# Phillips 5761 in M6



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Nov 15, 2015)

I've been trying to track down some bright bulbs available for the M6 and I see that the Phillips G4 5761 bulb is quite powerful and has quite a reputation in Mag builds. But, there is also a lot of information about having to widen the reflector opening to make it fit.

The question is if a 5761 in a FM-MN bi-pin adapter will fit into the reflector in a Surefire M6?

Thanks for your help.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Nov 15, 2015)

As a note I finally found this thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?128513-How-to-get-more-throw-out-of-the-SF-M6

Seems to imply the answer is yes but hoping some old timers could give me a definite.


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## ganymede (Nov 16, 2015)

SOYCD,

Have you looked at this thread? http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?204157-SureFire-M6-rechargeable-options-%96-SHOOTOUT-(Part-1)


From DM51's post:



> The *Philips 5761*, like the MN21, is a high-current bulb, drawing 5.4 amps. It needs the FM 2C extension, as it should not be used with smaller Li-Ion cells than ‘C’ size. There are reports of some batches of 5761s being too large to fit through the KT4 reflector hole; certainly, it is a close fit. The filament sits up higher than the WA lamps, so ~1mm of shims are required on the base of the bi-pin holder. As if all that wasn’t enough, it needs several clicks to start. Unless you intend to use LiMn (Emoli) cells in a 2x18650 holder and you don’t mind extremely short run-times, it is not worth considering this bulb for the M6 (in my opinion, anyway).
> Output………….. ððððð
> Run-time……….. ðð
> Practicality……. ð
> Overall…………...


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Nov 18, 2015)

Thanks for that information. I forgot about that test thread - one of the best back in the day.

I picked up a few 5761 bulbs, they are very easy to find online. Fit was a little snug but got it in - very impressive amount of light.


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## ganymede (Nov 19, 2015)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> Thanks for that information. I forgot about that test thread - one of the best back in the day.
> 
> I picked up a few 5761 bulbs, they are very easy to find online. Fit was a little snug but got it in - very impressive amount of light.



Haha! That is THE DEFINITIVE thread on hotwire M6 setups and you posted in that thread too!

I am running WA1185 on 3x17670 on my M6s, love them!


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Nov 19, 2015)

Putting all of this together for a CPF buddy at the moment, but man this is making me want to get a M6 again. The parts are so hard to find though. I do have a KT2 head setup with a 2x18500 Leef body that I've been rocking a MN21 in. I tried the 5761 in a FM-MN bipin and it's so much brighter. 

Trying to source a FM-MN bipin for myself but they are hard to come by lately. If anyone knows of an available on please PM me.......

I definitely think the 5761 is easier to focus than the 1185 and a smaller filament so no bat wings.


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## hron61 (Nov 27, 2015)

ganymede said:


> I am running WA1185 on 3x17670 on my M6s, love them!




You bet cha, I have this same set up and its just...so purdy!! :thumbsup:


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## ganymede (Nov 27, 2015)

hron61 said:


> You bet cha, I have this same set up and its just...so purdy!! :thumbsup:



Can't go wrong with a tried and true classic.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Nov 27, 2015)

The 1185 is a great bulb. A little harder to focus than the 5761. Also much harder to find nowadays. The 5761 is readily available for $4.


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## fivemega (Nov 27, 2015)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> The question is if a 5761 in a FM-MN bi-pin adapter will fit into the reflector in a Surefire M6?



*I have tried many 5761 and all of them fit perfectly.
Reflector bore is about 9.7mm while 5761 has base size of 9.2mm.

I don't think different batches of 5761 have that much variation.*


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Nov 29, 2015)

Something is a bit wide on the batch that I just got. They fit through the reflector opening when you slide them in by themselves, but once you put them in the FM-MN bi-pin they stick in the opening. I think they sit a bit wide once inserted. I've managed to crack the pins or glass on all of the bulbs and pretty much killed them. 

As they are pretty cheap I may try an order from another store and see if I get lucky with a different batch of bulbs.


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## Greenbean (Jan 2, 2016)

You guys are making me miss my old M6 badly, 

I also ran a WA1185 in FM Bi-Pin holder with 3x17670 cells. 

Absolutely loved it and also had an IR filter for it. 
Man it would light up the night with NVGs on....

I told my then g/f I would never sell it, and now my wife (same lady) has told me multiple times.
"Told you not to sell it!"


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## hron61 (Jan 3, 2016)

[QUOTE

I also ran a WA1185 in FM Bi-Pin holder with 3x17670 cells. 

Absolutely loved it

I told my then g/f I would never sell it, and now my wife (same lady) has told me multiple times.
"Told you not to sell it!"[/QUOTE]

If i have a dime for every time i heard my gf tell me that I'd have about a buck thirty.
But, the m6 with the 1185 has remained in my stable while a lot of other lights have been passed on for others to enjoy.
Its a KEEPER. I feel your pain though. Its truly a classic setup and i will never part with mine, and its a beater, lol.

EDIT...All this m6 talking got me feeling a bit nostalgic..So I'm charging up the batts in it so i can just shine it in the yard. lol


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## Greenbean (Jan 3, 2016)

Lol...

I am trying to come by an M6 again, I just can't believe I had two bi-pin holders....
The other was in an M4... Argh!!!!

I'll slowly get around to getting some stuff together. :candle:


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## Greenbean (Jan 10, 2016)

Weeellllll I have an old beater M6 now, scored a deal on the auction site, lol...

Have a FM 2 x 18650 pack coming and also Wohoo thanks to some great friendly CPF Mall folks as in *SOYCD and AndyF* a FM Bi-Pin socket coming also.

I wanna try the Phillips 5761 in it. I know it's not WA1185 territory but until I can get another 3 x 17670 pack it's what I have. 

Tickled to hit night shift with this set up as well.


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## fivemega (Jan 10, 2016)

Greenbean said:


> Have a FM 2 x 18650 pack coming
> I wanna try the Phillips 5761 in it.


*Current draw of 5761 is too high for protected 18650 and you may need to use IMRs.
For safer operation and first attempt, I recommend to charge each IMR about 4.1 volts.*


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## Greenbean (Jan 10, 2016)

You bet, I was just reading that the bulbs draws much current and I'll go with a set of good IMR cells with your battery pack.


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## Greenbean (Jan 13, 2016)

So what is the best right now, 18650 to power x 2 the Phillips 5761 bulb?

I used to have a set of these in a 2C and they were great for my ROP buld as they are just short enough to fit both in a 2C w/out needing any extension.
You just put some foam with copper braid on it inside a cleaned out cap and there you go. 

Sanyo 2600 mah Rechargable Lithium Ion Battery, from customlites.com
http://www.customlites.com/Sanyo-2600-mah-Rechargable-Lithium-Ion-Battery-SAN2600.htm

Would these be OK for the 5761 in a 2 x 18650 carrier in an M6? Obviously with the carrier from FM you need not worry about the length.
But is there a better cell for the 5761. I am going to purchase two new cells but want to get the best I can for this set up. 
I may get four cells and make it a truck light and keep it in my tool box. Verdict isn't in yet on that though.


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## fivemega (Jan 14, 2016)

Greenbean said:


> So what is the best right now, 18650 to power x 2 the Phillips 5761 bulb?



http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?119527-6x17500-Rechargeable-M6-by-FIVEMEGA*

If you want to use protected cells, this is another option.
2xAW's protected 25530 was the best option for 5761 but unfortunately, they are discontinued.*


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## Greenbean (Jan 14, 2016)

Now that's cool, 

You still include a M6 bi pin socket $40 with purchase of tubes?


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## fivemega (Jan 14, 2016)

Greenbean said:


> You still include a M6 bi pin socket $40 with purchase of tubes?



*I will also include new M6 if you can reverse the time back to 2006*


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## Greenbean (Jan 14, 2016)

Lol...

I had to ask man.... Was getting excited there...

These still available?
52mm Extension tube $32 (AVAILABLE)
6x17670 battery holder $39 (AVAILABLE) with purchase of tube


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## Greenbean (Jan 18, 2016)

Would the 18650 IMR cells customlites.com sells be ok?
The red Panasonic cells for Sanyo. 

http://www.customlites.com/Sanyo-2600-mah-Rechargable-Lithium-Ion-Battery-SAN2600.htm

I can afford those a little better at the moment.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Jan 18, 2016)

Since you got the PhD-M6 you should probably be looking into some 16650 cells - they have them in 2500mAh capacity. You can safely run the 5761 with the PhD-M6 as your regulator so you don't Poof bulbs.


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## Greenbean (Jan 18, 2016)

10-4, 

I'll do that...

I have a set of them for my littler 2 x CR123 lights that they work with. 

But I didn't realize they would fit in place of a 17670...


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## Greenbean (Jan 20, 2016)

So now that I have a PhD-M6 coming and an extra M6 to run it in. 

Someone has confirmed that the 16650 Keeppower cells do fit and work in it correct?

Thanks gang. I am so looking forward to this one.


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## KuanR (Jan 20, 2016)

I have the same carrier and I use the exact same batteries. The M6 can't physical fit 3 18650s no matter what, if not imagine the possibilities


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## fivemega (Jan 20, 2016)

KuanR said:


> The M6 can't physical fit 3 18650s no matter what, if not imagine the possibilities


*If 3x18650 would fit, then would be Megalennium.*


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## KuanR (Jan 20, 2016)

I would have gone for a Megalennium instead of the M6 I got if I could find one!


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## Minimoog (Jan 21, 2016)

Just out of interest, why are other bulbs other than the MN20 and MN21 being used? I have an M6 (purchaced in 2006) and with the 2x18650 adaptor I think the beam and output is great with the 250 Lumen bulb - but maybe it is improved with other options? Shame I will never see for myself as all are unobtanium...


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Jan 21, 2016)

A few reasons:
- cost - the MN21 bulbs are not cheap to replace at $25-30 each.
- fun factor - it's always fun to push the envelope
- support for rechargeable cells - 2x18650 does push a MN21 pretty hard and there is better LiIon support with some of these other bulbs. 

I think most of it comes from around the time I joined CPF, and earlier, when LEDs just didn't have enough oomph to put out more than 100 lumens. Incan was still the way to go for 1,000+ lumens. Not so much now when you can get a 3-4,000 lumen thrower for around $200 with 5x the runtime of any of these incan setups. 

I won't say they are dead, as FM, myself and others are incan lovers, but they have more limited appeal in the marketplace with the sheer number of powerful LED options available.


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## Greenbean (Jan 25, 2016)

I run the M3T MN15 with my 2 x 18650 and love it. Just a great around the house light. Not gonna lie though, I sure wish someone would make an easy kit to get a McClicky into my M6 tail cap! I need two as I also have an M6 with one of the LF 3 mode XP-G2 Warm LED towers in it and I could really use a click type interface on it. 

Looking forward to the pack showing up and getting the 5761 back in an M6.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Jan 25, 2016)

AW used to make a conversion part for the M6 switch that would take either a McClicky or his SoftStart. I owned one years back and it was a great upgrade. I haven't seen one posted in years so it would be a hard search.


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## Greenbean (Jan 26, 2016)

Yeah, I may be starting another WTB thread, lol...

I don't need the softstart part just want a clicky bad in the three mode tower M6...


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## skillet (Jan 26, 2016)

Greenbean said:


> I sure wish someone would make an easy kit to get a McClicky into my M6 tail cap! I need two as I also have an M6 with one of the LF 3 mode XP-G2 Warm LED towers in it and I could really use a click type interface on it. .



Lighthound sold that kit back in the day. I have one in my M6. It is a great upgrade! No idea where to come by those now.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Jan 26, 2016)

One other option is the extended tailcap 2x26500 option from FM. That supports a Clicky but you'll need to purchase a new battery type.


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## Greenbean (Jan 26, 2016)

I looked into that one, 

Have it bookmarked, lol...


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## The_Driver (Feb 22, 2016)

26500 batteries don't make much sense these days. Nobody or at least hardly anybody produces them (=> expensive). 
If you use a PHD-M6, I would recommend using IMR (17670) batteries, which are available now (not back then). Efest has some for example. I've read posts in the past of people who used AW 17670s at 2C and above. They mentioned greatly reduced lifetimes of the cells. 

Currently the best 18650s performance-wise for medium to high-current applications (best combination of high capacity and high voltage under load) are the Samsung INR18650-30Q. They are much better than the 18650s from 5+ years ago. As far as I know they are only available without protection though. See here for a comparison between unprotected Samsung 30Qs and unprotected Sanyo UR18650FM (standard cell a few years ago). Please click on "5A" at the bottom to see the correct curves. Ignore the capacity and the obviously miscalculated Wh-measuremenmts in the table at the bottom and just look at the "area under the curve" in the graph. Thats a big improvement!


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## Greenbean (Feb 23, 2016)

That's a strong performer, 

Thanks for the link. The inter activeness of the site it pleasing also.


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## Daniel_sk (Jul 9, 2017)

Resurrecting this thread. The previous posts mention that the Philips 5761 draws 5.4A and it will not work correctly with protected 18650. Is this true even for high capacity 3500+ mAh batteries? Most of them have 10A maximum draw, so this should be totally okay? :shrug:
The 5761 is cheap and easy to get anywhere.

Edit: For example - Nitecore has a new 3500 mAh protected cell that supports 8A continous draw.


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## fivemega (Jul 9, 2017)

Daniel_sk said:


> The previous posts mention that the Philips 5761 draws 5.4A and it will not work correctly with protected 18650.



*All incandescent bulbs have higher initial spike which can be 2 or 3 times (depending on recalculated bulb life) of continuous draw which is about 15 Amps.
As of today, I haven't seen any protected 18650 to support this kind of initial spike. PCB simply shuts down the circuit to protect battery.
PCB of AW's 25530 protected cells was strong enough to work with Philips 5761 with single click but they are discontinued.
Solution is either pair of IMR 18650 or 2S/2P 18500 18650 system to share load of total spike.*


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## Daniel_sk (Jul 9, 2017)

Thank you fivemega, you replies are always very valuable. It's a shame that regular 18650 won't work. IMR without soft-start will probably have a high chance of insta-flash. Soft-start solution for M6 are rare, expensive and add a lot of complexity. Is there maybe another high output bipin bulb that is widely available and cheap? (TAD is selling 400+ lumen 20W bulbs for 3.8$, I wonder how it would compare to WA1111 or similar).


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## fivemega (Jul 17, 2017)

*If you can obtain a proper extension and spacer, pair of protected Keeppower 26650 will power up Philips 5761 with double click.*


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## mamelo (Feb 17, 2018)

fivemega said:


> *If you can obtain a proper extension and spacer, pair of protected Keeppower 26650 will power up Philips 5761 with double click.*




Off topic (no M6) but as there are not many threads about the 6V Philips 5761... I do have a FM 3x26500 tube and FM "Bi-Pin Socket For MN Lamp Assembly" running 5761 in KT2 turbo head powered by *2x* A123 ANR26650 2000mAh LiFePo4 cells (3.3V nominal), recent batches of this cell have higher capacity. Output and runtime might be less than with usual LiOn cells but bulb life should be extended. 
EDIT: However, the A123 seem to be not much worse according to http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...th-2x-Emolis&p=2296812&viewfull=1#post2296812

I use the longer FM 3x26500 tube with a custom made aluminum spacer from a local shop only because FM 2x26650 tubes were already out at that time.

I am very pleased with the beam quality, tight hotspot and nice spill, great tint. Admitted, it is not used very often - it's rather a fun light for some special moments of nostalgia...

Ah, the cells are high drain and unprotected and power up the bulb with one click flawlessly... :thumbsup:


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## vicv (Feb 18, 2018)

The only problem is finding the bulb in Canada is tough. That being said the Philips 7388 serves me very well. Usually it's the 7387 I choose. 7-800 lumens is just more than necessary in almost every situation


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## mamelo (Feb 18, 2018)

vicv said:


> The only problem is finding the bulb in Canada is tough. That being said the Philips 7388 serves me very well. Usually it's the 7387 I choose. 7-800 lumens is just more than necessary in almost every situation



What I like with the 5761 is the filament size (approx 1.6mm x 1.6mm) which I think is responsible for the symetrical tight hotspot, I wish there were a 20W equivalent available for longer runtime. I've just ordered a few, the retailer tags them as EOL but also offers a no-brand replacement which I'll also try, as well as my first 7387. Need to see if the bulbs (as well as the Philips 5761 production batch) actually fits through the KT2 hole. Btw, this retailer also ships to Canada but the shipment is not really cheap (45 EUR)).


EDIT: Could I put a resitor in series to reduce voltage and would this yield to less amps and hence longer runtime? I could then safely use 2x 26550 5000mAh LiOns (instead of my A123 LiFePos) without NTC or softstart?


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