# new set screw tool for Mag D switch



## nighttrails

I just purchased a brand new Mag 6D and went to swap out the switch with an AW 3 level driver. Could not get the stock switch out because the set screw is no longer turned with a 2mm allen wrench. I called Maglite and the person I spoke with confirmed this but could not tell me what exactly the needed tool is or its size since it's "so new". Anybody know what kind and size tool is now required for the set screw?


----------



## mrartillery

I always use a 5/64 allen, comes out every time. :thumbsup:


----------



## nighttrails

The person I spoke to at Maglite said it no longer is an allen wrench, but could not tell me just what it is now. I'm thinking a star wrench, but I don't have any that small. I guess I might pick up a set and see.


----------



## mrartillery

That's odd, I haven't ran across one of these yet, I've got several of the new design without the spring on the bottom but none yet that won't accept allen wrenches.


----------



## Justin Case

Take a flashlight and look down the switch stem to see what's in there. I can see the outline of an Allen head in my various D Mag switches.


----------



## rjr104

I ran into this too on a recently purchased 2D. I haven't figgured it out yet, but if I had to guess I'd be looking at torx. I have some hobby size torx if I can find them. I'll report back.
RJ


----------



## jabe1

Nothing that I have (yet) will work :sigh:. It looks to me like it is a Torx security screw, approx 0.65, my small 0.70 will not fit down the switch.


----------



## Aircraft800

I had one that I believed the set screw was a reject, or damaged. I used a Bristol Wrench to get it out, pitched it in the trash, and installed the regular setscrew.

Maybe it wasn't a screwed up one, maybe some lame attempt at security? Try a Bristol key, not sure of the size, I just got a small cheep kit at a flea market.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Aircraft800 said:


> I had one that I believed the set screw was a reject, or damaged. I used a Bristol Wrench to get it out, pitched it in the trash, and installed the regular setscrew.
> 
> Maybe it wasn't a screwed up one, maybe some lame attempt at security? Try a Bristol key, not sure of the size, I just got a small cheep kit at a flea market.



Hard to imagine they would intentionall switch over to such an obscure Bristol set screw.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Whan I tried to get a replacement mag switch from the UK supplier about a year ago now they said I would have to send it in as it required a special tool, I did mention the replacement switch kit came with an allen key so what was the deal, but they wouldnt have it...I had to send it in or no deal.


----------



## 737mech

I ran into this problem as well on a few new switches I bought from Zbattery. I have not looked into it to figure out the proper tool yet.

edit, just confirmed that the new set screw is in fact a torx bit but not sure what size. The T6 I had was a bit to small and the T15 was a bit to big. Just for the record the sizes go like this T6, T7, T8, T9, T10, then it jumps to T15.


----------



## Aircraft800

So I'm not crazy, there is a new one! I wish I wouldn't have pitched it in the trash, and taken a closer look and a few pictures!


----------



## nighttrails

If T6 is a bit too small, it must be T7 or T8. The smallest I have is T9 and it's too big. T7 is very similar in size to a 2mm allen, so it seems likely.


----------



## Billy Ram

All the replacement switches I've gotten came with a hex key. They don't include the hex or torx wrench any more:shrug:
Billy


----------



## nighttrails

Not having a T7 wrench, I was able to remove the new set screw by using a 2 mm allen wrench altered by grinding and shaping a standard screw driver blade onto it. Since the set screw has a 6 armed star pattern, two arms are directly opposite one another, allowing a standard screw driver blade to span across. Not "the right tool for the right job", but it easily removed the set screw.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Well, I ordered a new Mag D switch of the UK supplier, and it has arrived with an allen key in the pack...Didn't check if the screw was a different type, but I assume not as the key was included, sealed in the package....Sometimes I love it when the UK is slower than the US, for things like torch latest models.


----------



## Techjunkie

I thought I had a defect and pitched my screw into the trash too. What a pain in the butt that Mag is changing this. What could possibly be there motivation? Maybe to sell Mag branded, proprietary switch removal tools? :shakehead


----------



## Techjunkie

Turns out I still had it. Here's a crappy pic:







That's a hole in the center, not a post, so a security bit probably isn't necessary, just a torx of the right size. I'll bring it with me to Ace hardware and see if a #7 fits. Even if it does, finding a #7 torx driver with a shaft narrower than the bit might be a challenge.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Have you ever concidered they may be changing it because of 'us'


----------



## electromage

Raoul_Duke said:


> Have you ever concidered they may be changing it because of 'us'



People who buy Mag-Lites to modify are _still buying Mag-Lites_. I doubt they care all that much. It's probably got more to do with cost or reliability.


----------



## copperfox

I tried to get my tool in there, but it didn't fit. Or to phrase it another way, the screw is recessed farther than my tool can reach. The tool is a Husky (home depot) 8-in-1 precision torx screwdriver with sizes T4-T10 and T15.


----------



## 737mech

Sears has jewelers type torx drivers that will work. I have a couple, just not the right size.


----------



## Aircraft800

Are you sure that is a Torx? From your photo it looks like a Spline Key or a Bristol Wrench. I was able to remove mine with a spline wrench, but it was part of a incomplete set, and it's too small to have the size stamped on it, so I'm unsure of the size, something like a .048 or a .060

Now I wish I didn't pitch it in the trash, I thought it was a defect.


----------



## keith p

Better pic?

The smallest spline we have at work is .111 :sigh:


----------



## nighttrails

The photo Techjunkie posted is deceiving. From that photo you might think Bristol or spline wrench, but it is not. It's a star/torx.


----------



## conundrum07

Ok, I finally got my maglite apart. The set screw in mine was a Torx T8.


----------



## Justin Case

I very recently bought three D Mags -- two 2Ds and one 4D. The 4D uses the usual Allen head set screw. Both 2Ds appear to use this new Torx set screw since I can't get the switch out. I guess I'll have to get a long T8 torx wrench.


----------



## Techjunkie

I have this one on the way from DX, but being that the shaft is fatter than the bit, I'm not sure it will pass through the hole in the switch. For $1.39, I'll gamble. I think I recall seeing a set of L-shaped torx wrenches on Amazon along with the hex/allen wrench sets. What I'd prefer is a T-handle torx T8 though (like the 2mm hex one I have for my mags now).


----------



## mrartillery

Techjunkie said:


> I have this one on the way from DX, but being that the shaft is fatter than the bit, I'm not sure it will pass through the hole in the switch. For $1.39, I'll gamble. I think I recall seeing a set of L-shaped torx wrenches on Amazon along with the hex/allen wrench sets. What I'd prefer is a T-handle torx T8 though (like the 2mm hex one I have for my mags now).



Yeah, you may have to do some slight grinding on that to get it to go in. But at only a $1.40 you're not out much.


----------



## Justin Case

Wiha Tools has lots of Torx drivers. I ordered item #36648, the long-reach T8 Torx wrench.


----------



## SmurfTacular

Wow I'm glad this issue has surfaced. I ran into this problem today

I was ready to take apart a black 3D Mag. I took out my trusty 2mm allen wrench and stuck it in only to find that it was not turning :thinking:. This is literally the only allen wrench I own. So I went down to my local Ace hardware and bought a metric allen set, and a standard allen set. Non worked :scowl:

So what do I do? Go to CPF and find out why, and I find this thread.

Now it looks like I have to drive back to Ace and buy a Torque screw set.

EDIT: I went back to Ace and bought a Torx screw set, only to find that the smallest one is one size to big and doesn't fit through the hole. I went bet into the store and they don't sell any smaller sizes.
So I go down to Ganahl lumber to find that they just closed. How can my day get any worst!!! :mecry:

I guess the final solution is to wait for somebody to confirm an online seller that sells the size that fits.


----------



## Justin Case

Make sure that the shaft of the Torx driver is suitably slim (and long enough to reach the set screw). I checked the Torx drivers at Sears and none of them had a slim enough shaft that would fit in the Mag switch.I also checked straight-bladed precision screwdrivers at Sears and found the same problem. The shafts are typically tapered or stepped, and the larger diam shaft prevents the tool from reaching the set screw.

I hope the Wiha Torx driver I ordered works.


----------



## nighttrails

If you can't find a properly sized torx, and you are in a hurry, see my post #15. With a file or grinder you can easily make a 2mm allen wrench work.


----------



## LuxLuthor

This is pretty funny. I cannot think of any reason for them to change the type of setscrew to a somewhat obscure torx type that they know most people's tool set won't fit...other than a lame attempt to foil people like us wanting to mod them. I never had the hex (Allen) type strip, and have tightened/loosened hundreds of them.

I see my set of Wiha Torx would be too wide beyond the narrow 1" tip, and likely only that 36648 that Justin mentioned will work. It has a narrow shaft that is almost 4 inches long. Is the screw a T7 or T8? Above posts conflict.

I don't think I need any more mags though.


----------



## lctorana

LuxLuthor said:


> I don't think I need any more mags though.


Say what?


----------



## Justin Case

A 5/64" (2mm) Allen wrench is nominally 5/64" (0.078") flat-to-flat. Thus, point-to-point it is nominally 0.090", based on solving the simple geometry of a regular hexagon.

A T7 Torx is 0.078" (2mm) point-to-point. Looks slightly too small to fit a ground-down 5/64" Allen wrench, which has been shown to work as an expedient set screw removal tool. A T8 Torx is 0.090" (2.3mm) point-to-point. 

Looks to me like the size should be a T8.

I'll let folks know for sure when my Wiha T8 arrives.


----------



## LuxLuthor

lctorana said:


> Say what?



I don't think people would believe me if I told them how many Mag (mods) I have. LOL!


----------



## Aircraft800

LuxLuthor said:


> I don't think people would believe me if I told them how many Mag (mods) I have. LOL!




I'd love to see your museum! I just purchased my first Elephant.

I'll bet you have over 60 Mag-Lites.

@ Justin Case,
Keep us updated on a good source for the "T" Handle T8 or whatever tool you find works good. I have a "L" shaped one from a kit, but would like a Screwdriver or T type.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Aircraft800 said:


> I'd love to see your museum! I just purchased my first Elephant.
> 
> I'll bet you have over 60 Mag-Lites.
> 
> @ Justin Case,
> Keep us updated on a good source for the "T" Handle T8 or whatever tool you find works good. I have a "L" shaped one from a kit, but would like a Screwdriver or T type.



I'm sure it's over 100...but who's counting.


----------



## mrartillery

LuxLuthor said:


> I'm sure it's over 100...but who's counting.



Damn!


----------



## Justin Case

The Wiha T8 Torx wrench that I ordered *does not fit* into the Mag switch at all. The shaft is too fat. There seems to be the slightest taper to it.

When I match up my 5/64" Allen wrench from Maglite to the T8, the tip-to-tip distance of the T8 seems to match up to the point-to-point distance of the Allen wrench. So a T8 does look like the right size Torx. But the fit down the hole in the Mag switch really requires something that is 0.090" wide or smaller. You can see that there is little clearance when inserting the Allen wrench into the switch.

The Wiha T8 wrench tip goes in and then the rest of the wrench quickly hangs up on the taper.

I used a file to grind down the tip of a 5/64" Allen wrench into a flat-bladed screwdriver and removed the offending Torx set screw that way.


----------



## nighttrails

Justin Case said:


> The Wiha T8 Torx wrench that I ordered *does not fit* into the Mag switch at all. The shaft is too fat. There seems to be the slightest taper to it.
> 
> When I match up my 5/64" Allen wrench from Maglite to the T8, the tip-to-tip distance of the T8 seems to match up to the point-to-point distance of the Allen wrench. So a T8 does look like the right size Torx. But the fit down the hole in the Mag switch really requires something that is 0.090" wide or smaller. You can see that there is little clearance when inserting the Allen wrench into the switch.
> 
> The Wiha T8 wrench tip goes in and then the rest of the wrench quickly hangs up on the taper.
> 
> I used a file to grind down the tip of a 5/64" Allen wrench into a flat-bladed screwdriver and removed the offending Torx set screw that way.


 
I'm glad the filed down allen wrench worked for you. Once the set scew was removed did you check if it's a T8? 



LuxLuthor said:


> I'm sure it's over 100...but who's counting.


A photo of the entire collection would be inspiring! Have one to share?


----------



## SmurfTacular

So I just got off the phone with Maglite technical support, and they said that they did in fact change the screw for the switch mechanism. And they said that its a *custom shaped screw*. And you *can not* buy the special screwdriver in stores anywhere.


all of the following express my emotion
:mecry: :scowl: :thumbsdow :tsk: :hairpull: 

*WTF*


In the flashlight world, this is an epidemic. And has created a demand for this special screw driver. Please somebody make multiples of this special screwdriver!!!!!!!


----------



## Aircraft800

SmurfTacular said:


> So I just got off the phone with Maglite technical support, and they said that they did in fact change the screw for the switch mechanism. And they said that its a *custom shaped screw*. And you *can not* buy the special screwdriver in stores anywhere.
> 
> 
> all of the following express my emotion
> :mecry:  :scowl: :thumbsdow :tsk: :hairpull:
> 
> *WTF*
> 
> 
> In the flashlight world, this is an epidemic. And has created a demand for this special screw driver. Please somebody make multiples of this special screwdriver!!!!!!!



I call BS on that one, from the pictures and our research, it's just a T8. Need a straight shaft one, not one with a taper like the screwdriver type, straight shaft like a allen key "L" wrench.

I got mine out using a similar size spline wrench, and pitched it in the trash thinking it was a defect, and installed a standard hex set screw.

We'll find a source for them soon!


----------



## 65535

Wiha has good stuff, about the best in small/medium driver bits.

Crown Ace hardware in SoCal stocked a 6 piece T5-T10 driver set with shafts about the same size as the head. 

I'm surprised more people don't stock a nearly complete set of simple drivers. :shrug:


----------



## LuxLuthor

LOL! I called the MagLite Sales number on their website (909 947-1006), chose option "3" and the woman identified it as Warranty/Service/Technical Support, and was 'uber-cagey' about any discussions I had with her about this new setscrew part.

I told her that one of the main reasons I liked the Maglite was my ability to work on them myself, and could she tell me what the part was changed to since my 5/64th's Allen wrench did not work. She said, "No, I cannot tell you." I asked that something did get changed then, to which she replied "Yes." 

I asked what will I do if the switch breaks or no longer functions properly. She said "You will have to ship it back to us for repair." I asked if I will be able to replace a switch or purchase parts (including switches) from places like Flashlight King to work on it myself since I purchased the light, and enjoy working on things myself. 

Now get this (I wished I would have recorded the conversation), she said: "I believe Flashlight King is moving, and will no longer be carrying our products....and if you need new parts, you will now be required to give the Maglite serial number over the phone, and we will decide if something like a replacement switch can be sent to you, or if you will need to ship the whole light back to us."

I was as polite as possible, but laughed out loud at her, and asked if she was really being serious. She said "Yes."

I asked what would happen if I had a problem with the switch right now and wanted to fix it. She firmly asked "What is the Serial Number, when, and where did I purchase it from?" 

I said before I go and get it, can you just please tell me if I will be able to buy replacement part kits, including a new switch assembly, and tools to work on it like I used to do in the past? She said: "You will be required to give your light's serial number before we can do anything, but replacements parts should be available soon." I asked what 'soon' meant. She said: "Oh probably in a month or so, but I'm not sure."

I asked if they had any of the tools to remove the set screw that I could purchase right now and she said "No, but we should have some sometime soon." 

I again asked what did they change to setscrew to which used to be a hex 'Allen' 5/64th inch setscrew. She said: "Oh we changed it to a special custom part, but I'm not sure what the new part is called, or what kind of tool is required to remove it....and we don't have any of those tools available right now anyway." I asked if it was a Torx setscrew.

My phone line went dead.

About 10 seconds later, my phone rang, and the same woman asked "Are you the person asking about the Maglite switch?" I answered yes. She said, "OK, well I got your name and number from the caller ID, and was not sure why we got disconnected."

Not much else happened on the rest of that call except she thought that replacemet kits and tools should be available in about a month. I did ask her if this was still a USA made product, and if so, why wouldn't they have tools needed to install a switch for a paying USA customer. She said: "I don't know." I asked if there was something wrong with the old setscrew, as it seemed to work just fine. Again, "I don't know" was her response.

It was pretty obvious from the tone, defensiveness, and 'cagey' responses that this new setscrew part is something they have changed to thwart easy modding.

Just for the heck of it, I went to www.FlashlightKing.com and their website is down. So I went to archive.org and put in their address to pull up an old website version and got their phone number here. 

I called them (877-338-6600), and an answering service took my name and phone number. The answering service was aware that their website is down for about a month, but said that they could still take orders. She sent a message for them to call me. I asked if they were owned by Maglite, and she said "I don't think so." That was an hour ago, and no return call from Flashlight King yet.

This is funny.

Justin, did you confirm it is a Torx 8 setscrew? Just out of curiosity, does it look fundamentally different than the old setscrew, and does it have the same threads if someone wanted to replace it with an old 5/64th inch setscrew (which I assume Aircraft800 just did).


----------



## SmurfTacular

Well this confirms my accusation. It is a custom screw driver. From what this sounds like, its essentially a T8 torx screw with a narrow shaft

Interesting story though. Although I highly doubt the primary motivation behind changing the screw type cant be just thwarting us Mag modders. We bring them business by buying all their Mag's to modify them, I dont see why they would be so upset. I mean you recently stated you have over 100 Mags. If you where unable to mod your first Mag, would you buy 100 more?


----------



## Black Rose

LuxLuthor said:


> I'm sure it's over 100...but who's counting.


I think that calls for a family photo


----------



## Techjunkie

That T8 driver that I ordered from DX for $1.39 came in. The head does fit the set screw perfectly, but the shaft is too fat to fit through the switch hole. Amazon.com has two L-shaped torx keys that appear to not have a taper so they might fit, but I think I'll try grinding down this thing first before ordering either of those.


----------



## Aircraft800

@ LuxLuthor,

Wow, great read. This hole thing really torx me! We purchase more Mags and parts than anyone! I've turned a bunch of people onto modding, and they buy parts too. We are not the ones sending them back in for warranty or costing them anything!

It will just be more time before we have the tool, and modding will resume (it hasn't stopped me anyway, just an inconvenience).


----------



## nighttrails

LuxLuthor said:


> she thought that replacemet kits and tools should be available in about a month...
> It was pretty obvious from the tone, defensiveness, and 'cagey' responses that this new setscrew part is something they have changed to thwart easy modding.


 
The conversation I had with Maglite before starting this thread nearly a month ago was very similar to Lux’s. I also was told that the special tool might be available in a month or so. Apparently, there has been no updating on that projection.

Since that time, I had another interesting experience with Maglite when I wanted to secure a couple Magcharger heads for a project I was working on. The project involved adapting Magcharger heads to work on Mag D bodies; the two are not readily interchangeable. 

I called one of the parts suppliers listed by Maglite; offhand I don’t recall which one. The company told me that Magcharger heads were not on their standard parts list, but very kindly told me they would contact Maglite on my behalf to try and order the heads. I received a call back saying Magcharger heads were not available to order and that I should try contacting the Maglite warranty department myself. 

Upon calling the warranty dept and asking to purchase a Magcharger head, I was told that heads were not available to sell, but I should return the flashlight to the warranty and service department. Maglite is excellent about standing behind their products and warranty. So to be fair, I stated that there was no defect or warranty issue, I simply wanted to purchase Magcharger heads. Again, I was told the flashlight would have to be returned. Since putting a new Magcharger head on Magcharger body merely involves sliding it on, clearly the requirement of sending the flashlight back for warranty service isn’t about being sure the job is done right.

I asked how much the heads would be and was told I would be billed after the flashlight was inspected. I said in order to expedite things I would like to enclose a check when I sent the flashlight in and there was really nothing to inspect. A quote of $9.38 per head was then given

So, to obtain the heads, I packaged up two Magcharger bodies, and spent $10 to ship them and a $20 check across the country to the Maglite warranty and service department. Soon thereafter, a box was returned to me with the new Magcharger heads slipped onto the bodies.

One has to wonder why Maglite wouldn’t be happy to sell flashlights, parts, and accessories to anyone and everyone, including modders. With the technological advancements in flashlights, and stiff competition, you would think Maglite would be happy we are buying lots of their lights - even if it is to modify and put new legs on an old design.


----------



## Techjunkie

I had very nearly the same experience with RayOVac. I tore the rubber boot on two of their Sportsman Xtreme 4W 3C flashlights (while modding them) and for love or money, they would not agree to sell me replacements. They insisted on replacing the entire torches and wanted me to send them to them. Obviously that strategy didn't work for me as I'd be gettning back stock XR-E torches in exhange for some nice MC-E mods.

One of the things I like most about Maglite was the availability of inexpensive parts and for that matter, hosts. Since picking up a few spare Mag Rebel reflectors to mod the less expensive incan hosts with, I've been told by others that they've been shut out in getting those parts after me. Now instead of a $12 host and a $3 reflector, I'll have to spend twice that for the 2D Rebel version every time I do a mod using that reflector that I like so much.

This new Maglite strategy is very disappointing.


----------



## ProofTech

Do NOT buy a Bondhus T8 Star Torx Screwdriver (#34508). Although website pictures of this tool make it appear that there is no taper at the end of the screwdriver, there most certainly is. This thing will not fit through the hole in a Mag switch.


----------



## divine

I think that if you start out by telling them that you have been collecting [email protected] for a while. It is your hobby. That the reason you collect them is because you can take them apart, make them better, and put them back together. That this decision has a big impact of your motivation to buy [email protected] It makes your hobby more difficult. That they might believe, but I wouldn't go so far as saying 100, say maybe 30 or 40. 


You know, when you get 3 answers of "I don't know" that is probably your queue to ask for someone who might know the answers to your questions. It is really the higher ups in the tech department we should be asking these questions to if we hope to get any real answer.

It would be good to hear their reaction to "I was reading on the internet that [email protected] has changed their set screw." and you could even stretch the truth at that point to pressure them into defending their decision. "I heard it is a set screw that is made in china." or that "I read that Torx bought a number of [email protected] production facilities." :devil:


----------



## Alan B

Wow. Just amazing. Makes me wonder if the "Mag" based firestarters have them worrying about liability or some such... Hard to fathom.


----------



## parnell

LuxLuthor said:


> Just for the heck of it, I went to www.FlashlightKing.com and their website is down. So I went to archive.org and put in their address to pull up an old website version and got their phone number here.
> 
> I called them (877-338-6600), and an answering service took my name and phone number. The answering service was aware that their website is down for about a month, but said that they could still take orders. She sent a message for them to call me. I asked if they were owned by Maglite, and she said "I don't think so." That was an hour ago, and no return call from Flashlight King yet.


 
I dealt with Flashlight King about two weeks ago. Through the experience I learned two things: One, Flashlight King is moving and the site will be down for a month. 
Two, we are no longer able to purchase old style c switches. I ordered one from Flashlight King and was sent a new style. I spoke with them and they stated that, that was what maglite had sent them. I asked to call Maglite to get an old style.

I sent maglite an email inquiring about the part. They informed me that the old style switch was no longer available for purchase and that I would have to send the light into them to get it replaced.

It appears as though mag doesn't want there lights modded anymore.

All I can say is AMAZING!

BTW: Thanks to everyone for the research into the new set screw. I haven't come across one yet, but I am sure I will soon.lovecpf


----------



## conundrum07

Justin Case said:


> The Wiha T8 Torx wrench that I ordered *does not fit* into the Mag switch at all. The shaft is too fat. There seems to be the slightest taper to it.
> 
> When I match up my 5/64" Allen wrench from Maglite to the T8, the tip-to-tip distance of the T8 seems to match up to the point-to-point distance of the Allen wrench. So a T8 does look like the right size Torx. But the fit down the hole in the Mag switch really requires something that is 0.090" wide or smaller. You can see that there is little clearance when inserting the Allen wrench into the switch.
> 
> The Wiha T8 wrench tip goes in and then the rest of the wrench quickly hangs up on the taper.
> 
> I used a file to grind down the tip of a 5/64" Allen wrench into a flat-bladed screwdriver and removed the offending Torx set screw that way.



I initially got mine out with a T7, but after inspecting the set screw it was in fact a T8. I bought the Craftsman mini torx T5-T9 kit and yes, the shafts are too fat to fit through the hole. I wound up getting pissed and drilling the switch hole so the tool would fit. Next time ill have to buy a new tool or break out the grinder to make the tool shaft smaller. :shrug:

When I reassembled it I was able to use a standard set screw I bought from ACE so the threading appears to be standard. :thumbsup:


----------



## Black Rose

Techjunkie said:


> Since picking up a few spare Mag Rebel reflectors to mod the less expensive incan hosts with, I've been told by others that they've been shut out in getting those parts after me.


That's too bad. Those Rebel reflectors are great.



> Now instead of a $12 host and a $3 reflector, I'll have to spend twice that for the 2D Rebel version every time I do a mod using that reflector that I like so much.


 
Not sure about the US, but here in Canada, Lowes has the 2D Rebel on sale occasionally for $20.



> This new Maglite strategy is very disappointing.


I've just started investigating Mag mods as my next adventure, and what I'm reading is disappointing.


----------



## Midnight_Flasher

Is there any rule of thumb to avoid these new switches? Buy only older incans? Dont buy new LEDs or LED models at all? 

- I think here in Finland were have plenty of old stock of everything..


----------



## Techjunkie

Midnight_Flasher said:


> Is there any rule of thumb to avoid these new switches? Buy only older incans? Dont buy new LEDs or LED models at all?
> 
> - I think here in Finland were have plenty of old stock of everything..


 
The one that I bought that came with the new set screw was a 2D incan that included two Duracell D bateries in the blister pack. I go it from Home Depot for $14.87.



Black Rose said:


> That's too bad. Those Rebel reflectors are great.
> 
> Not sure about the US, but here in Canada, Lowes has the 2D Rebel on sale occasionally for $20.


 
I haven't seen the Rebel Mags that cheap in the US since the 2Ds were $15 each at Lowes the 3 weeks before Christmas. The next best deal since then has been the 3D and 2AA combined for $30 at Home Depot and Costco. I could use the 2AA, but I prefer the 2D to the 3D so I haven't pulled the trigger on that deal yet. $20 for the 2D Rebel Mag would get my business a few times a year for sure.

It would be a shame to waste all those Rebel pills though. Someone should come up with a way to repurpose them or trade them for stock incan switch assemblies. I'm OK either way, but I don't see how it makes more sense for Mag if I'm paying $20 at the register for the 2D rebel than if I'm paying $18 for the 2D incan, two batteries and a Rebel reflector. That Rebel pill assembly must be worth more than $2, even to Maglite. (I guess that's why they're usually $30, not $20.)


----------



## SmurfTacular

Is there any update on this?

Does anyone know if this would work?


I haven't done much experimenting myself, but by the looks of it, it should be able to shim into the hole and unscrew the mag switch screw.


----------



## jabe1

SmurfTacular said:


> Is there any update on this?
> 
> Does anyone know if this would work?
> 
> 
> I haven't done much experimenting myself, but by the looks of it, it should be able to shim into the hole and unscrew the mag switch screw.


No, it has a shoulder when it changes from torx to hex. Th shaft can only be as large as the torx part. I have ground the shaft of a .08 torx and it works well now, I looked all over town for one that didn't need grinding first though.


----------



## SmurfTacular

:thumbsdow

Maglite has thoroughly disappointed me


----------



## LuxLuthor

Aircraft800 said:


> @ LuxLuthor,
> 
> Wow, great read. This hole thing really torx me! We purchase more Mags and parts than anyone! I've turned a bunch of people onto modding, and they buy parts too. We are not the ones sending them back in for warranty or costing them anything!
> 
> It will just be more time before we have the tool, and modding will resume (it hasn't stopped me anyway, just an inconvenience).



I think what they resent is how we easily make their lights much better, and it's embarassing to them. :kiss:


----------



## nighttrails

LuxLuthor said:


> I think what they resent is how we easily make their lights much better, and it's embarassing to them. :kiss:


It's surprising Maglite doesn't look at modders as their own no-cost R+D lab and implement a few of the best ideas.


----------



## Alan B

Data point. Just bought a new 4D Jade and it has hex screw.

One less problem to deal with now. Already converted it to PHD 5x IMR C cells driving 64623. 150 watts, not bad for a stock looking 4D.


----------



## jcvjcvjcvjcv

Yeah, but isn't the Jade one a one-time only limited batch?

In other words: made in one batch a long time ago?


----------



## Alan B

jcvjcvjcvjcv said:


> Yeah, but isn't the Jade one a one-time only limited batch?
> 
> In other words: made in one batch a long time ago?



I don't really know, just thought it might be of some interest, probably is older as we expect new units to have the torx.


----------



## joeparker54

jabe1 said:


> ... I looked all over town for one that didn't need grinding first though.



I happened to notice you're in Cleveland - did you happen to check Production Tool Supply? When I need rare tools/bits PTS is where I usually find them. They have a website as well. I've never used it, however, since they're based out of SE Michigan and there's two stores less than 25 minutes from my house.


----------



## jabe1

joeparker54 said:


> I happened to notice you're in Cleveland - did you happen to check Production Tool Supply? When I need rare tools/bits PTS is where I usually find them. They have a website as well. I've never used it, however, since they're based out of SE Michigan and there's two stores less than 25 minutes from my house.



No, I kinda lost heart after a few places, so I just ground down a cheap one! Yeah, PTS does well, and not overpriced.


----------



## PCC

I just bought a 3D Rebel MagLED at Costco (2-pack with the Rebel Mini-Mag) and it has the Torx bit. I guess I'll take an L shaped Allen and grind it down to a flat blade screwdriver to take this one apart.


----------



## jcvjcvjcvjcv

Is there already any confirmation on what Torx size the new screw is?

PB - Swiss Tools makes several Torx tools with T6/7/8 with a 2.5mm diameter lead (is that the right word for the long stick of metal connecting the bit with the handle?).


----------



## PCC

I tried a T-8 Torx bit that I have and tried it in the set screw and it's an ever so slightly loose fit. I don't have a T-9 (if one exists) but the T-10 that I have does not fit.


----------



## TranquillityBase

Fingertip Flag, or Fingertip T-handle (T-handle style not shown in the photo), should be the ticket.

T6 and T8 are depicted *in* *the photo* (PR13 bulb for size reference), and *both are flag handled*.

T6, red, has a 32mm long x 3mm diameter shaft.

T8, orange, has a 39mm long x 2.3mm diameter shaft.

McMaster sells both styles.

FWIW, these are simply Torx L-keys with an overcast plastic handle.





The shaft on_ this particular_ T8 is the same diameter as the tip of the tool.


----------



## 357mag1

PCC said:


> I tried a T-8 Torx bit that I have and tried it in the set screw and it's an ever so slightly loose fit. I don't have a T-9 (if one exists) but the T-10 that I have does not fit.



I tried a T9 and it definitely does not fit. My Waha T8 fits nice and snug.

Actually after playing with it for a minute I noticed the T8 Waha didn't fit as snug as I initially thought. Looking at the head with a magnifying glass I believe this is actually a Torx Plus fastener. Perhaps somebody with a Torx plus set could verify. Regular Torx drivers will work in a Torx plus fastener but the plus drivers won't fit in a regular Torx fastener.


----------



## wquiles

I know I am late to the new T8 Torx switch set screw party, but I recently took some pictures and I was asked to post them here:

D light cut open to figure out what the heck the set screw was:






Once I got the screw out, I filed down one of my hex screws to fit:






Here are the two screws:






and a close-up, where you can clearly see the new screw is a Torx screw:






And specifically, a T8 Torx screw:







EDIT: A 5/64" is 0.07813" and a 2mm is 0.07874", so either one works fine in the standard hex screw.


----------



## jcvjcvjcvjcv

You actually cut open a brand new mag to figure out what screw was in there?


----------



## SmurfTacular

Wow great job Wquiles. You certainly did alot of research, and sacrificed a perfectly working Maglite.

:thumbsup: :twothumbs


----------



## wquiles

jcvjcvjcvjcv said:


> You actually cut open a brand new mag to figure out what screw was in there?


Yup. That shows my dedication to the hobby and attention to detail. Either that or it just provides further evidence that my brain does not work right/normal


----------



## Bullet Bob

LuxLuthor said:


> This is pretty funny. I cannot think of any reason for them to change the type of setscrew to a somewhat obscure torx type that they know most people's tool set won't fit...other than a lame attempt to foil people like us wanting to mod them. I never had the hex (Allen) type strip, and have tightened/loosened hundreds of them.
> 
> I think the issue is something else. On The High Road Forum ( mostly about guns) a poster had issues with several Mag lites all new that did not work. intermintent light and such and a used one that fell and quit working but was having issues as well before the fall.
> I suggested that the issue might be the switch had come loose and that he tighten the switch. I explained how in detail.
> Later the poster found that this was indeed the issue all along and the light works just fine now and he posted a great big Thank You.
> 
> Torx's were developed as the screws heads were failing before reaching the desired torque needed on aircraft screws is my understanding.
> Torx and Torx Plus allowed the screws to be tightened without the tool walking out of the screw and destroying the head. This has been a widespread change in industries all over. I guess Mag Lite just finally got with the program.


----------



## LuxLuthor

wquiles said:


> Yup. That shows my dedication to the hobby and attention to detail. Either that or it just provides further evidence that my brain does not work right/normal
> 
> 
> 
> jcvjcvjcvjcv said:
> 
> 
> 
> You actually cut open a brand new mag to figure out what screw was in there?
Click to expand...

That was the first reaction I had as well....followed closely by sheer admiration at your inner geek in action 'needing to know.' See now because of your contribution, we all have absolute certainty with photos.

:bow: :bow: :bow:



Bullet Bob said:


> LuxLuthor said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty funny. I cannot think of any reason for them to change the type of setscrew to a somewhat obscure torx type that they know most people's tool set won't fit...other than a lame attempt to foil people like us wanting to mod them. I never had the hex (Allen) type strip, and have tightened/loosened hundreds of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the issue is something else. On The High Road Forum ( mostly about guns) a poster had issues with several Mag lites all new that did not work. intermintent light and such and a used one that fell and quit working but was having issues as well before the fall.
> I suggested that the issue might be the switch had come loose and that he tighten the switch. I explained how in detail.
> Later the poster found that this was indeed the issue all along and the light works just fine now and he posted a great big Thank You.
> 
> Torx's were developed as the screws heads were failing before reaching the desired torque needed on aircraft screws is my understanding.
> Torx and Torx Plus allowed the screws to be tightened without the tool walking out of the screw and destroying the head. This has been a widespread change in industries all over. I guess Mag Lite just finally got with the program.
Click to expand...


Perhaps that is a more generous and accurate explanation. However, this scenario is why Maglite made the internal circular slot and retaining ring clip to block forward advancement, and punched/drilled an indented hole for the conical setscrew to fix into. If they had such a concern as you suggest, they could have put a dab of loctite on the threads.

I can only go by my own experience, and some of my mags have had the same switch assembly removed and tightened as many as 25-30 times without ever stripping the hex wrench threads. I have never had one come loose or lose contact with the aluminum wall.

Then there is all the negative historical baggage of how Maglite has aggressively sued so many as a regular business practice, the telephone conversations about this issue I described earlier, the complete lack of providing a torx key to customers when they knew full well that none of the torx wrenches people have would fit, none available for sale to anyone when asked...and upon being disconnected after the fundamental information was provided, the lady calling me back and quite rudely letting me know she had my name and number from caller ID, and wanted my Maglite serial number. 

But, perhaps you are correct in your interpretation.


----------



## 357mag1

It seems like they have stopped providing switches and repair parts and want you to ship a 15-30 dollar light to them for repair now. With today's shipping rates that make no sense.


----------



## wquiles

At least in the short term you can buy the switch assembly for "D" size lights online.. Here for lights with the "D" in the serial number - note photo still points to the old switch, not the new one, and that it includes the old style hex key!:
http://www.zbattery.com/D-Cell-Switch-Replacement-D-In-Serial-Number?sc=7&category=97920


The same place no longer carries/shows the switch for lights without the "D" in the serial number.


----------



## 357mag1

wquiles said:


> At least in the short term you can buy the switch assembly for "D" size lights online.. Here for lights with the "D" in the serial number - note photo still points to the old switch, not the new one, and that it includes the old style hex key!:
> http://www.zbattery.com/D-Cell-Switch-Replacement-D-In-Serial-Number?sc=7&category=97920
> 
> 
> The same place no longer carries/shows the switch for lights without the "D" in the serial number.



I tried that and Zbattery does not have them in stock per the email they sent me.


----------



## Eddie-M

Could you very carefully stick a small drill bit down the switch assembly (with a diameter just smaller than the torx set screw) and just drill out the thing, and with a little force, push the switch assembly out from the front end? Would it be possible to do this without damaging the threads of the switch assembly and buying a new set screw with a standard head from a hardware store? I have not run into one of these abominations yet, but I'm sure I will in no time!


----------



## nighttrails

Eddie-M said:


> Could you very carefully stick a small drill bit down the switch assembly (with a diameter just smaller than the torx set screw) and just drill out the thing, and with a little force, push the switch assembly out from the front end? Would it be possible to do this without damaging the threads of the switch assembly and buying a new set screw with a standard head from a hardware store? I have not run into one of these abominations yet, but I'm sure I will in no time!


Even without the proper torx wrench it's easy to remove the set screw. See post 15.


----------



## 357mag1

nighttrails said:


> Even without the proper torx wrench it's easy to remove the set screw. See post 15.



I tried that method and it screwed up the plastic components of the switch.


----------



## nighttrails

357mag1 said:


> I tried that method and it screwed up the plastic components of the switch.


 How exactly? If a 2mm allen wrench is used for the tool it should fit through the switch without engaging the plastic parts and only engage the metal set screw itself. There should be no risk to the plastic parts.


----------



## wquiles

More photos of the "problem" with the wide shaft on most all T8 tools.

I ordered and received two supposedly thin shaft T8 L hex tools, based on the photos on McMaster's catalog. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned including myself, the shaft is the problem, as it is wider than the actual tip. I simply use my grinder to turn down the shaft until they fit on the small hole in the switch - nothing pretty, but quick and effective.

Close up of the "step" in the shaft that causes the problem:







Here in the photo you have (top to bottom): Original screw hex wrench, grind T8 hex wrench, original T8 hex wrench not yet ground:






Here on this second shot, from left to right: original screw hex wrench, grind T8 hex wrench, grind T8 hex wrench:


----------



## SmurfTacular

You are the king of this thread :bow:

You should seriously sell those, i'd buy one. Currently im using a sanded down 2mm allen wrench to ghetto-rig the screw.


----------



## Brigadier

What a stupid thing for Mag to do. Doesn't make any logical sense, unless you are a lawyer.


----------



## 357mag1

nighttrails said:


> How exactly? If a 2mm allen wrench is used for the tool it should fit through the switch without engaging the plastic parts and only engage the metal set screw itself. There should be no risk to the plastic parts.



A 2mm allen wrench will fit the new switch opening as well but not so with the T8 Torx. So you have to go to a bit bigger than a 2mm allen. That caused the plastic switch parts to stick because the inner plastic flexes and then binds vice cutting cleanly. Somebody a little more meticulous might have better luck than I did.

I went with the same method wquiles used, made a T8 Torx smaller in diameter and now they are no problem.


----------



## LuxLuthor

SmurfTacular said:


> You are the king of this thread :bow:
> 
> You should seriously sell those, i'd buy one. Currently im using a sanded down 2mm allen wrench to ghetto-rig the screw.



It would not surprise me if someone modified a Torx for sale with the expressed purpose of being able to fit and remove Maglite's new set screw, thereby depriving them of their repair fee, that they would sue the individual. Never mind if they would prevail, it is the "wear you down with legal expenses" strategy they would perhaps intend.

Of course if some Chinese company did it (as they always do)--beyond the reach of USA law, that would be ideal. In the meantime, it is easy to do what wquiles did with an electric grinding wheel, or Dremel.


----------



## TranquillityBase

If it helps in the search...the orange T8 flag show in my photo (post #74)...as far as I can tell, the shaft is the same diameter as the tool tip. There's two imprints molded into the handle; SFS and SWISS.


----------



## wquiles

Would those in your picture be these, right?
link ...

Of course the trick is to see who we can buy these from and buy one to try out


----------



## TranquillityBase

wquiles said:


> Would those in your picture be these, right?
> link ...
> 
> Of course the trick is to see who we can buy these from and buy one to try out


Looks like you found the source Will 

McMaster sells the fingertip t-handle style, and the price is very reasonable (between $2 and $3 each).

If you call McMaster and ask them to verify, I'm confident they will do a bin pull, and let you know if the shaft diameter is equal to the tip diameter.


----------



## PJ

I found a 7 pc. folding Torx driver set that works. It is a Chesco model 88056 with sizes from T-6 to T-10,T15 and T-20. The UPC number is 038548880563.

Updated on 3-10-2011: There are 2 different Chesco 88056 tools



:thumbsup:The 'good' Chesco set is 3" long closed, has slotted screws holding it together and has the Chesco name stamped on the right side. The T8 works on a 3D Mag LED.


:thumbsdowThe set I bought from Ebay is 3 5/8" long, has Allen screws holding it together and has the Chesco name stamped on the left. This one does not fit.


----------



## 357mag1

In the local hobby shop I noticed a 2mm Flat blade screw driver selling for $3 so I bought it to try. works like a champ and then I change the set screw to an allen head.

The maker of this screwdriver is dynamite and the part number is DYN2829. The have a website (www.dynamiterc.com) if anyone is interested.


----------



## wquiles

TranquillityBase said:


> Looks like you found the source Will
> 
> McMaster sells the fingertip t-handle style, and the price is very reasonable (between $2 and $3 each).
> 
> If you call McMaster and ask them to verify, I'm confident they will do a bin pull, and let you know if the shaft diameter is equal to the tip diameter.



Well, I though I did find the source, but no - going home without the trophy 

I bought five more "samples" from McMaster, which per the photos/descriptions all had a good chance of being narrow enough. Some of them had round shafts, some hex shafts, some supported Torx only, some supported Torx and Torx Plus, etc.:






New ones on top. Older, ground ones bottom:






Close-up. NONE of them fit


----------



## ma_sha1

wquiles said:


> Well, I though I did find the source, but no - going home without the trophy
> 
> Close-up. NONE of them fit




WTF? mag is doing a terrible thing to us. Sorry to hear you came out empty.


----------



## PJ

:fail: The Eklind set didn't work.

Sears has an Eklind set available online only. Zooming on the image it looks like it may have the straight shank bits. I have not looked at a store to see if they are available.


----------



## gswitter

Looks like an incorrect picture, unfortunately. They use the same picture for their similar hex key set.


----------



## LED_astray

wquiles said:


> ... had a good chance of being narrow enough. ... NONE of them fit



Those are very close. Is there enough material in the switch to bore out the access hole a little?

(I'm not confident I can successfully grind a driver shaft, but even I could run a drill bit in straight with a existing hole as a guide!)


----------



## wquiles

LED_astray said:


> Those are very close. Is there enough material in the switch to bore out the access hole a little?


I would not do it while the round plastic piece is inside the switch, since it would be very easy to damage the indents that make the switch go up/down as you turn it on/off. In fact, damaging those indents on purpose is how you turn the switch to momentary-only mode to use with some LED drivers, notably those from TaskLED.


----------



## copperfox

What about the Wiha precision torx T-8 (#26708)? It also comes in a 6-piece and a 7-piece set.

http://rocky.digikey.com/weblib/Wiha/Web Photos/mfg26790.jpg


I think you can get it alone (not in a set) but the picture that amazon shows is of the T15: link.


----------



## 357mag1

copperfox said:


> What about the Wiha precision torx T-8 (#26708)? It also comes in a 6-piece and a 7-piece set.



I have the Wiha and it is too fat. I thought for sure it would fit but no dice. The 2mm flat blade I mentioned a few posts above works like a champ and then you just need to replace the Torx set screw with an allen head set screw.


----------



## alpg88

has anyone tried spline ,aka bristol six flute key?? they are metric, may be that is why we have problem finding matching key?
i have few of them, but i don't have any new switches.

also once you got new screw with 2mm flat blade, where do you buy torx screw that would fit new switch?


----------



## Bimmerboy

alpg88 said:


> also once you got new screw with 2mm flat blade, where do you buy torx screw that would fit new switch?


You mean hex screw, not torx.

That should be the easy part. My question is whether or not regular plain-ended hex scews, found at many hardware stores, will bite into the tube wall with as much contact area, and/or *contact pressure* as the pointy-ended screw in a stock Mag? Which one results in less resistance (if there's any measurable difference at all)?

Related story... completely assuming my recently purchased, 3D Rebel Mag with the positive tab instead of a spring, had a torx screw, I found a local hobby shop with a decent quality, 2mm x 75mm flat screwdriver with identical specs to 357's recommendation.

Bought, and took it home only to find out my new Mag still uses the 3/32 hex.  But for anyone interested, Dynamite is not the only producer of this precision screwdriver size. Mine is labeled by R/C company Duratrax. Looks and feels like a good product for only $3.50 retail.


----------



## 357mag1

The set screw you need is an 8-32 thread 3/16 inches long with standard socket head. I ordered the stainless 316 from McMaster-Carr at $5.62 for a pack of 10. The 8-18 stainless probably would have worked just as well for this application and for less than a dollar more you can get a 50 pack. I also used the cone style which bites into the wall more aggressively than the Mag screw.


----------



## wquiles

357mag1 said:


> The set screw you need is an 8-32 thread 3/16 inches long with standard socket head. I ordered the stainless 316 from McMaster-Carr at $5.62 for a pack of 10. The 8-18 stainless probably would have worked just as well for this application and for less than a dollar more you can get a 50 pack. I also used the cone style which bites into the wall more aggressively than the Mag screw.



Interesting. Was was the exact part number from McMaster that you ordered?


----------



## alpg88

Bimmerboy said:


> You mean hex screw, not torx.
> 
> .


 lol, yes, my bad.


----------



## 357mag1

wquiles said:


> Interesting. Was was the exact part number from McMaster that you ordered?



The number for the 316 Stainless is 90778A178.


----------



## wquiles

Thanks. I will go ahead and order a few. The point is not as steep/narrow as in the original Mag screw, but the original screw is meant to pierce through the anodizing. If we are replacing those Torx screws with these, the hole through the anodizing is already there, so I would hope these will make as good an electrical connection.


----------



## 357mag1

I agree the point is sharper and steeper on the Mag Torx but it is tiny and is probably the only part that breaks through the anodizing. The longer point on the McMaster part must drive in deeper and I would think provide a better electrical connection.

Just to satisfy my curiosity I took another Mag apart with the Torx and swapped in the McMaster part. It definitely left a deeper and wider hole than the stock screw.

I have six of these in various Mags with no electrical connection problems at this time. Most are running 1185 or lesser bulbs but one has a 50w MR16 driven with 5 26500 IMR cells and reads 6 amps at the tailcap. That equates to roughly 111 watts (assuming the bulb has 18.5 volts dropped acrossed it). Other than drain batteries too quickly and get too hot it works fine.


----------



## PJ

No go on the Eklind 7 key Torx set #22572. :thumbsdow 

I picked one up Saturday and the T8 has a hexagonal shaft and doesn't fit.


----------



## wquiles

357mag1 said:


> Just to satisfy my curiosity I took another Mag apart with the Torx and swapped in the McMaster part. It definitely left a deeper and wider hole than the stock screw.
> 
> I have six of these in various Mags with no electrical connection problems at this time. Most are running 1185 or lesser bulbs but one has a 50w MR16 driven with 5 26500 IMR cells and reads 6 amps at the tailcap. That equates to roughly 111 watts (assuming the bulb has 18.5 volts dropped acrossed it). Other than drain batteries too quickly and get too hot it works fine.



Thanks so much for verifying that. I placed my order from McMaster so hopefully by end of this week I will get them. What I plan to do is to simply swap them for free on all of my future custom 1xD's - therefore my customers will never be bothered with a "weird" or hard to get tool for the Torx screws. Problem solved :devil:


----------



## 357mag1

wquiles said:


> Thanks so much for verifying that. I placed my order from McMaster so hopefully by end of this week I will get them. What I plan to do is to simply swap them for free on all of my future custom 1xD's - therefore my customers will never be bothered with a "weird" or hard to get tool for the Torx screws. Problem solved :devil:



Glad it was helpful. I'm sure your customers will appreciate that touch. Now if Mag will just let us buy the switches we can still repair our own lights.


----------



## LuxLuthor

357mag1 said:


> The number for the 316 Stainless is 90778A178.



Yeah, I have used that same setscrew design in previous mag switches. I do two other simple things which you guys might consider. 

After removal of stock switch, I look inside the switch hole where you can see the contact point previously made by the set screw. I deepen that contact point with a *gentle *tap of a pointed punch and/or touch lightly with a small drill bit...making sure I'm not going deep enough to cause a protruding dent outside.

Then I screw set screw into holding nut with switch still outside of light, until tip is protruding. I give the tip a superficial dremel sanding just to blunt the sharp setscrew point a tiny bit, and thereby get better electrical contact. If you don't have a dremel, just slide protruding setscrew tip back and forth a few times on a sheet of medium grit sandpaper.

As you insert and secure your switch, you can feel the set screw finding the slight depression in the wall you made with slight movement of switch body while "walking in" the set screw before firmly tightening. These two steps take no more than 30 seconds.


----------



## wquiles

Awesome! Thanks much for sharing that tip :thumbsup:


----------



## 357mag1

LuxLuthor said:


> After removal of stock switch, I look inside the switch hole where you can see the contact point previously made by the set screw. I deepen that contact point with a *gentle *tap of a pointed punch and/or touch lightly with a small drill bit...making sure I'm not going deep enough to cause a protruding dent outside.


Great idea Lux. The small drill bit option is like what Mag used to do to the older lights before they had a D in the serial number.


----------



## SandMan007

I recently bought a 4D from Home Depot, the switch was defective but they did not have any silver left so I called MAG and they sent me a replacment switch assembly with a standard 5/64. Maybe I got old stock?


----------



## 357mag1

All the 4Ds I've purchased at Home Depot and Lowes lately have the old 5/64 set screw. Only the 2D and 3D seem to have the new set screw. They probably don't move them as fast so the new switches aren't in circulation on the 4Ds yet. 

I just purchased Mag switches from a supplier and they all came with the 5/64 set screw and allen wrench. The switches probably don't turn over that fast and the new stock will take a while to get out there. A good sign if Mag is still willing to send replacement switches with the old style set screw.


----------



## wquiles

I got the screws from McMaster today. Instead of ordering the 8-32 3/16" long, after measuring several switches I found that I could order the 8-32 1/4" instead. Even the 1/4" still has plenty of room left inside the switch. The only reason I ordered the 1/4" instead of the 3/16", is that the 1/4" comes with a 90 deg cone, which is slightly more "pointy" than the 110 deg cone in the 3/16" screw. Not anything really earth shattering, but since both fit fine inside the switch, I went with the more pointy screw.

Here is the new screw (right) next to the original OEM part (left):







Close-up, where you can see that the new screw (even at 90 deg) is almost blunt compared to the OEM screw. Here you can see why the advice from LuxLuthor earlier in this thread makes sense :






The small bag of screws that I bought:






And since I really like the screwdriver handle that I ground for the T8 screw, I got the same basic handle for the 5/64" screws:


----------



## Billy Ram

OK friends I knew it was only going to be a matter of time before I ran into a mag with this new set screw. I want to pass along what worked for me.




I found this for $7.99 at my local Advanced Auto. The T-7 slides through the hole and easily breaks the set screw loose.
Billy


----------



## LilKevin715

I just got a 2D Rebel Mag and it has a hex screw...  Seems like they aren't being consistent with which type of screw they are using. Before knowing this I picked up a precision multi-screw set at Home Depot (search their website for item# 038728635181) that includes a Torx T8. The width of the shaft was a little bit too wide at 2.5mm, but a few minutes with a drill and a metal file solved that problem.

From top to bottom:
Torx T9, T8 (2.5mm shaft width), T8 (2mm shaft width), T7, 5/64" hex





Closer pic of T8 (2.5mm), T8 (2mm), 5/64" hex




If I do anymore mag mods in the future at least I'll be ready for the kind that includes T8 screws.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Billy Ram said:


> The T-7 slides through the hole and easily breaks the set screw loose.



I thought everyone said it was a T-8 setscrew?


----------



## Billy Ram

LuxLuthor said:


> I thought everyone said it was a T-8 setscrew?


 The set screw is a T-8 but the T-8 driver needs to be ground down to slip through the switch. The T-7 driver will slip through the switch hole and break the set screw loose. 
Billy


----------



## ljw2k

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wera-Torx-Tip...t=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item5ace469766 looks like it should do the job ?


----------



## ljw2k

Good news just been onto Maglite Uk and they are sending me a T8 torx kit out for free


----------



## Firecop

I love you guys! I just ran into this problem, and who had the answer? CPF for the win! Thanks, fellas...


----------



## Imapilot

I just finished turning down my t8 wrench. TO all the smart people at maglite. It took me 10 mins to defeat your new "security" that being said. I hope Maglite goes out of buisness if they did this just to thwart people.


----------



## nitesky

Thanks for the heads up on this. I have only worked with older switches. I think that my spare parts base might be limited to garage sales. Or old lights owned by friends or family that have a lot of dust on them and might just be given away...


----------



## Justin Case

Billy Ram said:


> The set screw is a T-8 but the T-8 driver needs to be ground down to slip through the switch. The T-7 driver will slip through the switch hole and break the set screw loose.
> Billy



The T7 certainly fits through the switch opening. But whether it can break the set screw loose depends on how tightly the set screw is cranked down. I tried your suggestion of using a T7 from Advanced Auto. Didn't work. The set screw was cranked too tight and the T7 eventually slipped when it couldn't hold the torque.

My Wiha T8 wrench has the slightest of flaring to the shaft that makes it too big to fit down the switch opening. So what I did was take a drill bit and bore out the opening just the tiniest amount and my Wiha wrench then fit without a problem.


----------



## Murray B

This sort of thing makes me so mad that I will not purchase any Mag products in the future. It is bad enough that they held the assembly with a set screw and then do not tell anybody about it but to make everyone buy a new wrench is ridiculous. 

Several years ago I had the cells swell in a 2 D model. No amount of searching of the product documentation or the company site revealed how to take the thing apart. The only reason I ever fixed the thing is because someone on a forum like this was kind enough to post the location of the secret set screw that held the switch assembly. 

By changing the screw and not revealing the type Mag has shown complete disregard for the rights of the owner. Without this knowledge even removing a stuck cell requires a trip to the dealer and that will probably cost money. Mag really need to rethink their customer service policy.


----------



## PCC

I understand your frustration, but, you need to keep in mind that Mag has done this expressly to try to discourage people like me who would buy a MagLite to use as a host for even brighter lights. They're trying to make it difficult to dismantle so that people would be less inclined to take them apart and modify them or possibly create warranty claims because they didn't know what they were doing and took apart a perfectly good light and turned it into a paperweight. Your example of having batteries swell inside of a light should have been addressed, as far as the manufacturer is concerned, by the battery manufacturer - not you, not Mag Industries.

Keep in mind that replacement incandescent switch assemblies from Mag now come with both the 5/64" and T8 Torx wrenches. With the MagLED models they want you to return the light to them for warranty repairs, as far as I can tell.


----------



## monkeyboy

ljw2k said:


> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wera-Torx-Tip...t=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item5ace469766 looks like it should do the job ?


 
I just got one of those. It's not straight like it shows in the picture but tapered. I filed it down with an orbital disc sander and dremmel near the tip and it works well now. Just like post #123


----------



## cdrake261

I take it that you cannot use an old switch from an older maglite and use it in a newer maglite that came with the new bolt/switch set...right?


----------



## wquiles

Yes, you can use an old switch in the new bodies. But you still need the new screw tool to remove the new switch from the new body, so what would be the point of using an old switch if you have the new screw tool? Kind-off a catch-22 

That being said, I still like/use the old switch in my Mag conversions since it is much easier to do the modification for flat cells 

Will


----------



## cdrake261

wquiles said:


> Yes, you can use an old switch in the new bodies. But you still need the new screw tool to remove the new switch from the new body, so what would be the point of using an old switch if you have the new screw tool? Kind-off a catch-22
> 
> That being said, I still like/use the old switch in my Mag conversions since it is much easier to do the modification for flat cells
> 
> Will


 
I already modded my old switch to momentary and need a toggle mag switch for my bike lite


----------



## cdrake261

wquiles said:


> Yes, you can use an old switch in the new bodies. But you still need the new screw tool to remove the new switch from the new body, so what would be the point of using an old switch if you have the new screw tool? Kind-off a catch-22
> 
> That being said, I still like/use the old switch in my Mag conversions since it is much easier to do the modification for flat cells
> 
> Will


 
I already modded my old switch to momentary and need a toggle mag switch for my bike lite


----------



## LightJunk

Just want to add some info here. I bought a Maglite D Switch Assembly Acc/Kit Repair from here and it came with both 5/64 allen and T8 torx wrench. The T8 torx wrench fits in nicely into the top hole of the switch.

For $7.89, I think it's a good deal. 

The switch that came with it doesn't have a positive spring contact though. I guess it's the new switch.


----------



## cdrake261

LightJunk said:


> Just want to add some info here. I bought a Maglite D Switch Assembly Acc/Kit Repair from here and it came with both 5/64 allen and T8 torx wrench. The T8 torx wrench fits in nicely into the top hole of the switch.
> 
> For $7.89, I think it's a good deal.
> 
> The switch that came with it doesn't have a positive spring contact though. I guess it's the new switch.


 
That for the entire switch? Are they trustworthy?


----------



## Colonel Sanders

Yeah, I bought a few D switches from there. No problems and quick delivery. The wrenches were a nice bonus.


----------



## PJ

Detroit, Michigan area update.

The store I found the 'good' Chesco Torx sets had them back in stock. 
I stopped in on Saturday, Oct. 29 and they had about a dozen. 

From my previous post:


> I found a 7 pc. folding Torx driver set that works. It is a Chesco model 88056 with sizes from T-6 to T-10,T15 and T-20. The UPC number is 038548880563.
> 
> Updated on 3-10-2011: There are 2 different Chesco 88056 tools
> 
> The 'good' Chesco set is 3" long closed, has slotted screws holding it together and has the Chesco name stamped on the right side. The T8 works on a 3D Mag LED.



For anyone in the Detroit area they are at Kitts Industrial Tools on 8 Mile road just east of Grand River. They are in aisle 5 on the left hand side near some electrical stuff and are about $7.50 with tax.


----------



## kmnremtp

PJ said:


> Detroit, Michigan area update.
> 
> The store I found the 'good' Chesco Torx sets has them back in stock.
> I stopped in on Saturday, Oct. 29 and they had about a dozen.
> 
> From my previous post:
> 
> 
> For anyone in the Detroit area they are at Kitts Industrial Tools on 8 Mile road just east of Grand River. They are in aisle 5 on the left hand side near some electrical stuff and are about $7.50 with tax.
> 
> If anyone wants one let me know and I can mail it out in a padded envelope. I'll check the weight and post the total cost when I get a chance.




PJ, I'd definatly be interested in buying one of these tools, if possible. The T8 on this particular tool DOES fit, without modification right? I do not have capability of pm, but if you could shoot me an email kmnremtp at yahoo, I'd appreciate it very much.


----------



## neal71

If anyone would be willing to grind down a torx key for me I would be willing to cover all costs. I just don't have a grinder or anywhere to use one.


----------



## Mr Happy

neal71 said:


> If anyone would be willing to grind down a torx key for me I would be willing to cover all costs. I just don't have a grinder or anywhere to use one.


There's really no need. I just faced this same problem a few days ago, where no torx driver would fit through the hole in the switch. Simple solution, I just got a drill of the same diameter as the shaft of my no. 8 torx driver and enlarged the hole in the plastic switch until it was big enough for the driver to fit through. As long as you don't go mad and try to make the hole too big, it works fine. Much easier than messing about with a grinder.


----------



## neal71

I tried to drill it out, how do you get past the spring? I am trying use the whole assembly in another body. 

Neal


----------



## Mr Happy

I didn't need to get past the spring. My torx driver is only slightly thicker than the hole. After I had drilled as far as the spring I inserted the driver and pushed a bit and it went all way down to the set screw.


----------



## neal71

Guess my t8 is just way too big, drilled out quite a bit and still nothing. If I go any bigger there will be no on off switch left. 

Neal


----------



## Mr Happy

Yeah, I think you at least need a torx with a long, thin stem. I used the one from this set, found in Home Depot: 

http://www.generaltools.com/63518--18-PIECE-PRECISION-ULTRATECH-SCREWDRIVER-SET_p_323.html
 
The 1/16 hex bit is good for the bulb pillar too.


----------



## HotWire

I bought a new switch from Maglight.com and it came with both a hex wrench and a T8 wrench that fits the new screw. I didn't need the wrenches as I had previously ground down a T8 screwdriver to fit, but it's a nice bonus!


----------



## neal71

HotWire said:


> I bought a new switch from Maglight.com and it came with both a hex wrench and a T8 wrench that fits the new screw. I didn't need the wrenches as I had previously ground down a T8 screwdriver to fit, but it's a nice bonus!



Want to sell the t8 that came with your switch? 

Neal


----------



## HotWire

I'll keep the wrench as a spare. The total cost for the new switch and wrenches was only about $10.00 if I recall. My first driver was a TX8 sourced from ebay and ground down on my bench grinder. Either way, quick, cheap, easy.


----------



## neal71

Did you order the new switch assembly, or the old one. They seem like they are not willing to send out anything with the new wrench.


----------



## HotWire

I ordered the new switch assembly. The wrenches were included in the package. Don't know if they mentioned them on the website. I ordered it here:
http://maglitesales.com/maglitestor...-D-Cell-Switch-Assembly-KIT-NEW-Style-108-208


----------



## bhwollen

Does anyone have a modified T8 tool they would be willing to sell me?


----------



## lolzertank

It's really not that hard to do, I ground down a $2.50 Torx T8 from eBay with nothing but a small metal file. Took about 20 minutes (keeping the tip intact while getting rid of the taper was infuriating), and my hands are a bit sore, but all in all pretty easy.


----------



## PJ

May 8, 2012 

The store I found the 'good' Chesco Torx sets had them back in stock.
I stopped in on Saturday, May 5, 2012 and they had about 20 in stock.

From my previous post:


> I found a 7 pc. folding Torx driver set that works. It is a Chesco model 88056 with sizes from T-6 to T-10,T15 and T-20. The UPC number is 038548880563.
> 
> Updated on 3-10-2011: There are 2 different Chesco 88056 tools
> 
> The 'good' Chesco set is 3" long closed, has slotted screws holding it together and has the Chesco name stamped on the right side. The T8 works on a 3D Mag LED.



For anyone in the Detroit area they are at Kitts Industrial Tools, Farmington Hills, MI on 8 Mile road just east of Grand River.


----------



## EMC2

Call the warranty department, tell them you have a problem with your switch, give them your serial number and you will get a new switch and both tools. 

Be prepared to wait.


----------



## The_Police

I have also ran into this same problem. It was very irritating to find out I can't disassemble my lights when my mod parts all showed up.

Now I can't follow through with my Mag projects until I get inside them, so this thread has gotten me tempted to buy a batch of T8 torx "L" wrenches and stick them in the lathe and turn them down to size to fit in the Mag's switch. If there was enough interest in this I would be willing to do that and sell them at a reasonable price.


----------



## jmpaul320

Just buy a new switch assembly. They come with both wrentches and a switch. I paid $10 for mine


----------



## PJ

I stopped at Casler Hardware in Jackson, MI., a Maglite repair center, and talked to the guy that repairs the lights. He told me that Mag sent him a tool for the new switches which is a T8 wrench with a screwdriver handle. He said as far as he knows if a customer buys the switch assembly it has both wrenches but if he orders them as a repair facility they don't have the wrenches.

www.caslerhardware.com is their website. They sell parts and have reasonable shipping rates. ( I ordered some switch covers a few months back.) 

Some warranty centers are now authorized to repair the LED lights so you may not have to ship them to California for repair.


----------



## novice

*Re: new set screw tool for Mag D switch - disassembled Maglite switch*



jmpaul320 said:


> Just buy a new switch assembly. They come with both wrentches and a switch.



I hope you will all excuse this necro-bump. I ended up with a Maglite (D+serial number) that I needed a switch for. I ordered one online, and it arrived without the needed wrench. Aargh. I did not want to send the flashlight to those M-folks just to have them install it, so after looking for, and failing to find, a T8 Torx driver with a thin enough shaft, I ended up at a great local hardware store, where the head tinkerer and I ended up sort of unintentionally popping the whole thing apart in an attempt to get at that infernal set screw. Now it is completely disassembled. It was worth it just to be able to replace the new set screw with the older allen wrench type set screw. I have a mixed history of putting (even simple) things back together, but I think that I will probably eventually manage. Getting the long thin metal strip back in will probably prove the most challenging part. Anyway, as long as the switch is completely in pieces, I thought that some of you might find the following photos useful, since I have never found an exploded diagram of a switch online. FYI, I had an older D-cell switch that would not fit in my D-serial number body, because the older switch was too big in diameter. The body tube has a slightly narrower outer diameter, as well.















[EDIT]

Oops. Didn't realize that there were more parts than I was aware of. As I was manhandling the assembly, getting ready to reassemble it, another sub-assembly fell out.






Here is what the main assembly looks like now. I am not taking anything else out, as it is not necessary for replacing the set screw.


----------



## xxo

Other than the ones that come with the Mag replacement switches, anyone find a source for these torx keys?


----------



## bykfixer

Good bump


----------



## Bimmerboy

Back when news of the changed set-screw came out, I found a suitable torx in the form of a long, skinny screwdriver at a local hobby shop. Possibly Wiha. I'll find it and verify.


----------

