# Medical doctor's penlight



## justin (Dec 2, 2005)

Don’t you love the Internet. I got online looking for a flashlight to meet my needs, thinking I would have only a few options. Well, well, well.

I saw a recent post about medical lights. I liked the post, but it didn’t apply to my situation. 

I don't look in people’s eyes with lights, so I will not blind anyone. But don’t want to make looking closely at the object difficulty due to its brightness. I do work from 1-2 feet away. 
I also don’t mind the size of a 2xAA maglight, although too heavy is not good. I don't want a penlight.
I need good color rendition, and some LEDs with a blue tint make good visualization difficult. 
I need a tight, bright beam at two feet.
It usually is easy for me to get my hands on AAA, AA batteries. I would like the rechargeable option too. I wouldn’t use the light for more than a couple of minutes at a time. I would like to be able to rely on the light being consistent, however, as I can’t be fiddling with the light during a procedure. 

My buddy just picked up the Super-Lux flashlight from Brookstone. It seemed pretty bright. It seems to be about the right size. It uses CR-123, which is a bit annoying. I guess if reliable rechargeables could be had, then that would be ok. The light seems a bit blue to me.

I use bright Welch Allyn Xenon headlights in the OR, and that is a good white. It is at 5500K. I am not opposed to LED if color is good.

I would probably like to fasten it to a headband to I could use it handsfree from time to time, but don't want a dedicated headlight.

So, I need a bright beam right where I shine it that doesn’t blind me from 1-2 feet away, and shows accurate colors. I am a resident doctor, so any recommendations in the <$50 range? Thanks in advance.


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## joema (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

There's always the Welch-Allyn penlights:

http://www.allheart.com/wa76600.html

Accurate color rendition can be difficult for LED flashlights. However it is possible. There was a thread where an army medical corpsman described what LED lights he used in Iraq, but I can't find it right now.


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## cratz2 (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Hrmm... Well, in my opinion, even a Lux I is out as most that are reasonably well-focused are just too bright for close up work. 

A Maglite or Maglite clone (if you prefer a clickie tail cap to a twist-on head) with an MJLED is very nice... My two most recent ones are very white, much whiter than the River Rock 2xAAA light which would otherwise probably be my first recommendation.

I build a lot of lights for nurses, mostly Minimags and Minimag clones with 26k, 35k, Nichia CS and MJLEDs but for general use, the River Rock has made me rethink that... It's even smaller, throws a nice usable beam with good runtime. But they are decidedly blue-tinted.


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## Jumpmaster (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*



justin said:


> I also don’t mind the size of a 2xAA maglight, although too heavy is not good. *I don't want a penlight.*





joema said:


> There's always the Welch-Allyn penlights:



:huh2:


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## igabo (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

There's the Nuwai Q-III which is an LED with decent color; though it does use CR123's, it is capable of using a Rechargeable CR123 that runs at a higher voltage, without destroying anything. Only problem is the Q-III and a pair of Rechargeable CR123 will probably run you about $60; but it is worth it.

Another option is the Fenix L1; uses 1AA (can take rechargeable), small, bright (for it's size) durable, and $42.

Just my 2 cents.


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## UVvis (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

I've been in the same situation.

The beam shapers like what surefire offers, are great for this type of use. Normally you want a close range flood to light everything up. I found that a Surefire E2e with the longer runtime lamp and the beamshaper were ideally suited for this task. 

A cheaper substitute is to take about any regular flashlight, and put some of the matte looking scotch tape over the lens, it gives you a similar and easily removed trial method.


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

What exactly are you going to be using the light for? Illumination for minor procedures? Peering into people's throats (or other orifices)? If you're going to be using it for procedures, you need a headlight.

An Inova X1 sounds like it has the beam pattern you describe (tightly focused, no flood), but it's not very bright and the stock "white" LED is rather blue-tinted. You might have it modded with a "Snow" LED.

You could go with a Peak Matterhorn or Kilimanjaro with multiple Snow LEDs.

It's going to be difficult to match the performance of a coaxial halogen headlight with a handheld LED light.


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## WinstonSmith (Dec 2, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

The Inova X1 throws a small, precise beam. At two feet, mine threw about a five inch spot. At a foot, that shrank to three inches. Almost nothing outside the spot. 

Not real useful around the house, but might be good in this application.


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## nethiker (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Fenix. 1xAA or there is now the 2xAA version. The beam might not be as tight as you were looking for, but a fantastic light for the money.

__________

Greg


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## justin (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Great replies. Thanks.
Most of what I need is good light to peer down holes in peoples' necks, and into mouths. Occasionally I might need to wear it on a headband for some hands free work for five minutes at a time. 
I definitely like the coaxial halogen headlights, but I am looking for a portable unit that I can stash in a pocket/bag for rounding in the hospital, or in the ER when I can't easily swipe a headlight from the OR.
I currently have a Petzl Xenon 4xAA camping headlight, the Myo. I didn't get one with the LEDs, as they didn't focus. The headlight is focusable, but the spot is more like a blur than any tight light. It sort of does the trick. With fresh batts, it lights OK, but not great. It doesn't work as a flashlight to store in a pocket, though.
Do any Xenon incandescents light up well and throw a tight beam?
I am new to this forum, so I really appreciate this input. When I started searching for flashlights, I thought I would run out of options in about ten minutes. It took ten minutes to figure out I had barely scratched the surface!
Actually, now that I think of it, the Myo is difficult for me to use as I always seem to get a dark spot in my beam at 1-2 feet, no matter how tightly I focus. Originally I said I wanted a real tight beam. I guess if the light were uniformly bright over its projection at 2 feet, then it would be great. I certainly don't need a wide flood, but I also don't need a laser. Imagine trying to get the best look as possible in someone's mouth, under their tongue, and in the back of the throat without having to aquint or wonder if you are seeing everything there is to see. 
Ideally I would like to be able to do what it shows at this site with this light. http://www.dysphonia.certec.lth.se/[email protected]=10006.html
This requires a bright light this is fairly well focused as it must bounce off the mirror held behind someone's tongue and reflect down their throat. So, again, it doesn't have to be a laser. The website shows a bright halogen lamp used as a light source that is focused by a 3.5" mirror with a small hole in the middle to look through. I think it has a focal length of 18", which is about right to look in someone mouth and use the mirror as described.
This is not the only thing I do with it. But, if it could do that, then it would easily do everything else I would need.
Quick update. Welch Allyn sells a headlight designed for what I would want, except that it's a $250 headlight. specs here: http://www.welchallyn.com/medical/support/manuals/Portable%20Solid%20State%20Light.pdf


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## Mike Painter (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

How about a Thor?
Failing that you might try something like  this 
I have a similar one which lives in my car. It's a "bit" smaller than the Thor, can focus fairly well, and might work for you. If not it comes with a couple bucks worth of batteries and can live in your glovebox for a long time.


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## cy (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

you want a fenix L1-P with a two stage mod. cost is is $45 + 10 ohm resisters from ratshak. 

dial in how bright you want low beam by experimenting with resister value. 

here's my EZ 15min two stage fenix mod
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=100142

for headlamp purchase a $15 river rock from Target. gives nice tight beam, but not as powerful as fenix. uses 2x AAA. beam is regulated on both. 

you can also find a maglite headband to use fenix as headlamp for $6.


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## AndrewL (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

I use the QIII for first aid use and it's good for checking wounds to see if there's grit in there etc but I'm not sure how good it would be at looking down someones throat. It's small enough to be ok on a headband and can fit in a pocket very well.
you'll find a use it if you get one


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## cognitivefun (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

I think you need something incandescent for better color spectrum than current LED technologies allow.


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

With any LED light, there is the potential for tint issues. The River Rock 0.5W lights tend to be blue. Luxeon lights are subject to the "Luxeon lottery".

You could try a Mini-Mag ($10-15) with the Nite-Ize LED drop-in (about $4-5 at Wal-Mart). The LED upgrade supposedly uses Snow29 LEDs, so the output should be close enough to white for your purposes. Nite-Ize also sells a headband accessory you could use for the ER and on rounds, but in my experience a dedicated headlight is much more useful. You want the light to be mounted in the midline, between your eyes. If the light is mounted laterally, you might have to **** your head and look sideways if you want to put the hotspot on a particular site of interest.

Here's a list of Nite-Ize upgrades and accessories:

http://www.niteize.com/category.php?category_id=28

You could give the upgraded Minimag a try. Even if it doesn't work out for clinical purposes, you still have a decent light for the glove compartment, or for household usage. It uses AA batteries which are readily available in any hospital or clinic (some of the disposable pulse lavage devices used in the OR contain 6 or 8 carbon-zinc AA batteries... the nurses crack them open after the case is done to salvage the batteries). And the setup is inexpensive enough that it won't be a great loss if you lose it or it gets stolen.

You might also want to try the Peak Matterhorn. It uses AAA batteries, which might be a little more difficult to find than AAs (many pagers use AAA batteries, so there might be a readily available source of spares for you). It uses the Snow29 LEDs. It is smaller than the Minimag, so it would be unobtrusive in a pocket or carried on a lanyard on your neck.

It is of much higher quality than a Minimag. It is also much more expensive, about $45-50. You'll definitely be mad if it gets lost or stolen. The other factor is that the LEDs are recessed in the head, which creates nooks and crannies where... um... _biomaterial_ could get lodged. The lights are supposed to be water resistant, so if somebody coughs up a loogie or some blood on your light you could wash it off. The fingernail picks at the scrub sink could be used to dig out stuff that gets lodged between the LEDs.

I'd recommend getting the lug or key chain body, as you'll probably want an attachment point to carry it on a keychain or lanyard.

The HAIII finish is durable, but my personal preference would be for stainless steel. I also prefer the aesthetic appearance of the lug style body over the keychain style body. However, the stainless steel lug body doesn't exist... 

Anyway, I'd try the 3 LED Snow Hi-Power configuration. Ultra Power is probably overkill for short-range applications, and will significantly reduce the lifespan of the LEDs.

http://www.peakledsolutions.net/aaa.html

Peak is hopefully going to release a Luxeon AAA light in the next week or two. You might want to wait a bit and see what people think about that model.

I'm going to get one for a friend who's an ENT. I'm not sure how much he'll actually use it, because he specializes in oncologic surgery and doesn't see general ENT problems much, but it's an excuse to buy another flashlight! :naughty:


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## justin (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Again, thanks.
I have been looking at mods as I do have a minimag. My concern is over focusability, or rather, focus and tight beam at all. I am concerned that a general though bright flood might not work. I may be wrong, but we always seem to focus our lights into a tight circle, maybe inches across to aim it where we want it. 

What about the L2P? I was looking at some Mods that were way more than this little lamp. I actually think the 2AA size is a better fit for me. I like the feel of the Minimag for exams. It is not too small, which some of the single battery units seem to be. I know some particulars are not known, but based on what seems to be nearly universal awe at the L1P, can its brother be worse?

More importantly, would it do the trick? 

On the other hand, $5 for a Walmart add-on sure is not a bad way to go. I just don't know if the local walmarts will have it, and I am not keen on driving all over town to get it, or ordering it on-line and paying $8 to ship it. Then, I might as well get a new X1.

Cognitivefun suggested incandescents. Does anyone have a good recommendation? My only experience with them is that they are great for general purpose. I have a 3D mag that does fine for most activities when I want to wield a small club. However, they have a hole in the middle of the light and they focus poorly. Also, they never seem to actually be that bright. I imagine I would have trouble getting something bright enough in a 2AA or smaller form factor. Any more suggestions? Or rather, any more witnesses for or against anything already posted? 

The difficult thing is that I can't walk in to a store, check out ten different lights, and decide. No one has these locally, that I know, and certainly, no one has multiple high quality torches.

I can see why this becomes addicting. I spent four hours last night, after midnight, looking at charts, reviews, product info, etc.


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## cognitivefun (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

*justin*, I would suggest a SureFire A2 Aviator. It runs on lithium batteries, which you said you don't want. But it is regulated. That means it will go for about 45 minutes on incandescent at a very focused, even brightness, with excellent color rendition. 

The trouble with so many small incandescent lights is that they dim and yellow a few minutes into the battery life. They may have a 60 minute runtime, but only the first few minutes has bright, white light.

Not so for the A2.

I used mine recently to see when I needed to remove a tick from my dog. It is great for this type of work if you are already in a lighted facility anyway. It would be blinding if you are working in the dark.

If you only use it a few minutes every day anyway, what would be the cost of operation? Peanuts. You can buy the batteries on the web for $1.25 each, so you are looking at $2.50 per month or less. The lamps never seem to blow out. 

The A2 is waterproof down to 33 feet so it can be washed off. And it has LEDs that you can use if you want that kind of light.


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

For small lights, I think LEDs are going to beat incandescents for efficiency and runtime.

For looking waaaay back into the nasopharynx, you'll need a specialized illumination instrument.

http://www.welchallyn.com/medical/products/catalog/type.asp?ID=24311

For procedures, you definitely need a headlamp. It's hard to be a one-handed surgeon.

To supplement the crappy lighting in the ER, I use a Princeton Tec Eos. It's not mine, somebody got it for general shared use in the ER. It's available at ****'s Sporting Goods for $39.99.

It's a bit yellow, compared to the pure white output of a Welch-Allyn Luxeon surgical headlamp. However, individual emitters will vary in tint so that doesn't mean _all_ PT Eos lights are going to be yellowish.

http://www.welchallyn.com/medical/products/catalog/type.asp?ID=33995

However, the Welch-Allyn lights cost $275 for the "basic" LuxI model and $685 for the "premium" LuxV model. The cost probably reflects how picky they are about tint, as they no doubt select only the whitest emitters for their products. (Like the HDS "GT" models.) For the same amount of money, you could buy a lot of Eos headlights and pick the whitest one.

For looking at the oral cavity and throats, and for examinations at the bedside during 5 AM rounds, the Fenix L1P or L2P should be more than adequate. Be aware that there will be a "donut hole" in the center of the beam when the Fenix is used to illuminate an object about an inch away. That's not a defect, that's a property of the reflector/emitter setup.

FWIW, the Fenix L1P works fine for me for general purpose illumination. My pager takes an AA battery, so I always have a backup battery on hand. It's small and unobtrusive for pocket carry in the office. It's a PITA to carry with scrubs, but a pocket clip would fix that. I use mine for surface illumination and to backlight radiographs when there's no light box available. I don't need to peer into any cavities, crevices, orifices, or yucky places. It's not *perfectly* white compared to the searing beam of the OR coaxial halogen headlights or fixed OR lights, but it's more than adequate for the office and making rounds in dark rooms.


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## cratz2 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

It seems odd that with as popular as the Minimag is, no one has come up with a beamshaper type product that allows only a very small centered bit of light to escape... seems like that would be just the ticket for justin. With a little effort, you could probably fashion something useful out of a piece of opaque plastic cut to proper diameter and drilled with a small drill...

As far as LED tints... W0 and X0s are very white and would generally suffice for this use, I would think. I recently bought and resold a TLE-5 module and I think it had either a W0 or an X0 tint. If you step up to a custom pill or sandwich with some sort of shaper, you can dictate what bin is used but this will likely put you in the over $50 range. A Lux I will be more than adequate for looking into someones throat, but all the work seems to center around the Lux IIIs and I think their binning is a bit more accurate overall. 

So... not to ask a stupid question, but is there an ebay-ish outlet for used medical lights? Are you trying to put something together for off-duty use or are you just not happy with the equipment you have at work or are there just not enough lights at your work?


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## springnr (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

http://www.brightguy.com/detail.php?Sku=UND14201.


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## justin (Dec 4, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

This is all great stuff. Hookd on Photons, I appreciate the info from a first hand point of view. Cratz2, there are plenty of good instruments around. The ORs have lots of excellent headlights that illuminate just fine. The exam room are also full of good light sources. If you can believe it, one of the best is a standard, well high watt halogen free standing lamp which one shines on a head mirror. This is the thingy that Normal Rockwell would include in all his paintings if it included a doctor. Yes, we still use them from time to time.
What I need is a good portable light source. I may get called to see someone at night in the ER (where good lighting is hit or miss), or in a patient room in the hospital. There, the lighting is guaranteed to be extremely bad. I can't haul around large lights with me. So, I am looking for good, portable lighting. A general flashlight would do fine just to peer in someone's mouth. However, I may need to distinguish if a small patch of something in the back of the throat is raised, or flat against the lining of the throat. I may also need to look down a narrow hole in someone's neck, and must have good, focused light to get it way down there. Or, if I am looking at a wound, I need to be able to determine what is what. Good light is the key. (I know I am preaching to the choir about that one.)
Various headlights are available. Some exceptional Welch Allyn headlights are portable, and rechargeable. I would love one of the lamps mentioned above. I will get one when I am out practicing, but I don't have the $ now to buy something that is $275. 
In any case, I still need a good handheld light as I would not use a headlight except in some situations. Just to peer into someone's mouth, I would use a flashlight, though using a headlight would be helpful as I could use two hands. If I needed to do something in there, then I would put on my headlight. I have a Petzl Myo, which seems to actually be great for the quick jobs. For anything more than a few minutes, then I would get a real headlight. 
If I do have a great flashlight, though, getting a headband so I could use it freehand would be helpful. I know bands are available all over, so that is not an issue.
Hookd, I definitely want one of those WA lights. I have already contacted the rep to stop by our clinic in January to demo them. I think I will have to wait a bit though before I could get one. I have not been able to find used ones anywhere. I don't know who would want to get rid of them?
Does anyone know of such an outlet?
So, question about INOVA. The X0, X1, T1, T2, and T3 are all supposed to be spot lights with a tight focus. What are people's experience with them? A good light? Color rendition? Using rechargeable cr123? Is a 2 or 3 watt light too bright for close work?

So, I think a short list might be: L1P, L2P, Streamlight Jr, INOVAs, Matterhorn?
Final words anyone? Thanks.


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Dec 4, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Most residency programs are affiliated with a medical school. Most medical school have one or more bookstores on or near campus. Many of them buy and sell used equipment (stethoscopes, otoscopes, etc.), usually at the start and end of the academic year. I doubt you'd find one of those Luxeon headlights, as they're high-end equipment, but it's possible you could find a decent small Welch-Allyn otoscope or similar incandescent light if you'd rather use one of those. I still have a WA otoscope/opthalmoscope kit I bought used about 15 years ago that works fine (though the NiCad battery stick died a couple years ago, and I had to buy a replacement). At the end of the academic year, the graduating chief residents might be willing to sell you some of their used equipment, since they'll probably be purchasing better stuff in the near future.

I personally wouldn't recommend the Inova lights you listed. The X1 is a single AA light, but it's going to be too dim (and probably too blue) for you. The other Inovas you mentioned use CR123 batteries. While CR123s are available for $1 each online, are you going to keep a spare CR123 with you at all times? AA and AAA batteries are ubiquitous in a hospital for pagers and other devices, so if you need a new one you can often get one free for the asking from any ward clerk or the OR control desk. Also, the TIROS optic causes some ring artifacts at the periphery. This probably wouldn't be a major problem at the distances you'd use the light, though. During a procedure, your attention is going to be tightly focused right where you're working, so the hotspot of just about any light is going to cover that area adequately. If you've noticed, the OR headlights illuminate a tight spot of just a few inches in diameter at the working distance. And most ceiling-mounted OR lights have all sorts of beam artifacts (like a Maglight) which are not noticable because your attention is directed at the central spot.

My personal recommendation would be the Fenix L1P for pocket carry. I think a 3-LED Matterhorn would also be a good choice. The Matterhorn would provide enough illumination for your purposes, and is smaller than the Fenix. If you carry a keyring everywhere, the Matterhorn could be carried completely unobtrusively. You could even use a lanyard or split ring to attach it to your pager, if you plan to use it frequently and need to carry it everywhere. For the applications you've described, you would probably be well served with a Fenix L1P and a Nite-Ize headband for the occasional procedure where you'd need both hands free. Ideally, I'd recommend getting *both* in true CPF fashion, but that's probably not feasible on a resident's salary.

Even if the Fenix or Matterhorn don't work out for medical use (which I highly doubt will be the case), they're still excellent general purpose lights. Note that a few people have reported problems with the Fenix clicky switch. Mine acted up a bit until I tightened up the switch assembly with some snap-ring pliers. If you don't want to take the chance on the clicky (which I think is a very minor consideration), then get the Matterhorn (which is twisty activated). If you would prefer a twisty but want an AA-powered light, Peak's Kilimanjaro (Snow29 LEDs) and Kino Bay (LuxI) are good alternatives to the Matterhorn, though they're probably more suited for pocket carry than keychain carry.

I think you'd be surprised how well the Princeton Tec Eos on high mode stacks up against a high-quality coaxial halogen headlight. One caveat: I almost always wear 2.5x loupes for procedures, so just about any 1-watt white Luxeon headlight would probably suffice for my working area. While I criticized the Eos a bit for being yellowish, the incandescent procedure lights in the ER are much yellower than the Eos (but then again, my color perception has probably been screwed up by all of the bluish-tinted Luxeon lights I own).

There are going to be some major advances in high-flux LED technology in the next few years. I'd hold off on buying a Welch-Allyn LED headlight for now. By the time you're done with residency and can afford better lights, there should be some really good LED headlights available.

Oh, one more thing: if you work in a county or inner-city hospital where it is highly probable that your possessions will get stolen from your lab coat pocket (it happens, and it's usually the *staff* not the patients), then either get the Minimag + Nite-Ize upgrade, or a Princeton Tec Blast.


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## dougmccoy (Dec 4, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

I'm a UK paramedic and over the last 20 years have used various lights for patient examination. I think that there are as many opinions on lights as there are about politics but in general have found that there is a false perception about LED's versus incandescent lights when being used for this purpose.

Contrary to popular belief LED's do a pretty good job of illuminating almost any part of the human antomy and provide good colour rendition to define tonal differences.

LED's do not appear to work so well when used for transillumination. 

I have spent quite a lot of money buying high end medical lights only to be disappointed by either the performance or the durability and now have come to the conclusion that almost any procedure can be accomplished without having to spend a fortune.

Depending on the task at hand headlamps do have distinct advantages but for most procedures and examinations are not necessary.

I have from personal experience simplified my personal carry to the following:

1) A MJLED modified AAA Minimaglite. This will enable any superficial ENT type examination (it does not substitute for an otoscope) and has the advantage of ease of carry and easily obtained batteries. In addition it can be placed between the teeth or used with a headband without problems. It works well at establishing pupil reaction without causing the patient undue discomfort.

2) An incandescent E2e. This is more than adequate for general lighting and makes identification of rashes and skin tones easy. It can also be used to transilluminate paediatric veins etc. When used at Road Traffic accidents it is an absolute godsend as it is always on you when you need it and has the same attribute as the Minimaglite in that it is easily carried in between your teeth.

You of course may never have to set foot outside a hospital or primary care centre but I would caution you that purchasing your own equipment which cant be easily carried is an open invitation to loosing your own equipment or having others use it without your permission(sometimes permanently)!

Whatever you get, may I suggest that you don't get the most expensive lights first? You may well find that simpler options do the job remarkably well without the need to spend your hard earned cash for little gain.

All the best 

Doug


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## yaesumofo (Dec 4, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

HDS EDC GT.

This light will suit your needs with it's high quality tinted LED and variable output make it perfect for your needs. I have shown it to several Doctors who have to a man asked where to get one and have immeaditly for their emergengy to go kits. It is small durable and very high quality.
Good Luck.
Yaesumofo


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## depusm12 (Dec 4, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Have you thought about a Streamlight JR Luxeon Led light. Its about the size of the Mini Mag, uses AA batteries, has a clicky tailcap switch and are around 25-30 bucks maybe less.


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Dec 4, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

HDS EDC GT is an excellent choice, but most resident docs won't be able to justify spending that kind of $$$ for a light. They don't get paid the big bucks, and expensive books are a higher priority for big-ticket purchases.

There have been a couple threads about Streamlight Jr Luxeons failing. It's not clear whether it's the Kroll switch or the light engine. Yeah, I'm a hypocrite for mentioning this while blowing off the Fenix switch complaints... FWIW, Streamlight has an excellent warranty.

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=94707

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=98617

justin, go to a Wal-Mart and get the Nite-Ize LED upgrade for your minimag. It's <$5, and it might be enough for your needs.

If you want a smaller light (which I suspect you eventually will - the 2AA form factor is somewhat cumbersome for pocket carry in a lab coat), the Nite-Ize uses Snow29 LEDS, so you'll have a pretty good idea of whether or not the tint of the Peak lights will suffice. The Peak lights drive the LEDs harder than the Nite-Ize drop-in, so they will be just as bright, if not brighter.

dougmccoy brings up several good points, particularly about transillumination. For whatever reason, LED lights can't do it very well. To transilluminate sinuses you're going to need one of those fiber optic nasopharynx illuminators anyway. In a hospital setting, transillumination has fallen by the wayside as a diagnostic modality, since CT/MRI/ultrasound are readily available. (It's very useful in the field to first responders though.)

Most "medical lights" are overpriced because they're "medical", BTW...


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## cratz2 (Dec 4, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

To go OT for a moment... has it been confirmed that the Nite Ize uses the Snow LEDS? I've never had a peak light with the snow LEDs, but aren't they supposed to burn out or lose brightness more prematurely than most other 5mm LEDs? I mean, at $5 for the Nite Ize, that's still chump change, but was just thinking out loud. They are very white and when I go back to the Nite Ize after not using it for several days, I'm always impressed with how white it is.

I would agree with the suggestion to get the Nite Ize regardless. For indoor use, it is probably the single biggest 30 second improvement that can be made to a flashlight. I still prefer the MJLED, but the Nite Ize is more convinient and cheaper.


----------



## justin (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Reading my last post makes me laugh a bit. I was on-call, and my spelling sure did show it. 

I will pick up a nite ize tomorrow. I can see what works, and go from there. If it isn't enough, like you all have said, $5 turns a good return in utility on a minimag. 

Hookd on Photons, in your last post, when talking about the Peak lights, were you referring to the Matterhorn? I think I like the idea of a more focused single LED than a trio as far as giving some directed throw, as far as Matterhorn options go. Or would a Kilimanjaro single be good? Now these are lower powered 5mm LEDs. Is that too little light, especially with a AAA batt in the Matterhorn? What about the ultrapower versions? I am afraid the Kino bay is out of my pricerange.
Are there any places that seel these things at a discount? I love shopping for discounts, but they don't really seem to be available.

Just tonight, I was looking into an intubated patient's mouth because she was having bleeding from somewhere. I was using my Xenon headlight with fresh batts, which was lighting up OK for my short needs. However, when the light shined on her teeth, my eyes accommodated to that level, and though light made it into her mouth, it was a dark tunnel in there. Once I got the light off her teeth and into her mouth more, it was OK. So, I am thinking something that I can direct a bit better will help.

I still like the idea of a streamlight junior or fenix. I could probably swing up to maybe $50 for a christmas gift. I am going to carry my minimag in my pocket tomorrow, though I am not seeing patients, just to see how its bulk and length feel. I like the idea of the L2P or the Streamlight, as a good light is always in demand, and if one light can serve more purposes, then great. I don't spend too much time in areas where my light could get swiped, so I think that will be OK. 
Question from the uninitiated that explains why I might be interested in the longer lights mentioned. 2 batteries in parallel can increase total current, but not voltage, where in series, current is fixed while voltage increases? Am I remembering correctly?
In any case, with two batts, one or the other will be increased. So, that being said, is the L2P, or Junior, going to be significantly brighter than the L1P? Or the Matterhorn? I know experience with the new light is minimal. I guess I am trying to weigh the differences between the two lights. I recognize the extra two inches, and greater longetvity, but what else? I will be using alkies as they are abundant at work. So, is regulation that big a deal? I would prefer to be running the lights as white as possible for as long as possible between battery changes. So, do the graphs of lumens vs. time make a real difference among these lights?What else should I consider? What about compared to the Streamlight Junior?

I am leary of single batt lights as my experience to present, which pretty much involves only incandescents, leads me to believe that a light with one AA, such as my Micro mag (maybe that's a AAA?) has only enough light to help me find my bigger flashlight.

Thanks again for all the input. It is great to hear from people in the UK, too. 
To respond, luckily, I do not do much transillumination. I do have two excellent WA otoscopes that have a good light on them. They are just awkward to carry, and if the battery starts to die, it goes in a hurry. Then, it takes twelve hours before it can be used again. I should be able to put some C batts in it in a pinch, but finding those can be problematic. I certainly don't want to be carrying around 2 Cs with me just in case. I do use the otoscope on occasion to transilluminate.

Final note, and I know this is why we even bother posting on this site: a flashlight, to many people, is a plastic case with batteries in it, that are usually nearly dead, and throws out a terrible beam that barely helps in any situtation, let alone a serious one. But, a nice light, with a solid feel and quality metal construction, a glass lens and really usable light is a real tool. It is something to be relied on. There is a pretty high gadget factor when you can tell someone why this light is more than just a flashlight. So, moding a minimag, though pretty cool because, who mods a flashlight?, is not the same as having a machined piece of steel or aluminum that won't break, crack or leak water if it gets rained or puked on, lights up like crazy for its size and works when and where you need it without question. I am afraid I have become hookd, and all I wanted to do was find a cheap flashlight that was going to be good for looking in mouths. Thanks a lot!

Hookd, what kind of provider are you, if I may ask?

I have not gotten a good feeling for the Inovas. If I were interested in the T1 or T2, so that light output would presumably be adequate, would these lights make sense? flashlightreviews and ledmuseum both seem to like them. They note white light, and not too much blue. I see that the X1 is not a good option. I know these are cr123 lights, but they sell for $29 and $39 plus ship. Do they accept rechargeable batts? It seems like maybe the T1 with a couple of batts might be reasonable. I am a novice at this. I just see some advantages in the focused beam of the Inovas. The fact that others are keen on them makes me hesitate. If the cost of a T1 plus shipping plus a set of rechargeables get me just about the same as a Fenix, for example, does it make sense to chose something other than the T1? Again, I wish I could check these out on my own, but I went yesterday to ten different stores looking for lights, and found a Dourcy and some Eddie Bauer V2 light with N batts. I also sawy the Nite Ize, but it was $10 at EMS, and I couldn't get it knowing it is half that at Wal-Mart. Principle you know!


----------



## cratz2 (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Well, the L1P certainly puts out radically more light than any 1xAAA alkaline incandescent I've ever seen. According to Fenix, the L2P isn't any brighter than the L1P v2.5 but depending on the regulation, it may be slightly brighter. Basically, the L2P is supposed to be current regulated rather than just voltage boosted like the L1P so it should stay exactly as bright from the first minute, until it falls out of regulation... and I would hope it will give more runtime.

While the L1P should definately be easier to carry in pocket, some might feel that the L2P will be easier to control and balance and hold in a wider variety of positions... not sure if this will apply to you.

I had two Streamlights a while back, not sure if they get better Luxes now days but the Fenix lights get almost the best available... at least they get the best ones widely available. I don't think I've ever seen a Luxeon Jr that was as bright as the dimmest Fenix I've seen.

I will repeat though... the Fenix is very bright... as far as shining off of reflective surfaces such as teeth... If you've never dealt with a good Lux I, you might be shocked. They can be very bright!


----------



## liteboy (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

I edc the HDS EDC 60XRGT with a holster and use it for examining eyes and oral cavity daily. The multiple levels helps to avoid blinding my patients. However, for your application, the cost would be prohibitive at present. As I was reading this thread, I took out the Fenix L1P and agree with others here that it is a great all-purpose light. white beam, focused, yet with good side spill and runs for hours on easy to find AA batteries. Its such a cool light that I take it out to turn it on for no other apparent reason. Other than the Inova X1, which will not work for your purpose, I dont know about the other models like the T1 although I am certainly interested (lighthound.com has them on sale I think). However, I must say that since getting the HDS light, I have been so content that I have much less of an urge to buy new lights.


----------



## TORCH_BOY (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

My doctor still uses a 2 AA [email protected] l


----------



## Hookd_On_Photons (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Thread about the Nite-Ize Minimag dropin here (with beamshots, and mention of the Snow29 LED):

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=94367&page=1

liteboy has given another thumbs up for the Fenix (and HDS EDC). His recommendation has more credibility than mine, since he actually uses his lights to examine the eyes and oral cavity. I'm an orthopaedic surgeon who specializes in hand surgery, so I (thankfully) don't have to go lighting up dark crevices and cavities very often (unless you count deep gunshot and stab wounds, and exploring those is really a combination of retraction and surface illumination). As I said, I use my lightsfor surface illumination (making rounds in dark rooms) and to backlight radiographs if there's no lightbox around. For procedures in the ER, I use their crappy incandescent procedure light combined with a Princeton Tec Eos.

The Fenix, SL Jr. Luxeon, and other LuxI lights are going to smoke the Peak Matterhorn and Kilimanjaro for overall output and throw. However, at your working range (2 feet or less), the Peak lights will be adequate. Since the Peak lights don't have a reflector, they will not concentrate the light output well but the additional emitters compensate for that. The Peak lights also overdrive their LEDs for increased output (at the expense of an increased rate of degradation of the LEDs - that's why I'd recommend Hi-Power over Ultra-Power). The Nite-Eyez dropin lacks a reflector as well, so that should give you a rough approximation of the beam quality of the 3-LED Matterhorn.

Now that I think about it, the Peak Kilimanjaro with 7 LEDs *might* be the way to go, if you want a light that uses an AA battery but you don't want a Fenix for whatever reason (prefer twisty to switch activation, etc).

Stay away from the Eddie Bauer/Coast lights. They're not terrible, but they're generally not a good value from a flashaholic's viewpoint. (Uncommon batteries, poor waterproofing, unregulated, etc.)

Fenix L1P available through 4sevens' groupbuy here:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96886

...or from LITEmania here:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96617

I've ordered from both before, and recommend them both highly.


----------



## Timson (Dec 5, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Beam shot to give you an idea of what to expect with a Fenix L1P or L2P versus AAA Mag ( Not an AA Mag - I know, But it gives you the idea)

This is at 2 feet from the wall (Please excuse dated wallpaper)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-9/1074875/FenixVAAA(1).JPG 

Tim


----------



## Blades (Dec 6, 2005)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Justin,
Welcome to CPF!!!
I have a Inova T1, and a Fenix L1P. 
I don't think the T1 can take a R123, I may be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that it wasn't recommend. But the T1 does throw a tight beam, I am happy with mine. I bought my batteries from Battery Station, about $1.00 each in bulk(12 or more). I just finally replaced my battery after a long time of use. It was starting to flicker alittle, but after a year of use, and probably 3+ hours of use, it was time for a new battery.
The L1P also throws a tight beam, and it does take rechargeable batteries. If you have an easy access to AA batts, this might be the light for you. It is small, bright, has a good runtime, will fit in my "nite-eyes" head band(bought it at Wal-Mart), if I put my clip from my CMG Infinity on it, then I can clip it to a hat or collar. I bet the clip from a AA mini-Mag light would fit on it also.
Both are nice lights, but I don't know how well they will fill your needs. I think the L1P might be the better choice, because of the AA's. Let us know what you decide.



Blades


----------



## colubrid (Dec 27, 2005)

*which light for a nurse?*

my wife has been in the nursing field for 12 years and is graduating from nursing school with her RN this May. I want to get her a light which she can use for neuro checks. She can't use something to strong or bright (my idea :devil so I was thinking of the ARC Premeium or Nano. Any suggestions?


----------



## Greg (Dec 27, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

If all she needs it for is pupillary response or to check on patients or chart at night, then I think that would be sufficient if attached to a lanyard or something similar. If she needs to maintain colour retention to check the patients colour, etc. then that may not be the best choice. I do remember a discussion about this a while ago and they found some sort of 2 AAA luxeon light that supposedly was very good. I am sure someone will remember something about this and let you know.

Greg


----------



## Flash_Gordon (Dec 27, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

I don't know what a neuro check is, but I do have some experience getting lights for friends in the medical field.

One thing that has been a constant is the ability for one handed operation. This has meant a side button or tail clickie of some sort. I don't think the head twisty of an ARC or similar light will do. They wear gloves and frequently have only one free hand when the light is needed.

This is one reason you will still see so many doctors using a basic tail button penlight.

Congrats to your wife.

Mark


----------



## pr5owner (Dec 27, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

Inova X1, uses cheap AA batteries, not very bright but bright nuff to work with, (wont blind people permanently)


----------



## bonvivantmike (Dec 27, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

I'm an EMT, and I use a Streamlight Stylus for checking pupil responses. It works well for me. And it would fit well in the pocket on a scrub shirt. The only downside is that the white LED has a strong blue tint to it. It won't work for tasks requiring accurate color rendition.


----------



## hquan (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

You may not want to get her anything too $$$. If you do spend $$, definitely want it to be waterproof. Depending on what unit she works on, she may be in contact with a lot of bodily fluids - so she may need to sanitize the light - or throw it away if it's too gross.:sick2:

Also, lots of times, drug reps have freebie pen lights that they give to the various floors...

Perhaps a nice light to walk to the car would be good alternative? I assume that she'll be working 12 hour shifts...


----------



## testmonket (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

Here is a thread discussing medical lights:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=100122

My $0.02... I'm also an EMT and have been looking around quite a bit for a higher tech penlight. I've finally come to the conclusion that I should just save my money for something else and use the disposable kind. 

Color rendition of tissue is still pretty poor with LEDs. Even some of the "better" LEDs (eg. snow29, luxeons) are too variable and don't emit a broad enough spectrum. I've been playing around with the snow LEDs and -- although they're nice -- don't seem to have enough red/yellow emission for tissue representation. To me they still look too blue.

That said, the best I could come up with is the new Peak Fujiyama 2xAAA with the snow LEDs. Also Welch Allyn makes a halogen penlight for about $40. I don't know anyone who has used it.
http://www.allheart.com/wa76600.html

Here's one more thread on why LED penlights just haven't caught on.

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=91523

Good luck.


----------



## TORCH_BOY (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

Fenix L2P


----------



## LeDfLaShEr (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

I worked as an ER nurse for 16 years before going to my current field. I truthfully never had a real need for a flashlight for in-hospital use other than the freebie penlights from the drug reps.

First things first- nurses lose everything, that's why they never seem to have a pen even though they are free.

Secondly- there are tons of lights in the average hospital....overhead lights, exam lights, oto/opthalmoscope lights....etc....Generally there is too much light.

Third- The hospital is a dirty gross place. Same reason I always used disposable pens, I used disposable lights. Nothing like bringing home a light that was just recently covered in vomit, blood, and feces- yummy.

And Lastly- The main things you'll be using a light for is either checking pupils, or sneaking into a darkened patient room when their lights are off to check on them. For either purpose you'll want a dim light that wont either blind or awaken them.

The best light you can buy a nurse is one for use when they walk from the hospital out to their car in the darkened parking garage. If she's a new nurse, she'll be working nights so a good light for out-of-hospital usage would be a good buy.

I recently bought my wife, a nurse, a light to get her out to the car in the dark. I chose a single cell RCR123 3 Watt luxeon no-name light from one of the chinese sellers on CPF. It's a very small light that will fit in her purse (she commented that it looked like a lipstick container), I have tons of rechargables (not that she'll use it much), it puts out quite a bit of light, and for $30 including the charger and two batteries I won't cry if she loses it.


----------



## coldsolderjoint (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*



testmonket said:


> My $0.02... I'm also an EMT and have been looking around quite a bit for a higher tech penlight. I've finally come to the conclusion that I should just save my money for something else and use the disposable kind.



Hey, ill jump on the bandwagon and for an EMT, the stylus is really nice, I was using one for over 2 years, and it started having contact problems so I bought one in each color, one for regular use, one to keep in my bag, and one to keep in my second due jumpsuit. and just recently bought one for my sister who just completed emt class. 

I absolutley hate those plastic penlights. They never work when you need them to as the batteries die all the time, and the clip sucks and breaks off. 

I have a part time job at an steel mill where I dont do anything except play with my laptop, as very luckily, its a quiet place, I wear jeans for the partial resistance to sparks, and dont like to fill up my pockets, so I keep THREE of those pen lights in the first aid bag. And I check each one at the begining of every shift I work there. 

I'll agree that the stylus is a bit bright for checking pupils, but it gets the job done. Ive seen medics use a stock mini mag for the job. That just seems a bit silly IMO. Of course that wouldnt work very well with my EDC mini mag (hehe). 

I recently noticed that RadioShack is carrying the stylus now. The tube is screen printed with "radioshack" but the clip says "streamlight" right on it. They also sell the AAAA batteries that are branded for the streamlight stylus. 

I noticed that on one of my stylus's there was two o rings in the place of one, preventing smooth twisting. Removed one, and it was fine. The other issue I had is the contact problems with the first one. I havent had the time to take it apart and mess with it. 

So theres my two cent's on the subject.


----------



## cratz2 (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

I'm not sure what all they use them for, but I've modded a lot of lights for nurses over the last year and a half or so. Mostly Minimags or minimag clones by quest using 26k and 35k LEDs. I also drill out the reflector and sputter it. I've done one Snow 29 recently which I also sanded the LED gently in addition the the stuff I've always done but in general, I just recommend the River Rock 2xAAA light nowdays as the entire light costs less than what I charge to mod the $8-$10 light.

Most nurses I know, including ones that make pretty big money, have very little interest in spending much over about $20 on a flashlight and even then, the biggest draw seems to be that with the LEDs, the bulbs don't blow when dropped and the batteries last longer. Not one of them mentioned anything about wanting/needing anything brighter than a stock Minimag.

My suggestion would be either the River Rock 2xAAA light or a 2xAAA Minimag with either an MJLED or a 35k LED very lightly sanded.


----------



## dougmccoy (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

I'm a Brit Paramedic and my other half is training to be a midwife. I have over the past 20 odd years used most types of penlights and small lights for neuro obs etc., and can recant from personal experience some of the problems that some types of light present.

Most nurses I know of won't spend their hard earned money unnecessarily on things which will be lost or stolen. 

Accordingly they usually don't like anything fussy, complicated or which uses batteries that aren't commonly available.

Anything which is not rugged and ''nurse proof'' isn't worth a damn to them.

It should preferably have a clip and be able to use a lanyard. (Although not something that cant be sanitised!)

IMO something ultra simple like a Minimag AAA with a MJLED is ideal. I've used this combo for quite some while now and find it ideal. It accepts easily found batteries, it is easily cleaned and decontaminated and it is reliable. Further because it's cheap most folks aren't too upset if it gets lost or stolen. Further, most nurses like girly colours (apologies to you male nurses out there) which Mags come in.

Doug


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## rikvee (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

No medical experience here; but I have had the chance to compare a lot of low power lights in my quest for a light that offers minimal disturbance to a sleeping partner (I often finish work 2am or worse).

A 200mA Luxeon pill for a 1AA MiniMag is already too bright, so it's down to 5mm leds like the 26k, the 33k and the (S)MJLED. Now the MJLEDs are the whitest and brightest, but...I found that the 26k is the most appropriate, with Scotch tape over the inside of the lens to even out beam artifacts.

This light DOES get beaten in every department by a Surefire L1 with an F04 beamshaper, (on this light a unique tight but even flood), but the cost ratio is 1 :10 !!!

So I'm with cratz2 and dougmccoy above: a 26K LED, inside a cheap 2AA or 2AAA light is definitely appropriate for checking on (sleeping) patients while disturbing others minimally.

If you use a Mag there's the pretty colors aspect, I add a 0.542 OD split ring and a 20mm McGizmo Nano clip from the Sandwich Shoppe, that makes it easy to clip on and off a lanyard.

An F04 beamshaper, which fits the 2AA MiniMag, would double the cost of the light, but it IS the nicest way to even out a beam, protect the bezel, and, it makes it easier to operate the light with one hand!


----------



## a99raptors (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

I am also in the medical line.

In my experience, she should use a light that has no false colour (especially LEDs). Although blue lights up blood vessels well, during the primary survey, you want an accurate picture of wounds and the like. 

Believe it or not, the G2 )) CAN be used to check pupillary responses! The only problem with ANY light is that if shone directly into the pupil, it WILL blind! (speaking from personal experience.....) but if you shine it just towards the pupil from the peripheries, then it will be just nice. The same goes for even the 2 cell AAA mini maglite.

If you do get an LED, get one that is as white as possible, maybe around 10 lumens, cheap, replaceable (because blood and what not will get into it, and during trauma, doctors who are too cheap....I mean busy to buy good lights will be asking for it) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, RELIABLE AS HELL!!! Like NASA, doctors or nurses should double up and back up everything. Also, try to avoid switches like the maglite twisties. Get a click type of switch.

Currently, for pupillary reaction checks, I use a keychain type of LED, but I find myself just reaching for my U2 and setting it to the lowest level. The U2 also comes in handy! I have used the various settings for various tools: helping deliver a baby, providing light when the doctor was suturing a head wound, and identifying an embedded shrapnel in a head hound (when the yellowish yucky tint in the doctor's 2 C cell flashlight couldn't do the job).

remember to shine from the sides, OK? Do not shine ANY light directly into the pupils!

Hope this helps!


----------



## CLHC (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

SureFire L1 Lumamax would be one consideration.


----------



## firefly99 (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*



CHC said:


> SureFire L1 Lumamax would be one consideration.



Agreed.


----------



## jclarksnakes (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: which light for a nurse?*

....I am a nurse. I do two or three 12 hour night shifts every other week on an orthopedic floor. For years I used minimags but did not like that they are too big for easy pocket carry. My main reason for using them was that they were reliable. 
....I did not post earlier on this thread because I have just recently become a flashaholic and had been trying to figure out what light to use at work. I have recently been using the River Rock 2AAA. This light provides just about the ideal amount of light. It is too bright to shine directly in someone's eyes but for pupillary response checks I shine it at an angle away from the pupil (as was previously posted by someone here) and that works fine. The size is just right for pocket carry. It also has a clip for people who want to use that. It is cheap enough that I do not have to worry about it being _misplaced_. I thoroughly wash it with soap and water or alcohol based foam hand cleaner often. It stands up to those cleanings with no problems. It has a nice reliable tactical twisty tail switch. It has a very long runtime on alkaline or rechargeable NIMH batteries. IMO this is the ideal light for a night nurse. My Arc AAA-P would be ideal except that it is too valuable to not worry about losing and with the open head is harder to clean. My small 1 watt Luxeon lights are too bright for use around sleeping patients and again the lights are too valuable to risk losing. The disposable penlights and most of the cheap lights have too high a failure rate for me to like them. 
jc


----------



## justin (Feb 5, 2006)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

I haven't posted in a while. Been busy. But, I thought I would make an update.

I bought an L2P, a Nite-Ize drop in for the 2AA mag and an X1. Oh, and a Photon Freedom Max for the key chain. Great little light that comes in handy, but was not bought for medical reasons.

L2P is excellent. I love its white light and brightness. 

However, I have to say that for what I do, the X1 is great. Almost perfect. It is small and unobtrusive. It fits in a pocket well. The L2P is just a bit too big to be hidden in a pocket. The X1 has a tight beam so it shines just where I want it: a patient's mouth, neck or otherwise. I don't blind them with sidespill, and I don't blind myself with too much reflection off teeth or metal equipment when I just want to see the tongue. I put it in a Nite Ize headband and I can shine it handsfree so I can work with both hands. It has plenty of light for 18 inches away. 

I only with they had an X1P, or something like a Fenix upgrade, with a whiter LED. It is slightly blue. It is not a significant detriment, but a little whiter would be excellent. I assume a slightly whiter light might appear slightly brighter overall, which would be great. Slightly brighter and whiter would make this perfect.

Plus, AAs are easy to find around the hospital. 

And, at $17 delivered, I don't have to worry about it (too much) disappearing from my pocket. 
I love the L2P, and will keep it in my bag. It provides a lot of benefits. However, for the daily grind, the X1 is truly excellent. 

I wish Inova would make a slightly better binned X1. I would be their beta tester and spokesperson. After I owned it for 1 day, I already had a coworker ordering one. 

I would love a T1, but it is bigger, not as tight and uses a 123. It just doesn't have utility I like in the X1. 

So, sure, it's not a great light for everything. It is awesome for medical purposes.

Oh, I think the Nite Ize drop in is useless.

Question for anyone who has read this far.

What lights are there out there in any make or design tnat have a tight spot, meaning as tight as the X1? I would love to try them.


----------



## offroadcmpr (Feb 5, 2006)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

I'm not sure if there are any luxeon lights that use that type of lens. Most of the lights use a 5mm led, which is much bluer. There is the river rock 2AA I think from target. The 2C also has the same beam. The riverrocks are a little brighter, but it may have more of a blue beam.

The priceton tec impact 2 found http://www.brightguy.com/detail_int.php?Sku=PRIIMP2NY is also a good light. review here http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/princetontec_impact2.htm
or the UK 2AAA eLED. review here http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/uk_2aaa_eled.htm

here is the aurora 2AA light. http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/aurora_alj-012aa.htm it is probably the brightest out of all of these. (I'm not positive, but it may be the same thing as the RR 2AA)

there is a review of this light http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/j2_al-91aa.htm that is similar to the X1, but the X1 probably has better build quality.

It may be possible to get someone to mod a X1 or impact2 with a snow29 led that peak uses. The snow LED is considered the whitest 5mm led out there.


----------



## justin (Feb 5, 2006)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Does anyone know how to mod an X1 with a snow29?

BTW, where can you get a snow 29?


----------



## carrot (Feb 5, 2006)

*Re: medical light recommendations*



justin said:


> Does anyone know how to mod an X1 with a snow29?


https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/52043


----------



## Optic Nerve (Feb 5, 2006)

*Re: medical light recommendations*

Hi Justin,
I have read some of the posts, and I thought I would give you my two cents worth. I am an emergency room physician, and I try to use Led lights to look at human tissue in a range from throats, eyes, skin, and lacerated tissue. The problem with led lights is rendition. Somehow, when I shine a led light on tissue, I have a difficult time differentiating the suttle variations of color on the tissue. On the other hand if I use an incandecent light, my rendition of the suttle variations is much better. For example, when I look at a throat and I see pus on the tonsils, it is much harder to notice the pus with the led light. If you are going to use a led light, try to get one that is more towards the yellow color like an incandecent. Thats my 2 cents. 
Good Luck and welcome to CPF.


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## John N (Feb 5, 2006)

*Re: medical light recommendations*



yaesumofo said:


> HDS EDC GT.



Yah, a EDC Basic 42 GT with a Surefire F04 beamshaper was the first thing that jumped into my mind. But it is a bit out of the price range being considered.

The GT should provide a slightly "warm" rendition and since it is guaranteed, you don't have to worry about the lottery.

While I'm not in the medical field, I think the only reasonable way to get reasonable lighting close up with with a diffuser like the F04.

-john


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## dandruff (Aug 16, 2007)

Hi guys

My girlfriend is a medical student and she recently bought one of the standard penlights at a medical fair.

To my flashaholic eyes, the penlight was horrible. It was so cheap and plasticky and the beam was incredibly yellow. Im pretty sure it wouldnt be regulated (haha) and would probably have a declining output.

when i told her this she was like "why dont u ask your crazy flashlight guys for advice". so here i am

so, are there any decent penlights out there to recommend? does the beam have to be so yellow for any special reason (for colour rendition when staring down people's throats? she doesnt know anything about this), wouldnt a nice, regulated led be better? any doctors out there care to chime in?

i know that a doctor's penlight is hardly a demanding use of a flashlight, but we are flashaholics after all right? haha couldnt resist asking


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## FredM (Aug 16, 2007)

Don't get a super powerful incan and burn out peoples eyes. Also it might make their throats get warm.


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## barkingmad (Aug 16, 2007)

Streamlight do various 'Stylus' or 'Stylus Reach' that use LED's - only downside I can is they take AAAA's - would have probably been better to use AAA's.

Or a Fenix L0D-CE - maybe a bit short?

Or a Liteflux LF2 and have it come on fairly low by default (probably bright enough) - but might still be too short?


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## quokked (Aug 16, 2007)

Streamlight stylus using the two AAA battieries could be what you are after
http://www.streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=133

Streamlight lights are great value for money lights  
U could also go the Minimag LED 

Or the Inova X1, the new model with the rebel should be bright enough!


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## LEDninja (Aug 16, 2007)

Peak Fujiyama Stainless Steel 1 LED

Do NOT get too bright a light. Do NOT want to damage a patient's eyes!

The Minimag LED  is too big. Need the AAA Minimag (stock or with the TLE-20  LED upgrade.)


quokked said:


> U could also go the Minimag LED


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## Flying Turtle (Aug 16, 2007)

There's always the cheapo Energizer ($6) from Target or the Rayovac ($3) from WalMart. For a bit more Gerber has one called the "Foreman". Don't have one, but it's probably brighter than the other two. Here's a link to the Gerber. http://www.brightguy.com/products/Gerber_Foreman_Task_Light.php

Geoff


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## TITAN1833 (Aug 16, 2007)

you could search ebay there are lots of pen lights there.but i like the streamlight stylus reach series the best. tail cap button for momentary on off or twist tail cap for constant on.very good quality.batt size E96 AAAA.


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## GarageBoy (Aug 16, 2007)

UK 2AAA in incan is great


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## sween1911 (Aug 16, 2007)

I'm going to throw out a very un-flashaholic response, but I say get a case of the disposable sealed jobbies, perhaps just as backup to your personal light. 

Reason being, in the medical profession, you'll be exposed to body fluids containing all sorts of Lord-knows-what. Better to throw out a light after a questionable encounter than unknowingly carry around a contaminated light.

Plus, they'll always be that "Hey can I borrow your light?" person.


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## LA OZ (Aug 16, 2007)

Get her a decent LED light such as the L0D CE. Since she is a girl she can wear that like a necklace. Tell her not to shine the torch directly into patient's eye but rather at an angle of at least 45 degrees. She can use it directly on everything other than the eyes and she will thanks you for it. The Led is very good in looking at throat etc.. Although the colour rendition is different but very quickly she will get use to that and she won't go back using incan.


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## Kiessling (Aug 16, 2007)

I am using a SF L2 for this ... low mode only. Reason is ... te dirt and fluids. I would either go with something disposable or something sealed from the environment and easy to clean.
I had a Stylus, but it was too blue and too dim. Might be better with the new LEDs now though.

Back then in the old days, Chief_Xiggum offered me a handcrafted penlight I used for auite some time ... but it is too precious for me now. I just cannot bring mysemf to use it any more.








bernie


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## meuge (Aug 16, 2007)

LA OZ said:


> Get her a decent LED light such as the L0D CE. Since she is a girl she can wear that like a necklace. Tell her not to shine the torch directly into patient's eye but rather at an angle of at least 45 degrees. She can use it directly on everything other than the eyes and she will thanks you for it. The Led is very good in looking at throat etc.. Although the colour rendition is different but very quickly she will get use to that and she won't go back using incan.



I have tried using LEDs for ENT exams, but the color differences really throw me off. Plus, the lights are generally too bright, so they wind up shining through the thin skin and highlighting the vessels underneath, giving a false impression of inflammation. 

I guess I could get used to it, if I used an LED for awhile (LOD-CE with Rebel that has a warm tint would be nice, since it could be set on Low), but for now the penlight will have to do. 

Oh how I wish LEDs would come in ~5000K...


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## Grox (Aug 16, 2007)

I have thought about this problem in my own situation and decided against getting even an inexpensive light for the following reasons:

1. Sanitation - you need something you can use and throw. If you are around long enough you will eventually get someone's fluids onto your light. Especially if you are looking into mouths. If you transilluminate (hydrocoeles especially) with the same light you will not look at it the same way again.
2. It is far easier to have something that you can put down and lose and not worry too much. Especially in a busy emergency department people often ask to borrow your items; in emergencies there are higher priorities than remembering where your penlight is. Especially if that item has sentimental attachment - as yours no doubt will, having been a gift.
3. Too bright can be a handicap. People often do not like even the normal brightness of the standard penlights because they are shone directly into eyes. Too much spill can be annoying and clinically misleading in the context of trying to assess pupillary reflexes.
4. I sometimes find that is hard to make out what colours you are seeing (eg in a throat) with an LED although this is highly dependent on the LED you choose. 
5. Sometimes I don't want to draw attention to myself too much, and a unique penlight might just do that.

By all means get a decent penlight but don't go over the top. Things to look for in my opinion are easily replaceable bulb(s)/good colour temperature LED(s), commonly found batteries, good quality metal/plastic body, good threads, nice smooth beam and durable switch.


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## interpol (Aug 16, 2007)

I'm a MD, and I just use whatever's mounted on the wall (otoscope, ophthalmoscope), or whatever's given to me for free by drug reps. There is simply no need for a fancy penlight when doing a physical examination. The time spent shining a light into a patient's eyes or throat makes up less than 1% of the time you spend practicing medicine - and besides, there really is no need for super precision when shining a light into one's throat. There are microscopes and other specialized scopes for that, with their own light sources. And as others have pointed out, LED tints/colors aren't the best for looking at the pink/red mucosa of a patient's throat.

Medical students tend to go overboard with their equipment anyway. Back in my medical school days we all carried fancy expensive stethoscopes, AA MiniMags, high-quality reflex hammers, etc. Now everything I use is cheap and disposable.


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## FILIPPO (Aug 16, 2007)

you may need to see this thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1892571#post1892571 :nana:


seriusly: +1 to LEDninja's suggestion!


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## GarageBoy (Aug 16, 2007)

Again, UK2AAA incan- $10, standard penlight form, tough. (I thought you were EMT at first)


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## fudo (Aug 16, 2007)

I've been a nurse for 26 years. I like the Pelican VB3 to enter a patient's room to check IV's and such, and I use an Inova X1 to do eye exams. I use partially depleted batteries that I take out of other equipment in it so the light is not too bright.


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## Marduke (Aug 16, 2007)

I would second the disposable option. However, I would stay away from twisties in favor for ones with momentary on. Personally, I would consider some of the fauxtons from DX. Hard to beat $.47 each. If you want to dim them down a bit, replace the 2x2016's with 1x2032 battery. Better runtime, just a bit dimmer. These things have some of the whitest tint for any 5mm LED I've seen.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1100
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.751

Or in bulk:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3261


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## Chief-Yeah (Aug 16, 2007)

the model used by most physicians is a Welch-Allyn *" halogen"* penlight for true tissue color rendition to avoid the tint that LED penlights give off.They're a little pricey but well very well made and well worth the money imho.I just purchased one from here : http://www.steeles.com/welchallyn/WA_penlite.html and they have great customer service.I've also seen them on EBay every once in a while,hope this helps.


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## fluke (Aug 16, 2007)

quokked said:


> Streamlight stylus using the two AAA battieries could be what you are after
> http://www.streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=133
> 
> Streamlight lights are great value for money lights



Is that Steamlight Stylus Pro a River Rock/Nuwai Clone ???


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## discohero (Aug 16, 2007)

I got this lumens factory penlight for my GF who is a pediatrician.

http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2854

It's fairly cheap at $3 and is incan for good color rendition, also uses easy to find AAA batts. She says the 12 lumens is not too bright for the kids so it will likely be fine for adults and it cleans off nicely with an alcohol pad after accidents. She also said it works great for looking into throats and other places for examinations. Another option to get the light for FREE, is to order $30 from the lumens factory website directly (they give 20% CPF discount anyway) and they send you a free penlight. (see link below)

http://www.lumensfactory.com/news.php :twothumbs


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## BentHeadTX (Aug 16, 2007)

I work in a hospital and my 1 watt power level Luxeon Peak Baltic stainless 2AAA is waaaay too bright! (I look in equipment, not people) It is a durable, stainless steel light that is regulated but will burn retinas. :rock: Maybe the single AAA Baltic stainless in "extended long runtime" power level with SSC P4 U LED and optional momentary switch could work. Most likely too bright for retina checks but would work well for throats and everything else. The Peak Fujiyama single LED 2AAA stainless with momentary switch and pocket clip might be OK for eyes.


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## Sigman (Aug 16, 2007)

Merged like threads - there's probably more around these halls! Anyone finds them - post the link here & I'll merge them as well. 
:thanks:


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## carrot (Aug 16, 2007)

fluke said:


> Is that Steamlight Stylus Pro a River Rock/Nuwai Clone ???


I'm not sure that I'd call it a clone... just because it is metal and has a similar form-factor... I'd call it a possible improvement on their other, 3xAAAA Stylus.


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## fluke (Aug 16, 2007)

carrot said:


> I'm not sure that I'd call it a clone... just because it is metal and has a similar form-factor... I'd call it a possible improvement on their other, 3xAAAA Stylus.



I was just going by the pocket clip, I got a couple of the Nuwai 0.5 watt 2 AAA lights for $12 the pair, but they are a touch blue, and are way to bright for shining in peoples eyes.


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## GregWormald (Aug 17, 2007)

90% of the doctors I work with use the freebies from the drug companies. At least the price is right.
Greg


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## LA OZ (Aug 18, 2007)

I received a freebie LED penlight a few months back. It has twice the brightness as the incan but blue tint. I am not sure where I have placed it though. That mean there are cheap LED penlights out there for sell.


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## VidPro (Aug 18, 2007)

only because nobody mentioned it, what i would want for ONLY that one task of peering down a throat with a mirror , way back in the deep dark resseses like that, would be parabolic mirror (as shown) very tight optics, Zoom, aspherical, or a very tight Inova style (but inovas are often bluish).
Here is why.
when you have to view way the frick back down a tube or something, and its all dark inside , most lights will iluminate EVERYTHING so strongly you cant get the dang light to go just down the tube.
for that you really do need a laser  well not a real laser, but parabolic , or tight optics, asphericals, will shoot light out without flooding the area, blowing your ability to see down the dark caverns. 

i would avoid a light with a reflector, lean towards optics, even optics on 5mm leds, i would use an aspherical focusable, if it was 5mm leds i would use a good 8* nichita, instead of any blue junk. with high power i would go with a lux3, lo-moon, or nichita .5w to avoid patterns when tight focused and the lux and lomoon can be warmer. or a warm rebel 80 , not the rebel100.

if i made an instrument specifically for that ONE purpose, it would have a 2inch beam at 1 foot , with NO spill, of warm led (least) or incadescent light. and it would be positioned very close to the eye.

then it would want to have a "covert" type of cover, where the light itself was not seen by the user.

a focusable aspherical, with 3-5 brightness levels, warm 3W luxeon, and covert hood
some mechanism to have it move around my face/head lamp style, seperate battery pack.
because trying to get the stupid light to hit the mirror and land where your viewing, WHILE your eye is looking down that SAME mirror, is near impossible, that is why they use in hole see through parabolic mirrors.
(i get the same issue when using a small mirror to see car engine stuff without dissasembly)

another view-through light assembly that would be parabolic similar, is the "ring" lights they use for close up work with cameras, the "ring" of 5mm leds goes around the lens, so the light is not offset from the view.

here is an example of a ringlight
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160145678057
(link only for purpose of picture example, you would really want less flood than they use)

a 3/4 ring, with tight spot 5mm leds say 8 of them, with levels, then put black pastic tubes (heat shrink say) over the leds (covert), then pot the assembly in acrylic epoxy, so it can be cleaned. keep it lightweight. then have a carbon swing arm, with 2 pivots and lockdowns, hang from a 3 strap head band. that oughta do it.


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