# FatFlex Prototype



## georges80 (Mar 24, 2005)

*MaxFlex Prototype (production boards NOW available)*

17 Oct 2006 update:

I guess I should clarify that the production boards are available (and have been for a week or so...)
------------------------------------------
23 Sept 2006 Update:

MaxFlex drivers should be available for shipping in the first week of Oct.
Drivers will be $30 each.

Firmware now includes both the UIP and UIF (use can reconfigure) that some of you are familiar with from the nFlex drivers.

Operating voltage is 2.7V - 20V.

MaxFlex is a current regulating boost driver (steps up).

Output voltage can drive up to 24V and output open circuit protected.

Max output current can be user configured (350/500/700/1000/1200/1400mA)

User configurable sleep mode, force level.

User configurable low voltage protection and warning.

More info can be found in the MaxFlex sections of www.taskled.com.

Note, the original description below was based on a Fatman core (12V in, 16v out max). MaxFlex is based on a different switcher IC, hence the new 20V in, 24V out max specs.

george.

--------------------------------------------
FatFlex - what you get when you mate a Fatman with an nFlex:

Looks like a Fatman from the top (far left shows the momentary action switch, behind you can see a LuxV lit at the dim level):






Doesn't look like a Fatman from below (the blue wire mess is just to access the programming pins of the uC on the prototype) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif





At this point the firmware is 100% nFlex, but I'm thinking of rolling some of the UI1 LionHeart features into the firmware to make it more 'flashlight' friendly vs fixed lighting friendly.

Anyhow, lots more testing to do, but I figured some of you would be interested to see what the next driver I'll most likely be taking to production looks like. Probably a month or so off in the future at this stage.

george.


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## NITEFISH (Mar 24, 2005)

Been waiting for this for a while. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif
Just let me know when to send Paypal. 
Nice work George,
Daryl


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## georges80 (Mar 24, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*NITEFISH said:*
Been waiting for this for a while. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif
Just let me know when to send Paypal. 
Nice work George,
Daryl 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I'm quite pleased how quickly it came up. Basically I just took the nFlex code and downloaded it and FatFlex came to life fully operational - at least the tests I've done so far. It took longer to wire the programming header on... On the production PCBs I'll have some pads to allow a bed of nails to come down and make contact with the appropriate programming pins.

I've also implemented power management, so when you turn off FatFlex via the momentary switch, it powers down the Fatman switcher core completely so the measured draw is only about 30uA.

george.


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## modamag (Mar 24, 2005)

Finally our prayers have been answered. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif
Thanx George for another break-thru. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif
Second in line for signup list (behind Daryl).
Where should we send the cash/paypal/money order.


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## CroMAGnet (Mar 24, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif MEtooooo /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Icarus (Mar 24, 2005)

This seems to be what I was hoping you would announce one day, the successor of the nFlex driver!
The circular pcb is certainly an improvement when using this driver in a flashlight. 
I'm very curious about the new features that will be implemented. 
Great work George!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif


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## greenLED (Mar 24, 2005)

Awzum! That looks like the size of a quarter! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
One more project I'll definitely try (gotta try the nFlex first).


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## cy (Mar 24, 2005)

I'd like one too, what's the dia of this board?


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## MrMimizu (Mar 24, 2005)

Maybe it's my lack of sleep but does this mean it's a boost circuit but with the multilevel options of an nflex? I just want to make sure I'm reading this right.
2nd question. Would I be able to power multiple leds with this? I'm looking to build a small lantern with 3-4 lux III.


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## Kiessling (Mar 24, 2005)

What wizardry is it capable of?
And dimensions would be nice, too!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
bernie


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## georges80 (Mar 24, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*cy said:*
I'd like one too, what's the dia of this board? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Same as fatman just a little thicker due to components on the backside.

Operating specs should be similar as Fatman (other than a min 3V input rather than 2.7V). UI features are currently the same as nFlex, but I'm thinking of making it more similar to UI1 of the LionHeart.

This was really a sneek peek at what's in the pipeline. I need to run FatFlex through its paces before sending it off for a production PCB run. Then I need to order parts and assemble units - so about 1 month away if everything goes reasonably smoothly.

george.


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## PANZERWOLF (Mar 24, 2005)

that's DA THING dude /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
the final solution is nigh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif 
PayPay is cocked and loaded /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
this will be a long month, argh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif
i've been looking for something like this, since i discovered CPF /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


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## cgpeanut (Mar 24, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif George /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## jaids (Mar 24, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*georges80 said:*
other than a min 3V input rather than 2.7V 

[/ QUOTE ]
Any chance of a lower V input on a luxeon III?


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## jtice (Mar 24, 2005)

Top notch excellent work as ussual George !!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

This is gonna be great.
I LOVE using Fatmans in mags, with a pot on the side, but I must admit, the pot sticking out can be alittle akward at times.
This is going to make for some really clean mods !!!

If it has the nflex features, I will love it.

cant wait /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

~John


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## Zman (Mar 24, 2005)

Lionheart UI?
Can anyone say 5W lionheart clone? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## MR Bulk (Mar 24, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Except I yam de Man from - Lilliput!


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## wasabe64 (Mar 24, 2005)

Wow! I 've been hoping for this one to come along.

Great work George! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


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## Zman (Mar 24, 2005)

Does that mean....5W LionCub????????


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## Sway (Mar 25, 2005)

Wonderful news George I can't wait to try out an Fflex this really opens up a lot of combinations with one Li-Ion or 3 NiMh cells in a Mag mod just one switch to control the on off and brightness /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif

Later
Kelly


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## georges80 (Mar 25, 2005)

As I originally stated, the firmware in FatFlex is currently 100% nFlex. I am thinking to model the user interface on the UI1 of the Lionheart (that would be lockout, the menu scheme, force levels and autosleep). I won't offer UI0 - mainly because I need the code space for another feature that I want to implement...

I'm open to comments/suggestions on which interface would be preferred - nFlex or UI1 of the Lionheart.

george.


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## cy (Mar 25, 2005)

much prefer Lionheart interface to Nflex


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## idleprocess (Mar 25, 2005)

I'm quite fond of UI1 on the LionHeart.


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## Christoph (Mar 25, 2005)

Will this be a buck/boost configuration?
I like the UI1 
Chris /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif


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## georges80 (Mar 25, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Christoph said:*
Will this be a buck/boost configuration?
I like the UI1 
Chris /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Boost - Fatman is a Boost converter and thus FatFlex will be as well. See the link previous in this thread to the specs of Fatman.

UI1 looks popular right now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

george.


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## Christoph (Mar 25, 2005)

I was just wondering because n flex is a down.
Chris


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## sithjedi333 (Mar 25, 2005)

Will there be such a thing as a nFlex with the LH interface?


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## georges80 (Mar 25, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*sithjedi333 said:*
Will there be such a thing as a nFlex with the LH interface? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No reason that there couldn't be. 

In fact, given that FatFlex and nFlex from a uC interface are identical, once the LH UI1 code is running on FatFlex there's no reason I can't just download it into the nFlex boards....

Hence the reason for asking if folk would prefer the UI1 LH interface or the nFlex style interface.

george.


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## Phylor (Mar 25, 2005)

If the minimum voltage is 3v, then will a single CR123A light be possible? What will the circuit do when the voltage sags below 3v under load? A dimmable single cell CR123A LuxIII light would great!


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## NITEFISH (Mar 25, 2005)

I prefer the nflex interface. I guess Im just used to it in my mag mods.


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## Kiu (Mar 25, 2005)

I much much perfer the LH's UI1. This will become my dream modding board.
Will there be also 64 brightness level? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
Cant wait for it! 
george, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


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## wallyrulz (Mar 25, 2005)

Version 2 of the LH interface is AWESOME. It would be great to have it available for all sorts of stuff.


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## AuroraLite (Mar 26, 2005)

George!

This is great!! Can't hardly imagine this board used alongside with the new upcoming lux this year! Paypal ready, pm me anytime! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## andrewwynn (Mar 26, 2005)

the only 'problem' for lack of a better word i've had with fatman is that since it's a boost driver it really wants 2 series emitters if you want to dim fully if using more than 3V.. but a 3lux 6V mag would probably be an awesome use for this device. I like the 'instant access' of dim using a pot, but it leads to other complexities like water intrusion and ugly problems like that. 

I would definitely be able to find a home for FatFlex.

-awr


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## Burnt_Retinas (Mar 27, 2005)

George,

If this does what I think it will do then it's probably what I've waited a very long time for.

This should be the answer to many modders needs, including mine /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You really turn out some brilliant mod circuits, great work.

Chris


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## mobile1 (Mar 27, 2005)

Beautiful - good to see some pics and info. I am currently looking for some small momentary IP67 sealed momentary pushbutton switches. Then change my gattling design to add your driver and a switch. I have ordered a sample switch (in Europe) but it hasnt arrived yet.


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## Icarus (Mar 27, 2005)

George, will the FatFlex be capable to drive 4 LuxIII's at 1A?


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## georges80 (Mar 27, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*icarus said:*
George, will the FatFlex be capable to drive 4 LuxIII's at 1A? 

[/ QUOTE ]

FatFlex has the same drive specs as Fatman. So, no, 4 Lux3's at 1A is too many Watts, sorry.

george.


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## idleprocess (Mar 27, 2005)

Upgrade that switcher chip to 5A, then it will _really_ sell!


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## Halibut (May 9, 2005)

Any updates for us, George? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Icarus (May 14, 2005)

Yes George, any updates? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## georges80 (May 14, 2005)

Fatflex was pushed down the 'priority' list due to other work. I hope to get some time within the next couple of weeks to finish up the testing. It had one 'feature' that I now have a good idea of how to fix. If that pans out, then production boards could be in hand by mid June.

george.


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## wquiles (May 14, 2005)

Sign me up for these - I am ready to buy at least two of these Fatflex beauties /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Will


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## Darell (May 14, 2005)

I'm struggling to keep up with all the latest goings on, here!

If this will primarily be used in a flashlight, then UI1 is for sure the answer here. As far as I'm concerned, the nFlex code is really aimed at fixed lighting - where it works great.


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## mobile1 (May 14, 2005)

Well I take 3 of those... have a couple of mods that are just waiting for that board...


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## Neg2LED (May 15, 2005)

LH UI1 is good idea!

i would LOVE one of these boards. Finally, i will be able to build my CopperTubeLite with the functions i want!

neg


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## Biggimo1 (Jul 29, 2005)

So whats going on with this board? I have seen nothing about it on the Task Led site. I want one or eight of them. This looks like a great caving headlamp board. 

I used nFlex on my last headlight and really liked the momentary switch control. and now I have some waterproof ones to play with /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif.


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## georges80 (Jul 29, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Biggimo1 said:*
So whats going on with this board? I have seen nothing about it on the Task Led site. I want one or eight of them. This looks like a great caving headlamp board. 

I used nFlex on my last headlight and really liked the momentary switch control. and now I have some waterproof ones to play with /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Psychic eh? I JUST (no kidding) finished assembling a new protopcb (I'll post photos later today). I also JUST (lunchtime) bought a programming clip to allow me to download the firmware without needing a header on the board etc. So, I am working on it and it will have the new firmware (like I just posted on the UI nFlex thread on this same forum).

george.


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## georges80 (Jul 29, 2005)

Ok, latest assembled pcb proto of fatflex.

Top view:






Bottom view:





Next I have to download the firmware (new UI1 style - operating features/manual will be very similar to nFlex UI1 manual - of course FatFlex is Fatman based - so it is a BOOST converter so ignore the 'electrical specs' of the nFlex UI1 manual.

Then testing and beatings commence /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. So, shouldn't be too long before I can commit to a production PCB run.

george.


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## wquiles (Jul 29, 2005)

Excellent job George - thanks for the update /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Will


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## Neg2LED (Jul 29, 2005)

hmmmm.... nFlex²? Fatman²? Fat²?

F²?

just a few interesting names....

also, 

MESA WANTY!

i would like one...

neg


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## NITEFISH (Jul 29, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif


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## mobile1 (Jul 29, 2005)

very nice - good to see that you are maaking progress. Any ideas of the diameter this driver will have?

If there is a possibility to increase the mA to 1500, this driver would be very interesting for the upcoming K2 Led. Any chance that the production version can handle 1500mA?


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## georges80 (Jul 29, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*mobile1 said:*
very nice - good to see that you are maaking progress. Any ideas of the diameter this driver will have?

If there is a possibility to increase the mA to 1500, this driver would be very interesting for the upcoming K2 Led. Any chance that the production version can handle 1500mA? 

[/ QUOTE ]

FatFlex is based on Fatman - so same electrical drive characteristics. 1500mA is pretty tough for a boost driver (especially a small IC with the switch elements internal). The bigger the voltage delta (in vs out), the great the input current that has to go through the switch element. Easier to do a high power buck converter. Also, at 1500mA out, the input current to a boost converter is going to be high enough to freak out small li-ion cells.

FatFlex is the same diameter as Fatman.

george.


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## georges80 (Jul 30, 2005)

Got the firmware downloaded (same as the new nFlex UI1). All seems to be working well at this stage - now the serious beatings must commence /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

FatFlex on dim:






and FatFlex on medium:






I tested the sleep current (electronic off) and I measure <25uA - so a battery will last a long time on sleep. 25uA x 24 * 365 ~ 220mAHr in one year of 'standby/sleep'.

george.


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## wquiles (Jul 30, 2005)

Simply outstanding - great progress report /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif

Will


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## nemul (Jul 31, 2005)

I'll take it! lol


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## Thunder (Jul 31, 2005)

Useing Zetex IC?


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## Christoph (Jul 31, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


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## AuroraLite (Jul 31, 2005)

Most excellent! Paypal ready! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## georges80 (Jul 31, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Thunder said:*
Useing Zetex IC? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all - FatFlex & Fatman can drive 1A fully regulated and dimmable (or more, depending on input/output voltage) to multiple Luxeons. You can read specs on Fatman on my website, see my signature.

Testing is progressing well. A few more corner cases to test out to make sure all is good and things will be complete and then a production board run.

george.


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## andrewwynn (Jul 31, 2005)

i will most certainly take a few of these boards from the first run.

-awr


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## NewBie (Jul 31, 2005)

Hey George.

How soon do you think you'll have efficiency charts at various loads? I'd figure they'd be similar to the fatman, but I don't seen any fatman charts.

Are you current dimming, pulse width modulation dimming, or a combination of the two?


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## georges80 (Jul 31, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*NewBie said:*
Hey George.

How soon do you think you'll have efficiency charts at various loads? I'd figure they'd be similar to the fatman, but I don't seen any fatman charts.

Are you current dimming, pulse width modulation dimming, or a combination of the two? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Current dimming. Yep, basically identical to Fatman - same converter design. For efficiency - it's in the mid 80's to low 90's for most combinations that folk use. Too many variables to bother with specific cases since it can run from about 3V to 12V and drive up to 16V of load. It's an lm2700 as you know from before, so the datasheet is a good place to look for some of the efficiency curves.

Given Fatman is a well understood and used driver by a lot of modders, I don't feel I need to provide any additional electrical specs for FatFlex - since they are the same as Fatman which has more than proven itself as the high power boost converter of choice for LuxV's or multiple Lux3's.

george.


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## Icarus (Jul 31, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wow.gif, sounds great George! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif
I can’t wait to get a few to play with! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## Former_Mag_User (Jul 31, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*cy said:*
I'd like one too, what's the dia of this board? 

[/ QUOTE ]

*Nickel & Fatman*







I was surprised at the size of the fatman when I received it. 

So this will be a boost circuit like a fatman, but instead of using a pot to dim down the light it will be through the switch like the nFlex. If I have that right, this should be a sweet board! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


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## NewBie (Jul 31, 2005)

George,

I have some interest in purchasing one of these setups, so I have a few questions, as I've not had an need to purchase the Fatman yet.

I took a gander at the datasheet.

Looking at the datasheet, it appears more efficient at lower current, higher voltage output. I would guess this is due to the non-synchronous design, with a high side diode output like in the Zetex setup. Is this your experience on your design?

Off a Li-Ion 18650 cell, would you expect your converter to be more efficient with a Lux III at 4V and 1A or a Lux V at 6.5V and 650mA?


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## georges80 (Jul 31, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*NewBie said:*
George,

Off a Li-Ion 18650 cell, would you expect your converter to be more efficient with a Lux III at 4V and 1A or a Lux V at 6.5V and 650mA? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Either way it'll be in the 85+ - 90% range for most of the li-ion discharge curve. I doubt there'll be more than a couple of percent difference in your 2 scenarios.

george.


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## Icarus (Jul 31, 2005)

George does the FatFlex has components at one or at both sides?


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## nemul (Jul 31, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Icarus said:*
George does the FatFlex has components at one or at both sides? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's front and back. check the first post for pictures.


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## georges80 (Aug 1, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Icarus said:*
George does the FatFlex has components at one or at both sides? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup - see photos earlier in the thread, double sided components. How else could I fit the uC and other stuff to Fatman and keep the board the same diameter? Huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

george.


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## Tritium (Aug 1, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/takeit.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif Notify me when ready for paypal.

Thurmond


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## Icarus (Aug 1, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/oops.gif forgot about the pictures in the first post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif


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## andrewwynn (Aug 1, 2005)

nickel is the perfect way to pre-size for a fatman if you are just trying to figure out if there is room.. two stacked nickels will make sure you have enough height for the inductor.

when i've pushed fatman hard.. 10.6V and 2A in.. and 20W out.. i've been able to get over 93% efficiency.. i'm very happy with the fatman in every of the 5 or 6 different models i've used it.. usually pushing 3 or 4 emitters from LiON cells. 

The one issue i've come across is using one LiON cell to 1 lux3 emitter.. it will only usually dim to about 600mA because at lower drive levels the bat voltage just pushes straight through the diode and inductor and ignores the switcher.

-awr

-awr


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## Sway (Sep 29, 2005)

George,

Any updates on availability 

Later
Kelly


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## georges80 (Sep 29, 2005)

Sway said:


> George,
> 
> Any updates on availability
> 
> ...



Yep, none...

Other than checking the forums I haven't had time to 'play' with any of my LED projects for the past few weeks. 

Hopefully I'll free up soon and fire up the prototype again and see where I was at. It did function pretty close to the way I wanted it - so I just need some time to verify everything again before committing to a PCB run.

george.


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## Lunal_Tic (Oct 2, 2005)

Any chance this would work with this setup? Would I have to run wires the length of the light to the tailcap switch?

TIA,
-LT


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## 4sevens (Oct 2, 2005)

George,

Can two fatflex share one switch to drive 4 lux III's?

I simply can't wait


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## StoneDog (Oct 3, 2005)

One of these in a Mag2C w/2 3x123 or 2x18650 driving three TWOH emitters would be absolutely fantastic!


Jon


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## dabiscake (Oct 4, 2005)

Wow! I've been off CPF for a while but I'm happy to come back and see that this one is almost at reach for us! Very much anticipated driver I've been waiting for, ever since your post a few months ago. It's going to be one long month George!!
Also, I'd prefer Lionheart UH1 interface better than nFlex, definitely makes it easier for flashlights... Keep us posted!! Thanks!


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## mobile1 (Oct 17, 2005)

Here is the first Light using a FatFlex driver. George let me borrow his FatFlex prototype and in the link is what I came up with. The board works beautifully...


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## Sway (Oct 23, 2005)

George can we expect these before Christmas? If not I need to change to plan B.

Later
Kelly


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## chimo (Oct 23, 2005)

George mentioned that they may be available in January.

Paul


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## georges80 (Oct 23, 2005)

chimo said:


> George mentioned that they may be available in January.
> 
> Paul



Yep, the main reason I'm holding off on FatFlex (other than just being busy) is I'm waiting for a new uController to be released. It has more firmware capacity and that will allow me to put a few other features in that currently don't fit. The prototype basically had just a few instructions free.

I do have samples of the new uController so I've already done some testing with it - I just need production quantities to become available.

george.


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## Biggimo1 (Jan 5, 2006)

My PP is ready to go. I have Fatman and nFlex. I know this is going to be the board for me. My Lux V headlamp is waiting.

Brian B.


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## georges80 (Jan 5, 2006)

Biggimo1 said:


> My PP is ready to go. I have Fatman and nFlex. I know this is going to be the board for me. My Lux V headlamp is waiting.
> 
> Brian B.



Still waiting for the production release of the new uC. Meant to be in the next month or two. That's all that's holding up FatFlex...

george.


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 5, 2006)




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## OddOne (Jan 6, 2006)

I'm literally planning light ideas around this beast at this point... 

I dunno about anyone else here but I've though that the first person to come up with a viable dimmable step-up controller will start a new wave of innovation in ultrasmall flashlight design. Looks like the G-man is about to topple the first domino!


WTG George! 

oO


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## jtice (Jan 6, 2006)

I have had a 3C mag, and a copper quad sink, and some TWOJ LEDs waiting for this thing !!! 

Cant wait George, thanks for the update.
~John


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## AuroraLite (Jan 6, 2006)

Just want to join the choir and I too did have all my mod planning centered around this 'beast' since 'last year'...

Btw, happy new year to everyone and may this new puppy bring loads of lights into this world.


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## Biggimo1 (Jan 6, 2006)

Thanks for the update George. I agree with everyone else. 

Fatflex will be the perfect board for the DIY caver. I even found waterproof momentary switches for it.

Brian B.


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## wquiles (Jan 6, 2006)

Thanks George. Really looking forward to this one 

Will


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## Icarus (Jan 6, 2006)

Hey George, my Tri-Lux headlamp is begging more than two months now for this driver...  :wave:


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## Meduza (Jan 8, 2006)

How thick will the fatflex be ?


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## georges80 (Jan 8, 2006)

Meduza said:


> How thick will the fatflex be ?



About 2mm thicker than Fatman due to having components on the bottom side of the board. Fatman is about 6.6mm thick (at the inductor). So, for FatFlex around 8.6mm max thickness.

george.


----------



## StoneDog (Jan 10, 2006)

Will the FatFlex sense Vin > Vout and revert to buck mode?


----------



## georges80 (Jan 10, 2006)

StoneDog said:


> Will the FatFlex sense Vin > Vout and revert to buck mode?



It'll sense Vin > Vout and transition to smoke mode...

george.


----------



## StoneDog (Jan 10, 2006)

LOL! Cool feature! It's a smoke/boost converter!


----------



## Icarus (Jan 10, 2006)

George, will the FatFlex run on 3x LIR cells (12.6V) or is the input voltage still limited to 12V?


----------



## georges80 (Jan 10, 2006)

Icarus said:


> George, will the FatFlex run on 3x LIR cells (12.6V) or is the input voltage still limited to 12V?



12V is still the absolute max limit. The switcher core is the exact same as the Fatman core. All I've added is the uC and interface to the switcher to provide the dimming function.

george.


----------



## Billson (Jan 11, 2006)

With the LH UI, does it mean the fatflex will have scrollable brightness as well?


----------



## Billson (Jan 11, 2006)

George, can you clarify these statements for me as they are somewhat contradictory.



jtice said:


> I have had a 3C mag, and a copper quad sink, and some TWOJ LEDs waiting for this thing !!!





george said:


> FatFlex has the same drive specs as Fatman. So, no, 4 Lux3's at 1A is too many Watts, sorry.



But the fatman specs states ...

"Capable of driving 1 or 2 series connected Luxeon 5W LEDs or 2 to 4 series connected Luxeon 1W or Luxeon 3 LEDs"



4sevens said:


> Can two fatflex share one switch to drive 4 lux III's?




Lastly, will you making enough for the seemingly already large demand? I also want at least one.

Thanks.


----------



## jtice (Jan 11, 2006)

Hm, 

If its the same as the Fatman, 
I think it should drive 4 3Wers, just not at up around 1 amp each.
Wonder what the max mA per led it could do,
3 vs 4 LEDs... :thinking:

~John


----------



## mpf (Jan 12, 2006)

Hi George,
Any low voltage cutoff to protect rechargables?
Also can I run multiple boards in parallel from the one switch?
matthew


----------



## georges80 (Jan 12, 2006)

4 Lux3's - but NOT at 1A. On the fatman tech page on my website it shows how to calculate input current, based on input voltage, output voltage, output current. Input current is the parameter that needs to meet the design spec.

Also, since FatFlex is double sided (components on both sides), that means the simple epoxy on the backside of Fatman will not work. So, max power will be less with FatFlex unless you can thermal epoxy a heat spreader to the top of the switcher chip for those wishing to push the envelope.

FatFlex will have programmable (via a menu option) low voltage cutoff. It "may" also have thermal cutoff for the driver board, or at least throttle back.

The new software options is why I'm waiting for the release of the new uC since it has a lot more flash storage than the current uC I use on nFlex/uFlex etc. It will provide me space to add the new features in. Latest info (as of yesterday) is that the new uC should be in full production in Feb...

Yes, I will be making lots of them. At least a run of 250 to start with.

george.


----------



## Christoph (Jan 12, 2006)

:rock:


----------



## jtice (Jan 12, 2006)

oo: Low V Cutoff? sweeeeet :rock:


----------



## mpf (Jan 13, 2006)

georges80 said:


> ..
> FatFlex will have programmable (via a menu option) low voltage cutoff. It "may" also have thermal cutoff for the driver board, or at least throttle back.
> ..
> george.


That looks great george. Can I use the same momentary push switch to run 2 or more FatFlex boards in sync. so I can run more leds?


----------



## Biggimo1 (Jan 15, 2006)

Thats what I'm talkin about MPF. 4x lux V headlamp. WOW. would have to be a caving light. It would melt above ground. 

Brian B.


----------



## jtice (Jan 15, 2006)

lol sheesh, 4 5Wers in a cave, that would melt your EYES ! :green:


----------



## NewBie (Jan 15, 2006)

jtice said:


> lol sheesh, 4 5Wers in a cave, that would melt your EYES ! :green:




Humm, and your x990 HID doesn't?


----------



## BentHeadTX (Jan 15, 2006)

Great prototype, George!
As a proud owner of a nFlex WX1S LuxV 8AA to 2D Mag, I am looking forward to the FatFlex. From what I understand, Andrew Wynn's BAM 4 emitter Mag drop-in mod uses a version of the Fatman or FatFlex driver. 

If the BAM does not pan out, I'll build my own FatFlex with 4 Luxeon K2 emitters (gunning for SWAH) My plan is to use a 9AA to 3D adapter with NiMH batteries. Since the 8AA to 2D loaded with 1700mAH Sanyos sits at over 11 volts, I'll epoxy a dummy cell in the 9AA adapter (to make sure anyone using it will not load 9 batteries) This will work better since a Maha C801 charger only does 8 batteries at once. 

By using the SWAH K2 emitters, the total string of four will have a forward voltage of around 14V which is under the 16V Max. I'll thermal epoxy heat sinks to the chips on the board then epoxy the sinks to the hotlips to help with the heat. Would this be OK when driving four SWAH K2's at 14 volts and 700mA? (10 watts)

If not, what about two FatFlex boards pushing two strings of SWAH K2's from 4C batteries? I don't need to complete the project until late September so there is plenty of time to buy parts if I need to.


----------



## Meduza (Mar 2, 2006)

georges80, how is it going with the FatFlex ?


----------



## Sway (Mar 3, 2006)




----------



## wquiles (Mar 3, 2006)




----------



## georges80 (Mar 3, 2006)

I'm still waiting for the new uController to hit the distributors. As with any new chip - delays are part & parcel of the deal - unfortunately! Also, I'm sure there's a lot of companies that are also in line for it.

As soon as I can get some quantity of the new uC, FatFlex will go into production. Since I can use the same new uC on nFlex, I'm ordering a bunch of them - just a matter of time.........

george.


----------



## wquiles (Mar 3, 2006)

Thanks george 

Will


----------



## Sway (Mar 3, 2006)

Thanks for the update George 

Later
Kelly


----------



## wtraymond (Mar 22, 2006)

georges80 said:


> Yes, I will be making lots of them. At least a run of 250 to start with.george.



Only 250! Heck, I'll need 250 of these myself. Aren't you going to make enough for everyone?


----------



## AuroraLite (Mar 22, 2006)

George,

Still looking forward to this new favorite board of everyone...any quick updates?


----------



## georges80 (Mar 23, 2006)

AuroraLite said:


> George,
> 
> Still looking forward to this new favorite board of everyone...any quick updates?



Still waiting on the uController. Seems like the economy is picking up - a bunch of different uControllers from Atmel (and other parts I normally can get easily) seem to be very popular these days and getting supplies is getting tougher.

As soon as I can get the uController I'll be building Fatflexes... I'm getting tired waiting too!

george.


----------



## Tritium (Mar 27, 2006)

Thurmond


----------



## CroMAGnet (Mar 27, 2006)




----------



## Mirage_Man (Apr 27, 2006)

Any news yet?


----------



## mobile1 (Apr 28, 2006)

Since I have the fatflex prototype working in my Mag2D mod, all I can say it has been doing a great job - the light gets used every day.

Then I would like to add one more thing. To get an efficiency comparision of current cpf drivers, we ordered every possible driver offered here. George's Fatman (which would be the core for the fatflex) was the most efficient one and outperformed all of the ordered drivers....


----------



## georges80 (Apr 28, 2006)

Hi Guys, I have finally sourced some decent quantity of the uController that I want to use on FatFlex so that aspect is now taken care of. The new uC has enough space to allow me to put in user selectable voltage cutoff (to protect cells from overdischarge). A menu option will allow the user to set the cutoff voltage trip point. The new uC will also allow me to put in thermal protection for the driver board - so it can 'tone' down the drive current if the board gets too hot (too high current output for not enough heatsinking...).

I will be getting new protos back in about 1 1/2 weeks to evaluate some design changes and then FatFlex can finally get into production.

I'm also evaluating one other 'change' that I'll keep to myself for now. If it pans out then...

cheers,
george.


----------



## wquiles (Apr 28, 2006)

Thanks much George :rock: 

Will


----------



## Tritium (Apr 28, 2006)

PayPal locked and loaded.


Thurmond


----------



## Sway (Apr 28, 2006)

Thanks for the update George!

Later
Kelly


----------



## greenLED (Apr 28, 2006)

Maybe I'll finish my 2D Mag mod after all.


----------



## Icarus (Apr 28, 2006)

Great news George! :twothumbs


----------



## AuroraLite (Apr 29, 2006)

What Icarus said! 

Looks like we gonna have a fun modding summer... :naughty:


----------



## BentHeadTX (Apr 29, 2006)

georges80 said:


> The new uC has enough space to allow me to put in user selectable voltage cutoff (to protect cells from overdischarge). A menu option will allow the user to set the cutoff voltage trip point. The new uC will also allow me to put in thermal protection for the driver board - so it can 'tone' down the drive current if the board gets too hot.
> 
> I'm also evaluating one other 'change' that I'll keep to myself for now. If it pans out then...
> 
> ...



George,
Andrew Wynn is using your FatFlex in his BAM! Mag drop-in mod, will it also offer the thermal protection? If so, outstanding work George! 

Now to figure out the other "change", maybe higher voltages allowed for input?


----------



## Icarus (May 13, 2006)

Hi George, any updates on availability?


----------



## andrewwynn (May 15, 2006)

BentHeadTX said:


> George,
> Andrew Wynn is using your FatFlex in his BAM! Mag drop-in mod, will it also offer the thermal protection? If so, outstanding work George!
> 
> Now to figure out the other "change", maybe higher voltages allowed for input?



actually.. i licensed the use of fatMAN.. i control the output with an internal 3-level switch.. the switcher chip in fatman has an internal thermal limit that will shut if off if it hits 85C (185F). I think george mentioned using a different switcher for fatflex.. at least as a possibility, but last i heard it was the same.. 

-awr


----------



## Halibut (May 15, 2006)

Icarus said:


> Hi George, any updates on availability?



Yes, inquiring minds want to know!

FatFlex chant begins in earnest...


----------



## georges80 (May 16, 2006)

I received the prototype PCBs late last week. I have assembled (mostly) one FatFlex to try out. Yesterday I received one of the components that I had forgotten to order and have another coming tomorrow from Digikey.

So, soon I'll have one of the new designs built and ready to test. Today I'll spend some time making changes to the old FatFlex software for the new design.

A few more days and I'll be able to report my findings on the new design and whether it or the original will go forward to production.

cheers,
george.


----------



## Tritium (May 16, 2006)

Thurmond


----------



## wquiles (May 16, 2006)

:buddies:  



Will


----------



## AuroraLite (May 16, 2006)

George, 

Thanks for the update and keep up the good work! I am sure it will worth the waiting! :thumbsup:


----------



## BentHeadTX (May 16, 2006)

AuroraLite said:


> George,
> 
> Thanks for the update and keep up the good work! I am sure it will worth the waiting! :thumbsup:



Andrew,
It will be great to see the prototypes in action to gauge the performance. Have you been able to play around with the Luxeon K2 LEDs to see how it will all go together?


----------



## modamag (May 18, 2006)

Great news georges80. I volunteer (shoved all others in line) to be the MadFlex guinee pig


----------



## OddOne (May 18, 2006)

PayPal standing by, account primed and ready, safety interlocks off.

oO


----------



## modamag (May 18, 2006)

OddOne, georges is not intimidated by PP :nana: so just disable that account


----------



## Tritium (May 19, 2006)

modamag said:


> Great news georges80. I volunteer (shoved all others in line) to be the MadFlex guinee pig


 
MadFlex? Is Wayne involved in this also?

Thurmond


----------



## georges80 (May 19, 2006)

Got the final bits in the mail, so this morning I finished off assembling the prototype. Off to work now, so 'firing' it up will have to wait till the weekend.

Here's a pic top/bottom views of the new proto, diameter is the same as Fatman.







george.


----------



## Tritium (May 19, 2006)

COOL BEANS!! :twothumbs


Thurmond


----------



## Icarus (May 19, 2006)

*YES! *  :twothumbs


----------



## Halibut (May 19, 2006)

*Freddy*: I'm going to need some 2C-->2x CR123 adapters soon... 

*George*: Is there going to be a launch party when FatFlex goes public? I'd be willing to drive up to Sunnyvale to save you the trouble of shipping them down here!

-Dan


----------



## lildave (May 22, 2006)

Hey Halibut ley me know you can get a couple for me. Since we live so close I'm 5 min north of you.


----------



## CroMAGnet (May 22, 2006)

Yippee!! Let get together for a CPF lunch and celebrate with a 

*Get FatFlex [email protected]*


----------



## OddOne (May 23, 2006)

modamag said:


> OddOne, georges is not intimidated by PP :nana: so just disable that account



Yeah, right. Uh huh! You just wanna get one before I do! 

oO


----------



## georges80 (May 23, 2006)

Just an update...

Finally found a stupid operator error in programming the prototype - dumb dumb dumb... So, I have the prototype running on the bench and driving a LuxV as a test load.

I have the nFlex UIP code running on it and can dim/brighten etc via the switch input.

There's a bunch more work to do to test out the various features of the new switcher core and to take some efficiency measurements.

I have disconnected the load and the output voltage maxed to 23.95V (target design is to max out at 24V). i.e. this design is open circuit protected.

Hopefully I'll get some time tonight to put the proto through more of its paces and I'll snap a pic or two of it in operation.

Looking good at this point and if things continue to pan out I'll then announce what features the new design has versus the stable mate Fatman.

cheers,
george.


----------



## CroMAGnet (May 23, 2006)




----------



## flex76italy (May 23, 2006)

Ciao Giorgio, :goodjob: 

:wave:


----------



## wquiles (May 23, 2006)

Great update George 

Will


----------



## andrewwynn (May 23, 2006)

niiiiice on open-ckt protection george! can you RUN at higher than 16V output? 4xK2 is over 16V. 

-awr


----------



## georges80 (May 23, 2006)

andrewwynn said:


> niiiiice on open-ckt protection george! can you RUN at higher than 16V output? 4xK2 is over 16V.
> 
> -awr



I did write 24V as the max output voltage didn't I?

Input voltage must be less than output voltage, but can be up to 24V too



cheers,
george.


----------



## andrewwynn (May 23, 2006)

I actually wasn't sure.. i was making presumptions based on fatman and 16V upper limit, i thought fatflex was a fatman driver controlled by nFlex controller but you did say you were switching the switcher.. so 'sky is the limit'.. it will be very helpful to have >16V output or input. 

-awr


----------



## Sway (May 23, 2006)

georges80 said:


> I did write 24V as the max output voltage didn't I?
> 
> Input voltage must be less than output voltage, but can be up to 24V too
> 
> ...



:wow: upto 24V just like a nFlex  

:thinking: Wait a minute, I told you over a year ago I wanted some.......guess I still want them :wave:

Later
Kelly


----------



## Icarus (May 23, 2006)

georges80 said:


> Input voltage must be less than output voltage, but can be up to 24V too
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's great news George! :rock:


----------



## Pinter (May 24, 2006)

Great news George!
Is there any limit on the input current?


----------



## Tritium (May 24, 2006)

I thought I remembered seeing a thread recently that indicated a "high voltage" n-flex that worked up to 32v ?


Thurmond


----------



## flex76italy (May 24, 2006)

Tritium said:


> I thought I remembered seeing a thread recently that indicated a "high voltage" n-flex that worked up to 32v ?
> 
> 
> Thurmond




Yes, only with modding....see here


----------



## cue003 (May 28, 2006)

Wow, just read this entire thread.


----------



## georges80 (May 31, 2006)

Guess it works eh?

Left picture is on low and right picture is on high (350mA table) driving a LuxV.

More testing to do of course.

george.


----------



## jtice (May 31, 2006)

Sweet progress 
Keep up the good work.


----------



## Icarus (May 31, 2006)

Can't wait to put one of these in my TL-headlamp! :rock:


----------



## Halibut (Jun 9, 2006)

George,

The members of FatFlex Fan Club would like a progress update. Puhleeeeese? 

-Dan


----------



## dabiscake (Jun 14, 2006)

Hi George, any news on availability forecast in the near future on these babies?  I've been waiting for a Fatflex to power some K2s, which look to be shipping very very soon...


----------



## HarryN (Jun 15, 2006)

Hi George - it would be really neat if that thing can drive a Vf of 24 volts.


----------



## gregw (Jun 23, 2006)

Waiting for this for a Magmod...


----------



## georges80 (Jun 23, 2006)

Sorry guys, I've been busy at work and some other more 'paying' projects and this gone on the backburner. I just ran some prototype pcbs and totally forgot to add the latest Fatflex proto onto the panel - that gives you an idea of how sidetracked I've been on getting Fatflex finished.

I'm pretty happy with the latest proto with the new switcher chip, but I really need to run one more proto pcb to verify some layout changes. So, it's going to be a few more weeks before I get those done and free up from my other projects.

cheers,
george.


----------



## jar3ds (Jun 23, 2006)

thanks for the update george


----------



## DFiorentino (Jul 8, 2006)

I hope the first production run will be in large quantity because I can see these moving out _FAST_.


-DF


----------



## tonyd (Jul 8, 2006)

Can not wait. Have several lights that could use a brain.


----------



## Icarus (Jul 10, 2006)

tonyd said:


> Can not wait. Have several lights that could use a brain.



Same here.


----------



## rantanplan (Jul 10, 2006)

Λ
|
|
joins the queue ...


----------



## Halibut (Jul 18, 2006)

Fat Flex Fat Flex Fat Flex Fat Flex...


----------



## Changchung (Aug 2, 2006)

Hi George, is my for this way, i am little confused, i can use this FatFlex with my Fatmans or i have to replace for this one??? This Fatman is a booster and Nflex too??? Thanks... Any update...


----------



## Icarus (Aug 2, 2006)

Changchung said:


> Hi George, is my for this way, i am little confused, i can use this FatFlex with my Fatmans or i have to replace for this one??? This Fatman is a booster and Nflex too??? Thanks... Any update...



Fatman and FatFlex are step-up and nFlex is step-down.
FatFlex can be used where the Fatman is used.


----------



## georges80 (Aug 2, 2006)

Thanks for answering the question Freddy.

I received new protopcbs last Friday and built up a new FatFlex this past weekend. Worked first go - I must be getting better at soldering those nasty thermal pad IC's...

The good news is that I've ported the latest nFlex UIP software (not yet released) over and other than a few lines of code it runs the same firmware. Makes it easier for me to maintain one source file for 2 products.

I've spent some time recoding the UIP software from assembler to C since FatFlex and the next generation nFlex will both use a larger capacity flash based Atmel uController. Now that it's in C I can add features a lot easier and with less risk of introducing bugs.

So, the new FatFlex is getting close, I've run the prototype most of this week and am happy with its performance.

The main feature I've added to the FatFlex UIP software is a voltage menu - yep, you can now enter a voltage in 0.1V increments via the menu. Basically you can set the voltage to say 7.3V and when the uController senses the input voltage is lower than 7.3V it will set one of the output pins high (you can connect a 3mm or 5mm Red/Amber LED) and it will light. If you don't want to wire a separate LED in (especially mods that preclude drilling holes into the body), you can optionally set the Luxeon(s) to flash every 5/10/30/60 or 120 seconds (that's the current times, but I'll more than likely change that). I decided to go with the flashing since it's the easiest to implement (rather than ramping things down etc) and the light is still usable if the user wants to ignore the warning (like they're out in the dark and NEED the light to work).

cheers,
george.


----------



## Mirage_Man (Aug 2, 2006)

georges80 said:


> The main feature I've added to the FatFlex UIP software is a voltage menu - yep, you can now enter a voltage in 0.1V increments via the menu. Basically you can set the voltage to say 7.3V and when the uController senses the input voltage is lower than 7.3V it will set one of the output pins high (you can connect a 3mm or 5mm Red/Amber LED) and it will light. If you don't want to wire a separate LED in (especially mods that preclude drilling holes into the body), you can optionally set the Luxeon(s) to flash every 5/10/30/60 or 120 seconds (that's the current times, but I'll more than likely change that). I decided to go with the flashing since it's the easiest to implement (rather than ramping things down etc) and the light is still usable if the user wants to ignore the warning (like they're out in the dark and NEED the light to work).
> 
> cheers,
> george.



So am I correct in assuming the main thing this feature would be useful for is to alert you that your batteries are dieing? Especially useful if you are using unprotected Li Ions right?

MM


----------



## Changchung (Aug 3, 2006)

Icarus said:


> Fatman and FatFlex are step-up and nFlex is step-down.
> FatFlex can be used where the Fatman is used.


 
Thanks Icarus, now, i have to make two mods more to use my two Fatmans... heheheh


----------



## Changchung (Aug 3, 2006)

George, if you want i can test one for you...


----------



## georges80 (Aug 3, 2006)

Mirage_Man said:


> So am I correct in assuming the main thing this feature would be useful for is to alert you that your batteries are dieing? Especially useful if you are using unprotected Li Ions right?
> 
> MM



Yep, great for any rechargeable battery source.

george.


----------



## AuroraLite (Aug 3, 2006)

George,

Awesome news, thanks for the update.

So from your description of the features, if I set the light to output at the highest level, when the pre-set voltage is reached, it could either flash the lux or lit up a 3/5mm...and like nflex, it might step-down to the next highest level of output afterwards(when the battery cannot support the highest level)?! Woo...


----------



## marcdilnutt (Aug 3, 2006)

This sounds like a rather interesting board, will it possible to drive a lux v with it? If so i think it will be good for my upcoming l4 mod.
marc


----------



## georges80 (Aug 3, 2006)

nFlex doesn't ramp down - the drops in output you see are just the effect of a buck converter not having enough input voltage to maintain current regulation at higher levels - i.e. it is purely a hardware effect.

FatFlex won't ramp down (until the batteries take a dive or the switchers input current limit trips) since it is a boost converter, what will happen instead is the input current will continue to rise as it tries to maintain regulation. So, having a 'trip' voltage setting does at least 2 things, 1) it allows the user to not overdischarge their rechargeable cells and provides warning that the input voltage is close to cutoff (for protected cells), 2) provides warning that the input current may be getting too high for safe operation. It is the user's responsibility to set the 'trip' voltage (via the menu system) to an appropriate level.

All menu settings are stored in non-volatile eeprom within the uController - just as per nFlex.

FatFlex can of course drive a LuxV (or 2 or 3) - the input/output voltage specs exceed Fatman's.

Input voltage range is 2.5V - 25V (input must be < output voltage to be in current regulation and not direct drive).
Output voltage range is up to 24V (open circuit protected to 24V).

I'll be out of town next week, on my return I'll get things rolling to do a production run of drivers.

george.


----------



## wquiles (Aug 3, 2006)

Great new features George :goodjob:

Will


----------



## Anglepoise (Aug 3, 2006)

This 'trip voltage' adjustment is something new and seems like a great safety idea as well.


----------



## marcdilnutt (Aug 3, 2006)

Sounds good to me George. I think i will get one of these.
marc


----------



## Mirage_Man (Aug 3, 2006)

georges80 said:


> I'll be out of town next week, on my return I'll get things rolling to do a production run of drivers.
> 
> george.



:twothumbs:santa::thumbsup::bow:

WOO HOO!!! Paypal is locked and loaded! Put me on the list for the first batch for at least 2.

MM


----------



## Christoph (Aug 4, 2006)

I also want at least two of these:naughty: sounds good George 

C


----------



## lildave (Aug 4, 2006)

wow these are starting to sound expensive (i'm a flashaholic like it matters).
any ballpark on a price?


----------



## georges80 (Aug 4, 2006)

lildave said:


> wow these are starting to sound expensive (i'm a flashaholic like it matters).
> any ballpark on a price?



They'll be < $30 each. I won't have firm pricing until after I get the quote from the assembly house.

george.


----------



## NewBie (Aug 5, 2006)

Does this new converter also monitor temperature?

If so, is there a set point for it also?

Do you have any input voltage vs. output current plots? Just some typical stuff is fine, single cell, two cell input ranges. Maybe 1, 2, 3 emitter range also.


----------



## lildave (Aug 5, 2006)

WOOOW great job !!!


----------



## georges80 (Aug 5, 2006)

NewBie said:


> Does this new converter also monitor temperature?
> 
> If so, is there a set point for it also?
> 
> Do you have any input voltage vs. output current plots? Just some typical stuff is fine, single cell, two cell input ranges. Maybe 1, 2, 3 emitter range also.



Edit to add 4 series Lux3 efficiency readings.

The uController has an inbuilt temp sensor (one of the A/D channels can access it). I haven't (yet) implemented temperature but most likely will since the capability is there. Because the uController in obviously on the same board it can sense driver temperature and lower the drive current as necessary to keep the switcher core 'happy'.

As far as temperature control of the Luxeons - folk that have used the Fatman driver have already figured out the appropriate large heatsinks to be used with multiple Luxeons - like Modamag and Icarus.

Efficiency, well a couple of spot checks with a LuxV shows:

88.7% efficient with output -> 6.3V 350mA
88.1% efficient with output -> 7.0V 1000mA

This is with a nominal 5V input (power supply).

AND (4 series LuxeonIII's):

88% efficient with output -> 13.72V 260mA
88.3% efficient with output -> 15.7V 650mA
86% efficient with output -> 15.82V 1010mA

With 7.75V nominal input (power supply)

One addition I've made to the layout is to expose the plated copper on the bottom of the board where the switcher thermal vias come through. That will allow the more 'adventurous' modders to solder a tab from there to a heatsink - see picture below of area that will be able to be soldered to. Obviously the picture is of the prototype (no soldermask, no silkscreen etc).







george.


----------



## georges80 (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*

Some pics of the proto in action. I've also changed the name of this driver to MaxFlex since it no longer is based on the Fatman switcher core AND it has quite a feature set compared to it.

MaxFlex has 6 current tables to choose from (350, 500, 700, 1000, 1200 and 1400mA). It has 5 levels (like the LH/LC and Chameleon drivers) for each current table, the 5 levels start at 20mA (low) and end at the high for the current table. Steps in between are reasonably equal sized as far as the human eye is concerned.

20mA into the Luxeons - this is the low setting of the driver. 






1010mA into the Luxeons (auto exposure is ON - so the camera has shuttered down for this photo ).






george.


----------



## Icarus (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*

:wow: … I’m very happy with the 1200mA and 1400mA current tables George! :goodjob: …  … :twothumbs …


----------



## Long John (Aug 5, 2006)

:twothumbsFantastic work George:goodjob:

Best regards

_____
Tom


----------



## ktronik (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re:MaxFlex Prototype*

:goodjob: :rock:


----------



## FirstDsent (Aug 6, 2006)

George,

This may be a naive question, but I'm not very knowledgeable with electronics. Your photos show the driver being externally wired for + and -, and an external switch. I want to use it in a standard configuration with a tailcap switch. I will have to improvise a battery PCB and a tab for the battery tube contact, but will I have to solder a jumper for the switch pads? 

Also, will you make a wiring diagram and a UI flowchart available? I am not familiar with the nFlex or the LC UIs. 

Bernie


----------



## georges80 (Aug 6, 2006)

FirstDsent said:


> George,
> 
> This may be a naive question, but I'm not very knowledgeable with electronics. Your photos show the driver being externally wired for + and -, and an external switch. I want to use it in a standard configuration with a tailcap switch. I will have to improvise a battery PCB and a tab for the battery tube contact, but will I have to solder a jumper for the switch pads?
> 
> ...



You can find the info on the nFlex UI (you want to read the UIP version) if you click on my website link in my signature and follow the links to the tech section for nFlex.

Nope - you can't use a standard tail cap switch since it only turns the power on/off. The switch you see in the picture goes to the uController and it turns the power on/off via a power FET. So, you don't need the tailswitch at all if you don't want it - if you leave it, it would only act as an auxiliary power switch.

Folk that have used the larger Mag lights as hosts for the nFlex (same kind of uController switch interface modify the switch in the Mag for momentary action AND disable it from connecting to the battery).

george.


----------



## dabiscake (Aug 7, 2006)

George, It's been a long wait and I'm still hyped up about this driver as I was from the first time you've introduced it! Almost there... (BTW don't know about the others, but I kind of like FatFlex better than MaxFlex ).
Question on the side: will you have any appropriate electronic switches for sale on your website as well, or specs at least to know what kind of thresholds we should look for in those switches? Keep up the good work!! Thanks.


----------



## Billson (Aug 8, 2006)

Hi George,

When there isn't sufficient power to light the leds at the chosen current level, will it shut off like the Chameleon or just continue flashing.

Thanks.


----------



## georges80 (Aug 12, 2006)

Billson said:


> Hi George,
> 
> When there isn't sufficient power to light the leds at the chosen current level, will it shut off like the Chameleon or just continue flashing.
> 
> Thanks.




It will continue to flash ASSUMING you have set the 'trip' voltage at an appropriate level. If not then it will continue to draw current until the battery can no longer provide the oompf necessary. The idea of the 'trip' voltage is to allow the user to set a 'reasonable' lower voltage that provides warning that the batteries are close to the minimum safe operating voltage (both for the batteries - rechargeables, and for the driver - to limit it's input current).

This is typical of boost converters - they draw more and more current as the input voltage drops. Most boost converters when they draw the battery down to low and the battery 'collapses' will flash off, the battery recovers, voltage increases, driver starts up again, LED lights and then the whole 'collapse' cycle starts again --> LED that flashes on/off.

The Chameleon driver has a uController, so when the input voltage drops below ~2.7V it 'resets' and that defaults the light to the off state until the button is clicked again to turn the light back on. So, it behaves differently that a 'dumb' boost converter in that it doesn't flash.

With MaxFlex I've put the 'control' into the user's hands, it is the user's job to set the 'trip' voltage. I can't, since I don't know that the battery configuration is and what the battery chemistry is. Once set, the 'trip' voltage is stored in eeprom (it can be 'reset' to a new value if desired).

george.


----------



## Mirage_Man (Aug 12, 2006)

> With *MaxFlex* I've put the 'control' into the user's hands



So have you officially changed the name from Fatflex to Maxflex??

MM


----------



## georges80 (Aug 12, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*



Mirage_Man said:


> So have you officially changed the name from Fatflex to Maxflex??
> 
> MM



Yep, I guess I have. Like I wrote earlier in the thread, MaxFlex has no component similarity to Fatman unlike the earlier FatFlex prototype that was a Fatman switcher core 'bolted' to an nFlex controller.

MaxFlex uses a different switcher bolted to an nFlex core, so even though it may cause some initial confusion, I think it is a better name long term. The new switcher core allows for higher input voltage and higher output voltage (up to 24V output the way I have it designed) and allows me to provide open circuit protection.

cheers,
george.


----------



## wquiles (Aug 13, 2006)

Size-wise the new converter will be like the D2DIM, Fatman, or Nflex?

Will


----------



## georges80 (Aug 13, 2006)

wquiles said:


> Size-wise the new converter will be like the D2DIM, Fatman, or Nflex?
> 
> Will



Fatman diameter (round). With components on both sides - so maybe about 1.5 - 2mm thicker.

george.


----------



## Mirage_Man (Aug 13, 2006)

So what's the approx. time frame until you start shipping them???

MM


----------



## georges80 (Aug 13, 2006)

Mirage_Man said:


> So what's the approx. time frame until you start shipping them???
> 
> MM



Hopefully in about 1 month. Just back from a 1 week holiday, so tomorrow I send the info off to the assembly house to get the ball rolling. Hopefully within a few days I'll have a schedule and some facts to share.

cheers,
george.


----------



## Nitroz (Aug 13, 2006)

I need one of these badly.


----------



## Changchung (Aug 13, 2006)

Some news???


----------



## Mirage_Man (Aug 14, 2006)

Changchung said:


> Some news???



Read 2 posts up ^^^.

MM


----------



## georges80 (Aug 16, 2006)

Ok - we're finally getting closer. Started getting the assembly house ready to go, they have the BOM etc and will start to order parts and get the show on the road in the next few days...

Guesstimates are about 1 month to assembled boards in my hands.

I'll update the thread as I get firmer dates & pricing.

cheers,
george.


----------



## DFiorentino (Aug 16, 2006)

Such perfect timing! Already have my XX1S and now the _Max_Flex is finally rolling down the pipe. Awesome....

:rock:
-DF


----------



## georges80 (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*

Ok, the assembly house has started ordering parts - so the show is officially

On the Road 

Based on the quote I received MaxFlex drivers will be $30.

cheers,
george.


----------



## aosty (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*

 



georges80 said:


> Ok, the assembly house has started ordering parts - so the show is officially
> 
> On the Road
> 
> ...


----------



## Tritium (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*



georges80 said:


> Ok, the assembly house has started ordering parts - so the show is officially
> 
> On the Road
> 
> ...


 
Where does the line form for orders? 

Thurmond


----------



## cmacclel (Aug 17, 2006)

Sign me up for 10  I have a bunch of Custom lights waiting on this driver.

Mac


----------



## Mirage_Man (Aug 17, 2006)

I'm still in for at least 2 right off the bat, maybe more.

MM


----------



## georges80 (Aug 17, 2006)

Folks, thanks for your enthusiasm!

There'll be no line as such - the first run will be 250 pieces so I should have more than enough to fill your initial needs. Another run of 250 pieces will follow on as necessay.

No prepays, I've never taken prepays and never will - too much pressure to deliver and too many opportunities for folk to become impatient and unhappy.

I'm going to work on putting together a technical description and operating manual etc (just as for my other drivers) and put it up on my website. As soon as I have it done I'll post here and I'll be open to Q & A's so I can refine the documents.

cheers,
george.


----------



## Changchung (Aug 23, 2006)

Hi George, looking in the taskled page i find the maxflex this one is a good option to drive 4 K2 in serie???


----------



## georges80 (Aug 23, 2006)

Changchung said:


> Hi George, looking in the taskled page i find the maxflex this one is a good option to drive 4 K2 in serie???



Yes, it will work fine since it can drive up to 24V at the output. Of course you need to follow the recommendations in terms of input current (which basically allows you to figure out what input voltage you'll need to provide).

george.


----------



## Changchung (Aug 23, 2006)

georges80 said:


> Yes, it will work fine since it can drive up to 24V at the output. Of course you need to follow the recommendations in terms of input current (which basically allows you to figure out what input voltage you'll need to provide).
> 
> george.


 
Ok, thanks, I am going to consider this option, you have idea of the cost of this one?


----------



## georges80 (Aug 23, 2006)

Changchung said:


> Ok, thanks, I am going to consider this option, you have idea of the cost of this one? And cost please...



Look about 8 posts up 

george.


----------



## Changchung (Aug 23, 2006)

georges80 said:


> Look about 8 posts up
> 
> 
> 
> Got it... Thanks...


----------



## CarbonArc (Aug 27, 2006)

George,


Any idea of when the *MaxFlex UIP* will be available? I would definitely be interested in 2 of these. 

*Thanks*

*Ryan*


----------



## georges80 (Aug 27, 2006)

CarbonArc said:


> George,
> 
> 
> Any idea of when the *MaxFlex UIP* will be available? I would definitely be interested in 2 of these.



The assembly house is working on it. I'm hoping to have the first batch in hand by mid Sept.

cheers,
george.


----------



## rscanady (Aug 28, 2006)

George,
are the drive levels for the Maxflex set at the advertised 350, 500.... and so on or can they be user configured into something like. 050, 100, 150, 250, 350, and 500. 

Am curious to know for a Tri Lux I series setup, where I dont really need the higher drive levels.

I read through the documentation but was still a little confused about it.

Thanks

Ryan


----------



## georges80 (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*



rscanady said:


> George,
> are the drive levels for the Maxflex set at the advertised 350, 500.... and so on or can they be user configured into something like. 050, 100, 150, 250, 350, and 500.
> 
> Am curious to know for a Tri Lux I series setup, where I dont really need the higher drive levels.
> ...



Just like nFlex_UIP, you have a fixed choice of several current tables, MaxFlex has 350, 500, 700 etc.

Once you choose a current table (i.e. the max current), then MaxFlex has 5 levels that are hardwired for that specific current table. The 5 levels are then accessed via the switch, dim - > bright (where bright is the max current for that table, i.e. 350, 500, 700 etc), kinda/sorta equally spaced in terms of the eye's perception of intensity (~ logarithmic).

The idea (which has been well accepted in the nFlex_UIP firmware) is that the user selects the max current for a specific Luxeon/battery combination that they want to drive. The driver then provides 5 current steps from dim to the max current. If the user wants to later change the max current, they can just use the menu system to reconfigure the driver to a new current table.

Typical use of the light is to set the Force level to medium. That allows from off, one click to Force level and then a press to high and a press back to Force level or from off, a press to low. So, easy access to three levels.

george.


----------



## Changchung (Sep 16, 2006)

Hi George, can i use one Fatflex for run 4 K2? too series of 2 group in parallel?


----------



## georges80 (Sep 20, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*

The assembly house that is building the MaxFlex drivers for me is planning to get them into my hands by the end of this week.

Factor some time to program/test some up and I'm hoping they'll be ready to ship to folk later next week (last week of Sept).

I've also rolled some new code into MaxFlex that will become the basis of my uController based drivers from here out.

The key feature of the new firmware is that the UIF and UIP modes of nFlex are now included in a single product. The user can now reconfigure MaxFlex to either use the UIF or UIP interface.

I've updated the preliminary MaxFlex tech document on my website to reflect the new menu system.

cheers,
george.


----------



## andrewwynn (Sep 20, 2006)

with the UIF or UIP and low-volt.. you don't get paid enough.. great job.

-awr


----------



## OddOne (Sep 20, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*



georges80 said:


> The assembly house that is building the MaxFlex drivers for me is planning to get them into my hands by the end of this week.
> 
> Factor some time to program/test some up and I'm hoping they'll be ready to ship to folk later next week (last week of Sept).



Might hafta get one of 'em for a writeup for my LED site. Then again I have like eight things pending for writeups that I haven't sit down and hammered out... 

oO


----------



## jar3ds (Sep 21, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*

dang... george your boards are going to be welcomed by many many maglite mod's around the world... THANKS!


----------



## Amonra (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*

ill take 3 how do i order ?


----------



## jar3ds (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*



Amonra said:


> ill take 3 how do i order ?


 they are not out yet...


----------



## Amonra (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*

ok so i guess im in the list now right ?


----------



## BentHeadTX (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*



Amonra said:


> ok so i guess im in the list now right ?




George is making around 250 of the boards, plenty to go around (I hope)


----------



## georges80 (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*

The assembly house ran a little late. They have the majority of boards done & through the inspection phase but still some that are going through the assembly process (as of yesterday, Friday).

So, their plan is to ship Tuesday. That means I'll get them later in the week so that pushes things back 1 week, since I have to do my programming/testing as well.

First week of Oct is my plan to open up for orders and start shipping units out.

As soon as they are ready to ship I'll post availabiliy on this thread and also update my website.

There will be plenty to go around. The first batch is for 250 and the assembly house has most of the stuff ready to run a second batch of 250.

Thanks to you all for hanging in there and for your patience.

cheers,
george.


----------



## Christoph (Sep 23, 2006)

:thanks:


----------



## ktronik (Sep 27, 2006)

:rock:


----------



## wquiles (Sep 27, 2006)

You can read here about the new round nFlex, which will have the same software/firmware/menu features as the new MaxiFlex 

Will


----------



## CarbonArc (Sep 28, 2006)

George


How many K2 emitters could the MaxFlex drive @ 1400ma?

Thanks

Ryan


----------



## cmacclel (Sep 28, 2006)

CarbonArc said:


> George
> 
> 
> How many K2 emitters could the MaxFlex drive @ 1400ma?
> ...



Should be up to 24v output. The current K2's have a vf of around 4.2v at 1.4 amps so you should be able to drive 5, K2's. You would need a 4 or 5 cell Li-Ion's for that setup.

Mac


----------



## tonyd (Sep 28, 2006)

You will also have to deal with the heat transfer issue. I have preached copper heat sinks, but you will need one in this arrangement. Still looking to see eutictics, but with K's you'll need copper:lolsign:


----------



## cmacclel (Sep 28, 2006)

tonyd said:


> You will also have to deal with the heat transfer issue. I have preached copper heat sinks, but you will need one in this arrangement. Still looking to see eutictics, but with K's you'll need copper:lolsign:



I personally think copper is over rated. Yes thermally it is a better conductor over aluminum but the difference when used for lighting is marginal. Also once copper heats up it takes much much longer to cool down over aluminum. For our needs it not worth the additional costs.

Mac


----------



## tonyd (Sep 28, 2006)

Not to debate heat transfer with you but two equations deal with heat transfer in these temp ranges:

Q=mCp dt and Q =Kadt

Now we can discuss these and the values of each term for copper and aluminum, but suffice it to say that copper wins out almost 2 to 1. Further I am at a loss as a chemical engineer to understand why peoplr think copper gives up its heat less readily. Although this is more appropriate to radient heat transfer, a black body heats more quickly and cools more quickly. Gibbs has a great equation for this, and I can explain. I think as your sre there are a bunch of great modders on this forum that do not have a great understanding of heat transfer. I had a great deal of bannter with Wayne at Electrolumens concerning copper, yet now I see his latest creation of which you expressed interest uses a copper heat sink . Suffice to say that a much thinner copper heat sink will remove as much or more heat than an aluminum heat sink.

I think that important to raise the level of design in the wonderful lights you and others produce.


----------



## tonyd (Sep 28, 2006)

I am sorry for the typos I wish this forum moved faster. Surface Area of heat sinks and mass of heat sinks play the greatest role in heat transfer in this temperture range. Flashlights are basically round, thiu surface area is 3.14159x diameter, and as such the bigger the head the better the heat transfer. Too often modders have said copper is to heavy, but in fact it becomes looking at equivalent mass, a lot less copper performs the same heat transfer function as a much thicker aluminum sink- thus could you install deeper reflectors with a thinner sink? could you transfer heat to the body of the light rather than the head? etc. These are basic heat transfer issues which when discussed positively can advance our twisted little hobby. I readily admit I can not produce the lights you do. But I know that if heat limited design parameters have been stumbling blocks, there are answers.


----------



## tonyd (Sep 28, 2006)

I am sorry for the typos I wish this forum moved faster. Surface Area of heat sinks and mass of heat sinks play the greatest role in heat transfer in this temperture range. Flashlights are basically round, thiu surface area is 3.14159x diameter, and as such the bigger the head the better the heat transfer. Too often modders have said copper is to heavy, but in fact it becomes looking at equivalent mass, a lot less copper performs the same heat transfer function as a much thicker aluminum sink- thus could you install deeper reflectors with a thinner sink? could you transfer heat to the body of the light rather than the head? etc. These are basic heat transfer issues which when discussed positively can advance our twisted little hobby. I readily admit I can not produce the lights you do. But I know that if heat limited design parameters have been stumbling blocks, there are answers.


----------



## Anglepoise (Sep 28, 2006)

I love the fact that it has a warning built in for low voltage. Perfect for Li Ions
and great to be able to wire it up to a small warning LED.
Have I understood this correctly??


----------



## wquiles (Sep 29, 2006)

Anglepoise said:


> I love the fact that it has a warning built in for low voltage. Perfect for Li Ions
> and great to be able to wire it up to a small warning LED.
> Have I understood this correctly??


Yes, but you don't have to have a small warning LED connected. The new menu George provides gives you the ability to change/select, not only the trip point in volts, but also how you want to be told about the low voltage situation. I tested with the default of the LED flashing about once per second (or something like that - I don't recall exactly). My point is that the LED by itself can be used to warn you and you can make it very obvious or very low-key - with this new firmware "you" get to pick 

I am telling you, this new firmware for the nFlex and the MaxiFlex rocks!!!

Will


----------



## Anglepoise (Sep 29, 2006)

Will.
Thanks for the explanation. 
Got it now.


----------



## cmacclel (Sep 30, 2006)

Yee Haa!

Mac


----------



## georges80 (Sep 30, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex production board*

Hmm, what could this be?

Top (or is it bottom?) view:







Bottom (or is it top?) view:






 guess they've arrived in my hands. Programmed/tested one and it works so I guess I'll have a busy time getting more of them ready this w/end.

You can see the rectangular tinned area on the first picture, that's where a heatspreading tab can be soldered to keep the board cooler when run at high power levels.

cheers,
george.


----------



## wquiles (Sep 30, 2006)

Excellent. Good job George 

Will


----------



## NewBie (Sep 30, 2006)

Anyone run some efficiency curves on this converter at various LED drive currents yet?


----------



## Icarus (Sep 30, 2006)

Great news George!


----------



## georges80 (Sep 30, 2006)

NewBie said:


> Anyone run some efficiency curves on this converter at various LED drive currents yet?



I already answered this with some measurements earlier when you asked the same questions.

cheers,
george.


----------



## georges80 (Sep 30, 2006)

*Re: MaxFlex Prototype*

So, the good news is that I've programmed up the first 20 boards.

The bad news is that one of the part suppliers screwed up and supplied the wrong input/output capacitors to the assembly house. The right part numbers were ordered, but the wrong ones were shipped. 

The assembly house didn't catch the error but did notice the cap was physically larger that it should have been. Unfortunately they assumed it was the right cap and I'd messed up on the footprint and they went ahead an assembled the boards anyway.

So, I will remove/replace the caps to get 20 boards corrected and ready to ship to some folk. The assembly house will have to rework the rest of the boards and YELL at the distributor for supplying the wrong part.

I would leave the caps on there, except I have no idea what the supplier provided the assembly house and the size, voltage and composition of that cap is important and so I will replace them.

So, about 1 more week to get volume into my hands with the correct caps installed. At least the assembly house only sent me 2 panels to check out, so they have the rest in their hands to rework asap.

cheers,
george.


----------



## wquiles (Sep 30, 2006)

Still making great progress. Thanks much for th update George 

Will


----------



## nemul (Oct 1, 2006)

sexy!


----------



## lildave (Oct 1, 2006)

c4? can't wait much longer without my head exploding


----------



## dabiscake (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi George, I have some questions regarding the Maxflex manual v.1.10 from your site: it's mentioned at the top of the doc and in this initial post also that max current is configurable above 1000mA to 1200mA and 1400mA possibly.
In the Current Drive selection menu, you've only mentioned 4 clicks to cycle through from 350, 500, 750 and 1000mA. Are there supposed to be 2 more selections for 1200 and 1400mA or am I reading in the wrong section?
Also, I'm confused as to why there are 2 more Force modes in the UIF than in the UIP? I'm not familiar with the nFlex configuration, but does this just mean there are more intermediate brightness levels in the UIF, while having the same max current as the UIP, or rather that the UIF has those additional max current levels that I'm looking for (above 1000mA)?
I wanted to read the manual thoroughly first before actually hooking everything together. I'm really excited and can't hardly wait to see this puppy perform!
Thanks!


----------



## georges80 (Oct 17, 2006)

The manual has been updated - the PDF should say 1.11 as the version number. It has been updated to correct the # of current tables to include 1200 & 1400mA. 

You either have the old manual or you need to 'refresh' your browser cache.

UIF has 8 brightness levels while UIP has 5. That's why UIP has 5 force levels and UIF has 3 more...

The number of brightness levels (8 for UIF and 5 for UIP) is independent of the number of current tables. You select the current table you want and that sets the maximum current output, you select the UI you prefer (UIF or UIP) and then you have 8 or 5 levels between about 20mA to the maximum current you selected.

cheers,
george.


----------



## BentHeadTX (Oct 17, 2006)

Paypal sent! 
Thanks again for getting these boost current regulators out to us. My XR-E's need to be fed.


----------



## dabiscake (Oct 19, 2006)

Thanks George, makes more sense too me now.


----------



## georges80 (Oct 20, 2006)

Ok, not what you guys that have bought maxFlex drivers want to hear, but it appears there's a firmware bug or a hardware tweak I have to do. I've reproduced the failure on one of my test units and I plan to work on resolving the bug this w/end - been a crazy busy bunch of weeks at work (new chip back from fab) and by the time I get home I'm pretty well done for the evening.

The problem appears to show itself on the 700mA+ current ranges and causes the driver to turn itself off after a few seconds operation. On my setup it was with 2 Lux3's running from around 4.5V input and on the 700mA table. No big stress to the driver - and from cold it would switch off (occasionally) within a couple of seconds.

I'll update you guys when I resolve this issue over the w/end and then we can figure out how to get units upgraded.

Sorry for the hassle!

cheers,
george.


----------



## jar3ds (Oct 20, 2006)

phew... glad I didn't submit my order just yet :candle:


----------



## BentHeadTX (Oct 20, 2006)

Sorry to hear of your teething problems
The good side is your QC caught the problem before the product shipped. I have no qualms against waiting a little while longer and applaud your persistence on delivering a great product that works out of the box.


----------



## dabiscake (Oct 23, 2006)

Actually, the product shipped already... I have a Maxflex I've been prep'ing aroud for a mod. Glad I didn't wire the sucker and pot the whole thing yet!
I do not doubt any second though that George will find a way to fix the bug, and work with us who have gotten this first batch.

George, good luck and let us know what you find! :thumbsup:


----------



## georges80 (Oct 24, 2006)

dabiscake said:


> Actually, the product shipped already... I have a Maxflex I've been prep'ing aroud for a mod. Glad I didn't wire the sucker and pot the whole thing yet!
> I do not doubt any second though that George will find a way to fix the bug, and work with us who have gotten this first batch.
> 
> George, good luck and let us know what you find! :thumbsup:



Thanks! I've been working on the bug as much as I can. Work is still crazy busy due to new silicon and I'm in the lab debugging all day.

I have found a few clues to what is happening and it looks pretty certain that the drivers will need to come back to me for at least a firmware update and most likely a tweak to one or two components.

Unfortunately time is not on my side, since I will be heading to australia for a holiday in < 2weeks and will be returning the end of Nov. So, it looks to me that for folk that can't wait, that returning the drivers asap for a refund would be the best plan. Then I can get things fixed up and put the drivers back on the market in the early Dec timeframe.

I do understand that a few of the drivers have probably been potted into place and for those folk we'll work something out.

I've found that not all combinations of battery/driver will cause the problem. So some of the installations may not have exhibited the problem. Also, at 500mA output (or lower) the problem does not typically show itself either.

Anyhow, folk that want refunds etc please contact me directly (off-line) and I'll work things out with you.

The funny (or not so funny...) thing is that on most of my testing I was using multiple Luxeons as my test case, while most of the maxFlex problems appear to be the more minimum setups like a single LuxV or 2 Lux3's from a single li-ion or 4AA nimhs.

Lastly, sorry for the inconvenience. 

cheers,
george.


----------



## OddOne (Oct 26, 2006)

Awww...

And I have an upcoming project I'm acquiring parts for... 

oO


----------



## weedle256 (Dec 8, 2006)

Any updates on getting the MaxFlex fixed up?


----------



## Icarus (Dec 21, 2006)

Hi George, any updates on the MaxFlex? :wave:


----------



## London Lad (Dec 21, 2006)

What they said!


----------



## jar3ds (Dec 21, 2006)




----------



## georges80 (Dec 21, 2006)

Hi Guys.

I've tried a few things and I've isolated the fault to a particular area of the design. I have next week off, so other than xmas family duty I'll be able to dig into the problem.

I have changed a few components and that has allowed me to get closer to the fix. It is looking like the regulator for the uC is doing something strange in certain situations. I've got to determine exactly what is going wrong and then I can work out what needs to be changed/modified/altered to fix it.

Anyhow, I'll know a lot more in a week's time.

cheers,
george.


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## London Lad (Dec 21, 2006)

Cool, thanks


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## weedle256 (Dec 29, 2006)

Any news?


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## kenster (Dec 29, 2006)

Bought some drivers yesterday and Email from George said no MaxFlex yet. But the bFlex is back in stock.  I wish the dang bug would hurry up and show itself to George so he could squash it. Hehe!  


Ken




weedle256 said:


> Any news?


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## rscanady (Dec 29, 2006)

georges80 said:


> Thanks! I've been working on the bug as much as I can. Work is still crazy busy due to new silicon and I'm in the lab debugging all day.
> 
> I have found a few clues to what is happening and it looks pretty certain that the drivers will need to come back to me for at least a firmware update and most likely a tweak to one or two components.
> 
> ...




Hmm, I havent visited this thread in a while, and am glad that I did...

George,

I have two of the very early models that you sent to me and have noticed this problem at the 500mA output driving 3 SWOH Lux I (Series) with a input voltage of ~ 5V (4 AA NiMH). When decreased down to 350mA, there are no problems though. I thought maybe there was a thermal shutdown or something going on, and had not really given it much thought until reading this thread.

Ryan


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## weedle256 (Dec 29, 2006)

George,
Mine has reached the point where all it does is flash. If I use 6 AA NiMh batteries I can adjust the level but it continues to flash. If I use 8 AA, I can't adjust the level at all.

If it helps, you can have the board back... I'd even be willing to drop it off at your house... 

PM me if you're interested.


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## Icarus (Jan 5, 2007)

Any news?


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## georges80 (Jan 5, 2007)

Icarus said:


> Any news?



I've determined it is the uC that is crashing and it appears related signal noise/power.

I'll be doing some major surgery on one of the boards this weekend to isolate the uC from the board so I can verify what is actually occurring.

Definitely a headscratching kinda bug!

cheers,
george.


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## Gnufsh (Jan 6, 2007)

Well, I'm eagerly awaiting this board. It sounds great, good luck fixing the problem.


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## Icarus (Jan 7, 2007)

Thanks George for the update. :candle:


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## weedle256 (Jan 15, 2007)

Any updates on getting the MaxFlex fixed up?


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## Pinter (Jan 17, 2007)

george, it would be nice if next version of MaxFlex have the Bike Light UI, like in bFlex.


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## jar3ds (Jan 17, 2007)




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## BentHeadTX (Jan 17, 2007)

Pinter said:


> george, it would be nice if next version of MaxFlex have the Bike Light UI, like in bFlex.



+1

Like the Bike UI of the bFlex so maybe...since the original is not out yet  While I wait for the MaxFlex, I am keeping an eye out for Q bin Crees since this biking season of darkness is getting brighter every day.


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## rantanplan (Jan 23, 2007)

Any news about our little patient ??


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## georges80 (Jan 23, 2007)

No news yet - been busy at work & with family the past while and maxFlex has sat and waited for me. It stares at me on my bench - so it isn't forgotten, just ignored.

Next week will be better for me and it'll get some attention.

Sorry for the delay.

cheers,
george.


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## wquiles (Jan 23, 2007)

Thanks George. Let me know how I can help 

Will


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## dabiscake (Feb 13, 2007)

BTTT! any news from George lately?


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## georges80 (Feb 13, 2007)

dabiscake said:


> BTTT! any news from George lately?



Not much. I've separated the uC core from the switcher core (two boards), but need some time to connect the two together and then run tests. I've been too busy at work, new chip has come back from fab and next week I'll be out of town.

Soon....

cheers,
george.


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## Mirage_Man (Feb 13, 2007)

georges80 said:


> Not much. I've separated the uC core from the switcher core (two boards), but need some time to connect the two together and then run tests. I've been too busy at work, new chip has come back from fab and next week I'll be out of town.
> 
> Soon....
> 
> ...


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## Mirage_Man (Feb 25, 2007)

Geroge, any news on these? I have like 4 lights waiting for these. :candle:


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## cmacclel (Feb 25, 2007)

Mirage_Man said:


> Geroge, any news on these? I have like 4 lights waiting for these. :candle:




Only 4 

Mac


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## Mirage_Man (Feb 25, 2007)

cmacclel said:


> Only 4
> 
> Mac



LOL. Right now yes. But they are very special lights at that.


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## Nitroz (Feb 25, 2007)

That's ok. I have 1, *VERY SPECIAL* light that needs a fatflex. 

Does this mean I will get one a little sooner because it is a special light? :laughing:


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## BentHeadTX (Feb 25, 2007)

Ahhhhh,
I have a light with no expense spared components waiting for a MaxFlex myself. HA-III bored 2D Mag, 8AA to 2D battery holder, UCL lens, McR19 aluminum reflectors, Kiu HA-III black strike bezel with glow dots and PXR copper heat sink to hold four XR-E LEDs. 
It sits on display on my desk at work, forlorn but not forgotton. It bristles with the greatest of CPF modders and craftsmen waiting for a MaxFlex and Q bin XR-E LEDs. The Pace soldering iron waits, the Artic Epoxy waits and eight Sanyo 2700 mAH NiMH cells are snuggled in the plastic box waiting to be utilized. 
The four months have passed and with it the darkest time of the year. L1D CE and L2D CE lights provide the lighting I require for the lighter times of the year so the project has been released from the time crunch to get done. 
I look forward to the day when I can marry my parts with a MaxFlex and Q bin Crees to see my first multi-LED mod take light. Just hope to see the final parts materilize before the summer solstice.  
Any news?


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## London Lad (Feb 25, 2007)

I still have this waiting to get the bugs ironed out of its Max-flex :naughty:


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## kenster (Feb 25, 2007)

LL, you just wanted to make me drool again from seeing that picture! I guess it`s OK! :rock: Send the light to me and I will put a driver in it!


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## London Lad (Feb 25, 2007)

Ken, PM me your address and I'll send her over to live with you if you like. You can send me something in exchange, I'll leave it to you to decide what. :buddies:


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## boef800 (Feb 25, 2007)

uiuiui....I hope the maxflex will come alive.I've got two planned magmods waiting for which I had from the beginning the maxflex in mind,but after all this months I fear we might not see it ever?

alex


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## Timson (Mar 2, 2007)

There's no further info forthcoming from the Taskled forum either.

Same as many of you guys I am eagerly awaiting 4 x Q2 Cree's and the 'Maxflex'.

I get the impression that George is having real problems straightening out the bug and may have to resort to making this driver a fixed current version without the UI.
I sure hope that isn't the case.


Tim.


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## DFiorentino (Mar 2, 2007)

This is the latest I've heard. 

http://taskled.com/forum/index.php?topic=43.0

-DF


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## BentHeadTX (Mar 2, 2007)




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## Mirage_Man (Mar 2, 2007)

BentHeadTX said:


>



My sentiments exactly.


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## wquiles (Mar 2, 2007)

I also have about 4 lights pending, 3 of which already have a soldered and potted converter in them, but I am 100% sure George will come through and get this resolved 

Will


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## georges80 (Mar 2, 2007)

wquiles said:


> I also have about 4 lights pending, 3 of which already have a soldered and potted converter in them, but I am 100% sure George will come through and get this resolved
> 
> Will



Yes, I will get it resolved. The issue right now is there's been a rush of orders the past while and between work and taking care of orders I haven't had the time to get solildly into the debug. Add to that some custom design work for a few large (non-CPF) customers and time has been tight.

Anyhow, I have a large (relatively) number of finished maxFlex boards that cost $$ waiting for me to find the root cause of the fault which is pretty good incentive (besides the folk that bought early boards or have lights waiting for them).

cheers,
george.


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## rantanplan (Mar 2, 2007)

Well, what a race between the mag-modders most awaited items ... AWs "C" LiIons and the MaxFlex. Obviously, the LiIons are in front at the moment ... hadn´t believed that this could happen . 

Go, George, Go !!! :thumbsup:

I´m waiting too, but my MaxFlex from last year does work sufficent enough to bridge the waiting time  ...


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## London Lad (Mar 2, 2007)

rantanplan said:


> Well, what a race between the mag-modders most awaited items ... AWs "C" LiIons and the MaxFlex. Obviously, the LiIons are in front at the moment ... hadn´t believed that this could happen .
> 
> Go, George, Go !!! :thumbsup:
> 
> I´m waiting too, but my MaxFlex from last year does work sufficent enough to bridge the waiting time  ...



To be fair so does mine


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## BentHeadTX (Mar 22, 2007)

The Q bin XRE's are becoming available!  

Any news on the FatFlex/MaxFlex? I am moving across the pond and my stuff ships out in May... just wanted to get the light done by June so when I leave, I can take it on vacation with me.


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## lasercrazy (Mar 22, 2007)

Updates?


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## aosty (Mar 22, 2007)




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## weedle256 (Mar 27, 2007)




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## rantanplan (Apr 11, 2007)

...


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## BentHeadTX (Apr 11, 2007)

????????????????


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## audioman (Apr 11, 2007)

:thinking:


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## zelda (Jun 1, 2007)

any updates?


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## georges80 (Jun 1, 2007)

Yes, been way too long on this project and it has been pushed below my radar by a bunch of custom design orders (non-flashlight - eek...) and my 'real' job.

I've just about come to the end of the other designs and WILL free up in a week. I will then get back onto the maxFlex debug.

The bug is on the weird side, since I have sold (quietly) quite a few drivers to folk that have battery/LED configurations that work reliably. There are some operating combos that exhibit the bug and fortunately I have a setup that fails pretty consistently so that will allow me isolate the cause of the bug.

cheers,
george.


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## wquiles (Jun 1, 2007)

Thanks for the update George 

I am at the ready if/when I can be of assistance on my bench 

Will


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## BentHeadTX (Jun 1, 2007)

Keep us posted on the progress
I am moving in a few weeks so my address will be changing; when it comes time to ship the MaxFlex I'll have to send you my new address. 
Thanks for the update


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## Christoph (Aug 1, 2007)




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## rantanplan (Aug 28, 2007)

... :thinking:


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## BentHeadTX (Aug 28, 2007)

zzzzzzz ????? 
Will they be ready by October?  Once I hit the year point, I start getting a little impatient.


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## Mirage_Man (Aug 28, 2007)

Count me as another that is anxious to get these bad boys ready for prime time.


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## georges80 (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: maxFlex*

Ok, been a long time that I've been trying to get enough time to get back into debugging the crashing situation on maxFlex.

Finally this weekend I got some time (between projects) to go and revisit the situation. With a fresh mind and some new ideas I have finally cracked the nut.

The issue is in the layout (ground plane) and the place I was bypassing the uController. The design is correct, it's the layout that was causing the problems.

The solution is basically cutting the ground plane at one point (easy cut), removing the bypass capacitor from its current location and soldering a new one directly across the power pins of the uC. Funny thing is that I originally added more bypassing and that made things worse - as it turns out that was coupling more ground bounce on the uC power pin making things actually worse.

Anyhow, it's looking good on the bench. I've got some more testing to do, to ensure everything is solid, but at this point what was failing reliably (immediately on power up) is now rock solid, even with 2A at the input.

Sorry for the long delay, but what turns out to be an easy fix was tricky to narrow down.

cheers,
george.


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## Mirage_Man (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: maxFlex*



georges80 said:


> Ok, been a long time that I've been trying to get enough time to get back into debugging the crashing situation on maxFlex.
> 
> Finally this weekend I got some time (between projects) to go and revisit the situation. With a fresh mind and some new ideas I have finally cracked the nut.
> 
> ...



Woo Hoo! Great news George.I have a project right now that I could use this on. How long before we might be able to get some in our hands??


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## rantanplan (Sep 30, 2007)

*Re: maxFlex*



Mirage_Man said:


> Woo Hoo! Great news George.I have a project right now that I could use this on. How long before we might be able to get some in our hands??



exactly my thoughts  ... 

The worst moments (while modding lights  ) during the last months had to do something with my "one and only, partly working" MaxFlex ... every time it didn´t light up, strong emotions were triggered: "Noooooooo ..."


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## flex76italy (Sep 30, 2007)

...only thanks to my deep prayers  .....no solo grazie a Giorgio :thumbsup:

Well done George!


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## georges80 (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks guys!

I will do more tests over the next couple of days - but given I made a totally failing configuration rock solid I'm pretty convinced I've isolated the cause of the failure.

I'll keep this thread updated over the next couple of days as I continue testing various operating combinations and if all goes to plan I should be able to re-release maxFlex by next week.

cheers,
george.


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## BentHeadTX (Sep 30, 2007)

WOOHOO!!!!  

The MaxFlex is baaaaaack! Great news so I can press on with my 9.6V Mag project. Thanks for the update and let us know when it starts to ship.


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## Mirage_Man (Sep 30, 2007)

georges80 said:


> if all goes to plan I should be able to re-release maxFlex by next week.



:twothumbs


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## Sway (Sep 30, 2007)

JUST AWESOME MAN! 

Kelly


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## bluecrow76 (Sep 30, 2007)

Okay, this may sound bad, but I was in church and got a little bored with the lesson :sleepy:, so I browsed on over to CPF (thank you Cingular) and what do I find... George has solved the elusive maxflex problem! Talk about an hallelujah moment! :bow: Looking forward to placing an order! I have two quad mag projects sitting here waiting on them!


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## London Lad (Sep 30, 2007)

That's great news George. Will I be able to update the one I have? (I have workshop facilitys)


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## georges80 (Sep 30, 2007)

London Lad said:


> That's great news George. Will I be able to update the one I have? (I have workshop facilitys)



Yeah, if you have access to caps and can solder/desolder small components then it should be possible to rework your own driver.

After more testing, it appears that the ground ring doesn't need to be cut. I had cut it during the initial debug and that made things worse with C7 in place - actually really bad - which was actually good since it gave a solid failure to track down. After C7 was removed and a cap soldered directly over U3 (see below), I resoldered the ground ring/plane back and it is still running solid.

So it would seem that the rework will involve removing C7 and soldering a 1 uF cap (X7R preferably) across Pin 4 to Pin 8 of U3 (a leaded capacitor either radial or axial). A radial may be better since it would sit flush over the top of U3.

cheers,
george.


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## kenster (Sep 30, 2007)

Yup, I thought that C7 u2 solder thingy needed some planing to pin that sucker to the ground and......  I`ll just buy some MaxFlex when you have them a :rock: for us, please? 

Like everyone else, I am extremely happy to hear this MaxFlex news update! :twothumbs


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## Nebula (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm with Kenster. I have no idea what George said but I sense that the fix is in :thinking:. Mod on :twothumbs.


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## Christoph (Sep 30, 2007)




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## Ledean (Oct 1, 2007)

bluecrow76 said:


> Okay, this may sound bad, but I was in church and got a little bored with the lesson :sleepy:, so I browsed on over to CPF (thank you Cingular) and what do I find... George has solved the elusive maxflex problem! Talk about an hallelujah moment! :bow: Looking forward to placing an order! I have two quad mag projects sitting here waiting on them!



Browsing in Church ?. Hav'nt heard that one before.


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## Icarus (Oct 1, 2007)

Fantastic news George!  ... :twothumbs


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## tino_ale (Oct 2, 2007)

So... if one wants to buy a FatFlex board now, do we directly get a debugged and solid working board or does it need reworking by the buyer?

Sorry just little confused :shrug:


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## georges80 (Oct 3, 2007)

tino_ale said:


> So... if one wants to buy a FatFlex board now, do we directly get a debugged and solid working board or does it need reworking by the buyer?
> 
> Sorry just little confused :shrug:



The boards will be reworked and tested prior to shipping.

The reason I explained what the rework entails (at this point) is that one poster requested information about whether it would be possible for him to rework his own board.

cheers,
george.


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## dom (Oct 3, 2007)

Excellent news George

These will be flying out the door -can i book 10?

Cheers
Dom


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## Unforgiven (Oct 3, 2007)

Thread continues here.


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