# BatterySpaces 4000mah 26650 cells Graph



## cmacclel (Jun 21, 2009)

Cells look to be actually rated properly! I have only tested at 1 & 2 C and they have exceeded there labeled rating.

4amp 
69F Start
76F 15 Min
78F 30 Min
80F 45 Min
84F 60min

8amp
66F Start
92F 15 Min
104F 30 Min


Cells measure 

66.5mm Length
26.3mm Diameter


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## TexLite (Jun 22, 2009)

Thats Awesome,

Thanks for the graph Mac!

-Michael


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 2, 2009)

Mac, your graphs drop a bit more than the pdf presentation from BatterySpace.com, but I agree it looks pretty close.

Personally I would not buy these cells because of the 6 month life listed in table 2.2; item #13. That is going to be 6 months after their factory ships them. They appear to have about 150 cycles at 8A discharge if used during the first 6 months, after which they have about 70% capacity left. 

They don't list the deterioration drop off (approaching and beyond 6 months) over time if used minimally. In the other thread, these were initially listed as 40A cells (unless OP was mistaken).


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## lolzertank (Jul 21, 2009)

Mac, maybe you could run the test again now that a month's passed? Then we could try to extrapolate the capacity loss after 6 months to see how bad the capacity loss really is.


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## Mjolnir (Jul 22, 2009)

Are these the same as IMR cells? How do they differ from these cells, as well as AW's IMR C cells?


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## lolzertank (Jul 22, 2009)

These are IMR, though they have very high capacity compared to most IMR cells and a lower max current rating.


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## Mjolnir (Jul 22, 2009)

Any idea why they would be listed as having a shelf life? Why would these cells degrade more than others? DO all IMR cells have a "shelf life?"


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## cmacclel (Jul 22, 2009)

lolzertank said:


> Mac, maybe you could run the test again now that a month's passed? Then we could try to extrapolate the capacity loss after 6 months to see how bad the capacity loss really is.


 

Loss is negligible if at all after 32 days.


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## TexLite (Jul 22, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> Loss is negligible if at all after 32 days.



Thanks again Mac, that's interesting.

At this price point I'm willing to accept a shorter cycle life in favor of the large capacity and safer chemistry, at least until something better comes along.

Hopefully by the time these cells come up short, an improvement will be made to cycle life.

12-18mos from now I may think differently, but that's my take for now.

-Michael


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## Mjolnir (Jul 22, 2009)

Any idea if this would flash the 3854 H bulb? From Lux's destructive bulb testing it seems that it can stand about 8.5 V before flashing, but this cell doesn't seem to go higher than 4.1 from the graph, which would put 2 of them at about 8.2 V at the highest.


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## cmacclel (Jul 22, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> Any idea if this would flash the 3854 H bulb? From Lux's destructive bulb testing it seems that it can stand about 8.5 V before flashing, but this cell doesn't seem to go higher than 4.1 from the graph, which would put 2 of them at about 8.2 V at the highest.


 

There would be a great possibility for an instaflash. These cells can put out alot of amps. If you charged them to 4.0 instead of 4.2v you may be OK.

Mac


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## VidPro (Jul 22, 2009)

*cmacclel :twothumbs thanks* for comming back with the update info , of the one month stats


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## Mjolnir (Jul 23, 2009)

Does this mean that the 6 month thing is not an issue?


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## cmacclel (Jul 23, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> Does this mean that the 6 month thing is not an issue?




It appears that way......but I guess we will really find out in 6 months 

Mac


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## Patriot (Jul 23, 2009)

I'm not sure what to make out of the 6 month thing or why they chose to rate it so conservatively. It appears they're performing great according to your latest test.

Thanks for the helpful info Mac.


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## Mjolnir (Jul 23, 2009)

These seem like a pretty good option instead of 18650's for my ROP (since they should be about the same length). 
Any ideas of how to charge these with a PILA IBC? I don't think making a charging cradle out of a C battery holder would work, since these are larger than C cells. Maybe a D cell battery holder would work? I would rather not have to make magnetic charging leads.


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## metlarules (Jul 23, 2009)

I would imagine that they will last longer if the discharge is 1a or less like most LED lights. It would be nice if you could run this test once a month so we could see the degradation of the cell over time. Thanks for the graphs.


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## lolzertank (Jul 23, 2009)

Thanks! If the 6 months to 70% capacity loss was constant, the capacity should already have dropped about 200mah.

I don't think the shelf life rating means what we think it is. I noticed Emoli has a prismatic Li-ion cell rated at only 1 year of shelf life which seems pretty doubtful as well. 

Once my wallet decides that it isn't so empty for flashlights (Discrimination! Bad wallet!) anymore,


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## metlarules (Jul 24, 2009)

Now if only we can get Fivemega to make one of his Surefire tubes in single 26650 size. Can you imagine the runtime on a multimode drop-in on low with this battery? :thumbsup:


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## lolzertank (Jul 24, 2009)

metlarules said:


> Can you imagine the runtime on a multimode drop-in on low with this battery? :thumbsup:



Yeah, just hand over the calculator. About 25% longer than how long a AW C Li-ion lasts? And those were pretty high capacity to begin with...


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## PhantomPhoton (Jul 25, 2009)

metlarules said:


> Now if only we can get Fivemega to make one of his Surefire tubes in single 26650 size. Can you imagine the runtime on a multimode drop-in on low with this battery? :thumbsup:



+1
Been wanting another run of those for updated 'C' cell sizes for awhile now. 

Mac thanks for the updates and the original report.
:twothumbs


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## 45/70 (Jul 25, 2009)

Great to see some actual "hands on" performance graphs for this cell. :thumbsup: Much preferred to some DF kid, just "Googling" it. I'm hoping to see a 32600 in this size soon.

Thanks for the effort, Mac! :thumbsup:

Dave


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## metlarules (Jul 25, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> Mac, your graphs drop a bit more than the pdf presentation from BatterySpace.com, but I agree it looks pretty close.
> 
> Personally I would not buy these cells because of the 6 month life listed in table 2.2; item #13. That is going to be 6 months after their factory ships them. They appear to have about 150 cycles at 8A discharge if used during the first 6 months, after which they have about 70% capacity left.
> 
> They don't list the deterioration drop off (approaching and beyond 6 months) over time if used minimally. In the other thread, these were initially listed as 40A cells (unless OP was mistaken).


 When I originally made the post the advertisement did say that it was a 40 a cell. However it was 40a burst with 10a continuous. Now they just say 10a continuous unless you click on the pdf of the specs. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Mjolnir (Aug 6, 2009)

So does anyone have any idea if these cells will fit in a D battery holder, such as this one:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2131
These cells are 5 mm longer than most D cells, but hopefully there is some extra slack on the spring for a 26650...


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## wildstar87 (Aug 7, 2009)

So do these fit in a stock C Mag body tube?


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2009)

metlarules said:


> I would imagine that they will last longer if the discharge is 1a or less like most LED lights. It would be nice if you could run this test once a month so we could see the degradation of the cell over time. Thanks for the graphs.



I think it would be nice to see 3 & 6 month. They use the Manganese Spinel structured cathode which gives different features. I don't know if there is a date of manufacture stamped on them, which is the starting clock for all Li-Ion rundown times.


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## lolzertank (Aug 7, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> I think it would be nice to see 3 & 6 month. They use the Manganese Spinel structured cathode which gives different features. I don't know if there is a date of manufacture stamped on them, which is the starting clock for all Li-Ion rundown times.



Well Doc, where's the DeLorean?


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## Mjolnir (Aug 7, 2009)

lolzertank said:


> Well Doc, where's the DeLorean?


Actually "time travel" into the future wouldn't require anything more than relativistic travel at speeds approaching the speed of light. If you are on something going sufficiently fast enough, the 3 to 6 months will only be a few days (depending on your speed).


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## soupdragon (Aug 7, 2009)

with the limited lifespan aside these do seem perfect and I was gonna get a couple but the larger snag I hit was the fact that shipping the UK is $65!


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## ^^Nova^^ (Aug 7, 2009)

Yeah, I got the same figure for shipping to Australia. 

Cheers,
Nova


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## Chodes (Aug 7, 2009)

^^Nova^^ said:


> Yeah, I got the same figure for shipping to Australia.
> 
> Cheers,
> Nova



I phoned them. They said to include personal note saying to use USPS and they would refund the difference later. Just have to hope they do read the personal note...


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## kz1000s1 (Aug 13, 2009)

What voltage is the 26650 coming off the charger at for you?
The IMR 18650 stops at up to 4.25V on mine.


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## cmacclel (Aug 13, 2009)

kz1000s1 said:


> What voltage are these coming off the charger at?


 


4.2v


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## Fulgeo (Aug 23, 2009)

Hey cmacclel,

Anything new to report on these cells? Have you beaten them up much and have they held up?


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## cmacclel (Aug 23, 2009)

Fulgeo said:


> Hey cmacclel,
> 
> Anything new to report on these cells? Have you beaten them up much and have they held up?




I have not really used them yet other than the discharge graphs.

Mac


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 23, 2009)

lolzertank said:


> Thanks! If the 6 months to 70% capacity loss was constant, the capacity should already have dropped about 200mah.
> 
> I don't think the shelf life rating means what we think it is. I noticed Emoli has a prismatic Li-ion cell rated at only 1 year of shelf life which seems pretty doubtful as well.



No one said anything about what capacity they would have at 6 months. If you read what I wrote, and what is on the PDF, you see what the 70% capacity figure related to. 

They didn't say what they meant by "6 month shelf life," but we do know that Lithium batteries deteriorate to various degrees over time once produced. Having a spinel cathode structure makes it more unique in comparison to other Lithium secondary cells. You may see little to no capacity loss in an unused battery, and then after 6 months--a slow, medium, or relatively fast deterioration. We don't know if it is a linear deterioration, or an accelerating curve with time.

If I was going to buy these, I would first call batteryspace and ask them if they know what the "6 month shelf life" spec means precisely.


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## metlarules (Sep 1, 2009)

for any more updates


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## metlarules (Sep 18, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> No one said anything about what capacity they would have at 6 months. If you read what I wrote, and what is on the PDF, you see what the 70% capacity figure related to.
> 
> They didn't say what they meant by "6 month shelf life," but we do know that Lithium batteries deteriorate to various degrees over time once produced. Having a spinel cathode structure makes it more unique in comparison to other Lithium secondary cells. You may see little to no capacity loss in an unused battery, and then after 6 months--a slow, medium, or relatively fast deterioration. We don't know if it is a linear deterioration, or an accelerating curve with time.
> 
> If I was going to buy these, I would first call batteryspace and ask them if they know what the "6 month shelf life" spec means precisely.


 I just emailed them to find the answer of the 6 month shelf life meaning. I'll post the answer when I get it.


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## metlarules (Sep 18, 2009)

Wow! That was fast. He already sent the reply.

Hi,

The Shelf life in the spec. sheet means that the charge of the battery (usually 40% of the battery capacity) from the manufacturer will self discharge after 6 months.


Thanks

Raymond
Customer service/Sales


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## easilyled (Sep 19, 2009)

Thanks for clearing that up. 
That's definitely preferable to the 26650 gradually losing capacity over the 1st 6 months. :thumbsup:
I suppose it does mean that the cell needs to be charged up regularly to avoid discharge and presumably cell death.
With protected li-ions this is not an issue.


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## easilyled (Sep 22, 2009)

Anyone know if its safe to go out of the room while these are charging with a Smart Charger rather than to watch them until they have turned green?

In other words will the Smart Charger stop charging them once they have reached 4.2V?


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## metlarules (Sep 22, 2009)

It depends on the charger. The only charger that I am aware of that teminates fully after the charge is the Pila IBC. However,I wouldn't leave any lithium rechargable unattended.


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## Mjolnir (Sep 22, 2009)

My PILA IBC charges terminates the charge just fine.


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## cmacclel (Sep 23, 2009)

easilyled said:


> Anyone know if its safe to go out of the room while these are charging with a Smart Charger rather than to watch them until they have turned green?
> 
> In other words will the Smart Charger stop charging them once they have reached 4.2V?



All Li-Ion chargers are CV chargers (Constant Voltage) I do not like to leave any battery charging regardless of chemistry unsupervised. I'll walk away for a few minutes but that about it.

Mac


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## Fulgeo (Sep 23, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> All Li-Ion chargers are CV chargers (Constant Voltage) I do not like to leave any battery charging regardless of chemistry unsupervised. I'll walk away for a few minutes but that about it.
> 
> Mac



Words of wisdom Mac. I am the same way. Before I go to bed I have incorporated the "better check the charging station". My station being a table where I do all my charging on that includes all my dedicated chargers. Heck I do not go to bed with my battery shaver charging. Insane but in a good way!


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## LEDAdd1ct (Sep 26, 2009)

Thanks for the graphs, Mac!


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## metlarules (Nov 11, 2009)

Bump for updates


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## cmacclel (Nov 12, 2009)

metlarules said:


> Bump for updates



I topped off the number 1 cell last night. I will update today with a 141 day Graph.

Mac


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## mknewman (Nov 12, 2009)

I sent a message or two to FiveMega and he's now added some 26650 tubes, 15mm longer, to the lineup. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/235414

I've got a couple on order along with some of the orange 26650's from Batteryspace. My bet is they are the same chemistry and likely manufacturer as AW's IMR cells.



metlarules said:


> Now if only we can get Fivemega to make one of his Surefire tubes in single 26650 size. Can you imagine the runtime on a multimode drop-in on low with this battery? :thumbsup:


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## bstrickler (Dec 14, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> I topped off the number 1 cell last night. I will update today with a 141 day Graph.
> 
> Mac



Any update on this?

~Brian


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## ptolemy (Dec 29, 2009)

I think I got the last 2 cells, they just arrived today.

Looking at them, on the side which batteryspace is not showing, it says: IMR-26650 G019 and below 4000mah 3.8v

i wonder if this is same as cmacclel. my holders got lost in the mail, so they are resending them, so i can't test it til next week!


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## ptolemy (Jan 1, 2010)

here how they look. they also do not fit into d sell holders, as they are like 5 mm longer


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## cmacclel (Jan 1, 2010)

Cell Dimensions

Diameter 1.038
Length 2.615

Mac


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## Billy Ram (Jan 2, 2010)

cmacclel said:


> Cell Dimensions
> 
> Diameter 1.038
> Length 2.615
> ...


 The dimentions you measured will work perfectly in my new project. I plan on using 3ea. IMR26650 (2.615"x3=7.845") in a FM 4x26500 body. My IMR 26500s measure 1.030"x1.967". 4ea.=7.868" with the differance being only .023" I won't have to worry with shimming or adding a button to the tail spring to make proper connection.
Billy


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## Raoul_Duke (Jan 2, 2010)

Cool thaks for that Mac...I put the info in here to convert it to mm


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## Billy Ram (Jan 4, 2010)

Mine came in today in good shape 3.96v. ea.




Lets get these things ready




Billy


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## netprince (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm just curious, how are these cells 'safer operation than LiCo batteries'? So they are safer than LiCo, but not as safe as LiFePO4? I would like to avoid the possibility of 'vent with flame' if something accidentally gets shorted...

Also, is it just me, or did they change the chemistry on the product page to LiMnNiCo? The specification still lists LiMnNi...


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## Fulgeo (Jan 12, 2010)

netprince said:


> I'm just curious, how are these cells 'safer operation than LiCo batteries'? So they are safer than LiCo, but not as safe as LiFePO4? I would like to avoid the possibility of 'vent with flame' if something accidentally gets shorted...
> 
> Also, is it just me, or did they change the chemistry on the product page to LiMnNiCo? The specification still lists LiMnNi...


 
The IMR cells are safer than the older LiCo lithium cells in the sense that in the case of a catastrophic failure they will not violently vent with flame. Their chemical make up prevents this. That being said IMR cells still contain toxic chemicals. The LiFePO4 cells will not violently vent with flame and also do not contain toxic chemicals. Toxicity is a relative thing thou since even table salt can be considered toxic. So I always make it simple and think of the environment (my house) and me trying to live in it. LiCo Cells = Bad, IMR Cells = Ok and LiFePO4 Cells = Good.


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## Billy Ram (Jan 16, 2010)

After running these batterys a while I've got some information to share. I have found these batterys don't quite deliver the current the AW-IMR26500s do. It's only a small differance that you can't see in brightness. AW IMR26500x3 @ 12.5v. will deliver 5.45a. to the FM1909 measured at the tail cap. IMR 26650x3 @ 12.5v. deliver 5.35a. in the same light. The run time is very good with the IMR26650s. After running both sets of batterys the same time the 26650s had 4.03v. at rest to the 26500s 3.88v.
Billy


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## ptolemy (Jan 17, 2010)

Billy Ram said:


> After running these batterys a while I've got some information to share. I have found these batterys don't quite deliver the current the AW-IMR26500s do. It's only a small differance that you can't see in brightness. AW IMR26500x3 @ 12.5v. will deliver 5.45a. to the FM1909 measured at the tail cap. IMR 26650x3 @ 12.5v. deliver 5.35a. in the same light. The run time is very good with the IMR26650s. After running both sets of batterys the same time the 26650s had 4.03v. at rest to the 26500s 3.88v.
> Billy


 
Did you find them to be true to their capasity? I think .1a is negligible over such capasity increase, but that's my opinion


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## Billy Ram (Jan 17, 2010)

ptolemy said:


> Did you find them to be true to their capasity? I think .1a is negligible over such capasity increase, but that's my opinion


 I haven't ran them all the way down and timed them but I've checked the voltage after running the light and the 26650s don't drain nearly as fast as 26500s. My 3x26500/FM1909 will run bright for over 20 mins and I'm thinking 26650s should be over 40 mins. I keep both lights with me so that should be more than 1 hr. run time.
Billy


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## cmacclel (Jan 18, 2010)

Billy Ram said:


> After running these batterys a while I've got some information to share. I have found these batterys don't quite deliver the current the AW-IMR26500s do. It's only a small differance that you can't see in brightness. AW IMR26500x3 @ 12.5v. will deliver 5.45a. to the FM1909 measured at the tail cap. IMR 26650x3 @ 12.5v. deliver 5.35a. in the same light. The run time is very good with the IMR26650s. After running both sets of batterys the same time the 26650s had 4.03v. at rest to the 26500s 3.88v.
> Billy


 

My tests show the opposite of yours  and to boot the IMR cell is at 2.3amps and the BS cell is pulling almost double the current(4 amps) and has a higher starting voltage and almost double the runtime.


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## ptolemy (Jan 18, 2010)

these look to be nice cells. but i only will have 2 lights thta will use them, and since I have 2 already, I was thinking of getting 2 more cells, but I am not sure for how long/what charge they can be safely stored...


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## nein166 (Feb 10, 2010)

Don't Surefire CR123 have a shelf life of 10 years, but they are primaries.

According to the PDF a shelf life for this rechargeable cell is 6 months.

Wouldn't that be until it SELF DISCHARGES and the voltage is less than the shipping voltage?


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## Raoul_Duke (Feb 10, 2010)

nein166 said:


> According to the PDF a shelf life for this rechargeable cell is 6 months.
> 
> Wouldn't that be until it SELF DISCHARGES and the voltage is less than the shipping voltage?



Thats what they said when I rang them...Mind you, they just seemed to read the sheet first, and then say yes as that was my suggestion for the shelf life term used on thr data sheet.


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## bkumanski (Feb 27, 2010)

So am I correct that the LiMnNiCo Rechargeable 26650 Cells listed at batteryspace are IMRs? How are you guys charging these?


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## ptolemy (Feb 27, 2010)

nein166 said:


> Don't Surefire CR123 have a shelf life of 10 years, but they are primaries.
> 
> According to the PDF a shelf life for this rechargeable cell is 6 months.
> 
> Wouldn't that be until it SELF DISCHARGES and the voltage is less than the shipping voltage?


 

tests conducted by the OP say otherwise




bkumanski said:


> So am I correct that the LiMnNiCo Rechargeable 26650 Cells listed at batteryspace are IMRs? How are you guys charging these?


 
i am using hobby charger


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## HarryN (May 10, 2010)

Hi, just noting this very useful thread. Thanks for the links. I might try 3 S of these in my streamlight SL-20x and see how it works out.


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## Billy Ram (May 10, 2010)

Mine are doing great after running them 4 months. I have run them for 45 mins straight with the FM1909 two days in a row and for a couple of weeks they were run down and charged about 8 times. My m*g85s were getting a work out too.
Billy


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## kramer5150 (May 10, 2010)

Billy Ram said:


> Mine are doing great after running them 4 months. I have run them for 45 mins straight with the FM1909 two days in a row and for a couple of weeks they were run down and charged about 8 times. My m*g85s were getting a work out too.
> Billy




I have similar results using 2x in a 2D-ROP. No complaints, after quite a few deep discharges (~3.75V / ea).


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## Billy Ram (Oct 10, 2010)

I just want to report my 26650s are doing fine after 9 months of continued use behind a 1909. They hold their charge well and seem to haven't lost any run time. I'm ordering 3 more to up grade one of my m*g-85s to the 1909. You just can't beat over 40 mins run time with this much light.
Billy


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## Loomin (Jul 14, 2011)

I am VERY new to battery chemistry, i have been searching for hours and can't get a good answer i feel comfortable with. So here are my questions...

1) Will this charger http://www.environmentalled.com/4Sevens-26650-Battery-Charger-p1355.html work with these cells?
2) If so, should it be set to 3.7 or 4.2? The battery says 3.7 but i believe thats just the nominal voltage, correct?
3) If a flashlight "recommends" LiMnNi 26650 batteries, what would be the adverse effects of using Li-ion 26650 cells?


Any help with any of the questions is greatly appreciated. I've been racking my brains to find answers online and hearing about batteries exploding and leaking vapors and all kind of stuff that is new to me. Just want to be safe.


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## Billy Ram (Jul 14, 2011)

Loomin said:


> I am VERY new to battery chemistry, i have been searching for hours and can't get a good answer i feel comfortable with. So here are my questions...
> 
> 1) Will this charger http://www.environmentalled.com/4Sevens-26650-Battery-Charger-p1355.html work with these cells?
> That charger will work for one cell at a time and if the battery is discharged to a very low level it will take quite a while to fully charged.
> ...


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