# Maglites becoming a bunch of junk in my opinion -short review of the 2AA Mini Mag LED



## lightyearsaway (Nov 27, 2012)

I think I am going to get both types of responses here, both telling me I can go jump off a bridge and some telling me I am absoluetely right. These are just my opinions, so take it easy.

So here's the thing, I just got two 2AA LED mini maglites, this is the normal one, no pro or pro + or anything like that, this is just the basic 2AA minimag. They suck. Can I use that word on here? Ok they are terrible. I paid roughly $20 a light with shipping for these pieces of junk. I have a $14 Romisen that can do a lot better than these.

Let me breifly review my findings.

Quality of construction, generally good for maglites.
Beam: Terrible, they say 141M, I laugh, what a joke. More like 10-20M and that's pushing it.
Spot: Full of holes, as usual, this was common for incandy lights, but I was shocked to find this on LEDs now too. But only this one so far. I am shocked. Ok so the spot can light up a room I suppose so it's not that bad, but the Romisen (A Chinese made light, yep you heard me right, a Chinese made light) I have wow! The spot shines everywhere, there are no holes and that circle is tight!
Reflector: Terrible, the light isn't round, someone in their company needs a better geometry class.
Battery life, ok well, they claim, claim now, and based on the 141M claim, I wonder, but they claim this light on low power can last 31 hours. I'm trying not to choke on that as I type it, I highly doubht it's going to do that, but I don't feel like wasting 2 AA batteries to find out. We'll see what happens under normal usage.

I give this light a 2 out of 5. I don't think the price to what you get is actually fair value.

If the battery life lasts as long as they claim, these lights may be ok for emgerncies as they are contructed well, you could probably do somone some damage with it if you threw it at their head too. But that's about it.... 

Just really disappointed. Was expecting them to improve a few things, and now with an LED was expecting a much better light, boy what a disappointment. Will be spending a bit more money here soon on some LED LENSERS. Should be a good investment.

EDIT: One thing I should mention, perhaps some people will argue Maglite was never really that good. Well for their small lights they were the best that I could find 15 years ago, and their 6D cell mags, wow!! they were the bomb about 15 years ago.. But now.. yeah... probably not so much...


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## ragweed (Nov 27, 2012)

Their 3-4 D size were good in the day & cops even had them issued to them. I get my Romisens from Shining Beam & never had a problem with the beam or reliability issues.


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## lightyearsaway (Nov 27, 2012)

Oh I agree with you, but back in the day was 15-20 years ago. They were great, the problem is they haven't advanced at all. It's just sad. I won't be buying anymore Maglites.

The Romisen lights are fantastic, the only problem is the battery life, I have an RC-29 that will drain in about 45 minutes. The life is short, but the light itself is fantasitic! I love it. Good quality, great features. 

And I am now reading a forum about LED Lensers aren't all that good either... I'm starting to feel a little bit frustated.


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## Ezeriel (Nov 27, 2012)

lightyearsaway said:


> Oh I agree with you, but back in the day was 15-20 years ago. They were great, the problem is they haven't advanced at all. It's just sad. I won't be buying anymore Maglites.
> 
> The Romisen lights are fantastic, the only problem is the battery life, I have an RC-29 that will drain in about 45 minutes. The life is short, but the light itself is fantasitic! I love it. Good quality, great features.
> 
> And I am now reading a forum about LED Lensers aren't all that good either... I'm starting to feel a little bit frustated.



I adore my Romisen RC-29 II NW, but yeah.. not enough runtime for me.

I just wonder why they never came out with a 2AA version of the light


If they ever bump up the lumens and runtimes, Romisen could have some of the best lights on the market.
Sadly, my RC-29 has been replaced by a Hypetac P1A, which does just about everything better


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## martindb (Nov 27, 2012)

Maglites are certainly playing off their past reputation rather than their present performance. Whenever I tell somebody that I collect high end flashlights, their response is always "ones like maglites?" 

Pitched against a run of the mill LED flashlight, Maglites are pretty good and you could be fooled into thinking they're a premium product, but put them up against even an entry level Fenix, 4Sevens, Jetbeam etc and all of a sudden the Maglite is made to look like a piece of junk. 


I do like the candle light feature on them though.


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## Outdoorsman5 (Nov 27, 2012)

lightyearsaway said:


> Just really disappointed. Was expecting them to improve a few things, and now with an LED was expecting a much better light, boy what a disappointment. Will be spending a bit more money here soon on some LED LENSERS. Should be a good investment.



Yeah, once you get "enlightened" here on CPF you quickly see how much better a light can be. The mini mag was my first favorite light though back in the early 80s. In the mid 2000's I stumbled across an LED Lenser, and thought I'd found something really special. Then I discovered Fenix lights, Quarks, Zebralights, Sunwayman, Surefire, HDS, Olights, EagleTac, JetBeam, & others. Skip the LED Lenser and get one of these brands. You'll be glad you did.


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## Verndog (Nov 27, 2012)

Maglight had it, then lost it. Perfect example of what complacency can do to a company. See signature for further details.


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## mikekoz (Nov 27, 2012)

Outdoorsman5 said:


> Yeah, once you get "enlightened" here on CPF you quickly see how much better a light can be. The mini mag was my first favorite light though back in the early 80s. In the mid 2000's I stumbled across an LED Lenser, and thought I'd found something really special. Then I discovered Fenix lights, Quarks, Zebralights, Sunwayman, Surefire, HDS, Olights, EagleTac, JetBeam, & others. Skip the LED Lenser and get one of these brands. You'll be glad you did.



You are correct, but almost all of the lights you mention also cost a lot more than a Maglite. You cannot compare a $25.00 light to a $50 to $200.00+ flashlight. Maglites are marketed to the mass majority of people that buy flashlights. These are people that want an inexpensive flashlight to help them see in the dark in case of an emergency, use around the house, security, etc. These people look for lights that are reliable and use standard batteries, cells that also do not turn the flashlight into a pipe bomb if they are not treated correctly, easy to find, and inexpensive. They want a simple flashlight that does not have 20 brighness modes, 6 strobe modes, etc. It just needs to work when they want it to work. I am sorry, but Maglite does that very well, and even though I do not have sales figures, I would bet they sell more lights than all those others combined! They also make the lights here in the USA and help keep folks in this country employed. Do not get me wrong, I own lights of all types, and I own many if the brands you mention, and they are great lights, but you cannot compare a low cost tool like a Maglite to high end lights. I just thought I would stick up for Maglites since I fear this thread could become a Mag bashing thread here real soon!!;p;0).


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## Outdoorsman5 (Nov 27, 2012)

mikekoz said:


> You are correct, but almost all of the lights you mention also cost a lot more than a Maglite. You cannot compare a $25.00 light to a $50 to $200.00+ flashlight. Maglites are marketed to the mass majority of people that buy flashlights. These are people that want an inexpensive flashlight to help them see in the dark in case of an emergency, use around the house, security, etc. These people look for lights that are reliable and use standard batteries, cells that also do not turn the flashlight into a pipe bomb if they are not treated correctly, easy to find, and inexpensive. They want a simple flashlight that does not have 20 brighness modes, 6 strobe modes, etc. It just needs to work when they want it to work. I am sorry, but Maglite does that very well, and even though I do not have sales figures, I would bet they sell more lights than all those others combined! They also make the lights here in the USA and help keep folks in this country employed. Do not get me wrong, I own lights of all types, and I own many if the brands you mention, and they are great lights, but you cannot compare a low cost tool like a Maglite to high end lights. I just thought I would stick up for Maglites since I fear this thread could become a Mag bashing thread here real soon!!;p;0).



Wasn't tryin to steam anybody, and I wasn't comparing that list of lights to maglights. I was comparing them to LED Lenser lights....which are in the same price range as many (not all) of the lights on the list....



Outdoorsman5 said:


> In the mid 2000's I stumbled across an *LED Lenser*, and thought I'd found something really special. Then I discovered Fenix lights, Quarks, Zebralights, Sunwayman, Surefire, HDS, Olights, EagleTac, JetBeam, & others. *Skip the LED Lenser *and get one of these brands. You'll be glad you did.



I am offering advice to the OP. He didn't like the the Maglite, and is about to buy a LED Lenser. I believe he should skip the Lenser and move on to a better quality light from one of the companies that I listed. Most would be happier.


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## StarHalo (Nov 27, 2012)

Maglite is only competing with the other lights on the store shelf, not the vast galaxy of quality lights that store shoppers have never heard of. If you compare the MagLED to whatever plastic $5 Energizer Craplight, it does well: a heavy metal body, lots of stark white light, and it even says Made In The USA on it - all very impressive features to the store flashlight shopper. 

My Quark Mini Neutral has replaced every version of every Maglite I've ever owned. The one Mag I still own has a 600 lumen drop-in stuffed in it.


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## mikekoz (Nov 27, 2012)

Outdoorsman5 said:


> Wasn't tryin to steam anybody, and I wasn't comparing that list of lights to maglights. I was comparing them to LED Lenser lights....which are in the same price range as many (not all) of the lights on the list....
> 
> 
> 
> I am offering advice to the OP. He didn't like the the Maglite, and is about to buy a LED Lenser. I believe he should skip the Lenser and move on to a better quality light from one of the companies that I listed. Most would be happier.




I hear you! I am not steamed about anything you wrote as it is good information. I also understand why a lot of people on this forum do not like Maglites. They are not my favorite brand also, but I like them for what they are. I have just seen threads like this, and also lately Led Lenser threads, go downhill real quickly! The title of this thread also will not help matters! ;p).


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## yotehunter (Nov 27, 2012)

I still have a couple of modded mini mags and one 4D cell with a Cyan Luxeon Star in it for my "things go bump in the night" light:candle: I guarantee that an intruder will not be able to see to take a shot at me when that beam hits his eyes! Well, that and a .45 ACP slug center mass

They do serve the general public very well though, and are a better choice than some cheap plastic 2 D cell POS


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## awyeah (Nov 27, 2012)

One thing that is cool about mag lites is all of the drop-in replacements that are available for them. I put a 140lumen LED in my 5D for about $15 that I found at brightguy. Makes it a bit more acceptable. I know there are way brighter ones... but, hey, taking it from stock to 140lumens for $15 isn't too bad.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Nov 27, 2012)

Maglite "C" is my Number One favorite form factor light, tied with some 18650 lights.

Just needs a little modding, that's all.

Now, I won't touch a Maglite manufactured after 1999, but that's another story.


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## gearhead1972 (Nov 27, 2012)

I agree to a point, the 2 aa mag light I had as a kid was a great thing to have and was well made, but not the greatest output. When I started buying mini mag leds I was expecting only a little better light output then the old ones. Their output is much better than the little xenon bulb. They aren't "becoming" anything, they are what they are and sell well to the general public. I have 2 XL50's and like them for what they are, they have decent beam patterns and output for around the house. One stays on the work bench, another on the table next to the kitchen table, I use them often. The 3D led is a much better light then my incan 3D was. The Mag-Tac looks very promising.


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## Aahhyes68 (Nov 27, 2012)

Hmmmm..... On Black Friday Lowes had the AA & 2C, LED Maglights for 50% off. I bought 4 of each size, 10.97 * 14.97* ea..

I haven't opened them yet.. I guess I should take them back ? Any upgrades woth doing to these that would be worth the $$ invested ?


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## gearhead1972 (Nov 27, 2012)

the 2aa can be modded to take a P60 drop in, that's a fun mod, just did one with a nite ize tail clicky. Then there is the Fusion 36 drop in for the C or D mags that are great to have $26 on Ebay. I have one in a 2 C it is nice and floody


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## El Camino (Nov 27, 2012)

I have two incan AAs, which I upgraded with tail cap switches and LEDs. I also have a Mini AAA LED, XL200 (which is an excellent light), a Luxeon III 2d, and a Cree 2D, which throws nicely. The regular (69-77 lumen) AA LED never interested me much though. They may not have fancy features (except the XL200), but they work. You can get lots of custom stuff for them, like the aforementioned tail cap switches, glass lenses, roll preventers, etc. The Mag Charger and MagTac are also good lights, but more expensive.

They could use some improvement, but they are made in America, have lifetime guarantees, and are easy to find. High end collectible/custom lights are not their target, but the Pro and XL series along with the Tac are steps in the right direction.


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## Big_Ed (Nov 27, 2012)

If you don't think they've advanced over the years, then you haven't compared the original incan Minimag with each successive generation of LED Minimags. Each generation got better than the last generation. Each generation got noticably brighter, and I found the beams to be smoother than the original incan versions,as well as having wider spill light, and whiter tint. I sense the op might be a bit biased against Maglite from the get-go. Compare the original incan Minimag to the current one, and you will see they are very much improved. You call them your "findings"? You didn't even do an actual runtime test, just said you doubted it would make the claimed runtime. Not much of a "finding", just speculation. Put your money where your mouth is and run an actual test to see if it's true or not. The claims of lumens and runtime are a set of standards (I believe it's called the FL-1 standard) that have been developed and agreed upon by various groups/manufacturers, so I don't believe they are just making up numbers, they actually have to live up to them.


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## lightyearsaway (Nov 27, 2012)

A little surprised at how much discussion this created, but I love it.

I should have learned my lessen last year when I bought two XL50s last year, oh my gosh what a bunch of garbage! You have to twist your wrist or some crap like that and they don't work like their supposed to. They have like 6-7 different functions, it's a complicated light that doesn't work well. I regretted that purchase and should have learned that Maglite just isn't on par with some of those other brands. 

The 2AA minimags have 4 settings, high, low, stobe, and sos, it's not just a flashlight, the problem is the output and reflector is just garbage. They never changed it, they are using the same design from the 80's and 90's, and this is the problem. 

I'd love to get rid of all four of these actually, a big waste of money. I can understand the whole Made in the USA concept and such, but these companies need to make two different styles of lights, once like the two above I mention are fine for the general public, and then they need to make a better flashlight that can compete and compare to those we have mentioned in this forum. To be honest I had no idea of most of these other brands, never heard of them, because Maglite does such a great job in marketing their produce, i.e. they spend a lot of money getting their name out rather than on the quality and design of the light, so they make more money and that's why we see them everwhere. Of course they created a household name for themselves during the 80's and 90's as well.



mikekoz said:


> You are correct, but almost all of the lights you mention also cost a lot more than a Maglite. You cannot compare a $25.00 light to a $50 to $200.00+ flashlight. Maglites are marketed to the mass majority of people that buy flashlights. These are people that want an inexpensive flashlight to help them see in the dark in case of an emergency, use around the house, security, etc. These people look for lights that are reliable and use standard batteries, cells that also do not turn the flashlight into a pipe bomb if they are not treated correctly, easy to find, and inexpensive. They want a simple flashlight that does not have 20 brighness modes, 6 strobe modes, etc. It just needs to work when they want it to work. I am sorry, but Maglite does that very well, and even though I do not have sales figures, I would bet they sell more lights than all those others combined! They also make the lights here in the USA and help keep folks in this country employed. Do not get me wrong, I own lights of all types, and I own many if the brands you mention, and they are great lights, but you cannot compare a low cost tool like a Maglite to high end lights. I just thought I would stick up for Maglites since I fear this thread could become a Mag bashing thread here real soon!!;p;0).




the XL50 has at least 6 modes, but it doesn't work well, it's complicated to be honest and it doesn't work all that great, I think I paid 15-20 per one of these. I don't think one needs to fork over $200 bucks to get a decent flashlight, but certainly these $15 models like maglites just don't cut it anymore. $50 is reasonable, you get a really bright light that throws and spots well and with 2-3 brightness modes, it's enough for most purposes, I am figuring that out. Now these big $200 lights, I have no idea what I would personal do with them. I'm not a cop, I don't camp, but I do see a great use for strobe and SOS though regardless.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to bash Maglite, but I do think I need to warn other newbies that there lots of other lights out there, I am learning this myself. I probably have 7 Maglites in my home now. I have two 2AA minimag halogens, 10 years ago, two XL50s, 2 LED mini mags, and one 4D cell incandy. But I won't be buying anymore Maglites, I have enough of them, and will be giving a few of them away as gifts shortly. I need better lights, these just are not going to cut it anymore.




Outdoorsman5 said:


> Yeah, once you get "enlightened" here on CPF you quickly see how much better a light can be. The mini mag was my first favorite light though back in the early 80s. In the mid 2000's I stumbled across an LED Lenser, and thought I'd found something really special. Then I discovered Fenix lights, Quarks, Zebralights, Sunwayman, Surefire, HDS, Olights, EagleTac, JetBeam, & others. Skip the LED Lenser and get one of these brands. You'll be glad you did.



Appreciate the list bro. After reading this forum a bit, I did see some of these already like Jetbeam, surefire, zebralights and fenix lights, and will be doing more research. I am probably going to stay away from LED LENSERS now because I do not think they are worth the money according to the LED LENSER bashing thread. haha. I would be interested though in a light similar to the P7 and M7, and I think that I won't find something because according to someone in that thread LED LENSER has a patent on the technology that makes those lights so zoomable, and this is the feature I am looking for in at least one flashlight. So I might buy one LED LENSER just for that feature, I need to finish reading that thread.

Anyway, Maglites are good for the general public, but I am looking for stuff that I can use in emergencies and other things, I am sure the maglites will be a great backup light, but I don't want anymore of them.


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## Big_Ed (Nov 27, 2012)

I believe you are thinking of the XL 100,not the XL 50. The XL 50 is a simplified version of the XL 100,with only 3 modes; Hi, low and strobe. The XL 100 has the 5 or so modes. It's kind of innovative, but gimmicky and hard to use. I bought an XL 200 and put the XL 50 tail switch on it. Now, it's nice and bright, like the XL 200, but simple to use, like the XL 50.


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## lightyearsaway (Nov 27, 2012)

Yes it was the XL100, I tried to edit my post, but the system wouldn't let me save it, so I gave up. Yes innovated, but difficult to use, the twist does not work very well at all. Another disappointment. Anyway..


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## K9Patrol (Nov 28, 2012)

I've got an Xl100 and 2 Xl200's -- Yeah the Xl100 interface is retarded with having to feel for the notch in the dark to hold the flashlight at a certain angle to get it to do a certain thing.. The Xl200 fixed this problem, and the UI is fantastic. Outside of having to nearly destroy the non-removable reflector to replace the plastic lens, these are awesome little lights. 

I put a glass lens in the Xl100, damaging the reflector in the process and a red lens in my (red) Xl200.

If I were to improve these lights I'd make the reflector removable and increase the PWM speed. It's not too bad, though.


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## El Camino (Nov 28, 2012)

The incan and LED Minimags have different reflectors. The LED reflector is much deeper, and the head of the light is also much longer. The XL100 was a gimmick, but the XL200 is much improved. The PWM is a little irritating, but normally I don't notice it.


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## lightyearsaway (Nov 28, 2012)

El Camino said:


> The incan and LED Minimags have different reflectors. The LED reflector is much deeper, and the head of the light is also much longer. The XL100 was a gimmick, but the XL200 is much improved. The PWM is a little irritating, but normally I don't notice it.



Indeed that might very well be true, but the fact that they changed to deeper and longer did not help the design and light at all.
The XL100 is indeed a joke, I have never used it I wish Maglight would buy it back from me and change to the XL200 but that isn't going to happen I am sure. But they are still selling all three of these XL types.


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## Ishango (Nov 28, 2012)

Maglite is indeed not offering the latest and greatest. I too like most of my lights more than my Maglites. However for the general public Maglite lights offer a good quality vs price balance and more importantly it is generally available. They still use their market domination as their main basis and just slightly improve each light.

To compare it, when I need a pen for instance, I just go and buy a pen generally available in town (including some nice brands like Parker or Waterman). However I could of course also join a pen forum  and buy the latest and greatest writing experience or even have one custom made, but I personally don't feel the need for one. I don't need one as special as that and for instance I only once in many years had a Parker pen fail on me (other than running out of ink). 

The general Parker Jotter pen for instance has been around for as long as I can remember, can still be bought in any general store and still has the same nice writing experience. A lot of people I know see it as one of the best pens they ever used. I think this is the same for most consumers for flashlights too (although most people will know you can get a better pen than what's generally available as opposed to not knowing of other flashlight brands than Maglite as far as it concerns 'high' quality lights).

I do still own my old Mag 3D (upgraded with a showerhead 36 LED drop-in for now) and it is doing car duty as a backup if an emergency would ever occur (and with the drop-in). I also still have my trusty Mini Maglite 2AA upgraded with a LED drop-in and it still stands next to my bed as it has done for ~17 years now, next to some of my newer lights. It remembers me of good memories camping and such and holds a spot in my collection.

I did own the ~60-70 lumens single mode Mini 2AA LED as well and the XL100 (to try out the novelty UI). Since I didn't use the 2AA LED a lot and I didn't like the XL100 UI I gave both lights away to friends (who don't care about it not being top notch).

However since I do have good memories of the Maglites I did recently buy the newer Mini Maglite Pro just to check it out and it actually is quite a nice and fairly bright light, although it still isn't much compared to most of my other lights. I also do like what I've seen of the Mag-Tac lights and intend to buy one, once it comes available over here, though for the same price other nice lights can be bought.


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## Monocrom (Nov 28, 2012)

Definitely not what they used to be, back in the day.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Nov 28, 2012)

Maglite isn't targeting the flashlight connoisseur (basically members of this forum) but the average Joe Consumer who buys his flashlights from the sporting goods section at the local big-box store, and in that context they're generally the best flashlights available for the money and do everything their target market needs them to do: light comes out of the business end, they're reasonably durable, and they're powered by cheap and readily available batteries.

Yes, Maglite could improve the quality with aluminum reflectors and glass lenses (for starters), but that could potentially price them out of their current target market. And besides, they really are decent lights and not nearly as bad as some folks around here make them out to be. You could do a lot worse in a pinch than have an LED Mini Maglite in your pocket.


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## mikekoz (Nov 28, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Definitely not what they used to be, back in the day.



Huh???? :thinking: They are light years better than the old incan versions. They are brighter, have much better beams, and the batteries last longer in them. I see no difference in the bodies. I have some of the old 5D, 3C, 3D incans, and upgraded them all with a cheap LED upgrade, and it made all of them 200% better!


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## Monocrom (Nov 28, 2012)

mikekoz said:


> Huh???? :thinking: They are light years better than the old incan versions. They are brighter, have much better beams, and the batteries last longer in them. I see no difference in the bodies. I have some of the old 5D, 3C, 3D incans, and upgraded them all with a cheap LED upgrade, and it made all of them 200% better!



I have seen a difference in overall quality of construction. I'd much rather have a 20 year-old one than one made just a handful of years ago, or yes; even now.


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## Lucky Jim (Nov 28, 2012)

I like different lights for different uses. I have a couple of newish incan 2D cell Mags which are great for keeping in the cars. Terralux LED drop-ins and glass breaker tail caps. Nice and hefty. Easy to get spare batteries at filling stations. Just the job - and I've given a few like this away to friends and family for the same use. For personal lights I prefer something other than the Mini Mag - but I wouldn't write Mags off generally.


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## Blitzwing (Nov 28, 2012)

Upgrade to LED Lensers.....thanks for the morning laugh.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Nov 28, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> I have seen a difference in overall quality of construction. I'd much rather have a 20 year-old one than one made just a handful of years ago, or yes; even now.


I agree with mikeoz, except for the obvious differences in the emitter, I see zero difference in quality between a vintage 2AA Mini Maglite and an LED Mini Maglite I purchased a couple of years ago.


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## Monocrom (Nov 28, 2012)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> I agree with mikeoz, except for the obvious differences in the emitter, I see zero difference in quality between a vintage 2AA Mini Maglite and an LED Mini Maglite I purchased a couple of years ago.



I have to respectfully disagree. I definitely saw a difference.


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## BIGWOOD (Nov 28, 2012)

gearhead1972 said:


> the 2aa can be modded to take a P60 drop in, that's a fun mod, just did one with a nite ize tail clicky



I agree. The 2AA mini mag mod with the P60 pill & TIR lense is one of my favourite mods and is perfect for gift giving.

I always keep at least one Maglite stock. I like it even though I don't use it. It just reminds me of the good old days when my eyes don't need a million lumens to see in the dark.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Nov 28, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> I have to respectfully disagree. I definitely saw a difference.


What differences, exactly? I just compared the two and the look and feel are identical in terms of overall quality. The parts of the lights were even interchangeable, though obviously not functionally compatible.


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## Monocrom (Nov 28, 2012)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> What differences, exactly? I just compared the two and the look and feel are identical in terms of overall quality. The parts of the lights were even interchangeable, though obviously not functionally compatible.



I've posted this before on CPF. Have had two separate 2AA Mini-Mags fail on me due to **** poor Q.C.

One fell apart in my hands after inspecting the bulb and batteries. Wouldn't thread back together again at all. Very same thing with a 3D model that did nothing but ride underneath my driver's seat for 3 years. The second 2AA model was so thin that the barrel flexed out of shape while I was holding it and trying to put in fresh batteries. You don't hear of such issues with vintage versions.

So yes, not nearly as good as they used to be.


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## dougie (Nov 29, 2012)

I have the older AA & AAA size Mags which never get used even though they were all upgraded to LEDs years ago. I also have several C & D size Mags which are again all converted to LEDs. The only one which sees any use is a 2 x D size light which has a Malkoff module in it. It sits in the car for emergencies and because I wouldn't want to risk a more expensive light being stolen if someone breaks into the car. Despite their lack of refinement compared to more modern stuff their durability is amazing. Unfortunately, with any technology things move on and Maglite didn't.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Nov 29, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> I've posted this before on CPF. Have had two separate 2AA Mini-Mags fail on me due to **** poor Q.C.
> 
> One fell apart in my hands after inspecting the bulb and batteries. Wouldn't thread back together again at all. Very same thing with a 3D model that did nothing but ride underneath my driver's seat for 3 years. The second 2AA model was so thin that the barrel flexed out of shape while I was holding it and trying to put in fresh batteries. You don't hear of such issues with vintage versions.
> 
> So yes, not nearly as good as they used to be.


I have some trouble believing this. Having just compared a vintage and modern Mini Maglite, I see zero difference in quality. They even weigh almost the same indicating that the material density is equal (the LED version is, in fact, a hair heavier due to its slightly longer length). Both lights have also seen a fair amount of use and abuse and have held up equally well.

I would be interested if anybody else has had your experience of lights falling apart or crushing under finger pressure.


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## edpmis02 (Nov 29, 2012)

My Lux III minimag feels more solid than my newer (with and without the lanyard hole) Rebel models. I understanding dropping quality to keep the $25 price point when it is surrounded by Dorcy lights. I dont like the low PWM and how fast output drops as the batteries drain past 1.3v.

Love the remove lens assembly and use as a candle feature!


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## Monocrom (Nov 29, 2012)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> I have some trouble believing this.



Thanks for basically calling me a liar. Believe what you wish. You have every right to do so. Clearly others in this topic have also seen a drop in quality from older versions. Perhaps they too are lying. 

Oh well. As I said, believe what you wish. No skin off of my back.


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## El Camino (Nov 29, 2012)

I think he just meant that he had trouble believing Mag would be so lax with quality control. Maybe the QC guy was snoozing one day and let a bunch of lemons out the door. I'd be pretty upset and want them replaced.


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## mikekoz (Nov 29, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Thanks for basically calling me a liar. Believe what you wish. You have every right to do so. Clearly others in this topic have also seen a drop in quality from older versions. Perhaps they too are lying.
> 
> Oh well. As I said, believe what you wish. No skin off of my back.



I think the main thing Mtn Man had an issue with was bending the body of the light while changing the batteries. I have an older incan AA mag and one of the LED versions about a year old, and they both seem to have the same body, as far as thickness goes. I just removed the cap off of both, and while I am not the Hulk, I could not bend either one of them. I am sure there is more to it than you explained, and you do not have to explain it as it does not matter, but I am just guessing that is where the issue lies.


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## StorminMatt (Nov 29, 2012)

Blitzwing said:


> Upgrade to LED Lensers.....thanks for the morning laugh.



I have to say that, apart from possibly the battery holder, that $49, 1000 lumen, Coast HP550 from Costco seems to be a REALLY good light.


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## FLAWLS1 (Nov 29, 2012)

I have a 2 AA mini Maglite and I think it's a great light for the price. It doesn't compare to the higher end torches though


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## the.Mtn.Man (Nov 29, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Thanks for basically calling me a liar.


I never said or implied that you were liar. I merely stated that I have some trouble believing what you said. What you said could very well be true, or you could genuinely believe that it is. I simply find it hard to believe that someone could accidentally -- or even deliberately -- crush a Mini Maglite with their bare hands. Do you know of other people who have had similar experiences?


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## CreeCrazy (Nov 29, 2012)

Led Lenser was my first light that opened my eyes to how bright a flashlight could be. It's been maybe 8 or so years since they hit the shelves at Lowes for about $50. After seeing one I just had to have one. I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It was probably in the 50-60 lumen range but I thought that thing was bright!!! Now my EDC is a 500 lumen JETBeam RRT-01. As far as other lights being more expensive than the Maglites. You can find several lights that blow away the Maglites over at ShiningBeam in the same price range. Some even with regular AA batteries. Most people don't even know these light even exist. They are not Made in USA though.


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## Monocrom (Nov 29, 2012)

mikekoz said:


> I think the main thing Mtn Man had an issue with was bending the body of the light while changing the batteries. I have an older incan AA mag and one of the LED versions about a year old, and they both seem to have the same body, as far as thickness goes. I just removed the cap off of both, and while I am not the Hulk, I could not bend either one of them. I am sure there is more to it than you explained, and you do not have to explain it as it does not matter, but I am just guessing that is where the issue lies.



I'm not the Hulk either. Although for just a second after it had happened, I felt really strong.

I'll clarify what happened since it seems to be causing a bit of confusion, and I'd like to eliminate that.

I didn't bend the body. What occurred was that I dropped the old batteries, and held onto the body of the 2AA model in between my thumb and forefinger. I must have squeezed down a bit too hard. When I tried inserting the fresh cells, I noticed they didn't just simply easily side into the body. Puzzled, I took a closer look. Saw that the opening was now just a bit oval instead of circular. I couldn't believe what I was looking at, at first. But sure enough, just a bit of minor pressure from my very non-muscular thumb and forefinger had caused the body to deform that way. (Though not bend at anything close to a right angle.) I hope that clarifies what happened with that particular Mini-Mag that I used to own.


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## Monocrom (Nov 29, 2012)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> I never said or implied that you were liar. I merely stated that I have some trouble believing what you said. What you said could very well be true, *or you could genuinely believe that it is. *



Emphasis mine.

So now the possibilities are that what I mentioned from past experience _might_ be true, or I'm just delusional. 

(Sorry, had to use that icon because I'm genuinely smiling now.) 

I would wager that the possibility of myself simply "genuinely believing" on three separate occasions with three separate Mags that I had Q.C. issues would be . . . Well, extremely slim. Once would not be outside the realm of possibility for many folks. Though I personally would be in the minority there. But three times, with three different Mags? Not even remotely. 

I suppose I should be grateful that you acknowledge, at the very least, the possibility that I don't need professional help. 

No hard feelings at all, but I hope you'll understand why I'll be skipping past your posts from now on. And, not just in this topic.

(As far as "crushing" a Mini-Mag goes, I believe my explanation in my post right before this one should clarify what took place.)


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## StorminMatt (Nov 29, 2012)

CreeCrazy said:


> As far as other lights being more expensive than the Maglites. You can find several lights that blow away the Maglites over at ShiningBeam in the same price range. Some even with regular AA batteries. Most people don't even know these light even exist. They are not Made in USA though.



I actually bought a 3C Defiant flashlight the other day at Home Depot for $20. It uses a Cree XM-L, and puts out 550 lumens. That pretty much blows ANY Maglite out of the water, at least when it comes to brightness. And it does so without Li-Ion batteries, or anything else that would turn off the average consumer (except maybe shorter runtime vs a Mag). And, of course, I didn't even have to order online - I drove a couple of miles and had the light back home in less than 20 minutes (no waiting, paying for shipping, etc). I don't know that it will be as reliable as a Maglite 15 years from now (or whether it will even work 15 years from now). And I don't think it's American made. But this light REALLY drives home the fact that, at least when it comes to light output, better lights are READILY available, and AT LEAST as cheap as a Maglite.

I would like to add that, if I could have gotten, say, a 3C or 3D Maglite with that same XM-L LED, I certainly WOULD have. I particularly like the look and feel of the 3C Mags. But the current 3C/3D LED Maglites are stuck at around 130-140 lumens. This is about the same as an old-school incan 6D Maglite, and not even as much as a Coast P14 that I have had for a few years. And if I DID want a 550+ lumen XM-L Maglite, I would have to either go with a Malkoff drop-in for my 3C/3D OR mod a 3C/3D LED Mag by swapping over to an XM-L. All just to get what Mag SHOULD be selling straight out of the box. But they don't. And the worst part about it? It would really be SO easy for them to make this. Lots of us actually LIKE the clean, sleek, no-nonsense styling of Mags. And lots of us out there actually PREFER a solid light with some heft to it vs a smaller light - at least for some situations. If only they would 'step it up', they would have a winner.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Nov 30, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> So now the possibilities are that what I mentioned from past experience _might_ be true, or I'm just delusional.


I never said or implied that, either. You seem intent on taking offense and are twisting my words to achieve that. Try reading my comments with a bit more charity rather than assuming there is malice behind them.

Regarding your explanation, I'm really not sure what to make of it. I just took the batteries out of my LED Mini Maglite and literally squeezed it as hard as I could without any effect whatsoever. So if you did indeed crush the battery tube as you say then I have to believe that it was a fluke of some sort and not a systemic problem with the quality of Maglite products. As I said, I even went so far as to weigh an older incan Mini Mag and a newer LED model, and they weigh almost exactly the same which indicates the material density is the same.

Anyway, thanks for the additional information. I'm curious if anybody else has had a similar experience.


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## cccpull (Nov 30, 2012)

Okay, I had just done that, too. I removed the rear cap of my 2aa led Maglite and before I tried to squeeze it, noticed the tube wasn't completely round, which I first blamed on my eyesight. Cleaned it hoping it was oxidation or dirt, but no. Tried to squeeze it, didn't bend. Then I got a 10+ year old 2aa incandescent mag and removed the rear cap and the tube was perfectly round.
It seems like a quality control issue. In my case, it doesn't affect anything, but it was disappointing.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Nov 30, 2012)

Interesting. So in Monocrom's case, the battery tube might have already been slightly deformed without him previously noticing, and he just assumed that he crushed it with his bare hands when a battery happened to not fit the way he was expecting. That makes sense.

That still leaves the question of exactly why he (and apparently cccpull) received lights with slightly oval battery tubes and whether or not this is a widespread or even recent anomaly.


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## Jash (Nov 30, 2012)

Yep, the 2AA Minimag LED is a shocker of a light. I found one a few months ago on a road construction site. It was virtually new (one tiny scratch). The thread is rough, the beam awful and blue... and the PWM on low mode is nauseating.

They sell for $25 in one of our major home improvement stores, along side the similarly, yet better Rayovac Indestructable series of lights (labelled Varta here).

The only thing larger mags are good for is hosting insane upgrades. There's just too many options now to bother with a stock Maglite.


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## merc240d (Dec 1, 2012)

This would explain why the LED upgrade kit I tried to install the other day didn't work. The LED heatsink rubbed against the head housing and twisted the leads. Although, the 2AA minimags are several years old.oo:


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## CreeCrazy (Dec 1, 2012)

I have both the Mini Maglite Pro and Pro +. I like both of them and they are probably the best lights Maglite has ever produced, but they are still behind the competition. Does anyone know if they are planning on selling the Pro and Pro+ at the Big Box stores?


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## Torpedo (Dec 1, 2012)

Pro is at Home Depot for 22.99 now. While Mag Lites are not the cutting edge in lights, I have had them for years with no problems. I have the led 2aa, and the pro, and they ae not junk. Any manufacturer can have quality issues at times. I think overall Mag Lites enjoy a good reputation. I am not a big fan of Mags anymore(since I got Fenix, SWM etc), but I do like to buy American when I can, and their prices are attractive to the average consumer.


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## Badbeams3 (Dec 1, 2012)

Here is a 320 lumen light: http://www.maglite.com/maglite_magtac_plain_bezel_LED.asp

But still...behind the competition. The same might be said of Surefire to a degree. Slow to adopt new leds. I remember how exciting it was to finally see led`s outperform the Surfire hot wires for us led fans back in the day. Took them forever to admit led`s were here to stay and were outperforming their lights. Still being slow to accept lithium rechargeable s...guess they want to capitalize on their single use 123 batt sales as long as they can.


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## Jkeone808 (Dec 2, 2012)

I recently picked up the same light and was surprised how bad it was. I used to love maglites years ago, guess I just didn't know any better.


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## lightyearsaway (Dec 2, 2012)

If these can really be crushed with bare hands, that's pretty sad. I'm just all around disappointed, and wish I could get rid of them. 

Why is LED Lenser just as bad as Maglite in a nutshell? Quality of construction just as bad as maglite or what?


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## rdrfronty (Dec 2, 2012)

I just have to add that you are WAY off on the throw of these lights OP. If you really think these lights only throw 20m you either had it on low or had your eyes partial closed. They have issues - crappy plastic lense and reflector, but throw for its power output and reflector size isn't bad. I have tested them at .4L at 100M, so the rated 140m sounds about right to me. 
I didn't really care for the interface on mine, so I did give mine away to a family member. But I did that knowing it will be a light that for them, will work and work well when they need it to work - that's what Maglites do well.


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## lightyearsaway (Dec 2, 2012)

rdrfronty said:


> I just have to add that you are WAY off on the throw of these lights OP. If you really think these lights only throw 20m you either had it on low or had your eyes partial closed. They have issues - crappy plastic lense and reflector, but throw for its power output and reflector size isn't bad. I have tested them at .4L at 100M, so the rated 140m sounds about right to me.
> I didn't really care for the interface on mine, so I did give mine away to a family member. But I did that knowing it will be a light that for them, will work and work well when they need it to work - that's what Maglites do well.



I don't think I am way off. I know how far the buildings are behind me. The Romisen light I have from China will blow these maglites away with only 1 AA battery. I have compared them side by side. The Romisen can throw at least 100M, these minimags can't even touch what the Romisen can. And they claim to throw much further. The light was on high. Thse can't come close to 140M. Sorry, they can't. I have two of them, I tried both of them with brand new batteries and tested them side by side. The Romisen kills them. Sorry, but that's the truth, perhaps I got two bad lights? I really don't think that's the case, but maybe it's possible. But based on the six of them I have, all different types, the garbage reflector is probably what's causing the beam not to go that 140M they claim.


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## rdrfronty (Dec 2, 2012)

lightyearsaway said:


> I don't think I am way off. I know how far the buildings are behind me. The Romisen light I have from China will blow these maglites away with only 1 AA battery. I have compared them side by side. The Romisen can throw at least 100M, these minimags can't even touch what the Romisen can. And they claim to throw much further. The light was on high. Thse can't come close to 140M. Sorry, they can't. I have two of them, I tried both of them with brand new batteries and tested them side by side. The Romisen kills them. Sorry, but that's the truth, perhaps I got two bad lights? I really don't think that's the case, but maybe it's possible. But based on the six of them I have, all different types, the garbage reflector is probably what's causing the beam not to go that 140M they claim.


Well you are just plain wrong. I know for fact the AA minimag will do 100m +. Easy. I'm not saying its a great light or the best compact light for the money - it's not. But will it throw 140m - yes. I actually test these lights. Not just spot it on a tree and guess what it will do. Done full real life throw tests on 50+ lights with meters. Including the RC29. And I do have to agree with you there - that little light smokes the minimag on throw and output. I've measured it maxing out right at 200m. Awesome little light there. It is a aspheric though.


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## Monocrom (Dec 2, 2012)

lightyearsaway said:


> Why is LED Lenser just as bad as Maglite in a nutshell? Quality of construction just as bad as maglite or what?



Different issues. Their flood-to-throw adjustable beam technology works well. Issues with exchange rates prices them far above what they would otherwise sell for here in America. Thus, making other brands of similar or even better quality a much better value. LL also optimizes their lights to run on alkalines. You can use rechargeable AA or AAA cells, but you won't get the best performance out of the lights by doing so. If you prefer to use lithium AA or AAA cells, best to avoid LL altogether. Some early LLs were horrible when it came to water-resistance. Also, LL still insists on using 3AAA battery-carriages in quite a few of their designs. Not only are such carriages usually fragile but it's a blatant sign of a company taking a shortcut that, unless they specialize in making absolutely cheap LED cluster lights sold at .99 cent Stores, they really shouldn't be bothering with. 

I have an LL T7 model that rides in the trunk of my car. Came with a quality belt-pouch. (Something other flashlight brands typically don't offer. Or if they do, it's some thin, cheap, crappy, piece of junk.) LL's focusing technology works well. Though the body of the T7 is too short for the technology. Works better on a light with a longer barrel. For what it is, it's a good light. But due to its 3AAA format that is optimized for crappy alkaline batteries, it's no where near as good as it could be.


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## lightyearsaway (Dec 2, 2012)

Mono thanks for that. Would the P7 or M7 be ok for the zoom to work properly? Is the barrel long enough? It seems both of these lights are using 4AAA batteries which doesn't make me happy, but they were recommened by some folks here and by LL themselves for what I needed them for. Looking for a light that will zoom in to the point of it being almost like a laser. Of course I am not going to get that perfect, but the RC-29 Romisen comes close. I jus twish I could find the XP-C emitter, but they claim not to make it.. so.. LL seems like another source that I might be able to get a really tight beam.

Maglight actually does have an ok beam for short range, but the over throw is too much, good for other things, but not what I am looking for. Did not buy the maglight specifically for this purpose either, but it is something I did find when I tried them out.


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## Monocrom (Dec 2, 2012)

lightyearsaway said:


> Mono thanks for that. Would the P7 or M7 be ok for the zoom to work properly? Is the barrel long enough? It seems both of these lights are using 4AAA batteries which doesn't make me happy, but they were recommened by some folks here and by LL themselves for what I needed them for.



The main issue with the T7, M7, and P7 is that when you're holding the light as intended (protruding from bottom of your first so you can hit the tailcap switch with your thumb) the head can easily get pushed forward just by gripping the light. Very annoying if you want the floody beam. LL made no provision at all for locking the head in one mode or the other. A glaring oversight. Also, I don't have large hands or even thick fingers. This issue is something that would have become very obvious if even one person at LL held one of these three lights properly and tried to use it for a task up close. 

If your primary intended use though is the throw beam over the floody one most of the time, the lack of needed length on the barrel shouldn't be an issue for you. LL definitely has the patent on this beam technology. And they protect it well with their lawyers. It's going to be a few years before their patent expires and we see this technology on better-built lights. Until then, if this is what you need, LED Lenser / Coast is the only game in town.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Dec 2, 2012)

lightyearsaway said:


> If these can really be crushed with bare hands, that's pretty sad. I'm just all around disappointed, and wish I could get rid of them.
> 
> Why is LED Lenser just as bad as Maglite in a nutshell? Quality of construction just as bad as maglite or what?


They can't be crushed with your bare hands. It seems that Monocrom was mistaken.

The "problem" with Maglites is that they're not intended for the flashlight enthusiast; however, they're very good flashlights for their target market.


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## CreeCrazy (Dec 2, 2012)

It's not that LED Lensers are junk. There are just many other lights out there that are SOOOOO much better! One of my personal favorites it the Nitecore Explorer series. EA1, EA2, EC1 and EC2. A little more expensive but great little lights. Then you got the new Zebralight SC52 that gets 280 lumens on 1 AA battery.


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## lightyearsaway (Dec 2, 2012)

Hey guys, I didn't create this thread so we could attack each other, I created it to complain about the quality of the lights I just bought because they are much less than expected. I am really disappointed in Maglite, however, I have to say, when I twist the top they come on. I guess they serve the purpose of a "general use" flashlight, and that has been said above they are not for the flashlight enthusiast. I don't think the energizers are either, but they serve the purprose when the power goes out. I am just really disappointed that over the last 10-15 years they haven't done anything to imporve the quality of their lights. That is depressing. But there are many other lights out there for the price that might be much better than Maglites, but I haven't done enough research yet to find them. I do appreciate all the comments in this thread and the suggestions made on other lights that I might want to try out. Maglite is just really well known, these other brands, until I came on this forum, I had no idea about, and I am soooo happy I came here to get educated on other lights that can do so many more things that I could ever imagine, you guys have so many years of experinece with this, anyone who wants to know about lights needs to come here to understnad what is out there and then do some reserach to find out what they need they can probably get a better light for. Some of you are Maglite fans, I used to be, but I am no more. 

As for the crushing issue, I am going to have to test this when one of these dies, though I will say they may never die. I will consider putting some pressure on one to see if it deforms. If it does, Maglite has major issues, if they don't perhaps one of Mono's lights slipped through the QC process? Doubtful, but... These are made in theUS where more people care than in other countries, so.. But I will look into, I appreciate the discussing and people bringing up their own experiences good or bad.


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## El Camino (Dec 2, 2012)

I squeezed one of my Minimags and couldn't get it to "crush" or deform. I think it's possible that the light in question may have already been deformed and not noticed until it was time to change the batteries. Remember that these lights are sold in big box stores. It could have been damaged in transit or by a careless stocker. You'd be surprised how much merchandise gets knocked over and damaged. I used to work in a grocery store, and there were multiple times when we opened the truck to find every single pallet had fallen over because the truck driver hit the brakes too hard. I could see how something like an aluminum flashlight could be slightly damaged but not be noticed.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Dec 3, 2012)

lightyearsaway said:


> Hey guys, I didn't create this thread so we could attack each other...


Nobody is attacking anybody.

As for your proposed "crush" test, I say go ahead and do it. Unless you are exceptionally strong, the chances of you being able to crush a sturdy aluminum tube with your bare hands is slim to none.

I know what you mean about coming here for an education. I originally started reading this forum to see if there was anything better than the LED Mini Maglite I had been carrying for many years and initially thought the folks on here spending $50+ on "just a flashlight" were utterly bonkers. I now have a $170 high CRI HDS Rotary as my everyday carry and consider it money well spent.


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## StarHalo (Dec 3, 2012)

My local Home Depot had a large display of MiniMag Pros in stock, but I passed that up in favor of the Defiant 3C; I hope it helps my Mag-using dad see the light..


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## yliu (Dec 3, 2012)

I really like the D cell mags, their only drawback would be the ugly beam, but that can be fixed by a little mod where you just insert a foggy plastic that acts as a diffuser. 

With all the other options around, I wouldn't say it's an outstanding light, however, it is a solid performer for the relatively low price.


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## ncka1234 (Dec 5, 2012)

I will say this, there are a lot of options out there for flashlights. You can have them bright, you can have extended on times, you can have modes and basically all the other bells and whistles you can pack into a flashlight. The challenge is to keep things affordable for the everyday consumer because at the end of the day that's what keeps a company afloat and probably more importantly in this economy keep people employed. 

Everyone is a consumer and everyone has an opinion, but when it comes down to acutally building a light that "Joe" can buy and use there are only so many ways to get this done. Chinese manufacturing vs. Domestic manufacturing, lifetime warranty vs..no warranty, your neighbor has a job vs Xi Wan Ping having a job. All this should be taken into account before someone goes off on a tangent about a company's products. The ability to make a "melt your retina thrower" is not hard, the ability to make millions of them cost effectively and have the quality reliable across the board is the challenge. So there it is.


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## passive101 (Dec 5, 2012)

I guess I'm going to go against many here and state that the mini mag is one of the handiest sizes with simplistic use out there. I got my dad a Rayovac Indestructable and he doesn't get the 2 brightness options or half engaging the switch instead of turning the light on and off again with full presses. Most of the guys in my family just have Maglites or other cheap lights with only 1 power option. 

I did get a Mini Maglite Pro Plus to keep in my office, because I like them and they're easy to use. If someone else needed a light they could figure it out because they know how to use one. If one of the office ladies needed a flashlight with the power out, I know they can easily turn on a maglite and I know the batteries would last good for them  

That said, they are weak, and under powered by todays standards. They are a classic American design and they're not going anywhere. They have a big head and smooth aluminum body so hanging them on belts, shelves, etc works well. Their design isn't to be run over, so I don't know why someone would try to destroy a tool, but to each their own on that one. 30 dollars is a lot of money for me when I purchased this one and I expect it will last me years or my life in my office until it's replaced by something else.


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## rahul_does (Jan 27, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> Definitely not what they used to be, back in the day.



Nothing really is, my friend, nothing really is! Anymore.

I had a 40 year old Wenger Swiss Knife that was gifted to me along with an AA Maglite and a 3D model.

I lost the AA and the Wenger.

I recently bought a new Wenger Tool Chest Plus and it is nowhere near the old one that I had for nearly 25 years!

Same could be said for Maglites. It is the trend towards cost cutting/rationalization that leads to constant degradation of components' quality and that reflects on the finished product.

Accept and live with it!


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## NoNotAgain (Jan 27, 2014)

Comparing "old" Mini Mag lights to "new" Mini Mag lights show that Mag has changed their manufacturing processes. Like all companies, you make changes or the go out of business. Big box stores demand product at cut rate prices. Either sell to them on the cheap or you no longer have a market place to sell to. Companies like Stihl refuse to sell in big box stores. They would have to cheapen up the product line to compete with the likes of Chinese manufactured power tools. It protects their dealer network which for professionals means a lot.

All manufacturers evaluate their manufacturing processes from time to time and make changes that reduce costs without compromising final quality. The bean counters rule when if comes down to manufacturing and quality.

Until I retired, I used a lot of Starrett precision measuring tools. Older Starrett micrometers and calipers all had the scale markings engraved on the tools. Newer tools went to laser etching. Did it effect form, fit or function? No. Still like the older tools though as they have a smoother feel.It costs less to use a laser than engraving, so the change was made.

As for Led Lenser lights like the P7 or T7, I like the battery holders that they use compared to the holder used by Fenix on the TK41. Led's spring loaded pins appear more robust than the bent plates used by Fenix. I own both lights and have no complaints about their quality. Are there features I'd like to see incorporated? Yes their are, but for a cost verses benefit basis, they are what they are.


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## CaptainBrock (Jan 28, 2014)

Oh yes, JUNK-EEEE! My biggest complaint was intermittent power, which carried forward from the AA incandescent mags, seemingly from the twisty-head ON-switch feature. There is no mod or aftermarket remedy for this flakiness. It is a fatal flaw. I do not want a flashlight that cuts out! 
I finally got smart and gave myself a break with a Quark Tactical QT2A Gen 2. Problem solved. No going back to the stone age.


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## Lord Flashlight (Jun 7, 2014)

I got this basic minimag LED on ebay a few months ago for a cheap price. It didn't say on the packaging what the lumens were. The basic (non pro) ones were 69 or 77 lumens weren't they? Anyway, considering it's a 10 hour run time and 31 one hours on 25% power I think it's a respectable level for general use. The high level is better than the medium setting on most of the other lights I have. Considering all the high powered more expensive lights I have, I feel guilty for thinking they got it right here with the minimag LED. Time for a reappraisal?


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## martinaee (Jun 7, 2014)

martindb said:


> ... Whenever I tell somebody that I collect high end flashlights, their response is always "ones like maglites?"



Yeah... I just usually keep my hobby to myself. Too many people see it as a weird thing unfortunately. I say let them keep their cheap 1 dollar rayovac lights. When the zombie apocalypse comes we'll see who is laughing


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## LRJ88 (Jun 9, 2014)

Maglites still have one thing going for them that few other lights have to the same degree; an open modding platform at a low price. If you get an old incan 2xAA Mag you can do pretty much anything to it in forms of installing new systems and batteries. The D models have always been good for all kinds of different mods, from roar of the pelican to making a silencer out of it. They can be used as inexpensive, watertight containers, you can use them as platforms for various other electronics (including a setup that converts your 3D Mag into a mobile charging station for cellphones and such), you can make anything out of them that is possible with a good, watertight aluminium tube. 

Also, if you have a 3D+ light it can also be used as an improvised baton/hammer, but let's not get into extremes here.


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## Tmack (Jun 9, 2014)

My favorite maglite mod. 

The mega maglaser  
3w 445nm, voltage monitor, key switch arming. 

One if the longest runtimes you can get with a high power laser, without going fully custom.


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## drillbritz2ov (Jun 9, 2014)

I have a 2d maglite with a niteize led upgrade it lies under my bed as a just in case of emergency torch and also doubles as a hammer for knocking tacks in the wall when hanging pictures and other such items.its pretty much bulletproof.10 yrs or so on its original batts


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## Rifter (Jun 10, 2014)

Tmack said:


> My favorite maglite mod.
> 
> The mega maglaser
> 3w 445nm, voltage monitor, key switch arming.
> ...




Yeah it seems laser hosts is all they are good for nowadays.


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## PierceTheNight (Jun 10, 2014)

The Mag Mini Pro is a great flashlight for non-flashaholics. Simple, traditional, bright, reliable, commonly used batteries, available in retail stores, American made. The Pro does not have the issues the Mag Mini LED had.


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## Tmack (Jun 11, 2014)

Rifter said:


> Yeah it seems laser hosts is all they are good for nowadays.



I build maglite lasers constantly, and have never even thrown batteries in to see what kind of light they put out lol. Once I open the package, they are gutted. They are just outdated imo. With the new lights out, they have little to offer.


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## eff (Jun 11, 2014)

Lord Flashlight said:


> I got this basic minimag LED on ebay a few months ago for a cheap price. It didn't say on the packaging what the lumens were. The basic (non pro) ones were 69 or 77 lumens weren't they? Anyway, considering it's a 10 hour run time and 31 one hours on 25% power I think it's a respectable level for general use. The high level is better than the medium setting on most of the other lights I have. Considering all the high powered more expensive lights I have, I feel guilty for thinking they got it right here with the minimag LED. Time for a reappraisal?


The minimag is a nice light. It's too bad its price in Europe (around 40$-50$) places it on the same market segment as Fenix and Olight more powerful 2AA lights. Because of that it's more interesting to get other brands lights (Fenix, etc...). With a price closer to the US price, it would be more popuplar here.
Regarding the runtime, someone did a test once : http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/maglite_minimagled.htm
You get 3h30mn before reaching 50% of the total output and approximately 3h45mn until it drops close to 0%. Based on my experience, after that, you should get 0.2 or 0.3 lumen for a few more hours.


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## Lord Flashlight (Jun 11, 2014)

That looks like a review of the first one they did, before they added a 25% lower setting. 10 hours on High, 31 hours on low, as I said originally.


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## Richwouldnt (Jun 12, 2014)

Probably silly but I just updated two Maglites, a 3C and a 3D, with the Fusion 36 LED $26 shower head from an eBay seller. I also updated my 4D with the Terralux 310M 3 level drop-in. None IMO come close to their claimed Lumens outputs but they are huge improvements compared to the original incandescent bulbs. All the beams now are very floody but without the holes that flood adjustment gave with the original bulb and reflector combination or even with the old LED conversion modules which used the original reflector. Good indoor lights now with the floody beams w/o hot spots or big holes in the beams.

One advantage of Maglites is that you can get almost all of the parts for them. Try that with another brand. I needed a replacement battery holder for a ThruNite and it is coming from Singapore. IMO it should be listed as an accessory for rapid battery changes capability for emergency and S&R personnel.


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## Lord Flashlight (Jun 12, 2014)

Richwouldnt said:


> One advantage of Maglites is that you can get almost all of the parts for them. Try that with another brand.



Also we know Maglites still work after 20 years. That's still yet to be proven with these modern brands on the market (assuming they'll still be around in 20 years).


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## photonmaster (Jun 12, 2014)

I don't agree Mag are becoming junk, I think they have been junk for a long time already.

They are in the same category as tons of Chinese budget lights out there. Actually, in many cases, not even.


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## Maglite Man (Dec 22, 2016)

Hey everyone, new guy to the forum here. From my username, you can probably tell what I am going to post on this thread. However, It is important that I point out some things about me first. I am young to be a Maglite fan and became one for a several reasons, but started with my father's 2D Mag he bought in the early 80's as an FAA requirement to have aboard the jets he was flying at the time. My childhood was spent with junk lights such as dorcy, energizer, and others. My first Maglite was a 2D led Pro (272 lumens) bought in 2012. At the time, I was blown away! what an improvement...I quickly bought a minimag pro+ 2 AA which has 245 lumens on high and roughly 60 on low. Both high and low were impressive, but the more impressive thing was the abuse that it took. I work in a maintenance position, and also live on a farm. I EDC'd that light for 2 years, and in that time it acquired several scratches and dings. I dropped it off of ladders 6 feet high and up to concrete floors and more! That light never once failed me! I was always pleasantly surprised to see it lighting up the floor when I accidentally knocked it off the ladder. In 2014, I bought a Thrunite TN12 which I thought I would like better because it had greater output (1050 lm compared to 245) and far more modes. But in just a year, it started flickering after taking practically no abuse, and certainly no falls. Thrunite did respect their warranty and replaced the light, but my mini mag took far more abuse and I still have it today! I also see no reason to hate the Maglites, they do what they are supposed to, light things up, are made in the USA, have a lifetime warranty, and have always turned on when I needed them. I will admit they are not keeping pace with the other brands like Olight, Thrunite, Zebralight, etc, but they work fine and are tough as nails! So I would agree with those that say they are not really marketed towards flashaholics, but I see no reason NOT to like them...I can see just fine with 87 lumens (per my mini mag AAA led). I don't need 9000 lumens like the new Olight just to see in the dark, and the hole in the beam pattern has never really bothered me when in flood mode. I also recently tortured a brand new Maglite solitaire (47 lumen variety). I ran over it with my jeep repeatedly and sunk it to beyond two meters after being compromised. I also threw it as high as I could several times to have it land on concrete, and the thing just won't die! :twothumbs Bottom Line: There are several flashlight companies making quality lights, but that does't mean Maglites are junk by any means!


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## bykfixer (Dec 23, 2016)

Good post. Welcome to the site.

Maglite are still relevant in the consumer market. With all the latest gadgets and gizmos sitting beside them on store shelves for less and less cost the Maglite market sure isn't what it once was. 

The basic idea behind Maglite products, much like Wrangler jeans, Kool Aid, Band Aids and Converse All Stars may not be "up with the times" but they were great ideas thought of long ago and still retain value in the lives of millions despite what the fashion crowd thinks.

A while back I read a transcript between an NPR interviewer and Tony Maglica in which the discussion focused around remaining viable while surrounded by so many competitors. The jist was that more efficient production with investments in new equipment was able to provide more consistancy in the items coming off the assembly line. Apparently Maglite has many long term employees and attracts motivated individuals to replace those retiring.

According to industry insiders ole Tony now lives on an island off the Ukraine and has very little to do with the goings on at Maglite these days. So when the big sized Mini Mags arrived this year that was the next generation of thinking at Maglite, not Tony. 

We'll see what the future holds but one thing for certain is the basic shape of a Maglite will remain as that is part of what (at a glance) makes them stand out in the crowd as only a "Maglite" can. Hopefully the basic concept of an electric candle with Maglite reliability will remain as well. 

Afterall when sudden darkness hits or one just needs some adjustable light to see by the Maglites in still production today are designed to last decades due to simple genious parts n pieces assembled in a state of the art facility by dedicated employees.
In my humble view that is a fashion that never goes out of style.


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## xxo (Dec 23, 2016)

They might not be trendy, but they are built to last and still built in the USA. Many people looking for a dependable flashlight still look to Maglite with good reason - they are very affordably priced and the quality is there. It amazes me how well the aluminum parts on Mags are machined, especially considering their price point and that they are made in the US. The old incandescent Mags might be out of date, but the latest generation LED Mags hold their own for features and performance; even though they might not have 67 modes and thousands of lumens. With solid dependability, simple user interfaces, good throw - Mags just work.

BTW according to this article from 2015 Tony was still working 12 hours per day 6 days a week and hasn't taken a vacation in over a decade:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418632/inventor-never-takes-vacation-michelle-malkin


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## bykfixer (Dec 23, 2016)

Thanks for that interesting read!


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 23, 2016)

I dont have any LED Maglites but i do have a few of the incandescent version, 1x3D 1x2D 1x6D 2x3C and i just buy led drop-ins and they work good enough for me.

John.


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## ven (Dec 23, 2016)

Love or hate, maglite have played a large part in most of our flashlight uses , for me it started my journey many years back. I mean early 90's, how desirable was a 3d mag! Also played a part towards the lights we have today..............


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## emarkd (Dec 23, 2016)

Yeah I think many of us want to love maglite because many of us have a lot of history and nostalgia around the brand. But to attempt to argue that maglite=reliable and all others don't will fall flat fast. The truth is that maglite is behind the times in a bad way and there are plenty of lights out there that are much more capable and just as reliable. 

I still buy a maglite about once a year or so just to see for myself what they're up to, so I do have first hand experience with current maglites. One day I hope to buy one and love it for what it is now, not what it used to be. That day hasn't come for me yet.


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## bykfixer (Dec 23, 2016)

I bought the ML25 for what it is. C sized mini mag. I bought 2 and 3 cell sized in both incan and LED. LED's got flashlightlens.com difussed lenses to clean up the beam and the incan versions were hotwired with 18mm cells, a 4 cell bulb and a TL3 bulb to make them about 200 lumens with stock parts n pieces.


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## rookiedaddy (Dec 23, 2016)

@Maglite Man, nice post. :twothumbs

my small "Tony" Maglica team...





I'm especially fond of the 2xAAA Mini Maglite (an older 84 lumens LED), a 2xAAA light that I didn't know I needed until I owned one. Yes, it is really that good.


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## bykfixer (Dec 23, 2016)

Good pic RD.

Can you elaboarate on 2, 3 and 4 from the right? The bezels, tail caps and the extra button on the red one?


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## the0dore3524 (Dec 23, 2016)

Hey, whatever floats your boat...some people love them and some hate them


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## rookiedaddy (Dec 24, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Good pic RD.
> Can you elaboarate on 2, 3 and 4 from the right? The bezels, tail caps and the extra button on the red one?


Thanks mate.
2, 3 and 4 are all stock body except the battery and bulb. the green dot on the red one is GITD sticker . I wrapped the head and tail with silicone self-fusing tape to cushion drops and knocks. I can't explain it but I likes to keep my C and D Mags incan. 
the 2-lumen MagLite Solitaire still put a smile on my face everytime I turn it on.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 24, 2016)

I have 2x3C Maglite`s incandescent that i have never used as i hate the reverse clicky the button is really soft compared to the solid feel of the D cell incandescent Maglite`s

John.


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## Elkins45 (Dec 24, 2016)

There's a 2AA LED Maglite sitting atop the gun safe in my garage. It has one job: let me look into the rear of the safe in the dark to find one particular pocket knife or magazine. When you twist the head it briefly flashes for just a fraction of a second but otherwise remains dark. I have changed batteries, scrubbed the contacts with an eraser, etc. but that only fixed it for a couple of months. I suppose I could spend $5 to send it back for repair, but that's a good percentage of what I paid for it.

The best warranty is the one you never have to use.


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## Mr Baz (Dec 24, 2016)

the0dore3524 said:


> Hey, whatever floats your boat...some people love them and some hate them



Used Maglite for years but then that was before the LED tech came along. Always solid torches..the company I think relied more on marketing and rep than innovating in technology. They kinda got left behind. I did a car boot and sold off my last ones. Tried a few LED models not that impressed


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## bykfixer (Dec 24, 2016)

rookiedaddy said:


> Thanks mate.2, 3 and 4 are all stock body except the battery and bulb. the green dot on the red one is GITD sticker . I wrapped the head and tail with silicone self-fusing tape to cushion drops and knocks. I can't explain it but I likes to keep my C and D Mags incan. the 2-lumen MagLite Solitaire still put a smile on my face everytime I turn it on.



Thanks. 

Glow in the dark sticker and bumpers!!! Great ideas. I like the Solitaire incan too. 

Although I don't use my XL50 very often I really like that one too. Using Eneloop Pro triple A's in it has provided excellent runtimes. And the timing for two quick clicks for low is flawlessly easy. 



Elkins45 said:


> There's a 2AA LED Maglite sitting atop the gun safe in my garage. It has one job: let me look into the rear of the safe in the dark to find one particular pocket knife or magazine. When you twist the head it briefly flashes for just a fraction of a second but otherwise remains dark. I have changed batteries, scrubbed the contacts with an eraser, etc. but that only fixed it for a couple of months. I suppose I could spend $5 to send it back for repair, but that's a good percentage of what I paid for it.The best warranty is the one you never have to use.



Try giving the tailcap threads a light scuff with sandpaper or clean them with a de-oxidizer. If your safe is in a non climate controled enviornment that light is subject to a lot of temperature swings, which may cause oxidation quicker than normal. 

But sometimes the switch on LED models gets stuck 'open'. Perhaps a tailcap spring stretch will push harder on the batteries adding additional force to the switch and allow the circuit to close.


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## etc (Dec 24, 2016)

I got some over black friday sale, the new 2C and 3C mags, the ones you have to twist with no buttons, I am shocked how low lumens they have. Like something from 2008.


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## hiuintahs (Dec 24, 2016)

Mr Baz said:


> Used Maglite for years but then that was before the LED tech came along. Always solid torches..the company I think relied more on marketing and rep than innovating in technology. They kinda got left behind. I did a car boot and sold off my last ones. Tried a few LED models not that impressed


That's exactly how I feel. They got left behind years ago. I, along with others used their hosts to make LED flashlights early on.

I think they were slow to adapt to LED technology because their incandescent lights were still selling and I suppose from a market standpoint, they pushed that for as long as they could get away with it. Now after trying a couple of their LED lights a couple of years ago, I was not impressed. Now maybe they have improved but I was soured on them and not tempted to buy anymore. I suppose if there were threads on CPF talking about them, then it would perk up my interest..........but I don't see it.

I agree Maglite was king in the 80's and 90's and up through the mid 2000's. That simply did not translate over into the LED world.


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## kj2 (Dec 24, 2016)

I do think Mag is coming back, with their led versions. Look at the ML300LX. Sure it isn't a fancy light but for simple use, it's perfect. Throw in a couple of 10.000mAh D-cell batteries, and you're good to go for a long time.
Still thinking about buying a ML300LX 2D. Stated runtime is decent for alkaline D cells, let alone, when you put some 10.000mAh batts in it. And the Maglite product prices aren't that bad when you're in the US.


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## tuelleric (Dec 24, 2016)

Here in Germany they still have a very good reputation. In the 80's/90's it was the flashlight to go, nothing else was available here that was comparable, not even close (except Surefire 6P that was not affordable here to anyone...). Every friend of mine had at least a D-cell Maglite and a Minimag. If you had the 6D you was the king.

This thinking is still in the heads of quite a lot of people, they still buy incan Mags and think they get a state of the art flashlight. Just go to the German Amazon site and read the reviews. I wondered that they still sell incans there, strange to me. But why not, if people are happy with it...

To me, the form factor and the very simple user interface of the classic Maglites is really appealing, I still use my old Mags for modding projects and buy some cheap hosts from time to time. But honestly, I would never buy a LED flashlight from them. I think it might just be a matter of time when they will face the same fate as the traditional TV or cellphone makers...


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## emarkd (Dec 24, 2016)

kj2 said:


> I do think Mag is coming back, with their led versions. Look at the ML300LX. Sure it isn't a fancy light but for simple use, it's perfect. Throw in a couple of 10.000mAh D-cell batteries, and you're good to go for a long time.
> Still thinking about buying a ML300LX 2D. Stated runtime is decent for alkaline D cells, let alone, when you put some 10.000mAh batts in it. And the Maglite product prices aren't that bad when you're in the US.



I bought an ML300LX. That's how much I want Maglite to succeed - I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. Here it is hanging out with some of my other lights:






But honestly, its just not a very good light. The host is great, classic Maglite with a touch of updated design which is awesome. Machining is clean, ano is beautiful. But the really important part - the _emission_ - isn't great. The tint is too cool, the output is quite low, especially for a light of this size, and the "zooming" mechanism is almost a joke - dirty, ringy beam in any position. Plus the UI is very simple (not always a bad thing, but still not a very flexible light).

This is clearly a light that's trying to appeal to everyone -- the "premium light" crowd and the basic walmart shopper. And the result is that its not very good at anything. So overall, a disappointment. I wish I didn't feel that way, but I do. Come on Maglite, _impress_ me again! Please!


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## kj2 (Dec 24, 2016)

I like the matte stealthy look Mag went for with the ML300LX. They should drop the zoom feature. That would solve the ringy-beam part. Give it an OP reflector to smooth out the beam, and create a nice all-rounder. 
Most of the times 500 lumens on max, is enough for me. 600 > 1000 or even more lumens is cool, but I rather prefer extra runtime. Specially with a light that's been used in- and around the house and in the car.


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## emarkd (Dec 24, 2016)

kj2 said:


> They should drop the zoom feature.



And quit building for primary-first power. Really those two changes would go a long way, but I don't see Maglite doing it. They want to hold on to those bits of their past, even if they're way past their prime.


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## Mcgrimes (Dec 24, 2016)

In my experience, everyone had a maglite solitaire that came as a £20 add on gift set, pretty useless,

Still, wouldn't like to get beat with a 4D


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## Sambob (Dec 24, 2016)

Well I can understand you're disappointment with the 2AA mini led non Pro ver I started with the Ican, not much better then a lighter but a very well made light, on to their 1st led I believe a 1 watt...miles above the Ican next my first 2AA mini-pro I practically crapped my pants 226lm so In the context of their time these were great little lights.
Comparing them to now anything less than the pro ver yeah... crap ,why are they still around? Because you can get one almost anywhere.


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## JanezFord (Dec 24, 2016)

My first proper flashlight I've bought was the 2AA Maglite incan. I still have it, it has seen a lot of abuse and is about 25 years old. Still works every time I take it of the shelf, mostly just to go down the memory lane. Wish I could say the same for other brands and I have tried manny over the years. So in my opinion maglites are not junk. Maybe not bleeding edge in recent development but definitely not junk.

JF


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## lumen aeternum (Jan 1, 2017)

Around the house, the 2AA Mini Mag gets used 90% of the time.
It fits into my "small" EMT pouch so is always with me.
The cars have 3D with pointy glass-breaker tailcaps, so they can be used as a weapon in two ways.
The Mag-Tac goes in a grab-able location at night.

The twist-head is the only flashlight my wife can remember how to use -- fancy mode buttons, and trying to find a tail cap button, are beyond her desire to learn.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 1, 2017)

I use a 2XAA [email protected] when doing the cell phone test as a control because the PWM is so awful. I do like the larger D cell [email protected] as they throw far, can be used to beat down zombies trying to chew on my ankles and are durable. Smashed one on the reloading table like a club because was being stupid. Still worked.


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## arKmm (Jan 1, 2017)

Considering the new generation ML50L and ML300L can be had for about $35/40, they still form a good budget option for the householder or layperson. 600 lumen is more than enough for most things and the focus allows you to get a good throw on. Yes there's better, but those better options cost a lot more. 

I use a 2D ML300L at work and have done for the last two years. It's got no failings. The only thing it left me wanting for was higher lux/lumen because I'm a flashaholic and know what's out there. Any normal person would be satisfied. As it uses an XML emitter, I've just upgraded one to XHP50 and it's taken it up to 2500 lumen in a really nice neutral tint.


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## LeanBurn (Jan 2, 2017)

It all began with Maglite for me. The glow of 27 Lumens lit up everything I needed it to with perfect 100 CRI tinting from 1999 to today still delivers for 8.5hours.

My other lights are much smaller, run longer, much brighter and much dimmer. My smallest light cost about the same as the 2D did back then. Their abundance of electronics have never failed me, yet I know the 2D is simple elegance that seemingly will continue after all else is unresponsive.

Have the new Maglites captured so many aspects better than anything else out there for me? My recent purchases illustrate a market that is exponentially larger and complex. There is a light for every person and Maglite will continue to be purchased by those who want them.


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## maglite mike (Jan 2, 2017)

emarkd said:


> I bought an ML300LX. That's how much I want Maglite to succeed - I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. Here it is hanging out with some of my other lights:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 you can change the modes by twisting the tail cap.


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## emarkd (Jan 2, 2017)

maglite mike said:


> you can change the modes by twisting the tail cap.


OK, but why? It's got an e-switch. And that doesn't really address any of my complaints with the light.


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## maglite mike (Jan 2, 2017)

lumen aeternum said:


> Around the house, the 2AA Mini Mag gets used 90% of the time.
> It fits into my "small" EMT pouch so is always with me.
> The cars have 3D with pointy glass-breaker tailcaps, so they can be used as a weapon in two ways.
> The Mag-Tac goes in a grab-able location at night.
> ...


 Ease of use: this is one of the features of Maglites that is often over looked. The single mode Maglites are especially easy to use. I stock all of my company trucks with 3d 2nd Gen led maglites. One mode, long run time, durable, inexpensive and too big to lose.


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## tuelleric (Jan 2, 2017)

maglite mike said:


> too big to lose


Good point indeed.


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## emarkd (Jan 2, 2017)

Maybe, but it seems completely backwards to me. Who wants a huge light with middling performance? Not me. But then I can keep up with my gear.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as overly negative. I only do it because I truly wish that maglite would get their s$*t together and build a light that actually competes on the current market. And making bs excuses for why they're still good lights doesn't help anything.

Or maybe I'm just no longer in their target demographic and I'll have to live with that. If that's the case then so be it.


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## maglite mike (Jan 3, 2017)

emarkd said:


> Maybe, but it seems completely backwards to me. Who wants a huge light with middling performance? Not me. But then I can keep up with my gear.
> 
> I'm sorry if I'm coming across as overly negative. I only do it because I truly wish that maglite would get their s$*t together and build a light that actually competes on the current market. And making bs excuses for why they're still good lights doesn't help anything.
> 
> Or maybe I'm just no longer in their target demographic and I'll have to live with that. If that's the case then so be it.


It depends on what you are looking for in a light I guess?


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