# Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000



## HKJ (Dec 22, 2015)

[size=+3]Charger SkyRC MC3000[/size]















SkyRC makes advanced charger and some other equipment. This charger is a very advanced charger for cylindric cells of just about any type. This charger is more advanced than the usual hobby charger, but it is designed to handle four cells independently and not battery packs.






I got the charger with a power supply and a mains cable. Because I got the charger before the manual and box was finished I did not get that.



 





 





 



I did very soon realise that it was a good charger and that I could use some of them, therefor I put in a order and this order arrived a few days before I was going to publish the review. This has made it possible to add the above pictures of the box and do a few tests on the regular production units.
The contents of the box were the same as above, but with the manual included.









The power supply is a 15V 4A brick and the actual mains connection is handled by the supplied power cable. This makes it possible to use the same power supply for all countries.









The charger can be tilted a bit, this can make the display easier to read in some situations and will probably improve the cooling slightly.






On the back is a single power connection for 12V, or rather 11V to 18V.






On the side of the charger are two usb connections, one micro for a PC link and one full size for a usb power output (This is not a power bank). There is also a led to indicate Bluetooth connection to a smartphone.
The PC link can be used to control the charger and to update the firmware in the charger.









The slots uses the usual slider style, but the size is larger than usual, generally it works well, but flat top cells can be a bit tricky go get working. The two outer slots will fit D cells!
They support from 29mm to 72mm, this means even the longest protected 26650 batteries.






















































The charger can handle 72mm long batteries, inclusive flat top cells (May require a bit of tinkering), this means all protected cells.
RAM cells are not support "out of the box", but requires a special code from SkyRC.



[size=+2]User interface[/size]

With all the function in this charger it has a lot of user interface with lot of settings. Generally the (advanced) user interface works fairly well, but I have one complain:






I have just put 3 batteries in the charger and it shows this, what will it do with the batteries? The second column shows some symbols, the arrow down is discharge and the * is break_in, but what chemistry, current (capacity for break_in) have I selected? I must either remember it, have a note besides the charger or use a few keypresses to check it.

Pressing the 1, 2, 3 or 4 key will show the information:









I can move between all slots with the number keys and check the first four lines of the program, pressing the arrow keys will change between programs for that slot. To see more of the program I have to press enter and arrow down. When finished with looking at the program and maybe modifying them I need to hold enter down to get back to the first screen again.

Pressing enter on the first screen will start charging all slots, holding down a number key will start charing that slot.

While charging I can use the number keys to show actual charge/discharge information for each cell:









Two examples of the data display, scrolling down with the arrow key will show more information.






Here I have listed the full contents of the data display.

To return to the main screen enter must be pressed.









Pressing one of the arrow keys will show curves, repeatedly pressing arrows will change between the different batteries. Pressing enter will return to main screen.

With no batteries in the charger holding stop down will show the system menu:









In this menu the user interface can be selected, preferences can be selected, version can be read.

Let’s get back to user interfaces again. The charger has 3 different interfaces:

Dummy
Simple
Advanced

In my opinion only the advanced is interesting. 

The dummy interface makes it fairly simple. The charger will automatic select LiIon or NiMH and you only have to select current, but this requires pressing a number key, before using the arrow keys. To start charging enter must be pressed. This UI can only charge.

The simple interface is a very simplified version of the advanced interface, in my opinion to many settings is missing when using this interface. At least it gives access to all the functions on the charger.

Both simple and dummy uses default settings for maximum charge time and capacity, that cannot be change, but these defaults do not always work!

Settings in simple user interface:






The advanced user interface gives access to all the capabilities of the charger, but requires some time and understanding to get the programs right (I have written a small guide, it is near the bottom of this review).

Settings in advanced user interface:






Only one of CAPACITY/NOMINAL/MODEL will be visible. DELTA PEAK and TRICKLE C is shown for NiMH and TERMINATION for LiIon.

When adjusting charge current the termination current will also be adjusted to 10% of charge current, i.e. always remember to change it after adjusting the current.

CAPACITY, CUT TIME and CUT TEMP are safety settings and can be used to terminate a charge on abnormal conditions.



All the system settings:






RAM cannot be enabled, it requires a secret sequence and SkyRC will only tell it to people with a receipt for RAM cells.
I do not really see the point in hiding some chemistries on this charger, you do not have to select chemistry each time you charge a cell, only when making a program


[size=+2]PC interface[/size]

The charger has a PC interface and it is possible to download a program from SkyRC to control the charger (Click on images for full size):





The program looks this way when started. It has a curve area, some values and checkmarks to enable different curves.
The layout is fixed in size and this means you need a screen with at least 1000 dots in height to see all charts.





On the settings page the actual program for each slot in the charger can be seen and it is possible to update the charger software. From this program you can either use the program number that is selected on the charger or make your own settings.
Clicking on one of the charger settings will open a popup (If the charger is idle). There is a button to load the actual programs from the charger (Send to device will not change the programs only override it temporary).



 



It is possible to adjust all the charger parameters in this popup. The initial popup is the small version, but pressing the >> symbol will open the full popup.





Here I have started charging on 2 slots and discharging on 1 slot. While this is running I can enable/disable curves, the curves are saved, even when not displayed, this means that enabling a curve will show the full curve from the start.





Here is the full charge curves, with the LiIon cell I had specified to low capacity and it was stopped when that capacity was reached.
With NiMH the curves shows the pauses used to measure voltage, it would be nice if it was possible to hide these pauses.






A nice little detail is that some measuring lines are show when the cursor is moved inside a chart.
In this chart it is also possible to see how the voltage measurements are done each time the current is turned off for NiMH (The voltage increases each time the current is off).





The save button will save an image with the same size as the layout on the screen, but it do not include UI elements and it uses transparent background. There is a problem with some of the text, it is not very readable.






If you want to play with the data, the software saves a csv file with all the data (very nice). This is file saved in the same directory as the exe file and not where the screen dump is saved (oops)!

One nice detail with the software is that it does not need a driver or any installation, just plug the charger in, unpack the software and run it.
But the software is not perfect, I have tried to record a LiIon refresh, but I only get the first 35 minutes on the pc?

The free software DataExplorer also has support for this charger.



[size=+2]Smartphone interface[/size]

I could not test this, the charger would not work with my HTC one smartphone, a small Samsung smartphone or with my Sony pad.
That has prevented me from testing it.



[size=+2]Measurements[/size]



When not powered the charger will discharge with about 4mA
When powered the charger will discharge with about 0.4mA.
Any voltage above 0.10 volt will register as a battery and show voltage on display.
In the 0.10V to 4.50 volt range the charger was within 0.01 volt of my DMM (Very good).
Charge current is within 0.01A of my DMM (#1 not included) (Very good).
Discharge current is within 0.02A of my DMM (#1 not included) (Very good).
Voltage is always updated, also when charging is finished.
Restarting charging when voltage drops is configurable.
Trickle charging is configurable.
Charging voltage is configurable.
-dv/dt sensitivity is configurable.
Unloaded power consumption is 1.1 watt from 12V with display on and 0.7 watt with display off.
Unloaded mains power consumption with display on is 2 watt, with display off and 1.4 watt (Power supply alone is 0.29 watt).



[size=+1]Dummy mode user interface[/size]

In this mode you just put LiIon or NiMH cells in the charger and select current, chemistry and charge parameters are automatic selected.






First battery in dummy mode is a 3100mAH LiIon cell where I selected 1A charge current. It did not really work because the charger has a default time limit of 3 hours on all charging (In advanced mode I can change it, but not in dummy or simple mode).
To charge LiIon in dummy mode this means I either has to accept a fairly high charge current, accept partial charged cells or charge two times.
I hope this get fixed in next software update.






With NiMH AA/AAA the 3 hours limit is much more acceptable and it did a fine charge. When finished it uses a low trickle charge current, because I mostly uses LSD (*L*ow *s*elf *d*ischarge) cells, I would have preferred it without trickle charge (Using advanced mode it can be disabled).
Charging real C or D cells in dummy mode will probably hit either the time limit or the capacity limit.


[size=+1]Charging LiIon[/size]






First test is a normal LiIon charging at 1A. The current is very precise at 1A, until the charger goes into constant voltage phase. The termination is at 50mA, this is not the default for the charger, but something I selected.
This charge curve is just about a perfect CC/CV charge.
The display shows 2926mAh charged into the battery, this is very close to my equipment.














The 3 other channels looks about the same, #2 is a bit slower because the cell goes into the CV phase earlier due to higher internal resistance and takes longest to charge (i.e. it is a bit more worn).
The display shows: 2950mAh, 2961mAh, 2858mAh






With freely adjustable charger current I can charge these cells at their maximum charge current and save some time.
Nearly all 18650 cells have a maximum charge current at 1.5A or higher.






It is also possible to do a very slow charge, just remember to disable time check.
Display shows: 2834mAh






With the 2600mAh cell I used the standard termination current (10% of charge current, i.e. 100mA in this case).
Display shows: 2498mAh






No surprise with this cell.






Charging a 14500 cell with 20mA termination works perfectly.
Display shows: 756mAh






My very old and nearly completely worn out cell is also handled perfectly by the charger.






This charge can also charge with very low current, i.e. handle small LiIon cells like 10180. Here I am charging with 50mA and it is a stable 50mA current (Very nice). I did use "Zero" termination, it looks like it is close to the 10mA termination.






This worn cell is easily handled by the charger.






Four cells at 1A is easy enough for the charger.






Here I fast charged some cells using the full power of the charger. Input current did go slightly above 5A with a 12V supply.
I did set a fairly low termination current to secure the cells would be filled, using the default higher termination current would only have lost me a few percent of the capacity and saved me 20 minutes in charge time.
The cells started at a fairly low voltage and the charger used slow charge until they reaced 3.2 volt, then it turned on the full current.






M1: 35,1°C, M2: 37,2°C, M3: 37,8°C, M4: 34,1°C, HS1: 45,1°C
Charging with 1A, the fan did not start during this charge.






M1: 41,1°C, M2: 43,1°C, M3: 42,7°C, M4: 39,1°C, M5: 46,6°C, HS1: 55,3°C
Charging with 3A, here the fan started, as can be seen on the table and on the much cooler charger. Remember that it is possible to adjust when the fan starts, i.e. how hot the charger must be.






M1: 48,9°C, M2: 51,0°C, HS1: 73,8°C






When the start button is pressed the charger will measure internal resistance of the batteries, then it will slowly ramp the current up to selected charge current. When charging LiIon is will use constant current all the time.






The charger has a special protection reset, hold down the number button for an empty slot and it will pulse the current.



[size=+1]Charging LiIon 4.30V and 4.35V[/size]

The charger has a 4.35V LiIon setting, inside this setting it is possible to adjust the charge voltage to either 4.35V or 4.30V (Any value from 4.10 to 4.40) when using advanced UI.






I tested with a 4.35V cell and 4.35V charge voltage, everything worked as expected.



[size=+1]Charging LiIon 3.60V i.e. LiFePO4 cells[/size]











Both LiFePO4 curves looks fine.



[size=+1]Discharging LiIon[/size]

The charger has a discharge limit of 15 watt, this means it will either do 1 LiIon at up to 2A or 2-4 LiIon at up to 1A.






The discharge function will empty a battery, this is useful for measuring capacity. On this charger the end voltage can be selected, I am using 2.8 volt.
Display shows: 2915mAh














Not much difference between channels.
Display shows: 2986mAH, 2914mAh, 2909mAh






The charger has a useful function when discharge must be until a specific current (Like a led that will work down to 50mA at 2.8 volt). Using the D.REDUCE option the charger will continue to discharge until both voltage and current is below the setting.
Look at the much lower voltage recovery here, even though I started discharged at 2A, the final current was only 50mA.






Due to the power limit in the charger it can only discharge multiple LiIon batteries with 1A (A single cell can be discharge with 2A). 
Discharging multiple LiIon cells at full current will produce a lot of heat and it can overheat the charger, this is not a problem for the charger, it will just reduce current. To avoid that be sure to place the charger on a hard surface with lots of free air around it, anything close to the back part of the charger means some of the hot exhaust air will be sucked in again, making the charger warmer. It is also possible to reduce discharge current or only discharge 3 cells.
As can be seen on the curve I did not see any reduction of current on channel #1, but I do not know if the charger reduced current on some of the other channels.






M1: 38,0°C, M2: 41,1°C, M3: 39,5°C, M4: 36,5°C, M5: 46,8°C, M6: 44,6°C, M7: 33,9°C, HS1: 57,9°C
As usual when discharging batteries a lot of heat is generated, here it is obvious that the fan is on and that the airflow is down.
The construction with the heatsink and the fan in the back of the charger keeps the batteries fairly cool during discharge.






M1: 47,1°C, M2: 53,1°C, M3: 49,2°C, HS1: 55,2°C
The table below the charger is heated a bit, using the foldable legs on the charger would reduce this.






When start is pressed in discharge mode the charger will first measure the internal resistance of the cells, the slow ramp up the discharge current. There is no pulsing, it uses a steady current.



[size=+1]Other functions LiIon[/size]

The charger can do a couple of other functions on LiIon.






When storing LiIon batteries for months or more, it is best to start with them in the 3.7 to 3.8 volt range. This charger has a special function for charging the batteries to that voltage (As usual the actual voltage is adjustable).






Or discharging, if the battery is full. Here the D.REDUCE function would have been nice, but it cannot be enabled (This has been fixed in a software upgrade).






The cycle function can be used to test capacity over time (i.e. how long does it take to wear a battery down), it is possible to do up to 99 cycles! Depending on the settings in the charger it can either start with charge or discharge and finish with charge or discharge.
Display: 2834mAh, 2835mAh, 2826mAh (It is possible to read the value for each cycle).






The refresh function will do one cycle and then report the capacity. Here the function is always charge, discharge, charge.



[size=+1]Charging NiMH[/size]






A nice -dv/dt charging. All the pulsing it not due to pwm, but because the charger measures voltage with current off.
Display shows: 2004mAh














It is the same on the other 3 slots.
Display shows: 2043mAh, 2007mAh, 2019mAh






Display shows: 2644mAh






Display shows: 2508mAh






This cell was stopped due to the default 3 hour time limit. The cell is about full, but there is no voltage drop yet (i.e. -dv/dt signal).






When charging a AA cell at 0.2A the charger will not terminate (this no surprise), using the capacity setting I avoid continuous over charge, but stops soon after the battery is full (if I started with an empty battery). 






A AAA cells is handled without any problems.






The charger was fairly fast at detecting a full cell (for a -dv/dt charger).






If you want to handle the batteries very careful, it is possible to use voltage termination, but you will not get the batteries filled completely. This charge method requires placing the termination voltage at the correct value, even a little bit too high will be hard on the batteries. Use capacity and timer cut settings can limit the damage if that happens.
Display shows: 1749mAh






On the above my termination setting was 1.5 volt, but looking at the curve it looks like it terminates slightly below that value. Using my most advanced DMM I can confirm that it is the case. The termination setting was 1.5 volt, i.e. the top yellow line, but it terminated at the bottom yellow line. The strange thing is that the display also shows the value for the bottom yellow line (I did not check exactly at the termination).






Here I tried with a 0dv/dt setting, with this cell it gives a fast termination when the cell is full. Sometimes it may terminate at the start of the charge, due to the cell heating up.






There is no problem charging 4 cells simultaneous.






M1: 34,5°C, M2: 37,1°C, M3: 36,3°C, M4: 34,5°C, M5: 38,1°C, M6: 32,5°C, HS1: 42,9°C
Charging with 1A






As usual the charger starts by measuring the internal resistance, then it slowly ramps current up to select level.






During NiMH charge the charger will pause to measure voltage (This is not pwm).



[size=+1]Discharging NiMH[/size]






The discharge curve looks fine, both the discharge voltage and current can be adjusted.
Display shows: 1853mAh














Display shows: 1878mAh, 1870mAh, 1868mAh






Here I discharge 4 NiMH batteries, this does not generate much heat. The charge I did just before heated the batteries considerable more as can be seen at the start of the temperature trace.






M1: 25,8°C, M2: 39,1°C, M3: 40,2°C, M4: 40,5°C, M5: 38,4°C, M6: 38,0°C, M7: 41,4°C, HS1: 52,6°C
Discharging 4 eneloops with 2A, fan is on.






No surprise here, first the internal resistance measurement, then slowly ramping the current up. There is no pulsing when discharging.



[size=+1]Other functions NiMH[/size]






The refresh function will charge, discharge and charge again, the display shows the discharged capacity.
Display shows: 1835mAh







The standardized break-in charge, it takes a very long time. Sadly the display shows charged capacity and not discharged capacity (Oops).
Display shows: 3795mAh

I have not tested the cycle function for NiMH, see LiIon for a test.



[size=+1]Internal Resistance[/size]

The charger measures internal resistance of a battery before starting on an operation.






This is a very good result, the correct values in the result column are 10-40-100 and all slots are fairly close to that and the variance between repeat measurement is fairly low.
What I analyze above is mostly the measuring circuit, not the variations in contact resistance or the total circuit resistance.






Here is a closer look at the RI measurement sequence. It looks like the charger uses two currents for the measurement, in most cases this will give same result as one current, but in a few cases this will give a better result than one current (See more here).



[size=+1]Calibration[/size]

It is possible and fairly easy to do your own calibration, if you have a good dmm. I have not done any calibration before doing the above test, but I have checked the factory calibration using a Keithley DMM7510 (Note: This is not a production charger):

Discharging with 1A according to charger, correct value is:
Current channel #1: 1.0135
Current channel #2: 0.9980
Current channel #3: 1.0060
Current channel #4: 1.0060

First number is charger, second number is DMM, 3 number is difference
Voltage channel #1: 4.116 4.123 (-0.007)
Voltage channel #2: 4.113 4.123 (-0.010)
Voltage channel #3: 4.116 4.123 (-0.007)
Voltage channel #4: 4.123 4.123 (0.000)

The current calibration is within 1.5% and voltage is within 0.3%, this matches fairly well with the result from the two production chargers I bought:

*Unit #38 (Last digits of serial number)*
Current channel #1: 1.0130
Current channel #2: 1.0070
Current channel #3: 1.0135
Current channel #4: 1.0124

First number is charger, second number is DMM, 3 number is difference
Voltage channel #1: 4.141 4.146 (-0.005)
Voltage channel #2: 4.137 4.146 (-0.009)
Voltage channel #3: 4.140 4.146 (-0.006)
Voltage channel #4: 4.146 4.146 (0.000)


*Unit #26*
Current channel #1: 1.0085
Current channel #2: 1.0020
Current channel #3: 1.0162
Current channel #4: 1.0170

First number is charger, second number is DMM, 3 number is difference
Voltage channel #1: 4.139 4.146 (-0.007)
Voltage channel #2: 4.136 4.146 (-0.010)
Voltage channel #3: 4.138 4.146 (-0.008)
Voltage channel #4: 4.146 4.146 (0.000)

I did calibrate both units and now the error is about 1 on the last digit, but is expected to change with temperature and age.



[size=+1]USB output[/size]



USB output is coded as Sony.
This is not a power bank function, only a usb charger output.
Unloaded power consumption is 1.1 watt from 12V with display on and 0.7 watt with display off.
Unloaded mains power consumption with display on is 2 watt, with display off and 1.4 watt (Power supply alone is 0.29 watt).







The output is rated for 2.1A and the output starts limiting power at 2.3A (nice).






Running 1 hour with 2A load was no problem.






M1: 36,8°C, M2: 40,2°C, HS1: 41,5°C
The electronic for the usb out is placed below the display, as can be seen from the heat.






M1: 42,0°C, HS1: 53,3°C






M1: 42,2°C, M2: 45,1°C, HS1: 57,3°C






There is not much noise in the usb output: 19mV rms and 114mVpp






Increasing to 1A do not change it: 19mV rms and 117mVpp






At 2A the noise is increased slightly, but still very low: 21mV rms and 161mVpp



[size=+2]A look inside[/size]

Because there has already been a couple of pictures posted of the inside, I decided to do a teardown.



 

A total of six screws must be removed to open it. The small fan has a connector to the circuit board (nice).



 

The main circuit board can be easily removed, everything is with connectors, but getting everything together again is not that easy!



 

The full circuit board, I will look at it in detail shortly. The cute animal is a reference to the guy that helped SkyRC with ideas to design the charger.



 

Here the heatsink and the 6 thermo sensors can be seen. Two is placed against the heatsink and four will match holes in the top part and be placed very close to the batteries. That means they will not measure the battery temperature, but will be an indication on how warm the batteries are.
The wires used for the battery connection is fairly thick, this means the voltage readout on the charger will be very close to the actual battery voltage during charge and discharge.



 

A closer look at the heatsink and the four switching charge circuits. Behind each inductor is a transistor, that is mounted on the heatsink. This transistor is probably used when discharging batteries.



 

The actual heatsink design is not made for best cooling, there are few holes in the circuit board the fins are horizontal. A vertical find placement is usual better for cooling, because the air will the flow up over the full heatsink area. 



 



 

The bottom of the circuit board has some electronic below the heatsink, this is the rest of the four switching circuits.



 

 

Getting close to the circuit. Here is the main processor STM32F103RBT6 it is an ARM processor that has 128k flash, 20k ram, 51 I/O pins, 16 ADC's, SPI, i2C, USB, 16 pwm 16 bit. This is a fairly powerful processor for a charger.
The blue circuit board with the CC2541 is the Bluetooth module
The usb output is supplied from the ACT4070 switcher and has a PTC fuse in series with the output (F5). It looks like the internal power supply is from a 7805 and a AMS1117 (nice with independent supply).



 

Between the slots is the analog input that measures voltage and current. The ADC is a MCP3424 with 4 differential 18 bit channels, build-in reference and full scale from 0.25V to 2V, each one handles two channels. The 2904 may be dual opams used to amplify the voltages for some ADC.



 

The charging/switcher circuit is mostly diodes and transistors, there is a single LM393. The R025 is probably the resistors that is used for current measurements.



 

The resistors for the usb output.



 

The start/stop and arrow keys uses real switches, that means they can be repaired if they ever break.



 

The number keys is also switches and there is a red and a green led on each side of the switch.



 

The display is a lcd display.



 

And there is a backlight module below it. There must also be some electronic, but I am not going to remove the display.



[size=+2]Power supply tear down[/size]

Because the power supply died, I decided to do a tear down.






I could not open the power supply with my vice and had to cut it open.



 

Looking on the top side of the circuit board I can see a fuse, a bridge rectifier, a mains switcher transistor, opto coupler, safety capacitor and two rectifier diodes. Testing the fuse shows that it is blown.
*BUT* all the noise/EMI protection is missing, this charger will probably not pass a CE or FCC test



 

There is not many interesting parts on the bottom, only the mains switcher controller (U1) and a chip to control the voltage feedback (U3). None of the chips has a hole in them.
The circuit board has space for some more parts, probably used for another model.



 

The heatsink has some heatshrink to improve isolation (Required).



 

 

The bridge rectifier do not touch the heatsink and I would not expect it needs to. On the output here is a missing inductor (L3).



 

Again some heatshrink to improve isolation.



 









There is no problems with isolation distance, it is very good.



 

 


I have seen another tear down of this power supply and some of the inductors and other stuff that is missing here was included. This means that SkyRC probably has two versions of this power supply, one for EU/US and one for countries where they are not that critical with EMI and I got the wrong one for EU, even though the label say CE and FCC approved. These missing parts are not a safety problem.
The second picture above is from the teardown below and the label looks the same as the labels on my units.






Here is a picture from the other teardown (cpf user aekvulture), there is four EMI suppression parts just behind the mains inlet.



[size=+2]Short guide for normal use[/size]

To select programs for all slots (Same or different do not matter) with or without batteries in the charger:

Press 1, use arrows to select program
Press 2, use arrows to select program
Press 3, use arrows to select program
Press 4, use arrows to select program
Press and hold enter.

To start operating on all slots: Press enter
To start operating on a specific slot: Press and hold number key.

The above do, of course, require that you have already made the programs.



[size=+2]Small programming guide[/size]

This guide do not say how to enter or store programs, but it is about what values to use for charging.
As can be seen above I prefer the advanced mode, there is a couple of reasons for that:
1) I do not like all the defaults, they mostly work, but are not ideal.
2) Some default settings will limit the charger.

Remember: C=marked mAh value on the cell.

[size=+1]NiMH[/size]

Be careful with charge current, using anything below 0.3C will probably miss termination on AA/AAA cells. I mostly uses around 0.5C.
To keep the cells safe if the terminations is missed use a capacity limit between 130% and 150% of the cells capacity and a timer cutoff calculated as capacity/current*1.4, i.e. for a 2000mA cell at 1A it is 2000/1000*1.4 -> 2.8 hours -> 2 hours 48 minutes.
FOr NiMH the -dv/dt setting must be as low as possible, I used 3mV for my test, but a lower value might be even better. Too low value will not damage the cell, but might give early termination.
LSD cells do not need any trickle charge, for other cells a 10mA trickle charge can be used, but it not really needed either (Some manufactures recommend a *time limited* trickle charge after a -dv/dt charge).

Official termination voltage for NiMH when discharging to measure capacity is 1 volt, but there is no problem going lower (like 0.8 volt).

With NiMH the cycle mode can be used to refresh cells that has been unused for some times.

break_in is the official way to measure capacity, but this will first work when the charger software is fixed.


[size=+1]LiIon[/size]

LiIon cannot really be over charged when the charger uses the correct voltage, but damage cells can do nasty things if the charger continues to charge them. Using the capacity and timer cut specification will reduce the risk of that.
Because LiIon do only need rated capacity when charged the safety limit can be place as low as 10% above the rating, but more is also acceptable. For 18650 I will be using 3600mAh and for 26650 7000mAh limits.
Time can be estimated as capacity/current+2 hours, i.e. for a 3400mAh cell at 1A it is 3400/1000+2 -> 5.4 hours or 5 hours and 40 minute. The extra hours added will depend on cell age and termination current, two hours will work in most cases.

When discharging using 3V as "cut volt" is always safe, for lower voltage it is best to check the datasheet, but a single discharge to a lower voltage without using the "D.REDUCE" option will probably be safe (I have never seen any problems in my tests).


Testing the mains transformer with 2500 volt and 5000 volt between mains and low volt side, did not show any safety problems.



[size=+2]Conclusion[/size]

This charger can handle many chemistries and many battery sizes and in addition to this it has a good precision, all of this is way above any other (consumer) charger on the market at the current time.
Using the safety functions (Capacity, time, temperature) it is very easy to add a extra layer of safety to the charge process and due to the programs it only has to be configured once and then it will be active for all charging of the battery type.
The charger has 3 UI modes, the dummy mode is mostly for people that got this charger without realizing what it is, the simple mode can be used to charge/test any chemistry, but it is not really possible to adjust any parameters. For really using the charger there is only advanced mode (Or PC/phone interface).

The charger is not without issues, most of them will probably be fixed with software upgrades, I have collected some of them here:

It is required to remember the program numbers or press a key, on the initial screen there is no hint on how the selected program works.
Default time on LiIon is 3 hours, this is to short.
When terminating on time or capacity, no capacity information is saved.
Break_in shows charged capacity, not discharge capacity.
Backlight always requires a keypress to turn on, putting a battery into the charger will not turn the light on
Factory calibration do not match specifications.
The PC software requires a high screen resolution
NiMH charge curves looks messy on PC, an option to hiding measuring pauses would be nice.
PC software saves csv files at wrong location.
It is not possible to copy programming from one charger to another, people with more than one charger (That will be me) must enter each program on each charger!
The Bluetooth software is not stable and do not work on all phones.
Strange coding on the usb output, why not use a chip to automatic get the best coding?



Even with all the above issues I can only call it a very good charger, but it is not for everyone.



[size=+2]Notes[/size]

The charger was supplied by Gearbest for a review.

The supplied power supply died during one of my first test and for the rest of the testing I used my own power supply. I assumed that it was faulty power supply and have not included that in my evaluation of the charger. The 5000V test was done on the two power supplies supplied with the production chargers, they do work fine.

Here is an explanation on how I did the above charge curves: How do I test a charger
Read more about how I test USB power supplies and chargers


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## kreisl (Dec 22, 2015)

Hello HKJ,

fantastic review quality work there, beautiful, with so many tests and measurements, what an effort, thanks a million for it! 

And so much of the reviewed parts sound so .. erh .. positive! :twothumbs

It's a huge relief to hear such a positive evaluation. You took all the critical detail measurements which i wasn't able to take. No fun work left for me! 

(…)

Sure enough I feel this is a promising beginning of the MC3000 story. There will always be little details on the hardware, firmware, *PC L*ink *S*oftware (PCLS), *D*ata*Ex*plorer support (DEX), appware (Android, iOS) side which could be reinvestigated and evolved over time, typically through silent updates. From a sound perspective i cannot see anything _major _which would require urgent fixing. 

Hopefully many owners, early or late, will appreciate and enjoy the product as much as i do. 

Btw, my unit is a so-called engineering sample. It's for me to look over the assembly, mod to my liking (e.g. swap parts like buttons, fan, sliders from prototypes), and check if there is potential room for improvement during assembly.

Thanks again for your hard work with this review. 

"_HKJ endorses MC3000._" — That's terrific news. Thanks for the support! :kiss:


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## maukka (Dec 22, 2015)

A long time lurker here just registered to thank you for the awesome review!

Have you guys had any problems with the usb connection? I've noticed that the charger is very finicky about the cable. Four out of five micro usb cables either don't work at all with it or disconnect after 10-30 minutes of logging. Only one short cable (10 cm) seems to be working for me. I have tried all the cables with a laptop (Macbook Pro) and a desktop computer. The same thing happens with MC3000 Monitor and Dataexplorer, but the latter actually reports the disconnection while SkyRC's software just freezes.


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## billcushman (Dec 22, 2015)

This is a superb review of a complicated charger. It must have required many hours of work to produce such an extensive review. The addition of the teardown is a very nice inclusion. Thanks so very much for providing all this information for everyone. We appreciate your hard work and extensive high quality instrumentation.
HKJ, this review is in a class by itself!


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 22, 2015)

Great review as Always

I will wait for V2 or more likely V2 will be out by the time i save up enought money to buy one.

What is the warranty on this charger as i seem to have bad luck with chargers failing on me, and this one is not cheap.

John.


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## JB (Dec 22, 2015)

Thanks for all the effort in writing this review HKJ. Such a capable charger requires more writing than usual. 

The extra teardown pictures are appreciated.


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## TEEJ (Dec 22, 2015)

Amazing review.

:rock:


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## candle lamp (Dec 22, 2015)

Excellent review. HKJ! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thank you very much for your time and effort.

This charger is very good but somewhat complicated to me. Just hope the upgrde version will be released.


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## scarnific (Dec 22, 2015)

Really a great review! Thank you very much for your hard work :twothumbs


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## Mr Floppy (Dec 22, 2015)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> I will wait for V2 or more likely V2 will be out by the time i save up enought money to buy one.



Hopefully in V2 they will make the unit just a bit wider so that it can handle 4 D cells.


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## JB (Dec 22, 2015)

candle lamp said:


> Excellent review. HKJ! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> Thank you very much for your time and effort.
> 
> This charger is very good but somewhat complicated to me. Just hope the upgrde version will be released.



What makes you think the upgrade version (if ever there is one) will be less complicated? 

A charger like this, which has so many user options, will never really be simple to operate.


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## JB (Dec 22, 2015)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> I will wait for V2 or more likely V2 will be out by the time i save up enought money to buy one.



Just curious, what improvements are you hoping for in a V2 (if there is to be one in future)?

For me, I'm hoping most of the issues/improvements can be delivered via FW updates. It's only hardware issues that cannot be changed this way and needs a new product release (e.g. the thermal design, which could be improved).


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## _UPz (Dec 22, 2015)

Thank you HKJ for the nice review. :twothumbs


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## -Archie- (Dec 22, 2015)

As expected, very informative and useful review. Many thanks! :thumbsup:


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## hey_tommy (Dec 22, 2015)

Most superb review for a most superb charger - thanks HKJ!!! :twothumbs:thumbsup:


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## HKJ (Dec 22, 2015)

As I wrote in the review the MC3000 is not for everybody, but some people can get a lot of benefits from it and I am one of those.
I have just been removing a lot of "old" charges and replaced them with two MC3000, I expect this will give me more flexibility and it do take up considerable less space.

This is, of course, very closely related to my charger testing, where I need to discharge batteries very often.






I did usual not use the 4-way hobby charger, it takes up a lot of space and has two small very noisy fans.
That means with the old setup I could usual do: 2 (6) LiIon discharge, 4 LiIon charge, 8 NiMH charge/discharge and the possibility to add 4 LiIon charge/discharge. 
With the new setup I got: 8 LiIon/NiMH charge/discharge and due to the D.REDUCE I can discharge faster. The MC3000 is easier to use than hobby chargers or PowerEx (But more difficult than the Xtars).


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## Viking (Dec 22, 2015)

Excellent review HKJ. Thanks a lot :twothumbs
My unit has been in customs almost a week now, I hope I will get it soon.


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## chewy78 (Dec 22, 2015)

Mr Floppy said:


> Hopefully in V2 they will make the unit just a bit wider so that it can handle 4 D cells.


 now that would be cool


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## fnsooner (Dec 22, 2015)

Great review HKJ. I love mine even though I haven't had enough time to figure it all out. 

For the record, I did have a missed termination on a Tenergy Centura C cell rated at 4000 mAh. After work, I set up a refresh program on four batteries for a 1A charge and a 1A dishcharge and capacity limit set to OFF. I woke up in the middle of the night to check it out and found that three of the batteries had finished with the capacities around 3950mAh. The fourth battery was still charging and the mAh reading was up to 5200. I pulled all the batteries and haven't had a chance to mess with anything since.

I have four more of the same batteries to refresh and analyze. I guess I will charge them at 2A and see if they terminate properly. I will probably also redo the one battery that did fail to terminate properly.

I guess the moral of the story is to follow HKJ's advice on charging NiMHs.


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## Andrey (Dec 22, 2015)

Exceptional review!
Thank you, HKJ!


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## Gauss163 (Dec 22, 2015)

Mr Floppy said:


> Hopefully in V2 they will make the unit handle 4 D cells.



Will Einstein be consulting on that? Alas, all of my chargers are limited to 3 D. No doubt he also knows a mod for 4 D watts (vs. the current 15 watts discharge power).

@Tom: it's a joke! 4 Dimensions vs. 3 Dimensions ... Einstein ....

@Gauss: Now I get it... thanks for the context.


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## LiteTheWay (Dec 22, 2015)

Yes, once again outstanding review HKJ for which many thanks. I have mine and love it although I have not figured all of it out - yet. 

Like you I have packed up a bunch of other chargers and will try to sell them off - cheaply.


HKJ - on your 'issues' comment:

"Backlight always requires a keypress to turn on, putting a battery into the charger will not turn the light on".

You can go in to Setup and can change the Backlight to "ALWAYS ON', which I have done and prefer.


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## retrocon (Dec 23, 2015)

Excellent review! And thanks for the simple programming guide.


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## markr6 (Dec 23, 2015)

kreisl said:


> reserved



_"kreisl...table for two!"_


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## ven (Dec 23, 2015)

Outstanding review, wow , your awesome HKJ 

I am very tempted but not sure how beneficial to me, i am a simpleton, stick my cells in, charge em up kind of guy Odd refresh, odd V check with MM etc........ I just dont know if i would benefit with all the bells and whistles, but i change my mind enough :laughing: so will not rule out as i like to freshen up my chargers like i do cells and lights!!!

I dont know if i would have the patience with the programming, do i on a personal level really need that level of detail(do i need 1/2 the stuff i have though so forget that comment).

Jury out for now, see what 2016 brings, but if i decide on another, this is at the top right now

Thanks for your hard work,astonishing level of detail as always!


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## ChrisGarrett (Dec 23, 2015)

Thanks for the review HKJ, once again.

Here's my take on the MC3000 all-in-wonder super-charger:

There are plenty of bugs and sticking points with labels and whatnot, that waiting for a couple/few months for things to get sorted out, is prudent.

Apart from a few opinions on thermal heat management, after more than a few hours/days of testing, the MC3000 looks to be the most flexible, most precise and most complicated charger for a consumer hobbyist, even exceeding the vaunted 'hobby charger' class.

If one isn't going to fiddle with the advanced, or middle mode, this charger isn't for them.

If one is computer/electronics challenged, or if one is just a lazy person and doesn't like to push buttons--a lot of them, this charger isn't for them (I'm talking to all of you Maha C9000 bashers out there!)

For most casual li-ion/NiMH users, who like a bit more info than just voltage, or capacity, the Opus BT-3100/BT-3400 v. 2.2 might be less complicated, but still render the requisite info for people wanting more than my VP2/VC4 provide, but not that much more, where their brain is going to explode. 

I don't think that I'd go hooking this thing up to my PC Win. 7 64bit box until some more people fall on their swords and things get sorted out.

As with the earlier Opus BT 3100s/BT3400s, a reoccurring problem is the fan crapping out after X, Y or Z weeks. I don't know if the PSU for the SkyRC is built well, or not, but I'd like a few more weeks, months of actual use to see what is failing, if anything is failing.

I got bit jumping on my Xtar VP2 early on, so realizing that it's usually the pioneers who take the first arrows, I'm going to wait.

Chris


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## HKJ (Dec 23, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> If one is computer/electronics challenged, or if one is just a lazy person and doesn't like to push buttons--a lot of them, this charger isn't for them (I'm talking to all of you Maha C9000 bashers out there!)



After you have made the programs there is a lot less button pushing on the MC3000, than on the C9000. Generally when you have made the programs the MC3000 is very easy to use, but you might need the list of program on paper and there is no automated way to do that.

Yesterday and today I ran through a lot of my batteries, re-filling and re-emptying them, it worked fine. Many flattop cells had to be moved to the top of the slot, but I did not need a magnet for any of them.


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## ChrisGarrett (Dec 23, 2015)

HKJ said:


> After you have made the programs there is a lot less button pushing on the MC3000, than on the C9000. Generally when you have made the programs the MC3000 is very easy to use, but you might need the list of program on paper and there is no automated way to do that.
> 
> Yesterday and today I ran through a lot of my batteries, re-filling and re-emptying them, it worked fine. Many flattop cells had to be moved to the top of the slot, but I did not need a magnet for any of them.



I didn't even mention the 'flat top' issue that you disclosed in your review and since I pretty much use mostly flat tops, how much 'tinkering' do you have to do to get them to make contact in the MC3000 and how did they forget to place some sort of bump on the positive contact pad?

On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being 'easy as pie' and 1 being 'hard as hell' to make contact and keep them put, how would you rate the flaw?

I'm sure that somebody like you, in your business, will think these chargers are a 'God send' and perhaps they are, but you're a rare and smart bird when it comes to this stuff, but I'm sure that most of us here will think it's all Greek.

Maybe the CPFer living in Greece will be happy, but I bet this charger is over the heads of a lot of people here, who are casual users.

Remember, it's always fun to tinker with new toys in the beginning and then the novelty slowly wears off.

Chris


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## HKJ (Dec 23, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> I didn't even mention the 'flat top' issue that you disclosed in your review and since I pretty much use mostly flat tops, how much 'tinkering' do you have to do to get them to make contact in the MC3000 and how did they forget to place some sort of bump on the positive contact pad?
> 
> On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being 'easy as pie' and 1 being 'hard as hell' to make contact and keep them put, how would you rate the flaw?



Very close to 'easy as pie' when you know how (There will probably be some cells that needs a magnet):







They have a bump on the plus pole, the problem is that it goes from top to bottom. This is fine for handling different diameters, but not as good for flat tops.



ChrisGarrett said:


> I'm sure that somebody like you, in your business, will think these chargers are a 'God send' and perhaps they are, but you're a rare and smart bird when it comes to this stuff, but I'm sure that most of us here will think it's all Greek.
> 
> Maybe the CPFer living in Greece will be happy, but I bet this charger is over the heads of a lot of people here, who are casual users.



If you are without some technical flair I will not recommend this charger. If stuff like programming VCR (only valid for older guys) or using a smart phone scares you, then it is probably not the right charger.



ChrisGarrett said:


> Remember, it's always fun to tinker with new toys in the beginning and then the novelty slowly wears off.



With this charger it was an easy decision to replace the hobby chargers and the C9000, the hard one was the Xtars, they are so easy and fast to use for charging a few LiIon cells, but in the end the MC3000 will probably be just as easy most of the time, because I will leave two channels on the LiIon charge program when possible, i.e. I only have to press enter to start charging.


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## Gauss163 (Dec 23, 2015)

HKJ said:


> After you have made the programs there is a lot less button pushing on the MC3000, than on the C9000. Generally when you have made the programs the MC3000 is very easy to use, but you might need the list of program on paper and there is no automated way to do that.



SkyRC should extend the software to allow export/import of programs, so that users can exchange programs. This would make it much more accessible to those that are averse to programming.


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## HKJ (Dec 23, 2015)

Gauss163 said:


> SkyRC should extend the software to allow export/import of programs, so that users can exchange programs. This would make it much more accessible to those that are averse to programming.




I would like a couple of extension in that regards:
Save all 30 programs on a PC.
Copy all 30 program from a PC to a charge (Not necessary the same charge).
Edit program on a PC (We already have that, but cannot save the result).
The easiest way to export programs would be as a couple of text lines, that could be posted on a forum or in a email, then pasted into a text field in the program for parsing into a program (No files, it is too little information for files).

What I am talking about is basically this list here:
 BATT TYPE: LiIon, Eneloop, NiZn, NiCd, NiMH, LiIo4.35, LiFe
MODE: Charge, Cycle, Discharge, Storage, Break_in, Refresh
CAPACITY: Off .. 50000mAh
NOMINAL: 100mAh .. 50000mAh
MODEL: Std AA, Std AAA, Pro/XX AA, Pro/XX AAA, Lite AA, Lite AAA, Plus AA, Std C, Std D
C.CURRENT: 0.05A .. 3A
D.CURRENT: -0.05A .. -2A
C.RESTING: 0 .. 240min
D.RESTING: 0 .. 240min
CYCLE COUNT: 1 .. 99
CYCLE MODE: C>D, D>C>D, D>C, C>D>C
TARGET VOLTAGE:
DELTA PEAK: 0dv, 1mV .. 20mV
TRICKLE C: Off, 10mA .. 300mA
TERMINATION: Zero, 0.01 .. 0.99A, off
RESTART VOLTAGE:
D.REDUCE: Off, -0.01A .. -1.99A
CUT VOLTAGE: 
CUT TEMP: Off, 20°C .. 70°C
CUT TIME: Off, 1 .. 1440 min
With one setting on each line and unused settings removed.


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## JB (Dec 23, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> I'm sure that somebody like you, in your business, will think these chargers are a 'God send' and perhaps they are, but you're a rare and smart bird when it comes to this stuff, but I'm sure that most of us here will think it's all Greek.
> 
> Maybe the CPFer living in Greece will be happy, but I bet this charger is over the heads of a lot of people here, who are casual users.



Indeed the charger is probably overkill for the vast majority of users.

It's not only a matter of the button pushing and making the programs (which at the end of day really isn't that difficult), but also a matter of knowing and understanding what all the parameters mean and how to set them correctly to achieve your objective.

For those who like to delve into the nitty-gritty of battery charging and discharging, it is very instructive and learning to fully use this charger is also a lesson in knowing charging parameters.

That said, once the initial learning is over and you've setup some programs, the charger is not difficult to use.


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## gyzmo2002 (Dec 23, 2015)

JB said:


> Indeed the charger is probably overkill for the vast majority of users.
> 
> It's not only a matter of the button pushing and making the programs (which at the end of day really isn't that difficult), but also a matter of knowing and understanding what all the parameters mean and how to set them correctly to achieve your objective.
> 
> ...



That's the reason I bought this charger. My opus 3100 does what I need but I want to learn how it is done and what to do to get the job done correctly. That's why I will use the advanced mode in the mc3000 at starting.


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## clintb (Dec 23, 2015)

If SkyRC really wants to have a look at software control done right, they need to look at CCS (Charge Control Software) from FMA, and specifically on the Powerlab 8. I own one of those, and once I got the hang of things, it was super easy to build and pick my own programs.


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## DeanW8 (Dec 24, 2015)

double post


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## DeanW8 (Dec 24, 2015)

HKJ said:


> [SIZE=+2]Conclusion[/SIZE]
> 
> This charger can handle many chemistries and many battery sizes and in addition to this it has a good precision, all of this is way above any other (consumer) charger on the market at the current time.
> Using the safety functions (Capacity, time, temperature) it is very easy to add a extra layer of safety to the charge process and due to the programs it only has to be configured once and then it will be active for all charging of the battery type.
> ...


Conclusion section does not seem very balanced - you have a criticism list but you don't have a praise list.

You put all the emphasis on the criticism, listing 12 of them (some of which appear to be very minor), placing each one in its separate line, while condensing all of the positive things into a single sentence.


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## ChrisGarrett (Dec 24, 2015)

DeanW8 said:


> Conclusion section does not seem very balanced - you have a criticism list but you don't have a praise list.
> 
> You put all the emphasis on the criticism, listing 12 of them (some of which appear to be very minor), placing each one in its separate line, while condensing all of the positive things into a single sentence.



I think that you need to really read the review and read HKJ's comments usually after a picture, to see that he's pretty stoked about this charger. I'm sure that the local tattoo parlor has already worked out a design for H.. 

While there are some issues to be worked out, I got the impression that this is a very good charger, but I needed to read the entire review, carefully and then reread it some more.

Chris


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## andrewnewman (Dec 24, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> While there are some issues to be worked out, I got the impression that this is a very good charger, but I needed to read the entire review, carefully and then reread it some more.
> 
> Chris



Yes! This is absolutely a ground-breaking charger. It's also brand new and quite complex. Assuming the maker works through some of the rough spots, I will almost certainly get one. I will wait out the holiday season, the Chinese New Year and most of the rest of winter, however, before pulling the trigger.


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## HKJ (Dec 24, 2015)

DeanW8 said:


> Conclusion section does not seem very balanced - you have a criticism list but you don't have a praise list.
> 
> You put all the emphasis on the criticism, listing 12 of them (some of which appear to be very minor), placing each one in its separate line, while condensing all of the positive things into a single sentence.



Try reading my praise: "all of this is way above any other (consumer) charger on the market at the current time."

I do not believe I need to say much more, but I want people to be aware that there is a couple of (small) issues, even though I say "very good" (I do not do that very often).
If there had been anything affecting the charging, the rating had not been that positive. If I had rated the different modes, neither dummy or simple would get more than good, they often have issues with the current software.


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## chewy78 (Dec 24, 2015)

HKJ said:


> Try reading my praise: "all of this is way above any other (consumer) charger on the market at the current time."
> 
> I do not believe I need to say much more, but I want people to be aware that there is a couple of (small) issues, even though I say "very good" (I do not do that very often).
> If there had been anything affecting the charging, the rating had not been that positive. If I had rated the different modes, neither dummy or simple would get more than good, they often have issues with the current software.



lol yupp they do have "small issues " when you get a blank screen like i have on mine that gearbest is giving me the run around for warranty work.


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## HKJ (Dec 24, 2015)

chewy78 said:


> lol yupp they do have "small issues " when you get a blank screen like i have on mine that gearbest is giving me the run around for warranty work.



One thing is small issues, another thing is a defect charger. On any product there will be a small percent of defect products, what is interesting is how the seller handles it.


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## Viking (Dec 24, 2015)

Issues and bugs are very important for consumers to know about. Personally I'm glad HKJ highlighted those issues, and frankly I'm puzzled anybody outside the company or distributors have a problem in this regard.
When issues are highlighted it also makes it easier for either Kreisl or Skyrc to get an overview of what needs to be fixed.

And finally, reading the review I get the complete opposite impression, that HKJ are infact very satisfied and positive overall for this unit. Not that possitive ratings are in any way a benchmark for good reviews, negativ ratings and conclusions are just as helpfull. Actually I start to get a little suspicious if either all or to many reviews end up with a positive rating for _any_ reviewer.
But I find it a little ironic someone "accuses" HKJ for being unbalanced in a negative point of view, when this review is actually one the most positive ones I can recall reading. He even mention this charger will take the place for nearly all of his other chargers in the future 

Please keep on your good work HKJ, and also focus on bugs and issues next time, as any honest and competent reviewer will do. Unfortunately too many reviewers are in the pocket of the industry, which is reflected in their overly possitive ratings and conclusions.


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## HKJ (Dec 24, 2015)

Viking said:


> But I find it a little ironic someone "accuses" HKJ for being unbalanced in a negative point of view



I can see his point, the issues takes up a lot of space in the conclusion and I do not use much space on the positive sides, but my reviews will always be that way: When everything works, there is not much to say or list, but anything that do not work, will requiring writing.


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## Viking (Dec 24, 2015)

That is also my believe. It is much more meaningful to emphasize things that doesn't work than things that does. Thinks that works as advertised shall of course be mentioned too, but they don't need to get emphasized in the same manner.
Bugs and issues is something you don't expect in the same way as a customer.


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## Vortus (Dec 24, 2015)

How long does it take to do a full refresh on a D cell nimh or 32650? Had hoped it would do four C/D or 26/32650-700. Would make a nice supplement to our current chargers, but concerned at how long it might be tied up only doing two cells at a time. Though not fitting inside, any reason for it to have issues if using magnets and wires to do four larger cells at a time? Is there any sort of cap that would cause issues if doing even larger lifepo4 cells like 38140s.


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## HKJ (Dec 24, 2015)

Vortus said:


> How long does it take to do a full refresh on a D cell nimh or 32650? Had hoped it would do four C/D or 26/32650-700. Would make a nice supplement to our current chargers, but concerned at how long it might be tied up only doing two cells at a time. Though not fitting inside, any reason for it to have issues if using magnets and wires to do four larger cells at a time? Is there any sort of cap that would cause issues if doing even larger lifepo4 cells like 38140s.



Using 2A you can charge or discharge a 10000mAh NiMH cell in 5 hours.
It is possible to extend the connections, but you will get higher resistance. I do not expect you will have any serious problems with charging/discharging.
As you can see in my parameter list, it can handle up to 50000mAh, but you will probably have problems with terminating NiMH.


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## Viking (Dec 24, 2015)

HKJ said:


> As you can see in my parameter list, it can handle up to 50000mAh, but you will probably have problems with terminating NiMH.



But that is one of the great features with this charger, he could set a voltage cut off termination or timing, to make sure no overcharge is done. or couldn't he ?


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## HKJ (Dec 25, 2015)

Viking said:


> But that is one of the great features with this charger, he could set a voltage cut off termination or timing, to make sure no overcharge is done. or couldn't he ?



Exactly, but if using time he will not get any statistic for the battery, just a "Timer cut"


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## DeanW8 (Dec 25, 2015)

HKJ said:


> Try reading my praise: "all of this is way above any other (consumer) charger on the market at the current time."
> 
> I do not believe I need to say much more, but I want people to be aware that there is a couple of (small) issues, even though I say "very good" (I do not do that very often).
> If there had been anything affecting the charging, the rating had not been that positive. If I had rated the different modes, neither dummy or simple would get more than good, they often have issues with the current software.


Quoting that single sentence (that talks about battery support and precision) doesn't disprove anything I have said. It is about emphasis and volume, 90% of the conclusion section is about charger's flaws, even the things that should be mentioned under its advantages.

For example, instead of listing the PC analyzing ability under the pros of the charger, since it is a feature that 99% of the round cell chargers don't have, it was listed under the flaws of the charger because of some minor issues with the software.

Despite the positive rating the entire conclusion strikes me unbalanced, mentioning every flaw and issue with the charger, while barely mentioning any of the pros and unique features.

I am not implying you did that with malice, because you praised the charger elsewhere.

But if I had just read the conclusion I would have never guessed that you like the charger so much that you replaced your other chargers with it.



ChrisGarrett said:


> I think that you need to really read the review and read HKJ's comments usually after a picture, to see that he's pretty stoked about this charger. I'm sure that the local tattoo parlor has already worked out a design for H..
> 
> While there are some issues to be worked out, I got the impression that this is a very good charger, but I needed to read the entire review, carefully and then reread it some more.


I have read the entire review and all the comments before posting. But one should not need to read everything, and many people don't, just to understand the reviewers opinion on the product.


----------



## HKJ (Dec 25, 2015)

DeanW8 said:


> But if I had just read the conclusion I would have never guessed that you like the charger so much that you replaced your other chargers with it.



The fact that I replaced my other chargers do have a lot to do with how I uses the chargers, not many people has the same usage pattern. Of course it also had to be a good charger, or I would not have replace any of my chargers.

It do sound like it is the first time you read one of my reviews, it helps when you understand what I mean when I call a product "very good".


----------



## Vortus (Dec 25, 2015)

Thanks. Missed the capacity line. Great review.


----------



## bob_ninja (Dec 27, 2015)

Thanks for great review HKJ.
Considering all the information/data that it deals with, would you say that it could use a bigger display? Seems at times it is unable to show enough due to small screen.


----------



## HKJ (Dec 27, 2015)

bob_ninja said:


> Thanks for great review HKJ.
> Considering all the information/data that it deals with, would you say that it could use a bigger display? Seems at times it is unable to show enough due to small screen.



I would have like a bigger display or higher resolution display, but except for my single complain, the interface works fairly well.


----------



## retrocon (Jan 3, 2016)

I'm fairly new in this space, but comfortable with coding in general. My thought, in addition to saving to a PC, it seems like it should be possible to add a parameter to "execute program X on completion" and allow multiple programs to execute in sequence. For example, have a charge program, upon an exception free completion, run a top off Program, or do variable cycles. Just curious if you experts think this would be of value, or would have reservations against it?


----------



## HKJ (Jan 3, 2016)

retrocon said:


> I'm fairly new in this space, but comfortable with coding in general. My thought, in addition to saving to a PC, it seems like it should be possible to add a parameter to "execute program X on completion" and allow multiple programs to execute in sequence. For example, have a charge program, upon an exception free completion, run a top off Program, or do variable cycles. Just curious if you experts think this would be of value, or would have reservations against it?



There is not that many cases where you really need to use multiple programs and what about the data when you use more than one program?
Adding top-off settings to NiMH might be a better solution.


----------



## retrocon (Jan 3, 2016)

HKJ said:


> There is not that many cases where you really need to use multiple programs and what about the data when you use more than one program?
> Adding top-off settings to NiMH might be a better solution.



That makes perfect sense. I guess the dynamics of battery chemistry are reasonably finite, so designing in a bunch of flexibility is just overkill. Again, thanks for the great review!


----------



## ko4nrbs (Jan 3, 2016)

DeanW8 said:


> Quoting that single sentence (that talks about battery support and precision) doesn't disprove anything I have said. It is about emphasis and volume, 90% of the conclusion section is about charger's flaws, even the things that should be mentioned under its advantages.
> 
> For example, instead of listing the PC analyzing ability under the pros of the charger, since it is a feature that 99% of the round cell chargers don't have, it was listed under the flaws of the charger because of some minor issues with the software.
> 
> ...



I can only imagine how many hours HKJ put into testing the MC-3000. It takes a lot of work disassembling the charger, taking the pictures, performing the tests, etc. Let's factor all this in as we read the review and reflect on it's contents.

I know of no one else who provides this much detailed information all free of charge. In addition he is much more than a casual user like most of us so the reviews are accurate and contain back up data to confirm his findings. 

Bill


----------



## -Archie- (Jan 5, 2016)

ko4nrbs said:


> I can only imagine how many hours HKJ put into testing the MC-3000.



+1. Great review!


----------



## samgab (Jan 7, 2016)

Another great, in depth review, thanks for your hard work HKJ! Based on this, I ordered this charger today, so I look forward to seeing how it performs. 

I've had my C9000 for several years now, but this charger brings some new more modern features to the table. I also have an iCharger hobby charger with PC connectivity, but it's much simpler having the 4 cylindrical cell holders built into the charger unit, and the bluetooth chip/iPhone app mean I don't have to have a cable plugged into my laptop all the time. It would be good if the bluetooth could connect to a laptop too, to interact with the PC software, rather than having to use the USB cable. I'm not sure if that is possible, or if the bluetooth can only talk to an android/iOS device...
But one good thing about this charger is that extra functionality can be added, and bugs squashed, by means of firmware updates.


----------



## kreisl (Jan 16, 2016)

Is a new android app version out today?

I can't check, i am too busy with bugs looking.


----------



## Zanders (Jan 16, 2016)

kreisl said:


> Is a new android app version out today?
> 
> I can't check, i am too busy with bugs looking.




Yes, but I haven´t tried it out yet.

Edit: Tried to make a new programing two times, crashed both.


----------



## gyzmo2002 (Jan 17, 2016)

Why we cannot change D and C reduce in storage mode?

When the charger reach the voltage, ex3.70v, it drops from 1A to 0 and stops the cycle. The voltage increase to 3.85v after.


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## kreisl (Jan 17, 2016)

in firmware 1.03 this was fixed.


----------



## gyzmo2002 (Jan 17, 2016)

kreisl said:


> in firmware 1.03 this was fixed.



Do we have access to 1.03? I know it has been remove some days ago.


----------



## kreisl (Jan 17, 2016)

gyzmo2002 said:


> Do we have access to 1.03? I know it has been remove some days ago.



file was deleted from server


----------



## usrnam (Jan 17, 2016)

I been thinking of purchasing this charger in part because if it's PC connection and software capabilities. 

After installing the software application (MC3000 Monitor), I could not find any way to resize the program's display. The bottom part of application window is cut-off from the user. The window can be moved but not resized. Window re-sizing is normally a basic requirement for most GUI applications.

_________________________________

Currently going for $89.95 with free shipping. 



http://www.gearbest.com/chargers/pp_260893.html?vip=94615


----------



## kreisl (Jan 17, 2016)

You can try DEX for logging. Instead of PCLS.


----------



## tjh (Jan 17, 2016)

This review is also why I bit the bullet and bought one.
Waiting for it to arrive now, go go go shipping.

It's a shame that the current software requires a massive window you can't resize - given that it's had issues updating firmware with Windows 7+, I hope they are working on an improved version with better resizing and better updating capabilities.


----------



## gyzmo2002 (Jan 17, 2016)

Does somebody know the settings that the Opus 3100 use for the charge test C>D>C named refresh on the mc3000?

I try to figure out why the Opus gives a higher capacity than cell rated instead of the mc3000 that gives more logical measures. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/389732


----------



## light-wolff (Jan 17, 2016)

gyzmo2002 said:


> I try to figure out why the Opus gives a higher capacity than cell rated instead of the mc3000 that gives more logical measures.


Because the Opus has a crappy circuit and doesn't use real DC, but pulsed current, which makes accurate measurements very difficult.


----------



## gyzmo2002 (Jan 17, 2016)

light-wolff said:


> Because the Opus has a crappy circuit and doesn't use real DC, but pulsed current, which makes accurate measurements very difficult.



I like this kind of answer. Thank you light-wolff.


----------



## tatasal (Jan 17, 2016)

light-wolff said:


> Because the Opus has a crappy circuit and doesn't use real DC, but pulsed current, which makes accurate measurements very difficult.



Well, in my experience with discharge capacity measurements, I once made a comparative test to measure the discharge capacity of my brand-new Panasonic NCR18650PF cell by using two chargers. One the Opus BT-C3100 v2.1 versus my iCharger 106B+, both on the same cut-off voltage of 3V.

The discharge capacities on the same cell between the two chargers had a difference of only 8 mAh.

...and to make the comparison fair, on both charging session the specific cell used in the tests was charged by my Xtar VP2.

This week I might be receiving my MC3000 and if time permits will be doing the same tests.


----------



## usrnam (Jan 18, 2016)

kreisl said:


> You can try DEX for logging. Instead of PCLS.




I wasn't able to recall DEX. You mean the DataExplore. I remember trying to use this program with a balance charger.

http://www.nongnu.org/dataexplorer/

There is another data logging program that's more difficult to setup and install. I'm uncertain of MC3000 compatibility.

Logview

http://www.logview.info/forum/index.php?resources/categories/download.4/


----------



## kreisl (Jan 18, 2016)

usrnam said:


> What is DEX and PCLS? I can't recall their meaning as I've seen many terms using the same abreviations.


Shame on the squirrel 
Both are silly yet practical abbreviations, the manual is full of such, introduced by me.

PCLS = PC Link Software = the official pc link software made by Sky for mc3k. i think the original name is mc3000 monitor. logs with 1Hz and data can be trusted.
DEX = DataExplorer = the third-party open project freeware pc link software which includes growing support for mc3k. logs with 1Hz.

My focus of testing and finding bugs has been 98% on the device firmware so far


----------



## usrnam (Jan 18, 2016)

kreisl said:


> Shame on the squirrel
> Both are silly yet practical abbreviations, the manual is full of such, introduced by me.
> 
> PCLS = PC Link Software = the official pc link software made by Sky for mc3k. i think the original name is mc3000 monitor. logs with 1Hz and data can be trusted.
> ...



I finally found and related the abbreviated meanings. I sometimes don't rely on abbreviations. After many years of using various same abbreviations with different meanings. I sometimes have difficulty remembering them and sorting them out.

I already ordered a BT-C3100 so I'm going to use the Opus for a while to determine charging functionalities and behaviors. The programming features of the MC3000 has advanages of modifying other charging parameters while providing a better battery analysis. My solar charger has similar functions that allows a user to view, modify and download charging paramenters from a connected PC. Which I find beneficial while trying to maintain batteries.

If the BT-C3100's fan becomes a problem I'm considering a different type of 25x25 mm replacement fan.

Do you know of any specifications such as fan type, voltage and amps for the Opus MT-C3100 and SkyRC MT3000? Fan type and construction makes a difference in how well a fan performs as well as dB noise factors.


----------



## gyzmo2002 (Jan 18, 2016)

usrnam said:


> I finally found and related the abbreviated meanings. I sometimes don't rely on abbreviations. After many years of using various same abbreviations with different meanings. I sometimes have difficulty remembering them and sorting them out.
> 
> I already ordered a BT-C3100 so I'm going to use the Opus for a while to determine charging functionalities and behaviors. The programming features of the MC3000 has advanages of modifying other charging parameters while providing a better battery analysis. My solar charger has similar functions that allows a user to view, modify and download charging paramenters from a connected PC. Which I find beneficial while trying to maintain batteries.
> 
> ...



When I bought the Opus, I bought a spare replacement fan. I have no problem with the fan. 

If you want to compare the Opus in a charge tes C>D>C with the Mc3000, you could go to this thread:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/389732

Start at #255


----------



## usrnam (Jan 20, 2016)

gyzmo2002 said:


> When I bought the Opus, I bought a spare replacement fan. I have no problem with the fan.
> 
> If you want to compare the Opus in a charge tes C>D>C with the Mc3000, you could go to this thread:
> 
> ...



I just received my Opus and in the process of charging and testing a couple dozen 18650's and some aged AA Energizers (NiMH).

Results have varied. Voltage is only one factor in determining cell charging finalization. A final voltage is know as a voltage threshold based on a percentage of current drop. Though I do take votage readings while a battery is charging. Soc (state of charge) evaluation is best accomplished after a cell has been removed from a charger and had time to settle. 

My 18650 cells finalize at different voltages depending on a cell's condition. I'm not certain why a Lithium cell is ending up at 4.22 volts above 4.20. Having a lower finalized voltage is actually better for a lithium cells life expectancy. Not to charge Lithium's to their full capacity will increase service life. 

So far only some cells have finalized at 4.20 and settled after removing from the charger at 4.19. While others have finalized at lower voltages. DMM measurements have match the charger's finalized voltages from "Full". 

While charging, cell voltages taken from a DMM are normally higher or lower than a cell's actual voltage as the charger using PWM, pulsing low and then high then low again to maintain a CC/CV charge.

What's important for a fuller capacity is the amount of ion saturation that occurs. Cells charged with higher saturation will maintain higher cell voltages longer. There's a delicate balance during finalization as Li-ons unable to accept overcharging, finalization of charging needs to be done quickly as possible.

This may be one area where PWM CC/CV charging differs. Pulse width modulation is a frequency normally in Khz, which has an effect on a battery chemistry and ions. To simply state pulse PWM CC/CV charging is inferior to non-pulse CC/CV and other methodologies is sort of redundant with little or no scientific reasoning. 

I have an older analog oscilloscope I could connect to perform further tests. However most tests with published results have already been done in regards to the Opus charger. I normally do DMM voltage measurements just after a cell has been removed from a charger and then again after a cell has had time to settle.

___________________________

I'm still considering ordering a SkyRC MC3000 as soon as stock for US plug is available.

Currently US Plug is "Out of Stock" 

EU Plug - "In Stock": http://www.gearbest.com/chargers/pp_260893.html?vip=94615

I found two "Free Shipping" options. 

One 10 - 25 day flat rate shipping that included tracking for free.

The second Free Shipping option was listed as a "5 - 7 business days Priority Direct Mail - America Direct Express." I wasn't able to find a website for "America Direct Express". When ordering from Gearbest you need to make certain you have at least some sort of tracking. Especially if a package is going to be transferred to USPS. Past orders China Post tracking stopped once reaching the US. Adding tracking to an order included USPS tracking. 

Perhaps because of Customs, some packages may become delayed for a week or more after reaching the US.

More expensive items I would recommend adding insurance to an order.
_____

I found items using carrier "Swedish Surface Mail" (tracking number prefixes of SGLBZ and Q.)

Can be tracked from Beishisheng Logistics website: 

http://www.sky56.cn/english/track/index


----------



## johnc847 (Jan 22, 2016)

Will this do everything the la crosse bc1000 can do? Just bought the bc1000 and noticed it gets to hot and pauses. Then I discovered this forum. Debating on returning the bc1000 and buying this is it will do everything the la crosse can.


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## tjh (Jan 22, 2016)

johnc847 said:


> Will this do everything the la crosse bc1000 can do? Just bought the bc1000 and noticed it gets to hot and pauses. Then I discovered this forum. Debating on returning the bc1000 and buying this is it will do everything the la crosse can.


Yes.
And then some.
It's the most advanced charger on the market at the moment I believe. Consumer charger anyway.


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## johnc847 (Jan 22, 2016)

tjh said:


> Yes.
> And then some.
> It's the most advanced charger on the market at the moment I believe. Consumer charger anyway.



Where is the best place to buy from? I don't even see it on amazon


----------



## tjh (Jan 22, 2016)

johnc847 said:


> Where is the best place to buy from? I don't even see it on amazon


There are only two places. HK Equipment and GearBest.

GearBest is $5 cheaper and everyone complains about them. I'd go with HKE, that's who I bought mine from and it was hassle free.


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## johnc847 (Jan 22, 2016)

Is the fan loud? Know it's a different model but still this is loud. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iibYkJ_Kyxs


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## MarioJP (Jan 22, 2016)

johnc847 said:


> Will this do everything the la crosse bc1000 can do? Just bought the bc1000 and noticed it gets to hot and pauses. Then I discovered this forum. Debating on returning the bc1000 and buying this is it will do everything the la crosse can.


Are you kidding! This charger solved my biggest pet peeve that the la crosse and even the IQ-328 has (i think they are the same hardware minus the slot buttons per bay) I think it is a glitch or a bug. When discharging 4 cells at once at low currents. The voltage slightly dips on a regular intervals. Gets worst when cells are at 1.00v. This slight voltage dip causes the discharge cycle to end prematurely, skewing the results. The workaround to this glitch is to discharge 2 cells at a time lol. Anyways, once you have this charger. That is it, no questions lol. I already used 2 out of 30 programmable slots already lol. Dummy mode is if you just want to set and forget and that you don't care for the advanced stuff.

Hardware wise. Nicely bulit quality. Love how the cells are spaced out. (Thats another issue that la crosse and IQ-328 lack of spacing between bays)

What sealed the deal for me is the app and user defined parameters and can run from 12v supply. But the user defined parameters or programmable slots. That's definetly pushing the bar for a bay charger. Best purchase i ever made. 👍


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## johnc847 (Jan 22, 2016)

MarioJP said:


> Are you kidding! This charger solved my biggest pet peeve that the la crosse and even the IQ-328 has (i think they are the same hardware minus the slot buttons per bay) I think it is a glitch or a bug. When discharging 4 cells at once at low currents. The voltage slightly dips on a regular intervals. Gets worst when cells are at 1.00v. This slight voltage dip causes the discharge cycle to end prematurely, skewing the results. The workaround to this glitch is to discharge 2 cells at a time lol. Anyways, once you have this charger. That is it, no questions lol. I already used 2 out of 30 programmable slots already lol. Dummy mode is if you just want to set and forget and that you don't care for the advanced stuff.
> 
> Hardware wise. Nicely bulit quality. Love how the cells are spaced out. (Thats another issue that la crosse and IQ-328 lack of spacing between bays)
> 
> The what sealed the deal for me is the app and user defined parameters and can run from 12v supply. But the user defined parameters or programmable slots. That's definetly pushing the bar for a bay charger. Best purchase i ever made. [emoji106]



What about noise? See previous post of a video of another model by Skyrc. It is loud.


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## MarioJP (Jan 22, 2016)

johnc847 said:


> What about noise? See previous post of a video of another model by Skyrc. It is loud.


So far the fan has not kicked in yet. But i was able to turn it on in the setup menu to see how it sounds and that it is working properly. It sounds like a laptop cooling pads used to place your laptop on. No high pitch churning lol.


----------



## johnc847 (Jan 22, 2016)

But is is as load as this? When the fan is running? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iibYkJ_Kyxs


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## MarioJP (Jan 22, 2016)

johnc847 said:


> But is is as load as this? When the fan is running? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iibYkJ_Kyxs


Not close. The mc3000 is a bigger charger. The heat dissipates more efficiently, and don't forget, it also charges li-ions as well. So far i am looking into the advanced mode.


----------



## billcushman (Jan 22, 2016)

johnc847 said:


> Will this do everything the la crosse bc1000 can do? Just bought the bc1000 and noticed it gets to hot and pauses. Then I discovered this forum. Debating on returning the bc1000 and buying this is it will do everything the la crosse can.



Welcome to the forum. The La Crosse BC1000 is a low cost economy charger with many compromises and limited capability. The SkyRC MC3000 is an ultra high performance charger/analyzer with massive capability and extreme accuracy. Comparing the two chargers is similar to comparing an economy sports car with the finest Porsche or Ferrari. Please read the excellent review of the MC3000 by HKJ. This will give you a much greater understanding of the MC3000.


----------



## johnc847 (Jan 23, 2016)

billcushman said:


> Welcome to the forum. The La Crosse BC1000 is a low cost economy charger with many compromises and limited capability. The SkyRC MC3000 is an ultra high performance charger/analyzer with massive capability and extreme accuracy. Comparing the two chargers is similar to comparing an economy sports car with the finest Porsche or Ferrari. Please read the excellent review of the MC3000 by HKJ. This will give you a much greater understanding of the MC3000.



So if you just got the la crosse in, would you return it and order the skyrc 3000? Or is there another you'd get? 

One thing that is throwing me off is if the skyrc is a lot better, why can't you find it on amazon like most everything else?


----------



## tjh (Jan 23, 2016)

johnc847 said:


> So if you just got the la crosse in, would you return it and order the skyrc 3000? Or is there another you'd get?
> 
> One thing that is throwing me off is if the skyrc is a lot better, why can't you find it on amazon like most everything else?



It might be time to take your ongoing personal concerns about buying a charger to a new thread? This is getting off topic of the MC3000 review.

However to answer your questions:

1) You still haven't mentioned what your criteria for a charger are. The BC1000 will still charge and discharge your batteries just fine. But as detailed in the review to which you keep replying, the MC3000 is extremely flexible and tweakable. Are you ever going to want to tweak things to that level is what YOU must ask YOURSELF. We can't help you with that. I would suggest before even posting again you read HKJ's reviews of both chargers. And some other chargers too. He is considered "the authoritity" when it comes to reviews. Then you can decide what things are important to you in a charger and then you can *make your own mind about what charger you want to own*. Asking us to decide for you isn't the way to go.

2) This charger was only released ~2 months ago. They have only just received FCC certification. Maybe that's why it's not on Amazon yet. Why this is a deciding factor for you I can't fathom. Again, HKJ's review makes it clear this an excellent charger. It doesn't get any less excellent because you can't buy it from Amazon.

The charger you want to own is a decision you have to make. There is more than enough information on CPF to make this decision, you just _have to invest the time_ to do some reading then come to the decision yourself.

Or at least start a new thread to stop cluttering this one.

[Mods: I am happy for my post to be deleted too if you're cleaning up this thread, ta]


----------



## MarioJP (Jan 23, 2016)

All i have to say is hkj's review is spot on. I been going over his review as a recap and as a guide to make sure i did not miss anything or to get a better clear understanding in case i run into any issues. Thanks for a well done review.[emoji106]


----------



## johnc847 (Jan 23, 2016)

tjh said:


> It might be time to take your ongoing personal concerns about buying a charger to a new thread? This is getting off topic of the MC3000 review.
> 
> However to answer your questions:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply. I plan on making my own decision was just looking for opinions on what y'all would do since you know more. 

It not being on Amazon does not affect my decision. I just didn't understand why it wasn't. Simple question. I'll be sure to start a new thread if I ask for more info in this form. 

Sorry for cluttering this thread. But I thought I did read a few posts comparing this charger to others too. 

Thanks.


----------



## kreisl (Jan 23, 2016)

johnc847 said:


> It not being on Amazon does not affect my decision. I just didn't understand why it wasn't. Simple question.


Now that the device got official FCC accreditation retroactively, it can from now on be sold freely to the USA without restriction. Before, the factory could sell to national vendors only and also didn't mind. Apart from that, Sky does not have a dedicated Skyrc brand distributor in the US, they like to do OEM's and ODM's for that country. 

With this product, the company does not push to make it a profitable success, knowing that it's an expensive product and a niche product. To them it's a fun side project, and to bring joy in the scene, also to get their name out as original designer, not OEM.

In business, it's not always about making money 

The charger may become available on amazon or amazon marketplace but Sky isn't behind it, not their priority.


----------



## write2dgray (Jan 23, 2016)

It will be available there within a week or so .


----------



## kreisl (Jan 23, 2016)

I don't think so. I would know it


----------



## write2dgray (Jan 23, 2016)

Humility is underrated . Suffice to say we are all ignorant of different things.


----------



## Gauss163 (Jan 23, 2016)

@kreisl Perhaps David is giving us a hint that it will be available through his shop ProgressiveRC. That may help alleviate concerns about US warranty service, since ProgressiveRC has a stellar reputation for customer service in the RC community (which agrees with my experience, e.g. recently they quickly and painlessly replaced a defective Junsi PowerLog 6S which was under 1 year warranty). Hopefully the price will be competitive.


----------



## kreisl (Jan 24, 2016)

Here some observation. In my own review , I would include such, of course.

For testing purposes, I am 'lucky' to own a super poor Eneloop AAA cell, datecode Summer 2011. Very high internal resistance (~1000mΩ lol), and hardly good for any application. All my chargers have trouble charging it. In the MC3000, a charging rate of 0.50A or higher (e.g. the 0.70A default in Dummy Mode) will return a "Connection Break!"-error when the charging current ramps up to the 0.50A charge rate. Probably that's because the on-load voltage has surpassed an internal threshold (protection) at which the slot cuts the connection?

Anyway, the error is interesting. Unexpected. 
( i would have preferred a BAD BATTERY error message, i am listing it under_ k#23_ )

However, charging that poor battery with a 0.40A rate or lower will not produce that abnormal program termination. Also interesting, charging the poor cell with 0dV parameter terminated properly at that rate, sweet!

What's the point of this very post?

It is to inform the reader that an unexpected "Connection Break!"-error does not mean that something's wrong with the slot. Of course, people would eventually come to such a conclusion on their own, once they try to charge other batteries in the slot or experiment with the charge rate on their own.

In summary, if a battery is really poor, not only MH-C9000 (*HI6H* error) and other chargers will have trouble charging it but also MC3000. Beware.

Good point. Thanks kreisl. Welcome. 

( Inversely, something similar could happen with super low IR very good Eneloop Pro batteries, the slot could throw a SHORT CIRCUIT error message. Falsely so. )


----------



## tjh (Jan 24, 2016)

kreisl said:


> ( i would have preferred a BAD BATTERY error message, maybe i should list it under _k#23_? )



I think this is a grand idea. I believe that things should be simple to operate and have clear messages, this certainly seems like a better message than connection break.


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## MarioJP (Jan 24, 2016)

tjh said:


> I think this is a grand idea. I believe that things should be simple to operate and have clear messages, this certainly seems like a better message than connection break.


Is that what connection break is. I was testing some seriously abused energizer cells that was in my multimeter, which give a low batt status on the meter. Thought would test how the charger reacts to bad cells. I would start the charging process, charges for a few seconds and not long after the charger will do 2 following things. The snb led would turn green or would see connection break on the lcd.. I ended just tossing the cells.


----------



## kreisl (Jan 24, 2016)

yeah, green snb led would mean that the program finished normally. a program on a bad cell can finish very fast, see MH-C9000 behavior on bad cells . termination criteria like cut-off voltage or target voltage are reached fast due to the high internal resistance which causes a high voltage step at high charge (or discharge) rates. so that's explained by that.

the connection break is not easily explained by me, the maker would know the internals (code) and the explanation. but it is something like what i said. when the onload voltage surpasses an internal threshold, the slot breaks the connection (for 'safety reasons') and throws a Break Connection message.

If you try to charge with a _low_ current, you'll see that there will be no Break Connection message.


----------



## MarioJP (Jan 25, 2016)

kreisl said:


> If you try to charge with a _low_ current, you'll see that there will be no Break Connection message.



Yeah, i tried that, even went as low as it can go. This only makes it last longer before the connection break error occurs. I am surprised how the DMM was able to function and it has lasted pretty long time too. The meter is a radioshack brand 2 AA's. so efficient that i even forgot that i had enegizers left. Very impressed by this digital multimeter.


----------



## kreisl (Jan 25, 2016)

MarioJP said:


> This only makes it last longer before the connection break error occurs.


I was able to charge (all) my super bad NiMH batteries with low currents and proper 0dV termination. No connection break error.


----------



## MarioJP (Jan 25, 2016)

Thats what i did not change is the dv setting. Just left it at 3dv


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## kreisl (Jan 25, 2016)




----------



## C & R (Feb 22, 2016)

HKJ I wanted to take a moment to thank you for your technical review. I can only imagine the time that you spend to create reviews like this one. It has helped me to select this as my next charger.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 22, 2016)

The more hardware faults you find in this charger the less i want to buy it.

*On another subject.*

The £(UK Pound) is lowest against the $(US Dollar) in 9 years, So now is the time to buy anything from the UK, like Crumpets or English Mustard.

John.


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## kreisl (Feb 22, 2016)

tell us the hardware faults you've found in your mc3k unit

i didn't find any in mine

i win

bye


----------



## HKJ (Feb 22, 2016)

kreisl said:


> tell us the hardware faults you've found in your mc3k unit



They may not be faults, but issues:

1) Not all cells make contact when placed at the bottom of the slots.
2) Charger cannot do a full power discharge, it often has to reduce current (Fixed in current production version).
3) USB is unstable, this may be a hardware issue (Especially because a very good cable will mostly fix it).


1) Is probably difficult to fix for all cell sizes/types.
2) Is fixed and can be fixed on first generation chargers with a hardware modification, but do not really matter in most cases.
3) Can be problematic for people that want to log.


None of it prevents it from being a very good charger/analyzer.


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## kreisl (Feb 22, 2016)

Thanks. 

I got a premium-like 1m data cable the other day and my Tomo powerbank LCD showed 1.75A transfer rate, which i found amazing for a 1m cable being a _data _cable! But the more often i plugged and unplugged it the rate dropped significantly (compared to 30cm _charge_ cables), down to 0.30-0.50A. My only logical explanation for the performance drop is the degradation of the USB connectors on the "premium" cable. What a shame!, since the cable itself (=everything but the connectors) _is_ premium, i can tell and i know it. I am in contact with the seller and the cable manufacturer.

Now for logging data and transferring firmware with mc3k i use a new FT braided USB data cable. It has high resistance, slow transfer rate, but at least that slow rate is stable, now matter how often i repeat the plug test. Before ppl point at my cable recommendations when they brick their chargers with the cable, i better **** the **** up and don't recommend any cables on the forum haha.

But i guess it's true .. one could mess up things (interrupted data logging, bricked chargers) with a poor quality USB cable. Especially during firmware transfer one needs to make sure that the transfer happens in a reliable stable way. Ppl should gather much experience with PCLS data logging (with their USB cable) *first*, before they decide to use that particular USB cable for firmware updating. And, to be on the safe side, no other USB device (like USB printer/fax/scanner/copier/etc) should be connected to the PC and or mc3k *during* the fw updating procedure.

Last night i submitted bug reports re 1.04c fw, all of minor nature (k#33-37), and if it continues like that, 1.04 will never reach final release status lol. Maybe when we reach the end of the alphabet, 1.04z, we'll think 'ah wth **** **' and release that as final 1.04.

Anyway, 1.04 is nice. So many little things which got corrected. AUTO fan works now as expected, finally


----------



## xdriver (Feb 24, 2016)

It appears this is the newest and "best" charger currently out there for a consumer but I would like advice on purchasing a charger if possible. I Have about 50AA eneloops that I typically charge in a maha c808m and have no problems with it. I let the charger do its thing and am happy with it. I purchased that charger because it was easy to use, and was a high quality charger that I could walk away from and not worry that something may catch fire. I now have about 100 18650 batteries that have been pulled from various laptop packs and I would like to go through. I intend to use them in a few flashlights and give them to friends for their lights or vape gizmos. Even on the most simple, press the button and forget it, charge mode of the MC3000, is it the best charger out there for the needs of charging and checking 100 18650 batteries? The cost is not an issue, I simply want a proper charge from a safe charger. (I own an Ultrafire WF-139, and would classify that as not the right charger for my needs). That being said, there is mention in this thread that possibly two Xtar VP2 chargers might be a good option if you need 4 bays of charging. Any insight would be much appreciated. I am also willing to provide any additional information that may be needed in helping to make a decision. Thank you.

Edit: While I prefer not to have to dive deep into making my own programs for every battery, I am capable of doing so with instruction, as I am not a "battery guy," but semi technically inclined.


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## kreisl (Feb 24, 2016)

i am having too much fun with this charger that i could give you a fair non-biased recommendation in your case. 

anyone else with a take?


----------



## HKJ (Feb 24, 2016)

For just charging this charger may be a bit too much, a couple of Xtar chargers would probably be a better solution.
But for checking batteries it is very good. Just make a "test 18650" program and assign it to all slots, then it is just putting four batteries in the charger, press the button, wait, read the result.


----------



## Skeeterg (Feb 24, 2016)

WOW, what a charger,and i am with some others. A bit much for me,and the cost to.HKJ,great website btw.


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## xdriver (Feb 24, 2016)

HKJ said:


> For just charging this charger may be a bit too much, a couple of Xtar chargers would probably be a better solution.
> But for checking batteries it is very good. Just make a "test 18650" program and assign it to all slots, then it is just putting four batteries in the charger, press the button, wait, read the result.




Thank you for all the time you take to review chargers and batteries and everything on your site. Do you have a link to a test program for 18650 batteries using this charger, or how you would create one based on knowing that the cells I have are unprotected cells pulled from old laptop packs? Would you put an over discharged cell into the MC3000 and let it determine whether it should charge it or not, or would you test it with a voltage tester first? -As now we are digressing from the review, where should I post these questions to get answers. Thank you.


----------



## HKJ (Feb 24, 2016)

xdriver said:


> Thank you for all the time you take to review chargers and batteries and everything on your site. Do you have a link to a test program for 18650 batteries using this charger, or how you would create one based on knowing that the cells I have are unprotected cells pulled from old laptop packs?



I like to cycle the cell a couple of times, i.e.:
Capacity: a bit more than the cell is supposed to have, for known good cells it can be off
mode: Cycle
C current: 1A
D current: 1A
Cycle count: 3
Cycle mode: C>D>C
Termination: 0.1
D Reduce: off
Cut voltage: 2.8
Cut time: Off

The 3 final values will be close.



xdriver said:


> Would you put an over discharged cell into the MC3000 and let it determine whether it should charge it or not, or would you test it with a voltage tester first?



Put the battery in and read the volt on the MC3000, if it is below 2 volt it goes to recycle bin (i.e. I will not try to charge it).



xdriver said:


> As now we are digressing from the review, where should I post these questions to get answers. Thank you.



Questions related to MC3000 can be posted here or in the other MC3000 thread. 
Or if somebody wants to start sharing programs a new thread would be useful.


----------



## xdriver (Feb 24, 2016)

Thank you, 

I have ordered one from ProgressiveRC on Amazon. I am sure I will have more questions as to settings once the charger arrives.


----------



## tjh (Feb 24, 2016)

xdriver said:


> Thank you,
> 
> I have ordered one from ProgressiveRC on Amazon. I am sure I will have more questions as to settings once the charger arrives.


Read this thread while you wait! It discusses and answers all the questions you'll have, I'm sure.


----------



## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 24, 2016)

morgage or charger, which is more important, if it was morgage or flashlight it would be bought already and i would be shining it around my park bench tonight.

John.


----------



## tjh (Feb 24, 2016)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> morgage or charger, which is more important, if it was morgage or flashlight it would be bought already and i would be shining it around my park bench tonight.
> 
> John.


I don't think it's THAT expensive though, for what it is.
A dedicated XTAR charger that just does Lion is what, half the price of this?

This not only does charging, it discharges/analyses, you can tweak every setting perfectly, set high charge currents for faster charging, plus it charges AAA/AA's, NiZN. It's firmware upgradable so it's future proof (as long as the new battery fits into the slot)

You're getting 5 times the functionality for 2 times the price.

Makes perfect sense I think.


----------



## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 24, 2016)

So where are you guy`s buying them from it`s going to cost me £110/$153

Ebay is £85 from Hong-Kong then add £17 IMPORT TAX + £8 handling charge = £110

EDIT: Going to wait till this charger is available from an UK seller at around the £80 mark.

thanks

John.



tjh said:


> I don't think it's THAT expensive though, for what it is.
> A dedicated XTAR charger that just does Lion is what, half the price of this?
> 
> This not only does charging, it discharges/analyses, you can tweak every setting perfectly, set high charge currents for faster charging, plus it charges AAA/AA's, NiZN. It's firmware upgradable so it's future proof (as long as the new battery fits into the slot)
> ...


----------



## xdriver (Feb 25, 2016)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> So where are you guy`s buying them from it`s going to cost me £110/$153
> 
> Ebay is £85 from Hong-Kong then add £17 IMPORT TAX + £8 handling charge = £110
> 
> ...



I just ordered mine from Amazon (USA)


----------



## teacher (Feb 26, 2016)

HKJ said:


> One thing is small issues, another thing is a defect charger. On any product there will be a small percent of defect products, what is interesting is how the seller handles it.


Amen............ :thumbsup:
Thank you for your great reviews and all the work you put into them *HKJ*!! 
It simply amazes me at all the excellent information you provide for mere mortals such as myself!
The way you explain things in such a concise manner, even I can understand most of it. 
I appreciate that.....
Best regards.


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## Joe Kidd (Feb 26, 2016)

xdriver said:


> I just ordered mine from Amazon (USA)



Got one today from them also, but I decided to return it. I felt after reading all the data here and the operating manual, I didn't have the time to dedicate to it. For now I'll stick with my slow VP4, but the MC3000 sure is a interesting charger.


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## teacher (Feb 29, 2016)

I couldn't stand it any longer so I ordered one from Progressive RC a couple of hours ago. Looking forward to receiving it and trying to apply what I have been reading & studying about the MC3000 the last few weeks. 
Let the learning begin.............. :thumbsup:


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## billcushman (Feb 29, 2016)

Joe Kidd said:


> Got one today from them also, but I decided to return it. I felt after reading all the data here and the operating manual, I didn't have the time to dedicate to it. For now I'll stick with my slow VP4, but the MC3000 sure is a interesting charger.



Once you become more familiar with it, you can create all the programs you need in less than five minutes. It is the most accurate and capable cylindrical cell charger available. If you haven't returned it yet, you should reconsider.


----------



## tbx8192 (Apr 7, 2016)

Thanks HKJ for the interesting review here.
I have a question.
This charger uses non-pulse DC for NiMH/NiCd. But I read it somewhere that pulse DC (or PWM) is always better for NiMH/NiCd (both charge and discharge) because it increases battery ability to discharge at high current. And I remember there is also some other benefit mentioned.
Is this true? If yes, I hope in V2 MC3000, they could use PWM to charge/discharge NiMH/NiCd.


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## HKJ (Apr 7, 2016)

tbx8192 said:


> Thanks HKJ for the interesting review here.
> I have a question.
> This charger uses non-pulse DC for NiMH/NiCd. But I read it somewhere that pulse DC (or PWM) is always better for NiMH/NiCd (both charge and discharge) because it increases battery ability to discharge at high current. And I remember there is also some other benefit mentioned.
> Is this true? If yes, I hope in V2 MC3000, they could use PWM to charge/discharge NiMH/NiCd.



There would be no point in using pulsed discharge, except if typical loads are pulsed.
I have not seen reliable test with pulsed/non-pulses charging, if the difference is very small it is moot anyway.


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## kappa7 (Apr 7, 2016)

The only things sure about pulsed charge is that for an efficiency point of view (energy accumulated/total energy input) it can only worse than constant current.
The losses in the internal resistance of the battery are proportional to the square of the current, so for example for a pulsed charge with 50% of duty cycle with amplitude X vs a constant current with amplitude X/2 the losses in the internal resistance are the double causing the battery to heat more.


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## Gauss163 (Apr 7, 2016)

kappa7 said:


> The only things sure about pulsed charge is that for an efficiency point of view (energy accumulated/total energy input) it can only worse than constant current.
> The losses in the internal resistance of the battery are proportional to the square of the current, so for example for a pulsed charge with 50% of duty cycle with amplitude X vs a constant current with amplitude X/2 the losses in the internal resistance are the double causing the battery to heat more.



That is far from an accurate analysis because the "internal resistance" of a battery does not behave exactly like a resistor in this context (look at a Nyquist plot to understand the full impedance spectrum).


----------



## kappa7 (Apr 8, 2016)

Gauss163 said:


> That is far from an accurate analysis because the "internal resistance" of a battery does not behave exactly like a resistor in this context (look at a Nyquist plot to understand the full impedance spectrum).


For sure it's not only a resistance, but for the resistive part my assumption is true. Indeed I don't know how much the resistive losses are dominant in total losses.


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## Gauss163 (Apr 8, 2016)

kappa7 said:


> For sure it's not only a resistance, but for the resistive part my assumption is true. Indeed I don't know how much the resistive losses are dominant in total losses.



It seems that you are attempting to transfer the simple constant current analyses to the case of pulsed current. But this is not valid (for various reasons). For example, some components of the cell's internal resistance are non-Ohmic (i.e. not governed by the linear relation of Ohm's law) so one needs to do a careful analysis of how these components behave under pulsing, e.g. how the frequency of the pulse interacts with the time constants of various internal processes, etc. Decreases there may offset increases in the purely Ohmic components. Not to mention the effects of relaxation.

Such analyses are so complex that there are even contradictory results in the research literature. Some have found advantages of pulsed charging and some have found disadvantages, not always consistently. A proper analysis may be so context-dependent that it may be difficult to make any _general _claims about one method being superior. But that is no shortage of _opinions _on such matters. But such opinions are usually not grounded in science.


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## kappa7 (Apr 8, 2016)

I understand that the chemical reactions can be very complicated. Do you know any test on common chemistry where the charging efficiency between constant and pulsed have been compared?


----------



## Gauss163 (Apr 8, 2016)

Alas, I am not aware of any studies that would immediately transfer to this context.


----------



## Andrey (Apr 12, 2016)

Jun Li and others. The effects of pulse charging on cycling characteristics of commercial lithium-ion batteries. Journal of Power Sources. December 2001.


> The results show that pulse charging is helpful in eliminating concentration polarization, increasing the power transfer rate, and lowering charge time by removing the need for constant voltage charging in the conventional protocol. Pulse charging interrupts dc charging with short relaxation periods and short discharge pulses during charging, and also improves the active material utilization giving the battery higher discharge capacity and longer cycle life. Impedance measurements show that the magnitude of the interfacial resistance of the batteries cycled both by pulse charging and dc charging is small.


----------



## Gauss163 (Apr 12, 2016)

Andrey said:


> Jun Li and others. The effects of pulse charging on cycling characteristics of commercial lithium-ion batteries. Journal of Power Sources. December 2001.



I posted links to that and others studies last year (e.g. here). But much work remains to be done to better understand these matters. Experts often remark that many aspects of Li-ion batteries are still not well understood.


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## tjh (Jul 15, 2016)

Should be noted that the first 3-4 issues pointed out in the review have been fixed by version 1.11 of the firmware, which end users can download and apply themselves.


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## kreisl (Jul 17, 2016)

HKJ said:


> They may not be faults, but issues:
> 
> 1) Not all cells make contact when placed at the bottom of the slots.


Have you installed the 1.11 firmware on all of your units ? 
And through which Windows OS did you install it ?

How do _you _like the screensaver ? :laughing:


----------



## HKJ (Jul 17, 2016)

kreisl said:


> Have you installed the 1.11 firmware on all of your units ?



No, the chargers works and does what I need.
When I have some spare time I may do it, but I hate reprogramming the chargers.


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## kreisl (Jul 17, 2016)

oh ok
hmm :shrug:


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## TheGrave (Oct 13, 2016)

Fantastic review!

I have a few questions though - seems like this charger doesn't have even basic protection - reverse polarity, short circuits, etc:

http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product/download&download_id=149


(page 20)

Does the charger have built-in protection against reverse polarity, short circuitry,overheat, overvoltage, overload, stupidity, ignorance, explorativity?
- Do not misuse, abuse, or mess around. The device was built for proper responsible usage.

Also page 19 with the error messages suggests the same.

Can you guys confirm? It seems to me impossible to overlook important things like this in such a sophisticated charger.

I currently own a MH-C9000 and have the stupidity to put batteries the other way around every once in a while. When this happens slot menu selection doesn't pop up at all and I feel well protected from my own stupidity  Losing this + the super intuitive and simple operation menu of the Maha + still the extremely scarce reliable EU 18650 protected battery market keeps me away from what seems to be the better headlamps.


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## kreisl (Oct 13, 2016)

TheGrave said:


> - seems like this charger


- seems like you have misread the manual :huh:

anyway thanks for reading the manual. only few ppl nowadays read manuals, especially when it consists of many pages. the maha manual is just 1 sheet of folded paper.

Zebralight and Armytek have some decent headlamps. One does not need 18650's in headlamps. A 18650 weighs 50g already, crazy.


----------



## TheGrave (Oct 13, 2016)

kreisl said:


> - seems like you have misread the manual :huh:
> 
> anyway thanks for reading the manual. only few ppl nowadays read manuals, especially when it consists of many pages. the maha manual is just 1 sheet of folded paper.
> 
> Zebralight and Armytek have some decent headlamps. One does not need 18650's in headlamps. A 18650 weighs 50g already, crazy.



You think? The answer provided inside makes me think it has none of the listed protections 

Maha's manual is not that bad - it's whole 4 pages:

http://www.mahaenergy.com/content/manual_mhc9000.pdf

But then it's a much simpler charger with far less fine tuning you can make. It's severely discounted nowadays which makes me think Maha will come up something similar to the MC3000 soon. All in all the Maha is a great charger. The only complaint I have about it is that buttons seem to start failing (or more likely the circuitry behind them) after about 2-3 years of use - need to press them multiple times in order to do a selection.

I do own a Zebralight H52w which I've never used. My 8GBP XM-L T6 chinese knock-off 4xAA blows the pants out of it (so a 50G battery won't put me off). Seriously, the Zebra looks like a matchstick compared to the chinese one at 1/5 the cost. The problem with the chinese crap is poor soldering - every once in a while a cable gets away from the board and I need to re-solder it (hopefully to the right place ). Battery runtimes I'm not going to compare to modern flashlights as it's quite obvious they'll do much better. But still, with so many good AA Eneloop Pros sitting at home seems like a serious investment to migrate to another format for a questionable benefit. See what NKON have written about the Wizard v3 Pro on which I had my eyes set:

https://eu.nkon.nl/armytek-wizard-pro-v3-xhp50-led.html

I'm clarifying with them whether this is written before or after the latest manual from Armytek (which the *******s haven't intentionally put on their website) for which a link is provided on this webpage.


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## kreisl (Oct 13, 2016)

TheGrave said:


> makes me think


hehe






( btw page m01 mentions numerous safety mechanisms to protect user, device, and batteries from harm, so there you have it )


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## TheGrave (Oct 13, 2016)

kreisl said:


> hehe
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The safety mechanisms they refer to are capacity, voltage, time, and temperature cut-offs. There are numerous other stupid things you can do to damage both the charger and the batteries


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## kreisl (Oct 13, 2016)

funny conversation


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## StandardBattery (Oct 13, 2016)

kreisl said:


> funny conversation


The funny part is why you would start talking about zebralight and claim one does not need 18650 headlamps... that's your opinion but obviously based on how many they sell not everyone's. So it seem obvious some people do as great as their very small early models were. But the funny part really is why you bring it up as well and why you think it's funny since the manual for this charger does not give the impression you have a good sense of humor.


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## kreisl (Oct 13, 2016)

StandardBattery i don't get you. this is too deep. or too heavy. or how does one say in English.

goonite :wave:


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## JDodd (Dec 21, 2016)

HKJ, this review is worth money! Thank you so much for sharing this professional documentation!


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## KiwiMark (Dec 29, 2016)

My MC3000 arrived yesterday, my first thought was: "wow, this is a beefy sized charger".
I've charged some Eneloops and a few different Li-Ion cells and it really does seem like a nice piece of equipment.

I've only created about 4 programs so far, but I've decided that I definitely need to be a bit organised about what settings I use in which programs to make things easy to remember.
I'm going to use the first ones for Li-Ion, so far #01 is Li-Ion 1A charging, #02 is Li-ion 2A charging. I might go with $03 = 0.3A charging (good for 14500 & 16340 cells).
I've set #30 to LiFePO4 1A charging and #29 to Eneloop 1A charging.
I might make 11-20 the discharging programs.
So I'll end up with 01-10 Li-Ion charging, 11-20 discharging, 21-30 other chemistry charging. 
If I make it logical then I wont need to think too hard when choosing a program.
01, 02, 30 & 29 are all pretty quick to choose as they are all next to each other (30 is only down 1 from 01).

I also have 2 hobby chargers and a Xtar VC4 so I'm pretty well set up for charging.
My biggest light uses 8 x 18650 IMR cells(10-15 minutes run time on max output) which take a bit to charge, but the MC3000 can charge half of those at one time with a separate independent channel for each cell. If I use a hobby charger I can also charge 4 at once or even 8 on my iCharger 208B, but not fully independently - I'd have to charge in parallel or in series with balancing leads.


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## kreisl (Dec 29, 2016)

Nice setup!
In the past weeks my saved programs were 
[11] = LiIon 1.75A Charge with Zero termination :devil:
[12] = LiIon C>D Cycle with 0.01A termination
[13] = LiIon 0.50A discharge with 2.50V cut-off
[14] = LiIon 0.30A Charge with 0.03A termination, for charging 16340's

And in SETUP i set the memories to
SNB#1 = [11]
SNB#2 = [12]
SNB#3 = [13]
SNB#4 = [14]

Vely happy with that!
Note that you lose your saved programs when you update the firmware.
DataExplorer's function 'Backup&Restore' helps you to backup your 30 programs in file format (*.XML, *.TXT, or printout).


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## ediaz (Mar 5, 2017)

I will love that somebody make a very good of programming with DataExplorer's function 'Backup&Restore'.

Takes a lot of time make a very good programs on the charge. 




kreisl said:


> Nice setup!
> In the past weeks my saved programs were
> [11] = LiIon 1.75A Charge with Zero termination :devil:
> [12] = LiIon C>D Cycle with 0.01A termination
> ...


----------



## Driftermickh (Apr 1, 2017)

*Re: Test/Review of Charger SkyRC MC3000 Quick Thanks...*

HKJ, for the super review. First post, and happy to say I got the
charger. Little more than I need here, but a lot of fun to work with.
Read most of the thread; been reading and lurking here for a few
weeks. Did a search for the MC.3K and this poped up. So, 1 more
charger in my vast collection here. Thanks everyone for a great thread.
Answered most of my questions...


----------



## david.allie (Feb 27, 2018)

I know this review was originally written several years ago. I believe the MC3000 is still considered king of the universal chargers and have been checking out prices. I’ve noticed that the price on Amazon is almost double what it’s priced on the open market, sometimes even by retailers selling through Amazon.

Any ideas why the price on Amazon is double vs elsewhere?


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## Nev (Feb 28, 2018)

Greedy


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## terryoregon (Mar 2, 2018)

After pondering the purchase of the MC3000 for six months, finally ordered one. It's not easy finding a reputable source who currently has the latest version with two cooling fans. But did find them in stock at nkon.nl. Final price with shipping after conversion to US dollars was $121.03, not the cheapest I've seen others get it, but WAY cheaper than I've seen on Amazon (the last two listings were $170 and $190). 

From NKON'S product listing:


> Latest hardware version, two cooling fans, three raised points on positive terminal (and of course reinforced pins to prevent the broken slider problem in found very old versions)



And of course a couple of other CPF members have also recently ordered from NKON and confirmed the latest version.


----------



## JoeRodge (Mar 2, 2018)

I just got mine from gearbest.com -- they just restocked after a month of being out of stock. Should be the newest model. I'm excited for when it comes in.

Came out to $99


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## seery (Mar 2, 2018)

JoeRodge said:


> -- they just restocked after a month of being out of stock. Should be the newest model.



No guarantees. Chinese factories are notorious for "finding" and dumping large inventories of "old stock".


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## LiteTheWay (Mar 8, 2018)

I got mine (my third one) from NKON. Definitely the latest version with two fans etc. I sold my first production version and have a 'June 2016 production' also from NKON as backup or if I need to charge 4 x D size batteries at once.

Always had good service from NKON.


----------



## terryoregon (Mar 12, 2018)

Received mine today from NKON. Ordered March 1st, arrived 11 days later. 
.

You can never have enough stamps (from the Netherlands).





,
.
NKON packaged it well.





.
.

And of course two cooling fans.





.
.

So pretty.





,
.
*.
Oops*, not everything was perfect. NKON shipped me the wrong plug (EU version). I didn't see an option during the order process to select that. I think they were supposed to look at the shipping address to determine which plug to send. Fortunately, that's a very common two-prong AC chord (female end) and I already had one. The "brick" portion of the adapter takes 100-240V, so the brick works with either the EU or US type cord. Everything powered up OK. Emailed NKON to let them know, and told them they didn't need to do anything, it was just an FYI.

Edit update: Just got this reply from NKON:



> Hi, We are an eu store, and sell 99% within Europe and Russia..
> 
> Don't have any USA or even UK plugs



Therefore, if you live in US and order from NKON, you will need to get your own US cord. On Amazon, they're typically in the $6-7 range.





.
.
On to the fun part; learning how to use it.


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## terryoregon (Mar 19, 2018)

ProgressiveRC has just listed the MC3000 on Amazon (LINK) for $101 plus shipping $7.38 (two-day shipping in the US). That's cheaper than I got it from NKON. 

One of the _questions _on the listing was:


> If I order today (01/16/2018) will the skyrc mc3000 be the newest version with two cooling fans and three raised points on positive terminal?
> "Yes (ProgessiveRC)"


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## joegmeyers (Apr 12, 2018)

terryoregon said:


> ProgressiveRC has just listed the MC3000 on Amazon (LINK) for $101 plus shipping $7.38 (two-day shipping in the US). That's cheaper than I got it from NKON.
> 
> One of the _questions _on the listing was:


Not currently available. I hoped to get this before I deployed, but looks like I'll have to hope they'll ship it to me once it's in stock.


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## joegmeyers (Apr 26, 2018)

JoeRodge said:


> I just got mine from gearbest.com -- they just restocked after a month of being out of stock. Should be the newest model. I'm excited for when it comes in.
> 
> Came out to $99


Was this the newest model? I keep waiting for NKON and progressiverc to get some in stock, but I'm beginning to get impatient. Especially knowing it's going to take about a month to get to where I'm located.


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## id30209 (Apr 28, 2018)

joegmeyers said:


> Was this the newest model? I keep waiting for NKON and progressiverc to get some in stock, but I'm beginning to get impatient. Especially knowing it's going to take about a month to get to where I'm located.



I'v got mine from NKON as well, it's the latest and greatest edition with most of the issues corrected from HKJ review. My HW is 1.3+ and FW is 1.13.


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## joegmeyers (Apr 29, 2018)

id30209 said:


> I'v got mine from NKON as well, it's the latest and greatest edition with most of the issues corrected from HKJ review. My HW is 1.3+ and FW is 1.13.



Yes sir, I would love to get one from NKON. However, my question was generated on NKON still being out of stock.


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## joegmeyers (May 10, 2018)

Great News! Progressiverc has posted that they will be getting a shipment in on 15MAY2018. I have already pre-purchased one and I'm now excitedly awaiting the shipment and arrival. Plenty of time to read he cheat-sheets and manual.


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## klrman (May 19, 2018)

joegmeyers said:


> Was this the newest model? I keep waiting for NKON and progressiverc to get some in stock, but I'm beginning to get impatient. Especially knowing it's going to take about a month to get to where I'm located.



Got mine from Gearbest two weeks ago and it is the latest version.


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## Wireworld (May 31, 2018)

Nkon are advertising them as coming into stock on May 15th although their wording is somewhat ambiguous about what you might actually get as they say:

Latesthardware version, two cooling fans, three raised points on positive terminal(and of course reinforced pins to prevent the broken slider problem in foundvery old versions)

One but last model (one cooling fan, reinforced pins)


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## id30209 (Jun 2, 2018)

Is anyone having unusual IR readings on some of the slots? Shifting from time to time with same batteries?


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## tedi13 (Jul 20, 2018)

Excellent review HKJ!Thank you very much for your time and effort.



the first day the screen does not work bluetooth works well the software pc ok also
sometimes all black or all white sleep mode times yes and sometimes no (
I also test all the updates1.12v-1.13v-1.14v)


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## klrman (Jul 24, 2018)

id30209 said:


> Is anyone having unusual IR readings on some of the slots? Shifting from time to time with same batteries?



Yes. Have to rotate the batteries a little or jiggle them until you get the lowest IR reading and according to HKJ the lowest reading is fairly accurate. I can confirm with another tester that when I move the batteries a little and find the lowest IR reading that it holds up to be reliable.


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## Gauss163 (Jul 24, 2018)

id30209 said:


> Is anyone having unusual IR readings on some of the slots? Shifting from time to time with same batteries?



This may be due to (large) variation in _contact resistance_. One quick and simple way to test for poor contact is to slide you fingers horizontally across the cells (with very light touch) and check if any cells easily rotate while doing so. If they do rotate then rotate/adjust them in the slot until they no longer do so. The goal is to get the cells in all slots under similar contact/pressure so that (hopefully) they have similar contact resistance. This method usually works to eliminate large contact resistance variations.


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## id30209 (Jul 24, 2018)

Thank you guys for info. Did it as advised and it worked.
Thumbsup!


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## hjdca (Aug 30, 2018)

Hello, I just picked up a new SKYRC MC3000 from amazon. It arrived in 2 days with Prime. I bought the one with two fans and the latest firmware. It is a great charger. I love it ! I got the hang of it now. Note: It did come with the European black plug, but, the recharging brick is just like a laptop, and, I had plenty of USA plugs laying around to use with charging brick. 

My first task is to try to re-condition 15 or so 10280 batteries for my brother and mine "old" Draco keylight flashlights. 10280 batteries do not seem to be available anymore, so, I have no choice but to try and recondition all the old used 10280 batteries we have. 
Most of the 10280s are sitting around 95mah and they should be 200mah. I have been cycling them with .09 charge rate and .12 discharge rate, and I moved the voltage cutoff to 2.5 volts. My plan is to cycle them a few times, throw them in the freezer for 24 hours. Thaw them out, then, cycle them a few more times. I am not sure if I will be successful, but, I am already seeing internal resistance going down and the mah coming up.

Do you guys have any charger settings or recommendations for me to get these 10280s back up to 200mah ? Thanks in advance for any help.:thumbsup:


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## hjdca (Aug 31, 2018)

hjdca said:


> Hello, I just picked up a new SKYRC MC3000 from amazon. It arrived in 2 days with Prime. I bought the one with two fans and the latest firmware. It is a great charger. I love it ! I got the hang of it now. Note: It did come with the European black plug, but, the recharging brick is just like a laptop, and, I had plenty of USA plugs laying around to use with charging brick.
> 
> My first task is to try to re-condition 15 or so 10280 batteries for my brother and mine "old" Draco keylight flashlights. 10280 batteries do not seem to be available anymore, so, I have no choice but to try and recondition all the old used 10280 batteries we have.
> Most of the 10280s are sitting around 95mah and they should be 200mah. I have been cycling them with .09 charge rate and .12 discharge rate, and I moved the voltage cutoff to 2.5 volts. My plan is to cycle them a few times, throw them in the freezer for 24 hours. Thaw them out, then, cycle them a few more times. I am not sure if I will be successful, but, I am already seeing internal resistance going down and the mah coming up.
> ...



UPDATE - I am having some success reconditioning these 10280 cells ! So far, I have managed a 50%-100% improvement. I settled on a .08ma charge and a 110ma discharge, with 2.5V low cutoff & 4.2V high cutoff. Most of them started out at around 80-90mah, and now I have them around 125-152 mah with this same discharge rate of 110ma. If I decrease the charge and discharge rate to around 60ma, I believe my mah numbers may get close to the magic 200 mah for these cells. When they rate them at 200mah, I wonder what discharge rate they are assuming. I am sure it is probably below 100ma. The IR also started out very high on these cells (I am using spacers, brass, steel, & aluminum) -- like 900. I have the Batt IR down now to about 300-400. 

My process is the following - C>D>C about 6 times - then Discharge, then seal cells in plastic bag, Freeze for 12 hours. Then, C>D>C to see the results. 

Any recommendations gladly appreciated. I am really loving this charger, it is extremely precise and accurate ! Accuracy and Precision is really such a welcome advantage to this charger.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 31, 2018)

hjdca said:


> My process is the following - C>D>C about 6 times - then Discharge, then seal cells in plastic bag, Freeze for 12 hours. Then, C>D>C to see the results.



Why freeze?

Also, are you really seeing much more improvement after you ran a couple of full cycles already? I would have thought that the vast majority of any improvement would come from the first couple of cycles.


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## hjdca (Aug 31, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Why freeze?
> 
> Also, are you really seeing much more improvement after you ran a couple of full cycles already? I would have thought that the vast majority of any improvement would come from the first couple of cycles.



Yes, I saw about a 30% improvement in mah with just cycling a few times, and then, no improvement.... but, then, the freezing doubled that gain again ! My understanding is that some "junk" in the battery freezes, cracks, and releases "electrolyte" during the freezing/thawing process... It seems to be working well on these small cells. Not sure if it will last though...

The cells bounce off of 2.5V discharge and settle around 2.9V. Super small cells.... Then, I freeze them. After Freezing, at first charge. I see about a 30-50 mah improvement on the first charge.. That is alot for a 200 mah cell !!

Here is a pic of two 10280s that were cycled 3 or 4 times, discharged, frozen, thawed, then charged, then discharged to get the final mah. One just bounced off the 2.5V cutoff and one is about to. Note: these cells tested around 80-90mah when I started, then, went to approx. 115ma after cycling a few times, then to approx. 150ma with the first charge after freezing.

I am putting these same cells again through the freezing process to see if there are any more gains to be had from a second deep Freeze. Stay tuned.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 31, 2018)

The freezing thing is odd. I haven't ever heard of that trick being used to increase capacity. Are you sure it's giving you an increase in total energy, and not just the mAh at a lower voltage draw (due to sag from the cold)? Does that charger show you the Wh when you do a discharge test, not just the mAh? The Wh is what you're really after.


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## hjdca (Aug 31, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The freezing thing is odd. I haven't ever heard of that trick being used to increase capacity. Are you sure it's giving you an increase in total energy, and not just the mAh at a lower voltage draw (due to sag from the cold)? Does that charger show you the Wh when you do a discharge test, not just the mAh? The Wh is what you're really after.



Yes, pretty sure... I kept the settings pretty consistent and the temperatures pretty consistent... I let the batteries thaw to room temperature.

I am discharging at 110ma, and that is giving me as much as 150mah on a few of them.. That seems to be a reasonable discharge rate for these old cells in a Draco. The internal IR of these cells has also cut in half since I started messing with them... 

I will keep going and let you know how I end up. Thanks !


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## hjdca (Sep 1, 2018)

hjdca said:


> Yes, pretty sure... I kept the settings pretty consistent and the temperatures pretty consistent... I let the batteries thaw to room temperature.
> 
> I am discharging at 110ma, and that is giving me as much as 150mah on a few of them.. That seems to be a reasonable discharge rate for these old cells in a Draco. The internal IR of these cells has also cut in half since I started messing with them...
> 
> I will keep going and let you know how I end up. Thanks !




UPDATE2 - ok, I did a second round of "discharge, freeze, thaw, charge, discharge, charge". No real change on the cells. I got 121mah to go to 125mah, and the 150mah went to 155mah, but, that change could have been attributed to variables. 

So, I am done for now. I got 10 of 10280s between 120mah to 150mah with the charge, discharge ratings stated earlier. I am somewhat happy, the Draco is now super bright with these reconditioned cells and gets quite hot. I still think the first freeze improved the cells by 30%, but, I was not very scientific and this could have been due to other variables.

btw, I just love the MC3000 charger. Is it worth it to upgrade the firmware from 1.13 to 1.14 ? I am also using the "auto" algorithm for the fan. It seems better to have the fan on variable speed constantly, rather than it turning on and off at full blast when the defined temperature is reached. Not sure, what is the consensus on the fan algorithms ?


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## Gauss163 (Sep 1, 2018)

Iiirc, there are many hundreds of pages on the web (going back a few decades) claiming that one can revive all sorts of batteries by freezing them - with many contradictory claims (e.g. some say it works for NiCad but not Li-ion, but others claim success with Li-ion too). But I've never seen any scientific data to back up these claims, nor have I seen any tests that are designed with careful enough controls to prove that the improvements were due to freezing. As such, I've always considered this to be an old wives tale. If anyone is aware of anything that rigorously proves otherwise I'd be grateful for links.


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## nqhzdkdf (May 7, 2020)

@HKJ
Because it can be read on your website in many new reviews of new chargers in 2019 and 2020 that you are using the MC3000 to compare with, it would be great if you could retest the new revision of the MC3000 at some time. The new version i am talking about is the one with the two fans instead of one fan.
The PCB layout have changed and also other things have been optimized. It would be great to know how the measurements of the recent version looks like.

Your MC3000 review from 2015 is mentioning many firmware issues that are gone in the recent firmware+hardware combination.


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## HKJ (May 7, 2020)

nqhzdkdf said:


> @HKJ
> Because it can be read on your website in many new reviews of new chargers in 2019 and 2020 that you are using the MC3000 to compare with, it would be great if you could retest the new revision of the MC3000 at some time. The new version i am talking about is the one with the two fans instead of one fan.
> The PCB layout have changed and also other things have been optimized. It would be great to know how the measurements of the recent version looks like.
> 
> Your MC3000 review from 2015 is mentioning many firmware issues that are gone in the recent firmware+hardware combination.




Testing/Reviewing the MC3000 takes a month, even with software updates and changes to the PCB I am not sure I want to use that much time on it.


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## hc900 (May 7, 2020)

HKJ said:


> Testing/Reviewing the MC3000 takes a month, even with software updates and changes to the PCB I am not sure I want to use that much time on it.



I find it understandable that it is not convenient to redo the test on the new versions of SKYRC-MC3000, as well as on the Opus BT-C700.
It must be said that the latest versions behave differently, especially with "experienced" batteries, new firmware and hardware reveal important differences on these chargers.


For you, doing the test again would only lead to magnifying a product that was already good and reliable.
Maybe there is no need to redo or maybe yes.


But I ask you HKJ, why are so many new chargers so often inferior to these 2 chargers?
It almost seems that daring students improvise themselves as manufacturers, but inexperienced or perhaps unable to draw inspiration from valid battery charger models ??

Cordially

Bruno


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