# Which steel would you prefer?



## Polynikes (Mar 25, 2017)

I'm not really a blade steel aficionado and most of my knives are in s30v kind of by coincidence...
However I have my eye on a couple ZTs and I'm having trouble deciding between a 0620cf in CTS-204P, and a 0630cf in M390...
I kind of like the lines of the 0620 blade better but I like the handle of the 0630 better... 
So I'm trying to educate myself on blade steel. 
Anyone have experience with both? What do you prefer? Why? How's the corrosion resistance?
Thanks in advance fellas.


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## tex.proud (Mar 25, 2017)

I don't own a knife in CTS-204P, but the Bohler M390 is a favorite of mine. Highly corrosion resistant, keeps an edge, not difficult to sharpen, and takes a very sharp edge. I EDC my Sebenza in S35VN or my Bradford Guardian 3 fixed blade in M390. These two get used far beyond any other knife/knife steel that I have.

From what I understand M390 is a Swedish steel from Bohler-Uddeholm, and CTS-204P is the U.S. equivalent from Carpenter Technology. Both are powder steels with very similar makup. With the steels being very similar maybe choose by aesthetics, or the fact that one is U.S. made.

There's a great app for smart phones that can tell you a bit about steel composition. It's called Knife Steel Compositions

Android - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=zvisoft.stlchmob&hl=en

Apple - https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/knife-steel-composition-chart/id498892262?mt=8


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## Polynikes (Mar 26, 2017)

tex.proud said:


> ...
> 
> Android - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=zvisoft.stlchmob&hl=en
> 
> Apple - https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/knife-steel-composition-chart/id498892262?mt=8



I very much appreciate that link
I did a little reading and it would seem M390, CTS-204P, and CPM 20CV are all comparable. 
Too bad I don't own any of those steels. Lol


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## bykfixer (Mar 26, 2017)

Why is this in the flashlight discussion area and not the knives area? 

My pop always told me to avoid surgical stainless saying it won't hold an edge. I said "pop, how am I supposed to learn to add/keep a proper edge without practice?" He said "good point" and handed me his fathers sharpening stone. Thanks to that it no longer matters to me what the blade is made of as years of practice has paid off.


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## archimedes (Mar 26, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Why is this in the flashlight discussion area and not the knives area? ....



Moved to Knives forum .... Thanks


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## Polynikes (Mar 26, 2017)

As for the wrong placement of the thread that's my bad, thought I selected knives.

bykfixer
I can sharpen a knife to hair shaving sharp without much trouble... but I use my knives for work and I don't have time to sharpen my knife while I'm in the middle of mending a basketball size hole in the shrimp net... (I'm a commercial fisherman)
For EDC purposes, I really don't care what the blade steel is...


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## Woods Walker (Mar 26, 2017)

Overall proper heat treat is just as important as the steel so the knife maker is very important. I am really liking CPM3v as did a blank and it's really good. But like O1, 1095 and yes even SS such as 12c27.


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## xxo (Mar 26, 2017)

If you are working around salt water, you will likely loose sharpness faster from corrosion than from wear. I would suggest H1, it won't rust at all and with a serrated edge it will out perform the "super steels" in edge holding including serrated ZDP189. Serrated H1 is easy to sharpen with a sharpmaker or one of those little dog bone ceramic sharpeners. A serrated edge is not the best for everything but it works great for rope/line. In plain edge, H1 is more like 12c27......easy to sharpen with OK edge holding but nothing to write home about.


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## Polynikes (Mar 26, 2017)

xxo said:


> If you are working around salt water, you will likely loose sharpness faster from corrosion than from wear.
> ...
> Serrated H1 is easy to sharpen with a sharpmaker or one of those little dog bone ceramic sharpeners. A serrated edge is not the best for everything but it works great for rope/line.
> ...



I have an H1 blade I keep it on me when I'm at sea... and yes serrations work great on larger diameter line, but for 5/8s and 7/16s crab rope (usually the rope I'm cutting aside from small twine that nets are made from) I can push cut it with a properly sharpened plain edge and prefer plain edge enough to where I won't buy a serrated blade... as for corrosion, I don't neglect my knives so none of my knives are corroded at all... I'm more of a "knife guy" than a "light guy" to be honest... I spend more time on bladeforums than on CPF


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## bykfixer (Mar 26, 2017)

Polynikes said:


> ... but I use my knives for work and I don't have time to sharpen my knife while I'm in the middle of mending a basketball size hole in the shrimp net... (I'm a commercial fisherman).



Yeah I can see that.


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## xxo (Mar 26, 2017)

If you look at an edge that's made contact with salt water under a microscope, you can see globs of microscopic rust that are dulling the edge; this happens quickly - long before there is any visible rust on the blade. 

As far as my impressions of some of the steels I have used a lot VG10 is a good all around steel as is CPM S30V (slightly less corrosion resistant than VG10 in my experience but holds an edge slightly longer).

ZDP 189 has excellent edge holding, but not very rust resistant for stainless, can be a bear if you have to reprofile the edge (though not hard to sharpen if the edge is set to the right angle). 

D2/CPM D2 very good edge holding, but rusts almost as easy as carbon steel. 

BG42 sort of a cross between VG10 and S30V. 

440C can be a good steel if given a good heat treat very good corrosion resistance, MBS 26 similar to 440C - very good rust resistance with good to very good edge holding, VG1 also similar to 440C & MBS 26, but not quite as corrosion resistant in my experience.


Truth be told edge/blade geometry are more important than blade steel, a blade with a thick edge/blade grind is not going to cut well no matter what steel it is.


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## roger-roger (Mar 26, 2017)

I worked as a commercial fisherman for a very brief period--longline and bottom fish--mostly for adventure. For a number of years I was partners in a small boat used mostly for hand line tuna (Bigeye, Yellowfin) for the sashimi market. Was also heavily involved with yacht racing for 30+ year. 

The up shot is the Spyderco Delica generation 1 below in GIN 1 steel, has seen thousands of sea mile. Mostly inter-island, with at least one trip to San Fransisco. It was never used as a day in, day out work knife, but mostly as a constantly worn emergency cutting implement. I saw about a month ago a NOS Gen 1 half serrated Delica go for less than $60. Still knocking my head on the wall over letting that one go.


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## KITROBASKIN (Mar 26, 2017)

Spyderco Salt Series with H1 steel. There is another steel lacking corrosion that Spyderco (and others?) are offering. One is the (UPCOMING) Caribbean Salt, I believe, from Spyderco.


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## Polynikes (Mar 27, 2017)

roger-roger said:


> I worked as a commercial fisherman for a very brief period--longline and bottom fish--mostly for adventure. For a number of years I was partners in a small boat used mostly for hand line tuna (Bigeye, Yellowfin) for the sashimi market. Was also heavily involved with yacht racing for 30+ year.
> 
> ...


I've never long lined, just whiting aka hake (artificial crab meat), bottom fish, dungeoness crab, and pink shrimp. Been fishing for 6 years plus the summers while I was 16 and 17... I'm learning to captain. It's always been the plan, my dad bought the boat a week after I was born (I'm 24) but he's been a captain for 35 years. 

67' long 24' wide. We're going to add 10 feet in length next year if all goes as planned. 
F\V Jeanette Marrie





This is just prior to the current crab season. We've got 500 pots on board, ready to throw them off.


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## Polynikes (Mar 27, 2017)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Spyderco Salt Series with H1 steel. There is another steel lacking corrosion that Spyderco (and others?) are offering. One is the (UPCOMING) Caribbean Salt, I believe, from Spyderco.



As I mentioned I have a Pacific Salt...
And the Caribbean Salt is wearing LC200N, not H1...
I'm not looking for the best salt water knife... I'm going to buy a new folder that will inevitably be used while we're in port mending nets and doing other maintenance on the boat...


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## roger-roger (Mar 27, 2017)

Polynikes said:


> I've never long lined, just whiting aka hake (artificial crab meat), bottom fish, dungeoness crab, and pink shrimp. Been fishing for 6 years plus the summers while I was 16 and 17... I'm learning to captain. It's always been the plan, my dad bought the boat a week after I was born (I'm 24) but he's been a captain for 35 years.
> 
> 67' long 24' wide. We're going to add 10 feet in length next year if all goes as planned.
> F\V Jeanette Marrie
> ...




Nice boat and good luck on attaining your license. Sure wish the boat we used to bottom fish Lisianski Island 900mi NW of Honolulu was as nice. 

We used to do up to two night trips out to 30mi+ on a 27' boat, sleeping in the afternoon, using handline techniques that go back to the ancient Hawaiian fisherman in his outrigger canoe. We were whats called here semi-commercial fisherman. Construction workers by trade, we loved the layoffs so we could get back on the water. 

(Sorry for taking this off subject.)


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## kelmo (Mar 30, 2017)

Welcome to CPF!

Check out this link:

www.knifeinformer.com/discovering-the-best-knife-steel/

kelmo


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## redvalkyrie (Mar 30, 2017)

I'm rather partial to VG10. I have knives in S35vn, S30, S110, 154, BD1, 440c, etc.

VG10 just takes an edge so well.


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## Polynikes (Mar 30, 2017)

roger-roger said:


> Nice boat and good luck on attaining your license. Sure wish the boat we used to bottom fish Lisianski Island 900mi NW of Honolulu was as nice.
> 
> We used to do up to two night trips out to 30mi+ on a 27' boat, sleeping in the afternoon, using handline techniques that go back to the ancient Hawaiian fisherman in his outrigger canoe. We were whats called here semi-commercial fisherman. Construction workers by trade, we loved the layoffs so we could get back on the water.
> 
> (Sorry for taking this off subject.)



I've been at sea for 15 days and nights crabbing, but dragging the longest is closer to 7 or 8 days. The boat was built in '88 to joint venture (catch rock fish for the russians) but they put a stop to that a well before I was fishing. It wasn't uncommon for my dad to be gone for over a month. 
We all love the sea, can't see myself doing anything else... definitely seen some things most people won't ever see, but it's not for everyone. 
If you've seen Deadliest Catch Dungeons Cove, we were going to buy the Galway Bay, but the owner before the current owner backed out and then changed his mind. We said no, and a friend of ours bought it. That show is a joke though by the way, we turned discovery down when they asked us to be on it. Couldn't believe when I found out the Rutherford's agreed to it. 
As for taking it off topic, I already purchased the knife so... it's no biggie lol
I like talking about fishing anyway, plus your experience sounds pretty interesting. Never been anywhere near Hawaii let alone fished there.


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## KITROBASKIN (Mar 31, 2017)

You, Polynikes, are a great resource for informing us on what steel performs: There is No substitute for experience in hard-use circumstances. And while some of us would like to hear how the LC200N on a Spyderco endures, any feedback on what you are using is most welcome. Keep this thread alive and feel free to go off-topic (fishing and such things related to your experience) on what interests you, the thread originator. (hoping that the moderators are amenable)


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## Polynikes (Mar 31, 2017)

KITROBASKIN said:


> You, Polynikes, are a great resource for informing us on what steel performs: There is No substitute for experience in hard-use circumstances. And while some of us would like to hear how the LC200N on a Spyderco endures, any feedback on what you are using is most welcome. Keep this thread alive and feel free to go off-topic (fishing and such things related to your experience) on what interests you, the thread originator. (hoping that the moderators are amenable)



No need for sarcasm...


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## nbp (Mar 31, 2017)

^^ I'm pretty sure that was a sincere post.


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## KITROBASKIN (Mar 31, 2017)

Hey, I apologize for not being clear enough on both of my posts. We do really enjoy hearing about the experiences of others, and since it is your thread, the moderators should be Ok with it and will probably find it interesting as well. If you have any questions about something with me, feel free to PM. Again, I apologize.


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## Polynikes (Mar 31, 2017)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Hey, I apologize for not being clear enough on both of my posts. We do really enjoy hearing about the experiences of others, and since it is your thread, the moderators should be Ok with it and will probably find it interesting as well. If you have any questions about something with me, feel free to PM. Again, I apologize.


My mistake! 






I apologize for assuming it was negative... and if you'd like to know, I don't like the edge H1 takes it doesn't feel as toothy as say s30v... but considering the extreme corrosion resistance I do keep one on me at all times at sea for emergency cutting purposes. Like if I get tangled in rope and pulled overboard... I'd like to make it home to my kids lol


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## Redleg118 (Apr 11, 2017)

Polynikes said:


> I'm not really a blade steel aficionado and most of my knives are in s30v kind of by coincidence...
> However I have my eye on a couple ZTs and I'm having trouble deciding between a 0620cf in CTS-204P, and a 0630cf in M390...
> I kind of like the lines of the 0620 blade better but I like the handle of the 0630 better...
> So I'm trying to educate myself on blade steel.
> ...


Basically these two steels are the same just made by two different companies. The graph in the image shows the composition of each.


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## excalibur71 (Apr 20, 2017)

M390 is very highly regarded super steel. I have one in my collection. Very nice, highly recommend, you won't be disappointed. Haven't had any personal experience with CTS-204P yet myself.


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## geisto (May 1, 2017)

LC200N aka Cronidur30 aka ZFiNit is a great steel for corrosion resistance. Basically a highly corrosion resistant ball-bearing steel.


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## kaichu dento (May 1, 2017)

xxo said:


> A serrated edge is not the best for everything but it works great for rope/line.


Nice thread and good input here too, but...


Polynikes said:


> ...serrations work great on larger diameter line, but for 5/8s and 7/16s crab rope (usually the rope I'm cutting aside from small twine that nets are made from) I can push cut it with a properly sharpened plain edge and prefer plain edge enough to where I won't buy a serrated blade...


I'm in this category too. I love serrations for larger stuff that just needs to be cut, but regardless of diameter, you can't get the clean cut that a straight edge offers, and for this reason, the only serrations I own are on my Leatherman.


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## Polynikes (May 1, 2017)

geisto said:


> LC200N aka Cronidur30 aka ZFiNit is a great steel for corrosion resistance. Basically a highly corrosion resistant ball-bearing steel.



I ended up with the m390, but on the note of LC200 (which I am familiar with) my next knife is likely going to be a SpydieChef.


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## Polynikes (May 1, 2017)

kaichu dento said:


> ...
> ...you can't get the clean cut that a straight edge offers...
> 
> ...the only serrations I own are on my Leatherman.



Exactly!

And my Leatherman MTs are the only knives I own with serrations.

As for the H1 serrated knives I'm sure they're great, but in plain edge (which again, I strongly prefer) I'm not a fan, and I'm very much looking forward to trying out LC200.


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## Dingle1911 (May 2, 2017)

I am glad I don't have to pick just one steel. The grind really makes a difference as well. I like M390 as a stainless steel and D2 as tool steel.


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## MotorHorse (May 19, 2017)

tex.proud said:


> ...
> 
> There's a great app for smart phones that can tell you a bit about steel composition. It's called Knife Steel Compositions
> 
> ...



Awesome post. As a total knife newbie, this app is indispensable and a very helpful learning tool.
Hopefully, I can learn a thing or two about knife steel without feeling overwhelmed.


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## freebird610 (Jul 18, 2017)

My current favorites are s110v, and M390/CPM-20cv/cts 204p. S90v is pretty darn awesome as well. Haven't tried LC200N yet. That i'm sure will be up there too. I like really stainless steels that hold a great edge obviously.


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