# Surefire Minimus vs Zebralight H600 MK II LX2, feedback and opinions please.



## 46Alpha (Jun 29, 2014)

I've been using a Fenix HL10 headlamp for about a year. I need an upgrade. My hope had been to find a small 16340 headlamp with a warm tint for under $100. My use is all over the map. I use it for working on bike/car/truck in low light, around the house when I need both hands, outside when I close up the pool after dark, when I need to clear the driveway at 0 dark 30 and so on. I'd like a simple, easy to use interface with a good combo of spill and throw. I know there's no one "do-it-all" light, but I'm trying to hit a sweet spot.

As 16340 lights seem to be scarce, I've narrowed it down to the Surefire Minimus and the H600w. I can get both for right about the same money, so....

SF Pros:
-It's a SureFire. I have about 20 or so SF lights. Helmet, hand held and weapon mounted. NONE of them have ever let me down. On the off chance I have a problem, help is a phone call away.
-No 16340, but I like the CR123 as well. 

Cons:
-Less than stellar reviews. It seems this design still needs some tweaking.
-I would have to pay substantially more for the Vision, and I really like a warm tint. A headlamp with a Nichia 219? I'm in!
-From what I've seen, it's more suited to in close. I'd like to be able to see 25 to 30 yards clearly. 

Zebralight Pros:
-I've never owned a Zebralight product, so I can only go off of what I've read, but they seem to be well liked.
-Output is impressive. Even with a warm tint, this little guy seems to be a powerhouse.
-I already own 18650's and a good charger, so it's an easy fit.

Cons:
-Some questions on QC and durability. Bad anno and some reports of not being fully watertight. This is an issue, it NEEDS to be fully submersible. I don't need a dive light, but it needs to withstand a quick dip in the pool or snowblowing my driveway in the middle of a nor'easter. 
-18650 is a bit big for my needs. I understand that much output needs to be fed, but I'd really prefer a smaller form factor.
-That interface is silly complex. WAY more than I need. I'd be happy with high and low. I'm not a fan of having to push and hold, double click, spin around and touch my toes. And that button looks a bit small to be doing that with wet hands or with gloves. 

I'd love to hear any thoughts or opinions on either of these lights. If you have a better suggestion for under $100 that can take a beating, I'd love to hear that as well.


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## Ladp.1 (Jul 18, 2014)

I can't comment on the Surefire as I don't have one. I do have a Zebralight H600w and H600fw MII along with a couple variants of the H51. If I where you, I would go with the Zebralight. Here's why:


Runtime for the Surefire is 1.5 hours at 100 lumens on a $2 battery. The new H600's will go for 11 hours at 150 lumens on a 3400mah rechargeable. That's my most used mode and it runs much longer than I've ever needed it to at that level and, yes, I did a runtime test.

The H600's really aren't that big and don't look any larger than the Minimus, though that's just looking at pictures. 

The w versions I have have a really nice tint (my opinion).

The user interface really isn't that complicated and, at least how I tend to use a headlamp, I just turn it on to the level I want and it stays there for a while.

I've never had a problem with any of my 7 Zebralights and they are all really nice quality.


Are mine waterproof? I don't know as I've never dunked any of mine. They have been rained on though with no ill effects. The only downside I can see is that you won't be getting the Surefire warranty and customer service with a Zebralight but I haven't need it anyway.


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## Roger Ranger (Jul 18, 2014)

I bought a Minimus for my wife. Then I purchased some of the CR123 Zebralights. Never looked back. Unfortunately, Zebralight stopped making the little H31 series CR123 lights. I own 2 H600 Mk2's. (Frosted, clear) Loaded, the H600 weighs 124 grams. The H31 weighs 76 grams. The Minimus weighs 126 grams. 

In my opinion, the Minimus puts out a nicer, floody beam than other the other lights I own. I also own a Nitecore HC50 and a Sparks ST6 (both 18650). The infinite variable of the Minimus is very nice. If you work in an area that is "close" and requires moonlight changing to full brightness, the Minimus is nice. 

BUT, HOWEVER... The Zebralight 18650's have a very nice moonlight mode, a decent UI that gives you 3 levels, each with a low/high level, and 1,000 lumens at the high end. I don't care how much the manufacturers inflate lumens, there is no comparison between the Minimus and the H600 series, if you are interested in seeing more than 20 feet. 

Rant and rave:

I used to to only buy Surefire. However, they have allowed themselves to get blown out of the market by "junk" , Chinese lights that turn out to be rather excellent. Eagletac, Spark, Nitecore, Zebralight, Fenix, Thrunite, etc. have turned Surefire into a dinosaur in the industry. 

I would pay pay thrice the price for Surefire products as I pay for the Chinese lights. Problem is, Surefire just does not offer any products that compare to these "junk" brands. TM26, TM36, D25C, TN32, and on and on...

I AM SO PISSED OFF!


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## cland72 (Jul 18, 2014)

I only own the Minimus Vision, so I can't speak to the Zebralight. I like the minimus because it puts out a HUGE swath of light (like, everywhere your peripheral vision sees), and the infinitely variable brightness control is the bee's knees. Yeah, it isn't the brightest headlamp, but it just plain works for everything I want to do with it. IMO, if you're needing to see 20+ yards away, you're going to be better served by carrying a handheld light to supplement your headlamp. 

As for the design flaws/tweaks that need to be made, the only thing that kind of bugs me is, on occasion, I'll notice a ring of light on my nose if I have the light aimed low enough. That being said, it isn't a deal breaker.


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## Roger Ranger (Jul 18, 2014)

I agree. I would amend my comments to say that, with the Minimus Vision's aspherical (or whatever it is called) lens, it is superior for inside-the-house work.


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## P_A_S_1 (Jul 18, 2014)

Outdoor Gear Lab did a review on various headlamps recently including the Minimus, which I have. They gave the Minimus a somewhat low review based on it's price, runtime, and lack of throw when compared to other lights. They did emphasize it's effectiveness for close up rating it high in that aspect. Here is the link if interested;

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Headlamp-Reviews


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## Roger Ranger (Jul 19, 2014)

My, my, my... I'm in no way a headlamp expert. However, I notice that there are a few headlamps MISSING from their list. Like ALL of the really nice ones. I know that strapping an 18650 headlamp to one's forehead is an act of faith.(in the quality of the 18650!) However, I would take my H600's (one spare, as poop happens) with a 4 pack of fresh 18650's, into some very dark places, with confidence. There are some pretty fine headlamps out there. I don't see any of them on the outdoorgearlab list. It's as if they did a K Mart light list review.


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## ganymede (Jul 19, 2014)

cland72 said:


> I only own the Minimus Vision, so I can't speak to the Zebralight. I like the minimus because it puts out a HUGE swath of light (like, everywhere your peripheral vision sees), and the infinitely variable brightness control is the bee's knees. Yeah, it isn't the brightest headlamp, but it just plain works for everything I want to do with it. IMO, if you're needing to see 20+ yards away, you're going to be better served by carrying a handheld light to supplement your headlamp.
> 
> As for the design flaws/tweaks that need to be made, the only thing that kind of bugs me is, on occasion, I'll notice a ring of light on my nose if I have the light aimed low enough. That being said, it isn't a deal breaker.



+1!

For me a headlamp is best suited for close up tasks. If I want throw, I will reach for my hand held lights.


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## pblanch (Jul 19, 2014)

My ZL H51 has never let me down. Not as bright as the H600 (which I dont own) but the combo of light weight and great run times is perfect for me. Has taken a beating over the years but was only relegated to the emergency bag (how reliable do I think it is that I want it for an emergency) by my SC51. AA batteries are a lot easier to find for me in Australia. 

I agree with ganymede if I wanted more throw I would grab a handheld, but seriously the throw is fine for a H51 (updated model now H52) especially for what you want. I used my h51 in an underground mine when my handheld Jetbeam PA40 was taken from me by a Geologist (his LED monstrosity gave up the ghost after 15min !!- I was surprised as well - I only gave it up as he was making the money and needed to check out formations) and performed admirable for the 2 hours we were down there after my cap lamp just wasn't cutting it. And yes I was wandering aout the place away from the geo talk (yawn)


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## P_A_S_1 (Jul 20, 2014)

Roger Ranger said:


> My, my, my... I'm in no way a headlamp expert. However, I notice that there are a few headlamps MISSING from their list. Like ALL of the really nice ones. I know that strapping an 18650 headlamp to one's forehead is an act of faith.(in the quality of the 18650!) However, I would take my H600's (one spare, as poop happens) with a 4 pack of fresh 18650's, into some very dark places, with confidence. There are some pretty fine headlamps out there. I don't see any of them on the outdoorgearlab list. It's as if they did a K Mart light list review.



Yes it's not a flasholic review site so the brands we're accustom may not be represented however it's a review of the more common lights used by the majority. The information is based on the reviews of those in that community and by no means an absolute but I thought the information provided was still useful. YMMV


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## Roger Ranger (Jul 20, 2014)

They missed an opportunity to expose their readers to some outstanding headlamps.


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## P_A_S_1 (Jul 20, 2014)

46Alpha, I have a Minimus which I've used for quite a while now. Don't have the Zebralight. The Minimus currently lives in the car for emergency use (hands free for roadside issues) and is taken out mostly for hiking where I've found it to be pretty good even with it's lack of throw. Spotting distance marking with it is challenging so taking a throwy handheld would be a good idea. One common complaint of the Minimus line is the lens produces some light to backscatter and produce a prism like effect onto the users nose/face. At first I didn't notice this on my light but now I do and it's a little annoying. Whether the light shines directly into the eyes affecting the night vision, IDK, haven't been able to determine that yet. Other complaints I have are the lack of a lock out on the battery tube like other SF lights. This would be welcomed because there is a small electronic drain with these lights and long term storage can result in a heavily depleted battery, storing the battery separate is an option but a lock out would be much better. Bulky for a single CR123, the first generation was smaller and lighter, the current generation is more robust but not as compact. I've read those that had both preferred the original size. Personally I'm fine with the size as is although smaller/lighter would be better. While I'm not unhappy with the light it's far from perfect and can use a few tweaks.


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## thedoc007 (Jul 20, 2014)

I pretty much agree with Roger Ranger...Surefire has not kept up with the competition. For the price, you would expect more. Reliability is great, but if you have an otherwise inferior product, is that enough? I tend to think not, since there are plenty of other companies who do make reliable products AND offer better performance. 

I would buy the Zebralight via PayPal or with a credit card, and do a simple submersion test. If it fails, and Zebralight fails to make it right, you can simply dispute the charge...you are NOT responsible for a defective product. Both my SC52 and my SC600 passed the water test just fine. It is my understanding that Zebralight has changed the anodizing, and that SHOULD no longer be an issue. If it is, see above. If you have the problem early, it should be easy to resolve. Worst case, you can just buy the Surefire if the Zebralight doesn't live up to your expectations, but I think it will.

As to the inferface, I think you are worrying over nothing. I can't remember a single person, EVER, who disliked the Zebralight system after they got used to it. It is different than other interfaces, and is in no way a tactical interface, but it is one of the absolute best to use for everyday tasks. 

Let us know what you decide...


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## 46Alpha (Jul 22, 2014)

Just to follow up, I ended up getting the Zebralight H52FW. The ease of being able to use Enloops, a 14500 or a standard AA was too tempting to pass on. Even more so when the cost was factored in. 

I was impressed at how quickly ZL shipped, and I started using it right away. After three weeks of use, all I can say is Meh. 

The build quality is a bit cheap. I think I could deform the body if I squeezed it too hard. The tail cap feels like a bottle cap. The user interface is total crap. Why anyone would want to sit there clicking through all the modes, I have no idea. I turn it on high and leave it that way for the most part. The press and hold to cycle thru L-M-H is somewhat useful. The headband has two hotspots that leave indents in my forehead if worn for more than a few minutes. And this thing gets HOT. Like set my hair on fire hot. Even after the step down, after about five minutes on high I could feel the heat radiating from the head of the light.

All that being said, it works. I love the floody beam the frosted lens provides and the tint is nice. Runtime on a fully charged 14500 is impressive (I got just shy of two hours on high). It's small and easy to slip in the pocket when it's not being used. I haven't tried to test how it would handle a dunking, and I'll try to avoid it. For a utility light, this thing is great. I would never want it as my EDC/SHTF light. I simply don't trust it to stand up to much abuse. 

A great example, we lost power during a bad t-storm two weeks ago and I needed to get into the attic crawl space late at night (small leak). It's a tight area and I'm not a small guy. You need to move carefully between ceiling joists. It was about 110 up there and even though the ZL felt like it was going to melt the head band straps, it did what I needed it to. I did have to shut it off for a few seconds because of the heat. I was glad I had a backup light in my pocket. 

So I'm happy with it for what it is. It's not high end, but it doesn't cost that much. I would call it the Spyderco of lights. Damn good stuff for the money. It'll never replace my XM18, but it costs quite a bit less.

I don't see me buying another ZL unless this one gets broken/stolen/eaten by sharks. And I don't see me replacing any of my EDC lights with a ZL, but it's not a bad little light. But if ZL came out with a 123 sized light that could take 16340's and CR123's? Yea, I'd buy it just for giggles.

And maybe I'm just a gear snob with unnaturally high expectations. :naughty:


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## cland72 (Jul 22, 2014)

Good review. How much was the ZL?

I had to wear my Minimus Sunday afternoon in my attic for about an hour or so while I ran CAT5 cable, and it worked great. The forehead pad is nice and soft, and the light, even being used on high, didn't get hot (at least, not that I noticed).


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## Roger Ranger (Jul 22, 2014)

ZL stopped making CR123 lights, and shame on them! I own 2 of these lights, and they are wonderful. The H600's and the SC600 that I own, being 18650's, just blow away CR123 or 14500 lights for power and battery capacity. Just a little bit bigger. The design of the SC600 series ensures that the light will not turn on accidental. I don't use the sub-sub-levels on the lights, just the 6 levels (3 with 2 choices for each level). I often cycle between the subs of levels 1 and 3. They can keep level 2; I don't use it. Too bad the AA model feels cheap. The 18650 models are built like tanks.


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## P_A_S_1 (Jul 22, 2014)

Good luck on the light, nice review. 




46Alpha said:


> .......I would call it the Spyderco of lights.



OT but I thought Spyderco was considered a high end manufacturer, no?


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## Roger Ranger (Jul 22, 2014)

OT but I thought Spyderco was considered a high end manufacturer, no?[/QUOTE]

Good Japanese (meaning VERY good) production knife. Because there is no stigma (yet) associated with knives, custom and high end manufactured knives are crazy good. Spiderco is very good. IMO

Whoops! Haven't dealt with Spyderco knives since the '90's. Looked around the web just now. Consider the above comments 15 yrs out of date. (Consider ALL of my comments 15 years out of date.) I adore the Spyderco Viele.


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## P_A_S_1 (Jul 22, 2014)

OK, thanks.


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## thedoc007 (Jul 22, 2014)

Roger Ranger said:


> OT but I thought Spyderco was considered a high end manufacturer, no?



Spyderco has a wide variety of models, some manufactured in the USA (generally the more expensive/higher quality ones) and some manufactured overseas. Some of them are extremely high quality, some are decent...pretty much all of them are good value. Spyderco and Benchmade are in my opinion the best non-custom manufactured knife brands (of the mainstream brands). I would definitely not equate them to Zebralight, in the flashlight realm. Zebralight is known to have a number of quality control issues...if you get a good one, generally, it will last, but apparently there are too many defective units not getting caught before they are sold. As far as I know, Spyderco does not have that problem.


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## 46Alpha (Jul 22, 2014)

Sorry, my comparing of Spyderco to ZL was a bit misunderstood. Spyderco makes truly outstanding knives. They are one of the best value conscious knife makers going right now, with KAI being second. I own about 50 Spyderco knives, they are hard to beat. But when you stack them against the XM 18, or the VECP, Sebenza, SnG or any other higher end knife, they don't compare. Again, you can't beat Spyderco for the money. 

I was trying to make the value vs cost correlation. 

Chris, I ordered directly from ZL, it was $64.


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## thedoc007 (Jul 22, 2014)

46Alpha said:


> Sorry, my comparing of Spyderco to ZL was a bit misunderstood. Spyderco makes truly outstanding knives. They are one of the best value conscious knife makers going right now, with KAI being second. I own about 50 Spyderco knives, they are hard to beat. But when you stack them against the XM 18, or the VECP, Sebenza, SnG or any other higher end knife, they don't compare. Again, you can't beat Spyderco for the money.
> 
> I was trying to make the value vs cost correlation.



Understood, and I agree 100%. Thanks for the clarification.


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## Brasso (Jul 22, 2014)

I have a Zebralight H51fw and a Minimus Vision. I use the Zebra all the time around the house. The Surefire would be more of a hiking, outdoor light. I just don't trust the robustness of the Zebralight for rough outdoor uses. I'm not saying it would fail, but it doesn't inspire confidence. The Minimus may not have has many bells and whistles, but I trust that it will work when needed. I think which one you need comes down to what you need it for. Zebralight is perfectly capable under normal circumstances and great for doing chores around the house. The Minimus is built like a tank.

That's my opinion.


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## 46Alpha (Jul 22, 2014)

Brasso said:


> I have a Zebralight H51fw and a Minimus Vision. I use the Zebra all the time around the house. The Surefire would be more of a hiking, outdoor light. I just don't trust the robustness of the Zebralight for rough outdoor uses. I'm not saying it would fail, but it doesn't inspire confidence. The Minimus may not have has many bells and whistles, but I trust that it will work when needed. I think which one you need comes down to what you need it for. Zebralight is perfectly capable under normal circumstances and great for doing chores around the house. The Minimus is built like a tank.
> 
> That's my opinion.



100% agree. I'm still keeping my eyes open for a SF Minimus either used or for short money. Many people fault SF for the 'lack of features' but honestly it's one of the reason I love them so much. Only what you need, in a bomb-proof package. KISS.

If I can score a Minimus, I'll be sure to post a more thorough comparison. But I'm a big fan of neutral tints, so that means a Vision. And they seem to be hard to come by.


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## pblanch (Jul 22, 2014)

Did you have the Zl on H1 as they can get hot. I always put it on H2 on all my ZL's to extend the life of the battery. I went away from using 14500 in all of my lights as the higher high does generate a lot of heat (as you describe) and is just not useful to me. And if I wanted to use a Liion I would use a bigger torch and not a headlamp. 

Its a shame you didn't like it. I love all of my ZL. The flexibility that I have found with them is outstanding.


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## 46Alpha (Jul 24, 2014)

pblanch said:


> Did you have the Zl on H1 as they can get hot. I always put it on H2 on all my ZL's to extend the life of the battery. I went away from using 14500 in all of my lights as the higher high does generate a lot of heat (as you describe) and is just not useful to me. And if I wanted to use a Liion I would use a bigger torch and not a headlamp.
> 
> Its a shame you didn't like it. I love all of my ZL. The flexibility that I have found with them is outstanding.



It's not as much as I didn't like. Just underwhelmed a bit. I continue to use it daily and it still gets the job done.

And I love the Venture Bro's and RC references. Two of my favorites. I keep hoping for another season of VB's.


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## pblanch (Jul 25, 2014)

We all have our favorites and is usually hard to go past them. Understandable.


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## chadvone (Jan 10, 2015)

This has been a good read. I wonder if the OP is still using his Zebralight.

How is it holding up ?

Would also like to let him know there is a R/CR123 version available


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