# Threaded heatsink for Arc LS3



## greenLED (Jun 29, 2006)

I got my grubby paws on enough parts for an Arc LS3. I'd like to provide the LuxV a good thermal path and thought that a threaded heatsink would be da bomb. Heat would be transferred from the Lux onto the heatsink and directly to the body through the threads. This may eliminate the need for a retaining ring (which also serves as (-), right?), and would also serve to center the Lux. (I can dream, can't I?)

Here's a rough, not to scale, drawing (I'm not even sure of the final dimensions, other than the 0.55" OD of the converter board):





The "spikes" on the edges are the threads, the void in the middle is room for the converter board, the two thin voids near the top are holes for the connectors/wire (hopefully drilled/positioned such that it helps center the Lux), the light blue portion is the actual heatsink material.

I'll be using a BB500 board.

My questions:

What should the height of the heatsink/converter assembly be? If a lower height is needed, the final design could have a thinner top wall, or even a hole for the inductor to pop through (been wanting to do one of those assemblies for a while)  If taller, then, the top wall could be higher. A 1mm thickness emitter board yields a ~0.2" shortstack sammie.
Materials? I thought copper would be good because it's easier to solder onto it, instead of trying to thread a screw and use another wire to secure the ground to an Al heatsink.
Am I missing anything else? I'd appreciate as much feedback as possible.
Is somebody out there willing to make 2-3 of these for me?


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## mahoney (Jun 29, 2006)

Perhaps you could modify an E-screw from the Sandwich Shoppe? The threads would match. Or if you have some height to spare in your battery pack you could use an Aleph style LE. The E-can could be shortened somewhat if necessary. You would need to create the ground path through the threads of the heatsink to the threads of the head


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## mosport (Jun 29, 2006)

Nice idea migs! Wish I had a stock board to take measurements for ya... But here's some feedback instead:

I can see how you'd want to avoid the retaining ring completely, in order to tighten down your assembly into the head you'll require something to grip the board with. Perhaps 2 holes on the shoulder beside where the board sits, just like on the ARC threaded ring to engage with pointed tweezers.

The emitter shoulder resting against the reflector doesn't have enough grip to keep everything tight. If threadlock will be used to keep the assembly in place, will that affect the electrical and/or thermal path as well? 

1mm sounds about right for the top portion, copper would definately be best for heat sinking. If it's taller than stock then twisty bodies may not thread down completely past the o-ring, but kroll TSP's can compensate for any height difference.

HTH,
Derek


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## greenLED (Jun 29, 2006)

Thanks a bunch for your comments, guys!

*mahoney*, I have no experience with the e-screw; I'll have to ask Wayne if I can get a couple without getting a complete assembly... nah, it'd actually be nice to have an e-can - making sammies is easier with them. :thinking: aren't e-screws anodized? (I can fix that.) :devil:


*mosport*, I hand't thought about the holes to screw in the heatsink; I'll have to add that to the final model. I hadn't thought about the whole thing unscrewing itself either... I might need the retaining ring after all. I do have a 2x123 tailpack, but it'd be nice to use a single cell TSP (bored fat 1xAA) with a li-ion as well.

How thick are your FluPIC assemblies for the LS?


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## mosport (Jun 29, 2006)

There was a slight interference problem caused by the threaded ring on my sammie, the washer was too thick causing the retainer's little holes to dig into the R123's shoulder - not a good thing! If there's any retainer height difference above the FLuPIC's +ve contact (looking down into the battery tube), it should be kept to a minimum to prevent battery PTC strip gouging. 

The way your board sticks up past the heatsink shoulder should avoid my rubbing problem if you use the ARC ring. The stock ARC wave washer will also sit comfortably around the 0.55" board if you take a dremel and remove 1mm ID. The shoppe had limited stock of ARC retainers a few months back, haven't checked lately but those can be hard to find...

Q3/LS size FLuPIC sammie measures 3.75mm thick and the 0.55" FLuPIC version is 4.20mm (both not including emitter height).

This is a neat little project, hope you're able to find someone to make a few!


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## greenLED (Jun 29, 2006)

Thanks, mosport. I have a stock retaining ring, which I could file/sand down so it doesn't rub on the shoulder of the bats. Another option would be to solder a high enough copper nub as (+) contact on the board (which may push the batts further into the tube, thus creating another problem...).

Also, I'm not sure if the converter board should actually protrude from the heatsink as I drew it... :thinking:

I haven't seen stock Arc washers offered for some time. Not 100% sure what their role was.


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## bombelman (Jun 30, 2006)

Dudes (and ARCAHOLICS alike), check the first post of this thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=61095
It's a little different, in that the heatsink itself extends almost as high as the dome of the emitter... A Standard sandwich was used and the emitter is on an emitter-board, but the idea is the same... 

As for the height, it was also an issue with my FluPIC-in-Arc mod, but my emitter was on one of Goldserve's 0.6mm emitter boards... You could use that hieght also for your emitter-mount...
Also a tip, you can even make a 0.1mm deep "pit" to sit the emitter in dead center of the heatsink(washer). 
(The heatsink beneath the emitter is 0.2mm in height.)

If you would be making such a "washer", let me know, I might need some.
If making them is a problem, let me know, I'll se what we can work out.
Greenie, you have my e-mail address already.... 

These were my tips...  
Cheers !


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## greenLED (Jun 30, 2006)

Bombelman!!! You :rock:

That's exactly (well, sort of...that one's better) what I had in mind.

I'll be using a BB board, so the sammie would be 0.2" tall (unless the sammie holder has a hole drilled for the inductor... we could do this just for the heck of it). Even so, it'd be just ~1mm shorter (that can be a lot, depending how how you look at it).

I like the idea of mounting the Lux directly on top of the heatsink and using a "pit" to center it. I like that! :twothumbs

Nobody's offered to make some, but neither have I inquired directly. I'll keep your numbers (and e-mail) in mind. I'll try to pull the calipers out over the weekend, but before I get any further on this, there's a mod I need to finish for Master Milky.


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## bombelman (Jun 30, 2006)

Have you *tried* to only fit it with a regular arc and 2 123's ?
(Don't turn it on or use *dead* 123's)... 
Then insert some small coins into the tube aswel. 
If they fit, you're in business...

Since it's a clicky with a contact spring, it might not even matter all that much...
With some krolls I have in modded Arcs, I removed half of the spring and sanded the edges round... You win some space there...

Let me know how it turns out...
Cheers !!


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## bombelman (Jul 3, 2006)




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## greenLED (Jul 5, 2006)

bombelman said:


>


Well, I stumbled upon a previous model made by jtice. Here's the link to his pics gallery. They're _exactly _what I had in mind. Unfortunately, he couldn't find the dimensions so we're on our own about that. 

Still not sure whether the hole for the inductor is really necessary or not (the "top" of the can looks very thick from the pics). The final height might be lower.

If somebody were to make some, I'd be interested in a few. 

Some PM's sent.
My turn for some


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## tvodrd (Jul 5, 2006)

Greenster, I'm fairly ignorent of Arc LS stuff, but I have some parts cy gave me back when. The _internal_ thread of the very front/bezel piece *looks* to be 13/16"-32tpi according to my caliper/thread gage set. The length could be as short as .200" and still be able to have the board flush inside the rear and without any special provision for the inductor. That assumes a BB or MM driver from Wayne. My part says "Arc LS first run" and I don't know if it is the same as for a LS3.

Edit: Having reread the thread after a few days, an additional note. A .200" stack with Wayne's BB leaves a .030" thick web for the LS to sit on. That's about as short as practical. A clearance hole for the inductor would only buy you .0295" in length, resulting in .1705" long. 

Larry


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## cy (Jul 5, 2006)

kind of like these only shorter... 
made these for sammies, which was way too thick.


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## ouchmyfinger (Jul 6, 2006)

is this something that might be practical to use emachineshop for, once the design is worked out? 

i will admit im in pretty far above my head, but seems like it maybe a reasonable way for someone who doesn't have a lathe to get a project like this going.

i don't have nearly as many arc parts laying around as the rest of you, and don't know if this is feasable, but it would be really cool if these could fit more than just the LS3.


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## bombelman (Jul 6, 2006)

tvodrd said:


> The _internal_ thread of the very front/bezel piece *looks* to be 13/16"-32tpi according to my caliper/thread gage set.
> 
> My part says "Arc LS first run" and I don't know if it is the same as for a LS3.
> Larry



No it is not the same. The thread on the back of the head, where the battery-tube screws into the head has the correct (and same) thread pitch which is needed for later Arc LS heads (and these heatsinks)...
Could you measure those also Larry ?
(do correct me if I'm wrong)...




ouchmyfinger said:


> these could fit more than just the LS3.



Yup, I have enough other (emtpy) Arc heads waiting....
 



greenLED said:


> If somebody were to make some, I'd be interested in a few.
> Some PM's sent.
> My turn for some


Greenster, PM replied... (with a nice offer  )

btw, These *old* heatsinks we've seen so far in this thread are all made from alu, but many current lights use copper... Also, would it *really* matter if these were made from Alu or Copper ?


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## greenLED (Jul 6, 2006)

*Larry*, I was about to confess ignorance on the LS platform as well - I didn't know if the "First Run" specs were the same as later runs. In any case, thank you for pitching in and sharing those measurements! I'm guessing the thread size would be the same as those on the retaining ring, but I have no way of measuring the pitch (is that what it's called on threads?). 


*CY*, those pics are cool. Yup, that's more or less what we're thinking about, but with a closed "top" to glue the Lux on, and just enough height to accomodate a shortstacked sammie. You interested in a couple? :devil:

*ouchmyfinger*, these should work on all later-run LS heads. The LS3 head I have looks identical to my LSL (I guess that'd be an LS2 or rev 2 or whatever is called).

*Bombelman*, many thanks for the PM!! :devil: I don't have definite measurements yet, but from what I'm hearing there's interest for at least 18 so far. I can't CAD, but I can draw a rough sketch with measurements on PowerPoint if that helps anything. We'd also have to decide on whether we really want a hole for the inductor or not, and decide on materials, and then on how many.


Here's the deal: I'm having my wisdom teeth pulled out later today, so I'll probably be "out" for a couple of days  (or maybe not!!)  Who knows - just to let you know in case I fall off the face of the planet.

Also, I really need to finish a mod for Milky before jumping head first on this one.


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## bombelman (Jul 6, 2006)

Thread Pitch would need to be 13/16 20tpi.
Can this be confirmed by other Arc users ?


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## chimo (Jul 6, 2006)

bombelman said:


> Thread Pitch would need to be 13/16 20tpi.
> Can this be confirmed by other Arc users ?



I can confirm the internal thread pitch of an ArcLS.




I would be interested in one (or two) of these as well.

Paul


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## bombelman (Jul 6, 2006)

chimo said:


> I can confirm the internal thread pitch of an ArcLS.



Thanks for helping out ! We have a *small* machinist working on these. He'll do a run for us. I'll let you know if he can do some more...

Cheers !!


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## tvodrd (Jul 6, 2006)

I looked again and the other empty body is an LSH-P and is indeed 13/16-20 internal thread. (Same as the thread at the front of a SF E-series tube.) I have the tap and die, but, fortunately, am off the hook. :sweat:

Larry


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## cy (Jul 6, 2006)

me too...  



tvodrd said:


> I looked again and the other empty body is an LSH-P and is indeed 13/16-20 internal thread. (Same as the thread at the front of a SF E-series tube.) I have the tap and die, but, fortunately, am off the hook. :sweat:
> 
> Larry


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## bombelman (Jul 6, 2006)

Guys...

This item WAS sold as an "Aleph EScrew" to be used with the "EScrew CAN"...
(Sold here: http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?&products_id=451 The eScrew itself is not on the site anymore... Can someone send a mail to the Shoppe ?)

Since Arc can also use E-series parts, the thread is the same (13/16" dia, 20tpi)...
The space for the convertor is 0.59" in dia and is 2.45m deep...
Holes for the emitter leads are drill, as are "plier-holes"  .
As you read already, it's nickel plated brass...

This item would be used up-side-down compared to the way it would be used in an Aleph...

I don't know what the total height of this product is, but if someone is ordering from the shop one of these days, please include this with your order and let us know, will ya ?

Greenster, what do you think ?
Cheers !

(Thanks to Morelight for the pic)


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## tvodrd (Jul 6, 2006)

One more comment- I checked a McR 20 and it is only ~.010" too fat to drop-in the LSH-P. That would be short work with a mill smooth file!

Larry


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## bombelman (Jul 6, 2006)

tvodrd said:


> One more comment- I checked a McR 20 and it is only ~.010" too fat to drop-in the LSH-P. That would be short work with a mill smooth file!
> 
> Larry



But it's higher then the McR-18, and that height-difference is VERY critical...
I tried it once already... Maybe if we could give it the same height as the McR-18 it would work...

But then we could just get an McR-18  :laughing: .


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## greenLED (Jul 6, 2006)

Just got back from the dentist - I'm somewhere in between the anesthetics wearing off and the Vicodin kickig in.

Guess I'll make more sense tomorrow. Sorry guys.


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## cy (Jul 6, 2006)

what a killer idea!



bombelman said:


>


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## Morelite (Jul 6, 2006)

greenLED,

I just now found this thread.
I have been working out the details for machining these heatsinks with bombelman. Now I see where the interest for these stemmed from. 
Anyway, I don't have an Arc light, so any info, details, concerns, or dimensions you guys have would greatly help out. 
The only details I have at the moment is the diameter (13/16"), tread pitch (20TPI), and the bore diameter (.55"). I still need to know the bore depth, total thinkness, and position of the holes. 
The E-screw that is shown in bombelman's post is a part made for the Aleph light engines. The link posted is not right, it links to the E-screw CAN and not the threaded heat sink (e-screw). I looked for the E-screw at the SS but I don't see it anymore, I don't even see the complete light engine kit that would of had the can, e-screw and emitter board in it. I don't know if Wayne is just out of them or if there are no longer available. I have a few of the E-screws on hand that I can compare them to your requirements. 

Dwayne


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## Morelite (Jul 6, 2006)

Specs on the E-screw:

Diameter 13/16" (actual .8030")
Tread pitch 20TPI
total height .194"
bore .590"
bore depth .096"


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## bombelman (Jul 7, 2006)

We could send you an Arc-head...


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## chimo (Jul 7, 2006)

bombelman said:


> We could send you an Arc-head...



Instead of the head, would a twisty battery pack be better? It has the exact thread needed (of course, it would not provide the female part for testing).


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## bombelman (Jul 7, 2006)

chimo said:


> Instead of the head, would a twisty battery pack be better? It has the exact thread needed (of course, it would not provide the female part for testing).



The thread he already has on the eScrew...
If he had the head, he could test if the fit is nice and snug (for heatsinking) when he's making them...


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## greenLED (Jul 13, 2006)

Hi guys - sorry to have left you hanging. Teeth woes are (mostly) gone, but advisor's in town, not much time for playing. Will try to work on a rough sketch/dimensions over the weekend.

In the mean time, check this link out, that mosport sent me:
ArcLS mod by SilverLegacy (dang, that guy's good!).


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## CM (Jul 13, 2006)

I've been looking for something like this for the longest time. Too bad I don't have any more empties to play with.


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## bombelman (Jul 13, 2006)

greenLED said:


> Hi guys - sorry to have left you hanging. Teeth woes are (mostly) gone, but advisor's in town, not much time for playing. Will try to work on a rough sketch/dimensions over the weekend.
> 
> In the mean time, check this link out, that mosport sent me:
> ArcLS mod by SilverLegacy (dang, that guy's good!).



That's EXACTLY what we need...
Maybe with threads along side the whole can...

Cheers !!


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## tvodrd (Jul 13, 2006)

bombelman said:


> But it's higher then the McR-18, and that height-difference is VERY critical...
> I tried it once already... Maybe if we could give it the same height as the McR-18 it would work...
> 
> But then we could just get an McR-18  :laughing: .



That same mill-smooth file will work on the front of the McR20. If it isn't necessary to shorten it to the '18's length Never mind! 

The Arc LSH-P body I have has an aperature of 16.64mm. That's almost LC-class overhang! :green: (Not really as the O.D. is .940" vs 1.0" for the LC. I hope the McR18 works with a .200" LE!

Larry


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## ouchmyfinger (Jul 14, 2006)

Hi there - this is such a great project.

Has anyone put together final desired dimensions yet? I'm going to be soon spending some time with a friend who has a lathe, and this looks like a great project to try.

Also, if there -are- some being made, I'd love to get in line for a few.

I do have a completed Aleph Light Engine (which I guess is made up of that black 'e-screw' shown above sitting on top of the 'e-can' (will try to get a pic up later today), and can confirm that it happily screws right into an LS head. Its way too thick, of course.


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## greenLED (Jul 14, 2006)

My fault, guys - I'm trying to get some real work done (as, in what they're paying me for "job"), and haven't had time to play with this. I'll try this weekend, but it may take longer. 

Sounds like we have a machininst, enough measurements for a drawing, enough interest in a bunch (Cu, Al versions?). What else do we need?

If somebody else is willing to take the deal, please go ahead. I'd hate to delay this project for too long.


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## greenLED (Jul 17, 2006)

Just sent an e-mail to Morelite.

I can volunteer my (very special) LS3 head for obtaining further dimensions, etc. *but* does an LS3 head have the same dimensions as the LS2 heads? I don't see why they wouldn't, but...

Let's get this puppy done!


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## chimo (Jul 17, 2006)

greenLED said:


> Just sent an e-mail to Morelite.
> 
> I can volunteer my (very special) LS3 head for obtaining further dimensions, etc. *but* does an LS3 head have the same dimensions as the LS2 heads? I don't see why they wouldn't, but...
> 
> Let's get this puppy done!



Miguel, if the threads are the same all the way up, you can verify by checking battery packs between an ArcLS and the LS3. The battery pack threading is the same as the heatsink for the LSes.

The biggest hurdle is maximizing the threading while minimizing depth from the emitter surface to the bottom of the can. The assembly I made with the penny/FluPIC is about 4.2mm from emitter heatsink surface to the battery contact point. This permits a 2mm lens, an IMS17 and allows the battery tube to almost bottom out. You could probably go for up to 6mm depth is you go for a 1mm thick lens.

Paul


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## greenLED (Jul 17, 2006)

:thinking:

Sounds like we'll need that hole for the inductor after all...

A shortstacked sammie (à la tvodrd) is ~0.2" tall (~5.08mm). The emitter board thickness on those is ~1mm. If we left the hole for the inductor, total height could be ~4.08mm (~0.16"). Doesn't look like much difference, but we all know how much difference a fraction of a mm can mean to the success of a mod... and I want to be able to use a 18 (or even a 20mm) reflector. :devil:

On the other hand, we could use those e-screws are already 0.19" (4.83mm) tall... but, I have three issues with them (not having actually seen one):
1. the hole for the converter board is not deep enough 2.44mm (0.096"), and that'd make the whole assembly over 6.52mm tall
2. the diameter of the hole is much larger (0.59") than the converter OD (0.55")
3. How to attach the ground path?


OK, all that going back from metric to English just made my head spin - I hope I kept things straight in my head.


I appreciate you guys pitching in; you're light-years ahead of me in terms of modding skills and building experience, and I very much appreciate your support.


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## Morelite (Jul 17, 2006)

greenLED said:


> Just sent an e-mail to Morelite.


 
greenLED, You may want to try a PM, I never seem to get any CPF e-mail not even subscription noticifations. It worked at one time then quit.


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## bombelman (Jul 17, 2006)

If you don't mind, I'll send you guy an e-mail with the addresses...

Ciao...


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## greenLED (Jul 18, 2006)

Got your e-mail, bombelman.
I'll try another route, Morelite.
:thanks:


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## bombelman (Jul 22, 2006)

Pics from this site:
http://www.silverlegacy.info/LIGHT/ArcLS_McR20.htm


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## greenLED (Jul 22, 2006)

:thinking: I wonder what that lip on the top of the heatsink is for...

Silverlegacy's site says a McR20 was used, maybe the lip serves to hold the reflector in place? (How in the world did he fit a McR20 in there, top begin with?)

I was looking at those pics more closely... it looks like a cylinder was press-fitted inside the stock Arc locking ring.  Do you guys get that impression as well?


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## chimo (Jul 22, 2006)

Here's what I have been looking into - it may help give you some ideas. I have a friend with access to a lathe (he's a sheet metal worker and does not have a lot of lathe experience). I got him to make me a couple. 

They end product will be about 4-5mm thick. When I drilled the hole for the inductor, I did not like how much of the emitter slug was exposed, so I used a conductive epoxy to stick on a copper sheet about 0.005" thick to the top of the heatsink. This method is not suitable for production but is OK for one-ofs. 

I have not finished because I can't decide, based on what I have on hand, which emitter I want to use (CreeUV, Cree3W, UxxJ, SX0H) and which driver (NexGen or FLuPIC). I could put a U-bin and crak up the current for a Wow light, or keep the NexGen at 400mA with the S-bin and have a long-run back-up light. :thinking: :shrug: 

Note inductor hole. Copper strip is epoxied to the top of the heatsink.




With NexGen




Topside.


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## bombelman (Jul 23, 2006)

greenLED said:


> :thinking: I wonder what that lip on the top of the heatsink is for...
> Silverlegacy's site says a McR20 was used . . . .



An McR-20 in an Arc ? Is that possible ?

What *I think* the lip is for, is just for bigger heat-sink mass...
If we would (re)make such a sink (from copper) I would suggest to also 
add thread to that part of the sink. I might need to add, that the height
of the heatsink, BELOW the emitter-heatsink, must not be much more then 4mm....

Arcs are more compact then you think. EVERY 1/2mm counts !!

I'll see what more I can come up with to add to *the design*...


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## chimo (Jul 23, 2006)

bombelman said:


> If we would (re)make such a sink (from copper) I would suggest to also
> add thread to that part of the sink.


That's what I was thinking as well when I looked at the pic. It's a bit of a waste of thermal transfer opportunity.



bombelman said:


> Arcs are more compact then you think. EVERY 1/2mm counts !!


Right again!


I look forward to seeing the final product.


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## tvodrd (Jul 23, 2006)

The McR20 would be a waste in an Arc LS. I got curious and did some measuring today. The stock aperature of the Arc LSH-P case I have is .655" dia and a McR-20 is .813" O.D. with an honest 20mm/.787" dia working diameter. A bunch of light would be lost hitting the bezel window overhang.

The McR-18 is .708" dia and ends in a knife edge at the front. Work the areas of the aperature and McR-18 and ~15% gets "wasted" inside the head. (Feel free to correct me if I blew it- wouldn't be the first time!  ) Opening the aperature to 18mm/.710" or so is child's play in a lathe. 

I measured the internal length available with things at the approx turn-on point and got 2.055". Subtracting 1.30" for the CR123, .475" for the McR-18, .308" for a canwich, and .040" for a 1mm watch crystal window. It leaves -.066" to *play* with! Unscrewing the case until the twistie's O-ring almost shows gains you .043" and the neg post in the tail could be shortened enough to maybe make it work. It will indeed be tight!

A .200" thick "canwich" doesn't need to have a hole for the inductor on the MM or BB convertor boards if the front web is .030" thick.

I don't know how large a 1MM glass window will fit. Assuming it will rotate after passing it down the groove in the threads I will guess ~20.3mm. :shrug: This makes the McR-20, IMO, not a very viable option.

The thing looks doable, but lacking an appropriate window, I haven't headed for the shop.

(Edit in red.)

Larry


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## greenLED (Jul 24, 2006)

I've been trying to get a drawing up, but I'm having trouble with the math... 

I have a shortstacked samme that's ~5.1mm tall (a little shorter, actually). I used one of Larry's heatsinks, so that's 0.762mm, leaving 4.318mm for the converter board. However, if I add the dimensions posted by Wayne (here), I get 4.5875mm for the converter board height - meaning the heatsink would be 0.4925mm for the sammie I have... but that's not what I'm measuring. Can somebody confirm total converter height (measured from top of inductor to bottom of board), please?

I'll do this drawing with the measurements I'm taking, but want to make sure I don't have a goofy converter.

_Wait, that doesn't make sense. I've built a couple of these and they all are ~5.1mm tall.
_
Sorry for the English/metric mix, guys. :nana:

Larry, I have a 19.4mm AR coated B270 window from flashlightlens that fits wonderfully in the LS. I don't have it handy to measure thickness, though. :green:

Also, does anybody know the diameter of the Lux's slug? (assuming we can make a centering groove of 0.1mm (?)?

What should the separation of the wire holes be?


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## greenLED (Jul 24, 2006)

This is the latest incarnation of the heatsink (all measurements in mm):





I added the top threaded part to increase mass (and with the threads hopefully maximize heat transfer), sized it to fit shortstack sammie size (0.2" tall, 5.1mm total), and small depression to center the Lux (that's the 0.1mm box in the center).

Stuff that's missing:
- confirm distance between wire holes
- I forgot to draw the holes on the bottom to screw the heatsink in/out
- you guys mentioned 13/16" as OD - that's 20.6375mm, but I measured all my LS parts, and the OD (over the threads) measure between 20.32-20.38mm and that's why those numbers are in parenthesis in the drawing.
- decide whether we want/need a hole for the inductor. This'd save 0.76mm from total height, thus yielding a 4.34 sammie stack. An alternative would be to bore a partial depression for it, say ~0.5mm, thus preserving the top surface of the heatsink intact, and still keeping things ~0.5mm shorter. This would yield a 4.84mm tall sammie stack. No hole or depression means a 5.1mm tall stack. What say ye?

After seeing Chimos proto-pics, and judging by you guy's comments on the available space inside the ArcLS body, I am not sure the extra hassle of machining such a small cavity (or drill a hole) for the inductor will yield any practical benefits.

I'm open for comments.

In the mean time, I'm e-mail the drawing to Morelite. If anybody wants a copy, drop me an e-mail.


----------



## Morelite (Jul 24, 2006)

The converter board is 4.58mm and the emitter slug is 8.05mm (diameter at base)


----------



## Morelite (Jul 24, 2006)

13/16" or .8125" (20.64mm) is the correct size, but the actual OD (major) will be .8025 (20.38mm)


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## tvodrd (Jul 24, 2006)

I major blew it in my post above and edited it. The length stack needed to include the height of the black plastic on the LED. :green: Things would indeed be _tight!_

Your 16mm counterbore at the front should be 12.7mm/.500" dia and 6.35mm/.250" deep to center the McR-18 (and you can use the McR to center the LED in the assembly process.) Your LED centering feature is pretty small to machine and face completely flat. I like to be able to lap my sinks for max conductivity with the slug. You can also grab more heatsink mass by allowing the rear of the threaded sink telescope the 123 cell, at least 5mm/.200". Speaking of my sample, it is LSH-P 970 which I hope was only rejected for the incomplete laser engraving.

Larry


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## greenLED (Jul 24, 2006)

:twothumbs and :thanks: Morelite and Larry!

I've updated the design and measurements:




Gone:
- The depression to center the Lux.

Added:
- Taller lateral walls to match McR18 specs so it serves to center the Lux (I think this is an excellent idea, unless somebody wants to use another reflector, in which case they can always re-size the upper part of the heatsink).

_Forgot/dangit edit:_
- the lonely 8.05 is the diameter of the Lux's black case (not really needed anymore, but I forgot to erase it).
- I forgot (again) to add the holes for screwing the heatsink... 
- ...and, I forgot to add an optional portion on the bottom, as suggested by tvodrd... but the heatsink may be beefy enough as it is... I don't know. 


I'm liking this design business, despite all the things I keep forgetting to put in. 
:thanks: for the help!


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## bombelman (Jul 24, 2006)

greenLED said:


> :
> Gone:
> - The depression to center the Lux.
> Added:
> - Taller lateral walls to match McR18 specs so it serves to center the Lux (I think this is an excellent idea, unless somebody wants to use another reflector, in which case they can always re-size the upper part of the heatsink).



The dome of the emitter does not perfectly fit into an McR-18, but dangles a bit. I think the best wat to center the emitter in the reflector, is to keep the depression. You can make it 0.4mm so it will sit, even with thermal grease...
The reflector is centered at the top of the can...

My $0.02...


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## Morelite (Jul 24, 2006)

Thanks guys, while I was making one just to see how things are going to go, you guys go and change the dimensions.  

I guess this one can go in the scrap bin. :lolsign: 






BTW, these little things are a royal pain to make without a CNC. Much more time involved than I thought there would be, mostly due to there being a bore on both ends.


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## tvodrd (Jul 24, 2006)

Bombleman, a wrapped paper shim on the LED's dome will take up the slop and permit really good centering. Trying to face a centering feature near perfectly flat for best thermal transfer is just an issue for me. I usually punch a 1/16" dia relief at the very center or use the end of a gage pin with some compound to flatness for mating to the bottom of the slug. Morelight, there will be 2 diameters at both ends for a nominal design. Greenster, I hope you can find a legitimate CAD program that will accurately scale your drawings. :green:

Larry


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## greenLED (Jul 24, 2006)

Morelite said:


> Thanks guys, while I was making one just to see how things are going to go, you guys go and change the dimensions.
> 
> I guess this one can go in the scrap bin. :lolsign:


Don't toss it! 
Or somebody will find a use for it if they decide to use another reflector or something like that.

Bombelman, I think you're right. However, I've worked with Larry's reflector openings before and you can get excellent centering even with the Lux not fitting flush with the bottom opening of the reflector.

I'm sure Morelite will tell us how feasible the 0.1mm depression would be to machine, though.


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## Morelite (Jul 24, 2006)

greenLED said:


> Don't toss it!
> Or somebody will find a use for it if they decide to use another reflector or something like that.


that one was brass, just because I had some scrap pieces laying around. I wouldn't use brass for the real ones. Copper would be best for heat transfer. 



greenLED said:


> I'm sure Morelite will tell us how feasible the 0.1mm depression would be to machine, though.


 
The .1mm slug depression is no biggie to do, just an extra step. After boring the 16mm (now 12.7mm) heatsink base I put an 8mm end mill (center cutting) in the tailstock and ran it in .1mm, you can just barely see it in the pic posted above.

I don't think that the .1mm depression really helps centering, the metal on the slug base protrudes out more than .1mm and is much less in diameter than the plastic part of the slug. So, in other words, the emitter is still rather sloppy fitting in that depression.


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## tvodrd (Jul 24, 2006)

Morelight, I'm in your camp as I prefer plunging counterbores with endmills. The problrm is most endmills aren't ground to produce a _flat,_ and typically leave a raised center, even the "center-cutting" ones. For me, having them reground to produce a flat bottom is much cheaper than having them reground for a custom diameter. :shrug: I lack a clue to Arc's original tolerances and my numbers are based on the remaining parts set cy gave me over a year ago! If the heat wave doesn't subside, I may have time to do a drawing next weekend.

Larry


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## greenLED (Jul 25, 2006)

tvodrd said:


> Greenster, I hope you can find a legitimate CAD program that will accurately scale your drawings. :green:


_Translation:_ greenLED's drawings suck. 
_My excuse:_ umm... :thinking: my... dog ate my CAD
:lolsign:

 I know... I can draw to scale by hand, but I don't have a way of digitizing that. Googling for options...


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## tvodrd (Jul 25, 2006)

:nana:










Took me exactly one hour, most of it fighting settings.  (Should have been 5 minutes!)

Larry


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## ouchmyfinger (Jul 25, 2006)

Wow! Big thanks Larry. Thousands of aging Arc LSs are in your debt 

What would be the best material for this to be made of? Everyone here is talking about copper, but its very heavy - most heatsinks I've seen are made of aluminum. Is the weight/efficiency tradeoff of copper vs. aluminum worth it?


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## greenLED (Jul 25, 2006)

:wow:
I'm speechless. :bow: 
:thanks: :thanks:

Of course, that looks *exactly* like what I drew... :green:
:lolsign:

It's all in Morelite's expert hands now. 


One of the reasons I keep mentioning copper is because I couldn't figure out an elegant way to secure the ground path onto an aluminum heatsink. However, this thread just popped up and chimo's simple suggestion seems like a solution even I could implement. Of course all this is open to discussion - the more the better so we can have this project be useful to as many people as possible.


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## bombelman (Jul 25, 2006)

Larry, the height from the *bottom* of the can to the emitter heatsink is 0.65"-0.375"= 0.275" correct ? (6.985mm)

Please confirm.


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## tvodrd (Jul 25, 2006)

I managed to omit the 13/16-20tpi thread callout and the dimensions are in inches. The "web" for the LED is .025" thick, so watch the tolerance stack! The .660" dia telescopes the 123 cell and the .500" dia will center the McR-18. It doesnt use a sandwich!!!!!-just the board. The new software defaulted to 2 decimal places, which I caught, but too late to find the setting and fix. They're all .XX0" except for the .375" one. The hour included saving it as a .jpg, cropping the useless borderline/title block from the default "A-size" sheet, uploading it to my webspace, and making the post.  SolidWorks is a very powerful tool! I wish they offered a "stripped" vers!

Oh, IMO, the best material would be CDA Alloy 145, Telurium copper. It cuts almost like CDA 360 brass and I only use coolant when threading with a tap/die. McMaster carries the stuff, but it's a little pricey compared to brass. For finish, I recommend an EN "flash," followed by .0002" Cobalt Gold. :green:

Larry


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## tvodrd (Jul 25, 2006)

Bombelman,

There is no "can"- the whole thing is the "can." Of course my 1-finger typing means you didn't get a chance to see my last post.  From the bottom of the part to the bottom of the LS's slug is .400". 

If you don't beat me to it, I'll try and run one saturday morning for proof of concept. It will take me less time than It took me to draw it!  I hereby proclaim the design is yours to do with as you please!!!!!!!!! Make 'em happy, bombleman!!!!!

Larry


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## PhotonFanatic (Jul 25, 2006)

Larry,

With only .025" between the slug and the top of the converter space, do you think that will be enough mass to effectively transfer the heat from the slug to the canwich to the body?


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## greenLED (Jul 25, 2006)

tvodrd said:


> There is no "can"- the whole thing is the "can." Of course my 1-finger typing means you didn't get a chance to see my last post.  From the bottom of the part to the bottom of the LS's slug is .400".


Bombelman, the "bottom" is on the left, the larger opening is for "hugging" the battery, and the smaller one (that'd be the "can") for the actual converter.


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## bombelman (Jul 25, 2006)

tvodrd said:


> Bombelman,
> There is no "can"- the whole thing is the "can."


Sorry, I knew this, I meant heatsink... 



tvodrd said:


> From the bottom of the part to the bottom of the LS's slug is .400". Larry


The reason I asked this, is because this would be the height for a *sandwich*, if such would be used...
So you say, your *sandwich height* (From the bottom of the part to the bottom of the LS's slug) is 0.400" (10.16mm) ...
If I remember correctly, the "sandwich height" of a stock Arc LS (from the bottom of the LS's slug to the bottom of the pos. contact) is less then half...

Am I right ? :candle: :candle: 

Thanks again for your efforts !!


----------



## tvodrd (Jul 25, 2006)

PhotonFanatic said:


> Larry,
> 
> With only .025" between the slug and the top of the converter space, do you think that will be enough mass to effectively transfer the heat from the slug to the canwich to the body?



Slug area= something on the order of .225" dia. (Too lazy to actually calculate the real area) = on the order of .04 square inches. .225" dia has a circumference of .707". .707" X .025" thick yields a thermal path on the order of .018 sq in. IMO, it is adaquate. If the "web could be ~.057" thick, it would be "balanced." Putting one of Waynes boards in an Arc LS case, given the original design presents some challenges with the internal length stack!

Larry (.025" ad up real quick!)


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## greenLED (Jul 25, 2006)

bombelman said:


> So you say, your *sandwich height* (From the bottom of the part to the bottom of the LS's slug) is 0.400" (10.16mm) ...


Bombelman, from the top of the heatsink, to the bottom of the smaller cavity to its left, it's 0.2. That's *0.025"* for the heatsink, and 0.375-0.2=*0.175*" for the converter cavity. The "sandwich height" (converter + heatsink) is still 0.2".

I'm reading the drawing as follows, from left to right:
Large cavity: for hugging battery
Smaller cavity: for housing converter
Heatsink material:
Opening to center reflector


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## tvodrd (Jul 25, 2006)

Bombleman, I'm not sure I understand your question.  Peter's original design "telescoped" the LED and electronics. By that I mean the Bottom of the LED's slug was on the same plane as the top or bottom of the circuit board. (I'm not sure which!) The .660" dia "telescopes"/centers the 123 cell and the .55" dia counterbore is for Wayne's convertor board, epoxied-in with its inductor bottomed-out at .375" from the rear of the unit. I don't know if that helped, and I have blown it before! (as in screwed-up!) I'll try it this weekend.

Larry


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## greenLED (Jul 25, 2006)

greenLED said:


> That's *0.025"* for the heatsink, and 0.375-0.2=*0.175*" for the converter cavity. The "sandwich height" (converter + heatsink) is still 0.2".


I just noticed something... Morelite posted that pic of the converter height, and it's 4.58mm/0.180".

:thinking: We'd have to tweak that to add 0.005" more, making the "battery hugging" cavity ever so slightly shorter so the converter board sits flush with the "step" between the two cavities. No biggie. 


:laughing: _Larry, we're typing at the same time._


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## tvodrd (Jul 25, 2006)

Geez- 3 posts while I was pecking! 

Larry


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## tvodrd (Jul 25, 2006)

greenLED said:


> I just noticed something... Morelite posted that pic of the converter height, and it's 4.58mm/0.180".
> 
> :thinking: We'd have to tweak that to add 0.005" more, making the "battery hugging" cavity ever so slightly shorter. No biggie.



The "battery-hugging cavity" is +or- near .050" to still work. It is the stack from the front that matters. If Wayne's inductor heights have increased, the board will stick out .005" in its .550" dia pocket. Neglidgeble, in the grand scheme of things!

Headed to the well-earned shower shortly! Maybe I blew it! I can make one this weekend and we'll see!

Larry


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## greenLED (Jul 25, 2006)

:thinking:
You know, something's not right with those converter board measurements... and I don't mean Morelite's measurements are incorrect, I mean either with my measurements, or something might've changed with the converters, making them slightly taller. 

The shortstack sammie I measured yesterday is 5.08mm/0.2", and the heatsink on that is ~0.7mm/0.028", leaving 4.38mm/0.172 for total converter board height. The numbers simply don't add up from the parts/completed sammie I have and the other numbers we're using. I have a spare heatsink from Larry that I can re-measure just to make sure I'm remembering things correctly, and it's not just me being confused.

_Edit:_
I think you're right, Larry. It could be a difference in inductor height. I just noticed the inductor in Morelite's pic is fully surrounded by ferrite, the inductors in the shortstack sammies I have are open, I can see the wire around them... :thinking:

What board is that on your pic, Morelite?
The sammie I'm working with has a MM+.

I'm logging off as well - 99ºF temps in my office for the entire day...


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## bombelman (Jul 25, 2006)

tvodrd said:


> Geez- 3 posts while I was pecking!
> Larry


Stop pecking :naughty: 



tvodrd said:


> Bombleman, I'm not sure I understand your question.


 Greenster replied to that already:



greenLED said:


> Bombelman, from the top of the heatsink, to the bottom of the smaller cavity to its left, it's 0.2. That's *0.025"* for the heatsink, and 0.375-0.2=*0.175*" for the converter cavity. The "sandwich height" (converter + heatsink) is still 0.2".


0.2" = 5.08mm

I understand now... I hope it will permit an unbored 123 twisty to still screw in enough to let the O-ring pass....


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## tvodrd (Jul 25, 2006)

:thumbsup: bomble! Heading for the shower after answering a couple PM's, prolly from this thread. 

Larry


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## tvodrd (Jul 25, 2006)

And greenPunk, you need to buy a HF $15 4-inch dial caliper! 

Larry


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## Morelite (Jul 25, 2006)

greenLED said:


> What board is that on your pic, Morelite?
> The sammie I'm working with has a MM+.


 
That one is a BB Nexgen.
I just measured a Wiz2 at 4.65mm and a DB at 4.71mm


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## cy (Jul 25, 2006)

nice job larry!

stack height is the critical dimension.


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## ouchmyfinger (Jul 26, 2006)

tvodrd said:


> I managed to omit the 13/16-20tpi thread callout and the dimensions are in inches.
> 
> Larry




The one other feature I don't see on the drawing are some small holes on the battery side rim to be used with snap ring pliers or similar for installation and removal purposes.


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## jtice (Jul 26, 2006)

Whoa, this thread has really taken off, sorry, I havent kept up on it.

Punk has contacted me about this, and was originally wanting me to make him a few,
but I really dont have the time lately to be taking on projects,
and my lathe needs a serious tuning right now 

I made a few of these in the past though,
and still have a couple in my pewrsonal LS's
So I can measure the hieght if you want, but they have the boards potted in them, so I cant tell you much more.

The sinks I made were BARELY taller than the boards themselves.
There has to be a hole in the top of the sink, for the inductor to fit up in.
The top of the inductor should sit flush with the top of the sink.
The bored out cavity for the board is only JUST deep enough for the board to fit in, with the inductor flush, and there be a TINY bit of space above the boards other components, so theres no chance they short against the sink.

Every tiny bit of hieght you eliminate counts,
even making it as small as possible, still makes the tail pack stick out just slightly more than a stock LS,
but the o-ring will seat.

My biggest problem, was getting a reliable ground connection to the sink.
I would ussually make a hole in the side, in the threading.
Then poke a wire through there, and soder it on the outside,
then file it down so the threading was cleaned up,
this made it screw in tight, and press against the threading.

Heres a few shots of the ones I made.










~John


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## cy (Jul 26, 2006)

there's been a serious shortage of real ARC boards for some time. this heatsink would solve the problem.


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## ouchmyfinger (Jul 26, 2006)

Nice idea there about the hole for the inductor. I wonder if it limits the boards that can be used. 
Can't wait to see what Larry's results are with his design. 

Now all we need is a way to work a kilroy in there for that 2 stage regulated love. I can wish, right?


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## cy (Jul 26, 2006)

ARC LS w/twistie is still one of the most compact form factors available for CR123. 

here's a shot comparing height to firefly III and PD. 
ARC LS w/twistie may still be the shortest production CR123 light available.


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## jtice (Jul 26, 2006)

Yep, I have always liked the Arc with a twistie, and I am not even a twistie person.
Simple eligant small shape, theres something to be said for that.

I will compare it to the Fenix P1 tonight, 
the P1 is the smallest 123 light I have ever seen,
I know the dia is a bit smaller, but I am not sure about the length.

~John


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## bombelman (Jul 26, 2006)

Want a short light ? I'm not bragging here, 
just want to tell you how short I've made an Arc LS:

It's shorter then Neoca BL (52.2mm), KI (57.4mm) and even CR2Ion (53.3mm)...
Arc LS CR2: 49.8mm

I think the smalles LuxIII + McR-18 setup to date... 
(compared with both 123 and CR2 lights)


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## greenLED (Jul 26, 2006)

tvodrd said:


> And greenPunk, you need to buy a HF $15 4-inch dial caliper!


I have one of those...  it's even one of the digital ones! ...which means 
We had a fancy digital Mitu-whatever in the lab, but it's walked off... 



greenLED said:


> The shortstack sammie I measured yesterday is 5.08mm/0.2", and the heatsink on that is ~0.7mm/0.028", leaving 4.38mm/0.172 for total converter board height.


I re-measured a couple Larry-made heatsinks I have for shortstack sammies, and they're all ~0.3"/0.7mm. I remeasured my shortstacked sammies, and they're all ~5.1mm/0.2". The only explanation as to why these are so short would be a difference in the inductor height. Morelite's measurements of different boards seem to support this. I have a couple of MM+ boards inbound from The Shoppe that I can measure again.



jtice said:


> My biggest problem, was getting a reliable ground connection to the sink. I would ussually make a hole in the side, in the threading. Then poke a wire through there, and soder it on the outside, then file it down so the threading was cleaned up, this made it screw in tight, and press against the threading.


Ticey, thanks for your help and input as well. How did you solder the wire to the threads if your heatsinks are aluminum? Achieving a secure ground is something that bothers me a bit, as I've mentioned before.



ouchmyfinger said:


> Nice idea there about the hole for the inductor. I wonder if it limits the boards that can be used.


 I hadn't thought about different boards having different inductor sizes... Could be that if the end user would like to pursue this route, they could make the inductor hole themselves. As it stands, the heatsink thickness is 0.025"/0.635mm - almost hairline, and depending on the size of the inductor, it may significantly reduce the area for heatsinking near the Lux. I really don't see another option for shortening the assembly any further, but we'd have to weigh in on the potential negative effects on Lux lifespan.



CY said:


> there's been a serious shortage of real ARC boards for some time. this heatsink would solve the problem.


 I'm hoping that'll be the case as well. There's something about the LS platform... it's the light that really kicked my flashaholism, and it'll always have a place in my heart. I'd love to see more of them floating around again and getting to meet their youngest sister - Peter's new LS. 



jtice said:


> Yep, I have always liked the Arc with a twistie, and I am not even a twistie person. Simple eligant small shape, theres something to be said for that.


I have to agree, and I prefer clickies. 



bombelman said:


> Want a short light ? I'm not bragging here, just want to tell you how short I've made an Arc LS:


Showoff! :nana:


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## jtice (Jul 26, 2006)

Soldering to the AL sink was a big problem,
I didnt so much solder to it, as I used the solder to physically hold the wire in place.
Sorta used it as glue, 
it worked fine on the couple LSs I made, 
but I had problems with the Arc AA LuxIII mod I made.

These sinks should be made out of copper to help the heat anyway,
and I think that solders better, correct?

~John


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## bombelman (Jul 26, 2006)

jtice said:


> These sinks should be made out of copper to help the heat anyway,
> and I think that solders better, correct?
> ~John


Yes !! Alu does not hold at all to solder.... Forget sanding, flux, acid, it will not hold !! (I had spacers made for FluPICs made from Alu  )


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## ouchmyfinger (Jul 26, 2006)

bombelman said:


> Want a short light ? I'm not bragging here,
> just want to tell you how short I've made an Arc LS:
> 
> It's shorter then Neoca BL (52.2mm), KI (57.4mm) and even CR2Ion (53.3mm)...
> ...



Thats awesome Bombelman. I do wish I had managed to get in on those CR2 tails.

I think there are some versions of the CR2 Orb Raw that are in the ballpark of your LS CR2 in terms of height (depends on the tail style), and they use a Mcr-18 and LuxIII. At that size, it probably depends on the dimensions of the exact battery used, and if you measure the light when on or off. Could easily make a few milimeters difference.

But way off topic. BRING ON THE HEATSINKS!


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## tvodrd (Jul 26, 2006)

ouchmyfinger said:


> The one other feature I don't see on the drawing are some small holes on the battery side rim to be used with snap ring pliers or similar for installation and removal purposes.



Good catch- I "edited" the drawing with a "screwdriver" slot.

jtice, a hole for the inductor will only reduce the stack by .025". The neg post in the twistie measures .078" tall on mine which could be reduced to ~.050" and still work. :shrug:

Edit: I just had a thought re grounding- if one of the .050" dia holes was reduced to your _bare_ ground wire/LED connection diameter, it could be staked with a small centerpunch.

The price of copper has skyrocketed in the past few months! I saw it first when I bought a couple 6-foot lengths of #1/0 cable for the big searchlight and it had about doubled from what I paid a few months ago. Today I ordered a foot of 7/8" dia TeCu from McMaster and the actual price was near double the catalog price! Would you believe ~$4/freekin inch, including shipping! 

Larry


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## tvodrd (Jul 26, 2006)

I just brought it up again in SolidWorks and there's a new feature called "mass properties." I assigned the material to be wrought copper, and it gave me the following:

Surface area: 3.72 square inches. (This includes the internal area also and I ain't smart enough to modify it to just the external.)

Volume: .18 cubic inches

Weight: .05 pounds

Interesting.

Larry


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## LedSled (Jul 27, 2006)

Sounds like a real useful idea, greenLED. I didn't follow all the back-and-forth, but I'd definitely steer clear of aluminum if you need to solder to it. Copper is also a much better thermal conductor, and it's still easy to machine.

Just a note on soldering:
Soldering copper is easier if it's plated, usually with rhodium. Otherwise, it needs to be etched or sanded to clean off the oxide. Copper holds a *lot* of heat, so you'll need a high powered iron, and preheat and tin (solder-coat) the contact area before bringing any electronic parts into contact. After forming the connection, force a quick cooldown with dry ice or water ice. Otherwise, the stored heat will cook your electronics.

I only have the one Arc LS, but please add me to your list.


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## tvodrd (Aug 1, 2006)

I ran 3 this past weekend. One thing I noticed was my McR18's smallest diameter was ~.501" and I had to sand out the .500" dia pocket to fit. Tomorrow, I am sending one to the punk and cy. I hope they fit and fly. They have 4 holes, three of which I upsized to .070" dia for the LED's connection wires and a 3rd at .025" dia for a staked ground connection for the non common-mode drivers. I'll update the drawing after the feedback.

Larry


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## greenLED (Aug 2, 2006)

:twothumbs Larry!



I ordered a bunch of supplies from the Shoppe, and it turns out they didn't have BB500's, so my LS3 build will have to wait a little longer.  That shouldn't delay this project, though.


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## greenLED (Aug 3, 2006)

Welp, new order placed at The Shoppe, and BB500 on its way.

...camping by the mailbox, ready to give an update.


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## ouchmyfinger (Aug 3, 2006)

Wow, excellent news. Huge props to Larry for helping us mere mortals out with this project - we would not be where we are otherwise. One question - why 3 holes for the emitter connections? Is it to accomodate different types of emitters, perhaps? 

Man oh man, I can't wait until these are (hopefully) available in some quantity. I probably could use 5 or 6 myself. 

:goodjob: everyone. Can't wait to hear how greenLed and cy fare.


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## tvodrd (Aug 3, 2006)

4 holes actually, 3 X .070" and 1 X .025". My illogic is that whatever driver is used, it will need a ground/batt neg connection. An easy way to do this is with a single piece of solid 24ga wire through the .025" hole and use a center punch to stake the copper immediately adjacient to the hole. This provides a "crimped" connection and the wire can continue to the LED's neg if appropriate. For non common mode drivers like the Wiz, holes remain for the 2 insulated LED leads. The extra .070" hole is for routing convenience as things will be cramped inside the convertor pocket.

That's a pretty good sized chunk of copper and you'd need a propane torch to solder to it.

Larry


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## greenLED (Aug 3, 2006)

tvodrd said:


> The extra .070" hole is for routing convenience


...and for filling the cavity with epoxy. 



tvodrd said:


> That's a pretty good sized chunk of copper and you'd need a propane torch to solder to it.


 New toy *cough*tool*cough* added to the list!!


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## bombelman (Aug 7, 2006)

How about this for centering the Emitter:






Original by H22A: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/120417


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## greenLED (Aug 7, 2006)

Me likey! It wouldn't interfere with the reflector at all. We'd have to think about how much it'd complicate the design - it's pretty complex as it is.

No "chunk of copper" for me this weekend - hopefully today.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 7, 2006)

Miguel, clear some of your PM's. Thanks,

Bill


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## greenLED (Aug 8, 2006)

Thanks for , Bullzeyebill! Done.


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## greenLED (Aug 8, 2006)

The copper heatsink finally arrived. Let me tell ya, it's beefy chunk of metal!

Before I go any further, I'd like to thank tvodrd for his hard work and excellent design. Larry, you :rock:


I had no trouble fitting the McR18, and the whole assembly screw in beautifully into an empty LS head I had ready for it. I did some dry fitting with all the spare Arc tails I have, and in all but one case the o-ring was covered completely. The one twisty that wouldn't screw all the way in is about 1mm longer than all the others I have, and the o-ring was covered more than 85-90% - I'd say "not a problem". This "dry-fitting" was done with a 1mm window, BTW.

After seeing the finished proto, I don't think a hole for the inductor is advisable, and I wonder if Bombelman's suggestion for centering walls would be too cumbersome to execute - there's already a lot of detail involved (but I know squat about machining, it could be trivial, so I'll leave the machinists to discuss that).

For the final assembly, if anything, I'd shorten the reflector. That and the bottom of the twisty tail (assuming you're using a twisty) are the only places where you can really gain some real vertical "real estate" to make the the head and body thread a little deeper. Playing with the heatsink itself simply doesn't yield enough "return". An alternative would be to use an IMS17 (which saves around 1.3mm - a lot for LS real estate standards), but then the upper opening of the heatsink will need some reshaping - nothing critical.

I'll try to post some pics of the heatsink. I'm  to see what CY and Bombelman have to say about the design, and hopefully we can go one step further and have a batch of these produced.


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## ouchmyfinger (Aug 9, 2006)

greenLED,

How does using the reflector work for centering the emitter for epoxying purposes?


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## greenLED (Aug 9, 2006)

ouchmyfinger said:


> How does using the reflector work for centering the emitter for epoxying purposes?


I didn't have much problem, although things kept sliding around a bit because I was dry-fitting everything (holding parts in my hand, no adhesive, etc.).

I've centered a Lux using a reflector similar to this before. That time, I used the tip of a needle to nudge the Lux a bit until it was perfectly centered. I haven't yet tried Larry's suggestion of wrapping a bit of paper around the dome. Maybe a drinking straw would work too.


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## greenLED (Aug 9, 2006)

Here are the pics I promised:

Heatsink in the LS:




Heatsink, top and bottom (left, right):


 



I did a little boo-boo, and that's why the 2 wire holes are messed up - they were perfectly round and nice when I got it from tvodrd. The thread on the LS head I was using are slightly messed up :green: and the heatsink got stuck inside the head...  In an effort to free it, I put my needle-nose pliers into the wire holes, and pushed/pulled/twisted a bit too hard...


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## bombelman (Aug 9, 2006)

Looks great ! Can you also make a shot from the side, with the reflector (and a lux) on it ?

Cheers !!


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## ouchmyfinger (Aug 10, 2006)

looking good! :rock:

How does the converter you are using fit inside the can? Is there any extra space? You could try sanding down the converter side a little instead of sanding down the reflector. 

Another small question about the fit, as I sit here staring at an empty LS. In this one anyway there is a small unthreaded portion in the middle of the inside threaded section. I would guess this is where the original converter board/lux assembly is supposed to sit. Do all of the heatsink's threads get engaged with a reflector/lux installed? The threads directly next to platform that the lux sits on would the most important ones, I would think, and from the looks of my LS, there are no threads in the body at that point. Not sure if it even makes a difference, thermodynamics is not my forte. I guess you could fill up the empty space, if any, with thermal grease.


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## greenLED (Aug 10, 2006)

ouchmyfinger said:


> How does the converter you are using fit inside the can? Is there any extra space? You could try sanding down the converter side a little instead of sanding down the reflector.
> 
> ...In this one anyway there is a small unthreaded portion in the middle of the inside threaded section. I would guess this is where the original converter board/lux assembly is supposed to sit. Do all of the heatsink's threads get engaged with a reflector/lux installed?



1. The converters fit nicely - there's actually a hairline space between the edge of the board and the ID of the converter's cavity. I tried MM+, DB500, NG500, BB500. I should've fitted a sammie-size FluPIC in there, but didn't think of it.

Sanding the edges of the converter is generally not a problem, but is not necessary in this case. Sanding the converter itself is not feasible because the bottom has the (+) contact, and depending on the board an extra (-) path. Depending on the board, you can do without the (-), but getting rid of the (+) just complicates things unnecessarily.

Like a mentioned before tweaking the heatsink here in there doesn't really free the vertical space needed for the tail to thread flush with the head. You either have to bore the bottom of the twisty or hack the reflector. I'm going to do the latter.

2. There's plenty of contact between the heatsink and the threads. I guess you could add some thermal paste, but I don't think that gap is an issue.


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## LedSled (Aug 11, 2006)

Sounds encouraging greenLED! I'm cheering for you.

Just some things on my mind:

1) Your comments on the limited vertical real estate (getting the o-ring to nest properly) are alarming. Is the bulkhead between the LED and the circuit board as thin as you can make it? Copper is so thermally conductive that mechanical strength is the only obstacle to thinning it down.

2) Getting dust on the reflector's reflecting surface, from sanding it down, seems dangerous. My Celestron telescope's main mirror has a quartz overcoat, so it's durable enough to be **carefully** cleaned. I only tried to clean a flashlight reflector once and it was a disaster.

3) On your thread contact observation: copper and aluminum have different rates of thermal expansion, so I wonder if your fit is too snug. Galvanic corrosion can also cause a lockup as the assembly ages. A bit of clearance and an electrically-conductive soft-setting thermal compound might be a smart move.

4) Any ideas on using the Wizard2x2 converter? It doesn't seem to be available yet. Physically, it should fit, but I wonder about switch compatibility.


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## greenLED (Aug 11, 2006)

LedSled said:


> Is the bulkhead between the LED and the circuit board as thin as you can make it? Copper is so thermally conductive that mechanical strength is the only obstacle to thinning it down.
> 
> 2) Getting dust on the reflector's reflecting surface, from sanding it down, seems dangerous. My Celestron telescope's main mirror has a quartz overcoat, so it's durable enough to be **carefully** cleaned. I only tried to clean a flashlight reflector once and it was a disaster.
> 
> ...


1. It is certainly thin, but it's mechanically strong as well. I only messed up mine because I forced it past the bad threads in the LS head I was using and couldn't get it out using the "screwdriver slots" up top (and that's because I wasn't using the appropriate tool to begin with. Haste is what caused the damage, not lack of mechanical strength.

2. You are correct. re-sizing the reflector is a tricky business, but it can be done, and cleaning it properly is not hard if you do it properly. Sizing the reflector down is a user choice. Keeping it stock is not really a problem since the o-ring is fully covered. I, however, can get a little anal at times and would like *my* build to sit down a bit further. 

3. Yup. I'd rather have the heatsink lock in place than have it move around more than necessary and risk shearing the Lux, which is a problem the original LS boards had. Thermal paste is a good add-on.

4. dat2zip would be a better person to answer those questions. I'm not sure I understan your point about the switch compatibility.


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## LedSled (Aug 11, 2006)

greenLED said:


> 4. dat2zip would be a better person to answer those questions. I'm not sure I understan your point about the switch compatibility.


Thanks, greenLED! :goodjob: 

On the switch, the McLux III lights use the Wizard2x2. I was reading about their "piston drive" and "Kilroy," and got confused ... I still am. I'll email dat2zip and see if he might help. I sort of doubt the folks at McGizmo would welcome the inquiry.


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## greenLED (Aug 11, 2006)

I see what you meant now.

:thinking: You *might* be able to rig a kilroy look-alike to the side of the heatsink (you'd have to hack it, but I'm walking on a limb on that one, so I'll stop right here.


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## greenLED (Aug 22, 2006)

Just to ensure everyone that this project hasn't died. We're working on it "behind the scenes", so to speak.


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## bombelman (Aug 23, 2006)

greenLED said:


> Just to ensure everyone that this project hasn't died. We're working on it "behind the scenes", so to speak.


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## ouchmyfinger (Aug 25, 2006)

greenLED said:


> Just to ensure everyone that this project hasn't died. We're working on it "behind the scenes", so to speak.


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## greenLED (Sep 8, 2006)

Just passing by to make a quick count of potential quantities:

greenLED - 6
mosport - 3-5
bombelman - 24-36
tvodrd - ?
CY - ?
chimo - 1 (if copper)
ouchmyfinger - a few?
jtice - 1 (maybe)
LedSled - 1
stein - 2
cgpeanut - 2
the avatar - 1
photonfanatic >3
jdriller 2-3

Let me know!


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## chimo (Sep 8, 2006)

Miguel, you can take my name off the list. I have a couple of rough ones a friend made up that will do the trick for me. Thanks and good luck on this project - it's a worthy venture! Considering how many ArcLS mods that are out there, I'm surprised it was not done (in bulk) before.

Oh, if they are copper instead of Aluminum, you can keep me down for one.  

Paul


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## jtice (Sep 8, 2006)

Did you ever work up a price?

I dont really need any, made my own before,
but I MAY take one.

~John


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## stein (Sep 8, 2006)

If the list is still open,put me down for 2.


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## cgpeanut (Sep 8, 2006)

put me in for two aswell


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## the avatar (Sep 8, 2006)

I'm in for 1, thanks!


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## greenLED (Sep 8, 2006)

Ticey, no price set yet, and still working on some details. However, I need to get an idea of demand so we can find/negotiate with a shop. So, if anybody's interested let me know - the list is open, and the more, the merrier. 

cgpeanut, I'm glad you consider these worthy of your modding skills. :twothumbs

These will most likely be made in aluminum. They may be chemcoted. As I said, nothing final yet. The idea behind these is to make the heatsinks as "standard" as possible so people can choose among the wide variety of currently available converters, reflectors, power sources, windows, etc. and mod their LS's!


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## bombelman (Sep 9, 2006)

2-3 dozen


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## mosport (Sep 9, 2006)

I'm still in a for at least 3 (maybe 5) , depending on the pricing Migs. Hope this project will happen!


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## PhotonFanatic (Sep 9, 2006)

I would like at least three, thanks.


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## jdriller (Sep 9, 2006)

2 or 3 for me, please.


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## TIP AND RING (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks to greenLed for leading me to this thread. 
Please put me down for 2 please.


Ooooppps... just found a empty chem-kote LS body that needs one as well  .
Please put me down for 3.


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## greenLED (Nov 24, 2006)

..and since this has been bumped, bombelman is "full steam ahead" with the project. Expect to see a really nice solution shortly.


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## TIP AND RING (Jan 6, 2007)

, if any other Arc LS fanatics are interested.


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## liqht (Jan 6, 2007)

i'm thinking i will need about 6 of them, depending on price


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## Gimpy00Wang (Jan 16, 2007)

(2) for me please.

- Chris


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## TIP AND RING (Feb 14, 2007)




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## bombelman (Feb 14, 2007)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/153119


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## TIP AND RING (Feb 14, 2007)

Bombelman, are the heatsinks still to be offered as a seperate item? Or only with the chrome LS? Just making sure. Those heatsinks in the pic look great.:rock:


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## greenLED (Feb 16, 2007)

TIP AND RING said:


> Bombelman, are the heatsinks still to be offered as a seperate item?


I hope they are. My LS3 and a few other LS "skeletons" depend on that.


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## jtice (Feb 16, 2007)

Ah nice to see this project still going through.
I have sold off just about all my arc parts now 
But I have a few bodies left if anyone is interested.

I will have to grab one of these to try with a Seoul 

~John


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## TIP AND RING (Feb 17, 2007)

TIP AND RING said:


> Bombelman, are the heatsinks still to be offered as a seperate item? Or only with the chrome LS? Just making sure. Those heatsinks in the pic look great.:rock:


 
Any word? It's more than acceptable and completely understandable,dollar wise, if the new heatsink is offered only as complete units. Just wish to know as to follow my own needs.


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## TIP AND RING (Feb 18, 2007)

It's like posting in the D.S. FF3 thread :candle: Best wishes.


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## bombelman (Feb 18, 2007)

Good things come to those who wait...


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## TIP AND RING (Feb 18, 2007)

That the local machinist said as well. Again,best wishes with your projects.


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## cerbie (Apr 6, 2007)

If this is still in the works, count me in for 2 of them.


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## nakahoshi (Apr 13, 2007)

at least 2


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## Russki (Apr 15, 2007)

Can I drop in for 2?


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## Gimpy00Wang (Nov 1, 2007)

:bump:

Any progress on this?

- Chris


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## greenLED (Nov 1, 2007)

I got a proto for testing and then haven't heard anything after that. Yaesumofo is the person to ask about these.


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## rolling (Oct 20, 2008)

I recently got into the Arc LS. Are these Headsinks avaible?


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## greenLED (Oct 20, 2008)

No. Bombelman and 'mofo took the production in their hands, BUT a few things went wrong along the production process, bombelman went MIA, etc. and these are not available. 

I know a few other modders (chimo, mosport) have ordered/made their own from custom shops, so it's definitely possible.

Last person I heard working on these was darkzero. Maybe he'll find a shop to make some?
  Will? 

For a dedicated LuxV (or similar high-powered emitter), I think Larry's design is superb. It's not the easiest pill to build, but it gives great heat dissipation.

The heatsink redesigned by 'mofo and bombelman is really nice and would allow the use of different pills in a single host.


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## rolling (Oct 21, 2008)

I would at least like 3 of them. I do have one head i moded already with a SSC P4 CRI93 and McR18-S. Now I have 3 bodys but just one head. That needs to be changed


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## cgpeanut (Oct 27, 2008)

Count me in for five please.


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