# Official "Firefly" Thread



## DSpeck (May 19, 2003)

*Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

At the request of others, and because it's a good idea, I am starting this new thread to discuss the "Firefly" light I will be producing this summer. It was originally Larry's (tvodrd's) design, and I thank him for his generosity in allowing others to use it. Please see the "small LS/123 light" thread for the original design.

I really like the design, and many people requested someone to build this light, so I'm stepping in to do that. It will have some variations from the original, but will stay true to the intentions of Larry's design - about as small a light as you can make using a Luxeon and a 123 battery.

My design will use a dat2zip MadMax driver/regulator board for the electronics. It will have a cut-down optic in it for photon management. I suggested using a flood-style integral reflector, but that was not seen as a popular move.

If there is demand for it, I will offer the light as complete but for the sandwich, and those who have a sandwich already can pop in their own unit, thus saving the cost of the driver.

The finish of the light will be hard anodized, but I would prefer to use a different colour, rather than the standard natural or black that most companies use. I am partial to making this light in a dark blue HA, so as to be distinct from everyone else's light. If you have an opinion on this issue, please use this thread to express it. I will try to post pictures of samples of the colour once I've discussed it with the anodizers, so everyone can have an idea of what it will look like.

The delivery time for this light is to be "before the end of the summer". I would like to have them done even earlier than that, but I have had delays in some previous projects, so I am trying not to make promises I can't keep. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Please use this thread for all discussions of the Firefly, so I can keep track of and respond to them... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## yclo (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

First dibbs!


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## FalconFX (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

2nd! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

You might (I stress the might) be able to have it where someone can stick in a complete MadMax+ module, or instantly switch it out for a complete BB500 or BB400 (hot swappable LS /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif )... Somewhat like the current drop-ins... You can switch in different colored LSs, switch in a smaller current-drawing LS for longer runtime or a blaring one for brightness. 

Just a thought...


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## Trent (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Thanks for making this light, a lot of us are waiting for it.Blue is great for the color. Are yor going to serial # them? Are you going to offer it with out the Madmax for sure so we could go ahead and order it in case there is a shortage when your light comes out? Can we get on a waiting list for your light? A lot of questions but Im excited about the prospect of getting one of these.
Thanks Trent


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## Roy (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I like the idea of at least haveing the option to supply my own pill.

I'd like to keep the cost down...how much would be saved by NOT anodizing the Firefly? 

Is bead blasting cheaper than anodizing? I like the way bead blasting hides seams and creates a non slip surface. I have a Brinkmann LX that has been trimed down and bead blasted...a nice satin finish.

Like you I like a flood light in something this snall...an option? Kinda like a Mc Flood?


You build it and they will come!


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## revolvergeek (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I think a dark blue HA would be perfect! Any rough guess-timates on pricing? Are there any plans for colored LS's?


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## x-ray (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

Wouldn't simply removing the optics allow a quick switch from spot to flood (assuming the optics are not holding the Badboy/Madmax module in place) ?

I like Roys beadblasting idea /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## DSpeck (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Well, that's a lot of questions in a short time! Cool... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

The Madmax modules (yes, that part is definite) will be user-replaceable. I am in discussions with Wayne as to the modules I will use. BTW, if you use a Madmax+ in this little guy, you WILL burn your fingers, and I expect it won't take too long, either. I'm using the Madmax because it can be turned down a little to reduce the heat produced.

There are no current plans to offer these with any coloured luxeons, but since the module will be replaceable, I don't see that as a problem.

Roy, I plan to anodize them all, as not anodizing them won't save much money. Where you'll save is installing your own module. I am ordering enough modules for all of the planned units, but you may order yours without one.

I am aiming for a price of around $100-$110, depending on my costs. There is quite a bit of machining on these, so I don't expect it to be much less than that.

I will look into having these laser-etched - that's a good idea.


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## tsg68 (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I am in too, I prefer natural HA but would still go for the blue.

later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## AlphaTea (May 19, 2003)

*DSpeck---You da man!!*

DSpeck, Im so excited about this new project of yours! I am *MOST IMPRESSED* with my UBH II and E2C. Im all for keeping the costs down, but having a choice in HA/Bead blasting or with/without MM or BB is a cool idea. My choice would be for a <font color="brown">Beadblasted</font> one without a sammich. Reasons:
All of my flashlights are either HA of some kind or Black (MM's dont count) except the McLux. I think the beadblasting on the McLux is just plain _Bitchin'_! Picking our own optics and sandwich would cut down on assembly time and cost. Of course, you might get a price break for bulk.
How ever you decide to do this, Im sure that you will get orders for _at least_ 200 or more and each will be worth twice the asking price. Make a lot of extras too, these have a pretty big "WOW" factor and word of mouth along with buddy-demo's can sell oodles!
One last thing...Im not gonna pay $601 for one of these 

Damn Doug, you type fast, I went to let the dog out while I was typing this. By the time I got back and finished there were two post before mine...


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## FalconFX (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I second some sort of engraving... 

Maybe a CPF engraving...


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## d'mo (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Sorry guys, I've got first dibs from a PM sent to Doug a few weeks ago. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Mwhuahahhahahahah!


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## Kercheval (May 19, 2003)

*Re: DSpeck---You da man!!*

As I mentioned in your previous thread on this, I would be in for at least a couple of these. 

- A deep blue HA would be fine.
- Optics. You might consider making the well of this light a bowl which would double duty as a flood (similar to the CMG Ultra or Arc AAA) but would fit the NX05 turned optic you will supply. This would give a reasonable internal look. I am not sure about the tolerances around the LED or the mounting you will use against the bezel.

Do you have a ETA for when ordering is likely to commence?


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## DSpeck (May 19, 2003)

*Re: DSpeck---You da man!!*

d'mo's right, he posted a long time ago. Now, not to worry, there will be plenty for all!

Kercheval, I like your idea of the turned bowl/reflector, but I think the copper will absorb a fair bit of the light, so it won't do that much for the beam. I'll check it out. Ordering for these is a couple of weeks out, as I haven't sent out the RFQs for the machining yet.

AlphaTea, I hear you on the beadblasting, but I don't think it will look as good under the anodizing - a smooth surface under the anodize looks the best. I would really rather do these all the same finish. I don't want to get into multiple finishes (like adding the EN of the TK McLux), as the cost goes up quite a bit, and bare aluminum would get all scratched up farily quickly. This is a premium piece - it should look good for as long as possible! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## obeck (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

Im in for at least one, maybe two depending on final price. 

1. I like the drop in MM option. In fact, I probably would not get one (or two!) without that option, as I 
have too many luxeon lights (including sandwiches) already. 
2. I like the "different color" idea. I also liked the two-toned look with the bronzy/brassy section of the 
original "small 123"
3. Some amount of focusing/beam forming would be good, but it is not essential if it greatly increases the
size/complexity/heat buildup of the light. 

I'd say that my biggest concern with the small 123 design is the heat build up... will it be too hot to hold or be a fire
hazard?


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## DSpeck (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

obeck - the heat shouldn't be too bad. Larry found that his (running from a micropuck) didn't get too hot to handle, and that's why the Madmax module - so you can adjust it down if it gets too hot.


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## belyo (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

A fantastic project started. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Is there the person who can make a color sample with Photoshop? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Mr. Blue (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

Oh Brother, another light!


I AM IN!!!!!


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## The_LED_Museum (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" thread*

I thought this thread was for Tektite's Firefly, but I see I was mistaken. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
I see this is *another* flashlight I absolutely, positively must have!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
I don't have any Mad Max's from the Sandwich Shop though, so I'd need a TK unit. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


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## Joe400 (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

DSpeck thats great news! You can also count me in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## tylerdurden (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Is the $100-$110 target price for the complete unit with the sandwich and turned-down optics? 

Will the sandwichless version come with the turned-down optics? If not, will they be available seperately?


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## pjenkins00 (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

count me as almost certainly in. i like the idea of being able to swap out the modules. i'd better not miss ordering this one. i hope someone makes the "small cr2" design as well though. i took a look at the two batteries side by side and the cr2 is a bit smaller. still, this should be sweet!

Pete


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## tylerdurden (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

One more question, will the InReTech AA modules work with this design?


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## DSpeck (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Thanks for the support and interest, everyone!

tylerdurden, the target price is for the turnkey units, complete (possibly with battery). This includes sandwich, optics and so on. The sandwich-less unit will come complete with optics. I don't expect they will be available seperately.

Craig, I'll see about getting you one for review.

belyo, if you look at Larry's original light, you should be able to get a good idea of what the Firefly will look like.


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## jdriller (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I'm in!!!!! You do great work Doug. I'm down for the turnkey. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


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## avusblue (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Definitely count me in. I love the idea for dark blue. And I'd be willing to prepay . . . . because on the McLux, when it finally arrived, it seemed like it was free!

Good luck on this project, and thanks!!

Dave


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## Roy (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Brass? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## FalconFX (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Titanium! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


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## Tomas (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Nice to see the Firefly has it's own thread! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

These are just some comments, in random order:

1) For HA3 anodize colors one might want to look at the pic that Peter supplied in his thread asking patrons about preferred colors - he had a pic of several HA3 anodized blanks in a number of colors there in the Arc forum ... 

2) I would hope that before you "open the store," Doug, that you will provide a spec on the salient features of the Firefly - and definately at what current they will be set to "out of the packaging." 

3) Details: Some of what attracted me to the LarryLight 123 was the simplicity and ruggedness of the design, with each part complementing the next. Will the Firefly be as simple, will it have the protective lens in front of the optics, etc.

4) I did actually like the two-tone "gee-that-looks-like-a-Duracell" anodizing of the LL123. Have you considered any two-tone color schemes?

Finally, thank you very much for taking on this project - it's going to be a lot of work, but a whole bunch of us are going to be very happy you did it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

Take care,


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## electricdude (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Count me in for sure.
Electricdude


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## mastershake (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I will take as many as you can make!


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## Stainless (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

#1. This could get "big".

#2. Pace yourself.

#3. Your "signature color" sounds good.

#4. A spot beam might complement the McFlood beams that many of us lucky people just got.

#5. Thank you.

#6. Thank you.

#7. Thank you.


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## bwcaw (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I have second dibs! I sent an e-mail to you about three weeks ago asking for one. I hope there will be one for me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Anyway, I am glad to see this produced! If it turns out as good as your UBH II, and e2c adaptors it will be exceptional! 

I like the idea of HA blue. I am getting kinda sick of all the olive drab lights that I have now. Even black HA would be nice. I really like the finish on my UBH, it is slightly shiny and looks really cool! Something like that in black or blue would be really nice. And I have the modding skills of an ape, so count me in for a TK! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Do you want Paypal now or later?


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## pdm (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Dspeck, I'm in for at least one, possibly two, depending on price.

Blue is great, though darker the better. 

Thanks,
Paul

BTW the UBH is a blast! I assembled a SF 9V which is about 1/2 the size of a 9P (used the SF thread adapter to mount a 9z head and the switch off of a E2, works great.)


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## ufokillerz (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

interested in 1 maybe 2 depending on final price


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## Fusion (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

The price will definately determine how many I buy...


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## bmstrong (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I'm in for at least one!

Brian


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## Y2Kirk1028 (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Put me down for 1.


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## shiftd (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

second to fusion. 
Any chance of being able to put BB700 in there? this will be intermittent light. Apology if this was a stupid question. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## bucken (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I'm also in for at least one!


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## tvodrd (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Doug,

A few helpful _hints_:

1. Lens is #ZEMG-163 from http://www.ofrei.com/page_176.html

2. Lens gasket is .640" O.D. x .560" I.D., .020" clear silicone rubber sheet #86915k12 from http://www.mcmaster.com You can make a punch out of aluminum(!) that will do the job for 100pc or so. Use the punch in an arbor press or drill press with a polyethylene sheet under the silicone to punch against.

3. 1/8" silicone foam rubber sheet #8785k82 (4-5 firmness) from Mcmaster makes an excellent anti-battery rattle washer. It "punches" by hand. (Gotta send JonSidneyB a couple of those /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif .) 

4. O-rings are -015 size. You better prototype the "squeeze!" The bezel was set to probably 25-30% so as to be difficult to unscrew, without having to use locking compound/sealant. Squeeze on the battery case ring is trickier- people vary. IMO, you should set it a _little_ tight, and also provide a -14 ring for people who want it easier.(Buna O-rings are 3 cents, and lube matters!)

4. Your modded optic will require a flange that bears against the copper (If you use copper) when the bezel is tightened down. For a design using Wayne's drop-ins, the optic must not be allowed to bear against the LS/module or it could force the module's front face out of electrical and thermal contact. Worst case, it could still be making electrical contact, but next to nil thermal.(Interestingly, I don't recall Wayne ever advocating thermal paste in that area.)

5. The lanyard attachment and off-axis battery contacts represent "second operations" at your machine shop(s) and are going to add cost! These are the main areas for some savings- reminds me, if you use a wire retaining ring to retain the "sandwich," you should use a tapered (forward) groove to compensate for module-to-module variation. Also, the module will require a raised (.030 or so) + contact, otherwise the sides of the battery may hit before + contact is made. This could be just a solder bead (which may require periodic refreshment /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif .)

I have consternated/constipated/whatever whether to PM you this or to post it here. I appreciate being credited for "the design," but yours is, in fact, a fairly major redesign. You will deserve the credit or..... I again highly recommend that you prototype it prior to production. (Lubarsky's Law of cybernetic entymology: "There's always one more bug.") (Not to mention, Murphy was an optimist!)

Larry


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## DSpeck (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Lots of interest, that's excellent! I will be making a run of at least 100 to start with, more if the pre-orders require it. The pre-orders/payments will allow me to pay for the machining/anodizing/sandwiches etc. I will have as many done as I can afford to do, and sell the extras afterwards. If I can, I will do more in the future, but the demand during this inital run will determine that. 


BTW, shiftd, if you put a BB700 in there, you can be very sure it will be an intermittent light! I would expect it to get too hot to hold in 30 seconds or a minute...maybe less, as I haven't seen one in person yet. If you do that and burn yourself, I reserve the right to say, "Tsk! Tsk! Told you so..." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## DSpeck (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Larry, thanks for the excellent advice. I will look at my design carefully, keeping your words in mind. The parts about the O-rings I am familiar with from other mods, but the silicone sheet info is invaluable! The raised + contat is something I'd not looked at yet, so that helps too... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## V8TOYTRUCK (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

So is this around the brightness of a KL1? If so put me down for 1. Does the person who named it get a discount? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## keithhr (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

count me in on this one.


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## mastershake (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Any idea on when they will be done and how much they will cost?


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## tylerdurden (May 19, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

OK I'm in, and willing to prepay. I think the dark blue HA looks great, judging from the Arc samples. Then again, the red looked good too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## koala (May 19, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

First of all, thanks for bringing the light to CPF your effort is greatly appreciated.

On the anondizing, you can read out ARC polls on anondizing colors. That might give you some clue which one to choose. IMHO, the first run should make it natural anondize as it suits everyone like the ARC LSx. Some colors like blue puts off some people. Natural fits on everyone, extra color brights up the day but the size and funtionality of firefly is the topic.


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## Pi_is_blue (May 20, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I hope it won't cost as much as the auctioned one! It was over $600 at the end of the auction! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


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## Rothrandir (May 20, 2003)

*Re: Official*

i don't think it will end up costing quite that much /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

actually, i think beadblasted with blue ha3 would look very nice... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


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## Icebreak (May 20, 2003)

*Re: Official FireFly thread*

On the name. 

FireFly. More than one company already offers a light with the same name. TLEDM has a review of one. I took a look at all of them and none of them are anything at all like this sweetie. Since this will be a favor of design engineering by tvodr and a favor of engineering construction by Dspeck basically just for us at this point, "FireFly" is great. If Dspeck goes commercial with it then maybe we could help with a different name. No contest, just help. I grew up in the south and have seen masses of glow bugs adorning the woods in the summer. Unbelievably to me; I saw the first fire fly of this summer moments ago.

On optics.

Turned down optics? Oh yea.

On parts.

Copper parts? Oh yea.

On color.

I would like flat black HA III for everything I carry. But this is such a small wonder that camouflage is not that important. Really, when I think about it, blue HA with the exposed copper ring would make a gorgeous light. I'm in for blue HA.

On price.

$110.00 for TK? Maybe a tad low considering labor; all the labor. 

On payment.

If I am to expect Dspeck to invest 7 - 15 grand in this I would expect to pre-pay.


On time.

90 days? If this can be done in 3 mo. that would be amazing. I might have suggested the holiday season 2003. 

On fun.

I would hope we all have fun with this, including Dspeck.

On tvodr.

I would have liked to have seen the presentation of the S123LS to tvodr's Director of Engineering. I'll bet the whole division enjoyed that.


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## belyo (May 20, 2003)

*Re: Official FireFly thread*

I want "spare battery carrier" designed in the same way as FireFly. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Wits' End (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*Tomas said:*
Nice to see the Firefly has it's own thread! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

3) Details: Some of what attracted me to the LarryLight 123 was the simplicity and ruggedness of the design, with each part complementing the next. Will the Firefly be as simple, will it have the protective lens in front of the optics, etc.
4) I did actually like the two-tone "gee-that-looks-like-a-Duracell" anodizing of the LL123. Have you considered any two-tone color schemes?

Finally, thank you very much for taking on this project - it's going to be a lot of work, but a whole bunch of us are going to be very happy you did it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 
Take care,


[/ QUOTE ]
DSpeck I just wanted to get your input on these. And say ditto to the thanks and take care. Hope it all works out well and you don't overdo your schedule. Thanks again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## flash.... (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Dark Blue HA!! Awesome!
CPF logo!! Awesome!
Madmax Awesome!
DIY Kits Awesome!
Thank you sir.

GO GO GO Man!! and don't look back /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## JonSidneyB (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I am in.....


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## DSpeck (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

On the name - Firefly sounded good to me, (small, bright point of light), but if it is already in use for flashlights, perhaps we could come up with something else. I would like to offer this to a larger audience at some point, so maybe it would be best to get the name straightened out early, to avoid difficulties in the future.

On the price - I did post the target price, which is approximately $100-$110 US. I will know more in a few weeks, and will post a firm price when it is set.

On the dark blue anodize - it's sounding better all the time, and I will soon go up to the anodizers to consult with them about what they can provide for me.

On pre-orders - definitely. That's how I get the money to have the work done. Those who pre-order will get their lights first, and then those who buy the extra ones will have theirs shipped. Please pre-order, as that will guarantee that you'll get all the lights you order. You may miss the sale of the extras, or only get a limited number.

On the spare battery carrier like this light - I might be able to provide that. It would just need a cap, as the battery compartment will provide the storage space.


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## FalconFX (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

So Doug, am I reading that those who send you a payment right now are on lineup? 

Hmm.. You have a PM...


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## JonSidneyB (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

It would be fun to compare tvodr's creation to the Firefly for comparison. Unfortunatly I shot a bit of money on the auction light and will need to wait for a paycheck before I could get in on this. I hope ya can hold one back for me to buy... like I said, I would love to be able to compare the two...


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## DSpeck (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Falcon (and everyone), don't send payment until I have set the price. It would be a pain to try and straighten out under and overpayments later on, so it's better to hold off until I'm all ready for you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

JonSidneyB, you are indeed a TRUE Flashaholic. It will be a few weeks until I can get all the details nailed down, so you have some breathing space... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## FalconFX (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
10-4...


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## Kiessling (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

count me in for at least one or two.
colored anodize would be fine, but I'll accept anything you offer on this little precious.
bernhard


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## bwcaw (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

How about "pocket rocket" for the name? I suggested this in the other small 123/luxeon light thread too. I don't think there are any other lights out there with that name. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## lildave (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I'll take one.


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## shiftd (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Bwcaw, there are atleast 3 products that uses the name. firefly name only used once, that is why it is more appropriate. the proof? I got to ask the mighty Bart for his helps.


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## tylerdurden (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

How about the "Noisy Cricket" - after the gun of the same name in Men in Black. Tiny little gun, big huge bang.


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## Wolfen (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

At least one for me.


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## Dave Wright (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I'll take a DIY kit. I have several dat2zip modules lying around already. Presume that everything else needed, including the optic, will come with the DIY kit. When the final price is posted I'll send money right away. Many thanks for working this out!

FWIW, I really like raw looking materials. Tarnished brass and copper look great to my eyes. No big deal though. I'll be happy with whatever finish & engraving you choose.


----------



## Trent (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Microblast,MicroFire,FireBug,Minilite,Minilux,Pocketburner...........


----------



## Stainless (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Name: If not "Firefly", then how about "GlowBug"?
(Or do you suppose that Blinky has that one patented?) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Dave Wright (May 20, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Oh yea...Tomas suggestion to make it two tone like the original is a great one. That was far more cool looking than the plain gray ones.

All gold would be nice too, sort of a brass look, but maybe HA III isn't available in that color.


----------



## bwcaw (May 21, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*shiftd said:*
Bwcaw, there are atleast 3 products that uses the name. firefly name only used once, that is why it is more appropriate. the proof? I got to ask the mighty Bart for his helps. 

[/ QUOTE ]

There are three flashlights with that name? I didn't know that. Ok how about Miniblaster? Keylux? Cpf wonderlight? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif


----------



## keithhr (May 21, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

larry-lite
micro torch
da bomb
glo-nub


----------



## Icebreak (May 21, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I'm thinking this light has great potential to be highly successful; so much so, that Doug *has* to explore his commerical possibilities. When this happens I'll bet many color choices will become available.

As a name, FireFly was perfect. It maybe helpful if when we think of a name we do a [email protected], I mean a search, I mean a multi-search engine, I mean a Google...all I do is type [(my suggested name) (flashlight)] without the brackets and parens. This quick search method could save Doug's project some time and labor.

Just my two copper parts.


----------



## monanza (May 21, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Well Doug, you know me. Definitely put me down for a couple or three. I would suggest you negotiate with Wayne for 270-330mA BBs with high dome Q's. This should be sufficiently bright. Let us know when to paypal.

Color: Dark blue HAIII sounds sweet but will live with unrelieved black if necessary.

Cheers.


----------



## Shark (May 21, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I'm good for two. Dark blue sounds awsome. But red and gold are closer to a real firefly's colours. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Tomas (May 21, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

270-330mA 'Q' BB's would be FANTASTIC! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

As to two-tone color scheme, one additional advantage would be that mismatches of color between parts would no longer be a problem ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif 

(Was the original LL123-LS in black and bronze HA3? I dunno. There are still a lot of color combinations that might look nice, even black and blue. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )


----------



## Mr. Blue (May 21, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

is the order in this thread the order of the order of the order?


----------



## tkl (May 21, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

i'm in, and i much prefer HA.


----------



## tkl (May 21, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

i guess this is a low dome?


----------



## brightnorm (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Doug,

I'm in for at least one.

___________________________________________________________

LIGHTMITE No Googles

BRIGHTMITE No Googles

BRITEMITE No Googles

MINI MICROLITE No Googles

MICRO MINILITE No Googles

FIREFLY-BRITE No Googles

MICRO MINILUX No Googles

MINI MICROLUX NO GOOGLES
__________________________________________________________

MICROMITE Too many Googles

MICROLITE Too many Googles

FIRELUX Several Googles

MICROLUX Too many Googles

MINILUX Too many Googles

BRITELUX Several Googles

FIREMITE Several Googles, none flashlight-related (RC model planes etc)

MINIMITE - Too many Googles

________________________________________________________


Brightnorm (Two Googles from CPF)


----------



## Roy (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Brightnorm are you submitting your name? "I'll take two Brightnorms please"! Has a nice ring to it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## brightnorm (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*Roy said:*
Brightnorm are you submitting your name? "I'll take two Brightnorms please"! Has a nice ring to it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

My girlfriend says one is more than enough /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BN


----------



## Icebreak (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I really like BRIGHTMITE. Maybe LIGHTMITE could be reserved for SE rendetions.

"Here I come to save the day. You know that mighty BRIGHTMITE is on it's way."

* the Mighty Mouse song *


----------



## Icebreak (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Very wise GF. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## brightnorm (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Thanks a bunch!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## brightnorm (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Special CPF edition

The NERDLITE

BN


----------



## Icebreak (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

You win. I should know better.


----------



## BrightLight (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I'm in for 2 or 3. Definitely want the highest grade luxeon possible. Perhaps also a spare battery holder.


----------



## FalconFX (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Doug should grab some "R" ranks...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


----------



## Tomas (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Hmmmmmm ... I just had a flash of what _might_ be an idea that would appeal to some (I know it appeals to me): The "Top-of-the-line" FireFly comes preassembled and tested (with a 270-330mA 'Q' BB) head, and two battery holders - the second one with a screw-in plug (delrin?) so it can be used as a spare battery carrier ... 

Hey, it's just a 3AM idea, gimme a break! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif


----------



## signals (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*brightnorm said:*
The NERDLITE


[/ QUOTE ]

That's the best one yet! I'd buy a Nerdlite. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

-Kevin


----------



## kakster (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

how much extra would it cost to get one done in titanium? is it even feasible?
whatever, im sure as hell interested in getting one anyways.


----------



## DSpeck (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Keep those ideas coming, folks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Here's a nice note - the module will indeed come with a Q3 Luxeon, thanks to Wayne. Thus, they'll be nice and bright, even if you have to keep the module turned down a bit to lower the heat. OTOH, since this will likely be a momentary-use light, you may feel you don't need to do that... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Kakster, the light will not be available in Ti, sorry. Bad for heat management.

Tomas, that's a good idea. Maybe I'll offer a "Premium kit", including the second battery holder with Delrin screw-in plug as a spare carrier. Hmm.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Brightnorm, I'm not sure the world is ready for a Nerdlight... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Dave Wright (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

DSpeck,

Tell us more about how the light's details will change to incorporate the MadMax module. I would rather not see a spring-less design like the Arc LS twisties. There were reports of crushed batteries with the twisties. I've experienced them with my Arc AAA. Maybe the MadMax could be damaged too - ruining the light. I know that I wouldn't do this /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif, but could see handing it to someone who turns it the wrong way to shut it off, then turns it REALLY hard.

The Minimag arrangement works really well with dat2zip's modules. Cranking the bezel down pushes the module out of contact with the body rim. A spring in the tail prevents overcompression of either battery or module. The spring's coil layout is nesting, which allow it to fully compress without being shortened permanently.

You're probably set for CAD software to lay this all out. If not, I'd be glad to help.

Thanks again for taking on the project!


----------



## paulr (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I wonder if you'll consider an optional CR2 battery holder. Result wouldn't be as small as Larry's CR2 light, but it would still make a difference, and the slightly thinner cell might allow a corner-type lanyard hole (like Arc LS twisty tailcap) instead of the protruding tab at the end. Or if it doesn't defeat the purpose of the small light, a 1AA holder would allow running on a NiMH cell for very low operating costs.


----------



## Dave Wright (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I second Paul's 1xAA suggestion. Dat2zip's MadMax runs quite well on 1xAA. I haven't done runtime tests yet, but guesstimate that mine runs for about 1 hour at a fairly steady output around that contemplated for this light (270 - 330 mA). It's a dog on alkaline, but runs well on either lithium or NiMH AA. The only downside to the light is its clunky head. The Firefly would be much shorter and a nice clean cylindrical shape.

I vote for a 1xAA holder as FireFly option #1. FWIW, I like the name FireFly, despite it not being an original name.

Edit: I'm not sure why Arc discontinued the 1xAA battery holder for the LS, but suspect it has more to do with their execution than the concept. Maybe Arc's circuit wasn't up to boosting all the way from 1 volt. The MadMax, however, is up to the task as long as you feed it a high drain rate battery. Let's not let Arc's failure discourage this effort. I consider a bright 1xAA light w/ 1 hour burn time to be one of the "Holy Grails" of flashlight design. Capable, compact, and economical.


----------



## paulr (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Running a lithium in the 1aa holder is kind of silly. The L91 lithium costs almost 2x as much as an SF 123 (or more than 2x a Lisun 123), is much bigger, and would have about the same runtime. The 1AA holder would mainly be for NiMH. I'd hoped it could be used with alkaline in a pinch but I guess the current drain is just too high. 

Hmm, I guess there's the Pila 50mm lithium ion cell, same length as an AA and same thickness as a 123. The same holder could take either the Pila or an AA with a sleeve. I wonder if the Pila voltage would be a little too high at 3.6V.


----------



## Dave Wright (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Paulr, you are correct about the 1xAA lithium economy. I ran one in mine to see how it compared with NiMH and alkaline. The NiMH appears comparably bright, so I see no reason to use lithium in the 1xAA MadMax (MadMaxine?). It might yield a little more runtime...not worth the extra $.


----------



## paulr (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Note the edit about the Pila cell. I think that makes the 1AA holder more interesting, since the 123 thickness is already "available".


----------



## Dave Wright (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Good approach, paulr. I would rather not see the 1xAA tube more narrow than the lighthead anyway. I think that the MadMax module would work on 3.6v. It would start off as a direct drive and move into boost mode as the voltage drops...not that it would drop much.


----------



## DSpeck (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I am listening and takiing in all these suggestions, and I have looked at some of the questions. For the first offering of the Firefly (or whatever we decide on), it will be very similar to Larry's original design, but it will be a little shorter due to the different module. The operation will be twist-on, just the same as the original, and much like the Arc-AAA and Arc-LS operate.

The optional battery holders are good ideas, and I'll consider them for future offerings and options. Since the CR2 idea seems popular, I can see about them for the first option. An AA holder would increase the size of the light, to about the size of a CMG Infinity, or a bit longer due to the optics.

Dave Wright, thanks for the offer of the CAD assistance. I have AutoCad 2002, so I'm OK for that. If I changed the method of operation, I would increase the size of the light, which is going in the wrong direction for this particular design. Who knows what the future will hold? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## keithhr (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

after reading many of the posts,i'm a bit confused. This light will approximate what other light in brightness? Will it be about the same as the lsh-p , the McLux, or what?


----------



## obeck (May 22, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*keithhr said:*
after reading many of the posts,i'm a bit confused. This light will approximate what other light in brightness? Will it be about the same as the lsh-p , the McLux, or what? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh... Yes? Its a 1 watt luxeon. A luxeon... driven at the same voltage/current and from the same color bin... will produce nearly
the same light output. It really doesnt matter whether that Lux is in the mclux or a minimag/BB400/Q3L or an Arc LS or a SF KL1. 

If you want to put an overdriven madmax+ in there, then it will be as bright as the brightest luxeon. If you want to put a 
Q3L binned luxeon in there, it will be as white as an LSx-P. Its brightness/whiteness/etc will be within the range of available 
luxeons and given sandwich that you want to put in there. The particular beam pattern will be different, and it will be interesting 
to see what the turned down optics will produce.


----------



## Mr. Blue (May 22, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

so are we considered pre ordered on this post?


----------



## StanTeate (May 22, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

So how does one go about pre-ordering one of these "Firefly's", in blue? Will posting a reply here do or does one go to a website?


----------



## Dave Wright (May 22, 2003)

*Re: Official*

DSpeck,

Consider me preordered anyway - despite remarks I make regarding the design. Battery crushing isn't a chronic problem since the batteries are disposable anyway. Module crushing isn't a major risk on account of the epoxy potting. That should keep pressure off the electronics and hold everything in position.

This is the first limited production run light for me. How will I know when and where to send payment? Do I need to keep a daily watch on this thread? Will you send an e-mail to everyone, like me, who committed to buy one?

Many Thanks.


----------



## StanTeate (May 22, 2003)

*Re: Official*

DSpeck,
Would like to preorder 2 at least. Where & when payment method?


----------



## Icebreak (May 22, 2003)

*Re: Official*

StanTeate -

Welcome to CandlePowerForums.

Wow, first post and you are persuing a custom light.

I'm sure DSpeck will warn us ahead of time but I'll let him speak to your question.

Have fun.


----------



## DSpeck (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I just wanted to post a quick note to say I'll be away this weekend (starting in 5 minutes), returning Sunday. I am not ignoring anyone, I just won't have access until Sunday.

Re: pre-orders - I have not yet set the price for this, so I can't say exactly how much to pre-pay. I indicated the target price earlier in the thread, but it's not set in stone yet. Since I'm not sure how much to pre-pay, I can't accept pre-orders. When I am ready to accept them, I will be sure to post lots here on the Mods forum. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Please keep an eye on this thread, and I'll start another thread to announce the pre-orders for the Firefly when it's ready to go. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## Raindrop (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Official*

New member but long time off and on "lurker". My illumination toy affliction goes back a lot farther than I would like to admit ( Maglights first introduced). I have a number of regular production lights and I am very interested in acquiring at least 1 of the "Firefly" or whatever you name them lights.


----------



## Carpe Diem (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I`m in the pool.

Boy...another flashlight to buy.
This is really great!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I now have tvodrd's creation in my hand...it is an outstanding light. If the Firefly turns out half as good, buy it. If it is as good, get ready to throw away your ARC-LS as your EDC. Dspeck, did you get to handle one of tvodrd's creations??? tvodrd's light just drips with quality, if you can make a light that is as good in form and function, you will have a major winner on your hands. Put me down for two of em.


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

oh...and about the diameter of the light. I read somewhere about pealing labels on the batteries. This is not needed, I have tried Surefire and Duracell 123's in it and they fit just fine. Keep the diameter the same.


----------



## Tomas (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

[ QUOTE ]
*JonSidneyB said:*
I now have tvodrd's creation in my hand...it is an outstanding light. If the Firefly turns out half as good, buy it. If it is as good, get ready to throw away your ARC-LS as your EDC.

[/ QUOTE ] 

I'm glad Larry's creation is as good as it seemed when we first glimpsed pictures of it. Purely from an engineer's standpoint, the design appeared to be exceedingly well thought out and executed. I hope you get a lot of real enjoyment from it, Jon! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

(I'm also hoping the Firefly will be a close match to the intrinsic elegance of the original. This early in the process it is difficult to tell from just word pictures. When the Firefly gets to the point where we can see pictures (or at least design drawings) of it, and have a complete description it will be easier to evaluate. Good luck, Doug!)


----------



## John N (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I'm in for at least one, maybe more.

Color - don't care that much, dark blue fine, natural fine, black fine. Prefer harder finish over specific color. Prefer not two tone tho.

Battery holders - would be interested in CR2 and AA (if the AA is brighter than, say, an Infinity Ultra). 

It would be nice if someone could do some predictions based on the use of the madmax for what runtime and brightness would be with 123A, CR2 and AA cells.

Thanks,

-john


----------



## ZENGHOST (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I'm in if I can handle the final price.


----------



## _Zion_ (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

i'm in to...


----------



## Tomas (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

[ QUOTE ]
It would be nice if someone could do some predictions based on the use of the madmax for what runtime and brightness would be with 123A, CR2 and AA cells. 

[/ QUOTE ]

It would depend a lot on the "default" setting of the MadMax. (I don't believe the MadMax is a "constant current" regulated design, there might not be an easy way to even state what that "setting" is. With a BB one can say that the output is, for example, 330mA. With a MM, how would one define the output?)

Anyway, once the default MM setting is defined, one can use that to determine default battery life to some arbitrary lesser intensity point. Once THAT is determined, one can figure that it would be less if the output were cranked up from the default, and more if cranked down.

So, Doug, any idea, where the "default" will be for this design, or are we too early? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## paulr (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

As I understand it, the reason some of Larry's units needed peeled batteries is that they didn't have the screw contact at the negative terminal, so they needed the exposed battery case to make contact with the flashlight case. It wasn't an issue of the tube being too narrow.


----------



## shiftd (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I am in depending for the final price.

Anyone can give me some thoguht on the possibilities of powering a 5W in there fueled by a BB700? i don't have one (BB700) so i cannot know the heat would be like.

thanks


----------



## Kilowatt (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Count me in pending final price.


----------



## PieThatCorner (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I'm away for a day or two and lo and behold, tvodrd's creation is up and running thanks to DSpeck and Larry.

From retirement gift to CPF offering... wow, definitely count me in for a minimum of two. I may have missed the McLux opportunity, but I'm _not_ going to miss this one! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-Jim

P.S. - My vote is for a natural or OD HA color.


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I kind of like natural or black myself....but will take what I can get...


----------



## robstarr-lite (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Count me in for 1, prefer natural...and maybe 2 
depending on the price!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Sigman (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

When you're ready for preorders, we'll be ready!


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I wonder if this thing will come apart like the original. If it will, I wonder if one could be ordered unfinished. I have several things I would like anodized. maybe I can get my own done.


----------



## Tree (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*Sigman said:*
When you're ready for preorders, we'll be ready! 

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif Anxiously waiting.


----------



## John Frederick (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I wonder if one of you more knowledgeable gents could give us a brief synopsis of the BB & MM sandwiches. I'm kind of curious about what's going to power this thing. I'd read the thread about them but it's 8,000 pages long and I don't have the day & 1/2 it would take on dial-up. I'm especially curious about the adjustment feature of the MM. Thanks...


----------



## John Frederick (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I found a pretty good comparison of the two in this thread:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=246442&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1


----------



## paulr (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

What's going to power the Firefly? A single 123 lithium cell.

The MM has a trimpot that lets you set the output level by taking the light apart and tweaking the module with a tiny screwdriver. It's not like you can adjust the brightness while you're using the light. It's something you'd set when you first assemble the sandwich (if you build your own), and then you'd generally leave it alone after that.


----------



## John Frederick (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Yes, one 123. Maybe if the light is successful enough we can get Doug to make up some 2AA tubes, ala ARC.


----------



## paulr (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I don't understand why you'd want a 2AA Firefly when you can already get a 2AA Arc, or a 2AA Minimag with a BB/MM. A 1AA Firefly would be of a lot more interest, IMO.


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I think the reason why a 2AA Firefly would be of interest to some is thickness. It often is not the length that is the carrying problem but the thickness...


----------



## John Frederick (May 25, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I prefer the ergonomics of a 2AA light. For EDC I want a small 123 light, but for use around the house and such I prefer the larger light. I also like the versatility the AAs add to a light. You can get AA's anywhere, anytime cheaply; not always the case with Lithiums.


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 26, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

John>for around the house. Why not D cells for lower price per amp or rechargables.


----------



## pjenkins00 (May 26, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

one question, will you be able to use stripped 123 like those that you get from 223s? that seems like an advantage. i'd probably be interested in either a 2xaa or 1xaa tubes but i feel like the cr2 should be a separate design so it will be as small as possible. then again there may not be someone motivated to make it.

Pete


----------



## DSpeck (May 26, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I'm back!

Here are a few answers to questions asked this weekend:

Yes, this light will come apart similarly to the original.

The auxillary battery tubes may be available in the future, but for the initial offering, will be the 123 holder, so as to reduce the production costs, and let me actually get the darn thing OUT there... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The runtime will have to be determined empirically, with tests. Runtime will increase when the output is turned down, naturally.

Using stripped 223s - If they don't have a metal case, then it should pose no problem. I haven't seen any to check for myself.

Update: I will be meeting with the CNC guy to discuss various projects tomorrow, so I might be able to post a little more info then.


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 27, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

when do you think ordering will begin???


----------



## StoneDog (May 27, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Let me know if this is ever built with an internal/integral reflector, is sized down for a CR2 and is regulated to 200 mA.


----------



## obeck (May 27, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*paulr said:*
I don't understand why you'd want a 2AA Firefly when you can already get a 2AA Arc, or a 2AA Minimag with a BB/MM. A 1AA Firefly would be of a lot more interest, IMO. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree. There are already 2AA tails for a firefly... its called a Mini Maglite. The sandwich should be swappable between them!

If you already have a 2AA BB400 minimag and a 2AA Arc LS, you know that sticking the 2AA tail on an Arc LS turns it into...well... a MiniMag looking/feeling light. To the casual observer, they look like nearly the same light, especially if you put a kroll on the minimag!

Quality considerations aside, A BB400/Q3L with kroll switch on a MiniMag gives about 95% of the light/look/feel of an Arc LSx-P with a 2AA tail at about $120 lower price. If the head (Bezel?) of the firefly is wide enough to hold a 123, then an 2AA tail would have to be as wide as the head or it would turn the Firefly into a minimag looking/feeling light as well. 

Clearly, the reason you get a small light like this (or like the Arc LS) is because it is small. If your hope is to use it with 2AAs, then buy the BB400/MM+ Q3L sandwich separately. Swap the sandwich between your firefly and a MiniMag of your choice. If you want to run 2AA, put it in the minimag. If you want to run CR123A, put it in the firefly. 

This has been my plan all along, and as soon as it is cast-in-stone that the sandwich will be swappable, then I'm going to order one of the MM+Q3L sandwichs for an old Minimag that I have now and swap it into the firefly when it becomes available.


----------



## John Frederick (May 27, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

O.K., how about an attachment to run it on a 6V lantern battery /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


----------



## DSpeck (May 27, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

John Frederick, the 6V would be too high a voltage. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

obeck, your points are very good. My only difference would be that a 2AA tail would look more like a headless (not regular) Minimag, due to the head being the same diameter as the body. It is definitely, cast-in-stone-certain, that the sandwich will be swappable. The sandwiches will be Madmax+Q3x bin Luxeons.

Update for today: It looks like the finish is going to have to be black or natural HA3. I had a look at the blue they can make, and it's not very good, having the brownish cast from the natural HA. If better colouration is important, we'd have to go with standard anodize, and that just isn't as durable. At some point, when it becomes necessary to decide, I'll look back through this thread to see which colour is more popular.

It's looking like the price will end up around $105 US, I think. I should be able to open up ordering in about the middle of June. The next major step is to find out how much the optics will cost to cut down. I have a lead on a plastics machining place, so I'll be checking that out soon.

Things are progressing, folks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Tomas (May 27, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Just a quick question, Doug, have you considered the possibility of casting the optics from a turned down "perfect" sample?


----------



## DSpeck (May 27, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I haven't got the resources to do a good job of it. I can talk to the plastics shop about it, though. The trouble is often that in casting into rubber moulds (which I would have to do for this), there are a lot of trapped bubbles, which would spoil the beam. I don't have a vacuum system to remove the bubbles. Besides, I've not done this kind of casting before, and I'd rather not experiment on 200 of these... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## tvodrd (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

200! OMG! Doug, with the right set-up (Spring-loaded, ultra low friction, PTFE-lined live center, with the optic bearing against a friction "spud" in the headstock) the machining and repolishing of the optics (face, from the chucking) should require less than 5 minutes each! It is a manual operation (stop/unload/load), but should only add abt $5ea or less in those quantities. Keep-up the good work!

Larry


----------



## Rothrandir (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

i remember someone (tonyb???) using small optics with luxeons a while ago...i don't remember what they were called, or what they were from, i just remembered that they were small and they worked well.
hopefully someone will be able to come up with a link...i looked, but couldn't find /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## ufokillerz (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*Rothrandir said:*
i remember someone (tonyb???) using small optics with luxeons a while ago...i don't remember what they were called, or what they were from, i just remembered that they were small and they worked well.
hopefully someone will be able to come up with a link...i looked, but couldn't find /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

i think he used acrylic balls? i have a micro-lux that he made it thats what it uses


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I am so pleased with the tvodrd creation that I can't begin to express it...I love the Arc-123 powered lights, but this is soo much better. I think it is perfect. I think the light output is perfect for its size. I wouldn't want it much bright so as to not compromise battery life. 

I like this light so much, that I would love to see a 1.5 volt AA version of it created. The Arc-AAA covers that niche well enough that it does not need a replacement. I would also not mind seeing eventually a twin AA version of this, it would be a nice knurled rod. Another version that would be nice would be a Twin 123 6 volt version with a tight bezel down belt clip bezel down with momentary switch. 

As small as these lights would be, you have the perfect EDC package.

The single 123 version on you keychain that puts out a medium amount of light, comperable to the ARC-LS. Switch between the Arc-AAA and Single AA version of this light for low light requirements that you can use up loose batteries with. And the high outbut 5watt version on the belt taking up alomost not room on the belt. It would be hard to notice snuggled up next to your cell phone. With a momentary switch, it would be your tactical light to replace you Surefire tactical lights and for use when you need something brighter. 

This would be the perfect on your person carry package. Of course you want lights in your car and home to use to keep you from overusing your on person light set.


----------



## Rothrandir (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

ufo....i'm not talking about acrylic balls...maybe it wasn't tonyb i was thinking of /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

these were slightly different...


----------



## shiftd (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Rothrandir, did you means the lens that were created from epoxy? I think that lens is not all that efficient. Kind of yellowish, it will make the light.


----------



## Rothrandir (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

nope...that wasn't it either...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## shiftd (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Hmmm, What is it then. Could you be more specific like what light the lens was applied to?


----------



## brightnorm (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

My best EDC configuration remains ARC LS 2nd/2xAA Lithium. It's about as bright as my LSH-P, has a broader beam and gives me a good 6 hours of light, at which point it's still at least as bright as a fresh Reactor or Inretech. My MM's and BB's are great but give a much shorter burn.

If The Firefly will be produced in an AA configuration with at least a good 5-6 hours burn I will buy it. Otherwise, though still tempted by its beauty I'll probably be able to resist the buy impulse.

Re compact carry: My ARC actually fits into a MAG 2xAAA pouch. It's a tight fit but is remarkably compact, much slimmer than an E2E/KL1. With dark pants it's barely noticeable. If the Firefly can match its performance I'll grab it.

Brightnorm


----------



## [email protected] (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*shiftd said:*
Hmmm, What is it then. Could you be more specific like what light the lens was applied to? 

[/ QUOTE ]

From this thread:
[ QUOTE ]
*[email protected] said:*
*Update*
I just got my optics from tonyb. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Efcharisto! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif 

First impression: *very* nice work!

The kit consists of one lens, with an 8 mm diameter, and an aluminum spacer for the low dome emitter, and a diameter of 7.9 mm.

The spacer is polished on the inside for optimal refraction. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif 

The beam seems to be wider than with the NX05 optics. 

For the High Dome Luxeons, a larger spacer is needed... depending of the distance of the optics towards the Luxeon, the beam varied between unfocused, a clear "grill" grid, and a relative smooth square beam

It's sunny here at the moment, so, I can't give very accurate findings... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif 
I hope to try it out tonight though... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The lens looks like a larger version of the top of a 5mm LED.

Hope this helps,


----------



## shiftd (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Certainly, Bart


----------



## Jason Burns (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*DSpeck said:*
It's looking like the price will end up around $105 US, I think. I should be able to open up ordering in about the middle of June.
Things are progressing, folks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the sound of ALL of the above!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## Rothrandir (May 28, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

thanks bart /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
i knew you had some, so i hoped you would come along with /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Dspeck>I haven't read the whole thread so this my be redundant.

I agree that the firefly should be kept minamalist. and not leave the original design by too much, but any improvements should be explored that do not take away from its original purpose, "the ultimate 123 keychain light". 

Like the original, I think the firefly will be a keeper. With that in mind. I was wondering this will be a parts replaceable light. Also, LED's are getting bettet, will this design allow for upgrading the LED as the LED's get better and better. 

I like that this will be either black or natural. Black goes with everything, natural has that look that we have become accustomed to in quality products from Arc and Surefire.


----------



## paulr (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I don't think these guys really had it together enough to make an actual light, but they had some nice design ideas. I like the idea of lights that actually try to look good.


----------



## Dave Wright (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

The FireFly will be the ultimate upgradeable light since it runs on sandwiches. In 2006, when 50 lumen 1 watt 300 mA LS emitters hit the streets, you will be able to buy a new sandwich from Wayne and drop it in. My biggest concern is availablity of FireFly parts. If you buy several to use for spare parts then a $30 manufactured version will for sure come out before you need the parts. If you only buy 1 then it will get damaged in short order, replacement parts won't be available, and an equivalent won't come to market. Murphy at work!


----------



## Darell (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Whew! Finally caught up. Can't wait to see the production unit of this thing. I haven't purchased anything from Doug in too long. May just have to get me one of these. I think this little bugger would look best in Natural HA, personally. 

Has a small flood refector been considered in place of the turned-down optic? My worry is that too many photons will be trapped if you grind the edges off the NX05. For the folks how have one - how happy are you with the modified optic?


----------



## StoneDog (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I'm with you Darell, but some folks have been chastised for suggesting changes to the orginal design. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Either way this should be a kickin' little light.

Jon


----------



## Darell (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*StoneDog said:*
I'm with you Darell, but some folks have been chastised for suggesting changes to the orginal design. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Fortunately I'm quite comfortable with my heresy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Tomas (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*Dave Wright said:* The FireFly will be the ultimate upgradeable light since it runs on sandwiches. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey! I run on sandwiches, too! (I'm eating one now.)

Does that mean *I'm* upgradable?!?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## lemlux (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Tomas:

You may be exchangeable rather than upgradeable. If you're 60 maybe your wife can trade you in for a pair of 30 year olds.


----------



## Tomas (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Darell, StoneDog, I'm one of the folks who has been fairly vocal about wanting to keep the design as close to the original as is reasonable, at least for the first run. 

I've done that for many reasons, among them:

1) We were all taken by the completness and "rightness" of the original. Each tiny detail was openly there for a specific reason and each was done in a way that did not detract from other criteria. 

Small changes that seem to have no other effects, do. 

2) For example changing to a sandwich reduces the heat transfer from the LED to the copper sink. Why? Change from direct LED to heatsink connection to indirect connection via two interfaces and an intermediate thin PCB trace. 

3) In the original design, the tension of the optic on the LED increased the mechanical connection of the LED to the heatsink, in the sandwich design it may not (haven't seen drawing/picture yet). 

4) In the original, most mechanical failure modes were overdesigned and unlikely, in many of the suggestions the design would have been more delicate with the margin reduced in almost all of the failure modes. 

Even those design changes that produce very desired results, such as the interchangability of the LED and electronics, reduce the mechanical overdesign (think back to the original with it's machined-brass-block positive contact potted into the head with the electronics and compare to either a PCB trace or solder blob). 

5) While the changes to the LL123 (LarryLight123) to make it the FireFly bring about a more manufacturable and more "versatile" design, each change is a trade-off. For each positive effect one MUST also look at the potential negatives and determine if they are overwhelmed by the "good" of the change or not. 

6) I don't want some of the subtle engineering and design of the original "lost" in the first run. Little things like the offset negative contact ... 

Changes in design are not made in a vacuum, and they affect things that are not at first obvious. 

The LL123 was probably more mechanically reliable than an Arc AAA and about as simple (to the user). The FireFly looks the same, and meets more _perceived_ needs, but in doing so lost a small bit of the utter simplicity of the original design even though it should be easier to assemble.

As to the many changes suggested for a variety of battery-packs, optics, reflectors, electronics, etcetera, etcetera: If one added them all together it would no longer even resemble the original LL123 in ANY dimension or feature. Different batterys, different optics/reflectors, different size, different beam pattern, different operating modes, different electronics. 

OMG! It's turned into a SureFire! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif 

I just wouldn't want to be walking in expecting to buy a rugged little Jeep Wrangler designed to do one job exceptionally well and ending up with a loaded Lincoln Navigator - at least not in the first run. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

*Disclaimer: * Please keep in mind that I am neither a "modder" nor a "collector" and have no real input or control. What y'all see here when I ramble on in CPF is it. Every single other voice here has just as much chance of being heard and having a real effect. I'm sure there are many who would disagree with my thoughts on the original LL123 and the changes to it to make it a FireFly. I'm sure there are at least a few who *do* want a Lincoln Navigator of a light in their pocket. They may want to look at the Arc LS4. I just want something as close to the LL123 as possible in *my* pocket.

Take care,


----------



## Darell (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*lemlux said:*
If you're 60 maybe your wife can trade you in for a pair of 30 year olds. 

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you get more bang-for-your-buck with three 20-year-olds. But now we're getting a wee bit off the topic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## obeck (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*Tomas said:*

I've done that for many reasons, among them:

1) We were all taken by the completness and "rightness" of the original. Each tiny detail was openly there for a specific reason and each was done in a way that did not detract from other criteria. 

Small changes that seem to have no other effects, do. 

2) For example changing to a sandwich reduces the heat transfer from the LED to the copper sink. Why? Change from direct LED to heatsink connection to indirect connection via two interfaces and an intermediate thin PCB trace. 

3) In the original design, the tension of the optic on the LED increased the mechanical connection of the LED to the heatsink, in the sandwich design it may not (haven't seen drawing/picture yet). 

4) In the original, most mechanical failure modes were overdesigned and unlikely, in many of the suggestions the design would have been more delicate with the margin reduced in almost all of the failure modes. 

Even those design changes that produce very desired results, such as the interchangability of the LED and electronics, reduce the mechanical overdesign (think back to the original with it's machined-brass-block positive contact potted into the head with the electronics and compare to either a PCB trace or solder blob). 

5) While the changes to the LL123 (LarryLight123) to make it the FireFly bring about a more manufacturable and more "versatile" design, each change is a trade-off. For each positive effect one MUST also look at the potential negatives and determine if they are overwhelmed by the "good" of the change or not. 


[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly, the specific reason for "Each tiny detail was openly there for a specific reason" that led the LL123 to the choice of Luxeon and micropuck was the fact that Larry already had them! 

In his own words: 

"For the driver electronics, I chose the LEDynamics MicroPuck, primarily, because I had several and the long run time they offer on a 123. (Wayne/dat2zip's boards are a much better formfactor, and would reduce the O.A.L. by about .1" but I had several pucks)"

So, it was serendipitous reasons and not some carefully thought out master plan that led to the choice. It doesnt make it wrong, or any less genious, but its not as perfectly thought out as you let on. The sandwich design has proven itself in a bazillion maglites. The electronics design has proven itself in both the sandwichs and the Arcs. I think it is a trade off that will increase the simplicity and manufacturability of the light without great risk of negative consequences.


----------



## [email protected] (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*Darell said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*lemlux said:*
If you're 60 maybe your wife can trade you in for a pair of 30 year olds. 

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you get more bang-for-your-buck with three 20-year-olds. But now we're getting a wee bit off the topic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]


----------



## Darell (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Hi Tom -

All good, valid points that I totally understand. Be fun to point out some stuff in here though just because I'm feeling spunky.

[ QUOTE ]
each was done in a way that did not detract from other criteria.

[/ QUOTE ]
This would depend what the criteria was, I guess. Turning the optic down (for overall size considerations) is gonna mess with the light's ouput no matter how you slice it. To me, that is a detraction from an important criteria.

[ QUOTE ]
2) For example changing to a sandwich reduces the heat transfer from the LED to the copper sink.

[/ QUOTE ]
Surely. Interestingly enough, my suggested improvement increases the heat-sinking area.

[ QUOTE ]
In the original, most mechanical failure modes were overdesigned and unlikely, in many of the suggestions the design would have been more delicate with the margin reduced in almost all of the failure modes. 

[/ QUOTE ]
My suggestion was to replace a delicate plastic part with a metal part, adding to the robustness.

[ QUOTE ]
Even those design changes that produce very desired results, such as the interchangability of the LED and electronics, reduce the mechanical overdesign 

[/ QUOTE ]
Not my suggested change.

[ QUOTE ]
For each positive effect one MUST also look at the potential negatives and determine if they are overwhelmed by the "good" of the change or not. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Yup. That's why I was asking about the output of the turned-down optic. A metal refector should provide a more durable light with better heat-sinking, a more even beam, and may very well let more photons out the front. Could make the light shorter as well. IF what I'm guessing about the benefits of a metal reflector are true, then the only downside I see is that it wouldn't be "true" to the original design, and it would be another part to make.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want some of the subtle engineering and design of the original "lost" in the first run. Little things like the offset negative contact ... 

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. There isn't much subtle about removing material from an optic that needs all of its material to function properly.

[ QUOTE ]

Changes in design are not made in a vacuum, and they affect things that are not at first obvious. 

[/ QUOTE ]
I hope you'll trust me when I say that I realize this. The cool thing is that a design change can take advantage of this to improve many other aspects that are seemingly unrelated the the original change (like better heat-sinking, more robust device, shorter, etc - from a change of optic).

[ QUOTE ]
I just wouldn't want to be walking in expecting to buy a rugged little Jeep Wrangler designed to do one job exceptionally well and ending up with a loaded Lincoln Navigator - at least not in the first run. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]
My suggestion should make you even happier then. Think original Military Jeep with bias tires and no roof. I am the original over-designer. I can use my towel bars as a ladder in the bathroom. My dog's doggie door is lined with brick. The trialer I just built can haul more than twice what my vehicles can pull.

The way I live my life is: If it ain't broke, then I haven't tried hard enough to make it better.

I'll say it again: You've made all good points, and I understand them. I just don't agree that remaining "pure" to an original idea is better than taking a great idea and making it better. In my book, EVERYTHING can be improved. But then I'm a perfectionist and it drives me nuts (not to mention everybody around me).


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

the cut down optics are doing a fine job. I have 8 Arcs-running on 123's. 6 of them are white, I tried new batteries and all of the Arcs and in the CPF Benefit light. The Benefit light beat 4 or them for and lost to 2 of them. And the beams that beat it were not by much. It was my two newest ARC's that beat it but I would not have noticed if it was not a side by side comparison. Like I said, it was not by much. But the size and form factor of this light makes it well worth it. Another thing about this light is that it is easily turned on and off with one hand. Something I can't do with the ARC-LS family of lights.


----------



## Darell (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Thanks JSB. I need a bit more though. What does "beat it" mean? (Bart, stay out of this).

Are you comparing Throw? Width? Lux? Color? Something has to give when the edges of the optic aren't redirecting the light that gets over there. Otherwise, let's cut these things down and shove them in a Solitare!


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

the Throw seems to be close to the same to me, the beam seems wider at the same time as odd as that sounds. Here is what I think is happening. Some of the light what was going to be passing through the edges of the full sized lens are contacting the body and reflecting off of the lens at an angle. 

The center of the beam seem just as bright but the edges of the spill light are dimmer and larger.

That may not be a good explantation of what is happeing but this is what I think. The chamer are of the light is smaller than let say and ARC-LS. But something has to happen to the light, it must be obsorbed, or reflected, or pass directly through the lens. I do not think a whole lot of that light is getting obsorbed but reflected instead.


----------



## [email protected] (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*Darell said:*
(Bart, stay out of this).

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I think tvodrd did some beam shots of one of em.


----------



## tvodrd (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Oh boy..... 

The optics were turned to ~.655"dia. This is ~.010" less than the max dia of the rear "cone" portion. The flange on the stock optic is there for mechanical (mounting) reasons, not optical, and does result in some stray photons. The only honest comparison would be with Jon's light with the a stock optic against the modded one. Also gotta add that the bezel aperature is only .575" and that _should IMO_ result in reduced sidespill brightness. All in all, it doesn't seem to me to suffer much in the optics department. I disagree with Tomas, in that I feel the thermal path for Wayne's modules is quite _sufficient_ for the task it is required to perform- clean (lip) MMags heat-up quickly with a half amp+ LS current!

Bottom line is I think the "firefly" is going to be a very nice light. 
Edit: Provided he makes it out of 7075T6 and TeCu. I will also be looking forward to the first numnuts who puts a full-bore MadMax+ in one, turns it on, sets it down, and comes back later to pick it up, and brags about blistering his fingers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif . 

Larry


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I will leave my light on for 15 minutes and see how warm it gets. I will also leave Arc #960 for the same time. 

Oh, and tvodrd is right, I remembered wrong, there is less spill light but there is a real faint corona of light that is thin but wide, almost goes unnoticed.


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

it is still running, it feels warm but not hot by any means.
The Arc is a little warm to but just a bit less warm.


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Bart> your more than welcome to join in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I can't believe anyone said stay out of this.


----------



## DSpeck (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Larry, the Firefly will be made out of 6061T6 and standard free-machining (I think) copper. Why would you want to use TeCu (not even sure what the Te is!)? Does it make a difference?

And yeah, that's why I'm using the Madmax - so you can turn the output down once you've burned your fingers... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BTW, did you have a flange left on the optics once they were turned down? I plan to have a tiny flange, so as to locate the part correctly.


----------



## Tomas (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I really have no further comments on design details - I said what I was going to. I was simply describing why I was arguing against 20 concurrent changes in the basic design ...

Just to correct possible misinterpretations of my earlier comments:

Yes, Larry did start with a "given" of the Luxeon and the Micropuck - those were the basis of his design because he had them and was familiar with them, I understand. 

Beyond that, however, was his engineering of a device to use them efficiently. That design was well thought out, and what I was referring to.

Every design starts from some givens. 

And one question for Darell:

Is the efficiency and pattern of a reflecter with the diameter and depth limitations of the FireFly, and the physical size of the illumination source (Luxeon) truely better than the turned down (and shortened) optics? I don't know, and that can only be shown empirically IMHO. 

And just for interest:

The 1 1/2 inch diameter brushed stainless steel towel bars in my bathroom meet ADA standards for handrails and are rated to support over 350 pounds each ... 

I overengineer as a matter of course, too ...


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I have not looked at this whole thread...I didn't realize there would be 20 changes...just a few. Hmmmmm. Well, we will see how it turns out.


----------



## tvodrd (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

DSpeck,
7075T6 is stronger and easier machining than 61. Barring some true exotics, it is the alloy of choice for a thin wall flashlight like this. You aint even gonna crush it by sitting on it with a pocket full of keys! Pure copper alloys aren't remotely free machining. CDA alloy 145 "Telurium copper" is free machining. (Blew my mind the first time I tried it- cuts like 360 brass!) You should also consider getting it .0002" flash electroless Nickel- plated for looks and tarnish resistance. Spread over 200pc, it isn't going to impact piece cost much. IMO, despite Nickel's relatively poor thermal conductivity, this will have no measurable effect on the thermal transfer from the modules to the body.

_Your_ design must have a small flange on the optic to positively locate it axially, so it can't bear against the LS as the lens gasket is compressed! Mine was allowed to bear against the LS, which didn't really impact thermal x-fer, as the LSs were thermal-epoxied down to the Cu. I shortened my optics by about .080"- You shouldn't bother.

Larry


----------



## DSpeck (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Thanks, Larry. I'll check out the prices of the 7075 (I know it's more expensive than 6061), but I think the 6061 will be plenty strong with .050 walls... The 145 alloy sounds pretty exotic, so I'll see if it's available locally.

I don't know about the nickel plating, though - the contrast of the copper and the black or natural HA will look pretty good, I think. There is the consideration of tarnish, that's true, but a bake-on clear lacquer might work for use on the exposed part.

Can you post a close-up pic of the mouth of the copper part where your optics go? I can't see how you made the optic .655" dia, when the minor diameter of the thread is .636"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Doesn't the optic cover the threads?

Thanks!


----------



## Darell (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*tvodrd said:*
The optics were turned to ~.655"dia. This is ~.010" less than the max dia of the rear "cone" portion. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, I missed that detail the fist time around. I'd always assumed that more was removed. If Doug needs to add a flange, a bit more will need to be removed, I guess - but still it is less cutting than I had envisioned. Thanks for the info!


----------



## tvodrd (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

DSpeck,
My optic doesn't touch the copper! Yours must at its flange. A pic would be irrelevant. The threads I used were 11/16-24 NEF. The "tap drill" bore on both the body and bezel measures .657/.660- the Fem. threads are truncated! The engagement (.014"/side) is quite sufficient. I apologise if this seems confusing. (Remember, I strongly suggested prototyping it first /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif .)

Larry


----------



## Darell (May 29, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*Tomas said:*
And one question for Darell:

Is the efficiency and pattern of a reflecter with the diameter and depth limitations of the FireFly, and the physical size of the illumination source (Luxeon) truely better than the turned down (and shortened) optics? I don't know, and that can only be shown empirically IMHO. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, this was the basis of my question as well, so I have no answer beyond the information provided by Larry and JSB. I'll say this though - I personally think that a reflector that is the same size/shape of the NXO5 (Let's call it the McFlood for arguments' sake) kicks butt on the NX05 for my purposes. The good news is that I'll be able to supply my own reflector, so for me personally, this is really no big deal.

[ QUOTE ]
The 1 1/2 inch diameter brushed stainless steel towel bars in my bathroom meet ADA standards for handrails and are rated to support over 350 pounds each ... 

I overengineer as a matter of course, too ... 

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you cut sheet rock to install blocking behind the toilet paper holder so that thing can support the weight of an adult as well? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I can't STAND loose crap in the bathroom. Do you know how many of these things are installed with plastic sheetrock anchors? Crazy. I can't tell you how many of those I've had to reinstall in my past life as a carpenter.


----------



## tvodrd (May 30, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Turning the optic to .655dia results in a front cylindrical section ~.080" long. Turning .025"/side for a .040" long shoulder to bear against the copper will reduce the optic's efficiency slightly- hopefully, not enough for anyone to notice /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif . Parabolic reflectors for a point source are easy to design (must be CNC machined) but an LS isn't a point source! I don't pretend to have an answer, and I suspect the optical pHds would probably get into _fistfights_ on the best way to go about it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif . We all use our lights differently and seek different utility. I plead guilty to brighter/smaller at the expense of run time and ouchouchouch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif - and I use mine daily. And I'm still flattered as hell with all the attention the basic "package" received /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif .

Larry


----------



## Tomas (May 30, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Darell, I doubt seriously if my toiletpaper holder would support more than maybe 100-150 pounds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif


----------



## treek13 (May 30, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Tomas and Darell,

Where in heck are you getting these rolls of toilet paper that weigh as much as an adult (or 100 to 150lbs for Tomas) and how big are your freakin' bathrooms that these fit? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Pat


----------



## Tomas (May 30, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Costco, Treek, Costco ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Icebreak (May 30, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I’m glad to see that Dspeck is considering the original as well as what it takes to bring this excellent piece to an available nature.

I think the closest rendering to the original creation is best in this case.

I know so little about flashlight technology I’m a little embarrassed to address it.

With sinking heat, all I know is that it is extremely important. I find the subject immensely interesting. If a d2z performs better in this application than a micro-puck great, I’m a huge fan of d2zs.

With optics, I find that subject to be one of the top propellants in my interest in flashlights. Some lights are designed with a certain intention of beam and should be best left to perform that way. Some light’s beam intentions can be improved upon, overall. Beam usage seems to be a user oriented preference. Maybe that is why there is such a strong effort in this area.

Most things can be improved but I would have to say that not all things can be improved upon. Some things find their zenith at the first moment they exist…yes, a rarity but a truism none the less. Other things find their best mark in a later instance.

How about music? That is an area I don’t know as much as I should. I don’t know what Debussy's "Clair de Lune" sounded like the first time it was performed. I know I like a few versions the Philadelphia philharmonic orchestra offered in the early ‘70s. I would like to have heard it the first time it was played yet, I think the renditions I remember may be improvements with heavy consideration to the original piece. I don’t know what Roy Orbison's "Unchained Melody" sounded like the first time he sung it. I know that any other singer fails my ears when they attempt it. I would like to have heard the first concert that included it.

How about art? I know very little except for I know it when I see it. I would think most of us might like Vincent Van Gogh's "The Starry Night". Improve on that? Sure. It’s quite ugly but I love it. I have a print of it. I would like to one day see the original. Or, what about Monet's "Venice"? I don’t and won’t have a print of that. When I see “Venice” it strikes an old chord of my love of each moment of life where I find myself rendered to a state of awe. I think “Venice” found its’ pinnacle when the paint was still wet. No, I don’t want to see the original but I would like to go to Venice with my GF, see the sunset and try to imagine what Monet was thinking when he was painting it. Then, give GF an innocent kiss as if it were the first kiss I’ve ever known.

Consideration to the original is important in many cases and in the case of this production of the original, poorly named, “small 123 LS” I not only see consideration for the original but respect for the intent of the original. It was produced by an excellent team of engineers as tribute to a fine, retiring lead Engineer.

I’m just happy that I may eventually be able to own a close rendition of the original light. Before I turn it on I will take a second to think about that lead Engineer and how he knows he was appreciated by his team.


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 30, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

the original is an excellent design. and very very well crafted as well. I think it will be hard to match. I think a little shorter would neither hurt nore help as it is quite small and comfortable to use. The head turns easy but firm enough to not come on by itself. The beam has a great utilitarian pattern to it. I don't think it should become a spotlight. 

I can't imagine a better EDC light than this one. 

Oh....if you have not figured it out. I have one of the originals that inspired this.


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 31, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Just bringing this back to the top of the list


----------



## John Frederick (May 31, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Is this light expected to have a throw similar to the LSH or will it be more of a flood light?


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 31, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

My suggestion might make some mad in here. But I think the price should be + $5.00 over what Dpeck can sell them for and payfor his times. I think $5.00 from each light should to go the the Creator of the original. In fact, maybe thats how we can keep him creating, by giving him a royalty one what he creates that gets produced.


----------



## tvodrd (May 31, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Jon,

Thanks, and I'm flattered, but this is DSpeck's (re /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )design. He is taking all the risks, and doing all the work! Hell, I may have to buy one since I don't have one anymore /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif . If this is the light people want, I am glad he is working to produce it!

Larry


----------



## DSpeck (May 31, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

John Frederick, the light will be using a slightly cut-down NX05 optic (very close to the original Firefly design), so the throw should be similar to the LSH, or slightly wider. The NX05 optics is what the LSH uses (and many other Luxeon lights, too).

JonSidneyB, if you want to send Larry some money, feel free to do so - I'm sure he'd enjoy it (and spend it on some cool mods! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ). He released the design for anyone to make (very cool of him, no doubt about it), so I am not too certain about the royalty thing. I am not set up to send him royalties, nor has he asked for them. If people want to send him $5.00 for each light they buy from me, they may do so and feel virtuous, though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif 

(Edit - whoops, I typed a little slowly and Larry beat me to it.)


----------



## AlexGT (Jun 1, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

How about an award to Larry for his outstanding contribution to the lighting world?, IMHO, he deserves it!, auctioning one just for the sake of CPF, Bravo!!! two thumbs up!

Remember last year`s awards? I wonder who will it go to this year

Just my $0.02

Alex


----------



## Tomas (Jun 1, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*AlexGT said:*
How about an award to Larry for his outstanding contribution to the lighting world?, IMHO, he deserves it!, auctioning one just for the sake of CPF, Bravo!!! two thumbs up!


Remember last year`s awards? I wonder who will it go to this year

Just my $0.02

Alex


[/ QUOTE ] 



Heheheheheh ...

All right everyone - remember this when it comes up for this year, eh?






 -= MICROSOFT FREE ZONE =-


----------



## paulr (Jun 1, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I love the idea of EN plating on the Firefly. It makes the McLux look incredibly classy. The Arc LS is a real nice light, very functional, but its greenish natural HA finish makes it look like military hardware built by the lowest bidder /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jun 1, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Natural does kind of lok military, but it doesn't look like made by the lowest bidder. I like the Idea of Black for this, the only reason is that I work in a suit and tie environment. Black goes with everything. Loud and flash can be ok at times, but the things that are with me all the times I like to be a little more subdued. 

I would be happy with natural or black but I think on this one I would prefer black.


----------



## paulr (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Anything military is required by law to be built by the lowest bidder. So anything designed to look military is designed to look built by the lowest bidder by definition /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. 

Anyway, I still "vote" for EN, black HA is also fine and probably more durable, some other color like red or blue would be my third choice, natural HA is fourth. It sounds like there will be enough Fireflies made, that offering them in several choices of finish can hopefully be economically feasible.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

paul>the lowest bidder part is not longer true exactly. It is the lowest bidder that meets spec. Some military Items are quite pricy


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

It was quite pricy when the military woke up the owner of the company that produces black-T and asked him to fire up his plant and do some quick production work from the government. I do know how J3 makes special purchases. Its not low bidder stuff when they want something good.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I red firefly would look gaudy in a conservative office. The black could go anywhere.


----------



## paulr (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I had a red Mag Solitaire on my keychain for years, I really doubt if anyone ever noticed. Are you really going to pull out your flashlight in a boardroom anyway? A red flashlight there doesn't seem any flashier than a red necktie either way. But yeah, black is always in.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Actually, my lights come out often at work. It is used when crawling under desks when trying to check cords, plugging in laptops, tearing down a computer.


----------



## paulr (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Ehh, I think a dark blue light would be fine in that situation. Red might not be so great.

Doug, I sure like the idea of a flood beam like the McFlood. Any chance of being able to configure a Firefly to make that kind of pattern? Not necessarily with a reflector, of course.


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

AS I said above, the choices of finish right now are black or natural HA, as the blue colour they could make was not attractive at all. I'm leaning towards the black finish, as the contrast between black and copper would look very nice.

The walls of the head are similar in shape to the optics, so they might work as a flood if you remove the collimator. The reflector would still be copper, of course, so it would colour the output, and likely absorb some of it as well. I may look into getting the inside of the head EN plated to help with the reflection, but in general, I don't think it would be all that good as a reflector anyway. That's not what it's designed for.


----------



## BentHeadTX (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif
Yes, I want one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif I do prefer 7075 alloy VS 6061 though. I would be willing to pay $20 more for 7075 although the cost difference is not that much! Knowing something with .050 walls uses the strongest aluminum alloy will make me sleep better at night. My bicycle bristles with 7075 chainrings, bars etc so go with the 7075! I hear it is easier to machine so it would lead to closer tolerances and a better operating and stronger light. I figure it would only cost a couple of bucks more. 
Engrave Firefly 7075 alloy for us metalurgy geeks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Right, BentHeadTX, I'll get right on that... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif 

I will definitely look into getting 7075, though, and see about the CDA 145 copper as well.


----------



## BentHeadTX (Jun 2, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

DSpeck,
Thanks! A 7075 body with CDA 145 copper would be a perfect host for one of those Q3 BB400's. Now, I happily wait for the final result and pre-orders to be announced. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


----------



## John Frederick (Jun 4, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

BTT /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jun 4, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Im ready for the pre-orders to be announced as well.


----------



## paulr (Jun 4, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

DSpeck, I'm looking forward to preorders, and it will definitely look fine in black.


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Well, I just have a few details to nail down, and I'm good to go. Unfortunately, one of these details is the machining on the optics. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I asked at one place, but they are not able to polish up the face of the optics once they are machined.

I will be making some calls this week, trying to find somewhere I can get this vital step done. I don't feel I can do an accurate enough job over the course of 200 of these parts. I will find someone, it's just a matter of how much it will cost me.


----------



## John Frederick (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFlyhttp://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthr*

I'd like to see a hole tapped for a 6-32 screw added to the tail so we could direct mount McGizmo's Tab Mod found here: 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=248782&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1


----------



## Rothrandir (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

we must change this title back!

you mean tapp the lanyard hole? there just isn't room for any other hole unless you add dead space to the light.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

noooo,keep minimum dementions....this is the ultimate key chain light.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

oops, bad typing


----------



## Tomas (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Ya know, the only change I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is a sapphire lens (flat watch crystal). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm surprised! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

(I just checked my previous posts and I forgot to say to sign me up for one of these, Doug. I look forward the the Firefly.)


----------



## tvodrd (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

DSpeck,

I recently made a small, ball bearing, (heavy) spring-loaded live center for turning optics. The front has a Teflon core with 60deg female cone which fits over the LS end of the optic. I use it to press the face of the optic against a faced-off aluminum bar piece slightly smaller than I plan to turn the optic. If I got "greedy" I could stop the optic. If a piece of thin rubber was bonded to the aluminum piece in the chuck, much heavier cuts would be possible. I've cut down 4 so far and it works great. Bearings for it are ~$15. Guess I'll have to take a pic and post it.

Edit: Tomas, Only rea$onable ($15) source for saphire windows I've found is Otto Fri. Smallest they list is 18mm, and Firefly will need ~16.3mm. 

Larry


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Great, Larry, want to send me the live center? My lathe takes a MT2 live center... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (just kidding) If it was only a few of them, I wouldn't mind so much, but the large quantity I will be doing is going to slow down the whole process a lot, so I'd really rather find a shop willing to do them.


----------



## tvodrd (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

DSpeck,

I was tied up all day with marketing visitors from Japan. (11 Hrs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif ) Completely forgot to bring it home /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif It basicly consists of a couple of 1/4" ID, 1/2" OD 1/4" W. shielded ball bearings, with a 1/2" long spacer between them, and a piece of 1/4" slip-fit shafting up the middle. You put the bearings in the tailstock chuck and hand tighten so the shafting still slips back and forth. You then slip a 1/4 ID thrust washer, needle thrust bearing, and another thrust washer over the end of the shaft. Next cones a fairly stiff 1/4" ID compression spring. Lastly, make a 60deg (included)female teflon piece, pressed into a metal holder, which presses onto the shaft in front of the spring. As you crank the tailstock, the teflon female cone goes over the LS end of the optic, centering it against the faced-off bar in the headstock chuck/collet. As the spring compresses, it will provide sufficient "drive" to turn the optic. I'll try and get pics (and some bearing P/Ns) monday.

Larry


----------



## John Frederick (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

After reading that post I get a mental image of Tim Allen grunting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I know that everyone wants a lanyard attachment but I would like to see a design that allows for it to stand on it's tail. 
I also vote for Black HA.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I am going to have to check in everyday on this thread...I am afraid I will miss the pre-order when it comes


----------



## Empath (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I would hope the pre-order thread would be posted in B/S/T rather than here.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Tomas (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Uh, Empath, I would hope that it would appear at both places - I don't frequent BS Tea. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif 

A notice here with a link to the pre-order thread there would be fine.


----------



## Empath (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

No problem, Tomas. A link would be on topic.


----------



## obeck (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: Firefly*

BTW, I'm with others... any idea when preorders open up? I dont want to put pressure on anyone, and would be quite satisfied if the answer were "in two months". It's just that , for example, I am going out of town for two weeks starting Saturday and really (really) dont want to miss this offering. 

I can resist the mclux, can resist the ARC AA, can even resist the CPL edition Arc AAA, but would kick myself for missing the Firefly.


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: Firefly*

Larry, I actually have one of those interchangeable-point live centers, so if I could find out what the angle is, I could turn something to fit it. I like the idea of Teflon or Delrin as the material for the center, though.

Empath, I get the message, and the main pre-order post will go into the B/S/T forum, with a link from here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think the pre-orders will open up in a couple of weeks, but the process will be open for a week and a half to two weeks, so no-one needs to miss out on it. I'm planning on doing about 200 of these, so I need to have as many pre-orders as possible.


----------



## Tomas (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: Firefly*

You'll get mine, Doug. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 




/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## AlphaTea (Jun 12, 2003)

*Re: Firefly*

BTTT. 

I really want one of these!!


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Firefly*

I talked to my CNC guy, and he's going to see if he can cut down the optics for me. If he can, that will nail down the last major detail, and we're just about ready to go. I'll know next week. Keep yer finger crossed! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## LightChucker (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

Please add me to your list of wannabee owners.

Thanks,

Chuck


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Chuck, the list is not yet open for the pre-orders, but it's looking like things will fall into place by about 2 weeks from now. I will be very sure to post when the pre-orders open up! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## FalconFX (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Get the bandwidth flexing... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## John Frederick (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Doug-how are the raw materials looking? Any luck with the 7075?


----------



## _Zion_ (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Official*

DSpeck

Hi,
this light is a real dream !
i hope you will deal international...
thank a lot,
best.


----------



## freewheelin' (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Dspeck, could you please post a pick of this light, even if it just the parts without the workings? Also, would it be posible to list the final changes/stats emiter, board, switch etc?
And
Last but not least the final price, gotta know how much to budget for it.
Thanx,
Mike


----------



## Tomas (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Official*

PayPal pump primed and standing by ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 14, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Well, I haven't been able to source the materials yet, as I've been sidetracked for the last couple of weeks. However, I will get on the phone Monday and start the search. The 7075 won't be hard to find, but the CDA 145 copper might be more difficult (if it's uncommon).

Pix are not yet available.

Currently the stats are HA3 (likely black) for the main body and bezel ring, copper for the head (for good heatsinking and nice contrast with the black), Q3x Madmax module, overall length of 2.25", not including keyring lug, .75" OD, twist on/off switch a la Arc-AAA, and a trimmed-down NX05 for the optics. The Madmax will be replaceable, but will require that you have snap-ring pliers to do the swap. The light will be sealed pretty well (O-rings at every joint), so it will be at least water-resistant, if not waterproof. I don't have any facilities other than the tub or a bucket to test for waterproofness, but I'll give it some time in there once I get a full prototype done.

I haven't decided on whether or not to have it laser-etched or not, as that will add expense to the light, which is already expensive to make. It does add a nice finished look, though, so I'll think about it.

Oh, BTW, I will be providing them with a battery, so you can use them right out of the box.

The price range is still about $105-110 US, plus shipping ($4.00 for 1-3 lights, or $5.00 for 3+ lights). I will be happy to ship these anywhere in the world that the postal system connects to, or if you don't trust the postal system, we can make other arrangements if you need. 

Doug.


----------



## _Zion_ (Jun 14, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Doug,
nice new for international .
i impatient for the pre-order...
best.


----------



## John Frederick (Jun 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Unbury thine self and arise /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Any news Doug? I'm feeling information withdrawls /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Nothing much this week, but I expect to have more news around the end of next week (re: optics).

I sourced the 7075 aluminum and the CDA 145 copper locally, and I can both get and afford to use them. The materials in this little light will be the premium stuff...It should be pretty tough, I'd say. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## John Frederick (Jun 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Doug or anyone,

Forgive me if this is a stupid question but here goes...I assume that heat will be an issue with a light this small. Is the BB circuit thermally protected? I'm just wondering if we have to worry about running it wide open and smoking the LED (and burning our fingers).


----------



## tvodrd (Jun 19, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I should probably let Doug answer, but I have *some* experience in this area /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. With a BB500 it will get no where near hot enough to "smoke" the LED. It may get hot enough if left ON unattended and then picked-up, to burn a finger. I thermocoupled a CR2 version (much smaller) and it hit about 180degF after an hour. This is well short of diode damage time, but probably finger blister city /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif .

Larry


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Official*

John, the Firefly will have the MadMax sandwich (not the BB), which has the option of turning the output down if you find it gets too hot. It won't be easy, but you can do it. The sandwich will be held in place with a snap-ring, so that will have to be removed to get the sandwich out so you can change the output. I will work on a page of instructions for the light, and will include that info.

Larry, feel free to toss in whatever comments you feel appropriate... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



On a totally different note, one thing to note is that the OD of the light will be 3/4", which is the same OD as the MiniMag. That means any accessories that fit the Minimag (holders, clips, etc) should fit the Firefly. Just a thought... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Doug S (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Official*

[ QUOTE ]
*tvodrd said:*
I should probably let Doug answer, but I have *some* experience in this area /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. With a BB500 it will get no where near hot enough to "smoke" the LED. It may get hot enough if left ON unattended and then picked-up, to burn a finger. I thermocoupled a CR2 version (much smaller) and it hit about 180degF after an hour. This is well short of diode damage time, but probably finger blister city /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif .

Larry 

[/ QUOTE ]

Larry, where was this temperture measured? Outside surface of flashlight? I presume that ambient temp was in typical household range of 20-25C?


----------



## tvodrd (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Doug,

Check the "Small CR2 LS... post- it has pics. (Short of time or would give link.) Also I *think* the MiniMag is less than 3/4" dia. (I don't have one here to measure.) The CMG AA light pocket clips do fit.

Larry


----------



## flashlightlens (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Official*

MiniMag body diameter is about .71" - bezel diameter is 1"


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Official*

One more update from this week: the Firefly will have a B270 lens (from flashlightlens.com), which will provide the best scratch resistance affordably available, and will still transmit lots of light. Since the optics will be custom-machined, we don't want them scratched up - they'll be hard to replace. 

Hmmm, you're right - I thought the Minimag body diameter was larger than it is...never mind the accessories, then. Pocket clips from them will still work, though - they're springy.


----------



## John Frederick (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Doug, this light is sounding first-class all the way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

To give you some perspective, with my limited funds I'm holding off on the L4 to buy this light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Thanks for the effort! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## this_is_nascar (Jun 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I wasn't able to find a picture of this light. Is there a pic around anywhere?


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Not yet, but you can look at Larry's thread and see his version. Mine will be very similar to his, but in black HA instead of natural HA.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

For the lazy ones... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


----------



## Darell (Jun 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

That's fine for the lazy people. Now do you have a picture for us *cheap* folks?


----------



## d'mo (Jun 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

To quote Homer, "Awghhaaaaaa, {with lots of drooling}. Can't wait! " /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif


----------



## WaltH (Jun 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Oh great...another light I'm going to have to have.


----------



## Mike451 (Jun 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Doug,

Can you give us an update on when you expect to take preorders for the Firefly? PayPal is primed and ready.

BTW, will you limit the number of Fireflys each of us can order?

Mike451


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

*Sigh* Well, I'd like to, but right now the CNC guy is tied up in another project, so he is not able to tell me if he can do the optics to my specs. Right now, the optics are my only hurdle, as all the other major details are nailed down. The battery size problem (the Lisuns happen to be on the large size of the 123 spectrum) has been dealt with by widening the body slightly (will be basically imperceptible). I've notified dat2zip of the due date for the Madmax modules (just waiting on his confirmation), sourced the materials, etc. 

I expected to be able to open the ordering up this week, but I can't, since the optics are stil in question. I should have the information in about 1 1/2 to 2 weeks, if not sooner. I'll make sure to notify everyone when I have the last details nailed down.


Mike451, I wil not be limiting the number you purchase - you are welcome to buy as many of these as you wish. I am doing a fairly large run, so I should have enough for the initial rush. 

I will be offering these with two configurations - complete lights, ready to go out of the box (including battery), and semi-complete, with the s/c being all parts except the module, so that you can install your own if you already have one. The modules in the complete lights will be the Madmax with Q3 emitters, so they should be quite good anyway. I think the BB modules will make the lights too hot, so they are not what I recommend.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Just a thought, since this is a keychain super light. Wouldn't the hole for the keyring be better if it was centered like on an ARC-AAA. I have one of the original creations. I think it is just about perfect except that I think the hole is not as good for a keychain offset the way it is.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

[ QUOTE ]
*Darell said:*
That's fine for the lazy people. Now do you have a picture for us *cheap* folks? 

[/ QUOTE ]





/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


----------



## Tomas (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Good one, Bart! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## d'mo (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Bart, Well done! ROTFLMAO!


----------



## FalconFX (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif


----------



## Rothrandir (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

i like the off-center hole /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

bad bart /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif


----------



## Tomas (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

When carrying the original design with a ring through it's tail on a belt clip, the off-center lanyard hole allows the light to lie perfectly as it hangs down.

Besides, it looks better. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## John N (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Will they be two tone, or black? I'm not into the two tone (or bare copper for that matter), but can live with it either way.

Thanks,

-john


----------



## Tomas (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Official*

But John! The black body with a copper head makes it look just like a Duracell AA! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

I would like either one: All black or copper/black. 

DESIGN CONSIDERATION: With the head and body intending to be the same color, even slight mismatches in color density or texture stand out and cheapen the product looks. With two intentionally different colors, whatever they are, that problem is eliminated. 

Actually, I'll take any color head with a black body. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## John Frederick (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Official*

The gold and black did look pretty cool but I wouldn't want to increase the price or cause a delay in delivery to get it.


----------



## John N (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Official*

The copper will oxidize tho, no?

-john


----------



## Tomas (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Official*

John N, the copper heat mass on the interior of the head will oxidize to some extent, true, but the copper color anodizing on the outside of the head holds it's color just like any other color anodizing ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

(The copper interior mass will be there no matter what color the head exterior is, BTW.)


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

The head and bezel ring will be in black HA3, and there will be a thin accent ring (part of the head, same diameter as the bezel ring) of copper to seperate them. I guess the copper will oxidize a bit, but your pockets will keep it shiny anyway... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, the keyring loop at the tail end will be offset like Larry's originals. That's part of what gives it the distinctive look, after all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Tomas (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Uh, 'head ring, bezel ring, accent ring?' 

Do you have a rough sketch of this new design? Sounds like the head is now three piece externally rather than the single piece design? 

Maybe this pause waiting for 'the CNC guy' would be a decent chance to work one up so it is available when preordering is open? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Rothrandir (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

the head was always a 3 piece design...

i have the origional drawings /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## John N (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

[ QUOTE ]
*DSpeck said:*
The head and bezel ring will be in black HA3, and there will be a thin accent ring (part of the head, same diameter as the bezel ring) of copper to seperate them. I guess the copper will oxidize a bit, but your pockets will keep it shiny anyway... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Thin ring copper = coolness.

-john


----------



## John N (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I know this is a goofy question, but will a Newbeam fit in there?

How do the Madmaxes do while turned way down (in regards to runtime)? Can I make an Infinity Ultra brightness light and get Infinity Ultra runtimes?

Thanks,

-john


----------



## Wylie (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Before I go too far with this let me say that is a really interesting flashlights and I am willing to work with any aborted parts you may have left over. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif 
Okay here goes from the armchair, I hate to be a stick in the mud and I am as well interested in these flashlights but the cu and al have been a bad mix for me. Something in the valance electrons, you know galvanic response. I am only saying this because of my personal experience with something similar. I was dealing with 2024 and a penny that brings zinc into the mix but it is a thought. Other then that I would like to have one too but anything is expensive these days. Then again maybe I'll be able to get one when they are done too. You know carpe dium that is if I have spelled it right anyway.


----------



## John N (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wylie said:*you know galvanic response. 

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good point. I know Cu is a better conductor, but do these things really need Cu? Seems like an all Al light would also lower the cost (of materials at least).

-john


----------



## Rothrandir (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

cu can store more heat than aluminum. and since there isn't much mass in this light, you need as much storage as possible in order to compensate.


----------



## Wylie (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I have to follow your lead Rothrandir I don't know of an al that is as dense as cu. I would think the only way around the cu/al combo is more mass in the heat sink with the al. To tell you the truth an all cu light like Wayne was doing might be kind of cool too. Sorry I just hate mixing metals because I have a greater factor involved with what I build. Water that ancient solvent is a real bugger.


----------



## FalconFX (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I'd hate to imagine how heavy an all copper light will be, though... I handled a pretty heavy copper CPU heatsink, a Swiftech MCX4000, and I'd hate to see how heavy a 2D body, full copper light could be. 

I can probably see something like a 1xCR123 or 2xAA light, but anything bigger than that may be too much to carry...


----------



## Wylie (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Looks like I found the other night owl tonight. It is a small flashlight and believe me I know what copper weighs. I have pulled miles of it and that would just be when the MCM designations were used. There is a thread going on now about the galvanic response and lost flashlights. Sounds like I would be an anal retentive engineer from what I have read.


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

The head is a two-part design - the accent ring is integral to the head. The bezel ring is what goes on the front end , as with many other lights, and is what retains the lens/optics and seals the head end. The bezel ring will screw down into contact with the accent ring to seal the head. All joints will be O-ring sealed.

The copper is kind of expensive, but is not really significant in overall terms of the light - the machining is the major expense (well, that and the Madmax... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ).

John N - the Opalec Newbeam will not fit in this - it's specifically designed for the Madmax sandwich.


----------



## trailstoride (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

[ QUOTE ]
*John N said:*

How do the Madmaxes do while turned way down (in regards to runtime)? Can I make an Infinity Ultra brightness light and get Infinity Ultra runtimes?


[/ QUOTE ]
I did a runtime test on a MadMax set for 3 hours of bright light. It ran over 48 hours after dimming /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif It was brighter or as bright as my Infinity well over 24 hours. This was using two AA alkaline cells. 

I don't know what runtimes you can expect with a 123 cell. Check out the runtimes for the ARC LS. I would expect it to be similar to the MadMax runtime on a 123.

I found a review for the ARC LS that said 2 hours bright and aproximately 1 hour moon.


----------



## koala (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

That's impressive for a MadMax on a AA cell. Perhaps DSpeck could make a AA tail for Firefly in the future?

Vince.


----------



## tvodrd (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Dspeck,
[ QUOTE ]
*DSpeck said:*
The head is a two-part design - the accent ring is integral to the head. The bezel ring is what goes on the front end , as with many other lights, and is what retains the lens/optics and seals the head end. The bezel ring will screw down into contact with the accent ring to seal the head. All joints will be O-ring sealed. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you've lost me. If you are willing, PM me a .dwg and I will take a look at it and critique privately. I have considered bringing the "sink" part out to the OD of the light, but the way my designs work, I need some tolerance to allow for lens gasket compression. I assume I am missing something from the descr.

Roth- that pic/drawing I sent you is for the earliest version of the CR2 light, which I did before the 123 version. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Larry


----------



## Tomas (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

_Whew!_

I'm glad it's not just _me_ that wasn't following the descriptions.

In any case, when the "pre-purchase" phase opens up, a picture of a prototype or a final drawing of the light needs to be available so we know what we are buying. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 





/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## tvodrd (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Hey Tom,

I release you from any prior constraints /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif . Go ahead and post it if you want! That extra lens bezel I threw-in was a reject at my end /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif . I remade it in 6061T6 so the color would come out right for the bosse's light. Taste's differ, and that's not a "shot." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (Check Ur PM)

Larry


----------



## Rothrandir (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

yes, but it's closer to the firefly than your 123 isn't it?


----------



## tvodrd (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Huh???


----------



## Rothrandir (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

the blueprints you gave me, while different than the small 123 you made, are fairly close to the firefly, correct?


----------



## tvodrd (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Roth,

Yeah, scaled-up for the 123 form factor (3/4" OD, and length) it would be the general direction for DSpeck to take. His choice as to how to do so is up to him!

Larry


----------



## jcciv (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

I am interested in purchasing one of these when they are available.


----------



## Tomas (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Official*

I'm not going to try to answer for Larry, Rothrandir, but I suspect you may be right at least to the extent that they are both sandwich based. Thing is, the sandwich and battery are both much smaller in the CR2, well, actually, the whole thing, every part, is smaller. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

====

Doug, am I correct in assuming that the individual fabrication folks will be providing bare metal proof-of-design parts so you can assemble, test, and do minor fine tune-ups on your design? If that hasn't been discussed with them, it probably would be a good idea 'just to make sure' that everything fits together and works perfectly before you have a couple hundred parts that are all .002 off size in some dimension, and won't work ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif 






*EDIT:* Larry beat me to the answer about the drawings, Roth. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Rothrandir (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Official*

yes, i was speaking of the design concepts in general /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Tomas (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Official FireFly Thread*

We've discussed colors quite a lot, so let me ask a theoretical question: 

If the FireFly were made in all black, or black with a dark red or blue or green head, or in some sort of swirling, tie-dye mix of colors all over, or just about anything other than puce /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif, would it still be a good light? Would you still buy it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

What I'm getting at is we all would like it to look nice, and each of us probably has a different idea of what "nice" looks like. Thing is, does the color make the decision for you on whether or not you'd buy one, or are the functionality of the design, and the quality of construction the most important features? 

My personal thought is that a two-tone light (black body and dark blue head, for example) would immediately be different and identifiable. If someone new came into CPF and asked if we knew what a tiny black and blue light was, we could answer immediately, eh? But do I really care about the colors? Naw. I care about the light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

The LL123 in this picture is some rather odd colors, and some might even consider it "ugly" (it's not), but to others it is a beautiful design. Personally, I happen to like it, and want to put a FireFly on the shelf right next to it no matter what color it is. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



 






P.S. Let me throw in another thought, OK? In years of project management I had a rule I used, and referred others to: You can have it on-schedule, done right, and within budget - chose any two. It may sound funny, but it really is true. I'm quite willing to wait for the light, how 'bout everyone else? 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Official FireFly Thread*

I am willing to wait....but then again I have one of the Tvord originals and just love it to death. The band of copper showing does not bother me a bit. I would take it like the above picture or with the band either way is fine with me.


----------



## Carpe Diem (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Official FireFly Thread*

[ QUOTE ]
*JonSidneyB said:*
I am willing to wait....but then again I have one of the Tvord originals and just love it to death. The band of copper showing does not bother me a bit. I would take it like the above picture or with the band either way is fine with me. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## obeck (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Official FireFly Thread*

[ QUOTE ]
*Carpe Diem said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*JonSidneyB said:*
... The band of copper showing does not bother me a bit. I would take it like the above picture or with the band either way is fine with me. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto!


[/ QUOTE ]
I usually dont ditto, but.... ditto


----------



## Jason Burns (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*DSpeck said:*
Lots of interest, that's excellent! I will be making a run of at least 100 to start with, more if the pre-orders require it. The pre-orders/payments will allow me to pay for the machining/anodizing/sandwiches etc. I will have as many done as I can afford to do, and sell the extras afterwards. If I can, I will do more in the future, but the demand during this inital run will determine that.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, we are still demanding! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ANY UPDATES??


----------



## DSpeck (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Sorry, no updates this week. Still waiting on the answer about the optics.


----------



## John Frederick (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Doug,

Do you have a plan B for the optics if you are unable to get them turned-down? I think a shallow McFlood-style reflector would make a good alternative. I know everyone wants this light to stick to the original design and the turned-down optics are a major feature, but... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## tvodrd (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Simply turning the optics isn't so bad. (Shortening them is!)It takes several .010" (light) cuts, then an .025 or so deep cut to leave a mounting flange. Polish it in the lathe. Rothrandir could probably do it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif . Sorry for the sorry pic:







Edit: I should have said shortening them in a mill is the risky PITA. (brain f**t) on designs with a turned shoulder as pictured, you can collet the shoulder and face them shorter and repolish.

Larry


----------



## Tomas (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Two reasons for this post:

1) Bump back to the top of the stack.

2) Ask Doug if there's anything we can do to help. 




/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Thanks for the bump, Tomas. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

There is nothing anyone else can do except get your Paypal ready to send off pre-payments as soon as I open up the process... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## jcciv (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

READY!!!


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Update: my regular machine shop can't do the optics, so I'll have to seek out somewhere else this week. I am also considering just turning the diameter of the optics down, and not worrying about the length. It's the shortening that's the problem, as noted by Larry above. We discussed the othre parts of the light today, and nailed down some of the details. We're making some progress, at least... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## tvodrd (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Shortening the optic only knocks about .050" off the overall length of the design, and IMO wouldn't be worth the added expense.

Larry


----------



## Icebreak (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

1/20th of an inch? I'm not going to notice that.


----------



## Jason Burns (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

[ QUOTE ]
*tvodrd said:*
Shortening the optic only knocks about .050" off the overall length of the design, and IMO wouldn't be worth the added expense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen and pass the fireflies!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## John N (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Agreed. If that's the difference in length, I don't care either.

-john


----------



## AlphaTea (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Heck, thats probably less than the diff in length between off and on!
So can we pre-order yet?
Can we?
Can we?
Well! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## John Frederick (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Yes, definately skip the shortening process. You already saved some length by using a sandwich anyway. The smaller diameter of this light is what excites me the most. It makes a big difference in a pocket. Rock on Doug! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jul 6, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

Is ready and waiting....I have long long long thought user upgradable lights were the way to go....perhaps most lights will be that way someday


----------



## PeterB (Jul 6, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

There are very good 2/3AF NiMH batteries available (e.g. KAN 950mAh or Hecell 1100mAH. These cells can easily supply 10Amps, have the same diameter as a 123 and are a little bit shorter (17X28mm).
=> It would be possible to make a rechargeable Firefly for these cells, which is even 6mm shorter and should give a runtime of 30 to 40min.
I would love that option )


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 6, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I have decided to redesign the light to accomodate the full-length optics, turned down in diameter. I am keeping the old design, and I'll still ask a few places about the shortened optics, but I'll give the machine shop another practise optic to turn the diameter down on and see if that works. If it goes OK, I'll let you guys know, and we'll start things in motion.

PeterB, if you wanted to use the rechargeable option, you might want to put in a small spring or foam ring a la the Arc-AAA, and use the same body, or make a small spacer to take up the extra space in the bottom of the light. Either option would work.

I discussed the idea of a 2AA tube with the machinist, but we decided it would be best to see how the 123-body went first, before going further with the design. We'll consider the additions and options later.


----------



## John Frederick (Jul 6, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I think a McFlood type reflector would be a cool option.


----------



## Tomas (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

I gave the machinist some more test optics, and we discussed what needs to be done to them. He will work on them tomorrow and let me know how they go. If they work out (modified design using the full length of the optics), I'll be opening the pre-order list, possibly as early as Friday.

Keep on the lookout for the announcement... coming soon to a forum near you! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## AlphaTea (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Icebreak (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: FireFly*

What AlphaTea said.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: DSpeck---You da man!!*

where and when do we send money


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: DSpeck---You da man!!*

Please check the thread in the B/S/T forum - all the info is there. You can now send the money anytime you are ready - orders are now being taken...

Thanks!

Doug.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: DSpeck---You da man!!*

how long are preorders being taken???


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: DSpeck---You da man!!*

Well, at least until I break even, I guess. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif These lights are expensive to produce, and I'm making a bunch, so I need to sell quite a few to break even. How many are you looking for, Jon? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: DSpeck---You da man!!*

Dspeck>I would like to order at least two. I just cannot do this until next friday as I have committed large sums of money in a dozen different places. The 21st of July would be the best time to get you money from me. Would that be too late???


----------



## Tomas (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: DSpeck---You da man!!*

It depends on how rapibly people order on that other thread, but personally I suspect that date would be fine, Jon.

Sorry, folks, I just gotta do it: *PayPal Sent!* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

Come on guys, get in line. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif 





/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: DSpeck---You da man!!*

JSB, I replied to your PM, please see my answer for details. Basically, you can send me an email, and I'll reserve the number you request until (at the latest) the 31st. Earlier is better, of course... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Beretta1526 (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

DSpeck,

I have a MadMax module that is meant to be in a Mini-Mag. I would like to possibly use it for a Firefly and would like to pre-order one this week. Send me a PM with what I will need and how much it should be.

Thanks!


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

Beretta, PM sent.


----------



## Beretta1526 (Jul 12, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

I am giddy with excitement.

My Firefly will have a Royal Blue beam. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif


----------



## Alan Hsu (Jul 13, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

The complete unit will be equipped with a low-dome LS, right?


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 13, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

Yes, that's correct. It is a Q3 bin low-dome LS, installed on a dat2zip MadMax+ sandwich.


----------



## Alan Hsu (Jul 13, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

DSpeck,

I was wondering cause you once said in the thread that the Firefly should have throw similar to LSH-x. Shouldn't that be LSL-X?


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 13, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

Yes, I guess more like the LSL-x. Since the optics are turned down smaller in diameter, there won't be quite as much throw. This is a keychain-sized light, so it is better suited to closer range tasks, I think.


----------



## souyou (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

If I modefy a reflector of Legend AAA or anything, I can put it into Firefly without problems, right?
I found that wide spill of Micro Illuminator's beam was useful.


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

I don't think any reflectors will work with the Firefly. It is really designed for the optics. If you can find a way to plate the inside of the head for reflectivity, it may work for that purpose, since it's sloped.


----------



## LEDmodMan (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

Dang... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif * <font color="red">PayPal sent!!!</font> * /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

This hobby costs to $#@%&! much money!!! Aaaaahhhhh!


----------



## souyou (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

Sloped?
Oh, I didn't know that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

Hopefully, I will have some pictures of the head this week, so I can post them to show you what it will look like.


----------



## John Frederick (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

Question:

Does anyone know if the small size of this light will create possible heat damage to the LED. If the MM is set WFO and the light is set down and left on will it build up enough heat to damage the LED? I assume that it will probably get hot enough to cause a slight burn.


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

I haven't been able to test for that yet, but I expect from the results that Larry got with his original LL123 that the light will get hot if left on. That's why I chose the adjustable MadMax driver - if yours gets too hot, just adjust it down to a more comfortable (and incidentally longer-running) level. I don't recommend running the light at WFO, it's better to run it at a middling level. The batteries will last longer, too.


----------



## StanTeate (Jul 17, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

Have we reached the 100 mark yet? Fixed costs been recouped yet?

Stan


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 17, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

Almost, and not yet. We are at over 90 so far, not counting people using money orders, as they haven't had time to arrive yet. 

I realize it is really ambitious, but I plan on making 200 of these lights! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif


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## brightnorm (Jul 19, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

[ QUOTE ]
*DSpeck said:*
Almost, and not yet. We are at over 90 so far, not counting people using money orders, as they haven't had time to arrive yet. 

I realize it is really ambitious, but I plan on making 200 of these lights! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Orders will probably shoot up after multiple reviews come in.

Brightnorm


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## Wolfen (Jul 19, 2003)

*Re: OFFICIAL Firefly Thread*

Paypal sent.


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## LightChucker (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

Saw the "Firefly" at the grocery store???

My wife and I were shopping this evening, and I happened to notice a small flashlight made by "GE" called the "Firefly". I don't know how all that trademark stuff works, but Maglight is causing ARC a lot of grief with less justification than this. 

Chuck


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## paulr (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Yeah, I saw those at the grocery store too. I was tempted to take a pic and post it here. It's just a generic 1AA incandescent light. As for the trademark, I think enough flashlights have been called Firefly in the past that one more isn't going to bother anyone.


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## FalconFX (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: Official*

There shouldn't be any worries here... One light will not be mistaken for another...


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## DSpeck (Jul 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Yeah, it's quite a different light. I did a Google search, and there's also an emergency beacon/flashlight that pilots use that's called the Firefly Plus. 

I'm hardly a threat to anyone at this stage, so I don't think there will be any problem with it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


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## LEDmodMan (Jul 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Plus, our Firefly is not really for "commercial" sale, only here on CPF. Plus, the name is not being put on the light anywhere AFAIK.


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## DSpeck (Jul 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Actually, I am working on getting a logo made, and am thinking about having it laser-engraved. If it works out, it will look very professional... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## LEDmodMan (Jul 25, 2003)

*Re: Official*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Jul 25, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

There's a "Firefly" made by Tektite, but it's more of a marker light (5 orange LEDs that blink) rather than a true flashlight like this is.
At least you didn't call this light a "Firebug" because that's not good at all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Go here to see Tektite's Firefly. (I see the page isn't quite done yet, but o well...)


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 26, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Hmm, I guess that one won't be mixed up with mine, either... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

Craig, I noticed you spelled it "Fire Fly" all the way through the page, not "Firefly" - is that because it is spelled like that on the packaging, or is that a typo? If that's how it is on the packaging, I have nothing to worry about...


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Jul 26, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

[ QUOTE ]
*DSpeck said:*
Craig, I noticed you spelled it "Fire Fly" all the way through the page, not "Firefly" - is that because it is spelled like that on the packaging, or is that a typo? If that's how it is on the packaging, I have nothing to worry about... 

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing it's spelled that way on the package. It's spelled that way ("Fire Fly") on Tektite's website too.
So I guess you don't have to worry about it - at least not until I need to decide on a URL for it... "firefly.htm" is already being used. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif


----------



## paulr (Jul 26, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

I think the GE light says Firefly on the package (one word). I'll take a pic when I get a chance.


----------



## paulr (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Doug, will you make some extra battery tails? If I get a Firefly I think I might want two tails for it, one of them fitted with a Kroll switch.


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Well, the availability of extra tails will depend heavily on the feedback I get from you, my customers. If there is a heavy demand for a 2AA, or a 1AA, or CR2, or whatever body, I will likely make that. I have had a few people asking for a 2AA body already, so that may be the first accessory.


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## d'mo (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

I'l like to see a "universal" holder for 1xAAA, 1xAA, 1x123, 1xCR2 plus anything else you could throw inside.


----------



## Hoghead (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Doug
I vote for a 1 AA.


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## DSpeck (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Errr, guys? How's about I get you the Fireflies in stock form, before we go off making accessories, hmmm ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif


----------



## Roy (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

I was going to suggest that! I need something to do runtime plots on! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## Hoghead (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Doug
You're doing the work, it's your ball game. I just thought
you were going to make future decisions about accessories
based on requests.
Thanks for all your hard work!


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Hoghead, I will certainly base my decisions about future accessories on requests, but it's simply a bit too early to be able to accept requests. I will accept requests after I get the Firefly out to people, and get some feedback on the basic form... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks, and your opinions will definitely count.


----------



## paulr (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Doug, by extra tails I just meant extra CR123 tails, which is simply a matter of having the CNC shop make a few more tails than heads, which shouldn't be any extra work for you. The Kroll fitting would be made by drilling out a normal 123 tail and tapping it. I think I could find a way to do that. Of course it would be great to see some accessory tails later. The 1AA and CR2 are the most interesting to me, but that's just me.


----------



## LEDmodMan (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

I was at an Army surplus store this weekend. They had an emergency u-tube strobe locator beacon called the Firefly. Now I can't remember the company's name. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif I thought it was Tek-tite, so maybe it's an older product... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## DSpeck (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Paulr, the base cr123 holder does not have enough thickness on the tail end to drill out and install a Kroll, and the ID is too large anyway. TS bodies would be under consideration for the accessories for sure.

LEDmodMan, I've seen pictures of those, and they are quite different in looks and construction, so there should be no problem.


----------



## glen (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Is it done yet?


----------



## Tomas (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

The FireFly, Glen?

Just about - the prototype of the head is in Doug's hand and the bezels are being made now. The bodies will probably be next week or soon thereafter.

Completed units for the _First Run_ should be out in under two months? 

Check the FireFly thread in B/S/T Lights Forum.


----------



## DSpeck (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

To answer some questions, here's this week's update:

I have sent the batch of completed bezel rings off to the anodizers (had to use a new complany, since the old one tells me they can't do black HA on 7075 (AFTER I get there with the box of parts!)). 

I have a prototype body of the light, which does work, but I won't show you yet, as the original knurling style is going to change, so I'll show you a completed one next week when it's done.

Preliminary testing with the basically-complete light shows that the heat-sinking must be pretty good, as you start to feel the heat in about a minute, but after about 5 minutes constant-on, it is still comfortable to hold. So far, so good... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## tvodrd (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif!

Larry


----------



## Jason Burns (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

[ QUOTE ]
*DSpeck said:*
So far, so good... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Woo Hoo!!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## BentHeadTX (Aug 9, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


----------



## Reno (Aug 9, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Crikes, this thread is huge... 
I really, really really want (at least) one. Holding me back are photogs of the final product, and beamshots vs. my beloved LSH-P. Other than that, I'm on board!! Nice work!!!

P.s. I'll watch the board for any photo postings.

Thanks


----------



## Tomas (Aug 9, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*




/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif





Flux, just guessing, but if someone got one and decided after a month he didn't really like it (What!?!!!) I doubt it would be hard to sell at no loss if it were "like new." Again, this is just a guess, but I think there will end up being more of a market than there is a supply. 

Anyone want to comment on that? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## flownosaj (Aug 9, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

cough*mclux*cough


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


-Jason


----------



## Reno (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: Official \'\'Firefly\'\' Thread*

Thanks for the low-pressure sell, guys, lol...
It's gotta wait a week in my case, no matter what. Hope I'm able to get one when I'm financially ready...

Heck, if the beamshots work out, I'll sell my LSH-P to make up the diff!


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## DnA2 (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Official \"Firefly\" Thread*

Hi, folks, this is DSpeck's wife sending a message from work. OUR COMPUTER IS VERY ILL. In fact it may be dead. Doug probably won't be able to get online again until Monday (August 18)./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif

So, don't panic because he hasn't answered your messages, he is going through withdrawal right now and will write back as soon as can. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


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## Hoghead (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Official*

DnA2,
A excellent treatment for withdrawal is to give him two
flashlights every four hours and plenty of time to enjoy 
them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Lux Luthor (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Official*

The only way to quit is cold turkey. Send him on a wilderness retreat for a few days, with no flashlights, save a 2C plastic one from the one dollar store loaded with "fresh" zinc-carbon batteries.


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## Tomas (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Official FireFly Thread*

Possibly it caught the Blast Worm/Virus? 

Hopefully he had everything backed up/printed as needed.

Sorry to hear that, and I understand the 'withdrawel.' Hoghead's prescription is the best, but they have to be really high-strength lights. Just normal over-the-counter types won't do it.

Thanks for letting us know! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


----------



## DSpeck (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Official FireFly Thread*

OK, guys, I'm back. It turned out to be the motherboard, which had to be replaced. I was stunned to find out that they could locate the trouble and replace the board in 4 hours, but they did. It was still under warranty, so it didn't cost anything, fortunately. YAY! 

Didn't get any flashlights out of it, though... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Lux, what an evil post - 2C plastic light with carbon-zincs in it indeed! For shame! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hoghead - well done - great prescription.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## StanTeate (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Will there be any designation on the rim or body of the light for its name and maker. This may be an option your customers may want to opt in to. 
I kinda like "CPF - Firefly by DSpeck"
I am curious what others think too!

Stan Teate


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## this_is_nascar (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Given the choice, I'd rather it not be engraved with anything.


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## flownosaj (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Official*

Same here. I like "stealth lights" and I can guarantee that I'll remember who made it. In the same thought, it's not like other non-flashaholics will try to buy one "by name" at Walmart.


"yes, I'd like a DSpeck custom made Firefly" 
"No, not the AA version, I'd like a C cell for longer run times." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

-Jason


----------



## paulr (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Official Firefly thread*

I really like the subtle engraving on the McLux TK pocket clip. Something like that would be great. No engraving is also cool. Maybe there could be some engraving out of sight somewhere, i.e. so you have to remove the head to see the engraving? It could just be Doug's URL or something like that.


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Official Firefly thread*

Somewhere on the light, it should read "Firefly", but that's just my 2¢.


----------



## flownosaj (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Official Firefly thread*

Maybe we could use a Captain Krunch decoder ring to decipher a special message! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


A tastefully done "Firefly" would be cool /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 



-Jason


----------



## StanTeate (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: Official Firefly thread*

Hmmm. Really diverse opinions! For those of you who believe the shortest path to getting this flashlight to your doorstep is the best way to go, I'm with you. Today is already too late. 
Since this is a forum, I think I'll expand my opinion just a bit. 
First, I'd like to see the guy's name on the light, who went to all the trouble to actually make the thing we all can't wait to arrive. I'll call it reverence and respect. 
Second, I''d like to see the light's name on the light, as it deserves!
Third, I'd like to see CPF on it, so we show respect for the very forum which makes this possible. I can not express the appreciation for the hours I spend gaining knowledge, being amused, and communicating with others who share common fetish - er, obsession-, er, ok maybe hobbie, no, that doesn't sound right either. I can't think of the riight word so someone else willl have to fill it in. 
Yes, this will add cost to an already expensive light, but since it had a special begining with Larry taking his time to make something that did not exist before. I'd like to have the option of seeing it display CPF, Firefly, and DSpeck, and I'll bet there are others too! 

Stan


----------



## LEDmodMan (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: Official Firefly thread*

Right now, I think I'm looking more forward to my (2) Fireflies' arrival than to my daughter that's on the way... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

JK! But hopefully I'll have the Fireflies before we have her (2 more months), and I can take her first picture with her holding a Firefly in her hand though! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif


----------

