# Cheap Ultrafire knives, any thoughts?



## kanarie (Jun 14, 2007)

Kai and DX are selling a series of nice looking Ultrafire "quality" hardened Knives for 5 bucks.
Has anyone tried one of these knives? 
What sort of steel is used? (something like 420 or better?)


https://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/SubCategory.aspx?TranID=8244&Name=6/13/2007-Knives
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4177


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## cutlerylover (Jun 14, 2007)

Even cheap knives that cost $5 sometiems use 440C or 420 stainless...but the heat treat is crappy...they will perform like a $5 knife...If you plan on using them for really light work like opening mail or taking a strign off your shirt they are fine, but anyhgin much more than that you woudl want somethgin better...There are hundreds of different brands in this quality range...Not worth the money in my opinion, its along the same lines as say buying a used car for $500...It might get you from point A to point B, but not nearly as confortable or realiable as a $5000 used car...in most cases anyway, ok maybe that was a poor comparison, lol? But you get what I am saying...


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## cutlerylover (Jun 14, 2007)

think fo it this way...compare an ultrafire flashlight to a surefire...sure it looks similar to the real thing, and it shines light just like a surefire, but the quality is not their, and the performance or the ultrfire can't compare...but its still a flashlight, just won't work as logn or as well...the only difference is if say the l;ock on an ultrfire knife fails you can get opretty hurt...alot worse than if a light goes out on you...So yes, its a knife, it will cut...but like I said can't expect too much from it for $5...thats all...


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## kanarie (Jun 15, 2007)

I will probably just buy one (most of the Ultrafire products I own are pretty OK). I know these knifes will not perform as good as for example a Benchmade.
But maybe as good as a regular CRKT. We will see...


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## carrot (Jun 15, 2007)

For only $20 you can have an excellent knife, your pick of anything from the Spyderco Byrd lineup. Not as good as the more expensive USA- and Japan-made Spydercos but still a very nice knife.


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## cutlerylover (Jun 15, 2007)

There are all kinds of knives, like I said...If you get one Im sure you will like it for $5...But you already know why...if it dissapoints you...


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## BIGIRON (Jun 15, 2007)

I keep a bunch of $5 gunshow knives scattered around -- tool boxes, truck, boat, etc. I can break'em, loose'em or loan them and not worry about damage to my "better" edc knife.


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## Russianesq (Jun 16, 2007)

the fenix store is selling the $5.00 knife for $10.00 
http://fenix-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=259


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## cutlerylover (Jun 16, 2007)

Russianesq said:


> the fenix store is selling the $5.00 knife for $10.00
> http://fenix-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=259


 
Well you have to factor in the cost of them putting the Fenix Name on it...and possibly an extra buck or 2 to make a profit on....


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## kanarie (Jun 16, 2007)

at least we know now the knives are made from 8Cr14MoV (about the same as AUS8 steel) and are 57 Rockwell
Like I said I ordered one just for testing (am curious how long the black paint will last)


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## cutlerylover (Jun 16, 2007)

I hate black coated blades because of the way they look when used...they look cool if its a display knife, but I just don't like it on users...


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## pactchncn (Jun 17, 2007)

With knives, you get what you pay for. I have also learned that it is not the type of steel but the heat treat that makes the edge holding difference.


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## cutlerylover (Jun 17, 2007)

good point, 440C for example is a decent steel with a good heat treat, but the same 440C comming out of chine for some $5 knife won't perform the same without that good heat treat...So yeah thats something to consider...The only thing is you ahve to go by other peoples word on what companies heat treat their knives properly...


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## eyeeatingfish (Jun 17, 2007)

Problem starts any time you put cheap in front of the word knife.
I wouldnt trust any knife that cost only 5 dollars, especially if it was a folder. My fingers are worth more than 5 dollars.

A more expensive will outlast, be sharper, stay sharper etc than a cheapo knife. You will go through so many 5 dollar cheapo knives that it would be more economical buying an expensive good knife. Either that or you learn your lesson the hard waywhen a cheapo 5 dollar knife breaks and cuts you.


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## northjames (Jun 17, 2007)

:thumbsdow Don't do it.

What the heck does "quality hardened" mean? As opposed to what?!? When I buy a knife I assume that it has been heat treated...

That's like going to a restaurant and ordering the "fully cooked chicken breast sandwich."

A purchase like this will come back to bite you, probably in the hand that was holding the damn thing when the lock fails.


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## kanarie (Jun 19, 2007)

I have got many many knives some cheap, some expensive, most midrange
I am just looking for some first hand experience with surefire knives.
They don't have to be survival knives but they must be ok for day-to-day (office/home) use just like for example a Swiss army knife
(thinking of buying a bunch as give away presents)
I just will try one myself and will give a follow up if I got any fingers left:twothumbs


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## vic2367 (Jun 20, 2007)

i wouldnt get that knife ,,,$ 5 ???


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## nerdgineer (Jun 20, 2007)

Since you are familiar with knives at verious price levels, you could take one for the team, get one, and let the rest of us know....


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## lightinsky (Jun 20, 2007)

Just picked up for $25.00 a CRKT Edgie self sharpening knife. Nice knife look it up on crkt.com or google it on cpf.


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## BIGIRON (Jun 20, 2007)

Just got one. It's a $5 knife. Light, fairly tight, almost shaving sharp. It's not substantial enought to be a toolbox knife. Desk or other light duty.

As far as being cut when a lock fails, if you, like me, grew up with slipjoints, then you don't put yourself in that situation.


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## eyeeatingfish (Jun 20, 2007)

Just spend the extra money and buy a decent knife by a real knife company with knife experience.


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## BIGIRON (Jun 21, 2007)

Karma tells us that everything and everybody has a place in the world. Even $5 knives and rabid bobcats.


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## GarageBoy (Jun 21, 2007)

Don't waste your $5..you REALLY want a good knife for cheap, KaBar Dozier, $15-20


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## greenstuffs (Jun 23, 2007)

Do a spine whack and if the blade doesn't close on you then its a good knife :thumbsup:


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## GarageBoy (Jun 23, 2007)

Err, there are locks that lock fine til you whack em. Then theres also edge retention, etc


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## cutlerylover (Jun 23, 2007)

greenstuffs said:


> Do a spine whack and if the blade doesn't close on you then its a good knife :thumbsup:


 
There are literally hundreds of thousands of VERY nice slipjoints out there, and all of them would fail the spine wack test...


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## eyeeatingfish (Jun 25, 2007)

BIGIRON said:


> Karma tells us that everything and everybody has a place in the world. Even $5 knives and rabid bobcats.



And the karma in the 5 dollar knife comes when it closes on your finger because you didnt buy good products from hard workers.


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## BIGIRON (Jun 25, 2007)

You just gotta be smarter than the knife.


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## greenstuffs (Jun 25, 2007)

eheh pretty tough test i guess :naughty: but thats the only way i will feel my fingers are safe. :kiss: i love my fingers more than money. I have had $5 knife's lock fail by stabbing cardboard. 



cutlerylover said:


> There are literally hundreds of thousands of VERY nice slipjoints out there, and all of them would fail the spine wack test...


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## GarageBoy (Jun 25, 2007)

People have had hundred dollar knives fail..and some cheaplock backs are pretty indestructable.


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## eyeeatingfish (Jun 25, 2007)

GarageBoy said:


> People have had hundred dollar knives fail..and some cheaplock backs are pretty indestructable.



That is far and few inbetween. Any good knife maker will replace or repair a factory fault in their knives.

$5 knives really have no place. There is really no reason to buy a $5 knife. You can buy a good $20 knife and its edge will last longer than 4 $5 knives.
All $5 knives do is cheapen the knife marketplace. They give people bad impressions of knives. If you want a $5 knife thats good, get a box cutter.


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## kanarie (Jun 27, 2007)

> $5 knives really have no place. There is really no reason to buy a $5 knife.


I totally DISagree: A $5 knife bought at the local store ;sure. 
But if you import a knife like this from the source without all the fat cats in between (did you know a $70 jeans cost $3-$5 to manufacture in China?) you can have a good knife for $5 !! 

I know this because I just received the Ultrafire 703a knife ...


I chose the two knives out of my collection to compare the Ultrafire with: a CRKT tighe tac (same model and size) and a CRKT Kiss (same lock principal) both are Asian made $30-$40 knifes.

The lock: I put on some gloves and did a lot of spine whacking with these three ladies : the kiss failed the Tigh tac and the Ultrafire did well.
On the slow opening test (put the locking mechan. on the edge an then try to close it) the kiss and the Ultrafire remained firm the tigh tac did not.
The lock of the Ultrafire and the Kiss both unlock as you squeeze the knife too tight from a wrong angle (the grip is the locking mechanism at the same time) this is a choice of knife design, not failure of the knife itself. It gives plenty of warning before it fails, but I still don't like it

The blade: The factory sharpening of the blade is good enough to shave.
even after a few meters of cardboard cutting. (did not do a real endurance test; I just like it too much)
The blade is pretty thin; 2mm (same as the tighe tac) and bends a bit (flexible) under pressure. This it a good thing; I like a knife which bends before it breaks.

The knife/design
The Ultrafire 's finish is excellent compared to the tighe tac and the Kiss. 
Fine details,no threads to see, round edges: Nice!
If there is any movement it is easy to fix with a turn of a torx-screw
There are two ways to open the knife with one hand: the classic thumbstud method and there is a flipper at the back of the the knife (a bit like the carson flipper with the CRKT M16 series) This is an extra safety (if the lock snaps the flipper will hit your finger before the blade does) and it also prevents your hand from slipping when prying/stabbing with this "naked " smooth knife. Both the kiss and the tigh tac have only minor (grooves)/non anti slipping measures. 
The grip is a bit thin and quite small/short for my hand and I almost have to leave my pink behind.
I still don't like the black paint; but even after dropping it on concrete a few times it is still undamaged

All in all I think this knife is a winner for everyone who needs a small, light pocket knife. Best of all it doesn't give you an idea of false security
For $30 bucks it is a pretty good knife if you like the design.
For $5.47 shipped it is a STEAL!


https://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=2277
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4205


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## cutlerylover (Jun 27, 2007)

here is the problem with cheap knives, most of the time the temper on the blades are poor, so sure they might feel good, and lock good, but the blade, you know the most important part of the knife...well it just doesn;t perform well...Even good steel needs to have a good temper to make it work good...Thats where these companies skimp out when they make cheap knives...The tempering process...Of course this is only my very vague opinion, lol, but I know there is some truth in it! For the most part cheap knives have cheap blades, not just the steel, but the process in which teh steel is heat treated for strength and durability!


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## kanarie (Jun 28, 2007)

I don't like the cheap knife = cheap steel theory
Even if they use higher quality steel the material cost will only be a few cents.
It is the grinding down to the right shape that is the most expensive part (and harder steel just takes more resources (longer grinding).

Furthermore a 420 or 440 steel blade will not break more easily it just will become duller sooner


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## TOOCOOL (Jun 28, 2007)

I got the Ultrafire 703 and think its great for the money :thumbsup:. First I shaved my leg  then I threw it in a tree maybe 50 times , followed by some whittling of a walking stick I'm making and lastly shaved my other leg (just a patch).
Its not a multi hundred dollar knife but if it was it would be on someones shelf :thumbsdow light, sharp, locks,nice balance, keeps its edge,nice clip all for $5 bucks not bad.
Would be better with a lanyard hole.


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## cutlerylover (Jun 28, 2007)

I think the problem is knife guys get caught up in whats really nice and expensive, and if someone mentions a knife thats under $10 its automatically crap...of course everyone has their own opinions on the subject, all I will say is, most of the time you get what you pay for...but it doesn't mean a $5 knife is crap, just not for everyone, or hard use...


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## eyeeatingfish (Jun 29, 2007)

When a company uses good steel, it aadvertises that fact. The website just says special type of hardened steel. 440 is good steel, 420 can be hardened to become a good/decent steel. This knide doesnt even advertise that kind.

Most steels can be sharpened to shaving sharp, but how long will the blade hold the edge?
Heat treating is not a simple cheap process. You have to heat a furnace to thousands of degrees, then quench and repeat, then temper it in a lower temperature oven. Producing all of this heat is not a cheap thing.
And even then heat treatment alone doesnt make a good blade, it has to be done properly, by someone with experience which means someone who needs to get paid more.
Bottom line is that even if they do heat treat their steels it doesnt mean the knife is good, or that the edge will last. They cut corners to make it cheaper and the only corner they dut isnt having it made in china.

I also dont see any mention of a warrantee.
The enlarged picture on the link rovided shows uneven grind lines.
Maybe it good quality for $5 but id rather spend that money on a good hamburger.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 29, 2007)

For $5, the quality described from those who've ordered one sounds good. Not "OMG TEH R0XX0R", but not bad at all.

Most of the "cheap" knives (like the Ultrafire ones) use liner locks, and if those aren't done well, they can easily fail. I have a bunch of 6-for-$20 knife sets, and a few of the knives in those sets have liner locks that don't even do anything. You can snap the knife open really hard, and it looks okay, but then you can reach behind the spine and close it, almost like the lock's not there. Those things are scary.

I carry three knives, all of different quality/price ranges, and all with different opening and locking methods, and not one of them is a liner lock. I'm not saying you should avoid any inexpensive knife or any liner lock just on principle, but please test out your knives' locking mechanisms (in a safe way) before use.


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## pokkuhlag (Jun 29, 2007)

I bought the 701A and have to agree with the owners. It's a nice knife to own, at 5 dollars, you can't go wrong with it (unlike some other I got from ebay). I bought it, cause I don't have to worry about losing a 50 dollar knife and it's small and pocketable. Of course the finish isn't as good as benchmade, but it cuts and that's good enough for me. I really like the little ball and indent in the frame lock and blade. It really secures the blade well when closed.


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## kanarie (Jun 29, 2007)

> When a company uses good steel, it aadvertises that fact. The website just says special type of hardened steel. 440 is good steel, 420 can be hardened to become a good/decent steel. This knide doesnt even advertise that kind.


Ok, they can use some marketing skills (but do you know the name of the glass used in the windshield of your car)




> Heat treating is not a simple cheap process. You have to heat a furnace to thousands of degrees, then quench and repeat, then temper it in a lower temperature oven. Producing all of this heat is not a cheap thing.
> And even then heat treatment alone doesnt make a good blade, it has to be done properly, by someone with experience which means someone who needs to get paid more.
> Bottom line is that even if they do heat treat their steels it doesnt mean the knife is good, or that the edge will last. They cut corners to make it cheaper and the only corner they dut isnt having it made in china



Yeah right, thats why a lot of quality manuf. have there factories in China and say it is made in the USA because the assembly happens in the US.

Btw. Heat treating IS rather simple If one uses an non-exotic kind of steel It is not an wisdom held by some mystical blacksmith. For example springsteel (witch have to meet a lot of the same criteria as steel for knifes.) Is also made all over the world...

The warranty is 3 month says the package (the shipment cost though, will be twice the price of the knife)


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## cutlerylover (Jun 29, 2007)

The only cheap knife company's I ever liked for the money is rough rider and steel warrior (made by frost cutlery)...I only bought 3 slipjoints from them, but for the money the quailty was suprisingly good....

Of course I am leaving out Opinel and a few others because even though they are cheap, the company is known for their quality...


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## eyeeatingfish (Jun 30, 2007)

pokkuhlag said:


> I bought the 701A and have to agree with the owners. It's a nice knife to own, at 5 dollars, you can't go wrong with it (unlike some other I got from ebay). I bought it, cause I don't have to worry about losing a 50 dollar knife and it's small and pocketable. Of course the finish isn't as good as benchmade, but it cuts and that's good enough for me. I really like the little ball and indent in the frame lock and blade. It really secures the blade well when closed.



And how long do you think the cheap steal will cut good enough for you?


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## eyeeatingfish (Jun 30, 2007)

kanarie said:


> Ok, they can use some marketing skills (but do you know the name of the glass used in the windshield of your car)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I dont know the type of glass in my car, but glass in the windshield really isnt a selling point of cars and, correct me if im wrong, windshield glass might even be regulated. They have industry standards to boot.
One of knives main selling points is the metal.

From what ive seen if its assembled in USA it will say aseembled, not made. Many good companies do have knives made in china. CRKT is good value for the money on china made knives. Benchmade and spyderco also have new lines being made in china. Not as good as the made in america knives but they are still good at a good price. Yes the knives are around 20-40 bucks but thats because the knives arent being produced for the lowest possible cost. They are still spending money on good steel and good heat treating, they are just saving money on labor and utility prices.

Good heat treating inst that complicated but its not that hard to screw up either. You can heat treat metal once for improved benefit and call it heat treated steel, or you can heat treat it multiple times for even better performance, then there is tempering. The more times you repeat these processes the better the performance in the steel and the more it will cost.
The companies selling 5 dollar knives probably just do this once just so they can say hardened steel. All in all you get a really cheap priced knife that wont perform on par. Sure, you figure youre only out 5 bucks but youll be out on a lot more if youre trusting your safety to that knife.


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## pokkuhlag (Jun 30, 2007)

I expect the knife to remain sharp for longer than the 1/10th time that of my benchmade. I don't expect it to perform like my bm, my life also doesn't depend on it. The life of packages do, if the knife is sharp, they will die sooner, if the knife is dull, their life is extended.


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## kanarie (Jul 4, 2007)

> CRKT is good value for the money on china made knives. Benchmade and spyderco also have new lines being made in china. Not as good as the made in america knives but they are still good at a good price. Yes the knives are around 20-40 bucks but thats because the knives arent being produced for the lowest possible cost.


That why the CRKT's failed some of the test I performed and the Ultrafire did not: right??!!



> The companies selling 5 dollar knives probably just do this once just so they can say hardened steel. All in all you get a really cheap priced knife that wont perform on par. Sure, you figure youre only out 5 bucks but youll be out on a lot more if youre trusting your safety to that knife.


You clearly did not read the positive reviews of the people who actually OWN the $5 Ultrafire knife....

I have ordered a few more and they also will be tested before use...


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## cutlerylover (Jul 4, 2007)

I think you mean ultrafire right? since surefire knives cost about $500, lol...anyway, its very possible you just got a good one, thats the thgin with these cheapos, its a crap shoot, sure some of them are ok, but the companies that make them are not cinsistant with quality, one may be great, and the next one made might be total crap...unlike the CRKT knives where its the other way around...maybe 99 out of 100 are good, but that one faisl the qaulity control test, and most of the time is not sold...

Its hard to defend cheap knives like this...and its hard to compoare them to better knives because like you said the crkt faile dthe lock test right? but the ultrafire did not...that does not mean they are better knives...I would consider that a fluke...but thats just my opinion...

If the knife works for you that great! I can honestly say your lucky to have gotten a good one! most people pay the extra money on other knives because they are buying the extra quality, and sometimes the gaurentee...I always say its better to buy 1 $100 knife that lasts 10 years or more, than to buy 100 $1 knives...know what I mean...

But I will say that the price of a knife does not always reflect the quality or the performance...


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## kanarie (Jul 4, 2007)

Yes you are right ; I meant Ultrafire (typo)
My experience is a budget knife from a respected company (like CRKT, Gerber)
is often as good/bad as a good cheap brand budget knife . only the price triples with the brand. It is not easy for a novice to distinct between a good buget knife or a bad one (often you can tell by the finish). The Ultrafire I've got is a good one.


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## cutlerylover (Jul 4, 2007)

I understand what you mean...Maybe iuts just personal preference but I would take a budget knife from acompany like Kershaw, gerber, CRKT, or others any day over a no name knife...even if the price difference is $20...for example, the photon copies are good for the money, but they just don't last that logn in my expereince, so I just use a real photon keychain light..I like to say this all the time..."ONLY TIME WILL TELL" and its true...right now it might be nice, but wait to see how logn it holds up...You might be pleasantly suprised, or maybe not?

My current EDC is an old gerber I love, a EZ-out...combo edge...Only cost me $12 from smokey mountain knife works, plus I got a free flashlight with it at the time...I love this knife, and If I lost it somehow I wouldn't be as mad as if it were a more expensive knife...So every now and then I will use cheaper knives, but I still prefer name brands...


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## camdz (Jul 5, 2007)

carrot said:


> For only $20 you can have an excellent knife, your pick of anything from the Spyderco Byrd lineup. Not as good as the more expensive USA- and Japan-made Spydercos but still a very nice knife.


Couldnt agree more. I waited forever to finally give in on these knives. Picked up a Byrd Meadowlark in G10. Amazing quality and VERY sharp. I couldnt believe it was a $20 knife. I own a benchmade and a few kershaws but this Byrd knife has taken over as my EDC.


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## lukevsdarth (Sep 1, 2007)

I bought two 701A Ultrafire knives, from DX. They are great little knifes. They cut lemons in a BBQ, and meat-- perfect for my EDC. It really boils down to this you get what u pay for a small cheap 5 dollar knife in this case i came out in top. I also carry an inexpensive Smith and Wesson Extreme Ops Urban CK32C on Ebay looks killer. Thats why I opted to carry this 701A Ultrafire its smaller. 

A bunch of guys drinking beer BBQing and I pull out this S&W Eagle Claw to cut a lemon. Yeah thats was my EDC leaves me money more for beer.:sick2: 

Fred


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## rmzalbar (Sep 7, 2007)

The 701A is the knife I drop in my pocket when I leave in the morning. It's tiny, durable and sharp. The clip grips like an alligator. The finish resists wear and damage. It's also cheap - I do not fear losing, scratching or mistreating it.

I will say this about the edge performance: the edge might need a somewhat less aggressive double-angle grind. Through moderate use, it didn't take any *damage* but did roll a bit requiring a couple strokes on a steel to straighten. I don't actually know what this says about the temper.


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## dc (Sep 8, 2007)

I have also just receive the 701A and really satisfied with it. The black finish look sleek and feel durable while the knife edge is adequately sharp. Given it price range and good design cues, i have really nothing against it except praises. 
I also edc the 701A now due to it small size and strong secure clip. 
Infact, i just order the 702A,703A and 707A. You can't go wrong with another few of the family, given their attractive price range.

DC


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