# HID flashlight as a thrower, good thing ?



## markone (Sep 17, 2007)

I'm looking for a thrower flashlight with a range of at least 300 meters, and looking at specs of most famous HID seems to me that the throw angle is too wide for this job.

I'm wrong ?

Marco.


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## j3bnl (Sep 17, 2007)

Boxer 24w will reach the distances you are talking about no problem. I recently used mine at night and this range is definately within its ability.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 17, 2007)

markone said:


> I'm looking for a thrower flashlight with a range of at least 300 meters, and looking at specs of most famous HID seems to me that the throw angle is too wide for this job.
> 
> I'm wrong ?
> 
> Marco.



You need to define your parameters a bit more. How wide of a throw angle or destination spot size is too large? The only ones that are pretty narrow are the aspherical lens LED lights, Elephant HID, and of course, the mighty Maxa Beam spotlight.


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## Lumalee (Sep 17, 2007)

+1 on Luxluthor,
The Boxer 24, AE Xenides, etc are SEARCHLIGHTS, and as such the beam divergence of even 6 degs, still gives a flood effect at 300m. You really need to say what you are wanting beam wise at the far end of 300m, theres really only the asphericals that will give you a full brightnes really tight beam at those sort of distances, unless of course you can afford a Maxabeam (wish I could) which is truly awesome from what I have seen on here. hmmmmmmmm maybe I should sell all my HID's and get one !!! got me thinking now........

regards
Lee


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## Nitro (Sep 17, 2007)

300 meters? No problem for this.


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## markone (Sep 17, 2007)

OK, you all are right, i have to be more precise !

Just to give you a practical reference, what i need is something like the LumaPower MRV beam, that i happily own, but with much more lumens concentrated in similar beam angle.

In theory a 6° beam should create a spot of about 30 meters diameter @ 300 meter distance; MRV seems to be a little more narrower, but if the 24W Boxer, for instance, could create a spot @ 300 meters with the same (or superior ) brightness than MRV @ 100 meters, i do not mind if the spot diameter is greater.

To be even more precise, the tipical target is like a dark forest edge on opposite side of a river at a distance not less than 250-300 meters.

The 1800 lumens provided by the Boxer with a 6° degree beam (if real) should, on the paper, reach that target with enough strenght, but what i need is the confirmation by an HID owner.

Marco.


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## markone (Sep 17, 2007)

Nitro said:


> 300 meters? No problem for this.



Really nice toy, Nitro, but i could only imagine the price and for sure it exceeds my needings ;-)

All the review's photos show beams that seem much less than 6°, really tightened and full of strenght.

I'm staring to think that the Boxer 6 degree beam angle @ 1800 lumens should satisfy my needings.

Regards.


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## markone (Sep 17, 2007)

I have just read Wolf Eyes Shark I HID specs :

*-Power:*12V, 24W / 12V,10W
-*Colour temperature:* 6000-7000K 
-*Beam divergence adjustable:* 4 °- 16°
-*Runtime and Brightness:*
1800 lumens / 60 minutes (24W stage)
550 lumens / 130 minutes (10W stage)

Beam regulation start from 4°, that seems fine for my purpose 

Is it a good HID flashlight, for the price ?

Of course, as European customer, i will pay much more than US people :shakehead,
something like 400 Euros (over 500 USD).

But i do not think could exist an alternative to HID for distances well over 100 meters.

Any comments ?

Thanks, Marco.


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## mtbkndad (Sep 17, 2007)

The $148.75 Amondotech N30 will light up obects 300+ yards away no problem.
The beam is fairly wide but not as wide as the X990 or the Polarion products.
Is there a reason you must have a narrow beam or are you thinking you need a narrow beam to get the throw you want?

If you think you need a narrow beam to get loads of throw from an HID you are sorely mistaken. 
Now if you just want a super tight beam you could get something like the N30 and just put a beam narrowing sleeve on it.

LuxLuther owns a XeRay "Barner Burner". That has a pretty darn wide beam even on spot and has an amazing amount of Throw. It just happens to throw a wide flood beam that easily illuminates objects 600+ yards away.

My little Polarion X1 will handily light up a large area 400+ yards away.

All of the numbers I am giving are very conservative. I recently did photos of the N30 and Polarion X1 lighting up a garage 368 yards away.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## markone (Sep 18, 2007)

mtbkndad said:


> -snip
> 
> If you think you need a narrow beam to get loads of throw from an HID you are sorely mistaken.
> mtbkndad :wave:



OK, understood loud & clear 

Thanks, Marco.


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## Ra (Sep 18, 2007)

markone said:


> To be even more precise, the tipical target is like a dark forest edge on opposite side of a river at a distance not less than 250-300 meters.
> Marco.




Keep in mind that (dark...) forest-like targets don't reflect light very well..

You will need a light that produces a least 1 lux at 600 meters (360,000 beam-cp) to effectively enlighten the forest edge you mentioned..

Lights like the N30 have a relatively small reflector, I'm not shure if the N30 can reach 360,000 beam-cp.

The much bigger Platinum Thor like HID's (20+ cm reflector diameter) can throw these distances for shure!


Regards,

Ra.


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## mtbkndad (Sep 18, 2007)

Ra said:


> Keep in mind that (dark...) forest-like targets don't reflect light very well..
> 
> You will need a light that produces a least 1 lux at 600 meters (360,000 beam-cp) to effectively enlighten the forest edge you mentioned..
> 
> ...



I do not know what the N30's cp would be but I have demonstrated it to people illuminating relatively low contrast items 310 yards away with no problems. That is why I wrote 300+ yards. Bright High contrast items are easy to light up significantly farther. The N30 has no trouble out Throwing a 10 MCP Thor. At 37.5 feet a 10 MCP Thor has a lux reading of around 1400 while an N30 has a lux reading of around 1900 on my light meter. If you have ever measured the actual CP of a stock Thor you may be able to use these numbers to get approximate CP numbers. For that matter I have a decent list of lights that I have taken readings at 37.5 feet. The Polarion X1 is around 2800 lux at 37.5 feet actually closer to 2900 but I do not have any of the exact numbers in front of me right now.

The Polarion X1 has and even smaller reflector (3"), but it's super high quality reflector probably costs more to make then the N30's retail purchase price, It also uses better components and lighting up relatively a low contrast large area 400 yards away is no problem for this light. Once again I do not know what it actual CP numbers are, but I do know from exprience what it is capable of.

The same is true for the Barn Burner.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Ra (Sep 18, 2007)

Ok, for who's interested,, lets do some simple calculations:

mtbkndad, lets see if your lightmeter is properly calibrated..

I recalculated your light-measurements to cp's:

Thor 10 MCP: 1400 lux at 37.5 feet: 183,000 cp 

N30 : 1900 lux at 37.5 ft : 250,000 cp

Polarion X1 : 2800-2900 : approx 400,000 cp

Every one of these values is exactly what I would expect, with things like typical source surface-brightness and reflector-diameters in mind..

(so your lightmeter passes the test, mtbkndad..!)

I measured a Platinum Thor 15 MCP: 380,000 cp, which is to be expected because of the bigger reflector compared to the 10 MCP Thor..

Back to the N30: 250,000 cp would give 2.7 lux at 300meters (328 yards)
Tho a little on the low side, its enough to enlighten the forest at 300 yards.

There is an ever ongoing discussion about how much light is needed to effectively enlighten distant objects, and I cannot provide with answers eighter. But how I feel things: 

Are you satisfied with the observation that the object indeed is enlightened: Yes, 2.7 lux is enough to enlighten a forest at 300 meters..

But if you want to be able to see details like (deer-like) animals in that forest: I would recommend higher cp's to obtain at least 4 lux at that distance.


Regards,

Ra.


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## mtbkndad (Sep 18, 2007)

Ra,

That was great :bow: :bow: :bow: .
I have a Sper Scientific light meter it was a bit more then the Meterman that lots of CPF members use, but I have been pleased with it.

I have found that if the woods are dark or the mountain is dark the N30 will illuminate well enough to be able to see that there are animals moving at 300+ yards (seeing them and clearly identifying them are not always necessarily the same). Hikers are pretty easy to see. At that distance the light is really toward the end of it's effective range for relatively low contrast items so two things happen.

1. The 4200K color temp of the light becomes more noticeable as a green hue.
2. This causes finer details and animals that want to hide to be harder to see.

Yet with eyes that were previously adapted to complete darkness everything looks great until my Polarion X1 is turned on. At 300 yards the Polarion X1 makes animals over a wide are easily identifiable. Then if I go back to the N3 I will think WOW it looked so bright a minute ago.

Without trying to make any enemies here, I can't help but wonder if some of the people recomending 24 Watt lights are doing do because they do not know how well the 30, 35, 40, 50, & 75 watt lights will do the job.
in the case of the N30, at $148.75 it is also cheaper then the 24 watt lights.
Even though it is the lantern style body, at 3 lb 8oz it is easy to carry around and looks like an inexpensive 6 volt lantern style flashlight.

Then there are the bigger and heavier and less desireable to ship to europe
and no longer in anything that remotely resembles a flashlight size
35 watt lights like the AI/Sam's ( around 3300 lux at 37.5 feet) and the big HarborFreight (between around 5500 and 7500 lux at 37.5 feet, depending on the focus of the particular light).

Thanks again for the calculations Ra, what formula did you use.
I would like to calculate fairly realistic CP numbers for the other lights I tested.

When I spoke with the Manufacturer about the Costo/HarborFreight's 30 MCP rating they said they could not give realistic numbers with Thors advertising 15MCP. So they had to make up a relative number that would express how much more powerfull their light was, or people would not buy it.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## That_Guy (Sep 18, 2007)

mtbkndad,

I calculated the cp numbers for all your lights in this post.

You may be interested in this thread.


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## mtbkndad (Sep 18, 2007)

That_Guy said:


> mtbkndad,
> 
> I calculated the cp numbers for all your lights in this post.
> 
> You may be interested in this thread.



Thank you for the links, I forgot you posted those in the N30 announcement thread. Actaully I was more concerned with answering questions the looking at the post in detail. In the future it would be good if you read posts properly before you make eroneous statements about other CPF members posts. I will deal with this in the thread you mis referenced me in later this tonight.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## That_Guy (Sep 18, 2007)

As far as I know I haven't misread any posts, and I didn't intend to mis reference you. I think I've found the line in my post you're talking about. I've edited it to try and make it more clear. When I said "then mtbkndad..." I didn't mean to say you were one of (or the) bumbling poster(s). I meant to say there were some useless posts, which was followed by a useful post from mtbkndad. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you in any way.


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## daveman (Sep 18, 2007)

The N30 is a great buy, small, bright, long runtime, affordable. What more can anybody ask for?


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## mtbkndad (Sep 19, 2007)

That_Guy said:


> As far as I know I haven't misread any posts, and I didn't intend to mis reference you. I think I've found the line in my post you're talking about. I've edited it to try and make it more clear. When I said "then mtbkndad..." I didn't mean to say you were one of (or the) bumbling poster(s). I meant to say there were some useless posts, which was followed by a useful post from mtbkndad. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you in any way.



Thank you for editing the post. It makes more sense now.
I also appologize if I seem a little hypersensitive.

I really like what you are doing in trying to get CP more readily understood and used. I put and extended reply to your reply in the other post that more accurately details what I was taking issue with and also explains what I like most about what you are doing.

markone, 

The upshot of all of this is that if you want to see well at 300 yards, you will need a spotlight and not a HID flashlight. If you have good eyes to begin with, and there is no other competing light, the N30 may do the trick. If not, and if you want to keep to a small form factor, be prepared to spend some money for a Polarion product. I believe all of their lights will do what you want. I know the Helios and X1 will, but have not had a chance to test their newest light. If size is not an issue the XeRay 50 watt will work nicely. If you are on a real tight budget and want more throw then the N30 get the Amondotech Illuminator.
If size really does not matter at all get the HarborFreight 30 MCP light.
If size does matter and your budjet is not super tight, get two N30's and use them together.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## markone (Sep 21, 2007)

mtbkndad said:


> markone,
> 
> -snip
> 
> ...



Well, first of all, thanks to everyone posted in this 3ad :wave:

I found the theoretical computation of the minimum lux amount on target really interesting as well as your real life HID experiences.

As many told, playing with my MRV led flashlight i saw great differences in maximum throw distance depending on target colour; of course white target was seen much more easily than darker ones, as forest edge on the night.

Some days ago i ordered on Ebay the following HID spotlight : 

*"P**ower On Board Model #SLH100P"*

the only one available with decent shipping solution to Italy.

I do not precisely know how is this SpotLight called under CPF and how good is it, but i think that is a good start for the money, at least here in Europe (130USD shipped).

Now the parcel is just came out the local customs and it is matter of days to get it, at least i hope 

Talking about HID Flashlights available here in Europe in regular ways, i found out Wolf Eyes and Microfire, but they are quite expensive (Shark I and K2000R around 400 Euro aka 560 USD).
The Shark I is the more interesting due to its beam angle range and 2 levels selectable output (10-24W).

But before to procede with further buying, i want to see how HID performs with the incoming *SLH100P
*
Do you have any hints about its usage ?

Regards, Marco.


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## Scott Packard (Sep 22, 2007)

On CPF the Power On Board #SLH100P is frequently referred to as the Sam's Club HID. You'll find a lot of talk on it.


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## markone (Sep 22, 2007)

Scott Packard said:


> On CPF the Power On Board #SLH100P is frequently referred to as the Sam's Club HID. You'll find a lot of talk on it.



Hi Scott,

i suspected that, but i was not sure.

Thanks, Marco.


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## mtbkndad (Sep 22, 2007)

markone said:


> But before to procede with further buying, i want to see how HID performs with the incoming *SLH100P
> *
> Do you have any hints about its usage ?
> 
> Regards, Marco.



Hi Marco,

If you look at the N30 announcement thread you will see beam shots of a light listed as "AmondoTech 6000K prototype (Sam’s)".

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/156617

That is what you are getting.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## markone (Sep 22, 2007)

mtbkndad said:


> Hi Marco,
> 
> If you look at the N30 announcement thread you will see beam shots of a light listed as "AmondoTech 6000K prototype (Sam’s)".
> 
> ...



Hi, spotlight arrived today, it works flawlessy 

Quickly tried few hours ago, with foggy river condition so i cannot report precise throw distance; i can say at least 200 meters.

At fifty meters is awesome !

I was expecting a very bluish beam with long turn-on delay but this light is better than expected.

If only i could have this performances in flashlight with MRV dimensions ....

OK, HID test succeeded, now i'm considering something like WE Shark I.

Regards, Marco.


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