# 3D Mag ROP or Mag85?



## BobbyRS (Jul 24, 2007)

I already have an 3D cell Mag. What would be the best confirguration to convert this over to a Mag-ROP? I have read many of the ROP threads, but most talk about 2 and 4+ D and C cell setups. Not much talk about a 3D setup. Thanks!


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## racer7 (Jul 24, 2007)

*Re: 3D Mag ROP Battery Configuration?*

Not the best choice for a ROP. I generally do ROPs in a smaller form factor (though I have done a 6D one also and didn't like the performance- I prefer the ROP bulb at higher voltages than come out of 6 NiMHs)
A ROP is typically run on 6 or 7 AA size NiMHs or a couple of AWs LiIons, or other equivalent voltages. You can certainly make various stups that will fit and work but what's next would prbably be easier for you.

If you change to a KIU bipin socket or buy an FM adapter for bipin bulbs you can do an 1185 that is a bunch brighter than a ROP and IMO, a usefully better light because the bulb is simply a better flashlight bulb in ways other than just brightness. Then you need either 9aa to 3D adapter (FM when available) or fit 3 AW C Lions or similar.


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## BobbyRS (Jul 24, 2007)

*Re: 3D Mag ROP Battery Configuration?*

Thanks! Hmmmm....

Mag85 vs. MAG ROP: So, really the only difference is the bi-pin adapter and bulb....

Mag85:

1. Bi-pin adapter $30 (FM) $12 (KIU)
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=155120
or
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=132235

2. WA1185 bi-pin bulb (FM) $6 or (Light-Edge) $5.50
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/164796
or
http://www.light-edge.com/proddetail.asp?section=Super%20Bulbs&prod=WA01185BP

3. Camless stippled metal reflector (MOP) $23 (MM) or Cammed (LOP) $18 (Light-Edge)
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=103180&highlight=Camless+MOP
or
http://light-edge.com/products.asp?section=Mag Reflectors&cat=42

4. A glass lense (UCL) $7 or (Borofloat) $5.50
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1542
or
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1079

5. 9AA>3D adapter - $40
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/164796

MAG ROP:

1. Pelican FL-3854 - $8
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1070

4. A glass lense (UCL) $7 or (Borofloat) $5.50
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1542
or
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1079

3. Camless stippled metal reflector (MOP) $23 (MM) or Cammed (LOP) $18 (Light-Edge)
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=103180&highlight=Camless+MOP
or
http://light-edge.com/products.asp?section=Mag Reflectors&cat=42

4. 9AA>3D adapter - $40
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/164796

Any battery preferences for the 9AA>3D between the two mods?

And maybe a Smart Charger - $30
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=147622


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## robm (Jul 24, 2007)

*Re: 3D Mag ROP Battery Configuration?*



racer7 said:


> ... for bipin bulbs you can do an 1185 that is a bunch brighter than a ROP and IMO, a usefully better light because the bulb is simply *a better flashlight bulb in ways other than just brightness*.



Hi,

Could you explain this bit in layman's terms?

Thanks


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## BSBG (Jul 24, 2007)

I would concur that a 3D is not an ideal ROP host, unless you wanted to run a 9AA pack with 2 dummy cells. Apparently the ROP high does quite well with 7 AAs, noticeably brighter than the 6 cell 2D version.

But, if it was me, I'd go 1185 with 9 cells as it is brighter than the ROP. Not a huge difference, but might as well get all lumens you reasonably can out of a particular form factor.


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## jdriller (Jul 24, 2007)

*Re: 3D Mag ROP Battery Configuration?*



robm said:


> Hi,
> 
> Could you explain this bit in layman's terms?
> 
> Thanks



The Welsch Allen Bulb is one of the best bi-pins bulbs around. The pelican bulb has a PR base which is much more failure prone then a properly run 1185. 

The simplest mod is using the Pelican bulb. You don't have to mod the bulb base at all.


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## robm (Jul 25, 2007)

:thanks:

So this is a reliability benefit?

I just like to know what the thinking is behind a conclusion of 'better' or 'best' 

For me, a ROP is 'better', because I only have 2D mags!


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## BobbyRS (Jul 25, 2007)

BSBG said:


> Apparently the ROP high does quite well with 7 AAs, noticeably brighter than the 6 cell 2D version.


 
Good to know, thanks.



BSBG said:


> But, if it was me, I'd go 1185 with 9 cells as it is brighter than the ROP. *Not a huge difference, but might as well get all lumens you reasonably can out of a particular form factor.*


 
Spoken like a true flashaholic!


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## BobbyRS (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: 3D Mag ROP Battery Configuration?*



jdriller said:


> The pelican bulb has a PR base which is much more failure prone then a properly run 1185.


 
Is it really known for failure though? I haven't heard/read of anyone discussing their failure as a result of it being a PR base bulb.


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## BobbyRS (Jul 25, 2007)

I would love to do either one of these mods right now, but seeing how I can't seem to find the 1185 bulb available right now, it doesn't look like I will be able to try for the Mag85 which is what I prefer. 

Plus, both mods are turning out to be a little more expensive than what I was first thinking. Mainly due to the battery adapter ($40 ouch) and possibly new NiMHs.


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## jimjones3630 (Jul 25, 2007)

Here's a ROP primer for nimh and link to li edition showing many variations or ROP, didn't see one for 7 cells.

http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=9

In this thread is several sources ROP bulbs.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/155745

ROP is appealing because of it's potted bulb thus less expensive. 

Jim


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## BobbyRS (Jul 25, 2007)

> didn't see one for 7 cells.


 
I'm assuming an 8AA holder and a dummy AA cell to make a 7AA ROP. I had read it is much brighter then the 6 cell setup. 

Modamag has them here:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=96929

I was thinking of trying the 9AA-3D / Series / 10.8V ... $15 (for the kit) and $20 (for the completed unit) and using a dummy cell and hoping for no instaflash. Most likely I will have to use 7 cells and 2 dummies though. Again, better then $40.



> In this thread is several sources ROP bulbs.


 
Thanks! Getting the Pelican bulb for a ROP is not a problem right now (Lighthound has them in stock) however. Actually it looks like FM has the WA1185 bi-pin bulb in stock!

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/164796

Would these work ok in a 3D Mag for either the ROP or Mag85 setup?

3AA to 1D Battery Holder ( series connection ) : 3$ each 
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=119033

$9 is much better then $40. BUT I am thinking that it won't work for the Mag85...


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## jimjones3630 (Jul 25, 2007)

BobbyRS said:


> I'm assuming an 8AA holder and a dummy AA cell to make a 7AA ROP. I had read it is much brighter then the 6 cell setup.
> 
> Modamag has them here:
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=96929
> ...


 
Yeah $9 vs. $40 although you get what you pay for. 

9AASto3D holder has less resistance, = more V to the bulb. I got some 1/4" copper plate from the salvage yard and cut some 1/4x1/4x2" for dummies which worked great in a 8AA+1 with 1164.

9AA holder + 2 dummies could run wa1111 but need a bipin socket.

Using 7 cells you might want all the resistance you can get then the 3AA/D makes sense and don't need to do any of the "fixes."

Jim


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## BobbyRS (Jul 25, 2007)

jimjones3630 said:


> I blown so many ROP HO with 6 cells, did all the "fixes", I bet you can get just as much lumens out the lens with 6, not overly moded, as you can with 7 cells. In fact the next ROP planning on doing one fix at a time working my way up hopefully before instant area.


 
Interesting quote:



LumenHound said:


> 6 AA sized hot off the charger cells will *not *instaflash the HI or LOW bulb.
> 
> 7 comercial variety AA sized rested cells will *not* instaflash the HI or LOW bulb.
> 
> ...


 
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1788736&postcount=191



jimjones3630 said:


> Yeah $9 vs. $40 although you get what you pay for.


 
Yeah, but how much better is it to justify being more then twice as much?




jimjones3630 said:


> 9AA holder + 2 dummies could run wa1111 but need a bipin socket.


 
If I got the bi-pin socket, then wouldn't it make more sense to stick with the wa1185 and 9 cells with no dummies?


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## robm (Jul 25, 2007)

BobbyRS said:


> Originally Posted by *jimjones3630*
> 
> 
> _Yeah $9 vs. $40 although you get what you pay for._
> Yeah, but how much better is it to justify being more then twice as much?



I haven't got a 9 cell version, but have got the 6 cell ones (for a ROP HO), and in my setup the difference between the $6 and $38 is about 20% difference in output, or 100 lumens (~500 to ~600)


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## jimjones3630 (Jul 25, 2007)

The 1185 is a lot of light and more than enough in some cases. Can always use it's LO bulb, 1166. It depends on what you want and the mission.

A 18AA in 9sx2p with 1185 is my go to light when call out in the middle of the night. Bright enough and long run time.

I like versatility and get a kick out of swapping parts and bulbs around. Trying to stuff 12 6s2p 18650's into it now and output 250w. 

The 6 cells I reliable instantflashed ROP Ho bulbs with are tenery sc 3800mah in a 5C [email protected] which now holds a wa1111 and not instantflashed one yet.

Jim


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## gswitter (Jul 25, 2007)

BobbyRS said:


> jimjones3630 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah $9 vs. $40 although you get what you pay for.
> ...


It _*is*_ that much better. The 3AA->D holders that LITEmania sells are OK, but they're smaller in diameter than a D cell and tend to rattle around in D Mags. FM's 9AA->3D holder is a _*very*_ nice piece, and fits perfectly in a 3D Mag. And the charging port is a nice bonus.

I really like the flexibility of the 3D Mag + FM 9AA->3D holder. It makes a great hotwire test platform.


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## Patriot (Jul 25, 2007)

oh with a 3D I'd do an 1185 without question. It's just a better bulb to begin with an it will be brighter with really good run time. Pretty hard to go wrong with an 85.


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## racer7 (Jul 25, 2007)

I'm the guy who initially opined that the 1185 is a better bulb than the ROP HI.

Here's are a few reasons
1) The ROP bulb tends to be yellowish (too low color temp) for my taste on 6 NiMHs. Doesn't matter if its Ds or AAs or who the cell maker is. That means you really need to run a ROP HI on 7 NiMHs for my taste.

2) Problem is that when you run it on 7, it is quite prone to instaflash on fresh cells. I'm not much for the silliness of "resting" stuff - I rarely plan 8 hrs ahead about using a battery powered device and may grab "hot" cells to run anything from cameras and strobes to flashlights. (I've got about a dozen 110 outlets occupied with chargers at my charger station and have capability for essentially all common cylindrical NiMHs and lithiums in many varieties including Cs and most of the common Sony camera and camcorder batteries as well as other brands)

3) If you run the ROP on a 6 NiMH cell equivalent in C-Lions (a pair) and compare it to a Welch Allyn 1111, you will see that the 1111 is whiter and generally has a better formed beam. (The 2C 1111 with an AW starter and a MOP/UCL is a very nice and compact light.) The 1185 is basically an up-voltage and brighter 1111 and otherwise very similar.

4) In the 3 cell size (3C-Lions in a C light or 9AA in a D light), the 1185 is similarly white, brighter than a ROP on 7, so why would one want to fabricate a couple dummy cells for 3D light to run a ROP in that size when you could stick 3 C Lions in the tube or just buy a smaller 3C light? A the 3C Lion 1185 is compact and has a passable balance of power/runtime for its size. Its got good color and is not prone to instaflash, at least in my hands.

5) I see no good reason to use a potted bulb that can run as hot as a ROP, 1111, or 1185, etc. The bipin is better choice for high temps both for the bulb and socket design.



C Lions are more convenient than sets of AA NiMHs as long as you are within the amp limits of protected C cells. They hold a charge a lot longer, you can charge them in or out of holders (you can get C holders at RS and daisy chain them on a 777 charger or multiple other similar alternatives) and lights just like AAs, etc.


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## BobbyRS (Jul 25, 2007)

I sort of already believed that FM's 9AA>3D adapter was much better. Just wanting to hear a little as to why. So, thanks for listing some great points as to why!


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## robm (Jul 25, 2007)

Thanks for the detailed reply racer7 :thumbsup:

:goodjob:


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## jimjones3630 (Jul 25, 2007)

I think I muddled the point in 6cell vs 7cell. It's about resistance not volts to at the battery but volts at the bulb.

Measuring the volts of the pak with a DMM lead to the battery pak and completing the curcit with other lead to the body threads with the switch in the on position then compare that with DMM leads to the bulb pins with it on will give you an idea of the diffence resistance makes between two mods. 

Some people just use a light meter.

Jim


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## FredM (Jul 25, 2007)

racer7 said:


> C Lions are more convenient than sets of AA NiMHs as long as you are within the amp limits of protected C cells. They hold a charge a lot longer, you can charge them in or out of holders (you can get C holders at RS and daisy chain them on a 777 charger or multiple other similar alternatives) and lights just like AAs, etc.



You can charge LiIons on a Maha 777?


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## racer7 (Jul 26, 2007)

The Maha C-777 Plus II does packs of Lions or NiMHs, has a switch for batt type, and a temp sensor for NiMHs.
No holders are supplied but a plug that matches FMs plugs for batt holder and lights does come with the thing as does a set of clips. All you do is setup to plug in your pack or light, or you can go to Radio Shack or similar and get a holder for several C cells, for example, and attach clips to charge. Say you buy some 2C cell holders- you can daisy chain them to do2, 4, 6, cells - anything up to 22V.
You can also do lithium camera batts if you wish.
Auto shutoff, etc.


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## Beer (Jul 26, 2007)

Hmmm....

I just read this entire thread and I'm way confused. 

So here is my $.02.

I have two ROP's. A 2D ROP LO and a 4D ROP HO.

The 2D runs off 6 NIMH Energizer AA Cells and is bright.

The 4D runns off 6 Sub-C 4500 NIMH cells in a stick, and is WAY BRIGHT!

Heres What I'm talking about...

2D






4D






2D Batts






4D Batts


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## FASTCAR (Jul 26, 2007)

This is in no way a flame.

I just dont get the mag 85 / ROP craze.

I guess its ok for 1-5 mins..then they yellow and dim real fast.The curve is just horrible on AAs.

I guess I dont see its use really.

If its a size thing, you can get a HID thats similar size or less and 1800ish lumens.Not to mention 1+ hours NEVER dimming/ yellowing run time.

Cant be low cost. All said and done: host, bulb,bats,glass,D or C to AA carrier ect ect. Must be well over 100 bucks.

As for starting fires : Try matches or a lighter, both work better.


Ok so those that have them..what is the deal?


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## FredM (Jul 26, 2007)

Well for one they are a cool project.
Also how much does your HID mag cost? probably alot more than 100 bucks.

If you run these on sub-c's or LiIons they do not go yellow after 5 minutes.


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## 45/70 (Jul 26, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> Ok so those that have them..what is the deal?


I think, no mater how much money you have, some people just like to "roll their own" so to speak. There's a lot of satisfaction building your own light.

I keep seeing folks using 2500mAh Energizers etc. in their ROP's. believe me, they just don't cut it. They lack the ability to supply enough current to the ROP HO. In a 2D version, get some CBP 1650's or possibly some of the newer R/C batteries. They make a huge difference. You're also shorting yourself by not doing the resistance fix on the switch, as well. Both of these make a huge difference.

Dave

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to say, in a 3D I'd definitely go for the 1185!


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## Beer (Jul 26, 2007)

LOL.... The Eng. 2500's do suck. Talk about crushing dissapointment the first time I fired up the 2D with the ROP HO bulb in it. The cells just cant handle the amp draw and the voltage sags too much.

HOWEVER,

The Sub-C's I have in the 4D are nothing short of amazing, I get about 2 - 3 hours fiarly dimming free run time before the start fading quick. They are rated at over 30 amps draw while maintianing 1.2V.

The 4500 cells in my batt stick last a looong time. I imagine the 3600 cells at cheapbatterypacks would work just as well, just with less runtime.


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## gramanam (Jul 27, 2007)

_Sorry if this is a bit off track.
_
What is the runtime with a WA 1166 and 9 rechargeable AA batteries?
Or with a Osram MR-16 25w?

Is it possible to run any of these bulbs on normal alkaline AA batteries?


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## BobbyRS (Jul 27, 2007)

Nice pics Beer! Thanks for posting.


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## BobbyRS (Jul 27, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> This is in no way a flame.
> 
> I just dont get the mag 85 / ROP craze.
> 
> ...


 
My interest is the modding. A "do-it-yourselfer" job. It is not too complex and there seems to be many different configurations to mess around with. Extremly fun! Plus, not too expensive compared to other mods and buying a new HID.


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## BobbyRS (Jul 27, 2007)

FredM said:


> If you run these on sub-c's or LiIons they do not go yellow after 5 minutes.


 
Which Lith-Ion configuration do you prefer?


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