# Test/Review of Sony US18650VTC6 3000mAh (Green)



## HKJ (Aug 4, 2016)

[size=+3]Sony US18650VTC6 3000mAh (Green)[/size]







Official specifications:

Typical capacity: 3120mAh
Minimum capacity: 3000mAh
Nominal voltage: 3.6V
Standard charge: CC/CV, 0.2C, 4.2V
Standard discharge: CC, 0.2C, 2.5V
End-of-charge voltage: 4.2V +/-0.05V
End-of-charge current: 0.02C (About 62mA)
End-of-discharge voltage: 2.00V
Continuous maximum discharge: 5C/10C (15A/30A) with temp cutoff at 80°C
Max. discharge current vs. time: 30A-40A > 44s, 55A > 19s, 80A > 6s (Never discharge above 80°C)
Cycle life: 300 cycles @ 0.5C to 80%
Initial impedance: 8mOhm - 18mOhm
Weight: 46.4g +/- 1.5g
Operating temperature: Charging 0°C ~45°C, discharging: -20°C ~ 60°C
Storage temperature: -5°C ~ 35°C






The latest and probably last high current battery from Sony and it was a very high capacity together with the high current.
































There is no doubt this is a quality battery, the curves track perfectly and capacity is nearly constant with current.
At high current the battery gets hot and I stopped the 20A and 30A test due to that.







At 15A or greater Sony species that there must be a temperature cut-out at 80°C, I could just stay below that at 15A











But at 20A and 30A I hit 80°C or rather went above. Here I was up to 91°C.

































[size=+3]Conclusion[/size]

Very few batteries can handle high current as well as Sony VTC batteries and this cell also high capacity.
But this cell is not "draw all the current you want and stay safe" (That type of battery do not exist), to stay safe some requirements must be fulfilled!

I will rate it a very good battery.



[size=+3]Notes and links[/size]

The batteries was supplied by ENERDan for review.
Sony are in the process of selling their battery division (Except alkaline) to Murata.

How is the test done and how to read the charts
How is a protected LiIon battery constructed
More about button top and flat top batteries
Compare to 18650 and other batteries


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 4, 2016)

First in on the new Sony VTC6 review...woo-hoo!

Well, somewhat disappointing, but more choices are good.

I'm not a vaper, so I don't need 20A, or even 15A.

Chris


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## SG Hall (Aug 4, 2016)

Thanks for the review HKJ, excellent as usual. 

Impressive cell! It not only retains the position of the VTC as the king of the high drain cells, but it actually topples the Samsung 30Q right across the current range. We have a new king!


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## ven (Aug 4, 2016)

Thanks as always......what would we do without you A great 30Q alternative imo, even if the 30Q might not match it, both are more than enough for 99% of flashlights ........nice to have choices!


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## SG Hall (Aug 4, 2016)

ven said:


> Thanks as always......what would we do without you A great 30Q alternative imo, even if the 30Q might not match it, both are more than enough for 99% of flashlights ........nice to have choices!



I agree ven. I have a stack of 30Qs and they're outstanding. For the price they are unbeatable, and that probably hasn't changed. 

This new Sony cell might be good for Vinh's high drain battery packs though, such as the RC40vnF.


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## ven (Aug 4, 2016)

I think the vtc5 will still outperform although a light meter would be requires, however it offers a happy medium between the 10a 3500 LG's and the 2600 mah VTC5's...........

Only problem, demand= higher cost factor, for what we would notice to the eye(nothing) would it be worth the potential price increase(running on presumptions here and no doubt counterfeit risks).


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## HKJ (Aug 4, 2016)

Comparing to the Samsung the lifetime may not be as good. Sony rates it at low current and Samsung rates it at high current, i.e. it is impossible to compare correctly.


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## ven (Aug 4, 2016)

Excellent points, i just spoke to my battery guy norb, he said they are grade B or something and waiting for grade A (or along those lines). Might be the ones available to him for now...........


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## ven (Aug 4, 2016)

ven said:


> Excellent points, i just spoke to my battery guy norb, he said they are grade B or something and waiting for grade A (or along those lines). Might be the ones available to him for now...........




Edit- spoke to norb, class B are potentially damaged or have been stored in poor /adverse conditions for periods of unknown time. Until A become available he will not be selling them due to following good practice. So just be aware if they pop up on eBay ! You might not be getting the better cell.........If a trusted seller then a different story possibly . But the class A are not available to the public yet......


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 4, 2016)

ven said:


> Edit- spoke to norb, class B are potentially damaged or have been stored in poor /adverse conditions for periods of unknown time. Until A become available he will not be selling them due to following good practice. So just be aware if they pop up on eBay ! You might not be getting the better cell.........If a trusted seller then a different story possibly . But the class A are not available to the public yet......



Hi Ven,

Who's placing the designation on them? Sony wouldn't know how they were stored, so it's probably not them. Any of Sony's major distributors might know, but one would think that they'd store them carefully.

Then there's the dealers and if they're doing it, I don't know...

Chris


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## ven (Aug 5, 2016)

ChrisGarrett said:


> Hi Ven,
> 
> Who's placing the designation on them? Sony wouldn't know how they were stored, so it's probably not them. Any of Sony's major distributors might know, but one would think that they'd store them carefully.
> 
> ...




Hi there Chris, i dont know the ins and outs tbh, only from a good source in the business who has a warehouse in HK. He said the ones available are grade B as the grade A have not been released yet or available to get. He also said cells right now are not good, many like LG are damaged or some are even rattling inside! Many with unknown history, he will only get cells that have proof of storage and up to 2 months old, some are of unknown age, possible stored in poor conditions and for long periods, be it temperature or damp issues. This is from someone who literally imports 1000's and 1000's and said right now its not good! We talked about a few brands, one a well known one for exaggerating their ratings and he said many others are the same and can not be fully trusted. Of all the brands, KeepPower are pretty much the only one he trusts as their specs and information regarding age/storage are accurate. Actual cell brands, he does strongly rate the Samsung right now. 

The vtc6 have my interest, just not enough to take over the 30Q for me, not yet anyway.........

I get the impression they get stored all over buy the buyers, no doubt many variables there in conditions and how stored. By public or buyers, this i mean covers manufacturers too. 

Sony themselves will have controlled conditions no doubt there, its from Sony and to where they go is the issue IMO. I am presuming here, buying cells in bulk you will want the fact sheet, storage information, birth dates etc and when buying large quantities, you are relying on trusted contacts at the other side of the world. 

Sony have not made the grade A available yet, it seems grade B are , by who , or who actually has them i dont know, only that he will not buy them due to too many unknown variables .


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## CuriousOne (Aug 5, 2016)

Can't say for Sony, but I have seen shipping package for Tadiran Li-Ion batteries for military use (proximity fuses for artillery shells). The box was sealed, had moisture sensor, shock sensor, temperature low/high indicator. It was prohibited to use these batteries, if any of above sensors were triggered.


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 5, 2016)

CuriousOne said:


> Can't say for Sony, but I have seen shipping package for Tadiran Li-Ion batteries for military use (proximity fuses for artillery shells). The box was sealed, had moisture sensor, shock sensor, temperature low/high indicator. It was prohibited to use these batteries, if any of above sensors were triggered.



Ha! I remember seeing the news story on the Malaysian 370 crash, when they went to the maintenance hangar where the batteries for the black boxes were stored and they were sitting out in the open, in 100+* weather and 80% humidity, so anything's possible.

Chris


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## candle lamp (Aug 6, 2016)

Another excellent test review. HKJ! Thanks. :thumbsup:


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## Subterrestrial (Aug 19, 2016)

Thank you for the excellent review and test HKJ. I just heard about these this morning and got excited. Sounds like a distillation of the best aspects of the VTC4s and VTC5s (my two favorite IMRs) for the most part. I have a couple of sets of VTC5s I haven't even used yet, so I doubt I'll be picking these up just yet.


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## Capolini (Aug 19, 2016)

THANKS FOR THE REVIEW HKJ!


Just a thought of this grade "A" and grade "B" VTC6. I would not think HJK's sample was grade B?? So grade "A" must be available?! He got his from Enerpower[German co. I think].

I got mine from IMR Batteries which is a reputable dealer. I think mine will be grade A!


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## MAD777 (Aug 19, 2016)

As always, thanks for the review! 
I also ordered up 4 of these from IMR.


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## StorminMatt (Dec 8, 2016)

I got two of these batteries from Illumination Supply yesterday. And I'm quite impressed by them. Admittedly, the name 'Sony VTC' tends to scream out loud 'vape cells' and 'low capacity'. Because of this, people assume that there are better options for flashlights (ie NCR18650B, LG MJ1, NCR18650GA). But the truth is that these cells are actually REALLY good for flashlights, and not just those with crazy high current draw. One of the best things about these cells is their ability to maintain voltage under a load. And they do this better than pretty much ANYTHING out there. The result? Your light stays nice and bright throughout the whole discharge cycle, particularly if you like to use your higher levels. Usually, when I swap to a fully charged cell, I can REALLY see how dim my light has gotten. The difference is MUCH less pronounced with these cells. If you don't like your light to dim, these are your cells.

But what about capacity? Why live with 3000mAH when you can have 3400-3500mAH? Because there really aren't any 3400-3500mAH batteries, that's why. Unlkke 26650s (which hit their numbers fairly well), 18650s tend to be overrated by a couple of hundred mAH in real world use. For instance, at 3A, the capacity of an NCR18650GA is only 3103mAH vs the rated 3400mAH (per HKJ testing). The NCR18650GA ups this to 3208mAH, but is short of its rating by the same amount. On the other hand, the VTC6 gives you 2935mAH. This is only 165mAH short of the NCR18650B and 270mAH short of the NCR18650GA - FAR less than the difference on paper. The result? My SC600Fd runs ALMOST as long on a VTC6 as an NCR18650GA! And it runs brighter to boot! Because of this, I DEFINITELY consider this battery to be worth consideration, even if you NEVER plan to draw over 3A.


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## MAD777 (Dec 8, 2016)

I have 8 of these in my quiver now. I'm using them in my highest amp draw modded lights, which draw 12 amps! Love 'em!


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## EDness (Dec 8, 2016)

MAD777 said:


> I have 8 of these in my quiver now. I'm using them in my highest amp draw modded lights, which draw 12 amps! Love 'em!


 I have 8 as well. It's perfect for my "show off" lights. Everything else I use 30Q...because they are much cheaper.


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## Capolini (Dec 8, 2016)

I use them in my M2Xvn,TX25C2vn and SDMiniVN.

I change batteries After 15 minutes to a max of 20 minutes. These are powerful modded lights. For these lights, and to be expected, I can definitely tell the difference when I put a fresh one in,even after 15 minutes when the cells are ~ 3.87v.

The 30Q's were mentioned,,,they are very good cells for the price. The run time pleasantly surprised me. Using my TK75vn, The voltage after 38 consecutive minutes[step down step up @ 20 minutes] on turbo was 3.66V. The voltage with my Soshine[18 months old/panny 3400 cell] after the same time was 3.65V,,,,,,I know they are 18 months old. I do not think a brand new 3400 panny cell would last longer than the 30Q and/or the VTC6 as *StorminMatt *​ described.


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## StorminMatt (Dec 8, 2016)

Capolini said:


> I do not think a brand new 3400 panny cell would last longer than the 30Q and/or the VTC6 as *StorminMatt *​ described.



And bear in mind that my runtime comparison with the NCR18650B was for a bone stock SC600Fd running on H2 high, NOT a Vinh light. As current draw increases, the small capacity advantage of the NCR18650B decreases (and possibly becomes andisadvabtage when voltage sag is taken into account).


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## CelticCross74 (Dec 12, 2016)

I have 10 of these cells for my vape mods. Thus far they are stellar performers and surprisingly affordable. Why are they "likely the last" high amp cells from Sony?


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## HKJ (Dec 12, 2016)

CelticCross74 said:


> Why are they "likely the last" high amp cells from Sony?



Because Sony has sold the LiIon battery branch to another company. It is probably not the end of the VTC batteries, but expect another name on the cell.


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## Capolini (Dec 19, 2016)

I read on my hometown dealers[Liionwholesale.com] website that there is a code on here to identify MANUFACTURING DATE.

For those who do not know and are interested, the information is given on the "Sony specification/Data sheet". It is located in section 6.

6. Identification and Marking (Lot Number Definition：Manufacturing Date of Cells)

Here is the link:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0697/3395/files/Sony_VTC6_specification.pdf?5816251569019225974


It starts with the year 1992 which is"A" and correlates w/ the alphabet. 1993 would be "B" and so on.Cut to the chase,,,,,,,,*X=2015, Y=2016

Y=YEAR
M=MONTH
D=DAY
D=DAY
S=ELECTRODE HISTORY


*-All you need to do is look at the SET of Numbers below: SE US18650VTC6

- Look at the LAST Five numbers/letters to determine the Manufacturing date:

*X=2015 AND Y=2016

MY LAST FIVE NUMBERS/DIGITS FOR MINE READ: YD28P

Y=[LETTER Y] =2016
M=D=APRIL[4TH LETTER/4TH MONTH]
D=2
D=8
P=ELECTRODE HISTORY

MINE WERE MANUFACTURED APRIL 28TH,2016.*

I GOT THEM IN THE BEGINNING OF AUGUST,,,,,,,,THEY WERE JUST OVER 3 MONTHS OLD!


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## MAD777 (Dec 19, 2016)

So, it is now obvious why Sony had to sell. The letter 'Z' is coming up next year, and they couldn't figure out a new code! LOL


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## Capolini (Dec 19, 2016)

^^^ 

LOL!! Similar thought as mine,,,as I was figuring out the years/letter correlations I said to myself they have to sell all their batteries by the end of next year!


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## Capolini (Feb 8, 2017)

In one aspect I am NOT impressed with these batteries at all. They have been used 5.5 months.

One has 40 cycles and the other 20 cycles. Once they have been below 3.70V for testing. Other than that they have NOT been below 3.8 Volts!

BOD: April 28,2016

Purchased: August 22,2016

One came off of the charger @ 4.20v,,,the other @ 4.19v. Eight hours later they were both 4.14v. When they were new, which was not long ago[!], the resting voltages would be 4.18/4.19v Five or Six days later.

I realize ALL batteries drop several Hundredths of a volt after resting. IMO these have dropped too low of a voltage/too quickly compared to ALL of my other batteries that are much older. If they were a few years old it would not concern me, but they are not.

AS FAR AS I KNOW THEY ARE GENUINE WITH ALL THE CORRECT MARKINGS. I BOUGHT THEM FROM A REPUTABLE DEALER.

Is this a sign of them DEGRADING too fast? I think it might be.

I have many batteries of all sizes that are b/w 1.5 and 3 years old whose resting voltages are higher after sitting for several days!


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## CREEXHP70LED (Feb 8, 2017)

I was about to buy four of these a week or so ago, however I got busy and forgot to place the order. Now I am not sure if I want these or 30Q's?


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## ChrisGarrett (Feb 8, 2017)

Capolini said:


> In one aspect I am NOT impressed with these batteries at all. They have been used 5.5 months.
> 
> One has 40 cycles and the other 20 cycles. Once they have been below 3.70V for testing. Other than that they have NOT been below 3.8 Volts!
> 
> ...



I remember when you bought them and I think that it was Ven who stated that his battery guy suggested that there might be VTC6 floating around, which might not have been stored properly and were classified as 'B stock.'

What charger are you using again?

I would think that 4.14v after a few hours is too much for a newish cell, but if you bang on them hard, say while using them in a sub-ohm mech vaporizer, then perhaps, but you don't seem to be doing that?

Charge them up to full, let them rest 2 hours, discharge them down at 1A (the max for something like an Opus charger) and then see what you see.

Chris


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## seery (Feb 9, 2017)

ChrisGarrett said:


> there might be VTC6 floating around, which might not have been stored properly and were classified as 'B stock.



Was thinking the same thing, he probably got "B" cells.

My VTC6's come off the charger (VP2) at 4.2 then settle to 4.185 and stay there.


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## Capolini (Feb 9, 2017)

ChrisGarrett said:


> I remember when you bought them and I think that it was Ven who stated that his battery guy suggested that there might be VTC6 floating around, which might not have been stored properly and were classified as 'B stock.'
> 
> What charger are you using again?
> 
> ...



I remember VEN mentioning that. It certainly is a possibility.

I use them in my M2Xvn.As you see above they have not been cycled that much and have never been discharged too much.

I charge them either in my Fenix ARE-C2 or my Keeppower L2 charger.

Some guy on BLF said that resting voltage is normal for Sony batteries. I disagree. when my VTC4/5 were only 5.5. months old their resting voltages were 4.18/4.19 after several days!

I do not have an Opus charger so I just have to wait and see. A year from now If they are holding a 4.14v resting voltage several days after a charge, then they should be fine.

My experience is when the resting voltage starts dwindling down then the batteries are also degrading.

I have numerous cells that are 2, 3 and even 4 years old who have a higher resting voltage than 4.14V!


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## ven (Feb 9, 2017)

My vtc4 and vtc5 have no issue with resting voltage at all, even after a couple of years. They have not been cycled 100's of times, but may have had 50 part cycles over that time.

Regarding grades , i dont know that much but yes my battery guy told me. He has a warehouse in HK , he said at the time there were no grade A and only B iirc. Grade B basically is along the lines of not knowing age, how they have been stored(temperature etc/conditions). He also told me decent grade LG cells where getting rarer , again unknown age/conditions. That was a while back, not sure how things sit today..............

Back to the vtc6, as i wanted to try some, he would not buy any due to the grade available. This might just be to him, dont know on that but also bare in mind that Sony dont just sell to the public or not as far as i am aware of anyway.........Many gray areas:thinking:

Sorry to here the vtc6 have not lived up to your expectations(nor would they live up to mine either). Quite disappointing, as sony are one of the top brands.


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## ChrisGarrett (Feb 9, 2017)

Capolini said:


> I remember VEN mentioning that. It certainly is a possibility.
> 
> >>>>>>>>
> 
> ...



I'm just a hack and I'm certainly no expert, but I have eight Sony 2200mAh 18650s from a ~2004 VAIO pack, which are dated 2002 and they all hold about 4.15v after a day and come hot off of my chargers at about 4.17v. On my Opus 3400 v. 2.2, they discharge down close to, or at, 2000mAh plus, which is seemingly pretty good.

We suspect that the Opus chargers, much like my LaCrosse BC-700, read a bit 'high,' so even taking that into consideration, the Sonys are doing quite well after 15 years. I won't put a 3A load on them and I won't charge them up at more than 500mA, but they're in the fridge waiting for zombie duty.

Who knows? Until you can run them under a timed and somewhat known load, we're back to square one. I don't have any other Sony li-ion cells, to know for sure, but I do have those 8 and another VAIO pack sitting here that I never bothered with.

Fresher cells, not beat upon, shouldn't be at 4.14v after 8 hours on a good charger, is my thought on the matter.

Chris


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## Capolini (Feb 9, 2017)

^^^^^^^^^^^

I AGREE that ,,,,Fresher cells, not beat upon, shouldn't be at 4.14v after 8 hours on a good charger, is my thought on the matter.

It is like  with this guy on BLF! He keeps telling me that it is normal for resting voltages @ 4.14V with SONY cells and I keep telling him it is NOT normal from my past Sony[newer] cells and any other for that matter to have a resting voltage of 4.14V after 8 hours rest and cells only 5.5 months old!

I VOTE FOR VEN!! "B" CELLS!!

EDIT: Mine may NOT qualify for B cells because the BOD WAS 4.28.2016 and I purchased them August 22, 2016. So they were NOT sitting around long at all............how they were stored? I have no idea!


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## ven (Feb 9, 2017)

:laughing: vote ven! 

Off the top of my head, cells charged to near 4.2v tend to rest no lower then 4.18v(range of my cells). When any of my cells rest bellow 4.1v(dont think i actually have any), then they will simply move to lower powered tasks(say work light use which is 300lm or less). At 4.1v and for arguments sake say 90% in the tank, still plenty of uses before recycling. Thats a general comment for older worn cells though, certainly not ~6 month old vtc6 which is poor. 

In know capo de capo demands nothing but the best out of his v54 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he will not be happy with 5% less turbo time!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes i am grateful for a little less charge, the rc40vnT for example measures around 8.15v rested(full would be 8.4v) so a tad less than 90% which across the 6 cells will add some longevity when stored/locked out.


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## Newlumen (Feb 9, 2017)

Sorry to hear that capo about your sony vtc6. I use sony vtc 4, vtc 5. And vtc6. None of them give me any problem... i stored my sony vtc 6 fully charged for 2 weeks, and check the voltage.. they came out 4.18v.. i buy my batteries from illumn and mtnelectronics.


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## Capolini (Feb 10, 2017)

Gentlemen,,,,, [and I use that term loosely!],,,the verdict is still out!!! I am in the process of doing another full charge[4.20v]/resting voltage tests!!

This second test is more of the norm! Started another test yesterday @ 1:30 pm. It has been holding 4.18V.I will check voltages a few times every succeeding day and see where it is a week from now!:naughty:


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## ChrisGarrett (Feb 10, 2017)

Check the battery in your DMM and get a charger like the Liitokala 500, or Opus, that allow you to do discharge tests.

Chris


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## Capolini (Feb 10, 2017)

^^^^

Thanks,,,,,,,

I plan to get an Opus if this job comes through! That is how tight things are now!

DMM battery is fine. When the batteries get low, the voltages actually get much higher than normal! That is when I know they have to be changed.


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## Capolini (Feb 16, 2017)

Ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I started another test for BOTH batteries on February 9th, 2017.
*
BOTH BATTERIES CAME OFF THE CHARGER @ **4.20V.

**AFTER **RESTING FOR 1 WEEK: 

BATTERY "A" WAS @ 4.18V**

BATTERY "B" WAS @ 4.17V*

These are certainly Acceptable and Normal voltages 1 Week after being charged!:thumbsup:

I am not sure why my first test had the voltage *DROP *from *4.20V TO 4.14V IN 8 HOURS!*:thinking:

I believe my cells are Fine, they are real and they should perform and last like my other VTC cells have!


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## ChrisGarrett (Feb 16, 2017)

Capolini said:


> Ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I started another test for BOTH batteries on February 9th, 2017.
> *
> BOTH BATTERIES CAME OFF THE CHARGER @ **4.20V.
> 
> ...



That minor drop is totally normal and expected. I let my Sony laptop pulls sit for a month, IIRC and they didn't drop but a couple of points over that time--charger: 4.17v, day later: 4.15v, one month: 4.14v, so I felt comfortable using them at say... a 1A current, or less.

Chris


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## RichS (Oct 6, 2017)

Quick question for you - I ordered a Emisar D4vn quad thrower R from Vinh, and I read that it can pull slightly above 20A on max. I only plan on doing this for short bursts (15-30 seconds) to keep the heat down. 

Would this be an appropriate battery to use in this light?


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## HKJ (Oct 6, 2017)

RichS said:


> Quick question for you - I ordered a Emisar D4vn quad thrower R from Vinh, and I read that it can pull slightly above 20A on max. I only plan on doing this for short bursts (15-30 seconds) to keep the heat down.
> 
> Would this be an appropriate battery to use in this light?



The battery can do it, but it is a very high load for it.


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## Capolini (Oct 6, 2017)

RichS said:


> Quick question for you - I ordered a Emisar D4vn quad thrower R from Vinh, and I read that it can pull slightly above 20A on max. I only plan on doing this for short bursts (15-30 seconds) to keep the heat down.
> 
> Would this be an appropriate battery to use in this light?



Vinh recommends the VTC5A for BOTH the D1vn[I am getting] and the D4vn. 

Look at HKJ voltage curve comparing the VTC6 and VTC5A,,,,,,You will see that the VTC5A is better,especially in the beginning. VTC5A is able to deliver more amps.


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## Capolini (Oct 6, 2017)

If your concerned about the run time difference. The VTC6 has 16.66% more run time according to BOTH capacity tests of the VTC5A and VTC6, at 1 amp.

2480mAh for VTC5A and 2976mAh for the VTC6

I actually broke it down to the minutes at a specific point in each batteries run time. Just an estimate.


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## RichS (Oct 6, 2017)

Thanks guys. I'll be going with the VTC5A for this one.

Sorry, last question - do you think the d4 has enough protection built in (low voltage cutoff, temp regulation, etc.) to safely use the VTC5A or VTC6?


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## Capolini (Oct 6, 2017)

RichS said:


> Thanks guys. I'll be going with the VTC5A for this one.
> 
> Sorry, last question - do you think the d4 has enough protection built in (low voltage cutoff, temp regulation, etc.) to safely use the VTC5A or VTC6?




I would ask Vinh that question. He recommends the battery on his website. 

I personally do run time tests with each new battery and light that I get. Been doing it for years. Then I know how long I can use it and never worry about draining it too much.Because of that I have actually guessed the voltages many times.

Here is your light on Vinh's website.

https://skylumen.com/collections/v54-lights/products/emisar-d4vn-smallest-18650-quad


I know Vinh sells the VTC5A. You can get it $3 cheaper from my Hometown dealer,a great place w/ the best customer service around.I am fortunate in that I live 1.5 miles away. I just picked up 2 X VTC5A for my D1vn. These batteries are fresh like all of his[wholesale distributor]. Born on Date is June 13, 2017.:thumbsup:

https://liionwholesale.com/collecti...at-top-wholesale-discount?variant=28023302033


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## MAD777 (Oct 6, 2017)

I went with 5A because HKJ reviews showed it would not get dangerously hot at 20+ amps. Most batteries, including VTC6, get too hot at 20+ amps.


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## fneuf (Oct 20, 2017)

Do you think VTC6 are adapted in a SC600FD MkIII+? Or are there more appropriate (technically-wise or cost-wise) cells for this light?


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## ven (Oct 20, 2017)

fneuf said:


> Do you think VTC6 are adapted in a SC600FD MkIII+? Or are there more appropriate (technically-wise or cost-wise) cells for this light?



I use vtc6 and 30Q in my ZL sc63w and work great!


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## terjee (Oct 20, 2017)

fneuf said:


> Do you think VTC6 are adapted in a SC600FD MkIII+? Or are there more appropriate (technically-wise or cost-wise) cells for this light?



I’ll second ven.

There’s always a bit of a subjective side to declaring a battery “the best” for any given task, but the VTC6 is certainly one of the best.

My own experience has also been good with VTC6 in an SC600w.


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## ven (Oct 20, 2017)

Yes, although maybe it could be argued its a little overkill for the ZL, once the voltage drops down, it will enable you to hold higher modes(H1) for longer! . Less voltage sag compared to the sanyo GA ZL recommends for their light.


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## StorminMatt (Oct 21, 2017)

ven said:


> Yes, although maybe it could be argued its a little overkill for the ZL, once the voltage drops down, it will enable you to hold higher modes(H1) for longer! . Less voltage sag compared to the sanyo GA ZL recommends for their light.



And the capacity difference between the. VTC6 and GA is not NEARLY as great as the numbers suggest.


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## ven (Oct 22, 2017)

StorminMatt said:


> And the capacity difference between the. VTC6 and GA is not NEARLY as great as the numbers suggest.



True Matt


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## fneuf (Oct 22, 2017)

Thanks for your comments gentlemen!


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## howfe (Jan 30, 2018)

Would the US18650VT6 be acceptable in the single cell Armytek Viking Pro v3 XP-L? It seems the output would be within reason?


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## IlluminationDomination (Feb 1, 2018)

Thank you HKJ. I have been reading your reviews for 6 or 7 years. they are very helpful, I like the VTC6, but I like the VTC5A better!

My cousin modified a few of my lights and I have used these great Sony batteries in them.


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## KITROBASKIN (Feb 1, 2018)

In terms of flashlight use, thinking the difference between these various fine batteries is not detectable with the human eye, nor would we be able to sense a great difference in runtime, though it can be interesting to discuss.


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## SubLGT (Feb 2, 2018)

Sony VTC6A has been tested:

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...s-vtc5a-estimated-2900-3000mah-20-25a.849291/



> ...The two samples of the VTC6A I tested easily outperformed the VTC6. While the VTC5A hit a tiny bit harder than the VTC6A at the start of the discharge the VTC6A outperformed the VTC5A for the rest of it, especially at higher current levels. This is a great battery....
> 
> ...The VTC6A’s I tested delivered 2892mAh and 3008mAh at 0.5A. This is a larger than typical cell-to-cell variation for Sony cells. I don’t know why....


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## IlluminationDomination (Feb 2, 2018)

I heard about 1 year ago that Sony was going to discontinue making batteries and was selling their battery division.

Is that still true,if so does anyone know when that will take place?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Thanks


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## HKJ (Feb 2, 2018)

IlluminationDomination said:


> I heard about 1 year ago that Sony was going to discontinue making batteries and was selling their battery division.
> 
> Is that still true,if so does anyone know when that will take place?
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Thanks



I do not know anything, but it might have taken place with a contract saying the new owner can use the Sony name for a few years (I do know about that type of contract).


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## howfe (Feb 3, 2018)

I found this video, grade B batteries do not appear to be as bad as I thought! (YouTube) - Battery Talk With Mooch | Sony VTC5A VS VTC6 | What You Need To Know About Batteries It is a vape enthusiast inspired discussion, but similar principles. I just ordered a couple VTC6’s from Illumn, and really like the OPs review of these VTC6’s!

Some things are confusing me on amperage draw with flashlights..

Supposedly, regulated Flashlights don't generally pull as many amps. I found the Armytek Viking Pro v3 XP-L maximum operating voltage is 13V on the Armytek Flashlights Comparison site. I know Armytek thermally regulates there devices to 60C generally, but not sure about amps? Is it temperature dependent? The battery over-discharge protection circuit only monitors current draw to a specified voltage? 


In this YouTube video with a single cell 18650GA (15A) vs Samsung30Q (15A-20A) the brightness and runtime were better with the 30Q on a single cell XHP35 HI XHP35 HI? If a Cree XHP35Hi pulls 5-6amps why would there be a difference in an 18650GA vs a 30Q (Both 10Amp or higher rating). Still trying to figure out the maximum amps the various Cree emitters can pull with a single cell? The Cree XP-L emitter seems to pull 3-4amps max? Depends on regulation? The Buck Boost keep it in the LED’s specification, but I am having some difficulty understanding, trying to pull it all together..


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## howfe (Feb 3, 2018)

Just FYI : The VTC6's I just received from Illumn were manufactured January 31ST,2017 according to the information Capolini provided. They arrived at 3.49 and 3.50 volts.

MY LAST FIVE NUMBERS/DIGITS FOR MINE READ: ZA31Q

Z=[LETTER Y] =2017
M=A=January[1ST LETTER/1ST MONTH]
D=3
D=1
Q=ELECTRODE HISTORY


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## IlluminationDomination (Feb 3, 2018)

howfe said:


> Just FYI : The VTC6's I just received from Illumn were manufactured January 31ST,2017 according to the information Capolini provided. They arrived at 3.49 and 3.50 volts.
> 
> MY LAST FIVE NUMBERS/DIGITS FOR MINE READ: ZA31Q
> 
> ...




Illumns is a great place. I have bought from them many times. 

Liionwholesale only sells batteries and chargers.Primarily because they are wholesale and sell volumes, their batteries are between 3 months and 6 months old when I get them.

https://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/Sony


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## howfe (Feb 3, 2018)

Oh, wow, looks like it might be my new favorite distributor! They are also based out of PA, and I live in Northern VA area so pretty close by, thanks!!


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## howfe (Feb 3, 2018)

IlluminationDomination said:


> I heard about 1 year ago that Sony was going to discontinue making batteries and was selling their battery division.
> 
> Is that still true,if so does anyone know when that will take place?
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Thanks






HKJ said:


> I do not know anything, but it might have taken place with a contract saying the new owner can use the Sony name for a few years (I do know about that type of contract).




It looks like it will be/is Murata Manufacturing Co.? Japanese Times News Article

Murata Manufacturing Co., Ltd. is a Japanese manufacturer of electronic components, based in Nagaokakyo, Kyoto. Honorary Chairman Akira Murata started Murata Manufacturing as a personal venture in October, 1944. Wikipedia

Murata Batteries


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## howfe (Feb 3, 2018)

SubLGT said:


> Sony VTC6A has been tested:
> 
> https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...s-vtc5a-estimated-2900-3000mah-20-25a.849291/




The VTC6A's do look interesting..


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## iamlucky13 (Feb 4, 2018)

howfe said:


> The VTC6A's do look interesting..



It's tempting to rebuild my drill battery with those when they become easily available. and doubling their capacity. It seems like Ryobi hasn't bothered to update their cell source since they first released lithium-ion packs. From what I've found online, it seems they're 15A, 1500 mAh cells.



howfe said:


> Some things are confusing me on amperage draw with flashlights..
> 
> Supposedly, regulated Flashlights don't generally pull as many amps. I found the Armytek Viking Pro v3 XP-L maximum operating voltage is 13V on the Armytek Flashlights Comparison site. I know Armytek thermally regulates there devices to 60C generally, but not sure about amps? Is it temperature dependent? The battery over-discharge protection circuit only monitors current draw to a specified voltage?
> 
> ...



I didn't watch the video, did he measure amperage? Some of the more powerful lights actually exceed the rated amperage of the LED's they use. The Emisar D4 (4 x XP-L emitters in parallel) has been measured peaking as high as 20A tailcap current from a single cell.

Even if it's really only 5A, the 18650GA sees more voltage drop under load than the 30Q, meaning less power at the same current. If the driver doesn't boost above the working voltage and regulate down, it will also mean lower actual current when driven hard like that.


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## vestureofblood (Jan 12, 2019)

HKJ what is the highest current 18650 available that you know of? Anything that beats this under a 20-30 amp load? 40 amp capable?


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## HKJ (Jan 12, 2019)

vestureofblood said:


> HKJ what is the highest current 18650 available that you know of? Anything that beats this under a 20-30 amp load? 40 amp capable?



VTC6 is not that good at 30A, you need a 2600mAh cell for good performance at that current.
I am working on a new table with sorting and filtering that can be used to help with this kind of questions, here is a bit from sorted for 30A current and filtered for 18650 cells:







The full size picture is here: http://lygte-info.dk/pic/BatteryIndex/30AFW.png


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## SubLGT (Jan 12, 2019)

vestureofblood said:


> ...what is the highest current 18650 available



Probably the 2000mAh Samsung 20S

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...g-18650-right-now-beats-hb6-and-vtc6a.864225/



> This is a great performing cell. Until now the only 30A 18650’s we had were the 1500mAh LG HB2/4/6. The Samsung 20S not only has increased capacity over those cells but it performs MUCH better too, giving us a lot more vaping time at high current levels.
> 
> It hits harder than any other 18650 down to about 3.3V and appears to have a true 30A rating.
> 
> At lower current levels, under 20A or so, there are better higher capacity choices. But at 30A the Samsung 20S is the clear winner. In the 20A-30A range it is a close race between the 20S and the VTC5A/5D/6A. You’ll have to test them to see which performs better for the way you vape


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## MAD777 (Jan 12, 2019)

HKJ said:


> I am working on a new table with sorting and filtering that can be used to help with this kind of questions, here is a bit from sorted for 30A current and filtered for 18650 cells:



HKJ, you are the BEST!!!


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