# Finally finished: Triple Seoul P7 Mag-Lite



## Der Wichtel (Apr 6, 2009)

I have finally finished my triple P7 Mag-Lite.

3x Seoul P7 
3x custom reflectors
1x custom heatsink
1x driver
4x 18650 batteries are used to power the light up
1x ultra clear front glas

That's it 

Beamshots will follow this evening






















Edit:

And now beamshots:

Controlshot






Light turned on. Distance to those white things is about 80-90m







Same distance from the other side:













Edit: A few more pics...


















The Hotspot underexposured:






higher resolution:

http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/IMG_0677.JPG
http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/IMG_0650.JPG
http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/IMG_0663.JPG
http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/IMG_5072.JPG


http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/beamshot/IMG_0686.JPG
http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/beamshot/IMG_0685.JPG
http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/beamshot/IMG_0687.JPG
http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/beamshot/IMG_0688.JPG


http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/beamshot/IMG_0696.JPG
http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/beamshot/IMG_0697.JPG
http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/beamshot/IMG_0700.JPG
http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/beamshot/IMG_0698.JPG
http://daoriginal.da.funpic.de/data/Dsink/beamshot/IMG_0692.JPG

 A short video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyLR-H_5a88

-
-


----------



## ICUDoc (Apr 6, 2009)

Nice one der Wichtel! Looks great- I made a similar one for an M6 and that's lots of fun. 
What reflectors are they? I see you call them custom, but do you have a source?


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 6, 2009)

My dad knows a reflector company. I gave them my drawings and they built them for me


----------



## rayman (Apr 6, 2009)

Nice light :thumbsup:. Came out very nice .

rayman


----------



## tx101 (Apr 6, 2009)

Very NICE :twothumbs

What current are you running the light at ?
How hot does it get ?
Will you be selling this as a kit ?

Very COOL


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 6, 2009)

The leds are driven at about 2.8A to 3A.
After 2-3 min. the head gets a little bit warmer than my hand and stays in this condition.
The heatsink conducts the heat to both the tube and the head therefore the heat can be better managed.

I can provide the heatsink, reflectors and driver as a kit but they must be selfassembled. As you can see in the video it takes pretty long to build up everything.


----------



## tx101 (Apr 6, 2009)

> As you can see in the video it takes pretty long to build up everything.



The video is 9.09 minutes long ... a pretty fast build in my book


----------



## sygyzy (Apr 6, 2009)

I love how Der just happens to know a reflector manufacturer. I am guessing reflectors is a niche market so how many could there possibly be in the world? From his other link, he also knows an annodizer. I wish I lived in Germany so I could see this expert modder in action!


----------



## Al Combs (Apr 6, 2009)

After watching the video, are your P7's wired in series or in parallel


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 6, 2009)

they are wired in series. It just looks like on that pic as if both wires are coming out of one pin but both pins are on the left and right side and the wires are coming out on the top middle side of the led


----------



## Al Combs (Apr 6, 2009)

It was a little hard to tell from the picture. The only reason I wondered was you said the light only gets a little warmer than your hand after 3 minutes use.



Der Wichtel said:


> The leds are driven at about 2.8A to 3A.
> After 2-3 min. the head gets a little bit warmer than my hand and stays in this condition.



I have a single P7 MagLite that gets warm after three minutes. How do you have 30 watts worth of LED's in continuous use without getting any hotter than just warm to the touch? That is a pretty big heat sink. Perhaps it's just storing the heat? How much longer that 3 minutes have you run it? Did you use the MX-2 between the heat sink and the head?

Very nice build BTW. Any idea what kind of price you are talking about in terms of a kit? I'd be happy with a triple P7 even if it wasn't a continuous use light.


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 6, 2009)

Just finished some measurements with the tempsensor of a cheap multimeter.

The probe is not flat which is why I added some thermal paste and fixed it with some adhesive foam tape.

After about 7 minutes the value was very constant and I did a second measurement at 10 minuts. It showed me 38°C. Anyway you have to add 5°C to 8°C for the real value :thumbsup:

I can offer the kit whichs has Heatsink, 3 refectors, driver and o-ring (in order to avoid scratches made by the heatsink on the lens) for 45€.


----------



## p moore (Apr 6, 2009)

Thats just SICK, I like it though.


----------



## cnjl3 (Apr 6, 2009)

Very nice! I am still using my single P7 with your driver and it still kickin' butt! Your video makes it look pretty simple. Sounds like you are gonna get a few orders.


----------



## wquiles (Apr 6, 2009)

Compared to several other 3x P7 or MC-E's projects your temps seem a little bit too low, but this is a very impressive project - nicely done :twothumbs

Will


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 7, 2009)

Thanks,
another 3x P7 light from someone else gets only 30°C warm 
http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=65107
It has better heatsinking than mag-lites but I think the 43°C to 46°C of my light is realistic compared to that one

Besides a lot of P7 lights are direct driven. they often forget that the current will rise up if they remove the multimeter because of its internal current measuring resistor. For example if you measure 3A then the current can rise up to more than 3.5A if the multimeter is removed and that causes more heat


----------



## gmcjimd (Apr 7, 2009)

Hi there Der,

That is a great looking light! Are you ready to sell the kit?

Thanks
Jim


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 7, 2009)

Not yet. I think they will be available on 15th or 16th.


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 7, 2009)

Ok, it seems like the pot was turned when I put everything together --> leds underdriven. The light is getting pretty warm now after a few minuts but it is still in the working specs I think


----------



## sylviocc (Apr 7, 2009)

Driver??

What driver do you use???

Regards.


----------



## WERNER1 (Apr 7, 2009)

Define "Pretty Warm" ?? .. 

Is there a problem in Under-Driving the LED's? ... if not,.. and you're happy with the results,.. then you could just leave it the way that it was (???) .. 

Just thinking out loud .. 

Rick


----------



## f22shift (Apr 7, 2009)

nice beamshots.

my tri p7 gets insanely hot on full pwr..


----------



## wquiles (Apr 7, 2009)

Der Wichtel said:


> Ok, it seems like the pot was turned when I put everything together --> leds underdriven. The light is getting pretty warm now after a few minuts but it is still in the working specs I think



That is more like it. Physics dictate that at close to 30 Watts it "had" to get warmer. If you later have time, please take the temp measurement again after 10 minutes (and please do let us know the ambient temp as well). It would be good to have another reference point for these builds 

Will


----------



## Al Combs (Apr 8, 2009)

It's amazing to me how free of artifacts your beamshots look. Especially considering the use of smooth reflectors. The wall shot is barely showing a trace of darkening at the center. Something you'd expect from a smooth reflector P7 build. The road and the tree show no trace of it. Your reflector guy really did an excellent job.


Der Wichtel said:


> Edit: A few more pics...


----------



## Al Combs (Apr 8, 2009)

There are a few things I forgot to ask. Is your heat sink clear anodized? If not, how did you manage to glue down the P7's using your MX-2/Epoxy mix, without shorting them out? I liked the way your first homemade P7 had a heat sink anodized with a color that matched the light. That would be awesome if you could offer it as an option. Red goes good with black too. Finally, would it be possible to buy a set of three reflectors and a heat sink, but without the regulator?


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes the heatsink is clear anodized.
It would be very difficult to let them anodize the heatsink in different colors because the minimum order quantity is not that low you know...

The red heatsink was self anodized. I anodized the half day with very low current in order to prevent heat which causes worse anodize quality.

In the wintertime I was even able to get something near HAIII. I just but the acid bath pot into the snow and let it run over night.

What I got was a very dark anodizing which wasn't scratchable with my knife.

So if you want other colors you can try anodizing by yourself.

All you need is sulfuric acid or acid from lead batteries, a power supply and aluminium.
I used dye color for clothes which is uv stable. came out very well.

And yes the parts will be separately available.


----------



## Al Combs (Apr 8, 2009)

Hmm... I wonder what my wife would say about a big pot of acid in the refrigerator?



Der Wichtel said:


> In the wintertime I was even able to get something near HAIII. I just but the acid bath pot into the snow and let it run over night.
> 
> So if you want other colors you can try anodizing by yourself.
> 
> ...



Excellent, I'll be watching this thread. 



Der Wichtel said:


> And yes the parts will be separately available.


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 9, 2009)

if you hold the current low then you don't need the fridge :thumbsup:

Anodizing produce hydrogen. If you do it in your fridge and if I were your wife then I would rather wonder why my fridge go


----------



## rizky_p (Apr 9, 2009)

Very nice setup, :twothumbs


----------



## sami_voodoo (Apr 12, 2009)

Kudos for a great project! :twothumbs The light looks very nice!

However, just to put things in perspective; Budget for the tri-P7 light:

Mag 4D = $40.00
3x DSWOI P7 = $86.00
4x 18650 = $20.00
2x Li-Ion chrgr = $18.00
DerWichtel kit = €45.00=~$60
Total = *$224.00 *

I'm not missing anything am I? I think I'll have to stick with a single P7 DD 2D Mag for the time being. I'm hunting one on ebay. I already have an H22A heatsink. Then just a P7 LED to get from Photonfanatic, 3 C-cells and off I go.


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 12, 2009)

It all depends on where you buy your components.

Mag-Lites are much cheaper in the US compared to Europe for example. One charger is enough I think and you can get DSXOJ P7 for 20$ each. I like the DSWOI more than DSXOJ. you have to see for yourself if it is worth the 8$ difference.


----------



## sami_voodoo (Apr 12, 2009)

True, Everything starts to get expensive as soon as you start shipping stuff . Still, it's good to know that an "almost" turnkey solution is available for tri-P7 Mag. And it's probably the most efficient 2K+ torch lumens you can get (short of going for HID - which is fragile).


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 14, 2009)

The reflectors arrived today. I will start a new topic in the B/S/T section tomorrow.
BTW they seem to focus the light a little bit better...


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 15, 2009)

Here is the sales thread:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2919842


----------



## supasizefries (Apr 15, 2009)

Any runtime data yet on your setup? I'm wondering if this can be done with a 3D or even a 2D form factor. Great looking light!


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 15, 2009)

I forgot to take my charger with me so currently I don't have any chargers for 18650 batteries. And I want to play with it for a little while so I try to safe as much batterie as I can.

In the next two weeks I'll get my charger back and will try to make some runtimetests. I think the runtime is about 50min.

I think you can fit some 17650 cells into a 3D Mag or use some 18350 cells even in a 2D.


----------



## Icarus (Apr 15, 2009)

Very nice! :twothumbs


----------



## Eirik (Apr 16, 2009)

do u have a pic of your tail cap mod?


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 16, 2009)

sure:






Remove the anodizing with sodium hydroxide ( NaOh) or Drano or anything else that contains NaOh.
Then take a piece of foam and wrap some copper wires around it. Thats it....


----------



## Techjunkie (Apr 16, 2009)

Der Wichtel,

This is so impressive. You're a one-man-band, engineering the parts youself, getting them manufactured to your specs, and then constructing the mod. You should be extremely proud!

Now for a question... It appears that your driver isn't heatsinked or potted in any way. Does it not generate that much heat, or is it in no danger of burning itself up after many extended run periods? 

It seems to me that the only component missing from your kit is a custom battery carrier to go with it  :naughty:


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 16, 2009)

thanks, I think there are already pretty good batteryholders here. The only thing that I might think of are 18650 to D size pvc tubes but I think they were already available somewhere. I have at least seen some of them around here.

The driver doesn't generate that much heat. But of course potting it will increase some % in efficiency since the resistance in the mosfet and in the whole circuits will get lower


----------



## alpg88 (Apr 16, 2009)

wow, holly s#$%$&t.
awesome job.


----------



## dm98101 (Apr 20, 2009)

This is a great. I would like to ask you if you can tell me is it possible to buy such a light from you? I m not E engeeener and would not be able to ensamble such a light. If yes please sms me on I m Mirza from Denmark. Thanks  

And if not is it possible for me to ansamble light


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 20, 2009)

Hi,
have a look on this thread
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/member.php?u=70855
there you can get the kit to build it by yourself

By the way. You should not post your phone number in the internet...


----------



## CaveDude (Apr 21, 2009)

Possibly the most gorgeous photo I've ever seen on CPF. Nice work!


> Same distance from the other side:


----------



## jetset (Apr 23, 2009)

that´s awesome Wichtel!!! nice mod, nice video
:twothumbs

how much space is left in the Mag after inserting the 18650s?

da ist man mal "kurz weg" schon knallt´s
sauber, sag ich!

gruß aus bayern


Tamiya-jetset


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 24, 2009)

Hi,
there is about 3mm left between tailcap and batterie

Grüße zurück aus dem Norden


----------



## ace0001a (Apr 25, 2009)

Der Wichtel said:


> Hi,
> there is about 3mm left between tailcap and batterie
> 
> Grüße zurück aus dem Norden



18650 batteries can vary in length as we all know. What brand of 18650s are you using? Will protected 18650s fit?


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 25, 2009)

Yes I'm using cheap trustfire batteries which are protected.


----------



## supasizefries (Apr 27, 2009)

Hi Der Wichtel, I saw your video on youtube. What kind of wire are you using to connect all your p7's? It looks like bare wire to me without insulation. Is that right? I was thinking about using some teflon wire to connect my emitters together.


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 27, 2009)

The wires are insulated. They are called enamelled copper wire and are used in inductors or transformers.


----------



## supasizefries (Apr 27, 2009)

Thank you very much for clearing that up:twothumbs I'm looking forward to receiving the kit I ordered in your other thread and putting together this build. I still need to get a host though. :laughing:

Another question sorry, in the video it looks like you de-soldered one of the 3 wires on the buck converter. Did you then solder one of the leads from the emitter to the converter directly?


----------



## Der Wichtel (Apr 27, 2009)

That's correct


----------



## supasizefries (May 6, 2009)

Just finished my tri-P7 Mag with your kit last night. I have to say, this is an EXCELLENT kit! :thumbsup::thumbsup: This is one of the brightest lights I own right now. 

I had a question for you: Is the base of your heat sink supposed to fit inside the battery tube? I finished putting it together really late last night and at the time I couldn't screw the head down past the top O-ring on the battery tube because it seemed like the heat sink was not fitting into the tube. Maybe I didn't try hard enough to get it to fit properly inside since it was so late when I finished it. I currently have the sink seated in the head but it's base it currently outside the battery tube. Is this the way it's supposed to fit? I'll see if I can post pics of what I'm talking about some time later. I'm not sure if I'm being clear with my explanation.


----------



## Der Wichtel (May 6, 2009)

Hi,
yes the base should fit into the tube.
The problem is that the colored Mags have a slightly smaller inner diameter than the black Mag-Lites. You'll have this problem with all heatsinks.

I put the base of the heatsink in sodium hydroxide / drain cleaner for a few minutes.


----------



## supasizefries (May 6, 2009)

Ahh I see. I happened to use a Silver Mag for this light instead of black and now it's giving me a slight problem.  Oh well. Maybe I will hone the inside of the battery tube to get your heatsink to fit. Right now, I'm only doing 1-2 minute bursts so the heat is not a factor yet. I have to say again, you've really done an oustanding job here with this kit. Thanks again!


----------



## supasizefries (May 7, 2009)

Just an update: Turns out your heat sink fits my Mag tube just fine. It was a very tight squeeze but with some thermal compound it fits just right now. 

I was measuring the current by connecting my DMM in series with the LED's and noticed that the current was increasing as time past. I'm assuming this is due to the increase in temperature of the LED's? I'm worried that maybe my layer of adhesive between sink and p7 slug may be too thick to conduct heat at an acceptable rate? When you've measured current, do you take into account the initial reading or do you wait until it's stable. Just like you said, I've limited the current to ~2.4 A when the DMM is connected, but it increases at steady rate when I leave it on. So as of right now, I'm kind of hesitant to keep the light on for more than a few minutes. Do you have any advice?


----------



## Der Wichtel (May 7, 2009)

You can set the current a little bit lower
2.2-2.3

There won't be a noticable difference


----------



## supasizefries (May 7, 2009)

Thanks for the advice. I decided on that range last night just to be safe.


----------



## diverjoe (May 16, 2009)

[email protected] - please contact with availability and cost for kit to US.

Thanks!


----------



## Zangetsu (Nov 24, 2009)

how many lumens and what is the runtime?


----------



## malojie (Nov 28, 2009)

got my kit and got it installed....WOW!!!  this is fantastic piece of kit!! just lights up the whole place ,thanks Der Wichtel for comming up with this amazing kit!!:twothumbs


----------



## Rex32 (Dec 17, 2009)

Is there anyway to put a custom end cap on the front of the light and mount the batteries elsewhere for a bike setup?


-Mike


----------



## Der Wichtel (Dec 20, 2009)

Do you mean something like this?
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/240186


----------



## metalmania (Jan 1, 2010)

I think you woke up the neighbors with those beam shots:tired:


----------



## Magic Matt (Jan 2, 2010)

I really enjoyed watching the assembly video. Very interesting and inspiring, thank you for sharing!


----------



## gsx1300rtn (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm interested in building one of these flashlights but i am curious what kind of batteries you guys are running and how long there lasting?


----------



## Der Wichtel (Jan 16, 2010)

From the first post:


> 4x 18650 batteries are used to power the light up


----------



## gsx1300rtn (Jan 17, 2010)

Der Wichtel said:


> From the first post:




Sorry, i missed that. 

But i was also curious if anybody had tried any other battery combination's?


----------



## Luke-299 (Apr 17, 2010)

Hi! I am new to this Forum. My Name is Lukas and i am From Austria ;-)


I have a few questions: 

- How long does the 18650 battery last on High mode?

- Has anybody tried other cells than 18650? 
I know of the 12AA to 4D cell adapter but unless you use "High Capacity" (Which means expensive) AA-NimH Cells the Energy Density is kinda low.

I have trouble to find rechargeable Li-IOn D-Size Batteries. 
I dont really trust those China Made "all Black" D-Size Li-Ion's from Kaidomain. 

Somewhere else somebody had to mod them for a slow start to prevent them from shutting down because of the Protection Board.

I also don't know if they can handle the high Current.

Has anybody tried them in the triple P7 from Wichtel?

I hope you can help me.


Best regards, Lukas


----------



## vigalass (Apr 17, 2010)

Outstanding innovation. The pictures were amazing. Obviously we're eager to get run time and lumens at the lamp when you have time. You'll probably too busy with all the purchase requests you're getting.

I'm sure i'll be in line soon.


----------



## alpg88 (Apr 19, 2010)

Luke-299 said:


> Hi! I am new to this Forum. My Name is Lukas and i am From Austria ;-)
> 
> 
> I have a few questions:
> ...


my 3xp7 runs on 6x18650. 3s2p, dual bored 4d mag, runtime is about 1.5hours, but i can't run it for that long non stop on full power, heat becomes an issue, so if you building one, my advice get multimode driver, imo for that light it is a must.

i also have 12aa adapter that i sometimes use in the light, i use eneloops,. capacity is half of 18650's that i have, so is the runtime. eneloops are 2000mah, i know there are aa cells of larger capacity, 2500 or so, but eneloop's quality and low self discharge rate, compensate for lower mah's.

as for d cells, i, ve never seen li ion d cells made anywhere other than china, (doesn't mean there aren't, i just have not seen them) kd sells 2 types, blue (unprotected, and black(protected), i have ordered them for my halogen 100w project, when i get them and test them i'll post results.
32650 (d cells) have capacity 5000mah, 2 18650 in parallel have the same capacity, sometimes more (depending on cells), so no need really to use d's that you don't trust. however you'd need to spend some money on machine shop to dual bore the light, i spend $60 , but it was worth it.


i don't know about protection modding on those black d cells, but if protection kicks in that means voltage is low, or drain is too high, so it drops volts rapidly, 
good thing i have slow start switch on my halogen project,


----------



## HarryN (Apr 19, 2010)

sami_voodoo said:


> Kudos for a great project! :twothumbs The light looks very nice!
> 
> However, just to put things in perspective; Budget for the tri-P7 light:
> 
> ...




This is the challenge with all hobby stuff - it adds up. I justified nearly $ 200 worth of charger and power supply (Triton II and PS) by convincing myself that it is a universal charger, and we really do use it to charge just about everything from r/c, yard clippers, etc.

It is remarkably difficult to build and sell any kind of substantial drop in, with LEDs, for under $ 125 - 175, which is roughly where this setup is. Still, compared to what a car hobby would cost, this is relatively cheap. :shrug:


----------



## Hexenjäger (Jul 7, 2010)

Hi you Mister Wichtel,

set 50 euro

b-mode driver


----------



## jcvjcvjcvjcv (Jul 7, 2010)

HarryN said:


> Still, compared to what a car hobby would cost, this is relatively cheap. :shrug:




Or compared to smoking. Smoking away 3 bucks a day is gonna buy you a modded MagLite every season.


----------



## hron61 (Sep 8, 2010)

hi.
this just what i have been looking for. my first mag light. 
a couple questions please... what mag light do i need to get? what is final price including shipping to usa? and is everything included in kit minus batts and host? and are they available for sale and in stock? thanks, ron


----------



## DAVEVO (Oct 26, 2010)

Would a constant 13-14.5v run the LED's? as an alternative to the batteries.

I am thinking of using a set up in my car as aux lighting.

Thanks.


----------



## dakyone (Apr 5, 2011)

Do you still have more of those heatsinks?


----------

