# Welch Allyn Penlights?



## american lockpicker (May 15, 2009)

I have an interest in penlights and while doing a google search I found a Welch Allyn penlight for around $50. How good are these quality wise? Also are they made in Germany? And is it really the best penlight out there?


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## cryhavok (May 15, 2009)

These penlights are pretty good, but way over priced. A friend of mine has one and my Lumens Factory $2.99 penlight is 90% the brightness and about the same tint. 

His lamp blew (probably <1 hour use...) and the only way to replace the bulb is to buy a new head assembly for about $15  He is using a LF penlight now 

If you aren't looking for incandescent only, you can find much brighter LED penlights. The only reason we are using incandescent is the color rendition (we're medical students)


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## joema (May 15, 2009)

american lockpicker said:


> I have an interest in penlights and while doing a ggogle search I found a Welch Allyn penlight for around $50. How good are these quality wise? Also are they made in Germany? And is it really the best penlight out there?


I purchased one as a gift for a medical professional. 

It looks very nice, is well constructed, and is the standard medical penlight. However from a technology standpoint, it's archaic. Output is very weak, beam pattern a misshapen blob. 20 years ago all penlights were like that -- current lights are so good we just forget. The Welch Allyn penlight is an artifact from an earlier era, somehow still in production.

There's an argument the incandescent bulb, however weak and primitive, provides better color rendition for tissue examination. However I don't really buy that -- Drs. examine frequently do examinations using fluorescent lights, LED penlights, etc. 

If Surefire made a penlight, that would be a similarly-positioned alternative. Ironically they now make a pen, but no penLIGHT.

The Streamlight MicroStream LED might be an alternative.


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## [email protected] (May 16, 2009)

I've had people call my g2 a penlight. Using their logic a 6p with a sunlight, 2 imr's and a 1164 should qualify. :devil:


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## american lockpicker (May 16, 2009)

To me a pen light is a straight tubed 2AA or smaller.


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## dano (May 16, 2009)

joema said:


> I purchased one as a gift for a medical professional.
> 
> It looks very nice, is well constructed, and is the standard medical penlight. However from a technology standpoint, it's archaic. Output is very weak, beam pattern a misshapen blob. 20 years ago all penlights were like that -- current lights are so good we just forget. The Welch Allyn penlight is an artifact from an earlier era, somehow still in production.
> 
> ...



Incans are used in the medical field for their color rendition. You won't be examined with an LED light, you won't have surgery under LED lights, etc.

Enough of the LED snobery. Incans' aren't outdated or primitive, and still have significant value in everyday usage.


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## GarageBoy (May 16, 2009)

Ironic that the premier bulb maker makes a mediocore penlight


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## SilverFox (May 17, 2009)

Hello American lockpicker,

I have a couple of the Welch Allyn penlights. One is an antique, the other is the current model. I love them.

I also have several of the Lumens Factory penlights. They are OK, but the lamps don't last very long. I have gone through 4 of them, and the Welch Allyn is still going strong on the original lamp. 

Neither of them are suitable for white wall hunting, but both work very well in actual use.

Obviously, the build quality of the Welch Allyn is vastly superior to the Lumens Factory light. I frequently get some filckering from the Lumens Factory light, but this has not been observed with the Welch Allyn light. 

I also prefer the positive on/off switch of the Welch Allyn to the reverse clicky of the Lumens Factory light.

Comparing the antique chrome Welch Allyn light to the current one, I find the beam better on the current one. The chrome one is flashy though...

Tom


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## Nyctophiliac (May 17, 2009)

Hi American Lockpicker.

I used to have a 'posh' Welch Alleyn penlight about twenty years ago and it was great - and chrome.

My Father being a Doctor, I always had a few cheap disposable penlights around the house and I do have a minor fetish for torches ( ! ). 







I currently own two medical penlights, both superbly made. One is a currently available German made Cliplight by Heine Diagnostic Instruments - which uses AAA batts and is brushed steel finish - very reliable. The other is an old Luminex x10 magnifying instrument made by Beck of London ( not sure which era this was made in - anything from the early forties onward I would think ). This one now has a screw in led bulb which is too bright for intended purpose, but is great for wow factor.






Seeing how bright even a dim led is in close up compared to an incandescent bulb, it seem obvious that the medics would eschew the newer led. But I'm sure with the tint and brightness controls we now have at our disposal, the advent of the led diagnostic pentorch cannot be far away. Especially since various governments the world over seem to want to cease manufacturing incandescant bulbs for ecological reasons!

BTW - Cats love penlights!


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## SilverFox (May 17, 2009)

Here is a picture of my Welch Allyn chrome 760...






Tom


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## RobertM (May 17, 2009)

I would possibly like to get a good penlight for my soon-to-be sister-in-law who is currently in the nursing program at the University.

Could someone who has both the Welch Allyn Penlight (76600) and Lumens Factory penlight post comparative beamshots? I don't doubt that the WA Penlight is probably better built, but I'm just curious as to output and beam quality (I have a LF penlight).


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## Nyctophiliac (May 18, 2009)

SILVERFOX - THAT IS LOVELY!


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## joema (May 18, 2009)

dano said:


> Incans are used in the medical field for their color rendition. You won't be examined with an LED light, you won't have surgery under LED lights, etc...
> Enough of the LED snobery.


Most of us have ALREADY been examined under a non-incandescent light, such as a circular fluorescent magnifier.

Some of us may have been operated on using LED lights. There are several LED medical lights available.

http://www.enovamedical.com/
http://www.perioptix.com/

Numerous medical professionals have posted on this forum over the years saying they already use LED lights for examination.

Color rendition is an issue -- fortunately there are now high-CRI emitters.


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## Chrontius (May 18, 2009)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/231563

Robert, why not a Surefire?


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## RobertM (May 18, 2009)

joema said:


> Most of us have ALREADY been examined under a non-incandescent light, such as a circular fluorescent magnifier.
> 
> Some of us may have been operated on using LED lights. There are several LED medical lights available.
> 
> ...



I looked at both of the links you provided and, unless I missed it, neither have any mention of color rendition or CRI values for their lights. The closest either comes is Perioptix states "Pure white light for true color rendition" and a color temperature of 6000K. We all know that even _warm_ color temps does not equal high CRI when it comes to LEDs.

Are there any other small medical lights out there that truely have a high CRI LED (such as a Seoul 93-CRI S42180-S2 or N42180L-S2)?



Chrontius said:


> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/231563
> 
> Robert, why not a Surefire?



While that sounds like an interesting idea, I'm thinking that a E2e would be larger than what she would like. Plus, I don't see her using rechargeable cells. Thanks for the link though. 

Robert


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## nickanto (May 18, 2009)

The Streamlight Stylus Pro is an awesome penlight and you won't break the beak paying for it.


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## joema (May 18, 2009)

RobertM said:


> I looked at both of the links you provided and, unless I missed it, neither have any mention of color rendition or CRI values for their lights. The closest either comes is Perioptix states "Pure white light for true color rendition" and a color temperature of 6000K. We all know that even _warm_ color temps does not equal high CRI when it comes to LEDs.
> 
> Are there any other small medical lights out there that truely have a high CRI LED (such as a Seoul 93-CRI S42180-S2 or N42180L-S2)?


My main point concerned your statement that you won't be examined or have surgery under an LED light. That isn't really correct, as many medical professionals have posted on this board they _already use_ LED lights for patient examination. Some say they prefer incandescent, since it's how they were trained. 

Many others say they feel (even current) LED lights are adequate for them.

I don't know if any current mass-production small medical lights use truly high CRI LEDs, but as already stated, that's not a gating factor. As more such lights become available, the percentage of medical professionals using them will further increase.

Re surgery, this too is changing and medical illumination will ultimately switch over to LED: http://www.ameinfo.com/182888.html. This may be expedited by new energy efficiency regulations that target phasing out incandescent lighting.


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## sld (May 20, 2009)

Here is a picture of my Welch Allyn chrome 760...

I have one of those from about 25-30 years ago. I bought when I worked at a battery research company as the crappy one they supplied were always flickering or not working or way to dim. It's still in my small tool bag and still working fine, though I did have to order a new lamp for it a couple of years ago.


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## SilverFox (May 21, 2009)

As with all things, the tool specifications need to match the job you are using it for...

I had a discussion with a physician yesterday about the various lighting types used in the medical profession. 

For gross evaluation, any light will do.

The more precise the requirements of the observation, the more important the color temperature and CRI values are. 

The "best" lights are used in surgery, but even there it is often necessary to use filters for critical evaluation.

So, if you come to the doctors office with a finger cut off, the LED versus incandescent light source argument is meaningless. However, when the surgeon is attempting to reconnect your finger, it becomes very important.

Another area where correct color rendering is important is in the dentist office. When trying to match the shade of color of your teeth, it is important to have a broad spectrum light source.

He happened to have both LED and Welch Allyn penlights. He reserves the Welch Allyn light for special cases, and uses the LED light for routine use. It is easier to simply dispose of the inexpensive LED light than to go through decontamination procedures if the light becomes contaminated. In addition, he receives free lights from the various drug manufacturers, both incandescent and LED...

He did admit that he preferred the Welch Allyn light.

I am sure that if I discussed this with a number of other physicians I would get a number of different perspectives on this, but his responses seem to make sense to me.

Tom


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## RobertM (May 22, 2009)

SilverFox said:


> As with all things, the tool specifications need to match the job you are using it for...
> 
> I had a discussion with a physician yesterday about the various lighting types used in the medical profession.
> 
> ...



Tom, thanks for relaying to us the insights from your conversation(s). Were any of the LED lights anything us CPF'ers would recognize or were they just generic freebie lights?

If it would be at all possible, could you post a beamshot comparison of your newer WA pen light and your LF pen light?

Thanks,
Robert


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## woodrow (May 23, 2009)

Thanks for the cool pics of the Welch Allyn Penlights. They brought back memories of being fascinated by the Dr.'s penlight when I was just a little kid.... I had forgotton about that.


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## SilverFox (May 23, 2009)

Hello Robert,

I don't do beam shots very well, but I will see what I can do...

In our discussion the only brand of LED light that he mentioned was the Streamlight, but it was mentioned as a color that was very blue. I asked if he could pick up some from the drug manufacturers for me, but I am not holding my breath...

Tom


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## RyanA (May 24, 2009)

I don't know how much output you'd need or if LED would be ok. I'd take a look at the Peak Fujiyama or the upcoming Eiger both should be available in stainless steel. I think the Eiger should be available with 2aaa's and a momentary switch.


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## swrdply400mrelay (Jul 21, 2009)

dano said:


> Incans are used in the medical field for their color rendition. You won't be examined with an LED light, you won't have surgery under LED lights, etc.
> 
> Enough of the LED snobery. Incans' aren't outdated or primitive, and still have significant value in everyday usage.





I've done well women exams with LED lights...they now have them on the speculum. 

I think the reason to not go to warm LED's is mostly to save the cost for manufacturers.


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## vertigo_2_20 (Mar 19, 2010)

LEDs are starting to be implemented in BIOs, used for looking at the retina, and color rendition is very important for that. The BIO manufacturers that are not using LEDs of course argue that the color isn't as good and therefore the ones using LEDs are inferior products, but the doctors say they are no less suited for the task than the incandescent bulbs. And as already mentioned in this thread, it is even less important for gross examinations. It all depends on what you need the light for. For my purposes, a penlight is simply to do a basic external examination of the eyes and lids, including pupillary reflexes. Any light will work for this purpose.

I have a Welsh Allyn penlight I received for free with my diagnostic set, which I do like a lot, but I would never have paid for it, as they are ridiculously overpriced for what they are. It is a very well built light, with a lot of weight to it, and it uses two AAA batteries, which is nice. As mentioned above, the beam is of very poor quality, but for what I use it for, it's fine. My favorite thing about it is the switch. To turn the light on, I push the end switch UP with my thumb, and back down to turn it off. This setup prevents it from accidentally being turned on while in my pocket, a problem I have with my other two penlights, both of which have a clicky-style switch similar to a pen.

My favorite of the three, though, is a cheap, free VSP light. I like it because it's LED, it's small and light, allowing me to easily carry it on my person at all times, and it's bright enough to perform well as a regular flashlight but dim enough to use on a patient. What I don't like about it is it uses button batteries, the finish scratches easily, and, as I said, it has a clicky switch that has at least once caused me to inadvertently turn it on while in my pocket. Luckily I noticed it before too long, and being a low draw bulb (LED), the batteries were still fine. At least it's fairly difficult to turn on accidentally.

If I could find an LED penlight the size of this one, with the switch type the WA has, and that runs off a single AAA, I would be all over it. The only thing that could be better than that is the same thing with multiple levels of output, so I could use it both for exams and lighting up a room (or an object a hundred or so feet away). I have a Fenix P2D that I love for its size and brightness levels, but its thickness is a bit much to carry around, and even the lowest setting is a bit bright for an exam. Penlights are so much easier to EDC. Speaking of which, I've noticed a lot of people in penlight threads pointing to lights like the Eiger and others similar in size or even larger. I don't consider these penlights. A penlight is a light that is the diameter of a pen, not a highlighter.

The Streamlights mentioned in this thread might have promise, I'll have to check into them. Even they look a little bulky for my taste, and I prefer single AAA to double, but who knows, I might end up liking them after I look into them. If anybody knows of something else I might be interested in, given what I've said I like, please let me know.


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## rtt (Mar 19, 2010)

Check out the Peak Eiger. *Peak* Eiger *Penlight* Review - CandlePowerForums


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## vertigo_2_20 (Mar 19, 2010)

The ones in that review look much different than the ones on Peak's website. I like the idea of using a 1xAAA Matterhorn body with it, perhaps something to look into. I can't tell though what the switch is like on it. Looks like I might not like it, but it's tough to tell. In any case, it doesn't look to me like it's that much (if at all) better than what I have, certainly not worth the money considering that. However, if they do develop a variable switch as mentioned as a possibility in that review, that may be enough reason to give it a try.


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## Chrontius (Mar 20, 2010)

I believe that the switches are modular, and can be switched from head-twisty to tail-clicky.


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