# Brightest MR16 LEDs?



## ElGuano (Dec 7, 2009)

I hope I'm asking in the right forum. Lighting newb here, looking for the brightest LED replacement for a MR16 flood (60-100 degree angle), 12VDC GU5.3. Googling shows the typical retail LED is ~120 lumen (35watt halogen equivalent), and I'm wondering if there's anything better out there. Any suggestions? I prefer a drop-in solution, can solder if I get a full parts list, but won't be machining anytime soon. 

Any help is appreciated!


----------



## Gunner12 (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm not sure how it works, but there are tri and maybe even quad optics for MR16 packages. If you use 3 Cree XP-Gs at 1 amp with a tri MR16 fitting optic, you can get over 1000 lumen from the LEDs (around 800-900 something after optical losses). I don't know how much space you have, so I don't know how much heatsinking you'll need.

As for drop-ins or prebuild parts, there might be some. I think some of the bikes here use MR16 bulbs, so that section could be a good place to start.


----------



## videoman (Dec 7, 2009)

Check out Galaxy 1607S, by XLEDS, 300 lumen with a nice beam spread. I think they come in 3200 or 6000K. They have their own driver built in with a miniature fan. It is a 7W unit with 42 lumen/watt efficacy.


----------



## ElGuano (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions. The galaxy is nearly perfect, but I will be using this in an enclosure with a front lens so I'm afraid the 2.2" length may be a bit too tall. Anyone know of a good alternative that fits a standard 1.79" form factor?

Thx again.


----------



## blasterman (Dec 7, 2009)

Gunner12 said:


> If you use 3 Cree XP-Gs at 1 amp with a tri MR16 fitting optic, you can get over 1000 lumen from the LEDs


 
Sure...if you cool it with liquid nitrogen. How do you otherwise plan on a standard MR-16 heatsink to dissipate all that heat?

Cutter electronics has a nice MR-16 http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Torches+&+Incandescent+Replacement


----------



## ElGuano (Dec 7, 2009)

blasterman said:


> Sure...if you cool it with liquid nitrogen. How do you otherwise plan on a standard MR-16 heatsink to dissipate all that heat?
> 
> Cutter electronics has a nice MR-16 http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Torches+&+Incandescent+Replacement



This will actually be liquid-cooled (it'll be an underwater-only application in an AL housing) so I'm giving myself a bit of leeway with the "do not use in sealed enclosure" warnings.

Thanks for the suggestion on Cutter, 3x XR-E looks pretty good and I'll probably go with that.

On a related note, I'm trying to figure out if the 3x3w LEDs in this light is MR16 (and if it's available anywhere else) - I've got a similar housing and I think this is what I want to find, ideally. It claims 800 lumens. Sounds high, but again, underwater heatsinking makes it seem quite possible.


----------



## blasterman (Dec 8, 2009)

Should be with an XP-G and a 1amp driver.

None of the 'over the counter' MR-16's will push this high because of assumed thermal limitations with the heatsink. However, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Cutter wouldn't put a higher power driver in if requested.

Just a thought


----------



## Eltehs (Oct 24, 2010)

blasterman said:


> None of the 'over the counter' MR-16's will push this high because of assumed thermal limitations with the heatsink.


 
I have tested the possibility of the MR16 size lights with 4*XPG and 7*XPG - about 1200lm and 2000lm, including all losses. Both use active cooler setup and looks really small, considering dissipated power.
After 3 hours at room temperature 4*XPG light have about 60 degree temperature and 7*XPG about 75 degree temperature - looks well within 
allowable limits.

Probably, this is the brightest MR16 lights in the world.


----------



## videoman (Oct 24, 2010)

Those 4 pictures, who sells those ? As I have a need for a few bright MR16's to replace my halogen track lighting.


----------



## Eltehs (Oct 24, 2010)

videoman said:


> Those 4 pictures, who sells those ? As I have a need for a few bright MR16's to replace my halogen track lighting.


 
I did not know anyone, who sells something similar. I do it myself to check technology possibilities with different optics and LED colors.
I have tested quad XPG with different optics, from good throw CUTE-4-SS (11 degree FWHM), CUTE-4-M (19 degree FWHM) till wide GT4-XPG-WW (60 degree FWHM)
For 7up XPG I have tested it with PL121106 20 degree and PL121140 70 degree lenses. 

There are two options to power this lamps. First, use existing 12V installation, in this case I need to put driver inside the lamp. Other option - use external power supply. For testing purposes I use LPC-35-1050 power supply, 100-240 VAC input and 1050mA constant current output. For this option internal PCB is simpler - only LEDs and power for active cooler. 
Next, do you need it dimmable with standard AC dimmer ? In this case second option would not work. 

Probably I can manufacture some run of this lamps, however it looks like I need to receive manufacturer status on this forum, if I want to make something for sell.


----------



## Optical Inferno (Oct 25, 2010)

Nice designs. Nuventix coolers I take it??? Are those Khatod lenses as well??

Your temperature measurements...were they the heatsink temps or the board temps??


----------



## Eltehs (Oct 25, 2010)

Optical Inferno said:


> Nice designs. Nuventix coolers I take it??? Are those Khatod lenses as well??
> 
> Your temperature measurements...were they the heatsink temps or the board temps??


 
Yes, it is Nuventix coolers. I have tested both Khatod and LEDIL lenses for quad and only Khatod lenses for 7up. LEDIL lenses provide good throw, especially CUTE-4-SS, about 11 degree FWHM with XP-G LEDs and looks good for spotlights. Khatod lenses is good for general lighting. For example, 7up looks better and provide similar light, as 100W incadescent bulb in my room.

As regarding temperature measurements, I have measured both heatsink and LED board temperature in different points, using precision Micro-Epsilon LS infrared thermometer with measured spot size 1mm and maximum temperature detection function. Temperature of the board near the LEDs are about 5 degree higher, than outer heatsink pipes, so LEDs is about 65 degree and 80 degree accordingly.


----------



## VanIsleDSM (Oct 27, 2010)

Nice job Eltehs.

I build and sell/install MR16 conversions locally, though I haven't gotten into active cooling with the Nuventix coolers yet. I prefer passive and very efficient setups. Spending more on LEDs and reducing current across them to reduce heat and gain higher efficiency, though, 1200 and 2000 lumen would not be possible with this technique.

Using the latest XPG warm white Q5 LEDs X3 running at 350mA I get over 100 lumen/watt. After driver conversion it's still high 90's, for warm white! Heatsink temps are 40-60 depending on ambient temp and airflow in the room.

Over 300 lumen each, they fall right in between a 35W and a 50W MR16, and work great for replacing either.

I also like using 4000K R4 neutral LEDs to achieve nearly 400 lumen per MR16, passively cooled, wonderful colour rendering, and well over 100 lumen/watt even after driver loss.

An LED driver is installed in the junction box for the fixture, usually I find myself doing 3XMR16 fixtures, running all LEDs in series for maximum driver effiency requires rewiring the fixture to run in series, and you also have to mark + and - on the socket to insert the LEDs the right way. All pretty easy stuff with basic electronic knowledge.

End up dropping a 150W fixture to ~10W.


----------



## Stephen7372 (Oct 29, 2010)

VanIsleDSM said:


> Nice job Eltehs.
> 
> I build and sell/install MR16 conversions locally, though I haven't gotten into active cooling with the Nuventix coolers yet. I prefer passive and very efficient setups. Spending more on LEDs and reducing current across them to reduce heat and gain higher efficiency, though, 1200 and 2000 lumen would not be possible with this technique.
> 
> ...



Can you supply these and have you and suggestions for g4 lights ?


----------



## Notsure Fire (Oct 29, 2010)

I was looking for that too. seems like they're not too popular yet.


----------



## 2010Steve (Oct 30, 2010)

Personally, I don't think 120 lumen for 35 watt replacement is bright enough. I saw some much more brighter replacement at Hero Led Store that can replace 40-50 watt haolgens. You may search for them.
I also purchased some from Ultra led as well as super bright leds to test all. I have all my lights replaced by halogen replacements and just think that 120lm is too lesss for brightness... Hope it helps.


----------

