# Fake Ultrafire



## Keron (Aug 9, 2013)

This is my first post here..

im joining here just to show something, comparison of a fake and a original Ultrafire WF-501B Q5 flashlight since i can find answers for this,

i brought them out of boredom around my local selling website, after finishing bidding the original Ultrafire one and won in a lower price for it, i spotted a cheaper later as it stated on sale, and then i also brought it.

after that just realized the sale one is a knock-offed


im not a professional or a big fan of flashlights but have couple of them as they do their job everyday, so i might be wrong sometimes.

This is something i spotted, as i searched around for answer but i cant reach any good info for this, so i hope this helps explain a little


attention please, right side is the original Ultrafire, and the left is the fake, knock-off crap

Right; Original Ultrafire WF-501B Q5 with longer grey lanyard
Left; fake, knock-off version or Ultrafire WF-501B with crap lanyard






i put a different lanyard so i can notice it easily


































im sure the right one shows something original out of the left one






a close picture of that right one







left one has crappy springs







those are original ultrafire batteries, with both a fake and a real 501B














brightness comparison..


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## derfyled (Aug 9, 2013)

I really don't understand why a company would copy a cheap company that does cheap copies of other companies...:duh2:


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## ElectronGuru (Aug 10, 2013)

They heard something about making money with derivatives


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## Capolini (Aug 10, 2013)

Keron said:


> This is my first post here..
> 
> im joining here just to show something, comparison of a fake and a original Ultrafire WF-501B Q5 flashlight since i can find answers for this,
> 
> ...




I also learned the hard way!! "Ultrafire" is junk. Whether it is there [phony/recycled] batteries or their flashlights!

Like "derfyled" said, why would a cheap company copy another cheap[phony] company??

Like everything else, "most times you get what you pay for"!! Jetbeam, Fenix and several others make quality flashlights at reasonable prices.:thumbsup:

p.s please take my comments as constructive criticism, keeping in mind that I did the same thing early on!

ciao,Roberto,"Capo di Capo"


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## 880arm (Aug 10, 2013)

A cheap knock-off of an UltraFire? Is nothing sacred any more??


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## mccririck (Aug 10, 2013)

Capolini said:


> I also learned the hard way!! "Ultrafire" is junk. Whether it is there [phony/recycled] batteries or their flashlights!



Did you try genuine Ultrafire batteries?


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## Monocrom (Aug 10, 2013)

derfyled said:


> I really don't understand why a company would copy a cheap company that does cheap copies of other companies...:duh2:



*LOL !!!*

Whose the pathetic loser with such horrible self-esteem issues that he decides his skills aren't good enough to try faking a SureFire, so instead he fakes an Ultrafire? 

I bet you guys that the fake Ultrafire is probably just a bit better quality than the real one.


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## Keron (Aug 11, 2013)

derfyled said:


> I really don't understand why a company would copy a cheap company that does cheap copies of other companies...:duh2:



If you ever live in south east asia, they clone almost everything from the real branded knives, flashlight, guns and even budget stuff.





ElectronGuru said:


> They heard something about making money with derivatives



if you ever know that china is the king of clones... they even clone firearms around the world- 





Capolini said:


> I also learned the hard way!! "Ultrafire" is junk. Whether it is there [phony/recycled] batteries or their flashlights!
> 
> Like "derfyled" said, why would a cheap company copy another cheap[phony] company??
> 
> ...



its not a crap, just budget.

people around south east asia are not as rich as you guys, so we need something cheap and reliable... Jetbeam and Fenix are good flashlights and i own some of them but i can tell you as i touch and flash it myself, both are actually no differences between quality but the price. just because they are famous unlike Ultrafire and ITP light.

some latest flashlight uses the same CREE Q5 bulb with ultrafire, famous companies only make covers of the flashlights and raises its price, just like a Spyderco knives with 8cr13mov, g10 handles cost above 50 bucks and a Ganzo with the same steel 8cr13mov, g10 handles but cost only 5 buck below. 

never try never know.

thanks.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Aug 11, 2013)

I would like to add my thoughts to *Keron*'s comments.

At present, Southeast Asia is not generally known for making quality products. However, I think we all know that Japan (not long ago) was just as bad, if not worse. There was a town near where I was raised called "Usa" (pronouced "Oo-sa") and they once had a booming business selling a variety of "Japanese Junk" that was labeled as "Made in USA." Yet today, Japanese products are known to be of the highest quality. 

And, while the Japanese work ethic is pretty unusual, it is not completely unique. If they can do it, others can do it too. So, I would be very cautious about labeling all such products from Southeast Asia (includes China?) as "junk." Times are changing rapidly, and everyone is learning day-by-day how to design better products, and improve quality.


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## bietjiedof (Aug 11, 2013)

Rosoku Chikara said:


> At present, Southeast Asia is not generally known for making quality products.



Really? Most of my big-name branded electronics - computers, cameras, flashlights, kitchen appliances, TV - not to mention shoes and clothing and a lot more are made in China, South Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand... 

But perhaps your emphasis is on "not generally known for" - in other words, many people still _think_ SE Asian goods are junk. They should have a close look at their Japanese, American and European-branded goods to see where they are actually made.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Aug 11, 2013)

bietjiedof said:


> Really? Most of my big-name branded electronics - computers, cameras, flashlights, kitchen appliances, TV - not to mention shoes and clothing and a lot more are made in China, South Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, Thailand...
> 
> But perhaps your emphasis is on "not generally known for" - in other words, many people still _think_ SE Asian goods are junk. They should have a close look at their Japanese, American and European-branded goods to see where they are actually made.



Excellent point, and I agree with you completely. I should have placed more emphasis on "not generally known for" because I understand exactly what you are saying. But, it is also a fact that, for example, in Thailand, the vast majority of the factories making the very best quality products are actually Japanese companies that have located in Thailand due to the lower labor, and other, costs.

However, regardless of the emphasis, what I am trying to say is that times are changing, and they are changing ever more rapidly. Very soon it will be obvious to everyone when some of the more entrepreneurial companies in Southeast Asia start manufacturing some of the very best quality products in the world (some already are; at least to a certain extent). And, when they do so, such companies will start selling their products for appropriately high prices.

So, it is actually only "right now" (while such companies are still "learning") that we are able routinely enjoy these often very good (if not always "excellent") quality products at such amazingly low prices. (Such "great deals" never continue "forever.")


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## bietjiedof (Aug 11, 2013)

I hear you, Rosoku. Globalization is (and will continue) to present great opportunities to those who not burdened by preconceptions. Not only consumers.

One day Ultrafire will probably be recognized as a premium product, and what we consider junk today will be collectible!


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## mccririck (Aug 11, 2013)

You just have to look at Xtar products to see what China can produce when they put their minds to it.


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## Monocrom (Aug 11, 2013)

Keron said:


> people around south east asia are not as rich as you guys, so we need something cheap and reliable... Jetbeam and Fenix are good flashlights and i own some of them but i can tell you as i touch and flash it myself, both are actually no differences between quality but the price. just because they are famous unlike Ultrafire and ITP light.
> 
> some latest flashlight uses the same CREE Q5 bulb with ultrafire, famous companies only make covers of the flashlights and raises its price, just like a Spyderco knives with 8cr13mov, g10 handles cost above 50 bucks and a Ganzo with the same steel 8cr13mov, g10 handles but cost only 5 buck below.
> 
> ...



Flashlights are one of the cheapest hobbies folks can get into. In the time I've been on CPF and all of the various members I've gotten to know, I'd say there's about two members who could realistically be called "rich." And neither one is a pretentious or snobby jerk who rubs their wealth in others' faces. 

As for "never try never know," thanks for coming to CPF and just right off the bat assuming that most or many CPFers have never tried cheap lights and therefore don't know what they're either missing out on, or what's available out there; or what they're talking about when they respond negatively to Ultrafire and other **** poor brands. It is an incredibly rare CPFer who didn't start out with a bunch of dirt cheap lights, chargers, and other accessories. Only to find out that what he bought was unreliable crap that barely lasted a month or (in some cases) a week. Cheap? Definitely! Reliable? ... Sorry, but that costs a bit of a premium. I don't consider a light that works for a month or two before dying for no reason at all, to be reliable. That's a lesson many of us learned the hard way. Bright & Cheap is the easiest trick for any flashlight company to pull off. (Even the No-name ones.) For some bizarre reason, quite a few folks think that "Bright & Cheap" also comes with "Quality" tossed in for free. It doesn't! You literally get Bright & Cheap, and that's all you get. 

The reason many of us spend more on better quality lights is because we, once again, learned the hard way that there's no such thing as cheap *and* reliable. So we wasted our money initially on cheap lights that let us down. Then we had to pay more for quality. It would have been cheaper to buy the quality lights first. So yes, many of us have tried; and we _know._ That's why we spend a bit more on quality. And not just lights. I bought a few dirt cheap Ultrafire 18650 cells and a dirt cheap Ultrafire charger when I decided to get into rechargeable lights. The Ultrafire cells wouldn't charge on the Ultrafire charger! Honestly, when was the last time you heard of a companies products that are meant to be used together, not being compatible with each other? I never did ... Until I spent my money on Ultrafire. Ended up buy some more expensive but quality cells from AW. Those actually charged up on the Ultrafire charger. And were hotter than lava when they were done! Stopped using that charger and bought the best one I could afford because the cheap cells and charger were garbage.

I own one JetBeam and five Fenix models. I also own a handful of iTP lights. Lumping iTP into the same category as Ultrafire is an insult to iTP. Despite liking the iTP models I own, no; they're not the same level of quality as my JetBeam and my Fenix lights. Good quality for sure. But my JetBeam and Fenix models are definitely a cut above in terms of quality; and by quite a bit. 

Let's take your comparison of "covers." I can take four wheels, a working engine, and a steering wheel. Well, I almost have a car. I just need a cover. I get two teams of guys to make that "cover" for me. One reproduces a body from a Ford Model-T. The other? ... A Shelby Cobra. 

It's the very same thing, right? No differences at all. Look ... four wheels, an engine, and a steering wheel. They both even have seats, headlights, and pedals. Same thing, right? No difference at all. Absolutely none. Yeah, *just* covers. And yet for some incredibly odd reason countless members have had their Ultrafire 6P clones fail on them shortly after having gotten them. Yet, other countless members have mentioned that their real SureFire 6Ps are still working reliably. Change the batteries every now and then. Toss in a new lamp once in a rare while. But still reliable. So much so that we have a few members who a few years ago became fathers. Their real 6Ps are actually older than their children. *That* is reliability. And you don't get *that* in something that is "Bright & Cheap." But don't misunderstand. It's not just SureFire. I own numerous Made in China lights (numerous _quality_ Made in China lights) not quite as durable as the SureFires I own. But reliable, gets the job done, gives me zero headaches. No, you don't need to spend hundreds of dollars on a SureFire to get a quality light. But "quality" still costs at least a bit of a premium. And you're not going to get that in something built to a very low-price point, and no higher.

As for Spyderco. I collect knives. I own quite a few Spyderco models. I own quite a few knives from various companies too. once again, I've tried and I know. Blade steel, handle material, lock design ... four wheels, a working, engine, a steering wheel ...

But yeah, other than proper heat-treat, attention to detail in contouring the handle material, using quality steel in the lock mechanism to make sure it won't fail under heavy use, taking the time to fit the lock absolutely properly so it won't fail and slam shut on the user's fingers, sharpening the blade at the factory so that the owner doesn't have to touch it up after initially getting the knife ... Yeah, other than all that; same exact thing but at a fraction of the Big Name Brand.  

*Welcome to CPF*

A friendly recommendation from an older member ... Get to know us, or at least a few of us before jumping to conclusions about us, what we've owned, used, and tried out.


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## Monocrom (Aug 11, 2013)

bietjiedof said:


> One day Ultrafire will probably be recognized as a premium product, and what we consider junk today will be collectible!



Let's bring a little reality back into the discussion. The only brand that ever existed which remotely pulled off something like that is Rolex. And truth be told, even back when Rolex was starting out and was simply a caser based in Britain; they still put out a quality watch. Not high quality. But far from being thought of as junk, even back then.


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## Norm (Aug 11, 2013)

SolarForce seems to be making progress at improving their product, I've had some Solarforce stuff in the past that I wasn't happy with, there New S2200 seems to be right up there with the better Chines manufacturers as far as value goes, time will tell.

Norm


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## Monocrom (Aug 11, 2013)

Norm said:


> SolarForce seems to be making progress at improving their product, I've had some Solarforce stuff in the past that I wasn't happy with, there New S2200 seems to be right up there with the better Chines manufacturers as far as value goes, time will tell.
> 
> Norm



Sorry to hear that Norm. My Solarforce L2 which I bought a few years ago was pretty decent. A little sloppy on the inside with machining marks. But a good value overall. I updated the emitter, and the bezel ring with a stainless steel one before giving it away to another member who got plenty of use out of it.


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## Norm (Aug 11, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> Sorry to hear that Norm. My Solarforce L2 which I bought a few years ago was pretty decent..


I've never had a problem with an L2, my biggest disappointment from the was the X2 / X3 and their Li-ion cells. They have always been great with communication and refunds for unsatisfactory product.

Norm


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## RIX TUX (Aug 11, 2013)

ULTRAFIRE FAKES ..........FUNNY

Of course they are copying these........they are made for .10 cents less than the real ultrafires. "BOOM - BIG POCKETS"


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## thedoc007 (Aug 11, 2013)

Well said Monocrom...there was no way I was going to let that pass, but you said everything I would have and more. Keron may have had good experiences with Ultrafire (lucky guy, if so), but we all know from experience there are qualitative differences between Ultrafire and quality brands. Yes, we may pay a premium for name-brand lights, but there is clearly a difference, and I'll gladly pay a premium for quality - nothing else matters until a minimum standard of quality is present. They can load up with features if they like, but it will still be junk if it isn't reliable, regardless.

Even aside from the quality of their products, I would absolutely refuse to buy Ultrafires. Their claims are flat-out lies, not just exaggerations. The marketing department is criminal in several areas, from mAh ratings with their cells, to lumen counts in their lights, and more. If you can't even believe the specs, you're really just buying on a hope and a prayer - you have no idea what you will actually get. For me, that is more than enough to stay away.


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## Monocrom (Aug 11, 2013)

thedoc007 said:


> Well said Monocrom...there was no way I was going to let that pass, but you said everything I would have and more. Keron may have had good experiences with Ultrafire (lucky guy, if so), but we all know from experience there are qualitative differences between Ultrafire and quality brands. Yes, we may pay a premium for name-brand lights, but there is clearly a difference, and I'll gladly pay a premium for quality - nothing else matters until a minimum standard of quality is present. They can load up with features if they like, but it will still be junk if it isn't reliable, regardless.
> 
> Even aside from the quality of their products, I would absolutely refuse to buy Ultrafires. Their claims are flat-out lies, not just exaggerations. The marketing department is criminal in several areas, from mAh ratings with their cells, to lumen counts in their lights, and more. If you can't even believe the specs, you're really just buying on a hope and a prayer - you have no idea what you will actually get. For me, that is more than enough to stay away.



Thank you. 

I realize that some place less emphasize on a company's business practices than they do on the quality of its products. A bit understandable. Still, you're right about their deceptive practices as well. Tough to overlook very poor quality AND deceptive business practices. Not even as though it's a choice between just SureFire or Ultrafire. There's Solarforce for those who want the look of a 6P, and with decent quality. Along with several other good options from the Made in China brands with a good reputation. I just don't understand buying the cheapest light out there and telling others it's just as good as a quality model that costs a bit more.


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## Keron (Aug 11, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> Flashlights are one of the cheapest hobbies folks can get into. In the time I've been on CPF and all of the various members I've gotten to know, I'd say there's about two members who could realistically be called "rich." And neither one is a pretentious or snobby jerk who rubs their wealth in others' faces.
> 
> As for "never try never know," thanks for coming to CPF and just right off the bat assuming that most or many CPFers have never tried cheap lights and therefore don't know what they're either missing out on, or what's available out there; or what they're talking about when they respond negatively to Ultrafire and other **** poor brands. It is an incredibly rare CPFer who didn't start out with a bunch of dirt cheap lights, chargers, and other accessories. Only to find out that what he bought was unreliable crap that barely lasted a month or (in some cases) a week. Cheap? Definitely! Reliable? ... Sorry, but that costs a bit of a premium. I don't consider a light that works for a month or two before dying for no reason at all, to be reliable. That's a lesson many of us learned the hard way. Bright & Cheap is the easiest trick for any flashlight company to pull off. (Even the No-name ones.) For some bizarre reason, quite a few folks think that "Bright & Cheap" also comes with "Quality" tossed in for free. It doesn't! You literally get Bright & Cheap, and that's all you get.
> 
> ...





Agree on all, I still can see the differences between with price as i realize, thank you so much~!


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## mccririck (Aug 12, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> Flashlights are one of the cheapest hobbies folks can get into. In the time I've been on CPF and all of the various members I've gotten to know, I'd say there's about two members who could realistically be called "rich." And neither one is a pretentious or snobby jerk who rubs their wealth in others' faces.
> 
> As for "never try never know," thanks for coming to CPF and just right off the bat assuming that most or many CPFers have never tried cheap lights and therefore don't know what they're either missing out on, or what's available out there; or what they're talking about when they respond negatively to Ultrafire and other **** poor brands. It is an incredibly rare CPFer who didn't start out with a bunch of dirt cheap lights, chargers, and other accessories. Only to find out that what he bought was unreliable crap that barely lasted a month or (in some cases) a week. Cheap? Definitely! Reliable? ... Sorry, but that costs a bit of a premium. I don't consider a light that works for a month or two before dying for no reason at all, to be reliable. That's a lesson many of us learned the hard way. Bright & Cheap is the easiest trick for any flashlight company to pull off. (Even the No-name ones.) For some bizarre reason, quite a few folks think that "Bright & Cheap" also comes with "Quality" tossed in for free. It doesn't! You literally get Bright & Cheap, and that's all you get.
> 
> *The reason many of us spend more on better quality lights is because we, once again, learned the hard way that there's no such thing as cheap and reliable*. So we wasted our money initially on cheap lights that let us down. Then we had to pay more for quality. It would have been cheaper to buy the quality lights first. So yes, many of us have tried; and we _know._ That's why we spend a bit more on quality. And not just lights. I bought a few dirt cheap Ultrafire 18650 cells and a dirt cheap Ultrafire charger when I decided to get into rechargeable lights. The Ultrafire cells wouldn't charge on the Ultrafire charger! Honestly, when was the last time you heard of a companies products that are meant to be used together, not being compatible with each other? I never did ... Until I spent my money on Ultrafire. Ended up buy some more expensive but quality cells from AW. Those actually charged up on the Ultrafire charger. And were hotter than lava when they were done! Stopped using that charger and bought the best one I could afford because the cheap cells and charger were garbage.



Utter BS, sorry. I have a multitude of cheap and reliable lights.


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## Monocrom (Aug 12, 2013)

mccririck said:


> Utter BS, sorry. I have a multitude of cheap and reliable lights.



Thank you for that intelligent and well-detailed rebuttal. 

The vast majority of members on CPF would disagree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion every bit as I am.


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## mccririck (Aug 12, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> Thank you for that intelligent and well-detailed rebuttal.
> 
> The vast majority of members on CPF would disagree with you, but you're entitled to your opinion every bit as I am.



I found your comment without foundation and very opinionated.


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## Monocrom (Aug 12, 2013)

mccririck said:


> I found your comment without foundation and very opinionated.



Ironically, that's the exact same way I feel about your's. However, in my case, there's numerous topics on CPF about cheap lights that failed miserably or just died for no reason at all when members needed them to work. I've experienced that myself. If you have cheap lights that have worked 100% reliably over several years for you, then congrats on being the luckiest man in the world. Let's go to Vegas, I'll pay you to stand next to me when I'm at the craps table. 

Unfortunately for the rest of us who started out in this hobby by buying cheap lights, we haven't been nearly as fortunate. My earlier post above is based on my experiences as well as the collective experiences of countless other members over the years. Once again, you have every right to disagree with what I posted. You can even pretend that my comments were simply opinionated personal observations on the topic. They weren't. But you're free to believe that if you wish.


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## mhanlen (Aug 12, 2013)

I don't know what one considers a budget light and an expensive/quality light- but you can find plenty of sub $30 lights- some even under $20 that are an excellent bang for the buck. Unfortunately I have found Ultrafire usually isn't that brand. Convoy makes a great light, and you don't have to pay much for them. I consider them a good and reliable budget light.


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## Monocrom (Aug 12, 2013)

mhanlen said:


> I don't know what one considers a budget light and an expensive light- but you can find plenty of sub $30 lights- some even under $20. Unfortunately I have found Ultrafire usually isn't that brand. Convoy makes a great light, and you don't have to pay much for them. I consider them a good and reliable budget brand.



I picked up my Solarforce L2 a few years back for right around $30. Proved to be reliable in the time I owned it. I'd recommend Solarforce easily over Ultrafire for a budget light. $30 might seem cheap to some. But in the budget light category it's not really cheap.


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## mhanlen (Aug 12, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> I picked up my Solarforce L2 a few years back for right around $30. Proved to be reliable in the time I owned it. I'd recommend Solarforce easily over Ultrafire for a budget light. $30 might seem cheap to some. But in the budget light category it's not really cheap.



I have had several ultrafires and personally wouldn't take another one, even if it was given to me. The only light I've owned that I've been happy with sub-$10 has been the sipik sk68. The next light I've been happy with is the Convoy S6, but the price jumps all the way up to $20 (depending on configuration). But anyway there's been about 6 cheap lights I've owned under $20 that I've given away for one reason or another. But yeah, a "budget light" can mean a lot of different things.

But all of my other lights that I enjoy, they're about $40 and up.


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## mccririck (Aug 12, 2013)

Cheap lights I have found very reliable:

Sipik sk68 - bomb proof and cheap
Aleto 26650 (giant sk68)
I have read very good things about several others including the Keygos M12
My Sipik sk98 seems to be holding up well so far

Yet some people on here seem to consistently ignore cheap lights that are rated highly on forums and still insist all cheap lights are rubbish. Why is that?....could it be it suits them to ignore?


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## Capolini (Aug 12, 2013)

mccririck said:


> Did you try genuine Ultrafire batteries?



Genuine??? Why would I take the risk hoping that might happen??!!

I got smarter and only buy "GENUINE" Panasonic 3400 Mah real as advertized cells!


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## Chodes (Aug 12, 2013)

mccririck said:


> Cheap lights I have found very reliable:
> 
> Sipik sk68 - bomb proof and cheap
> Aleto 26650 (giant sk68)
> ...



I bought 4 or 5 cheapies a few years ago. 
Ultrafire 502B bought as it was common, 6P clone and to quote Keron "never try never know"
It was advertised as 1.2 or 1.4 Amps (can't remember) Tailcap measurement was less than 600mA on a fresh cell. I cut my fingers on the tail threads doing that test.
I also resorted to just washing thoroughly with soapy water then re lubing as it was so full of machine oil.
The threads look like there are little solder blobs (just really bad machining)
It's been fairly reliable but sometimes does not work, usually pull apart and re assemble makes it work. probably need to wear a new contact patch on the "solder blob"threads.
It does not leave the house, never been dropped, sits on a shelf. It's a handy thing to keep around to remind me that it's worth paying more.
Other cheapies I bought - some a bit better, some worse. 

Other early purchases were Olight T20 or similar and a Jetbeam III Pro.
Both still work, Olight was sold to friend who recently sold on. Jetbeam shows scars of being dropped onto concrete yet everytime the button is pushed, light comes out.
Tailcap measurements on both lights confirmed advertised current draw was not less than half, it was accurate.
Both these lights have been dropped and used outdoors. 

So if I say Ultrafire are total crap, "quality" Chinese lights are good, and Surefire and Malkoff are great, it is due to the 5 years of ownership and experience using these lights that I make that statement.
The hole in my logic is I don't buy 10 cheapies every 6 months to see if quality has improved. 

It "suits me" to buy products that I can clearly see the quality with my eyes,fingers and multimeter.


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## mccririck (Aug 12, 2013)

The hole in your logic is you bought one cheap Ultrafire and now all cheapies are tarred with the same brush. I dont buy cheap lights based on output figures or claimed current draw, I buy them based on word of mouth on forums like this one, and I have had success with cheap lights.

That's not to say I dont appreciate more expensive lights, the build quality and controls can be a pleasure, but you said, "_The reason many of us spend more on better quality lights is because we, once again, learned the hard way that there's *no such thing* as cheap *and* reliable._"

I still think that is BS.


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## Chodes (Aug 12, 2013)

mccririck said:


> The hole in your logic is you bought one cheap Ultrafire and now all cheapies are tarred with the same brush. I dont buy cheap lights based on output figures or claimed current draw, I buy them based on word of mouth on forums like this one, and I have had success with cheap lights.
> 
> That's not to say I dont appreciate more expensive lights, the build quality and controls can be a pleasure, but you said, "_The reason many of us spend more on better quality lights is because we, once again, learned the hard way that there's *no such thing* as cheap *and* reliable._"
> 
> I still think that is BS.



You should bother to read my post.
*"I bought 4 or 5 cheapies a few years ago "*


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## Chodes (Aug 12, 2013)

mccririck said:


> The hole in your logic is you bought one cheap Ultrafire and now all cheapies are tarred with the same brush. I dont buy cheap lights based on output figures or claimed current draw, I buy them based on word of mouth on forums like this one, and I have had success with cheap lights.
> 
> That's not to say I dont appreciate more expensive lights, the build quality and controls can be a pleasure, but you said, "_The reason many of us spend more on better quality lights is because we, once again, learned the hard way that there's *no such thing* as cheap *and* reliable._"
> 
> I still think that is BS.


As I made the "hole in logic" statement, it seems you are replying to me.

So where did I say "_The reason many of us spend more on better quality lights is because we, once again, learned the hard way that there's *no such thing* as cheap *and* reliable._"

I'll leave this thread alone. I offered an opinion and detailed reasoning behind the opinion. You response is as poor quality as my 502B.


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## Monocrom (Aug 12, 2013)

mccririck said:


> Yet some people on here seem to consistently ignore cheap lights that are rated highly on forums and still insist all cheap lights are rubbish. Why is that?....could it be it suits them to ignore?



CPF is full of members with plenty of experience regarding cheap lights. Funny how many of those members, including myself if I'm honest, have chosen to spend more on that silly little thing called "quality." Hmmm ... Perhaps there's a reason for that.

Oh well ... New members should spend plenty of enjoyable time researching all aspects of this hobby on their own. And not simply accept as Gospel anything posted by any lone member. Let them decide for themselves afterwards which individuals are posting honestly, and which ones are simply trolling because they think it's fun. I'm confident that Keron and the vast majority of new members we get here on CPF are intelligent enough to make up their own minds regarding the level of quality and reliability of truly dirt cheap lights, after completing that thorough research.


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## Norm (Aug 12, 2013)

Chodes and mccririck you have an obvious difference of opinion, that's to be expected, please don't drag this thread off into the ditch with your bickering take it to PM or agree to disagree. There is no right or wrong when comparing personal experience. - Norm

Don't be a right fighter - Dr. Phil


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## Chodes (Aug 12, 2013)

Norm said:


> Chodes and mccririck you have an obvious difference of opinion, that's to be expected, please don't drag this thread off into the ditch with your bickering take it to PM or agree to disagree. There is no right or wrong when comparing personal experience. - Norm
> 
> Don't be a right fighter - Dr. Phil



Norm, my final line includes "I'll leave this thread alone."
Other than responding to moderators, I will stick to that


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## Monocrom (Aug 12, 2013)

Chodes said:


> You should bother to read my post.
> *"I bought 4 or 5 cheapies a few years ago "*



Sorry Chodes.

Apparently mccririck thinks you're an Alt account of mine that I'm re-routing through a server located in Australia. That quote he put into italics above is from my other post. Perhaps he genuinely believes that anyone who has had negative experiences with cheap lights, must be either lying or a fake Alt account.

Which is silly ... Everyone knows my Alt. account is Star Halo.

I would delete it, but he's far more popular and loved on CPF than I am. Even I have no clue what he's going to post next. Though usually it's some sort of awesome pic. 

(Which is kinda odd since I don't own a digital camera or even a cellphone with a camera feature. I've got no clue how I do it. Maybe some day I'll be as popular as myself.) :thumbsup:


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## mogul (Aug 15, 2013)

I feel like Ultrafire is even more "cheap" than brands like NiteCore, and Skyray King. My friend has a NiteCore EA4, and it beats most top-end flashlights in terms of quality, and it's 50$ for 860lm. it has about 5-modes, and built in voltmeter that has been proven accurate, and has accurate output as well. Even the SkyRay he just got is of comparable quality, and I look forward to receiving my SRK 4X XM-L2.

Some people would like to think that just because you spent 180$ on a flashlight it automatically makes it quality, but those people haven't owned the NiteCore or the SRK. He also has two Fenix lights. Now maybe I am wrong in thinking this, as I haven't been in to flashlights for that long. 

Also it seems you all are discussing the lights that cost 8-20$, and if that's the case then I would tend to agree.


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## chiphead (Aug 21, 2013)

Got my 502-B last week from Amazon, using your findings mine is the real-McCoy!
Bravo!


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## J-Dub74 (Aug 21, 2013)

chiphead said:


> Got my 502-B last week from Amazon, using your findings mine is the real-McCoy!
> Bravo!



Would you mind elaborating a bit on that? Exactly which seller? That seems to make a world of difference on Amazon. Which findings are you referring to? What makes you say it's "real". I'm not trying to be difficult but if you can give some more detailed information perhaps we can share in your joy.


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## Keron (Aug 22, 2013)

J-Dub74 said:


> Would you mind elaborating a bit on that? Exactly which seller? That seems to make a world of difference on Amazon. Which findings are you referring to? What makes you say it's "real". I'm not trying to be difficult but if you can give some more detailed information perhaps we can share in your joy.



by the bulb head marked with "Ultrafire.net" when open it and the LED inside(if you know how to spot it)


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## J-Dub74 (Aug 22, 2013)

Glad to hear it. From what I understand the fit and finish of a genuine Ultrafire is typically a big step up from most of the clones. Should I assume by your enthusiasm you are finding that to be true? Can you tell me which Amazon seller you ordered from? You can buy the same light from a hundred different sellers on Amazon under the same listing. Most will be selling the fakes so if you would share the seller name that could help more of us find the real thing. If you log in to your Amazon account the specific seller would be listed under your orders as "Sold by...". I see you're in Malaysia and I'm in the US so the seller may be regional but it's worth a shot.


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## Monocrom (Aug 22, 2013)

J-Dub74 said:


> Glad to hear it. From what I understand the fit and finish of a genuine Ultrafire is typically a big step up from most of the clones.



Sadly, I don't think you're joking or being sarcastic. A fake Ultrafire is going to be on par with the quality of a real one. No, not because the fakes are that good. The real ones are that bad.


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## Keron (Aug 23, 2013)

J-Dub74 said:


> Glad to hear it. From what I understand the fit and finish of a genuine Ultrafire is typically a big step up from most of the clones. Should I assume by your enthusiasm you are finding that to be true? Can you tell me which Amazon seller you ordered from? You can buy the same light from a hundred different sellers on Amazon under the same listing. Most will be selling the fakes so if you would share the seller name that could help more of us find the real thing. If you log in to your Amazon account the specific seller would be listed under your orders as "Sold by...". I see you're in Malaysia and I'm in the US so the seller may be regional but it's worth a shot.



are you talking about me? c:


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## xhrl0058 (Aug 30, 2013)

I've got the real ones and as others have mentioned, these are absolute crap...
avoid buying anything from Ultrafire


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## LEDninja (Sep 2, 2013)

I am not sure if one of the Ultrafires is fake. They could both be genuine. 

Firstly Ultrafire (and its sister company Trustfire) are more distributers than manufacturers. Just like Sears in North America. Sears sells CFL and LED light bulbs under the Ecosmart brand name. They range from the CREE CR6 made by Cree itself to crap made in god knows where. You can't say dimmable CFLs that don't dim properly is fake Ecosmart while the Cree CR6 that does is genuine Ecosmart. They are both genuine Ecosmarts.

There are 2 types of Duracell LSD batteries -white top and black top. My digital camera objects to the black top ones when there is still lots of charge left. I can still use them in my flashlights for an extended time after my camera rejected them. I can get twice as many shots from the white tops. So do my drug store carry REAL Duracells and FAKE Duracells? No! Duracell do not make their own LSD batteries. They buy them from Sanyo (white top made in Japan) and Panasonic (black top made in China). Since Sanyo and Panasonic recently merged Duracell buys from ONE supplier now.

So the 2 torches can be both genuine Ultrafires but from different factories/manufacturers with different quality standards. (Or lack of.)

-

As to the quality improvements I have a story to tell.
Fenix came out with the first good 1AA flashlight the Fenix L1P. A lot of us had sticker shock coming from $5 plastic budget flashlights. So Fenix came up with a economy model the Civictor. They both use Luxeons and around 30 lumens.
Then a new company took the Civictor body, swapped in an 80 lumen Cree XR-E and a 3 mode controller. WOW! There were 2 group buys. Then the horror stories started. Since there were only 2 group buys (no more as the undersea cable across the Pacific was cut at the time) the number of lights in the CPF community was known. A dedicated member added up the failed ones and *40% had problems*.
The company promised to do better. But their new model had similar problems.
Not wanting to lose the lucrative American market the owner took drastic action. He started an independent QC department. Then every light that leaves the factory goes to an outside company for a second QC check. The problems finally stopped.
Now the company is a respected name on CPF. The company? Jetbeam.

Unfortunately Ultrafire/Trustfire sell so many lights through ebay and DX (and clones) there is no pressure to improve.


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## J-Dub74 (Sep 3, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> Sadly, I don't think you're joking or being sarcastic. A fake Ultrafire is going to be on par with the quality of a real one. No, not because the fakes are that good. The real ones are that bad.



I can't speak for _all_ Ultrafire products, real or otherwise. I know there are a lot of bad ones out there. That said, I ordered a WF-501b from Fasttech. I've had it for about a week now. It's not the standard black one you see clones of everywhere. Mine has a single mode switch, an xm-l2 emitter and a smooth reflector and it's an anodized grey color that looks awesome. The lighter color shows off the machining which believe it or not is very well done. The knurling is perfect and it feels great in your hand. The smooth reflector casts a beautiful beam without a single artifact or halo. Just based on exterior aesthetics it's beautiful. It's listed at 500 lumens which seems accurate. Will this outlast a Surefire? I'm highly doubt it...but for $13 I am very happy. This is a really nice light. Had I paid $50 for this particular light I would not be disappointed. I know there is a lot of garbage out there with the Ultrafire name on it. I've owned some of it myself but there are good ones out there too.


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## J-Dub74 (Sep 3, 2013)

LEDninja said:


> Firstly Ultrafire (and its sister company Trustfire) are more distributers than manufacturers.



I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have any info to support this statement? I know a lot of people (especially on this site) put Ultrafire and Trustfire in the same category but I've never seen anything that indicated they were truly the same company or even connected in any way. I've seen reviews of several Trustfire lights by people that were very impressed with the build quality of their flashlights. As far as I know the main problem with both brands is they are manufactured in a country with no copyright laws so it's very easy for competitors to build a sub-standard product and put the Ultrafire or Trustfire name on it to gain a bit of market share based on name recognition. On the other hand if what you said about them being more distributors than manufacturers is true, we end up in the same place if they are not overseeing quality control. There are garbage and good quality products out there with the same label on them. In my experience the best shot at getting a good product with either name is by researching the seller. I have several Trustfire protected 18650's that serve me well but I'm picky about who I buy them from. My first battery/charger purchase was labeled Ultrafire and I'm lucky I didn't burn my house down. That's when I realized I needed to do more research.


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## J-Dub74 (Sep 3, 2013)

Keron said:


> are you talking about me? c:



Yes. I was talking about you.


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## Monocrom (Sep 3, 2013)

J-Dub74 said:


> I can't speak for _all_ Ultrafire products, real or otherwise. I know there are a lot of bad ones out there. That said, I ordered a WF-501b from Fasttech. I've had it for about a week now. It's not the standard black one you see clones of everywhere. Mine has a single mode switch, an xm-l2 emitter and a smooth reflector and it's an anodized grey color that looks awesome. The lighter color shows off the machining which believe it or not is very well done. The knurling is perfect and it feels great in your hand. The smooth reflector casts a beautiful beam without a single artifact or halo. Just based on exterior aesthetics it's beautiful. It's listed at 500 lumens which seems accurate. Will this outlast a Surefire? I'm highly doubt it...but for $13 I am very happy. This is a really nice light. Had I paid $50 for this particular light I would not be disappointed. I know there is a lot of garbage out there with the Ultrafire name on it. I've owned some of it myself but there are good ones out there too.



With regards to lumen output, Ultrafire (and most brands actually) lack the proper equipment to measure lumen output where it counts; out the front. What they measure is emitter lumens before the bezel and everything that goes with it is attached. Emitter lumens are always higher than out the front. On top of that, not only is the human eye a **** poor indicator of actual lumen output. It can be tricked if a light has concentrated output in the center of the beam, at the cost of sidespill.

A good rule of thumb is to take the advertised output number, and divide that by 1/3 (sometimes by as much as 1/2) in order to get a realistic general number of what your light is actually putting out. You're getting closer to 335 lumens with your Ultrafire. Hopefully it'll last you more than a few months at most. Honestly, that's optimistic for many Ultrafire lights.


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## LEDninja (Sep 4, 2013)

J-Dub74 said:


> I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have any info to support this statement?


There was a thread announcing Ultrafire bought Trustfire or Trustfire bought Ultrafire. Can't find it again.

Ultrafire and Trustfire do not make their own batteries. They do not have the chemical knowhow. (Sony recalled 5 years worth of laptop batteries and Sony had much better QC than Ultrafire or Trustfire. The Boeing Dreamliner was grounded for 3 months earlier this year due to battery fires despite tens of thousands of engineers at Boeing, FAA, the Japanese battery manufacturer and the French controller company doing their best to ensure safety.) 18650 batteries are made by companies like Sony, Panasonic or LG and everybody else just put their wrappers on them.
The people who package batteries for Ultrafire/Trustfire sometimes use recycled cells:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?316888-Fake-Ultrafire-18650-battery-warning
They or other suppliers sometimes use high end batteries:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...3-An-Unusually-long-lasting-Ultrafire-battery

Maglite one of the biggest flashlight manufacturers can fit their whole lineup on one page.
If Ultrafire/Trustfire make their own flashlights they would not need the huge number of models they have. They would have made a lot more money reducing the number of models, then using the economies of scale to cut costs and increase profits. (One of the better manufacturers Favourlight*** has a minimum order of 100,000. Add up ebay, Amazon and DX and no SINGLE MODEL of Ultrafire/Trustfire adds up to that many. (1 flashlight, car, appliance, computer going down an assembly line 1 minute per item, 8 hour shift, 5 days a week for a year adds up to 100,000.))

If you look hard enough practically every Ultrafire/Trustfire light has an identical model sold by another X-fire company. That shows whoever makes the lights for Ultrafire/Trustfire sell to these other companies as well as Ultrafire/Trustfire. Or Ultrafire/Trustfire does not make them.

*** Never heard of Favourlight? They are sold by Energizer, Terralux, Costco etc. under the retailers brand name.


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## thedoc007 (Sep 4, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> With regards to lumen output, Ultrafire (and most brands actually) lack the proper equipment to measure lumen output where it counts; out the front. What they measure is emitter lumens before the bezel and everything that goes with it is attached. Emitter lumens are always higher than out the front. On top of that, not only is the human eye a **** poor indicator of actual lumen output. It can be tricked if a light has concentrated output in the center of the beam, at the cost of sidespill.
> 
> A good rule of thumb is to take the advertised output number, and divide that by 1/3 (sometimes by as much as 1/2) in order to get a realistic general number of what your light is actually putting out. You're getting closer to 335 lumens with your Ultrafire. Hopefully it'll last you more than a few months at most. Honestly, that's optimistic for many Ultrafire lights.



You mean MULTIPLY by 2/3 or 1/2 - if you divide by a fraction the number is larger than when you started, not smaller. Dividing by 1/3 would mean the actual output is 1500 lumens.

I also think you are being a little too negative - as I said in an earlier post, it is possible to get a good one, just by luck. My problem with Ultrafire is that you just don't know when you purchase whether or not you will get what you ordered, their quality control seems to be fairly poor, no argument there. But IF you do get a decent one, there is no reason why it won't last a good long while...in fact some posters have already had just that experience. I avoid them just because I'm not willing to play the lottery - but if someone does win it, they should be congratulated, not told their luck is an illusion.

I hope you continue to enjoy your light J-Dub!


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## J-Dub74 (Sep 4, 2013)

Thanks doc. Only time will tell, but so far so good. I wouldn't play the Ultrafire lottery if I was going into battle...but I'm not. I'm mostly playing with my lights in my back yard and amusing my kids. I don't have the budget for lights of the quality most people on this forum are looking for. That's why I spend most of my time here in the Budget Lights area. For now I'm very happy with my light. If it breaks in a month I've still had a lot of fun, learned more about this hobby and I'm only out $13.


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## Monocrom (Sep 4, 2013)

thedoc007 said:


> You mean MULTIPLY by 2/3 or 1/2 - if you divide by a fraction the number is larger than when you started, not smaller. Dividing by 1/3 would mean the actual output is 1500 lumens.
> 
> I also think you are being a little too negative - as I said in an earlier post, it is possible to get a good one, just by luck. My problem with Ultrafire is that you just don't know when you purchase whether or not you will get what you ordered, their quality control seems to be fairly poor, no argument there. But IF you do get a decent one, there is no reason why it won't last a good long while...in fact some posters have already had just that experience. I avoid them just because I'm not willing to play the lottery - but if someone does win it, they should be congratulated, not told their luck is an illusion.
> 
> I hope you continue to enjoy your light J-Dub!



Sorry, meant to post "subtract by" instead of "divide."

Also, I can't agree I'm being too negative. Tons of members on CPF who have owned Ultrafire products. Not just myself. Negative reviews across the board. Once again, in my case it was mainly Ultrafire cells not being compatible with an Ultrafire charger designed specifically to charge up those type of and size cells. Honestly, have you ever heard of a company putting out two products meant to work with each other; but didn't? I never have. That's the biggest selling point in buying (supposedly) OEM products. Guaranteed compatibility. Not with Ultrafire.

Also, you shouldn't have to rely on something as horribly fickle as Lady Luck to get you a good flashlight at a rather low price. Buy a Solarforce model. No need to rely on luck one bit. Hell, if someone puts down $1,000 on "00" at a roulette game and it hits, yeah; I'll congratulate them.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Sep 4, 2013)

I am a big fan of "budget" lights. (More accurately, I am a big fan of "budget" everything. While "budget" is very difficult to define, to me, it seems to be about getting better value for your money, and also enjoying the "search" for lower cost, yet reliable, solutions. Anyone can throw money at a problem to solve it.)

But, I have always had considerable resistance to purchasing (testing) any of the various "Fire" brands. 

Remember, there really is a "*UranusFire*" out there. (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...9-Worst-Brand-Model-Name-For-Flashlight/page5) 

As a matter of fact, there is so much "Fire" stuff out there, and it varies so much, it seems to me that you can never know what you are getting (in advance), no matter how many times you test purchase it.

Also, when I first started getting interested in budget LED flashlights, I found this "official" Ultrafire website to be very entertaining:

QUOTE

We are the UltraFire official Web Shop.(180 days warranty)
UltraFire manufactures illumination tools that are powerful, compact, rugged and reliable. When you own a UltraFire flashlight, you own the best.

UNQUOTE

At the top of that page, they offer the following warning (*- IMPORTANT - "Beware of fake products"*) which links to this page:

QUOTE

BAD LIST WEBSITE
"Important-Beware of fake products"

We are the manufacture of ULTRAFIRE product. We have trade mark of "UltraFire".
Now, many fake UltraFire product in the market happen. Please take caution.
All the UltraFire fake product is no quality assurance, please stop to purchase. 

Fake UltraFire Product WebSite List:

www.amazon.com
www.ultrafire.jp
www.ultrafire.pt
www.dealextreme.com
www.lightmalls.com
www.alldaymall.com
www.dinodirect.com
www.ultrafire.com.cn 
www.trademe.co.nz
www.aliexpress.com
www.gadgettown.com
www.chinabuye.com
www.banggood.com
www.mercadolibre.com.ar
www.kaidomain.com
www.lightinthebox.com
www.miniinthebox.com

UNQUOTE

So, according to the "official Ultrafire website," if you purchase from any of the above websites, you are getting a "fake." *Who knows?* Generally speaking, I prefer to stay away from any low cost light that has "Fire" in its name.


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## J-Dub74 (Sep 4, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> Sorry, meant to post "subtract by" instead of "divide."
> 
> Also, I can't agree I'm being too negative. Tons of members on CPF who have owned Ultrafire products. Not just myself. Negative reviews across the board. Once again, in my case it was mainly Ultrafire cells not being compatible with an Ultrafire charger designed specifically to charge up those type of and size cells. Honestly, have you ever heard of a company putting out two products meant to work with each other; but didn't? I never have. That's the biggest selling point in buying (supposedly) OEM products. Guaranteed compatibility. Not with Ultrafire.
> 
> Also, you shouldn't have to rely on something as horribly fickle as Lady Luck to get you a good flashlight at a rather low price. Buy a Solarforce model. No need to rely on luck one bit. Hell, if someone puts down $1,000 on "00" at a roulette game and it hits, yeah; I'll congratulate them.



You can be fairly certain that the charger and batteries you bought were not genuine Ultrafire products. No, Ultrafire is not the same quality as the higher priced competition but they do not sell a "matched" combination of incompatible products. The companies that copy their products or as is more often the case just put an Ultrafire label on whatever they are selling do these types of things all the time. Hence the bad reputation associated with the name. I still love my light and would recommend it to others but ONLY the exact model I got through the same seller. Go to Fasttech's website and look at the one I bought. The Fasttech SKU number is 1358902. You could order one yourself for less than $13. Mine only took 10 days to get to Michigan from China. My only beef is that they listed it as a forward clicky and it's a reverse. They are issuing me a credit for the mistake. If you actually get it and don't think it's a nice light for the money with decent build quality I will be happy to buy it from you for the full price.


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## Monocrom (Sep 4, 2013)

J-Dub74 said:


> You can be fairly certain that the charger and batteries you bought were not genuine Ultrafire products.



Okay, gonna stop you right there. I bought the cells and charger off of Lighthound.com

Ever heard of that site? Perhaps not. Okay fair enough. Allow me to enlighten you. The Hound, as it is affectionately known by far too many CPFers to count, has a well-earned reputation for being one of the most trusted online shops that you will ever encounter. And not just for lights, or batteries, or flashlight related products. If anything remotely goes wrong, no matter how minor, they WILL make it right. Period! You're not going to find fake anything sold through The Hound. And here's the other thing, it's literally impossible to buy fake Ultrafire 18650 cells. Let me explain why that is so ...

Ultrafire pulls rechargeable cells out of used laptops. They then wrap their "Ultrafire" labels around the cells they salvage. They don't actually make the cells. They don't sub-contract with a company that makes the cells for them and thus ensures QC standards. (If you buy any CR123 primary cell that says "Made in USA" on it, then it's made by Panasonic in their factory. Actual sub-contracting.) Since all Ultrafire does is pull rechargeable cells out of various different old, used, laptops and then just wrap a new label on them; it is *literally* impossible to buy "fake" Ultrafire 18650 cells. They don't manufacture their own cells and they don't sub-contract the work out to anyone. 

The charger? A common one made by various different companies in China with various different brand names simply printed on them. Buy a large batch, stamp or print your company name on each one before re-packaging it for sale, and there you go. Once again, not manufactured by Ultrafire. Not sub-contracted out to another company. Just bought in batches for a lower price for each bulk purchase. So, it's also literally impossible to buy a fake Ultrafire charger. 

That's the reason why my Ultrafire cells were incompatible with my Ultrafire charger. They weren't actual OEM products, despite being labelled as such. Now that's the sort of thing one learns over time. CPF is full of members who are more than happy to help those new to the hobby. But, granted, some new members simply aren't interested. Fair enough.


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## thedoc007 (Sep 4, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> Tons of members on CPF who have owned Ultrafire products. Not just myself. Negative reviews across the board.



Monocrom, if you read my previous posts, you'll understand that I am largely agreeing with you - I do not feel that playing the lottery is worth it, and I avoid Ultrafire just because of the potential hassle. I have stated before that their marketing (and specs) are full of lies, exaggerations, and mistakes. Some of this may not be entirely the fault of Ultrafire (any company can be subject to counterfeiting) but even so, personally, I know there are other (and in my opinion better) options out there for value.

That being said, let me try an analogy on you. If someone buys a new pair of headphones that they think sound really awesome (but you know better) would you call them an idiot and tell them the 'phones are junk compared to yours? If so, I have nothing more to say. If not, think about why. Gently educating someone is not the same thing as calling their purchase into question...and they may have different priorities than you. Just because it isn't worth it to you, doesn't mean it isn't a worthwhile purchase to someone else.

Also, although you are right about many CPFers having bad experiences with Ultrafire, it isn't as one-sided as you would have us believe. 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?154449-UltraFire-Cree-C2&highlight=ultrafire
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?185893-Ultrafire-WF-502D-Review
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?157965-Ultrafire-Lights-What-is-your-take
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?191387-Ultrafire-C3-Stainless-Steel-1AA

And from Dan @ Dan's Data - great resource for all kind of gadget reviews and thoughtful commentary on tech of all kinds.
http://www.dansdata.com/ultrafire.htm

I am well aware there are several negative threads for every positive one, my point was only to provide a little balance. Your statement that reviews are negative "across the board" is false. 

I will say unequivocally that I have never have and never will buy ****Fire cells - that is a safety concern, and not to be messed around with. However, I think Ultrafire has a place in budget light options - if nothing else, it will teach you to appreciate higher quality lights. Remember, though, not everyone can afford to buy $100 lights on a regular basis. If someone asks you to recommend a Kia or Hyundai, and you tell them only a Ferrari will do, you don't understand the needs of the person asking the question.



Monocrom said:


> You shouldn't have to rely on something as horribly fickle as Lady Luck to get you a good flashlight at a rather low price.



Sure, but some people enjoy playing the lottery - as long as they can afford it, why shouldn't they? You've done your job, brought up some potential issues . Now, let them decide. And don't hate on them if they do win!


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## Monocrom (Sep 5, 2013)

I would list all of the topics I've seen with negative reviews regarding Ultrafire products since the day I signed up on WUS. However, I would easily exceed the admittedly very high character limit for individual posts on CPF. Nice of you to find a handful of positive threads regarding Ultrafire products. When I posted the words "across the board," did I really need to put a little disclaimer after that saying "but you'll find a few individuals who are satisfied with what they got." "Across the board" doesn't mean "Every single soul on Earth curses the name 'Ultrafire.'" I stand behind my statement in my earlier post.

I didn't call anyone in this thread an idiot. I don't go around calling fellow members idiots for their personal choices in which models to buy. If I did that, I would have been perma-banned long ago. Greta is a classy lady. But she's no wall-flower and wouldn't put up with that sort of crap from any member. To answer your question, if I went to someone's house as an invited guest and they were raving about how wonderful their new BOSE system was ... No, I wouldn't point out the issues. I wouldn't laugh at them for thinking a crap system was high-end or high-quality. Nor would I call them an idiot. That would be rude and classless. A few days ago, I was complimented on the watch I was wearing. It was not the high-quality watch I normally wear. It was a cheap, large, black plastic with gold-painted accents of a rather ugly digital Adidas quartz watch. It's my beater. The watch I wear when I run errands or do work that would get one of my better watches incredibly dirty. It's one I absolutely don't care about. Not one bit. Originally bought it for a family member whose eye-sight is not quite what it used to be, and I figured that the huge digital display would be beneficial. Turns out, they think it's even uglier than I do. They politely refused to wear it. It became my beater.

The new guy working behind the deli counter at my local supermarket couldn't stop smiling and drooling over the hideously ugly thing on my wrist. I gave him a closer look, and when I pulled my arm away he practically begged me for a longer look. I gave it to him. Asked me where I got it from, asked me the price (bit of an offensive thing to ask. And no, that's not just my take on it). I answered his questions, smiled politely, thanked him for the compliment on my watch, then moved on. I didn't look at him as if he were insane and say, "What the Hell is wrong with you? You actually like the look of this hideous thing?" Once again, that would have been rude and classless.

On an internet forum dedicated to a specific type of item, when a new member posts about his "quality" item, and you have an entire community filled with experienced members who know that the item is actually very far from quality ... It would be a classless thing NOT to point out the truth to that new member, to that new enthusiast. You know the truth. You're just going to sit back and let a new member, a new enthusiast, think he has something great when he doesn't? You know what, that's not being classless; that's being a jerk. 

I've been in that sort of situation. Difference is, I was the new member. And I know what it's like being on a forum filled with hundreds or even thousands of other enthusiasts who know far more than I did at the time, yet not one them said a damn thing. (BTW, I'm not talking about CPF.) A forum full of jackasses and jerks who remained perfectly silent. And then, when I learned and knew better; oh yeah you better believe I was angry as Hell. 

New member, internet forum full of like-minded individuals, full of older members who truly know quality, and not one decided to just step in and lay a little truth on the guy who literally (at the time) didn't know better. That's what happened to me. So, I'm not doing that to someone else. It's a far different setting than being a guest at someone's house, or getting a compliment from someone who clearly knows nothing about quality watches. Completely different setting. 

There's a HUGE difference between an individual who buys a cheap light and thinks it's high-quality vs. someone who just buys a cheap light because they like how it looks, or they just want a beater they can toss in the back of the old pickup truck, or something they'll leave inside a locked shed in their back-yard just in case. Heck, I own a nice assortment of cheap lights. I bought them because I wanted a few beaters to keep around my home, and because they were cheap. I know none of them are as high quality as my Milky-modded lights or my SureFires. I know that. But for general-purpose mundane lighting chores around the house, and to loan out to the neighbors; they work well. Yup, I'll be the first to admit that my $450 SureFire M6 w/ HOLA is a wee bit of overkill for walking to the bathroom in the middle of the night. I use my AA Dorcy 3-LED cluster light for that. 

Also, as a car guy, yes; I would not recommend a Ferrari ... Company's far to pretentious, I'd recommend a higher-end Porsche. But only if someone asked about which Supercar to get. If they asked for a decent economy car that could get them to work and back on a daily basis, I'd recommend a new KIA Spectra or a used Toyota Corolla. If they needed versatile cargo room, a used Honda Fit (or a used Honda Jazz [same exact model] for those living in the UK). If they needed a family sedan, a used Buick Century. (Yes, I know, just a bit of an odd choice. But a solid one for a good family-hauler that isn't a mini-van or a hybrid SUV.) Then again, if someone bought a KIA Spectra with a spoiler and went on a car enthusiast forum because they wanted to mention doing some illegal street racing with it in stock form, one; I'd advise not racing at all. Two, I'd tell them that it's not a sports sedan and here's why ...

I would also hope that I wouldn't be the only one doing that. But you know what, I probably would because it's happened a bunch of times on other forum sites outside of CPF regarding other items besides cars and other misconceptions besides street racing. And sometimes my blatant honesty gets horribly misinterpreted and sometimes it just seriously ticks people off. Every now & then though, you know what ... I have new members thanking me for that honesty. Most recent example was on a rather popular watch site. Guy bought what he thought was a high-quality watch that he hoped to one day pass onto his son. A mechanical watch from a certain brand that cost him a few thousands of dollars. He wasn't rich. He just wanted one, quality, mechanical timepiece that he could wear and enjoy for the rest of his lifetime and then pass along to his son. 

The model he bought is a very expensive piece of junk. It honestly is. I knew it, lots of other members did too. Take the caseback off, and I'll show you why it's overpriced junk. But most watch-buyers never do. So they will never see the certain blatant cost-cutting measure normally found on a $200 mechanical dive watch. A measure that has no business on one costing about $3,000 and will severely limit the watches life-span. And you know ... All the other members in that particular sub-forum stayed silent. Didn't say a word. They were perfectly fine letting the new guy think that his $3,000 watch with quality closer to a $200 watch would stand the test of time. Bunch of damn jerks. I sure as Hell didn't think that was perfectly fine. If it had been a light instead of a watch, and if it had been here on CPF instead of that other site; I wouldn't have been the only regular to tell the guy the truth. The guy thanked me for helping him out. He took the watch back and bought a different one, a quality one that he'd actually be able to pass down to his son one day. I can name watches costing as little as $1200 that are truly heirloom quality. I know watches costing over $10,000 that couldn't compete with a $200 Seiko, in terms of quality. 

As far as budget lights go, okay; someone wants to roll the dice and take a gamble? Perfectly fine. Someone wants a decent light at a low price-point without possibly throwing their money away? There are several good choices. For someone who doesn't wish to gamble, I'm not recommending Ultrafire.


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## derfyled (Sep 5, 2013)

Monocrom,

Great post, well explained. :thumbsup:


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## J-Dub74 (Sep 5, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> Since all Ultrafire does is pull rechargeable cells out of various different old, used, laptops and then just wrap a new label on them; it is *literally* impossible to buy "fake" Ultrafire 18650 cells. They don't manufacture their own cells and they don't sub-contract the work out to anyone.



If what you stated was fact and not just opinion then why would a reputable site like Lighthound.com (Yes, I am familiar with the site by the way) sell a product that is known to be recycled garbage? The simple answer is they would not. Feeling strongly about something does not make it true. You obviously have a huge beef with Ultrafire and that's fine. To be honest, _in general _I'm not a fan of Ultrafire myself. I also never denied that there was tons of garbage being sold under the Ultrafire name. I myself do not buy Ultrafire batteries because there are more fakes out there than the real thing. Those fakes are exactly as you described and are at best poor quality and at worst extremely dangerous. If you look around a bit you will see posts from plenty of people who have unwrapped "Ultrafire" batteries. Many are the junk you accurately described. There are also people who've unwrapped multiple batteries from the same batch and found brand new cells with matching numbers printed on them. Unlike the lottery, by doing your homework and finding a reputable seller you can find a nice light that fits in a tight budget. The light I got happens to be one of them. If I wanted to play the lottery I'd save myself a few bucks and buy from ...bay or Amaz... That _is_ like a lottery since there is little or no individual seller accountability. That said, even reputable sellers get burned with poorly manufactured fake products from time to time as may have been the case with your Ultrafire experience. The good sellers (like Lighthound.com) will take the appropriate action when these things happen. That's what makes them good sellers. My Ultrafire happens to be a pretty nice light. I am also confident that I could place a repeat order and get the same light. Would I recommend Ultrafire as a brand? Definitely not. However there are some decent ones out there even if they are few and far between. Did I feel it might be a gamble when I placed the order? Yeah, a little...but I was very pleasantly surprised. That's why I mention it here...in the BUDGET forum. To say I'm not interested in learning from other CPF members who are more experienced and happy to help is way off base by the way. Don't be so quick to judge. It's exactly why I joined this forum. 

Adding a quick edit as I see you posted a lengthy response while I was typing. For the record Monocrom, I do not feel you were calling anyone an idiot. It does seem you may be _a bit _on the opinionated side but there's no crime in that. I respect that you try to steer new enthusiasts away from Ultrafire. As a generalization I'd say the majority of products labeled Ultrafire are low quality and potentially dangerous...but there are exceptions.


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## billy_gr (Sep 5, 2013)

i recently bought a UltraFire WF-502B XM-L T6 from dx (12.60$). The reason was to understand a bit about the dropins and the whole concept without investing a huge amount of money. Got what i paid for and i like it (= i don't expect miracles). I just measured 2.2A at the switch with fresh batteries, it gets a bit hot but cpf has a solution.

The only worries is the threads on the tail that probably will fail after opening and closing it a lot of times to insert a new battery. 

But come on, its fun, fake or not, it is still fun = new hardware found


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## Mass. Wine Guy (Sep 11, 2013)

I have what I believe is a genuine Ultrafire. I don't think the real thing is very good. Maybe a fake is better.


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## N8N (Sep 11, 2013)

Monocrom said:


> (a bunch of stuff)



Sorry, I either had to quote the whole thing or none of it. I agree with you on so many levels. The car thing may not be a good analogy... everyone knows (or should) that a Ferrari is a traditionally high strung, finicky beast and therefore not suitable for daily driving unless you have a mechanic named Luigi on retainer. But in every other respect I'm right there with you... so many supposed "top" brands are either riding on name generated in the past or really never were that good in the first place. To paraphrase someone from another group I frequent (and oddly someone with whom I usually disagree but he nailed it this time) "I'm sick of having to become an expert on everything just to avoid getting ripped off." But that is sadly how it is, and why I'm subscribed to so many damn forums!

Let me guess - the watch was a TAG-Heuer? (and what's wrong with a $200 dive watch anyway? I was rocking a Seiko 009 for years, until I finally killed it by falling off a motorcycle and landing on it. Oh, yeah, the bike was moving at the time... I'd actually put a new movement in it if I had enough faith in my mechanical abilities as it still looks fine.)

Now I don't even know if your analogy between everything else and Ultrafire lights is valid... but it certainly seems that way from doing a little reading, good rule of thumb is never buy anything Anything-Fire unless Anything = Sure.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Sep 11, 2013)

J-Dub74 said:


> ...why would a reputable site like Lighthound.com... sell a product that is known to be recycled garbage? The simple answer is they would not...The good sellers (like Lighthound.com) will take the appropriate action when these things happen. That's what makes them good sellers. My Ultrafire happens to be a pretty nice light. I am also confident that I could place a repeat order and get the same light. Would I recommend Ultrafire as a brand? Definitely not...As a generalization I'd say the majority of products labeled Ultrafire are low quality and potentially dangerous...but there are exceptions...[excerpted]



I posted earlier in this thread that I have always tended to avoid "Anything"-Fire that was low cost. (I said "low cost" because, of course, Surefire is known to be a very good product, but I doubt anyone would accuse them of being low cost.)

As I wrote in my earlier post, it is the "randomness" of the "Anything"-Fire that throws me off. There seem to be so many fakes/clones, etc., by so many different sellers and vendors that you really can't keep track. Every purchase seems to be yet another test purchase.

I think what happens in the case of a good seller like Lighthound is that they purchase a substantial quantity all at once, so that they can be assured that, at the very least, they are selling the same thing to everyone. Also, to one degree or another, I suspect that Lighthound is conducting their own internal quality control (either before or after the sale). If you have a problem after the sale, such a seller will likely do their best to take care of the problem.

Also, another reason that I personally don't care very much for the many "Anything"-Fire brands, is that all those brands are such obvious attempts to "play-off" the famous Surefire brand. Personally, it would seem a bit embarrassing to me to "show off" any of them to my friends. (Kind of like showing off your wonderful new "Rollecks" watch, or "Rolls-Race" automobile.) Don't get me wrong, I believe some of these flashlights are probably good "budget lights." I would simply prefer no brand at all, to having it printed with "Anything"-Fire.

------

Edit: Having written that last sentence, which I had intended as the last sentence of this poist, I suddenly realized that I was wrong: There was one "Anything"-Fire brand that I would want in my "collection." So, I promptly searched out and ordered a WF-602C Cree XR-E Q5 200ml 5-Mode Flashlight (1 x CR123A) for $10.30 on DX. It is a genuine "*UranusFire*" and might also even be a nice little flashlight. I cannot believe that such a ridiculous brand can ever be truly successful, so I figure that one day it may become a bit of a collector's item. And, in the meantime, with that brand name, it does make a "unique" conversation piece! 

Well, one thing led to another, and I noticed the HWA/WYS "logo" above the brand name. And, I got to wondering what this really meant. I have seen it often on other "Anything"-Fire brands, but no one seems to know what it means...





Well, I still don't know for sure that it means, but I did finally "track it down." I found it on a Chinese trademark database site:

HWA WYS FIRELIGHT
HWA WYS ULTRASUPFIRE
HWA WYS ULTRAFIRE
HWA WYS ATATAFIRE
HWA DKL ULTRAFIRE

Apparently, some Chinese manufacturers/trading companies/vendors are adding HWA WYS (or HWA DKL in one case) to their trademark, so that it no longer conflicts with another existing trademark. (In other words, it seems that "HWA WYS ULTRAFIRE" can be registered separately from "ULTRAFIRE.") What seems really strange, however, is the fact that most of these HWA WYS trademarks appear to be registered to different entities. So, it appears that some people are even copying this "HWA WYS" trademark too!

Not only that, even though I found "URANUSFIRE" as a registered trademark, I could not find "HWA WYS URANUSFIRE," despite the fact that the flashlight I ordered clearly says HWA WYS on it... Huh??? (Is anyone else confused yet?)

Well, having gotten this far, I kept going... Here is a complete list of ULTRAFIRE trademarks that were to be found in that database:

Class-11 -> ULTRAFIRE -------------> Surefire Trading Co., Ltd. Jingjiang
Class-35 -> ULTRAFIRE -------------> Paper Packaging Products Co., Ltd. Guangzhou Xinyue
Class-16 -> ULTRAFIRE -------------> Paper Packaging Products Co., Ltd. Guangzhou Xinyue
Class-35 -> ULTRAFIRE -------------> Yellow Red
Class-11 -> ULTRAFIRE -------------> Yellow Red
Class-24 -> ULTRAFIRE -------------> Yellow Red
Class-22 -> ULTRAFIRE -------------> Yellow Red
Class-18 -> ULTRAFIRE -------------> Yellow Red
Class-11 -> ULTRAFIRE -------------> Lu Shuying
Class-09 -> ULTRAFIRE -------------> Lu Shuying
Class-11 -> ULTRAFIRE -------------> Surefire Optoelectronics Technology Co., Ltd. Kunshan
Class-11 -> SHENHUO ULTRAFIRE --> SPDC
Class-11 -> Surefire ULTRAFIRE ----> Trading Co., Ltd. Yiwu embarrassing way
Class-11 -> HWA WYS ULTRAFIRE -> Its E-commerce Co., Ltd. in Hangzhou
Class-11 -> USA WYS ULTRAFIRE --> E-commerce Co., Ltd. Yiwu Phaeton
Class-09 -> Surefire ULTRAFIRE ----> WANG Cai Mei
Class-11 -> HWA DKL ULTRAFIRE --> Xiaoxiang Hui

Note: Class-11 is the trademark classification that pertains to flashlights, so it is the only one that is truly relevant here, but I included the others for "effect." Also, "Yellow Red" is likely some Chinese individual or entity's name that happens to translate into those two colors. It is worth noticing that even among Class-11 trademarks, several entities appear to have registered ULTRAFIRE. And, "Yellow Red" has it for Class-11, 18, 22, 24, and 35!

Furthermore, while many people seem to think that "Wha Fat Technological Co.,Ltd" owns the HWA WYS ULTRAFIRE trademark, and that is the logo/trademark they use on their website, this database says that it was once owned by "Its E-commerce Co., Ltd. in Hangzhou" but is now shown as being "Invalid" (That remark is underlined in green in the screenshot below.)





For anyone that is still interested, here is a partial list (Class-11 only) of "Anything"-Fire trademarks that are currently registered in China:

AFIRE - AURORAFIRE - BESTFIRE - BLACKFIRE - BLUEFIRE - BRIGHTFIRE - CAMPFIRE - CERAMFIRE - CLASSICFIRE - CLEANFIRE - CLEARFIRE - CNFIRE - CROSSFIRE - DANCINGFIRE - DEITYFIRE - DEVAFIRE - EXCEFIRE - EXTRAFIRE - FENGFIRE - FITFIRE - FOXFIRE - GODFIRE - GREENFIRE - HERAFIRE - HOLYFIRE - ICEFIRE - IFIRE - INFIRE - JACKFIRE - KINFIRE - KINGFIRE - KITFIRE - LONGFIRE - LOOFIRE - MAGFIRE - MAGICFIRE - MARSFIRE - MICROFIRE - MIRACFIRE - MOKFIRE - MOODFIRE - MOONFIRE - MULTIFIRE - NEWFIRE - NEYFIRE - POLYFIRE - RAIDFIRE - RAPIDFIRE - REALFIRE - ROADFIRE - SACREDFIRE - SAFEFIRE - SAFIRE - SAINTFIRE - SARNCFIRE - SARNCFIRE - SHENFIRE - SHINEFIRE - SHOWFIRE - SINGFIRE - SINGLYFIRE - SPACEFIRE - SPECIALFIRE - SPLITFIRE - STARFIRE - STREAKFIRE - SUNFIRE - SUNSFIRE - SUPERFIRE - SUPFIRE - SUREFIRE - TIGERFIRE - TOPFIRE - TRUSTFIRE - TUREFIRE - UINFIRE - ULIGHTFIRE - ULTRAFIRE - UNIQUEFIRE - URANUSFIRE - VENUSFIRE - VULCANFIRE - WILDFIRE - WINFIRE - ZOOMFIRE

My conclusions? 

I once read where someone wrote that the Chinese flashlight industry is "like the Wild, Wild West - anything goes!" If I were to continue that analogy, I would say that the "Anything"-Fire brands are the old "Indian Territories," where things were completely lawless (even in comparison to the famous "Wild, Wild West").


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## chiphead (Sep 12, 2013)

After studying the pictures, I'm sure what I've got! For one thing, thing threads for the switch are on the outside. Second, the color of the inset of the switch is gold instead of the pictured green, meaning a bootleg? Third, at the top of the battery tube there some sort of inset with a metal contact at it's center. Number 5, the original 5 function LED module went to pot after about 2 weeks. Place in another (non Ultrafire) module and started having ground contact problems. To make matters worse, I went to "the" Ultrafire website and read their warning concerning bootleg units. On the list of places not to buy a unit from was Amazon. I think I've got all the issues resolved as I've been working this thing for the past week with no issues at all. My next unit (a C8) will come straight from the Ultrafire site. Am I the only one to get bit?
chiphead in Sub-Saharan Texas
P.S I've noticed that the metal is thinner than that of any of my Solarforce units. So I used silicon heatsink compound to solve that one.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Sep 12, 2013)

chiphead said:


> ...I went to "the" Ultrafire website and read their warning concerning bootleg units. On the list of places not to buy a unit from was Amazon...My next unit (a C8) will come straight from the Ultrafire site...[excerpted]



Just out of curiosity, what are you thinking is "the Ultrafire site" that you are going to purchase from next?

While I probably shouldn't run the risk of disillusioning you, I (personally) would be highly skeptical of that "Official Ultrafire Website" that lists all those "Bad Websites." In my opinion, all they did was list all their competing websites, and call them "Bad." I can find no evidence that they actually own the Ultrafire trademark, despite the fact that they make that claim.

And, as recently as a couple years ago, this "official" Ultrafire website had a very poor reputation, as evidenced by these posts from a different forum:



> _- http://ultrafire-shop.net How to know if they are real? !!!_
> 
> _- First I would say the ultrafire shop is fake, or at least not working. I have tried ordering from them twice. You can't make direct payment on their site, they have to send you an invoice after you order... they never send the invoice._
> 
> _- try this for genuine ultrafire .... http://www.ultrafire.net/_



Today, that self-proclaimed "official" Ultrafire website will apparently let you pay by Paypal, but of course that doesn't mean much. They do not provide any real company name. They offer no real address nor any kind of real contact information. (Sure, they have a domain name and an email address... but what does that mean? I must have nearly 100 myself.) Not only that, take a look at their "NEWS AND EVENTS" section. They show one item, an ULTRAFIRE T70 with 6354 comments... but take look at those "comments": they're all SPAM! No legitimate company would allow such comments to remain on their site for so long.

Another "official looking" Ultrafire site that is suggested as "genuine" above, is run by "Wha Fat Technological Co., Ltd" which is, at least, a real company. But, they are not a manufacturer. They source parts out of China and sell them (after assembly in China) under the ULTRAFIRE brand. But, it does not appear to me that they own any trademarks either. In fact, the trademark they are using is stated to be "Invalid" in a Chinese trademark database.

The real problem here is that *there is no actual ULTRAFIRE company*. And, I cannot even find a single real manufacturer that is clearly associated with the brand. The closest I have found is "Surefire Trading Co., Ltd." out of Jingjiang, but of course they are not a manufacturer either; only a "trading company."

If there is no real company, and there isn't even clear ownership of the trademark, I cannot see how it is possible to have any such thing as a "Genuine Ultrafire." (What can possibly define it as "genuine"?)


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## gadget_lover (Sep 12, 2013)

I find it hard to get excited about a rip off of a rip off. People who buy technology made in China can expect it to be bootleged, copied or cloned or faked, especially when purchased for 1/10th the cost of the real thing. 

I have one of the Amazon WF-502B lights and it's 'good enough' for the $10 - $15 that my friend paid for it. I gave him a Costco Feit 500 lumen 3 C-cell with aspheric lens as a gift and he surprised me with the "Ultrafire". 

The "Ultrafire" is as well made as my most recent Maglite. It has worked every time I've pressed the button. I would not make it my only light in a critical situation, but then again I'd always carry backup lights in that situation.

I would not seek out an Ultrafire product. I would not go out of my way to avoid them either.

Daniel


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## Rosoku Chikara (Sep 12, 2013)

gadget_lover said:


> ...People who buy technology made in China can expect it to be bootleged, copied or cloned or faked, especially when purchased for 1/10th the cost of *the real thing*... [excerpted, emphasis added]



I guess that my point (if I have one) is: How can we know "*the real thing*" when it comes to UltraFire? 

I never intended to get this far into the question, but having done so, I cannot see the answer at all. I do not deny that many "Anything"-Fire flashlights (be they UltraFire, or otherwise) may be good enough lights. In fact, I just ordered one myself, and it looks like it may be a relatively nice little light. My problem is how can you call anything a genuine UltraFire (or "the real thing") when there is no obvious standard... It seems to be all branding and marketing... there is no real company or product.

If I am wrong, please correct me. I am increasingly curious to know what is really going on here.


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## Duff9 (Sep 19, 2013)

You are certainly not alone in that experience. The exact same thing happened to me. Only difference was it was with the 502-B. So it may be a common thread among Ultrafires nowadays. I own three, and only one seems to be authentic. The knurling, emitter, and finish are all different than the other two. Sad thing when companies are copying a basic light of this caliber.


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## thedoc007 (Sep 27, 2013)

J-Dub74 said:


> I can't speak for _all_ Ultrafire products, real or otherwise. I know there are a lot of bad ones out there. That said, I ordered a WF-501b from Fasttech. I've had it for about a week now. It's not the standard black one you see clones of everywhere. Mine has a single mode switch, an xm-l2 emitter and a smooth reflector and it's an anodized grey color that looks awesome. The lighter color shows off the machining which believe it or not is very well done. The knurling is perfect and it feels great in your hand. The smooth reflector casts a beautiful beam without a single artifact or halo. Just based on exterior aesthetics it's beautiful. It's listed at 500 lumens which seems accurate. Will this outlast a Surefire? I'm highly doubt it...but for $13 I am very happy. This is a really nice light. Had I paid $50 for this particular light I would not be disappointed. I know there is a lot of garbage out there with the Ultrafire name on it. I've owned some of it myself but there are good ones out there too.



I want to say thanks for this recommendation. I have lights from Nitecore, Zebralight, Elzetta, Sunwayman, Eagletac, Fenix, etc. I wasn't expecting much out of a $13 light, but if nothing else, I figured I could easily lend it out to people without being too concerned about losing it. Not so with my $50 lights (and up). I also wanted to contribute more real-world data to this thread. So I did order this exact model. And comparing it to the above-mentioned lights, I can say it is a FANTASTIC value. It does look good, the beam is just about perfect, and the lumen rating seems accurate. I compared directly to other lights at similar settings (SC52 on turbo has a very similar beam profile too) and I can say that it was not noticeably dimmer than its rated 500 lumens. I'm not saying it is exactly that, but definitely not greatly over-rated like many cheap lights are. After lubing it up, I also did a water test (simply submerged in a bowl of water, nothing too crazy) for 20 minutes, and it passed with flying colors. No water entered the light, at all. This is impressive for a $13 light, regardless of the manufacturer. 

No, this will not totally replace my more expensive lights. It doesn't feel as solid, the machining on the threads is a little rougher, etc. But I say again, this is an AMAZING value. For non-flashaholics who don't want or need complex modes and advanced functions, this is a great loaner or gift light. And it works and looks better than some lights at quadruple the price. Glad I took the plunge.


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## Bruce722 (Oct 16, 2013)

Just a quick comment to the question in Monocrom's post "Honestly, when was the last time you heard of a companies products that are meant to be used together, not being compatible with each other?"

I recently purchased a Nitecore SRT3 flashlight and Nitecore NL147 (14500 battery). They are not compatible! The SRT3 has a "protection ring" around the contact for the positive end of the battery. The NL147 has a rather flat tip. Guess what? No contact!

I have been emailing Nitecore support and they are worthless. They suggested putting a magnet on the battery to extend the tip (which makes the battery too long). After I told them that was unacceptable, they told me to use another brand of battery!

Has anybody had similar experience with the SRT3 and NL147 compatibility?


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## Rosoku Chikara (Dec 3, 2013)

As I posted in this thread quite some time ago, I had decided to purchase a "UranusFire" flashlight for my "collection," just because of the highly "unusual" brand name. Well, it has taken quite some time to actually receive it, but I finally have it.

It is actually a reasonably well-made CR123A flashlight. I am not a big fan of CR123A flashlights, but I didn't want anything large and "high priced" nor did I want anything than ran on 18650s, so this WF-602C seemed like the best choice. (I couldn't find any AA flashlights marketed under the "UranusFire" brand when I was looking.)

Well, as it happened, DX promptly sent me an "UltraFire" WF-602C. I complained to them that that was not what I had ordered, and I opened a ticket, and sent many pictures trying to explain what my complaint was... it apparently took them quite some time to finally understand that I didn't just want a flashlight with the same functional design, I wanted one with that particular brand name printed on it. 

The following photo ultimately seemed to help:





By this time, I was getting rather disappointed that I had missed my "opportunity" to ever own a genuine "UranusFire" because I figured that they had already been discontinued (and, in my opinion, rightly so). But, that made me want one even more, so I told DX that while I refused to pay for the "UltraFire" that they had sent me (I offered to return it to them at their expense), I would be willing to pay for both, if they would find me an actual "UranusFire" in good functional and cosmetic condition.

Well, it took quite some time, but it finally arrived the other day. Here are photos both flashlights, side-by-side. (As you can see, the "UranusFire" is about 4-5 mm longer.)








For whatever reason, DX did not accept my offer to pay for both, they only charged me for one, so I got two fairly nice little flashlights for $10.30 total. By the way, they both seem to be nice enough (meaning highly functional, and fairly reliable), but of the two, the "UltraFire" does appear to be slightly "better." Mainly, I like the fact that it is slightly smaller (shorter).


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## Lightning Bub (Dec 6, 2013)

I am happy to hear you got "UranusFire"! Very unusual name, indeed!


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## RoGuE_StreaK (Dec 6, 2013)

I have brothers-in-law that would love that one.
Would be a good promotional giveaway from an Indian restaurant. (there's an appropriate smiley in the "more" list, but I think you get the point)


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## Rosoku Chikara (Dec 6, 2013)

RoGuE_StreaK said:


> ... Would be a good promotional giveaway from an Indian restaurant...



Yeah, I hear you "loud and clear." And, as it so happens, I *do* enjoy hot peppers, and actually grow my own super-hot Bhut Jolokia and Fatali peppers at home. (My brother has been joking with me about that fact, ever since I told him about this new flashlight.)

But, as I posted on this thread back in September, I once thought that I had no interest in "Anything-Fire" flashlights, but then...


> I suddenly realized that I was wrong: There was *one* "Anything"-Fire brand that I *would* want in my "collection."



I think you would have to admit that a flashlight with this brand name has quite a lot of potential as a "conversation piece." 

What I find hard to imagine, however, is just what the person in China was actually thinking when they thought that this would be a good name for marketing flashlights within the English speaking world...


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## RoGuE_StreaK (Dec 6, 2013)

According to the fountain of all knowledge (wikipedia), "In the Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese languages, its name is literally translated as the *sky king star*", so maybe it's thought of as the king of all the lights at night (well, moon notwithstanding). Supposedly astronomers put the stress on the first sylable, ie. the "u" sound, whereas us commoners put the stress on the second, ie. the "a" sound, most likely due to this childish(!?) link to the embedded word.
Maybe they never heard the "common" pronunciation, so never made the link?


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## N8N (Dec 6, 2013)

"Uranus" is actually a Latinization of the Greek Ouranos (which still might be close enough for scatological puns, but not so painfully obvious...) It's not clear to me, and I have no knowledge of most Eastern languages, whether that entry is referring to the translation of Uranus/Ouranos into those languages, or if somehow in one of those odd coincidences, Eastern astronomers named a celestial object surprisingly similarly to the Greek deity for whom it was formally named after it was discovered to actually be a planet? I'm guessing the former.

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## Rosoku Chikara (Dec 6, 2013)

Excellent comments *RoGuE StreaK* and *N8N*. Yet another mystery solved!

I also did a little checking, and as *RoGuE Streak *says, the Chinese word for Uranus is: "天王星" (天="sky," 王="king," and 星=something like "star" or "spark" when used in combination with other characters). So, it is not such a bad name for a flashlight in Chinese. (And as *N8N* correctly points out, this is indeed almost identical in meaning to Ouranos, who was the Greek "god of the sky.") 

And, no doubt, it was the simple "mistake" of not understanding English "slang" or common pronunciation with its "hidden meaning" which led them to use the direct translation in English. 

Despite my having a little "childish" fun over their error, I realize such "mistakes" happen all the time. While the Mitsubishi "Pajero" is sold in the USA where many people do speak Spanish, I understand that it is called a Mitsubishi "Montero" in most Spanish speaking countries. (As I understand it, a "Pajero" is not something you particularly wish to be called in Spanish.)


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## N8N (Dec 6, 2013)

Actually it's called the Montero here as well, Spanish being somewhat of an unofficial second language. It is apparently sold in Australia and Europe as Pajero though. Even worse, Mazda apparently made a car called "Laputa" - really...! Of course were it not for mistakes like this we'd have much less to snicker about.

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## Tiresius (Dec 8, 2013)

How do they like them apples? They are copies and now someone else is copying their lol


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