# Fenix TK20



## GregU2 (Aug 12, 2008)

Where did the thread go on the TK20? By the way, the only place I can find this flashlight is on a Canadian web site, fenixtactical.com. Looks interesting.


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## Closet_Flashaholic (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

yes,......:twothumbs

This is what I have been waiting for. A tactical "AA" light. I don't know if I care for the yellow... and I would have liked to have seen > 200 lumens, but whatever.

Ok 4sevens, when is it going to show up?


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## Closet_Flashaholic (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

After further looking, there's a discrepency:

On the left, it's listed as 180 lum, but under the pics it says 150 lum in turbo mode. Hopefully it's 180... 150 will not be enough for a tactical, IMO:sigh:


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## ernsanada (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

4sevens.com is also going to be carrying the TK20's.


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## alibaba (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Closet_Flashaholic said:


> After further looking, there's a discrepency:
> 
> On the left, it's listed as 180 lum, but under the pics it says 150 lum in turbo mode. Hopefully it's 180... *150 will not be enough for a tactical, IMO*:sigh:


 



LOL, that's a good one. I got a good laugh out of that, thanks!


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## harddrive (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

A think the Neutral white of the TK20 will be a success. I recently got one of the Q2 5A drop ins from Dereelight and really like it. I think as more people get to try the neutral white the demand will increase. For me it neutral white for outdoor lights, cool white for indoors.


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## MattK (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

_Post edited per Dealer posting policy_


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## CM (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Closet_Flashaholic said:


> ...150 will not be enough for a tactical, IMO:sigh:


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## Woods Walker (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

If it is for outdoor aka hunters, hikers etc we would really like a low mode too. Mostly for camp duty etc. Darn every time I see a light that looks prefect for my outdoor stuff it seems to lack one or more import aspects. I wish someone could tell Fenix a low mode is important for this type of light. Well at least to me anyways.

edit.

I like the yellow.


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## WadeF (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Looks neat. Will it take 2x14500's?


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## jchoo (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Does anyone know how the mode switching will work?


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## climberkid (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Thanks for the slideshow Matt. very informative and clear on the point. Gonna go for it!


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## Marduke (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



jchoo said:


> Does anyone know how the mode switching will work?



Probably exactly like the T1, TK10, TK11, L1T, L2T, L2P


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## baterija (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Closet_Flashaholic said:


> Hopefully it's 180... 150 will not be enough for a tactical, IMO:sigh:



Based on the lights chosen for the Family of Flashlights by PEO Soldier, the US Army seems to disagree.

SureFire guidance on choosing a weapon light also disagrees to some extent:



> SureFire recommends 60 lumens (depending on reflector size and beam characteristics) as the minimum output level to cause momentary blindness in a subject whose eyes are dark-adapted and who is no more than ten yards distant.
> 
> You might be tempted to choose a very high output WeaponLight for all purposes, but this could be the wrong decision. Higher light output WeaponLights use more batteries and are therefore larger and heavier. This can be significant when the firearm is used in tight quarters, or carried over long distances, or held in a firing position for extended periods of time, or must be manipulated with maximum rapidity.
> 
> Furthermore, in close range engagements, such as inside buildings or caves, too much light output can result in excessive bounce-back light that could degrade your own night vision. For close to medium-range operations, such as structure clearing, or where targets may be one or more blocks away or in upper-floor windows, a two- to three-battery (6V-9V) light is probably best.


YMMV if you are looking at a light primarily for longer engagement ranges, and are willing to accept the trade offs. 2.3 times the output of a P60 module isn't exactly shabby.


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## Woods Walker (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

It may surprise some people but lots of hunters/fishermen and other outdoors types are big flashlight and headlight fans. Often during gatherings of hunters it is not long before people start pulling out flashlights from daypacks etc. Higher end stuff like Surefires can be found. But Fenix and like lights are rare. I have sent some hunting buddies 4sevens way after they seen my Fenix lights. Unlike Joe 6 pack they are willing to spend 100 bucks on a light (but not too much more). This is a far bigger market than flashlight collectors I often see here on CPF. I think some on CPF like flashlights for the sake of the flashlight. Nothing wrong with that. I have guns and knives for the same reasons. Outdoors types are looking for the best tools and willing to drop the coin. It is a far bigger market. I think if this light had a low setting it would sell better to deer shooting, bass catching and hiking types like me.



1. Yellow grip is darn nice if the light is dropped. The wood has a way to eat gear

2. AA batteries are a big plus.

3. Momentary on. Oh man this is nice.

4. Nice tint for the woods. This is far better.

5. Good grip. One of the downsides to my L2D Q5

6. 150 lumens on Turbo Mode. This is just beyond what most have seen. Sure the CPF crowd may not be amazed but most outdoors types I know would say wow. A good selling point.

7. 45 lumen general mode is about right for night walks, pre dawn tree stand hikes and return hikes from afternoon fishing that cross over past dusk. 

8. UL for the daypack.

If they had a 10-14 lumen low mode this would be the perfect light. 45 lumens are too much to fiddle around the pack etc in low light. Also somehow having a low level that can run for 20 or more hours adds a sense of security when outdoors. The 50ish hour on low was a big factor in getting my first Fenix. True the 28 days of survival listed is kind of crazy in that I don’t expect to be lost for a month in the woods but there is just something about a good low level. Not the very low levels 5 lumens or less that some on CPF crave rather a useful 10-14 lumen light. I am fairly typical outdoorsman with maybe a stronger leaning to the flashlights. But still the general/turbo mode could work for many. I guess time will tell.


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## Nake (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Does this come with both grips, or does one choose at purchase?


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## 1 what (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

I can see an interesting dedate re color temp on the way.
If someone can show me that neutral white is more usefull than cool white for telling how "well done" meat is then I'm sold. Cool white is useless for outdoor cooking. I'll happily test this for Matt or David if they wish. If they don't believe me I'll happily send them overcooked "game"..


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## MattK (Aug 12, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Nake said:


> Does this come with both grips, or does one choose at purchase?



One chooses at the time of purchase - that's what we had been waiting to find out.


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## Woods Walker (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

I have used blueish LED for years in the woods and so far I can see in the dark. But every so often conditions are just right and most of the LED I have used (blueish/cool white/whatever they are called) are not the same. The *warmer* tints of light if that is the word I am looking for does cut though the fog/rain/snow better for me. Also things don't look natural with the more blue LEDs.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



GregU2 said:


> Where did the thread go on the TK20?



I'm also wondering why it was deleted ???

Anyway this looks like very nice light. Warmer tint is very good news especially for incad guys. It also looks like it has bigger smooth reflector so the throw will be probably better than with L2D or L2T.


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## Sharpy_swe (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

It looks like a very interesting light, especially the yellow one 

But the runtime om turbo seems to be a little disappointing compared to the L2D Q5. 

180 [email protected] hrs vs 150 [email protected],5 hrs


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## ambientmind (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

This is just the kind of light I was looking for, I cant wait!


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## cybersoga (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

http://www.thephotonshop.co.uk/page24.htm

It says "the Fenix TK20 uses a Cree Neutral White LED" but then goes onto say the LED is 4000k which is much warmer than the 6500k standard for daylight.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



cybersoga said:


> http://www.thephotonshop.co.uk/page24.htm
> 
> It says "the Fenix TK20 uses a Cree Neutral White LED" but then goes onto say the LED is 4000k which is much warmer than the 6500k standard for daylight.



Yes it is much warmer than daylight but "neutral white" is standart cree marking for 4000K color temperature.

cool white 10000K-5000K
neutral white 5000K-3700K
warm white 3700K-2600K


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## TONY M (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

At a glance it seems a bit like a beefed up L2T.


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## bgiddins (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



TONY M said:


> At a glance it seems a bit like a beefed up L2T.


Yeah, but both runtimes are shorter:

T20 vs L2T
150 lumens for 1.25 hours vs 152 lumens for 2.4 hours
45 lumens for 8.5 hours vs 16 lumens for 32 hours

So same output & shorter runtimes on high, but a brighter low for only a quarter of the runtime.

Guess the main selling factor is the beefed up construction & the warmer tint?

I reckon the ideal 2 x AA light Fenix could produce would be a fixed three level light - say 16, 45 and 100+ lumens, with optimised performance for NiMH, but better runtimes on Lithium.


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## TONY M (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

I guess its OTF lumens for the TK20 then?
Lets hope the regulation is good. I'll probably give this one a miss as I have enough for now.


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## spgrk (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Does anyone know what the colour temperature of Fenix L1T/L2T v.2 Rebel lights is? By eye, the Rebel tint seems warmer than of any Cree or SSC lights I've owned, although I haven't seen the warmer Crees that the TK20 is supposed to have. Also, the Rebel has a much nicer beam pattern than Crees - no rings, smoother transition from spot to spill. It's a pity most of the Rebel lights are now off the market.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



bgiddins said:


> T20 vs L2T
> 150 lumens for 1.25 hours vs 152 lumens for 2.4 hours
> 45 lumens for 8.5 hours vs 16 lumens for 32 hours
> 
> So same output & shorter runtimes on high, but a brighter low for only a quarter of the runtime.



If the 1.25h runtime is meant with eneloop batteries then it is exactly the same as L2T runtime.

This is how my L2T performs:


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## phantom23 (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

4000K and less is called "xxx white" but light is yellow. Color rendition is also far away from true daylight - you can see Fenix pictures -everything is yellow. It's not natural and very annoying.
Rebel is better because it's real warm white, doesn't make objects yellow.And no Cree rings!


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## LukeA (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



phantom23 said:


> 4000K and less is called "xxx white" but light is yellow. Color rendition is also far away from true daylight - you can see Fenix pictures -everything is yellow. It's not natural and very annoying.
> Rebel is better because it's real warm white, doesn't make objects yellow.And no Cree rings!



That's odd because all the Rebels I have have tremendous amounts of yellow in the beam and very little red. The warm white Crees have much more red.


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## bgiddins (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



jirik_cz said:


> If the 1.25h runtime is meant with eneloop batteries then it is exactly the same as L2T runtime.


I was just going off the Fenix-quoted figures - they specify "NiMH" with no reference to capacity.


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## phantom23 (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

LukeA, Rebel has better balance between yellow/orange/red that's why it looks more natural than Cree WH. Or maybe you have bad Rebel?


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## jirik_cz (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



phantom23 said:


> LukeA, Rebel has better balance between yellow/orange/red that's why it looks more natural than Cree WH. Or maybe you have bad Rebel?



I've seen many rebel lights and most of them had similar tint to a Cree WD, one of them was very purple and one of them was very green/yellow (much more than Cree WH). I have also Streamlight Scorpion with "C4 LED" = Luxeon K2 TFFC and it is pretty warm. I would guess 4000-5000K. I will compare it with TK20 after it arrives.


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## MonkRX (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Ooo! The powerpoint presentation that was posted was really helpful. There are tons of beamshots comparing the Neutral White Cree and the Cool White Cree at various distances and targets.

And one thing I'm excited about:
IT LOOKS LIKE IT _MIGHT_ BE ABLE TO TAILSTAND! 
Yay.


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## LEDninja (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

phantom23
How much time have you spent in the woods away from other ambient lighting? Take up hiking as a hobby and your views will change.

In the cities with mostly white or light gray walls the pure white works well. In the country there are no white or blue colours - just the brown of tree trunks and green of leaves and grass. The blue from todays LEDs are powerful enough to be reflected as a blue white overlay on top of the existing natural colours resulting in a b&w TV look. A warm white LED with little blue looks yellow indoors but shows the colours of the outdoors more vividly.
I live in downtown Hamilton and do not see what the fuss was about the Dereelight 5A pill. Then I went to the Toronto GTA get together. Among the grass, leaves and trees for seeing clearly Tebore's HID was best followed by the Mag85. Then the Dereelight 5A and worst of all was the big crop of regular LED torches everybody was carrying.
The 5A tint of my Dereelight was better than the normal LEDs but not that much better. I now see why the incan crowd refuse to give up their hotwires.

BTW the rebel has a warm tint among the pure white LEDs. It is not a warm white.
Dereelight Q2 5A left, L1T v2.0 RB80 right.




Wait till you see the 7A, 7B, 8A really warm white tints.

Cree rings are annoying indoors on white walls.
Outdoors the hotspot lights up things at a distance, the spill light lights up my immediate surroundings, everything else is dark. Does not matter if the light is a Cree or not.



phantom23 said:


> 4000K and less is called "xxx white" but light is yellow. Color rendition is also far away from true daylight - you can see Fenix pictures -everything is yellow. It's not natural and very annoying.
> Rebel is better because it's real warm white, doesn't make objects yellow.And no Cree rings!



Some beamshot comparisons of the Dereelight Q2 5A:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2530570&postcount=43
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2531107&postcount=1
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2538831&postcount=48


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## Marduke (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



bgiddins said:


> I was just going off the Fenix-quoted figures - they specify "NiMH" with no reference to capacity.



They specify "Eneloops"


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## Closet_Flashaholic (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



alibaba said:


> LOL, that's a good one. I got a good laugh out of that, thanks!



I am glad you found a little humor there, but I was at least half-serious. You see I have a Surefire M3 with the MN11 bulb (225 lumens) and I would love to replace that light with something that uses AA batteries. Now I am fairly certain that Surefire will never release a tactical light that uses AA batteries (for whatever reason) and I have to look elsewhere. This was one of the lights that I hope would allow me to replace the last surefire that I will own and in order to do that I want a LED light with ~200 lumens or more that runs on AA batteries. When I find one, good bye M3.


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## Closet_Flashaholic (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



baterija said:


> Based on the lights chosen for the Family of Flashlights by PEO Soldier, the US Army seems to disagree.
> 
> SureFire guidance on choosing a weapon light also disagrees to some extent:
> 
> YMMV if you are looking at a light primarily for longer engagement ranges, and are willing to accept the trade offs. 2.3 times the output of a P60 module isn't exactly shabby.



FYI: "IMO" = "In My Opinion". Just mine. The Army can certainly have theirs, but my needs and their needs are different. I am not looking for a debate, it just may not be enough for me.

And frankly quoting something from a vendor that can't (or is unwilling) to supply what I am looking doesn't really do much for me. That's like General Motors telling everyone that their cars get 30 mpg and that 30 mpg is fantastic, but compared to what? Other GM cars that get 20mpg? What about Toyota's 40 mpg cars?

I am not going to turn this into anything more. A vendor doesn't have what I want. It's that simple. Maybe someone else eventually will make what I am looking for.


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## phantom23 (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



LEDninja said:


> phantom23
> How much time have you spent in the woods away from other ambient lighting? Take up hiking as a hobby and your views will change.
> 
> In the cities with mostly white or light gray walls the pure white works well. In the country there are no white or blue colours - just the brown of tree trunks and green of leaves and grass. The blue from todays LEDs are powerful enough to be reflected as a blue white overlay on top of the existing natural colours resulting in a b&w TV look. A warm white LED with little blue looks yellow indoors but shows the colours of the outdoors more vividly.
> ...


Cree 5A is not warm white, it's actually yellow. And it makes everything around yellow. Trees, leaves, grass, rocks...

Cree WH, SSC SVO (and last U2SWO) and some Rebels are neutral/warm white - much warmer than e.g. WC, absolutely no blue/purple hint! And great natural color rendition - yellow is yellow, green is green, white is white. Waaay better than cool white, but also more natural than incandescent.


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## LukeA (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



phantom23 said:


> LukeA, Rebel has better balance between yellow/orange/red that's why it looks more natural than Cree WH. Or maybe you have bad Rebel?



When I say warm white Cree, I mean 7A, not WH, which is a cool white bin.


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## Nake (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



phantom23 said:


> Cree 5A is not warm white, it's actually yellow. And it makes everything around yellow. Trees, leaves, grass, rocks...
> 
> Cree WH, SSC SVO (and last U2SWO) and some Rebels are neutral/warm white - much warmer than e.g. WC, absolutely no blue/purple hint! And great natural color rendition - yellow is yellow, green is green, white is white. Waaay better than cool white, but also more natural than incandescent.


 
It is binned warm white. Forget what your eyes see. 

http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=creexlampnwwfullix9.jpg


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## phantom23 (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

WC, WF - cool white, WH is neutral white, 7A - I think as well. But 5A and below is just yellowbecause 4000K and below it's yellow color. Ther's no white in it. Cree "xxx white" is just a name but it has nothing to do with real (physical) cool/neutral/warm white.


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## HKJ (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Here is a picture comparing a Cree cool white with a warm white and a incan:


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## LukeA (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



phantom23 said:


> WC, WF - cool white, WH is neutral white, 7A - I think as well. But 5A and below is just yellowbecause 4000K and below it's yellow color. Ther's no white in it. Cree "xxx white" is just a name but it has nothing to do with real (physical) cool/neutral/warm white.



Read the binning charts. Then you won't have to speak out your ***.


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## phantom23 (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

So the most natural color rendition - in daylight - we have with cool white light at 5500K.


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## LEDninja (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



phantom23 said:


> Cree 5A is not warm white, it's actually yellow. And it makes everything around yellow. Trees, leaves, grass, rocks...
> 
> Cree WH, SSC SVO (and last U2SWO) and some Rebels are neutral/warm white - much warmer than e.g. WC, absolutely no blue/purple hint! And great natural color rendition - yellow is yellow, green is green, white is white. Waaay better than cool white, but also more natural than incandescent.


My 5A is actually BROWN, not yellow like my warm white LED & CFL household bulbs. Weird.

I think I like most people are used to the warmer light of candles, fireplaces, incandescent bulbs at night and do not need daylight spectrum for nighttime. That is why warm/soft white CFLs outsell cool white CFLs by a wide margin. (most stores don't even carry the cool white)

phantom23, what household bulbs are you using at home?


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## adrianmariano (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

I wonder if some people are mixing up the concepts of color (and color temperature) with color rendering (i.e. color rendering index). 

The human eye is very adaptable. If you change the color of illumination from one shade of white to another, generally people won't notice the difference. One way in which the color of lights is reported is with the color temperature, which is supposed to be the temperature of a blackbody that would look that color. But a blackbody has the property that it emits light at every frequency. Incandescent lights are of course blackbodies. But fluorescent and LED lights are not. Your basic red LED produces light at only on frequency. Objects that don't reflect at that particular frequency will look black under red LED light. Flourescent lights and white LEDs use a phosphor to convert the single wavelength light into more wavelengths to give something that looks white. But how well is this job done? Do you have light at every frequency in the spectrum? That's what the question of color rendering is about. 

"Cool White" fluorescent, if they haven't recycled the term, refers to a type of fluorescent that has abysmal color rendering. They are terrible, not because of what color the light looks, but because the spectrum is so poorly filled out. Colors look funny because there is no light at the right wavelengths to bounce off of stuff you are looking at. I personally choose yellower fluorescent lights (3000K) in most places to avoid clashes with incandescent lights that might be nearby. But I have 5000K in my basement workshop, which is bluer, and closer to daylight. All of them have a color rendering index of 86 (out of 100) and everybody thinks they look fine. I believe cool white is 50. 

It might be nice if manufacturers of LED flashlights (or the LEDS) would start telling us the color rendering index (CRI) of the LEDs. Maybe they are already doing this but nobody talks about it? The color rendering index is a way of reporting how well covered the spectrum is, and knowing that might give us more insight into why one light looks better or worse than another. You can't easily tell this by looking at beam shots. I think that color rendering is probably more important than beam color (color temperature) in determining how good the light seems from a light source.


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## HKJ (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



adrianmariano said:


> It might be nice if manufacturers of LED flashlights (or the LEDS) would start telling us the color rendering index (CRI) of the LEDs. Maybe they are already doing this but nobody talks about it?




They already do, for Cree XR-E (Typical values):
Cool White & Neutral White: 75
Warm White: 80

Not a very good color rendering and the warm white does not improve it, just changes what colors your can see.


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## phantom23 (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



HKJ said:


> They already do, for Cree XR-E (Typical values):
> Cool White & Neutral White: 75
> Warm White: 80
> 
> Not a very good color rendering and the warm white does not improve it, just changes what colors your can see.


 
That's what I'm talking about! 

Yellow/orange/red/brown are too bright, the other color became yellowish. Neutral is much better balanced.


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## kaichu dento (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



adrianmariano said:


> I wonder if some people are mixing up the concepts of color (and color temperature) with color rendering (i.e. color rendering index).
> 
> The human eye is very adaptable. If you change the color of illumination from one shade of white to another, generally people won't notice the difference. One way in which the color of lights is reported is with the color temperature, which is supposed to be the temperature of a blackbody that would look that color. But a blackbody has the property that it emits light at every frequency. Incandescent lights are of course blackbodies. But fluorescent and LED lights are not. Your basic red LED produces light at only on frequency. Objects that don't reflect at that particular frequency will look black under red LED light. Flourescent lights and white LEDs use a phosphor to convert the single wavelength light into more wavelengths to give something that looks white. But how well is this job done? Do you have light at every frequency in the spectrum? That's what the question of color rendering is about.
> 
> ...


Very nice seminar and I actually feel I learned something today!

I like it when people can talk on technical subjects and make their terminology accessible to the layman without dumbing things down. :thumbsup:


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## qip (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

a 2AA thrower finally ,but

wonder which throws best Fenix TK20- O-light T25- Lumapower Dmini w/2aa body

Dmini optimized for throw but has big head so it may be a bit to uncomfy in pocket & from my understanding its only pushing around 700ma

T25 pushed hard and has deep reflector with pretty tight hotspot but its textured

TK20 im assuming its pushed pretty hard and its reflector seems like the smo version of t25 so its designed for throw but it is using a q2 rather than q5 

hmmmmm interesting


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## SilentK (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Yay! finally a light that is designed for outdoors without costing you so much for the wife to put you outdoors! looks like a great light. cant wait to see how she performs.


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

I wonder why Fenix didn`t use a warm white Q4 or Q5...or the rebel. Seems like sort of a step back...in a way. Why use a led that drops the batt life so much...and on top of that is less bright...doesn`t make sense to me. Unless the price was lower...$40 buck or so.:thinking: Maybe they got a great deal on the Q2`s from Cree? And they ended up with ones that have a yellow tint...so to try to move them thier marketing them as a hiking light?


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## Marduke (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Badbeams3 said:


> I wonder why Fenix didn`t use a warm white Q4 or Q5...or the rebel. Seems like sort of a step back...in a way. Why use a led that drops the batt life so much...and on top of that is less bright...doesn`t




Easy, they are not made. Warm LED's mean more phosphor, which mean less efficiency. Q2's are about the top level you can get a warm tint. 

Also, it doesn't really drop the battery life, the difference between a Q2 and a Q4/5 bin if VERY small. So small that side by side you would not see a noticeable difference in brightness. It's not like it's a different generation of LED like Lux III vs. Cree XR-E is.


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## phantom23 (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Diffeence between Q5/R2 and Q2 is quite noticeable. TK20 with Q5/R2 WG/WH would be much better option IMO. Brighter+very natural color rendering.




qip said:


> a 2AA thrower finally ,but wonder which throws best Fenix TK20- O-light T25- Lumapower Dmini w/2aa body
> 
> Dmini optimized for throw but has big head so it may be a bit to uncomfy in pocket & from my understanding its only pushing around 700ma
> T25 pushed hard and has deep reflector with pretty tight hotspot but its textured
> ...


 
1. D-Mini
2. T25
.
3. TK20


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## ninjaboigt (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

wow, this is an intresting light, now i have to choose between the cheap E20 or the new TK20.....


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## cbubu (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



ninjaboigt said:


> wow, this is an intresting light, now i have to choose between the cheap E20 or the new TK20.....


I already choose : I have a E20 (great light) but I need (flashalcoholism) the TK20 
I am more and more interested by long runtime with decent brightness than pure output. 45 lm is already great ! I have an experience with the E2L Cree 2007 (also 45 lm) in a 2 weeks trip in Madagascar where public lightening is inexistent (in winter, sunset at 5PM) and I found that it is enough for most parts of the situations. The 9 hours of runtime where very useful. The fact that you can have 150 lm with the TK20 is a great improvement for throw when you need it and the color temperature will be less disturbing for other people. The AA batteries are available all around the world and this is a great pro for this light.
Regards,


----------



## MattK (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



phantom23 said:


> Diffeence between Q5/R2 and Q2 is quite noticeable. TK20 with Q5/R2 WG/WH would be much better option IMO. Brighter+very natural color rendering.
> 1. D-Mini
> 2. T25
> .
> 3. TK20



I agree on the throw rankings - the D-Mini reflector should allow it to significantly outthrow these other 2. 

That said, The Q2 is the highest available bin for a neutral white LED and 150L is pretty bright - bright enough for almost any task, particularly in the woods, at night. If you want a 2 x AA Fenix with a Q5 there is always the L2D - the TK20 has a more defined purpose/market niche to which the neutral white Q2 is ideally suited.


----------



## LED-holic (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Very interesting. 

So how does this stack up against the might Fenix L2D? 

Aside from the UI (fwd vs reverse on the L2D), would be interested in other aspects of performance - throw, etc...

Can't wait for some comparison shots and reviews!


----------



## adrianmariano (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



HKJ said:


> They already do, for Cree XR-E (Typical values):
> Cool White & Neutral White: 75
> Warm White: 80
> 
> Not a very good color rendering and the warm white does not improve it, just changes what colors your can see.


 
I would expect warm white at 80 to be better overall than a bluer white at 75. The brain will adapt to changes in color temperature, so unless the light has some strange color artifacts, switching color temperatures shouldn't make much of a difference, unless there's some other reference in your environment for what "white" looks like. 

When I painted my basement a few years ago I had the walls covered with a true white primer. I started painting it with "Navaho White", a yellowish white color. It looked deeply dark yellow when I started painting. There was a big contrast between the true white primer and the newly painted walls. But once all the walls were all painted with this color the whole room looked white again. The brain adjusts. (It's called "color constancy".) 

Regarding the color rendering index (CRI) of those CREE LEDs, I don't think 80 is so bad. Most CFLs are 82. The best normal linear fluorescents are 86. Anybody know how the Nichia LEDs do? I've used my Streamlight LED flashlight (7 Nichia LEDs) quite a bit and the light definitely looks like it's missing something (in addition to being distinctly bluish). I only just got my first Cree recently (Fenix Q5) and haven't used it enough to get a feeling for the quality of the light. 

Another remark: 

Especially as you get towards higher color rendering index you will face a trade off between improving the rendering and improving the brightness. I actually installed fluorescent lights with a CRI (color rendering index) of 96 in my bathroom. They produce less than half of the light output as a normal 86 CRI fluorescent tube of the same power rating. (You can't even get these tubes any more. Probably they were discontinued because of their low efficiency.) 

The reason for this is that lumens are scaled for human visual perception and some wavelengths count more than others. You would get the highest efficiency by using a single wavelength---the one that our eyes are most sensitive to. The better you try to do...the more energy you have to "waste" in wavelengths that our eyes aren't very sensitive to, and hence the lower your overall efficiency in lumens output per watt input.


----------



## ninjaboigt (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



cbubu said:


> I already choose : I have a E20 (great light) but I need (flashalcoholism) the TK20
> I am more and more interested by long runtime with decent brightness than pure output. 45 lm is already great ! I have an experience with the E2L Cree 2007 (also 45 lm) in a 2 weeks trip in Madagascar where public lightening is inexistent (in winter, sunset at 5PM) and I found that it is enough for most parts of the situations. The 9 hours of runtime where very useful. The fact that you can have 150 lm with the TK20 is a great improvement for throw when you need it and the color temperature will be less disturbing for other people. The AA batteries are available all around the world and this is a great pro for this light.
> Regards,


 

Hmmm.....i think ur right ahhh what the heck, i'll just buy both!


----------



## Mr Floppy (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Oh man, I've just been reading up on the E20 and then I run into this thread. 

So is this just for throw or can you focus the head like the E20? I'm assuming that the T20K is not focusable?

Looks like I'll be buying both


----------



## HKJ (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



adrianmariano said:


> Especially as you get towards higher color rendering index you will face a trade off between improving the rendering and improving the brightness. I actually installed fluorescent lights with a CRI (color rendering index) of 96 in my bathroom. They produce less than half of the light output as a normal 86 CRI fluorescent tube of the same power rating. (You can't even get these tubes any more. Probably they were discontinued because of their low efficiency.)



Your can get tubes with high CRI, these have 98:
http://catalog.myosram.com/zb2b/catalog/getAtpInfo.do?display_scenario=products

And they have less efficiency that tubes with worse color rendering.


----------



## Gator762 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Wow, this could be the light I've been waiting for, but I wish it was a bit brighter like the L2D Premium. TK21 with Q5 Cree?


----------



## Marduke (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Gator762 said:


> Wow, this could be the light I've been waiting for, but I wish it was a bit brighter like the L2D Premium. TK21 with Q5 Cree?



That would defeat the purpose of using a warmer tint.


----------



## phantom23 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Yes but many people want L2D with bigger reflector=better throw. I don't think yellow tint was only purpose (they could put 5A in L2D), choice between Q2 5A and Q5 WG would be nice. WG is still quite warm but not awfully yellow (like 5A).


----------



## qip (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

choice of q2 neutral or new R2


----------



## ninjaboigt (Aug 19, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

i just did it! i preorderd the TK20! i hope its everything i expect from it....


----------



## adrianmariano (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



HKJ said:


> Your can get tubes with high CRI, these have 98:
> http://catalog.myosram.com/zb2b/catalog/getAtpInfo.do?display_scenario=products
> 
> And they have less efficiency that tubes with worse color rendering.



That link doesn't work for me.

The particular ones I am using were made by Philips and were discontinued with no replacement product. (They were F18T8 tubes.)


----------



## HKJ (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



adrianmariano said:


> That link doesn't work for me.



Then try searching for "L 36W/950 COLOR PROOF FLH1", it is found under T8 and color proof.


----------



## adrianmariano (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Thanks. I tried that search and something did come up offering to sell me tubes with pricing in euros. I changed my search to "osram color proof" and got a bit more useful results. I did see that they make an F18T8, but it looks suspiciously like it is marketed only in Europe, and I live in the USA. Clearly it's being marketed for special purpose use, not for normal lighting. But it's nice to see that these thing still exist. 

When I realized that the other tubes were discontinued I actually bought several from a company that had stock remaining, so I'm good for a while.


----------



## HKJ (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



adrianmariano said:


> Thanks. I tried that search and something did come up offering to sell me tubes with pricing in euros. I changed my search to "osram color proof" and got a bit more useful results. I did see that they make an F18T8, but it looks suspiciously like it is marketed only in Europe, and I live in the USA. Clearly it's being marketed for special purpose use, not for normal lighting. But it's nice to see that these thing still exist.
> 
> When I realized that the other tubes were discontinued I actually bought several from a company that had stock remaining, so I'm good for a while.



I believe that Osram is a German company, i.e. based in Europe and because of that they target their sales for Europe.

A tube called "color proof" sounds like a special purpose fluorescent, the more general purpose tubes are only cri > 90.

I hope that cri will be increased for non-incan lights, now we are going to be forced to use them. I like cool lightning, but would also like a high cri.


----------



## ninjaboigt (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

hmm it seems that the fenix-store changed the specs on the light... 

old:Turbo Mode: 150 Lumens - 1.25 hours 
General Mode: 45 Lumens - 8.7 hours 

new: Turbo Mode: Constant 150 Lumens 2 hours (Ni-MH)
General Mode: Constant 45 Lumens 11 hours (Ni-MH)

did any body else notice this?

im really liking the new specs! wish the 150 lumens would b 3 hrs instead though LOL i know..im pushing it. 

EDIT: also fenixlight.com shows it to be 2 hrs for 150 and 11 hrs for 45 lumens also! WOOO HOO!


----------



## 276 (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

thats pretty cool


----------



## MattK (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Yes, we received updated runtime specs a few days ago


----------



## 4sevens (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



ninjaboigt said:


> hmm it seems that the fenix-store changed the specs on the light...
> 
> old:Turbo Mode: 150 Lumens - 1.25 hours
> General Mode: 45 Lumens - 8.7 hours
> ...


Yes. They did a re-test with production lights using 2500mah Nimh's and 
had to update the specs. Theres nothing like underpromising and 
over-delivering 

We been pushing for a tactical style 2xAA light for the longest time.
They are finally coming!


----------



## techwg (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



phantom23 said:


> 4000K and less is called "xxx white" but light is yellow. Color rendition is also far away from true daylight - you can see Fenix pictures -everything is yellow. It's not natural and very annoying.
> Rebel is better because it's real warm white, doesn't make objects yellow.And no Cree rings!



I dont mind warm, but i will not have something which is like a P61 incan, because then everything looks tinted brown yellow. I like LED for the pure fact that its more white, and i can see better. A slight "hint" of yellow makes it warm, and good, but if its more than that, then thats not good in my opinion.


----------



## ninjaboigt (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



4sevens said:


> Yes. They did a re-test with production lights using 2500mah Nimh's and
> had to update the specs. Theres nothing like underpromising and
> over-delivering
> 
> ...


 
awsome! now hopefully fenix will produce a super monster thrower with the brightest LED possible( atleast 200+ lumens), to rival the tiablos and DBS stuff out there. HINT HINTTTTTTTT!

maybe they can use primary 123A and another model that uses 2XAA Nimh....im drooling over here.


----------



## Marko (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Woods Walker said:


> It may surprise some people but lots of hunters/fishermen and other outdoors types are big flashlight and headlight fans. Often during gatherings of hunters it is not long before people start pulling out flashlights from daypacks etc.



Yes, we really need those quality flashlights.  

Actually I just made my pre-order for TK20, hope it arrives before my upcoming hunting trip to Lapland. We have this yen darkness (polar nights) here in northern Finland - and midnight sun in the summer. Hunting seasons starts in the autumn, so now is the time to get some new flashlights.  I've been waitin a good AA size (inexpensive to use) flashlight, and since this have 4000K colour temperature, rubber armored body tube (yellow is very good in the woods), and two output modes - this sounds very good. Though I have to admit that Woods Walker were right: one more lower mode would be nice.


----------



## adrianmariano (Aug 25, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



HKJ said:


> I believe that Osram is a German company, i.e. based in Europe and because of that they target their sales for Europe.
> 
> A tube called "color proof" sounds like a special purpose fluorescent, the more general purpose tubes are only cri > 90.
> 
> I hope that cri will be increased for non-incan lights, now we are going to be forced to use them. I like cool lightning, but would also like a high cri.



It's definitely being marketed as special purpose. I've never seen a CRI over 86 for normal tubes. 

It seems like for general purpose lighting, if we're to abandon incandescents entirely then we need LEDs as a practical alternative. We need lights that will work in existing enclosed, poorly ventilated fixtures without shortening bulb life. We need dimmable lights. And as far as I've seen, they aren't here yet at any CRI. Last I saw there was a screw in LED light bulb for $40 being marketed as a 40W incan replacement. But it only had a 230 lumen output, which means it's more like a 20 W incan. The CRI is claimed at >85 so it's better than a CFL. Dimmable CFLs exist, but from what I've read, don't really work. And they are very expensive. I suspect that a lot of people will be stockpiling incandescents come 2012 when (I believe) they are to be banned here in the USA.


----------



## LEDAdd1ct (Aug 27, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Isn't today the release date for these? When are we gonna see a review? And *beamshots*? 

I am trying hard not to purchase one of these, since I just upgraded my Guider to R2 for hiking/walking in the woods. But if I see some beamshots and a nice review, I just might have to buy it!

Does anyone know what the hotspot to spill ratio is?


----------



## Mr Floppy (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

If you have a look at the powerpoint presentation for the TK20 on batteryjunction, the 6th slide should give you an indication of the tightness of the spot. Anyway, with my dodgy ruler and highly unscientific measuring, from that slide it looks like 
1/10th is spot. 

I'm just drooling at the 180 metre throw they mention on slide 7.


----------



## LEDAdd1ct (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Yup, I downloaded and viewed it, too. But, I am looking forward to a third-party review with comparison photos.


----------



## wishywashy7 (Aug 28, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

here we go again


----------



## brucered (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

a 2AA tactical light is what i've been waiting for. i was thinking of putting the E20 my Xmas list, but i think this is now the frontrunner.


----------



## Screwball (Aug 30, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Forgive my ignorance but this looks like an ideal light for an L.E.O even using re-chargeables with lithium primaries as a back up.From my limited understanding it would appear that you can even use normal alkaline batteries but your runtime would be greatly reduced .Please correct me if I'm wrong PS was there any mention of a low battery warning ?


----------



## HKJ (Aug 30, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Screwball said:


> Forgive my ignorance but this looks like an ideal light for an L.E.O even using re-chargeables with lithium primaries as a back up.From my limited understanding it would appear that you can even use normal alkaline batteries but your runtime would be greatly reduced .Please correct me if I'm wrong PS was there any mention of a low battery warning ?



Your can use NiMH rechargeables, AA lithium and alkaline batteries in it. It will probably have reduces output with alkaline batteries.

Fenix do not use any battery warning in their lights, or as least has not yet done it.


----------



## Jarl (Aug 30, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



HKJ said:


> Your can use NiMH rechargeables, AA lithium and alkaline batteries in it. It will probably have reduces output with alkaline batteries.
> 
> Fenix do not use any battery warning in their lights, or as least has not yet done it.



Output may or may not be constant with alkalines on high- chevrofreak did some graphs for the L2D, and the difference between high and turbo for alkalines was major. Hopefully alkie performance will be more like high than turbo!

Fenix did have battery warning in the form of strobe (50hz or so IIRC) on the TK10 when on high mode.


----------



## Screwball (Aug 30, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



HKJ said:


> Your can use NiMH rechargeables, AA lithium and alkaline batteries in it. It will probably have reduces output with alkaline batteries.
> 
> Fenix do not use any battery warning in their lights, or as least has not yet done it.


 Thanks for that mate this looks like it will be first quality flashlight purchase


----------



## Screwball (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Forgive yet another question but do any of you guys think the red filter /diffuser would fit the tk20 
Thanks


----------



## TONY M (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Screwball said:


> Forgive yet another question but do any of you guys think the red filter /diffuser would fit the tk20
> Thanks


 I think the red filter is too small to fit as it is designed for the P and L series.


----------



## Screwball (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Thanks I think I will be forced into getting a TK20 and an L2D Q5 just to cover all situations


----------



## Hitthespot (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Just got a chance to check a TK20 out. Interesting. It may only be 150 lumens but the spot was much brighter than the TK10 I shined next to it on the wall. It is definitely a thrower. I wish it would have been night time so I could have taken it outside. I did notice some rings in the spill but expected that with the smooth reflector. Also the tint is yellow. Maybe not as yellow as an incand, but much yellower than any led light I own.

Can't wait to see some of the reviews. Looks like this light could actually be a winner.

Bill


----------



## ninjaboigt (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Hitthespot said:


> Just got a chance to check a TK20 out. Interesting. It may only be 150 lumens but the spot was much brighter than the TK10 I shined next to it on the wall. It is definitely a thrower. I wish it would have been night time so I could have taken it outside. I did notice some rings in the spill but expected that with the smooth reflector. Also the tint is yellow. Maybe not as yellow as an incand, but much yellower than any led light I own.
> 
> Can't wait to see some of the reviews. Looks like this light could actually be a winner.
> 
> Bill


 
alright! a thrower is what i was looking for! thanks for the comments. cant wait to get mine...


----------



## Jarl (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Hitthespot said:


> Just got a chance to check a TK20 out. Interesting. It may only be 150 lumens



I think it might be 150 OTF lumens since it's released after the E20 which is 109 OTF lumens.

Someone claimed to get 6.7K lux at one metre with one, so it can throw alright


----------



## TONY M (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

It throws good and looks like a winner - I wish I had got one instead of the TK10. Only room for one TK with me...


----------



## pjhaas (Jan 15, 2009)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Does anybody remember when the TK20 was introduced? Since it's the first AA-based TK flashlight by Fenix it will certainly be updated by the TK21, but when? There will probably be 3 output levels but I don't know enough about Cree to know when an updated version of the Cree XR7090E will come out. For me the warmer color is a strong selling point. Especially when outdoors I like to see a warmer color tint. It feels more natural.

Sorry, judging by the start of this thread the TK20 was introduced last August ... Maybe the TK21 will arrive before this summer season on the northern hemisphere?

Ugh.. first post and I'm Unenlightened? But I've read Descartes! Doesn't that count? ;-)


----------



## Henk_Lu (Jan 15, 2009)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



pjhaas said:


> Sorry, judging by the start of this thread the TK20 was introduced last August ... Maybe the TK21 will arrive before this summer season on the northern hemisphere?
> 
> Ugh.. first post and I'm Unenlightened? But I've read Descartes! Doesn't that count? ;-)



:welcome:

Only the guys from Fenix know when they'll release an updated one...

One thing I am pretty sure : It won't have 3 modes. Fenix normally wants to keep the TK simple and though gives it 2 modes changed by tightening the head. All have tactical forward clickies.

I'm not into all that LED-thing, so I don't know what LED they exactly use and if there are brighter ones of that "natural" kind by now.

I've got 2 TK20, one for me and one for my wife, pretty satisfying light, I recommend it to geocachers for 2 reasons : It takes AA rechargeables and the warmer tint is just what you need in a forest.

Give it 200 lumen and an OP reflector and the upgrade will be perfect!


----------



## Duglite (Feb 24, 2009)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

Dammit! I just bought one to complement the wider flood of my EagleTac P10A2. I wanted a good outdoor thrower. This stupid forum is costing me a fortune.:hairpull:

I really ought to set my router's firewall to block this site.


----------



## 1anrm (Feb 24, 2009)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

 and it is only ~$56 dollars now at 4 7s  I might get a second one.


----------



## Ryanrpm (Feb 24, 2009)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Duglite said:


> This stupid forum is costing me a fortune.:hairpull:
> I really ought to set my router's firewall to block this site.



Now, THAT'S funny!!!


----------



## Duglite (Feb 24, 2009)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



1anrm said:


> and it is only ~$56 dollars now at 4 7s  I might get a second one.


Don't forget your CPF discount!


----------



## Pontiaker (Feb 25, 2009)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*

I have had one for awhile now, this thing is a thrower for a double a light! It has like NO spill, to the point that I wish it had a little more for moving around on a trail. Still a great light though.Cant wait to play with the new TK40!


----------



## Henk_Lu (Feb 25, 2009)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Duglite said:


> Dammit! I just bought one to complement the wider flood of my EagleTac P10A2. I wanted a good outdoor thrower. This stupid forum is costing me a fortune.:hairpull:
> 
> I really ought to set my router's firewall to block this site.



I'm glad that my wife doesn't know how to manipulate the router! 
I wonder that CPFer's wifes association hasn't created their own forum yet, discussing things like battery draining to make the flashaholic think his lights have no runtime, sabotaging the lights to pretend low quality and/or output, hiding the new arrived lights for a fortnight to make him mad at the dealer... :devil: 

At the time they even don't seem to have spys here who say right away "Don't buy that new light, your account won't like it and your other 97 lights will get jealous" and such things in threads. I know the reason. We always speak about CPF to them, they do some googling and land here :

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/home.htm

Good thing that CPF, isn't it? lovecpf


----------



## machoamigo (Mar 10, 2009)

*Fenix TK20 and 14500's*

Can two 14500 batteries be used for the Fenix TK20 or should I stick to NimH batteries as rechargeables?

Anyone tried this in their TK20 without any problems?

Appreciate your replies. Thanks.


----------



## phantom23 (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: Fenix TK20 and 14500's*

TK20+14500= Two Li-Ions have 6x more voltage.


----------



## Egsise (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: New Fenix TK20*



Screwball said:


> Forgive yet another question but do any of you guys think the red filter /diffuser would fit the tk20
> Thanks





TONY M said:


> I think the red filter is too small to fit as it is designed for the P and L series.



Yes the filter fits, no there is no red diffuser for TK series.
Fenix TK Series Red Filter​


----------

