# HID headlights legality



## FredM (Jan 19, 2007)

My car uses H13 bulbs and I want to go HID. I see dual ballastkits available for high/low.

I assume they use the same arc tube and run it at a higher wattage for hiugh beams, anyone seen this and know if it changes the color temp?
Also can someone link me to a quality kit? Thanks!


----------



## Ra (Jan 20, 2007)

Hi FredM,

I don't like to dissapoint you, but in most countries its illegal to swap halogen for HID in a halogen-fixture ! And there is a good reason:

The reflector or lens-setup of the car-lights needs to be designed for HID, most important for low-beam ! The surface brightness of HID is about 4-5 times higher compared to halogen, that also means 4-5 times lightspill in directions where light is not wanted. You are definitely going to blind people, and I don't think that is what you want!

Beleve me, I've tried it myself: I have seperate fixtures for low and high-beam. About a year ago, I put HID into the low beam: WOW,, a sea of light was the result ! BUT, the reactions around me were not quite positive: Fellow drivers blinking their headlights, pedestrians looking away and pointing I should switch off my high beams !! So the joy didn't last long!

Instead I put the HID bulbs in my high-beams, a much better way to enjoy the power of HID, because I only use them when no people or drivers are around..

So.. My advice: DON'T !! At least not in low-beams..:duck:



Regards,

Ra.


----------



## awm (Jan 20, 2007)

For 100% legal standings, _ANY_ modification you do to your car after it has left the dealership is considered illegal. Its also illegal to walk ducks in the middle of New York City after 6 pm on Saturdays, but I don't think anyone is going to get arrested for it. 

There are laws on the books that don't make any sense, the question should be: "if I upgrade to HID will I be pulled over by the first cop that sees my new headlights?" The answer so far has been 'no'. I have never heard of anyone with a 3000k-8000k colored headlight/foglight getting pulled over for it.

If you are driving a 16000k purple headlight you "asking" for attention and you will probably get it. Again I doubt you will be pulled over for that specifically but if you do, it may add to the fine.

I have had HID headlights/foglights (6000k) on my car for about 2 years, no problems. I know at least 2 cops that have upgraded their own cars and bikes with HID 8000k.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Ra (Jan 20, 2007)

The choice is yours, FredM...


Regards,

Ra.


----------



## Timson (Jan 20, 2007)

FredM,

All the Bi-Xenon kits I have seen have only a single arc and achieve the high / low by moving the position of that arc within the headlight housing.

The method that most manufacturers seem to be going for now is the whole lamp capsule is attached to a solenoid , which when activated (ie main beams on) pulls the entire lamp capsule further into the reflector to a position, roughly where the filament for your high beam would be in a standard lamp - for a high beam effect.

The operation of the arc remains constant and does not change throughout the transition from High to low.

These Bi-Xenons are a compromise and will never place the arc in the absolute correct place for your reflectors (because they are made to be retro-fitted into all headlamps rather than specifically for your cars headlights), so your beam profile will not be so accurate. As Ra states you will get a significant amount of light scatter which may bother other road users - depending on how far out the arc's position is from that of your stock lamps.

In the UK HID headlights have to be self levelling and have an auto wash feature to minimise the possibility of dazzle and light scatter.

Tim.


----------



## St8kout (Jan 20, 2007)

I can legally install HID headlights in my BMW, but only if I install the complete (and enormously expensive) OEM system, including self-leveling headlight mountings. Parts alone run about $3000-$5000! 

They are also a high-risk theft item. The bad guys know how to take them without even opening the hood and setting off the alarm. No thanks.


----------



## 65535 (Jan 20, 2007)

I was always a fan of HID.


----------



## LED61 (Jan 20, 2007)

FredM, you have been given some good advice here. There are modders out there that will fit HID projectors in your headlamp fixtures and do a very nice job at it. You can buy the projectors, bulbs, and ballasts on Ebay. And you can also do this yourself...it is not easy. And yes it is illegal. But, you can aim your low beams for a standard drop of 2.1" for every 25ft and with projectors your lights will not be bothersome. If you want to pursue this matter, this is the wrong forum, I suggest you go here

http://faqlight.carpassion.info/

hope this helps.


----------



## FredM (Jan 20, 2007)

Just to clarify to make it work I need to 

1. Point the beam down towards the road more.

2. Pull the bulb back in the reflector (which was designed for the orig bulb) to reduce flood.

Is this correct?


----------



## Sable (Jan 20, 2007)

I'm a huge fan of HIDs. But both the cars I drive had them installed by the factory, so...


----------



## BingPWR (Jan 20, 2007)

LED61 is right! If you have a halogen headlamp, please don't get the aftermarket ones without modifying your headlight! I highly suggest retrofitting some projectors to keep it looking OEM, and to maintain that nice cutoff line.


----------



## f1rchifi (Feb 3, 2007)

Actually a lot of the new versions of HID conversion kits, mostly made in China, have a shield or cover in the bulb assembly thereby having a similar beam cut-off to the original halogen lights. I have tried both versions and the newer ones do not glare anymore oncoming vehicles.

Some units provide a high beam by sliding the bulb assembly back and forth via a solenoid. High beam pattern not too useful and scattered as expected. Others include a small halogen bulb beside the HID bulb to provide the high beam.

Aim the lights properly and the increase in light output really relieves the strain of night driving.

Cheers.


----------



## XeRay (Feb 3, 2007)

FredM said:


> Just to clarify to make it work I need to
> 
> 1. Point the beam down towards the road more.
> 
> ...


 
No this is not correct. Just getting the arc in the correct position will not eliminate glare.


----------



## Ra (Feb 3, 2007)

Exactly XeRay,

That's what I tried to say earlier, but some just won't listen !!! :tsk:

HID has about four times the surface brightness of halogen: ANY GLARE COMMING FROM THE SIDE OF THE LIGHTS WILL SEEM AT LEAST FOUR TIMES BIGGER !! Why ?? Due to the fact that the HID has a more blueish colortemperature, the glare will be even more annoying to others, because at night your eyes are more sensitive to blue!

And don't walk around your car saying "Ohh, the glare is acceptable..." As a HID-lover, you are not objective about this: What you think is acceptable, can be annoying to others !! :duck:

WAKE UP GUYZZZ !!:

YOU NEED A FIXTURE DESIGNED FOR HID !!!


Regards,

Ra.


----------



## carllivesfordream (Feb 3, 2007)

Dear LED61,
How are you ? I am a new comer here  I must learn from all of you 
What LED products are you dealing with ? 

Best 
Carl.


----------



## LED61 (Feb 3, 2007)

carllivesfordream said:


> Dear LED61,
> How are you ? I am a new comer here  I must learn from all of you
> What LED products are you dealing with ?
> 
> ...


 
Hello carllivesfordream, I really don't "deal" with LED's, it's just my username. I have thought about changing it more to represent my real name, I might do it one of these days.


----------



## LED61 (Feb 3, 2007)

Regarding modding, HID projectors are different from halogen projectors in that they are toned down in places, and use the extra lumens from HID capsules to project light more to the sides and yes also brighter and evenly about. Part of an HID fixture as Ra put it is these projectors. Rarely will you see an OEM, though there are, on HID reflector fixture and I have found these to be most anoying even if OEM. HID retrofits on reflector fixtures are out of the question, and these kits out there like the H4's sometimes use that moving the capsule forward and back with a solenoid. Autolamps-online in England, one of the very best manufacturers of kits out there using genuine Philips ballasts and bulbs, used this system back a while. It was dropped because it was found that the movement of the capsule shortened bulb life dramatically.

So, you need HID projectors fitted properly in the fixture. Leave the projectors too far back or allow stray light to hit the reflectors and you'll put out unbelievable glare.

All this and you're still illegal in the United States.


----------



## Hallis (Feb 3, 2007)

If your car is from a jap manufacturer like mine is there are probably OEM HID housings available from cars in the JDM market. I ordered a set of genuine factory Subaru OEM HID housings, bulbs, and ballasts. Unlike the US housings which are reflectors for halogens these are projectors. they are awesome. 

Shane


----------



## GreySave (Feb 3, 2007)

Coming from the automotive profession, the best suggestions that I can provide are:


1.) Check your state and local regulations. Know what they do and do not permit. Please keep in mind that what is legal in your area may not be legal in another (If traveling on vacation for example)

2.) If your state has an inspection requirement, be sure to verify that any modifications will permit the vehicle to pass that inspection. Yes, I know you can always find someone who might slap a sticker on an otherwise technically illegal vehicle, but that is NOT the smart thing to do (See item 4). 

3.) Do it right. Do it smart. If it cannot be done properly and safety or if you cannot affort to do it properly or safely then leave it alone (See item 4). Also be sure to verify that your vehicle can handle the modifications and that you have the technical ability to do them. Many of todays newer vehicles have many microprocessors, and in many vehicles they "talk" to one another. Some have microprocessors that control exterior lighting. Making a mistake during a modifiation could lead to some very interesting, and perhaps expensive, complications.

4.) All three of the above suggestions are intended to keep you and others on the road safe. From the perspective of other drivers, that means that your modifications do not create an undesirable and perhaps dangerous side effect that could cause property damage or a physical injury to someone else. From your perspective, all three of the above suggestions help to keep you physically safe and reduce if not eliminate the possibility of you being charged criminally or face civil action if, for example, your modifications cause an accident by blinding another driver. 

With over 26 years of experience in the automotive profession, I can tell you that I have seen some very nicely done, safe, and legal (in our area) modifications of all types to various vehicles. I have also seen some incredibly stupid and foolish ventures that were outright unsafe and could have led to some serious problems. Since I do not know your level of technical ability I am in no position to make a recommendation beyond being both smart and safe.


----------



## wulfgang (Feb 4, 2007)

Timson said:


> FredM,
> 
> All the Bi-Xenon kits I have seen have only a single arc and achieve the high / low by moving the position of that arc within the headlight housing.
> 
> The method that most manufacturers seem to be going for now is the whole lamp capsule is attached to a solenoid , which when activated (ie main beams on) pulls the entire lamp capsule further into the reflector to a position, roughly where the filament for your high beam would be in a standard lamp - for a high beam effect.


 
Cool. I read some journal articles where they were using solenoids to produce a tailored magnetic field to move the arc itself in order to create a high/low beam function. No moving parts. But I think the bulbs were special DC bulbs, not the AC bulbs you normally see. AC would make things a bit more difficult...


----------



## WJM (Feb 7, 2007)

Hallis said:


> If your car is from a jap manufacturer like mine is there are probably OEM HID housings available from cars in the JDM market. I ordered a set of genuine factory Subaru OEM HID housings, bulbs, and ballasts. Unlike the US housings which are reflectors for halogens these are projectors. they are awesome.
> 
> Shane



Hmm....but if those units are JDM-only, then they have the wrong, LHD-orientation....


----------



## Hallis (Feb 7, 2007)

WJM said:


> Hmm....but if those units are JDM-only, then they have the wrong, LHD-orientation....



but the important thing is they'll display the proper cutoffs and beam pattern. i've talked to very many people that have them and they say it is FAR better than the USDM housings. There are European LHD projectors but they are made for incans so the beam pattern isnt good. 

Shane


----------



## FredM (Feb 7, 2007)

Well i just checked out some Saleen housings and they are identical to mine except the front shield and mechanism to move the arc forward and back.


----------



## Schnotts (Feb 10, 2007)

I don't know about the US but I am a cop here in Northern, Ontario where there are all kinds of moose running around on the highways at night. You're only allowed 4 lights on at once to the front but the bulk of us could care less how many lights are on and how bright they are. As long as driver's turn them off and switch to their high beams when oncoming traffic is coming, no problem. An immigrant driving transport last night on my night shift left his high beams on and off-road lights on as he drove towards me and almost blinded me. He ended up with $500 worth of tickets.

Then again, our northern Ontario highways sees little traffic at night.

Up here, the more light the better!!


----------



## mdocod (Feb 11, 2007)

Schnotts, I really appreciate your input on this thread!

I was just about to suggest to Fred that rather than install HIDs in his headlamps.. that he install auxiliary lighting... which could contain HID... Only use it when there is nobody around to disturb.. There are HID fixtures with built in ballasts available in many sizes and shapes... I guess it also depends on what kinda car.. huge offroading lights on top of a civic might look a tad silly... (I'd do it!)

I wasn't sure how LEOs would treat that... but I assume most LEOs would take a similar stance as yours Schnotts.. As long as you shut them off for oncoming traffic- who cares, more light is safer for the driver in places with a lot of possible large animal crossings.


----------



## sorka (May 4, 2007)

I recently installed a cheap 35watt HID kit I bought off ebay. The ballasts are the integrated D2 design with the ignitor built in. Not as slick as the newer slim design model.

I was concerned about the result before installing them. I have a '95 SC400 with projectors for the low beams. They provide a nice cutoff point to the front and sides.

What I was surprised by was how much sharper the cutoff is with the HID bubls. Only explanation I can think of is smaller frontal surface of emission compared to the larger fillaments. 

So far I haven't been flashed. I don't think I will be. I've walked around the at distances that where the cutoff is on the ground. No glare. In fact, it almost looks like the lights aren't on when looking at the headlights. The only way you really know their on is by looking at the ground.

No levelers and no washers. I would definately not recommend HIDs as a retrofit unless you have projectors that have a cutoff shield inside. 


I also don't recommend them for high beams. Flicking your highs won't work very well and HID ballasts don't like to be turned on and off rapidly which is why bi-xenons have mechanical shields that move to extend the beam.


----------



## 2xTrinity (May 4, 2007)

I absolutely hate HID headlights -- even ones using proper fixtures. That is because I live in a very hilly area (where a good 5-10% of the cars it seems have switched to HID... based on counting the headlights I see) -- while the HID lights have a sharp cutoff, and are fine on perfectly level roads, if I am going up a hill, and someone with HID lights is starting to descend in the opposite direction, that vehicle's low beams will be projected straight into my face. Also, if a driver with HID headlights is waiting at red light and he happens to be stopped on an incline, that driver will be blinding just about everyone else waiting at the intersection, even with high-tech self leveling OEM fixtures -- those only help on roads with _uniform_ incline, or in things like trucks where the back is sagged down due to load, not intersections between level roads, and inclined roads.

In general I'm a huge fan of higher-color temp lighting, I use high color-temp indoor lighting, and I can see more clearly under those sorts of lights. However, I prefer fluorescent light that is inherently diffused to HID. HID lights can be good, but only if installed in fixtures with indirect reflectors so that there is NO DIRECT GLARE. The high color temperature (say 4200K) means that it's much easier to see the objects being illuminated by the light (that's part of the reason the full moon is so effective at lighting things up -- it's also so diffused that one can look at it without discomfort), but direct glare from a bright arc is very, very bad IMO. A catch-22. 

This is also part of the reason why I'm starting to switch to optics instead of reflectors for LED flashlights -- with a lot of LED flashlights, the bright spill that spreads out is very irritating if shined at others, even unintentionally. For flood, I'm starting to use lights with wide-angle optics that gradually fade to a much dimmer spill. For throw lights, I'm starting to like aspheric lenses.


----------



## Ikonomi (May 4, 2007)

Once upon a time I put HIDs in my last car. I purchased a set of factory original housings/ballasts ($600) and retro-fitted them. I would NOT recommend most after-market HID kits. The glare from standard halogen reflectors is alarming, and they just don't look good.

But... oh, how I miss those HIDs. They lit up the road like it was daylight and were absolutely delicious on long highway trips. I always wanted to upgrade the high beams, as they were standard halogens, but the warm-up time of HID assemblies isn't well suited (in my opinion) to high beams, which usually need to switch on and off much more frequently than low beams. I remember reading about HIR (halogen internal/infrared reflection) bulbs here in CPF. Now there's a neat idea.


----------



## Xzn (May 5, 2007)

I drive a 2000 Acura TL and my mom drives a 2003 Acura TL Type S.

Both use HID's and they don't have projectors and they DONT glare. 

Just because an HID lamp is being used doesn't mean a projector is required. Instead, the housing requires a D2R lamp instead of a D2S. A D2S will project light in 360 degrees while the D2R is only 180. The other half is blocked with the onboard reflector.

You're better off trying your luck with a D2R.


----------



## LED61 (May 6, 2007)

Xzn said:


> I drive a 2000 Acura TL and my mom drives a 2003 Acura TL Type S.
> 
> Both use HID's and they don't have projectors and they DONT glare.
> 
> ...


 
Are these OEM setups ? D2R's actually put out thorugh more than 180 degrees. If it puts out only 180 degrees, you would be effectively blocking 50% of the lumen output and it does not. D2S's are specified at 3200 lumens against something like 3000 for the D2R's.


----------



## TorchBoy (May 6, 2007)

FredM said:


> Just to clarify to make it work I need to
> 
> 1. Point the beam down towards the road more.
> 
> ...


"Hey, it's illegal, dangerous, and inconsiderate to other road users... but I think I can get away with it."

How about "3. Get the laws changes."?

Or you could do it right and use the proper fittings, or like others have said use auxiliary lights to get your HID fix.


----------



## LuxLuthor (May 7, 2007)

Schnotts said:


> I don't know about the US but I am a cop here in Northern, Ontario where there are all kinds of moose running around on the highways at night. You're only allowed 4 lights on at once to the front but the bulk of us could care less how many lights are on and how bright they are. As long as driver's turn them off and switch to their high beams when oncoming traffic is coming, no problem. An immigrant driving transport last night on my night shift left his high beams on and off-road lights on as he drove towards me and almost blinded me. *He ended up with $500 worth of tickets.*
> 
> Then again, our northern Ontario highways sees little traffic at night.
> 
> Up here, the more light the better!!



WoW $500 for having high beams & off road lights on? I agree with ticketting him, but that seems like an awful lot of money for that. Sometimes I have my high beams on and just get lost in thought or music and forget until someone flashes me.


----------



## Xzn (May 7, 2007)

LED61 said:


> Are these OEM setups ? D2R's actually put out thorugh more than 180 degrees. If it puts out only 180 degrees, you would be effectively blocking 50% of the lumen output and it does not. D2S's are specified at 3200 lumens against something like 3000 for the D2R's.


All Acura TL's from 1999-2003 use reflector housings. 

Some of the older Lexus ES300's do also.

It doesn't "block" the lumens, it simply reflects it the other way.


----------



## LED61 (May 7, 2007)

Xzn said:


> All Acura TL's from 1999-2003 use reflector housings.
> 
> Some of the older Lexus ES300's do also.
> 
> It doesn't "block" the lumens, it simply reflects it the other way.


 
Hi Xzn, I hope the info contained in this link points you in the correct direction regarding D2R hid capsules. The masking does not reflect, but effectively blocks lumens in certain glare areas, not all. And note that the light source itself is free from projecting light right underneath.

http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-hid-bulbs.htm


----------



## Dregan (May 30, 2007)

Truth of the matter is, as long as the housing is DOT-compliant for use with HID and not halogen, and you use the proper temp. bulb (I like 5000k personally, but 4300K is stock) you are ok.

But, you ask, what if my housing was not designed for HID? How can I tell?

Well, if your car didn't come with HID from the factory, then it most likely isn't capable. There are a few manufacturer that use the same projector housings for both, like Acura and some VW's, but thay are the exception.

So ya still want HID? No problem.

Go to www.hidplanet.com and scope out their wares. You can order the projector housing, good ballasts, Phillips burners, everything, in a nice neat kit. (I prefer Valeo projectors, but the Bosch e42's that they have in stock for $150 less are pretty much just as good) After that, you'll need to pull your housing, tear it apart, yank out the existing low beam fixture, and wedge the new projectors in there. Then ya gotta seal your pod back up, and suff it (plust the new ballasts and all the new wiring) back in. After all this, you will be 100% legal everywhere in the US. As far as our northern friends, I'm not familiar with their laws.

HIDPlanet also has a very, _very_ informative forum. I suggest you ask around there for a bit.

Incidentally, I've personally done at least 20 of these conversions. I've never had an issue with any of them, even the ones that go to states that have the most comprehensive vehicle inspections.


----------



## LED61 (May 31, 2007)

Valeos are my favorite projectors!! Who's to say they don't project the nicest colors in a Porche Cayene for example ?


----------

