# Mini Maglite LED 2AA mod



## EvilLithiumMan (Sep 4, 2006)

With the tailcap and batteries removed, push (hard) on the points indicated:






(I guess you could push directly on the emitter, but I don't like that approach)
The LED module will drop out of the bottom. The retaining cup will come out from the top.

Use a small screwdriver to break down the module. There is an offset line on the module housing (highlighted here). Take note of how the PCB and emitter housing are oriented to avoid the wrong polarity when reassembling:






The sense (feedback) resistor is labeled "R050" - it's the only resistor:






OK - here is where I became tired, stupid, sober or something. Without measuring the R050 resistor, I somehow decided it "had to be .050 ohms". I added a .10 ohm resistor across it:





But after adding the .10 resistor, I became suspicious. How did I know R050 equaled .05 ohms and not 50 ohms? Did I just increase the programmed current by a factor of 500? Well, the mod was already done. I had no practical way of undoing it. And I know damn well the circuit isn't capable of a 500 fold increase. Worse case, I had simply maxed out the converter. The only question now was whether maxing it out would mean the popping the emitter or failure of the converter itself. Hell, I've blown up $150 lights within seconds of ripping them open. For $24, I should worry?

Before the mod, I measured 380ma draw from both Nimh and Alkaline cells. With the mod, it was initially drawing 712ma with alkaline cells and 630ma with Nimh. The light is brighter. I can't tell you how much brighter until my roomate wakes and I can get a hold of his Maglite AA LED. He's usually up at the crack of noon.

I've run the light for 20 minutes in still air. It becomes warm, but nothing terrible. The emitter seems fine. The converter seems fine. Time will tell. I'll try for beam shots later today.

ELM


----------



## carnal (Sep 4, 2006)

Oh Noooooo..... EvilLithiumMan has MANGLED A MagLed! You'll probably be sued!
The evidence is here with full documentation! You've probably used SOME tool to open it with that mag CLAIMS to have a patent on (you know a screwdriver or something)

I hope Newbie weighs in on the PERFECT sense resistor for this lite (2AA and 3AA).
Guess we'll have to wait for a FULL report on your dastatdly deed.

Great to see an opened AA MagLed.

Great job EvilLithMan! 
Your sig line is missing a Magnadoodle you know! I have one for sale if you need one.
Brian


----------



## CM (Sep 4, 2006)

Ah ya beat me to it. Nice! How good is that thermal path from LED to the body? 

The higher current draw with alkalines confirm my measurement also, this is a voltage multiplier circuit which is great for alkalines. The fact the light didn't get very warm suggests that their heat sinking is very poor. I guess underdriving the snot out of the Lux III is the solution to the problem.

Now for the meat. The circuit (if you haven't determined yet) uses the Zetex ZXSC 310. 50 milliohms is correct and is supposed to provide 380mA to the LED.


----------



## ElektroLumens (Sep 4, 2006)

EvilLithiumMan said:


> With the tailcap and batteries removed, push (hard) on the points indicated:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your image is not showing up.

Took mine apart. Destroyed the keeper in the process (used floor press to push the LED module out.)

I measure the resistor to be .5 ohms. You reduced the resistance to .1 ohms. That set the output higher. Nice. 

The chip looks like it is a Zetex ZXSC310

I want to connect a potentiometer to the resistor points, so I can vary the resistance, measure the power and brightness. 

If the circuit can put out 712mA that is a good circuit. Perhaps it can be bumped up to 1000mA!  Might be worth it to take out the circuit, pump it up, put the LED and circuit into something else that can dissipate the heat better. The LED and the circuit have a value equal to the cost of the flashlight ($23). 

Wayne


----------



## CM (Sep 4, 2006)

ElektroLumens said:


> Your image is not showing up.
> 
> I'm trying to do the same thing, remove the LED module, but it's not budging.
> 
> ...




-The Zetex 310 based circuit is not capable of 1A from alkalines (or even NiMH).

-You will have a tough time measuring 50 milliohms also with standard ohm-guessers. 

-For the cost of the light, you're better off buying a Badboy circuit for $13 rather than transplanting the circuit into a better host.

-The BOM cost for this converter is probably less than $3. Zetex plus transistor is less than a buck.


----------



## ElektroLumens (Sep 4, 2006)

CM said:


> -The Zetex 310 based circuit is not capable of 1A from alkalines (or even NiMH).
> 
> -You will have a tough time measuring 50 milliohms also with standard ohm-guessers.
> 
> ...



A single Zetex 310 chip cannot do 1 amp, but stack 2 of them, yes, they can. I have one on my desk, made by Mike Jordan, which pumps out 1 amp from 2AA.

Badboy circuit: $13
Shipping: $?? probably at least $3 if he ships First Class
LED: $ Lets say $6 - $10

Total: $22 (on low side)

Or,

Go to Wally's World and buy a MiniMag LED for $23. (In oregon no taxes.) No wait for items to come.

LED is not soldered in or attached, thermal grease is all there is.

Cost is about the same. 

A zetex 310 circuit is extremely efficient. The Micropuck also uses a Zetex chip, and is most efficient circuit I've tried.

I do not see a capacitor on the board, or a transistor, both called for in the 310 chip circuit diagram. It puzzles me that it can work with no input or output capacitor.


wj


----------



## vortechs (Sep 4, 2006)

ElektroLumens said:


> A zetex 310 circuit is extremely efficient. The Micropuck also uses a Zetex chip, and is most efficient circuit I've tried.



Hi Wayne, 

I don't want to sidetrack this thread but I noticed your comment about the MicroPuck (2009A, 2009-HI). Where is a good spot to discuss the MicroPuck? Should I create a new thread?


----------



## ElektroLumens (Sep 4, 2006)

vortechs said:


> Hi Wayne,
> 
> I don't want to sidetrack this thread but I noticed your comment about the MicroPuck (2009A, 2009-HI). Where is a good spot to discuss the MicroPuck? Should I create a new thread?



I'm not sure where to discuss it? If it is in relation to a specific mod, I suppose it would go in this forum. 

I'm not the moderator of this forum, so I have no say so as to whether it's okay or not.

Wayne


----------



## CM (Sep 4, 2006)

ElektroLumens said:


> A single Zetex 310 chip cannot do 1 amp, but stack 2 of them, yes, they can. I have one on my desk, made by Mike Jordan, which pumps out 1 amp from 2AA...



Yes, but we're not talking about stacking them. The Mag LED 2AA only has one on board. Apples and oranges.



ElektroLumens said:


> Badboy circuit: $13
> Shipping: $?? probably at least $3 if he ships First Class
> LED: $ Lets say $6 - $10
> 
> ...



OK, you got me there. But I'd rather have a sandwich, better thermal path from LED die to flashlight body, particularly if you're going to boost the current to the LED. 



ElektroLumens said:


> A zetex 310 circuit is extremely efficient. The Micropuck also uses a Zetex chip, and is most efficient circuit I've tried.
> wj



If the zetex is the most efficient circuit you've tried, take a look at the TI 6100x series contollers. Or the synchronous converters from Linear Tech. They will make you real happy 



ElektroLumens said:


> I do not see a capacitor on the board, or a transistor, both called for in the 310 chip circuit diagram. It puzzles me that it can work with no input or output capacitor.
> wj



The circuit will run without a capacitor. Zetex calls it the "maximum battery life solution". See page 8 here on the 310 data sheet: 

http://www.zetex.com/3.0/pdf/ZXSC310.pdf

You can put in a capacitor at the output and zetex calls that the "maximum brightness solution" Mag chose the maximum battery life solution. It's cheap, requires only the Zetex ZXSC310, an NPN transistor, an inductor, and sense resistor and LED (5 components, probably around 1-2 bucks in quantity without LED)

Mag deserves credit (and discredit) for the design. It's about the lowest cost LED driver solution and it works. I used it in my first mod about 6 years ago :nana: and that light is still running though my kids now own it.


----------



## vortechs (Sep 4, 2006)

ElektroLumens said:


> I'm not sure where to discuss it? If it is in relation to a specific mod, I suppose it would go in this forum.
> 
> I'm not the moderator of this forum, so I have no say so as to whether it's okay or not.
> 
> Wayne



I found a good thread to discuss the MicroPuck in general. Let's go here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1579089#post1579089


----------



## NewBie (Sep 4, 2006)

Okay, I'll have to admit I am amused now. MagLite finally found the Zetex circuit we were using back in 2002-2003?

MrAl has a great many posts discussing the circuit.

Oh, and before I forget, remember, with a boost circuit, in the boost mode, the current going in, is more than the current to the LED (thus the LED gets less current than what you measure on the cell end of things).


----------



## EvilLithiumMan (Sep 4, 2006)

I got a hold of my roomate's 2AA - my light is brighter, but just barely. All the work was hardly work the effort, it seems. Worse still, my buddy's 2AA has got a great tint; mine is tinted blue by comparision.

As noted elsewhere, no "moon mode" - light flickers for about 15 seconds and then turns off. Looks like about 1.3V is the miniumum operating voltage.

If the emitter has only thermal compound on it, I will swap in a SX0H. The one's I have all seem to be great.

Thanks for the Zetex info, CM.

Wayne and others - don't worry about highjacking - anything is welcome here - where ever the thread goes, it goes.

Update - the Mini Maglite LED 2AA does indeed have a "moon mode" - just leave the light on after it has appeared to shut off. The cells continue to drain and shortly thereafter, "moon mode" is activated.


----------



## CM (Sep 4, 2006)

NewBie said:


> Okay, I'll have to admit I am amused now. MagLite finally found the Zetex circuit we were using back in 2002-2003?...



From Mag's Website:

"...If these products have been a long time coming, it’s because the MAG-LED™ Technology has taken a long time to develop to the point where it is feasible to make an LED flashlight that meets Mag Instrument's high standards of quality, durability, style and function.

Now, after years of research & development, testing and refinement, Mag Instrument is committed to introducing, in early 2006, a line of MAG-LED™ flashlights..."

The R&D, testing and refinement of... a circuit right out of Zetex's datasheet. I'm more than amused


----------



## ViReN (Sep 5, 2006)

CM said:


> From Mag's Website:
> 
> "...If these products have been a long time coming, it’s because the MAG-LED™ Technology has taken a long time to develop to the point where it is feasible to make an LED flashlight that meets Mag Instrument's high standards of quality, durability, style and function.
> 
> ...



if I am not wrong, Arc AAA also uses Zetex 310... yet it is successful and efficient... why bash Mag?


----------



## NextLight (Sep 5, 2006)

EvilLithiumMan said:


> Update - the Mini Maglite LED 2AA does indeed have a "moon mode" - just leave the light on after it has appeared to shut off. The cells continue to drain and shortly thereafter, "moon mode" is activated.



The sun sets well before the moon rises.

It seems once the 310 stops oscillating, it latches "on" with the transistor draining the battery thru the coil. When the batteries drain further, the 310 unlatches, turning the transistor off. The coil then acts like a ~.5 ohm resistor; The LED is direct driven at ~ Vbat. Not much light, but it is better than nothing I suppose.


----------



## NextLight (Sep 5, 2006)

ViReN said:


> if I am not wrong, Arc AAA also uses Zetex 310... yet it is successful and efficient... why bash Mag?



With decades of high quality US manufacturing and as the creator of America's most widely regarded 2AA incandescent flashlight enters LED game late... Could it be we expected more from Mag than simply copying the cheapest possible 3 year old circuit driver design from a manufacturer's data sheet?

The LED-driver assembly is a marvel of mass production mechanical engineering. Too bad they didn't pay as much attention to the circuit's engineering, and that they mucked up the form factor of the platform(s).

The beam is marvelous, and the brightness is decent. We can make it better. I don't care much for the package the AA LEDs lights come in. I want a 1 cell Ledean cutdown, threaded for the old tailcap, and will stick in a 14500. (hint, hint)

Bag Mashing; Who,me? 

I'm not waiting for Mag's
NextLight


----------



## CM (Sep 5, 2006)

ViReN said:


> if I am not wrong, Arc AAA also uses Zetex 310... yet it is successful and efficient... why bash Mag?


As I said, Mag should be given credit for coming up with such a low cost solution which fits their target market perfectly. As far as the quote, that is so pretentious as to be hilarous. We've been using this circuit for years and as Newbie stated, there's enormous material written about it on CPF years and years ago. My first mod (around 2001--I remember well since that's when I met Peter Gransee and I proudly showed him my home brew Luxeon LED light) used the Zetex. But times have changed and most everyone has moved on to more advanced circuits. 

On to the Arc--The Arc AAA does not use Zetex. They use something that no one would think of using for that application. Arc is a lot more innovative and creative than that.


----------



## kevinm (Sep 7, 2006)

EvilLithiumMan said:


> Before the mod, I measured 380ma draw from both Nimh and Alkaline cells. With the mod, it was initially drawing 712ma with alkaline cells and 630ma with Nimh. The light is brighter. I can't tell you how much brighter until my roomate wakes and I can get a hold of his Maglite AA LED. He's usually up at the crack of noon.
> 
> I've run the light for 20 minutes in still air. It becomes warm, but nothing terrible. The emitter seems fine. The converter seems fine. Time will tell. I'll try for beam shots later today.
> 
> ELM



Hey ELM,

OKay, it's probably something you have thought of, but were you measuring the LED current draw or the board current draw? The jump from 380 to 700mA should be a 40% jump in light output with a Lux III. Also, any that I've run at 700mA have gotten really warm really fast. Is there something weird about the circuit?

Thanks,
Kevin


----------



## greenLED (Sep 7, 2006)

ViReN said:


> if I am not wrong, Arc AAA also uses Zetex 310...


The ArcAAA doesn't use the Zetex chip.

Final comment: on SMT resistors the "R" represents the decimal point.


----------



## chimo (Sep 7, 2006)

Finally found this thread. 

I can confirm as well that the ArcAAA/AA does not use a Zetex. It uses a much simpler chip.  

Looks like Mag spent most of their "design time" writing up a patent app instead of actually designing. Using the Zetex is a bit of a let-down. At least in their drop-ins, they made a "little" more effort.

Paul


----------



## chimo (Sep 7, 2006)

Any chance of getting a pic of the inductor side of the board?  

Paul


----------



## ElektroLumens (Sep 7, 2006)

chimo said:


> Any chance of getting a pic of the inductor side of the board?
> 
> Paul



Here are a few pics I took of both sides:












While we all say whatever we're saying about the Minimag LED, Antonio Maglica will be making $100,000's to maybe millions of dollars on this little flashlight. 

Someone mentioned 'target customers'. This flashlight is targeting the masses, millions of people who need a small flashlight, and don't want to spend a lot for it. They don't care for all the hi tech gadgetry, low/medium/medium high/high brightness. Small small small and bright. Efficiency, etc. etc. They will not use the flashlight for one day, then dismember it, see what the circuit is, how to make it brighter. 

One thing good, is that as the masses get educated on the merits of the high flux LED, some will seek out something better than a 2AA low power flashlight. They'll get on the Internet, discover CPF, etc etc. They might even discover that it is possible to make a multiple LED flashlight as bright as an HID flashlight! 

Wayne


----------



## chimo (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks for the pics, Wayne.

Paul


----------



## CM (Sep 7, 2006)

ElektroLumens said:


> One thing good, is that as the masses get educated on the merits of the high flux LED, some will seek out something better than a 2AA low power flashlight. They'll get on the Internet, discover CPF, etc etc...



Gotta agree with you there Wayne. I've said the same in other threads.The average joe will now get a taste of high brightness LED's and create the demand that will create competition that will create better products that will benefit us all in the end. i'll stop short of giving them cheers though


----------



## will (Sep 14, 2006)

I have to say that I like the MagLED AA versions. The price - under $25 and the output is fine, not a bad deal. I built a light with a sammie, big reflector, lithium battery and all. It is brighter but at a significantly higher cost..


----------



## ViReN (Sep 14, 2006)

I feel that One of the main reason that Mag is so successful is that it is the Cheapest (& Brightest) High Quality USA made light.

the combination of brightness, runtime, quality and cost is best in its class

(though Flashaholic's wont agree to this and still Cuss Mag, most of Flashaholic's just want brightness & High Quality, other things are im-meterial)


----------



## will (Sep 14, 2006)

ViReN said:


> I feel that One of the main reason that Mag is so successful is that it is the Cheapest (& Brightest) High Quality USA made light.
> 
> the combination of brightness, runtime, quality and cost is best in its class
> 
> (though Flashaholic's wont agree to this and still Cuss Mag, most of Flashaholic's just want brightness & High Quality, other things are im-meterial)



I agree - for the money - it is a good deal...


----------



## NextLight (Sep 15, 2006)

I was in a "break sumthin'" mood today, so I stuck two AW early protected Li-Ion 14500s in MM 2AA LED light. Turning it on, I saw one brief bright flash, of light and then nothing. I thought 'Too bad; It was a pretty decent light." But...

It still works fine on batteries below ~4.2V total , apparently unharmed from my abuse! I repeated the experiment again, and then tried one Li-Ion and a NiMH in series, which runs for 1-2 seconds before shutting down. Still no hard failures. I have yet to determine the cause for the over-voltage temporary shutdown.

I am generally running my light on a single Li-Ion, while I look for someone in Santa Rosa, CA to do a one cell cutdown, with re-threading to take the IQ and other original style replacement switches.

Be of good (modding) cheer!


----------



## will (Oct 24, 2006)

I had to take a few MagLEDs apart for various reasons. I damaged the plastic piece that holds the LED assembly in the body. The damage is not real bad, just the very fine bit of plastic that forms the slots. 

The tool is nothing more than two pieces of wood and two 4D nails that have been flattened and shortened. The two pieces of wood are glued together. I drilled the part with the nails and pushed them through, the other piece of wood is glued on top. I tried it on another MagLED - it worked just fine






It took me longer to write this then to make the tool.


----------



## peacefuljeffrey (Oct 25, 2006)

I have to say that while it is sort of entertaining to me to read discussions like this one (particularly about a flashlight I have, myself), I find it very frustrating to have such limited knowledge and understanding of electronics, and electronic jargon.

I'm not entreating you all to dumb-it-down or something for folks like me. I guess I'm just venting about how frustrating it is to understand about 5-10% of what you all are talking about. Are you all electrical engineers or something? Or are any of you flashlight modders just average joes like me? When you talk about bumping current up to this or sandwiching that or stacking so and so, I get pretty lost.

-Jeffrey


----------



## will (Oct 25, 2006)

peacefuljeffrey said:


> I have to say that while it is sort of entertaining to me to read discussions like this one (particularly about a flashlight I have, myself), I find it very frustrating to have such limited knowledge and understanding of electronics, and electronic jargon.
> 
> I'm not entreating you all to dumb-it-down or something for folks like me. I guess I'm just venting about how frustrating it is to understand about 5-10% of what you all are talking about. Are you all electrical engineers or something? Or are any of you flashlight modders just average joes like me? When you talk about bumping current up to this or sandwiching that or stacking so and so, I get pretty lost.
> 
> -Jeffrey



Do not feel bad - you are not alone - I understand the mechanical end of it fairly well. The electronics - well- I am learning..


----------



## peacefuljeffrey (Oct 25, 2006)

As a matter of fact, though, _could_ you dumb-down the stuff you said: "There is an offset line on the module housing (highlighted here). Take note of how the PCB and emitter housing are oriented to avoid the wrong polarity when reassembling."

What exactly must be aligned in what way to assure that the polarity is not reversed? I ask mainly because I have read that something about the MagLED allows that it will be ruined if polarity is reversed! (I find that alarming, given that I have read that even inserting the batteries in the wrong direction will ruin the light.)

Also, for newbies who are thinking about taking apart their MiniMagLEDs, could you explain what is actually holding the module together and in place when assembled? What are we forcing against when we push the slots down as indicated?

Thanks for your help in achieving understanding here.

-Jeffrey


----------



## olephart (Oct 25, 2006)

Put the metal thing with the light bulb on it back in the black plastic thing just like the factory had it.


----------



## peacefuljeffrey (Oct 25, 2006)

I didn't need it dumbed-down _that_ far...
Besides, I thought it would be clear that the reason I would be asking is that one can potentially _lose track of_ how it came out of the flashlight upon disassembly.


----------



## olephart (Oct 26, 2006)

Sorry. How's this?

Put a mark on the metal thing with the light bulb and the black plastic thing before taking apart so you can put it back together just like the factory had it.


----------



## will (Oct 26, 2006)

There is no easy way to remove the plastic and spring from the tailpiece. The plastic piece gets pushed in and snaps in place in a groove. I removed the lip on the tailpiece to get it out.


----------



## Black Rose (Jun 25, 2008)

Anyone ever swapped a SSC P4 for the Luxeon III in these?

When all my parts come in, I'm going to have extra LEDs so I was considering swapping the LED.

Given the known heat issues with this light, would it be worth the hassle to swap the Lux for a P4?


----------



## Black Rose (Jul 7, 2008)

I've had my previous questions answered, but I have one more.

I plan on using Arctic Silver Ceramique between the isolated SSC P4 and the emitter housing. 
Ceramique did wonders for my computer problems (dropped CPU temp about 14 degrees celcius). 

Is there anything else I could do to give the 2AA MagLED a way to better deal with heat or is using better thermal paste about as good as it gets?


----------

