# Li-Ion Battery Shoot Out



## SilverFox (May 7, 2006)

This has been a long time coming, but here it is. I have finally put enough data together to present a comparison of some of the Li-Ion cells that are available. This will be an ongoing project and I will add cells as I get them.

I would like to acknowledge Mike at Pacific Tactical Solutions for the MicroFire and Wolf Eyes cells, Jon Burly for the Pila cells, AW for the AW cells, and Codeman for a variety of R-CR123 cells.

Here is some data to review…


MicroFire























Pila






















Wolf Eyes






















A while back, Pila and Wolf Eyes batteries were basically the same. Since Pila has re-designed their cells, the question has come up as to whether they are still the same as the Wolf Eyes. It appears that the 300 and 600 cells are different from the old Pila 150 and 168 cells.

Some have observed that their lights that would work with the old Pila cells, no longer work with the new Pila cells. It appears that the new Pila cells have a PTC that has a little bit lower shut off value than the old Pila or the Wolf Eyes cells.

The cells used for the MicroFire, Pila, Wolf Eyes, AW, and LG tests were all charged on the new Pila IBC charger.


AW







LG







Tenergy







Xpea sent me a Samsung ICR 18650 28A cell to check out. These didn’t quite live up to their advertised 2800 mAh capacity, but they seem to be strong performers. At 6 amps the cell was heating up a lot, so I stopped testing there. 

Here is the Samsung data







Icantsee sent me some Emoli cells to check out. These are 26700 size, so they are a little larger than what we have been used to, but if you can figure out a way to use them, they are solid performers. 15 amps is no problem for these cells, and you can push them harder. At 20 amps they started to heat up, so I stopped there. These are also referred to as Molicells, and I believe they are the IMR26700 cells. Milwaukee tools use these cells in their 28 volt tools. They are Lithium Manganese Oxide, so they are more tolerant of overcharge. Here is the Molicell press release for these cells.

In the press release, they are listed as 3000 mAh capacity, but the cells that I tested had 2900 mAh on them, I think. Perhaps Icantsee can check that out when he gets his cells back.

Thanks Icantsee.

Here is the Emoli data







Here is some R-CR123 data...


LightHound







AW







BatteryStation







Powerizer







It has come to my attention (thanks Chevrofreak and Flea Bag) that the graphs of the R-CR123 tests are difficult to compare because of the difference in Y axis ranges on the graphs. Looking at the graphs without paying close attention to the voltage scale, it would appear that the AW cells fall off drastically, compared to the Powerizer cells.

The Y axis of the graphs is selected to zoom in as much as possible on the data, yet still allow the legend to be read without overlapping the graph lines. As more tests are combined in a single graph, the legend size grows. To accommodate the larger legend size, the Y axis is extended.

I apologize for any confusion resulting from this.

Here is a comparison graph of the R-CR123 cells tested above utilizing the same Y axis scale.








Tom


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## LEDcandle (May 7, 2006)

*Re: Li-Ion Shoot Out*

Great job as usual Tom!! :goodjob:
Looks like the Microfire's hold up in the high currents (5A), but the Pilas crash.


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## Navck (May 7, 2006)

*Re: Li-Ion Shoot Out*

Are MP cells in this, with some generic R123 protected cells?


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## cy (May 7, 2006)

*Re: Li-Ion Shoot Out*

thanks for all the work!!!


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## AlexGT (May 7, 2006)

*Re: Li-Ion Shoot Out*

Great work Tom! Very informative

AlexGT


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## SilverFox (May 7, 2006)

*Re: Li-Ion Shoot Out*

Update:

One of the main reasons for starting this thread was to compare the new Pila cells with the Wolf Eyes cells. Also, to look at other cells that are available, such as those from AW and the LG cells.

I will add to this as I get new cells to test.

Tom


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## Sway (May 7, 2006)

Very useful information Tom, thanks!

Later
Kelly


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## liteMANIAC (May 7, 2006)

I'm not qite sure how to interpret these graphs. Could someone give me a quick explination on how to understand it all. Also im interested in getting a u85, so how do i use the graphs to find out the best cell for it?


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## Bullzeyebill (May 7, 2006)

Who makes MicroFire batteries. They look better than Pila, or WolfEyes. Hold voltage better than LG 2400's.

Bill


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## oldschoolripper (May 8, 2006)

On the rcr123's:

Is the powerizer non protected and the AW's and Batt Station are?

I like the consistancy at different current draws on the powerizer be it's not worth it if their not protected.

I'm looking for some rechargables for my Big Q3 and I thought AW's might be good, but now I'm not so sure. They have poor performance at higher current draws.


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## LEDcandle (May 8, 2006)

Looks like the 123 size batts can't even do up to 2C... and AW's 123s look like they can't hold even mildly higher current, although his 17500 is quite good. 

This seems consistent with my set of AW 17500s, which at a 1amp regulated draw, last about 66mins. 



liteMANIAC said:


> I'm not qite sure how to interpret these graphs. Could someone give me a quick explination on how to understand it all. Also im interested in getting a u85, so how do i use the graphs to find out the best cell for it?



Hey liteMANIAC,

Firstly, each graph represents a different battery being tested. Check out the title of the graph to confirm what brand of batt and what capacity it has. 

Then, in each graph, each battery is being put under different discharge loads to test how they hold up. The bigger batts are tested under 1 - 5A loads, while the smaller ones, 0.5 - 2A loads. 

In the "legend" box on the top of the graph, you can see how the batt fares under each load. E.g :-

LG 18650 2400 mah
1A - 2.243Ah, 8.203Wh, 134.6M
5A - 1.978Ah, 6.428Wh, 23.7M

This means at a 1 Amp load, the LG battery actually has about 2243 actual mah capacity (as opposed to their rating of 2400) and can last for 134.6 mins.

When put under a heavier load (5 Amps), it is effectively only 1978 actual mah and can last for 23.7 mins. Not too bad if you notice how some other batteries totally "crash" at higher Amps. 

I'll let someone else chip in on Watt hours as I'm not too sure how to explain that myself. I guess it's the power it can produce in an hour.

For deciding which batt is best, find out how much current ur light draws, then choose a batt that has the highest capacity at that current. But of course you may switch that batt to other lights in future, so maybe look for something good in all areas.


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## onthebeam (May 8, 2006)

Hi Silverfox,

Kudos and thanks!

I'm glad you switched to charts rather than graphs for your rankings of other battery types. Adding charts here, with a comparison chart for each battery type, would really be helpful, too.

Also, perhaps a small listing of which battery type=replacement for which type of standard battery would be great. AW does this and it's easy to see that a 14500 replaces a AA for example.

Are you working on any CR2 battery comparisons??


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## liteMANIAC (May 8, 2006)

LEDcandle thanks for the explination, very helpful.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (May 12, 2006)

Tom, 
For the record, I used to state that MicroFire cells are protected. I've since come to understand that they're *unprotected*. Can you verify this?


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## SilverFox (May 12, 2006)

Hello Paul,

That is correct. The MicroFire cells are unprotected.

Tom


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## leukos (May 13, 2006)

I'm impressed with Powerizer's RCR-123's.


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## BentHeadTX (May 13, 2006)

Thanks Silver,
I find the results for the AW sort of depressing but they work well with my FF3 so I won't replace them any time soon. Maybe when an RCR123 can acutally push and amp for one hour (1,000mAH) I'll make the jump. As always, great graphs and useful information to keep everything in focus. :thumbsup:


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## wtraymond (May 23, 2006)

leukos said:


> I'm impressed with Powerizer's RCR-123's.



The Powerizer RCR123s certainly perform better than the other RCR123s tested, especially at higher amp draws. They are very good at maintaining their voltage at 2 amps too!


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## TheSteve (Jun 8, 2006)

Lots of useful information in this thread - should be stickied.

Just to add some info:

I recently bought some lithium ion rechargable CR123s off ebay advertised as 1000ma - I knew it was too good to be true but thought I'd see just how close they came.(99 cents plus shipping for a pair)
At a 1 amp discharge rate they provided 605ma of capacity from 4.20 volts to 3 volts. Not even close to the 1000ma listed capacity but better then a lot of other rechargable CR123s.


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## hord (Jun 29, 2006)

This thread is too good to loose in the mix... so


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## chevrofreak (Jun 29, 2006)

Have you tried any of the purple colored "LIR123 800mAh" cells that Dae has? I bought some a while back and they perform quite well for me. Theres no way they're 800mAh, but they should be atleast 650.


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## chevrofreak (Jun 29, 2006)

oldschoolripper said:


> I'm looking for some rechargables for my Big Q3 and I thought AW's might be good, but now I'm not so sure. They have poor performance at higher current draws.


 

If by "Big Q3" you mean the Nuwai TM-301X-3, you can't use 3.7/4.2v cells in it without burning it out.


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## FlashlightPhreak (Jun 30, 2006)

Great job Silverfox !


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## grift (Jul 22, 2006)

the powerizers arent protected are they? if anyone knows for sure please let me know. gonna order some asap but not if unprotected.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 23, 2006)

grift, no the Powerizers are not protected. Don't let the unprotected aspect of the Powerizer's daunt you. Don't know what you would use RCR123's for, but the Powerizer's are good for single cell application's, particularly if the light has an LDO circuit, such as Chameleon, and HDS's. Also are good in series with Surefire A2. I have used them in incan applications, such as running the P90 LA, but I monitor the voltage status of the cells, and shut down the light when it noticeably dims. 

Bill


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## John N (Jul 31, 2006)

Thanks very much Tom! 

Any plans to run the following cells:

- LG 18650, unprotected, 2600mAH
- MP 17670, unprotected, 1500mAh (AW)
- GMB 18650, unprotected, 2200mAh (AW)

It might also be interesting to be able to compare best of breed unprotected 17670 (1500mAh AFAIK) vs a protected 17650 since these are sized for the same application.

Thanks,

-john


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## grift (Aug 1, 2006)

Bill,

thanks for the info. id mainly be using it in my HDS like you said. so i'll order some up i believe. got 4 of the battery station ones now but never hurts to have a few more and test which is better. how would they perform in a Surefire M3? would it burn the lamp out? im sure it would w/3 in series? also to protect the battery dont ya need to turn them off when they dim down alot?


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## CroMAGnet (Aug 2, 2006)

Very nice! Thanx a lot!

So those Powerizer RCR123 are pretty awesome or am I not reading something correctly?

Where can we get them?


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## chevrofreak (Aug 3, 2006)

CroMAGnet, the Powerizer graph is a bit deceptive because the voltage scale is different than all of the other graphs, it makes the line appear flatter than the others.

I just got some of the LG 2400mAh 18650's the other day and these things are pretty impressive. They run way longer than a pair of primary cells in the SureFire U2 on high.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Aug 10, 2006)

my maha777plus seems to put a lot more charge in my RC123 battery`s than my DSD charger.

I can take an fully charged battery from my DSD charger, and charge it in my MAHA, and it will put another 230ma into the battery.

the voltage when the MAHA is finished is 4.27v is this a little high.

even if you consider an 20% loss, 180ma is not bad, but it takes a long time to charge though.

edit: my DSD charger only chargers to 3.98volts.

regards.


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## SilverFox (Aug 10, 2006)

Hello Tinderbox (UK),

4.27 volts will give you more capacity at the expense of lower cycle life. Charging to 4.1 volts is supposed to give you around 2000 cycles, whereas charging to 4.3 volts only gives you around 100 cycles. Charging to 4.2 volts is the industry standard and is supposed to give you around 500 cycles. It allows for a lack of precision in circuits and charger components.

Tom

Tom


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## TinderBox (UK) (Aug 10, 2006)

hello tom

I think 250 cycles would be fine for me, that twice a week for 3 years.

lin-ion battery`s are only supposed to last for around 3 years anyway.

the MAHA777plus seems to overcharge the battery`s a bit.

thanks.


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## TheIlluminator (Aug 10, 2006)

Tinderbox, check out my thread(DSD charger info) in Flashlight electrinics for the explanation for low cell capacity when using the DSD charger.


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## chevrofreak (Aug 10, 2006)

TheIlluminator said:


> Tinderbox, check out my thread(DSD charger info) in Flashlight electrinics for the explanation for low cell capacity when using the DSD charger.


 
I read your thread and I didn't see that there was anything wrong with the DSD.


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## TheIlluminator (Aug 11, 2006)

Chevrofreak, you must have missed the part about the DSD charger only charging cells to 60%-70% capacity. Try re-reading the thread.

TheIlluminator


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## JanCPF (Aug 11, 2006)

My protected 18650 cells comes of both my DSD chargers (I have two) at an open circuit voltage of 4.20-4.22 volts. Isn't that about 100% or did I miss something?

Jan


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## chevrofreak (Aug 11, 2006)

My cells come out of the DSD at about 4.13v which is pretty much fully charged.


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## jar3ds (Aug 11, 2006)

mine comes off more similar to chev... 4.1* range...

Jan: I wonder if your DDM is just off or something... just a thought


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## JanCPF (Aug 11, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> mine comes off more similar to chev... 4.1* range...
> 
> Jan: I wonder if your DDM is just off or something... just a thought


Hmm, I don't think so. It's a pretty good Fluke meter. I just checked one of my R123 cells, and it comes of the charger at around 4.14 volts, so it somehow depends on the cells or maybe it has something to do with the protection circuit - I don't know. :shrug:

Jan


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## LumenHound (Aug 11, 2006)

My 18650's also come off the DSD at 4.20-4.22 and I too have a pair of DSD chargers. The voltage readings are the same on 3 different multimeters.


JanCPF said:


> My protected 18650 cells comes of both my DSD chargers (I have two) at an open circuit voltage of 4.20-4.22 volts. Isn't that about 100% or did I miss something?
> 
> Jan


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## TheIlluminator (Aug 11, 2006)

I have done some more testing and I think that I have figured out how the DSD charger charges your batteries to such a high voltage. As I have mentioned before the DSD charger is a single stage charger that cuts off charging at a specific voltage. Charging in this manner results in a cell that is 60%-70% charged. To give a more fully charged cell the DSD charger applies a voltage higher than 4.2v rather than regulating it at 4.2v. The cutoff voltage for 2 cells that I charged were 4.280v (mp rcr123) and 4.287v (awrcr123). The recommended charging voltage for a li-ion is 4.2v +or- .05v. The DSD charger does exceed the recommended voltage for a li-ion battery, but not by much. Having such a high cutoff voltage results in a cell that is more completely charged. The voltage of my cells after resting for 24 hours is 4.140v and 4.110v.


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## John N (Sep 6, 2006)

John N said:


> Any plans to run the following cells:
> 
> - LG 18650, unprotected, 2600mAH
> - MP 17670, unprotected, 1500mAh (AW)
> ...



I noticed those 2600 mah 18650s are in stock now....



-john


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## LumenHound (Sep 6, 2006)

It's been announced in this thread that some testing and runtime graphs for the LG 18650 2600mAh cells is in the works.


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## 4sevens (Sep 23, 2006)

silverF, The graph of the BS cells... is that the new 900mah protected rcr123's?


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## SilverFox (Sep 23, 2006)

Hello 4sevens,

Codeman sent me the BS cells for testing. You will have to check with him to make sure exactly what cells they are.

Tom


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## SilverFox (Nov 16, 2006)

It has come to my attention (thanks Chevrofreak and Flea Bag) that the graphs of the R-CR123 tests are difficult to compare because of the difference in Y axis ranges on the graphs. Looking at the graphs without paying close attention to the voltage scale, it would appear that the AW cells fall off drastically, compared to the Powerizer cells.

The Y axis of the graphs is selected to zoom in as much as possible on the data, yet still allow the legend to be read without overlapping the graph lines. As more tests are combined in a single graph, the legend size grows. To accommodate the larger legend size, the Y axis is extended.

I apologize for any confusion resulting from this.

I have added a comparison graph of the R-CR123 cells tested utilizing the same Y axis scale. I hope this makes it easier to interpret the results.

Tom


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## chevrofreak (Nov 16, 2006)

SilverFox, thank you for that composite image, it makes it quite a bit easier for direct comparison.


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## cmaylodm (Jan 22, 2007)

Are the AW RCR123s in the test the old blue label or new black version?


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## SilverFox (Jan 22, 2007)

Hello Cmaylodm,

Blue label.

Tom


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## chevrofreak (Jan 22, 2007)

I'd be quite interested to see tests of the new black label "high current" cells that AW is selling. They did really very well in the Fenix P1D CE on high.


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## mdocod (Apr 29, 2007)

would be great to see some tests of the *new* AW high current RCR123s... maybe AW would be willing to send ya one for testing, hehe.. My experience with them isn't anything like the graph of the old cells.


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## SilverFox (May 7, 2007)

Update:

Icantsee sent me some of the Molicell Emoli IMR26700 cells to check out. The results are posted in the first post.

These cells are Lithium Manganese Oxide, which means that they are safer than the normal Lithium Cobalt cells. They hold up under load very well.

Tom


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## mdocod (May 7, 2007)

wow, those cells are incredible. 20 amps only lost about 20% capacity(WH) compared to 1 amp. seems to hold AH up and loose V instead.


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## icantsee (May 7, 2007)

Thanks again for taking time to do the testing.

John


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## SilverFox (May 7, 2007)

Hello John,

I didn't try a 15 minute charge... I figured I would let you work on that one.

I do know that if you run the cells hot off the charger, you get even better performance.

I would also advise you to pay attention to your charger. The Schulze had a little bit of a problem charging these cells. They have an impedance of around 0.019 ohms, however, at full charge and a low currents the internal resistance more than doubles. This threw my Schulze off and it was terminating the charge at just over 4.1 volts. The Schulze is very picky about internal resistance.

I ended up parallel charging them with my power supply. The charge time at 0.5C was around 3 hours, and the cells ended up at 4.200 volts.

Tom


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## jayflash (May 7, 2007)

Yet again, thank you, Tom, for your unending efforts. You've advanced our knowledge, continuously, with useful info for the CPF rank & file masses. I'll bet that almost all of us have benefited from your help.


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## mdocod (May 7, 2007)

> I'll bet that almost all of us have benefited from your help.



+1 to that!

I find myself referencing your charts constantly. invaluable. Thank You for all the hard work and words of wisdom!


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## icantsee (May 7, 2007)

Tom,
My charger is an FMA Balance-Pro. I've been setting it for a .7c charge rate based on 2900ah. Should I be using .5c? My charger terminates at 4.2v. Some of the guys on the RC forums are talking about routinely using 3c charge rates and supposedly getting hundreds of cycles. Do you feel .7c is reasonable?
John


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## cy (May 7, 2007)

very much worth revisiting!!!


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## LuxLuthor (May 7, 2007)

SilverFox said:


> Update:
> 
> Icantsee sent me some of the Molicell Emoli IMR26700 cells to check out. The results are posted in the first post.
> 
> ...



WOW on those cells....and yeah, great thread to revisit. Thank you Tom!


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## Daekar (May 22, 2007)

Do any of you know if it's possible to charge these 3.7v RCR123a's on a Pila charger? The only fluke I can see is I'll need a set of spacers, the voltage over/under thing shouldn't be an issue, yes? Anybody know where I can get some spacers?


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## SilverFox (May 22, 2007)

Hello Daekar,

There are two versions of the Pila charger. The original version is not suitable for R-CR123 charging. The new version is labeled IBC and is suitable for charging those cells. Make sure you use the correct charger if you go this way.

Tom


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## Codeman (May 22, 2007)

SilverFox said:


> Hello 4sevens,
> 
> Codeman sent me the BS cells for testing. You will have to check with him to make sure exactly what cells they are.
> 
> Tom



Sheez, I can't believe I just now saw this thread... :green: 

If memory serves me, the BS cells are the older, protected "800 mAh" flavor.

Thanks for another great reference, Tom. :thumbsup:


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## barkingmad (May 31, 2007)

I have some of the new AW RCR123A 'black' protected cells - if I get time later will run them through my CBA-II at some different loads to see how they come out...


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## barkingmad (Jun 1, 2007)

Ok - did tests on 5 new (bought in the last 4-6 weeks) cells - each has had just a few cycles. They are the new style AW ICR123 (black label) cells with a quoted capacity of 750mah.

All cells were fully charged with an Ultrafire WF-138 charger and when tested were all about 4.17-4.20v.

Each was tested with a cut-off voltage of 2.8v and different loads with the following results:

Discharge 100ma - capacity 610mah
Discharge 400ma - capacity 550mah
Discharge 750ma - capacity 560mah
Discharge 1000ma - capacity 550mah
Discharge 1500ma - capacity 490mah

Think it must just be standard that capacities are generally over-rated!


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## DM51 (Jun 1, 2007)

That chimes with observed results of discharging at 1500mA ("2C", according to manufacturer's specs) which with 2 of them driving an LF HO-9 at 1.5A, gives a run-time of ~20 mins, which suggests 3C - this would fit with a capacity of 490mAh at that discharge rate.


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## barkingmad (Jun 1, 2007)

DM51 said:


> That chimes with observed results of discharging at 1500mA ("2C", according to manufacturer's specs) which with 2 of them driving an LF HO-9 at 1.5A, gives a run-time of ~20 mins, which suggests 3C - this would fit with a capacity of 490mAh at that discharge rate.


 
Just a bit of a shame even with the best figures they are almost 20% lower than the stated capacity.

This is certainly not an issue just with AW cells as I am fairly sure it will be the same for most brands - have some others and will test when I get a bit of time over the weekend.

I am also going to test a few primary cells to see how they compare!


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## SilverFox (Jun 1, 2007)

Hello Barkingmad,

Keep in mind that primary CR123 cells are rated at something like 100 mA of load. Discharging at higher rates will give you reduced capacity.

I should also remind you that discharging Li-Ion cells at high rates often diminishes the capacity of the cell. You may be amazed at the reduction in capacity after a few high rate discharge tests. This can occur at rates as low as 2C, based on actual capacity and not the labeled capacity.

It is interesting to go back and do another 500 mA test after running some high current tests to compare how much capacity has been lost during the testing.

Tom


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## Daekar (Jun 4, 2007)

SilverFox said:


> Hello Daekar,
> 
> There are two versions of the Pila charger. The original version is not suitable for R-CR123 charging. The new version is labeled IBC and is suitable for charging those cells. Make sure you use the correct charger if you go this way.
> 
> Tom



It seems that I do - it says Pila IBC on the bottom. Anybody got a lead on those spacers?


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## Forlix (Jun 4, 2007)

The Pila IBC works great for all kinds of cylindrical 3.6/3.7V cells. You can use CR123 spacers by AW. I also bought two from him, but the shrink wrap was not very well done (some creases) so i removed it, bought some 19mm shrink wrap from ebay in red color (so i can better distinguish the spacers from batteries) and while i was at it, lathed another two spacers with same dimensions. Then shrinked them all and this is the result

Spacers & CR123 cells
http://www.received21.de/cgi-bin/r21de/idsp.cgi?id=2007052816372402;rc=00;lp=0;pp=20;

Spacers & batteries in charger
http://www.received21.de/cgi-bin/r21de/idsp.cgi?id=2007052816421502;rc=00;lp=0;pp=20;

Very nice, but its damn hard to make a good shrink wrap around solid aluminum - it has to be preheated, the shrink-wrap has to be cut just the right size, it has to spin while shrinking it with hot air, and last but not least you have to be careful to shrink both ends equally, or it will pull to one end and look bad... after many tries i got it right for 4 of them :thumbsup:


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## big beam (Jun 15, 2007)

TOM,
With all the new lights using 14500's will you be doing any testing on them?It would be interesting to see.
DON


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 15, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> WOW on those cells....and yeah, great thread to revisit. Thank you Tom!



I just bought some of these emoli cells from here. I love that you can use a normal Li-Ion charger (don't need the A123 specialized setup).


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## big beam (Jun 16, 2007)

deleted


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## KDOG3 (Jun 16, 2007)

Are these the Powerizer cells used in the test? I use the yellow jacketed Batterystation 3.7v 900mah cells, are they the ones in the test also? Maybe a picture of the cell actually tested next to the corresponding graph would help clarify things for dummies like me. 

I'm currently looking for the best 3.7v E1L so it stays in 2 cell mode for the longest amount of time, the current draw should be around 500mah. As I understand it, you shouldn't use unprotected cells with LEDs, correct? Because the driver will kill the cells?

But above all, great work. Seriously. I would not have the patience for something like that....


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## Codeman (Jun 16, 2007)

KDOG3 said:


> Are these the Powerizer cells used in the test? I use the yellow jacketed Batterystation 3.7v 900mah cells, are they the ones in the test also? Maybe a picture of the cell actually tested next to the corresponding graph would help clarify things for dummies like me.
> 
> I'm currently looking for the best 3.7v E1L so it stays in 2 cell mode for the longest amount of time, the current draw should be around 500mah. As I understand it, you shouldn't use unprotected cells with LEDs, correct? Because the driver will kill the cells?
> 
> But above all, great work. Seriously. I would not have the patience for something like that....



Yes, those are the Powerizers that I sent to SilverFox.

In fact, here's a photo of 4 of the exact cells that I sent him (glad I put the dot on them!):







Top to bottom, they are

AW 750mAH protected
BatteryStation ???mAh protected
LightHound 800mAh unprotected
Powerizer 650mAh overvoltage protection only


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## KDOG3 (Jun 16, 2007)

Ok cool. I was hoping to see one of these tested. But not going to worry about it.


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## darmawaa (May 18, 2008)

Can unprotected 18650 handle 12 Amp?


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## SilverFox (May 18, 2008)

Hello Darmawaa,

In a very short duration pulse, yes.

As a continuous load, no.

Tom


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## darmawaa (May 18, 2008)

5 to 10 minutes?


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## SilverFox (May 18, 2008)

Hello Darmawaa,

No, 1/2 - 1 second.

Tom


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## LuxLuthor (May 19, 2008)

Tom, the exception to the rule are the 18650 Emoli/Konion & A123 that I mentioned in this thread. They are not as robust as their 26700 size Papa Bear, but they have some serious juice--sustained !

Also, worth mentioning that the AW test charts are not the current upgraded models that AW has been selling for the last year which output much better.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 26, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> Tom, the exception to the rule are the 18650 Emoli/Konion & A123 that I mentioned in this thread. They are not as robust as their 26700 size Papa Bear, but they have some serious juice--sustained !
> 
> Also, worth mentioning that the AW test charts are not the current upgraded models that AW has been selling for the last year which output much better.



See this thread, now a sticky, https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2532646#post2532646

Raymond is using current AW protected RCR123's. They are still under performing. Post 16 mentions the use of current AW cells.

Bill


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## Dukester (Oct 24, 2008)

John N said:


> Thanks very much Tom!
> 
> Any plans to run the following cells:
> 
> ...



Hi John - The website says* LC* 18650's. Are these the same as the *LG* 18650? Maybe I am missing something or their is a misprint on their website?

Thanks,
Dave


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 24, 2008)

Dukesters said:


> Hi John - The website says* LC* 18650's. Are these the same as the *LG* 18650? Maybe I am missing something or their is a misprint on their website?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dave



LC is most likely abbreviated for *Lithium Cobalt* chemistry type. LG is a large South Korean battery manufacturer. When you see a higher capacity like that (vs. 1200 to 1600mAh), you are dealing with Lithium Cobalt 18650 cells. I believe those cells are from a factory in China.


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## bpbauer7 (Dec 29, 2008)

Ive been looking for some good info about RCR123a's to help me decide what to buy. Thanks for the info.


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## xpea (Dec 29, 2008)

Silverfox,

I will receive in 2 days new SAMSUNG ICR18650-28A ( 2800MAH). Do you want to test it for all cpf members ?
I have also 2 new Nimh LSD cells that can be tested :
YUASA Enitime 800MAH (AAA) and 2100MAH (AA)
POWERLION Infinita 900MAH (AAA) and 2200MAH (AA)

The last one seems to have favorable reviews in China with capacity often exceeding their rating. And the price is also much cheaper than Eneloop.

Please contact me in PM if you are interested 

Thx


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## SilverFox (Mar 16, 2009)

Hello Xpea,

I just added the data from the Samsung cell.

It seems to be a strong performer, but doesn't quite live up to its claimed 2800 mAh capacity. 

I stopped testing at 6 amps because of high cell temperatures during the test.

Tom


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## Patriot (Mar 16, 2009)

This is fantastic and I've referred to it several times. Since this thread is coming up on 3 years old and is going to be updated from time to time, it might be helpful to have the test date next to each graph. For example, I'd be curious how today's black wrapped AW RCR123 would do against the previous one of unknown test date. 

Thanks for all of your hard work!


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## metlarules (May 23, 2009)

I can't wait to see the test on the new AW p18650 2600mah li-ion cell.


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## jar3ds (Jun 14, 2009)

anybody seen a aw c sized li-ion discharge done? I'm really curious to see how it performs under 2.8~3amp discharge...

Thanks for any help!


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## metlarules (Jun 23, 2009)

Silverfox
Is the Tenergy 2200mah 18650 test just one battery or have you tested others? The reason I ask is to see if these are more consistent from battery to battery than usual Tenergy products.


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## SilverFox (Jun 24, 2009)

Hello Metlarules,

I tested 2 cells and they were very consistent.

Tom


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## metlarules (Jul 13, 2009)

I ordered 6 of the 2200mah unprotected 18650 Tenergys from batteryspace. They sent me 2600mah Tenergy unprotected instead.
I know that the 2600mah protected Tenergys are a bit overrated. These seem to be closer to their rated capacity. I did a runtime test on 2 lights that I have. 
I usually use AW 17670 that are rated at 1600mah in both. Both lights ran 50 % longer with the Tenergys which if the rated on the AW's are correct would mean that the Tenergys have around 2400mah of actual capacity.
I got 6 cell for $6.95 delivered which isn't bad at all. I just hope that I get a couple of years use out of them.


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