternoon when I saw an Army recruiting ad. The soldier had one of those bent-neck flashlights on and it dawned on me....That was what I needed. I found a genuine Army surplus store (pre-internet days) and I promptly bought one. It worked great and never once rolled away on me. The bent feature had the additional benefit of fitting into my bag better than the maglight. I always thought the extra lenses would be neat, but I really never used them. The clip was very handy for attaching it to my shirt or hanging the light. That light stayed in my bag for over 10 years. With the advent of LED and the loosening of the FAA's 2 D-cell rule I finally retired that flashlight. But not before I replaced the bulb with an "everled". I still keep the light just in case I find myself in another airline that mandates 2 D-cell. 

As good as that light was, I do like having the extra space in my bag that a smaller light affords me.


----------



## reppans (Oct 11, 2016)

Poppy said:


> I see that Dazed1 is running a group buy on the Imalent HR20 XPL Hi do you have any experience with them, or that type of UI?



No...I'm just buying my old favs these days


----------



## jarheadgreasemonkey (Oct 12, 2016)

I think so, yes...

The H502w is my most often used torch; several hours a day (I work in a poorly lit shop).

I think for ultimate versatility, the model with the deep reflector and frosted lens would be better; of course, one could just affix a diffuser to the clear lens model.

I went with the full flood as it provides as much (and more) light than I need at arms length and a little past that if necessary. 

Run it on one of the medium settings most of the time.


----------



## gsr (Oct 12, 2016)

First Light USA's TORQ is a very versatile right angle light that runs on 2 AA. It has a dozen different light color/output combinations, plus a strobe feature.


----------



## tops2 (Oct 15, 2016)

Dave Huck said:


> The H52 is probably the most versatile light for around camp but I must admit that I prefer the ergonomics of the SC52 when walking any distance.



I only have two headlamps and both are 18650. Very quickly I've come to appreciate a headlamp/right angle light...especially with a clip. I do think about getting one last 18650 Zebralight handheld general use flashlight since like you, I prefer a handheld flashlight for walking any distance as well.


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 16, 2016)

All good reading.

My take-away is if you are in a casual use situation that doesn't require lobs of dumb lumens bursting forth asunder senselessly like a multi barrel 20mm rotary cannon at a carnival balloon pop range, then a AA right-angle light can suffice. Just get a quality tint to make up for whatever it lacks in horsepower and I swear it will be your go-to personal light as well once you realize the advantages.

The misses in my life actually likes to use her floody high CRI right-angle light for when she's doing her nails. She stands it up on the table, puts it on medium and it's enough light to last her a few hours. lol It's great portable personal illumination. A regular flashlight would need a separate stand of some sort to do the same thing.

I've recently picked up a handful of Keeppower 14500 lithiums and have a spare in the messenger bag. When traveling I used to carry both my EagleTac T25C2 and my bored SureFire C2 18650 light with the Kerberos quad dropin as my personal light but I found I stick with the med setting. It was too heavy, expensive, and bright for personal EDC use so I sold it lol. Now I have the tac light for when I need to stretch out lumens and the right angle light as my go-to personal light. Sold ALL my other quad dropins and even my big SST-90 light.

I'm still a flashaholic, but I guess my tastes have evolved (or matured?) opting for compactness, versatility and color rendering aspects over dumb lumens. The AA right-angle light matches perfectly.


----------



## StandardBattery (Oct 16, 2016)

gsr said:


> First Light USA's TORQ is a very versatile right angle light that runs on 2 AA. It has a dozen different light color/output combinations, plus a strobe feature.


Yes, interesting light. It's not very bright bit it can be quite useful.

Around the house I actually use a couple CR123A Zebra headlamps as angle lights. Most of the time they are running on batteries too depleted to run bigger flashlights. I still prefer my EDC light to be standard straight one, but I was reminded last week that when I'm carrying my pack I should have a headlamp in there. It would be good for headlamp and handle light. My lights are often used indoors where I love ceiling and wall bouncing them. My toolkit has a dedicated headlamp/angle light. 

I've been playing with the TORQ more lately, and I was going to clip it a shoulder strap on my pack, but it actually looked just a bit too tactical given my pack (sling bag) is from Maxpedition and has a fair amount of Molle. It was just a little too much for the daily commute. I'll try to work out out though as it's polymer body can take a few hits and if good in the cold weather.


----------



## D6859 (Oct 17, 2016)

I guess the biggest drawback of a right-angle flashlight/headlamp compared to a straight one is that you have to bend your wrist or hold it like a pen when walking with it. As mentioned above straight head flashlights have better ergonomics for that. Also, as I'm not allowed to carry e.g. knife or a gun, I carry flashlight for my self-defense (I've been able to talk myself out of the situations so far but it's nice to have a little backup). Straight head flashlight is my choice for obvious reasons. 

I recently got *Skilhunt H02R*. I like that it's easy to slip in or out of the rubber holder but there's no need for that always. Last weekend we built a climbing wall for my niece with my dad. I left the headlamp on the floor in its holder to illuminate the wall. My dad picked it up and used it as a right-angle light with the headband still attached when he needed to take a closer look of something. I should attach the pocket clip on it so it would be more versatile without the headband.

Edit. Forgot to mention that I prefer 18650 li-ion for it's higher capacity to size ratio, but AA headlamp that accepts 14500 has its advantages, especially if you lend it to a friend for a longer period.


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 18, 2016)

^^ I never thought about holding a ZebraLight like a pen when walking. Tried it, yeah actually kinda works better than holding it in a fist and bending your arm up. Much easier to dangle your arms relaxed this way. 

I also think we intuitively like to imagine our photons following down a straight line through and out the source, and a right angle light can seem awkward in this respect.

Maybe an adjustable tilting head is the answer but then we open up a can of worms in waterproofing, electro-mechanics and overall size. Nah. I can live with the compromise. It's a better type of versatile light - as is.


----------



## Poppy (Oct 18, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> Let's say you are choosing your loadouts for some unknown destination and one of the requirements is keeping a bare minimum of equipment in mind. I'm thinking I'd probably be served MUCH BETTER carrying two AA right-angle lights (and a few spare 14500 lithiums) vs a single 18650 light and its spare 18650 lithiums.
> 
> Two lights are better than one and the AA factor is a win.
> 
> Thoughts?


lol...
I see this once again as the AA vs 18650 debate.

I prefer the capacity of a single 18650 cell vs 3.5 AA NiMH cells or alkaleeks.
Two 18650 cells are equivalent to 7 AA cells in capacity.

Two 18650 lights each loaded with a cell might be compared to
Two AA lights each loaded with a cell, and 5 additional spare cells.

---------------------------------------
If one adds two spare 18650 cells, the AA light carrier would have to carry 12 spare cells in all.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose that if one was to pack two lights, there is an argument to be made for a right-angle head light. They however typically have small shallow reflectors, and are more floody than throwy. If I were to choose a right angle light, I would select a standard light as its companion with a more throwy beam profile. That would make my lighting capabilities more flexible.


----------



## D6859 (Oct 18, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> ^^ I never thought about holding a ZebraLight like a pen when walking. Tried it, yeah actually kinda works better than holding it in a fist and bending your arm up. Much easier to dangle your arms relaxed this way.
> 
> I also think we intuitively like to imagine our photons following down a straight line through and out the source, and a right angle light can seem awkward in this respect.



Well, if you were skiing, holding the right-angle flashlight/headlamp would be natural. But if you're walking with your arms straight, holding such a flashligt in your hand doesn't feel natural. For me, the pen hold felt natural as I tried it with the H02R. 

Intuively I think think the photons come from the LED, no matter hor the head is shaped (ok, the optics mean a lot there).


----------



## tops2 (Oct 20, 2016)

D6859 said:


> Well, if you were skiing, holding the right-angle flashlight/headlamp would be natural. But if you're walking with your arms straight, holding such a flashligt in your hand doesn't feel natural. For me, the pen hold felt natural as I tried it with the H02R.



I've also ended up holding my Zebralight headlamp similar to the pen hold. I guess if I had to describe, its almost a syringe hold with the head resting in between my thumb and index finger. To point the light in different directions, then I do the full syringe hold (rest my thumb on the head), rest the end of the (Armytek) clip on my middle finger and just pivot and rotate the light.

One time I tried jogging one lap hand holding the headlamp and found with my running style, its more comfortable straight up hand hold the light and still be able to point the light forward. Granted its only one lap (~0.22 miles) so I don't know how I'll feel for an actual longer distance jog.


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 26, 2016)

Poppy said:


> lol... I see this once again as the AA vs 18650 debate. I prefer the capacity of a single 18650 cell vs 3.5 AA NiMH cells or alkaleeks. Two 18650 cells are equivalent to 7 AA cells in capacity. Two 18650 lights each loaded with a cell might be compared to Two AA lights each loaded with a cell, and 5 additional spare cells. --------------------------------------- If one adds two spare 18650 cells, the AA light carrier would have to carry 12 spare cells in all. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- I suppose that if one was to pack two lights, there is an argument to be made for a right-angle head light. They however typically have small shallow reflectors, and are more floody than throwy. If I were to choose a right angle light, I would select a standard light as its companion with a more throwy beam profile. That would make my lighting capabilities more flexible.



^^ Yeah I'm using 14500 lithiums. They are small enough to carry a few conveniently enough  Also in a SHTF situation, I can see the AA format being a much more reliable source in the long run.

For when the grid goes down city apartment - two right-angle AA/14500 lights.
For camping - an 18650 light and two right-angle AA/14500 lights.
For hiking - an 18650 light and a AA/14500 light.
For when the Earths magnetic poles reverse - an 18650 light, two right-angle AA/14500 lights and two backup 9V Paklights (just the LED modules).


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 26, 2016)

D6859 said:


> Well, if you were skiing, holding the right-angle flashlight/headlamp would be natural. But if you're walking with your arms straight, holding such a flashligt in your hand doesn't feel natural. For me, the pen hold felt natural as I tried it with the H02R.
> 
> Intuively I think think the photons come from the LED, no matter hor the head is shaped (ok, the optics mean a lot there).



I found a new method - (works nice with a smaller AA right-angle light)

Say you are right-handed. Hold the light like a cigar, and your thumb on the left side of the head. I hold it this way with the body of the light horizontal. I get that pointing down a line feeling like with a straight light.


----------



## Poppy (Oct 26, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> ^^ Yeah I'm using 14500 lithiums. They are small enough to carry a few conveniently enough  Also in a SHTF situation, I can see the AA format being a much more reliable source in the long run.
> 
> For when the grid goes down city apartment - two right-angle AA/14500 lights.
> For camping - an 18650 light and two right-angle AA/14500 lights.
> ...


LOL...
At this point I am participating in the discussion just for argument's sake. 

A single 18650 has a little more capacity than FOUR 14500s. If you are only carrying a few spares, then you'd be better off with a single 18650 
In a SHTF scenario, our friend reppans has showed us how to mcgyver a quark, or Eagletac D25A to run, not just on AA/14500s, but also on C, or D cells, with just a paperclip and some tin-foil. I don't know if you can do that with a angle head light. 

Sometimes I'll carry my D25A with a 14500 when I want a particularly small light and think that it may be useful where I am going, especially if I think it will be used just for minutes. 

Sometimes I'll carry a convoy with a short body running an 18350, or a Manker U11 with a 18650. It's really a pretty compact 18650 light with moonlight and up to 1100 lumens, with a beam that is between the floody S2+, and a XML2 P60.

OK, so I digress... so in a SHTF scenario, it can be argued that the straight head D25A, or Quark, can be more versatile than angle-head lights for there flexibility in running on any 1V to 4.2 volt battery. 

So I guess that I take issue with your initial premise that two AA/14500 angle head lights with spare batteries are superior to other combinations of lights. 
hahaha... yeah, I can't let it go.


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 26, 2016)

Poppy said:


> LOL...
> At this point I am participating in the discussion just for argument's sake.
> 
> A single 18650 has a little more capacity than FOUR 14500s. If you are only carrying a few spares, then you'd be better off with a single 18650
> ...



-- Nearly any 1.5v capable light can be hacked. Just depends how waterproof you want your light to be 
-- I'm not arguing if the 18650 is more convenient and higher capacity. Of course it is. Thing is, it won't fit in my roll-out power film AA solar charger slots, but 4 enloops sure can. And 4 enloops in a USB power pack connected to a cottonpickers or NiteCore F1 charger can charge an 18650. AA versatility over the long haul wins.
-- I have a LensCoat brand AA battery pouch that is compact and fits 4 AA/14500's and can strap onto a belt. Not difficult to carry spares.
-- The right-angle light has more free-hand carrying versatility as well.
-- I'd wager two AA/14500 lights will get someone further along when dropped in the middle of nowhere than someone with a single 18650 light. 2 lights are always better than 1. And two ZebraLight H51C's (pictured in my first post) for instance would take up about as much physical weight and space as your average tactical 18650 light.

Sure the right angle lights are floodier, that's why I would carry an 18650 light to reach out. But the right-angle lights would get way more usage. You cannot deny this


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 26, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> I found a new method - (works nice with a smaller AA right-angle light)
> 
> Say you are right-handed. Hold the light like a cigar, and your thumb on the left side of the head. I hold it this way with the body of the light horizontal. I get that pointing down a line feeling like with a straight light.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Just to clarify.

Like this, but perhaps a bit less haphazardly, and the thumb rests on the side of the head. The orange sticker would be the reflector lol. My camera is being borrowed so I couldn't just snap a photo instead.







You can actually point with your index finger at whatever it is your lighting up this way.


----------



## D6859 (Oct 27, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Just to clarify.
> 
> Like this, but perhaps a bit less haphazardly, and the thumb rests on the side of the head. The orange sticker would be the reflector lol. My camera is being borrowed so I couldn't just snap a photo instead.
> 
> ...



Actually that is what I meant with my "pen hold". Sorry for being misleading. Depending on where you keep the head of the flashlight and/or your thumb you could call it cigar grip, pen grip or syrigne grip


----------



## Poppy (Oct 27, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> -- Nearly any 1.5v capable light can be hacked. Just depends how waterproof you want your light to be
> -- I'm not arguing if the 18650 is more convenient and higher capacity. Of course it is. Thing is, it won't fit in my roll-out power film AA solar charger slots, but 4 enloops sure can. And 4 enloops in a USB power pack connected to a cottonpickers or NiteCore F1 charger can charge an 18650. AA versatility over the long haul wins.
> -- I have a LensCoat brand AA battery pouch that is compact and fits 4 AA/14500's and can strap onto a belt. Not difficult to carry spares.
> -- The right-angle light has more free-hand carrying versatility as well.
> ...



Didn't you write this?
"Let's say you are choosing your loadouts for some unknown destination and one of the requirements is keeping a bare minimum of equipment in mind. I'm thinking I'd probably be served MUCH BETTER carrying two AA right-angle lights (and a few spare 14500 lithiums) vs a single 18650 light and its spare 18650 lithiums.

Two lights are better than one and the AA factor is a win."

And then this?
"I'm not arguing if the 18650 is more convenient and higher capacity. Of course it is."

And then conclude with this?
"I would carry an 18650 light to reach out."

--------------------------------------------------------------

To all this, I don't know if I would agree that it is better to carry two different battery formats, AA/14500 and 18650, I suppose that one could argue that would make the load out more flexible. That however wasn't your original premise. 

If you are going to carry an 18650 "to reach out", and "the 18650 is more convenient, with higher capacity" then, wouldn't it make sense to carry a 18650 right angle light, with your more standard 18650 flashlight? This way one could consolidate on a single battery format. 

If you are going to carry a 18650 standard light to reach out, would you carry a spare 18650 battery for it?

If you carry a single 18650 right angle light, that would still have double the capacity of two AA/14500 right angle lights, AND it would be a smaller package overall. And since you are also carrying a single standard 18650 light to reach out, that would make the two light redundancy, that we all agree is so important.

If you carry a single 18650 right angle light, and a single 18650 standard light, and a single spare 18650, that would be comparable in capacity to a single 18650 light "to reach out", two AA/14500 lights with batteries, and 6 spare AA/14500 batteries.

So, when you said this:
"Thing is, [18650s] it won't fit in my roll-out power film AA solar charger slots, but 4 enloops sure can."
You meant that this whole discussion only pertains to YOU because of the limits of YOUR charging ability?


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 27, 2016)

^^^^

I love candlepowerforums! 



> "To all this, I don't know if I would agree that it is better to carry two different battery formats, AA/14500 and 18650, I suppose that one could argue that would make the load out more flexible. That however wasn't your original premise."



Poppy, there is a time and a purpose for each loadout utilizing different battery types and I emphasized it here.

"For when the grid goes down city apartment - two right-angle AA/14500 lights.
For camping - an 18650 light and two right-angle AA/14500 lights.
For hiking - an 18650 light and a AA/14500 light.
For when the Earths magnetic poles reverse - an 18650 light, two right-angle AA/14500 lights and two backup 9V Paklights (just the LED modules)."



> If you are going to carry an 18650 "to reach out", and "the 18650 is more convenient, with higher capacity" then, wouldn't it make sense to carry a 18650 right angle light, with your more standard 18650 flashlight? This way one could consolidate on a single battery format.



No. Because out in the middle of nowhere, you are more likely to happen across AA primaries/lithiums/enloops than 18650's. And most compact on-the-go solar chargers are optimized for the AA format.



> If you are going to carry a 18650 standard light to reach out, would you carry a spare 18650 battery for it?



Depends how light I want my loadout to be. If there's a need without restriction, then - Yup. With restriction, then I would toss the 18650 light entirely and stick with two small AA right-angle lights. The ZebraLight H51C isn't really half bad at reaching out there ya know, especially with two aimed in the same direction. This would also become a separate discussion of how many lumens does one REALLY need. But let's not go there.



> If you carry a single 18650 right angle light, that would still have double the capacity of two AA/14500 right angle lights, AND it would be a smaller package overall. And since you are also carrying a single standard 18650 light to reach out, that would make the two light redundancy, that we all agree is so important.



AA availability and charging readiness on-the-go trumps the 18650 in the long run.

That is my premise along with the right-angle benefits of free-hand flexibility.



> If you carry a single 18650 right angle light, and a single 18650 standard light, and a single spare 18650, that would be comparable in capacity to a single 18650 light "to reach out", two AA/14500 lights with batteries, and 6 spare AA/14500 batteries.



Again the AA format is a more reliably replenished source in the long run. Both in recharge capability on-the-go and your odds of acquiring them.



> So, when you said this:
> "Thing is, [18650s] it won't fit in my roll-out power film AA solar charger slots, but 4 enloops sure can."





> You meant that this whole discussion only pertains to YOU because of the limits of YOUR charging ability?



I did say bare-minimum afterall...

Poppy consider you are dropped quite a bit outside of civilization, say a ways off from Cairo, Egypt and it's going to be awhile before you arrive there...

Loadout option 1:
Two AA format right-angle lights including their 2 enloops and a PowerFilm AA solar charger (weighs about a lb.)

Loadout option 2:
One 18650 format right-angle light with its included 18650 + a spare 18650 sans the PowerFilm AA solar charger (weighs about a lb.)

The energy density of the 18650 loadout is much higher out the gate. It wins there. But where it fails is A) its replenishing capability on-the-go once the 18650's are OUT. And B) 2 functional AA lights are better than 1 dead 18650 light.





The solar charger can be charging both enloops to the MAX throughout the day.

In the long run the AA format wins.


----------



## Poppy (Oct 27, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> I did say bare-minimum afterall...
> 
> Poppy consider you are dropped quite a bit outside of civilization, say Cairo, Egypt.
> 
> ...



hahaha... change the scenario and your complement of tools all you want, If you drop me off in the middle of Cairo, Egypt... See HERE. 
Then, while you are out getting a tan, charging your solarloops, I'll call an uber and plug this into his cigar lighter plug, and charge my light directly, or with a small usb charger, that also serves as a battery/power bank interface with an 18650, for my cell phone. Those two adapters weigh a total of 17 grams. That's 0.037 lbs. That's 37 thousandths of a pound, and is MUCH smaller than a foldable solar panel. We are talking minimalist here, right?


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 27, 2016)

^^ LOL

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

I could actually charge a 3400 mah 18650 (up to about 70%) with 4 enloops inside a USB power bank, a Nitecore F1 charger and all maintained with a 4 slot solar charger. 

I should of mentioned I edited my post to say OUTSIDE of Cairo, Egypt


----------



## Poppy (Oct 27, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> ^^ LOL
> 
> I guess we'll agree to disagree.
> 
> ...


hahaha
you're funny.

Hadn't you mentioned earlier that one may find the ubiquitous AA anywhere in the world? I had to laugh when I thought of riding on the hump of a camel from one pyramid to another looking to find an AA cell somewhere there in the sand. 

How is it in your scenarios, you get to carry multiple lights, loaded with 14500 cells, but then they are suddenly eneloops with a solar charger when you need more capacity to out-run me who is somehow reduced to carrying a single 18650 light, and sometimes you'll graciously permit me to also carry a spare battery? 

Come-on man! You've got to even it up, and then prove your point. You know that they do make solar solutions for 18650 cells, don't you? Of Course you do!  

And sure energy can be transferred from one battery format to the other with proper tools, just as a USB 18650 battery/power bank can charge other Li-Ion cells, or eneloops, etc., so can a 4 AA cell power bank.


----------



## Poppy (Oct 27, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> ^^ LOL
> 
> I guess we'll agree to disagree.



Yeah, I guess we beat this horse to death eh? 
But, it's been fun! 

Over the years I have been tempted to get a ZL 18650 angle head, I just didn't pull the trigger.
My best headlamp is a crelant CH10, which is probably considered a "thrower" for a headlamp. It is an angle head, but the head is in the middle of the body. Honestly, not quite as versatile as yours. 

When you started this thread, it reminded me of a post you made a couple/few years ago of an angle head ZL (I think it was a ZL) clipped to the shoulder strap of a back pack. That struck me, back then, of the flexibility of that style light. 

I do have a couple of floody right angle COB lights, that I have used under the bathroom sink, and come to think of it under the kitchen sink too! bykfixer commented that they seem to have the ability to see around corners, and in that scenario, I have to agree. There's no doubt that right angle lights have a place, and maybe, if your intent was to point out how they are underappreciated, then this thread may have caused some to give additional consideration to their merits. I hope so 

IF I am in dress slacks, and I want to carry more than my CooYoo Quantum, then I am likely to take a DQG AAA light or my D25A (loaded with a 14500). So I do appreciate how relatively small a good AA light is. Usually a single 14500 light without a spare battery is enough. BUT, if I am in jeans, and I am bringing a light, then most likely it will be a small 18650. I carry an 18650 for it's additional run-time, just in case. And I do like more lumens, just because. BUT... I don't need crazy lumens. I'll get my lights under-driven (when I have the option) so that I get better run-times, unless the light was bought for its ability for high output. 

So, all in all, I pack different lights for different anticipated scenarios. 
I am rarely more than 100 yards away from my car, and it has a variety of lights, batteries, and chargers for them all.

In a SHTF situation where I had time to consider which light, we would probably move in a group of ten or more, and have both 18650 and AA lights.


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 27, 2016)

Poppy said:


> hahaha
> you're funny.
> 
> Hadn't you mentioned earlier that one may find the ubiquitous AA anywhere in the world? I had to laugh when I thought of riding on the hump of a camel from one pyramid to another looking to find an AA cell somewhere there in the sand.
> ...



Given two 18650's have much more capacity than the enloops I figured I'd even it up a bit with the solar charger.  BTW, there's a compact 3.7V rollout film solar charger? That's news to me. I bet that takes forever to charge to-boot 

The compact AA/14500/enloop/AA solar charger/off-the-shelf-availability-of-AA's/right-angle configuration just works for me.

I've had a bored SureFire 6P with the A19 extender and a 70 lumen Malkoff dropin installed.











It was THE survival light taking 18650's/AA's/Enloops but was ultimately just too damn heavy for what it does. Then came fiddling around with much smaller and lighter ZebraLights and Armytek right-angle lights. Wow! Not to mention a much wider selection of operating modes. Sold the 6P for a nice sum and never looked back.


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 27, 2016)

Poppy said:


> Yeah, I guess we beat this horse to death eh?
> But, it's been fun!
> 
> Over the years I have been tempted to get a ZL 18650 angle head, I just didn't pull the trigger.
> ...



Same here. But I'd also throw in a few 9V Paklight's for good measure lol


----------



## Poppy (Oct 27, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> Given two 18650's have much more capacity than the enloops I figured I'd even it up a bit with the solar charger.  BTW, there's a compact 3.7V rollout film solar charger? That's news to me. I bet that takes forever to charge to-boot
> 
> The compact AA/14500/enloop/AA solar charger/off-the-shelf-availability-of-AA's/right-angle configuration just works for me.


Yes
the PowerFilm 5W version is about 30% larger than their AA version, but delivers about twice the wattage per hour.

Certainly there are others. I didn't research solar, so I can't get specific.


----------



## davidt1 (Oct 28, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> Especially as a survival light? I have a AA ZebraLight H51C (Luxeon Rebel high CRI) and after really using it, I can't see too many advantages anymore to carrying a regular flashlight except for special purposes only (say a tac light).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I love angle lights. I started with the H501, H51, and now H52w and H502w which are my EDC lights. Both have over 2,000 hours of use. Of the two the H502w has the most usage because I use it as a desk lamp and neck light -- due to the even flood beam.


----------



## weekend warrior (Oct 28, 2016)

I'd say a right angle AA and a conventional 18650 with a built in charger are the two most versatile lights. Widely available cells vs the ability to charge from any AC or DC power source. In a SHTF scenario I'm definitely taking both.


----------



## MX421 (Oct 28, 2016)

davidt1 said:


> I love angle lights. I started with the H501, H51, and now H52w and H502w which are my EDC lights. Both have over 2,000 hours of use. Of the two the H502w has the most usage because I use it as a desk lamp and neck light -- due to the even flood beam.



Because of your post in the mod thread (the pictures in that thread don't come up BTW so thanks for the posting of pics here), I've been toying around with the Walgreens fingersplints to devise a neck hanging system similar to yours. My first headlamp (2nd Zebralight) was a H602w. I now also have a H502d (an older one that can't take 14500s) and i feel underprepared when i carry that instead of my H602w (which has been a constant companion since i've gotten it). If i can get the splint thing to work hanging around the neck as you depict, i'll probably be carrying it around quite a bit too, but i don't see it replacing the H602w i have (and now a backup since they went on sale clearing them out.


----------



## MX421 (Oct 28, 2016)

D6859 said:


> I guess the biggest drawback of a right-angle flashlight/headlamp compared to a straight one is that you have to bend your wrist or hold it like a pen when walking with it. As mentioned above straight head flashlights have better ergonomics for that.



Agree on this, which is why i prefer to have both, but the other side of it is that when walking with a floody light, I am more likely to want to have i pointed downwards to see where i am walking (and to not shine it in the eyes of drivers and other walkers). still another side to it is that i generally will wear my headlamp around my neck (with the strap up until now, but as posted earlier a system similar to DavidT's now that is evolving.


----------



## MX421 (Oct 28, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> Given two 18650's have much more capacity than the enloops I figured I'd even it up a bit with the solar charger.  BTW, there's a compact 3.7V rollout film solar charger? That's news to me. I bet that takes forever to charge to-boot .



I have two suntastics solar chargers that i can run all of my USB based chargers on (up to 2A!), thus, bringing up a solar chrager only makes the case for the 18650. The suntastic charger are quire durable and fold to a pretty compact form, but the roll out sound even cooler.




ledmitter_nli said:


> Then came fiddling around with much smaller and lighter ZebraLights and Armytek right-angle lights. Wow! Not to mention a much wider selection of operating modes. Sold the 6P for a nice sum and never looked back.



I've got a few 6Ps, C2s, and other P60 lights and they have their place, still, like you after having a Zebralight, i would pick it over a P60 sized light if i had to pick only one.


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 29, 2016)

MX421 said:


> Agree on this, which is why i prefer to have both, but the other side of it is that when walking with a floody light, I am more likely to want to have i pointed downwards to see where i am walking (and to not shine it in the eyes of drivers and other walkers). still another side to it is that i generally will wear my headlamp around my neck (with the strap up until now, but as posted earlier a system similar to DavidT's now that is evolving.



Try holding the right-angle light like this but with your thumb on the side and your middle finger curled more underneath for support. 

I describe why here


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 29, 2016)

davidt1 said:


> I love angle lights. I started with the H501, H51, and now H52w and H502w which are my EDC lights. Both have over 2,000 hours of use. Of the two the H502w has the most usage because I use it as a desk lamp and neck light -- due to the even flood beam.



Interesting idea.


----------



## Dave D (Oct 29, 2016)

Poppy said:


> I had to laugh when I thought of riding on the hump of a camel from one pyramid to another looking to find an AA cell somewhere there in the sand.



I think that you'd probably be able to find some AA's available not too far from the pyramids! :twothumbs


----------



## wolfgaze (Oct 29, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> Especially as a survival light? I have a AA ZebraLight H51C (Luxeon Rebel high CRI) and after really using it, I can't see too many advantages anymore to carrying a regular flashlight except for special purposes only (say a tac light).



Nice looking light you've got there.... What's the CRI rate at? Also, the LED/emitter that you specified, was that factor or an aftermarket customization?


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Oct 29, 2016)

^^^ Original 85 CRI Luxeon Rebel, 130 lumens max (with an alkaline!)

Maybe a dinosaur in the flashlight world, but I actually preferred its tint over a Nichia 219B which was just too white for my liking.

I love the light because it's so darn tiny for a AA and has good output and mode selections.


----------



## Poppy (Oct 29, 2016)

LOL... that's funny!

Do you think I might be able to find a place to plug in a charger?

Honestly, I knew that there were roads, so that tourists could drive right up to the base of the pyramids, but I didn't know that there was a huge population center a stone's throw away.

Great post!



Dave D said:


> I think that you'd probably be able to find some AA's available not too far from the pyramids! :twothumbs


----------



## bykfixer (Oct 29, 2016)

This one is kinda versatile. Sidewinder Rescue has swivel head, IR, white, green or blue. Lantern or spot, and 4 brightness levels of each. About the size of a wallet. Uses 2x AA's. Also has a MOLLE/helmet clip.








Or metal plate for holding against a magnet.


----------



## MX421 (Oct 29, 2016)

wolfgaze said:


> Nice looking light you've got there.... What's the CRI rate at? Also, the LED/emitter that you specified, was that factor or an aftermarket customization?



Thats one bad thing about Zebralight is that they are difficult to mod (or so i've read). The bezel is pressed apparently



ledmitter_nli said:


> ^^^ Original 85 CRI Luxeon Rebel, 130 lumens max (with an alkaline!)
> 
> Maybe a dinosaur in the flashlight world, but I actually preferred its tint over a Nichia 219B which was just too white for my liking.
> 
> I love the light because it's so darn tiny for a AA and has good output and mode selections.


I have a similar aged H502d with the same CRI and love it (although as mentioned earlier, not as much as my H602w). I can still tell the difference in color rendering even though I'm color blind in some shades of pinks and greens. The SC600 III plus is supposed to be in the 93-95 CRI range. Wish they would put that in a Headlamp and then i'd be all over it...


----------



## Poppy (Oct 29, 2016)

Gee Mr. Bykfixer,
I'd say that sidewinder takes the prize as THE MOST versatile light.



bykfixer said:


> This one is kinda versatile. Sidewinder Rescue has swivel head, IR, white, green or blue. Lantern or spot, and 4 brightness levels of each. About the size of a wallet. Uses 2x AA's. Also has a MOLLE/helmet clip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bykfixer (Oct 29, 2016)

Poppy said:


> Gee Mr. Bykfixer,
> I'd say that sidewinder takes the prize as THE MOST versatile light.



Unless you need mega bright...it is not good at that.


----------



## davidt1 (Oct 29, 2016)

MX421 said:


> Agree on this, which is why i prefer to have both, but the other side of it is that when walking with a floody light, I am more likely to want to have i pointed downwards to see where i am walking (and to not shine it in the eyes of drivers and other walkers). still another side to it is that i generally will wear my headlamp around my neck (with the strap up until now, but as posted earlier a system similar to DavidT's now that is evolving.



The small H502 works really well as a neck light. I wear mine around the neck almost all day. 





With a magnetic clip it's also a work light, desk lamp, etc.















This is the desk lamp in my room.





All the versatility in a small size and carries in the pocket just like a any small AA light.


----------



## MX421 (Oct 31, 2016)

davidt1 said:


> The small H502 works really well as a neck light. I wear mine around the neck almost all day.


A neck light worn all the time is where the H502w will beat the H602. I wear my H602w like that all the time, but its too big to hide under a work shirt. Maybe during the winter...



davidt1 said:


> With a magnetic clip it's also a work light, desk lamp, etc.



I like that magnetic clip setup, will go back to the mod thread and see how it was attached, i presume shrinkwrap. I know a lot of people are also gluing magnets on the tailcap. I'm almost to the point of ding that...



davidt1 said:


> All the versatility in a small size and carries in the pocket just like a any small AA light.


Agree, the H502w is pretty small, but after carrying a not much bigger H602w, i'm going a little bigger for either higher bursts or longer runtimes. Still, I like what you've done with the light. I'm presently using a P7 suspension clip and it stores well that way (with the Wizard clip of course). Of course that is in place of your regular style clip.


----------



## davidt1 (Nov 1, 2016)

MX421 said:


> I like that magnetic clip setup, will go back to the mod thread and see how it was attached, i presume shrinkwrap. I know a lot of people are also gluing magnets on the tailcap. I'm almost to the point of ding that...



Yes shrink tubing was used to keep the magnets in place. 

I used to have a magnet glued to the tail cap, but now I prefer to attach the magnets to the swiveling clip because the beam angle adjustment is infinite. Beam angle adjustment of tail cap magnet is limited, as illustrated below.


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Nov 1, 2016)

^^^ I really like the magnets idea. But for me, I carry my lights next to debit and transit cards so that's a no go, lest I wipe out the information on the magnetic strips.


----------



## MX421 (Nov 1, 2016)

ledmitter_nli said:


> ^^^ I really like the magnets idea. But for me, I carry my lights next to debit and transit cards so that's a no go, lest I wipe out the information on the magnetic strips.



Yeah, I've got a few olights (regular type flashlight) and a Armytek Wizard (18650 format headlamp) that have magnets on the tailcap. Very useful. I read someone one here who lost theirs like that though, and i must admit, i've left mine under the tractor/car a few times when using them. On the other hand, they rode quite well


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Nov 1, 2016)

davidt1 said:


> I love angle lights. I started with the H501, H51, and now H52w and H502w which are my EDC lights. Both have over 2,000 hours of use. Of the two the H502w has the most usage because I use it as a desk lamp and neck light -- due to the even flood beam.


^^^^^^^^^^^ Like two Seeing Eye Towers of Mordor 

What's great about standing up two right-angle lights like this; with two of them you can throw up a nice 180+ degree swath of light and use half the power in each.

That 3" elevation makes all the difference at ground level as well.


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Nov 1, 2016)

Poppy said:


> <snip>
> 
> When you started this thread, it reminded me of a post you made a couple/few years ago of an angle head ZL (I think it was a ZL) clipped to the shoulder strap of a back pack. That struck me, back then, of the flexibility of that style light.
> 
> <snip>.



Found it 







Hands free so one can perhaps hold a radio, or support an injured person, wield Miss Michonne's katana or eat a 12" Subway.  Wutever, the right-angle light is simply a must have!

OMG I remember this from 2013






Today the 18650 isn't centered around my everyday uses though. Mostly AA/14500's since LED output has advanced so much.


----------



## Poppy (Nov 1, 2016)

Yep... that's it! 

Yeah, LEDs have gotten better, back then... XML and XPG, now XML2 XPG2 and XPL 20% better?

I think the big difference in the small lights is that many of them now take a 14500 LiIon. 

Weren't you charging your 18650s back then with solar?


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Nov 3, 2016)

^^^ Sorta. The 4 cell AA USB battery pack can charge an 18650 to about 70%-80%


----------



## Unicorn (Nov 5, 2016)

Each has an advantage. AA is going to be a smaller light, you can find AAs almost anyplace on the planet, and you can find solar chargers for them pretty easily. Smaller, lighter, easier to power.
The 18650 has more capacity, longer run time or much brighter output. Great when you have access to power for charging. Home, office, car camping. Not as convenient to carry on a 12 day hike though. Bigger, brighter, longer run time at same brightness.
I don't see why people argue that one is better than the other... one will be better than the other for a certain use. Not better for everything.


----------



## 0nikudaki (Nov 7, 2016)

Never should have sold my H51W.. I think I need to pick one up now!


----------



## Phlogiston (Nov 8, 2016)

Unicorn said:


> Each has an advantage. AA is going to be a smaller light, you can find AAs almost anyplace on the planet, and you can find solar chargers for them pretty easily. Smaller, lighter, easier to power.
> 
> The 18650 has more capacity, longer run time or much brighter output. Great when you have access to power for charging. Home, office, car camping. Not as convenient to carry on a 12 day hike though. Bigger, brighter, longer run time at same brightness.
> 
> I don't see why people argue that one is better than the other... one will be better than the other for a certain use. Not better for everything.



I agree with most of what you say here, but you can solar-charge an 18650 without too much trouble. A solar panel with USB output will drive a simple 18650 charger like the XTAR MC1 quite nicely. 

From an engineering perspective, it's actually easier to charge Li-Ion cells with fluctuating power than it is to charge NiMH cells. The key is to pick a basic charger that doesn't misbehave when the solar power fluctuates.


----------



## Sabermaster (Nov 10, 2016)

I personally like AA lights a lot. One simple reason, you get the batteries everywhere... literally... I have bought some in the most ridiculous places of this world and even scavenged some when things got interesting at work.

Angled lights also do have their uses, but I simply do not like them very much. I have exactly one and I do not use it as an angle light at all. Only as a headlamp. 

I prefer the straight types with a tail clicky and if I need something hands free I prefer headlights, simple as that. Angle light simply have one problem. If I clip them to my body, they tend to be shining everywhere, but not where I need them to shine. If I want them to shine somewhere specific I usually have to twist my self into a rather awkward position and with a headlamp, I never had this problem.

Maybe this is me, maybe it is not, I do not know, but I know that I prefer not to use angels lights.


----------



## MX421 (Nov 16, 2016)

Sabermaster said:


> Angle light simply have one problem. If I clip them to my body, they tend to be shining everywhere, but not where I need them to shine. If I want them to shine somewhere specific I usually have to twist my self into a rather awkward position and with a headlamp, I never had this problem.
> 
> Maybe this is me, maybe it is not, I do not know, but I know that I prefer not to use angels lights.



We all have our preferences of course, but wearing the light around your neck as Davidt shows eliminates this problem, as long as the light is quite floody.

As for AA versus 18650, again everyone has their own preferences. I was thinking about this the other day and was thinking of those who prefer the AA format because that is enough power for them. I wondered what percentage of those people were really into lights back when lower lumens level were the norm (say under 300) and set that as their benchmark convinced they don't need more. Should be a poll on that, it would be interesting. 

Me, i recently got back into lights and am amazed at the output of the newer 18650 lights although i do use the light normally at lower power (and they last forever that way).


----------



## ironhorse (Nov 16, 2016)

Thanks to this thread, I have a new light. This got me thinking that it's been awhile since buying an angle light. Thanks to the brown truck, I have a First-Light Torq. It's quite the handy light. It has lots of options for hands free use. It could stand to have a bit more flood for my use. I may have to come up with something to diffuse it some, but I am going to use it as is for the time being to see if I change my mind.


----------



## EarlyStarts (Nov 22, 2016)

Now I need to buy an H502....


----------

