# ultramarathon headlamp?



## rapidoxidationman (Jun 20, 2009)

Hey y'all

I'm looking for a higher end headlamp to present an ultramarathon runner with on her birthday in the beginning of July. 

Desired specs:

1) Light weight so it doesn't bounce around
2) ~150 lumens of light from a single LED
3) Ability to change focus from spot to flood
4) Dimmable
5) Electronically regulated so it won't dim until I want it to (or the batteries are dead)
6) Long run time, preferably 10-12 hour minimum
7) Water resistant if not waterproof
8) Multi fuel would be nice (AA NiMH rechargeable or CR123)

The Coast LED Lenser H7 nearly fits, but I'm not sure if it is regulated, I don't know how much it weighs (and it doesn't have a top strap) and it only runs on AAA's... Then again, it only costs $60. 

Suggestions?


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## Juggernaut (Jun 20, 2009)

rapidoxidationman said:


> Hey y'all
> 1) Light weight so it doesn't bounce around
> 2) ~150 lumens of light from a single LED
> 5) Electronically regulated so it won't dim until I want it to (or the batteries are dead)
> 6) Long run time, preferably 10-12 hour minimum


 
You can't have all of these.

I’m no head light export, or even remotely knowledgeable about them. But I can tell you are not going to find a head lamp with a regulated 150 lumen output for 11 or more hours. My 3x 18650 Wolf eyes M90 Rattlesnake running an LF R2 LA is regulated for 6.6 hours at 180 out the front lumens and most people think that it way to long with the extender on it. You would need at least 5x 18650s rated at least 2600 mah for that much run time, at that output, your not going to wear that on your head so unless you wanted a belt carried battery pack “fine for walking around with” but not a running marathon:shakehead!”


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## turbodog (Jun 21, 2009)

Some of the zebralight series are worth looking at. They don't meet all the specs, but that's commercially impossible.


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## half-watt (Jun 21, 2009)

can probably meet most of your requirements, but with an array of hi-powered LEDs outputting up to 350lm, IIRC.


here's what you want, IMO - a purpose built headlamp from a quality, reputable manufacturer. here's a link==>http://www.brightguy.com/products/Petzl_Ultra_Belt_ACCU2_E53_AC2.php

go to BrightGuy.com and the Petzl website and look at the Ultra and Ultra-belt. they were designed specifically for the purpose which you have in mind and are used by professional adventure racers.

they aren't inexpensive, mind you (>$300USD).

the Ultra-belt which is probably the preferred model since it removed the weight of the battery pack from the head which is important when running, especially over rough/semi-rough terrrain with one's head bobbing about, and the Ultra-belt also provides ~2x the burntime due to its greater battery capacity. 

BG also carries a lightweight racer's vest on which the remote battery pack can be mounted. Lastly the slightly cheaper Ultra can also accept a longer remote cable to remote the smaller Ultra (versus Ultra-belt, that is) battery pack to the vest, pack, or pocket. to my somewhat limited knowledge, the Ultra-belt would be the top-of-the-line. this would be the HL i would likely purchase if i were younger and was able to spend a lot of time out in the forest hiking at night (my use, but the Ultra and Ultra-belt were designed for Adventure Racing and like activities).

i've bought from Greg Atwell (owner of BrightGuy) for 6+ years now. many, many purchases and never a problem on any single order. i didn't take note of your location (if it was indicated in your Post), but he's in Ohio and also has a Brick-and-Mortar store there [i've never been there myself, being a few hundred miles away] if you want to see its performance before buying.


a less expensive, though NOT as bright alternative is the Primus Race (uses a very nice single Rebel LED). i own this one and it is a very nice HL also. search CPF for it (others have commented on it), and check the HL "sticky" at the beginning of the HL section of the CPF Forums. the first post is WAY TOO LONG, but in it you'll find some brief qualitative comments on the Primus Race which comes close, but not quite, to meetings some of your requirements. i'm very happy with the Primus Race, and it might suffice his needs, but not being a racer myself, i would guess that the Ultra-belt (and maybe also the Petzl vest that they designed to go with it) would definitely be satisfactory or more than satisfactory for her needs - though at much greater expense.

hope this info helps.


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## half-watt (Jun 21, 2009)

turbodog said:


> Some of the zebralight series are worth looking at. They don't meet all the specs, but that's commercially impossible.



i love all four of my ZL HLs (H50, H30, H60, H501). i find so many uses for them. they are really excellent in many ways. i can easily carry all four of them and still have less weight in lighting than i might have using a single more conventional, larger HL.

however, i'm not sure that any ZL (even the H60) would work for that particular application. even on its highest output my H60 probably lacks sufficient throw for picking out terrain, etc. in sufficient time while running 4-8 mph to make a decision as to route.

i've never raced, but i used to be an ultralight backpacker and often was moving at up to 4 to 4.5 mph (more often 3 to 3.5 mph, or less up steep hills) over the rough forest trails of the Northeast. i wanted to be able to spot faded, low-contrast blazes marking turns/bends on unfamiliar, indistinct trails in order to not wander off the trail. to make sure that i didn't miss these markers, my personal requirement was to be able to clearly see a large enough area at least 30 feet away.

at 4mph one is moving nearly 6 feet a second (the racer will be moving faster) only gave me 5 seconds (at my 30' requirement) to spot/pick-out these markers and make adjustments in my course which could also involve rocks, trees, tree roots, etc in my way. 

huffing and puffing, often under tree cover, in the pitch dark (other than my light source), sometimes stumbling a bit because of a toe strike on rough terrain, or a partial ankle roll for similar reason (i.e., rough terrain), alternating between taking quick looks nearer my feet to examine the terrain so that the two aforementioned occurrences wouldn't hopefully, well... occur, and then lifting my eyes and or head to look further down trail, occasionally stuffing my hydration bladder's bite-valve or a pack-strap mounted water bottle's "sippy" straw into my mouth to take a quick drink while on the move, or stuffing some GORP (Good Ol' Raisins and Peanuts) or Super-GORP (aka "Trail Mix") into my mouth while attempting to keep my light trained up ahead detracts slightly from concentrating solely on navigating in the dark forest. the new H60 on its highest might work (illumination area obviously isn't the issue for any ZL, but throw is another matter), but it's burntime on HI won't cut it.

just my two shekels based upon some experience.


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## ToTo (Jun 21, 2009)

The Petzl RXP meets your reqirements

Petzl Ultra would be an more expensiv option


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## BSBG (Jun 21, 2009)

This has been covered a few times before, with a lot of well-meaning bad and some good advice. An overnight ultra does not call for a ton of light, it is not the same as night orienteering. Once dark adapted, 20 to 30 lumens is probably enough as you are not going to be running very fast anyway. 

Most ultra runners use a headlamp plus a handheld to increase shadows and contrast. 

Battery commonality is important - you can beg or borrow AAs from someone else, but who but a flashaholic has 123s? You can have spares in your drop bag at an aid station, so you really don't need 11 hrs of run time, just enough from one aid station to the next (assuming there are aid stations).

This is what I use: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/195261&highlight=running

Another thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/223362


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## half-watt (Jun 21, 2009)

BSBG said:


> This has been covered a few times before, with a lot of well-meaning bad and some good advice. An overnight ultra does not call for a ton of light, it is not the same as night orienteering...



good to know. many thanks for the insight.

with 20-30 lm only and even multi-day events, if you're not running over an entire night or more, why are spare cells necessary? b/t the HL and the handheld that's only 10-15 lm each to make up the 20-30 lm. they ought to burn quite a long time, at such a low o.p. level, depending upon one's lighting sources. some lights will stay in regulation and o.p. 15lm for over 20h. what am i missing?

how much throw do y'all need? how fast are you traveling when you race? please advise. many thanks.


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## BSBG (Jun 21, 2009)

half-watt said:


> good to know. many thanks for the insight.
> 
> with 20-30 lm only and even multi-day events, if you're not running over an entire night or more, why are spare cells necessary? b/t the HL and the handheld that's only 10-15 lm each to make up the 20-30 lm. they ought to burn quite a long time, at such a low o.p. level, depending upon one's lighting sources. some lights will stay in regulation and o.p. 15lm for over 20h. what am i missing?
> 
> how much throw do y'all need? how fast are you traveling when you race? please advise. many thanks.



I meant 20-30 lumens each, but you are correct - spare cells will likely not be necessary. "likely" being the key word - the last thing you need is to be in the dark in the middle of nowhere because you forgot to change cells before the event. The weight of 2AAs in your pack will not make any difference, and can be a lifesaver.

Speed is dependent on the individual. I have no idea how competitive the OP's friend is, but if she were winning races she would already have a headlamp .

I use a Zenix IQ with an SSC P4 mod and run it on low most of the time. With lithium AAs it runs about forever. Any of the commonly recommended headlamps around here - the EOS, BD Spot, etc will be fine, especially if supplemented with a handheld (I like an E2e with an MN02, but most use an LED light). You can run the HL on low or medium most of the time, with the occasional flip to high for that "bump in the woods" hallucination that occurs after running 60 or 70 miles.


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## half-watt (Jun 21, 2009)

BSBG, many thanks for your reply and for taking the time to enlighten me. take care.


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## Changchung (Jun 21, 2009)

I love my H60 with 190 lumen and 2 hours of runtime or 110 lumen 4 hours I think is the best option right now...


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## rapidoxidationman (Jun 21, 2009)

BSBG said:


> I meant 20-30 lumens each, but you are correct - spare cells will likely not be necessary. "likely" being the key word - the last thing you need is to be in the dark in the middle of nowhere because you forgot to change cells before the event. The weight of 2AAs in your pack will not make any difference, and can be a lifesaver.
> 
> Speed is dependent on the individual. I have no idea how competitive the OP's friend is, but if she were winning races she would already have a headlamp .
> 
> I use a Zenix IQ with an SSC P4 mod and run it on low most of the time. With lithium AAs it runs about forever. Any of the commonly recommended headlamps around here - the EOS, BD Spot, etc will be fine, especially if supplemented with a handheld (I like an E2e with an MN02, but most use an LED light). You can run the HL on low or medium most of the time, with the occasional flip to high for that "bump in the woods" hallucination that occurs after running 60 or 70 miles.


 
Yup, she's got a headlamp already, a Petzl that has been around the world; I'm just looking to find her something more better... As far as competitive goes, she's run a couple of badwaters, Hell's Hills, Rocky Racoons, and is going for the Spartathlon later this year: 156 miles in 36 hours, IIRC...:huh:

Thanks for all the replies.

Anyone have experience with the Coast H7?


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## hurricane (Jun 23, 2009)

There are lots of threads on this, but check-out Petzl's Ultramarathon lights, Mila [Swedish], and Lupine [German]. These are the big names in running lights. The most important thing is to get the batteries off your head. The cheapest option would simply be a Petzl Myo XP BELT ... bright, simple, light.


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## codypop (Jun 24, 2009)

rapidoxidationman said:


> Yup, she's got a headlamp already, a Petzl that has been around the world; I'm just looking to find her something more better... As far as competitive goes, she's run a couple of badwaters, Hell's Hills, Rocky Racoons, and is going for the Spartathlon later this year: 156 miles in 36 hours, IIRC...:huh:
> 
> Thanks for all the replies.
> 
> Anyone have experience with the Coast H7?



20 to 30 lumen won't be enough light for her in a fit. She probably runs pretty fast (8 mph or so) on very technical trails while extremely fatigued. She needs LOADS of light.

The PT Apex Extreme is also based on a very good headlamp, and uses AA batteries (but eight of them) in a belt pouch. You may be able to insert only four of the eight AAs to reduce weight, depending on needs. I'd ask at Brightguy.

Good luck, to you and her. She sounds very gifted.


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## JHJHJH (Jun 24, 2009)

If very light and powerfull lamp is needed I would say Jagges Wally is hard to beat. If that desingn is modified to use leds in parallel you will have lamp weighting 340g with 6 AA batteries and headband. Lamp would have with low mode 130 lumens for 14 hours and high mode of 600 lumens for 3 hours.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/230842

This could be used also with 3 AA batteries with half runtime. You can do it yourself adding some value for the present...

From Lupine Tesla or Wilma would be very good choice from commercial sources if cost is not an issue. But for some reason Jagge seems to be using Wally instead of Wilma even if the choice is free....


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## Offroad'Bent (Jun 24, 2009)

A friend of mine's doing a 100 mile run. She'll be using a 130 lumen PT Apex with the 8AA belt battery pack.

I recently helped set up the Blaze runners who set a record for the 900km Bruce Trail Run.

Since I'm not as handy as Jagge with his Wall-E light... They used Night Lightning Mini-Blaasts with Lithium Polymer batteries from Batteryspace, for hard technical running.
They spent less than they would on Petzl Ultras, but got more than twice the power. They ran them at 800 lumens or so, and got 6 hours out of a 5700mah battery. They would have gotten perhaps 20 hours on medium power, and 70 or so on low- probably 100 lumens.

We had to rig up headbands from stretch velcro straps, as the Night Lightning headbands weren't ready yet.
These lights could also run on 8AAs.

Mind you, some of the runners just used PT Apex lights for that too.



hurricane said:


> There are lots of threads on this, but check-out Petzl's Ultramarathon lights, Mila [Swedish], and Lupine [German]. These are the big names in running lights. The most important thing is to get the batteries off your head. The cheapest option would simply be a Petzl Myo XP BELT ... bright, simple, light.


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