# Your Ultimate (Realistic) Light -- What do you wish was being produced but isn't?



## souptree (May 31, 2008)

We all know there are a lot of elements that go into a flashlight making it into production. Technical limitations are only one factor. Companies need to consider markets, supply chains, competition, costs, areas of primary focus. Many things can impact whether we, the users, actually get our hot little hands on a product or not. Well, I don't really care much about all that. I just want cool lights.

This thread isn't about fantasy lights (10,000 lumens for 100 hours on 1 battery, which gets turned into solid gold when the cell is depleted. Only $10!!) This thread is about what COULD be produced RIGHT NOW but ISN'T.

This is what I wish I could buy right now, but nobody will sell to me:

*SureFire U1* - based on the old U2 chassis (not the UA2/UB2 chassis), just cut down to 1x123. Put a more efficient LED in it and underdrive it for a 40-60 minute runtime on high. I think is the obvious baby brother for the two new lights and a great way to continue to utilize the old platform which I am not keen to see fade away.
*
SureFire Regulated Incan Turbohead* - PK has stated that SF is not developing incan bulbs anymore. Fine. I don't like it, but I can deal with it. Why not take one of the existing turbohead lights and put a regulator in it? It will boost sales of the turbo lights and allow for additional revenue from an existing platform in the form of the bulbs. We know these exist in prototype form. A turbo A2 would be a wonderful thing to bestow on the world as a final parting shot to history.

* McGizmo LunaSol 38* - This may very well be the light I want more than any other. I doubt it's under development, but I think my brain will explode if I learn this is being produced. The S27-PD is tied for my favorite light of all time (see below). Combine an S27 reflector with the flood of a LunaSol/Mule in one light and I will have reached flashlight nirvana. Too big for EDC, but ideal for night hiking.
*
HDS/RaClicky GT* - My other favorite light is my HDS U60XRGT. There is just no other light that renders colors more correctly. It is my standard reference light. I wouldn't upgrade the LED in it if someone offered me the rarest best LED in the world and said they'd do the mod for free. I really, really, REALLY want to see Henry support the GT feature in the new Ra Clickie series. He told me he will consider it in a few months and I hope he follows through. I'd like to see other makers strive to support a similar feature in their LED offerings as well.

What are the lights that YOU believe COULD be produced TODAY that would get you excited if you learned they were actually coming?


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## BlueBeam22 (May 31, 2008)

I would want a 50 million candlepower spotlight.
It would probably have a 15'' reflector and a 35W HID bulb. I would expect it to by roughly twice as large and heavy as my 15 million candlepower Thor.

A 50mcp spotlight like this could easily be produced, but who would need such a thing? It wouldn't sell.

The largest light I know of (and have) is this one http://www.professionalsfavorite.com/professionalsfavorite/CandleSpotlight.asp
It has a larger reflector than my 15mcp Thor, and I think its reflector is also larger than the Costco HID's reflector.

I bought the Professional's Favorite 17.5mcp from Advance Auto Parts for $40.


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## Marduke (May 31, 2008)

Proton Pro with slight tweaks:

1) Totally get rid of the red LED, but keep the same UI. That is, from off, click on for high white, then hold down to dim AND from off, press and hold to ramp from minimum white brightness to max.

2) MOP reflector instead of smooth.

3) Bump up the bin to Q5 or higher


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## souptree (May 31, 2008)

I'd also like a titanium AA Minimag. :shrug:


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## qip (May 31, 2008)

single light that has a sliding adjustable body tube that can transform into 1aa - 2aa - 1cr123 - 2cr123 and had general and turbo head twist modes like fenix

user adjustable lumens
general mode levels , low low , low , med , high
turbo - max lumens & strobe or maybe max and minimum 

*reverse and tactical *clicky tailcap both in one, select via programmed clicks like 5 rapid clicks and the 6 click press and hold ,then a blink to confirm the switch 

body design and knurling grip like new LFX5T,Novatac and NDI , efficiency as good or better than a fenix,wouldnt mind a bit bigger size for heat dissipation

quality must be top notch and no issues whatsoever

willing to pay a premium as this could essentially be the last light i need :thumbsup: for general REALISTIC use of course


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## KeyGrip (May 31, 2008)

My ultimate light doesn't exist, but several makers have come close enough to make me think it's possible.

1) Two cell (cr123) max. The new E2L is about as long as I'd like to get for EDC

2) Two level, two beams with a floody low and a throwy high.

3) The ability to select low or high before turning the light on. (SF U2 and Fenix L1T do this well)

4) Tailcap forward clicky.

5) Ability to use different battery types and chemistries with different tubes

6) Easy enough to upgrade

So...who wants to make it?


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## naggalowmo (May 31, 2008)

I think I will come out of hiding  and say that a focusable E1b would be perfect for me.


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## souptree (May 31, 2008)

:welcome:


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## MorpheusT1 (May 31, 2008)

> *SureFire U1* - based on the old U2 chassis (not the UA2/UB2 chassis), just cut down to 1x123. Put a more efficient LED in it and underdrive it for a 40-60 minute runtime on high. I think is the obvious baby brother for the two new lights and a great way to continue to utilize the old platform which I am not keen to see fade away.



This one is possible with a adapter 












Sad thing is i dont remember the name of this Surefire adapter...
And i sold the lights some time ago..
I had to use a R123 to power the lights.
The Tailcap is a RPM creation but the original tailcap fits aswell.



Enjoy


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## depusm12 (May 31, 2008)

I want a HX2 Typhoon with a P7 led output at least 300 lumens, a large deep reflector like the Pelican LAPD 7060 led . It runs on a rechargeable Li-Ion battery with a quick charger that goes from dead battery to fully charged in less that 60 minutesthat you can charge in the light or out. It should come with AC/DC cords. You should also be able to buy spare rechargeable batteries that aren't some weird battery configuration that you need a PhD to find.


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## yaesumofo (May 31, 2008)

Have you been following Don's sundrop? a light designed for correct color rendition using HI CRI Nichia 083 emitters.


I am enjoying the Lunasol concept as well.
IMHO a little more dynamic range and more control would be cool.
I doubt we will ever see this due to the difficulty in obtaining suitable drivers for the current design let alone drivers which offer more options like an adjustable high and low levels.

Unfortunately I doubt we will ever see a 38mm lunasol head.
Don had a bunch of the 27's and I believe the 20mm reflectors. I suspect that his preference would be to use up as many of these as possible before having more CUSTOM reflectors made.
Personally a 38mm head would be to large for me to comfortably use on any kind of regular basis.

For me the Lunasol 20 is closest to perfect. It fits in my pocket as well in a holster. I have 2 very usable beams in one light.
The High is a beam totally on a par with my prior EDC a McGizmo PD. The low is a nice soft wide beam perfect for close-up work and night vision adjusted movement.

My lunasol 27 is also darn close to perfect. I EDC it on a lanyard around my neck. The light also fits nicely at the bottom of my pocket. 
Today The Lunasol 20 is in it's holster on my belt and the Lunasol 27 is in the bailout bag at the ready.

All that said.
I am really looking forward to seeing the Surefire UA2. In many ways with it's variable output, and the ability to focus and adjust the beam are functions which are very useful. The Lunasol has a wide low and a high throw beam.
My hope for the UA2 is that It will be able to produce a nice soft (out of focus) low beam as well as the ability to have an out of focus light at a much higher level. How nice. the ability to combine this with a high beam (very high) which can be focused and directed get me going when all in the same light. Having high dynamic range as well as the ability to focus the energy of the light soft and wide to hard and long. The direction that Surefire is going in is very much that I want to see more of. Next will be the ability to adjust the color of the beam from perfect white to any color of the spectrum. This will come in the future.
Yaesumofo






souptree said:


> We all know there are a lot of elements that go into a flashlight making it into production. Technical limitations are only one factor. Companies need to consider markets, supply chains, competition, costs, areas of primary focus. Many things can impact whether we, the users, actually get our hot little hands on a product or not. Well, I don't really care much about all that. I just want cool lights.
> 
> This thread isn't about fantasy lights (10,000 lumens for 100 hours on 1 battery, which gets turned into solid gold when the cell is depleted. Only $10!!) This thread is about what COULD be produced RIGHT NOW but ISN'T.
> 
> ...


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## MorpheusT1 (May 31, 2008)

*Lights i would like to see made...




Surefire Kroma,Seoul p4-U2 single cell with
Red,White Nichias,YG and UV



McGizmo Lunasol 23  More Nichias and a slightly bigger reflector.Implementing a virtual level using the red chip in the Dragon Led.

HDS RA Twisty Clicky pack (I know the Ra Clicky is about to be born)
Its all about the accessories. 

Surfire L1,more heads to choose from.And colors.



Cannot think of anymore now...
Oh yes..

A small P7 light similar to the Arcmania Mega Extreme...Basically a Maxlite with a P7 run from one single CR123...I believe 1400mA to the led and 20 min Runtime 
Pocket rocket indeed..*


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## Hooked on Fenix (May 31, 2008)

1. Fenix P3D with a circuit that will make it work with L1D, L2D, and P2D bodies. It also needs to have a 123A body tube wide enough to fit 17670 lithium ion cells and maybe another battery tube for 18650 cells. I don't know why Fenix doesn't make this light already. Imagine Fenix being able to produce only one product (other than AAA lights) for the heads. They could cut down on production costs by mass producing only one head for four or five lights (L1D, L2D, P2D, P3D, 18650 light), and then putting on the body tube before shipping. I want to see Fenix sell just the head also as an option for those of us that already have one of the four current models.
2. PT Quad headlight with Nichia GS l.e.d.s
3. PT EOS headlight with Cree XRE Q5 or R2 l.e.d. (optic has to be made for a cree, no rings in beam)
EOS and Quad headlights have to be made of polycarbonate like older PT lights. Polymer used now is too brittle and cracks after a while.
4. Fenix headlight that incorporates existing parts from Digital series lights.


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## jag808808 (May 31, 2008)

My ultimate edc is the LunaSol 27. What made it ultimate is having the ability to take AA batteries on the fly. It is a Tranquility Base 2AA body with a McClicky. With a simple twist of the head, I get the medium throw I need. This is my work EDC. Perfect for underdesk work, checking underfloor, and checking in ceilings. When I need a small form factor, I put the McGizmo body back on...


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## maxa beam (May 31, 2008)

Titanium body, 2X CR123(And takes rechargeables.) p7 driven to 550ish lumens, deep reflector. Multiple modes. Possible focusing?

A guy can dream.


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## Burgess (May 31, 2008)

In no special order . . . .


*Streamlight ProPolymer 4AA Luxeon *--

Upgrade to a new, "modern" emitter.
While you're at it, how 'bout "turn-the head" click-stops
for variable brightness levels ( 100 %, 25%, and 5%).



*(Fenix) Civictor V1* --

Upgrade to a new, "modern" emitter.
Keep it a single-stage light. Simplicity is the real beauty here.
Oh, and by all means, *Keep this a " twisty " !*



*TerraLux TLE-5 module for Mini-Maglite 2AA* --

This is the *Original*, 1-watt Luxeon model, now several years old.
Upgrade to a new, "modern" emitter.

This is a more modest, *Longer-Runtime* version
of their (current) TLE-5EX (EXtreme).

You can even "tweak" this *DOWN* a notch or two.
to *increase *runtime another coupla' hours.

_


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## tebore (May 31, 2008)

i'd be happy with more warm led lights. I'd be happy if my HDS EDC got u bin LEDs with 3200-4000k tint and 90ish cri.


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## maxa beam (May 31, 2008)

tebore said:


> i'd be happy with more warm led lights. I'd be if my HDS EDC got u bin LEDs with 3200-4000k tint and 90ish cri.



Lumaray has found some good warm color in LED technology.

http://www.lumaray.com/pictures/fl6_fog03_on.jpg


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## metlarules (May 31, 2008)

I would like to see the MagLed flashlights updated with a lux k2 tffc led running at a lower mahs to provide the same overall light output but with increase runtime. Another side benefit would be it wouldn't get dim after 15 mins due to lower operating temp from less mah. Oh! keep the price the same also.

A new and improved MagCharger with more battery capacity,smart charger,3 leds similar to the one that Terralux puts out. More light longer runtime.

Inova Bolt 2aa with a tfcc led ran the same as above and put the batteries in right side up this time.

An led lantern that runs on 12v(8d's in series)with an external power jack so I can run it from the truck when I camp. Maybe with that new cree 4 die chip with Off/Nightlight/Low/Medium/High as the modes.NO STROBE OR SOS!!!!!!!

A Surefire 6P/G2 that uses 2aa batteries.
I guess that's it for now. I'll probably think up some more later after a few drinks! It is Saturday night after all.:naughty:


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## kramer5150 (May 31, 2008)

I guess I have pretty low expectations....

Shiningbeam Romisen RC-N3/Q5, BUT with a twist-on tailcap.

Romisen RC-C3, with a Q5 emitter.

A surefire 6P in 2AA format, for use with 2x14500 cells. The added capacity and run time over RCR123s would be nice, and it would be smaller/lighter than a 2x18650 design.


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## Nitroz (May 31, 2008)

A 1D Mag type bodied light using an A123 cell powering the yet to be announced Cree version of the P7. I would also want this light to have a low, medium, and high setting.


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## HoopleHead (May 31, 2008)

a nautlius with a very small tailstanding forward clickie, same output and runtimes on primaries, but with a SSC P4


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## VegasF6 (May 31, 2008)

A mag D HID drop in. A ballast in the form of a dummy D cell, and a D-cell Lithium driving it. This isn't exactly a light, but parts to build one. 

A 1 amp XR-E mini-mag upgrade in a brass pill, regulated, designed to run on one 14500. 

A 2 mode single 123 based Fenix or other with click for high, twist for turbo with an R2 (or R4!! someday) in pink HA-3.

And something decent in a 2 - 18650 side by side parallel. Perhaps with a P7 with high and low, forward clicky?


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## CRESCENDOPOWER (May 31, 2008)

Surefire C4
Surefire 3P HA
Surefire 6P HA
Surefire 9P HA
Surefire 12P HA
Surefire 3 to 3.3 inch EDC less than $120
Surefire Millennium LED conversion heads (high output/big throw) for M3, M4, and M6
Fenix big thrower like Tiablo, MRV etc.
Lumapower D-mini Q5 one output stage for a lower price than the digital


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## Marduke (May 31, 2008)

Nitroz said:


> A 1D Mag type bodied light using an A123 cell powering *the yet to be announced Cree version of the P7*. I would also want this light to have a low, medium, and high setting.



It is announced, the Cree MC-E
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/198865


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## tebore (May 31, 2008)

maxa beam said:


> Lumaray has found some good warm color in LED technology.
> 
> http://www.lumaray.com/pictures/fl6_fog03_on.jpg



That's not warm. That's just yellow. There's little blue in there and no red. 

Warm means 3200k-4000k with a CRI of >90. "Neutral White" is around 6000k and CRI is between 70-80. 

Basically an LED with the look of an incan. That's my dream and it's not far off. Cree has P4 bins of Warm whites close to what I described.


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## Crenshaw (Jun 1, 2008)

A surefire L1 with a reflector and an output worthy of its fantastic build...200+ lumens.

Crenshaw


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## 2xTrinity (Jun 1, 2008)

Here's my suggestion, and I don't think I'm alone:
Compact 18650 or 18500 light, not much larger than the size of the cell
Cree MC-E (quad die) in neutral white (~4000k)
Glass TIR optic, with optical coatings to maximize efficiency
User interface similar to the LF5XT, with the following changes
Lowest possible setting of 0.1%, instead of 1%
No Latency
Thermal regulation that limits max allowable output if temp gets too high

Essentially anywhere from a fraction of a lumen (of pleasant neutral white light) for nearly a month, to over 500 torch lumens for about 40 minutes, from a pocketable light, with an elegant and highly customizable user interface.


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## aussiebob (Jun 1, 2008)

A SF A2 with a nitrolon polymer body, upgraded LED's a selector ring like the U2 for the LED's and Incan beams a forward clickie tailcap and no pocket clip.
With a choice of colours LED's and body... Tan would be nice.:twothumbs


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jun 1, 2008)

How about 2 cell Surefire lights that fit rechargeable cells such as the 17670 and 18650? How about some Surefire lights that work with AAs? Is it too much to ask for cheaper battery options for lights that cost hundreds of dollars?


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## aussiebob (Jun 1, 2008)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Is it too much to ask for cheaper battery options for lights that cost hundreds of dollars?


You can get quality cr123a's for around $1 each online, thats cheaper than many AA alkalines.


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## BigHonu (Jun 1, 2008)

Not a light, but a switch:

Push-button slider. 

The slide is mounted on the side of the light with a button on the top. 

Slide forward for brighter output, back for lower output. Use the button as a momentary or a clicky.


Only thing, is that this would almost be impossible on a 1 cell light....


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## adamlau (Jun 1, 2008)

A portable 200W HID w/ 75 minutes of runtime. That is all I ask of.


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## KDOG3 (Jun 1, 2008)

I think someone actually already made something like this by modding an older style L1:

Take the previous gen L1 body and mod it to hold 2 cells. Make it a 3 level light - 2 lumens on low, 20ish lumens on medium and like 200ish on high. It would basically be an L2 but in a much smaller package. And please use an actual reflector. I really don't see this as hard to produce and it would definetly be my new EDC!


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## 270winchester (Jun 1, 2008)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> How about 2 cell Surefire lights that fit rechargeable cells such as the 17670 and 18650? How about some Surefire lights that work with AAs? Is it too much to ask for cheaper battery options for lights that cost *hundreds of dollars?*



most of the Surefire LEDs cost around a hundred dollars.

and most SFs can use rechargable 123s of one sort or another.

then again it will be hard to please someone with user name like yours unless the brand is....


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## FlashSpyJ (Jun 1, 2008)

I´d like a U2 like light, but also a bit smaller, size of a E2E maybe a bit shorter. It should have the features of the UB2.


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## Crenshaw (Jun 1, 2008)

270winchester said:


> most of the Surefire LEDs cost around a hundred dollars.
> 
> and most SFs can use rechargable 123s of one sort or another.
> 
> ...


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## 270winchester (Jun 1, 2008)

the AA market is already saturated. Why bother enter an already cut-throat, where-is-my-15-dollar-AA-light market?




Crenshaw said:


> 270winchester said:
> 
> 
> > most of the Surefire LEDs cost around a hundred dollars.
> ...


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## Nitroz (Jun 1, 2008)

Marduke said:


> It is announced, the Cree MC-E
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/198865



WoooHooo! Thanks Marduke!


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2008)

Probably the Dexlight X-1 with some modifications.







First I'd like to see it using the CR123 battery. I don't find the 14500 batteries lasting very long. Second I'd like to see the default output at 50% power, rather than at 80%.


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## Brody (Jun 1, 2008)

What I wish I could find in a light is one with a forward clickie tailcap, and twist the head to adjust the brightness. Ideally, the lowest level would be around .5 lumens, and high should be at least 100 lumens. That way, when you turn it on, it will be at the same brightness level that you turned it off at (unless you turn the head when it is off).


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## rmorgan84 (Jun 1, 2008)

I am quite easy to plase all i would want is a rechargable torch, no more than 6" long, 120 lumen output and with a battery life of 4+ hours per charge, with a low setting of about 20 lumens with a run time of 10+ hours!


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## matrixshaman (Jun 1, 2008)

A fully programmable single cell RCR123/CR123 based light that can be programmed via a computer USB port. It would have hundreds of programming options including one to automatically turn the light on at a certain time, full lumen control, auto-shutoff control, various strobe and other functions and about a hundred other options. It's a light that would never lose interest for lack of trying new things with it. It would also be easy to upgrade the LED via plug-n-play heatsinked modules that the manufacturer would sell with the latest LED's as they come out.
I think this is do-able and realistic enough


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## maxa beam (Jun 1, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> I would want a 50 million candlepower spotlight.
> It would probably have a 15'' reflector and a 35W HID bulb. I would expect it to by roughly twice as large and heavy as my 15 million candlepower Thor.
> 
> A 50mcp spotlight like this could easily be produced, but who would need such a thing? It wouldn't sell.
> ...



The maxablaster isn't even 50 million candlepower.

The thor isn't anywhere near actual 15 million candlepower, which is in itself an inaccurate measurement.


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## pvalopes (Jun 1, 2008)

RaidFire Spear (SpearTM) design
 with a quad cree led and a extension tube 
3 modes (hi med low)


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## sawlight (Jun 1, 2008)

I would also like a SF running on AA's.
The USB progamability sounds neat as well. But why not just Bluetooth it now?

Now for my dream!! (Dream big, right?)

How about the ultimate utility light? An A2 on steroids. About the size of aC2/3, 250-350 lum incan throw, then 100 lum LED with what, four? stages that it steps down. One lum for moving around the camp, 10 for looking around inside, 40 should light up the camp site or work site fairly well, the 100 for whatever, then the incan to see what is really going on! All regulated of course.
Lots of run time, good usability with and awsome WOW factor!

Yeah, it's just a dream.


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## Nightwalk (Jun 1, 2008)

I would like a lightweight Turbohead for Fenix P2D and P3D. With only about 80-100 gramms for the whole Flashlight. 

:twothumbs


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## KeyGrip (Jun 1, 2008)

rmorgan84 said:


> I am quite easy to plase all i would want is a rechargable torch, no more than 6" long, 120 lumen output and with a battery life of 4+ hours per charge, with a low setting of about 20 lumens with a run time of 10+ hours!



Check out the Inova T4. It's not perfect, but I think it fits your general requirements.


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## Fallingwater (Jun 1, 2008)

A NDI that's powered by a 18650 and drives its emitter at full power in max mode. Oh, and no low-batt warning.

This would pretty much be my perfect light.


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## matrixshaman (Jun 1, 2008)

sawlight said:


> I would also like a SF running on AA's.
> The USB progamability sounds neat as well. But why not just Bluetooth it now?
> 
> Now for my dream!! (Dream big, right?)
> ...



I tend to avoid bluetooth and other wireless when possible - I think we'll see a rash of health problems related to these a few years down the road. Just MHO...


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## Juggernaut (Jun 1, 2008)

souptree said:


> I'd also like a titanium AA Minimag. :shrug:


 
I never thought of that, wouldn’t be cool “for me I think so” to have a 2x AAA Iridium MiniMag with a thick 3 mm sapphire lens. With a q5 LED, and much better water proofing, with the switching mecinisum made from tungsten! Think about it, the light would be completely immune to being scratched in your pocket, it’s finish would last forever “unless you carry diamonds in your pocket to”. If you kept putting batteries in it the light could last for ever. When all of humanity dies off, some new species 500,000,000 years in the future will be digging up fossils of humans and find your perfectly working flashlight:huh2::wow:, they will then copy it’s design and sell it to their own people, thus Maglites will be still in production for another half a billion years :lolsign:and when some people question the effectiveness of these Maglites they will try to improve the design and again on earth their will be hundreds of people who waist their lives away to being flashaholics :welcome:and our legacy will live on! HAHAHAHA! 


Wow I should really do that stupid research paper that I have been putting off!


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## sawlight (Jun 1, 2008)

And I thought I had issues!!


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## orbital (Jun 1, 2008)

+

A fully heatsinked P60 drop-in with an XLamp® MC-E LED using the G&P Long Focus reflector.

3-mode at 15ma~150mA~700mA. 

Thats all I ask...


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## d1dd1 (Jun 2, 2008)

A VB16 or Solarforce T7 without the Tail-Clickie (and 18650 protected support in case of the T7) :thumbsup:


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## 2xTrinity (Jun 2, 2008)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> A fully heatsinked P60 drop-in with an XLamp® MC-E LED using the G&P Long Focus reflector.
> 
> 3-mode at 15ma~150mA~700mA.


Sorry to nitpick here, but you need to specify the wiring configuration on the MC-E for these currents to mean anything. I presume you want those currents through EACH DIE. Boosting to 16V probably won't be particularly efficient. Something like 2s2p wiring, with two separate buck-boost regulators for each string, and those currents for each channel, with a common UI board controlling them, would probably be the best "one size fits all" solution, as 4 separate buck converters is downright insane...

Also, and I must insist on this -- if you're going to be dumping this much power into an LED, there MUST also be thermal feedback to limit the current and prevent overheating, especailly if someone drops one of those into an insulated 6P.


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## Crenshaw (Jun 2, 2008)

270winchester said:


> the AA market is already saturated. Why bother enter an already cut-throat, where-is-my-15-dollar-AA-light market?



because they are surefire, and people WILL buy one regardless...i probably would if its got decent features. wouldnt you? 

Crenshaw


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## Crenshaw (Jun 2, 2008)

Brody said:


> What I wish I could find in a light is one with a forward clickie tailcap, and twist the head to adjust the brightness. Ideally, the lowest level would be around .5 lumens, and high should be at least 100 lumens. That way, when you turn it on, it will be at the same brightness level that you turned it off at (unless you turn the head when it is off).



apart from your requirement for a 0.5 lumen low..

surefire has
U2
UA2
UB2

then there is the Nitecore Defender Infinity,and the nitecore Extreme



Crenshaw


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## d1dd1 (Jun 2, 2008)

... and the Raidfire Spear, but only 2-level by twisting the bezel


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## guiri (Jun 2, 2008)

For me, something very powerful (500 lumens) with adjustable beam and a modular design so that you can change bodies for different types of batteries and run times.

Also, a super low mode for super extended runtime in case of emergency.


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## [email protected] (Jun 2, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> I would want a 50 million candlepower spotlight.
> It would probably have a 15'' reflector and a 35W HID bulb. I would expect it to by roughly twice as large and heavy as my 15 million candlepower Thor.
> 
> A 50mcp spotlight like this could easily be produced, but who would need such a thing? It wouldn't sell.
> ...



I don't know about a 50mcp HID spotlight, but if a 35w HID equates to 22mcp (with whatever size reflector) I reckon my modified MotorPRO (Professional's Choice) 17.5mcp (now running a 55w HID in a 10" reflector) should be well on it's way, it's by far the brightest thing I've ever owned OR built, out shining/out throwing the multiple 130w spotlight/headlight combo on our 4WD and anything else I could throw it... 

This for me is the ultimate (realistic) portable light :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Upgrading the HID bulb & SLA battery choice would make this a completely different beast altogether! :devil:


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## gadgetnerd (Jun 2, 2008)

1xAA HDS or Novatac. The same build quality, UI, beam quality, just the different power source. 

The other I'd dearly love to see would be a 1xAA twist light where rotating the bezel through about 90 degrees adjusts the output smoothly from 0 - 100lm. Once on full, a quick loosen->tighten of the bezel gives strobe (same as NDI). From off, a quick tighten->loosen gives 5 sec locator beacon.

+1 on Marduke's great Proton Pro idea in #3. I'd buy several


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## monkeyboy (Jun 2, 2008)

Surefire Dominator 10x.

Replace both incan bulbs with the new quad die SSC P7 LEDs or alternatively the Cree MC-E. Highest available bins of course.

The B20 battery pack would be upgraded to house 4 x 18650 2600mAh Li-ion cells with a purpose built protection circuit. Balancing charger would be used for charging. Output would be perfectly regulated but dim down into moon mode before cutting out.

Low would use a single LED driven to 200lm (out-the-front lumens) in the small reflector to give a flood beam and around 10hrs runtime.
High would use the other LED driven to 500lm in the big reflector for throw, along with the 200lm low to give 700lm out the front. This would give 2-3hrs runtime.

The head would be constructed from HAIII aluminium with LEDs mounted to internal silver/copper heatsink. Battery handle would be carbon fibre or HAIII if better heatsinking was required.


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## orbital (Jun 2, 2008)

2xTrinity said:


> Sorry to nitpick here, but you need to specify the wiring configuration on the MC-E for these currents to mean anything. I presume you want those currents through EACH DIE. Boosting to 16V probably won't be particularly efficient. Something like 2s2p wiring, with two separate buck-boost regulators for each string, and those currents for each channel, with a common UI board controlling them, would probably be the best "one size fits all" solution, as 4 separate buck converters is downright insane...
> 
> Also, and I must insist on this -- if you're going to be dumping this much power into an LED, there MUST also be thermal feedback to limit the current and prevent overheating, especailly if someone drops one of those into an insulated 6P.



+

Thanks for the interest in my post, 
I'm confidant ICs will be specifically designed for these emitters for a variety of levels of regulation. 

Literally anything is possible with computer boards and ICs....fingers crossed!


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## souptree (Jun 2, 2008)

Wow, this thread has really prompted some interesting responses. 

Nice to see it has largely stayed on topic as well. Carry on!! :wave:


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## maxa beam (Jun 2, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> I tend to avoid bluetooth and other wireless when possible - I think we'll see a rash of health problems related to these a few years down the road. Just MHO...



Lol, gamma rays of much, much more energy are passing through you right now- Why do you think you get static when you get no signal, instead of silence?


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## crocodilo (Jun 2, 2008)

1. Do a Fenix P1CE with a recent emitter, using it's efficiency to extend runtime, keeping it 60-80 lumens, single mode, minimal size, ready for rechargeables, olive finish, affordable. Shouldn't be too hard to do this.

2. Better yet, but it may be a little more difficult, same body, two level: twist a bit for low mode (10-20 lumens), twist further to high (80-100 lumens).

Top both off with a nice clean beam and tint, either a small hotspot transitioning softly to a large spill (good), or a narrow spill with a large hotspot (better).

Maintaining the form factor and low price (below 70ish USD) is of paramount importance.


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## lctorana (Jun 2, 2008)

There are two questions here.

In terms of the Ultimate light, I have yet to see an off-the-shelf commercial full-size light (3C or 3D) with, say, a Cree R2 run flat-out or a P7. The 10420 from DX is absolutely spot-on concept-wise, but I'm talking better emitter and some sort of variable focus capability. Am I saying 3D MagLed with better emitter? Maybe, but I could _*never*_ spend that much on a torch, however good it is.

In terms of what I wish was made but isn't, I fervently want to see a really cheap, plastic-bodied, 3AA or 3C in-line direct-driven Cree or K2. Heck, even a Luxeon would do.


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## woodrow (Jun 3, 2008)

An inova x5 type light, with 1 recessed P7 led... Underdriven to produce 300 real lumens off 1 18650.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jun 5, 2008)

A 1D aluminum HAIII light with one bright Royal Blue l.e.d. (maybe a Cree) with a remote phosphor lens (to make it white light) with a forward clicky switch on the side and two stage twist switch on the head. Low at 30 lumens and high at 250 lumens. Must be regulated. The ability to use a lense for the phosphor coating instead of on the l.e.d. is now possible and makes more sense. The reason why white l.e.d.s. don't last as long as the other colors is that the phosphor coating burns out over time. If you can put the coating away from the warm l.e.d. (and even better, be able to cheaply replace it or use a different one for different tints), the l.e.d. will last much longer and not dim over time. Many of the upgrades so far have been from making better phosphors. Imagine being able to upgrade an l.e.d. by just changing the lens.
Check out what Lumileds is doing with recessed lighting at http://www.flashlightnews.org/story1353.shtml 
The article shows that the idea of using a phosphor coating on a lens instead of in the l.e.d. works and is going to be used in recessed lighting. Now they just have to put the technology in flashlights. We may never have to upgrade our lights again if this works. No more changing to better emmiters when they upgraded the phosphor coating. No more luxeon lottery. No more buying lights because of tint. Just pick the tint (lens) you want: cool, neutral, warm, or anything in between.


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## 2xTrinity (Jun 5, 2008)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> A 1D aluminum HAIII light with one bright Royal Blue l.e.d. (maybe a Cree) with a remote phosphor lens (to make it white light) with a forward clicky switch on the side and two stage twist switch on the head. Low at 30 lumens and high at 250 lumens. Must be regulated. The ability to use a lense for the phosphor coating instead of on the l.e.d. is now possible and makes more sense. The reason why white l.e.d.s. don't last as long as the other colors is that the phosphor coating burns out over time. If you can put the coating away from the warm l.e.d. (and even better, be able to cheaply replace it or use a different one for different tints), the l.e.d. will last much longer and not dim over time. Many of the upgrades so far have been from making better phosphors. Imagine being able to upgrade an l.e.d. by just changing the lens.
> Check out what Lumileds is doing with recessed lighting at http://www.flashlightnews.org/story1353.shtml
> The article shows that the idea of using a phosphor coating on a lens instead of in the l.e.d. works and is going to be used in recessed lighting. Now they just have to put the technology in flashlights. We may never have to upgrade our lights again if this works. No more changing to better emmiters when they upgraded the phosphor coating. No more luxeon lottery. No more buying lights because of tint. Just pick the tint (lens) you want: cool, neutral, warm, or anything in between.


I believe the remote phosphor is an excellent option for diffused genral lighting, but bad for flashlights, as you are limited to a pure flood. Also, color mixing will be a lot more difficult if your blue and yellow-green light sources are in different places, not so much a problem for diffused area lighting, but definitely a problem if you want to try to get any sort of throw.


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## led4me (Jun 5, 2008)

My ultimate light is very simple. Maybe it exist already but I don't know about it. I want:
AAA light the size of fenix E01 or smaller (Reason - standard battery and small enough to carry)
single mode (Reason - simple, I assume cheaper)
with cree or seoul or rebel led (Reason - bright and efficient)
floody (Reason - hate narrow beams)
runtime, regulated for 1 to 2 hour, as bright as possible during this time. Prefer decent output/runtime on alkaline, but okay if nimh required. (Reason - don't want to think about changing battery, even if battery is half full, I get .5 to 1 hour run time. Also, light won't get too hot.)
price around $15 (Reason - cheap enough that if I lose it, scratch it, I won't mind. I still want decent build quality.)
Buckle light seems little big and run time is too short. Streamlight microstream seems too big. Fenix l0d cost a bit too much. Fenix E01 is okay (I have one and like it alot actually), but I want something in that size that is brighter too.

So, does this flashlight exist already?


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Jun 5, 2008)

I couldn't find what I was looking for, so now I'm designing a new light.

It will be:

1.) Very Watertight. Just how much I can't say, but better than most lights not made for diving.

2.) Super-Twisty+Tactical-Press. A design I'm working on to allow for watertight twisty operation, but also give instant 100% if you push it like a tactical switch.

3.) The ability to use _*any*_ 50mm cell at least 14mm wide up to protected 18mm cell or about 18.5mm. This includes lithium, NiMH, NiCd, and alkaline in all varieties and voltages. They would be regulated in a "over 2V gets one regulation, under gets a different regulation". A spacer/extender might be made for shorter/longer cells.

4.) 3-4 levels, each settable through the press feature of the switch. UI would be similar to the Jetbeam I.B.S, but levels would be switched by turning the twisty part of the switch.

5.) 1 piece body. The only 2 body parts would be the tailcap and the body. No need for there to be more threads at the head. Lamp/LED/driver/lens changed by pulling out through the back. Outside textured, though I havn't decided how. Maybe a few different textures, dependant on model? Body has straight sides. Hard Anodized.

6.) Emitter/Reflector. Leaning towards the Cree MC-E, but we'll see how it pans out. Otherwise probably a Cree R2 with a warm tint. Optional incan. Reflectors/lens for flood, spot, or aspheric.


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## monkeyboy (Jun 6, 2008)

My ultimate pocket light would be an updated Surefire L2 using the SSC P7 or Cree MC-E. The electronics would be reduced in size (like the new L1 vs. old L1) to make the light as short as possible. The head would be slightly larger for better heat sinking and a bit more throw. It would use a 4 stage twisty instead of 2 and the levels would be 5lm 40lm 150lm 400lm (out the front). Or even a selector ring like the U2. There would also be an optional 18650 tube.

The advantages over the UB2 and U2 would be: Thinner body, lighter weight, much more compact size and simpler user interface with only 4 levels and no strobe.


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## Taboot (Jun 6, 2008)

I would like a smaller, scale replica M6... EDC-sized. 2x123, modelled after the M6 with the crenellated bezel. It would come with a LoLA and a HOLA (100 and 200). I think it would be cool.

Maybe it could use a battery holder and 3 small diameter LiIon rechargeables.


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## ygbsm (Jun 6, 2008)

A 400 lumen output Insight Typhoon (III?)/Night Ops Gladius and add a machined metal switch assembly. Put the lockout on the other end of switch rotation (because constant on is next to lockout and the switched needs to be depressed some to put the light in lockout, it is sometimes easy to inadvertently get a constant on when activating the lockout in a holster. But I prefer the user interface over anything I've tried (A2/E1B/U2). I have a Gladius and a Typhoon 2, but more power good!


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## datiLED (Jun 6, 2008)

I would like a small CR2 light that is basically a smaller version of the Fenix P1-CE. Good regulation on CR2, or RCR2 cells is a must. And I would like two, or three levels.


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## Rossymeister (Jun 6, 2008)

4 Level Lunasol 20 :twothumbs:


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## Chrontius (Jun 6, 2008)

I want a new_bulb_ for the A2 - the new nano-tungsten stuff in the pipe that can either run 12x longer or 12x brighter depending on how it's set.

Cree MC-E MagLED.

Magcharger with A2-style LEDs, and/or factory support for modding - I'm imagining a smart pack charger in the cradle that'll handle from 1-18 NiMH cells, or up to 18 Li-Ion cells - perhaps a smart charger for each type? I'm imagining a retail display of Mags, Mag-branded Fivemega-style adapters (make the cradle and adapter packs take the same plug from a power brick) and Welch-Allyn bulbs.

Now toss the nanolattice bulb in the Magcharger, add infrared reflective coating, and you've got something approaching 200 lumens/watt from the beast.



A diveable P60 host with magnetic switching.



A Griffin by Gnap modified to host a P60... smexy little light, and with a Malkoff 1x123 dropin...


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## 2xTrinity (Jun 6, 2008)

Tekno_Cowboy said:


> I couldn't find what I was looking for, so now I'm designing a new light.
> 
> It will be:
> 
> ...



This is very similar to my ideal, although good call on specifying the waterproofing. IMO if Litefulx were to release a version of the LF5Xt with 18mm Bore, and a MC-E in neutral white, that would be my ideal. Although with a quad-die emitter it would be important to include thermal regulation as well.


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## importculture (Jun 6, 2008)

Jet I pro or Jet II non-pro but with a better quality tailcap like a fenix with good tactile feedback and tailstand ability. An extra space or two to up the available programmable modes to 4 or 5. Better waterproofing and somekind of battery level indicator. Read somewhere there was a light that a red led would come on when the regulator went into direct drive mode. Something simple like that would be great. Aside from that just want more lumen output, cooler running on higher levels, and longer runtimes. And maybe recess the LED less on the JET I pro so you can use it in candle mode.


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## importculture (Jun 6, 2008)

Chrontius said:


> I want a new_bulb_ for the A2 - the new nano-tungsten stuff in the pipe that can either run 12x longer or 12x brighter depending on how it's set.


 
This nano-tungsten bulb is interesting. Thanks for the link! How'd you find out about it? I so glad there's a forum like this. There's always so much information here. I just can't seem to find enough free time to read it all.


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## tusenkonstnar (Jun 6, 2008)

I would likea L0D with better optics for a little more throw (like L1D) and also the low to be LOW.


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## Rossymeister (Jun 6, 2008)

I could go with a L0D-Q5 with a TIR Optic.

Possible Maybe?

-Aaron


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## ElGreco (Jun 6, 2008)

Surefire L1ish sized, 18500 powered (or 2x primaries w/extender), 150+ out the front, 2 stage tailcap, UA2 style flood to spot optic.


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## metlarules (Jun 6, 2008)

1)Take a flashlight like a Olight or Fenix that can run off of aa or cr123 
2)Add a aa to aaa adapter
3)Take a Mag d cell along with d to c adapter

Modify the mag so that the head of the Olight/Fenix screws into the mag and enlarge the relector opening. You would have one light that runs off of aaa,aa,c,d,and cr123. Offer it in kit form in it's own carrying case. it would be good for edc,emergency,long runtime. It will definitely settle the best battery/form factor arguments.:devil:


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## Chrontius (Jun 7, 2008)

importculture said:


> This nano-tungsten bulb is interesting. Thanks for the link! How'd you find out about it? I so glad there's a forum like this. There's always so much information here. I just can't seem to find enough free time to read it all.



Just stumbled onto it in a discussion about how incandescent lights still had major advantages over LED and HID, and wasn't as dead as people seemed to think. Found it again with a search on Google answers.


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## Troop#26 (Jun 7, 2008)

My ULTIMATE LIGHT would actually be a series of two duty lights.

The first would be an 2X18650 host (could also run on 4XCR123, just not as well I guess).

The front would have 4 new Cree R2's. One center mounted then three surrounding it in the "Peace" configuration. Outer three focused best for throw, middle LED a nice variation on throw and spill (similar to Lumensfactory D36 style of bulbs). Just below the head would be a 1/2 turn collar. Left for all 4 LED's at once right for just the center LED. LED's driven to around 250 bulb lumens a piece. At full brightness run time should be around 25 min outputting 1000 bulb lumens (or roughly 650 torch lumens). Run time on single LED around 80 min. Full regulation on both outputs, when battery's run low 4 LED's dim to just the center running. When that begins to die flashes output until dead. If just the one LED is engaged then just flashes until dead... moving selector collar does nothing (if it cant generate the power). This could too be accomplished with the new CREE emitters that have four actually emitters on one board. I saw it somewhere on here... cant find link right now. This would probably be preferable for focus as well! Should the 4led on one chip thing prove possible then a D36 size would be of preference or a little bigger, staying below a mag light "d-cell" size of reflector at all costs as it really helps balance the light.

The tail switch would be another story in it self. I have a PILA Lamp which has rear LED tail twisty with momentary "on" by pushing the tail cap. Slight turns in allow for LED tail lamps to run on with out the incan front. HOWEVER in this case I want to do it different. I want a reverse clickly ( at least I think I do, I never understood the difference) with tail lights... that is to say, the actually clicking controls the front beam. From the second the rear click portion is engaged it comes on, I prefer a rather hard to push clicky with a long throw to the actual click so it can be used for momentary. Above the tail switch portion is another collar. This collar controls the rear LED tail lights. It has three settings and turns 1/3 of the way around. The rear would have 8 LED's of the same size and variety that are used in the PILA lamps now. 4 Red and 4 White. Red are very useful for walking in the dark on trails and in bush with out being scene... White very usefull for showing people with heavy right feet where to sign on the ticket with out blinding them (or having to explain why the LED's are red at the back of your light). The collar for rear LED's would work as follows

LEFT --------- CENTER --------- RIGHT
Red LED ON______ OFF__________ White LED ON

Both the clicky and collar would work independent of one another. So pushing the clicky does not cause the LED's in the rear to come on, and having the LED's on would not effect the clicky working. This is crucial if your walking and you suddenly have to engage a target, cannot be fumbling around.

LED's again run full regulated for 20 hours on either white or red (never both that would just be silly  )

The rear "lens" would have a heavy rubber BAND on the outside that extruded past the actual tail. This unit would not tail stand. Make the touching of the switch more pleasant than plastic ridges, could also help focus the beam

Lastly all collars would have have resistance to move with positive stops. I like the ramp and pit approach increasing resistance as the switch moves towards the end of its travel until it falls over into its "grove" where it seats it self. The rear collar controlling the LED's would only cause the LED's to come on once actually seated in their grove. Moving even slightly away from that grove would cause rear lights to turn out. The front collar runs a little different. FULL is the default setting of the collar moving in any direction keeps full on until 1/4 is fully engaged. Once 1/4 is engaged moving even slightly turns full back on (of combat importance in my mind).

The light would be made of aluminum possibly with Carbon fiber used where can and would have to be submersible to around 3 meters. Antroll on the front and back of the head and tail switch are important. Head would likely have to be cut in a heat sync patter to dissipate heat from the head. 

Lamps would have to be shock isolated similar to what is found on Surefire's M-Series, though not to the extent of isolating against rifle fire, just so if you crack some one on the head with it, the LED doesn't break. Crenelated bezel a must, for reasons above and so that when the light head stands, light is still emitted. Pyrex lens front and plastic back (rubber ring extrudes past the light plastic is flush (preferably) or slightly inside (boo unrs its a dream light) the flush surface of the tail cap).

The second light would be based on a single 18650 (could also run on CR123).


Simmilar to the PILA GL2 with either a D26 or D36 head again only single R2 LED 280 Lumens full regulated 80min run time, blinks once dead)

Tail light would be described as above again. Similar styling would be used, ie heat sync cuts, even if not necessary (for familiarity reasons).



All lamp assemblies for either lamp (2X18650 or the single 18650) front would have to be drop in ready... bonus point if one could figure out a quick and tool less way to change the back assembly as well.

HAIII finish in BLACK (no gloss MATTE) or Camo Dessert or Folliage patterns. Holsters for EDC as well as duty belts would be necessary leather and nylon, also holsters for spare battery holders and lamp assemblies (one unit) as well.

Available external battery chargers, ie batteries DO NOT charge in light with both car and 120/250 leads included. 

Obviously this would require some kind of magnetic switching and alike.

Price points I would be willing to pay would be around $650 for the 2X18650 version and a more modest $450 for the 1X18650, you know or less

Personally I don't think I would build anything smaller in the series. I have difficulty holding anything smaller in length than that but I suppose smaller or bigger models in the line could be built. Parts need to be interchangeable as well, so that tail cap from one could fit on the other, heads could interchange as well even if the 1X18650 could only drive the single LED of the bigger 4 LED head.

If anyone wants to build this bad boy... let me know... non commercial custom lights might fetch a higher value that the ones listed above.

Does the term  mean anything ?

Later

Stephen


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## h_nu (Jun 8, 2008)

Lots of things I'd like. The selector ring for brightness, a metal version of the Inova Radiant with decent emitter and regulation, and a double barrel style AA. I'd settle though for a Surefire sanctioned Aviatrix style replacement ring. I want white white, not blue and LEDs off when the incandescent is on.


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## fasuto (Jun 8, 2008)

As someone said in other thread we want a
*P60 host DIVE light*


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## adamlau (Jun 8, 2008)

1. Segawa 100W handheld HID.
2. Wide body M6 to accept 3x18650.


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## jonpmc (Jun 9, 2008)

How about a flashlight with a built in photo cell so you could set the amount of light you want an a near object and the flashlight would dim or brighten so that what ever is in the center of the hotspot would be illuminated to the same level as the original set point. With a setup like that you could go from looking in the distance to reading a map without having to think about blinding yourself. Also being able to set a flashlight to just show everything in the same light would save batteries because you would have to try rather hard to always point the light at the most distant object out there. So since you are not always at full power battery life would be extended. Another idea would be to integrate some sort of range finder so that anytime the light was pointed at some less than 12" to 18" inches away the flashlight could switch to a set of red LEDs. I think that both of these ideas are implementable with the technology of today and would be useful to all flashlight users.


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## 2xTrinity (Jun 9, 2008)

jonpmc said:


> How about a flashlight with a built in photo cell so you could set the amount of light you want an a near object and the flashlight would dim or brighten so that what ever is in the center of the hotspot would be illuminated to the same level as the original set point. With a setup like that you could go from looking in the distance to reading a map without having to think about blinding yourself. Also being able to set a flashlight to just show everything in the same light would save batteries because you would have to try rather hard to always point the light at the most distant object out there. So since you are not always at full power battery life would be extended. Another idea would be to integrate some sort of range finder so that anytime the light was pointed at some less than 12" to 18" inches away the flashlight could switch to a set of red LEDs. I think that both of these ideas are implementable with the technology of today and would be useful to all flashlight users.


Interesting. I think switching to the red lights would be a bit difficult to implement well, but variable output light with optical feedback is a concept has been coming up in numerous places on this forum (and in my case, a few people have even asked me about this recently _independently_ of CPF ) 

A few things to consider here. One of them is that the light that is seen by the photosensitive element (could be a photodiode, photoresistor, or photocell) will drop dramatically as distance to the target increases. Light from the emitter will diminish as the inverse-square, and the light returning to you will ALSO diminish (but at a lower power than an inverse-square as your lit-up target will not be a point-source). Either way, the exact power isn't important, my main point is that the light will likely be running at 100% the vast majority of the time, and only drop if used very close -- don't think of it as a "battery saver" as much as a glare preventer.

And even then, setting a light light level is not the only thing to consider -- in reality it is the ratio between the hotspot and the surrounding that matters, or the glare. 

What if you were to try to light up a dark corner of an otherwise fairly bright room? What you'll need to do is put a sensor both looking forward, and several others positioned all around the light, to determine ambient conditions. If the difference between those is more than a certain user-settable amount (using a microcontroller to perform the logical operations), then current to the LED could be reduced.

A purely analog approach using photodiodes -- one set ambient and one set direct -- connected to a difference amplifier whose output is conneted to the feedback path of the LED driver would work, too. Then trimpots could be used to adjust the sensitivity.

I believe optical feedback woudl be a good idea in systems where manual control is impractical, such as on a headlamp, or autonomous robot (eg, the guys outside of CPF who asked me about this concept)


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## 22hornet (Jun 9, 2008)

Hello,

What I would really like to see:
- That all of the led-Surefires would all run safely and well on RCR123 cells.
- Peaks with clickies and/or twisties at their tail. (like Surefire)
- More lights available with colored leds (ARC AAA, Fenix, etc...)
- Some kind of turbohead you can fit on a Fenix L2D or L2T
- More led upgrade kits for the Minimag 2AAA

Kind regards,
Joris


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## liquidsix (Jun 9, 2008)

ooh ooh! Mine's simple!

I want a surefire e2l with the ui of an o-light or nightcore


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## importculture (Jun 9, 2008)

Chrontius said:


> Just stumbled onto it in a discussion about how incandescent lights still had major advantages over LED and HID, and wasn't as dead as people seemed to think. Found it again with a search on Google answers.


 
Thanks for the heads up. I really thought incans were dead tech. I really found that thread very interesting. Thanks for posting it!


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## 2xTrinity (Jun 9, 2008)

importculture said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I really thought incans were dead tech. I really found that thread very interesting. Thanks for posting it!


Well, if you read the google reply they basically specify that the press release a few years ago was very misleading -- apparently the tungsten photonic lattice has only been demosntrated to work producing narrow-band near IR radiation, which is useless for general illumination. It was mere speculation that it could be applied to produce visible light super-efficiently, actual crystals small enough to do so have never been build in reality, thus this is pure vaporware.

The concept is certainly very good -- it's similar to the HIR (halogen infrared reflection) where wasted IR radiation is bounced back onto the filmaent to re-heat it and make it more efficient, but compared to an optical coating on an envelope, this would be a quantum coating directly on the filament. Certainly at that point, the filament will really no longer be acting like a blackbody radiator at all, so whether it could be called incandescent anymore is even questionable. The concept is very interesting, but by the time it's ever made commerically viable, I suspect that the LEDs will be so cheap and improved in every way -- including spectrum, efficiency etc, that it really won't ever be commercially viable.

My guess is that the tungsten photontic lattice will also share one of the main drawbacks of traditional incandescents, that is, lack of ability to dim it without dropping the efficiency and changing the color temperature, but at this point, the posters of the article themelves admit they don't have a theoretical model of how the device will behave, so this is pure speculation.

I do think that the "ordinary" HIR concept could be improved though, at least as a substitute for existing incans in situations where LEDs will have a hard time (such as recessed insulated xtures). IMO LEDs will be best suited for brand new fixtures with dedicated heatsinking and optics, and have the potential to produce results MUCH better than anything we've seen before in general lighting.

I see some theoretical room for improvement in incans by using multiple envelopes, with multiple coatings each optimized for different wavelengths, to reflect and recycle as much wasted IR energy as possible. By including a power supply to transform 120V to a voltage more condusive to an optimum-length filament, and using those coatings, >40lm/W long-life filaments could certainly be a possiblility. I doubt there will be many companies enthusiastic to spend tons of money researchign tyhat though, as it becomes a question of cost-benefit. I suspect that an exotic multi-level, optically coated super-bulb with built in transformer will eventually be much more expensive per unit than a similar LED device in the long run, consider that LEDs are made more or less like ordinary semiconductors, thus can potentially become really really cheap in the long run.


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## eav2k (Jun 10, 2008)

A four cell 18650 light with the batteries in two rows of two cells; with an oval tube to fit the hand. Two Cree MC-E (quad die) leds one set up for max throw and one level, (high) the other with four levels and a nice even beam with little or no hotspot. UI runs high through low with the throw beam off, throw beam only, then low through high with the throw beam on, then both off. Crenelated on both ends, one tail clicky. Well made and as efficient as possible.


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## paulr (Jun 10, 2008)

Some unambitious ones:

1) Fenix L1P CE: basically the old L1P (one level clicky) with an updated led, like the P1CE updates the old P1. No SOS, no multiple levels, no twist bezel, no crap.

2) Fenix L0D CE reprogrammed to have just two levels, high and low. No medium, no SOS, no strobe. High should come on first, then low, like the E1B.

3) Peak Pacific 1AA pocket body, with properly tuned electronics and reliable contacts and with a radiused lanyard hole like a minimag.

More exotic: Spy 005 with variable focus (spot to flood). I'm waiting to see how the UA2 does it with TIR optics.

McGizmo 1-level ti light with a high CRI led -- oh wait, that's the Sundrop, I just have to catch the next wave of them .

Very powerful LED version of PT Tec 40, i.e. with a Seoul P7 or something, powered by four AA NiMH cells in a lightweight plastic body (automatic thermal sensing and cutoff).

More later, maybe.


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## Blindasabat (Jun 10, 2008)

1 Surefire T1A with a clicky and removeable clip 

2 LRI Proton Pro with throw optic, no Red LED or hidden red mode, small diffuser cover, and reversing ramping like the Gladius 

3 Smaller UA2 Optimus

4 ARC LS6 with interchangeable optic for less than $150 

5 Thinner HDS or Novatac with optic for less spill and low profile diffuser.

6 SureFire L1 with… uhhh… lower profile diffuser… more output on Hi… adjustable low… focusing… optional clicky...That light is about perfect. 

7 Generally: forward clickies, optics with spill that tapers off, two or more levels, useable UI


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## SilentK (Jun 11, 2008)

Let me use the invictus as a starting platform.

-6 degree optic
-forward clicky
-3 3mm IR leds around the primary led like the A2
-11 modes: measured out of the front
1: 0.1 lumens
2: 0.7 lumens 
3. 3 lumens 
4. 10 lumens 
5. 25 lumens 
6. 50 lumens 
7. 100 lumens 
8. 150 lumens
9. 350 lumens 
10. 450 lumens 
11. 15mw IR
-waterproof to 33 feet
-bored out for 18650 yet will hold cr123a firmly
-7.5v max

EDC 

E1B platform 

-2 modes 
-REVERSE clicky
*0.2 lumens
*120 out of the front lumens.
modes accesed by:

-high: one click performed in under 0.75 seconds
-low: one click performed in OVER .75 seconds


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## 276 (Jun 11, 2008)

Wait not producing incan bulbs, i love leds more but what will i do with my M6


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## crocodilo (Jun 11, 2008)

SilentK said:


> EDC
> 
> E1B platform
> 
> ...


 

Not to start a fight, and each has it's own opinions, needs, etc., but those two levels are exactly useless in 95% of my EDC situations. One is too high, and the other is too low. For general EDC tasks, I believe in a low 5-10 lumens, and a high 60-90 lumens.


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## FredM (Jun 11, 2008)

Surefire L4 with the P7.


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## GarageBoy (Jun 12, 2008)

A2 with more lumens, same size, without the LED ring

L4 with more efficient LED, same beam distribution

BlitZ without the secret modes


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## crocodilo (Jun 12, 2008)

GarageBoy said:


> BlitZ without the secret modes


 
Good thing about the BitZ is that they´re hidden away, quite unlike most other lights. If nobody told, one would never find them. And yet, there they are, ready for a rare chance of being needed, out of the way for the other 99,9% of days. I'm not a fan of SOS or strobes, but low-low and locator may be usefull someday, and I'm glad to have them.


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## vestureofblood (Jul 6, 2008)

My DREAM is verry simple, yet non exsistant. It starts like this. FOCUSABLE, LED , small useing 2AA Nihm or 2 14500 li-ion that is at LEAST 225 Lumens with a runtime of ABSOLUTLY NO LESS than ONE HOUR, but 1.5 would be perfect.


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## LEDninja (Jul 7, 2008)

An updated Civictor V1 with a Cree XRE or SSC-P4. The Civictor is the shortest most easily pocketable AA light. (Jetbeam did build the original CLE but discontinued it).

Update:
Ultrafire C3 Q5 with extension top, AW protected 14500 middle, Civictor V1 bottom.






Civictor body with Ultrafire C3 Q5 head. (Note Ultrafire P14500 do not fit Civictor/L1P bodies)





The Ultrafire UI seems identical to the L0D CE. So with the Civictor as my goto light and the L0D CE on my keychain as backup I am all set.


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## kurni (Jul 7, 2008)

NiteCore EX1 pushing almost 1A with thermal protection. I don't mind paying a bit more for it.


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## Crenshaw (Jul 7, 2008)

kurni said:


> NiteCore EX1 pushing almost 1A with thermal protection. I don't mind paying a bit more for it.



how about 1.3A....:huh:

Crenshaw


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## Stephan_L (Jul 7, 2008)

OK, here is the light, I am dreaming of: 

The *Fenix P4D*:

- based on the P3D body, but bigger, so it can take 18650 rechargeables
- better knurling on the whole body for better grip
- General Mode: low: <10 lumens, mid: 80 lumens, high: 140 lumens, SOS (@100 lumens)
- Tactical Mode: max: 250 lumens, tactical disorienting strobe (@ 12 -13 hz / 200 lumens)
- runtime of about 2.5 hours on max. brightness
- forward clicky tailcap switch (GITD), allowing momentary on with max. brightness (Tactical Mode) or low (General Mode)
- removeable tactical gripring (like TK10), so everybody can choose, if he likes it or not
- mode change not by turning the beezel, but by a selector ring at the tail of the light, allowing full one-hand-operation
- adjustable lanyard, that can be fixed at the wrist (like SF lanyards)
- upgradeable by changing the heads in the future

I am not an expert of the electronics, so I don't know which LED, ermitter etc. to use the best. But as long, as it fullfills the specifications above, I would *for sure* be satisfied.

I think, it would be possible, to make up a light like this right now, but - for some reason - nobody did yet! So listen up you flashlight makers: I want a light like this! 


Bye, 

Stephan


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## kurni (Jul 7, 2008)

Crenshaw said:


> how about 1.3A....:huh:
> 
> Crenshaw



I wouldn't mind that either; I'm just mindful about greater heat dissipation without much gain in *visible* lumens when it's 1A or more. The important thing is heat protection because it's such a small body (which is the point of EDC)


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## kurni (Jul 7, 2008)

Stephan_L said:


> - based on the P3D body, but bigger, so it can take 18650 rechargeables
> - better knurling on the whole body for better grip
> - General Mode: low: <10 lumens, mid: 80 lumens, high: 140 lumens, SOS (@100 lumens)
> - Tactical Mode: max: 250 lumens, tactical disorienting strobe (@ 12 -13 hz / 200 lumens)
> - runtime of about 2.5 hours on max. brightness



I would be happy with the above *as long as* it has *constant* current regulation (buck boost); the rest would be a plus tho.


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## wwglen (Jul 7, 2008)

kurni said:


> I would be happy with the above *as long as* it has *constant* current regulation (buck boost); the rest would be a plus tho.



Right now my Nitecore (NDI) is what I like.

Only changes...

Lower low and a weapon rail mount accessory with tape switch.

wwglen


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## Stephan_L (Jul 7, 2008)

Hi kurni, 

I am happy, that other people think the same way as I do about the perfect light! If there would be even more than us two, I think it would raise the chances, that Fenix (or someone else out there) would make a light like this!


Bye, 

Stephan


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## copiertech (Jul 7, 2008)

i would love it if they made the stainless ultrafire c1 scaled up to take an 18650, but keep the head small so the whole light isnt much bigger than just the battery. that fitted with a p7 and a multimode driver would be ideal for me. the cr123 stainless c1 just has a quality feel to it and no matter how much i abuse it i cant damage the finish.


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## 2xTrinity (Jul 7, 2008)

> My DREAM is verry simple, yet non exsistant. It starts like this. FOCUSABLE, LED , small useing 2AA Nihm or 2 14500 li-ion that is at LEAST 225 Lumens with a runtime of ABSOLUTLY NO LESS than ONE HOUR, but 1.5 would be perfect.


225 (bulb) lumens can be made today with the top bin LEDs driven at about 4 watts. 2 NiMH AAs store about 5 watt-hours of energy, so this is feasible. Variable diffusion would be possible using a movable donut-shaped diffuser inside of the heat of the light that could be slid forward and back to intersect more, or less of the beam as desired.


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## vestureofblood (Jul 7, 2008)

2xTrinity said:


> 225 (bulb) lumens can be made today with the top bin LEDs driven at about 4 watts. 2 NiMH AAs store about 5 watt-hours of energy, so this is feasible. Variable diffusion would be possible using a movable donut-shaped diffuser inside of the heat of the light that could be slid forward and back to intersect more, or less of the beam as desired.


 
Could you explain this "bin" thing to me. I have read that in several places this "bin" that "bin" c-bin or somthing. Also I am considering maybe a Q5 emitter for this application, and I have been told I need a driver board also, any suggestions on exactly what driver I should use to obtain this?


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## KeyGrip (Sep 19, 2010)

Bump for an interesting thread. 

Now that two years of technological advancements have occurred, has your ideal flashlight stayed the same? Has it changed? Did someone make it? Let's keep this rolling.

My ideal EDC has changed slightly. I think I would be set for life if I could get a LunaSol 20 head, put it on a clicky body, and fiddle with the electronics to make the operation like the Quark tactical UI. That way the light would still have two levels during normal operation, but I could change those two levels whenever I wanted to fit different circumstances.


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## tandem (Sep 20, 2010)

What I really want to see are really good consumer grade in-every-hardware store lights, for low prices. Maybe the right price point to encourage most folks to buy a home flashlight is 9.99, or 7.99 - find that price point and work backwards. Deliver the most amount of usable light - doesn't have to be pure white or neutral white but can't be purple tinged. Fairly floody light. Battery vampire style design too, these are mostly going to be run on primary alkaline cells.

Single LED light. Runtime objective of 6-8 hours on high output if it is a two stage low-high light, same if it is a one stage light. 20 - 40 lumen output or even more if you can hit the minimum 8 hour runtime objective and also design a light that can be manufactured inexpensively. All this off a single AA. Make a 2 AA version that adds output and runtime but doesn't complicate the use. No gimmicks, i.e. no alternative flashing red LED in see through body. 

Side clicky *or even* a slide switch just like the old days. Has to be easy for young and old to operate. Needs to be rugged enough to withstand typical household use, being thrown in a drawer but need not be indestructible. 

Design for maximum manufacturing efficiency, as much plastic as possible. 

Price point: Single AA - 7.99, Two AA 9.99. Or 5.99 and 7.99. Or 3.99 and 6.99. Needs to be cheap enough that parents could see buying one for each of their children's rooms or backpacks. Just think, you can indoctrinate a whole new generation of potential flashoholics.

In short, someone needs to produce a light you could see being found in any hardware or home improvement store, automotive store, or even drug and grocery store shelves. Package it smartly so people know they are getting something that Just Works.

Apparently this doesn't exist because you can't find one of these in my local drug store or grocery store. Sure, you can find decent and useful lights often for 9.99 on sale in speciality stores but usually (at least here in Canada) the selection between 5 and 10 dollars is very poor indeed.


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## fyrstormer (Sep 20, 2010)

A hard-anodized aluminum McGizmo Haiku that can run on a single AA and has a high-mode of around 1 amp. That would do nicely.


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## red02 (Sep 20, 2010)

Single AA HDS Clicky
SF HS1 Saint with a 0.01lm low
Current control dimmed Photon Pro
Current control dimmed XRE R2 P60 dropin driven at 1.4A on max.


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## fyrstormer (Sep 20, 2010)

tandem said:


> What I really want to see are really good consumer grade in-every-hardware store lights, for low prices. Maybe the right price point to encourage most folks to buy a home flashlight is 9.99, or 7.99 - find that price point and work backwards.


I, for one, am still waiting for globalized manufacturing's other shoe to drop. What you're asking for can't be made for $29.99, much less for $5.99. The electronics necessary to run a flashlight on a single AA and have it be bright enough to be useful cost more than $5.99 no matter where you make them -- and well they should. The people who make those circuit boards need health insurance and environmental regulation too, even if we don't want to pay for it. Through most of human history, average people didn't own much, because stuff is _expensive_. People need to come to terms with that.


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## SimpleMods (Sep 20, 2010)

Mine would be a focusable 2D [email protected] with a 2D>6AA converter running a TLE-300m but only if it was focusable...


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## shark_za (Sep 20, 2010)

Half of the lights described are simply Solarforces! :devil:



I have simple wishes, a Leatherman S2 with a current controlled head or high freq PWM for the low.


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## RyanA (Sep 20, 2010)

I'd like to see a Surefire/Fenix hybrid. 2 modes, high with a tightened head, low with loosened and a Surefire style momentary Lotc. Make it the size of a 6p and give it a XP-G, a 1.5amp buck driver, and a smooth reflector, I'd buy it all day long.


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## Ropes4u (Sep 20, 2010)

I would like a small AA / AAA clicky with two modes, moon light and 100%, mix of flood and throw.


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## RyanA (Sep 20, 2010)

Ropes4u said:


> I would like a small AA / AAA clicky with two modes, moon light and 100%, mix of flood and throw.



Have you looked at the Quark Tactical yet?


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## tandem (Sep 20, 2010)

I understand the comment on globalization. I'm quoting prices based on my sense of the situation as it exists today. Maybe with better or something approximating proper wages and protections the price doubles. Whatever that price is, it'll be affordable.



fyrstormer said:


> What you're asking for can't be made for $29.99, much less for $5.99.



I'm thinking only of a light that has enough output to be useful rather than state of the art. Mass produced the electronics for such a beast ought to be achievable. Ignoring globalization for a moment here, if an iPod shuffle costs barely more than the price point you referenced, and is many orders of magnitude more complex than a simple current regulator, how could a mass produced module or IC and a couple of discrete parts not become a miniscule cost for such a light? 

If changing the form factor helps with the cost, then that could be done too. If keeping the output to X is required to create an all plastic light, go for it. Such a light doesn't have to fit in an ultra tiny highly machined piece of aluminium such as we are used to in these forums. 

Take your ordinary incandescent 4.99 plastic flashlight and improve upon it but not revolutionize it. Such a product doesn't need 84 hours on low. 8 would do. Find the right balance of output and runtime that can be had at a given price point and make the price point such that every day people can be encouraged to fork out some cash for a little preventative safety measure that will also come in handy next time they look for that can of paint in the deep recesses of their basement or storage locker.

Sure, there are some cheap lights at the grocery store that someone can buy today; some are incandescents and don't really have a place on the shelves but are there nonetheless. Some have horrible beam patterns or coloured output. How's a lay person to manage to pick a decent light? Luck, I guess! 

Simple, no frills -- that's what I'm thinking of. Maybe that isn't achievable today, in a factory where everyone is treated properly, but this is a day dream thread after all so dreaming I am.


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## fisk-king (Sep 20, 2010)

HDS clicky AA SLIM (size of a Arc AA, variable output from .02-200lm, high at 2hrs)
McGizmo Sundrop with a flood beam illuminating ~80'


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## Kestrel (Sep 20, 2010)

KeyGrip said:


> Bump for an interesting thread.
> 
> Now that two years of technological advancements have occurred, has your ideal flashlight stayed the same? Has it changed? Did someone make it? Let's keep this rolling.


 
I still want one of these:


CRESCENDOPOWER said:


> Surefire C4


Also, please make me a C*1* Centurion as well while you're at it, SF. :huh:


And a two-mode LD01, but with an XP-G:


paulr said:


> Fenix L0D CE reprogrammed to have just two levels, high and low. No medium, no SOS, no strobe. High should come on first, then low, like the E1B.


 

And one of these: 


Blindasabat said:


> Surefire T1A with a clicky [...]


Better yet, just sell us a T1A clicky tailcap by itself as an aftermarket part.


Also,

A SureFire 2xAAA penlight.
A two-mode Malkoff M31W
A production SF Z41 tailcap with the guts of the L1/L2 tailcap. And a _real_ 'low' while they're at it. 
A Z41 tailcap with a red 5mm LED in the 'momentary': Twist the tailcap to turn on the locator/tail-light, turn it on further to turn on the main beam as well.
A SureFire L*3* - and don't forget to bump out the ID of the body tube by ~0.015" so it can take 2x17500's.
And now that we are 'stretching' things, how about a T*2*A?


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## cave dave (Sep 20, 2010)

Well, for several years I've wanted a very small AAA keychain light that had multiple well spaced output modes and NO PWM. 4Sevens has just released the ReVo, and I've been dying for something like that for years, but as of 2010 I'm a neutral tint snob and I won't buy cool white anymore.


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## Flying Turtle (Sep 20, 2010)

Hey Dave, I think you're talking about the LF2XT. Maybe it couldn't be called very small, but it is neutral tint and you can set as many as five modes to any levels you want (or just ramp it up and down).

Geoff


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## Track Terror (Sep 20, 2010)

A flashlight that I can plug into my computer via USB and have a simple program where you get to choose how many settings from 1 to whatever and how many lumens each of them are. A beam that you could focus from flood to throw would also be cool.


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## JohnnyLunar (Sep 22, 2010)

Here are my humble "perfect light" requirements, for an EDC light:

• Runs on a single AA battery.
• High lumen OTF rating of at least 150
• Low - 2, Medium - 50
• Runtimes - High: 1 hour, Low: 100 hours, Med: 6 hours
• Adjustable focus beam from massive flood to tight spot
• Adjustable (screw-in, screw-out) tail body to allow choice of tailstand
• Forward-clicky tailcap switch with momentary on
• Removable and reversible pocket clip
• UI that cycles from High->Low->Med with the slightest press of the tailcap
• NO STROBE!
• And all this wrapped up in a light smaller than a Nitecore D10, about 80mm length x 17mm diameter (Fenix LD15 size)

My Fenix LD15 is almost perfect, but I dislike the twist for 1-hand operation, no clip, and only 2 modes. If I could have the LD15 with tail switch, higher high, lower low, and a medium, plus a pocket clip, I'd be very happy.


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## Dude Dudeson (Sep 23, 2010)

I'd like a light built into a belt, but not like anything I think is being made or sold...

The belt itself would be embedded with some kind of thin rectangular lithium ion cells, in a way that the user can't really feel them. All wiring/connecting would be within the belt, with the exception of some kind of tiny charging port.

The connection from batteries to the light would be done within the buckle, nothing exposed.

The LED assembly (as in, the "dropin") would be inside some kind of bezel that's curved in the back, and embedded into a solid belt buckle (both for heat sinking and physical room for the design), but would have the ability to swivel from straight forward to maybe toward the ground at a 45 degree angle.

The front part of the bezel (where you'd adjust the aim by tilting) would extend no more than maybe .3 inch from the surface of the buckle (when aimed straight forward), but extra room could exist within the buckle itself (and possibly even a bit behind it, the backside of the buckle could even be bulged a bit to help add room too).

Switching would preferably consist of a "clicky" activated by pressing the bezel itself.

Beam profile would be maybe twice as floody as a Qmini 123, but still have a bit of hotspot (not a pure wall of light).

The diameter of the bezel would be no larger than an smallish mens wristwatch, so as not to need a huge "Texas" buckle.

Two modes, one around 3 to 12 lumens depending on the exact beam profile, then a high mode with maybe 2 hours runtime, whatever lumen figure that comes to. Unobtrusive, almost unnoticeable, and hopefully stylish looking are the goals here.

For me it'd be the next best thing to constantly EDC'ing a headband light on my head all the time. And a WHOLE lot more practical, not to mention who'd ever EDC a headband light on their head all the time anyway?


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## Bladedude (Sep 23, 2010)

How about a design similar to the Eagletac M3C4 Triple Xpg But.....

1. Neutral Tint

2. Titanium body with capacity for four 18650 instead of two in a 4 battery cartridge to keep the length short but wider width.

3. Tailcap design like that of Sunwayman M40c except Titanium and with a forward clickie.

For me this would be the perfect all arount work/task light. High output, good color rendition, good throw with lots of useable spill, long long runtimes and not overly big.:thumbsup:

And....... How about some exsisting lights with the ability to focus from spot to flood? I know there are some out there like Coast. I like their focusing optics but not the leds they use. Can't one of the many good brands out there make a focusing system similar to Coast?


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## bmcgators98 (Sep 23, 2010)

I would like to see a Peak Logan with a multi level switch or a least a high low.


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## Xacto (Sep 23, 2010)

A Blackhawk Gladius style tailcap (with modes and all) for my Surefire 6P collection. Heck, if it would not break the bank, I would buy a couple to last the coming decades.

Cheers
Thorsten


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## JWRitchie76 (Sep 23, 2010)

Something from HDS that runs off of a single AA battery. Twisty or clicky, I don't care. If Henry makes it it will be very popular!


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## KeyGrip (Sep 23, 2010)

Track Terror said:


> A flashlight that I can plug into my computer via USB and have a simple program where you get to choose how many settings from 1 to whatever and how many lumens each of them are.



A few manufacturers have worked on that but nothing has come to market yet. Take a look at this and the update thread here.


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## flatline (Sep 23, 2010)

I'm pretty pleased with what's out there with one exception: why doesn't anyone make a 2- or 3-mode light that runs on 1xD?

Give it a plastic body so that a leaky battery doesn't ruin the light. Make the max output around 30 lumens and give it hours of runtime on a D battery that's too run down to power the bouncy seat.

It needs to survive the rough handling of a 2-year-old. Water resistance would be a plus.

--flatline


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