# Inova X1 (3rd Gen) First Impressions



## skalomax (May 4, 2007)

Here you have It :rock: 

I just ordered 2 New X1's by Express mail. Hopefully they'll be here by Saturday.

For all who ordered earlier, Tell us how you like It...AND please take a shot of the LED.


Thanks


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## Kilovolt (May 4, 2007)

I expect mine some time next week.


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## ghostguy6 (May 4, 2007)

Ive got one I use on my keychain. Its a great little light. The beam has alot of side spill but also has a very bright center with no black spot what so ever. I havent had a chance to test the throw in the beam yet. (bad flashoholic, I know:whoopin: )The beam does have a slight blue tint to it. Sorry, cant post a picture as I wont be home a few days and my camera is at home.


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## greenlight (May 4, 2007)

When do they get them at target?


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## bondr006 (May 4, 2007)

I got an X1 at Target today. I do not like the beam very much. I was expecting more out of a 2.0 watt light I guess. It has about half the luminescence and a less defined spot as my RiverRock 1.0 watt/42 lumens light. I think I will have to take it back.


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## LiteFan (May 4, 2007)

That looks a lot like my Gen 2 beam, are you sure that you got the Gen3 version?





bondr006 said:


> I got an X1 at Target today. I do not like the beam very much. I was expecting more out of a 2.0 watt light I guess. It has about half the luminescence and a less defined spot as my RiverRock 1.0 watt/42 lumens light. I think I will have to take it back.


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## bondr006 (May 4, 2007)

LiteFan said:


> That looks a lot like my Gen 2 beam, are you sure that you got the Gen3 version?



How do I tell if it is a Gen3? The package has all the same specs as they have listed for the X1 at the Inova site.


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## The Shadow (May 4, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> How do I tell if it is a Gen3?



That package looks right for Gen3. Any chance you can get a pic of the LED itself. Seems to be a mystery around here what they're using...


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## bondr006 (May 4, 2007)

The Shadow said:


> That package looks right for Gen3. Any chance you can get a pic of the LED itself. Seems to be a mystery around here what they're using...



How do I get a picture of the LED? Just shoot close-up through the lens?


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## The Shadow (May 4, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> How do I get a picture of the LED? Just shoot close-up through the lens?



That's it. Try to get the LED in focus. If your camera can macro focus you should do OK. There are people here (not me) who can tell the LED by looking at it. Maybe you've got a bum X1?


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## mchlwise (May 4, 2007)

What LEDs are they supposed to have in em now?


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## bondr006 (May 4, 2007)

Here it is. This is about as good as shot as I could get.


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## skalomax (May 4, 2007)

Thanks for your Help.


But, I must Say  Is that?


Never seen a LED like that.


Im Intrigued


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## Cydonia (May 4, 2007)

Looks just like the LED shown over in cratz2's review of the Inova Bolt. He said the Bolt had the exact same emitter as the Dorcy 4 AAA light, and he took pictures of that LED. It was then remarked that it was the new Rigel LED. And MattK said that the new X1 and the Bolt series use the same LED, even though he was (bound by solemn oaths  ) not to disclose what it was called.


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## LiteFan (May 4, 2007)

Ok its Gen3 At least they upgraded the packaging, probably going to try one anyway to replace may EDC Gen2. Thanks





bondr006 said:


> How do I tell if it is a Gen3? The package has all the same specs as they have listed for the X1 at the Inova site.


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## kavvika (May 4, 2007)

Can anyone take a comparison beamshot between the 2nd gen. X1 and the 3rd gen. X1? I'd like to see if it puts out enough light to warrent the decrease in runtime.


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## MattK (May 4, 2007)

That's a Gen3 light. The emitter is made by LumiLED's that's all I can say. 

Read the package - it says 2.0W LEd - not that it's RUNNING at 2W - that's just marketing blap. I haven't tested but I'd bet .5W is more accurate.


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## nanotech17 (May 4, 2007)

That looks like a Luxeon Rebel to me !


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## PoliceScannerMan (May 4, 2007)

nanotech17 said:


> That looks like a Luxeon Rebel to me !


Thats what I was gonna say! :goodjob:


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## mchlwise (May 4, 2007)

nanotech17 said:


> That looks like a Luxeon Rebel to me !



Mee too. :duh2:


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## bondr006 (May 4, 2007)

Well, all I can say is it's about half as bright as my 1 watt RiverRock and I'm really not happy with it. I'm pretty sure it's going back. Maybe I was just expecting too much...:shrug:


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## MattK (May 4, 2007)

Makes sense - the RR is a LuX1 running at 1W, this LED is being driven at considerably less current so it's considerably less bright. It's also 1/2 the size running on only 1 battery...

Oh - it's not a Rebel .


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## bondr006 (May 4, 2007)

MattK said:


> Makes sense - the RR is a LuX1 running at 1W, this LED is being driven at considerably less current so it's considerably less bright. It's also 1/2 the size running on only 1 battery...
> 
> Oh - it's not a Rebel .



I don't understand. The RiverRock and the X1 are the same size and both run off one AA battery. The RiverRock is only 1 watt and the X1 is supposed to be 2 watts but is only half as bright as the RiverRock. Am I missing something, or am I as my avatar says...Just Unenlightened? Did I maybe just get a dud X1?


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## martytoo (May 4, 2007)

Rob,

I noticed a 3 watt Element pictured in your imageshack photos. Is the River Rock brighter than the Element? Do you ever feel that the Element is overheating?

Thanks.


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## MattK (May 4, 2007)

Oh sorry - there is also a RR 1W 2x AA - I just assumed that's what you had.

Watts are basically meaningless. Wattage is a measure of power consumption and not output and the word has become marketing, not engineering to the point where it is utterly meaningless. The X1 might have an LED capacble of 2W but I assure you it's not running at anything like 2W. Again, my guess is that it's .5W.

The X1 isn't made to be the brightest, never has been. It's always been a fairly long running ultra high quality secondary light. If you're looking for 1x AA and BRIGHT buy a LumaPower or a Fenix.


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## bondr006 (May 4, 2007)

martytoo said:


> Rob,
> 
> I noticed a 3 watt Element pictured in your imageshack photos. Is the River Rock brighter than the Element? Do you ever feel that the Element is overheating?
> 
> Thanks.



Actually the Element is about twice as bright as the RiverRock. The Element is 3 watt light rated at 80 lumens, whereas the RiverRock is only 42 lumens. The Element also runs on 3 AAA's, and no, I have never noticed it overheating.


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## lumenal (May 4, 2007)

From the looks of it - barely twice as bright with EIGHTY % less *RUNTIME.*

What gives, Inova???


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## [email protected] Messenger (May 4, 2007)

They were better off using an underdriven cree...that LED is just...


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## skalomax (May 4, 2007)

Now I feel pretty stupid buying two of the New X1's.



At least they're brighter than the 5mm RIGHT?? :candle:


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## Gunner12 (May 4, 2007)

It uses one of these LEDs.

I haven't seen the new X1s yet.


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## skalomax (May 4, 2007)

Why wouldn't they use XR-E Cree's, Seoul P4's, Or AT least Luxeon I's?


Inova really needs to get into CPF.


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## :)> (May 4, 2007)

Skalomax,

You are not alone. I bought 2 of them last night from Matt. I will wait to make up my own mind on these.

-Goatee


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## GarageBoy (May 4, 2007)

Is it no longer the long burning, dim-ish LED anymore?


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## OLD_BJC (May 5, 2007)

*LXCL-PWT1 Specifications

**Lumens : 26 lm
Max Continous Current: 350 mA
Forward Voltage: 3.4 Vf
Rated Lifetime: 2000 hrs*
3.4 Volts X .35 Amp = 1.19 Watt:huh2:

This dosen't round up to a 2 Watt LED!

Also, what about this [email protected] LED lifetime?:hairpull:


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## Burgess (May 5, 2007)

to Gunner12 --


Great detective work determining that LED type.


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## Kilovolt (May 5, 2007)

Anybody knows if the use of an L91 lithium primary does improve the brightness ?


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## LightScene (May 5, 2007)

How about a 14500 to juice it up?


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## bondr006 (May 5, 2007)

OLD_BJC said:


> *LXCL-PWT1 Specifications
> 
> **Lumens : 26 lm
> Max Continous Current: 350 mA
> ...



Yep. Real crappy LED lifetime, short battery life, and a real dim beam. Definately going back. I think I will get one of the new T1's. They are rated at 85 lumens and only a half inch longer and a quarter inch wider.


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## MattK (May 5, 2007)

Good job Gunner - Close enuff. 

IIRC it's actually the LXCL-PWT3. The unit can be pulsed at up to 1A so they could have called it anything from a .7W- to a 4W. IMHO the lifespan is a non-issue; firstly I understand that the lifespan is based at much higher current levels than what it's being driven at. Also, the X1 has a lifetime warranty so if you ever actually used the LED enough to have a loss of output they'd replace it. Remember even if you assume the worst lifespan of 2000 hrs (to 70% output) and use 2 hours as the runtime that means you've run 1000 batteries through it so you've gotten your $16-20 worth out of this product. 

"Why wouldn't they use XR-E Cree's, Seoul P4's, Or AT least Luxeon I's?"
Because those are expensive emitters and this is an inexpensive light. Cree & SSC emitters still cost like $5-6 by the 10's of thousands. The Luxeon was like $2.50 last time I checked. Also, those emitter packages are really too big for the X1.

The new X1 is clearly far brighter than the old model but it does give up runtime in the process. The fit finish is simply impeccable, the warranty is awesome and for most consumers this will meet/exceed their expectations and I expect this X1 to be even more succesful than the previous versions.


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## Delta (May 5, 2007)

I'm glad I didn't jump on this one yet. I had real high hopes for the new X1, and this is thoroughly disapointing. I can't understand why a company would put out a product that is SOOO ridiculously below current market standards?? Especially when you consider that they are putting the reputation they built up at risk? 

I think someone on the BOD at Inova is worried a little too much about the bottom line.


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## bondr006 (May 5, 2007)

Exactly. I don't understand why they could not have put a better LED and emitter in it and just charged a few extra bucks. It would have been the perfect little inexpensive high power light that you could pick up just about anywhere. If RiverRock can do it, why not Inova? My little 1 AA RiverRock puts out a beautiful 42 lumens and I only paid $22.00 for it.


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## Gunner12 (May 5, 2007)

Thanks guys, I remembered seeing the LED somewhere.

I think MattK is right, the X1 is meant to be a relatively cheap yet high quality light to enlighten the general public. Does the mean they will use the Luxeon Rebel next(about $3 each)?

Most of the general public have never heard of Fenix or the other lights that we know so well (much less about Cree and Seoul LEDs). Since Inova is on much more shelves than Fenix, there isn't much competetion. They will sell well to the public.


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## Hans (May 5, 2007)

Delta said:


> I'm glad I didn't jump on this one yet. I had real high hopes for the new X1, and this is thoroughly disapointing. I can't understand why a company would put out a product that is SOOO ridiculously below current market standards?? Especially when you consider that they are putting the reputation they built up at risk?



Seems to me like Inova is losing its way. With the current crop of flashlights on the market and many manufacturers continually improving their offerings I predict Inova will be in for some hard times. Given the quality of present LEDs there's no doubt in my mind that the mass market will belong to AA and AAA based lights, and Fenix has shown what's possible with a light running on humble AAs and AAAs. 

Sure, Inova make hard use lights of very high build quality, so I'd be prepared to buy an Inova with a somewhat lower performance, but there's a limit to what's acceptable. A better LED and two stages, that would have been it.

Peak, LRI, and now Inova ... They all seem to leave the market to Chinese made lights without putting up a fight. A shame that. Peak is at least offering modern LEDs in their lights now, but there's still no two stage light. *Sigh*

Hans


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## Hans (May 5, 2007)

MattK said:


> "Why wouldn't they use XR-E Cree's, Seoul P4's, Or AT least Luxeon I's?"
> Because those are expensive emitters and this is an inexpensive light. Cree & SSC emitters still cost like $5-6 by the 10's of thousands. The Luxeon was like $2.50 last time I checked. Also, those emitter packages are really too big for the X1.



I do understand the price thingy, but the physical size shouldn't really be a problem. Fenix doesn't appear to have any problems fitting a Cree into the LOD CE. 

Hans


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## Cydonia (May 5, 2007)

There isn't much to say really... except to buy every old Generation 2 X1 you can get your hands on while they are still around!!


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## martytoo (May 5, 2007)

Cydonia said:


> There isn't much to say really... except to buy every old Generation 2 X1 you can get your hands on while they are still around!!


 
If both Gen 2 and Gen 3 are somewhat less than stellar in their output, why do you favor owning the Gen 2 light? Why should I grab one (or every one I can find)?


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## Cydonia (May 5, 2007)

martytoo said:


> If both Gen 2 and Gen 3 are somewhat less than stellar in their output, why do you favor owning the Gen 2 light? Why should I grab one (or every one I can find)?



Cause' the old ones have longer run time using 5mm led - with the penalty of even more dimness - but the same build quality. For those of us who enjoy dim long running lights... this new X1 is a bit of a disappointment. Maybe it's even a disappointment if you like bright lights too? It's just an excuse to grab a neat old light before they are gone. (Sure, they'll be on BST (buy sell trade) section for ever, but I'd rather a new one while ya still can)


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## MattK (May 5, 2007)

I'd be willing to say that Fenix sales volumes aren't even a rounding error for Inova.

Remember, Inova makes a high end, mass-market product. It's clear that they do not cater to niche markets the way LumaPower and Fenix do. I think those predicting Inova's downfall are way off of the mark; just because they're not building a product that's as cutting edge as this community might desire that doesn't mean much of anything in terms of their overall financial success - they don't NEED CPF. Their lights are in Sharper Image, Target etc..Inova is the new Maglite if you will. They're not trying to be Fenix - or Surefire for that matter - they've staked their flag at the premium end of the consumer market and it's been hugely succesful for them. Let's face it, Streamlight has been around for decades and while they're big in the professional svcs market they're nowhere in the consumer market, Surefire does great with military and LEO but most consumers won't pay that much for a light. Inova is making extremely high quality, well engineered, HA'd lights for the masses and rolling in the dough.

The new X1 is vastly superior to the previous generations is all aspects except for runtime. The reflector/LED are brighter and throw further, the color rendition is better. It uses up a cheap AA battery in 2 hours - is that really so terrible?

I still have plenty of Gen 2 black body/white LED in stock as well as all of the colored LED models for those who prefer the Gen 2. 

Me? I'll keep carrying the LumaPower F1 as my EDC.


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## greenlight (May 5, 2007)

when did they ever make colored v.2 inova x1?


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## jthomson111 (May 5, 2007)

I just got back from Target. They had two black gen3 x1's priced at $19.99. I picked the brightest of the two. It is brighter than the gen2 but not as bright as i was expecting. It has a deeper reflector. I will have to wait until it gets dark to do more testing.


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## dano (May 5, 2007)

It's threads like these, were people complain about a product, and seem to think that they have some foresight above and beyond a major company's research, product, and development, market placement, etc, without even having the product in hand, that makes me think that CPF is heading in the wrong direction; that of an elitist, never satisfied group.

The X1 fills a gap in Inova's line, and I'm sure Inova did enough research and development to justify the light's manufacture. Has anyone ever pondered to ask why Streamlight, Inova, Surefire haven't jumped on the Cree (or Seoul) bandwagon? Are they being slow with this supposed advancement, maybe because the newest LED's either don't fit in the product line, or maybe these new LED's have a possible long term issue? 

Inova, SL, SF have bigger issues to worry about (i.e. warranty, product support) then some overseas made light, made somewhere by a company that offers no support, warranty or otherwise.

If you don't like it, that's fine. I do think it's incorrect to assume that we, CPF, have any greater technological knowledge to criticize a company because that company did not make a light to "our" specs.


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## Delta (May 5, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> My little 1 AA RiverRock puts out a beautiful 42 lumens and I only paid $22.00 for it.



I bought one of those today. It's no Fenix, but it IS a nice light!


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## MattK (May 5, 2007)

greenlight said:


> when did they ever make colored v.2 inova x1?



They have for quite some time...they're 'quadpacked' in little black tubes. You'd only find them at a company like mine, not on the shelf at Target.


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## Hans (May 5, 2007)

dano said:


> The X1 fills a gap in Inova's line, and I'm sure Inova did enough research and development to justify the light's manufacture. Has anyone ever pondered to ask why Streamlight, Inova, Surefire haven't jumped on the Cree (or Seoul) bandwagon? Are they being slow with this supposed advancement, maybe because the newest LED's either don't fit in the product line, or maybe these new LED's have a possible long term issue?



That may well be possible. In fact, it's one of the reasons why I opted not to have my HDS lights modded - the Luxeons are known to last a long time, and I value reliability much more highly than performance. I also noticed that Surefire and some of the other major players seem pretty slow in jumping on the bandwaggon, and I can well understand why they want to be on the safe side. After all, their long term reliability is one of the main reasons for buying a Surefire. Or an Inova.

But on the other hand - why didn't Inova choose a decent Lux I for the X1? And, more importantly, why didn't they go for a two stage light? Lights with two or more stages are here to stay, even in the mass market. One bright level with, say, 1 hour runtime, and a low level with something like 3 or 4 hours. That would increase the options for the user, and may even make marketing the lights easier: " An ultra reliable, small light running on common batteries that lets you set the light level depending on how much light and how much runtime you need. Perfect for everyday use and use in emergencies."

See?

Hans


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## MattK (May 5, 2007)

2 stage lights are inherently more complicated. Inova uses tailcaps for all of it's lights but the T4 and 2 stage tailcap switches are usually inefficient AND unreliable. A lifetime warranty is cheap to offer if there is little to break. If you make a light with an inherent weak point you're practically guaranteeing a much higher warranty service cost. Also, this is a light that RETAILS at 17-20 - how much do you want to spend?


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## Raven (May 5, 2007)

> It's threads like these, were people complain about a product, and seem to think that they have some foresight above and beyond a major company's research, product, and development, market placement, etc, without even having the product in hand, that makes me think that CPF is heading in the wrong direction; that of an elitist, never satisfied group.



Maybe, but the success of Fenix vindicated a lot of CPF'ers who lobbied hard for a high quality premium aa lux, and maybe Mag wouldn't be playing catch up if someone in their R+D department had been a member of this board


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## Hans (May 5, 2007)

MattK said:


> 2 stage lights are inherently more complicated. Inova uses tailcaps for all of it's lights but the T4 and 2 stage tailcap switches are usually inefficient AND unreliable. <snip> Also, this is a light that RETAILS at 17-20 - how much do you want to spend?



A somewhat ineffcient 2 stage switch is better than none in my book. Even a not-so-bright light is far too bright in some situations. This is something more and more people seem to realize. For instance, I loaned a couple of my two stage lights (L1P's with modded tailcaps) to some friends, none of them a flashaholic, and they all commented how nice it was to have a low level when using the light at night.

I also don't really think 2 stage switches need to be unreliable. Don's tailcaps for the Surefire E1L/E2L, for instance, don't really strike me as being unreliable at all. On the contrary, I find them more reliable than the Surefire Z57 clicky.

The price ... Well, sure, you're right. The price is low, given the excellent build quality of Inova lights. But I think I'd rather spend a few bucks more and get a light that's that much more useful to me. 

Hans


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## greenlight (May 5, 2007)

MattK said:


> They have for quite some time...they're 'quadpacked' in little black tubes. You'd only find them at a company like mine, not on the shelf at Target.


I only ever saw the v.1 with colored led.


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## Phaserburn (May 5, 2007)

CPF has an enormous intelligence, experience and talent base in a good many things, and can be quite technically excellent.

However...

If there is one thing this board occasionally lacks, it's true understanding about the world of marketing. Marketing is always bashed here as mindless, greedy grubbers who will lie endlessly to make a single buck; and that's pretty much it. Marketing is a sophisticated endeavor that many don't seem to appreciate around here. Not saying you should, either, only give some credit where credit is due. There are endless numbers of threads attacking manufacturers marketing concepts and belittling product launches.

If Inova is aiming to be the New Mag, and they are, then bravo to them and I wish them well.

Yes, I am a corporate Marketing Manager by trade... the only one here on CPF, I think!!


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## Delta (May 5, 2007)

MattK said:


> They have for quite some time...they're 'quadpacked' in little black tubes. You'd only find them at a company like mine, not on the shelf at Target.




I'd never even heard of colored V2 X1's. What colors do you have?


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## pilou (May 5, 2007)

matt, are the Gen 3 lenses just glued on the bezels like the Gen 2 ones or are they back to being secured behind the bezel?


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## pilou (May 5, 2007)

Some of you folks are just funny. For $16.95 (at Batteryjunction), you are getting a beautifully finished, very high quality, extremely tough HA III body, a nice lens, a nice SS bezel, a very reliable twist switch with momentary on, and a brightness level that is more than enough for indoor or close range use, ALL WITH LIFETIME WARRANTY. I have a Gen 2 X1, and my $42 Fenix L2P, while brighter, cannot compete in terms of quality of construction. Not even close. Just read about all the problems reported for Fenixes (loose fitting heads, dying lights, bad machining of reflectors, etc.). And how about the flimsy switch? For $17, you can't also get a brighter LED, two-stages, etc. Such lights are being sold for $40 with much lower quality construction. Those that have Crees and multilevel are going for $50+, and once you add better body and switches, you quickly for in the $50-80 range.

For $17, let's keep our expectations realistic.


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## Retinator (May 5, 2007)

Dano- I think you're right about some of us being spoiled.

For me the 2nd gen X1 is more than enough for my low end needs.

I wonder if they went brighter because of competition with Fenix and others. The trend is that ppl want the brightest, smallest light available. But I sometimes believe that's because ppl want a big WOW factor.

Everything from cars to lights have become a must have it better than the next guy mentality to it. 

But as Matt said, 2hrs on a single AA cell isn't too bad. As far as the general non CPFer goes, I think the new X1 will do well. And hey, there's always the untouched X5 if you really need the longer runtime.

who knows, maybe Gen4 will be cree'd, or better, and resolve the runtime issues ppl have now.


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## Phaserburn (May 5, 2007)

Truth is, unless you're a professional or a CPFer, once you have a light that outputs 60-80 lumens, you now have a "bright light", more than you ever had before. This is where I think Inova is going with their new line of lights. Bright, great quality build, and ultra-reliable.

In a REAL pinch, would I grab my Fenix P3D or Inova T1 (new model)? Not even close: the Inova wins hands down. The Fenix is brighter, BUT... the Inova is SOLID, and I'd trust my life to it before I did with the Fenix. Don't get me wrong, I love Fenix lights as much as the next guy.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (May 5, 2007)

dano said:


> It's threads like these, were people complain about a product, and seem to think that they have some foresight above and beyond a major company's research, product, and development, market placement, etc, without even having the product in hand, that makes me think that CPF is heading in the wrong direction; that of an elitist, never satisfied group.
> 
> The X1 fills a gap in Inova's line, and I'm sure Inova did enough research and development to justify the light's manufacture. Has anyone ever pondered to ask why Streamlight, Inova, Surefire haven't jumped on the Cree (or Seoul) bandwagon? Are they being slow with this supposed advancement, maybe because the newest LED's either don't fit in the product line, or maybe these new LED's have a possible long term issue?
> 
> ...


 Clap Clap Clap!!


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## p97z (May 5, 2007)

For around the house use I think the X1 is perfect. You can shine it at something close up and it won't burn out your retina's. I think it has a nice flood with great color. I used my Gen2 every day and it has a blue tint. In my opinion the X1 is one of the best values per dollar. It has useable lumens. The fit and finish is impeccable...


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## winchesterdon (May 5, 2007)

I received mine the other day (very fast shipping ) from Matt. I expected a brighter light as it was advertised as a 2 watt led ,when compared to my other lights it was dim ,but I don't own any consumer lights , A more fitting comparison would be to a Mag 2AA incan but I no longer have one . It is a very well built $20 ,shipped to my door, light that will be loaded with a lithium cell and spend its life on a key ring or in a purse and when its needed it will work


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## pilou (May 5, 2007)

Isn't it a little big to go on a key ring?


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## bondr006 (May 5, 2007)

Well, mine has grown on me in the day I've had it.....and, I have decided to keep it. It has a reall nice solid feeling to it, and it's just sexy looking. I do still wish it was a little bighter. Oh well. I now want a new T1. If I could just find one locally.


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## Warp (May 5, 2007)

Phaserburn said:


> In a REAL pinch, would I grab my Fenix P3D or Inova T1 (new model)? Not even close: the Inova wins hands down. The Fenix is brighter, BUT... the Inova is SOLID, and I'd trust my life to it before I did with the Fenix. Don't get me wrong, I love Fenix lights as much as the next guy.


 
Exactly where I stand. 

I EDC a P1, but it is not my go to light if it MUST work. That's what my Surefire is for...though I might replace it with an Inova.

The P1 is there because it is tiny, and fully regulated, and BRIGHT....just not bet-your-life reliable.


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## espy (May 6, 2007)

> It is a very well built $20 ,shipped to my door, light that will be loaded with a lithium cell and spend its life on a key ring or in a purse and when its needed it will work



I thought the X1 series was recommended for Alkaline only? I'm a new flashlight enthusiast so I don't know much about other people's experiences running the X1 with non-alkaline batteries. Is is safe to use lithiums or even NiMHs? I have a second generation X1. It also seems lithium cell users tend to get extra brightness? Could someone list pros and cons of each type of cell use?


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## GarageBoy (May 6, 2007)

I hope its not too bright


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## Martini (May 6, 2007)

Okay, it's late, and I'm tired, but the Luxeon portable seems to only make about 22 lm/w??? Why on earth would Inova switch to _that?_


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## Chusco411 (May 6, 2007)

Am I really so wierd because the new X1 is exaclty what I have been hoping for? Is there anything wrong with wanting a dependable small light, (both in length and diameter), with reasonable brightness, reasonable runtime, and a momentary button and a twist switch all for a affordable price made by a company with a solid reputation. By reasonable I am refering to what is reasonable to expect for the price paid. I don't want anything fancy, I don't want multiple stages just a solid light that will work when I need it. I am glad that there is a good company willing to provide a product like this. Apparantly if they are willing to produce it then there must be a lot more people like me who it appeals to. That is just my opinion.

On another note is anyone willing to do a review on this if they can? I would love to know acutal runtime and brightness.

Lastly Matt do you have these in black or just titanium?


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## bondr006 (May 6, 2007)

espy said:


> I thought the X1 series was recommended for Alkaline only? I'm a new flashlight enthusiast so I don't know much about other people's experiences running the X1 with non-alkaline batteries. Is is safe to use lithiums or even NiMHs? I have a second generation X1. It also seems lithium cell users tend to get extra brightness? Could someone list pros and cons of each type of cell use?



I would like to know this also. I am going to pick up some lithiums today if it's ok to use them in my X1. I also wonder if it would be safe to use a 14500 3.6 volt in the X1? The packaging says it is a regulated light.


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## ringzero (May 6, 2007)

Chusco411 said:


> Am I really so wierd because the new X1 is exaclty what I have been hoping for? Is there anything wrong with wanting a dependable small light...for a affordable price made by a company with a solid reputation.



Hey Chusco411, you're not weird and there's nothing wrong with wanting this type of light.

My pocket lights and backup lights need to be tough and dependable. Toughness and dependability count far more than brightness with me, and the KISS principle counts for something.

Having tried out quite a few LED lights of this class, I've come to the conclusion that 20 lumens, plus or minus, is the most output really needed. 20 lumens is good enough:
-to accomplish most any close to medium range task
-to walk a rough trail
-to bushwack, if necessary
-to get out of a jam due to blackout, natural disaster, etc.

That said, I also value runtime with 2 hours being about the minimum acceptable for me in a pocket light.

Because of these factors, I haven't bought any of the newer Fenix Cree lights. I don't care for the kitchen sink of levels and features, nor the mickey mouse UIs necessary to access all those levels and features.

I only wish Fenix would offer some of it's classics - E1, Civictor, L1, L2, L1S, L2S - with SSC emitters. Should be very easy for Fenix, basically just use SSCs instead of Luxeons during assembly. I'd buy any of those lights in a heartbeat.

.


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## Chusco411 (May 6, 2007)

RINGZERO

I agree that runtime seems to be a weaker caractaristic, this is why I am so anxious for someone to actually do a runtime test. However AA's are cheap and where I will be carrying it in one of the two strech elastic sleeves that make up the side of my leatherman core case, if need be I will just throw a second battery in the 2nd sleeve and double my runtime with only minor added weight and not really any add space. You can see what I mean with the leatherman case at this link. http://moontrail.com/ltg-core.php#LED


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## parnass (May 6, 2007)

*Inova X1 (3rd Gen) vs. Gerber Firecracker?*

The Gerber Firecracker and the 3rd generation Inova X1 are in the same price and size category. The Firecracker is shown here:

http://www.knifesupplycompany.com/80106.html

and discussed in this thread:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/157432

Interested in hearing from people who have tried both the 3rd generation Inova X1 and Gerber Firecracker. Which is brighter? Has the whiter tint? Throws farther?

Thanks.


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## ringzero (May 6, 2007)

Chusco411 said:


> I agree that runtime seems to be a weaker caractaristic, this is why I am so anxious for someone to actually do a runtime test. However AA's are cheap and where I will be carrying it in one of the two strech elastic sleeves that make up the side of my leatherman core case, if need be I will just throw a second battery in the 2nd sleeve and double my runtime with only minor added weight and not really any add space.



Hey Chusco411, you might want to have a look at the Gerber Firecracker in the links above.

At this point we don't know the runtime of either light for sure. However, it's looking as if the Firecracker offers a much better runtime with only slightly less output.

Gerber lights tend to get trashed by some people on CPF, but Gerber has made some very decent lights in the past. The Gerber Infinity is a great little light, and is at least as tough as the Inova X1 - maybe tougher.

The Firecracker probably won't be as finely finished and anodized as the new Inova X1 but it may turn out to be just as durable. Functionally, the Firecracker may well turn out to be a better light than the new X1.

That looks like a decent sheath for carrying your Leatherman plus a light and spare cell. I sometimes carry a 1AA backup light with spare AA cell in an old Blackie Collins cordura belt sheath.

.


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## MattK (May 6, 2007)

Gen 3 X1's are only in-stock in Titanium currently the blacks are expected soonish. The bezels are very secure. The bezel issue on Gen2's that keeps popping up was an issue for all of 1 months producion, well over a year ago - long ago resolved.

I imagine a AA lithium PRIMARY (energizer e91) is fine. I cannot recommend a 14500 lithium ION battery at this time - I haven't tested it but I would not assume the electronics can handle it nor that it's warranteed for such usage.


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## guam9092 (May 6, 2007)

MattK said:


> Gen 3 X1's are only in-stock in Titanium currently the blacks are expected soonish. The bezels are very secure. The bezel issue on Gen2's that keeps popping up was an issue for all of 1 months producion, well over a year ago - long ago resolved.
> 
> I imagine a AA lithium PRIMARY (energizer e91) is fine. I cannot recommend a 14500 lithium ION battery at this time - I haven't tested it but I would not assume the electronics can handle it nor that it's warranteed for such usage.



I placed a AA Lithium in my 2007 Inova X1 and it is working fine.


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## cratz2 (May 6, 2007)

I'm sure that alkalines, primary lithium, and rechargeable NiMH cells will all be fine in the X1. They have always worked fine on the previous versions of the X1. I also bet that the X1 and the 2xAAA Bolt use the exact same LED, engine and reflector assembly so it's probably fine from ~.8V up to 3.4V or so (for two primary lithium cells.)

I do agree with those that are defending the new X1. Inova has a well-proven name and in my opinion, is the name to beat for reasonable cost LED lights. Surefire are fine lights as well, but their LEDs are quite a bit more expensive. A handful of folks have reported tailcap issues with Inova lights, but they are few and far between and we also have to keep in mind that probably 90% of CPFers that have been here a year or more have owned an Inova and probably 5 out of 2,000+ have had an issue. The bezel issue seems to have been fixed almost immediately.

Having said that, if the light does only put out about 20 lumens and does only get around 2 hours of runtime, that doesn't seem very effecient to me. I don't have a new X1 yet though I will certainly end up getting a couple. I do have the 2xAAA Bolt and I quite like the beam shape... almost a full flood, albiet not radically bright. But there isn't really a glaring hotspot. I'd really like to find out that the light gets closer to 45 hours to 50% using NiMH cells.


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## Chusco411 (May 7, 2007)

ringzero

I am watching both the X1 and the Firecracker hoping that some good reviews will be done on both of them so that I can really compare and decide which I want. Right now I am leaning towards the X1 it seems to be winning in the areas of diameter, cost (not by tons) and brightness, on the other hand it appears the Firecracker is going to have the best runtime (not the most important area for me buy it may be for others).


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## ringzero (May 7, 2007)

cratz2 said:


> Having said that, if the light does only put out about 20 lumens and does only get around 2 hours of runtime, that doesn't seem very effecient to me. I don't have a new X1 yet though I will certainly end up getting a couple. I do have the 2xAAA Bolt and I quite like the beam shape... almost a full flood, albiet not radically bright. But there isn't really a glaring hotspot. I'd really like to find out that the light gets closer to 45 hours to 50% using NiMH cells.



The mini-review and pics you posted of the Inova Bolt 2AAA was excellent work, cratz2.

Since then, have you had the chance to gain an impression of the Bolt 2AAA runtime?

At this point there seems to be nothing available on Bolt 2AAA runtime - just a rough estimate of how long it will run before a battery change is needed would be helpful.

Since you believe the Bolt 2AAA uses the same emitter as the X1 GenIII, I'm thinking that the Bolt 2AAA runtime may not be very good. 

.


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## Martini (May 7, 2007)

cratz2 said:


> Having said that, if the light does only put out about 20 lumens and does only get around 2 hours of runtime, that doesn't seem very effecient to me.


As I said earlier, according to Lumileds and Inova specs, the X1 is only making 22 lm/w. Considering that quartz halogens can make 24 lm/w, this is not very impressive. Clearly, the idea was to use the smallest light source available to make better use of the limited reflector area and improve throw. While this is a nice idea, I think beam quality and throw are secondary to runtime in what was previously used as a long-running emergency light. Clearly Inova's purposes for this light were different from ours. :shrug:


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## SoundMix (May 7, 2007)

Martini said:


> Clearly, the idea was to use the smallest light source available to make better use of the limited reflector area and improve throw. While this is a nice idea, I think beam quality and throw are secondary to runtime in what was previously used as a long-running emergency light. Clearly Inova's purposes for this light were different from ours. :shrug:


 
I agree. A light with such limited runtime would not be my goto light.


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## Lumenation (May 7, 2007)

Just as fast as I took my new Inova X1 Gen. 3 out of the box, I put it back in an immediately put it on the Sell thread. But not too many people seemed to be interested in this thing. I have always liked Inova, but the new X1 is not an upgrade over the previous version at all. I wish they would have put a K2 in this thing at least, hell, I would have preferred a Luxeon I over this new LED. If anybody wants this thing, I have it for sale at $18 shipped in the US. Or if someone would like to throw a Seoul in this thing for me, just PM me.


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## pilou (May 7, 2007)

Lumenation said:


> I put it back in an immediately put it on the Sell thread. ... but the new X1 is not an upgrade over the previous version at all.




What were you expecting and what did you get instead?


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## Lumenation (May 7, 2007)

I was expecting something with at least the brightness of my fenix L1P. But this new X1 is barely brighter than my X1 generation 2, even if it is brighter. Also the beam is ringy. I am guessing my new X1 is a solid 10 lumens


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## skalomax (May 7, 2007)

Yeah, Just got my 3rd Gen X1. It's nice, But It's dim compared to all other LED flashlights.


The Finish Is nice, It has a nice long reflector, but the beam Is a bit ring with an abnormal hotspot.

I'm send one to Milkyspit see what He can do.

I say It's about 12lm MAX.

Just a pinch brighter than a 2nd Gen X1.
Will take beamshots later on tonight.


Thanks


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## Pokerstud (May 7, 2007)

MattK said:


> They have for quite some time...they're 'quadpacked' in little black tubes. You'd only find them at a company like mine, not on the shelf at Target.


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## LG&M (May 7, 2007)

I just received my X1. Fast shipping from battery junction. It's not as bright as I hoped. The biggest disappointment was the bezel was loose too the point it rattled. It was a easy fix but I expect more from a company that is supposed to be known for their build quality. At lest this should make it easier to put a better LED in it. If I only knew how. I just took a look at The LED. It is off center as well. I would think they would at lest QC the first batch. I was thinking about getting a T1. Now I think not.


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## jram67 (May 7, 2007)

Yep, I just got mine and I am surprised at how dim it is. My bezel was loose also, no big deal since it screws on. My led is off center as well.


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## Delta (May 7, 2007)

At least I still have my shiny Red anodized Gen 1...


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## MattK (May 7, 2007)

LG&M and jram67 - The LED is not off center. If you take a close look you will see that the emitter is _optically_ centered but that the emitter is placed off center on the PCB. It's the PCB that's not centered, nor should it be.


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## bondr006 (May 7, 2007)

Although it's not as bright as I'd like it to be, this little light has really grown on me. The build quality is A1 for a $20.00 light. The beam on mine is very good with a nice hot spot and plenty of spill. I will be looking for the first mods on the gen 3 X1's. If it had 35 - 40 lumens, it would be the perfect EDC for me. I also will be looking for one of the new T1's.


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## LG&M (May 7, 2007)

MattK said:


> LG&M and jram67 - The LED is not off center. If you take a close look you will see that the emitter is _optically_ centered but that the emitter is placed off center on the PCB. It's the PCB that's not centered, nor should it be.


 OK I see that now... Was the bezel loose?


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## DaveG (May 7, 2007)

I have Gen 1 and Gen 2 now have a Gen 3. I think this the best one so far, at least Inova is trying to improve its products.For the average consumer this is a great pocket light for the price.


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## :)> (May 7, 2007)

I am a little disappointed in this light. Unless it runs for around 5 to 7 hours at this output level then it is a little anemic for me. 

It would be a great host for a Cree or a Seoul because the reflector is beautiful and deep too. 

-Goatee


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## chevrofreak (May 7, 2007)

:)> said:


> I am a little disappointed in this light. Unless it runs for around 5 to 7 hours at this output level then it is a little anemic for me.
> 
> It would be a great host for a Cree or a Seoul because the reflector is beautiful and deep too.
> 
> -Goatee



I'm doing a runtime on a Duracell 2650 right now. Alkalines next, but no lithiums since I'm out.

So far, it's not look all that promising.


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## cratz2 (May 7, 2007)

chevrofreak said:


> I'm doing a runtime on a Duracell 2650 right now. Alkalines next, but no lithiums since I'm out.
> 
> So far, it's not look all that promising.



My WAG is 2:10 to 50% on alkalines, 3:40 on NiMH cells.

Honestly, it's a solid feeling light, but the runtime vs brightness just doesn't seem to be where it should be. The L1P v2.5 managed almost 2 hours on 2300mAh cells at 25 lumens using 3 year old LED technology.

Honestly, I like the beam this the X1 and the 2xAAA Bolt puts out, but it is fairly non-traditional and I can see why many folks won't like it. 

To my eyes, it looks close to twice as bright as the Gen 2 X1... a hair under 20 Lumens is my guess... definately over 15. But the Gen 2 looks close to 10 lumens and almost 10 hours. Definately the funky Nichia CS coloring, but that seems to be a LOT more effecient.


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## chevrofreak (May 7, 2007)

cratz2 said:


> My WAG is 2:10 to 50% on alkalines, 3:40 on NiMH cells.
> 
> Honestly, it's a solid feeling light, but the runtime vs brightness just doesn't seem to be where it should be. The L1P v2.5 managed almost 2 hours on 2300mAh cells at 25 lumens using 3 year old LED technology.
> 
> ...




You're pretty close on your lumen estimate. With the supplied Energizer alkaline that had a bit of use on it I measured 16.5 estimated in my home made sphere.


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## chevrofreak (May 7, 2007)

Actually, the steady decrease I saw at the beginning stopped and the light has been running dead flat at about 12.9 lumens and will probably run for quite a while.


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## jram67 (May 7, 2007)

I stand corrected! Matt is right, the LED is centered
Now somebody needs to figure out how to mod one with a Seoul


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## espy (May 7, 2007)

> Actually, the steady decrease I saw at the beginning stopped and the light has been running dead flat at about 12.9 lumens and will probably run for quite a while.



I wonder how long it will run at 12.9 lumens. The second gen X1 was probably what, 10 lumens at initial usage before tapering down? So if the third gen X1 runs at 12.9 for even five hours, it might be worth the upgrade?

Thanks for information about battery usage guys. I might try using NiMHs or Lithiums in my second gen X1.


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## Martini (May 7, 2007)

cratz2 said:


> To my eyes, it looks close to twice as bright as the Gen 2 X1... a hair under 20 Lumens is my guess... definately over 15. But the Gen 2 looks close to 10 lumens and almost 10 hours. Definately the funky Nichia CS coloring, but that seems to be a LOT more effecient.


A Nichia CS overdriven at 100mA would put out about 15 lumens. The various Cree and Seoul bins floating around would only need about 50mA to get in the right range, offering _seven times_ the runtime that the X1 has now.

See why I was disappointed?


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## parnass (May 7, 2007)

Does the packaging on both the second and third generation Inova X1s bear the same SKU number?


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## Raven (May 8, 2007)

Does the new X1 have the same output as an Inova X5?


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## bondr006 (May 8, 2007)

Raven said:


> Does the new X1 have the same output as an Inova X5?



I don't see how it can. They seem to be two completely different lights. The X1 has one LED and runs off one AA 1.5v battery. The X5 has 5 LED's and runs off from two 123A batteries. The X1's run time is up to two hours with 100 feet effective range and the X5's run time is up to 20 hours with 120 feet effective range.


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## pilou (May 8, 2007)

cratz2 said:


> The L1P v2.5 managed almost 2 hours on 2300mAh cells at 25 lumens using 3 year old LED technology.



But the L1P was a $40 light! You are comparing it to a $17 light. Even though the Fenix E1 takes AAA batteries, that is the light you should compare to the X1. The E1 costs about $25, it is dimmer, and built quality isn't the same, and neither is the warranty the same. I just found an X1 vs E1 output/runtime plot on Chevro's site, and although I don't know which Gen X1 it is for, the X1 brighter and longer running according to his graph.


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## Blindasabat (May 8, 2007)

Just got mine last night - Thanks Matt.

First impression: The finish is improved with more grip than the previous versions I have. A micro roughness that feels high quality, tough, and grippier for easier momentary operation. The threads are even better than before. Great quality for the price.

Beam: My example trades the blue center of the gen 2 for a more even slight green tint, but is also brighter with a little more of a "spot plus spill" style beam compared to last year's X1 floodier (wide spot plus corona) beam. The tint should be good outside, but my eyes have compared enough LEDs in the past year and a half to pick it up very quickly inside. The Luxeon lottery still thrives. The central spot is slightly squared off with almost flares out the four corners. It looks like a round spot overlaying a four pointed star. Spill is good, not too wide to light up everything close by when you are trying to see something farther away. The deep reflector gets the credit there. 

Overall: I like it! Cost benefit is good to me. I wish it had a more efficient emitter for more run time, but for my purposes, it 's great. A true 'value' in a quality light with security and backing of a good company with lifetime warranty.

I can see Rebel upgrades being popular for these if the Rebel is more efficient. Of course, maybe Inova will do that as an upgrade for next year. They upgraded the LEDs in the Gen 2 over Gen 1, so it is not unthinkable.


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## cratz2 (May 8, 2007)

Keep in mind, I am defending the newest X1. I like it... I've liked all of them. I'm just saying that the runtime vs brightness curve doesn't seem to be quite ideal in my opinion... That's all. It's plenty bright for me, but for just a couple $$$ more, they could have built something using a K2 that might do 15-20 lumens for 5 hours. 

Most mass produced companies build to a price point... But if Inova had built a $3 more expensive light, it would have been considerably better... Not that that means they still won't a TON of new X1s which I'm sure they will. I'd guess than 99% of Target shoppers don't know the difference between a K2 and this LED... The only people on the planet that will squabble over the brightness vs runtime are members of this forum. 

But... it absolutely would have been a better product if it could do 20 lumens for 5 hours and cost $3 more.


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## Delta (May 8, 2007)

cratz2 said:


> The only people on the planet that will squabble over the brightness vs runtime are members of this forum.




I still think the issue is THEY (Inova) had to have know that this package could have EASILY been much better with little effort from a large company. Their motives will remain shrouded in mystery.

This will rank right up there with other great questions:

"What really happened to the Mayan civilization?"

"How were the pyramids built?"

"Are UFO's real?"

"Why did Inova build such a disapointing, underperforming light?"


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## parnass (May 8, 2007)

Delta said:


> I still think the issue is THEY (Inova) had to have know that this package could have EASILY been much better with little effort from a large company. Their motives will remain shrouded in mystery.
> ...



I wonder if Target is Inova's largest X1 buyer.

The Inova X1's current price is about $3 below the competing River Rock 1 watt 1AA light displayed within 3 feet of it in hundreds of Target stores across the USA. Maybe that is Inova's motivation to keep the X1 price low.


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## bondr006 (May 8, 2007)

parnass said:


> I wonder if Target is Inova's largest X1 buyer.
> 
> The Inova X1's current price is about $3 below the competing River Rock 1 watt 1AA light displayed within 3 feet of it in hundreds of Target stores across the USA. Maybe that is Inova's motivation to keep the X1 price low.



Yes, and the 1 Watt RiverRock has at least twice the lumens of the 2 Watt X1 for just a couple of dollars more.


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## Chusco411 (May 8, 2007)

Has anyone done a runtime/brightness check with regular alkaline batteries? Or is there just a lot of complaining going on about something that is not even known? I know that chevrofreak posted somethings on his runtime charts but I don't believe that they were alkalines (not to mention I have no clue how to read the left hand bar on the one that compares the Inova and the Fenix). I am kind of new to this and really don't understand all the numbers and types associated with AA batteries (if anyone wants to enlighten me as to the AA battery options that are avaliable that would be great), I plan on getting a new X1 and will probably never use anything other than normal alkaline batteries, I am really curious as to what kind of preformance I will really see. I hope that this make sense and I appreciate anyone who is able to help answer/deal with any of these issues.


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## Raven (May 8, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> Yes, and the 1 Watt RiverRock has at least twice the lumens of the 2 Watt X1 for just a couple of dollars more.



Keep in mind that Inova lights cost more because they aren't made in sweatshops.


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## bondr006 (May 8, 2007)

Raven said:


> Keep in mind that Inova lights cost more because they aren't made in sweatshops.



You are quite right. They are made by greedy, pampered, over paid union workers who get paid the same high wages whether they are lazy butts or hard working individuals, and therefore the prices are driven up. No wonder companies are outsourcing their labor force just to stay competitive. If it weren't for the labor unions and oil companies the cost of living wouldn't be so sky high in the US.


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## MattK (May 8, 2007)

I don't believe Inova employees are unionized.

Inova light cost more because they use top quality materials and finishing, are made domestically come with a lifetime warranty. Inova flashlights are sold at very low markups by dealers and the prices you guys are paying are actually below what the product SHOULD be selling for but Inova's lax control over their distributors (and their very distribution model) means that a fine product has been commoditized. 

Rob, I don't want to get into a political discussion here but I will say that labor unions are one of the reasons our STANDARDS of living are so high. Whether our cost of living is high here and, if so, who is to blame is fodder for a different forum.


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## jram67 (May 8, 2007)

It's comments like this that are lowering the quality of this forum.


bondr006 said:


> You are quite right. They are made by greedy, pampered, over paid union workers who get paid the same high wages whether they are lazy butts or hard working individuals, and therefore the prices are driven up. No wonder companies are outsourcing their labor force just to stay competitive. If it weren't for the labor unions and oil companies the cost of living wouldn't be so sky high in the US.


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## cratz2 (May 8, 2007)

From the looks of Chevro's run, it looks like a hair over 3 hours to 50%. That doesn't look terribly bad.

http://lights.chevrofreak.com/runtimes/Inova X1.png


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## cave dave (May 8, 2007)

hmm,
Drive to Target for $20 Inova X1 or paypal $29 to 4sevens for L1S?


chevrofreak said:


> Fenix L1S - high - Duracell 2650mAh Ni-MH: 417 - (estimated 29.79 lumens) 2hrs 46min
> Fenix L1S - low - Duracell 2650mAh Ni-MH: 113 - (estimated 8.07 lumens), 12hrs 26 min


 Enough Said! * L1S*


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## chevrofreak (May 9, 2007)

cratz2 said:


> From the looks of Chevro's run, it looks like a hair over 3 hours to 50%. That doesn't look terribly bad.
> 
> http://lights.chevrofreak.com/runtimes/Inova X1.png




No it's not that bad, but I think it's about the same output and runtime as the original Fenix L1P from like 2 years ago.

I added an alkaline plot to that graph. It strobes when the output reaches about 50% and continues doing so for a while. It's really fairly annoying, but if you use Ni-MH cells it will warn you that you're about empty.


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## nanotech17 (May 9, 2007)

this one looks similiar to the Inova X1 emitter.http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3130


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## QuinnK (May 9, 2007)

As has already been mentioned, there's a vast difference between the general buying public and the members of this forum. Let's face it, fanatics (sorry, fans) in any area, be it flashlights, guns, whatever... tend to focus on the details and are willing to pay more money (sometimes lots more money) to get what they want. Most folks in the general buying public don't know (or care) about most of the details, they're just looking for something they think will work for their purpose and not cost too much.

$3.00 doesn't sound like much more for a flashlight (it's a fairly healthy percentage increase though from $19), from the viewpoint of flashlight enthusiests, to get something they desire (particular for people paying the prices for many of the flashlights discussed on these forums)... but, to many average buyers in Target and such places, even $15-20 seems like a lot for a very small flashlight... particularly given the low prices of much of what they've seen. To many of those buyers (who consider Maglites the top of the line), $22 for a small flashlight seems very expensive for what they see.

True, more knowledgeable buyers may be perfectly happy to pay over $20 for a light they see the advantages of, but it's very possible the marketing folks at Inova have determined those buyers would be far outnumbered by folks who will buy something cheaper than a $22 small flashlight. They could very well be right, as a matter of fact... determining what folks will and will not buy (and why) in a particular market is a complicated process. Sounds like Inova offers a lot for the market they're going after, and they may well have it pretty well figured.

Take care... Quinn


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## jumpstat (May 9, 2007)

Inovas are built solid I reckon, having a second gen already, I wouldn't mind getting the latest 3rd gen.....


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## Raven (May 9, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> You are quite right. They are made by greedy, pampered, over paid union workers who get paid the same high wages whether they are lazy butts or hard working individuals, and therefore the prices are driven up. No wonder companies are outsourcing their labor force just to stay competitive. If it weren't for the labor unions and oil companies the cost of living wouldn't be so sky high in the US.



LOL

Mega dittos, dude. Mega dittos


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## Flying Turtle (May 9, 2007)

I figured I'd add this to my Gen. 1 and 2, but with no more punch or runtime than it has I guess the bloodline will end for me. On the other hand, I go to Target fairly often and I'm not immune to impulse.

Geoff


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## Chusco411 (May 9, 2007)

Are there any litihum batteries that will be safe to run in the X1 by safe I mean have the same output (watts, volts, amps or whatever it is) but just last longer?


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## bondr006 (May 9, 2007)

Chusco411 said:


> Are there any litihum batteries that will be safe to run in the X1 by safe I mean have the same output (watts, volts, amps or whatever it is) but just last longer?



I am using Energizer Lithiums in my Gen3 X1 with no problems.


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## Chusco411 (May 9, 2007)

So are Energizer Lithiums different than the 14500?? that I have heard talked about? And what will using Energizer Lithiums instead of alkaline do to runtime and output?

Thank you


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## Blindasabat (May 9, 2007)

AA Energizer (L-91 or something) Lithium primaries are 1.7V, not 3V like CR123 Lithium primaries. It is a little confusing, and I don't know why we can't get 3.0V AA sized Lithium primaries, except that many Many MANY people would blow their AA devices with them. Right now you have to tear open a $6 CRV3 to get two 3.0V AA's. 
Compare both battery types listed on the same page here:
http://www.batteryjunction.com/caba1.html


Chusco411 said:


> So are Energizer Lithiums different than the 14500?? that I have heard talked about? And what will using Energizer Lithiums instead of alkaline do to runtime and output?


14500's are 3.7V rechargeables. Basically an RCR123 (16340) in the shape of a AA battery.


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## Chusco411 (May 9, 2007)

Well now I am just about as confused as I possilbe can be, I know that it would be best to just wait for more information to become avaliable but my OCD is really kicking in and I am not going to be able to stop worring until I figure out what the best option is. I want an Inova X1 but right now I am really unsure weither I want the Gen 2 or the Gen 3. If anyone can please help me with the following items maybe I will be able to make a decision.

1. Based on chevrofreak's runtime graph the Gen 3 starts out fairly high but drops steely. Based on the runtime graph on flashlightreviews.com the Gen 2 has a very slow decline over a much longer time. I am sure that there is a point in runtime when the Gen 3 becomes dimmer than the Gen 2 however since flashlightreviews.com does the graph in percentage of initial output and chevrofreak does his in estimated lumens, I can't figure out what that point is. Maybe someone with more knowledge than me can figure this out or maybe some one knows somewhere that has runtime charts that can be compared staight across. If not maybe someone with both lights would do a brightness/runtime chart that would show at what point they intersect.

2. Is there any 1.5 volt battery option that will increase brightness? I know that runtime can be increased with NiMh batteries (thanks to Chevrofreak's chart) and I would assue that the same would be true with lithium. 

3. Can anyone post a picture beamshots side by side of the Gen 2 and Gen 3 running off the same type of batteries (preferably both brand new). I am curious what the percived difference in brightness is going to be from Gen 2 to Gen 3.

I hope that this made sense and that someone will be able to help me figure this out before I go crazy.

Thank you


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## cave dave (May 9, 2007)

QuinnK said:


> As has already been mentioned, there's a vast difference between the general buying public and the members of this forum. ...


True, but the general public is going to walk into Target and say hmm should I buy the Inova "2 Watt" flashlight for $20 or the "1 Watt" flashlight from River Rock for $24 and every single one of them will buy the Inova because they think its brighter and its cheaper. When in fact what they just bought is in fact a 0.5 watt flashlight that's dimmer, has a worse beam, and the runtime isn't much better. In my opinion they have been *lied *too and they made their buying decision based on *lies *not on good engineering. I sort of expect that from oversees companies but hoped for better from Inova. :thumbsdown:


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## skalomax (May 9, 2007)

cave dave said:


> True, but the general public is going to walk into Target and say hmm should I buy the Inova "2 Watt" flashlight for $20 or the "1 Watt" flashlight from River Rock for $24 and every single one of them will buy the Inova because they think its brighter and its cheaper. When in fact what they just bought is in fact a 0.5 watt flashlight that's dimmer, has a worse beam, and the runtime isn't much better. In my opinion they have been *lied *too and they made their buying decision based on *lies *not on good engineering. I sort of expect that from oversees companies but hoped for better from Inova. :thumbsdown:


 
Agreed, Inova was a great company, now they're all about marketing hype and sadly, It works.


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## MattK (May 9, 2007)

They still make a great product so I think it's hardly fair to say they're all hype and marketing. Look at Maglite doing the same thing advertising everything as 3W.

Some of you may be interested in this new TerraLUX light - 1 AAA, brighter than the Gen 3 X1 and with some cool accessories - I have no idea on runtime yet so don't even ask. 

LINK


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## skalomax (May 9, 2007)

MattK said:


> They still make a great product so I think it's hardly fair to say they're all hype and marketing. Look at Maglite doing the same thing advertising everything as 3W.


 
I see, It Is a Luxeon III and people commonly refer It to a 3 Watt LED.

I also see your point.

I agree, Ivova Does make great prodcuts (Reliablity wise). They're not the brightest, But again they're not intended to be.


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## chevrofreak (May 9, 2007)

MattK said:


> They still make a great product so I think it's hardly fair to say they're all hype and marketing. Look at Maglite doing the same thing advertising everything as 3W.
> 
> Some of you may be interested in this new TerraLUX light - 1 AAA, brighter than the Gen 3 X1 and with some cool accessories - I have no idea on runtime yet so don't even ask.
> 
> LINK




Looks like one of the Nuwai lights that was rebranded as River Rock and sold at Target.


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## Martini (May 9, 2007)

MattK said:


> They still make a great product so I think it's hardly fair to say they're all hype and marketing. Look at Maglite doing the same thing advertising everything as 3W.


Yes, this brand of mislabeling is extremely prevalent, but I'm still not sure how they figure it's a 2 watt LED. At the maximum Vf of 4.5 and continuous current of 350, it would be burning 1.575 watts. Can we add this to the list of misleading claims?


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## LightScene (May 9, 2007)

MattK said:


> Some of you may be interested in this new TerraLUX light - 1 AAA, brighter than the Gen 3 X1 and with some cool accessories - I have no idea on runtime yet so don't even ask.
> 
> LINK


Any estimate on lumens? Are we talking 15, 20, 25?


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## bondr006 (May 9, 2007)

That looks very similar to my 1AA RiverRock. I like it quite much and this one looks very interesting also. The RiverRock is also 1 watt at 42 lumens. How many lumens for the TerraLUX?

My RiverRock









MattK said:


> Some of you may be interested in this new TerraLUX light - 1 AAA, brighter than the Gen 3 X1 and with some cool accessories - I have no idea on runtime yet so don't even ask.
> 
> LINK


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## cave dave (May 9, 2007)

River Rock 1W with reflector only puts out around 25 lumens out the front end, so their 42 lumen BS hype is misleading too. I'm frankly against all the marketing that is deliberately meant to mislead people no matter who it comes from.


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## bondr006 (May 9, 2007)

cave dave said:


> River Rock 1W with reflector only puts out around 25 lumens out the front end, so their 42 lumen BS hype is misleading too. I'm frankly against all the marketing that is deliberately meant to mislead people no matter who it comes from.



How can you measure how many lumens a light is really putting out? I have several lights I would like to test.


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## Chusco411 (May 10, 2007)

How does the quality of TerraLUX stack up compared to Inova? Also what is the warranty like?

Thanks


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## jsr (May 10, 2007)

The TerraLUX is a rebranded Nuwai 1AAA 0.5W light, but it seems they replaced the emitter.

Matt - What emitter does the TerraLUX use? And like those who asked, any estimate on actual out-the-front lumens? I like light...I loved the Nuwai 1AAAs I had, but gave them all away or broke them (from mod attempts).


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## kevinm (May 10, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> That looks very similar to my 1AA RiverRock. I like it quite much and this one looks very interesting also. The RiverRock is also 1 watt at 42 lumens. How many lumens for the TerraLUX?



It should look similar; both are made by Nuwai (Quantum Lighting). That one is the TM-310H body, which used to house a 0.5 W LED very similar to the SMJLED. They are good lights in their original configuration (and $8 or so). See

http://store.advancedmart.com/nu5waposiled.html

If TerraLux used a Cree, it might have good runtime at those lumens. Otherwise, it's probably short on runtime.

Kevin


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## kevinm (May 10, 2007)

From Flashlightreviews.com:

"Danger, Will Robinson! Danger! Inova has come out with yet another version of the X1! They have gotten rid of the Nichia LED and replaced it with a Luxeon LXCL-PWT3, similar to this one. This change results in about twice the brightness, but our eyes work on a logrithmic scale, so a doubling of brightness isn't perceived as much of a change. The  cost of this extra brightness is staggering. The light now has only about 20% of the runtime of the Nichia version! It now has a listed runtime of less than 2 hours. In my opinion Inova has taken this light a big step in the wrong direction."

So twice as bright at 16ish Lumens at 1/4 the runtime. Not a good move. My Triton P1 is old tech and has both better output and runtime. For $0.50 more, Inova could have used a good old RXOH and done better or the new Rebel. Too bad. The Gen 2 was bulletproof and a great emergency light.

Also, while we might not all be marketing experts, it makes sense to me to make the best product possible if the cost is no or little higher.That was old American pride in manufacturing... 

Kevin


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## Delta (May 10, 2007)

kevinm said:


> From Flashlightreviews.com:
> 
> "Danger, Will Robinson! Danger! Inova has come out with yet another version of the X1! They have gotten rid of the Nichia LED and replaced it with a Luxeon LXCL-PWT3, similar to this one. This change results in about twice the brightness, but our eyes work on a logrithmic scale, so a doubling of brightness isn't perceived as much of a change. The cost of this extra brightness is staggering. The light now has only about 20% of the runtime of the Nichia version! It now has a listed runtime of less than 2 hours. In my opinion Inova has taken this light a big step in the wrong direction."
> 
> ...




Couldn't have said it better myself!


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## defloyd77 (May 10, 2007)

Hmm, I was considering getting a gen 3, but after seeing those runtimes, forget that. Would it be safe to assume that there's a new X1 stores like target would put the gen 2's on clearance?


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## bondr006 (May 10, 2007)

defloyd77 said:


> Hmm, I was considering getting a gen 3, but after seeing those runtimes, forget that. Would it be safe to assume that there's a new X1 stores like target would put the gen 2's on clearance?



The two Targets I have been to here don't have any of the Gen 2 left. They are only displaying the Gen 3.


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## defloyd77 (May 10, 2007)

The one by me (Janesville, Wisconsin) had 6 titanium and 2 black gen 2, I'm just thinking if I should dare wait and see if they stay around long enough to go on clearance.


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## parnass (May 10, 2007)

defloyd77 said:


> The one by me (Janesville, Wisconsin) had 6 titanium and 2 black gen 2, I'm just thinking if I should dare wait and see if they stay around long enough to go on clearance.



If both the gen 2 and gen 3 Inova X1s have the same SKU, I doubt the gen 2 will go on clearance sale.

I suspect the reason Inova keeps the model names (e.g., X1, XO3) the same while they make major changes in the lights is to make it easy for retailers.


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## Flying Turtle (May 10, 2007)

I don't remember the 1st Gen. lights ever going on sale, at least at Target, around here. Even saw one of those originals a few months back hanging up there with the Gen. 2 lights.

Geoff


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## greenlight (May 10, 2007)

parnass said:


> I suspect the reason Inova keeps the model names (e.g., X1, XO3) the same while they make major changes in the lights is to make it easy for retailers.



:huh2:


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## bondr006 (May 10, 2007)

Flying Turtle said:


> I don't remember the 1st Gen. lights ever going on sale, at least at Target, around here. Even saw one of those originals a few months back hanging up there with the Gen. 2 lights.
> 
> Geoff



Hey neighbor. I was just at the Target over there in Apex this morning and all the X1's are gone. Yesterday there were 3 Titanium and 2 Black X1's. And just because it's hard for me to pass up a light, I picked up a 3AA, 3 watt Dorcy. Nice little light. I live up on the corner of High House and 55. I used to live over there in Apex on Olive Chapel Rd.


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## Illum (May 10, 2007)

how odd...
why bother with the newer leds when enlarging the stock V2 reflector and caste a luxeon/cree emitter in will do it? besides...using the new types initially made for running 350mA to 1000mA makes it grossly underdriven by a single AA cell. 

from what it sounds like, its not putting out the same light as a 1 watt, inflated values [typical of inova], and significantly shorter battery life?

Im going to pick up all the last V2s I can find, I love em


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## Flying Turtle (May 10, 2007)

"Hey neighbor. I was just at the Target over there in Apex this morning and all the X1's are gone." 

Howdy Rob. If you're looking for some Gen. 2 X1's the Crossroads Target had a few yesterday. I live about a half mile from Olive Chapel Rd, just off 64. Lived in Cary for about 25 years before that. A belated welcome to CPF.

Geoff


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## MattK (May 10, 2007)

cave dave - I don't have an integrating spehere, nor do most manufacturers, so lumens at the emitter is a totally acceptable standard and a common practice. You can ask for L out the front but most Mfr.s don't even have that data to give you. As a matter of fact I can think of only 1 Mfr. who does give you that data basically and it's still meaningless given the L output variation within a batch of emitters and the different results one would get from different brands/sized of integrating speres.

As I've explained MANY times on this forum NUWAI is NOT a manfufacturer - they are a trade company and yes, the light I linked comes from the SAME factory as the Nuwai but uses a different emitter that TerraLUX specified - a high bin sort Rigel IIRC.

Quality on the TerraLUX seems to be quite good, warranty is at least 1 year - I'll have to dbl check if it is longer. I'd guesstimate lumens out the front at 25+ - it's noticeably brighter than the Gen 3 X1.

A AAA battery cannot effectively drive a Cree at high enough currents to have a great advantage so what would be the point? The HOT emitter for a light like this will eventaully be the Rebel - but that emitter won't be commerically avaialble for another month at least.


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## LED_Thrift (May 10, 2007)

MattK said:


> ...A AAA battery cannot effectively drive a Cree at high enough currents to have a great advantage so what would be the point? The HOT emitter for a light like this will eventaully be the Rebel - but that emitter won't be commerically avaialble for another month at least.


 
Matt - will the Rebel be 'hot' because it can be very bright for an AAA light or because it is very efficient with the limited amount of power an AAA battery can provide?


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## bondr006 (May 10, 2007)

Does anyone here know where you can find Inova T1's locally? Specifically in the Raleigh, NC area. I have been looking and searching to no avail. X series are easy to find, but the T series seems to be non-existent except online. Thanks.


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## parnass (May 10, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> Does anyone here know where you can find Inova T1's locally? Specifically in the Raleigh, NC area. I have been looking and searching to no avail. X series are easy to find, but the T series seems to be non-existent except online. Thanks.



Look in tool stores in your area -- not home center stores -- tool stores. Berland's House of Tools, a local tool store in Illinois, sells the Inova T series lights. The web dealer prices are usually lower.

Another place to check is police and public safety supply stores. Look in the phone book or ask a police officer where he shops.


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## OLD_BJC (May 10, 2007)

After viewing this:


http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2001953&postcount=12

I surmise the size disparity, in the X1 Gen3, between the Luxeon Portable PWT3 emitter and the opening in the base of the reflector; combined with the size difference of the Luxeon Portable PWT3 emitter (2.0mm X 1.6mm) and the Luxeon Rebel (4.5mm X 3.0mm) seems to portend an imminent upgrade, based on availability of the Rebel, to a much better X1 Gen4.


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## Martini (May 10, 2007)

OLD_BJC said:


> I surmise the size disparity, in the X1 Gen3, between the Luxeon Portable PWT3 emitter and the opening in the base of the reflector; combined with the size difference of the Luxeon Portable PWT3 emitter (2.0mm X 1.6mm) and the Luxeon Rebel (4.5mm X 3.0mm) seems to portend an imminent upgrade, based on availability of the Rebel, to a much better X1 Gen4.


Are you suggesting that Inova designed the Gen 3 to use the Rebel, but forced the PWT3 in as a stopgap until the Rebel is available in production quantities? I suppose it would make sense if the wanted to release all of their 2007 products at the same time, but it doesn't appear that all of the other lights are ready, either. The 2W rating does fit the Rebel better. In doubt Inova would actually do this, but at the same time I really hope that is the plan. I would buy a Rebel-powered X1 in a heartbeat.


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## OLD_BJC (May 10, 2007)

Martini said:


> Are you suggesting that Inova designed the Gen 3 to use the Rebel, but forced the PWT3 in as a stopgap until the Rebel is available in production quantities? I suppose it would make sense if the wanted to release all of their 2007 products at the same time, but it doesn't appear that all of the other lights are ready, either. The 2W rating does fit the Rebel better. In doubt Inova would actually do this, but at the same time I really hope that is the plan. I would buy a Rebel-powered X1 in a heartbeat.




One can only hope! The X1 Gen3 seems pointless unless you use it with a NiMH battery.


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## MattK (May 10, 2007)

I think the rebel will be hot for small lights because it brings the efficiencies of a Cree to an extremely small footprint. I don't think we'll be seeing 750mah/3W rebel applications so much as 150-350mah applications on smaller lights - a rebel lit flashlight could probably get 3+ hours at 40-50 lumens from a single AA battery.


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## bondr006 (May 10, 2007)

MattK said:


> I think the rebel will be hot for small lights because it brings the efficiencies of a Cree to an extremely small footprint. I don't think we'll be seeing 750mah/3W rebel applications so much as 150-350mah applications on smaller lights - *a rebel lit flashlight could probably get 3+ hours at 40-50 lumens from a single AA battery*.



Which would be the perfect X1 for me. I really hope this is in their plans....


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## MattK (May 10, 2007)

Inova's plans? I have no idea.

Now I do know of another mfr who may be building a light like that soon....


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## bondr006 (May 10, 2007)

MattK said:


> Inova's plans? I have no idea.
> 
> Now I do know of another mfr who may be building a light like that soon....



OK...if I must...Well???


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## kevinm (May 10, 2007)

Okay, I broke down and picked an X1 gen 3 at Target. There were three; two with low output and one with good output. I got that one. It puts out as much light (based on the readings obtained by placing the light directly against the receptor of my luxmeter.) as my Triton P1, an RXOH light with fair output. The runtime from Chev's post is the same. I wonder if they got a good sample from Lumileds and assumed that all the LED's would be the same.

So , if you get a good one, it's a respectable light! I still prefer the second generation.

How do you open this one? The ring at the top unscrews easily... If the reflector were polished, this would be much nicer.

Kevin


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## lumenal (May 10, 2007)

I own each version of the X1, having picked up the latest at Target a couple days ago.

This version is my favorite.

There were three gen.3 on the rack. Two had a pink tint with so-so output, and the third was very white with a noticable increase of output compared to the other 2. I bought the white one. (Thats whats nice about being able to try it at Target).

The knurling on the tail-switch is a little more aggressive, with a slightly larger pattern. (I only noticed this while comparing the different versions at home).

There is also a rougher type micro-finish which allows much easier momentary use.

And the threading seems smoother while easily twisting the tail-switch one-handed for constant on. The beam is very smooth. Not too bright, so as not to sear night-adapted vision.

I'll be using Ni-MH or lithiums with this light, so 3-4 hours is OK with me. If I need longer runtime, I've got both of the other versions.

I went back to Target today, made the mandatory stop at the flashlight aisle, and saw that the other new X1s were already gone. Only 4 gen.2s were left. Somebody knows something.:naughty:


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## parnass (May 10, 2007)

How is the tint on the Inova X1 3rd generation? Sounds like it may be another "lottery" situation.

My 2nd generation X1s were too blue and I want a *whiter* light.


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## lumenal (May 11, 2007)

parnass said:


> How is the tint on the Inova X1 3rd generation? Sounds like it may be another "lottery" situation.
> 
> My 2nd generation X1s were too blue and I want a *whiter* light.


 
The "lux lottery" is still alive and well with this new, gen.3 X1.

I read earlier in this thread of somebody getting a green tinted new X1.

Two out of the three I compared at Target had a pink tint.

The third one was very *white, *with substantially higher output than the other two. I bought this one.


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## kevinm (May 11, 2007)

After playing with it for a while, mine is going back to Target, unless someone wants to give me $23 for it. The tint is very white and the output is the same as my Triton P1. 

Kevin


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## bondr006 (May 11, 2007)

Flying Turtle said:


> "Hey neighbor. I was just at the Target over there in Apex this morning and all the X1's are gone."
> 
> Howdy Rob. If you're looking for some Gen. 2 X1's the Crossroads Target had a few yesterday. I live about a half mile from Olive Chapel Rd, just off 64. Lived in Cary for about 25 years before that. A belated welcome to CPF.
> 
> Geoff



Hey Geoff,

I was just over to the Crossroads Target and they had 5 Titanium X1's and 2 Black X1's. I did not have a real lot of time to play with them, but will be going back over this afternoon. Looks like they can come out of the package, which I will do to compare them all and get the best one. I have one black one already which has grown on me quite a bit, so I am going to get another one and give one of them to my wife to put in her purse. She really doesn't care about lights, so I will obviously get the one with the best beam. Now my 4 year old son is a different story. He just wants all my lights.

Maybe we could get together sometime Geoff. My neighbor across the street is also a member of CPF and we have shown off our light collections to each other. He has a Fenix Cree light which I don't have yet, but my JetBeam C-LE is on it's way. I am also a laser enthusiast. I have 7 high powered hand held lasers from Wicked Lasers which I also have a lot of fun with. Let me know if you are interested in getting together sometime.


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## Flying Turtle (May 11, 2007)

I'm glad Crossroads Target still had a few X1's left for you. I was tempted, but I've already got one, and try to limit myself to one of any light. I've been mostly successful with that tactic.

Sounds like a plan to get together sometime. I've pretty much given up getting my wife or son interested in lights. I think they humor me by not laughing. Send me a PM and I'll bag up my menagerie for showing off.

Geoff


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## bondr006 (May 11, 2007)

kavvika said:


> Can anyone take a comparison beamshot between the 2nd gen. X1 and the 3rd gen. X1? I'd like to see if it puts out enough light to warrent the decrease in runtime.



Here it is..Gen3 on the left and Gen2 on the right. Shot at 1 meter.


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## cratz2 (May 11, 2007)

I'll try to do some beamshots in the next couple of days. I bought one black Gen 3 and one titanium Gen 3. The black one was the brightest at the first store and the titanium was the greenest one because of the non-white tints, I prefer greens or yellows.

bondr006, does that camera have manual settings? Both of my Gen 3s are obviously brighter than my Gen 2s. Those pics make them look about the same brightness which makes me wonder if the camers is trying to compensate for the difference in brightness.


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## cratz2 (May 11, 2007)

MattK said:


> Some of you may be interested in this new TerraLUX light - 1 AAA, brighter than the Gen 3 X1 and with some cool accessories - I have no idea on runtime yet so don't even ask.
> 
> LINK



The 0.5W version of that light is one of my most used lights. I do a bit of biking and when I'm on a road bike, I prefer to have as little gear on hand as possible. The Nuwai 0.5W is the one I take because I keep it clipped to my hat and literally forget it is there sometimes. A brighter version of it, as long as it managed at least an hour runtime, would be about my ideal small beater light.


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## bondr006 (May 11, 2007)

cratz2 said:


> I'll try to do some beamshots in the next couple of days. I bought one black Gen 3 and one titanium Gen 3. The black one was the brightest at the first store and the titanium was the greenest one because of the non-white tints, I prefer greens or yellows.
> 
> bondr006, does that camera have manual settings? Both of my Gen 3s are obviously brighter than my Gen 2s. Those pics make them look about the same brightness which makes me wonder if the camers is trying to compensate for the difference in brightness.



Those are shot set on manual. Both are shot at the same distance, in the same lighting conditions, at the same manual settings. f5.6 @ 6th second. Both at 1 meter.


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## bondr006 (May 11, 2007)

At 1 meter they look about the same brightness to me. The Gen3 has better flood and throws much better than the Gen2. At about 10 feet the Gen3 is much brighter than the Gen2.


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## cratz2 (May 11, 2007)

Here's something else to throw out there, I just did some DMM measurements of current pull from the battery (ie, these measurements are NOT what the LED sees but what the driver pulls from the cell) on my two Gen 3 X1s and here is what I found:

Titanium Black 
680mA	650mA on Alkaline cell measuring 1.59V	
790mA	700mA on Lithium cell measuring 1.75V 
690mA	620mA on NiMH cell measuring 1.36v 
1990mA	1650mA	on 14500 Cell measuring 4.04v 

Compare this to the Gen 2 light:
Titanium Black 
230mA 200mA on Alkaline cell
240mA 210mA on Lithium cell
120mA 120mA on NiMH cell
430mA on 14500 cell

Did I take crazy pills, or is this new LED radically ineffecient?






Also, while there is a slight variation of current pull from two different Gen 2 lights, there seems to be a pretty big variation between the two different Gen 3 lights. The tints are quite a bit different, but one doesn't really look radically brighter than the other one.

I'll keep them, but I'm starting to like the Gen 3 X1 less and less. It's a solid product and as I've said, I like the beam it throws... its sort of like the hotspot is tiny... not really even a hotspot, but more like one teensy area is brighter than the rest, but the spillbeam is very nice. If this were the only >$2 light I'd ever owned, I'd likely be quite happy with it but other than the improved tint over the Gen 2, it's not a very attractive light at all. 

It's sort of like deciding between two cars with identical internal sizing, external sizing and looks. But one car gets 40 miles per gallon and does 0-60 in 8 seconds, and the other one gets 12 miles per gallon and does 0-60 in 7.5 seconds. Just doesn't seem like much of a trade-off.

(Edited for spelling and clarification.)


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## skalomax (May 11, 2007)

Interesting...


Let's see what else we discover


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## popeye (May 12, 2007)

I too was very unimpressed by the X1 .it is not at all bright and has a green tint to it. I did a comparison with my L2d on LOW and it is two to three times brighter than X1. I think I may send back or chuck it in the wifes car. not happy at all. On the other hand i bought a bolt 2AA and am very happy with it. go figure!!!!


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## Chusco411 (May 12, 2007)

I would love to know more about this light that Matt was talking about that will use the Luxeon Rebel.


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## jthomson111 (May 12, 2007)

I did some measurements with DMM on a gen3 and a gen2.

gen2
205mA 200mA on Alkaline cell measuring 1.59V
This is about the same as cratz2 but my gen3 was only about 210mA-215mA.

On the self there were 3 gen3 x1's. I compared them all and chose the whitest one. The other 2 were very green but they all apeared to have the same brightness.


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## Cydonia (May 12, 2007)

Thanks for that cratz2... to me it is just another nail in the coffin for this 3.0 version of the X1. Ordered 3 of the old Generation 2.0 X1’s from batteryjunction the other day…while they are still around in abundance… V.2.0 may well turn out to be the *last* great single 5mm LED light… a bit dramatic sounding I know, but… that’s the way it’s looking right now. This new V.3.0 X1 is so inefficient… wonder where the juice is going… into heat waste I suspect... this 3.0 must get warm after a while.


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## cratz2 (May 12, 2007)

I ran both of my X1 v3.0s for two hours last night on NiMH cells... just to sorta break the LED in a bit. They get slightly warm, but nothing even remotely close to what I would call hot. I just think the LED is very ineffecient.

Also, I'm 99% certain that the X1 v3.0 and the Bolt 2xAAA lights use the same boost circuit so that means it needs to allow for anything from about .8V up to about 3.4V... That may reduce the effeciency of the circuit.

We were recently in St Louis and I stopped by two Target stores while there - the Mid River mall and some store a few miles east of that, but still in St Charles. That 'other' store actually had all three versions of the black X1... A single Gen 1 with the optic, two or thee of the reflectored ones with the Nichia CS and three of the new '2 watt' ones. It's kinda funny to think that Inova keeps building new versions the X1 and we have to assume Target is the largest reseller of the X1, yet they still seem to have some that were made over a year ago.


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## Delta (May 12, 2007)

I was at Target today looking for the semi-gloss finish RR AA1W lights, since mine is a flat black one (Grr!) and I FINALLY saw the new X1's. There were three and I tested each. The first one had this sick-green tint that looked simply horrific. The other two were dull/dim blue tinted. Utterly unimpressive. Glad everyone else tested them before me. And I'm a big fan of Inova and I wouldn't want this light.

Hopefully they'll do a ver. 3.5 and replace that crap LED.


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## popeye (May 13, 2007)

I went to my local target store yesterday and they have the X1 gen2's but did not get one after my dissapointment with the gen3 but bought the river rock 1AA and was very impressed by it, a nice little light for $22


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## Apollo (May 13, 2007)

I bought one of the new Gen 3 X1's yesterday along with the 1watt 1AA River Rock as well. I love the X1's immaculate fit and finish, but the output is nothing to write home about. I was more impressed with the River Rock instead. Nice output for a $22 light, indeed! 

As for the Gen 3 Inova X1, what can I say? I like it and at the same time I'm disappointed with it. It just seems incomplete somehow. The sad thing is that the X1 has the potential to be the cat's a$$ in small pocket-sized flashlights if only Inova would just get it right!


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## Martini (May 13, 2007)

I know CPF has nowhere near the same influence over Inova that we do over the smaller outfits like Fenix and Lumapower - we may have no meaningful influence at all - but maybe we, with the help of some of our resident retailers, could petition Inova to do a sprint run of X1s with better emitters. Would you pay $25 for the X1 if it came with a Rebel? If they'd just turn the current down a bit, we could have, say, 12 lumens for around 20 hours. I'd be all over it.

Just hoping someone optimistic can convince me that it's possible.


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## Chusco411 (May 14, 2007)

I would be all over a X1 with a Rebel, even if it cost 25 bucks. It would be my ideal carry light, but I personally would prefer 40-50 lumens at about three hour run time. That is what Matt said should be possible with the Rebel. Heck I would be happy with 20-30 lumens and three hour runtime.


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## Cydonia (May 14, 2007)

I'd be all over an X1 with Cree for $50. I'd be all over a T1, T2, T3, T5 with Cree for $150. Oh well. Inova won't upgrade their T line till 2009 right I suspect.


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## Chusco411 (May 15, 2007)

Martini

I think that maybe we should start a thread to see how much intrest there would be in getting a X1 with a Rebel. Maybe if everyone intrested could post with the number that they would purchase the we might have some numbers to take to Inova. I am not saying that it would work but we will never know unless we give it a shot. Personally I am good for 1 maybe 2 at a price range of 25-30 bucks. Just a drop in the bucket but it is a start.


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## defloyd77 (May 15, 2007)

Hmmm, maybe if a bunch of people keep on e-mailing Inova about the suckiness of the new X1 and that a lot of people would refuse to buy an esentially degraded light that was once known for it's great runtime, maybe some petitions and what not, Inova could be persuaded by it's loyal customers and new customers that want to buy a great product like the gen 2 but will be disappointed to find that they were replaced by the ludicrous third gen (like myself). Or maybe I'm just in some fantasy land, I dunno.


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## woodrow (May 15, 2007)

I found the Gen 3's at target today. Also found a package that I could actually (carefully) open and take the light out. Great small size. Seems to be well made, and only $20. Then I turned it on.... I carefully put it back in the package. I usually get tempted by well made $20 lights, but this one was not quite bright enought to do that.

Thinking back about today, I wondered why do I (we at cpf) go into Target all the time looking at lights. Do we expect them to have the new Cree Surefire L5's or LP MRV's? No, they have the same Dorcy's, RiverRocks, Inovas and Maglights they always have had. I think it makes us feel superior (at least I sometimes feel that way) and glad we have access to knowledge here that the general public does not even know about. 

So, will I be buying the new Inova X1? Of course not. Will the genersl public love it. Most likely. To each his own.


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## Robocop (May 15, 2007)

I have not read all of this thread however most of it so I may have missed this if it were covered already........Has anyone tried the freeze method of removing the internals of the new Inova? This light is simply a beautiful host for a well done emitter swap and if done correctly by freezing you will have no signs of damage.

I have not seen one in person however I am curious as to how Inova designed the internals as well as the reflector. I personally have always loved the Inova brand however have been dissapointed a few times but simply made it what I wanted with an emitter swap.....anyone seen the insides yet or can comment on the modding potential of this new version?


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## RebelXTNC (May 15, 2007)

My Target still doesn't have the Gen3, but I did buy another Gen2 (or as I will explain, I call it a Gen2.5).
I have an earlier Gen2 in titanium finish that has a beautiful floody beam. Two months ago I wanted a black finish and ordered one online. It had a very ringy beam and was somewhat dull. I could see the LED was mounted much further forward than normal but I thought it was just an oddball.
I purchased another black finish yesterday at Target. Looking carefully at LED depth in the reflector and judging the brightness and color of the two they had.
This one seemed normal in the store, but later testing in the dark revealed that it too is substantially different than my earlier titanium Gen2, but not unacceptably bad like the first black one I bought.
So was my first Gen2 that I like so much the oddball or did they really change to a different LED for a Gen2.5 and that doesn't get mentioned much? Or did I just have bad luck with two black finish lights that came from different sources?
I'll keep looking for the Gen3 to evaluate, but I don't think I'll be buying one.


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## dim (May 15, 2007)

RebelXTNC said:


> So was my first Gen2 that I like so much the oddball or did they really change to a different LED for a Gen2.5 and that doesn't get mentioned much? Or did I just have bad luck with two black finish lights that came from different sources?


Inova X1 variations and consistency.

73
dim


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## Energie (May 16, 2007)

I have ordered the Gen2 und Gen3 at Battery Junction to do some tests.
Good service and very fast shipping to Germany. Thanks Matt!!

And about the lights?
Nice packing.


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## MattK (May 16, 2007)

My pleasure - thanks again!


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## Energie (May 16, 2007)

Test results:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/165203
.
.


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## TORCH_BOY (May 17, 2007)

I still prefer the Generation one Inova X1


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## Chusco411 (May 24, 2007)

Matt, is there any chance that you could post side by side beamshots of the Gen 3 X1 and the TerraLUX LightStar? I would really appreciate it and I hope others would also. Thank you.


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## Chusco411 (May 24, 2007)

Anyone know if the Gen 3 is available at Target in Utah and if so which one? I really would like to get a first hand look before I do any ordering.


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## Robocop (May 24, 2007)

My local Target had 3 on the shelf and I compared all three deciding on taking the one with the most white to the tint.....well sad to say when I got it home I was able to truly sample it and was shocked at how sickly green the tint was....all this after I compared it to the others and can only imagine how bad the other two samples would have been.

Yes it is bitter sweet as the fit and finish is truly very well done however thus far the emitters have horrible tint in my opinion. I am still wondering how hard it would be to swap out the emitter however I did not attempt to open my sample as I quickly returned it to the store......I just could not deal with the sickly green tint but again may be a little spoiled as my personal tastes lean more towards the cool blue-white tint.

So has anyone opened one of these new style yet?....I am curious as to how Inova made the internals and if it would be worth it to maybe attempt a mod.


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## sniper (Jun 5, 2007)

MattK said:


> The X1 isn't made to be the brightest, never has been. It's always been a fairly long running ultra high quality secondary light. If you're looking for 1x AA and BRIGHT buy a LumaPower or a Fenix.




My X1 just died. I've had it about a year, using it for edc. Fantastic run time, good brightness. 
What is the run time of the new Gen 3? Since Flashlightreviews.com isn't very active any more, that sort of stuff seems to be less mentioned. I'm going to test the Inova warranty service. I'll probably get a Gen 3 as replacement. Will I be disappointed?


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## chevrofreak (Jun 5, 2007)

sniper said:


> My X1 just died. I've had it about a year, using it for edc. Fantastic run time, good brightness.
> What is the run time of the new Gen 3? Since Flashlightreviews.com isn't very active any more, that sort of stuff seems to be less mentioned. I'm going to test the Inova warranty service. I'll probably get a Gen 3 as replacement. Will I be disappointed?










runtime vs output is not impressive


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## pilou (Jun 5, 2007)

It is really disheartening to see that most people find the beam of the v3 to be only barely brighter than for the v2.


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## nine (Jun 5, 2007)

Anyone else thinking of a Rebel mod? IMO, even if Inova sold an empty body for $20 it would be worth it as a great host. My immediate concern is if this polished reflector is going to make things easier or harder to get a decent beam.


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## greenlight (Jun 5, 2007)

Can you post the comparison graphs for the other x1s?


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## Chusco411 (Jun 6, 2007)

I called my local Target (30 miles away) and they have the gen 3 in and they have gen 2 still on the shelves. Finally I will be able compare the two side by side and hopefully be able to make my decision. Now if only Target would shut off all the lights in the store so that I could really compare. I won't be able to get there until Saturday but I will post my personal findings when I get back. I really wish I knew if running lithium primaries could increase initial brightness.


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## parnass (Jun 6, 2007)

Chusco411 said:


> ... Now if only Target would shut off all the lights in the store so that I could really compare. ....



It is easier to compare flashlights in the store if you bring along a sheet of white paper and a flashlight with a tint you like. You use that flashlight as a baseline for comparison.


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## Chusco411 (Jun 6, 2007)

parnass 
Thanks for the tip I will definitely do that. I also believe that you can get the X1 out of the packaging without too much trouble, which should make things easier.


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## UnknownVT (Jun 6, 2007)

chevrofreak said:


> runtime vs output is not impressive


 
I never used to like the Inova X1 - the original one with the Spot beam.

Then version 2 came out with reflector and it just seemed to be an "also-ran" - especially since there were lots of 1x AA lights by then using 1 to 3 watt Luxeons.

However that made me "appreciate" the original Spot beam X1 a bit more for its specialist use.

Fortunately for me I got a later version 1 Spot white X1 (supected Nichia CS) from a good trade - and although I still think it's kind of "specialist" and for me pretty limited application - it still occupies a space in my collection.

The version 3 X1 seems very disappointing in its efficiency - battery runtime - kind of negates the whole point of using a 5mm LED.

Anyway see why I started to like the version 1 Spot Inova X1 - please click on -

Inova X1 Spot - White 

Actually for a more usable spot light - the current "gen 4" Dorcy 1AAA probably is the way to go - its spot is substantially wider than the original X1 Spot - and in the current gen 4 about as bright over its entire spot as the later (Nichia CS version) Spot X1.....

A Classic Revisited - Dorcy 1AAA

starting from Post #*57* on the newer gen 4 
(and review in Post #*77* - see also - a New Dorcy 1AAA )

Direct comparison of the Spot X1 with a gen4 Dorcy 1AAA (Doug S stage 2 mod) in Post #*137*

also - Dorcy 1AAA gen4 - Doug S Stage 2 Mod


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## copierguy_mobile (Jun 6, 2007)

I bought a 3rd gen X1 just the other day and it has quickly become a favorite of mine.

I do a lot of looking inside dark copier/printers and computers, I don't need an uber bright light, nor do I need it to throw to the far side of the building. 

It's only on for 30-45 seconds at a time and even if it only runs 2 hours on a battery thats 160 uses or 16 days at 10 uses a day. from a single AA! no runtime issue for me.

It's brighter, smaller and better built than the minimag I caried for years and has the advantage of running on a single AA without needing replacement bulbs.

I think Inova will sell truck loads of them to people like me.


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## vector_joe (Jun 6, 2007)

copierguy_mobile said:


> I bought a 3rd gen X1 just the other day and it has quickly become a favorite of mine.
> 
> I do a lot of looking inside dark copier/printers and computers, I don't need an uber bright light, nor do I need it to throw to the far side of the building.
> 
> ...



If you're happy with it then good for you. [seriously]

The problem lies in the fact that if you look at it in the context of what has come before, it seems like a step backward. I have a generation 2 and I like it, but I haven't picked up a gen3 because of the reviews here. Typically if you are going to come out with a new version of a product, it should do something better than what came before. It doesn't seem like it to me in this case.


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## Martini (Jun 6, 2007)

vector_joe said:


> The problem lies in the fact that if you look at it in the context of what has come before, it seems like a step backward. I have a generation 2 and I like it, but I haven't picked up a gen3 because of the reviews here. Typically if you are going to come out with a new version of a product, it should do something better than what came before. It doesn't seem like it to me in this case.


Exactly. I think most of us were hoping for an improved X1 with _better_ efficiency than before. What we got was an LED light with incan efficiency. It's sort of the Windows Vista of the flashlight world.


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## pilou (Jun 6, 2007)

I do wonder though whether the naked eye brightness comparisons are misleading or tainted by high expectations. After all, it seems like you need to nearly double the output to easily notice increased brightness. But I assume that in dark environments, the difference is probably more noticeable.

Perhaps I will give one a shot, just to see for myself.

It would be nice if Quickbeam of flashlightreviews ever gets a chance to test all the new Inovas that just came out.


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## Flying Turtle (Jun 6, 2007)

I've compared my 2nd Gen. to a friend's 3rd Gen. The new one is at least twice as bright and the beam has a nice white tint. 

Geoff


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## yaesumofo (Jun 6, 2007)

I still love my first gen X1 mini spot. IMHO they should have stuck with that design and maybe gone with a brighter emitter insted of making the light the cheap crappy light it has become.
X1 first GEN Forrever!!

BTW the reson they are using emitters with short lifetimes is so they can sell you a new flashlight every 2000 hours. It really makes more business sence to work that way. What good is it to a compant to sell you a light that will last a lifetime? None. So they are building in an end time.
It makes for good business when you have repeate customers. Sort of like MAG and it's bulb business. They keep you comming back for more.
Jusr like dope for an addict.


Yaesumofo


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## Chusco411 (Jun 6, 2007)

I was under the impression that Inova lights came with a lifetime warranty. So I don't think that there are trying to make their lights wear out faster so that they have to then replace them sooner. That is just my understanding and I could be very wrong.


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## Burgess (Jun 7, 2007)

The fact that Inova was so *incredibly* reluctant

to disclose which specific model of LED they were using in this light, tells me:


they were *embarrassed* to tell us


- or -


they were *ashamed* to tell us



Either way, i believe that now we know WHY, don't we !





In my effort to keep my post on a *positive note*,
i'll add this statement:

Hey Inova, i really LOVE my X1, generation 2.
(purchased 5/13/2006 from BrightGuy)

Plenty useful for many situations, and LOTS of great battery life (on plain ol' alkalines!).

*Not happy* with the subtle changes which became version 2.5,

and certainly consider your version 3 to be a big step BACKWARDS !

The X1 can be a *star player* in your line-up, if you don't lose sight of the factors which make it great !

We *want* to buy from you. Please make the products that we *want*, not simply what you *think* we want.

Thanks for listening.


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## ringzero (Jun 7, 2007)

Burgess said:


> Hey Inova, i really LOVE my X1, generation 2. (purchased 5/13/2006 from BrightGuy)...and certainly consider your version 3 to be a big step BACKWARDS...Thanks for listening.



+1

I love my reflectored X1. A very rugged, reliable, efficient, highly useful little light with great build quality. This new version is a giant step backward for Inova.

If Inova had used a decent emitter in ver3 - say a Nichia Rigel 0.5W - they could have had the same output with three to four times the runtime!

I can understand them not wanting to use a Cree in an economy light, but Nichia Rigels are cheap, plentiful, and fairly efficient.

What were they thinking when they designed this light?

.


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## pilou (Jun 7, 2007)

Chusco411 said:


> I was under the impression that Inova lights came with a lifetime warranty. So I don't think that there are trying to make their lights wear out faster so that they have to then replace them sooner. That is just my understanding and I could be very wrong.



I am pretty sure you are right. Unlike Mag, I think they cover they LEDs as well.


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## pilou (Jun 7, 2007)

Flying Turtle said:


> I've compared my 2nd Gen. to a friend's 3rd Gen. The new one is at least twice as bright and the beam has a nice white tint.
> 
> Geoff




Thanks for the straightforward observation!


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## pilou (Jun 7, 2007)

Burgess said:


> The fact that Inova was so *incredibly* reluctant
> 
> to disclose which specific model of LED they were using in this light, tells me:
> 
> ...





-or- they want to leave themselves room to do running changes with the LED.

Enough people have stated that the v3 is noticeably brighter than the v2 to convince me that it is. Buying one should not be a waste of money. It seems like Inova could have done better, and chances are they will stealthily upgrade the LED at some point, but it seems like it is still a decent light to purchase now.


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## greenlight (Jun 7, 2007)

Maybe they'll wise up.


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## edc3 (Jun 7, 2007)

I was in my local Fry's the other day and saw some X1's on the shelf. They were all Gen 2 and based on what I've read here I decided to buy one rather than waiting to get a Gen 3. I like it a lot. For me it's a very good light for reading and it doesn't blind me if I get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom or see why our crazy cats are making so much noise. I have two Inova lights. Neither are particularly bright, but I really like the quality, the form factor and battery life. I can't imagine why they would make a next generation light that is essentially a step backwards from the previous one.


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## Chusco411 (Jun 7, 2007)

I sure hope that they do a running change on the LED. I would love to see the X1 with a Rebel. Not that the current LED is going to keep me from buying one now. But who knows how many I would buy if they came out with a Rebel version.


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## Chusco411 (Jun 11, 2007)

Well I made it to Target, and they had two of the Gen 3 in black on the shelf, along with a couple of titanium Gen 2. I carefully opend the packages and compared the beans on my sheet of white paper. Both had very nice white beams and were noticable brighter than the Gen 2's that where there. Just to make sure I tried them with some brand new alkaline cells that I had brought in with me. I felt that the difference was noticable enough to warrant purchase. So I picked up both of them (my brother wanted one too) and picked up and X5 for my Dad for Fathers day. After getting them home and having a chance to play with them I am happy with my purchase. I bought lithium cells but I may just leave the original alkaline in to see how it does, for a while. I realize that these might not be the most brightest or the most efficent lights out there, but I love the size because it works in the side of my leatherman case. Also they have the kind of switch that I wanted. I am also glad that it is made by a company with a good reputation. IMHO I would rather spend my money on a light that will function the way I want it to and be small enough that I will not have any troubel carrying it everyday. Espically if it is reliable. There is a saying in guns a .22 in the hand is better than a .45 in the truck. I think that this applies to lights to. However to each his own and I am sure that this light is not for everyone, guess that is why there are so many options on the market.


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## nine (Jun 11, 2007)

what do you think of the beam pattern of your gen3? Is it just like your gen2 only brighter?


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## Chusco411 (Jun 11, 2007)

I don't actually have a gen 2 however from what I could see the pictures on page 6 show a very good representation of what I saw at the store. There are also some very good comments about the beam on this same page. I hope that this helps. But for what it is worth I like it a lot and it seems very useful.


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## parnass (Jul 20, 2007)

I am a major Inova fan and own several Inova lights, but the newest 3rd generation (2 watt) Inova X1 is a disappointment. I compared it to my 2nd generation X1, then promptly returned it.

The newest X1 has beam characteristics almost identical to the Victorinox (Inova) 2AAA LED light. It is much whiter, but only slightly brighter than the bluish tint 2nd generation X1.

The 2nd generation X1 has a considerably wider spill angle than its newer version.

The reason I returned the 3rd generation (2 watt) X1 is due its high current consumption, hence short battery life. It draws a whopping 670 mA from an alkaline battery versus 212 mA used by my 2nd generation X1.

The new X1 grew warm after only a minute or two of continuous use from an alkaline battery. 

My 3rd generation X1 didn't work well when fed with a NiMH cell. A fully charged 2500 mAH Powerizer NiMH battery plummeted to 1.07 volts after 8 minutes of use, causing the X1 to grow noticeably dim.


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## ltiu (Jul 20, 2007)

I agree, I am disappointed by the 3rd gen X1. My first one started blinking after about 5 minutes into a new alkaline. Promptly exchanged it for my second one which worked better but is just dim compared to my other 1AA light such as the RR 1AA 1watt or the DX MTE 1AA SSC P4.


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## The Shadow (Jul 20, 2007)

I posted the following in another thread (https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/168462), but I think this information probably belongs here. I received a 3rd gen X1 as a replacement for a 2nd gen X1. I like it. Here are my observations:

-----
Fit and Finish - First of all, it feels different. The finish seems courser. It's not bad, just different. The battery seems to rattle around slightly when the light is off. The gen 2 X1 never did that. Again, not bad, just different.

Output - Brighter than the gen 2. I wish I had another gen 2 to compare it with. It seems to have a brighter and tighter hotspot, rectangular in shape, flaring out a little at the corners. It's only noticeable if you're white wall hunting. Color was good, not bluish like the gen 2.

Runtime - Gave it a fresh cell and started the clock. At 1 hour, 40 minutes, the light started strobing. That lasted around a half hour. Then the light got gradually dimmer. At 4 hours I stopped the test, but the light still put out enough to safely navigate a dark garage. As soon as I shut it off I pulled the battery, measuring 0.86V. Looks like this light will suck the last bit out of the AA cell.

My Opinion - I like it. I'm not sure why it strobes at 1:40 - maybe as a signal that the battery is getting weaker and it can't maintain regulation. It was still very bright at that point. I like that it just doesn't quit - you get the strobe warning, followed by hours of declining output.
-----

BTW - The battery used was an Energizer. I know it's not as good as a gen 2 with battery usage, but if I can still get light out of it after 4+ hours, that's good enough for me. Anyone else do any runtimes?


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## parnass (Jul 20, 2007)

The Shadow said:


> ... 3rd gen X1...Gave it a fresh cell and started the clock. At 1 hour, 40 minutes, the light started strobing. That lasted around a half hour. Then the light got gradually dimmer. ...



The considerably longer lasting 2nd generation Inova X1 tested in this FlashlightReviews.com report ran over 8 hours until it reached 50% brightness without any strobing.


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## Sigman (Jul 21, 2007)

Reference Gen 2...Wow, maybe I should have kept a couple of extras out of those last few I sold! :thinking:  
(80% reduction in runtime - Gen 3 vs. Gen 2!!)

I DID keep a couple though (sorry NOT for sale)! :thumbsup:


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## ltiu (Jul 21, 2007)

X1 light outputs are really low. I got both gen 2 and gen 3 and both are useless other than for close-up work (less than 20 feet distance) or if it is pitch black dark and then maybe you can see a bit further out to 50 feet. The claim on the packaging of 65 feet and 100 feet effective range respectively is greatly exaggerated.

I admit the light's external visual design is "pretty". If only it can spit as much light as a MTE 1AA SSC-P4. That would be awesome.


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## Martini (Jul 22, 2007)

ltiu said:


> I admit the light's external visual design is "pretty". If only it can spit as much light as a MTE 1AA SSC-P4. That would be awesome.


If somebody could freezer pop one and put in a P4, I'm sure it could match it. The LED in the new X1 only manages 22 lm/w _on paper_, and junction temperatures are much higher in real life. We're talking incandescent territory here. I've _nearly_ bought one several times for the sole purpose of attempting a Rebel swap, but I'd like to see one of the better modders do it first.


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## chesterqw (Jul 22, 2007)

a rebel in there would certain brighten things up.(no pun intended)


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## LukeA (Jul 22, 2007)

Martini said:


> The LED in the new X1 only manages 22 lm/w _on paper_, and junction temperatures are much higher in real life. We're talking incandescent territory here. I've _nearly_ bought one several times for the sole purpose of attempting a Rebel swap, but I'd like to see one of the better modders do it first.



I've done a PWT->Rebel Swap (admittedly in a different light) here. Original light here (with pics). Plus the Rebel isn't purplish like the PWT, in addition to being up to 4x as bright.


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## ltiu (Jul 22, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> Exactly. I don't understand why they could not have put a better LED and emitter in it and just charged a few extra bucks. It would have been the perfect little inexpensive high power light that you could pick up just about anywhere. If RiverRock can do it, why not Inova? My little 1 AA RiverRock puts out a beautiful 42 lumens and I only paid $22.00 for it.



Because if they do make X1's better, then who would buy the X5 or the T series.

It's a marketing segment strategy. If you want a brighter light, then get the higher end model. X1 is supposed to be the low end model and that's how it performs.


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## Martini (Jul 22, 2007)

ltiu said:


> If you want a brighter light, then get the higher end model. X1 is supposed to be the low end model and that's how it performs.


The problem most people have with the X1 is not brightness - I was fine with Gen2 - it's the short runtime. Generally speaking, we want to at least have one or the other; the Gen3 doesn't measure up to current technology in either.


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## ltiu (Jul 22, 2007)

Martini said:


> The problem most people have with the X1 is not brightness - I was fine with Gen2 - it's the short runtime. Generally speaking, we want to at least have one or the other; the Gen3 doesn't measure up to current technology in either.



Maybe they want more people to buy the higher end models by crapping up the lower end.


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## o0o (Jul 22, 2007)

What LED is this?

Would hate for it to be an overdriven Lux I (driving a Lux I at 2 watts would likely limit LED life). Preferably should be an underdriven Lux III?

Anyway, I see this as a HUGE upgrade. The previous version which used a 5mm--Nichia maybe?-- was very underpowered for its size in my opinion, and had a very angry blue center in the beam. The 5mm also has a rated lifetime in the hundreds of hours, rather than thousands (in most cases) in my opinion. Going to a high powered LED should improve output, color, and led life.

Runtime will suffer, but I can live with that. If the light is durable and reliable, this could be one of the best 1xAA high powered LEDs on the market for the price.


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## ltiu (Jul 22, 2007)

o0o said:


> What LED is this?



Go check your local Target or Academy Sports for this light. The gen 3 is brighter but not by much. The gen 3 light is whiter than gen 2 so less anger.


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## lumenal (Jul 22, 2007)

IMHO, Inova created this light as a sturdy,durable low-level tasklight, something in which to dig around a briefcase or glovebox, etc.

Even though the packaging states a "2 watt" LED, the light is driven way, way less. This statement is marketing hype.

This light, and previous generations, are not intended to be "pocket-rockets" or "flamethrowers".

I have all 3 generations of this light. 

I like Gen.3 the best - it has the smoothest, whitest beam, thats perfect for late-night, low-level tasks. :rock: 

A 2 hour run-time is fine with me. If I need longer run-time, I'll use Gen. 2.

And the Gen.1 spotlight, with zero side-spill, is nice to use when trying not bother others. :huh:


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## Sigman (Jul 22, 2007)

Well I've not actually seen/held a Gen 3, but I really like the Gen 1/Gen 2 combo in a little Otter box "kit". They certainly compliment each other depending on the task. 

While I'm more of a "flood" type fellow, "spot" & "throw" definitely have their places. The Gen 1's "moon beam" really is handy when wanting to look at a specific spot/place.

I'm not rushing out to find a Gen 3 - but if I see one for a decent price, I may have to pick one up to form my own opinion (while I indeed value those posted here!).


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## o0o (Jul 22, 2007)

When will Gen 3 hit Target and Bright Guy?

I'd like to get one.


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## Marduke (Jul 23, 2007)

o0o said:


> When will Gen 3 hit Target and Bright Guy?
> 
> I'd like to get one.



Gen 3 has been in Target for a number of months. Currently, most Target's still have it alongside a number of Gen 2's in black.


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## Draz (Jul 23, 2007)

I just bought a gen3..I love it. Not very bright but more than plenty for outdoor camping and inhome navigation


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## CrazyCarl (Aug 7, 2007)

Greetings people.

I noticed starting with generation 2, Inova isn't so good at making reflectors. It looked like it had a brushed finish, which makes a smooth beam but loses a lot of light.

Does the 3rd generation have the same reflector finish, and if so is it possible the PWT LED would be slightly more impressive if the reflector were polished better? Generation 2 had a 5mm LED built into a lense which focuses a lot of light straight forward, so maybe the reflector didn't hold it back as much, while the 3rd generation is a standard non-directional light source relying entirely on the reflector for focus.

I have used white rouge to improve reflectors before, but I fear having to open the X1, and I don't know for sure if it is a solid aluminum reflector.


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## sniper (Aug 25, 2007)

I had no choice other than to get a gen. 3, because my other one died. Inova replaced it under warranty. I asked, and they wouldn't even admit there might be an older model around. Buuut... I like it! The brightness is good, and the reduced run time has not proven a problem...yet. Maybe it won't, although the more the better, IMHO. 

Lately, I've been sticking Lighthound's PR based LED bulbs in various 2 cell flashlights, with gratifying results. Not the brightest spark in the forest, but WAAAAY better than the original incandescent bulb; again IMHO. 

Still looking for a MagLight 3 C Cell in any color but black. Do they even make them? A MagLight in the luggage or gove box, and an X1 of whatever generation in the pocket/purse. A good combination. :twothumbs


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## DarthLumen (Aug 29, 2007)

While at Target last night, I decided to pick up an X1. Like many here, I was highly disappointed in the low output. But as some mentioned, as a close range light, it seems to fit the bill. 

I usually carry a Peak Matterhorn 3 HP and found that the Inova was a bit brighter and had a whiter tint. 

Now, here's where it gets real interesting. The website states that the light has a two hour runtime. I thought that was pretty pathetic, considering the small amount of light this thing is putting out. HOWEVER, my X1 ran WELL beyond the 2 hrs. I turned the light on at 10:45 pm last night and eventually pulled the battery at 9:45 am THIS MORNING!!!!! This light ran for 11 hours straight !!!!!!!!!! At the end, it was still enough light (barely) to illuminate an object a foot or two away.

Has anyone else experienced a long run time or is it just my model? 

Had Inova just doubled the output, charged a bit more, this light would have caused other companies problems.


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## swxb12 (Aug 29, 2007)

Maybe 2 hours of 'effective brightness'? (to 50% output or something?)

It's great to hear about one-cell AA LED lights that use up the juice to the last drop instead of just blipping out. This'll be great for killing used batteries.


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## DarthLumen (Aug 29, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> Maybe 2 hours of 'effective brightness'? (to 50% output or something?)
> 
> It's great to hear about one-cell AA LED lights that use up the juice to the last drop instead of just blipping out. This'll be great for killing used batteries.




Initially, I thought I had a model that slipped through the cracks. Eventually, I concluded the same thing.....regulated for a short period and then a relatively long diminishing tail.

Man, only if it were brighter, this would be a big time winner. The machining is excellent.


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## Marduke (Aug 29, 2007)

DarthLumen said:


> While at Target last night, I decided to pick up an X1. Like many here, I was highly disappointed in the low output. But as some mentioned, as a close range light, it seems to fit the bill.
> 
> I usually carry a Peak Matterhorn 3 HP and found that the Inova was a bit brighter and had a whiter tint.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you picked up the gen 2, not the gen 3. Target still carries both in most places. Unless the package explicitly advertises 2.0 Watt on the front, you got the old gen 2 with Nichia 5mm LED, and ~10 hour runtime.


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## cyberspyder (Aug 29, 2007)

Meh to the bezel issue...I was one of the unlucky ones whose lens popped off, but the light was just too damn cheap to pay the shipping to and from Inova (Canadian). :shakehead


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## DarthLumen (Aug 29, 2007)

Marduke said:


> Sounds like you picked up the gen 2, not the gen 3. Target still carries both in most places. Unless the package explicitly advertises 2.0 Watt on the front, you got the old gen 2 with Nichia 5mm LED, and ~10 hour runtime.



My package clearly states the 2.0 Watt on the front.....and it's definitely not a 5mm LED.


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## sORe-EyEz (Aug 30, 2007)

i hope more people w/ the gen3 X1 can confirm this, it'll be great news. i always thought 2hr+ on an 1AA batt a letdown. a newer ver at that. :shrug:


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## Delij (Aug 30, 2007)

Marduke said:


> Sounds like you picked up the gen 2, not the gen 3. Target still carries both in most places. Unless the package explicitly advertises 2.0 Watt on the front, you got the old gen 2 with Nichia 5mm LED, and ~10 hour runtime.


 
I am quite confused. Yesterday I bought an X1 at Target. The package said 2 watts.

I got home and read this thread (should have seen it before, but it was an impulse purchase, so guess it wouldn't have been a factor)

. Now I'm not sure what I have.

The picture posted of the emitter somewhere in this thread looks different than what I have. The light I got yesterday looks like the emitter has a big blob of glass over it (looks like a bulb under the lens).

I also bought the little River Rock single AA when I was in Target for my son who has been wanting my Ultrafire C3. I know it's very different, but at least they look similar and are sized similar. The River Rock was more $ than the X1 (I think about $24?). Anyway, I wanted to see how long it (the River Rock) would run on the original AA battery it came with. In less than two hours it shut off. After letting the battery "recover' a few times, it would run for 20 seconds (or less) and completely shut off - not dim slowly....shut off suddenly.

I then took that same battery and stuck it in the X1. That has now been 10 hours since I did that and the X1 is still lit up. It is not bright, but wasn't bright with a fresh cell.:thinking: (Just pulled the battery out for a moment to check voltage...showing .90 volts). Put the battery back in the X1...still going. Wonder how long it will continue? (If I happen to be around to catch when it goes out, I'll post a follow up, but 10 hours AFTER the cell would not light the River Rock seems like a lot...or the River Rock is *really* short on run time).

So I'm wondering if I have a third gen X1 (package DOES say "2.0 Watts", or if it's possible I have something else. The quoted post seems to imply that if packaging says "2 Watts" is the 3rd gen.

But the run time seems longer than discussed, and again...the LED looks different than what I thought I saw posted here for the 3rd gen.

Off topic a bit....hard to believe the River Rock cost more. Yes it's brighter, but quality is so far short of the Inova. Screwing on the tail-cap felt like it was lubricated with sand. I cleaned the threads and lubed them with fishing reel grease. A bit better, but nothing like the feel of the Inova...or for that matter, the Utlrafire C3, which also cost less (and is far brighter with the Cree). Wish they were locally available.

Anyway, did I NOT get the third gen X1 despite the "new" style packaging? Did I misunderstand about the packaging? Did the Gen 2 also say "2 Watts"?

Thanks for any input,

Peace,
D.


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## Bomo (Aug 30, 2007)

Will the gen 3 X1 run on NiMh rechargeables? I have a gen 2 that will run only on alkalines. :candle:


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## Flying Turtle (Aug 30, 2007)

Delij said:


> The picture posted of the emitter somewhere in this thread looks different than what I have. The light I got yesterday looks like the emitter has a big blob of glass over it (looks like a bulb under the lens).



From your description it sounds like you may have received a Gen. 2 instead of the Gen. 3. That may be a good thing.

Geoff


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## Delij (Aug 30, 2007)

Flying Turtle said:


> From your description it sounds like you may have received a Gen. 2 instead of the Gen. 3. That may be a good thing.
> 
> Geoff


 

OK thanks for the response. From what I've read, that's what made the most sense. 

What threw me (still does) is I got the impression that if the package said "2.0 Watts" it was Gen 3. The package DID say 2 watts.

BTW, the light is still running. It has now been over 12 hours since it went dead in the River Rock.

Thanks again,
D.


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## Marduke (Aug 30, 2007)

Sometimes a person will but a product, replace their newly purchased product with an older or broken one that they already own, then return the old product with the new product's packaging and receipt for a refund.


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## Delij (Aug 30, 2007)

Marduke said:


> Sometimes a person will but a product, replace their newly purchased product with an older or broken one that they already own, then return the old product with the new product's packaging and receipt for a refund.


 

Wasn;t as if the package was scotch taped back together. I had to use my very sharp pocket knife to get that plastic container open. Don't know why that kind of packaging is so prevalent. I had bought a computer cable a few days ago and couldn't open it at all when I needed it (a rare time I did not have my knife with me....won't happen again).

BTW...it is now about 17 hours since the battery stopped working entirely in the River Rock and the x1 is still going. Not bright, but bright enough to put a spot on the wall (maybe 12 feet?). Dim, but as I had said, it was dim wtih a fresh battery.

Peace,
D.


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## The Shadow (Aug 30, 2007)

I think you'll find some answers buried deep in this same thread. Check out the emitter and see if it looks like the pic in POST#12. If it's got that rectangular shape, it's the Gen 3. If it's round, it's probably a Gen 2.

As for runtime, my Gen 3 lasts more than 2 hours. I ran a test a while ago (results in POST#236) and was quite satisfied with the runtime.

17 hours - you've got a good little light there! I may have to test my further...


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## Delij (Aug 30, 2007)

The Shadow said:


> I think you'll find some answers buried deep in this same thread. Check out the emitter and see if it looks like the pic in POST#12. If it's got that rectangular shape, it's the Gen 3. If it's round, it's probably a Gen 2.
> 
> As for runtime, my Gen 3 lasts more than 2 hours. I ran a test a while ago (results in POST#236) and was quite satisfied with the runtime.
> 
> 17 hours - you've got a good little light there! I may have to test my further...


Doesn't look at all like the emitter in post #12. It looks more like a bulb. As if a small globe of glass is on top of the emitter. 

As for the 17 hours.....well it's now another hour and a half. I tried taking it out of the X1 and putting it in a couple of other single AA cell lights. Dead as a doornail. But put it back in the X! and it's still running....I am amazed. My multimeter shows voltage down in the .8 to .9 range (seems to fluctuate.....as if it recovers when it isn't under load)
Thanks,
D.


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## Marduke (Aug 31, 2007)

That definitely sounds like a gen 2 with a 5mm Nichia.


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## DarthLumen (Aug 31, 2007)

Mine definitely looks like the emmitter in post #12, package says "2.0" and it ran well into 11 hours. 

Something I forgot to mention earlier was that it went into a flashing mode roughly 6-8 hours from the start, stopped, and simply kept going.

I can't figure this one out. ????????????????


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## Delij (Aug 31, 2007)

Marduke said:


> That definitely sounds like a gen 2 with a 5mm Nichia.


 
Do you say this due to the way the emitter seems to be covered by a glass shroud? Or due to the run time?

I don't know what a 5mm Nichia led looks like, but I just looked at all my LED lights and the only one with a similar looking emitter is a cheap Garrity with 9 seperate LEDs....they look like small bulbs. But the X1, even though it is not bright is still brighter (with a fresh battery) than the Garrity with 9 LEDs and three AAA cells.

Meanwhile coming up on 21.5 hours since the River Rock light went dark with this battery and almost 24 hours since I first turned the light on (before moving the cell from the RR to the X1). 

This is the Rayovac alkaline battery that came in the RR. I have replaced all of my AA and AAA batteries in all my lights with Energizer Lithium cells. Their packaging says they last seven times longer. Can I realistically expect this X1 to run for a week or more with one of those cells if it runs 24 hours with an alkaline? Seems hard to imagine!

Main reason for using Lithiums is shelf life....I'd like to forget about most of the lights but have them in working order in case of a hurricane. I haven't seen them in larger sizes.....I do have a bunch of C and D cell lights. I have boxes of fresh batteries, but I know I can't count on them for 10 years of non-use.

I also have some rechargeable NiMH but have no idea how long they are good for when not used. So I'm afraid to use them. Too bad because they were not cheap. Also, I'm not sure about what their lower voltage means to me. Can't tell any apparent difference in output, but that's with freshly charged cells compared to new disposables. Multimeter definitely shows them as having less voltage. Label says 2500 mah, but I don't know what the amperage is on the lithiums or alkalines. This is all getting so confusing I almost wish I had not gotten hooked so quickly on this stuff and just kept a few boxes of candles and matches around...LOL (I say this as I lovingly caress the X1 and see it still glowing with a battery that can't even start any other lights - I do love the feel of this Inova....just as I do my Xo3 .....They really are built like tanks! :twothumbs
Thanks,
D.


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## Kilovolt (Aug 31, 2007)

Delij, while a picture of Gen.3's LED is in post #12 here, pictures of both G.1 and G.2 can be found here:

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/inova_x1.htm

You are now in a position to tell which X1 version you are using.


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## Marduke (Aug 31, 2007)

Delij said:


> Do you say this due to the way the emitter seems to be covered by a glass shroud? Or due to the run time?
> 
> I don't know what a 5mm Nichia led looks like, but I just looked at all my LED lights and the only one with a similar looking emitter is a cheap Garrity with 9 seperate LEDs....they look like small bulbs. But the X1, even though it is not bright is still brighter (with a fresh battery) than the Garrity with 9 LEDs and three AAA cells.
> 
> ...



A 5mm LED looks like a mini bulb, and is exactly what your Garrity uses. If it looks like one of the lights pictured on the link that Kilovolt posted, you got the older gen2, which most prefer because of the longer runtime. Regular NiMH batteries loose their charge after sitting on a shelf for one month, and are best used if you use the device often enough to need to recharge the batteries every couple weeks or more. They make low self discharge (LSD) NiMH which will hold 85% of their charge over a year. Two main brands in this category are Eneloops, and Rayovac Hybrids. For more detailed battery questions, read through the battery forum on CPF.


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## Delij (Aug 31, 2007)

Marduke said:


> A 5mm LED looks like a mini bulb, and is exactly what your Garrity uses.
> ..............................
> 
> . For more detailed battery questions, read through the battery forum on CPF.


Thank for the info on the LED. I'm quite sure that somehow I got a gen 2 light in a gen 3 package. It's getting boring at this point waiting to see how long it will run. It's now been close to 30 hours since the cell went dead in the River Rock....still going in the X1 and able to put a spot on the wall from 6 feet (faint, but there).
I will check out the battery forums...didn't even realize there was one. Still unfamiliar with this site. (I'm getting there though...all of a sudden I went from NO led lights to a draw full ...maybe a dozen? ...in a matter of a month or so).

peace,
D.


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## Flying Turtle (Aug 31, 2007)

Thanks for doing this long run test. While I've had Gen. 1 & 2 X1s for many moons I've never actually timed out a battery. Don't recall it being reported. Good to know it goes and goes.

Geoff


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## Pistolero (Aug 31, 2007)

Delij said:


> Thank for the info on the LED. I'm quite sure that somehow I got a gen 2 light in a gen 3 package. It's getting boring at this point waiting to see how long it will run. It's now been close to 30 hours since the cell went dead in the River Rock....still going in the X1 and able to put a spot on the wall from 6 feet (faint, but there).



You're looking in the wrong place... the flashlight is normal... but you may have gotten a dilithium-ion battery by mistake. (Runs x999,999 times longer than standard alkalines) I'm guessing a timelord may be playing a prank on you.


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## Marduke (Aug 31, 2007)

Pistolero said:


> You're looking in the wrong place... the flashlight is normal... but you may have gotten a dilithium-ion battery by mistake. (Runs x999,999 times longer than standard alkalines) I'm guessing a timelord may be playing a prank on you.



He said " This is the Rayovac alkaline battery that came in the RR."


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## Pistolero (Aug 31, 2007)

Marduke said:


> He said " This is the Rayovac alkaline battery that came in the RR."



:cough:
"I'm guessing a timelord may be playing a prank on you"

:nana:


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## Delij (Sep 1, 2007)

Pistolero said:


> You're looking in the wrong place... the flashlight is normal... but you may have gotten a dilithium-ion battery by mistake. (Runs x999,999 times longer than standard alkalines) I'm guessing a timelord may be playing a prank on you.


 
About 60 hours since it went dead in the River Rock, and the X1 is still putting a spot on the wall (in daylight - blinds closed) from 6 feet!

I'm beggining to believe that there WAS a prank pulled on me. A Mr.Scott called looking for his dilithium something or other. Also a Capt. Kirk...who are these guys? LOL 

Peace,
D.


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## Delij (Sep 2, 2007)

~80 hours the light started flashing. I don't know if I should just let it keep flashing and see how long it takes to go out, or if that would damage the light in any way?

Thanks,
D.


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## parnass (Sep 2, 2007)

Delij said:


> ~80 hours the light started flashing. I don't know if I should just let it keep flashing and see how long it takes to go out, or if that would damage the light in any way?



The light can be damaged if the battery leaks. I won't use an alkaline cell when its voltage gets low to avoid leakage problems.


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## Delij (Sep 2, 2007)

parnass said:


> The light can be damaged if the battery leaks. I won't use an alkaline cell when its voltage gets low to avoid leakage problems.


 
OK...thanks for the input. The light is still flashing and I guess there's no real need to know how long it will perform in this manner since it has no practical use at all. (Maybe find a dropped key inside a car at best).

Out comes the alkaline and I'll try both a rechargeable NiMH and a primary lithuim. See how long (and bright) they run. 

Peace,
D.


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## Marduke (Sep 2, 2007)

check the voltage on the alkaline that came out.


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## Delij (Sep 2, 2007)

Marduke said:


> check the voltage on the alkaline that came out.


I'm not sure what the correct reading is. I pulled it out and got the leads of my multimeter on the poles and it started at .863 volts and slowly increased to .912 (over maybe 30 or 40 seconds...didn't think to time it) - as if it were somehow gaining strength once not having a load. Does this sound right?

TIA

Peace,
D.


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## Ron Schroeder (Sep 7, 2007)

I wonder if a Rebel will fit without modifying the reflector hole?

The PWT that is in the X1 gen3 is 1.6 x 2.0mm and the Rebel is 3.17 x 4.61mm.

Both have the same beam angle and similar focal point height.


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## L.E.D. (Oct 31, 2007)

Strange, now there seems to be two versions of the Gen 3. Just like DarthLumen reported in post #271, I seem to be getting much better runtime. I measured the current out of the battery from my newly bought X1 Gen 3, and I'm getting around 300 mA, whereas others have reported around -!!700!!-. Also, ceiling bounce tests show this X1 to be just as bright maybe slightly brighter than the RR 1AA 1W, and I know for a fact the RR uses far more than 300 mA. If all of this is true, it seems that the new Lux PWT's have increased an insane jump in efficiency. The tint on this particular X1 is also nice, slightly cool / blue, not green at all, quite white.


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## L.E.D. (Oct 31, 2007)

Very nice runtime indeed. Not a bad light at all, pretty nice improvements on the microknurling grip finish and smoother threads (I have an old gen1 blue LED X1). The beam produced by this light is unique, mostly bright even flood though the smaller hotspot with a square corona works well up to around 150 - 200 ft in complete darkness. The flood produced by this light is nice, not sure if the reflector in here was designed to give mostly flood. A Rebel 100 (my prefered, smallest footprint, fuller spectrum) or current bin SSC in this light would make it GREAT. The Cree would need the reflector to be orange peel for a smooth beam, which would be good as well. I'm wondering if it's the little PWT which is practically domeless that is giving it a bit of hotspot weakness or the reflector.. Would one of the three aforementioned new emitters provide more hotspot with virtually the same reflector?


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## L.E.D. (Oct 31, 2007)

To be fair, the RR 1AA was using a well-used battery yesterday. Retried the ceiling bounce estimate again and can see that the Inova X1 is probably 2/3 as bright as the RR. I am getting over 7 hours with an alkaline in the Inova. One thing I also wanted to point out was that the PWT Lux ( http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=1829&link_str=202&partno=LXCL-PWT1 ) [refer to LXCL-PWT1 Technical Data Sheet (Published By Lumileds)] does NOT have a life of 2000 hours, it's only been tested so far to the extent of 2000 hours and is showing still over 90% of the original output. Even to reach 2000 hours would take a long time, and im sure it will still light with decent brightness many thousands of hours after that.


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## jdong (Oct 31, 2007)

You can definitely get 7-12 hours of "usable" runtime but 80% of that time will be in a low-output mode, and there's a 30min flickering barrier between the two. The X1 is not a bad light at all, particularly for its price and warranty, but I don't think any of us are going to say that it's the most efficient or brightest or longest-running 1AA.


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## L.E.D. (Oct 31, 2007)

They REALLY need to put a Rebel 100 or even at least an 80 into this thing.


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## jdong (Nov 1, 2007)

L.E.D. said:


> They REALLY need to put a Rebel 100 or even at least an 80 into this thing.



I doubt it'd still be a $19.99 flashlight anymore if that were the case. This would be a good idea IMO for the next refresh of the higher-end models (XO, XO3, T-series) but whatever they need to do to keep the X1 affordable, please do it. Flashlights in the $30 range and higher only targets enthusiasts and the average guy walking through Target won't even consider them.


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## Martini (Nov 2, 2007)

jdong said:


> I doubt it'd still be a $19.99 flashlight anymore if that were the case. This would be a good idea IMO for the next refresh of the higher-end models (XO, XO3, T-series) but whatever they need to do to keep the X1 affordable, please do it. Flashlights in the $30 range and higher only targets enthusiasts and the average guy walking through Target won't even consider them.


Actually, the PWT in the X1 is currently _more expensive_ than the lower bin Rebels. I don't think the Rebel was available in commercial quantities when the new X1 went into production. To switch LEDs, they'd also have to redesign the reflector; the dice are different sizes and have different radiation patterns as well.

I don't think the X1 needs to be super bright, but it ought to have a more efficient LED for the sake of runtime. At 22 lm/w, you might as well be using an incan.


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## Alero (Nov 5, 2007)

I get about 2 hours from mine, then it starts to strobe. But I can twist the switch back a bit and it doesn't strobe anymore. I do this for around 20 minutes (combined, doesn't have to be all at once) until the battery is a little more drained and then it doesn't strobe anymore. Now I'm in moom mode. It's been working for quite a few hours like this. Not much light, but still good for walking around the house in the dark.


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## jdong (Nov 7, 2007)

Martini said:


> Actually, the PWT in the X1 is currently _more expensive_ than the lower bin Rebels. .



Good to know  -- I'd be extremely surprised if the next revision doesn't use a better LED if pricing and availability are both there.


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## gwbaltzell (Nov 13, 2007)

I bought one without reading here first. Likely a mistake. I haven't made a rig to measure voltage and current at the same time but I got 710ma with a fresh alkaline. .71 * 1.5 = 1 watt not 2 as I was expecting also. 20 minute runtime with a cheap NiCd and I wasn't expecting the blinking to indicate end of battery life, but a drop in brightness! The 2 watt package labeling may get a complaint to Emissive Energy from me. I'm going to look around for a gen. 2.


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## Marduke (Nov 13, 2007)

gwbaltzell said:


> I bought one without reading here first. Likely a mistake. I haven't made a rig to measure voltage and current at the same time but I got 710ma with a fresh alkaline. .71 * 1.5 = 1 watt not 2 as I was expecting also. 20 minute runtime with a cheap NiCd and I wasn't expecting the blinking to indicate end of battery life, but a drop in brightness! The 2 watt package labeling may get a complaint to Emissive Energy from me. I'm going to look around for a gen. 2.



Target and Academy Sports carry the gen 2. Target actually carries both the gen 2 and gen 3


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## jdong (Nov 13, 2007)

EDIT : also seems like inova saved their rears with the wattage denotation, it's of the rating of the emitter, not the driven wattage. 

20 minute runtime is a bit harsh.... maybe that's because of the battery you were using. I've gotten about 1:30 to blinking, and then 2:00 it stops blinking and moons for 10+ hrs.


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## gwbaltzell (Nov 14, 2007)

jdong said:


> EDIT : also seems like inova saved their rears with the wattage denotation, it's of the rating of the emitter, not the driven wattage.
> 
> 20 minute runtime is a bit harsh.... maybe that's because of the battery you were using. I've gotten about 1:30 to blinking, and then 2:00 it stops blinking and moons for 10+ hrs.



The 20 minute was on an old NiCd and not surprising if the rating is 2 hrs on a fresh alkaline. Mine came from Target but I saw no other X1s there. I'd plan to check some other Targets.

About the 2 watt, how would you feel about buying a 6 cylinder car and finding out when you get it on the road it's only running on 3? Hey, it's got 6 cylinders, count em.

I do need to go and review some battery specs. since it might not be reasonable to try to run 2 watts off of a AA cell, but that is no excuse for marketing it as if it was a 2 watt.
______

After checking the specs. for the Energizer E91 cell under a constant power drain of one watt and assuming a final voltage of 0.9 runtime would be one hour! They give no higher power drain on the chart. The X91 (e squared) looks to be a runtime of about 1.2 hrs. The L91 (primary lithium) looks like just a touch over 2 hr if drained to a voltage of 1.0 and appears to be the only primary cell of the AA size that could deliver a 2 watt power. 

I did try a primary lithium and got an initial drain of 690ma. 1.6 * .690 = 1.1 watt. *If* the internal converter is running at 90% efficiency then 1 watt is being input to the LED.


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## jdong (Nov 14, 2007)

gwbaltzell said:


> The 20 minute was on an old NiCd and not surprising if the rating is 2 hrs on a fresh alkaline. Mine came from Target but I saw no other X1s there. I'd plan to check some other Targets.
> 
> About the 2 watt, how would you feel about buying a 6 cylinder car and finding out when you get it on the road it's only running on 3? Hey, it's got 6 cylinders, count em.
> 
> I do need to go and review some battery specs. since it might not be reasonable to try to run 2 watts off of a AA cell, but that is no excuse for marketing it as if it was a 2 watt.



Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying what Inova doing is *right* -- i.e. advertising a 2.0W LED when they are driving it nowhere near that figure. I'm just saying complaints are probably useless because the package has a legalese catch-all that claims 2.0W is the rating of the bulb. IMO this is bad marketing too, along with all of the 4.8 or whatever wattage they're putting on their K2 based lights.


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## umberto (Nov 16, 2007)

I just skimmed all 10 pages here:

1) are there really 2 diff versions of gen 3 and how do you tell the difference by looking at the light/package, and what's the diff of brightness/runtimes between the 2 versions of gen 3?

2) early in the thread, Matt at BatteryJunction hinted at a rebel to soon be released in an AA size light....did he ever divluge what he was thinking about?


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## Marduke (Nov 16, 2007)

umberto said:


> I just skimmed all 10 pages here:
> 
> 1) are there really 2 diff versions of gen 3 and how do you tell the difference by looking at the light/package, and what's the diff of brightness/runtimes between the 2 versions of gen 3?
> 
> 2) early in the thread, Matt at BatteryJunction hinted at a rebel to soon be released in an AA size light....did he ever divluge what he was thinking about?



1) I don't think so, I believe it's just the Luxeon lottery, along with a description issue between people. Most of the v3's seem to be fine for a while, but somewhere around 1.2v, it starts blinking and goes into moon mode. The reason some lights will take NiMH and some won't is probably just a bit of scatter in the individual circuit, and the voltage of the NiMH used. Some start at 1.34ish, some 1.42 off the charger, some are at 1.2 within a few days. Really, the circuit probably isn't designed that well, as I think it should have been made to accept cells down to 1v or even 0.8v


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## L.E.D. (Nov 16, 2007)

There's gotta be two versions, mine is drawing nowhere near 650 mA like a previous poster's X1 gen3. Mine is only drawing 300 mA, and has over 2x overall output compared to my gen2 X1.


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## gwbaltzell (Nov 17, 2007)

Some meters may not read the pulsing DC correctly though my very cheap one read almost as high as the expensive one which was designed to handle pulses.

BTW, I'm not all that please with the tactical switch either. It seems to require about 3 times the pressure as my X0 to keep the light on. Was the X0 with the acrylic optical the peak of Innova's design?


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## yaesumofo (Nov 18, 2007)

The only rebel I have seen is in a fenix P2D r100. And in the fenix the rebel emitter is ROUND not a square.
Yaesumofo


nanotech17 said:


> That looks like a Luxeon Rebel to me !


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## yaesumofo (Nov 18, 2007)

I still prefer the first generation of X!. They have a great optical based system which produces a very cool SPOT. Sort of like a MINI spot light. the effect is really nice when you use several all of different colors to light miniature scenes for photography. The Version 1 X1 still rocks.
Oh and BTW What does an emitter with a 2000 hour life doing on a flashlight with a warranty of more than a year? They will end up replacing a whole bunch or emitters on cheap flashlights very quickly. NOT a smart move.
Yaesumofo


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## L.E.D. (Nov 19, 2007)

I also loved the first version of the X1, and was sad when they stopped producing them. I have found a decent replacement for a gen1, and it's the $12 1AA River Rock, projects almost the exact same beam, except it seems to be brighter overall than my gen1 X1 with a slightly tighter spot. Current draw on a fresh AA is 220 mA, maybe they're even using the same circuit as the X1? They could do away with the blinking mode though..


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## Martini (Nov 19, 2007)

yaesumofo said:


> Oh and BTW What does an emitter with a 2000 hour life doing on a flashlight with a warranty of more than a year? They will end up replacing a whole bunch or emitters on cheap flashlights very quickly. NOT a smart move.


That emitter was designed for cell phones, if you ask me. They're basically disposable since people get suckered into always buying the latest and greatest and trashing the old one. I'm still holding my breath for a Rebel version of the X1.

+1 on the River Rock 1AA. That was one of my better finds last year, and it is very much like the original X1. Unfortunately, it's obviously not as durable as the Inova.


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## gwbaltzell (Nov 24, 2007)

yaesumofo said:


> I still prefer the first generation of X!. They have a great optical based system which produces a very cool SPOT. Sort of like a MINI spot light. the effect is really nice when you use several all of different colors to light miniature scenes for photography. The Version 1 X1 still rocks.
> Oh and BTW What does an emitter with a 2000 hour life doing on a flashlight with a warranty of more than a year? They will end up replacing a whole bunch or emitters on cheap flashlights very quickly. NOT a smart move.
> Yaesumofo



This may be part of the reason they are so under driven (less than 1 watt) along with the fact only way to get the amperage you need to drive it at 2 watts is to use a lithium. 

Actually my main reason for posting is I had mentioned the theoretical run time with an Energizer e2 cell. Turns out that is likely to remain theoretical. *An e2 titanium won't fit!* An e2 lithium will.


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## L.E.D. (Nov 25, 2007)

Maybe if one actually checked the lumen maintenance chart and the testing, the LED having been driven at 350 mA for 2000 hours is still at 80 - 90 percent of its original output. Since the X1 is underdriving the emitter, you can expect even better. The truth is, even if it went to ZERO percent at 2000, it'd still be decent, you'd be hard pressed to use the light for 2000 hours continuously anyway.


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## Martini (Nov 25, 2007)

L.E.D. said:


> Maybe if one actually checked the lumen maintenance chart and the testing, the LED having been driven at 350 mA for 2000 hours is still at 80 - 90 percent of its original output. Since the X1 is underdriving the emitter, you can expect even better. The truth is, even if it went to ZERO percent at 2000, it'd still be decent, you'd be hard pressed to use the light for 2000 hours continuously anyway.


True, but it shortens the overall life of the light. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that junction temperature was more important than drive current where lumen maintenance is concerned. The PWT, being so small, has very little area over which to dissipate heat; I imagine that this is the cause of the low lumen maintenance, and thus the LED would have to be very underdriven to have much of an effect on its lifespan.

BTW, having an LED flashlight burn out completely in five years probably wouldn't phase the average consumer - but I would be royally cheesed. :scowl:


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## Burgess (Nov 26, 2007)

Yes, i'd be very disappointed, also.


However, Inova *does *have a lifetime warranty.


Of course, that's only if they're *still around*. 


_


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## Mendicant Bias (Dec 9, 2007)

Hello, I am kind of not a flashlight guru or anything, but I recently bought an inova x1 gen 3, and I am quite satisfied. 

I have seen many reviews and such about it saying that the battery life is despicable, but I must say that it is not true, at least for my light.

Today I was writing a research paper, and decided to turn on my x1 to see how long a standard Rayovac Alkaline battery would last. I am pleased to say that It has been on for over five hours, with no blinking or other adverse behavior. The intensity seems to be very close to the starting intensity as well, I am surprised. It is still about as bright as my inova micro light, and at more than 2.5 times the expected battery life that is great in my opinion.

The battery that is in it is a standard Rayovac, not even their Rayovac Ultra or whatever their higher end alkaline AAs are called. I saw a few posts about some x1s being of higher quality than others, and the only explanation for this is that I found a good one. I am certain that this is a gen 3, as my packaging has the 2 watt advertisement.

Anyone want to attempt to explain why it lasts so long?


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## Burgess (Dec 9, 2007)

Welcome to CandlePowerForums !

:welcome:


Glad you are happy with your new X1. :thumbsup:


Just be careful not to *drop* it !


:devil:

(well, that's how *mine* died ! YMMV)

_


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## StandardBattery (Dec 9, 2007)

Mendicant Bias said:


> Hello, I am kind of not a flashlight guru or anything, but I recently bought an inova x1 gen 3, and I am quite satisfied.
> ...
> Anyone want to attempt to explain why it lasts so long?


I can't explain it, but I've grown to like my X1 3rd Gen. I was dissapointed at first when I saw the output. Then when I can here and read about the other issues I ended up in buying a 2nd Gen one because I liked the form-factor and build quality. HOWEVER; the 3rd Gen was nicer tint, nicer feel with the satin texture finish, and the battery didn't seem to be prematurely expiring. I started to use the light for low-light tasks and really began to appreciate it. I send the Gen-2 to Guatamalla and never looked back. 

So I'm also converted I like the X1-Gen 3. A high-quality light at a fair price. It may not be high-output, but I can deal with that.


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## st_tammy (May 2, 2008)

Hi all,

I first bought the Inova X1 (gen 1) when it first came out. I fell in love with the build quality but I just couldn't live with the moon beam so I gave it away.

I recently purchased a new X1 3rd gen and I must say, I am impressed!

The build quality is comparable with 1st gen but I'm not convinced it all made in the US. I much prefer the finishing on the X1 1st gen as it had a brushed look.

The light itself has great spread and the light is WHITE! Most LED torches I have have a slight blue tint but this is WHITE!

It's also quite powerful and there was a concern that with the torch being 2.0 watt I was only going to get 2 hours of constant usage.

To satisfy my curiosity I left the torch on for 1 hour on the table. To determine the decrease in power I drew an outline of the beam and spot on the wall. I came back after 1 hour and it was exactly the same! No decrease in beam power at all. The only thing I noticed was that the torch was a bit hot.

So, I must say that I am very happy with this torch. I think Inova were playing about with different variations but I think I got a good one.

I purchased this torch for about £8 from the states and for the money and guarantee, you can't go wrong!

Very happy.

Thanks.

P.S. The ONLY problem I've noticed is that the battery (Energizer) was rattling inside the torch! I quickly and easily remedied this with a strip of paper and now it's fine.


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## Kilovolt (May 2, 2008)

st_tammy said:


> The light itself has great spread and the light is WHITE! Most LED torches I have have a slight blue hue but this is WHITE!


 
You are lucky, my X1's beam is definitely green......


BTW, hi st_tammy and a warm :welcome:


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## Burgess (May 3, 2008)

Wow !


This thread has had more than 20 Thousand "hits" !


Obviously, there is interest in this flashlight. 



*Hey Inova !*

How about an Update, eh ?


A "modern emitter" would be a nice touch. 

_


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## st_tammy (May 4, 2008)

Burgess said:


> Wow !
> 
> 
> This thread has had more than 20 Thousand "hits" !
> ...



Doesn't the 3rd gen use a modern emitter anyway? It looks like the images on the first page of this thread. Not like a bulb but a rectangular 'chip'.

I have a potential problem:

Sometimes the light flashes when I turn the knob to the "constant on" position. The flashes have regular time intervals so it seems the control logic is definitely up to something. I've looked in the manual but it doesn't mention anything. Also, another problem is when I press the knob on the back the light flickers irregularly (like it's not making proper contact with the battery). I've twisted the knob to the 'right' position and am using quite a lot of force!

I'd appreciate any help on this (I never had these problems with the first gen).

I'm new to the torch light scene so apologies for my ignorance.


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## parnass (May 4, 2008)

st_tammy said:


> Doesn't the 3rd gen .....
> 
> Sometimes the light flashes when I turn the knob to the "constant on" position. The flashes have regular time intervals so it seems the control logic is definitely up to something. .....



That is a signal that your battery voltage has decreased below a certain threshhold and you will need to replace the battery soon.


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## st_tammy (May 9, 2008)

Hi all,

I thought I'd let you know that I've given away my X1 3rd gen. I wasn't happy with the runtime (2hours) and the lumens.

Instead, I just got a Fenix L1D CE Q5 and it's great. The build quality surpasses the X1, you can stand the light, various modes, amazing lumens in Turbo mode, various mode settings, nice case, spare bits, upgradeable, the list goes on....

X1 is about as bright as 'medium' setting on the Fenix. Moreover, I get about two hours in Turbo mode which leaves the X1 behind. Totally.

Although the Fenix costs twice as much and it doesn't have lifetime guarantee like the Inova I absolutely love this little light!


Twice I've bought an X1 with very positive initial impressions but gave them away too quickly.

P.S. I just can't believe this is made in china!


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## cyberspyder (Jul 6, 2008)

I gave up on getting X1s after the shoddy lens fell out twice....my Gen 2 had to go back twice...I'm not sure if I want to get the Gen3, as I want a really long runtime light, and the Gen2 offers(ed) that (10 hours vs. 2). Hell, I have no idea why people are b!tching at the limited brightness....it's the perfect walking light or tent light, as it doesn't throw out alot of light that would ruin your nightvision or blind you.

Brendan


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## Kilovolt (Jul 7, 2008)

cyberspyder said:


> ...I'm not sure if I want to get the Gen3, as I want a really long runtime light, and the Gen2 offers(ed) that (10 hours vs. 2).


 
I've had all three versions for a while now and I can surely say that you can follow your idea and do without Gen 3. The beam is not better than Gen 2 and the runtime is poor. I use Gen 2 for reading in bed and the battery lasts forever...


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## BP2000 (Sep 21, 2008)

I now have 4 INOVA x1 Gen-3 lights. I can say without a doubt that there are large variations between them. They all have what seems to be the same emitter. #1 is quite bright, almost near the same as an X5 only with a neutral white beam. #2 is about half as bright with the same tint. #3 is brighter than #2 but not quite as bright as #1 and has a greenish tint on the edge of the beam with a bluish center. #4 is about as bright as #1 with a warm somewhat reddish tint. The current draw using the same exact cell in all lights (fresh Energizer alkaline) is between 0.720-0.780 Amp. The brighter ones seem to draw more current.


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## docfi (Sep 22, 2008)

Taking my third one back to Target. They work for a week or so, start to flicker then die (new batteries don't help). Going back to my Arc AAA-P. It's brighter anyway.


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## polkiuj (May 5, 2009)

cratz2 said:


> Here's something else to throw out there, I just did some DMM measurements of current pull from the battery (ie, these measurements are NOT what the LED sees but what the driver pulls from the cell) on my two Gen 3 X1s and here is what I found:
> 
> Titanium Black
> 680mA	650mA on Alkaline cell measuring 1.59V
> ...



Hey!! Sorry for bringing up an old tread. I would like to know how does the X1 work with a 14500. Will it kill the light?? =D


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## MattK (May 5, 2009)

Almost undoubtedly.


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## zipplet (Oct 2, 2009)

Interesting. I just purchased what I believe is a 3rd gen Inova X1 from a UK supplier - "2.0W" printed on the packaging and what looks like a PWT luxeon emitter (tiny square emitter on a gold PCB w/ reflector).

The most interesting part is that I only measure 0.23A current draw at the tailcap with a fresh eneloop. I was expecting almost an amp after reports of 3rd gen X1's only lasting 2 hours or so. Yes I know how to measure current and I used the 10A scale.

Brightness looks to be brighter than my old Fenix L0P but slightly dimmer than a Streamlight Microstream. I need to do a runtime test...


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