# Petzl RXP vs 130 lm Princeton Apex



## Briggz (Mar 28, 2009)

Need a bright headlight and I am debating between these 2. Any thought or opinions would be appreciated


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## North61 (Mar 28, 2009)

After looking at the Petzl XP and PT Apex at MEC and examining the ergo's and then reading everything I could on this forum I ordered an RXP off eBay. I am extremely happy with my choice though no doubt would have liked the Apex too. 

The Petzl is bright, light and very easy to wear. Extremely comfortable. The programmable feature is great. I took it down a notch from the factory settings and have programmed level 7-4 and 1. These levels all give a useful battery life that is very important to me. Level 7 gives 59 Lumens for 2 hours, Level 4 gives me 25 Lumens for 10 hours and is a great all-round trekking light. Level one is all that's needed for general camp work and gives 35 hours of 8 Lumens intensity. If experience tells me I need less or more I can reprogram in about 30 seconds.

Level 9&10 are too much for the battery potential of three AA's in my opinion. The light won't regulate on 8&9 as the power drain is too much. I think they wanted to have these levels as an advertising gimmick to match up with the Apex. This it can't quite do as it has only 75% of the battery power of the standard 4 AA Apex.

For the occasional time when real power is needed, the BOOST function gives a pretty impressive beam. I love the diffuser and with the diffuser on this lamp really gives great visibility into the peripheral. The Diffuser also gives very good visibility of snow conditions and topography. Without the diffuser the LED has a fair balance of throw and spill all by itself.

I use my lamp for cross country skiing and Level 6 or 7 is plenty even for speedy downhill sections. Level one makes a great reading and tent light and again the diffuser gives a great soft glow. If I bought for canoeing I would have bought the APEX for it's better waterproofing. Up here in the Arctic canoeing season means 20-24 hours of sunlight so no headlamp is neccessary. For winter use I liked the better, tougher plastic of the Petzl along with lighter weight.

Can't really go wrong with either.


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## tnuckels (Mar 30, 2009)

Following are some of the pros and cons of the two lights, which you have to weigh according to your own requirements, as none of us can really say what is important to you. Caveats are in _italics_:

*Princeton** Tec Apex:*
≈$70-80, depending on model: standard, extreme, or pro, for 130lm max
IPX7, waterproof to 1m for 30min
Regulated “_as long as the batteries have sufficient voltage_”
Effective external heatsink _should_ help to extend the life of the LED
6v power source _should_ last longer, depending on lighting level and efficiency
Both beam patterns, spot (main LED) and flood (5mm x 4 LEDs), only have high and low settings
In previous versions 5mm LEDs have had a bluish cast, _not sure about current version_
I’ve read on CPF that the plastics used may cause weak hinges
Battery Power Meter (BPM) ~ _don’t know how this works_
Uses alkaline, NiMH rechargeables, and primary Lithiums
Great customer support if problems do arise
9.8 oz with batteries (per BG website)
Made in USA
Limited lifetime warrantee

*Petzl MYO RXP*
≈$90 for 140lm, 20sec Boost to 160lm max
IPX4, only water resistant to splash or spray
Regulated levels 1-8, 9, 10, and Boost are not, _likewise till the batteries get too low_
Same heatsink as before, _not that that was necessarily a problem_
4.5v power source _may_ run shorter, depending on lighting level and efficiency
All lighting levels available as spot or flood (via flip up diffuser) beams
3 levels user set from a group of 10 in any order you see fit (H to L, L to H, whatever)
Blink mode set from a group of 3 (fast strobe, slow strobe, SOS)
Boost always available at the press of a button
On/Off lockout & detachable top strap
Power level indicator (green, yellow, red)
Uses alkaline, NiMH rechargeables, and primary Lithiums
Very good customer support if problems do arise
6.3 oz with batteries (per BG website)
Made in France
3yr warrantee

There’s really no clear winner here. My winner will not, despite employing my best logical criteria, necessarily be any one else’s winner as we’re all looking for different things.

I chose the RXP because I love the diffuser on my Tikka XP which allows me to go from a long distance throw/spot beam with adequate spill to a Zebra Light like ambient flood light, instantly and back again, so easily. Setting the levels to my preference and regulation were nice extras, but not really necessary. I discounted the Apex because of the tint of the flood light and the plastic problems I’d read about on CPF, though it had been top of my list previously. 

But … that’s just me.

Good Luck!


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## NoFair (Mar 31, 2009)

With a couple of minutes work a PT Apex can use any battery pack up to 8.4V. 

The battery indicator blinks green, yellow or red depending on battery voltage. 

I use mine with either the stock 4AA pack, 2 cr123/R123 pack or a 2 18650 pack. 

The Petzl looks nice, but I prefer the Apex. 

Also because I can swap emitters in an Apex in about 10 minutes and haven't checked if this is doable with the Petzl.

Sverre


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## cave dave (Mar 31, 2009)

PT rates there lumens out the front while every light from Petzl seems much dimmer than claimed.


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## noelex (Apr 1, 2009)

Petzl did not do handle their wiring problem well. Apex has a much better reputation for replacing units that are defective.


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## vtunderground (Apr 1, 2009)

I keep thinking that the Petzl looks good, but the dismal runtime keeps be from buying one. I suspect that Petzl is using a buck converter, when a buck/boost converter might be more appropriate for a 3-cell light. Just an idea.


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## uk_caver (Apr 1, 2009)

vtunderground said:


> I keep thinking that the Petzl looks good, but the dismal runtime keeps be from buying one. I suspect that Petzl is using a buck converter, when a buck/boost converter might be more appropriate for a 3-cell light. Just an idea.


One 3xAA headlight I have does use a buck/boost regulator, and it ends up cutting out when the cells get flat - possibly good for absolute max full-power runtime, but otherwise not the best design.
In fact, that was about the only drawback with the light, since it was pretty well-built, shockingly easy to mod, and was being sold off at seriously cheap prices.

As for the Apex, maybe the IP rating isn't necessarily something to rely on, especially as they seem quite eager to fail if they ever do leak.


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## Ralph_S (Apr 2, 2009)

uk_caver said:


> As for the Apex, maybe the IP rating isn't necessarily something to rely on, especially as they seem quite eager to fail if they ever do leak.



The following long and growing thread concerns use of the Apex for caving. There are comments on leaks, and mods involving tub caulk or the like. There are comments on cracks in the housing, and mods to avoid them. The cracks in the housing probably don't cause the leaks. The consensus seems to be that the light may not be waterproof as purchased, but the price is right. 
http://www.forums.caves.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=600&start=615

My Apex developed cracks in the hinge, apparently while sitting in an Otter box on my sofa. I have used the light a few times while walking, and several times at home. When the light has not been on my head, it has been in the Otter box. I have not abused the light at all. There are three pieces of plastic that extend from the head, into the hinge. The thinner, outer pieces of plastic have the cracks. The thicker piece of plastic in the center of the hinge is intact, so the light still could be used. 

I don't use the light now, because the rubbery plastic ribbing on the back of the battery compartment, and little ridges on the clips that hold the cable to the headband, poke my head. I don't have a lot of hair for padding; you may be luckier. Also, I am not enthused about the distribution and blue tint of the light from the 4 LEDs. The high beam is ringy, but bright. I guess that the wires between the battery compartment and head are less likely to break because they are free to adjust within the cable.? I have the 2007 version of the light.

Instead, I use the Myo XP, which does not poke into my head; does not tend to slide back (3 AA batteries instead of 4, plus a lighter battery compartment); has a smooth beam, with or without diffuser; and has a head apparently made of polycarbonate. However, I am careful not to bend the cable much, and never in a tight radius. That light also lives in an Otter box, when not on my head. I am guessing that my comments on the Myo XP would apply to the RXP.


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## tnuckels (Apr 2, 2009)

cave dave said:


> PT rates there lumens out the front while every light from Petzl seems much dimmer than claimed.


Yes, this has been suggested previously, though rarely stated outright. So, there’s probably no lumen advantage for either light, and even if the manufacturer’s optimistic figures are to be believed, 20, 30, even 40 lumens or more may not be a hands down, on the ground, noticeable advantage.




noelex said:


> Petzl did not do handle their wiring problem well. Apex has a much better reputation for replacing units that are defective.


Somebody! please, _Please_, just *SHOOT* me … 




vtunderground said:


> I keep thinking that the Petzl looks good, but the dismal runtime keeps be from buying one. I suspect that Petzl is using a buck converter, when a buck/boost converter might be more appropriate for a 3-cell light. Just an idea.


This is, I think, where it gets confusing. Trying to decide if the Apex’s 1hr of regulated 130lm beam that illuminates for 88m, followed by 72hr of burn time till dead is truly better than the RXP’s 1hr of regulated 71lm beam that illuminates 64m, followed by 54hr of total burn time is somehow conclusively better, given all the other pros and cons of each light is, me thinks, next to impossible. It’s like saying, “My laser runs forever on a single set of cells and throw is awesome”, all of which are true, but just try and navigate an unknown wooded trail with it. The figures on paper say one thing, the rhetoric from the manufacturer paints a pretty picture, but reality proves to be something else altogether.




uk_caver said:


> One 3xAA headlight I have does use a buck/boost regulator, and it ends up cutting out when the cells get flat - possibly good for absolute max full-power runtime, but otherwise not the best design. In fact, that was about the only drawback with the light, since it was pretty well-built, shockingly easy to mod, and was being sold off at seriously cheap prices. As for the Apex, maybe the IP rating isn't necessarily something to rely on, especially as they seem quite eager to fail if they ever do leak.


*UK Caver* strikes yet another blow for broader thinking and real world applicability …

This is what I’m thinking as well. The most sophisticated design that devours batteries and spits out the terminal ends is not necessarily the most well suited light for every task out there.

I also spent some time poking around the caving forums only to find that, while a neat design and laboratory claims might float a CPFers boat, repeatable tried and true durability under adverse conditions are what _real_ cave men go for. In this respect I was disappointed to find that the Apex is not necessarily everything that PT might claim it to be. I didn’t explore the Petzl much on the cave forums as its weaker points are clearly spelled out.


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## NoFair (Apr 2, 2009)

My 2 Apex'es have worked without a hitch since they first came out. I don't use alkalines so high mode is 3+ hours (lot longer on 18650s). 
With NiMHs I get low for at least 12 hours after those 3 (forgot mine outside in the snow once..)

I have lubed all gaskets and think this has helped with keeping mine working even though they have been wet and cold during most of their use. I did have some condensation in one, but opened it up and lubed the gasket and no problems later.

None of the 4 Apex lights I have seen have had bad beams, the new 130 lumen ones have broader smoother beams though.

I've had bad experiences with Petzl before, but haven't tried the RXP. 

Sverre


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## vtunderground (Apr 2, 2009)

uk_caver said:


> One 3xAA headlight I have does use a buck/boost regulator, and it ends up cutting out when the cells get flat - possibly good for absolute max full-power runtime, but otherwise not the best design.



That's a good point. I used to cave with a Pelican 2630 that had 3xAA and a boost/buck converter... It got great runtime, but would cut off when it dropped out of regulation. I don't mind that though, because no matter what headlamp I'm using I change the batteries as soon as it drops out of regulation (and with NiMHs there's not much runtime left after it drops out of regulation anyways).

edit: I've had good luck with my Apex... When I first modded it I overtightened one of the screws and cracked the plastic, but PT replaced the light, and since then I have had zero problems. No cracks, no broken plastic, no water infiltration. I've used use it about twice a month for cave & mine exploring, for about 3 years now.


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## tnuckels (Apr 2, 2009)

I had some vague impression that it was a particular color or colors of the Apex that were having the plastics problem, but not all. Any one else heard of this?

I also wonder if, by saying a product is waterproof, perhaps users ascribe additional durability to the product and treat it less carefully than might otherwise be the case, thereby leading to more problems because it is taken on the more extreme trips?


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## Mattole (Apr 3, 2009)

Hello everyone - my first post here in the Headlight section.

I have a PT Apex Pro and like it, but find that I would like longer throw from the spot beam. Oh well, maybe in the next version..

I see reference to using the PT with 18650 batteries, and am wondering how much this increases performance/runtime, and how I would go about configuring the light for this battery option. Thank you.


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## Offroad'Bent (Apr 3, 2009)

Mattole said:


> Hello everyone - my first post here in the Headlight section.
> 
> I have a PT Apex Pro and like it, but find that I would like longer throw from the spot beam. Oh well, maybe in the next version..
> 
> I see reference to using the PT with 18650 batteries, and am wondering how much this increases performance/runtime, and how I would go about configuring the light for this battery option. Thank you.



My modified PT Apex lights have an SSC emitter with the stock optic, and have a tighter beam with a longer throw, around the 120-130 lumen range.


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## drmaxx (Apr 4, 2009)

Ralph_S said:


> My Apex developed cracks in the hinge, apparently while sitting in an Otter box on my sofa. I have used the light a few times while walking, and several times at home. When the light has not been on my head, it has been in the Otter box. I have not abused the light at all. There are three pieces of plastic that extend from the head, into the hinge. The thinner, outer pieces of plastic have the cracks. The thicker piece of plastic in the center of the hinge is intact, so the light still could be used.



Same in my case (I used it a little more however). I sent Pinceton Tec an e-mail and they replaced the plastic cover for free.


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## noelex (Apr 4, 2009)

The cracked case in Apex models has been caused be slightly too long self tapping screws used in some models. Some owners have removed the screws and filed off half a mm or so shortening them. At least if you have a problem the manufacturer will replace the unit with no questions asked unlike Petzl who would probably send you a sticker .


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## NoFair (Apr 15, 2009)

Mattole said:


> Hello everyone - my first post here in the Headlight section.
> 
> I have a PT Apex Pro and like it, but find that I would like longer throw from the spot beam. Oh well, maybe in the next version..
> 
> I see reference to using the PT with 18650 batteries, and am wondering how much this increases performance/runtime, and how I would go about configuring the light for this battery option. Thank you.


 
You need a new battery pack and have to solder on some contacts on the wires. 

My old set up looks like this: 





My new battery pack is this one: 
http://www.turboferret.co.uk/2holder.php in a *2S1P* (2 cells in series) nominal pack voltage 7.4V configuration. I highly recommend this and the maker.

Runtime will be about 2-3 times as long as with cr123s if you have good 18650s 

If you solder contacts on the stock cr123 pack you can switch back and forth as wanted.

Sverre

PS! A Seoul mod is extremely worthwhile and takes about 15 minutes if you are decent with a soldering iron. The mod is well documented on this forum.


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## petersmith6 (Apr 16, 2009)

go for the Petzel,my apex died after 6 months due to poor build quality.it cracks ,the hinge fell of the 4 low led are FAR too bright on low(should only need 2 on in low mode)the battrey pack filled with water when it rains and you rechargebles will rust.

my petzel is going in for two years old and going well.

oh i use mine for work so thats about 100 night shifts a year at 8 to 12 hours each.and i dont take it of my hard had between jobs so its britty well real work tested. 

the Princeton Apex would be the better light if it wasnt made from recycled lithuanian soda bottles,the low mode had a Proper low mode ( thats less light Princeton !!) possibly only 2 led on low and a little defused,not to blind other coworkers.the option to swith to an external power pack with out needing wire cutters...make it so it REALY IS water proof.
i know i chould of sent it back....but im in england..and the UK coustoms would charcge me on the return leg..oh Princeton help desk were hopless.


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## NoFair (Apr 16, 2009)

petersmith6 said:


> go for the Petzel,my apex died after 6 months due to poor build quality.it cracks ,the hinge fell of the 4 low led are FAR too bright on low(should only need 2 on in low mode)the battrey pack filled with water when it rains and you rechargebles will rust.
> 
> my petzel is going in for two years old and going well.
> 
> ...


 
UK customs will not charge you if it is marked as a warranty return item. 

Sorry your experience has been so bad, I have several and they have been good.

If you put some scotch tape over the 5mm leds you get a nice diffuse and slightly dimmer beam.

Sverre


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