# New Nichia LED 4 Times Brighter



## Bearcat (Nov 18, 2007)

I read something awhile back about a new Nichia 5mm led that has just come out that is twice as bright as their 2x bright LED use to be. That's 4 times brighter than their old led and is nearly as efficient as a Cree. 

I can't find where I read this information, was I just dreaming?:shrug:


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## Gunner12 (Nov 18, 2007)

I think you are referring to the Nichia DS, currently used in the Arc AAA Premium.


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## Bearcat (Nov 18, 2007)

Gunner12 said:


> I think you are referring to the Nichia DS, currently used in the Arc AAA Premium.


 
Thanks, but that's not where I read it. But holy cow, $15 more for a Nichia DS LED than a Nichia CS LED. WOW!!!!!!


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## jzmtl (Nov 18, 2007)

There must be some profit margin in there.


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## Bearcat (Nov 18, 2007)

I wonder if Fenix will ever put a Nichia DS in their EO Dart?:twothumbs


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 18, 2007)

I measured an intensity of *89,500*mcd from the single LED in my Arc-AAA-P DS.  It uses a Nichia NSPW500DS LED.
The older Arc-AAA-LE (later called the PE) from early-June 2003 measured 20,800mcd.
So the Nichia DS white LED is definitely very bright.


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## rizky_p (Nov 19, 2007)

do you know where we can order it? sounds really fun for replacing standar keychain light.


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## Marduke (Nov 19, 2007)

rizky_p said:


> do you know where we can order it? sounds really fun for replacing standar keychain light.



Order what, the Arc light? Their website..... Try to Google "arc flashlight" :shakehead

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=34


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## Bearcat (Nov 19, 2007)

I'm not sure what the other guy was asking, but I would like to know where I can purchase some Nichia NSPW500ds or NSPW500GS-K1 LEDS at a reasonable price to upgrade my old Photon Freedoms.


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## Fallingwater (Nov 19, 2007)

I don't think they are easily available. Last time I heard, Photon had absorbed all the available stock for the production of the Rex.

I just bought a bunch of Jeleds on eBay. Rated at 55cd, so not nearly efficient as the DS' 89, but impressive nonetheless. I can't wait to see what can be done with them in fauxtons, keychains and 8/12-LED flashlights.


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## Avatar28 (Nov 19, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> I don't think they are easily available. Last time I heard, Photon had absorbed all the available stock for the production of the Rex.
> 
> I just bought a bunch of Jeleds on eBay. Rated at 55cd, so not nearly efficient as the DS' 89, but impressive nonetheless. I can't wait to see what can be done with them in fauxtons, keychains and 8/12-LED flashlights.



Apparently it's not doing them much good, they still can't get the darned things out the door.


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## 2xTrinity (Nov 19, 2007)

> I just bought a bunch of Jeleds on eBay. Rated at 55cd, so not nearly efficient as the DS' 89, but impressive nonetheless. I can't wait to see what can be done with them in fauxtons, keychains and 8/12-LED flashlights.


It's not possible to judge efficiency based on beam intensity (cd) without also knowing the beam angle into which that intensity is projected, and integrating to find lumens. 

My arbitrary guess is that the new LED is both somewhat more efficient, and somewhat narrower beam-angle than the Jeled, but that the difference isn't 100% due to efficiency.


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## WeLight (Nov 19, 2007)

DS from Nichia are available, how many do you need


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## Canuke (Nov 19, 2007)

The_LED_Museum said:


> I measured an intensity of *89,500*mcd from the single LED in my Arc-AAA-P DS.  It uses a Nichia NSPW500DS LED.
> The older Arc-AAA-LE (later called the PE) from early-June 2003 measured 20,800mcd.
> So the Nichia DS white LED is definitely very bright.



Whoa... that's a lot of difference.

When I first noticed the DS on the Nichia order page, I checked the datasheet, and I had the impression they were perhaps only 20-30% brighter at 20mA than the CS. That was about six months ago. Have they improved since then? Or is that 2003 Arc just that much older?

Craig, did you try measuring the current/voltage between the two to see where that difference comes from?

It would be interesting to see how the DS compares with the original Lux I stars in luminous output, driven at spec.

I've got quite a few places I'd like to swap in some of these, including a Christmas doodad which was clearly designed for LED, but they cheaped out and put an incandescent bulb in -- one that was even shaped like an LED on purpose. I should have heeded my misgivings when the package said "white" but I couldn't see any yellow phosphor.


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## Bearcat (Nov 19, 2007)

WeLight said:


> DS from Nichia are available, how many do you need


 
How much?


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## IsaacHayes (Nov 19, 2007)

2003 Arc would be Nichia BS LED.

I'm a bit confused what the Nichia GS is over the DS. But it does show brighter just not a whole ton.


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## LED-FX (Nov 19, 2007)

Without the possible Arc overdrive, Nichia put Rank W DS at 44cd at 20mA

http://www.nichia.com/specification/led_lamp/NSPW500DS-E.pdf

Online only offering as high as CS 18cd 80 bucks a hundred:

http://store.nichia.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=10

Always wondered what customers click the lowest available brightness bin 

Cheers
Adam


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## Bearcat (Nov 25, 2007)

I wonder if the new Nichia DS LED would be better in the Fenix EO than in the Arc-P DS, since the EO has a better run-time and they both would be about the same brightness?:thinking:


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## Marduke (Nov 25, 2007)

Bearcat said:


> I wonder if the new Nichia DS LED would be better in the Fenix EO than in the Arc-P DS, since the EO has a better run-time and they both would be about the same brightness?:thinking:



Probably, since the E0 has better regulation than the Arc CS. The Arc starts out brighter, but the E0 is brighter for most of the runtime. I suspect that it won't be longer than a few more months before they upgrade to a DS or better. Personally, my LOD Q4 has already spoiled me and I probably won't buy an upgraded E0.


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## Bearcat (Nov 26, 2007)

I've been putting off getting LOD-CE, because I HATE those flash and SOS modes. I just recently purchased a EO and I'm very happy with it, but I would be even more happy if it was just a little bit brighter with the same long run-time. I really think that a EO-DS would be better than the Arc DS.


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## laserblue (Nov 26, 2007)

44 Candelas at 20mA thats great. the best 5mm led i got here is only 5000 mcd


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## Bearcat (Nov 30, 2007)

Marduke said:


> Probably, since the E0 has better regulation than the Arc CS. The Arc starts out brighter, but the E0 is brighter for most of the runtime. I suspect that it won't be longer than a few more months before they upgrade to a DS or better. Personally, my LOD Q4 has already spoiled me and I probably won't buy an upgraded E0.


 
Every-time I'm about to take the leap and get a LOD Q4, I come to my senses just thinking about having to scroll through all those modes just to get to low changes my mind. If it would just remember the "low" mode, I would be all over the LOD Q4.

I can't wait to someone mods an EO with a DS LED and post some beam shots.


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## WadeF (Dec 2, 2007)

On the LOD-CE Q4 you start on medium, twist off, twist on and you're in low. Only 1 mode to skip over.


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## Bearcat (Dec 2, 2007)

WadeF said:


> On the LOD-CE Q4 you start on medium, twist off, twist on and you're in low. Only 1 mode to skip over.


 
Yeah, that makes a lot more sense than the memory modes on my Jetbeam and Rexlight. I wished that the LOD started out in low though, but it's is a whole lot better than I first thought.


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## WeLight (Dec 4, 2007)

I can get some of these if there is any interest


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## Bearcat (Dec 4, 2007)

WeLight said:


> I can get some of these if there is any interest


 
Tell me more.


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## chimo (Dec 4, 2007)

WeLight said:


> I can get some of these if there is any interest



There is interest. I would like 10-20 if you can get decent bins.

Others have also expressed interest.


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## WeLight (Dec 5, 2007)

I have several 000 pcs kicking around here of the V bin, min 22000mcd, max 31000 mcd
spectacular led

min 100 pcs at USD0.44 ea


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## Bearcat (Dec 5, 2007)

WeLight said:


> I have several 000 pcs kicking around here of the V bin, min 22000mcd, max 31000 mcd
> spectacular led
> 
> min 100 pcs at USD0.44 ea


 
How do these compare to the Nichia DS LEDs that Arc is putting in their new AAA lights?


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## chimo (Dec 5, 2007)

Bearcat said:


> How do these compare to the Nichia DS LEDs that Arc is putting in their new AAA lights?




*Probably* the same. I don't know if Nichia is even shipping any W bins (31000-44000mcd) yet.


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## chimo (Dec 5, 2007)

I really don't need a hundred - any one want to split a hundred with me?


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## danfrum (Dec 6, 2007)

I'm interested in splitting an order. I'm confused though what would we be buying DS in a V bin?

I'm looking to replace the 5mm LEDs in my APEX pro. From what I've gathered, they are Nichia CS and I wonder if replacing them with these DS models will gain much output?


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## chimo (Dec 6, 2007)

danfrum said:


> I'm interested in splitting an order. I'm confused though what would we be buying DS in a V bin?
> 
> I'm looking to replace the 5mm LEDs in my APEX pro. From what I've gathered, they are Nichia CS and I wonder if replacing them with these DS models will gain much output?



I have a PM to WeLight - am awaiting a response. I will PM you when I get the details.


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## Bearcat (Dec 6, 2007)

I want a few too.


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## regulator (Dec 6, 2007)

I would be willing to purchase a few (10-20). Let me know.


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## greenLED (Dec 6, 2007)

The_LED_Museum said:


> I measured an intensity of *89,500*mcd from the single LED in my Arc-AAA-P DS.


Anybody else remember when anything over 12000 mcd was *really* bright? :laughing:


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## regulator (Dec 6, 2007)

I remember the new "bright" Nichia being 5600mcd.


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## chimo (Dec 7, 2007)

I just ordered 100 from Mark. I will probably keep somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 and sell the rest. Cheers,

Paul

I guess I'll be modding my ArcAAAs. BS-CS-DS


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## Bearcat (Dec 7, 2007)

chimo said:


> I just ordered 100 from Mark. I will probably keep somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 and sell the rest. Cheers,
> 
> Paul
> 
> I guess I'll be modding my ArcAAAs. BS-CS-DS


 
Are you gonna share a few?


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## chimo (Dec 7, 2007)

Bearcat said:


> Are you gonna share a few?



Yes but I better take it over to the Marketplace.


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## Bearcat (Dec 7, 2007)

chimo said:


> Yes but I better take it over to the Marketplace.


 
OK, precisely which location and when are going to post them?


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## danfrum (Dec 7, 2007)

Yes please let us know. I'd like to buy 20.


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## eebowler (Dec 10, 2007)

Can anyone tell me the difference between the DS and GS LEDs? What does 20*3 mean?

Edit: I've looked at the pdf's and can't see the difference.


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## ARC mania (Dec 10, 2007)

The NSPW500GS-K1 is the 5mm LED that people are asking about on this thread. 20*3 = 3 dies in one package (20ma x 3). These LED's are rare and only sold in Japan. Got a whole stash of em in a "W" bin in brightness and if you want I can post the picture of the anti static bag they come in These LED's are roughly 2 to 2.5 times brighter than the DS series.

ARC mania


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## Bearcat (Dec 10, 2007)

ARC mania said:


> The NSPW500GS-K1 is the 5mm LED that people are asking about on this thread. 20*3 = 3 dies in one package (20ma x 3). These LED's are rare and only sold in Japan. Got a whole stash of em in a "W" bin in brightness and if you want I can post the picture of the anti static bag they come in These LED's are roughly 2 to 2.5 times brighter than the DS series.
> 
> ARC mania


 
Are you going to put one of those bad boys in a Fenix EO?


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## eebowler (Dec 11, 2007)

ARC_mania, thank you! :thumbsup



ARC_mania said:


> These LED's are roughly 2 to 2.5 times brighter than the DS series.



I believe you but, am still confused. If they both have a beam angle (direction charecteristic) of 15 degrees, shouldn't the GS-K1 LED (Rank V 22000-31000mcd) be producing a higher mcd value than the DS LED (Rank V 22cd-31cd)?
Am I interpreting something wrong?

GS-K1 pdf
DS pdf

Thanks.


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## ARC mania (Dec 11, 2007)

OK, this ought to tickle you're fancy.

ARC mania


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## VidPro (Dec 11, 2007)

eebowler said:


> Am I interpreting something wrong?
> 
> GS-K1 pdf
> DS pdf
> ...


 
thanks for providing links to the spec sheets, they look like CLONES. i cant find anything in the spec sheet in the one different from the other, unless you get a different "ranking" ohhh fry my brain, i hate spec sheets.

i put both PDFs on seperate "Tabs" in a tabbed browser, and jumped between them, to find magic differences, but it just looks like the usual cut and paste data sheet, just slop the same info from the other data sheets in, and change anything that changes.
the "angle" on both of them looks very tight.

better to see what the users say, when they are driven exactally the same way, with hopefully same hours of runtime parts. If its 2X as bright as the burnt out one in thier overdriven flashlight , i'm not sure if that is different


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## ARC mania (Dec 11, 2007)

eebowler said:


> ARC_mania, thank you! :thumbsup
> 
> I believe you but, am still confused. If they both have a beam angle (direction charecteristic) of 15 degrees, shouldn't the GS-K1 LED (Rank V 22000-31000mcd) be producing a higher mcd value than the DS LED (Rank V 22cd-31cd)?
> Am I interpreting something wrong?
> ...



Seems like the manufacturer has made an honest mistake regarding the specs. Using common sense here, its obvious that the three dies in the NSPW500GS-K1 LED has more surface area producing light compared to the single die in the NSPW500DS at the same drive current. I have tested the GS-K1 LED at a drive current of 13ma and it produced roughly 4 lumens of light. Sorry I don't have proof on paper as I acquired these numbers by using a light meter and comparing with a 1 x AAA flashlight which uses the old NSPW500BS series and rated at 3 lumens at a drive current of 50ma by the manufacturer. Just trying to keep things simple.

Heres the difference. NSPW500DS on the right. The flashlight on the left uses the NSPW500GS-K1 (W rank in brightness) along with a special converter that I developed. Enjoy.


























ARC mania


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## regulator (Dec 11, 2007)

So does this GS put out a lot more light than the DS driven at the same level? What is the drive level of your new converter - looks good. 

This LED may be great in a tiny light like an ARC. I just recieved a Photon ReX using 4 of the DS LED's and the thing put out a huge amount of light for such a small light and only 5mm LED's. Using one of the GS LED's in a AAA light would be pretty cool.


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## ARC mania (Dec 12, 2007)

regulator said:


> So does this GS put out a lot more light than the DS driven at the same level? What is the drive level of your new converter - looks good.
> 
> This LED may be great in a tiny light like an ARC. I just recieved a Photon ReX using 4 of the DS LED's and the thing put out a huge amount of light for such a small light and only 5mm LED's. Using one of the GS LED's in a AAA light would be pretty cool.



regulater: Yes, there is more surface area producing light in the GS-K1 compared to the DS series. The output current of the converter shown in the picture can be set from 13ma to 100ma. 

Here are some comparasion photos of the GS-K1 LED being driven at 13ma from a single LR44 battery. I'd say its pretty bright compared to a Sonic flashlight running 1 x AAA. 





















ARC mania


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## ViReN (Dec 12, 2007)

ARC mania said:


> <SNIP>
> Heres the difference. NSPW500DS on the right. The flashlight on the left uses the NSPW500GS-K1 (W rank in brightness) along with a special converter that I developed. Enjoy.
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry for my ignorance, but is it a white or blue LED?


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## ARC mania (Dec 12, 2007)

Viren: My camera isn't one of the best and the color is off at times. The color of the beam is white but in the photo appears more blu-ish. Porbably the b2 tint has something to do with it as well.

ARC mania


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## ViReN (Dec 12, 2007)

ARC mania said:


> Viren: My camera isn't one of the best and the color is off at times. The color of the beam is white but in the photo appears more blu-ish. Porbably the b2 tint has something to do with it as well.
> 
> ARC mania



Ah  I see.... Perhaps an C0 Tint would be nice yellow


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## regulator (Dec 12, 2007)

I would love one of these in a UK 2AAA light. The 2AAA side by side format is still very easy for pocket carry and has double the runtime. This format is easier to pocket carry than a single AA IMO.

Can the converter work off of 2 AAA or only 1.5 volts? The converter and LED make a very interesting combo. I really like lights that are small, offer decent lumens, AND runtime - a nice "balance" for EDC.


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## Brlux (Dec 13, 2007)

Why does it look like their is an inductor mounted between the legs of the LED? Did you add that or are they shipped that way?

Edit: Is that your regulator? How the heck did you get it so small? Impressive.


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## ARC mania (Dec 14, 2007)

Brlux: Yes, thats an inductor mounted on the leg of the 5mm LED. I soldered that on there. There is a driver on the otherside which can not be seen. The converter is made up of only three parts. Actually, I could have used a smaller inductor but none on hand so I had to make do with what I had. The inductor in the picture measures 3 mm in width. With a smaller inductor, you can stuff the converter into a 2mm circle while maintaining the same efficiency.

ARC mania


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## Tronic (Dec 14, 2007)

chimo said:


> I really don't need a hundred - any one want to split a hundred with me?


Can you post a link to the sale on the CPFMP?
I`m interested in 10-20 pcs.


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## Bearcat (Dec 14, 2007)

Tronic said:


> Can you post a link to the sale on the CPFMP?
> I`m interested in 10-20 pcs.


 
Same here.


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## chimo (Dec 14, 2007)

I have ordered a hundred of these. When they get here, I will keep around 30 and sell the rest in lots of 10 or 20 so more people can get a chance to get some. I will post a link in this thread to a thread in the marketplace after I get them (remember that it's a busy mail season). First dibs will be given to those who have already expressed interest. 

Paul


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## PhotonWrangler (Dec 14, 2007)

I'm interested in obtaining a few of these if there are any left after meeting your previous committments.


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## nanoWatt (Dec 14, 2007)

How does that compare with the Cree Q5? I don't know it's mcd measurements, only that it goes up to 225 lumens.



The_LED_Museum said:


> I measured an intensity of *89,500*mcd from the single LED in my Arc-AAA-P DS.  It uses a Nichia NSPW500DS LED.
> The older Arc-AAA-LE (later called the PE) from early-June 2003 measured 20,800mcd.
> So the Nichia DS white LED is definitely very bright.


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## Bearcat (Dec 14, 2007)

chimo said:


> I have ordered a hundred of these. When they get here, I will keep around 30 and sell the rest in lots of 10 or 20 so more people can get a chance to get some. I will post a link in this thread to a thread in the marketplace after I get them (remember that it's a busy mail season). First dibs will be given to those who have already expressed interest.
> 
> Paul


 
"My same here" means I want 10.

Thanks for doing this.:thumbsup:


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## Dorky1 (Dec 14, 2007)

:wave: I'll take 10, if you have enough leftovers. :thumbsup:


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## moon lander (Dec 15, 2007)

im interested in 10 if you have any left.


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## paulr (Dec 15, 2007)

Here's a store in Germany that claims to have GS available at 1.79 euro (a little over 2 usd) per led:

http://www.led-shop24.de/leds-5mm/weisse-leds/weisse-led-5mm-44000mcd-15-nichia-nspw500gs-b2w.htm

These folks in Australia offer the DS for 1.50 AUD (about 1.30 USD):
http://www.lazer.com.au/leds.shtml

No idea what the international shipping situation would be with either of those stores. I found them by googling. Main conclusion is that these leds while still scarce are starting to show up. They will probably be at store.nichia.com before all that long.


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## Unforgiven (Dec 15, 2007)

This is the LED tech area. Lets keep sales and interest threads in the appropriate areas. 


Thank you


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