# Can a HID bulb damage or melt glass?



## Flashanator (Jul 13, 2009)

Hi,

Would it be damaging to have the tip of the H3 HID bulb touching the glass in a reflector? On either bulb or glass?

Normally the HID bulb is a few mm away from the glass but they changed the new reflectors by a small bit. So annoying. I cant use spaces because then the beam isn't tight.


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## Patriot (Jul 13, 2009)

Flashanator said:


> Hi,
> 
> Would it be damaging to have the tip of the H3 HID bulb touching the glass in a reflector? On either bulb or glass?
> 
> Normally the HID bulb is a few mm away from the glass but they changed the new reflectors by a small bit. So annoying. I cant use spaces because then the beam isn't tight.






I'm not completely sure what you mean Flash. If you're talking about the lens, no it won't melt or crack from heat if the tip of the bulb is touching it. The bulb envelope itself is made of glass and doesn't melt.

Likewise, if you're talking about the reflector, it's aluminum and won't melt from the heat of an HID. Incan's produce more heat without issue, so HID won't hurt anything either.

P.S. It won't hurt the bulb either if it's touching the lens. The only example that I would say would be bad is in the case of an 10W Solarc with the glass envelope removed. It could crack the bulb at its waste if it were allowed to touch.


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## Flashanator (Jul 13, 2009)

Yeah its a tight fit, the bulb tip touches the glass lens.

I hope its ok.


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## Flashanator (Jul 13, 2009)

Its not a tight fit which is annoying too. Is there any glue that can hold the bulb in place of the reflector & withstand the heat?

Only thing I can think of is some sort of automotive epoxy glue, my friend uses it for gluing door skins n stuff on cars. rock solid strong stuff, but dunno if it will melt? :duh2:


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## Patriot (Jul 13, 2009)

I'm sure that some type of epoxy could be found to withstand the heat, I'm just surprised that you would want to epoxy the bulb base to the reflector. Am I misunderstanding?


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## Flashanator (Jul 13, 2009)

lol only option I got.  The bulb should last my life time, so I doubt ill have to change it. oo: I used one washer as a spacer to keep the bulb from resting hard up against the lens. But anymore & the hotspot is sacrificed. It's gentle resting up against the glass lens. Plus the steel clips are not too strong as there small.

How hot do you think the reflector can get? Its a 55w H3 bulb.


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## BVH (Jul 13, 2009)

Flash, silicone sealant will hold and not be affected by heat and is reversible! Slight, steady pull and it will come loose.


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## Flashanator (Jul 13, 2009)

All I have ATM is this:





Do you think it will be ok?

Thanks.


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## BVH (Jul 14, 2009)

No, no good. Use RTV silicone rubber sealant. It's usually clear or black. Not silicone caulking. It usually contains some type of additives that make it harden in a different way and is not as easily undone.


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## Flashanator (Jul 14, 2009)

Would this be ok with the heat tho?


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## Patriot (Jul 14, 2009)

Flashanator said:


> Would this be ok with the heat tho?




I can't wait to see this frankenstein light that you're willing to take such risk with after Bob said "no good" .............. :laughing::kiss: You *will* have to share ya know, pictures and beamshots...


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## BVH (Jul 14, 2009)

Flash, heat is what RTV Silicone excels at. I've used it to install automotive engine exhaust manifolds instead of a gasket. If it will hold up to the heat of engine exhaust, it will make child's play of heat from an HID bulb. Even after years of service, the stuff pulls right off the exhaust manifold and is still rubbery!


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## Flashanator (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks Bob, Ill try Track down some in my area.



Patriot said:


> I can't wait to see this frankenstein light that you're willing to take such risk with after Bob said "no good" .............. :laughing::kiss: You *will* have to share ya know, pictures and beamshots...



:laughing: 

Its called "The Red Box" or "The Red one"  





Its for camping. And its Bright!!!! 


Ill Post some pics later tonight.


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## Patriot (Jul 14, 2009)

Flashanator said:


> Its called "The Red Box"






Red Box! Hey a rent movies from one of those at the Walgreen's near my house.....:nana:


Now how did I know that was going to be frankenstein light? ... LOL


It looks pretty neat and I like the diffused lower lens. Is that going to be the final power source or do you have something else in mind?


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## Flashanator (Jul 14, 2009)

Hey.

I just wired up to a battery for the time been, testing & stuff.

I would like to run it off a car cigarette lighter or something. But dunno if it will handle the current.

With the bottom light diffused & the top throwing a big beam, its a wicked beam pattern all together.

Thinking about getting a small fan on the back to suck the heat out.


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## Flashanator (Jul 14, 2009)

The manufactures of the HID kit I brought told me that they shut off for a minute when they get too hot, bit of a relief :tinfoil: Operating temp is meant to be in the realm of 40 - 105 degrees C.


*EDIT*: In terms of using a fan. What would be better?

Having the fan suck air out of the box like an exhaust fan?
or
Blowing air inside the box from outside?

Need suggestions. Thanks.


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## BVH (Jul 14, 2009)

Based on what I see in most electronic equipment, cooling fans are extracting heated air out of a case. The air intake should be positioned in such a way to maximize air flow over the heat source and it needs to be big enough so negative pressure (vacuum) in not created in the case.


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## HKJ (Jul 15, 2009)

Flashanator said:


> *EDIT*: In terms of using a fan. What would be better?
> 
> Having the fan suck air out of the box like an exhaust fan?
> or
> Blowing air inside the box from outside?



Let the fan blow air into the box. The fan will move more air this way (Measured by mass) and the fan will have cooler working conditions.


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## yellow (Jul 15, 2009)

I bet on something to crack when the hid touches "something".

With heating up it might get a bit longer or increase diameter (when tight fit in new reflector) and thus might be enough,
if not a slight hit, or an even worse hit, will be enough.
At least for the HID-glass stick itself.

Glass does not bend well


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jul 15, 2009)

make sure it isn't sealed. People have used silicone sealant on automotive headlights and the stuff fogs up the lens with some kind of vapor. 

JBWeld is more permanent, but I don't know its electrical properties

It will not melt the front glass, as long as it's glass.

aftermarket HID capsules get hotter than name-brands, but still, you should be fine.


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## LightForce (Jul 15, 2009)

The HID lamp cannot melt glass at all. I use an UCL lens in my Mag T5 (35-45W at the lamp) without any problems. It is settled just 1 mm away from a return wire at the top of the lamp. Suprisingly, AR coating isn't affected by the lamp too. It has ~10-20 hrs of total burning time and the coating looks like new, so don't be afraid, lenses aren't so fragile. Don't use any epoxy or seals. Seals can melt and make a smoke inside of the reflector. Epoxed things can break becouse of heat expansion. HID isn't like a car exhaust pipe, it's fragile thing. Leave it free without epoxy and without seals and go home when it starts raining!


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## Flashanator (Jul 15, 2009)

Can the heat cause like "blacking" on the glass? 
One of my lens had a small (what looked like) brown burn mark on it right near the bulb. Dunno what it was.


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## Flashanator (Jul 15, 2009)

What about this kind of a fan mounted on the back??

Say have one fan sucking air out & one blowing it in? Plus there are small air vents on the side of the box.


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## Patriot (Jul 15, 2009)

Flashanator said:


> Can the heat cause like "blacking" on the glass?
> One of my lens had a small (what looked like) brown burn mark on it right near the bulb. Dunno what it was.




No, it won't blacken the glass or burn it. A mag 623 throw 3 times the heat of that light and doesn't hurt the glass bro. 





> What about this kind of a fan mounted on the back??
> 
> Say have one fan sucking air out & one blowing it in? Plus there are small air vents on the side of the box.




Personally, I would use a pair of 80mm computer case fans. The ones you have linked are very low volume hard drive fans.

*EDIT: *80mm case fans pull 40-50cfm, the linked fans only pull 9-18.


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## Patriot (Jul 15, 2009)

BVH said:


> Based on what I see in most electronic equipment, cooling fans are extracting heated air out of a case.




I'm with Bob on this one. I almost never see fans pushing air into a computer case, they're always pulling the air from it except for the side fan which is blowing directly onto the video card/s.


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## Flashanator (Jul 15, 2009)

Might go with this one.

Ill just add some more side vents.


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## Flashanator (Jul 16, 2009)

few beamshots. 

*we have ignition...*





:naughty:





*Massive Flood/Spill & Throw. Best of both Worlds.*






*The Hotspot is about ~90m away.*


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## Patriot (Jul 16, 2009)

That's a pretty smooth looking beam even from the upper, non-diffused portion. Nicely done. :thumbsup: Gonna share your secrets?


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## Flashanator (Jul 16, 2009)

Not Shore what secrets you mean?


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## Patriot (Jul 16, 2009)

Flashanator said:


> Not Shore what secrets you mean?




Oh you know, just curious about the build. What bulbs, reflectors, lenses, materials used, all the fun stuff...........


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## Flashanator (Jul 16, 2009)

lol how foolish of me. 

Box is made of Wood, coz I had nothing else to make it out of. No steel or wielder material etc. There's a back door hatch to access the bulbs etc. Which is where I want to mount the fans.






Simple 55w automotive H3 4300K Bulbs & Ballast. I used these as the power consumption is only 110watts.

Reflectors are about 4" from a cheap halogen spotlight. Reflectors fit in the holes very tight & are glued in. There is no way there ever coming out. lol

Some 14gauge wire, soldering & toggle switch & that's it pretty much it. Plus a lantern style handle on the top for easy carry.


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## BVH (Jul 16, 2009)

Flash, just a technical piece of info. If your ballasts actually provide 55 Watts to the bulb, your total power consumption is probably closer to 140 Watts based on an average 75% ballast efficiency.


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## Flashanator (Jul 16, 2009)

There the same as the ones the are 43watt at the bulb. Not sure if its 110w though?


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## BVH (Jul 16, 2009)

Oh, OK then they are about 55 Watts total consumption each.


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## Patriot (Jul 16, 2009)

It's cool Flash! Bright as heck and a total do-it-yourselfer. What prompted you to go with the red? Nothing wrong with it btw, just thought there might be a story behind it.

Did you say it had a handle?

What did you use for diffuser?


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## Flashanator (Jul 16, 2009)

hmm. I liked the look of this red as it reminded me of the old English phone booths. :laughing:

I just put one of those lantern style handles on the top, very easy to carry now.

And i had some lee filter material that i used as a diffuser, its almost as thin as paper. I stuck the thin material between two glass lens so it cant burn or get damaged if it got close to the hid bulb. plus most of the heat just goes through the material anyway.

the bulb in the diffused lamp has spaces to keep it a few mm from the lens.

i reckon using light steel you could make a really practical box, that would have a professional finish.


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## Flashanator (Jul 17, 2009)

wonder how many holes or vents ill need to add for the sucking power of a 120mm case fan with cfm of 45?


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## Patriot (Jul 17, 2009)

Flashanator said:


> wonder how many holes or vents ill need to add for the sucking power of a 120mm case fan with cfm of 45?




Probably not as many as you think. That assumes I know what you're thinking though, doesn't it.... you>:whoopin:<me....lol. 


Some small vents will allow a lot of air to pass since it just speeds up to go through the hole and slows back down once it's through. You could get away with 1/4 of the surface area of your fan for example and probably even less.


BTW, 45CFM is very low for a 120mm case fan. Most 80mm case fans will pull that.


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## Morepower! (Jul 17, 2009)

Flashanator said:


> hmm. I liked the look of this red as it reminded me of the old English phone booths. :laughing:


 
Lol, I know the one's your talking about. They were around when I was a kid. I like it, would be good for camping, etc. If you get sick of red and decide to change the colour to blue you could call it "The Tardis" (from Dr Who).


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## Flashanator (Jul 17, 2009)

Patriot, 40-45 seems to be the norm for the 120mm cases I see.

But. I reckon the larger cfm ones would be louder. 



Morepower! said:


> Lol, I know the one's your talking about. They were around when I was a kid. I like it, would be good for camping, etc. If you get sick of red and decide to change the colour to blue you could call it "The Tardis" (from Dr Who).



hehe :laughing: 

I actually thought about painting it army camo colours. But it was too hard, so red it was.


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## Flashanator (Jul 28, 2009)

Hey Patriot.

Do you know if those 12v Case fans can take 14.8v from I Li-Ion pack?

Just Curious as those packs can peak at 16v or so I heard.


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## Patriot (Jul 28, 2009)

Flashanator said:


> Hey Patriot.
> 
> Do you know if those 12v Case fans can take 14.8v from I Li-Ion pack?
> 
> Just Curious as those packs can peak at 16v or so I heard.






Fully charged a 4S pack is 16.8V

I'm going to guess that over the long hull 16.8V is too high.........it would probably run really good though  Only one way to find out. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811998124


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## Illum (Jul 28, 2009)

Flashanator said:


> *Yeah its a tight fit*, the bulb tip touches the glass lens.





Flashanator said:


> *Its not a tight fit* which is annoying too.



Which is it? :huh2:

the HID envelope is made of quartz glass...so, whether or not it will melt depends on what type of glass you chose to use as the window?


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## Patriot (Jul 28, 2009)

I think he was referring to the bulb base not fitting tightly Illum. 




Either way, no glass is going to melt that far away from the arc chamber. You'd have to drive a 35W bulb to say... (guessing) beyond 60-70W for the possibility of melting the electrode or envelope. Even then, the bulb would fail and shut of before the lens, being an inch away would melt. The predicted failure possibility would instead be the glass cracking but as long as you're using high temperature, borofloat glass, which it sound like you are, cracking likely won't occur either.


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## Flashanator (Jul 30, 2009)

When running the ballasts off the battery. They Voltage sags a little for the fans. I have 1x120mm fan & 2x 6mm small ones on each ballast for cooling.

But I have a total of 6 circular holes (~2cm Diameter each) drilled on the sides for air to be sucked in. Still isn't enough as the fan spins slower when the back hatch is closed as appose to open.

I doubt more holes will make a diff as going adding 3 more did jack!


Will this wear the fan out?


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## Patriot (Jul 30, 2009)

Flashanator said:


> I doubt more holes will make a diff as going adding 3 more did jack!
> 
> Will this wear the fan out?




I don't think so Flash. Those things are made to run a kazillian hours. A PC running for a couple months would put more hours on that fan than you will during years of HID use. I've had to replace several power supplies over the years but never a case cooling fan.

I wish I could see the 6mm fans. I don't think I've ever seen a fan that small. Did you mean to say 16mm?


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## Flashanator (Jul 30, 2009)

Hehe I know what you mean. I have been through 3 PSU in the last 4 years.

I think I was mistaken. The smaller fans might be 8mm.


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