# Stun Guns Anybody ?



## chefwong (Nov 29, 2004)

I'm looking to get a *pratical gift* for my GF this year. I know shes always wanted one.

Anyone know of any good models, links, etc that you can recommend.


I know they work ? Back in *the days* a buddy of mine bought one for his wife. He tried it out himself and was knocked out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## PhilElmore (Nov 29, 2004)

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but "stun guns" -- the type that are handheld transformers run on 9-volt batteries, at least -- are really not terribly practical or effective. She'd be better off with a chemical spray (and I'm not a big fan of those).


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## Robocop (Nov 30, 2004)

If you do consider chemical spray I can recommend the Freeze+P brand as this is what I carry as issued by my Dept.It is fairly effective and packs a punch however it is usually hard to find for civilian use.Fox Labs also makes some decent spray.As far as stun guns go the handhelds with the prongs are not always reliable.I have limited experience with these that run on a 9 volt battery however have seen them fail to stop an attacker several times.The newer versions of the ones we carry are the type that look like an actual handgun known as the X-26.The reason we chose to use these is that it actually fires a set of prongs that will spread apart when fired.We have found that when the "charge" is spread out it works very well as compared to the limited coverage area of the handheld ones with fixed contact points.The X-26 can be costly and she may not be able to manipulate the controls as these are mostly used for law enforcement however can be had by civilians.I have been shot with one as we had to do so in order to carry one and I can tell you that I have never seen one fail...it knocked me down like a baby and I am not a small man.I suppose anything is better than nothing and I really cant be much help on the smaller units that use a single 9 volt battery.If you are willing to spend the cash you cant go wrong with the X-26 as it is very small...has a built in laser sight...and even 2 LEDs on the front for low light operation.I am not sure of the cost of the unit nor of the cost for the actual projectile cartridges but I do know they are high.There is also a less costly version that is much larger but just as effective known as the M-26.Good luck on your search and if you need anything else let me know...oh and welcome to CPF...hang on to your wallet as membership here seems to make you want to spend all your money on cool toys...good luck


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## cy (Nov 30, 2004)

chefwong, welcome to cpf and like robo pointed out "hold on to your wallet"


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## Frangible (Nov 30, 2004)

A "stun" gun just produces pain, you have to hold it against someone quite a while to disable their limb, or knock them out. The reason they're so effective when people use them on themselves is they hold them a while, then their fingers/hand are disabled so they can't turn it off.

The "air taser" as the above poster notes has a much better success rate, but those are heavy and handgun sized, and single shot only I think.

Pepper spray causes pain but will not reliably stop anyone, especially if they're on drugs/alcohol. Police regularily get hit with it in training, and they still are able to function.

You could of course, just get a real handgun -- such as a small, pocket-size Kel-Tec P32, P3AT, P11, or Kahr PM9 or something. Firearms are of course, incredibly lethal, but can only be used when your life is threatened with a deadly weapon, and you can only get a permit for carrying one in some states.

I personally carry Foxlabs pepper spray and a Kel-Tec P32 (which I should upgrade someday to a bigger caliber... but hey). The pepper spray is for resolving non-lethal conflicts, and the handgun, lethal ones. I doubt I'll need either, but I've never needed the seatbelt in my car, either.

IMO, pepper spray, stun guns etc are for different threat levels than a handgun. They will not stop a determined attacker with a deadly weapon. On the other hand, though, you cannot use a handgun in situations you could use pepper spray... such as a drunken guy much bigger than you being the aggressor in a fight.


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## Joe Talmadge (Nov 30, 2004)

In agreement with the above ... a stun gun is a bad idea, ineffective and unreliable. I'd go for almost anything else: chemical spray, taser, etc.

Joe


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## cobb (Nov 30, 2004)

I knew a guy who asked the same question and bought one that sounded like it was like a cattle prog. It uses aa cells. Anyway, he tested on him self to see how efective it was and found himself on the floor with it in his hand and his under ware was soiled. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## daloosh (Nov 30, 2004)

Hey chefwong, welcome to CPF and why dontcha stay awhile! You too, PhilElmore, nice to see ya here, like your work!

Tasers and handguns are quite expensive, as well as sheeple unfriendly, not to mention illegal here in NYC. My wife wouldn't carry either anyhow, no matter where we lived, but she has the small foxlabs pepper spray in her purse.

As has been mentioned, there is a lot of ink about the ineffectiveness of stunguns. Pepper spray is probably a better tool to use, as well as lighter and cheaper, too.

daloosh


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## wasabe64 (Nov 30, 2004)

The problem with most stun-guns is that the assailant has to be almost on top of you before you can use it (well within the sweep of his/her arms). 

The best protection is still removing yourself from the situation ASAP. Any device for self-defence should help you accomplish that, rather than increasing your risk and delaying your departure. OC sprays would be a better choice since it does not require you to actually touch your assailant.


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## Frangible (Nov 30, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
The best protection is still removing yourself from the situation ASAP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. Despite the fact I am armed, that is the option I have ALWAYS used. I have always apologized, walked away, etc. However, I also recognize that sometimes I may not have that option.

No matter how justified you are in defending yourself, you're still probably going to get sued / brought to court / charged etc which will cost tons of money, so it's best only as a last resort.

As the saying goes, better tried by twelve than carried by six, but best yet is neither /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## ACMarina (Nov 30, 2004)

My brother REALLY, REALLY wanted one, so I got him a stun gun a while ago. It's kinda intimidating to watch it arc, I guess, but through some "testing" I've found them to be less than enough to stop me, an I'm not very tough. .


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## gorn (Nov 30, 2004)

I've found stun guns to be very effective....

On me when i'm holding them. 

I would go with pepper spray before i'd carry a stun gun.


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## wasabe64 (Nov 30, 2004)

Hey Frangible, I hear what you're saying. Sometimes it can't be helped, in that case, it falls to luck and training.

Also a good point about the ensuing investigation and possible legal action.


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## Charlie Fox (Nov 30, 2004)

In the 80's the department I worked for experimented with Stun Guns and found the problem to be one had to make physical contact with the "stun-nee". Needless to say there are far more effective tools if this is necessary. I did just go through the Taser M26 traing and found this unit INCREDIBLY EFFECTIVE! (Read that OUCH! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif) However, the M26 is the size of a small pistol, has one shot and costs about $400. Explore other options, including classes on "Don't Be a Victim". They'll be much more worth it!


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## turbodog (Nov 30, 2004)

knife

as effective as a gun, but cheaper

and silent

stab them and walk away


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## Unicorn (Nov 30, 2004)

A stun gun takes rom 3 to 5 seconds to take ful effect. That means the muscles have used up all the glucose and are basically exhausted. The best thing about them is that they are a decent deterent, most people are scared of electricty. The Air Taser is quite a bit more effective. Around 80+% IIRC. OC (or pepper) spray is the best bet. Not too many people are actually able to function when hit with a decent brand. Don't go for the streams. For most purposes, a coarse fog is the best. Heavy enough to not be blown about by a slight breeze, but still able to be inhaled to get the respitory affects. The foam is good if it's expected that it will be used indoors, best for deputies in courthouses. The key though, is finding a good brand. Skip the crap that just advertises it's percentages. They mean almost nothing. Those have more to do with how long it might affect a person that how strong it is. Wht you want is a high Scoville Heat Unit or SHU rating. At least 2 million. Fox is around 5.3 million I think. A five percent formula will be enough for you to defend yourself. 2 million SHU at 5% is much better than 500,000 at 15%. And Fox's 5.3 million at even 2% is prety darn efective. BTW bear repellants are rated differently using a formula developed by the EPA to get rid of all the marketing hype.


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## Joe Talmadge (Nov 30, 2004)

All the great Taser reports are based on the police model, which seems to be significantly higher-powered. Is there _any_ report or study of the effectiveness of the civilian model? For all we know, it's much less effective, and we're all going around recommending it based on its police-restricted sibling.


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## cobb (Nov 30, 2004)

I think running is the best bet. As long as they are in control, your in deep trouble. Knifing, stunning, peppering, etc would likey lead you to length law suits as most criminals have rights too. You are likely to let your testrone get in the way and seek revenge. Remember, you can only use reasonible force during an attack, when they turn their back or run, games over you before the attacker than the victim.

Ive never had any problems, but I have backed over a guy and another I played like I was mentally retarded. I do carry a tool knife for opening packages and considerd using it on loose dogs that may attack me. I cant run and assumed my best bet would be to run them over or knife em. So far, never had to deal with that either.


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## Lightbringer (Nov 30, 2004)

Knife is a good idea...just i don't think its a good visual deterrent. wat bout an expandable baton...an asp dura-tec isn't heavy duty for uniform use...but light enuf to keep on you...whippin it out and yielding it like a bat might make of an impression then a small folder


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## Unicorn (Dec 1, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Joe Talmadge said:*
All the great Taser reports are based on the police model, which seems to be significantly higher-powered. Is there _any_ report or study of the effectiveness of the civilian model? For all we know, it's much less effective, and we're all going around recommending it based on its police-restricted sibling. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to work in a police equipment store and sold the original Air Taser. This was before the police only models (the X-26 or whatever) was ever created. They were being used by police then, since it was the only choice. This is the one that claimed an 86% effectiveness rating. The Air taser had been around for quite a while. The newer police only models have only been around or about 4 years or so.

We had a couple videos we'd show. The first was the ad one made by the company with some testimonials from police and detectives who used it, but mostly it showed that it would knock a person out/down without harming the. Volunters, and one of the creators were hit with it repeatedly ith no problem. Actually the creator, and one of the owners of the company, was shown being hit many times. The other video we had was home made by somone who was willing to let himself get hit. He went down prety quickly.


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## Floating Spots (Dec 1, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Joe Talmadge said:*
All the great Taser reports are based on the police model, which seems to be significantly higher-powered. Is there _any_ report or study of the effectiveness of the civilian model? For all we know, it's much less effective, and we're all going around recommending it based on its police-restricted sibling. 

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a civilian version of the X26 called the X26C. It’s the same internals as the police model. The main differences are that it has shorter leads and different programming. The police model is good to 21 feet, the civilian to 15 feet. The programming is geared towards defense use also. As I understand it, in the police model, the ride is short and the trigger has to stay depressed. The civilian model allows for a much longer stun time without holding the trigger. The point being, start a cycle and run. By the time it stops, you should be clear. And I think that Taser will replace it for free if used in defense.


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## Zackerty (Dec 1, 2004)

Before carrying a Taser and the like, read this...

http://www.rense.com/general60/sspp.htm

I know one's conscience will be numbed when a Goblin tries to end you or your loved one's life, and you "stop" him in his tracks. 
Just remember "pre-meditation", when Mr Plod questions you, as you and him stand next to the Goblin's lifeless body!! 
This world is upside down, and you "the victim", become you "the criminal."

I am sure Phil Elmore could educate you all as to what
is going on in the streets of a dark dark world. As if we did not already know, hey?


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## ErickThakrar (Dec 1, 2004)

ok, that was quite possibly one of the most idiotic articles I've ever read. I'm no fan of the taser, but you can take just about everything that that page says about how tasers work and throw it right out the window! Total nonsense.


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## Joe Talmadge (Dec 1, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Floating Spots said:*
There is a civilian version of the X26 called the X26C. It&#8217;s the same internals as the police model. The main differences are that it has shorter leads and different programming. The police model is good to 21 feet, the civilian to 15 feet. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, I stand corrected. I thought Taser was just offering the M18 model to civilians -- that one is the one I thought was lower-powered (pretty sure it is). X26C seems to be as you described, same power as the police model but with some other differences.

Joe


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## Unicorn (Dec 2, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*ErickThakrar said:*
ok, that was quite possibly one of the most idiotic articles I've ever read. I'm no fan of the taser, but you can take just about everything that that page says about how tasers work and throw it right out the window! Total nonsense. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I've known some people, including myself hit with stun guns at anywere from 50,000 to the higher powered 150,000 volt models with no problems. Well nothing beyond soreness, or an ache for a couple hours. When police departments were testing the Taser, many would shock volunteers to see how well they worked. Sure there could be someone with an already bad heart, but they could die just as easily (and I think that some have) from an application of OC spray, or being hit with a baton. The Taser was tested on cardiac material, to include pacemakers with no ill effects (at least according to the maker, so take with a grain of salt).

I just looked at the rest of that site. The guy is another of those babbling about overnment conspiracies to hide things like UFO's, the whole chemtrails thing again, the Pentagon plan to take over NASA.


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## Zackerty (Dec 2, 2004)

Okay,okay,okay...

I have taken my Desert Eagle .50 AE and shot myself in my foot 7 times! And my other foot is wedged in my mouth!

The article in question from Rense, was given to me by someone I have just starting working with, and it turns out he is somewhat of a "JFK and Princess Diana are living together, with Elvis holding the Video camera" type of guy. I have now read other articles in the site, and boy are they wacko!

I retract what I posted, EXCEPT for the "victim" becoming "criminals " scenario. 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


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## Lightmeup (Dec 3, 2004)

Has anybody ever had any experience or know anything about these "Myotron" stun guns? They are fairly expensive, and claim to work differently than the usual stun device. Just wondering if they are really any different, or if it's just a marketing come-on.
http://www.securityplanet.com/mcm32.htm


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## Sigman (Dec 3, 2004)

Anyone know anything about the Nova "Spirit" XR-5000? I thought this was at one time the "official" model carried by LEOs? Well, I bought one years ago and it's just been sitting in my gun safe, needs a new battery of course.

I don't know why I bought it, "less than lethal force" while delivering papers at night years past I guess.

Any LEOs/Security folks know of the brand/model?


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## Joe Talmadge (Dec 3, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*lightmeup said:*
Has anybody ever had any experience or know anything about these "Myotron" stun guns? They are fairly expensive, and claim to work differently than the usual stun device. Just wondering if they are really any different, or if it's just a marketing come-on.
http://www.securityplanet.com/mcm32.htm 

[/ QUOTE ]

Useless junk, like the rest. In the past, there have been a few people who have tried them. Don't remember where I saw it last reviewed, but no one has tried it for the past few years, since they seem to have been totally debunked.


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## Joe Talmadge (Dec 3, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Sigman said:*
Anyone know anything about the Nova "Spirit" XR-5000? I thought this was at one time the "official" model carried by LEOs? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No first-hand experience, thought I can tell you for certain there is no country-wide official stun gun. Could be that some department or other tried it, at one time. Currently, the Taser is the only thing I know of where there's consensus that it seems to work, most of the time. Sig, slap some new batteries in there and try it on yourself, that's what I'd do if I had questions. 

Joe


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## kubolaw (Dec 3, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Joe Talmadge said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*lightmeup said:*
Has anybody ever had any experience or know anything about these "Myotron" stun guns? They are fairly expensive, and claim to work differently than the usual stun device. Just wondering if they are really any different, or if it's just a marketing come-on.
http://www.securityplanet.com/mcm32.htm 

[/ QUOTE ]

Useless junk, like the rest. In the past, there have been a few people who have tried them. Don't remember where I saw it last reviewed, but no one has tried it for the past few years, since they seem to have been totally debunked. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, for the sake of science I'll 'fess up and admit that I had one of these Myotron gizmos several years ago. I think what swayed me was some DoD or other official-sounding agency report that said that the particular charging pattern used by the device was more effective than the usual stun gun effect. After I had it for about 6 months, of course my curiosity got the best of me, and since my roommate wouldn't let me test it out on him, I finally tried it on myself. First I used it on my thigh while I was wearing jeans (didn't know what to expect at that point). Press the button, crackle crackle sound, do a quick jab into my thigh and ... nothing. All I felt was the pressure from the tips. So I held it against my thigh for longer. I thought I could feel something, but it was still very weak. So, emboldened, I changed into shorts and tried it directly against my skin. I could feel the electric shocks, but it wasn't really anything close to disabling. It sort of stung a little bit, sort of like hitting yourself with a relatively light wooden dowel. Annoying and irritating, but certainly not capable of stopping any kind of determined attacker. Probably much more effective to clock someone on the head with it. Maybe mine was defective, but it sounds like others have had similar results.

John


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## Sigman (Dec 3, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Joe Talmadge said:*Sig, slap some new batteries in there and try it on yourself, that's what I'd do if I had questions. 

Joe 

[/ QUOTE ]
--------------------
Oh I did that years ago! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I held it in my left hand with thumb & index finger as close as I could get without touching the probes. With the right index finger I performed a "microsecond tap" on the switch...WOW ----> Did I say "WOW"?

Voltage went from my hand all the way up to my chin "like yesterday"...so fast and certainly noticeable. Now keep in mind that was like a "microsecond"...they say in actual use to hold it against the subject for 5 seconds.

I will not try that on myself! No way! No, No No!!!


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## Joe Talmadge (Dec 3, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
I will not try that on myself! No way! No, No No!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, we'll compromise. You hand it to me, and I'll try it on you instead

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Joe


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## Robocop (Dec 12, 2004)

The Police Model smaller version(X-26)cycles for 5 seconds after the trigger is pulled.It then stops however can be activated again with another pull of the trigger and goes for another 5 seconds.This can be repeated for several times however once is almost always enough.
I do think the civilian version has a different cycle rate and do not know about the actual output.I will honestly say that I have never seen anyone be able to function with these prongs attatched correctly.If used correctly I can almost guarantee that this will be effective.I watched it knock down every officer hit with it,including myself,and I am not a little man and some of my co-workers are hulking animals and all were humbled quickly.
I have noticed many in this thread seem to worry about lawsuits or liability of using something like this product.I can understand however I can tell you first hand that when it comes to my life I could care less about liability or lawsuit.I think this is what is wrong with many sections of law enforcement as well as personal protection.Many seem to worry about the civil part or the fact that a weapon may be cruel or dangerous.Well that is the entire point is that it is for self defense and is supposed to save your life.I personally will act first and worry about the rest later if my life is in danger.
Regardless of all that I feel this is an incredible tool and it has saved me and many criminals from physical harm many times.
Also the ones we carry are not really a single shot.There is an area to attatch a spare cartridge on the bottom of the hand grip and acts almost like a grip extension.Once fired you can quickly change a cartridge for another shot.I had to be trained on this and if done correctly you can actually get a shot off very fast.
Anyway hate to did up an old thread however I was just searching old posts and came across this one.


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## mrorange (Dec 14, 2004)

Well... I thought I would chime in here as I'm my departments Taser instructor. The X26C is the same as the police model X26 except for the duration of the shock. Both guns use 5 watts of power(versus 26 watts for the M26 and 18 watts for the civilian M18), and both guns put out 50,000 volts, and far below 1 amp of power. Where the police X26 is designed to shock for 5 seconds when you pull the trigger (though you can just hold the trigger down and shock continuously for up to something like 130 seconds..)the civilian X26C is designed to go through a 60 second cycle. The much longer cycle is designed to give civilians a chance to run away from the threat....though at approximately $900.00 each for the X26C, I'm not sure I would be so quick to leave it. The only reason the X26C has a 15 foot range and the X26 has a 21 foot range is because of the length of the wires contained in the cartridges, if you could find/buy some police spec 21 foot cartridges, then you could use them on the X26C. Having taken the full 5 second hits from both the older M26 and the newer X26, I can honestly say they hurt.... A LOT. If used correctly and everything goes right they are extremely effective, if your willing to spend the money, I would rate the taser as more effective than pepper spray...


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## cobb (Dec 18, 2004)

I was picturing in my head the wild west all over again with guys carrying tasers, tasering each other grabbing their booty just to be tasered by someone else down the street and have their stolen booty stolen from them.


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## Floating Spots (Dec 21, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*mrorange said:*
The much longer cycle is designed to give civilians a chance to run away from the threat....though at approximately $900.00 each for the X26C, I'm not sure I would be so quick to leave it. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I would.
There is a free replacement policy.
The literature says that it will be replaced for free if a police report is filed documenting it use and loss.


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## yuandrew (Dec 26, 2004)

Anyone tried discharging a camera flash capicator through a transformer?

-Note, don't try this on yourself unless you want to get thrown across the room!


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## James S (Dec 26, 2004)

I would imagine that the insulation in the transformer windings would break down very quickly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## cobb (Dec 29, 2004)

I did one in my hand. Felt like I had hold of a buzzing bee. Stung too and left a burn mark. I tried to power a head light with it, no go. I then shorted the terminals and ((((BANG)))) a loud pop as I made a spark and slightly welded the thing to the light terminals.


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## guncollector (Dec 30, 2004)

Small Arms Review had a positive review of both the M-18 and the M-26 models in their Oct. 2002 issue (note: the compact form-factor X-26 model didn't come out until later).

The M-18 is the 18-Watt version, the M-26/X-26 are 26-Watt versions. Duh, right?

I, personally, have an M-18L (the laser-equipped version, the only version available to civilians at the time I bought it a year or two ago).

I have had the M-18 tested on myself (applied by a more-than-happy to try wife), and I can tell you that it is OUCH, and you will lose all muscular control (but not consciousness) for duration of the power-cycle. I started on my knees, and sofa cushions all around me. Ended up on my side on the cushions. It also left two nice little welts on my back. I don't wish to ever try the 26-Watt versions.

*One of the keys to any Taser is to use only the OEM RECHARGEABLE NI-MH BATTERIES! And to recharge them every 2-4 weeks!* Yes, this is a pain, but regular and even lithium batteries do not effect the same power-transfer to the receiving end of the prongs!

Those of you who are USN Suspect can do a search on this same subject, and many of the LEO members there, too, can vouch first-hand for the efficacy of the receiving end of a Taser.

Re-loading is not difficult, but time-consuming, and unlikely in the event of a confrontation with an intruder in your home. You basically get one-shot. Miss, and its essentially transition-to-pistol if that's your back-up, or hand-to-hand.

HTH!


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## guncollector (Dec 30, 2004)

Here's info on battery-selection straight from the Taser International website:

*WHAT IS THE REAL WORLD DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ALKALINE AND NIMH BATTERIES IN THE ADVANCED TASER? *
Fresh Duracell Ultra® or Energizer Titanium E2® batteries will provide a rate of 12-15 electrical pulses per second. Fully charged NiMH batteries provide a rate of 15-20 pulses per second. NiMH batteries give the strongest output, and perform much better in cold weather. However, undercharged batteries will cause weapon failure. Battery failures with rechargeable batteries in older TASERs have resulted in escalation of force because officers had to move up the use of force continuum. The recommended alkaline batteries have a stronger shelf life (4-6 years). Again, the selection of the battery is very important. The trade off is better pulse rate versus maintaining a fully charged set of NiMH batteries. 

*6. ALKALINE BATTERIES ARE 1.5 VOLTS AND THE NIMH BATTERIES ARE RATED AT 1.2 VOLTS, WHY THE DIFFERENCE? *
NiMH batteries are ideal substitutes for most high drain electronics. There is no need to worry about the apparent voltage differences. Even though alkaline batteries are rated at nominal 1.5 Volts, they only deliver 1.5 Volts when they are fresh. In fact, over the course of their discharge, alkaline batteries actually average about 1.2 Volts. The main difference is that an alkaline battery starts at 1.5 Volts and gradually drops to less than 1.0 Volts. NiMH batteries stay at about 1.2 Volts for most of their discharge cycle. 

HTH!


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## cobb (Dec 31, 2004)

Your explination sounds ok. Then you got those cops tasering cops for fun behind the jail on those hidden camera shows, braggin how they left the taser on so his friend "rode the lighting". Then those taser websites where they repeat, "Ill do what ever you want" after a suspect is tasered once if not a few times. Lastly, it just seems strange that shooting two probes into the skin of a person and running hundreds of thousands of volts across the two terminals is ok, where most house hold electronics warn of shock hazard and other things warn us of sharp edges. 

Maybe its just me?


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