# Sanblasting and Powder Coating Flashlights ...



## wquiles (Sep 13, 2010)

I always wanted to give a tougher finish to my project lights than the OEM Anodize in the factory Mags, and although for Al the HAIII is the best/preferred method, I refused to deal myself with HA Type III since I have two small kids in the house. It is of course true that you can send your parts to be HAIII somewhere, but after talking to Brian (Mirage_Man) and others who have gone that route, and heard about some of the problems and inconsistent finish/color that sometimes results from HAIII, I decided to compromise and invest in a powder coating (PC) setup as the "consensus" seems to be that PC is more durable than the standard Anodize process, but not quite as strong/durable as true HAIII. I want to thank other forum members who have shared with experience with blasting cabinets and with powder coating, both publicly on various threads on CPF, and by email - you guys are awesome :bow:

From my reading prior to PC a part you really need to clean it well, and if possible make the surface slightly porous so that the PC can adhere well. So I started by making my own small, portable sand blasting cabinet. I bought this Maxus benchtop cabinet:












Which I then proceeded to clean up and seal it as most reviews on most of these low cost cabinets show that they are "very" rarely truly sealed from the factory (mostly coming from China).






I also added a car air filter to the intake port, not so much to prevent dirt from coming "in", but dust from coming out the intake port, even though my vacuum generated a very strong negative pressure inside (specially now that it is "well" sealed):







So with some kits parts from Horror Freight I build me a mobile system:











The height was set so that I can comfortable work/view everything as ergonomically as possible (silver "V" holders not painted black yet in this picture):








I also installed an air regulator right on the cabinet so that I can dial just what I need regardless of the shop's higher PSI on the lines:






To start with I am using AO 70 grit:






For my vacum I am using a small "contractor" grade (whatever that means!) with both filters in place, although I still "vent" outside:






and of course I am still using a good, vented P95 filter:






How does it work? At roughly 40-50 PSI I got this in a relatively short time. I left the right side untouched for a comparison, and to see how well the PC will adhere to the untreated surface:











I then degreased, cleaned, and baked the part in the oven for at least 30 minutes. Once the part was cooled, I then applied the powder with my PC gun (I have the older version of this one, when it was still being called the Hyper Smooth Pony PC system). The powder that I am using to try everything is a "textured" black powder. Here is a photo of the coated part on top of an untouched black cut-off for comparison:











The "textured" baked powder feels great on the hand/skin. Very "grippy" without being abrasive - I bet it would be great with greasy/dirty hands. The finish is fairly low-gloss - in the photos above it seems brighter than in person due to the close proximity of the twin lamps (one on each side). The coating was not very thick, since I can still screw the tailcap with no problems (of course I would have to touch up the edge on the lathe [or sandpaper by hand] to make it conductive again if this were part of a complete Mag light). I have other color and finishes to try, so this will be a fun and practical project for the next couple of weeks/months :thumbsup:


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## 350xfire (Sep 13, 2010)

Will, very nice! I especially love the mods you made to the blast cabinet to make it more friendly to operate. Another great job from you.
Thanks


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## precisionworks (Sep 13, 2010)

Very nice :thumbsup:

Will you also try glass beads as a blasting media? It leaves more of a satin finish than aluminum oxide, which may or may not be desirable for PC use.

PC is quite tough, as it's actually powdered paint that is baked onto the part. Awful stuff if it ever has to be cleaned off prior to welding, which shouldn't ever be a concern for a light.


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## wquiles (Sep 13, 2010)

Thank you guys - very much still a newbe here.




precisionworks said:


> Will you also try glass beads as a blasting media? It leaves more of a satin finish than aluminum oxide, which may or may not be desirable for PC use.



From my research, for treatment Al prior to PC, glass beads can be problematic. This is a very interesting and long thread that explains in good detail the problem (which has to do with some of the glass pieces get embedded in the relatively soft Al):
I found sand blasting aluminum prior to powder coating is a big no-no.


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## olephart (Sep 13, 2010)

Nice work on the cabinet! Get some spare nozzles if they are currently available. They seem very hard to find when ya need em.

I'd agree about bead blasting as a paint prep. It peens the surface rather than cutting it. Sorta closes the pores and makes the surface smoother.


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## QtrHorse (Sep 13, 2010)

Will, why not try the Cerakote finish? You have the blaster, spray gun and oven. The finish with be tougher than PC.


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## wquiles (Sep 13, 2010)

QtrHorse said:


> Will, why not try the Cerakote finish? You have the blaster, spray gun and oven. The finish with be tougher than PC.



Always a possibility. From what I have read it is a liquid, so I can't use my powder coating gun for it. Looks like I would need to buy a small, quality airbrush or HVLP (gravity fed) spray gun to apply it. Here is a good/short video from Brownells showing how to mix the color with the hardener, and then use a small airbrush to apply:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11833/guntechdetail/Demonstration_of_Specific_Cerakote_Application_

Here is a longer video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPGRwd8Pyfc


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## precisionworks (Sep 13, 2010)

Cerakote is tough ... but is a pricey process (cost of the coating material). Plus it's applied with a HVLP touch up spray gun, and a decent gun (like a SATAjet 3000) will run $500-$700.

http://www.nicindustries.com/cerakote.php


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## saltytri (Sep 13, 2010)

Will, that's a very promising result. :thumbsup:

Take a look at this as a possible alternative to Cerakote/Gunkote/Duracoat:

http://www.johnnorrellarms.com/molyresin_about.asp

There's a bottle sitting on my work bench but haven't yet used it. I'd welcome any info and advice from anyone who has. And I'll report in when I get a chance to break out the airbrush and try it. 

I'm REALLY trying to avoid the temptation to try anodizing! :shakehead


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## precisionworks (Sep 14, 2010)

> I'm REALLY trying to avoid the temptation to try anodizing!


+1

If you're thinking about ano, look at the Electroless Nickel process that Brownell's developed. Easy, doesn't require too much equipment, nearly foolproof, extraordinarily tough finish.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1069/Product/ELECTROLESS_NICKEL_PLATING

I worked in a shop that used this process, and it was one of the biggest profit makers they had. Surface prep is important, as it is with *any *finish (whether PC, ceramic, ano, etc.)


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## wquiles (Sep 14, 2010)

precisionworks said:


> +1
> 
> If you're thinking about ano, look at the Electroless Nickel process that Brownell's developed. Easy, doesn't require too much equipment, nearly foolproof, extraordinarily tough finish.
> 
> ...


Pretty awesome. Not exactly "cheap" to start playing with it, but of course that is a relatively large container that will work on LOTs of small flashlights, so the cost would be spread out.




saltytri said:


> Will, that's a very promising result. :thumbsup:
> 
> Take a look at this as a possible alternative to Cerakote/Gunkote/Duracoat:
> 
> ...


Thanks much for the link. Moly Resin does indeed look like a very good alternative to Cerakote/Gunkote/Duracoat, and it just needs a very simple/inexpensive airbrush like this one (complete kit being about $95, and as low as $70 if you shop around):
Badger Model 350 Single Action Airbrush




saltytri said:


> I'm REALLY trying to avoid the temptation to try anodizing! :shakehead


I know what you mean, but I am way past that point. With all of the viable options available today, Anodizing is dead last on my list :devil: . I am starting with Powder Coating, but I hope to try some of the other options later on as well.


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## saltytri (Sep 14, 2010)

Very interesting. But Brownell's instruction pdf doesn't mention using the stuff on any metal other than steel.


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## cmacclel (Sep 14, 2010)

precisionworks said:


> Cerakote is tough ... but is a pricey process (cost of the coating material). Plus it's applied with a HVLP touch up spray gun, and a decent gun (like a SATAjet 3000) will run $500-$700.
> 
> http://www.nicindustries.com/cerakote.php


 

Using my $12 HF Detail Gun.....perfect results everytime.


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## unterhausen (Sep 14, 2010)

wouldn't the PC really mess up heat transfer?


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## wquiles (Sep 14, 2010)

cmacclel said:


> Using my $12 HF Detail Gun.....perfect results everytime.



That looks awesome Mac :thumbsup:


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## wquiles (Sep 14, 2010)

unterhausen said:


> wouldn't the PC really mess up heat transfer?


I would worry more about the size/material of your heatsink, the power of your LED(s), and the overall mass of the light, before I worry about the finish on the light.


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## QtrHorse (Sep 14, 2010)

precisionworks said:


> Cerakote is tough ... but is a pricey process (cost of the coating material). Plus it's applied with a HVLP touch up spray gun, and a decent gun (like a SATAjet 3000) will run $500-$700.
> 
> http://www.nicindustries.com/cerakote.php


 

I spoke with a Cerakote technician for about an hour one day. You do not need a $500, $300 or even $100 gun to spray this product. You can use a Harbor Freight jobby if you want. It's not a mirror type finish so a $500 gun is not needed.

It is not pricey at all. You can buy a $35 kit and I was told that would cover 5 full size hand guns. I'm guessing that would translate into 5-7 1.5D Mags. You don't need to coat the inside of the tube or the threads.


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## precisionworks (Sep 15, 2010)

> You do not need a $500, $300 or even $100 gun to spray this product.


My bad ... I spray finishes for furniture & every other HVLP gun I've bought (& sold) has been a disappointment. The Sata guns work, so that's what I use.



> Brownell's instruction pdf doesn't mention using the stuff on any metal other than steel.


I worked at Brownell's during the time they were developing the EN process for gun shop use (1982 IIRC). It can be used on all steels (including leaded and resulfurized); cast iron; stainless steels; aluminum; copper, bronze and brass; non-conductors (ceramics, plastics); powdered or sintered metals; and magnesium, beryllium and titanium.

Cannot be used on UnObTanium :nana:


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## mototraxtech (Sep 15, 2010)

so what all do you have in your PC set up. I want to invest in one for coating dirtbike parts and some things on my project that I showed in the CAD posting. Not sure what all I need to get started. I read an article on one of the home coating systems in a four wheeler mag like maybe four years ago and they said it was easy and worked well. Even showed the process of the parts.


Its kinda funny though how you guys like PC but not Ano. In the dirtbike world Ano is the new think and PC is old news. Everyone wants all there parts Ano'd.

I however have found that the Ano looks great at first but then not so much. For example my 2007 bike has Black Ano'd forks and rear shock tube and they are now purple in the right light.


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## precisionworks (Sep 15, 2010)

> Black Ano'd forks and rear shock tube and they are now purple in the right light.



Anodizing is incredibly thin ... about .002" average for the toughest/thickest HAIII. Even thinner for the "non hard" anodizing.

PC, ceramic, EN, etc. are many times thicker.


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## wquiles (Sep 15, 2010)

mototraxtech said:


> so what all do you have in your PC set up. I want to invest in one for coating dirtbike parts and some things on my project that I showed in the CAD posting. Not sure what all I need to get started.


You basically need 3 things (besides the powder itself):
- sandblasting cabinet to prepare the part (but it can be home made)
- sandblasting gun/kit - applies the "charged" powder to your grounded part. You get what you paid for on this one - probably "the" most significant component.
- curing oven. I got a "dedicated" one, but an used home oven works fine. Just make sure it is "not" the same oven you use for food!




mototraxtech said:


> I however have found that the Ano looks great at first but then not so much. For example my 2007 bike has Black Ano'd forks and rear shock tube and they are now purple in the right light.


I talked over the phone with the guys I buy my PC stuff from (Powder Buy The Pound) and they explained to me that various powders have difference properties, and some are developed to do better in exteriors (long term exposure to the Sun). Call them, explain to them what you are after, and they will recommend to you the correct powder for your application.





precisionworks said:


> Anodizing is incredibly thin ... about .002" average for the toughest/thickest HAIII. Even thinner for the "non hard" anodizing.
> 
> PC, ceramic, EN, etc. are many times thicker.



PC is even thicker, at between 0.002" and 0.005", which can/do mess up threaded areas or anything with a close tolerances.

However, I spent several hours the other night reviewing the Molly Resin, and it was impressive (to me) was that it only adds about 0.0002" to 0.0005" thickness -> so it is recommended for fitted gun parts as it will not affect functioning. That is very thin, yet offers incredible protection. Very cool!
http://www.johnnorrellarms.com/molyresin_about.asp


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## PEU (Sep 16, 2010)

saltytri said:


> Very interesting. But Brownell's instruction pdf doesn't mention using the stuff on any metal other than steel.



I used electroless nickel on alu and brass and it worked like a charm, very smooth and even finish, color is almost the same as titanium. The shop worked mostly for the petroleum industry, but they did these parts to me because I guess it was fun to them to see their method applied to flashlights 


Pablo


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## saltytri (Sep 16, 2010)

wquiles said:


> I spent several hours the other night reviewing the Molly Resin, and it was impressive (to me) was that it only adds about 0.0002" to 0.0005" thickness -> so it is recommended for fitted gun parts as it will not affect functioning. That is very thin, yet offers incredible protection. Very cool!
> http://www.johnnorrellarms.com/molyresin_about.asp



Which is the reason I bought some. A very thin, non-conductive coating might be useful in twisty designs where mating threads need to be insulated.


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## wquiles (Sep 16, 2010)

saltytri said:


> Which is the reason I bought some. A very thin, non-conductive coating might be useful in twisty designs where mating threads need to be insulated.



Now that is an interesting angle that I did not think about it before. And I don't mean this as a challenge, but as a true inquiry: Have you been able to verify that the Moly Resin is in fact non-conductive? If it is true, since it is so thin, it "might" be a good isolator for mounting LED's that have a POS (+) contact on its base (like the Seoul P4's and others) where you would normally have to either have Anodizing or a "thick" layer of thermal epoxy to provide isolation. Since this stuff is tough and goes on so thin, again it "might" be a great alternative if its thermal resistance is not too bad/large.


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## saltytri (Sep 16, 2010)

Good question for which I don't yet know the answer. I figure it was worth a few bucks to find out.


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## wquiles (Sep 16, 2010)

saltytri said:


> Good question for which I don't yet know the answer. I figure it was worth a few bucks to find out.



Awesome. Once you do try the Moly Resin, please do post back in this thread so that we can learn from your experiences :thumbsup:


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## JimmyM (Sep 16, 2010)

That looks great, Will!!
I'm coming over NOW with a bottle of whiskey and all my Mag bodies.


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## olephart (Sep 16, 2010)

I've been using Norrell's for years on lights and other things (including plastics). I prefer it to the other moly coating products because it goes on thinner and mixes easier and protects better. It does not conduct, but I would hesitate to use it for that purpose on moving parts.

That's because it will wear to the base metal with continuous contact with hard surfaces. I think threads would wear through and make contact after awhile. I have one moly coated light that has been used heavily in a rough environment the last 5 years. I can see bare metal on all the sharp edges.

It doesn't bother me as it is simple to touch up if I cared about the looks. I wouldn't want to give the impression that it is an easily damaged coating. It's not, but, over time it won't hold up like hard anodizing. It is also has excellent heat radiation characteristics.

A cheap Badger air brush works fine and a dedicated oven is not necessary if you let it air dry for about a day before heating it up.


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## wquiles (Sep 16, 2010)

That is great to know - thanks much for a real-world example, and what to expect.

I was on the phone earlier today with Barry and he was telling me that the electro-less nickel from Brownells "should" wear better than most of the resin-based stuff. Probably something else to try in the future as well.


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## wquiles (Sep 17, 2010)

This morning I had some more time to "play" and learn about blasting and coating, and since I have a "few" Mag cut-outs, I have plenty of "victims" to play with :devil:

I started by doing a lighter blasting on the Mags - just rough up the surface (air pressure at 45 PSI). I think it is still too slippery/smooth, but since I got plenty of cutouts I gave it a try anyway - I need the practice with the PC gun!:












Cleaned them up good, then to the oven ...






Wait for them to cool off:






I am trying a different black powder, one that is supposed to do really well outdoors and under the Sun's UV:






My current PC setup:






Parts out of the oven, cooling down. Probably because I am still a newbe but I did spray them a little bit too thick this time. I am trying a couple of things with heat-resistant tape, both on the body and over the threaded area:





















Here is the part with the tape in the body removed - need to be very careful about tape overlap next time:






Here is how the threaded area looks like when it was not taped:






and here the one that was taped (granted, not the best job possible):






The second from low-left to up-right was the only one tapped on the threads - still, they all still accepted Mag tailcaps with no problems. Since I did not spray powder directly at the threads from the bottom, it looks like the minimal overspray on the inside threads is just fine for the Mags:











Here is a good close-up of the new "Super Durable" black against the prior textured black:











Here from left to right: OEM black, Textured PC, Super Durable Black (which again came out a little bit too thick):











Personally I still like the texture black better - lower gloss, less slippery, and looks like it would hide scratches/dings better.

Will


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## ninemm (Sep 17, 2010)

I definitely agree with you on the textured black. Looks better imo and seems like it would perform better too.


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## olephart (Sep 19, 2010)

Looks like you are well on your way to a very professional finish. I like the textured finish, too. It did seem to fill in the knurling more than the gloss finish. Maybe that's just a matter of adjusting the amount of spray.

A few years ago I fitted a barrel for a guy in trade for Electroless Nickel plating a FN FAL bolt/carrier. It's had several hundred rounds through it and ya can't see any wear. Seems like pretty tough stuff and a very thin coating. We didn't polish it before plating. Just blasted and etched the parts. Turned out with a nice satin finish. I suspect the durability is directly related to the care taken during the prep work.

I've been trying to find out more about the Black Electroless Nickel process. I would definitely use it on flashlights if a satin finish can be produced. I've seen a few large shops that do it, but can't find any DIY info.


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## parnell (Sep 19, 2010)

+1 on the textured.


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## precisionworks (Sep 19, 2010)

> We didn't polish it before plating. Just blasted and etched the parts.


I spoke with the chemist a few times during the EN development. He said that a smooth or polished surface gives the EN very little to "anchor" to, and that a blasted surface provides "tooth" for better coating adherence. 

He also mentioned that in addition to blasting, parts could be tumbled or shot peened. Parts with sharp edges may also be vibratory deburred.


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## mototraxtech (Sep 19, 2010)

the durable coat looks exactly like what my dirt bike frame is painted with. It is also VERY thick and kinda lumpy like that. Of course for a bike it is a good thing as it takes longer to wear though.


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## wquiles (Sep 20, 2010)

I took a few more cut-offs to try new things and a new powder:






Here there are after blasting - this time I gave them a little bit more time under the blast gun than last time - they do look a little bit more "dull":






And to test more over the threads I got these (un-blasted) just to see how much can/could be built over the thread area:






These are the un-blasted pieces cooling off (I am again using the Black Textured Powder):


















Here are the parts once cold to the touch. This Black Texture Powder is indeed very nice. And as expected, since these parts received powder directly on the threads, the baked powder does affect the threaded areas:











Here is the new powder that I am trying for a customer of mine:






My new setup - easier to clean without the small box:






Here are the Orange parts once cooled off. I must have done better than OK cleaning the black powder since I can't see no black dots/spots anywhere on these parts:






And comparing the Black Textured with the Orange:






Still lots to learn but making progress 

Will


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## mototraxtech (Sep 20, 2010)

those look great keep up the good work!


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 20, 2010)

I bet a textured orange would look nice:thumbsup:


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## tino_ale (Sep 22, 2010)

I am not familliar with hard coating, do you have any good link describing what it is, how it works, what kind of machine/tool you need to make it ?

I also vote for the mate finish. Looks very professionnal :thumbsup:


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## cmacclel (Sep 22, 2010)

Awesome progress Will it's only been what a year since you bought the PC gun  Still trying to figure out what Sanblasting is?? Hmm I'll google it!

Mac


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## precisionworks (Sep 22, 2010)

> I am not familliar with hard coating, do you have any good links



http://www.anodizing.org/Reference/reference_guide.html


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## gadget_lover (Sep 22, 2010)

cmacclel said:


> Awesome progress will it's only been what a year since you bought the PC gun  Still trying to figure out what Sanblasting is?? Hmm I'll google it!
> 
> Mac



SANblasting is the process where you try to write to every disk on your Storage Area Network at the same time from every computer on your network.

It keeps the disks nice and shiny inside. 

Daniel


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## wquiles (Sep 22, 2010)

cmacclel said:


> Awesome progress Will it's only been what a year since you bought the PC gun  Still trying to figure out what Sanblasting is?? Hmm I'll google it!
> 
> Mac



Yup, almost a whole year before I got to play with it. Better late than never, right? :devil:


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## ninemm (Sep 22, 2010)

That orange is sweet. Sign me up.


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