# Maglite's output numbers magically double or almost triple overnight???



## fire-stick (Dec 3, 2005)

A few days ago I looked at maglite dot com to check the output ratings of my 2D maglite. I looked all over the entire sight from the maglite solitaire all the way up to the 6D and the magcharger. I noticed a slightly higher output from the mag-num star bulbs but that's what I expected. Then, a few days later, I checked the sight again to look up the output ratings for my friend's 3D maglite and I noticed the numbers being distinctly different. These numbers may not be exact but I remember some of the output ratings from the old site.

Old numbers--------------
2D-18 lumens
3D-39 lumens
6D-114 lumens
Magcharger-175 lumens
Mag solitaire-.5 lumens

New numbers-------------
2D-40 lumens
3D-82 lumens
6D-233 lumens
Magcharger-218 lumens
Mag solitaire-2.3 lumens
------------------------------
What's goin' on here??

Thanks 

scott


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## ZeissOEM2 (Dec 3, 2005)

edit


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## bwaites (Dec 3, 2005)

The numbers are bogus.

I have the new lamps. None are brighter than the stock MagCharger lamp, period.

If you overdrive the 5 cell Xenon lamp, you get close to the MagCharger, but the Magcharger is still brighter and has more output.

The 5 cell Xenon is the only only one I have been able to overdrive with one cell with any consistency, usually they just blow. They are on the edge, evidently.

Mag is pulling a fast one here, or using perfect world numbers. In addition, they are quoting LAMP lumens, not TORCH lumens, as Surefire does.

Multiply that 233 by .65 and you are closer, but I still don't think it puts out even 160 or so lumens.

Bill


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## igabo (Dec 3, 2005)

ZeissOEM2 said:


> It seems to be that there is some new lamps.



I doubt that's the case; they haven't said anything about new/revised bulbs.. would be wise of them to do that if they are new and improved.


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## Mark2 (Dec 3, 2005)

I have both charts, most lumens numbers almost doubled for both Krypton and Xenon bulbs.


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## Double_A (Dec 3, 2005)

FWIW I had this email exchange with Maglight concerning brightness and runtime. While it doesn't specifically address this thread's subject, I think you will find it interesting none the less. I went to their web site and asked a straight forward question "How long will it take a 4D cell Maglight to drop to 50% of it's initial brightness" I was so startled by their answer I replied back asking them to confirm their response. So you have their confirmation here first and then my reply asking for them to confirm. They were quite forthright about the whole thing, I've gotta give them credit for that.


To: [email protected]
CC: 
Subject: Maglite.com Website Visit - Your Feedback
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:45:53 -0800

Greg:

Our test show that the voltage decreases from 30-50% within the first 
30 minutes of on time.

---------- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----------
TO : Mag Instrument, Inc. Web Site (www.magmail.com)
FROM : [email protected]
RECEIVED: 11/18/2003 11:32:56 AM EST

Re: Maglite.com Website Visit - Your Feedback

Thank you for your quick reply concerning my query on runtime of a 
set of batteries to 50% of initial brightness.

I was surprised however by your reply that it took only 20-30 minutes 
to drop to 50% of initial brightness.

Although I did not specify, can you confirm this is correct? With 
fresh alkaline batteries?

GregR


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## Ray_of_Light (Dec 3, 2005)

It is a late market trend. 
Every manufacturer, with the notable exception of SureFire, is quoting double of the flux, at the bulb with fresh battery.
The 2D is 20 lumens at bulb, and after is on for 30 minutes the flux has decreased to 10 lumens. If you calculate all the losses, the indicated output flux is 4 times less.
SF quotes the output flux averaged over the runtime. Hope they do not feel compelled to follow this new market trend.

Anthony


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Dec 3, 2005)

MAGLite wrote: "Our test show that the voltage decreases from 30-50% within the first 30 minutes of on time."

Hello? Voltage is not brightness. They didn't answer the question. Brightness is probably down by 50% within 15 minutes.

Confused by the MAG lumens numbers game? Welcome to the world of G&P fans, where a high-pressure xenon 9V lamp is variously described as 120 lumens, 140, and 175.


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## SJACKAL (Dec 3, 2005)

Mistake mistake mistake, they are making very bad mistakes by not realising the existence of candlepowerforums.


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Dec 3, 2005)

I am sure they know about CPF.

The problem is, we are a very small fraction of the flashlight-using population.

When you show off a flashlight to one of the unenlightened, they usually respond favorably, until they discover how much you paid for it. The reponse is almost always a variation of "You paid _how_ much? But it's just a _flashlight_!"

After that, it's usually futile to explain the advantages of efficiency, regulated brightness, reflector/optic efficiency, etc. Very few people are willing to spend more than $20 for a flashlight, and Maglites are right at that price point.


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## asdalton (Dec 3, 2005)

Most buyers don't know the difference between lumens, candlepower, lux, etc. Those who do are likely to spot baloney in advertised specs. I don't see what Mag has to gain by this exaggeration, but it's also not likely that it will hurt them, either.


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## cratz2 (Dec 3, 2005)

I just think it's an example of them catering to the least common demoninator... folks that, if they notice the lumen rating at all, might compare it with something from Inova a couple racks over and since Inova lies, Mag has figured they must too. 

As much as we all like to knock Mag, I always kind of respected that I thought that they rated their lights approximately correctly... now even that's out the window.






Still, I doubt they will sell any more or any less Mags because of their changes in ratings. Folks that don't know what they are looking at don't care and folks that DO know what they are looking at, likely know the limitations of Mags anyway.


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## lightplay22 (Dec 4, 2005)

I've witnessed some folks shopping for flashlights who were strictly going by the (usually bogus) output numbers on the packages. Proof that marketing propaganda can increase sales. "Look man, this one is 100,000 candlepower! Its the one we need"


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## cratz2 (Dec 4, 2005)

True, but I also believe that more and more people are getting more internet savvy and for every new person that buys a light at Target/Walmart etc... based on a bogus lumen rating, there is probably a new person that has done research only to find out that... some folks are lying.

I would tend to think that if folks are buying lights based on the claims on the packaging, they are probably more interested in longer runtimes and the fact that the LEDs don't burn out... Just witness how many people on this forum have claimed the River Rock products were sold out at multiple Targets.


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## AtomicX (Dec 4, 2005)

I am thinking about trying the new bulb for the 6D in a 9.6 volt 3D body, guessing it's the same reflector and it can handle the heat...can someone verify this to be the case? I already have a glass lens (magcharger lens) in the 3D body, but can't help but think the bulb will ( Xenon ) get quite a bit hotter than the stock 3D mag bulb or the Xenon Radio shack Xpr103 thats in there now. Glad Maglite put the bulbs out anyway...can someone "enlighten" me on the reflector's heat limits. Thanks for any thoughts in advance....:help:


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## PaulW (Dec 5, 2005)

AtomicX said:


> . . . can someone "enlighten" me on the reflector's heat limits. . . .


My tests have found that anything past about 10 watts will cause the plastic reflector to start to bubble if the light is run continuously for 10 minutes or so. That's about an Amp for a 9.6v bulb. Although not sure, I doubt that any of the stock bulbs run that hot.

Paul


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## witake (Dec 5, 2005)

It could be that they've really replaced their crappy lamps?? If you notice the run times as well it used to be around 10 hours for the 6C cell but now they only quote 5 hours.


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## Phaserburn (Dec 5, 2005)

Actually, their lamps aren't that crappy at all. In fact, I think they are made by Welch Allyn, IIRC. The weak links in a Maglite are the alkaline batteries that cannot maintain voltage/current, and the smooth parabolic reflector, that maximizes throw at the expense of beam quality. I think that the reflector choice is actually a concession to the alkaline battery issue, and max throw makes the light appear more powerful.





witake said:


> It could be that they've really replaced their crappy lamps?? If you notice the run times as well it used to be around 10 hours for the 6C cell but now they only quote 5 hours.


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## cobb (Dec 5, 2005)

cratz2 said:


> I would tend to think that if folks are buying lights based on the claims on the packaging...



I used the ratings once on the cabelas site. I learned lumens are another way of saying this is a flood light with a dim beam, candle power is a spot light that will blind you, but trust usm lunens is brighter.


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## NikolaTesla (Dec 5, 2005)

Do people actually use Mag lights with stock bulbs? The only one I ever had that worked fairly well was my Mag Charger at 200 Lumens. We probably have 100 stock bulbs. They by the way have NOT magically doubled in output. We just use more VOLTAGE. They do get bright then. But only for 30 seconds.....


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## bwaites (Dec 5, 2005)

Actually, the only bulb made by WA appears to be the MagCharger lamp.

The remainder are constructed differently, even the new Xenon bulbs, which have very interesting looking filament holders! They actually appear to be over built for the job.

Bill


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## Phaserburn (Dec 5, 2005)

Aaah, I think you're right, Bill. But for what they are and the specs they handle, I think the standard Mag bulbs are actually pretty decent.





bwaites said:


> Actually, the only bulb made by WA appears to be the MagCharger lamp.
> 
> The remainder are constructed differently, even the new Xenon bulbs, which have very interesting looking filament holders! They actually appear to be over built for the job.
> 
> Bill


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## offroadcmpr (Dec 6, 2005)

lightplay22 said:


> I've witnessed some folks shopping for flashlights who were strictly going by the (usually bogus) output numbers on the packages. Proof that marketing propaganda can increase sales. "Look man, this one is 100,000 candlepower! Its the one we need"



Before CPF, thats what I was like.  :thumbsdowOh, lets get this headlamp, it lasts 50 hours on a set of batteries, or this one is better since it lasts 70 hours.

Needless to say, I've learned a few things since then.


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## mobile1 (Dec 6, 2005)

Marketing - I suggest that everybody else should simply just double their numbers too...
Oh and some I noticed (especially car acessories) calculate PERCEIVED brightness (xenon) - and double the number. They explain it with the white color of the beam...


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## asdalton (Dec 6, 2005)

mobile1 said:


> Oh and some I noticed (especially car acessories) calculate PERCEIVED brightness (xenon) - and double the number. They explain it with the white color of the beam...



We already have a unit for measuring "perceived brightness"--it's called lumens. Maybe they mean _perceived_ perceived brightness, which must really be something special. :laughing:


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## picard (Dec 7, 2005)

maglite is like GM by trying cheap tricks to lure in customer.


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## InfidelCastro (Dec 8, 2005)

I think the stock bulbs suck. I mod all my Maglites and other 2C or 2D lights with Dorcy Xenon bulbs. They are the best el-cheapo bulb I know of. They light up addresses from the street extremely well for the price you pay. The brightness from the street with fresh batteries is comparable to a low end Surefire. In fact it's better in some respects, because it's not so spread out so the hotspot is actually brighter. And I don't have to feed it CR123A's. Low end Mag mods are underrated and low end Surefires are overrated in my opinion.


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## WDR65 (Dec 8, 2005)

Noticed something interesting this evening while comparing my Surefire A2 and my Mag 4D with its five C cells and standard bulb. Same old mag beam except much whiter and quite a bit brighter and a little more white than the A2. The beam is fairly useful at long range, though I don't use it as often as my TL-3. I have a 6D riding around in my truck that I think I'm gonna try the 5D xenon bulb in to see how it compares to my 4D. Those lumens numbers on their site still make me laugh though.


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## InfidelCastro (Dec 8, 2005)

WDR65 said:


> Noticed something interesting this evening while comparing my Surefire A2 and my Mag 4D with its five C cells and standard bulb. Same old mag beam except much whiter and quite a bit brighter and a little more white than the A2. The beam is fairly useful at long range, though I don't use it as often as my TL-3. I have a 6D riding around in my truck that I think I'm gonna try the 5D xenon bulb in to see how it compares to my 4D. Those lumens numbers on their site still make me laugh though.




I'd be very interested to hear how the 5D Mag Xenon bulb does in your 6D Mag compared to the standard 4D Mag Krypton bulb in your 4D Mag with the 5C cells.. I didn't even know there was a 5D Mag Xenon bulb. I assume that's what you're talking about, right?

The 2D Dorcy Xenon bulb is definately brighter than the 2D Mag Xenon bulb in 2D configuration and much brighter than the 2D Krypton bulb. Why do they even make those things anymore??? I haven't tried overdriving either the 2D Krypton or Xenon though.


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## Kershaw (Dec 13, 2005)

Here is visual proof that mag is lying, Mag claims their mini-mags puts out 15 lumens and surefire claims their E1E puts out 15 lumens. You be the judge. Link to pics.


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## ViReN (Dec 13, 2005)

fire-stick said:


> A few days ago I looked at maglite dot com to check the output ratings of my 2D maglite. I looked all over the entire sight from the maglite solitaire all the way up to the 6D and the magcharger. I noticed a slightly higher output from the mag-num star bulbs but that's what I expected. Then, a few days later, I checked the sight again to look up the output ratings for my friend's 3D maglite and I noticed the numbers being distinctly different. These numbers may not be exact but I remember some of the output ratings from the old site.
> 
> Old numbers--------------
> 2D-18 lumens
> ...



may be they have just upgraded themselves with a new "Light" meter ... or have aquired a "new" integrating sphere... which reads "more" accurately 

ok..kidding apart... but LumiLED's are also doing same ... so what if the current ratings have increased 

[email protected] has "learnt" that it's "lumens" is what is a "selling" factor these Days


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## InfidelCastro (Dec 14, 2005)

I have to say, the new Xenon bulbs they have are a bit brighter than the standard Krypton ones, but there's no way the lumens has doubled even with those. The new Maglite Xenon bulbs are about as bright as the Dorcy.

The Maglite bulbs do look a little better quality, but they're one for $1.99 as opposed to 2 for $2.99 for the Dorcy's.

I have been using the Maglite Xenons for that little extra bit of durability and the whole Made in the USA thing, but the Dorcy's are in my backup lights and in the tailcaps of my Mags.


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