# Seeking Advice: White LED for Deck Lighting



## YW84U (May 25, 2009)

Good Evening All,

My first post, and am seeking advice on a DIY project. I'm currently about to install aluminum/glass deck railing at home, and am interested in installing white LEDs underneath the railing edge to provide downlighting or a perimeter 'wash' - similar to what's depicted in the photo below from my railing supplier:







I understand that this was accomplished using Microstars - from all of my reading, the Microstar is based on the Nichia NSPW312BS 3mm LED. However, I think the stainless housing is a little overkill for my application (also, champagne tastes on a beer budget ), so I was intending to improve my DIY skills and try and make my own version using these LEDS. 

Then I found CPF!! I've been lurking/reading/searching here for the past month, and now find I have way more questions to what I originally thought might be simple!! The amount of information here is astounding, and is a lot to absorb in a short time. 

After much reading, I'm now unsure whether I should stick with the 3mm Nichia, or consider perhaps a different 5mm LED - my main goal is to find a suitable LED that replicates what is seen in the photo and has a good lifespan (I have about 84 feet of railing and will be using maybe 60 LEDs total). The top railing comes in two pieces, so I can drill/mount the LEDs and place the wiring before closing it up with a 'relatively permanent' top cap. Would I be better to look for an alternative to the 35 degree 2600mcd Nichia, or something with a brighter and wider/narrower beam?

Any suggestions or advice in this regard is greatly appreciated!

Thanks in Advance,

Tom


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## JohnR66 (May 26, 2009)

Sounds like a neat but challenging project. You would need to carefully encapsulate the LEDs so water and physical damage is minimized to the circuit. Nichia LEDs are a good choice as they last quite long. Avoid going cheap with eBay/Chinese 5mm LEDs because these can get dim within 4 weeks of continuous duty. If you want the LEDs to last many years with a few hours of use each night, even with Nichia LEDs, do not drive them at over 10ma. Using a 12v DC supply, you can drive three LEDs in series and use a 330 ohm resistor for around 7ma of drive.


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## YW84U (May 26, 2009)

Thank You for the reply JohnR66! I think it will work out to be a fun project, and hopefully with add some decent indirect lighting for the evening hours (if summer ever arrives here!).

My thoughts were to take the Nichias and mount three per panel, each panel being around 54" in length for a total of 19 panels. I would mount each one in a nylon holder or equivalent (not sure on what type yet) after soldering leads to the LEDs and coating in shrink tubing. Similar to this:
















Once installed, then cover with a small dollop of silicone to protect them to some degree, connect all of the leads to the 12VDC supply and then snap the top rail on. The top rail will ensure no rain or weather enters into the wiring cavity - the only exposure the LEDs will have is via the bottom mount. I am not 100% if I will be able to separate the top rail in the future without damage, so that is why I am looking to find a good durable LED - as I can assume I will be running them for many hours over the next few years. I would think the NSPW312BS 3mm to be a good long term choice, but again, am looking for your thoughts on any alternative that may suit this application better.

On the topic of a 12V PS, would you have any recommendations? I believe what I would need to do is wire up each panel with 3 in series + the 330 ohm, and have the 19 panels of three run in parallel, correct?

oh, I have so much more to learn :thinking:

Cheers,

Tom


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## JohnR66 (May 26, 2009)

Any small 12 volt DC plug in transformer would work. 300ma current rating would handle the 19 sets of 3. It would have to be weather protected if used outside, of course. You should trial run a bar of them to check brightness to be sure you are happy. Don't expect high brightness since this is low drive current.

I am partial to the Radio Shack 276-017 5mm LED. It is not cool white like typical white LEDs. It is more neutral in color and would look nicer, IMO. They have good longevity but are expensive at a buck each. You will get a discount in qty but would have to custom order for that many.


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## nein166 (May 27, 2009)

Nice project. These should fit into your beer budget.
Low Degradation High Lumen 5mm 20degree from besthongkong
I bought the 120 degree version and found it to be a more neutral white than ultra bright white.


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## clint357 (May 27, 2009)

Use a Cree star dropped into a 3/8" long x 3/4" dia copper pipe end cap with a hole drilled in the inside radius of the cap for the power wires. Put a piece of 1/4" heat shrink around the bezel of the led lens and fill the cap up with MG chemicals thermally conductive epoxy. After it's dried, carefully use an exacto to cut out the heat shrink tubing so it won't shrink around the hot LED. Now there is just enough room to drill 2 mounting holes on the very outside of the unit. All done. I'll post pics later. 

From another forum I belong to
http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=100905&highlight=led


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## ledstein (May 27, 2009)

What you need is a string of led modules which are waterproof. They are used mostly for sign lighting. The have wide view angle and will make the lighting effect as you need it. Installation is also real easy (if u want easy).

Unfortunately most such led modules use china leds which just suck but here is a place where they use Nichia NSPWR70BS Superflux leds:

http://www.ledrise.com/product_info...--21lm--100--176---92mm--12V.html&language=en

If i get it right 84 feet means 25 meters or 225 modules if u want uniform light all the way. Even with shipping it means u will pay 0.99 usd per nichia led which is also installed in a product (one module is 2.94 usd).


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## McGizmo (May 27, 2009)

Hi Tom,
You can certainly go brighter than the MicroStar if you wish using some high power LED's. However you can get brighter and similar results if you go with the Nichia 310DS which is also a 3 mm LED and a number of generations after the venerable 312BS. (The 310DS is quite a bit brighter than the 312BS but shares a similar beam pattern and distribution)

If you are going to use a 12V power supply then you can and should consider three of the LED's in series with a resistor as the three will pull the same power as the single Micro Star does. You should be able to find a grommet that will easily reside in a hole you drill in the bottom of the railing and serve as host to the 3 mm LED as well. Leave the leads long on the LED and let your solder joints stand up from the bottom of the top rail face so no condensation would puddle around them. You can use 20 or 22 gage wire on the LED's which give you plenty or room in the top rail chamber.

I suggest you go conservative on the drive level of the LED's so that you can enjoy a longer lumen maintenance.

I have done a few rail installations myself and find the results quite pleasing. :thumbsup:

The MicroStar was designed for more corrosive and demanding environments than your intended application here and you can effectively cut some corners.


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## bshanahan14rulz (May 27, 2009)

I'd stay away from high-power unless you are really ready to put some serious work into these rails (heat management, high current, special drivers)

And McGizmo, was it you who pretty much completely converted his house to LED lighting? 

And Op, frosted glass anytime soon?


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## McGizmo (May 27, 2009)

Thermal management is a piece of cake; use the top rail as the heat sink!



> And McGizmo, was it you who pretty much completely converted his house to LED lighting?



Yes, I have converted my house over to LED and actually the MicroStar is my design and invention. The application in cable railing was also an idea I came up with. I think it is a great application but hopefully I have also qualified myself as likely being a bit biased on the subject! :nana:


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## bshanahan14rulz (May 28, 2009)

hey, kill two birds with one stone: rail doubles as hand warmer on those chilly nights!


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## YW84U (May 29, 2009)

Wow! I appreciate all of the responses everyone!

So, I started reading up more on Besthongkong, strip lights/modules, Rat Shack LEDs......and now my mind is swimming! So many choices, pros and cons...

McGizmo - Thank You ever so much for your post as well - indeed, when I first saw your name, for the briefest of moments I thought maybe I was in trouble  (I knew you were the father of the Microstar, and thought perhaps I had unknowingly maligned you with my beer budget comment!). 

The 310DS sounds promising - from what I've read so far, I think a Nichia is probably a best choice for longevity, fade and overall output. I note the Nichia Store has them only listed as special order - are they in the same realm price-wise and availablilty as the 312BS? As well, is there anything advantageous to go 3mm vs 5mm? As well, are these dimmable? I have Insteon Home Automation stuff running things around the house, and if I could somehow use one of their modules for dimming that would be handy!

On another note, would a grommet-mounted 310 generate much heat? My original thought was to acquire some of those chrome metal LED panel holders to help dump heat and serve as a bit of reflective housing. If I could get by with just a grommet, that would leave me the ability to change the bulbs out after the top rail is affixed!

I will be going with 3 LEDs in series with (an undetermined) resistor for each 54" glass panel, and then tying them into the 'main' 20ga wire that will run the length of the rail. I will have 18 glass panels, and one 6ft run of pickets for the stairs for a grand total of 57 LEDs. I believe this should be enough to get the effect/illumination I'm after. I won't want to drive them too hard, since longevity is fairly key for me. Are you able to point me to information on determining the best mA number to go with?

Sorry for all the questions  I'm excited about undertaking this, and want to make sure I get it right the 'first time' 

Thanks in Advance,

Tom


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## jamaicabraden (Aug 28, 2010)

You can do your own version. You just have to make it sure that you're following the instructions. You can refer at www.instructables.com/id/LED-Deck-Lighting-in-color/ for instructions.


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