# GID planetarium in your home w/pic



## greenlight (Mar 11, 2007)

Here's a fun project that you can do in your home. I just bought some *Ultra green glow paint* from GLOWinc, maybe I'll try it on a project like this. Could be fun to do with a friend so you don't get bored and can actually finish the project.

Here's a photo of the starfield in my living room.. It's not the best picture, but you get the idea. I left the UV light on to exaggerate the effect for the camera. The glow in the right corner is from the UV light, but it does show off the milky way that was airbrushed in.:










It's a really nice starfield that you want to show off to your guests. The artist had a projector to get the stars right, and he spent 6 hours hand painting them. I think he even used a compass to line up the constellations for N/S. He did have a special tool to apply the dots, but I never saw it, and for all I know it was just a chopstick. I think it's a special tool that applies the paint to the ceiling without it dripping down on you.

It was during the 80s, so the GID isn't very bright. And I have cracks from earthquakes or settling and I haven't painted the room yet partially because I don't want to paint over the starfield!

For the really compulsive, this could be a fun project. Here are some planetarium items on Ebay. There are different products, likely one of them will project a nice starfield to copy. Maybe someone has one that they can review?

The one drawback with the stars is that you have to charge them to show them off, but you also need to get your guest(s) to prepare for the viewing. This usually means leaving them in a dark room while the stars are charging so their eyes become dark adapted. Then you turn off all the lights and lead them into the viewing room thru the darkened house. It's kind of awkward  , but the results are worth it. Another way is to go for a walk at night. When you return home, quickly turn out the lights before your guests enter. 

Here's a link to the company that does this.. I think the guy in the video is actually the person who did our living room. Here's the full package.

The artists are secretive about their technique (they paid enough for it)  . My guess is that the first few hundred stars and some galaxies are accurately represented, and then the artist just goes and fills in the rest of the area with a random application of dots. When the room is done and you get to preview your new 'planetarium', the artist will take a laser pointer and point out some constellations that you recognise. There is no way to accurately verify what's there, but it all looks good.

SKYWLKR wanted some better pics, so I took some that show the texture in the ceiling to give some reference:




Here's the same shot, no flash:




This is a closeup of the wall. 
You can see the border where the stars stop:




The dots are small, like the size of a smilie. The larger ones are around 5cm apart. There is some spatter that results in much smaller dots. They're almost invisible, yet the eye picks them out and they look like more distant stars. Having different sized dots adds to the realism of the project.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 11, 2007)

LOL....this actually seems like a more interesting thing for sale on EBay.

Here's a video....apparently this is a serious device, not really a toy.

I think I might get one of these...it projects about a 9-10 foot diameter display...and would have the advantage of a brighter 3W projected light.


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## DUQ (Mar 11, 2007)

Wow thats cool greenlight.


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## Sigman (Mar 12, 2007)

This is something I've always wanted to do to one of my rooms. The supplies aren't that expensive (GlowInc or one of our other GID vendors), it's the process & time that costs. Those the come to you your house want a "pretty penny" to do it.

I've been in a "Starscapes" demo room at a home show and it was fantastic! I sent the company requests for info a couple times and they will bombard you with information via email over and over and over and over and over......and over and over and over and over...did I say over and over and over and over?

Who knows how to do this and can "clue us in?

Maybe this planetarium would be a better choice?


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 12, 2007)

Well they would have to either do it with stencils, or some kind of projector that gives them a "paint by number" sort of spots. If it is a repeating pattern, I could also imagine a large roller that had specific screen holes that would appear somewhat random, or they might go over it several times. I cannot imagine they would have a system where someone has to individually dab each star one at a time.

I can tell you one thing though...if I ever had someone do this, I would install a hidden video camera to watch their system. You could get some idea by the materials they bring into the room.

That avalanche of emails is consistent with the rinky-dink website they have...which indicates to me that this is a very low tech operation.


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## greenlight (Mar 12, 2007)

That's a good idea. They're very secretive about their process, the room was completely sealed during the session.

It's not a stencil, all the stars are individually applied. A projector is used. It's no repeating pattern, as the entire night sky is intended to be seen. The constellations are a little bit brighter so they stand out from the background stars. Since you can recognize the constellations, it really looks like the night sky, and not just a random starscape. I think the most recognized constellations are in the summer sky, like Orion and Ursa Major.

The important thing is finding the right applicator. You need a tool that will apply a small dot of paint to a ceiling without having to stop each time to dip your brush.

I'm glad I didn't email them, if I do I'll use a throwaway email address.


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## Tritium (Mar 12, 2007)

http://www.riskreactor.com/Glow_In_The_Dark_Paint/Glow_Paint_Data_Sheets/Star_Kit_Glow_Mural_Maker.htm

Entire northern hemisphere.

Thurmond


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 12, 2007)

Tritium said:


> http://www.riskreactor.com/Glow_In_The_Dark_Paint/Glow_Paint_Data_Sheets/Star_Kit_Glow_Mural_Maker.htm
> 
> Entire northern hemisphere.
> 
> Thurmond



LOL! Now you're talking....a $50 solution with stencils that I'm sure will turn out as well as the $5,000 scam. I'm ordering it now. There is also a whole page about doing it at GlowInc here.


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## DaveNagy (Mar 13, 2007)

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the whole ceiling-starfield biz seems somewhat "scammy". I got interested in doing a starfield myself, and so I did some Google research to find out how it is done. There are several sites that promise to teach you how to do it, thereby allowing you to Make Money Fast by whipping out $500 starfields in two hours flat. And of course that leads to any number of _other_ websites seeking that $500... 

But yeah, it's not rocket science. There's two ways to do an "accurate" field. Either with a stencil, or with a projector. I'm sure those toy planetarium projectors would be totally adequate to allow you to rough in at least the brightest stars. I think the stencils would be easier in the long run since you could more easily do the ceiling one manageable chunk at a time, and you could have the lights turned on while you were doing it! A good thing IMO, when you're balancing on top of a ladder. 

 These are the "best" stencils I've found so far. 12' x 12' is a decent size, since I figure one could just "fake it" around the edges. Of course, they are *spectacularly* vague about the specifics. Would it kill them to mention how many stars are in the "field"? 50? 10,000? And of course, you should throw any paint they supply into the nearest trash can, and buy something decent from GlowInc.

If anybody has any experiance with that brand of stencil, I'd love to hear your reaction.

I ordered some of that new super bright green glow paint, and then decided to get a sample of their blue paint as well. The blue is barely a quarter as bright as the new green, but if it's bright _enough_, then it might be a more star-like color. I'll try them both out on pieces of paper stuck to the ceiling. (This will be in the initial phase where I'm attempting to gain spousal approval for the whole crazy idea.)

I'm hoping that I can "charge" the stars using one of my UV (LED) flashlights. If so, that might work pretty well since it shouldn't destroy one's nightvision as quickly as turning on the regular lights would.


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## greenlight (Mar 13, 2007)

The stencil looks good, although a projector might be better if you are planning on extending the stars halfway down the walls, too. 

I don't think it's a 5000$ scam; they're helping you start your own business; it's not multi-level marketing (ok, it might be, but you don't expect your customers to become agents) or a pyramid scheme. Plus, it's clearly stated that the artists charge around 500$/ room. For some, that might be worth paying to avoid the hassle of DIY. Others will try it themselves. Just don't make any mistakes!!!


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## Strauss (Mar 13, 2007)

That looks pretty cool! Reminds me of my room when I was a little kid and I had a bunch of those "cheesey" GID stars stuck to my ceiling :laughing:


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 13, 2007)

DaveNagy said:


> Yeah, it's unfortunate that the whole ceiling-starfield biz seems somewhat "scammy". I got interested in doing a starfield myself, and so I did some Google research to find out how it is done. There are several sites that promise to teach you how to do it, thereby allowing you to Make Money Fast by whipping out $500 starfields in two hours flat. And of course that leads to any number of _other_ websites seeking that $500...
> 
> But yeah, it's not rocket science. There's two ways to do an "accurate" field. Either with a stencil, or with a projector. I'm sure those toy planetarium projectors would be totally adequate to allow you to rough in at least the brightest stars. I think the stencils would be easier in the long run since you could more easily do the ceiling one manageable chunk at a time, and you could have the lights turned on while you were doing it! A good thing IMO, when you're balancing on top of a ladder.
> 
> ...



Good link. OK, I ordered this one and the one from GlowInc...and I'll take some pictures of them both for comparison. Also I was thinking you could mix green & blue in different ratios to get some interesting effects. That $300 projector has color film slides that project, which probably would be interesting. 

Greenlight, sorry I know you likely paid thousands of dollars for your ceiling, so it's hard not to take our criticism of that "scam-looking" website with endless clicks personally. I still say if that was a professional operation, they would not be resorting to their cheesy website design with all the lame "noob" type hooks to suck people in. Obviously this is something easy to do and teach, so they are trying to make a fast buck with their "teaching the secrets" marketing to the gullible. 

When I said "Amway" I didn't mean to imply this is multi-level marketing or pyramid type scheme...rather that it has that same 'smoke and mirrors' type presentation of having to turn it into a HUGE MEGA LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER MARKETING -- BUY A 200' BOAT & FIVE VACATION HOMES opportunity.


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## greenlight (Mar 13, 2007)

No offense. My mom bought the 'art' back in the 80's. We have enjoyed it since. It seemed like a cool gimmick at the time, no one else had it.

I just found the 'scam' website last week when the subject came up. I'm not making money promoting their agenda; I'm just googling sources for CPFers to check out. 

You should get some information about mixing glow paints before you do it. I'm sure it's been done before and I'm sure there is a reason it is not offered as an option.

The whole project is a fair amount of work, but I think if it is done well the results should be satisfying. 

Don't forget to add a shooting star or comet somewhere. Unfortunately red glow doesn't last long, so Mars isn't much of an option. Or a special secret one. 

I just painted my ceiling white, and I keep looking at it and thinking about doing this project. Maybe if one of you gets really good at it you can come over and do mine too.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 13, 2007)

OK....I'll even give you a special deal. $4,500 !


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## greenlight (Mar 13, 2007)

I meant for free.


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## Sigman (Mar 13, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> OK....I'll even give you a special deal. $4,500 !


Oh you want US to pay YOU? I thought it was the other way around so as to allow you to gain some experience on your way to the halls of fortune!


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 13, 2007)

No, you both are confused, and apparently not understanding the basis of capitalism. LOL!


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## SKYWLKR (Mar 15, 2007)

Hm...

I started a LED, Fiber-optic 6 foot star portal dome ,but havent finished it yet. I have most of the Constelations in and a lot of the Mily way done but I have not finished it nor want to cut up my ceiling to install it...

Any one have close ups of the work done or pics of the work with a UV light and a regular light on to see the detail?

This might be a great way to get a star feild in my budget Theater.


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## greenlight (Mar 15, 2007)

Sounds like a trippy project...

I took some photos to more clearly show my 'stars'. They're in the original post.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 15, 2007)

greenlight said:


> Sounds like a trippy project...
> 
> I took some photos to more clearly show my 'stars'. They're in the original post.



Yeah that gives a much better idea. It will be interesting to see what these two sets of stencils look like.


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## SKYWLKR (Mar 15, 2007)

I cant see the pics, no x or any thing just not there.


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## greenlight (Mar 15, 2007)

Maybe you can see them if you raise your blast shield, Luke!!


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## DaveNagy (Mar 17, 2007)

Thanks for the additional pics, greenlight! Nicely done.

The "dots" are smaller than I was expecting. Closer together, too. Very interesting.


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## gnubee (Mar 18, 2007)

maybe they are using paint with an uv dependent binder. put the paint everywhere and use an ultraviolet bulb in your projector to burn it in. wash off the rest or maybe it just isnt gid without being uv activated. or something like that. if this is in any way possible it would look awesome. also wouldnt want anyone around w/o eye protection+would be a trade secret worth paying for. could carry in some brushes to make it look like they were being used.


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## Toohotruk (Mar 19, 2007)

Strauss said:


> That looks pretty cool! Reminds me of my room when I was a little kid and I had a bunch of those "cheesey" GID stars stuck to my ceiling


 
LOL!





My bedroom ceiling actually has a bunch of those "cheesy" GID stars stuck to it!





One night after a few (OK more than a few) drinks, I spent a couple of hours sticking them up there...looks kind of cool if you squint a little, but once in awhile one of them falls off...one morning I looked in the mirror to find one stuck to my cheek...Glad I noticed it before I went to work!





Some of us never grow up...


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## gnubee (Mar 20, 2007)

thinking more on this.... strobing the projector would greatly facilitate the painting.


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## greenlight (Mar 20, 2007)

If you mean to see the GID dots, you could also use a UV light in addition to check your progress.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 21, 2007)

OK, got the first of the two kits I ordered. This one is from RiskReactor. Basically 3 jars of glow paint that you add more "booster powder" to them when you are ready to paint. They have 16 stencil panels that are each marked with A1, A2, A3, A4, B1, B2, etc etc and can be taped or thumbtacked to the ceiling/wall. Each have various size holes in them, and are 35" x 24" (almost 2' x 3') Their paint is water soluable and in several shades of blue & yellow/green. Here are some pictures you can click on for larger images.


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## greenlight (Mar 21, 2007)

"Do not paint directly overhead to prevent a drop on you."

Wouldn't be so bad.

Let's see how easy it is to attach the stencil to the ceiling. Maybe you could mark the stars with a pencil and paint over the dots...

You might need the coffee if you stay up all night doing the project.


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## SKYWLKR (Mar 21, 2007)

I have that same stencil kit from a walmart set of stick stars!

I have an image rendered ready to go on my pc, that I will project with my projector, ready of me and my wifes anniversary night star scape.

just need the glow stuff now...


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 21, 2007)

I'm gonna wait for the other kit to see that one too, but wanted you guys to see how this one worked. Seems like these stencils have pretty spaced out stars. I'd probably add a bunch of smaller ones too. I would likely do one stencil panel and see how it looks by itself.

I also got a 22" blacklight from these guys....omg....now I just saw all the urine stains on the carpet from when I thought my dog was better trained as a puppy. He's lucky that was years ago. :scowl:


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## Sigman (Mar 21, 2007)

Lux, I indeed appreciate you keeping us informed and the pics as well. This is something I've always wanted to do and I'll anxiously follow this thread! You da' man!! :thumbsup:

So they send you a bag-o-java from Sweet Maria's as well, eh?!


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 21, 2007)

I wonder how many people roast their own coffee? That is the single greatest joy I get from various hobbies...and it's sooo easy to do.


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## greenlight (Mar 21, 2007)

SKYWLKR said:


> I have that same stencil kit from a walmart set of stick stars!
> 
> I have an image rendered ready to go on my pc, that I will project with my projector, ready of me and my wifes anniversary night star scape.
> 
> just need the glow stuff now...




How wide is the projector's beam? Does it fill the whole ceiling?


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## Blinding (Mar 22, 2007)

We did a cheap and simple version of this in my son's room years ago. It was a kit of GID stickers. There were stars, planets, and comets. His room light was flouresent so when he shut off the light to go to sleep they were already charged. 
We made no attempt to make it accurate to the real sky.

That room is the guest room now so visitors get a surprise when the lights go out.


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## SKYWLKR (Mar 22, 2007)

The projector makes about a 10 foot by 8 foot screen, and I have the image of an 10 foot circle with 12" knocked off the east and west side.

I am also thinking of splitting the image into 1/4 and then indexing them to cover a 20X16 area.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 23, 2007)

OK, got the other kit today. It is very similar to the first one, but one fortuitous thing, is they sent me the summer sky, so now I have both.

These guys use 5 stencils made out of the same thin paper, but they are longer. 2.5' x 12' marked as A, B, C, D, E (12'x12' if you use them all). They give you a package of some kind of putty called Tack-It, but probably thumbtacks would be better. Their small jar of paint seems pretty inadequate, and it has pretty weak glowing....so maybe a base to add 'REAL' glow powder to.

One tip they have in their instructions which I liked is to create a galaxy by diluting their paint with 2 parts water, then use a stiff toothbrush, dip and stroke it with your thumb to spray lots of fine, small particles.

Both of these kits really ONLY have dots that match up with the blue constellation points that you can see...so however many stars that is. I would likely try to find a little bigger brush, and probably do more of a weaker, more diluted fine spray so you get the feeling of the billions of stars out there, but use their toothbrush idea for the actual milky way galaxy which you can see on the blue chart.


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## greenlight (Mar 23, 2007)

I like the video projector idea. That's more customizable than either stencils or a toy planetarium. The sky layout doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough to recognize some constellations.

Now that I think of it, you could paint something other than stars with the projector. How about a giant Jimi Hendrix shilouette with stars?


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 23, 2007)

Jimmy Hendrix on my ceiling....I'm already nauseous thinking about it.

The problem I see with a projector, other than the one I linked earlier, which several sources do not describe as a toy...is most projectors even if placed on the floor, and assuming you had a well made slide/positive cellulose print are not going to spread out enough to cover a large 12'x12' area...then I can't even imagine trying to paint them all in dark enough to see the detail from the projector. You would need a pretty dramatic fisheye lens which I have not seen on typical classroom projectors. You have to expand the image to 12x12 from a floor to ceiling distance of only 8-9'

These two stencil sets are basically what you have on your ceiling, shown on the first page. I think if they were enhanced with the thumb spraying on a brush technique, it would look pretty realistic. I would not just want to have the constellations only.


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## SKYWLKR (Mar 23, 2007)

This is an LCD projector. I can make it display anything...


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 24, 2007)

SKYWLKR said:


> This is an LCD projector. I can make it display anything...



That sounds interesting...you have a link of what it is?


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## greenlight (Mar 24, 2007)

*LCD projector*


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 24, 2007)

That looks pretty cool, but even on their website, I can't find how much the image projects to in about 7 feet if you put it on the floor to project up to the ceiling (my ceilings are 8 feet high) to get an accurate star display for painting.

I might buy one of those Sega projectors to see how that looks.


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## greenlight (Mar 25, 2007)

It's not meant to be a global projector... I think that's why skywlkr mentioned doing the project in quadrants. That would be easy to do, the stars don't have to match up perfectly. Just the major constellations, and they don't have to be perfectly oriented, either.


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## 65535 (Mar 29, 2007)

Get a planetarium projector, cover your ceiling in light reactive GID paint that cures when exposed to light, maybe even UV. Cure it overnight, then wash all the uncured paint. It would work if you can find UV curing GID paint that WON'T cure without UV exposure.


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## greenlight (Mar 29, 2007)

In theory that sounds nice but in practice i'm sure it's not the best method. Besides already having the super bright glow paint to apply the dots, the paint that you are describing might be expensive for covering the whole area, and you waste so much by washing it off, assuming that it comes off. You're supposed to wash around the glowing area? How do you see it? In the dark? It might not be bright enough with just one coat. Plus you have to paint the room in the dark? And maybe the whole ceiling glows now.

Having the EXACT stellar projection is not a necessity, since one only recognizes the constellations. The rest of the starfield is just random dots to fill out the scene and make it look realistic. Plus the inexactness of the technique (getting the intensity of different stars accurately) leads you to some creative ways to compensate.

It's not a tough project, I wonder who will complete his first?


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## DaveNagy (Mar 30, 2007)

I'd like to at least START on mine. Come on, UPS!

So, LuxLuthor, would you recommend this stencil as the one to get? (Assuming I want a starfield that's at least 12' x 12'.)

I'm trying to imagine what an incredible (glowing) mess I would make if I tried to spatter-paint my ceiling with a toothbrush. But my mind just boggles.  Perhaps I need to invest in an airbrush? I've always wanted one anyhow. Can they be made to "spatter"? It would be nice if there was a way to lay down thousands of teensy-weensy stars.

Ah!


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 30, 2007)

DaveNagy said:


> I'd like to at least START on mine. Come on, UPS!
> 
> So, LuxLuthor, would you recommend this stencil as the one to get? (Assuming I want a starfield that's at least 12' x 12'.)
> 
> ...



Keep in mind that the stencils basically just give you the points of the named constellations, so if that matters most, then start with the stencil. If you don't care about constellations, then honestly you could just do random stars with a small, stiff brush. As far as the toothbrush, it's not going to be hard to do once you practice your technique on something, and hold a large piece of cardboard underneath to catch drops.

Problem I see with the airbrush is the cost of the airbrush, paint, and/or powder if you mix your own, and learning curve of using it. Whenever I get around to this, I'm sure I will do it over a number of nights....starting with the stencil constellations, then adding a bunch of smaller stars with smaller brush & dilluted paint. Then another step will be the toothbrush. If some area needs more, or has too much...then white paint and do again.

My theory is when I look up at the stars, I don't just see the constellations...although I would like those to be recognizeable. I also like the idea of using at least 2 colors..and maybe more. I'll probably use a basement workroom to experiment first.


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## DaveNagy (Apr 1, 2007)

Yeah, the whole "accuracy factor" may not be as important to me as I've been letting on. I'm a city slicker, so it's not like I have a vivid mental picture of what the stars are "supposed" to look like. Still, it might be neat to do something like:

"This is exactly how the stars looked at midnight on the night of our wedding, from the beach on which we were married."

Or, you know, something along those lines. I was discussing this with a friend, and he had the idea of attaching a laser pointer to one of those automatic sky-tracking mounts that telescopes all seem to come with these days. Maybe connect it to a computer, so you could automate things a bit easier. Then you just tell it to "find" the star, and the laser marks the spot. Overcomplicated? Sure! But it would be pretty cool. My friend works with a guy that heads up the local astronomy club, so he's going to ask him if this seems at all do-able. (Being able to borrow the mount, rather than buying it, would help a bunch.)

Here's a slightly less crazy method of doing the same sort of thing.


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 1, 2007)

That was an interesting concept. Even recommended this Krylon spray glow paint for the Milky Way

Here is a $23 airbrush that runs on a can of compressed gas.


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## greenlight (Apr 1, 2007)

Nice article. I wonder who Rob Brown is. Hasn't commented on this thread yet, but sounds like a good flashaholic.


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## bridaw (Apr 1, 2007)

greenlight said:


> Nice article. I wonder who Rob Brown is. Hasn't commented on this thread yet, but sounds like a good flashaholic.



No pictures of either star fields?! They are nice how to shots.


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 2, 2007)

Oh man this Starry Night program that he used to make his projector does look sweet. This is a pix from it. Click on it to see the Amazon listing.


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## greenlight (Apr 2, 2007)

That's a great image.


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## AndyTiedye (Apr 11, 2007)

We have a hung ceiling in our finished basement room.
I'm thinking of doing a starscape, but instead of UV paint
I'd like to use LEDs (LOTS of tiny LEDs)?


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 11, 2007)

AndyTiedye said:


> We have a hung ceiling in our finished basement room.
> I'm thinking of doing a starscape, but instead of UV paint
> I'd like to use LEDs (LOTS of tiny LEDs)?



OMG....you have to be nuts.


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## greenlight (Apr 11, 2007)

That's been done before with fiber optic cables. I seem to remember seeing that in a movie theatre, but I'm sure there are other places, too.


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## Alaric Darconville (Apr 16, 2007)

Years ago, when I lived in a trailer, I bought a tube of that glow-in-the-dark 'glue' that people often use for decorating shirts (forgot the brand, I still have some so will edit with that later). I free-handed constellations on the ceiling of my bedroom, and in some places made smudges with my thumb... In all, while not all that realistic, it certainly was better than the GitD plastic stars. 

No pics, though, sorry... (and I haven't had the gumption to try it in my house yet.)


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## Sigman (May 6, 2007)

Where are "we" at here...any updates/results/pics? :thinking:


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## LuxLuthor (May 8, 2007)

Sigman said:


> Where are "we" at here...any updates/results/pics? :thinking:



I am waiting for two things....the new Version 10 Glow Inc paint, and my wife to be gone for a few days. I know it would be better if it was one of those things she didn't know about until after the fact.


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## Sigman (May 8, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> ...I know it would be better if it was one of those things she didn't know about until after the fact.


COOL - that's going to be a surprise!!

[babblemode]

Having worn glasses since the 4th grade, I tried contacts once, didn't tell the family I was getting them. When they noticed & confronted me...I was like Eddie Murphy in "Trading Places" (when he was pretending he couldn't walk - scooting around on a square board with wheels). "I'M HEALED!!" It was a hoot!

[/babblemode]

Patiently waiting for updates (& wanting to do the same!).


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## greenlight (Oct 30, 2008)

It's been a while. Did anyone ever do this project?


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