# MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!! (pics in post 34)



## Marduke (Jan 30, 2009)

While at Lowe's tonight checking for the Remington headlamp, I happened to look down at the Mag's. And what do I see, but Rebel LED's in the 2D and 3D models!! They were stamped with "060", which suggests to me that they were Rebel 60's.

Should focus into a tighter spot now.


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## :)> (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

Marduke,

Not funny

Don't get our hopes up just to dash 'em. You would have bought one and posted pics by now if they were there and you were a good flashaholic



I will be down there tomorrow to check it out:thumbsup:


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## Illum (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

:thinking:

thats not good...that couldn't be good...
unless they managed to put in a bigger heatsink or modified the reflector


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## Marduke (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

I'm not joking. I didn't have a camera with me, and I didn't feel like shelling out $31 for something that is still crappier than what I already have.

If I get back that way tomorrow I'll take the camera.

Of course if someone wanted to donate the $$, I'd be more than happy to buy one and compare it to the old 2D MagLED.


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## Illum (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

I didn't accuse you of joking:twothumbs, but I can't help but to shudder thinking what sort of beam profile a stock SMO PR reflector + rebel looks like:candle:


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## LukeA (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Illum_the_nation said:


> I didn't accuse you of joking:twothumbs, but I can't help but to shudder thinking what sort of beam profile a stock SMO PR reflector + rebel looks like:candle:



I bet it isn't bad at all. Really. I have Rebel lights with SMO reflectors and they're fine.


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## :)> (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Marduke said:


> I'm not joking. I didn't have a camera with me, and I didn't feel like shelling out $31 for something that is still crappier than what I already have.
> 
> If I get back that way tomorrow I'll take the camera.
> 
> Of course if someone wanted to donate the $$, I'd be more than happy to buy one and compare it to the old 2D MagLED.


 
:nana:


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## Gunner12 (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

WHAT!

Maglite using relatively new parts???

How Is This Possible?!?!

I must see next time I'm around a MagLED.


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## metlarules (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

How does the Rebel 060 compare in efficiency to the Lux 3 now used?


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## Marduke (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



metlarules said:


> How does the Rebel 060 compare in efficiency to the Lux 3 now used?



https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/156772

Not as good as you might think. They might as well have used a Cree P2


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## Calvin (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

I modded my 3d mag with a rebel. The first two batteries from the tailcap end got corroded. I chopped the body down so one battery could be used, put in a driver and put the rebel in. The reflector does work very nice and it is a good thrower. I wish I knew how to post pictures. Although it would have to go in the mod forum. Just my 2 cents, rebel in a mag reflector worked well for me.


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## kramer5150 (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Gunner12 said:


> WHAT!
> 
> Maglite using relatively new parts???
> 
> ...



low BIN rebels are nothing to really get excited over from a brightness standpoint (IMHO). Although the color tint is really good. The ROV sportsman 2AA lights use rebel 50 (or 60 I can't remember). Its still one of my best lights as far as tint and beam smoothness/quality are concerned.


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## darknessemitter (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Marduke said:


> While at Lowe's tonight checking for the Remington headlamp, I happened to look down at the Mag's. And what do I see, but Rebel LED's in the 2D and 3D models!! They were stamped with "060", which suggests to me that they were Rebel 60's.
> 
> Should focus into a tighter spot now.


 
I don't suppose there's any chance it was an upside down "090"?  Yeah, I know, not likely. Would've been better if they used a TFFC K2. Although I am interested in seeing how a Rebel performs in a MiniMagLED...


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## metlarules (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

I wonder if this means we are going to see a clearance sale on the Lux 3 Maglites.  While not even close to current technology,they make excellent runtime/emergency lights.


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## ozner1991 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*


maybe maglite is finnaly upgrading:candle:


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## LukeA (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



ozner1991 said:


> maybe maglite is finnaly upgrading:candle:



From 2 generations ago to 1 generation ago.


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## greenLED (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



LukeA said:


> From 2 generations ago to 1 generation ago.


So much for "not jumping on new and unproven LED fads", as they said when asked about LED technology... :laughing:


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## Gunner12 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



kramer5150 said:


> low BIN rebels are nothing to really get excited over from a brightness standpoint (IMHO). Although the color tint is really good. The ROV sportsman 2AA lights use rebel 50 (or 60 I can't remember). Its still one of my best lights as far as tint and beam smoothness/quality are concerned.


I know it is probably a lower binned Rebel, but it's still a Rebel none the less.

Humm, I wonder where they got the idea to change...


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## lightinsky (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

I wonder if you have a C or D cell mag with a lux 3 if they have the PR based Rebel available yet or do you have to buy the whole light with it?


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## Black Rose (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



kramer5150 said:


> The ROV sportsman 2AA lights use rebel 50 (or 60 I can't remember).


I assume you are referring to the 3W versions of the ROV Sportsman Xtreme lights. 

1W versions (at least the ones I have) have Lux I's in them.


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## rockz4532 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

i wonder if the regulation is different.


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## Cydonia (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

Bad news indeed. The logical choice would have been to go to a TFFC K2. Very disappointing. 
On the other hand, maybe they changed the circuit? Someone will have to get one of these new MagLED's and check current at the LED etc.,


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## Marduke (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

I looked, but they did not have the individual LED upgrade units for sale. The MiniMagLED's were still all Lux 3's. All of thier MagLED products were on sale/clearance to some extent.


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## f22shift (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

interesting.. good eye


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## Nitroz (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Cydonia said:


> Bad news indeed. The logical choice would have been to go to a TFFC K2. Very disappointing.
> On the other hand, maybe they changed the circuit? Someone will have to get one of these new MagLED's and check current at the LED etc.,



Yes and no. The K2 creates lots of heat when running at full power, and as we all know the Mag design is horrible at dissipating heat away and then throttles back making all that possible horsepower useless. It would be like putting 155/80/12 Geo Metro tires on a Ferrari. 

I think the 0100 would be a better option, or a Seoul p4. Too bad they botched the design from the start.


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## ZMZ67 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Nitroz said:


> Yes and no. The K2 creates lots of heat when running at full power, and as we all know the Mag design is horrible at dissipating heat away and then throttles back making all that possible horsepower useless. It would be like putting 155/80/12 Geo Metro tires on a Ferrari.
> 
> I think the 0100 would be a better option, or a Seoul p4. Too bad they botched the design from the start.


 
I thought that the K2 was supposed to be more robust at handling heat?Considering the design limitations with no heatsinking the LED isn't going to be driven hard for very long anyway.With all the problems TerraLUX had with Seouls from the start I can't see how they would be a better option in a light without heatsinking.The Rebel 60 sounds like a cost effective solution for Mag but I also would rather have the TFFC K2.


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## Nitroz (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



ZMZ67 said:


> I thought that the K2 was supposed to be more robust at handling heat?Considering the design limitations with no heatsinking the LED isn't going to be driven hard for very long anyway.With all the problems TerraLUX had with Seouls from the start I can't see how they would be a better option in a light without heatsinking.The Rebel 60 sounds like a cost effective solution for Mag but I also would rather have the TFFC K2.




To ring out the maximum lumens from a K2 you have to push them at 1.5 amps, and these things generate some serious heat. I have one in a Mag and must say I love the tint. It does focus to a needle point but does not have any spill, the Seoul give a good combination of both and a decent tint if you get the right bin.

The K2 TFFC's should be able to handle the heat better, but at the same time they put off alot of heat which will cause the module to throttle back the current which equals a dimmer light. Don't get me wrong, I love the Philips/Lumileds LEDs but they have been surpassed IMO by Cree and Seoul. I wish they would get back in the game.


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## p1fiend (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

My Home Depot has 2D Mag-leds with Rebels, and since a package was already open, I took it out and checked it out today. (sorry no camera)

First thing - The old packaging had a picture that showed the LED module and a PR incan module with arrows indicating one could swap them: on the newer Rebel models, this pictures is gone.....

.....because as far as I can tell the Rebel LED module is not removeable :thumbsdow. There is no screw-on collar like the old ones had. In fact, I even went at it with a pair of pliers to see if I could pull it out, but had no luck.

The light is still focusable however.

I'm willing to bet this new module and its inability to be removed and swapped are a cost savings from Mag instead of any real upgrade.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

Sounds like they used epoxy to hold the emitter down. Just a guess.

Bill


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## darknessemitter (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



p1fiend said:


> My Home Depot has 2D Mag-leds with Rebels, and since a package was already open, I took it out and checked it out today. (sorry no camera)
> 
> First thing - The old packaging had a picture that showed the LED module and a PR incan module with arrows indicating one could swap them: on the newer Rebel models, this pictures is gone.....
> 
> ...


 
That's too bad  But do you think it's possible that they improved the heat sinking?


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## asdalton (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



darknessemitter said:


> That's too bad  But do you think it's possible that they improved the heat sinking?



The poor heatsinking of the MagLED module is due to the lack of a thermal path between the lamp holder and the body. You need something like the Malkoff Mag drop-in (which requires sawing off the reflector cam) to make a thermal path to the body.

Without a good thermal path there are only 2 options:

1) Throttle back the current when the LED gets hot. (Mag already does this.)
2) Use a more efficient LED, so that you can use less power to get the same output. (It remains to be seen if Mag has done this.)


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## Illum (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

glued in rebel....hmmm, perhaps mag made the pedestal metal finally


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## likeguymontag (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

They had the Rebel MagLeds at the Lowes and WalMart in Frederick, MD. Or was it Home Depot? I can never tell them apart... :ironic:

As reported, I only saw them in the full size models, not the AA lights or the drop-ins. They definitely say 060 or 090 depending on your perspective. Ha. That was a joke. Perspective...


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## Marduke (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

I went to a different Lowe's and a Walmart. Both had them. This time I brought the camera, but had an awful time trying to get a decent picture through the frosty packaging. Below are some of the better ones that came out. I threw in a pic of the Lux 3 as seen through the packaging so you can clearly see it looks different. I did not open one up, but through the reflector it looks like it uses the same pill as before.

http://picasaweb.google.com/bsmoooth/RebelMag


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## Fallingwater (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Gunner12 said:


> Maglite using relatively new parts?


Rebel 60s do not qualify as relatively new parts.
Mag keeps disappointing. Wouldn't have expected anything else.
Next step: Cree P4s when everybody else will be using R5s (or whatever we'll have by then).


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## ZMZ67 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Nitroz said:


> To ring out the maximum lumens from a K2 you have to push them at 1.5 amps, and these things generate some serious heat. I have one in a Mag and must say I love the tint. It does focus to a needle point but does not have any spill, the Seoul give a good combination of both and a decent tint if you get the right bin.
> 
> The K2 TFFC's should be able to handle the heat better, but at the same time they put off alot of heat which will cause the module to throttle back the current which equals a dimmer light. Don't get me wrong, I love the Philips/Lumileds LEDs but they have been surpassed IMO by Cree and Seoul. I wish they would get back in the game.


 
I'm not necessarily a fan of of Lumileds but the TFFC K2s seem to work well in my INOVAs.I will probably break down and get a Malkoff eventually anyway as it has heatsinking.I would really like to see a warmer Magled module but I don't know if the Rebels now being used offer anything like that.I also wonder if a Rebel would hold up isolated in a Magled module.I did enquire to Gene M. about the warm CREEs but they apparently don't work well with the stock Mag reflector.


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## jzmtl (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



ZMZ67 said:


> I also wonder if a Rebel would hold up isolated in a Magled module.



Shouldn't be a big problem as mag does cut back power to reduce heat. However it does get a lot warmer than well heatsinked light so LED lifetime is probably reduced.


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*

Rebel 60? WTF? We had rebel 80's 15 months ago. Well at least [email protected] is consistently behind the times.
I sure hope we're wrong about the flux bin on that. 
...
_on second thought I'll edit out the rant before posting it_
...
_
:sigh:
_


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## secureone (Jan 31, 2009)

BEAMSHOTS!


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## Nitroz (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Fallingwater said:


> Rebel 60s do not quality as relatively new parts.
> Mag keeps disappointing. Wouldn't have expected anything else.
> Next step: Cree P4s when everybody else will be using R5s (or whatever we'll have by then).



By looking at charts, the P4 Cree would put out more light then the 060 Rebel.:shakehead But then you have the reflector issue with a Mag and Cree LEDs.



ZMZ67 said:


> I did enquire to Gene M. about the warm CREEs but they apparently don't work well with the stock Mag reflector.



That would be correct. The Cree LEDs and a stock Mag reflector create a horrible beam. Throw the same Cree in a deep reflector and it's a different story.

That is why I said that a Seoul would work best in a Mag due to it being close to the Philips emission pattern. Not to mention it puts out more light.


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## BBnet3000 (Jan 31, 2009)

new or old LEDs are a lot less important than the heat issue. i have no idea why they dont have an LED/reflector kit with a decent heatsink as part of it, it doesnt seem like it would be very difficult, theres a decent amount of space in the head and they could have some way for it to make contact with the body pretty easily.


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## Nitroz (Jan 31, 2009)

BBnet3000 said:


> new or old LEDs are a lot less important than the heat issue. i have no idea why they dont have an LED/reflector kit with a decent heatsink as part of it, it doesnt seem like it would be very difficult, theres a decent amount of space in the head and they could have some way for it to make contact with the body pretty easily.



I don't see them redoing something like this even though they should. Mag is such a large company, for them to retool and change this would be cost a fortune.


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## likeguymontag (Jan 31, 2009)

Nitroz said:


> I don't see them redoing something like this even though they should. Mag is such a large company, for them to retool and change this would be cost a fortune.




If they were to go to the expense of retooling to manufacture a superior product, surely they'd also change the packaging to indicate the improvement. Hell, lots of manufacturers put "New and Improved" on their packaging when they haven't changed a thing.


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## Big_Ed (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Marduke said:


> I went to a different Lowe's and a Walmart. Both had them. This time I brought the camera, but had an awful time trying to get a decent picture through the frosty packaging. Below are some of the better ones that came out. I threw in a pic of the Lux 3 as seen through the packaging so you can clearly see it looks different. I did not open one up, but through the reflector it looks like it uses the same pill as before.
> 
> http://picasaweb.google.com/bsmoooth/RebelMag



Which ones are which? It's not clear to me. Thanks.


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## Marduke (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Big_Ed said:


> Which ones are which? It's not clear to me. Thanks.



#3 is the Lux 3. The others are the Rebel 60


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## Nitroz (Jan 31, 2009)

likeguymontag said:


> If they were to go to the expense of retooling to manufacture a superior product, surely they'd also change the packaging to indicate the improvement. Hell, lots of manufacturers put "New and Improved" on their packaging when they haven't changed a thing.



They might have that "Improved" stamped on the package now since they changed the LED. Still, it is only just a little improvement.:sigh:


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## Nitroz (Jan 31, 2009)

Marduke,

Did they say that they have improved the light on the packaging?


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## Marduke (Jan 31, 2009)

Nitroz said:


> Marduke,
> 
> Did they say that they have improved the light on the packaging?



Not sure. If they did, it was not obvious. I'll be stopping at another Lowe's tomorrow (still looking for that headlamp), so I'll try to take a picture of the old and new package to compare. If successful, that will be up late Sunday night.


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## defloyd77 (Jan 31, 2009)

What if this isn't Mag's next step? It seems like a lot of manufacturers that were using Luxeon I or III changed to the Rebel 50 or 60, maybe Lumileds is either pushing/suggesting these Rebels instead of the Luxeons or offering better deals. I think this might be a small stepping stone before Mag's next move.


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## Marduke (Jan 31, 2009)

defloyd77 said:


> I think this might be a small stepping stone before Mag's next move.




Well, we should know in another 2-4 years then...


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## lightinsky (Jan 31, 2009)

Refuse to change with the times you get left behind. Mag needs to catch up to the Technology that's current if they don't they will no longer be on the Christmas wish list anylonger. Just my 2 cents.


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## defloyd77 (Jan 31, 2009)

Has production on the TFFC Rebels and K2s picked back up yet or are they still slow?


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## Black Rose (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



Nitroz said:


> That is why I said that a Seoul would work best in a Mag due to it being close to the Philips emission pattern. Not to mention it puts out more light.


And if wasn't for those  positive slugs on the Seouls, it would be an easier swap.


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## Black Rose (Feb 1, 2009)

Fallingwater said:


> Next step: Cree P4s when everybody else will be using R5s (or whatever we'll have by then).


Bad analogy....people actually like Cree P4s 

I prefer the Cree Q5 but continue to use my Cree P4 lights.


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## tebore (Feb 1, 2009)

Maybe LumiLEDs is finally stopping/cutting production on Lux I/IIIs and thus have forced Mag and others to start using rebels and K2.

Nitroz your information is slightly off. The Rebel and K2 put out the same amount of heat if you drive them at the same level. Assuming the same bins and yes they do use the same binning structure. The Really old K2s are about the same efficiency as the best Lux 3 but with better heat handling and thus ability to be driven at 1.5Amps. 

The Rebel 100 and K2 200 are both TFFC based and will deliver ~100lm at 350mA. Thus similar efficiency just different packaging. The natural move would have been to use the K2. However I suspectthat the larger package of the K2 probably had something to do with the choice for a rebel. 

Rebel 060s are along the lines of top bin Lux 3 in effiency and aren't using the TFFC technology that the latest gen is using to get nearly 2x the efficiency. 

Ok so whose's going to be the first to buy and dissect one of these babies.


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## ace0001a (Feb 1, 2009)

To me, to subject of Mag making huge improvements or retooling their manufacturing is like 

I think it's more plausible that Lumileds is cutting back on production of their Luxeon 3 LEDs, finally have ran out of back stock of them, cut Maglite a really really good deal on the Rebel 060 or all of the above. You can still look at this as an "improvement" no matter how slight it is. And besides, I hope Mag never retools and keeps making them the way they do because I love the idea of being able to mod them. There are so many aftermarket drop-ins and mod components for Maglites, that any and all flashaholics should take a stab at doing themselves...it's part of why this hobby is fun. For the average Joe Schmoe who buys Maglites at the big box stores, they probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the "old" LuxIII MagLED and the "new" Rebel060 ones anyways...so what Mag has done is good enough for the general public.


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## defloyd77 (Feb 1, 2009)

I'd like to add some personal observations; 

1. In the non-flashaholic world, Mag is not in danger of being "left behind", heck most people see them as THE flashlight company and buy cheap ol' plastic incans unless they want to upgrade the the "superior" Mag. 

2. Magleds don't seem to sell around here. Why? It's not the last gen technology that turns Joe Average off, it's their price. Putting in the latest and greatest might not help that much in sales to Mr. Average, especially if they decide to up the price or even leave it the same.

3. Gummy dome Seoul + Mag + Joe Average = one f'd up dome. I've seem far to many bulbs break when a headless Mag takes a fall when tailstanding. Not to mention they seem to be a magnet for dust and junk.

I think tossing in the 060 Rebel is a good step forward, it may not be brighter, but as others said it'll have a tighter beam, possibly better tint and then there's the lower VF. What effect will the lower VF have anyway? Brighter or longer running? Not to mention that it gives them the chance to experiment with the Rebel, seeing if they like it and if they do, maybe they'll decide to upgrade to the TFFC.


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## Dark Laser (Feb 1, 2009)

Well, sry for my grammar mistakes first - I hope it isn't that bad 

@defloyd77:

1. +1, I agree completely.
2. +1 again...but...perhaps you know about Mag's prices here in Germany - and most of Europe :sigh:. And I wonder when the "new" MagLeds will be available over here anyway 
3. you are right again 


But let's look on the positive side: Mag is really doing SOMEthing :twothumbs

Lower forward voltage means: less power needed, if the current stays the same and the LED has a lower Vf. (P=U*I)
Less power = more runtime.


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## metlarules (Feb 1, 2009)

A few things to keep in mind about Maglite.

1) Mags are top notch fashlights to the average Joe. Hell, most non-flashoholics think are pricey. If they bought the latest and greatest emitter it would cost more.Which means they will have to pass it along to the consumer. I don't think the average person is willing to purchase a flashlight that cost more than $30.

2) Imagine how many leds that Maglite buys under contract at a time. They have to buy enough leds to keep up with the demand without interuptions in the production line. So any change WILL NOT be made till the current stock of leds are used up. Which leads me to believe that is what is happening now.

3) Mags are good lights for the average Joe. They are bright enough for general use. They are durable,and the runtime is damn good.


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## Black Rose (Feb 1, 2009)

defloyd77 said:


> 2. Magleds don't seem to sell around here. Why? It's not the last gen technology that turns Joe Average off, it's their price.


Very true. They cost even more outside the US, depending on the retailer.

I personally don't have a problem buying MagLEDs, but I won't pay full price for them.



> 3. Gummy dome Seoul + Mag + Joe Average = one f'd up dome. I've seem far to many bulbs break when a headless Mag takes a fall when tailstanding. Not to mention they seem to be a magnet for dust and junk.


Very good point about the gummy dome in candle mode.


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## LukeA (Feb 1, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> Very true. They cost even more outside the US, depending on the retailer.
> 
> I personally don't have a problem buying MagLEDs, but I won't pay full price for them.
> 
> ...



Rebels have soft domes too.


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## tebore (Feb 1, 2009)

LukeA said:


> Rebels have soft domes too.



But the rebels are small enough have to an extra lens on them like they seem to have in the pictures.


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## Marduke (Feb 1, 2009)

tebore said:


> But the rebels are small enough have to an extra lens on them like they seem to have in the pictures.



Extra lens? Never seen that on a Rebel.


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## tebore (Feb 1, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Extra lens? Never seen that on a Rebel.



Not as part of the rebel. But the Pictures seem to show that the rebels are mounted recessed in to the LED module and has a lens/covering on top to complete the module.


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## likeguymontag (Feb 1, 2009)

tebore said:


> Not as part of the rebel. But the Pictures seem to show that the rebels are mounted recessed in to the LED module and has a lens/covering on top to complete the module.



I saw one in person last night. There is definitely no lens or cover besides the regular rebel dome. You must be seeing an illusion caused by the reflector or packaging.


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## Marduke (Feb 1, 2009)

tebore said:


> Not as part of the rebel. But the Pictures seem to show that the rebels are mounted recessed in to the LED module and has a lens/covering on top to complete the module.



The pictures I took? There is no secondary lens/cover.


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## tebore (Feb 1, 2009)

Marduke said:


> The pictures I took? There is no secondary lens/cover.



Well then..

Time for a new camera?


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## Nitroz (Feb 1, 2009)

tebore said:


> Maybe LumiLEDs is finally stopping/cutting production on Lux I/IIIs and thus have forced Mag and others to start using rebels and K2.
> 
> Nitroz your information is slightly off. The Rebel and K2 put out the same amount of heat if you drive them at the same level. Assuming the same bins and yes they do use the same binning structure. The Really old K2s are about the same efficiency as the best Lux 3 but with better heat handling and thus ability to be driven at 1.5Amps.


Thanks for the slight correction. 


tebore said:


> Rebel 060s are along the lines of top bin Lux 3 in effiency and aren't using the TFFC technology that the latest gen is using to get nearly 2x the efficiency.
> 
> Ok so whose's going to be the first to buy and dissect one of these babies.



It's still like Mag took a step sideways instead of up. But I imagine that Philips gave them a good deal on the rebel 060.

If Mag had of used the Rebel 100 that would have been a nice improvement. Owell


----------



## spencer (Feb 1, 2009)

They would have been so much better off using a Rebel 100 and dropping the drive current. It would have better battery life because it's using less power and it would produce less heat at the same brightness because it's more efficient.


----------



## ZMZ67 (Feb 1, 2009)

tebore said:


> Maybe LumiLEDs is finally stopping/cutting production on Lux I/IIIs and thus have forced Mag and others to start using rebels and K2.
> 
> Nitroz your information is slightly off. The Rebel and K2 put out the same amount of heat if you drive them at the same level. Assuming the same bins and yes they do use the same binning structure. The Really old K2s are about the same efficiency as the best Lux 3 but with better heat handling and thus ability to be driven at 1.5Amps.
> 
> ...


 
I still would like to see the use of the TFFC K2 in a Magled but it seems that Mag went the cost effective route with the Rebels.Maybe the use of TFFC K2 would have pushed up the cost to the point I would lose interest in favor of better lights/options anyway.:shrug:


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## defloyd77 (Feb 1, 2009)

LukeA said:


> Rebels have soft domes too.



You know, I completely forgot about that, but aren't they somewhat better than the Seoul dome? All the more reason just to put the dang TFFC K2 in it!


----------



## asdalton (Feb 1, 2009)

I picked up one of the new 2D MagLEDs at Wal-Mart today, and I have some good news.

- It's about *2x as bright* as my Luxeon 2D MagLED. :rock:
- After running for 10 minutes, it's still equal or slightly brighter than my fresh Luxeon 3D MagLED.
- The collar near the switch area *gets slightly warm* for the new version, while it does not get warm at all for the old version.

So it looks like we have improved performance, and possibly some real heatsinking.


----------



## greenLED (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



p1fiend said:


> .....because as far as I can tell the Rebel LED module is not removeable :thumbsdow. There is no screw-on collar like the old ones had. In fact, I even went at it with a pair of pliers to see if I could pull it out, but had no luck.
> 
> ...
> 
> I'm willing to bet this new module and its inability to be removed and swapped are a cost savings from Mag instead of any real upgrade.


Actually, I think it might point to a redesign to imporve heatsinking. If that's the case, I'd be really happy that they chose to do so. Hopefully they'll continue to update their LED line.


----------



## Nitroz (Feb 1, 2009)

asdalton said:


> I picked up one of the new 2D MagLEDs at Wal-Mart today, and I have some good news.
> 
> - It's about *2x as bright* as my Luxeon 2D MagLED. :rock:
> - After running for 10 minutes, it's still equal or slightly brighter than my fresh Luxeon 3D MagLED.
> ...



Excellent news indeed!

Any idea of the current that is going to the LED?


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## jasonck08 (Feb 1, 2009)

Mag must not pay their R&D team very much... I don't understand why they always seem so slow to adopt the latest and greatest. I mean in the quantities that they do, a Soul P4-U bin wouldn't cost that much more. And they could drive it even at 500ma and it would only use 1.5W's and still be brighter then the LED's they are using...


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## LG&M (Feb 1, 2009)

75 posts about a light nobody wants. I love this place.


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## darknessemitter (Feb 1, 2009)

tebore said:


> Rebel 060s are along the lines of top bin Lux 3 in effiency and aren't using the TFFC technology that the latest gen is using to get nearly 2x the efficiency.


 
Is it true that only the Rebel 80 and higher are TFFC? And therefore presence of the grid/waffle pattern should tell you whether it's above or below the 80 bin? 

Sorry, I tried searching for this before, but couldn't find a consistant answer.


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## tebore (Feb 1, 2009)

darknessemitter said:


> Is it true that only the Rebel 80 and higher are TFFC? And therefore presence of the grid/waffle pattern should tell you whether it's above or below the 80 bin?
> 
> Sorry, I tried searching for this before, but couldn't find a consistant answer.



For sure it's only the dies with the waffle pattern that are TFFC. I haven't seen any from Philips that are lower than 080bin that have it so I can only conclude that only the 080 bin and higher are TFFC.


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## darknessemitter (Feb 1, 2009)

tebore said:


> For sure it's only the dies with the waffle pattern that are TFFC. I haven't seen any from Philips that are lower than 080bin that have it so I can only conclude that only the 080 bin and higher are TFFC.


 
Interesting... My Riverrock Nightfire 2xAA has a really obvious waffle pattern, but it's only supposed to be a Rebel 50. Maybe they wanted to play it safe when listing the specs, knowing that there wouldn't be many higher binned Rebels available?


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## Monocrom (Feb 1, 2009)

Wow! Maglite already updated their LED lights?? oo:

I wasn't expecting that for at least 15 years.... No, seriously; I actually bought a couple of extra MagLED drop-ins nearly a year ago for future use. Had no idea that Maglite would upgrade them so quickly. (For Maglite, a Rebel 60 emitter counts as an _upgrade_).


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## Mong (Feb 1, 2009)

LG&M said:


> 75 posts about a light nobody wants. I love this place.


 

Obviously you've never beaten someone with a maglite. SOMEONE must want one


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## asdalton (Feb 1, 2009)

Nitroz said:


> Excellent news indeed!
> 
> Any idea of the current that is going to the LED?



No. I don't have a multimeter. Measuring current drawn from the batteries would be the first (and easiest) thing to do, anyway.

By the way, I've been comparing the output to my other lights, and I'd estimate that this puts out 100 lumens when cool. After it warms up, this drops down to around 60 lumens. 

Part of this decrease may be the limitations of using 2 alkaline batteries. I know that the old 3D MagLED outperforms the old 2D MagLED in having both a higher initial output and a smaller % drop in output. The Wal-Mart that I went to today had only Luxeon versions of their remaining 3D MagLED stock, so I could not buy the new 3D light to test it.


----------



## yaesumofo (Feb 1, 2009)

If you guys are so unhappy with what Mag is putting into their lights why not mod them your selves? That is what I did and have been doing for years.
As a host the 3 d or c mag makes for a great host. toss a link in there or whatever is the most current heat sink for the mag body and possibly a driver and you have a fantastic light. the MAg reflector does great things with leds. Back in the day there was a mod called a space needle made by Mr Bulk which used a LUX V emitter and at the time it was the bees knees. Today there are better emitters. Start modding fellas!!

Yaesumofo


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## defloyd77 (Feb 1, 2009)

How's the tint?


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## asdalton (Feb 1, 2009)

defloyd77 said:


> How's the tint?



It's neutral white, probably X0.


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## dano (Feb 1, 2009)

On a whim, i bought a two cell, rebel equipped Mag. I like it. Output is roughly double as compared to the original 3 watter. Interestingly, the rebel is pressed into a metal housing, so there's no way to remove it and replace it with a PR based bulb (unlike the original MAGLED design which was a PR base and compatible with PR incan bulbs).

-dan


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## lightinsky (Feb 1, 2009)

It's probably a permanent mount so that know one buys the new version gets home and swaps out emitters and then returns the old lux 3 back to the store for a refund. Maybe they will eventually sell a rebel drop in for those with the old PR version mag.


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## gfang (Feb 1, 2009)

I have been to Mag Instrument in Ontario California many times to drop off lites for repair. Its pretty obvious once you see the place and meet some of the people there that it is little more than a sweat shop pushing out products as quickly and cheaply as possible. For those of you that think Mag is some huge company, you're right, but you would probably be in shock if you actually went there. Their manufacturing facilities are smaller and pretty run down compared to many other So Cal big businesses. It is no surprise that they don't apply the latest tech. They are about creating a large volume of reasonably dependable lights for the least cost.

Until someone turns Maglica into an LED enthusiast, don't expect anything "cutting edge" from Mag Lite.


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## sims2k (Feb 1, 2009)

LG&M said:


> 75 posts about a light nobody wants. I love this place.



For us here...but for everyone else that I know ... they stand by their Maglites. My friends the farmer, the carpenter, and the plumbers stand by their maglites even though my old Fenix L2DCE outshines them all.


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## Burgess (Feb 2, 2009)

Thank you to everybody for posting this information.


(insert BigThumbsUp here)

_


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## asdalton (Feb 2, 2009)

dano said:


> On a whim, i bought a two cell, rebel equipped Mag. I like it. Output is roughly double as compared to the original 3 watter. Interestingly, the rebel is pressed into a metal housing, so there's no way to remove it and replace it with a PR based bulb (unlike the original MAGLED design which was a PR base and compatible with PR incan bulbs).
> 
> -dan



Another change that I just noticed: the new MagLED reflector is considerably deeper.


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## Marduke (Feb 2, 2009)

I looked harder at one today in the store. The picture of swapping the bulb out is gone off the package from both the front and back. The lamp retaining ring is gone, and therefore it looks like the reflector has a smaller diameter opening at the base.

Sorry, no pics. Wife forgot to put the camera in her purse...


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## asdalton (Feb 2, 2009)

Here is a picture of the two side by side (new on the right):


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## outersquare (Feb 2, 2009)

thats nice, i hope they upgrade the AA series also


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## download (Feb 2, 2009)

asdalton, 
Please un-screw the head and take a few pic. to show the details inside.
If possible, take out the switch module from the back to see it all.
Thanks

Look, it has new smaller openning & deeper reflector now.


----------



## darknessemitter (Feb 2, 2009)

asdalton said:


> Here is a picture of the two side by side (new on the right):


 
Are the beam characteristics very different? Any chance of beam shots?


----------



## Cydonia (Feb 2, 2009)

A big thanks to asdalton - finally some decent pictures!
Now unscrew the Maglite head and take more pictures!
And Download is right - smaller reflector opening now as well! And deeper... it has been totally redesigned?

Slowly, painfully slowly in fact, we are getting a trickle of info on this amazing turn of events. Could it be that the LED module is no longer removable?! Have decades of design been overturned? Only more pictures from inside will tell!

Thread title needs to be: MagLite *has* upgraded to a Rebel *60 LED*!! (pics in post 34) 
(because many don't know there is such a thing as a Rebel LED - they would be thinking "WTF is a Rebel 60?" Answer: A junk LED)
​


----------



## kramer5150 (Feb 2, 2009)

thanks asdalton!!!
Where did you get it? (somewhere in san jose?)

thanks


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## asdalton (Feb 2, 2009)

It was at the Wal-Mart in McCarthy Ranch (Milpitas).


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## zs&tas (Feb 2, 2009)

well mags reliability has just gone down hill hasnt it ? cant replace the led/bulb if it goes wrong or gets dropped ? itl just be a useless baton in 5 years - DOH i best buy some good ol pr based ones before there all gone.


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## Nitroz (Feb 2, 2009)

Do you have any calipers to measure new vs. old reflector?

It looks like the reflector is a little deeper to meet the newly designed pedestal.


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## clg0159 (Feb 2, 2009)

zs&tas said:


> well mags reliability has just gone down hill hasnt it ? cant replace the led/bulb if it goes wrong or gets dropped ? itl just be a useless baton in 5 years - DOH i best buy some good ol pr based ones before there all gone.


 Depends on your modding skill..........I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to replace. 
Does anyone have pictures of the inner workings yet....I'm interested to see just what this "new" thermal path consits of


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## rockz4532 (Feb 2, 2009)

zs&tas said:


> well mags reliability has just gone down hill hasnt it ? cant replace the led/bulb if it goes wrong or gets dropped ? itl just be a useless baton in 5 years - DOH i best buy some good ol pr based ones before there all gone.


 im pretty sure they will still sell the incan mags for quite a while


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## defloyd77 (Feb 2, 2009)

You know, I've seen the older Magleds on clearance at a local Wal-Mart, then I've seen these new ones actually a few months ago and thought it sort of looked funny but didn't think anything of it


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## Cydonia (Feb 2, 2009)

zs&tas said:


> well mags reliability has just gone down hill hasnt it ? cant replace the led/bulb if it goes wrong or gets dropped ? itl just be a useless baton in 5 years - DOH i best buy some good ol pr based ones before there all gone.



I agree. Lucky there are millions of old style Maglites out there.
It's not like there will ever be a shortage of them :naughty:



clg0159 said:


> Does anyone have pictures of the inner workings yet....I'm interested to see just what this "new" thermal path consits of



Yeah...a cheap $10 DX light generates pages of beam shots and internal circuit pictures the day one first arrives in someone's mailbox (not exactly an exaggeration either). 
A new total redesign of the famous Maglite and we have to hang in suspense for literally _*days*_ while someone gets around to unscrewing the head and snapping a picture. 
A total yawn fest. Absolutely amazing :ironic:
Did I mention that the whole thing was a total "out of the blue" surprise with no warning? One day... "oh... new Maglites... looks like a total redesign of a 30 year old American Tradition... Wadda ya know... *yawn* *yawn* *yawn* "


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 3, 2009)

:shakehead I'm considering going to Lowe's!

My thinking is: Maybe I can stick a high CRI Seoul in the new deeper reflector mag.


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## jzmtl (Feb 3, 2009)

I don't think the new reflector is really any deeper, just that they extended it down a bit to make opening smaller.


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 3, 2009)

Ah :thumbsup:

I suppose I could just put one on a Mag LED module. 

I'll just have to figure out which one would be best for the 4000K Seoul first.


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## dano (Feb 3, 2009)

Cydonia said:


> I agree. Lucky there are millions of old style Maglites out there.
> It's not like there will ever be a shortage of them :naughty:
> 
> 
> ...



Well, instead of complaining, why don't you go and buy one, and take a bunch of photos for the rest of us?


----------



## MarNav1 (Feb 3, 2009)

downloads gonna come up with something, I just know it!


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## LEDmodMan (Feb 3, 2009)

[email protected] "upgrading" their LEDs so soon???  That should have taken at least 10 more years!!!  Does not compute... Can't wait for pics of the guts (anyone? Bueller? Bueller?).



yaesumofo said:


> Back in the day there was a mod called a space needle made by Mr Bulk which used a LUX V emitter and at the time it was the bees knees.
> Yaesumofo



LMAO! Most of the folks that hang around here these days will be thinking, "Space Needle? Mr. Bulk? Bees Knees?" :thinking: and will have to run off to Google those terms. 

My Dad still uses his SN and loves it. Truely one of the first real [email protected] mods. I might upgrade him to a P7 or MC-E, and have him start using Li-Ion instead of primaries.


----------



## Nitroz (Feb 3, 2009)

jzmtl said:


> I don't think the new reflector is really any deeper, just that they extended it down a bit to make opening smaller.



If it is any deeper it's not by much, only a few mm at most I would say.


----------



## The Shadow (Feb 3, 2009)

Marduke said:


> I looked harder at one today in the store. The picture of swapping the bulb out is gone off the package from both the front and back. The lamp retaining ring is gone, and therefore it looks like the reflector has a smaller diameter opening at the base.



If the LED isn't replaceable, what does this do to their lifetime warranty? I think all the Mags had a lifetime warranty, but bulbs and LEDs were excluded. Did anyone notice the warranty statement on the new packages? I'd hate to think these new lights are disposable.



Marduke said:


> Sorry, no pics. Wife forgot to put the camera in her purse...



You're a braver man than me -- "Honey, can I borrow your camera? Yes I know we're in the middle of a crowded store... I need to take pictures of this flashlight... No it's not the same one - look the emitter is different... Emitter - the bulb thingy... For the guys on my flashlight forum... yes, on the computer... honey, where are you going?" :lolsign:


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## Marduke (Feb 3, 2009)

The Shadow said:


> You're a braver man than me -- "Honey, can I borrow your camera? Yes I know we're in the middle of a crowded store... I need to take pictures of this flashlight... No it's not the same one - look the emitter is different... Emitter - the bulb thingy... For the guys on my flashlight forum... yes, on the computer... honey, where are you going?" :lolsign:



It would be funny, but that is almost _exactly_ what happened for the first pictures I took.....


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## Cydonia (Feb 3, 2009)

dano said:


> Well, instead of complaining, why don't you go and buy one, and take a bunch of photos for the rest of us?



Because I'm up in Canada, eh. They won't have these for sale up here for at least another year probably. Small market and the dual language requirements on packaging (French) means US companies don't release things up here for a long time after they are available in the US. Not worth their while rushing.


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## Blindasabat (Feb 3, 2009)

I think the reliability has improved with this redesign. As long as the LED is not over driven, then it should last a lifetime of normal use without ever having to do anything besides change batteries (less often). If an LED gets dropped, nothing happens to it. Lights that fail from being dropped have weakness in some other area of the design.
These lights will still be running on the original LED well after you can't find PR bulbs or 'bulbs' of any kind any more. Even the PR LED drop-ins will fail before this due to inadequate heat sinking or corrosion at contacts, the improvement of which seems to be the intent of the redesign. They could have just changed the Luxeon PR to a Rebel and left it at that. The built-in design will have fewer interfaces to fail. The interface from removable 'bulb' to the socket and thread-on collar (something to lose and render the whole light useless) was just a necessity of the incan bulb that had to be replaceable. Mounting the LED to a solid sink eliminates that possible failure point. No more corroded contacts or dirt intrusion. 



zs&tas said:


> well mags reliability has just gone down hill hasnt it ? cant replace the led/bulb if it goes wrong or gets dropped ? itl just be a useless baton in 5 years - DOH i best buy some good ol pr based ones before there all gone.


----------



## defloyd77 (Feb 3, 2009)

LEDmodMan said:


> LMAO! Most of the folks that hang around here these days will be thinking, "Space Needle? Mr. Bulk? Bees Knees?" :thinking: and will have to run off to Google those terms.



LMAO, it was bees knees that sent me off to google! I'm looking forward to someone doing an aspheric mod on these with the Rebels.


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 3, 2009)

I caught sight of some 2D here in WV @ Lowe's. 
Tempted but didn't do it. $31 was ok but I restrained myself for once!

If they were 3 or 4 D I probably would of done it.


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found (Feb 3, 2009)

Please tell me this isn't what they had in mind for "dynamite things in the works."

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2726607&postcount=37


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## Marduke (Feb 3, 2009)

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> Please tell me this isn't what they had in mind for "dynamite things in the works."
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2726607&postcount=37



Well, supposedly they had some completely new model at SHOT Show which changed modes in conjunction with holding the light in a certain orientation, so perhaps there is more to come.

We shall see.


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## rockz4532 (Feb 3, 2009)

beamshots anyone?


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## metlarules (Feb 3, 2009)

If the heat sinking is better its an improvement. If the led doesn't pop off when you drop the light its an improvement. If the color tint and/or brightness is better its an improvement. If the price didn't go up its an improvement. We are not going to see anything bleeding edge from Maglite. They don't do bleeding edge technology. They do reasonably inexpensive,reliable flashlights with an excellent guarantee.


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## Big_Ed (Feb 3, 2009)

metlarules said:


> If the heat sinking is better its an improvement. If the led doesn't pop off when you drop the light its an improvement. If the color tint and/or brightness is better its an improvement. If the price didn't go up its an improvement. We are not going to see anything bleeding edge from Maglite. They don't do bleeding edge technology. They do reasonably inexpensive,reliable flashlights with an excellent guarantee.



Well put!


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## JamisonM (Feb 3, 2009)

Hi guys, here a few pictures I took of a 2D I just got from walmart. Not really an improvement in my opinion. Hope these help. I have these hosted on geocities so we'll have to see how long they stay up. Please download them and spread them if you want.


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## Marduke (Feb 3, 2009)

Holy wow!! They actually gave it minimal heatsinking!!


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## qip (Feb 3, 2009)

hows the output vs lux led mag version ?

have you tried that reflector with seoul , is the beam tighter w/seoul, how much smaller is opening than stock ,is it possible to open it up a bit to fit old style pr drop ins


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## Big_Ed (Feb 3, 2009)

Maybe this was already asked and answered, but what about runtime of this new version? Is it better than the Lux III?


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## Cydonia (Feb 3, 2009)

Interesting! Thanks for the pictures JamisonM. 

Observations:


They have gone to a "C" style "bulb tower piston holder" system.
Retention collar is gone
Can only be disassembled by removing the brass cam wheel bushing
They have *not* provided a heat path to the Maglite body! (Another half measure.)
Reflector is indeed redesigned and deeper
 So can it take regular PR base bulbs or drop in's? It looks to me like it *can.* Yes or no?


----------



## holm0299 (Feb 3, 2009)

looks like an improvement to me. Much better equipment for the heat to dissipate. The mag is a beast either way in my opinion. What other flashlight can blind someone and be used in self defense the way a mag can?


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## rockz4532 (Feb 3, 2009)

is that reflector aluminum?!?oo:


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## Marduke (Feb 3, 2009)

rockz4532 said:


> is that reflector aluminum?!?oo:



You can see it's just plastic still.


----------



## JamisonM (Feb 3, 2009)

Cydonia said:


> So can it take regular PR base bulbs or drop in's? It looks to me like it *can.* Yes or no?


It can, but it require a bit of doing to get it to work. Even then, the hole in the bottom of the reflector needs to be enlarged ever so slightly so it can go past the bulb retaining ring. Amazingly, the brownish plastic, removable cam shaft from a C maglite slides right in the cam shaft of this D maglite. I think a longer hex screw should be found, but the original works fine so long as you don’t tighten it too much. Also, the older reflectors that have had their cam cut off will also work with now problem. Since these reflectors have a larger hole for the bulb, they don’t need to be widened. They also screw all the way down and give you a focused beam and a floody beam. Here's a picture. 



Big_Ed said:


> Maybe this was already asked and answered, but what about runtime of this new version? Is it better than the Lux III?


I have no idea, but check the runtime graph from flashlight reviews.com to see the runtime of the older luxeon III maglites. That should give you an idea of what you'll see out of these.



qip said:


> hows the output vs lux led mag version ?
> 
> have you tried that reflector with seoul , is the beam tighter w/seoul, how much smaller is opening than stock ,is it possible to open it up a bit to fit old style pr drop ins


I don't have a 2D magled to compare it too, but I have replaced the older reflector in my 4D maglite with one of Gene's drop-ins in it. The only problem I encountered is that the cam shaft gets in the way. Gene's drop-in just doesn't go deep enough into the battery tube because of this. So, I replaced the old switch with a cut down switch minus the came shaft and it works like a charm. Gene's drop-in goes almost right to the switch and this gives plenty of room for the reflector. The head screws on to the battery tube and even goes past the o-ring. As far as how well it throws, I'll say it does out throw the old reflector, but not by a great margin.


----------



## eyeeatingfish (Feb 4, 2009)

gfang said:


> I have been to Mag Instrument in Ontario California many times to drop off lites for repair. Its pretty obvious once you see the place and meet some of the people there that it is little more than a sweat shop pushing out products as quickly and cheaply as possible. For those of you that think Mag is some huge company, you're right, but you would probably be in shock if you actually went there. Their manufacturing facilities are smaller and pretty run down compared to many other So Cal big businesses. It is no surprise that they don't apply the latest tech. They are about creating a large volume of reasonably dependable lights for the least cost.
> 
> Until someone turns Maglica into an LED enthusiast, don't expect anything "cutting edge" from Mag Lite.



Have you, OR ANYONE ELSE HERE, every tried to email or call someone higher up in the company and have a discussion about it?
Ive been contemplating that, i would love to see them producing something that is good quality american made, at that decent price.
Seriously it wouldnt raise the price that much and I think that the even if there was a price rise that increased business would stand to make them more money. People might not be so ready to go buy all these chinese lights out there.


----------



## outersquare (Feb 4, 2009)

i just got one, it's very bright, i would guess ~100 lumens also, 

i think practically it gives up nothing compared to my E2DL

http://www.csupomona.edu/~jcwang3/sf_vs_mag.jpg

E2DL on left, mag 2D on right,

sorry for crappy pic, thats off my storm,

minor downsides, you don't see it in the pic, but the beam pattern is slightly/somewhat uneven at certain focuses, i think due to minor molding marks at the center of the reflector and possibly the LED being so small and seems slightly off center.

lowes is the cheapest, it's 29.94 there.

3D and 4D still old style

nice product overall, i would recommend this light to all and any casual users and normal persons


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 4, 2009)

Nice!


----------



## ace0001a (Feb 4, 2009)

eyeeatingfish said:


> Have you, OR ANYONE ELSE HERE, every tried to email or call someone higher up in the company and have a discussion about it?
> Ive been contemplating that, i would love to see them producing something that is good quality american made, at that decent price.
> Seriously it wouldnt raise the price that much and I think that the even if there was a price rise that increased business would stand to make them more money. People might not be so ready to go buy all these chinese lights out there.



Yeah somehow I just don't see that happening...and besides, I honestly can't see a single American company satisfying all the needs of every domestic flashaholic. It's like telling a car collector to only buy American, and quite frankly it ain't going to happen unless you strictly focus on collecting said American cars only. For an American company to invest more R&D and actually sell more up to date technology flashlights would make the product more expensive. One needs to only look a domestic company like Inova to see that. Sure they've got LED flashlights in the same price range as Maglites, but their higher end models are noticeably more expensive. If Mag did have higher end flashlights that had more up to date technology, you know they're going to be much more expensive. What they have done now is a good compromise to cater to the general public (which doesn't know any better) and also at the very least catch the interest of us flashlight enthusiasts. As a flashaholic myself, I enjoy variety as well as affordability. I love the Mags I own because I enjoy the ability to mod them. I also love the many different Chinese made flashlights I own too...it's all part of being a flashlight enthusiast as far as I'm concerned.


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## defloyd77 (Feb 4, 2009)

Does it dim (lower current) when it gets hot like the old version?


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## metlarules (Feb 4, 2009)

All in all if it is brighter and doesn't dim when it heats up all the while keeping the price the same I say its a winner.


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## secureone (Feb 4, 2009)

BEAMSHOTS!!!
BEAMSHOTS!!!
BEAMSHOTS!!!


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## metlarules (Feb 4, 2009)

secureone said:


> BEAMSHOTS!!!
> BEAMSHOTS!!!
> BEAMSHOTS!!!


 Click on the link in post #134.


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## secureone (Feb 4, 2009)

metlarules said:


> Click on the link in post #134.



Ah now I see the light. Better output but still mag disappoints with this upgrade.


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## metlarules (Feb 4, 2009)

In the pics in post#124 it looks like it says -090. Is it a Rebel 060 or 090?


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## metlarules (Feb 4, 2009)

Sorry about the double post but I just realized something. On the Luxeon Rebel web page the only 060 it list is under the warm white emitters. It puts out 60 lumens at 350ma. The 090 puts out 90 lumens at 350ma. To me this is a win-win situation. If its a 090 we get a pretty efficient emitter. If its an 060 we get a warm incandescent like light. Scroll down to products on the Lux rebel web page and click on cool,neutral,and then warm. You will see what I'm talking about. The old Lux 3 that the mag drop in use to use is rated at 60 lumens @700 ma.


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## GPB (Feb 4, 2009)

ace0001a said:


> For an American company to invest more R&D and actually sell more up to date technology flashlights would make the product more expensive. One needs to only look a domestic company like Inova to see that. Sure they've got LED flashlights in the same price range as Maglites, but their higher end models are noticeably more expensive. If Mag did have higher end flashlights that had more up to date technology, you know they're going to be much more expensive. What they have done now is a good compromise to cater to the general public (which doesn't know any better) and also at the very least catch the interest of us flashlight enthusiasts. .


 
The way I look at it though, is that if Surefire, Inova, etc can start from scratch and make a profit on a light that costs over $100, then Mag ought to be able to do the same thing, since they already have the body, head, switch, etc designed and paid for. If they kept their current lineup of lights and then sold a "Super Mag" with a Malkoff-esque emitter in it for $100+ bucks it would sell well, make them a profit, and attract some publicity for them being somewhere near the leading edge of Flashlight technology. When you look at the dollars spent on Terralux drop ins, those monster 3 LED drop ins, Malkoffs, ROP's, and that guy that sells 900 lumen mag mods ( Black Bear Lights ? )...there is a group of people willing and able to spend big bucks on a high power mag light. It baffles me that you can buy a better Mag light from Terralux, than you can from Mag. If you needed a new engine for your Toyota, the FIRST thing you would consider would be a genuine Toyota engine. IF you needed a new LED for your Mag, the LAST thing you would consider would be a genuine Mag LED. That should keep the Mag engineers and marketers awake at night.


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## metlarules (Feb 4, 2009)

GPB said:


> The way I look at it though, is that if Surefire, Inova, etc can start from scratch and make a profit on a light that costs over $100, then Mag ought to be able to do the same thing, since they already have the body, head, switch, etc designed and paid for. If they kept their current lineup of lights and then sold a "Super Mag" with a Malkoff-esque emitter in it for $100+ bucks it would sell well, make them a profit, and attract some publicity for them being somewhere near the leading edge of Flashlight technology. When you look at the dollars spent on Terralux drop ins, those monster 3 LED drop ins, Malkoffs, ROP's, and that guy that sells 900 lumen mag mods ( Black Bear Lights ? )...there is a group of people willing and able to spend big bucks on a high power mag light. It baffles me that you can buy a better Mag light from Terralux, than you can from Mag. If you needed a new engine for your Toyota, the FIRST thing you would consider would be a genuine Toyota engine. IF you needed a new LED for your Mag, the LAST thing you would consider would be a genuine Mag LED. That should keep the Mag engineers and marketers awake at night.


 
Why go into a upscale market and compete with Surefire,Inova,Pelican and the likes when you can sell led versions of an existing light and make a couple of billion dollars? Keep in mind that CPF is less that 1/10 of a percent of Mags total sales. They cater to the average Joe who considers $50 insane for a flashlight. It would not be worth their while to tool up a different assembly line,invest in more R&D,new packaging and advertisements all during a recession to make the same or less dollars. Mags are good for what they are. Good lights for the masses.


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## GPB (Feb 4, 2009)

I am not a manufacturing engineer, but it seems like they wouldn't have to "tool up another assembly line" or do any R&D. Go buy a Malkoff or a Terralux and copy it. Then build the lights on the same production line...but take a small batch of regular lights and have the janitor install the new drop ins. Sell them exclusively online so there's very little inventory costs or effort, and not only would they make money, they would create some prestige for their brand. Joe Homeowner is going to love buying his regular Mag light when he sees a light that looks just like it on the cover of Popular Science or at Brookstone for $100 bucks.


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## american lockpicker (Feb 4, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> I caught sight of some 2D here in WV @ Lowe's.
> Tempted but didn't do it. $31 was ok but I restrained myself for once!
> 
> If they were 3 or 4 D I probably would of done it.


 

There $20 at the walmart near Parkersburg.


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## Cydonia (Feb 4, 2009)

So a PR base drop in could still work, like the old Nite Ize, but one has to use an Allen key (or Hex key) to remove the brass cam wheel. The average Joe won’t be doing this. So that shuts down the option of Maglite Drop In’s for the masses!!! Don’t you guys get it yet?!

With no threaded collar ring that shuts down the TerraLux style “thread in’s” that use these threads! How can a Malkoff work in these new Maglites?!

Maglite has moved to terminate the Nite Ize, TerraLux and Malkoff upgrade modules by making it impossible for these to work in the new Maglites!

Is this the deal? haha... typical tactics. Instead of coming out with their own Malkoff killer super module they move to block everyone else's modules from working in a new redesigned replacement model Maglite!!

Are these the new Maglites that will quickly replace all the old designs? Big box retailers will only have these new ones on their shelves, soon. 
Effectively blocking the entire Maglite drop in market in one fell swoop! 

Don't you see the genius of this Strategic move? Furthermore, Maglite first came out with with their products in 1979. This is 2009. 30 years exactly. How very cute - exactly 30 years later and there is a significant and profound design change! (There is quite an occult & astrological significance to 30 year "cyclical" changes (Clue: Sickle). discuss in PM if anyone is interested.)


:devil:


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## download (Feb 4, 2009)

What I see from the pics are:

1. Reliable, Reliable, Reliable,
2. Run time rather than brightness,
3. Keep the same/lower cost and adopt the better LED.
4. Sell it as many as possible.

I think they should/will heavily redesign Magcharger to use rechargeable Lithium battery with good heatsink & put the latest LED as hard as possible.


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## download (Feb 4, 2009)

Cydonia said:


> So a PR base drop in could still work, like the old Nite Ize, but one has to use an Allen key (or Hex key) to remove the brass cam wheel. The average Joe won’t be doing this. So that shuts down the option of Maglite Drop In’s for the masses!!! Don’t you guys get it yet?!
> 
> With no threaded collar ring that shuts down the TerraLux style “thread in’s” that use these threads! How can a Malkoff work in these new Maglites?!
> 
> ...



+1 :thumbsup:


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## Marduke (Feb 4, 2009)

Cydonia said:


> So a PR base drop in could still work, like the old Nite Ize, but one has to use an Allen key (or Hex key) to remove the brass cam wheel. The average Joe won’t be doing this. So that shuts down the option of Maglite Drop In’s for the masses!!! Don’t you guys get it yet?!
> 
> With no threaded collar ring that shuts down the TerraLux style “thread in’s” that use these threads! How can a Malkoff work in these new Maglites?!
> 
> ...




If you call this "significant", I feel sorry. Also, this update doesn't block ANY current dropins. Mag will continue to make the incan models for many more years. Very few CPF'ers would be so short-sighted enough to shell out the extra $$ for the LED version for the sole purpose to then put in a 3rd party dropin.


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## zs&tas (Feb 4, 2009)

do we have any idea how long this will take to filter through ?? (uk?) ive only been here a couple of months but have already shelled out too much on my (now house kept) mags to have them as beaters now, i could do with one of these new ones to fill that torch shaped hole in my trunk !! haha


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## The Shadow (Feb 4, 2009)

Cydonia said:


> Maglite has moved to terminate the Nite Ize, TerraLux and Malkoff upgrade modules by making it impossible for these to work in the new Maglites!
> 
> Is this the deal? haha... typical tactics. Instead of coming out with their own Malkoff killer super module they move to block everyone else's modules from working in a new redesigned replacement model Maglite!!



An interesting hypothesis, but how about the incan Mags? Until Mag gets rid of them we'll still have hosts for custom drop-ins. I can't see them dumping incans just yet.

After that, I'm not worried. We all know the ingenuity of CPFers. Someone here will design a killer drop-in for us flashaholics! :twothumbs


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 4, 2009)

american lockpicker said:


> There $20 at the walmart near Parkersburg.


 
Thanks for the Info! Going to Walmart, not Lowe's for the Mag.

Are they all 2D? The 3D was the best Luxeon model performer wasn't it?


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## american lockpicker (Feb 4, 2009)

download said:


> What I see from the pics are:
> 
> 1. Reliable, Reliable, Reliable,
> 2. Run time rather than brightness,
> ...


 
I think that they should keep the Magcharger incan as it has 1 big advantage that no other flashlight today (with the possible exception of Pelican)has it uses USA made bulbs.


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## american lockpicker (Feb 4, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> Thanks for the Info! Going to Walmart, not Lowe's for the Mag.
> 
> Are they all 2D? The 3D was the best Luxeon model performer wasn't it?


 
If home depot carries them and the price is higher they will match it and take an additional 10% off.


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## willrx (Feb 4, 2009)

Does anyone see the Rebel being used in the AA Mini-Mag or AAA Solitaire? Do to the small form factor.


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## american lockpicker (Feb 4, 2009)

I would love to see a solitaire LED. I wonder how high the price would be? It would be nice if it out performed Arc.


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## Marduke (Feb 4, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> Thanks for the Info! Going to Walmart, not Lowe's for the Mag.
> 
> Are they all 2D? The 3D was the best Luxeon model performer wasn't it?



I saw 3D Rebel's at the first Lowes I saw them in.

All the 2xAA and 3xAAA were still Lux 3's.


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## clg0159 (Feb 4, 2009)

Cydonia said:


> So a PR base drop in could still work, like the old Nite Ize, but one has to use an Allen key (or Hex key) to remove the brass cam wheel. The average Joe won’t be doing this. So that shuts down the option of Maglite Drop In’s for the masses!!! Don’t you guys get it yet?!
> 
> With no threaded collar ring that shuts down the TerraLux style “thread in’s” that use these threads! How can a Malkoff work in these new Maglites?!
> 
> ...


 At least we can still rip the guts out and make lights that live up to the name.


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## metlarules (Feb 4, 2009)

download said:


> What I see from the pics are:
> 
> 1. Reliable, Reliable, Reliable,
> 2. Run time rather than brightness,
> ...


 Ding!Ding!Ding! We have a winner!!!!


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## willrx (Feb 4, 2009)

Ok, to my eye, the new 2D LED is brighter than original Mag LED 3D and has more throw. I held the two side by side.


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## Illum (Feb 4, 2009)

willrx said:


> Does anyone see the Rebel being used in the AA Mini-Mag or AAA Solitaire? Do to the small form factor.



minimag yes
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/221793

Solitaire might never happen...


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## download (Feb 4, 2009)

Do they share same LED module housing for 2D & 2AA?


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## JamisonM (Feb 4, 2009)

download said:


> Do they share same LED module housing for 2D & 2AA?


It looks like it. I have a luxeon III 3AA minimag and it has the same type of LED/driver module as my new rebel 2D maglite. I bet you could switch them back and forth too. So, if you have one of the new multi-mode 3AA minimags, you could replace the LED/driver module in one of the new rebel 3D maglites and have a multi-mode maglite.


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 5, 2009)

And I would like the reverse of what you suggest. :twothumbs

Maybe I can get the minimag and swap the module with somebody!


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## eyeeatingfish (Feb 5, 2009)

ace0001a said:


> Yeah somehow I just don't see that happening...and besides, I honestly can't see a single American company satisfying all the needs of every domestic flashaholic. It's like telling a car collector to only buy American, and quite frankly it ain't going to happen unless you strictly focus on collecting said American cars only. For an American company to invest more R&D and actually sell more up to date technology flashlights would make the product more expensive. One needs to only look a domestic company like Inova to see that. Sure they've got LED flashlights in the same price range as Maglites, but their higher end models are noticeably more expensive. If Mag did have higher end flashlights that had more up to date technology, you know they're going to be much more expensive. What they have done now is a good compromise to cater to the general public (which doesn't know any better) and also at the very least catch the interest of us flashlight enthusiasts. As a flashaholic myself, I enjoy variety as well as affordability. I love the Mags I own because I enjoy the ability to mod them. I also love the many different Chinese made flashlights I own too...it's all part of being a flashlight enthusiast as far as I'm concerned.



I dont think we are talking about huge R&D costs here though. It cant cost that much to improve the drop in so that it actually gives some amount of heat sinking ability.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 5, 2009)

willrx said:


> Ok, to my eye, the new 2D LED is brighter than original Mag LED 3D and has more throw. I held the two side by side.


 
How much brighter is it? (are the spot and spill brighter?) Worth a purchase? How is the beam quality with the newer reflector vs the luxeon model re: rings/artifacts?

Current draw info on 2d alks would be great to see if there is a difference between the two, hinting at if Mag has used a new circuit or not. Perhaps readings from first switched on and after 20 minutes (to see if the same thermal throttling is in effect)...


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## willrx (Feb 5, 2009)

The beam quality is not perfect-smooth reflector, at least equal to the Lux though. Outside it is very impressive. It's no secret though, I'm a big Mag fan anyway. My opinion is that it is worth the purchase. Even the serial number is different now-starts with "DL2........" and "PATENTED IN USA" is directly below that. I was able to find (2) consecutive serial numbers-a first for me.


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## willrx (Feb 5, 2009)

Forgot to mention, the module can be rotated without removal from the tower-allows some adjustment of the beam.


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## willrx (Feb 5, 2009)

Another difference I noticed was no spring on the bottom of the switch-where the (+) end of the battery rests.


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## asdalton (Feb 5, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> How much brighter is it? (are the spot and spill brighter?) Worth a purchase? How is the beam quality with the newer reflector vs the luxeon model re: rings/artifacts?
> 
> Current draw info on 2d alks would be great to see if there is a difference between the two, hinting at if Mag has used a new circuit or not. Perhaps readings from first switched on and after 20 minutes (to see if the same thermal throttling is in effect)...



I'd say that the new MagLED 2D is at least 50% brighter than the older MagLED 3D. After the new MagLED 2D has been running for 15 minutes or so, it has dimmed but is still equal to the old MagLED 3D running fresh.

Believe it or not, this new MagLED 2D is the best throwing LED light that I have owned. It even slightly edges out my Pelican 7060 and custom Seoul Mag mod for throw (although both of those have more output). And the ceiling bounce test shows that it has slightly more output than an older Surefire L4 that I own.


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## willrx (Feb 5, 2009)

lovecpf Where else can you get this type of information!


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## f22shift (Feb 5, 2009)

wait, if this is 20 beans and is a good thrower, does that mean the husky 2d loses it's value 
even though mags seems outdated, they do seem like they are good in quality with no to little variation between.


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## zs&tas (Feb 5, 2009)

cant believe it , all the people ive talked to in the uk say i wont see this for more than a year :-( my question is, which is brighter terralux 140 lumen dropin or the new MAG LED ?


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## GPB (Feb 5, 2009)

why isn't Mag advertising this ? Or at least mentioning it on their website ?!?!?!


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## JamisonM (Feb 5, 2009)

GPB said:


> why isn't Mag advertising this ? Or at least mentioning it on their website ?!?!?!


Who knows? I guess they're wanting to do this quietly. Still, you'd at least think you could find news about this on their website.


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## Black Rose (Feb 5, 2009)

It's very odd.

When you go to this link, the banner in the upper left corner of the grid looks kind of like the new packaging shown in the Mini MagLED thread, but it takes you to the info about the old MagLED lights.


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## Toohotruk (Feb 6, 2009)

Interesting...and quite a surprise! I might have to try to get my boss to buy me one of these for work. 

Now to come up with a good way to render the old workhorse Lux III 2D MagLED unusable without being too obvious...


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## ace0001a (Feb 6, 2009)

GPB said:


> The way I look at it though, is that if Surefire, Inova, etc can start from scratch and make a profit on a light that costs over $100, then Mag ought to be able to do the same thing, since they already have the body, head, switch, etc designed and paid for. If they kept their current lineup of lights and then sold a "Super Mag" with a Malkoff-esque emitter in it for $100+ bucks it would sell well, make them a profit, and attract some publicity for them being somewhere near the leading edge of Flashlight technology. When you look at the dollars spent on Terralux drop ins, those monster 3 LED drop ins, Malkoffs, ROP's, and that guy that sells 900 lumen mag mods ( Black Bear Lights ? )...there is a group of people willing and able to spend big bucks on a high power mag light. It baffles me that you can buy a better Mag light from Terralux, than you can from Mag. If you needed a new engine for your Toyota, the FIRST thing you would consider would be a genuine Toyota engine. IF you needed a new LED for your Mag, the LAST thing you would consider would be a genuine Mag LED. That should keep the Mag engineers and marketers awake at night.



Like I said before that Maglites are marketed towards the Average Joe. Minor to moderate improvement on their products are more than good enough for regular people.




GPB said:


> I am not a manufacturing engineer, but it seems like they wouldn't have to "tool up another assembly line" or do any R&D. Go buy a Malkoff or a Terralux and copy it. Then build the lights on the same production line...but take a small batch of regular lights and have the janitor install the new drop ins. Sell them exclusively online so there's very little inventory costs or effort, and not only would they make money, they would create some prestige for their brand. Joe Homeowner is going to love buying his regular Mag light when he sees a light that looks just like it on the cover of Popular Science or at Brookstone for $100 bucks.



Well for one thing, you shouldn't be advocating the notion of copying someone else's product...I know it happens alot in this industry and so there's no need for us to do it. Another thing is that Mag seems to really like their patented focusing mechanism, so for them to go the massive Malkoff Devices heatsinked-type drop-in is out of the question there. As for the Terralux single-emitter drop-ins, they're no better than the original MagLED Luxeon drop-ins as far as heatsinking is concerned, which is hardly any. The only 2 differences are that Terralux uses a higher output emitter (first an SSCP4 U-bin and then a TFFC Luxeon K2) and they're driven slightly harder without any sort of thermal protection. I suppose Mag could've used TFFC Luxeon K2s with their MagLED drop-ins, but instead decided to go with the Luxeon Rebel in a redesigned mount...and probably for cost reasons went with lower output Rebels.




eyeeatingfish said:


> I dont think we are talking about huge R&D costs here though. It cant cost that much to improve the drop in so that it actually gives some amount of heat sinking ability.



It would take more than you think to redesign an adjustable bulb tower that also provides good heatsinking. Again, the repetative theme here is that Maglites are marketed towards the Average Joe. Minor to moderate improvement on their products are more than good enough for regular people.




metlarules said:


> Why go into a upscale market and compete with Surefire,Inova,Pelican and the likes when you can sell led versions of an existing light and make a couple of billion dollars? Keep in mind that CPF is less that 1/10 of a percent of Mags total sales. They cater to the average Joe who considers $50 insane for a flashlight. It would not be worth their while to tool up a different assembly line,invest in more R&D,new packaging and advertisements all during a recession to make the same or less dollars. Mags are good for what they are. Good lights for the masses.



Basically what I've been trying to say.




The Shadow said:


> An interesting hypothesis, but how about the incan Mags? Until Mag gets rid of them we'll still have hosts for custom drop-ins. I can't see them dumping incans just yet. After that, I'm not worried. We all know the ingenuity of CPFers. Someone here will design a killer drop-in for us flashaholics!



This goes along the lines of what else I've been trying to say. I hope they keep making them the same way as I enjoy being able to mod them with aftermarket drop-ins or full on homebrew mods. I wish people would stop whining about it and just accept that. I mean c'mon, how hard is it to buy a Mag and put in whatever aftermaket drop-in yourself? I love Gene Malkoff's products and I'd like to see him continue make products that us flashlight enthusiasts enjoy. Like I said before, what Mag has done with the release of their latest Luxeon Rebel versions is good enough and a fair compromise for both regular people and flashlight enthusiasts.


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## JamisonM (Feb 6, 2009)

zs&tas said:


> cant believe it , all the people ive talked to in the uk say i wont see this for more than a year :-( my question is, which is brighter terralux 140 lumen dropin or the new MAG LED ?


I think think the terralux would be brighter, but the new rebel maglites wouldn't be far behind. I'm going to say this, the 2D maglite with a rebel I purchased is brighter and throws better then my 4D maglite with a luxeon III. I just got done with simple testing. Nothing amazing, I just used a cut down stock maglite reflector with each and pointed them at the same tree canopy about 150ft off. I didn't test the new rebel maglite with the reflector that came with it, but it wouldn't surprise me if it improved throw. Another thing I didn't try is waiting to see if it dims(it would not surprise me in the least if it does) like the luxeon III version do.


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## McAllan (Feb 6, 2009)

zs&tas said:


> cant believe it , all the people ive talked to in the uk say i wont see this for more than a year :-( my question is, which is brighter terralux 140 lumen dropin or the new MAG LED ?



Maybe there's hope 
I was in Sweden recently in "Clas Ohlson" a funny but very nice hardware dealer - I does this from time since a ferry ticket is very cheap and its a short trip. They have dossens of things not available in DK and most a little if not a lot cheaper.
I saw the new 2D with rebel. I didn't realize it was any different than the old 2D except the module. And since I already god a 2D and recently a 3D from a friend I didn't see any need to buy it - thinking I'd just wait for the Mag rebel drop in to appear.
As I realize from this thread that in contrast might take a very long time (if at all). Since I'm "in need" for a drop in for either the 2D or 3D I might give the original drop in a try. I'm not overly excited by the TerraLux TLE6EX-B (SSC version) - which I have one of - because of very cold color temperature and much heat. (Their TLE-300M with Cree is another story though)


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## defloyd77 (Feb 6, 2009)

You might want to try getting your hands on the Terralux with a TFFC K2 (don't know who has them, e-mail around).


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## Phaserburn (Feb 6, 2009)

Just picked one up at Lowe's last night, a silver one. I wasn't going to, but found a $10 off coupon in yesterday's mail, so I got it for around 20 bucks. Had to do it!

It is significantly brighter than the lux3 mags; I tried it against 2 and 3 cell units.

I believe the new Mag has at least a similar circuit to the lux3; I took current readings off fresh alks and again 10 minutes later. The draw at first moment was around 1.2A, but steadily and rapidly declined to around 700ma. This was about the same for the lux3 2 cell unit. I may try this again tonight.

The manufacturer undoubtedly knows this, and finds it acceptable or even desireable. Brightest output for quick momentary flashes of under a minute (like the "turbo" or "boost" button on some headlamps), and then gradual dimming for extended runs up to many hours. Compared to a circuit that simply flat regulates at 700ma from the get-go, this may even be a nice feature for some. It is totally in the eye of the beholder. It reminds me of my Fenix P3D (no, really) in that I always have it set to "turbo", but when the on-time is going to go over a few mins, I switch to high for slightly lower percieved output and to greatly extend the runtime for my primary cells.

I also find that the "new" reflector and tiny Rebel point source seems to focus a bit better than before, and not just for out and out throw (which is better). When fairly tightly focused, the new RebelMag has a brighter corona around the hotspot that is larger than before, allowing it to be used indoors or at closer range a bit more easily, IMHO.

I believe Mag isn't touting this as a huge change, because all of the improvements (reflector, led housing, led type) are behind the scenes ones. They would do better by blending with the lux3 product. The new MM, however, with greatly enhanced features (multimode), is getting alot of splash on their packaging. These strategies seem quite logical to me if the goal is sales and maintenance of their brand image. Let's face it; at 20 bucks, the new multimode MM is one of the baddest boys available in the hardware store for value and quality. I will no doubt get one to play with when they appear.


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## kz1000s1 (Feb 6, 2009)

My Lowes only has 3D Luxeon versions. Can anyone compare the new version to the Husky 2D from Home Depot?


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## PCC (Feb 6, 2009)

Seeing as how I have four D-cell MagLites this thread has really interested me. I'm in no position to buy another MagLite so I'm not about to buy one of these but if anyone in the SFBA has one and wants to compare it to my old 2D MagLED with an SSC P4 swap please contact me by PM. I can bring my camera for beamshots. I'm much closer to SF than SJ.


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## Cydonia (Feb 6, 2009)

PCC said:


> Seeing as how I have four D-cell MagLites this thread has really interested me. I'm in no position to buy another MagLite so I'm not about to buy one of these but if anyone in the SFBA has one and wants to compare it to my old 2D MagLED with an SSC P4 swap please contact me by PM. I can bring my camera for beamshots. I'm much closer to SF than SJ.



I think the SSC mod would be brighter for sure. A modded MagLED module with SSC will still (Superior lumen output specs compared to a Rebel 60) beat out these new Rebel's for a few more years  I say _*years*_ because these new Rebel Mag products will be state of the art for a good 2 years more before Mag's next upgrade! :ironic: 
But by then we'll just swap the old SSC off the MagLED module and pop on another $5 wonder LED from DX  
You'll always be a good 2 years ahead of the curve (Of Maglite that is) when you mod stuff yourself.


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## PCC (Feb 6, 2009)

True, but mine is a warm tint (slightly yellow compared to the other P4s I bought at the same time) U-bin. It's not as bright as it could be (U2-bin or even V-bin would be a lot brighter for the same input).

I really believe that the new MagLED is not as bad as we may believe it to be because we have a more critical eye when it comes to flashlights. For the average Joe, this is probably more light than they need.

Yeah, in two years I'll probably be upgrading the emitter on this one to whatever is state of the art at that time.


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## Big_Ed (Feb 6, 2009)

I bought a 2D Mag Rebel yesterday. It was the only version at my local WalMart. No 3D Rebels or new multi-mode MiniMags as of yet. I must say, I'm impressed. I compared it to my older 3D Mag LuxIII, and the new 2D is brighter. The tint is the same as my Surefire E2DL, a nice warm white. The spill is a bit smaller on the new version, though, but it's still good. I like it, and will get a 3D version when it's available to me locally. I also can't wait to get the multi-mode MiniMags!


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## metlarules (Feb 6, 2009)

I wonder if Maglite is still making separate drivers for 2,3,and 4 cell lights.
It would be nice if the drivers are all the same. Then you could put the minimag multimode driver in a 4d and have killer runtime. Imagine the runtime on the 10 lumens low mode off 4 d cells.


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## JamisonM (Feb 6, 2009)

metlarules said:


> I wonder if Maglite is still making separate drivers for 2,3,and 4 cell lights.
> It would be nice if the drivers are all the same. Then you could put the minimag multimode driver in a 4d and have killer runtime. Imagine the runtime on the 10 lumens low mode off 4 d cells.


It wouldn't surprise me if they were all different. Still, I bet you could take the the LED/driver module out of a 2AA or 3AA minimag and replace the LED/driver module in a 2D or 3D maglite. You could do the same thing with a 3AA minimag and a 4D maglite, but I don't know how well it would work. I did something similar by taking the LED/driver module out of my old 3AA minimag and putting it in my new 2D maglite. It worked fine.


----------



## jabe1 (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm more interested in getting my hands on a new reflector. I just looked at all of my known parts vendors and they only have the old style.


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## outersquare (Feb 7, 2009)

i got around to comparing new 2D mag and 6D mag with SSC terralux TLE-6EX, the new mag is brighter


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## jzmtl (Feb 7, 2009)

PCC said:


> True, but mine is a warm tint (slightly yellow compared to the other P4s I bought at the same time) U-bin. It's not as bright as it could be (U2-bin or even V-bin would be a lot brighter for the same input).



U bin puts out 91 lumens mininum, still heck lot more than rebel 60.


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## defloyd77 (Feb 7, 2009)

outersquare said:


> i got around to comparing new 2D mag and 6D mag with SSC terralux TLE-6EX, the new mag is brighter



oo:


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## PCC (Feb 7, 2009)

jzmtl said:


> U bin puts out 91 lumens mininum, still heck lot more than rebel 60.


Really? It doesn't seem _that_ bright.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 7, 2009)

I just tried an acrylite lens in mine, and it's great. Very little loss, hard to even notice, and the very faint diffusion smooths the spot and corona very nicely, making opening up the beam from spot to something a bit wider a nice option with no artifacts or rings. With this lens, there are no rings in spot mode, either. I was going with a UCL, and ended up trying this one just because.


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## Cydonia (Feb 7, 2009)

What about the tail cap of these new MagLED flashlights? They obviously don't come with a spare bulb in the tail cap anymore :laughing:
So... is it just an empty socket in the tail cap? Or did they redesign the cap's so there isn't a wasted space there? For D size Mag's, that "spare bulb space" can hold a Photon keychain light as a whole micro "backup" light


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## Big_Ed (Feb 7, 2009)

Cydonia said:


> What about the tail cap of these new MagLED flashlights? They obviously don't come with a spare bulb in the tail cap anymore :laughing:
> So... is it just an empty socket in the tail cap? Or did they redesign the cap's so there isn't a wasted space there? For D size Mag's, that "spare bulb space" can hold a Photon keychain light as a whole micro "backup" light



The space is still there, but the spring is wound up tight at the end where it makes contact with the ridge in the tailcap, so it makes it impossible to put a Photon light in there. You'd have to trim the spring, but that would work, and would be easy.


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## :)> (Feb 7, 2009)

Would the original tailcaps still work?


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## Big_Ed (Feb 7, 2009)

:)> said:


> Would the original tailcaps still work?



Yes, the D cell tailcaps are fully interchangeable between new and old. I just checked, and the springs are the same on the older Mags too. They would need to be trimmed to put a Photon light in there.


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## darknessemitter (Feb 8, 2009)

outersquare said:


> i got around to comparing new 2D mag and 6D mag with SSC terralux TLE-6EX, the new mag is brighter


 
Wow. Are you sure the Terralux hasn't suffered any prior damage from overheating?


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## outersquare (Feb 8, 2009)

darknessemitter said:


> Wow. Are you sure the Terralux hasn't suffered any prior damage from overheating?


 
the 6D terralux is a lightly used garage queen so its never been damaged.

http://www.csupomona.edu/~jcwang3/terralux_vs_mag2d.jpg

http://www.csupomona.edu/~jcwang3/e2dl_vs_mag2d.jpg


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## Sabre (Feb 8, 2009)

Still no outdoor beamshots?


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## :)> (Feb 8, 2009)

Here are a few observations of the new Mag:

The new 2D Rebel Mag is longer than the 2D Luxeon Mag by a bit more than .25"
The reflector for the 2D Rebel Mag is deeper than the Luxeon Mag reflectors
The module holding the Rebel appears to have a bit more metal around it and it does not look to be removeable
Legacy Mag reflectors will not work with the Rebel Mag; I tried the original Mag reflector, a KD cammed reflector and a camless Modamag reflector
The output from the new 2D Rebel Mag is significantly brighter than the 2D Luxeon Mag and is as bright as my 3D Malkoff; it also has a more intense hot-spot than my 3D Malkoff as start up by a noticeable margin
The tint on mine is very nice, like noon sunlight
Here are some pictures of the new Mag (the last shot shows the hot-spot from the Rebel Mag on the left and the 3D Malkoff on the right):


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## metlarules (Feb 8, 2009)

Is the .25" difference in the head or the battery tube?


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## qip (Feb 8, 2009)

on par vs a 3d malkoff ...thats scary thinking maglite put a product out there making my malkoff near obsolete  ....does that deep reflector work for seoul leds !!!! it looks so tempting to use it for seoul mags


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## JamisonM (Feb 8, 2009)

qip said:


> on par vs a 3d malkoff ...thats scary thinking maglite put a product out there making my malkoff near obsolete  ....does that deep reflector work for seoul leds !!!! it looks so tempting to use it for seoul mags


You're malkoff is not near obsolete, these new mags are not on par with Gene's P4 maglite drop-ins. It may seem so because of the deep reflector, but Gene's drop-in puts out more light easily. 

The deep reflector does work with a seoul and creates a hot spot that fades into the side spill as well as lessing the side spill. I'm currently using it in a 4D maglite with one of Gene's drop-ins. The only problem you're going to encounter is that you will have to push his drop-in deeper into the battery tube because of the deeper reflector. 

I used a maglite switch that had its cam cut off and wire soldered to the its contacts; just like if I were going to do a regular seoul P4 mod. Gene's drop-in goies nearly three quarters of an inch down into the battery tube and this allows the head with the new reflector to be screwed on all the way(past the o-ring). 

As for how well it throws, I'm still a bit up in the air about it, but it seems the new reflector puts light out just a little bit further than a stock reflector, but side spill it less; like a cree IMO.



metlarules said:


> Is the .25" difference in the head or the battery tube?


There's no difference in overall length of the battery tube or any of the maglite components that I can see. My new maglite does have less threads for the head to screw on though.


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## jabe1 (Feb 8, 2009)

Just picked one up... _very _surprised at the output. I'm waiting for dark to put it up against my P4 modded 2C which I believe is putting out approx. 140lm.
First guess is that the new one will do better and have more throw! Defined hotspot and as others have said, less side spill.


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## arioch (Feb 8, 2009)

I bought the Mag Rebel this past Thursday and have been using it at work (golf course at night). It has a very nice and bright hotspot but very dim side spill. It is very much an improvement over the Lux3 model, and I was pleasantly surprised. 

The Mag Rebel hotspot is comparable in brightness, shape, size, and throw to my Husky 2D Cree. However, the spill from the Husky is brighter than the spill from the Mag Rebel. 

In comparing to my Dorcy 220 Lumen Rechargeable, the Dorcy's hotspot is more defined and bright, and also has more throw. The Dorcy spill is also considerably brighter than the Mag Rebel spill. 

Although one of the above posts seems to indicate that the Mag Rebel "beats" the Malkoff SSC P4 in a Mag 3D, it doesn't really in anything but hotspot throw (distance) and possibly a very short distance white wall or floor shot (due to the Mag Rebel hotspot). The Malkoff puts out a whole lot more light both up close and at a distance. 

Although I was impressed at the hotspot in both brightness and throw, which is superior to (Taskforce 2C Cree), equal to (Husky 2D Cree), or almost on par with (Dorcy Cree Rechargeable) other moderately priced B&M "throwers", a drawback I see is that the spill beam of the Mag Rebel is very diffuse compared to its hotspot, even more so than for the 3 aforementioned "throwers". 

For lightsaber lovers who enjoy shining their lights into the night sky, though (I am one of those ), this is a very nice light for the price.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 8, 2009)

Current draw after a 30 minute burn: 750ma from nimh D cells. It must be sending around 450ma or so to the emitter at this point, I'd think. That would be well over the rated 60 lumens at 350ma after being throttled down for heat. The metal housing around the led was decently hot.


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## darknessemitter (Feb 8, 2009)

:)> said:


>


 
Does that look like a waffle pattern to you guys??? TFFC??


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## rockz4532 (Feb 8, 2009)

Looks a lot like TFFC to me, I can definetly see the wafle shape. Aren't those still recalled? Maybe this is why they upgraded, maybe they gave mag a good deal on them since they were recalled?


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## Marduke (Feb 8, 2009)

:)> said:


>




Anyone else notice the waffle grid indicative of a TFFC model??


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## LukeA (Feb 8, 2009)

darknessemitter said:


> Does that look like a waffle pattern to you guys??? TFFC??



Yep that's a TFFC. 

TFFC Rebel:





Non-TFFC Rebel:


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## farmer17 (Feb 8, 2009)

Just came from Academy and they had the new Maglite 2D Rebel in the modified packaging for a little over 27 bucks. The 3D LED was the same old thing and they didn't have any C Maglites, which I would love to have a 2C with the updated LED.


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## Stress_Test (Feb 8, 2009)

WARNING! Reliability problems!! 

I bought one of these at Lowes just today, and it's been my first bad flashlight experience since I started my modest collection.

It started when I put the batteries in for the first time, clicked the switch, and it didn't light up. I double checked to make sure I'd gotten the polarity right, then wiped the end of the battery tube with my finger (because there was some kind of packaging film/residue all over the light. The light worked after that, but not for long...

I later noticed a little flicker when I set the light down on the ground when turned on. I picked it up and gave it a shake. POOF! light goes out. I shake it again, and it comes on very very dimly. 

I took the tailcap off and cleaned all the contact surfaces with alcohol. I put the cap back on and it works. I smack it around with my hand and it still works. I think that everything's ok now. Wrong!!

Later, I decide to give it a little drop test onto the carpet from about 2 to 3 feet. POOF!! light goes out. I drop it again, and the light comes back on. 

I take the head off, and rotate and push on the emitter housing in case there's any junk on the contacts in there. I put it back together and it works. I smack it around some and it still works. I give it one final smack and POOF! light goes out. 

Looks like I'll be returning this one to Lowes soon.

It's too bad, really. Both my dad and I have 3D Maglites that are something like 20 years old, and they've never had a problem. Guess this just goes to show that any flashlight, be it a Maglite, Fenix, or SureFire, can have problems.

Hope you guys have better luck than I did.


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## Burgess (Feb 8, 2009)

So, have the flashlight dimensions 

*changed*, or *not* ? ? ?




_


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## asdalton (Feb 8, 2009)

No problems with mine.

The two new Mini-Mag LED lights that I bought work well, too. The older Luxeon 2AA model that I bought in 2006 had some flickering problems until I cleaned the switch.


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## asdalton (Feb 8, 2009)

Burgess said:


> So, have the flashlight dimensions
> 
> *changed*, or *not* ? ? ?
> 
> ...



Not.


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## Stress_Test (Feb 8, 2009)

This rattled my cage a bit. I think I'm going to go and give all my other lights a drop test to make sure they keep working and there are no nasty surprises when I need a light.


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## asdalton (Feb 8, 2009)

Stress_Test said:


> This rattled my cage a bit. I think I'm going to go and give all my other lights a drop test to make sure they keep working and there are no nasty surprises when I need a light.



I wouldn't worry too much. Your Mag had trouble right out of the package. That's not technically a reliability problem, since the failure was evident right away.


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## defloyd77 (Feb 9, 2009)

A Cree Q2 5A from my understanding is really a Q5 with more phosphor, so it gets the Q2 bin because it's less bright. I'm thinking the same with this 60 as it's clearly a TFFC, so maybe an 80 (or maybe higher) with more phosphor = 60? That would explain why there's no 60 in neutral or cool white.


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## Toohotruk (Feb 9, 2009)

Stress_Test said:


> This rattled my cage a bit. I think I'm going to go and give all my other lights a drop test to make sure they keep working and there are no nasty surprises when I need a light.



Judging by your username, I'd have thought those kinds of "tests" would be a way of life for you...


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## Lit Up (Feb 9, 2009)

zs&tas said:


> well mags reliability has just gone down hill hasnt it ? cant replace the led/bulb if it goes wrong or gets dropped ? itl just be a useless baton in 5 years - DOH i best buy some good ol pr based ones before there all gone.



They pretty much did away with that advantage. Having done that also places them right into the thick of the competition fire and when Coleman is already doing Cree emitters, you might wanna go better than an outdated Rebel. It's all about emitters and who's packing the latest and greatest from here on out. I have a 2D Brinkmann around that is very similar, I imagine it wouldn't be a far stretch for them to update their emitters if they haven't already.


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## BP2000 (Feb 9, 2009)

I had this problem as well. It turns out that the hole is too small where the positive button of the D cell makes contact with the switch. I took out the switch assembly and carefully reamed out the plastic around the contact with an Xacto Knife. I then reassembled the light. Now I can bang the light around without any kind of flicker.


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## LukeA (Feb 9, 2009)

Lit Up said:


> They pretty much did away with that advantage. Having done that also places them right into the thick of the competition fire and when Coleman is already doing Cree emitters, you might wanna go better than an outdated Rebel. It's all about emitters and who's packing the latest and greatest from here on out. I have a 2D Brinkmann around that is very similar, I imagine it wouldn't be a far stretch for them to update their emitters if they haven't already.



IIRC, there is no 060 TFFC Rebel. If the number on the board means anything it has to be 090.


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## mikekoz (Feb 9, 2009)

farmer17 said:


> Just came from Academy and they had the new Maglite 2D Rebel in the modified packaging for a little over 27 bucks. The 3D LED was the same old thing and they didn't have any C Maglites, which I would love to have a 2C with the updated LED.


 

I could be wrong, but I do not believe Maglite makes the C cell lights any more. I have two of the 4 cell versions and I have had them for a long time. I have not seen them in stores for years and I do not believe they are on their webpage.

Mike


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## Marduke (Feb 9, 2009)

mikekoz said:


> I could be wrong, but I do not believe Maglite makes the C cell lights any more. I have two of the 4 cell versions and I have had them for a long time. I have not seen them in stores for years and I do not believe they are on their webpage.
> 
> Mike



Sure they still make them. They are not as common in stores, but I still see them. They are right here on the website.


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## mikekoz (Feb 9, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Sure they still make them. They are not as common in stores, but I still see them. They are right here on the website.


 

DOH!!!!!:green:


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## lightinsky (Feb 9, 2009)

LukeA said:


> IIRC, there is no 060 TFFC Rebel. If the number on the board means anything it has to be 090.


 
Are you saying that it is being read incorrectly upside down as 060 and that it is actually 090? That would mean the lumens are much greater if there is no such thing as an 060 bin rebel.


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## willrx (Feb 9, 2009)

BP2000 said:


> I had this problem as well. It turns out that the hole is too small where the positive button of the D cell makes contact with the switch. I took out the switch assembly and carefully reamed out the plastic around the contact with an Xacto Knife. I then reassembled the light. Now I can bang the light around without any kind of flicker.



I was hoping the removal of the small spring on the bottom of the switch was not going to be a problem-we'll have to wait and see.


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## Cydonia (Feb 9, 2009)

lightinsky said:


> Are you saying that it is being read incorrectly upside down as 060 and that it is actually 090? That would mean the lumens are much greater if there is no such thing as an 060 bin rebel.













​


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## mikekoz (Feb 9, 2009)

Cydonia said:


>


 

I wonder if that mark there by the "0" has anything to do with how one reads that??:thinking:


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## tebore (Feb 9, 2009)

LukeA said:


> IIRC, there is no 060 TFFC Rebel. If the number on the board means anything it has to be 090.



AFAIK only the rebel >80 are TFFC. 
I was surprised when someone posted that the mag had a TFFC rebel. 

Based on what people are saying about brightness looks like it really might be a rebel 90. It was probably cheaper for mag to get large lots of TFFC rebels thanks to economies of scale.


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## likeguymontag (Feb 9, 2009)

tebore said:


> AFAIK only the rebel >80 are TFFC.
> I was surprised when someone posted that the mag had a TFFC rebel.
> 
> Based on what people are saying about brightness looks like it really might be a rebel 90. It was probably cheaper for mag to get large lots of TFFC rebels thanks to economies of scale.



Mag may even be a large enough customer to get products that aren't available to the general public, who knows? Also, I keep seeing people claim that the only Rebels that are TFFC are 80 and greater. How do they know this? Can anyone point me toward a source?


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## europachris (Feb 9, 2009)

mikekoz said:


> I wonder if that mark there by the "0" has anything to do with how one reads that??:thinking:


 
I would read that as a "dash" 090, as would be engineering drawings with "dash" suffixes to denote part variations.

Therefore, if I was basically clueless to LED nomenclature (which I'm learning), I'd have picked up the light and read it as a -090, which then to me, means it's a bin 90 Rebel, and TFFC from the pattern.

However, I have a River Rock 2xAA Nightfire with an advertized "Rebel 60" that appears to also be a waffle pattern emitter. Beam tint is definitely warmer than my Energizer 1xAA with the Cree XR-C, and similar in output, maybe a bit more.

Interesting mystery.....

Chris


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## jzmtl (Feb 9, 2009)

Maybe email lumiled and ask them how it should be read?


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## LukeA (Feb 9, 2009)

tebore said:


> AFAIK only the rebel >80 are TFFC.
> I was surprised when someone posted that the mag had a TFFC rebel.
> 
> Based on what people are saying about brightness looks like it really might be a rebel 90. It was probably cheaper for mag to get large lots of TFFC rebels thanks to economies of scale.



Another thing I remember from the old Rebel threads it that the 090 is the cheapest Rebel on a per lumen basis, i.e. say you want 1000lm from Rebels for the lowest price. The 090 is the one you will pick.


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## metlarules (Feb 9, 2009)

europachris said:


> I would read that as a "dash" 090, as would be engineering drawings with "dash" suffixes to denote part variations.
> 
> Therefore, if I was basically clueless to LED nomenclature (which I'm learning), I'd have picked up the light and read it as a -090, which then to me, means it's a bin 90 Rebel, and TFFC from the pattern.
> 
> ...


I agree. I would also read that as -090.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 9, 2009)

My Mag Rebel does _*not*_ have a warm tint; it leans toward violet.


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## outersquare (Feb 9, 2009)

europachris said:


> I would read that as a "dash" 090, as would be engineering drawings with "dash" suffixes to denote part variations.
> 
> Therefore, if I was basically clueless to LED nomenclature (which I'm learning), I'd have picked up the light and read it as a -090, which then to me, means it's a bin 90 Rebel, and TFFC from the pattern.


 

yes, if you read their spec sheet on their website, they denote the variants as -00x0


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## tebore (Feb 9, 2009)

LukeA said:


> Another thing I remember from the old Rebel threads it that the 090 is the cheapest Rebel on a per lumen basis, i.e. say you want 1000lm from Rebels for the lowest price. The 090 is the one you will pick.



That's what I remember as well. 

The lowest rebel TFFC was the 80 but the one they would yield mostly was the 90.


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## Black Rose (Feb 9, 2009)

I wonder how long it will be until these make their way to Canadian stores....


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## darknessemitter (Feb 9, 2009)

europachris said:


> However, I have a River Rock 2xAA Nightfire with an advertized "Rebel 60" that appears to also be a waffle pattern emitter.


 
Mine also has the waffle pattern. Assuming there really are no TFFC Rebels below 80, I've been guessing that they were playing it safe with the specs because they weren't sure if they could get enough higher bin Rebels at the time.


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## :)> (Feb 9, 2009)

I guess it is a Rebel -090... nice... I am glad that I wasn't successful in my search through the entire Wal Mart stock to get an -080 Rebel. I was going to be clever and see if one slipped by; I would have been cheating myself out of some efficiency and brightness.


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## LukeA (Feb 9, 2009)

:)> said:


> I guess it is a Rebel -090... nice... I am glad that I wasn't successful in my search through the entire Wal Mart stock to get an -080 Rebel. I was going to be clever and see if one slipped by; I would have been cheating myself out of some efficiency and brightness.



Otherwise you would have had to buy both and compare. :ironic:


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## :)> (Feb 9, 2009)

LukeA said:


> Otherwise you would have had to buy both and compare. :ironic:


 


You know me too well... or you know you too well and as a result you know me too well:thinking:


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## LEDmodMan (Feb 9, 2009)

Given that most who have purchased these so far have said the tint leans toward the cooler side, I think it is safe to say that these Rebels must be the 090 variant (the 060 part # is conspicuously missing from the cool white and neutral white colors on the data sheet). I also believe the number on the LED should be read as -090 (dash 090), further indication these are indeed the 090 parts.

Having said that, this is good news people! That is 90 emitter Lumens at spec. of 350mA (160 Lumens @ 700mA), which it sounds like is at least the level these are being driven at in the [email protected] Thermal efficiency is good at these lower drive levels too, which means that they don't really have much of a heatsink requirement.

All in all, a good step forward for [email protected] (did I really just say that???) Something nobody here would have believed several years ago. This is almost as shocking as when the [email protected] came out.


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## MonkRX (Feb 9, 2009)

If these are really Rebel 090's, hopefully this is a sign that Lumiled's are ramping up production of more Rebels, preferebly 090 bin and up. This could be good news not just for Mag-lovers but for everyone. 

Hopefully availability of Rebels will shoot back up within the next 4 months, especially R100's and up. ^_^


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## Stress_Test (Feb 9, 2009)

Toohotruk said:


> Judging by your username, I'd have thought those kinds of "tests" would be a way of life for you...



Indeed, but an unexpected failure is never a good day! 

In this case the "stress test" consisted of me thumping the light with my hand and dropping it on the carpet, and the light definitely failed those tests!

I'll probably just turn this one back in and get the credit back on my card. Not like I need another light!! 

You guys that have these lights, you might try knocking them around some to make sure they don't cut off.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 9, 2009)

:)> said:


> Here are a few observations of the new Mag:
> 
> The new 2D Rebel Mag is longer than the 2D Luxeon Mag by a bit more than .25"
> The reflector for the 2D Rebel Mag is deeper than the Luxeon Mag reflectors
> ...




I was in Wallyworld today and saw 2D Rebel Mags for $35.99. I could not EVEN pull the trigger at that price.

A little later I was at Academy Sports and they were $24.99 there. So I got one.

I agree with the size difference. The head is the same size and the body is. The head just doesn't go down on the body as much as the shoulder that stops the head is about 1/4" higher on the rebel.

I agree that the reflectors will not interchange. Neither newer on older light or the other way around.

The Rebel SMOKES a 2 cell Lux I already had. It also has brighter spill by quite a bit. It also focuses to a tighter more cohesive spot. Fixin' to try a 3cell Lux against it.

So far I am happy I bit on this light.

Edit: 3 Cell doesn't stand a chance! This smokes that as well!


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 9, 2009)

Now I saw all the posts about 060- or -090.

Mine does have the waffle pattern.

It is NOT warm white. But not badly tinted either.


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## likeguymontag (Feb 9, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> [stuff]



You're not supposed to include photos in quotes on this board, I think.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 9, 2009)

I'll take my lumps. It does get the points across.


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## Cydonia (Feb 9, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> Edit: 3 Cell doesn't stand a chance! This smokes that as well!



The 2 cell beats the 3 cell model? Nice. The old Luxeon III drop in's were all different outputs - the 3 cell was 25% brighter than the 2 cell and 10% brighter than the 4 cell. The old flashlightreviews.com MagLED review exposed this interesting fact in July 2006. $24.99 was a very low price. Who could ever recommend anyone buy a TerraLux drop in now? Even a Malkoff Maglite drop in at $49 that uses an SSC P4 led doesn't make sense anymore... You could buy *2* of these new Rebel LED Maglites for the price of a basic Malkoff. Just wait till the multi mode Mag's are out. It's like... Mag has undercut all the drop in's. :wave:

Yeah, quoting pictures makes no sense at all. Waste of space and bandwidth. :shakehead


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## f22shift (Feb 10, 2009)

that's progress.
it's like with the p7 came out. now everyone can own a 700 lumen handlight. devalued the mulit emitter custom ones too.


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## ZMZ67 (Feb 10, 2009)

farmer17 said:


> Just came from Academy and they had the new Maglite 2D Rebel in the modified packaging for a little over 27 bucks. The 3D LED was the same old thing and they didn't have any C Maglites, which I would love to have a 2C with the updated LED.


 
When I e-mailed Mag last year about availability of colors the return message stated that they would have a C-cell LED light that would "knock my socks off".Knowing Mags reputation I didn't get too excited but now I wonder if we will see a 2C with this upgrade.Nice to see the Rebel is probably a 90 but I still would like to see a warmer tint for outdoor use.If they do release a 2C I would like to get one.I may even get one of the 2D models if I find it at a good price.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 10, 2009)

the OP should change the title of this thread to read, "upgraded to a TFFC Rebel 90!". Then there will be even more posts than there are now...


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## Marduke (Feb 10, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> the OP should change the title of this thread to read, "upgraded to a TFFC Rebel 90!". Then there will be even more posts than there are now...



If I see positive confirmation of such, I will.


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## lonesouth (Feb 10, 2009)

I have mixed emotions about this. Bad because I just bought a malkoff for my dad, and it is awesome, but cost $58 to my door. Good because that means I can save a few bucks and get one for myself without the wife getting upset 

Can someone confirm that this is indeed better on paper than the malkoff? Lumen output, runtime and maybe side by side beam shots?


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## PCC (Feb 10, 2009)

ZMZ67 said:


> If they do release a 2C I would like to get one.


Get ready to spend some money. Good info. I'm going to get one of these, too.


----------



## asdalton (Feb 10, 2009)

lonesouth said:


> Can someone confirm that this is indeed better on paper than the malkoff? Lumen output, runtime and maybe side by side beam shots?



Better in what way? I doubt that it has more output than the Malkoff drop-in. I have a custom 3D Mag mod with a Seoul USW0H driven at > 900 mA. It puts out more light than the new 2D Mag LED. But the new 2D Mag has more throw, due to its smaller light source.


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## Monocrom (Feb 10, 2009)

lonesouth said:


> Can someone confirm that this is indeed better on paper than the malkoff? Lumen output, runtime and maybe side by side beam shots?


 
You're forgetting one other important factor.... Quality.

I've had Maglites that fell apart in my hands. Including a 3D model that I relied on as my main light in my car. It literally fell apart in my hands when I went to check if it needed new batteries or possibly a new bulb, after it wouldn't switch on one day. 

Gene's creations are a whole different story. My handmade M60 is a brass jewel that I'll never part with. In terms of both quality and output, it's what the Surefire P61L should have been.

While I still own Maglites, none are used for anything truly important.


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## asdalton (Feb 10, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that he was talking about the Malkoff drop-in for the Mag, not the Malkoff M60.


----------



## lonesouth (Feb 10, 2009)

Thanks, I know that Gene's is quality. I work for a defense contractor and we do a lot of one off pieces that are not near as nice as what I got from Gene. I just wanted affirmation that I did the right thing getting the Malkoff instead of a new Mag.


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## kramer5150 (Feb 10, 2009)

Marduke said:


> If I see positive confirmation of such, I will.




Curious... doesn't the waffle pattern on the phosphor indicate a BIN higher than 80?... not trying to stir things, just trying to clarify my own understanding a bit.


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## Sabre (Feb 10, 2009)

Nine pages and eleven days later, and still no outdoor beamshots?


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## Marduke (Feb 10, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> Curious... doesn't the waffle pattern on the phosphor indicate a BIN higher than 80?... not trying to stir things, just trying to clarify my own understanding a bit.



Does it? Is anyone POSITIVE? Has anyone posted hard data supporting that?

So far we are all just guessing because Lumileds wasn't smart enough to mark it as a 6 or a 9 so it would be crystal clear.


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## Blue72 (Feb 10, 2009)

Sabre said:


> Nine pages and eleven days later, and still no outdoor beamshots?



I agree

where are the outdoor beamshots!


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## kramer5150 (Feb 10, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Does it? Is anyone POSITIVE? Has anyone posted hard data supporting that?
> 
> So far we are all just guessing because Lumileds wasn't smart enough to mark it as a 6 or a 9 so it would be crystal clear.



Oh OK I see.

FWIW bay area CPF'ers, I was at the Milpitas home depot store in the great mall and they had two of these in stock for $31.

I passed though, being more interested in the multi-mode 2AA MM, which they didn't have.


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## ZMZ67 (Feb 10, 2009)

PCC said:


> Get ready to spend some money. Good info. I'm going to get one of these, too.


 
Thanks, I will be looking out for those lights!

It looks like this is going to be a better option than the TerraLUX drop-ins but I don't think they are as competative with the Malkoff.Even if they are bright initially they have no heatsinking and the output has to drop down.The Malkoff offers real heatsinkiing so it can remain bright.
I would also like to see confirmation of what the LED is for sure.It looks like a Rebel 90 but it is not inconceivable that Lumileds produced a Rebel 60 TFFC.A TFFC Rebel 60 may be OK but there is certainly going to be an efficiency difference between the 60 and 90.


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## GPB (Feb 10, 2009)

OK...we need to get the FlashlightReviews.com guy to come out of retirement and get to the bottom of this !!! Someone send him a multimode minimag, 2D Mag rebel 60/90, and one of those Icons while we're at it.


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## Blue72 (Feb 10, 2009)

GPB said:


> OK...we need to get the FlashlightReviews.com guy to come out of retirement and get to the bottom of this !!! Someone send him a multimode minimag, 2D Mag rebel 60/90, and one of those Icons while we're at it.



I think his cpf username is quickbeam


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## Cydonia (Feb 10, 2009)

We need user Newbie to also come out of retirement and pull apart one of these new Mag's and tell us how crappy it really is. Where are the electrical engineers when you need them today? His legendary dissection and fact finding report on the old Luxeon III MagLED was a killer. Ripped that MagLED a new one big time by exposing the crappy design and corner cutting in that circuit implementation :devil:


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## geepondy (Feb 10, 2009)

Guys, between Lowes, Home Depot, Target and Walmart, which one has the best price for this light?


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 10, 2009)

Buy me a decent Digital Camera (and it needs to be a Canon DSLR so I can use all my 35mm lenses like fisheye and short zooms) and I'll take all the outdoor shots you can handle!


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## f22shift (Feb 10, 2009)

saw this at home depot for $31
not in my local target yet


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## rockz4532 (Feb 10, 2009)

Not in my local walmart yet either.


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## rockz4532 (Feb 10, 2009)

So the TFFC rebels aren't recalled any more?


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## defloyd77 (Feb 10, 2009)

rockz4532 said:


> So the TFFC rebels aren't recalled any more?



Nope, just ones that were made from a certain date to another date, neither of which I know.


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## Lit Up (Feb 11, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> Buy me a decent Digital Camera (and it needs to be a Canon DSLR so I can use all my 35mm lenses like fisheye and short zooms) and I'll take all the outdoor shots you can handle!



I must say, for a big box purchase, this sucker has some very respectable throw. Now just need 2C model.


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## Braddah_Bill (Feb 11, 2009)

Wal Mart Hawaii has them for $38 and Lowes for $39, on special for $29, so I don't have to tell you where I got it from.

I played with it for awhile and liked it,:thumbsup: it now rides in my truck with a UCL installed.

Now just waiting for the 2AA to hit the shelves.



Bill


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## Monocrom (Feb 11, 2009)

asdalton said:


> I'm pretty sure that he was talking about the Malkoff drop-in for the Mag, not the Malkoff M60.


 
Gene's creations are all high quality. Whether it's his M60 or Maglite drop-in, it's still a Malkoff. 

Same as a BMW is a BMW. It could be a coupe, sedan, or even a hatchback.... it's still a BMW.


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## Toohotruk (Feb 11, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> Gene's creations are all high quality. Whether it's his M60 or Maglite drop-in, it's still a Malkoff.
> 
> Same as a BMW is a BMW. It could be a coupe, sedan, or even a hatchback.... it's still a BMW.




I couldn't agree more...I would trust my life to any Malkoff drop-in. I have several different flavors, Mag style and M60 and I would be stunned if one of them failed to fire up with good batteries.


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## Sabre (Feb 11, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> Buy me a decent Digital Camera (and it needs to be a Canon DSLR so I can use all my 35mm lenses like fisheye and short zooms) and I'll take all the outdoor shots you can handle!



At this point I'd be happy for a while if somebody even went outside with an antique polaroid camera and took a few shots, then scanned them.


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## copperfox (Feb 11, 2009)

rockz4532 said:


> So the TFFC rebels aren't recalled any more?



They are not recalled anymore. But just like the peanut butter recall, business won't use that product for a while after it's been deemed safe. They can't risk making peanut butter that will burn out in the first hour or a flashlight that gives people salmonella. :laughing:

Bump for outdoor beamshots!


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## rmteo (Feb 11, 2009)

My local Home Depot has them for $31.98 and Lowe's for $29.94. Picked up 2 of them (1 black, 1 silver) at HD and they priced matched Lowe's plus an additional 10% discount. Final price paid was $26.95 (+ tax). :twothumbs


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## Illum (Feb 11, 2009)

f22shift said:


> saw this at home depot for $31
> not in my local target yet



Home Depot restocked the luxeon magLEDs
our Target seems to have eradicated their shelf for flashlights, I can't find it anywhere. Another customer saw me looking around and thought I had lost my wallet


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## gswitter (Feb 11, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> FWIW bay area CPF'ers, I was at the Milpitas home depot store in the great mall and they had two of these in stock for $31.
> 
> I passed though, being more interested in the multi-mode 2AA MM, which they didn't have.


The Home Depot in Campbell had a fresh box of 2D's (half of them black, the other half pewter) for $31.96 a piece. As I was leaving, I noticed a dozen 2AA's (also half black and half pewter) for $22.96 (I think) hiding up next to the battery display near the cashiers.

The Fry's across the street only stocked the Lux III models.


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## GPB (Feb 11, 2009)

OK Guys....I just picked up the new Mag LED, put fresh batteries in it, my 3D terralux mag, my 3D Mag LED and my camera. I'm going out to find someplace dark and lonely and I'll take some shots. I'm new at beam shots, so I'm sure I won't please everyone...but I'll do what I can......see you all in an hour or so.....


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## geepondy (Feb 11, 2009)

Question about flashlights at Lowes. I went to my local N. MA Lowes and there was a flashlight stand right by the registers. Alas they only had the 3W version of the MagLed 2D. Are there also flashlights located anywhere else in the store? They had a lot of the 3W's, I hope they aren't waiting for them to sell out before replacing.


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## likeguymontag (Feb 11, 2009)

geepondy said:


> Question about flashlights at Lowes. I went to my local N. MA Lowes and there was a flashlight stand right by the registers. Alas they only had the 3W version of the MagLed 2D. Are there also flashlights located anywhere else in the store? They had a lot of the 3W's, I hope they aren't waiting for them to sell out before replacing.



At Lowes all the flashlights are by the registers in my experience. At Home Depot, the bulk of the flashlights are _not_ by the registers; they're in some other aisle of miscellany or sometimes in Tool World.


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## Marduke (Feb 11, 2009)

geepondy said:


> Question about flashlights at Lowes. I went to my local N. MA Lowes and there was a flashlight stand right by the registers. Alas they only had the 3W version of the MagLed 2D. Are there also flashlights located anywhere else in the store? They had a lot of the 3W's, I hope they aren't waiting for them to sell out before replacing.



They only have lights at the light kiosk. IIRC, they are all advertised as "3Watt". To know the difference, you have to physically look at the LED. The Lux III and Rebel look distinctly different.


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## geepondy (Feb 11, 2009)

So there is nothing on the package to differentiate the new from the old?



Marduke said:


> They only have lights at the light kiosk. IIRC, they are all advertised as "3Watt". To know the difference, you have to physically look at the LED. The Lux III and Rebel look distinctly different.


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## Marduke (Feb 11, 2009)

geepondy said:


> So there is nothing on the package to differentiate the new from the old?



They removed mention and graphics related to the ability to change between LED and incan bulbs, but it's not obvious if you don't know exactly what to look for.

Just look at the LED to tell if it's old or new. There are plenty of pics upthread of the new module.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 11, 2009)

If you look at the front of the package the Luxeon models has a picture showing incandescent and LED interchangeable.

Rebel models don't have that pic.


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## GPB (Feb 11, 2009)

OK...go easy on me.....as these are my first beam shots. The wall that I was using is a yellowish wall, which doesn't help people looking for tint characteristics...sorrry. My initial impressions were that it didn't seem all that bright, but it was in fact brighter than my Terralux for 2 or 3 cells. It was also brighter than the 4D Mag incan that the Police officer who wanted to know what I was doing was carrying...but not as bright as his spotlight...


awww crud...I gotta find somewhere to post these things....


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## GPB (Feb 11, 2009)

Here's an old package and a new package so you can identify the Rebel edition:

http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=packaginglp8.jpg


This pic shows you can't really tail stand a candle with the new one because the LED does not stick out of the barrel like the old ones:

http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nocandlemodeth2.jpg

From left to right the next 2 pictures are 3D MagLED, 2D Rebel, 3D Mag Terralux. I am about 75 feet from the wall. One picture was with the flash, one without.

http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wallnoflashtx3.jpg

http://img23.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wallwithflashnd2.jpg


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## GPB (Feb 11, 2009)

deleted unsucessful attempt at embedding a picture in a post


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## geepondy (Feb 11, 2009)

Thanks Greg. I'll go back tomorrow and look.


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## GPB (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm not sure where in Mass you are, but the Lowes and Home Depot in Danvers have them.


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## f22shift (Feb 12, 2009)

GPB said:


> Here's an old package and a new package so you can identify the Rebel edition:
> 
> http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=packaginglp8.jpg
> 
> ...


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## rmteo (Feb 12, 2009)

Stress_Test said:


> WARNING! Reliability problems!!
> 
> I bought one of these at Lowes just today, and it's been my first bad flashlight experience since I started my modest collection.
> 
> ...



I got 4 of these from the local HD. On one of them, I had similar issues - intermittent operation. Took it back and exchanged for another. Loaded the same RayOVac alkalines in it - same problem. Figured 2 in a row can't be right. After fiddling around for a bit, I looked at the batteries and noticed the +ve terminal was flattened compared to a new one. Looking into the barrel, I noticed that the positive battery contact on the switch looked no larger (maybe even a tad smaller) than the battery. Took a pair of pliers and squeezed the positive terminal of the top/upper battery and the problem went away immediately. If you still have your 2D, you may wat to try this fix.


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## depusm12 (Feb 12, 2009)

ZMZ67 said:


> When I e-mailed Mag last year about availability of colors the return message stated that they would have a C-cell LED light that would "knock my socks off".Knowing Mags reputation I didn't get too excited but now I wonder if we will see a 2C with this upgrade.Nice to see the Rebel is probably a 90 but I still would like to see a warmer tint for outdoor use.If they do release a 2C I would like to get one.I may even get one of the 2D models if I find it at a good price.




*I got a email back from MAG customer service yesterday and the gentleman told me that they were coming out with a 2C sized led rechargeable later this summer. *


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## Monocrom (Feb 12, 2009)

likeguymontag said:


> At Lowes all the flashlights are by the registers in my experience.


 
Mine is the exact opposite. 

The ones by the register are not the full line-up of lights at Lowes. They don't dedicate an entire aisle to flashlights. Just one section of an aisle. That often means hunting around for that particular section.


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## Toohotruk (Feb 12, 2009)

That's cool...wonder if it will use Li-Ion?


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## Search (Feb 12, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> Mine is the exact opposite.
> 
> The ones by the register are not the full line-up of lights at Lowes. They don't dedicate an entire aisle to flashlights. Just one section of an aisle. That often means hunting around for that particular section.



Around here they have a 3-side stand by one of the registers in the front.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 12, 2009)

depusm12 said:


> *I got a email back from MAG customer service yesterday and the gentleman told me that they were coming out with a 2C sized led rechargeable later this summer. *


 
Might this be the new Magcharger?


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 12, 2009)

I would tend to concur with the brightness of the Rebel compared to a Magled.

In my examples the Rebel looks cooler than the magleds however.


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## was.lost.but.now.found (Feb 12, 2009)

Illum_the_nation said:


> Home Depot restocked the luxeon magLEDs
> our Target seems to have eradicated their shelf for flashlights, I can't find it anywhere. Another customer saw me looking around and thought I had lost my wallet


 
The Target stores in STL seem to move the flashlights around a lot. By and large they usually stay either on the back wall of the store just outside the electronics dept. (at the end of the aisle containing rechargeables), or one aisle away from light automotive. I don't go there much.


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## rmteo (Feb 12, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



rockz4532 said:


> i wonder if the regulation is different.


Tested the 2D Rebel on a bench PSU. At 3.2V, it drew 0.9A after about 1 minute. Lowering the voltage down to 2.0V showed no visible dimming (although current draw goes up to about 1.5A to maintain brightness). Below that it starts dimming and at 1.5V, brightness is reduced to about 50% (purely subjective - not measured). Light output was available down to 0.4V when it abruptly cut off.


----------



## PCC (Feb 12, 2009)

f22shift said:


>


Again, this leaves me wondering how this compares to an older MagLED that has been upgraded with an SSC P4 LED?


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## geepondy (Feb 12, 2009)

I just picked one up at the Danvers Lowes but you gotta be careful. The ones in pewter have the new LED but the ones in black still have the old! Darn near missed it.



GPB said:


> I'm not sure where in Mass you are, but the Lowes and Home Depot in Danvers have them.


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## depusm12 (Feb 12, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> Might this be the new Magcharger?




The gentleman would say any more than what I posted. Maybe it is I'm not sure. But I'll keep in touch with him and see what I can learn until the light comes out.


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## jabe1 (Feb 12, 2009)

PCC said:


> Again, this leaves me wondering how this compares to an older MagLED that has been upgraded with an SSC P4 LED?



I am finding that the actual lumen output is about the same, the SSC P4 has way more spill vs the Rebel, which tends towards throw.


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## SuperTorch (Feb 12, 2009)

How does it compare against the Husky 4 watt 2D from Home Depot?, and Academy Sports in OKC at NW Expressway and 63rd has the new 2D MAG Rebel $24.95.


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## rmteo (Feb 12, 2009)

arioch said:


> .....The Mag Rebel hotspot is comparable in brightness, shape, size, and throw to my Husky 2D Cree. However, the spill from the Husky is brighter than the spill from the Mag Rebel.
> 
> Although I was impressed at the hotspot in both brightness and throw, which is superior to (Taskforce 2C Cree), equal to (Husky 2D Cree), or almost on par with (Dorcy Cree Rechargeable) other moderately priced B&M "throwers", a drawback I see is that the spill beam of the Mag Rebel is very diffuse compared to its hotspot, even more so than for the 3 aforementioned "throwers".
> 
> For lightsaber lovers who enjoy shining their lights into the night sky, though (I am one of those ), this is a very nice light for the price.


See post #210. My experience with the Husky and MAG rebel confirms this.


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## PCC (Feb 12, 2009)

jabe1 said:


> I am finding that the actual lumen output is about the same, the SSC P4 has way more spill vs the Rebel, which tends towards throw.


Thanks! That's exactly what I needed to hear (read).


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 12, 2009)

I find the spill of the Rebel to be pretty good but like most Maglites it is basically all throw.


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## Stress_Test (Feb 12, 2009)

rmteo said:


> I got 4 of these from the local HD. On one of them, I had similar issues - intermittent operation. Took it back and exchanged for another. Loaded the same RayOVac alkalines in it - same problem. Figured 2 in a row can't be right. After fiddling around for a bit, I looked at the batteries and noticed the +ve terminal was flattened compared to a new one. Looking into the barrel, I noticed that the positive battery contact on the switch looked no larger (maybe even a tad smaller) than the battery. Took a pair of pliers and squeezed the positive terminal of the top/upper battery and the problem went away immediately. If you still have your 2D, you may wat to try this fix.



Well, I compared the Rayovac cells to some old Duracells. I couldn't see any differences in the overall length or in the shape of the + terminal. 

I'm going back to Lowes this Saturday. If they've got the lights back in stock I might get an exchange, otherwise I'll just get the money back (the light I got was the last one left).

I think I may pull the trigger on a TK11 R2 instead :devil:


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## metlarules (Feb 13, 2009)

Can someone do a runtime test to 50% or at least till the batteries read 2.0v in series?


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## rmteo (Feb 13, 2009)

LG&M said:


> 75 posts about a light nobody wants. I love this place.


I bought 4 of them. :twothumbs


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## likeguymontag (Feb 13, 2009)

*Re: MagLite upgraded to a Rebel!!*



rmteo said:


> Tested the 2D Rebel on a bench PSU. At 3.2V, it drew 0.9A after about 1 minute. Lowering the voltage down to 2.0V showed no visible dimming (although current draw goes up to about 1.5A to maintain brightness). Below that it starts dimming and at 1.5V, brightness is reduced to about 50% (purely subjective - not measured). Light output was available down to 0.4V when it abruptly cut off.



Would you be willing to test over a wider range and plot your results? I'd like to know how linear the output is relative to voltage. My ideal flashlight would have a sigmoidal output curve; it would be bright for a while, then dim quickly, and have a "candle mode" after that.


----------



## rmteo (Feb 13, 2009)

Over a wider range of time or voltage? I do not have the time at the moment to run a test for several hours.

As for voltage, I have tested it over a range of 2.0V-4.0V. It is pretty linear (well regulated) throughout this voltage range in that the driver appears to maintain a constant 3.0W (at the tail cap) by adjusting the current accordingly. At 4.0V it draws 0.75A, and at 2.0V it is 1.5A - as stated in previous post. Below 2V, it drops out of regulation and starts to dim all the way down to the 0.4V total cutoff.

Right now, I am using it with a 3S2P battery adapter which gives 4.2-3.8V, see post #19 here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/221724
Current draw is 0.7-0.8A which should give run times of 7+ hours with 2700mAH AA's before starting to dim. Main advantage of going with AA's is that the weight of light reduced by about 5oz. and the balance feels much better without the tail heaviness of using 2x D cells.


----------



## likeguymontag (Feb 13, 2009)

rmteo said:


> As for voltage, I have tested it over a range of 2.0V-4.0V. It is pretty linear (well regulated) throughout this voltage range in that the driver appears to maintain a constant 3.0W (at the tail cap) by adjusting the current accordingly. At 4.0V it draws 0.75A, and at 2.0V it is 1.5A - as stated in previous post. Below 2V, it drops out of regulation and starts to dim all the way down to the 0.4V total cutoff.



Brilliant, thank you so much. That's exactly what I was hoping to learn. I guess they revised the driver since the Lux models, because I don't think the Luxeon drivers had nearly as linear a behavior. I wonder whether this driver is also more efficient than the previous. I think the previous one was 75-82% efficient.


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## PCC (Feb 13, 2009)

Target at Tanforan has a few of the 2D Rebel MagLEDs. I believe that they are all the grey versions. The price on the hook is for the incan version so it is mis-marked $16.XX. I did the price check and it came back $33.XX.

None of the Mini-MagLEDs were the newer ones.

No, I did not buy anything while I was there.


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## rmteo (Feb 13, 2009)

JamisonM said:


> Hi guys, here a few pictures I took of a 2D I just got from walmart. Not really an improvement in my opinion. Hope these help. I have these hosted on geocities so we'll have to see how long they stay up. Please download them and spread them if you want.


How do you go about removing the switch/LED assembly without marring the light? Thanks.


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## JamisonM (Feb 13, 2009)

rmteo said:


> How do you go about removing the switch/LED assembly without marring the light? Thanks.


Take out the batteries. With the batteries removed, push the button that turns on the light until you hear a click. You'll need a 5/64 allan wrench now. With maglites button in the on posistion, pench the black ruber cover and tear it off. Don't worry, it's removable. When the cover is gone, take your allan wrench and put into the hole in the center of the switch and puch it all the way back until it can't go anymore. Turn your allan wrench counter clockwise. Don't worry, it will turn, though it may be hard at first. Turn it as much as possible. You soon will notice that the small screw will not get any looser. Take your allan wrench out. Some swiches will fall out and some will require bit of elbow grease. If yours doesn't fall out, find something straight that will fit in the battery tube. Just push the whole switch out.


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## qip (Feb 13, 2009)

Bought one tonight as my relative needed a light so i picked it out for them "Lowes"...2D size ....got to play with it for a while, its *very nice* for a general use light BUT if the led goes  theres no backup and you cant put a pr-module in there, i compared it to my other 2D with magled modded w/seoul ...i got from Stereodude and is seen in his kitchen bounce test thread...the 2d rebel and 2d magled /seoul seem to be same on output via ceiling bounce , the spill area on rebel is smaller than seoul but rebel edges it a bit on tighter beam , i didnt get a chance to go outside with it just indoors....if mag would just put seoul in their drop-ins i think that would be better as it can take pr-drop ins incase led goes out and output is same for both in my case


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## likeguymontag (Feb 13, 2009)

qip said:


> BUT if the led goes  theres no backup and you cant put a pr-module in there



Same as almost every other LED light in the world. I hardly consider that a liability. In fact, it's an advantage. You can't heatsink a PR-bulb.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 13, 2009)

My 2D Rebel had been out in my truck.

But tonight I brought it in.

It even smokes the Terralux 2-3 cell I have in another Mag. Which itself bettered Lux magleds!


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## JamisonM (Feb 13, 2009)

likeguymontag said:


> You can't heatsink a PR-bulb.


You're right, but you don't have to run it so hard that it requires it too. Maglites have always had the ability to change bulbs. I guess you might say it's tradition. If this lights dies on you and while I doubt it will, that's it, you have $30 of nothing in your hand and the only thing left to do is throw it out or mod it. I can only guess what most people who buy these are going to do with a dead light that they have no idea how to repair. I have to agree with qip on this, why didn't they just use seoul p4s years back? Still, from what we know, these could be rebel 90s. Now that hey're using newer LEDs, why didn't they just replace the luxeon IIIs on their LED bulbs. Heck, I don't know why they didn't try and just run their LED lights at a set current that wouldn't result in the LED burning up unless power was lowered.


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## rmteo (Feb 13, 2009)

I would think that MAG's lifetime warranty should cover this  situation.


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## qip (Feb 13, 2009)

that may be but thats not gonna help me in a blackout or in the middle of the woods when i need light right away and not have to go through the process of shipping and waiting


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## rmteo (Feb 14, 2009)

qip said:


> that may be but thats not gonna help me in a blackout or in the middle of the woods when i need light right away and not have to go through the process of shipping and waiting





likeguymontag said:


> Same as almost every other LED light in the world.....


What he said.


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## qip (Feb 14, 2009)

*thats an edge mag had* , they had a back up pr bulb in the cap , NOW they are like almost every led light out there , vulnerable with no back up...with a seoul on their current drop in they dont lose that option , they are not gaining any brightness over seoul so why not just swap emitters in their lux3 and have that back up in the tailcap


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## asdalton (Feb 14, 2009)

My view, which I think is shared by a lot of others on CPF, is that if you need a backup for failure then you ought to have a whole backup flashlight. After all, the bulb/LED isn't the only thing that could stop working.


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## qip (Feb 14, 2009)

of course , but we are cpf nuts , who else goes around with multiple flashlights withing reach...im talking about the common folk, the rebel mag i just bought for my relative is the ONLY light they currently have for the moment as the others are old and dead now so they needed the step into the modern world....before i came here to cpf all i had was my 3Dmag and some cheapo 99cent plastic lights...i thought the mag was the best light you can get,boy have i learned....back during the eastern US blackout of 03 my pre cpf,the 3d mag was my main if my mag bulb had died and i didnt have a spare bulb to put back in the mag i would have had to relied on those cheap 5 lumen plastic lights i had ...which is why i think its important to have a back up in the mag for those UNENLIGHTENED who will suffer if they have no back up & going back to rely on the cheapo lights or none if they are outside away from the home and the mag was all they had cuz they thought it was indestructable


these lights nowa days arent cheap, normal person goes into store to buy a mag which is $30 , most likely hes buying 1 not 3 4 or 5 as that gets expensive real quick...the back up he will buy is the cheap 5mm led keychain dealy at the register


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## outersquare (Feb 14, 2009)

i doubt the LED itself is the most likely point of failure, it'll be the batteries that die first for any reason, and then maybe the switch.

besides, even if you could change it, if it were a life threatening situation, i doubt one would be able to see at all to change it, or have the time.


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## Toohotruk (Feb 14, 2009)

Most people don't even realize there's a spare bulb in the tailcap...and they usually let their lights sit in a drawer until they _really _need them, then they find out the batteries are dead and have leaked and ruined the light.

That being said, I think LEDs in general are pretty damned reliable...I've seen several of the old Lux Mags go through a lot of use and abuse at work and I haven't seen one fail yet. I'm not saying they don't fail, I just haven't seen one fail. In fact, seems like the only LED lights I have seen fail, have been the cheap DX/KD ones. 

Hopefully, these new Rebel Mags are even more reliable than the Lux ones...at least they have a better way of dealing with heat, that should help improve dependability.


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## clipse (Feb 14, 2009)

Wow, how did this thread turn from a darn good discussions about the new MagLED to traditional Mags vs MagLED's. This has been a great thread (minus the bickering/arguing over the merrits of the new design) and even caused me to go out and get a new 2D Mag. If you don't like the design then don't buy it. Its that simple. Now can we get back to the topic at hand....... So, is it -090 or 060-? 

BTW: My is probably one of the best throwers I currently have (in LED). I haven't been this excited about a MagLite since I bought my first 4D cell (first "real" light).


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## LukeA (Feb 14, 2009)

"Has anyone had an LED fail in the field?"


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## qip (Feb 14, 2009)

well im just saying rebel leds had a recall and were faulty before ..sure they may be fixed now but thats no guarantee , what if some slipped through the cracks and ended up in a mag , so it would just be wise to have a back up just incase 


now back on topic lovecpf my logic is undeniable


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## rala (Feb 14, 2009)

My wife just got me a black minimag with the new rebel. The updated model also comes with 4-modes, high, medium/low, strobe, and s.o.s. You change modes by turning it off, by twisting the head, then back on quickly. If not done quick enough, it starts back at high mode, has no memory. I actually like this version better than the Lux. It's brighter and whiter. I don't remember if the reflector was deeper like the new 2D, as I don't have it with me at work right now. Haven't done any real tests yet, so I don't kno runtimes or of any drops in brightness as the cells deplete or over prolonged use.


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## asdalton (Feb 14, 2009)

rala -

The thread for the new Mini-Mag LED is here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/221793


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## Stress_Test (Feb 15, 2009)

Seriously, for the people who've bought the 2D Rebel Mag, smack it around some to make sure it doesn't cut off on you. You can just use your hand or drop it onto the carpet. You don't want to be using it for something important and find out for the first time that it craps out on you when it gets whacked. 

I ended up returning mine. I don't know if I got the one bad one out of 1000, but I didn't want to get another one and then have to go BACK to the store AGAIN if it showed the same problem.


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## Lit Up (Feb 15, 2009)

qip said:


> these lights nowa days arent cheap, normal person goes into store to buy a mag which is $30 , most likely hes buying 1 not 3 4 or 5 as that gets expensive real quick...the back up he will buy is the cheap 5mm led keychain dealy at the register



I understand your point and have touted that advantage in the past but what's done is done. The best solution, and one that would even keep you using the same type of battery, is to get one or more of those 3LED-2D Eveready lights. I've strewn those across concrete floors and still have them work. I've got a Mag Rebel and the Eveready is still coming out first in a power outage at home.

http://www.flashlightmuseum.com/Eve...ey-Trim-Lanyard-and-100-Hour-Run-Time-2D-2007


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## SuperTorch (Feb 15, 2009)

1 LED is far more reliable than 2 incandescent, if the LED is not a factory bad unit then it is an upgrade in reliability for the MAG, the discussion over "omg no 2nd bulb" has zero merit, a single LED is far more reliable than 2 of the now old school MAGS. Not a sales job to promote the new MAGS but just a fact of how reliable led are as in 50,000+ hours to 50% brightness, while incandescent are under 100 hours to 50 brightness and some even far less, I don't know the exact figures so anyone chime in but one LED is FAR more reliable. I have the Husky 4W 2D so I can't justify geting one but I sure want one.


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## defloyd77 (Feb 15, 2009)

Not to mention that about a million other LED lights out there can't swap to a backup.....


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## etc (Feb 15, 2009)

Is there a pic of beamshots for both old and new?

I don't image it exceeds Malkoff module lumen wise?


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## Robocop (Feb 15, 2009)

I have skimmed over this thread and have to say I am a little suprised at some comments in general. It seems as if Mag can not win at all as many have hoped for upgrades and more heatsinking and when they finally do make a few changes for the better people still complain....or so it seems to me.

I did purchase one Rebel as I have two of the previous 3 watt versions and hoped for an improved version so I tried the 2-D. I will say I was very impressed with the incredible throw as well as tint and output. What I actually liked the most was candle mode with the head taken off. The emitter sits lower in this version and without the reflector it floods an entire room nicely. While the heatsinking looks improved it really seems to be impossible to do much with those plastic parts still in the way.

Now for the worst part of my experience with this new version.....I was able to use it for maybe 5 minutes comparing it to a few other lights before it stopped working. The light would shut off with almost any motion and I had to smack it with my palm to get it to work. It acted as if it had some type of short in the circuit or switch. I like the reflector and tint and improved (but still weak) heatsinking however I returned it as faulty. I did not purchase another as I no longer trust the d-cells as I have read so many here with problems.

I would like to try out the AA version however not available here as of yet.


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## qip (Feb 15, 2009)

Robocop said:


> I have skimmed over this thread and have to say I am a little suprised at some comments in general. It seems as if Mag can not win at all as many have hoped for upgrades and more heatsinking and when they finally do make a few changes for the better people still complain....or so it seems to me.
> 
> I did purchase one Rebel as I have two of the previous 3 watt versions and hoped for an improved version so I tried the 2-D. I will say I was very impressed with the incredible throw as well as tint and output. What I actually liked the most was candle mode with the head taken off. The emitter sits lower in this version and without the reflector it floods an entire room nicely. While the heatsinking looks improved it really seems to be impossible to do much with those plastic parts still in the way.
> 
> ...




yes ,yes & yes

1. the complaining  its just the nature of the beast , mag has to please us all :devil:

2.the output/tint/throw very good 

3. 2 broken modules in this thread alone , something needs a fixing at the factory


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## :)> (Feb 15, 2009)

After having mine for awhile, I have to say that it is a big improvement over the performance of the previous version of the MagLED. That being the case, I have grown exceedingly fond of my Malkoff Mag and I do like the idea of keeping a spare, lower output / long runtime bulb in the tail-cap to switch out if I need longer runtime.

I am not worried about the main LED failing, I am more interested in the flexibility that having 2 types of bulb provides me. In the back of my mind, I do enjoy additional peace-of-mind knowing that I have a spare. 

So, I am happy that I have a good amount of Mag's w/the older style bodies to accept superior drop-ins like the Malkoff's that I currently enjoy.


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## Stress_Test (Feb 15, 2009)

Robocop said:


> Now for the worst part of my experience with this new version.....I was able to use it for maybe 5 minutes comparing it to a few other lights before it stopped working. The light would shut off with almost any motion and I had to smack it with my palm to get it to work. It acted as if it had some type of short in the circuit or switch. I like the reflector and tint and improved (but still weak) heatsinking however I returned it as faulty. I did not purchase another as I no longer trust the d-cells as I have read so many here with problems.
> 
> I would like to try out the AA version however not available here as of yet.



Hmm, I figured I wouldn't be the only one that had this problem. There was also the guy who mentioned that there wasn't good contact at the + terminal at the switch. 

I'm afraid there may be an inherent design flaw with this redesign...

Robocop's experience was *exactly *like mine.


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## asdalton (Feb 15, 2009)

Guys, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".


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## rala (Feb 15, 2009)

asdalton said:


> rala -
> 
> The thread for the new Mini-Mag LED is here:
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/221793


 Thanks asdalton. :thumbsup:I didn't realize the AA had its own thread. I assumed we were talking about all rebel mags here.


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## rmteo (Feb 15, 2009)

I have 4 of the 2D Rebels. On one of them, I had intermittent issues with Ray-O-Vac alkalines - it works fine with Eveready though. This seems to be a problem with the very small diameter contact at the positive end of the light. This contact is very close to flush with surface of the plastic housing. Shaking the light vigorously does seem to move the battery enough to make/break contact. I agree that this may be a minor design issue - the contact should either be made larger in diameter and/or stand out more from the plastic housing.

I have moved from using D's to rechargeable AA's in a 3S/2P configuration to save weight (and I have a bunch AA rechargeables and no D's) using this battery holder, I have not had any issues with the problem light mentioned above, or the other 3 lights - the spring makes perfect contact with small positive contact. Pictures courtesy of bobli17, thank you.


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## jabe1 (Feb 15, 2009)

Where did you get that holder?


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## rmteo (Feb 15, 2009)

Wally World has these lights ($15 for twin pack, $8.00 single) that come with these 3S/2P holders.


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## GPB (Feb 15, 2009)

I love that holder, and the fact that I can get it at a B&M store. I am confused on the 3S/2P notation though....is it putting out 4.5 volts or 3.0 volts ? I would take 3S to mean 3 series which would be 4.5 volts, but we're talking about a 2d mag..so I wasn't sure...then I noticed that the Mag in your picture isn't a 2D rebel...so maybe it is a 4.5 volt carrier....like I said..I'm confused.


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## rmteo (Feb 15, 2009)

The MAG in the picture is not mine - mine are box stock 2D Rebels. With alkalines it gives 4.5V (3*1.5). I am using NiMH's so I get a theoritical 3.6V which works great in the 2D Rebels.

Using 2700mAH NiMH rechargeables in the holder, you get a 3.6V/5400mAH battery pack equivalent to big Li-Ion pack.

Another thing - 6x AA's weigh 6oz. - about the same as a single D cell, so your are saving about 5 oz. using this configuration. Makes the 2D feel much better balanced in the hand without the tail heaviness.


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## GPB (Feb 15, 2009)

cool...Thanks !!


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## qip (Feb 15, 2009)

can those holders separate ? run in a 1 or 2D mag


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## thermal guy (Feb 15, 2009)

Can we do the old 3c in a 2d mag trick?


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## metlarules (Feb 15, 2009)

Keep in mind that 2 d cells are 3v and that pack starts off at 4.5v. I don't know if Mag designed the driver to handle that much voltage for the long term. I know the old magled lights had a different driver for 2,3, and 4 cell configuration. Procede with caution.


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## rmteo (Feb 15, 2009)

thermal guy said:


> Can we do the old 3c in a 2d mag trick?


This is exactly what it does - gives you the equivalent of 3Cs in the space of 2Ds in terms of voltage and capacity.


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## rmteo (Feb 15, 2009)

qip said:


> can those holders separate ? run in a 1 or 2D mag


It may be possible to separate then but I have not tried it. Looks like it is made up of 2 identical mating sections that are held together with 2 small screws.


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## rmteo (Feb 15, 2009)

metlarules said:


> Keep in mind that 2 d cells are 3v and that pack starts off at 4.5v. I don't know if Mag designed the driver to handle that much voltage for the long term. I know the old magled lights had a different driver for 2,3, and 4 cell configuration. Procede with caution.


Valid concern. I have only used rechargeable NiMH's (2700mAH) which come hot off the charger at about 4.2-4.4V. Ran a test last night with one of the 2D Rebels. Gave up after 7 hours (which should have depleted the pack) and it was still going with hardly any dimming.


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## jabe1 (Feb 15, 2009)

Could this adapter be modded to a 2s3p maybe?


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 15, 2009)

I just took the switch assembly out of my 2D Rebel to pre-emp a problem with battery nipples.

I found that the LED is on a thing a lot like the holder in an AA Magled which is held via spring up in the fairly heavy metal slug. Decent if not great heat sink.

Thin strip rubbing on the slug for negative.

I used an exacto knife to trim around the positive contact.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 15, 2009)

Hmm. The positive contact in my 2D, while not huge, is clearly larger in diameter than any D cell nipple. In mine, I can't see how contact wouldn't be made.


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## rmteo (Feb 16, 2009)

Is your 2D one of the new models with the Rebel LED? On all 4 of my Rebel 2Ds, the positive contact is about the same diameter (maybe even a tad smaller) as the nipple of the Ray-O-Vac alkalines.

I have been able to simulate (and fix) the issue with intermittent contact several times with the abovementioned batteries.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 16, 2009)

Yes, it's a Rebel model, and the contact is a wee bit larger than the nipple diameter, perfectly centered. I would never doubt that contact would be made. On mine, anyway.


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## rmteo (Feb 16, 2009)

The contacts on mine are also all perfectly centered. The only issue I have had were with the Ray-O-Vacs. With Eveready Heavy Duty, there were no issues at all. However, since I moved to using rechargeable AA's with a battery holder (see post #358), there have not been any problems. The small spring at the top (positive) end of the holder makes perfect contact.


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## GPB (Feb 16, 2009)

Rmteo: Is the light considerably brighter with your higher voltage set up ?


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## rmteo (Feb 16, 2009)

No, it is not. The regulator compensates by lowering the current. Tested it with a Bench PSU. Brightness is virtually constant from about 2.0V all the way up to 4.5V.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 16, 2009)

Got get some of those Wally World lights for the holders!


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## pipspeak (Feb 16, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> I find the spill of the Rebel to be pretty good but like most Maglites it is basically all throw.


 
I assume the new rebel version can still be focused (or defocused)? In which case you can also have all flood, surely?! 

I was planning to get a drop-in for my current 2D magLED for a bit more oomph but now I figure it'll just be cheaper just to buy a new Mag. Forget re-engineering... price is probably how Mag will potentially kill the drop-in market. 

However, now I hear about a new MagCharger potentially coming down the line :huh: Am I just supposed to get them all?! :devil:


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## Sam44 (Feb 16, 2009)

Just wondering. I'd love to see a brightness/runtime graph comparing the rebel vs. luxeon 2D Mag. Is anyone still doing those? Also, are they planning on a 3D upgrade?


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 17, 2009)

Because like all Mags it is geared towards throw, no matter what other LED light I shined approx 25' at a frigde the Rebel spot was WAY brighter.

Romisen RC-G2 and RC-F4 are toys in throw compared to the Rebel.

Even an R2 Solarforce in a SMO reflector doesn't have as tight/bright a spot!


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## Phaserburn (Feb 17, 2009)

Sam44 said:


> Just wondering. I'd love to see a brightness/runtime graph comparing the rebel vs. luxeon 2D Mag. Is anyone still doing those? Also, are they planning on a 3D upgrade?


 
+1 on wanting to see runtime graphs! I'm also hoping MrGman or someone drops these new Mags into the integrating sphere for true lumen readings, too.


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## Brad (Feb 20, 2009)

I just got the mag 2D/Rebel last week. Thank you all for your reviews. I tested mine with two Eneloops the other night and got a little over 3 hours of light. Not bad for such small batteries compared to the D's. This set of eneloops was only charged once so maybe I'll get more runtime later once the batteries are broken in. I'll find out when it warms up. I mostly use the mag lights outside. The beam is a different tint from my other mag/led upgraded lights. I like it so far.

Some of you are lucky to have the Eneloops in local stores. I'm about 40 miles south of chicago. I havn't seen them anywhere near me. Had to order them from the Internet. I was lucky enough to find some white top Duracell's at the local Target store though.


Brad


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## likeguymontag (Feb 20, 2009)

I did some testing of the new driver. This model is approximately 80% efficient when driven at 3v. I tried driving it all the way to 6.0V and 6.5V, and it drove the LED at the same power level, but efficiency fell to ~65%.

Anyway, at 3.0V, this driver module is maybe 4-5% more efficient than the previous luxeon version. Dunno about lower voltages, like NiMH or alkalines under load, 'cause my "bench supply" only outputs a handful of fixed voltages.

Edit: it occurs to me that my test equipment _may _not have enough precision and accuracy to make these claims. I can say that the new module is roughly as efficient as the old one, and _maybe_ a bit more efficient.


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## tebore (Feb 20, 2009)

likeguymontag said:


> I did some testing of the new driver. This model is approximately 80% efficient when driven at 3v. I tried driving it all the way to 6.0V and 6.5V, and it drove the LED at the same power level, but efficiency fell to ~65%.
> 
> Anyway, at 3.0V, this driver module is maybe 4-5% more efficient than the previous luxeon version. Dunno about lower voltages, like NiMH or alkalines under load, 'cause my "bench supply" only outputs a handful of fixed voltages.
> 
> Edit: it occurs to me that my test equipment _may _not have enough precision and accuracy to make these claims. I can say that the new module is roughly as efficient as the old one, and _maybe_ a bit more efficient.



So it's like some kind of linear regulator?


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## likeguymontag (Feb 20, 2009)

tebore said:


> So it's like some kind of linear regulator?



No, it's a boost regulator for sure. I'm not clear on what it does when Vi > Vf. I can hear the inductor making a faint, high-pitched squeal when Vi > Vf, for whatever that's worth.


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## tebore (Feb 21, 2009)

likeguymontag said:


> No, it's a boost regulator for sure. I'm not clear on what it does when Vi > Vf. I can hear the inductor making a faint, high-pitched squeal when Vi > Vf, for whatever that's worth.



I'm confused as it doesn't sound it it's direct drive at 6v and the magic smoke didn't get out.


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## likeguymontag (Feb 21, 2009)

tebore said:


> I'm confused as it doesn't sound it it's direct drive at 6v and the magic smoke didn't get out.



Well, I lack the electronics expertise to know for sure, but I would bet that it's a buck/boost driver, just like the previous version in the luxeon MagLeds. If that's not the case, then I suppose it's possible that it's boost when Vi < Vf and linear when Vi > Vf. Seriously though, it's probably just a "low-efficiency non-synchronous buck/boost" like the previous version was.


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## tebore (Feb 21, 2009)

likeguymontag said:


> Well, I lack the electronics expertise to know for sure, but I would bet that it's a buck/boost driver, just like the previous version in the luxeon MagLeds. If that's not the case, then I suppose it's possible that it's boost when Vi < Vf and linear when Vi > Vf. Seriously though, it's probably just a "low-efficiency non-synchronous buck/boost" like the previous version was.



I thought the previous versions were boost or buck depending on the module 2 cell would be boost and 3 cell and up would be buck. 

I just thought it'd be interesting for mag to make a buck/boost module seems like it might be a boost and then linear regulator like you said instead of a real buck and boost.


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## rmteo (Feb 21, 2009)

I decided to make 2 mods to my 2D Rebels. Firstly, instead of 2 D cells, they now run on 6 AA's in a 3S2P configuration using the adapters shown in post #358 - saves about 4oz. from the weight compared with using D cells. Secondly, I modified the end caps and fitted them with a charge plug so that the batteries can be recharged without having to remove them from the light. Also, here is a beam shot from 15 feet (focused tightly for the best spot - spill extends just beyond the edge of the picture).


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## Big_Ed (Feb 21, 2009)

Nice mod!


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## g36pilot (Feb 22, 2009)

defloyd77 said:


> I'd like to add some personal observations;
> 
> 3. Gummy dome Seoul + Mag + Joe Average = one f'd up dome. I've seem far to many bulbs break when a headless Mag takes a fall when tailstanding. Not to mention they seem to be a magnet for dust and junk.


 
I've done this myself when my candle mode Mag 3C /Malikoff LED rolled off the console after a demo/flash-a-holic conversion. Compromised the dome resulting in LED replacement. Used an OTC Seoul P4 which worked almost as well.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 22, 2009)

It looks very similar to mine in the beam.

The spot is ever so slightly off center, that being that the light directly around the hotspot tends to be thinner on one side.

It is a HOT spot!


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## rmteo (Feb 22, 2009)

Try this. Take off the head. Rotate the the LED module about 45 degrees. Replace the head. Check if the spot is more centered. If not, rotate the module another 45 degrees (in the same direction) until centered. Worked for me in 2 of my 2D's that had off-center spots.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 22, 2009)

Tried that but I have it set up so that when the head bottoms it is in focus and I hate donking with it any more!


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## kz1000s1 (Feb 24, 2009)

Sale at Sears!

On sears.com the 2D LED Maglite is on sale for $19.99. One store I went to had a mix of lux and rebel versions (DeLand, FL), another had all rebels in the usual pewter and in black (Daytona Beach, FL). I got a black one there which was the first rebel Mag I've seen that wasn't pewter.

You can buy on line for store pickup, but you won't know if you're getting a new one then. The stores will price match the website, so you have to tell them about the sale price. They didn't know about the Web sale and it rings up full price ($31) otherwise. I don't know how long the sale will last.
Also, if you're checking availability on sears.com, it isn't always accurate. It said the Daytona store was out of stock, but they had 4 on display, all rebels, so they might have just come in.

First impressions in my garage are very good. I'll have to test it out tonight.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 24, 2009)

Shining at my fridge only one light has bested my Rebel 2D for spot.

Snipe head on a Regalight EDC 1AA! And I don't even have any AA Li-Ions yet!


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## clg0159 (Feb 24, 2009)

Wow that is saying alot for a AA light! I bet that will see some serious pocket time huh:naughty:


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 24, 2009)

No. That is with the Snipe bezel. And I bet you don't know just how big that thing is!

Maybe in a coat pocket but it's already starting to feel like summer in Texas.


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## The Shadow (Feb 25, 2009)

This is getting crazy.

My original Maglite sure was bright, until I got the MagLED upgrade. Then it was really bright and the incan was soooo dim. Here we go again. I just got the new Rebel 2D and it makes my 2D LED look soooo dim. The new one is a lot brighter with a much nicer tint. Even brighter than my 3D MagLED.

For $20 at Sears this is one great value! I look forward to Mag's next upgrade so I can post that this Rebel 2D is soooo dim...


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## divine (Feb 28, 2009)

I picked one up, this thing is pretty interesting. It didn't look very bright, and then it dimmed... But I figured out that the batteries were pretty dead. I read 0.9 volts open circuit on them. I'll charge them up and see how well it does.

This is a nice thing all around. I'm interested to see the runtime and see more info about the different models.


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## Skidmark6 (Feb 28, 2009)

Forget the maglites and get a dropin from gene malkoff. It makes the maglite garbage look like a joke. Maglite would be smart to hire gene to design their lights. I was hesitant to drop $50 on a p4 malkoff led, but after installing it and shining it out the window, holy carp, its awesome.


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## copperfox (Feb 28, 2009)

I bought a new black 2D magled at Walmart last weekend. Even though the beam was very tight on max focus, the tint on mine was horrible purple :sick2:. I returned it.


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## IsaacHayes (Mar 1, 2009)

Interesting. One step in the right direction. Better LED, and custom reflector for it. The deeper reflector required the body be longer so that the range of screwing the head is not compromised. 

Has anyone used these as a mod host yet? Or transplanted the reflector? I wonder how it looks with a Cree in there, since it's deeper it might give a good beam. Maybe even use an MCE...


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## jabe1 (Mar 1, 2009)

I,m waiting until reflectors are available by themselves from a parts supplier... although I haven't e-mailed zbattery yet.


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## JamisonM (Mar 1, 2009)

IsaacHayes said:


> Interesting. One step in the right direction. Better LED, and custom reflector for it. The deeper reflector required the body be longer so that the range of screwing the head is not compromised.
> 
> Has anyone used these as a mod host yet? Or transplanted the reflector? I wonder how it looks with a Cree in there, since it's deeper it might give a good beam. Maybe even use an MCE...


I still say these new maglites aren’t as good as the older luxeon III ones, but that’s just me. 

The dimensions of these new 2D maglites are no different then that of a the 2D incan. or 2D luxeon III versions. To use the deeper reflector, they shortened the cam shaft on the switch assembly so the LED sits deeper in the battery tube. The hole on these new reflectors is also smaller. It's only 13mm wide compared to 15.5mm or a standard maglite reflector. I'm currently using it with my old copper heatsink Malkoff. It fits just right and looks pretty good if I don’t say so. The only way I got it to work though, was to use a cut down switch assembly I had for another mod.

I can't say that it throws any better, but I'd be lying if believed it doesn't. I can say that it makes my Malkoff more usable. The size of the side spill resembles that of my L2D-CE. Unlike with the standard reflector, there's more light in the side spill. With the new reflector, the hot spot is not just a simple small bright spot surrounded by an acre of side spill. I think it more balanced with this new reflector.

However, getting these new reflectors to work with anything is going to require some doing. You may or may not have to widen the bulb opening. As delicate as the reflective coating is on them, this can be a PITA. Another task to deal with is the shear depth of the reflector. I’m planning a P7 build soon and plan on using one of these reflectors. I’m using one of the heatsinks from 4sevens.com. I had to sand the top edge and get rid of the lip that prevents the heatsink from going all the way down into the battery tube. I borrowed Gene’s design of his old copper heatsink maglite drop-ins by drilling two holes so I could extract or reposition the heatsink for use with the deeper reflector. 



jabe1 said:


> I,m waiting until reflectors are available by themselves from a parts supplier... although I haven't e-mailed zbattery yet.


Me too. I emailed maglite about them several weeks ago, but haven’t heard anything back. I’ve looked for them all over the internet, but I can only find the old version. I’m guessing lowes will have them for half off like they did the past couple of years with the LED maglites.


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## walkabout (Mar 2, 2009)

Hi all, I've been away for a while.

Walked into Home Depot, Edmonton Canada, and I think I've found the new LED MiniMaglite.

Has somebody else seen this yet? I can't find another thread at first glance. Sorry if I'm duplicating something already posted.

Anyway, it's a 2AA job, different packaging from the original MiniMag LED. Actually it was the only one on the rack, the rest were the original LEDs, like somebody opened a box by accident.

Some of the stuff on the package:
(front)
- "NEW! Performance Enhanced LED
- NEW multi-mode electronic switch - 100% power, 25% power, Blink mode, S.O.S. mode
(back)
- model number SP2201HJ, part number 153-000-050
- The Mini Maglite(R) delivers performance oriented features in a sleek compact design. This advanced lighting instrument is driven by the next generation of MAG-LED(R) Technology. The benefits include: A powerful projecting LED beam that focuses simply by rotating the head. Balanced OpticsTM combining a highly refined reflector with a new performance enhanced LED, yielding high output intensity. Intelligent Energy Source Management - Refining a concept pioneered by Mag Instrument, the second-generation electronics let the user choose the power level. The Multi-function electronic switch offers two different power settings - a maximum-power setting that yields maximum brightness and a 25% power setting to conserve battery power for reading at night, or for a prolonged emergency. Extended battery life - compared to the prior-generation Mini Maglite (R) 2AA LED flashlight, this next-generation flashlight yields much improved battery longevity even in the maximum-power mode. And at the 25% power setting, a fresh set of batteries should literally last for days of continuous operation. (warranty blah-blah follows)

The text above is repeated in French, so it's the version for the Canadian market.

I haven't cracked it open yet. If it's the first one found, maybe it belongs in a museum or something.  Nah.

Again, apologies if this is old news.


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## Burgess (Mar 3, 2009)

Hello walkabout --


Thank you for that very comprehensive information.

:twothumbs :goodjob:


Tell me, do these new models still have a Serial Number ?


I know the original Mini-MagLEDS did.

Wonder what was the highest SN ever spotted ?


Is your (new) Serial Number quite low ?


Thank you for this info you provide us.

:thumbsup:



Myself, i can't wait for these in some *Pretty Colors* ! ! !

:kiss:

_


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## chmsam (Mar 3, 2009)

Some info to help identify the new versions in US stores at least (some of this has already been posted elsewhere).

The serial numbers for the D cell Rebel LED's start with "DL," the bottom right hand corner of the front of the packaging no longer has the image of the bulb being switched out, and the reflector is significantly deeper than the "old" LED version. No color body options so far -- only black or gray. For a gray one, the UPC is 38739 51010, the model number looks like it is ST2D096, and the part number appears to be 151-000-058GY.

The serial numbers for the mini mag Rebel LED's look like they start with "2T" (on a gray one anyway), the packaging is very different, and these also have a deeper reflector than the previous version. No color body options yet, and in stores I personally have only seen them in gray (but black ones are probably out there too). For a gray one, the UPC is 38739 53042, the model number is SP2209HJ, and the part number is 153-000-052.


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## walkabout (Mar 3, 2009)

Mine is black, serial number 20000917503.

It's physically identical in size and shape to the original MMLed. Looks like the tailcap is interchangeable. Not sure about the head. Will test at both ends later.

Nice colour tint, and it is noticeably brighter than the original.

Big news: it has a decent moonglow mode! I put in old alkalines at 1.05V no load, and it lights reliably. (Batts at 0.88V would not light, but that's asking a lot.) It's been running in moonglow for 40 minutes now. Guessing about 5 lumens, plenty to find your way in a dark basement or read a map. All other modes are disabled in moonglow (no flashy things).

This is shaping up to be a decent light.

(LATER: ran in moonglow for 4 hours. Batts went from 1.05 to 1.01 V n/ld and were still able to light up.)


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## mwaldron (Mar 3, 2009)

My local Walmart had the 2xAA Rebels for $21.88 tonight in both pewter and black. They did not have the 2D rebels.

I picked up one to see what all the hub-bub was about and I'm impressed. I'm not sure what I will do with it, I might actually exchange/return it for a D-model. I have a lot of "small" lights that are on similar footing with the 2xAA, but I could really use some more D-cell lights that run for days.

I see lots of people talking about 2D models, are there any 3D Rebels out yet? 3D is my favorite format for a large maglite...


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## nnmnu (Mar 3, 2009)

I too would like to know about the 3d models those are perfect for cars


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## rmteo (Mar 3, 2009)

AFAIK, only the the 2D's are available with Rebel LEDs at this time.

My local Walmart does not yet have the 2AA Rebels (only the old style 2AA and 3AA MagLeds) but all their 2D's are Rebels.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Mar 3, 2009)

Again for new readers...

On the front of the package the major change is no pic about bulb swapping (2D).

On the back model ST2D016 also 151-000-056 BK

Walmart sku is 0 38739 51008 8


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## JamisonM (Mar 3, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> Again for new readers...
> 
> On the front of the package the major change is no pic about bulb swapping (2D).
> 
> ...


I think we need to culminate this information as well as pictures into a single post. Change the title of this thread pointing to that post so it's easy to find too. Or we can always start a new thread with that as post 1.


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## walkabout (Mar 3, 2009)

I agree. I goofed by posting MiniMag stuff in this thread. Moderators, can you help us out?


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## tnforever (Mar 4, 2009)

I read through most of the thread, but not in minute detail, I see that the spot beam is more balanced than the old Lux3, but what about the flood beam? Is it still absolutely horrible like the old one? Or improved like the minimags?


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## mikekoz (Mar 4, 2009)

Skidmark6 said:


> Forget the maglites and get a dropin from gene malkoff. It makes the maglite garbage look like a joke. Maglite would be smart to hire gene to design their lights. I was hesitant to drop $50 on a p4 malkoff led, but after installing it and shining it out the window, holy carp, its awesome.


 

Yes, they could do this, but nobody except people on this forum would spend $80.00 or more on a Maglite. I may check out one of these at Sears this weekend if they are still on sale. I do not really need another Maglite, but $20.00 for a light that I can always depend on to work...can not beat it with a stick!!!:thumbsup: Come to think of it...how many of us actually buy these things because we NEED them!!!:naughty:


Mike


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## jabe1 (Mar 4, 2009)

Just got off the phone with Mag instruments, trying to obtain a new style reflector. They are using all of the parts in complete lights at this time, but parts will be available in the future (I couldn't talk them into it).They didn't even have a part # for the reflector!
I did find out that the new C sized lights will be 7 mode and available around June '09!


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## JamisonM (Mar 4, 2009)

jabe1 said:


> Just got off the phone with Mag instruments, trying to obtain a new style reflector. They are using all of the parts in complete lights at this time, but parts will be available in the future (I couldn't talk them into it).They didn't even have a part # for the reflector!
> I did find out that the new C sized lights will be 7 mode and available around June '09!


I figured as much. Looks like we'll have to buy a whole light to get a reflector. Well, there's always next black friday. Maybe they'll even have 3D rebels by then? That'll make a nice mod. Or, maybe they'll have parts available by then.


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## defloyd77 (Mar 4, 2009)

7 modes?!?!?!?!


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## Phaserburn (Mar 4, 2009)

defloyd77 said:


> 7 modes?!?!?!?!


 
That's what I was thinking!

:shrug:

High, Low, Flash, SOS... umm... deep fat fry? A frickin' laser?


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## jabe1 (Mar 4, 2009)

Yes, seven. I had the same reaction over the phone. All i can think of is 4 brightness, 2 strobe and SOS.


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## rockz4532 (Mar 4, 2009)

7 modes?!?! just make it user adjustable brightness... sheesh


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## defloyd77 (Mar 5, 2009)

Low, medium, high, strobe, s.o.s., off and club? I wonder if it's going to be a momentary press a few times to the mode and then click, that'd suck.


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## Lit Up (Mar 10, 2009)

Well, it was fun while it lasted...

Add another 2D malfunctioning to the list. Had mine about a month now and under 2 hours of usage. Tonight it started flickering then it would dim to the point to where the LED was barely illuminated. Leave it off for 10 minutes or so and brightness would come back (sometimes) If i rapped on it with my hand it would flicker from bright, to dim, to going completely out.

I don't think this is just a fluke from the several we've already seen just on here alone. I think Mag has a design issue in the switch that seriously needs addressed.


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## darknessemitter (Mar 10, 2009)

Lit Up said:


> Well, it was fun while it lasted...
> 
> Add another 2D malfunctioning to the list. Had mine about a month now and under 2 hours of usage. Tonight it started flickering then it would dim to the point to where the LED was barely illuminated. Leave it off for 10 minutes or so and brightness would come back (sometimes) If i rapped on it with my hand it would flicker from bright, to dim, to going completely out.
> 
> I don't think this is just a fluke from the several we've already seen just on here alone. I think Mag has a design issue in the switch that seriously needs addressed.


 
Has anyone figured out what part of the light is malfunctioning?


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## JamisonM (Mar 10, 2009)

darknessemitter said:


> Has anyone figured out what part of the light is malfunctioning?


Earlier in the the thread, there were some posts saying that it could be caused by how the bottom of the switch assembly was changed. In older lights, the bottom of the switch is concave with a small spring at the center in the lowest point. In these newer lights, they've done away with that and the bottom of the switch assembly is flat with a small hole for the positive nipple to fit in. Just inside this small hole is a flat piece of metal with a spring behind it.


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## GPB (Mar 10, 2009)

I had a bit of flickering in mine ( after I accidentally dropped it off my roof ). I took a bit of aluminum foil and made a little "nipple" on top of the battery to make better contact with the switch and its been running fine ever since.


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## nnmnu (Mar 17, 2009)

has anyone contacted mag about this? I think its crap that they cant manufacture a light that doesn't need to be modified with foil to work.


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## jabe1 (Mar 18, 2009)

Has anyone tried putting an aspheric lens on one of these yet? Hmmmm...


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Mar 18, 2009)

I will try if I can find a Magcharger lens gasket around here!

OK two o rings rather than a MC gasket.

It has a perfectly square die w/16 waffle holes. About 12" at about 25'.

I'll try it outside after dark.

And before you start yelling "PICS" my camera (OLD Sony FD90) has pretty much pooped out. We are supposed to get a new digital for around the house and I get to choose it.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Mar 18, 2009)

Okay. Did not use the Rebel, rather a Q5 in another Mag.

I had seen the effect before, but it's as close to a laser beam as a flashlight can get!

NOTHING else I have puts as much light on a spot as this does.

Practical? Not much. But AWESOME!


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## Modern_Major_General (Mar 22, 2009)

Does anyone know if mag intends to upgrade the 3D and 4D versions as well?


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## Burgess (Mar 22, 2009)

I understand they do.


Sometime this Summer.



Supposed to have *several* new items.




_


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## Marduke (Mar 22, 2009)

Modern_Major_General said:


> Does anyone know if mag intends to upgrade the 3D and 4D versions as well?



I'm pretty sure I've seen 3D versions.


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## Phaserburn (Mar 23, 2009)

These suckers make great candle mode impromptu lanterns.


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## hahnn002 (Apr 3, 2009)

jabe1 said:


> Has anyone tried putting an aspheric lens on one of these yet? Hmmmm...



I'll try it on my 2D Rebel when the lens arrives in a couple days.


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## LukeA (Apr 4, 2009)

hahnn002 said:


> I'll try it on my 2D Rebel when the lens arrives in a couple days.



Aspheric with a Rebel is okay. To do it with the MagLED you'll need to lower the pedestal, otherwise the head will be perched loosely on the end of the threads.


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## psul71 (Apr 11, 2009)

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but I found a combo pack of the 3D Rebel Maglite and multi-mode 2AA Maglite at Costco today for $29.99. The 2 lights (both black), a sheath for the MiniMag, 2x AA Duracell batteries, and 3 D cell Duracell batteries were included. Seemed like too good of a deal to pass on, So I picked one up. Just got home a bit ago and haven't had much of a chance to test the lights yet. So far I am really impressed with the 3D model.

Be careful when looking through the display, I noticed that about half of the combos were the older Luxeon Maglites.


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2009)

psul71 said:


> Not sure if this has been posted yet, but I found a combo pack of the 3D Rebel Maglite and multi-mode 2AA Maglite at Costco today for $29.99. The 2 lights (both black), a sheath for the MiniMag, 2x AA Duracell batteries, and 3 D cell Duracell batteries were included. Seemed like too good of a deal to pass on, So I picked one up. Just got home a bit ago and haven't had much of a chance to test the lights yet. So far I am really impressed with the 3D model.
> 
> Be careful when looking through the display, I noticed that about half of the combos were the older Luxeon Maglites.



cross posting... 

in the best way :thumbsup:

It will take mag like another year to bring this to australia... :thumbsdown:


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## Big_Ed (Apr 12, 2009)

psul71 said:


> Not sure if this has been posted yet, but I found a combo pack of the 3D Rebel Maglite and multi-mode 2AA Maglite at Costco today for $29.99. The 2 lights (both black), a sheath for the MiniMag, 2x AA Duracell batteries, and 3 D cell Duracell batteries were included. Seemed like too good of a deal to pass on, So I picked one up. Just got home a bit ago and haven't had much of a chance to test the lights yet. So far I am really impressed with the 3D model.
> 
> Be careful when looking through the display, I noticed that about half of the combos were the older Luxeon Maglites.



That's a great deal!


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## PhantomPhoton (Apr 26, 2009)

Looking at the local Target today, I saw we finally have the new, upgraded rebel multimode [email protected] in stock. At least in the Tanasbourne Target in Beaverton. So I'd assume if you haven't found them yet Northwest Targets should get them soon.
Was tempting to buy but I have a bit of willpower left in me.


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## eyeeatingfish (Apr 26, 2009)

So does anyone know how these new rebel LED maglights compare to the teralux 6EX or the 6EXB?


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## rmteo (Apr 26, 2009)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/222556
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/224102


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## GPB (Apr 26, 2009)

In this thread, post #299 has beam shots of the old MagLED, New Mag Rebel LED and a 3D Mag w/ a Terralux. (The Rebel Mag is brighter than the other 2)


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Apr 27, 2009)

Just FYI Magled 2AA Rebels were seen at $17.99 at Academy Sports and Outdoors on 290 @ W34th.

I have no desire for one but that's a better price than Wallyworld, Home Depot or Lowes.


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## Sgt. LED (Apr 28, 2009)

Anyone seen a Camo Rebel D cell yet?


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## metlarules (Apr 28, 2009)

I want a 4d multi-mode rebel with no strobe or sos!
Make it happen Mag.


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## PhantomPhoton (Apr 28, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> Anyone seen a Camo Rebel D cell yet?



Not yet in my neck of the woods, Just black an silver here.


I'm awaiting the vaporware C [email protected] LEDs which may or may not be out this decade. And I sure hope they make them in green.


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## SuperTorch (Apr 28, 2009)

I bought mine today a Sports Academey and Outdoors in Oklahoma City for $24.95.


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## Benson (May 2, 2009)

Well, the mysterious 090/060 is solved -- it's definitely 090, because my 3D Rebel said 091 (and the 1 had a serif at the top, so it's definitely not 160 ).

Someone asked about this with an aspheric lens -- it can work out pretty nice, particularly if someone's looking for a Q&D setup (which is all I've tried...). I thought it would, because the cheap lens I had sitting around has a focal length substantially longer than a Mag PR-style reflector, so the head has to be unscrewed past the O-ring. Since the Rebel switch assembly is shorter, for a reflector with longer focal length, it works quite nicely.

I left the original reflector in the original head, calibrated for tight spot when fully tight, and used a second (non-Rebel) Mag head for the aspheric. I'm not certain whether the heads are identical, but I'm not gonna uncalibrate my focus to check. If you take the reflector out of the standard head, and drop in a "2mm" glass lens (10-pack: DX sku.10647 -- throw one in your reflector head, too!) and a 50mm glass aspheric (DX sku.12834), it'll focus quite nicely with the o-ring well-covered, but substantial room to "overfocus" for a nice flood.


NOTE: I just realized before posting this, that things may not focus quite the same if you use a straight-up 2D or 3D Rebel. This may get a bit confusing, so hang on: Due to local availability, I bought a 3D Rebel and a 2AA 4-mode Rebel, and put the 2AA pill in the 3D's switch assembly, and vice-versa. Of course, now the voltages didn't match, so I used a 14670 Li-ion in the 2xAA, and swapped the 3D switch (with 2-cell 4-mode pill) and head onto a 2D incan body.

In short, I turned
3D Rebel (1-mode)
2D incan
2AA Rebel (4-mode)
into
2D Rebel (4-mode)
14670+spacer Rebel (1-mode)
3D incan with 2D bulbs <--- this is just a spare host.

But since the incan body I'm using has more threads than the Rebel body, I can bring the lens closer to the emitter than I could with a Rebel body. (Conversely, my 2D head won't tighten as close as normal -- I hope this won't cause me grief later... :green If I had to guess, I'd say you'll be fine with the setup described above in a pure Rebel, you just won't be able to get as wide a flood -- but it's still possible you couldn't quite focus the whole way. If so, you could probably leave out the "2mm" lens and add a thick oring in front of the aspheric...


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## Toohotruk (May 2, 2009)

So, the 4 modes work just fine in the bigger light then?


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## Benson (May 2, 2009)

Toohotruk said:


> So, the 4 modes work just fine in the bigger light then?


Yes -- they work the same as in the minimag, except now I have momentary, and don't need to mess up my focus to switch modes.


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## thermal guy (May 2, 2009)

Does the 3d model appear to be brighter then the 2d?Stupid question i know but were talking mag here.


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## Benson (May 2, 2009)

thermal guy said:


> Does the 3d model appear to be brighter then the 2d?Stupid question i know but were talking mag here.


Well, I don't have a proper 2D Rebel to compare; the 2AA pill running on 2x NiMH D cells is dimmer than the 3D pill running on 1x14670 -- I'd estimate it maybe 30% dimmer by ceiling bounce.

This could mean the minimags are tuned for lower output to preserve battery life, or it could mean the 3-cell pills are brighter than the 2-cell (as with the old LuxIII MagLEDs), or some combination. Too many variables to tell much from these two lights.


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## Fooboy (May 13, 2009)

what is the runtime on the 2d and 3d rebels?

Anyone know?


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## rmteo (May 13, 2009)

With alkalines in the 2D Rebel MAG, you should get 20+ hours of pretty constant output. With 10000mAH NiMH cells, I get almost 12 hours. Don't know about the 3D - I'm guessing you will get 50% more run time with output remaining the same as the 2D.


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## Fooboy (May 13, 2009)

rmteo said:


> With alkalines in the 2D Rebel MAG, you should get 20+ hours of pretty constant output. With 10000mAH NiMH cells, I get almost 12 hours. Don't know about the 3D - I'm guessing you will get 50% more run time with output remaining the same as the 2D.



Thanks! Mind if I ask where you got those figures?


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## rmteo (May 13, 2009)

For the NiMH cells, I ran a light till it started to dim after almost 12 hours. For the alkalines, I extrapolated the run times.


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## jzmtl (May 14, 2009)

If you get 12 hours to dim with NiMH, alkaline would give you maybe 8 hours of constant output before dimming, but would run longer after dim compare to NiMH.


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## jzmtl (May 14, 2009)

This is weird, I swapped pill between 2D and 2AA, the amp draw on 2AA jumped up to over 1 amp while the 2D dropped to 0.4 (which is about what the pill take in 2AA before swap). However in dark room ceiling bounce I could NOT tell which is brighter. 


By the way, 2D rebel is not as bright as 3D SSC, SSC isn't premium bin either, it was bought from DX.


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## rmteo (May 14, 2009)

The drivers in the 2AA and 2D appear to be different internally - even though they may be physically interchanged.

On my 2AA, current draw is 0.42A pn high and and on the 2D about 0.95A - similar to your results.


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## jzmtl (May 14, 2009)

Thanks, that confirms my measurement is not off.

I'm going to try compare output again after it's dark. The only reason I bought 2D is to swap pills for a brighter one mode 2AA, but if the output isn't different enough I'll just return the 2D.


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## GPB (May 14, 2009)

How hard is it to switch the LED from the Mini Mag to the 2D Mag ? Has anyone posted written instructions for this swap ?? Does it involve a lot of modifications to the light, switch and reflector ? Is there a lot of soldering involved ? I'd love to try this but don't want to end up with a pile of parts and no working lights.


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## jzmtl (May 14, 2009)

No need for any of that, both mag use physically identical pill, the swap takes 5 minutes tops.

For minimag remove head and tailcap, push on the metal can of the pill and it drops out. For D mag yank out the rubber switch cover, use 5/32" (I think) hex wrench to reach in and loosen the screw, then remove head to push the whole assembly out from bottom. Now remove the stud that reflector cam pushes on with the same hex wrench, and everything comes apart.




I tried comparison again, 2D pill is a little brighter than 2AA pill in room bounce, but the difference is very minimal.


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## GPB (May 15, 2009)

Thanks. I'm willing to give up some brightness to get the run time of the multi mode. The 2D is already pretty bright so losing a little isn't such a sacrifice. The run time for the 2D on low must be incredible though !!!


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## GPB (May 15, 2009)

arrrrggghhhhhh !!!! I'm sitting here with a pile of parts and neither light works. Well...I don't know if the mini mag works, but I couldn't get the 2D to work with the multi stage module, so I switched it back to the original, and I can't get that to work either.....ugh.


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## jzmtl (May 15, 2009)

the minimag should be pretty straight forward, slide in pill from end, drop in battery and hold with finger, the snap on the plastic collar from top.

the 2D inside the tower there's a leaf spring for - contact, I recall it would need to be on the outside of collar so watch that. Basically you drop in the spring, then the cone shaped thingy, then pill, then collar. Line up the hole on collar and screw in the stud, and the tower assembly is complete, make sure you are not forgetting any parts.


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## GPB (May 15, 2009)

I've got all the parts. The tower works outside the light if I hold it on 2 cells and run a jumper from the tail of the bottom battery to the set screw that holds the tower in place. I'm resonably certain the batteries are making contact with the tower when its installed. I believe that only leaves the spring to tail cap connection, the tail cap to barrel connection, or the tower set screw to light body connection. I just took a wire brush attachment on my drill and tried to remove some anodizing from the tail cap and body......if that's not the problem, I'm throwing it all in a big ziplog baggy and going to bed !!


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## vestureofblood (May 16, 2009)

jzmtl said:


> For minimag remove head and tailcap, push on the metal can of the pill and it drops out. QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Is this the way to remove the pill from a traditional minimag led, or will this only work on the new style rebel?


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## jzmtl (May 16, 2009)

Can't help you there I'm afraid, don't have a luxeon minimag.


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## Toohotruk (May 16, 2009)

Look at this POST.


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## Trashman (May 16, 2009)

Sorry, if it's already been posted, but Costco has a 3D/2AA combo for $29.99 and they've both got rebels in them.


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## hoffmand (May 16, 2009)

I'm going to pick up one of the 3D/2AA combos from Costco. I have a lot of Eneloop AA, so I'm wondering if these adapters will work?
dx sku.7031

What should I expect from them? Same brightness but shorter runtime, or just a big explosion ? If these won't work are there any other options to use AA batteries in the 3D?

Thanks


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## jzmtl (May 16, 2009)

hoffmand said:


> I'm going to pick up one of the 3D/2AA combos from Costco. I have a lot of Eneloop AA, so I'm wondering if these adapters will work?
> dx sku.7031
> 
> What should I expect from them? Same brightness but shorter runtime, or just a big explosion ? If these won't work are there any other options to use AA batteries in the 3D?
> ...



They'll work fine. Runtime is hard to say, but I'd guess a little less time in regulation, and a lot less time in moon mode.


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## GPB (May 16, 2009)

I went and got a new 2D rebel and made the switch with the LED from the Multi mode, mini mag. This time it worked without a hitch and took about 5 minutes. I don't know what was wrong with the other light, but that's the nice thing about something with a guarantee. I returned it and kept the new one. Now I have a multi mode 2D Mag and am pretty happy with it. I also now have a mini mag with a single mode rebel that is brighter than it was before. I don't mind losing the multi modes in that because I use it around the house with rechargeables so I never really worry about run time or battery usage with that one.


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## Benson (May 17, 2009)

vestureofblood said:


> jzmtl said:
> 
> 
> > For minimag remove head and tailcap, push on the metal can of the pill and it drops out.
> ...


Yep, the parts are a little different, but the procedure's the same.


----------



## jzmtl (May 18, 2009)

The 2D module has a very good regulation. I use it in minimag and it has no visible decline during full output. When it drop out of full output I can see it rapidly dims down to a much lower level, but still going. Two NiMH AA is at about 1.1v each.

On another note the minimag has very good heatsinking ability, the whole light got warm during full output. After the output drop I immediately took out the module and it's only warm to touch.

So far I really like running 2D module in 2AA minimag (draws 1 amp so alkaline won't work).


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## GPB (May 18, 2009)

I love the 2d module in the mini-mag also. It "seems" brighter than the MMMM ( multi-mode-mini-mag). I am going to be picking up another one soon so I can do a side-by-side comparison. 

I have run mine on both NiMH and Alkalines though, and it seems to be fine on either.

While I was trying to figure out what went wrong with my initial module transplant, I noticed that the single mode LED would run on 1 cell, while the multi mode wouldn't even light up uness I had 2 cells together. I'd guess that since the multi mode has more sophisticated regulation with the modes and the soft start that it also has a low voltage cut off that the single mode doesn't have. I'd assume this would give a longer moon mode to the single stage LED, but that's just a guess.


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## jzmtl (May 18, 2009)

GPB said:


> I have run mine on both NiMH and Alkalines though, and it seems to be fine on either.



Really? I'm suprised alkaline would survive for any reasonable amount of time with 1 amp draw.


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## GPB (May 18, 2009)

I ran it for about 20 minutes to see how warm it would get and then I usually just use it for short periods ( peek in the kids room, look in the back of a closet..that kind of thing )

I just picked up another mini mag to run side by side tonight when it gets dark. $21.97 at Lowe's


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## Blue72 (May 19, 2009)

GPB said:


> I just picked up another mini mag to run side by side tonight when it gets dark. $21.97 at Lowe's




How did it compare? Any updates?


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## hoffmand (May 19, 2009)

Grrr, my Costco only has the older LED maglites. Am i better off buying the 2D or 3D rebel from Lowes, etc instead of modding my old 2D incan?


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## GPB (May 19, 2009)

The mini-mag with the single mode, rebel LED from the 2D was noticeably brighter than the multi-mode mini mag. I am now trying to do a run time test on the mini mag on low. I say "trying" because my wife insists on turning off a light if I leave it on, so I have to hide them. It ran for about 2.5 hours on high and then dropped off pretty quickly. It still had useable light, but it wasn't anywhere near full brightness.


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## jzmtl (May 19, 2009)

2D module in 2AA host ran for 2:25 before dropping out of regulation on freshly charged energizer 2500, with no visible drop in brightness during regulation. This is consistant with 1 amp power draw, and I would say the regulation is pretty good.


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## Trashman (May 20, 2009)

hoffmand said:


> Grrr, my Costco only has the older LED maglites. Am i better off buying the 2D or 3D rebel from Lowes, etc instead of modding my old 2D incan?



Next time I go, I'll try to get the sku#. There's a good chance that your Costco may have them, but they're not on the floor, yet. A few years ago, when the Costco HID hit the scene and the sku# was posted here, I went looking for them. They weren't on the floor, but I gave the sku# to an employee, he entered it into the computer, saw that they had them, and then went searching for them. They were up, above the other items on the floor. They weren't marked or anything, but he found them and opened the pallet up and gave me a couple. He said something like, "I don't know how you knew we had these, because I didn't even know about them, but there you go..." When I first described it, he was doubtful, but I gave him the sku#, which left him scratching his head, after the computer said they had them.


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## hoffmand (May 20, 2009)

Great, thanks. I'm looking for a "honey, what's that noise outside" light and I think the 3D rebel fits the bill.


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## GPB (May 20, 2009)

I haven't seen a 3D rebel....just a 2D rebel. That doesn't mean they aren't out there, but the rebel version is considerably better than the luxeon version so it would be worth it to make sure you're getting the rebel.


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## Benson (May 20, 2009)

GPB said:


> I haven't seen a 3D rebel....just a 2D rebel. That doesn't mean they aren't out there, but the rebel version is considerably better than the luxeon version so it would be worth it to make sure you're getting the rebel.



Yeah, they are out there.


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## GPB (May 20, 2009)

Is the 3D brighter than the 2D ?


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## lightinsky (May 20, 2009)

I saw the 3D Rebel at Walmart today. It says 091 inside not 090. I'd like to know if it is brighter than the 2D too.


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## CARman (May 24, 2009)

lightinsky said:


> I saw the 3D Rebel at Walmart today. It says 091 inside not 090. I'd like to know if it is brighter than the 2D too.


 
I got a 3D Rebel today at walmart and just tried it outside against a 2D Rebel and it appears to me to be just a little brighter and throws just a little bit further, nothing spectacular.

I'm sure the 3D has a longer run time which will be a plus.

The 3D has 091 on the led as opposed to the 090 on the 2D.


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## Burgess (May 24, 2009)

Thank you for the info, CARman.


BTW . . . .


Welcome to CandlePowerForums !


:welcome:



Can you tell us what *colors* you saw the new 3-D models ?


Just "boring black", or Reds and Blues ?

_


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## SoCalDep (May 25, 2009)

I know there were a couple complaints related to the durability of the Rebel/Mags...Well, I really like the size of a 2D Maglite, and was unsatisfied with the older LED model (the one I had broke) and when I saw this thread I got excited. I was going to order a Malkloff, but they weren't available, so I picked up a new Mag...After reading about a couple failures with some light "physical prompting", I decided to give mine a bit of a torture test:

First, I've carried it for a few days on Law Enforcement patrol duty, which means it gets generally banged around, but not enough in such a short time to convince me, so I decided to drop it straight down on the asphault parking lot directly on its tailcap from about 3-4 feet. Then I dropped it at about a 45 degree angle on the tailcap so it would then hit the head. It still worked. I beat on a bag with it for about 30 seconds and then dropped it on carpet from about 6 feet up in the air...All good. 

So far it's got a few scratches but is kicking along. The throw is great and I'm looking forward to seeing how it performs over the longer term. I work day shift so I don't use my lights as much, but they are still necessary. I have a Surefire X200 on my duty pistol (not as bright as the Rebel Mag), a Fenix TK20 on my belt, and I own several Surefire and Streamlight flashlights. I'm new to CPF, and I'm not super-educated on lumens, voltage, and that stuff, but I'm about durability, and what works best for my given situation. The Mag is bright, can be an impact weapon of necessity, and doesn't bust the budget.

I'll be buying another one for home use and my older 2D Mag will wait patiently for a Malkoff upgrade. In the mean-time, the Rebel Mag seems to be a worthy substitute.


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## 22hornet (May 25, 2009)

Hello,

I would very much like to buy a 2D rebel, but I live in Belgium and I do not know which online sellers do offer them. Can someone help me?

Thanks,
Joris


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## CARman (May 25, 2009)

Burgess said:


> Thank you for the info, CARman.
> 
> 
> BTW . . . .
> ...


 
Thanks Burgess, unfortunately our local Walmart only had the one 3D Rebel I bought, and it was of course black. I also checked at Lowes and they did have the 2D Rebels, also only in black, but no 3D's.


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## o0o (May 25, 2009)

For those not apt at telling LEDs apart, is there a way to tell if a Maglite at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. is a Rebel or older model? Does it say anything on the package?


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## o0o (May 25, 2009)

Went to Lowes and target and picked up a 2D and 3D.

I believe the 2D may have the Rebel, and the 3 D has the older LED based on the pix in this thread.

This Ds should give outstanding run time I suspect.

Thinking about the future, a Mag LED in C cells (2,3,4 options) would be an ideal combination of runtime and size (they're much thinner in diameter than D-cells, yet still have plenty of juice).


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## o0o (May 25, 2009)

I must say, these Mag LEDs are nice.

There are tons of throw on both my 3W and Rebel version.

The beams are MUCH better quality than the incandescent models. The color renditioin is very white, which I guess means I won the luxeon lottery.

Sure, these are no Surefires, but for the price they are much better than practically every other D-size lights I've tried. 

I will pick up more of these eventually, and try to stick with the Rebel model when possible. I'm also looking forward to a C-cell version.


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## BlueBeam22 (Jul 14, 2009)

Marduke,

Thank you very much for posting this thread about the new Rebel MagLites, it was extremely helpful. :thumbsup: I bought a 3D Mag-LED Rebel from Lowe's today, and I am astonished by its throw.

Thank you for the excellent photos of the LED module in this light, they helped me know exactly how to identify the new Rebel version. 

I compared it directly with my Dorcy 220 lumen LED flashlight, and they appeared exactly equal in throw. The Mag Rebel however had a much wider and sharper hotspot, and IMHO because of this it did a better job at illuminating distant objects such as trees.

Here is a beamshot of it shining at my house from just under 30 yards away to demonstrate its extreme beam concentration at its tightest focus.

Control:






Mag 3D Rebel on:


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## milkshake (Jul 14, 2009)

i have to say that my mag rebel has been worth every penny that i gave. i clean machines every night with 140 degree high pressure hoses and use this light to find meat and film within the machines. my room gets so steamed up its hard to see the machines half the time. it's nothing uncommon to knock this thing off 4 foot drops onto gritty concrete or hit it with the high pressure water and i have yet to find any water inside or have a malfunction. i run it off rechargeables and they usually last me through the whole week and then i charge them on the weekend. i needed a flashlight that would stand the abuse night after night and for 30 bucks this light fit the job with no regrets. oh, and its pretty bright too. it holds its ground quite well against my Olight T20 claiming around 220 lumens. atleast to my eyes.


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## Nite (Jul 24, 2009)

why anyone would want a stock D size MagLite slamming into their thigh while chasing a suspect or a lost dog, In daylight...just before dark so you have to have it on you anyway.

When i discovered SF I stopped getting bruised thighs from a holster that left it dangling on my side. I only carried it when volunteering for aux police...

the modified incan mags ive seen on youtube & here though are amazing.

this light can go into a hurricane emergency kit, for some other member of my family, when its on clearance at target.

but then again I have plenty of lights and SF cells. Many LED lights and AA cells.


*Ok after reading 10 more pages, I see that for the money this is a pretty cool light. *

However I have a Fenix 2AA light thats almost as bright but lasts for 3 hours..fits in a pocket.

I am new to LED. I dont know what emitter my Fenix E20 has.


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## milkshake (Aug 9, 2009)

i prefer the d cell over much smaller lights at work because it's much easier to locate when placed in or around machines and alot easier to handle when wearing insulated gloves


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## Dark Laser (Aug 9, 2009)

Nite said:


> I dont know what emitter my Fenix E20 has



It has got a Cree Q2. Nice light...a good addition (more flood light) to my TK20 (nice throw) :thumbsup:

@22hornet: Though I can't help you, I feel with you (honestly - look where I live )


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## jzmtl (Aug 17, 2009)

This is funny, the 2D module will run perfectly fine on 1 cell. Brightness is reduced a bit but it's nice to know if you only got 1 battery it'll work with a wad of aluminum foil as spacer.


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## rmteo (Aug 18, 2009)

In a previous post, I tested a 2D Rebel on a bench power supply to see how low it would go. IIRC, it started to dim noticeably at about 2.0V and continued to give output until 0.8-0.7V before it cut out completely.


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## metlarules (Sep 1, 2009)

rmteo said:


> In a previous post, I tested a 2D Rebel on a bench power supply to see how low it would go. IIRC, it started to dim noticeably at about 2.0V and continued to give output until 0.8-0.7V before it cut out completely.


 I wonder what the upper limit is before it goes . I'm not suggesting you try it. I'm just wondering.


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## rmteo (Sep 1, 2009)

I ran the 2D up to 4.8V - where the current draw was about 0.42A.


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## jabe1 (Sep 9, 2009)

Just got off the phone with Mag sales. The new 2C and XL-100 are sleted for release at the end of October. Apparently Home Depot will get them first.
I'm actually looking forward to the new 2C, the rep said it will be "really bright" however that can be interpreted!


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## Swordforthelord (Sep 10, 2009)

Hopefully they will come out in October; a month or two their rep told me they would be released in September.


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## Big_Ed (Sep 10, 2009)

jabe1 said:


> Just got off the phone with Mag sales. The new 2C and XL-100 are sleted for release at the end of October. Apparently Home Depot will get them first.
> I'm actually looking forward to the new 2C, the rep said it will be "really bright" however that can be interpreted!



I'm looking forward to both of these lights.


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## Flashfirstask?later (Sep 11, 2009)

jabe1 said:


> Just got off the phone with Mag sales. The new XL-100 are slated for release at the end of October.


While I know the light looks like a over sized Solitaire with a clicky, is it confirmed to be a 3xAAA or 3xAA ?


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## Burgess (Sep 11, 2009)

i am *hoping* it'll be 3xAA cells.


I simply *hate* 3xAAA flashlights.


:eeew:
_


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## jabe1 (Sep 11, 2009)

Flashfirstask?later said:


> While I know the light looks like a over sized Solitaire with a clicky, is it confirmed to be a 3xAAA or 3xAA ?




I'm pretty sure it's a 3AAA :thumbsdow.
There is a thread on it... search for XL-100


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## Blindasabat (Sep 11, 2009)

Luckily, many 3AAA lights can accept an 18500 with a spacer. My only 3AAA non-headlight has run on 18500 half it's life. I only bought it because it was $4.50, fwd clicky, and easily moddable.


jabe1 said:


> I'm pretty sure it's a 3AAA .
> There is a thread on it... search for XL-100


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## Flashfirstask?later (Sep 11, 2009)

jabe1 said:


> I'm pretty sure it's a 3AAA :thumbsdow.
> There is a thread on it... search for XL-100


Yes I know about that thread as I posted in it. It was more speculation then confirmed at time but when you have two sites mentioned there, saying it is 3xAAA then well I am not paying $40+ dollars for it. Though if 18*** works then maybe or maybe not.


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## adirondackdestroyer (Sep 11, 2009)

Has anyone done lux measurements of the 3D Rebel version yet?


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## david86 (Sep 13, 2009)

i just got the terralux upgrade for my regular 3d mag and compared it with it my 3d rebel and it visibly seems brighter then the terralux upgrade....which is rated at 140 lumens...wish i had a light meter to really find out.


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## lightinsky (Sep 13, 2009)

david86 said:


> i just got the terralux upgrade for my regular 3d mag and compared it with it my 3d rebel and it visibly seems brighter then the terralux upgrade....which is rated at 140 lumens...wish i had a light meter to really find out.


 
I have a 2D Rebel and it seems as bright and tighter hot spot than my G2 with a Cree Q5 from Solarforce in it. If the 3D is about 140 lumens with a Rebel -091 I wonder if the 2D with a Rebel -090 is close to the 3D?


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## david86 (Sep 14, 2009)

lightinsky said:


> I have a 2D Rebel and it seems as bright and tighter hot spot than my G2 with a Cree Q5 from Solarforce in it. If the 3D is about 140 lumens with a Rebel -091 I wonder if the 2D with a Rebel -090 is close to the 3D?


 



well im not sure if i understand your post or maybe you read mine wrong....? the incandescant 3d with the terralux drop in is rated at 140 lumens....but the rebel still visibly looks brighter...so my assumption is the rebel is maybe 160 lumens??? i dont know..i have no way of testing this officially.


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## o0o (Sep 27, 2009)

I've had mine for months now, and it is exactly what I want. 

A metal flashlight that runs on D batteries that can run a long time, and is reliable and well made.

It also can double as a club if the poop hits the fan.

For $30, IMO the Rebel mags are a good buy.


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## UpChUcK (Oct 23, 2009)

lightinsky said:


> I have a 2D Rebel and it seems as bright and tighter hot spot than my G2 with a Cree Q5 from Solarforce in it. If the 3D is about 140 lumens with a Rebel -091 I wonder if the 2D with a Rebel -090 is close to the 3D?



Here's a beamshot comparison between the 2D and 3D (2D on left):

Canon 30D, 21mm, f/8.0, 200 ISO

1/50 sec.






1/100 sec.





1/400 sec.






They are very close in brightness but the 3D just barely edges out the 2D.


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## deeuubee (Oct 26, 2009)

Has anybody found out how many lumens the new Mag Rebel LED is?

I've always been a sucker for Maglites. My first mod, I put a Seoul SSC P4 with a VIP boost driver @ 1000 ma into a 2D Mag . It is still one of the brightest single LED lights I have. (compared to my Lumapower M-1 Rebel and DX VB-16) I have no idea how many lumens it is.

I picked up one of the new 3D Mag LED Rebels and was very impressed with it. It is much brighter than the SSC P4. (Beamshots tommorrow) The bright 4 mode AA was a bonus for the $30.

edit: sorry, I didn't realise how many different places I was talking about this. Runtime and beamshots...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/230583&page=2 post#35


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## Phaserburn (Nov 4, 2009)

Has anyone done a runtime plot for the 2D and 3D rebel? I can't believe it that no one has!


----------



## Toohotruk (Nov 4, 2009)




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## JamisonM (Nov 4, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> Has anyone done a runtime plot for the 2D and 3D rebel? I can't believe it that no one has!


I'd expect runtime to be about the same as the older luxeon maglites. The only difference would be that these will be brighter even with the dimming because of the more efficient rebel emitter.


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## Phaserburn (Nov 5, 2009)

JamisonM said:


> I'd expect runtime to be about the same as the older luxeon maglites. The only difference would be that these will be brighter even with the dimming because of the more efficient rebel emitter.


 
I don't think so. I believe that the Rebel version is pulling significantly more power from the batteries; therefore, the circuit is different. Runtime should be significantly shorter in regulation.


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## JamisonM (Nov 5, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> I don't think so. I believe that the Rebel version is pulling significantly more power from the batteries; therefore, the circuit is different. Runtime should be significantly shorter in regulation.


I can't say I agree with you. Why would they want to up the current? There still isn't any decent heatsinking to speak of. My opinion is that they are pulling the same, but because of the rebel emitters, are putting out more light. Kind of like what an emitter swap with a P4 would have accomplished. That would have been the most cost effective performance improvement. However, I can't say exactly as I don't have one of both in my hand to test. It wouldn't surprise me if they did what you say though. These lights are a bit different than their older luxeon lights.


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## Lynx_Arc (Nov 5, 2009)

JamisonM said:


> I can't say I agree with you. Why would they want to up the current? There still isn't any decent heatsinking to speak of. My opinion is that they are pulling the same, but because of the rebel emitters, are putting out more light. Kind of like what an emitter swap with a P4 would have accomplished. That would have been the most cost effective performance improvement. However, I can't say exactly as I don't have one of both in my hand to test. It wouldn't surprise me if they did what you say though. These lights are a bit different than their older luxeon lights.



what I have seen from replacing emitters in lights is newer emitters that are more efficient also have a considerably lower Vf which makes it easier for more current to flow through them hence higher current draw. They are brighter because of this also. but unless you have more than a simple buck/boost circuit a lower Vf emitter will probably pull more current because it can. Also a lower Vf emitter will operate at lower voltages too if the drive circuit doesn't shut off at some point it can get more juice from the battery before it is unusable.


----------



## Phaserburn (Nov 5, 2009)

That the rebel is pulling more current (due to the lower vf or circuit change, I don't know which) isn't in debate; it does. With higher draw, the life of the alk Ds at flat regulation won't be nearly as long as with the lower draw of the luxeon model. So, that's why I would like to see a runtime plot of the rebel. I know it's been done for the luxeon models.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Nov 5, 2009)

I would say a *guess* would be take the power used by the lux, divide it by the power used by the rebel and that would be the runtime in percentage.


----------



## JamisonM (Nov 5, 2009)

Lynx_Arc said:


> what I have seen from replacing emitters in lights is newer emitters that are more efficient also have a considerably lower Vf which makes it easier for more current to flow through them hence higher current draw. They are brighter because of this also. but unless you have more than a simple buck/boost circuit a lower Vf emitter will probably pull more current because it can. Also a lower Vf emitter will operate at lower voltages too if the drive circuit doesn't shut off at some point it can get more juice from the battery before it is unusable.


Looking at the data sheets, at 700mA, a luxeon III has a vf of 3.7v and a rebel 3.4v. How much of an impact will that have on current draw? I have to say, this is new to me, that if I replaced an older emitter with a newer, more efficient one, the current draw would go up. Got a link to where I can learn more about it?


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Nov 5, 2009)

JamisonM said:


> Looking at the data sheets, at 700mA, a luxeon III has a vf of 3.7v and a rebel 3.4v. How much of an impact will that have on current draw? I have to say, this is new to me, that if I replaced an older emitter with a newer, more efficient one, the current draw would go up. Got a link to where I can learn more about it?


not taking into account battery resistance you could consider the LED like a resistor although they don't exactly act like one in every respect they are close. You can calculate the difference using Ohms Law E=IR where E = voltage, I = amperage, and R = resistance (in ohms).
3.7v @ 700ma R=E/I or 3.7/0.7 = 5.29 ohms
3.4v @ 700ma 3.4/0.7 = 4.86 ohms
depending on the initial voltage if you were to run both at 3.7v you
would get this
first one would be 700ma using I = E/R for the second one (3.4v Vf)
we would get 3.7v/4.86ohms = 760ma or about 8.6% higher current draw.
I would say that this could make it run perhaps 8-10 percent shorter time but the LED would put out slightly more lumens due to the 8.6% higher current applied to it. The power would be as follows
3.7v 700ma = 2.59watts
3.4v 700ma = 2.38watts
3.7v 760ma = 2.81watts so the led would be driven about 18% harder than spec (extra 0.3v, extra 60ma)
now driving it 18% harder it will produce more heat and slightly reduce efficiency due to extra heat loss, that I cannnot calculate without some sort of equation or extrapolating from lower to higher outputs light vs current.


----------



## JamisonM (Nov 5, 2009)

Lynx_Arc said:


> not taking into account battery resistance you could consider the LED like a resistor although they don't exactly act like one in every respect they are close. You can calculate the difference using Ohms Law E=IR where E = voltage, I = amperage, and R = resistance (in ohms).
> 3.7v @ 700ma R=E/I or 3.7/0.7 = 5.29 ohms
> 3.4v @ 700ma 3.4/0.7 = 4.86 ohms
> depending on the initial voltage if you were to run both at 3.7v you
> ...


Let me see. Lets say that the driver is sending 700mA to the LED. At that current, it will have a vf of 3.4v. Right there, that equals 4.86 ohms. So It has less resistance then the at the same current than the older luxeon III. Total power consumed is 2.38 watts. Again, this is less then the old luxeon III. Looking at that, you'd actually have slightly better runtime because of the lower vf of the rebel. Still, I don't quite understand how the LED is drawing more current. Is it solely because of it's lower resistance? I just don't get it. If the driver feeds the LED 700mA, then isn't that all it gets? I think I'm missing something here.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Nov 5, 2009)

JamisonM said:


> Let me see. Lets say that the driver is sending 700mA to the LED. At that current, it will have a vf of 3.4v. Right there, that equals 4.86 ohms. So It has less resistance then the at the same current than the older luxeon III. Total power consumed is 2.38 watts. Again, this is less then the old luxeon III. Looking at that, you'd actually have slightly better runtime because of the lower vf of the rebel. Still, I don't quite understand how the LED is drawing more current. Is it solely because of it's lower resistance? I just don't get it. If the driver feeds the LED 700mA, then isn't that all it gets? I think I'm missing something here.



a lower resistance allows current to flow easier, higher resistance impedes current flow. essentially lower Vf LEDs tend to act like lower resistant devices and will allow more current to flow at lower voltages and many simple buck/boost circuits don't tend to regulate current but instead are designed to boost voltage expecting a certain load or resistance on them. If you put a lower resistance they could even put out even higher voltage than normal. By the way... you really don't *force* voltage across a circuit instead a resistance load *allows* current to flow based upon the voltage source. If your resistance load is too high almost no current will flow. If you cut a wire going to an LED the air between the cut wires is nearly infinite resistance so no current flows.


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## deeuubee (Nov 18, 2009)

I have been checking out my Rebel 3D.

I'm doing an informal runtime test using fresh charged Accupower 10,000 mAh NiMH batteries.

Start: 4.18 Volts, 390 ma at the tail cap 

10 hour mark: 3.75 volts, 440 ma at tail cap

I took photos at start up, and 10 hours. It's a little dimmer, but not much by my eyes.

I don't know how long it will go, but I'm going to stop at 3 volts.


edit: sorry, I didn't realise how many different places I was talking about this. Runtime and beamshots...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=230583&page=2 post#35 

I figure it's dropped on average 0.043 volts per hour in the last 10 hours.

If it stays steady, I'm guessing 17.45 more hours until I reach 3.0 volts. Lets see how close I get with my non-scientific guess. 

27.45 hours won't be too bad in my book.


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## tnforever (Nov 18, 2009)

deeuubee said:


> I have been checking out my Rebel 3D.
> 
> I'm doing an informal runtime test using fresh charged Accupower 10,000 mAh NiMH batteries.
> 
> ...



Hey do you have the figures with alkalines?

I think because Mags are widely put off as being second tier lights here, they're often neglected in terms of having full tests done on them. I would sure love to see how they do, since I find them useful (and cheap and reliable) lights for general duty.


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## Hacken (Nov 18, 2009)

Marduke said:


> While at Lowe's tonight checking for the Remington headlamp, I happened to look down at the Mag's. And what do I see, but Rebel LED's in the 2D and 3D models!! They were stamped with "060", which suggests to me that they were Rebel 60's.
> 
> Should focus into a tighter spot now.



that's still too big for a flash light. i'll still take a tk11 or t20c2 over that any day.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 18, 2009)

Not too big to be at strategic locations around the house. Pretty bright too (at least the 2D I have) and a pretty good spot.

Personally I'll take my Fenix P2D/EagleTac P10C2 combo over anything C or D for carry!


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## Phaserburn (Nov 19, 2009)

To me, Mags are the perfect loaner/emergency light when getting involved with non-flashaholics. You don't have to explain them, no caveats about rechargeable batteries, heat etc. They take garden variety D cells and can easily be reloaded by anyone. They are tough and are the very definition of a knock about beater light. And, the rebel versions are actually decent output, reliable lights that will get real world jobs done.

I'm not a massive Mag fan vs the zillions of other lights I have, but I appreciate them for what they are. If 100s of rescue workers were about to wade into a disaster area at a moment's notice, Mag D rebels are what I'd want them equipped with.


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## Toohotruk (Nov 20, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> To me, Mags are the perfect loaner/emergency light when getting involved with non-flashaholics. You don't have to explain them, no caveats about rechargeable batteries, heat etc. They take garden variety D cells and can easily be reloaded by anyone. They are tough and are the very definition of a knock about beater light. And, the rebel versions are actually decent output, reliable lights that will get real world jobs done.
> 
> I'm not a massive Mag fan vs the zillions of other lights I have, but I appreciate them for what they are. If 100s of rescue workers were about to wade into a disaster area at a moment's notice, Mag D rebels are what I'd want them equipped with.



+1 I've owned, and I have known a lot of people that have owned Mags, and I can attest to their toughness. LEDs have solved the biggest weakness Mag incans have...you can drop them even while turned on and they will easily survive. I've lost more Mags due to leaky alkaline batteries, than from damage...in fact, I've never had a Mag fail from being dropped, or used as a hammer, etc, other than incan bulbs of course.


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## ncka (Nov 21, 2009)

metlarules said:


> Sorry about the double post but I just realized something. On the Luxeon Rebel web page the only 060 it list is under the warm white emitters. It puts out 60 lumens at 350ma. The 090 puts out 90 lumens at 350ma. To me this is a win-win situation. If its a 090 we get a pretty efficient emitter. If its an 060 we get a warm incandescent like light. Scroll down to products on the Lux rebel web page and click on cool,neutral,and then warm. You will see what I'm talking about. The old Lux 3 that the mag drop in use to use is rated at 60 lumens @700 ma.


 
Mag only uses the Rebel 90 emitter in their Mini Mag LED.


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## DigMe (Nov 26, 2009)

ncka said:


> Mag only uses the Rebel 90 emitter in their Mini Mag LED.




what do you base that on? According to many folks in this thread the new Rebel 2D and 3D mags are using Rebel 90s.

brad


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## Probedude (Nov 27, 2009)

On sale at Lowes, 2D for just a tick under $15.
The 2-AA is $10.97

Dave


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## ronkar (Nov 27, 2009)

Got one. Lowes has plenty of the 2D's in several colors, but could not find a single AA. They do not have general internet in the store, only their own website, so even customer service could not help me. 

Maybe tomorrow? 

They seemed to be rolling more things out even at noon time.


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## Probedude (Nov 27, 2009)

ronkar said:


> Got one. Lowes has plenty of the 2D's in several colors, but could not find a single AA. They do not have general internet in the store, only their own website, so even customer service could not help me.
> 
> Maybe tomorrow?
> 
> They seemed to be rolling more things out even at noon time.



They had a lot at my store (Ventura, CA). There was an area in front of the cash registers with 2D's and 2-AA's.

The AA is impressive, 4 mode operation too.


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## DigMe (Nov 27, 2009)

I thought the flier said they would also have the 3Ds at $15 too. Did anyone see those for that price? I'm looking to replace the incandescent club that has resided in my car for the past 10 years or so. I was planning on heading into town tonight to pick one up. 

FYI: if your Lowe's is out then just take the printed ad to Wal-mart and they will price match any ad.


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## outersquare (Nov 27, 2009)

i bought six as gifts haha


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## Probedude (Nov 27, 2009)

DigMe said:


> I thought the flier said they would also have the 3Ds at $15 too.



It does, but the location they had them in my store only had 2D ones.
I used to have a 5D incandescent Mag and it was too unwieldly for certain applications. Buying a ton of D cells sucked too so this time I went for the 2D and didn't bother looking for the 3D ones.


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## Woods Walker (Nov 27, 2009)

I got the 3D Rebel LED Mag and the 2XAA Rebel muti mode mag at Lowes. 14.99 and 10.99 was darn cheap. I have a 2C that has the older LED and the Rebel sure seems like an upgrade to me. Was brighter to my eye. Also the tint was ok too. Going to toss the 2xAA into the truck. I liked the candle option shown for the 2XAA. Looked cool.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 27, 2009)

I'm about $35 short of buying insurance for my truck.

So last years 2D Rebel (or maybe I paid full price earlier this year) is just gonna have to do.

Being out of work SUCKS this time of year!

edit: BTW my 2D has an 060 Rebel. If new ones have 090 I'm sad.


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## sabre7 (Nov 27, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> I'm about $35 short of buying insurance for my truck.
> 
> So last years 2D Rebel (or maybe I paid full price earlier this year) is just gonna have to do.
> 
> ...



Sorry about you being out of work, I know that doesn't help much.  Isn't 090 the same as 060? Maybe you are just looking at it upside down, hope that helps cheer you up!!


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## outersquare (Nov 27, 2009)

yeah like most other people, i don't like odd numbered cell lights..


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## PCC (Nov 28, 2009)

I bought a 2D Rebel MagLEd today. Compared to my 2D MagLite with the older Luxeon LED module that has been upgraded with a Seoul P4 U-bin, it is roughly the same, output wise doing a bounce test off of my ceiling. The Rebel had a slight edge from what I could see. The P4 that I had used was slightly dimmer than the other P4s that I had bought from DX but it also had a warmer tint to it. I believe that the output would have been about the same or even giving a slight edge to the P4'd module had I used one of the brighter LEDs instead of that warm one.

I measured the current draw at the tailcap of a stock 2-cell Luxeon MagLED module at 1200mA, my P4'd 2-cell MagLED module drew a little over 1000mA in the same host, and the Rebel MagLED drew 1600mA, all from the same fresh Alkaline D-cells. I wonder how hard that Rebel is being driven?


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## Burgess (Nov 28, 2009)

PCC said:


> I measured the current draw at the tailcap of a stock 2-cell Luxeon MagLED module at 1200mA,
> my P4'd 2-cell MagLED module drew a little over 1000mA in the same host,
> and the *Rebel MagLED drew 1600mA*, all from the same fresh Alkaline D-cells.


 

Yikes ! ! ! 


That's a LOT of current from Alkaline D-cells !


Wonder what it is in the 3-cell models ?



Thank you for that detailed report.

:thumbsup:
_


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## Probedude (Nov 28, 2009)

PCC said:


> I measured the current draw at the tailcap of a stock 2-cell Luxeon MagLED module at 1200mA, my P4'd 2-cell MagLED module drew a little over 1000mA in the same host, and the Rebel MagLED drew 1600mA, all from the same fresh Alkaline D-cells. I wonder how hard that Rebel is being driven?



Wow! That is a lot! Wonder if I should go and return the 2D for the 3D version for longer runtime.

Just did a measurement with my 2D one. With 2 qty NiMH AA's in a D holder off the charger I got the same current draw - 1.6A.

Anyone know what the current draw is for the incandescent 2D Maglite?


----------



## Phaserburn (Nov 28, 2009)

Probedude said:


> Anyone know what the current draw is for the incandescent 2D Maglite?



.8A for the incan, regardless of cell number. My rebel draws 1.4A. This is why I have wanted to see a runtime plot for this light on alks.


----------



## 22hornet (Nov 28, 2009)

Hello,

Has someone ever posted a review of these rebel 2D or 3D models?

Kind regards,
Joris


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## SuperTrouper (Nov 28, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> .8A for the incan, regardless of cell number. My rebel draws 1.4A. This is why I have wanted to see a runtime plot for this light on alks.



Hmm this is a bit disappointing, I thought the LED Maglites would have longer runtimes than the incandescent ones. Does this mean the runtimes will be shorter?


----------



## Stress_Test (Nov 28, 2009)

Not sure what to make of the current draws, but if you look here:

http://flashlightreviews.woodlandsconnection.com/flashlightreviews/reviews/maglite_mag-led.htm

Check the last graph: All versions of the Luxeon (last generation) MagLED completely slay the incan version. I can't see that the Rebel versions would be much different.


----------



## Stress_Test (Nov 28, 2009)

By the way, does anyone know why the emitter is labeled as "091" instead of "090"? I searched the Lumileds site for any references to 091 but they only show data for the 090 part number.


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## SuperTrouper (Nov 28, 2009)

Stress_Test said:


> All versions of the Luxeon (last generation) MagLED completely slay the incan version. I can't see that the Rebel versions would be much different.



I'd be very happy if it turns out you're right, but the Rebel maglites are just SO POWERFUL compared to the incandescent bulbs, I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that they draw more power.

On Mag's website it even says that the batteries will last longer than a similarly bright incandescent flashlight.

I wonder if there are any reviewed runtimes for the Rebel versions. Maybe I'll have to try it out.....


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## Probedude (Nov 28, 2009)

Stress_Test said:


> I can't see that the Rebel versions would be much different.



Except 2 of us has measured what our 2D Rebel lights are drawing and it's 1.6A. This is higher than 0.8A for the incandescent and higher than the 1.0A Luxeon one. 

Can't run longer than the others when the current draw is higher.


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## SuperTrouper (Nov 28, 2009)

Probedude said:


> Can't run longer than the others when the current draw is higher.



It does seem to be damning evidence really.

I wonder if it's possible that the amperage is higher but the voltage draw is lower resulting in a lower draw on the batteries? Or do batteries not work like that?

Just a thought.

If the original Luxon LED Maglite replacements draw more amps than the standard incandescents there must be something different going on if there are much longer runtimes on the LED bulbs than the incans... As per the link quoted above.

Or perhaps as they heat up and lower their output, the current draw drops off?


----------



## Probedude (Nov 28, 2009)

SuperTrouper said:


> I wonder if it's possible that the amperage is higher but the voltage draw is lower resulting in a lower draw on the batteries? Or do batteries not work like that?
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> If the original Luxon LED Maglite replacements draw more amps than the standard incandescents there must be something different going on if there are much longer runtimes on the LED bulbs than the incans... As per the link quoted above.



Incandescent brightness drops off quickly with the battery voltage dropping. I think this is why LED lights run longer - they're able to use more life out of a set of batteries.

I did read that the Luxeon equipped maglites would drop their output power as they heated up. Maybe these Rebels do too.

No, you cannot draw lower voltage but higher current. 

2.5V * 1.6A = 4W of input power. Suppose they're driving this LED hard, or the conversion efficiency isn't good. 75% eff. would put 3W at the LED.

Dave


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## SuperTrouper (Nov 28, 2009)

Probedude said:


> 2.5V * 1.6A = 4W of input power. Suppose they're driving this LED hard, or the conversion efficiency isn't good. 75% eff. would put 3W at the LED.



Can I ask where the 2.5v figure comes from?


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## Probedude (Nov 28, 2009)

SuperTrouper said:


> Can I ask where the 2.5v figure comes from?



Sorry, should have been 2.6V. I was using a pair of NiMh cells off the charger. They were at 1.3V off the charger. Now that I think about it, that would explain the higher current draw if the boost circuit were trying to maintain power across the LED.

The other person said he use alkalines but maybe they were a bit discharged?


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## SuperTrouper (Nov 28, 2009)

This is all too confusing. Hopefully someone has run one of these till the batteries are dead and can tell us how long they run for.


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## Probedude (Nov 28, 2009)

Anyone know if the 3D Rebel Mag uses a buck/boost circuit or only a buck converter?

Edit: 

I hooked my 2D Rebel Maglite to my variable bench power supply and took measurements of voltage vs current.

0.4V 160mA This is when the light turns on and produces ANY light
0.6V 620mA
0.8V 920mA
1.0V 1.13A
1.2V 1.38A
1.4V 1.56A
1.6V 1.56A
1.8V 1.58A
2.0V 1.57A 
2.2V 1.50A
2.4V 1.19A
2.6V 1.00A
2.8V 870mA
3.0V 770mA
3.2V 700mA
3.4V 630mA

Will likely exchange my 2D for a 3D today and will repeat current measurements on the 3D unit.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 28, 2009)

I just tested a 2D Lux Mag and my 2D Rebel Mag.

Rebel has a 6AA in 2x3parallel with Heavy Duty AA that came with a 2 pack of Rayovac 3 Led lights.

Rebel pulls right at 1.6

Lux has 2D and pulls .8

The Rebel just might be twice as bright. But the Lux has a warmer tint so all bets are off.

Both lights have diffusing lens on them. Rebel has a bigger smoother spot and SIGNIFICANTLY brighter spill!

And I know it's been mentioned but Rebel Mag is maybe 1/4 to 3/8" longer.


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## Probedude (Nov 28, 2009)

I exchanged the 2D Rebel for the 3D Rebel Maglite. These emitters are marked '-091'

Here's V vs I for the 3D Rebel Maglite

2.5V 80mA This is when the light turns on and produces ANY light
2.6V 80mA
2.8V 100mA
3.0V 160mA
3.2V 240mA
3.4V 360mA
3.6V 500mA
3.8V 630mA
4.0V 550mA
4.2V 530mA
4.4V 500mA
4.6V 470mA
4.8V 450mA

I don't have a setup to plot brightness over time but wish I did as both the the 2D and the 3D Rebel Maglites are kind of an oddball. 

Someone verify this for me but doesn't alkaline batts start out at 1.5V, but then droop quickly to ~ 1.25V and then are 'dead' at 0.9v/cell. Seems the 2D would kill the batts pretty quick as it will try and pull > 1A out of the cells as they start to droop. 

The 3D maglite looks to not use up the alkalines as hard as it could, the 2D is too hard.





Probedude said:


> I hooked my 2D Rebel Maglite to my variable bench power supply and took measurements of voltage vs current.
> 
> 0.4V 160mA This is when the light turns on and produces ANY light
> 0.6V 620mA
> ...


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## Burgess (Nov 28, 2009)

to Probedude --


Thank you very much for those Very Detailed numbers.

:twothumbs


Very valuable information there.


:goodjob::thanks:


Glad to hear you've exchanged yer' 2-cell for a 3-cell.

_


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## Probedude (Nov 29, 2009)

Haven't been able to play with the 3D Rebel Maglite besides on the bench as I'm too cheap to buy alkaline D batts that are not on sale. Found my D cell adapters that take an AA battery (came with my Eneloops) but using them in the Maglite is a problem as the spring on the Maglite fits around the AA cell and doesn't contact the end.

Realized I could just drop in a fender washer to make a wider base for the spring to press on. Fits in the bore great so it's centered and works great.

Just went in the backyard to try out my 3D Rebel Maglite - WOW! Very nice for $15. Nice throw! I'm happy!


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## SuperTrouper (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks for the tests Probedude, some very interesting findings there.

I guess this shows that we'll see significantly longer runtimes on the 3Ds. Glad I've gone with the 3Ds when I bought my rebel lights!


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## Phaserburn (Nov 29, 2009)

From the 2D current draws vs the lux version, these lights have differerent circuits. There is no way that the rebel can pull 1.6A for anywhere even in the same ballpark as the 20 hrs or whatever that a lux version runs.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 29, 2009)

I agree. It is very unlikely that a Rebel Mag will produce light as long as a Lux will.

However my P7 Mag with 8 level driver is the best of both worlds!


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## PCC (Nov 29, 2009)

Yes, very good work there, Probedude! I just have a simple multimeter so all I can do is swap batteries (for a different voltage level) and do a tailcap test. That info is eye opening!

I took my Rebel MagLED completely apart yesterday and compared it to my previous generation MagLite with MagLED drop-in module. It's interesting to note that the head is the same on this new one as it is on my old one but the main tube is different. The threads don't go down as far and the O-ring sits closer to the end of the tube. When you screw the head down all the way the top of the tube is not flush with the collar inside of the head like on the older one. It sits about a quarter inch lower, presumably for more clearance for the deeper reflector. Yes, the entire light is about a quarter inch longer than the incan one. The tailcap and head are identical and I can swap between them if I want to. The switches are, obviously, not the same but the switch assembly is almost identical, the difference being a small projection on one side of the button side of the switch so that the switch itself cannot be mounted upside-down. Also, the switch assembly isn't as long meaning that the batteries sit about an eighth of an inch closer to the bezel on Rebel MagLEDs compared to the older Mags. I plan on taking comparison pictures of these as well as my '80s MagLite but I left my camera at my brother's house over Thanksgiving so it will have to wait.


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## Probedude (Nov 29, 2009)

PCC said:


> I took my Rebel MagLED completely apart yesterday and compared it to my previous generation MagLite with MagLED drop-in module.


Thank you for the disassembly photos in your other thread!


----------



## Mr.Penny (Nov 29, 2009)

Does the D cell Rebel Maglite's suffer from overheating like the previous generation?


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## Woods Walker (Nov 29, 2009)

Found a pack of 4 D cell batteries in the house. Tossed them in the 3D Rebel Mag I got from Lowes. Like the funky gray color of the light. Anyways wow it throws crazy far and is bright. I wonder what the lumens are but must be over 100. Best 14.99 I spent in a long time. The little 2XAA is nice too. I don't trust the batteries as they are Heavy duty and expired in 08 :shakehead. But will hold off for a sale on these before replacement.


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## RAGE CAGE (Nov 29, 2009)

Picked up 3D and 2D at Lowes- $14.97 each.....
magnifying glass to Rebel indicates -091 on the 3D cell...
really pleased/suprised with the throw on it...need to open the 2D...or maybe exchange it for another 3D cell model...think the sale ends on 11.30.09....


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## PCC (Nov 29, 2009)

Probedude said:


> Thank you for the disassembly photos in your other thread!


That wasn't me.


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## adirondackdestroyer (Nov 30, 2009)

Woods Walker said:


> Anyways wow it throws crazy far and is bright. I wonder what the lumens are but must be over 100. Best 14.99 I spent in a long time. The little 2XAA is nice too.



Couldn't agree more! I tested mine out yesterday at it has over 17,000 lux at 1m! I tested the overall lumens as well, but forget exactly what they were. It was over 120 out the front though.


----------



## JamisonM (Nov 30, 2009)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> Couldn't agree more! I tested mine out yesterday at it has over 17,000 lux at 1m! I tested the overall lumens as well, but forget exactly what they were. It was over 120 out the front though.


If you don't mind, test it again, but leave it one for about 30 minutes and then take measurments. This will let us see if they have the same problem that the luxeon III maglites had.


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## tab665 (Nov 30, 2009)

went out and got a 3D mag yesterday.makes my terralux dropin on my older mag pointless. easily out throws my M20.


----------



## asdalton (Nov 30, 2009)

JamisonM said:


> If you don't mind, test it again, but leave it one for about 30 minutes and then take measurments. This will let us see if they have the same problem that the luxeon III maglites had.



I have done this with my 2D Rebel Mag. It does get dimmer, but it still ends up brighter than the old Luxeon version running fresh.

The good news is that if the Rebel circuit works like the Luxeon circuit, then it is reducing the current and extending the battery life beyond what you would expect from the initial output. But someone will have to make a runtime graph for the Rebel version before we can compare the overall performance to the Luxeon version.


----------



## ltiu (Nov 30, 2009)

Probedude said:


> Found my D cell adapters that take an AA battery (came with my Eneloops) but using them in the Maglite is a problem as the spring on the Maglite fits around the AA cell and doesn't contact the end.
> 
> Realized I could just drop in a fender washer to make a wider base for the spring to press on. Fits in the bore great so it's centered and works great.



I had the same problem, solved it with a Canadian quarter coin. Canadian quarters have real nickel in them. Way more conductive, I think.


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## sabre7 (Nov 30, 2009)

ltiu said:


> I had the same problem, solved it with a Canadian quarter coin. Canadian quarters have real nickel in them. Way more conductive, I think.



Same problem here, its hard to describe but just use pliers to squeeze the smallest/end coil on spring inward to where it comes halfway across. The end contact on the spring is then in the middle of the coil, kind of oval shaped, smaller, and slightly raised- the end of the spring will then make contact with the neg end of the adapter. It works great with the adapter or with regular batteries. :thumbsup:


----------



## Toohotruk (Dec 1, 2009)

Jam a penny in the last coil...works pretty well for me. Any guess for runtime with the 2D with a pair of Duraloops?


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## JamisonM (Dec 1, 2009)

sabre7 said:


> Same problem here, its hard to describe but just use pliers to squeeze the smallest/end coil on spring inward to where it comes halfway across. The end contact on the spring is then in the middle of the coil, kind of oval shaped, smaller, and slightly raised- the end of the spring will then make contact with the neg end of the adapter. It works great with the adapter or with regular batteries. :thumbsup:


Yep, that does the trick and works great. The only thing you have to watch out for is the pressure the spring puts on the batteries. The spring is notoriously stiff and know for putting dents in rechargeables.

Here's a picture of how a maglite's tail cap spring looks like before the mod.






Here's what it looks like after the mod.


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## sabre7 (Dec 1, 2009)

JamisonM said:


> Yep, that does the trick and works great. The only thing you have to watch out for is the pressure the spring puts on the batteries. The spring is notoriously stiff and know for putting dents in rechargeables.
> 
> Here's a picture of how a maglite's tail cap spring looks like before the mod.
> 
> ...



Bingo!! Thank you for the photos, they show exactly what I was trying to describe.


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## haul_n_horses2 (Dec 1, 2009)

I purchased two 2D Maglites for use in the barn but after reading the enthusiasm for the 3D, I went out and bought one of the last remaining lights last night for the truck. It has the Rebel 091 emitter but the alignment with the reflector is awful and even with the best focus the hot spot is a large oval rather than a circle. The 2D maglites were very tight circles. I may have just got a bad one but is there any recourse with this. I have read where you can rotate the pill/emitter or reflector to try and find the sweet spot with this eccentricity is minimized. Any suggestions?


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## cccpull (Dec 1, 2009)

haul_n_horses2 said:


> I purchased two 2D Maglites for use in the barn but after reading the enthusiasm for the 3D, I went out and bought one of the last remaining lights last night for the truck. It has the Rebel 091 emitter but the alignment with the reflector is awful and even with the best focus the hot spot is a large oval rather than a circle. The 2D maglites were very tight circles. I may have just got a bad one but is there any recourse with this. I have read where you can rotate the pill/emitter or reflector to try and find the sweet spot with this eccentricity is minimized. Any suggestions?



Just go back and exchange it.

BTW was there any appreciable difference in output between the 2D and 3D?


----------



## lumenal (Dec 1, 2009)

cccpull;3181561
BTW was there any appreciable difference in output between the 2D and 3D?[/QUOTE said:


> I bought both the 2D and two 3D Rebels.
> 
> At least in my case, both 3Ds are noticeably brighter than the 2D.
> 
> The 2D has a warmer tint, while the 3Ds are lightly lavender tinted.


----------



## Zerog024 (Dec 2, 2009)

So, I did posted that I put a AA 4 mode rebel in a 3 d-cell body, It does not work for more then ten mintues. I think the led was getting too hot.


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## streetkid (Dec 3, 2009)

Whats the best rechargable solution for the 3D rebel? Runtime isn't too important for me, I just don't want to have to wait for these D's to die before I can put in fresh cells. I want to beable to top of the cells every night/everytime I go somewhere and have it the brightest it can be.

I'm in love with this light


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## Robin24k (Dec 3, 2009)

Energizer's 2500mAh NiMH rechargeables have worked well for me.


----------



## tnforever (Dec 3, 2009)

streetkid said:


> Whats the best rechargable solution for the 3D rebel? Runtime isn't too important for me, I just don't want to have to wait for these D's to die before I can put in fresh cells. I want to beable to top of the cells every night/everytime I go somewhere and have it the brightest it can be.
> 
> I'm in love with this light



If runtime isn't important, then just use a couple of NiMH AAs (normal ones if you use them every day, LSD ones otherwise) and a couple adapters.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 3, 2009)

If you do use AA you'll need a spacer for the difference in 3D against 3C or AA.

I like a stove bolt with a washer/nut - nut/washer/nut so I don't get rattle or the spacer gets knocked crooked.

The end of the stove bolt/nut generally goes up into the spring a bit and the washer takes the brunt of the spring.


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## Phaserburn (Dec 5, 2009)

I use nimh D 10Ah cells; 6 hrs full power runtime/chg. I use Alks for emergencies and loaner situations.

I think Maglite made a marketing decision that went something like this: Nobody is buying out flashlights historically because of super long runtime; they look at Mag for a bright light that throws. When the Magled Lux version came out, yes, it was brighter than the incan Mag, but got left behind by other led lights in those two sales related benefits. So, they went back to the drawing board and changed the circuit along with upgrading the led.


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## adirondackdestroyer (Dec 5, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> I think Maglite made a marketing decision that went something like this: Nobody is buying out flashlights historically because of super long runtime; they look at Mag for a bright light that throws. When the Magled Lux version came out, yes, it was brighter than the incan Mag, but got left behind by other led lights in those two sales related benefits. So, they went back to the drawing board and changed the circuit along with upgrading the led.



Except that they made no mention of these upgrades anywhere on the packaging. I think it would have helped sales quite a bit if they had mentioned an upgrade on the package. The old (luxeon) models would most likely still be purchased by people who don't know any better. 

I picked a 3D Rebel up during black friday and am VERY impressed! It crushes the old luxeon version!


----------



## PCC (Dec 5, 2009)

I have to admit that I'm quite disappointed with my 2D Rebel MagLED. It draws too much power for the light output I'm getting or it doesn't out out as much light as the amp draw at the tailcap promises. Other than that I'm not complaining. No, I will not trade it in for a 3D as I don't like the odd number of cells and I don't like the extra length.


----------



## cccpull (Dec 5, 2009)

PCC said:


> I have to admit that I'm quite disappointed with my 2D Rebel MagLED. It draws too much power for the light output I'm getting or it doesn't out out as much light as the amp draw at the tailcap promises. Other than that I'm not complaining. No, I will not trade it in for a 3D as I don't like the odd number of cells and I don't like the extra length.



:thinking: From "quite disappointed' to "I'm not complaining'', is quite a stretch.

I also got a 2D Rebel because I couldn't find the 3D at Lowes, but I'm quite content with the output (especially throw) of this light at $15, good deal.
I do actually prefer the 2D size, although I'll probably end up getting a 3D at Costco.


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## Turn Key (Dec 5, 2009)

I bought the 2d led maglite at lowes on black friday because I was looking for the run time. I didnot know it was a rebel until i read about them on cpf. It was a few days before i could play with it. All I can say is WOW! I dont know much about lights and am just getting back into to them, but I couldnt believe this light.


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## vmaldia (Dec 7, 2009)

Hi,

I'm just a newbie. Here's a personal review of my new maglite 2aa led second gen on my blog.

http://magos-biologis.blogspot.com/2009/12/review-of-second-generation-led-maglite.html


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## Robin24k (Dec 7, 2009)

Great review! 

I'm jealous of the plastic boxes...most Mags found in retail stores come in blister packs, which can't be used to store the flashlight.


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## Jida (Dec 7, 2009)

Been playing with the lights (2aa and 3d) for a week now.

The 2aa is winning me over. At first I compared it to my D10. This was not really fair as the D10 is a quality light at 4x the cost (easily).

Over the weekend I put in some flooring at the house and ended up using the 2aa quite a bit.

The light is clean, pure and throws quite well.

The 100% and 25% are of 'equal use' to me. The 100% however does throw pretty well, has a decent spill and is very tough.

Went by my parent's house over the weekend and brought both lights. The same trees that I lit up as a kid are still there. With my mental picture in tow I turned on the 3d and was impressed.

Once again, pure white light and nice hotspot.

There are now 3 of the sets sitting in the front of my house as the 'go to' lights if something happens.

With their ease of use, brightness, toughness and otherwise I think that Mag finally found a way to move into the right decade.


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## fa__ (Dec 7, 2009)

Would anyone know a website selling 2D 3D & 2AA rebel maglite, and able to ship theim to France ?
Thanks :naughty:


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm willing to bet someone will come along and help you out. I'd do it except for the fact I'm out of work and can't afford to pay attention!


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## slappomatt (Dec 7, 2009)

whats the deal with the bins marked on the LED? people have been talking about 050, 060 and 091. mine is marked .001


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## Robin24k (Dec 7, 2009)

Are you sure they are really from different bins? One of mine says "030", but I'm betting it was a problem with the printing because my other one says 090. Remember than 090 = 060 upside down, and 050 could also be a 060 with a portion of the number missing, like on mine.


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## Robin24k (Dec 7, 2009)

fa__ said:


> Would anyone know a website selling 2D 3D & 2AA rebel maglite, and able to ship theim to France ?
> Thanks :naughty:


Try https://www.amazon.fr/?tag=


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## fa__ (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks, but I had already checked amazon and I can't find D models at the moment :thinking:


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## Robin24k (Dec 7, 2009)

There's not a lot, but there are definately some.

Try searching "Maglite 2D LED" and "Maglite 3D LED".


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## fa__ (Dec 8, 2009)

Ok, I'll double check 
Thanks again :thumbsup:
(and I hope prices wont't be "in the French range" for those maglite (a regular incandescent 4D is around $70 in shops here :duh2: )


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## Robin24k (Dec 8, 2009)

You're welcome. The prices are higher than in the US, but not like $70. More like $50, which is still pretty high for a Mag, not including shipping...


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## Robin24k (Dec 17, 2009)

Just a little heads-up for anybody looking to get a 2AA...they're on sale at Home Depot for $9.88. 

Picked up another grey 2AA today.


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## Rick Condon (Dec 17, 2009)

I saw the Lowes flyer today and the Maglite 2D LED flashlights were $17.49, or 50% off (3D were $19.99). I live in Ontario, Canada, btw, so that's about $16 US. Good deal. I checked the emitter and it looks like -090. The sale is good from Dec. 17 till Dec. 27. Lowes is far from me, but Home Depot is just up the street. I took in the flyer and they price matched. Looking forward to testing this thing out.

Rick


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## Robin24k (Dec 17, 2009)

I wonder if Home Depot Canada also has the 2AA sale? $9.88 is the BEST price I have ever seen...definately is a steal.

Have fun with the 2D! If I had a choice, I would've taken the 2D, but the Costco pack that I got was only in 2AA and 3D. Supposedly the 3D is a bit brighter, and hey, it's a nice bat!


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## elumen8 (Dec 18, 2009)

Robin24k said:


> Just a little heads-up for anybody looking to get a 2AA...they're on sale at Home Depot for $9.88.


 
Thanks Robin24k for the tip. I ran down to pick up three more 2AA for stocking stuffers.

On another note, someone mentioned switching the multi-mode 2AA pill with the 2D pill. I kinda like the idea of the multi-mode in the 2D. Does anyone know how large the difference in brightness between the two are, seeing as they both use the Rebel -090?

-JB

PS...I emailed maglite customer service about a leaky battery issue and among other things in their reply they said " We plan releasing both 2 and 3 cell C LED flashlights in the near future. You may start looking for our new product in all the local retail stores in late January or early February, 2010". I can't wait... I love the C cell form factor.


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## Robin24k (Dec 18, 2009)

Just curious, which Home Depot did you go to? Hopefully you didn't go the one in 95129...a store employee (after being asked about having more stock by me and becoming away of the deal) and I took the last two good ones (with lanyard hole tailcap). There were four black ones without the lanyard hole left. Those are known for having some reliability issues.


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## elumen8 (Dec 18, 2009)

Robin24k said:


> Just curious, which Home Depot did you go to? Hopefully you didn't go the one in 95129...a store employee (after being asked about having more stock by me and becoming away of the deal) and I took the last two good ones (with lanyard hole tailcap). There were four black ones without the lanyard hole left. Those are known for having some reliability issues.


 
I went to the HD at the new Plant shopping center at Curtner and Monterey. I almost went to that HD that you went to on Capitol. The employees at the location I was at didn't know anything about the saleprice, but it rung right upon the register. I got the last three grey with the lanyard holes. I have red, blue, silver, grey and black first version 2AA Rebels without the lanyard holes that haven't shown any reliabilty issues.

JB


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## Swordforthelord (Dec 18, 2009)

Robin24k said:


> Just curious, which Home Depot did you go to? Hopefully you didn't go the one in 95129...a store employee (after being asked about having more stock by me and becoming away of the deal) and I took the last two good ones (with lanyard hole tailcap). There were four black ones without the lanyard hole left. Those are known for having some reliability issues.



There's been 3 versions without the lanyard holes. The very first version was the single mode Lux III and it definitely had issues. Then I believe they released a modified version to correct this. Next they released the Multi Mode Rebel and finally they released the Rebel with the lanyard hole. 3 out of 4 of these did not have the lanyard hole but only the very first had problems.


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## Rick Condon (Dec 18, 2009)

Okay, I've checked out the new Maglite 2D Rebel I picked up yesterday. Here's my 2 cents.

Pros
1 - Good for defense. Even though it isn't a 3D/4D bat, it's still solid enough to be a good attitude adjuster.
2 - LOTS of throw. You could probably reach the moon with this light sabre.
3 - Price. $17.49 is fair (50% off)
4 - Quality. No jagged metal edges. Good finish with no nicks.

Cons
1 - Lens was dusty as Hell. I guess Mag never heard of a clean room before.
2 - Too much throw for me. Some more spill would have been nice.
3 - Rings. Makes me sick to look at them. Still way better than the rings on my Mag 3C incan, but I think I'm just spoiled now from seeing better flashlights with no rings. Rings are simply an eyesore.
4 - The tail cap spring wasn't even attached. None in the store were. I could hear them rattling around. WTF is that? Were they in that much of a hurry to get them out the door?

My conclusion is that Mag is stepping up their game but they still have a way to go before they get my money. Back to the store it goes. Oh well.


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## Robin24k (Dec 18, 2009)

Rick Condon said:


> 4 - The tail cap spring wasn't even attached. None in the store were. I could hear them rattling around. WTF is that? Were they in that much of a hurry to get them out the door?


Mine came like that too. At the store, some were attached and some weren't. My best guess is shipping/handling dislodged them as they don't have any pressure on them to hold them in.


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## Benson (Dec 18, 2009)

Swordforthelord said:


> There's been 3 versions without the lanyard holes. The very first version was the single mode Lux III and it definitely had issues. Then I believe they released a modified version to correct this. Next they released the Multi Mode Rebel and finally they released the Rebel with the lanyard hole. 3 out of 4 of these did not have the lanyard hole but only the very first had problems.



I've _also_ heard claims of reliability issues, seeming to be weak/intermittent contact somewhere, from early 2xAA Rebels, but it's not clear that this correlates 100% with the tailcap change. And I had a 2xAA Rebel from an early batch and had no trouble during the ~3 days I had it assembled. But the parts went into two lights, and the tailcap is not used in either of them, so no long-term experience.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 18, 2009)

I had an early 3AA LUX light get screwed up but the head/reflector tames a Cree pretty well.

I have the 3AA Body around here somewhere. Maybe eget it cut down to 1AA and run a strion bulb on a 14500 or such.....


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## PCC (Dec 18, 2009)

elumen8 said:


> On another note, someone mentioned switching the multi-mode 2AA pill with the 2D pill. I kinda like the idea of the multi-mode in the 2D. Does anyone know how large the difference in brightness between the two are, seeing as they both use the Rebel -090?


The 2D Rebel MagLED pulls 1600mA from the batteries. The 2AA Mini-MagLED pulls 350mA. I just swapped the pills on my 2D and 2AA and the end results are very interesting. The 2D will now be a super long runtime light (2 D cells at 350mA on high or 80mA on low!) while the 2AA is nice and bright, now. I paired the higher amp draw pill with a Nite-Ize IQ tailcap switch and I now have a 5-mode Mini-MagLED. The MMLED is the newer one with the lanyard hole in the tailcap, not the one without the lanyard hole. Those use a different tailcap design that does not allow the use of incan MM tailcaps. If you get one of those you will need to have the battery tube modified, like I did at Modamag's house a few weeks ago, to get it to work.

Comparing the two lights now that I've swapped pills is an interesting study in reflector size and what it will do to the light output. The big 2D with its large reflector has a very nice, bright hotspot but the spill is not all that bright compared to what it was putting out with its original pill. The MMLED with the 2D pill has a hotspot that is not as bright as the 2D with MMLED pill but the spill is way brighter. Keep in mind that this combo is pulling 1600mA. This is my new helmet light for commuting by bicycle! Even dimmed down to low it produces a lot of light, a bit more than a stock Rebel MMLED does.


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## elumen8 (Dec 19, 2009)

PCC said:


> The 2D Rebel MagLED pulls 1600mA from the batteries. The 2AA Mini-MagLED pulls 350mA.
> 
> Comparing the two lights now that I've swapped pills is an interesting study in reflector size and what it will do to the light output. The big 2D with its large reflector has a very nice, bright hotspot but the spill is not all that bright compared to what it was putting out with its original pill. The MMLED with the 2D pill has a hotspot that is not as bright as the 2D with MMLED pill but the spill is way brighter.


 
Thanks PCC, that's exactly the info I was looking for. I'm gonna give the swap a try just for fun.

Did you have any trouble installing the pills in the other hosts?

JB


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## PCC (Dec 19, 2009)

Do you mean swapping between the two Rebel lights or in other flashlight hosts altogether?

The Rebel pills are identical from the outside so don't mix them up. They're marked but not in a logical way.

Just a correction: I just measured the current draw at the tailcap and the 2D with AA module pulls 450mA on high and 105mA on low. The MMLED with 2D module pulls 1600mA but with the Nite-Ize IQ now draws 1425mA on high, 750mA on medium, and 355mA on low. I can live with that. Now if only they didn't have that auto-shutoff feature after 15 minutes...


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## Russ T. Nutt (Dec 19, 2009)

I'm sorry if this has already been posted. Where can I find the model #s for the various LED Maglites - AA & D cell. I can order Mag where I work, but they don't have a very good catalog - mostly listed just by model #. I want to be sure I am getting the Rebel lights, not the Lux III models.

Secondly, to members from th SE OHIO/WV area, What is a fair price for Mag LED lights in this area? I was at Wally World in Cambridge,OH last night, & they only had 1 2D LED Mag. I think it was the Rebel - didn't see anything on the packaging about bulb replacement. It was about $34.00, if I remember correctly. High, low, or about right? 

TIA
Scott


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## Robin24k (Dec 19, 2009)

You can't tell what LED it has from the model number. However, if they supplier is selling them at a decent rate, you shouldn't be getting old models. If you need model numbers, check out Mag's order form:

http://maglite.com/pdf/RetailOrderForm.pdf

Regular price for Mags are pretty high. Costco has the 2AA/3D LED two-pack for $24.99, and that is a VERY good price. The same with Home Depot's 2AA LED for $9.88.

$34 is about right for regular price, but I wouldn't spring on it for that amount of money.


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## elumen8 (Dec 19, 2009)

PCC said:


> Do you mean swapping between the two Rebel lights or in other flashlight hosts altogether?
> 
> The Rebel pills are identical from the outside so don't mix them up. They're marked but not in a logical way.


 
Swapping between the two lights.

How did you remove the 2D pill. I'm having a heck of a time removing it from its housing. 

The 2AA pill pops out fairly easily.

Thanks,
JB

edit: I was able to remove the 2D pill...I was just scared of breaking something. Its a fairly robust pill.


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## PCC (Dec 19, 2009)

Good to hear that you got it apart. If you go to REI you can find the Nite-Ize IQ switch for $3.10 after tax! They're on sale or clearance right now. I cannot find them on their website anymore when they're normally $8 before tax. I bought two!


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## Robin24k (Dec 19, 2009)

I've got a spare IQ switch that I'm not using if anybody is interested. It doesn't work with the stock 2AA, and I'm not using it in my incan 2AA anymore, so I might as well let it go!


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## vestureofblood (Dec 21, 2009)

Have any of you guys got one of these lights with no serial numbers? Mine is just blank no D or ##s or Pat. pend etc.


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## Robin24k (Dec 21, 2009)

That doesn't seem normal...maybe your slipped by the engraving machine...


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## Toohotruk (Dec 21, 2009)

vestureofblood said:


> Have any of you guys got one of these lights with no serial numbers? Mine is just blank no D or ##s or Pat. pend etc.




Sounds like it may be a rarity...post a couple of pics HERE.


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## Burgess (Dec 22, 2009)

Very interesting !


Reminds me of a sheet of U.S. Postage Stamps, i spotted at a Garage Sale, years ago . . . .


old Air Mail stamps, they were -- only (get this) it had the damn airplane flying Upside-Down ! ! !




Glad to say that i didn't fall for that defective junk.


Nope.


Left 'em right there for some *other* unsuspecting doofus. 


Nobody's gonna' play *me* for a sucker. 


No sirrreee. 
_


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## Toohotruk (Dec 23, 2009)




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## shilent (Jan 6, 2010)

I just purchased the 3D/2AA pack at Costco today, are these new Maglites regulated for constant output? I couldn't find an answer searching both here and google.


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## Robin24k (Jan 6, 2010)

Yes, they are regulated. I'm sure if you look around you can find runtime charts and whatnot that will show how it's regulated.


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## cmendoza (Jan 7, 2010)

How do you pop the bulb out of the MagLED 2AA? Do you push down from top or up through the battery tube? Will I then be able to use the LED bulb in a Mag 2C?

Thanks for your help!


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## Robin24k (Jan 7, 2010)

You won't be able to use it in a 2C without some modifications to the switch assembly. The LED module is only direct swappable between the AA and D LED models.


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## cmendoza (Jan 7, 2010)

Good to know! How do you get the module out of the 2AA?


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## Robin24k (Jan 7, 2010)

I haven't done it myself, but someone explained to me how to do it. It was pretty much just press down on the silver edges of the module (make sure to not put pressure on the emitter) and it should seperate from the black ring and fall out the bottom.


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## cmendoza (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanks!


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## Phaserburn (Jan 8, 2010)

Robin24k said:


> Yes, they are regulated. I'm sure if you look around you can find runtime charts and whatnot that will show how it's regulated.


 
Best of my knowledge, no one has done a runtime graph on a Rebel D cell mag yet. It will NOT have the same runtime chart as the previous luxeon version.

Having said that, I'd love to see a chart myself.


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## SuperTrouper (Jan 8, 2010)

Phaserburn said:


> Best of my knowledge, no one has done a runtime graph on a Rebel D cell mag yet. It will NOT have the same runtime chart as the previous luxeon version.
> 
> Having said that, I'd love to see a chart myself.



That's one I'd love to see too!


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## jabe1 (Jan 13, 2010)

I spoke to Mag customer service today. The ML100 (2C) and XL100 (3AAA) should be shipping by the last week of January.


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## Swordforthelord (Jan 13, 2010)

jabe1 said:


> I spoke to Mag customer service today. The ML100 (2C) and XL100 (3AAA) should be shipping by the last week of January.


 

We shall see. I certainly hope that's the case.


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## copperfox (Jan 14, 2010)

Mag was going to have a LED solitaire available for Christmas 09, but that clearly didn't happen. Anybody know when it is coming?


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## frasera (Jun 17, 2010)

Probedude said:


> On sale at Lowes, 2D for just a tick under $15.
> The 2-AA is $10.97
> 
> Dave



9.97 at lowes if there are any left now.
got mine last night.
damn shame they split off the hot deals forum from the rest, its too much trouble for most to bother with.


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## PCC (Jun 17, 2010)

For a recent SFBA CPF GTG I put the 2D Rebel MagLED back to its original state and brought that, along with my older 2D MagLED that I modified with an XP-G R4. Bigchelis was there with his integrating sphere so I decided to see what these two lights put out. Keep in mind that there is some debate about BC's sphere not doing well with throwers (my Surefire 9N with TLS TX-3 head with Thrunight 1.5A XP-G R5 head only gave 260 lumens). The 2D Rebel returned a respectable 100 lumens on 2 used alkalines. Yeah, I messed up and thought that I had NiMH cells in there while the alkalines have 1.4V in each of the cells without load and it still draws about 1660mA. The question I have, looking at these results, is, how (in)efficient is the driver in this thing? I mean, at about 2.4V under load, it draws 1660mA but how hard does it drive the LED? The Rebel 90 is supposed to put out 90 lumens per watt, right? To get 100 lumens OTF means that it's probably putting out, what, 135 lumens at the emitter? That's 1.5 watts, if I'm not mistaken. 1660mA at 2.4V is a lot more than 1.5 watts, right? Electronics is not my strong point so please correct any mistakes in my reasoning.

The older MagLED with XP-G put out 150 lumens at 860mA on NiMH when cold and we didn't run it long enough to see how low it gets from the module heating up. Both lights have the stock plastic reflectors in them (no OP spray). The Rebel has an acrylic lens (95% transmittance value) while the older LED has a camera UV lens (I'm guessing about the same transmittance value).


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