# Fake Panasonic CR123 Explosion



## coucoujojo (Jan 11, 2007)

I discharged 3 panasonic cr123 in my 9P with P91, so i removed the 3 cells and put them in a drawer and then i heard a BANG with a lot of smokes.
and i discovered that one of the used cell blowed up.

Can someone explain with cr123 would explode?


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## LED BriCK (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

Exploding lithium cells have been the topic of alot of discussion on these forums. First and foremost- VERY TOXIC STUFF! Do not handle the cell or breathe the fumes. Get to a computer in a safe environment and learn more- I predict this thread will become very active soon.


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## Fluffster (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*



coucoujojo said:


> I discharged 3 panasonic cr123 in my 9P with P91, so i removed the 3 cells and put them in a drawer and then i heard a BANG with a lot of smokes.
> and i discovered that one of the used cell blowed up.
> 
> Can someone explain with cr123 would explode?



This can be dangerous, don't breathe the fumes, don't touch the black stuff, and read this thread


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## coucoujojo (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

thanks! so dangerous!


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## supes (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

I didn't have a CR123a cell blow up on me, but I did have a AA alkaline battery in my light. It happened in a box, and the corrosive toxic stuff ate through the alumnium! A clear hole through the metal.
Be very cautious.


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## coucoujojo (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

With the CR123 it's suddenly happen, i have chance that the cell was not in my hand!


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## not2bright (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

Were they all brand new (not used in any other light individually)? What was the date code if you can check without touching anything bad.


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## LED61 (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

coucoujojo, first and foremost, DO NOT BREATHE ANY FUMES!!! get out of that room and do not sleep in it. I too think this thread will become active....a full blown investigation is in order. Some pics will help.


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## AndyTiedye (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

was it a metal drawer that could allow the battery to short-circuit?
(or was there anything metal in the drawer that it could short on?)


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## LED61 (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

I think a moderator should move this thread to the batteries and electronics forum.


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## coucoujojo (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

I'will send pict tomorrow but all i know is my drawer (wooden) is black now!


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## Illum (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

odd...previous incidents have explosions where the batteries are still in their flashlights indicating a possible short circuit. but you took these out of the flashlight, placed them in a wooden drawer...and they promptly exploded :thinking:

something doesnt sound right here, how long was your light on and did you notice anything unusual when you took the cells out?


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## NewBie (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

You can see videos and stuff, most of them are hidden deeper in the thread, and there are a bunch of photos later in the thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=124776&page=1&pp=40


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## BentHeadTX (Jan 12, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

The Air Force has had two Surefire M4 weapon lights get destroyed from CR123A lithium battery explosions in the last month. They now require that the batteries be removed from the light before the weapon is returned to the armory. 

For me, I prefer AA or single lithium-ion lights so I don't have to deal with the problem.


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## MikeSalt (Jan 12, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

Panasonic say that they will replace or repair any device damaged by their cells. Would you count your drawer as a 'device'? If so, it is covered. Might be worth an email to Panasonic to see what they say. 
I can only assume that one of the cells was overly-discharged for some reason and on the brink of blowing when you removed it. The acceleration kinematics of closing the drawer may have been the impetus for the explosion.


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## coucoujojo (Jan 12, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

Here some pics of the incident

PANASONIC CR123 cell










My drawer


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## coucoujojo (Jan 12, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*



Illum_the_nation said:


> odd...previous incidents have explosions where the batteries are still in their flashlights indicating a possible short circuit. but you took these out of the flashlight, placed them in a wooden drawer...and they promptly exploded :thinking:
> 
> something doesnt sound right here, how long was your light on and did you notice anything unusual when you took the cells out?



I used the cell until there's no more light on my SF 9P P91, the 9P was quite hot, but nothing unusual.


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## LED61 (Jan 12, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*

Gosh!!! for the unbelievers. Was it a loud bang or "rapid venting with flames" ? those panasonics if they are genuine look from Japan, strange. Are you sure these are legit panasonics ?


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## coucoujojo (Jan 12, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*



LED61 said:


> Gosh!!! for the unbelievers. Was it a loud bang or "rapid venting with flames" ? those panasonics if they are genuine look from Japan, strange. Are you sure these are legit panasonics ?


It was a BANG and smokes, no flames and it's genuine Panasonics.


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## Illum (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: Lithium CR123 Explosion*

stupid question but...you didnt mix cells now did you?


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## NewBie (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: Lithium CR123 Explosion*

The Japanese Panasonics are different than the US Panasonics, made by Energizer group.

Wow, glad all ended well for you, and your flashlight is okay!


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## coucoujojo (Jan 14, 2007)

*Re: Lithium CR123 Explosion*



Illum_the_nation said:


> stupid question but...you didnt mix cells now did you?


No mix cell


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## coucoujojo (Jan 14, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Pictures after cleaning (but still smelling horrible)


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## matrixshaman (Jan 14, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

I'd write Panasonic and send them the pics too. I guess in some ways it was lucky you got them out of the 9P before it blew - saved the light anyway and other than some yuk in the drawer to clean I guess nothing else really got damaged? As others said here be careful even with the cleanup as I'm sure this yuk does not make good hand lotion and certainly ain't what you want to breathe.


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## coucoujojo (Jan 14, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



matrixshaman said:


> I'd write Panasonic and send them the pics too. I guess in some ways it was lucky you got them out of the 9P before it blew - saved the light anyway and other than some yuk in the drawer to clean I guess nothing else really got damaged? As others said here be careful even with the cleanup as I'm sure this yuk does not make good hand lotion and certainly ain't what you want to breathe.



Thanks

No really damage, i only lost a SF V11 holster (melted) and a SF lanyard (melted).


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## Illum (Jan 14, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

sigh...i was contemplating on buying an 9P too...


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## javafool (Jan 14, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

This post reminded me that the other day I needed a CR123 for something. I took a new Panasonic out of the drawer, it was individually wrapped in clear plastic. For some reason I decided to check it on my ZTS tester before I put it in the flashlight. It tested 20% right out of the plastic, so I disposed of it and grabbed another brand. 

I don't remember where I bought these, but it has been within the last 18 months. They came individually wrapped, and are in a white plastic tray. I just opened and tested another and it tests dead.

There were made in Japan and stamped 3633 on the side. I have seven of these batteries left and they will all be disopsed.

I guess the risk increases as the number of batteries in series increases. We build a product at work that uses rechargable Li-Ion batteries connected in series. We sort each battery by internal resistance and install them in pairs by the resistance values. I know that is a different situation, but it is possible that this might also apply to Lithium batteries connected in series. I have no idea how much the resistance might vary.

Terry

Oops, sorry this happened and glad you are all right coucoujojo.


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## Trashman (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



matrixshaman said:


> I'd write Panasonic and send them the pics too. /QUOTE]
> 
> That's a good suggestions. They might send you a coupon for free batteries or something.


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## Casual Flashlight User (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Wow. I used to use Panasonic CR123's exclusively (the only quality cells I can get for a fair price in the UK). Never had any problems, but they were only used in single-cell lights.

Just switched to using Rechargable RCR123's and 18650's recently...I think my new rechagers and cells have just paid for themselves!

Thanks for sharing & I'm glad you are ok.


CFU

P.S. Where are your plastic wrapped Panasonics coming from guys? Mine are all in bubbles with a card back.


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## x2x3x2 (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Curious how/why the battery would explode after being removed from the torch and not in use eh?


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## SilverFox (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Hello x2x3x2,

Batteries get hot when they are being used at high rates. When you shut the light off, the batteries will continue top heat up for a few minutes, then cool down. If the heat gets hot enough to trigger thermal runaway, they rapidly vent with flame.

I recently noticed a light that I was using was getting very hot. I shut it off and a couple of minutes later pulled the batteries. They were over 150 F. As I recall, thermal runaway can occur at somewhere around 180 F. Also, keep in mind that the outside skin temperature is cooler than the core temperature of the cell.

When I realized that my cells were as hot as they were, I dropped them into a dish and placed them outside to cool off. My cells did not vent, but I think I was close.

Tom


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## LED61 (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*



coucoujojo said:


> I used the cell until there's no more light on my SF 9P P91, the 9P was quite hot, but nothing unusual.


 
Coucoujojo, by this you mean you completely ran down the batteries ? absolutely no more light ? or just big dimming ? 

FYI, if you run the batteries until there is absolutely no more light you are abusing the battery as per Duracell engineers words and is a big no no. And this is even worse if the cells have just undergone high amp draw rate and heat. The batteries continue to heat as there is nothing left and then probably the delayed bang!!


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## coucoujojo (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*



LED61 said:


> Coucoujojo, by this you mean you completely ran down the batteries ? absolutely no more light ? or just big dimming ?
> 
> FYI, if you run the batteries until there is absolutely no more light you are abusing the battery as per Duracell engineers words and is a big no no. And this is even worse if the cells have just undergone high amp draw rate and heat. The batteries continue to heat as there is nothing left and then probably the delayed bang!!



yes, no more light, but usualy when a completely ran down the light everythings ok (may be i was using P90 instead P91...)
So now i know i can't completely discharge battery!


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## JimmyM (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Be glad it didn't cause that box of CR123s to light off. Whew.


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## luigi (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



> I discharged 3 panasonic cr123 in my 9P with P91, so i removed the 3 cells and put them in a drawer and then i heard a BANG with a lot of smokes.
> and i discovered that one of the used cell blowed up.



Sorry to ask but why did you discharge the cells? If they are Li-Ion discharging is usually bad for the battery life, Li-Ions should be charged as frequently as possible without letting them run down completely if that is an option.

You can read this at BatteryUniversity.com many people are still confused, for NiMH cells regular complete discharges are good, for Li-Ions it is bad.

Luigi


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## coucoujojo (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



luigi said:


> Sorry to ask but why did you discharge the cells? If they are Li-Ion discharging is usually bad for the battery life, Li-Ions should be charged as frequently as possible without letting them run down completely if that is an option.
> 
> You can read this at BatteryUniversity.com many people are still confused, for NiMH cells regular complete discharges are good, for Li-Ions it is bad.
> 
> Luigi



It's not rechargeable batteries, when i say discharge, i mean "use".


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## LED61 (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Luigi, these were non rechargeable.


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## luigi (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Ah, thanks 
I read discharge and thought they were rechargeables, I didn't know panasonic made rechargeable 123s so it did sound strange.

If they were regular cells.... This is scary because they were not even being used so storing little "bombs" around the house doesn't sound like a very good idea. 

I would like to know what Panasonic has to say if you contact their customer service dept.

Luigi


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## coucoujojo (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

email sent to panasonic.


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## coucoujojo (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

That also happened to Surefire, batterystation cr123 cell. but why?


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## AndyTiedye (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

While _unregulated_ lights draw less current from the batteries 
as the batteries get weaker (because the light gets dimmer)
_regulated_ lights hit the batteries harder the weaker they get. To pull the same
power out at a lower voltage requires more and more current.
When the batteries have almost nothing left, and are at greatest risk of being
reverse-charged is when the regulator is pulling the maximum current.

Perhaps the regulation circuitry tries too hard.


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## coucoujojo (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



AndyTiedye said:


> While _unregulated_ lights draw less current from the batteries
> as the batteries get weaker (because the light gets dimmer)
> _regulated_ lights hit the batteries harder the weaker they get. To pull the same
> power out at a lower voltage requires more and more current.
> ...



The cell was used with a 9P incendescent with P91


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## Illum (Jan 15, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



coucoujojo said:


> The cell was used with a 9P incendescent with P91



And almost all the incidents are based on unregulated lights...about 5 incandescent and 1 led incident...

I believe the regulator unit actually helps to prevent this by limiting the current cells output, unlike unregulated lights where the resistance diminishes as the filament heats up...causing more current to pass throughand higher levels of discharge per unit time.


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## koala (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

The 9P is an alloy light. The hot P91 could have overheated the cell through the alloy body. The cell couldn't take the heat and explodes? This is my idea. I am glad it didn't explode when handling them. I learn now, not to touch hot cells.

Please check this link for the specification of the white Panasonic CR123, the maximum operating temperature is +70C or 158f.

http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-cgi/jvcr21pz.cgi?E+BA+3+AAA4005+4++WW


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## luigi (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

I don't think operating temperature is the real issue, all the incidents are related to 2 cell lights, never happened with a single cell, if it were just the overheating we would have some single cells pocket rockets exploding. Many one cell lights get very very hot and nothing happens.

Luigi


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## coucoujojo (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

this time is 3 cells light!


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## SilverFox (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Hello Koala,

One interesting thing I noticed from the Panasonic link is that the CR123 cells seem to be designed to withstand a 25 mA abnormal charge. I am not sure if that also applies to a reverse charge, but I wonder how much of a mismatch is needed to get to this.

Tom


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## cmacclel (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: My CR123 just blow up with dark smokes!!*



LED61 said:


> Coucoujojo, by this you mean you completely ran down the batteries ? absolutely no more light ? or just big dimming ?
> 
> FYI, if you run the batteries until there is absolutely no more light you are abusing the battery as per Duracell engineers words and is a big no no. And this is even worse if the cells have just undergone high amp draw rate and heat. The batteries continue to heat as there is nothing left and then probably the delayed bang!!




Your talking disposable battery's here. So people are supposed to throw them away before there is no more light? Make no sense to me. 

If the battery's PTC was functioning properly then you should have nothing to worry about.

It seems all CR123 manufactures need to test there cells to the limit before releasing them. There should be measures put in place so even if a cell was shorted they should not vent with flames.

Mac


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## LED61 (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

I thought I´d post what a duracell 123 goes through in this testing, all kinds of abuse: short circuit, heating above 300F, what not. And despite Duracells engineer warning of running down a cell constitutes an abuse, it should not cause fire or explosion as can be seen in extensive testing here.

http://www.duracell.com/oem/primary/Lithium/safety.asp#design

This is also confirmed by the engineer at Duracell that they have not had explosions. True, these are probably the best cells around especially in current draws of 2.5A as demonstrated by SilverFox recent testing.


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## AndyTiedye (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Has anyone ever had an incident with protected rechargeables?


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## SilverFox (Jan 18, 2007)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Hello Mac,

Battery manufacturers do test to the limits. However, they don't test marginal conditions.

The BatteryStation cells are UL listed. They do the same tests that Duracell does, and pass the same criteria. We have taken cells and shorted them without incident. We have completely drained a cell and hooked it up with completely full cells and have not had any problems.

The testing that NewBie did revealed a special "recipe" to get a cell to explode. You have to follow it step by step. If you make any substitutions, it does not work.

You start with an ambient temperature of around 80 F. Then you drain roughly 20% from a new cell, and hook it up with one that has not been used. Then you need a thermal barrier to keep the cell heat in, such as a foil tube, or a flashlight body. Then you need to discharge at a current that empties the cell in 1 hour or less with an incandescent light. Finally, you need to NOT shut the light off when the lamp goes out.

That is the recipe for the Titanium, BatteryStation, and a few other cells. If you follow it, things go boom. If you deviate, they usually won't. 

I am sure that no battery manufacturer tests according to these strict parameters, however it is still not known what "adjustments" need to be made to get the brand name cells to blow. I have heard of isolated cases of all brands of cells having problems, so it is just a matter of getting things "just right."

Tom


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## CdBoy (Feb 26, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

WoW! i usually use Japanese-made cells, now gotta be careful and be choosy. 

before CPF, i didn't even know that 123 can be dangerous.

at least i am now a learned person with regards to 123


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## etc (Mar 27, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

That is a most interesting observation.

I once a Malkoff M60 in a 9P to drain 123s down to almost 0. As an experiment, I kept them running until the lite looked like cigarrete light, barely visible at all. Nothing happened.

Thank you very much for posting.


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## Jay T (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

No one noticed what was printed on the cells?

"Matsushita Elestric"







Do a search on "elestric", Fake cells.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



Jay T said:


> No one noticed what was printed on the cells?
> 
> "Matsushita Elestric"
> 
> ...



Excellent pickup!!!


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## etc (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Looks like Japanese version of Panasonic.


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## foxtrot29 (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



Jay T said:


> No one noticed what was printed on the cells?
> 
> "Matsushita Elestric"
> 
> ...



That is funny s*it, I noticed the same thing on page one immediately and noticed this was an old thread, so I started scrolling through to see if anyone else had posted! Lo and behold, and it was just found today?? hahaha


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## zipplet (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Old thread but it's important I point out to people around here who don't know - the "Elestric" means the cells are *counterfeit* panasonics! Look around at other threads.


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## mdocod (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Any way a moderator could edit the thread title here so as not to be spreading mis-information? 

Thank You,
-Eric


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## ltiu (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

Time out! Time Out!!!!!

I thought these problems occur with lower quality brand CR123 only.

I am surprised Panasonics also explode. Made in Japan you said?

Now I am scared. I got about 50 Duracell branded CR2 (not CR123) in my stockpile, all made in Japan. Different size but same chemistry.

Shxt!

Oh wait, someone just posted that the cells are fake. Whew! I guess (hope) my Duracell CR2 from Japan are real!


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## ltiu (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*

OK, did you measure the voltages of the batteries before you put them in the light? Where they all the same voltages?

Also, did you measure after you took these out?

I always do with my batteries, measure both when putting in and taking out. Tells a lot.


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## Jay T (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



ltiu said:


> Time out! Time Out!!!!!
> 
> I thought these problems occur with lower quality brand CR123 only.
> 
> ...



Read the 6 posts prior to yours. 

Not Panasonic.


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## ltiu (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



Jay T said:


> Read the 6 posts prior to yours.
> 
> Not Panasonic.



Yes, just read it. Not REAL Panasonics. Thank goodness. I can sleep better now.


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## Jay T (Jun 10, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



ltiu said:


> Yes, just read it. Not REAL Panasonics. Thank goodness. I can sleep better now.



But, what if the fakers now have a spell checker.:eeksign:


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## [email protected] (Aug 10, 2009)

*Re: Lithium PANASONIC CR123 Explosion*



Jay T said:


> But, what if the fakers now have a spell checker.:eeksign:




Well they'll need to invest in some new PVC labels too!

Compare the pair! 

Panasonic "elestric" (fakes) Vs.







Panasonic poly-carbonmonofluoride and manganese dioxide (CFn/Li and MnO2/Li).


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## jp2515 (Aug 10, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Well they'll need to invest in some new PVC labels too!
> 
> Compare the pair!
> 
> ...



I've seen those white Panasonic CR123 before and I had my doubts about them. Glad I passed on those for better brands.


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