# Incan lamp options for for Surefire M4



## choombak (Dec 7, 2018)

Recently, I came about a Surefire M4 with a non-working lamp. Being a longtime member of CPF, I figured it'd be trivial to find a replacement, however, it does not seem to be the case. Most importantly, I would like to keep the light "as-is", meaning no compatible heads or reflectors, nor any addition or subtraction of parts. The only incan option that would allow me 4xCR123 is Lumens Factory HO-M4A, and a less desired option is Tad Customs (less desired since none of his offerings work on 4xCR123).

Apart from these, is there any other option? Thanks in advance.


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## id30209 (Dec 7, 2018)

2x16650 cells with Tads 7225 are the best option ever. The best beam i ever saw and darn bright. Not to mention huge capacity over 123...


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## scout24 (Dec 7, 2018)

2x16650 or 2x17670 would let you run several stock SF lamps. MN15, MN16, MN20, and a couple LumensFactory options- HO-M3T and EO-M3T


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## DUQ (Dec 7, 2018)

There are a few options from Lumens Factory, HO-M3T and EO-M3T run very well off of 2 x 17500 Li-ion cells.


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 7, 2018)

Phone Surefire, they probably have some in stock, even if not on their website. I recently got some E1e bulbs from them.

Bill


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## PJ (Dec 8, 2018)

I have 2 Surefire N62 500 lumen 12 volt bulbs new in package if you are interested. These are battery killers that can be run for no more than 3 minutes IIRC.
I have one in a 9P body and tailcap with a KT2 turbo head and A21 extender but I have only run it for no more than about 30 seconds at one time.
PM me if you are interested.


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## id30209 (Dec 8, 2018)

PJ said:


> I have 2 N62 500 lumen 12 volt bulbs new in package if you are interested. These are battery killers that can be run for no more than 3 minutes IIRC.
> PM me if you are interested.



I’ll take 2 if OP won’t


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## choombak (Dec 8, 2018)

id30209 said:


> I’ll take 2 if OP won’t



Go ahead id30209.


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 8, 2018)

Lets do business via PM. This is a discussion only thread.

Bill


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## mcm308 (Dec 10, 2018)

id30209 said:


> 2x16650 cells with Tads 7225 are the best option ever. The best beam i ever saw and darn bright. Not to mention huge capacity over 123...


Is that a Halogen or the other type? I have a halogen socket for my M4 but no bulbs.


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## id30209 (Dec 10, 2018)

mcm308 said:


> Is that a Halogen or the other type? I have a halogen socket for my M4 but no bulbs.



He has both options, for xenon (7225 bulbs) which is a hair shorter and halogen (Philips 7387, 7388, WelchAllyn’s...).
With each you will receive copper washers to postion between bulb and head reflector so you can focus it as you like.

Link to his webpage:
http://tadcustoms.com/flashlight.htm


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## Daniel_sk (Dec 14, 2020)

I am resurrecting this old thread because it also applies to M6. So there is a version of Tad's bi-pin that will fit WA1111, WA1185, Philips 7388 and others - right? 
The WA bulbs are hard to source and expensive, but I found that Philips bulbs are still easy to get and cheap even in EU. The 10W Philips 7387 is around 4.9 Euro, the 20W 7388 is just 3.8 Euro. How will the 7388 compare to WA1111? 
There is not much info about 7388 on CPF but people report that these seem to compare to WA1111 (even a mention from AW that these are better than WA1111 because they can handle IMR batteries too). I am looking to running these with 2x 18650. The 7388 looks like a reasonable and cheap option without going too crazy with the output (and low runtimes).


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 14, 2020)

Do these bulbs have a Halogen mix?

Bill


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## Daniel_sk (Dec 15, 2020)

These are halogen bulbs (spec) but Tad has just told me that new production Philips G4 bulbs will probably NOT fit the KT4 reflector because they are too wide in the base. They are supposedly now made by Osram and sold under Philips brand. Can anyone maybe confirm this? I ordered 10x 7388 and 10x 7387 so I don't know if I should cancel the order or just wait and test when they arrive. I guess I will let you know next week if they fit.


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## id30209 (Dec 16, 2020)

I have both sockets, for halogen and xenon but i cannot remember how do they fit in KT4 and what bulb did i use. 
I can reply back in January when i come home.


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## LED61 (Dec 17, 2020)

I have an original fully wrapped MN61 lamp for you.


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## fivemega (Dec 18, 2020)

*Assuming you are using 4 serial primary CR123 in unboared M4, and using bi-pin adapter, WA1318 will work similar to MN61
And yes, this lamp is halogen.*


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## Daniel_sk (Dec 19, 2020)

I received the Philips 7387 (6V, 10W) and Philips 7388 (6V, 20W). They seem to be all from the same batch, shrink-wrapped from factory. There is no manufacturing date, but these look "fresh" and there is a copyright sign with year 2018 (Signify holding), marked "Made in Germany", no old stock. 

So I removed every bulb from packaging and I tried to insert it as far as I could with tweezers into a standard M6 turbohead (KT4) as I don't have a bi-pin adapter yet. My findings:
*7387* (10W) - these are a tighter fit, but *7 out of 10 fit*.
*7388* (20W) - these seem to be a bit smaller (the difference is less than 0.5mm I would guess) and *all of them fit*.

That's quite good news, because these are readily available at local stores and they are below 3 Euro a piece. I am planning to use the 7388 (with 2x18650) as a cheaper and easier to obtain alternative to WA01111.


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## yazkaz (Dec 22, 2020)

@Daniel_sk
Don't do anything stupid to get yourself injured. Incan bulbs are NO easy matter. If they explode or smoke out inside the KT4 then you'll be toast, as repair costs will be high.
Get a proper MN bi-pin adapter instead. However I don't know if FM still makes them, or has some closeouts available.
Unfortunately TadCustoms has recently gone out of business so the chance of getting one of his adapters has now become little to nil.


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## Daniel_sk (Dec 22, 2020)

Yes, I am definitely not going to actually try these without a proper bi-pin adapter and I have also huge respect for high-discharge 18650. FM doesn't make them anymore and he said he probably won't again because the last run took long to sell out. Tad stopped making them, but he still has some in stock on his eBay store or if you contact him by email. He reserved both G4 (Xenon and Halong) bi-pin towers for me - unfortunately he can't ship them right now to my country because HK Post has suspended airmail to many parts of world due to the pandemic.
So if anyone wants a M4/M6 MN bi-pin adapter then grab the last ones from Tad.


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## yazkaz (Dec 22, 2020)

Daniel_sk said:


> Yes, I am definitely not going to actually try these without a proper bi-pin adapter and I have also huge respect for high-discharge 18650. FM doesn't make them anymore and he said he probably won't again because the last run took long to sell out. Tad stopped making them, but he still has some in stock on his eBay store or if you contact him by email. He reserved both G4 (Xenon and Halong) bi-pin towers for me - unfortunately he can't ship them right now to my country because HK Post has suspended airmail to many parts of world due to the pandemic.
> So if anyone wants a M4/M6 MN bi-pin adapter then grab the last ones from Tad.


According to the latest HKPost notices only Surface Mail is available for shipping to Slovak Republic, as we speak:
https://www.hongkongpost.hk/en/about_us/whats_new/notices/index_id_1016.html

It'll be slow, perhaps a month or two of wait time, but if you need those sockets then this will be your last chance... before somebody nabs them all and you end up with none. So go ahead and ask Tad to reserve them for you.


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## Daniel_sk (Feb 12, 2021)

A small update on my 2x 18650 + Tad G4 bi-pin M6 build, but this applies also to M4. 

Both Philips G4 bulbs work great so far, the 7387 (10W) and 7388 (20W). The 20W requires high-discharge 18650 batteries like the 3000 mAh Vapcell ones, it will not fire on first click on regular 18650 - you need to press several times to fire up the bulb. The 10W bulb works just fine on regular 18650 batteries. The 2x18650 inside an M6 is a tight fit, but it fits. So far I am happy with the outcome. Of course the 20W is brighter but at the cost of much higher power consumption, the 10W is actually quite practical in terms of output/consumption. I just hope the bulbs won't blow up and destroy the KT4 reflector, but I read stories about original SF bulbs blowing up in the M6, so the risk is always there. Overall this is a good cost effective setup and would also work with M4 if you have a bored out body for 18650 or if you have a Leef or other 2x18650 body. The battery adapter is available from altermann (CPF member) and bi-pin adapters are available from Tad - but he is running of stock.
It's nice to have a rechargeable option which basically delivers the same or higher output and runtime than the original SF MN21 bulb and it's rechargeable. Of course the disadvantage is less reliability. These G4 bulbs only last 10 hours, but are very cheap to replace. And the protected 18650 batteries are more prone to failure than primary CR123.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 12, 2021)

Do you have access to any soft start switches? I use the KL1/2 with a soft start switch. It handles KL4 lamps just fine.


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## novice (Feb 13, 2021)

Thanks for this write-up of the 7387 and 7388. I ordered just a few today. I'm going to try them in my FM G4 [email protected] adapter; first in a 5D with 5x cheap alkaline cells (we'll see how that works), and again in a 2D ROP [email protected] with 2x AW IMR 26650 Li-ions. In both cases, I will be removing the head and reflector first, then taking it outside and pointing it away from myself, turning my face aside, and firing it up. I've got a few metal reflectors to play with (textured and smooth), as well as an aspheric lens (I hope Batman doesn't show up). I'm unclear on whether or not I will later buy any 7388 bulbs later; I have enough Lux_Luthor-reviewed battery-drainers, as it is.


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