# New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision, AZ Project)



## gregw (Oct 16, 2005)

I came across this 50W HID that looks quite interesting.. Found this while looking at the comparison beamshots of the HID flashlights over at LightMania.

Any of our Japanese CPF members have any info on this?

The price seems relatively reasonable at 55,000 Yen (approx. US$481)..


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## MaxaBaker (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Looks to be a copyish Kumkang..........'cept more powerful


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## Sway (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Nice looking light and cute girl also, He He 

I like the style of the light and the battery meter..I'm game for a group buy if somebody wants to look into it 

Later
Kelly


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## Grox (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I'd be in for a GB if someone organizes. I particularly like the battery meter and adjustable focus.


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## AlexGT (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Anyone would like to invite them over to CPF to discuss their light? The email on the site is [email protected].

Anyone fluent in Japaneese?


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## Grox (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

They rate it at 4100 lumen. I wonder if that's bulb or torch.


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## 270winchester (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Mostly likely bulb lumen. If it's torch it means the light is producing 6000ish bulb lumen, or 120 lumen per watt. That would be something of a wonder...


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## Trashman (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

So, exactly how much is 57,750 yen in American dollars?


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## Grox (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Since you asked for "exactly"... according to www.xe.com/ucc

57,750 yen is 507.178 USD

*At the rate 1 JPY = 0.00878231 USD
ie 1 USD = 113.865 JPY


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## mckevin (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Somehere in the neighborhood of $505. US



Trashman said:


> So, exactly how much is 57,750 yen in American dollars?



edit: Dang it, Grox beat me, and with a more accurate answer...


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## John N (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



Trashman said:


> So, exactly how much is 57,750 yen in American dollars?



Google says... 

-john


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## Grox (Oct 16, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



John N said:


> Google says...
> 
> -john



Now that's even MORE exact!


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## gregw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

57,750 yen is with tax... 55,000 yen without tax (480.43325 U.S. dollars)... 

And, if you look at the bottom of the page, you will notice that there are HID bulb options with four different colour temperatures, 3000K (Luxury Yellow), 6000K (Luxury White), 8000K (Luxury Sky Blue), and 10000K (Luxury Blue)..  

I wonder which bulb comes standard with the flashlight..


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## nc987 (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Boy, I like that design, looks well made. I just cant let myself pay 500 bucks for a light with the debut of this new costco light just around the corner.


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## DUQ (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Very nice light. I actually looking for an HID unit. Does the girl come with the light?


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## dbedit (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

For $505 I take the girl but only if there not a GB


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## XenonM3 (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I emailed the Company and they said they do ship internationally, but I haven't found out how to order yet.

They sent me these pics and a PDF of the lights specs :















This thing is probably brighter then my Costco HID but might not throw as far because of the smaller reflector, this would also be much easier to carry around because of the smaller size.

and also compare any other 50watt HID light around, this is a steal!


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## Grox (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Can you post the pdf or a link to it?


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## MaxaBaker (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Awww crap........I want it  ..........................


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## XenonM3 (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I have no links and I dont know where to host it, but I do have the PDF on my computer, if you want, I can send it to you through email, PM me with your email and I will send it to you.


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## Grox (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



MaxaBaker said:


> Awww crap........I want it  ..........................



Me too...  

My wallet's pain is my pleasure.


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## gregw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

The PDF file is actually just a single page brochure. File is available here.


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## darkzero (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

 oo: 

I like get one too! I'll pay extra for the model that comes with the girl holding the light too.


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## mckevin (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Wow, looking back I guess there *was* a girl in the photo. Guess I've spent _way_ too much time lately looking at beamshots...


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## MaxaBaker (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Ummmmmmmm...................I wonder how the RayzorBeam will compete.........


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## XenonM3 (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Is the price of the Razors around $1500 - $2000?

For a grand I would get 2 of these AZ-Project HID's, one in 4200k and one in 6000k


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## Grox (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

For the RBs the initial CPF GB deal was 850 USD I think.


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## Mr Ted Bear (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I was told the units are not yet available....

I will be with several Japanese friends tommorrow evening, so I'll have one of them call and try and get the full details.

... the Razorbeam $850, and the Razor-lite $650


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## Sway (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Thanks Jeff :thumbsup: 


Later
Kelly



Mr Ted Bear said:


> I was told the units are not yet available....
> 
> I will be with several Japanese friends tommorrow evening, so I'll have one of them call and try and get the full details.
> 
> ... the Razorbeam $850, and the Razor-lite $650


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## cue003 (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Wow, Interesting indeed. I would like to hear more and see how it compares to the Rayzor as well. Would be great if Mr. Ted Bear can add one to the stable and compare when he gets the Rayzors. 

The battery meter is a nice touch indeed.

I wonder which temp bulb that is? I like the color etc of that bulb.

Curtis


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## MaxaBaker (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Website says 4200k.................................and from the pictures it looks very nice! Look at the vibrance of the bushes lit up in the sidespill in the last picture (above).


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## XenonM3 (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



> I was told the units are not yet available....



Who told you this?


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## XenonM3 (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



> quote by Mr tedbear = the Razorbeam $850, and the Razor-lite $650





> quote by Rhino = Retail price of the lights will be:
> $1500US



The AZ-project 50W HID retails at $480US and is not a limited offer and also group buy prices aren't even factored in yet.....this is a steal....


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## Mr Ted Bear (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Xenon M3

Me... but it was a very bad cell phone connection, and I don't speak Japanese at all(I'm Chinese, but don't speak Chinese either, but hey, I do speak Spanish ????)

As noted, I will have some Japanese friends call for me tommorrow night (being girls athletic commissioner of a JAPANESE ATHLETIC ASSOC does have it's privaledges). Come to think of it, one of our members is a flight engineer who flies in/oput of Japan, just don't know what city....


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## XenonM3 (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Good news! my Japanese friend is on the phone with Ken from AZ-Project, it is around 3pm afternoon over there and he is trying to find out how to order them and found out more information.

Hope I can make an order for a few units and maybe pass the information for others to make a purchase or even start a group buy.


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## XenonM3 (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

ok now some more good news and then some bad news  

My friend said that they do not accept credit cards, only money order and certain kinds of cheques, he said this will be the first time they do any shipping outside of Japan.

It was kinda late for my friend because he has school tommorow so he couldn't get any more specs of the light but he did get a bit of information on the shipping weight and the package would weigh about 49Kg  so it would cost ALOT for shipping if this is correct. 

The good news is that next week they will have an english speaking person in their office we can speak with.

They also mentioned they have been getting tons of emails about their spotlight these couple of days........I wonder who that could be? :laughing:


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## XenonM3 (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

oh and I forgot to mention, they are ready for immediate sale.


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## mattheww50 (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



XenonM3 said:


> ok now some more good news and then some bad news
> 
> 
> It was kinda late for my friend because he has school tommorow so he couldn't get any more specs of the light but he did get a bit of information on the shipping weight and the package would weigh about 49Kg  so it would cost ALOT for shipping if this is correct.



I must be missing something here. 49Kg is 108 pounds , so unless it is made out of cast iron and has an 80 amp hour lead acid battery, I don't see how it could possibly be that heavy. 4.9Kg (about 11 pounds I might belive. X990 with both batteries has a shipping weight of about 10Kg.

The secondary issue is that if it is powered by a Li-Ion, it cannot travel by air except by Fedex. Of course at 49Kg by Fedex from Japan, you are looking at a mere $900 or so, even by ordinary air freight (if it can go that way), it proably about $200 if you can do the customs clearance yourself


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## XenonM3 (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I'm pretty sure my friend misheard, he was tired and it was late 
your right it could of been 4.9kg or something.

I am going to email them again tommorow and ask them to let me know when the english speaking person is in.


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## KevinL (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

God I hate web pages with loud, annoying music and no way to turn it off (their damn stop button doesn't work). 

For that, I'll pass.


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## Trashman (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



dbedit said:


> For $505 I take the girl but only if there not a GB




Yeah, your right, a passaround would be much cheaper.


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## LowBat (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

The website "stop" button for the music now works; maybe they've been reading our posts. If so, that girl better not be the bosses daughter or we can forget about a group buy (for the search light people!).

The website also says the units weight is 2.4Kg

Anybody else wonder why the "battery check" display is in English for a company that hasn't shipped out of Japan before?


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## Mr Ted Bear (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

A few more details from Ken:

Product package size - 430mm *235mm *310mm 
Gross weight - 7kg 
A delivery method - EMS international mail.

and yes, I am trying to secure this light, a revised Wolf Eyes Crocodile, and if luck holds, will include with the RazorBeams

Plus, I have now focused my attention to the 24 watt units. Wolf Eyes on the way, need to call Mark at AE... Any one got the Bright Star version I can borrow


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## nemul (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

mmm.. me so horn.... n/m

http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/7092/japanhid1cpf7mr.jpg
dang thats bright.... but HID's are still out of my price range...


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## frettedfive (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Hehe... I love Babelfish!!

"With nighttime patrol, round of the guard can be appealed at the intensity of the extent which is surprised. The possibility of preventing crime prevention beforehand." :thinking: 

Anyway, it looks like an impressive light.


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## NikolaTesla (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Regular D2S bulbs are 4100K. For $500 USD, I will take one ASAP.


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## Haz (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

7kg sounds more reasonable, otherwise at 49kg, sounds like the girl will come with the package!.


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## cue003 (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



Mr Ted Bear said:


> A few more details from Ken:
> 
> Product package size - 430mm *235mm *310mm
> Gross weight - 7kg
> ...




Can't wait to learn more. My next HID purchase hinges on your information/review/pictures/beamshots etc.  I hope the rayzorlite can deliver on its performance.

Curtis


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## ddaadd (Oct 18, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Was getting very close to ordering an X990, guess will have to wait a bit and see, a GB for <$500usd shipped would get me in.... ( there goes my overtime ! )


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## kukula (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Geee I was looking forward to the Rayzorlite but this seems to be a better deal. Guys if you have plans for a GB count me in :wow:


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## cmacclel (Oct 19, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

With the number they gave me it was $581 shipped with todays exchange rate.


Mac


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## XenonM3 (Oct 20, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Hey guys,

It looks like it is going to be easier to order these after all.

After talking to Ken Azuma from AZ-Project through a translater, he told me that there is a CPF member with a company and website that is now selling them, they are also able to ship by FedEX I was told, so that looks much safer for it to arrive to us.

Mr. Inukai is a member of CPF and this is the website :

http://www.pro-light.jp/ I copied and pasted the whole link and used google to translate it.

this site also sells alot of other stuff, let's hope Mr Inukai sees this thread and chimes in.


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## Wasabi (Oct 20, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Hi Guys,

Yes, I got phone calls from Mr. Azuma of AZ Project. He asked me to talk with CPF members because of language and probably they are too busy on manufacturing their lights.

First of all, I should apologize that I have quite limited time now. Because I have to ship more than 100 lights to almost 100 customers now. Almost 120 pcs of Fenix L1P were sold in one night! And I have to ship them to my customers by myself... Therefore I can hardly have time to reply on CPF in these couple of days.

I understood that some CPF members are interested in 50W HID Searchlight from AZ Project. I have some in stock and almost ready to ship them to the States or other countries via FedEx. 

I’d like to start selling this light same timing as Japanese customers. I mean, I’d like to put this light on my webshop, and start taking orders from CPF. If I take order from CPF first, it’s not fair to my webshop’s customers.

Also, I heard that AZ Project is short in stock. It may take a couple of weeks to ship. I promise to get 50W HID Searchlight in my best.

- Please allow me some hours or till Monday to check export shipping cost of FedEx. Recently, I got reduced price from FedEx, but it’s for import from China and the States. If I can ship 50W HID at reduces price, it would be better. 

- If you have FedEx account number, I can send it on your own account number.

- Regarding the price of 50W HID lights, I hate to say that, but I can not reduce the price to CPF members as well. Because already it’s very thin profit, and also I am selling all the items at same price to everyone. There are some flashaholic site in Japan, but my price is same to everyone. My policy is one price on one product. (50W HID light was approximately $800 till end of September.) Also, I must pay 5% Consumption tax due to strict japanese tax regulation....

- The price in Japanese yen is 57,750.

- I can take paypal or bank T/T. Please add 4% for CC paypal. Also, please pay in Japanese yen. Paypal will deduct 2.5% if you pay in US$....
Regarding declare price, how much do you want me to declare. Personally, I recommend to declare full value, because HID light is not as rugged as Luxeon lights.

Actually, I started small flashaholic web shop "Pro Light Japan" on July 17th.
Regarding myself and my shop, my shop’s URL is < http://www.pro-light.jp/ >. You can find my profil in the site.
===============================
You can translate my website at here :
<http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/web/>

- Copy past “http://www.pro-light.jp/” into URL square.
- Click right button below URL square.
- Click Orange wide button right side of URL square.
===============================
Probably, you feel prices are high. But I believe my shop items profita are thinner than most of other japanese shops. Transportation cost and other costs are quite high in Japan as probably you heard. I have to calculate $1.00as almost 150 yen when I import any flashlights from the States, due to high cost.

BTW, my name is "Chiharu Inukai". Chiharu is my first name.

Please feel free to contact me. I am looking forward to hearing from you.

My address is:
===========================
Pro Light Japan <http://www.pro-light.jp/>
Chiharu INUKAI
6-10-45-210, Akasaka
Minato-ku, Tokyo 107-0052
JAPAN
E-mail : < info "at" pro-light.jp >
E-mail : < inukais "at" mac.com >
Phone : +81(0)3-3585-5750
===========================

Thank you,

Chiharu


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## Grox (Oct 20, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Can you ship to Australia?


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## Wasabi (Oct 20, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Hi,

I think I can ship it to Australia. But please let me check the shipping cost.
Thanks,


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## XenonM3 (Oct 20, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

It is Great to hear from you Wasabi, I am sorry about posting your name wrong, the email I got from Mr Azuma was translated and kinda hard to understand.


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## XenonM3 (Oct 20, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



> 50W HID light was approximately $800 till end of September.



:wow: This is a $300 savings.


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## Wasabi (Oct 20, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Hi XenonM3,

No problem at all, it's hard to know about japanese name.
I am willing to support/ship 50W HID now.
But please accept some delay on my post due to time difference and also, I am extremly busy to ship Fenix..

Thanks,
Chiharu


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## Pila_Power (Oct 20, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Wow, Chiharu - you are very polite!

Good luck with your products!!

Tim.


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## senecaripple (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

$581 sounded better than $800!


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## XenonM3 (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

They WERE $800, now they are around $500US plus taxes and shipping  

I am just waiting for the FedEX quote from Wasabi so I can make the order.

Wasabi has 5 units available right now and will be getting more later.


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## Burnt_Retinas (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Now this is very tempting. At 57,750 yen quoted = $500US/$666AUD - rounded (bad omen?) as of today.

I too will be interested in shipping to Australia as per Grox comments. 

Chris


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## cue003 (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Good deal.. I am hoping one of you guys picks one up pretty quick and does a comprehensive review against other HIDs that they own. Please someone do that... I would, but then it would be my only HID with nothing to compare too. I used to have a MiniHID but that is now lost. 

So I patiently await someones writeup on this puppy. Don't forget lots and lots of beamshots 

Thanks in advance

Curtis


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## Wasabi (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Hi,

Regarding shipping cost, I got first answer from FedEx Japan.

The condition is "use my FedEx account number, and I pay the shipping first. And I'll ask you for the shipping cost". I only have contract on import base yet. 
FedEx Japan's carriage are :

My "import" discount price of US to Japan (I just got a discount contract from October 1st...)
8.0kg : 11,608 yen
7.5kg : 11,220 yen
7.0kg : 10,832 yen

But, "Export" price of Japan to US on regular tariff is! (Regular price)
8.0kg : 31,803 yen
7.5kg : 31,122 yen
7.0kg : 31,803 yen

These export price seems ridiculous! I believe exstremely expensive. So, I had talk with sales person of FedEx for discount tariff. She would answer me earliest on Monday or Tuesday. Her reaction sound quite positive for me. So, I hope to have good price from FedEx.

If I use EMS, it will be 11,800 yen @8.0kg.
http://www.post.japanpost.jp/english/fee/intel/ems.html

I'll talk with post office for possibility to ship 50W HID via EMS.
Also, one BIG advantage of EMS is "I can declare it at reasonably low price yet I can insure at full value.".

Thanks,
Chiharu


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## MrWonderful1961 (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



XenonM3 said:


> They WERE $800, now they are around $500US plus taxes and shipping
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Is there room in 'the' order for mine?





Just let me know what the final PayPal CC amount is with shipping to:

Mason, MI 48854 
USA



in advance,

Jim


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## lotsalumens (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I will be very interested in hearing how these as well as the rayzors compare to a Costco HID. I buit a 50w HID last year using an Auerswald ballast, and while it is bright, it is visibly only an incremental increase over 35w. It's not a huge jump.

cfb


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## Lando (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I am very interested in this one...would be my first HID. 
waiting for the review....
someone please think of a good excuse to tell my other half for spending $500 on a light


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## NikolaTesla (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I want one now. I like the idea of close to $500 if possible.

Also would like to be sure charger works with 120VAC not 220 volts.

I am waiting to see what bottom line is when Wasabi lets us know total with shipping hopefully in USD.


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## mattheww50 (Oct 22, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Probably a non-issue. Japan is kind of a funny place in regards to Power. about half country is ~100V/60hz , and half 220V/60Hz, and the dividing line is near Tokyo. The quartz clock was invented to solve the synchronous motor/clock problem! YOu can still see rice cookers in Akihabra with two sets of numbers on the controls, one for 50Hz, the other 60Hz.
Generally the areas where the electric infrastructure was destroyed during WWII were rebuilt as 60hz (thank you General McArthur).
Those that surived were 220V/50Hz. The Japanese drive on the Left. I'll give you three guesses who had the most influence in Japan before WWII.


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## mattheww50 (Oct 23, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



Wasabi said:


> Hi,
> 
> Regarding shipping cost, I got first answer from FedEx Japan.
> 
> ...



Several points. Japan is one of many countries with grossly asymetric import/export situations.
About the only things that arrive by Air into Japan are mail, people and fresh sea food. This a polite way of pointing out that the inbound 747, DC10 and MD11 freighters arrive nearly empty. So air freight rates into Japan are low, There is no demand, so you hope to get some business to at least cover some of your costs. 

Japan's economy is export driven, so these same freighters that arrive nearly empty, leave full day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. Demand outstrips supply, so it is a matter of what the traffic will bear, and to be honest Japan is not exactly a low cost place to do business. Cost of doing business isn't as high elswhere in Asia, but you see the same sort of huge import/export price disparities in China, Malaysia, Taiwan and Korea.

Having said that, there are several other important issues that have not appeared in this thread, so I'll bring them up.

Batteries containing more than about 1 gram of Lithium are classified under IATA regulations as Hazmat, and under IATA rules, the only place they can be legally carried on an aircraft is as carryon luggage. Even trivial amounts cannot legally travel as baggage or freight on passenger aircraft. 

I.E. it is illegal to put your laptop in checked luggage if it has an Li-Ion cell. Fedex and UPS are the only International Freight carriers that could care what IATA says. DoT makes up the rules for Fedex and UPS. UPS isn't very useful, because if you want to use them for freight shipping, you usually need to buy a full pallet position (about 3000 pounds worth, whether you need or use the 3000 pounds or not) minimum.

However in order to ship via Fedex, you need to use someone who is has the necessary permits/licenses/approval to ship Hazmat, and has both a Hazmat approval from the carrier AND a contractual relationship with the carrier.

Under current regulation just about everywhere in the world, no carrier will accept a Hazmat shipper from the public.


Even then, the shipment has to be labeled in accordance with regulation (indicating it IS Hazmat, and what the Hazmat is, in this case Li-Ion batteries), and the Hazmat needs to be declared in accordance with regulations on the documents. Failure to do so vitually guarantees a repeat performance of the Razorlite/Razorbeam fiasco of a few weeks ago, not to mention the potential civil and criminal penalites. I would add that insurance won't cover it, because the shipment itself was in violation of applicable regulations.

In short, anything with more than about 1 gram of lithium is hazmat. It cannot fly under IATA rules, and it may not be mailed by EMS, Surface, AirParcel post or any other way.

So if you want to ship these, there are a couple ways to go. Sea Freight is permissible, but I don't suggest it. It takes a while, and the port charges are often more than shipping costs at the sorts of weight we are looking at.

So my suggestion is to locate a Freight fowarder who has the necessary approvals and contract relationship, preferable one with offices as opposed to agents in the USA. There are quite a few of them. MSAS Cargo International, ABX,AEI, BAX, Schenkers, Danzas just to name a few. They are all almost certain to have the required approvals as well as contractual agreements with Fedex. Tell them what you want to ship, figure it will weight about 150kg (about 20 units), and MAKE sure you tell them there are Li-Ion batteries involved.

Fedex is best known as a courier company, and their speciality is high value, time sensitive materials, and they charge for them, in this case about $30 a pound. However what most of the public doesn't realize is it is hard to fill a DC10, MD11 or 747 Freight with overnight packages. Fedex is in fact the largest Air Freight company in the world. In my career I have probably shipped upwards of 100,000 pounds as Fedex Freight.

As a commercial Freight operator, they have to compete with Atlas/Polar, ABX, Astar, UPS, Nippon Cargo Airlines (NCA), Gemini, Korean Air, Luftansa Cargo and others, and they do on price and service. So while you can expect to pay about $30 a pound for courier freight out of Japan, as commercial air freight, it is more like $3 a pound plus about $70 in various fees for the airbill.

My suggestion would be to assume you are going to ship 20, packed up in individual boxes with individual shipping labels, put them on a pallet, wrap in plastic, and strap to the pallet. Ship the pallet to Los Angeles.

At Los Angeles it will have to clear customs. With good documentation, and good direction, a licensed broker should be able to do that in about 20 minutes, and it should cost no more than $75 or so. Fedex and UPS customs brokers have to deal with such a wide range of imports that they have very limited specific knowledge. Consequently the import almost always ends up in a relative undesireable HTS category. With a Broker, you can brief them, and suggest a more attractive HTS numbers. Many Goods can be classified into more than one HTS number. The idea is to pick the one with the lowest duty rate that is reasonable. Do you call these Flashlights, or portable HID lighting? It makes a big difference in the duty rate. Is it a lie to call them Portable HID lighting? Because the customs broker is licensed and bonded, it is their A** on the line, so they are not likely to push the envelope very far. The customs inspector is free to disagree, but unless you really try to push the envelope, it is rare day that the customs inspector will argue with the broker on the classification. 

There will be about $100 in break bulk fees, handling, and local delivery charges in Los Angeles.

Someone will have to accept the pallet and break it down. Then it is a matter of finding a shipper with the required approvals. I think I know someone who would do it for a fee. She'd send the shipping labels for DHL Hazmat Ground, along with the ORM-D stickers (Identifying the Hazmat at consumer goods, the assumption is consumers aren't buying Potassium Cyanide, or 98% Sulfuric Acid etc.).. You are buying these things for personal user aren't you? ORM-D is then appropriate. Just slap the labels on, and drop off at any DHL authorized shipping location.

here is my estimate of what it will cost to ship 20.

$1000 Air freight charges and air bill charges
$100 Break Bulk/warehousing/handling fees
$75 Customs Broker fees
$300 (about $15 per package) for DHL hazmat
ORM-D to any point in the lower 48.

Figure all up about $1600 or so after 'paying off' the lady with the DHL approval/contract. That's $80 per light, but beats $300 alight by a country mile, and is all legal an in accordance with various regulations. (The failure to be 'legal', is what got the Razorbeam/Razorlite shipment destroyed).

BTW, NiCD, NiMh, and SLA's are much less trouble. Lead acid other than SLA is as much trouble if they have electrolyte in them. If they don't (shipped dry) they aren't a problem.

Within the USA there is a specific exemption for Lithium Primary and secondary cells that are classed as 'life saving equipment' (in fact you declare them as 'Life Saving Equipment'. That allows AED's, PLB and EPIRB's to be shipped domestically by air.


----------



## XenonM3 (Oct 23, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



> Probably a non-issue. Japan is kind of a funny place in regards to Power. about half country is ~100V/60hz , and half 220V/60Hz, and the dividing line is near Tokyo. The quartz clock was invented to solve the synchronous motor/clock problem! YOu can still see rice cookers in Akihabra with two sets of numbers on the controls, one for 50Hz, the other 60Hz.
> Generally the areas where the electric infrastructure was destroyed during WWII were rebuilt as 60hz (thank you General McArthur).
> Those that surived were 220V/50Hz. The Japanese drive on the Left. I'll give you three guesses who had the most influence in Japan before WWII.



Are you Japanese Mathew? or maybe lived there? just asking cause I was wondering how you know so much about Japan.


----------



## RalphRussell (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

This is probably the wrong place to post this but isn't there anyone in the USA that sells the kind of nasty HAZMAT Lithium batteries needed for Rayzorbeams and the like. Then we could just have USPS priority mail send us the batteries avoiding customs and international shipping altogether.

1) Buy the foreign flashlight WITHOUT batteries.
2) Buy the batteries here in the USA.

What kinds of domestic (USA) batteries can one get that could replace the batteries needed for the foreign made flashlights? Don't RC (Radio Control) hobbyists use these types of batteries?


----------



## Haesslich (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



RalphRussell said:


> This is probably the wrong place to post this but isn't there anyone in the USA that sells the kind of nasty HAZMAT Lithium batteries needed for Rayzorbeams and the like. Then we could just have USPS priority mail send us the batteries avoiding customs and international shipping altogether.
> 
> 1) Buy the foreign flashlight WITHOUT batteries.
> 2) Buy the batteries here in the USA.
> ...



The problem is, especially with high-performance lights, is that the Li-ion batteries are probably custom-made for the lights, or else the lights are custom-made for them... especially if they need ballasts like HIDs do. Most Li-ion and Li-poly batteries available to hobbyists probably wouldn't fit these lights, even if you did manage to make one that connected properly and supplied sufficient voltage and capacity to make the thing run at spec.. and whatever charger ships with these lights wouldn't work with the other battery pack. 

I'd probably suggest that the shipper follow Matthew's suggestion above - $80 for shipping's not cheap, but it'll get the lights over intact... which is the key to this transaciton, as otherwise you're spending more money shipping back broken parts which have to be replaced, if they don't get turned back at the border... or seized.


----------



## mattheww50 (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



RalphRussell said:


> This is probably the wrong place to post this but isn't there anyone in the USA that sells the kind of nasty HAZMAT Lithium batteries needed for Rayzorbeams and the like. Then we could just have USPS priority mail send us the batteries avoiding customs and international shipping altogether.
> 
> 1) Buy the foreign flashlight WITHOUT batteries.
> 2) Buy the batteries here in the USA.
> ...


Illegal to ship anything with more than about 1 gram or so of Lithium by USPS. That probably doesn't stop many people, but it is the law...

UPS/DHL/Fedex can carry batteries up to the size of the Li-Ion used in the AE PowerLight and Brightstar light domestically under a DoT exemption (and those batteries really are right at the limit,and I suspect that was by design), but once you get past that size, you are truly in the Hazmat/NoFly Zone.

1500Mah 11.1V battery for an R/C airplane is about the upper limit on what can be mailed legally. 15 Watt hours is far short of what a 35 or 50 watt HID needs to run for 2 hours...

However there are companies in the USA that will build packs using commercially available Li-Ions to order. Almost all packs consists of some assortment of standard cellsm assembled into a particular geometry. Most of these companies have Hazmat licenses/permists and can ship via UPS Ground, Fedex ground or DHL ground as Hazmat.

And no, I haven't lived in Japan, but I have spent a fair amount of time in Japan over the years. I admit I wasn't aware they drove on the left until the first time I was there (1985). You rarely see pictures of traffic in Japan. so few people who haven't been there are aware of it. But you'd be suprised at the number of LEFT HAND drive vehicles on the road in Japan (which are 'street legal'. It is a status symbol in part. Jaguars and Audi's at least used to Left Hand drive in Japan. Both certainly made right hand drive vehicles, but the US versions meet Japanese emissions requirements, so guess which version was exported to Japan....

Equally strange is that most Japanes vehicles (even those only made and sold in Japan) have Romanized names adorning them (meaning spelled out in Western Character set, not Japanese). For example a Honda really will say HONDA. I remember a friend's Honda that actually had emblazoned on the dash board 'HONDA NAVIGATION SYSTEM'.. Makes no sense, but...


----------



## Haesslich (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



mattheww50 said:


> Equally strange is that most Japanes vehicles (even those only made and sold in Japan) have Romanized names adorning them (meaning spelled out in Western Character set, not Japanese). For example a Honda really will say HONDA. I remember a friend's Honda that actually had emblazoned on the dash board 'HONDA NAVIGATION SYSTEM'.. Makes no sense, but...



That's easy to explain - it's the same reason people over here in North America often get tattoos or decorations of simple Chinese or Japanese calligraphy (kanji) - it's in a different language, which makes it 'cool', even if you don't understand what the word means.


----------



## XenonM3 (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



> Illegal to ship anything with more than about 1 gram or so of Lithium by USPS. That probably doesn't stop many people, but it is the law...
> 
> UPS/DHL/Fedex can carry batteries up to the size of the Li-Ion used in the AE PowerLight and Brightstar light domestically under a DoT exemption (and those batteries really are right at the limit,and I suspect that was by design), but once you get past that size, you are truly in the Hazmat/NoFly Zone.
> 
> ...



Hmmm so does this all mean I cannot order from them 1 single light and have it shipped by FedEX? :thinking:


----------



## Wasabi (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Hi,

I haven't heard anything from FedEx yet. I think it might take one or two days to get discount shipping tarif.

I am confusing how to ship AZ Project's 50W HID to CPF members...

To ship 20 pcs to LA sound VERY difficult for me. Also, I have to think about other CPF members in different location.
1. AZ Projects can hardly supply 20 pcs at once. 
2. It's quite hard for me to pack/handle 20 pcs in my small office. That will effect to my other business. (Please see my location at google earth.) Real center of Tokyo. I can pack 20 pcs HDS EDC, but 50W HID....
3. Domestic transportation cost might be quite excessive.
4. Also, I got phone call from Canada, and I got an e-mail from CPF member in Hong Kong. Shipping all the available 50W HID to LA will be unhappy way for them. 

I telephoned JAFA that relate to IATA and controling Hazmat shipping. I heard that I must not send bare battery via FedEx, DHL, or Nippon Express, if the battery include certian amount of Lithium. (1 gram?) But I can send packaged product (Computer, Flashlight, etc) via FedEx, DHL or Nippon Express even if it contains large Lithium Ion battery. If the product with large Lithiun Ion battery was made by manufacturer, they see this product as "Safe". 

Also, I saw restriction page of EMS on Japan Postal Service website. But there weren't any restriction about batteries. It seems they do not care about batteries. So, I called Tokyo International Postal office to check about regulation for battery. But no one could answer me.

I am sure that I must NOT ship bare Lithium Ion battery without aproval. But can't I ship packaged product that include Lithiun Ion battery via EMS or FedEx?

Post office told me "Yes, you can ship flashlight include battery.".
And no reply from FedEx Japan yet.

I wish if I could ship 50W HID via EMS to each individual CPF members.
It would be much easy to ship the light. Also, realistic solution on this limited supply from AZ Project.

Is it really ilegal to ship 50W HID via EMS?

One manager of shipping company told me that there are tons of Lithiun Ion battery in shipped items. They only check if I write "Battery inside". And they do care if batteries have uncovered polar which may cause fire. But they do not care if battery is inside the packaged product and safe enought to protect from short circuit.

How shall I handle 50W HID???

Please let me know your ideas.
I hope we can find easy and inexpensive shipping method.

Thanks,


----------



## Grox (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Why don't you investigate
a) getting AZ project to ship directly to somebody in the US (drop ship)
b) shipping lights to those who live outside the US directly (yourself or the company)?


----------



## Graham (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



mattheww50 said:


> Probably a non-issue. Japan is kind of a funny place in regards to Power. about half country is ~100V/60hz , and half 220V/60Hz, and the dividing line is near Tokyo. The quartz clock was invented to solve the synchronous motor/clock problem! YOu can still see rice cookers in Akihabra with two sets of numbers on the controls, one for 50Hz, the other 60Hz.
> Generally the areas where the electric infrastructure was destroyed during WWII were rebuilt as 60hz (thank you General McArthur).
> Those that surived were 220V/50Hz. The Japanese drive on the Left. I'll give you three guesses who had the most influence in Japan before WWII.



Uh, the 50/60hz thing is correct, but all of Japan is 100V - it is the standard here. 220V isn't used at all in Japan.


----------



## type_moon (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

http://www.az-project.jp/image/50whidkaichudento.pdf


----------



## christrose (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



mattheww50 said:


> Probably a non-issue. Japan is kind of a funny place in regards to Power. about half country is ~100V/60hz , and half 220V/60Hz, and the dividing line is near Tokyo. The quartz clock was invented to solve the synchronous motor/clock problem! YOu can still see rice cookers in Akihabra with two sets of numbers on the controls, one for 50Hz, the other 60Hz.
> Generally the areas where the electric infrastructure was destroyed during WWII were rebuilt as 60hz (thank you General McArthur).
> Those that surived were 220V/50Hz. The Japanese drive on the Left. I'll give you three guesses who had the most influence in Japan before WWII.


The historical fact is more simpler.
Un-unifying frequency of Japan goes back to the beginning of construction of the electric infrastructure.
At the end of the 19th century the east area imported 50Hz dynamos from Germany. On the other hand, west area imported 60Hz dynamos from U.S.


----------



## XenonM3 (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



> I telephoned JAFA that relate to IATA and controling Hazmat shipping. I heard that I must not send bare battery via FedEx, DHL, or Nippon Express, if the battery include certian amount of Lithium. (1 gram?) But I can send packaged product (Computer, Flashlight, etc) via FedEx, DHL or Nippon Express even if it contains large Lithium Ion battery. If the product with large Lithiun Ion battery was made by manufacturer, they see this product as "Safe".



This sounds like good news to me, when you get the quote from FedEX Japan let me know Wasabi, I will order and have it shipped to me and will gladly take my chances and find out for us if any problems occur.


----------



## MrWonderful1961 (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



Haesslich said:


> That's easy to explain - it's the same reason people over here in North America often get tattoos or decorations of simple Chinese or Japanese calligraphy (kanji) - it's in a different language, which makes it 'cool', even if you don't understand what the word means.


For those interested, there's more background (& several examples) of this phenomenon available at engrish.com

Jim


----------



## Wasabi (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I could ship Crocodile-I via a kind of domestic FedEx like air service to Okinawa(Southern Island.), but I couldn't ship the battery of Crocodile-I to Okinawa. So, I think I can send 50W HID via FedEx or EMS. Are there any problem to receive it? I think there wouldn't be a problem if the item is safe enough. 

Also, there is no restriction about battery in EMS regulation.
I think EMS cost approximately $100 -$105. And I can cover full value on insurance but I can declare lower value, if I use EMS.

Therefore I think EMS will be cheaper in total. I'll double check the restriction of EMS tomorrow.


----------



## mattheww50 (Oct 24, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

There are two limits on Lithium transport. Stay under about 1 gram, and nobody cares. Between 1 and 5 grams it can be carried, but must be properly declared, and labeled, and must travel with a Hazmat certified carrier and staff. Past 5 grams, it is surface or sea ONLY. 5 grams in a multicell pack corresponds to about 55 watt hours, and you will discover that all Laptops stay under that


I cannot vouch for Japanese authorities, except I doubt that they are materially different than the US Mail. What can come and go Internationally is governed by treaty. I refer readers to what the US Post office says

a. Hazardous material is any article or substance designated by the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) as being capable of posing an unreasonable risk to health, safety, and property during transportation. In international commerce, hazardous materials are known as “dangerous goods.”

Li-Ion cells are class 9 Hazmat according to DoT, and this is what the USPS says about International transportation of class 9: "Prohibited, except magnetized materials per IMM 136 "
In other words they may not travel Internationally by Air Parcel Post, Air Letter Post, Surface Letter Post, Economy parcel post, or EMS unless there is a specific exemption given by DoT.
Many of the 'coin' cells do in fact have such an exemption.

If you attempt to ship, the odds are very high that the goods will end up like the Razorbeam/Razorlite shipment. If you are lucky, you won't be prosecuted.


----------



## Wasabi (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Hi mattheww50,

Thanks for detailed information. 

To make things clear, I will/have never do ilegal shipping. I believe there are some confusions regarding Lithiun Ion battery's shipping regulation.

Yes, I understood your post. May be I misunderstood some points, but English is NOT my mother tongue. I may misunderstand some points in such a long post. I would appreciate if you could post your requirement in short note. 

I do not need detailed reasons. I simply wants to know "How can I ship 1 pcs 50W HID to each CPF members at lowest cost.".

Anyway, I checked your points in Japan.Then, I got answers that I can ship 50W HID light via EMS. (I got this answer from head post office just a hour ago.)

The reason of my previous post is It seems that I could ship 50W HID via EMS in Japanese law. Therefore, I won't be prosecuted, because I downloaded the EMS regulation. But I never want any troubles to CPF members or on 50W HID light.

But, recently, I found out the notice from government office that there are confusion regarding handling of Lithium Ion battery. It seems there are different "understanding" of regulation on Lithium Ion battery. Probably USA take this regulation more strict than some countries including Japan. (As it's tolerate to take gas lighter into air craft in japan, but never tolerate in the States.) In that case I believe I'd better choose strict regulation.

I'll talk with Mr. Azuma of AZ Projext whether AZ Project could ship 20 pcs 50W HID to LA or other location. Who will manege the GB, if AZ Project can ship 20 pcs 50W HID to LA.

Therefore, I would like to ask one question to all the CPF members who wants take 50W HID light of AZ Project. 

==>Please post your country and legal shipping methods to ship 50W HID from Japan. 

==>Then, I will research shipping costs to your country upon your requests.

As I am not export shop, please understand I am not experienced about export lights.

Thanks,


----------



## Wasabi (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Hi 
I found out slightly better news.
"anything with more than about 1 gram of lithium is hazmat." is for Lithium battery that use metal Lithiun. IATA has different regulation for Lithium Ion battery since July 1st 2001 at "A8" and "A45".

And said "Equivalent volume of Lithium in "-" polars of class Lithium Ion battery should be below 25gr." etc. But, package should fit to UN class II regulation, etc.

I'll check the size and detail of the Li-Ion battery of 50W HID whether it fits to IATA regulation.

Anyway, I am not interested in export 50W HID, IF I can not use FedEx, EMS or Surface mail(Sea mail). I am already over work for domestic demands.


----------



## Lando (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

might be a good idea if the forum admin would make Mathew50 's post about transport savety a sticky for this section of the forum so we don't have to go through this again with every HID light containing lit ion bateries shipped from abroad.


----------



## senecaripple (Oct 26, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

if this whole deal is about $600 usd including shipping/handling and insurance, please include me! with taxes


----------



## suvlights.com (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

The light was most likely made in Taiwan or China probably using a 50W ballast driving a 35W HID bulb.

I've seen several similar lights claiming increased brightness using the 50W ballast driving a 35W bulb concept but light output, lumen maintence, color shift, and life span can suffer considerably as a result.


----------



## Lando (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

>>made in Taiwan or China probably using a 50W ballast driving a 35W HID bulb.

I've seen several similar lights claiming increased brightness using the 50W ballast driving a 35W bulb concept but light output, lumen maintence, color shift, and life span can suffer considerably as a result.<<

is this true, anyone want to comment on this?


----------



## cmacclel (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Of course life will suffer driving a higher wattage through the lamp but to me it's no big deal....So I get 1500 hours out of a 3000 hour lamp. Not a big deal to me. I thought the D2S lamps where rated up to 75 watts?


Mac


----------



## NikolaTesla (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

As if no one on CPF ever would think of overdriving a light bulb:huh2:


----------



## gregw (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Pushing a 35W bulb at 50W is one thing, but how about the lumens output? Will a pushed 35W HID bulb be as bright as a 50W HID bulb running at spec? Anyone know what is the difference between an HID bulb rated at 35W versus an HID bulb rated at 50W?

Wasabi, can you confirm which country actually manufactures this light? Is this "Made in Japan" or is it "Made in Taiwan/Made in China" as suvlights.com claims?


----------



## Wasabi (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Sorry for late response. My family was hospitalized last week, and I have been very busy to take care of her for a while. Now, she is OK.

As far as I understood, it is made in Taiwan, but joint product of Taiwan and AZ Project. I'll check the detail to Mr. Azuma of AZ Project.

The bulb is surely 50W HID. AZ Project is young manufacturer of automotive HID head lamp. AZ Project has expanded market share based on thier 50W technology. Also, they tested higher wattage bulb in the past, but it was too bright and cause trouble to other cars.

BTW, I haven't think about which country's product become such a important issue. Because many models of Streamlight are manufactured by Nuwai, Luxeons are made in Malaysia, and many Panasonics are made in ASIA... Also, many products assembled in Japan are made from various parts from USA, China, Taiwan, Vietnum, Korea and etc. 

Anyway I will post regarding "Made in XXX" when I could talk with AZ Project.


----------



## Wasabi (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Hi,

- AZ Project's 50W HID Light is designed by AZ Project(Japanese) and Taiwanese engineer who studied in Japan.

- All the parts and manufacturering detailed were discussed between engineers of AZ Project and Taiwanese engineer.

- AZ Project's 50W HID Light is manufacturered in Taiwan.

- The 50W HID bulb is true 50W HID bulb. NOT over driven 35W HID bulb.

- The hot spot is relatively wide even at most narrow setting, but Lux reading was 180,000+Lux at 1m as peak, most part of hot spot got 160,000-170,000 [email protected] Much brighter than Crocodile-I 40W HID.

- I must say the reflector's design is NOT perfect yet. It can be slightly better throw if they re-design reflector. Yet, performance of AZ project's 50W HID is impressive enough. Please consider about the price.

BTW, sorry for no reply for more than a week. My wife was in the hospital. If anyone interested in to purchase this 50W HID, please PM me. (PM me again please.)

Thanks,


----------



## LEDagent (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Hey guys (and girls)

If you guys dig through LightMania's review sit (AWSOME SHI# HERE), you'll find distance and color comparisons of the 50W HID and other 35W HIDs including another version of the X990.

Anyway, under the 340 meter light comparison i found out two things:

1) Between the 4200, 6000, 8000, and 10,000 Kelvin bulbs - The 6000K is BRIUGHTER at the furthest distance. I always thought you lose lumens the higher in kelvin you go. Although, I should consider other things like camera sensetivity to color, maybe a variation in bulb quality....but the pictures show a noticable increase in brightness at 6000K. I would go with this bulb anyway, if and when i buy one.

2) Even though the reflector is smaller and the hotspot is larger than the X990, the 50W kicks it's butt at this range! The 60 meter comparison show very little, if any, difference between the 50W and 35W models, but the 340m tells a lot! You should check out the Maxabeam shots! It's like the Maxabeam is barely 60m away compared to everyone else....but look at the sidespill...there isn't any!

Man this is one outstanding light. How much was the final price after shipment and tax to the U.S.? When i get the money, this is the next flashlight i'm gonna buy!


----------



## freedom (Nov 3, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I have been trying to follow the posts in this thread. However, I'd still like to ask:

made in Taiwan or China probably using a 50W ballast driving a 35W HID bulb<-- how this is going to affect the lifespan of the bulb?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered somewhere.


----------



## Haesslich (Nov 3, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



freedom said:


> I have been trying to follow the posts in this thread. However, I'd still like to ask:
> 
> made in Taiwan or China probably using a 50W ballast driving a 35W HID bulb<-- how this is going to affect the lifespan of the bulb?
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked and answered somewhere.



If you'd actually read the posts before yours, you'd see the answer. 

To quote Post #96:

"- The 50W HID bulb is true 50W HID bulb. NOT over driven 35W HID bulb."


----------



## ChrisDallas (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



LEDagent said:


> Hey guys (and girls)
> 
> If you guys dig through LightMania's review sit (AWSOME SHI# HERE), you'll find distance and color comparisons of the 50W HID and other 35W HIDs including another version of the X990.




Can you post a link? I've searched & there's nobody by that name.

Thanks


----------



## Haesslich (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Try searching by the name LITEMania instead of 'lightmania'.


----------



## gregw (Nov 7, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Actually, it IS lightmania... The site is here.


----------



## Haesslich (Nov 7, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



gregw said:


> Actually, it IS lightmania... The site is here.



The Japanese site and not the dealer on CPF.  Me bad.


----------



## Lando (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

It his been a while now since this light first appeared on CPF, has anyone received one of these beauties yet? Are you happy with it? I am still on the fence on what to get , Rayzorbeam or AZ Project 50 watt HID. I wish I could afford to buy them both


----------



## gregw (Nov 23, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

As far as I know, no one's bought one yet... The price is good for a 50W, but based on the beamshots over at lightmania, it doesn't seem to be very much brighter than the X990, which is still significantly cheaper.. 

I'm also waiting for the shootout that Mr.Ted Bear will be doing with the RazorBeam/RazorLite to see if the additional $$ is worth spending, considering that the Razors are supposedly waterproof and drop tested..


----------



## Lando (Nov 23, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

looks like the AZ project has better throw then the X990

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2ffuja.s22.xrea.com%2fhikaku%2fsuper%2f340%2findex.html

hope they fix the donut when they redesign the refector and tighter spot would also be nice


----------



## InfidelCastro (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I'm drooling over this light. It's almost perfect. 

I think I would want the 4200K bulb.

I wonder where you're supposed to get replacement bulbs and battery packs? Spare parts?


----------



## XeVision (Dec 1, 2005)

*Re: New 50W HID*



InfidelCastro said:


> I'm drooling over this light. It's almost perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
My company is finalizing the exclusive agency for this product in North America. www.XeVision.com The product is NOT made in Japan, the Japanese company AZ-Project is just a reseller. We will fully support this product with spare parts etc. A close friend of mine designed the HID electronics package for this unit. We are still working out the list pricing on this product. It will fall in the $700 to $800 range. We can do a group buy for you guys in the price range you were discussing. You won't need to deal with customs etc. The product will ship from my warehouse in Utah, USA. It will be 4-8 weeks before my 1st large shipment will be arriving.


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## gregw (Dec 1, 2005)

*Re: New 50W HID*



XeVision said:


> My company is finalizing the exclusive agency for this product in North America. www.XeVision.com The product is NOT made in Japan, the Japanese company AZ-Project is just a reseller. We will fully support this product with spare parts etc. A close friend of mine designed the HID electronics package for this unit. We are still working out the list pricing on this product. It will fall in the $700 to $800 range. We can do a group buy for you guys in the price range you were discussing. You won't need to deal with customs etc. The product will ship from my warehouse in Utah, USA. It will be 4-8 weeks before my 1st large shipment will be arriving.



Hmmm... That IS interesting... We know that the light is manufactured in Taiwan from the following post from Wasabi earlier on in this thread:



Wasabi said:


> Hi,
> 
> - AZ Project's 50W HID Light is designed by AZ Project(Japanese) and Taiwanese engineer who studied in Japan.
> 
> ...



Now you're saying AZ Project is actually just a reseller and not the designer of this light? :thinking:


----------



## XeVision (Dec 1, 2005)

*Re: New 50W HID*



gregw said:


> Hmmm... That IS interesting... We know that the light is manufactured in Taiwan from the following is a post from Wasabi earlier on in this thread:
> 
> AZ Project's 50W HID Light is designed by AZ Project(Japanese) and Taiwanese engineer who studied in Japan.
> 
> ...


Yes, that is correct. 
The unit IS Made in Taiwan The Mechanical Engineering etc was done by a Taiwanese who studied in Japan, this is true. The HID electronics were not done by this same person but by my friend. AZ Project *possibly* had some input in non HID related prototyping changes.


----------



## gregw (Dec 1, 2005)

*Re: New 50W HID*



XeVision said:


> Yes, that is correct.
> The unit IS Made in Taiwan The Mechanical Engineering etc was done by a Taiwanese who studied in Japan, this is true. The HID electronics were not done by this same person but by my friend. AZ Project *possibly* had some input in non HID related prototyping changes.



So, what you're basically saying is that this is just like the X990 where it's a Taiwan manufactured OEM and "rebranded" by AZ Project.. :huh: 

Anyway, I think it's got a pretty good price/performance ratio, but would actually like to see a more detailed review by someone we all trust, as well as how it compares with other known lights before putting my money down. If you have one of these now, you might want to loan it to Mr Ted Bear, who will be doing a SuperLights shootout in the next few weeks once he receives the Razorbeam/Razorlite from Australia..  Like almost everyone, I can only justify putting down my money for one of these. :laughing:


----------



## XeVision (Dec 1, 2005)

*Re: New 50W HID*



gregw said:


> So, what you're basically saying is that this is just like the X990 where it's a Taiwan manufactured OEM and "rebranded" by AZ Project.. :huh:
> 
> Anyway, I think it's got a pretty good price/performance ratio, but would actually like to see a more detailed review by someone we all trust, as well as how it compares with other known lights before putting my money down. If you have one of these now, you might want to loan it to Mr Ted Bear, who will be doing a SuperLights shootout in the next few weeks once he receives the Razorbeam/Razorlite from Australia..  Like almost everyone, I can only justify putting down my money for one of these. :laughing:


 
Yes, that first statement is correct. It will be 2-3 weeks before I have a latest production model to loan. I will make one available for testing at that time. The output is actually 5300 lumens using 4200K bulb. If using a Higher K bulb, lower lumens output will result.


----------



## gregw (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: New 50W HID*



XeVision said:


> I will make one available for testing at that time. The output is actually 5300 lumens using 4200K bulb. If using a Higher K bulb, lower lumens output will result.



That's great! I suggest you contact Mr Ted Bear now to make the necessary arrangements to get this to him for the shootout.  As you can see from all the posts on this thread, there has been many expressions of interests but no one has put their money down yet, so you will have many potential customers if you can meet the groupbuy price and once this 50W HID has proven itself against the competition.


----------



## HighLight (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

These lights were listing for 57750 jap yen on the japanese website. That converted to $480.00US, not including shipping etc. Now these may be available for $700.00-$800.00US plus tax and shipping ? The luxury of ordering these from conus and having U.S. support available sure seems mighty expensive! or am I missing something here?


----------



## XeVision (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: New 50W HID*



gregw said:


> That's great! I suggest you contact Mr Ted Bear now to make the necessary arrangements to get this to him for the shootout.  As you can see from all the posts on this thread, there has been many expressions of interests but no one has put their money down yet, so you will have many potential customers if you can meet the groupbuy price and once this 50W HID has proven itself against the competition.


 
Mr. Ted Bear,

I tried to e-mail you but the CPF system would not allow it. I am interested to provide a loaner sample in about 3 weeks for performance testing. Please contact me regarding this. Our website is www.XeVision.com We have been in the HID business since 2001 and in business since 1987. We have sold our HID products to companies such as Boeing, Goodyear (Blimp), and many aviation / aerospace and Industrial applications. We have also sold to the US AirForce and Navy. We are currently working on a project for a high speed train. Our contract EE who designed our proprietary ballast system also did the HID design work for this Search Light mfg'd in Taiwan, he is also a close friend. We just recently decided to add this product to our offerings. The output (lumens) performance is identical to our OTHER 50 watt systems, only the optics would be different. 

Dan


----------



## XeVision (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



HighLight said:


> These lights were listing for 57750 jap yen on the japanese website. That converted to $480.00US, not including shipping etc. Now these may be available for $700.00-$800.00US plus tax and shipping ? The luxury of ordering these from conus and having U.S. support available sure seems mighty expensive! or am I missing something here?


 
As I said in an earlier post, we can do a group buy for you guys in the price range you were discussing. You won't need to deal with customs etc. The product will ship from my warehouse in Utah, USA. It will be 4-8 weeks before my 1st large shipment will be arriving.
The price for this group buy would be about $550.00. List Pricing will fall in the $700-$800 range, actual TBD.


----------



## HighLight (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



XeVision said:


> As I said in an earlier post, we can do a group buy for you guys in the price range you were discussing. You won't need to deal with customs etc. The product will ship from my warehouse in Utah, USA. It will be 4-8 weeks before my 1st large shipment will be arriving.
> The price for this group buy would be about $550.00. List Pricing will fall in the $700-$800 range, actual TBD.


 

Thanks XeVision! A $550.00 group buy seems very reasonable for the convenience of having this shipped from CONUS. and a bargain too considering the performance of this 50 watt HID light! The beamshots of this light shown in one of the links above are just awesome.


----------



## Lando (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



Wasabi said:


> - I must say the reflector's design is NOT perfect yet. It can be slightly better throw if they re-design reflector. Yet, performance of AZ project's 50W HID is impressive enough.


 
Hi and welcome to CPF XeVision :wave: 
is it likely that there will be a new reflector design and if so when?


----------



## XeVision (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



Lando said:


> Hi and welcome to CPF XeVision :wave:
> is it likely that there will be a new reflector design and if so when?


I will need to research that question.


----------



## RalphRussell (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

This is a very interesting development from my perspective. Dan from XeVision and I did some business earlier this year. This is an interesting story.

I only recently became a flashlight enthusiast. Earlier this year, I discovered "The Beast" and bought one from SureFire. I really didn't really have a need for it but I bought it as an investment and just because it was awesome technology. I eventually sold it.

I immediately became very interested in HID technology. But as we all know, when you search for it on the web, you find thousands of sellers that want to sell you 35w HID headlights for your car! I wanted more!

I entered "experimental HID" in the Yahoo search. Amazingly enough, it brought me right to XeVision. Near the top of their home page, it says.

™XeVision HID Xenon aircraft landing and taxi lights For experimental aircraft only at this time, not approved for certified aircraft". It has the words "experimental" and "HID"

After reading a bit, I thought, this is what I've been looking for! 50 Watt HID, 4200K color temp and NOT regulated by the DOT for automotive use! What a light this would make.

About the same time I discovered XeVision, I also picked up a Costco 35w HID lantern on eBay. I then did something crazy and bold. I bought one of Xevisions 50w HID landing lights and upgraded my Costco. Then I tried to sell it on eBay. It did not sell. About that time is when I joined CPF. There was a thread where the light was discussed. I posted beamshots. It was all great fun and I eventually sold the light. Here is what I got for feedback on eBay:

"An amazing spotlight. Beyond words. Great seller. a huge asset to ebay."

I think he liked it. He has the world's only Costco HID light upgraded to 50w HID thanks to XeVision. I did not make any money because the XeVision landing lights are quite high priced. Now the new AZ Project lights from XeVision are rated the same as their 50w landing lights and will be a much better bargain than my modded light. This is an excellent deal especially the price quoted for the group buy!

Dan and XeVision, Welcome to CPF!

My experience with XeVision has been a good one!


----------



## XeVision (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



RalphRussell said:


> This is a very interesting development from my perspective. Dan from XeVision and I did some business earlier this year. This is an interesting story.
> 
> I only recently became a flashlight enthusiast. Earlier this year, I discovered "The Beast" and bought one from SureFire. I really didn't really have a need for it but I bought it as an investment and just because it was awesome technology. I eventually sold it.
> 
> ...


 
Ralph, Thanks for the kind intro. It was only a couple of weeks after the last time you and I communicated that we were offered this great opportunity. I was wondering how you would respond. You have been most gracious. Please give me a call next week at your convenience.

To clarify a comment above, about 60% of our total aircraft HID light sales are on Certified aircraft. This is done using an FAA form 337 "field approval." Our lights are also standard equipment on a number of factory aircraft, "type certificate."

A few weeks ago our contract Electrical Engineer and my friend, presented us with an opportunity to market this product. Our contract engineer helped us design our proprietary ballast and other electronics systems. He has also done the design work on the HID ballasts system on this searchlight for another of his customers. This customer was in Taiwan, they had engineered and were now manufacturing the product. It seemed like a good fit with the rest of our product offerings. After the initial assesment we were excited. They accepted our proposal to be the exclusive agent for North America with the ability to sell worldwide with minimal restrictions. AZ Project is another agent for the same manufacturer. This Searchlight uses a D2 based HID bulb (P32d base) and is offered in both 35 and 50 watt models. The 35 watt offers 3200 lumens at the bulb while the 50 offers 5300 lumens. The efficacy is 91 lumens per watt with the 35 watt model and 106 lumens per watt with the 50 watt model. 

Mr. Ted Bear, just called me late Friday afternoon to discuss my willingness to provide a demo sample for the upcoming shootout. It will be great to see our product compared to all the rest. I am quite confident we will do very well. We are glad to support this worthy endeavor and an opportunity for some great exposure.

Dan


----------



## XeVision (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: New Taiwanese 50W HID*

Ralph Russel's beam shot of 4 lights shining on his lilac bushes from 40 feet. From left to right the beams are from: (scroll screen to the right to see the 4th beam)

. SureFire "The Beast"
. Thor-x (100w non-hid that says 10,000,000 cp)
. Costco HID standard 35 w
. Costco HID modified 50w XeVision aircraft landing light kit

Link http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/351/pict001027iz.jpg


----------



## InfidelCastro (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

That is great!!!


----------



## underdog (Dec 6, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Beam comparison - SuperNova and Powerview (AZ Project) Searchlight 
Both lights at tightest focus into a foggy sky to accentuate beam characteristics. Powerview beam on the right.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1131/godzilla3hm.jpg


----------



## Sway (Dec 6, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Thanks for the beam shot underdog :thumbsup:

Can you tell us a little about the AZ Project light.......is it as nice as the pic's we have seen?

Later
Kelly


----------



## underdog (Dec 6, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Sure. 

AZ Project Light
PROS: 

Nice form factor - Clean external design. Li-ion battery pack. Easy to pick up and go. Unobtrusive black matte finish.

Huge amount of light. Ok, the amount of light is hard to quantify but the beam in spot mode is broad and intense. 

There is a threaded hole in the bottom of the light for use with a standard camera tripod. 

Clear dust/water cover over red on/off switch. Round threaded metal dust cover for recharging port.

The battery level checking feature is convenient.

CONS:

The method of beam adjustment is kludgy. Because of the amount of force required to move the bezel, large beam adjustments (e.g. spot to full wide) are made by placing your hand over the lens, grasping the bezel and rotating. The possible range of bezel rotation is 90 degrees. The bezel can be rotated without the hand blocking the beam but this method is practical only for finer beam adjustments. This is a minor point for me since I’d probably set it to the narrowest focus and leave it.

The light seems a bit heavy to use for extended use so I would probably attach the shoulder strap. I believe the specs say the light is a bit over 5 lbs? I guess that the large battery payload is needed to run a 50 watt bulb.

The reflector surface doesn't appear to be perfectly smooth and there are a couple of cosmetic imperfections in the reflector coating. I doubt that there is a perceivable effect on the beam.

The color temperature of the light is fine (4200K) although I would probably prefer something around 6,000K.

The battery pack isn’t modular so I cannot switch to a freshly charged pack. I am wondering what options would be available when the original batteries reach end of life too.

Cigarette lighter power adapter and AC power adapter for battery charging both have a minor drawback. The threaded cap that secures the plug end into the light is too shallow. It is difficult to grasp and turn. 

Other: 

There is plenty of usable light immediately after the switch is turned on. From 3-6 seconds the beam intensity increases and starts as a cool white color (guessing about 7000K) which changes and stabilizes at 4200K. The light seems to reach full intensity in a total of 10-12 seconds. Hot restrike appears to be instantaneous.

I haven't tested the following:
Water resistance
Battery run time / Charge time

-underdog


----------



## XeVision (Dec 6, 2005)

*Re: New Taiwanese 50W HID*



underdog said:


> Sure. AZ Project Light -underdog


 
Thanks for the comments.

Reminder, AZ Project is not the maker so we could call it the Taiwanese light. Note: Subject name change. 
Since I will begin distribution as the sole importer for North America beginnining January 2006 we could call it the "XeVision light". But that is for all of you to decide. I think we will call it the XeVision, Tactical (selfcontained HID/Xenon Searchlight) Any suggestions? We want to include the Xe in front of the product name for consistancy with the rest of our product offerings. www.XeVision.com 

Dan


----------



## RalphRussell (Dec 6, 2005)

*Re: New XeVision 50W HID*

Dan, How about "XeRaptor by XeVision"?


----------



## Lurveleven (Dec 6, 2005)

*Re: New XeVision 50W HID*

XeFar

Sigbjoern


----------



## Sky (Dec 6, 2005)

*Re: New XeVision 50W HID*

How about "XeRay" by XeVision. A 50 watt tactical selfcontained Hid/Xenon searchlight..............Sky


----------



## JimH (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

I'm a little confused. In the link in the original post of this thread, the focusing range is stated as *"Focusing adjustment: 0.1 - 15 Degrees"*. Looking at the picture from Underdog, the beam of the ZJ Project light sure looks considerably wider than 0.1 degrees.

Is the narrow focus really 0.1 degrees or could this be a translation error by babelfish.


----------



## XeVision (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



JimH said:


> I'm a little confused. In the link in the original post of this thread, the focusing range is stated as *"Focusing adjustment: 0.1 - 15 Degrees"*. Looking at the picture from Underdog, the beam of the ZJ Project light sure looks considerably wider than 0.1 degrees.
> 
> Is the narrow focus really 0.1 degrees or could this be a translation error by babelfish.


 
No, this is the claimed numbers by the manufacturer. I believe we are dealing with a technical communications error. I believe what they are possibly trying to say is that the hot spot (most intense part) beam angle is (possibly) that narrow. It is optically impossible for the entire beam to be less than a couple to a few degrees using a 4.2mm arc gap, using only a parabolic reflector. Only the true very short arc gap lights of approx 1 mm or so could begin to approach such a narrow columnated beam. Another issue when discussing beam angles is, are we talking 1/2 angle or the full angle. 1/2 angle is only measured from the beam centerline out to one side. Beam 1/2 angle will always be 1/2 of the full angle measured from one side to the other. 

I will not make any corrected beam angle claims until Mr Ted Bear has completed the shootout tests in a few weeks. I prefer to let a more objective party comment on this issue before I do. This would also best be done with a clarification of term definitions.


----------



## lightlust (Dec 13, 2005)

Name items to ponder:Xerxes was a classical bigshot.
The Xenosaurus can bite your toe in Central America.
A Xenops is the only bird no one can seem to get an unblurred picture of.​


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## Lunarmodule (Dec 13, 2005)

:wow:This thread has taken a unexpected and very interesting turn! 

My attention is now pretty riveted! Cheers to Ralph Russell, I spotted your mod on eBay and it was the catalyst behind my joining (and obsessing over) CPF! I thought it was a phenom idea and I purposely bookmarked XeVision's site as a reference standard for high-output HID offerings. I couldnt swing the cost at the time put it planted several seeds of curiosity about HID applications other than automotive, particularly flashlights (!!)

Thanks to you I've spent a bizillion dollars on all manner of lighting gear, with a twisted smile on my face. Would have been cheaper just to buy your light at the time and been done with my quest for the Portable Lighthouse.

It has ever since been my dream of seeing a lightweight (relatively) handheld HID system with 35 or 50W capability. I immediately jumped on the Acro x990 and it is my reference standard for ultimate output, but I know more can be had and it sure doesnt have to weigh 8 pounds!

Been looking at the Rayzorlite as the only viable alternative until now... this XeLight might just be the ticket. I really like the focusability feature, adds a lot of versatility to the package. Wish my Costco HID was focusable, thats where the Acro really has an edge.

Replaceable (modular) battery packs maybe? Other than smaller and lighter I couldnt think of room to improve a 50W platform like this. 

I'm curious if the ballast used in this light could be adapted to a cylindrical can shape and perhaps another model might be designed similar to Modamag's stellar LeBeau light, see homemade and modified for a description. Would make a killer handheld, but I'm dreaming out loud.

Refreshing to see a manufacturer embrace a different market segment, since the jist of your very well done website is aviation-focused (pun). Glad to see you here on CPF and offering to hear input from the (understatement) enthusiasts here!  THAT makes for a great light!

Best of luck in your endeavors and you now have one more potential buyer on your hands!

Now, to console my overused Paypal account...


----------



## XeVision (Dec 16, 2005)

This is cross posted from another thread. Though it might get more exposure here.

All HID's are not the same!! DC type arc tubes like the Welch Allyn (W.A.), and I am pretty sure also Brightstar and other sub 30 watt HID are DC only. There is a problem with AC driven bulbs below about 28 watts, the arc becomes unstable. Also DC only ballasts can be made about 1/2 the size and 1/2 the cost of AC output ballasts. Bulb life will be greatly diminished if you don't connect polarity properly. Also W.A. cannot be hot restriked due to the extreme voltages required. I am pretty sure that Both Maxabeam and Xenonics use DC driven short arc bulbs, they are made by 2 different American arc tube makers. In a DC (current flowing only one direction) arc tube, one electrode is a Cathode the other an Anode. Mostly one electrode, the anode is eroded (looses thoriated tungsten material). In DC powered HID's the anode is a much thicker electrode than the cathode. Electric current passes from the cathode to the anode, producing. much higher rates of electrode erosion on the anode than cathode. Anode (+) and Cathode (-). 
Counterintuitive to what we have mostly been taught, electrons actually flow from neg to pos. College Physics.
Automotive type of HID's being an AC rather than a DC system at 300-400 Hz typically, both electrodes share the duty of being cathode and anode this change occurs at the same rate of 300 to 400 times per second. In AC powered HID's both electrodes erode at the same rate. since both share equal time as anode and cathode. The net result is longer life.


----------



## MSI (Dec 17, 2005)

So what you are saying is that we double the size and cost to get longer bulb life? A good trade-off in automotive applications, but IMO not a good trade-off in flashlights. The size and weight is much more important than life of the bulb.


----------



## XeVision (Dec 17, 2005)

> So what you are saying is that we double the size and cost to get longer bulb life? A good trade-off in automotive applications, but IMO not a good trade-off in flashlights. The size and weight is much more important than life of the bulb.


 
The batteries take up much more space and weight than the ballast. The difference in ballast cost AC / DC output is only maybe $20.00 manufacturing cost. Also, in my mind, the hot restrike capability, increased lumens per watt efficiency of output, *less* fragile and susceptibility to failure of arc tube from vibration and shock of the automotive types are more important. We are developing a new ballasts that is 87% efficient and 1/2 the volume and 2/3 the weight of more typical ones currently available.


----------



## Mr Ted Bear (Dec 20, 2005)

I am pleased to report that XeVision's shipment from Taiwan has arrived here in the states. It will be a day or two before it clears customs, then they will need to inspect the shipment for quality control, and install the bulbs. etc etc. Bottomline, Dan hopes to have a unit to me in time for Xmas. 

Also, I received the reviesed commercial invoice for the _RAZORS _ and I should have that AWB# in the next couple of hours.


----------



## Lunarmodule (Dec 20, 2005)

XeVision said:


> The batteries take up much more space and weight than the ballast. The difference in ballast cost AC / DC output is only maybe $20.00 manufacturing cost. Also, in my mind, the hot restrike capability, increased lumens per watt efficiency of output, *less* fragile and susceptibility to failure of arc tube from vibration and shock of the automotive types are more important. We are developing a new ballasts that is 87% efficient and 1/2 the volume and 2/3 the weight of more typical ones currently available. We use all SMT and planar core transformer technology, developed for cellphones and other miniaturization applications.



Could I put in an urgent plea to have consideration for a cylindrical can shape as a possibility for the new ballast design? This would be for incorporation into custom HID designs with a more conventional flashlight shape. There are some currently on the market but are restricted to OEMs and have reportedly some reliability issues. A compact cylinder shape would open the door for a wave of custom modders to be able to plunge into HID and make some unusual high performance lights. Thats very good news on your R&D progress, BTW!


----------



## That_Guy (Dec 20, 2005)

So have the Rayzors been shipped?


----------



## Mr Ted Bear (Dec 22, 2005)

The RAZORS are in the air, and the XeVsion is coming by second day air; all lights are expected on Friday


----------



## Sway (Dec 22, 2005)

Thanks for the update Jeff, I'm looking foward to....well darn right excited about you receiving the lights and some insight on them :santa:

Later
Kelly


----------



## gregw (Dec 22, 2005)

Mr Ted Bear said:


> The RAZORS are in the air, and the XeVsion is coming by second day air; all lights are expected on Friday



Good to hear that this is finally coming together!! :rock: Looking forward to pictures and comments from the ShootOut!! :naughty:


----------



## grift (Dec 22, 2005)

gregw said:


> Good to hear that this is finally coming together!! :rock: Looking forward to pictures and comments from the ShootOut!! :naughty:


 
ditto,,,, i CANT WAIT for this shootout!!!!

i think alot of us will be sitting on slimmer wallets once this shootout happens. alot of us have just been waiting to see what Mr. TB has to say before we plunk serious coinage for one of these THROWMONSTERS.


----------



## Mr Ted Bear (Dec 23, 2005)

one of five boxes has now arrived







two more are on FEDEX trucks and will be delivered sometime later today

one is on a UPS truck and will be deilvierd sometime later today

box number 5 like flying so much, it decided to check out the east coast. being seperated from the group, it got misplaced in customs, but now it's cleared, and is on it's way back to Los Angeles.

So, reviews and shot out vey soon.....

Raffle for 2 RAZORS to follow after XMAS....


----------



## CroMAGnet (Dec 23, 2005)

Mr Ted Bear said:


> Raffle for 2 RAZORS to follow after XMAS....


Raffle!?? *I Feel Lucky!!!!*


----------



## ddaadd (Dec 23, 2005)

WOW !! Look at them scorchers, will I be getting my pick of these after winning the raffle?? 

he he, this is gonna be good !!


----------



## McGizmo (Dec 24, 2005)




----------



## nemul (Dec 24, 2005)

Mr Ted Bear said:


> one of five boxes has now arrived
> box number 5 like flying so much, it decided to check out the east coast.



I'm in GA it's coming to my place! lol


----------



## Mr Ted Bear (Dec 24, 2005)

preliminary testing between xmas shopping and parties is two thumbs up. now, just gotta find time to do the formal review and shootout. x990 and others, make room.. new kids on the block that look preety darn nice.


----------



## jtice (Dec 24, 2005)

Jeff,

I must admit, that I have not kept up on this thread enough.
But I have a Question.

Why do the lights in your last pic there, look totally different from the lights on the website?
Ones on the site look alittle more well made, less plastic look.

But its what comes out the from that matters 
Look forward to your shots !

~John


----------



## That_Guy (Dec 24, 2005)

So what lights are you going to compare the Rayzors to? If it's not too much trouble I'd like to see how they compare to the Taiwanese 50W HID, the new Kumkang Polarion, and the old Kumkang that Kenshiro reviewed. 

Also, do you have any plans to review any of the new 24W HIDs or the new 28W Reva RI-2200?


----------



## cue003 (Dec 24, 2005)

Glad to see things are arriving. Looking forward to the shootout and especially the results. I hope you got some Rayzorlites in one of those packages. Version 2 seems promising and will be interesting to see how things pan out with them all.

Curtis


----------



## Lunarmodule (Dec 24, 2005)

I wonder if the XeVision/AZ Project light(s) arrived as well. Its time to start a fresh new thread for the Rayzors and this impending comparo. Wow Mr. Ted Bear you certainly have a tremendous amount of attention focused on you now! Hope you can quickly post some of your preliminary findings just to whet the appetites out here in HID consumer land. Goes without saying we have been dying to see this come together, the XEV/AZ light arriving as well makes it a double bonus. BTW, a Merry Christmas to you and to all CPFers!!!

(cue the Santa gif I dont have handy)


----------



## PoliceScannerMan (Dec 24, 2005)

That_Guy said:


> So what lights are you going to compare the Rayzors to? If it's not too much trouble I'd like to see how they compare to the Taiwanese 50W HID, the new Kumkang Polarion, and the old Kumkang that Kenshiro reviewed.
> 
> Also, do you have any plans to review any of the new 24W HIDs or the new 28W Reva RI-2200?



Hell, and compare throw to the infamous Costco HID....

Cant wait to hear,
-PSM


----------



## MaxaBaker (Dec 24, 2005)




----------



## XeVision (Dec 24, 2005)

Lunarmodule said:


> I wonder if the XeVision/AZ Project light(s) arrived as well. Its time to start a fresh new thread for the Rayzors and this impending comparo. Wow Mr. Ted Bear you certainly have a tremendous amount of attention focused on you now! Hope you can quickly post some of your preliminary findings just to whet the appetites out here in HID consumer land. Goes without saying we have been dying to see this come together, the XEV/AZ light arriving as well makes it a double bonus.


 
Mr. Ted Bear Does have our XeVision 50 watt HID "XeRay" He verified by phone to me that he got it yesterday.


----------



## Mr Ted Bear (Dec 24, 2005)

Scope of shootout 

ZeRay 50 watt
Razorlite 30/50… ver 1 & ver 2
Razorbeam 30/50… ver 1 &ver 2, plus COSTCO hid.

X990, KumgKang/Polarion are the baseline comparison units. If anyone has the 24 watt units (AE, Brightstar) they can loan, I am willing to pay the freight both ways.

The higher wattage units have a noticeable, greater lumen output plus the refletors (all lights) match/exceed what we have seen in the past. 

There is a lot of difference in the beam patterns of the two brands, so pictures will be needed to appreciate the capbilities


----------



## PoliceScannerMan (Dec 24, 2005)

Mr Ted Bear said:


> plus COSTCO hid.



:thanks: :goodjob: :naughty: :rock:  

-PSM


----------



## cue003 (Dec 24, 2005)




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## NewBie (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



XeVision said:


> No, this is the claimed numbers by the manufacturer. I believe we are dealing with a technical communications error. I believe what they are possibly trying to say is that the hot spot (most intense part) beam angle is (possibly) that narrow. It is optically impossible for the entire beam to be less than a couple to a few degrees using a 4.2mm arc gap, using only a parabolic reflector. Only the true very short arc gap lights of approx 1 mm or so could begin to approach such a narrow columnated beam. Another issue when discussing beam angles is, are we talking 1/2 angle or the full angle. 1/2 angle is only measured from the beam centerline out to one side. Beam 1/2 angle will always be 1/2 of the full angle measured from one side to the other.
> 
> I will not make any corrected beam angle claims until Mr Ted Bear has completed the shootout tests in a few weeks. I prefer to let a more objective party comment on this issue before I do. This would also best be done with a clarification of term definitions.




So you are saying this light has something like the DL50 blub with it's 4.2mm arc?

Mr. Ted Bear, any chances you could do your shots at known distances, with objects that a person could use to determine spot sizes, so that we could get a good idea of the beam angles on the various lights?


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## XeVision (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



NewBie said:


> So you are saying this light has something like the DL50 blub with it's 4.2mm arc??


 
DL50 has 3.9mm arc.


----------



## NewBie (Dec 26, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



XeVision said:


> DL50 has 3.9mm arc.



Well, here is one link for the 4.2mm arc gap:
http://www.nuconverter.de/assets/mpxldl50.jpg

And another, for a 3.9mm arc gap DL50, a standard bulb from philips:
http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/dl50phil.pdf


----------



## PGP (Dec 26, 2005)

You can borrow my Brightstar 24W HID if you want. I live in Anaheim, Could drop it off today depending where in LA you live.

Patrick!



Mr Ted Bear said:


> Scope of shootout
> 
> ZeRay 50 watt
> Razorlite 30/50… ver 1 & ver 2
> ...


----------



## BVH (Dec 26, 2005)

What a great thread! Can't wait to see the beamshots! Mr. Ted, if you're in the SF Valley, let some of us know when you're going to point them towards the Heavens so we can get a glimpse. Heck, even if you're in L.A., we might be able to still see them! OK?


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## Mr Ted Bear (Dec 27, 2005)

BVH said:


> What a great thread! Can't wait to see the beamshots! [snip]



That make's two of us  

There will soon be a new thread for the shootout #3...


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## Sway (Dec 27, 2005)

Oh' never mind


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## cue003 (Dec 27, 2005)

Mr Ted Bear said:


> That make's two of us
> 
> There will soon be a new thread for the shootout #3...




How soon??? I am chomping at the bit here. It am sitting in front of my computer refreshing the screen like a crack addict. LOL... 

I want to know, I need to know, I must know the outcome and SOON....

Hope everyone had a good Christmas.

Curtis


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## Mr Ted Bear (Dec 27, 2005)

we are working on it


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## XeVision (Dec 30, 2005)

One word of comment. The AZ project version (not ours) of this light uses an Asian made D2S bulb, most typically 6000K. 
For our XeVision "XeRay" (TM) we install a GE D2S 4,200K bulb for long life and consistant & dependable performance. For maximum lumens 4200K is prefered. These bulbs will colorshift within 50 hours of use (50 watts) to about 5000K or so. All name brand OEM D2S 4200K bulbs will color shift up to this ~5000K+ color temp in 50-100 operation hours depending on operating wattage and useage patterns


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## NewBie (Dec 30, 2005)

XeVision said:


> One word of comment. The AZ project version (not ours) of this light uses an Asian made D2S bulb, most typically 6000K.
> For our XeVision "XeRay" (TM) we install a GE D2S 4,200K bulb for long life and consistant & dependable performance. For maximum lumens 4200K is prefered. These bulbs will colorshift within 50 hours of use (50 watts) to about 5000K or so. All name brand OEM D2S 4200K bulbs will color shift up to this ~5000K+ color temp in 50-100 operation hours depending on operating wattage and useage patterns




This one?
http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/ged2shid.pdf


----------



## gregw (Dec 31, 2005)

XeVision said:


> One word of comment. The AZ project version (not ours) of this light uses an Asian made D2S bulb, most typically 6000K.
> For our XeVision "XeRay" (TM) we install a GE D2S 4,200K bulb for long life and consistant & dependable performance. For maximum lumens 4200K is prefered. These bulbs will colorshift within 50 hours of use (50 watts) to about 5000K or so. All name brand OEM D2S 4200K bulbs will color shift up to this ~5000K+ color temp in 50-100 operation hours depending on operating wattage and useage patterns



I believe that the AZ Project version of this light also comes standard with the 4200K bulb as well. The 3000K, 6000K, 8000K and 10000K bulbs are options..


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## XeVision (Dec 31, 2005)

NewBie said:


> This one?
> http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/ged2shid.pdf


 
Yes, except that is an old preliminary document. Newer document says 4200K and we drive it at 50 watts not 35 watts. This gets us 5300 lumens.


----------



## XeVision (Dec 31, 2005)

gregw said:


> I believe that the AZ Project version of this light also comes standard with the 4200K bulb as well. The 3000K, 6000K, 8000K and 10000K bulbs are options..


 
They do use an Asian made 4200K (NOT name brand) but I believe their 6000K is mostly sold and more popular.


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## Mr Ted Bear (Dec 31, 2005)

Abbreviated review: 2 thumbs up

Will post complete review tommorrow, just need to sleep on it one more night.


----------



## pr5owner (Dec 31, 2005)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*



mckevin said:


> Wow, looking back I guess there *was* a girl in the photo. Guess I've spent _way_ too much time lately looking at beamshots...



what girl?


----------



## XenonM3 (Dec 31, 2005)

Sorry if I missed the post, but is the XeRay on sale yet? :thanks:


----------



## gregw (Dec 31, 2005)

XenonM3 said:


> Sorry if I missed the post, but is the XeRay on sale yet? :thanks:



See post #116 in this thread. You should be able to contact Xevision and put in your order pretty soon..


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## cue003 (Dec 31, 2005)

Looking forward to reading this review. 

Curtis


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## XeVision (Jan 1, 2006)

XenonM3 said:


> Sorry if I missed the post, but is the XeRay on sale yet? :thanks:


 
Once *ALL* the review details are in I am going to offer a group buy. I may do this just one time only or depending on how it goes, possibly 1 or 2 times per year for CPF members only. It all depends on the response. For this group buy, we have decided to charge $570.00 per unit FOB Ogden, Utah USA. I originally *estimated* $550.00 USD but including the much more expensive (Not Asian) GE bulb, we have settled on this price for the group buy. I will begin taking orders within a few days after the final complete results of the shootout are published. Most likely sometime the 1st or second week of January. The group buy will run for 10 to 16 day depending on response. List price (Suggested Retail) for these units will be $795.00 including locking carry case, shoulder strap, AC charge adapter and DC charger (cig. lighter adapter). We will be ready to ship the units out to GB purchasers 3-5 weeks after the GB closes.

Dan 
XeVision


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## cue003 (Jan 1, 2006)

XeVision, wow, that is an excellent offer....

XeRay 50
locking carry case
shoulder strap
AC charge adapter
DC charge adapter

ALL THAT FOR THE CPF PRICE OF $570.

Will that price include shipping?

Curtis


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## XeVision (Jan 1, 2006)

cue003 said:


> XeVision, wow, that is an excellent offer....
> 
> XeRay 50
> locking carry case
> ...


 
North American Customers pay shipping from Ogden, Utah to wherever, we prefer to use UPS. If outside of North America, (if desired), special dropshipment is possible direct from Taiwan. This will save on double customs and double shipping.


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## cue003 (Jan 1, 2006)

Can you run the XeRay while it is charging using the DC charge adapter? How about the AC adapter?

Thanks again.

Curtis


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## XeVision (Jan 1, 2006)

Both 35 and 50 watt XeRay Searchlights are available. The units are identical in *EVERY* way with the exception of the ballast. The 50 watt units offer a 90-95 min runtime while our 35 watt units offer about 150 minutes. Pricing is the same for either 35 or 50 watt models. For a customer who wants both 35 and 50 watt capability, we can offer an extra ballast for the alternate wattage. Ballasts can easily be changed over with minimal effort and skill being required. This complete process takes about 20 minutes. Spare ballasts are normally $195.00 but for the group buy will be $150.00

*If anyone is interested* I will work up pricing on extra battery packs as well. Replacement bulbs are $85.00. I noticed the Polarion Sales site provided recently, shows them charging $125.00 for a replacement bulb (Philips bulb I believe) that bulb costs them 20% less than the GE. They really should not be charging more than $75.00 for that bulb.


----------



## XeVision (Jan 1, 2006)

cue003 said:


> Can you run the XeRay while it is charging using the DC charge adapter? How about the AC adapter?
> 
> Thanks again. Curtis


 
The AC charger only puts out 2.3 amps at 19 VDC not enough to operate the light. At that voltage 3.3 amps is needed just to run the light plus you'd be trying to charge at the same time. The DC charger adapter cannot be used to power the light and charge simultaneously either. In combination that is over 100 watts, about 40 watts to charge and about 60 watts including ballast for the light. At 12 volts thats more than 8 amps. I am not sure that the cig lighters in autos are rated to take that load for any significant period of time if at all. I'd have to check the fuses in my car.


----------



## That_Guy (Jan 1, 2006)

Just wondering, what ballast does the XeVision use? Is it custom made, or just an existing OEM ballast?


----------



## XeVision (Jan 1, 2006)

That_Guy said:


> Just wondering, what ballast does the XeVision use? Is it custom made, or just an existing OEM ballast?


 
Custom Made. An EE friend of mine is the designer of the ballast and electronics interface. He has designed all of my aviation/aerospace and industrial applications ballasts as well. None of the major OEM Automotive ballast makers offer anything except 35 watt.


----------



## gregw (Jan 1, 2006)

How easy is it to change out the battery? Can the charger be plugged directly to the spare battery pack without putting it in the XeRay?


----------



## cue003 (Jan 1, 2006)

If there is a 35W version as well, how come you decided not to have it take part in the Superlights III shootout?

50W complete light-- $570 - 95 min runtime
35W complete light-- $570 - 150 min runtime

35W+50W -- $720 -- 1 complete light with one output at a time. Requires ballast change (approx 20 min process) to get different output/runtime

Replacement bulbs - $85 each (for 35W and 50W)

Only thing missing is the extra battery cost -- ?????? (Taken from later in this thread... extra battery is $125)

Ok I think I am following so far.

Is there enough room in the case for the extra battery and ballast?

Curtis


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## XeVision (Jan 1, 2006)

gregw said:


> How easy is it to change out the battery? Can the charger be plugged directly to the spare battery pack without putting it in the XeRay?


 
A few minutes to change Li-Ion battery pack. No, unfortunately it must be charged while installed in the light. 

If there was enough interest, I would consider offering a 2nd external charger.


----------



## XeVision (Jan 1, 2006)

cue003 said:


> If there is a 35W version as well, how come you decided not to have it take part in the Superlights III shootout?
> 
> 50W complete light-- $570 - 95 min runtime
> 35W complete light-- $570 - 150 min runtime
> ...


 
It was not so much that I decided not to. This whole thing was arranged on such short notice. We only got in the loop on this event a few weeks ago. I thought people would only/mostly be interested in the "big guns". We did not have enough spare units at the time. If they still want to, we can still arrange to do this.

The same bulb is used for both outputs. I will post the spare Li-Ion battery pack later in the week. The foam in the travel case can be cut out to fit a ballast and spare battery pack.


----------



## Mr Ted Bear (Jan 1, 2006)

my review of the XeRay can be found  here


----------



## gregw (Jan 1, 2006)

Mr Ted Bear said:


> my review of the XeRay can be found  here



Thanks for the writeup! :rock:


----------



## BVH (Jan 1, 2006)

Dan, will you be starting a new Group Buy thread on this or will this be the place to sign up if one wants one?


----------



## XeVision (Jan 1, 2006)

BVH said:


> Dan, will you be starting a new Group Buy thread on this or will this be the place to sign up if one wants one?


 
How is it usually done here? Ultimately once the GB purchasing list is finalized you will contact me with purchasing info via e-mail or Toll Free phone #

Dan


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## BVH (Jan 2, 2006)

I would think you might want to informaly gauge interest here and then if sufficient interest exists, start a group buy thread on the root page under the BUY/SELL/TRADE main heading - Group Buys & Passarounds subheading, posting all pertinent data such as itemized pricing for a complete "kit", tax, shipping charges and options like extra batteries, ballasts and lamps, etc., warranty and estimated delivery time. You could also do something in the Manufacturer/Dealer area. Hey, how about being a "CPF supporting Dealer"?


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## gregw (Jan 2, 2006)

XeVision said:


> It was not so much that I decided not to. This whole thing was arranged on such short notice. We only got in the loop on this event a few weeks ago. I thought people would only/mostly be interested in the "big guns". We did not have enough spare units at the time. If they still want to, we can still arrange to do this.
> 
> The same bulb is used for both outputs. I will post the spare Li-Ion battery pack later in the week. The foam in the travel case can be cut out to fit a ballast and spare battery pack.



Dan,

I just want to check if the GE bulb used is a true 50W HID bulb or is it just a 35W that is over driven by the 50W ballast? Also, where is the GE bulb manufactured?

This was a question that was brought up earlier with regards to the AZ Project HID bulb, and the answer from AZ Project is that it comes with a true 50W HID bulb, and that the life of the bulb will not be decreased by driving it at 50W versus a decreased service life if you put in a 35W HID bulb and over driving it at 50W..


----------



## Lunarmodule (Jan 2, 2006)

My understanding is a D2S's light output is determined by the ballast driving it, the "bulb" is the same, be it 35W 50W or 75W. The D2S is an industry standard with requirements for quality as they are certified for automotive applications. A 50W ballast driving a D2S is not "overdriving" it, thats a concept for incan lights with a filament determining the output. I would imagine that the life hours may be reduced by a higher drive due to more rapid electrode erosion, but in the realm of thousands of hours of useful life does that really make for an issue?


----------



## gregw (Jan 2, 2006)

That's an interesting answer... It would have been educational if this was brought up in answer to the same question that was brought up by suvlights.com in his post as follows:



suvlights.com said:


> The light was most likely made in Taiwan or China probably using a 50W ballast driving a 35W HID bulb.
> 
> I've seen several similar lights claiming increased brightness using the 50W ballast driving a 35W bulb concept but light output, lumen maintence, color shift, and life span can suffer considerably as a result.



It may not be much of a real concern as bulb life maybe measured in the thousand of hours, but how about lumen maintenance? Would a true 50W HID bulb be more efficient, and therefore have a greater lumens output than a 35W driven at 50W? As far as I can tell, the only difference between the XeVision version versus the AZ Project version of this light is the bulb. Everything else is the same.

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the Groupbuy or anything, but it is also interesting to note the difference in price where AZ Project is selling this light in Japan (one of the most expensive countries in the world) for a suggested retail price of JPY$57,500 (approx US$488 at today's exchange rate) versus a Groupbuy price of $570 from XeVision.. I believe that Underdog bought his from Japan, so the problems that everyone feared about not being able to get this through US Customs is unfounded.


----------



## Lunarmodule (Jan 2, 2006)

Certainly Dan is the man to qualify a precise answer, but I can tell you that all HID "bulbs" are not created equally. I had a Microfire Warrior 10W HID light that used an Asian made analog of the Welch Allyn 10W ballast and bulb as used in the UK LC 100. They looked almost identical. However, when substituting a WA "bulb" in place of the copycat design, there was noticeably better brightness and color uniformity with fewer artifacts. Chalk that up to a higher level of consistency and quality in the details of envelope shaping, electrode material, what have you. End result is the "original" was markedly better performing. Other CPFers confirmed this. I was stunned.

With D2S bulbs there certianly are varied sources of material, and from what I gleaned the GE is amongst the priciest and highest quality, accompanied by Philips, and surely some secondary manufacturers. Dan would know much more than I. The quality index of the bulb's manufacturer is pivotally important. I still think a D2S is a uniform standard of bulb specs and output is ballast related, and I beseech Dan to clarify the point. I would imagine that any "cheap" part will lack the performance and longevity standards of the "expensive" ones. I think this is a quality issue and that power ratings may have been misrepresented to express that point.


----------



## gregw (Jan 2, 2006)

I do agree with your point as to the difference in quality between a China made HID bulb versus a US made WA bulb in the Microfire K500 HID flashlight. I have seen the difference myself. However, in this case, I'm pretty sure that the bulb used in the AZ Project 50W HID isn't made in China, so the point is pretty much moot. China made HIDs are not up to world standards yet, but other asian countries such as Taiwan and Korea manufacture most of the world's OEM HID bulbs for the car industry, so I'm pretty sure their bulbs would be up to spec.. Just because something is made in an "asian" country doesn't automatically mean it's not any good. The XeRay is after all, an OEM from Taiwan...


----------



## That_Guy (Jan 2, 2006)

The "big 3" of D2S HID bulbs are Philips, Osram and GE. As far as I know they are all made in Germany. All D2S bulbs are designed to be able to be run at 75W because automotive ballasts overdrive them during start-up to both accelerate warm-up and increase the usable light during warm-up.

Philips makes a bulb called the DL50 which is similar to a standard D2S bulb but designed to run at 50W and much more expensive. I don't really know what the differences are. Spec wise it isn't much different to a standard 35W D2S operating at 50W: it's colour temp. shifts down (yellower) and it has a reduced life. It's probably just a D2S built with tighter tolerances. It might use a thicker quartz envelope due to the higher internal pressure but I'm not too sure. Markdi has one so he would be the best person to ask what the differences are.

I guess "true" 50W lamp wouldn't have these problems, but as far as I know none exist. Even if one was made, it wouldn't be as good because it would have to have a longer arc and would likely be less efficient.


----------



## cue003 (Jan 2, 2006)

Can the XeRay be stood up on the end to be put into "candle" mode? It doesn't look like it in the pictures but I was just wondering.

That is one of the features I liked about the x990.... 

Curtis


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 2, 2006)

XeVision said:


> North American Customers pay shipping from Ogden, Utah to wherever, we prefer to use UPS. If outside of North America, (if desired), special dropshipment is possible direct from Taiwan. This will save on double customs and double shipping.



So dropshipment direct from Taiwain for international customers will mean a price lower than the $570 US price because you don't have to pay the shipping and custom costs to get it into US first? I'm insterested in one or two lights shipped that way.

Sigbjoern


----------



## XeVision (Jan 2, 2006)

That_Guy said:


> The "big 3" of D2S HID bulbs are Philips, Osram and GE. As far as I know they are all made in Germany. All D2S bulbs are designed to be able to be run at 75W because automotive ballasts overdrive them during start-up to both accelerate warm-up and increase the usable light during warm-up.
> 
> Philips makes a bulb called the DL50 which is similar to a standard D2S bulb but designed to run at 50W and much more expensive. I don't really know what the differences are. Spec wise it isn't much different to a standard 35W D2S operating at 50W: it's colour temp. shifts down (yellower) and it has a reduced life. It's probably just a D2S built with tighter tolerances. It might use a thicker quartz envelope due to the higher internal pressure but I'm not too sure. Markdi has one so he would be the best person to ask what the differences are.
> 
> I guess "true" 50W lamp wouldn't have these problems, but as far as I know none exist. Even if one was made, it wouldn't be as good because it would have to have a longer arc and would likely be less efficient.


 
Okay guys here we go. The only "true" 50 watt bulb was made by Philips, the DL-50 (no longer made) We have done performance testing comparing the DL-50 to the GE D2S (Note they both use the same P32d socket base). It is untrue that most automotive HID bulbs are being made in Korea or Asia. ALL The Philips and Osram (Sylvania) D1 and D2 OEM Automotive HID bulbs are made in Germany. GE is made in Hungary. The only Automotive HID bulbs being made in Asia are for the illegal in USA junk conversion kits. The only possible exception to this might be cars made in Asia other than Japanese cars.
As for the testing, the life and lumens maintenance, the GE 4200K D2S is reduced by about 25% when driven at 50 watts. The GE seems to have the best performance at 50 watts of the "Big 3 makers" (P, O, GE). There is a limited supply of DL-50 bulbs out there but they cost more than double what the standard D2S costs. Soooo, with a 25% reduction in life but you can buy 2 bulbs for the price of one, what are the economics? I think the best choice is obvious. 
The AZ project bulb is Asian made by a relative unknown company. Their claim of 50 watts is less than completly factual. I could say the same thing about the GE. I was even told not to drive the included "50 watt" bulb over 45 watts by my EE friend who designed the ballast package. There is NOTHING special about this bulb to make it a "true" 50 watt. The arc envelope is not larger like the Philips DL-50. I am quite sure it will not perform as well or outlive the GE bulb I am using.
The ARC length in a DL-50 is actually just slightly smaller. It is also of a slightly lower color temp than a standard D2S. I have compared them side by side with the std. D2S the only benefit at 50 watts is the 25% life difference including lumens maintenance. The standard GE D2S will also color shift up to the 5000K area sooner at 50 watts than at 35 watts than will the DL-50. Most people prefer a whiter colored light.
Let me know if I missed anything or if you need any additional clarification.


----------



## XeVision (Jan 2, 2006)

cue003 said:


> Can the XeRay be stood up on the end to be put into "candle" mode? It doesn't look like it in the pictures but I was just wondering.
> 
> That is one of the features I liked about the x990....
> Curtis



Yes it can, however the cap for charging must be opened for it to sit level. 

The bulb life on all HID's will at least suffer a little from this type of long term operation. The heat from the plasma is concentrated at the upper glass pinch and could result in some bullb life reduction.


----------



## XeVision (Jan 2, 2006)

By the way, the brew of chemical in the arc tube used by Philips, Osram and GE includes at least one "special" additive which is only available from one supplier in the world. This product is by contract from the one supplier, only available to the big 3 makers. This is to control world pricing on OEM HID bulb technology. Some might say this is the ugly side of BIG business. You cant blame them for trying to protect their investment since pattents don't work all that well in Asia, controlling supply and availability is their best option. Interesting these 3 companies GE, Philips and (Siemens) Osram (old name Sylvania) do these types of things more frequently than you might think.


----------



## XeVision (Jan 3, 2006)

Our XeRay searchlight warranty is 1 year parts and labor. All warranty service will be provided in USA.

Reliable Sales (XeVision) division of Reliable Equipment & Engineering, Inc. (a Utah Corporation), in business since 1987. www.XeVision.com 

We have many well known users of our Aviation/Aerospace and industrial HID lighting systems. Our aviation HID systems are even in use on the Goodyear Blimp.


----------



## That_Guy (Jan 3, 2006)

So the DL-50 has a larger envelope? That explains the difference between it and standard D2S bulbs. So is the only difference between the DL-50 and standard D2S bulbs is longer life at 50W? The DL-50 spec sheet shows that is has a shorter life at 50W than the DL-35 at 35W (3000h vs. 5000h), although the DL-35 is different to a standard D2S.


----------



## cue003 (Jan 3, 2006)

XeVision said:


> Yes it can, however the cap for charging must be opened for it to sit level.
> 
> The bulb life on all HID's will at least suffer a little from this type of long term operation. The heat from the plasma is concentrated at the upper glass pinch and could result in some bullb life reduction.



The bulb life will suffer..... is this measurable type suffering.... as in if I do it 1 out of ever 15 times of use for a full runtime pointing up, how much can I expect to lose on the bulb life? 

It may be a mute point since candle mode will not be the main mode of operation. I just wanted to know that if needed it can be done. But if I do it 2 times for full 95 minute runtime each time, I don't want my bulb life to be cut in half because of it.

Thanks.

Curtis


----------



## That_Guy (Jan 4, 2006)

I'd be interested in the answer to this as well. When I finally get a HID light I would like to use it to light up the whole room during power failures which would be a continuous 3 hours if I end up getting a Rayzorbeam.


----------



## gregw (Jan 4, 2006)

XeVision said:


> The AZ project bulb is Asian made by a relative unknown company. Their claim of 50 watts is less than completly factual. I could say the same thing about the GE. I was even told not to drive the included "50 watt" bulb over 45 watts by my EE friend who designed the ballast package. There is NOTHING special about this bulb to make it a "true" 50 watt. The arc envelope is not larger like the Philips DL-50. I am quite sure it will not perform as well or outlive the GE bulb I am using.



That's interesting to know... Since you obviously have the AZ Project bulb on hand, how about sending one of these bulbs, as well as the 35W ballast to Mr Ted Bear to include in the Superlight Shootout? It would be nice to have an objective 3rd party's view and analysis of the performance of the XeRay at 35W versus the X990 and the KumKang Polarian, and also how the performance of the HID bulb used by AZ Project compares to the XeRay GE bulb.


----------



## XeVision (Jan 4, 2006)

> That's interesting to know... Since you obviously have the AZ Project bulb on hand, how about sending one of these bulbs, as well as the 35W ballast to Mr Ted Bear to include in the Superlight Shootout? It would be nice to have an objective 3rd party's view and analysis of the performance of the XeRay at 35W versus the X990 and the KumKang Polarian, and also how the performance of the HID bulb used by AZ Project compares to the XeRay GE bulb.



That is up to Mr Ted Bear, as far as I know this shootout is over.


----------



## cue003 (Jan 4, 2006)

It would be nice since Mr Ted Bear already has the XeRay 50 on hand it would be a quick swap and a quick 3 or 2 light test against the Polarion and the X990. The outcome of the XeRay 35 could be the answer many were looking for. 150min runtime and if it can truely compete with the X990 and the Polarion then we have an all-around winner on our hands. We have a winner now in the 50w market but i am talking all-around. 

Curtis


----------



## XeVision (Jan 4, 2006)

> I'd be interested in the answer to this as well. When I finally get a HID light I would like to use it to light up the whole room during power failures which would be a continuous 3 hours if I end up getting a Rayzorbeam.


 
There is no definitive answer on this. *NONE* of the "big 3" HID burner makers does life tests for this operation position. The technology was not designed for sustained vertical operation. Any comments made as to longevity are purely conjecture at this point. It is quite possible that life is reduced minimally but again no-one knows.


----------



## Mark65 (Jan 4, 2006)

*Re: New 50W HID*



XeVision said:


> My company is finalizing the exclusive agency for this product in North America. www.XeVision.com The product is NOT made in Japan, the Japanese company AZ-Project is just a reseller.
> 
> AZ Project is awaiting for your correction of these comments from XeVision.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rayzorbeam (Jan 4, 2006)

That_Guy said:


> I'd be interested in the answer to this as well. When I finally get a HID light I would like to use it to light up the whole room during power failures which would be a continuous 3 hours if I end up getting a Rayzorbeam.



Hi there That Guy,

As an answer to your comments and needs to operate the tube vertically, I can say from hands on experience at the last 21 months with our products namely Rayzorbeam- Rayzorlite that one parameter for tube longevity is stable temperature in the tube chamber.
When a 35W tube is burning at its specified rate Horizontally the heat generated escapes through the tube centre point naturally, should that tube be positioned Vertically heat absorption takes its toll on the upper rod, and since the expansion rate between the metal rods and the quartz differ from each other, micron cracks open up at the upper bulb section which ultimately leads to gas leakage and bulb failure.
When a 35W Tube is burning at the region of 28W (its nominal region) the heat gradient generated is less severe and resulting in much longer tube life span.
Keep in mind that the tube temperature is around 850 degC (irradiated heat), which the metal rod absorbs and expends, while the quartz has minimal absobtion and hence low expansion rate.
For that reason some manufacturers design dedicated ballasts which are meant to run at lower power. In a normal vehicle situation the tube is always horizontal, in a Hand Held device there will be multitudes of orientations.


----------



## cue003 (Jan 4, 2006)

Rayzrbeam, thanks for the concise response. Good information to know.

Curtis


----------



## XeVision (Jan 4, 2006)

*Re: New 50W HID*

*Below are excerpts from an e-mail I received from AZ-Project on the 12th of Dec. My comments back to them are blue bold print. I responded back to them the same day and they never contacted me again even though I asked them to tell me what I said specifically that is innacurate.*

Hello, I’m writing this e-mail to you for the first time.

I’ve read your post message about Candle Power Forums of 50w HID, that’s why I’m writing this.
I think your comment on Candle Power Forums is very rude and no respect. *I am sorry, it was not my intent to be rude, I was only stating what I understood to be true. It is possible that my understanding is not complete or could be partially inaccurate.*
We, AZ Project are not distributor but manufacturer in Japan. *I understand you are a manufacturer of some products, however this searchlight product is not made in Japan it is also not made ONLY for AZ project. *
I strongly inquire that you would correct your post message as soon as possible. *I will be more than glad to correct any error(s) once I have a more complete understanding. I need to fully know and understand what I said that is not correct. **My only purpose in saying that you are a distributor of this product was to clarify that you are not the maker or designer. I also indicated in my later posting that you may have worked with the manufacturer in recommending improvements. However, I have not confirmed if this is true. *
*Please accept my apology for any misinformation I may have posted. As soon as my understanding is clarified I will correct my statements. Please help me to accurately understand your situation in this matter.*


----------



## XeVision (Jan 4, 2006)

*Re: New 50W HID*

"AZ Project is awaiting for your correction of these comments from XeVision." 
I will fully respond to this long confrontational e-mail (a few posts above by Mark65) this evening. I don't have the time right now.

It was asked earlier what shipping weight is per unit, it is approx. 15 lbs or 7 Kg. We pay almost $6.00 per Kg for shipping to the USA alone that is over $40.00 per unit. That does not include customs and clearance fees, services and bonds. 

USA Domestic UPS ground shipping will be in the $15.00 to $20.00 range including full insured value coverage.


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## Maximus (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi XeVision.

I have been following this thread with great interest.

I live in the UK and have a few questions:
How much would EMS (or other insured) shipping be from Taiwan (factory) to UK ? 

You stated that you use the GE D2S 4200K and that the AZproject version uses Asian bulb. Do your XeRay versions come with the GE bulb from the factory or do you fit these at your site in USA ?

Is the charging regulation/protection built into the charger or the flashlight. Meaning, do I HAVE to use the supplied ac adaptor to charge the flashlight or can any regulated dc supply at the correct current/voltage be used ? 

Will the supplied ac adaptor work on 240v 50Hz ?

Many Thanks.
Mark.


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## XeVision (Jan 4, 2006)

Rayzorbeam said:


> Hi there That Guy, When a 35W Tube is burning at the region of 28W (its nominal region) the heat gradient generated is less severe and resulting in much longer tube life span.


 
I cannot speak for improved seal integrity life of the arc chamber at 28 watts operation, it seams logical. However one must be careful about cathode fall which becomes a potential problem below 30 watts operation with a 4.2 mm arc gap using this bulb technology. With excesive cathode fall occuring the electrode errosion rate increases substantially. 28 watts is right on the edge of that and possibly within the realm where that does occur. Not much below 28 watts it is even difficult to maintain a stable arc (significant flickering or goes out). Also, as the bulb ages the arc gap gets larger with normal erosion rates. As the gap increases, higher voltage is required to maintain the arc. Many bulbs become "worn out" because the arc gap is to large to sustain an arc at 35 watts operation and for no other reason.


----------



## XeVision (Jan 4, 2006)

*Answers to your questions below bold and in blue.*

How much would EMS (or other insured) shipping be from Taiwan (factory) to UK ? *I will have to check into that but I believe EMS with Li-Ion Batteries is a NO NO.*

You stated that you use the GE D2S 4200K and that the AZproject version uses Asian bulb. Do your XeRay versions come with the GE bulb from the factory or do you fit these at your site in USA ?* We can do it both ways. By the way and Mr.Ted Bear can confirm, bulb change is easy and a max 5 minute job to complete. As with all P32d based bulbs, push in and rotate to remove, push in and rotate the opposite direction to install.*

Is the charging regulation/protection built into the charger or the flashlight. Meaning, do I HAVE to use the supplied ac adaptor to charge the flashlight or can any regulated dc supply at the correct current/voltage be used ? *You can use any 19 VDC output with same current capability. The charging control is in the light housing.*

Will the supplied ac adaptor work on 240v 50Hz ? *Yes it comes with a universal charger 100-240 VAC for both 50 or 60 Hz. This charger AC adapter is probably standard for some laptop computers.*


----------



## XeVision (Jan 5, 2006)

XeVision said:


> My company is finalizing the exclusive agency for this product in North America. www.XeVision.com The product is NOT made in Japan, the Japanese company AZ-Project is just a reseller.
> 
> 
> > Again, below I will respond in bold blue print next to the earlier post comments by Mark65.
> ...


----------



## XeVision (Jan 5, 2006)

For some reason when I posted the above, my "bold and blue" comments like an earlier post, did not come out that way. I have tried to edit it a few times which did not work. I will attempt again in the morning to edit the post so that it is easier to see which comments are mine. Sorry about the confusion.


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## Mark65 (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi XeVision, 

Thank you for long reply. I appreciate it.

I understood that you are enthusiastic to improove quality of this taiwan made 50W HID light. It nice to know about it.

But I sudjest that you'd better talk with AZ Project or Chief designer a lot more than now. Because I heard that they tested Japanese 50W HID bulb, Philips 35W HID bulb. But japanese bulb didn't fit to their ballast and Philips 35W HID bulb only had 1,600 hours life. I think they haven't tested GE bulb yet. And Chief designer said GE bulb is VERY good. You are right at that point. But still they concern short bulb life due to over drive by 50W ballast. Well, it's depends on how we feel 1,500 to 1,600 hours estimated bulb life is short or long enough.

Both of you and AZ Project want to improove quality of this light. I see all of them are on same boat. I really believe more information exchange is necessary.

Anyway, It's good to know you are so enthusiastic about HID light and focusing to improove quality and performance.

Thanks,


----------



## XeVision (Jan 5, 2006)

I was not able to edit the post (2 posts above) #224. So hopefully readers can compare it to post #216 to see which are my comments. Also the change to a response in each paragraph indicates my comments.


----------



## gregw (Jan 5, 2006)

For clarity, this is a repost of XeVision's reply in post #224 above, with what I think is the proper question/answer format. Dan, if there are any errors, please let me know and I will make the necessary corrections.



XeVision said:


> My company is finalizing the exclusive agency for this product in North America. www.XeVision.com The product is NOT made in Japan, the Japanese company AZ-Project is just a reseller.



Again, below I will respond in bold blue print next to the earlier post comments by Mark65.



> AZ Project is awaiting for your correction of these comments from XeVision.


 *Read the e-mail, I responded back to AZ-Project over 3 weeks ago as shown in my prior post.*



> AZ Project clearly told me that the designer of 50W HID lights hasn't accepted exclusive agency in the States. Isn't it true?


 *Yes, that is true and we have not yet decided we want to make the commitment either. We must commit to sell a very large annual quantity to have the exclusive. Read again what you quoted from me on your post. I implied we were in process, we have not yet finalized an agreement. We expect to decide if we will want to complete this exclusivity agreement very shortly.*



> AZ Project supported the developing this 50W HID light a lot. AZ Project is NOT just a reseller.


* I already stated in an earlier post that AZ project might have had input in the development of this product. That does not make you the manufacturer.*



> The chief designer of 50W HID light spent some time in Japan for designing HID light. And he is a close friend of owner of AZ Project.


 *This is quite probably true, I know he spent much time in Japan. I am very close friends with the HID system EE designer for this product. I also know the mechanical engineer who did all the physical design work on this project, he has also done much of our CAD work*.



> As far as I know, AZ Project and the designer were looking for best 50W HID bulb for long time. They found an "Asian" manufacturer as the best 50W HID bulb manufacturer. And still they believe so. If XeVision found GE bulb is better than original bulb and XeVision is a close friend of designer of 50W HID light, why don't you recommend GE bulb as standard bulb?


 *We are not close friends with the Manufacturer/Chief designer. We are friends with some of his sub designers. GE bulb is 1.5 to 2X as expensive as the stock "50 watt" bulb and we want to diferentiate our re-labeled product. As you should know, the project for a "true" 50 watt bulb was a failure. It draws way too much power durring start-up for this battery powered light. Philips is the only company which has been sucessful at making a 50 watt bulb which works well with off the shelf 50 watt ballasts made for a P32d base. This Philips bulb is no longer being made, the market was much too small.*



> AZ Project is rare company that supply 3000K, 4200k, 6000K, 8000K, and 10,000K bulb as options. Most selling model is 4,200K. Not 6,000K. They couldn't accept color shift due to over driven 35W bulb. Therefore they are using "Asian" bulb rather than Osram, Philips and GE. Also they concern shorter bulb life due to over drive.


 *AZ project makes HID kits for conversion from halogen reflectors for cars. This business is illegal in USA and has been prosecuted by the feds with importer penalties as high as $250,000.00 and recall etc. Most importers have disappeared except for Canada and on Ebay. In Taiwan the 6000K searchlight bulb model is most popular, I don't know what is most popular in Japan. If the Asian bulb is so good in quality, why do all Japanese car makers use ONLY bulbs made by Philips, Osram or GE (mostly all Philips) I warranty this GE bulb for 2000 hours in my aviation 50 watt applications. How many hours do you warranty the Asian "50 watt" bulb???? Warranty answers many questions!!!!*



> And if someone talk about "Asian" products are reliable or not. Please post more accurate and detailed information. For example, most of Apple computer and iPod are manufacturered in China and using many Asian, Korean parts. (The best DDR RAM is made in Korea.) My PowerMac G5 is made in China, but more reliable than $5,000 IBM Intellistation that is made in USA. Lumileds makes Luxeon in Malaysia. Mercedes C class is made in South Africa. Mazda (Owned by Ford) is manufacturing cars from various countrie's parts, but German parts which munufactured in old east Gernamy is less reliable than Korean or Taiwan parts. Korean cars are more relaible than some Japanese cars or GM's cars. Some Chinese parts are less reliable than other Asian parts, but some are better and made by finest craftmanship. Therefore no one can say Hungarian bulb is simply better than Korean or Taiwanise bulb. We should test many bulbs in same condition more than thousands of hours to proof that.


 *Say what you like but quality control on Asian HID bulbs has been poor, Color maintenance, life, etc. Even the colors between bulbs of the same temperature don't match. They must be hand matched in operation, this is a QC problem in the fill (brew). They use standard tungsten electrode material not Thoriated Tungsten like Philips Osram and GE use. Here is the proof of quality that is WARRANTY. Asian bulbs have very short warranty or mostly none at all. I did not say that all Asian products are of poor quality, I did say Asian HID bulbs have been of poor quality. Maybe that will change in the future but for now, I have not found any Asian HID bulbs to be suitable for my products even at 1/2 the price. Believe me I am motivated to cut costs, the GE costs 20% more than Philips or Osram, Why would I use the most expensive D2S bulb on the market unless there were benefits. A cheaper bulb would leave me more profits. Also read my post about the fill chemicals (brew) a few posts back. I rest my case and will not respond to this line of comments on the open forums any more. You can e-mail me or send me a private message. I tried to handle this properly in private by e-mail as can be seen in this and the last post. You left me no choice but to do this publicly. I will NOT do this again.*


----------



## XeVision (Jan 5, 2006)

Yes, that is correct. I don't know why the system is locking up when I try to edit??? gregw, thanks for the help with this technical posting difficulty. I have edited some of my other posts but for some reason not this one. It was done as a quick reply, does that make a difference? I plan to start the group buy either tomorrow but no later than Monday evening (next week).


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## XeVision (Jan 5, 2006)

> Hi XeVision, Thank you for long reply. I appreciate it.
> 
> I understood that you are enthusiastic to improove quality of this taiwan made 50W HID light. It nice to know about it.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the positive response. I believe that (Manufacturer/design team, Az-Project and XeVision), can benefit from working together. The customers will benefit from an improved product.

Dan


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## cue003 (Jan 5, 2006)

XeVision, did you ever get the battery cost for the CPF special pricing?

Curtisb


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## XeVision (Jan 5, 2006)

> XeVision, did you ever get the battery cost for the CPF special pricing?



Our extra Li-Ion battery pack will be $125.00 Our pack is made up of 12 cells total.


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## gregw (Jan 5, 2006)

XeVision said:


> Our extra Li-Ion battery pack will be $125.00 Our pack is made up of 12 cells total.



Just curious, but is that 12x 18650 cells configured as 4x series (14.8v) and 3x parallel? Is there a protection circuit built into the pack or does it depend on the circuit built into the flashlight for protection?


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## cue003 (Jan 5, 2006)

So I believe now we have final information for all componets as far as pricing is concerned, right?

XeRay 50W HID (90 min runtime) -- $570 comes with locking carry case, shoulder strap, AC charge adapter,DC charge adapter

Optional 35W Ballast (150 min runtime)-- $120

Replacement/extra bulb -- $85

Replacement/extra battery -- $125

Shipping cost vary depending on destination.

Curtis


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## Mark65 (Jan 5, 2006)

I understand everyone concern about "Asian Bulb". I know some Chinese bulb that has VERY short life. But regarding "Asian bulb" of AZ Project, the bulb has longer life, stability than Japanese real 50W bulb. Also, they got that "Asian bulb" has longer life than over driven Philips 35W bulb. That "Asian bulb" had more than 2,000 hours life, and Philips had 1,600 hours. "2,000 hours bulb life" is requirements on Japanese automotive standard.

I think bulb life is a part of quality. But at least that "Asian bulb" isn't bad at all. I hope AZ Project will post comments and details about this "Asian bulb".


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## XeVision (Jan 6, 2006)

gregw said:


> Just curious, but is that 12x 18650 cells configured as 4x series (14.8v) and 3x parallel? Is there a protection circuit built into the pack or does it depend on the circuit built into the flashlight for protection?


 
Yes, it is 12 X 18650 cells 4 in series, 3 in parallel. The circuit is in the flashlight, not the pack.


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## XeVision (Jan 6, 2006)

cue003 said:


> So I believe now we have final information for all componets as far as pricing is concerned, right?
> 
> Optional 35W Ballast (150 min runtime)-- $120
> 
> Replacement/extra battery -- $125


 
If you look back in the earlier post, you will find it is actually $150.00 for either 35 or 50 watt ballast with D2 (P32d) bulb socket.

$15.00 to $20.00 for domestic USA UPS ground shipping with full value insurance.


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## XeVision (Jan 6, 2006)

Mark65 said:


> I understand everyone concern about "Asian Bulb". I know some Chinese bulb that has VERY short life. But regarding "Asian bulb" of AZ Project, the bulb has longer life, stability than Japanese real 50W bulb. Also, they got that "Asian bulb" has longer life than over driven Philips 35W bulb. That "Asian bulb" had more than 2,000 hours life, and Philips had 1,600 hours. "2,000 hours bulb life" is requirements on Japanese automotive standard.


 
What is the warranty for bulb life? In our aviation applications, GE bulb at 50 watts has a 2000 hr warranty, 3000 hrs at 35 watts.


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## markdi (Jan 6, 2006)

a 50 watt hid should have a 50 watt bulb.

get real and use a phillips dl50 in your 50 watt light.

xevision - you say ge is best to overdrive - possibly true - but - 

http://www.nuconverter.de/spectraldatapage.html

quote

Comparisson of a DL50 with a overpowered D2S from GE: The GE bulb has less blue spectral intensive lines than the DL50. The typical xenon look of the GE is lost and there's less light output as well. As a conclusion a 50W Xenon system requires a 50W bulb. 

unquote


right from the horses mouth


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## XeVision (Jan 6, 2006)

markdi said:


> Comparison of a DL50 with a overpowered D2S from GE: The GE bulb has less blue spectral intensive lines than the DL50. The typical xenon look of the GE is lost and there's less light output as well. As a conclusion a 50W Xenon system requires a 50W bulb. right from the horses mouth


 
I could make a joke about "the horse..." but I will restrain myself. 
If anyone wants the "DL-50" bulb we can offer that too. Just put down an extra $75 and we can offer it instead of the GE. I doubt there will be many takers. I for one would prefer to have 2 GE bulbs for almost the same total price. We are also offering for $20 bucks to additionally include the stock Asian "50 watt" 6,000K bulb the light comes with. See our new post in Buy and Sell, Group Buys.

Your suggestion is very interesting because Philips MPXL DL-50 has not been manufactured in a few years. Even many of Nucon's/Xenlight's 50 watt customers use std D2S. I know this because some are buying ballasts and bulbs from me now. With the naked eye (the only ones we have) the outputs are identical. In fact in our measurements, the std GE D2S bulb makes a slightly tighter beam pattern. 

It is my understanding, I even asked him once, Mark at AE light also recommends the GE for 50 watt operation.


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## pcmike (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Doing a little late night/early morning browsing and man this post made me really laugh!! :lolsign:  



Trashman said:


> Yeah, your right, a passaround would be much cheaper.



That was in response to this:


dbedit said:


> For $505 I take the girl but only if there not a GB


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## XeVision (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: New Japanese 50W HID*

Group buy is now ON for the XeVision "XeRay" 50 or 35 watt Searchlight. Look in the Buy/Sell/Trade sections of the forums and then "Group Buys and Passarounds" This GB will run for 10 to 16 days depending on interest levels around the 16th we will decide if we want to extend it to the 23rd of Jan.

We have already recieved orders for 5 units in the last 24 hours.


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## Wasabi (Jan 7, 2006)

XeVision said:


> What is the warranty for bulb life. Our GE bulb at 50 watts has a 2000 hr warranty, 3000 hrs at 35 watts.


 
I am curious about that comment. It seems GE gives warranty on hour base, not year base.

None of HID bulb manufacturere give warranty in "hour" base in Japan.
Hitachi-GE, Philipps and Osram's representative give "One year" warranty.
They told me it's impossible to count at hour base. Because all cars and lights do not have hour counter. Therere their warranty is based on year.

Do USA manufacturers give warranty on hour base? If so, it's double standard. I have to ask bulb manufacturer about that point.


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## markdi (Jan 7, 2006)

xevision - or any other company can have their own warranty structured any way they want - on any product or service they provide.


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## Mark65 (Jan 7, 2006)

markdi said:


> xevision - or any other company can have their own warranty structured any way they want - on any product or service they provide.


I understand it. But what does 2,000hours mean? 2,000/24=83.33 days warranty? Or, anyone can say "I only use this light less than 10 hours a year. So, please change this boroken bulb free." in year 2206? 

XeVision's 2,000hour warranty can be used as "free bulb replacement anytime forever". I respect XeVision if XeVision provide such a warranty on bulb.


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## markdi (Jan 7, 2006)

I see what you are saying.

I modded my vector to 35 watt hid quite a while ago - half a year ago or so - I do not remember exactly when I modded it.

I bet it has less than 15 hours of runtime on it.

If grandpa never discovered it it would have had a lot less time put on it.


so for the average hid superlight user - 2000 hours should be a lifetime.


use your new Taiwanese OEM 50W HID 1 hour a night - every night - 365 nights a year and it would be over 5 years for the bulb warranty to expire.

why am I awake and posting on cpf at 3:30 am ?


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## gregw (Jan 8, 2006)

Just a reminder for all of you, especially those outside the US, that besides XeVision, you can also order the same 50W HID, but with a different HID bulb and branded by AZ Project, from Wasabi. The cost is JPY$55,000 (approx. US$480) + shipping if using Cash Paypal, or JPY$57,500 (approx. US$502) + shipping if using Credit Card Paypal. This is significantly lower than XeVision's Groupbuy price of US$570, and if you are outside the US, the shipping cost difference between drop shipping the XeVision from Taiwan or shipping the AZ Project from Japan shouldn't be significant. 

Additional info for Chiharu (CPF Name: Wasabi) as follows:
===========================
Pro Light Japan <http://www.pro-light.jp/>
Chiharu INUKAI
6-10-45-210, Akasaka
Minato-ku, Tokyo 107-0052
JAPAN
E-mail : < info (at) pro-light.jp >
E-mail : < inukais (at) mac.com >
Paypal : < inukais (at) mac.com >
Phone : +81(0)3-3585-5750
===========================

I would suggest that you email Chiharu as he doesn't seem to frequent CPF that often.


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## markdi (Jan 8, 2006)

do you get a better bulb with wasabi ?

a ge bulb is a lot nicer than a no name bulb - overdriven to 50 watts.


is it a d2s based bulb ?


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## XeVision (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision)*



gregw said:


> Just a reminder for all of you, especially those outside the US, that besides XeVision, you can also order the same 50W HID, but with a different HID bulb and branded by AZ Project, from Wasabi. The cost is JPY$55,000 (approx. US$480) + shipping if using Cash Paypal, or JPY$57,500 (approx. US$502) + shipping if using Credit Card Paypal. This is significantly lower than XeVision's Groupbuy price of US$570, and if you are outside the US, the shipping cost difference between drop shipping the XeVision from Taiwan or shipping the AZ Project from Japan shouldn't be significant.


 
Don't forget all, we are offering the light with 2 bulbs, 6000K the lights come with stock for only $20.00 extra. Plus the GE 4200K included as our standard.

The pricing comparison including this extra bulb which most are asking for because it is only $20.00 more makes it an orange to tangerine comparison, not apples to apples comparison. *Also the Manufacturer offers NO instructions manual in any language for operation, bulb replacement NOTHING in terms of paperwork with the light. We will have a manual in English covering all these issues when we ship. Even the lights dropshipped from Taiwan, we will email an operations, maintenance manual to the purchaser.*


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## XeVision (Jan 8, 2006)

markdi said:


> do you get a better bulb with wasabi ?
> 
> a ge bulb is a lot nicer than a no name bulb - overdriven to 50 watts.
> 
> ...


 
Yes it is a D2 based bulb (P32d)


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## Wasabi (Jan 8, 2006)

markdi said:


> do you get a better bulb with wasabi ?
> 
> a ge bulb is a lot nicer than a no name bulb - overdriven to 50 watts.
> 
> ...



The chief designer said GE bulb is very good bulb. But the chief designer believe even GE bulb has shorter life than "No name Asian bulb", if GE bulb over drive at 50W. Therefore he choose rhis "No name asian bulb" rather than Phillips bulb or Japanese bulb. Also, this "No name Asian bulb" is quite pricy. Not cheap and bad bulb. This "No name Asian bulb" is thechnically better than most of others in chief deigner's test. (Some haven't been tested because of color shift and other reasons.)


----------



## Wasabi (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision)*



XeVision said:


> Don't forget all, we are offering the light with 2 bulbs, 6000K the lights come with stock for only $20.00 extra. Plus the GE 4200K included as our standard.
> 
> The pricing comparison including this extra bulb which most are asking for because it is only $20.00 more makes it an orange to tangerine comparison, not apples to apples comparison. Also the Manufacturer offers NO instructions manual in any language for operation, bulb replacement NOTHING in terms of paperwork with the light. We will have a manual in English covering all these issues when we ship. Even the lights dropshipped from Taiwan, we will email an operations, maintenance manual to the purchaser.



It sound violating dealer agreement with manufacturer. As far as I understand, no one can provide 6,000K bulb at $20. May be XeVision has different agreement? Then I have to talk about this point, because I've heard all the distributors and dealers has same condition.

Also, stock bulb is 4,200K as far as I know. GE bulb has lower color temp than 4,200K because it's over drive at 50W, if stock bulb looks higher color temp. Or XeVison asked for 6,000K as stock and putting higher color temp GE bulb to get 4,200K as a result of over drive?


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## markdi (Jan 8, 2006)

phillips developed the micro power xenon light technology

some one show me proof that there is a better 35 watt bulb(driven at 35 watts)than a phillips mpxl dl35 or even the phillips 85122.

maybe some day I will get me a ge bulb to check out -
probably is a really good - superior bulb.


If I remember right phillips spent about 5 million dollars developing their mpxl products.

ge sylvainia - osram - etc 

have more money to spend on product and process development than most asain companys.

kinda like comparing a yugo to a mercedes

they will both get you there - most of the time.

I kan knot spell or think right now.

I wish I saved my favorites - links better.


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## XeVision (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision)*



Wasabi said:


> It sound violating dealer agreement with manufacturer. As far as I understand, no one can provide 6,000K bulb at $20. May be XeVision has different agreement? Then I have to talk about this point, because I've heard all the distributors and dealers has same condition.
> 
> Also, stock bulb is 4,200K as far as I know. GE bulb has lower color temp than 4,200K because it's over drive at 50W, if stock bulb looks higher color temp. Or XeVison asked for 6,000K as stock and putting higher color temp GE bulb to get 4,200K as a result of over drive?


 
You misunderstand, The searchlight comes with 6,000K bulb. This is an Asian bulb. The 6000K is most popular in Taiwan. We remove this bulb when the light arrives and replace it with the GE 4200K. We are including this original bulb for this group buy for only $20.00 extra. The manufacturer is not doing this, we are as a special offer.


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## gregw (Jan 9, 2006)

*Re: New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision)*



XeVision said:


> Don't forget all, we are offering the light with 2 bulbs, 6000K the lights come with stock for only $20.00 extra. Plus the GE 4200K included as our standard.
> 
> The pricing comparison including this extra bulb which most are asking for because it is only $20.00 more makes it an orange to tangerine comparison, not apples to apples comparison. Also the Manufacturer offers NO instructions manual in any language for operation, bulb replacement NOTHING in terms of paperwork with the light. We will have a manual in English covering all these issues when we ship. Even the lights dropshipped from Taiwan, we will email an operations, maintenance manual to the purchaser.



I was targeting the option of buying from AZ Project/Wasabi, more for those of you outside the US then within. Since the price difference between XeVision's Groupbuy price of $590 (with 2 bulbs) is more expensive by between $88 (paying by Credit Card Paypal to Wasabi) and $110 (paying by Cash Paypal to Wasabi), you can BUY an additional GE bulb if that is what you want, and STILL save money. According to XeVision's own pricelist, the GE 35W HID bulb is $85, and you could probably find it cheaper somewhere else..  

BTW, the AZ Project HID comes standard with the 4200K HID bulb, not the 6000K bulb that XeVision will be including for an additional $20..


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## Wasabi (Jan 9, 2006)

markdi said:


> phillips developed the micro power xenon light technology
> 
> some one show me proof that there is a better 35 watt bulb(driven at 35 watts)than a phillips mpxl dl35 or even the phillips 85122.
> 
> ...


The chief designer of "Taiwanese 50W HID light" said 35W Phillips HID bulb could not last as "Asian bulb" that designed for 50W. Please notice we are talking about 50W HID light, not 35W.

Also, man power cost, developing cost and manufacturing cost in Asia is cheaper than that in the States and Europe. Therefore Asain countries can get same result in smaller investment.

It's not as comparing Yugo and Mercedes. It's a kinda like comparing Toyota or Honda to a Merceds. Because this "Asian bulb" is better than japanese 50W HID bulb.

Actually, now even Mazda has better quality than Merceds C class that is made in South Africa. My father's Merecedes and my home doctor's Cadillac need more frequent garage check/repaire than my Mazda. I want to say brand images are different from reality in many cases.


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## XeVision (Jan 9, 2006)

*Re: New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision)*



gregw said:


> I was targeting the option of buying from AZ Project/Wasabi, more for those of you outside the US then within. Since the price difference between XeVision's Groupbuy price of $590 (with 2 bulbs) is more expensive by between $88 (paying by Credit Card Paypal to Wasabi) and $110 (paying by Cash Paypal to Wasabi), you can BUY an additional GE bulb if that is what you want, and STILL save money. According to XeVision's own pricelist, the GE 35W HID bulb is $85, and you could probably find it cheaper somewhere else..
> 
> BTW, the AZ Project HID comes standard with the 4200K HID bulb, not the 6000K bulb that XeVision will be including for an additional $20..


 
Why don't you ask them all of your general technical questions. If you want to buy from them get your technical support there as well. This is the ethical thing to do. recent example: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1220239&postcount=233

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1220333&postcount=236

You are just angry at me because I won't play the price war game to your satisfaction. You are trying to use both Xevision and AZ-project to manipulate the pricing. You are playing "mind" games.


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## Wasabi (Jan 9, 2006)

*Re: New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision)*



XeVision said:


> You misunderstand, The searchlight comes with 6,000K bulb. This is an Asian bulb. The 6000K is most popular in Taiwan. We remove this bulb when the light arrives and replace it with the GE 4200K. We are including this original bulb for this group buy for only $20.00 extra. The manufacturer is not doing this, we are as a special offer.



I think we'd better provide more accurate information to our customers in the world. Could I purchase your GE bulbs? May be two or three bulbs please. I can paypal you within a day. I will send one of them to third person to shoot the picture to show how GE bulb, 4,200K, 6,000K and 8,000K Asian bulbs looks at real field use. A friend of mine or other flashaholics are curious and willing to do test withoit any biased mind.

Also, I can send it to the chief designer to test it. 

Then, we can get out from this stupid posts. The manufacturer use GE bulb as standard if GE bulb is better. That is profit for all the customers.


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## XeVision (Jan 9, 2006)

*The Manufacturer offers NO instructions manual in any language for operation, bulb replacement NOTHING in terms of paperwork with the light. We will have a manual in English covering all these issues when we ship. Even the lights dropshipped from Taiwan, we will email an operations, maintenance manual to the purchaser.*


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## XeVision (Jan 9, 2006)

*Re: New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision)*



Wasabi said:


> Also, I can send it to the chief designer to test it.
> 
> Then, we can get out from this stupid posts. The manufacturer use GE bulb as standard if GE bulb is better. That is profit for all the customers.


 
The ballast design engineer has tested all of the bulbs!


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## XeVision (Jan 9, 2006)

After all the grief over this group buy, I doubt I'll do it again. Its not worth the trouble of all the bickering. We were the ones who provided a test sample to Mr Ted Bear. No one else offered or did follow through. Without our doing this, all of the discussion would be moot. I rest my case.


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## Wasabi (Jan 9, 2006)

*Re: New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision)*



XeVision said:


> The ballast design engineer has tested all of the bulbs!


Yes! and I heard "Asian bulb" is better from factory. But as you posted GE bulb is better even at 50W drive, so I am curious about bulb life and the performance. Therefore I would like to purchase GE bulbs for the test by flashaholic friends. 

I am not saying GE bulb is bad. I believe GE bulb is one of the best. Still the manufacturer choose Asian bulb, and said Asian 50W bulb has longer life. But I haven't seem the test results of real world test. So, I feel I must see the shooting test result and factory's test result by engineers. I do not always trust both factory's choice and dealer's choice. I am only interested in the fact and truth.

Could anyone purchase GE bulbs for me please? I'll paypal you ASAP at your cost. I only want to know the fact and truth.

PS. I was born in the States. (Champaing Urbana... Unfortunately, I had to back to japan when I was 10 month old.) But, I grew up in American products, food and cars as well as japanese/Asian products. So, I have much less biased mind regarding brand images and relaibality of products. Trust me!


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## Wasabi (Jan 9, 2006)

XeVision said:


> After all the grief over this group buy, I doubt I'll do it again. Its not worth the trouble of all the bickering. We were the ones who provided a test sample to Mr Ted Bear. No one else offered or did follow through. Without our doing this, all of the discussion would be moot. I rest my case.



I haven't been asked to send test sample to Mr. Ted Bear. I am on 10,000 miles away from the States. Therefore I'd like to provide GE bulb to some flashaholics who tested 50W HID light from AZ Project. It may take some time to test again. But still I want to see the result.

You can see the test result at here
340m : http://fuja.s22.xrea.com/hikaku/super/340/index.html
217m : http://fuja.s22.xrea.com/hikaku/super/217/index.html
79m : http://fuja.s22.xrea.com/hikaku/super/79/index.html

I do not think it's grief. Also, I have been asked many questions about bulbs from Asian customers and other country's customers. I have a duty to privide more information and better bulb on the light aw well as XeVison said.

I am a flashaholic more than just a dealer or a reseller. Therefore I am VERY curious to see the test result of GE bulb and Asian bulbs. We are just at starting point of sales of this light. 

I should clearly say that I do not want to make any conflict or confusion. I simply want to provide better 50W HID light to my customers.
Threfore, I'd like to have GE bulb that the chief engineer said very good bulb for another shooting test.

Could anyone help me to get thsi GE bulb please? I won't do the test by my self. I will ask other person to test some bulbs and up load to the web with Englisg text. Also, I am willing to privide free 4,200K bulb and 6,000K bulb to anyone who can make shooting test, and uploaded to the website.


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## gregw (Jan 9, 2006)

*Re: New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision)*



XeVision said:


> Why don't you ask them all of your general technical questions. If you want to buy from them get your technical support there as well. This is the ethical thing to do. recent example: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1220239&postcount=233
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1220333&postcount=236
> 
> You are just angry at me because I won't play the price war game to your satisfaction. You are trying to use both Xevision and AZ-project to manipulate the pricing. You are playing "mind" games.



Hmmm... Just because you answered my query regarding the configuration of the pack, makes me indebted and obligated to buy from you?  

For your information, this question was posted to an open forum, on a thread that *I STARTED*.. If Wasabi or AZ Project had seen the question, they could have given me the exact same information. I am NOT playing "mind" games as you say, but simply stating the facts... The standard retail price that AZ Project is charging for the exact same 50W HID flashlight, is between $88 to $110 cheaper than your special "Groupbuy price". So, what's so special about your Groupbuy discount that you are giving to CPFers?

Normally, if a Groupbuy is offered at CPF, you are almost always assured that you can't buy it cheaper anywhere else. Take the KumKang Polarian Groupbuy for example... I have not been able to find this being supplied cheaper than the Groupbuy price, anywhere else in the world.. You can buy it on CPF for just under $700 shipped or pay over $1000 for the same thing from the retailer, whether in the US or Korea..


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## pcmike (Jan 9, 2006)

*Re: New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision)*

Amen XeVision. Though I'm not interested in purchasing a "searchlight" I really appreciate your even signing up on this board and giving CPF members a discount at all. The sheer fact that you're in the USA, will stand behind your product 100% should be reason enough to spend the extra $80 on a $570+ light. If I ever know anyone who happens to be in the market for this sort of light (or HID technology in general) I'd definitely be sending them your way. I'm really sorry you're having to put up with this sort of treatment.

:goodjob: :thanks:



XeVision said:


> Why don't you ask them all of your general technical questions. If you want to buy from them get your technical support there as well. This is the ethical thing to do. recent example: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1220239&postcount=233
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1220333&postcount=236
> 
> You are just angry at me because I won't play the price war game to your satisfaction. You are trying to use both Xevision and AZ-project to manipulate the pricing. You are playing "mind" games.


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## cmacclel (Jan 9, 2006)

I also agree although I'd love a lower price the benifits are your buying this from

-A US based company
-A GE lamp (Most of the Asian copies I have read about all state they are of lower quality)
-A US Based warranty
-Option to purchase the original 6000k lamp for $20
-A knowledgable distributor of their product




Mac


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## XeVision (Jan 9, 2006)

*Re: New Taiwanese OEM 50W HID (XeVision)*



cmacclel said:


> I also agree although I'd love a lower price the benifits are your buying this from
> 
> -A US based company
> -A GE lamp (Most of the Asian copies I have read about all state they are of lower quality)
> ...


 
*Thanks for the moral support guys, I was getting fatigued by all this.*
 
*Don't forget we include a manual (service / operation) in English. None available from the manufacturer in any language. I admit its not "rocket science" but one should be included.*


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## PGP (Jan 9, 2006)

I also would pay the extra money just to have US warranty & knowlegable support on an item that is so expensive.

I hope to have the money together to purchase this light before the group buy ends. Thanks for the group buy!  

Thanks again XeVision for your effort in answering everyones questions. :goodjob: 

I think Wasabi is just being misinterpreted, I dont believe he is questioning your knowledge. He may have been given conflicting information from other people and is just trying to sort it out so he can offer his customers the best option. He also is a flashaholic like us and probably wants to know which is the best bulb to use in his light.

Patrick


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## Wasabi (Jan 9, 2006)

PGP said:


> I also would pay the extra money just to have US warranty & knowlegable support on an item that is so expensive.
> 
> I hope to have the money together to purchase this light before the group buy ends. Thanks for the group buy!
> 
> ...



Thank you for your support. Probably my English is not accurate enough. 

Yes, I only want to provide the best bulb on this 50W HID light. Therefore I want to purchase GE bulbs for testes. I was expecting positive answer from XeVision, because I thought my proposal is fair enough.


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## Wasabi (Jan 9, 2006)

Recently, I checked with the chief designer of 50W HID light, regarding standard "Asian bulb" via AZ Project.

1: The Taiwanese manufacturer do not supply standard/original bulb to Xeray Vision. The 50W HID light will be exported to Xeray Vision without original bulb.

2: Therefore the Taiwanese manufacturer will not provide factory's warranty to XeVision. The warranty will be provided by Xeray Vision. it will be good for US customers, but won't be benefit to Asian country's customers.

3: The "Asian bulb" that will provide as $20 option by XeVision may NOT be original bulb.

Therfore, the manufacturer can not be responsible for the performance of this $20 optional bulb. If you found $20 optional "Asian bulb" performe less or bad quality, please post and send this bulb to manufacturer or me. I will ask for matching test of the optional bulb with ballast by manufacturer.

I swear that I tell the truth. Nothing but the truth.

Also, I heard that the chief designer wants to test GE bulb as well. 

I will see chief designer on coming Friday in Tokyo. If anyone has any question, I will ask him. Thank you.


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## XeVision (Jan 9, 2006)

*XeVision responses in bold blue. *

Recently, I checked with the chief designer of 50W HID light, regarding standard "Asian bulb" via AZ Project.

1: The Taiwanese manufacturer do not supply standard/original bulb to Xeray Vision. The 50W HID light will be exported to Xeray Vision without original bulb. *I did receive a Searchlight with a 6,000K bulb from Taiwan factory.*

2: Therefore the Taiwanese manufacturer will not provide factory's warranty to XeVision. The warranty will be provided by Xeray Vision. it will be good for US customers, but won't be benefit to Asian country's customers. *Yes, the bulb warranty I provide is MY warranty from XeVision not GE or any other. *

3: The "Asian bulb" that will provide as $20 option by XeVision may NOT be original bulb. *It is the 6000K bulb as the light comes with from the Taiwan factory, I have no other plans for these bulbs so I may as well include them for an extra $20.00. Good for me, good for the customers.*

Therfore, the manufacturer can not be responsible for the performance of this $20 optional bulb. If you found $20 optional "Asian bulb" performe less or bad quality, please post and send this bulb to manufacturer or me. I will ask for matching test of the optional bulb with ballast by manufacturer. *I already said that I do not warranty the 6000K standard bulb. I only warranty the GE bulb.*

I swear that I tell the truth. Nothing but the truth. *No one here said you were lying.*

Also, I heard that the chief designer wants to test GE bulb as well. *I have an inventory of 120 of the GE 4200K bulbs. Maybe he can pick one up before he goes to Japan. One word of note. The old (1 year ago) GE bulbs have the return wire too far from burner so there is a conflict to install them in the searchlight. The newer version GE bulb does not have this problem.*

I will see chief designer on coming Friday in Tokyo. If anyone has any question, I will ask him. Thank you.


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## Wasabi (Jan 10, 2006)

XeVision said:


> *XeVision responses in bold blue. *
> 
> Recently, I checked with the chief designer of 50W HID light, regarding standard "Asian bulb" via AZ Project.
> 
> ...



As you said as "I was getting fatigued by all this.", I feel "I was getting fatigued by all this." as well.

I think there must be two sources of information as I understood/feel that you are also telling the truth, what you actually get or you believe, as I am telling what I believe/see/get/heard. Otherwise, we might not have any discussion like these. 

I hate time consuming discussion like this and I belive you do as well. So, I'll find out what is causing this confusion. 

Regarding GE bulb, I'll ask him to take one for me. I will send GE bulb to one of flashaholics in Japan. Also, I am willing to provide different color temp bulb to the States or any countries, if anyone wants to test it.


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## Wasabi (Jan 10, 2006)

XeVision said:


> *XeVision responses in bold blue. *
> 
> Recently, I checked with the chief designer of 50W HID light, regarding standard "Asian bulb" via AZ Project.
> 
> 1: The Taiwanese manufacturer do not supply standard/original bulb to Xeray Vision. The 50W HID light will be exported to Xeray Vision without original bulb. *I did receive a Searchlight with a 6,000K bulb from Taiwan factory.*


PS. I posted above, because I'd like make sure that GB customers get genuine "Asian bulb" selected by chief designer. The bulb is one of the best bulb available in Asia. It's not nice at all if GB customers and Xeray vision get something different from genuine "Asian bulb".

I think you might feel why I am so curious about bulb. Because I requested 6,000K bulb as my standard equipment instead of 4,200K bulb last year. The original standard bulb was 4,200K, unless I asked for 6,000K for Japanese customers who prefer higher color temp than most of Americans. So, I felt "!?!?" when you said 6,000K is standard bulb. But, it's understandable, if you talked with different person.


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## XeVision (Jan 10, 2006)

> Regarding GE bulb, I'll ask him to take one for me. I will send GE bulb to one of flashaholics in Japan. Also, I am willing to provide different color temp bulb to the States or any countries, if anyone wants to test it.


 
*Ask him to get one from "Tony".*

*Dan*


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## Wasabi (Jan 10, 2006)

XeVision said:


> *Ask him to get one from "Tony".*
> 
> *Dan*


Thanks! I'll ask him as you said.

Chiharu


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## PGP (Jan 10, 2006)

gregw said:


> Just a reminder for all of you, especially those outside the US, that besides XeVision, you can also order the same 50W HID, but with a different HID bulb and branded by AZ Project, from Wasabi. The cost is JPY$55,000 (approx. US$480) + shipping if using Cash Paypal, or JPY$57,500 (approx. US$502) + shipping if using Credit Card Paypal. This is significantly lower than XeVision's Groupbuy price of US$570, and if you are outside the US, the shipping cost difference between drop shipping the XeVision from Taiwan or shipping the AZ Project from Japan shouldn't be significant.



There is no benifit for us in the US to buy it from Wasabi, even if the price is $100 less. I would still like to thank Wasabi for offering the groupbuy & looking into the shipping. :goodjob: 

When I bought my 24W brightstar it cost me $80.00 to have it shipped. The shipping price from Wasabi was never finalized if I remeber correctly due to not knowing how to ship it with Lithium ion pack and all of its restrictions. I think the XeVision price diff. is fair due to them incuring shipping cost, providing warranty and also doing some of thier own R&D to help better the product.

Just my opinion!  
Patrick


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## markdi (Jan 10, 2006)

better bulb better warranty and instructions - in english

70 bucks well spent 

I think ge is a bigger company than phillips

I only have experience using phillips bulbs.

dl50 - dl35 - 85122

I have never seen smelled or touched a ge or a asain 
bulb.

I am sure xevision has smelled a lot more hid ballasts/bulbs than I have.

some day soon I should buy one to compare to my phillips bulbs.

xevision unless you return them to the manufacturer you should include the asain bulb for free.


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## gregw (Jan 10, 2006)

PGP said:


> There is no benifit for us in the US to buy it from Wasabi, even if the price is $100 less. I would still like to thank Wasabi for offering the groupbuy & looking into the shipping. :goodjob:
> 
> When I bought my 24W brightstar it cost me $80.00 to have it shipped. The shipping price from Wasabi was never finalized if I remeber correctly due to not knowing how to ship it with Lithium ion pack and all of its restrictions. I think the XeVision price diff. is fair due to them incuring shipping cost, providing warranty and also doing some of thier own R&D to help better the product.
> 
> ...



Which is why I was specifically targeting my reminder to CPF members OUTSIDE the US. There is no benefit for those of us outside the US to pay the additional $80+ charged by XeVision as there isn't any additional cost for him to drop ship it from Taiwan, and we do not need his assistance in clearing customs. Both AZ Project and XeVision offer the same 1 year warranty, so, again, there isn't any difference as to the level of support, just where you send it if you need warranty service.

As to the whole argument about which is the "better" bulb, we'll just have to wait and see what the final verdict is, after Wasabi has sent it for comparison by an objective 3rd party..


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## cmacclel (Jan 10, 2006)

gregw said:


> As to the whole argument about which is the "better" bulb, we'll just have to wait and see what the final verdict is, after Wasabi has sent it for comparison by an objective 3rd party..




What's he going to do run both Lamps and see how long they last??? That would take a Long Long time like 4 months by then the Group Buy will be over 


Mac


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## XeVision (Jan 10, 2006)

markdi said:


> better bulb better warranty and instructions - in english
> 
> 70 bucks well spent
> 
> xevision unless you return them to the manufacturer you should include the asain bulb for free.


 
I pay for them so I may as well get some of the GE bulb swap cost back out of them. $20.00 it stays.


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## gregw (Jan 10, 2006)

cmacclel said:


> What's he going to do run both Lamps and see how long they last??? That would take a Long Long time like 4 months by then the Group Buy will be over
> 
> Mac



Hmmm... I doubt very much he will do a life-time test run on the bulbs, but probably, just to show the difference in the lumen output. Besides, both bulbs come with a 1 year warranty, so I don't think that will be too much of an issue.


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## Mark65 (Jan 11, 2006)

I'd like to see how Asian 50W HID bulb performes.


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## Wasabi (Jan 11, 2006)

I had good talk with Dan this morning(in Japan =evening in the States). We understood that we are both enthusiastic about light, and focused into different market. Both of us are on the same boat. I felt I should recommend him or Xeray Vision as a distributor of "Taiwanese 50W HID light" in North America. 

And....

Congratulation Xe Vision! You've gotten Distribution right or Sales representation right in USA and Canada, as far as I heard. Now XeVision is official distributor of "Taiwanese 50W HID light" in the States and Canada. (Sorry I do not know corrrect words. I want to say XeVision is now officila distributor in North America.)

I got right to sell this light in Asian market. But I'd like to confirm that ANY CPFers in ANY COUNTRIES can attend/join/buy at GB managed by Xeray Vision. Even japanese CPFers can get XeVision version 50W HID light from him at GB.


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## XeVision (Jan 11, 2006)

Wasabi said:


> I had good talk with Dan this morning(in Japan =evening in the States). We understood that we are both enthusiastic about light, and focused into different market. Both of us are on the same boat. I felt I should recommend him or Xeray Vision as a distributor of "Taiwanese 50W HID light" in North America.
> 
> I got right to sell this light in Asian market. But I'd like to confirm that ANY CPFers in ANY COUNTRIES can attend/join/buy at GB managed by Xeray Vision. Even japanese CPFers can get XeVision version 50W HID light from him at GB.


 
Wasabi, you are most gracious in your post. Thank you!! I VERY much enjoyed our 2 phone conversations. Thankyou, for making the GREAT effort to open the lines of communication between us all. We can now ALL move forward as a team to market this product around the world. 

Your offer for the group buy is a very nice gesture, you are a true gentleman and handled our conversation in the most professional way. I would prefer that Asian customers buy from you. Unless you advise me otherwise, I will redirect any purchasers to you even after the GB is over. As far as I am concerned now, I will not sell into Asia or Japan AT ALL. I will send any interest in those areas to you. We should discuss Australia and New Zealand. What are your and AZ project's thoughts in that market area. I already have some contacts to possibly market there. Anyone in OZ or Kiwiland listening, and with serious marketing capability? Wasabi, please e-mail me regarding these questions. Thank you again for your efforts, I am indebted to you for being the peacemaker!!!


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## cue003 (Jan 14, 2006)

XeVision said:


> Yes, it is 12 X 18650 cells 4 in series, 3 in parallel. The circuit is in the flashlight, not the pack.



Are you using the LG 2400 mah or the new LG 2600mah cells in the battery pack?

Thanks

Curtis


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## XeVision (Jan 14, 2006)

cue003 said:


> Are you using the LG 2400 mah or the new LG 2600mah cells in the battery pack?


 
Not sure.


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