# The TigerLight Upgrade Thread



## js (Feb 20, 2004)

At this point there is enough discussion of this topic to warrant a separate thread in the appropriate forum (this one) and as far as I know, this project has more or less fallen to me, but I am happy to share the work if anyone has their own TL WA upgrade on the burner already, and I would very much like to hear people's ideas and preferences and responses.

First, however, despite the title of this thread, I want to stress that the TigerLight is designed for use by LEO and as such, the 1.1 hour runtime of the standard LA is really more or less already on the short side. Us weirdos here on CPF (God bless us!) may consider 20 minutes of runtime ample, but hey, that's us. 1/3 hour of fun and 10 on the charger. Ouch! So the "Upgrade" is meant in the sense of "Turbo charge" and in the time honored spirit of trading runtime for brightness.

There are two main upgrades to be discussed in regards to the TL. The first is obviously the lamp/reflector assembly. Consider just the lamp for now. If throwing a WA lamp in a 6.0 volt MC makes it king of the hill, what will happen when we find a suitable WA lamp for the 7.2 volt TL? We know! Step down please, Mr. MC-WA.

Here are the WA candidates at present:

1274: This is the prime candidate. It is a 7.2 volt lamp that draws 2.77 amps yielding 19.94 watts versus the 12.25 watts of the standard LA. It makes 553 lumens at this voltage, which is very close to what the 1160 pushed to 6.0 volts makes. A TL running this lamp would have slightly over 30 minutes of runtime. The lamp life of the 1274 is 40 hours and it costs $3.

1111: This 6.0 volt lamp makes 465 lumens at spec and draws a heart warming 3.35 amps (at spec). Now--and this is obviously key--*if it doesn't blow*--it will be making something like 800+ lumens at 7.2 volts and be drawing well nigh 5 amps (35 watts give or take!). Runtime would be around 20 minutes. But will it take the push? Judging by the 1160, which can really take a push, let's surmise: the life of the 1160 at spec is 550 hours; the life of the 1111 is 100. The filament diameter of the 1160 is .813 mm; the 1111 is .889. My guess is that it will take it, but I don't know how bad the bulb life will turn out to be. We shall see. These cost $6 each.

1164: This is my backup choice in case the 1111 can't take a 1.2 volt push. This lamp will almost certainly take a major push. Its life is rated at 2,500 hours, and its filament diameter is a considerable 1.08 mm. It is a 6.0 volt lamp that draws 3.28 amps (19.7 watts) and makes 300 lumens at spec. Now lest you get crest fallen at such a "low" lumen output, keep in mind that the 1160 only makes 327 lumens when driven at spec. The 1160 in the MC is being pushed 1.0 volt. The 1164 in the TL would be pushed 1.2 volts. This is EXACTLY the same proportion of push (1/6 vs. 1.2/7.2) so one could guess that the 1164 when pushed to 7.2 volts will make about the same amount of lumens as the 1160 when pushed to 6.0 volts, or slightly less due to the slightly lower efficiency of the 1164 vs. the 1160: 15.3 vs. 18.9 lumens/watt. The runtime of the TL running the 1164 would be something better than 20 minutes? Your guess is as good as mine. I don't have a lot of hope for this option, but I figured it was worth $9 for a couple just to check. because, obviously, the 1274 makes this many lumens at spec. However, these are just guesses regarding what the 1164 will be like at 7.2 volts. Who knows, maybe this will surprise us.

1185: hmmm. What? This is a 9.6 volt lamp, Jim. Yeah, I know. See below under the battery uprgrade section. Yes, you heard me right.

OK, so the next issue with a WA lamp candidate is the reflector. I for one will only consider potting a lamp into a reflector unless every other option fails me. I do not think that it is fun to throw away a perfectly good reflector just because a lamp has blown, especially once we start considering Carley RF1940's with orange peel and aluminized vacuum coating. My proposal is to use a socket which will hold the lamp and which will then be held in the reflector by the set screw. I have a handful of WA bi-pin sockets of the right size on order and I am hopeful that I can modify either the socket or the reflector so that this becomes a workable solution. The benefits, besides the one mentioned above, would also include the option to position the lamp at the focus which appeals to you. The standard TL LA is as tight a focus as they could make it in the 2 inch parabolic reflector. This is great for LEO, but many of us here on CPF would love a less-tight beam with less throw but more flood, not to mention what the orange peel would do to smooth out these monster bulbs we're talking about (including the standard TL bulb). I imagine that when I mod a socket or reflector that I will make small changes by filing or shiming or whatnot, so that the lamp socket can be perfectly centered when properly installed. I have also thought of adding more set screws to give a very easy way to move the socket around in the reflector. The TL battery power cables would then be atached to the socket leads.

The reflector: the Carley RF1940 is almost a drop in replacement for the standard reflector as it is, so it is the obvious choice. I have four of them coming to me from Carley, one of every flavor: smooth, light, medium and heavy orange peel, so that I can show people what the beams will be like (once a good lamp candidate is established). If anyone thinks of another good reflector option/company, please pipe up. The 1940 would probably run around $10 or less depending on how many we ordered.

Now for the second major possible upgrade: the battery pack. Ginseng has suggested that we could go from a 6 cell pack to a 9 cell pack with exactly the same external dimensions, by using 2/3 A cells (it currently uses 4/5 A's), and specifically the KAN 1050's. The mAH capacity would be less, of course, but running at this high of a voltage allows us to use . . . drum roll please . . . the WA 01185, Wilkey's favorite killer incan lamp. Yes. This bulb really kicks out the lumens. At 9.6 volts, 3.15 amps (30.2 watts) the 1185 makes 817 lumens. But get this, 9 cells would put us in the re-rating, push it a bit range of 10+ volts (under load), or something like 950 lumens. (Is that right, Ginseng?) And the good news is that with the KAN 1050's this would still be around 20 minutes of runtime or somewhat less. This and the 1111 are the most promising lumen-king options. The 1185 has a life of 50 hours and costs $3. Don't you just love it! $3 No $30 SureFire lamp to buy. 10X Dominator watch out!

The battery pack upgrade would unfortunately involve the need for another charger. This is beyond my knowledge at the moment, so I have asked Ginseng to advise me on this. I would love to hear what everyone has to say on the subject. What chargers are out there that could work with a little ingenuity? Could the standard charger be modified? (I wouldn't think so, but I thought I'd ask.)

Here is the time table at the moment: my WA order ships out on the 10th and my Carley reflectors ship on the 17th (of March). I do not anticipate much more than two or three weeks of testing and prototyping, depending on how busy I am. So possibly we could get group buys into WA and Carley by the end of March.

OK. That's what I got so fer.


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## Ross (Feb 20, 2004)

Jim, I will be following this with GREAT interest. I use a stock Tigerlight FBOP for work (LEO) but would love to mod it. 
Thanks for this.


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## Raymond (Feb 20, 2004)

Maybe a carleylamps 852 is also worth to try. It's a 6V 20W lamp.

And I'll be following this thread too. That tigerlight has also made it to my whishlist /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Psychomodo (Feb 20, 2004)

I'm up for whatever you think the best option. Paypal at the ready /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## Psychomodo (Feb 20, 2004)

Will this mod be reversible?
Doesn't effect my decision to upgrade - just interested /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


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## Ginseng (Feb 20, 2004)

Jim,

Excellent summary of your ideas. Your bulb choices and battery rationale make good sense. I can't wait for the next volley in this MagCharger versus Tigerlight grudge match to be launched. 

The WA01185 would be the ultimate upgrade for the TL. Your comparison to the SF M6 or Dominator is an illuminating and valid one. With the '85 lamp in there, it really would be the king of the tactical/rechargeable roost. Hehe, I can just imagine your SuperTL saying "Ok, who's next?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Can you say "Celebrity _Flashlight_ Deathmatch?" 

Wilkey


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## SilverFox (Feb 20, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I knew I got two TigerLights for some reason other than extended battery run time.

This sounds very interesting.

For my use, the battery charger has always been the weak link. I was hoping TigerLight would offer an upgraded charger, but that has not happened.

By the way, did you hear that TigerLight has changed lamp assembly manufacturers and is coming out with a new lamp? I have no additional information but am looking.

Tom


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## cheesehead (Feb 20, 2004)

Very nice summary. From the manufactures site, (I'll try and find it), current doesn't go up as dramatically as you stated. Resistance goes up with heat in these bulbs, so the TL may not be as overworked as it seems. 

cheese


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## cheesehead (Feb 20, 2004)

Output chart with life, voltage, current, etc 2 graphs at bottom of page with voltage, life, CP, etc.

Eh, this is the wrong thread, but my money would still be on the mag, bigger batteries and NiCD (less internal resistance, so you may not get the whole 7.2 you're hoping for) and mag remains focusable. Now,.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif me.


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## uhammer (Feb 20, 2004)

Interesting and very tempting...IIRC (have not open my TL for a while now), the stock lense is plastic. Do you know if it can handle the added heat due to the extra photons (I melted my plastic 9P lense running a P91 for an extended period of time)? I know that flashlightlens.com has a glass version in hte past, but I vaguely remember that those were not reliable on the TL because of the construction of the head assembly and was susceptable to cracking. Maybe flashlightlense.com has a more durable version now. Can anyone comment? Thanks.


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## SilverFox (Feb 20, 2004)

Hello Uhammer,

I believe Chris at Flashlightlens has worked out the problem of fitting the lens to the TigerLight. I have heard of someone dropping the light flat on concrete from about 6 feet and the lens did crack. In normal use it should be OK. 

The plastic TigerLight lens will melt with the TigerLight bulb if you run it for the whole 66 minutes. At least mine did...

Tom


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## js (Feb 21, 2004)

Before I forget (again) I should mention to everyone that unless I hear otherwise from TL, we should all assume that using anything other than the stock LA will void the _battery_ warranty.

OK.

Raymond, thanks for the tip on the 852. I'm looking into it, and will probably add some to my Carley order.

Psychomodo, these mod ideas discussed so far will be 100 percent reversible. All they involve are a different lamp assembly and battery. The one exception might be that if we have to use parts from the old charger to make the new 9 cell charger, then you'd have to buy a new charger from TL to go back to the stock configuration, but it's not that expensive. TL has promised to come up with a fast charger at some future date. They say they went with the trickle charge because it made the charger inexpensive. NiMH is much more difficult to fast charge because it is hard to find reliable indicators of when the cells are fully charged. It can be done, but it is not simple.

Ginseng, thanks! I too am leaning more and more towards the 1185 / 9 cell battery pack upgrade. That would be a guaranteed lumen king.

Cheesehead, yes, I may be off on my guestimations, and the required current for the relevant push may be lower. I estimated high to be consevative on the run-time approximation. My guessing was educated by the 1160 in actual use in the MC. As for your take on NiCad vs. NiMH, I'm pretty sure that you are behind the times. It used to be that the NiMH didn't like much more than a 2C disharge, and that NiCads were the clear choice for high current applications such as power tools. However, even back then, the NiMH had much better energy density than NiCad. Now, however, you see NiMH batteries with internal resistances as low as NiCads and with SERIOUS current delivery capability. Like 20 or 30 amps, for example. But we're not talking anything more than 5 amps and probably more like 3-4 amps at most. The current NiMH batteries, including the ones in the stock TL battery pack, will deliver this easily, without even having to get into specifically designed high current NiMH batteries. Take a look at Ginseng's 1200 bulb-lumen mag mod where he uses, . . .wait for it . . . .NiMH batteries. Maha 2200 AA to be specific. You see, this is why the TL, which is smaller than the MC and operating at a higher voltage, will be able to handle this mod and dethrone the MC. Higher energy density, my friend. Not as high as Lithium, but still way better than NiCad by a factor of 2 or more. Your money is not well placed on the MC. It's already maxed out with the 1160. That's as good as it gets, and even if nothing else pans out, the 1274 will put it very near the MC in a smaller, better package. Why better? Tactically correct rear switch for one, and NON-focusable head for two. Read why TL chose not to have a focusing light. It's all there on the web site and it makes good, good sense. However that may be, unless we have to resort to potting the lamps into reflectors, each person will be able to set the focus the way he wants it, and every time he grabs the TL, the focus will be right there. No need to use two hands to put it to where it should be. Just my own preference here, but a focusable beam is a gimmick and is undesireable in a serious light. YMMV, of course.

uhammer, Silverfox is correct: you will need a glass lens, and flashlightlens.com has them and the shattering problem has been solved, if my own and others experience is anything to go on. I carry my TL w/ UCL in my back pack all the time and it has never shattered.


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## js (Feb 21, 2004)

cheesehead,

Oh, regarding the non-linearity of light-bulb resistance, I just remembered that tests done on the WA 1185 over its practical operating range 9.2-10.8 volts show that the V-I graph is *a straight line*. This means that it has a constant resistance when it is up to operating voltage and current. I think this is typical of these bulbs. When it first is turned on, the resistance is much lower and it draws a big current, but when it warms up it acts a lot like a resistor. However, even when "warmed up" dropping the voltage into a low range, say half of nominal, would probably take you into the non-linear resistance range. But the important thing is that, no, for our purposes, I should NOT count on an increase in resistance with voltage increase. The resistance will stay more or less the same all the way until the lamp blows at which point it will take a serious spike upwards to something on the order of infinity. Now THAT's non-linear!


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## Psychomodo (Feb 21, 2004)

Thanks for all this info Jim./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Waiting patiently for next update./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## js (Feb 21, 2004)

The update is that I'm going to get a Carley 852 or two, and start emailing people like Kevin at batterystation.com about a 9 cell battey pack and chargers and group buys. I'm definitely going to try this 9 cell BP w/ WA1185 thing out and see what the results and costs will be. The KAN 1050 high current NiMH batteries are $1.70 each from www.batterystation.com which is $15.30 for the batteries, plus, say, $5 for wire, shrinkwrap, braids or bridges, and connector. So conservatively, say, $25 or less for the 10.8 volt battery pack. Not bad. Next hurdle will be the charger. Ah, March 10th seems so far away. I want my WA lamps! This is really getting exciting. Unless something totally unforseen comes about, I'm definitely going to be exploring this option (9 cell pack w/ 1185) because the high efficiency of the 1185 together with the high capacity (for their volume) of the KAN 2/3A high current 1050's leads me to suspect that this might just be the brightest TL possible. And hey, 20 minutes is plenty of runtime, right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## Illuminated (Feb 21, 2004)

Hello All,

The stock TL charger is a constant-current charger using the LM317T set to deliver roughly 183mA (approx. 0.1C). Using a 9-cell pack, the 12V input would likely be a bit low for the LM317T to maintain full current regulation.

TL warranty aside, it would likely accept say 15-16 volt input, and changing a single resistor can increase the charge current. [1.25V/R=I] I would suggest selecting a current that would allow charging in say 7 to 9 hours (overnight), though the LM317T is rated up to 1.5A if properly heat-sinked.

I'm a fan of low-current charging because of the ability to easily build simple constant-current circuits based on the LM317, and because they are relatively battery-friendly as long as you don't leave 'em on the charger for 12 months at a time.

I've built several of these for different battery configs, and I use a meter to monitor battery voltage. I usually terminate charging when reaching 1.4V/cell.

As for fast charging, well, it would be nice to have - but I can live w/o it for the time being.

Building a true smart charger (delta V w/temp monitoring) is much more involved than I have the time to invest in, but that's just me.

So, who'll be the first to put the WA1274/Carley reflector in a TL? I have these items, but I'm more inclined to put 'em in my 4D Mag w/6 x 1/2D Powerstreams...you know - a big light should make big light, right?

Have fun - John


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## js (Feb 21, 2004)

Illuminated,

So if I understand you correctly, all we need to do is to find a new wall wart that will deliver 15-16 volts and then change a single resistor in the LM317T charging circuit for the proper .1C charging current. Have I got this right?

Thank you so much! This is invaluable info for me. Which resistor is it and what is the best way to determine the proper resistance? Is it as simple as your formula above:

.1C = 105 mA (for the KAN 1050) = 1.25/R

thus R = 11.9 Ohms. Is this right?

So at the moment I am looking to change a 6.83 Ohm resistor. Yes?

Tell me more. Details. PM if you wish.

Also, the wall wart AC to DC unit should be able to provide what current to the LM317T ? Not much I would assume. 500 mA max current would be more than sufficient, I'm guessing.

This is AWESOME. This means that for the cost of a resistor and a wall wart we can mod the original charger to work. No dealing with the mechanical problem of mating to the charging contacts on the light.

John you are DA MAN. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


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## Illuminated (Feb 21, 2004)

Jim,

It's pretty much that simple. Let me check out a couple of things to be sure. Most wallwarts put out more than their stated voltage when not loaded with full current draw. It's possible that the stock wallwart/TL charger will charge a 9-cell batt pack. I happen to have one, so I can hook it up and see if it stays in redulation when fully charged at 1.4V/cell.

Hopefully I'll be able to do that today or tomorrow...

John


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## Illuminated (Feb 21, 2004)

OK,

On the TL charger...after a few quick tests, here's what I found out:

In stock form, my TL charger charges the TL at 187 mA. Wallwart voltage while charging was 14.3 Volts.

I measured the unloaded terminal voltage of my 9-cell NiMH battery at 12 volts. Connected to the TL charger, I measured only about 111 mA, and the reading was gradually falling off. This tells me that the LM317T circuit was not regulating current due to lack of sufficient input voltage from the TL's 12V wallwart. OK -

I scrounged up a 15 VDC/1A wallwart that measured an unloaded output voltage of just over 20 volts. Temporarily connected it to the TL charger, and it measured 18 volts while charging the 9-cell battery. Charging current was back up to 187 mA steady. So, there you have it - a wallwart rated at 15-18 VDC @ 500 mA is in order if you want to charge a 9-cell battery.

As for the resistor, there is a 6.8-ohm resistor located right alongside the LM317T on the TL charger circuit board. If you want to drop the charge current to about 108.7 mA, I suggest disconnecting one end of the existing 6.8-ohm resistor and adding a 4.7-ohm 1/2 watt resistor in series for 11.5-ohms total. There's plenty of room in there to do that.

One minor concern worth noting - there's an electrolytic input filter capacitor that has a 25V rating. Should be fine as is, but the extra cautious person may want to swap it for one with a higher voltage rating if using a higher voltage wallwart. Sorry, but I forgot to note the capacitance value while I was in there.

Hope this is what you were looking for...

John


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## cheesehead (Feb 21, 2004)

js, 

Thanks for the response. However, with regard to light bulb resistance, WA's own published web site data shows that if the voltage goes up 10%, current does not rise that much and thus bulb resistance is not constant This is for a slightly lower current bulb, but it also is rated 50 hours, so is an over-driven bulb. Eh, it's only about 10% and thus a minor point.

NiMH and NiCD, I understand the energy density differences, and I may soon have to give up on NiCD /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif. In the long haul, I worry pushed NiMH will not give you 300 recharge cycles, although as you state, the NiMH aren't being beaten all that much.

Finally, if you are replacing the bulb, reflector, batteries and charger, at what point is the Tigerlight no longer a Tigerlight? The MC mod is so easy, even a chimpanzee like myself can do it. Can other mag mods (i.e. upgrades) then claim to out-do the Tiger upgrade?

Eh, good thread, I want to see a new winner too. 

cheese


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## js (Feb 22, 2004)

cheesehead,

lamps are in general non-linear circuit elements, i.e. their resistance is not constant. The tests on the 1185 may not be representative of other WA lamps. Who knows, but in any case I am going by the WA re-rating formulas for the most part, or when they are absent, my guessing was informed by my past experience with them. Please feel free to post numbers which are more accurate in regards to pushing the 1164 or 1111. What do you think the current will be at 7.0-7.2 volts?

As for NiMH and recharge cycles, the latest cells I have looked at were rated for 1000 charges. Not bad at all.

And I must stress again that we are not even coming close to "pushing" the TL battery pack. 10 amps would probably do that. 4 amps won't.

Finally, I have to agree with you on the question of at what point a TL is no longer a TL. I was actually musing about that very question last night. Certainly, if all we have original is the shell, it's a mod and not an upgrade. However, the battery pack change to 9 cells is only ONE of the possibilities here, and even if it becomes my favorite idea, I will DEFINITELY be offering a simple WA bulb upgrade. This is a drop in upgrade to the light. I mean, we all change out the reflector and lamp every single time we replace a bad LA. Suppose TL comes out with a better lamp, which they plan on doing, is my TL no longer a TL because I've changed out the lamp and reflector?

In using a Carley 1940 reflector I am essentially using the same reflector geometry that TL uses. Both have almost identicle measurements. The main thrust of this is for me (with as much help as I can get--HELP! HELP! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) to do all the leg work and R&D and prototyping so that anyone can drop in the final WA/Carley lamp assembly and have a super bright TigerLight with reduced run time. My idea of making the assembly with a removeable bi-pin socket is so that people can replace the lamp without having to pay for a new reflector, and so that people can adjust the socket in the reflector to obtain the beam profile they desire. It will arrive all set to use, however, and a person could just leave it that way and insert and remove the bi-pin lamps in exactly the same way that they do with the MC.

But even regarding the total "upgrade" or mod to the 9.6 volt WA lamp and 9 cell battery pack, the appealing thing is keeping the same external light and charger (which many of us like a lot) and only having to buy a $25 battery pack, $10 wall wart/charger mod, and $15 lamp assembly (with a low $3 lamp replacement thereafter). So, in other words, for about $50 someone who owns a TigerLight, could rev it up to something brighter than a SF M6. It wouldn't really be a TL anymore, I suppose, and the simple drop in lamp/reflector mod is more appealing in many ways, but still, it's all in good fun.

Moving on, I will start looking for a cheap and suitable wallwart and order the supplies to make up a KAN 1050 2/3A 9 cell pack. This will keep me going until the WA and Carley orders come.

I also am going to take apart the stock pack to try to figure out exactly which 4/5A cell TL uses. I would like to make up a standard configuration pack for the TL that uses premium 4/5A cells if the stock pack isn't already using them. Each month seems to bring newer and better NiMH batteries.

And if there is any interest at all, I am willing to make up 9 and 6 cell battery packs for the TigerLight, as well as modified charging harnesses and wallwarts. Costs to be determined, but the figures I mentioned above are probably in the ball park.


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## brightnorm (Feb 22, 2004)

I'm interested! Any chance of a PM when/if you get things worked out to your satisfaction?

Thanks,
Brightnorm


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## js (Feb 22, 2004)

brightnorm,

I can notify you via PM if you want, or you can keep an eye on this thread for developments. Anyone who wants to will be able to get on the bandwagon. I will post a sign-up thread when I'm ready and put in orders to the relevant companies and start assembling and shipping. hmmm. I have a feeling I'm going to regret this /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

I may have to clothesline Ginseg into helping me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## js (Feb 22, 2004)

Illuminated,

Do you think that this wallwart will work:

powersupplydepot 

The price is right at any rate.


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## Illuminated (Feb 22, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
Illuminated,

Do you think that this wallwart will work:

powersupplydepot 

The price is right at any rate. 

[/ QUOTE ]

That should do just fine. With .9 amp rating, though, it'll be physically larger than a .5 amp rated unit. Price is right, though.

John


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## js (Feb 23, 2004)

Illuminated,

I took apart the charger and found the 6.8 ohm resistor and 100 uF 25V input filter capacitor. I can't thank you enough for this information. This is great. A few questions:

1. Do I need to stick with 1/2 watt resistors, or will 1/4 watt work just fine do you think?

2. What would be wrong with connecting the center terminals of a DPDT switch (via small flexible wires) across where the 6.8 ohm resistor was, and moving the 6.8 ohm resistor across one set of switch terminals, and putting a 12 ohm (or whatever I can get that is closest to 11.9) resistor across the other set. I have a DPDT mini-switch that will fit nicely underneath where the LM317T is, mounted to (and through) the case, of course. That way, a person could have both chargers at the flick of a switch without having to buy another $25 charging harness from TL. I assume that the LM317T would charge the 7.2 V pack with an input of 15 V, or would a person need to change wallwarts as well?

3. And couldn't a person use the 187 mA setting to "fast-er" charger the 9 cell pack for several hours, and then flick the switch to the 105 mA setting to trickle charge the batteries to full power at the .1C rate? If so, this would be a nice bonus to modifying the charger in this way.

4. I know you already said as much above, but being a cautious person I need reassurance: we can just leave the 100uF capacitor alone, right? I mean 25V is a high enough rating, yes? Under what conditions do you imagine a failure, or would you have to know the performance characteristics of the wallwart to really answer this quesiton?

Hope I'm not overloading you with questions. I was going to PM you about this stuff, but then I thought that maybe some people would like to hear about all of this, particularly in regards to the possibility of having the ability to charge either battery pack with the same charger.


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## Minjin (Feb 23, 2004)

Don't forget about the two easy mods: Changing out the stock LA for one from a streamlight. I still haven't tried the 35 LA, but the other one (was it 20 or 25?) had a very nice tight beam and same runtime as my stock lamp.

Mark


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## brightnorm (Feb 23, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
brightnorm,

I can notify you via PM if you want, or you can keep an eye on this thread for developments. Anyone who wants to will be able to get on the bandwagon. I will post a sign-up thread when I'm ready and put in orders to the relevant companies and start assembling and shipping. hmmm. I have a feeling I'm going to regret this /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

I may have to clothesline Ginseg into helping me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't regret it, just charge more! (oops, forget I said that). If it's not too much trouble a PM would be really helpful. Looking forward to your creations!

Brightnorm


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## Psychomodo (Feb 23, 2004)

Thanks for the update js and thanks to illuminated for his assistance. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## nikemboka (Feb 23, 2004)

Count me in. My TigerLight says bring em on. WAHOOO!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Illuminated (Feb 24, 2004)

Jim,

Some answers:

1)For 12-ohms, 1/4W resistor should be fine. Power is 1.25 volts squared divided by resistance. The stock 6.8-ohm works out close to 1/4 watt, so that's why I just suggested 1/2 watters.

2) Yes, that will work. That's exactly what I did with a similar homemade charger for 60/160mA setup for AA's. Also, TL charger will work fine on stock batt with 15V input.

3) Yes, that could be done. The 187 mA rate shouldn't bother the 9-cell pack so long as you don't leave it on forever.

4) Stock cap shouldn't be a problem. Potentially, voltage spikes (if present) coming out of the wallwart could damage the cap, but they'd likely have to be fairly high-energy spikes. I've seen small disc caps have their foil layers get pinholes punched through and shorts develope due to high voltage spikes, but I doubt there's a high risk of that happening here.

Later - John


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## Psychomodo (Feb 24, 2004)

Thought you might be interested in this email from Tigerlight I received today:

"We have been working with a manufacturer to upgrade our bulb. Unfortunately
the process has not proved successful yet because of durability issues.
Because the manufacturer did not deliver as expected we have been forced to
send out older generations of our lamp module. We will replace those lamp
modules with new ones when we receive them.

Thanks,
Eric Straddeck
TigerLight Inc."

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## coloradotim (Feb 24, 2004)

Eric hasn't written me back yet, so thanks for posting the email he sent you. 

I'm really curious about how this new bulb will perform. Obviously they're trying to make it brighter. I wonder if it will simply drain the batteries faster or if will be more efficient than the current bulb.


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## paulr (Feb 25, 2004)

Wow, just found this thread.

For charging the 9 cell pack, simplest is probably to just take the pack out of the light and use a universal charger like a Maha C777 or whatever the current model is. That does temperature sensing, delta V sensing, the whole bit.

I sort of had the impression that the TL charging base was just a transformer, and that there were some charging electronics in the light itself. If the charge contacts on the light just go directly to the battery (through a blocking diode one hopes), then the stock charger can be modded with a fancier circuit, of course.


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## js (Feb 25, 2004)

coloradotim,

The new generation TL LA will NOT drain the batteries faster, it will simply be brighter and more efficient. TL believes that an hour runtime is a minimum for LEO use during a ten hour shift. I'm sure they're right.

paulr,

Taking the battery pack out of a TigerLight is anything but simple, and is not the sort of thing you would want to do everyday, nor was it designed to be done that often. The battery pack is designed to stay in the light for years at a time (until it needs to be replaced). The light is not designed so that you could have two packs and one light, for example. And yes, the electronics is in the harness and not in the light. TL is planning on offering a fast charger at some point in the future, but I don't know when.


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## js (Feb 25, 2004)

cheesehead,

You are right about my 1111 7.2 volt current being too high. If the resistance stays constant, we would expect the 1111 to draw 4 amps, not 5. Sorry. This equates to a runtime of 27 minutes. The 1164 will draw no more than 4 amps as well, so same runtime there.

Minjin,

Tell me about the SL LA mods. Are they direct drop ins? How bright are they? Runtime? Beam profile? Etc. I am interested in ANY option. I want to see what we can do with and for the TL. Bring it on. How much are the SL LA's?

UPDATE: More parts on order. Can't wait! Also, I measured the battery pack and the i.d. of the light, and there is enough room to step up to 18mm fat A cells, such as the HR 4/5FAUP 1950 mAH. Just a thought for replacing the standard pack with another 6 cell NiMH pack.


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## Psychomodo (Feb 25, 2004)

Keep it goin' js /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## Minjin (Feb 26, 2004)

The Streamlight lamps are a direct drop in. The come from the SL-20 and SL-35. A search should show my original post from when I discovered this compatibility.

Mark


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## js (Feb 26, 2004)

Minjin,

Thanks, I'll check it out.


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## Psychomodo (Feb 27, 2004)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## js (Feb 27, 2004)

OK, I now have a Streamlight SL-35X lamp module comming my way. At $12, this is even cheaper than the stock TL LA. I spent a lot of frustrating time trying to find out where/if/when/how this combo has worked for someone, but remarkably I came up short. I found the thread minjin was talking about, and info about the use of the SL-20X, but nada on the SL-35X. I even found a post by Ginseng asking if anyone had tried this combo, and *there were no replies* to his post. The thread in its entirety consisted of 1 post: Ginseng's. Minjin, have YOU tried this combo? How is it?

At this point, for a couple of reasons, I have some worries about the type and quality of the cells in the TL battery pack. _I do not know if these worries are groundless or not_ but I will definitely be building at least one new 6 cell NiMH battery pack for my TL, if not two. If the TL BP gets dragged down in voltage when trying to power the WA 01111 or the SL-35X, due to a design that leans more towards capacity than current delivery, it really should be replaced as part of the upgrade. If the Sanyo HR4/5FAUP 1950's won't fit, then the KAN 4/5A 1800's will, and either of these is, as Ginseng would say, overkill for a current requirement of 5 amps or less, so they will maintain their voltage under load. Also, both of these have a similar mAH capacity to the stock pack. Certainly the older NiMH batteries were not up to 4C discharges. We will see.

I am also ordering the KAN 2/3A 1050's for the 9 cell pack, along with the 15V wallwarts, for the TL+ upgrade (w/ WA1185). Time seems to be moving so slowly; I am anxious to try these things out.


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## Minjin (Feb 28, 2004)

I see no reason why the SL35X lamp won't work. It should be a better, brighter beam but its unknown as to how bad it'll affect the runtime. I like the SL20X beam but its just not quite as bright as the ugly stock TL lamp. I've been meaning to try the 35 and just haven't gotten around to it. Just like I have a 1274 bulb and a spare TL lamp (the old bilobed one) to mess with and just haven't gotten around to potting it. Too many other projects. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Let us know how it turns out.

Mark


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## js (Mar 1, 2004)

I did a more accurate measurement of the i.d. of the TL, as well as a calculation of the size of a HR4/5FAUP 1950 pack (18.1 mm cell dia. vs. 17.0) and the calculations show that a 4/5FAUP pack would be .7 mm too big, so I didn't order those cells. Only the KAN 1800's and 1050's. Too bad. That extra bit of runtime would have been nice.


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## Psychomodo (Mar 3, 2004)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## K5Guy (Mar 4, 2004)

JS,

Have you tried your sl35 lamp yet. I got mine in today and I must say its AWESOME. The beam is perfect, not that the TL beam bothered me, and very bright. Comparing it to my MAG-WA it is not quite as bright but the nice beam puts it over the top for me. I will try to get some beamshots up asap.


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## js (Mar 4, 2004)

K5Guy and all others,

Yes, I did get my SL-35X lamp module, and I was very excited! I hooked it up and turned it on, and /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif it just wasn't much brighter. I must have switched back and forth a dozen times trying to figure out the difference and how much brighter it was, if it was brighter. I concluded that it was somewhat brighter, but that the throwing power was about the same. Mainly, the beam just had more spill light, to my eyes. I would love it if you posted some beam shots, K5Guy. Keep in mind that I'm pretty sure I got lucky with my TL LA. It seems to be one of the good ones, although I don't yet have a lux meter to check it out.

On to some details: first, the 35X LA is larger than the TL LA. The 35X is 2.11 inches in diameter vs. the 2.00 inches of the TL reflector. Also, the 35X is about .1 inches _deeper_ than the TL LA, and thus the pins are even closer to the battery pack than ever. In my set up the 35X pins were not bent very much, but I did have to be careful of how much wire I pulled up. Things worked best when I kept as much as I could pushed down along the space between the battery pack and the body of the light. Even so, the extra diameter prevented the reflector from seating down as deeply in the head and prevented the bezel from screwing down all the way, leaving about the thickness of the o-ring between body and bezel. I doubt that the light in this configuration is water resistant/splash proof.

I left my TL on the charger all last night, and took it into work with me. I measured the voltage at 8.43 Volts an hour off the charger, which is right where it should be. Next I turned on the light (with the 35X installed) and WHAM! the voltage dropped immediately to 6.5 Volts and continued to fall to 6.35 over the next 10 seconds. I will get around to measuring the current draw at this voltage shortly, but 6.35 volts equates to 1.05 volts per cell, for fully charged cells. This is not good. Not good at all. 1.0 or 0.9 volts per cell is often considered the end of cycle cut-off for NiMH.

So this can mean only one thing: my TL battery pack is not up to delivering much over 2 amps. It is possible that I have a bad pack, but I very much doubt that as I get a full 66 minute runtime and I read the proper off the charger voltage (8.4). I suspect that the TL NiMH pack is optimized for a 1.7 amp current draw maximum run-time, which is great for using the standard LA, but bad news for anyone wanting to increase the output.

K5Guy, do you have a volt meter? If so I would appreciate hearing what your TL measures under the 35X load.

In consideration of the above, I think that it is clear that this project will require replacement of the stock battery pack with a high-rate NiMH cell. The best one that I know of at the moment is the KAN 1800 4/5A cell, which gets very high marks from two experts I've talked with, one of them being Ginseng. The capacity is about the same to boot, so we won't lose anything by switching to a custom pack (other than money). The 1800's cost around $3 ea. so we're only talking on the order of $20-25 for me to make up the packs, but unless my pack is strangely defective, it doesn't look as if there is a way around replacing the stock battery pack. Sorry, guys.


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## js (Mar 4, 2004)

OK. I tested the current as well as the voltage under the 35X load. At 6.2 volts (and dropping!) the 35X was drawing 3.22 amps from the battery which is something like 19.5 watts, and around a 2C discharge. The standard lamp draws 1.7 amps at 7.1 volts, or just over 12 watts, but it's a pretty efficient lamp I've been told. At any rate, a 19 watt lamp-output should be noticeably brighter, and it is brighter, but not much brighter. Using the WA re-rating formulas, the re-rated candlepower should be 1.186 times as much at 6.3 volts as it was at 6.0 volts. I think I remember someone saying that the 35X put out 400 bulb-lumens, which would yield 474 lumens, which is probably something like 360 torch-lumens, or a 28 percent increase over the stock LA. Again, from what I've read, a difference of 50 percent is sort of a minimum to really notice a significant increase in brightness.

However, if I had a battery pack that would maintain 1.15 volts under load, which is a very conservative number, the re-rating formula yields a 63 percent increase over the 6.0 volt figures, a 75 percent increase over the stock LA: 650 bulb-lumens and 490 torch lumens. The 1800's shouldn't have any problem maintaining 7.2+ volts at a current draw of 3.5 amps, or even 4 or 5 amps.

Also, the 35X wouldn't be too hard to turn down on a lathe, I don't think. I may try that later today. It depends on how good a grib the chuck can get on the small cylindrical section at the bottom of the reflector (where the lamp is). And if I can trim it to 2.00 inches, it should make a much better fit in the TL. So this is certainly an option, even as is with a standard battery pack, but (1) it's probably beating up on the batteries, and (2) it's not much brighter. Given the need for turning the 35X down and the need for a custom battery pack, I think it makes more sense to pursue the WA/Carley option, both the 6 cell and the 9 cell TL+. Comments or opinions or questions?

Also, cheesehead, my apologies. It looks as if this IS pushing the stock battery pack, just as you worried it would. Good call.


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## Ginseng (Mar 4, 2004)

Excellent report, Jim. Good reading.

Wilkey


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## cheesehead (Mar 4, 2004)

Nice updates, 

Stock battery packs always seem to be the weak link. I have a pack of NiCDs that heat up at .5 C (which is pathetic) and cheap NiMHs that do great at 1 C, so my idea that NiCDs are always better is over (in part, thanks to you). Enjoyed this thread very much.

cheese


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## Ginseng (Mar 4, 2004)

Jim,

It has been my experience that the stock packs of ANY major brand rechargeable are well-matched to the OEM LA but become woefully inadequate for anything even marginally more demanding. I'm sure this is a question of pure economics. Cells which are neither high-capacity nor high-drain are cheap but perform well in a very narrow operating envelope. 

As for the current draw, at 3.22A, the KAN1800 should deliver at least 1.21V/cell at 50% capacity. That means 7.26V solid. However you do the math, that's going to be one bright torch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I am sure that if you decide to sell kits consisting of turned-down SL-35X LAs and KAN1800 packs, you would get a tremendous response. This would be the TL analog to the SuperMagWA60 in all respects except runtime.

Note on the pins, since you're playing. If they are too long, see if there might be enough length to take a mm or two off the ends and still maintain engagement in the receivers. 

Wilkey


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## Ginseng (Mar 4, 2004)

BTW,
The Streamlight Rechargeables Manual lists the SL-35X LA as a 20W unit. This comes right in the range of your 3.22A current measurement. With the stock D-cells, I don't doubt they'd deliver better voltage to the LA.
Wilkey


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## js (Mar 4, 2004)

Ginseng,

Thanks for the suggestion on the pins. I think that the 35X would work fine, as there is only a .1 inch difference in length. Actually slightly less. 1.448 vs. 1.411 inches when measured to the outside of where the pins stick through. But then the 35X has a potting bulge, whereas the TL LA does not. The pins are both about as long, and on neither will the connectors completely cover the pins, so cutting them down slightly will help. The biggest help would be to turn down the diameter of the outer rim to 2.00 inches. Then the bezel should turn home and seal against the o-ring, and I think the pins will only get bent very slightly. Nothing to worry about, especially if you leave them that way when you take the LA out for some reason and then put it back.

Incidentally, as part of the charger modification for the 9 cell TL+, I want to find a kinder, gentler spring to put in the harness! That bad boy is fierce. Unnecessarily so, in my opinion, but I'd be sure to test for good contact in a variety of situations. This modification would go along with the switch to select for 6 or 9 cell pack, and the necessary extra resistor and wiring and soldering. Plus the 15V wallwart. I haven't looked into replacement spring options yet, but even a slightly less powerful spring would help. It can be scarry snapping the light into the harness sometimes. I think I remember K5Guy telling me that it took off his index finger and he had to have it reattached. Very painful. Tragic, really. IIRC, of course. K5Guy, is that right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## js (Mar 8, 2004)

I have received the batteries and I am currently gearing up to start building the KAN 1800 4/5A hi-current TL battery packs. Thanks to Ginseng and the "how to" tutorial on the www.dynamoelectrics.com site, I know what I need to learn and do in order to make some really top quality packs. Unfortunately, it is not an easy thing to do, and is engaging most of my attention and effort at the moment. I think that I finally have the right soldering iron/tip setup and hope to be satisfied with the quality of the end to end solder joint sometime tonight or tomorrow. All the joints that I have made have stood up to a stiff slap into the palm of my hand, but when I broke some of them apart, I felt the actual contact area of the bond was not as good as I wanted it. I will continue practicing on the stock 4/5A cells until I have it down to a science.

Anyone who has been part of Ginseng's custom battery pack offers should send him a special thank-you and some extra money. Trust me when I tell you that this is NOT an easy thing to do well, and it is obvious to me why all stock battery packs are done with spot welded tabs. It is tricky to perform this end to end soldering, but nothing so complex that you couldn't do it yourself with the right equipment and determination. Just takes practice, a good hot soldering iron with the right tip, and a jig to keep the two cells in line. And of course, there is the added pressure of not over-heating the battery. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

When I have my KAN 1800 pack assembled and charged, I will report back on how the SL-35X performs at 7.2 volts instead of the 6.2-6.3 that it was getting from the stock pack.


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## Psychomodo (Mar 8, 2004)

Thanks for the update Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif.

Today I received my Tigerlight FBOP and I am very impressed. I can't wait to see it perform even better /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Colin


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## Illuminated (Mar 8, 2004)

I'm not sure if I got a "good" SL3X lamp assembly, but when I swapped it with the TL LA in my 4D Mag mod (6 x 1/2D Powerstreams, 7.2V), it put out more overall light than the TL LA, but was not quite as "white", and didn't seem to throw much farther...

John


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## js (Mar 9, 2004)

John,

The large difference that you noticed (and that I did not) is due to the 1/2D PowerStream batteries that you were using. As I mentioned above the stock TL battery pack is not up to the current demand of a SL-35X run at 7.2 volts. The TL BP can only keep 6.3 volts into this load, at best. Or actually, I should say that that is what I observed using my own TL. Perhaps my pack is not as good as it should be, but I doubt it, because it measures the correct voltage off the charger and gets the full 1.1 hour runtime.

And, of course, I'm sure that there ARE differences from one 35X LA to another, but that is not really in play in this case.

As for my efforts at battery pack making, I am now completely satisfied with the quality of my end to end solder joints. I did six perfect ones last night.  It feels good, let me tell you. The full + contact area soldered into the - terminal and a good strong connection. This is definitely the way to make the best battery pack you can.

Unfortunately, in the process of doing all of this, I removed the shrink wrap from the batteries and must order some smaller size shrink wrap. All I have right now is the larger stuff for the final wrapping of the whole pack. I hate waiting for vital supplies when I'm on a roll.


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## Psychomodo (Mar 9, 2004)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## Illuminated (Mar 9, 2004)

Jim,

I was driving the 6-volt Sl35X _at 7.2 volts in the 4D Mag mod_ from six Powerstream 1/2D's, not in the Tigerlight...

John


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## js (Mar 10, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Illuminated said:*
Jim,

I was driving the 6-volt Sl35X _at 7.2 volts in the 4D Mag mod_ from six Powerstream 1/2D's, not in the Tigerlight...

John 

[/ QUOTE ]

John, I know that! That's what I was saying. Weren't you saying that you saw a big difference (with this 4D mag mod setup) between the stock TL LA (7.2 V) and the over-driven 35X (6.0 V nominal driven to 7.2 V)? Thus, one would expect the same difference when running the 35X in the TL, BUT the stock TL battery pack only drives the 35X at 6.2 V. Thus, one does not see that much of a difference in that scenario.

Am I misunderstanding you or are we saying the same thing?


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## js (Mar 10, 2004)

Update: my shrink wrap is on the way, my Carley reflectors are on the way, and my WA lamps are on the way (or should be!) so I should be getting into the thick of things by the weekend or early next week. I'm very excited!

Also, I used the WA re-rating formulas to do a recalculation of the currents, runtimes, output, and lifetimes, of the various WA lamp candidates. Here are the most accurate guesses I have yet posted:

1274___2.77 A___40 min___553 lumens___40 hrs
1111___3.70 A___29 min___880 lumens___11 hrs
1164___3.63 A___30 min___571 lumens___280 hrs

1185___3.36 A___18 min___1233 lumens__12 hrs

Remeber that the 1185 will require the 9 cell 2/3A battery pack, but for 1233 lumens, isn't it worth it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Ginseng (Mar 10, 2004)

Yes. Yes it is. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey


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## Illuminated (Mar 10, 2004)

Sorry Jim, my bad... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif

What I was saying is that my SL35X LA did put out more overall light, but wasn't what I'd call a dramatic improvement over the TL, especially considering the run time penalty. I put the TL LA back in until I get that Carley/1274 combo set up...

I didn't even bother to try the SL LA in the TL, because I figured the stock TL batt would be stressed heavily with the increased load.

Your TL battery upgrade sounds pretty good, though. Nice work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

John


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## Psychomodo (Mar 10, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*


1185___3.36 A___18 min___1233 lumens__12 hrs

Remeber that the 1185 will require the 9 cell 2/3A battery pack, but for 1233 lumens, isn't it worth it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Y_E_SSSSSSSS /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


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## K5Guy (Mar 16, 2004)

JS,

Whats the latest on the TigerLight upgrade? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


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## js (Mar 16, 2004)

K5Guy,

Glad you asked, because *WE ARE IN BUISINESS, PEOPLE!!!*

Yes! I am so psyched!

So, I got my Carley and WA orders, and finally got my shrink wrap Saturday, and a decent heat gun yesterday. I was working over the weekend, so that ate into my time. I was itching to work on this project in a bad way, I can tell you. I finished the Kan 1800 6 cell battery pack last night. I probably should have let it charge overnight first before doing anything, but I couldn't help it. I just had to try it out. Also, each cell was measuring more than 1.2 volts, so I figured they were more than half charged.

First thing I did was put the standard TL LA in and test it out. Keep in mind here that all my evaluations which are to follow are most definitely subjective. Plus my eyes were subjected to some serious brightness along the way and I was so sun-blind at one point I had to use my Firefly to read the DMM! But here it goes.

I think that even the standard TL LA was brighter than with the stock pack. I have measured voltage versus time under load with the stock pack and even straight off the charger, it drops quickly to 7.0-7.1 volts under load. The Kan pack was still 7.2 volts+ under this load. I could have been imagining it, as I say, but the stock LA seemed slightly brighter and whiter.

Next, I threw in the SL-35X. WO HO HO HO! Dang if that thing wasn't somewhere in the neighborhood of twice as bright (subjective eval, remember--plus I was high from solder fumes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ). It was kickin bright, and as Ginseng promised, the Kan's held up under this current load like it was nothing. Voltage under load still 7.2 volts.

So, of course, I had to try the WA 1274. Unfortunately, it wasn't held in place in a reflector, so it's impossible to say how bright it was. Plus, I blinded myself by getting a face full of the bare bulb. But still, I stuck the lamp and TL leads up into a smooth Carley 1940 and tried to move things around to get a decent beam. It was certainly bright. It was certainly white. And it was certainly brighter than the stock LA, but I think maybe the SL-35X was brighter still. Or perhaps it was all those spots in my eyes.

Deep breath. Now for the most important test. The WA 1111. Drum roll please. To blow up or not to blow up. NO! It was freakin' smokin' bright. And hot. That 1940 started to heat up fast in my hand. Bright. Very bright. (Again, keep in mind this was subjective. I am certain that it was brighter than a mini-mag, but that's all I'll stake my life on). I kept it on for a couple minutes, but started to get concerned about the batteries, plus I had skipped supper and was really hungry. So I put the TL on the charger and went to get something to eat. Later I cleaned up, although I dearly wanted to be able to go out and field test the SL-35X. Ah well, nothing like a trickle charger to slow you down.

The RF1940 will work nicely in the TL, but it will need a little lathe work first. (More on this later) Plus, holding the WA lamps in the setscrew reflector turned out to be more involved than I had at first imagined, but no worries, I have a solution. It would be a shame to have to throw away a 1940 every time a lamp burned out. These are nice, nice reflectors, and the vacuum metalizing is much more scratch resistant than the stock TL reflector. A Q-tip and rubbing alcohol didn't bother it one bit. Also, the 1940 is SOLID. It's a quality piece of work.

Soon, I will build the Kan 1050 9 cell pack and get some WA lamps in holders so they can be placed in the reflectors. Much more to come over the next several days and weekend.

Hope this piques your interest.


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## Ginseng (Mar 16, 2004)

Very exciting stuff Jim! Just a note regarding the KAN cells. When I received mine, they had enough juice to light up the 12V100W hi-output bulb but not to blow it. Once it was cycled 3 times, it was easily able to blow that bulb coming fresh off the charger. The WA01111 just may blow on a fresh pack. Hey, that's the price for fun...I blew a very special $6 MC bulb last night. 

Looking forward with anticipation to your further exploits, especially the WA01185 on 9xKAN1050. 

Wilkey


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## js (Mar 16, 2004)

Ginseng,

Thanks for the warning. I will be cycling my pack at least three times over the next three days, so I'll report back.

On the reflector front, the RF1940 has a VERY large back end (where the set screw is, and where the lamp goes). So large, in fact, that it only just barely fits inside the rubber hose of the TL. So, I'll need to turn that down to something reasonable, e.g. .700" or less. Then, the flat rim of the 1940 causes it to stick up above the level of flashlight head, whereas the stock LA fits down inside the head slightly. The diameters are the same, I'll just need to turn off that flat rim and make it slanted. Also, I'll need to turn down the outside of the reflector to mate with the turned down rear nub. This will require some experimentation to find out what works with the rubber hose to provide the optimum upward force, not too strong, not too weak. Once I find the right geometrey it should only take a half an hour or less of lathe time per reflector. (I hope).

Holding the WA lamps in the reflector is going to be a bit more complicated, because with the lamp at the right focal position, the set screw turns into the lower part of the glass of the lamp, so I can't hold the lamp in place with a fixture that grabs the wires. Plus, if I did that it would force the TL connectors downwards, and there really isn't any space to waste in this area. At the moment, I am planning on potting the lamps into small 3/8" o.d. aluminum rings (sections of aluminum tubing), with the wires sticking out the bottom and the majority of the lamp sticking out the top. This is also good for the thermal expansion and contraction--aluminum to aluminum. The potting compound will be elastic enough to tolerate this: either RTV 106, or cotronics high temp epoxy 4538N. The 106 is significantly cheaper, but I'm not sure how well it will work.

Ginseng, if you or any of your cohorts have a suggestion for a potting compound, please let me know via post or PM.


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## Psychomodo (Mar 16, 2004)

Wooo Hooo Hooo.... I'm getting excited /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## js (Mar 17, 2004)

It was stormy and snowy here last night so I declined to field test my Kan pack and SL-35X, but I did cycle the batteries and do a heat test with the 35X. The head of the light gets hot, but not too hot to hold, and I am more certain that the 35X run in the 7.2V TL is around twice as bright, in terms of total output and hotspot, as the stock LA. I haven't tested the current draw yet. More on this soon.

I have also been investigating the lamp pin to battery pack spacing, and there is a decent amount of space there. The rubber hose is not sacred or anything. We could cut it down slightly or replace it with a more pliable hose. I mean, what is easier: doing sensitive lathe work to get just the right backside reflector profile, or simply cutting down a rubber hose? The answer is obvious. I will put as simple a transition on the backside of the reflector as is appropriate (straight taper) and then modify the rubber hose. I have to agree with K5Guy on this one, that thing can be a bit too much sometimes. Plus, the stack of three Kan 1050's is going to be slightly longer than the 1800's, which in turn were slightly longer than the stock batteries. I saved space in the top and bottom caps (.063 or so each), however, so that the Kan 1800 pack has the same overall length as the stock pack. But no matter what, the 9 cell 1050 pack will be a couple mm longer. Still plenty of space; no bent lamp pins or anything. Oh, yeah, and the RF1940 profile will leave us a little extra space as well, when compared to the stock reflector. So it's all workable, but will need to be fiddled with. I certainly would like a kinder, gentler turn down of the bezel ring.

And on that note, I still want to look into replacing the charging harness spring. Also, I have the 15VDC wallwarts on the way to me, and will be modding my charging harness so that I can throw a toggle switch to select 6 cell trickle charge, or 9 cell trickle charge. Yes, that's right, for those who forgot, the 9 cell TL+ upgrade will be completely reversible: put in either pack and the appropriate lamp, and select the right switch position on the charger, and you're good to go. A big "thank you" here goes to Illuminated for his info on the LM317T and the TL charging circuit. John, you rock! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## K5Guy (Mar 17, 2004)

JS,

Your work is very impressive. You have inspired me to build a Kan pack for my TL. Believe it or not I think I will be happy with the Kan/SL35X combo. Well, at least for a while /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Did you hack apart your TL battery pack for the harness connector? Any details or lessons learned on building this pack would be much appreciated. 

I can't wait for the 9 cell pack report...although it will probably lead to me spending some more money on flashlight parts /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## js (Mar 18, 2004)

Alright,

Let me tell you, these Kan 1800's are REALLY starting to flex their muscles. I went outside last night for some field testing with the SL-35X and fully charged pack, and I was very, very happy with the results. This combo is easily twice as bright, which probably means it is putting out more than 500 lumens; like maybe 750? I don't know but I went out along the back dirt farm road into the fields and when I was nicely into the dark, I turned on the light and it lit up the entire road for hundreds and hundreds of feet. It was unbelievable! Not because I've never seen anything really bright, but because I wasn't expecting this much brightness after using the 35X with the stock pack. I played for a bit and went back inside to see how the 1800's would hold up under load. 7.5 volts! Not even slouching. Of course, this was with a nearly fresh pack (field testing was maybe 3-5 minutes of burn time). Awesome. These Kan 1800's are awesome.

K5Guy, I would be happy to PM or post with all the details if you want to build your own pack, but if you've never done it before, I can almost guarantee you that your first pack won't be up to the high quality standards that you probably want. The end to end soldering alone will take a while to master. Plus you may have to invest a significant amount of money into tools and supplies, depending on what you already have.

In short, I did hack up the stock pack to use the 9 volt connector, but it did not take solder joints to my liking. The original metal strap connectors were rivited in along with the + and - 9V nubs. I was not happy with it at all, so I used one of the high quality Keystone 9 volt harness I ordered from Allied electronics for just such a situation. Also, you'll need to fashion a new end cap that is much thinner than the .063 fiber board of the stock pack, and figure out a good way to secure the 9 volt connector to the top of the pack and make the electrical connections, which is actually very tricky, because the + and - terminals are close to, but not exactly, right over the + and - ends of the battery stack. For my first pack, I simply shrunk wraped and kapton taped the connector in place, but this was a matter of expediency and I will re-do it at some point, and do it differently on my next packs (pot it in place.)

Also, believe it or not securing the three stacks together so that they are straight and parallel is not trivial either. Not hard, but it'll slow you up a bit.

Anyway, enough on that. PM me for more.

OR, you could buy a battery pack from me. If there is enough interest I will be making a run of the Kan 1800 battery packs. I have a couple details to get right before I declare my packs fit to have my name on them, but I should have them cleared up to my satisfaction before the batteries get to me.

Also, I can offer the SL-35X lamp modules, with ground down rims to fit nicely into the TL. Again, this is tricky to do. At first, I tried to put it on a lathe, but it's just too small a nub, which is tapered to make things even more fun (no good grip for lathe chuck or collet). It slipped out as I was trimming the rim, and the bottom of the potting was dammaged so that light shines through from underneath now. So then I tried the belt sander, and this, of course, worked, but as I was flattening the face of the rim, something caught and it dented in a section of the reflector, which I undented, as much as I could. So my 35X works, but is a lot the worse for wear.

The Kan/SL-35X combo will make you VERY happy, and will tide many people over until the WA/Carley offerings.

Price. Now that I can not nail down at the moment. I am thinking of charging the cost of the batteries, connector, wires, and shrink wrap plus $15 to cover my time (significant) and the cost of miscellaneous supplies. This would come to something on the order of $35-$40. And then shipping on top of that.

The SL-35X lamp modules I could offer for cost + $2 (to cover shipping to me and the chance that I mess one of them up and have to eat the cost). Plus shipping if not purchased with a Kan pack.

Also, I'll be trying to get this setup out to S4MadMan so he can do one of his famous Review threads.

This will all take some time, but not too much. A couple, three weeks until delivery, depending on the number of packs people want. I will stop at fifteen packs for this first build run.

The packs will be guaranteed by me for a year, including a 7 day satisfaction guarantee. You don't like it, send it back and I'll refund your money, less shipping. I'll guarantee that the SL-35X lamp modules will light up when you get them, but I have no idea how long they will take being over-driven at 7.2 volts. Buyer beware.

Consider this a feeler thread for the moment. Is there any interest?


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## Ginseng (Mar 18, 2004)

Jim,

Outstanding. I see a very special S4MadMan comparo coming up. As for the packs, I completely understand what you're experiencing and look forward to such an exciting upgrade coming out for the TL. The price you quoted would be an exceptional bargain.

The SL LAs all appear to be well "under driven" at their spec voltage. I would expect them to last for at least 50 hours pushed to this level.

Nicely done!

Wilkey


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## Ross (Mar 18, 2004)

JS - Consider me interested!! Excellent work and a very interesting read.


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## Harrkev (Mar 18, 2004)

What would the new lamp do with the existing battery pack??

I am interested in a batt pack and/or lamp assembly

I assume that I would need to replace the plastic lens before modding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## js (Mar 18, 2004)

Harrkev,

The SL-35X LA with the stock pack will be slightly brighter and whiter and with perhaps a somewhat nicer beam, but will be drawing 3+ amps and dragging the pack voltage down to 6.2 or so volts. This means it will heat up the batteries in a hurry and will cost you big in the runtime department, and for not much more lumens. No, with a stock pack the stock LA is best.

And, yes, you will absolutely need to get a glass lens from www.flashlightlens.com. The 35X runs seriously hot at 7.2 volts. I still haven't measured the current draw yet. Dang. I'll do that tonight. Also, I will check to see if a fully cycled and charged Kan pack will blow the WA 1111. Stay tuned.


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## SilverFox (Mar 18, 2004)

Hello Jim,

Does the improved battery pack require an improved charger?

Tom


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## Frame57 (Mar 18, 2004)

Sign me up for two Lamp assemblies and a battery pack please!


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## js (Mar 18, 2004)

Silverfox,

No. It trickle charges just fine on the stock charger. The 9 cell pack will require a modified charging harness, but this 6 cell pack is a great match for the stock charger, which trickles at 183 mA, which means the Kan 1800's will charge in just under 10 hours. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Frame57,

Just getting a feel for things at the moment. I will open up a thread in B/S/T when/if there is enough interest and when I have refined my pack design. I want anyone who buys anything I make to be very, very pleased. I want all the details right inside and out. I'm obsessive about quality.

Also, keep in mind everyone, that I will definitely be offering more than one build run if there is enough interest. If you want to wait and hear the buyer reviews (and see S4MadMan's Review) then no worries! Hold off and check things out. It'll take more than one run of packs to burn me out. I'm just getting warmed up, and it's a heck of a lot of fun. There is much more to come. I just figured that I was close to a point where I could actually offer a substantial upgrade (I'm calling it phase 1) for those who are itching for a Super-TL. Plus, K5Guy was asking about building his own pack, so I figured now was the time to put out a feeler for pack building and modded SL-35X.


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## Psychomodo (Mar 18, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
...you could buy a battery pack from me. If there is enough interest I will be making a run of the Kan 1800 battery packs...
Also, I can offer the SL-35X lamp modules, with ground down rims to fit nicely into the TL...

The Kan/SL-35X combo will make you VERY happy, and will tide many people over until the WA/Carley offerings...
Consider this a feeler thread for the moment. Is there any interest? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes please Jim. I'll take a pack and a couple of lamp modules. This will "tide me over" until the WA/Carley mod is available. I am happy to Paypal you today if you need some funds for the purchase of the "raw ingredients"!
(I am assuming that posting to the UK is acceptable to you - I will, of course, pay whatever additional costs there are).


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## js (Mar 18, 2004)

Psychomodo,

No problem, but no need to PP. I can float lots of money on my CC, and prefer to do that to holding onto people's hard earned cash. That way if I have to take a little extra time to get things right, I won't feel guilty. Shipping to UK is fine. Or at least I assume it is. There isn't any restriction on NiMH batteries is there?


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## Psychomodo (Mar 19, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
...Shipping to UK is fine. Or at least I assume it is. There isn't any restriction on NiMH batteries is there? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No restrictions in UK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Thanks Jim
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif
Colin


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## Ross (Mar 19, 2004)

Hey Colin, maybe we could combine shipping?


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## Psychomodo (Mar 19, 2004)

Ross
Might be worth looking into what the saving might be when the time comes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Colin


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## SilverFox (Mar 19, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I'm in for a battery pack and a couple of lamps.

Tom


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## springnr (Mar 19, 2004)

Jim, I would appreciate a battery pack and some lamps when you get rolling. Keith


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## js (Mar 19, 2004)

Great. OK. There is definitely at least some interest, so here is what I am going to do: I have enough batteries on order to make 8 packs. These will be my field test & review run. S4MadMan will get a pack or two and a SL-35X and will post a review thread in the Review forum. I also will put a production run pack through its paces and possibly also send one to Ginseng. AFTER S4MadMan and (possibly) Ginseng have posted their findings, the other packs will go out to those who are interested in getting in on this run, in the order they posted above (if they are interested), . If there is some detail that needs to be changed; if some flaw reveals itself, or whatever, then those people involved in the field test run will have to mail their packs back to me for re-work or replacement, as appropriate. I will pay for shipping both ways should this happen. The field test run packs should be completed within 10 days.

I will also post detailed descriptions with pictures (I hope) documenting how I have made the packs. This will provide information for those who want to buy one of my custom packs as well as for those who want to make their own.

Then, at this point I will open up a B/S/T thread with a one week window. Whoever wants to buy can post there. I will commit to making up to 40 packs, so unless I am seriously underestimating the demand, there will be one for anyone who wants one. Same goes for SL-35X lamp modules, but the problem there may be the number of them in stock at the various dealers. I doubt that BrightGuy has forty of them on hand, but they may be able to get them on relatively short notice. I'll have to look into it.

And on that note I was also thinking that perhaps the SL-35X lamp modules will not need to be turned down, IF they work with flashlightlens.com's new shock isolated TigerLight UCL's. Used without a bezel-lens o-ring, it may be a perfect fit, and the SI gasket on the UCL would seal against the bezel. I will report on this as soon as I get my shipment from BrightGuy. In any case, the SL-35X LA will work with a TL, straight out of the box, but the bezel ring will not turn all the way down to make contact with the o-ring, and thus using the light this way will defeat the water resistance. Still, it's workable.

A big "thank you" goes to Minjin who first discovered this inter-compatability between SL-20X/35X and TL LA's.

I tried the WA 1111 on my freshly charged, fully broken in KAN pack last night, and we are still in business. It did NOT blow and was seriously bright. What irks me at the moment is that I have no idea how bright these WA bulbs really are. No matter how hard I try to hold them steady and centered in an RF1940 reflector, I still don't get a comparable beam to the SL and TL LA's. I'm sure it's just that I don't have the lamp held in the focal point and properly oriented. So I've been continuing my search for a good potting compound, and I think I finally have found it. I also have been re-thinking the need for it, and am still investigating the possibility of a fixture that grabs the bi-pin lamp by the leads. This would be desireable in many ways. There are a number of issues to work out in any case.

Even though I don't know just _how_ bright the WA 1111 is, I certainly _can_ tell you that it is definitely WAY bright when pushed to 7.2 volts. It's looking as if the three WA/Carely options are going to be:

1. WA 1274: plenty bright, longer running than either 35X or 1111, uses 6 cell pack and stock charger.
2. WA 1111: very bright, short run-time, uses 6 cell pack and stock charger.
3. WA 1185: extremely bright, short run-time, uses 9 cell pack and a modified stock charger (switch, resistor, wires) and needs a higher voltage wallwart. Modified charger will charge either 6 or 9 cell packs by changing toggle switch setting.

Miscellaneous other stuff: I still want to change or modify the rubber hose and charging harness spring.


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## K5Guy (Mar 19, 2004)

JS,

Great stuff/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif I can't wait to see your post with the battery building info. Thanks for sharing with everyone. I appreciate your efforts and hope you continue on your quest for the ultimate TigerLight.


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## Ginseng (Mar 19, 2004)

Exceptional. I look forward to testing your stuff. 

Wilkey


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## Minjin (Mar 20, 2004)

Since it was my idea, do I get a discount? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Good job, BTW.

Mark


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## Psychomodo (Mar 20, 2004)

Excellent work Jim. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

I'm looking forward to getting in on the initial "run". I also will be buying one of your WA/Carely options when they're available. 
BTW, I don't expect you to pick up the cost for the return postage from UK if pack is defective - I am quite happy to pay all shipping costs on this one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Colin
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## SilverFox (Mar 20, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I have a little extra time on my hands for the next couple of weeks and would be more than happy to "prove" the design, if that works out for you.

I have two TigerLights and am planning to do side by side comparisons.

Tom


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## Psychomodo (Mar 21, 2004)

Jim,
I have two Tigerlights also and could do the same if you want. 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## js (Mar 23, 2004)

SIlverFox & Psychomodo,

Thanks for the offers. I'll PM you sometime today.

Everyone,

OK. I have found what I think is the very best way to attach the 9V + and - connectors to the pack, and will detail it below. There are three main considerations or issues: making good electrical connections, holding the connectors in place mechanically, and using as little height as possible in order to keep the overall length of the packs the same as the stock packs.

The + and - connectors of a 9 volt harness are usually riveted into a fiber board of some kind. The stock pack has them rivited into the triangular cap of the battery pack, along with thin metal straps which fold over onto themselves and which are then spot welded to the battery contacts. As I mentioned before, the + connector's proper position on the top of the pack is somewhat offset from being directly over the + contact of the battery, such that part of the connector is actually over the insulation surrounding the + battery contact (the - connector is also offset from center, but the - battery contact is the entire surface of the battery, so no problem). One way to solve this is to rivet the connectors in place into a fiber board (or use an standard 9 volt harness) and solder copper braid to the 9 volt connectors, then bend the braids over and solder them to the battery contacts. Unfortunately, the braids wick the solder (even pre-tinned copper braid does this) and become inflexible, requiring them to be made even longer than is geometrically necessary, but this can work just fine. It does take up quite a bit of thickness, however: two layers of braid + fiber board, + rivet. The best way, I think, is to remove the + and - connectors from their fiber board by grinding off the back of the rivets and gently prying them up. Next solder a length of copper braid to the backs and trim so there is only about a 1/8 to 1/16 or so sticking out. This creates a solder braid "tab" which allows you to offset the + connector, and also ensures a good electrical connection. (I wouldn't want to try end-to-end soldering here!) Once the tabs are soldered in place, put a bit of G10 or other insulator, under the part of the + connector that is NOT over the + contact of the battery. This will prevent melting the insulation surrounding the + contact, which is undesireable, to say the least--in the worst case scenario you could end up bridging to the - battery contact and shorting out the battery. Use the old pack top cap to determine the proper placement of the + connector. Err towards the inside. Solder in place, but do not stay on the battery for more than 3-5 seconds, preferably 3 or less. When the + connector is soldered in place, grab a complete 9 V connector harness, put the - contact in place, and then _gently_ push the harness down onto the soldered in place + connector. It's OK at this point if the + connector is not oriented perfectly perpendicular. Rotate the harness around (and the - connector with braid as well) so that the - connector is in the right place. Solder it onto the - battery top using the braid tab. At this point, after waiting for the batteries to cool off, you can go back to the + connector and re-solder it: the attached harness will snap it upright. Remove the small strip of G10 and make sure that there is a gap between the part of the + connector that is hanging off of the + battery contact, and the insulation below it. _Carefully_ remove the 9 volt harness you were using as a jig. Examine solder joints. If they don't look good, go chill out for a while, then return and try again.

So this completes part I, a good electrical connection. However, a solder joint is *NOT* meant to be a mechanical connection, so we need to adderss that issue. Get a good potting epoxy (www.alliedelec.com sells some, but DevCon 5 minute epoxy will work if you can't find a potting epoxy.) BUT FIRST, mask off the surface of the + connector. You do NOT want to get epoxy on it. Some epoxy on the flange below the connector surface is OK, but epoxy on the surface will prevent electrical connection with the mating 9 volt connector. Now, carefully work the epoxy into the gap bewteen the + connector and battery below it, and also, around the entire + connector. Do not spread the epoxy over the entire battery top, and do NOT bridge the epoxy over to the other battery stacks, as this will prevent thermal movement. Next, epoxy the - contact in place. This is a lot easier, BTW. Let dry completely before testing.

When dry, roughly snap a connector harness on and off 10-20 times. Examine the connector to battery joints. Test voltage with DMM to make sure there is still an electrical connection. Try to wiggle them slightly. And so on. If you have done it right, you will KNOW that these babies are rock solid. I was thrilled when I finished this procedure for the first time. Plus, it uses an absolute minimum of height. Unfortunately, it isn't fun to undo--belt sander needed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.


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## SilverFox (Mar 23, 2004)

Hello Jim,

It sounds like a lot of work to me...

The first thing that came to my mind was "is the 9 volt connecter the best for this application?" 

I know there is not much room there, and I am sure your set up will work fine, but I still have a bit of a lingering question. Is the 9 volt connecter suitable for the increased current involved in the modification.

Tom


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## js (Mar 23, 2004)

Tom,

Unless I want to have people mail me their TL's, I have to use a 9 volt connector on the battery pack, because there is a 9 volt connector on the TL wires!

The 9 volt connectors will take plenty of current. Far more than the Molex connectors which grab the lamp wires. No worries there.

As for the amount of work involved, this is what I signed up for. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif As a piano technician I do even more delicate and tedious work. I used to do it for a living! I find it to be meditative, as long as I don't have too much of a time squeeze.

Is the 9 volt connector the best? I don't know. It seems to work pretty well. What do you think would be better?


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## SilverFox (Mar 23, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I have no better suggestions, except for maybe a direct solder connection...

I was just thinking that most designs go to a higher voltage to reduce the wire and connector sizes. In this case, we are trying to push a lot of amps through the system. I just don't want to end up with a connecter getting hot and acting like a resistor. My PALight utilizes a 9 volt connector and I guess I was thinking that the TigerLight will have a lot more current passing through it than the PALight.

In a past life... I use to rewire hot rods, old cars, boats, and trucks. We did several 6 volt to 12 volt conversions and 12 volt to 24 volt conversions. I was instructed to use the same gage wire that was recommended for the 6 volt application in the 12 volt conversion and the same for the 12 volt to 24 volt conversion. We never had starter or alternator problems even with big block motors and 110 amp alternators. My questions are just a carry over from that experience. We had more electrical problems with connecters than just about anything else. 

A bit off topic but...

One day a man came in with a Jaguar XKE. We flipped a coin and I won the toss. His problem was that after an hour of driving, he was unable to start the car back up until it cooled down. I was instructed to drive around for an hour or so to make the problem appear, to fix the problem, then finally to drive around for another hour or so to verify that the problem was repaired. I was also told that the owner was not one to "pansy-***" around, the engine and drive train was sound and the car had good rubber on it. I was told not to wreck the car and I was responsible for any tickets.

I was about 20 at the time and this was too good to be true. 

I spent all day driving around in an XKE and got paid for it. 

The problem was a battery connection to the solenoid. It was close to the exhaust and was begining to work loose. It was a crimped connector that would come loose as things heated up. I took the wire and connector off, cleaned it up, crimped it again, then soldered it. The problem went away.

It took me about 15 minutes to fix the problem and the rest of the day to "verify" that it was fixed.

Almost as good as playing with lights...

A starter draws a lot of current and needs a good connection to the battery. I don't think the TigerLight has quite the same demand, at least not yet...

Tom


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## js (Mar 24, 2004)

Tom,

The current demands of even the WA 1111 in TL are MUCH less than a starter! Less than 4 or 5 amps for sure. The 9 volt connector is more than adequate to the task. As for direct soldering, are you serious? That would mean you'd have to unsolder the leads to the pack from the flashlight battery leads every time you needed to change the battery pack! It would also mean that if you ever needed another battery pack, you'd have to buy a custom pack again. No going back to the standard pack. because it has a 9 V connector. By 9 volt connector, I mean the connector system that is used on a 9 Volt battery and its mating harness in, say, a smoke detector. I don't mean that it's only rated for 9 volts.

In other news, I got my SL-35X's yesterday and tried out a straight, un-modded SL-35X LA with www.flashlightlens.com 's new SI UCL for TL and with the bezel o-ring removed, and it worked just great. Almost perfect fit. So, that means that for those of you who haven't yet purchased a UCL, if you buy the SI UCL, all you need to do is remove the o-ring installed in the bezel, insert the SI UCL and 35X, and you are set to go.

AND, even better news, for those of you with the old UCL's for TL (without the SI gasket) if you replace the .100" thick stock bezel o-ring with a -33 2-1/8 O.D. .070" thick o-ring, the bezel turns down and seals with the standard un-modded SL-35X LA. So, I am going to order 100 -33 o-rings, and can send one or two free with every KAN pack or sell them for a nominal fee to those who are building their own packs. That way, people can just buy the standard SL-35X LA from their favorite dealers anytime they want, however many they want. I do have 6 of these at the moment, which is more than I want, so I will be selling all but one of them at cost to those who want them with their KAN packs.

This is great news, I think, because I really wasn't looking forward to grinding down dozens of SL-35X rims. Now we don't need to. Either use the new SI UCL with no bezel o-ring, or old UCL with -33 bezel o-ring in place of stock o-ring.

[Edited to change cost of -33 o-rings]


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## Psychomodo (Mar 24, 2004)

Jim
Thanks for the latest update. I'm not sure where I can buy the SL-35X LA from (in the UK) so I'd like to take a couple off your hands when I get my KAN pack from you! Just let me know the total cost (inc shipping to UK) and I'll send Paypal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

(Chompin' at the bit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)


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## js (Mar 24, 2004)

Colin,

Would it also help if I got some SI UCL's to be included in overseas packages such as yours?


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## SilverFox (Mar 24, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I believe your proposed connecter will work fine. You have addressed the issue of the rivets and the epoxy should hold everything in place.

I agree, the starter problem was an extreme example.

As far as directly soldering the battery pack, I was thinking in terms of removing the wire harness from the TigerLight (and saving it to go back to the original set up) and replacing it with slightly longer wires that would allow one to solder and heat shrink the connection. Your battery pack would simply provide wires for soldering. This would reduce the length of the battery pack by eliminating the 9 volt connector.

The problem with this approach is that I am not sure how to remove the existing wires. I believe the charging connectors are screwed in, but do not know if they are glued as well. Also, it looks like some kind of special spanner tool was used to screw the contacts in. Another problem is that the end user would have to disassemble their light, do some soldering, and reassemble things. This might be interesting to try, but it is not convenient.

OK, back to reality. I think the 9 volt connecter set up will be fine.

Tom


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## Psychomodo (Mar 24, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
Colin,

Would it also help if I got some SI UCL's to be included in overseas packages such as yours? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds a great idea! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I have just recently ordered one from flashlightlens, but I could always do with a spare one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## Psychomodo (Mar 24, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
...Another problem is that the end user would have to disassemble their light, do some soldering, and reassemble things...

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm afraid if that happens then I would be struggling /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

My technical knowledge extends to putting the TL into the charger /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


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## SilverFox (Mar 24, 2004)

Hello Colin,

Yes, Jims idea is much more practical. That is why he makes the big bucks...

Tom


----------



## js (Mar 24, 2004)

Tom,

Your idea is the best possible one for those of us who are willing and able to do it. Certainly would save on space! And talk about a good connection. Listen, if you want to do it, I can make up a pack with bare leads sticking out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I have also thought of using a small, potent connector (dean's?) located in the middle of one of the flat sections of the triangular pack. Best of both world's maybe?

To get the switch assembly out, unscrew the charging contacts with a spanner wrench or with a pair of small snap ring pliers. Pull off the plastic housing (this can be difficult, but it can be done), then push in the switch and push the assy towards the front of the light. Perhaps even try to remove the rubber switch covering--not sure about this--but in any event shake or knock the switch assy out the front of the light. At some point you may need to remove the tape from the inside, and disassemble those two plastic half circular pieces. At any rate this is more or less what I've been told. I have only removed the charging contacts and housing and tried to knock the switch assy out (without pushing the switch in--DUH! It was late). I started the process but then stopped: I decided that I'd rather go to bed while I was still ahead than sleep with thoughts of my dissassembled (read "possibly ruined") TL.

[Edited for proper directions! See below]


----------



## SilverFox (Mar 24, 2004)

Hello Jim,

Let me have a look and see if I can get the thing apart...

Tom


----------



## js (Mar 24, 2004)

Tom,

*Don't remove the tape and try to disassemble the plastic half circular peices!* I screwed that up! I didn't have the email in front of me and I forgot the part about pushing in the switch. Actually I still don't have it in front of me, but from what I can remember the proper procedure is as follows:

1. Unscrew the charging contacts and remove
2. Pull off the plastic housing they were in
3. Push in the switch and push the whole switch assy towards the front of the light. Perhaps even removing the rubber covering first? I don't know.
4. knock the switch assy out the front of the light.

At this point you may need to remove the tape and do further disassembly.

Tom, if you messed up your light due to my bad directions, please let me know. Sorry for posting bad info. I HATE doing that.

Again, just to be clear, all I have done myself at this point is to remove the charging contacts and plastic housing and try to shake/knock the switch assy out the front of the light. It didn't work and I wasn't up to pressing the issue.

OK. I'm going to edit the post above.


----------



## SilverFox (Mar 24, 2004)

Hello Jim,

What, me read directions and actually follow them? You must be kidding...

No problems.

I took my TigerLight all the way apart, checked it out, put it back together again, and it still works and charges. Not bad, if I must say so myself.

The wires are soldered on the nuts that the contacts screw into. It looks like you could unsolder the wires and replace them with two runs of 9-10" of wire. If you went 12", that would allow soldering to the battery pack with room to spare. 

I'll take you up on your offer for a battery pack with wires, but I need to find 24" of 18 gage 300 C stranded wire. I went to Radio Shack and they had a spool of test lead wire, but it was a lot bigger.

Do you have a source for wire like this?

I was a bit brutal in my removal. I unscrewed the contacts, removed the plastic housing, removed the rubber cover on the switch, pushed the switch plunger in, grabbed the wires and pulled the whole assembly out. It is a bit of a tight fit, but it does come out. It wants to get stuck at the very end. I think it gets bound up as it tries to pop out.

You must remember to depress the switch plunger when re-installing the assembly. It doesn't go in if you don't.

You know Jim, there is just a disk inserted that holds the pepper spray. I figure you could get another 3 cells in where the pepper spray goes. You could drill a hole for a pair of wires to go through the disk and solder them to the rest of the wires. This might be worth looking into, but I am not sure what lamps would work with that set up.

Tom


----------



## Psychomodo (Mar 25, 2004)

I have one of each of the Tigerlights (FBOP and pepperspray). May be able to do a different mod with each one eventually? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## js (Mar 25, 2004)

Tom,

Great! Glad your Tiger is still OK. Try www.dynamoelectrics.com. Check out their high strand count silicone insulation wire. I don't know if they have 18 gauge, though. The TL wires are actually a proprietary crush proof 22 AWG, BTW. So 20 gauge high strand count wire should be the ticket.

As for using the pepper spray compartment, it might just work for going to 9 KAN 1800's (as opposed to 9 KAN 1050's, which is what I am currently doing for the TL+ with WA 1185.


----------



## js (Mar 25, 2004)

First, here is a picture of the 9 V + and - connectors at the point in the assembly process where they were soldered (but not yet epoxied) to the top of the 9 cell pack (9 Kan1050 2/3A's) and before the top and bottom were covered with kapton tape and then the pack shrink wrapped.







As you can see, this is the least amount of height I can possibly use up! So far the connectors are still firmly attached and working great. I have put a 9 V harness on and off far more times so far than someone is ever likely to do with a flashlight like the TL, where you just always leave the battery pack installed.

I am still in the process of cycling the 9 cell pack before I try it out with the WA 1185, which should be tomorrow.

In other news, I am totally annoyed because I STILL don't have my order of KAN 1800's because the company screwed up my shipping AGAIN. I selected FedEx 2 day, and they gave me home delivery, which should have gotten here today, but didn't. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif And since I accidentally over discharged (WAY overdischarged) my first KAN 1800 pack, and since I totally disected and practiced on my stock pack, I don't even have a working TigerLight. Curses. Curses. Curses. It really sucks because I was looking forward to either playing with the SL-35X/KAN combo, or having S4MadMan review it. Also, there is the $25 or so down the tubes.

In other news, I think I have found a kinder, gentler spring for the charging harness, and will order some of them as soon as I lose the feeling of having spent too much money already. Some of which was spent on a potting compound for the WA lamps. It is from Cotronics corporation: 940LE, specifically designed for potting halogen lamps. I talked with one of their engineers and he said that the most important thing was to match the thermal expansion of the glass, if your potting is up against the glass. Glass has a very low thermal expansion, and the 940LE is designed to match it. It will take 2800 F, or something absurd like that. I will pot the lamps into metal rings for now, but I am still considering bi-pin fixture possibilities.

OK. That's the most recent update. Seems to me Ginseng's way is better. Do everything unbelieveably fast, then drop it all in one gorgeous, awesome post with breathtaking photos. Ah, well. This is my way. Thinking out loud to some degree, I suppose.


----------



## Psychomodo (Mar 25, 2004)

Jim - I appreciate the way you keep us updated all the time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Keep it up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## Ginseng (Mar 25, 2004)

Jim,

Nice work. That pack connector looks really good. I've also gone over your connector assembly method for the regular pack and I think it's pretty good. It's still a bit hard to visualize but anyway, I can't wait to see a picture of your 1800 pack. 
Wilkey

BTW, my way of posting is simply a product of my impatience /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## SilverFox (Mar 26, 2004)

Hello Jim,

Looking good.

Tom


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## kubolaw (Mar 26, 2004)

Great work Jim! I really like the frequent updates also. Sort of like reading a good book or watching episodes in a TV series unfold.

John


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## Ginseng (Mar 26, 2004)

"All My Tigerlights"

"As the Tigerlight Turns"

"General Tigerlight"

"The Young and the Restless Tigerlight"

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Wilkey


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## Psychomodo (Mar 26, 2004)

"Sun of Tigerlight"
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## js (Mar 26, 2004)

Lastest episode of "As the TigerLight Turns" . . . LOL!

So my 9 cell KAN 1050 pack was finally ready to handle the 1185 today. Let me just say *HOLY BRIGHTNESS, BATMAN!* Wow! I just love these KAN high current cells. They have serious, serious muscle. The 1050's didn't even sag under the 1185 current draw. I just love the voltage vs. current graphs of the 1800 and 1050. I will post some graphs in the next week or so, but the short of it is that because of their very low internal resistance, they really can hold their voltage under load, just as Ginseng said they would. Still, I didn't expect the 2/3A's to do as well as the 4/5A's, considering the size difference.

I ran the 1185 for around 20 minutes before I hit the 9V end of cycle (1 V per cell). This lamp is truly astonishingly bright and white. Consider that at 9.6 V it is putting out 816 lumes, and then consider that most of the time we are well above that voltage. At any rate, the connectors on the TL lamp leads got hot because they were holding onto the hot lamp pins, but had no problem with the 3+ amp current draw. It's hard to believe that this is Ginseng's low output setup! You guys are going to love this configuration! It is rockin'. I'm glad I bought 10 of these 1185's.

The bad news is that the -33 o-rings I got don't work all that well with the regular (non SI) UCL and SL-35X. See my post in the Dealer's Corner, but the situation is basically another TL o-ring experience. The -33 o-ring WILL work in the bezel, but requires care and tweaking during the bezel turn down, as it often wants to squirm out from under the lip of the bezel. I now have a bad of 100 of these stupid things, simply because I got lucky the first time I tried using a 1/16 W o-ring in the bezel. It worked fine, and I was thinking "OK. Excellent. I won't have to grind down SL-35X lamp modules after all." Oh well, these things happen.

And, my KAN 1800's finally arrived! YES! Now, I can get working on the field test run of 6 cell KAN packs. First thing I'm going to do is send one of them off to S4MadMan, along with a 35X and plenty of -33 o-rings /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif so he can review the set up and post some beam shots for all of us to see.


----------



## SilverFox (Mar 26, 2004)

"The TigerLight Files"

"Scully, where is that light coming from?"


----------



## springnr (Mar 26, 2004)

Bezel/Body O-ring warning label
*Caution: This interface may cause Tourette syndrome. 

Much to the chagrin of my wife the Tigerlight Bezel/Body O-ring has proven to be a linguistic time machine allowing me to perfectly recollect some long forgotten Sailoreze.


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 26, 2004)

*A special day in Tigerlight modding.*

And so the TL85 is born. 

Wilkey


----------



## Illuminated (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: A special day in Tigerlight modding.*

Jim, PM sent...

John


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## SilverFox (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: A special day in Tigerlight modding.*

Hello Jim,

PM's sent.

Tom


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## js (Mar 31, 2004)

Sorry for the lack of updates recently, but I've been working steadily to build and condition the first three KAN 1800 field test packs. Last night they were ready to be discharged under the SL-35X load (Yeee Haaa) so I went out to play in the fields with my KAN/35X setup. Yes. It is very bright. My pack wasn't yet at full performance, so this is a conservative estimate, but I measured the runtime to be 27 minutes, so that could mean a full half hour with a fully broken in pack. I accidentally blew the current measuring fuse in my Fluke so I didn't get that current measurement, ( but on the other hand, I CAN tell you that the KAN 1800's will deliver over 15 amps--no surprise there ). However, judging from the capacity of the batteries and the run time, the current draw must be on the order of 3.6 to 3.7 amps. So, let's say it is 3.65 amps. Times 7.2 volts = a little over 26 watts, which is more than double the stock 12 watts. Also, using the WA re-rating formula and assuming a starting lumens of 400 at 6.0 volts, yields 757 lumes at 7.2 volts. The WA re-rating formulas also suggest a 3.65 current draw, given my previous measurement of 3.2 amps at 6.0 volts.

Anyway, enough of these numbers. I played with both the 35X and the stock LA, and they both throw the same distance, but the 35X lights up WAY more area than the stock LA. I remembered how bright it was from before, but even so, I still was surprised again at the amount of light. It is easily twice as bright, in terms of total output, as the stock LA, and it does possibly have a slightly more intense hot spot, but most of the extra light goes into a bigger hot spot and lots more spill light. You guys are really going to like this set up.

I am also quite pleased with my battery packs. I am very happy with the way they came out, and they are slightly shorter than the stock battery pack, which makes for an easier, but still plenty snug, bezel turn down. I have made and conditioned three battery packs, which is all I had 9 V connectors for (more due tomorrow afternoon). One I am holding onto, because I really didn't like being without a working TL, one I am sending to S4MadMan for a review thread he is going to do (stay tuned . . . ), and one I am sending to SilverFox for field testing. The packs and SL-35X lamp modules will go out tomorrow via priority mail or faster. When I make the other five field test packs, I will send those out to others who are interested in participating in the field test run.

Also, when I am convinced that I have perfected my pack building method, I will post a detailed description with picures for those of you who want to make your own TL packs. I encourage people to do this (*evil laughter in background*) if they are so inclined.


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## SilverFox (Mar 31, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I have one of my TigerLights gutted in anticipation...

Tom


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## js (Mar 31, 2004)

Everyone,

I got interupted during my post above, and so had to cut it short. I didn't mean to end on that note (evil laughter). I really do encourage people to get into building their own battery packs. It's really very rewarding, and while sometimes frustrating, it is also sometimes quite fun. I was going to say before, that I would start a separate thread on the subject of building end-to-end soldered battery packs, focusing specifically on the KAN packs I am making for the TL, but not exclusively. If Ginseng and any others could also contribute and share their experience, we could have a pretty good thread on the subject. Perhaps there already is one? I haven't done a search yet. At any rate, I can start the thread right now, or very soon, with some general advice on soldering and equipment, and what did and didn't work for me. Is anyone out there wanting such a thing right away? K5Guy, have you started building your KAN pack yet?


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## js (Apr 1, 2004)

Psychomodo, Ross, and Frame57, I sent you all emails regarding the field test run of packs. Respond if you want to participate. If there is anyone else who wants to get in on the field test run, I have two more openings. PM me for details.

I sent out packages to S4MadMan and SilverFox today via USPS priority mail, so they should be getting them by Monday.

Also, I did a current draw measurement of the SL-35X and it was 3.6 amps at 7.2 volts, so I was pretty close in my guess. 25.9 watts is quite a bit of luminous power. And this was not on a fresh pack. The voltage actually comes in at 7.4 volts and falls gradually to 7.2 in the first minute or two. As I said before, I intend to get some voltage vs. time curves plotted for everyone to see. These KAN high current NiMH batteries are awesome. They also seem to have a slower self-discharge than I remember the stock batteries having. Ginseng, does this make any sense, or am I just imagining this: do high drain batteries have a LOWER self-discharge rate, than standard or high capacity batteries?

I received my high temperature potting adhesive a couple days ago, but I have not tried potting a lamp into a metal fixture ring yet, because I need a gram scale to do the mixing. Always something else I need to buy or borrow it seems. I'm very excited about the WA 1111 because it is another step up in lumens than the 35X. And the 1185 is another step up above that. Plus I can use an orange peel reflector for a better beam. Much more to come. Should be good stuff.

So that's the latest episode of "As the TigerLight turns".


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## Ross (Apr 2, 2004)

JS, replied to your email, i'd like to say 'WOW' for all the work you;ve done so far - excellent stuff. I look forward to getting the finished article from you!


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## Psychomodo (Apr 2, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
Psychomodo, Ross, and Frame57, I sent you all emails regarding the field test run of packs. Respond if you want to participate... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim - I've not received an email yet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif but I definitely want to do the field test. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I hope you won't mind posting to the UK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I have Paypal at the ready - just let me now the total cost and I'll send it today /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

(my email addys: [email protected] and [email protected])


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## Frame57 (Apr 2, 2004)

Just replied to your Email I'm definately in for your generous offer. Thanks Alot.


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## Ginseng (Apr 2, 2004)

Jim,

How did you ever end up attracting all these UK flashaholics? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Wilkey


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## fivemega (Apr 3, 2004)

I have used 1111 on 6D M*g with NiMH
Current draw is 3.6A with fuly recharged batteries. Brightness is unbeleiveable and beam color is white white. I don't have run time, since I still need original reflector and my batteries are old and only 7000 mAh.
I am not sure if you can get that kind of current from 4/5A but it worth to do.


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## js (Apr 4, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*fivemega said:*
I have used 1111 on 6D M*g with NiMH
Current draw is 3.6A with fuly recharged batteries. Brightness is unbeleiveable and beam color is white white. I don't have run time, since I still need original reflector and my batteries are old and only 7000 mAh.
I am not sure if you can get that kind of current from 4/5A but it worth to do. 

[/ QUOTE ]

You must be joking! The KAN 4/5A's--heck, the KAN 2/3A's, even--can support sustained current draws of over 20 amps! These are RC community batteries. I chose them for several reasons:

1. High drain. These batteries can take anything--and I mean anything--you throw at them, and still deliver.

2. Comparable capacity to stock batteries: they have almost exactly the same capacity as the stock batteries, and so the stock trickle charger works great as is and charges them in just a little under 10 hours.

3. Comparable size to stock batteries: unlike the Sanyo HR4/5FAUP's, these batteries have a very similar diameter to the stock batteries, and are only slightly longer, but this is offset by my battery pack construction technique to yield a pack that is, if anything, .050" or so shorter in length.

4. Universal praise: everyone with any experience with the KAN batteries with whom I've spoken, has only good things to say about them.

As for a current draw of 3.6 amps, that's a breeze! The SL-35X LA is drawing that current at 7.2 volts, and my battery pack is now comming in at 7.7-7.6 volts and falling gradually down to 7.4-7.3 to 7.2 for a long time. You'll see when I post the voltage vs. time curves, but as I've said before, these KAN 1800's have serious muscle. Serious muscle.

And for that matter, I have run the 1111 on my KAN pack, and it can push that lamp all the way. I will do a current draw measurement tonight, and I bet that it will be drawing *over* 3.6 amps. What batteries were you using? Perhaps THEY weren't up to the task? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

OK. Psychomodo, PM sent (or I will directly after this post).

I went out last night and did a runtime vs. brightness test of the KAN/35X setup. First of all--and this is good and bad--the 35X is already pretty bright at 6.0 volts, so that means the end of cycle is harder to detect than normal. There is no characteristic yellowing, although there is a dimming, but it is subtle. I took a clock with me so that I knew when 27 minutes was up, just to be safe, but I would have known without it, because there was a definite (if sublte) dimming of the beam, but it was fairly gradual as well. So, given that NiMH don't like to be over-discharged, this could be a problem. Ginseng, what do you think? I am assuming that when pushed further, the brightness would start to fall off rapidly and that it would become obvious to even a distracted person that the batteries were out of charge. Also, as I mentioned above, my KAN pack just keeps developing more and more muscle. It is now comming in at 7.6 volts or so with the 35X, fully charged. I am anxiously awaiting S4MadMan's review thread, and the field testers impressions.


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## Ginseng (Apr 4, 2004)

Jim,
My conclusions regarding the KAN cells mirrors yours. Your enthusiasm is merited.

As for discharging, the voltage under load (and by direct relationship, the lumen output of the bulb) drops like a flipped sigmoid curve at the end. That is, a gradual decline followed by an increasing rate which gets precipitous at around 1.00-1.07 V/cell. Since the SL-35X is a 5-cell bulb, it will only start to get _seriously_ dim at around 4.5V which would be about 0.75 V/cell. That's low but still not dangerously low. If you catch it right away, you'd most likely be ok. This situation is analogous to the overdrive of the WA01160 (4-cell bulb) on the MagCharger 5-cell stick.

My KAN1800 packs have survived repeated discharges to 0.8 V/cell or a little less without problems. The time between 0.8 and 0.75V would be on the order of seconds. 

Wilkey


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## SilverFox (Apr 4, 2004)

Hello Jim,

When we are testing run time do we end at half brightness?

How good do these batteries get?

Do the batteries get hot? 

How is the connector holding up?

How many hours can we expect out of these lamps?

How long can I run the light without doing damage to the plastic lens?

Do we need to find a high temperature O ring?

Do I need to wear gloves during testing?

You may have noticed that the *excitement* and *anticipation* are killing me... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tom


----------



## js (Apr 5, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Jim,

When we are testing run time do we end at half brightness?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not! As I said, it's hard to notice. Also, there's the whole problem of perceived brightness vs. lumens. A 50 percent change in lumens is considered to be a minimum for an obvious perceived difference. So, I would say that at most, the end of cycle brightness (in lumens) is down by 50 percent.

[ QUOTE ]
How good do these batteries get?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's part of what us field testers are trying to determine. Pretty darn good, and maybe better.

[ QUOTE ]
Do the batteries get hot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have run the full discharge of the 35X straight and taken the pack out, and it was only mildly warm. These cells don't have much internal resistance (6-10 mOhms is what is quoted) and thus won't get hot under such a "low" current draw. Remember, RC people use these to put out 20 amps or more.

[ QUOTE ]
How is the connector holding up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rock solid on my pack. Again, that's another question we are going to answer, but I have full confidence in my connector attachment method. One thing I do want you guys to keep an eye on is the end caps: check carefully for denting, abraiding, and general wear and tear, as you use the packs.

[ QUOTE ]
How many hours can we expect out of these lamps?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ginseng estimates 50 hours.

[ QUOTE ]
How long can I run the light without doing damage to the plastic lens?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you've got a plastic lens you don't care about, I wouldn't try the experiment. My guess is a couple to five minutes. When I was doing a runtime test of this setup, I bubbled up my wife's cutting mat by inadvertently shining the beam in one spot for a five minute stretch (or less), and that was a good foot or two away. The lens is only inches from a serious IR radiator. You're on your own on this one, Tom. Personally, I wouldn't even think about plastic lenses while running this setup.

[ QUOTE ]
Do we need to find a high temperature O ring?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. I have tested for this, and all my rubber/buna-n parts are doing just fine, including the rubber hose which is touching the reflector.

[ QUOTE ]
Do I need to wear gloves during testing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if you insist on holding the light right at the head. Although, if it is the least bit cold out, it changes into a really nice hand warmer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
You may have noticed that the *excitement* and *anticipation* are killing me... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Won't be long now. Less than eight hours, I'm guessing. Well, and then you have to wait for darkness. Happy search-lighting!

OK. Everyone else, I did a current draw measurement of the WA 1111, and as I predicted, I measured 3.68 amps! Yo, baby! fivemega, what batteries were you using? I mean the brand as well as the type. Any idea what internal resistance they have?


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## SilverFox (Apr 5, 2004)

*WOW!!!*

Look what I found in my mailbox.











I am going to have some fun this evening...

Tom


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## Psychomodo (Apr 6, 2004)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 6, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I understand there was a full moon out last night. I missed it.

This combination is incredible. I was lighting up things about 6 blocks away.

I am going to have to pay more attention to the brightness. When I finally noticed that things were dimming down, the battery voltage had dropped to just over 5.0 volts. I have to admit that I was caught up in the moment. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tom


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## Psychomodo (Apr 6, 2004)

Hi Tom

(I'm waiting for my "field trial" pack /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

How long did you get before it started "dimming down"?

What sort of percentage increase do you think you are getting over the stock TL?


----------



## js (Apr 6, 2004)

Tom,

Excellent! Glad your first impressions are favorable. 5.0 volts at end of cycle shouldn't be a problem from what Ginseng said.

Psychomodo, Frame57, springnr: I will be doing the final glueing together of the battery stacks tonight and tomorrow will make all the electrical connections, then it will take me a couple days to cycle and break in the packs, which means I should be able to ship out your packs by Friday at the earliest and Monday at the latest. Also, I don't have enough SL-35X's on hand to fullfill everyone's requests, so I will order some more, but brightguy is great about shipping things out ASAP, so that shouldn't hold things up much. As for the paying by credit card I think that can almost certainly be arranged.

I wanted to make sure that everyone understands that the stock LA will work just great with the KAN pack. The runtime should be identicle or slightly longer, but the beam should be slightly brighter and whiter due to the higher voltage through the cycle. Also, in all other respects the KAN pack is transparent to the TigerLight gold system. It charges in the same way in the same time on the exact same charger, and has almost identicle dimensions and weight. Of course, it can deliver much more current than the stock pack and holds its voltage better. That's why I made it.

In S4MadMan's honor, I am thinking of trying out the 2100 mAH Sanyo 4/5A's from BatteryStation to see how they perform with the stock LA and with the 35X and WA lamps. These batteries have about two to three times the internal resistance of the KAN's, however, and it is not obvious at first glance that they will have more capacity at 3.6 amps. I'm sure they will have more capacity at the 1.7 amp draw of the stock LA, and should yield a 1 hour and 14 minute runtime, or about 8 minutes more. Hardly seems worth it, doesn't it. Hmmm. Any thoughts on the idea of an S4MadMan pack?


----------



## Nitro (Apr 6, 2004)

Hey Guys, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

How's the TL upgrade coming along? Looks like you guys are using the SL-35X bulb and the KAN 1800 battery pack. Is that your final answer? 

Are there any final specs yet, lumens, runtime, bulb life, volts, amps, watts etc?

Looking forward to seeing the final version.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## js (Apr 6, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Nitro said:*
Hey Guys, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

How's the TL upgrade coming along? Looks like you guys are using the SL-35X bulb and the KAN 1800 battery pack. Is that your final answer? 

Are there any final specs yet, lumens, runtime, bulb life, volts, amps, watts etc?

Looking forward to seeing the final version.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Nitro, this is NOT the final answer! All of your questions could be answered by looking back in the thread, but here they are:

SL-35X: 7.2 Volts, 3.6 Amps, 750 lumens, 27-30 minutes of runtime w/ KAN 1800 6 cell NiMH pack.

Also, the WA lamps with the 6 cell 7.2 Volt pack:

1274___2.77 A___40 min___553 lumens
1111___3.70 A___29 min___880 lumens

And for use with the 9 cell 10.8 volt KAN 1050 pack:

1185___3.36 A___18 min___1233 lumens.

All WA lamps will be in the Carley RF1940 reflectors, either smooth, light orange peel, medium orange peel, or heavy orange peel. All this will have to wait until I get my potting technique down, although keep in mind that I will pot the lamps into a small metal ring which will then be held in the RF1940 reflector by the set screw. Thus the user will be able to change the tightness of the beam and change reflector flavors (smooth, orange peel, etc.) with the same lamp. Assuming everything goes as planned. 9 cell pack will need a modified charging harness, but the modification will allow charging either the 9 or 6 cell packs at the flick of a switch.


----------



## Nitro (Apr 6, 2004)

Decisions decisions /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif What's the advantage of the SL-35X over the WA1111? Who make's the SL-35X bulb, Streamlight or someone else?

Which bulb has the smallest filament to produce the tightest hotspot?

Sorry to make you repeat the info. This thread is getting kind of long and missed the specs on the SL-35X bulb, KAN 1800 combo.


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 6, 2004)

Hello Colin,

I did not keep track of run time. I usually try out a light for a while before I get around to keeping track of hard numbers.

It was noticeably brighter. I am not sure about numbers, but was obvious when comparing them side by side.

I might also add that the beam was a lot smoother than the usual TigerLight beam.

Only a few more hours till darkness...

Tom


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## Ginseng (Apr 6, 2004)

Jim,
This is coming together very nicely. You're determined to make me go out and buy a TigerLight, aren't you? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif That SL-35X LA is showing nicely...and doesn't look like it'll take a lot of work to fit into a MC head.

Gosh this is really starting to get fun!

Wilkey


----------



## Judgedog (Apr 7, 2004)

Ok, I have read this entire thread and it has made me decide:

First, that I will buy the Tigerlight FBOP Gold.

Second, that I must try your upgrades.

The problem is this, I am not at all mechanically inclined and am not sure that I would be able to make the mods myself. I certainly do not understand any of the (many) technical terms in this thread. My question is this:

If I buy the TL and a glass lens and your battery pack and lamp assembly, will I be able to put it together? Again, keep in mind I am very mechanically challenged! Thanks for any and all input.


----------



## Judgedog (Apr 7, 2004)

I have ordered my Tigerlight (8" Gold FBOP Series)! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## SilverFox (Apr 7, 2004)

Hello Judgedog,

If you can put a 9 volt battery in a smoke detector, you can do this mod. It is a little bit more involved because you have to also plug in the lamp, but that is about it.

I did some comparing last night. I am getting at least a 35% increase in brightness compared to my stock TigerLight.

Tom


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## Psychomodo (Apr 7, 2004)

Sounds good to me Tom /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## SilverFox (Apr 8, 2004)

I actually kept track of time last night.

I got 28 minutes of constant on run time. After that it was obvious that the light was going dim. Ending battery voltage was 4.8 volts.

I still consider this information informal. Before the run time evaluation, I had briefly used the light a couple of times, but I think this is about what Jim was expecting give or take a minute or two.

The TigerLight is a great light on its own. This modification is just the iceing on the cake.

This weekend I hope to have time to get to some formal testing.

Tom


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## js (Apr 8, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Nitro said:*
Decisions decisions /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif What's the advantage of the SL-35X over the WA1111? Who make's the SL-35X bulb, Streamlight or someone else?

Which bulb has the smallest filament to produce the tightest hotspot?

Sorry to make you repeat the info. This thread is getting kind of long and missed the specs on the SL-35X bulb, KAN 1800 combo. 

[/ QUOTE ]

No repeating this time. You haven't missed anything.

The SL-35X lamp module is made by StreamLight, and you can buy it from www.brightguy.com for $11.50 + shipping. The SL-35X LA will have a tighter beam than the WA01111 in the Carley RF1940 reflector, but the 1111 is more efficient and of a slightly higher wattage, and thus will put out more light, and light that is of a higher CCT (i.e. "whiter"). Plus, one could use an orange peel reflector for a smoother beam.

The downside is that the life of the 1111 lamp when overdriven this hard will be on the order of 11 hours vs. the 50 hours of the 35X (estimated by Ginseng). And also, that I haven't yet made up a fixture ring for the WA lamps. I'll do that this weekend at the latest.

The final battery packs for the field test run are together and were trickle charged at .1C last night. Today I will do a .5C discharge and a 1C charge and do the shrinkwrapping and end capping. So I should be able to mail them out by Monday morning at the latest. Sorry to keep you field testers waiting.

And in other news, I have made the first 9 cell/6 cell modified TL charging harness and wallwart. I tested it and it works exactly as I hoped it would. Set the switch in the 6 cell position and use the stock wallwart and you charge a 6 cell pack at 185 mA/Hr. Set the switch to the 9 cell position, change to the 15V wallwart, and you charge the 9 cell KAN 1050 pack at 105 mA/Hr. I measured the currents with my DMM for both rates in the actual charging situations. Also, the open circuit voltage of both wallwarts is the same: 18VDC, so I don't need to worry about changing the capacitor across the input. One CAN charge the 6 cell pack with the larger 15V wallwart, but the LM317T will be forced to disipate about a half watt more of power, and I haven't tested yet to see how it handles this. There is a heat sink on it, but it's not very large. I took picutres of everything, inside and out, and will post them soon. Let me tell you, you guys are going to LOVE the 1185 on 9 KAN's. Awesome brightness. Simply awesome. BTW, the charger mod doesn't cost much in parts and is pretty straightforward to do. I could probably do it for $18, including the new wallwart, switch, resistors, and connector and labor. Cool, huh? I'm really very pleased with it. Again, a huge thank you to Illuminated for his expertise, advice, and out-and-out direction! He told me how to mod the TL charging circuit; he figured out what voltage wallwart we'd need, and he ID'd the connectors used to attach the wallwart and car adaptor to the charging harness. I absolutely could not have done it without him. Three cheers for the brains behind the Tiger85 charger: John! John! John! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif And three more cheers for the brains behind the Tiger85 battery pack: Wilkey! Wilkey! Wilkey! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


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## Psychomodo (Apr 8, 2004)

...and three cheers for js for putting all this together: Jim! Jim! Jim! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


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## Ginseng (Apr 8, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Psychomodo said:*
...and three cheers for js for putting all this together: Jim! Jim! Jim! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely! Most folks have never put themselves through the trials of custom pack building and so might not have an idea of what it takes to put something like this together. I can tell you what he's done here is a significant achievement. Letting us read along through all the twists and turns was as delightful as it was nail biting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey


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## Frame57 (Apr 9, 2004)

Just Sent a Pay Pal to Jim for my battery pack and 2 sl 35x's. Can't wait till I get a hold of them.
I'd also like to thank Jim for all his hard work. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## js (Apr 9, 2004)

Psychomodo, Frame57, and springnr: the battery packs and modded (and stock) SL-35X lamp modules will be ready to go out Saturday morning via USPS priority mail or global priority mail.

Thanks everyone for your kind words of appreciation. I'm thrilled that I have been able to contrubute to the CPF community, in however small a way, and I hope to continue.

I had a thought about charger mods: some people like to leave their TL on the charger whenever it's not in use, so that they know it's fully charged when they need it. With the stock charger, the problem is that the .1C charge rate, while not all that bad for a fully charged battery, is still not good, and is way more current than is needed simply to maintain a full charge. So, why not do a charger mod with a switch and two resistors, just as I did for the TL85, but make the second resistor of such a value that you get the right trickle current to simply maintain a full charge and nothing more. Say, 50 mA/hr or something like that. That way, a person could click to the charge rate for 10 hours to ensure a fully charged battery pack, and then change to the very low trickle rate after that, and have absolutely no worries about leaving the TL on the charger 24/7. Any thoughts on this? I mean, as it is, you can do this already for a long long time and not see any deterioration of the battery pack. But still, it's a thought.

I've also thought of making a "peak ignore" charger mod, with two settings: 600 mA, and 185 mA. The user would put it at 600 for two hours, then 185 for three or four, or something like that. Problem is heat disipation of the LM317T, a high enough current wallwart, and the inevitable result, sooner or later, of a fried battery pack when someone forgets. It'd be a pretty inexpensive fast charger, though. Dangerous, but cheap. Again, just a thought.


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 9, 2004)

Jim, 
The only problem I might see with the dual mode trickler is that it might result in someone inadvertently leaving it on superslow, using the torch, returning it to the cradle (not changing the mode) and then going to use the light but only have it be partially charged. The dual mode function is a sound idea with the only foreseeable weak link being the attention and intention of the human user. Another consideration is that manually, there is no way to determine capacity and thus the most appropriate mode to use. I suspect folks would just leave it in the normal 0.1C setting.

The peak ignore charger would be the same dual mode concept but in the other direction. I think the risk would be higher in this case. Not just a prematurely dimming light but a burnt pack.

Wilkey


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## SilverFox (Apr 9, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I just think you just need to tell people to use their lights more...

I am not sure how "idiot proof" this would be. As Wilkey has pointed out, there probably will be mistakes made at the cost of battery packs and lamps.

The self discharge rate on my packs is so small that it is not an issue for me. I also have two lights so run time is not a problem either.

The new improved system has a shorter run time, and I have not tested the self discharge rate of the KAN cells. Do you have any information on that?

Tom


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## Psychomodo (Apr 10, 2004)

Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Paypal and email sent - THANKS for making this a reality /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I'm really looking forward to playing...er...testing this out very soon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

CHEERS JIM /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


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## SilverFox (Apr 10, 2004)

I did some 6 minute tests last night.

Stock TigerLight starts at 8.48 volts fresh off of the charger and rapidly drops off to 6.9 volts before leveling off.

Improved TigerLight starts at 8.48 volts and levels off at 7.15 volts.

This is amazing to me. The improved system is drawing a lot more from the batteries, but the voltage of the KAN cells is able to stay up there.

Running the two lights side by side, it is obvious that the improved system is more white in color as well as brighter.

I believe a longer test would reveal more of a difference, but I am having too much fun using the light right now. Perhaps I should do a test during the day so it won't interfere with my fun...

Tom


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## SilverFox (Apr 11, 2004)

I brought out the light meter last night and got the following:

Stock TigerLight with Gen II lamp 30,960 candela.

Tigerlight with SL35X/KAN improvements 43,200 candela.

This works out to close to a 40% increase. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif need I say more...

Tom


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## Psychomodo (Apr 11, 2004)

Thanks for the info Tom. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I can't wait for my pack to arrive... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


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## js (Apr 11, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
I did some 6 minute tests last night.

Stock TigerLight starts at 8.48 volts fresh off of the charger and rapidly drops off to 6.9 volts before leveling off.

Improved TigerLight starts at 8.48 volts and levels off at 7.15 volts.

This is amazing to me. The improved system is drawing a lot more from the batteries, but the voltage of the KAN cells is able to stay up there.

Running the two lights side by side, it is obvious that the improved system is more white in color as well as brighter.

I believe a longer test would reveal more of a difference, but I am having too much fun using the light right now. Perhaps I should do a test during the day so it won't interfere with my fun...

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom,

what lamp were you using to do these tests? Because my stock battery pack wasn't able to hold much above 6.1-6.2 volts against the 35X, and my KAN pack comes in at over 7.4 volts and doesn't hit 7.2 for quite some time. Same goes for the pack I sent you. Perhaps it comes down to what you mean by "leveling off". The plateau of the KAN pack is indeed somewhere between 7.1 and 7.2 volts while driving the 35X, but as I said before, the stock battery pack I had couldn't hold anything over 6.2 or so volts with the 35X load.

On the other hand, if you were using the stock lamp assembly, it would make more sense for the stock battery pack results you got, but not as much sense for the KAN pack results.

Or--third possibility--did you do the tests side by side, as it were, with the stock pack driving the stock LA and the KAN pack driving the 35X?

As far as the dual mode charger goes, I have actually found that the 105 mA/Hr 9 cell charging rate works great for keeping the 6 cell battery pack fully charged. The fully charged pack sitting on the charger is noticeably less warm at this rate than at 185 mA. So maybe the Tiger85 charger setup also could double as a trickle/slow trickle charger.

On the other hand, I don't feel comfortable with the peak ignore dual mode fast/trickle charger. It's just so dangerous, and really, if you're going to spend $20+ dollars to mod the charger in this way, why not just get a Hitec CG340 and Cosel powersupply for $62? And this setup is useful in so many situations, not just one.

Frame57 and springnr, your field test packages went out Saturday morning. Psychomodo, yours will go out Monday morning.


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## Ginseng (Apr 11, 2004)

Jim,

I pick the average voltage for a discharge at 50% depletion on the voltage/time curve. Since the curve never has slope of zero, there is no true plateau. There is only a region of zero change in slope, or the derivative of the voltage/time curve. In any case, I have found that the rapid initial drop in voltage is almost a perfect reflection of the rapid final drop. As such, picking the 50% point gives you a pretty good "average" voltage. At this current, I'd expect the KAN to be coming around 7.2+ at the 50% point. 

Wilkey


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## Illuminated (Apr 11, 2004)

So - what can the 6-cell KAN battery pack do with the stock TL LA? More "bright" runtime?

John


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## Ginseng (Apr 11, 2004)

Jim can answer that but if and when I get a unit to test, I'll do a runtime and voltage tracking on the two LAs/packs. I just love making charts /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey


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## SilverFox (Apr 11, 2004)

Hello Jim,

The results were what I measured after running the lights for 6 minutes.

I have two lights. One is stock with the Gen II lamp, the other is the improved system with the KAN battery pack and the SL lamp. I believe this fits the third possibility you mentioned.

I did more testing with the same set up.

KAN/SL combination:
Start at 8.48 volts
6 minutes 7.15 volts
12 minutes 7.10 volts
20 minutes 7.0 volts
24 minutes 6.7 volts
28 minutes 5.0 volts

Stock battery and lamp set up:
Start at 8.48 volts
6 minutes 7.1 volts
10 minutes 7.0 volts
15 minutes 6.95 volts
20 minutes 6.9 volts
25 minutes 6.84 volts
30 minutes 6.77 volts
35 minutes 6.69 volts
40 minutes 6.6 volts
45 minutes 6.53 volts
50 minutes 6.4 volts
55 minutes 6.2 volts
60 minutes 5.7 volts
62 minutes 4.9 volts

The discharge curve for the KAN pack is basically a straight line. The stock set up has a gradually sloping line. 

I have not tried the SL lamp with a stock battery pack, or a stock lamp with the KAN battery pack. I suppose it would be worth while to check those combinations out as well.

Tom


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## SilverFox (Apr 11, 2004)

Crap!!!

My SL lamp just blew...

I guess I will have to call Sexton customer service and order a replacement...

Not sure what is going on. My lamp had less than 4 hours on it. Luck of the draw I guess...

Tom


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## Psychomodo (Apr 12, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:
...your field test packages went out Saturday morning. Psychomodo, yours will go out Monday morning. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Jim
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif*


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## js (Apr 13, 2004)

Tom,

I sent you an email; I'll send you a new 35X out Wednesday. My 35X has at least 4 hours on it and it's still going, so let's hope this is a fluke. Thanks very much for those voltage vs. time measurements. Nice. They do illustrate very well what I'm talking about. As soon as I get some spare time AND access to the internet and FTP I'm going to post some pictures of the Tiger85 charger mod and start the pack building details thread.

Psychomodo, I did in fact send out your package Monday morning. It's on its way to you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Psychomodo (Apr 13, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
Psychomodo, I did in fact send out your package Monday morning. It's on its way to you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## js (Apr 13, 2004)

OK! I've secured an accurate scale to mix my high falutin' ceramic adhesive and potting compound, so tonight I can see how my little fixture ring/potted WA lamp assembly works. This little guy will then be secured into the RF1940 with the set screw. I'm really excited about this, as it will bring about a whole new set of lamp options for both the 6 and 9 cell KAN packs. Tiger85 here we come! YES!


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## SilverFox (Apr 13, 2004)

If you look carefully you will notice that my improved TigerLight has a small "addition."







Jim,

I measured the area where the pepper spray goes and it will hold 3 AA cells with no problem. It is about the size of a D cell. If I remove the spray nozzle a D cell would probably fit.

I do not know what possibilities that opens up, but it would be fun to speculate...

Tom


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## Ginseng (Apr 13, 2004)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Uh, Jim. You're gonna make those for us MC boys too, aren't you? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Wilkey


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## js (Apr 13, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Uh, Jim. You're gonna make those for us MC boys too, aren't you? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah . . . sure. Make what? A "+" sign? or a WA lamp potted into a fixture ring for use with RF1940?


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## springnr (Apr 13, 2004)

Jim, I'm quite impressed with the build quality. The battery pack looks like it was manufactured at a first rate company.

My package was waiting when I arrived home from work yesterday. Didn't take long to swap out the parts so darkness was several hours away at that point. What the hay lets light this thing up anyway.

*SON*, after playing with Leds so much, this light should have its own planetary system. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It sure ain't hard to tell the difference the mod makes. Nice white beam too. 

Got some road work going on by my house and I walked over that way last night. Sorta cheating to light up reflective barriers but the mod did more than just make the far barrier glow it lit it UP. I just pulled up mapquest.com and it shows the distance to be 2000' - not too shabby. 

Shouldn't be too much of a chore finding a reason to exercise this battery pack and bulb combo. I appreciate you building this for me. Keith


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## js (Apr 13, 2004)

Keith,

I'm very glad you appreciate the build quality, and that you mentioned it to me. I took great pains to make those packs the best they could be in every way I could think of. I need some shrink wrap that is smaller than 2.5" but larger than the next available size I can find. As it is the shrink wrapping is very difficult for me to get right in one go. I usually take two or three tries to get it good enough. But I still would like it to look a little smoother and nicer. It's just aesthetics, but still. The little details matter.

I have drop tested my end to end solder joints, broken them apart just to check, and tried a number of different soldering set ups and techniques, surface treatments, pre-fluxing, etc., and I am very confident in any joint that passes my QC. THEN, just to make sure that the joint is not stressed in use, I wrap each one in 3 mil kapton tape, which all by itself will keep two batteries ridgidly together. I also wrap the top and bottom ends so that the thickness is the same top, bottom, and middle. Then the stacks get glued together with RTV silicone adhesive & sealant. Then I put on the 9V + and - connectors as I described in a post above. Then the jumpers from stacks 1 to 2 and 2 to 3. I use tinned copper braid good for 13 amps. I like the pre-tinned stuff as it wicks the solder less than the plain copper braid. Finally I cap the ends in two or three layers of 3 mil kapton tape, which is highly abrasion resistant and tough for its thickness. I use two layers on the connector end, and three layers on the flat end, because that end is the one most likely to get some poking from the lamp lead wire connectors. Oh yeah, and I shrink wrap and label each pack, then do some charge/discharge cycles. Still, your pack should build up more potency with the next three or four cycles.

I promise to post some of the pictures I've taken of all this, but at the moment I need to get working on SilverFox's replacement 35X and on my fixture potting scheme.


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## Frame57 (Apr 14, 2004)

Jim,
Just recieved the battery and lamps this morning (Wednesday the 14th). WOW that was fast service. I've installed the pack and the SL 35x Lamp and put it on the charger, and I can't wait untill tonight to try it out.

I'm very impressed with the build quality of the pack it looks like it was factory produced. I'd just like to say thank you for all your hardwork and effort.

I'm also interested in the WA lamp assemblies your making and my Paypal is on standby.

Jim Skinner


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## SilverFox (Apr 14, 2004)

I decided to see what the KAN battery pack was like with the stock TigerLight lamp.

I noticed around a 2% increase in brightness at the start, but that could be due to lamp variations.

The thing that is very noticeable is that the voltage stayed above 7 volts for 45 minutes. The stock battery pack drops below 7 volts after about 15 minutes. This means that it starts out bright and stays bright for an extended amount of time.

Total run time was 55 minutes with an ending voltage of 5.5 volts.

Those of you that are looking for extended brightness may want to consider Jim's battery pack. You will loose a bit of total run time, but gain brightness over an extended amount of time.

Very nice.

Tom


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## Ross (Apr 14, 2004)

That is a BIG bonus for me Tom, thanks for the test. I am a police officer and can see this helping me greatly!


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## js (Apr 15, 2004)

Here is a picture of the TL charging harness and the two wallwarts, 12V for 6 cell charging, and 15V (the tan one) for 9 cell charging:






To mod the charger you first remove the two screws holding the bottom plate on to get this:






remove one more screw and you can turn up the circuit board:






The resistor just under the LM317T (far right) is the one that sets the charging current. The stock resistor is 6.8 ohms, which yields a 185 mA charging current. I removed this resistor and soldered wires to these connections and to the center terminals of a DPDT switch. Next I soldered a new 6.8 ohm resistor across one set of terminals, and an 11.8 ohm resistor across the other set of terminals. Now when the toggle is thrown in one direction, you get 6.8 ohms and 185 mA. Throw it in the other direction and you get 105 mA. These rates match a .1C charge rate for the KAN 1800 mAHr 4/5A's and 1050 mAHr 2/3A's respectively. Here is the switch and wires to circuit board:






And here are two exterior views of the modified charging harness:









Also, as I mentioned before, the 105 mA rate works well for trickle charging a full or nearly full 6 cell pack, as it is closer to the recommended .05C rate.

I got delayed on making my fixture potted WA lamp because I wanted to be nice and replace the 9V battery on the scale I am borrowing. In the process the - harness connector rivet gave way and I had to replace it along with the battery and there wasn't much room to work on it. So that's what I did instead of making a first try on my fixture potting idea. With a lack of bad luck or a little bit of good luck, I will do it tonight instead.


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## Frame57 (Apr 15, 2004)

Well for what it's worth here's my observations on the Tigerlight Upgrade.

The amount of light the upgrade puts out is incredible. Doing a ceiling bounce test and compairing the stock lamp to the SL 35X the SL 35X puts out significantly more light than the stock lamp. In addition the slightly satiny finish of the SL 35x reflector produces much better beam quality than the very shiny finish of the stock lamps reflector.

As for throw there is really not much in it. In my opinion the SL 35X throws just a bit further than the stock lamp and produces a brighter sidespill. It really lights up quite a large area.

I was quite surprised by the amount of heat this thing produces. At a distance of six inches on exposed skin it gets uncomfortably hot. This is definately not a toy to let the kiddies play with!

The amazing thing is that this is probably one of the brightest handheld incandescent flashlights in the world. Not counting modified lights I'd imagine only the Surefire M6 or the 10X Dominator would really compare, and my modified Tigerlight is only a fraction of the cost of either of the Surefires. Not to mention the compact form factor of my Tigerlight FBOP makes it easier to carry than a Modified Magcharger with similar specification.

If you can't tell already I'm over the moon with my modified Tigerlight and I'd like to give a big Well Done to Jim Sexton for all his hard work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## js (Apr 16, 2004)

*It worked! WA offerings now a reality!*

Frame57,

You're very welcome! Thank you.

But get ready for EVEN MORE LIGHT!

*IT WORKED! IT WORKED!* Ginseng, my fixture potting idea worked like a charm. I'm so pleased.

Here's what I did. I took a small 3/8" o.d. metal ring--it's actually simply cut from 3/8" o.d. tubing--and I covered the bottom with paper tape and wrapped it up securely around the ring. Then I centered the lamp leads in the ring and pushed them down through the tape. Then I mixed up my Cotronics 940LE adhesive and worked it around the lamp. I actually used a plastic syringe to do this and this was only the first time, so I put a bit too much potting compound in and got a tiny bit on the lamp above the level of the potting. But what of that? Then I carefully centered it once the potting was in place, threw it in my oven for 15 minutes at 200 F and VOILA! Oh, it was held by a vise on the workbench and by a c-clamp in the oven. You couldn't just lay it in sideways, the lamp would go off axis.

Here is the result:










And here is the fixture ring lamp assembly in a Medium Orange peel Carley RF1940 reflector:









So, guess what the first lamp I potted was? The 1185 of course. I installed my 9 cell pack and the WA 1185/Carley 1940 and walked out at dusk and waited for the true dark. oh, and BTW, I found installing adjusting and securing the fixture ring w/ lamp to be a dream. Once it was really dark, I turned on my Tiger85. Again, all I can say is *AWESOME BRIGHTNESS*. I'm in love. I love this beam. You do see the bi-lobed hot spot a bit, but I didn't mind it at all, and the orange peeling on the 1940 made for a very, very nice beam. I prefer it to the SL-35X, plus it is nearly twice as bright. At least it feels that way to me. This is the brightest thing I have ever had. Car headlights on high kind of brightness. It's no Aurora, but I couldn't be more pleased.

I had no problems running continuously. The potting compound did not off-gas or spew particulates or crack or anything. This is really good stuff. It was expensive but it was worth every penny.

Next time on "All my TigerLights" I'll pot a WA 1111, and modify the 1940's I have so I can use them with the rubber hose installed. As it was I simply left it out and was careful not to tip the light upside down.

Cheers! YE HA! YES! YES!


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: It worked! WA offerings now a reality!*

WTG Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

I haven't received my SL-35X mod yet (I know it's on the way though) but put me down for this Tiger85 mod - Paypal at the ready /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Colin /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: It worked! WA offerings now a reality!*

Nice work Jim! You really have advanced the hot wire state of the art. Some well deserved /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif are in order. I can't wait to get one to try in the MC. It looks like it might be a tad long to ensure focus in the short MC mechanism but I'll find out. Doesn't look like it would be a problem to make shorter for the MC.

Again, fantastic work. As far as I'm concerned, you are now a bona fide "Hot Wire Guy" Elite! Nicely done /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wilkey


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## js (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: It worked! WA offerings now a reality!*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
Nice work Jim! You really have advanced the hot wire state of the art. Some well deserved /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif are in order. I can't wait to get one to try in the MC. It looks like it might be a tad long to ensure focus in the short MC mechanism but I'll find out. Doesn't look like it would be a problem to make shorter for the MC.

Again, fantastic work. As far as I'm concerned, you are now a bona fide "Hot Wire Guy" Elite! Nicely done /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow! Thanks Wilkey. Comming from you this is high praise indeed. I'm happy simply to be considered one of the "hot wire guys", let alone one of the "elite"!

As for the length, I should have mentioned that I trimmed the bi-pin lamp wires so that the TL connectors would slide all the way on. The bottom of the potting material is almost exactly on a level with the glass protrusion which would prevent further insertion into a socket anyway. Or were you thinking of the top end clearance? I made the metal ring the thickness I did so that the set screw would bite into it when the lamp is at the optimal focus, but for the MC, I could make that ring as short as you want, and as you pointed out, it will make a great heat shield.

Also, I should point out once more that this set up allows one to switch reflectors with ease. Last night I used both the smooth and orange peel reflectors. Careful, though, these bad boys get HOT with the 1185 in them. No over heating issues have reared their ugly heads yet, however. There's no socket at all in the TL, which is good and bad. Good because there's none to melt; bad because it forces me to make up the fixture ring lamp assemblies. But once I get it down, that should be a simple matter. In any case, I'll do a continuous full burn indoors with the 1185 to see how everything stands up to the heat. Just to be sure.

BTW, anyone can buy the Cotronics 940LE, but it is $70 a pint and doesn't come in any smaller sizes. Plus it must be mixed by weight so you will need not just a "gram" scale, but a scale accurate down to a tenth of a gram. It need not have much of a capacity, though. 100 grams would be WAY more capacity than needed. I mixed up a 1.8 g activator with 4.1 g of powder, for a total of 5.9 grams, and it would have been enough for half a dozen lamps. Or maybe more! Fortunately, I don't see a shelf life on this stuff. It's excellent adhesive and potting compound, though. It is low expansion (hench the "LE") to match the expansion of the glass, and it bonds to most anything. It doesn't release volatile organics when curing; can cure at room temperature in 24 hours, or 5-15 minutes at 200 F; it will take service temperatures up to 2500 F (talk about overkill!); and it is strong and tough; I know because I had to sand off a bit of it in places. At first I thought I could just chip it off, based on my experience with the SL-35X LA's, but it simply wouldn't chip off. I plan on using this for my mag drop-in switch assy too. I'm glad I took the gamble on this stuff, but it was a pretty sure bet, seeing as how a scientist/engineer at cotronics told me it was what I needed. All right, I'm rambling now. It's just too cool to have this come together faster than I expected.

I would try to post beam shots, but as you can tell from the spotty quality pictures above, I'm still only just learning how to use my digital camera. Plus, S4MadMan is set up to do this sort of thing way better than I will ever be.


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: It worked! WA offerings now a reality!*

Hello Jim,

It looks like you have another winner in the making. 

Any idea of run time?

Tom


----------



## js (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: It worked! WA offerings now a reality!*

Hi Tom! Did you get your new 35X yet?

The 1185 running on the 9 cell KAN 1050 pack has a calculated runtime of 18 minutes. That's from the WA re-rating formulas and the 1050 mAHr capacity of the batteries. But given the discrepancy we found with the 35X/KAN 1800 setup, my best guess is 17 minutes of runtime. But it's a really awesome 17 minutes! You'd get more than 17 if you run intermittently and not continuously.


----------



## kubolaw (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: It worked! WA offerings now a reality!*

Wow Jim! Another great episode of "As The Tigerlight Turns (into something amazing)". Can't wait for the next installment!

John


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## Ginseng (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: It worked! WA offerings now a reality!*

Me neither. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Who needs stock lights? 

Wilkey


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: It worked! WA offerings now a reality!*

Hello Jim,

Not yet.

17 minutes, not bad... Now you need to come up with a rapid charger...

Tom


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## js (Apr 16, 2004)

Tom,

The best rapid charger set up would be the Hitec CG340 ($38) powered by a cosel from www.ramboy.com ($24 shipped). So, for $65 or so depending on shipping, you have a charger that will peak charge almost any battery pack out there, NiCd or NiMH. It will charge the 6 cell KAN pack in an hour and a quarter or so, and the 9 cell pack in as fast as 45 minutes or so. (It has a 1.5 amp max charging current for NiMH).

I mean, why not have a fast charger that can fast charge more than just one light?

But in any event, I found out that the LM317T can be configured to switch charging currents once it hits a given voltage, so a relatively inexpensive TL charger may just turn out to be part of the TL upgrade thread offerings! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Really, though, trickle charging isn't all that inconvenient and it's cheap to build a trickle charger.


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## js (Apr 17, 2004)

This isn't the most exciting update, but I finally put a Carley RF1940 on the lathe:






As you can see, I turned down the nub to just over .700 inches, and did a quick and dirty free hand curve near the nub and at the rim. When I figure out the correct profile for use with the rubber hose in the TL, then I'll clean it up a bit. I'm not sure why, but Carley sure makes their reflector nubs very very thick. Even after all the metal I removed, there is still plenty of thickness to completely encompass the set screw!

Field testers, I will be sending out an email soon with some questions and requests. I'm particularly anxious to know whether or not SilverFox's lamp blow out was just random chance or is indicative of a very short lifespan at 7.2 volts. If so, I will not be offering SL-35X LA, stock or modded, as the 1111 is every bit as bright or brighter, is cheaper even with the RF1940 included, and can be replaced for less than $5 when it has lived out its 11 hour lifespan, now that I have the fixture ring potting up and running.


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## SilverFox (Apr 17, 2004)

Hello "Elite Hot Wire Guy" and "Bodacious Battery Pack Assembler" - Jim,

My lamp has arrived and is being "tortured" as I post.

Tom


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## js (Apr 18, 2004)

Tom,

Excellent news. Glad to hear it. How about torturing some WA lamps in a Carley reflector, too?

Last night I potted an 1111 and a 1274 into fixture rings and also did a runtime and heat test of the 1185. I got 16 and a half minutes of runtime, but the battery pack wasn't 100 percent as I had done a bit with it early that evening, and also because it is still developing capacity, so I think it is safe to say that the runtime of the 1185 and KAN 1050 pack should be a full 17 minutes. Possibly more, but at least 17. The TL got pretty hot, as you can imagine, running this 35 watt lamp! However, at all times, anything below the gold ring was able to be held for any length of time. Right near the ring was rather uncomfortable to keep hold of, and right near the end was not uncomfortable at all. Keep in mind that I did this test inside--no wind, and 70 degrees. Walking outside with the light would have made for a cooler run. I wanted to test the extreme case of constant on, no wind, and fairly warm surrounding air. Above the gold ring was a bit more dicey! I could not hold onto the head for more than a second, but it was not hot enough to burn me before my brain insisted that it was time to let go. When the light had cooled down a bit, I took the bezel off and was glad to see that the o-rings were not welded to anything and that the rubber hose was not melted to the reflector. The connectors and shrink wrap were also fine. So the short of the Tiger85 testing last night was:

1. 17 minutes of runtime.
2. No real heat issues.

Excellent results in my opinion.

I tested the 1111 and as I guessed, it is every bit as bright as the SL-35X. I really need two TL's to test the setups side by side but I would say that the 35X probably has fewer beam artificats and slightly more throw, but the 1111 has whiter light and more spill and slightly more total output. Just an informed guess, however.

I tested the 1274 as well, and I am depressingly aware of a singular psychological phenomenon that is descending upon me. I am becoming spoiled; I am becoming jaded. The 1274, the 7.2 volt, 2.77 amp, 20 watt, beautifully white, Welch Allyn Halogen 553 lumen lamp was simply too dim for my tastes. I was thinking, "Oh, great, look what Wilkey has done to me. Soon I won't be satisfied with anything but an Aurora with HOLA installed. Thanks a LOT, Wilkey!" Just kidding! But I really was somewhat underwhelmed by the 1274, and this thing is a step up in brightness from the stock LA. Nice beam, though, and it should have close to a 40 minute runtime.

Plus--and this is the real hope for the 1274--it may work OK with the stock battery pack. Unfortunately, I no longer have my stock pack as it was sacrificed so I could learn end to end soldering. But I will send a potted 1274 installed in a 1940 to SilverFox and/or S4MadMan depending on who flatters me the most. "Elite Hot Wire Guy" is good, Tom, but "Bodacious Battery Pack Assembler" leaves me a bit luke warm. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif I have my doubts about whether or not the stock pack can handle an extra amp of current draw without dropping down in voltage and losing too much capacity to internal resistance. But still, it's worth a try.


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## Ginseng (Apr 18, 2004)

Jim,
The downward spiral has begun for you my friend. In the not too distant future, you'll find yourself dazed and destitute, sitting in a corner of a dark alley waiting for rats to scurry by so you can hit them with the beam from your last, your only real friend, the JWX. As you're walking down the street, late at night, you'll hear yourself saying over and over again, "Hey buddy, can you spare a lumen?"

Or perhaps a brighter destiny awaits. You'll be posting the story of a light that is so versatile, so powerful that all will cringe before it, hands clasped firmly over their stunned, inadequate eyes.

The choice is yours. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, back to reality. The WA01274 is not at its best on 6 cells. It takes 7 cells to really bring it alive. Count on that extra 1.15V to make a big difference. 

Since I intend to get in line for some of these potted bulbs, I'll try..."Photonic Kahuna" or maybe "Sir Lights A-Lot." How's that? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wilkey


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## js (Apr 18, 2004)

Consider me dubbed. Sir Lights A-Lot at your service. You win the 1111 and 1185 potted bulb contest. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just let me know the height of the fixture ring you would prefer.

Ah yes. The JWX. The JWX is what keeps me going through all of this, my friend, through the long hard hours of pack building, a vision of a brighter destiny, a versatile, powerful, incontestable destiny. Ah yes. *ALL WILL BOW BEFORE IT AND CRINGE! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA A A A*

(Eyes go dazed again. Mutters. Hard to understand. Something about "JWX". More muttering. Must be that downward spiral--the OTHER destiny. Sad. Very sad. Those TL upgrades had promise. Alas, alack.)


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## SilverFox (Apr 18, 2004)

Hello Jim,

It would appear that you battery pack is no match for the SL35X lamp. My second lamp blew after about 1 hour of service. I had run two cycles of around 25 minutes and it blew when I turned it on to run a third cycle.

I pull my TigerLight with the KAN battery pack off the charger and measure 8.63 volts. I let it sit for about a half hour and turn it on.

When this lamp blew I quickly measured the voltage and it was at 8.55 volts.

Am I missing something? 

It could get expensive replacing lamps every few hours. Has anyone else had problems with the SL35X lamp?

Tom


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## Ginseng (Apr 18, 2004)

It sounds like the lamp is no match for the KAN pack. That is too bad. Well, I'll be running the SL-35X LA on 6x1/2D nimh soon so I'll let you know if that goes any better.

At 1.43V/cell, that pack is absolutely fresh and full. Is there room to slip in a small resistor?

Wilkey


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## springnr (Apr 18, 2004)

I've run a several cycles on mine, so far so good. Ran a full charge off all at once last night during a walk. I have been resting the light a couple of hours before use, it just worked out that way waiting for it to get dark.


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## SilverFox (Apr 18, 2004)

Hello Wilkey,

I mentioned the resistor idea to Jim and he thought it would be counter productive to all the effort he put into directly soldering the cells together to eliminate resistance in the first place.

Springnr,

Do you have a volt meter? It would be interesting to compare voltages.

I am thinking it takes a dozen cycles or so to get these cells at their full capacity. I have noticed minor improvements with each cycle. I don't think it gets much better than 1.43 volts/cell. I believe I was at 8.58 volts when I first installed the KAN pack.

Tom


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## Ginseng (Apr 19, 2004)

Tom,

The open circuit fully charged voltage does not seem to change all that much as my pack undergoes more and more cycles. The slopes and length of the plateau stopped changing after maybe 5 cycles. At 4.8-8.3A, this is what I've found for the KANs. It will be about another 2-3 weeks before the supplemental 1/2D nimh show up though, so it'll be that long before I can provide data on that configuration. 

I agree that backadding resistance seems counterproductive. I think Jim's feeling that the WA01111 may be the "proper" 6-cell bulb upgrade may be on the button. I defer to his experience on this as I know that he will not release any mod without fully testing it. You guys are getting to see all the foibles of these pre-release mods as part of the field-test team.

Wilkey


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## js (Apr 19, 2004)

At the moment it isn't looking too good for the 35X with the 6 cell KAN pack. It may just be bad luck twice in a row, but I doubt this is the case. I have not yet blown my 35X and I have about 3 hours on it and maybe 20-25 turn ons. This is where the lamp will blow: at turn on with a fully charged pack. So for now, you field testers should think twice before pulling your TL/35X/KAN setup right off the charger and pushing the button. A rest of 2 hours may be sufficient to take the edge off, as it were. In the next few days I will do some intensive torturing of my 35X LA to see if I can get it to blow. Depending on how this goes, and depending on what Wilkey's findings are, I may strongly discourage use of the 35X LA with the KAN packs. But however that turns out, I will not spend any more money on these things. I've already taken a loss on them and I really dislike trimming down the rims. For those people who want to use the 35X, I will detail exactly how I trim the rims, and also repeat my advice to use them stock with an SI UCL and no bezel o-ring. I would probably be willing to buy some for those who live outside the USA and are willing to take the gamble, but otherwise I suggest www.brightguy.com for anyone else.

Of course, if Tom was just extremely unlucky and no one else is able to blow their 35X LA, I will reassess the situation. The next week will tell.

In any case, if the WA re-rating formulas and experience with the WA 1185 are anything to go on, the 1111 should work out just fine, and I think the beam from the 1111 in an orange peel RF1940 is very nice indeed. I put all of my different flavors of 1940 on the lathe and tried a few different contours. So far all of the ones I've tried have worked fine, so it seems the rubber hose is not that sensitive to the profile of the back of the reflector. Good news, as it is hard to repeat the same profile again and again by hand.

I've been playing with my Tiger85 and I just love it. Awesome brightness, nice beam, all in the same small, agreeable TL FBOP package that I've come to know and love. 17 minutes of runtime is the only drawback. Oh well, there are always trade offs. I strongly caution people against getting this option from me when it becomes available, as it will make everything else except HID lights and an Aurora look dim. It's hard to go back. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The 1111 is still acceptableto me, however. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously though, the more I do this modding, the more I am impressed with the stock TL. They get some pretty serious intensity and throw in a small package with over an hour runtime. Impressive.


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 19, 2004)

Hello Jim,

Yes, stock TigerLights are a great light.

I just checked the voltage of my KAN pack after resting overnight and it is down to 8.17 volts. Is that extra 0.38 volts that significant? If it is, we are at the edge of that lamps working voltage.

Looking forward to the 1111, but in the meantime I'll just have to play with my HID lights...

Tom


----------



## springnr (Apr 19, 2004)

I got the Fluke out and took some measurements.

I didn't use the light last night so it had sit a day after charging. I put the leads on the charging terminals and read 8.00v so I put the light in the charging cradle for two hours. 

When I removed it from the cradle I took a reading every half hour for 2 hours then ran the batteries down.

8.51 0.0 hrs
8.26 0.5 hrs
8.21 1.0 hrs
8.18 1.5 hrs
8.15 2.0 hrs

The lights back on the charger now and I'll check it tomorrow when it comes off.


----------



## js (Apr 20, 2004)

springnr,

Great, this is about right, then. So for those of you field testers who want to be on the safer side, waiting 2 hours for the pack o.c. voltage to come down may be a good idea. Or it may be that SilverFox was extraordinarily unlucky. Or it may be that the 35X LA will simply not tolerate this level of overdrive. I have not yet started my intensive blow-out testing of the 35X LA. I was busy with other things last night, although it was so nice out that I did take the time to go for a night stroll with my Tiger85. I just love that light.

I will also put some 1111's through some demanding testing to see how it will hold up to a 20 percent overdrive. I expect it will do just fine.

On a miscellaneous note, I have abandoned the idea of replacing the charging harness spring. I was told (and I believe it) that the spring is none too strong if the harness is mounted upside down or tilted somewhat upside down (as in a vehicle, where mounting options may be limited).


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 20, 2004)

Hello Jim,

It must have been a short stroll... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tom


----------



## js (Apr 20, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Jim,

It must have been a short stroll... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Who says I was running the Tiger85 constant on? I know this might sound heretical, but I love walking in the dark along a well known route. The Tiger85 can be held in reserve for those odd noises, or forks in the path, or for those times you simply have to experience that awesome brightness again. Plus, run intermittently, I think I'm getting more runtime.

But, actually /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif it was a short stroll.


----------



## cue003 (Apr 20, 2004)

js you have a pm!!


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## springnr (Apr 20, 2004)

I took the light off the charger when I got in from work tonight. It was on the charger for around 19 hours. The readings are very close to what I got yesterday. 

8.50 0.0 hrs
8.29 0.5 hrs
8.24 1.0 hrs
8.21 1.5 hrs
8.18 2.0 hrs
8.15 3.0 hrs


----------



## js (Apr 21, 2004)

Well, I have been trying very hard and often to blow my 35X LA and I haven't been able to do it. My pack is coming off the charger at 8.53 or so volts. I turn it on within a minute of taking it off the charger. The under load voltage is over 8.0 volts for the first few seconds, and over 7.7 volts for the first ten seconds, and I still haven't blow my 35X LA. I have flash-tested it like this over a dozen times since yesterday. After the initial off-the-charger test, I do 2 or 3 further on-off tests, waiting some time in between for the filament to cool. Thus, I have turned my 35X LA on some 30 times in the past 24 hours. I will also do some intensive full burn testing tonight.

Interesting. The 35X LA is still up in the air it seems. I may have to trim down rims after all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Tom, maybe I'll send you yet another 35X to see whether or not you ended up with the *SUPER KAN PACK* or something?!? Or maybe you forgot my proviso about not drop testing and are still using your TL's to keep the Boy Scouts in line. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif

Also, I have realized the most obvious thing about lamp potting. (Isn't it odd how the obvious things are sometimes the last things one notices). I have realized that the important thing is to center *the filament* and not the glass, because the filament is not always perfectly centered in the glass. Obvious, isn't it?


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 21, 2004)

Hello Jim,

This is most confusing. Perhaps my charger is a little hotter. I am measuring 16.55 volts open circuit. I have another charger and will do some checking with that.

Tom


----------



## js (Apr 21, 2004)

Tom,

Nope. That sounds about right. The charger goes to its maximum voltage when you open circuit it because it is trying to regulate to the current, which is zero, thus it tries it's hardest to get more current and pushes the voltage to it's maximum.

Besides, if you did have a "hot" charger, it would not bring your battery pack to it's most potent. It would in fact dammage your pack and reduce it's potency. Ginseng wisely pointed out to me that all manufactured products fall onto various bell-curves for their various parameters. It is entirely possible, however unlikely, that you got two 35X LA's that were both off two or three standard deviations in an important parameter. Or it may be that I got a 35X LA with a larger filament size or something so that it will stand up. We don't know, and Ginseng has pointed out to me that we will never really know with any acceptable level of certainty unless we were to test 100 35X LA's or more.

I will accept use of the 35X LA if your experience turns out to be the exception, but if S4MadMan or myself or one of the other field testers blows another 35X LA after a couple, four hours or less, then I will officially caution people against using it.

If you want to check your charger, check to see what current it is providing. I do this by removing the pack from the light and attaching a spare 9 V harness to the pack. Then I put a Fluke in series with one of the leads and touch the DMM lead and the other 9 V harness lead to the charging terminals. Orient the charger with the wallwart cable going DOWN. In this orientation, the TOP contact is positive, thus matching up with the charging contact on the TL body which is farthest away from the head and which is also positive. On the bare pack, the smaller of the contacts is positive. Keep in mind that this will match up with the LARGER of the mating harness contacts, male/female style.

Anyway, you should measure something close to 185 mA. But as I said before, an off-spec charger would not really make your pack "hotter". A lower charging current will yield a slightly higher off the charger pack voltage, but I wouldn't think that would be very significant.

But in any case, relax, we need more data to really know what the situation is. Time will tell.


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 21, 2004)

Hello Jim,

Send me a 100 lamps and I'll go through them... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tom


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## Frame57 (Apr 21, 2004)

Just got back from walking my dog in the local park where it's nice and dark, and in my opinion the KAN pack with the SL-35x is amazing. I could see a definite wash of light on houses that were at least 250 yds away even with interference from streetlights near the houses, but more than that this light puts out a real wall of light. Standing at one end of a football pitch it easily lit up the whole pitch all the way to the opposite goal (100 yds). This light really turns night into day! If Size 15's is out there I'd like to meet up and challenge him to a duel, my Tigerlight Vs. his Surefire M6 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

I've also done two complete cycles and have got 30 Mins run time each cycle. My test consisted of removing the light from the charger after at least 10 hours of charging and immediately switching it on and starting my timer and switching the light off and stoping the timer when the light starts to go yellow. The SL-35X Lamp is holding up nicely, but so far I only have about 2 hours run time on it. But switching it on directly off the charger has had no effect on the lamp that I can tell.

This weekend I'll go to some woods a short drive away which have no street lighting near by and are about as dark as I can get locally (It's hard to find really dark places outdoors in South East England). That should really give an idea of maximum throw of this light.


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## js (Apr 22, 2004)

Tom,

I'm getting a package ready for you, Tom. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I've been a side tracked with non-flashlight stuff, lately. There's some woman in my house who says she's my wife. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Frame57, this is good stuff. I'm very pleased that your 35X LA is holding up and that you are getting 30 minutes of runtime. As for a duel with an M6, you'd better be careful! SureFire is pretty conservative in their ratings, and then there is the difference between bulb-lumens and torch-lumens. Even so, the TL35X/KAN is probably on a par with an M6. You'll need a Tiger85 to really trounce it, though. Also, keep in mind the M6 has a 3" reflector.

I did a runtime test of the 1111 last night and I got 28+ minutes until 5.0 volts, so this is a little more than predicted.


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## js (Apr 23, 2004)

Tom, your package went out today. I sent you a ring-potted WA 1274 in a smooth Carley RF1940 reflector. I focused it already and tightened the set screw, so you shouldn't have to do anything except install it. If you want, a 2 mm allen wrench will fit the set screw and allow you to move the ring in and out to change the focus. I have it at its tightest focus. What I really would like to know is how the 1274 works with the stock battery pack, and after that, how it works with the KAN 1800 pack. Runtimes, voltages, field test notes, and so on.

I also sent you another SL-35X LA. This is the one I have been using and more recently, trying to blow to no avail. Do what you will with it. You might first see if always waiting 2 hours off the charger keeps it alive and then switch to more punishing testing to see if you can blow it.

On the same note, S4MadMan blew the SL-35X LA I sent him. It happened when he tested the TL/35X/KAN right off the charger, so I think we are begining to see a pattern here. At this time I do not think that SilverFox was just really unlucky. I think we are in the "insta-flash" range of overdrive with the 35X LA in the Tiger. It's a really unique and in many ways very pleasing beam, and it is bright and white, so I suspect that many people will still risk this level of overdrive, but be advised, it will insta-flash some of the time.

I will order some of the 2150mAH Sanyo HR-4/5AU batteries to see how they perform when driving these various lamps. They have a higher internal resistance than the KAN's, which in the case of the 35X LA's may be a good thing! And they should yield extra run-time when driving the stock TL LA and possibly some extra runtime with the other setups as well. We shall see.

S4MadMan is in fact working on his review as I write this (he has extra 35X LA's) and I hope to see a review from him sometime early next week, although he didn't give me a time estimate, so don't hold him to it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif .

The WA 1111 has not exhibited any insta-flash tendencies in my testing so far, and judging by the starting and ending currents, I am guessing we are overdriving this less than the 35X LA, so I am very hopeful that the 1111 will serve out it's 11 hours of life with honors at least and then most likely continue to work for many more hours at declining brightness. We shall see.

Also, Colin, are you back from Spain yet? Did you get the pack and LA's I sent you?


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 23, 2004)

Hello Jim,

While I am not glad Dan flashed his 35X, I am pleased that the problem is not only with my light.

Looking forward to playing with new combinations... er testing I mean.

In the mean time, I am enjoying an extended time of brightness with the stock lamp.

Tom


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 23, 2004)

Jim,
After our conversation and your posting, it is starting to sound like the 4/5AU might be a good choice. It should drop the initial voltage spike and take the instantaneous voltage down into the safe range much more quickly than with the KAN cells. Dang. I guess sometimes you _can_ have too much *oomph* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

BTW, I hope the coining of the phrase "Insta-Flash" doesn't get back to me...although I sure know what that's all about. Maybe Polaroid owns the trademark. I bet you could buy it off of them for about $3.50 these days.

Wilkey


----------



## springnr (Apr 23, 2004)

I spent a little time thinking about the bulbs flashing this week and thought if you could soft start the bulb more bulb options would be available to try.

At first I thought I had a simple solution in a NTC Thermistor but these are mainly used as surge control devices in power supplies on the 110V line so the units I looked at were too low of a wattage spec. Might find something but doubt it. Would be sweet fix though as they could start at a couple of ohms and then go to .1 ohms or less fairly quick. Allowing the bulb to soft start but still have full power after that.

Then I decided why not an RC time contstant with the bulb as the R. Great if you want the capacitor to be as big as the flashlight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Could do an RC controling a transistor but your moving away from simplicity plus a .7 drop then.


----------



## Frame57 (Apr 23, 2004)

Well my SL-35x blew tonight I switched it on directly after taking it off the charger and POOF it was gone. the filament blew on one of the straight leads not the coil. Fortuanately I've still got another SL-35X and I'll just remember to rest the light for 30 mins or so after taking it off the charger.


----------



## brightnorm (Apr 23, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
Tom,

...Also, keep in mind the M6 has a 3" reflector... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it's 2.5" (bezel dia) but since the Tigerlight's is 2 3/8" the M6 has a slight advantage. The Super-Tigerlight should really be compared to the X10 since it too is rechargeable. If you can get equal or greater brightness from the Tiger with equal or greater runtime you will have trumped Surefire's brightest light in a relatively inexpensive package. That would be an impressive achievement!

Brightnorm


----------



## springnr (Apr 23, 2004)

I found some more thermistors. I may order some samples and give them a whirl just for grins to see what the initial voltage drop looks like on an O'scope. 

Thermistors for surge limiting 

15mm 

SL15 2R509


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## SilverFox (Apr 24, 2004)

Hello Brightnorm,

If I checked my numbers correctly, I believe the stock TigerLight will out throw the 10X. Doug (Quickbeam) lists the throw for the 10X as 154.92. Square that and you come up with 24000 candela. The stock TigerLight is about 31000 candela and the improved version is up to 43200 candela.

I must quickly add that the overall output of the 10X is massive. It is quite a bit more than either the stock or improved TigerLight. The SL 35X lamp make good progress towards closing the gap, but the 10X still Dominates.

Tom


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 24, 2004)

Hello Frame57,

Both of my 35X lamps blew when the light had been off of the charger for a minimum of 30 minutes. I am growing cautious and think I may wait an hour before turning it on. I may get fancy and just wait until the voltage drops to 8.2 volts before turning it on. According to Springnr's measurements, that should be in the 90-120 minute range.

I wonder how the beam of the 1111 will be compared to the 35X?...

Tom


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 24, 2004)

Tom,

See my post in the MagCharger Heat Shield thread for a WA01111 versus SL-35X LA comparo. Granted, it's with 5 cells, but they'll look the same only whiter and brighter on 6.

Wilkey


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 24, 2004)

Hello Wilkey,

I saw your post. I was wondering if the Carley reflector would be a bit different than the Mag Charger reflector.

I was also giving Jim a bit of a nudge. I believe he sent me a 1274, but your 1111 looks quite good.

Tom


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 24, 2004)

Tom,

As for collimation performance, I've found the Carley RF1940 and Mag D/C to be identical. The MC reflector appears to be identical to the other two. In other words, bulbs focus and defocus the same way with the same visual appearance with all three reflectors, coatings notwithstanding.

Wilkey


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## brightnorm (Apr 24, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
... The SL 35X lamp make good progress towards closing the gap, but the 10X still Dominates.

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, thanks.

BN


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 24, 2004)

BN,
The TL85 and MC85 are the rechargeable lights that whip the 10X. Not by a landslide mind you, but so certainly in terms of runtime. The MC85 will deliver its punch for 45 minutes, more than double the 10X. 
Wilkey


----------



## bwaites (Apr 24, 2004)

Wilkey,

Is the Carley a drop in for the C/D Mags? 

If not, is there a metal Drop in? How about a textured one?

Bill


----------



## kongfuchicken (Apr 24, 2004)

I think the Carley RF1940 needs to be slightly modified to fit in a mag head...


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 24, 2004)

Bill, it is not a direct drop in. I did a How-To thread in the mods forum many months back. Had directions and pictures. Might be worth looking it up. Basically, you need to machine lip and bore out the ream or bulb hole.

Wilkey


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 24, 2004)

Oh, 
There are no direct drop-ins. Not even the MagCharger reflector.
Wilkey


----------



## brightnorm (Apr 25, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
BN,
The TL85 and MC85 are the rechargeable lights that whip the 10X. Not by a landslide mind you, but so certainly in terms of runtime. The MC85 will deliver its punch for 45 minutes, more than double the 10X. 
Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

Wilkey,

Isn't the TL85 800+ lumens versus the 10X's 500+ L pretty much of a landslide, or have I mixed my figures? 

I can understand that the superlamps won't out-throw the stock lamp because of their thicker filiments, but why doesn't the KAN pack provide a longer total run (not just a longer bright run) than the stock pack?

BN


----------



## js (Apr 25, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*brightnorm said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
BN,
The TL85 and MC85 are the rechargeable lights that whip the 10X. Not by a landslide mind you, but so certainly in terms of runtime. The MC85 will deliver its punch for 45 minutes, more than double the 10X. 
Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

Wilkey,

Isn't the TL85 800+ lumens versus the 10X's 500+ L pretty much of a landslide, or have I mixed my figures? 

I can understand that the superlamps won't out-throw the stock lamp because of their thicker filiments, but why doesn't the KAN pack provide a longer total run (not just a longer bright run) than the stock pack?

BN 

[/ QUOTE ]

BN,

The Tiger85 delivers 1233 bulb-lumens according to the WA re-rating formulas. Taking 75 percent of that gives a slightly optimistic estimate of torch-lumens = 924 lumens. I think the 75 percent is justified because the Carley reflectors with the vacuum metalizing are shiny, shiny, shiny! Highly reflective little guys. The filament of an 1185 is definitely larger than the stock TL LA filament, but the 1111 filament is on a par with it. I can get just as tight a beam with the 1111 as my stock LA has. The throw of the 35X LA is reduced because it has a micro-stippled satin finish reflector which really smears out beam artifacts but also kicks the heck out of the beam and reduces the throw. An 1111 in a smooth Carley 1940 throws farther than the stock LA, as well as a 1274 in a smooth 1940. For that matter, all of the WA lamps in any of my Carley reflectors, orange peel or smooth, will out throw the stock LA.

I do not have a 10X with which to compare my Tiger85, and I know that SF is very conservative in their lumens ratings, but the Tiger85 puts out a *MASSIVE* amount of light. I could use it in place of my headlights while driving down the road at night. It runs for 17+ minutes constant burn, or somewhat longer used intermittently.

As for the KAN pack vs. the stock pack in terms of runtime with the stock LA, the stock batteries are nominally 2000 mAH, but I'm sure that is their capacity at a .1C discharge, or some other unrealistic scenario. Still, they do get more runtime with the stock LA than the KAN's do. At first I thought the stock batteries must have been 1800 mAH because everyone kept saying the TL charged in 10 hours, and the charger puts out 185 mA, so that yields 1850 mAH. Plus the stock setup draws 1.7A for 1.1 hours yields 1870 mAH.

But no, not the case. The capacity at a 1C discharge appears to be around 1900 or slightly under, which is slightly more than the KAN 1800's. So that's why the KAN pack won't run as long with the stock LA. Also, nowhere does it say that the TL charges in 10 hours. I read that on CPF, but it is not in the manual, and in truth can not be the case with a 185mA charge rate and 2000 mAH batteries.

Ginseng, I also am excited about the Sanyo HR-4/5AU's. It's about $10 more per pack in batteries, but I think that you were right from the beginning to recommend them. The 25 mOhm internal resistance bothered me, as well as the discharge curves, but after experience with the KAN 1800's and their discharge curves (and you giving them the nod), I see that the 4/5AU's are still pretty darn good and certainly more than adequate for the current draws we are considering here. I have some on the way to me even as I write this.

Tom,

It has taken some experimenting for me to get my potting technique down, and unfortunately, not one of the four 1111's I have potted so far came out with a centered filament. Two drifted in the oven, and on the other two I centered the glass and not the filament, and unfortunately the filament was not exactly centered in the glass. Also, I had originally thought that the most important thing was to align the filament perpendicular to it's long axis, but no, the most important thing is to center the long axis in the ring.

Fortunately I have my technique pretty much down now and I have turned out a perfect 1274 (which I sent you) and two perfect 1185's. I still have one 1111 left to pot, but I am holding off on that until I have field tested the lamps I have already ring-potted. I don't want to waste the last 1111. I have one worry about the ring-potting scheme, and I want to satisfy myself that it is groundless before I pot my 1111, or any other lamp for that matter. I'm worried that the potted lamp will separate from the ring with repeated thermal cycling. My first ring-potted 1185 separated from the ring, but I'm almost sure that was due to the fact that in my excitement and hurry I forgot to clean the inside of the ring and there was some oil or something in it. I have put my other ring-potted lamps though daily testing and so far so good. I am pretty confident that my scheme is sound, but better safe than sorry. The 940LE is made precisely for this application and I'm sure it is up to the task; it's just not up to the task of bonding to a dirty surface, as the directions indicate. In any case, I will keep you all informed.


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 25, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
...Also, Colin, are you back from Spain yet? Did you get the pack and LA's I sent you? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim

I have just arrived back. The postman had left me a card saying that I have a parcel and need to collect it from the depot (£10.58 duty to pay /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif).
I'll collect it first thing tomorrow, charge it up during the day, leave it for a couple of hours, then have a play... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif...er...test it.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Colin


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 25, 2004)

BN,

The situation is as Jim paints it although I use a more conservative figure of 60-65% for conversion from bulb to torch lumens. This figure was arrived at from some correlational studies carried out by PaulW using modded lights with the Mag reflector and several Surefire lights of 'known" luminous output and is the figure I favor. 

It has also been stated that the 10X provides a "wall of light" type of illumination profile. In my experience, a broad well diffused beam will appear brighter to the eye than a tightly focused beam of identical lumen output. This is most likely a characteristic of human visual response. That and the fact that a super bright hotspot will tend to cause the pupil to constrict, thus making the already weaker surrounding spill seem even weaker than an instrumented measurement would indicate. 

Jim,
Good to hear. I've been running the SL-35X LA off of 6 hot CP1700SCR 4/5 SC and it has been performing fine. Very bright, very white but has not blown yet.

Wilkey


----------



## brightnorm (Apr 25, 2004)

Jim and Wilkey,

Thanks for those detailed explanations.

[ QUOTE ]
Wilkey said:
_"That and the fact that a super bright hotspot will tend to cause the pupil to constrict, thus making the already weaker surrounding spill seem even weaker than an instrumented measurement would indicate."

[/ QUOTE ]_
Interesting; probably more apparent at shorter distances.

In terms of throw, can greater reflector depth compensate for a smaller diameter? Sorry if that has been already covered.

Brightnorm


----------



## alanhuth (Apr 25, 2004)

Hey Guys,

I've tried to follow the conversation here and frankly, it's over my head. What I'm hoping is that somebody is going to take all the good info coming out of this and provide either a mod or a set of instructions so a less-technical TL owner can upgrade his light to levels being discussed here. Does anybody plan to do that?

Thanks, Alan


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## Ginseng (Apr 25, 2004)

BN,

I think that McGizmo fathered a rather lengthy thread on the subject of reflector design. I don't recall what the indications were. You are right that the pupil effect is much more pronounced at medium and shorter distances and is also strongly affected by the illumination target. I can only grasp that it's complex...beyond that I do not have the wherewithal to test the ideas.

Wilkey


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## SilverFox (Apr 25, 2004)

Hello Alan,

One modification involves changing the battery pack and lamp. That's it. You unplug the stock battery pack and plug in Jim's KAN battery pack. Jim is in the process of trying to figure out the best lamp to use. We started with the SL 35X lamp, but it is blowing up. Testing is in progress to find the prefect lamp.

The TL85 modification is more involved. You will have to send your TigerLight charger to Jim for a modification, change the battery pack, and change the lamp. I am sure Jim will post how to modify the charger if you want to do it yourself.

These are pretty easy to do. The difficult part is assembling the battery pack. Since Jim has that process down, I would suggest purchasing an assembled pack from him.

Tom


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## brightnorm (Apr 25, 2004)

Wilkey,

OK, thanks

BN


----------



## js (Apr 26, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
BN,

The situation is as Jim paints it although I use a more conservative figure of 60-65% for conversion from bulb to torch lumens. This figure was arrived at from some correlational studies carried out by PaulW using modded lights with the Mag reflector and several Surefire lights of 'known" luminous output and is the figure I favor. 

. . . 

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah! OK. I will start using that in the future. I was under the impression that it was "easy" to get that percentage out the front, and thus that use of a Carley vacuum metalized reflector with UCL would up it a bit. Thanks for the info, Wilkey.

S4MadMan has emailed me and tells me that his review of the TL/35X/KAN will be up very soon, today or tomorrow morning. I can't wait!

Tom, I was thinking. I could send you a (slightly) off-axis ring-potted 1111 if you want. The hot spot will look a bit off, but it's still a rockin' lamp. Do you want one?


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 26, 2004)

Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

I collected my "package" this morning /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif and have installed the Kan and 35X - being charged now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

One thing I noticed is that the 35X reflector is no where near as shiny as the stock TL reflector (imagine how much brighter it would be if it were!).

I will unplug later, leave for 2 hours (as suggested before), then give it a field test tonight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Thanks Jim

Colin


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 26, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I'd be more than happy to check it out.

I'll just tilt my head a bit and it should look normal.

Tom


----------



## Frame57 (Apr 26, 2004)

Colin
The satiny finish of the SL35X does cut down the throw some what, but it produces a nice even beam with very few holes or artifacts. However I think you'll be impressed with the wall of light this modification puts out.


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 26, 2004)

I'm just on my way out to test it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 26, 2004)

Jim - thanks for the chance to field test /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I have no tech knowledge or equipment, but here is a "report":

First impressions - WOW, the SL35X + KAN pack looks to be about twice as bright as the stock TL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif.
It throws a bit further too (although it was a little misty tonight so it was difficult to judge by how much further.)

The TL35 has a much whiter and smoother beam than the stock TL - which looks yellow in comparison.

I had a nice stroll through the local woods, alternating between both lights - the TL35 is brilliant.

TL35 gets a lot hotter than the stock, but not so much as to be uncomfortable.

When I arrived back home I took these photos. Please note that I am no photographer but I did my best /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

At ten feet, Stock on left, TL35 on right:







At 3 feet - Stock TL:






At 3 feet - TL35: (it looked a lot brighter in real life)






Ceiling "bounce" test - Stock TL:






Ceiling "bounce" test - TL35:






"Up the wall" - Stock TL on left, TL35 on right:






I am very impressed Jim, and my SL-35X hasn't "insta-flashed" yet (with appologies to Kodak) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

I can't wait for the TL85 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Colin


----------



## cue003 (Apr 26, 2004)

I likes..... can't wait to get one..TL85. I am in for one of these bad boys for sure.....


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 26, 2004)

This sort of blows my thoughts about SL35X LA being "very robust". I do use one of my Sl35X's (actually one is an SL35) with six C NiMH's, which have very low resistance, and have had no problems. I have not turned on light when batteries were hot off the charger (I use a Vanson Universal charger), due to having to wait to charge all six, from a four bay charger. Fresh off charger would be about 8.7 volts.

Bill


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## Ginseng (Apr 26, 2004)

Ahhh yeah, 
Nice shots Colin! That overdriven SL-35X LA is a very potent little bulb. I just love seeing big fat, ***-kicking beams in the wall shot. It might be on the hairy edge on 6xKAN cells but a drop to the 4/5AU might be just the ticket. As I mentioned somewhere, my LA has been performing like a champ on 4/5SC nimh cells of about the same caliber as those Sanyos.

Bill,
The staggered charging just might provide enough margin for your LA to survive. Do you happen to know the internal resistance of those C cells?

Wilkey


----------



## Judgedog (Apr 26, 2004)

Like someone else posted a few pages back, I too have tried to follow this thread, but the discussion here is well above my level of understanding. However, this thread did convince me to buy a TL FBOP. I have had it for about a week, and love it. But, after seeing the great pictures of the mod I have to know a few things:

How much would it cost to mod my light?

Is this a mod that someone with little or no experience in mods could perform?

If I make the mods to my light, can I still use the TL charger, or would I have to use something else?

I'd love the beam of my light to be like those pictured above, but I seriously doubt that I possess the skills to make the mods myself. If I can make the mods myself, then please tell me how much it would cost, and I may just give it the old college try!!!


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Apr 27, 2004)

Wilky,I am assuming that my AmondoTech green (Chinese) 4.5amp C's have low resistance. No specs on AmondoTech site that I can find. I have looked at specs of other brand NiMH C's and note that they run 4-6 mohms, which is lower than typical NiMH D's, even high discharge ones.

Bill


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## Psychomodo (Apr 27, 2004)

Judgedog /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Q. What is the cost for the current mod?
A. Check with Jim.

Q. Can anyone perform this mod?
A. Absolutely anyone (see below).

Q. Can you still use the TL charger?
A. Yes.

Here is my understanding of the current situation (Jim - please correct me if I am wrong here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif)

The current mod (KAN battery pack and SL-35X lamp assembly) has been supplied by js /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif(Jim Sexton) to a few "field testers" for evaluation. I, like you, have no technical knowledge. Jim made up the battery pack and modified the SL-35X to fit into the stock Tigerlight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

It was real easy for me to take out the stock battery and lamp assembly, and replace them with the KAN battery pack and modified SL-35X (absolutely NO technical knowledge needed here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif)

The original charger is used in this mod and you will be able to reverse this mod and make your Tigerlight "stock" again if you so wish /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The idea of the field tests was to evaluate the performance of this particular mod - i.e. how will it stand up to normal use? It has transpired that Tom (SilverFox) has had a problem with his SL-35X lamp assemblies blowing after a very short duration /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

It may be that the SL-35X doesn't like being overdriven by the KAN battery pack - maybe another bulb will have to be used with this pack (Jim is testing out WA bulbs as I am writing this! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif)

There is also another mod by Jim on the way. This involves a different battery pack (higher voltage I believe) and a different bulb and reflector (WA01185 bulb and Carley RF1940 reflector) - also, the charger will need to be modified. I believe Jim will do this for you if you send it to him.

This newest set up should just about doubles the brightness (at the expense of reduced runtime) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Once again, this mod will be made and supplied by Jim so that us "non-techies" can just easily swop over the parts from our stock Tigerlight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

When all has been tested, Jim will be offering these mods at what I am sure will be a reasonable price /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can say that I love the SL-35X and KAN pack mod and that I am looking forward to getting the even more impressive WA01185/Carley RF1940 set up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Colin


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 27, 2004)

I just blew my SL-35X LA on 6 cells. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Wilkey

PS. Silverfox, do you still have the blown LAs? If so, can I buy them off you?


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 27, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I tried out the 1274 last night. It did NOT blow. YEA!!!

I have to admit being a little gun shy the first time I turned it on.

This combination is great. The beam is excellent. 

It is a bit different from the 35X. The 35X has a smoother transition between the hot spot and the spill giving the impression that it has a bigger hot spot. The 1274 has a very smooth beam considering the polished reflector, but the transition is a bit more abrupt. 

My initial observations are that the 1274 is showing about the same amount of light output, but polished reflector may give higher readings on the meter. I'll have to check that out later.

This looks like a winning combination to me. If it can withstand the rigors of "daily use" it will be a real winner.

Testing in progress...

Tom


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 27, 2004)

Hello Wilkey,

PM sent.

Tom


----------



## Judgedog (Apr 27, 2004)

Psychomodo:

Thanks for the great response to my post. I think I actually understood it all. Perhaps I will wait until the new mod is available and will then give it a try. I will keep watching this thread and see how things develop. Thanks again for taking the time to give me answers to all of my questions (in a language that I could understand)!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif BTW, you pictures were awesome. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif I was loving my stock TL, but now want it brighter!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif


----------



## js (Apr 27, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Jim,

I tried out the 1274 last night. It did NOT blow. YEA!!!

I have to admit being a little gun shy the first time I turned it on.

This combination is great. The beam is excellent. 

It is a bit different from the 35X. The 35X has a smoother transition between the hot spot and the spill giving the impression that it has a bigger hot spot. The 1274 has a very smooth beam considering the polished reflector, but the transition is a bit more abrupt. 

My initial observations are that the 1274 is showing about the same amount of light output, but polished reflector may give higher readings on the meter. I'll have to check that out later.

This looks like a winning combination to me. If it can withstand the rigors of "daily use" it will be a real winner.

Testing in progress...

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom,

The 1274 should not be as bright as the 35X LA or 1111. It should be in between the stock TL LA and the 1111 or 35X. Also, we are *NOT* overdriving the 1274. We are driving it at spec: 7.2 volts. Have no fear, Tom, you will not flash this one, even straight off the charger. Are you testing the 1274 with the KAN pack or with the stock pack? I'd really like to know how the stock pack manages to drive the 2.7A 1274. In any case, according to Ginseng, the 1274 likes 7 cells even better, so 6 is quite safe, if less stellar in the brightness department. I will send you an off-axis 1111 to test as well, Tom. Keep in mind that I WANT you to try to blow these bad boys. As we discussed before, what's the use of a lamp assembly that you can't grab right off the charger and use? I have subjected the 1111's to some rather intensive testing and so far I have yet to insta-flash one. Going by the 1185, I think it's a good bet that the 1111 will stand up to a 20 percent overdrive without falling into the insta-flash territory, but I'm not leaving it to chance. We will all (er . . . or at least some of us) be beating up on 1111's in our field testing soon.

Colin,

AWESOME! Thank you so so much for those side by side beam shots! I love it. I'm thrilled. Actually, I'm very happy with all of you field testers. Good work, gentlemen. Colin, you will definitely love the Tiger85. Imagine another step up in brightness of about the same degree as the one between the stock TL and the TL/35X. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One thing though, Colin /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif now people have a price figure in their head that I may not be able to meet! Bad Colin. Bad. (Just kidding). But seriously, I can't guarantee that I will be able to sell at this price, and definitely not if I switch to the Sanyos. I tried to give you field testers as good a deal as I could without wincing. Also, the Carley 1940 + WA lamp will likely be at least the cost of a SL-35X LA and probably more. Of course, when the lamp dies all you need to replace is the ring-potted lamp fixture and not the reflector.

Soon I will have a 2nd TigerLight and will post side by side beam shots of the stock TL vs. the Tiger85. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif

Thanks very much everyone.


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 27, 2004)

Judgedog:
You are welcome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Jim:

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
One thing though, Colin /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif now people have a price figure in their head that I may not be able to meet! Bad Colin. Bad. (Just kidding). But seriously, I can't guarantee that I will be able to sell at this price, and definitely not if I switch to the Sanyos. 

[/ QUOTE ]

OOOppppssss - my bad /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whoopin.gif

I have edited my post and taken out the approx cost /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Sorry Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Can I field test the TL85 for ya /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


Colin


----------



## js (Apr 27, 2004)

Colin,

I really WAS kidding. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I just wanted people to know that that price figure was not final. Anyway, no problem. And once again, thanks so much for those rockin' beam shots. They made my day.


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 27, 2004)

Jim,

I know you were kiddin' me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Glad you enjoyed the beam shots /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Can I field test the TL85 for ya /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif ?

Colin


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 27, 2004)

Since my SL-35X LA has blown, I've switched to a WA01111. So far so good.

Wilkey


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 27, 2004)

How does it compare for brightness?


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 27, 2004)

Puts out about the same brightness as the SL-35X but the beam pattern is quite different due to the smooth MC reflector. Comparable output but I'm hoping more robust. It did not flash on the same pack that flashed the SL-35XLA so I'm hopeful. 

I hope to be reporting on a SL35/85 mod soon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wilkey


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 27, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
I hope to be reporting on a SL35/85 mod soon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

Will that involve unpotting the SL-35X bulb and repotting the SL-35X LA with the WA01185 bulb?(Sounds interesting)

Colin


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 27, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I guess I will just have to defocus the 1274 a little...

I took a measurement and it was close to 2% brighter than the 35X. I did note that it did run longer. I got about 35 minutes on it and the battery pack still showed 6.9 volts after 25 minutes. This is on the KAN battery pack.

The hot spot is similar to the stock TigerLight lamp in size, but a lot smoother.

Another thing I observed was that it was easier to notice when the battery pack was near the end. This lamp gradually dimmed down. The 35X seemed to drop off more rapidly.

Any tips on playing with the focus? 

Tom


----------



## js (Apr 27, 2004)

Tom,

If you're getting 2 percent more intensity than the 35X, that sounds pretty awesome to me! Don't change anything! Plus, I didn't find any advantage to defocusing. The hot spots of the WA lamps in the 1940's are none too tight, to my taste. But, if you want to play with the focus open up the light but keep the lamp leads attached. Take a 2mm allen wrench and loosen the set screw WHEN THE REFLECTOR AND LAMP ARE COLD! Turn the light on and gently move the ring-potted lamp in and out until you are happy. I do this against a white wall. When I am happy I tighten the set screw, turn the light off and button everything up. (Don't overtighten. Just snug it up firmly but not hard) If the ring sticks while moving in and out turning it slightly helps , but in general, it should move without much force. As the lamp gets hotter, I have found that the ring tightens slightly in the reflector. If this happens to you, let everything cool down and try it again. Everything should work nicely. If it doesn't something is wrong. Give it a try if you want, I think you'll like it. Also, you'd probably like an orange peel reflector better than the smooth one I sent you. I wanted to have as close a comparison with the stock LA as possible, so I chose the smooth 1940 to send to you. Please let me know how the 1274 works with the stock battery pack.

Anyway, as for total output the 35X LA simply *must* put out a lot more spill light, right? That's what I found anyway. I don't have a light meter so I can't measure hot spot intensity.

As for runtime, I had hoped for 40 minutes, but 35 is in the ball park.

Thanks, Tom, and happy testing.


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 27, 2004)

I've just been playing with the Tigerlights /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and, as I have two SL-35X lamp assemblies, I decided to do a couple more beam shots to compare SL-35X LA with both stock battery pack and KAN pack /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

TL with stock pack/SL-35X (left), TL with KAN pack/SL-35X (right) at 10 metres







Ceiling "bounce" test, TL with stock pack/SL-35X






Ceiling "bounce" test, TL with KAN pack/SL-35X






TL with stock pack/SL-35X at 3 metres






TL with KAN pack/SL-35X at 3 metres






TL with stock pack/SL-35X (left), TL with KAN/SL-35X (right)





Although the SL-35X LA is much brighter than the Tigerlight LA using the stock pack, when used with the KAN pack it is even brighter still /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Added bonus - no "insta-flashes" yet (with appologies to Kodak /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif)

Bring on the TL85 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 27, 2004)

Yes, Colin,

You're right on. I just drilled out the SL LA today and the bulb looks like it might even be an off-the-shelf unit. It's got "6V 20W" engraved right on the side of the base. I hope to use the WA01185 that Jim sent me...I have to ask first. But if he ok's it, I'm going to try a wacky idea using the MC itself as the centering jig. 

Wilkey


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 27, 2004)

Wilkey,

sounds cool /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

An alternative to the Carley RF1940, eh?


----------



## Frame57 (Apr 27, 2004)

For UK Flashiholics:

I do electronic repair and calibration for a living and I can easily do the resistor and switch modification of the Tigerlight charger for the TL85 combo for those who aren't comfortable with doing the modification themselves, plus I can source the 15VDC power supplies from one of our companies suppliers. If anyone is interested PM me or Email me, my Email address is in my profile. 

Jim Skinner


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 27, 2004)

Thanks Jim - PM on the way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 27, 2004)

Hi Colin,
It's not so much as an alternative to the RF1940 as it is a way to salvage some value out of a blown $15 LA. Still, it would provide an alternative to the Carley, albeit a ghetto alternative.

Jim,
I know you check this thread regularly, woul you mind terribly if I repotted the WA01185 you sent me? I have some bare pin WA01185 coming in that I can send you in return.

Wilkey


----------



## cue003 (Apr 27, 2004)

Is there still going to be a turn key package deal for sale here with the TL and charger etc? Just want to make sure I didn't miss anything.


----------



## Frame57 (Apr 28, 2004)

Psychomodo,

PM Sent

Jim Skinner


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 28, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*cue003 said:*
Is there still going to be a turn key package deal for sale here with the TL and charger etc? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Curtis /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

I can't speak for Jim Sexton (js), but my understanding of the situation is this:

You purchase a stock Tigerlight (any model).

When all testing has been done, Jim will be able to supply you with a choice of battery packs and lamp assemblies to enable you to replace the stock items /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

This is a very simple process that anyone can do /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Jim will probably be offering two options for you:

Option 1 - A KAN battery pack with an upgraded LA (you can use the stock charger with this set up). You will be able to swap over the stock items yourself and this should double the light output /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif but reduce the runtime somewhat. This is completely reversible if you so wish.

Option 2 - A higher voltage battery pack with a higher spec LA. This option means that the charger will need modifying (which, I think, Jim will do for you if you send him your stock charger). This mod will effectively double AGAIN the light output /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif (and, of course, reduce the runtime somewhat). This mod is also reversible if you so wish.

Hope that answers your question /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

(I'm gonna get it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif from js /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif if I'm wrong here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif ...LOL)

ps. I LOVE the KAN pack/SL-35X and can't wait for the TL85 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 28, 2004)

Jim Skinner

Two PMs sent (thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif)


----------



## Ross (Apr 28, 2004)

Jim - email sent


----------



## cue003 (Apr 28, 2004)

Psychomodo (Colin) --

Thanks for the feedback. Jim can confirm that approach, I will purchase the TL ASAP. I notice that some are selling for $99 bucks...but I think it is for a version one TL. What is the difference between version 1 and version 2 TL? This TL 85 will be the smaller TL that right? The one without the pepper spray.

At least this way I can start playing with the TL while I wait for all the testing to be done.

Is there anyplace selling the TL for cheaper than $99 bucks?

Thanks again for the clarification.

Curtis


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 28, 2004)

Curtis /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

You're welcome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The only difference is that the version 1 has a generation 1 lamp assembly (which is not as good as the generation 2 on newer Tigerlights). This shouldn't be a concern though because you will be replacing this LA anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

$99 is probably the best you will find - grab it while it is available at that price /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The TL85 is just the name Jim has given for ANY Tigerlight (FBOP or Pepperspray) that has been modded with the 9 cell battery pack, Carley RF1940 reflector and WA01185 bulb /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif (which should be available shortly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif)

You're gonna LOVE theses mods by Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## js (Apr 28, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
For UK Flashiholics:

I do electronic repair and calibration for a living and I can easily do the resistor and switch modification of the Tigerlight charger for the TL85 combo for those who aren't comfortable with doing the modification themselves, plus I can source the 15VDC power supplies from one of our companies suppliers. If anyone is interested PM me or Email me, my Email address is in my profile. 

Jim Skinner 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

You will need the Molex connector that mates with the existing connector on the TL charging harness. I can give you the info and/or sell you some if you want, but I don't have the stock no.'s in front of me at the moment. I got mine from Newark electronics.

I can also sell you some of the resistors you will need if you don't already have them (6.8 and 11.8-11.9 ohm 1/4 watt resistors). I'm doing the mod with a switch to allow either charging rate, but one could make it permanently 105 mA and have a dedicated charging harness for the 9 cell Tiger85, of course.


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 28, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*...I'm doing the mod with a switch to allow either charging rate, but one could make it permanently 105 mA and have a dedicated charging harness for the 9 cell Tiger85, of course. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim (Frame57 - not js):
I am sending you my spare charging harness for the TL85 mod. You can leave out the switch as I will only be using it to charge my forthcoming TL85 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Thanks for offering your service on this /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif*


----------



## Judgedog (Apr 28, 2004)

I just recently received my first Tigerlight FBOP. It came with a note telling me that TL would send me a new, better LA when they become available. Does anyone already have one of the "generation 2" LAs? I think I am going to order another TL to try to mod it (TL85 baby!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif) I guess it really doesn't matter if it will have the old or new LA since the mod will replace it anyway, but I would like to know what the stock TL "2nd generation" looks like!!!


----------



## Frame57 (Apr 28, 2004)

Hi Guys,

Colin:
I quoted you too high for the mod because I thought you wanted the full mod including the switch. The only parts you'll need are the 15vdc power supply and a resistor. So I'll be refunding you some money.

Jim Sexton:
Where did you get 11.8 ohm resistors? 11.8 ohms is not a standard resistance value (at least in the UK). I'll be using a 12 ohm .5 watt 5% resistor instead. With 5% tolerance the resistor will have a value between 11.2 ohms and 12.6 ohms so I don't think this will make much of a difference. Also could you get me the type and part number of the Molex connector please. I can source Molex connectors overhere wholesale from one of our suppliers.

Ross:
I'd be happy to do the mod for you. My charge will be £11.00 for the full mod including switch, regulated 15Vdc 500mA power supply, and shipping, and £6.50 for just a resistor change and power supply and shipping.

Remember this modification is so you can use the TL85 Combo, that's the 9 cell 10.8 volt pack and the WA01185 bulb. You don't need the modification to use the 6 cell packs.

Jim Skinner


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 28, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
Hi Guys,

Colin:
I quoted you too high for the mod because I thought you wanted the full mod including the switch. The only parts you'll need are the 15vdc power supply and a resistor. So I'll be refunding you some money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Jim - your a star /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 28, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I agree, the 35X lamp puts out more of a wall of light than the 1274. The satin reflector does a good job of smoothing the beam as well.

I tried to meter the overall output with my qup device (similar to what Doug (Quickbeam) is using), but even the stock lamp overloads my meter. I will have to try a ceiling bounce test and go with that.

I will be playing with the KAN battery pack for a while. I get back to the stock pack this weekend.

I am going to leave the focus alone, for now...

This is getting interesting.

Tom


----------



## brightnorm (Apr 28, 2004)

Jim,

I'll want one or more of these mods after testing is finished and all potential bugs have been shaken out. I'd love to have an ultra long throw Tiger-size light, but it looks like the stock lamp is hard to beat in that department. I assume that's so because of thicker filiments in the more powerful lamps so I probably should forget about a super-throw Tiger. Do you agree? 

Brightnorm


----------



## js (Apr 29, 2004)

Brightnorm,

I have a 2nd Tiger on the way for side by side testing, so I will know for sure very soon, but at the moment I believe that all of the WA lamps will throw as far or farther than the stock TL LA. Certainly not any less. The 35X LA is another matter, having the micro-stippled satin reflector, but as I am not going to be offering that anymore, I don't need to worry about it.

Frame57, I'll send you an email or PM or post here. I keep forgetting to get my order sheet, but I can go online and get the part no.s or find them in the Newark catalog. Hold on for just a bit and I'll get them to you.

Colin,

I'm actually doing the field testing of the Tiger85 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif . And I am very pleased. Especially with the ring-potted WA lamps. I have had no problems at all and I have put them through some fairly demanding testing, including switching them between reflectors, adjusting the focus, frequent discharges, and so on. I think they're a go.

I got the Sanyo's yesterday and will be making up a Sanyo battery pack for testing. Stay tuned. I estimate opening up B/S/T threads in two weeks.


----------



## js (Apr 29, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
Hi Guys,

Jim Sexton:
Where did you get 11.8 ohm resistors? 11.8 ohms is not a standard resistance value (at least in the UK). I'll be using a 12 ohm .5 watt 5% resistor instead. With 5% tolerance the resistor will have a value between 11.2 ohms and 12.6 ohms so I don't think this will make much of a difference. Also could you get me the type and part number of the Molex connector please. I can source Molex connectors overhere wholesale from one of our suppliers.

Jim Skinner 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

The MOLEX connectors you want are 19-09-1029, and the pins which fit this are 02-09-1119 (pkg of 100).

The 11.8 ohm resistor is a 1 percent .4 watt very small space-saver resistor from B C Components, Newark part no. 94C3292. I didn't want my resistor value to vary by 5 percent, nor did I want to search through hundreds of resistors to get the value I need.

-Jim


----------



## Frame57 (Apr 29, 2004)

Jim 

PM Sent 

Jim Skinner


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 29, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*

... I estimate opening up B/S/T threads in two weeks. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

PM sent /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## Illuminated (May 1, 2004)

Hi Jim,

Your TL mods look like they're coming along nicely. I can appreciate all the work that went into development, testing, etc. It all takes a lot of time...

BTW - I opened up one of my TL batt packs recently, and there's a protective device on the bottom of the pack, wired in series. It's most likely a Raychem Polyswitch. Kind of like an electronic fuse. Goes into "high resistance" mode under overload until load is reduced. My point is that there is some small resistance associated with the device, and removing it (forgoing short-circuit protection, of course) might improve performance of the stock batt pack for some of the feasible lamp applications.

Also, I'm interested in buying an un-modified 1940 reflector and a potted 1274 if you'd sell them to me that way.

Keep up the good work - John


----------



## SilverFox (May 2, 2004)

Hello Jim,

Changed the 1274 lamp over to my stock battery pack light and had a bit of a surprise. The lamp and potting slipped out of the ring. I slipped it back in and ran a test with the stock battery pack. 

Start at 8.48 volts
5 minutes 6.6 volts
10 m 6.55 v
15 m 6.52 v
20 m 6.50 v
25 m 6.45 v
30 m 6.35 v
35 m 6.21 v
40 m 5.67 v
41 m 4.95 v

Tom


----------



## js (May 2, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Illuminated said:*
Hi Jim,

Your TL mods look like they're coming along nicely. I can appreciate all the work that went into development, testing, etc. It all takes a lot of time...

BTW - I opened up one of my TL batt packs recently, and there's a protective device on the bottom of the pack, wired in series. It's most likely a Raychem Polyswitch. Kind of like an electronic fuse. Goes into "high resistance" mode under overload until load is reduced. My point is that there is some small resistance associated with the device, and removing it (forgoing short-circuit protection, of course) might improve performance of the stock batt pack for some of the feasible lamp applications.

Also, I'm interested in buying an un-modified 1940 reflector and a potted 1274 if you'd sell them to me that way.

Keep up the good work - John 

[/ QUOTE ]

John,

I don't have an unmodified 1940 at the moment, but I'll be getting more soon and I can set one aside for you. I can certainly sell you a ring-potted 1274. I'll PM you sometime next week.

As for the current limiter in the BP, this is news to me! My pack didn't have such a thing. Just batteries and connections and that's it. Interesting . . . Is your pack white or blue?


----------



## Psychomodo (May 2, 2004)

Jim

I have a white BP in one of my Tigerlights, and a blue BP in the other /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## Illuminated (May 2, 2004)

Jim,

My pack was wrapped in blue and batts are lavender & marked "MADE IN JAPAN", no brand name visible.

Flat, square device with white mylar covering is on the bottom and has metal tabs, resistance-welded to the cells just like the tabs on the cells themselves. It can easily be mistaken as a connecting strap as it's connecting 2 of the cell stacks in series. Had to carefully pry off the bottom fibre insulating wafer to expose it. Markings include a symbol and "350", and also "XQ5P". Haven't had a chance to look it up, but I'm 99% certain it is (or is similar to) Raychem's Polyfuse.

They're made for battery pack protection and are available in different current trip ratings. They are also temperature sensitive and can be tripped due to excessive heat as well.

IIRC, normal resistances were on the order of 100 milliohms, give or take. That's 0.2 volts dropped at 2A draw. Every little bit helps...

Gotta go out of town on business all week w/no internet access, so I'll talk to you next weekend.

John


----------



## js (May 3, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Jim,

Changed the 1274 lamp over to my stock battery pack light and had a bit of a surprise. The lamp and potting slipped out of the ring. I slipped it back in and ran a test with the stock battery pack. 

Start at 8.48 volts
5 minutes 6.6 volts
10 m 6.55 v
15 m 6.52 v
20 m 6.50 v
25 m 6.45 v
30 m 6.35 v
35 m 6.21 v
40 m 5.67 v
41 m 4.95 v

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn! I missed this when I first read it. The potted lamp slipped out of the ring. This is not good. It happened to me once as well. Hmmm. This is not good at all. I will have to think a while on this problem and extend the field testing to make sure this doesn't bite me. Damn. It might mean that the 940LE was the wrong choice of potting compounds due to the mismatch between the expansion coefficients of the potting material and the stainless steel ring. Not good.


----------



## SilverFox (May 3, 2004)

Hello Jim,

Perhaps you can just put a dimple or two in the ring. This would give you a mechanical link to the ring.

Tom


----------



## js (May 3, 2004)

Tom,

Good idea, except it would deform it slightly. I was thinking about it this morning and I have come up with a very simple fix. I'll drill a hole through the ring, perpendicular to its axis. Then when I pot the bulb into the ring, the potting material will seep out into those holes, which will prevent it from slipping out. The same tape which covers the bottom and holds the potting material in, will cover the holes through the sides of the ring. I'm certain this will work great.

Tom, you are the best field tester a modder could ask for! If there is some problem, you will ferret it out. You do lots of testing and post results and keep in touch. Sir, I can not thank you enough! I'm thrilled with what you've done to help out. Thanks very much, SilverFox.

Also, Frame57, springnr, and Psychomodo, thanks for your great work. Love those beam shots, Colin, not to mention your unflagging enthusiasm for this project. Jim, my UK harness modding connection, I'm glad you're aboard. And Keith, great posts on the TL35X and good voltage vs. time off charger info.

And then of course, there's Ginseng and Illuminated! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif What can I say, except thank you so much!

And thanks to everyone else for their advice and suggestions.

Anyway, I'm relieved. I was worried I'd have to buy more expensive potting compounds and wait an extra three weeks to make sure one of them would work. However, as it is, I would like to ring-pot some more lamps with my improved method and send some out to you field testers. Colin, looks like this is your chance to field test a Tiger85. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you want to, that is. The other option is for you guys to test out 1274's in Carley reflectors. Unfortunately, I only have two I can spare at the moment, so it will be Tom (who has a 1940 already) and Colin and one other person. If you don't want to buy the 1940 and lamp, that's fine, I can loan it to you for the duration and you can send it back to me at the end of the field test. Or you can buy it for $10 + $5 for the lamp. Shipping for field testers is free. Let me know. I'll PM or email you all as well.

Thanks again.


----------



## Psychomodo (May 3, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
...Colin, looks like this is your chance to field test a Tiger85. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you want to, that is. 

[/ QUOTE ]

YEEEHHAAAAA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif

Of course I want to Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'll buy ALL the "bits" that make up the Tiger85 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Paypal at the ready - just let me know how much.

THANKS Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## cue003 (May 3, 2004)

I am in for ALL the bits as well. Keep up the great work.


----------



## springnr (May 3, 2004)

Jim, my day job has overtaken my testing time. Sorry I haven't been able to help out more. Off to catch some zzzzs. later, Keith


----------



## keithhr (May 4, 2004)

I missed the beginning of this thread and didn't get around to reading it till tonight(the whole thing) JS, wow what a lot of work and to the rest of the contributors, kudos. I would like to participate in an upgraded version of my Tigerlight. I was hoping by the time I got to the end of the thread,final choice for the best bulb ,reflector, and pricing for the battery pack, and modified charger. I peaked at this thread a couple of times but wanted to see how it came out before getting all excited. Talk about a poor mans M6 duster?


----------



## js (May 4, 2004)

keithhr,

Check out the "TigerLight Upgrade Offerings (summary)" thread for the more or less final choices and approximate pricings. The only thing up in the air right now is whether or not I will use the KAN 1800's or Sanyo 2150 HR-4/5AU's for the battery packs.

springnr, don't worry about it! No problem.

cue, THANKS! Everyone who wants to buy something will get what they want, but it just might take me a little while depending on the number of orders I get.

Illuminated and everyone else, I am extremely curious about this current limiting device that is in at least some of the battery packs. It's possible that I missed it when disecting my pack, and if so, it would explain the large voltage drop at 3.2 amps.

PERHAPS, if we remove this little guy the stock pack will be up to the task of driving the 1111? Who knows? I got my 2nd Tiger yesterday and it is happily charging up as I write this. I will be doing some comparison outdoor and white wall beam shots and such like things, but in the near future, I will see if my stock pack has this current limiter and what happens when it is removed.

What if all we had to do was mod the pack a bit and throw in an 1111 in a Carley 1940? Yeah baby! That would be nice. A lot of lumens for $20 or so. We shall see.


----------



## larryk (May 6, 2004)

Jim, any news on modifying the original battery pack ?


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## MR Bulk (May 6, 2004)

Hi Jim, I would like to be in for everything as well. Thanks.


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## Psychomodo (May 6, 2004)

Hey Jim - an order from Charlie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

A great honour indeed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


----------



## Illuminated (May 6, 2004)

Jim,

If I get time this weekend, I'll post a pic of the protection device, and possibly provide links to info about them. Just got back from a business trip and I have to return Monday a.m. for another 4-5 days...

John


----------



## js (May 7, 2004)

MR Bulk, THANKS! I am truly honored by your interest in my mods.

larryk, unfortunately my battery pack that came with my 2nd TL had a bad cell, so I am waiting on a replacement, and as I have to send the original back, I don't want to take off the shrink wrap and look under the bottom cap. When I get my replacement pack, I'll take a look, remove the current limiter if it's there, and run some tests.

I've been pack building and the Sanyo pack got it's first trickle charge last night. Colin, your 9 cell pack is assembled and waiting on shrink wrap and it's first trickle charge as well. I'm anxious to know how this Sanyo pack will perform. The problem with manufacturer's mAH ratings is that they are usually quoted for a .1C or .2C discharge, and thus the actual capacity of the pack at a 1C or 2C or 3C discharge can be significantly lower. The spec sheet for the HR-4/5AU's states that they have a minimum of 1900 mAH capacity, and judging from the discharge graphs, it looks like that's about what we'll get from them when driving the WA 1111. If we're only talking an extra couple minutes, I will have to weigh this against the voltage vs. time graphs of the two batteries. A couple extra minutes is not worth it, if the average voltage goes down too much. On the other hand, for those who want a pack for driving the stock LA, or even the 1274, the Sanyo's may be the ticket. Perhaps I will offer both. We shall see.

Also, as soon as I figure out how to lock the exposure on my digital camera, I'll post some comparison beam shots of the stock LA, 1274, 1111, and Tiger85, all driven by a KAN pack.


----------



## Psychomodo (May 7, 2004)

Thanks for the update Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Illuminated (May 9, 2004)

Jim,

Here's a pic of the bottom of my TL battery pack showing the Polyfuse...







...and here's a link to the PDF file on these devices:

Datasheet 

I believe that this is the SRP350. Seems that with a max resistance of 0.031 ohms (not tripped), that equates to a voltage drop of only 0.1085 Volts at 3.5 amps. 

Unless something else is happening due to increased temperature, looks like it doesn't lose too much at all considering the protection it provides.

Later -John


----------



## js (May 9, 2004)

Thanks John,

My blue colored pack, made in China, that I disassembled months ago, had the same blue colored shrink wrap on the batteries, and it definitely did NOT have a SRP350 or similar device. Very interesting. When did you buy your TL?

In any case, .031 ohms would not explain the performance of my stock pack when trying to drive the 35X LA, but perhaps it is set to limit the current starting at a very low value? I'll take a look at the spec sheet, but either way, until I get my new stock battery pack I won't know for sure if it has one of these, and how it will behave with it removed.


----------



## Illuminated (May 9, 2004)

Jim,

I think I bought my TL FBOP from Dan at TW on that 2-fer X-mas special he ran what - X-mas before last? I can't remember for certain. Gave the second one to my father - never opened it up.

Shrinkwrap on individual batts is lavender like shown in the picture. Shrinkwrap on the pack was blue.

I don't think these protective devices serve to limit current at a rated value per se. I think they change to a very high resistance when tripped (similar to a fuse opening up), and do not reset until current flow is reduced to a lower level allowing the device to cool down and recover.

Not a bad idea to have it considering the ultra-rough service the TL is designed for - and we all know how bad it could be if the TL batt were to become shorted inside the light...

Gotta leave town on business for the next 4-5 days - see ya when I get back.

John


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## Frame57 (May 12, 2004)

Hello All,

Ross, I just recieved your cradle yesterday (11 May) with your check Thanks.

Ross and Colin, I've finally got all the parts together and I'll be modifying and shipping your cradles this week.

Jim Skinner


----------



## js (May 12, 2004)

OK. I tested the Sanyo HR-4/5AU battery pack and I have decided to stick with the KAN 1800's for several reasons. The Sanyo's, on average, have a .2 volts lower potential, which corresponds to a significant loss in lumens, on the order of 60 to 75 lumens. Balancing this is a 5 minute increase of runtime, to 35 minutes, driving the WA 1111, and presumably the same would hold while driving the 35X LA. Yet, on the other hand, during a full dicharge driving the 1111, the Sanyo's get too hot for my taste, which when combined with the heat generated from the lamp assembly, makes for a noticeably hotter TigerLight, even at the switch end. Plus, the Sanyo's are around $9 more expensive per pack. Besides, I like the pretty light green color of the KAN's beter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Again, it is possible that use of the Sanyo pack would minimize insta-flashing of the 35X LA, and I will test this with my one remaining 35X LA, but it would take multiple packs and 35X LA's to really be sure, and I don't want to go that route again. I got bitten badly enough the first time.

So, bottom line, KAN 1800's are it. I will decrease the price estimate of the battery packs in the summary thread.

Colin, your 9 cell pack is ready for service, and as soon as I pot some 1185's (tonight) and let them cure (by tomorrow night) I will send your package out (Friday). Oh, and Colin, I forgot your $6 credit. Sorry. I'll throw in an extra 1185 to make up for it. OK?

I will also pot some 1274's to further field test my new improved potting scheme.

That's all for now.


----------



## SilverFox (May 12, 2004)

Hello Jim,

I'm sorry the Sanyo's are not working out. 

My KAN pack is holding up quite well. I have been playing with the focus of the 1274 lamp and have come to the conclusion that you had it set up very well. I have not had a problem with the lamp moving while on, but if I impact the light while it is off, I can get the lamp to move. I am sure your new potting procedure will take care of that.

I am proud to say that the 35X is still alive. It seems to survive well at 8 volts or less. I really like the smooth beam of the 35X.

Are you considering offering an orange peel reflector as well?

Tom


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## js (May 12, 2004)

Tom,

Good to hear from you! Yes, of course, I am offering both smooth and orange peel Carley RF1940 reflectors, both with undercoating and vacuum metalizing. I will send you a new and improved ring-potted 1274 to play with. I'm glad the 35X LA is still alive. That's the one I just couldn't blow, no matter how hard I tried. Enjoy it, and keep in touch.


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## Psychomodo (May 12, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*

Ross and Colin, I've finally got all the parts together and I'll be modifying and shipping your cradles this week.

Jim Skinner 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Jim - good timing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Psychomodo (May 12, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
Colin, your 9 cell pack is ready for service, and as soon as I pot some 1185's (tonight) and let them cure (by tomorrow night) I will send your package out (Friday). Oh, and Colin, I forgot your $6 credit. Sorry. I'll throw in an extra 1185 to make up for it. OK?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it's OK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Very good of you Jim - I wasn't expecting the credit anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(Getting excited now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif)


----------



## Psychomodo (May 15, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
Hello All,

Ross, I just recieved your cradle yesterday (11 May) with your check Thanks.

Ross and Colin, I've finally got all the parts together and I'll be modifying and shipping your cradles this week.

Jim Skinner 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Jim - I received it this morning (with the cheque - many thanks!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Psychomodo (May 15, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
Colin, your 9 cell pack is ready for service, and as soon as I pot some 1185's (tonight) and let them cure (by tomorrow night) I will send your package out (Friday)...

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Modded charger received from Jim (Frame57) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Ready to go... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## js (May 15, 2004)

Colin,

I'm very sorry, but I didn't get your stuff ready to mail out by Friday, but the lamps will be done curing today at noon and I will test them both out and install one in a reflector and mail your package out Monday. I pulled a muscle in my lower back and it's been slowing me down, although I think I will be more or less back to normal sometime today or tomorrow.

My project today is to learn how to lock the &%#** exposure on my digital camera or die trying, so that I can get some beam shots posted in the summary thread. Also, check there for the opening date and details of the B/S/T thread (Friday the 21st).

Still waiting on my stock battery pack, but from what Illuminated has said and from my experience with the Sanyo HR-4/5AU's, I doubt very much that the current limiter is responsible for the stock pack's inability to drive the 1111 or 35X LA at 7+ volts. I think it's simply a matter of the stock batteries not being up to higher rate current draws. That's certainly because they are designed to give the longest runtime with the stock LA and it's 1.7 amp draw.

I will still try removing the current limiter and testing the modified stock pack out with the 1111, but I don't hold out any hope that the results will be any different than before.


----------



## Psychomodo (May 15, 2004)

Jim,

No problem - I don't mind waiting however long it takes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

I do hope you didn't hurt youself too bad /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

Get well soon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## Ginseng (May 15, 2004)

Jim,
Get well soon. I occasionally get a back or neck twinge and it slows me for at least 3 days.
Wilkey


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## Erik Johnson (May 15, 2004)

When I get muscle pulls that misalign my back or neck, Aleve works better for me than anything else. It still can take a while to pop things back into place, but anti-inflammatories help. If it is a mis-alignment, you can sometimes roll around on your back on a carpeted floor.

Don't know if any of this applies to your case...


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## js (May 17, 2004)

Colin,

Your Tiger85 stuff is going out today (Monday) via USPS Global Priority mail. Let me know when you get it. Might we expect some more awesome beam shots? You're going to love this bad boy.

I figured out how to lock the exposure on my camera. I was worried it couldn't be done because there is no way to set the shutter speed to a fixed value directly. However, it maxes out at 1/2 second, so the beam shots of stuff outdoors at night should work fine. Otherwise, I'll just have to do side by side comparison shots.

K5Guy,

In the Electronics/Batteries forum you will find a very long post detailing exatly how I build the battery packs. I will be adding a few more pictures today, and maybe a bit more description, but it's more or less finished. So, Jordan, and anyone else, if you want to build your own TL pack, check that thread out. It was a royal pain to write, so I hope it helps.


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## Psychomodo (May 17, 2004)

Thanks Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

How's your back?

Beamshots will be posted as soon as I can /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## Psychomodo (May 21, 2004)

I received a package today /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

My "js Tiger85" is on the charger and I'll be playing with it tonight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Beamshots and comparisons with stock TL will follow shortly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

A big THANK YOU to you Jim Sexton /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Thanks also to Jim (Frame57) for modding my charger /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## js (May 21, 2004)

PM sent, Colin.


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## cue003 (May 21, 2004)

Colin, really looking forward to your beamshots. My stock TL (with version 1 lamp) came in today.


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## Psychomodo (May 21, 2004)

Tiger85 charged up. This reflector is the heavy orange peel version.

I went to the local woods when it got dark and compared it to the stock.

The stock has a tighter beam and seems to throw just as far, but the Tiger85 throws out a wall of light. Has a very smooth beam. The hotspot is not as pronounced as the stock. 

I didn't time how long it stayed on for, as I was switching from stock to Tiger85, and stopped when the Tiger85 started to dim and yellow.

The Tiger85 has a much whiter beam than the stock. 

I will recharge overnight and do some beamshots tomorrow.


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif

Well done for doing this Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


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## Psychomodo (May 22, 2004)

Teething problem with charger /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif

Beamshots will be done shortly (as soon as possible) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## Ginseng (May 22, 2004)

Colin,
Drop me a PM with your issues. Jim called me last night and asked me to help you trouble-shoot while he was indisposed. He gave me a few suggestions to try. 
Wilkey


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## Catdaddy (May 22, 2004)

Is it too late to get in on this? for some reason I have not seen this thread until now.

I have two TigerLights and would love to modify one of them like this.

Please PM or email me if you can help me with this.
Thanks,
John


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## Ginseng (May 22, 2004)

_[speaking for Jim mode]_
Jim is laid up with a bit of a sore back right now but his intention is to open up a B/S/T thread in the coming weeks. Maybe sooner. I'd guess you want to check in on that forum for his offerings. That would probably be easiest for him to keep track of things.
_[/speaking for Jim mode]_

Wilkey


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## Psychomodo (May 23, 2004)

Wilkey - PM being sent.


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## Psychomodo (May 23, 2004)

Jim - get well soon.

PM sent


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## js (May 28, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Psychomodo said:*
Tiger85 charged up. This reflector is the heavy orange peel version.

I went to the local woods when it got dark and compared it to the stock.

The stock has a tighter beam and seems to throw just as far, but the Tiger85 throws out a wall of light. Has a very smooth beam. The hotspot is not as pronounced as the stock. 

I didn't time how long it stayed on for, as I was switching from stock to Tiger85, and stopped when the Tiger85 started to dim and yellow.

The Tiger85 has a much whiter beam than the stock. 

I will recharge overnight and do some beamshots tomorrow.


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif

Well done for doing this Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Colin, this doesn't sound right at all. The hot spot on the 1185 should be nothing short of FEROCIOUS, and it should *way* out throw the stock Tiger. I'm worried that your pack voltage was too low due to the regulated 15 V wallwart that Frame57 was using. 15 Volts is apparently just not enough over-voltage for the charging circuit. My nominally "15 V" wallwart actually is at 17 or 18 volts under a 100 or so mA load. I'm sure Frame57 will fix the problem.

I assume that you fiddled around with the position of the ring-potted 1185 until you obtained the tightest hot-spot, yes? If it were out of focus, you would get the "wall of light" but less throw and a less intense hot spot. I mean, did your Tiger85 square with the beam shots in the summary thread?

Also, when you said the 2nd 1185 went "cloudy" that also squares with too low a drive voltage. And, further, the 1185 should NEVER get dim and yellow. It will get dimm-er and less intensely white, but never yellow. This bad boy is being over-driven on 9 cells, so even at the end of cycle, it's not too far below spec drive voltage.

Also, you did use a little rubbing alcohol to clean the 2nd 1185 and let it dry completely before use, right? I seem to remember you saying that. Fingerprints _might_ cause some clouding, although I've never seen it.

Also, you didn't over-tighten the set screw, I hope.

In any case I'll be sending you replacement 1185's, but before you use them we must be absolutely SURE that your 9 cell pack is good to go. Definitely get that DC voltmeter. You should be able to find one for very cheap.

Something is definitely going on, though. I've only ever blow one 1185, and that was due to the glass capsule giving out and the whole thing literally blew up, but, get this, the filament was fine. Even after the lamp blew up it was still emitting light! I turned it off right quick, however, and it wouldn't have done this for long with oxygen surrounding it.

In any case, we WILL get to the bottom of this, and the new 1185s are of course on me, shipping and all. I'll send you a PM.


----------



## Psychomodo (May 28, 2004)

Jim - how's your back?

I have posted the 85's so you can inspect them. Jim (Frame57) has returned the charger cradle, battery pack and upgraded wallwart. He is satisfied it is now ok.

I only handled the 85 by the pins as I know that fingerprints can damage this type of bulb.

I think I must assume that the voltage was too low for the 85's and I will start my field test again when I get the new 85's. If you could also send me a smooth carley, I can compare both reflectors.

You must let me pay you for the bulbs and carleys as I don't want you out of pocket for this.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Psychomodo (May 28, 2004)

ps
I did fiddle with the position to get the best focus.

I don't think I overtightened the set screw - you may be able to tell when you examine the bulbs I have returned to you.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Frame57 (May 28, 2004)

I've sourced new wallwarts these are 15vdc 500mA unregulated and read 18.3 Vdc unloaded. I also charged Colin's pack over night and when I took it off the charger the battery pack read 12.3Vdc unloaded. the led indicator was nice and bright so I think the problem is sorted out.

Ross If your reading this I'll get a new wallwart to you on Tuesday (1 June)

Jim Skinner


----------



## Psychomodo (May 28, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
I've sourced new wallwarts these are 15vdc 500mA unregulated and read 18.3 Vdc unloaded. I also charged Colin's pack over night and when I took it off the charger the battery pack read 12.3Vdc unloaded. the led indicator was nice and bright so I think the problem is sorted out.

Ross If your reading this I'll get a new wallwart to you on Tuesday (1 June)

Jim Skinner 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for sorting this for me Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## js (May 28, 2004)

Colin,

Absolutely not. You can pay me for the smooth Carley 1940 ($12) and shipping ($6), but no way are you going to pay for two lamps which both blew instantly or in short order. I'm very glad that I decided to field test the Tiger85 to the UK! This way we'll have all the bugs worked out with the charging mods/wallwart, and I can get some more testing of my ring-potting scheme.

I think the 1185 which went "cloudy" must have been under-driven, because that is a classic case of under-drive, so this doesn't worry me. On the other hand, the 1185 which instaflashed does bother me. I tried letting two ring-potted 1185's cure at room temperature for 24 hours, instead of at 200 F for 15 minutes. The first one is the one that literally blew up on me while I was testing it before sending it to you. The second is the one that tested out fine, but then instaflashed on you. The 1185 you had which went cloudy is an earlier generation of ring-potted lamps. Hmm. At least it didn't blow. Anyway, it makes me wonder about the room-temperature curing. I'll never do that again. Not sure why it would cause any problems. Maybe there was enough liquid activator left inside to hold too much of a temperature differential across the glass inside and outside the potting.

Also, you saw the beam shots (newer improved set, that is) in the summary thread, right? Was your Tiger85 that bright or not?

And get that DC voltmeter. You will wonder how you ever lived without one before. In fact, take the money you would have used to pay me for the two new 1185's and put it towards that. Plus, I am a little worried that you may have run the voltage of your 9 cell pack down too low. If you have a DC voltmeter you can trouble shoot it in a minute or two.

I'm thinking I'll send you one 1185 in a smooth 1940 to start and we'll see how that goes, and if it works fine for you, then I'll pot some more and send you one of them. On the other hand, if there's a problem involving my ring-potting scheme then I won't have wasted an 1185. Does this sound OK? Or would you prefer to have them both right away, just in case?

As for my back, it's still bothering me. No question. But I'm on the mend. It's really frustrating having to lie around when there's so much to do. It sort of took some of my momentum away and has left me, together with your Tiger85 problems, vaguely uneasy and slightly disheartened. No matter, though, I'm pressing on and I'm looking forward to the day when your Tiger85 is all sorted out and kicking out some serious lumens.

Let's see now. Frame57, you mentioned wanting to get 2 1111's, 2 1185's, 2 RF1940's, and a 9 cell pack. Are you still interested? I missed this part of your PM when we were communicating about the harness mod stuff. Sorry. But if you want to field test this stuff, that'd be great. I can set you up with all of these things. PM me or email me and let me know if you still want to do this, and also whether you want smooth or orange peel reflectors (or one of each).

SilverFox, how about you? I'll send you a PM about 1111/1274 testing.

springnr, are you interested in field testing a Tiger85 and/or an 1111 in a Carley reflector? Let me know if you are.

I want to make sure I won't lose my shirt to lamp potting problems, or charger problems. This will delay the opening of the B/S/T thread, but will lower my stress and worry levels.

I have to say that the 1111 in an OP 1940 driven by 6 KAN 1800's really rocks. It's only a bit less awesome than the Tiger85, and throws every bit as far, which is to say very FAR.


----------



## js (May 28, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
I've sourced new wallwarts these are 15vdc 500mA unregulated and read 18.3 Vdc unloaded. I also charged Colin's pack over night and when I took it off the charger the battery pack read 12.3Vdc unloaded. the led indicator was nice and bright so I think the problem is sorted out.

Ross If your reading this I'll get a new wallwart to you on Tuesday (1 June)

Jim Skinner 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

This wallwart should almost certainly work fine. As for Colin's 9 cell pack, was it possibly not on the charger for a full 10 hours? Because I was getting 12.6 to 12.8 volts right off the charger. 12.4 is 1.38 volts per cell, and it should definitely be at least 1.4 volts per cell at full charge. Still, the real test is what the voltage is under load. The off the charger voltage isn't nearly as important as that. Also, I was interested to read that you found some cold solder joints in the stock harness. Not good. I wonder who's making those for TL and where?

Colin, thanks for mentioning about the focus thing. I missed your post and asked you again in a PM. Sorry.


----------



## Frame57 (May 28, 2004)

The pack had just over a 9 hour charge.


----------



## Psychomodo (May 28, 2004)

Jim

I do hope you don't get too stressed out with this project Jim - hang in there, you're doing a fantastic job and I really appreciate it (so will many other TL owners when they get their upgrade).

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif


----------



## js (May 28, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
The pack had just over a 9 hour charge. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent. That explains it then. It just hadn't gotten that last little bit of charge. Those last mA's really spike the voltage up, until the negative delta V point, anyway.

Anyway, I love it. This put's my mind at ease.


----------



## Ross (May 29, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
I've sourced new wallwarts these are 15vdc 500mA unregulated and read 18.3 Vdc unloaded. I also charged Colin's pack over night and when I took it off the charger the battery pack read 12.3Vdc unloaded. the led indicator was nice and bright so I think the problem is sorted out.

Ross If your reading this I'll get a new wallwart to you on Tuesday (1 June)

Jim Skinner 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Jim - no worries at all.

Ross


----------



## js (May 29, 2004)

Colin and others,

I got the two 1185's you sent me for inspection. The first one definitely DID instaflash, just as I knew it had when you sent me that PM regarding the filament and whether or not it was still intact.

The "cloudy" one, however, was NOT a case of underdrive. No. Somehow oxygen got inside the capsule. I'd recognize that stuff anywhere. It was all over the inside of my reflector and UCL when I blew up an 1185. That's what you get when you mix oxygen with xenon at high temperatures. I can very well believe that this lamp was yellow with a poor hot spot! No kidding.

So, either we just got very unlucky or somehow those lamps suffered some kind of rough treatment, drops, shocks, knocks, etc. in transit. Hard to believe that would matter, though, given that they were wrapped in bubble wrap. I'm worried that the set screw is possibly the culprit and I will investigate this, but it just seems unlikely. Where does the ring have to go, anyway? It is fit very snuggly inside the bore of the reflector. I think I'll see how much torque it takes to deform just the bare ring with nothing in it. I may move up to pipe with .035" wall thickness vs. the .028" which I am using right now. Still, it just doesn't seem likely that tightening down the set screw is somehow putting fractures in the glass capsule. It's potted in place with ceramic adhesive, which should take any pressure and distrubute it around.

It could simply be that we were unlucky.

So, Colin, a new 1185 is on it's way to you via USPS Global Priority mail. The hot spot isn't perfect, but it will tide you over while you're camping, and I'll get two more 1185's and a smooth 1940 out to you soon.

Frame57,

I'll be modifying your 1940's tonight (and yours too, Colin) and potting lamps tomorrow or Monday so that your stuff will be ready to go out Tuesday morning (Monday is a holiday).


----------



## Psychomodo (May 29, 2004)

Thanks Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Frame57 (May 29, 2004)

Thanks alot Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 1, 2004)

Jim (js)

I just got me a digital voltmeter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Checked the 9 cell Kan pack after 10 hr charge - measures 12.7. Does that sound about right?


----------



## js (Jun 1, 2004)

Psychomodo,

YES! Lovely. That's just about right. With more cyclings both the capacity and starting voltage off the charger will go up. I routinely see 12.8 volts off the charger, but anything 12.6 or higher is fine.

Frame57,

Your package is on it's way via Global Express (3-5 days). The 1185's have a RED dot on the back. The 1111's have a BLUE dot. Be careful not to overtighten the set screw when installing a ring-potted lamp. Just snug it down. As long as it is held fast enough so that inserting and removing the lamp lead connectors doesn't move it, that's fine. The 1111 is installed in the smooth 1940, and the 1185 is installed in the orange peel 1940. All lamps are clean and free of finger prints. If you touch one and need to clean it, do it at a downward angle so that no rubbing alcohol runs into the potting. I'm worried that that might cause problems. If in doubt just give it 10 minutes to dry. I'm probably just being paranoid, but I'm still reaching around for possible causes of the two failures that Psychomodo experienced. This next round will test things further. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 1, 2004)

Thanks both Jims (85 should be with me soon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )


----------



## js (Jun 2, 2004)

Psychomodo & Frame57,

I've figured out what I was doing wrong on my ring-potting. During the process I was touching the bulb with my fingers, thinking that was OK because I would clean it later with rubbing alcohol. However, I realized that there is often a piece of the bulb which is inaccessible after potting: that part which is above the level of the potting but below the top of the ring. That part is *NOT* reached during the cleaning with a Q-tip or cloth. And it dawned on me that those two 1185's which I cured at room temperature had a particularly low level of potting. Plus they were 1185's which are the hottest burning of the WA lamps I am using.

So from now on, I will avoid getting finger prints on the lamps during any stage of the process.

But that still leaves the issue of the ring-potted lamps I just sent out to you guys (Colin & Jim). Here's what you should do: after removing the lamps from the reflectors (if they are in reflectors), clean in between the ring and the bulb with a pipe cleaner and a bit of rubbing alcohol. Then be sure to let the lamp dry for 15 minutes or half an hour.

Well, it's sure good to have figured out what the problem was, or at least what it most likely was. And in any case, it's never a good idea to leave any finger prints on the surface of a halogen bulb. I am fairly confident that fixing this error will put things in the clear.


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 2, 2004)

Thanks for the advice Jim - will do /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Frame57 (Jun 3, 2004)

Thanks for the heads up will clean before use

Jim Skinner


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 3, 2004)

Any advice on where I get "rubbing alcohol" from?

I've tried chemists and hardware stores (none of them know what "rubbing alcohol" is!). The chemist suggested "surgical spirit". Will this do?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

(Please pardon my ignorance here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif )


----------



## bwaites (Jun 3, 2004)

Rubbing alcohol is available in any pharmacy over the counter. Just ask the Pharmacist where it is at. It is regular wood alcohol, the kind everybody buys for use around the house.

Bill


----------



## Monolith (Jun 3, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Psychomodo said:*
Any advice on where I get "rubbing alcohol" from?

[/ QUOTE ]


Ask for "*Isopropyl alcohol*." Try to get at least 90%, but 70% or better is still okay.


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 3, 2004)

Thanks - I will have to keep trying, as the two pharmacies I have been to up to now, don't stock it (that's the UK for ya!).


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## js (Jun 3, 2004)

Colin,

Isopropyl alcohol is what I was talking about. Anything that will evaporate and leave no residue, while removing finger oil. Acetone will work, too, aka fingernail polish remover.


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 3, 2004)

Cheers Jim - I know what fingernail polish remover is (just don't ask me how I know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif )

I'll get some tomorrow. Hopefully my 85 will arrive then (otherwise I'll have to wait till I return)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## bwaites (Jun 3, 2004)

Acetone? They took that off the shelf some time ago, I believe.

Isopropyl Alcohol is the stuff we speak of. Can't believe they don't stock that in every pharmacy in the world!

Bill


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 3, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*bwaites said:*
Isopropyl Alcohol is the stuff we speak of.

[/ QUOTE ]

I shall ask for this by name - thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## js (Jun 3, 2004)

Colin,

Yeah, if you do end up looking for "nail polish remover" make sure it's actually acetone. I think bwaites is right. It's no longer acetone. And I wouldn't trust any old mix of chemicals on the surface of a halogen lamp. Definitely get some isopropyl alcohol. Stores around you simply MUST have some. They MUST, I say. Grocery stores here sell the stuff, as well as pharmacies.


----------



## WB (Jun 3, 2004)

Hi Jim

There is also a 99% isopropyl alcohol used to clean fiber optic connectors. Canned air and tissue wipes for fiber connectors may also come in handy. I have the tissue wipes and canned air if you need them. I would be happy to send them to you if you feel they would help.


Bill Blaser


----------



## js (Jun 3, 2004)

Bill,

Thanks very much! I actually have canned air and tissues and a special cloth for cleaning optical equipment. But thanks.

As for the 99 percent isopropyl, what is the percent of "normal" iso? The rest would be water, right? This could be a good thing, as I always worry about the water in the rubbing alcohol hanging around in the potting compound and later causing a fracture in the hot glass. My rational, reasonable mind tells me that after 10 minutes it's all pretty much gone, but the worrysome, mother hen part of my mind wonders "what if". So I wouldn't mind getting my hands on some of this 99 % stuff. I wouldn't want you to pay to ship a heavy bottle of liquid to me, though. Where can someone get this special isopropyl alcohol?


----------



## WB (Jun 3, 2004)

Jim

Check under fiber optic supplies. This is used to clean the connectors of dust etc. There should be no problem ordering this.


Bill


----------



## bwaites (Jun 3, 2004)

Jim,

I get my 90+ percent by asking at a pharmacy, they can get it, even if they don't always keep it in stock.

You can also get it from most hospital labs, if you just want a little, (less than a quart, say) they will usually just give it to you if you find the right person to ask.

Bill


----------



## paulr (Jun 4, 2004)

Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol, I'm pretty sure. Denatured or wood alcohol is methyl alcohol and is highly poisonous. It's sometimes used as paint thinner or lamp fuel. If you drink it, it can make you go blind.

BTW, I just spent 1/2 hour catching up on this thread, which I hadn't looked at in a few months and had forgotten about. WOW!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif This is amazing progress and it makes me want to buy a TL.


----------



## Monolith (Jun 4, 2004)

Isopropyl vs. Denatured Alcohol

"Denatured alcohol is ethanol (drinking alcohol or grain)that has been contaminated so you can't drink it. They are not the same thing. They can be interchanged in most cases but not all. For glue, isopropyl probably will not work as easily as ethanol, but may only take more scrubbing. BUT remember, 91% isopropyl is 9% water, while denatured alcohol is <0.1% water. The glue may not like the water."


Quote lifted from:

About Page - Chemicals


----------



## Frame57 (Jun 5, 2004)

Bad news I'm afraid. After charging my 9 cell pack for 12 Hours (and the pack reading 12.75 Vdc fresh off the charger) the 1185 bulb blew straight away!(There is a visable break in the filliment) I cleaned all the bulbs recieved as per instruction, and the bulbs glass envelope is clear not cloudy. So I'm pretty sure that the bulbs integrity was not comprimised. It seems that 12.75 Vdc is a little hot for these bulbs. I'll give the 1111 and the six cell pack a try tonight, and tell you how it goes.

Jim Skinner


----------



## js (Jun 6, 2004)

Jim,

This is indeed bad news. I have never instaflashed an 1185 with a 9 cell pack. Did you take it right off the charger and then turn it on, or did you give it 15 minutes or so? It's starting to look as if the 1185 will sometimes instaflash straight off the charger. You have a spare 1185, right? Try that one. The 1185 should be more robust than this. IIRC, Ginseng said he's never instaflashed one on 9 cells either. Hmmm. Not the news I was hoping for.


----------



## js (Jun 6, 2004)

Just a thought.

I wonder if it has something to do with overseas shipping? Vibration, shocks, drops, lower air pressure in-flight? Anyone have any thoughts on the subject? I wrap the bulbs in bubble wrap and then put them in small plastic bags. WA ships a small quantity of bulbs this way also. Well, they actually wrap them in bubble wrap and then put the whole bundle in a small cardboard box.

Well, that's it then. No overseas sales, especially not to the UK. I'm cutting you guys off for breaking all my stuff. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just kidding. I'm anxious to hear about the 1111 and 2nd 1185.


----------



## bwaites (Jun 6, 2004)

Jim,

If I remember correctly, I think Ginseng is using nine 1.2 NiMh's which is 10.8 volts, he has had a 30% flash rate on 10 cells, or 12 volts.

Bill

Bill


----------



## SilverFox (Jun 6, 2004)

Hello Jim and Jim,

Flash lights are taking on a whole new meaning... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tom


----------



## Ginseng (Jun 6, 2004)

I've run quite a few 1185's in my time and I have never flashed one on a 9-cell pack. Having said that, I have always used them with "consumer grade" AA nimh cells, albeit good quality units. I have not run them on nicads and I have not run them on high current cells. 

I have run them straight off smart charge and the cells have been a hair over 1.4V/cell but this has never been a problem. Once I get the wall wart I'm expecting from Jim, I'll test an 1185 on a 9-cell pack after extended trickle. IIRC, nicads can peak at a higher voltage before a -dV routine shuts down charging. They can also reach a higher terminal voltage upon extended trickle, upwards of 1.5V/cell. 

Wilkey


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 6, 2004)

(Back from camping)

Bulb was cleaned (prior to use) with isopropyl alcohol as advised.

WOWWEEEEE... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif

The Tiger85 lit up the place like a floodlight!

My brother is an LEO (in Liverpool) and he had his Maglight with him. After dark I asked him to switch it on (we were in a large field at the time). I then switched on my stock Tiger. It made it look like his Mag was almost off. He was WELL impressed.
I then switched on the Tiger85. His jaw dropped as the whole field just lit up. He didn't know what to say for a while! He couldn't believe that such an amount of light could come out of such a small package (FBOP).
After playing for a while, I recharged it so I could play again the next night.
I wasn't able to take any photos but I am back now and will do some indoor "ceiling bounce" and wall shots very soon.

Thanks Jim - this Tiger85 is a real monster!


----------



## Frame57 (Jun 6, 2004)

I switched it on within 30 seconds of it coming off the charger after checking the battery voltage. I'll check the 1111 to night and get back to you with some run times.

Jim Skinner


----------



## Frame57 (Jun 6, 2004)

Here's some data:

6 Cell KAN pack with WA1111 Bulb 

Time(min)/ Voltage DC/ Time(min)/ Voltage DC

0------------8.46--------16---------6.89
2------------7.30--------17---------6.88
3------------7.15--------18---------6.86
4------------7.07--------19---------6.84
5------------7.05--------20---------6.82
6------------7.03--------21---------6.79
7------------7.02--------22---------6.76
8------------7.01--------23---------6.72
9------------6.99--------24---------6.68
10-----------6.98--------25---------6.63
11-----------6.96--------26---------6.55
12-----------6.95--------27---------6.46
13-----------6.94--------28---------6.31
14-----------6.92--------29---------6.04
15-----------6.91--------29:50------5.40


I ran the pack down to 0.9 volts per cell and there was no noticable dimming untill the last two minutes.

This looks like a really good setup. with more throw (using the smooth reflector) than the SL-35X and seemingly more robust. This set up in my opinion gives the best comprimise between brightness and run time. Where the Tiger 85 is more of a "toy" the 1111 could really be useful for an LEO (Like Ross). The thing that amazes me is the amount of light your getting out of such a compact package (FBOP version). A Mag Charger is a big and heavy light by comparison.

Well I'll give my other 1185 bulb a go tomarrow and see what happens, and report back. Then I'm off for two weeks holiday and I will be back on the 23rd of June.

Jim Skinner


----------



## Ginseng (Jun 6, 2004)

I tried my MC85 fresh off-charger and had no problems with the bulb. Voltage was a hot 13.00V just prior to switching on. I'll do a test tonight and log the voltage drop in the first two or three minutes. I'm using Sanyo 2100's in a soldered pack.

Wilkey


----------



## Ginseng (Jun 6, 2004)

Here's the testing I did using two different battery packs and the WA01185.

Bulb and battery testing. WA01185 and 9-cell packs. 

Wilkey


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## Humphrey (Jun 7, 2004)

pm sent


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## js (Jun 7, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Psychomodo said:*
(Back from camping)

Bulb was cleaned (prior to use) with isopropyl alcohol as advised.

WOWWEEEEE... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif

The Tiger85 lit up the place like a floodlight!

My brother is an LEO (in Liverpool) and he had his Maglight with him. After dark I asked him to switch it on (we were in a large field at the time). I then switched on my stock Tiger. It made it look like his Mag was almost off. He was WELL impressed.
I then switched on the Tiger85. His jaw dropped as the whole field just lit up. He didn't know what to say for a while! He couldn't believe that such an amount of light could come out of such a small package (FBOP).
After playing for a while, I recharged it so I could play again the next night.
I wasn't able to take any photos but I am back now and will do some indoor "ceiling bounce" and wall shots very soon.

Thanks Jim - this Tiger85 is a real monster! 

[/ QUOTE ]

YES! Great. This is great news.

Yeah. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif The Tiger85 is a real monster. Once you get used to it, the stock TL seems dim (but it's not, of course). Anyway, this is excellent. Just be careful about turning it on right off the charger. It could be that we (meaning you and Frame57) were just unlucky with those two instaflashed 1185's, but no need to take chances. Besides, it's just good practice to give the pack 15+ minutes to rest before asking it to deliver a 3C current.


----------



## js (Jun 7, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
Here's some data:

6 Cell KAN pack with WA1111 Bulb 

Time(min)/ Voltage DC/ Time(min)/ Voltage DC

0------------8.46--------16---------6.89
2------------7.30--------17---------6.88
3------------7.15--------18---------6.86
4------------7.07--------19---------6.84
5------------7.05--------20---------6.82
6------------7.03--------21---------6.79
7------------7.02--------22---------6.76
8------------7.01--------23---------6.72
9------------6.99--------24---------6.68
10-----------6.98--------25---------6.63
11-----------6.96--------26---------6.55
12-----------6.95--------27---------6.46
13-----------6.94--------28---------6.31
14-----------6.92--------29---------6.04
15-----------6.91--------29:50------5.40


I ran the pack down to 0.9 volts per cell and there was no noticable dimming untill the last two minutes.

This looks like a really good setup. with more throw (using the smooth reflector) than the SL-35X and seemingly more robust. This set up in my opinion gives the best comprimise between brightness and run time. Where the Tiger 85 is more of a "toy" the 1111 could really be useful for an LEO (Like Ross). The thing that amazes me is the amount of light your getting out of such a compact package (FBOP version). A Mag Charger is a big and heavy light by comparison.

Well I'll give my other 1185 bulb a go tomarrow and see what happens, and report back. Then I'm off for two weeks holiday and I will be back on the 23rd of June.

Jim Skinner 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim, thanks for the data. It's similar to what I have gotten. Yes, the 1111 and 6 cell KAN1800 pack is a good compromise between brightness, runtime, and hastle. It gives the Tiger85 a run for it's money, runs for 29 minutes or so, and doesn't need a modified charger and different wallwart. I've done some field testing of this setup recently, and while I still prefer the beam from the Tiger85, the Tiger11 is putting out an awesome amount of light. Glad you like it. How would you say it compares to the SL 35X LA?

Now, let's just hope that people don't start instaflashing this lamp, too.


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 7, 2004)

Jim

Photos will be posted later today /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## Frame57 (Jun 7, 2004)

The WA1111 in the smooth reflector throws much farther than the SL-35X at least 75 to 100 feet and produces decent sidespill. the SL-35X produces more flood and really lights up the landscape close in. As to which puts out more total light we need somebody with a lux meter to answer that question.

Jim Skinner


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## Psychomodo (Jun 7, 2004)

Here come the beamshotz... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Ceiling "bounce" - first the stock Tigerlight







Now for the Tiger85






Next - at wall from 3m (stock)






Next - at wall from 3m (Tiger85)






Finally "up the wall" (I'll let you guess which is which! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif





I'll do some Time/Voltage Data tomorrow after recharge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Well done js /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


----------



## Frame57 (Jun 7, 2004)

9 Cell Kan Pack with WA 1185 Bulb

Note: Voltage directly off the charger was 12.7 Vdc. Let unit set for 15 min until voltage reached 12.5 Volts and switched on, switced off and placed back on charger until light reached 12.7 volts Did this evolution 3 times and everything is OK. 4th time I obtained the following run time data.

Time(Min) Voltage(dcV) Time(Min) Voltage(dcV)
0------------12.50--------8---------10.24
1------------11.21--------8.5-------10.21
1.5----------10.70--------9---------10.18
2------------10.64--------9.5-------10.13
2.5----------10.58--------10--------10.11
3------------10.56--------10.5------10.06
3.5----------10.53--------11--------10.02
4------------10.50--------11.5------9.97
4.5----------10.46--------12--------9.92
5------------10.44--------12.5------9.85
5.5----------10.39--------13--------9.78
6------------10.37--------13.5------9.69
6.5----------10.34--------14--------9.59
7------------10.30--------14.5------9.45
7.5----------10.27--------15--------9.26
--------------------------15.5------8.93 
--------------------------16--------8.24
--------------------------16:06-----8.10

Discharged to 0.9 Vdc per cell, light did not noticably dim untill pack reaced 9 Vdc.

This thing is is amazingly bright and easily out throws the WA1111 and also visably puts out much more light and HEAT! In fact it got so hot it cracked my UCL Lens after 8 mins of continuous run. So don't run this light continuously or you'll be spending alot of money at Flashlightlens.com

In Short this Torch is AWESOME!

Jim Skinner


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 7, 2004)

Thanks for this info Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I'm glad the bulb didn't do one of those nasty instaflash thingies on you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Erik Johnson (Jun 7, 2004)

Wow, sounds like the 1185 is a little too intense for me. I want something that will last for my normal 20 minute walk. It would be nice to use my unmodified charger and not have to worry about excessive heat. I have a UCL on order which along with the 1111 setup should serve my needs perfectly.

Erik.


----------



## Prolepsis (Jun 7, 2004)

Wow! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I'm all about wanting the brightest in the smallest package--don't care about runtimes. YMMV. Looks awesome. Can't wait to crack some UCLs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks for the info!


----------



## js (Jun 8, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
9 Cell Kan Pack with WA 1185 Bulb

[. . .]

This thing is is amazingly bright and easily out throws the WA1111 and also visably puts out much more light and HEAT! In fact it got so hot it cracked my UCL Lens after 8 mins of continuous run. So don't run this light continuously or you'll be spending alot of money at Flashlightlens.com

In Short this Torch is AWESOME!

Jim Skinner 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

This is HIGHLY unusual. You should *NOT* have cracked your UCL. I would contact Chris at www.flashlightlens.com and see what he can do for you. The UCL is supposed to be extremely resistant to this sort of thing. Chris even shoved the head of a TL into a bucket of snow & ice, right after a full burn, and it did not crack.

I have done almost a dozen full-out indoor burns of the Tiger85, and I have NEVER cracked either my standard UCL (old style) or my SI UCL (w/ rubber gasket).

I repeat: *the Tiger85 CAN be run for the full 17 minutes continuously*

Colin,

Thanks for the beam shots. I love that ceiling bounce test!


----------



## js (Jun 8, 2004)

Oh, and I just noticed, Frame57, that you got 16 mintues and not 17. Hmmm. I used to get 17 m 30 s or thereabouts. Probably some variation in the bulbs. I'll be interested to see what Colin gets for runtime.


----------



## Frame57 (Jun 8, 2004)

Jim

I had my Tigerlight standing on end pointing towards the celing when at 8 mins the lens cracked. It was the old style UCL without the gasket. Before testing I cleaned the lens
with window cleaner on both sides to remove any finger prints or dirt that could cause a hot spot. No big deal though, I'll just buy a new UCL from Flashlightlens.com, they don't cost that much anyway.

In my test I also let the light set 15 mins to reduce the chance of instaflash, that might of had an effect on the run time. Also this is the first full run of my 9 cell pack so it's probably not up to full capacity yet.

I'm away for two weeks starting tomarrow (June 9) so I won't be posting again untill the 23rd of June. If you open the BST thread while I'm gone could you set me up with 4 WA1111 and 4 WA1185 Bulbs please Thanks alot!

Jim Skinner


----------



## js (Jun 8, 2004)

Jim,

God-speed to you! Have a most enjoyable trip in Florida. I will definitely reserve those bulbs for you, but I should warn you that I'm probably going to raise the price a bit while dropping any kind of guarantee. How's that for bad news?

Oh, and that pack (You'll notice it is #101) is fully cycled and broken in. It's the one I was using. I sold it to you for the sake of speed, and presently have no assembled 9 cell packs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif But it's good to start to feel that I have perfected my ring-potting technique. Thanks very much for the voltage vs. time data, BTW.


----------



## Frame57 (Jun 8, 2004)

Jim

Thanks for reserving the bulbs for me

Jim Skinner


----------



## Ginseng (Jun 8, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
9 Cell Kan Pack with WA 1185 Bulb

[. . .]

This thing is is amazingly bright and easily out throws the WA1111 and also visably puts out much more light and HEAT! In fact it got so hot it cracked my UCL Lens after 8 mins of continuous run. So don't run this light continuously or you'll be spending alot of money at Flashlightlens.com

In Short this Torch is AWESOME!

Jim Skinner 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

This is HIGHLY unusual. You should *NOT* have cracked your UCL. I would contact Chris at www.flashlightlens.com and see what he can do for you. The UCL is supposed to be extremely resistant to this sort of thing. Chris even shoved the head of a TL into a bucket of snow & ice, right after a full burn, and it did not crack.

I have done almost a dozen full-out indoor burns of the Tiger85, and I have NEVER cracked either my standard UCL (old style) or my SI UCL (w/ rubber gasket).

I repeat: *the Tiger85 CAN be run for the full 17 minutes continuously*

Colin,

Thanks for the beam shots. I love that ceiling bounce test! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

I'd offer a correction. When running the WA01185/1111/1160, expect cracked lenses. Not all the time, but it will happen. It's part of living on the edge. S4MadMan has cracked several UCLs on his MC60s and I have done one. The only lenses I've found to stand up to repeated full pack discharges are the borofloat lense from FlashLightLens.com The stock MagCharger mineral glass lenses are also quite stout. The gasketing might make some difference but minimally as evidenced by the fact that the MC lens is gasketed.

Hope you guys don't mind a MagCharger modder chiming in now and then.

BTW, nothing stands up to repeated full-pack Aurora discharges. 

Wilkey


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 8, 2004)

Ginseng said:[/i][/b]
[ QUOTE ]
*...BTW, nothing stands up to repeated full-pack Aurora discharges. 

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

Now why doesn't that surprise me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif*


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 8, 2004)

Runtime stats: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

(I left the light for 5 minutes after taking it off the charger before switching on.)

Time(Mins)..Voltage(dcV)...Time(Mins)..Voltage(dcV)
0...............12.65..............9................10.12
1...............11.78.............10...............10.06
2...............10.74.............11................9.99
3...............10.57.............12................9.90
4...............10.44.............13................9.79
5...............10.36.............14................9.62
6...............10.29.............15................9.34
7...............10.23.............16................8.50
8...............10.18.............16:15............8.10

I did the same as Jim Skinner and switched the Tiger85 off when the dcV reached 8.10 (0.9Vdc per cell). I didn't really notice any dimming of the light though! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

This is the fourth full charge it has had, although it was only used for less than 10 minutes last night before being recharged.

Jim - my package arrived today - cheers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

After doing the runtime test, I won't be able to try out the Carley smooth until tomorrow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Something to look forward to though! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

I'll let you know how the smooth and orange peel compare /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

ps. UCL intact.


----------



## js (Jun 8, 2004)

Ginseng,

Thanks for the correction. I had no idea. Would the borofloat stand up to the Aurora? Or not even that?

Colin,

Thanks for the v vs. t data. It looks like I'll have to change the runtime of the Tiger85 from 17 minutes to 16 minutes.


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## Psychomodo (Jun 8, 2004)

Jim

Was I right to switch it off at 8.10Vdc ?


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## js (Jun 8, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Psychomodo said:*
Jim

Was I right to switch it off at 8.10Vdc ? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Colin,

Absolutely. .9 volts/cell is a good cut-off voltage.


----------



## Psychomodo (Jun 12, 2004)

Tigerlight upgrades now available HERE


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## Psychomodo (Jun 13, 2004)

Bump


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## js (Jun 14, 2004)

Colin,

What's up with your Tiger11? Did you give the WA1111 a test run?


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## Psychomodo (Jun 15, 2004)

Jim
Appologies - I have been, as yet, unable to outdoor test the Tiger11. I am hoping to do so tonight and will post here straight after it has been done.
How's your back holding up by the way?


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## js (Jun 15, 2004)

Colin,

Great! No hurry, I was just curious. My back has been gradually getting better for a long time now, but I am still not 100 percent. I'm well on the mend, though. Thanks for asking.


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## Psychomodo (Jun 15, 2004)

Here are some beamshots of the Tigerlight85 and Tigerlight11 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## agent8698 (Jun 16, 2004)

Two golden rings instead of one? I'm not sure if this looks better or worse than the original. I came up with this idea using Photoshop. Maybe *three* rings for a Tiger85? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Max


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## js (Jun 18, 2004)

agent8698,

I'm actually not thrilled with the single gold ring in the first place, and now you want to add TWO MORE?! Yikes! Nah. If I could easily take that ring off and have the underneath be the same as the rest of the light, I would. But that ring hides a bit of thread from the head/body interface. Chris from flashlightlens.com had to do some machining and lower the head by 1/4 inch after taking his ring off. Too bad. This is why TL won't get rid of that gold ring even though a lot of people don't like it all that much. They'd have to change their manufacturing setup somewhat.

Don't get me wrong. I don't _mind_ it, I just don't like it.


----------



## dano (Jun 19, 2004)

I'm currently toying with the Option 1 combo: orange peel w/W-A1274 bulb.

I like this combo, as it puts out a very large amount of light, in a high quality, near artifact-free beam. I played with the set screw in the reflector, and found the best compromise between throw and beam quality. Only a very small amout of change with the bulb setting will mess-up the beam quality, so critical adjustment is critical, and may require a few tries.

The bulb itself is potted around a small metal band, and the workmanship is excellent. I didn't know this was hand done until I re-read the thread. 

The reflector has a stipled, very shiny surface with the mounting neck having a small allen-head grub screw. This screw is used to anchor the bulb in place, but only needs to be tightened slightly (and I haven't had the bulb slip in the two weeks I've been using the light).

EVerything goes together without problems. NOTE: due to the heat output, a glass lens is mandatory (i.e. from flashlightlens.com).

The difference between the stock lamp and mod. lamp is interesting. I didn't think it was a big enough difference to justify a change in bulbs. But upon comparison, the amount of light emitted by the mod. bulb, especially at intermediate distances (say 20-200ft) is superior to the stock lamp. The stock lamp may out-throw this combo, but it can't compete in light output for more common light usage ranges (especially if your TL has the pepper spray option).

I'm still planning on using the smooth reflector, next...stay tuned.

--dan


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## agent8698 (Jun 19, 2004)

Hi Jim, your response reminded me of something I forgot, which was my first reaction to the gold ring: I didn't like it when I first saw it, over a year ago. In the meantime it has grown on me, but not because it really looks good, but because the product that it decorates is of such high quality and performance that anything attached to it will tend to become ennobled, by sheer proximity.

Otherwise, I believe that anything that is supposed to look like gold, but is not gold, is probably in poor taste, and I can't think of any exceptions. 

Originally, I wanted to put something else on the second ring, something like "Tiger11 mod by JS", but it was too difficult to do in Photoshop.

I remember one of the other TigerLight photos in one of these threads has a "plus" sign next to the word "TigerLight". I think that's a good start. There has to be some way of putting a mark on the modified TigerLight, I just don't have any good ideas. I'm sure everybody here would proudly carry around a modified TigerLight with some kind of little marking on it, whether it would include your initials or not. 

I once thought of putting a segment of bicycle inner tube around the TigerLight, as a way of improving the grip, and also to cover up the gold ring. I just never got around to it. But I'm sure that would work, and would also make the light look "businesslike". Max


----------



## agent8698 (Jul 4, 2004)

I received my Tiger11 on Thursday. You can immediately tell that it is brighter than the stock TigerLight, almost twice as bright, but not quite. 

The beamshot shows my sister holding the Tiger11 on the left (charged and used for 20 minutes already), and a fresh-off-the-charger Dorcy 2 million candlepower spotlight on the right. Distance is about 20 feet. The hotspot of the Dorcy is bigger, but not brighter, than the Tiger11. You can't see it on the picture, but the hot spot on the Tiger11 is slightly whiter (the color of the light, not the intensity). The intensity of the hotspot is the same on both lights. 

Another test: hold out your hand and put the Tiger11 right on the palm of your hand, and turn it on (illuminate your palm with direct contact). After 3 seconds, it gets uncomfortably warm. After 5 seconds, the burning starts and you must remove the Tiger11. Very good, Jim, beautiful work. Max


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## cue003 (Jul 7, 2004)

Ok, I haven't posted since I received my tiger85 because I have been too busy waiting for it to get dark so I can decide which reflector I liked better. I finally came to the decision that the smooth is just to sweet to take out. 

I must say that Jim did a hell of a job on this upgrade. It is absolutely awe-inspiring. I shine my light straight up the sky and I can see the beam clearly it is very nice. It has become my favorite big light. The size to performance level is outstanding. 

Even my friends that are not into flashlights couldn't say anything but "holy $%#@" over and over again as they turned it on and shined it around.

I thought that my tigerlight regular was bright but it is REALLY no comparision. The pictures you see don't even do the brightness justice. I have not done an extended run yet to see how long it lasts but I have been playing... I mean using it for the last couple of nights in a row and threw it on the charger once just to top it off before the friends came over. 

Installation was very easy and straight forward to do. The only thing I would caution is that the prongs on the bulbs are very bendable and seem like they may break from frequent changes of reflectors or from swithing back and forth from stock to Tiger85.... BUT they still seems stronger than the stock light prongs.

Once again JS, job well done and thanks for the hard work. 

I have sent the charger back to you with a signiture confirmation. You should have received a tracking number in your cornell email. 

Thanks again.

Curtis


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## js (Jul 9, 2004)

Curtis (and agent8698),

After working for 6 hours on building battery packs, this is exactly the sort of post I love to read. Thanks for taking the time to write up your impressions.

Yeah, the Tiger85 is still my favorite non-EDC (or "big") light because it's really not that big, and it is really amazingly bright. I had the same experience when I first had it up and running. I would go out just to play with it, or I would shine it out the upstairs windows into the fields across the road. and every time I turned it on I felt like laughing or yelling or both. I was like "YES! Now THAT is awesome." I'm looking forward to getting a bunch more orders out soon and to reading more posts like this one. I think people will be pleased with any of the mods.

Oh, and as for the lamp pins bending and braking. Don't sweat it. In my experience, they can take quite a bit of bending. I have never broken any of the lamp pins on either the WA lamps or the stock TigerLight lamp assembly or the StreamLight 35X lamp module. Nor has any of the field testers. On the other hand, it's always a good idea to try to minimize repeated bending and stressing of something like a lamp pin. But don't lose any sleep over it.


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## Catdaddy (Jul 10, 2004)

I have been out of it for a while. Have all of these shipped? I don't have mine yet.
John


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## js (Jul 10, 2004)

John,

No, not at all. I shipped out 6 orders from the battery packs I had on hand or could make up from batteries I had on hand. The rest of the orders had to wait on me getting the necessary batteries and are now waiting on my massive pack building effort (25 packs!) which is coming along nicely. See the B/S/T thread for the full update.


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## Catdaddy (Jul 10, 2004)

thank you so much for the update. I can relax a little now.
John


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## js (Jul 19, 2004)

OK. I know this is crazy, but in the middle of all of this work I am doing for all of the people who signed up for the first build run, I keep thinking of a couple extra mods for the TigerLight. Well, three, actually. Here they are:

1. A lot of space is lost in the battery comparment due to the thickness of the two mated snap-connectors (battery, and battery connector) and the wire which is squeezed down underneath the battery pack. Now this actually amounts to enough extra room so that if it wasn't used up this way, a person could fit 2 full length A batteries in, instead of the standard 4/5A. One possibility is to use the Sanyo HR-AUX 2700 mAh batteries to get an hour and a half of runtime with the stock LA. The other possibility is to use CheapBatteryPacks CBP 2100 mAh A batteries to get 36 minutes of runtime with the WA1111.

2. OR, it just so happens that FOUR stacks of AA batteries fits just about perfectly in the same hole that THREE stacks of A batteries fits in. Together with the extra length, that means an 8 cell battery packs of AA batteries. I'm leaning towards the CBP 1800 batteries, which can deliver up to 10 amps, so that means their voltage will hold well at 3 or 4 amps. So one possibility is to direct drive the WA1185 with this pack. It wouldn't be as bright as with the 9 cell KAN 1050 pack, but it would run longer. Something on the order of 30 minutes, with about the brightness of the Tiger11. So this is more or less redundant as it is more or less a Tiger11. However, the other possibility here, is to use this in conjuntion with one of Willie Hunt's LVR3I's set at 6.0-6.3 volts, and drive the WA1160 to make a regulated Tiger60! Again, it would have more or less the same output as the Tiger11, but it would not dim over the run, and it would be immune to overdischarging and insta-flashing. The key issue would be where to put the LVR3I. I have a few ideas.

In any case, the leads to the pack would have to be direct soldered, or be replaced with something small like a Dean's Ultra, that could fit in the space along the side of the square pack in the round body. Also, some small amount of cushioning would be a good idea down at the bottom of the light/battery pack interface. Thin layer of foam or something.

3. Fast charger using a configuration that is NOT constant current, but charges to a specific voltage with more current the lower the voltage. The voltage is set so that you get just the right trickle current at full charge. I'm not too enamored of this idea at the moment due to the work involved, but I do have a circuit designed. I just need to proto-type it. Eh. I don't know. I keep hoping that TL will release a fast charger. It's definitely needed.


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## Prolepsis (Jul 29, 2004)

Just received my TigerLight mods. Will post more later in the next few days (busy at work + need to sleep), but here is my brief first impression of the T85.

HOLY CRAP! The T85...

... with the orange peel reflector
... with the lamp still needing to be adjusted a bit (in focus)
... with whatever charge is in the battery (partially cycled, I believe)

is BRIGHTER than my SureFire M6 HOLA!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

I don't have a light meter--the SureFire has a broader beam, but the T85 throws a tad farther (at these crazy distances, I can't tell for sure).

Ceiling bounce test--the T85 is brighter--but you'd kind of have to compare the two lights side by side. I asked someone else for their opinion, and they said the same thing: the T85 lights up the room a tad more.

Wow! 
Thanks Jim! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Light weights /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
575 grams - Tiger85 w/ UCL
540 grams - stock TigerLight
450 grams - SureFire M6


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## Paul_DW (Jul 29, 2004)

Hi All, firstly I would like to thank Jim (Frame57) for doing the mod to my TL charger ready for the TL85. I would also like to say a BIG BIG thanx to Jim (Mr Sexton himself) for his wonderful Mod  I have had my TL85 now for a few weeks, and have been having probs with getting a few decent pic's both taken, and posted, but I am now in possession so thought the decent thing to do would be to share  Before this I would like to say that changing the necessary components was, and is a piece of cake, and really no technical knowledge is needed at all. Converting from stock TL to TL85 takes me all of a minute to do  

Both Jim's have been very helpful with ALL questions I have fired their way, and believe me I have asked a few  Overall service from both has been faultless.

A WARNING!!

This is well documented in Jim's documentation supplied with his mod's and only silly people like me will do this, but just beware! Leaving the torch for a good 15 mins is a MUST after charge as I've blown 2 lamps by firing her up too soon. I lost a lamp only last night after 10 mins off the charge so I think in my humble opinion that maybe 30 mins might be a safer bet to be safe ?! 

I won't give the TL85 a review, I will simply say it is AWESOME!! ........ no other word available to describe it. I am a new Flashaholic and before my TL my only other tool is a Surefire E2e, the one that started the ball rolling! Here is 3 pictures. I ONLY have the E2e to compare to (lol) but hopefully it's a beam/torch you all might know. The pic's were all taken with a Canon IXUS400 and all with the same settings. The sheds are over 100ft away.

The Poor E2e:







Stock TL:






And my baby, the TL85







I could be one of the most unusual Flashaholics out there, but hey! whatever tickles your whistle if you ask me ...lol. I am a London cabbie who works nights and my TL85 helps me get thru the night with constant "wow"'s and the occasional giggle as I shine the thing way into the distance only to be once again surprised that the spot has reached its intended target ...lol


I LOVE IT!!

Paul.


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## ResQTech (Jul 29, 2004)

Wow, that is a great comparison set of pics! Thanks! Im tempted to upgrade my order from the 1274 to the 11 or 85....


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## ResQTech (Jul 29, 2004)

Can you please reiterate the runtimes? And by runtime i mean, the time for a fresh charged TL to the point where the light should be turned off (not completely dead) and put back on the charger. Id like to know for:
- TL with stock battery and stock bulb
- TL with WA1274 and stock battery
- TL with WA1111 and KAN 1800 battery
- TL with WA1185 and KAN 1050 battery
Again, im looking for the runtimes being freshly charged to NOT dead but to the point where it should no longer be used and put back into the charger. Sorry if this has been posted somewhere already, but there are 22 pages in this thread and id like a definitive answer. Thanks guys!


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## js (Jul 29, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*MTFD17 said:*
Can you please reiterate the runtimes? And by runtime i mean, the time for a fresh charged TL to the point where the light should be turned off (not completely dead) and put back on the charger. Id like to know for:
- TL with stock battery and stock bulb
- TL with WA1274 and stock battery
- TL with WA1111 and KAN 1800 battery
- TL with WA1185 and KAN 1050 battery
Again, im looking for the runtimes being freshly charged to NOT dead but to the point where it should no longer be used and put back into the charger. Sorry if this has been posted somewhere already, but there are 22 pages in this thread and id like a definitive answer. Thanks guys! 

[/ QUOTE ]

This is all in the summary thread, BTW. There is a link to the summary thread in the Signup B/S/T thread. But I am happy to list them again. Probably a good idea:

stock TL: 66 minutes.

stock TL battery running 1274: 35-41 minutes? I got 41 minutes, but SilverFox only got 35, IIRC. Hard to say. There are different stock battery packs out there and they are in different states of capacity from abusive or good treatment. dano has this setup and posted about it above but didn't do a runtime test yet.

Tiger11: 29 minutes
Tiger85: 17 minutes

Paul,

Thanks so much for this review and these beamshots. If anyone else wants to post TL mod pictures/beamshots, I can host the images online.

Prolepsis,

Have you tried your smooth 1940 w/1185 yet? That was one of the best reflector/lamp combinations I have sent out so far, in terms of the "white wall" performance. Almost perfectly centered, IIRC. Plus, your pack will get better with a few more cyclings. Glad you are impressed. BTW, what's with the sleepy graemlin before the Tiger85 and U2 in your sig line? Are you trying to tell me something? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif It's not MY fault your harness took forever to get to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## ResQTech (Jul 29, 2004)

Thanks Jim! As much as I want a super bright handheld, I need the runtime on scenes. Ill stick with the 1274 on the stock pack. Hope you get them in soon!!


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## Prolepsis (Jul 29, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
Prolepsis,
Have you tried your smooth 1940 w/1185 yet? That was one of the best reflector/lamp combinations I have sent out so far, in terms of the "white wall" performance. Almost perfectly centered, IIRC. Plus, your pack will get better with a few more cyclings. Glad you are impressed. BTW, what's with the sleepy graemlin before the Tiger85 and U2 in your sig line? Are you trying to tell me something? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif It's not MY fault your harness took forever to get to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll try the smooth tonight and report back. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Hehe, oops, I forgot to update my sig line--I was "dreaming" about the T85, but now she's here!

Now I don't know what to do with the stock LA and batteries anymore, lol. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Paul_DW (Jul 29, 2004)

"Now I don't know what to do with the stock LA and batteries anymore, lol"

Yeah I must also admit my stock TL battery and Lamp only came out of retirement for those pic's ...lol


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## Josey (Jul 29, 2004)

Wow!


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## naromtap (Jul 29, 2004)

If you go down to the woods today,
You're sure of a big surprise.
Cos Uncle Frank,
Is having a, NO, thats not it, STOP THAT RHYME!

PaulDW & Naromtap where having a TL85 vs SFM6 burnout, I'm sure Paul will tell you more about that but all I wanna know is will the TL85 upgrade be made avail again Jim?


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## Paul_DW (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: The TigerLight Upgrade Thread *DELETED**

Post deleted by Paul_DW


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## ResQTech (Jul 30, 2004)

Looks like the M6 got owned. Is that the LOLA or the HOLA?


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## Paul_DW (Jul 30, 2004)

Soz but I give in :-( I am in need of sleep and have been trying to post 2 pics. One, a beamshot of the Surefire M6, the other of the TL85  I will return after advice, and more importantly sleep ...lol.


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## Frame57 (Jul 30, 2004)

Paul,

The best way to prevent blowing your Tiger85 is to measure the open circuit voltage of the battery at the charging contacts. If it's 12.5Vdc or less you should be good to go, 
I've never blown a WA 1185 bulb when taking this precaution.

A freshly charged pack is 12.8 Vdc hot off the charger (10 hour charge) and in my experience will blow the WA 1185 bulb straight away.

Jim Skinner


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## js (Jul 30, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*naromtap said:*

PaulDW & Naromtap where having a TL85 vs SFM6 burnout, I'm sure Paul will tell you more about that but all I wanna know is will the TL85 upgrade be made avail again Jim? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I should be completely finished with all of the current run orders in two-three weeks at the outside, ASSUMING that WA acutally manages to send me my 1274's and doesn't delay the order for a THIRD time. Then I will need some time off--two-three weeks probably--and then I may possibly open up a run2 signup thread, or it may be a little later than this. We'll see, but for sure in a couple months or so, people WILL have a chance to order whatever they want, since there is already enough interest to warrant a second run. Also, for the record, I will continue to support these mods (spare lamps, reflectors, repairs to battery packs, etc.) for as long as I am alive or until no one cares anymore, whichever comes first.

As for insta-flashing of 1185's, I am working on a mod to the switch/charging contacts housing which may possibly eliminate that. It's essentially just a transistor, a resistor, and a capacitor, configured to give a gentle rise to the current for the first 50 msec's after turn-on. I will have to proto-type it and see what sort of efficiency loss there will be, and if I can make everything fit in that space and so on, but for those who are impatient and prone to turning on their Tiger85's right off the charger, this may be a good solution. Although I will need to have the light in my possession to do the mod.


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## js (Jul 30, 2004)

Well,

ixnay on that transistor-resistor-capacitor circuit. Too much power, too big, no can do. Sorry.


----------



## Paul_DW (Jul 30, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Frame57 said:*
Paul,

The best way to prevent blowing your Tiger85 is to measure the open circuit voltage of the battery at the charging contacts. If it's 12.5Vdc or less you should be good to go, 
I've never blown a WA 1185 bulb when taking this precaution.

A freshly charged pack is 12.8 Vdc hot off the charger (10 hour charge) and in my experience will blow the WA 1185 bulb straight away.

Jim Skinner 

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Jim, yes you know I have a meter handy, and altho I am well aware the battery needs time to cool down, the problem is simply my lack of memory ...lol, oh and impatience ability when I know the TL85 is ready to go :-( My first bulb blew as I pulled the TL85 out of the charger after 11 hours on and I went for a 'Baaaaam' ........ and got a 'Blooooow' instead ...lol. The 2nd bulb blew after impatience. I was itching to get the pic's I posted earlier and basically took a gamble on 10 mins off the charge. I WAS this time aware of what I was doing, but took the gamble and didn't win :-( 

I've now adopted the 30min b4 touching attitude to be on the safe side, and only my memory will allow another bulb to blow in the future /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## js (Jul 30, 2004)

Paul,

30 minutes SHOULD definitely be safe, but there's no guarantee, unfortunately. I haven't ever insta-flashed an 1185 after this amount of cool-down, but there's probably still a small chance of this happening. I'm not happy about it, but oh well, at the moment it's the price you pay for such outrageous performance from a 2D sized light. The SF M6 HOLA is being run off the higher internal resistance Lithium chemistry batteries, and is not being pushed as hard, and thus it is much less likely to blow. Plus there's no spikey hot-off-the-charger voltage to deal with.


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## ResQTech (Jul 30, 2004)

Paul, the pics worked, why'd u delete the post?


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## Paul_DW (Jul 30, 2004)

Jim's, the point about my insta-flashing hobby is nothing but a warning. I think we're all aware of what kind of overdrive the TL85 is getting and at the end of the day maybe a good hour off the charge would be best, its just if your anything like me then sometimes common sense does not come first in my priorities ...lol, so I'm just sharing my experience. I'm sure 99% of ppl will NOT have this problem, but there is always one! ...lol

I'm trying to post 2 pictures from the M6 & TL85 battle last night. I cannot for the life of me seem to get the pictures themselves into my post, at best I can get links to the pic's so will provide these for now. Myself and Naromtap will have another shoot out in the very near future with hopefully better pic's, and I will post as soon as I get, and find out what I am doing wrong in the 'posting pics' dpt  

This is the best I can offer as we speak:

SFM6

[image]http://www.tjtech.org/gallery/Paul_DW/SFM6_woods?full=1[/image] 

And the TL85

[image]http://www.tjtech.org/gallery/Paul_DW/TL85_woods?full=1[/image] 

If these don't work, then I can only appologise as I cannot work this out. The earlier pictures of the E2e, TL, TL85 was kindly hosted by JM on his webspace and I was given the link to add to my post. I was told about the site I have hosted these pic's on and have them there ok, did the same as b4 to try and input the images here, but this is what I get when posting ?! ..... not sure why tho /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Or maybe try this if they don't work ?!

SFM6 

TL85 

I HAVE tried! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif


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## Paul_DW (Jul 31, 2004)

One more try! ...lol

Right! I've posted these pics on some freebie webspace that DOES have limited usage, but I don't see this being a problem (I hope). The TL85 does have a clearer pic, but I don't think it aids to its beam in any way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

Again!

Surefire M6 HOLA







And the TL85






Well it only worked! ...lol. I might as well throw this into the bag then  I took this in the early hours and altho I knew the fog would flatter the TL85, I personally think it's an excellent pic /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif






I can now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif


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## Illuminated (Jul 31, 2004)

Hi Jim,

Willie Hunt's LVR3I is awesome - coolest (and safest) thing I've ever seen for a rechargeable incan application. Send him an email and ask about round LVR's that use the larger 10-amp FET. He told me once that he makes a few of those for "tinkerers".

I've been away quite a lot lately, but I've tried to keep up with this thread. You have put a lot of time/effort in developing these mods - and have produced some excellent results.

Thanks - John


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## naromtap (Aug 2, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*naromtap said:*
will the TL85 upgrade be made avail again Jim? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I should be completely finished with all of the current run orders in two-three weeks at the outside, ASSUMING that WA acutally manages to send me my 1274's and doesn't delay the order for a THIRD time. Then I will need some time off--two-three weeks probably--and then I may possibly open up a run2 signup thread, or it may be a little later than this. We'll see, but for sure in a couple months or so, people WILL have a chance to order whatever they want, since there is already enough interest to warrant a second run. Also, for the record, I will continue to support these mods (spare lamps, reflectors, repairs to battery packs, etc.) for as long as I am alive or until no one cares anymore, whichever comes first.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok Great news Jim!! - I will keep my eyes peeled!!


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## js (Aug 3, 2004)

Illuminated,

Thanks! Overall, I am very happy with the results of my TigerLight modding efforts, and very thankful for all the help I got along the way (Thanks, Illuminated!).

I have thought a lot about the LVR's, and other than the space they take up, the other main issue is that the battery voltage must stay ABOVE the regulator voltage for the entire run. This sort of rules out its use in the Tiger85.

BTW, how *thick* is the LVR3I ?

And thanks everyone else! Thanks for your thumbs-up and kind words and thanks for posting about your TL mods. I appreciate feedback.


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## brightnorm (Aug 12, 2004)

Tonight was my third attempt at a “vertical throw test” of the Tiger 1111, and my third failure. There seem to be more people walking around at all hours than ever, and there is heightened paranoia and law enforcement alertness since the recent exposure of detailed terror plans for my city, not to mention a very recent lockdown of my own block because of a “suspicious package” (see ‘Scary alert on my street today’ in the Café). Also, bear in mind that I test by shining bright lights into people’s apartment windows, a questionable activity under the best of circumstances.

So here are informal results of the very limited tests I’ve been able to do. They don’t do the light justice but I hope to eventually do a proper test.

Ceiling bounce tests M6 HOLA/ Tiger1111
Tiger was one week off charger and had been used perhaps 5-10 minutes during that time
M6 had fresh Surefires: SF/HOLA appeared slightly brighter than Tiger

Infamous white wall test - Distances ranged 20-27 feet:
Tiger consistently able to superimpose white central hotspot upon center of M6’s beam, suggesting greater throw potential

Several extremely brief, furtive “vertical throws”, all distances approximate:

17th floor light gray building from about 90’, total distance (hypotenuse) about 190’: illuminated a large swath of building not brightly but BRILLIANTLY. 190 feet is really too close to see what this prodigy can do.

Several very brief flashes diagonally across street at near ground level, distances ranging roughly 50-75+ feet: distance is much too short for a light this bright, almost like swatting a fly with a hammer.

New building 25-30 stories, curved red brick façade: I was forced to test too close to this building for a really objective opinion, perhaps 25’, which made the beam appear more like a vertical brush of light than a semi-horizontal beam. NTL the light created a hot white swath of unexpected brilliance running up the wall of the building almost to the top 250-300 feet above. It reminded me of a giant-sized version of beamshots where lights are placed vertically in front of room walls or garage doors. 

As I write this it’s about 2:35 AM and I’m tempted to walk Tiger 1111 down to my preferred “vertical throw test” location which would probably be pretty deserted at this time of night, and do a proper test. However, caution prevails and the impulse passed so I’ll just sum up my impressions.

Jim’s Tiger1111 is a brilliant bright light with an uncommonly white beam. I thought the stock Tiger lamp was extremely bright after I installed a JS KAN pack but the 1111 is VERY much brighter, the difference truly dramatic. The hotspot is exceptionally intense and clearly defined within a very bright surround. It is smaller and more focused than that of the stock lamp. I would expect this to be one of the longest-throwing medium sized flashlight configured lights tested on CPF. It is a perfect realization of the Tigerlight’s potential, the only compromise being reduced runtime and bulb burntime. I find that compromise well worth the result, but for those who don't the stock lamp with KAN pack awaits, not to mention the elusive 1274. 

Brightnorm


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## js (Aug 23, 2004)

Brightnorm,

Thanks so much for these "informal" results. I think they're pretty good as they stand, but I look forward to more, of course.

Everyone,

I've learned an important piece of information regarding Willie Hunt's LVR3 voltage regulators--well, actually two, but anyway: when the input voltage falls below the regulation voltage, the LVR is simply on 100 percent of the time, and is more or less transparent. In other words, you lose the regulation, but still have the battery voltage as delivered. At first, I thought the thing would just shut off and not regulate unless it had an overvoltage. But no!

So this means that one of these could be used in a Tiger85 to take the edge off the initial voltage spike, as well as for it's other lovely features, such as soft-start, low battery warning flashes, and low battery voltage cut-off (i.e. no chance of over-discharging the battery pack).

However, the LVR3I is definitely too big to fit anywhere, especially in the switch housing. Which brings me to the 2nd thing I learned. Mr. Hunt sells an LVR3K which is .780 inches diameter round and .3 inches thick. This just MIGHT fit in the switch housing.

And of course, there's still the possibility of making a Tiger60 with the famous WA 01160, by getting an LVR3K set at 6.2 or so volts. This would yield a light with more or less constant brightness over the runtime--at the very end, it would dim slightly.

Not sure if there's much interest in a Tiger60, but I for one am very keen on a Tiger85 with the soft-start and voltage regulation and battery warning and cutoff voltage levels. It would be nice to be able to grab a Tiger85 hot off the charger and not have to worry about flashing the lamp.

Anyone have any comments or suggestions or thoughts on these subjects?


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## Bushman (Aug 25, 2004)

Jim, I just spent almost 2 hours catching up on this thread and would like to know if I would be able at some point in the future to get a Tiger 11 setup from you. 

I am assuming that kit would contain the KAN 6 cell pack
the 1111 lamp
and reflector that is trimmed to fit is that correct?


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## js (Aug 25, 2004)

Bushman,

I hope reading this entire monster thread (or a large part of it) for two hours was enjoyable!

Yes, for sure you will be able to get a Tiger11 setup from me when I do the second build run (if not before). And yes, a Tiger11 would consist of a TigerLight, a KAN 1800 6 cell battery pack, a modded (trimmed to fit) Carley 1940 reflector with either a smooth or orange peel coating, and one or more Welch Allyn 01111 lamps potted into fixture rings so that they slide up into the bore of the reflector(s) where they are secured with the set-screws.


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## js (Nov 3, 2004)

I wanted to add a couple links to this thread, and pull a few loose threads together.

First, I can't remember if I put a link to the summary thread, but if I didn't here it is: 

TigerLight Upgrade offerings (summary)

Second, in case anyone has missed it in the batteries and electronics forum, please note that during the next TL build run I will be making fast-chargers for the TigerLight:

A fast-charger for the TigerLight

Next, I wanted to tell everyone that I will finally be doing some testing and comparing of three TL battery packs: the stock pack, the 2150 mAh Sanyo HR-4/5AU pack, and the KAN 1800 4/5A pack. When I test the stock pack, first I will test it as is. Then I will test it without the RayChem polyswitch overcurrent protection device. Then, if I have the time and energy, I will rebuild it by end-to-end soldering the cells and direct soldering the braids and connectors, and test it again to see if there is a difference.

Finally, I wanted to revist the idea of a regulated TigerLight. The short answer is that I am no longer interested in making one due to the high cost of the LVR's and due to the difficulty of fitting an LVR into the TigerLight switch housing. In fact, I'm not even sure that I could do it, so I am not keen on risking $50.

The only advantage would be with the Tiger85, where the soft-start would eliminate insta-flashing, and from what I have seen so far, first hand and through customer reports, the Tiger85 is very unlikely to insta-flash a filament unless it is turned on hot off the charger. If I chopped off the high starting voltage to 10.8 volts in order to prevent flashing, I would also eliminate that lovely, jaw-dropping, INSANE brightness that I enjoy so much.

Plus, the standard soft-start feature adds a hefty delay to the time to full brightness. I'd rather not even deal with that issue.

Next build-run, at this point it looks like I will be offering four harness mod/charger options:

1. An *HG-MOD*: Gut the harness and add connectors. For use with any appropriate fast charger such as the CG-340 or the one I am building.
2. (no designation yet) Offer a gizmo which attaches to the charging contacts independently of the harness. For use with a stand alone charger or with the dedicated TL fast charger which I am building.
3. The standard *H-MOD* which allows one to charge either the stock TL/Tiger11 *or* the Tiger85, both at a C/10 rate (10 hour charge).
4. An *HT-MOD* which allows one to charge the stock TL or Tiger11 at either a C/10 10 hour slow charge rate *or* a C/50 true trickle charge rate, thus allowing one to throw a switch and leave the light on the charger indefinitely.

Finally, I wanted to affirm that I will indeed be selling some complete TL upgrade packages as soon as I can finish the battery packs for them. Definitely before Christmas.

And that's the monthly update.


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## Catman10 (Nov 3, 2004)

I would also be interested in this.


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## CroMAGnet (Nov 3, 2004)

Great news Jim. I will probably want a TL85 model next. I was wondering if something (ehem)simple like a dual mode switch/resistor could be done instead of regulation. This way you can power up a softer start AND get a low level mode for extended run time. Sounds practical to me (end-user with no electronic understanding) and would probably make the 85 appeal to more people.


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## js (Nov 3, 2004)

I can understand the appeal of a dual- or multi-level output light, but it is not something I have any plans to implement on either the TL or the SF M6. Sorry! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Why not get a SF 10X dominator?


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## js (Dec 16, 2004)

I wanted to post about three new and very exciting (to me, anyway) battery packs for the TigerLight mods.

1. www.cheapbatterypacks.com is now offering an 1150 mAh 2/3A which performs similarly to the KAN 1050's but with longer duration and slightly better voltage under load. I have some of these on the way to me for construction of a proto-type pack. (In case anyone is wondering, these are too large for use in the M6-R pack, and, going the opposite way, the GP 1100's which I use for the M6-R would be even more likely to flash the 1185 when turned on hot off the charger. Their very low IR and high current capability and shorter length are why I chose them for the M6-R project in the first place). I expect that if these new batteries work out that they will provide a minute or two more of runtime for the Tiger85.

2. Gold Peak 2000 mAh 4/5A: These are NOT available yet, but when they are I intend to test them for use as the new battery for construction of the drop-in 6 cell Tiger11 and Tiger74 packs.

3. CBP is also offering a new high-current capable full sized A battery with a 2500 mAh capacity. Yes you read it right: 2,500 mAh! This would mean a runtime of 40 minutes or so for a Tiger11. This pack would truly be a mod and not a drop-in and will require direct soldering the switch-core leads to the battery pack, but given the nature of the TL charging arrangement, this shouldn't be much of an issue. I've also got some of these on the way to me as I write this for construction of a proto-type Tiger11+ pack.

As well as report on these new battery options, I also wanted to say that I will NOT be offering the "option 2" (the gizmo attachment option) mentioned above for charger mods options. However, I realized that I forgot to mention one last charger mod option, which I will put in as the new option 2. Here they all are again for clarity:

1. An *HG-MOD*: Gut the harness and add connectors. For use with any appropriate fast charger.
2. An *HS-MOD*: Replace the sense resistor to lower the charge rate to 105 mA (or thereabouts, depending) to charge the 9 cell packs--this will also require and include a new, higher voltage wall-wart. The advantage of this mod over the standard mod is that it is cheaper--I don't need to buy and install a DPDT switch. The disadvantage is that the harness will now provide only one current, which will charge the 9 cell packs in 10 hours, and the 6 cell packs in 18 (or more) hours.
3. The standard *H-MOD* which allows one to charge either the stock TL/Tiger11 or the Tiger85, both at a C/10 rate (10 hour charge) via an installed switch. This also includes the higher voltage wallwart.
4. An *HT-MOD* which allows one to charge the stock TL/Tiger11/74 or Tiger85 at either a C/10 10 hour slow charge rate or a C/50 true trickle charge rate, thus allowing one to throw a switch and leave the light on the charger indefinitely. This does NOT include or require a higher voltage wallwart unless it is for the Tiger85. Note that these are two different mods (Tiger11 vs 85 HT-MOD) because they require two different sets of resistor values.

Feel free to PM or post with questions or comments, unless expressly forbidden to do so.


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## Polarbear2323 (Jan 1, 2005)

Click Me


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## js (Jan 13, 2005)

Polarbear (or anyone else who has tried),

What is this link that says "Click Me"?

On topic, please note that complete TL kits (i.e. including the light and UCL and spare lamps and so on) are going up for sale over the next two weeks. One has already been sold but there are three more to come.

The next build run signup thread will open in a month from now give or take a couple weeks. I have been waiting on the new GP 2000 4/5A's and they keep promising to be available but then they get pushed back another month. I will continute to wait for them as I believe they are worth it. I'm hopeful that they will indeed be available soon.

Also, I will not open the 2nd signup thread until I have finished with the M6-R field testers' kits, but this shouldn't be a problem.

Also, CromagNet just post a Review of the Tiger11 in the Reviews forum. Check it out. Lots of cool pics.


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## bwaites (Jan 13, 2005)

Jim,

It's the Jeopardy theme song.

Bill


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## js (Jan 20, 2005)

*The Tiger11+ is born*

I'm happy to report that my idea for a new TigerLight mod has proven successful! The Tiger11+ is born:

As I mentioned above the Tiger11+ is a TigerLight driving the WA1111 with a 6 cell NiMH pack, but instead of using 6 4/5A's, it uses 6 full sized A's. The extra space is made available by soldering the battery pack lead wires *directly* to the battery pack at the bottom of the light (at the switch core). Thus there is no need for the mating snap connectors nor for all of that extra battery pack lead wire which normally gets scrunched down underneath the battery pack.

To make all of this possible, the switch core MUST be removed. To accomplish this use a set of small snap-ring pliers or spanner tool to remove the gold charging contact screws from the back of the light. Then use pliers to remove their plastic housing. It's difficult, but it will come off with a few tries and some moderate force. Next remove the rubber switch cover and depress the switch. You are now ready to knock the switch core loose from the body. Sometimes this happens with the first knock. Other times it takes repetitive stress reversal: try to knock it out the front, then knock it to the back, and repeat. I use a popsickle stick and a mallet or hammer. Place the stick on the plastic surrounding the switch plunger and give the end of the stick a moderately hard knock. DO NOT ever hit the switch plunger itself, and do not try to apply too much force.

In no long amount of time, the core will come loose. Push it out the front of the light, using the lamp and battery leads to help. Now you are free to cut the battery leads to the correct length. Just make sure to get the length correct and that the lead which connects to the rear-most charging contact is soldered to the positive terminal of the battery pack. To clarify, the leads connect to the end of the pack facing the rear of the light and are only just long enough to travel across the face of the switch core to the + and - battery terminals. (You could flip the battery pack and run the lead wires to the top of the light, but this complicates the capping of the top of the pack and provides absolutely no cushioning between the pack and the switch core. Either way will work, however) Finally, push the battery pack and switch core assy back into the light and reverse the removal steps.

TA-DA! A Tiger11+.

The stock charging cradle will charge the CBP 2500's in about 13.5 hours, so a 14-16 hour charge time is about right. Or the 6.8 ohm resistor can be replaced with a 5 ohm (or 2 10 ohms in parallel) for a C/10 charge rate. I put a heat sink on the LM317T in this case, however.

OK. Onto the good stuff. What's the payoff? I'll tell you! The Tiger11 with the KAN pack has a mid-point voltage (i.e. half-way through the run) of 7.0 volts, and a maximum runtime of 29 minutes. The Tiger11+ has a midpoint voltage of *7.4 volts!* and does not fall to 7.2 volts until *27 minutes (!)* and has a runtime of *36* minutes. This is for the third cycle. I got 32 on the first, 35 on the second and 36 on the third. It's likely that the Tiger11+ could hit 37 minutes with a half dozen more cycles.

The jump from 7.0 to 7.4 volts means a 21 percent increase in lumens! This translates to *630 lumens* out the front of the light vs. 520.

Now the obvious worry is that the 11+ may be more likely to insta-flash the lamp. However, while I am not dismissing this possibility, I'm pretty sure that the hot-off-the charger initial voltage delivery of both the KAN pack and the CBP pack are about the same. They are both high-rate RC community batteries, and they both have very low internal resistances, so I doubt that the occurences of insta-flashing will be increased very much if at all with the full sized A's.

Time will tell, however. So far, I have not flashed an 1111 with the Tiger11+ (or with a Tiger11).

So there it is.


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## js (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: The Tiger11+ is born*

OK. In case anyone is interested, I just posted the Tiger11+ for sale on the modders B/S/T.


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## js (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: The Tiger11+ is born*

All discussion and posting will continue in The TigerLight Upgrade Thread - Part 2. aka "The Next Generation of TigerLight Upgrades."

Admins please lock this thread.


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## Darell (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: The Tiger11+ is born*

Locked, see above.


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