# Apple NiMH AA + Battery Charger



## Sugarboy (Jul 27, 2010)

*Apple Battery Charger*

http://www.apple.com/battery-charger/

"More charges. Less waste.

The Apple Battery Charger has one of the lowest standby power usage values — or "vampire draw" — of similar chargers on the market.1 That's the energy most chargers continue to draw after their batteries are fully charged. But the Apple Battery Charger senses when its batteries are done charging and automatically reduces the amount of power it needs. In addition, the reusable batteries that come with each Apple Battery Charger are designed to maintain a high charge capacity for hundreds of charges, so you no longer have to buy new batteries or toss them every few months.

Standby Power Usage
After your battery charge cycle is complete, the Apple Battery Charger reduces its power intake to 30 milliwatts — that’s more than 10 times better than the industry average.1

30 mW
Apple Battery Charger
315 mW
Average Battery Charger

The smarter way to charge.

When the Apple Battery Charger recharges your batteries, it not only maximizes battery performance and lifespan, it also conserves energy. Thanks to an intelligent power management system, the Apple Battery Charger uses less power once your batteries are fully charged, making it one of the most energy-efficient rechargeable battery solutions ever. The Apple Battery Charger can recharge one or two batteries at a time. It's optimized for Apple-supplied batteries and it works with AA NiMH batteries from other companies, too.

Fully loaded. And then some.

Each Apple Battery Charger comes with six high-performance AA NiMH batteries: two for your keyboard, two for your mouse or trackpad, and two for charging. Unlike many other reusable batteries, these batteries have an incredibly long service life — up to 10 years.2 Which means you can finally break the cycle of buying and disposing of those single-use alkaline batteries. The batteries that come with the Apple Battery Charger kit also have an extraordinarily low self-discharge rate. Even after a year of sitting in a drawer, they still retain 80 percent of their original charge.3 That way you always have backup power when you need it.

It’s a beautiful fit.

The Apple Battery Charger is as well designed on the outside as it is on the inside. It has a sleek, compact shape so you can plug it in between tangles of desk wires or pack it neatly in your computer bag when you travel. And like Apple power adapters, the Apple Battery Charger is designed with a removable AC plug, so you can replace it with plugs that fit different outlets around the world."


Did anyone try it? Are they just yet-another rebadged Eneloops?


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## csshih (Jul 27, 2010)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/284975


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## jcw122 (Jul 27, 2010)

I'd never try something like that. CPF members know enough about battery technology to realize that Apple is a company that is not for people who actually know how electronics work.


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## Sugarboy (Jul 27, 2010)

Heres a link to the manual (which tells pretty much nothing on the actual specs): 

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/Battery_Charger_UG.pdf


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## Chrontius (Jul 28, 2010)

jcw122 said:


> I'd never try something like that. CPF members know enough about battery technology to realize that Apple is a company that is not for people who actually know how electronics work.



I'll have you know I'm typing this from a MacBookPro5,3 and use it regularly to play TF2 and such heavy-duty games. The battery used is an exceedingly large, high-quality LiPo with the sort of advanced regulation that us hobbyists can only dream about (and ***** about when someone :fail:s to include it!). The headphone and mic plugs are both MiniTOSlink fiberoptic ports, if you swing that way, and the headphone jack also parses microphone input from a single-plug headset - plus volume and play/pause signals, too. The USB ports all supply four times the USB spec required current, if the device is willing to ask for it. DisplayPort is the new VESA standard for a follow-on to DVI, with a sideband for audio like HDMI, but also sidebands for USB which are yet to be implemented, and something like four times the bandwidth of HDMI without any of the signal quality issues. The touchpad is not only the biggest, but the best you will find, and it took the industry like a decade to catch up to Apple's backlit keyboards, four or five years for the LED backlit screens, and they still don't have standard Bluetooth or webcams, the use of which only becomes apparent when _everyone_ has one. 

Also, it's the only 1" thick desktop replacement under 5 pounds I know of, and the magnetic power plug has saved me from replacing three or four laptops.

Phew.

_Also_, this is not the first Apple NiMH charger; the first came with Apple's digital camera offerings way back in the stone age. What you missed, is the part about how these are 1,000 cycle low-self-discharge NiMH cells. Basically, Apple is selling Eneloops with a 2-slot compact multivoltage smart charger.

Sorry, thanks for playing.

Edit: Assuming eneloops, it charges at 400 mA

Also,


> Don’t try to charge nonrechargeable AA batteries (alkaline, lithium, or *NiCad*) in the charger.


Emphasis mine. Apparently, they're not fond of Ni-Cd either.


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## red02 (Jul 28, 2010)

Chrontius said:


> I'll have you know I'm typing this from a MacBookPro5,3 and use it regularly to play TF2 and such heavy-duty games. The battery used is an exceedingly large, high-quality LiPo with the sort of advanced regulation that us hobbyists can only dream about (and ***** about when someone :fail:s to include it!). The headphone and mic plugs are both MiniTOSlink fiberoptic ports, if you swing that way, and the headphone jack also parses microphone input from a single-plug headset - plus volume and play/pause signals, too. The USB ports all supply four times the USB spec required current, if the device is willing to ask for it. DisplayPort is the new VESA standard for a follow-on to DVI, with a sideband for audio like HDMI, but also sidebands for USB which are yet to be implemented, and something like four times the bandwidth of HDMI without any of the signal quality issues. The touchpad is not only the biggest, but the best you will find, and it took the industry like a decade to catch up to Apple's backlit keyboards, four or five years for the LED backlit screens, and they still don't have standard Bluetooth or webcams, the use of which only becomes apparent when _everyone_ has one.
> 
> Also, it's the only 1" thick desktop replacement under 5 pounds I know of, and the magnetic power plug has saved me from replacing three or four laptops.
> 
> ...



I could easily and successfully argue that only 1 of those 9 improvements are anything more than marketing gimmicks. However, I don't want to be responsible for closing this thread.

on topic:
Does this thing have a indicator light? Its probably easier to forget about your batteries without one and cancel out the power savings that this charger offers.


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## Sugarboy (Jul 28, 2010)

red02 said:


> Does this thing have a indicator light?



Yes




[/URL]


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## Chrontius (Jul 28, 2010)

red02 said:


> I could easily and successfully argue that only 1 of those 9 improvements are anything more than marketing gimmicks. However, I don't want to be responsible for closing this thread.
> 
> on topic:
> Does this thing have a indicator light? Its probably easier to forget about your batteries without one and cancel out the power savings that this charger offers.



I'm sorry I laid into you like that, but there's a significant number of mac users who are after a friendly Unix machine, or who specifically like one of the technical improvements Apple has made. In my case, I got out of doing daily windows updates shakehead) and three or four different scans a day to keep my machine performing like it should have been. I'm just getting sick of being snidely referred to as stupid, ignorant, or technologically helpless when I'm really just lazy and have other more important things to do with my time than baby along a computer that's not doing what I need it to do. If I come off as a little bitter, I am, and I'm sorry I had to vent like that.


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## LEDninja (Jul 28, 2010)

What Apple products use AA batteries?
Most Apple products require you to send the unit back to Apple to swap batteries.

This product requires me to plug it in the wall? Not into my iMAC USB port? Even DX sells AA chargers that plug into my iMAC USB port.

I can see the late night talk show hosts having fun with this. "Just remember you'll have to hold the iCHARGER4 the Steve Job's way or it won't charge."


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## fishinfool (Jul 28, 2010)

Has anybody ordered these yet?


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## Chrontius (Jul 28, 2010)

LEDninja said:


> What Apple products use AA batteries?
> Most Apple products require you to send the unit back to Apple to swap batteries.
> 
> This product requires me to plug it in the wall? Not into my iMAC USB port? Even DX sells AA chargers that plug into my iMAC USB port.
> ...



Mouse, keyboard, bluetooth trackpad - off the top of my head. Plus iPod things that charge internal batteries from AAs. Also, things like Flip cameras - and really, any other kind of camera that eats AA cells.


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## GarageBoy (Jul 28, 2010)

Chrontius said:


> I'll have you know I'm typing this from a MacBookPro5,3 and use it regularly to play TF2 and such heavy-duty games. The battery used is an exceedingly large, high-quality LiPo with the sort of advanced regulation that us hobbyists can only dream about (and ***** about when someone :fail:s to include it!). The headphone and mic plugs are both MiniTOSlink fiberoptic ports, if you swing that way, and the headphone jack also parses microphone input from a single-plug headset - plus volume and play/pause signals, too. The USB ports all supply four times the USB spec required current, if the device is willing to ask for it. DisplayPort is the new VESA standard for a follow-on to DVI, with a sideband for audio like HDMI, but also sidebands for USB which are yet to be implemented, and something like four times the bandwidth of HDMI without any of the signal quality issues. The touchpad is not only the biggest, but the best you will find, and it took the industry like a decade to catch up to Apple's backlit keyboards, four or five years for the LED backlit screens, and they still don't have standard Bluetooth or webcams, the use of which only becomes apparent when _everyone_ has one.
> 
> Also, it's the only 1" thick desktop replacement under 5 pounds I know of, and the magnetic power plug has saved me from replacing three or four laptops.
> 
> ...



Too bad that is not what they advertise and instead go for the "social" side of computing


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## carrot (Jul 28, 2010)

Chrontius said:


> I'm sorry I laid into you like that, but there's a significant number of mac users who are after a friendly Unix machine, or who specifically like one of the technical improvements Apple has made. In my case, I got out of doing daily windows updates shakehead) and three or four different scans a day to keep my machine performing like it should have been. I'm just getting sick of being snidely referred to as stupid, ignorant, or technologically helpless when I'm really just lazy and have other more important things to do with my time than baby along a computer that's not doing what I need it to do. If I come off as a little bitter, I am, and I'm sorry I had to vent like that.


Hi Chrontius, I hear you, I'm in the exact same position.

At work I maintain, support, and do all sorts of processor-intensive work on Mac Pro workstations. Hardware-wise I don't know any features off the top of my head like Chrontius does but I do know that it is a piece of cake to work on them -- memory comes on daughterboards that slide out with ease, hard drives can be slid in and out and swapped without a screwdriver, and they run whisper quiet. 

As a group that works heavily on both multimedia and software development, we do not use Mac Pros because we are some kind of Mac-enthusiast shop. We use Mac Pros because they deliver exactly what we need in order to be efficient.

A few examples where Windows or Linux would work for some but not every thing we do here:
- web development (we can test all major engines using OSX + VMWare Fusion)
- create custom solutions based on open source projects (often involves heavy use of *nix-only utilities)
- run large batch commands to process video, audio or image files (need ffmpeg)
- media creation (need Adobe Creative Suite & FCPS)

Running Macs and OSX gives us the flexibility to do what we do here. Again, we use them not because we are simpletons or fanboys but because nothing else comes close for our needs.

Garageboy, read the pages on Apple's website explaining the features of their machines. It's all there. Apple is a smart company that knows how to market itself. People who aren't technically-minded do not buy on specs, they buy products based on how they believe the products will fit into their lives. Apple shows in their ads how an Apple product fits into your life because that's what's effective. For instance, I watch Verizon "Droid" ads without even understanding what they're trying to sell. When I see an iPad ad it's easily understood that it's a product that will let you browse the web from the comfort of your bed, couch, or hammock.


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## Chrontius (Jul 29, 2010)

Also, as someone who has been through Apple's training, you are usually taught three ways to sell any apple product. One for clueless noobs, one for hackers, and one for artists. Anyway, they give you examples of questions to ask first, any of which (or your own thus-inspired ones) should let you figure out what class you're dealing with, and shift gears. You'll find the webpage reflects this philosophy.


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## Robert15 (Jul 29, 2010)

I was at an Apple retail store this evening and I asked about the new charger and batteries.

Most of the staff hadn't heard of this product.

They haven't received any yet.

They didn't know any more details than the minimal information that's on Apple's web site.


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## Robert15 (Aug 2, 2010)

I was at the Apple store again today. They have the NiMH batteries + charger in stock now, and I ended up getting one.

There still aren't any useful specs on the Apple web page, and nobody in the store had any more details. They didn't have any of the batteries or chargers unboxed for demo either. So I'll do some testing with the limited equipment I have available.

Package: The product number on the box is MC500LL/AA. The box includes 6 batteries, the charger, and a little manual printed in a bunch of languages. (It's the same manual as the PDF link posted by Sugarboy earlier in this thread.) The box says "Made in China".

Charger: It says "Assembled in China". 
The input rating is "100-240V 0.15A50-60Hz".
The 2-prong plug folds into the body of the charger for storage, like many of Apple's current power products. It's configured for a standard U.S. power outlet, but the prong part is detachable, and Apple's travel adapter parts could be employed to use it in other countries. I assume other versions are (or will be) sold outside of the U.S., with the right power prongs for each country. 

Batteries: The manufacturer isn't printed on the battery. No Apple name or logo. The capacity is shown as "Min. 1900 mAH". The batteries are made in Japan, not China.

I checked all the batteries on my ZTS Pulse Load battery tester. This tester shows the remaining capacity as 0, 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, or 100%. All 6 of these batteries showed 100% on the tester. This is different than the Eneloops I've tested in the past, which usually show either 80% or 60% fresh from the package. (But my Eneloops have generally been more than a year old when I received them, and these Apple batteries have probably been on the shelf a much shorter time.)

The first 4 batteries are on my Maha MH-C9000 WizardOne Charger/Analyzer. I'm doing a 100 mA discharge to measure the out-of-the-box capacity. I'll post the results when the discharge cycle is done.


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## gswitter (Aug 3, 2010)

Robert15 said:


> Batteries: The manufacturer isn't printed on the battery. No Apple name or logo. The capacity is shown as "Min. 1900 mAH". The batteries are made in Japan, not China.


Very encouraging. :thumbsup:


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## fishinfool (Aug 3, 2010)

Lookin' and soundin' like Eneloops to me.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 3, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> Lookin' and soundin' like Eneloops to me.



apploop in the hand is worth two in the charger


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## Sugarboy (Aug 3, 2010)

From this youtube video, the batteries are made in Japan.. Eneloops?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc7knrf8Hj8&hd=1


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## WildChild (Aug 3, 2010)

This thread is worthless without pictures! 

1900 mAh min and 80% charge after 1 year... It does sound Appleloopish in my ears! Also sounds in line with Infinite Loop (Apple HQ):

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&sour...+Clara,+California+95014,+États-Unis&t=h&z=16


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## Mr Happy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sugarboy said:


> From this youtube video, it appears the batteries are really rebadged Eneloops (Made in Japan)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc7knrf8Hj8&hd=1


Did we watch the same video?

The video shows close-up pictures of an Apple battery side by side with an eneloop. Those Apple batteries do *not* look like eneloops! They look similar to [Edit: perhaps not Rayovac Hybrids, maybe GP ReCyko?]


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## Mr Happy (Aug 3, 2010)

Here are pictures from the video comparing an Apple battery with an eneloop (Apple battery on the right):


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## Sugarboy (Aug 3, 2010)

Mr Happy said:


> Here are pictures from the video comparing an Apple battery with an eneloop (Apple battery on the right):



you know what, black is apple's new white.

it is possible apple can just ask the OEM to change the color of the top to black (they're already changing the wrapper to silver), to perfectly match their professional silver-black "look & feel"

i'm just saying it's made in Japan, so it's now more likely to be Eneloop


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## Sugarboy (Aug 3, 2010)




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## carrot (Aug 3, 2010)

Sugarboy said:


> you know what, black is apple's new white.
> 
> it is possible apple can just ask the OEM to change the color of the top to black (they're already changing the wrapper to silver), to perfectly match their professional silver-black "look & feel"
> 
> i'm just saying it's made in Japan, so it's now more likely to be Eneloop


Yes, but the button top and the bottom contact are somewhat different from that of Eneloops for which there is no good reason. Since there is no significant functional difference in altering the +ve and -ve contacts on the batteries one can only assume that the photos (that you've quoted) show that Apple's new batteries are not OEM by Sanyo, but in fact made by another manufacturer of LSD NiMH.


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## Mr Happy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sugarboy said:


> you know what, black is apple's new white.
> 
> it is possible apple can just ask the OEM to change the color of the top to black (they're already changing the wrapper to silver), to perfectly match their professional silver-black "look & feel"
> 
> i'm just saying it's made in Japan, so it's now more likely to be Eneloop



But it's not just the colour of the trim. The button at the top has a different size and shape (it is larger and rounder) and the can is also different at the negative end.

Batteries like eneloops are made by the gazillion, so it's very unlikely they would retool a production line just to make some batteries look different for a particular vendor.

I honestly don't think it is an eneloop. There are many companies and many facilities producing batteries in Japan. The country of manufacture alone is a very limited discriminator for eneloops.


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## Robert15 (Aug 3, 2010)

Sugarboy said:


> you know what, black is apple's new white.
> 
> it is possible apple can just ask the OEM to change the color of the top to black (they're already changing the wrapper to silver), to perfectly match their professional silver-black "look & feel"
> 
> i'm just saying it's made in Japan, so it's now more likely to be Eneloop



Of course, they can ask the OEM to change the color of the top, or any specs they want. The batteries could be made by Sanyo, in the same factory as Sanyo eneloops, using completely different specifications, materials, and processes. I suspect Sanyo (or any other manufacturer) would build whatever quality Apple requests, as long as the price is right. They could look exactly like eneloops on the outside, but be completely inferior on the inside.

Unless Apple and Sanyo decide to publish the manufacturing details for both types of batteries, I don't think we'll every be able to say for sure that these are eneloops.

Take it a step further... I've never seen anything that guarantees that eneloops are always made exactly the same way from one production run to the next. Nothing would stop Sanyo from changing the inside, but labeling them identically.

Apple could have multiple suppliers for the batteries, and could add more suppliers at any time. The batteries I bought might not be the same as the ones in the video. (But they LOOK the same, as best I can tell.)

It might be unwise to read too much into the brand name or the appearance of a battery.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 3, 2010)

Do the batteries themselves say made in Japan or just the charger packaging? It is possible apple had the charger made in Japan and stuck some applebrids from china in with it.


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## fishinfool (Aug 3, 2010)

Lynx_Arc said:


> Do the batteries themselves say made in Japan or just the charger packaging? It is possible apple had the charger made in Japan and stuck some applebrids from china in with it.


 
From the video (2:50 mark) provided by WildChild above, the batteries are marked 'Made in Japan' along with other information. Also, as others had noticed in the video, I too can see the difference (top and bottom of battery) when the guy compared the AppleLoop and Eneloop side by side.


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## Sugarboy (Aug 3, 2010)

who else are making LSD or NiMH in Japan? i believe i had some old Energizer AA rechargeables which are made in Japan?

maybe the batteries are not really that "LSD" as we thought them to be??:thinking:


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## Sugarboy (Aug 4, 2010)

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=983107


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## Sugarboy (Aug 4, 2010)

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/ba...cal-revolutionary-uh-battery-charger-unboxed/


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## carrot (Aug 4, 2010)

Say what you like, but damn those shiny wrapper NiMH sure look appealing.


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## InHisName (Aug 4, 2010)

I can clearly see that the Apple batteries were not made in the production line used by Sanyo to make eneloops. BUT what about the TONES ? I haven't seen one pictured up close. White top or black? Bigger button or same as the white one ?

Since the Apple is made in Japan we can rule out Applebrid ? Does the Ray-O-Vac / hybrid have a production line in Japan ?


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## fishinfool (Aug 4, 2010)

InHisName said:


> I can clearly see that the Apple batteries were not made in the production line used by Sanyo to make eneloops. BUT what about the TONES ? I haven't seen one pictured up close. White top or black? Bigger button or same as the white one ?
> 
> Since the Apple is made in Japan we can rule out Applebrid ? Does the Ray-O-Vac / hybrid have a production line in Japan ?


 
I don't have any Apple batteries to compare but the I do have regular Eneloop tones and Costco tones and they are exactly the same size and shape from top to bottom as the original eneloops. The only difference, other than having different colors, is that the new tones have a light grayish top compared to the white top of the original eneloops.


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## Chrontius (Aug 4, 2010)

Sugarboy said:


> who else are making LSD or NiMH in Japan? i believe i had some old Energizer AA rechargeables which are made in Japan?
> 
> maybe the batteries are not really that "LSD" as we thought them to be??:thinking:



We think they're LSD because Apple says they're LSD.


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## red02 (Aug 4, 2010)

I like any charger that has those prongs fold up or in. From the packaging the batteries seem like Eneloops. 

To address an earlier point, false advertising is illegal in the states. Thats how you know the package specs are reasonably legit. 

Not to nitpick, but why is the plug removable?


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## carrot (Aug 4, 2010)

Plug is removable so that you can easily swap the plug for any number of international plugs that Apple offers. 

http://store.apple.com/fi-business/product/MB974ZM/B


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## Robert15 (Aug 4, 2010)

Here are the test results for the first 4 batteries in my set of 6 that came with my Apple charger.

These were tested on my Maha WizardOne MH-C9000 charger-analyzer.

Test 1. Measure initial (fresh from the box) capacity by discharging the cells at 100mA. (100 mA is the lowest discharge rate available on the MH-C9000.)

Cell A: 1764 mAH
Cell B: 1753 mAH
Cell C: 1755 mAH
Cell D: 1766 mAH


Test 2. Measure full capacity using the refresh/analyze cycle. Charge at 1500 mA (about 0.79C); discharge at 400 mA (about 0.21C).

Cell A: 1912 mAH
Cell B: 1914 mAH
Cell C: 1910 mAH
Cell D: 1914 mAH

Good uniformity between the cells. The initial capacity was about 92% of the full capacity. (But note I used different discharge rates for the 2 tests.)


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## fishinfool (Aug 4, 2010)

Test 2 results look a lot like the results of my 60 aa regular eneloops and tones but then again those are just the initial numbers. You should do a break-in cycle and see how the numbers compare. I know I would like to know. 

Only time will tell if they actually act and hold a charge like eneloops do. 

:thanks: Robert15.


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## WildChild (Aug 5, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> Test 2 results look a lot like the results of my 60 aa regular eneloops and tones but then again those are just the initial numbers. You should do a break-in cycle and see how the numbers compare. I know I would like to know.
> 
> Only time will tell if they actually act and hold a charge like eneloops do.
> 
> :thanks: Robert15.



It's really weird, all the numbers/specifications are Eneloopish/Duraloopish, but the container is different. Who else makes LSD NiMH batteries in Japan? I thought all the other brands were made in China and they are usually rated at 2100 mAh!

SugarBoy and Robert15, could you post high quality pictures of the positive/negative contacts? I want better quality than the pictures taken from the YouTube video.


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## Ecolang (Aug 5, 2010)

red02 said:


> Not to nitpick, but why is the plug removable?



Because this is to be sold globally and needs different plugs in different places. This has been a common Apple thing for a long time now. The Macbook Pro has a similar fitment on its PSU as does the much older (?2005 - can't remember now) Powerbook G4


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## WildChild (Aug 5, 2010)

Ecolang said:


> Because this is to be sold globally and needs different plugs in different places. This has been a common Apple thing for a long time now. The Macbook Pro has a similar fitment on its PSU as does the much older (?2005 - can't remember now) Powerbook G4



It also means you can use the long cord from MacBook adapters if needed.


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## Ecolang (Aug 5, 2010)

Hadn't thought of that, but it could come in useful.


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## fishinfool (Aug 5, 2010)

WildChild said:


> It's really weird, all the numbers/specifications are Eneloopish/Duraloopish, but the container is different. Who else makes LSD NiMH batteries in Japan? I thought all the other brands were made in China and they are usually rated at 2100 mAh!
> 
> SugarBoy and Robert15, could you post high quality pictures of the positive/negative contacts? I want better quality than the pictures taken from the YouTube video.


 
It is weird but there's not a lot of information us consumers have to go on. I too have been wondering who else make lsd cells in Japan. There has to be more than one lsd cell manufacturer in Japan because if not then the AppleLoops have to be Eneloops.

I really want to buy my own Appleloops just to be able to do my own self-discharge test which I'm already doing with 10 others but I have waaaaaay too many batteries as it is. The funny or sad thing is that I still want to buy more batteries.


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## WildChild (Aug 5, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> It is weird but there's not a lot of information us consumers have to go on. I too have been wondering who else make lsd cells in Japan. There has to be more than one lsd cell manufacturer in Japan because if not then the AppleLoops have to be Eneloops.
> 
> I really want to buy my own Appleloops just to be able to do my own self-discharge test which I'm already doing with 10 others but I have waaaaaay too many batteries as it is. The funny or sad thing is that I still want to buy more batteries.



Same problem here... I already have too many batteries on the shelf... I purchased 3x4packs of Duraloops when they were on sale at $7.77 at a local drugstore recently and I didn't need them.


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## fishinfool (Aug 6, 2010)

WildChild said:


> Same problem here... I already have too many batteries on the shelf... I purchased 3x4packs of Duraloops when they were on sale at $7.77 at a local drugstore recently and I didn't need them.


 
Here we are talking about having all these extra batteries and guess what I just did? Yes I did just order 2 sets of Appleloops.  
I justified it by telling myself I need them for my own personal self-discharge test. But why did I buy 2 sets you ask? Buying 1 set has a shipping charge but for 2 sets, it's free shipping.  At least now I can compare them to my original Eneloops, Eneloop Tones and Duraloops. 

I think I really need to see a shrink or some kind of addiction specialist.


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## WildChild (Aug 6, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> Here we are talking about having all these extra batteries and guess what I just did? Yes I did just order 2 sets of Appleloops.
> I justified it by telling myself I need them for my own personal self-discharge test. But why did I buy 2 sets you ask? Buying 1 set has a shipping charge but for 2 sets, it's free shipping.  At least now I can compare them to my original Eneloops, Eneloop Tones and Duraloops.
> 
> I think I really need to see a shrink or some kind of addiction specialist.



:twothumbs


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## BigusLightus (Aug 6, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> I think I really need to see a shrink or some kind of addiction specialist.




Not me! I'm not addicted. I can stop buying anytime I want to. I've stopped dozens of times before and I'm sure I can stop again, some day.

BigusLightus is actually a code word that translates into SmallusWallet.


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## fishinfool (Aug 6, 2010)

BigusLightus said:


> Not me! I'm not addicted. I can stop buying anytime I want to. I've stopped dozens of times before and I'm sure I can stop again, some day.
> 
> BigusLightus is actually a code word that translates into SmallusWallet.


 
 Good one.


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## Ecolang (Aug 6, 2010)

BigusLightus said:


> Not me! I'm not addicted. I can stop buying anytime I want to. I've stopped dozens of times before and I'm sure I can stop again, some day.
> 
> BigusLightus is actually a code word that translates into SmallusWallet.



I say the same thing every time I put out a cigarette. I stop 30-40 times a day.
Also leads to chronic atrophy of wallet...


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## timtim2008 (Aug 6, 2010)

ok $29.99 is just a weee bit TOOO MUCH for 6batts & charger...


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## ryanandty (Aug 12, 2010)

I don't think that's unreasonable. I was just cruisin' the forums, looking over eneloops to see if they're STILL a good technology (looks like they are), and I was just about to drop over 40 bucks on a la crosse 700 and 4 eneloops. This gave me pause because it's closer to my $25 self imposed limit. Hoping for break in results on these soon.


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## fishinfool (Aug 12, 2010)

ryanandty said:


> I don't think that's unreasonable. I was just cruisin' the forums, looking over eneloops to see if they're STILL a good technology (looks like they are), and I was just about to drop over 40 bucks on a la crosse 700 and 4 eneloops. This gave me pause because it's closer to my $25 self imposed limit. Hoping for break in results on these soon.


 
Aloha and :welcome: ryanandty! 
I just got my 2 sets of these appleloops and chargers in today and I'd have to say, "Apple makes and designs some pretty nice stuff." The first thing I did was check each battery with my ZTS battery tester and all 12 came up with a 100% charge. I am now doing a full discharge with my C9000 and after that I'll start doing a break-in on them. I'll post the numbers here when I'm done.

Here are a few pics I took earlier. Along side the new Apple batteries are regular Eneloops, Duraloops, Eneloop and Costco Tones and on both ends are the chargers.


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## linty (Aug 12, 2010)

Yah it's looking pretty solid that they are in fact just rebranded eneloops:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/12/apples-rechargeable-aa-batteries-are-rebranded-sanyo-eneloops/


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## ryanandty (Aug 12, 2010)

Thank you for the welcome! I hope to be a useful forum member 



linty said:


> Yah it's looking pretty solid that they are in fact just rebranded eneloops:



But the article states:


> While _Superapple_ couldn't find any physical evidence linking the two, the measured performance characteristics of Apple's AA batteries matched the Eneloops perfectly.


 If they are in fact constructed by Sanyo, might the different construction be a difference paid for by Apple to somehow "improve" the quality of the new eneloops? Could the collaboration give us an _even better_ eneloop? Will this battery be around for us to purchase for a while, or will Apple keep it proprietary and dump it in a year or two? This is what my inquiring mind wants to know.


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## Mr Happy (Aug 12, 2010)

Given that they disassembled a battery I was sort of expecting them to do a microscopic examination and compare with a disassembled Eneloop to look for physical similarities. Sadly, they didn't seem to do that, leaving the results inconclusive. Another possibility would be to look for a higher voltage than other NiMH cells on discharge, or to look for the particular voltage signature at the end of charging (the voltage of a charging Eneloop climbs very steeply as it reaches the full charge state).


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## Quension (Aug 12, 2010)

Is it purely an optical illusion, or are the Apple batteries slightly thinner than the Eneloops?


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## fishinfool (Aug 12, 2010)

I just got done doing a 100ma discharge on the first 8 appleloops keeping in mind they showed up as a 100% charge on my zts battery tester. Here are the 100ma discharge numbers with after discharge ICV:

1. 1742mah ICV 1.43v
2. 1740mah ICV 1.43v
3. 1742mah ICV 1.43v
4. 1722mah ICV 1.44v
5. 1781mah ICV 1.44v
6. 1779mah ICV 1.44v
7. 1763mah ICV 1.44v
8. 1766mah ICV 1.44v
9. ?
10. ?
11. ?
12. ?

I just started the break-in on the first 8 so I'll post the numbers when they're done.


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## ryanandty (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm kinda excited, I just held this setup down at the retailer and it is tiny. It would be an EXCELLENT travel unit if these test well.


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## Sugarboy (Aug 12, 2010)

This site claims the batteries are "confirmed" to be rebadged Eneloops:

_"In all likelihood, this indeed is the Sanyo Eneloop cells, specifically the model of HR-3UTG because they correspond to physical parameters of the articles (new articles Eneloop tests show essentially the same value) but also measured the capacity - if you view the document producer , you'll find it is these cells are indicated by the minimum capacity of 1900 mAh, then the regular 2000 mAh and Apple in this case decided to set the guaranteed capacity, although it is less beneficial according to the manufacturer, and according to our measurements."_

















http://tinyurl.com/34p4d54


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## Sugarboy (Aug 12, 2010)

http://tinyurl.com/34p4d54


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## Bones (Aug 12, 2010)

I must respectfully disagree with the oft-cited author of the SuperApple article which concluded that the new Apple NiMH cell is a re-branded Eneloop. From what I can glean from a Google translation of the article, the author's conclusion seems to be based solely on two actual similarities. Firstly, that the Apple cell claims the same minimum capacity as the Eneloop and, secondly, that it also exceeds its minimum capacity claim.

http://translate.google.com ... apple-baterie ... /

http://superapple.cz ... apple-baterie ... /

http://www.appleinsider.com ... rebranded-eneloops

http://www.engadget.com ... rebranded-sanyo-eneloops

As noted by others, the differences between the Apple cell and the Eneloop are both more evident and much more compelling than their similarities. These differences are not just relegated to appearance either. They include two of the most critical criteria for an NiMH cell, being rate of self-discharge and the ability to maintain voltage under load.

*Appearance*

- The positive post of the Apple cell appears larger than that of the Eneloop. It also lacks the Eneloop's four inverted v-shaped vents.

- The filler around the positive post of the Apple cell is black instead of white. It also appears to be made of an entirely different material.

- The contact area of the negative end of the Apple cell appears significantly larger than that of the Eneloop. This signifies the use of an entirely different can.

YouTube side-by-side images purloined from DetroitBORG:


-



*Self-Discharge*

- The Apple cell is supposed to maintain 80 percent of its charge after one year in storage. The Eneloop is supposed maintain 85 percent of its charge after the same period.

- In fact, the Eneloop is supposed to maintain 80 percent of its charge after a full two years in storage. This effectively makes its self-discharge rate one-half that of the Apple cell.

Apple cell self-discharge statement:





Eneloop self-discharge graphic:





*Voltage Under Load*

- Under a 1.2 ampere load, the Apple cell appears to hold between 1.11 and 1.14 volts on average. Under a slightly lessor load of 1.0 amperes, the Eneloop appears to hold between 1.26 and 1.30 volts on average.

- In fact, on average, the Eneloop appears to able to hold a higher voltage under a full 4.0 ampere load than the Apple can hold under a 1.2 ampere load.

Apple voltage under load as provided by SuperApple:






Eneloop voltage under load as provided by Sanyo:





Incidentally, while I have no doubts that the Apple cell is not a re-branded Eneloop, I also have no doubts that it will still prove itself to be an exceptional performer in all respects. Just not in comparison to the Eneloop, including both the original and the improved versions.

*A Final Note*

The SuperApple article rightfully lauds Apple's decision to state the minimum rather than the typical capacity on their cell. As you know, for less scrupulous manufacturers and vendors, typical capacity is all to often used to reflect grossly optimistic claims.


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## Sugarboy (Aug 13, 2010)

someone should now disassemble an Eneloop to see if the internals match what SuperApple got. beware of explosion


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## ryanandty (Aug 13, 2010)

The charger's box says not to use non-apple batteries. How lame is that? Has anyone tried to use eneloops on it? Or did I miss it?


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## carrot (Aug 13, 2010)

ryanandty said:


> The charger's box says not to use non-apple batteries. How lame is that? Has anyone tried to use eneloops on it? Or did I miss it?


It's probably not a technical constraint but a cover-your-*** thing. Several other battery chargers say something similar (use only this brand battery).


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## fishinfool (Aug 14, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> I just got done doing a 100ma discharge on the first 8 appleloops keeping in mind they showed up as a 100% charge on my zts battery tester. Here are the 100ma discharge numbers with after discharge ICV:
> 
> 1. 1742mah ICV 1.43v
> 2. 1740mah ICV 1.43v
> ...


 
Here are the break-in numbers on the first 4 and the next 4 will be done in a few hours. I just started discharging 9-12 so it will be a 
while before I can post their numbers.

1. 1934
2. 1941
3. 1913
4. 1932
5. ?
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?
11. ?
12. ?


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## beamis (Aug 14, 2010)

Sugarboy said:


> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*What is it with crappy product designs?* I expect it from cheap Chinese junk, but I am pretty surprised at Apple here. Are they trying to make their product impossible to use for 8 - 10% of the male population? One of the fundamental rules of design is NEVER use color as the sole means of communicating information. For about 1 in 10 men battery chargers that go from red to green or amber to green are completely useless. I have some chargers where the light goes out when the charge is complete. That is a proper design.


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## red02 (Aug 14, 2010)

Really like those Sanyo chargers for that, red=charging no light=done. can't be simpler.


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## trosnyak (Oct 4, 2010)

Hi there!
Did you manage to get the new numbers for the rest of the batteries? Did we manage to find out who is the actual manufacturer?
Many thanks and keep up the good work



fishinfool said:


> Here are the break-in numbers on the first 4 and the next 4 will be done in a few hours. I just started discharging 9-12 so it will be a
> while before I can post their numbers.
> 
> 1. 1934
> ...


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## fishinfool (Oct 5, 2010)

trosnyak said:


> Hi there!
> Did you manage to get the new numbers for the rest of the batteries? Did we manage to find out who is the actual manufacturer?
> Many thanks and keep up the good work


 
Aloha! I forgot all about this. Sorry about that.  So far they act just like my eneloops but I don't think anyone has figured out who the manufacturer actually is. I am also doing my own self-discharge test on 4 of them and it's only been 8 weeks but so far they are still at 100% charge.

1. 1934
2. 1941
3. 1913
4. 1932
5. 1970
6. 1950
7. 1929
8. 1963
9. 1958
10. 1938
11. 1918
12. 1941
----------------
= 1941 average


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## superflex (Oct 6, 2010)

carrot said:


> Say what you like, but damn those shiny wrapper NiMH sure look appealing.


 
Oooh, shiny.
Engadget tore these apart about 2 months ago and concluded they were Eneloops with an Apple markup.
Sheeple will pay anything to be hip.


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## Mr Happy (Oct 6, 2010)

superflex said:


> Engadget tore these apart about 2 months ago and concluded they were Eneloops with an Apple markup.


This sentence is 100% accurate except for the bit about concluding they were Eneloops with an Apple markup.


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## Meku (Oct 8, 2010)

When doing the brake-in with Maha MH-C9000, are you treating these batteries as 1900 mAh or 2000 mAh? Apple is using only the minimum rating of 1900 mHa in all of their material and not the "typical rate" that other companies are using. 

I'm doing a brake-in for a pair of Apple LSD's with 1900 mAh setting. First I thought MH-C9000 would still be charging with 200 mAh since in normal charging mode you can't select rates in between full 100's but with brake-in it seems that when full capacity is set to 1900 mAh the charger selects a rate of 190 mAh even though it's not normally available. Is there a noticeable difference in results in this case? With 190 mAh I'm pushing in 3040 mAh and with 200 mAh the total would have been 3200 mAh.


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## carrot (Oct 9, 2010)

superflex said:


> Oooh, shiny.
> Engadget tore these apart about 2 months ago and concluded they were Eneloops with an Apple markup.
> Sheeple will pay anything to be hip.


It's pretty cute when other sheeple come down hard on a company's products without having any knowledge or experience of the actual product, so that they can be "clever" and "nonconformist."


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## radellaf (Oct 9, 2010)

My only problem with this particular product by that particular company is that the charger isn't particularly faster than my 2-cell Eneloop charger that is almost as small, but it sure does get the batteries a lot hotter.
Must run a higher current or generate more heat itself, since I'm talking during the main charging phase, not just towards the end.


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## Meku (Oct 9, 2010)

radellaf said:


> My only problem with this particular product by that particular company is that the charger isn't particularly faster than my 2-cell Eneloop charger that is almost as small, but it sure does get the batteries a lot hotter.
> Must run a higher current or generate more heat itself, since I'm talking during the main charging phase, not just towards the end.



I've noticed the same. The actual charger seems to be running hot or it gets the batteries hot without charging them that fast.


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## Meku (Oct 9, 2010)

I have hard time believing the "appleloops" are rebranded Enloops. With my Maha MH-C9000 using break-in I'm getting capacity between 1940 mAh and 1970 mAh. With new Eneloop 1500 cycles I'm getting consistently over 2000 mAh when doing break-in. However, there is still a possibility that these are manufactured by Sanyo and they just might be targeted low to medium power consumption devices such as remotes, wireless keyboards etc. although, there is just one conflict there since appleloops are lower capacity then Eneloops you would expect them to retain higher charge then regular Eneloops (just like Eneloops Lites do). Acording to Sanyo specs Eneloops retain 85% capacity after one year but appleloops "only" retain 80%. Therefore, either appleloops are "low cost" rebranded Eneloops or they are manufactured by some other company then Sanyo.


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## Mr Happy (Oct 9, 2010)

Meku said:


> I have hard time believing the "appleloops" are rebranded Enloops.


No informed person has ever suggested the Apple batteries are rebranded Eneloops. There is just no evidence for it. I have no idea where the rumour comes from except wishful thinking.


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## jparziale (Aug 1, 2019)

*Re: Apple NiMH. A: Wait until you hear this! Apple mice required longer batteries!*

The short story. I believe the only reason they produced their own barriers is that they had millions of Apple mice dying due to the battery terminals being too far apart. 
The tin foil of 1/4mm does actually work. I’ve saved a few from the trash heap as I knew the logic boards in apples rarely died.. until video chip makers doomed all laptops it seems. Now Tim Cook needs to go. Quality at Apple has gone from a 10 to a 7. Still better than about a 4 with the windows os and also hardware. But we each remember our first. Ahem. 

https://mackeeper.com/blog/post/331-magic-mouse-problems-and-fixes/

the long story:


have been an independent Mac tech for 30 years. I started with non Mac products but in engineering school and in life.. they were always better where it counted. Reliability and most of all, the OS. Which in 2000, finally lived up to the promise of computing. By this I mean Steve Jobs getting fired forced him to quickly produce a new operating system with this new company call next. He looked around and decided to put lipstick on the pig cold BSD UNIX in the world change forever. Calls for tech-support in my small shop went from 100 a day down to five within one year of my clients adopting a new operating system. And I’ll bring sister my heated at first because it was so heavy a load put on crappy processors that motor roller produced at that time for Apple. This in tandem partnership with IBM is much better previous processes. I’m so glad Apple finally gave up so using Intel.


That said Apple did produce a few dogs over the years, but Windows compatibles products a race to the bottom. Hard for the few decent companies to survive With quality, when someone in China can make a computer for $200. The buyers don’t understand they are too poor to buy cheap. Like buying disposable batteries.. because they are cheaper. 

You’ll notice Huffy outsells all of the other bicycle companies put together.. as an analogy.

things could change but.. I used to pay for schools to switch to mac. And it wasn’t cheap. But instead of an hour a day to keep the windows PC’s running criminally bad and dangerous for kids.. I would spend one hour a year sometimes. I’m not kidding. It’s that much more stable and OS. CANT BE HACKED. Can’t have a virus survive in the wild or spread much. I have seen three Trojans which did no damage beyond a pop up. And that’s not without the Trojan being let in pretty obviously by the 80 year old users in all three cases.


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