# Thermal grease. Diamond Vs as5/ceramique



## orionlion82 (Jun 29, 2007)

i was reading http://www.overclockers.com/ like i do every morning.... 

and the june 26 07 article mentions a product containing diamond here: http://www.innovationcooling.com/testing.htm

it is sold through a longtime sponsor of the overclockers.com website 
Here: http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=16605&cat=104&page=1

and the article itself looks alot like one from overclockers.com. 

does it fit the flashlight world? anyone tried it? 
theres not much information on it that i can find.

the only hard data i can find in its performance is that its non-conductive, and non-capacitive, and makes a "nice" polishing compound. 
the rest is mostly marketing. 
anyone have any thoughts?


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## chesterqw (Jun 29, 2007)

if it really is better, it can be used in flashlight too


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## MorePower (Jun 29, 2007)

Here's an article you may want to check out which gives some insight into how small of a difference there is between the various options.

http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm

In addition to thermal grease, he tests toothpaste and Vegemite.


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## orionlion82 (Jun 29, 2007)

MorePower said:


> Here's an article you may want to check out which gives some insight into how small of a difference there is between the various options.
> 
> http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm
> 
> In addition to thermal grease, he tests toothpaste and Vegemite.



Hah, i think ive read that article back in the day. there were a few like it. 
ive even used a couple of the not so standard ones in a pinch with mixed results. (where did i put my ceramique?!?!? its so tiny and easy to loose)

so its not that impressive ? 
the numbers (c/w) look amazing, but if it were that great we would have heard about it and it would be all sorts of sold out, no?


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## orionlion82 (Jun 30, 2007)

Okay, Okay, the testing has begun! 

feel free to follow along here as it is put to the test: 


http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=517055

pay special attention to any posts that crop up from the man with all the green stars known as silversinksam. hes got a very special kind of madness about "no bs" and has a bit of a history with putting thermal pastes to the test. 

(disclosure: i am a member of OCforums)


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## McGizmo (Jun 30, 2007)

Hi guys,
I played with diamond "bog" a few years ago. I never did any real tests to see if it made a difference beyond _looking good on paper_. The one application that made sense to me and I even posted looking for ideas to no avail was that od using various diamond grit as the matrix of a LED bond to sink that also isolated the LED electrically. I was after a medium for suspending the diamond grit as well as bonding it that wasn't two part or short shelf life due to the expense of the material. I used some clear acrylic nail polish but I had no idea what its thermal contribution was and the diamond would settle and need to be stirred prior to application.

Lately I have been thinking about mixing some of the diamond grit in with some solder paste and wondering what happens when solder flows around some microscopic diamond boulders. Frankly, with the advent of more efficient LED's I think the thermal demands have been relaxed in most _reasonable_ cases.


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## Tritium (Jul 20, 2007)

McGizmo said:


> Hi guys,
> I played with diamond "bog" a few years ago. I never did any real tests to see if it made a difference beyond _looking good on paper_. The one application that made sense to me and I even posted looking for ideas to no avail was that od using various diamond grit as the matrix of a LED bond to sink that also isolated the LED electrically. I was after a medium for suspending the diamond grit as well as bonding it that wasn't two part or short shelf life due to the expense of the material. I used some clear acrylic nail polish but I had no idea what its thermal contribution was and the diamond would settle and need to be stirred prior to application.
> 
> Lately I have been thinking about mixing some of the diamond grit in with some solder paste and wondering what happens when solder flows around some microscopic diamond boulders. Frankly, with the advent of more efficient LED's I think the thermal demands have been relaxed in most _reasonable_ cases.




If the diamond bort particles are big enough then the effect should be "diamond vias". Solder is used to "dop" diamonds for grinding and faceting.

Thurmond


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## orionlion82 (Jul 20, 2007)

i had a feeling it was joeC who was behind it. 
i knew the website looked fimilliar.
i had included this as speculation in my first post, but later took it out. 

wonder why that wasnt disclosed...
anyways, i do trust that in spite of that theres nothing shady about it.


you can read straight from the horses mouth about the trade off's. 
the thread i had linked above has progressed. 

it looks to be shaping up to be an AS5 equivalent, or at least in that ballpark. 
priced generally the same. 
looks like it is more difficult to work with from initial reports.


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## orionlion82 (Sep 7, 2007)

little update. 

Guess what? 
no really. 
SilverSinkSam tested THIS PASTE ON A FLASHLIGHT while i wasnt paying attention. 
hes an evil genoius, difficult and miserable and the best kind of crazy.
so am i.
(hes bound to be one of the coolest grumpy old farts on here somewhere) 
(i think i mentioned this before, now? dunno) 

its some sort of DX ultrafire cree with this stuff on the threads. 
(diamond on aluminum? yikes! long term tests?) 

would any of yall like to have a look at this? 
(single post link of a thread on a site i mentioned earlier...) 

http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=5218653&postcount=147

that made me sit up and take notice tonight. 

and here we are from the beggining: 
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=517055

in all it seems to prove equal for moving heat and better or worse for specific applications due to its challenges in putting the stuff on.


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## Bushman5 (Sep 14, 2007)

dont forget to "lap" the heatsink surface (where the leds attach), on a sheet of glass with 2000 - 6000 grit wet/dry paper. Lapping will make the CONTACT surface perfectly flat, for better heat transfer. Add your heat sink past and you will see temp readings drop.


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## silversinksam (Sep 22, 2007)

orionlion82 said:


> little update.
> 
> Guess what?
> no really.
> ...


 
No need to hunt me down, been reading these forums for many moons, I decided to register so I could post about a month ago. Colin the mad junior scientist from Arctic Silver inc told me about this site years ago, just took me awhile to register. While I'm not a flashaholic like some, having a few good flashlights is what one must have, I've just been tinkering with improving the cooling on any flashlight I come across. Surefires are one that need no help from me, as they do it right, from my testing, they use some sort of refined custom made silver thermal paste (Exactly what the custom product is, I can't say for absolute certainty as it's probably a secret formula made by Arctic Silver, but it's a good TIM they use, so I don't bother messing with my Surefires cooling, but I bought a bunch of DX and Kai lights and they needed improvement to the cooling and other mods to make them decent. Then I give them to friends after they are modded some.

PS, The Seven Carat Diamond is a decent high performance TIM, it's non capacitive and non conductive properties make it a good thermal paste for Flashaholic use. Much like Ceramique or Alumina thermal adhesive as both are non capacitive. One secret little known fact, is about the best TIM made is Arctic Silver Adhesive, that TIM will outperform about anything, only downside is it's slightly capacitive, but that's why Alumina adhesive was created.

One tip that needs to be adhered is to apply the Seven Carat thermal paste (This applies for computer heatsinks and flashlights heatsinks) apply the Seven Carat paste and *let it sit for 10 minutes* before you mate the two surfaces together. This is the only TIM that requires this step, then this paste will achieve maximum performance immediately. Arctic Silver 5, which is slightly capacitive requires around 200 hours to achieve max performance.

What's nice about this community is the members are die hard modders, much like overclockers, always tinkering to make what they have even better via modification, so you guys here are ok in my book. I may be unenlighted in my user title here, but I'm enlightened when it comes to improving cooling in anything, especially flashlights with hot running LEDs.

Stay Cool

Silversinksam
Official Silver Paste Taster™ :duh2:


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