# Day to Day - DN/Tenergy4P, FMA-Cellpro/HD6S and Voltcraft Balanced Sys. Charging



## petrev (Apr 17, 2007)

Hi 


*History . . .*

A few weeks ago Tronic discovered the Voltcraft Cradle as sold by Conrad {pick your site and search using *512034*} and posted about it in the LuxLuthor discussion thread about balance charging systems here. There has now been quite an extensive discussion about this cradle and the DN/Tenergy 4P and FMA-Cellpro chargers (reviewed here) and the parallel charging of various packs and cells. (there are also 37 pages dedicated to balance charging DN etc. on an RCGroup Forum thread

It has also spawned the excellent Voltcraft Li-Ion Battery Holder - Newbie Modding Guide

CY has also posted a cautionary thread warning about the dangers of LiIon charging here

*Now . . .*

The Kit


DN/Tenergy 4P 2A Parallel Charger ~ $80 (inc. adaptors) Here and Here
(Prices vary depending on adapters chosen - check postage and availability before order !) 
Tenergy 5A Power Supply ~ $20 + Postage

Tenergy + PS Bundle ~ $95 Here +Postage and any adapters

FMA-CellPro-4S 3A Balance Charger ~$65 Here (not owned by me)

FMA-BalancePro-6S 10A Balance Charger ~$105 Here

Voltcraft Cradle 4x Round Cell ~€13 as sold by Conrad {pick your site and search using *512034*} not available direct to Conus


*How it Works . . .*

Some people expressed concerns that the 5A Switch mode power supply might not be up to the job ! 
So first test using this setup with a clamp meter on the PS, and a Fluke meter in-line with cell1.

4x AW C cells empty - Charging at 2A (1.96A meter) and PS running at 3.9A (clamp on 10mV/Amp setting)
[URL="http://imageshack.us"]

[/URL]

So no problems there - even ran at 5.5A with my FMA-6S charging 4 cells at 3.2A with no apparent worries so my guess is it may well power the FMA-CellPro4S as well at 4cellsx3A



I normally run my FMA-6S on an 8A transformer type power supply so rather impressed that the cheap little Tenergy PS worked so well.

This is my test rig for the FMA-6S showing set at 2A with a 1.97A flow registering.
[URL="http://imageshack.us"]

[/URL]

The serial link software is the only way to set charge rate accurately on the FMA-6S as the rotary pot is quite sensitive and easy to move accidentally. The scale on the pot gives no real hint of where 3A might be but does show the A123 position for if/when any useful sizes appear in that formulation.

Back to the DN/Tenergy 4P

Neat things about this charger are the display which shows Voltage and relative charge (very approximately) of any inserted cell in the charge cradle - so you can use it as a simple battery checker if needed.

and the ability to start and stop charging on the button - for example you can load in some random cells and start charging at an appropriate rate for the smallest cell - then when any cells are charged -OK- stop and just remove them and continue setting a higher rate if desired for the remaining cells

Ready to charge at 1.2A (Actually all pretty much charged - Demo photo)
Note: Voltcraft Cradle with modified neg posts to fit longer cells.
[URL="http://imageshack.us"]

[/URL]

Whip one out and carry on - charging raised to 2A
[URL="http://imageshack.us"]

[/URL]

Display showing 2 charged and 2 charging (reduced rate nearing end of charge)
[URL="http://imageshack.us"]

[/URL]

The little meter bars show relative charge before charging - fill up . reset . fill up - to show charging active and stop at full when charged - Also says OK when ~98%full but carries on slow charging to 100% then stops fully.

When all the cells are charged to 98%+ the displays all show OK and the beeper starts to go off.
[URL="http://imageshack.us"]

[/URL]

The cells not at 100% continue to charge and the beeper continues to go off every 90seconds for TEN BEEPS - and its really loud - and have I said it's really LOUD and it goes on for ever . . . but you will never miss the end of charge with this charger. Some people block the beeper ! 

But really the last 2% is not much to worry about and using both the DN/Tenergy4P and the FMA-6S I find it best to stop at 98% anyway - the last little bit can take ages . . .

*In Use . . .*

The DN/Tenergy +PS +Voltcraft Combo is very much "plug and play" the only proviso is don't set too high a charge rate for your smallest cell as all cells charge at the same maximum rate.

Another neat thing is that you can charge a pack using one of the dedicated white sockets say a 2s or 3s with balancing (or _without_ at your own risk) and still use the Voltcraft to charge another cell (or 2) in any free channel.

The manual that comes with the DN/Tenergy can be either a Chinglish one (DN) or a better English translated version (Tenergy) but the circuit diagrams in both are still slightly wrong in their cell numbering. These are corrected diagrams 




 . 



. . . hope that helps to wire up any special cables.

*How does the DN/Tenergy compare to the FMA-CellPro 4S and 6S*

The two four cell chargers look at first quite similar but are actually quite different.

The DN is in a robust metal case while the CellPro4S is two boards and some heat shrink ! but it does look like it works ! ! ! There are holes for air in the DN case !

The DN has the Green Plug which makes making up special leads or cables very simple and a plethora of white sockets too. The CellPro single output plug can be made to fit anything too but you need to make a dedicated lead up.

When used with the Voltcraft cradle the DN is plug and play - just fill as many bays as you like. 
Using the FMA-Cellpro chargers means fitting the correct tails to the cradle depending on number in use - the last POS must always be the Charger POS so you have to move it to the relevant position. 

But the 4S does charge at a max rate of 3A . . .
It has full status display via the LCD screen using the mode button to switch info. Indeed pack charge level (fuel level) and added Amp-hours are additionally available on this display.

I don't have an FMA-CellPro4S so this is from the excellent review by TrexTuning.com


TrexTuning.com said:


> see Full Professional Review - CellPro System at www.trextuning.com
> 
> Excerpt
> 
> ...


 
How the Voltcraft works with the FMA chargers and different numbers of cells

Tails fitted for 3 cells - FMA-Voltcraft
[URL="http://imageshack.us"]

[/URL]

but . . .with the FMA-6S you can do 6 cells at once (and you could charge at even higher rates if needed ? D Cells ? with upgraded wiring in the cradle of course)

[URL="http://imageshack.us"]

[/URL]

How about charge times I hear you ask ?

Well for charging 4 C-cells at 2A this is how it works . . .

Take 4 C cells - relatively similar discharge states - eg. they all came from the same flashlight.

DN/Tenergy to 98% 120minutes

FMA-BalancePro 6S to 98% 96minutes
probably the same sort of time for the CellPro4S

The FMA is faster and can charge at a higher rate still giving
Time to 98% @ 3A as around 60minutes.









But when it comes to really seriously unbalanced cells - like we get when charging cells from different flashlights then the picture changes dramatically.
The FMA chargers fast charge until one cell reaches 4.2V and then balances the charge between the cells this can mean that charge current overall is very low as the shunts transfer the current - this means that charge time can extend massively as all the low charge cells are now only getting reduced current that drops from 3A to 1.5A quite quickly then reduces more to 0.4-0.8A instead of the 3A expected. What the FMAs see as a "bad pack" however is repaired - it just takes time. 

Answer for rapid charging - always charge similar state cells together.

4 seriously missmatched 17650s (from graphical software for FMA chargers )
[URL="http://imageshack.us"]

[/URL]

With the DN - so what if one cell is fully charged - that channel just switches off and the remaining channels charge at their max rate (up to 2A) for each cells condition - overall charge time for all the cells is just the longest charge time - and you could remove charged cells and use them at any time.

This goes back to the original design purpose of the charger - Pack charging with balancing - Packs are kept more in balance at any time during their charge cycle in the FMAs so that if a pack is taken off charge early then it will be reasonably in balance at that time.

The FMAs also have the ability to resurrect very over-discharged cells that the DN/Tenergy will refuse to charge.

It all comes down to personal choice, expected use and acceptable compromises.

If you want a drop in charge system that just works and is almost thought free then the DN/Tenergy fits the bill. 
For larger cells with faster charging (as long as all the cells are from the same flashlight - hence at about the same state) then the FMA-CellPro4S does the job and can use the cheap PS from the DN/T no problem.

Personally I want a 6 (8) channel parallel charger that charges at up to 10A (A123 included) and will resurrect badly discharged cells, with a switchable back-lit LCD with full status per channel, a big green screw terminal output socket, computer link and graphing software, switchable beep warning tone and flashing LED status lights, auto detect capacity - charge rate function (forgot to mention the CellPro4S has that at 1.4 and 1C preset) for selectable 0.5 to 1.5C charge rate (preferably at a per channel level ! ! !), selectable cut off 4.1V/4.2V/? 

and really cheap 

And a really cheap, good power supply 

And a true universal LiIon charge cradle supporting up to 10A (but cheap too) for all sizes and shapes

And . . .

This may well be updated again but that's about it for now . . .

Happy Charging
Pete

.
.

*Update : e-Station BC-6 and Aircraft800 Charger Mod*

Aircraft800's Cheap NiCd/Mh Charger Mod 


Aircraft800 said:


> Finally finished making my charging adapter. It took me a lot longer than I hoped, but the final product is AWESOME!
> 
> I made a removable balance plug out the left side so my Li-Ion's can be happy, and added Charging lead jacks at each station for multiple cell charging. I can charge Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh 1-4 series if I disconnect the balance plug.
> 
> ...


.

The e-station BC6 AC/DC alternative for all std. chemistries


Aircraft800 said:


> cat said:
> 
> 
> > LuxLuthor's second pass used the flat connector / JST connector on the Tenergy to one fitted into the side of the Voltcraft ...I was thinking that then you wouldn't have to connect the leads to the appropriate jacks on the Voltcraft (like for 2 or 4 cells) - or was that setup only for 4 cells?
> ...


 
.

Cheap NiCd/Mh Charger Sources


Aircraft800 said:


> I sourced a few more of these UNIVERSAL Chargers, all priced to MOD! Or just copy the key words and Google.....
> 
> Vanson V-1199 AA AAA C D 9V NiMH & NiCd Rechargeable Battery Charger
> http://batteryjunction.com/vavaaaaacd9v.html
> ...


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## icantsee (Apr 17, 2007)

This post mentions a $20 discount on the FMA 6S Balance-Pro until April 27.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671185#post7267744

As mentioned, maybe an LCD equipped unit is near?

John


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## cue003 (Apr 17, 2007)

I have been away for a couple of days.... are the cradles now able to be shipped to the US?


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## petrev (Apr 18, 2007)

cue003 said:


> I have been away for a couple of days.... are the cradles now able to be shipped to the US?



Hi cue

No - still need to get a group buy together for Conus supply - I believe Tronic has offered to send some to members in US if someone can do US forwarding. Postage costs quite high (but not totally prohibitive) - better in larger numbers - I believe.

I posted 3 to the US and it was almost $40 postage. Tronic seems to be able to get the cost down for more at once.

Cheers Pete


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## petrev (Apr 18, 2007)

icantsee said:


> This post mentions a $20 discount on the FMA 6S Balance-Pro until April 27.
> 
> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671185#post7267744
> 
> ...




Good news (well spotted)

and 

Good news  

Cheers Pete


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## cy (Apr 18, 2007)

nice job!!!


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## petrev (Apr 18, 2007)

cy said:


> nice job!!!



Thanks cy

Slightly updated post #1

Pete


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## dca2 (Apr 18, 2007)

Thanks ALOT Pete. I've got the TN coming, now for a Voltcraft group buy


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## Josey (Apr 18, 2007)

Awesome thread, Petrev. Thank you.


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## jch79 (Apr 18, 2007)

Yep - what they all said - great job.

I have my AW C cells sitting in a Pelican box, waiting to be charged up! You guys are all doing a great service for all Li-Ion users! Thanks!

 john


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 19, 2007)

WoW! Petrev, you just wrote the "Bible" on everything that is available about balanced charging and options with Li-Ions. Really great information here.

I'll post some pictures of my charging setup with Hyperion & balancer with 2nd cradle setup in the next day or two.

I'm trying to get a bunch of sticks in the fire for universal cradles, but these things move slow. I do think there are adequate charger options now that will do safe balanced charging. I still think the best option as a package charger/power supply is the DN/Tenergy combo for the average user. It's still loads faster than the 600 mA 2 slot Pila charger, and not that many are going to spring for the more advanced charger.

Next project I'm starting on is making some balance charging leads for some FM battery holders that will come out the tailcap.


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## cue003 (Apr 19, 2007)

Pete, thanks for the info. PM sent your way last night. not sure if you got it.

Curtis


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## petrev (Apr 21, 2007)

Hi

Added another comparison graph





. . .

I agree with Lux on the great plug and play - drop in - nature of the DN/TE +PS +Voltcraft. Great combo for everyday use - It's great to just throw a couple of cells in, dial up the current rate and push the start button. Go away and do some chores around the house and when the alarm-level bleeper goes off you know they are done !

. . .


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## DeLighted (Jun 8, 2007)

This and the first thread on these charging setups are a wealth of knowledge. I want to build a couple.
I haven't seen anything on a group buy or a source for the VoltCraft Cradle. Is there a source to get a couple of these in the U.S. ?
:thinking:

Thanks


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## SilverFox (Jun 8, 2007)

Hello Pete,

Somehow, I missed this write up. It is excellent. Thanks for putting this information together.

It is interesting to observe the differences between the two chargers.

When you pull the cells at 98% charged and let them sit for around 15 minutes, what are you getting for open circuit resting voltages?

Tom


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## petrev (Jun 8, 2007)

SilverFox said:


> Hello Pete,
> 
> Somehow, I missed this write up. It is excellent. Thanks for putting this information together.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Tom

4.163V - 4.165V

Hope that tells you something !

Cheers Pete


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## SilverFox (Jun 8, 2007)

Hello Pete,

Thanks.

Yes it does.  

Tom


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## petrev (Jun 8, 2007)

SilverFox said:


> Hello Pete,
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ...



Intriguing :thinking:

Care 2 share ?

Pete


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## SilverFox (Jun 8, 2007)

Hello Pete,

I have been evaluating a formula that predicts the state of charge based on resting voltage.

Your cells work out to around 96% charged. If you were shooting for 98%, you are very close.

Tom


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## Tronic (Jun 9, 2007)

DeLighted said:


> This and the first thread on these charging setups are a wealth of knowledge. I want to build a couple.
> I haven't seen anything on a group buy or a source for the VoltCraft Cradle. Is there a source to get a couple of these in the U.S. ?
> :thinking:
> Thanks


PM sent...

More information for other interested people follow soon.


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## petrev (Jun 9, 2007)

Tronic said:


> PM sent...
> 
> More information for other interested people follow soon.



Nice One 

Big Thanks to Tronic


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## petrev (Jun 9, 2007)

SilverFox said:


> Hello Pete,
> 
> I have been evaluating a formula that predicts the state of charge based on resting voltage.
> 
> ...



That's Cool

The DN starts bleeping at 98% and the FMA-6S starts rapid flashing or states "Top Off" in software at 98%

Cheers Pete


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## SilverFox (Jun 9, 2007)

Hello Pete,

If you want to play... here is the formula:

SOC% = 100(0.1966+SquareRoot(0.0387-1.4523(3.7835-Vcell)))

Tom


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## petrev (Jun 9, 2007)

SilverFox said:


> Hello Pete,
> 
> If you want to play... here is the formula:
> 
> ...


 

Ta

:twothumbs


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## Tronic (Jun 9, 2007)

I can offer the following:

Voltcraft Cradle $19/piece

Shipping option:

Option 1:
Economy Mail with insurance and Tracking to USA (takes 7-15 day to arrrive)
1 Cradle $21.50
2-3 Cradle $33

Option 2:
Priority Mail with insurance and Tracking to USA (takes 3-7 day to arrrive)
1 Cradle $33.50
2-3 Cradle $44

Note: I can only ship up to 3 Cradle in one package.*


Payment with Paypal only.

Paypal Cash: Add 2.5% (currency conversion fee)
Paypal CC: Add 5.9% + $0.45 (Paypal and currency conversion fee)

I am very busy at the moment and it can take 2-3 days until I ship the package.


Who is still interested?

-Daniel


*Up to 3 Cradle can be shipped as letter and it can simply be declared with the CN22 customs form.
But there is a 2kg limit and everything over that must be sent as a package and have to be declared with a way-bill.
unfortunately I dont have any experiences with this and dont know how to do this. 
But If you need more than 3 just let me know and I will check this with my post office.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 11, 2007)

Tronic said:


> I can offer the following:
> 
> Voltcraft Cradle $19/piece
> 
> ...



I got 3 Voltcraft cradles from Petrev and 3 from Tronic. Tronic was fast and a bit cheaper, and arrived in perfect condition. I'm sure this is a bit of a hassle for Daniel to do this (go buy them, package up, take to post office), but this is currently the best deal for anyone wanting to have a great way to balance charge their Li-Ion cells.

Thanks for doing this Daniel.

Just to clarify...if someone wants to order three it would be:

* $19 x 3 = $57 
+ $33 S&H 
Subtotal = $90 

+ $2.25 (2.5% of $90 for PayPal Fee) 

**Grand Total $92.25


.
*​


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## Nebula (Jun 11, 2007)

Daniel - I am in for 2 + 3 of the single battery holders if you can get them. If you need the model number for the single holder, let me know and I will dig it up. Please PM with the total cost shipped to Virginia, USA. Also, if you need my contact information to calculate shipping let me know and I will PM. Thanks so much for making these available. Kirk


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## Tronic (Jun 11, 2007)

Nebula said:


> Daniel - I am in for 2 + 3 of the single battery holders if you can get them. If you need the model number for the single holder, let me know and I will dig it up. Please PM with the total cost shipped to Virginia, USA. Also, if you need my contact information to calculate shipping let me know and I will PM. Thanks so much for making these available. Kirk


Hi Kirk

The model number for the single holder is 512038-62.
Price is $11/piece

PM sent with total cost.

-Daniel


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## Nebula (Jun 11, 2007)

Daniel - PM replied. PP inbound shortly. Thanks again. Kirk


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## Mark_Paulus (Jun 18, 2007)

Daniel,

I am interested in getting 3 of the Voltcraft cradles. Can you send me you paypal addy, so I can send payment?

Thanks.


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## Tronic (Jun 18, 2007)

Mark_Paulus said:


> Daniel,
> 
> I am interested in getting 3 of the Voltcraft cradles. Can you send me you paypal addy, so I can send payment?
> 
> Thanks.


PM sent. 
Thanks!


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## Tronic (Jun 18, 2007)

I will move my offer to the CPFMP soon, that it is on the right place.


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## gswitter (Jun 19, 2007)

I'm interested in three of the 4-cell cradles, if the offer's still open. PM sent.

Edit: chargers -> cradles


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## vetkaw63 (Jun 20, 2007)

gswitter,
I hope you understand that these are just the cradle. They hold four batteries but, you still need to buy a charger.
Mike


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## gswitter (Jun 20, 2007)

My brain understood it, but I guess my fingers had their own idea. Chalk it up to multitasking. I was typing that post, PPing & PMing Tronic, and placing an order for a DN/Tenergy at the same time.

Before yesterday, I hadn't checked up on this thread in a month. Needless to say, I was rather happy to find Daniel was willing to purchase and ship the Volcraft cradles to the US.


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## barkingmad (Jun 20, 2007)

How much for 1 x Voltcraft Cradle shipped to the UK? Thanks...


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## petrev (Jun 21, 2007)

barkingmad said:


> How much for 1 x Voltcraft Cradle shipped to the UK? Thanks...



Hi Barking

You could go to www.conrad.com and hit the Union Jack icon to go to the UK site and search on *Part no.: 512034 - 62* 
Postage is £5.99 (saves Tronic a trip to his local store)

Cheers Pete


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## barkingmad (Jun 22, 2007)

petrev said:


> Hi Barking
> 
> You could go to www.conrad.com and hit the Union Jack icon to go to the UK site and search on *Part no.: 512034 - 62*
> Postage is £5.99 (saves Tronic a trip to his local store)
> ...


 
Great - thanks for the tip! :twothumbs


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## vleong1 (Jul 7, 2007)

If each cell is being charged at 2.0A in parallel, isn't the total current being pulled 8.0A's?


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## petrev (Jul 7, 2007)

vleong1 said:


> If each cell is being charged at 2.0A in parallel, isn't the total current being pulled 8.0A's?



Hi

DN charger ?
Short answer - Yes and No !

Sorry can't give very full answer as am on my PDA. Each Parallel charger is stacked on top of the previous one so for 4 cells 2A flows through the stack of cells with a overall Vnominal of 16.8V - node wires carry 0A if all cells equal !
If say only 2 cells in slots 1 and 4 then 0/Neg and node 1 wires carry 2A and so do node 3 and node4/Pos wires each driven at 4.2V.

Hope this helps
Pete


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## vleong1 (Jul 10, 2007)

petrev said:


> Hi
> 
> DN charger ?
> Short answer - Yes and No !
> ...


 
DN charger.
Sorry I'm new to all this. Are you comparing 4 cells "stacked" vs 2 cells independantly?

This is what's in my mind:
4 cells independantly = 4.2V, 2.0A to each cell, = 8.0A's total?
4 cells "stacked" = 16.8V, 2.0A


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## petrev (Jul 10, 2007)

vleong1 said:


> DN charger.
> Sorry I'm new to all this. Are you comparing 4 cells "stacked" vs 2 cells independantly?
> 
> This is what's in my mind:
> ...


 
Hi

With the DN the Charge Circuits are in parallel and the cells are in series.

A max of 2A flows in any one circuit and any one charging wire.

Back of an envelope diagram . . .





All values nominal/guess ! ! ! for illustration purposes only . . .

Cheers Pete
:thinking:


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## Bogus1 (Jul 10, 2007)

Hi Pete,

Great work in this thread!

Where do you get the connectors you are using between the Voltcraft and the DN charger? 

Thanks


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## petrev (Jul 10, 2007)

Bogus1 said:


> Hi Pete,
> 
> Great work in this thread!
> 
> ...



Hi 

Easiest method is use 3 500mm long 2.5mmsq silicon or PVC test leads with stacking 4mm Jacks - cut each in half for bare ends to jack and wire to DN green plug. I have used appropriate colours as required to make it more fun but red and black work just fine . . .

Alternatively can make leads from components as described.

Hope all makes sense !
Cheers Pete


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## vleong1 (Jul 10, 2007)

petrev said:


> Hi
> 
> With the DN the Charge Circuits are in parallel and the cells are in series.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Pete. All makes perfect sense. 
Any shipping to Canada (1 voltcraft cradle)?


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 10, 2007)

Pete, I can't believe you didn't include the electric generating plant in your diagram showing how it gets into the "grid" !! LOL! Just kidding you, of course. 

Oh, I have to show you some pictures of some of my new developments, charger interface, and Lithium packs with balance tap leads.


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## petrev (Jul 10, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> Pete, I can't believe you didn't include the electric generating plant in your diagram showing how it gets into the "grid" !! LOL! Just kidding you, of course.
> 
> Oh, I have to show you some pictures of some of my new developments, charger interface, and Lithium packs with balance tap leads.



Hi Lux 

Almost put on the generating bit but . . .
Wind,Solar,Gas,Hydro,Nuclear,Coal,Oil all those step up transformers . . .

Lets see those new photos Lux !

Hi vleong1,

PM Tronic for cradles to Canada - He's doing a great offer for all Conus Flashaholics.

Cheers Pete


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## DeLighted (Jul 28, 2007)

Hi Petrev,
What are you using for the 12v 5a Power Supply?

Thanks,
Kent


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 28, 2007)

Kent the Tenergy/DN charger 12V/5A combo package is here.


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## petrev (Jul 28, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> Kent the Tenergy/DN charger 12V/5A combo package is here.



Thanks Lux

Thats the one - available in the package or separately !

Cheers Pete


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## Tronic (Jul 28, 2007)

I know this is maybe a bit too late, but ...

After reading a lot about custom forms, way-bill and talking to my local post office I should now be able to ship large quantities of the Voltcraft cradle to the US.
Is there a US member that would coordinate this and could distribute the cradles to interested CPF members?
Is there still enough interest for a GB?

-Daniel


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## cy (Jul 28, 2007)

have not checked this thread for a bit.... looks like you guys have really taken this concept and come up with a workable solution!

good job!

for my personal needs, I've gone to almost all 1x li-ion lights. 
schulze w/22amp PS has been doing single li-ion cells duties only. 

otherwise I'd be getting in on a multi cell cradle.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 28, 2007)

Tronic said:


> I know this is maybe a bit too late, but ...
> 
> After reading a lot about custom forms, way-bill and talking to my local post office I should now be able to ship large quantities of the Voltcraft cradle to the US.
> Is there a US member that would coordinate this and could distribute the cradles to interested CPF members?
> ...



Probably worth starting a feeler thread to see interest level. I think it almost needs to include the Tenergy package for new users...and I would guess those using a number of AW's C Li-Ions would find it a convenient alternative.


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## dougforehand (Jul 30, 2007)

Tronic said:


> I know this is maybe a bit too late, but ...
> 
> After reading a lot about custom forms, way-bill and talking to my local post office I should now be able to ship large quantities of the Voltcraft cradle to the US.
> Is there a US member that would coordinate this and could distribute the cradles to interested CPF members?
> ...



I'm intereseted in 3 of them.

Thanks
-Doug


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## barkingmad (Jul 30, 2007)

From what I can tell the DN/Tenergy4P supports Li-ion and Li-Po batteries - but not LiFEPO4 - can anyone confirm this?


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## petrev (Jul 30, 2007)

barkingmad said:


> From what I can tell the DN/Tenergy4P supports Li-ion and Li-Po batteries - but not LiFEPO4 - can anyone confirm this?


 
Hi

If LiFEPO4 is the A123 lower voltage safe chemistry then no - the FMACellpro models are the ones to choose for the A123 cells. The cells from DeWalt packs are normal charging types (Emoli ?) as far as I remember.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong 

Cheers Pete


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## barkingmad (Jul 30, 2007)

Anyone know the best way to silence (or greatly quieten) the beeper on the DN/Tenergy4P - it is 'really' loud and goes off over and over.

A bit of tape over the buzzer helps but wondered what other options people recommend?


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## Tronic (Jul 30, 2007)

barkingmad said:


> Anyone know the best way to silence (or greatly quieten) the beeper on the DN/Tenergy4P - it is 'really' loud and goes off over and over.
> 
> A bit of tape over the buzzer helps but wondered what other options people recommend?


I have put some of this flexible glue in the hole (and inside) of the beeper of my Hyperion charger. :naughty:


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 30, 2007)

petrev said:


> Hi
> 
> If LiFEPO4 is the A123 lower voltage safe chemistry then no - the FMACellpro models are the ones to choose for the A123 cells. The cells from DeWalt packs are normal charging types (Emoli ?) as far as I remember.
> 
> ...



Emoli cells are used in Milwaukee tool packs. A123 are used in Dewalt packs. Special charger needed for A123. Brief summary of the two cells at this link: http://bigerc.com/index.php


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## petrev (Jul 31, 2007)

Thanks Lux


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## barkingmad (Aug 6, 2007)

barkingmad said:


> Anyone know the best way to silence (or greatly quieten) the beeper on the DN/Tenergy4P - it is 'really' loud and goes off over and over.
> 
> A bit of tape over the buzzer helps but wondered what other options people recommend?


 
Well the tape did not do enough to quieten / silence it - so I opened it up and desoldered / removed the buzzer - put it all back together again and it still works! 

Anyone know any reason NOT to do this?


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## petrev (Sep 24, 2007)

barkingmad said:


> Well the tape did not do enough to quieten / silence it - so I opened it up and desoldered / removed the buzzer - put it all back together again and it still works!
> 
> Anyone know any reason NOT to do this?


 
*No*

:thumbsup: :twothumbs


:sleepy:


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 24, 2007)

It's just there for a safety reminder. As such, I prefer to muffle it...but it is your choice. :kiss:


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## Tidra (Oct 23, 2007)

wow, what a nice writeup,...

Thank you, Petrev, Lux and all the others

but, there is always a but,... I am totally new in Li-Ion, read a lot about safety and all this stuff, I am building myself a bike light and I need something to charge a pack of Li-Ion's like this one

https://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1145

because there is only two wires, I am pretty shore, that the cells in pack are in 2s 3p

or do you suggest me that I build a pack myself with lets says six of those

https://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1952

and install the third wire for balanced charging,…


I am looking for 7.4V and 4400mAh or 6600mAh battery.
If I understand correctly the balanced charging in my case would be something like that,…





Thank you
Iztok


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## petrev (Oct 24, 2007)

Hi Tidra,

You have it just about sorted. Some of the 2200mAh cells actually work better at higher current drain than the larger 18650 cells. That pack seems like a reasonable solution and should work well without balancing but for added security/longevity you can indeed just add the third wire as per your diags for a centre tap. Should be quite easy !?

Have fun
Pete


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 25, 2007)

Iztok, the pack with the 2 wires uses a built in PCB and welded connections to achieve a reasonable amount of protections & by putting cells in parallel which keeps those cells in parallel equalized. Look at the images I took of the battery pack from my XeRay spotlight to see what I mean.

The individual cells would need a battery contact strip welder, since it is not safe to *solder (high heat) *Lithium Cobalt cells...and their individual cost would be more expensive anyway.


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## Tidra (Oct 25, 2007)

Lux, you got me there,... I didn't understand nothing you try to explain with your picture, but thanks anyway,...

Correct me if I am wrong, but from description of the battery I realize that this individual cell is unprotected, but all together they are protected with PCB IC,...

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2271

I think this would be O.K. for my 4x SSC P4 bike light,…


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## cat (Nov 9, 2007)

So (having read too much about charging Li-ions over the past couple of weeks), it seems to me that maybe I should get one of the DN/Tenergy chargers instead of the Ultrafire 139. 

I need to be able to charge 2 AW C cells and AW RCR123's. With either the modified Voltex cradle or 2 of the Litemania units. 
Can I use a computer PSU with the Tenergy charger? As far as I know (trying to remember) they have .5V outputs (no use here) and...I forget what else, but someone here posted a photo showing their setup with a computer PSU.

PS: LuxLuthor, I just now read your power supply / "Which Mastech...", and I quickly read some of the mpoweruk stuff, but they don't go as far as listing anything in the various categories, that I could use as an example.


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## petrev (Nov 9, 2007)

Tidra said:


> Lux, you got me there,... I didn't understand nothing you try to explain with your picture, but thanks anyway,...
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but from description of the battery I realize that this individual cell is unprotected, but all together they are protected with PCB IC,...
> 
> ...


 
Should be fine . . .

Nice little pack - saves any problems wiring it together an wraping it - best option as has protection circuit built in too !

Pete


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## petrev (Nov 9, 2007)

Double Post
OOPS

Pete


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## Aircraft800 (Nov 9, 2007)

cat said:


> So (having read too much about charging Li-ions over the past couple of weeks), it seems to me that maybe I should get one of the DN/Tenergy chargers instead of the Ultrafire 139.
> 
> I need to be able to charge 2 AW C cells and AW RCR123's. With either the modified Voltex cradle or 2 of the Litemania units.
> Can I use a computer PSU with the Tenergy charger? As far as I know (trying to remember) they have .5V outputs (no use here) and...I forget what else, but someone here posted a photo showing their setup with a computer PSU.
> ...


 
Hey Cat,

I use my PC power supply to power my charger, it works great at 12V. There was a great tutoral here on how to convert it by Mod A Mag:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/94828

I also use a Modified Cradle like the Voltcraft seen Here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/175301

Also you can see the Tenergy charger at work.

The guide by LuxLuthor can be found here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/160942

Good Luck!


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## petrev (Nov 9, 2007)

cat said:


> So (having read too much about charging Li-ions over the past couple of weeks), it seems to me that maybe I should get one of the DN/Tenergy chargers instead of the Ultrafire 139.
> 
> I need to be able to charge 2 AW C cells and AW RCR123's. With either the modified Voltex cradle or 2 of the Litemania units.
> Can I use a computer PSU with the Tenergy charger? As far as I know (trying to remember) they have .5V outputs (no use here) and...I forget what else, but someone here posted a photo showing their setup with a computer PSU.
> ...


 
Hi 

The DN/Tenergy charger with C-Lions will be much quicker (2A vs ~.45A) with a suitable cradle or such. 

Abinok made some neat adapters for the UF-139 but they are sold out. You may be able to see how they work - very neat idea.

Computer PSUs have 12V out on Yellow wire - not sure how much you can draw though ? Probably depends on PSU ! ! !

Over to Lux . . .

Cheers Pete


ps. lots of cheap power supplies on e-bay
Search : AC 12V Power Supply
eg. This one . . .

Choose your preferred country - 
Quite a few seem very similar to the All-Battery DN-Power Supply but looks can be deceptive . . .
Good Luck


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 9, 2007)

petrev said:


> Over to Lux . . .
> 
> Cheers Pete



What? Suddenly I have the "CON". I never drove one of these submarines before. :laughing:


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## petrev (Nov 9, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> What? Suddenly I have the "CON". I never drove one of these submarines before. :laughing:



You have the Con - Deep Star Submersible Mastech

:twothumbs

Cheers Pete


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## cat (Nov 10, 2007)

Thanks, guys. Weeks of reading about charging and I hadn't found that PSU thread. 

I didn't know it needed any modifying. I have a big, about 300W, good name brand PSU in a computer I built about 5 years ago that's been standing unused for about 4 years. So I thought if I get the Tenergy from b-p-p, free shipping, surely the big metal computer PSU's with a fan are better and more powerful than the plastic box type. ;-) 

The C cell holders... Yes, I've seen the ones that fit into the Ultrafire charger and the ones offered with the little C cell chargers. I looked at them in a radio/electronics store here a few days ago - the same thing you see everywhere, but the only C cell ones they had were 2 cell serial ones. But finding those is not going to be impossible, if I don't get one of the Voltcraft ones. Or otherwise the clamp option, temporarily. It's probably more important for me to have something to hold RCR123's, at first. The C cells are just 2 that will be used in a Mag61. 

I see - or at least I think I do - in the photo of the Triton there, that it's 3A. Maybe that gets it to .7C for the C cells. So I need to go read about the Triton now. 

Yes, re the charge time with the DN/Tenergy vs the W-139, but I'm more concerned about what it does when the battery's charged - and the longer it takes, the more difficult it is to be there. (Yes, I've been thinking about it for weeks - the cheap Ultrafire vs the $80+ that could be spent on flashlights.) :sigh:


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## j3bnl (Nov 10, 2007)

Has any of the experts in these set-ups thought of making these as a complete ready to go kit?
By that I mean all the required parts charger, cradle etc already wired,assembled and ready to use.
I for one would be very interested as I dont have the time or knowledge to DIY it myself. :mecry:
I have around 8 different chargers that I use currently to charge the various cells and a one charger does all would certainly be a big improvement. :twothumbs


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## Rommul (Nov 10, 2007)

I second this notion


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 11, 2007)

LOL! Yeah, I thought about doing a couple Voltcraft + Tenergy charger setups, but then I got distracted by making battery packs and testing incan bulbs.


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## beetleguise (Nov 11, 2007)

I am in the process of doing my first serious led mod, but I was planning on modding some cradles for people who are interested. Give me a couple of weeks and PM me!
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/175301
I have some photos in this thread of the finished product.


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## cat (Nov 12, 2007)

:thumbsup: Good to have the circular/cross-links, especially for those who come later. 

The initial problem re the modified cradles was that the Voltcraft cradles were from a supplier in Europe that doesn't ship internationally, so Tronic 
and Petrev were kindly sending them (and modifiying them - I'm not sure.) 
Then the Lenmar cradles (which are, apparently, the same thing) were found in the USA. 
So (LuxLuthor and beetleguise) you're probably referring to the Lenmar...? 

I don't see that there's any need to include the charger in a bundle. Connecting them is simple enough (given suitable jumper leads) and the connections aren't permanent. There are several suitable chargers [for Li-ion] and some people will want to use the cradles for NiMH as well. And some people who are already using a Triton [or something other than the cheap "wall wart" kind] with a clamp or magnets to connect to the battteries would also want to buy a modified Lenmar/Voltcraft cradle. 


_Thanks to all (Petrev, LuxLuthor, aircraft800, modamod, et al) for all the explanations and photos. :thumbsup: _I really need to ...uhh, _curtail_ the addiction-obsession a bit, and I've considered - for too long :laughing: - the option of using an Ultrafire W-139, but I think if I did that I might end up getting a better charger anyway. :laughing: As it is, I have a little Energizer AA/AAA charger, a "digital" Energizer AA/AAA charger, a Wolf Eyes 16850 charger, and....too many "wall wart" transformer things. Hey, at least - maybe - if I get a Tenergy charger and a Lenmar cradle to modify, and modify the nice PSU that's going to waste in my dead computer, and get some nice red and black banana jacks, I might not buy any lights for a while.


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## j3bnl (Nov 12, 2007)

cat said:


> :thumbsup: Good to have the circular/cross-links, especially for those who come later.
> 
> The initial problem re the modified cradles was that the Voltcraft cradles were from a supplier in Europe that doesn't ship internationally, so Tronic
> and Petrev were kindly sending them (and modifiying them - I'm not sure.)
> ...


 

I was only talking about these "ready to use kits" as a possible option if someone with more time than myself was prepared to make them up. 
It could perhaps be an option to include the charger and all leads and connections etc or just the pre-modded cradles. Then the individual could make that choice and obviously pay for the privelege of having to do no work on it at all just plug it in, insert batteries and away you go.


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## cat (Nov 14, 2007)

Yes, I'm keen to get one of the cradles modifed for me. and pay for the work. 

I'd be ok to take on the wiring part of it, but not the modifying of the sliding connectors. (For the time being, my workshop consists of the garage floor. Nowhere to set things up. All my tools and equipment are stored in boxes.)  

I think I should have it fully modified, to handle more than 3A. For now, I want to do C, RCR123, and 16850. 
Meanwhile I'll organise something with those C holders, and I've got no way of holding RCR123 other than magnet wires or a clamp. 

_PS: Excuse the "test" post - that happened last night with cpf being down._


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## j3bnl (Nov 15, 2007)

cat said:


> test


 
And that means what exactly?

Explanation above, sorry Cat.


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## :)> (Nov 17, 2007)

j3bnl said:


> Has any of the experts in these set-ups thought of making these as a complete ready to go kit?
> By that I mean all the required parts charger, cradle etc already wired,assembled and ready to use.
> I for one would be very interested as I dont have the time or knowledge to DIY it myself. :mecry:
> I have around 8 different chargers that I use currently to charge the various cells and a one charger does all would certainly be a big improvement. :twothumbs



+2

I would love for some kind soul to PM me with an offer to do this. I want to charge between 2 and 4 of AW's C Cells. I can't believe that Lighthound or AW does not have an offer for these; I would think that they would sell a charger with every set of batteries that they sell.


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## cat (Nov 18, 2007)

The C cells haven't been available for as long as the others, and there aren't small chargers for them like the Ultrafire/etc chargers for RCR123, 18650, etc. 
The chargers that are suitable for the AW C cells are the RC LiPo chargers, that provide enough amps because they're designed for charging RC battery packs.


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## j3bnl (Nov 19, 2007)

cat said:


> The C cells haven't been available for as long as the others, and there aren't small chargers for them like the Ultrafire/etc chargers for RCR123, 18650, etc.
> The chargers that are suitable for the AW C cells are the RC LiPo chargers, that provide enough amps because they're designed for charging RC battery packs.


 
Hi Cat but there is a charger being sold that will charge these :- 

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=160022

Another CPF member Abinok was selling adapters that fit in the Ultrafire WF-139 that enable you to charge AW C cells but he is currently sold out.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=169082

I have both the charger and the adapters and the charger is quicker but the adapters are a brilliant wee invention and work very well with the C's


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## cat (Nov 20, 2007)

I'd forgotten about that one. I just read the thread again to refresh my memory. He stopped selling it because of a supply problem. 
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2036745&postcount=72


> and I stop sales of this charger because the maker no longer support stable supply.



The abinok adaptors provide for 2 C cells to be charged at the same time with the Ultrafire W-139, but without balancing - which means that you need to periodically charge them separately, one at a time. 

So the idea of this thread was that the DN/Tenergy 4P charger or the FMA-Cellpro/HD6S, with a modified Voltcraft NiMH charger as a battery holder, would be a more affordable way to balance charge, and be an alternative to having multiple chargers and battery holders for C cells and 16850 cells, etc. 

You could have 4 WF-139 chargers with abinok holders running at the same time, for less than the cost of the DN/Tenergy 4P plus a power supply and a battery holder, but you'd still have the problem of unreliable and varying cut-off points, and the less than optimal charging rate.


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## j3bnl (Nov 20, 2007)

cat said:


> I'd forgotten about that one. I just read the thread again to refresh my memory. He stopped selling it because of a supply problem.
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2036745&postcount=72
> 
> 
> ...


 
I agree with the purpose of the thread but the chargers from LITEmania are still available, I bought one from him after the post you quoted.
The original adapters from Abinok were as you stated but his latest one allow you to charge one or two as they were individual holders with individual connections for using the WF-139.


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## cat (Dec 3, 2007)

Is the DN/Tenergy 2A enough for A123 and Emoli cells? 
(Sorry; save me the trouble of spending time back on one those threads to check the A123 and Emoli capacity.)


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## petrev (Dec 3, 2007)

cat said:


> Is the DN/Tenergy 2A enough for A123 and Emoli cells?
> (Sorry; save me the trouble of spending time back on one those threads to check the A123 and Emoli capacity.)


 
Hi Cat

DN is fine for E-Moli but should not be used to charge A123 as they are 3.3V Cells and use a different profile for charging - The FMA chargers work for A123.

Cheers Pete


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## cat (Dec 3, 2007)

Thanks, Pete. I just did a search and started reading the A123/emoli sales thread again. I see that 4A - 5A would be more like it. 

But "different profile"... ...ok, I need to find out more, what there is other than V and A, why NiMH are also different charging. 

So I'll wait - more - before I get a charger. Figure out what I do next after the 5761. In case it involves A123. I'll go and ask about that on the "What is Mag85" thread.

PS: I didn't read much of the _long_ thread on the RC forum about charging A123 - it was too tedious - but they were just talking about getting the voltage right. Maybe further on in the 20-whatever pages they got into the different profile etc.


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## petrev (Dec 3, 2007)

cat said:


> Thanks, Pete. I just did a search and started reading the A123/emoli sales thread again. I see that 4A - 5A would be more like it.
> 
> But "different profile"... ...ok, I need to find out more, what there is other than V and A, why NiMH are also different charging.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Cat

Different Profile - FMA Charge A123 at 3A (CellPro4s) or 10A (HD-6S) and the Charge Curve looks slightly different - but mostly it's just the speed it ramps up to max current and the termination voltage - A123 3.6V vs. Li/E-Moli 4.2V.
see here

NiCd/NiMh are rated at 1.2V so terminate at an appropriately lower value !

Hope this helps a bit.

Pete


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## cat (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks. I've only come back to this now after reading it in email when you posted it. 
The ramping up, I didn't know about. 
The graph curves seem similar,...or the A123 one seems to increase the V slower. 

Now I'm wondering what to do next, for a more extreme MAG... an MR16 50W, one of the 64-whatevers, maybe one of LuxLuthor's battery packs instead of dealing with modified holders...which would probably mean one of the RC pack chargers. C or D, I don't know yet so I'm ordering Kiu C and D now. Too much reading, hard to come to conclusions.


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## LuxLuthor (Dec 6, 2007)

Take your time reading and asking. 

As they say....there are many ways "to skin a cat," (so to speak!!! :devil: ), and rarely one "right" answer.


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## cat (Dec 6, 2007)

*!*


 I don't _have_ enough time! I didn't even before I found cpf. I't s the most time-consuming thing I can think of. 
Maybe one conclusion is that with either serial packs or A123, I'm going to need something other than the DN/Tenergy.


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## hoffner5 (Dec 7, 2007)

Escuse my possible ignorance on this issue...

I didn't realize that many of the parallel balancing chargers actually had a separate channel for each cell. Are they truly separate channels or some hybrid? If separate, why not simply allow for charging each cell individually? Is it due to the RC battery pack application? That is, the battery packs exist in series, but some extra contact wires allow for the parallel charging without needing to take the pack apart?

In a perfect world, do we prefer the 4-channel parallel charger or a 4-channel individual charger?


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## petrev (Dec 7, 2007)

hoffner5 said:


> Escuse my possible ignorance on this issue...
> 
> I didn't realize that many of the parallel balancing chargers actually had a separate channel for each cell. Are they truly separate channels or some hybrid? If separate, why not simply allow for charging each cell individually? Is it due to the RC battery pack application? That is, the battery packs exist in series, but some extra contact wires allow for the parallel charging without needing to take the pack apart?
> 
> In a perfect world, do we prefer the 4-channel parallel charger or a 4-channel individual charger?


 

Hi

DN/Tenergy has 4 separate chargers thus one can drop loose cells in and out of a cradle at will. The others are serial chargers with balancing wires to each cell - they are designed for pack charging and will error report if a cell is missing etc. from a cradle, so cradle has to be wired appropriately for each set of cells to be charged.

If the DN did A123 cells and could charge at 10A and a max of 6 cells there would be no competition . . . but it doesn't !

I use the DN for charging odd loose cells 1,2,3 or 4 at a time as required and the FMA-6S for rapid charging and A123 and 5/6 cells at a time.

If you don't have any A123 cells or expect to have the need to rapid charge larger capacity (C/D?) cells then the DN is very good for day to day use - Just stuff something in the Beeper and away you go.

Cheers Pete


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## cat (Dec 7, 2007)

Excellent. :thumbsup: Thanks, Pete. Now I've got one thing straightened out - it just needed to click into place ... RC battery packs don't have just two wires coming out of them. It just hadn't "clicked" properly. :duh2: Too much reading in too little time with really too little sleep. :ironic: 



> If the DN did A123 cells and could charge at 10A and a max of 6 cells there would be no competition . . . but it doesn't !
> 
> I use the DN for charging odd loose cells 1,2,3 or 4 at a time as required and the FMA-6S for rapid charging and A123 and 5/6 cells at a time.
> 
> If you don't have any A123 cells or expect to have the need to rapid charge larger capacity (C/D?) cells then the DN is very good for day to day use


That's why I _still_ haven't bought a DN/Tenergy (and when, any day from now, my reflector and 5761 bulbs arrive, I'm going to need to charge my 2 AW C's) - because I'm not sure I won't - a few weeks later - want to charge A123's, or a pack of NiMH. It's "Murphy's Law." On the other hand, I don't want to get a more expensive charger and find that all I do with it is charge a few C cells. :laughing: The last few days I've been thinking to hell with it, just get the DN/Tenergy and accept that you might need another charger a few weeks later. :laughing: Do I want to fiddle with 12 or 18 AA's falling out of a stack of dodgy holders, and charge them in batches in my little Energizer charger, or just go for a pack.

[edit:] I'm looking at the Hyperion EOS06061 and the FMA 6-S and trying to see how the outputs work - for the C cells / cradle. (Compared to the DN/Tenergy.) The Hyperions seem to have red/black banana plugs, and _sets_ of molex-type connectors for the balance leads. Why are there multiple sets of balance wire connectors? For charging multiple packs at the same time? 
The FMA 6S ... you seem to have RC gold female connectors from the batteries pushed onto the pins of a molex/D-shell connector on the charger...?


----------



## petrev (Dec 7, 2007)

Hi Cat

The Voltcraft cradles are of course designed for series NiCad/NiMh charging upto 12 cells at a time in series. 

For high current drain applications using NiMh then Welded Packs like Lux makes are the best simple option.

Cheers Pete


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## petrev (Dec 11, 2007)

cat said:


> Excellent. :thumbsup: Thanks, Pete. Now I've got one thing straightened out - it just needed to click into place ... RC battery packs don't have just two wires coming out of them. It just hadn't "clicked" properly. :duh2: Too much reading in too little time with really too little sleep. :ironic:
> 
> That's why I _still_ haven't bought a DN/Tenergy (and when, any day from now, my reflector and 5761 bulbs arrive, I'm going to need to charge my 2 AW C's) - because I'm not sure I won't - a few weeks later - want to charge A123's, or a pack of NiMH. It's "Murphy's Law." On the other hand, I don't want to get a more expensive charger and find that all I do with it is charge a few C cells. :laughing: Thee last few days I've been thinking to hell with it, just get the DN/Tenergy and accept that you might need another charger a few weeks later. :laughing: Do I want to fiddle with 12 or 18 AA's falling out of a stock of dodgy holders, and charge them in batches in my little Energizer charger, or just go for a pack.
> 
> ...


 

Hi Cat

Different chargers = different plugs and connectors but all the balance (RC-Type) chargers seem to be roughly the same 

They have main power leads that are connected to the Neg end of the stack and the Pos end of the stack and these carry the BIG Power/Current

All the other connecteors are for the inter-cell nodes (balance points) and carry only lower currents (normally) - these are often provided for each size of pack eg 2/3/4/5/6S cells but can't be used more than one pack at a time and are just for convenience as each RC type pack will have a Big power connector and a smaller multi-pin balance connector with relevent number of pins.

To connect these types of charger to the cradle(s) you just have to make up tails (MainPower+MultiPin to Jack) so that the jacks are plugged in as appropriate at the cradle end and the other end goes to the Main+multi combination.

Just spotted this The BantamTek E-Station BC-6 - PDF-Manual - at All-Battery - that will do all types of cell (NiMH/NiCD/Li-PO/Li-Ion/Li-Fe/SLA) upto 6xLi or 15xNi at a time, but is RC-Type so would have to be patched to the cradle appropriately each time as required - no big deal really. Also works off mains so no power supply needed. Need Multi-Pin Harness EAC-120 ( EAC-131 on some websites ?)and could also get optional Software and USB link for extra fun ! Need to check exactly what's supplied by each reseller !

Have fun . . . ! 
Pete


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## cat (Dec 11, 2007)

ok, That set / "box" of flat connectors (JST type) - 2, 3, 4, and 5 ...you use the one appropriate for the battery pack - and hence the range of optional leads they supply. 

I had another look at the BC-6 (which, iirc, is quite popular) at all-battery.com (another no-international one, btw. ) I wonder if that power supply is as good as it's supposed to be - although not important, because I was going to modify a good PC PSU anyway. (There's absolutely no free space in it, but yesterday I figured out what to do - get a plastic project box and run all the wires straight out of the PSU into it, so I can mount the jack sockets, etc., on it.) 



petrev said:


> ...so would have to be patched to the cradle appropriately each time as required - no big deal really. Also works off mains so no power supply needed. Need Multi-Pin Harness EAC-120 ( EAC-131 on some websites ?)



LuxLuthor's second pass used the flat connector / JST connector on the Tenergy to one fitted into the side of the Voltcraft ...I was thinking that then you wouldn't have to connect the leads to the appropriate jacks on the Voltcraft (like for 2 or 4 cells) - or was that setup only for 4 cells?


----------



## Aircraft800 (Dec 11, 2007)

cat said:


> LuxLuthor's second pass used the flat connector / JST connector on the Tenergy to one fitted into the side of the Voltcraft ...I was thinking that then you wouldn't have to connect the leads to the appropriate jacks on the Voltcraft (like for 2 or 4 cells) - or was that setup only for 4 cells?


 
On the Tenergy, you can use the Green parallel charging plug, and you will not need to connect the specific JST connector.



 



With the e-station type chargers, in my experience, you do not have to connect the appropriate jack for the number of cells you are charging, you can use the voltcraft and the 4 cell plug, and in the charger menu, select how many cells you are using. I have a RC-Power 601 BC which is a knockoff e-station. I do have to move the positive main charging lead to the last cell in the series, but I only use the 4 cell balance plug. When I start the charge, the charger asks :"How Many Cells" and I select, and everything works great.



 

 

 



I hope that helps. I wish I would have spent the extra money and bought a e-station BC6 AC/DC just to make my charging station less cluttered.


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## beetleguise (Dec 11, 2007)

nice


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## petrev (Dec 11, 2007)

Aircraft800 said:


> . . .
> . I do have to move the positive main charging lead to the last cell in the series, but I only use the 4 cell balance plug. When I start the charge, the charger asks :"How Many Cells" and I select, and everything works great.
> 
> 
> ...


 
Good info to have (nice mod and pics) - That makes the BC6 another nice easy system with the advantage of more chemistries and built in PS - neat.

Modify your chosen cradle and you have a neat rig for upto 5A charging.

Try these RC guys for International sales - seem reasonable !(and no doubt many others via Google - all around the $169 mark) 

Cheers
Pete


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## petrev (Dec 12, 2007)

Hi

Updated Post #1 with Aircraft800 Charger-Mod data and BC-6 info for easy reference.

Cheers Pete


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## cat (Dec 12, 2007)

Yes, the NiMH capability provides for charging packs like LuxLuthor's and the 5A means you can charge the AW C cells at 0.7C instead of 0.6C, a bit quicker.


[edit:] I see here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8005049&postcount=666 that there is a version G3 of DN Power LiPo / Li-ion Balance Charger doing 5A, price apparently more than the typical $150-170.


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## petrev (Dec 12, 2007)

cat said:


> Yes, the NiMH capability provides for charging packs like LuxLuthor's and the 5A means you can charge the AW C cells at 0.7C instead of 0.6C, a bit quicker.
> 
> 
> [edit:] I see here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8005049&postcount=666 that there is a version G3 of DN Power LiPo / Li-ion Balance Charger doing 5A, price apparently more than the typical $150-170.


 
Hi Cat

3.3A is 1C for the 3300mAh AW C-Lions but AW says 



AW said:


> *** The optimal charging rate of these C cells is 2.0 - 2.5A


 
Yes - Well spotted - That new G3 charger looks very interesting.

6 channels of drop-in functionality at upto 4A with USB data and a discharging facility - Now if only it did A123 and Ni chemistries too ! Does say PC can "Adjust charger settings" but don't say exactly what or how much ? Might be able to adjust to suit A123 ? Will have to wait and see !

Cheers Pete


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## Aircraft800 (Dec 12, 2007)

Can you imagine the possibilities of this charger with a few Voltcraft cradles!!

Nice Find!! Here is their website for more info: http://www.dn-power.com/


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## cat (Dec 12, 2007)

I was going by 0.7C, so the 2A / 0.6C is ok but a bit slower. 

No, no mention of NiMH with the DN Power chargers, and the software is - very likely - just going to be the amperage / charging rate, which is no big deal. (Although there is another 20-something pages there in that thread - most of it tedious.) The parallel/separate charger arrangement is nice, but at the price - like at least $180 - there are several good chargers that do NiMH as well. 

[Having just read aircraft800's post:] You've found the device that the guy selling the DN Power chargers there said was coming - he said those with the G2 version (which, I guess, is what the DN/Tenergy is) should wait a few weeks because he had a "sweet device" coming. I see it says "For G3 LIPO Charger"...mm, ok, it's going to need the 5A to handle all those packs on it. mm, not only with a bunch of Voltcraft-type cradles, you could handle a few Li packs with it too. You could charge 4 C cells and 8 17500's or whatever and pretty much get a lot of batteries charged up at the same time. Worthwhile in terms of time spent charging. 

PS: Definitely only Li. 

I've spent a lot of time deciding whether or not to get the DN/Tenergy (and a lot of learning, of course), but I need to get NiMH pack capability as well. The next thing I do is going to involve either a 18V+ NiMH pack or A123 cells.


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## roadie (Jan 9, 2009)

any updates?


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## petrev (Jan 13, 2009)

roadie said:


> any updates?


 
Hi

Not sure what updates you need ?

DN4 still working well.
FMA 6S still working well.

Need a bigger power supply to be able to charge at the full 10A from the 6S. Limited to 4A for 4S with the DN Supply, but still it shows that the little DN power supply is more than up to the designed job.

The Bantam E-Station BC6 seems to be the best (Cheapish) option for all-chemistry charging at resonable rates while the new FMA 10S looks good for big pack Lithium charging.

Cheers
Pete


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