# CPF will eventually linger on as an example of how BBS were killed off by over modera



## eh4 (Jul 12, 2015)

-tion.

Nothing much more to say.


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## TEEJ (Jul 12, 2015)

Eventually linger on? That's the same as enduring....right?

I think the moderation has saved this board.

I've SEEN examples of forums where the owners "were sick of PC/over moderation etc...and want a board where there's no censorship/moderation" and it was a free for all, and, ALL of them essentially peaked and crashed, BECAUSE moderation is needed, and lines need to be drawn.

Sure, some people get disciplined, and get so resentful over it that they run off with a hurt butt...but, others recognize the context of that discipline, and its overall purpose.

Those others are the ones who remain...and the ones who simply resent being told what they can or cannot do on a forum, enough, wander off.

There will ALWAYS be those who feel a board is "over moderated" or, "under moderated", and, on a case by case basis, it IS hard to do perfectly. Think of it like a professional sporting event, say a football game, with officiating. They will NOT get every call 100% right, but, they ARE trying to keep the game under control, and fair (FIFA, well, maybe another story...)....

...and that's what happens on the boards. Volunteers, do their best to try to give YOU a good experience and make the forum a good resource. You might disagree with a call, but, overall, you need officiating to keep it from decomposing into a brawl.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jul 12, 2015)

The moderation seems to ebb and flow. Lately, it's seems about right. But I've seen other times where moderation was far too heavy, and threads are closed just because a mod seems to be having a bad day. Other threads where very good info is deleted, because the mod doesn't think it belongs in that particular thread.

Perhaps the mods are in a better mood in the summer, or have better things to do, and go a little easier on the moderation.

Definitely moderation is needed, but sometimes tangents in threads are good.


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## Tac Gunner (Jul 12, 2015)

I haven't really seen where it is too over bearing and appreciate the fact the moderators don't let it turn into a free for all. I am a member of a couple of truck forums and quite using them after a couple of posts because all it was was immature people arguing over an air filter, tires, oil, etc and no facts on anything. If somebody on there did not agree with you than they would cuss you, call you everything in the book, talk trash about your family (even though they had no idea who you or they were) and before you know there would be three pages of nothing but three people acting like three year olds with no helpful info. I enjoy this forum and like being a part of it because the info is the best there is for this hobby, people have always been friendly and helpful, and threads don't turn into pissing matches about who has more machoism. For this I appreciate the moderators and what they do. If there is something besides flashlights that wants to be discussed then use the cafe sub-forum and it should be all good (as long it falls with in the rules of course)


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## StarHalo (Jul 12, 2015)

I thought the BBS died because the dial-up modem did, that's when I stopped using them..


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## Treeguy (Jul 12, 2015)

Forums that lack good, even tough, moderation eventually turn into forums with threads that are little more than insult fests.

I was a mod at a popular game site years ago and the section I ran with another guy was clearly listed as _"100% friendly... or else!"_ And it worked. People liked that there was a place to go to where there was no swearing, no insults, and no ugly arguments. There are a billion forums where you can run wild and act like an idiot, far fewer where it's friendly and comfortable.

I like friendly and comfortable. :wave:


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## 1DaveN (Jul 12, 2015)

I came here six or seven months ago while researching a light I was considering purchasing. I've found these forums to be respectful, everyone seems to get along well, and there's a wealth of accurate and educational information and well founded opinion. I guess the fact that CPF has held my interest so long past what I initially came here for speaks well for the mods (although I would argue that it's the participants that really make it). The only time I've questioned moderation is the rule against discussing use of lights for personal protection, which in my opinion is a valid topic, if not as much as it was in the 3xD days. 

I participate in some other forums where you have people who like one brand of product at war with those who like another brand. Without moderation, it's easy to have conversations degenerate into personal attacks against people who don't like what other people like. It's a credit to CPF that there's pretty much none of that here.


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## WarRaven (Jul 12, 2015)

1DaveN said:


> I came here six or seven months ago while researching a light I was considering purchasing. I've found these forums to be respectful, everyone seems to get along well, and there's a wealth of accurate and educational information and well founded opinion. I guess the fact that CPF has held my interest so long past what I initially came here for speaks well for the mods (although I would argue that it's the participants that really make it). The only time I've questioned moderation is the rule against discussing use of lights for personal protection, which in my opinion is a valid topic, if not as much as it was in the 3xD days.
> 
> I participate in some other forums where you have people who like one brand of product at war with those who like another brand. Without moderation, it's easy to have conversations degenerate into personal attacks against people who don't like what other people like. It's a credit to CPF that there's pretty much none of that here.


+10

When I first came to this forum, long ago, it wasn't so friendly.
Arrogant, snotty and rude experience was sure to be had.

Then heavy moderation came, couldn't mention a bug or issue without it being deleted, that was shocking to me, it was like a cover-up. 

Since then, this is one of the better forums I frequent and love it here now.
Good group of nice, friendly and intelligent posters, and me dragging bro curve down lol.

CPF and its members, Rock.
+100


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## Treeguy (Jul 12, 2015)

1DaveN said:


> The only time I've questioned moderation is the rule against discussing use of lights for personal protection, which in my opinion is a valid topic, if not as much as it was in the 3xD days.



Agreed.

Maybe a protected thread where you have to ask the mods for the password. I think there are many forums that have sections that are off limits without a password.

But then this site is private property and it's up to the owners, and that part of the flashlight world is not part of their groove, and that's fine.


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## more_vampires (Jul 12, 2015)

As a participant in many unmoderated forums, I must say that it's eventually an invite for spammers and a massive-alternate troll taking command by post count alone.

Real knowledge should be the requirement for being a moderator, not post count, and certainly not 61 alternate accounts.

I was in on Usenet back in the day, back when I needed a SLIP acct to connect to a unix server to rec.arts.** . Nobody knows what that is these days, it seems.

Guess I'm just a harmless "old friend." My mother used to moderate AOL soap forums and met some guy named Chuck Palahniuk.

http://chuckpalahniuk.net/

You never know the convolutions of this life, nor this connection to the entire world that was simply impossible 40 years ago.

I still remember the "human fat" saponification fiasco. It's even funnier now, that the movie is old news.

Talk about some HATE MAIL!


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## StarHalo (Jul 12, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> My mother used to moderate AOL soap forums and met some guy named Chuck Palahniuk.



Classic. First rule of soap club..

And I browsed Usenet using the AOL interface as I couldn't figure out how to do it with the modem software..


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## nbp (Jul 12, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The moderation seems to ebb and flow. Lately, it's seems about right. But I've seen other times where moderation was far too heavy, and threads are closed just because a mod seems to be having a bad day. Other threads where very good info is deleted, because the mod doesn't think it belongs in that particular thread.
> 
> Perhaps the mods are in a better mood in the summer, or have better things to do, and go a little easier on the moderation.
> 
> Definitely moderation is needed, but sometimes tangents in threads are good.



I actually agree with you on this; spot on.


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## idleprocess (Jul 12, 2015)

Then head on down to the freewheeling underground where there's minimal moderation. Only the users have largely voted with their feet and it's lightly-trafficked.


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## besafe2 (Jul 12, 2015)

From everything I can tell moderation is great here & I love coming on here. Several years ago I was one of the moderators on a very busy airline forum. I would come home from work late "dead tired " & last thing I wanted to do was get on line & read more "airline stuff ". If done right moderation requires much time & I for one appreciate & thank those who do it. All of our moderation ended one night when the owner of the forum "fired " all of us saying we over moderated & pretty much turned it over to the "inmates" & it just went crazy. I have no idea now as I'm retired & will not go there.


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## Woods Walker (Jul 12, 2015)

Over-moderation? I never had an issue with the mods or at least none that I know of. LOL! If someone thinks this place is over-moderated maybe they're doing something to attract them? Kinda like blaming the flies for being attracted to fish guts.


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## eh4 (Jul 12, 2015)

Good points guys. 
I agree there is a lot of good moderation here, and it is one of the more helpful communities. 
I was thinking of how many subforums there are, and how much livelier it seemed several years ago, and of some threads that were closed for inappropriate reasons, like a moderator Thought that the question had been answered elsewhere, and so they close the thread, provide a link, and the link goes to a necro thread on a related topic that doesn't at all answer the question... 
Anyhow, overall, great forum and good mods.
And yes I hope it lingers on and on and endures, till this whole big bandwidth fad passes. ;-)


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## nbp (Jul 12, 2015)

eh4 said:


> Good points guys.
> I agree there is a lot of good moderation here, and it is one of the more helpful communities.
> *I was thinking of how many subforums there are, and how much livelier it seemed several years ago*, and of some threads that were closed for inappropriate reasons, like a moderator Thought that the question had been answered elsewhere, and the link goes to a necro thread on a related topic... Anyhow, overall, great forum and good mods.
> And yes I hope it lingers on and on and endures, till the big bandwidth fad passes. ;-)



I also agree with this bolded point. It is quieter than it used to be, regardless of what anyone says, I feel. I had a thread about a year and a half ago that yielded some interesting posts on the subject. Where have all the good threads gone?


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## ForrestChump (Jul 13, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The moderation seems to ebb and flow. Lately, it's seems about right. But I've seen other times where moderation was far too heavy, and threads are closed just because a mod seems to be having a bad day. Other threads where very good info is deleted, because the mod doesn't think it belongs in that particular thread.
> 
> Perhaps the mods are in a better mood in the summer, or have better things to do, and go a little easier on the moderation.
> 
> Definitely moderation is needed, but sometimes tangents in threads are good.



+100 on this entire post.

Moderation has been night and day ( MUCH better ) compared to say 6-8 months ago.... 

So much so Im positive I wouldn't still be here. Now if we could just be done with CPF Mall and go back to CPFM, we'd have Utopia.

and...uhhh....this thread is in the wrong section.


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## more_vampires (Jul 13, 2015)

Woods Walker said:


> Over-moderation? I never had an issue with the mods or at least none that I know of. LOL! If someone thinks this place is over-moderated maybe they're doing something to attract them? Kinda like blaming the flies for being attracted to fish guts.



Overmoderation killed Slashdot after the DICE acquisition. I was in on Slashdot just after "Chips and Dips." Had a low 5 digit user id.

That group really liked their freedom of speech. After the "F-Beta" fiasco, I never went back. It went from good signal-to-noise ratio to worse and worse, Slashdot is dead. Long live Slashdot.

CPF is a whole lot like how Slashdot used to be, except Slashdot was self-policing. DICE kept trying to change that and the user base revolted. If it's not broken, fix it until it is... right?

Edit: Oh, and the moderation system used to allow reading posts that were modded down. Some called this "browsing at -1." You would not belieeeeeeeve what happened at the -1 level.


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## Capolini (Jul 13, 2015)

*WHEN THE POWER OF LOVE OVERCOMES THE LOVE OF POWER THEN THERE WILL BE PEACE.

JMH 1942-1970
*


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## cland72 (Jul 13, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The moderation seems to ebb and flow. Lately, it's seems about right. But I've seen other times where moderation was far too heavy, and threads are closed just because a mod seems to be having a bad day. Other threads where very good info is deleted, because the mod doesn't think it belongs in that particular thread.
> 
> Perhaps the mods are in a better mood in the summer, or have better things to do, and go a little easier on the moderation.
> 
> Definitely moderation is needed, but sometimes tangents in threads are good.



+1000. Completely agree. In the past I've certainly had my complaints, but it's been downright pleasant for the last several months.


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## FRITZHID (Jul 13, 2015)

I agree. It has improved quite a bit. At least there's some form of regulation but it hasn't been overbearing. Some tangents are allowed, other times the mods will wrangle things back on track rather than deleting posts with no warning. I've been very happy with cpf lately.


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## more_vampires (Jul 13, 2015)

FRITZHID said:


> deleting posts with no warning



That's exactly what caused the Great Slashdot Revolt. It was unnecessary as the mod system put "deleted stuff" at -1, where it could still be read by a certain kind of person. Post anonymously and browse at -1. It was like more than one website in one. Anyone who disagreed with the new admin in any way got zapped, banned, you name it. All for voicing thoughts and feelings, something that was heavily respected at that site up till then. It was the first time that sort of thing happened in the history of Slashdot. It was the end. 

Great way to destroy a community, from what I've seen. DICE's attitude was "that's okay, we'll just rebuild the user base after we get rid of all of these malcontents." Wow. How backwards can you get? Exactly why were they upset, again? The admin definitely needed to pull their head out and listen to the super-long-term mature user base, rather than zapban-hammering everyone who suggested a better way.

Dice hung themselves. I got my first ban ever from them.... for suggesting they stick with Slashcode (which all the users pretty much liked) and don't move forward with their Beta (which all the users hated, pretty much.)

It was even on topic in the thread! Boom, every post you ever made deleted and people talking to a non-present ghost in old threads.


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## more_vampires (Jul 14, 2015)

*CPF translation*: Imagine someone bought the CPF website and then banned HKJ and Selfbuilt for the formatting in their reviews. Anyone who stands up in their defense gets banned. All posts deleted. Zap banned, you never existed.

Thread integrity? What's that?

This is what DICE did to Slashdot by hiring new admin who did not fundamentally understand what was going on and how it worked, then firing and running off all of the old heads... saying "this is not our target demographic."

Now for a riddle: Who am I?   (If you know the answer, don't post it and spoil it. You know who I am.)  

Anyone "still remember?" Hope there's more than one of you that does.


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## nbp (Jul 14, 2015)

I have no clue what you are talking about. This thread is about CPF not Slicespot or whatever.


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## more_vampires (Jul 14, 2015)

We were discussing moderation, both over- and under-. I was merely relating a story of a moderated site that had a way to access unmoderated functionality for those to choose to fly that way. CPF has that as well, it's called The Underground, but it is not tightly integrated into the main site as that other one I mentioned. Downmodded CPF main content doesn't automatically become Underground content, correct?

Don't worry about my riddle. Doesn't matter now, anyway. Old news. (for Nerds, stuff that didn't matter.) 

NBP, sir, I'm not sure CPF realizes the scale of what I'm talking about.

Almost 3 million registered nerds with OCD and Asperger's both cried and suddenly cried out at once, and were suddenly silenced. The last vestiges of the Old Republic were swept away. Indiscriminite zapban-hammer is the Death Star to a community, even one of far in excess of 3 million counting the lurkers. *By some estimates, it was possible around 50 million visitors a day*... depending.

Does this sound an issue of bad users or bad moderators who fundamentally did not understand the users? I really hope it doesn't happen here. Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it... some time, some where...

It was a veritable Nerd Holocaust. Never again, I hope. Never another Nerd Alderaan. Then came the Clone Wars, Kuro5hin and others tried to become what Slashdot was. Dark times, dark times...


It was a grave disturbance in the Force.

Edit: People had been going there 10+ years, some folks met/married/raised kids because of that site. We're not talking about the inconvience of 10, 200, or even 200,000 people. There are young 'uns running around this moment who can say "Mommy and Daddy didn't meet on Facebook, they met on Slashdot. That is why I can program C++."


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## nbp (Jul 14, 2015)

Yes I get the point, I just am not sure it is an analogous situation. At any rate, if no one here is familiar with the specific details of the noted event, generalities may suffice. Ex.: Over moderation can kill a community just like undermoderation. Sounds like all things in moderation is the key. [emoji6]


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## more_vampires (Jul 14, 2015)

A deceased relative of mine (WW2 vet) had a picture drawn of him when he was in the service. It was intended to look like him when old. They got it almost dead on.

His caricacture was holding up a sign that said "*Moderation in the pursuit of vice is virtue.*"  Probably how he lived into his 70s.

I've been saying it occasionally all of my life.



nbp said:


> At any rate, if no one here is familiar with the specific details of the noted event, generalities may suffice.



<elfspeak>
 In abuse of power, it's best to remember. Some things aren't to be forgiven. United we stand, divided we fall. You aren't alone. News to history, history to legend, and legends forotten.
</elfspeak>



Is it any wonder I was among the first to go when the crackdown came? 

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." I had IP addy zapped in the Beta database for that exact post, once upon a time. Strike at the shadows and strike your own forces, Dark Side!   Call it a "friendly DOS."  Sure hope a DICE mod didn't lose anything over that. That'd be horrible! Nothing is worse than blackholing 127.0.0.1!  That's my IP address!


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## Grijon (Jul 14, 2015)

My goodness, more_vampires, have I mentioned lately how much I like you? ROFL

On topic, when I first came to CPF less than a year ago I was amazed at how heavy-handed some of the mods were, and I haven't noticed that lately.

I'd also like to express my opinion that some others of the mods have done a stellar job all along!

lovecpf


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## more_vampires (Jul 14, 2015)

Grijon said:


> My goodness, more_vampires, have I mentioned lately how much I like you? ROFL



lovecpf :thumbsup: Back at ya man, you are extremely well informed.


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## wjv (Jul 14, 2015)

There is another flashlight board where I am also a member, and some people there complain about this site and the moderation.

1) Honestly, in the three years I've been here I have seen very few cases of over-moderation. Typically the moderators only get involved when a thread goes off-topic, or if people get crank/rude, or if the discussion turns to politics or about using flashlights as weapons. Maybe this place was different 5+ years ago, but it seems pretty good now-days.

2) This board is not a "Public Forum". It is privately owned and operated. By coming here you agree to the rules set by the owner(s). If you don't like the rules, find another forum or start your own.

Do I agree with every decision regarding closing/locking a thread? No. . In fact there is a certain moderator who use to be here, but haven't seen very much of him/her lately who I am a bit glad taht he/she is not around as much. 

But then, I don't own this space. I'm merely here as a guest of our host(s).

>> There are a billion forums where you can run wild and act like an idiot, far fewer where it's friendly and comfortable.

Very True!!


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## more_vampires (Jul 14, 2015)

>Worst BBS Problem?

>Same-friending by small user-base BBS owner + guys in suits

>See also, TOTSE.

>See also, I own this land, therefore nothing else applies.



Even if it is actually your land, or theirs.










Mentor and Hobbit would not approve.





Do your rights really end where mine begin? Do mine really end where yours begin? Don't enslave me, bro! 2nd, 5th, 10th? Uhhh 18th? 53rd? uhhhh?



Wrong order? BOR? Nah, nobody knows what that is.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

Any former Phrack readers here?

Off topic: Has anyone hacked a Gibson? Mine was a late 70s maple. Sweet body, but the humbuckers were trashed. Those are actually set properly with beeswax in those years. Gave it to someone who actually played, therefore I was a hack.

On topic: HACK THE PLANET(s)! (Assuming scientists don't take away planet status from more planets. Shame if they did it to ours.)


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## night.hoodie (Jul 15, 2015)

Moderation is as necessary as administration. I think usually its communication that fails, misinterpretation or misjudging appropriatness or relevance, can attract moderation, as well as how dull a day it is and how interesting a thread it may be. The moderators (here at least) often have expert knowledge of tremendous interest to posters, but unlike mere mortal posters with expert knowledge, are like many humans as often inclined to have the last word whether moderation proper appears or not. Humans simply aren't perfect. Moderators, for their necessary and in --all my experience-- unpaid work, get partially compensated by at least having the option, often after the fact, to appear to be perfect.... posters get a few, but they have all the forum thread tools/toys. They are benevolent dictators, which lean towards the highly tolerant and easy going variety. You can't beat them.


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## dano (Jul 15, 2015)

I was picked as one of the first Mods for the original CPF, and have to say it had its ups and downs, but never board killing controversies. Historically, the light hobby and CPF has never succumbed to the overly silliness that can plague other tertiary hobbies and hobby related boards.


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## more_vampires (Jul 15, 2015)

Lol, Dano. One of the (few) problems Slashdot had was with the "alpha geek" mentality. Get those guys together and there will eventually be some nerdrage. Thankfully, CPF is super-light on nerdrage.

I think that's a good thing. I prefer non-stop jokes, myself.


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## FRITZHID (Jul 15, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Lol, Dano. One of the (few) problems Slashdot had was with the "alpha geek" mentality. Get those guys together and there will eventually be some nerdrage. Thankfully, CPF is super-light on nerdrage.
> 
> I think that's a good thing. I prefer non-stop jokes, myself.



Yah, no alpha geeks here. None. None at all.


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## more_vampires (Jul 15, 2015)

...just alpha flashaholics.  You know the ones, the guys who get into 100w+ carbon arc?


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## FRITZHID (Jul 15, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> ...just alpha flashaholics.  You know the ones, the guys who get into 100w+ carbon arc?



1st, only 100w CA?? Psh. 

2nd, i'ma electronics geek before flashaholic! Lol
If ya lived closer, I'd introduce you to my lab. Just make sure you have proper eye protection. Random arcs and lasers sometimes occur.


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## more_vampires (Jul 15, 2015)

If we ever have flashaholic GTG US SE, I'll see ya there!


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 15, 2015)

Good thread.

Bill


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## kingofwylietx (Jul 15, 2015)

Well, I like this forum just the way it is. 

CPF is the only forum that's held my interest for years. I like that they don't tolerate name calling or posting irrelevant useless drivel. This is a place I can actually learn, follow logical threads, and be entertained. 

I especially appreciate the knowledgeable posters that are found here. It's a friendly place in a less-than-friendly world. 

Change nothing, please.


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## FRITZHID (Jul 16, 2015)

kingofwylietx said:


> Well, I like this forum just the way it is.
> 
> CPF is the only forum that's held my interest for years. I like that they don't tolerate name calling or posting irrelevant useless drivel. This is a place I can actually learn, follow logical threads, and be entertained.
> 
> ...



Hear hear!


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## Kestrel (Jul 16, 2015)

Thread moved from */General Flashlight Discussion/* to */The Cafe`/*.


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## more_vampires (Jul 16, 2015)

Lol, it was just a matter of time before this thread was moderated!  Knew it!


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## WarRaven (Jul 16, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Lol, it was just a matter of time before this thread was moderated!  Knew it!


Feeling busted down a level err, cafe leveled.

The gig was up. 😀


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## FRITZHID (Jul 16, 2015)

Ha! Had to happen some time.


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## Stress_Test (Jul 16, 2015)

Well it must be better than it used to be. At its worst back when I still frequently participated, a thread like this would've been locked immediately and probably resulted in people getting banned for a week or so. 

I mostly quit participating when I realized that for every post I was wondering if what I said would get moved, deleted, or result in a ban. Not fun one bit. 

I poke my head in here every now and then and I usually leave with the same feeling that this place is dead dead dead compared to how it was at its best; I joined 02-18-2008 so I'm not one of the old-old hands here but I saw a big shift during that time at least.

Not trying to be a big downer, just calling it like I see it now. (the main reason I don't visit much anymore is the absolute saturation of the market by dozens of different brands; can't keep up anymore and things just got too gimmicky for me. I know, old fart right?!)


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## FRITZHID (Jul 16, 2015)

Stress_Test said:


> Well it must be better than it used to be. At its worst back when I still frequently participated, a thread like this would've been locked immediately and probably resulted in people getting banned for a week or so.
> 
> I mostly quit participating when I realized that for every post I was wondering if what I said would get moved, deleted, or result in a ban. Not fun one bit.
> 
> ...



Welcome to the new cpf!


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## WarRaven (Jul 16, 2015)

+1

It's a nice place with good folks.
Kind of self moderating for the most part.


I do know the dark days, all but a memory. 
More flies with honey. 😀💡


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## orbital (Jul 16, 2015)

+

Cafe has always been a relaxed & loose place to hang out and let off some steam,,
problem was, it was becoming overly moderated & the blatant deletion of posts made it frankly ____ _____*

I understand CPF is a business, but relax on the heavy handed _*Delete glove*_ in the Cafe


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jul 16, 2015)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Cafe has always been a relaxed & loose place to hang out and let off some steam,,
> problem was, it was becoming overly moderated & the blatant deletion of posts made it frankly ____ _____*
> ...



Yep! It has been much better lately, at least as far as I know. My one and only 2014 New Years resolution was to not be moderated. If memory serves me, I kept that resolution. It wasn't easy, sometimes my sense of humor won't be denied. 

~ Chance :devil:


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## nbp (Jul 16, 2015)

^ hahahaha. That is pretty funny Chance. You did have a string of deleted posts there for awhile didn't you? Lol.


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## Ladd (Jul 16, 2015)

Moderation in all things..........including moderation.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jul 17, 2015)

nbp said:


> ^ hahahaha. That is pretty funny Chance. You did have a string of deleted posts there for awhile didn't you? Lol.



A string?! More like a bloody tapestry. More than one moderator had me in his sights. Hell, most of the time I was just trying to be funny. That's how I roll. :wave:

~ Chance


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## Monocrom (Jul 17, 2015)

Actually, I killed 99.5% of the BBS back in 2012. 

The .5% of you who are left.... are responding to bots. You might be surprised who is a bot. But more surprised who isn't one.


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## more_vampires (Jul 17, 2015)

orbital said:


> +
> Cafe has always been a relaxed & loose place to hang out and let off some steam,,
> problem was, it was becoming overly moderated & the blatant deletion of posts made it frankly ____ _____*
> I understand CPF is a business, but relax on the heavy handed _*Delete glove*_ in the Cafe



*User was banned for this post.  *

On pre-DICE Slashdot, you had more to fear from 1,000 alpha geeks ripping apart every aspect of every typo on a forum that didn't permit post editing.

NO! Someone is *wrong* on the internet! I can't go to bed yet! They're still wrong!! 

It's one of the reasons that SD didn't actually need mods. Say something wrong, get called out. Keep doing it, get called an idiot. Still keep doing it, get openly called a dumb troll. No punches pulled, no holds barred. You have freedom of speech, therefore the freedom to say dumb things. The freedom of listening needs to be on the Bill of Rights.

CPF is a lot more like a friendly pub. SD was one of the first major nerd war sites.

Ebaums and Something Awful were a bunch of n00bz. SD had a specific non-name for activism.


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## WarRaven (Jul 17, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> NO! Someone is *wrong* on the internet! I can't go to bed yet! They're still wrong!!
> 
> [/COLOR]


+1
Lmao, I can just see that on so many different forums.
Even in real life in groups, one person says something slightly off, and suddenly everyone is on them.

Thankfully, I can edit my list of typos here. ☺
Dang, quoted a colour quote, sigh I'm done for. (Canadian, Colour)


----------



## Str8stroke (Jul 17, 2015)

I like the mods moderations most of the time. Helps keep me in line. It can be hard reading on a iPhone with reading dyslexia! Sometimes, I have to re read things several times. Or I jumble up what I read and respond to the wrong part of the OP topic. 
It also makes it hard to read long posts with no paragraph breaks. If u notice my posts are usually short or have lots of breaks. I do it for me, but I am sure there are other folks who have the same or worse problems. 

In the past, I posted in the wrong section or didn't read something correctly and it got fixed automatically or deleted with no warning or explanation. It can sometimes hurt your feelings but that is life. I did send a message to one of the mods in the past. I asked what I did wrong. They were surprisingly helpful and explained things well. I was a low post member at the time and it probably looked like I was doing thigs on purpose. 

I also get it, they don't have time to play games with people.
I have also learned here that there are so many different languages that humor doesn't always translate well. Not to mention, regional jokes or puns arent always funny to everyone. 

The best part of this forum is that there is little petty, out of hand, childish bickering that goes on for pages. Now, I love to cuss. I just prefer to do it at work and home. Lol 
But I have probably digressed a little. 

:banned::banned:


----------



## more_vampires (Jul 17, 2015)

Str8stroke said:


> It also makes it hard to read long posts with no paragraph breaks.



Ahh yes, the dreaded "wall of text" syndrome. Combine with a rant and maybe a few shots of liquor and next you have a flame war. 

BTDT more than I'd like to admit.



> The best part of this forum is that there is little petty, out of hand, childish bickering that goes on for pages.



I can call you a doodie-head and say I endorse Ultrafire products, if you like.


----------



## Str8stroke (Jul 17, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> I can call you a doodie-head and say I endorse Ultrafire products, if you like.



lol! 
In that case you would probably want to endorse Uranusfire!


----------



## more_vampires (Jul 17, 2015)

Str8stroke said:


> lol! In that case you would probably want to endorse Uranusfire!


I have one of those, their big dive light. It's pretty nice, actually.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Jul 17, 2015)

Str8stroke said:


> I like the mods moderations most of the time. Helps keep me in line. It can be hard reading on a iPhone with reading dyslexia! Sometimes, I have to re read things several times. Or I jumble up what I read and respond to the wrong part of the OP topic.
> It also makes it hard to read long posts with no paragraph breaks. If u notice my posts are usually short or have lots of breaks. I do it for me, but I am sure there are other folks who have the same or worse problems.
> 
> In the past, I posted in the wrong section or didn't read something correctly and it got fixed automatically or deleted with no warning or explanation. It can sometimes hurt your feelings but that is life. I did send a message to one of the mods in the past. I asked what I did wrong. They were surprisingly helpful and explained things well. I was a low post member at the time and it probably looked like I was doing thigs on purpose.
> ...



What a great read! 

Thinking back to when I first became a member, I remember reading people's posts being discounted and their low post count being mentioned as why they didn't know what they were writing about. That was really offensive to me. I'm thankful I haven't read any of that type of snobbery for many years. 

~ Chance


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Jul 17, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> I can call you a doodie-head and say I endorse Ultrafire products, if you like.



What about me, name-caller boy? My favorite work light is a Farka. Knock yourself out! :nana: :laughing:

~ Chance


----------



## more_vampires (Jul 17, 2015)

Lol, I had a double take. I thought you said that your favorite flashlight was Fark.com for a second there. Heh.


----------



## magellan (Jul 17, 2015)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> What about me, name-caller boy? My favorite work light is a Farka. Knock yourself out! :nana: :laughing:
> 
> ~ Chance



Don't farta on my Farka!


----------



## watt4 (Jul 19, 2015)

Str8stroke said:


> lol!
> In that case you would probably want to endorse Uranusfire!




Craig? Is that you? 



more_vampires said:


> saponification fiasco.



"saponification" is the only thing I remember from CHEM 115.








you want butthurt mods? let new corporate owners reinstate banned members who will buy advertising. I am watching this unfold on another large forum.


----------



## more_vampires (Jul 20, 2015)

Leech water through white wood ash, mix with a fat. Now you have soap!

If this is your first Soap Club, then you HAVE to soap!  It's like the first monkeys shot off into space! 

His name was Robert Paulsen.


----------



## FRITZHID (Jul 20, 2015)

His name is Robert Paulson.
His name is Robert Paulson.


----------



## more_vampires (Jul 20, 2015)

Saponine occurs naturally in water chestnuts. Extract it by thinly slicing them and leeching water through a stack of them. You can use a soap bubble blower wand to blow bubbles with the liquid.  You can use it fresh like soap, bacteria want to invade if you let the solution sit at all.

The first rule of Soap Club is to talk about it. The second rule of Soap Club....


----------



## LGT (Jul 20, 2015)

I think the Mods do a decent job at trying to keep this forum civil, without antagonizing members.
On the other hand, some administrators......


----------



## Greta (Jul 20, 2015)

LGT said:


> I think the Mods do a decent job at trying to keep this forum civil, without antagonizing members.
> On the other hand, some administrators......



Like who? Name names...


----------



## TEEJ (Jul 20, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Saponine occurs naturally in water chestnuts. Extract it by thinly slicing them and leeching water through a stack of them. You can use a soap bubble blower wand to blow bubbles with the liquid.  You can use it fresh like soap, bacteria want to invade if you let the solution sit at all.
> 
> The first rule of Soap Club is to talk about it. The second rule of Soap Club....




Shut UP.

There is no such thing as soap club.



And we're kicking you out if you mention it again.


----------



## FRITZHID (Jul 20, 2015)

TEEJ said:


> Shut UP.
> 
> There is no such thing as soap club.
> 
> ...



Keep it up and someone may take your bulbs!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Jul 20, 2015)

LGT said:


> I think the Mods do a decent job at trying to keep this forum civil, without antagonizing members.
> On the other hand, some administrators......





Greta said:


> Like who? Name names...


 

Oh, LGT was jus foolin about. No need to go using the Poke2 smilie. 

~ Chance


----------



## TEEJ (Jul 20, 2015)

FRITZHID said:


> Keep it up and someone may take your bulbs!



In clubs that would not include non-existant soap clubs, if you take my bulbs, I'm actually just taking my own bulbs...because you'd be me.


----------



## Monocrom (Jul 21, 2015)

Greta said:


> Like who? Name names...



Maybe he thinks this is BladeForums?


----------



## Greta (Jul 22, 2015)

Monocrom said:


> Maybe he thinks this is BladeForums?



... or someone just being a bit trollish. If they're going to make an accusation, they need to stand by it and provide proof to back it up. Otherwise it's nothing but trolling... and that *IS* a ban-able offense. 

Still waiting for those names... :candle: ... not holding my breath... :ironic:


----------



## orbital (Jul 22, 2015)

Greta said:


> ... or someone just being a bit trollish. If they're going to make an accusation, they need to stand by it and provide proof to back it up. Otherwise it's nothing but trolling... and that *IS* a ban-able offense.
> 
> Still waiting for those names... :candle: ... not holding my breath... :ironic:



+

*Empath*

.... maybe I'll get banned for that


----------



## Greta (Jul 22, 2015)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> *Empath*
> 
> .... maybe I'll get banned for that



Nope!

Examples please?


----------



## orbital (Jul 22, 2015)

Greta said:


> Nope!
> 
> Examples please?



+

Endless posts deleted for not much more than him not liking the post, or it rubbed him the wrong way.
.. not only mine, but other members in which I was thoroughly pissed off to see their posts disappear

I really don't care if Empath doesn't like me, a post or whatever is bugging him in general,, he wildly over-steppes his authority (maybe it's control thing/power or lack of??

Trust me when I say there are other people here who think the same


----------



## FRITZHID (Jul 22, 2015)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Endless posts deleted for not much more than him not liking the post, or it rubbed him the wrong way.
> .. not only mine, but other members in which I was thoroughly pissed off to see their posts disappear
> ...



Agreed.


----------



## more_vampires (Jul 22, 2015)

orbital said:


> Endless posts deleted for not much more than him not liking the post, or it rubbed him the wrong way.
> .. not only mine, but other members in which I was thoroughly pissed off to see their posts disappear



Question sir, how do you know it was Empath when the posts/threads were simply gone? I've seen some interesting threads vanish before, one example in mind was about custom making incan bulbs. I noticed because I was subscribed and really wanted to read more discussion on crazy people trying to make incan bulbs.

Kind of hard to give a link to the thread when it isn't there anymore. :shrug:


----------



## LGT (Jul 22, 2015)

Greta said:


> ... or someone just being a bit trollish. If they're going to make an accusation, they need to stand by it and provide proof to back it up. Otherwise it's nothing but trolling... and that *IS* a ban-able offense.
> 
> Still waiting for those names... :candle: ... not holding my breath... :ironic:


I was thinking of you when I made that post. A few months ago I started a thread about not watching the nightly news because I feel they have an agenda with what they report, anybody else not listening to big brother. 
You had the first response to the extent of being tired of uninformed people with their head in the sand. The problem is too much ignorance, not big brother. I felt this comment was directly aimed towards me, and stated so in another post. Your reply to that post was along the line of "did I say YOU anywhere in my post. Paranoia much." I felt like that's just a little too much of a taunting response to come from an Administrator.Just my opinion.


----------



## Greta (Jul 22, 2015)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Endless posts deleted for not much more than him not liking the post, or it rubbed him the wrong way.
> .. not only mine, but other members in which I was thoroughly pissed off to see their posts disappear
> ...



Would you mind providing links to examples of this? I am able to see posts that have been deleted so I would like to check this out if you wouldn't mind? Thank you...


----------



## Greta (Jul 22, 2015)

LGT said:


> I was thinking of you when I made that post. A few months ago I started a thread about not watching the nightly news because I feel they have an agenda with what they report, anybody else not listening to big brother.
> You had the first response to the extent of being tired of uninformed people with their head in the sand. The problem is too much ignorance, not big brother. I felt this comment was directly aimed towards me, and stated so in another post. Your reply to that post was along the line of "did I say YOU anywhere in my post. Paranoia much." I felt like that's just a little too much of a taunting response to come from an Administrator.Just my opinion.



AH! I remember that! And here it is:



LGT said:


> About three years ago I just plain stopped watching the local and national news broadcasts. Way too much negativity, which can affect your state of mind and perception on how the world really is. I've also stopped reading newspapers for the same reason. The spin they put out reflects their political ideology, and they want you to think the same way. Anybody else fed up with what big brother is telling you?



You asked a question - _"Anybody else fed up with what big brother is telling you?" _To which I replied:



Greta said:


> In truth, I'm kinda fed up with people who are uninformed. Too many people with their head in the sand. I don't mind if people have opinions or their own "spin" as long as it's informed. The problem is too much ignorance not "big brother".



To which *YOU* replied:



LGT said:


> How is it that you come to the conclusion that I'm "uninformed?"
> There are "unbiased" news outlets to get information about what's going on in the world. I just don't think the nightly news or local newspapers will give you that.



YOU accused ME of calling you uniformed. I did not. Your accusation smacked of paranoia and was totally false. I do not let things like that stand when they are aimed at me. So indeed I did post the following in response:



Greta said:


> Where did I say **YOU** are uninformed? Paranoia much?



And I stand by it. I accused you of nothing. YOU accused ME of saying something I did not in any way, shape or form.


----------



## WarRaven (Jul 22, 2015)

I'm telling you man,... that mouse was this big!!!!!


----------



## etc (Jul 23, 2015)

someone posted a link to a manufacturer's site or such, it got zapped, I posted (respectfully) that the original post was in the best interest of the community - I would like to learn more about things, not be restricted, and got banned by the Moderator for a week or so.

That was about 4 years ago.

I thought that was vindictive and completely uncalled for, given I have been been here for a decade. I quit actively contributing anything substantial since then. I didn't think a public announcement was necessary, I just quietly went into the lurk mode, if that. Maybe I will reassess it at some point.

Over moderation is not a morale boost.


----------



## more_vampires (Jul 23, 2015)

etc, you describe the difference between Lassiez-faire and Spanish Inquisition as moderation styles. There's all kinds out there.


----------



## Greta (Jul 23, 2015)

etc said:


> someone posted a link to a manufacturer's site or such, it got zapped, I posted (respectfully) that the original post was in the best interest of the community - I would like to learn more about things, not be restricted, and got banned by the Moderator for a week or so.
> 
> _*That was about 4 years ago.*_
> 
> ...



(Emphasis mine.) So something that happened to you 4 years ago is determining your opinion today?


----------



## scs (Jul 23, 2015)

Greta said:


> AH! I remember that! And here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Does it suffice to say that LGT inferred what Greta didn't imply?
When my statements can be and are misinterpreted and someone feels wronged or is offended, I politely clarify what I actually mean. If the problem is not with my statement, but the person is just too sensitive, then it's a big fu, I don't have to explain myself, unless you're a friend of course.


----------



## scs (Jul 23, 2015)

Having said that I would have interpreted greta's response the same way LGT did.


----------



## etc (Jul 23, 2015)

Greta said:


> (Emphasis mine.) So something that happened to you 4 years ago is determining your opinion today?



Greta,
No, it doesn't. Logic suggests that if it did, I would not be writing this.


----------



## Greta (Jul 23, 2015)

etc said:


> Greta,
> No, it doesn't. Logic suggests that if it did, I would not be writing this.



That's pretty much what I thought - thank you... 

But this is a perfect example of where someone says something that can, and often *IS*, interpreted as something recent or even on-going. And in truth, it happened years ago. I see often on other forums (and here too) complaints of CPF "always being down". And then others jump on and agree, etc. Years ago? Yup! But now? Nope. I see people complaining about Norm's moderating and how heavy-handed he is, etc. etc. Norm passed away back in April... yet some still complain. :shakehead

I think many of those who have been around for more than a few years can agree that a lot has changed on CPF - hell, *I* have changed! Why? I dunno. Priorities have changed with age? Who knows. But the CPF of today is not the CPF of years ago. Many complaints of years ago do not exist today. I think it is more productive for all of us (CPF as a whole) to look at where we are today and how far we've come rather than reference how things were *YEARS* ago.


----------



## more_vampires (Jul 23, 2015)

Greta said:


> I see people complaining about Norm's moderating and how heavy-handed he is, etc. etc. Norm passed away back in April... yet some still complain. :shakehead



 Missed that one until now.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Jul 23, 2015)

Who among us hasn't said or done something egregious to a family member, friend or total stranger?

I know I have. Denying it, I should be considered a fool at best, or more appropriately, a damn liar!

What's the point? We all make mistakes. 

During my five years of membership I've had occasional interaction with the Moderators and Administrators. Some of it was called for, some of it was not. At times it seemed I was being singled-out for much more attention than I thought fair or necessary. At other times the person/s responsible for the aforementioned attention went out of their way to explain their action and/or accommodate a request I'd made.

What's the point? Moderators and Administrators are human. They sometimes make mistakes. If you think that's happened it's best to PM your thoughts in a respectful manner. If the situation isn't resolved to your satisfaction, best to forgive, forget and move on. :grouphug:

~ Chance


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Jul 23, 2015)

Greta said:


> ...Norm passed away back in April...



 Sad news indeed. 

~ Chance


----------



## WarRaven (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm going to focus on the now as Greta suggests.

This place and members is great these days, friendly and knowledgeable funny people here.
It's not like it was back a while ago, not by a long shot.

So enjoy the now. 👍


----------



## more_vampires (Jul 23, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> I'm going to focus on the now as Greta suggests.
> 
> This place and members is great these days, friendly and knowledgeable funny people here.
> It's not like it was back a while ago, not by a long shot.
> ...


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-statistic-And-why-you-should-enjoy-every-day!

Every day, no days off.


----------



## WarRaven (Jul 23, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-statistic-And-why-you-should-enjoy-every-day!


I can't read that, sorry bro.
I know the gist and believe it too.


----------



## etc (Jul 23, 2015)

Greta said:


> That's pretty much what I thought - thank you...
> 
> But this is a perfect example of where someone says something that can, and often *IS*, interpreted as something recent or even on-going. And in truth, it happened years ago. I see often on other forums (and here too) complaints of CPF "always being down". And then others jump on and agree, etc. Years ago? Yup! But now? Nope. I see people complaining about Norm's moderating and how heavy-handed he is, etc. etc. Norm passed away back in April... yet some still complain. :shakehead
> 
> I think many of those who have been around for more than a few years can agree that a lot has changed on CPF - hell, *I* have changed! Why? I dunno. Priorities have changed with age? Who knows. But the CPF of today is not the CPF of years ago. Many complaints of years ago do not exist today. I think it is more productive for all of us (CPF as a whole) to look at where we are today and how far we've come rather than reference how things were *YEARS* ago.




Greta,

You are right. I hear you loud and clear -- thank you for the message.


----------



## LGT (Jul 23, 2015)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Who among us hasn't said or done something egregious to a family member, friend or total stranger?
> 
> I know I have. Denying it, I should be considered a fool at best, or more appropriately, a damn liar!
> 
> ...


Well said Chance.
I should have PM'd Greta to resolve any issues I had, instead of airing it out here.
And my apologies to the OP for disrupting an otherwise nice thread to read through.


----------



## Monocrom (Jul 23, 2015)

Greta said:


> ... or someone just being a bit trollish. If they're going to make an accusation, they need to stand by it and provide proof to back it up. Otherwise it's nothing but trolling... and that *IS* a ban-able offense.
> 
> Still waiting for those names... :candle: ... not holding my breath... :ironic:




If there is an issue with a certain Admin., PMing you about it would be the right way to go. Not saying everyone with access to the Ban Button is 100% fair, 100% of the time. We're all human and make mistakes. But if there's a pattern of behavior that some feel is regularly below the standards that members should expect from a moderator or admin., once again; they should PM you about it.


----------



## nbp (Jul 23, 2015)

Wait, Norm passed away?! I noticed he's been missing for awhile but didn't know why. Why wasn't there a thread for us to express our condolences? I mean, whether I agreed with him or not with regards to flashlights has no bearing on the fact that I feel sad for the family and friends that lost a loved one when he passed. Sorry to hear that. RIP Norm. :candle: 

Ok, can you confirm that DM51 is not dead, please? That would be too much for one day. I miss him.  

This has been a fascinating thread. To be honest, I think there is some genuine healing going on here. I like it. It feels good.


----------



## gunga (Jul 23, 2015)

What? Norm has passed?!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Jul 23, 2015)

LGT said:


> Well said Chance.


Thank you.



LGT said:


> I should have PM'd Greta to resolve any issues I had, instead of airing it out here.



My post wasn't directed at anyone in particular. No more so than to myself.




LGT said:


> And my apologies to the OP for disrupting an otherwise nice thread to read through.



I'm of the opinion your post has given rise to much good content. 

~ Chance


----------



## orbital (Jul 23, 2015)

+

Norm was genuinely one of the guys,, I have a very hard time believing someone here complained about him.
..at most, he'll tell you your image is hotlinked  that's it

Norm is missed


----------



## Greta (Jul 23, 2015)

nbp said:


> .... Why wasn't there a thread for us to express our condolences? ..... RIP Norm. :candle:



It was his wishes that it not go public. He conveyed those wishes to a fellow CPF'er before his passing. The beans, so to speak, were spilled HERE and in subsequent posts though. And to be honest - I only mentioned it here because I didn't want someone to make a comment to which I would not have responded very well. I miss Norm every day - he was a very good friend to me and made me smile and laugh on a daily basis around here. I think there are very few here who really knew the kind of guy Norm was. He was a very gentle and kind soul... 



nbp said:


> Ok, can you confirm that DM51 is not dead, please? That would be too much for one day. I miss him.



I have no idea where DM51 is. He and I had a falling out over how a few things were being handled here and he left. And that really is all there is/was to it. :shrug:


----------



## magellan (Jul 23, 2015)

Very sorry to hear of Norm's passing. I had the pleasure of visiting him at his house in Warragul, Gippsland, outside of Melbourne, early in March on our trip to New Zealand and Australia from the U.S. At the time he was still doing pretty well and we had a nice dinner together at a local restaurant, talking about Oz and flashlights and whatever. I was going to take the late train back to Melbourne after dinner, but he graciously offered to put me up at his house. Back at his house, we got on the CPF for a bit and he gave me the nickname "Honorary Aussie," which I greatly appreciated, as I have been a fan of Oz since I was a boy. Although I only knew him for a short time, I can say Norm was a great guy and truly the salt of the earth. He will be missed.


----------



## nbp (Jul 23, 2015)

Greta said:


> It was his wishes that it not go public. He conveyed those wishes to a fellow CPF'er before his passing. The beans, so to speak, were spilled HERE and in subsequent posts though. And to be honest - I only mentioned it here because I didn't want someone to make a comment to which I would not have responded very well. I miss Norm every day - he was a very good friend to me and made me smile and laugh on a daily basis around here. I think there are very few here who really knew the kind of guy Norm was. He was a very gentle and kind soul...
> 
> 
> I have no idea where DM51 is. He and I had a falling out over how a few things were being handled here and he left. And that really is all there is/was to it. :shrug:



Thanks for posting the link - I don't follow the GTG threads for other areas, and did not see that. It's always a shame to lose a member of the community. Regardless of how we felt about someone's opinions on the boards, I think we all can agree it is sad to see them go. Sometimes we get tough behind our keyboards and let things ruffle our feathers a little too much; I know I have at times. But in reality, all the members are just people, like any of us. We all have our good traits and our idiosyncrasies, and we all have personal lives (beyond our hobby forum) that influence who we are and how we act. We never really can know what others are dealing with that may make them act the way they do. Maybe we can all practice cutting each other more slack at times and just "let it ride" as McGizmo says. 

I'm sorry to hear about David. I know there were others who did not care for him, but I personally enjoyed corresponding with him from time to time and Kestrel and I often PM'd each other links to hilarious posts from him when he was on the warpath slaying trolls. I'm still not convinced he wasn't actually some advanced form of AI, and someone has simply powered him down... :huh: David, if you're out there, still lurking, we'd love to have you back. :buddies:

Also, thank you Greta for leaving this thread open. I think it speaks to what you mentioned before about CPF and also individual members, constantly changing, and usually for the better. Some time ago a thread mentioning moderation would have been locked down in 3...2...1. But you left it open, and I think some constructive discussion has resulted. If people can be respectful and decent, open conversation can be a very good thing, even if the opinions shared are not always what we might like to hear at first. I feel that the overall environment here has lightened up a little lately, and it has been pleasant. I firmly believe corporate culture comes top-down, so I think that that is a direct reflection of a more positive attitude coming from the admin/mod staff. I know you (Greta) have had a variety of challenges in your personal life over the years, as most all of us do. Perhaps at times that came through here on the boards, giving some who had limited experience with you the impression that you were not so friendly.... I don't know. And maybe now things have settled down a bit for you, and that is now coming through! I hope that that is the case, and life is a bit more peaceful for you. At any rate, regardless of the reasons, I have appreciated your generally gentle tone lately, and I hope that it continues to filter down to a gentle and friendly community as we know this is.


----------



## Greta (Jul 23, 2015)

Thank you for your post Nick... 

Yes, my life has been turned upside down in more ways than I can even begin to say just in the past 4 years. I really do have enough to write a book. The past 4 months though have been what has finally knocked me on my *** though. But that is life... I'm not special. Perhaps everything combined has led me closer to where McGizmo is... my theme songs now are "Shake it off" and "Let it Go"...


----------



## etc (Jul 23, 2015)

I had no issues with Norm and certainly am sorry to hear about his passing on. 

Thanks for the link.


----------



## Monocrom (Jul 24, 2015)

At the risk of turning this into a tribute thread about Norm.... He was a great guy. Easily missed. It's a blur how I found out about Norm. I think a fellow CPFer PMed me the news. But I honestly can't recall. I do recall that Norm was fair minded and extremely well liked. Rest In Peace.


----------



## Kestrel (Jul 24, 2015)

magellan said:


> [...] Back at his house, we got on the CPF for a bit and he gave me the nickname "Honorary Aussie," which I greatly appreciated, as I have been a fan of Oz since I was a boy.


 Aha, I've noticed that a few times by now when browsing the forum and wondered about it.
CPF doesn't distribute custom handles very often so that was a very nice gesture. RIP Norm.


----------



## magellan (Jul 25, 2015)

Yes. And it was the perfect choice for me.


----------



## Unicorn (Jul 26, 2015)

Moderation is needed. Lines need to be drawn and rules need to be made, followed, and enforced.
However, there are a couple times when it's done with a bit more a whip than is needed. It happens. Hell, I've made a complaint about it once. Not just that the rules were being strictly being enforced, my issue was that the mod, and another member were being a bit um... rude themselves in enforcing the rules. Since then either they've mellowed, or I've just accepted it as the norm and don't even notice it anymore.

Now, having said my little whine, this place isn't bad at all. Never has been. There are places that are essentially the playground of the owner... and that's cool as long as his buddies stick around. They tend to chase away so many members that the boards fail quickly.
Basically the opposite of the free for all type places that also fail quickly.

I've been here since almost the beginning... and it's a great place to just hang out.


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## Robocop (Jul 27, 2015)

I must say that I am a member of many forums and CPF has always been the best. It has also been the longest running for me and to this day I learn something new about my hobby each time I visit here. I was always amazed at the sheer amount of information available here to us all and better yet it is free to obtain. Yes not one of us has to pay a single dime to enjoy this place and personally the amount of information, and friends made, here is priceless to me. I have hundreds of lights ranging from old classics to latest and greatest. Every single light I have was a result of reading about it here first then using one of our dealers to buy from. The sheer volume of toys given to me from CPF is worth much to me and I am sure all members can say the same. Yes all that is easily worth overlooking any minor issues through the years and still amazes me it has all been free to visit here any time I wish.

My family life has had some rough times within the last few years and CPF was always there for me to lose myself in when I needed to just relax. Yes CPF has had some issues along the way however that was long ago and today we all enjoy this place due to the efforts of many along the way. Moderators come in all shapes and sizes and we are subject to good days and bad. Most times I actually forget that I am a moderator as I will sign on and quickly get lost reading about the latest cool toy I want. Only after hours of reading do I remember that I am actually expected to help keep threads on track.

My point with all this rambling is to say that mods are actually flashaholics too. We still want to be one of the gang and participate in threads just like everyone else. I have my favorites that I will quickly defend however will do so in a professional way. There is nothing wrong with a good debate on our shared interests and nothing wrong with a disagreement however at times the issue takes a personal tone and will disrupt the group. We must see the big picture and the group as a whole is the most important issue.

So to sum it up look at what we all have available to us. We have the largest resource of flashlight related information at our disposal. Do any type of google search on lights and CPF will always be on that list. We have all this and some amazing dealers, long standing members, amazing modding services, custom makers, and yes again it is all free for us all to enjoy. Surely as a group with such shared passion we can understand the benefits of CPF and also appreciate the effort it takes to bring this to us.

So my advice is enjoy this place every day and understand mods are flashlight geeks too. We all have our own unique style and I am sure sometimes we may ruffle some feathers. That's ok sometimes things happen however again there is always a way to move forward and just be flashlight geeks together. So in case you have not figured it out yet my mod style is to write pages of stuff and try to sound smarter than I am....HA. Seriously I could go on and on however for now will say CPF still does it for me and we do have a wonderful playground for us all.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Aug 12, 2015)

A show of hands if you're surprised/disappointed that a thread about a dude with a flashlight stuck up his bum is being allowed to remain in the Café. :wave: 

~ Chance


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## cland72 (Aug 12, 2015)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> A show of hands if you're surprised/disappointed that a thread about a dude with a flashlight stuck up his bum is being allowed to remain in the Café. :wave:
> 
> ~ Chance



To be fair, it was locked by Empath within 2.5 hours. I think it's being left there instead of deleted, similar to a rancher who hangs the carcass of a coyote on his fence post to deter other coyotes


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## Kestrel (Aug 12, 2015)

Simply deleting a thread provides no info to members (and lets people complain about threads that vanish - that sort of correspondence is tedious to handle BTW).

Please note that the thread closure in question provides direction as to where that topic can be discussed - which is one of the ways that CPF Staff can provide assistance to members.
I'm always surprised by the folks who just don't seem to understand that aspect - it's always easier in the long run to get folks going in the right direction than it is to clean up messes after-the-fact.


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## more_vampires (Aug 12, 2015)

Robocop said:


> I was always amazed at the sheer amount of information available here to us all and better yet it is free to obtain. Yes not one of us has to pay a single dime to enjoy this place and personally the amount of information, and friends made, here is priceless to me.


Yes, sir. I think this illustrates the strength of the "Open Source" mindset. If I post schematics of a circuit I cooked up and test results, then EVERYONE on CPF has access to that. It's the Open Source way. Closed source would be something like "you must pay $5/month to be able to search and this particular thread with the schematics costs $5 to subscribe and none of it is accessible through open web search." I think that CPF would have never taken off if they tried to monetize absolutely everything, this is what killed the Ubuntu linux distro (though it still staggers along, zombie-like.)


Kestrel said:


> Simply deleting a thread provides no info to members (and lets people complain about threads that vanish - that sort of correspondence is tedious to handle BTW).
> 
> Please note that the thread closure in question provides direction as to where that topic can be discussed - which is one of the ways that CPF Staff can provide assistance to members.
> I'm always surprised by the folks who just don't seem to understand that aspect - it's always easier in the long run to get folks going in the right direction than it is to clean up messes after-the-fact.


Excellent point. There were some threads in the market place that were pretty much zapped "removed by admin." I felt a bit of a chill, after all... what had the poster done incorrectly? What rule did he violate? Will the same thing happen to me? How can I avoid this?

Zapping everything doesn't educate the users as to the reason for the deletion.


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## KITROBASKIN (Aug 12, 2015)

This thread is a great example of one aspect that CPF gets so RIGHT. The owner took advantage of, what sounded like a complaint-thread, and allowed it to turn into an informative one.

Seems like we can all agree that Norm was looking out for CPF to maintain high quality. Personally, I think he was also looking out for me at times, when I posted things that were perhaps, a bit unbecoming. He has my respect.


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## more_vampires (Aug 12, 2015)

KITROBASKIN said:


> This thread is a great example of one aspect that CPF gets so RIGHT. The owner took advantage of, what sounded like a complaint-thread, and allowed it to turn into an informative one.


We can start complaining, if you like! 



KITROBASKIN said:


> Seems like we can all agree that Norm was looking out for CPF to maintain high quality. Personally, I think he was also looking out for me at times, when I posted things that were perhaps, a bit unbecoming. He has my respect.


More importantly than that, to me: He joked with me. He said funny things... to me, me specifically.

I'll always remember him for that. Personal touch.


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## Search (Aug 12, 2015)

Since I've joined I've always respected the way the forums were ran. Not that Greta or the admins need it but I have always thought they did a very good job of running the community.

It isn't as big as it was in 2008 - 2009 when I was most active but looking around there is a lot of new blood. It's interesting that absolutely every member I've seen post in the past few days that has a join date around mine or before I still remember having conversations with. There's something keeping everyone around.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Aug 12, 2015)

cland72 said:


> To be fair, it was locked by Empath within 2.5 hours. I think it's being left there instead of deleted, similar to a rancher who hangs the carcass of a coyote on his fence post to deter other coyotes



The subject matter is almost as appealing as a coyote carcass hanging on a fence post. The imagery the thread provides, not even close. Family friendly? I don't think so.

~ Chance


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Aug 12, 2015)

Time for me to cool my jets.

Kestrel, thanks much for the gentle reminder.



~ Chance


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## Kestrel (Aug 12, 2015)

Chance, PM sent.


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## bykfixer (May 1, 2016)

Just wanted to say thank you to the staff here. 

Over mod? Under mod? 
I suppose that is subjective.

Whatever folks think in that regard the site in general is kept neat and tidy. 

I like how lively debates can and do occur without a heavy hand being applied until it strays to another zip code away from the original topic, or it degrades into a drama festival of personal attacks. Then typically a gentle warning takes place. 

I gotta be honest. Many times I have typed out a guns of Navorone response...




They were either erased or edited to something less pilathering. 

At first it was for fear of _thuh ban hammah_, but soon became a habit, that is repeated at other sites as well. 
Good manners is a die-ing art form. CPF is a sorely needed dose of oxygen to the forum world.

So again I say thank you to the staff.


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## Sean (May 1, 2016)

I've been here a long time (though I don't post much anymore) and have seen many things, both good and bad take place here and on other forums. I have to admit that when I think about "community" and discussion, CPF if the first thing that comes to mind. I've met lots of great people here through the years and have never seen, or been part of a more enjoyable community than this one. This wouldn't be true if it wasn't for all the hard work done by the admins and mods. Thanks to all those who have made this such a great place!


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## KITROBASKIN (May 1, 2016)

This thread is a great example of how some open criticism of CPF is allowed to flare, then goes dim, because of the reality of excellence contained herein. It also gives us a chance to see who the beezers and cawbs are, letting them reveal the content of their character (at least at that moment in time)

scout24 and NBP are some seriously good assets to the already capable moderator team.


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## Monocrom (May 5, 2016)

KITROBASKIN said:


> This thread is a great example of how some open criticism of CPF is allowed to flare, then goes dim, because of the reality of excellence contained herein. It also gives us a chance to see who the beezers and cawbs are, letting them reveal the content of their character (at least at that moment in time)
> 
> scout24 and NBP are some seriously good assets to the already capable moderator team.




+1

An excellent example overall of how to moderate properly. I doubt that what occurred twice on EDCF would ever happen on CPF. One is an example of doing things the right way. The other, despite my respect for and acquaintanceship with Jon, an example of the mistakes to avoid.


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## Lynx_Arc (May 5, 2016)

StarHalo said:


> I thought the BBS died because the dial-up modem did, that's when I stopped using them..


The BBS died because of the internet as I was once a paying member of a large BBS in the early 90s as at that time it was the only way to cheaply get software patches for games and other things cheaply when I got the internet I still was using dialup and could download patches for free there.


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## Lynx_Arc (May 5, 2016)

Stress_Test said:


> Well it must be better than it used to be. At its worst back when I still frequently participated, a thread like this would've been locked immediately and probably resulted in people getting banned for a week or so.
> 
> I mostly quit participating when I realized that for every post I was wondering if what I said would get moved, deleted, or result in a ban. Not fun one bit.
> 
> ...


yes it is very hard to keep up with things it used to be when I started here that there would be a half dozen threads about a few interesting lights that were for sale and now there is so many lights with a dozen new ones coming out each month that nobody can keep up with anything at all plus a lot more sales and dealers threads in the mix I used to spend an hour a day average on here reading now I spend a few hours a week if that because of the overwhelming amount of stuff here to sift through to get to the "good stuff" that I like.


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## Lynx_Arc (May 5, 2016)

I don't think CPF will ever die as long as we have Greta at the helm, but I've been at several "chat" places and clients and forums and such over the last 20 years that have vanished for good for many reasons and the most common reason is instead of truly being a "fan" of the topic at hand and wanting everyone to share in that you get folks running the show that aren't as much fans but rather in it for the money or hired help that do things thinking of making it easier for themselves or to make money etc while CPF has gone this way and that way it always came back to the love of flicking a switch in the dark and then.... SEEING what is up.


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## StarHalo (May 6, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> The BBS died because of the internet as I was once a paying member of a large BBS in the early 90s as at that time it was the only way to cheaply get software patches for games and other things cheaply when I got the internet I still was using dialup and could download patches for free there.



I unsuccessfully read that sentence three times, it sounds sincere though.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (May 6, 2016)

StarHalo said:


> I unsuccessfully read that sentence three times, it sounds sincere though.



:laughing: See? That's why I think it's wise to either stop posting or stop drinking after two beers. Punctuation goes right out the window. 

!? It sounded sincere! Be careful reading that sentence out loud. Your wife might think you're having a stroke. 

~ Chance


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## Lynx_Arc (May 6, 2016)

StarHalo said:


> I unsuccessfully read that sentence three times, it sounds sincere though.


I'll rephrase it.... when the internet came about most of what you had to go through a BBS to get and often to get decent access to it required you joining a larger BBS that required you pay for access most of their content was free and larger BBSes couldn't pay their bills without subscribers. Most of the free BBSes around here were either slower modem speeds.... hard to get access to because of limited lines in or had less "stuff" on them as their budget didn't allow them to have larger storage capacity and pay to download as much stuff for redistribution on their BBS.
To put it bluntly I never "chatted" on a BBS to begin with so moderation had no affect on me at all as to sticking with it or not.


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## recDNA (May 6, 2016)

My only beef is that criticism of some flashlights isn't really tolerated. For example when the discussion of Zebralight going to unprotected only cells some posted it was less safe. Others genuinely argued that it was perfectly safe. Then a few others went over the top attacking those of us who prefer protected cells basically saying we are stupid. The mod stepped in. I have no problem with that part but the "solution" was to end all discussion on the issue and segregate it to a separate less frequented thread. I always think the mod should step in when people get insulting or personal but to essentially exclude a point of view from a thread because the majority there don't like that point of view goes against the free exchange of ideas. 

The same thing used to happen back when Surefire was sacrosanct here. If you entered a Surefire thread and pointed out some 4sevens light did more for less money you were basically labeled a troll. No criticism of Surefire allowed. 

Moderation is essential. Without it we'd have bedlam. I just think it is those who attack others personally who should have posts deleted not someone who politely presents a different point of view, especially an unpopular one.


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## Kestrel (May 6, 2016)

Three posts have been deleted per the below; regarding the CPF Rules and FAQs:


> The moderators and administrators of CPF are around in order to keep order. Do not whine or complain about the rules and do not abuse the moderators or administrators for enforcing the rules. It is very disruptive to the board when gripes take over a thread. Take them off the board in either private messages or email.


While the majority of this rather interesting thread has been quite constructive, please keep in mind that it is not a 'mini-forum' for discussing/complaining about *specific* moderator actions - rather, it can continue to be utilized to comment on CPF discussion & moderation style in a general sense. 
Best regards,


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (May 6, 2016)

I love CPF. I get to learn about state of the art new lights by big manufacturers AND ahead of "state of the art" by custom builders and modders. By my own admission I typically do not care for social media, but love to hear both sides of opinions on the above mentioned lights, and also about battery technology. I recently joined another forum to take advantage of some awesome group buys. Without wishing to denigrate into "what's wrong" with another site, let it to suffice it to say I believe this forum to be well moderated. As a newbie here on CPF, I broke several rules inadvertently (Hint: if you are new, read the big "NOTICE"s at the top of the page). Instead of being "shut down", I was directed to the rules I unknowingly broke. Within a very short time, I was clear on how things work. The moderators and Greta do a phenomenal job of provide a hazard free forum, allowing free speech, but not allowing personal attacks or trolling. As changes have been made (i.e. The closing of the original marketplace, the transition to Panjo and back, it has always felt apparent to me that things were being done for the good of the community). Thanks to all who keep this a safe place to buy or sell but mostly a place to learn...


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## StarHalo (May 6, 2016)

Content removed by admin:

Please use PM or The Undergound for personal instance rants - Empath


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## scout24 (May 6, 2016)

RecDNA- I think the ZL problem can be attributed to beating the dead horse again and again. There was one member who went from thread to thread deriding the lights over and over again for the same few things in the name of "informing people and answering questions of new members". The issues were there to be seen and researched by anyone, and I think detracted from the overall discussion by being dragged from page to page, thread after thread. Folks have been vocal about not liking the clips on certain ZL models, no intervention was necessary because it didn't take over the thread. Same with tint and UI discussions. They run their course, show back up briefly pages later, and we all move on. 


recDNA said:


> My only beef is that criticism of some flashlights isn't really tolerated. For example when the discussion of Zebralight going to unprotected only cells some posted it was less safe. Others genuinely argued that it was perfectly safe. Then a few others went over the top attacking those of us who prefer protected cells basically saying we are stupid. The mod stepped in. I have no problem with that part but the "solution" was to end all discussion on the issue and segregate it to a separate less frequented thread. I always think the mod should step in when people get insulting or personal but to essentially exclude a point of view from a thread because the majority there don't like that point of view goes against the free exchange of ideas.
> 
> The same thing used to happen back when Surefire was sacrosanct here. If you entered a Surefire thread and pointed out some 4sevens light did more for less money you were basically labeled a troll. No criticism of Surefire allowed.
> 
> Moderation is essential. Without it we'd have bedlam. I just think it is those who attack others personally who should have posts deleted not someone who politely presents a different point of view, especially an unpopular one.


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## recDNA (May 6, 2016)

I meant it only as an example. I enjoyed the discussion but the majority did not so that was that. You criticize any flashlight here at your peril. There are always folks who passionately defend their favs... And that is fine. I almost got the boot my first year here because I could not understand why anyone would pay more for a Surefire than a Solarforce copy or some other brand. (I do now) I meant no harm but my comment was interpreted as trolling. I recognize it is a very difficult job moderating such an avid group of flashaholics. That is a sickness almost everyone here shares.

One huge change for the better here is how newbies are treated imo. When I started out many people would just tell you to search for yourself. People share their years of experience much more freely now. Sometimes a new member doesn't even know what to search. I know I didn't. Now some of our best threads are those helping someone pick a new flashlight. I learn more reading those threads than any others.


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## Monocrom (May 6, 2016)

recDNA said:


> I meant it only as an example. I enjoyed the discussion but the majority did not so that was that. You criticize any flashlight here at your peril....



Okay, I've seen this sentiment expressed by others, for years; and honestly don't get where it's coming from. Especially the whole "You can't criticize SureFire!" thing. Really?? Because I've been doing that for years. I keep it civil, I don't resort to saying things such as "SureFire sucks!!" I point out an issue, then go into why it's a problem. 

Number of my posts deleted in which I criticized SureFire or other brands: 0

Number of times I've been banned for criticizing: 0

Number of times a moderator or Admin. "politely" encouraged me not to criticize brands: 0

I'm no one special. I can simply express myself without personal insults or name-calling. When a thread degrades to that point, yes; moderators and Admins. have to step in. Sometimes it degrades so badly that there's no choice but to completely put an end to the discussion. But, once again, if someone who has a reputation as one of the biggest SureFire critics on CPF can openly criticize the brand (along with other brands), the whole "Can't criticize ______" idea falls rather flat.


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## recDNA (May 6, 2016)

I don't know how long you've been here but I've seen entire threads closed it got so ugly.

BTW, when I said criticize at your peril I meant fellow members would chew you to shreds. Mods aren't going to ban you for being critical unless you're downright abusive.

In the ZL example, however, it's hard not to feel like you "lost" when told to no longer discuss what I still find the most interesting change from Mark II to Mark III. Maybe I am the guy referred to as going from thread to thread expressing my chagrin that one of my favorite flashlights was going in a direction I really don't like. If so it wasn't being trollish. It was just a discussion I enjoyed. 

Let me put it this way. Nobody will ever be criticized for going from thread to thread saying how wonderful some change is. Being critical is risky. 

Now I'm putting myself at risk for being too persistent in arguing this point so I won't post any more about it.


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## nbp (May 7, 2016)

It wasn't you recDNA. You know who it was. As scout said, it wasn't at all the fact that some people didn't like the change, it was that instead of a discussion, it was a couple people going round and round saying the same things 20 different ways trying to make it seem like their opinion was the end all stand on the issue. 

It devolved into a situation where people who wanted to discuss anything other than the stupid batteries couldn't because their posts got buried in all the inane diatribe. If people really wanted to discuss that issue they would have had no problem moving to a separate thread just for that topic, but I suspect it just wasn't as fun when they didn't have the whole ZL tribe to preach to over in the other thread so it died out. That also tells me it wasn't nearly the issue some made it out to be. 

At any rate, I thought we sorted this all out in those threads and I honestly don't know why it is still causing such angst or why it is being perceived as "one cannot criticize ZL". The issue is not an expression of a negative opinion but rather a person continuing to rehash a point ad nauseum to the annoyance of other members. As I mentioned in the other thread, a fanboy might attract similar attention if his ceaseless praise of a product were to become disruptive and annoying to others. 

You are an intelligent man, this I know. Certainly you can see the difference. Yes? No? Maybe?


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## bykfixer (May 7, 2016)

I used to frequent a fairly well moderated car site that was generally pretty friendly. It was 90% relaxed discussions with lots of folks helping each other out. Mods were like football refs in that they followed the action with occasional assistance to the topic at hand.
Sometimes someone would burst in and post a question that was asked a million billion times. 
(Example here would be about thread lube... there's a sticky).
Folks generally would steer the op to a sticky. Sometimes the op would get ugly, but usually they went away. 

Other times a couple of the 'staff' would jump in like a hockey player and _start_ a fight. That was weird. 

Folks here in this thread talk about being singled out. Over there I was literally singled out and told so. The cars in subject were no longer being made and were becoming old cars. Many topics were maintenance related. Well I learned from old school folks how to do basic checks of the internal combustion engine, and the logic of the site was "it's just a bad sensor". My responses rubbed against the grain of the conventional wisdom. 
(Think hotwire of the incan light here at this site and I was preaching how stock output should be understood first)
My posts were to help the unlearned understand the basics before diving into boosting things to understand what can go wrong. Here it would be a topic of 6 cell bulb keeps insta flashing using high output rechargeables. Moderators would tell the op "SEARCH STUPID" or that kind of approach. 
My solution was based on once upon a time being young, broke and ignorant while want 300 horsepower from a 4 cylinder'd jalopy. 
So at times I'd remark about how you cannot get blood from a turnip without some basic understanding of both. 
Time passed and the site pretty much changed directions from a performance enhancing subject matter to keeping old Bessy running. 
I imagine it would be like CPF going from a few hot rod incans to the plethora of LED lights of today. 

The staff over there did not take to the change very well and largely faded away. Along with them the quality moderation. It turned into a free for all with thread after thread of the same old stuff and tenured members losing interest in the site because of that. (At that other site a moderator friend of mine said at first there'd be "emergency" staff meetings called by a couple of thin skinned mods to vote on banning that Bykfixer character... I was never banned btw... but the generation gap was huge... not the case here at CPF) 

After reading literally several hundred old CPF threads (at least 10 years old) it has shown me that the staff at CPF has rolled with all the change very well. I'd imagine some very lively staff meetings have taken place, yet it does not show up on the board here at all. 

I just threw all that out there to say that although some members raise the ire of the staff here at times there is logic in the times they step in and based on my experiences with numerous sites over the years this one has a crack staff that does a tough job of keeping a very imformative board going in a positive, relaxed direction. 
And like the sleeping bear, unless you go to poking at said sleeping bear, things stay pretty calm for those of us carrying our battery powered fire on a stick. 

This place has plenty of room for debate with drama being short lived. That is a rare treat imo.


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## Bimmerboy (May 7, 2016)

Wow... what a thread this turned into. A real mixture of things, touching memories and emotions for me regarding many subjects, and I'm glad to have read it.

This thread, among many others, sheds light on (couldn't resist) why CPF, as I shall proceed to ineloquently state... is, and always has been totally awesome.


And, RIP, Norm.


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## Beamhead (May 8, 2016)

Bimmerboy said:


> And, RIP, Norm.


 Ditto


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## etc (May 8, 2016)

OFF topic

Hard to believe I've been on this forum for about 12-13 years. I've gone through major life changes during this last decade. To the point when I first joined, I was a completely different person.

I have seen a lot of people come and go. I've seen some even die.

Makes me sad a little, when you think about how fast / short your life is.


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## Monocrom (May 8, 2016)

recDNA said:


> I don't know how long you've been here but I've seen entire threads closed it got so ugly.
> 
> BTW, when I said criticize at your peril I meant fellow members would chew you to shreds. Mods aren't going to ban you for being critical unless you're downright abusive.


I'd say that nbp did a good job of covering the other issues you mentioned in the latter half of your post that I'm quoting. I just wanted to comment on these. My join date is on every post. (Can't believe it has been that long.)

It's unfortunate, but often; folks behave on the internet very differently than they do in real life. Personally, I don't. What you see here is what folks get in real life. But I accept that my outlook is a very tiny minority. You have to develop a thick skin. Then develop an even thicker and tougher skin on top of the first layer. Just how it is. 

On the biggest watch forums on the internet, I've had fellow members go insane over observations and questions regarding models from their favorite brands. Even to the point of having usually intelligent, rational, and well-respected members telling me to shut up about mildly negative questions regarding models part of their favorite brand. (I've spent a lot of time on those forums, with nearly as many posts there as I have here.)

I've seen new members get ganged up on for asking questions involving negative experiences with certain brands. The TAG Heuer fan-boys are the most ravenous. With Omega's fan base a very close second. The most laid back are the G-Shock lovers. But I'll never forget one topic in particular. Took several months to degrade horribly. Started out innocently enough with a new member wanting to get help with his Glycine watch. Several regulars, including myself, saw his posts and tried to help him out. Couple of months later, same topic; President of Glycine offered to help, personally. Topic died down for a couple of months. New member then posts that nothing was done. Same older members offered more suggestions. President made a couple of more posts, offering to help. (Well-respected moderator confirmed it was the actual President of Glycine.) Topic died down for couple of more months. New member bumped it again. He still had received no help from the President....

What happened next was the single most disgusting thing I've seen on any forum. Practically the entire membership of the Dive watch forum raided the topic! BTW, the topic wasn't in that forum. These usually respectful and respectable members tore into the now not so new member in a vicious feeding frenzy of hatred like you wouldn't believe! These are guys I've interacted with before. Normally laid back.

These are guys whose faces I've seen in the Post Your Image topic on their sub-forum. Usually posting pics. with their young children in the photos. Fathers, husbands, some old enough to be grand-fathers. Acting like vicious ghetto trash street thugs. Even the President of Glycine got in a few choice shoots. To his credit, the new member remained calm and simply pointed out he had an issue, and wanted it fixed. Fast-forward a few more weeks, and it was fixed. And I was disgusted. I no longer frequent the Dive watch forum. 

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for all the children of those members. I hope all those fathers teach them not to behave the way they did. Normally "raiding" is done from one site to a completely different one. And, it is one of the most low-life things you can do on an internet forum. You never see it done on the same site, one sub-forum to another. I saw it. I've also experienced worst.

I had a genuine e-stalker on that site. Even after placing him on ignore list, I found out he kept following me and constantly replying to my posts to other members. I still post on that site. Here's the main point, it's just words. I've met numerous folks who had no intelligent rebuttal to points I've raised. So they get vicious and resort to name-calling or even threats. It's their way of saying, "You're right, but I won't admit it!" 

You can't let that get to you. If someone can't express themselves in an intelligent manner, then why waste time with them? Either brush it off, or toss them on your ignore list. That's what I do.


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## Poppy (May 8, 2016)

Monocrom said:


> *
> I had a genuine e-stalker on that site.* Even after placing him on ignore list, I found out he kept following me and constantly replying to my posts to other members. I still post on that site. Here's the main point, it's just words. I've met numerous folks who had no intelligent rebuttal to points I've raised. So they get vicious and resort to name-calling or even threats. It's their way of saying, "You're right, but I won't admit it!"
> 
> You can't let that get to you. If someone can't express themselves in an intelligent manner, then why waste time with them? Either brush it off, or toss them on your ignore list. That's what I do.


Not long ago, I was infuriated by a member who essentially *accused me of not being man enough to admit that I was wrong*, on some silly issue. 


> Now you're just reaching because you don't want to admit you're wrong. Even though earlier in the very post quoted above, your own research has shown that your initial outlook was mistaken. I can have a discussion with anyone. But not with someone who refuses to admit they were mistaken,


He foolishly misinterpreted the data I presented. His comment caused me to do additional research, which I then presented, as irrefutable proof that I was right and that he was wrong. Two other members agreed with me. 

There was no apology, no comment.

Because he unjustifiably attacked my character, and didn't apologize, I find myself, sometimes, reading threads that I otherwise wouldn't have read, because I noticed that he posted in it.

I'd like to suggest that at that other site where you have a e-stalker, that you go back and re-read some of the threads that you had interaction with him. Perhaps there was something that YOU said, or DIDN'T SAY, that really ticked him off.


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## Greta (May 8, 2016)

Monocrom said:


> .... <snip>
> 
> These are guys whose faces I've seen in the Post Your Image topic on their sub-forum. Usually posting pics. with their young children in the photos. Fathers, husbands, some old enough to be grand-fathers. Acting like vicious ghetto trash street thugs. .... <snip>
> 
> ...



This part of your post strikes a particular chord with me. On some other sites there are members who have stalked my Facebook page and taken photos from my page to re-post on their forum and post truly disgusting personal remarks regarding everything from my looks to my intelligence, and even comments about my husband and children. No, my Facebook page is not private - it is totally public. I have nothing to hide from anyone. But I have always wondered what some of these guys' wives would think if they saw what they were posting about another woman - that they don't even know! What would their children think of how they talk about women? And then it occurs to me that guys like that probably aren't married (more likely long since divorced), and their children (if they have any) probably don't have anything to do with them or have been raised to be the same kind of misogynistic A-hole. 

The funny (ironic not ha-ha) part is that those same guys post here on CPF and think I don't know who they are on those other sites. They don't even have the manhood to use the same name they use here. They kiss my butt here then make disgusting (and I do mean seriously foul and disgusting!) remarks about me there. 

I don't want or need anyone to kiss my butt - that's not why I am here and run this site. I'm a big girl and have some pretty thick skin. But it really does make one wonder at the lives of people like that. The internet turns them into people that no one in their "real" world would ever tolerate. And CPF will not tolerate it either. These other sites (some don't even have crickets anymore - they are so dead) have disparaged CPF and me and predicted we would both be just a distant memory in no time. And yet - we are both still here. Why? Because in the end, DECENT people prefer DECENCY in others. I don't care if CPF is the largest flashlight community on the internet. I only care that it maintains it's integrity, civility and decency. And evidently that is what the majority of people in these communities prefer as well... because CPF still is... the largest flashlight community on the internet... 16 years and counting!


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## Poppy (May 8, 2016)

Greta said:


> <SNIP> in the end, *DECENT people prefer DECENCY in others*. I don't care if CPF is the largest flashlight community on the internet. *I only care that it maintains it's integrity, civility and decency.* And evidently that is what the majority of people in these communities prefer as well... because CPF still is... the largest flashlight community on the internet... 16 years and counting!


^ :thumbsup: x2


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## Monocrom (May 8, 2016)

Greta said:


> This part of your post strikes a particular chord with me. On some other sites there are members who have stalked my Facebook page and taken photos from my page to re-post on their forum and post truly disgusting personal remarks regarding everything from my looks to my intelligence, and even comments about my husband and children. No, my Facebook page is not private - it is totally public. I have nothing to hide from anyone. But I have always wondered what some of these guys' wives would think if they saw what they were posting about another woman - that they don't even know! What would their children think of how they talk about women? And then it occurs to me that guys like that probably aren't married (more likely long since divorced), and their children (if they have any) probably don't have anything to do with them or have been raised to be the same kind of misogynistic A-hole.
> 
> The funny (ironic not ha-ha) part is that those same guys post here on CPF and think I don't know who they are on those other sites. They don't even have the manhood to use the same name they use here. They kiss my butt here then make disgusting (and I do mean seriously foul and disgusting!) remarks about me there.
> 
> I don't want or need anyone to kiss my butt - that's not why I am here and run this site. I'm a big girl and have some pretty thick skin. But it really does make one wonder at the lives of people like that. The internet turns them into people that no one in their "real" world would ever tolerate. And CPF will not tolerate it either. These other sites (some don't even have crickets anymore - they are so dead) have disparaged CPF and me and predicted we would both be just a distant memory in no time. And yet - we are both still here. Why? Because in the end, DECENT people prefer DECENCY in others. I don't care if CPF is the largest flashlight community on the internet. I only care that it maintains it's integrity, civility and decency. And evidently that is what the majority of people in these communities prefer as well... because CPF still is... the largest flashlight community on the internet... 16 years and counting!




Here's to 16 more! 

I admit that when I first joined, I was so addicted to lights that I joined a couple of other forums as well. Soon stopped going to them. I did see a couple of genuinely disgusting comments about you. Figured I'd stay at the site where comments were mainly about lights instead of personal attacks. Figured if what they said was true, I'd just leave. Just like I did those other sites. That was about 10 years ago, and I'm still here. (Thankfully, I've been on here long enough to not be confused for a butt-kisser when I give credit where it's due.) I just wanted a calm, relaxing place to discuss lights. Sometimes, even on CPF, that doesn't always happen. But we're all human. 

I'm glad that this place exists. Honestly, if that watch site had a strong willed owner with a thick skin; I doubt those members would have so savagely raided that new member's topic. Or, if they did, bans would have been handed out. I just honestly don't get what joy others take in trying to make new members or fellow members feel like crap for whatever reason. What's the point of going to a site dedicated to something you care about if the main point is having everyone mindless agree, and verbally (or I guess type-ally?) ridicule in a bile-filled manner those who don't. But such individuals will always exist. Those who try to make themselves feel big or feel important by putting down others in the most vicious manner possible. I've been on CPF long enough to know you don't care that it's the biggest flashlight forum site on the internet. Trouble is, those guys with their dead sites.... They *do* care. They care a lot! Jealousy is an ugly thing. 

Sometimes they want to get a rise out of you. Just to know that you saw what they posted, and that it bothered you. And somehow _*that*_ makes them feel better about their sad lives. Even with my e-stalker on that site, I made it clear to him on the outset that he was on my Ignore List. Didn't stop him from following me around, disagreeing with everything I posted, swearing there was scientific evidence that proved I was wrong. (Yet, never posted links to any scientific journals or credible sources. Did post a lot of links to far-from-credible Wikipedia.) I have e-friends on that site who followed my posts because they were buddies. They'd sent me PMs about what he posted. Got to the point where I politely thanked them for the updates but made it clear that I didn't care what someone with a sad little ego thought of me. I wasn't going to stroke his ego. Yet, he held out hope that I would. That I'd see one of his posts, get upset, and blow my stack. 

Even nowadays, he still follows me around sometimes. Like a lost sad, angry, bile-filled puppy. Lazily trying to hold up one paw. Desperate to make the middle knuckle somehow a little bit longer than the others. With hope in its eyes that I'll see it and react. 

I could understand, if I was a famous actor or a controversial political figure. But every Regular knows what I do for a living. For some odd reason, my watch forum e-stalker, and there have been others (such as on EDCF), who are obsessed with a 40 year-old security officer who looks a lot like Vincent D'Onofrio, and is a bit out of shape. What the Hell?? I'm not even a mildly attractive young woman. I will say I've always had an odd ability to attract men who practice an "alternative lifestyle." No clue why! Maybe that's where their stalkerish behavior comes from? Had no clue my ability extended into the vast reaches of cyber space! How am I supposed to take over the world with that superpower?? It's even crappier than Aqua Man's ability to communicate with fish. LOL.

I will say I once described you as "not a wall-flower" to a new member. I think that's a fair statement. A velvet glove is fine. But sometimes you need an iron fist underneath it. Thanks to you, CPF hasn't turned to crap, nor been killed off by excessive moderating. 

Some of us appreciate that. Thanks Greta. Oh and.....

*Happy Mother's Day. *


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## ven (May 8, 2016)

Reading your posts Monocrom is like a very good book(of course shorter)but just flows so well.

You should write .............

Of to google Vincent and see what you look like


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## Monocrom (May 8, 2016)

ven said:


> Reading your posts Monocrom is like a very good book(of course shorter)but just flows so well.
> 
> You should write .............
> 
> Of to google Vincent and see what you look like



Look up "Psycho from Full Metal Jacket."

The one of him sitting on the toilet wearing a white T-shirt.... Whenever I shave my head, that's the spitting image of me! No kidding at all. 

Thank you for the compliment too. I do write. Have a small but loyal following on another site where I post my short stories and horror tales. Ironically, I always seem to come up with one great scene, and the ending; first. Somehow, when I'm done writing, the ending still fits. PM me if you'd like a link to where I post my tales.

Now back to our regularly scheduled heavy-handed moderating.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (May 8, 2016)

Eventually linger on is redundant; and the title as a whole doesn't make sense. 

Chauncey Gardiner, posts here and mytractorforum.com with the same username. If you think you read me anywhere else, let me know cuz it isn't me. I'm only on two forums.

oh, and a :kiss: for Greta's butt.

~ C.G.


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## ven (May 8, 2016)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> oh, and a :kiss: for Greta's butt.
> 
> ~ C.G.




Cheeky Gardiner !


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## Beamhead (May 8, 2016)

Will this thread ever die a slow death?


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## Greta (May 8, 2016)

Beamhead said:


> Will this thread ever die a slow death?



One can only hope... :tired:


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## Monocrom (May 8, 2016)

Slow death's don't work on CPF. Some have the ability to cause quick ones though.


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## packeteer (May 8, 2016)

it's a complex topic. Many popular forums have died off as people move to Facebook (which sucks). I'm the admin of a large group (25k), and I do it to help people, but it takes a LOT of time and effort not to "go postal".


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## Wendee (May 8, 2016)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Eventually linger on is redundant; and the title as a whole doesn't make sense.
> 
> Chauncey Gardiner, posts here and mytractorforum.com with the same username. If you think you read me anywhere else, let me know cuz it isn't me. I'm only on two forums.
> 
> ...


Chauncy, that's funny. You're on two forums, CPF and MyTractorForum? Of all the possible interests in the world, those are your two favorite?

My favorite thing is flashlights (of course) and my husband's favorite thing is tractors (he loves MyTractorForum and anything "tractor" related). 

Too bad we aren't neighbours, the three of us would certainly never run out of things to talk about! 

Sorry if I'm off topic. I guess I should catch up by reading this thread from the beginning. I saw the "kiss for Greta's butt" post and just had to read it (what what? who's kissing who, and where? what? oo lol.


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## bykfixer (May 8, 2016)

^^ even Chaunceys 'reason for edit' are humorous at times.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (May 14, 2016)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> For what's it's worth, I really like the new do, Greta. It [email protected]@ks really good on you. :kiss:
> 
> ~ Chance



I'd better cool-it. I don't want to get a butt kisser reputation.

So, Wendee, howudoin? I kid. Welcome to CPF.
bykfixer, always a pleasure to read your post.

~ Chance


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## KITROBASKIN (May 14, 2016)

Just now looked on the forum main page, scrolled down and saw that there are six times as many visitors as members online currently. It may be too much work to set it up but, wouldn't it be nice if the want-to-sell items were classified by battery (such as 1X18650, 2AA) so that the less experienced folks can more efectively find flashlights they might be interested in? Perhaps this would make more visitors want to become members, and maybe become level 1 subscribers, and prolong this alleged, eventually lingering, slow death of candlepowerforums? It just seems a win/win to help the newcomers yet, of course, still welcoming the congnoscenti to speak in flashlightese when they wish.

And maybe some plans for succession could be considered in the distant years to come. CPF is too valuable for mortality's kiss.


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## Bullzeyebill (May 14, 2016)

I am finding that many new members are posting in the appropriate threads for their first posts. I think that lurkers wanting info will read it, and post when they are ready. I lurked for about 6 months before I joined CPF.

Bill


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## Woods Walker (May 14, 2016)

more_vampires said:


> Overmoderation killed Slashdot after the DICE acquisition. I was in on Slashdot just after "Chips and Dips." Had a low 5 digit user id.
> 
> That group really liked their freedom of speech. After the "F-Beta" fiasco, I never went back. It went from good signal-to-noise ratio to worse and worse, Slashdot is dead. Long live Slashdot.
> 
> ...



I am a Mod on another forum. Run the gear and bushcraft section. Big believer in a light hand but have zero tolerance for racist [email protected] and blatant bad intent trolling. I go easy on spammers if the spam is topical and they actually contribute. I kill bots without mercy. 

edit.

On a side note I think the term troll is used too often on the internet. If someone has good intent but say strongly dislikes a beloved brand or gear item it's ok IMHO. From my perspective sometimes problems can arise from fan boys and girls who simply can't accept another person doesn't love their beloved whatever. But again that's just me and learned long ago on various forums that within a debate saying the last word means nothing and not everyone thinks the same. Agreeing to disagree even if the other person won't is good.


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