# Aliens



## hoffmyster86 (Aug 5, 2012)

who's into the conspiracy of aliens..?

i was reading the post on here about strobe lights and what are they useful for when it dawned on, ooo the old abducted efferts, people all over the world claiming so, ok if any one has been truly abducted then overt your eyes..lol

sinario, small craft travelling bililons of light years, tecnology beyond your dream... point one, uh big anul probe? not happening is it? it'd be a will smith and men in black gadget that fits into your watch.. amoungst other things.
next? why pick on the drunk ones late home to the missis? ok they may be more relaxed for that large inplimentasion divice, but well.. there are 'other' exsplanasions.

plan B..been a traveling for ooo, seems like years now, the humours ran out aboard ship, that probes been used for every implicasion going, it's lost its humour and 'oooo here that?'.........'sheeesh sounds like life in this here galaxy' of yu go to take a peek, after all they may hungry, or violent as a race, posabley far more advanced than your self, you dont want your jacksey investigated now do yu!
so, shhh stealth mode to observe, hmmm 'neighbours.. nothing but good neighbours', can image the suprise when you translated that garbage? yes the probes now first on the list and not the will smith edision!
next, the science programs, probably interprate as a bad humour program, the politicks and war? you'd freek in yu pants at it! so no obstructions you proceed.

hmmm russia, china? America? hmmmm who'd you contact? they all seem fair, just and unbiased to a fast profit, so at least one time in the sinario America would be on list. after all selling their mothers to be best, making slums bigger than the wealthy area's? who else would be fake n daft enough to sell the human bio mass.. ermm, detension camps build all over america? they put them secretly in other peoples countries? looks like we got a biznes offer here lads.. put that probe away no need to scare any one here.(the bio mass is coming back to bite you in the *** is it not?)

(check out the scientific findings on you tube..theyre exstensive and offer absolute proof that making a mystery is pritty darned easy lmao!!)

now then, to haisten to the mystery and the proof of you tube, WW2 German science had stealth planes, B52's and several others built, they didnt have the fuel to keep them up very long, theres actualy proof on them here and there, or at least very clever fakes that fooled the real folks that actualy know..and built them second hand.. but any way, these prove (aparently) theres a huge american conspiracy to sell human bio mass to the aliens, after all what are the concentrasion camps for? (ermm to imprison foreign peoples in the country at the time of war, a long shot but hey not as long as to sell people to aliens).
in reply, the other conspiricy agents are defending with a 'the american goverment is defending the planit with telsa tecnology, every now and then they actualy knock a ufo outa the sky yeh! and reverse enginere the findings, where else does tecnology come from?' (earl from kuntucky also admits his brother is his father and he thinks shingles is god's way of warning about taking the piggies out back for recreasion, earl if your reading dont worry your fictitous, secondly..sheeeesh you can read! and yehhh yu sister!).

so, the bottom line is, if your bum hurts after a night out, eather tell you were ermm, you knowed up the rear by unknowns, or make up a ufo? or keep stum of course.
the other option is, dont actualy visit marlein at the trailor site with less than 20 dollers...


why would you only attack the USA with only one ship? when you could go to wall mart in any third world country? hmmmm dubious as i am, would Bush sell folks for the fame and glory of power and tecnology? would you? hmmm, scarey bum probing earth mystic report from yours truly...(omg!! theres a mother ship the size of a planet with thousands of small crafts! nooooo the probes are big!!! and no one with a telescope can see it it, that is clever).

so why get a strobe light any way? 


in all fairnes i want to add my bit. life orinated from a pulp of green algea goo that floated here? how the fe*k did any one still think we are the center of the universe? so, it sort of mildy implies we're some where inbetween the start and ermm, present end of a longgggggggggg sticky goo trial that arrives here and floats on offf and away..
statistics state alien life is more probable than god, and that god is actualy 'probable' (what makes it real is how many people will say so..dohhh earls department?).

soooo.........it is a posability? even the aboriginanies painted ufo images, or at least as far as carbon dating is concerned. then again? who can you beleive? early from kentucky? marlein from the trailor recreasion park? your goverement? or even the church? they all have agendas.(even the pope said, cant we just forget about? hmm perks of the job obviosly..why are we worried about aliens? havent we got enough at home?) the TV never lies, hallle-yulla, i sined you my bretheren, i bought a condo, limo and jet and a few hores with your donasions..i'm repenting tonight in an effert to make 3 times more on this night than any other night..and the internet is a big free offer, that only costs..and for a further fee and cost some more...


folding space and time, although a theretical issue, isnt it just a little way to big? i think some one wants to build a banger bigger than any one elses tbh! so big the neighbouring galaxies will think..awww heck! theyve gone! lol.(thats assuming a triple A battery unit and a few inexspencive compoinets cant do it..presumptions hu?)

statistically, if the mother ship arrived on wednesday 15'th june, out popped Endlfurth with his best shiney anul probe and said heyyy yu!! have weee got a deal for you?..
50 percent the planet would die over the next few days, 25 percent in the actual panic, and the rest in fear suicides.. or so it's said, and not by earl.
(i think that would entice any goverment dont you? populasion problem over with. or even hint at a resolsion within the subject, or just use a bitta rubber?).

sleep tight folks..keep the lube near, if the aliens dont shaft you the bankers will....and charge you for any lube.


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## StarHalo (Aug 5, 2012)

It's probably a good thing that you began that post by defending drunk people; glossing over the grammatical apocalypse of the rest of it, a few points -

- You can put a webcam on an ant farm and know more about the ants than they do themselves, without being physically present. And a sufficiently advanced culture would have means of observation that are themselves sentient; their "webcam" would make decisions for itself that would further the observers' relevant means and goals.

- The Nazis didn't have stealth technology and didn't need it; you don't need to evade radar if you're faster than anything the enemy can respond with (see _SR-71_).

- Sightings of forest demons and succubi were replaced with sightings of UFOs and aliens as the 20th century wore on; expect UFOs to be superseded by updated and more relevant monsters as the information age unfolds..


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## hoffmyster86 (Aug 5, 2012)

yes agreed about the grammer, my old teachers were a lot older after lol.. i do have a lagit exscuse though lol.

it seems there is a need for the mystical being thats coming to get you...

and the alien cam may well be the bum probe? its job completed it vacates, or the new arrival needs a hoast lol..its humour based with a bit of trruth thrown in lol.

in short theyd have just taken over...or, there would protocals based on ethics. (like leave them to it theyre dead any way).


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## blasterman (Aug 5, 2012)

I stay away from conspiracy stuff - too may cameras and cell phones out there 

Purely intesting from a science perspective, but if anybody wants some interesting reads research Alien / UFO encounters before 1950, which was about the time mass media started skewing mass hysteria. StarHalo makes some valid points, but when you go back before 1950, and especially into the 18th, 19th, and early 20th century UFO reports were much stranger and yet seemed to make more sense than they do today. With out mass media, the person reporting the encounter simply did their best to describe what they saw and seldom involved the glowing spheres and triangles we hear about today. That's where the real research lies.

I still get a kick out of incidents like the 'UFO's over Phoenix' thing where 100 people are standing around pointing at the lights and thinking it's the mother ship while the one kid with the binoculars being ignored is trying to tell everybody he's watching A-10's dropping flares. More fun to believe in the mother ship.


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## Lee1959 (Aug 5, 2012)

Watch the whole clip... Dare you not to laugh 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxOfk0NpgfY


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## hoffmyster86 (Aug 5, 2012)

theres one clip on you tube which i thought was the best of the best, a couple go missing in some mountings, the vidio was found, was hell of a job too.. alas a few 'hints' but a serious doubt to it. the creature apears at the end looking into the camera..if not? its still here and its still hungy!!!

regaurding the 50's i think the paranoa and any justified fears or the new nucular race sparked off the cold war, if we had a ufo they had a ufo, they had psychics we had two before then, the rest falls into place. one of the articles i came accross caught my eye because it was a picture of WW2 russian tank top, but at a strange angle so i read it, hmm, all about this ufo they found around some russian area 57 or whatever. was sooo corny. tbh though, a stale mate beats the alternatives does it not?

now then, the only sense i found was some airforse guy, 'in the trade of' as thy say simply exsplained 'the publick wont beleive it if they were told straight and shown point blank' followed by 'we're having a secret test flight, how do we tell 2 million people its a 'secret' test flight next week at 10 pm? hell of a good point isnt it.

i've seen one really recently, i started to walk around to get a better veiw and it disapeered, took nearly 30 seconds to find it...street lights on a tv arial...looked exsactly like a mililon other concrete evidence of ufo's. yawn it was disapointing lol.

(i might just add, with this kind of euforia isnt advertising really cashing in on the average freeked out idiot? or is it really just for entertainment lol).

in a nut shell on the euforia, orsen wells broadcast of war of the worlds, did it really cause a mass panic? hmm did he really baracade the doors...the rest adds up nicely.

i've been in a similar situasion where a known new's broadcaster apeared and anounced the 8 minute warning, the young lady i was with anoused 'what do want to do with your last 8 minutes? me? or panic?' best hour of my life lmao!! but, yes, its a shoker! it was some tv show,she knew, i didnt, but sheeesh it put the wind up me.


Blasterman..
i'd of thought the old tesla stuff would have started any real influences, then add a tv and radio in every home...sheesh thats a big impact.


starhalo.. the evidense and exstensive bombings directly because of intel seriously indicates that they did.. at the end of the war scientists were the going comadity, they had knowladge that couldnt be gained untill the atrosities. America being one of the major 'benifactors' of 'missing scientists'. the favourate stories involved a bomb at all cost site, one with regular sightings of a craft that could climb verticle at hi speed, and fly off at faster than the alies could think up.. the area was indeedly levaled good and proper. this is all 'comman' knowladge nowadays.. or i thought it was. (and as far as you can beleive any of it).


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## StarHalo (Aug 6, 2012)

hoffmyster86 said:


> it seems there is a need for the mystical being thats coming to get you...



A poetically accurate statement, quite redeeming.

You merely need to put yourself in the shoes of an advanced race to work out how the reality differs from Hollywood - you might be aware of the Australian rodent _capybara_; there are probably quite a few of them at your local zoo, but you aren't really aware of what's going on with them, or that much about their species, there are probably capybara experts you could talk to if you had to write an article about them. And this is most likely how an advanced race feels about you; you're one among many critters on rocks in space, and just like the capybara, you have drama and struggles and life and death situations, but the more advanced creatures have other things to do, many people to see about many things..

As for Nazi tech, the subject normally revolves around the V2 rocket and rocket tech in general, which is not profound in an era where you can buy a rocket kit at the local craft store. The subject of stealth comes up regarding the stealth-looking Horten Ho 229, which was not actually designed to be stealthy, merely fast - the British had a massive radar array set right on the banks of the English Channel, so incoming German fighter planes would be detected easily, and could be intercepted well before they crossed over land. The German solution was a fighter that was so fast that it would go sailing right over the radar and straight on to the British airfields where the RAF were still scrambling to get their planes off the ground, which the 229 would have succeeded in doing. 

The other, lesser-known secret tech fact surrounding the 229 is that Horten planned a much larger bomber on the same design, the Ho 18, which was approved for production in early 1945 to complete its prime task at the start of 1946 - to fly escorted by 229s across the Atlantic and deliver a nuclear bomb on New York City.

And here's the 229 now - the wide-open intake nacelles on the front are decidedly not radar-defeating:


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## hoffmyster86 (Aug 6, 2012)

hmmm intresting there thank you starhalo. have you any stuff on the nazi 'scarer' devices designed to put the wind up troops, the sort of affect that the chinese lanterns have as they go over towns, also 'disapeered'.

there's only cubic design and a material difference there..well, in my apinion lol. there was umpteen other projects on the go like sonic death rays, the problems with those were by the time the thing charged and discharged the target was in a totaly diferent locasion by then, a few others untill we start in to the realms or earth mystics and comic strip horror stories.

regarding the alien thing, yes, i think they'd wear gloves some how...i think it would help if they turned up tbh.. theres this thing about it taking at least three generasions to change things, racismn for instance, the rift started way back with martin lucer king and co, so its near on three generasions later and the same o same o occurs, on another note its amazing how all these people who cannot cope with change are quick on the draw to buy the new in thing company, or how we cope with national catastrophies etc. i think we would cope, maybe a couple months of moaning by the oldies, the young folks and kids would want to play the games without batting an eyelid.

i think fuel was the main issue with the older jets, maybe thats why it was the 60's before they started being of use?

all food for thought.


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## HighlanderNorth (Aug 6, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> It's probably a good thing that you began that post by defending drunk people; glossing over the grammatical apocalypse of the rest of it, a few points -
> 
> - You can put a webcam on an ant farm and know more about the ants than they do themselves, without being physically present. And a sufficiently advanced culture would have means of observation that are themselves sentient; their "webcam" would make decisions for itself that would further the observers' relevant means and goals.
> 
> ...





I wholeheartedly agree with sentence #1!! LMAO

But sentence #3 is partially incorrect. You're right in that the Nazis didnt invent any stealth weapons, but the British unintentionally did though. The awesome Dehavilland Mosquito, which was made of balsa wood and plywood since it initially wasnt a popular project, and they needed aluminum for fighters at the time the Mosquito was being produced. Apparently the wood made the radar signature of the Mosquito much smaller than it actually was.(I'll be back to the Mosquito as it ties into the next point)

Secondly, the SR71 was NOT able to out-fly any adversary. By the mid 60's, the same time the SR71 was being put into operation, the Soviets had developed new SAM's that flew at mach 4. Plus, at abouyt that same time, we were supposed to produce the awesome B-70 Valkyrie, which wouldve been about as fast as the SR71, and it was a bomber, but the Kennedy administration killed the program, but because that program scared the daylights out of the Soviets, they developed the MIG-25 to be able to catch and shoot down the B-70. It couldve also caught the SR-71, and shot it down. The Sr71 was usually able to outfly enemy planes, but we still used the old U2 more often, and unlike the SR71 which has been retired for almost 20 years(for the 2nd time), the U2 is still in service.

But that brings us back to the Dehavilland Mosquito, which unlike the SR-71, was able to out-fly its enemies all the time....


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## Vinniec5 (Aug 6, 2012)

A little tech info on the SR-71. The MIG-25 could never catch a blackbird from behind ever. The SR-71 was designed to cruise at Mach 3.2 the M25 2.8-2.9 with bursts to 3.2 that caused overspeed permament damage to the turbines. Blackbird just lights its afterburners and gets 100-200 knots just by lighting the fires and no one has ever said how fast they've pushed beyond 3.2. that's how it avoided Sam sites between the top of the line ECM pod on board and the ability to change speed quickly it was very hard for SAM missiles to track and destrory it. Even the Israelis tried to hit it with our missiles during the 70's 6 DAY WAR and couldn't ( they didn't know who or what it was)

Blackbird was the first operational aircraft that used stealth, she was designed 10 years earlier but was 100x smaller radar cross section than the F-14 Tomcat and its RamJet tech Designed by Ben Rich could be used up to mach-6 today

Kelly Johnson was a genious and so far ahead of his time, if we built a Blackbird from scratch today people would think it's a crashed Alien Aircraft 

The Blackbird test flight patch says 4,000+ MPH. Ever notice the X-15 rocket plane? the front nose is from the SR-71 and it went mach 7 in the 60's. some things will stay classified for a long time


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## hoffmyster86 (Aug 6, 2012)

so the alien red hering has a purpose after all, the ifs and 'R's unfold into an even bigger status quo and no one really knows lol..

has any one seen any shots or clips of pilots that eject at hi speeds..eeek itsy alien! lol. then theres the deformaties of child birth, so weird and wanderfuls there too.. but in the back of every ones mind? what if?

does we move onto ghosts? dare we? if ones real it certainly implies the other is too...interdimentional beings?

i think theyre all age old too. but wher did the myth come from?


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## alpg88 (Aug 6, 2012)

Vinniec5 said:


> A little tech info on the SR-71. The MIG-25 could never catch a blackbird from behind ever. The SR-71 was designed to cruise at Mach 3.2 the M25 2.8-2.9 with bursts to 3.2 that caused overspeed permament damage to the turbines.


sr71 outran a missile, true story. funny thing it was made of titanium bough from USSR

amongst soviet pilots mig25 was called flying supermarket, it had about 100l of pure alcohol for deicing


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## StarHalo (Aug 7, 2012)

hoffmyster86 said:


> does we move onto ghosts? dare we?



And that would be the ultimate question - if a race is truly advanced, don't they eventually reach a point where they do away with having physical forms? Imagine how uninterested you'd be in the capybara if it were a creature so primitive that it's not even on the same plane of existence..


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## HighlanderNorth (Aug 7, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> And that would be the ultimate question - if a race is truly advanced, don't they eventually reach a point where they do away with having physical forms? Imagine how uninterested you'd be in the capybara if it were a creature so primitive that it's not even on the same plane of existence..




Maybe super-advanced being could eventually evolve into a non-physical life form, as I dont know enough about the actual physics of this subject to be able to say that it wouldnt be possible.

But Capybaras will always be cool though!


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## HighlanderNorth (Aug 7, 2012)

The question of whether or not aliens will or ever have visited Earth comes down to one thing IMO. That would be distance. If you consider the unbelievable vastness of space, and take into consideration the distances between the nearest solar system in our galaxy that "might" have a star with a planet(s) that is close enough to its star(s) to support life, then you take into the consideration the chance that life there has evolved intelligent beings, and that those beings are MUCH, MUCH more advanced than us, then you realize that the distance is just too great for them to get here, even if they wanted to come here. 

If we just looked at it from a basis of average distances, considering that our galaxy is around 100,000 light years across, then lets say there is a system that supports life, and has uber-advanced life forms, chances are that they are going to be 10,000-50,000 light years away or more. How can any being possibly cover that kind of distance? Even if they could go 5 times the speed of light, which is supposedly impossible, it would still take 1,000 - 5,000 years for them to get here.......

The only other ways that we have dreamed up as a possibility for long distance space travel involve warping space time, or worm holes, etc. If they are much more advanced than we, then either they have thought of 'other' options, but odds are, the distances just cant be traveled in a reasonable amount of time, and even if they could shorten it to 50 years or so, why would they want to spend that much of their life traveling in a space ship of limited size? Maybe they live 20 times longer than we do, or maybe they can put themselves into suspended animation during the journey so they dont age...

Not to mention the odds that they would just happen to choose a course that brought them here, when the galaxy is so large that the odds of happening to find this particular planet is kinda like looking for a needle in a galaxy sized haystack!


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## alpg88 (Aug 7, 2012)

i watched few episodes of antient aliens on history channel, some things they showed really makes you think.


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## StarHalo (Aug 7, 2012)

HighlanderNorth said:


> the distance is just too great for them to get here, even if they wanted to come here.



Keep in mind that more advanced beings would have levels of energy at their disposal that aren't even physically possible from planetary life; harnessing the power of a star, a pulsar, galactic movement, etc would make space-time-ripping levels of power accessible, if not routine. If warping or wormholes are possible at all, they would need only a short amount of time after acquiring the energy to experiment and eventually master the techniques. They would most likely also be masters of efficiency, so transporting large objects would be pretty rare; the aforementioned "webcam"/observer mentioned in my earlier posts wouldn't need to be any larger than an amoeba - this would be easy to move and simple to [self-]maintain.


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## hoffmyster86 (Aug 7, 2012)

i think we're still thinking and exsisting around the realms of 2-D, we asume energy, masses of, no bodies etc, but in reality we're still only babes in the woods of science, to the general public theres only been a couple of actual breakthroughs, and the transister is one of them, the rest has been a remix, a resize, or a new way to do the same.

the generasion gap thing, to me, indicates that basically, the vidio game along, the kids loved the new thing, the middle bracket were sort of starting to feel the stress of life, accepted it under what tv shows presented as the how it works, whilst back the 50-80 year old branch they all thought it was bad, couldnt fathom it etc, simply just couldnt comprehend or accept it..
apply that to the development of science..and i dont mean old scientists cant.. i mean some things are just way past perseiving untill the protejay is born and seems to just figure it out like it was narmal.

a step further would be, could we actualy see other life forms? as in a cuttle fish can see its preys electrical life energy type thing, but we cant, we see the materail with light reflecting from it.. if other things are on a diferent plane on the lines of a 3-d sense instead of the 2-d. we wouldnt know they were there, and they wouldnt know we were here, but both coexsisting..thats without going into dimensions..and that was a victorian exsplanasion of ghosts.
(dont worry thats as far as i go on that lol).

at the end of the day one of the theries is all particles co exsist at some point in 'a time or place' in every other bit of the universe, so travel could, again in theory be as simple as 'faising into' the other 'body' at some other point that we share the particles with. that could actualy be as simple as a simple curcuit device lol.


oh, and dont forget people studied molecules for a whole life.. plants and one cell'd organisms? if one stood up and recipricated a sequence, then seemed to recipricate in some form of responce and reaction.. a code then forms, even you'd be intrested in that document lol. an ameaba protesting at the condisions in the petri dish..lolol.


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## StarHalo (Aug 7, 2012)

hoffmyster86 said:


> could we actualy see other life forms? as in a cuttle fish can see its preys electrical life energy type thing, but we cant, we see the materail with light reflecting from it..



If we're talking extra dimensions, no, a being who could move through higher dimensions could appear and disappear from three-dimensional space at will. It wouldn't be that you couldn't see him, rather he would not be "there" at all..



hoffmyster86 said:


> an ameaba protesting at the condisions in the petri dish..lolol.



That would be the beauty of camouflauging an observer as something that's expected to be seen in a particular environment; you could look directly at the "webcam amoeba" in a microscope, and it wouldn't have to do a thing to hide itself (and it would in fact be looking at you..)


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## hoffmyster86 (Aug 8, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> If we're talking extra dimensions, no, a being who could move through higher dimensions could appear and disappear from three-dimensional space at will. It wouldn't be that you couldn't see him, rather he would not be "there" at all..
> 
> no not another dimension, in 2 D talk thats another place.. i meant literally same plane of exsistance, only sort of faized diferently, like the all particles vibrate to every other part of the universe, so actualy the one and all is the same one but in diferent places ' at the same time', more like a two time exsistance only its the same time line within the same dimension.


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## StarHalo (Aug 8, 2012)

hoffmyster86 said:


> sort of faized differently



You don't have to do anything that complicated; it's only a matter of knowing the precise viewing angle of what's looking at you and then projecting what is behind you, either on a protective screen or on your exterior. The defense department has been working on this very technology for some time, the idea being something along the lines of a tank that has displays for every surface - such a tank could sit right out in the open against a hillside and would be virtually impossible to see.


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## Wrend (Aug 11, 2012)

Time dilation, potentially.


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## hoffmyster86 (Aug 11, 2012)

can you imagine the state of the internet between alternate nows?

sorry but please to leave no bad feedback, due to intertimentional transport times you can apreciate your money has indeedly disapeered, can we send you a replacement?


there would have to be a comman standards body, and legislasions on conducts for dubious obductions and probe dimensions, the standards of snobbery would become so complicated that the even more poor wouldnt understand how unimportant they are hahaha..

illigal alien? the red necks would get a wee bit confused..

the trailor trash and essex gals would feel weel at home...

and the question from your boss, why are you late??! ermmm abducted by aliens?? heheheh always cheers them up lol.

the pitza guy? is this number 147? dohhh rong dimension!


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## StarHalo (Aug 11, 2012)

hoffmyster86 said:


> can you imagine the state of the internet between alternate nows?



In one alternate timeline, there was no Roman Church or Crusades, the people continued in the Grecian tradition of reasoning and discovery; for them, as there was no Dark Ages, the Internet as we know it now was achieved around 500 AD. 



hoffmyster86 said:


> there would have to be a comman standards body



The future of the interface is no interface - you know there already exist cochlear implants for deaf people, which convert an electrical signal to audible sound in the brain, and crude eye-cams for the blind which give sight; it's only a matter of time before these technologies become wireless and recreational, and more complete - why stop at sight and sound when you can manipulate all five senses for the complete experience? This means you'll be sitting in a boring office meeting, and just for a moment you will close your eyes, and with little concentration, you will be certainly and without question on a beach in the Carribean, there will be nothing in your experience that indicates in any way that this is fake. And then on opening your eyes, you're back in the meeting, just as real as the beach was before..

Where this gets interesting is in the interaction of people; rather than reading someone's blog post, you can physically experience what they're trying to convey; the moving speech about hunger in Ethiopia will become a lot more moving when you feel yourself crawling your 65-pound frame across the scorching African sand, debilitated and disfigured with hunger. Or the protester trying to explain the horror of police brutality, which becomes far more pressing when you feel the onrush of people, the sting in your eyes and lungs, the club coming down repeatedly, until you're sure you'll need to go to the hospital. And rather than a news report about a terrorist attack, you will instead feel a great swell of fear and grieving, something horrible just happened somewhere.. At this point it's no longer the Internet, rather it becomes the noosphere, the domain of human collective experience shared by all. Good luck regulating that..


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## hoffmyster86 (Aug 13, 2012)

theyre already using mind interface, have been for some time with parapelegics etc, my only concern is the ethics of consumerismn, 'we wont put no adverts directly into your want brain parts'..etc...!

tis a thought to where we'd be without the stupids in controll.. like did we really get people on the moon? when you concider the whats n why's its wander how as a species we managed to breed! after all two hole? that should have confused it to begin with lol.. ahh yes greed. thats that exsplained.

bing..see cindy live now blasted all accross your brain box when your driving, followed by 16 about blanks and 27 demends to buy this that and the other, all free and all with 52megabite booster want want want it booster implants!

i see nobody liked the idia of those thought transmitters at the pictures, the ones 'to aid the film' and 'to make you enjoy it more'.. sheeesh i dont want to eat my own feceas and 'enjoy it'..!!! i certainly dont want to lose any control over a 2 bit killer B movie, hell! you'd enjoy watching a black screen for a few hours and actualy love paying even more for it?? and they couldnt see the moral issues involved? hmmmm and they have lots uh money to play with? lmao!!!

help!!!!


on the plus side, brain linked to a pc? that would open up some avenues, flash thought transfered and received, now that would be some hot conection.


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## StarHalo (Aug 13, 2012)

Yep, everything that can go wrong with a computer connection will carry on in people's minds now, issues of advertising, hacking, etc. And the goal isn't just to link the brain to a PC, but rather to link all the brains. Giving people the option to be connected to everyone, everywhere, that's the noosphere.

Also, this is the final era in which people drive themselves, in the near future, driving will be an enthusiast hobby only done by a small minority of people on specifically marked outlying roads. Once the cars drive themselves and network with one another, accidents will fall by at least 90%, and most people would prefer someone else drive on the freeway anyway, so they can text, read, etc.


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## HighlanderNorth (Aug 13, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> In one alternate timeline, there was no Roman Church or Crusades, the people continued in the Grecian tradition of reasoning and discovery; for them, as there was no Dark Ages, the Internet as we know it now was achieved around 500 AD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I dont want to turn this into either a political or religious discussion, but the Greeks certainly had religion, and some still looked to learn more about science. Same with the Romans more or less, and they were religious too. The situation that stopped science and progress in its tracks wasnt Christianity or any religion for that matter, it was the fall of the Roman Empire, and the dark ages, followed a breakdown in society. None of what happened in Europe, including the fall of the Roman empire was caused by Christianity or any religion for that matter. In fact, the Roman empire continued progressing before Christianity and after. many of the greatest scientific minds in human history were religious. I've met several people through my father who worked at a large multinational chemical company, and I've met people who helped invent some of the top products by 2 of these companies, and most of those chemists or chemical engineers go to either church or synagogue every week! There are lots of reasons that humans have made bad decisions in the past 10,000 years, and it cant all or mostly be blamed on any one religion, or on religion in general.

Anyway, I've heard many top scientists from many different disciplines come up with just as many theories about parallel universes, parallel dimensions, etc., and maybe some of it is true, maybe some of it isnt. Humans are fallible. I cant count the number of times I've read articles or watched documentaries over the years about scientific theory, only later to find out that they had been proven wrong. The scientists who initially came up with rock solid theories about what we'd find on the other planets in our solar system were usually proven to be very far off. Thats why science needs conclusive proof. The bottom line is, science is what we use to learn about everything around us, and how we eventually explain everything we dont understand, but what it all comes down to is that scientists are human, and humans make mistakes. Look up "Phlogistan". That was a scientific idea that was accepted to be absolutely true without ever being proven, and humans allowed their egos and pride to get in the way to such a degree that they refused to believe in anything else, and whenever someone would come up with an alternate theory that seemed to undermine the "_Phlogistan_" myth, other preeminent scientists with more power, money and influence would do everything they could to undermine their work, to keep their failed ideas intact, mainly due to ego, and because of personal gain. This kept chemistry and important areas of science from moving forward for about 150-200 years! 

So, to err isnt necessarily a product of religion, secularism, or science, its a product of being human.

Back to the OP. Do most people here really think that there is a way to travel the vast distances of space in a fairly short time, and do you believe its likely that there is a race of aliens who are so advanced that they have that technology, and thirdly, how the heck would they figure out that we were even here to begin with? Radio signals from Earth havent traveled _that far_?


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## StarHalo (Aug 14, 2012)

HighlanderNorth said:


> So, to err isnt necessarily a product of religion, secularism, or science, its a product of being human.
> 
> Back to the OP. Do most people here really think that there is a way to travel the vast distances of space in a fairly short time, and do you believe its likely that there is a race of aliens who are so advanced that they have that technology, and thirdly, how the heck would they figure out that we were even here to begin with? Radio signals from Earth havent traveled _that far_?



Some salient points, but I think as a peasant living in the Dark Ages who might have a few unique ideas, the reaction of the local clergy would be one serious factor in deciding to say anything..

We already know that space-time comes apart when exposed to the power of an exploding star, so the starting point would be to recreate that level of energy - the good news is that there are lots of ways to harvest energy in a big and diverse universe, the bad news is that if you screw it up, it's more than enough energy to destroy a planet, too. As for other, more advanced races, it's almost mathematically impossible for them to not exist, and in large numbers; the universe is 13.7 billion years old, our Earth only began life processes in the last four billion years, and our sentient race has only been here for a million years. So we're extremely late to the party, a similar sentient race originating from only the age of the dinosaurs would be many times older than homo sapiens. They'd know we're here because they'd have the ability to saturate vast expanses of life-potential space with surveillance/observer technology. A star with some proto-planets? Best to teleport in a handful of observer devices and let them report back if anything pops up in the next few billion years..


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## eh4 (Aug 18, 2012)

It may be that intelligence goes hand on hand with reality, that pond scum progressing to self awareness is as natural and common place as the elements falling together.
And we might be an aberration with our technology, dolphins and whales might well be progessing more slowly and naturally towards super intelligence... And on to discovering that reality is made out of information (and language), and some day singing themselves into a parallel world, non-corporeal observation, materializing on other worlds in appropriate bodies (Yeti as alien biological survival suit?)
...Not the least of which would be a species developing awareness to the point that they accessed universal mind through their own holographic microcosm of that mind.
Mystics have been speaking of these possibilities for thousands of years.
In any case, it seems very unlikely that we would be visited by Outer space travellers unless they were microbes flash frozen in chunks of exploded worlds, or else hi tech synthetic drones, or space ships made as artificial worlds for travelling many thousands of years -maybe with frozen passengers or just the instructions for growing passengers at destination.

Inner space while more fantastic, seems far more likely a way of travel for intelligent visitors... If intelligence is part of the fabric of reality, then isolated tiny worlds like ours might be as easy to find as typing "pretentious, signifying monkeys making messes" and tapping the "Feeling Lucky" button.

Dreamtime, fairies, djinn, angels and demons, modern sightings galore, something is going on.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."


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## hoffmyster86 (Aug 19, 2012)

i think apart from the atrocities of the dark ages..well the 'olden times' etc, the greek made the maths we still use today, even the old arhimedies screw is the basis for a shed load of tecnology..another gree thing from 1000's years ago.. trig etc.. even the shua lins were at the triganomitry and start charting a few thousand years before people were burned at the stake for dareing asume we arnt the center of the universe on a flat landscape ..


back to the dimension thing, if you twang a guitar string and whatch, its not visable in places but you start to see it vibrate in a solid line... is that a basic strings theory line?
we're in the 'solid' line part of the vibrasion.

inteligence is whats left after the lesser mortals have 'equoled the play' to their own lower leval, or whats aloud b ythose in a posision to 'choose' whats aloud. what we can perseive without it being deemed of the devil (dark ages) or inasanity or even 'psychic' is only a prograsion of two things, hi IQ (and not the one that involves seeing shakespeer or reading the write plays lol) and the opertunity to 'progress'.
e.g. my dear old nan...holding the fone upside down and screeming at the top of her voise at this 'poop new thing' lmao! strait up.. she was born before WW1..yes 19 hundred and something WW1. to her she had zero concept.
today? if some bloke exsplained how a vortex can be cascadeded into a self perpetuating energy sourse that could break the bounds of time and space...you'd lock him up because its babbling bullshhit?

point one (the usual replies of time travel) if you go back and kill your own father/ansester you could no longer exsist..
stage two is a bright spark realises ahhhh so if you didnt exsist how can you kill your own father!! nerrr! and so 'who's on first base?' yes he is...who is actualy on first base but that has nothing to with what theyre slapping each other for lol.

point 2.. ok, you left one time and entered another, if your dad disapeers your still there because you left the other time zone? so you'd still be in the past looking at the corpse..

both are 2-D discusions based on the physical reality that you perseive, due to your class and statous as well as your IQ.. like Steven Hawkins being well in another class of understanding..200 hundred years ago he'd be dead because the pope didnt like him..sort of thing.

a 1000 years ago sat next to homer...well, theyd have said the same o same posably 14 dimension but only 11 can be proven lolol..

think about it, the mayons and predisesors were stone age, as in flint age civilasasions that rulled pritty much all of the americas at one time, it was only desise from the musket barers that beet them..(yes the desise).
so how could a cave man with a flint axe make a 1000 year civilisasion? or a greek tokin toga guy come up with triganomitry etc....

in our dreams lies the answer, our dreams are captured and shaped...but in the freedom we grow.


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## AZPops (Aug 19, 2012)

Over the past few years I've seen a few enter our atmosphere! I've watched a light/s traveling acoss our sky, then for no apparent reason, disappear!

My dogs, who do not bark for no reason. Would look at a spot in the sky, then viciously bark! When that happens, I can't help but wonder what they're seeing.

There are times, I find myself on a different area of a project from where I was standing previously. My dog/s would look at me like where've you been?

I just wish one of them would give me the numbers to the lotto. You know, for my time! It's the least they can do!


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## eh4 (Aug 22, 2012)

It's funny that claiming to have seen 'ufos' can trash you in public opinion and yet anyone who spends some time watching the sky away from city light pollution is going to see some things that they can't honestly identify. 

There's the general evolution of an idea of any controversy; first its ignored, then its ridiculed, then its violently opposed, and finally accepted as common knowledge. -We see that throughout human' and other social animal's behavior.


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## hoffmyster86 (Aug 22, 2012)

very good point that, everyone is very quick to dismis anything and everything, i suspect its part of the too many rats in a small space syndrome, they have to belittle everyone else in some vane hope that at least someone will beleive theyre bigguh dan you lol..

regaurding the UFO, well, tecnically if you cant exsplain it then its 'u' for unexsplained.. f.. o.. flying object, so in a sence its taking the mick out of the aspersion casters with their own spin. (hmm last laugh maybe?)

i've seen a few weird things over the years, i dare say all were exsplained sooner or later, if they do arrive, brill..lol a new series will brake out lol. it'll certainly change the game a bit, then maybe the big boss's up there in untouchable land will realise that yes theyre only one person lol..

that or the lizard leaders tale is true and theyve already landed hehehe, tbh, most people just need the idia put in their head at the right time and one way or the other they'll see the lizard lol.(usualy the asperive casters from the couch sette's.)

at the end of the day i can see the sinario where the aliens landed, put on a good show, they even brought a nintendo and a new app for the fone, but the ones they met couldnt handle what they were seeing, so shouted belittling abuse at the idiots wearing a costume untill they went away..probably thinking ''is my fly open?''


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## StarHalo (Sep 8, 2012)

Recently had a digital phone line installed (a land line that actually goes through the internet connection), it has its own router which sits in the bedroom, which I've found throws off quite a bit of RF noise that isn't pleasant for AM radio listening; since there's no wireless interface on this router, it should be a pretty simple operation to build a Faraday cage for it, some basic aluminum screen from the hardware store stapled to a simple wood frame from the craft store, then ground it through a third-prong. So I go over to YouTube to get some pointers on building RF shielding, and here are some sample comments from the videos on the subject:

"i have been experiencing this harassment﻿ since the 90's... if you google on synthetic telepathy and mind control, you will understand how it's being done and it's purposes."


"OMG thank you, this is exactly what i﻿ was looking for. I unplug my router at night because i can't sleep but i got 23 other WiFi signals coming through my bedroom walls. I was gonna buy the shielding paint but it's still way too pricey."


"Update: Another 5 months have passed, and I remain free of heart﻿ arrhythmias, being free of WiFi in my house."


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## eh4 (Sep 11, 2012)

woah, people will say anything but those quotes do give me pause for a min.


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## Wrend (Sep 11, 2012)

My new WLAN router and Nexus 7 seem to interfere pretty often with my wireless keyboard and mouse... Of course I did set it up to use the maximum amount of bandwidth/channels.


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## H-Man (Sep 11, 2012)

I laugh at the RFphobics when it is claimed that non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation is significantly dangerous while the person eats a banana. The banana is more radioactive then the cellphone.


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## StarHalo (Sep 30, 2012)

True story, bro; An article in The Atlantic:

*Tin Foil Hats Actually Make it Easier for the Government to Track Your Thoughts*

"_In 2005, a group of MIT students, prodded by "a desire to play with some expensive equipment," tested the effectiveness of foil helmets at blocking various radio frequencies. Using two layers of Reynolds aluminum foil, they constructed three helmet designs, dubbed the Classical, the Fez, and the Centurion, and then looked at the strength of the transmissions between a radio-frequency signal generator and a receiver antenna placed on various parts of their subjects' bare and helmet-covered heads.
_
_The helmets shielded their wearers from radio waves over most of the tested spectrum (YouTube user Mrfixitrick likewise demonstrates the blocking power of his foil toque against his wireless modem) but, surprisingly, amplified certain frequencies: those in the 2.6 Ghz ( allocated for mobile communications and broadcast satellites) and 1.2 Ghz (allocated for aeronautical radionavigation and space-to-Earth and space-to-space satellites) bands._"


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## EZO (Oct 2, 2012)

Rebuttal to the MIT Tin Foil Hat study

Build one for your self and test it out! It's the only way to really know!

Please note: _"It can't be stressed enough how important it is to have the shiny side pointing out. This is needed because the shiny side is most reflective to psychotronic radiation, while the dull side can actually, in certain environmental conditions, absorb it."_


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## Ken_McE (Oct 8, 2012)

HighlanderNorth said:


> The question of whether or not aliens will or ever have visited Earth comes down to one thing IMO. That would be distance. ...you realize that the distance is just too great for them to get here, even if they wanted to come here.



You and I could not cross that distance, but there is nothing in physics as we know it that says it cannot be done.



> ... lets say there is a system that supports life, ... chances are that they are going to be 10,000-50,000 light years away or more. How can any being possibly cover that kind of distance?



It would be hard for an individual, however a society of some kind could take it on as a group project.



> Even if they could go 5 times the speed of light, which is supposedly impossible, it would still take 1,000 - 5,000 years for them to get here.......



You don't need to travel faster than the speed of light to travel between the stars, any more than you need to go faster than the speed of sound to cross the oceans. What you need is patience.

Let's assume that rather than going five times the speed of light they average a measly 1/10th of C, a speed that physics allows anyone who is willing to work for it. That would give you a travel time of of ten to fifty thousand years. You and I can't do that, but a society or a machine could.



> ... even if they could shorten it to 50 years or so, why would they want to spend that much of their life traveling?



They do it because after their thirteenth millenium they are getting bored, bored, BORED. They do it as an act of penance. They do it as community service. They do it to skip out on their thousand year sentence in The Agonizer. They do it to pay for some *really* old parking tickets. They do it for science. They take one for the team. They do it because they lost the coin toss. They do it because they won the coin toss. They do it because they were designed and hatched to do that one thing, and do it well. They do it because it is what they have always done. There are thousands of perfectly good motivations available. It doesn't matter (to us) why they do it. 



> why would they want to spend that much of their life traveling in a ...ship of limited size?



Who says they are awake and walking around?

You put yourself on ice. You meditate. You hibernate. You ruminate. You estivate. You alter yourself into a tree while you travel and grok the flow of wind and water on stone (It's not for everyone). You finish your PHD thesis. You consider the writings of* [email protected]∛! *the poet. You master a field of study, or maybe all of them. You slow down your time sense to 1/10,000 of its usual rate, crank up your sense of wonder to 100 times its usual rate, stand by the porthole and laugh at the mad whirl of stars tumbling by. You spend the time tripping the light fantastic. You attempt to set a new world record for orgies, extended, amateur, class III mixed doubles. You spend your time building an absolutely killer immersive virtual reality. Maybe after your thirteenth millenium you just plain LIKE having a century or two where nobody is bothering you on the damn phone.




> Not to mention the odds that they would just happen to choose a course that brought them here, when the galaxy is so large that the odds of happening to find this particular planet is kinda like looking for a needle in a galaxy sized haystack!



They don't have to be out looking for us in particular. They just have to have the will and the means to send scouts/drones/probes/settlers/whatever out in all directions looking to see what is out there. Assuming their scouts overlap in time with our existence they would show up eventually.


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## eh4 (Oct 9, 2012)

or you just pack a bunch of water bears and various bacteria, virus into countless chunks of ice and scatter them in all directions.


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## StarHalo (Jan 1, 2013)

Amazon has stylish UFO Detectors for only $75. Added bonus: they use plenty of LEDs..


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## mvyrmnd (Jan 1, 2013)

Why we haven't been visited:

THEY'RE MADE OUT OF MEAT


"They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"Meat. They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"

"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."

"Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take long. Do you have any idea what's the life span of meat?"

"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."

"No brain?"

"Oh, there's a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat! That's what I've been trying to tell you."

"So ... what does the thinking?"

"You're not understanding, are you? You're refusing to deal with what I'm telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat."

"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?"

"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

"Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

"Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?"

"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual."

"We're supposed to talk to meat."

"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."

"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"
"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

"I thought you just told me they used radio."

"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

"Officially or unofficially?"

"Both."

"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

"I was hoping you would say that."

"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

"So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."

"That's it."

"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

"And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."

"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again." 

"They always come around."

"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone ..."

Admin note: The story was written by Terry Bisson and apparently he has expressed that he is flattered that it has been posted by many on the internet. Still, we need to give proper credits.

Terry's own posting of it.


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## Mattaus (Jan 1, 2013)

Weird but strangely beautiful....

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jan 12, 2013)

Thank you so much for posting "They're Made out of Meat."

I think that is simply amazing.

With respect to aliens, just a few comments:

1) Scientists estimate there are 100 billion (ish) planets in the Milky Way.

Link

2) Scientists estimate 17 billion of those are Earth-sized

Link

Let's say half of those at 8.5 billion are in the Goldilocks Zone.

Let's say half of those at 4.25 billion have water, which in the Goldilocks Zone would be liquid.

Let's say:

-half of those at 2.125 billion have bacterial life

-half of those at 1.06 billion have plant life

-half of those at 530 million have animal life

and half of those at 265 million have sentient life.

If our galaxy has _only_ 265 million other intelligent forms of life, then we are 
*3.77358491 × 10-7​ percent*


of the intelligent species in the Milky Way _alone_.

My guess is that 265 million is far too low an estimate.

On a related note, I recommend anything by Vernor Vinge. Great, great writer.


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## EZO (Jan 12, 2013)

+1 on Vernor Vinge!

One of his more fascinating and perhaps frightening pieces is a work of non-fiction, written in 1993 while a faculty member at The Department of Mathematical Sciences, San Diego University - *The Coming Technological Singularity - How to Survive the Post Human Era. *- abstract: Within thirty years, we will have the technological means to create superhuman intelligence. Shortly after, the human era will be ended. - _(the post meat era)_ 

Vinge's speculations have always proved remarkably accurate and we are now twenty years into his projected time line. (Which he has since commented on...."I'll be surprised if this event occurs before 2005 or after 2030.") And Vinge put forth this concept of a technological singularity long before Ray Kurzweill glommed onto the idea.

The full text of Vinge's "The Coming Technological Singularity" in its entirety can be found *HERE*.


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## moldyoldy (Jan 12, 2013)

eh4 said:


> It's funny that claiming to have seen 'ufos' can trash you in public opinion and yet anyone who spends some time watching the sky away from city light pollution is going to see some things that they can't honestly identify.
> 
> There's the general evolution of an idea of any controversy; first its ignored, then its ridiculed, then its violently opposed, and finally accepted as common knowledge. -We see that throughout human' and other social animal's behavior.



Regarding UFOs and rumours of UFOs: 

An old friend of mine, now deceased from lung cancer, spent more than 26K+ hours in the air as a pilot before he no longer bothered to keep track of the hours. He flew in flighters (prop & jet) in VietNam. He flew airline cargo flights to all continents. For the same airline, he flew passenger flights to all continents up to & including various versions of the 747. He also taught me more than a bit about flying light aircraft, although one time he also sat me down in the left seat of a 747 simulator and told me to "keep it in the air".... I did, but it was a bit of a white nuckle experience as the simulator reacted to my overcontrolling before I understood how sensitive the controls of a large aircraft could be. 

At any rate, once we were reminiscing about the "old days" of 'looser' controls on flights - he commented rather tersely that at various times, he observed "something" in the sky, usually above him, that he would never dare to report to any authority. Why? He knew from other such report writeups the 3rd degree that those pilots were subjected to when they reported any anomalies _outside_ their aircraft. 

Keep in mind that back then, transocean passenger flights would normally fly above 40K feet. I myself have been up to 44K feet and observed that the sky was, well, dark blue/black, more like the black of space! Not much air left up there, and certainly no swamp gas either....... 

The point is that the pilots who obviously have the ability and experience to recognize any abnormal situation outside their aircraft in flight are not likely to report the event.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jan 12, 2013)

Two quick comments:

1) Why don't they fly at 40,000 feet (12,000 meters) anymore?

2) "There's something on the wing..."


Also:

1) Hawking's view

2) Russian scientist's view


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## moldyoldy (Jan 12, 2013)

Why do airlines not fly passenger aircraft above 40K feet? There are several reasons.

1. Because the radiation is much higher up there. Most transatlantic or transpacific flights now stay at a flight level of around 34K-35K feet with variations due to turbulence and weather. At 34K-35K feet for a common transatlantic flight route, the cosmic radiation is less than 1/2 of a chest X-Ray. The Concorde flew at FL600 (60K feet) and the radiation was roughly double that at 35K feet. 

The primary radiation problem is for the flight crews flying these routes regularly, not for the passengers. It was not that far back that crews flying the trans-Pacific routes wore dosimeters. The Trans-Atlantic routes usually flew at lower levels than trans-Pacific routes. It was on a trans-Pacific route that I reached 43K-44K feet in a Boeing 707 (as a passenger). For Australian airlines, per regulations, flying at/above FL490 required the presence of geiger counter! However not many passenger aircraft could reasonably reach that flight level.

For more specific radiation numbers: http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/faqs/commercialflights.html

Of course, during solar flares or any bursts of cosmic radiation, passenger aircraft will drop down to a still lower level.

2. Flying at higher levels usually results in lower fuel consumption. However passenger aircraft have altitude limits as well. A former popular trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific aircraft Boeing 707 had a service ceiling of 43K feet. The later Boeing 747 has a service ceiling of 41K feet except for maybe the SP version. A Boeing 737NG has a top cruise altitude of 41K feet. The classic 737 version is limited to 37-38K feet. IOW, as the understanding of flight radiation for flight crews filtered thru to the designers, the service ceilings were lowered since a higher service ceiling resulted in a higher design/build cost.

3. Another problem with flights at higher altitudes is any sudden loss of pressurization. according to one source I read, at FL400 (40K ft), the Time of Useful Consciousness is only 30 seconds for a passenger and 20 seconds for a pilot. kinda short to react to a problem and change altitude down. The common "altitude" in airliners is either 6000 or 8000 ft. At 12000 ft most people start having problems. So guessing at trained human O2 deprivation limits, the time to drop from 40K feet to maybe about 16K-18K feet is too long to stay conscious. FL450 reduces the corresponding times to 20 seconds and 15 seconds. That is short! Worse still, the lower partial pressure at those flight levels is low enough that special oxygen masks are used which force pure oxygen under pressure and only pilots might have such masks. 

Fortunately depressurization is not common at cruise altitudes. The deHavilland Comet was the last aircraft that suffered catastrophic metal fatigue failure at flight altitude with loss of everyone on-board. Twice. The evaluation was rendered that the Comet broke up in air because of cracks which started around the somewhat rectangular windows. So all aircraft windows are now oval with no "corners".

=======================

Regarding Hawkings view in that link and some embedded statements from SETI managers: 

Quote: " Jill Tarter, director of the Center for SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Life) Research at the SETI Institute, said that her center uses radio telescopes and optical telescopes to listen for signals of technology from extraterrestrial life. So far, after more than 40 years, there has not been a peep.

She said SETI's technology is advanced enough that it can detect signals from up to 1,000 light-years away."
Unquote.

I believe that SETI has very capable equipment, very sensitive. But SETI is looking across a signal frequency spectrum that the Homo Sapiens species thinks could be used to communicate. and what if that alien race is communicating outside the spectrum that SETI is looking for? and SETI scanners, even if broadbanded, still only can take a snapshot of the chosen spectrum. How frequently is that portion of the spectrum sampled? A real needle in the haystack of a lot of signal emissions in space!


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## StarHalo (Jan 31, 2013)

I used to run the [email protected] program 24/7 on my old school PC (way back in the glass CRT and steel-case-with-wires-everywhere days) until I calculated that it cost $30 a month in electricity just for that.

So when will there be [email protected] for Raspberry Pi..


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## Stream (Feb 3, 2013)

I Want to Believe.


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## Ken_McE (Feb 3, 2013)

moldyoldy said:


> SETI is looking across a signal frequency spectrum that the Homo Sapiens species thinks could be used to communicate. and what if that alien race is communicating outside the spectrum that SETI is looking for? and SETI scanners, even if broadbanded, still only can take a snapshot of the chosen spectrum. How frequently is that portion of the spectrum sampled? A real needle in the haystack of a lot of signal emissions in space!



For a historical analogy:

Up until WW II the outside world had no idea that there was an entire civilization up in the highlands of New Guinea. There was zero contact between them and anybody else. Radio signals from the outside world were passing on every side of them, passing through their huts while they slept, but they had no knowledge of them.

These locals could have studied and scanned for every type of signal known to them - whistles, drums, semaphores, smoke signals, absolutely every everything known to man (in that place and time.) They would have seen zero evidence of anybody else because they lacked the means to pick up the signals.

Who's to say we're any different?


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## LEDAdd1ct (Feb 3, 2013)

@moldyoldy, thank you for the detailed explanation.

@Ken, your point is well made. 

It's only a matter of time.

I hope they are friendly, and I hope that they don't come with a special guide, "To Serve Man."


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