# Surefire Cree L1 owners with issues



## 270winchester (Jul 12, 2007)

hey folks:

I know of 4 people, including myself, who have received new Cree L1s with, um, regulation issues on high. I thought I was the only one initially but as peeps use their lights more one CPFer has PMed me and 2 more have said something in discussions about similar problems

if you also are unfortunate enough to receive a such light please drop a line here so we can have an idea of how big the problem is, if your light SEEMS to be fine, please, please run it on high for a minute or two to make sure you don't have one of these seemingly defective units. 

Nick


----------



## Dobbler (Jul 12, 2007)

Care to elaborate on these regulation issues? I don't have my L1 yet (FedEx lost it) but will have one soon...


----------



## 270winchester (Jul 12, 2007)

Basically the L1 I had would drop out of regulation after being turned onto high for about 30 seconds. Some would flicker. You won't notice it if you are just pressing the tailcap for short periods of time but if you use the light for a minute or so (mine at least) it would drop to a lower brightness.


----------



## JNewell (Jul 12, 2007)

After a FedEx-induced delay, mine showed up today from Mike (thanks!). Put a new battery in it and have had it on for over an hour on high now, but no signs of a flakey regulator.

It is running pretty warm, however, after an hour on high. 

One thing - compared to the pyrex window on the original L1, the optic seems very cloudy.


----------



## Martini (Jul 12, 2007)

JNewell said:


> One thing - compared to the pyrex window on the original L1, the optic seems very cloudy.


The new lens is slightly frosted, presumably to clean up the beam a bit. The beam is awfully nice, I'm led to understand.


----------



## bluesaber (Jul 14, 2007)

I have the issue also.

10 to 15 seconds on high and the light starts flickering like a strobe.

I've e-mailed surefire...


----------



## jsw4178 (Jul 15, 2007)

Wow, that sucks mine seems to be working fine.


----------



## half-watt (Jul 15, 2007)

I mentioned the problems some on CPF were having with their SF L1 Crees to Greg over at BrightGuy.com.

He actually offered to perform a several minute test of an L1 Cree before filling my order for one. Is that not going above and beyond the call of duty to make sure that a customer is satisfied?!!!

I'd bet he'd do the same for others as well. I'd be surprised if he didn't.


----------



## jsw4178 (Jul 15, 2007)

I would say that is exceptional customer service for sure!


----------



## StinkyButler (Jul 15, 2007)

That is very good customer service. 

Has anyone heard from Surefire on exactly what is causing this issue? Is it possible that lights that are not showing this behavior now could begin to in the future?


----------



## JNewell (Jul 15, 2007)

I have run two 123 primaries to sub-moon mode on "high" without issues, so I believe my light at least is dependable. The head does become rather warm when run continuously for an extended period on high.


----------



## o0o (Jul 16, 2007)

I tested for 2 minutes, and mine seems to work fine on high. How much more testing should one do to assure function?


----------



## 276 (Jul 16, 2007)

half-watt said:


> I mentioned the problems some on CPF were having with their SF L1 Crees to Greg over at BrightGuy.com.
> 
> He actually offered to perform a several minute test of an L1 Cree before filling my order for one. Is that not going above and beyond the call of duty to make sure that a customer is satisfied?!!!
> 
> I'd bet he'd do the same for others as well. I'd be surprised if he didn't.



did u call chris at brightguy when he said he would test it first or email ??


----------



## 270winchester (Jul 17, 2007)

Got mine back from the factory today. took a grand total of 3 business days between they receiving it and I getting it back. it seems to be working fine. Color is good and the beam is great.

edit:

I spoke too soon.

the light is another dud:

I put in a fresh SF 123 cell, after 3:29, the light drops to half its brightness, and starts to strobe in a very unsightly fashion. The voltage of the battery went from 3.24 to 2.79 in that time.

I'm going to call SF tomorrow and seriously ask them about this problem.


----------



## half-watt (Jul 18, 2007)

276,

i've done business with BG for, i'm forgettin', 3+ (or is it 4+) yrs now.

i've always spoken with (on the tellie) or emailed Greg Atwell, or, more recently, received email from Tina. 

Don't know any Chris at BG (unless Greg also goes by Chris [middle name???]).

To your point, this time i emailed Greg and heard back from him.


----------



## half-watt (Jul 18, 2007)

270W,

if you don't mind an unsolicited suggestion (my apologies if this suggestion is unwanted):

1) get your money back from SF.

2) email Greg at BrightGuy.com and ask him to test yours first. Just mention that someone on CPF had asked him to do this before shipping it to him. He tested mine for over 5min before being satisfied that it would display the same 2-3min problem that others here on CPF were reporting.


----------



## sbebenelli (Jul 18, 2007)

270winchester said:


> Got mine back from the factory today. took a grand total of 3 business days between they receiving it and I getting it back. it seems to be working fine. Color is good and the beam is great.
> 
> edit:
> 
> ...



I just ran my L1 for 5 minutes on high. Worked fine, didn't get hot at all. I can imagine your frustration with getting a defective light and then getting another one as your replacement. Two weeks ago I received my new U2 and turned it on to check the beam out. After 20-30 seconds it shut off and never worked again. It is now at Surefire. Very disappointing to receive a new light and have a problem. I feel for you.


----------



## luminata (Jul 18, 2007)

anyone have a piece of something rattling around in the body of their L1?


----------



## sbebenelli (Jul 18, 2007)

luminata said:


> anyone have a piece of something rattling around in the body of their L1?



Mine is rattle free


----------



## StinkyButler (Jul 18, 2007)

sbebenelli said:


> Mine is rattle free


 
Mine is rattle-free as well. Very solid AND it passed the "7-straight-minutes-on-high-without-flickering-or-dimming" test. Hopefully it lasts.


----------



## Hans (Jul 18, 2007)

half-watt said:


> if you don't mind an unsolicited suggestion (my apologies if this suggestion is unwanted):
> 
> 1) get your money back from SF.
> 
> 2) email Greg at BrightGuy.com and ask him to test yours first.



3) Wait a few weeks (or months) until Surefire sorted out this problem once and for all. It sound pretty much like they have a serious problem either with the design or the manufacture of the boards for the L1.

Not need to do betatesting for Surefire ... 

Hans


----------



## elgarak (Jul 18, 2007)

Hans said:


> 3) Wait a few weeks (or months) until Surefire sorted out this problem once and for all. It sound pretty much like they have a serious problem either with the design or the manufacture of the boards for the L1.
> 
> Not need to do betatesting for Surefire ...
> 
> Hans


How do you know it's a *serious* problem when you do not know how many lights are affected, and how many are already in circulation?


----------



## shadowbuds (Jul 18, 2007)

Ugh, the only thing keeping me from purchasing a L1 is this new issue. I think this is a great informational thread and should be kept bumped if possible.​


----------



## luminata (Jul 18, 2007)

I am debating what to do now. I really dont want to send the whole light back because they will send me a new one and I like the head on this one its really brite and perfect beam . it works fine its just something in the sealed section of the body loose or something, it does sound metallic and I worry it will short soemthing sooner or later what else could be in there other than the battery contact on back,the board and the head contacct on the front ?. Also I have read others L1s dont get hot on high. Mine gets pretty darn warm on high (Itested for over 5mins to rule out the other problem going on) which I thought was a good thing but now I am wondering.....


----------



## elgarak (Jul 18, 2007)

shadowbuds said:


> Ugh, the only thing keeping me from purchasing a L1 is this new issue. I think this is a great informational thread and should be kept bumped if possible.​


Why? There are only very few reports. Most buyers, included me, have absolutely no problems at all. It's an awesome light. And most dealers and Surefire will take care of problems. Hey, some dealers even offer to test the lights before shipping.

No need to get paranoid of getting a bad light, as I see it.


----------



## elgarak (Jul 18, 2007)

luminata said:


> I am debating what to do now. I really dont want to send the whole light back because they will send me a new one and I like the head on this one its really brite and perfect beam . it works fine its just something in the sealed section of the body loose or something, it does sound metallic and I worry it will short soemthing sooner or later what else could be in there other than the battery contact on back,the board and the head contacct on the front ?. Also I have read others L1s dont get hot on high. Mine gets pretty darn warm on high (Itested for over 5mins to rule out the other problem going on) which I thought was a good thing but now I am wondering.....


Contact your dealer, or Surefire. The light should not rattle; mine doesn't, nor does any other SF I have.

As I see the reports around here, it's very unlikely to get a bad beam -- I think that most reports of bad beams around here come from _very_ picky observers during excessive white wall hunting... Flashaholics are not necessarily average customers


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 18, 2007)

You can get a refund from Surefire if you return the light within 30 days. If you got a bad one you could return it and buy another one. That could prevent a potentially long wait with the Surefire service department.


----------



## maverick (Jul 19, 2007)

I just got my L1 Cree yesterday and I must agree that it is a very nice light. I turned the light on high for 10 mins to see if it had the flickerring issue. After 10 mins it was fine, but I decided to keep it on for a while longer just to make sure. At about the 20 min mark, the light started flickering about every 1.5 secs, but it didn't see to dim. Light was quite warm, but by no means hot, when this started happenning. I then let the light cool and repeated the test with a fresh SF123 cell, same problem at about 20 mins. I thought that it shouldn't be the light dropping out of regulation since the quoted runtime is over 1 hour, so I started to suspect a heat problem. I decided to perform another test to eliminate this possibility. After the light started to flicker on the 2nd cell (20 mins again), I immediately replaced it with a 3rd fresh cell and turned it back on, without letting the light cool off this time. This time, the light started to flicker immediately even with the fresh cell installed (not after 20 mins). 

So what do you guys think? Do I have a faulty light or is it just a heat problem? And out of interest, how many people have kept their light on high output continuosly for at least close to the quoted runtime, say, over an hour? 

Too further try to eliminate the heat possibility, I think I'll load a new cell and turn the light on and then leave it in my kitchen sink under water for cooling. This way, it should be adequately cooled and any subsequent problems shouldn't be related to heat. I'll report back after I try this.


----------



## JNewell (Jul 19, 2007)

maverick said:


> So what do you guys think? Do I have a faulty light or is it just a heat problem? And out of interest, how many people have kept their light on high output continuosly for at least close to the quoted runtime, say, over an hour?


 
What brand of cells are you using? Remember that the A2, for example, has problems with some non-SF brand cells.


----------



## Paladin (Jul 19, 2007)

The paperwork enclosed with my E2L makes direct reference to the heating up during prolonged operation.

Caution: The L1 is a high-output lighting device and should not be left on unattended. External surface temperature will rise during prolonged operation. This is a normal operating phenomenon.

It says the same thing about the E1L and E2L, but FWIW my E2L runs cool during extended operation.

Paladin


----------



## matrixshaman (Jul 19, 2007)

I like my Surefires but dang - this does not seem right. After waiting as long as we have for a SF Cree light you would think at their price and US made quality control there should be no more than 1 bad light in maybe 1000. There have been 1765 views of this thread. Out of that I'm going to make a big assumption that not more than 5% of those people have an L1 in hand and that is probably way high. Assuming that likely overinflated estimate that would mean 88 people here have an L1. Not counting the U2 mentioned that's 5 L1's that have issues. I'm actually guessing that most people who read this and have an L1 would jump in and say one way or another whether they have a good one or not. My conclusion from this is that at best SF is having a 5.7% failure rate and at worst 45% failure rate based on the reports here so far (this does not count the bad U2). Either way that is very disappointing from a company like Surefire. I really like SF lights but I think they seriously need to do some better quality control.


----------



## 270winchester (Jul 19, 2007)

the actualy scope of the problem will never be known, since a lot of us won't run the light for the duration of the light and stare at it. If I were just to shine the light at a wall for a few minutes I would have thought the second one was all fine and dandy, but it wasn't and the problem can show up 20 seconds, 3 minutes, and now sound like even 20 minutes is possible. 


I am give SF the benefit of the doubt that this is just what happens with new products and will abate the situation soon.


----------



## luminata (Jul 19, 2007)

Well, I decided to call Surefire. They say send it back. That's great. Do you cover the expense of shipping insured ? oh no. the inconvenience and expense is yours . Wow thats really great for a $140 dollar light I get to spend another 15 bucks to ship it to the manufacturer who will have it for 2 weeks and probably send me another one with some other defect . I can tell you right now this is the last Surefire I will EVER buy. Every time I read this thread it seems the light has to be run for longer and longer periods to check for this drop out problem. and I have crap rattling around in there to boot. The anodizing and machining are great on these lights but the ball is being dropped big time on the innards. I dont call this WORLD CLASS CUSTOMER SERVICE. World class customer service is covering the cost of shipping to and from the manufacturer. :shakehead I dont have the time or patience for crap like this .

Here is another update for any other poor souls who lose the L1 lotto. Expected turnaround time for repairs as quoted 3-4 WEEKS and UPS GROUND return shipping which is average of another 5 to 7 business days. Wow that is some World class service. So I should have it back by the fall season.


----------



## Penguin (Jul 19, 2007)

I just ordered an L1, but this thread makes me nervous... Mavrick, try running the L1 while cooling it (iced water?) Nick, try cooling yours too, we might just need to be holding onto the light while it's running?


----------



## WildChild (Jul 19, 2007)

Penguin said:


> I just ordered an L1, but this thread makes me nervous... Mavrick, try running the L1 while cooling it (iced water?) Nick, try cooling yours too, we might just need to be holding onto the light while it's running?



You shouldn't have to do that with a new light of this price!


----------



## T4R06 (Jul 19, 2007)

yeah they have world class customer service!
its been 3months now. just a E2D tailcap still nothing! 

crap, crap, crap BS!!!!


----------



## enLIGHTenment (Jul 19, 2007)

I wonder if SF could be having cash flow problems. QC is often one of the first things to go when firms begin to run short of money. The other thing that tends to happen when firms run short of money are attempts to increase extraction rates from customers, for instance by reducing interoperability between products and third party accessories.


----------



## StinkyButler (Jul 19, 2007)

enLIGHTenment said:


> I wonder if SF could be having cash flow problems.


 
That's quite a huge chunk of speculation there...


----------



## 270winchester (Jul 19, 2007)

T4R06 said:


> yeah they have world class customer service!
> its been 3months now. just a E2D tailcap still nothing!
> 
> crap, crap, crap BS!!!!



call them with the RMA number. just to be fair my replacement did come back very quickly(discounting the inner workings of it).


----------



## JNewell (Jul 19, 2007)

If the light is working right, it doesn't need supplemental cooling. I ran two 123A cells flat on high in my new L1. The head definitely becomes hot. My light, at least, displayed no problems.


----------



## enLIGHTenment (Jul 19, 2007)

StinkyButler said:


> That's quite a huge chunk of speculation there...



No, it's a question.


----------



## maverick (Jul 19, 2007)

JNewell said:


> If the light is working right, it doesn't need supplemental cooling. I ran two 123A cells flat on high in my new L1. The head definitely becomes hot. My light, at least, displayed no problems.



Can you tell me how long until it starts dropping out of regulation on high mode? And were you using Surefire cells or another brand?


----------



## StinkyButler (Jul 19, 2007)

enLIGHTenment said:


> No, it's a question.


 
My mistake.


----------



## Light_guy (Jul 19, 2007)

Unfortunately I have an L1 with the same glitch, after a couple minutes it starts flickering. :sigh: I do love the output though, it's impressive in both lo & hi, lo mode will cover the majority of needs and let me get a longer runtime.


----------



## knightrider (Jul 19, 2007)

Interesting heating problems. Surefire has some interesting stuff going on with heat lately and TIR optics. I read about the Kromas getting very hot after a short period on high and that it is probably killing it's led prematurely. Heat seems to be a problem, wonder if they think most run their lights on high for 5 minutes or less?

I think I'll wait to get an L1 until the bugs are worked out. Really wanted to get one right away too.


----------



## 276 (Jul 19, 2007)

reading this is making me not want one now, i have a lot of lights with brighter output that are either around the same size or smaller that dont have that problem.


----------



## elgarak (Jul 19, 2007)

276 said:


> reading this is making me not want one now, i have a lot of lights with brighter output that are either around the same size or smaller that dont have that problem.




You do realize that the probability of getting a bad light is pretty slim?

I think that this thread sends a awfully wrong message. It overrates the problem. I'm not saying that we shouldn't discuss it, but it gives off the impression of being way more serious than it truly is.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 19, 2007)

If you are unlucky enough to get a bad one you could get a refund within the first 30 days, and get another one. The odds against getting two bad ones in a row have got to be very high. As long as you did not wait longer than 30 days you could get a refund on the second one if it turned out to have a problem. Today the LED Museum came out with a positive review of the L1.


----------



## luminata (Jul 19, 2007)

Well, I sent my L1 off Fedex Insured ($$$ Kaching ) to SF. I dont expect to see it for quite some time. I have owned many SF lights and every time I needed a part or something the wait was weeks and weeks. I also had 2 instances when I saw nothing for weeks and called them and they had not a clue , my order/requests had been lost misplaced forgotten etc. Surefires are what got me into flashlights but I got fed up with this crap before. it's been long enough I guess I forgot or something and in weakness bought the New L1 with some trepidation. And Sure enough they havn't changed a bit. Same Blase attitude on the phone, not one apology for the inconvenience . This to me is the classic "we have a huge gov't contract lethargic behaviour ". Take a number and get in line, NEXT!
I can say this, if I get the darn thing back and it has that drop off in output problem or the rattling piece of something is still there I am gonna hit the roof. Having to wait 4-5 weeks for service to me means 1 of a couple things,

1)it gets there and sits around on a shelf somewhere until someone decides to deal with it
2)they have such a backlog of bad lights being returned it is backed up 4 weeks 
either way is not good and far from World Class Customer Service
What exactly is World Class Customer Service?
Hmmm....well I would say world class customer service is Lighthound/The FenixStore/OptiqsHQ
If I had people sending back Brand new product defective out of the package I would be jumpin thru hoops . Not giving the impression that you have just walked into the Registry of Motorvehicles and pulled a ticket off the role .

I dont think this thread gives the wrong impression, I think it gives an accurate depiction of some seriuos problems with a company who doesnt hesitate to use lofty sales pitches . If I had seen this thread I would not have bought another Surfire and gone with the Novatac ( a new unproven light but a chance for a new company to prove itself)


----------



## elgarak (Jul 19, 2007)

Well, I can only speak for myself. In the two cases I needed service, they were helpful and friendly. 

The shipped me the replacement tailcap for my U2 for free, no questions asked, without me returning the defective one, and I had it in three days.

My leaky and discolored KL5 was replaced within ten workdays, which amounts just for the shipping to CA and back to me.

I'm not sure why you, luminata, have so much bad luck with them :shrug:.


----------



## asdalton (Jul 19, 2007)

270winchester said:


> I spoke too soon.
> 
> the light is another dud:



Ugh. I've never had a Surefire light fail, new or old--but based on other people's experiences I'm starting to think that they are more valuable used than new.

No trouble with my E2L Cree so far ...


----------



## enLIGHTenment (Jul 19, 2007)

elgarak said:


> I think that this thread sends a awfully wrong message. It overrates the problem.



Without knowing how many CPF people have Xlamp L1s, there's no way anyone can know if this thread is overstating or understating the extent of L1 QC problems.

Failure rates cannot be inferred, much less computed, without knowing overall sample size.


----------



## elgarak (Jul 19, 2007)

enLIGHTenment said:


> Without knowing how many CPF people have Xlamp L1s, there's no way anyone can know if this thread is overstating or understating the extent of L1 QC problems.
> 
> Failure rates cannot be inferred, much less computed, without knowing overall sample size.


True. The problem is that it's far more likely for unsatisfied people to speak up.

Especially with the picky folks here at CPF.

The many satisfied customers usually lean back and enjoy their light.


----------



## Barbarian (Jul 19, 2007)

I have recently received 2 new L1's (BTW...ordered from 2 different dealers) and have not experienced any of the trouble mentioned in this thread. I just ran one of the lights on high for 20+ minutes and all is well. The tint is different between the 2 lights (one has more of a green tint), but that is not surprising.


----------



## 270winchester (Jul 19, 2007)

elgarak said:


> True. The problem is that it's far more likely for unsatisfied people to speak up.
> 
> Especially with the picky folks here at CPF.
> 
> The many satisfied customers usually lean back and enjoy their light.



To whom are you addressing?


----------



## luminata (Jul 19, 2007)

He is addrssing the people in this thread with L1 probs. 

He is saying Shut up people with problems you are noisy and we who have L1s with no apparent problems would like to sit back and play with our lights in peace which is why they are reading and posting in this thread .

there is nothing worse than a picky CPF person who wants a $145.oo light that works. imagine the nerve...



The green tint on some of these is exactly what I worry about getting back. the one I sent was very white and when I begged them to keep my original head above anything else , just put a note in there, anything , I was told "uuhhh ,we dont do that"
Maybe just once you could bend those carved in stone rigid corporate rules just a wee little bit for a customer? would the world really stop turning? 

Actually I dont know why I am perceiving my interaction with Surefire so negatively. Probably the hundreds of dollars I have spent on them over the years its gotta be me . I still havnt learned to just shut up and take the new generation of Customer Service on a world class scale.


----------



## lightr07 (Jul 19, 2007)

I don't find this potentially worrying at all. When i buy a New L1 i do know that i might get a bad one but hey. We're just sitting here complaining about it. There doing the work so if your that worried simply return it and wait a few month's. 

And yes, I know i will get "But but but this cost me 130.00!!!!!" but you have to remember, Launching *anything* isn't entirely easy and problem free. With regards to SureFire CS, I've had nothing but good experience's with them. my E2D had a bad tail-cap and they sent me a new one in 2 days, No question's asked and no return of the old one needed. Once you get to the 5-6 return mark i got to with the MagLED's when they came out then i'll start to think there might be a problem, But 2 or 3 returns, Not yet.


----------



## JNewell (Jul 19, 2007)

Sanyos. I didn't monitor the process but I'd say in the 60-75 minute range.



maverick said:


> Can you tell me how long until it starts dropping out of regulation on high mode? And were you using Surefire cells or another brand?


----------



## JNewell (Jul 19, 2007)

As far as the panic posts go, I can't think of a company that's been more reliable than Surefire for customer *service.* I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of these unless I were planning to put it into immediate service in some mission-critical application, but let's face it...the L1 is not that kind of a light for most owners...


----------



## luminata (Jul 19, 2007)

Wow . I need to get into therapy or something soon. I just cant stop resisting the slip into apathy . You know when you go into a burger joint and order a sandwich and you take your sandwich and sit down and open it up and the meat is half off the bun, the cheese is in the other direction , there is ketchup and mustard oozing out the side all over the place and one pickle hangin on for dear life to some onion bits plastered all over the inside of the wrapper? I actually go back up and ask for another one. that's right, I am that jerk who doesnt just sit there and say to myself "boy, that burger maker must be having a fight with his girlfriend or somethings so I 'm just gonna sit here ,shut up and eat this mess ' cause he is the one making them burgers and I am just the pig sitting here eating the burger" . 
I think tomorrow when I go to work and I am putting together environmental sampling kits with bottles filled with Hydrochloric Acid which is used to preserve the soil/water samples , I might not end up tightening the caps down all the way . Hey, I am the kit maker and those field techs are just sitting there pulling sample bottles out by the caps....hopefully as the acid melts the skin off their fingers they will apathetically look at eachother and wonder if I had a bad day.

man I am ranting I really do need therapy


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 19, 2007)

luminata said:


> Wow . I need to get into therapy or something soon. I just cant stop resisting the slip into apathy . You know when you go into a burger joint and order a sandwich and you take your sandwich and sit down and open it up and the meat is half off the bun, the cheese is in the other direction , there is ketchup and mustard oozing out the side all over the place and one pickle hangin on for dear life to some onion bits plastered all over the inside of the wrapper? I actually go back up and ask for another one. that's right, I am that jerk who doesnt just sit there and say to myself "boy, that burger maker must be having a fight with his girlfriend or somethings so I 'm just gonna sit here ,shut up and eat this mess ' cause he is the one making them burgers and I am just the pig sitting here eating the burger" .
> I think tomorrow when I go to work and I am putting together environmental sampling kits with bottles filled with Hydrochloric Acid which is used to preserve the soil/water samples , I might not end up tightening the caps down all the way . Hey, I am the kit maker and those field techs are just sitting there pulling sample bottles out by the caps....hopefully as the acid melts the skin off their fingers they will apathetically look at eachother and wonder if I had a bad day.
> 
> man I am ranting I really do need therapy


Is that what kids mean when they say "You Got Served"?


----------



## senna94 (Jul 19, 2007)

On a lighter note, this thread is a week old and already has over 60 posts on it. I think I am going to have to wait a couple of months for this to really get sorted out before I get a new L1.


----------



## luminata (Jul 19, 2007)

This reminds me of once when I bought a .32 for EDC and was told by the shop owner "you need to put a minimum of 100-200 rounds thru that thing before you even think of carrying/relying on it for self defense" it cost about $300 bucks and I couldnt get 20 rounds thru it without a jam.
Then I got a Glock 9mm. Never had a jam. Not one. How do they do that ? amazing those Austrians....imagine making a product you can bet your life on right out of the box!!!!!!!!


And how is everyone getting things back in 2 days? I am on the east coast and SF does UPS Ground . thats 5-7 business days from CA. 

Tell you what, If I get my light back from Surefire,fixed and 100% by next Friday I will donate 5bucks to CPF. Yes I will be honest and admit if it shows up before next Friday. I sent it Overnite Fedex so they will have it tomorrow. I will eat my CPF hat if it gets here by then. Somehow I think it will stay on my big fat annoying head:wave: and I will be checking for UPS doortags in September

I must be dealing with another Surefire than everyone else


----------



## senna94 (Jul 19, 2007)

Good one luminata. That is exactly why I got my Sig 226. Anyway, I guess Surefire should state that you need to run 20 to 30 cells through your L1 before relying on it as an EDC!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Confederate (Jul 19, 2007)

bluesaber said:


> I have the issue also. 10 to 15 seconds on high and the light starts flickering like a strobe. I've e-mailed surefire...


Strange, but I've had the same problem with my P2D. After being on turbo for less than a minute it begins strobing. This may be an issue with many Fenix lights. I'd assumed the heat was kicking it into a lower mode.

It's interesting, but many of the Ultrafires at DX have only one mode: turbo, and yet they do fine. Sure they heat up, but they don't fail (at least with me). I've got some still in the box that I haven't had time to test. Reckon I'll have to now. 



> *Luminata*: Then I got a Glock 9mm. Never had a jam. Not one. How do they do that ? amazing those Austrians....imagine making a product you can bet your life on right out of the box!!!!!!!!


I can imagine such a product. They're called "revolvers."  



> *Luminata*: You know when you go into a burger joint and order a sandwich and you take your sandwich and sit down and open it up and the meat is half off the bun, the cheese is in the other direction, there is ketchup and mustard oozing out the side all over the place and one pickle hangin on for dear life to some onion bits plastered all over the inside of the wrapper? I actually go back up and ask for another one.


Yeah, the big difference with flashlights is that the service guy doesn't usually _spit_ in the flashlight! 


.


----------



## lightr07 (Jul 19, 2007)

luminata said:


> And how is everyone getting things back in 2 days? I am on the east coast and SF does UPS Ground . thats 5-7 business days from CA.



I get mine in 2 days but I'm in Scottsdale Arizona so I'm fairly close to them. Meaning that i get things from California, Oregon etc alot quicker than people farther away would


----------



## elgarak (Jul 19, 2007)

Just for the record, I was not referring to anyone in particular.

It's just my observation that whenever a problem is reported lately, a lot of people jump on and try to dismiss the company/dealer/whatever is related to the product having the problem.

It just buggers me to see people crying "No more xxxx for me", and declaring that "xxxx is going down", just because one of xxxx's products has a failure, and xxxx takes care of things as they always did. People jumping to conclusions that are not justified.

They're machines, people. They can fail. It's something that happens when a new, innovative product hits the market.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 19, 2007)

luminata said:


> Wow . I need to get into therapy or something soon. I just cant stop resisting the slip into apathy . You know when you go into a burger joint and order a sandwich and you take your sandwich and sit down and open it up and the meat is half off the bun, the cheese is in the other direction , there is ketchup and mustard oozing out the side all over the place and one pickle hangin on for dear life to some onion bits plastered all over the inside of the wrapper? I actually go back up and ask for another one. that's right, I am that jerk who doesnt just sit there and say to myself "boy, that burger maker must be having a fight with his girlfriend or somethings so I 'm just gonna sit here ,shut up and eat this mess ' cause he is the one making them burgers and I am just the pig sitting here eating the burger" .
> I think tomorrow when I go to work and I am putting together environmental sampling kits with bottles filled with Hydrochloric Acid which is used to preserve the soil/water samples , I might not end up tightening the caps down all the way . Hey, I am the kit maker and those field techs are just sitting there pulling sample bottles out by the caps....hopefully as the acid melts the skin off their fingers they will apathetically look at eachother and wonder if I had a bad day.
> 
> man I am ranting I really do need therapy


Oh my gosh! Go find a new hobby for your own good!


----------



## SureF1reFan (Jul 20, 2007)

I received my L1 in da mail today. It's perfect.
I'm bummed out for my co-flashlightolics that ended up with a defective unit, get with SF, they aways take care of their customers.

best of luck getting your repaired / NIB units.


----------



## Silversurfer (Jul 20, 2007)

I'm pretty sure I am one of the first four referred to in the first post. I'm trying to keep a record in real time.

Here are my observations, written down at the time.

Initial experience:

Just received my L1. Drops out of regulation after less than a minute.
It did this on three occasions with three different fresh batteries.

After it first did this using the enclosed Surefire battery, before inserting the next two batteries I tested them and they measured 100% on my ZTS Pulse Load Multi-Battery Tester. They were removed after the light went out of regulation and tested again. They each measured 40%-60%. The light is drawing way too much from the battery.

My reaction 1 day later AFTER dealing with world class customer service:

Sent my light back to SF with a RMA. What a royal PITA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

World class service? Give me a break!

If I go to nice restaurant in New York and the waiter comes out with a main course that cannot be eaten - not what I ordered, burnt, even worse - analagous to the light not working - I then expect service so fine as to make me willing to overlook the main course fiasco. Why? So I'll come back again. They'll pick up the drinks, deserts, etc. 

Here they make me pay for the return. Huh? 

I'm already paying up for their military spec quality.

I didn't receive what I paid for.

And then I have to pay to return it?

[20070719] Observation:

I'm still waiting for my L1...
Note to self: Patience is not its own reward.

[20070720] Spoke with customer service rep. She confirmed receiving L1 on 20070717. 
SF rep stated they only got it two days ago - they have not yet done anything.
Asked me to call again Monday 20070723.


----------



## maverick (Jul 20, 2007)

Some of you will have read my post earlier in this thread about my L1 flickering after 20mins on high output. Since I suspect overheating to be the problem, I ended up doing the "flashlight submerged in water" test. It confirms my original suspicions, the light stayed in regulation and without flicker for well over an hour. The test was done with the L1 submerged inside a water filled lunchbox. The cell used was a fresh Duracell 123A.


----------



## 270winchester (Jul 20, 2007)

maverick said:


> Some of you will have read my post earlier in this thread about my L1 flickering after 20mins on high output. Since I suspect overheating to be the problem, I ended up doing the "flashlight submerged in water" test. It confirms my original suspicions, the light stayed in regulation and without flicker for well over an hour. The test was done with the L1 submerged inside a water filled lunchbox. The cell used was a fresh Duracell 123A.



My light is on its way to SF so I have no way of knowing. Thanks for confirming what many of us were suspecting. 

it's plausible for the board to be with at least some bugs. though I do know that the 2nd L1 I received heated up FAST and should not be so with a light that draws no more than 500 mAh.


----------



## luminata (Jul 20, 2007)

you are absolutley right 270 ,The light should not be overheating. its not being overdriven 

and Milspec lights should not have problems like these. You dont release a product with overheating issues unless you are rushing and trying to beat other releases maybe? It's a Cree running well below max specs. ?

Here is an idea it's at least something, how about they throw in a SF T-shirt when they return your light to make up for the return shipping? Silly but at least its some kind of effort ? Naaaah thats not world class enough :duh2:


----------



## JNewell (Jul 20, 2007)

I am thinking Surefire can start a new ad campaign for the L1:

*Surefire L1: more than just a light, a lightning rod!*


:devil:


----------



## Quickbeam (Jul 20, 2007)

Luminata- I feel your pain - I just sent my brand new out of the box A2 back to Surefire - beam was badly out of focus and the three screws that held the LED ring in place were all stripped. One fell out when I opened the head! Unbelievable for a $200 light... Plus, as you say, I get to pay for shipping. Isn't that sweet....

Looks like I'll stick with my Milky SSC P4 modified old style L1, thankyouverymuch....


----------



## cslinger (Jul 20, 2007)

This is by no means an excuse for poor quality just an observation as to why it may be happening.

Do you think it has anything to do with the current military/leo orders being through the roof due to the war(s), homeland defense folks changing gear etc. 

It could be very well that there "civilian" offerings are getting the shaft as far as quality control in order to keep quality up for their main customers.

Just a thought on root cause, not an excuse.


----------



## elgarak (Jul 20, 2007)

To all the people who complain that they have to pay for shipping themselves: That is how Surefire has always handled repairs. That is how most manufacturers in the US handle claims.

Why should they do it differently now?

(Since the lights are new, I would definitely try to get a replacement from the dealer first -- NOT from Surefire.)


----------



## Quickbeam (Jul 20, 2007)

I think the point is that we already paid for shipping - when it was shipped to us. It should have been working properly at that point. Now we have to pay additional to get it working right. 

This is analogous to purchasing a product, then after you receive it, SURPRISE! you have to wait 2-4 weeks and pay extra (that you didn't count on) before it functions.

The company sent a defective product unit. It should have never made it out the factory door and it should be fully their responsibility to make it right, regardless of the company. 

Just because it has always been done this way (consumer pays for shipping) doesn't mean it's right. It's not like we're asking for something for free - we're just asking for what we paid for at the price we paid for it. No more, no less.


----------



## bigfoot (Jul 20, 2007)

Hopefully Surefire gets whatever issues it needs to ironed out. Considering how small a segment of the population CPF members are, it's interesting that many have received bad L1's. At the same time, this could just be because CPF members also rush out and buy lights when they first hit the market.

As far as the shipping, I can't think of many companies (can count them on one hand, if that) who pay for initial shipping TO their facilities for repair.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 20, 2007)

I hate to say it, but with these issues, it is probably better to buy Surefires from a local brick and mortar store now.
Surefire has been restricting the Internet retailers
Spotty quality control lately
Paying for shipping on replacement and repair
Allowed return for refund within 30 days of purchase
Individual Soldiers and Marines want and like Surefires. That is a good indicator of quality. The fact that Surefire has government contact is not an indicator of quality one way or the other.


----------



## half-watt (Jul 20, 2007)

As i've posted elsewhere, the L1 i purchased was tested for 5minutes on high by Greg over at BrightGuy.com before he shipped it to me.

Now 5min. isn't a real long period of time. I suggested 5min because some early posts on the problem stated that it occurred within 2-3 minutes of turning on.

If mine will last 20min-30min without manifesting the overheating problem, then i'll be happy enough. Why just 20-30 min?

Well, as was explained to me once by a Caver, Cavers carry at least three light sources - two primary light sources and a backup.

Depending upon the light source, perhaps every 20-30 minutes or so, they switch over to the second Primary light source to allow the battery in first Primary light source to cool off and regain some voltage. Then after another similar period of time, they switch back to the first Primary light source, to give the second Primary light source time to cool off also.

I've followed this scheme for nighttime backpacking and also have two lights in my pockets even at home and work.

The fact that mine might not last 60+ minutes on HIGH output isn't too much of a concern for me.

However, i need to qualify that last statement. If the problem is also indicative of something that will degrade with continued use over the days and weeks ahead, then that would NOT be a good situation. A year or two from now, I don't want to go from 30+ minutes with no problem down to 5minutes and the problem develops.


----------



## katx (Jul 20, 2007)

jsw4178 said:


> I would say that is exceptional customer service for sure!



I agree.

However in another thread I learned from 4Sevens that Fenix Store would not do this and even considers it unethical.


----------



## katx (Jul 20, 2007)

enLIGHTenment said:


> No, it's a question.



So you are "questioning" their financial health?


----------



## luminata (Jul 20, 2007)

I know it sounds like an off the deep end rant but I am just tired of the endless sales hype created by the marketing depts. of these companies. not just SF many others also. They can spout off about World Class anything but they are not the ones down in the trenches actually performing those services. I have worked in Customer Serice for over 20 years. when I have a Customer in need,in a tight situation or desperate my mind immediately goes into overdrive thinking of a solution for them. It's called being pro-active,thinking outside the box. It virtually does not exist anymore in this country. I had field techs in desperate need of glassware in the field yesterday . I couldn't round up any of my couriers to get the bottles to them. So I re-arranged my entire schedule, cancelled two interdept. meetings and put off picking up my son and delivered the damn things myself. It saved them thousands of dollars by not having to return to the sight the next day. And to think I could have said "uhhh, we don't do that " . 
I believe it was 270 who returned his L1 just recently to SF and they sent him another one and guess what , it had the same issue. Now what, is he supposed to send it back again and pay for shipping again? unbelievable. 
Maybe SF should have taken that thing out of the package and tested it .

And if SF states 90 minutes on high and doesnt add that you have to turn the light off every 5-10 mins during that 90mins then that is just plain misrepresentation in my book . Why should you have to justify having to do that? 

If he wasnt gonna get the same light back maybe a call first to him would have been nice . is it in the SF manual? probably not , but imagine the possibilities.....


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 20, 2007)

If you buy the Surefire from a local retailer, can't you just take it back withing 30 days for a refund? If so, you would not need to pay shipping or wait for them to ship you a light. Just take the refund and buy another one from the same local dealer at the same time.

This is not a hypothetical question.


----------



## digitaleos (Jul 20, 2007)

To everybody complaining about paying for the shipping themselves. The Surefire C.S. rep I talked to offered to have UPS pick it up for me, but said it would probably be three days until they would pick it up. I told him I would just mail it back myself because I didn't want to have to wait any longer than necessary. After that he told me he would put a rush on it also. We'll see how this rush goes, they received it July 17th, I called last night to check on the status and was told it was still not done. I'll call back Monday and see where they are with it.

Chris


----------



## senna94 (Jul 20, 2007)

Surefire could e mail you a prepaid shipping slip that you simply tape to the box and drop it off at UPS etc. I have had Nikon do this for me before it is really convenient. All you need is a printer.


----------



## StinkyButler (Jul 20, 2007)

Still no answer on exactly what is causing this issue or what they're doing to fix it? It appears to be heat-related (at least according to maverick's test of runtime on high while submerged), but is the dimming and the flickering due to a short, or does it act that way by design?


----------



## luminata (Jul 20, 2007)

Well crap my pants and call me Spanky!!!! What was the Reps name I want to send him some flowers!!! He probably won't last long there though , that response to your requests was outside official procedures and as such is grounds for reprimand and termination. They might lose their sweet Gov't contract if they keep that stuff up. Please keep us updated on the rush. Even if it means 3 weeks instead of 5 that would be speedy .


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 20, 2007)

Recap:
It sounds like it is heat related because it does not happen when it is in water, but at that level the LED not putting off that much heat. We know that Cree LEDs can handle much higher temperatures without flickering. 

Question:
What does the flicker look like exactly? Like PWM?, Like a short?


----------



## luminata (Jul 20, 2007)

Well, my co-worker can be added to the list of output drop off problem L1s. He was off for a cpl days and took his L1 with him. Came back today with the story of using it at night and it flaked out on him. He got his a bit after me and seeing mine., at the time I hadnt discovered the rattle yet so I recommended it to him. Dont I feel like the chump now.:shakehead 

Also why I didnt return mine to the dealer is cause i didnt discover the rattle until a few days after I got it and it also took 10 days to get it from FEDEX and the dealer website says something like 72 hours for opened returns so I figured I lost my window. I think I will tell my buddy to at least try the dealer first , I dont want him going thru the SF crap.


----------



## OpticsHQ (Jul 20, 2007)

Yes it is very disappointing and aggravating to be waiting for a new product and then discover that it has problems. I did want to comment that SF is aware of the problem and has pulled all the lights for complete testing. That is a reason for the delay (I was quoted 2-4 weeks estimate for replacements/new shipments).


----------



## senna94 (Jul 20, 2007)

Maybe all of the problems are occuring because SF rushed to get them out so soon after the shot show!!!!!!


----------



## WildChild (Jul 20, 2007)

OpticsHQ said:


> Yes it is very disappointing and aggravating to be waiting for a new product and then discover that it has problems. I did want to comment that SF is aware of the problem and has pulled all the lights for complete testing. That is a reason for the delay (I was quoted 2-4 weeks estimate for replacements/new shipments).



Thanks for the update from SureFire!


----------



## JNewell (Jul 20, 2007)

Great service from a great dealer - thanks for the update.

That does raise questions about whether _all _of the early lights shouldn't be replaced/repaired, though.



OpticsHQ said:


> Yes it is very disappointing and aggravating to be waiting for a new product and then discover that it has problems. I did want to comment that SF is aware of the problem and has pulled all the lights for complete testing. That is a reason for the delay (I was quoted 2-4 weeks estimate for replacements/new shipments).


----------



## enLIGHTenment (Jul 20, 2007)

OpticsHQ said:


> I did want to comment that SF is aware of the problem and has pulled all the lights for complete testing.



So much for this juar being a minor problem that's been blown out of proportion by picky CPF white wall hunters, then....


----------



## elgarak (Jul 20, 2007)

enLIGHTenment said:


> So much for this juar being a minor problem that's been blown out of proportion by picky CPF white wall hunters, then....


I must admit that I was surprised by this news.

Then again, Surefire has much better numbers that we here, don't you think? Such as, the number of sold lights. And the number of returned lights.

Do you know those numbers? I for sure do not.

(Besides, read my post carefully. The reference to "picky white wall hunters" was directed towards reports of "horrible beams" -- not towards people with failing lights. I never assumed that people with failing lights are overly picky.)


----------



## GreySave (Jul 21, 2007)

<< I think the point is that we already paid for shipping - when it was shipped to us. It should have been working properly at that point. Now we have to pay additional to get it working right. 

This is analogous to purchasing a product, then after you receive it, SURPRISE! you have to wait 2-4 weeks and pay extra (that you didn't count on) before it functions.

The company sent a defective product unit. It should have never made it out the factory door and it should be fully their responsibility to make it right, regardless of the company. >>


I must agree with Quickbeam. There is a difference between having a product that fails a year from now (Paying for shipping is at least understandable) and one that has issues right out of the box. It has been my experience with other companies with such policies that when I explained that the product had just arrived and was defective out of the box they arranged for free shipping. 

Attutide does count though. Be polite, respectful, and factual when you make your request and they "should" see your point and handle it as goodwill. If, because of your attitude, they see no goodwill to be earned then there is little reason for them to agree to help. THis advice also comes from my prior position and experience in a service related industry. Agree with this or not, but how the person on the other end of the telephone perceives you does count and is factored into their decision.


----------



## half-watt (Jul 21, 2007)

There actually ought to be a general Recall of the product by SF with no expense to the owner. IMO, this is the way an honorable company would do it. What is the ethical rational for making a customer pay for the manufacturer's mistake? 

Note: my L1, up to this point at least, seems to be working fine, though i haven't run it on high for more than 10min continuously.


----------



## sbebenelli (Jul 21, 2007)

I just ran my L1 on high for 20 minutes. No problems at all. The light itself was warm at best after 20 minutes. I guess I can consider myself lucky at this point. I'm usually the one that ends up the unlucky one when something like this happens.


----------



## luminata (Jul 21, 2007)

good points Greysave. I agree , the customers attitude is also a factor in resolving issues with a product. I , being in customer relations always act the way I want to be treated . 

Now I am wondering what the other CPF'er who got the offer to have shipping covered by SF and also have a "rush" put on his case had to do to get this special treatment. having to beg and cajole better treatment from a company is not any more acceptable than disservice and you shouldnt have to bring better service solutions to the manufacturer/dealers attention. If SF has differing levels of CS based on who you get when you call then they have an additional quality control problem along with the L1.

Also good points being brought up for everybody with a new L1. What do you do now? My L1 didnt seem to have the drop in output problem but I only tested for 10min duration. when I get it back in a few months will it have been tested for this issue ? Should you send yours back? Man what a mess...


----------



## BugOutGear_USA (Jul 21, 2007)

Just found this thread and did the test on my personal L1 Cree...After 15 minutes same blinking/strobing effect everyone else has been running into. Mine was one of the first ones shipped.

Arghhh


----------



## luminata (Jul 21, 2007)

BUGOUTGEAR. Another good example of great customer service I have received in the past


----------



## JNewell (Jul 21, 2007)

I think it may be a little premature to say that there ought to be a full recall - it depends on what the problem is. I ran two 123As to moonmode on mine without any flickering, but I did not monitor for a dimming after the first few minutes, which others have reported, and which would sound like it might be the same problem, related to a heat issue? I can't say, but I assume SF is looking at this. 

In the end, you may turn out to be right. I guess we will all stay tuned...





half-watt said:


> There actually ought to be a general Recall of the product by SF with no expense to the owner. IMO, this is the way an honorable company would do it. What is the ethical rational for making a customer pay for the manufacturer's mistake?
> 
> Note: my L1, up to this point at least, seems to be working fine, though i haven't run it on high for more than 10min continuously.


----------



## BugOutGear_USA (Jul 21, 2007)

Maybe we can keep track of the SN#'s good and bad to figure out if this was an early problem and isolated to just L1's manufactured early on.

We should probably start another thread, but just to start it off mine is:

A00030

I'm curious to see what serial #'s the L1's not experiencing this problem are above/below.

Regards,
Flavio


----------



## JNewell (Jul 21, 2007)

That may be a good idea, since there are a lot of posts around issues other than specifically reporting problems in this thread, which makes it hard to get a feeling for the problems and s/ns. On a different issue, I have started a similar thread for tracking s/n and clear/frosted. 

Totally off topic, but thanks for the QTA on the Maxpedition order last week. Arrived on time and was a big help for my travel.



BugOutGear_USA said:


> Maybe we can keep track of the SN#'s good and bad to figure out if this was an early problem and isolated to just L1's manufactured early on.
> 
> We should probably start another thread, but just to start it off mine is:
> 
> ...


----------



## 270winchester (Jul 21, 2007)

BugOutGear_USA said:


> Maybe we can keep track of the SN#'s good and bad to figure out if this was an early problem and isolated to just L1's manufactured early on.
> 
> We should probably start another thread, but just to start it off mine is:
> 
> ...


my first one was of the A0003x range, not sure what exactly but a very close to yours.


----------



## tsl (Jul 21, 2007)

Guys, I'm not sure that serial numbers are going to be much help here. dano said that SF really doesn't number their lights sequentially. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2087504&postcount=16


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 21, 2007)

tsl said:


> Guys, I'm not sure that serial numbers are going to be much help here. dano said that SF really doesn't number their lights sequentially.
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2087504&postcount=16



Are they just random?


----------



## BugOutGear_USA (Jul 21, 2007)

...so what's the point of serial #'s? They may at least indicate batches and will give them some idea which ones were produced at a given time. A00001 may have not been the 1st light in a given production run, but may tell them it was 1st batch, 2nd batch, etc...otherwise why bother?

Just a thought...


----------



## 270winchester (Jul 22, 2007)

BugOutGear_USA said:


> ...so what's the point of serial #'s? They may at least indicate batches and will give them some idea which ones were produced at a given time. A00001 may have not been the 1st light in a given production run, but may tell them it was 1st batch, 2nd batch, etc...otherwise why bother?
> 
> Just a thought...



seeing who their main customers are, for tracking departmental purchases and make the persons with issued lights accountable for their equipment, kinda like in the army, lose your issued rifle and you pay for it.

at least that's what I would want if I was running the inventory of an organization


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't have any inside Surefire knowledge, but I don't think the Surefire serial numbers would be completely random. It seems like they would have some kind of pattern, even if it was not readily apparent. If the numbers were randomly assigned and all the information was contained in a database, would it not be harder to prevent duplicate IDs?


----------



## greenstuffs (Jul 22, 2007)

Oh crap my l1 just have the sick flickering, i will call them on monday, i really like this little light.


----------



## katx (Jul 22, 2007)

tsl said:


> Guys, I'm not sure that serial numbers are going to be much help here. dano said that SF really doesn't number their lights sequentially.
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2087504&postcount=16



That casts an entirely different....err.....light on the term "serial".


----------



## Size15's (Jul 22, 2007)

SureFire manufactures in batches.
Batches of machined, anodised and laser-etched components sit in trays waiting to be used to assemble whole products.

It is likely that A00001 is in the bottom tray of a stack of trays on a pallet having come from the laser-etching machine, and then those components in the top tray are used first by the assembly teams.

I would suggest that the ability to tell the 'age' of a product by its serial number is limited to a resolution of several thousand (+/-4000 perhaps). That is to say that A08000 is more than likely to have been part of a batch to leave the factory _after_ A01000 but that it is likely impossible to tell whether A05000 left before or after either A01000 or A08000.

Al


----------



## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 22, 2007)

I just ran my L1 on high for 88 minutes before I noticed dimming/flickering, and that was after a weekend of EDC on the same battery! No strobing, flickering, and it didnt get half as warm as my KL4. :twothumbs

I am sorry to hear so many having problems with theirs..... :sigh:


----------



## RAF_Groundcrew (Jul 22, 2007)

This may be a little off the current topic, but I bought my SF L1 (latest type prior to the Cree version) for the specific reason that it had a very low output/long runtime (90 hours)setting, just right for reading or navigating at night.

Now, you have this new version, with a significantly brighter but shorter runtime on both high and low setting, and it gets hot and is intermittent in operation! I know which one I will always prefer. 

Maybe SF should continue the Luxeon version as the L1, and rename the new Cree thing the L1.5 ?


----------



## KDOG3 (Jul 22, 2007)

Well I shipped mine back to them Thursday with a note saying I'd like it back before the 31st. Fat chance on that huh?


----------



## NickDrak (Jul 22, 2007)

I ran my new Cree L1 for 10mins. on high with no issues. I love it!:thumbsup:


----------



## woodrow (Jul 23, 2007)

I have said this before, and I still stick with it. It would really be in the best interest of factories, or at least dealers to test every light they send out for 3 minutes and a couple of extra on/off cycles before sending the light out.

How many problems would have this solved? They could add $1 to shipping to cover this. If this had happened, I would still have my SF M4.

It is even more agrivating that this is not done, by those of us who have thier lights sent out 2nd day air or overnight. After paying a extra $15-20, it really sucks to have to send a light back.

If I was Novatac, I would test every light that I sent out. Than I would laugh at threads like this one. Perception is everything. It would not mean that they had any fewer manufacturing defects than Surefire, just that the customer never saw them. 

Just a thought.


----------



## luminata (Jul 23, 2007)

Good point Woodrow!!!! I didnt even think about the people who paid extra for Express shipping. And it seems many of the defective ones started to drop out after only 30 secs. I wonder if SF even depresses the button once before sendiing the product to be packaged . I know, I know, with their Gov't contract they don't have time to check for things like this .

Kdog , I sent mine last Tursday also. I plan on calling them directly today and make sure someone has it in the pipeline. Based on past experiences I fear it is sitting in a pile somewhere and will stay there for weeks until I call so I am not gonna wait the month this time before calling. Even if your tracking on the shipping shows it arrived Call them and stay on them cause you aint gonna get a call from them saying they have it and are working on it.


----------



## elgarak (Jul 23, 2007)

woodrow said:


> I have said this before, and I still stick with it. It would really be in the best interest of factories, or at least dealers to test every light they send out for 3 minutes and a couple of extra on/off cycles before sending the light out.
> 
> How many problems would have this solved? They could add $1 to shipping to cover this. If this had happened, I would still have my SF M4.
> 
> ...


How do you know Surefire does NOT exactly that?

From what I've read, not having experienced it myself, your procedure would not have found this L1 failure. :devil:

What I'm saying is this: A manufacturer cannot test everything and infinitely long. They have to make a business-driven compromise. Some failures will always slip through.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 23, 2007)

I'm surprised that this seems to be a fairly common problem. I would think a thorough spot check of a random sample would have raised a red flag. Maybe these problems are less frequent than you would expect after reading this thread.


----------



## elgarak (Jul 23, 2007)

Art Vandelay said:


> I'm surprised that this seems to be a fairly common problem. I would think a thorough spot check of a random sample would have raised a red flag. Maybe these problems are less frequent than you would expect after reading this thread.


:devil:

That is what I am saying all the time.

When you read threads here on CPF, problems commonly appear more serious or more frequent than they are.

The main gripe of mine is that those problems take a life on their own. The problem gets associated with the product and stays with the product for a long time, even when the problem is already removed and taken care of.


----------



## gsm (Jul 23, 2007)

Well I just got my new L1 today a02353. It runs 25 min then starts to strobe. I changed to a fresh cell and it started again after 2 min. This light is to replace my gen2 L1 that is my edc at work. I use it clipped to my hat and run it on high for long periods of time so the new one dropping out like that will not work. Gsm


----------



## luminata (Jul 23, 2007)

Maybe it does make it seem worse than it is in some cases , but if people dont talk about it then nothing happens. SF has recalled all the l1s from dealers so all the"squaking" on here must have done some good, at least future L1 buyers will not be affllicted with this problem and as time goes on more people are seeing this thread and posting their experience with the L1 so far. I am sure this will affect L1 sales in the future even after they "fix" the problem. Is that our fault? I pre-ordered the L1 without hesitation because I knew from experience that overall SF makes a good product, great machining,great anodizing. I also knew their customer service and response times to problems was less than World Class (whatever that means) from direct experience but I figured chances were pretty good I wouldnt have a rpoblem with this light. I lost the gamble and unfortunately SF hasnt changed a bit. I think that is what irks me more than the defective light .
I think Surefire is going to be just fine after all this and will still be raking in the dough . And maybe Customer Service performance will become more consitant and improve overall as a result also .


----------



## half-watt (Jul 23, 2007)

luminata said:


> ...SF has recalled all the l1s from dealers so all the"squaking" on here must have done some good, at least future L1 buyers will not be affllicted with this problem...



when SF gets a handle on their problems, i want to see how honorable/ethical a company they are. will they step up to the plate and replace the lights of ALL (who desire to have them replaced) who have already purchased them?

not doing so would be analogous to a car manufacturer fixing a problem with a new car model due to existing owners having problems with their automobiles, but then telling the existing owners with potential problem vehicles, "if you want your problem fixed, buy one of the new cars which have been redesigned to eliminate that problem". in other words, "the problem is yours as the owner, not mine as the manufacturer - hey, i've already got your money!"

please, don't get me wrong. i'm NOT suggesting SF is that kind of company. i'm only suggesting that without concrete evidence to the contrary, the jury is still out on this one. now, if SF has a good track record of recalling and replacing, then i believe history will repeat itself in this case. however, if there is no historical track record that SF has ever done this in the past (IF there have been similar problems in the past??? don't know.), then the jury is still out and assuming otherwise would be an argument from lack of evidence (not much to hang one's hat on, i would say).

let's hope SF proves themselves to be as top-notch honorably and ethically as the products they usually (but unfortunately not always) make.


----------



## cslinger (Jul 23, 2007)

> when SF gets a handle on their problems, i want to see how honorable/ethical a company they are. will they step up to the plate and replace the lights of ALL (who desire to have them replaced) who have already purchased them?



They do that now. Surefire's warranty service is generally excellent. Sometimes a little slow but very good. Surefire has replaced lamp assemblies that only had minor alignment issues. I cannot imagine they wouldn't replace every single defective L1 where the user requests.


----------



## luminata (Jul 23, 2007)

I sent a very courteous/respectful email to them today asking for a confirmation that they did receive my defective L1 and are in the process of repair. I will let you know what the response is. hopefully it will be more than the previous "uh,we dont do that"


----------



## gsm (Jul 23, 2007)

Well I just got of the phone with customer service and the rep said this was the first he has heard of the problem. I think there is enough people here with issues that it is not a fluke. The problem seems to be thermal. This light should run until the cell is dead without strobing after 25 min. I have had good luck with Surefire customer service in the past, we will see this time. I am not happy that I have to pay shipping to return a defective product. I was told it was policy. They could at least throw in a box of batteries to compensate. I think anyone getting this light should run it on high until the cell is dead just to check it. Gsm


----------



## woodrow (Jul 23, 2007)

elgarak said:


> How do you know Surefire does NOT exactly that?
> 
> From what I've read, not having experienced it myself, your procedure would not have found this L1 failure. :devil:


 
I agree that testing lights for a few minutes and on/off cycles will not show every problem. I do believe that it would take care of 60-70% of them. The cost would not be that large either. I believe that it also only needs to be done on $90+ lights.

My brand new M4 blew its $23 bulb within 20 seconds of me turning it on right out of the box. That light was over $300 and not that easily justified of a purchase for me. I took it right back to Sportsman's Warehouse and asked for a refund. I know bulbs blow...but my perception of SF was damaged. Again...it would not cost that much for a few minutes of testing. This would not solve all problems, but it would solve many.

Surefire can do what it wants. They are still riding on a rock solid rep they earned with their incan lights. But they can also pretty quickly loose credibility. All they have to do is ask Mbenz how they suffered over the last several years. When both you and several co workers have their transmissions stop working, because some coffee sloshed over your coffee cup in your cup holder... you get p*ssed and tell a few people. Thats the same thing that is happening here. If your the Benz owner, all of a sudden, you could care less about the companies long and prestigious history. You just want your new expensive toy (sorry, tool) to work. And you loose that feeling that you beloved car will never let you down. I believe many Surefire owners will feel the same way. Sf U2, L1... what new model will be next?


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 23, 2007)

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/strfnbr/6/pgrfnbr/260

"*Our guarantee is unconditional. If any purchase fails to meet your complete satisfaction, for any reason, you may return it or exchange it within 30 days of receipt of your shipment*. Before returning any product, you MUST obtain a Return Merchandise Authorization number (RMA) from a customer service representative." (emphasis mine)

Surefire is still one of the best in my book. Not many companies stand behind their product like Surefire.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jul 23, 2007)

I hope mine doesn't take 30 days!  I'm gonna call them tomorrow and see whats going on...


----------



## JNewell (Jul 23, 2007)

Depending on what's going on with this design - if there's a problem with the design, as opposed to a afew bad lights making it out of the factory - you may find that there won't be any new ones, or replacements, in the stream for quite a while. Let us know what you hear.



KDOG3 said:


> I hope mine doesn't take 30 days!  I'm gonna call them tomorrow and see whats going on...


----------



## shotcalla (Jul 23, 2007)

Got my new L1 today, ran it on high for over 1 hour 45 min and had no issues, got a bit hot but still was bright.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 23, 2007)

shotcalla said:


> Got my new L1 today, ran it on high for over 1 hour 45 min and had no issues, got a bit hot but still was bright.


Shotcalla, welcome to CPF. It's good to hear from somebody who is happy with their new L1. I'd like to see more posts from people who are happy with the L1. Sometimes we only hear about the problems, and then it seems like all the L1s must be bad, even if they are not.


----------



## StinkyButler (Jul 23, 2007)

Just ran mine on high for 41 minutes with no dimming or flickering whatsoever, although it is very warm to the touch, all the way down to the tailcap. I turned it off after that amount of time because I figured the problem would have manifested by then if it was going to at all. I have to say, this light is _awesome_. It's my new EDC and I can't see anything taking its place anytime soon.

I know a bunch of owners are seeing the flickering issue, but I hope people don't start to lose all confidence in Surefire. When they get it right, they produce some superb tools, and the non-flickering version of the L1 is one of them. It just so happens that a (small?) percentage of 1 of the 3 new Cree models has an issue. Knowing that, they are recalling the lights to examine and fix them. Sounds like they're at least trying.


----------



## batman (Jul 23, 2007)

StinkyButler said:


> Just ran mine on high for 41 minutes with no dimming or flickering whatsoever, although it is very warm to the touch, all the way down to the tailcap. I turned it off after that amount of time because I figured the problem would have manifested by then if it was going to at all. I have to say, this light is _awesome_. It's my new EDC and I can't see anything taking its place anytime soon.
> 
> I know a bunch of owners are seeing the flickering issue, but I hope people don't start to lose all confidence in Surefire. When they get it right, they produce some superb tools, and the non-flickering version of the L1 is one of them. It just so happens that a (small?) percentage of 1 of the 3 new Cree models has an issue. Knowing that, they are recalling the lights to examine and fix them. Sounds like they're at least trying.


 
Exactly right. Surefire's never taken long to fix any of the warranty repairs i've sent in. One was just to clean the lens,..they took care of it for free too. IT's just common sense though stay off the damn email and pick up the phone to deal with them- like ANY customer service dept.


----------



## luminata (Jul 23, 2007)

AAHHH!!! More stellar CS from Surefire. I must admit they do respond to emails quite quickly even if they dont read the whole thing or just ignore 75% of it. 

In addition to asking if they had indeed received my L1 I also asked a few other questions directly related to the L1 . 

The response to my email was as follows

"Your light was received on 7/20."...........That's it no more no less. But they do stick that little catchy motto at the end of the email and at least they didnt say "uh,we don't do that"

thats funny, some companies only deal in email communications nowadays. To me either should be just as effective and with email it gives you time to really think out your response to the customer ,even more of an opportunity to shine on a world class level . I would say I myself communicate 50-50 phone/computer with customers.


----------



## CallMeDave (Jul 23, 2007)

luminata said:


> SF has recalled all the l1s from dealers so all the"squaking" on here must have done some good...



What Mike actually wrote was:



OpticsHQ said:


> I did want to comment that SF is aware of the problem and has pulled all the lights for complete testing.



He does not say anything about having dealers send back their existing inventory.

To further confuse the issue, Greg at BrightGuy answered my query (I have an L1 on order with him, due for delivery tomorrow) by stating that he called SF (on my behalf) and was told that there is no dealer recall, and that L1's are out of stock due to demand, not due to any problem with the light. He noted that none of his L1 customers have reported any problems, while at the same time making clear that I can return it within 30 days for any reason.

I'll burn through a primary tomorrow.

Dave


----------



## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 23, 2007)

Again, mine works good so far. Ran it 88 minutes, have put 30 more minutes on my second battery. No problems thus far. I am still shocked at the problems being shown here. Dont worry, SF will make it right, even if you do have to wait a little while...... :thumbsup:


----------



## luminata (Jul 23, 2007)

Hmmm. I wonder what pulled means and complete testing, I thought he meant pulled from the shelves of dealers ......
I wonder why SF is claiming ignorance of the whole thing? Very cloak and dagger like 

I think someone should start a thread titled Happy go Lucky Surefire Cree L1 owners with NO Issues for Art V soon.


----------



## half-watt (Jul 24, 2007)

cslinger said:


> They do that now. Surefire's warranty service is generally excellent. Sometimes a little slow but very good. Surefire has replaced lamp assemblies that only had minor alignment issues. I cannot imagine they wouldn't replace every single defective L1 where the user requests.




i've never needed their services for repair (the nine SF lights i own have never malfunctioned, including, thus far, the new L1 Cree).

my point is that there is a difference between a good light failing and a bad light being received that doesn't work (or work properly) from the "get-go".

some have had to pay to return their "as received directly from SF defective light", not just once, but twice. this is inexcusable to my way of thinking. making me pay for your mistake essentially.

now, i believe i read somewhere that another individual had SF issue a pick-up notice to a shipper to pick it up free of charge and deliver back to SF for repair. if i'm recalling this correctly, this ought to be offered to everyone. i've done this more than once with other non-SF products that were received as defective.


----------



## Hans (Jul 24, 2007)

luminata said:


> I wonder why SF is claiming ignorance of the whole thing? Very cloak and dagger like



I think you're going a bit far here. Surely the most important thing is that SF makes sure that present owners whose L1's don't work properly get working lights back as soon as possible, and that in the future *all* lights work properly from the start. It's not really all that important what they say or don't say about the current state of affairs, even though it would be nice to get some more hard facts from them. I think it would help to put the minds of people whose lights are working at rest. After all, even if your light works now you don't know what will happen in a few weeks. 

BTW, I'm convinced they *know* there are problems with some lights, and I'm also sure they know by now what caused these problems and how they can be rectified. Their track record is excellent, and I don't doubt they'll sort out whatever went wrong very quickly.

It would be nice though if they found a way to compensate owners of broken L1's for the shipping costs. Even a small gesture like including a handful of free CR123's when they return the lights would go a long way to make people happy.

Hans


----------



## half-watt (Jul 24, 2007)

Hans said:


> BTW, I'm convinced they *know* there are problems with some lights, and I'm also sure they know by now what caused these problems and how they can be rectified. Their track record is excellent, and I don't doubt they'll sort out whatever went wrong very quickly.
> 
> It would be nice though if they found a way to compensate owners of broken L1's for the shipping costs. Even a small gesture like including a handful of free CR123's when they return the lights would go a long way to make people happy.
> 
> Hans




good points.

sounds like there is input from Corporate Counsel going into SF's official (or unofficial) statements, regarding this issue. the reasons for this should be obvious given our litigious society.

hopefully, they will throw in a box of 12 SF CR123A's with every return for a DOA light. that would show them to be honorable.


----------



## luminata (Jul 24, 2007)

Since the question was ignored in correspondence with the World Class CS of SF can someone tell me if they give you a tracking number when they return your light to you ? Since they didnt ask for an email address when they gave me an RMA number and I seriously doubt they call you when they send it back I am thinking they don't. And do THEY insure it? 
Please tell me if asking these questions is more than I am entitled to because I get the feeling from fanatical SF supporters that I am not supposed to ask or expect these things?
I know I shouldnt be asking them if they will test whatever they send me back for the overheating /output on high issue and will have to waste another primary and sit there with the light in hand for an hour or more when I do get it back anyways. 
Is surefires unconditional Guarantee applicable to any light purchased from anywhere or only if you get it directly from them? In other words could I call them now and get a full MSRP refund from them ? I just ask cause I am thinking I should have gone with the NOVATAC


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Jul 24, 2007)

I am wondering if SF changed the location of the LE. The body of the new L1 seems to be shorter. Have they integrated the LE into the head of the light, or was it always there? Also, did they change the circuit so that low is regulated. If there is a change in circuit design, then maybe that has something to do with the new problems. JMTC'sW.

Bill


----------



## JNewell (Jul 24, 2007)

There is information posted in another thread on the new L1. The circuit board is now mounted transverse, like the A2, so it takes much less room in the body of the light than the previously axially mounted board (which continues in the L2).



Bullzeyebill said:


> I am wondering if SF changed the location of the LE. The body of the new L1 seems to be shorter. Have they integrated the LE into the head of the light, or was it always there? Also, did they change the circuit so that low is regulated. If there is a change in circuit design, then maybe that has something to do with the new problems. JMTC'sW.
> 
> Bill


----------



## Silversurfer (Jul 24, 2007)

Today July 24 I received a replacement L1.

After 15 minutes of runtime everything is working as it should. I will try to stress test the light on high later.

On 7/20 Surefire's CS rep reported that SF had received the light on 7/17. She had no status report to give me and asked me to call back on Monday 7/23. 

The replacement light was sent by UPS ground on 7/18.

She apparently had no record of that when I spoke with her two days AFTER the replacement light had been sent.

Customer service is only as helpful as the internal data at hand.


----------



## luminata (Jul 24, 2007)

These people need to get their friggin' crap together. I am really getting ticked off now. I have been told 4-6 weeks for a resolution on my light. So some get a replacement shipped the next day which is great , others wait 4-6weeks? what's wrong with this picture. I can tell you one thing , I am gonna get some answers tomorrow. unbelievable ....:sick2:


----------



## half-watt (Jul 25, 2007)

luminata said:


> These people need to get their friggin' crap together. I am really getting ticked off now. I have been told 4-6 weeks for a resolution on my light. So some get a replacement shipped the next day which is great , others wait 4-6weeks? what's wrong with this picture. I can tell you one thing , I am gonna get some answers tomorrow. unbelievable ....:sick2:




how do we know that those with the fast turnaround aren't getting the exact same light back again?

it's probably unlikely that they are (though one person had something like this happen, right?), but that sure could account for a fast turnaround.

receive light. turn it on in low for a few seconds. turn it on in high for a few seconds. yup. no strobing. "good light, strong light, strong like bull, will make you good flashlight, you two very happy together" [sorry, not good at a Russian/EasternEuropean accent]. send it back the same or next day. 

hopefully, that scenario, or one close to it, is not what is happening.


----------



## greenstuffs (Jul 25, 2007)

whats unbelievable is the crappy light surefire just "rushed" out to the market, i got a dud as well with strobe symptoms. Just called CS today, i told him about the flickering issue and he just said "we need to get that repaired" i'm sure they have acknowledged the problem.


----------



## matrixshaman (Jul 25, 2007)

gsm said:


> Well I just got my new L1 today a02353. It runs 25 min then starts to strobe. I changed to a fresh cell and it started again after 2 min. This light is to replace my gen2 L1 that is my edc at work. I use it clipped to my hat and run it on high for long periods of time so the new one dropping out like that will not work. Gsm



Sorry to hear that - overall I think SF really stumbled on this one. It seems very much like a design defect. SF needs to make this right and do it fast.


----------



## matrixshaman (Jul 25, 2007)

luminata said:


> Maybe it does make it seem worse than it is in some cases , but if people dont talk about it then nothing happens. SF has recalled all the l1s from dealers so all the"squaking" on here must have done some good, at least future L1 buyers will not be affllicted with this problem and as time goes on more people are seeing this thread and posting their experience with the L1 so far. .



That's good news they have recalled these. That tells me the are truly aware of the problem and have a plan to fix it. Good for SF and good for customers.


----------



## matrixshaman (Jul 25, 2007)

CallMeDave said:


> What Mike actually wrote was:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oops - I guess what I just wrote was incorrect. I see this as bad news if there is not a recall. IMO they need to take the bull by the horns on this one or it's going to hurt them in a big way.


----------



## matrixshaman (Jul 25, 2007)

luminata said:


> These people need to get their friggin' crap together. I am really getting ticked off now. I have been told 4-6 weeks for a resolution on my light. So some get a replacement shipped the next day which is great , others wait 4-6weeks? what's wrong with this picture. I can tell you one thing , I am gonna get some answers tomorrow. unbelievable ....:sick2:



I have to say one more thing. I feel for you and I think I would at this point just ask for a refund. Afterall is this one light mission critical? Isn't there another light that could replace it for now? I know we all want one of these new L1's badly but at this point I think it's time to TALK with our wallets. We all have other lights and many can do essentially the same job. Wait until SF gets this all ironed out and is producing consistent quality L1's. In the meantime send your defective light back for a refund. That willl get their attention better IMO.


----------



## StinkyButler (Jul 25, 2007)

greenstuffs said:


> whats unbelievable is the crappy light surefire just "rushed" out to the market...


 
I thought people were complaining a few months back that Surefire was slow to get these lights to market. Now that they're available they were rushed? Or was that sarcasm? Hard to tell.

Anyway, the one I have does not flicker, and it is the farthest from a "crappy light" that I've ever seen. It's awesome, and by saying that I in NO WAY mean to rub anything in the faces of those who received problem models. My sole point is to say that the new L1 is a damned fine piece of work and I respect a lot of things about it. Just about everyone who received one that works properly seems to indicate the same thing.


----------



## luminata (Jul 25, 2007)

Well , I fired off another email to SF elaborating a bit further on my concerns with the L1 and exactly what I would be getting back and the 4-6week estimated turnaround . They responded within 24hrs which was nice. The general tone of the response was a bit on the "snippy" side for lack of a better term and my concerns on the over-heating?regulation?dropoff on high issue and whether what they returned to me being either a complete new light or the original/repaired would be tested for this issue were once again completely ignore. 

I was basically treated like a little boy being scolded by the Nanny. I was told "you are not the only person with a light in for repair" and "I don't know where you got 4-6weeks turnaround for repairs"

Well, I got 4-6weeks from one of their CS agents upon getting my RMA number and I do realize I am not the only person in the world . All I have asked for is a bit more accuracy in their responses and a bit of insight into exactly what they intend on doing about the problems some customers including myself are having with the L1. 

I have been polite and respectful in each correspondence with them 

I would never dream of responding to a customer in this manner and if I had agents in CS making responses like this in my company it would be addressed immediately. I worked in hotel management for quite a few years, can you imagine a front desk agent responding to your questions about rates or room availability or ugradeswith or having your room not ready or your reservation incorrect with this statement "you arent the only person in this hotel you know"

These people are not doing me any favors though I am getting the distinct feeling I should be acting as if they are? I relate these experiences only to let others know what they may/maynot be in for when having problems with a SF product . One thing is definetly clear, there is no fluid exchange of information between people/departments at SF and this can lead to incorrect information and just plain frustration and aggravation. I had hoped things had changed in SF over the years but apparently they have not. 

Being treated this way by a company taking your hard earned money in exchange for a product may be acceptable to many in todays society and maybe I am out of touch with todays way of doing business I dont know.:shrug:


----------



## Kiessling (Jul 25, 2007)

Did it occur to you once that multiple contacts, questions, requests and complaints about a single light send back for repair might be a bit on the excessive side? Looking at the whole affair from this POV makes me understand the CS reps way better.
Now imagine dozens of CPFers bothering in the same manner.
I personally would go nuts and ban CPFers from purchasing SF lights.
I am wondering why they are so patient.
bernie


P.S.: this does not mean I think the DOA lights and apparent problems are cool though. I am merely commenting on us and how we might appear from the outside.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 25, 2007)

I think Surefire will help as soon as possible. That may not be fast enough for everybody. Surefire does guarantee unconditional satisfaction, or you can have a refund within 30 days. That's one of the best guarantees around. Even the best company is eventually going have some kind of problem with a product. I don't have personal knowledge about the L1 issue. I'm basing my beliefs on my previous experience as an individual customer of Surefire.


----------



## CallMeDave (Jul 25, 2007)

Received my L1 yesterday. Left it on for 20+ minutes on high, no problem with output.

I'm not totally blown away with the light, however. My beam is oddly misshaped, with the hot spot surrounded by a circle that's sort of squashed along around 45 degrees of arc.

The size and feel in the hand are great, but I'd like to be able to remove the nylon lanyard ring (which isn't shown on the website pictures), as it sticks out on the bottom side of the tailcap. It looks to be permanently installed, so I'd have to cut it off forever. 

I'm not a white wall hunter, but for this price point I'd have appreciated a more refined beam. I can live with the rings, but I'm a nut for symmetry. 

I'll keep using it for a few weeks; but so far I'm leaning towards sending it back for a refund/credit (minus the free shipping that I didn't pay when I bought it)


----------



## digitaleos (Jul 25, 2007)

Time for a little rant! I received my first L1 on July 10th, it turned out to be one of the duds. I mailed it back to Surefire for repair on July 11th, that same day I ordered another L1, figuring what are the chances of getting another dud, then I would sell one of them once I got the first one back from Surefire. Well, guess what, I got another [email protected]%^*%$ dud. Initially I thought I had a good one, I ran it for about 3.5-4 minutes and everything seemed fine. Then two nights ago I had it on high for about 6 minutes outside and began to flicker.:scowl: I will be trying to get a refund on my second L1, and when the first one gets back to me, it's getting tested until the battery is drained.

Chris


----------



## Size15's (Jul 25, 2007)

CallMeDave said:


> ...I'd like to be able to remove the nylon lanyard ring (which isn't shown on the website pictures), as it sticks out on the bottom side of the tailcap. It looks to be permanently installed, so I'd have to cut it off forever.


If you are intended to sell it, I wouldn't suggest attempt to remove the TailCap lanyard ring, but the ring can be removed and replaced because it snaps together, and can be prised apart with a thin blade. You may find a micro flat bladed screw driver can be used. Be careful though, its not that easy. If you use the tip of a knife please be careful not to slip and cut yourself.


----------



## CallMeDave (Jul 25, 2007)

Size15's said:


> ...the ring can be removed and replaced because it snaps together, and can be prised apart with a thin blade.




Thank you very much for this! I thought about trying to wedge open the gap, but didn't want to do anything until I'd committed to keep the light. 

The photo you linked to will help enormously in prying things in the correct direction if I decide to do it.


----------



## luminata (Jul 25, 2007)

I have had 1 correspondence by phone to receive a RMA # and then 2 total by email. The 2nd email was because the questions of my first email were ignored past my first question which was to confirm that they had indeed received the light. 

In the 2nd response , all questions past the first were also ignored and more text was given to the Nanny remarks which could have been devoted to the actual questions being asked.

Obviously Keissling you are not in Customer Service and should never accept a position in this field. 
TOO many questions - You are Summarily Banned from purchasing my lights.. Now Go You Filthy Ignorant Annoying Peasant!!! actually maybe you would fit in at SF pretty well. It brings to mind an episode of Seinfeld (an old comedy show from the 90's). the episode had a Deli or restauraunt owner who served incredible soup but if you asked for anything extra or crossed the owner, he would yell "no soup for you!!" and ban you from his Deli. I can't remeber what they called the guy , It was one of their most popular episodes. 

I do realize that the phones/email Customer support at these companies are usually manned by $9.00/hr little punks with attitude problems intentionally armed with little knowledge and watching the clock for the 5 oclock whistle . I also realize it is not in SFs' best interest to come out and say "yes there is a problem with this light" and have sales plummet until it is fixed .. If a problem no matter how big or small can be publicly denied and rectified in private it will save the company a ton of money . that is business . Thats why they have ignored my questions and deny any issue with the L1 to others .

Uhm.... Keissling, Your not gonna ban me from this thread/CPF because of my response is ya?


----------



## StinkyButler (Jul 25, 2007)

Dude...calm down. It's going to be okay.


----------



## seery (Jul 25, 2007)

Kiessling said:


> Did it occur to you once that multiple contacts, questions, requests and complaints about a single light send back for repair might be a bit on the excessive side?


+1


----------



## Size15's (Jul 25, 2007)

luminata said:


> Uhm.... Keissling, Your not gonna ban me from this thread/CPF because of my response is ya?


Best not to bait, especially a moderator. After all, if you do get yourself banned you won't be able to vent about your new L1 experiences on CPF.

Al :green:


----------



## PhantomPhoton (Jul 25, 2007)

luminata said:


> TOO many questions - You are Summarily Banned from purchasing my lights.. Now Go You Filthy Ignorant Annoying Peasant!!! actually maybe you would fit in at SF pretty well. It brings to mind an episode of Seinfeld (an old comedy show from the 90's). the episode had a Deli or restauraunt owner who served incredible soup but if you asked for anything extra or crossed the owner, he would yell "no soup for you!!" and ban you from his Deli. I can't remeber what they called the guy , It was one of their most popular episodes.



I believe that would be The Soup Nazi. 
:duh2:

Anyway To all who have gotten shipped flawed products, you have my sympathies. I'm also glad to see some people have received working lights. I'm still on the fence about buying an L1 at the moment. I hope it gets resolved soon.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 25, 2007)




----------



## BugOutGear_USA (Jul 25, 2007)

I was able to test a total of 4 of the new L1 Cree's and ran all of them for 40 minutes. Only 1 out of 4 had the problems everyone else has experienced.


----------



## greenstuffs (Jul 26, 2007)

Those a better chances than getting blackjack at the casino 25% :thinking:


BugOutGear_USA said:


> I was able to test a total of 4 of the new L1 Cree's and ran all of them for 40 minutes. Only 1 out of 4 had the problems everyone else has experienced.


----------



## luminata (Jul 26, 2007)

I really wasnt trying to provoke Keissling into any kind of action it was a joke tied into his statement of baning CPFrs from buying flashlights.
I know I am venting like a NEW York Sewer system on here and I will stop now. Its's just Sf attitude towards its lifeblood (ie.customers) really got my goat . When I can scrape together enough money to buy something high end like a SF , it is a big deal for me. I dont have alot of spare cash lying around like alot of the Flashaholics on here. So when I cant get any acknowledgement from SF about a definite random yet reoccuring problem,
the result is I get a bit upset/annoyed and when I end up with nothing but the pissy attitude of a CS rep "holding all the cards" and someone else has my money in their pockets,I start ranting. So unless I get actual hard info pertaining to the L1 problems I will cease and desist ranting about their World Class Customer Service.


----------



## Size15's (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey I think this situation, like others involving new products from SureFire cause people to need to vent for various reasons.
I think its good raise issues and concerns and share information and understanding - share solutions.

I find it is more productive to stick to the facts - the knowns. Leave the assumptions and whatnot aside as things can get out of hand and make matters worse.

SureFire and its products provoke a great deal of expectation and emotional (as well as financial) investment. For CPFers some of SureFire's products are on the edge of affordability and the consequences of the products or services not living up to the expectation and emotional investments is quite serious for individuals.

Managing hype and expectations can be quite difficult - both for those trying to give situations a grounding / reality check, and for the individual who has, as I've said, a lot invested in the product.

It appears that SureFire are not set-up to specifically respond for the niche needs of CPFers and as a result fail to satisfy them in some cases.

CPFers don't have a good record of allowing SureFire to engage with our community in a constructive way. We are not that good at building a positive relationship between manufacturers and ourselves.

If I was to purchase a new L1, and I found it flickered like people have reported their new L1's are doing - I would be annoyed as well. My solution is not to allow negative feelings to control my perspective if I can possibly help it. I find I'm happier and more relaxed as a result.

Al


----------



## luminata (Jul 26, 2007)

Well put Size15s. And I think after my personal issues with the L1 are resolved I will refrain from investing what , for me are fairly large sums of $ into lights and stay in the lower end of the pricing spectrum . It is very true if the emotional investment is so great as to overshadow the fun/enjoyment of it then maybe the venture should not be taken in the first place. This money should have gone into my sons' college funds so maybe the problems with Sf and the L1 have opened the gates on my guilt at buying this light in the first place. But SF CS still leaves a bad taste in ones mouth and my expereience will defintley play a factor in any future light purchases I make.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jul 26, 2007)

Well I called them Tuesday and the guy on the phone said about a week turn-around. If thats' true, then thats not too bad. I REALLY hope the replacement/repair is perfect. I put a note in there asking that it be thoroughly tested before returning. Hopefully they will. I'm going to call next Monday or Tuesday to check in... maybe email them.

I think we as CPF'ers should temper our comments a little though. Surefire reps DO read these forums and they are pretty cool to CPF. (like at SHOT) I don't think we want to ruin that courtesy do we? That said, it is a major bummer when an expensive piece of gear is defective. If Surefire is reading this thread then I do sincerely hope they TRULY get this problem resolved and throwing in a box of batts would be cool as well. Or maybe a ball cap. Or a t-shirt....


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Jul 26, 2007)

Well said, Size15's, also KDOG3. Surefire does treat CPF'ers well, and does appreciate, I believe, our business with them. I am sure that Paul Kim's recognizes that we are a huge market for Surefire, and a testing ground for their products. You would realize this if you attended PK's party/promotion held yearly, for CPF'ers, during the SHOT show. He treats us as though we were one very large customer, worthy enough to be presented a special recognition.

Bill


----------



## JNewell (Jul 26, 2007)

Just to get a little balance back into this thread, I called Surefire customer service earlier this week because an old light of mine has developed a small tear in the rubber on the tailcap. Their response to a wear and tear problem on a very old light? They sent me a replacement, immediately, for no cost.

Rant all you want...I understand very well how frustrating it is to get a bum light out of the box...but SF is still way out front in terms of stand-up customer service. No one even touches them or comes close.


----------



## Size15's (Jul 26, 2007)

Hi Bill,
I suggest a different perspective from the one you describe - although PK has hosted SureFire parties for CPF members at SHOT Shows, it is because he himself is a Flashaholic (something he freely admits) and it cool to be around people who are passionate about flashlights - to get that diversity of experience and perspectives. Where SureFires and flashlights in general are not viewed primarily as tools to do a job but as objects of desire, perhaps even obsesssion.

I do not get the impression that CPF members are in any way a "huge market for SureFire". Far from it. 
CPF is more talk than action in terms of buying lots of lights. For example, if we as a community/club/group were avid flashlight buyers I think we would see far more "CPF branded" flashlights and specials. The CPF community have never managed to get SureFire or a SureFire Dealer to make us a CPF SureFire. There just isn't the market here on CPF to support the minimum order for special editions.

Al


----------



## 270winchester (Jul 26, 2007)

Size15's said:


> I do not get the impression that CPF members are in any way a "huge market for SureFire". Far from it.
> CPF is more talk than action in terms of buying lots of lights. For example, if we as a community/club/group were avid flashlight buyers I think we would see far more "CPF branded" flashlights and specials. The CPF community have never managed to get SureFire or a SureFire Dealer to make us a CPF SureFire. There just isn't the market here on CPF to support the minimum order for special editions.
> 
> Al



http://insulatorz.home.att.net/cpf50.htm

BTW Al, I understand the volume issue, but we sure are some fine guinea pigs for SF's new products. It's much easier to test the new L1 on CPFers than some person in the purchasing department of a major government agency.


----------



## carrot (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey, I'm sure I have had a much worse experience than you. But I don't complain about it. God forbid, I had a problem with an expensive little light I bought from McGizmo, partially my fault and partially his. This light is more than twice the cost of an L1. It took two, even three months for the USPS to get my light back to Don -- I had thought it lost, and shrugged it off. The purchase price of the light was far from expendable for me, but there was nothing I could do but wait and see. Long after I thought the light was gone for good, Don emailed me back saying that he had fixed the problem I had been experiencing and shipped it back express. Needless to say the light that came back to me quickly became one of my favorite lights. :thumbsup:

What I'm saying is, be patient, things happen and nobody is perfect, so you have to allow for a little leeway here and there. When you finally get a light that works perfectly I am sure that you will be very pleased with it. I'm sure that Surefire is doing their best to fix the situation that has probably become a total customer service disaster, and being the reputable company that they are, I know they will do right by the customer, even if it takes some time. Would you rather they sent out lights multiple times, each one being defective, or sent out one that worked perfectly after a long waiting period?


----------



## bigfoot (Jul 26, 2007)

I still plan on getting an L1. Am I going to wait a little bit for whatever problem there is to get straightened out? Yes.

Surefire will fix the problem. You can't have defective products floating around, especially with their main emphasis on public safety and military uses.

Imagine if their lights developed a reputation for failure; they would watch their business dwindle overnight.

I can't speak for their lifetime warranty service, as I haven't had to use it yet, and hopefully will never have to. But it's nice to know that it's there, "just in case".

As with anything, there are always speed bumps...


----------



## Ozniot (Jul 26, 2007)

Received my L1 CREE from batteryjunction today. Does get warm fast, but no problem maintaining regulation on high for over an hour. Mine also has a nice white tint. Couldn't be happier. Sorry for people who got lemons.


----------



## Size15's (Jul 26, 2007)

270winchester said:


> http://insulatorz.home.att.net/cpf50.htm
> 
> BTW Al, I understand the volume issue, but we sure are some fine guinea pigs for SF's new products. It's much easier to test the new L1 on CPFers than some person in the purchasing department of a major government agency.


The fifty CPF50 Special G2's were a gift from PK at SureFire to CPF which Sasha used in a raffle to help support the running costs of CPF so it doesn't count.





It's not as if a CPF-Supporting SureFire Dealer had a load of special flashlights customised for CPF made up which CPF members then purchased.

I think you'll find that when SureFire tests its new products it uses 'major government agencies' such as DARPA and there is a whole feedback process in place to facilitate quality information gathering. The retail market for SureFires is mostly a spin-off from R&D of military and specialist Government & Law Enforcement products. SureFire has liaison staff, sometimes out in the field with teams of users to gather feedback etc for R&D. 

The natural question is - if this is so, why is my L1 experiencing problems? Shouldn't these have been ironed out in pre-production field-testing and evaluation?
My answer, based on experience working in this field of pre-production product testing, is that when new products are in development, they are often manufactured and assembled by a different team to the production process. Issues and problems can develop as a result of producing the far larger quantities of products on the production lines.
Tracing out & tracking down the root cause of an problem can take time and tends to be pretty complex. For example, it could be one operator, one machine, one batch of components, one time of day/type of environmental conditions, or worse, a combination of factors such as the way one operator uses a specific machine causes an issue when the sun is directly on it in the afternoon resulting is a specific batch of components to develop a fault etc etc etc

Al


----------



## Tempest UK (Jul 26, 2007)

I've only been able to test my L1 briefly, as it is a present so I can't really get my mitts on it yet  

Ran it on high for 5-6 minutes, no flickering or anything like that. So far so good. Hopefully I won't find out that it develops problems past the 5-6 minute mark  But to be honest, I never really use a torch on "high" (if it has multiple settings, or just a high output single-stage light) for that long anyway. Chances are, even if I had tested it and found a problem, I would never have encountered it in real life usage. Not to say this means SF shipping faulty L1s isn't a problem, of course.

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## enLIGHTenment (Jul 26, 2007)

BugOutGear_USA said:


> Only 1 out of 4 had the problems everyone else has experienced.



A 25% failure rate is absolutely not a matter of 'only.'


----------



## elgarak (Jul 26, 2007)

enLIGHTenment said:


> A 25% failure rate is absolutely not a matter of 'only.'





No one around here knows how many L1s were produced, sold and were found to be problematic.

As such, no one knows how serious the problem is, or even if there really is a problem.

Bugoutgear tested a small sample that is NOT large enough to justify any speculation.


----------



## luminata (Jul 26, 2007)

Well, I wish I could shrug off the loss of $400 flashlights like you Carrot, maybe it's my poor upbringing in the inner city that I just can't elevate my mental state to that point. I wish I could I would probably be much happier. I will try throwing a $20 bill out the car window tomorrow on the highway and see how it goes.

Just to clarify something, It's not that I am unable to wait for a resolution and return of the product. The main issue I have is the lack of accurate information and utter disregard/ignoring of what I think are critical questions ie. Will whatever is sent back be tested for the regulation/output dropoff issue being sporadically experienced on these lights? I see an instance of someone on here having the same issue with a replacement sent by SF . There is definitely a problem with an indeterminate number of the L1s and to have SF deny it, leaves the door open to receiving another problematic product resulting in having to ship that product back again. Just getting the light back from UPS can be a huge inconvenience if they require a signature I am not there 9 times out of 10 and thus have to call the shipper have them hold the item and rush to UPS 30 miles away between 7 and 8pm to get it. 
I am also not looking forward to sitting in a chair holding the light and staring at it for 60mins waiting for it to crap out, was that a flicker? oh no i guess not.....wait was that a flicker?
A simple response to my simple question would save alot of poeple alot of addtional aggravation. Is that such a wrong thing? you tell me :huh:

I don't think it really matters if its 50 lights or 5,000 with the problem./ who really wants to play spin the wheel of chance? It's clear there is some sort of problem is it not?


----------



## Kiessling (Jul 26, 2007)

luminata ... no one is denying that there is a problem. This is why we are here at CPF after all. To test, to find out.

The issue a few of us including me have is the perception of the problem and the reaction to it, including unrealistic expectations about what SF has to do. 

Apparently you are in pain, overreaction or not. CPF should be a fun and hobby place to visit.
Would it be of help if I sent you the money for your faulty L1 ... making it a freebie, once the replacement arrives? Would it ease the pain and calm the anger?
Let me know. Seriously.

bernie


----------



## carrot (Jul 26, 2007)

luminata said:


> Well, I wish I could shrug off the loss of $400 flashlights like you Carrot, maybe it's my poor upbringing in the inner city that I just can't elevate my mental state to that point. I wish I could I would probably be much happier. I will try throwing a $20 bill out the car window tomorrow on the highway and see how it goes.


I'm pretty sure I noted that it was not a small "loss" to me. But seeing as how there was nothing I could do I chose not to complain and just ride out the wait.

No, it is not wrong to expect a reasonable answer. Surefire has never been altogether very good at communicating with customers, and often leaves us in the dark, so it is almost expected that we don't know anything. There used to be a few Surefire people who would give us tidbits of information on the forums once in awhile but it seems they are either busy or have moved on. I have found that their customer service over the phone is much more responsive than through email.


----------



## luminata (Jul 26, 2007)

Thank you for the generous offer Keissling , a very generous gesture but I will be o.k.. I dont mean to come across as a hot head to you any of you guys, alot of it is my writing style . I guess I am just at a point in my life where I am tired of just taking it with a smile. Like I said earlier today , once again I will stop ranting on this thread , it seems some are afraid of pissing SF off and I can understand that and dont want to threaten CPF/SF relations on here . Hopefully we will all have our L1 resolution soon


----------



## BugOutGear_USA (Jul 26, 2007)

enLIGHTenment said:


> A 25% failure rate is absolutely not a matter of 'only.'



This statement was not meant to dismiss the problems with the L1's. I was just simply stating that out of the 4 we had on hand...1 of them had the problem(of course it had to be the one I put aside for myself). 

Hope that clears it up. I'm just as ticked as everyone else that got stuck with a less than perfect L1!

Regards,
Flavio


----------



## Riddick (Jul 26, 2007)

Well on a happy note . . . . .

The SureFire L1 Cree I receieved from BatteryJunction.com works fine, beam has yellowish tint but on high this thing is freaking bright and tight.

I can't believe that thing is 65 lumens, it seems like more to me, it friggin smoked an Inova T3 and they're suppose to be 80 lumen lights and all on one cell, amazing simply amazing:thumbsup:


----------



## BugOutGear_USA (Jul 26, 2007)

Size15's said:


> Hi Bill,
> I do not get the impression that CPF members are in any way a "huge market for SureFire". Far from it.
> CPF is more talk than action in terms of buying lots of lights. For example, if we as a community/club/group were avid flashlight buyers I think we would see far more "CPF branded" flashlights and specials. The CPF community have never managed to get SureFire or a SureFire Dealer to make us a CPF SureFire. There just isn't the market here on CPF to support the minimum order for special editions.
> 
> Al



Probably not their biggest market, but I guarantee that more CPF'ers own Porcupines, PKEF's, and the soon to be released Titan's than any other group SF sells to...all of which were limited runs. The 1st run of Titans have already sold out so who bought them? Not Mr. average Joe at Wallyworld or Target, not Mr. Federal Law Enforcement agency, not Uncle Sam, but most likely flashlight junkies like myself...a CPF'er!

Just My 2 Cents...

Flavio


----------



## The Toecutter (Jul 27, 2007)

I accidently ordered two L1's.

One I've have for a week. Serial numbers in the 1000's. Works fine.

Just got one today. Serial number 00021. I thought, that's not good....

Turned it on, waited 1 minute. You guessed it. Flicker city.

Interestingly enough, the one that works has a more yellowish beam with some rings, the crappy one is blueish with a cleaner beam.

So, I guess it goes back to Surefire for replacement.


----------



## Size15's (Jul 27, 2007)

BugOutGear_USA said:


> Probably not their biggest market, but I guarantee that more CPF'ers own Porcupines, PKEF's, and the soon to be released Titan's than any other group SF sells to...all of which were limited runs. The 1st run of Titans have already sold out so who bought them? Not Mr. average Joe at Wallyworld or Target, not Mr. Federal Law Enforcement agency, not Uncle Sam, but most likely flashlight junkies like myself...a CPF'er!
> 
> Just My 2 Cents...
> 
> Flavio


There are other SureFire fan groups. I'm willing to bet that SureFire fans in Asia buy more SureFires than CPF members do, and their appetite for the limited edition versions is far greater than ours is.
CPF is naturally a market for limited edition flashlights but when it comes to SureFires we are not at the top of the tree in terms of buying power.
Another thing - I strongly feel the amount of SureFires CPF members do buy is disproportionate to CPF members' knowledge and understanding of SureFire - especially SureFire's culture and perspective. In my view this is the source of much of the dissatisfaction and expectation management issues CPF tends to have [that SureFire fans in other groups don't seem to have]

Al


----------



## luminata (Jul 27, 2007)

A couple non-rant questions ,

Why is Surefire so adamant about not selling flashlights to certain countries but Japan is obviously a huge market for them?

Also, I begged the CS reps to keep my L1 head nomatter what else they did to the light in the process of fixing it because the beam was white and artifact free . They said they couldnt promise that which I understand but I have seen more than one mention on here ,with Toecutter being the most recent, of 2 or more L1s being compared and all having very extreme differences in tint and beam quality. When I told the SF rep why I wanted them to try and keep my L1 head thru repair/replacement procedures he stated "all the L1s will have a perfect beam like yours, it will be identical to the one you had if we do replace it. " I understand that Sf and many other manufacturers and most consumers do not place as much value on tint and beam "quality" as we here on CPF but , these diffreneces being mentioned seem much more than minor to me. yellow and blue tints and major rings/artifacts vs. non whatsover. 
So are you all L! owners seeing more good beam quality L1s or are they mostly not that great but useable in real world situations?


----------



## Size15's (Jul 27, 2007)

luminata said:


> Why is Surefire so adamant about not selling flashlights to certain countries but Japan is obviously a huge market for them?


SureFire understands the value of supporting Distributor/Dealer networks in countries and regions. One of the ways it does this is by preventing USA Dealers (and SureFire.com) undercutting the international markets (which is particular important what with the $ being so weak against the £ and I assume other currencies)
Japan and the rest of Asia have distributors with established dealer networks supplying the huge customer base SureFire has in Asia.

www.surefire.jp
www.surefirekorea.com
www.surefire.com.hk

Al


----------



## R11GS (Jul 27, 2007)

carrot said:


> ....Surefire has never been altogether very good at communicating with customers, and often leaves us in the dark....



He he.... He said Surefire leaves us in the dark! LOL


----------



## 700club (Jul 27, 2007)

Surefire has pulled the L1 for further testing. None will ship for approx 3 weeks. They are aware of the problem and are working on it. If yours is not up to snuff please contact them for repair.

Regards

700


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 27, 2007)

700club said:


> Surefire has pulled the L1 for further testing. None will ship for approx 3 weeks. They are aware of the problem and are working on it. If yours is not up to snuff please contact them for repair.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 700


How do you know that?


----------



## 700club (Jul 27, 2007)

I am a Surefire Dealer. I got news from my sales rep this morning.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jul 27, 2007)

700club said:


> I am a Surefire Dealer. I got news from my sales rep this morning.


Thanks. I'll be glad to hear when they go back on sale. I'm waiting for the red Cree L1 to come out, so I may be waiting awhile anyway.


----------



## MorpheusT1 (Jul 27, 2007)

I had the same problem with mine,

But dont think yours is ok after running 5min,10min or even 15 minutes.
My first started strobing after 20min+.
My second light showed no symptoms after 20 min but i wouldnt rest until i had ran down two Surefire 123`s with no problems so far.


OpticsHQ made it good with me and went through 2 Surefire L1`s before he found one that worked perfectly.


Mike said he would send all L1`s back to Surefire for testing.


Customer service is A+ for sure! :twothumbs


----------



## JNewell (Jul 27, 2007)

(question withdrawn)


----------



## EVAN_TAD (Jul 28, 2007)

Size15's said:


> SureFire manufactures in batches.
> Batches of machined, anodised and laser-etched components sit in trays waiting to be used to assemble whole products.
> 
> It is likely that A00001 is in the bottom tray of a stack of trays on a pallet having come from the laser-etching machine, and then those components in the top tray are used first by the assembly teams.
> ...



A00001 can't be on the bottom of a tray on some pallet as it is sitting on my desk.


----------



## Size15's (Jul 28, 2007)

EVAN_TAD said:


> A00001 can't be on the bottom of a tray on some pallet as it is sitting on my desk.


Nice :thumbsup:


----------



## Kilovolt (Jul 28, 2007)

EVAN_TAD said:


> A00001 can't be on the bottom of a tray on some pallet as it is sitting on my desk.


 
A picture would be very nice.


----------



## luminata (Jul 29, 2007)

Getting psyched up for another full week of waiting for who knows what we will be getting back from the WORLD CLASS LEADERS in Customer Service. 

That's right for the low low price of approx. $150.00 you too can become a member of the empty wallet and no flashlight to show for it club. Once a member you will be privy to absolutley no information . I know it's hard to conceive but for this small investment you too can enjoy getting your light back in 1-8 weeks if they dont lose it in the process and then have the enjoyment of sitting in front of the television and burning thru two expensive lithium batteries just to see if you are going to have the same problem you started with when you opened the package. Though if you do end up with another lemon you get the option to upgrade to our Titanium membership. (no you don't get a Titan with this upgraded membership, but you do get to pay for insured shipping back to SF again and another 1-8week waiting period. )

But no matter what membership you decide on, rest assured you will be kept in the dark with Surefires Plausible Deniability Clause which has been enacted during the short Cree L1 Membership enrollment period. Though you may swear there is a problem with your L1, it will be denied vehemently by all CS Reps and there will be no charge at all for this. That's right you get it for FREE!!

so act now and don't miss out !!!!! Times awasting:twothumbs


----------



## senna94 (Jul 29, 2007)

Good one luminata. However, you left out the part where you call and ask the cs rep. how big of a problem this is and they tell you "this is the first I have ever heard of it".


----------



## luminata (Jul 29, 2007)

No No . That's where the plausible deniability comes in. And it's FREE!! They won't charge you a blessed cent . I take it you are a member my good sir!!!! 
Well, welcome and hunker down for a gooood ... Looong wait my friend. You know, many never get the chance to scrape together large sums of money to spend and then get treated like a pestering gnat . You should consider it an honor to be treated like a nuisance and a moron by the greatest flashlight maker in the known, charted world. 

Bow to their greatness lowly consumer and be thankful for any scrap you get in return for the chance to give SF your hard earned dollars .

Maybe I will send an email mid-week for another informative update and a little more World Class slap down from SF .


----------



## digitaleos (Jul 30, 2007)

Just got off the phone with Surefires' world class customer service. They received my L1 on July 16th, and I was informed they are currently out of stock, and I'm looking at another two weeks before they have stock to replace my light.  So they've already had my light for two weeks, and I'm looking at two more weeks, WTF!


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Jul 30, 2007)

FWIW, my non-frosted L1 CREE arrived today. I ran it 20 mintues on high without a problem. Color's a bit warm, but overall I like it. Serial number is A00094.


----------



## senna94 (Jul 30, 2007)

digitaleos said:


> Just got off the phone with Surefires' world class customer service. They received my L1 on July 16th, and I was informed they are currently out of stock, and I'm looking at another two weeks before they have stock to replace my light.  So they've already had my light for two weeks, and I'm looking at two more weeks, WTF!



Them being out of stock is probably a good thing. Hopefully it means the new batches they produce will not have this problem!!!!!
:twothumbs


----------



## luminata (Jul 30, 2007)

That is great. So I get attitude and am told "I dont know where you got 4-6 weeks" , and now they are telling people they are "out of stock?" . I sent mine in around the same time as Digitalos. I dont care what they have to do to fix the problems I just want some [email protected]#$ accurate information. These people are a real piece of work. 

Oh, and maybe what I was told by SF CS will also help you put things into perspective Digitaloes "You're not the only person with a light in for repair you know". It sure helped put me in my place . You need to remember who SF is and your place in the scheme of things as a low end consumer my friend. 
And as we know, SF is always conservative on time estimates, so another 2-3 weeks for "restocking" means 3-6 weeks real world time . So Like I originally said to them, it looks like mid september at best . Hopefully we will get something before Halloween which would be nice for Trick or Treating. It is still an honor to have my $ tied up for 3 mos by Surefire though I must admit
Yes hope is a good thing Senna . You are a true optimist . I hope I remember all this if I ever have the insane urge to give my money to SF again.


And the "just wait SF will make it right someday" mentality just ain't gonna cut it for me brother.


----------



## seery (Jul 30, 2007)

Waiting a few weeks for a repair/replacement light is NO BIG DEAL folks.

Get on with life and when it shows up it shows up! 

I have several SF M6's with a few extras just in case one should have to go
in for a tune-up or is lost.

Buy a few of the L1's and your problems go away.

Both my L1 Cree's are perfect and I give Surefire a HUGE THANK YOU for
bringing to market such an incredible light. Sorry to hear a few folks are
having issues.


----------



## JNewell (Jul 30, 2007)

Well, since this thread seems to have a lot of complaints, I'd like to reassure folks that SF in indeed a stand-up company (again). I posted recently that they sent me a new tailcap for an original version L1 that was pure wear & tear...kinda like Ford replacing your tires after 100k, for free, I think. I had to call them again because my new E1e blew the bulb and left a vapor deposit of some kind on the inside of the window. A replacement is on its way, no questions asked. 

I feel badly for folks who got a defective L1, but isn't the best and most reasonable course for SF to stop production long enough to fix the problem, then send out a new light when they're available? There isn't much sense in sending out another potentially defective light. Would it be better if this hadn't happened? Absolutely? Have things like this happened before, and will they again? Absolutely.


----------



## digitaleos (Jul 30, 2007)

seery said:


> Waiting a few weeks for a repair/replacement light is NO BIG DEAL folks.
> 
> Get on with life and when it shows up it shows up!
> 
> ...


 

Good for you Seery, I've bought two L1's, and they were both pieces of poop.


----------



## Size15's (Jul 30, 2007)

I recognise that emotions are running high in this thread but it would be good for this thread to be able to stay open long enough for people to post about how their situations were resolved.

Lets see if we can throttle back please.


----------



## luminata (Jul 30, 2007)

I understand if there are issue that need to be worked out and I understand this may take time. 

The real problem is inconsistancies in information,policy and procedure with SF based on the day of the week and person you get on the phone/email.

Acknowledgement of the issue (it clearly must exist if they are pulling all of them off the shelves) is not too much to ask for when you are concerned about what you are going to get back. Like Ford who has recently sent me notification of bad spring cups on the front suspension on my Taurus. Now if they didnt tell me they were going to replace the things in the letter they sent me what question do you suppose I might ask them when I bring it in for warranty repair considering these things are supposedly failing and causing accidents while driving? 

And how many of us poor saps can afford multiples of one model of Sf . If thats what you have to do to always have a working light in your hands then there really is a problem with SF . But It would be nice to have six working L1s,4 working e2ls and 10 or 20 e1ls and maybe a cpl good ole L4s in there too.


----------



## CallMeDave (Jul 31, 2007)

In the end, I returned my L1 (#A00081) to BrightGuy for a refund, due to the misshaped beam.

The photo below doesn't reveal it as well as the eye does, but note the arc of the circle between about 10 and 11 o'clock, where things are squashed towards the center. It's real annoying in person.

The red circle of the hotspot was calculated by temporarily adjusting input levels in Photoshop.







Maybe I'll try another one in a few months, when they get the kinks worked out.


Dave


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Jul 31, 2007)

CallMeDave said:


> In the end, I returned my L1 (#A00081) to BrightGuy for a refund, due to the misshaped beam.



I'm all for getting what you paid for and such like things, but...

Are your expectations entirely realistic? That beam looks fine to me. If you're a painter by trade and you're using the L1 to inspect white paint jobs that your employees are doing, then fine, this light isn't for you. Otherwise, was it substantially worse in person than in that photo?


----------



## LiteFan (Jul 31, 2007)

JNewell said:


> Well, since this thread seems to have a lot of complaints, I'd like to reassure folks that SF in indeed a stand-up company (again). I posted recently that they sent me a new tailcap for an original version L1 that was pure wear & tear...kinda like Ford replacing your tires after 100k, for free, I think. I had to call them again because my new E1e blew the bulb and left a vapor deposit of some kind on the inside of the window. A replacement is on its way, no questions asked.
> 
> I feel badly for folks who got a defective L1, but isn't the best and most reasonable course for SF to stop production long enough to fix the problem, then send out a new light when they're available? There isn't much sense in sending out another potentially defective light. Would it be better if this hadn't happened? Absolutely? Have things like this happened before, and will they again? Absolutely.


 
Agreed they recently sent me a new tailcap for my 6P that I purchased seems like 10+ years ago (laser products cap with round bezel). Seems all we do is drool over new Surfire lights, get impatient while waiting, ***** when they are late, and expect perfection. We give them no slack...and we should...IMO.


----------



## luminata (Jul 31, 2007)

I dont know if anyone has noticed but every great Surefire response related in these threads seems to be A TAILCAP. SF is fantastic at sending out Tailcaps. AWESOME!!!!!!!!! They have the tailcap replacement down to a science . Quite impressive. If I ever need a tailcap I know where to go for sure. Now how about they work on the rest of the package they tout about in all their advertising. :twothumbs


----------



## city cop (Aug 1, 2007)

luminata said:


> I dont know if anyone has noticed but every great Surefire response related in these threads seems to be A TAILCAP. SF is fantastic at sending out Tailcaps. AWESOME!!!!!!!!! They have the tailcap replacement down to a science . Quite impressive. If I ever need a tailcap I know where to go for sure. Now how about they work on the rest of the package they tout about in all their advertising. :twothumbs


If your that unhappy with Surefire, don't buy them anymore! Lots of China made lights for ya buy. Personaly I'll buy the Surefire since my life can and does depend on them.


----------



## JNewell (Aug 1, 2007)

> I dont know if anyone has noticed but every great Surefire response related in these threads seems to be A TAILCAP.


 
First, 'tain't so...I've got a new bezel coming, as posted above...and have had bezels replaced on other occasions...but to the real point, there is a reason for this. In general, these things are so well designed and built that that's the only thing that goes wrong! 

Surefire's not perfect, but a one man crusade doesn't change the basic facts about their excellent products and customer service, even if you post it on the internet.


----------



## luminata (Aug 1, 2007)

Many, Many people are very happy with SF and that is great . :twothumbs

And good advice for sure to not buy SF anymore which is exactly what I intend on doing . 
I have made a concerted effort to buy American in all aspects of my life in recent years but USA based companies are not making it easy . I broke down and went with Honda for my next vehicle after a blown head gasket on my Taurus at 80,000miles. 
I left SF for terrible CS a ways back, returned for the L1 Cree and got burned again. I will not go to anything Made in China if I can help it though. So that doesnt leave me much in the flashlight world. I'm not gonna argue with Sf fans for sure though . Your beliefs are strong and your patience and pockets deep. I cant compete with that !!!


----------



## CallMeDave (Aug 1, 2007)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> Are your expectations entirely realistic? That beam looks fine to me.



Yes. 

As I noted, the low pixel dimension, compressed jpeg taken against a living room wall in less then optimal conditions does not show the issue as obviously as the eye sees. It's not just an issue of spill; the torch simply does not provide a balanced 360 degrees of light.

None of my other LEDs, Luxon or Cree, exhibit this behavior. They may not have perfectly razor sharp circles of light, but they don't look like a gibbous moon, either.

Compressing the input levels of the image suggests the imbalance occurring at the very center of the hotspot. The white pixels in this image sequence directly corresponds to what the beam looks like in real life.

(I don't have access to this same camera, and I haven't yet tried this on other lights, so please consider this to be just a rough attempt at image analysis):

(Below: shadow=249, highlight=254)





(Below: shadow=249, highlight=253)





(Below: shadow=249, highlight=252)





(Below: shadow=249, highlight=251)


----------



## Warp (Aug 1, 2007)

seery said:


> Buy a few of the L1's and your problems go away.


 

Sorry, but no.

I, like many people I am sure, don't have $400+ to blow on a handfull of identical flashlights...no matter how great they are suposed to be (or how great they turn out to be)


----------



## Gimmy (Aug 2, 2007)

Paying over a $100 for a flashlight, going thru the trouble of returning it and still have to wait a long time before being able to play with it again..... this sucks no matter how you look at it. But at least they are trying and will fix it for you. Not all company or dealers will do that. Not trying to change the topic but below is a link to my experience with a $300+ dollar knife. BTW, I believe Surefire is a good company. 


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388672&highlight=mpc


----------



## luminata (Aug 2, 2007)

Hey Gimmy. Good related thread on a defective product. 

One huge similarity I noticed between the two situations is the guy who sold you the knife told you "there is nothing wrong with your knife , that is how it's supposed to be". when you and everyone else can see there is defintely a problem with that knife. The Cs person you dealt with also spent a significant amount of time arguing with you, disputing your claims and not solving your problems but actually just frustrating and upsetting you. 

When SF is called about the L1 Cree and asked about the problem some are experiencing they claim ignorance , when they do know of the problem. They also , when asked too many questions (it seems there is a limit of one ) become beligerent and slightly hostile and after wasting time with slap downs and such will proceed to ignore any other questions other than , did you get the product back in your hands ?.

Is SF a "good" company? yes I think overall that they are. I believe they do have some issues though , just like any place will , no one is perfect.

This L1 problem has brought to light many of the issue SF still continues to have in Customer Service with seriuos attitude problems of the staff and supplying inaccurate information to the customer.


----------



## Warp (Aug 2, 2007)

I, for one, just ordered a couple of Fenix lights instead of a Surefire.

The lights may (or may not) be as good, but I know that through Fenix-Store I can count on better customer service...and spend less money!

Surefire: take notice!


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 2, 2007)

Warp said:


> Surefire: take notice!



No offense, but they don't care what _you_ buy. They have gov't contracts and national chains like Bass Pro, Cabela's and others who carry their line and not Fenix. Don't get me wrong, I like Fenix too. My P2D CE exceeded my expectations in many ways. However, so did my Cree L1. :shrug:


----------



## senna94 (Aug 2, 2007)

I think it is funny that you should mention Bass Pro shops. Yesterday, i went in to the local Bass Pro Shop and found 2 L1s. One was the previous version and the other was the new Cree version. I took a gamble and went ahead and bought the Cree L1. When I got to the parking lot I turned it on and was impressed with the lights size and output even in broad daylight. I then did the dreaded run test. Sure enough within 4 minutes it started blinking. I called Surefire from my vehicle and told them about it. They offered to have it picked up and pay for S&H both ways. While impressed, I opted to walk right back in the store and return the malfunctioning light. I hated to do it because they didn't have anymore, but I think I would have hated waiting for it to be fixed even more.


----------



## Warp (Aug 2, 2007)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> No offense, but they don't care what _you_ buy. They have gov't contracts and national chains like Bass Pro, Cabela's and others who carry their line and not Fenix. Don't get me wrong, I like Fenix too. My P2D CE exceeded my expectations in many ways. However, so did my Cree L1. :shrug:


 

Then why do they even bother selling to the general public?

Are you authorized to speak on behalf of Surefire?

If they do not care, at all, what I buy that's as good a reason as any NO TO. If they don't care about me, and they let it show, why on earth would I do business with them?



I do like Surefire lights. I just don't like to pay for them and I dread getting a lemon from them.

I will likey adopt a "let other CPF members be the guine pigs before I make the purchase" approach.

I really do like Surefire lights, and I want more (all I have is a stinkin' G2)....I just don't want to get hung out to dry waiting on slow/poor customer service!

BTW: The one and only Surefire light I have had to be sent back for a repair/replacement when I got it wet. All those ads where they show hteir products in a cave, you'd think it could handle quick dip in the swimming pool.


----------



## Vinnyp (Aug 2, 2007)

city cop said:


> If your that unhappy with Surefire, don't buy them anymore! Lots of China made lights for ya buy. Personaly I'll buy the Surefire since my life can and does depend on them.


 
Not sure I would be happy to be anywhere where my life depended on a flashlight but after a lot of tests we have just switched away from Surefire to Streamlight for our weapon lights because of all the problems we have had with SF. No idea what our plans are for L2 and L4s



Valpo Hawkeye said:


> No offense, but they don't care what _you_ buy. They have gov't contracts and national chains like Bass Pro, Cabela's and others who carry their line and not Fenix. Don't get me wrong, I like Fenix too. My P2D CE exceeded my expectations in many ways. However, so did my Cree L1. :shrug:


 
Well they just lost this "govt contract"


----------



## Art Vandelay (Aug 2, 2007)

senna94 said:


> I think it is funny that you should mention Bass Pro shops. Yesterday, i went in to the local Bass Pro Shop and found 2 L1s. One was the previous version and the other was the new Cree version. I took a gamble and went ahead and bought the Cree L1. When I got to the parking lot I turned it on and was impressed with the lights size and output even in broad daylight. I then did the dreaded run test. Sure enough within 4 minutes it started blinking. I called Surefire from my vehicle and told them about it. They offered to have it picked up and pay for S&H both ways. While impressed, I opted to walk right back in the store and return the malfunctioning light. I hated to do it because they didn't have anymore, but I think I would have hated waiting for it to be fixed even more.


I bet the big chain stores don't like giving refunds for defective products. Some amount of returns are probably acceptable. 

I don't know what the percentage of L1's are returned. Threads like this make it seem like they are all bad. I doubt that. It probably seems like that if you got a bad one.


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 2, 2007)

Warp said:


> Then why do they even bother selling to the general public?
> 
> Are you authorized to speak on behalf of Surefire?



Why bother with asinine questions? They sell to the general public, through retailers, because, as a group, that's a large market, a place to sell lots of lights. However, their 'real' customers are the retailers, unless you buy from www.surefire.com . Of course, I know that in the end, the end user is responsible for the market, but a handful of pissed customers isn't likely to cause Bass Pro to reduce their national order.

And, no, I'm not authorized to speak for SureFire.


----------



## senna94 (Aug 2, 2007)

Actually, I showed them what the light was doing and they were understanding and appreciative of the info I gave them regarding the light. Their only regret was not having anymore. Financially it is no sweat off their back as they send them back to their distributor for 100% credit or another light.


----------



## Campdavid (Aug 2, 2007)

While I do not own the new L1 yet, I do have a collection of Surefire lights. The sad truth is that I have had trouble with every single one except for my G2 (their cheapest light...funny). Most problems were tailcaps but my U2 flooded at just the hint of rain. In the end the problems have all been addressed (except I am still not thrilled with the lens in my U2) and generally in days, not weeks. 

Sadly I think I am going to take the advice floating around here and simply stop buying SF lights....let them focus on the military....I am done. It no longer makes sense to spend so much on a product that will undoubtedly have a bad tailcap, could leak and now flickers....

Funny, I have had a CMG Infinity Ultra for years....use it all the time....cheap and unstoppable....


----------



## luminata (Aug 2, 2007)

well, tomorrow will be 2 1/2 weeks for my L1 and not a word . and I dont expect to have it back any time soon. In fact if I use the past 2 experiences I have had with SF warranty repair , I am gonna have to call them after about a month to see if they have lost/forgotten/misplaced/dropped the ball on it . Then after that and waiting another month I will call them again and have to go thru it all over again where they go uhm,ahhh,uhm,ahhh.......we seem to have overlooked it ssomehow uhm aahhh. 
I really am wondering what people are doing/saying to get things fixed and returned in a cpl days and/or to get shipping to and from covered for warranty repair on a brand new out of the box light. 
I have never "lost it " on Sf Customer Service reps yet I continually get treated like crapola. And yes I know I am annoying them by calling/writing more than once in a month period and asking pestering questions about what they are doing with my light so I deserve it , I know I know .....

I mention the 2 and 1/2 week mark because I was told in a "snippy attitude" of the SF CS rep "I dont know where you got 4-6weeks" "we average 1-2 weeks on returns". 

Okee dokee Bossman 1-2weeks it is


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 2, 2007)

luminata said:


> In fact if I use the past 2 experiences I have had with SF warranty repair...



Do you know the old saying "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me?" Maybe it was foolish of you to continue to patronize a company that has consistantly failed to meet your expectations. Are you surprised that you're pissed with SF this time? 

I've had one dealing with SF repair. I sent in a KL1 that would flicker right at the end of the battery and an L4 with a donut. I sent them in at the same time, so I consider it one collective dealing. It took a solid 5 weeks, but in the end I had a donut-less L4 and a reliable KL1. Let's face it, if you frequent this board, you have other lights to use in the interim. Be patient and start learning from your "mistakes".


----------



## JNewell (Aug 3, 2007)

Another thing that's being totally missed in this thread is that virtually every brand of light that's manufactured in any quantity has reports of problems, often many, here. Surefire is far from alone in this regard.


----------



## luminata (Aug 3, 2007)

You can call me a fool and bestow shame upon me, you can say I should go play with my other lights like a good boy. The argument that all manufacturers have lemons that sneak thru the line is very true . 
I also understand that it will take a significant amount of time to get my L1 back . 
I posted my wait time in conjunction with Sf's remarks to illustrate their inability or desire to give accurate information. I will more than likely post an update next Friday also just to warn you 
I did indeed cease to purchase SF lights after previous experiences with them . But in my desire to be somewhat patriotic and support U.S. businesses and our weakening economy I decided to give them another try with the L1 which seemed to be a promising light.


----------



## IanH83 (Aug 3, 2007)

I know this has nothing to do with lights but as an example of customer service I recently had a problem with my xbox 360. The DVD drive was faulty and it was a known issue with the first batch of 360s made. I phoned microsoft. They arranged and payed for UPS to come and pick my xbox360 up. They said 2 weeks and you'll have it back. I phoned after 15 days and a recorded message said repairs were taking longer and the current turn around time was 25 days. After 28 days and no 360 I phoned again and said where is it? They said they had no record of it arriving. I had to scan my UPS receipt and email it to them. Within a week I had a brand new 360, an apology, 2 months free xbox live gold membership to cover what I had lost + a bit more and I wasn't out of pocket a penny (Up a bit because of the extra 1 month membership). They phoned a couple of days after I received it and offered me a choice of freebies as compensation for it taking so long. I got a free wireless controller as well ($60 over here). I am happy - they made a mistake and made up for it.

One thing that's different about the 360 and the L1 is that although the L1 like other surefire lights has a high build quality, they make a nice little profit on each one sold - the mark up is reasonably high. The 360 is sold at a price below what it costs to make it.

I have ordered an L1 that hasn't arrived yet, I hope it works.


----------



## IanH83 (Aug 3, 2007)

Why can't SureFire say they'll pay for the shipping back to them of all L1s with this problem? It would cost them the profit they made on that L1 (or much less) which seems fair.


----------



## WildChild (Aug 3, 2007)

Take note that many people also have horror stories about Microsoft support service! This is what we get dealing with big companies. And usually, if the guy you get on phone isn't very helpful, calling back usually helps. Virtually any support service have well trained guys and poor/stupid/idiots just folloing a list of instructions and not telling they don't know what to do saying that everything's well... For my part, I had a good service with Microsoft. The headset I received with my XBOX 360 was broken. I called and next day before noon I had a new headset!  Enough of thread hijacking for now! Let's return to the main discussion (SF support service).



IanH83 said:


> I know this has nothing to do with lights but as an example of customer service I recently had a problem with my xbox 360. The DVD drive was faulty and it was a known issue with the first batch of 360s made. I phoned microsoft. They arranged and payed for UPS to come and pick my xbox360 up. They said 2 weeks and you'll have it back. I phoned after 15 days and a recorded message said repairs were taking longer and the current turn around time was 25 days. After 28 days and no 360 I phoned again and said where is it? They said they had no record of it arriving. I had to scan my UPS receipt and email it to them. Within a week I had a brand new 360, an apology, 2 months free xbox live gold membership to cover what I had lost + a bit more and I wasn't out of pocket a penny (Up a bit because of the extra 1 month membership). They phoned a couple of days after I received it and offered me a choice of freebies as compensation for it taking so long. I got a free wireless controller as well ($60 over here). I am happy - they made a mistake and made up for it.
> 
> One thing that's different about the 360 and the L1 is that although the L1 like other surefire lights has a high build quality, they make a nice little profit on each one sold - the mark up is reasonably high. The 360 is sold at a price below what it costs to make it.
> 
> I have ordered an L1 that hasn't arrived yet, I hope it works.


----------



## luminata (Aug 3, 2007)

Well, in my past unpleasant experiences with SF they NEVER tried to compensate for shortcomings on their part. Even after forgetting /losing my orders/requests TWICE they still took another 2 weeks after that to get the stuff to me. It's nice to see other companies see their customers in a different light and also strive above and beyond to rectify a situation for a customer. 
Simply shipping out tailcaps to replace faulty ones (which seems to be a very common occurance with SF) doesnt exactly cut it and with the seemingly automatic response from them on tailcap problems is kinda disturbing. It seems like they need to redesign their tailcaps (Z57/Z59). After perusing the threads on CPF it seems like every SF owner ( I know not everyone) has put in for a faulty tailcap . Wouldnt a redesign ,tweak in engineering or better QC on the tailcaps be cheaper in the long run than sending out replacements as a regular business practice? Or are these things a dime a dozen and so cheap for them it's like sending out novelty pens at a trade show? (which may be why they fail so much?)
It just amazes me on how so many extoll the incredible performance of SF in replacing faulty parts lickity- split on lights which are supposed to be the "best in the world production lights right out of the box" used by professionals world wide. :shrug:

(ok now 20 others can post how they have never had a problem with THEIR SFs )


----------



## dcowboyscr (Aug 3, 2007)

Well after reading this thread I was apprehensive to say the least about buying a new version Cree L1.

However, I decided to take a chance and bought the only one down at the Bass Pro Shop. The light is pristine, fit and finish are Perfect, matching HAIII, great tinted white beam, perfect hotspot with ample spill for my uses. 

Immediately after I bought it I tested it for 40 minutes straight and no flickering. So tonight I loaded up a fresh Surefire CR123 and did a full runtime test. The light got a little warm but never too hot to handle. I didn't cool it at all just set it on my desk. It completed all 93 minutes of the test with no flickering and it didn't step down in light output(just a little) until 1 hour and twenty minutes when the battery was toward the end.

For reference the serial number is A01792. Also the lens is frosted. No rattles either.

I compared the L1 on high(rated 65 lumens) to my friend's p2d on turbo(advertised at 130 lumens by Fenix) and was surprised at the the L1s brightness(and this on a cell that had around 50 minutes on high at that point). I thought the Fenix would blow it away but there was very little difference in brightness.

I'm very pleased with this light and it'll probably be my edc along with my ccw.

To everyone who got a bad L1 I sympathize hang in there. It'll be a great light when you get your replacement L1 that works as designed.

Also for the record, the only problem I've ever had With a Surefire was a clicky switch on a E2E and one on a U2 going bad. Surefire promptly sent me a replacement no questions asked. I've been buying Surefires since the 6P first came out and have had great luck with them.


----------



## IanH83 (Aug 4, 2007)

Thanks for the post, I would feel a lot better if all the people with good L1s would post here, as it is it's probably massively more likely people with problems will post and I will grow more and more worried about the L1 possibly somewhere over the Atlantic on its way to me as I write this.


----------



## litlmh (Aug 4, 2007)

Hey guys,

Been lurking here for a while, but never really posted. 

Got my new L1, ran it on high for 76 minutes on the battery it came with, no problems.  (I played with it before, so I didn't run it for 90 minutes). When I shut it off, it was hot, but still possible to hold. Just left it running on the desk, no other cooling. My serial # is A00038.


----------



## Energie (Aug 4, 2007)

My L1 CREE from OpticsHQ works without problems.
Serial # A00479

Current from the fresh battery 0,74 A.

Output start (on high) = 100%
Output after 30 min - 100%, 60 min - 97%, 90 min - 93%, 100 min - 86%, 120 min - 40%

Temperature head (max): 45 C / 113 F


----------



## IanH83 (Aug 4, 2007)

My L1 finally arrived today, I really couldn't be bothered to stare at the beam on high for ages but I did it for around 7 or 8 minutes on high with no flickering at all, I have also been playing with it for a few hours running it for 5 - 10 minutes on high at a time so it's slowly getting warmer bit by bit as I can't put it down and leave it alone and there's no sign of problems at all.

When you press the tail clicky half way to get low it can flicker a bit as it turns on but I am certain it's only a slight flicker as the connection is being made and nothing to do with the problems posted here.

Edit: Well as others have done I spoke too soon, flickers like the rest. It took quite a while to kick in but is definitely an unacceptable strobe.


----------



## JNewell (Aug 4, 2007)

Mine has no issues after running on high for 2x cells. However, I will say that it would be nice to hear from Surefire what the nature of the problem is when the dust settles on this so that we can all evaluate the early-shipped lights that _do_ work.


----------



## IanH83 (Aug 4, 2007)

Well I'll add that when I did decide to test it this is what happened: I put the light on high and left it on the desk next to me. About 7 or 8 minuted later I'm sure I noticed it dim in brightness slightly - it only happened once as if switching from 65 lumens to I would guess 55. Then after another minute or so it began to strobe, that is it would pulse up to 65 lumens (or maybe more, it was hard to tell) for a fraction of a second, then back down to 55, then repeat after 6 or 7 seconds. The gap between each pulse got shorter and shorter until it was one pulse every second or so. I then turned it off.


----------



## IanH83 (Aug 4, 2007)

Does anyone have any recommendations regarding what I should do? Should I get it back to surefire asap? or would it be more wise to keep hold of it for a little while until they fix the problems?


----------



## senna94 (Aug 4, 2007)

Welcome to the club............that is exactly the problem being described here. It is kind of like the Hotel California. You can check out anytime you want but you can never leave!!!!!!!!! Good luck in getting it fixed/replaced. If your retailer will take it back I would send it back to them and get your money back. Once they fix the problem you will be able to buy one of the new batches that do not have this problem. Otherwise you will have to wait 6 to 8 weeks to get it back from Surefire. It is my understanding that Surefire is not currently shipping any until they have fixed the problem and implemented the changes to the new lights being produced. This should take about a month or so...............just a guess.


----------



## digitaleos (Aug 4, 2007)

IanH83 said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations regarding what I should do? Should I get it back to surefire asap? or would it be more wise to keep hold of it for a little while until they fix the problems?


 

I would send it back as soon as possible. They've had my light for over two weeks now, and I'm not expecting it back for about another week and a half. I was informed they were out of stock, and it would be two weeks before they could send me a replacement, that was Monday, I think. It seems they are waiting for the new lights with the correct fix, before they send any back.

Chris


----------



## JNewell (Aug 4, 2007)

IMO...if my light were bad, I'd just send it back to the dealer and get my money back. Then I'd wait to see how this all shakes out. It's hard to say how long that will really take, because we don't know what the problem is. 

In the meantime, mine has gotten a pretty thorough burn-in and works fine, so I'm keeping it.


----------



## IanH83 (Aug 4, 2007)

I'm not risking sending it back to the retailer, he's an ***. I emailed him describing the problem shortly after I paid (I discovered this thread just after paying - I gave him a link to it) and he emailed me back (BEFORE he had posted it) saying "I haven't heard of any problems, just email me if you have a problem", even though I described the problem and suggested either a refund and I'll buy an L1 off him in a few months when they are fixed... or if he could just open it and test it first to make sure he's not sending me a faulty product. He decided just to send the faulty product.

I'll phone SureFire on monday, I would rather get someone on the phone then have someone not read my email properly and send a standard reply.

I'm not too worried about the wait I just don't want another faulty one (and I would rather not pay for shipping back to the US). If they are not sending any more out until it's fixed that's a good sign that it's safe to send it back now.

Does anyone know if there is an alternate place to ship your SureFire if you live in the UK? They seem to have a freephone number just for people in UK/Germany, but when I phoned it the pre-recorded voice said phone back Monday in an American accent.


----------



## JNewell (Aug 4, 2007)

Too bad about the dealer. 

If you're not in a hurry, definitely send it back. But phone them, don't email. And, I always get best results if my approach is "I had such high expectations, is there anything you can do to help?" rather than "you guys are jerks, your product is ____ and your customer service is laughable," which seems to be the line some like to take.


----------



## IanH83 (Aug 4, 2007)

I've just been to the SureFire website and in the last day or so it has changed... where it used to say get the L1 from a retailer, it now allows you to add it to your cart and buy it on the SureFire site. Either they have decided to start selling faulty lights on their own site, or they have fixed the problem, or they are taking orders but not sending them.


----------



## IanH83 (Aug 4, 2007)

God I have to stay off that SureFire site, I felt the urge to buy another light.

I managed to resist as I would rather wait for another leap in the technology before buying such an expensive light.


----------



## luminata (Aug 4, 2007)

Sorry to hear you have become an L1 Cree dud member Ian. :shakehead

Things are definitely even more complicated for you being overseas. 

Great advice from Jnnewell!! Definitely dont call them jerks and such !!!! There are many, many , some lurk amongst CPF who seem to think this approach is the best way to get results . 
Also a couple more points of advice
1) When you do call/email please limit yourself to one question only .. more can be taken as pestering a person already extremely busy processing repair requests. Also , do not waste your one question with any thing like "will you be testing my light for the non-existant problem some have been having , before you return it to me?" This question will either be ignored completely or the response will be "this is the first I have heard of it" and then you will be out of questions.
2) Be prepared to wait. and wait. and wait. After about 1 and 1/2 months when you havnt seen or heard a thing you can by then safely call again and not be seen as a pest . They will either tell you it's still in the works or they have misplaced it. At this point just sit back relax and wait, and wait , and wait ... after another cpl months repeat step two again. 

through it all keep cool, show respect to your SF CS Agent (cause he has you by the proverbial you know what), expect information to be inaccurate and contradictory with a little bit of attitude mixed in and above all else know that someday you will indeed have a fully functional L1 Cree in your hands (after you run a cpl expensive cr123 primaries thru it just to see if it is indeed fixed before you can trust it) 
Hey , what did you expect for $150 bucks ...Perfection?


----------



## JNewell (Aug 4, 2007)

I don't think you have to wait that long. Last time I had a part sent, they told me "if you don't have it in six days, feel free to call to check on the status." Since I'm in MA and they're in CA and ground shipping is 5 days, that meant he was estimating it'd be shipped the next day.

Granted, that ain't happ'nin' with this situation. My guess (and that's all it is) is that something got overlooked in either design or production. Sometimes things like this happen because the production people make what they think is an inconsequential departure from the original spec. Dunno. In any case, this problem could certainly involve a wait. Frustrating, but worth it, we hope.

As far as perfection goes...dunno about that either. Our most recent Ford (2003), which cost many, many times $150, has never really worked right. It's annoying, but it happens...perfection, on the other hand...seldom happens.


----------



## 270winchester (Aug 4, 2007)

I talked to them yeasterday. The CS lady told me that they are working hard to sort the issue out and should be sending the warranty repaires out next week.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Aug 5, 2007)

luminata, I've been following this thread for quite a while, and it is sort of unsettling to me. I understand your frustration, and believe me, I am not about to rush out and get a new Cree L1. I was initially interested in the feed back that 270winchester was inviting about the L1, but the thread has mostly been taken over by you. Maybe it is time for you to back off and just let others report their concerns about their L1's. 

Bill


----------



## adamr999 (Aug 6, 2007)

Bullzeyebill said:


> luminata, I've been following this thread for quite a while, and it is sort of unsettling to me. I understand your frustration, and believe me, I am not about to rush out and get a new Cree L1. I was initially interested in the feed back that 270winchester was inviting about the L1, but the thread has mostly been taken over by you. Maybe it is time for you to back off and just let others report their concerns about their L1's.
> 
> Bill



+1


----------



## afraidofdark (Aug 6, 2007)

Trying not to be a silent and lazy owner of a good L1 Cree so I'll post my test results: on high for 25+ minutes, strong, warm hotspot, solid as a rock.

Sure is hard trying to use the computer, with that little supernova at the corner of your peripheral vision. 

Oh, details: A01857, lens every so slightly frosted.


----------



## luminata (Aug 6, 2007)

Sorry to annoy you Billyboy and Adam.:kiss: I'll give it a rest ...for now


----------



## woodfluter (Aug 7, 2007)

This may belong on this thread, or possibly not. Feel free to holler if not...

I had previously tested my Cree L1 for 5 minute periods with a SF cell. Tonight I tested it for 55 minutes on high continuously while running with the dogs. The results weren't quite what I expected, considering this is supposed to be regulated - but it could be a battery issue. Please inform me if you can!

Being the cheap and possibly foolish ******* that I am, I used a Battery Station lithium cell for this (starting voltage 3.6V) instead of a SF. That may be significant. Sorry for the lack of brightness readings - this started out as a simple "flicker or no flicker" test - I am a scientist after all!

(1) I was holding the light only by a lanyard attached to the clip and to the front of the light to avoid thermal issues of any sort, helpful or otherwise. I frequently checked warmth by touching the light with my lips, which are more sensitive to temperature than hands. The head section never became warmer. The battery section warmed noticeably, but never became remotely "hot". For the record, the 5 minute tests with SF batteries had the exact same thermal results.

*Question:* Is this a sign of very good heat dissipation by SF's engineers, drawing heat away from critical components? Certainly a very different pattern that what I've experienced with any other light. But how on earth could this square with other posters' observations like "Temperature head (max): 45 C / 113 F" and "When I shut it off, it was hot, but still possible to hold" ?? Does this mean there is something wrong with mine?

(2) During the run, the light dimmed gradually. No flickering at any point, and no step-down. I briefly tested the low beam at intervals and it appeared to be dimming gradually as well. By 29 minutes, high was getting quite dim and low was barely usable even close up. At end of test, side by side center beam comparison at a distant target showed Inova T3 was at least 4x brighter, although pre-test the Cree L1 was significantly brighter. My Luxeon L-1 on low was far brighter than the Cree on low.

*Question:* Although the regulation may be less than perfect on both high and low (see www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2076061&postcount=1If), should this light be dimming continuously from around 20 minutes into a test, on both high and low settings, if it is regulated at all? Or is this just a battery issue? Should I consider returning the light or testing further?

(3) Subjectively comparing in dark room, the Cree L1 on high with the used BS cell appeared only a little brighter than the low setting with either a new SF or BS cell. End voltage was 1.73V (!) After 5 minutes rest 2.66V, after 32 min 2.81 and the light was now just a little dimmer on high than the T3.

*Question:* Is this entirely a battery issue? Would the results have been different if I used one of my Surefire cells?

*Final Question:* Was this light ever intended to be used for protracted periods on high? If not, should Surefire have stated this? (For the record, I really like almost everything about this light, at least the one I have.)

Sorry for the length, and any insight is gratefully welcomed.

- Bill


----------



## half-watt (Aug 7, 2007)

woodfluter said:


> *Question:* Is this entirely a battery issue? Would the results have been different if I used one of my Surefire cells?




can't answer that for your particular case. i only know from observing first-hand my own experiences that batteries CAN make a world of difference. i've had runtimes as low as 50%-60% with "el-cheapo" cells (NOT a Brand name, though with the way they performed, perhaps it should have been - at least my expectations would have been lower!!!). also, i've found "el-cheap" cells seem(??? my impression based upon performance) to sometimes AGE FASTER.

it just may be that the quality of the cheaper cells is NOT as good??? meaning, that some perform rather well, but a greater percentage are substandard. don't know.

i've learned to only spend money on the best quality Primary cells whether CR123A, AA, AAA, C, D, 9V, Li coin cells, alkaline or Lithium. i've had fewer problems that way. 

now, currently employ the same rule (most, not all) of the time for Li-ion cells too. only deviate when the better cells won't fit in an application.

it seems with batteries one very often gets what they pay for.

however, QB on his FLR website has some relatively good reviews of lower cost CR123A cells. there seems to be some variation in their performance based upon current draw though.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Aug 7, 2007)

Woodfluter, I'd recommend reading some of of Quickbeam's posts on batteries. He has done some independent battery testing. He is not selling batteries and he knows what he is talking about. Personally, I prefer to see empirical tests than hear anecdotes. It can be easy to just accept the marketing. It can be very persuasive.

When a flashlight company sold a light they used to be able to sell a steady stream of replacement bulbs. Now LEDs are popular, so that cuts into the bulb sales. To make matters worse, other companies have started selling discount replacement bulbs. 

Battery sales are one way for flashlight companies to make a little extra. There is nothing wrong with that. If they want to say they have great batteries and the competition makes bad ones, I say "prove it".


----------



## woodfluter (Aug 8, 2007)

Thanks for the replies, and I know and agree with what you both said about batteries. However, and I mean this in the nicest way, I'm not sure the point of the post was understood. It boils down to this:

(a) If the light is regulated, and the initial brightness, even with an inferior battery, is the same as that with a good (e.g. Surefire cell), should you see gradual continuous dimming on both high and low, almost from the start? With my HDS EDC, I can insert the same kind of battery and the brightness at any level will remain the same. If the voltage drops too low to power one level, the next lowest level will still be powered at full brightness. That was what surprised me about the L1. It wasn't acting like that at all.

(b) Heat. If other users were saying the head was heating up, even after a few minutes, and mine wasn't heating at all, why? Comparison with other lights of known throw indicates that nothing was wrong with the output. Shorter runs on high with good Surefire cells weren't heating mine up at the head either. At all. What gives?

- Bill


----------



## litlmh (Aug 8, 2007)

woodfluter said:


> (b) Heat. If other users were saying the head was heating up, even after a few minutes, and mine wasn't heating at all, why? Comparison with other lights of known throw indicates that nothing was wrong with the output. Shorter runs on high with good Surefire cells weren't heating mine up at the head either. At all. What gives?
> 
> - Bill



Well, with my light, I haven't exactly timed it, but I remember my thoughts while trying it out. I was holding my light for the entire time while playing with it.

For the first 6-7 minutes or so, it did not feel very warm. I'm not sure if it was me holding it that warmed it up or actual heat from the light at this point. However, while still holding it, around 10 minutes into the test, I remember it felt noticeably warm, and then around 15 minutes, it felt hot, but not uncomfortably so. At this point I stopped playing with the light.


----------



## woodfluter (Aug 8, 2007)

More the fool I. Well, I spoke a bit too soon. Just ran another test of sufficient duration with a good battery and may have partially answered my own question - sorry about that!

Room T = 83F, air still.
Battery: Surefire, slightly used, initial voltage 3.22V
Alcohol thermometer with head resting on "Caution - Hot" engraving.
2 min = 84F
4 min = 86F (continues rising 1 deg F/min until..)
14 min = 95F
16 min = 96F
18 min = 96.5F
20 min = 96.5F
Battery voltage 5 minutes after test end 2.90V

So if I run it long enough with a SF battery, it really does heat up. Plenty to measure and feel. Reaches equilibrium temperature at 13.5 degrees F above environmental temperature at around 18 minutes. No flickering or apparent dimming through a 20 minute test.

You guys are right, I think the BS batteries are just not adequate to power this light at high output. They have functioned adequately in some other lights, suffering only in the runtime category, but I think "high" on the L1 Cree must be a pretty high-drain application!

- Bill

P.S. Now I can rest easier, knowing I haven't lost in the apparent QA/QC lottery.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Aug 8, 2007)

With the Battery station Batteries you were walking around at night. The night air from the wind, or from dangling on the lanyard would have helped cool the light. 

It sounds like the Surefire battery test was done indoors, with the flashlight laying still on a table. The measurement you gave showed that even in those conditions the light did not go above body temperature.

One big advantage of the Cree LEDs is that they do not put off nearly as much heat as previous LED versions. Surefire chose to go for runtime instead of maximum brightness with the L1. It is not surprising that the light does not get that hot. If you hold it in your hand, it should not get too hot for comfort.

When you look at a runtime chart it's clear that most Surfire's don't have regulation as flat as Fenix lights. Surefire does have good regulation. I can't notice the light dimming in real life. Surefire also has more of a tail or a "moon mode" than Fenix, some people like that.

I use Battery Station batteries often. I've used them in my L4 with no problem, and the 5 Watt Surefire L4 is more demanding than the L1 Cree.


----------



## woodfluter (Aug 9, 2007)

Thanks Art -

Info about Cree running cooler etc is very interesting. Doubtless a reflection of the efficiency. I am one of those who doesn't mind the longer tail.

Yes, dangling from the lanyard the air could have cooled it, but that night air was around 82F also. I left it on after I got home, and felt it again before I shut it off and tested voltage. It couldn't just be cooling - it was like nothing.

And the light dimmed continuously, from the start, with the Battery Station cell. Just like it was a completely unregulated light working with an alkaline cell, nothing like the high and low L1-Cree runtime curves shown by someone on this list.

I still think it was the battery, pending better experiments, if I ever get around to that. The cell appeared to be incapable of delivering enough power on the high setting to maintain regulated levels or even to heat up the head, and when stressed that much couldn't deliver enough to even maintain regulated low. (My best guess as of now.)

Still, that doesn't fit well with your use of BS cells in the L4, does it? Unless you are like me and typically only use high-output lights or settings for brief periods. If so, maybe you never got to the point I did with this test? I doubt I would ever have occasion to leave mine on high for nearly an hour uninterrupted, and very seldom for 20 minutes. I really like this light.

I too use the Battery Station 123 cells very frequently. They are nice folks to deal with and the bulk price makes them cost-effective. This experience just leaves me uncertain about theirs being the best choice with this light if you expect to crank big lumens for a long spell.

All the best, 
- Bill


----------



## 270winchester (Aug 9, 2007)

BTW Last Friday when I called at 1PM, the CS lady took the RMA and called me back within an hour and half. The 800 number is there for a reason folks.


----------



## mick53 (Aug 9, 2007)

elgarak said:


> It's something that happens when a new, innovative product hits the market.



Bologna anyone? How about a little QC? Maybe work the bugs out before foisting a defective product on the unsuspecting public.

Surefire commands rather high prices for their products, $135 for this gem. They could at least make sure they got it right before they turn it loose.

I understand customer loyalty, I do not understand blind customer loyalty.

Give their warranty a close read. You send it back, (and you pay for the shipping back) and THEY will decide it it's defective or not and THEY will decide whether to repair, replace or refund your hard earned dollars.

It doesn't matter if you're disgusted with them for releasing this product prematurely and you want to wash your hands of them. They have your money and they'll give it back IF they feel like it.

The water is circling the bowl on this greedy little company. They need to turn things around or their high flying sales will come back to earth in a year or two and then they'll slide into the choppy waters of an ocean of unsatisfied customers and drown.

If they made flashlights as well as they market them their prices might be justified. 

Mike


----------



## GreySave (Aug 9, 2007)

<< Give their warranty a close read. You send it back, (and you pay for the shipping back) and THEY will decide it it's defective or not and THEY will decide whether to repair, replace or refund your hard earned dollars >>


I ignored this in another thread, but enough is enough. I agree with you on the shipping charges IF the product is defective right out of the box as is the case with many people in this thread. In that case SureFire should pay the return shipping.

Beyond that, SureFires warranty statements and requirements are no different that than of the majority of companies out there, regardless of what they manufacture. Seems to me I recall SureFire recently replacing a light that was run over by a lawn mower. 

You clearly have an issue with SureFire. So be it. Let's just keep things in perspective.


----------



## FlashSpyJ (Aug 9, 2007)

I want the new L1 cree, and I can wait until they realese some that works properly!

I wont spend my cash unknowing if I have to send it back or not. Im not in the US so I really dont want any trouble sending it back...

So when someone knows when its safe to buy them, let us know!

Fearing that the next generations of led will be out before I get my hands on the new L1....


----------



## mick53 (Aug 9, 2007)

GreySave said:


> << Give their warranty a close read. You send it back, (and you pay for the shipping back) and THEY will decide if it's defective or not and THEY will decide whether to repair, replace or refund your money. >>
> 
> I ignored this in another thread, but enough is enough. I agree with you on the shipping charges IF the product is defective right out of the box as is the case with many people in this thread. In that case SureFire should pay the return shipping.
> 
> Beyond that, SureFires warranty statements and requirements are no different that than of the majority of companies out there, regardless of what they manufacture. .



You are correct. Enough is enough and I'm sorry you "ignored this" in the other post. You really should speak your mind when something bothers you!

Just because "the majority of companies out there" are no different than Surefire doesn't make screwing people right, does it?

I just returned some binoculars to OpticsPlanet that I had for over 30 days. They refunded my purchase price PLUS my cost of shipping the glasses back to them. They have EARNED my loyalty.

Last year, I noticed some marks on the underside of the barrel of a S&W I bought new but had had for almost a year. It looked like someone at the factory had inserted the barrel and tightened it with a pair of Vise Grips. There was a small row of "tooth marks" on the barrel.

I took some pics and emailed them to S&W. They said they were aware of the problem on "a very limited number of revolvers," said a "then new tech had done a few like that" and it would be taken care of (it was the new 7 shot model of the old 586). They emailed me an overnight Fedex shipping label. I shipped it the following day.

When I got the revolver back in less than two weeks it had a new barrel plus a new, deep blue all over finish like they put on their old revolver PLUS a trigger jog from their Pro Shop. Now that, my friend is customer service!

People who paid $140 for the new L1 and have the strobe effect should be angry. Nothing wrong with anger when it's appropriate.

When someone takes your money and doesn't deliver what's promised you should be angry. i don't know what happened to the people in our country. We have turned into a nation of sheep. "Oh well, I got screwed again. But at least I'm used to it now. It doesn't hurt as much as it used to." Great attitude.

Someone spits in your face. You whack 'em. These days someone is likely going to say to you, "Why did you hit him? He has 'issues.' He made a bad choice. So you shouldn't be angry. Have you considered taking a little anger management course somewhere?"

If Surefire sold me a defective light I would of course try the soft approach first.

If they told me I had to pay for shipping the light back to them to give them the chance to correct their mistake, I would try to reason with them.

If they said "pay for the shipping or tough luck," I'd call the company and try to get John Matthew's on the phone or at least his exec. assist.

I'd raise hell and Ill bet my butt Surefire would pay for the shipping and believe me I'd get a full refund out of them. 

They screwed up. Why make the problem resolution difficult for the consumer? Why should I pay my money to a company that treats me like crap?

They should never have done a premature release of this thing. It wasn't ready and if they didn't know it THEY SHOULD HAVE. They have no excuse on this one!

Their sales are way up these days. If they keep this crap up, those sales numbers will come back to earth. Then, in a year or two they company will find itself downing in a sea of dissatisfied customers. Tough to get 'em back once you lose 'em. 

Personally I get the feeling they don't care much for the civilian market anymore and this L1 debacle may be evidence of thiis.

More dough for them in law enforcement and military sales? It would be interesting to see their income broken down into these market segments. That might tell the story.

Look, there's nothing wrong with customer loyalty. But a company has to earn it and maintain it by treating their customers well. Blind customer loyalty is just plain foolish. When I read all these posts written by Surefire apologists I want to puke.

If they made flashlights as well as they market them there would be no problem.

Please don't ignore this one, GreySave. Speak your mind.

Mike


----------



## GreySave (Aug 9, 2007)

No reply necessary sir. Part of me would love to because I have been involved in providing warranty service in an unrelated industry, but I would surely get myself in trouble with the moderators. Beyond that, I will say that I think your posts have spoken volumes.


----------



## LongDistance (Aug 9, 2007)

I have a L1 cree and I have not experienced any strobing problems. Then again, I haven't run the flashlight on for more than 5 minutes...


----------



## FlashSpyJ (Aug 9, 2007)

I have asked a SF internet retailer about when the new supposedly fixed ones are arriving. About 2-3 weeks! That would hopfully make me a proud owner in resonable time!


----------



## luminata (Aug 10, 2007)

3 and 1/2 weeks. Still nothing . Good to see Sf is still saying 2-3 weeks after stating 2-3 weeks a week ago. One thing they are consistant with is pushing dates forward repeatedly


----------



## digitaleos (Aug 10, 2007)

I had a message today from Surefire Customer Service, the new lights are in, and they have exchanged my defective one for a new one, it shipped out today, I should have it back Monday. I will be sure to run a lengthy test on it to make sure it doesn't exhibit the same problems. 

Chris


----------



## PoliceScannerMan (Aug 10, 2007)

Hmmmmmmmmm........

I wish SF would make an official statement on the whole situation, there is obviously a glitch. I wonder if my (up until now) normal L1 will ever fail..... :shrug:

Whats PSM to do?


----------



## digitaleos (Aug 10, 2007)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Hmmmmmmmmm........
> 
> I wish SF would make an official statement on the whole situation, there is obviously a glitch. I wonder if my (up until now) normal L1 will ever fail..... :shrug:
> 
> Whats PSM to do?


 
The customer service rep I spoke to yesterday was by far the best one I've spoken to yet. She did verify that that the first L1 Crees did have some type of problem, but she didn't know exactly what it was. She told me yesterday that the new batch should be in Thursday or Friday, and that they would send me a new one with UPS Next Day shipping, she took down my phone number and said she would call today with the tracking #, and she did. My new one should be here Monday when I get home from work, we'll see how this one does.

Chris


----------



## luminata (Aug 10, 2007)

wOW!

did you by chance get a name of that Rep? If I call Monday I want to ask for her by name. That is all I was asking for . This should be the process for everyone. A quick call or email with tracking number and some information about the issue/status of your warrant claim and shipping a bit quicker than standard ground. :twothumbs


----------



## dcowboyscr (Aug 11, 2007)

I've had problems in the past with BS batteries in an A2 Aviator for what its worth.


----------



## JNewell (Aug 11, 2007)

Concur strongly.



PoliceScannerMan said:


> Hmmmmmmmmm........
> 
> I wish SF would make an official statement on the whole situation, there is obviously a glitch. I wonder if my (up until now) normal L1 will ever fail..... :shrug:
> 
> Whats PSM to do?


----------



## c4igrant (Aug 11, 2007)

Spoke to my SF sales rep and she advised that they have had some issues with the first run of L1's. I asked if they have seen large numbers of returns and she said no.

To date, I have had 2 L1's returned. That is it.



C4


----------



## Gimmy (Aug 12, 2007)

digitaleos said:


> The customer service rep I spoke to yesterday was by far the best one I've spoken to yet. She did verify that that the first L1 Crees did have some type of problem, but she didn't know exactly what it was. She told me yesterday that the new batch should be in Thursday or Friday, and that they would send me a new one with UPS Next Day shipping, she took down my phone number and said she would call today with the tracking #, and she did. My new one should be here Monday when I get home from work, we'll see how this one does.
> 
> Chris



Just ordered one from their website 5 minutes ago. I hope it will be a good one from the new batch.


----------



## ganled (Aug 12, 2007)

Does anybody know if it is safe to buy one now? Does anybody know a good online store that carries a new batch?

This does not look good for Surefire. When you pay so much for a flashlight that has such a high markup, you would expect immaculate quality, utter reliability, and extremely accommodating customer service. You would expect that the extra money is being spent on non-material services and guarantee. In some industries you do not have room for slip-ups. This is especially true if you are selling your product for more money on the basis that it is more reliable than its competitior.


----------



## bigfoot (Aug 12, 2007)

I would imagine, based on the recent posts here, that the new batch of L1s are showing up very soon, if not already.

People seem very eager to bash Surefire. A mistake obviously slipped through the cracks. It sounds like they are taking care of it. It could happen to any business, whether they make widgets or gadgets.

Hopefully they make things right for their customers and everyone comes out happy.


----------



## FlashSpyJ (Aug 12, 2007)

the word is that the new working lights are round the corner...but who knows..

is it only the new L1 that has this problem? not the new E2L and E1L?


----------



## merlocka (Aug 13, 2007)

Well. I'm trying my luck, hoping everything new is from the "fixed" batch. Just ordered an L1 from the surefire website. Will report with findings when it arrives.


----------



## luminata (Aug 13, 2007)

I'm not gonna make any more sarcastics digs at Surefire in this post just a couple thoughts.
I was gonna call SF today to see where my L1 stands since there have been a cpl reports that they are sending them back to people now. But a part of me wants to just wait and see. See if I get it this week at all or if it goes into week 5,6,7,8..... But I also want to call and see if I get attitude/ignorance again . I have a feeling if a call isnt made and the customer doesnt specifically plead their case you will not get next day shipping, a tracking number or anything . That is not good customer service. 
2 examples of Customer Service to me
My sister returned her HP computer for warranty repair , something died in it. She got it back in 2 DAYS!! with shipping to and from paid for . 
My dad has an electric scooter, not even in production anymore , with a faulty charger/converter. He called the 1800 number on the box. They apologized profusely and sent him a new charger AND a complete new battery to boot, in under a week and 1/2. Now he can keep a 2nd fully charged ready to go. 

I have been thinking I might sell my L1 when I do get it back. What if I ever have to send it back in again, like for a broken Pyrex window or soemthing? I dont want to go throught this crap with them again. And how can anyone be sure they are getting a "fixed" "new" batch L1 unless they order directly from SF? The serial numbers are not any use in telling. I guess with a good business like OptiqsHQ , they will be able to tell you . 

It is true every manufacturer has glitches , but you shouldnt have feelings of dread at the thought of dealing with a company where you are the paying consumer of their products.


----------



## KDOG3 (Aug 13, 2007)

Finally got my replacement L1. Seems to be ok. I went to do a test for 10-15 minutes, then fell asleep for about 45 more. When I woke up the light was still on same brightness with no hint of flickering. Finally got a good one! Now I can relax, until the G2L comes out...


----------



## Size15's (Aug 13, 2007)

KDOG3 said:


> Now I can relax, until the G2L comes out...


It has been out with Dealers for a while now - even CPF Dealers have 'em


----------



## gsm (Aug 13, 2007)

My replacement L1 arrived today. It was shipped next day air saver on Friday. I have run it for over a hour, no problems at all. It smokes my old L1 and has good tint. :thumbsup: Gsm


----------



## digitaleos (Aug 13, 2007)

I also received my replacement L1 today, I've only tested it for 7 minutes so far, but so far so good.

Chris


----------



## MattK (Aug 13, 2007)

Revised L1's shipped to dealers starting 8/9 - we have ~50 of em coming.


----------



## parnass (Aug 13, 2007)

MattK said:


> Revised L1's shipped to dealers starting 8/9 - we have ~50 of em coming.



Anyone know if the revised L1s or their packages are marked to distinguish them from the earlier batch?


----------



## MattK (Aug 13, 2007)

I doubt it but can confirm in 2-3 days. The revised lights didn't begin shipping until 8/9 AFAIK so not many dealers will have them yet.


----------



## FlashSpyJ (Aug 14, 2007)

anyone know if they are with or whitout frosted lens?


----------



## gsm (Aug 14, 2007)

FlashSpyJ said:


> anyone know if they are with or whitout frosted lens?





My replacement has a slight frost to it, about the same as my first one. Gsm


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Aug 14, 2007)

MattK said:


> Revised L1's shipped to dealers starting 8/9 - we have ~50 of em coming.


I'll be waiting for them...


----------



## FlashSpyJ (Aug 14, 2007)

have to wait until I get my paycheck before I can order one... its itching in my fingers....I WANT ONE NOW!


----------



## MattK (Aug 14, 2007)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I'll be waiting for them...



Thursday. 

Your package is on time with a scheduled delivery date of 08/16/2007. 

Type: Package 
Status: In Transit - On Time 
Scheduled Delivery: 08/16/2007


----------



## CallMeDave (Aug 14, 2007)

MattK said:


> Revised L1's shipped to dealers starting 8/9 ...



I would love to know if the revision is to the body and/or to the head.

I won the Limited Edition Donation Drive raffle (even if it did take me more then four weeks to claim it) for an L1 with a special "PK" logo engraved on the head.

If the fix is to the body alone, perhaps SureFire customer service might be willing to let me keep my special head, given that the light was a "personal gift" from PK.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see if it needs attention or not...

Dave


----------



## 270winchester (Aug 14, 2007)

got mine back today, so far it;s 16 minutes continuous on high, looks okay so far. brightness is very good BTW.

edit: 56 minutes, the hot spot still beats that of a Novatac 120. Good times.


----------



## batman (Aug 16, 2007)

look at how fast SF fixed this problem, it's over and done with. I just bought a new batch L1 from opticsHQ,..didn't have to wait long for the problem to get fixed. I can't even begin to complain.


----------



## MattK (Aug 16, 2007)

We tested 3 lights for 15 minutes for customers pre-shipment today and not 1 problem.


----------



## luminata (Aug 16, 2007)

Its over and done with for some batman, but not for me. still waiting and nothing .

I really, really wish I had gone with Novatac and the 85T. I would have had a working light right now instead of waiting for.......? 

Called SF today . they supposed to get back to me with update before end of day....nothing. Here we go again I really can't take this crap anymore. 5 weeks at the end of this week I beleive for me.


----------



## 270winchester (Aug 16, 2007)

hang in there Luminata. Hope you get yours back soon. THis is the first incident of functional problem I have had with them and I hope it's the last.


----------



## Gimmy (Aug 18, 2007)

FlashSpyJ said:


> have to wait until I get my paycheck before I can order one... its itching in my fingers....I WANT ONE NOW!



Order now, by the time they ship and the bill gets to your house you will have your paycheck.


----------



## merlocka (Aug 21, 2007)

I received my L1 from Surefire (ordered it directly from SF).

It has been running for 20 minutes on high, no problems.

It has a white dot on it. Not sure if that means anything. 







Oh, here are a couple of quick beamshots. 





This is my L1 running a Surefire 123 battery. It's been running for about 15 minutes at this point.





This is my DEXlight X.1 running on a fairly fresh 14400.

Both images are about 2-3ft from wall. If you back away, the DEX actually starts appearing brighter as it has more spill and the L1 is more of a "cone".

One last "almost crapped my pants" note. Ultrafire RCR123's are very snug. Quite snug, in fact. OK, I almost couldn't get the damn thing out. I need to get some AW's...

BUT, when I did have it in, I only turned it on for a bit. I was going to do some beamshots for comparison, but I don't want to get the battery stuck. For the moment I had it in, I did think the high beam was brighter... but it could have been my wishful thinking.

Anyway, it's going on 30 minutes now, no flickering or anything. I'm pretty happy with this light. The color temperature is nice.


----------



## bigfoot (Aug 21, 2007)

Nice pics and thanks for sharing your experience. I am thinking of ordering right from SF myself. I believe the white dot on the light denotes the LED color (white, red, blue, etc.), as my E1L had a similar white dot on it.


----------



## JNewell (Aug 21, 2007)

bigfoot said:


> I believe the white dot on the light denotes the LED color (white, red, blue, etc.), as my E1L had a similar white dot on it.


 
That's right.


----------



## SunStar (Aug 21, 2007)

Has anyone developed a regulation curve for the new L1 on primaries vs. RCR?

Also, is the low level regulated or is it basically the same config as the previous L1?


----------



## ganled (Aug 21, 2007)

I received my surefire L1 last week. I've ran it for quite a while and it seems to be fine?

Out of curiosity:
If your light had problems, what was your serial number? I don't have mine on me right now but I do believe that it was in the mid 200s.

Have you noticed that the light stays really cool after a long run? Mine barely got warmed up after a continuous 15 minutes.

Have you noticed that the beam has a green tint and has artifacts around the outer edge of the hot spot?


----------



## senna94 (Aug 22, 2007)

I just received my L1 today and there does not seem to be any sign of the flickering problems. However, I have noticed that it does seem to have a green tint. A tint that is much more noticeable on low and is almost imperceptible on high. It is rather frustrating since since my other Cree lights (Fenix) do not exhibit this greenish tint. I know that LEDs are still very inconsistent in their color, but I wish Surefire would be more selective in the ones they choose for their lights.


----------



## WildChild (Aug 23, 2007)

senna94 said:


> I just received my L1 today and there does not seem to be any sign of the flickering problems. However, I have noticed that it does seem to have a green tint. A tint that is much more noticeable on low and is almost imperceptible on high. It is rather frustrating since since my other Cree lights (Fenix) do not exhibit this greenish tint. I know that LEDs are still very inconsistent in their color, but I wish Surefire would be more selective in the ones they choose for their lights.



Lottery! My Fenix L2D has a very greenish tint but I still like it. E2L is slightly yellowish/greenish. L0D is white, maybe slightly blueish. And compared to all the others, the Wolf-Eyes I received this week is perfect white. In fact, this is the whitest LED I've ever seen. All are Cree lights. They cannot dump slight variations like this, the light will still be useful to you even with the greenish tint and after a few hours of use, you won't notice it anymore. Also, take note that Cree LEDs seems to have less variation than old Luxeon LEDs.


----------



## senna94 (Aug 23, 2007)

Thanks for the response WildChild. As you say, I have noticed that the Crees seem to be much more consistent than the old Lux. It is for this very reason I thought that the L1 would be whiter. I also have an old KL1 head that exhibits that yellowish green tint. Evidently Surefire seems not mind using this temp. led. I am trying to get used to the tint and notice that my eyes do compensate for this when there are no other light sources around. However, when I turn on my Novatac or Fenix lights the L1 sticks out like a soar thumb. As I said it is not as noticeable on high but still present.


----------



## luminata (Aug 26, 2007)

Got mine back after 6 weeks. They sent me a whole new light though I beggged them to keep the head of my original. They didn't , no surprise there. They had temporarily "lost " mine again hence the 6 weeks, unbelievable. They assure me "all have the same beam quality" well , not so. New one has Green tint on high and low/artifacts and ringy beam. also output on high is not as bright on this replacement either. There is significantly less "frost coating" on this one. Tested for 30 mins and no drop in output. I am not happy with the end result of this fiasco. These lights are absolute crap and not worth the money . there are so many other options out there. The Novatacs even with the 120p problems are still much more worth the money . The 85t is the way I should have gone. I hate this piece of junk and wont even be carrying it. $150 dollar paper weight. The crappy output/quality doesnt justify carrying as EDC. 

Problem is now I have blown my alloted money I can afford to spend on flashlights for the year with so many other committments/responsiblities I can only dump the dinero into a "quality light " once a year . SF has lost it IMO. Will never waste another dollar on them.


----------



## bigfoot (Aug 26, 2007)

Couldn't you call Surefire and request a refund? Maybe you could get your money back and spend it on a light that meets your needs. At the worst, I bet someone would snap it up on the for sale forums, especially since it's a brand new light.

Not trying to rub salt in a wound here, but I had to call their customer service (first time ever) about a week ago regarding a cracked beam filter and they were very professional and courteous. Impressive in this day and age, especially with the amount of overseas call centers.


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 26, 2007)

luminata said:


> Problem is now I have blown my alloted money I can afford to spend on flashlights for the year with so many other committments/responsiblities I can only dump the dinero into a "quality light " once a year . SF has lost it IMO. Will never waste another dollar on them.



eBay or BST. 

As for your "lesson learned", you said you had learned that lesson before you bought your L1 Cree. Hope it sticks this time.


----------



## luminata (Aug 26, 2007)

I wouldnt dump this junk on any poor unsuspecting soul.

If I do ever have a moment of weakness with SF agin I know you Valpo will be there to keep me true to my word this time. I wish I had you next to me day and night to keep me on the straight true path of your wisdom and insight. God Bless all Valpos we would be lost without you.


----------



## matrixshaman (Aug 26, 2007)

luminata said:


> Got mine back after 6 weeks. They sent me a whole new light though I beggged them to keep the head of my original. They didn't , no surprise there. They had temporarily "lost " mine again hence the 6 weeks, unbelievable. They assure me "all have the same beam quality" well , not so. New one has Green tint on high and low/artifacts and ringy beam. also output on high is not as bright on this replacement either. There is significantly less "frost coating" on this one. Tested for 30 mins and no drop in output. I am not happy with the end result of this fiasco. These lights are absolute crap and not worth the money . there are so many other options out there. The Novatacs even with the 120p problems are still much more worth the money . The 85t is the way I should have gone. I hate this piece of junk and wont even be carrying it. $150 dollar paper weight. The crappy output/quality doesnt justify carrying as EDC.
> 
> Problem is now I have blown my alloted money I can afford to spend on flashlights for the year with so many other committments/responsiblities I can only dump the dinero into a "quality light " once a year . SF has lost it IMO. Will never waste another dollar on them.



Don't get stuck with something you don't like - demand a refund from SF or whoever you got it from. Then go get a Novatac or something off B/S/T from known members and you'll know ahead what you are getting. And if you get a Novatac you can expect fast and good service if there is any problem. I think SF has gotten so big they just aren't consistent in giving good service anymore OR the top management there is not doing a good job IMO.


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 26, 2007)

luminata said:


> I wouldnt dump this junk on any poor unsuspecting soul.
> 
> If I do ever have a moment of weakness with SF agin I know you Valpo will be there to keep me true to my word this time. I wish I had you next to me day and night to keep me on the straight true path of your wisdom and insight. God Bless all Valpos we would be lost without you.



Your sarcasm is very subtle. :ironic: My gripe with your situation is that you said you knew better, but you bought a product from a manufacturer that you already had problems with, but then you were surprised when you got a light that didn't meet your expectations. Then you proceed to give us whiny updates about how bad everything is. Spare us. Finally, if your wish came true and I was next to you day and night, at least you wouldn't have so many run-on sentances.


----------



## seery (Aug 26, 2007)

luminata said:


> Problem is now I have blown my alloted money I can afford to spend on flashlights for the year with so many other committments/responsiblities I can only dump the dinero into a "quality light " once a year . SF has lost it IMO. Will never waste another dollar on them.


Just sell the light and quit whining about it already!


----------



## uspopo (Aug 26, 2007)

I haven't been on CPF for awhile so I just ran into this thread. Took my new L1 and fired it up on high for about 2mins with no regulation problems. Yippee!!

Stan


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Aug 26, 2007)

uspopo, run your L1 for about 10 minutes then report back if you have issues, problems. This thread is about Surefire Cree L1 owner with issues, and you have not posted any issues. If you do have issues, then report them, but do not over report them, please. Also, Welcome to CPF.

Bill


----------



## Art Vandelay (Aug 27, 2007)

Not including new L1's with no problems, what is the average time it takes for the flickering to start?


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Aug 27, 2007)

Reading this thread, flickering issues started after 5 minutes continuous on.

Bill


----------



## Gimmy (Aug 27, 2007)

Bullzeyebill said:


> uspopo, run your L1 for about 10 minutes then report back if you have issues, problems. This thread is about Surefire Cree L1 owner with issues, and you have not posted any issues. If you do have issues, then report them, but do not over report them, please. Also, Welcome to CPF.
> 
> Bill



Hi Bill 

This is a rough way to welcome uspopo back isn't it? Many many posts on this 12 page thread and other threads are little off topic, I think it make reading it fun rather then just reading people complaining for 12 pages. 


Gim


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Aug 27, 2007)

Jimmy, yes you are right. Re-reading my post gives that impression. I had read, previously, a post from another person, a person who has complained, complained, complained in this thread, before I responded to uspopo, and I was not my usual diplomatic self. uspopo, I apologize. Did you recheck your L1, running it for five minutes or so?

Bill


----------



## strat1080 (Aug 27, 2007)

I think what he's getting at is that if this thread stayed on topic it wouldn't be anywhere near 12 pages and much easier to find out the true issues. It would probably be only 6 pages of actual relevant information that helps people find out what is truly going on with the L1. If this thread stayed more relevant and was half the length, it would be much easier to find out just how many people are truly having issues and what the process is like for getting the issues resolved(time-frame, quality of end result, etc).



Gimmy said:


> Hi Bill
> 
> This is a rough way to welcome uspopo back isn't it? Many many posts on this 12 page thread and other threads are little off topic, I think it make reading it fun rather then just reading people complaining for 12 pages.
> 
> ...


----------



## bondr006 (Sep 1, 2007)

Just got done running my L1 on high for an hour and 15 minutes. No problems whatsoever. Still had very usable light left. Got a little warm, but nothing extreme. I have serial#A02205

I




my L1.


----------



## Dinan (Sep 5, 2007)

Just got an L1 and E1L from a B&M store so they could've been sitting around for a while.

I have to say I'm pretty impressed with my L1 (I was fearing the flickering problem!). But after running it on high for 15 mins it was fine, no flickering or dropping to a lower brightness (from what I could see) and it was just a little warm, but not as warm as my L4 would get. The tint is pretty nice too, a nice warmish white. The body has serial #A01379... how come they don't have a serial for the head?

(The E1L on the other hand is a bit weird. The one in the store I played with had a dome shaped window that looked like a magnifying glass and the beam it put out looked like a square... like it was magnifying the die of the LED, but the tint was good. When I bought the new one in packaging, the head was the same as my L1 - flat but slightly frosted so the beam was a nice circle but the tint was kind of greenish... oh well)


----------



## parnass (Sep 5, 2007)

Dinan said:


> .....
> (The E1L on the other hand is a bit weird. The one in the store I played with had a dome shaped window that looked like a magnifying glass and the beam it put out looked like a square... like it was magnifying the die of the LED, but the tint was good. When I bought the new one in packaging, the head was the same as my L1 - flat but slightly frosted so the beam was a nice circle but the tint was kind of greenish... oh well)



The first E1L you tried was an older, non-Cree version.


----------



## LA OZ (Sep 5, 2007)

I ran mine for 30min and no issue. Very nice ever slightly warm tint. SN A00036 .


----------



## MikeSalt (Sep 5, 2007)

WITHDRAWN

Reason: Not in keeping with purpose of Original Poster, sorry 270winchester


----------



## bondr006 (Sep 5, 2007)

Well, that's kind of a baited post isn't it Mike? I had several Fenix's. Sold my L1D and P3D in MarketPlace. After getting my L1(rated at 65 lumens max), which btw blew away my P3D(rated at 160 lumens max), in terms of brightness and beam quality(not to mention build quality), I decided to sell the P3D. I kept my favorite Fenix's as seen in my signature. But after getting a Surefire and Lumapower M1(which also blows the P3D outta the water), I will now concentrate on some nicer lights to round off my collection. I have no complaints about the Fenix lights I own and owned, as I never had anything go wrong with any of them. In fact, my P2D was my favorite EDC up until the time I received my L1. I still carry my P2D along with my L1, but that will most likely change soon. I will be receiving a Novatac 120P today or tomorrow, and that is destined to take the place of my P2D. Get an L1 in your hand, and you'll see why people like their Surefire lights. *Did I mention that they have a no questions asked lifetime replacement warranty?* I am guessing you do not own a Surefire Mike, so I must take your opinion with the proverbial grain of Mike*Salt. *



MikeSalt said:


> This is unacceptable. I would NEVER buy an LED flashlight from Surefire. I might be tempted to get an incandescent from them, but for LED duties, it is definately Fenix all the way for me.
> 
> Surefire should stop trying to keep up with the LED Masters, and focus on the glowing filaments that they are good at.


----------



## LA OZ (Sep 5, 2007)

MikeSalt said:


> This is unacceptable. I would NEVER buy an LED flashlight from Surefire. I might be tempted to get an incandescent from them, but for LED duties, it is definately Fenix all the way for me.
> 
> Surefire should stop trying to keep up with the LED Masters, and focus on the glowing filaments that they are good at.



:huh: no one is perfect. They have fixed the issue promptly. Fenix is not without issues. I have more problems with Fenix than SF. Loose thread with the initial P1D CE for example.


----------



## NickDrak (Sep 5, 2007)

MikeSalt said:


> This is unacceptable. I would NEVER buy an LED flashlight from Surefire. I might be tempted to get an incandescent from them, but for LED duties, it is definately Fenix all the way for me.
> 
> Surefire should stop trying to keep up with the LED Masters, and focus on the glowing filaments that they are good at.


 
I see now! no one has reported any issues with a Surefire L1 in this thread for quite some time now, so someone just had to jump in to throw a shot at Surefire. "Surefire should stop trying to keep up with the LED masters"what a joke! 

Oh yeah, BTW what issue are you having with your L1 again????


----------



## JNewell (Sep 5, 2007)

MikeSalt said:


> This is unacceptable.


 
I'm missing what's unacceptable. They had a problem...they fixed it. If we were to boycott every manufacturer that had ever released a bum light, we'd be using wooden matches to light up the night.


----------



## MikeSalt (Sep 5, 2007)

Sorry guys, somewhat of a bad (and boring) day at work. Points duly noted.


----------



## Matt Sutton (Sep 5, 2007)

I have a problem with my new L1, purchased directly from Surefire. It's definitely from the new batch too. The problem is that it's so fantastic that it makes me want to get a second one! 
Seriously, I couldn't be happier with mine. I think the beam, tint, and overall quality are outstanding.


----------



## JNewell (Sep 5, 2007)

MikeSalt said:


> Sorry guys, somewhat of a bad (and boring) day at work. Points duly noted.


 
This thread has had a LOT of ugly moments. Your post quoted above really helps get / keep the tone where it should be. Thank you! :thumbsup:


----------



## MattK (Sep 5, 2007)

We've been getting numerous daily inquiries regarding the L1's and I just want to let everyone know that we've opened/tested 10-15 of the new batches at buyer requests and not had a failure yet. With over 100 shipped from this new batch and no reported flickering issue it looks like Surefire has the problem beat and the L1 is now definitely one of my new favorites.


----------



## WildChild (Oct 30, 2007)

Damn... I have to send my 2 weeks old L1 for repair because something started to rattle in the body.  I hope repair won't be too long!


----------



## Tempest UK (Oct 30, 2007)

Just an update - bought my L1 at launch and have still had no problems. Holding up very nicely 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## JNewell (Oct 30, 2007)

Tempest UK said:


> Just an update - bought my L1 at launch and have still had no problems. Holding up very nicely
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest


 
Ditto here. Excellent light.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan (Oct 30, 2007)

+3, no problems here. I have had one 60 minute run on high.


----------



## Kilovolt (Oct 31, 2007)

Tempest UK said:


> Just an update - bought my L1 at launch and have still had no problems. Holding up very nicely


 
Same thing here. I'm perfectly happy with my L1 CREE from MattK.

:thumbsup:


----------



## JNewell (Oct 31, 2007)

Just for clarity, at least some of us are talking about the first run of Cree L1s that had, to borrow a word from the title of this thread, "issues." I think the dud lights were a small minority of that run.


----------



## MattK (Nov 2, 2007)

This thread is done - we should put a fork in it. 

The issue cropped up on a smaller percentage of the initial run, has been corrected months ago and not seen since.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Nov 5, 2007)




----------

