# CR123 vs AA



## paintballdad (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm new around here and been reading up on a lot of things. There seems to be quite a few post around here regarding CR123 vs AA format EDC flashlights. Kinda reminds me of Nikon vs Canon, Sig vs Glock and so on. Picked up my first sorta high end flashlight, a Fenix P2D and want to start picking up a few more lights. Before I decide if i'll stick with the 1x123 form factor,can you folks school me on the +/- of either cell. I know lithium cells are lighter, more dense power source, also have better cold weather performance and very long shelf life. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## Marduke (Oct 3, 2008)

My take is every bonus you get with the CR123 cells other than size format (shorter and fatter) can be had in the AA format, plus a TON more flexibility with your choices.


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## EngrPaul (Oct 3, 2008)

Although a CR123 lithium primary has similar W*h to a AA lithium primary, it has a larger surface area and significantly lower voltage. This means a bigger light and slightly less runtime... You'll squeak more W*h out of a CR123 with a 3.5 V LED light, all other things the same.

You can get CR123's for under $1 apiece if you're willing to buy 20 or more, E2L's cost more, even at the big box stores, no matter how many you buy.

The best thing about AA's is the readiness to accept standard AA batteries when the time comes.


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## Marduke (Oct 3, 2008)

Buying locally, L91's are $1.67-$2.50 each. CR123's are $2.50-$5 each. Buying name brand online, L91's are $1 each in bulk where CR123's are $1.75 each (both at the cheapest). Only off-brand CR123's can be found for $1 each. A L91 has slightly more watt hours than a CR123

For versatility, in CR123 you are limited to primaries, and a rechargable version which is of higher voltage and less energy. This means the rechargable version might not workin all lights. 3 chemistries total.

For AA, you have a choice of at least 6 different chemistries, from 14500 cells for high voltage (and more capacity than RCR123) though L91 primaries (longer shelf life than CR123's, and can be used in numerous devices other than flashlights), cheap and safe NiMH, all the way down to alkaline or super heavy duty carbon zinc cells in a pinch. Except for 14500's, all the other formats are interchangable with every manner of light and electronics, which is extremely useful for an emergency storage. One stash can power everything you own, making logistics MUCH easier.


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## matrixshaman (Oct 3, 2008)

You won't find a Novatac or HDS or Ra Clicky that runs on a single AA battery. That's reason enough for me to like CR123 format. There are lots of other very cool lights that use CR123 or RCR123. So if you truly limit yourself to AA format lights you are going to be missing out on some great lights. Sure you can buy a 2xAA tube for an HDS but it costs more than the light. I finally got swayed toward buying some AA lights (most of which also use 14500 3.6 volt Li-ions also) and am glad to have both for many reasons. I think if you stick around here for long you'll find plenty reason to own both these 2 very popular battery formats. I'm sure you will hear more on this and you can argue it at length as it has been many times before. It's really personal preference in most cases but in the real spirit of CPF when you have to ask between A or B just 'BUY THEM BOTH' 

And :welcome:


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## paintballdad (Oct 4, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> *just 'BUY THEM BOTH'*
> 
> And :welcome:


 Thanks for the welcome matrixshaman, I haven't been here long but that's one thing I'm seeing a lot of. I just *might* buy into both formats but will start with the 1xCR123 lights first.


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## Black Rose (Oct 4, 2008)

Marduke said:


> Buying locally, L91's are $1.67-$2.50 each. CR123's are $2.50-$5 each.


Man, I wish I lived where you are.

Here it's the opposite; L91's are $4.50 each ($17.97 for a 4 pack) and CR123's are $1.99 each (2 for $3.99).

EDIT: I was out today (10/04) and found 4-packs of L91's for $12.73, which is a great price here in Canada.

I like the size of the CR123 lights and see there are a lot of cool lights out there in the CR123 form factor, but I hate the idea of feeding primaries into them all the time. What is really holding me back from getting into CR123 lights is the lack of capacity of the Li-Ion and LiFePO4 RCR123 cells.


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## EngrPaul (Oct 4, 2008)

Here's an example of CR123's for 1.10 each shipped to your door, using your CPF discount.

https://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=53&products_id=552


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## metlarules (Oct 4, 2008)

Here's an example of aa's 60 for about $30 shipped to your door
http://www.batteryjunction.com/mn-1500-60pcs.html


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## EngrPaul (Oct 4, 2008)

I was comparing the cost of Lithium primaries... but the point is well taken.


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## LED_Thrift (Oct 4, 2008)

_I tried posting this yesterday, but the server wouldn't let me. _
Welcome to CPF paintballdad. 
In years past there was a larger difference between lights that used CR123's and AAs, with the CR123 lights having a significant advantage. These days I think the CR123's still have an advantage, but not as much as they used to. 
To me the most annoying problem with the lithium cell lights is that there seems to be a penalty if you want to use rechargables. The most common rechargable chemistry for lithium batteries is a cell producing 3.7volts. Some lights designed for cr123's [nominal 3.0v] can't use 3.7v, or just turn the extra voltage into heat, shortening the runtime. Some cr123 lights can't fit rechargeables. There are also dangers with some lithium rechargeable cells, although careful use greatly minimizes them. 

Advances in LEDs and circuitry make some of the newer AA lights perform very similarly to CR123 lights. AAs have a great advantage in availability and flexibility. If you need lithium for cold weather use, long term storage [without leaking!], or longer runtime you can get AA lithiums. The lithium AA cells are about the same price as the cr123 cells, and Energizer [the only AA lithium primary source] is comming out with an alternative lithium AA cell, which may give a lower cost option. 

Another AA advantage, IMHO, is that the best rechargeable battery available now are the LSD [low self-discharge] NiMH AAs, although I've heard great things about the 18650 sized lithiums [twice the size of CR123s].


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## etc (Oct 4, 2008)

Marduke said:


> Buying locally, L91's are $1.67-$2.50 each. CR123's are $2.50-$5 each. Buying name brand online, L91's are $1 each in bulk where CR123's are $1.75 each (both at the cheapest). Only off-brand CR123's can be found for $1 each. A L91 has slightly more watt hours than a CR123
> 
> For versatility, in CR123 you are limited to primaries, and a rechargable version which is of higher voltage and less energy. This means the rechargable version might not workin all lights. 3 chemistries total.
> 
> For AA, you have a choice of at least 6 different chemistries, from 14500 cells for high voltage (and more capacity than RCR123) though L91 primaries (longer shelf life than CR123's, and can be used in numerous devices other than flashlights), cheap and safe NiMH, all the way down to alkaline or super heavy duty carbon zinc cells in a pinch. Except for 14500's, all the other formats are interchangable with every manner of light and electronics, which is extremely useful for an emergency storage. One stash can power everything you own, making logistics MUCH easier.



These are good points.
In my experience, L91 in large quantities of about 100 cells, run $1 each.
I saw some 123s in in the same quantities for about $0.80. 

I don't think 123 have any advantages over L91.

Take Fenix L2D, you can run the stupid thing on:

1. L91
2. NiMH
3. Alk
4. Carbon Zinc
5. ?

My Surefire 9P, nice lite but will only run on 123s and 17500. M60 module will blow up on RCR123s.


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## paintballdad (Oct 4, 2008)

I appreciate everyone's input. I've noticed in some of the reviews regarding 1xAA lights that when running alkaline or NiMH cells they don't have the same max output as when running lithium AA cells. So wouldn't the comparison to CR123 primary cells be unfair. Having the option to use the other chemistries is nice but I feel that I'm not getting the most out the lights unless I use lithium primaries and the price difference would then be a wash between the two. And also regarding 14500 cells, AA cells are rated at 1.2 or 1.5 volts and the 14500's are 3.7v. How can these replace alkaline, NiMH or lithiums cells in LED flashlights when they put out more voltage? And are all 1xAA lights able to take these cells? So many things to learn......:thinking:.

And the confusion finally sets in.................


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## Marduke (Oct 4, 2008)

Some AA lights can take the 14500 cell type, it depends on the light.

Also, in most lights you get the same brightness with L91's as NiMH, just more runtime.

From a bang for the buck standpoint, NiMH AA's just can't be beat.


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## bridgman (Oct 4, 2008)

paintballdad said:


> also regarding 14500 cells, AA cells are rated at 1.2 or 1.5 volts and the 14500's are 3.7v. How can these replace alkaline, NiMH or lithiums cells in LED flashlights when they put out more voltage?


 
IMO it was the introduction of regulated LED flashlights that gave AA's a chance to compete with CR123s. Most LED flashlights and LED upgrades have built-in regulators (while most incandescents do not) and it is the regulator that gives you flexibility. Within the working limits of the regulator, it will simply draw less current at higher voltages.



paintballdad said:


> And are all 1xAA lights able to take these cells?


 
Not exactly. The best candidates are lights where the vendor uses the same circuitry in a variety of products designed for a range of battery voltages. In these cases the regulator will usually have no trouble running at either 1.2 or 3-ish volts. In other cases the light will work but some brightness levels won't work properly. As an example (going from memory here) Fenix uses the same head for 1AA, 2AA and 1xCR123 lights so the 1.2-3V range is covered, but if you put in a 3.7v rechargeable Li-ion cell then the low range is brighter than it should be.

Personally, I think the world needs some CR123-sized NiMH rechargeables (ie short fat AAs), 'cause the real advantage of CR123 over AA is that 2xAA flashlights end up being just a bit too long and ugly. I still can't bring myself to buy a Fenix L2D or LD20 even though in most respects it is a fantastic light. 



paintballdad said:


> So many things to learn...


 
Yep, it never ends. Just a warning, it usually takes between 1 and 2 months to go from :

:welcome:

to :



, and then a couple of more months until your first :


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## paintballdad (Oct 4, 2008)

Bridgman, thanks for the insight. As far as  and . Been there 
done that. As you can tell from my screen name that's my other hobby. And it isn't exactly an affordable activity. Played quite a bit too till recently when my right knee started to hurt and for a time was a little swollen for about 4 months. That's when I started shooting real guns again and stumbled into CPF from the sigforum. This place and sigforum has some real  folks. Friendly and helpful and a bit loony perhaps.

I might just stick with the CR123 format as I will be picking up a 18650 light to complement the 1 cell lights and I can always use 2xCR123's as backup to it. 

Gotta stop thinking now..........

Nurse can I have my medication now.


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## bridgman (Oct 4, 2008)

Sounds good. One other benefit of lithium-based batteries (ie the CR123 format, but indirectly) is that regulators tend to be less efficient when fed with very low voltages, and that step-down ("buck") regulators tend to be more efficient than step-up ("boost") regulators, so all other things being equal a light designed for CR123 or rechargeable lithium cells is going to have a slightly easier time putting out lots of light and/or running for a long time. It is pretty impressive what can be done with a single NiMH AA though...

The 18650 with CR123 backup seems like a real nice idea. Haven't tried it myself since my 18650 lights (Electrolumens DeCree and a pending EDC-P7) are direct drive and so can't take the higher voltage of 2x 123 cells, but it seems like a very practical combination.


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## alank2 (Oct 4, 2008)

Hi,

I was taking a look at how the current was consumed for a L1T (AA), L2T (2xAA), and P3D (2x123), and here are my scope traces. I sure like how smooth the buck circuit in the P3D is compared to the others.

















Thanks,

Alan


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## Black Rose (Oct 4, 2008)

EngrPaul said:


> Although a CR123 lithium primary has similar W*h to a AA lithium primary, it has a larger surface area and significantly lower voltage.


:huh2:

A CR123 lithium primary is 3 volts and an L91 AA lithium primary is 1.5 volts. 

How does a single CR123 have lower voltage compared to a single L91?


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## EngrPaul (Oct 4, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> :huh2:
> 
> A CR123 lithium primary is 3 volts and an L91 AA lithium primary is 1.5 volts.
> 
> How does a single CR123 have lower voltage compared to a single L91?


 

Bad sentence I guess. I was referring to the larger surface footprint and lower voltage of the AA.


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## Kestrel (Oct 5, 2008)

bridgman said:


> Personally, I think the world needs some CR123-sized NiMH rechargeables (ie short fat AAs), 'cause the real advantage of CR123 over AA is that 2xAA flashlights end up being just a bit too long and ugly.


 
Here ya go:
NiMH 123:
http://www.batteryjunction.com/k2eh-g23a1050p.html

NiMH A (not AA):
http://www.batteryjunction.com/sy-mha2700b.html

I had considered both of these for my C3 w/M30, but figured that neither of these would perform as well as LSD Eneloops AA's over the long haul.


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## Guy's Dropper (Oct 7, 2008)

A similar question has been irking me for several weeks as well. I've been thinking about buying either the Nitecore D10 or the EX10 as my EDC. They are the same price, and in this case, size isn't a factor, due to the EX10 being slightly too small for my hand and the D10 taking up slightly more space in my pocket. The D10 has the advantage of running off of an extremely common and pletiful power supply. I can take the batteries out of a remote and put them in my D10! Then there's the EX10, which would have double the runtime, and I have plenty of CR123A batteries at my house... But what if I was away from my house and the batteries needed replacing?! ARG!!! If I choose one, I know I will want the greater runtime, but if I choose the other, I will regret the lack of battery flexibility... Somebody help me solve this dilemma!

And don't tell me to buy both. I can't carry both around with me. Besides, I'm trying to save up to buy my first car.


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## kaichu dento (Oct 7, 2008)

Guy's Dropper said:


> And don't tell me to buy both. I can't carry both around with me. Besides, I'm trying to save up to buy my first car.


But if you do buy both and have one in each hand you can walk down the highway and people will think you're a car! 

On a more serious note, I have been carrying a D10 from the first release and seldom have to change batteries; I say go with the D10.


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## Guy's Dropper (Oct 7, 2008)

Hmmm.. Is there such thing as an ARCAA, or do they only make ARCAAA? If I could get an ARCAA, I could have that on my keyring and I could keep the EX10 in my pocket.


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## carrot (Oct 7, 2008)

It's pretty clear to me that 123 is a superior power source if you don't mind the small cons: somewhat less common, makes AA-powered lights look large and underpowered. I have standardized on 123's for all but my loaner lights and I must say, I am exceedingly happy with myself.

Simply put they just pack much more punch than their AA-based counterparts, and unless you jump to Li-ion, you get a higher driver inefficiency due to having to boost from a lower voltage to feed hungry LED's. No matter how you slice it, an AA-based light will be less efficient than a similarly-sized CR123 light due to having less than half the voltage, and the poor alkaline chemistry. If you move up to lithium or NiMH you lose a a huge benefit to AA (cheap, disposable) without gaining the extra voltage a CR123 cranks out (better efficiency, as I noted), but you do gain a flatter output. 

The only real advantage for AA over CR123 that I see being a huge selling point for our demographic is rechargeables... it is true that you can pop NiMH into any old flashlight but there are quite a few good solutions for most CR123 lights, although the 3.0v voltage-limited are quite unsatisfactory and the 3.7v 17650's may not work in all lights (nor 2x 3.7 RCR123).

Having a commonly available battery is good if you're in a third world country, but you can find CR123's almost anywhere in the more affluent nations, which it seems most CPFers are from. Even better, in a blackout or something you will still be able to get CR123's when the AA's and others fly off the shelves. Of course that says nothing to the fact that if you rely on your flashlight you should always carry a spare, or at least a few spare batteries.

An added bonus -- the flashlight industry still recognizes CR123's as being the choice of high-end consumers. Whether or not this will change in the future is up to the industry as a whole but I dare you to find a light as nice as McGizmo or Surefire that runs on AA's. You won't find very many, if at all, there.

There is definitely a place for both battery types in the industry but I see the CR123 format as being superior for an EDC. It's just more powerful for the size, and more efficient to boot.


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## carrot (Oct 7, 2008)

Guy's Dropper said:


> Hmmm.. Is there such thing as an ARCAA, or do they only make ARCAAA? If I could get an ARCAA, I could have that on my keyring and I could keep the EX10 in my pocket.


There is one, but good luck finding them! They were made a long time ago and none have been made since. Instead, try these mostly satisfactory alternatives: a Peak Kilimanjaro from PeakLEDSolutions.net or the Valiant Concepts AA body for Arc-AAA sold at JSBurlysFlashlights.com or a Gerber (or CMG) Infinity Ultra


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## Kestrel (Oct 7, 2008)

carrot said:


> It's pretty clear to me that 123 is a superior power source...


 
That's a particularly well-thought-out writeup. It's almost like you could write a guide or something...

Thanks,


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## jag-engr (Oct 7, 2008)

Marduke said:


> Buying name brand online, L91's are $1 each in bulk where CR123's are $1.75 each...


 
Marduke,

I'd really like to throw some of these in an emergency kit that I'm preparing! Where can you get L91's for $1 each and how many do you have to buy?


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## Marduke (Oct 7, 2008)

jag-engr said:


> Marduke,
> 
> I'd really like to throw some of these in an emergency kit that I'm preparing! Where can you get L91's for $1 each and how many do you have to buy?



You can get them in bulk at places like eBay for $1 ea if you buy 50-100. In smaller quantities, you can get 12 packs for $20 at Sams Club ($1.67 ea)


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## sbyers77 (Nov 24, 2008)

I'm new here but I had a similar question.

Between a single CR123 and a single AA the CR123 seems to be the clear winner. But what about when we compare a single CR123 vs. *two* AA? If I'm looking at this right 2xAA in series will be the same voltage as a single CR123, but contain more energy. If size is not an issue what are the pros/cons of a single CR123 vs. 2xAA?


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## kaichu dento (Nov 25, 2008)

It all depends on your criteria as to which is better and there are arguments back and forth as to which. Suffice to say that one persons best is anothers not good enough. The clear winner is which ever one serves it's purposes the best.
You can compare the two power sources from a variety of perspectives and make either one the winner depending on what is most important. I think both will be around for a long time.


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## UnknownVT (Nov 25, 2008)

I have a preference for 1x AA light, just because how common the AA batteries are.

However I do recognize the advantages of the CR123 - having higher potential/voltage - intrinscally it can drive more power.

Most 1x CR123 lights are rated brighter than 1x AA lights (other than using 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 14500) - in the ballpark of 180 lumens for 1x CR123, and 120-130 lumens for 1x AA lights for good modern regulated lights. 

Although 50-60 lumens or 38-50% more sounds a lot - 
it isn't dramatic for real-life usage.

I just did a direct comparison of a rather good 1x AA light directly side-by-side with a couple of good 1x CR123 lights - please see Post #*4* in EagleTac P10A Comparison Review


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 25, 2008)

I tried to find a useful 1AA EDC but never quite got there.

I bought a Fenix 4in1 pack with P2 and L1 bodies and a Q5 head. I prefer to use it as a P2 because turbo is noticeably brighter on 123 as opposed to AA.

I have made a deal on a LumaPower Connexion to try. It gets a bit brighter in high than the L1 does but has no turbo (or strobes - YIPPEE!!!).


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## etc (Nov 25, 2008)

sbyers77 said:


> I'm new here but I had a similar question.
> 
> Between a single CR123 and a single AA the CR123 seems to be the clear winner. But what about when we compare a single CR123 vs. *two* AA? If I'm looking at this right 2xAA in series will be the same voltage as a single CR123, but contain more energy. If size is not an issue what are the pros/cons of a single CR123 vs. 2xAA?



That's right, 2AA (L91) rules over 1x123.


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## etc (Nov 25, 2008)

carrot said:


> Even better, in a blackout or something you will still be able to get CR123's when the AA's and others fly off the shelves. .




That's a huge assumption. I think they all be cleaned out, with the rare cells gone first IMO.

But irrelevant to me, I don't need to buy anything, ever, as I *have* the cells. Poor choice to depend logistics on grocery store availability.


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## kaichu dento (Nov 25, 2008)

etc said:


> That's a huge assumption. I think they all be cleaned out, with the rare cells gone first IMO.
> 
> But irrelevant to me, I don't need to buy anything, ever, as I *have* the cells. Poor choice to depend logistics on grocery store availability.


Case in point was a point by another poster a while back where his dad paid about $36 for a single CR123!


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## mdocod (Nov 26, 2008)

CR123s are far more exciting. 99 out of 100 reported battery explosions are with CR123s, who would want to pass up that kind of solid reputation?


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## jzmtl (Nov 26, 2008)

etc said:


> That's right, 2AA (L91) rules over 1x123.


True, but that's like saying two guys will always beat a single guy, makes no sense in comparison.


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## Marduke (Nov 26, 2008)

One L91 actually has more stored energy than one CR123.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 26, 2008)

Call me crazy (many people do).

I don't feel "responsible" using L91. I put them in lights that I want to work when I need them. In a few cases three L91 replace 3C in a couple lights that alk almost killed. These are not "user" lights however.

I use a 123 primary in my P2D and get a month or more of use from one.

In ANY of my bigger 2x123 or 1xLiIon lights I run them on free power of LiIon!

In my AA or AAA lights I use LSD NimH again for free power.

The P2D is a special case. It will run on a 3V RCR but not as long. In this light primaries are the way to fly.


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## Black Rose (Nov 26, 2008)

I like both formats - 123 for it's compact size and AA for it's versatility.

I currently only have a few lights that can take CR123 cells, so I simply use primaries. These lights are destined for cold weather duty, so primaries are the only real choice.

I also have some AA lights in the car that will see really cold weather - they have L91 cells in them.

Everything else gets LSD NiMh cells.


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## snakyjake (Nov 27, 2008)

The way I answered your question for myself is looking at size, runtime, cost, and output. 

Except for maybe cost, CR123's have all the advantages. The more you use your light on high, the more it's going to cost.

I think your question should also include battery chemistry. AA can come in lithium, therefore have advantages of long term storage and temperature.

The question I don't know the answer to is RCR123 vs. NiMH AA. Not sure about runtime and output. NiMH have 2700 maH @ 1.2v, and RCR123 have 3.7v @ 700-900 mhA.

I decided on size.


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## Marduke (Nov 27, 2008)

snakyjake said:


> The question I don't know the answer to is RCR123 vs. NiMH AA. Not sure about runtime and output. NiMH have 2700 maH @ 1.2v, and RCR123 have 3.7v @ 700-900 mhA.
> 
> I decided on size.



1xNiMH high capacity has more stored energy than 1xRCR123


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## mdocod (Nov 27, 2008)

snakyjake said:


> The question I don't know the answer to is RCR123 vs. NiMH AA. Not sure about runtime and output. NiMH have 2700 maH @ 1.2v, and RCR123 have 3.7v @ 700-900 mhA.



This can be a difficult comparison to make accurately, and it depends heavily on what flashlights are compared, and what qualities you demand from the NIMH cell to match the li-ion cell.

What I mean is, a standard high capacity NIMH AA definitely has more stored energy than any RCR123 available, even when drained rather quickly. However, the cycle life and self-discharge issues that can crop up with a high cap cell, in many ways offset the advantages. 

For the sake of easy comparison, let's compare 3 possible options, each delivering a similar output. For the RCR123, this means ~1A, and for the AA, this means 3 amps (for a 1.2V cell to deliver the same wattage output, it must deliver ~3X the current as a 3.7V cell):

1. High Cap AA: 2.67WH (Sanyo 2700)
2. LSD AA: 2.04WH (eneloop)
3. RCR123: 1.6-2.0WH depending on brand (the TrustFire 880s deliver ~2WH into this load, but are oversized, AWs are properly sized, and deliver ~1.65WH)

So, we see that there are some various tradeoffs to be made to achieve various peaks in performance. To get the LSD performance that comes naturally to li-ion, the AA NIMH cell chosen isn't really much better than the highest performing RCR123s. To get a RCR123 that fits all applications, capacity must be sacrificed further. So it just depends on the situation..

Overall, in this comparison, a single AA LSD even looks better than an RCR123, but there is more to the story.

Since a single RCR123 has a voltage output that very closely matches the needs of a LED, the driver circuit used to drive the LED can operate very efficiently, with inlet and outlet currents very similar. For the sake of comparison, lets call it 94% efficient. For the same output to be achieved from a single 1.2V source, the driver has to operate with a major imbalance, a ton of current on the inlet side, to get the voltage up on the output side. There is a major efficiency loss in this type of setup, for various reasons, one simply the fact that it's a low voltage high current situation on the battery side, which takes a hit from any resistance in the contacts of the light. Boost drive setups that must triple the input voltage will generally operate with ~80-95% efficiency at best. 


So lets compare again, this time with realistic power consumption figures from 2 lights that are going to drive the LED to the same output. Lets call it 3W at the LED. 

For the RCR123 to achieve this, with 94% efficiency at the driver, the power consumption must be 3.2W. 
For the AA to achieve this, with say, 82.5% efficiency at the driver, the power consumption must be 3.64W. 

Here's how the runtime would break down (approximately) in this comparison:
1. High Cap AA: 44 minutes
2. LSD AA: 33.5 minutes
3. RCR123: 31 minutes (AW) - 37.5 minutes (oversized trustfires)

Finding a couple of lights to make this comparison with in the real world might be difficult, but this helps illustrate the differences. 

Generally speaking, there are RCR123 powered lights that are available with more output than AA powered lights. I don't actually know of any 1xAA light on the market from a reputable manufacture that pulls a solid 3 amps from that AA cell to achieve these output levels. So in almost every fair comparison, a 1xAA light will have lower output and longer runtime than a RCR123 powered light. The difference between a 120 lumen high and 200 lumen high isn't all that big of a deal for an EDC, so IMO, just choose the flashlight, and the cell type, that suits your liking the most, and try not to worry too much about which chemistry. LSD AAs and li-ion are both awesome technologies that have their own advantages. 

On advantage for LSD AA over li-ion that is often overlooked, is in critical situations, there is less potential for failure, as a LSD cell has no protection circuit that could malfunction. The other is that you can generally buy 2 or 3 LSD AA NIMH cells for the cost of a single RCR123. 

Eric


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 27, 2008)

Well said mdocod!!!

Sort of exactly why I carry a P2D with a Primary 123 as EDC. It is the best option for THAT light head in a combination of power and size.

It would almost certainly run well on two LSD NimH as well, but then would NOT be EDC size any more (in MY case).

Gonna get to see how a LumaPower Connexion 1AA compares to an L1D head to head. I think I'm going to like the Connexion but time will tell...


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## snakyjake (Nov 27, 2008)

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/member.php?u=11647mdocod, great post! That's exactly what I've been wondering.

The numbers aren't scientific proof, but it will be a good start to bring up some experiments to do.

I enjoy the CR123 because of the size of light. Now I can compare more directly size and runtime.

Thanks! :twothumbs


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## Black Rose (Nov 27, 2008)

Excellent post mdocod!!!!! I saved a copy of that one.



mdocod said:


> The other is that you can generally buy 2 or 3 LSD AA NIMH cells for the cost of a single RCR123.


That is the main issue I have with RCR123 cells, which why I have kept the number of CR123 capable lights I own low.


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## Vincent (Dec 15, 2008)

If a CR123 is 3V and you have 2 of them in lets say a Fenix PD30. Then we look at a LD20 which takes 2 AA batteries at 1.5V each. How can the LD20 give similar outputs on half the available volts, compared to the PD30. It can be any CR123 vs AA, it doesn't really matter.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 15, 2008)

The only fair comparison voltage wise is 2AA against 1CR123.

2AA unless side by side are too long for me to EDC. 

In my old Ford F350 with a flat seat 2AA worked okay. But now in a Ram with bucket seats NO WAY.

I just can't imagine anything bumping my P2D CE Q5 off my belt.

And I don't use a primary up for a couple months at my usage, so it doesn't cost too much to run.

Sure! A 2x123 will smoke it. But the P2D holds it's own!

Oh, and even a 2x123 or 1x18650 is too bulky for my belt.

But the little customized UF 505B rides nicely next to my wallet in the back pocket!


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## Vincent (Dec 15, 2008)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> The only fair comparison voltage wise is 2AA against 1CR123.
> 
> 2AA unless side by side are too long for me to EDC.
> 
> ...




What im saying, atleast from whative read is that 2xCR123 can compete with 2XAA's. in terms of run times and output. Its not a exact comparison and there is some Lumen loss on the AA side, but its comparable.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 15, 2008)

Perhaps. IF we were doing apples to apples.

I have a couple 2AA Crees that don't give a whole bunch away to 2x123 Crees. But the 2x ARE brighter because that is the nature of the beast.

If you sucked on the 2AA to the same brightness level I'm not sure what would happen.

Anyhow for use around the house I'll go with 18650 or NimH AA lights.

But since P2D runs best on a primary that's my EDC.


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## sbyers77 (Feb 11, 2009)

Thanks for the help with the 2xAA vs. 1xCR123 question, it'll help me with my buying decision now that I am finally in the market to buy. :thumbsup:


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## detwolfsdad (Feb 11, 2009)

Hey Ya'll
From my point of view, I can walk into "Ma & Paw Kettles General Store" in back of the beyond, anywhere USA. I know that I can pick up a Coke, a brick of .22lr, a box of .308, and a pack of AA batteries.


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## snakyjake (Feb 11, 2009)

I use rechargeable CR123's, and typically bring my battery charger. And if I know I'm going far out, I carry spare batteries and a backup light.

But to me the most important factors are UI, output, ergonomics. And since I use rechargeables, I'm not looking to sacrifice the above requirements for maximum runtime by a few minutes.


If all else is close to equal about the light, I choose on size, weight, pocketability, and how it fits in my hand. I like the compact, feel, and pocketability length of a CR123 light.

Jake


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## paintballdad (Feb 11, 2009)

** 
*IT' ALIVE.........*
** 
This thread isn't dead yet......


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## was.lost.but.now.found (Feb 11, 2009)

paintballdad said:


> *IT' ALIVE.........*
> 
> This thread isn't dead yet......


 
Can I take my shot? 

It depends on your rate of discharge. According to SilverFox:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/67078
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/79302
1 eneloop has more watt hours at a 2A discharge that 1 typical CR123 (all but five in the test). Interestingly, the eneloop help its own al the way up to an 8A discharge. I think he mentioned he couldn't even do a test above 2A for the CR123 because they were heating up so much.


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## Hitthespot (Feb 11, 2009)

detwolfsdad said:


> Hey Ya'll
> From my point of view, I can walk into "Ma & Paw Kettles General Store" in back of the beyond, anywhere USA. I know that I can pick up a Coke, a brick of .22lr, a box of .308, and a pack of AA batteries.


 
I'd bet on the 30-06 but I don't know for sure about the 308? lol

Bill


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 11, 2009)

Hitthespot said:


> I'd bet on the 30-06 but I don't know for sure about the 308? lol
> 
> Bill



Yeah, I'm not sure about finding 308 ammo, but 30-06 and 270 would probably be available.

Bill


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## paintballdad (Feb 11, 2009)

detwolfsdad said:


> Hey Ya'll
> From my point of view, I can walk into "Ma & Paw Kettles General Store" in back of the beyond, anywhere USA. I know that I can pick up a Coke, a brick of .22lr, a box of .308, and a pack of AA batteries.


 
Yeah, and those AA's have been sitting there for so long that they probably don't have much left in them! :devil:


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## detwolfsdad (Feb 11, 2009)

paintballdad said:


> Yeah, and those AA's have been sitting there for so long that they probably don't have much left in them! :devil:




That may be true, but they will have more life than the cr123's they don't sell.  I've never had a problem with .308.


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## was.lost.but.now.found (Feb 12, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure about finding 308 ammo, but 30-06 and 270 would probably be available.
> 
> Bill


 
Your guaranteed ammo at any store, anytime, is going to be 30-30. Us young-ins often forget it ruled for decades, and in many people's eyes still does.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 12, 2009)

:twothumbs:twothumbs

Bill


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## BigHonu (Feb 12, 2009)

kaichu dento said:


> Case in point was a point by another poster a while back where his dad paid about $36 for a single CR123!



But what would he have paid for a more common format? 

I know around here that when there is a hurricane approaching, or power outages, Ds Cs and AAs are the first to go.


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## snakyjake (Feb 12, 2009)

BigHonu said:


> I know around here that when there is a hurricane approaching, or power outages, Ds Cs and AAs are the first to go.



Rechargeables! You can recharge from a generator, automobile, solar charger. Take the AA's from a TV remote. Have a spare package of AA/CR123.

For the common person, I think the only difference to consider is form factor.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 12, 2009)

No, for the "common" person the price of 123s means they are not likely to have or use a 123 light.

There are some mighty good AA lights these days!!!


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## paintballdad (Feb 12, 2009)

When SHTF, it won't matter if you need AAA, AA, C, D, 9V, 30-30, 30-06, 308 or whatever else your looking for. You are going to be out of luck. 

That's why you should always stock up on food, water, batteries, ammo and toilet paper .


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## snakyjake (Feb 12, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> No, for the "common" person the price of 123s means they are not likely to have or use a 123 light.



You can buy CR123 batteries for < $1.
You can buy RCR123 batteries for $7

I don't see cost being a deciding factor.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 12, 2009)

snakyjake said:


> You can buy CR123 batteries for < $1.
> You can buy RCR123 batteries for $7
> 
> I don't see cost being a deciding factor.



You or I can easily buy good 123s for maybe 1.25 - 1.50 ea.

Joe average hasn't a clue and sees them for 3-8 ea.

You are thinking as a flashaholic. I am low budget and see things from Joe Averages perspective.


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## was.lost.but.now.found (Feb 13, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> You are thinking as a flashaholic. I am low budget and see things from Joe Averages perspective.


 
+1


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## Grog (Feb 15, 2009)

123s win if you need the smallest (yet very bright) light. Look at the lengths of the 2x123 VS 2xAA lights. AAs can win on many other factors though....


Guess it depends if size matters to you


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## ian_W (Aug 5, 2011)

Grog said:


> 123s win if you need the smallest (yet very bright) light. Look at the lengths of the 2x123 VS 2xAA lights. AAs can win on many other factors though....
> 
> 
> Guess it depends if size matters to you



I think the key is that for most people you can walk into a store and buy a pack of 4 aaa or aa's even in remote tiny town little stores. You need CR123's and you're talking large store and be lucky, especially outside the USA, looking at a large (Sainsbury's) super market locally, no CR123's, 30 different choices for AA or AAA.

You've got a $300 torch, with a flat battery, no use if you can't get a replacement battery when you want it.


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## flatline (Aug 5, 2011)

ian_W said:


> I think the key is that for most people you can walk into a store and buy a pack of 4 aaa or aa's even in remote tiny town little stores. You need CR123's and you're talking large store and be lucky, especially outside the USA, looking at a large (Sainsbury's) super market locally, no CR123's, 30 different choices for AA or AAA.
> 
> You've got a $300 torch, with a flat battery, no use if you can't get a replacement battery when you want it.


 
This is exactly why my travel light is my Quark AA and not my HDS Clicky even though both of them can easily go a month of regular use on a single cell. If TSHTF while way from home, the last thing I need is the additional worry about finding replacement CR123 cells.

--flatline


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## aimxplode (Aug 5, 2011)

ian_W said:


> I think the key is that for most people you can walk into a store and buy a pack of 4 aaa or aa's even in remote tiny town little stores. You need CR123's and you're talking large store and be lucky, especially outside the USA, looking at a large (Sainsbury's) super market locally, no CR123's, 30 different choices for AA or AAA.
> 
> You've got a $300 torch, with a flat battery, no use if you can't get a replacement battery when you want it.



That's why you need an RRT-0 . Use the CR123 until its dead, put on the AA extender if more CR123's are no where to be found.


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## Ryan_T (Aug 7, 2011)

I just jumped on the CR123 boat since the light I wanted uses it. It comes in AA variety, but I prefer the form factor of the CR123 model, so there we go.


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## Throc (Aug 9, 2011)

I tend to stick to AA lights because most of my other electronics use AA. I can't stand carrying multiple types of batteries everywhere. I have some CR123 lights but they are regulated to household duty and rarely make it out anywhere else.


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## Napalm (Aug 9, 2011)

paintballdad said:


> Sig vs Glock



A .50 known to sometimes blow in your face vs. a reliable 9mm.

Some people will still go for the big bangs.

Nap.


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