# New toys ... tools



## niner (Nov 16, 2009)

I just a few new tools in today.

My new height gauge:





http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss357/niner93/machining/P1000956.jpg 

I got a granite platform from enco (thanks to the free shipping). Too bad it is broken during the shipping. I'll get another one soon.




Co-ax indicator:




BT30 Drill chuck form Maritool. Looks like high quality stuff.




Aloris AXA drill chuck:




I got a batch of new ISCAR 1/2" shank holders, to be used with CCMT or CCGT




By the way. I don't need that many holders. So let me know if you want one. You can have it at my cost plus shipping. Otherwise, the extras are going back to ebay.


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## darkzero (Nov 16, 2009)

Nice!

That sucks about the granite surface plate though. I also got one from Enco a while back with free shipping, import 12x18 grade A. Mine was just shipped in it's original box thrown in another larger box sideways with no packaging material at all. It arrived without any damage even though the box was thrashed. Did the other piece fall out of the box?

Nice holders, I saw those SCLCRs too, great deal. I've been using the same (Dorian) & I'm very happy with them using CCGT.


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## niner (Nov 16, 2009)

darkzero said:


> Nice!
> 
> That sucks about the granite surface plate though. I also got one from Enco a while back with free shipping, import 12x18 grade A. Mine was just shipped in it's original box thrown in another larger box sideways with no packaging material at all. It arrived without any damage even though the box was thrashed. Did the other piece fall out of the box?
> 
> Nice holders, I saw those SCLCRs too, great deal. I've been using the same (Dorian) & I'm very happy with them using CCGT.


 
Exact same surface plate, 12x18 grade A from Enco. Same kind of packing too, but mine didn't survive. I still have the broken piece. I think I will try to glue it back with 2 part epoxy.

BTW, what should I use to clean the granite surface?

I heard a lot of good things about CCGT (thanks Barry), so I decide to get a holder to try.


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## precisionworks (Nov 17, 2009)

> I heard a lot of good things about CCGT


They are a nice, small insert, very free cutting. When turning a tiny part, like the head of a cap screw that's only .305" diameter, the small cutting forces help to do a nice job & leave a fine finish. Lathe Inserts has a few, including one aluminum insert with a .008" nose radius ... which might be called a razor tip 

http://latheinserts.com/category.sc?categoryId=46

EBay always has a bunch, 40 listings on a search just now.



> let me know if you want one. You can have it at my cost plus shipping.


How much is that?


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## niner (Nov 17, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> They are a nice, small insert, very free cutting. When turning a tiny part, like the head of a cap screw that's only .305" diameter, the small cutting forces help to do a nice job & leave a fine finish. Lathe Inserts has a few, including one aluminum insert with a .008" nose radius ... which might be called a razor tip
> 
> http://latheinserts.com/category.sc?categoryId=46
> 
> ...


 
I got mine form the same place. Curtis is a very nice guy.



> How much is that?


 
I got them for $20 each, another $5 for USPS to you.


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## wquiles (Nov 18, 2009)

Cool toys :thumbsup:


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## niner (Nov 18, 2009)

wquiles said:


> Cool toys :thumbsup:


 
That's right, they are more or less toys right now, until I figure out how to use them.

Anyone has a link on what I can do with a height gauge?


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## unterhausen (Nov 18, 2009)

I make bicycle frames and you can use a height gauge to determine if they are aligned. Bolt one part down and measure the height of the tubes in various locations. I'm sure there are other similar uses for a height gauge

I always wondered about the toolpost drill chucks. It always seemed like you would be better off using a drill in the tailstock, because getting the carriage exactly centered is a bit of an effort.


I don't order anything from Enco unless I think a 1st grader could ship it successfully. I ordered some ground tool steel from them and it was nicely bowed around the rest of the order and also scratched. I'm sure they would have replaced it, but it just wasn't worth it to me to complain and have to deal with the consequences.


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## niner (Nov 18, 2009)

unterhausen said:


> I make bicycle frames and you can use a height gauge to determine if they are aligned. Bolt one part down and measure the height of the tubes in various locations. I'm sure there are other similar uses for a height gauge
> 
> I always wondered about the toolpost drill chucks. It always seemed like you would be better off using a drill in the tailstock, because getting the carriage exactly centered is a bit of an effort.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the idea.

I mount a precision laser pointer in the chuck. I use it to align the holder chuck. With DRO, I would have to do it once.

Enco is pretty bad with packing. 3 out of 9 orders I got from them, some stuff inside were broken. MSC seems to be a little bit better.


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## precisionworks (Nov 18, 2009)

> getting the carriage exactly centered is a bit of an effort.


It isn't as hard as it looks, as there are just two variables - center height & parallelism of the TP to the ways.

Center height is really easy if you have a dead center that fits the headstock or tailstock. Chuck up something with a fine point and adjust height until the headstock or tailstock centers align with the point.

The parallelism (tram) gets set last. Mount a long boring bar, something 6" or longer. Set it by eye as parallel with the ways as possible. Now indicate the bar just like indicating a vise on the mill, by checking how far the variation is from one end of the bar to the other. The trick is to tighten the TP enough to hold a setting but loose enough that a brass hammer can move the bar just slightly. When there's no more than .001" change from end to end, call it good.


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## wquiles (Nov 19, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> The parallelism (tram) gets set last. Mount a long boring bar, something 6" or longer. Set it by eye as parallel with the ways as possible. Now indicate the bar just like indicating a vise on the mill, by checking how far the variation is from one end of the bar to the other. The trick is to tighten the TP enough to hold a setting but loose enough that a brass hammer can move the bar just slightly. When there's no more than .001" change from end to end, call it good.



That sounds good. How do you actually set the Toolpost to be aligned with the ways at 0 degress (or 90 depending on your point of view)? Like for example you are done cutting threads at 29.5 deg and now go back to 0/90 degrees?


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## unterhausen (Nov 19, 2009)

I'm trying to figure out why I would want to go to the effort of getting the toolpost mounted chuck centered when I already have a tailstock mounted chuck. I guess it could be quicker if you had a batch of these chucks and did a number of drilling operations in a row. seems like it would make more sense on a cnc machine that was already trammed. I would probably get the carriage centered and then bump the handle.


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## precisionworks (Nov 21, 2009)

A PCD tipped insert for under a hundred :laughing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CCGT-32-51-CB1-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2303ad8fbb



> How do you actually set the Toolpost to be aligned with the ways at 0 degress


See post #10


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## niner (Nov 21, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> A PCD tipped insert for under a hundred :laughing:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/CCGT-32-51-CB1-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2303ad8fbb
> 
> See post #10


 
Barry, what's PCD tipped insert? what is so special?


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## precisionworks (Nov 21, 2009)

Polychrystalline Diamond (PCD) is used for turning & milling aluminum (at VERY high speeds), carbon fiber, ceramics, and abrasive materials ... but not steel. I've seen some studies where PCD inserts were run at 10,000 sfpm in aluminum - that's 10,000 rpm for a 4" face mill 

High in initial cost but cheaper than carbide in the right application. PCD inserts normally outlast carbide 100 to 1. 

Some info:

http://www.abrasive-tech.com/resources/pcd/pcd_pcbn.aspx

http://www.cutting-tool.americanmachinist.com/guiEdits/Content/bdeee15/bdeee15_1.aspx


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## niner (Nov 21, 2009)

Thank you Barry. I may have to try them.


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## precisionworks (Nov 21, 2009)

> what I can do with a height gauge?


They are capable of doing quite a few thickness or height related ops. Now that you have the height gage, you'll also want a set of gage blocks, as the blocks allow you to mount a shop made "feeler" (which may not read zero on the scale), move the feeler way down into a cavity like the bottom of a light body & lock the gage. Lift the gage clear, remove the light body, set the gage back down on the surface plate, and build a stack of gage blocks to determine thickness. Gage blocks will allow thickness measurement to .001". Mine are a used set from eBay, nearly new, seems like $50 or so. Unless you plan to use the gage blocks to set a sine bar or sine vise, the workshop grade B are more than adequate.






You can also set up like the photo above & use an adjustable length feeler bar that will allow the gage to zero at some point when it touches the plate. Some info here:

http://www.finelinehair.com/home/mensuration_instruments.htm#Height_Gages


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## darkzero (Nov 21, 2009)

I've been looking at getting that Mitu depth guage attachment for my Mitu. They are very reasonably priced compared to the Starrett attachment that costs almost 6 times more.

What is the proper way to use the depth attachment? With dial or vernier gages zero really can't be set (somewhat), so do you simply just compensate once setting the bar for a certain height?


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## precisionworks (Nov 21, 2009)

My Etalon (Swiss) height gage is vernier, and that's where the gage blocks come into play. Push the extension to the bottom of the part, lock the slider on the depth gage, lift the gage away, remove the part & build a stack of gage blocks under the extension. The total of all the blocks is the thickness of the part.



> I've been looking at getting that Mitu depth guage attachment for my Mitu. They are very reasonably priced compared to the Starrett


I have a lot of Mitu equipment ... over a dozen mics, digital calipers, etc., so it's one of my favorite brands. But their attachment is not well designed:





One small thumb screw bears against the extension shaft. Fixing the shaft in position is critical to an accurate depth measurement, & I would be hesitant to trust that method. Starrett uses a compression collet to give nearly 360 degrees of contact to the rod.






For $150, the Starrett is way overpriced. I normally fab up whatever is needed for the job at hand, using flat ground tool steel. Buy a 36" length to match the width of the arm on your gage & make them as you need.


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## darkzero (Nov 21, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> But their attachment is not well designed:
> 
> One small thumb screw bears against the extension shaft. Fixing the shaft in position is critical to an accurate depth measurement, & I would be hesitant to trust that method. Starrett uses a compression collet to give nearly 360 degrees of contact to the rod.
> 
> For $150, the Starrett is way overpriced. I normally fab up whatever is needed for the job at hand, using flat ground tool steel. Buy a 36" length to match the width of the arm on your gage & make them as you need.


 
I see now why there is such a large gap from $30 to $150. No way I'm going to spend $150 on an attachment for my gage that cost me $75. The extended scribe that came with my gage costs ove $100 alone, glad it came with it. 

Anything reasonably priced that is of acceptable quality/design? Making one as needed is fine but lots of times I need to take a quick measurement. My projects always different as I accept a wide range of work/lights so I would rather have something that allows me the ease of adjustability. Is the Mitu attachment really that bad? "I'm not making space shuttle parts".


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## precisionworks (Nov 22, 2009)

> Anything reasonably priced that is of acceptable quality/design?


The easiest way to make one act like a Starrett is to copy a Starrett using Starrett parts 

Start with a Starrett pin vise #162D (top of photo), which has a compression collet that will hold rods from .115" -.187". Bore an arm so the small end of the pin vise is a press fit, or use bearing retaining compound (or JBWeld) to lock the pin vise in the arm. 






Cut the excess length off the pin vise handle. $20 and a little time & it's done. I like that idea so well that I might even make one


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## darkzero (Nov 22, 2009)

Cool, great idea! I will definitely make one too! 

Kind of regretting selling my old 10" height gage. The more I use my 12" & the one in shop class that is comparable to my old 10" I feel like my 12" is too big & bulky for my uses. It's great for just measuring height but feels too bulky when using for scribing/layout. I'm probably just being stupid.

BTW, any difference between red & blue Dykem? Blue seems to be the most common but I see red used here & there. Just color preference? I like the red.


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## precisionworks (Nov 22, 2009)

> any difference between red & blue Dykem?


One of my customers uses red, I use blue. The red seems more transparent IMO, but that may just be me. The aerosol isn't bad for some jobs, although the spray nozzle clogs easily & requires cleaning after every use. If the metal is really cold, warm it first with a propane torch and the Dykem will dry quickly.


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## precisionworks (Nov 22, 2009)

> feel like my 12" is too big & bulky for my uses.


I'll trade my 18" for your 12"  Seriously, there are some gages that have more mass or length at the base, or that have the vertical scale mounted in a different position. You may find another design that you like better.






Here's the extended feeler that I use to check dome thickness in racing pistons:





The top two are shop made, and the hole center finder is commercial.





The center finder is used to determine hole center location, or hole to hole spacing. Made by Mitu, called a Center Master. Retails around $150 but a seller had it mislabeled on eBay. Under $20 delivered.

http://www.mitutoyo.com/TerminalMerchandisingGroup.aspx?group=1280


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