# Flashlight damascus



## xochi (Jun 23, 2006)

I've seen a few makers using blade steel damscus to make flashlights. I've also seen damascus made from other materials than steel. 

My question is can a damascus be made that is good for flashlights? I mean with good thermal properties and not heavy and corrosion prone (yes, I know aluminum corrodes......) like steel. Perhaps it would even be much easier to make and cheaper than the blade type dam. Perhaps the makers just don't realize there is a market.


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## marcspar (Jun 23, 2006)

I think damascus is always made of steels, but mokume can be made out of a variety of metals including copper and brass so it might be better suited for customization for the flashlight market.

D Speck is the first that I know of to use mokume [in an upcoming version of the fireflyIII].

And to think we used to think that titanium or silver were expensive......

Marc


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## twl (Jun 28, 2006)

Silver is obviously the best metal for thermal conductivity, but ETP11000 copper is pretty close to it.

A nice Mokume, which is basically a damascus made of softer metals, made from hammered silver and ETP11000 copper would have excellent thermal conductivity, and look very cool too.

You are probably looking at somewhere around 390-400 w/mK on the thermal conductivity scale with those metals blended.

That's about 30% better thermal conductivity that you would get from aluminum, but the weight would be higher with the copper/silver mokume.

There are oxidation and corrosion issues involved with copper(likes to turn green), and mainly oxidation issues with silver(turns black).

If you get away from silver, copper, or aluminum, you pretty much are in the doldrums for thermal conductivity, as far as metals are concerned. Maybe there might be something else in a rare metal that I'm not aware of, but I don't think so.

Silver by itself would conduct the heat slightly better, but might not look as interesting as a mokume.


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## tonyd (Jul 9, 2006)

Actually, Plaladium is the best metal for thermal conductivity (about 2.5X better than Ag or Cu), although very costly in comparision. Ag is about 10% better than copper.


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## xochi (Jul 9, 2006)

A mainly aluminum with silver and copper hammered in would be nice. I think that one of the biggest issues with this process is that the patterns of damascus and I guess mokume are designed around a flat blade. I suspect that if the use of these materials catches on the early models will be toads (no offense meant) compared to later lights built from layered metals designed for the application. I suppose that it might even be possible to do this in a much easier, cheaper way for flashlights (ingnorance warning!). Since the basis of lights is a machined tube, one could make a relatively simple and thin layered sheat of about 10-12 layers and simply roll it up into a solid cylinder then machine. Done this way, the layer pattern would be much more evident when machined and might be cheaper than creating something with hundreds of layers.


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## twl (Jul 9, 2006)

According to this source, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palladium
and all my other sources, Palladium has a thermal conductivity of ~72 w/mK, which is relatively poor thermal conductivity, compared to aluminum(~270w/mk), copper(~390w/mK, or silver(~410w/mK.

Xochi,
I think that artisans can hammer the mokume into pretty much whatever shape is wanted, because it is pretty soft stuff. Knifemakers make fancy bolsters and decorative items out of it that can be fairly intricate and complex in shape. I think it could be hammered into a tube shape around a mandrel.

I think it's a cool idea, and would look great.


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## xochi (Jul 9, 2006)

twl said:


> According to this source, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palladium
> and all my other sources, Palladium has a thermal conductivity of ~72 w/mK, which is relatively poor thermal conductivity, compared to aluminum(~270w/mk), copper(~390w/mK, or silver(~410w/mK.
> 
> Xochi,
> ...



Thanks TWL . The cool thing about using damascus for a blade is that when it's ground, the intricacy of the pattern shows up. So, for a flashlight we need something that will display the layers as it's turned on a lathe (as well as is chuckable and turnable I suppose) so a solid "jelly roll" of mokume, when cut down on a lathe would display the layers all the way around. By using alot of subtle tapers in the machineing , the mokume patterning should get very dramatic.


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## lildave (Jul 9, 2006)

damascus is two of more types of steel usually a hight nickle and a mild steel. Generaly used in bladels for the durability and hardness (a balance of the two) but a flshlight you can use a anadize to get the color or patterns, and use aluminum.


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## xochi (Jul 9, 2006)

lildave said:


> damascus is two of more types of steel usually a hight nickle and a mild steel. Generaly used in bladels for the durability and hardness (a balance of the two) but a flshlight you can use a anadize to get the color or patterns, and use aluminum.



Throw in some bare and ano'd Ti while we're at it!


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## twl (Jul 10, 2006)

xochi said:


> Thanks TWL . The cool thing about using damascus for a blade is that when it's ground, the intricacy of the pattern shows up. So, for a flashlight we need something that will display the layers as it's turned on a lathe (as well as is chuckable and turnable I suppose) so a solid "jelly roll" of mokume, when cut down on a lathe would display the layers all the way around. By using alot of subtle tapers in the machineing , the mokume patterning should get very dramatic.



I think that the twisted wire system would work well for this.

You get wires of each material, and select the wire thicknesses that you think might turn out well. Then you take the copper wires, aluminum wires, and silver wires, and twist them or braid them into a wire rope.
Then you add the heat and hammer them down flat, or into a shape you want, and the twisted wire forms beautiful patterns in the metal after it is beaten into shape. You can experiment with different braids or twists or other layouts of the wires.
This is often the process that fancy damascus steel makers use, except they have a much more difficult forging task with the steel.

Apparently the trick is to get it all to become one piece when you are done, without getting separations between the metals, and keeping the distinct pattern.


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## karlthev (Jul 10, 2006)

I believe Charlie Wong aka "Mr. Bulk" may have been the first to venture into damascus lights with his limited production Chameleon, still in the works.


Karl


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## marcspar (Jul 10, 2006)

It was either he or Rob at Orb. Both started talking about it months ago and both lights should "hit" us in the next few weeks.....

Marc


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## karlthev (Jul 10, 2006)

OK Marc, I defer to your info..  


Karl


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## marcspar (Jul 10, 2006)

Don't go defering to me! [I just remember thinking it would be great if either Rob or Charlie made it happen - several months ago....]

Charlie was definately the first to accept orders.

Marc

ps - thanks again for the advice with my SuperLight II and the optic vs reflector question, Karl.


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## Iron_Man (Jul 15, 2006)

I just banged out two damascus blades this week. I have also made several mokume gane pieces.

I feel mokume is best suted for an accent, not the whole tube. Pure silver and copper make a very nice looking combo. Pure silver does not tarnish as fast as sterling. Alum. will not work in a mokume billet, its melting temp. is too low and it just does not like to "wet" or solder very well.

Your eyes may bug out when you find out how much the larbor costs making mokume gane.

Les


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