# Sick of strike bezels?



## Cartman (Aug 10, 2007)

Is anyone besides me sick of "strike bezels?" I have holes in a couple of pairs of BDU's and shorts from flashlights with rather sharp strike bezels. I understand why it's done, but man, I am sick of the things. I am now taping over the ends to take the bite out of the end.


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## ampdude (Aug 10, 2007)

I don't own any strike bezel flashlights, but have recently been thinking of getting a Sure-Fire 6PD for work because of the strike bezel and clicky switch. Gives me an extra impact device within reach should it come to that. I was thinking of putting the switch and head on a Z2 body for the weight reduction and grip ring, but decided I would probably prefer the extra mass of the 6PD body for the extra heatsinking ability. And the Z2 body would not fit in my Sure-Fire holster anyways. I have a V20 holster and do prefer the nylon ones.

I don't think I would want a strike bezel light for pocket carry, especially not one like the E2D with the strike bezel at both ends.. I might want to replace that with a regular clicky switch and keep the strike bezel on the head, otherwise I would just carry that in a holster too.


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## HotWheels (Aug 10, 2007)

I ordered a G&P strike bezel when I bought my SF 9P. It comes with a lens and adapter ring,plus I still have the regular bezel if I want it. I'm happy with it,although I doubt (and hope I don't) ever use it.


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## datiLED (Aug 10, 2007)

The most "aggressive" lights that I own only have mild scalloped bezels. I am not a big fan of the strike bezel, and have passed on lights that have them.


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## vic2367 (Aug 10, 2007)

i like the strike bezels,,


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## ringzero (Aug 10, 2007)

Cartman said:


> Is anyone besides me sick of "strike bezels?" I have holes in a couple of pairs of BDU's and shorts from flashlights with rather sharp strike bezels. I understand why it's done, but man, I am sick of the things. I am now taping over the ends to take the bite out of the end.




Maybe strike bezels have some utility for LEOs and Special Forces Operators - I don't know if those professions favor them or not.

Strike bezels look to me to be ideal equipment for the Chairborne Commandos and SWAT Team Wannabes who frequent CPF.

If you injure someone with a Strike bezel - as opposed to injuring someone a plain bezel flashlight - you may find yourself in hot water with the law in some jurisdictions.

Cops and prosecutors in some areas may view your strike bezel light as an 'offensive weapon' - akin to a push dagger, brass knucks, or a blackjack.

Even if you were justified in defending yourself, the fact that you used an 'offensive weapon' to defend yourself can muddy the waters.

A plain bezel flashlight will work nearly as well as a strike bezel for defense, won't wear holes in your clothes, and won't cause you as many legal problems if you have to smack someone with it. 

.


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## Dinan (Aug 10, 2007)

ringzero said:


> Maybe strike bezels have some utility for LEOs and Special Forces Operators - I don't know if those professions favor them or not.
> 
> Strike bezels look to me to be ideal equipment for the Chairborne Commandos and SWAT Team Wannabes who frequent CPF.
> 
> ...



This is gonna turn into one of those flashlights as a self defense weapon threads...

Anyway, if you live in America you probably won't get much heat for having a flashlight with a strike bezel. In some states it's quite common for people to carry handguns in their cars in case of "emergencies." If people can use handguns in self defense, I'm pretty sure they can get away with a strike bezel... which can hardly be argued as an offensive weapon imo.

In some cold states, whacking someone with a flashlight when they have a few layers of coats on might be pretty ineffective when they're attacking you... the extra half an inch of protruding metal might be able to get through.

As they say... I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.


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## TITAN1833 (Aug 10, 2007)

i thought they were there also to protect the lens.and to let you know if the light is on when placed bezel down on a table.in reallity any flashlight could be turned into a kubaton for defence IMO.


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## mchlwise (Aug 10, 2007)

ringzero said:


> Strike bezels look to me to be ideal equipment for the Chairborne Commandos and SWAT Team Wannabes who frequent CPF.



Haven't seen too many "mall ninjas" around here, but it does seem like something they would appreciate. 

If I were an LEO or someone who was frequently in "close contact" with people, and I carried a flashlight in a holster on my belt, I could see how they would be interesting. 

Since I'm not, I don't own any.


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## KenAnderson (Aug 10, 2007)

Had a strike bezel on a second hand light I purchased and I've ordered a smooth bezel to replace it. It looks nice, but I have no need and I agree that in my case it is just poking holes in my pocket. If I need to strike someone and do damage I will probably use my fist rather than my custom made pocket rocket. Cheers to those who desire to carry the strike though. They are likely not the ones causing trouble on the streets but rather more likely the ones that are trying to defend themselves and their loved ones from the creeps.

Ken


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## MikeM (Aug 10, 2007)

Some of my work torches have strike bezels,but I find regular bezels easier for pocket carry.

Mike


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## bigkahunasix (Aug 10, 2007)

All three of my EDC lights (E2D, 6P and X5) have strikes (no, I do not carry them all at once.) any cause me no trouble. If you don't want holes in your pockets, get a proper holster for belt carry. No problem.

Bigk6


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## Worklight (Aug 10, 2007)

Strike Bezels offer a nice extra protection when working security, if your attacked you are allowed to defend, atleast here in Norway, with equal force of the attacker, or whats needed to stop the attacker/perp.


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## TORCH_BOY (Aug 10, 2007)

It depends on the light, in some places it's illeagal


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## GarageBoy (Aug 10, 2007)

I like scalloped..full strike is asking to get it taken away when you pass metal detects


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## ringzero (Aug 11, 2007)

Dinan said:


> Anyway, if you live in America you probably won't get much heat for having a flashlight with a strike bezel. In some states it's quite common for people to carry handguns in their cars in case of "emergencies." If people can use handguns in self defense, I'm pretty sure they can get away with a strike bezel... which can hardly be argued as an offensive weapon imo.




America is a place with many legal jurisdicitions with widely varying laws and interpretations of law.

There are places where you can lawfully carry a handgun in your pocket, but carrying an 'offensive' weapon such as a blackjack in your pocket is unlawful. Silly, but the law is often an ***.

There are also jurisdictions where the definition of what constitutes an 'offensive' weapon is purposely ambiguous, which allows prosecutors considerable latitude.

If you injure someone and escape being prosecuted in criminal court, you may still be sued by the injured party in civil court. You might end up trying to explain to an unsympathetic jury exactly why you were carrying a flashlight equipped with a menacing-looking, sharp-edged, strike bezel with which you injured the poor plantiff.




Dinan said:


> As they say... I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.




Of course.

Consider whether the questionable utility of a strike bezel outweighs its known liabilities, then decide for yourself.

For similar reasons, my forty-five pistol is loaded with standard 230 grain ball ammo.

If, God forbid, I ever have to shoot someone in self defense, I don't want to end up explaining to a jury why my pistol was loaded with "Hyper-Velocity Super-Expanding Manstopper" ammo.

.


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## Niteowl (Aug 11, 2007)

ringzero said:


> Consider whether the questionable utility of a strike bezel outweighs its known liabilities, then decide for yourself.



I've got Kiu's SS and AL strike bezels on a couple of mags, one on a 6C now. Like many here, I like the aggressive look of them, plain and simple. It's just the way I am. Still, they're not carried often, my pockets are safe. Don't really concern myself with the liabilities. See below.



ringzero said:


> For similar reasons, my forty-five pistol is loaded with standard 230 grain ball ammo.
> 
> If, God forbid, I ever have to shoot someone in self defense, I don't want to end up explaining to a jury why my pistol was loaded with "Hyper-Velocity Super-Expanding Manstopper" ammo.



RZ, I respect your point of view. But....

Don't have a 45, but if I did, it'd be loaded with potent rounds. Don't see the point in carrying "target" ammo. I have a wife and kids to protect/get home to. That's why, at this time, my .357 has either Feds' "Hydra-Shock" or Wins' "Black Talon" (voluntarily pulled by Winchester many years ago due to "bad press"). I'm not going to take the time to aim for a big toe in the hope that all ends well and I don't get sued because I was nice. Once a trigger is pulled, it's going to get ugly regardless. IMO, "Manstopper" is the point here.

Where I live just about any form of "self-defense" is not allowed for the average Joe to protect himself/family. That's ridiculous. I intend to defend, so I stear clear of trouble, and carry myself in a respectful manner regarding LEOs (plenty familiar with them). If the need arises, I'll be happy to explain what "family" means to me.

BOT..
RZ, IIRC you like the 2C form factor....





Feel free to call me a "Chairborne Commando", I like my "Killer Bezels".


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## Hodsta (Aug 11, 2007)

I am not a fan of strike bezels, but do like scalloped bezels as it allows you to see if the light has been left on whilst face down. Sometimes scalloped/strike are sold as one and the same.


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## luminata (Aug 11, 2007)

Hi Ringzero, 

It would be easy to explain expanding hollowpoints to a jury 

_hardball ammo can exit thru the back of the intended target and any structure behind it, say a wall in a house and hit an innocent bystander.

_hollowpoint ammo , does indeed expand inside the target and create more damage but expends its energy in the target and thus the chance of a "pass thru" is greatly diminished. The Frangible bullet also misrepresented by the media was designed with the same reasoning to an even further extent.


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## quokked (Aug 11, 2007)

ringzero said:


> Maybe strike bezels have some utility for LEOs and Special Forces Operators - I don't know if those professions favor them or not.
> Strike bezels look to me to be ideal equipment for the Chairborne Commandos and SWAT Team Wannabes who frequent CPF.
> .



:shrug: meh there are a lot of SWAT team wannabes but some of the stories related to strike bezels out there are pretty good. 

On the SF Website there's a collection
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&strfnbr=6&sku=E2D-BK
My favourite one i've seen is 

Defender Foils "Dognapping"

Where the guy uses a Strike Bezel to break open the back of a car window (not sure how true it is)


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## jumpstat (Aug 11, 2007)

I've got a Z46 with gentle scallops, a KL2-CB and a KL6, all three M-series and I really fond of the Z46 with gentle scallops. MY KL2-CB do chew trouser pockets and for that its not gone out much, quite the opposite for the other two siblings....


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## Monocrom (Aug 11, 2007)

Only light I own with a strike-bezel is a Surefire E2d. When I carry it, I just use the pocket clip each time. No problems. A light without a clip should only be carried in a holster. Just tossing such a light into a pocket is obviously going to chew it up.

Also, it isn't just SWAT team members or mall ninjas who carry such lights. If you have self-defense training, and choose to accept the possible legal consequences of carrying and perhaps using such a light against a violent attacker; then there's nothing wrong with strike-bezel equipped lights.


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## arty (Aug 11, 2007)

I tend to avoid lights with them. If I need self defense, then I want something *big*. Lights are not really big enough. 
If I buy a light for a pocket, then I don't want a strike bezel on it.
I have too many lights already, and I now tend to look for small and useful, or very big and bright for walking.


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## GarageBoy (Aug 11, 2007)

If any of you are USN members, read mercorp's thread


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## ringzero (Aug 12, 2007)

Niteowl said:


> I've got Kiu's SS and AL strike bezels on a couple of mags, one on a 6C now. Like many here, I like the aggressive look of them, plain and simple. It's just the way I am.




That aggressive look is something I don't like about strike bezels. Pedestrians you pass on the street, or LEOs driving by, as you carry your 6C light with its tricked-out, dangerous-looking bezel may come to the wrong conclusion. It may appear to them that you are not only ready for trouble, but looking for trouble.




Niteowl said:


> RZ, I respect your point of view. But....Don't have a 45, but if I did, it'd be loaded with potent rounds. Don't see the point in carrying "target" ammo. I have a wife and kids to protect/get home to. That's why, at this time, my .357 has either Feds' "Hydra-Shock" or Wins' "Black Talon" (voluntarily pulled by Winchester many years ago due to "bad press"). I'm not going to take the time to aim for a big toe in the hope that all ends well and I don't get sued because I was nice. Once a trigger is pulled, it's going to get ugly regardless. IMO, "Manstopper" is the point here.




Are you implying that standard 230 grain hardball ammo is "target ammo?" Or that it isn't "potent?"

A full-sized forty-five pistol loaded with 230 grain FMJ rounds has a well-deserved reputation as a manstopper.

It earned that reputation the hard way: actual use in combat, over a time span of slightly more than a century since the round was first introduced.

The FMJ hardball round has other advantages over hollow-points, semiwadcutters and the like:

-It is the round that the Colt pistols were originally designed around. So, it is the round which the pistols are happiest digesting, with which they operate most reliably.

-It offers better penetration, which can be an advantage if you must shoot through a door or similar obstruction, or if the target is wearing very heavy clothing or similar.

For a .357 revolver to equal the stopping power of a forty-five pistol loaded with standard hardball rounds, it must:
-have a longer barrel
-fire much higher-pressure rounds
-fire expanding bullets of some type

All of which causes more recoil, more wear on the moving parts, more metal erosion, more muzzle flash. Also, expanding bullets do not always reliably expand in the target as desired.

Imagine being questioned by some slick plaintiff's attorney:

"Mr. Niteowl, would you please explain to the jury why you chose to load your revolver with the notorious Black Talon ammunition? What drove you to such depraved indifference to human life? What happened to your concept of basic human decency, sir?"

Closing argument:
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we have heard the defendant testify that he loaded his gun with ammuniton designed to literally explode inside the human body.

Ammunition so dangerous that it cannot be used by our troops in combat due to international conventions. Ammunition so dangerous that its very manufacturer - the Winchester company - stopped its production after an outcry from responsible law enforcement officials. Etc. etc. etc."




Niteowl said:


> BOT..RZ, IIRC you like the 2C form factor....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice light there Niteowl, but I'd like it even better with a plain or slightly crenelated bezel.

Yes Niteowl, the 2C form factor has long held a special place in my heart. I've always liked the 2C FF better than the 2D, because it has better ergonomics while still having decent runtime.

.


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## BBL (Aug 12, 2007)

But the 9x19mm para is much older than the .45 acp and has seen more use in combat  ... lets start a 9mm vs. .45 discussion 

In the end, we all agree - dont bring a strike bezel zu a gun fight


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## lightr07 (Aug 12, 2007)

I think Strike Bezel's have there purpose. I purchased an E2d but I've never EDCed it even though before i did EDC an E2L. For me i don't really need it. I live / always have lived in a good part of town and when i am in the bad parts i always have a light that will stop a fight / confrontation before it even starts, So i don't need a Impact weapon. I don't plan on selling the E2D but i don't really see much useful use for it in the near future. Except for those time's when i use it while looking for things. I guess i would call it more of a "Around the house" EDC. I do remove it from its "Shelf-Queen" status during strong storms and its always been ready and willing to work.

I also like the Black HA Finish on it. :thumbsup:


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## Monocrom (Aug 12, 2007)

Let's not turn this into one of those common-as-dirt debates about .45 ACP vs. _____.

Those are even more vomit-inducing than Fenix vs. Surefire. :green:

I will admit to one thing, I hate seeing "I live in a good neighborhood," as a reason for not taking self-defense a bit more seriously. But maybe there's a good point behind such reasoning. After all, it's not as if criminals or violent predators have access to cars, buses, or their legs to take them into those "good neighborhoods."


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## ZMZ67 (Aug 12, 2007)

Strike bezels have their place but I don't own any.I really don't care for the way they look on a light.I don't care for the aggressive appearance either,not wanting my lights to be veiwed as weapons.For someone in law enforcement,the military etc. I can see why they might make sense but not for me.If I did have to use a flashlight as an impact weapon for self defense I would but I'll take my chances and skip the strike bezel.


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## Burgess (Aug 12, 2007)

Sadly --


Sometimes i pull out my tiny little *2-inch blade* Gerber pocketknife.


Gotta' cut open a bag or a box or something . . . .


And some people look at me as if i'd just pulled out

*an AK-47 machine gun*

from under my coat !


Sometimes, they even summon up to courage to ASK me:


"Why do you carry a KNIFE !"


(sound familiar ?)


Only this is delivered with a hint of *FEAR*,

rather than with *flashlights*, which simply

rate a reaction of "what a dweeb".


(insert Big Sigh here)


:sigh:

_


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## ZMZ67 (Aug 12, 2007)

Burgess said:


> Sadly --
> 
> 
> Sometimes i pull out my tiny little *2-inch blade* Gerber pocketknife.
> ...



So true ! But when they need a knife or a light they will go strait to you.


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## uk_caver (Aug 12, 2007)

Having protrusions, I can understand, but even for self-defence, what's the actual advantage of having sharp corners?
Their effect seems likely to be largely cancelled out by clothing, and though they might cut if used on bare skin or thin clothing, are shallow lacerations generally going to be incapacitating to a stereotyped violent attacker?


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## BSBG (Aug 12, 2007)

uk_caver said:


> , are shallow lacerations generally going to be incapacitating to a stereotyped violent attacker?



Probably not, but every little bit helps 

I like the look, but seriously doubt the utility. If you want a flashlight for a weapon, get a 6 cell Mag and have some serious striking power.


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## LEDcandle (Aug 12, 2007)

I simply like the look of strike bezels, but don't really believe in their actual usefulness (except maybe to gouge out an eyeball  ).


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## GarageBoy (Aug 12, 2007)

Gotta love this country, where the law comes around to bite you in the rear. Home of where the guily can turn around and get his victim arrested


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## Niteowl (Aug 13, 2007)

Niteowl said:


> I've got Kiu's SS and AL strike bezels on a couple of mags, one on a 6C now. Like many here, I like the aggressive look of them, plain and simple. It's just the way I am. Still, they're not carried often.....





ringzero said:


> That aggressive look is something I don't like about strike bezels. Pedestrians you pass on the street, or LEOs driving by, as you carry your 6C light with its tricked-out, dangerous-looking bezel may come to the wrong conclusion. It may appear to them that you are not only ready for trouble, but looking for trouble.



Again, they're not carried often......I don't go down the street swingin' them around and givin' folks the hard stare. If I do carry the light out, it's at night, kinda dark. The 6C is more of a special purpose light (once a year, used to use a 5C for the occasion) and I hardly worry about disturbing the herd where I take it, and LEOs don't shine around there. It's all good, trust me.



ringzero said:


> Nice light there Niteowl, but I'd like it even better with a plain or slightly crenelated bezel.



I've had friends refer to the SS version as a "crown", when I give 'em a poke they get the idea. Right now I have a stock bezel on the 2C (the SS is on a 3C, something with a little more "poke-ability") as the SS bezel wasn't "pack friendly". KIU has posted he is working on bringing us a more subdued version, keep your eyes open.

I like these bezels for the "WTF is THAT" value more than utility. 

More to the OP's question, I wouldn't want a stirke bezel on a "pocket" light for his reasons listed. Mild crenulations, yes.



ringzero said:


> Are you implying that standard 230 grain hardball ammo is "target ammo?" Or that it isn't "potent?"


Hmmmmm...

RZ,
Your defense of the venerable old FMJ .45 is admirable and I'll refrain from further comments regarding it, but please go back and see post #19 as luminata has an excellent point that does not ring hollow!. The .357 was used as an example because it's what I have available at this time. I would love to have a Springfield Armory .45 in SS. I only brought up my thoughts on the matter as an example akin to yours, showing my views on "liabilities". 

Should I be called out onto the carpet for alleged "depraved indifference to human life", I'd have no problem showing a jury pictures of my 6, 4, and 2 year olds as I would explain the ballistic evisceration of an intruder who would dare to invade my family home and threaten us in an horrific, frightening manner, or any other worthwhile scenario for that matter........I gotta be me.

You know how us "Chairborne Commandos" are!:naughty:


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## jnj1033 (Aug 13, 2007)

Worklight said:


> Strike Bezels offer a nice extra protection when working security, if your attacked you are allowed to defend, atleast here in Norway, with equal force of the attacker, or whats needed to stop the attacker/perp.



A bit off topic, but:

I've always been amused by "equal force," laws. It sounds like you are supposed to carry a stick, a knife, and a gun, then politely ask the attacker to stop and show you what he's using and wait for you to deploy yours.

OK, back on topic:

I've never felt the need for a strike bezel. When my CCW class instructor showed off the E2D, I thought it was pretty cool, but I was mainly impressed by how small and bright it was. This was before I found out about good lights. And no, I still don't own any Surefires. Fenix is about as pricey as I can handle right now.


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## paulr (Aug 13, 2007)

Strike bezels have always looked ridiculous to me, like tricked out economy cars with chrome exhausts and junk like that. A very minimal amount of scalloping to let some light out when the light is bezel down has some functional justification. Trying to make the light look like a weapon when it's still (face it) totally useless as one is just advertising bogus fantasies. I have no opinion on the FMJ vs hollowpoint thing except both of them will have a heck of a lot more stopping power than any type of strike bezel.


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## Niteowl (Aug 13, 2007)

paulr said:


> Strike bezels have always looked ridiculous to me, like tricked out economy cars with chrome exhausts and junk like that.....



Oh, that stings.....I just bought a chrome tip and spinners for my Yugo.



paulr said:


> I have no opinion on the FMJ vs hollowpoint thing except both of them will have a heck of a lot more stopping power than any type of strike bezel.



I think we can all agree on that!


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## uk_caver (Aug 13, 2007)

jnj1033 said:


> I've always been amused by "equal force," laws. It sounds like you are supposed to carry a stick, a knife, and a gun, then politely ask the attacker to stop and show you what he's using and wait for you to deploy yours.


Given that people are quite capable of doing serious harm with their bare hands, I don't see it as an 'equality of weapons' idea - I'd guess the general point of such laws is to attempt to give people pause for thought when they have the upper hand, or when they might be extending self-defence a bit too far.
If you were somewhere where you had the legal high ground implied by the location (in your own home, where you're a security guard, etc) and had a gun, there's nothing to stop you pulling it out and pointing it when there's a potential threat, more that using it needn't be an automatic follow-up to pointing it.


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## Glen C (Aug 13, 2007)

I can see both points of view and why one person would prefer them and others not.

Most of the police officers I speak to who don't choose them do so because they don't need them or more commonly, with the spread of Hep C and Aids, are more worried about potential injury to themselves through blood transmission.


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## Monocrom (Aug 13, 2007)

paulr said:


> Strike bezels have always looked ridiculous to me, like tricked out economy cars with chrome exhausts and junk like that. A very minimal amount of scalloping to let some light out when the light is bezel down has some functional justification. Trying to make the light look like a weapon when it's still (face it) totally useless as one is just advertising bogus fantasies.....


 
You are absolutely amazing! And not in a good way. 

This is at least the third time you have brought up this issue. And each time I have shown how incredibly wrong you are. What part of palm-sized piece of metal protruding from one's fist and delivered with speed and determination to an attacker's face or head do you not understand??

I would draw you a picture, but I might get banned for the graphic pic. You don't even need self-defense training! It's common sense! Hell, you don't even need a strike-bezel. I've said it before, and now I have to say it again.... Flashlights are not the ideal choice for weapons. But sometimes, better choices are not available. While a 4-D or 6-D Maglite will definitely make for one helluva club, a smaller flashlight is far from being a **** poor weapon.

I'm sure you own a number of lights about the same size as a Surefire 6P. Get a friend to hit you full force in the face with your metal 6P-esque light. Then come back and tell us it makes for a **** poor weapon.....

As for being advertising fantasy, once again, just head over to Surefire's site. You *will* find actual accounts of those who have used their strike-bezel equipped Surefires to fight off attackers. 

Sorry, I'm usually a nice guy. But it's just frustrating when someone refuses to acknowledge something that is so blatantly obvious.... You keep telling everyone that the sky is pink with purple poke-a-dots. And I'm pointing out that the sky is blue.


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## paulr (Aug 13, 2007)

Monocrom, we are never going to agree on this. I do not consider Surefire marketing crap to be reliable documentation of anything. You can stab someone in the face with a Write Bros ballpoint pen but that doesn't mean it's a sensible weapon to make one's self-defense plans around. Take some martial arts training, it will be a lot more useful than a strike bezel in that type of situation.


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## Monocrom (Aug 13, 2007)

paulr said:


> Monocrom, we are never going to agree on this. I do not consider Surefire marketing crap to be reliable documentation of anything.


 
Sadly, I'm afraid you're right.... I'm honestly not trying to be insulting. But I just don't understand how someone can look at a palm-sized, metal flashlight that easily protrudes from the bottom of one's fist; and (genuinely) not see how effective it would be in the hands of a determined Defender. I honestly find that to be astounding. Once again, with no insult intended or implied.

*Edit : *Just saw that you edited your original text. I actually do have both Martial Arts & self-defense training. A light similar overall to a Surefire 6P is an "Enhancer." A hammer-fist is one of the best types of punches to throw against an attacker. Add a 6P or similar light to your fist, and now you have metal instead of flesh with which to strike your attacker. A 9P makes a sweet Yawara stick. You can use either end to strike with, and the barrel can be used for pain-compliance techniques. Mini-Mags make excellent kubatons. There's even a realistic possibility that Mini-Mags were in fact designed to be used as kubatons, if need be. 

That's the thing..... It's my Martial Arts and other self-defense training that allows me to honestly recommend flashlights as effective self-defense tools; if better options are not available.


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## Dinan (Aug 13, 2007)

paulr said:


> Strike bezels have always looked ridiculous to me, like tricked out economy cars with chrome exhausts and junk like that. A very minimal amount of scalloping to let some light out when the light is bezel down has some functional justification. Trying to make the light look like a weapon when it's still (face it) totally useless as one is just advertising bogus fantasies. I have no opinion on the FMJ vs hollowpoint thing except both of them will have a heck of a lot more stopping power than any type of strike bezel.


Of course a gun has more stopping power than a flashlight. But what if you can't carry a gun? What if you can't carry a knife? Is it not better to have something rather than nothing?

Unless you've seen every single self defense attempt with a flashlight I don't see how you can pass such claims off as fact.


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## VidPro (Aug 13, 2007)

ok ya whatever  a baseball bat or a tire iron dont need crenulations to cremate craniums. if you whoop some poor sucker upside the head with a 2D mag or a 2D mag with some sharpened edge, you will just break more skin, have blood everywhere, making pretty pictures for your court apperance  assuming you werent then misteaken for the perp, with the perp all bloodied and you standing there holding a cranium cruncher. so what will they call it, Exhibit #2?

i like the scalloped top things, because the light can be seen if you left the light on, this is also accomplished with nicely placed holes, that can have glow stuff behind them too. the huge extra bezels are really handy for the aspherical lens that sticks way out, after all you wouldnt want to break it when your bashing skulls in, and causing perment brain injuries.
but for the Pocket? no thanks.


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## KenAnderson (Aug 23, 2007)

I changed my mind on this one. I just took an 27mm TNC alum bezel that's not been on my light because it cut a hole in my pants pocket and I smoothed the bezel points. Now it looks more like a smooth roller coaster 

I have good protection of my light if I drop it and I can still carry it without worry of poking holes. Dremel is a wonderful tool.

Ken


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## Supernam (Aug 23, 2007)

These "strike" bezels are the biggest gimmick in the gimmick filled tacticool world. Eventually some poor cpf'er is going to find himself in serious trouble when he pulls out his "strike bezel" against a 6'2" 250lbs hardened criminal wielding a crow bar. please. Think about it, you gotta be able to reach a person's face with your hands in order to even do any damage with a strike bezel. A person can close in on you from 15 feet in less than 2 seconds. You're telling me you're going to bust out your e2d etc. and take them out? I'd rather do a whip kick to the side of the perp's knees than to take out my flashlight and maul someone in the face with a semi-sharp object. Let's say someone grabs you from behind... if you're going to grab something from your pocket, it better be a gun or a knife, or even a nice metal pen for those in restrictive areas. A flashlight? Please don't, you'll get yourself killed. 

And for those that think you could use a strike bezel to break a car's window in a tight situation... well why wouldn't a non strike bezel do any better? In fact, it probably would. Strike bezels are made of aluminum, so those tiny blades could fold over when striking a hard object. Whereas a solid bezel would have more structural integrity. The contact area would be the same, therefore with the same amount of force applied, there would be a same amount of pressure to the glass. Not to mention it'd be a better idea to try to kick out the front or rear windows of cars first, they are only held by rubber molding and sealant. 

PS: I feel the same way about "tactical strobes" also. People think as if a perp is going to shrivel up on the ground into a fetal position begging for mercy as you strobe his eyes out. Use it for signaling. Don't fool yourself thinking you can defend yourself with it. 

-rant off.


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## crislight01 (Aug 23, 2007)

Strike bezels are an agressive item, to be avoided by people of good nature.


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## Lobo (Aug 23, 2007)

Sick of em, never liked them, can't see the point of them and in my humble opinion see them as a marketing ploy catered to the mall ninja crowd(quite similar to the compass in the knifebutt that was popular in the 80s Rambostyle comando knives). Nowadays I even see people requesting strike bezels on tiny AA-lights! For heavens sake, buy a gun, knife or just carry around a big rock in your pocket if you feel so unsafe!

Really, how much difference does a strike bezel do? They are supposed to be used in a pinch, and in a pinch a regular bezel would be about as effective, allthough not as tacticool. If you're using your flashlight as your main weapon, then something is wrong. While in the progress, why not put strikebezels on your gun barrel and gun butt? Why stop there, why not on your beer can(I would venture an educated guess that more people are holding a beer can than a flashlight just prior to getting in to a fight)?

I can understand the theory behind using a large flashlights as a club, as the theory behind using a smaller flashlight as a kubaton or fistweight(don't know the english word) in pinch when that's the only thing you can use as a weapon. But strike bezel on a light so it's a dedicated weapon? :shrug:

And I'm wondering how often they actually are used by LEO etc. Is the tactical value really larger than the practical inconvienence? And in these days of PC, just look at the LAPD who decided to use non-metallic flashlights just to wash away the police brutality image. And in all fairness, there are better weapons for proffesionals to use as a baton than a flashlight.

Sorry if I offended anyone, but this is just my 2 cents, nothing more, nothing less.


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## VidPro (Aug 23, 2007)

i think you just hit the target market for the new Sureflier with the snap in Bayonett mount.







i heard that Calias, uses one in her up comming movie. "Purrgatory for the Dogs of War"


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## Monocrom (Aug 23, 2007)

Supernam said:


> A flashlight? Please don't, you'll get yourself killed.
> 
> And for those that think you could use a strike bezel to break a car's window in a tight situation...


 
I honestly don't know the level of self-defense or martial arts training that you have. But based on my training and experience, I honestly *cannot* agree with your above recommendation. While I don't think a strike-bezel is 100% necessary for effective self-defense, I hardly see it as a gimmick.... and I have seen more self-defense gimmicks than I care to recall. 

Breaking a car's window? = For God's sake, use a center-punch! I have seen baseball bats swung with force, that literally bounced off side-windows.


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## uk_caver (Aug 23, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> Breaking a car's window? = For God's sake, use a center-punch! I have seen baseball bats swung with force, that literally bounced off side-windows.


There's a great out-take from a British soap-opera where a hard-man character is trying to do just that, and it gets to a ridiculous number of takes with full and fast swings, and the window sitting there just collecting a few smears and smudges.


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## Dinan (Aug 23, 2007)

Lobo said:


> I can understand the theory behind using a large flashlights as a club, as the theory behind using a smaller flashlight as a kubaton or fistweight(don't know the english word) in pinch when that's the only thing you can use as a weapon. But strike bezel on a light so it's a dedicated weapon?


I don't think it's supposed to be a dedicated weapon... I surely don't look at my E2D as a weapon, but rather being able to act as one if needed. I think people like strike bezels since it makes something that you can carry something around on a normal basis able to be used in different way if needed. Not everyone here carries a gun or a knife around every day, but a flashlight is something that people can bring around as a tool, and having one that can serve 2 purposes is a plus in their eyes.

For most people (including me), the choice isn't between a gun/knife/mace/tazer vs. a flashlight. It's a flashlight with a strike bezel vs. nothing. I don't own a gun/mace/tazer, nor do I plan to, so for me it's either a flashlight in my pocket or nothing, and having something is usually better than nothing. I've trained over 10 years in self defense which is why I'm quite comfortable with no weapon, but a kubotan type weapon is very helpful in skilled hands as well.


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## IdahoDoug (Aug 23, 2007)

The strike bezels have their roots in weaponry hundreds of years old for hand to hand combat. Assuming they're made well enough to not fold over, a crenellated or castellated edge like that can be found on any number of medieval hand weapons to increase the amount of force by decreasing the amount of surface area striking your opponent. Some crazy reasoning here, but strike bezels DO increase the hitting power of the front of your flashlight by penetrating whatever is hit. 

Simple physics. Hit something with 30 lbs of impact that has a 5 inch diameter and you'll feel it. Reduce that 5 inch diameter to 1/16th inch and now you're penetrating it with the same 30lb impact. it's the guiding principle behind every hand weapon out there from an arrow, to a knife to a spear.

You can disagree with the flashlight itself as a defensive weapon (another crazy reasoning since most don't have the desire or option to carry a higher level of weapon), but the edges of a strike bezel will definitely do more damage. I'm not advocating use or non use of a flashlight this way but those points will definitely get your opponent's attention and disable him further vs a continuous edge of a normal bezel.

I have no strike bezels. I'll answer a threat to myself or my family with a 500 ft-lb impact from a 115g slug. Better not to get your hands dirty, or have someone complaining to a jury that you hit them in the face with a flashlight.

DougM


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## Lightraven (Aug 23, 2007)

I never thought highly of strike bezels, but I had an idea about them that may make them worth considering.

Of course, any small flashlight is a very weak weapon, only better than a fist. However, the strike bezel is likely to cause a laceration that could be likened to a shallow bite from incisor teeth. In my opinion, this doesn't increase stopping effectiveness, but it does create an identifiable and characteristic injury on the assailant. The teeth are also likely to accumulate some amount of DNA when used against flesh. These two effects will help aid police and prosecutors in identifying, arresting and prosecuting an attacker.

Suppose a 13 year old girl is walking home at night when a man in a hooded sweatshirt grabs her. She slams him in the jaw with an E2D strike bezel, causing him to release her and drive away. She never gets a clear view of his face and only a description of his car. Police detectives locate a few suspects who were in the area. One has an unusual cut on his jaw that he claims he got from shaving. But it matches the strike bezel perfectly. Also, DNA from the strike bezel matches his DNA. Due to solid evidence, he pleads guilty to attempted kidnapping.

On the other hand, if an attacker uses the strike bezel against a victim, it will also help create evidence that shows he hit the victim with a strike bezel. Suppose punks attack a 15 year old boy, one using a strike bezel. Police later find the E2D in the pocket of one of the suspects--matching injuries on the victim and having his DNA on the "teeth". Kind of hard to deny involvement. 

I don't think a small flashlight is a very good defensive weapon, but if someone is determined to carry nothing else, a strike bezel might help police and prosecutors after the fact.


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## KenAnderson (Aug 23, 2007)

Ok you strike bezel na sayers. Time for the final proof of the effectiveness of the SB. Last night I spotted a 1 cm spider on the wall of my stairs and quickly pulled my E2D out to do battle. I am pleased to say that the spider lost, in the end, was scooped up in a tissue and discarded with a flush. The wall repair guy is coming today and with a bit of plaster and paint, all will be back to normal. I don't have the final bill on what this round has cost me but I intend to practice my stike bezel aim in preparation for the next encounter. I understand that it's cheaper to repair walls if you keep the damage confined to a smaller area.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Aug 23, 2007)

Strike/scalloped bezel free zone here, ........ i like mine smoooooooth! :thumbsup:


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## Wincet (Aug 23, 2007)

Lightraven said:


> On the other hand, if an attacker uses the strike bezel against a victim, it will also help create evidence that shows he hit the victim with a strike bezel. Suppose punks attack a 15 year old boy, one using a strike bezel. Police later find the E2D in the pocket of one of the suspects--matching injuries on the victim and having his DNA on the "teeth". Kind of hard to deny involvement.



I'm sorry but the defensive use was plausible, but this idea is just plain dumb. Why in the world would a person looking to assault/kill someone spend their money on an expensive flashlight with a bezel over a dirt cheap crowbar or bar which is much much more effective. If a person wants to spend the money why not just buy a gun or taser (effective for taking a person alive)?

Also the point about the bezel concentrating the energy into a almost blade type weapon. I think if you are really trying to defend yourself you are better off using a blunt weapon and transferring the force instead of piercing the assailant. The bezel isn't going to do any major stabbing damage because it really isn't super sharp or long. IMO a flashlight is better off as a blunt weapon than a blade weapon.


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## PayBack (Aug 23, 2007)

jnj1033 said:


> A bit off topic, but:
> 
> I've always been amused by "equal force," laws. It sounds like you are supposed to carry a stick, a knife, and a gun, then politely ask the attacker to stop and show you what he's using and wait for you to deploy yours.



We have the same law here in New Zealand. Bloody stupid. Some intruder breaks into your house, and you have to give him a 50/50 chance of killing you??? You can own a firearm for target shooting or hunting, but not for self defence.

Fortunately the judges etc have discretion and some even use it. Recently a gun shop owner shot a man wielding a machete who was threatening him and his customers and he was charged for illegal possession of a firearm (he was allowed them to sell, but not to keep loaded for self defence). However after a judge expressed disappointment in the charges being laid, they were later dropped.


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## Lightraven (Aug 24, 2007)

I suppose I might call my second scenario "unlikely." The "idea is dumb" must apply to the very idea of attacking another person for sport or to steal something--yes, that is dumb. Using a weapon illegally is dumb. Using drugs like crystal meth is dumb. Joining a street gang is dumb. But that is what we are talking about with street thugs. Why in the world does anybody commit crimes that have a low payoff with a very long sentence? They just do. Logic doesn't apply.

I have no problem imagining a punk of say, 16 years, buying a wicked looking flashlight, and then using it to hit somebody during a random attack. Crowbars are big. Flashlights small. Not all criminals can get their hands on guns. Some aggressive people aren't regular criminals but could easily find themselves attacking somebody with their flashlight because they are drunk or jealous or angry. It's a big world and crazier things have happened.


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## Coop (Aug 24, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> You keep telling everyone that the sky is pink with purple poke-a-dots. And I'm pointing out that the sky is blue.




Actually, the sky is colorless. It just looks blue because the light of the sun breaks on the earths atmosphere. That's also why the sky is different colors at different times of day, because the angle between your position on earth and the sun changes as the earth rotates. 

Now back to strike bezels, while they are without a doubt very useful, I just think they are ugly. So they are just not something I look for in a flashlight.


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## [email protected] (Aug 24, 2007)

STOP THE BEZEL STRIKE!!
There is surely a way to get these bezels back to the bargaining table
and back to work on our flashlights. Sensitive mediation coupled with perhaps a few more nights off and even a bezel health plan might get these bezels back at work. Strikes are counterproductive for both sides so I say get these bezels off the picket line and back on our flashlights, protecting our lenses.


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## Bogus1 (Aug 24, 2007)

I'm posting since I didn't read about fire prevention. I sacrifice some spill beam in hotwires and multi LED lights with crenellated bezels due to extra cooling these bezels provide if they are placed bezel down and left on. Sure who does that? Well Murphy does. It might just prevent a fire.

Also with dimming LED lights, larger crenellated bezels help remind the user to turn off a light. Without a radical bezel you simply won't notice a dim light is left on. I've even used these bezels to scrape with and other chores that I didn't want to dull a knife with. There are definitely draw backs to strike bezels, but there are real advantages, even if you don't like the looks or feel you will need them under violent circumstances.


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## greenlight (Aug 24, 2007)

VidPro said:


> ok ya whatever  a baseball bat or a tire iron dont need crenulations to cremate craniums..



Nice alliteration, even if it's not totally accurate.


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## dudemar (Aug 24, 2007)

Cartman said:


> Is anyone besides me sick of "strike bezels?" I have holes in a couple of pairs of BDU's and shorts from flashlights with rather sharp strike bezels. I understand why it's done, but man, I am sick of the things. I am now taping over the ends to take the bite out of the end.



I have a cheap, easy solution for this. I have a GG&G strike bezel for my SF 6P. I take a used "Ocean Spray" Cranberry juice cap and cover the bezel end of the light. Roll a piece of duct tape (or some kind of tape) on the inside of the cap; this way it's strong enough to stick to the light, but light enough to come off when you pull it out of your pocket. Other than being slightly bulky, it works perfectly (I don't think this would be an issue with BDU's, though). If it breaks, you drink more cranberry juice. If you need a smaller cap, I'm sure there's one out there.

Done!:thumbsup:

I love strike bezels, when I have the money will buy some more. However I am running out of excuses since I bought a Pila GL3... huge bezel on that bad boy.:devil:


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## BentHeadTX (Aug 24, 2007)

My Mag LED modded lights use Kiu HA-III aluminum strike bezels. I use them for several reasons. They let me know the light is on if I place it face-down on the concrete. They protect the glass lens I use when I drop it in the dirt. They add mass to the head for better cooling. They give a visual indication to people that the Mag is not "stock". The glow dots allow me to find the light in the dark. 

After all the money it takes to build a HA-III 8AA Quad Cree Mag...why would I hit anyone with it? My Leatherman Charge Ti with the smooth and serrated blades out (facing opposite ways give it that "double-edged" look. 

As far as ammo, I do what my father told me. 12 gauge pump shotgun 18.5" barrel, pistol grips and three shotgun shells inside. First shot = light load squirrel shot to stop them but they remain alive. Second shot is double aught buck shot in case the squirrel shot does not get their attention. Third shot is a slug just in case they took too much PCP and require a large hole to stop them. The ultimate 3 strikes weapon. Most people will run like hell if they see a pump shotgun pointed in their general direction. 

Strike bezels for defense? "You brought a flashlight to a gun fight?"


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## Monocrom (Aug 24, 2007)

BentHeadTX said:


> Strike bezels for defense? "You brought a flashlight to a gun fight?"


 
That reminds me of the guy wearing a gun on his hip, laughing at the other guy standing less than 21 feet away from him and holding a knife....

"You brought a knife to a gun fight?" 

..... right before he got stabbed. :ironic:


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## lightemup (Aug 26, 2007)

Hey scdaf: I got your joke, very good 

As for strike bezels, if you don't like them don't buy them, and if you already have them and don't like them i'd suggest putting them up for trade on b/s/t. 

Personally I agree for pocket carry they are no good. But for bag or belt carry, why not I say  

Again on a personal level I like 'scalloped' bezels that aren't flat and aren't quite as far as a 'strike' one.


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## Radio (Aug 26, 2007)

+1 for strike bezels :thumbsup:


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## Monocrom (Aug 27, 2007)

lightemup said:


> Personally I agree for pocket carry they are no good. But for bag or belt carry, why not I say


 
:huh2:

Surefire E2d.... I just use the pocket-carry clip on mine. No holes in my pants pockets.


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## lightemup (Aug 27, 2007)

Good point Monocrom, personally I do not use the pocketclips. I should have said that in my post. I carry the exec series bezel down in my pockets. 

To be honest I didn't give a second thought to carrying it how you describe in pockets. I apologise for my generalisation 

And also perhaps I should have said "not ideal" instead of "no good"


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## Dinan (Aug 27, 2007)

I just got a LumensFactory EO-E2R and some AW RCR123A's for my E2D and this thing is now mega bright!! So bright for such a small incan light. I switched the head and tailcap to the E2D body from my black E1E and it's a tad smaller in this form... but it feels like something is missing. I like the E2D's head (can use it to open bottles/packaging and other misc. stuff), and isn't the pyrex window thicker on the E2D bezel?


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## Scattergun (Aug 28, 2007)

I have several lights with strike bezels, I find them useful to make sure I dont forget the light turned on... As a weapon they are really not that much to write home about...maybe as a last ditch impactweapon, but any stick of substantial size would be more effective:naughty:

So...strike bezels - NO, crenellated bezels - YES!!


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## roadie (Aug 28, 2007)

jus remember that its like a knife that cuts both end, (user and target), a good pouch is needed ....


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## djblank87 (Aug 28, 2007)

I carry a Surefire 6P Defender every night I work. I have never had a problem with it tearing my uniform or anything like that. Granted it is a small strike bezel.

I like strike bezels on some lights, there a nice last resort if needed.


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## SuperNinja (Nov 27, 2007)

Wincet said:


> The bezel isn't going to do any major stabbing damage because it really isn't super sharp or long.


This is pretty sharp.
https://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=1307


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## quatra2008 (Nov 27, 2007)

I like strike bezels and so far no problems with tearing my pockets. i have lucky brand jeans if that makes a difference.


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## Jvalera (Nov 27, 2007)

I like em strike bezels and the strike switches too. Just got Lighthounds
stainless steel version and wish that it came with a ss body to match. I think 
one can argue that the edges serve as an on indicator safety design.
As for defense a half broken soda bottle or a sturdy pen is nastier. :duh2:


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## jzmtl (Nov 27, 2007)

I'll make up my mind if someone would send me a E2D to play with.


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## Monocrom (Nov 27, 2007)

jzmtl said:


> I'll make up my mind if someone would send me a E2D to play with.


 
I'm too busy EDCing mine.


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## Brozneo (Nov 27, 2007)

Im not a fan of strike bezels at all, but I do like the small bezel indents eg. SF KL4, the small crencilation M6 etc - looks good (small) and you can see if the light is still on!


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## Paladin (Nov 27, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> A 9P makes a sweet Yawara stick. You can use either end to strike with, and the barrel can be used for pain-compliance techniques. Mini-Mags make excellent kubatons. There's even a realistic possibility that Mini-Mags were in fact designed to be used as kubatons, if need be.
> 
> That's the thing..... It's my Martial Arts and other self-defense training that allows me to honestly recommend flashlights as effective self-defense tools; if better options are not available.


 
Obligatory photo for the visually challenged. Sometimes an innocent looking flashlight is the only permissible item to defend oneself with, besides a pen or pencil.






pelicans are cute, and nonthreatening!




a little more "muscle" for night hikes.

My E2D, 6PD, and 9PD stay at home on the shelf...

Paladin


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## bondr006 (Nov 27, 2007)

I like not only the look of my strike bezels, but the defensive capabilities they offer. Don't buy em' if ya don't like em'.


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## Marlite (Nov 28, 2007)

To me they are a big nuisance. I do not consider it a fighting tool by me and I have been around martial artists. My nephew is a Karate black belt weapons champion who defeated his Sensei for an belt upgrade in weapons competition. 
He said good luck with a flashlight. Thus I remain a lover......

I have used a collection of hotel shampoo and conditioner bottles, for their flat bases and square sided interiors. I place the head face down in a plastic cut down bottle for a snug fit to protect from sharp crenelations, a rubber band may help. They are also useful for diffusers, if white or opaque. Larger containers (water bottles) also protect the lens in the light face down in the garbage container in the car.

 marlite


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## Art Vandelay (Nov 28, 2007)

People seem to assume that it will be obvious that they will be seen as the good guy defending himself and the other guy will be seen as the criminal.

What if it's not that simple? What if the other guy is a yuppie with a temper just like them? What if the other guy has more pull than they do? If that were the case, I would prefer the other guy not be covered in blood with permanent scars on his face. 

I don't think they will let people take crenelated bezels to jail.


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## Tesla-6 (Nov 28, 2007)

Some very interesting comparisons & analogies.
I like the look of the extended bezels & the protection they afford my
lens, a couple of which are aspherical & would protrude further
than a std [email protected] bezel ring for instance.

I am in a rural part of the UK with little light polution.
However, there is a saying that...
*On average, you are within 6 feet of a rat wherever you go in life*.
Same applies with humans.
A torch can legally be carried in the UK for the purpose for which it was intended.
However...
If someone is stupid enough to cause trouble whilst out walking
& you have a D Mag in your hand, the fact it has an extended bezel will
make little difference to the outcome. ( its going to hurt)

Fact is, my local police have already seen a [email protected] with an extended bezel
in a 7-11.
He asked what it was out of curiosity.
I simply showed him the end of the torch.
His reply was " Bloody hell, thats amazing, I did not think you could fit
so many LEDS in a [email protected] !
He immediately saw the bezel as protection for the contents of the flashlight.
Thats cool by me:thumbsup:

Cheers
Jac


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## GarageBoy (Nov 28, 2007)

The point is you DON'T wanna open him up with your impact weapon.
A. Be weary of diseases
B. Be weary of what the judge will think afterwards


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## Patriot (Nov 28, 2007)

TORCH_BOY said:


> It depends on the light, in some places it's illeagal



That's just downright sad. When did this happen to Australia?


I'm not a big strike bezel fan. I don't mind the mildly scalloped ones that allow you to see that your light is on when bezel down.


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## wishywashy7 (Nov 29, 2007)

Dear Sirs,

In light of the opinions stated in this thread, I would like to present some figure’s for your perusal. This is regards to the actual utility of a strike bezel as a weapon. I come from a medical background so I will try to analyze this from a medical standpoint. I assume that if someone got into an altercation equipped with only a strike bezel, he is going to strike his opponent’s head or skull, rather than attempt to make “shallow lacerations” previously mentioned. I have left the sources/links for reference. For the record, I have no legal or martial arts training whatsoever.

"It only takes 33 foot pounds of energy to fracture a skull, orapproximately 398 inch pounds of energy"http://www.eijkhout.net/rad/dance_other/health4.html

"a force of 73 Newtons is enough to cause a simple fracture, thisforce is the equivalent of walking into something solid. An unrestrained adult fall from standing has been shown to produce aminimal force of 873 N which is more than enough to produce a skull fracture."http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/studentwebs/session2/group62/head.htm

NOTE* to convert Newtons to pounds multiply by 0.2248 in the abovecase 73 newtons=16.4104 and 873N=196.2504 lbs So, the force required to crush a human skull is (aproximately)between 16 and 196 pounds.

“Consider a martial artist capable of striking with 190 joules (J) or 140.13 foot pounds of energy. A typical human hand is about 6 inches long including the fingers and 4 inches across, which means that a strike with the entire hand disperses those 190 J over 24 square inches, about 7.92 J per square inch. If, however, the karateka strikes with only the fleshy part of the palm, about 2 inches across and 1.5 inches long, the 190 J will be dispersed over only 3 square inches. That strike will deliver about 63.3 J per square inch, inflicting many times the amount of damage the whole hand could—the same amount of energy dispersed over a smaller area delivers more energy per unit area.”
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:NC8XquAO4T4J:howthingswork.virginia.edu/journal/Article1.1.pdf+hand+strike+newtons&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=sg 

Semi-sharp object? imagine even half of that force, say 70 foot pounds distributed over an area only a fraction of a square inch, that should easily exceed the required 33 ft pounds of energy to fracture a skull. And if the area of the skull fracture is near an artery, it may definitely produce disability or incapacitation.

This is why I would respectfully disagree that a strike bezel has no utility as a weapon to incapacitate.

Most respectfully yours,


wishywashy7

PS: I hope a materials scientist or engineer can also give figures/estimates to clarify if a strike bezel can help penetrate auto glass


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## Paladin (Nov 29, 2007)

I think few of the posters were saying a strike bezel had no utility, merely that it is UN-NEEDED and a normal bezel will suffice when used as an improvised impact tool. *Blunt force without the laceration capability*. The tailcap end of a Pelican M3 will leave enough of an impression on the recipient of such a blow, without the legal quagmire associated with the use of a weaponized tool such as the 6PD.

Paladin


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## SuperNinja (Nov 29, 2007)

wishywashy7 said:


> This is why I would respectfully disagree that a strike bezel has no utility as a weapon to incapacitate.


The people that downplay its effectiveness aren't thinking objectively.
If I used a bezel (like the one I linked to earlier) on someone, I have NO doubt I could do serious damage with it.


wishywashy7 said:


> PS: I hope a materials scientist or engineer can also give figures/estimates to clarify if a strike bezel can help penetrate auto glass


You don't need a "materials scientist or engineer" for that.

I shattered automotive glass quite easily once in a junkyard, by smacking it with the tip of a pair of wire cutters. A strike bezel is just as capable.
You just have to use a little "authority" when you hit with it.



Edit: It was a side window, not the front window.

But if I was planning to buy an emergency tool to break glass, I would tend to choose an automatic center punch or glass breaking hammer, instead of relying on a flashlight to serve as a glass breaking tool.


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## EVAN_TAD (Dec 1, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> I like not only the look of my strike bezels, but the defensive capabilities they offer. Don't buy em' if ya don't like em'.



Where did you get those bezels from?


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## bondr006 (Dec 1, 2007)

If you are talking about the Stainless ones....I got them here at Lighthound.

Rob



EVAN_TAD said:


> Where did you get those bezels from?


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## jayinhk (Feb 22, 2008)

Interesting thread. I used to live in the US, where I slept with a Mossberg loaded with rounds intended for home defense use: #4 shot, 00 buckshot and then a slug (just like the guy from Texas posted about). I had a lasersight under the 18.5" barrel merely for visual intimidation. I also had a Lasermax and ghost ring fitted Glock 23 with a custom trigger job. 

I've always been interested in martial arts and edged weapons. I started learning martial arts at 11 or 12, when I learned judo under a former Olympic gold medal winner.

Where I live now, we are not allowed to carry or even own firearms unless we have a demonstrated need. Something like 0.01% of civilians here are allowed to carry concealed weapons. I do, however, carry a Cold Steel Sharkie in my strong-side pocket and an Cree Q5 Ultrafire flashlight with a strike bezel. I have a large, heavy machete and a baseball bat as well as an assortment of knives for home defense now. If I really feel the need, I may carry up to two knives, which is only legal when hiking. Like any intelligent person, I avoid physical conflict as far as I possibly can. I don't want to get blinded or seriously injured. I am fairly large (6'1, 220 lbs) but there are bigger and stronger guys out there, so it's nice to have a few extra tricks up one's sleeve in case something DOES happen. That being said, I've been able to diffuse every conflict I've found myself in in the last 11 years VERBALLY. 

I wouldn't choose the flashlight as my first weapon, but if I do have it in my hand, it will be the easiest weapon to use. I would use it for illumination or to temporarily blind someone who is intoxicated. Fortunately, there isn't much PCP to worry about here. Just lots of cocaine, which in many ways can be nearly as dangerous.

Some might say I'm a little paranoid for carrying up to 5 potential weapons at a time, but I only carry what I am comfortable with and know how to use well. I don't go looking for trouble. I no longer drink at bars. I like to know I am better-equipped to deal with what may come my way than most. Krav Maga training is next on my list.


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