# One EDC flashlight to rule them all.



## pol77 (Feb 12, 2019)

This has been coming for a while... 

I was always fascinated with quality items. And I always thought flashlights were a necessity, so it was only a matter of time for the combination to get into my mind.

I started with a few JetBeams and Olights, which are excellent for the price point, and recently acquired the Mechtorch and the FidgetHQ Aonic.

What I am now after, is the one, ultimate EDC flashlight, or as close to it as there is.

So why not ask the experts? Here goes:

I want the build quality / beam quality / looks/ attention to detail of the McGizmo Haiku.
I want at 500lm minimum.
I want high CRI and neutral color temperature.
I want a pocketable size, so definitely smaller than the Haiku. I would say the size of the Mechtorch is the absolute maximum.
I want titanium.

So, is there a flashlight that ticks all the boxes out there? I need to know how much I need to start saving up for...


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## archimedes (Feb 12, 2019)

The thing is, there are _always_ trade-offs.

The Tri-V is an amazing device, but one I have found to be somewhat delicate.

The BOSS is durable and powerful, but has a light engine dependent on a computer (more or less) to program, and I have found that to be a bit challenging at times (and would prefer a self-contained process, in any case)

The HDS is super-solid, but lacks ultra-high output.

You are already familiar with McGizmo, an excellent and balanced choice.

And on, and on. But those listed above may usefully start your search here ... :welcome:


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## ven (Feb 12, 2019)

If you like the haiku, send head to Tarik (Tana) for a tripLED(what’s your choice)and h17f driver.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Gizmo-lights-(Haiku-Mule)-and-modding-service

Other options, okluma dc1 ti(dark ti is super nice).
Hanko trident 
BOSS as archi mentioned, very cool light.

:welcome:


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## Thetasigma (Feb 12, 2019)

As Arch says, every design has trade-offs. My personal "ultimate" EDC would be the Coolfall Spy 005, the biggest trade-off is cost of course, but it is absolutely the single best made light I have seen or held, nothing else compares. Titanium check, 500+ lumens check, compact check (I carry mine in my jeans watch pocket/5th pocket), depending on your emitter choice it can be high CRI and neutral (I went 5D XP-L Hi for throw, output, and good CRI 84 typ.), and has IMO a better beam than the Haiku (I like the McR-18 better than the McR-17XP).
Actual carry I prefer to carry it with CR123s for longer runtime, while the max with them is 1A vs 3A with the 16340 IMRs, it can run constantly at 1A in hand and with the XP-L HI I choose still packs ~400 lumens and would require a meter to tell the difference from 500 lumens.










With more compromises, my other EDC torch is the Frelux Synergy with a SW35 R9080 219B I supplied, and is the black light on the left in the second photo. This light is considerably cheaper even for a custom, but retains excellent build quality and attention to detail. Very compact with an excellent ambidextrous clip or lanyard loop available, can be had in neutral high CRI stock (I supplied an even nicer emitter for mine), has a nice soft floody beam pattern, and it has excellent runtime off a pair of AAAs.
The compromises with the Synergy though, running on AAAs with a high CRI emitter it is about 120 lumens on high (though that is for an hour), it is solidly built but it is exquisitely well anodized aluminum and not titanium.


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## xevious (Feb 12, 2019)

Thetasigma said:


> As Arch says, every design has trade-offs. My personal "ultimate" EDC would be the Coolfall Spy 005, the biggest trade-off is cost of course, but it is absolutely the single best made light I have seen or held, nothing else compares. Titanium check, 500+ lumens check, compact check (I carry mine in my jeans watch pocket/5th pocket), depending on your emitter choice it can be high CRI and neutral (I went 5D XP-L Hi for throw, output, and good CRI 84 typ.), and has IMO a better beam than the Haiku (I like the McR-18 better than the McR-17XP).
> Actual carry I prefer to carry it with CR123s for longer runtime, while the max with them is 1A vs 3A with the 16340 IMRs, it can run constantly at 1A in hand and with the XP-L HI I choose still packs ~400 lumens and would require a meter to tell the difference from 500 lumens.
> 
> 
> ...


The biggest trade off is cost... you're not kidding to the max. The relative number of people who could afford these lights must be pretty small. I mean, I thought a Haiku was expensive. But nearly 4 times that? If the maker could figure out a way to cut down costs... but then, maybe they want an exclusive club of owners.


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## Thetasigma (Feb 12, 2019)

xevious said:


> The biggest trade off is cost... you're not kidding to the max. The relative number of people who could afford these lights must be pretty small. I mean, I thought a Haiku was expensive. But nearly 4 times that? If the maker could figure out a way to cut down costs... but then, maybe they want an exclusive club of owners.


The base 007 is ~$1400 which considering the small production numbers, custom parts, heavy time investment to produce and develop, local USA machined, and a design that emphasizes durability and quality over cost effective manufacture, is really what you'd expect. The last similar project I saw was a Chinese light in the format and based on the design would not have been as robust and tight fitting and it was ~$1000. The 005 at $2000 though is hard to justify since it is a very limited re-introduction while the 007 has been made continuously since 2007, but I like the design enough over the 007 that I bit the bullet and thoroughly enjoy it and have carried mine nearly every waking minute since receiving. 
As to lights in general I'd say the cut-off of diminishing returns for price is the $500-$600 range, above that is either speciality stuff like say a LeMax LX70 Superpower or necessarily expensive designs like the Spys, or stuff like the Hanko Trident or CWF Pele collabs where they are really functional art-form.

Honestly in the sub-$1000 range for a good reflector light the Haiku w/ a spare SuperLE from Tana is one of the best readily available lights around IMO, and personally is about as short as I can tolerate for a 1" diameter tube light. If you can make do with the short range of triple lights the BOSS in its 18350 form might suit your fancy but as mentioned they are programmed via video so need a computer or phone to change settings, but the driver is otherwise very versatile and with a 18650 and 18350 tube you can run 1x18650, 1x18350 or 2x18350 since the voltage range of the driver allows for 2S setup.


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## pol77 (Feb 12, 2019)

Thanks for the warm welcome guys!

An interesting selection of proposals, but nothing hits the spot yet.

The BOSS is very interesting and computer programmability (or mobile phone as I see it) is a plus for me as I am an I.T. professional, so it is quite familiar. But I think I am after a single emiter flashlight, with a nice beam profile, which I think the multi-emiter solutions simply lack.

I am starting to think that my dream flashlight would be something similar in size to the Olight S1R II Baton, if it was designed and made by Don, in titanium, with a Nichia emitter. 

Also, the Tri-V, not what I am after, but veeeeery cool! Plus, > $5000 is not in my budget!


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## archimedes (Feb 12, 2019)

pol77 said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome guys!
> 
> An interesting selection of proposals, but nothing hits the spot yet....
> 
> I am starting to think that my dream flashlight would be something similar in size to the Olight S1R II Baton, if it was designed and made by Don, in titanium, with a Nichia emitter....



This is about that size ...






But just to mention that some of your criteria are in (potential) conflict.

If you truly want tiny, and need 500+ lumens, and are set on titanium ... it will generate a lot of heat, that has to end up somewhere oo:
________

Totally not in the same class, or even similar category, but I am wondering if you might be interested in something more along the lines of the Emisar D4Ti ?


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## StarHalo (Feb 12, 2019)

pol77 said:


> And I always thought flashlights were a necessity
> 
> I want titanium.



What was the necessity of titanium again?


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## lunas (Feb 12, 2019)

i prefer customizable so the king of EDC light is a convoy s2 or c8 or Solarforce L2p style light you can toss a driver and led to fit your need in any of those lights I am going to be running if it ever arrives a xhp35 HD in my L2p host sportac drop in i might run a xhp35 in my thorfire c8s host. currently i am running a Xpl v6 in my l2p




StarHalo said:


> What was the necessity of titanium again?


 class feel ease of changing color test the waterproofing and electrically change the color by putting 30v into it for a deep blue color or strip the host and give her a flame job tends to yield a dark blue as well but can yield other colors.


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## Thetasigma (Feb 12, 2019)

I think we'd all appreciate having a Tri-V cost aside lol, but they are a bit delicate for EDC despite their awesomeness. 
There are a few titanium production lights around though not much currently new and none that I think hit the spot you are looking for but you can get an idea by searching through flashlights.parametrek.com with your desired parameters. 

As for other custom/high end lights that might suit you, there aren't many single emitters in titanium I can think of outside of McGizmo these days, and my work is longer than you'd like. I'm not a fan of Muyshondt but their Aeon Mk III S2 is available in titanium and could be of interest if you don't mind the CR2 battery and 200 lumen output, and they seem to be well liked. The Malihini has been made in a few reflector variants but they aren't any shorter than a Haiku, I have made conversions for Hanko Tridents but those are second hand at 007 prices and conversions aren't cheap, even at table price it ends up being nearly a grand. The DC1 could be converted to a single as well and those a bit more available. The other Muyshondt light that sorta falls into your parameters would be the Beagle but in stock form at its original price I have a hard time recommending it as the XP-L2 center emitter choice is poor, the clip is sharp and weak, and the lack of any recessed gripping surface makes it bulky for its length.

Back on production lights for a really short reflector light with high output and CR123/16340 the Foursevens Mini MK 2 Turbo (larger reflector head) was made in stainless and a pretty sweet light but it benefits from an emitter swap. The MK 3 is nicely improved in driver and emitter choice but only in black aluminum. The Mini MK 2 was made in Ti but it is an optic light, neither of the Mini MK 2 variants are readily available now either.


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## jon_slider (Feb 12, 2019)

Ti, but not 500 high cri lumens
https://www.hkequipment.net/product-p/zip20.htm

Darksucks Delta, has everything you asked for
https://darksucks.com/products/delta-flashlight-stone-washed-titanium

Niteye Eye10 TiC
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...EYE10-TIC-(Titanium-Carbon-Fiber)-In-Progress
You will need an emitter mod. Magnetic rotary is the one UI to rule them all. 





Jetbeam TCR-1, also Ti w magnetic rotary:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho...-flashlights&p=5237487&viewfull=1#post5237487
Also needs led mod


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## badtziscool (Feb 12, 2019)

A true demonstration of his character... Devin chimes in three times and doesn't mention any of his lights once, which I honestly think requires serious consideration. 

Sigma Customs Ti McRegulus on the left and 14500 Nova on the right. Both might be slightly longer than the Mectorch and Aonic, but I honestly think the single emitter reflector setup is a more versatile format than the multi-emitter optic format, and is well worth the additional length. The 14500 Nova uses a 14500 cell so although it's longer than what you'd like, the body is much more slender and really makes it more compact than it's length suggests. I think these lights should be considered because I think the reflector setup can provide more throw and reach longer distances, and though may not illuminate as well or as much in the near field as a multi-emitter setup, it can still do it adequately while providing the reach when needed. In a multi-emitter setup, to have any reach, your only option is to just put out more lumens. This, in turn, eats up more battery, which then requires you to carry a larger battery format for any decent runtime, and thus increasing the size of the light. In addition, the additional output is also placed in the near field, and so everything around you is lit up very brightly. So brightly that it washes out anything you may be concentrating on in the distance. So it's like a lose-lose situation. 















Pros:


Titanium
Build quality and detail that I believe is on par with a McGizmo
Neutral tint or hi-cri because Devin is a firm believer in using those types of emitters
Definitely over 500 lumens
Simple and purposeful design

Cons:


May be slightly longer than what you like.
Not mass produced (which could be a pro depending on your POV) so is somewhat hard to acquire.


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## lunas (Feb 12, 2019)

badtziscool said:


> A true demonstration of his character... Devin chimes in three times and doesn't mention any of his lights once, which I honestly think requires serious consideration.
> 
> Sigma Customs Ti McRegulus on the left and 14500 Nova on the right. Both might be slightly longer than the Mectorch and Aonic, but I honestly think the single emitter reflector setup is a more versatile format than the multi-emitter optic format, and is well worth the additional length. The 14500 Nova uses a 14500 cell so although it's longer than what you'd like, the body is much more slender and really makes it more compact than it's length suggests. I think these lights should be considered because I think the reflector setup can provide more throw and reach longer distances, and though may not illuminate as well or as much in the near field as a multi-emitter setup, it can still do it adequately while providing the reach when needed. In a multi-emitter setup, to have any reach, your only option is to just put out more lumens. This, in turn, eats up more battery, which then requires you to carry a larger battery format for any decent runtime, and thus increasing the size of the light. In addition, the additional output is also placed in the near field, and so everything around you is lit up very brightly. So brightly that it washes out anything you may be concentrating on in the distance. So it's like a lose-lose situation.
> 
> ...


very nice lights my only issue is to build on your con of the custom made to order on the subject of EDC i have a belief that one should carry nice things but things that wont kill your wallet if you are mugged, pick pocketed, or it outright falls out of your pocket and is lost I have seen stories of people losing $200-$300 benchmade knives they were carrying edc and they had the pocket clip snag on something and it slipped out who knows when. or that it was a cherished gift from a spouse or family that can't be replaced like an old knife passed to them from the dead grandfather.

And so my EDC consists of a pilot ball point pen a Solar force L2p host with a xpl 1300lm drop in 1 mode and a kershaw Kuro i can replace all 3 of my edc items for under 50$ with the most expensive one being the torch which i could replace for around 20-30$


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## RCS1300 (Feb 12, 2019)

I started with the Muyshondt aeon MK III. Used that for a few months and decided the HDS Systems, even though larger, was the best of the best edc flashlight.

This was mostly due to easy to program lumen levels, use of multiple power sources, high level of sophistication, and multiple safety features. No other light comes close.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Feb 12, 2019)

The Muyshondt Aeon MKIII satisfies your desire for titanium, compact size, high CRI, and neutral beam, but falls very short of 500 lumens... It actually is the closest to what you’re describing of lights I can think of.

Someone said Prometheus Delta. It satisfies all of your desires except for being smaller than the Haiku. It is similar in size to the Haiku.
If you don’t mind losing the long distance capability, there is the McGizmo mule, which can use all the same body options that the Haiku uses, but the head is significantly smaller, thus the entire light is much more compact overall. The beam on the mule will be basically perfect. No spots, no rings, no nothing. With the HIVE driver and the XPL HI emitter Don is currently offering, you’d be pretty close to 500 lumens, but still a little bit shy of 500...
Keep in mind a very compact light putting out 500+ lumens will have issues with heat dissipation, so the 500 lumen output will not last long before a step down in brightness. Also very compact size paired with 500 lumen output will result in very short run times.


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## Fireclaw18 (Feb 12, 2019)

Actually if what you are looking for is an Olight S1R-sized light in Titanium you could just get a titanium Olight S1. The light would have decent build quality, be titanium, have a good UI, be sized similarly to an Olight S1R, and would have over 500 lumen max output.

The biggest downside of course is such a light wouldn't have the elite "bling factor" and wouldn't be as tough as lights with thicker, more heavily built built sidewalls and potted electronics.


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## ven (Feb 12, 2019)

badtziscool said:


> A true demonstration of his character... Devin chimes in three times and doesn't mention any of his lights once, which I honestly think requires serious consideration.




An excellent point, his work looks amazing.........................and for me unfortunately, just looking from pictures. Otherwise i would love to comment further and chuck some pics of his lights up. Defo worthy of consideration, beautiful light pieces!


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## ven (Feb 12, 2019)

Couple of my fav small 16340 lights, the E1e tana triple and haiku triple


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## Nichia! (Feb 12, 2019)

If you can forget about nichia and Titanium then you need to look at Zebralight they are killer lights and they offer Hi CRI now but not nichia...


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## Nichia! (Feb 12, 2019)

I think l found what you looking for 

The Egaletac d25c Titanium with nichia 219b 2015 Edition is one of best looking lights and it has one of the best beam shapes ever.. And it has world best Tint Ever made. It is simply gorgeous..


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## jon_slider (Feb 12, 2019)

pol77 said:


> This has been coming for a while...



sent you a Private Message...


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## marinemaster (Feb 12, 2019)

I second Zebralight and Malkoff
At the end of the day reliability is the most important
The photons coming out of the led have no consciousness what the flashlight looks like


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## euroken (Feb 12, 2019)

I've been switching off between the two below. Not titanium but with McClicky upgrade, simple UI, rugged design, swappable drop ins for output and tint for your needs, I say it's pretty close to perfect...The problem with one EDC flashlight to rule them all is that a single package could easily become obsolete with new output, tints, or UI's...Just my two cents...


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## Climb14er (Feb 13, 2019)

Very nice lights in this thread! With lights becoming more powerful, better quality and higher tech each year, there's no reason for me to sink a lot of money in a light. My last bought light which is my favorite is a Zebralight SC62cw. Small, lightweight, totally reliable, great beam pattern, takes both protected and unprotected 18650's. For the small amount I paid for the light and the quality of the build and design of the light, the SC62cw does everything I need it to do.


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## marinemaster (Feb 13, 2019)

Plus 1 [emoji1303]


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## marinemaster (Feb 13, 2019)

Climb14er said:


> Very nice lights in this thread! With lights becoming more powerful, better quality and higher tech each year, there's no reason for me to sink a lot of money in a light. My last bought light which is my favorite is a Zebralight SC62cw. Small, lightweight, totally reliable, great beam pattern, takes both protected and unprotected 18650's. For the small amount I paid for the light and the quality of the build and design of the light, the SC62cw does everything I need it to do.



Agree 100%


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## pol77 (Feb 14, 2019)

So many excellent suggestions! Thank you all!

I am going through the suggestions and looking for something that will tickle my fancy... 

I am actually thinking about a modded McGizmo Haiku. I have never modded a flashlight but I have professional experience with electronics and soldering and I have modded PC cases, so the building blocks are there. If only the Haiku was smaller...

I think this journey will take a while.


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## pol77 (Feb 14, 2019)

Fireclaw18 said:


> Actually if what you are looking for is an Olight S1R-sized light in Titanium you could just get a titanium Olight S1. The light would have decent build quality, be titanium, have a good UI, be sized similarly to an Olight S1R, and would have over 500 lumen max output.
> 
> The biggest downside of course is such a light wouldn't have the elite "bling factor" and wouldn't be as tough as lights with thicker, more heavily built built sidewalls and potted electronics.



I already have 2 titanium S1R II Baton lights, the Summer and Winter limited edition versions. The are very nice for their price point but what I am after is exactly what you are describing, plus I do not enjoy the low CRI and offered tints.


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## Fireclaw18 (Feb 14, 2019)

pol77 said:


> I already have 2 titanium S1R II Baton lights, the Summer and Winter limited edition versions. The are very nice for their price point but what I am after is exactly what you are describing, plus I do not enjoy the low CRI and offered tints.



The tints and CRI can be fixed with a little modding. It shouldn't be hard to swap emitters to something more to your liking. And if you don't want to mod it yourself you could always hire someone like Vinh to do it.

However, modding an inexpensive light definitely won't give you the feeling of having an "elite bling light".


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## Keitho (Feb 14, 2019)

The Emisar D4 Ti could be worth a look, esp in the 18350 size. With the amazing cells in that size available now, this one is a real "show off" piece in copper/Ti, and it really vomits the lumens for a few seconds. On lower levels, light enough to hold in your mouth, and small enough to disappear in the bottom of any pocket. Compared to other Ti, very low cost. Actually, the price is shockingly low to me. And, there are many LED choices and color choices.

But, not really a comparable premium feel to the other Ti lights in this thread. Good, but not hundreds- or thousands of dollars worth of good. Reliability is probably a step below what I would want for a duty light, but good enough for almost anything I do in the 'burbs, especially since I almost always have more than 2 lights on me. 

Keep us posted on your search!


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## pol77 (Feb 15, 2019)

Fireclaw18 said:


> The tints and CRI can be fixed with a little modding. It shouldn't be hard to swap emitters to something more to your liking. And if you don't want to mod it yourself you could always hire someone like Vinh to do it.
> 
> However, modding an inexpensive light definitely won't give you the feeling of having an "elite bling light".



You are quite right. Modding an Olight may make it better but it will not make it premium. Also, Olight front bezels and button bezels are press fit, and I there is a very high possibility the finish will be damaged and / or the fit of the bezels after reassembly will not be perfect (cosmetically and for IPX rating), as they are not made to be removed and reinstalled.

I can do the soldering etc quite easily, but I would rather have a flashlight you can open by unscrewing something.


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## pol77 (Feb 15, 2019)

Keitho said:


> The Emisar D4 Ti could be worth a look, esp in the 18350 size. With the amazing cells in that size available now, this one is a real "show off" piece in copper/Ti, and it really vomits the lumens for a few seconds. On lower levels, light enough to hold in your mouth, and small enough to disappear in the bottom of any pocket. Compared to other Ti, very low cost. Actually, the price is shockingly low to me. And, there are many LED choices and color choices.
> 
> But, not really a comparable premium feel to the other Ti lights in this thread. Good, but not hundreds- or thousands of dollars worth of good. Reliability is probably a step below what I would want for a duty light, but good enough for almost anything I do in the 'burbs, especially since I almost always have more than 2 lights on me.
> 
> Keep us posted on your search!



Hi and thanks for the suggestion. The light seems OK, but I do not see it as a premium light. Also, the copper is a deal breaker for me. It is either Titanium or Copper, but not a mixture of both, for me.

It made me think though. There are options for Nichia 219C 5000K 90 CRI and SST-20 95CRI in various titns. I am not familiar with the SST-20 line. Are they any good (for a neutral tint - high CRI freak)?


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## Thetasigma (Feb 15, 2019)

pol77 said:


> Hi and thanks for the suggestion. The light seems OK, but I do not see it as a premium light. Also, the copper is a deal breaker for me. It is either Titanium or Copper, but not a mixture of both, for me.
> 
> It made me think though. There are options for Nichia 219C 5000K 90 CRI and SST-20 95CRI in various titns. I am not familiar with the SST-20 line. Are they any good (for a neutral tint - high CRI freak)?



The SST-20 line is as throwy or better than an XP-L HI of a similar CCT, as for CRI the 3000K-4000K range are high CRI and are nicer than a 219C, but not quite R9080 219B nice. Tints are usually clean and pleasant, especially if you can get ones binned below BBL.


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## Fireclaw18 (Feb 15, 2019)

Thetasigma said:


> The SST-20 line is as throwy or better than an XP-L HI of a similar CCT, as for CRI the 3000K-4000K range are high CRI and are nicer than a 219C, but not quite R9080 219B nice. Tints are usually clean and pleasant, especially if you can get ones binned below BBL.



From what I read on BLF pretty much all the SST20 that anyone has been able to obtain are above the black body line. You get a nice throwy 95 CRI beam that really brings out the red... but unfortunately everything has a greenish tint.


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## jon_slider (Feb 15, 2019)

This is a Titanium light with magnetic rotary.. imo it is among the best of the best, but I would still swap the LED to N219b 4500k 9080. And it can only be found on the used market, there is no current production:


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## jon_slider (Feb 15, 2019)

Now one of the realities about magnetic rotaries. They drift. The brightness changes by itself, by as much as 50%, after I let go of the dial..

here is an example, of a magnetic rotary in the same family as the RRT-01, called a Niteye Eye10. This is a stock light, no LED mods.
Note how the numbers on the light meter change when Im NOT touching the light:


and here is an example of a mechanical rotary, that does not drift. Note that the numbers on the meter do NOT Drift, when Im not touching the light.. This is what real regulation looks like:


Magnetic rotaries are very cool, but, dont put them on a light meter if you dont want to know whether they are regulated.. cause they are NOT.

ps, turn your volume down when you watch those videos.. there is no soundtrack, just cars driving by on a rainy day, and my cat telling me its time for dinner.. ;-)


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## GMUGNIER (Feb 15, 2019)

jon_slider said:


> This is a Titanium light with magnetic rotary.. imo it is among the best of the best, but I would still swap the LED to N219b 4500k 9080. And it can only be found on the used market, there is no current production:





You might want to do some research prior to swapping the emitter - This light has a mag control and changing the led may render it completely useless. There are several threads on this exact subject here on CPF..


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## pol77 (Feb 16, 2019)

Thanks guys. It looks like it would be better to get something with a mechanical rotary then, both for reliability and ease of emitter change, as this is something I want to do...


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## thenikjones (Feb 16, 2019)

Mechanical rotary is in the Cool Fall SPY? That has my favourite UI hands-down. 

If you can afford one then they are certainly lovely, but you’ll likely still want something else if you keep looking at CPF. In the same vein, if you buy a nice watch, keep away from watch forums as there is always something else to catch your eye. 

My current EDC is an Oveready e series head on a SF body (or McGizmo battery tube) but the SPY still has my heart.


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## jon_slider (Feb 16, 2019)

GMUGNIER said:


> You might want to do some research prior to swapping the emitter - This light has a mag control and changing the led may render it completely useless. There are several threads on this exact subject here on CPF..



I started the threads you refer to. But I often disagree with my younger self.
I now carry an RRT-01 modded to 4500k N219b.

what I have discovered, is that I intuitively offset the lumen drift, by dialing the dial up and down in small increments to obtain my "just right" illumination

In fact, last night I did a test with my HDS and RRT-01. I shined each across my dark living room, to illuminate a painting to my visually "enough to see" but not too much to drain the battery too fast.

To my surprise, and gratification, I was able to set both lights to within ONE lumen of each other. Because I set them on my light meter, AFTER I had dialed to the illumination I found pleasant.

Even more suprising, and gratifying, my RRT-01 was holding very steady, by the time I put it on the light meter...

soooo... false alarm, there is not really a problem with the 50% change in brightness that my magnetic rotary CAN exhibit, both before and AFTER an LED swap. Because I intuitively dial up and then down a little, which clips the excessive drift to make the light a total Joy to Use

So, I renew my recommendation of Magnetic Rotaries, modified to whatever LED pleases the user.

And, a Ti Magnetic Rotary, when they can be found, cost less than a brand new Aluminum HDS.

Of course, if money is no object, and a max of 200 high CRI lumens from a small hotspot is sufficient, then HDS now offers a Titanium Rotary! That IS Bling! And it is even possible to get one with my dream LED, the 219b 4500k 9080.

Now about those 200 HDS lumens.. because they are focused into a tight small hotspot, they are potentially as bright as 800 lumens from a diffused triple.

So now, we have a problem, how to justify NOT buying an HDS Titanium Rotary.. When a Titanium Magnetic rotary is in actual use as good or better, in terms of ease of use, CRI, and EDC utility.

And then there is the pocket clip issue to consider. HDS Rotaries do not have a good Bezel down pocket clip option imo. There is a way to put a clip under the bezel.. but it is not factory approved. By contrast, the magnetic rotaries have very nice clips, and they are deeper carry than any standard HDS clip, with the exception of the Fugly Universal Clip, that I wont even consider.

After all that, I renew my recommendation to the OP, to try to locate a Ti Magnetic Rotary, and mod the LED to High CRI. The specific Ti magnetic rotaries to be on the hunt for are Jetbeam TCR-1, Niteye Eye 10 TiC. These are 18350 friendly. If 16340 is sufficient, then the Sunwayman V10R Ti is a candidate.

Good luck with the shopping!


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## TyTEK (Feb 16, 2019)

I'm going to put in another plug for the Haiku + Tana dropin. I had Tana do a couple TripLED conversions (which I love!) but I also picked up one of his SuperLE's (single emitter) with a 219c @ 4000K. This is an awesome combo! Nice, hi CRI plus it's running the H17F which is my favorite light engine. I'm not sure what the actual max lumens is, but it's gotta be at least 500 (with the 219c). And for those not really inclined to have to do a lot of work modding, it's as simple as shooting Don an email for a Haiku body with no light engine, and hitting up Tana for a SuperLE. Once you get both in the mail, simply screw in the SuperLE to the Haiku head. You can also try a McGizmo Mule or Sundrop if the Haiku is too long. I've tried the SuperLE in my Sundrop and it's awesome. The only downside, for me, is that I can't run 18350s in them. For that I have a few Oveready BOSS 35s. The beam pattern of the BOSS with the standard optic is actually really nice if you're worried about that. Good for up close with a bit of reach to it when needed.


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## jon_slider (Feb 16, 2019)

TyTEK said:


> H17F which is my favorite light engine
> ...
> Sundrop



great suggestions!

I dont think the OP is ready for the Aspheric Sundrop beam, but I want one 
I have not tried the H17f, but a friend loves his, and Ive heard others say the same.

Tana may even have some of my grail LEDs, the N219b 4500k 9080


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## pol77 (Feb 16, 2019)

So many things to think about! 

I have found a source for getting Nichia 219b 4500K 9080 emitters. I can get them in batches of 7 and will cost me 7.44 GBP each. I am thinking of getting a batch of 7, or two, so I can mod whatever I decide to get in the future (plus my 2 tripple emitters).

If anyone can suggest a cheaper / easier way to get these emitters, please feel free!

With all your help, I am leaning towards finding a light, shorter than the haiku, of similar quality, made of titanium, with an RCR123 or an 18350 battery. A magnetic rotary would be nice. The EYE10 looks great and I can easily mod it with the 219b, but I will have to look second hand and the carbon fibre is a big turn off. The Jetbeam is beautiful! 

Not in a hurry though... I can wait and see what comes out in the next few months.


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## Lithium466 (Feb 17, 2019)

Would you share your source ?


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## pol77 (Feb 18, 2019)

Lithium466 said:


> Would you share your source ?



Of course. I ordered a couple of these: https://www.banggood.com/Fireflies-...rmmds=myorder&ID=55850441195&cur_warehouse=CN

and plan to remove the emitters to use for mods. Use the coupon code LBWWH

It seems that there are other options now, though. I will try to get some of these and keep the firefiles: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?455954-WTB-Nichia-219b-sw40k-R9080-4000K-LEDs&p=5285310&highlight=#post5285310


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## Lithium466 (Feb 18, 2019)

Thanks, that's what I was thinking !


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## Tixx (Feb 20, 2019)

Thetasigma said:


> As Arch says, every design has trade-offs. My personal "ultimate" EDC would be the Coolfall Spy 005, the biggest trade-off is cost of course, but it is absolutely the single best made light I have seen or held, nothing else compares. Titanium check, 500+ lumens check, compact check (I carry mine in my jeans watch pocket/5th pocket), depending on your emitter choice it can be high CRI and neutral (I went 5D XP-L Hi for throw, output, and good CRI 84 typ.), and has IMO a better beam than the Haiku (I like the McR-18 better than the McR-17XP).
> Actual carry I prefer to carry it with CR123s for longer runtime, while the max with them is 1A vs 3A with the 16340 IMRs, it can run constantly at 1A in hand and with the XP-L HI I choose still packs ~400 lumens and would require a meter to tell the difference from 500 lumens.
> 
> 
> ...



The Spy is so often photographed alone or with other Spy lights, that I didn't realize the size and how small they were. I Have a Frelux in hand and had no idea it was that close. Kept me away from them for a decade. Hmmmm....


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## Thetasigma (Feb 20, 2019)

Tixx said:


> The Spy is so often photographed alone or with other Spy lights, that I didn't realize the size and how small they were. I Have a Frelux in hand and had no idea it was that close. Kept me away from them for a decade. Hmmmm....



Yeah, I was shocked the first time I got hold of a 007 and 005 how small they really are. The Spy is more substantial in size than the Synergy, but not a whole lot considering the cell size difference. I do carry my 005 in my watch pocket/5th pocket of my jeans quite nicely.


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## mckeand13 (Feb 20, 2019)

Common to the bicycle industry, Keith Bontrager apparently coined the phrase "Strong, Light, Cheap - Pick two". That holds true for all products, just insert the correct terms.

For flashlights, maybe something like "Bright, Small, Cheap - Pick two".


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## InvisibleFrodo (Feb 20, 2019)

mckeand13 said:


> Common to the bicycle industry, Keith Bontrager apparently coined the phrase "Strong, Light, Cheap - Pick two". That holds true for all products, just insert the correct terms.
> 
> For flashlights, maybe something like "Bright, Small, Cheap - Pick two".



It’s high output, compact size, long runtime. Pick 2.

Cost can’t circumvent the laws of physics. It can be bright, small, and cheap. Those things can all come in the same light. The run time will be poor or involve substantial step down in brightness. And just because it’s bright doesn’t mean high quality light. (I’m looking at you, XM-L2)
Small, bright, cheap: O-light.


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## euroken (Feb 20, 2019)

I think it's all relative. What is a bright light for one person may or may not be for another. BOSS as an example, is a bright light at 3000+ lumens but if you reduce the output to a very bright for its compact size, say 300 lumens, we're talking a long run time. Even a 100 lumens for a closeup work is a squinter. But then, what is a very long run time and for what use? 

I personally think quantitative measurement of lumens really is a bad indicator for "one EDC to rule them all."


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## InvisibleFrodo (Feb 21, 2019)

euroken said:


> I think it's all relative. What is a bright light for one person may or may not be for another. BOSS as an example, is a bright light at 3000+ lumens but if you reduce the output to a very bright for its compact size, say 300 lumens, we're talking a long run time. Even a 100 lumens for a closeup work is a squinter. But then, what is a very long run time and for what use?
> 
> I personally think quantitative measurement of lumens really is a bad indicator for "one EDC to rule them all."



Let’s use your BOSS as our example. Is it a BOSS 35 or 70? The BOSS has the high output of you want it, but if you want it more compact (the 35) you will be sacrificing more than half of your run time at any given brightness setting. If you want longer run time, you will have to sacrifice some of that compact size and move up to a BOSS 70.

To Summarize BOSS 35 is high output, compact size
BOSS 70 is high output, long run time.

Yes, these are relative terms, and in this case I’m comparing a BOSS 35 to a BOSS 70. At a given output setting the BOSS 35 will have short run time relative to a BOSS 70. And the BOSS 35 is compact relative to the BOSS 70.


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## euroken (Feb 21, 2019)

I think we’re saying the same thing? 35 may feel too small for some for their practical need and the user still might set the brightness to be less than 35s max output. Just saying the term ‘bright’ could mean more than the light is bright’er’ than another light.


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## ven (Feb 21, 2019)

The 70 is pretty small for an 18650 light, and gives you the option for 3500 ish lumens(2x18350). Which you cant have in 35 form(around 1700 HI or 1200 iirc for the nichia).

Its nice to be able to use 300-600lm without worrying the voltage is getting low after 10 mins use!


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## bykfixer (Feb 21, 2019)

Anything else is a luxury item.


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## NH Lumens (Feb 24, 2019)

archimedes said:


> The thing is, there are _always_ trade-offs.



^^^THIS^^^

What is the primary purpose of _your_ EDC light?

For me, there are essentially two;


General-purpose utility light, for both indoors and out
For defensive use, with or without a firearm
The general-purpose light that is in my pocket at all times is a Malkoff. It consists of a VME head with a UCL glass lens, a M61NLL (60 lumens) drop-in and a MDC 1CR123 shrouded body. I find 60 lumens perfect for indoor use and adequate for outdoor navigation. The body and head are smooth and don't tear up my pocket, and the recessed clicky has never been unintentionally activated riding in my pocket. Using a protected 16340 700mAh cell, it will easily run for over five hours. Of course, the quality and reliability of the light are top-tier, as is the ability to replace switches, use different drop-ins, etc. 






For defensive use I need different traits: a simple but reliable UI, maximum output and easy access to the tailcap switch. I prefer a 2-CR123 (16650) length body for a firmer hold of the light. Runtime is less of a concern. My favorite light for this role is a Malkoff Bodyguard v.2 head (1,000 lumens) and Malkoff E-series tailcap on a Surefire Lumamax body. Especially for this role, a simple UI and having the light activate on maximum output _every time_ and _without fail_ are mandatory. For that reason, "programmable" lights and those with multiple switches are a non-starter for me.


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## Modernflame (Feb 24, 2019)

NH Lumens said:


> ... a simple UI and having the light activate on maximum output _every time_ and _without fail_ are mandatory. For that reason, "programmable" lights and those with multiple switches are a non-starter for me.



In your estimation, why is the bodyguard better for this role than, say, the E2 Super?


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## NH Lumens (Feb 24, 2019)

Modernflame said:


> In your estimation, why is the bodyguard better for this role than, say, the E2 Super?



In the training I've received for low-light defensive using a firearm, _control of the light is critical_. The light is typically used in short bursts, with movement between those bursts. Controlling the light and dominating the assailant with it is critically important in low-light encounters, but if not used properly a light left on becomes a fist (or knife, or bullet, or bottle) magnet.

For a defensive light when the button is pushed, it must activate at maximum output _without fail._ When the button is released, it must turn off _without fail_. In the stress of using the light in a defensive scenario, it's not difficult to inadvertently push the switch too far and lock it on. For this reason, I have modified the McClicky in my Bodyguard v.1 to be momentary only. So far that has worked out well for the light's intended use. 

To your question;

The 10 seconds the Bodyguard remains in high output is perfectly adequate for this purpose. I think the E2 Super would also be perfect, but the BG head gives the ability to run the light at reduced output for longer periods of time, should that be needed. I would certainly be fine with either.


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## Modernflame (Feb 24, 2019)

Ah, yes. I remember when you did that mod. Good stuff! Thanks for the feedback.


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## jon_slider (Feb 26, 2019)

for the OP, interested in ti to rule them all.. some visuals from this old thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?379750-Some-titanium-flashlights-for-sale



Silgt said:


> I have some titanium lights for sale
> 
> 1) McGizmo Ti PD-S -- original, mint condition. Never carried -- _now_ *$650.00 *SPF
> 
> ...



personally, I think Gold plate over aluminum would be cool, less heavy, more Oligodynamic

I also like Copper Plate, and Brass Plate:


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## pol77 (Feb 27, 2019)

What beauties!


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## jon_slider (Feb 27, 2019)

yes, fun Gizmos
for your stated beam goals, the Haiku is probably the one

but just to show a couple other beam types, an Aspheric and a Mule..

here is imo a very informative video about the Sundrop beam benefits, contrasted to the merits of a beam with a hotspot for different applications


and one about a mule w AA body


the AA arguably pocket carries more easily, is less bulky, than a CR123, which although shorter, is fatter

there is still a bunch of info to be sorted about which light engine to pair with which Head, with which battery type.. 

good luck with your search
I hope you share your impressions of whatever you end up getting


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## jon_slider (Apr 11, 2019)

*to Glow or not to Glow*

My new Ti Rotary Jetbeam TCR-1 w N219b 4500k 9080, mod by CRX:




which outfit do you like better?


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## pol77 (Apr 12, 2019)

jon_slider, that is a very good answer to my original question. If only I could get my hands on one of these... If you see any for sale, please ping me a link!


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## Modernflame (Apr 12, 2019)

Should I stay or should I glow?


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## RCS1300 (Apr 12, 2019)

pol77 said:


> What I am now after, is the one, ultimate EDC flashlight, or as close to it as there is.
> 
> So why not ask the experts? Here goes:
> 
> ...



With more experience, you will realize a few additional things are important:

1. no need for 500 lumens in a pocket EDC flashlight
2. runtime is preferred over lumens
3. ability to program a choice of multiple lumen levels, including moonlight, and sequence
4. use of primary and rechargeable batteries 
5. ergonomics 
6. lifetime warranty important
7. quality and dependability

Answer: HDS - 16 Ti Rotarys ($1,230 plus $15 shipping) are coming up for sale on April 29th and I predict they will sell out in less than 20 minutes.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Apr 12, 2019)

RCS1300 said:


> With more experience, you will realize a few additional things are important:
> 
> 1. no need for 500 lumens in a pocket EDC flashlight



Only for around-the-house and casual use outdoors. Otherwise, I have found having over 1000 lumens to be extremely useful outdoors, for limited use. Especially with a bit of throw, like on the Zebralight SC600w HI. While it's true that I'm using less than 100 lumens over 95% of the time, having a good max output is very useful for spotting stuff at moderate distance.



> 2. runtime is preferred over lumens
> 3. ability to program a choice of multiple lumen levels, including moonlight, and sequence



Agreed.



> 4. use of primary and rechargeable batteries



Disagree, unless there is a very specific need, such as operation at -40 degrees or extreme long-term storage. Otherwise, rechargeable is the only way to go. Primaries are a total waste.



> 5. ergonomics



Yup.



> 6. lifetime warranty important
> 7. quality and dependability



Nope, only #7 is important. Lifetime warranties are only good for the "lifetime of the company". See 4sevens as an example. Besides, there's is the expense and hassle of shipping, and you're without a light for potentially months. No, thanks. Just give me a great 30-day return policy, and I'm happy. Anything extra, and I probably won't use it anyway.



> Answer: HDS - 16 Ti Rotarys ($1,230 plus $15 shipping) are coming up for sale on April 29th and I predict they will sell out in less than 20 minutes.



Okay, you forgot:

8. Break your bank account.

But. more seriously,

9. Small size and weight. There's no point in having a great light if it's too big and clunky to comfortably EDC. I've found that any 18650 light larger than my Zebralights or a DQG tiny light, is too big to EDC. Otherwise, stick with AA or AAA. I've got tons of 18650 lights, and they all sit on a shelf for use just around the house.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Apr 12, 2019)

Actually 47s warranty isn’t totally dead. Jason at Prometheus lights is still providing a level of coverage even though he didn’t own the company at the time.


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## Modernflame (Apr 13, 2019)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> 9. Small size and weight. There's no point in having a great light if it's too big and clunky to comfortably EDC.



Thank you for your post. All of your points are valid. I would only suggest that this last bit is subjective. I have relatively large hands and I never claimed to be graceful. For me, anything smaller than a 1CR123 HDS is in butter finger territory. I need all of the surface area of the HDS in order to wield the flashlight. Tiny lights just don't work for me unless they are on a necklace. YMMV and all of that jazz.


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## bignc (Apr 13, 2019)

Agree with Modern. My hands are enormous, apparently so overall length has to be JUST right. Also, I would add ruggedness to #7. Definitely owned some dependable lights that weren't rugged enough!


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## jon_slider (Oct 12, 2019)

juplin said:


>





fyrstormer said:


> … this may be the most durable light design ever created -- …
> It's made of a strong metal with no surface coating to chip off, and all of the electrical parts are non-moving. There is no clicky-switch to wear out, the threads are not used as part of the twisty-switch mechanism, and the brightness control operates by way of a contactless magnetic sensor. No matter how much the moving parts wear down, they won't stop working, and there are no small parts to break. Even if the spring-loaded-ball that provides friction for the ring were to wear down completely and fall out, the magnetic sensor that senses the position of the ring would continue to work. This light could very well last for decades of daily use.


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## nightshade (Oct 13, 2019)

Love the RRT design, rugged but its got weak spots too. My first failure was back when I was working. I was surrounded by gypsum and drywall crews, by day 4 of looking into recently floated walls, gypsum dust froze the ring. The grease was ruined and ball had partially corroded. 
I repaired another from a friend who is a decorative metal artist. Hers had absorbed too much direct heat and too many drops, rendering one ring magnet useless. I wont take my magnetic ring lights into the saltwater I love to fish in anymore. The saltwater wrecks havok on every aspect of the ring, in short order. Great lights, I'm keeping mine, but like everything ,YMMV.


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## jon_slider (Oct 13, 2019)

nightshade said:


> ... gypsum dust froze the ring. The grease was ruined and ball had partially corroded. ... saltwater wreaks havoc on every aspect of the ring



good warnings.. 



Archibald Tuttle said:


> Great lights, just keep them out of salt water, and sheetrock dust or other fine particulate such as beach sand or crushed coral. It will bind them up, big time. The ring grease allows the salt water to sit and do nasty things to the detent ball and spring.



moral of the story
dont take your titanium rotary diving nor drywalling.. dont bury it in the sand, and dont use it under muddy water either


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## LedTed (Oct 13, 2019)

Even with all the quality and procurement problems, the LuminTop FWXX, with its greatly diverse UI and various emitter choices - has the potential to be “the one”. They just need to keep from cheeping out, add a little robustness, and actually be obtainable.


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## jon_slider (Oct 13, 2019)

LedTed said:


> obtainable.



I PM'd you a link


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## boo5ted (Oct 13, 2019)

jon_slider said:


> I PM'd you a link



That a good looking second pic ya got there but I prefer this one.


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## ironhorse (Oct 13, 2019)

boo5ted, what is the last light in your post? The one with the metal button.


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## Lateck (Oct 14, 2019)

All "The Boxes" the OP and many here say are different for each person. There are a great many lights listed and I am sure they all meet the needs of their owners. I care an OLight Baton 1 in my pocket daily. It meets my needs. 
But, any light is good, as long as it is on you when you need it.


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## jon_slider (Oct 14, 2019)

ironhorse said:


> boo5ted, what is the last light in your post? The one with the metal button.



thats the Titanium version of the Lumintop FW3 (FW3T)
click for a review
It uses the Anduril electronic ramping UI, which includes low voltage protection thermal protection, and many other features.



Lateck said:


> All "The Boxes" ... are different



I agree
I have different lights for different boxes 

eg
A Titanium clicky rules for drywalling
A Titanium Rotary rules for the office


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## boo5ted (Oct 14, 2019)

ironhorse said:


> boo5ted, what is the last light in your post? The one with the metal button.




What Jon said, awesome little light.


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## jon_slider (Oct 16, 2019)

boo5ted said:


> What Jon said, awesome little light.



about the size of an HDS with 5x the battery capacity

The FW3T is 3.64” long, uses an 18650, and costs <$100
a Ti HDS is 3.7” long, uses 16340, and costs >$1,000



Modernflame said:


> I have relatively large hands





bignc said:


> My hands are enormous



some people like to use the AA extension on the sunwayman V11r and V10r.. it lets them use 14500, which has more capacity than 16340






here you can see the Titanium AA adpter:


KuanR said:


>



these sunwayman lights have lower lows and higher highs than HDS lights, and the magnetic rotary dials are smooth ramping, not the 24 hops an HDS uses..

V10r/V11r w AA extension is about 1/4” longer than an HDS





without the extension the V10r/V11r is about 3/8” shorter than an HDS


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## jon_slider (Jul 8, 2020)

w NW XM-L:





now w sw45k:


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## 1313 (Jul 8, 2020)

FW3A or Zebralight SC64c LE with the samsung led.... could go either way.


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## TBonez (Jul 9, 2020)

:rock::rock::rock:Imalent DM70 :rock::rock::rock:


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