# New Surefire UDR DOMINATOR loltastic price



## Alex1234 (Nov 11, 2014)

Apparently this new light from Surefire cost over $1200 dollars. Not sure how this is going to sell at that price. i could buy an Eagle Tac MX25l4 Turbo for around $300 and would get the same or better performance. i get that the quality might be better but gezzz thats expensive.


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## Kaban (Nov 11, 2014)

You are paying for the best warranty and customer service on the market and the peace of mind that if something ever goes wrong, they will replace or repair it without any hassles.

But one thing is for sure, that light is definitely not for everyone.


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## leon2245 (Nov 11, 2014)

Alex1234 said:


> Apparently this new light from Surefire cost over $1200 dollars. Not sure how this is going to sell at that price. i could buy an Eagle Tac MX25l4 Turbo for around $300 and would get the same or better performance. *i get that the quality might be better *but gezzz thats expensive.





You just don't value that jump in quality enough for the price, that's okay, not for you. I don't either. Personally don't find it comical, or would lol at those who splurge on it, just a different market than us.


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## mvyrmnd (Nov 12, 2014)

I want peer-reviewed double-blind testing to prove to me that there is sufficient quality improvement to warrant that sort of price. Until then for mine, you're paying for the badge.


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## Ryp (Nov 12, 2014)

I agree.


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## shrike2222 (Nov 12, 2014)

I'm interested in UDR.
I saw some photos, but I was disapointed for their battery system. I anticipated they adapt 18650 battery like P1R, but it seems to be not.

Anyway I'm waiting for review from 880arm.


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## PocketRocket (Nov 12, 2014)

*Poof*


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## twl (Nov 12, 2014)

When you sell to government agencies, it pays to keep the retail price high, because they are spending somebody else's money.
Sort of like the $700 hammer, or $500 toilet seat.


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## pjandyho (Nov 12, 2014)

I ain't rich but I wouldn't mind splurging on one if I can afford. Looking at the reflector size, it sure is going to be a great thrower.


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## mikekoz (Nov 12, 2014)

I have owned three Surefire lights during my flashoholic years! The first was a L5 , Then I bought a L1. The last one I got was a 6P at Lowes Hardware. The first two were top quality lights, and were not overpriced, in my opinion. I just got rid of them when I stopped using CR123 lights. The 6P was a solid light, but nothing to get real excited about. You can do a lot better for half the price of that one. The only one I can truly say I miss, is the L1. I judge things by the sum of their parts and I would not pay $1200.00 for ANY flashlight. First and foremost, if I did, my wife would kill me!  Second, I can get a light for under $200.00 that would last as long as this one, get a nice warranty, etc. I have had $30.00 lights last me for years, although I will admit, they do not get hard use. Just one man's opinion. Your mileage may vary!!


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## Charles L. (Nov 12, 2014)

You could argue that the >$50 lights most of us have are silly given what one can buy for under $10 at any big box store. There's a price point for all of us, isn't there?

And yet, this light makes me sad. Ever increasing prices, falling behind in technology... reminiscent of so many American industries over the past few decades. It's enough to make one think Ross Perot was right after all (with apologies for the reference to an American politician from the '90's)


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## NoNotAgain (Nov 12, 2014)

twl said:


> When you sell to government agencies, it pays to keep the retail price high, because they are spending somebody else's money.
> Sort of like the $700 hammer, or $500 toilet seat.



First off, the government doesn't purchase "retail" they purchase at GSA pricing schedules, marked down anywhere between 25-40% for off the shelf items. Items that are specialty items are now firm fixed price units.

Secondly, the megabuck toilet seat or hammer while it makes for great TV stories, doesn't really pan out when you find out what was required for the solicitation required.
I've seen the $500 hammer and at first glance appeared like what you could purchase at a big box store. It had to be made of a special alloy with a handle of ash wood with a moisture content of ___%. 

Why the contract was written the way it was, I have no idea, but the RFQ went thru many hands before being released to the street.

As for Surefires pricing structure, yep they're high, but keeping the design so that there is interchangeability isn't as easy as it seems.

Take a look at the Federal Register, find something you're interested in and pull the request for quote specs. You'll find it isn't as easy as it sounds to provide what they want with the documentation demanded to the the Eagle stamp so you can get paid.


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## twl (Nov 12, 2014)

NoNotAgain said:


> First off, the government doesn't purchase "retail" they purchase at GSA pricing schedules, marked down anywhere between 25-40% for off the shelf items. Items that are specialty items are now firm fixed price units.
> 
> Secondly, the megabuck toilet seat or hammer while it makes for great TV stories, doesn't really pan out when you find out what was required for the solicitation required.
> I've seen the $500 hammer and at first glance appeared like what you could purchase at a big box store. It had to be made of a special alloy with a handle of ash wood with a moisture content of ___%.
> ...




Of course, the GSA gets a discount. That''s why the price is marked up so much, so that they can still make bundles off the gov't after the discount. You and I both know that the contracts are decided before any RFQ actually goes out. They know exactly what they are going to buy, and from what suppliers. The RFQ is just for window dressing to make it appear like "competitive bidding", which is is NOT, and never has been.

I have spend a good part of my life dealing with stuff exactly like this.
Trijicon sights are another example.
Not to say they aren't good. Just that they are marked WAY up for a reason, and we all know what that reason is.


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## Newguy2012 (Nov 12, 2014)

Alex1234 said:


> Apparently this new light from Surefire cost over $1200 dollars. Not sure how this is going to sell at that price. i could buy an Eagle Tac MX25l4 Turbo for around $300 and would get the same or better performance. i get that the quality might be better but gezzz thats expensive.


One thing I notice about their lights is it's sealed to keep dust and water out.


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## monkeyboy (Nov 12, 2014)

The MX25L4 packs a lot into a small volume, but IMO this comes at the expense of useability. It might fit into a backpack more easily but the heatsinking is woefully inadequate, the handle is too wide for comfort, and I hate the cryptic user interface with all that hidden programability. 

The prototypes of the UDR at SHOT show were shown to be using the Luminus CST-90 which uses the SST-90 die built directly onto a copper PCB with on-board thermal protection. All those fins on the head should do a good job keeping things cool too. I bet someone like Vinh could overdrive the nuts off of this thing, although that would be a bit like tuning a Bugatti Veyron. It's already so powerful and it's so expensive that few people would want to mess with it.

I am excited about this light, but as others have mentioned, not excited enough to drop $1200.


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## Alex1234 (Nov 12, 2014)

monkeyboy said:


> The MX25L4 packs a lot into a small volume, but IMO this comes at the expense of useability. It might fit into a backpack more easily but the heatsinking is woefully inadequate, the handle is too wide for comfort, and I hate the cryptic user interface with all that hidden programability.
> 
> The prototypes of the UDR at SHOT show were shown to be using the Luminus CST-90 which uses the SST-90 die built directly onto a copper PCB with on-board thermal protection. All those fins on the head should do a good job keeping things cool too. I bet someone like Vinh could overdrive the nuts off of this thing, although that would be a bit like tuning a Bugatti Veyron. It's already so powerful and it's so expensive that few people would want to mess with it.
> 
> I am excited about this light, but as others have mentioned, not excited enough to drop $1200.



well if i were to buy the mx25l4 turbo i would get it modded from vinh and of course he would improve heatsinking ten fold


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## idleprocess (Nov 12, 2014)

twl said:


> When you sell to government agencies, it pays to keep the retail price high, because they are spending somebody else's money.
> Sort of like the $700 hammer, or $500 toilet seat.



Ah the toilet seat and the hammer.

The "$5000 toilet seat" (or whatever number is attached to it) was actually a complete lavatory for an aircraft, and the total cost to make just enough for all aircraft or twice as many was _exactly the same_ since there was only going to be one production run and most of the manufacturer's production cost was sunk into R&D/tooling.

The hammer was either as was mentioned above - something with exacting specifications that distributed a huge fixed cost _(ala R&D/tooling)_ across a small number of units - or some way to funnel money into a classified budget away from prying eyes so we can obtain things like the B-2 and whatever the NSA spends their lunch money on.


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## KITROBASKIN (Nov 12, 2014)

Having recently read about a very interesting wristwatch that cost about $250,000, the idea of an interesting flashlight for sale for $1200 seems OK to me. No doubt many of our CPF members have spent more than $1200 on flashlights, and some of the custom flashlights are right up there as well. So what is smarter? One of these babies, or a passel of middling, modded, chinese shelf queens?


CandlePowerForums App


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## LiteTheWay (Nov 12, 2014)

Each to her own of course, but the design looks pretty boring/plain to me. If it looked more 'exotic' like the UB3T Invictus (which I know some people think is ugly), I might be more interested, even at $1200.


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## ganymede (Nov 12, 2014)

Surefire overpriced? Let's see, according to Wiki IMF 2013 per capita for:

1) China = $6,959
2) USA = $53,001

USA's per capita income is 7.6 times MORE than China yet a made in USA Surefire is selling at 4 times MORE than a made in China Eagletec, I would say the Surefire is underpriced.


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## RobertMM (Nov 13, 2014)

I'd buy it in a heartbeat if I had that kind of spending power.


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## Charles L. (Nov 13, 2014)

ganymede said:


> Surefire overpriced? Let's see, according to Wiki IMF 2013 per capita for:
> 
> 1) China = $6,959
> 2) USA = $53,001
> ...



I was going to ask on what celestial body your economic theory works, but then I noticed your forum moniker


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## orbital (Nov 13, 2014)

twl said:


> When you sell to government agencies, it pays to keep the retail price high, because they are spending somebody else's money.
> Sort of like the $700 hammer, or $500 toilet seat.



+

exactly _________________^


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## ganymede (Nov 13, 2014)

Charles L. said:


> I was going to ask on what celestial body your economic theory works, but then I noticed your forum moniker



Lol! I guess out of this world question demands out of this world answer. Illogical? Absolutely! :twothumbs


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## monkeyboy (Nov 13, 2014)

Alex1234 said:


> well if i were to buy the mx25l4 turbo i would get it modded from vinh and of course he would improve heatsinking ten fold



Vinh can only improve the thermal path between emitter and body, he can't improve the emitter or increase the outer surface area of the light. This would do nothing for the external temperature of the light which is the main issue with these new Eagletacs.


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## eff (Nov 14, 2014)

Alex1234 said:


>




That light has a futuristic look to it.
A futuristic light with a futuristic price


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## SureAddicted (Nov 14, 2014)

PocketRocket said:


> There is however no need to mock those who can afford to spend more.



I agree wholeheartedly with this comment, and the rest of your post, well said.
Just because the OP cannot afford it, there is no reason to mock. I bet there are many wealthy CPF'ers among us that can afford this light that might be put off posting it because of the comments. I certainly wouldn't if i had or was planning on getting one.
OP, if you cannot afford it, it doesn't mean it's overpriced, not by a long shot.
OP, there is no way your Eagletac can ever measure up to the Surefire, or any other surefire for that matter.
To well off people, 1200 for a flashlight is not a lot of money. My mates have custom flashlights in the 700-800 range, the UDR is more of a flashlight.
This light will not be made in large numbers, so you have exclusivity on your side. 
I personally do not see this light as overpriced.
Surefire don't produce flakes, they just don't, the same can't be said about said company.

I'm assuming the OP doesn't know about the ARC series, or the hellfighter or the beast.


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## bulbmogul (Nov 14, 2014)

Where can one of these be purchased now ..? Please link one forsale here in USA


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## twl (Nov 14, 2014)

Getting off of the price subject, and on to the light itself.

It seems to have a very good throw, and good build quality. Maybe not state of the art throw, but respectable.

I actually prefer the styling of the production light better than the looks of the prototype from the show. The prototype has sort of the look of Batman's toilet plunger.
The production light has a suitable appearance that looks like it means business.

It's certainly a good quality and powerful flashlight with some specialty intent for long range use.
Undoubtedly, some people of means will want to own them.

And just in case anyone is wondering, I'm not a "Surefire hater". I actually go out of my way to buy American made lights, and have owned some SureFire products in the past, and still have one of them. And as for the China thing, I have abandoned Chinese made lights, and only buy American made lights, or recently a custom light from a Japanese maker. My lights are from Malkoff and Oveready/Torchlab and Elzetta, mostly, and I recently bought a HF-R from MBI(Japan) which I like a lot for a custom made keychain light. If I wanted a big thrower, I'd contact Saabluster at OneStopThrowShop for one of his customs, like a Deft X. Or maybe one of Vinh's custom throwers.


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## Charles L. (Nov 14, 2014)

I hope they sell out quickly. Looks like a beautiful light.

BTW, I read the original post and caption as critical (if toward anyone) of Surefire, not their customers.


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## texas cop (Nov 14, 2014)

I've paid high prices for equipment. I demand that it works every time in any weather. We had a night shooting three years ago this Christmas of the three responding officers, one had a working flashlight. Anyone who pays half price for a lower piece of quality firearm, or any piece of equipment that only fails 1% for the time isn't using it like his life depends on it. Anyone here want a cheap Chinese pacemaker?


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## cland72 (Nov 14, 2014)

mikekoz said:


> I have owned three Surefire lights during my flashoholic years!
> *The first was a 5L
> Then I bought a LX1*
> The last one I got was a 6P



say what?

5L isn't a thing.
LX1 was announced, but never produced.


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## Alex1234 (Nov 14, 2014)

i would go for throw so vinh would put in a new driver possibly and a dedomed xml2 u3 emitter and because of the size of the light even if driven quite hard heat should be no issue with xml2 



monkeyboy said:


> Vinh can only improve the thermal path between emitter and body, he can't improve the emitter or increase the outer surface area of the light. This would do nothing for the external temperature of the light which is the main issue with these new Eagletacs.


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## ven (Nov 14, 2014)

I cant afford $1200 or at least justify it for me............i presume thats the RRP so may be a few hundred $ lower...........maybe once its been out.

If i could afford/justify it,i would certainly like to own one,it certainly looks a well made beast,the kind of light that would be still going strong in 25yrs time!

If used daily and used a lot,maybe around a specific job then i could see $1200 as an investment just like a laptop or a camera would be for many($8000 on a camera body alone for press is the norm), many mechanics have $10k+ of snap on tools in a box........my point being when you look at it in other ways its not ridiculous if a requirement/investment for reliable and potentially life saving equipment,nor if you have the money anyway to spend being a flashaholic :laughing:


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## Alex1234 (Nov 14, 2014)

i was just shocked at the $1200 dollar price tag. i was expecting it to be high but not this high lol. i was thinking $500-$700


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## ven (Nov 14, 2014)

Alex1234 said:


> i was just shocked at the $1200 dollar price tag. i was expecting it to be high but not this high lol. i was thinking $500-$700



If its worth that amount i will probably never know,its not a cheap light by a long way,but if treated as a long term investment, then i dont think you would loose much money on it providing it was looked after. If a limited amount are made,i am sure the demand will be there for a while,maybe collectables in years to come.........

Look at it another way,look at how much we spend on lights,we think nothing of buying 5 or 10 $300 lights............ just that potentially 4 purchases are tied up in one hit!


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## GrimReminder (Nov 14, 2014)

At the end of the day, with or without awesome customer service, this flashlight should be no more than $800.00 out the door in my honest opinion. Regardless if it's rechargeable or not, regardless of how many functions it has or doesn't have, the price there asking is insane. I love all my Surefire lights and love them more then the countless others I own. This is one of the few companies out there that could slash there prices by 30% and increase there profit margins by more than 30% because now the people out the who could never afford to purchase a Top of the Line Surefire can afford to, not to mention all of us major flasholics would buy more and chain stores like Walmart for example would be more inclined to stock a brand like Surefire instead of lights like Coleman, Bushnell for example. Being made in the USA does most of the time mean that you're gonna pay more, but in the end Surefire is charging way to much these days. 

Here's another perspective, if you told somebody that you have $1500.00 to spend and you were torn between buying a kickass Alienware laptop or a Dominator flash light, most people out there would say your crazy to spend that much money on a flashlight, get the laptop.

I have a question for you guys, Surefire list the msrp prices on there website. Being that i have never purchased from there website, is that the price they will charge you or does the price drop to the prices that Battery Junction would charge for example.


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## mikekoz (Nov 14, 2014)

cland72 said:


> say what?
> 
> 5L isn't a thing.
> LX1 was announced, but never produced.




It was a L5 and a L1. I just do not fully remember the model numbers as it was a few years ago. I just Googled both of those numbers and they look like what I had.


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## tab665 (Nov 14, 2014)

GrimReminder said:


> Here's another perspective, if you told somebody that you have $1500.00 to spend and you were torn between buying a kickass Alienware laptop or a Dominator flash light, most people out there would say your crazy to spend that much money on a flashlight, get the laptop.


if I had 1,500 bucks to spend theres no way I pass up on the dominator and buy a laptop. not really into computers. is the light over priced? maybe. but its been in development for at least 4 years. my biggest gripe with it is that the rechargeable battery doesn't seem to have much juice given its size (2200 mah, 7.4v) Seems to be a couple lower capacity 18650's in theres when it could probably fit 32650's or at the very least 26650's.


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## Kaban (Nov 14, 2014)

I don't even care about the price being ridiculously. Why would you even need a light like this for to be honest besides the cool factor?

How many of you guys here are search and rescue people?


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## GrimReminder (Nov 14, 2014)

I have a cabin in the deep woods of northern michigan. This flashlight would work wonders when im up there, not to mention we do a ton of snowmobiling, side x sides, four wheelers and dirtbiking on the awesome trails up there. Right now my best thrower is a fenix TK61 with a TK75Xtender for a whopping total of 8 18650's. Granted having the xtender doesnt increase the lumens past 1000 but my runtime is insane compared to anything else on the market. On turbo mode which is 1000 lumens im getting just under 9 hours of runtime on 8 18650's. We also do a lot of shining for deer, coyotes, blackbear and raccoons on our 300 acres of forest blisssssss. So in the end the dominator would fit me needs perfectly. But when im home it would make one hell of a flashlight for walking my dogs at night lmao.

Even though i dont agree with the price, i will most likely get one. Granted there are other lights on the market that will perform the same and or better for a third of the price. Thats ok with me, i just wish that Surefire would wake up and smell the coffe and work on there pricing.


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## Kaban (Nov 14, 2014)

GrimReminder said:


> I have a cabin in the deep woods of northern michigan. This flashlight would work wonders when im up there, not to mention we do a ton of snowmobiling, side x sides, four wheelers and dirtbiking on the awesome trails up there. Right now my best thrower is a fenix TK61 with a TK75Xtender for a whopping total of 8 18650's. Granted having the xtender doesnt increase the lumens past 1000 but my runtime is insane compared to anything else on the market. On turbo mode which is 1000 lumens im getting just under 9 hours of runtime on 8 18650's. We also do a lot of shining for deer, coyotes, blackbear and raccoons on our 300 acres of forest blisssssss. So in the end the dominator would fit me needs perfectly. But when im home it would make one hell of a flashlight for walking my dogs at night lmao.
> 
> Even though i dont agree with the price, i will most likely get one. Granted there are other lights on the market that will perform the same and or better for a third of the price. Thats ok with me, *i just wish that Surefire would wake up and smell the coffe and work on there pricing.*



Why would they if guys like you and me keep supporting their products? I'll be honest, I loved all Surefires I've had.


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## GrimReminder (Nov 14, 2014)

This true, if we keep buying they wont change a thing. One thing is pretty much guaranteed, prices will most likely keep going up and not down. I hate double edge swords lol.


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## monkeyboy (Nov 15, 2014)

Alex1234 said:


> i would go for throw so vinh would put in a new driver possibly and a dedomed xml2 u3 emitter and because of the size of the light even if driven quite hard heat should be no issue with xml2



Then you might as well get the TK61vn V3.5. There's no point reinventing the wheel. The SST/CBT 90 lights are for those who want higher output as well as throw.


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## Str8stroke (Nov 15, 2014)

I wonder if their new HID has a greenish tint too? lulz 


Seriously, I would own this one when I gets below a G. Not because I don't think it is worth it. Just a personal budget. Plenty of valid & non valid arguments in the thread. But most are personal opinions. We are all entitled to our own. Mine is, I like it, I love it, I wan't some more of it. 

I have blown more money on dumber things


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## NoNotAgain (Nov 15, 2014)

Kaban said:


> I don't even care about the price being ridiculously. Why would you even need a light like this for to be honest besides the cool factor?



Can't the same thing be said for just about any flashlight costing more than $50?

For the most part, flashaholics don't "need" the lights we purchase, we "want" them. 

Unless you're purchasing a limited production light for a piece of art, the big box stores lights fill most general uses. 

This forum wouldn't exist.


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## Federal LG (Nov 15, 2014)

mvyrmnd said:


> I want peer-reviewed double-blind testing to prove to me that there is sufficient quality improvement to warrant that sort of price. Until then for mine, you're paying for the badge.



Agreed.

I know people will say that SF lights are for a specific market, or that the life warranty is awesome, etc. I know that! I have several SF lights and I love them. I truly believe they are the best illumination tools ever.

But that price is still ridiculous. :thumbsdow


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## Federal LG (Nov 15, 2014)

Charles L. said:


> ... I read the original post and caption as critical (if toward anyone) of Surefire, not their customers.



Agreed. 

Criticism over the prices are always for Surefire (factory), but sometimes I have the impression that some CPFers do not understand that. It seems that they take that criticism as personal.

I gotta say... I am a happy SF customer. I have 8 Surefire flashlights and I intend to keep buying them. They have a high level of quality and their customer service kicks ***, even for me (I live overseas). But, like I said, IMHO everything has a limit. And that price... is far beyond that.

But hey... nothing against someone that will spend that amount in a flashlight. Be happy my friend!


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## ForrestChump (Nov 15, 2014)

You guys have the internet? 

This will be on Amazon Prime right around $1,000. Free 2 day shipping, I'd wager in about 2 months or less. 

My best guess? $1095 Shipped ( Give or take $50 ). Im calling it now. Anyone want to take me up on that please PM me. 

Winner gets a 2 pack of Surefire Cr123's with a funny card from Target. ( Just to be clear, when you loose, I do expect that card. Batteries have to be NIB, looser pays shipping ).


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## KITROBASKIN (Nov 15, 2014)

Federal LG said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I know people will say that SF lights are for a specific market...
> But that price is still ridiculous. :thumbsdow



Well, here in The United States, businesses have the right to set prices for what the market will bear. SureFire is a successful longstanding company that obviously knows what it is doing (see story at FlashlightGuide.com). They are not making their profit by paying their workers third world wages. (I love some of the chinese lights)

And to say that SureFire should be able to compete cost wise with someone who: may or may not have a business license; may or may not pay taxes on their flashlight work; and may or may not follow postal regulations shipping lithium batteries. Well, That is laugh out loud. Even though I have gotten some impressive product that was 'homegrown', it was a sometimes slipshod, somewhat scatterbrained process, ending up with a factory second product without a dollar discount on one of those impressive lights.

Hopefully the other thread about this light will turn out to be an earnest discussion and this thread can continue to be a repository for pontification and 'shooting from the hip'


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## Taz80 (Nov 15, 2014)

I fully understand that it's more expensive to manufacture in the states and providing a lifetime warranty increases the cost. I'd be willing to bet that only a small percentage of Surefire lights ever get sent in for repair. A large number of lights get lost, modified or stuck in a drawer when something better comes out. So I can see paying more for a made in the USA product with a lifetime warranty, and I do, just like I shop at local stores rather than the big box stores. But that price is really excessive. And if you are betting your life on only one flashlight shame on you, anything can and will break no matter how expensive. No matter how good the warranty is, it doesn't do you any good when the light malfunctions in the field.


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## Federal LG (Nov 15, 2014)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Well, here in The United States, businesses have the right to set prices for what the market will bear. SureFire is a successful longstanding company that obviously knows what it is doing (see story at FlashlightGuide.com). They are not making their profit by paying their workers third world wages. (I love some of the chinese lights)
> 
> And to say that SureFire should be able to compete cost wise with someone who: may or may not have a business license; may or may not pay taxes on their flashlight work; and may or may not follow postal regulations shipping lithium batteries. Well, That is laugh out loud. Even though I have gotten some impressive product that was 'homegrown', it was a sometimes slipshod, somewhat scatterbrained process, ending up with a factory second product without a dollar discount on one of those impressive lights.
> 
> Hopefully the other thread about this light will turn out to be an earnest discussion and this thread can continue to be a repository for pontification and 'shooting from the hip'



Yes , I understand . You are trying to justify why the price is so high . Most CPFers do that when someone criticizes SF high prices in some models . This is not the first time I read all these here in our forums . 
But even considering all these arguments, I still think this price is too high . And look, I did not compared this flashlight with any other, from another brand. I truly believe SF is the best illumination tool available.

I just found it too expensive based on my point of view. IMHO, this flashlight should cost anything around 700 ~ 800 dollars. I cannot see any reasons that can justify this price increase beyond 800 bucks.

Anyway, If you are willing to get one, go ahead. Be happy. I´m certain it is another awesome SF light!


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## KITROBASKIN (Nov 15, 2014)

Federal LG said:


> I still think this price is too high .



From what I have read, this light has been in-the-works for some time. It is doubtful any of us know how much Research and Development cost has been accrued on this light. 

The NiteCore TM36 that was on sale from illumn.com meets my needs already.

Rolls Royce had a banner year and is looking for another. The leather on their seats come from high altitude cattle that have never been near barbed wire or mosquitos...


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## Alex1234 (Nov 15, 2014)

monkeyboy said:


> Then you might as well get the TK61vn V3.5. There's no point reinventing the wheel. The SST/CBT 90 lights are for those who want higher output as well as throw.



I already have one on order lol. Although idk how much longer i want to wait till he gets the drivers in. Every week the eta gets pushed back


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## FlashKat (Nov 15, 2014)

If your life depends on it, then you should have a back up regardless. There is always a chance something will fail. Can you guarantee not one piece of the of the Surefire is NOT made in China. Please list the flashlights that did not work in your emergency especially if it was Chinese made.


texas cop said:


> I've paid high prices for equipment. I demand that it works every time in any weather. We had a night shooting three years ago this Christmas of the three responding officers, one had a working flashlight. Anyone who pays half price for a lower piece of quality firearm, or any piece of equipment that only fails 1% for the time isn't using it like his life depends on it. Anyone here want a cheap Chinese pacemaker?


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## AA#5 (Nov 16, 2014)

twl said:


> When you sell to government agencies, it pays to keep the retail price high, because they are spending somebody else's money.
> Sort of like the $700 hammer, or $500 toilet seat.



Bingo!


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## idleprocess (Nov 16, 2014)

Federal LG said:


> Yes , I understand . You are trying to justify why the price is so high . Most CPFers do that when someone criticizes SF high prices in some models . This is not the first time I read all these here in our forums .
> But even considering all these arguments, I still think this price is too high . And look, I did not compared this flashlight with any other, from another brand. I truly believe SF is the best illumination tool available.
> 
> I just found it too expensive based on my point of view. IMHO, this flashlight should cost anything around 700 ~ 800 dollars. I cannot see any reasons that can justify this price increase beyond 800 bucks.
> ...


SF may have done this for a number of reasons. Perhaps they think the market for this thing is small and that they have a brief window of opportunity to capitalize on their investment in the project, thus the high price. They might also want to just skim the top of the market where they'll get a lot of *sizzle* exposure so they can sell *steak* to larger volume segments (this is similar to how automakers sponsor race teams - _win Sunday, sell Monday_).

You have indicated that you will be voting with your wallet; I will be doing the same since SF will not sell such a thing at my price range, which is well below yours.


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## LumensMaximus (Nov 16, 2014)

I think some are losing focus, it's not just a flashlight, you won't edc or throw in the glovebox (although some here might). It's a tool i.e. search and rescue, ems, military etc.. If I am affiliated with any of those groups, I'd purchase one in a heartbeat, it will be guaranteed for life. Besides you could probably write if off on you income tax....


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## texas cop (Nov 16, 2014)

FlashKat said:


> If your life depends on it, then you should have a back up regardless. There is always a chance something will fail. Can you guarantee not one piece of the of the Surefire is NOT made in China. Please list the flashlights that did not work in your emergency especially if it was Chinese made.



It was not my Code. Guessing from the fact that Streamlight SL and Strion are the issued lights it was probably them with old Nickel Cadmium batteries well past their prime. Yes, a chance that any equipment can fail. I pick equipment with the lowest % of failure I can find. Current duty light has a single cell cr123a back up as my duty weapon also has a back up. My point is there is a big difference between 99% and 100%, and I'll pay it.


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## tab665 (Nov 17, 2014)

LEDburn said:


> You sir, are a genius. A racist one at that.


that's a bit of an over exaggeration.
im having a hard time understanding why there is so much attention on the price of this light when the ball park suggested retail price that has been floating around for a couple years has turned out to be pretty much accurate.


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## tatasal (Nov 17, 2014)

In my case, other than my 1x14500 EDC light, all my other lights are bought mainly for their looks/UI alone, and are just kept unused. I haven't got to the point of taking advantage of long warranties, etc., so it does not matter to me much. 

This Surefire looks good to me. Is this light already available for sale?


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 17, 2014)

One factious, baiting post removed.

Bill


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## eff (Nov 17, 2014)

tatasal said:


> In my case, other than my 1x14500 EDC light, all my other lights are bought mainly for their looks/UI alone, and are just kept unused. I haven't got to the point of taking advantage of long warranties, etc., so it does not matter to me much.
> 
> This Surefire looks good to me. Is this light already available for sale?


Yes it's available on ebay, lapolicegear, opticsplanet, etc ...
But the best deal I found for the UDR was at SWFA Outdoors and at tacticalgeardiscounts for 959$ (that's 30% less that the advertised price!)


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## bulbmogul (Nov 17, 2014)

eff said:


> Yes it's available on ebay, lapolicegear, opticsplanet, etc ...
> But the best deal I found for the UDR was at SWFA Outdoors and at tacticalgeardiscounts for 959$ (that's 30% less that the advertised price!)


 I do not see it ANYWHERE yet in stock and ready to ship. ?


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## ForrestChump (Nov 20, 2014)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007S0KQ22/?tag=cpf0b6-20


Stay sceptical. Call first.


EDIT: Price was removed.


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## Zivman (Dec 2, 2014)

eff said:


> Yes it's available on ebay, lapolicegear, opticsplanet, etc ...
> But the best deal I found for the UDR was at SWFA Outdoors and at tacticalgeardiscounts for 959$ (that's 30% less that the advertised price!)




I REALLY want this light.... I am a big time surefire fan. I have a few Olights, including an SR90 that I paid 400 or better for. I think that is the only thing keeping me from buying the SF. having two big hog lights that you pull out for fun is at least one more than a person really needs... But I still want one.... the last light I bought was a the m6LT last year, so I guess I have been saving up?

AT under a grand 1000 it doesn't seem 'that' bad. As been posted, I have spent more money on dumber things


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## cuester (Dec 3, 2014)

Does anyone know if it can run off 12volt and not just charge off 12 volt? Our ground sar team is looking for a portable searchlight/spotlight for our Argo vehicles. This would nicely fit the bill.


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## chipwillis (Dec 5, 2014)

anyone have one yet and is it worth the cash?


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## CelticCross74 (Dec 5, 2014)

from what I have seen my Eagletac MX25L2 kills this surefire for 1/4 the price


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## derfyled (Dec 7, 2014)

Newguy2012 said:


> One thing I notice about their lights is it's sealed to keep dust and water out.



:thinking:

Like about 98,7% of the lights on the market ?


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## ptolemy (Dec 7, 2014)

Surefires are fine lights. Dealer cost is 60% off msrp, so probably around $500. But, they can't discount it due to MAP (price fixing). Is it worth $1200? we all know it's not but we also know it will sell well, to their corporate clients, who will also buy 100x more cr123's batteries (this one uses 12 of them). 

Are there better solutions out there for below $300? of course.. brighter, or with more throw or with better battery options. Many say lifetime warranty. It's true their no questions asked warranty rocks. I have used it. But, lets say you buy new $300 light every 3-4 years... well you can buy new light for the next 12 years with latest led technology... 

I know it's nice to talk about USA made... if product is quality, who cares where its made. Overcharging for patriotism is not patriotic to me. I have owned at least a 100 of surefire lights, so I have been patriotic enough to me


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## ForrestChump (Dec 8, 2014)

I want 2.

http://flashlightguide.com/2014/11/review-surefire-udr-dominator/


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## Mark2 (Dec 8, 2014)

The UDR Dominator is in line with Surefire pricing. You get a powerful, large, well-made light + accessories. It puts out pretty much the same amount of light as a Fenix TK75, but in a more focused beam. It can keep up with a Fenix TK61 when it comes to throw but can't match the SR95S-UT. Makes you wonder what 3 or 7 CBT-90 emitters could do. The beam pattern is not 100 percent flawless and the buttons are too hard to press to be usable for momentary and they are on the small side for use with tactical gloves. Overall it's a very nice light that feels a little bit like an UB3T on steroids. An additional lower output emitter with flood light optics for close-up work and a low-output red light source would make this a real winner. But it's fine as it is, I like it.


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## chipwillis (Dec 8, 2014)

I like this light, went to Buy for the $950 price and their all sold out..... That stinks


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## warmurf (Dec 9, 2014)

Anyone hazard to guess how many of these they make? As we're all aware the numbers made have a major factor on cost. Make 10,000 and you can reduce a light by 75%, make a 1,000- not so easy to absorb the cost...


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## mikekoz (Dec 10, 2014)

Price aside, this thing uses 12 CR123's?????? I will guess that there is no option for using rechargeables. I have not owned a Surefire in a few years, but the models I had to choose from when I got mine could not run on rechargeables. That was one of the reasons I sold them.


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## NoNotAgain (Dec 10, 2014)

mikekoz said:


> Price aside, this thing uses 12 CR123's?????? I will guess that there is no option for using rechargeables.



The review dome by 880 shows the light comes with a lithium battery pack as well as a holder for 12 CR 123 cells. 

People complained that Nitecore didn't have the ability to use primary cells unless you purchased another TM series light to use the battery pack housing from. 

I guess you can never win???


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## Capolini (Dec 12, 2014)

I could NOT find this info. on their website so I called them.

TWO QUESTIONS: 

1. What is the replacement cost of a L.Ion battery pack?

ANSWER: They do not have one and he does not know! He will get back to me. I would be surprised if it was under $300. Then again if your willing to spend ~$1200 for the light it is no big deal.

2. What kind of standards do you use to measure your lights?

ANSWER: He did not know and he will get back to me!


I do not have one light where I depend on the manufacturer for battery pack. I much prefer my batteries and charging them. 

At least you can use the cr123 for back up.

The light has some impressive output. The warranty sounds great but who will be using the same light 5, 10 years from now? 5 year warranty is good enough for me.

The way I look at it is I have several lights smaller and 75% Cheaper that will out throw it and a few even have more lumens!

GOOD Beam shots/gifs on post #33 in link below:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...hotos-discussion-and-review-in-progress/page2


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## HIDSGT (Dec 14, 2014)

LMAO.... no offense but for the price of that light I could buy 6 NEW lights if it happens to fail which is pretty unlikely to begin with. a woping 2400 lumens! woo-hoo



Kaban said:


> You are paying for the best warranty and customer service on the market and the peace of mind that if something ever goes wrong, they will replace or repair it without any hassles.
> 
> But one thing is for sure, that light is definitely not for everyone.


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## martinaee (Jan 17, 2015)

I too can't knock people if they are willing to pay that much... but is the supposed superior quality really worth an extra say 600-800 dollars? I'm gonna say no.

What emitter is it using? I couldn't find it.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 3, 2015)

What's the best price anyone has seen on this so far?


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## Search (Sep 3, 2015)

945 is the best I've seen. And I see it right now.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 4, 2015)

959 is the best i have found so far - I am waiting until someone offers it in the 850 range.


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## tab665 (Sep 4, 2015)

can someone PM me where theyre seeing these prices?


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 7, 2015)

Just found the $853.00 magic number i have been looking for. Was really hoping someone would answer my questions about the battery pack.


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## tab665 (Sep 9, 2015)

I don't see a question about the battery pack, although in the other thread 88oarm did his review he covers the battery pack pretty good there. can you PM me where you found that price at?


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 9, 2015)

I have been asking a few questions as they relate to the battery pack and how easily it would be to disassemble to do an inspection for cell replacement. No brave souls have volunteered as of yet - would have been nice to know before my purchase.


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## CelticCross74 (Sep 9, 2015)

ah the UDR again. Made of foreign and domestic parts. Which parts are from where are kept a mystery by SF. The price is insane. If youre a SF collector and have the money more power to you. SF thrives off of fat government contracts more than they do sales to ordinary citizens. Just watched a couple reviews of this.."thing". The emitter appears to be a SBT 70 okay thats cool. Just visited the SF site and went over the UDR best I could. Could find no IPX rating for this abomination. Noticed how much greater the run times are on 12 CR123's (of course theres a box of 25 SF CR123's for sale on the UDR's page). 220,000 candela is nothing to sneeze at. In the video reviews I watched the beam looks good, not great but good. 9 levels of out put okay that is pretty cool. The 3 button on/temp/max before the mode dial are just a bad design and appear to have very little tactile feel. Using the UDR in the dark with gloves on would suck. Purposely designed to run at its true maximum output and run times off of CR123's only is just plain insulting to a flashaholic. For the government agency that can afford to feed the light SF CR123's all night long it doesnt matter. Not being able to use say 6 18650's is unacceptable to this flashaholic. Why doesnt SF develop their own 18650's? Because they make 4 times as much if not more selling the gvt crates of their CR123's.

For such an expensive light the beam sucks. Spill beam tint is not solid and even. Nice hot spot with nicely diffuse corona. But that is where I will stop giving this thing any praise. SF's desire to sell as many SF CR123's as they can to gvt agencies holds SF waaaaaay back in this industry. For a search and rescue light I would kick the UDR out of my way as I went for my SR52 UT loaded with the latest high mah 18650's. Upon the UDR's release in 2014 there really wasnt much competition for it now not even a full year later the competition is eating the UDR alive when it comes to high out put throwers. Despite having half the out put the M3X-UT is a better search and rescue light. The M3X UT beam in roughly just as wide and it throws further. The throwbeam out of the Javelot even at half the UDR's out put seems to have the more concentrated throw beam and hot spot, has better tint for truer color rendition and the Javelots spill is bright enough that the highly concentrated throw beam does not give you tunnel vision.

"But its made in the USA!" So are Malkoffs. Gene sources his parts 100% US made. Despite the patriotic design of SF's site it appears the lights are assembled in the US from a mix of domestic and Chinese parts in a US made host. I actually like the cheap SF lights in the sub 500 lumen range but the reality is that those lights are mostly Chinese parts and once again designed to be fed SF CR123's. The big Maglights have more US made parts in them than SF do. 

SF needs to get their heads out of the clouds because this industry has expanded exponentially since 2000. Lord forbid Fenix or Olight builds a factory in the Carolinas close to Cree and their US manufacturing plants allowing them to literally hand pick American made Cree emitters, source their aluminum from a local Alcoa or other US aluminum manufacturer etc. The upcharge for US made Fenix/Olight etc. made from 100% US sourced parts-20%.

I estimate well over one million Surefires are in service across all US military and LEO branches and that thousands of Surefires fail monthly and are returned for repair or replaced outright. I actually like the SF 320 lumen G2X, 6PX. Still over priced and run off CR123's but they are not priced into the stratosphere. They look almost just like Streamlight Pro Tacs though just with a better switch. Whats that? Non AR coated poly lens instead of thick optical quality glass with double sided AR, mystery Chinese emitter and parts for 90 bucks? At least the Streamlight admit their Pro Tacs are made in China quite poorly I might add. Bought a 500 lumen SL Pro Tac off the wall at a local battery shop for 100 bucks. Looked great in the packaging looked almost exactly like the 6PX. Same poly lens, mystery emitter.

Its almost 2016 Surefire. There are probably more non Chinese made parts in new Olights and Fenix than there are in most of the SF line. I actually feel sorry for the federal agent/soldier/sailor/marine etc that gets stuck getting issued a UDR. When a 40 dollar Ryobi HID light from Home Depot puts out more lumens and throws much further than the UDR, has a rechargeable battery and is more water resistant than a $1000+ UDR SF's true colors shine through. At least Streamlight is honest about their ratings and where the parts are sourced most SL products are sanely priced to. One can only hope Gene Malkoff is biding his time working with consultants, designers and engineers to build his own factory producing a whole new line on top of what he already build in quantities get display case space at REI etc. SF and SL would be in BIG trouble.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 9, 2015)

The Olight is too tighly focused for my taste without enough spill on the lower settings, I much prefer the rotary interface with the push button switches. I am not a big fan-boy of Sure Fire, or a big fan of spending money on something just for the heck of it. But when you spend 300-400 dollars on a Chinese Duhikie model 21Ti and 3 years down the road you need a spare part for it and you get the big fat middle finger from the manufacturer and the retail place that sold it to me, well lets just say it really ticks me off. I am not mentioning any names here but the place I bought from is in Smyrna and I was quite surprised when I got that kind of response from one of his people that was helping me (She actually hung up on me!) And then Jet Beam themselves wont even respond to my inquiry - they say - talk to the guy that sold it to you, WTF? So while I tend to agree with a little of what you said, I am done with high dollar BS made in China with no good factory support in the US.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 9, 2015)

*Not being able to use say 6 18650's is unacceptable to this flashaholic. Why doesnt SF develop their own 18650's? Because they make 4 times as much if not more selling the gvt crates of their CR123's.
*
This is the main reason i have questions about the internal factory battery pack - I am hesitant to purchase this light only to be stuck with the low run-times of the factory pack, and furthermore - there is no way i am going to be buying a super expensive factory replacement when the one supplied wont last more than 2-3 years with heavy use. I would like to know if the factory pack can be disassembled easily and have the internals replaced with higher capacity cells. If i could confirm that it COULD be disassembled and the cells easily replaced - it would be easier to convince myself to spend an absurd amount of money on this light. ($850 is still absurd IMO)


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## tab665 (Sep 9, 2015)

i think the best route would be to try to fit 6 x IMR 16650's in the CR123 battery carrier. i beleive 880 arm said the CR123 pack would need some slight modification for this arrangement and since the light was a loaner he didnt want to tamper with it. the voltage would still be lower than if using the CR123's, but the capacity would be almost tripled of what the standard rechargable pack would be. i should note that this is all based on my assumption that the CR123 pack is wired in a 4S 3P configuration.


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## sledhead (Sep 9, 2015)

GMUGNIER said:


> *Not being able to use say 6 18650's is unacceptable to this flashaholic. Why doesnt SF develop their own 18650's? Because they make 4 times as much if not more selling the gvt crates of their CR123's.
> *
> This is the main reason i have questions about the internal factory battery pack - I am hesitant to purchase this light only to be stuck with the low run-times of the factory pack, and furthermore - there is no way i am going to be buying a super expensive factory replacement when the one supplied wont last more than 2-3 years with heavy use. I would like to know if the factory pack can be disassembled easily and have the internals replaced with higher capacity cells. If i could confirm that it COULD be disassembled and the cells easily replaced - it would be easier to convince myself to spend an absurd amount of money on this light. ($850 is still absurd IMO)



No way to get my e-rings out without prying ,so, I'll be leaving my battery pack alone. To be honest, sounds like your not a candidate for this light. Looks like you're doing your best to talk yourself out of it!  

I'm keeping mine.....one of the best lights I've had.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 9, 2015)

TAB665 - Thanks for the information and thanks for posting your 2c worth - that is exactly what i am referring to. I haven't found anyone yet that is either - Number 1. willing to dissemble the factory pack to see if i can put aftermarket cells in, or Number 2. Able to confirm how the CR123 pack is wired - Sure Fire wont give me the info. And although i feel that it is ridiculous to have to spend this kind of money to get the support i want from a factory, i am willing to do so as i use a large light every day for work - (I had been using a RRT3) I really would prefer if i could figure out the battery situation prior to purchase.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 9, 2015)

sledhead said:


> No way to get my e-rings out without prying ,so, I'll be leaving my battery pack alone. To be honest, sounds like your not a candidate for this light. Looks like you're doing your best to talk yourself out of it!
> 
> I'm keeping mine.....one of the best lights I've had.



Sled - you are absolutely correct i am trying to talk myself out of it - But i don't know of any other option at this point, as the parts availability and factory support for the Chinese brands are non-existent. I guess they figure if you need parts after a few years you should just buy a new light - I guess worse things could happen to a fellow, other than having a legitimate excuse to buy a new light, but dam at these prices that's a big pop, at least for me it is.


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## CelticCross74 (Sep 10, 2015)

going back to the SF site notice all the details are not there? On one page they proudly say made in the USA and then go even further saying in order to be considered made in the USA ALL the parts have to be US sourced then when you go to any of the product pages they all say the same thing "made in USA from USA made parts AND non US made parts" WTF? I almost bought the 1000 lumen 6PX 3xCR123 light then stopped for a second...they want THAT much for a light that has less features another mystery emitter etc. I already have over a dozen lights that smoke it for close to half the price. My light collection began in 1996 and I now have dozens upon dozens of mostly Chinese lights. Only ONE has failed in any way and it was a beat to death PD35 that lost its lower 3 modes. Emailed Fenix, they emailed me back an address in New York strangely enough to send it to for repair. Got the light back in less than two weeks and it works like new now at zero cost to me. Been in contact with Olight in China asking tech questions and always got a satisfactory return email from them in no more than a few hours.

The industry has made almighty leaps forward since 2000. The only Chinese maker Ive had problems with is Nitecore. Bought the SRT7 when it first came out a couple years ago. EDCd the hell out of it eventually the cheap "tactical ring" snapped in half. Been trying to get a replacement for a long long time. My emails to Nitecore either go totally unanswered or I get back links that just go straight to their website.

Still the UDR even if it was only $150 still sucks. Weak battery pack, and the only other option is 12 CR123's? The UDR is so big it looks like it could fit 3 32650's easy. $1000??? Any veteran flashoholic veteran CPFer could draw up a superior super thrower than the UDR in 20 minutes. SF supposedly spent years testing this thing? More like spent years trying to source specific parts from China at certain costs. For $1000 mega thrower I want no less than 400k, high def quality variable beam focus, micro USB rechargeable. The light would be computer programmable through same USB port and be able to choose how many modes I have and where they are along the given variable out put 4000 max lumen range. It needs to be able to take damn near any battery I want to put in it be it 16 AA Eneloop Pros, the latest high amp 18650's, 26650's up to 32650's. Ability to program how the light regulates direct drive, thermally, timed etc. It would be 1/4 smaller than the UDR, dive rated and for $1000 the ability to turn the smart ring to a range that changes tint color from very neutral to very cool for any given situation and environment. Hard wired throughout with thick wires extra strong solder points. All solid parts CNC machined on the latest highest tech CNC machines with bleeding edge machining programming to achieve truly flawless in design execution reflectors, heat sinking etc. $1000??? my choice of materials for my choice of sheath style. Only the best AR coating (in the prescription eyeglass world the highest quality I sell is called Sapphire its $80 per lens just for the coating). one side of the light would flip open and have an LCD GPS screen underneath using the latest GPS tech. The light would have at least a slow recharge itself function run off the heat going through the heatsinking.


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## tab665 (Sep 10, 2015)

CelticCross74 said:


> Still the UDR even if it was only $150 still sucks. Weak battery pack, and the only other option is 12 CR123's? The UDR is so big it looks like it could fit 3 32650's easy. $1000??? Any veteran flashoholic veteran CPFer could draw up a superior super thrower than the UDR in 20 minutes. SF supposedly spent years testing this thing? More like spent years trying to source specific parts from China at certain costs. For $1000 mega thrower I want no less than 400k, high def quality variable beam focus, micro USB rechargeable. The light would be computer programmable through same USB port and be able to choose how many modes I have and where they are along the given variable out put 4000 max lumen range. It needs to be able to take damn near any battery I want to put in it be it 16 AA Eneloop Pros, the latest high amp 18650's, 26650's up to 32650's. Ability to program how the light regulates direct drive, thermally, timed etc. It would be 1/4 smaller than the UDR, dive rated and for $1000 the ability to turn the smart ring to a range that changes tint color from very neutral to very cool for any given situation and environment. Hard wired throughout with thick wires extra strong solder points. All solid parts CNC machined on the latest highest tech CNC machines with bleeding edge machining programming to achieve truly flawless in design execution reflectors, heat sinking etc. $1000??? my choice of materials for my choice of sheath style. Only the best AR coating (in the prescription eyeglass world the highest quality I sell is called Sapphire its $80 per lens just for the coating). one side of the light would flip open and have an LCD GPS screen underneath using the latest GPS tech. The light would have at least a slow recharge itself function run off the heat going through the heatsinking.



the light you just described will never exist in my life time. by all means link me a light that has even a third of the things you just spewed off.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 10, 2015)

CelticCross74 said:


> going back to the SF site notice all the details are not there? On one page they proudly say made in the USA and then go even further saying in order to be considered made in the USA ALL the parts have to be US sourced then when you go to any of the product pages they all say the same thing "made in USA from USA made parts AND non US made parts" WTF? I almost bought the 1000 lumen 6PX 3xCR123 light then stopped for a second...they want THAT much for a light that has less features another mystery emitter etc. I already have over a dozen lights that smoke it for close to half the price. My light collection began in 1996 and I now have dozens upon dozens of mostly Chinese lights. Only ONE has failed in any way and it was a beat to death PD35 that lost its lower 3 modes. Emailed Fenix, they emailed me back an address in New York strangely enough to send it to for repair. Got the light back in less than two weeks and it works like new now at zero cost to me. Been in contact with Olight in China asking tech questions and always got a satisfactory return email from them in no more than a few hours.
> 
> The industry has made almighty leaps forward since 2000. The only Chinese maker Ive had problems with is Nitecore. Bought the SRT7 when it first came out a couple years ago. EDCd the hell out of it eventually the cheap "tactical ring" snapped in half. Been trying to get a replacement for a long long time. My emails to Nitecore either go totally unanswered or I get back links that just go straight to their website.
> 
> Still the UDR even if it was only $150 still sucks. Weak battery pack, and the only other option is 12 CR123's? The UDR is so big it looks like it could fit 3 32650's easy. $1000??? Any veteran flashoholic veteran CPFer could draw up a superior super thrower than the UDR in 20 minutes. SF supposedly spent years testing this thing? More like spent years trying to source specific parts from China at certain costs. For $1000 mega thrower I want no less than 400k, high def quality variable beam focus, micro USB rechargeable. The light would be computer programmable through same USB port and be able to choose how many modes I have and where they are along the given variable out put 4000 max lumen range. It needs to be able to take damn near any battery I want to put in it be it 16 AA Eneloop Pros, the latest high amp 18650's, 26650's up to 32650's. Ability to program how the light regulates direct drive, thermally, timed etc. It would be 1/4 smaller than the UDR, dive rated and for $1000 the ability to turn the smart ring to a range that changes tint color from very neutral to very cool for any given situation and environment. Hard wired throughout with thick wires extra strong solder points. All solid parts CNC machined on the latest highest tech CNC machines with bleeding edge machining programming to achieve truly flawless in design execution reflectors, heat sinking etc. $1000??? my choice of materials for my choice of sheath style. Only the best AR coating (in the prescription eyeglass world the highest quality I sell is called Sapphire its $80 per lens just for the coating). one side of the light would flip open and have an LCD GPS screen underneath using the latest GPS tech. The light would have at least a slow recharge itself function run off the heat going through the heatsinking.




OK if it has the rotary ring control I'll buy one - who makes it?


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## 880arm (Sep 10, 2015)

GMUGNIER said:


> TAB665 - Thanks for the information and thanks for posting your 2c worth - that is exactly what i am referring to. I haven't found anyone yet that is either - Number 1. willing to dissemble the factory pack to see if i can put aftermarket cells in, or Number 2. Able to confirm how the CR123 pack is wired - Sure Fire wont give me the info. And although i feel that it is ridiculous to have to spend this kind of money to get the support i want from a factory, i am willing to do so as i use a large light every day for work - (I had been using a RRT3) I really would prefer if i could figure out the battery situation prior to purchase.



The CR123 pack is wired for 12V (actually closer to 13V with no load and fresh batteries). The four batteries in each "leg" are in series and the three "legs" are then wired in parallel. 

When I had a review sample of the Dominator, I was going to try it with 6x16650s but they were slightly too long to fit in the CR123 carrier. I'm pretty confident I could have tweaked the carrier to make them fit but that wasn't something I could do with a review sample.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 10, 2015)

880arm - Thank you for the response - What do you mean by tweak? Can you be more descript? Were the batteries that you tried protected or unprotected flat cells? Do you think this would render the carrier unusable for the CR123 batteries? What about other sizes? And what do you think about the factory pack, can it be rebuilt using higher capacity cells?


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## 880arm (Sep 10, 2015)

It's been a while so I'm going by memory on all of this but Keeppower protected 16650s almost fit in the carrier. They were very close and if I had been willing to push harder, they may have snapped into place but, again, this was a review sample. The metal tabs at one (or maybe both ends) looked like they could be bent pretty easily so those batteries would fit. I can't remember how the length of 2x16650s compares to 4xCR123s so I can't say whether or not this would have impacted the use of primary batteries. I will only reiterate that the 16650s were very close to fitting.

The included rechargeable battery pack looked like it would be fairly easy to take apart, or at least remove the outer contact rings. It was built like a tank and even had an anodized aluminum shell around it. The dimensions were close to 36.6mm diameter x 157mm length so it would seem entirely plausible a person could fashion a battery pack from off the shelf lithium-ion cells.

Naturally I would expect any changes like these would void the warranty on a very expensive flashlight so I would consider them to be a sort of last resort.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 10, 2015)

880arm - Do you have any suggestions where i might find a battery carrier that would be suitable to fit inside of the UDR without any mods to the factory stuff? Sonething similar to the 3 18650 carriers that are in the SunWay Man light or the larger Jet Beam lights that have a battery carrier and fit 18650 batteries? Also the 16650's are a few mm longer than 2 CR123's so maybe some unprotected cells might do the trick?


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## 880arm (Sep 10, 2015)

I don't have any idea about alternative battery carriers. The tube is the same diameter as an M6/M6LT Guardian so it would seem that anyone who makes carriers for those lights could just make a longer version for the Dominator. I don't think the internal diameter is large enough for 6x18650 so you would probably be limited to 4x18650, 6x16650, or 2x26650.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 10, 2015)

880 - If you are referring to the M6 that Sure-Fire makes - then no-doubt it is Sure Fire that makes the carrier - It is 100.00 and It is not suitable for the 2 166650's or 18650's as it has a separator in the middle to accommodate individual 123 cells. As far as the 2 26650's that might be even a better alternative - does anyone have an idea if that may work?


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## 880arm (Sep 11, 2015)

I was referring to the M6 made by SureFire but not their battery carrier. There have been aftermarket modders who have made 2x18650 carriers suitable for use in the M6. Essentially the same parts could be used to make a longer version for the Dominator.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 11, 2015)

Would you mind sharing the names of the modders?


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## 880arm (Sep 11, 2015)

I don't recall their names but if you search in the "Custom and Modified Lights" sub-forum I'm sure you can track them down.


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## wuyeah (Sep 12, 2015)

In incan days, I buy a lot of Surefire. At once, I was having 20 Surefire lights. They were design unique and build tough.

Then LED came along, lots brands such as Jetbeam, Nitecore, Sunwayman...etc Chinese brands have homage off Surefire external designs. Their build is not as good as Surefire but not far apart from the price. Then these Chinese made brands are really taking on the LED market. Good price for the quality, high lumens, so many selection to choose from. It is really fun for shop and offer a lot of excitement to flashlight buying. With LED technology improvement moving so fast, it is very hard for me to open my wallet, spend big chunk of money for a Surefire. Not to mention Surefire models update is pretty slow in comparison.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 15, 2015)

wuyeah said:


> In incan days, I buy a lot of Surefire. At once, I was having 20 Surefire lights. They were design unique and build tough.
> 
> Then LED came along, lots brands such as Jetbeam, Nitecore, Sunwayman...etc Chinese brands have homage off Surefire external designs. Their build is not as good as Surefire but not far apart from the price. Then these Chinese made brands are really taking on the LED market. Good price for the quality, high lumens, so many selection to choose from. It is really fun for shop and offer a lot of excitement to flashlight buying. With LED technology improvement moving so fast, it is very hard for me to open my wallet, spend big chunk of money for a Surefire. Not to mention Surefire models update is pretty slow in comparison.




Well i guess the same could be said about many different manufacturing companies, and I could agree that the Chinese lights are leaps and bounds ahead of Sure Fire, but with that said as i have mentioned previously - maybe the Chinese guys should support the parts and service market for their products in a better fashion. i know I am not dropping another $400.00 on a Chinese light that may break down the road, knowing that i cant get parts. I can say one thing about Sure Fire - They definitely have a part when you need it 6 years down the road, and if they cant send you the part - they send you a new light.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 17, 2015)

So anyone with a better price than 853 yet?


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 18, 2015)

sledhead said:


> *No way to get my e-rings out without prying* ,so, I'll be leaving my battery pack alone. To be honest, sounds like your not a candidate for this light. Looks like you're doing your best to talk yourself out of it!
> 
> I'm keeping mine.....one of the best lights I've had.



What kind of e-rings are those? they appear to be unlike the standard rings with the holes that the ering pliers can loosen.


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## GMUGNIER (Sep 18, 2015)

880arm said:


> I don't recall their names but if you search in the "Custom and Modified Lights" sub-forum I'm sure you can track them down.



I tried a few different guys by doing a search and it seems that most of the ones that were actually doing the mods are either not very active here anymore, or have moved on to bigger and better things.


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## WarriorOfLight (Oct 26, 2015)

880arm said:


> I don't think the internal diameter is large enough for 6x18650 so you would probably be limited to 4x18650, 6x16650, or 2x26650.


6x efest 16650 fits in the battery carrier, and the light works so far with this cells. Since this cells are a little to short (at least 1mm I added a neodym magnet between each 2 cells in the charger and than the cells will stay in the battery carrier safely. But from my observation the UDR detects the battery carrier with the LiIon cells as normal battery pack. The gauge indicator is red, even if the cells are fresh from the charger. Seems the UDR is able to detect if the CR123 carrier is user or the original rechargable battery pack.


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## GMUGNIER (Oct 26, 2015)

Red indicates low voltage. It may still work - albeit at a lower output. I have only checked the fully charged factory pack once, as soon as it discharges i will check voltage again, the indicator is green on a full charge, but red when it gets to a certain level. I am waiting on a specific charger before i try the 16650's. I also may play around with the 26's or the 32's maybe even the mighty 36 to see if they work/fit as well. I have suspicions that it is two large cells instead of 6 smaller ones.


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## WarriorOfLight (Oct 26, 2015)

At all the voltage of each cells in serial connection should not exceed ~12V that 4 freash CR123 have. I'd say 3 4.2V cdlls in serial connection are too high.
With zwo cells I was shure to be on the safe side. I do not want to fry my UDR because of a too high voltage.


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## GMUGNIER (Oct 26, 2015)

I just checked the carrier with 12 CR123 fresh from a new box and the voltage is at 13V. I checked with a true RMS Fluke and received a 3.249V reading per cell. The included Li-Ion rechargeable battery pack label says 7.5Volts and 2800mAh. It was suggested by another member here that if two Sanyo 16650 ZTA button tops fit in the carrier, that would be the recommended cell for the 16550 and they are right around 9.00 a piece. It was also mentioned in another thread that the problem now is in finding somebody who adds a protection circuit to the newer Sanyo ZTA 4.35v cells. The main issue is getting a circuit that won't trip if you charge them up to 4.35v. Which will require a newer protection circuit,or a custom burned one. Also a special charger to get the 4.35v out of the cell. Hence why I am waiting for the new SkyRC MC 3000, which is in another thread as well. The standard cells only charge to 4.2 because of the protection. But the combo of what is suggested here will yield an approximate 7500mAh pack out of a 2S3P configuration using the ZTA 2500mAh cells at 4.35v, which is almost triple the capacity of the $522.00 SureFire proprietary battery pack. Once again thanks Chris, :twothumbs really good info. The battery thread is here http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?408454-Best-or-latest-16550-or-similar-cell


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## WarriorOfLight (Oct 27, 2015)

I assume the base problem is the UDR is able to detect if the battery pack or the battery carrier is inserted. Both have 3 contacts. But the battery carrier has only 2 contacts in use. the battery pack has all 3 contacts in use. 
I assume the UDR behaves different depending if the battery carrier or battery pack is inserted. In general even with 4.2V LiIon cells the UDR should not detect the cells as empty if the light is not able to detect if the battery carrier or battery pack is inserted.

But at all even with 6x efest 16650 the UDR is bright, maybe not that bright in comparsion to the original battery pack or 12xCR123, but bright enough to me.

Btw. how do you know the price of the original Surefire Battery Pack, $522 is really expensive... it is almost 50% of the price for a new light with all accessory.


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## GMUGNIER (Oct 27, 2015)

WarriorOfLight said:


> I assume the base problem is the UDR is able to detect if the battery pack or the battery carrier is inserted. Both have 3 contacts. But the battery carrier has only 2 contacts in use. the battery pack has all 3 contacts in use.
> I assume the UDR behaves different depending if the battery carrier or battery pack is inserted. In general even with 4.2V LiIon cells the UDR should not detect the cells as empty if the light is not able to detect if the battery carrier or battery pack is inserted.
> 
> But at all even with 6x efest 16650 the UDR is bright, maybe not that bright in comparsion to the original battery pack or 12xCR123, but bright enough to me.
> ...



While i wont make comment on how i learned of the price - Hopefully if we can charge the cells to 4.35v maybe the light would be green instead of red. Do you have a way to charge to 4.35v?


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## ganymede (Oct 27, 2015)

Hobby chargers with TVC (Terminal Voltage Control) function will be able to charge the cells higher than 4.2V.


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## GMUGNIER (Oct 27, 2015)

WarriorOfLight said:


> I assume the base problem is the UDR is able to detect if the battery pack or the battery carrier is inserted. _*Both have 3 contacts. But the battery carrier has only 2 contacts in use.*_ the battery pack has all 3 contacts in use.
> I assume the UDR behaves different depending if the battery carrier or battery pack is inserted. In general even with 4.2V LiIon cells the UDR should not detect the cells as empty if the light is not able to detect if the battery carrier or battery pack is inserted.
> 
> But at all even with 6x efest 16650 the UDR is bright, maybe not that bright in comparsion to the original battery pack or 12xCR123, but bright enough to me.
> ...



I am thinking that is probably so that the primaries do not receive a charge if the light is accidentally plugged in while the battery carrier is in the light?


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## bykfixer (Oct 27, 2015)

You do not have to be "rich" to own this light.

It helps...but I know guys who are far from rich who buy the best stuff money can buy with their Christmas bonus $ or plunk down their gold card and make payments...
Some of those marsh racoon hunters have some serious flashlights..

I know many, many many hunters who spend $500 on a cooler...a cooler! 
yall probably do too...
$300+ on boots...$400+ on a hunting coat...and then there's a weapon...or weapons...
Serious sportsmen buy serious gear. 

Now for walking the dog? Yeah rich people..who pay somebody to walk the dog..."oh, just grab that dusty ole light off the shelf and use it to make sure Tralfaz doesn't stub his nails...he just had them trimmed and painted ya know"...

Plenty of hells accountants type folks have $35k mid life crisis Harleys..that get ridden oh...5-6 times a year...they'd pay $1200 for a flashlight if the neighbor has one....or if dude down the street with 2-$35k Harleys has one...

I know a guy who isn't rich whohas $100k tied up in his tools and tool chest. He owns $300+ flashlights. 
Reliability.

It's why I bought Malkoffs and Elzettas...and some Sure Fires too.


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## WarriorOfLight (Oct 28, 2015)

GMUGNIER said:


> While i wont make comment on how i learned of the price - Hopefully if we can charge the cells to 4.35v maybe the light would be green instead of red. Do you have a way to charge to 4.35v?


No I do not have a way to charge 4.35V. Also the efest cells are specified @4.2V.



GMUGNIER said:


> I am thinking that is probably so that the primaries do not receive a charge if the light is accidentally plugged in while the battery carrier is in the light?


I assume this is one reason. But I also think the light is able to detect the power source (battery carrier or battery pack). The voltage of the battery pack (7.5V) and battery carrier with 12 CR123 (12V) are very far from each other, that is the reason I assume the light behaves different depending on the source. The UDR would have enough space in the light head for a more complex electronic.

But since nooone opened the battery pack we can only assume how the UDR works. MAybe when I have time I'll set up a battery carrier with 3 CR123 cells in each line plus one dummy cell - I should have 3 CR123 dummies. That would exactly the voltage range that 2xLiIon cell would give, and I'm pretty sure the indicator would be red.


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## easilyled (Oct 28, 2015)

The thing I don't understand with these type of threads which occur all the time is that nobody seems to laugh when somebody splashes out thousands of dollars on a Rolex or Omega watch. The Seiko watches are probably even more accurate and extremely reliable and cost 10 or 20 times less.

Some people just want the "kudos" of owning a Rolex or Omega though and this is generally regarded as being understandable.

So what's different in this case? 

Surefire are branding and pricing themselves as the Rolex of flashlights. People will either buy into that (literally) or they won't. Why laugh at the ones that do?


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## bykfixer (Oct 28, 2015)

^^ then they buy $25 chinese junk flashlights...


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## GMUGNIER (Oct 28, 2015)

Well EasilyLED - I agree to a point with your statement, although SureFire does indeed cater to the professional and elite sportsman industry. I must concur that they do brand themselves as a luxury item of sorts, if not purely by the high price of their products. We do have to remember here that HK is more expensive than Ruger as well. Now if that is justified or not with the payback on R&D is really a topic of debate all on it own, however the biggest difference i see between SureFire and let's use Rolex as an example here, is that SureFire_ tries _to cater to the real professionals that cant afford these high end products otherwise, and that is reflected in a substantial discount that is offered to those professionals with an active law or military status. I think that shows those professional a certain degree of thanks for using their super expensive products. But as an overall statement i do agree that SureFire is not a cheap brand and they pride themselves for keeping it in the USA. And that my friend is worth the money to me - period.


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## easilyled (Oct 28, 2015)

please delete


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## easilyled (Oct 28, 2015)

I agree that the analogy is not completely perfect GMUGNIER.

My point was more the fact that flashlights seems to be fair game when it comes to mocking those that spend what is perceived as a ridiculously high amount of money. It could be on a Surefire flashlight like this one or a custom Titanium flashlight like the Tri-V 007.

Yet these spending patterns occur in all walks of life. So why is it in particular expensive flashlights that are considered so ridiculous to buy? And why are the people that mock them participating in a forum that has been set-up to encourage us to enjoy flashlights at many different levels and for many different purposes, not least to admire the workmanship and design elements at the more luxury end. Nobody is forcing them to buy them.


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## Alex1234 (Oct 28, 2015)

easilyled said:


> I agree that the analogy is not completely perfect GMUGNIER.
> 
> My point was more the fact that flashlights seems to be fair game when it comes to mocking those that spend what is perceived as a ridiculously high amount of money. It could be on a Surefire flashlight like this one or a custom Titanium flashlight like the Tri-V 007.
> 
> Yet these spending patterns occur in all walks of life. So why is it in particular expensive flashlights that are considered so ridiculous to buy? And why are the people that mock them participating in a forum that has been set-up to encourage us to enjoy flashlights at many different levels and for many different purposes, not least to admire the workmanship and design elements at the more luxury end. Nobody is forcing them to buy them.




i started this thread to get a convo started. sometimes a controversial title can lead to great conversation about a light. I do believe it worked  do i still agree this light is over priced for the performance you get of course but thats the only factor i put into my title. im also not mocking anyone. if anyone wants to spend that much on a light then that's your right and i could care less. quality and customer service is most likely much better then the Chinese manufactures and that costs more. if someone gifted this light to be id be ecstatic. I would take it to every trip i go on due to surefire's reliability. although if i did get this light for free i would send it to vinh the same day i received it. if this light had the xhp70 led pushing 5000 lumens that would be much better. but this light stock performance wise is meh especially when i just bought vinhs TK75Q70 that puts out a whopping 14,000 plus lumens in a smaller size and uses 18650s. it costs $500 which is well over what i said id ever pay for a flashlight but the performance is just insane and worth every penny.


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## easilyled (Oct 28, 2015)

Alex1234 said:


> i started this thread to get a convo started. sometimes a controversial title can lead to great conversation about a light. I do believe it worked  do i still agree this light is over priced for the performance you get of course but thats the only factor i put into my title. im also not mocking anyone. if anyone wants to spend that much on a light then that's your right and i could care less. quality and customer service is most likely much better then the Chinese manufactures and that costs more. if someone gifted this light to be id be ecstatic. I would take it to every trip i go on due to surefire's reliability. although if i did get this light for free i would send it to vinh the same day i received it. if this light had the xhp70 led pushing 5000 lumens that would be much better. but this light stock performance wise is meh especially when i just bought vinhs TK75Q70 that puts out a whopping 14,000 plus lumens in a smaller size and uses 18650s. it costs $500 which is well over what i said id ever pay but the performance is just insane and worth every penny.



So you virtually admit that your title was baiting and that you consider raw light output to be by far your most important criterion, regardless of whether the heat-sinking and the rest of the flashlight is actually designed to withstand that output or not.


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## Alex1234 (Oct 28, 2015)

well i have owned about 80 lights from vinh over the past 4 years and all have been pushed to there limit. never once have i ever had a heat sinking issue. hes light have been insanely reliable so yes i do take that into concentration when i buy a light. 
as for the title there is nothing wrong with stirring the pot a bit and if it bothers you so much just ignore it. all 5 pages of replies have not got out of hand so i see no reason to delete this post and if the moderators thought this thread was baiting it would have been deleted months ago. the only one cause drama now is you


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## lightlover (Oct 28, 2015)

Sirs: 

*easilyled *and *Alex1234

*You two are both "ranked" CPF members. 

(Ummm ... having said that ... Ummm ... I don't know what else to say ... ) 

Regards to you two!


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## tab665 (Oct 28, 2015)

good to see you guys have started trying out rechargables in the CR123 carrier!


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## Greta (Oct 28, 2015)

Take it down a notch gentlemen. :tsk:


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## lightlover (Oct 28, 2015)

Greta said:


> *... gentlemen.* :tsk:



Which they both are ...

(What!? Grateful to Greta - Who? ME!??) 

[ Technology changes qwik - but beginning to appreciate The Boss! ]
[No - No! SHE is too SCARY!!]


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## hugodrax (Apr 18, 2017)

GMUGNIER said:


> Well i guess the same could be said about many different manufacturing companies, and I could agree that the Chinese lights are leaps and bounds ahead of Sure Fire, but with that said as i have mentioned previously - maybe the Chinese guys should support the parts and service market for their products in a better fashion. i know I am not dropping another $400.00 on a Chinese light that may break down the road, knowing that i cant get parts. I can say one thing about Sure Fire - They definitely have a part when you need it 6 years down the road, and if they cant send you the part - they send you a new light.



But when you buy a light (I will use the TK-75 I bought when it first came out late 2012) I have gotten over 5 years of heavy work use out of it not one issue, at 200 and no need to buy crates of disposable batteries to run it. So reliability is not an issue with Chinese manufacturing companies, Fenix seems to excel in providing great work lights at great prices. Not only that but it actually seems like Fenix spends plenty of time doing R&D on future products.

They will provide full specs on the website (ie IPX rating etc..)

Also, at 200 bucks if a part breaks 6 years down the line I just buy a new and improved model of the same light LOL.

Surefire primarily lives on govt largesse This is why they price something like the UDT Dominator at such prices. Oh yes they do get used by the DoD and crates of the batteries as well.

Would you pay 800 dollars for a Hammer? because that 800 dollar hammer manufacturer prices it for DoD/GSA contract sales?


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 19, 2017)

Best not to redo what has been said in the prior 133 posts. This thread has run it's course.

Bill


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