# Eneloop from Sanyo now available



## abvidledUK (Sep 28, 2006)

http://www.eneloop.ca/index.html


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## greg_in_canada (Sep 28, 2006)

The Source (formerly Radio Shack Canada) has them on their web site and I saw them in my local store.

$45 CDN for an 8 pack of AAs: http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/SearchResults.aspx?language=en-CA&keywords=eneloop&pagenum=0

Greg


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## Perfectionist (Sep 28, 2006)

Where can I buy them in the UK ?


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## clipse (Sep 28, 2006)

Wow, thats pricey for a 2000mAh AA. I'll have to wait and see some reviews or opinions before I go for them. (and wait till they hit the states.  )


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## Bob_G (Sep 28, 2006)

RitzCamera has them in the states - $11.99 for 4.


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## WildChild (Sep 28, 2006)

greg_in_canada said:


> The Source (formerly Radio Shack Canada) has them on their web site and I saw them in my local store.
> 
> $45 CDN for an 8 pack of AAs: http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/SearchResults.aspx?language=en-CA&keywords=eneloop&pagenum=0
> 
> Greg



This price is crazy! A 4 pack is 12$ at Ritz Camera in USA... If only their shipping charges were not 16$ to Canada!  Can someone buy some there and send them to me at a cheaper rate?


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## bob_ninja (Sep 28, 2006)

Wow, cool. Just placed an order for 8.
Bit expensive but worth it if they perform as promised. I need backup AAs of last resort as my Energizers and older batteries are very unpredictable. The new Sanyos I have are much more consistent and last longer. Together with Eneloops I'll have a nice balanced mix for all uses.


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## Lucero (Sep 28, 2006)

...and $15 for 4-pack AA at Fry's and at Outpost dot com.


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## wasBlinded (Sep 28, 2006)

Just ordered 5 4-packs from Ritz. These will be good for my Mag85 and Mag74, which spend a few weeks on the shelf between uses. It seems there is always at least one high self-discharge cell in the Mag85 that forces me to recharge the pack before putting it to use .


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## Loomy (Sep 28, 2006)

Everything at radio shack / the source is a bad price. These will show up at Futureshop/BestBuy very quickly and the price will go down.


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## greg_in_canada (Sep 29, 2006)

Last weeks FutureShop flier advertised Panasonic R2 cells which appear to be another brand of low-self-discharge Nimh cells. Has anyone tried them?

Greg

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pr...ngid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10075516&catid=23288#


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## greg_in_canada (Sep 29, 2006)

Loomy said:


> Everything at radio shack / the source is a bad price. These will show up at Futureshop/BestBuy very quickly and the price will go down.


 
I like to think of The Source like Sears. Everything is high priced so they can have 50% off sales (and still make money).  

Greg


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## ciam (Sep 29, 2006)

WildChild said:


> This price is crazy! A 4 pack is 12$ at Ritz Camera in USA... If only their shipping charges were not 16$ to Canada!  Can someone buy some there and send them to me at a cheaper rate?


 
Maybe a group buy for those of us from Canada?


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## bob_ninja (Sep 29, 2006)

Looking around the stores here in Canada, there is not much of a choice. Even Sanyos and Sonys can be hard to find. I was surpised that they showed up already. It may be a long wait for them to show up elsewhere at a more reasonable price.


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## WildChild (Sep 29, 2006)

bob_ninja said:


> Looking around the stores here in Canada, there is not much of a choice. Even Sanyos and Sonys can be hard to find. I was surpised that they showed up already. It may be a long wait for them to show up elsewhere at a more reasonable price.



There are Sanyos at Costco here in Quebec City.


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## bob_ninja (Sep 29, 2006)

Indeed, Costco is the only place where I managed to find them. Like I said, hard to find


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## Lucero (Sep 29, 2006)

Hard to find in person? Or hard to find in general? Here they are online.


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## MrAl (Sep 29, 2006)

Hello there,

For those of you in Canada, i am wondering how much it would
cost to ship from USA to Canada for the weight of those cells ?
And what method, UPS or USPS ?


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## WildChild (Sep 29, 2006)

Probably it wouldn't be that much using USPS with the cheapest service!


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## flame2000 (Sep 30, 2006)

Hi,

Just to share with u guys. U can get it from this Singapore site too. Prices are in SGD. The shipping shld be quite reasonable.

http://www.onlineshop.com.sg/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=3_38&sort=20a&page=3


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## N162E (Oct 3, 2006)

Bob_G said:


> RitzCamera has them in the states - $11.99 for 4.


I just bought two packs of 4 at a local mall Ritz Camera. They had a lot of them and said they had them for a couple of months. I put all 8 of them on 2 BC-900 chargers at 700 ma. They took from 598-660 mah to charge all but two were under 631. They seem more "Normal" sized easily fitting into my camera and gps. They fit more like alkalines than the higher capacity NIMH 25-2700 mah nimhs. Over the next week I'll run some discharge cycles and them let them sit for awhile and see how they hold up in real life. If they can actually hold on to 2000 mah for a month or so they might actually come out ahead my experience with 25-2700 mah cells after a week or so.


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## wasBlinded (Oct 3, 2006)

I just got 5 4-packs from Ritz. On opening, most tested 60% with the ZTS tester, some were 80%.

On discharge testing, without first charging, they gave about 1400 mAh.

I'm running some of them through discharge/refresh with the LaCrosse charger and also the Duratrax ICE charger now.


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## N162E (Oct 3, 2006)

wasBlinded said:


> I just got 5 4-packs from Ritz. On opening, most tested 60% with the ZTS tester, some were 80%.
> 
> On discharge testing, without first charging, they gave about 1400 mAh.


This confirms my results. I would have expected more out of the package. I wonder if these early ones may have been around 5 or 6 months getting to us.


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## wattsoccurring (Oct 4, 2006)

Perfectionist said:


> Where can I buy them in the UK ?



Last I heard was that they are about to be released over here in October, aparently through a major retailer. Don't know who, though, as yet. 
Cheers.


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## Perfectionist (Oct 4, 2006)

Sweet !


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## glire (Oct 9, 2006)

It looks like Sanyo is already OEM'ing their eneloop. I found some Uniross named Hybrio whose features seem very similar.


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## LEDninja (Oct 9, 2006)

USPS, Canada Post and the airlines will NOT ship batteries. If batteries are ordered online, there is a chance they will be seised and destroyed in the mail system. The customs sticker is a dead giveaway in cross border shipping.

The only package I lost in the mail in the last 4 years is an order of batteries from Emillion.

KSBman used to name batteries as 'flashlight paets' when he was doing international forwarding.


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## Ledacholic Anonymous (Oct 9, 2006)

Hey guys, can you charge these batteries in a normal Nimh charger?


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## Walt175 (Oct 9, 2006)

I was in a Circut City on sat 10/7 and they had them in stock. IIRC they had 4 AA and charger, 2 AA and charger and 4 AAA without charger.


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## wasBlinded (Oct 9, 2006)

The Eneloops can be charged in the same chargers used for normal Nimh cells.

I've finished discharge/refresh cycling for 16 Eneloops so far. They have all come in above 2000 mAh according to the LaCrosse charger, ranging from 2020 to 2100 mAh at a 500 ma/hour discharge rate.


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## AdamThirnis (Oct 9, 2006)

glire said:


> It looks like Sanyo is already OEM'ing their eneloop. I found some Uniross named Hybrio whose features seem very similar.



Hybrio are made in China not Japan.


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## glire (Oct 9, 2006)

Does this mean they're not from Sanyo ?


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## ronwong (Oct 9, 2006)

Hi, This is Ronald from www.OnlineShop.com.sg, we have launched Sister company www.Online-Shop.hk and is now having promotion on Sanyo eneloops. 4 Piece pack AA or AAA goes for USD11.43 exclude shipping. No USD100 minimum order.

For 1 pack 4AA, shipping to North America or Europe is 3.95 nett.
For 1 pack 4AAA, shipping is USD2.18.
Half that of competing sites. Please compare.

Customers who have patronized us at Online Shop Singapore, you know the quality of our products and services. Welcome back! We ship global. Payment by Visa or Mastercard globally via Worldpay.


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## Short Circuit (Oct 10, 2006)

I found the AAA and AA Eneloops at Circuit City in Salinas, CA.


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## AdamThirnis (Oct 10, 2006)

glire said:


> Does this mean they're not from Sanyo ?



Uniross Hybrio are not made by Sanyo.


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## paulr (Oct 10, 2006)

Looks like they're available through Circuit City's web site too, though $14.99 per 4-pack (AA or AAA) is pretty steep. Ritz Camera has them for $11.99/4-pack but only AA size. I figure AAA will arrive sooner or later.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/Sear...yword=eneloop&searchSection=All&go.x=0&go.y=0


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## glire (Oct 11, 2006)

AdamThirnis said:


> Uniross Hybrio are not made by Sanyo.


I saw some regular Uniross 2500 stamped with a HR on the bottom.


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## flame2000 (Oct 11, 2006)

ronwong said:


> Hi, This is Ronald from www.OnlineShop.com.sg, we have launched Sister company www.Online-Shop.hk and is now having promotion on Sanyo eneloops. 4 Piece pack AA or AAA goes for USD11.43 exclude shipping. No USD100 minimum order.
> 
> For 1 pack 4AA, shipping to North America or Europe is 3.95 nett.
> For 1 pack 4AAA, shipping is USD2.18.
> ...


 
Hi Ronald,

It would be more appropriate if you could post your dealing in the "Dealer's Corner".  
You will probably get more responses over there.


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## Bullseye00 (Oct 12, 2006)

re: Eneloop at Circuit City - I couldn't find them on the shelf at my local Circuit City, so I asked, and one of the sales people found them in the back. So if you don't see them on the shelves, ask a sales person to look in their inventory for them.
But if there's a Ritz Camera nearby, go there unless you need AAA's, because Ritz caries AA's for $11.99.


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## dlrflyer (Oct 13, 2006)

Can anybody tell us the dimensions of the Eneloops? Hopefully not as thick as say..an Energizer 2500mah.


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## Ledacholic Anonymous (Oct 13, 2006)

For those in australia, i have found Tandy store stocks these batteries. They have 4AAA and 4AA for the same price of $24AU.


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## Steppy (Oct 13, 2006)

Not to throw water on the Eneloops... but.. Is it not wise to keep / store the rechargable at 100% charge for too long?

I've read you lose over-all capacity from any rechargable battery by doing so... I read it's best to store at 40% charge...

So how does the Sanyo / Eneloop's handle this? Do you lose Batt capacity the longer you don't use up all the stored energy in them?

Any thoughts?

Steppy


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## WildChild (Oct 13, 2006)

The 40% thing is for Li-ION. It is recommended to store NiMH charged at 100% because of self-discharge. But, with Eneloop, I don't know if this recommendation remains.


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## Steppy (Oct 13, 2006)

I found this...

~ After 4-5 months, the batteries had retained 93% of their nominal capacity and 88% of their true capacity.

http://www.robertphotoblog.com/2006/capacity-eneloop-batteries/

Steppy


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## Ledacholic Anonymous (Oct 13, 2006)

I am happy with the Eneloop so far. I purchased a set of 4 AAA tonight and put it into the torch. It light up very bright. I know this is not scientific but it truely can be used out of the pack.


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## Mr_Light (Oct 13, 2006)

Bullseye00 said:


> re: Eneloop at Circuit City - I couldn't find them on the shelf at my local Circuit City, so I asked, and one of the sales people found them in the back. So if you don't see them on the shelves, ask a sales person to look in their inventory for them.
> But if there's a Ritz Camera nearby, go there unless you need AAA's, because Ritz caries AA's for $11.99.


 
FYI, at RITZ you can use the $10 off $30 discount for using Google Checkout. Even with shipping I think this is the cheapest online deal.


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## Steppy (Oct 18, 2006)

I'm after a set (AA's) for my Ericsson MC218 ( Psion 5MX ).

Has anyone used them in their Psion yet? Any issues? Fit ok?

I'm at two minds... Go for Eneloop's or Sanyo 2700mAh's?

I'm thinking the Eneloop's would be a better bet because of the lower self-discharge.. or would Sanyo 2700's out perform the eneloop on raw power.. 2000mAh v 2700mAh.

I'm a light user of the MC218... about 1-2 hours per day.

It still surprises me today that you can run the MC218 (5MX) on 2 AA's!

Cheers,

Steppy


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## Loomy (Oct 18, 2006)

Low self discharge 2000ma vs high self discharge 2700ma. It is simply a question of whether or not you need your cells to not self discharge. Anyone using a system that discharges a 2700ma battery before the self discharge becomes an issue already knows they are better off with the 2700ma battery.

Personally it is a no brainer: low self discharge cells for remote controls, digital cameras, and anything else that doesn't get fully drained in a week. So in my case, everything would be better off with eneloops, since I don't use anything that needs that extra 700ma in the short term.


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## ps56k (Nov 18, 2006)

yeah - if you know you need the power for an upcoming event - charge the camera batteries - vs all the rest of the sitting on the shelf applications, like flashlights, GPS, remote control, etc - you need them at random times... later than now or 1 week.
It seems that the 2000mah eneloop would be the better choice vs the higher capacity standard 2500mah battery that might actually have less capacity left than the initial lower capacity eneloop.... guess like the tortise vs hare.


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## Mr_Light (Nov 22, 2006)

Note - you can now take $20 off $50 with Google checkout. I just ordered 5 4-paks of AA Eneloops from Ritz for $46 delivered.


Mr_Light said:


> FYI, at RITZ you can use the $10 off $30 discount for using Google Checkout. Even with shipping I think this is the cheapest online deal.


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## coppertrail (Nov 22, 2006)

Wow, that is a good deal, $39.97 for (5) 4 packs before shipping . . .


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## EngrPaul (Nov 22, 2006)

Amazon

$12.99 AAA [800mAh]
$14.99 AA [2000mAh]

Free shipping on orders over $25


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## SilverFox (Nov 22, 2006)

I am surprised that the price hasn't dropped more. When I did the group buy in February, they were going for $3.90 a cell, including shipping. I was expecting the price to drop about $1 per cell, but it seems that it is lingering at higher levels.

Interesting...

Tom


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## Mr_Light (Nov 22, 2006)

Just order 20 from RITZ for $2.30 each including shipping.....


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## gdhumphreys (Nov 22, 2006)

I ordered 4 AA 4-packs from Ritz a few weeks back, and I paid closer to $3 per battery--so maybe the prices are starting to come down a little.

I ran some tests on these batteries with a CBAII. I discharged 4 batteries 3 different times (so 12 discharges total) at 1C, and I thought these batteries performed well. Capacaties were between about 1750 and 1900 mAh at 1C, and they stayed at 1.2 volts or above for most of the discharge cycle.

About two weeks ago is when I ran the last test, and I'm going to test the batteries at one month, 6 months, and one year to see how well they retain their charge. As I said earlier, I have at least three tests of each fully charged battery, so I should have a good baseline for how well they hold a charge.


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## Mr_Light (Nov 22, 2006)

This price assumes you take $20 off $50 with Google checkout.


Mr_Light said:


> Just order 20 from RITZ for $2.30 each including shipping.....


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## SilverFox (Nov 22, 2006)

Hello Gdhumphreys,

It will be interesting to see how your tests come out. 

I have been running some tests at a 0.5 amp discharge rate and have observed that after 30 days they had about 93% of their initial capacity, and after 90 days they had about 88% of their initial capacity. The 6 month results won't be available until the end of January. I am going to stop there and project to 1 year. 

Tom


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## EngrPaul (Nov 22, 2006)

I bought 20 AA's from Ritz and 8 AAA's from Amazon.

Just a day or so ago I ordered the 8-bay MH-C800S charger, which promises to be compatible with the EneLoop batteries. Woot!

Thanks for the posts!


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## gdhumphreys (Nov 22, 2006)

Hi Tom,

88% after 90 days is something I can be happy with. You will reach your 6 month mark well before I do, so I'm interested in how your tests turn out.

By the way, those 2700 mAh Powerex batteries we discussed in another thread (can't remember which thread) are now giving 2400 mAh at a 1C discharge to 0.9 volts. I want to do a 3-day, 30-day and 90-day test with those to get an idea of what their self-discharge rate is.

Greg


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## EngrPaul (Nov 22, 2006)

gdhumphreys said:


> I want to do a 3-day, 30-day and 90-day test with those to get an idea of what their self-discharge rate is.


 
Greg,

Thanks for doing this self-discharge rate test. Is there published data for typical self-discharge rates of NiMH batteries?


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## gdhumphreys (Nov 23, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> Greg,
> 
> Thanks for doing this self-discharge rate test. Is there published data for typical self-discharge rates of NiMH batteries?


 
I read somewhere (but now cannot remember where) that the self-discharge rate of NiMH batteries was somewhere between 5-10% the first day and then 0.5-1% per day after that at room temperature. I wrote down those numbers but didn't write down where I read it, so of course, I cannot confirm how valid those numbers are.

I will post the results of the Powerex 2700s when I am finished with the tests.

Greg


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## EngrPaul (Nov 23, 2006)

I saw those same numbers on Wikipedia. 

I also read 40% per month somewhere else. Also 1/64 per day.

On Thomas-Distributing's site they say on the Sanyo 2700 industrial page 

_The Sanyo Rechargeable Battery uses a new structural negative electrode material "Superlattice Alloy" which enables Ni-MH rechargeable batteries to have higher capacity and higher performance._

I've read on Wikipedia that the same technology is what's used to decrease the self-discharge rate.

Now I don't understand why the Eneloop batteries have only 2000 mAh, while the standard NiMH battery has 2700 mAh (and has been measured to be higher)... considering the fact they are blessed with the same technology. What's going on here?

Do you have some Sanyo 2700 batteries to compare against the Powerex 2700? This would be VERY interesting!

Thanks,

Paul


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## gdhumphreys (Nov 23, 2006)

Paul,

I checked out the wikipedia site, and you're right, that is where I read it.

Also, I purchased 4 of the Sanyo 2700s at the same time I purchased the Powerex 2700s, and I'll run the same tests on the Sanyo's as I have on the Powerex batteries. It will be interesting to see how they compare. I am especially interested in seeing how the self-discharge rate of the Sanyo 2700s compare with the Powerex and the eneloop batteries.

Greg


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## FsTop (Nov 23, 2006)

And here they are for US$9.99 for four AA, and $7.99 for four AAA, shipping included.
http://www.hhgregg.com/productlisting.asp?&CategoryName=Batteries&CategoryID=140


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## BentHeadTX (Nov 23, 2006)

I ran a self-discharge test on a Cadex battery analyzer on two batteries, a Sanyo 2500 (HR stamp) and Powerex 2700. The 2500 had a 24 hour self-discharge rate of 12% (!) with the Powerex 2700 returning 6% in one day. 

The 2700's are much better but I am going with Eneloops for family use. I hope that Thomas Distributing gets some Eneloops in when the Maha C9000 battery analyzer ships, get the solution in one package.


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## paulr (Nov 23, 2006)

40% a month is excessive, it's more like 15% a month for non-defective HR-3U's, once they're past that initial drop on the first day.


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## EngrPaul (Nov 23, 2006)

FsTop said:


> And here they are for US$9.99 for four AA, and $7.99 for four AAA, shipping included.
> http://www.hhgregg.com/productlisting.asp?&CategoryName=Batteries&CategoryID=140


 
NICE FIND! That blows Amazon out of the water. :rock:


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## bp044 (Nov 23, 2006)

What is best method to charge brand new eneloops ? ok to use right out of package till discharged or forming charge first ? Which smart charger best (I prefer slow chage to enhance life ) Appreciate advice


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## EngrPaul (Nov 23, 2006)

I plan on using mine out of the package and charge them after I use a % of the capacity.

I chose the MH-C800S charger, which promises to be compatible with eneloops, has eight independent charging bays, and has a medium (standard) and soft (when chosen) charging rate. 

If you want to look at more details for this charger, look at the MH-C801D page. There you can download the owner's manual, which isn't on the 800S page. Everything is the same, but this charger runs a higher charge current and is more expensive (two things you probably won't like).


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## Loomy (Nov 23, 2006)

Eneloops are nimh. There has never been any evidence to suggest that normal nimh chargers aren't appropriate.


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## flash99dark (Nov 23, 2006)

Thanks for the HHGreg link. I just ordered 1 four pack of AAA & THE AA with
charger for less than $28........William


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## bp044 (Nov 23, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> I plan on using mine out of the package and charge them after I use a % of the capacity.
> 
> I chose the MH-C800S charger, which promises to be compatible with eneloops, has eight independent charging bays, and has a medium (standard) and soft (when chosen) charging rate.
> 
> If you want to look at more details for this charger, look at the MH-C801D page. There you can download the owner's manual, which isn't on the 800S page. Everything is the same, but this charger runs a higher charge current and is more expensive (two things you probably won't like).


 EngrPaul: thanks for quick reply.any opinion about ma C-9000 for few dollars more to charge eneloops ?


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## EngrPaul (Nov 24, 2006)

I chose the charger because it's 8-bay. I may buy the newer one sooner or later, but I'll wait until it's been out a few months and hear lots of good things.


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## redbird (Nov 24, 2006)

Add my thanks for th HHGreg link. I bought 8 and saved the link. If they checkout as everyone here says they may replace my Sanyo2700s in my worklights.


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## abvidledUK (Nov 24, 2006)

They're selling the eneloops in my local UK Comet.

Very large display, 4ft high.

Unpriced, and no-one around !!


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## altis (Nov 24, 2006)

Good news!


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## BrightGal (Nov 24, 2006)

I'm using lithiums in my L0P SE and I use my light a lot so I go through these expensive batteries quickly. Would the Eneloop AAAs work as well as the lithium batteries I now use in my L0P SE? Thanks.


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## BentHeadTX (Nov 24, 2006)

Brightgal,
Lithium AAA batteries are around 1.6V and 1300mAH and Eneloops are 1.2V and 800mAH. The lithium AAA batteries will run your light a little brighter and last longer in use. They are also lighter than Eneloops. 

However, the Eneloops cost the same as lithium AAA batteries and if you use them, recharge them once and use them again... you just saved money. Those additional hundreds of charges are just icing on the cake.  

I find using rechargables in my AAA lights (Peak Baltic stainless) to be the better idea in lights I use all the time. Always nice to know I can have a fresh battery VS attempting to figure out how much is left in the pricey lithium cells. They don't last as long as lithiums but I always have a fresh one in a battery holder so it is not an issue. 

That being said, I do use lithium AAA batteries in flashlights. My aluminum Baltic AAA is an emergency/lanyard/camping light and with a fresh cell I get 5 hours of regulated runtime. Normally, the light sits in a box waiting to be used and lithiums have a 10-year shelf life. I also use lithium AAA batteries in rear red LED bike flashers to keep the brightness high and for them to resist cold weather better.


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## EngrPaul (Nov 29, 2006)

My Eneloops arrived from HHGREGG today UPS, and I had to sign for them.

3 packs of AAA in a huge (12x13x8) and a lifetime's supply of foam peanuts. It was like bobbing for apples! 

When I fished them all out, I found I actually got 2 AAA packs (dated 2006-08) and 1 AA pack (dated 2006-7). No biggie, I use AA's more anyway.

About the same time I ordered more 4-packs from Amazon and Ritz, but they haven't arrived yet.

As for flashlight usage, I put the NiMH rechargeables in the device, and place some Lithium primaries nearby. This way I use the flashlight "guilt-free" and always have fresh long-lasting batteries on hand for emergencies should the NiMH last long enough.


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## Argent60 (Nov 29, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> My Eneloops arrived from HHGREGG today UPS, and I had to sign for them.
> 
> 3 packs of AAA in a huge (12x13x8) and a lifetime's supply of foam peanuts. It was like bobbing for apples!
> 
> When I fished them all out, I found I actually got 2 AAA packs (dated 2006-08) and 1 AA pack (dated 2006-7). No biggie, I use AA's more anyway.





I got my sets of Eneloops today too. And, like you, they screwed up my order also. I order three(3) 4-packs of AA's. They sent me 1 pack of AA's. and 2 packs of AAA's. :thumbsdow 
HHGregg's delivery time was excellent, to bad they have no quality control in their packing department. I hope this isn't a trend for others who've ordered there. Oh well, at least they're trying to fix the situation.

Argent60


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## BrightGal (Nov 29, 2006)

BentheadTX, thank you for your post. I have only had my L0P SE for less than a month and I am already on my 4th lithium battery. At $2 a battery, this is going to get expensive. 

I did some more reading about rechargable nickel metal hydride batteries and since I use my L0P SE daily, I think I can make better use of normal, high capacity rechargable AAAs than the Eneloops. It seems to me the value of the Eneloops is associated with low self discharge rate. My problem is my own high use rate. I can't see where the Eneloops would be a smart option for me to use in my L0P SE.

Thanks again for your post Benthead. It got me pointed in the right direction to learn more and not buy the wrong type of battery for my use.

BG


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## EngrPaul (Nov 29, 2006)

Brightgal, 

Try the Sanyo 1000 industrial AAA. They carry the same label as the 2700 AA Industrial, which tested very well in the rechargeable shoot-out here at CPF. I got mine at thomas-distributing.


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## altis (Nov 30, 2006)

I couldn't find any Eneloops in our local Comet but it looks like they're comming to Jessops very soon. While CPF was down, I received the following email from Sanyo in Germany:


> Thank you for your Email and interest in our new, revolutionary product, the eneloop.
> 
> The eneloop is scheduled to start, for December exclusively, next week throuth the Jessops chain of stores.
> 
> ...


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## abvidledUK (Nov 30, 2006)

abvidledUK said:


> They're selling the eneloops in my local UK Comet.
> 
> Very large display, 4ft high.
> 
> Unpriced, and no-one around !!



They appear to be £9.99 per pack, AA and AAA's


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## cloud (Nov 30, 2006)

abvidledUK said:


> They appear to be £9.99 per pack, AA and AAA's


 
thanks I'll go an take a look round at my local comet


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## EngrPaul (Nov 30, 2006)

My Ritz camera 5x 4xAA's just arrived with a 2006-07 manufacturing date. Yes, they were all AA's


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## jashhash (Dec 1, 2006)

Am I missing something? I've read about these batteries but I don't see how these improvements make them vastly supurior to any other Ni-Mh. For the price you pay for these you could just buy lithium Ions (i know theres a voltage difference).


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## coppertrail (Dec 1, 2006)

How are they different:

1. Very low self-discharge rate
2. No Memory effect

It depends on how you use your camera. If you use it for a few shots only on the weekends, then the eneloops would be the best choice. I replaced the 2700 mAh AA cells that I use in my digicam with eneloops because I can take a few pics, put the camera on the shelf for 2 weeks, pick it back up, and it will have plenty of power withoug having to charge or "top off". The only disadvantage that I see is the lower capacity, 2000 mAh, but i have a backup set of eneloops in my camera case.


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## n3eg (Dec 1, 2006)

coppertrail said:


> How are they different:
> 1. Very low self-discharge rate
> 2. No Memory effect


 
3. Higher current discharge rates at rated output voltage.

I bought them for my digital camera, and I finally got rid of the perpetual half-discharged indicator I've had with regular NiMH cells.


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## EngrPaul (Dec 1, 2006)

I'm not really sure I need to buy Alkaline AA/AAA's anymore...


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## coppertrail (Dec 1, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> My Ritz camera 5x 4xAA's just arrived with a 2006-07 manufacturing date. Yes, they were all AA's


 I also took advantage of the Google Checkout deal @ Ritz. Hopefully they'll be here soon . . .


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## Brangdon (Dec 2, 2006)

Perfectionist said:


> Where can I buy them in the UK ?


I've bought them online from http://www.gadgetbatteries.co.uk/. 2 AAs were all they had in stock at the time. Not especially cheap but I can't always get to a real shop.

I've put them in my GPS. I've trying to resist the temptation to buy loads of them and stockpile against emergencies.


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## paulr (Dec 6, 2006)

Argent60 if you want to sell me a pack of those AAA's I'd be up for it. I prefer not to deal with a 1 cubic foot box from rhgregg and uncertainty over what will be in it, even if the shipping is free .

I bought three 4-packs of AA's at the brick and mortar Ritz near here, $11.99+tax each, I think I mentioned. They had more in stock at that time. I haven't checked back in the last few weeks though. But I'm seeing them in other places too lately, like Circuit city, but at $14.99/pack there .


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## Mr_Light (Dec 6, 2006)

Got my 5 packs of AAs from RITZ (Google checkout) and my 2 packs of AAA HGREGG, no problems with either.


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## EngrPaul (Dec 6, 2006)

Ordered more from HHGREGG on Sunday, got 'em Wednesday. Another big box of peanuts. They got the combination of AA and AAA right this time!


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## Argent60 (Dec 6, 2006)

paulr said:


> Argent60 if you want to sell me a pack of those AAA's I'd be up for it. I prefer not to deal with a 1 cubic foot box from rhgregg and uncertainty over what will be in it, even if the shipping is free .
> 
> I bought three 4-packs of AA's at the brick and mortar Ritz near here, $11.99+tax each, I think I mentioned. They had more in stock at that time. I haven't checked back in the last few weeks though. But I'm seeing them in other places too lately, like Circuit city, but at $14.99/pack there .




Sorry dude, too late. I sent them back, and thankfully they've already sent me the correct batteries this time. (They did provide good customer service and paid for the return shipment.)
Good luck finding yours.

Argent60


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## sandbasser (Dec 7, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> Ordered more from HHGREGG on Sunday, got 'em Wednesday. Another big box of peanuts. They got the combination of AA and AAA right this time!



I ordered 2 4-packs of AAs from HHGREGG last Thursday (11/30); received yesterday (12/6). $9.99 per pack - WITH FREE SHIPPING. :rock: :goodjob:

Extremely satisfied. I too am adding to my stock of peanuts.


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## rickd (Dec 7, 2006)

The Source website has a sale on Eneloops 8 packs for $29.95 until christmas. I've order a pack and got them a few days later. No shipping charges!

Sale ends December 24th!


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## summerwind (Dec 8, 2006)

those of you that are now using these batteries, are they exceeding your expectations?
i've been using Powerex 2500's for my lights and camera flashes, so i'd really like to hear the Pro's and Con's if you have the time.............thx
-michael


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## Curious_character (Dec 8, 2006)

I got three packs of 4 AAA and one pack of 4 AA at Fry's a couple of days ago, and did some testing on them. Several things about them were interesting.

First, I discharged the cells 4 at a time to 4.0 volts. The AAAs were discharged at 200 mA, the AAs at 500 mA. This would be C/4 for both kinds.

The first interesting thing was that the discharge times of the three packs of AAAs were within one minute of each other! The capacity of all three groups measured 537 mAh, or 67% of the nominal 800 mAh capacity. The AA cells were very similar, measuring 1408 mAh, or 70% of the nominal 2000 mAh capacity.

Then I recharged all the cells. I used a standard NiMH Duracell charger, which is about the best I have in terms of charging the cells completely. After the recharge, the AAA cells measured 777 mAh, or 97% of nominal and above the specified minimum of 750. The AAs measured 1950 mAh, or 98% of nominal. The second interesting thing is that the capacity is so close to the specified nominal -- I don't believe I've ever seen a cell come this close to its specified capacity, and I've tested a very large number. So these cells are realistically if not conservatively rated, which is very unusual. (It'll be interesting to see if this changes once they get some competition.)

The third interesting thing is that they reached this capacity after the first recharge. Nearly all other NiMH cells I've tested start out at around 75% of capacity, and it takes around 5 - 10 full discharge-charge cycles before the capacity comes up to maximum. It's possible these cells will increase even more with a few cycles, but I doubt that the increase will be much.

The packages were stamped "2006-05" which I assume means a manufacture or perhaps charge date of May 2006. If so, and if they were fully charged at that time, then they lost around 30% of their capacity in about 7 months. The manufacturer claims 85% retention after 1 year at 20 degrees C, so it's possible they underwent some really hot storage temperatures. But it does look like they're a whole lot better than ordinary NiMH cells. I found it really interesting that the self discharge rates of the individual cells are apparently identical -- otherwise they wouldn't have ended up with virtually identical capacity when I initially tested them.

Finally, I did a run time test. About the most demanding light I have is a flea market 21 LED light that runs off of 3 AAAs and is unregulated. It starts out with a big bunch of current, then the current drops a lot as the voltage slightly decreases. Even so, it takes down 900 mAh Energizer cells in less than an hour. I was looking for the ability of these cells to provide the very heavy initial current without excessive drop and furnish heavy current for the remainder of the run. They did fine. Light output was the same as with the 900 mAh Energizers. Run time was about 86% as long, which is about consistent with the difference in capacity. (The two run times can't be expected to be in exactly the same ratio as the capacities because of the very nonlinear I-V characteristics of the unregulated light.)

So my conclusion is that they behave like normal NiMH cells with the exception of lower self discharge rate. Apparently the only trade they had to make was some capacity -- internal resistance and high current capability are normal for a NiMH cell. They charge fine with a standard NiMH charger.

The big selling point for these cells seems to be that they're "ready to use". So it occurs to me that the manufacturer must give the retailers a pull date like they have for food products, requiring them to pull them off the shelves if they haven't sold by some specified time after the manufacturing or charge date stamped on the package. Otherwise they'd risk selling batteries with unacceptably low capacity when first used. If I'm right, then we might start seeing periodic bargain sales of cells which are getting close to the pull date. 

Anybody interested in doing some self discharge tests should consider that many chemical reactions as well as semiconductor leakage currents approximately double with every 10 degree C increase in temperature. This rule is commonly used as the basis for accelerated reliability and lifetime testing. For example, the deterioration of components is assumed to be 8 times faster at 50 degrees C than at 20. So you could probably do some decent self discharge testing if you had an oven you could keep at an elevated temperature.

c_c


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## RobSpook (Dec 8, 2006)

Great oberservations CC! I just received my 8 AAA and 20 AA Eneloops today. Mine were stamped 2006-7 on the AA 4 packs and 2006-8 on the AAA 4 packs. Purchased from HHGREG on November 24th. It took so long because they had to be shipped to my parents before coming USPS to me at my APO.


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## summerwind (Dec 8, 2006)

thank you CC.............makes my purchase a lot easier.


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## ahsta (Dec 10, 2006)

Does anyone have the 4-position eneloop charger? 

I'm wondering if each of the 4 slots are independent. The charger I use now charges in banks of 2, so I'm looking to pick up one that charges an odd number of cells too.

Thanks.


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## bwaites (Dec 10, 2006)

USPS has no problem shipping "NON LIQUID" cells like NiMH.

js and I have shipped HUNDREDS of cells at a time by Priority Mail with nary a problem. I have also shipped cells to Singapore, Australia, Canada, the UK, Hong Kong, Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Denmark and to a couple South American countries with no problems.

I have received cells from Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, and Taiwan with no problems.

Bill


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## Bullseye00 (Dec 14, 2006)

ahsta, the Eneloop 4 position charger on Sanyo's Eneloop site doesn't look like the one in the link that you posted. On Sanyo's Eneloop page you can clearly see 4 slots but only indicator 2 LED's. So it looks like that one only charges in banks of 2. 

http://www.eneloop.info/208.html


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## VidPro (Dec 14, 2006)

hey just chiming in, my real actual enloop batteries DID indeedey have a low self-discharge.  ok call me a skeptic, but i got them for all the times when i forget to charge, and basically (as usual) forgot about them. then i needed them, and they worked.

real scientific huh 
anyways i am impressed, i think it was worth it for sure.

they had about 80% of thier juice when similar ni-mhys would have been unusable, saved me from having to use primaries, or being without.


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## altis (Dec 15, 2006)

They've finally turned up on the Jessops website:

http://www.jessops.com/Products/SearchResults.aspx?searchword=eneloop

...at £12.99 a pack!


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## bob_ninja (Dec 15, 2006)

I got 8 AAs abouth 3 months ago. Charged them then and left them to sit idle.
The other day I put them into a motor that pulls 9A at first, then settled to 7A. Batteries didn't break a sweat. They seem to be very robust. I am impressed.


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## PANZERWOLF (Dec 17, 2006)

Curious_character said:


> The packages were stamped "2006-05" which I assume means a manufacture or perhaps charge date of May 2006. If so, and if they were fully charged at that time, then they lost around 30% of their capacity in about 7 months.


the place where i buy (accushop.at - site is in german) says that they are only 75% preloaded at the factory (i guess for longer storage/life reasons) so even that seems pretty consistent
damn, i have to get them! now!


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## Al (Dec 17, 2006)

Perhaps this is the wrong thread, but I'm anxious for someone to to a "professional" test of the Eneloops vs. other marketed low self-discharge brands.


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## Al (Dec 17, 2006)

Now also available at http://www.thomasdistributing.com/
Gleaned this from FAQs:

What are some of the Brands currently available?
There are the Sanyo Eneloop, Nexcell EnergyOn, Accupower Acculoop, and the Uniross Hybrio. At the present time we currently have the Sanyo Eneloop in stock , but the Energy ON , Acculoop, and the Uniross Hybrio will be arriving within 1 to 2 Weeks.


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## wptski (Dec 17, 2006)

Al said:


> Now also available at http://www.thomasdistributing.com/
> Gleaned this from FAQs:
> 
> What are some of the Brands currently available?
> There are the Sanyo Eneloop, Nexcell EnergyOn, Accupower Acculoop, and the Uniross Hybrio. At the present time we currently have the Sanyo Eneloop in stock , but the Energy ON , Acculoop, and the Uniross Hybrio will be arriving within 1 to 2 Weeks.


Al:

Aren't those just labels? How many different manufacturers are there really??


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## Al (Dec 17, 2006)

wptski said:


> Al:
> 
> Aren't those just labels? How many different manufacturers are there really??



Beats me ... all I'm doing is sharing the info. from the site


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## altis (Jan 2, 2007)

They're also available now from www.cpc.co.uk in Preston, UK.

Search for:
BT03643 - 4pk AA @ £5.49
BT03644 - 4pk AAA @ £5.49
BT03645 - EN15 360mA charger (inc 4xAA) @ £9.75
BT03646 - EN17 350mA travel charger (inc 4xAA) @ £12.95
BT03647 - EN60 700mA charger (inc 4xAA) @ £15.95

All prices exclude delivery (free if order over £40) and VAT.


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## LRE (Jan 8, 2007)

Hi guys!
I have been a reader for a while... Thanks for all fine info and contributions! 

Who will be the first to present C and D-cells of LSD type?
Sanyo Eneloop, Nexcell EnergyOn, Accupower Acculoop, and the Uniross Hybrio?

Thanks!
Lars


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## LittleBrownStain (Jan 16, 2007)

It doesn't seem likely we're going to see _any_ C or D cell Eneloops anytime soon. 

As you may know, C and D size *adaptors* are sometimes available - they're hard to come by though - an AA cell fits inside a plastic housing which beefs-up the physical size to C or D. As far as already-made C or D NiMH cells are concerned (such as those made by RayOVac, etc.) are pretty-much empty space -- a little bit of electrolyte sitting at the bottom of the battery and a whole lot of nothing at the top. Radio Shack started that years ago with their C and D NiCads.

In other words, there are no ultra-high capacity NiMHs that I know of. (They would become unacceptably hot in most people's chargers).

On the Eneloop website, they claim that the C and D-size plastic adaptors will become available "soon". I hope so. And I hope that they will be of a decent, high-quality construction in keeping with the high-level Eneloop personna -- the only adaptors I've seen here in Canada were at the Canadian Tire store, and they were of _dismal_ quality. (Cheeep). Made in China, and I don't remember their brand name.

Eneloop batteries *seem* to be very high in quality at their introduction (I don't have any yet), a notch or two UP from, say, the new and similar 'Hybrid' offering from RayOVac - specifically, their stated shelf-life, once charged, is much higher than RayOVacs. 

And really, *who cares* all that much if an Eneloop is fully charged when you get it? Sure, it's a convenience, but the only thing at all that really matters is how well they perform after YOU give 'em a charge, right?

(Right now I'm using RayOVacs IC-3 15-min cells). No shelf-life to speak of, but damned convenient.


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## MSHasegawa (Jan 17, 2007)

LittleBrownStain said:


> On the Eneloop website, they claim that the C and D-size plastic adaptors will become available "soon". I hope so. And I hope that they will be of a decent, high-quality construction in keeping with the high-level Eneloop personna --


 
I have the Eneloop D-cell adapters and use them in my Mag 4D. They're well made... AAs fit snug inside and the adapters fit smoothly into my Mag. They're white though...

Michael


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## LittleBrownStain (Jan 17, 2007)

MSHasegawa said:


> I have the Eneloop D-cell adapters and use them in my Mag 4D. They're well made... AAs fit snug inside and the adapters fit smoothly into my Mag. They're white though...
> 
> Michael



*Thank You *for that info, Mike! 

Really, these adaptors are as scarce as hen's teeth in my area. At least decent ones - I wouldn't trust the thin, plastic, flimsy ones I saw at the Canadian Tire store. (They rattled when I shook 'em). Plus you had to buy a pre-packaged 'Kit' - they came with so-many 'C' adaptors, and so-many 'D' adaptors - you couldn't just buy the 'D' ones for instance.

I am SO glad to learn that Sanyo has followed through on their promise! Do you mind if I ask where you picked up your 'D' adaptors?

From what I can gather, Eneloops - and hopefully the adaptors - are only available here in Canada at the 'Source' stores. ('The Source' has completely replaced Radio Shack - we now have no more Radio Shack). 

The adaptors would be perfect for _any _NiMH AA cell, like my IC-3 Rayovacs, for example.

Thanks for the update!


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## MSHasegawa (Jan 18, 2007)

LittleBrownStain said:


> *Thank You *for that info, Mike!
> 
> Do you mind if I ask where you picked up your 'D' adaptors?


 
No problem, LittleBrownStain.

I live in Tokyo most of the time now and there's a city in Tokyo called Akihabara. If you're an electronics geek/nerd (no offense intended with the expression, BTW), you've heard of this place. It is the Mecca for tech in Japan.

A small electronics gadget store in Akihabara had them. A little expensive? at 1,800 yen (incl. tax; about 16USD) per Dx2 pack. I haven't seen them in larger establishments, though.

Michael


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## LittleBrownStain (Jan 18, 2007)

*>>> ...there's a city in Tokyo called Akihabara...

*Good Heavens !!! That pretty-much means the rest of us are more or less out-of-luck! I believe you, though, when you suggest that one can probably find quality, high-tech devices in Akihabara we're unlikely to see anywhere else.

But there's just no way 99% of us will be able or willing to visit the shop where you got your D adaptors. We'll just have to be patient I guess.

I'm confused by your stated price though. 900 yen (US-$9.00) for a single D _adaptor_ (??) At $9 each, I would expect an Eneloop AA cell to be included. Are these adaptors *made *by Sanyo?

Alternatively, Sanyo could simply introduce their own C and D-size Eneloops. Not to mention 9-V batteries, too.

BTW, I just _have to _get one of those 4-cell Mag lights! (I've been researching them).


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## MSHasegawa (Jan 18, 2007)

LittleBrownStain said:


> I'm confused by your stated price though. 900 yen (US-$9.00) for a single D _adaptor_ (??) At $9 each, I would expect an Eneloop AA cell to be included. Are these adaptors *made *by Sanyo?
> 
> BTW, I just _have to _get one of those 4-cell Mag lights! (I've been researching them).


 
They're Sanyo products. I don't know what suggested retail is supposed to be overseas but that's the price in Japan. Things are expensive here. No eneloop batteries included...

As for 4D Mag, I bought it about 20 years ago. Recently upgraded to Mag 3W LED. I bought it to leave just inside the front door; they make excellent impact weapons (warning: don't try this at home; YMMV ).

I've been very happy with the performance of the AA eneloops. Total capacity is not that high but energy retention over time is just excellent. Perfect for a light that usually just sits there until needed...


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## wptski (Jan 19, 2007)

I just received twelve LSD AA's from Amondo Tech. They had a partial charge when checked on a ZTS. I threw them in a C9000 and then thought, I didn't do a forming charge like I normally would do! I pulled them from the charger and installed them in two cordless phones that I rotate cells about every five days. A set of just charged cells will show a FULL battery icon for a short time, 2/3 in a few hours and then 1/3 from then on!

I didn't notice how long it showed a FULL battery icon but two days later, it's still showing 2/3 full! No doubt that these cells hold a charge longer!


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## LittleBrownStain (Jan 19, 2007)

MSHasegawa said:


> They're Sanyo products. I don't know what suggested retail is supposed to be overseas but that's the price in Japan. Things are expensive here. No eneloop batteries included...



Wow - that *is *pricey. I can order a 4-pak of AA Eneloops for $12 US + shipping from 'Thomas Distributing'. But I'm glad that it is _Sanyo _who is making the adaptors.



> As for 4D Mag, I bought it about 20 years ago. Recently upgraded to Mag 3W LED...



Yep, that's the one I was looking at. ($33 US mail order + shipping, which is cheaper than just the included EverLED bulb _alone _($40 + shipping) from www.LEDSupply.com. )



> I've been very happy with the performance of the AA eneloops. Total capacity is not that high but energy retention over time is just excellent. Perfect for a light that usually just sits there until needed...



That's my main concern too. Here in Nova Scotia we are quite prone to occassional blackouts - have had two already this winter. I wouldn't mind at all charging up four eneloops, say, every 6 months, and for that purpose my RayOVac IC-3 cells are useless.


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## daberti (Jan 19, 2007)

Al said:


> Perhaps this is the wrong thread, but I'm anxious for someone to to a "professional" test of the Eneloops vs. other marketed low self-discharge brands.



Maybe here ?


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## LittleBrownStain (Jan 19, 2007)

wptski said:


> I just received twelve LSD AA's from Amondo Tech. They had a partial charge when checked on a ZTS. ....



What an _*incredibly wonderful* _device that *ZTS *tester is, eh Bill?

I cannot live without it much longer. I will be ordering the ZTS Mini MBT tester shortly. (It takes a crummy 10 days to transfer funds from Canada to my PayPal account), but once done, I will be ordering it from 'Thomas Distributing'. ($27.87 US + shipping, and worth every cent).

http://www.nimhbattery.com/zts-mini-mbt-battery-tester.htm

-- Mike --


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## LittleBrownStain (Jan 19, 2007)

daberti said:


> Maybe here ?



Thanks for the link, *daberti !!!* EXCELLENT reporting!I have printed out your findings for future examination. (Hell, I printed out the whole thread) 

I see you're online now and testing _even as we speak!

_Much appreciated.


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## coppertrail (Jan 19, 2007)

I received the new MBT-1 Wed. afternoon. I'm going test a bunch of my cells over the weekend.


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## daberti (Jan 19, 2007)

LittleBrownStain said:


> Thanks for the link, *daberti !!!* EXCELLENT reporting!I have printed out your findings for future examination. (Hell, I printed out the whole thread)
> 
> I see you're online now and testing _even as we speak!_
> 
> Much appreciated.


 
You bet!
And the test goes on: just started the 1A charge/2A discharge torture test 
Thanks for your words of appreciation


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## LittleBrownStain (Jan 19, 2007)

coppertrail said:


> I received the new MBT-1 Wed. afternoon. I'm going test a bunch of my cells over the weekend.



Well, at more than twice the price ($75+shipping for 30 different battery types) of the Mini MBT ($28+shipping for 15 different battery types), the MBT-1 would be overkill for me. I will probably never have in my possession that many diversified types of batteries.

Still, for those 15 battery types, it's exactly the same circuitry and the LED readout is identical.

Terrific devices these ZTS testers!

-- Mike --

PS: I see Dan (daberti) is still online and hard at it!


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## coppertrail (Jan 19, 2007)

LittleBrownStain said:


> Well, at more than twice the price ($75+shipping for 30 different battery types) of the Mini MBT ($28+shipping for 15 different battery types), the MBT-1 would be overkill for me. I will probably never have in my possession that many diversified types of batteries.
> 
> Still, for those 15 battery types, it's exactly the same circuitry and the LED readout is identical.
> 
> ...


The Mini is a nice tester. I was drawn to the new MBT-1 because of the Lithium AA and RCR123A 3.6V testing capabilities. It may be overkill, maybe I'm just a gadget head  . The MBT-1 is much bigger than the Mini. I will use the mini as my EDC tester 

BTW, TD is selling the new MBT-1 for the same price as the old model + the free pouch ($57.xx, at least they were last week).


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## TheSteve (Feb 16, 2007)

Yes! I just picked up five 8 packs of Eneloop AA's at a local theSource that was closing. The listed price was 45.99 but register price was 29.99, because the store is closing everything is 50% off. That means 15 bucks Canadian Dollars per pack!(somewhere around 12.50 USD for 8 cells!) They still have charger combo kits and lots of 4 AA packs but they are the same price as the 8 AA packs! I left one 8 pack for another lucky person, but if its still there tonight I think I'll buy it too!


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