# Sharpening system



## smrtprts

Which do you use?


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## TriChrome

I use this system:

http://www.gatcosharpeners.com/product/diamond/diahone_sharp_sys.mgi?mgiToken=41D30B033CE728F4AC5

They can be found for around $55. I believe it's good because it keeps the sharpening angle the same through the entire process. This means it's going to be easier to sharpen the knife the next time you do it, and should make the knife last longer since you're not taking away any unnecessary metal.

With a 25 degree sharpening angle, my large 10" hunting knife can still slice little slivers off paper, or shave the hair off your arm.


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## Chauncey Gardner

I use the Idahone Crock Stix for the pocket & field knives and it works very well. The angles are 20 or 25, comes with fine & medium ceramic rods enclosed in a small hardwood block. 
Very similar to the Spyderco setup with the triangular sticks but has been around a lot longer. 

Both produce a consistent & repeatable edge even if you have little sharpening experience.

For the kitchen knives I use Japanese waterstones because my kitchen knives have a very steep (typical of Japanese cooking cutlery) angle & relatively thin blades. 
For German type kitchen cutlery the Idahone or Spydie system would work great.

A lot depends on what kind of knives you want to sharpen & the bevel angles used on them.
A rounded bevel edge knife is another matter (Bark River, Hattori & others).


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## was.lost.but.now.found

I used to use the stones with the rods set at a chosen angle, but it took me an hour or more to sharpen all my (mainly kitchen) knives. I got this for Christmas and I love it: http://www.williams-sonoma.com/prod...ner/?pkey=cknife-sharpeners-storage|cutsshman. It works very very well for how easy it is. It's a two stage - carbide to set the edge and ceramic to smooth the burrs.


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## bthrel

Anyone try the Slide Sharp from CRKT? Looks interesting to me.

Brian


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## TriChrome

I have that CRKT one as well, and I don't like it. Probably because none of my fixed blade knives will fit in it (too thick of a blade, but they're only 1/4 and 3/8"), and it seems awkward to use with my smaller pocket knives.

I also remember the two angle options they give you are way off from how I normally sharpen (which is 22-25 degrees).


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## carrot

Spyderco Sharpmaker. Extremely versatile and easy to use.


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## gunga

carrot said:


> Spyderco Sharpmaker. Extremely versatile and easy to use.


 

Yep, me too. I love that you can sharpen serrated knives too.


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## keeftea

Chauncey Gardner said:


> I use the Idahone Crock Stix for the pocket & field knives and it works very well. The angles are 20 or 25, comes with fine & medium ceramic rods enclosed in a small hardwood block.
> Very similar to the Spyderco setup with the triangular sticks but has been around a lot longer.
> 
> Both produce a consistent & repeatable edge even if you have little sharpening experience.
> 
> For the kitchen knives I use Japanese waterstones because my kitchen knives have a very steep (typical of Japanese cooking cutlery) angle & relatively thin blades.
> For German type kitchen cutlery the Idahone or Spydie system would work great.
> 
> A lot depends on what kind of knives you want to sharpen & the bevel angles used on them.
> A rounded bevel edge knife is another matter (Bark River, Hattori & others).



I totally agree with your last statement. My setup is dmt coarse/fine benchstone, the duobase. Synthetic japanese whetstones 1000/4000 combo. Dmt dia sharps minis the 3pack with extra fine, fine and coarse. I have some oilstones that rarely use. I freehand everything. I love both but find the my dmt benchstone is the most useful, it trues my waterstones, oilstones if I have to and its very quick. The japanese whetstone is just a joy for japanese steel, it just feels like you are a accompishing something as you slice away the resin bond of the stone and for 25 bucks its hard to argue but my duobase is a luxury and I appreciate it. It really does depend on what I am sharpening, single/double bevel's and what I ultimately want to do with what I'm sharpening.

Ps if anyone wants to sell a an old norton white lilly pm me.


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## doktor_x

For cleaning up really wrecked edges, I use the Gatco multi-angle setup. For maintenance sharpening (and weird stuff like nail clippers), I use the Spyderco Sharpmaker.


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## Jedi Knife

I have to say Lansky. If you are using a Spyderco Sharpmaker, your knife probably doesn't really need sharpening anyway. The Lansky system (or any comparable ones that use a clamp and rod/stone combination) can take a knife with _no edge whatsoever _and make it razor sharp. I did that for a friend of mine who had a custom knife made for him but for some reason the maker did not put any edge on it (?). I dare any Sharpmaker user to try to do that with their sharpener. The Lansky system (or comparable rod/clamp style sharpener) makes every movement exactly the correct angle so there is no wasted material or effort; every stroke across the stone is the correct angle and working progressively with finer stones will make a ridiculously sharp, scary sharp edge that is shaving sharp.


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## smrtprts

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> I used to use the stones with the rods set at a chosen angle, but it took me an hour or more to sharpen all my (mainly kitchen) knives. I got this for Christmas and I love it: http://www.williams-sonoma.com/prod...ner/?pkey=cknife-sharpeners-storage|cutsshman. It works very very well for how easy it is. It's a two stage - carbide to set the edge and ceramic to smooth the burrs.



Hmm looks interesting. Sounds like you would recommend it?


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## Chauncey Gardner

keeftea said:


> I totally agree with your last statement. My setup is dmt coarse/fine benchstone, the duobase. Synthetic japanese whetstones 1000/4000 combo. Dmt dia sharps minis the 3pack with extra fine, fine and coarse. I have some oilstones that rarely use. I freehand everything. I love both but find the my dmt benchstone is the most useful, it trues my waterstones, oilstones if I have to and its very quick. The japanese whetstone is just a joy for japanese steel, it just feels like you are a accompishing something as you slice away the resin bond of the stone and for 25 bucks its hard to argue but my duobase is a luxury and I appreciate it. It really does depend on what I am sharpening, single/double bevel's and what I ultimately want to do with what I'm sharpening.
> 
> Ps if anyone wants to sell a an old norton white lilly pm me.


 
Agree, the DMT's are great and partiuclarly useful for bringing back your waterstones to a uniform level surface. I believe the combo stone I primarily use is also a 1000/4000 combo. It works very well & have not felt a need to go to anything finer. After that edge is put on I only need one or two light strokes on a MAC fine ceramic rod for occaisonaly realigning the edge. The Idahone does 10 degrees a side (close to most of the factory grinds in these types of knives) and works well on my Shun stuff, but some of the spendy stuff (Mr. Ito or Mr Saji if you are familiar with them from japaneseknifedirect) only sees the waterstones. 
It is almost meditative working some of them over.

The rest of the diamond (gerber etc) stones are far too aggresive for that type of superfine edge & better suited for thinning duty or bringing back field blades that are 59+ RHC.

Learned how to sharpen on Arkansas oil stones & will never go back:laughing:.
Way too much work & the surface hardness varies from spot to spot on the stones producing minor irregularities as you work the edge.
Not a big fan of the carbide V type edge shapers either for restoration purposes.

Have you tried any of the suspended diamond spray on a strop yet?
Been wanting to check it out for a set of bevel edge Saji's that are just wicked sharp, hand hammered damascus around 62RHC.
Was skeptical about a bevel edge cooking knfe, but they hold an edge forever & just fall through almost any prep job you can try them on.

Have you tried any camelia oil on the blades for protection / conditioning?
Much better than the mineral oil I've use in the past for this.


We need a kitchen knife thread around here for the ocd foodies next!


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## was.lost.but.now.found

smrtprts said:


> Hmm looks interesting. Sounds like you would recommend it?


 
If you're looking to shave with it, go with the Lanksy style. If you want a durable, even, sharp edge in 1 minute, then I absolutely recommend it (Williams-Sonoma two stage).


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## Batou00159

I recomend taling some time and lurning to use a whetstone in various grit 600 or less for damaged tools and knives and 1500 grit for everyday and when you need a fine shine you could splash out on an 8000 grit


And if your on the go try a fallkniven dc3 for a touch up.

p.s it dosent take as long as you think


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## darkzero

I have the Wicked Edge.


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## keeftea

Chauncey Gardner said:


> Agree, the DMT's are great and partiuclarly useful for bringing back your waterstones to a uniform level surface. I believe the combo stone I primarily use is also a 1000/4000 combo. It works very well & have not felt a need to go to anything finer. After that edge is put on I only need one or two light strokes on a MAC fine ceramic rod for occaisonaly realigning the edge. The Idahone does 10 degrees a side (close to most of the factory grinds in these types of knives) and works well on my Shun stuff, but some of the spendy stuff (Mr. Ito or Mr Saji if you are familiar with them from japaneseknifedirect) only sees the waterstones.
> It is almost meditative working some of them over.
> 
> The rest of the diamond (gerber etc) stones are far too aggresive for that type of superfine edge & better suited for thinning duty or bringing back field blades that are 59+ RHC.
> 
> Learned how to sharpen on Arkansas oil stones & will never go back:laughing:.
> Way too much work & the surface hardness varies from spot to spot on the stones producing minor irregularities as you work the edge.
> Not a big fan of the carbide V type edge shapers either for restoration purposes.
> 
> Have you tried any of the suspended diamond spray on a strop yet?
> Been wanting to check it out for a set of bevel edge Saji's that are just wicked sharp, hand hammered damascus around 62RHC.
> Was skeptical about a bevel edge cooking knfe, but they hold an edge forever & just fall through almost any prep job you can try them on.
> 
> Have you tried any camelia oil on the blades for protection / conditioning?
> Much better than the mineral oil I've use in the past for this.
> 
> 
> We need a kitchen knife thread around here for the ocd foodies next!


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## Batou00159

Originally Posted by *Chauncey Gardner* 

 
_Agree, the DMT's are great and partiuclarly useful for bringing back your waterstones to a uniform level surface. I believe the combo stone I primarily use is also a 1000/4000 combo. It works very well & have not felt a need to go to anything finer. After that edge is put on I only need one or two light strokes on a MAC fine ceramic rod for occaisonaly realigning the edge. The Idahone does 10 degrees a side (close to most of the factory grinds in these types of knives) and works well on my Shun stuff, but some of the spendy stuff (Mr. Ito or Mr Saji if you are familiar with them from japaneseknifedirect) only sees the waterstones. 
It is almost meditative working some of them over.

The rest of the diamond (gerber etc) stones are far too aggresive for that type of superfine edge & better suited for thinning duty or bringing back field blades that are 59+ RHC.

Learned how to sharpen on Arkansas oil stones & will never go back:laughing:.
Way too much work & the surface hardness varies from spot to spot on the stones producing minor irregularities as you work the edge.
Not a big fan of the carbide V type edge shapers either for restoration purposes.

Have you tried any of the suspended diamond spray on a strop yet?
Been wanting to check it out for a set of bevel edge Saji's that are just wicked sharp, hand hammered damascus around 62RHC.
Was skeptical about a bevel edge cooking knfe, but they hold an edge forever & just fall through almost any prep job you can try them on.

Have you tried any camelia oil on the blades for protection / conditioning?
Much better than the mineral oil I've use in the past for this.


We need a kitchen knife thread around here for the ocd foodies next!_


dindent see this kool some pros out there then:twothumbs


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## mossyoak

Hated my lansky with the fixed angle of sharpening, crap quality. Sharpmaker was much better and sits in the kitchen setup all the time. But the best setup I've found is my DMT diafold red/blue works like a charm on anything. But takes a second to learn how to use it. Now I can do it blindfolded and sharpen anything


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## nvrdark

Razor Edge Systems. I do not use there stones but with a large ultra course and one very fine stone and a large and small guide I can take any knife in any shape and shave with it in 10 minutes or less.


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## gunga

mossyoak said:


> Hated my lansky with the fixed angle of sharpening, crap quality. Sharpmaker was much better and sits in the kitchen setup all the time. But the best setup I've found is my DMT diafold red/blue works like a charm on anything. But takes a second to learn how to use it. Now I can do it blindfolded and sharpen anything


 

I have the same DMT red blue. DO you mean the 2 sided one with the folding handle? What technique do you use on that one? I do like it quite a bit too.


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## 276

carrot said:


> Spyderco Sharpmaker. Extremely versatile and easy to use.



I just ordered that one.


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## mossyoak

gunga said:


> I have the same DMT red blue. DO you mean the 2 sided one with the folding handle? What technique do you use on that one? I do like it quite a bit too.



Yep that's the one. It's hard to explain my method. Both the knife and sharpener both move knife moves in left hand away from me 5-6 inches per stroke sharpener tilts from 9-3 (flat) to 130-730 as the blade moves from base to end working from closest to handle out to the tip.


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## Styerman

I have a plethora of Sharpners . I mostly use a Sharpmaker and various Strops . The EdgePro and the Lansky are just too fiddly for my taste . I use DMT folding double sided hones in the field / jobsite , along with a Spyderco Double stuff . I have a whole slew of Japanese waterstones , which I use for chisels and planes . 

Chris


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## smrtprts

For those of you who use the sharpmaker, how well is it holding up? Can it be used to sharpen large kitchen knives as well?


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## gunga

I chipped the end of one of my rods dropping it on the tile floor



It is ceramic after all! It still works well.

You have to clean the metal off the rods fairly frequently, but they work well.

Yes, you can sharpen large kitchen knives (biggest for me is 8" chef's knife) tho I have mostly used it on swiss army knives. No other issues so far after a few months of moderate use. I still use a diamond stone for the heavy stuff (fixing dents in the blade and initial sharpening of edge that are mangled or severly dull).

The sharpmaker works, but is slow in those applications unless you buy the cotsly diamond stones (not really needed).


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## NeonLights

Another Spyderco Sharpmaker fan here. It changed how I buy and use (and obviously sharpen) my knives. After 3-4 years, I'm still on the original two pair of rods that came with it, but one of these days I'd like to try the other rods they offer separately.


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## Per-Sev

All I use is a Lansky Diamond System. I have sharpened more knives on this then I can remember and have owned the same one since it came out many years ago. I then strop the edge on leather with polishing compound applied to the leather. When my friends see how sharp my knives are everyone wants me to sharpen there knives for free of course so now I tell them if you own a knife then you must learn how to sharpen your knife yourself and suggest the lansky or something similar in design, even though I use a guide system I can still sharpen free hand on a stone and I think everyone should learn this first so you can sharpen your knife anywhere there is a flat stone if you have to.


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## smrtprts

NeonLights said:


> Another Spyderco Sharpmaker fan here. *It changed how I buy and use (and obviously sharpen) my knives.* After 3-4 years, I'm still on the original two pair of rods that came with it, but one of these days I'd like to try the other rods they offer separately.



How so?


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## TriChrome

So it looks like you're interested in the Sharpmaker now... you do know that it still relies on you to hold the knife perfectly perpendicular as you sharpen it, right? i.e. unless you're a machine you'll never hold it at the exact same angle every stroke and your blade will have more wear, and not be as sharp because of that.

Whereas with the fixed angle systems (which it is true it take more time, just as it takes more time to do most things right) like the Lansky and Gatco take the guess work out of sharpening and gives you the same exact angle every single stroke.

Since both systems seem to cost around the same I would be asking yourself if you want the easier but not-as-good system, or the system that's slightly more work but gives you a better edge on all your knives.


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## mossyoak

TriChrome said:


> So it looks like you're interested in the Sharpmaker now... you do know that it still relies on you to hold the knife perfectly perpendicular as you sharpen it, right? i.e. unless you're a machine you'll never hold it at the exact same angle every stroke and your blade will have more wear, and not be as sharp because of that.
> 
> Whereas with the fixed angle systems (which it is true it take more time, just as it takes more time to do most things right) like the Lansky and Gatco take the guess work out of sharpening and gives you the same exact angle every single stroke.
> 
> Since both systems seem to cost around the same I would be asking yourself if you want the easier but not-as-good system, or the system that's slightly more work but gives you a better edge on all your knives.



I'll be damned if you think you can get a sharper edge out of one of those POS fixed angle systems than a sharpmaker.


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## Per-Sev

mossyoak said:


> I'll be damned if you think you can get a sharper edge out of one of those POS fixed angle systems than a sharpmaker.



Are you calling a Lansky Sharping System a POS because if you are the its the best POS for sharping knives that I have ever used and I would not call it a fixed angle either its is adjustable depending on how and where you position the clamp in reference to the edge and point of the knife. There is more chance of error with a system that you hold the knife in your hand to try to keep the same angles is tough and if you let your knife get really dull then its even harder. I am sure you can sharpen a knife using yours but to call a good system a POS when just because you don't like and you use a different system does not mean yours is the best or mine is the best all that matters is that they sharpen a knife and you are happy with the results.


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## TriChrome

mossyoak said:


> I'll be damned if you think you can get a sharper edge out of one of those POS fixed angle systems than a sharpmaker.


I can't comment on the quality of the Lansky version you owned, since I own the Gatco version (both use similar methods, but the Gatco seems to be much better built).

The problem comes in with user error. I consider myself a very eye/hand coordinated person (play instruments, do card tricks, build mechanical devices with tolerances down to .1mm and small and fast moving parts, etc.) but I'll be damned if I can keep the same angle every stroke as I draw a knife across a simple sharpening stone.

Likewise, I can't hold a knife at a perfect perpendicular angle as I draw it across something like the Sharpmaker system. This user error is going to make the edge varied across the entire length of the blade, and take away more material than is needed to get a sharp edge.

I'm sure both the Sharpmaker and the Gatco will make a knife exceptionally sharp, but you can't argue that the user error is taken out of a system like the Gatco since the angle is kept the exact same, every sharpening stroke. This is why I believe the Gatco is a better system for most people.


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## Styerman

The Lansky system works , just messy , clunky and too time consuming to use . 

I go back as far as the Loray ( Grandpa of the Lansky and Gatco - muchg better built ) , I wasn't impressd then , and I'm not impressed now . I would no call it a POS , I feel there are better options out there .

Chris


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## Per-Sev

Styerman said:


> The Lansky system works , just messy , clunky and too time consuming to use .
> 
> I go back as far as the Loray ( Grandpa of the Lansky and Gatco - muchg better built ) , I wasn't impressd then , and I'm not impressed now . I would no call it a POS , I feel there are better options out there .
> 
> Chris


I started out sharpening free hand on a flat stone that my dad used and then I went to the Razor-Edge system and when Lansky came out with there diamond system that is what I have used ever since the same one and I don't use any oil I just wipe the stones down when I am done there is no mess for me of course to finish the edge and remove the burr I strob the edge on leather with polishing compound. The hole thing on a really dull knife can take me 15 minutes but most of the time I just strob it a few times and the edge comes back to its original razor sharpness. I to go way back with knives about 40 years. Its like I said before if you can't sharpen free hand then you should learn because the Lansky is clunky and not made to be taken in the field its something I keep on my work bench but when you are out and don't have the option of a nice system then you have to do it the old fashion way free hand.


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## entoptics

I have the Lansky and the Spyderco Sharpmaker.

Both are EXCELLENT for different applications. 

The Lansky is head and shoulders above the Spyderco for totally re-profiling an edge (heavily damaged, unacceptable relief angle, etc). Drawbacks for the Lansky are it's cumbersome handling, and the difficulty of using it on long or narrow (from edge to spine) blades, and it's tendency to chew up the spine of your blade without some jerry rigged clamping pads.

The Spyderco on the other hand is IDEAL for quickly touching up blades that already have a decent edge and relief grind. I use my spyderco for less than 5 minutes on my heavily used EDC Scallion once every couple weeks, and it keeps a razor edge. It's also great for kitchen knives in the same way.

As far as "perfect angle control" I don't think the Lansky is any better than the Spyderco. Holding a knife perpendicular by hand is pretty precise, and the Lansky has enough flex in the guide rods (and knife blade for thin knives like filet or kitchen knives), and the angle guide holes are big enough that you're kidding yourself if you think it's "perfect every stroke".

Anyway, 2 different systems that both work superbly for different needs. If you can afford it, having both is the way to go. The Lansky hardly ever gets used around here, but when I do need it for re-profiling or damaged edges, it's invaluable.


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## Styerman

Basically , if I can't solve the problem on the Sharpmaker , I breakout the Japanese waterstones and do it freehand . For field sharpening I use a DMT double sided hone ( Butterfly handled variety ) or a Spyderco doublestuff , I have a couple of doubled sided Strops in a ziplog baggie . I use the strops on my stuff , and the Doublestuff/DMT Diamond are for the benifit of my bumbling friends . 

If something is truly punched , belt grinder time !

Chris


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## Archie Cruz

I use fine sanding foam blocks from Harbour Freight and a two sided diamond nail file from a drug store. No ceramic rods for me thanks. Freehand sharpening.


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## smrtprts

Which of the DMT Diafolds would be more practical - the red/blue (coarse and fine - 600/325 mesh) or the green/red ( extra fine and extra extra fine - 8000/1200 mesh). Are both needed?


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## mossyoak

Red/blue is all you need. The white/green is to fine


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## eebowler

I used to use the sharpmaker (until I dropped my medium stone and broke it into two) but, recently discovered that wet/dry sand paper works WONDERS! Cheap, reusable. I can get a shaving edge with 1000 grit. Knives: Spyderco Delica VG10. Ka-Bar dozier (Aus8) and Buck bantam (420HC) Of course, I've reprofiled all these knives to have thinner secondary edges.

Of course, I still have the fine spyderco stones and use these for polishing the edges after 1000 grit paper.


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## Noctis

I've mostly been using my EdgePro Apex to sharpen my knives.

I have a set of DMT diamond stones, but haven't used them much due to my lack of skill in keeping a set angle.

The EdgePro lets you make steady, consistent angles on a knife, plus the edge looks really pretty and even.

However, even considering I only started using the system not even a week ago, I have to say that my Paper Wheels are going to be what I'm using for the foreseeable future.

It's essentially a paper laminate wheel with abrasives applied to the outer layer, making it very low cost and light. It's attached to a Bench grinder, so it's essentially a power tool sharpener.

The grit wheel is especially aggressive, putting new edge angles on a blade in mere seconds where it would've taken a good 20 minutes of grinding on the EdgePro. The downside is that the edge looks almost...sloppy on the blade(might just be due to my lack of skill).

The slotted wheel is of course, where the magic happens. That wheel will take any blade with an edge that has a burr raised, and slap a shaving razor edge on the blade. I find that the slotted wheel is the only one I really "need". It's good for touchups and the one I use 99% of the time. The time it takes to put the razor edge on the blade is about 15 seconds total.

A good idea for absolute minimum metal removal would probably be to use the EdgePro 120-220 grit stone to raise a burr, then finish up with the slotted wheel. I find myself spending nearly 30 minutes per knife going from the 320 grit on the EdgePro to finishing up with the 1000 grit stone.

Paper wheels shave off a good 90% of that time and are perfect if either your job calls for you to sharpen hundreds of knives, or if you're like me and would rather spend the next 6 hours stropping that edge even finer with submicron abrasive leather strops.


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## eebowler

A problem with these super fast grinding methods is the heat production. At the thin, primary edge of a blade, heat can mess things up.


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## cal..45

I have tried the sharpmaker, lansky, böker vulcanus and quite a few others. but trust me, nothing - and i mean nothing - can compare to a good waterstone. once you have a little practice (doesn't surprisingly take very long) you get wicked sharp edges, all those sharpening systems only can dream of. for me there is no way going back, couldn't be happier with my decision to try the "old ancient" method 


cheers


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## Noctis

eebowler said:


> A problem with these super fast grinding methods is the heat production. At the thin, primary edge of a blade, heat can mess things up.


That's what the wax is for.

So long as you don't mash the blade onto the wheel without moving the edge along, it shouldn't be a problem.

I haven't had much of a problem with heat, and quite frankly I think it heats up even less than a belt grinder.


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## waynejitsu

I use a Lansky or Gatco for profiling a blade and for very dull blades, etc.
Smith's also makes one, but with only 2 angles, I have one, but do not like it as well.
I also have the DMT Aligner. The diamond hones are great, but I do not really care for the plastic blade holder, although it has more angle settings than most.
Another one I have is the KME sharpener. I like it a Lot!! If you buy one, you can get the hones elsewhere or do like I did and modify it to use other hone sizes. I have it set to use between 4" and 5" long and 1/4" - 1" wide, depending on what I am sharpening.
I have regular, Arkansas and diamond stones, so just depends on what I am working on.
I also have a Sharpmaker for quick touch up's, maintaining, etc.
Lansky and others also make "V" angle boxes much cheaper than the Sharpmaker and work just as well, at least for me.
I do not know why the Sharpmaker costs so much, other than "Brand Name" as there are other "V" box systems that work as well.
There are also the hand held "V" grinds, I only use for quick touch up's and they also do fine for maintaining, but do NOT use the carbide side on my good knives, only for junk knives.

Either way you go, use what works for YOU.
Everyone has their favorites based on their experiences (or lack thereof), so, try out several and if you are like me, you will wind up with many different sharpeners for many different reasons (just like flashlights, knives, pens and guns, LOL!


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## malakye666

smrtprts said:


> Which do you use?



The best for me is the edgepro quick to learn and a razor edge every time


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## ishmael

+1 edge pro


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## oronocova

I've been using a 1x30 belt sander for a while. With varying belt grits. What I have found is that some 600grit, 20micron, and 9micron belts are about all you need. Get a leather one for that really polished edge.

I've done multiple knives for myself and friends and it takes about 10 or so minutes to re-profile to a convex and get an absolutely wicked polished hair splitting edge.

You can get into this for 60-70 bucks if you get the sander on sale at Harbor Freight and have a really versatile tool. It doesn't just sharpen knives, I've made a couple with it. Not to mention you can also sand things with it.


Other than that I used some strops I made out of old belts or leather stock from the hobby store and some green compound. Just sand them down to a suede finish with some 80-grit. Then get all the grit/residue off the leather. Rub in some compound. Good to go. That's enough to keep your edge razor sharp with normal use. If it gets abused just go back to the 9micron belt.

I carry one of those Gerber retractable diamond rods with I'm hunting/hiking. It has a tapered end which is good for serrations. I also just made a very small strop to take hiking as well but haven't carried it yet. The diamond hone would certainly be more abrasive that what I would do at home, but in the field it would only be used in an emergency.


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## m3flies

I use three Arkansas stones, coares, medium and fine. Patience and technique will give you a razor sharp edge ( i.e. shave the hairs off your arm) every time. I'm not knocking different sharpeners, if it works for you, use it. I just like using the stones.


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## calebra

edge pro to start, spydy sharpmaker to end. please insure ur fingers:twothumbs


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## Nitroz

After reading this thread I am clueless as to what I want to buy.

What is inexpensive, fast, and works well?

Or is this one of those questions that end up with the answer that you can't have all three and be cheap.


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## calebra

Nitroz said:


> After reading this thread I am clueless as to what I want to buy.
> 
> What is inexpensive, fast, and works well?
> 
> Or is this one of those questions that end up with the answer that you can't have all three and be cheap.


spyderco sharpmaker


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## Nitroz

calebra said:


> spyderco sharpmaker



Looks great, thanks!


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## eebowler

For reprofiling, the sharpmaker would be a PITA. Get a man made sharpening stone if you intend to do lots of work and finish up with the sharpmaker.


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## silat

WickedEdge


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## Dr Jekell

I vote for the Spyderco Sharpmaker plus the optional diamond stones.

I have only had it a few months but I am able to get a very dull knife shaving sharp.


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## csshih

edge pro apex.


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## m3flies

Have a Buck Alpha Dorado with 154cm blade. Can't get a good edge on this thing with my stones. Is there anybody who has been able to get this knife or 154cm steel razor sharp. If so. What did you use?


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## KiwiMark

I use a DMT aligner for setting or repairing an edge - I have 6 stones from XX Course down to EE Fine + curved hone for recurve blades and the tapered diamond rod for serrations.

For day to day maintenance I use a piece of old belt glued to a piece of wood with green polishing compound on it - if a blade is already in good condition and just needs a little sharpening then a couple of minutes of stropping should be all it needs.


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## HPFlashman

For the time beeing, I`m using the Spydie Sharpmaker to good effect, have a old Lansky set in the "mancave/study" that I happily used for the better part of two decades, before turning to the Spyderset. 

I also have a Tormek that beats the daylights out of the two others - but its not for field use...


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## kaptain_zero

HPFlashman said:


> For the time beeing, I`m using the Spydie Sharpmaker to good effect, have a old Lansky set in the "mancave/study" that I happily used for the better part of two decades, before turning to the Spyderset.
> 
> I also have a Tormek that beats the daylights out of the two others - but its not for field use...



While I don't have the Spyderco Sharpmaker, it's not because I don't want one. I have a couple of other "crock stick" type sharpeners.... one made in the shop using the LeeValley crock stick kit and the other is a Lansky Fold-A-Vee. 

Both of these crock stick devices work a charm after a knife is properly sharpened and I'll second the Tormek comment above. I have a Tormek with *all* the jigs and it is a terrific, though quite expensive, way of sharpening. I also have a couple of Canadian Made Viel Belt sanders with their various jigs that do the brunt of my sharpening these days. The Tormek steps in where the Viel falls short (typically areas where the Viel lacks capacity or the threat of overheating is too great) and the crock stick devices maintain my knife edges for YEARS between needing sharpening on my Tormek/Viel. 

I have a Lansky system sharpener, but frankly, it collects almost as much dust as my 1.5hp General Dust Collector.... Yes, it works, but it's so bloody slow that I can only imagine using it if I didn't have anything better.... and there isn't much out there that isn't! 

As for the Edge Pro..... the Aussie EZE SHARP blows it out of the water and I'd get it in a heartbeat if I needed a manual sharpener. Alas, I've already invested in a Tormek and there's no point in my getting the EZE SHARP as it just wouldn't do anything I can't already do in short order with my Tormek/Viel gear. I love sharpening tools and I'm having a hard time not buying the EZE Sharp, but deep down inside... I just KNOW that what I have will equal it in sharpness...... with the same or less effort. 

Anyone looking to improve their sharpening skills should spend most of their efforts on surfing the net and checking the options available..... It's horses for courses..... it all depends on YOUR needs, both results wise as well as financial wise. I have more money invested in sharpening than I care think about..... I sharpen straight razors which is a whole different realm.... I have Japanese ceramic hones, Natural Belgian mined hones, 3M bonded hones, 3M bonded to plastic sheet abrasives attached to float glass as a hone, leather hones, balsa hones and the list goes on. They ALL WORK, they are all DIFFERENT and it's only you that can decide what works best for you after trying some of the more likely ones. 

I wholeheartedly recommend reading the book by John Juranitch "The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening" as it really brings out the point of what it's all about. (Check for it at your local Library... why buy if you can borrow?) Don't get caught up in how they achieve their goals though, as all roads lead to Rome. Still, the book breaks the whole simple ordeal of obtaining a sharp edge down to the basics, and knowing that, you can then evaluate and select the tools that are appropriate to YOUR NEEDS. 

Regards,

Kaptain " Ouch.... anyone got a bandage?" Zero


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## smrtprts

I ended up getting the sharpmaker and a nice strop. The sharpmaker is pretty good after you get used to it, however like many have said, it is more used for touch ups. When I have to reprofile from 30 to 40 degrees it takes almost an hour. However, when I am done with it and the strop, push cuts, hair pops and body hair shaving are no problem.


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## TwinBlade

Sharpening systems for the most part will not touch ax like profiles. The geometry is too steep.

I use a belt sander for everything. I have macro photos LITERALLY whittling hair with my edges. Here is my video of it on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREokC4MPM0


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## kaptain_zero

Regarding the "shaving hair test", I have to point out that such a test does not really indicate a "razor" sharp edge. The test used by many straight razor users is the "Hanging Hair Test" . Pull a hair out from your head, then, holding it between two fingers, you bring it down across the edge of a straight razor. If it is truly sharp, the hair will simply fall into two pieces without a sound. Slightly worse is when it makes a slight ping when it parts.... When it only catches and tears or gets split instead of a clean break, it's time to get back on the hones. 

Another test often done is to pass the blade parallel to your arm but about 1/8" to 1/4" above the skin (depends on how upright the hair on your arm is). Hairs should cleanly cut with little popping and no tugging whatsoever. A horribly dull (when used for shaving that is) razor will still shave an arm clean with no sense of tugging or discomfort if you run the edge against the skin. 

When working on razors, I quickly run out of arm hair so I tend to use my bald head.... there are very fine hairs still growing out on the bald parts but you can't really see them. When my razors catch and cut those hairs with ease about an inch above the skin.... I know I'm in for a comfortable shave with that razor. 

Still, hand honed traditional razors, while sharp, cannot match commercially sharpened replacement insert blades for straight razors such as the Feather Artist Club straight razor made by Feather in Japan. The "Pro" blades are so wicked sharp, I find my facial skin thins after a couple of weeks of shaving to the point that the skin starts to weep plasma after shaving. Nicks happen without warning and my skin gets this glossy onion skin kind of look....... I'll stick to the duller traditional hand sharpened straight razors! 

However, there is only one true test of sharpness for shavers and that is the "shave test". That means, lather up..... grab that sharp edge and start shaving... If you can do that in comfort both with and against the grain and get a great shave.... it's sharp enough. 

Regards

Christian


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## KajLaursen

HPFlashman said:


> For the time beeing, I`m using the Spydie Sharpmaker to good effect, have a old Lansky set in the "mancave/study" that I happily used for the better part of two decades, before turning to the Spyderset.
> 
> I also have a Tormek that beats the daylights out of the two others - but its not for field use...


 
I do somewhat the same. Sharpmaker for the touchup, Edge Pro for the bigger tasks. With the Edge Pro I usally go through several knifes at a time.

Would like a Tormek for when the knifes are really dull ! 

Kaj


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## TwinBlade

kaptain_zero said:


> Regarding the "shaving hair test", I have to point out that such a test does not really indicate a "razor" sharp edge.
> Regards
> 
> Christian


Ok, how about we qualify "shaving hair" to say "hair whittling"? Make sure to notice the 3 or 4 micro curls too...


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## kaptain_zero

TwinBlade said:


> Ok, how about we qualify "shaving hair" to say "hair whittling"? Make sure to notice the 3 or 4 micro curls too...



Yup, very very nice for a fixed blade knife....  Not so good iff'n ya wanna shave with it! If a blade can't get though a soft hair in one stroke but rather has to whittle it away.... it's gonna take a while to do a whole face worth of hair. :devil:

It's "horses for courses" naturally. Razors aren't good for anything besides shaving or scenes from "Sweeney Todd". Which reminds me, a collective shudder went through the entire straight razor shaving community when "Sweeney Todd" was seen on the big screen singing, whilst stropping his razors* edge first * on the strops... Had that been a *real* razor, the strop would have been cut in two, the minute he began to move that razor! 

Regards

Christian


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## TwinBlade

kaptain_zero said:


> Yup, very very nice for a fixed blade knife....  Not so good iff'n ya wanna shave with it! If a blade can't get though a soft hair in one stroke but rather has to whittle it away.... it's gonna take a while to do a whole face worth of hair. :devil:


What does a fixed blade have to do with it? If I make a blade out of identically heat treated A2, CPM 154, D2, O1, CPM 3V, 154 CM etc etc etc, and put a bend in it or a fixed spine, it makes no difference whatsoever. Steel is steel, regardless of shape.

I also have absolutely no clue what you are talking about regarding a blade that is whittling hair is incapable of not "getting through" it. I don't think you realize that a simple touch of that hair to that edge cut the hair. It took take after take after take to capture that picture. My edges are sharper than ANY razor edge out of the box. I am not saying "some", I am saying "all".

I am having a difficult time trying to figure out everything you just said.


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## Nasty

Tb...they are not ready for the light. As on many gun forums...you can lead them to the water, but they must be willing to drink. Inserting barkfu here would be like them accepting the $2 flashlights at the dollar store...just ain't gonna happen. Save yourself the time and effort and just read about the flashy stuff.


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## TwinBlade

Barkfu. 

You're probably right.


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## fxhunter

Hello, 
New to the forum but I have used Lansky system and DMT's version also. I was not really impressed but they both get the job done. I now free hand on DMT bench stones. The WICKED EDGE system looks good too. I think there are several types that will work but use what works good for you.


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## Nasty

I get by with black compound on the inside of my belt.


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## applevalleyjoe

TriChrome said:


> I use this system:
> 
> http://www.gatcosharpeners.com/product/diamond/diahone_sharp_sys.mgi?mgiToken=41D30B033CE728F4AC5
> 
> They can be found for around $55. I believe it's good because it keeps the sharpening angle the same through the entire process. This means it's going to be easier to sharpen the knife the next time you do it, and should make the knife last longer since you're not taking away any unnecessary metal.
> 
> With a 25 degree sharpening angle, my large 10" hunting knife can still slice little slivers off paper, or shave the hair off your arm.



Just got one too but haven't used it yet! :wave:


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## iamdaloser

I use Japanese water stones and a leather strop but many of my friend use the Edge Pro Apex.


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## yamaha

Lansky diamond system followed by leather. This has worked for me since I was a child


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## kaptain_zero

TwinBlade said:


> What does a fixed blade have to do with it? If I make a blade out of identically heat treated A2, CPM 154, D2, O1, CPM 3V, 154 CM etc etc etc, and put a bend in it or a fixed spine, it makes no difference whatsoever. Steel is steel, regardless of shape.



Steel is steel and fixed blade knives are fixed blade knives and razors are razors. What is blazing sharp for a fixed blade knife might be considered dull when it comes to a razor meant for shaving. For the record, there are folding straight razors and fixed blade straight razors, the latter most commonly found in Japan but of course fixed or folding has no impact. My reference was to the fact that you are comparing a knife to a razor and that you somehow seem to think that being able to split a hair indicates a blade, any blade, is sharper than one that just parts the hair in two..... it isn't. Splitting hairs with a razor is quite common and is considered an indicator that the edge had gone dull...... A truly sharp razor cannot be used to split a hair because the hair simply falls into two separate pieces as soon as the blade touches it. I suppose it should be able to split the hair if guided correctly, but there is so little feedback from such a thin and fragile item that it becomes impossible... A duller edge will find the path of least resistance and that is sometimes down the middle of a hair, rather than straight through. For the record, the material a blade is made of, and which is much touted by knife users/manufacturers isn't much of interest to straight razor users. Generally, the old style high carbon steel blade, dating back into the early 1800s works just as well today as it did back then.... I have a dozen or so mid-1800s razors that I hone and use today, and they are as sharp as my last purchased, custom made by a Knife Smith who also makes razors, and this razor was made from some sort of fancy stainless super duper steel. This razor is great and I do find it holds an edge waaaay longer than a 150 year old carbon steel razor made in Sheffield England, but it take a lot more work to hone, and it doesn't shave any smoother or more comfortable. 



TwinBlade said:


> I also have absolutely no clue what you are talking about regarding a blade that is whittling hair is incapable of not "getting through" it. I don't think you realize that a simple touch of that hair to that edge cut the hair. It took take after take after take to capture that picture. My edges are sharper than ANY razor edge out of the box. I am not saying "some", I am saying "all".



May I assume then that you regularly shave your face with this knife? I surely would, without batting an eye, if it were as sharp as you claim. As for being sharper than any razor "out of the box", well... that does not say much either as *all* currently manufactured straight razors (not custom made by a razor smith, but produced in volume for sale) are not ready to use out of the box, no matter what the manufacturer prints on the box! Most reputably dealers offer a honing service on new razors to bring them up to shaving sharp standard. If you are referring to these newfangled cartridge type razors... well..... it's pretty hard to gauge them, the way they are made and encased in plastic. Older style DE (double edged) blades, aka safety razor blades can be quite sharp... many are sharper than what a traditional straight razor would be. Feather makes what most consider the sharpest DE blade as well as a few injector style single edged blades meant for their disposable blade straight razors. 



TwinBlade said:


> I am having a difficult time trying to figure out everything you just said.



Please ask more specific questions and I will try to explain what I wrote a different way that may help you understand what I was saying.

I took up straight razor shaving only a few years ago but I had been sharpening knives and woodworking tools for decades and I thought I had a pretty keen sense of what sharp meant.......... until I started with straight razors. These are entirely different beasts... the edges are very fragile and it takes a very light hand and the best quality hones/strops/pastes to get these pieces of steel sharp enough to shave comfortably with them. They are NOT sharper than some factory razor blades..... the sharpest blades I have used are manufactured in Japan by the Feather company... a surgical tool/razor company. They make some replaceable edge straight razors that are incredibly sharp.... but they are also more difficult to use without nicking yourself, or in my case, the blades I were using (Feather Pro) were so sharp they started to thin my skin! No pain, no rash, just so thin that nicks became impossible to avoid and my face developed a glossy onion skin look.

Straight razors are generally ground to end up with an edge angle of 12 to 18 degrees..... most somewhere in the middle, and this is of course useless for a knife, chisel or plane blade as the edge would just fold over or simply tear/crumble. Straight razors are unique beasts and can never be compared to the cutting edges of our more common tools. 

Regards

Christian


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## TwinBlade

You just gave me a headache.:shakehead

I sharpen a knife until it is sharp. I am then done. I suggest to you and everyone else to do the same. :thumbsup:


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## Coyote302

TwinBlade said:


> You just gave me a headache.:shakehead
> 
> I sharpen a knife until it is sharp. I am then done. I suggest to you and everyone else to do the same. :thumbsup:



I really don't want to start an argument but your statement is simultaneously dismissive, condescending, and lacking helpful information.

I have actually been thinking about this next question for awhile. In the knife world there is constant discussion about how sharp various steels can get especially compared to the "older" steels. There is also the discussion regarding different sharpening methods (the original topic) including materials. You suggest everyone to "sharpen a knife until it is sharp." 

*What is sharp?* How sharp? As sharp as a Viking on a grinding stone? As sharp as a my dad on his old oil stone? As sharp as your clearly demonstrated (no sarcasm) skills? Or as sharp as a fresh surgical scalpel?

This is an honest question. This doesn't even address the notion that an incorrect combination of approach, steel, and sharpening material may never achieve a given sharpness regardless of how long you "sharpen".

Like I said, this is an honest question to everyone out there.

Regards,
Rich


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## KiwiMark

I've ordered one of these: http://www.worksharptools.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=90

I'm going to practise on some kitchen knives, then some cheap knives, then I'm going to convex some of my favourites! I can't wait for it to arrive so I can test it out.


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## TwinBlade

Coyote302 said:


> I really don't want to start an argument but your statement is simultaneously dismissive, condescending, and lacking helpful information.
> 
> I have actually been thinking about this next question for awhile. In the knife world there is constant discussion about how sharp various steels can get especially compared to the "older" steels. There is also the discussion regarding different sharpening methods (the original topic) including materials. You suggest everyone to "sharpen a knife until it is sharp."
> 
> *What is sharp?* How sharp? As sharp as a Viking on a grinding stone? As sharp as a my dad on his old oil stone? As sharp as your clearly demonstrated (no sarcasm) skills? Or as sharp as a fresh surgical scalpel?
> 
> This is an honest question. This doesn't even address the notion that an incorrect combination of approach, steel, and sharpening material may never achieve a given sharpness regardless of how long you "sharpen".
> 
> Like I said, this is an honest question to everyone out there.
> 
> Regards,
> Rich


Rich, you can take the statement any way you choose. It is most definitely your right to do so.

I posted a picture of a polished knife edge whittling hair. You say "What is sharp?". If that isn't the pinnacle of edge sharpness, I do not know what is. Hair whittling is what I consider sharp. My ax's do it, my khukuri's do it, my knives do it. All of them. They will pop hair at a simple touch.

I will tell you, I have educated MANY a folk on knives and edge sharpening. I am a moderator on knifeforums.com, and oddly enough, I know what I am saying because I have also been educate and was WILLING TO LISTEN to those that wanted to educate. When someone looks at a picture of a piece of hair, sees that it is whittled and curled in sub thousandths of an inch and chooses to refute what I said and individually quote what I said, I will take the approach of saying what I said and what you also quoted and not argue the position any further.


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## kaptain_zero

RIch, you have actually answered you're own question with your questions. 

Sharp is: When you select the correct cutting tool, and it performs the cutting job you require it to do, with no problems/issues. 

Defining what is sharp is easy, if you don't make incorrect comparisons to other materials and tools while making the claim that "one sharp" is valid for another. It isn't. 

A Tailor is not going to be much impressed if you give him a pair of freshly sharpened sheet metal shears used by a Tin Smith, nor is the Tin Smith going to think much of a pair of Tailors scissors. And equally, a Butcher isn't going to think much of a Surgeons Scalpel, any more than a Surgeon would care to use a Butchers boning knife. To quote someone in another industry "It's horses for courses". 

I simply wanted to point out earlier that there ARE higher levels of sharp on a single edged blade, than simply being able to whittle a hair...... Yes, such a blade IS sharp, but it isn't as sharp as it *could* be. 

Regards

Christian




Coyote302 said:


> *What is sharp?* How sharp? As sharp as a Viking on a grinding stone? As sharp as a my dad on his old oil stone? Or as sharp as a fresh surgical scalpel?


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## TwinBlade

kaptain_zero said:


> This razor is great and I do find it holds an edge waaaay longer than a 150 year old carbon steel razor made in Sheffield England, but it take a lot more work to hone, and it doesn't shave any smoother or more comfortable.


You need to read up on modern heat treating.

What you said is basically like saying, "My bronze age copper alloy will not hold an edge like my civil war steel".

If you want an education, I will be happy to give it to you. Ask a question first though. Do not tell me "how you think it is" from misguided information that you have read.


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## TwinBlade

I also did want to add to what you said regarding, and I quote you...


"Straight razors are generally ground to end up with an edge angle of 12 to 18 degrees..... most somewhere in the middle, and this is of course useless for a knife, chisel or plane blade as the edge would just fold over or simply tear/crumble. Straight razors are unique beasts and can never be compared to the cutting edges of our more common tools. "

Nearly every single one of my convex knife edges are in the 13-16 degree angle range...meaning 7-8 degrees per side. When I sharpen knives for customers, I remove the blunt factory angle grind, remove the cutting impeding shoulder above it and sharpen them to around the same angle...13-16, maybe 17 degrees. I have batoned my knives through frozen red and white oak, through knots and cross grain in iron and muscle wood. Not a problem. heat treat and geometry are paramount in any edge. ANY edge. You are dead wrong when you say that is useless in a knife edge.


What did you want to know specifically?


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