# Need Solution to replace fluorescent to LED



## gammaray1965 (Oct 23, 2016)

Hello, I hope that I posted this in the right section! Anyhow, I have some older 8ft T12 110watt fluorescent tubes in my shop and want to replace them with LED lighting! I have a total of 3-fixtures each fixture has (2) Philips T12/F96/110watt high output tubes. I searched around on the internet and I see that they do offer these retrofit type LED tube replacements for what I have now, but they won't give me the lumen output I want and need! I looked on alibaba for ones that put out more lumens, but I really think I would be taking a high risk of not getting good quality ones! I also thought about making something myself using these larger LEDS that come in small wattage of 3watts and go up to 100watts. I looked at these larger emitters on a site called banggood and they seem to have a good review from buyers at good prices. Perhaps someone has a good solution that can give me some advice and help! I think it would be cool to make my own LED lighting and replace these fluorescent tubes. Please Help! Thanks!

John


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 25, 2016)

Bump!


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## Lexel (Oct 25, 2016)

In general those COB you probably mean goes to 100W just the thing is you need to effectively cool them to a moderate temperature.

another solution eould be light stripes with glue and ape on the backsite there Re 60 LEDs per meter ones
if you cut them to 1 meter lengh and use multiple rows of them to get the Lumens you need
bcs the copper of them is not that thick you should put 12V in the middle of the stripe and not go beyond 1.5m lengh that way, or add another voltage connection in between
I used a metal case power supply that has a tunable resistor to change voltage between 10.8 and 13.2V I measured between the 12V supply points to habe ther real 12V and about 12.8V at the power supply to compensate voltage drop in the cables

One meter gives you 800lumens and you can get multiple rows inside the lamp

I got one row of strip with 3m lengh im my cellar and it has the brightness of about 200W tungsten light
http://www.banggood.com/5M-WhiteWar...Ds-Strip-light-12V-p-922423.html?rmmds=search

if you dont want to solder you can buy 0.5m bars that have already cables on them
http://www.banggood.com/50cm-9W-563...binet-Light-DC-12V-p-933993.html?rmmds=search


https://www.earthled.com/collection...ast-bypass-36-watt-3900-lumens-clear?variant=19956794756
those are not bright enough 3900lumens while the tubes from philips are rated 5300lumens


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 26, 2016)

Lexel said:


> In general those COB you probably mean goes to 100W just the thing is you need to effectively cool them to a moderate temperature.
> 
> another solution eould be light stripes with glue and ape on the backsite there Re 60 LEDs per meter ones
> if you cut them to 1 meter lengh and use multiple rows of them to get the Lumens you need
> ...



Hi Lexel! Thanks for your reply! That may be an option for the strips. I have also considered trying these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JRRJKHA/?tag=cpf0b6-20 and using heat sinks perhaps like these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00REFDKJW/?tag=cpf0b6-20 Perhaps finding the heat sinks cheaper somewhere else  Do you know if it is possible to use A/C dimmer switches that would dime this type of device? I guess the A/C would run to the D/C power converter and use some type of dimming voltage regulator in combination with a setup like this?


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## Lexel (Oct 26, 2016)

There are special LED drivers that dim the LED 12V output by PWM, using the AC voltage as supply and value how much to fade
just keep the wiring on 12V side as thick and short as possible to reduce voltage drop as they haveno adjustment to compensate voltage drop


for any 12V DC LED you can use drivers like this using your dimming light switches
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ABI-12V-40W...-Transformer-for-LED-Puck-Light-/361339341796

if you run those COB or stripes make sure not to overload the LED driver using a amperemeter to check drain current and let there 10 or 20% less current for safety


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 27, 2016)

Cool! Thanks a lot! So I can run my 120 volt A/C to this LED driver/dimmer device, then run to the LEDS and use my wall dimmer switch to control the light output?


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## Lexel (Oct 27, 2016)

Yes its like dimmable bulbs


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 27, 2016)

I noticed in that eBay link you posted, it looks like someone had purchased this 40watt power supply/dimmer and complained about a buzzing noise when in use..lol..I wonder if they all do that? Also, the panels I plan to make using LEDS on an aluminum flat strip will use between 43-46 volts and if I were to run these strips at say the maximum voltage, each panel would draw around 1.4 amps/65 watts. So my question is should I get a power driver/dimmer that has a peak current rating of 65 watts? I guess I am a little confused about having CC on the LEDS. Perhaps you would like to enlighten me here on how the voltage and current is drawn from the LEDS. I know that if you take a 12 volt incandescent bulb, you can use it on an automobile 12 volt battery that is capable of producing very high amperage output. But yet the small 12 volt light bulb can run for a long period of time as it is only drawing a very small amount of current. I am guessing that LEDS are a totally different beast??? Thanks again Lexel!


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## Lexel (Oct 27, 2016)

most dimmable LED drivers buzz

there are 2 types of LED modules/stripes

one that have a fixed voltage and resistors to limit the current, often group 3 or 6 LEDs in series
There you use a CV driver as 12 or 24V
any voltage drop in the cables reduce the current delivered to the LEDs

second has just the LEDs in Groups of 3/6/12 and have no resistors to limit current
here you use a LED driver that delivers the current like 350/700/1050/2A matching top your LED module 
the voltage is not a fixed value rated 40-60V for exaple
a module running at 1050mA and your 48V driver will compensate all losses in the cables just delivering extra voltage


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## Lexel (Oct 27, 2016)

server is laggy


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 28, 2016)

Yes, I agree about this server being very laggy, almost like dial up..lol

Ok, I understand now what you describe about the 2 different types of LED strips/modules. So I hope you don't mind me asking more questions about this..I am just trying to absorb and understand this better. Let's say I was going to replace (2) 8ft fluorescent tubes and use LED emitters on aluminum flat bar for the heat sink. I suppose that using LEDS that will run too hot would not be a good choice, so I would have to consider using LEDS that would still emit good light and won't burn up due to the lack of proper heat sinking. My questions would be how should I choose these leds and how would I know how far I should space them? Then there is the question of if I was to go with say a 4ft length of certain thickness and width of an aluminum flat bar, should I use resistors on each LED, or use (1) driver for each 4ft strip? I would also have to guess that if I were to use say 20 or 50 LEDS on these 4ft heat sinks, I am guessing that I would connect all 20 or 50 LEDS in series? I wonder if any of these COB lights used on a flat aluminum heat sink would produce good lumen output: http://toolboom.com/en/Energy-Saving/LED-Diodes Sorry to ask so many questions! Thanks again!


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## Lexel (Oct 28, 2016)

The good thing on LED stripes is that those LEDs run at about 40% of their max rated current, because they have not that much heatsink
that means their lumen per watt efficiency is very high compared to a COB one

I got those 5630 LED stripes
I tested here 10cm with 6 LEDs they draw 100mA at 12V, they are rated 9W per meter which is what you get if you put 12W on one side
each LED is rated 0.5W in the datasheet but in fact only driven below 0.2W

1 meter strip easily beats a 60 or even 75W tungsten bulb
1 meter bar depends which LEDs and number per meter, but can be up 200W tungsten

to reduce voltage drop in the strip is best to solder short wires every 50cm on the stripe and connect there all the stripwires parallel to a 2.5mm² wire
you dont need nessesaryly cut the LED stripe at all

you can buy those on bars on Aluminium
https://de.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20161028020221&SearchText=led+rigid+bar
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/50cm..._1&btsid=6bb008ab-5551-48cc-be95-cf69ae369ac0


this is a pretty mount to get the LED bars inside
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/10pc..._1&btsid=92b09139-7721-442d-9c00-7fcecab0bc81
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/10PC...el-for-LED-Strip-light-AP010/32270283908.html


there are also Dual color bars you can adjust the color temperature of the lights using 2 dimmable power supplies
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/Sams..._1&btsid=6bb008ab-5551-48cc-be95-cf69ae369ac0

they can run on 0.4W per LED as the cooling is better

those LEDs are in several colors availiable
2700K
3000K
3500K
4000K
5000K
5700K
6500K


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 28, 2016)

well I tried clicking on the links you posted, but I can't read German..hehehehe
I have been searching around the web for some solutions to LEDS, and came across these: https://www.digikey.com/product-det...uctor-inc/SI-B8R341B20WW/1510-1424-ND/5992257 and also these: https://www.digikey.com/product-det...uctor-inc/SI-B8R301B20WW/1510-1420-ND/5992253
These are the Samsung brand modules. They also have these: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXEB-L1120Z-50E4000-C-A3/976-1505-ND/6236291 Not bad for a 280 mm strip to output 4,920 lumens, but I would guess I would have to use separate drivers/dimmers on each module. What do you think about these modules Lexel?


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## Lexel (Oct 28, 2016)

there must be a wrong figure on the 28cm module it uses less effective 5050 LEDs that cant be anywhere close to 4920 Lumens at 28cm only if the board would be each case very close to the next and more than one row its 280cm long https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesal...id=SB_20161028053916&SearchText=led+rigid+bar https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesal...ble+row+led+rigid+strip&productId=32737309016 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p..._1&btsid=da5afbcc-1e60-472f-a4bc-ae7e73ad5aa6 you can change language very easy on that site


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 28, 2016)

Lexel said:


> there must be a wrong figure on the 28cm module it uses less effective 5050 LEDs that cant be anywhere close to 4920 Lumens at 28cm only if the board would be each case very close to the next and more than one row its 280cm long https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesal...id=SB_20161028053916&SearchText=led+rigid+bar https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesal...ble+row+led+rigid+strip&productId=32737309016 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p..._1&btsid=da5afbcc-1e60-472f-a4bc-ae7e73ad5aa6 you can change language very easy on that site



Yes, you are correct about the wrong figure! I checked the actual Bridgelux site and it is a mistake on the digi-key site. Good catch! The only thing I really hate to order anything on aliexpress or alibaba is that you never know what you will get. Have you dealt with any of these so called companies in China that list there products on alibaba?


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## Lexel (Oct 28, 2016)

I have done about 50 orders on Banggood, AliExpress and Gearbest together
Mostly small stuff below 22€ taxation limit
I ordered so much the

i got usually the stuff in 2-3 weeks, fastest was 4 days 2-3 items took 8-10 weeks

no losses, defective or damaged items so far

I got 8 such 50cm bars for my parents house used with an old PC PSU works great


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 28, 2016)

I saw this site that are selling a 16 foot reel of LED strips for $239.00 They are probably getting these reels from China and marking them up 2000%..lol
they are using the epistar 3014 chips. Gotta just love rip-off companies like that! Do you know of a led strip that can produce say around 8-10K lumens per 8 foot run? I just need high lumen output like that!


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 28, 2016)

Lexel, what do you think of these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/qua...2303130092.html?spm=2114.01010208.8.28.uNJJ4i seems like I could get high lumens using 2- 8ft rows on my fixtures. I would just need to order 1 driver for each light fixture as I would need to do 3 fixtures!


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## Lexel (Oct 28, 2016)

That stripe looks good, better than doing multiple single row led stripes parallel


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 29, 2016)

Lexel, I was wondering if I purchased (4) of these modules: https://www.digikey.com/product-det...uctor-inc/SI-B8R301B20WW/1510-1420-ND/5992253
Do you know how I would connect them? I'm not sure if I can run them all in series or a parallel/series configuration. I thought about using some type of a circuit board that would run CV and CC to each module and just use a main A/C to D/C power supply with dimming capability. Not sure about this, perhaps you would like to comment on this set-up..
Thanks again for all of your help!


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## Lexel (Oct 29, 2016)

Those modules are specified for CC 1.2A mode
you can get em in series but not parallel on one driver


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 29, 2016)

Lexel said:


> Those modules are specified for CC 1.2A mode
> you can get em in series but not parallel on one driver



So I can run them in series and use a 24volt power supply with a CC of 4.8 amps? I am wondering if I could even go with a little more voltage
like a 30 volt or so power supply with CC of 4.8 amps?


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## Lexel (Oct 29, 2016)

You cant run them parallel with 4.8A without balancing electronics

the module will take about 24.8V but this voltage is just a typical value can be 18-26V depending on dimming and temperature


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## gammaray1965 (Oct 29, 2016)

Lexel said:


> You cant run them parallel with 4.8A without balancing electronics
> 
> the module will take about 24.8V but this voltage is just a typical value can be 18-26V depending on dimming and temperature



I asked if I can run them in "series" not parallel I was only asking if I could use a 26volt power supply with a fixed CC of 4.8amps


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## Lexel (Oct 29, 2016)

In series the current doesnt add just the voltage

if you run 4 in series you need a driver with 1.2A and around 100V range


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## gammaray1965 (Nov 1, 2016)

Lexel said:


> In series the current doesnt add just the voltage
> 
> if you run 4 in series you need a driver with 1.2A and around 100V range



Lexel, Can you tell me if this will work out good? I will use (2) of these in series: https://www.digikey.com/product-det...uctor-inc/SI-B8R301B20WW/1510-1420-ND/5992253 And use this LED power supply: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/xp-power/DLE60PS48/1470-2514-ND/4807684

What do you think? Thanks in advanced!


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## Lexel (Nov 1, 2016)

https://www.digikey.com/product-det...technologies/LDS70-58-U01/454-1425-ND/2486038


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## pgwisn (Dec 2, 2016)

gammaray1965,

Did you get your shop lights converted? What did you do in the end?
I have a 24 ft by 30 ft wood shop i need to light, and LEDs is looking like the way to go.
Old fluorescent housings are readily available, so i was considering doing something like you have described.
Thanks in advance,


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## NH-Steve (Dec 9, 2016)

gammaray1965 said:


> Hello, I hope that I posted this in the right section! Anyhow, I have some older 8ft T12 110watt fluorescent tubes in my shop and want to replace them with LED lighting! I have a total of 3-fixtures each fixture has (2) Philips T12/F96/110watt high output tubes. I searched around on the internet and I see that they do offer these retrofit type LED tube replacements for what I have now, but they won't give me the lumen output I want and need! I looked on alibaba for ones that put out more lumens, but I really think I would be taking a high risk of not getting good quality ones! I also thought about making something myself using these larger LEDS that come in small wattage of 3watts and go up to 100watts. I looked at these larger emitters on a site called banggood and they seem to have a good review from buyers at good prices. Perhaps someone has a good solution that can give me some advice and help! I think it would be cool to make my own LED lighting and replace these fluorescent tubes. Please Help! Thanks!
> 
> John



Why not consider a simple solution such as LED linear tubes as a replacement for those nasty fluorescents? HyperIkon products are awesome and available via Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SUMEGSC/?tag=cpf0b6-20). Remove the ballast of your fixture, and wire 110V directly to the lampholders. I've used their 2', 4', and 8' tubes and highly recommend them.


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## Lithopsian (Dec 11, 2016)

There are LED replacements for T8 and R12 HO tubes. Are you concerned that they typically have a 20% or so lower lumen output? That is basically because all the output of an LED goes down, while half the output of a fluorescent tube goes up and then some of it gets reflected past the tube back down again. The end result is more or less the same light on the ground. You might even notice an improvement, since your old T12s are almost certainly 20% or more off their initial brightness.


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## gammaray1965 (Feb 17, 2017)

pgwisn said:


> gammaray1965,
> 
> Did you get your shop lights converted? What did you do in the end?
> I have a 24 ft by 30 ft wood shop i need to light, and LEDs is looking like the way to go.
> ...



Hi pgwisn,

Yes, I did finish the conversion. I used (4) Samsung LED modules per light fixture. Each module (1120mm X 18mm) are mounted on an aluminum profile that I cut to 45" and also I am using frosted covers to diffuse the dots. I am using (1) driver to run the 4 modules, which is the best way in my opinion. each of the 2 modules are wired in series then both are paralleled to the driver. The driver is a Mean Well 150 watt driver rated at 54V/2.8A. It is dimmable and I use a 100K ohm potentiometer for the dimming. Each light fixture will output a little over 20,000 lumens on high. If I turn the pot down to half position, I can get over 100,000 hours of runtime! Running them at rated specs will give me <50,000 hours! I have done 3 of these light fixtures for my shop and using 2 fixtures at 5,000K, and one at 4,000K. Best thing I've done in a long time! I would never go back to fluorescent!!!! 

Gammaray


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## gammaray1965 (Feb 17, 2017)

NH-Steve said:


> Why not consider a simple solution such as LED linear tubes as a replacement for those nasty fluorescents? HyperIkon products are awesome and available via Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SUMEGSC/?tag=cpf0b6-20). Remove the ballast of your fixture, and wire 110V directly to the lampholders. I've used their 2', 4', and 8' tubes and highly recommend them.



Hi Steve,

I did see them and was considering using them, but I just feel better now that I have built my own lighting for my shop! At least I know that most of the components I have used are quality and not some cheap junk from China!


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## gammaray1965 (Feb 17, 2017)

Lithopsian said:


> There are LED replacements for T8 and R12 HO tubes. Are you concerned that they typically have a 20% or so lower lumen output? That is basically because all the output of an LED goes down, while half the output of a fluorescent tube goes up and then some of it gets reflected past the tube back down again. The end result is more or less the same light on the ground. You might even notice an improvement, since your old T12s are almost certainly 20% or more off their initial brightness.



I have searched the web up and down and did see these replacement led tubes. I was not really concerned about the 20+% lumen loss. My main concern was that most, if not all of these led tubes, are coming directly out of China! I was really looking for quality, so I gave Samsung a try with the led modules they offer. I have no regrets as of yet! Also, these Chinese led tube replacements are still on the high priced side! I do appreciate your comment!


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