# Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2021



## ChibiM

*Eneloop overview 2005-2021*

In February 2017 I started building a website about * eneloop * batteries called eneloop101.com to get all the information about eneloop batteries , an eneloop charger list and in 1 spot. There is lots of information including pdf product sheets, pdf eneloop catalogs, complete line-up of Japanese made Sanyo and Panasonic eneloops, Chinese eneloops, and all the limited editions. 

If you want to know where to buy your eneloops, have a look at my *Where to buy* eneloops page: https://eneloop101.com/where-to-buy/

You can also visit the facebook page: facebook.com/eneloop101/ for questions, discussions, deals and giveaways

*Overview of all Eneloop Batteries:*

Eneloop batteries overview PDF 2005-2020
*

Eneloop Limited Edition Overview*

eneloop limited editions overview PDF 2009-2020


Arguably: The best rechargeable batteries

*Useful Threads:*


The history of Eneloop technology by _Rosoku Chikara_: Link to thread at CPF
Japanese vs Chinese Eneloop 4th gen cycle testing by _Power Me Up_: Link to thread at CPF
Test/Reviews of Eneloops by _HKJ_: Links to:


3rd gen AA standard
4th gen AA standard
3rd gen AA PRO(XX)
4th gen AA PRO(XX)
4th gen AAA PRO(XX)
4th gen AAA PRO(XX)




*What are the recommended chargers for eneloop? *discussions and info thread about chargers for eneloops


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

*Detailed info on all models and versions of eneloops.*































































2015/5 eneloop America show new packaging for 10year shelflife: http://shop.panasonic.com/about-us-.../05132015-eneloop-rechargeable-batteries.html


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## Knight_Light

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I think a lot of people here have seen parts or all of this information at one point or another but it is really nice to have in one place. Thank You.


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

*If you are looking for "made in Japan" eneloop batteries, from Japan. *
*I sell all kinds of eneloop batteries at CPFM* . (sales stopped)

I live in Tokyo, Japan, and ship them worldwide
*Eneloops: *

Standard 
Lite 
Plus 
Pro 
limited editions 
chargers 
 
Here the official announcement from a few months ago, that they were going to rebrand their eneloops.. 
From April 26 to be precise


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## rbid1962

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Many thanks for the precise explanation.
I'm now looking for Eneloop batteries in e-bay because in order to get them here in this country I need to get a loan from the bank, they sell them about 200% more expensive than in the internet..
My problem with e-bay is that it is easy to get the fake ones.. and until you get them you can't know that.
Do you know a e-bay dealer that sells the genuine ones? (you can PM if you don't want to expose the answer)
Have a nice day.

--- Ricky Marek


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

*Update January 2015: Chinese vs Japanese eneloops*C

Not all batteries currently on the market are made in Japan.. 
some are made in China... beware, that some testing have shown that AA eneloop standard , made in China, are inferior to their siblings made in Japan. 

Take note that this is at least for the time being.. the Chinese eneloops may gain quality over time. 



1 easy way to tell the difference is that the Chinese made cells show a 65% capacity after 5 years.

*HERE AN EXAMPLE*
First picture is a pack that is made in China.. you can see 65%




and at the backside of the Chinese made eneloops.. 
the circled part shows that they are made in China... (hard to understand without knowing Chinese characters) but the easy part is the 65% text





The next pack is made in Japan.. you can see 70%





Although the text *COLORS* is spelled without the *U* on the "Japanese made" package, that doesnt mean that all of them with that text are made in Japan... thats just a small difference. But not the main difference.


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## __philippe

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



rbid1962 said:


> ..My problem with e-bay is that it is easy to get the fake ones.. and until you get them you can't know that.
> Do you know a e-bay dealer that sells the genuine ones? (you can PM if you don't want to expose the answer)
> --- Ricky Marek



Check you PM box for a trustworthy Eneloop source way safer than eBay.

__philippe


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## Rosoku Chikara

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Edit: Voluntarily removed my post as "off topic." Please see my new thread.


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## rbid1962

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I'm from the Galilee in Israel 

Local shops (related to photography) sell the XX for ~50 US$, the Standard ones are around 25US$.

The official dealers do not sell the XX


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## Knight_Light

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



Rosoku Chikara said:


> For example, I do *not* see the 500 cycle "limitation" of the Pro series as any kind of real limitation at all. It no doubt depends on your particular application, but in my case, I am almost never going to fully discharge my batteries within one week. That means that, given a 500 cycle "life," the Black Eneloop Pro batteries that I have recently purchased will last me for ten years! (Frankly, I do have all that much confidence that will even be alive by then!)
> 
> And,_ Don't be "fooled" by the numbers._ How may cycles are you going realistically ever use?


 If you want to talk realistic real-world use you shouldn't quote manufacturer claimed cycle life figures. Those are under ideal situations. You should cut that figure in half at the very least.


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## Rosoku Chikara

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

An Aside: 

I want to apologize to those who have already posted replies, but I happen to live in the mountains, where we have relatively poor internet access, at least when it comes to USA-based servers. So, I have found that the best way for me to successfully post on this forum, is for me to post a "Quick Reply" and then further edit that post "as I go." 

(Otherwise, I run the very real risk "losing the whole thing" after I have typed it.)

Therefore, some of your comments above may have been written before I had finished my intended post.

I must apologize for that.


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## Rosoku Chikara

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Edit: Voluntarily removed my post as "off topic." Please see my new thread.


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## Vortus

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

ChibiM, that's a great piece of info to have there. Thanks!


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## mactavish

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Thank you for all you work in creating that database, would be nice as an excel spreadsheet share? I just bought 16 AA & 12 AAA, all new 3rd generation eneloops. I had read about the Panasonic rebranding, and increased cycles, but at 1800 advertised cycles, I was not about to wait. The 3rd generations are readily available on Amazon, but the only offerings for the 4th gens, were imports, this last week when I did my shopping. Nice job!


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

If you guys want to buy a few 4th generation AA eneloops, I have a few for sale on CPFM.


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## N8N

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Does anyone have any idea if Amazon, Thomas, etc. are going to get the C and D cells whenever Panasonic decides to let the rest of the world have the 4th gen? And have there been any tests/verification of capacity on them yet?


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## Rosoku Chikara

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I seem to recall seeing a photo of an Eneloop D cell that had been opened, and it was found to contain 3 x AA cells.

(I believe you can find that photo somewhere on CPF. I have no idea about their C cells.)


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## N8N

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

You're right, somehow I missed this.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?287461-Eneloop-C-amp-D-Cells-Exposed

Wonder why if they were going that route they didn't just sell separate holders for the cells? I would pay for good AA to D or AAA to C holders were such available... but it seems that at least for D size all you can get is two AA to a D unless you make your own. Would be way more flexible than the arrangement shown in those pics.


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Eneloop XX are sold with different numbers in different countries.. which might cause confusion....at least it confused me.

These are all *HR-3UWXB*, 2nd generation XX/PRO but with different packages.. 1 with Typ. mAh rating, others with Minimal mAh rating.













Above left is the Chinese version, and right is the English version
and below is the Japanese version.


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## Rosoku Chikara

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

All I see these days are the Panasonic Eneloop Pros...






The Sanyo Eneloop Pros appear to be all sold out.

Edit: I missed the point of your post. After your explanation below, I now I understand that you wanted to show the different packaging for the same battery, not the latest packaging. Sorry.


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I know, i just showed the 2nd gen. XX .. with the different numbers.
When I first saw 2550mAh, I was shocked because I thought they were fakes. Because since a while eneloop only showed Min.mAh, but China still shows the typ.mAh.
So it will help when people come to this thread asking about eneloops with 2550mAh, that they know they are the same.

China also called the first generation XX, HR-3UWXA, while everywhere else they don't have an A at the end, just UWX.
edit: it seems that these were also selling in the US (June 2015)


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## ChrisGarrett

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I just got two 8 packs of Glitters, each pack dated 09/12 off of WOOT.com for $37 shipped, with two cheap dumb chargers, one per pack.

They look neat. I haven't opened them yet, to check the date codes on each battery, but I basically got two sets for the price of one, going by what the Glitters are selling for on Ebay.

Chris


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## krisvm

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Hey Guys,
I need approximately 40AA and 10AAA rechargeable batteries, would like latest gen, good quality rechargeables, a charger and a multimeter.
Suggestions and where to buy please?
Cheers,
kris


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## ChrisGarrett

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



krisvm said:


> Hey Guys,
> I need approximately 40AA and 10AAA rechargeable batteries, would like latest gen, good quality rechargeables, a charger and a multimeter.
> Suggestions and where to buy please?
> Cheers,
> kris



Where do you live, bra?

If you're in the States, Target is blowing out their Duracell branded 'white top' Gen II Duraloops for $3.65 pack of 4 AA, or AAA, before tax. These are Gen II Eneloops, FWIW.

Get a boatload of them before they're all gone and pick up a Maha C9000 with all the money you just saved.

You're welcome.

Chris


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## krisvm

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Sounds like a great deal but I am in Australia - we get hammered here on value. Maha c9000 looks great. Better than Lacrosse BC 1000 hey? Best deal I can find at the moment is Sanyo XX AA for $AU 20 per a 4 pack delivered.


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

A few new batteries announced, and an 8-pack of Eneloop Pro announced... (first time in eneloop history  )
Available from November 29th. Only available in Japan... 

Eneloop Glamour: 4 and 8 packs. For the gals among us  







Eneloop PRO 8 pack:


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## kosPap

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Chibi, do you consider adding info on the Duraloops?


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## SaraAB87

*Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

The glamour ones look absolutely gorgeous but I am very satisfied with my regular glitter eneloops. Several friends and relatives have remarked how cool they look without me asking, just when I had to get batteries for a device. Only in Japan would they care about the colors of batteries that you don't see when using devices.... But I can get on the bandwagon with that! Haha

It would be nice if you could get a 4 pack of one color of your choice

We don't have colored batteries in the US the only ones I remember are those pink breast cancer energizer alkalines


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## Serenity

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

We need a flashlight made from transparent aluminium to show off all these cool looking Eneloops...


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

@kosPap, I`m sorry, there is not enough verified information about duraloops, and there is so much unknown information about them, that I don`t want to add them in the overview.. I keep it to real eneloops only for now.

So please don`t start going OFF topic about duraloops in this thread please! 

@SaraAB87: There are eneloop tones, and glitter tones available in the US! those are 2nd gen. eneloops... 
Once these newer eneloops will come available, I will probably buy a few packs and put them in my sales threads on CPFM . so keep an eye on there!

@Serenity: I`ve heard that before. And I understand. But at the same moment I still like special eneloops


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## nfetterly

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

THanks for putting this information together!


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## austinios

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Hope the rebranding from Sanyo to Panny doesn't bring about a drop in the quality of the Eneloops.


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## cbm

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I didn't even know there were C or D size eneloops. Are they still made?


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Yep, still made, and with new wrapper..
See the opening post


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## mactavish

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



cbm said:


> I didn't even know there were C or D size eneloops. Are they still made?



i assume the info in the thread link below has not changed:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?287461-Eneloop-C-amp-D-Cells-Exposed

"It's confirmed folks, the Eneloop C-cell is composed of 4 x AAA cells and the D-cell is composed of 3 x AA cells"

you can also buy the plastic spacers that hold the individual batteries.


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## davesc

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I use the plastic spacers. They do OK.


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## buba

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

How many of the various AAA and AA generations are still in production? I ask because I ordered some Std AA eneloops from amazon last month and received batteries labeled as HR-3UTGA (2nd gen) with a manufacture date of 13-06 (June 2013). At least the 2nd gen Std AA's were still being manufactured as of June of 2013 even though Gen 4's are in production.


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Good question..I would also like to know, the only assumption I have (we don't need to go into this unless somebody knows the real answer, is that some factories still produce the older, 2nd gen envelope, while at the same time at a different factory they are already producing the 4th generation.
Again, that's just what I assume, not a clear cut answer.. If somebody knows how this works please let us know, I'm not really looking for ideas, theories, dreams or whatever concerning this matter.


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

For people in Japan, these c and d batteries are only a little more expensive than buying a 4 pack of AA/AAA batteries (without a good quality spacer), so it still has some good benefits for us. A good quality spacer is also a few bucks, so it would only be a little less profitable in the D size battery if you look at total cost, because it having 3 instead of 4 batteries inside.


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## cbm

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



ChibiM said:


> Yep, still made, and with new wrapper..
> See the opening post


They don't seem to be sold in the US. I can only find the D-Cell on Amazon as a very expensive imported item. Too bad.


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## N8N

You can achieve an equivalent by just buying AAs and AAAs and using adapters... that's what I'm doing in some of my seldom used C and D cell lights. I got mine from an eBay seller 'world electric fan' and posted pics/review here a while back.

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Eneloop introduced some new editions for the European market.
Available from November 2013.
Eneloop Tropical


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## markr6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

LOL they definitely didn't copy the Tropicana logo there!


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## samgab

*Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Ooh, nice. I want. I'd also like to get 2 8-packs each of chocolat and glitter too, but the prices are pretty steep...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pebbles

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Thanks for the Star Trek reference, Scotty. 

Do you guys mix Eneloops, or do you have stories where mixed Eneloops proved damaging in some way?


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## HikingMano

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I'm about to pick up some new eneloops, and I can't quite figure out which one to get. I've been looking at this one on amazon, SEC-HR3U8BPN, which is the same one currently listed on the Sanyo site (see battery spec chart near bottom of page for additional info). 

Yet, going by this thread, it seems I should be looking to pick up HR-3UTGB, which would be this one on amazon.

Which one is the most current version? SEC-HR3U8BPN, according to the sanyo site, only gives 1500 cycles with 75% charge maintenance after 3yrs non-use, while the HR-3UTGB is supposed to give 1800 with 70% charge maintenance after 5yrs non-use (according to the OP list). The amazon ad for HR-3UTGB says 75% capacity after 5 years storage. It seems like HR-3UTGB is the one to get, but it isn't listed on the Sanyon site. Furthermore, HR-3U8BPN (or whatever pack iteration) is getting all the sales on amazon and was made available on amazon at a later date than the HR-3UTGB one I linked (suggesting a newer model, if "made available" date is any indication). I'm just thrown off by all the nomenclature which seems to vary by source...


Thanks in advance for any help 


Edited to add:
I decided to go with the HR-3UTGB batteries from amazon I linked above. There won't be a real practical difference for me in use, so I'm just splitting hairs here. Based on what I've gleaned here, and the nice little review(s) vouching for the batteries as legit by "NLee the Engineer" on Amazon, I figured might as well just get them and be done with it. I'd still like to know what the deal is though, if anyone can set me straight.


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## EneloopFan

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

HikingMano do you know if the Eneloops are genuine or counterfeit, since the Internet is full of fakes?


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## HikingMano

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I know there is a possibility they are counterfeit, but since I haven't received them yet, there is no way for me to verify. There's a good chance these are genuine since the product was linked by another member in this or another eneloop thread, and "NLee the Engineer" went so far as to test performance.


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## rbid1962

It is sad that all good products are copied as bad counterfeits as soon as posible...

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


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## A10ACN

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

So, what's the practical difference between the white regulars and the black XX?? From the posted guide here, I picked up a 4pack of the black XX 2nd Gen AAs and AAAs. I'm topping them off in my Sanyo Eneloop charger that came with two 'crowned' white regulars. 
If I'm reading the descriptions correctly the 3rd Gen have more recharge cycles??


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## mdixon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



buba said:


> How many of the various AAA and AA generations are still in production? I ask because I ordered some Std AA eneloops from amazon last month and received batteries labeled as HR-3UTGA (2nd gen) with a manufacture date of 13-06 (June 2013). At least the 2nd gen Std AA's were still being manufactured as of June of 2013 even though Gen 4's are in production.


I posted in another thread on getting 1500x batteries in a package with 1800x advertising (amazon's picture showed gen2, I was happy getting gen2 but the package I got said "1800x/5 yrs" with gen2 batteries inside and started wondering what was going on): http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...p-generation&p=4323530&viewfull=1#post4323530

I figured what I found out fit this thread better so am putting it here. 

I called the number on the back of the package, finally got some internal eneloop dept. and spoke to a super nice lady who said (iirc) she managed this product line. she told me gen2 batteries aren't being made anymore, that since march/april 2013 they're all gen3. however their transition wasn't smooth so they ended up using old gen2 wrappers on gen3 batteries and in other instances old packaging.

basically she said regardless of package advertising or battery wrapper, anything from march/april 2013 onward (eneloop AA/AAA) is a gen3 battery even if it has UTGA or a non-underlined crown on the wrapper. all the package/wrapper markings have long since been sorted out so this is about stock from during the transition period.

btw I never really questioned the authenticity of the batteries themselves, this site and others allowed me to determine they were genuine. but given contents not matching package advertising over a pretty long period I started to worry about something like assembly line rejects getting scooped up by someone, tossed in any packaging they could find then ultimately ending up on amazon.


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

That is really interesting, because I talked with a Japanese rep. And he said that they still produce 2nd and 3rd generation eneloops, next to the common 4th gen available in Japan.

I guess, they produced the batteries in Japan, shipped them and put a wrapper on them in the US..
How else could you have talked to someone that worked on the production line, if eneloops are made in Japan.
Many questions..
Anyway, you've got some real eneloops. The wrappers are still the question.. and the thing that lady wasn't right about is that Not All eneloops produced after april are 3rd.gen. here we have 4th gen. Eneloops 
That brings us to the next question.who is right, that lady or her Japanese colleague?
(Don't need to answer that, thanks for bringing that up from her story, I'm glad many people are interested in eneloops)


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## HikingMano

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

It's pretty annoying.

I recently ordered a pack of 8 from amazon from one of two sellers on an ad specifically advertising Gen3 Eneloops (I just went with the default seller chosen for me when I added the batteries to my cart). I received Gen 2 eneloops, HR-3UTGA, in what seemed like Gen3 packaging given the claims of 1800x recharge cycles and 70% charge retention after 5 years. I then ordered another 8-pack from the other seller, who - after I read the reviews - seemed more likely to provide genuine 3rd Gen Eneloops. I just received those cells today and they are in fact HR-3UTGB. 

HR-3UTGAs on left, HR-3UTGBs on right.











I noticed something odd about the cell dates: the HR-3UTGAs I received were dated 6/13 while the HR-3UTGBs were dated 5/13. I was working under the assumption that once 3rd gens were being made, manufacture of 2nd gens would cease, so the dates confused me. Given what mdixon posted above, it makes sense now. So, I guess I have 16 HR-3UTGBs, with 1/2 of them in HR-3UTGA wrappers... Time to bust out the sharpie.


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

So why would the Japanese rep. tell me that they still produce the 2nd 3rd and the 4th gen eneloops in the same factory.. and how can a rep. say that she was working at the production line, while eneloops are made in Japan?

Edit: the answers are going to be only assumptions, so that could get a little off-topic.


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## HikingMano

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



ChibiM said:


> So why would the Japanese rep. tell me that they still produce the 2nd 3rd and the 4th gen eneloops in the same factory.. and how can a rep. say that she was working at the production line, while eneloops are made in Japan?
> 
> Edit: the answers are going to be only assumptions, so that could get a little off-topic.



I was writing my post as you did yours, ChibiM, didn't see it until coming back to thread. Anyway, why would they still manufacture 2nd and 3rd gen, or any previous gen for that matter, when performance of the newest generation is supposedly better? Doesn't seem worthwhile to maintain production of obsolete models when the newest gen doesn't experience a loss of function in any way. 

FWIW, mdixon did not say she worked the production line. He said she managed the product line, which is entirely possible to do remotely.

I think the take home message is it's all a bit muddy. The sloppy transition (putting Gen2 wrappers on Gen3 batteries, really?) is one thing, possible misinformation is another.

ETA: I'm just going to play it safe and take only my eneloops actually labeled as HR-3UTGB in colder temps. That's probably the only place it's going to make a practical difference for me anyway.


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## amham

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



HikingMano said:


> I was writing my post as you did yours, ChibiM, didn't see it until coming back to thread. Anyway, why would they still manufacture 2nd and 3rd gen, or any previous gen for that matter, when performance of the newest generation is supposedly better? Doesn't seem worthwhile to maintain production of obsolete models when the newest gen doesn't experience a loss of function in any way.
> 
> FWIW, mdixon did not say she worked the production line. He said she managed the product line, which is entirely possible to do remotely.
> 
> I think the take home message is it's all a bit muddy. The sloppy transition (putting Gen2 wrappers on Gen3 batteries, really?) is one thing, possible misinformation is another.
> 
> ETA: I'm just going to play it safe and take only my eneloops actually labeled as HR-3UTGB in colder temps. That's probably the only place it's going to make a practical difference for me anyway.



FWIW, I routinely visit the Duracell HQ where they R&D their batteries and extensively test thousands of them. Their management, including Product Managers are located at HQ BUT the manufacturing is done all over the world. So it is easy to understand that the PM does not have a handle on what the factories are actually doing at anyone time. I can only guess that this may be occurring for Eneloop US.


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## HikingMano

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



amham said:


> FWIW, I routinely visit the Duracell HQ where they R&D their batteries and extensively test thousands of them. Their management, including Product Managers are located at HQ BUT the manufacturing is done all over the world. So it is easy to understand that the PM does not have a handle on what the factories are actually doing at anyone time. I can only guess that this may be occurring for Eneloop US.



Yep, exactly what I'm saying. The PM could indeed be here managing the product line and think one thing is going on, when in reality, the factories are really doing something else, as reported by the Japanese rep. Who knows *Shrug*


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## Rosoku Chikara

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



mdixon said:


> ...she managed this product line... <snip>



For what it's worth, I think the words "manage a product line" could be used to simply mean that someone is "in charge" of a particular product line. (As in, "I handle that product line in this market, as part of my sales portfolio.") I don't think it necessarily has any implication that such a person would have any real idea what is actually taking place on the factory floor, in another country where the product is being manufactured. (If they said "I manage that production line" that would, of course, be an entirely different matter.) In my experience, most US subsidiaries of Japanese manufacturers are in essence "trading companies" that have little or no knowledge of the manufacturing itself.


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## AleXis6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



ChibiM said:


> Available from November 2013.



Still with SANYO trade name.
So Panasonic eneloop will be exist with sanyo eneloop simultaneously?


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



AleXis6 said:


> Still with SANYO trade name.
> So Panasonic eneloop will be exist with sanyo eneloop simultaneously?



Yes..... at least for now..


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## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Thank you for this well-informing thread! I am a fresh newbie, I have the Maha C-9000 charger, and I wonder about those Tropical Eneloops - I have found them at a great price at nkon.nl, and I will use them solely for a high-drain bike light, the Sigma Powerled Black.I read that Eneloop has higher voltage than the other LSD, so I might as well get some Sanyo XX ( and even Camelion 2500 from China, via eBay) , and check the runtime? I love those tropical tones, but how are the batteries performance-wise? I do not mind the price difference - come on, I can easily skip a couple of sandwiches.


----------



## samgab

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



nimanchev said:


> ...I love those tropical tones, but how are the batteries performance-wise?...



Their performance is identical to the standard white eneloops (i.e. excellent). They're just in different coloured wrappers.


----------



## Petir

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

On ebay, Eneloop XX AAA 3rd generation costs about $6 more than the 2nd generation. Both has the same specs.
Is the battery 'age' something that need to be considered?


----------



## Bearmann

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I wanted to note that I just received some Eneloop Pro AA batteries in the black Sanyo packaging (500X) from GearShop, a subsidary of Amazon. They are marked HR-3UWXA with date code of 13-09 EY. The package says they retain 75% charge after one year and are rated 2500 mAh. The imprint on the batteries notes 2400 mAh.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Welcome to the forum! :welcome:


----------



## Bearmann

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



RI Chevy said:


> Welcome to the forum! :welcome:


Thank you  There are a lot of members here, so I don't expect to bring down the quality too much. :shakehead


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Thanks for sharing.. You`ve got 1st gen (even though it has the additional A at the end as in HR-3UWXA) which are good batteries! 
Sometimes the HR-3UWXA are called 2nd gen. but they have never been sold in Japan. 
So we can start calling them the 2nd gen... so it compares with the same generations in the standard eneloop, 1-2-3 and then 4. 
Maybe I should update the tables then... so they can be seen as 2nd gen.


----------



## Bearmann

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Really? I susupected that I received a later generation in the wrong wrappers as in post #52 since the manufacturing date was in Sept 2013. Maybe we need to call the manufacturer again for some clarification.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Yes, you could call them and ask for clarification. 
would be nice to know what they have to say.


----------



## bodhram

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



__philippe said:


> Check you PM box for a trustworthy Eneloop source way safer than eBay.
> 
> __philippe




Can you please PM me the source you are mentioning?

Thanks!


----------



## __philippe

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Hi bodhram,

Welcome on board !

You do not seem to have an active private mailbox currently.
Meanwhile, just google for *nkon.nl*....

Cheers,

__philippe


----------



## bodhram

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



__philippe said:


> Hi bodhram,
> 
> Welcome on board !
> 
> You do not seem to have an active private mailbox currently.
> Meanwhile, just google for *nkon.nl*....
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> __philippe



Hi Phillipe,

Thanks for the info and the warm welcome.

Hope I get the PM box unlocked soon.

Cheers!


----------



## __philippe

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



bodhram said:


> ... Hope I get the PM box unlocked soon. Cheers!



Might as well check your PM box, it's alive now...

__philippe


----------



## bobrip

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I recently bought some Eneloop XX cells. I found that they will run my Quark Pro QP2A-X Four Sevens light for one hour and 50 minutes on the highest setting. The older Eneloops would only run for 50 minutes. On the next level down it will run for 4.5 hours on the XX. I did not test the old Eneloops on this, but it is rated by Four Sevens at 2.5 hours. Obviously I am very pleased with this improvement.


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

That is good to know! The old eneloops were a huge disappointment to me.They scored from 1926 to 1976 mAH, but my bike light did not like them.I was able to get only 8 hours and 30 minutes on the lowest setting, while the cheapest Kaufland-branded alkalines gave me 14 hours! On the middle setting, Eneloops gave me 3 hours and 20 minutes, while the same alkalines gave me 5 hours and 20 minutes, and where brighter too.I can honestly say that Eneloops are overrated, and the alkalines did wipe the floor with them.I have purchased other LSD batteries - Btone 2500, Uniross 2400, and of course, Eneloop XX, and will share my impressions in 10 days or so, after they arrive from The Netherlands.Damn, it takes so long that I wonder if I have ordered them from the Netherrealms, lol !


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Yeah, eneloops are the best! hahaha 

1926 and 1976 are not bad numbers at all! and your observation is interesting, but doesn`t say too much negative about the eneloops, because of the type of flashlight you used.. in some applications they aren`t the best concerning the longest runtime, but at the end of the day, you can recharge them again, and not have to keep buying new alkalines and throw the used ones out.


----------



## caddylover

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

i was at Costco yesterday and they had 8 AA Eneloops and 4 AAA with a charger for $24.99. They were blue and claim a shelf life of 70% at 5 years.


----------



## mojo-chan

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



nimanchev said:


> That is good to know! The old eneloops were a huge disappointment to me.They scored from 1926 to 1976 mAH, but my bike light did not like them.I was able to get only 8 hours and 30 minutes on the lowest setting, while the cheapest Kaufland-branded alkalines gave me 14 hours! On the middle setting, Eneloops gave me 3 hours and 20 minutes, while the same alkalines gave me 5 hours and 20 minutes, and where brighter too.



It's because your bike light is designed for alkaline cells with a higher voltage. If it were designed for NiMH it would be fine with Eneloops. The cut-off voltage is too high, you were probably not draining the Eneloops completely. It's probably an easy fix you can solder.


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Thank you ! The tech support has told me the same - it was designed for the alkalines.The light failed to recognize brand-new Sunmol AnyEnow and Varta Ready 2 use LSD batteries, so I have asked them to send me a new cartridge, and guess what - the batteries worked in the new cartridge.
How do I know if the NI-MH batteries are not drained completely ? I will put the light on and when it stops, I can put them in my C-9000 charger for a test.What program should I choose? Maybe Discharge, but at what rate? Maybe 100ma?


----------



## Power Me Up

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



nimanchev said:


> How do I know if the NI-MH batteries are not drained completely ? I will put the light on and when it stops, I can put them in my C-9000 charger for a test.What program should I choose? Maybe Discharge, but at what rate? Maybe 100ma?



Yep - just put them in and run a discharge. I wouldn't bother going down to 100mA though - the default 500mA discharge rate should be fine.


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I have just run the Eneloops on the medium setting for the bike light, until it stopped, and guess what - after putting them in the C-9000 charger for a 300 ma discharge - they were all flat, ranging from 1 to 5 mAH left in them.


----------



## Power Me Up

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



nimanchev said:


> I have just run the Eneloops on the medium setting for the bike light, until it stopped, and guess what - after putting them in the C-9000 charger for a 300 ma discharge - they were all flat, ranging from 1 to 5 mAH left in them.



Previously you stated that the Alkalines lasted longer and were brighter too. Is it possible that you only compared the brightness at the start? If the light is unregulated, it will start out brighter on the Alkalines since they have a higher starting voltage. The Alkalines however will gradually drop in brightness the whole time whereas the Eneloops will plateau and end up running brighter most of the time. In an unregulated light, because the Eneloops hold a higher voltage for longer, the average current will be higher which means that they will also discharge in less time.


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Alkalines started brighter, I suppose, but the difference might be in my imagination.But I have put the light off the bike and onto my desk for the test, everytime at 20C ambient temperature.I can assure that this bike light does not dim or faint - it remains constantly bright until shutting down.


----------



## Power Me Up

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



nimanchev said:


> Alkalines started brighter, I suppose, but the difference might be in my imagination.But I have put the light off the bike and onto my desk for the test, everytime at 20C ambient temperature.I can assure that this bike light does not dim or faint - it remains constantly bright until shutting down.



Can you provide details about your bike light please?

Either your bike light is actually unregulated, or there is something wrong with your Eneloops...


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Manufacturer`s webpage gives little to no details...just 90 LUX, up to 100 metres.I have ordered 3 x 4 LSD batteries : Eneloop XX, Uniross 2400, and Btone 2500.When I receive them, I will update with more info...My current Eneloop charge at 1A from 1890 to 1943 mAH, but Break-in seems to squeeze some extra mAH into them...


----------



## Power Me Up

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



nimanchev said:


> Manufacturer`s webpage gives little to no details...just 90 LUX, up to 100 metres.



Can you provide the web site address? I probably won't be familiar with it, but others here might be.



> I have ordered 3 x 4 LSD batteries : Eneloop XX, Uniross 2400, and Btone 2500.When I receive them, I will update with more info...My current Eneloop charge at 1A from 1890 to 1943 mAH, but Break-in seems to squeeze some extra mAH into them...



It will be interesting to hear how you go with them.


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

http://www.sigmasport.com/en/produkte/beleuchtung/powerlights/powerled_black/ It is an old, but very convenient bike light for multi-day trips, as it uses 4 x AA or the utter expensive Li-on battery, that costs 80 EUR ( ! ).I would not like an external battery with cable, it looks amateur and pathetic.Especially in the rain...


----------



## Power Me Up

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

According to that site, it's a constant brightness light, so that indicates that it is regulated. You probably just imagined it being brighter with alkalines...

Alkalines do have higher capacity (about 50% more) than Eneloops, but only for very slow discharges (e.g. around 100 hours or more) The run times that you reported are about 60% longer for the alkalines - but at those rates, I'd expect the alkaline run times to be significantly shorter than the Eneloops.

Either there is something wrong with your Eneloops or there is something weird about your light! It will be interesting to see how the other rechargeables go when you get them.


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



Power Me Up said:


> Can you provide the web site address? I probably won't be familiar with it, but others here might be.
> 
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to hear how you go with them.



I have just broken-in a quad of Eneloop XX and a quad of the new Uniross Hybrio 2400.They have all met their stated capacity.While Eneloop has some advantage, the XX batteries are more expensive than the Uniross.Here are some results, as some users wanted me to post them :

2400 mAH Uniross Hybrio : Out of the box, discharged @ 600ma in the C-9000, they were all DONE at 1.14V, reading 1887 / 1889 / 1914 / 1926 mAH( arguably equal to a fresh charged pair of the original Eneloops, caugh-caugh-caugh, I have made my mind about the difference ), an average of 1904 mAH.After breaking-in, they measured 2354 /2383 / 2414 / 2417 mAH, which gives us an average capacity of 2392 mAH, quite close to the stated 2400 mAH.I am not surprised - many people had great luck with Uniross / Rayovac Hybrios before, making them a bargain for their price.

Eneloop XX : Out of the box, they were quite disappointing at 600 mA discharge.One of the batteries was DONE @ 1.14V, the other three stopped at 1.15V.The readings were 2 x 1260 mAH, and 1241 / 1246 mAH for the other two, giving an average of 1251,75 mAH ( significantly lower than the Uniross ).What a shame for the so-called king of the hill, which is rated 150 mAH higher than the Uniross.After breaking them in, the results are 2512 / 2518 / 2537 / 2554 mAH, which gives an average of 2530, 25 mAH...not quite 150 mAH above the Uniross.There are different point of views, especially price / performance ratio and availability.

P.S None of the batteries had manufacturing date...The Uniross ones had nothing on their carton / blister, and the Eneloop XX were bought with a plastic case from Nkon.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Hi Nimanchev, 
thanks for the test. 
How much do these Uniross go for?
And what does 2400 mean? is that minimal rating or typical? 
Eneloop XX are rated 2450Min, not 2550 as you suggest. 

Eneloop XX don`t come fully charged.. that`s how they are sold..
Thats not a shame,that the XX come low out of the box, and they still are a rank above your uniross cells, after the charge. 
you just DONT measure performance of Nimh batteries Out of the box....!!
Your Uniross rated at 2400 Underperform at 2354 and 2383 while the eneloop XX rated at 2450 Overperform, all cells. 

Not saying your batteries are bad in any way, just putting the facts together..


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Thanks! I have a minor update - I have just recharged the Hybrios for the first time @ 1200 ma, and the results are overwhelming - 2477 / 2552 / 2593 / 2607, and we all know that the C-9000 does not fully charge ! I will update with more info tonight.I do not care about brand loyalty, I do not believe anything before I test it myself.I might even buy more LSD high-capacity cells from different brand, just for the test.I have had great luck with HSD Uniross batteries a long time ago.My bike light is an old mode that is not very common to find, so maybe a separate thread will not be a good idea.I bought the Hybrios from eBay UK.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

so, you Charged them? or discharge them?
charging is something different than discharging... capacity is measured by discharge, not charge.


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

I first charge them, and put the light on the most poweful setting, and compare the runtime of the batteries.Then, I recharge them, and I make a final discharge to measure capacity.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

So those numbers are Discharge numbers?


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

ChibiM, the battery says " 2400 series ", nothing more, and the package says " Made in China ".As for the discharge numbers, I do not have all of them yet - I tried to post all numbers - first, out of the box discharge capacity, then a break-in cycle, then a discharge, and then another charge.My real-life testing is more important for me, as I measure the runtime in my bike light.I will summarize all info in a few days, since the testing is quite long.For now, the charge numbers of both Eneloop XX as Uniross 2400 is absolutely identical, an average of 2556 mAH for both quads.This is my first ever testing, so I appreciate your advices, as I am still a novice.This is my second bike light, my last bike was stolen, and I have used this light for 5 years and with dozens of NI-MH.From all of them, I rate the older GP Recyko at # 1 ( the white-green version, that had their top factory peeled-off), and I can confirm Archae86`s tests about LSD Ni-MH - I have tried most of the batteries.Sanyo 2500 batteries ( white, blue and orange in color ) were not much better than the Recyko, and they have dropped fast and became worse...until two of them showed HIGH just in 6 months of very intensive use.I have also tried the identical to the GP, Kodak precharged, they were head-to-head with Camelion 2300 in two years of intensive use.Right now I have bought the newer GP Recyko + , that has two tones of green, but it is waiting for its turn to be broken in, I have many batteries waiting for testing in the bike light...

http://2imgs.com/2i/i/52f5447e/71334f3eb9c93029bf0cff41a1ec5157/552b6b4192.f.jpg


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Here some proof of how strong eneloops are. 
These are tested at 2A charge and about 1.7A discharge.

(Hopefully more info about eneloop cycle data coming.... how they test 1500/1800/2100 cycles according to JIS C8708 2007/ C8708 2013 standards)

Hardcore cycle tests by forum member _Power Me UP_, Link to CPF thread for discussions here
And direct link to his website and all data here


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I apologize for the delay - I had to wait for 5-6 weeks to get the Btone 2500 LSD from DX.As I expected, they were slightly disappointing, but I could not complain, as they are quite cheaper than both XX and Hybrios, and close in performance.They are all above 2350 mAH.I do not have the time, desire and skills to do extended test, as I am more interested in real life situations.So, I made dozens of so-called tests.My bike lights require 4 x AA to run, and has 3 different power settings, so I tried all the batteries in all three settings.Each test was run 4 times and I tried to average the results, which took me some weeks.I am sad to say that for this particular light, Alkaline batteries still give me more runtime than any AA LSD.I know that some people are slave to brands and tend to insault other people who think differently, which I find laughful - a tool is more important than a man for those people? Pathetic...
Anyway, here is what I found out when calculating the runtime on its 3 different settings - it seems that my light does not like the Eneloop batteries at the maximum brightness setting.I use the max setting all the time, so I do not really care about the lowest setting, where a pack of cheap Alkalines gave me a whopping 14 hours runtime! After it turns off, I put all LSD batteries in the C-9000 charger and run a discharge at 100ma, and they are all DONE in a few minutes:

GP RECYKO - 2h 29 min / 3h 33 min / 8h 50 min

Eneloop - 2h 27 min / 3h 19 min / 8h 27 min.

Eneloop XX : 2h 56 min / 4h 20 min / 10h 15 min DISCHARGE NUMBERS : 2510 / 2509 / 2497 /2489.Additional discharge @ 100 mA : 37 / 34 / 32 / 44

Hybrio 2400 : 3h 02 min / 4h 10 min / 9h 55 min DISCHARGE NUMBERS : 2355 / 2372 / 2357 / 2367.Additional discharge @ 100mA : 47 / 39 / 42 / 54

I realise that different lights will have totally different results, that are also depending on different battery batch and condition, ambient T - you name it.Which batteries give the best value will be very different for everyone, as it depends on what deal one can get.I bought the Hybrio 2400 for less than 13 EUR shipped in Europe, so I prefer them over the XX.However, the wrap of the XX seems more durable around the edges.In the end, I needed at least 4 different quads of AA LSD, so my money were well spent and I do not regret anything.I hope I might be helpful with this tiny statistics.

P.S I do not believe any hardcore testing with any device different than the one to be used with the LSD batteries, as advertisements claim that AA LSD batteries give from 4 to 8 times longe runtime, but I see that with my bike light, it is quite the opposite.It is too bad that modern, more powerful bike lights come with LI-ON battery, which does not suit multi-day marathons.


----------



## Power Me Up

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



nimanchev said:


> Alkaline batteries still give me more runtime than any AA LSD.



Can you please provide the run times that you're getting with alkalines on each of the modes and also tell us which brand and model of alkaline you're testing with?


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Sure, you are welcome.You might probably laugh at me for being cheap, but I live close to the Kaufland discounter hypermarket, a widely popular one in Europe.I saw a sale, 12 alkaline batteries for just 3 EUR.They were from the hypermarket`s own brand, K-classic satisfaction guarantee.Well, 3 power settings, 4 dead alkaline batteries after each try - just what I needed.I remember that I tried them at 21C ambient T...So, I was quite surprised when they performed as the following, starting from the maximum, to the lowest power setting:

3h 10 min / 5h 20 min / 14h 05 min.

The light`s strongest power mode seems to be a combined mode of focused + wide.For longer rides, 100km or more, I prefer the middle setting, as it seems more balanced and evenly spread.They still give me an hour more than the full charged XX, and are dirt cheap.Of course, it is a matter of luck - I might have scored a fresh batch.Here are the alkaline batteries, I was lucky enough to find an online test :

http://anrieff.net/batterytest/details/AA/K-Classic-Alkaline-en.html


----------



## Power Me Up

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I'm guessing that you don't have access to a lux meter perhaps?


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I do not own any, I guess I could buy one, but why bother, as I am not sure what would I use it for more than once or twice, and I do not know if I can see the difference in brightness, while I am on the road.You might click here to see a quick photo of what I have left, after selling the white Eneloops and the green GP Recykos to a friend of mine.The Btone and Uniross have poor wrap quality around the edges, it looks like partially melted one :


----------



## Power Me Up

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



nimanchev said:


> I do not own any, I guess I could buy one, but why bother, as I am not sure what would I use it for more than once or twice, and I do not know if I can see the difference in brightness, while I am on the road.You might click here to see a quick photo of what I have left, after selling the white Eneloops and the green GP Recykos to a friend of mine.The Btone and Uniross have poor wrap quality around the edges, it looks like partially melted one :



My guess at what is happening is that your light is dropping down to a lower setting when you're using alkalines and their voltage has dropped down a bit and that's why they're lasting longer. I wouldn't consider that a failing of the rechargeables but rather just a consequence of the way that your light works.

As long as you're not noticing the difference in brightness and you're happy to keep buying more alkalines all the time, then you may as well continue doing so. Personally, I'd use the Eneloops or other rechargeables even with shorter run times since it would be a lot cheaper in the long run, but that doesn't mean that you have to do the same.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Thanks Nimanchev for doing these tests... Always appreciated. 
Maybe a good idea to also start a new thread with your findings, so it will be easier to find by others, when they search about those Uniross batteries, 
or even for those alkaline batteries. 
Keep in mind that 13EUR is 18USD.. and for 19USD you can have a 4 pack of AA PRO, that I sell on cpfm, shipped worldwide. Which I would prefer over the Uniross, just because there is not much tests around looking at the quality in the longer run. While eneloop has a proven countability.
Also, keep in mind that in a year of using and throwing away Alkaline batteries, not only would you save your wallet, also the environment  by choosing rechargeable batteries.


----------



## nimanchev

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Well, I did this only because you were interested to see.There are hundreds of different lights, so I doubt that anyone else over the forum has the same model as mine.19 USD shipped is a very good price, but unfortunately, I will have to pay 3 EUR tax + 20 % VAT, when receiving something outside of the EU, while the Uniross from the UK is OK.The XX are overpriced in the EU, they cost 20 EUR in my country, exluding delivery ( ! ) I have also read many CPF posts about the XX being overpriced.One member even said that after 160 cycles, the XX dropped to the level of the proven white Eneloops.So, I guess some other member owes me an apology ( cough cough ).

P.S I had bought the Sanyo MQR06 kit charger with the bundled HR-3UWXA batteries, as they were on sale.I tested the batteries in my light with identical results as the ones previously posted.


----------



## kingwellenergy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

That is very comprehensive.But I don't know them.There are two 18650 batteries in my flashlight.


----------



## europium

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



HikingMano said:


> I'm about to pick up some new eneloops, and I can't quite figure out which one to get. I've been looking at this one on amazon, SEC-HR3U8BPN, which is the same one currently listed on the Sanyo site (see battery spec chart near bottom of page for additional info).
> 
> Yet, going by this thread, it seems I should be looking to pick up HR-3UTGB, which would be this one on amazon.
> 
> Which one is the most current version? SEC-HR3U8BPN, according to the sanyo site, only gives 1500 cycles with 75% charge maintenance after 3yrs non-use, while the HR-3UTGB is supposed to give 1800 with 70% charge maintenance after 5yrs non-use (according to the OP list). The amazon ad for HR-3UTGB says 75% capacity after 5 years storage. It seems like HR-3UTGB is the one to get, but it isn't listed on the Sanyon site. Furthermore, HR-3U8BPN (or whatever pack iteration) is getting all the sales on amazon and was made available on amazon at a later date than the HR-3UTGB one I linked (suggesting a newer model, if "made available" date is any indication). I'm just thrown off by all the nomenclature which seems to vary by source....


I purchased an 8-pack of Eneloop AA batteries listed as SEC-HR3U8BPN on Amazon here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004UG41XW/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Although the outside packaging claims 1800 recharge cycles and 70% capacity after 5 years, all of the cells inside are all labeled HR-3UTGA, which matches 2nd generation batteries. Rather than these being 3rd gen. cells inside 2nd gen. wrappers, it seems more likely to me that these are indeed 2nd gen. cells appropriately wrapped and that they were subsequently placed inside 3rd gen. packaging.

BTW, these were purchased directly from Amazon, LLC.


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

For now, I have HR-3UTGA, 11-05LX in Pink and Yellow.
I can't seem to find my white ones and don't know which Gen they are. Probably 1st.
Am picking up some Disney ones soon.

I was wondering where my Sanyo Harmolattice 2500mAh (metallic red/orange wrapper) fall into?
It has "Powered by Eneloop technology" printed on the side.
Some say that they are the same as the Eneloop XX.
Their code:
HR-3U25HM
10-11UG
Min. 2,400mAh


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Where do you get those Disney ones from? 
They are older eneloops, and limited editions, so likely they are going to be quite a bit more expensive than regular ones. 

the Sanyo Harmollatic ARE eneloop XX batteries. The only difference is that the Harmolattice don`t come pre-charged... so they are basically empty XX/PRO batteries


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Just old stock from one of the local battery dealers here. It's a store that specializes in just batteries and chargers.
From Alkalines and Lithium primaries to Li-Ions. Standard sizes and specialty ones as well for other type of electronics.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Just wondering how much they'll charge for them..

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk


----------



## Sarratt

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Thank you for this valuable resource.

Just saved me at least $15 (can). 

I was going to purchase some XX cells from Dell Canada 

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/pro...=77903&acd=CAqD7bLWUPI-ZvJfNhZ2mpANdG3dkK02Nw 

but I see they are HR3UWXA4A which I *thought* was not the most reliable version. Is that correct?

Am I missing a good deal ?

Advice appreciated


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



ChibiM said:


> Just wondering how much they'll charge for them..
> 
> Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk



If I'm not mistaken, around US$3.50-$4 each. Imported stuff are expensive here. I'm just getting 4pcs. 2 of the Mickey Mouse bodies and 2 of another design to be used as pairs.
Color coding my batteries makes it easier that I use the same age cells and that they get charged together.
For single cell usage, I use the Eneloop Tropical since they have different colors.


----------



## teacher

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

*ChibiM*,

Thanks for this great info!!!!!!


----------



## soontobetold

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Which charger should I get for: 3rd Gen Pro AA (BK-3HCC), 4th Gen Std AA (BK-3MCC) and 4th Gen Std AA (BK-4MCC)


----------



## mircozorzo

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Any good charger like Maha C9000.


----------



## soontobetold

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



mircozorzo said:


> Any good charger like Maha C9000.


possible for you to link me?

Shouldn't I get a Eneloop branded charger?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

There is no need for an eneloop charger if you can buy a Maha C9000, which has many more functions. 
if you want to keep it plain simple, yes, you can buy an eneloop charger, but take note that look for the better ones. 
Not time based chargers, but rather a "Smart-Charger" that can detect when the batteries are full.


----------



## soontobetold

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



ChibiM said:


> There is no need for an eneloop charger if you can buy a Maha C9000, which has many more functions.
> if you want to keep it plain simple, yes, you can buy an eneloop charger, but take note that look for the better ones.
> Not time based chargers, but rather a "Smart-Charger" that can detect when the batteries are full.


Can you advise which Eneloop charger specifically should I get? I want something simple.

Is this the MAHA C9000 you are talking about? http://amzn.com/B003DIGKOG


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Hi,
I'm not sure which eneloop chargers are available in your area. There are quite a few different ones. The Maha goes for about $50-$70, while a simple eneloop charger is much cheaper, probably around $20-$30 including eneloop cells.
If you think you want to learn more about batteries etc, then the Maha is a good but expensive choice.. there are also other chargers which are cheaper, like the lacrosse bc700 etc but with the same kind of functionality as the Maha, but that is better to talk about in another thread...this is about eneloops..links are fine to post, but we shouldn't get too much off topic.
Do a little research, and I would suggest one of those multi functional chargers over a simple eneloop charger.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk


----------



## soontobetold

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



ChibiM said:


> Hi,
> I'm not sure which eneloop chargers are available in your area. There are quite a few different ones. The Maha goes for about $50-$70, while a simple eneloop charger is much cheaper, probably around $20-$30 including eneloop cells.
> If you think you want to learn more about batteries etc, then the Maha is a good but expensive choice.. there are also other chargers which are cheaper, like the lacrosse bc700 etc but with the same kind of functionality as the Maha, but that is better to talk about in another thread...this is about eneloops..links are fine to post, but we shouldn't get too much off topic.
> Do a little research, and I would suggest one of those multi functional chargers over a simple eneloop charger.
> 
> Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk


I'm open to ordering online so no issue there.

I was wondering which Eneloop charger is better than the NC-MQR02N charger I got previously with my old Eneloop? I am just looking for no frills charger actually nothing fanciful, so I will probably just stick with Eneloop branded chargers. Just need some advise on the charger to get because I usually thought then newer generation chargers would be better, but there seems to be so many chargers and I do not know which is the latest.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Soontobetold, you have been advised to do some researching; that would be a good thing for you to do. Research right here on CPF. Use the google, cpf only, search bar at the top of every page. You must do some work yourself. This thread needs to continue on track, so no more posts re your issue. Feel free to start your own thread re batteries. Thanks,

Bill


----------



## Etsu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



mdixon said:


> I posted in another thread on getting 1500x batteries in a package with 1800x advertising (amazon's picture showed gen2, I was happy getting gen2 but the package I got said "1800x/5 yrs" with gen2 batteries inside and started wondering what was going on):
> 
> I called the number on the back of the package, finally got some internal eneloop dept. and spoke to a super nice lady who said (iirc) she managed this product line. she told me gen2 batteries aren't being made anymore, that since march/april 2013 they're all gen3. however their transition wasn't smooth so they ended up using old gen2 wrappers on gen3 batteries and in other instances old packaging.
> 
> basically she said regardless of package advertising or battery wrapper, anything from march/april 2013 onward (eneloop AA/AAA) is a gen3 battery even if it has UTGA or a non-underlined crown on the wrapper. all the package/wrapper markings have long since been sorted out so this is about stock from during the transition period.



I just bought some Eneloops from Costco, and can report a similar finding.

The wrappers indicate 2nd gen HG-3UTGA and HR-4UTGA cells. Marked with a date code showing they were manufactured in March 2013.

But the packaging clearly indicates gen 3 cells. 1800x cycles, 5 years to 70% self discharge, etc. So, I take it these are gen 3 cells, since they were manufactured after March 2013?

Canada/US wrappers, if that helps. The wrappers say Made In Japan. But perhaps the cells are made in Japan, then bulk-shipped to North American facilities where the wrappers are installed? Or are the wrappers installed in Japan?


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Is there a difference in the operating temperature range, depending on the generation of Eneloop? I recall reading somewhere that generation 1 minimum operating temperature was 0C, and generation 2 lowered that to -20C. But I can't find that difference anywhere now, just standard literature that applies to current Eneloops. Does generation 3 or 4 or XX have even lower minimum temperatures, or better performance at -20C ?


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Welcome to the Forum! :welcome:


----------



## markr6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Is there a difference in the operating temperature range, depending on the generation of Eneloop? I recall reading somewhere that generation 1 minimum operating temperature was 0C, and generation 2 lowered that to -20C. But I can't find that difference anywhere now, just standard literature that applies to current Eneloops. Does generation 3 or 4 or XX have even lower minimum temperatures, or better performance at -20C ?



Generations 1 thru 4 operating temp is the same 0-50°C

Maybe you're thinking about the storage temp of -20°C (and lower)

p.s. I don't find temps below 0° (32°F) to be an issue. I often use flashlights and a GPS unit between 10°F and 20°F with no noticable problems.

pps - I just noticed the packaging or insert says *"Performance Down to -4 Degrees Fahrenheit". *So, there's clearly some confusion between this and the spec sheet.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Finally fount it! I was off by a bit.

http://us.sanyo.com/Battery-Products/AA-8-Pack-SEC-HR3U8BPN

It states,

_"1500 CYCLE VS. ORIGINAL 1000 CYCLE ENELOOP

Improved low temperature performance - The new 1500 cycle battery can be used in environments down to -4 degrees F. The original eneloop can be used in temperatures as low as 14 degrees F."_


I wonder if that is just marketing, or if it's really true. I find that the original Eneloops still work fine far below 14 F. I have some in a weather station that still works close to -30C (-22 F). Maybe I should replace them with gen 2 or gen 3, just to be sure?


----------



## markr6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I have a lot of 1st and 2nd gen Eneloops. I just received a new 8-pack from Amazon and I believe they're the new 4th gen (BK-3MCC). To be exact, the 8pk item was BK-3MCCA8BA.

Keeping them on hand just in case...18650s seemed to COMPLETELY take over my lighting needs.


----------



## Pmg1977

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I'm new to this forum and the world of flashlights and their batteries as well. I've just bought 4th gen eneloop batteries bk-3mcca 1.2v min 1900 mAh model. My concern comes from the talk of battery fires in flashlights, mostly dual cell flashlights. I have a few lights the streamlight stylus pro and a maglight pro mini. Both take 2 batteries. Do I need to be concerned with my eneloop batteries getting too hot and catching fire? 



Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Hello Pmg1977,

Welcome to CPF.

No need for concern with Eneloop or other NiMh batteries.

A few have encountered problems with [EDIT]Li-Ion is incorrect and should just be Lithium[ENDEDIT] primary CR-123A batteries. Many of these problems have involved "no name" batteries that may be slightly less expensive than the name brand batteries. This can result in a mismatch and in a multi cell application you can end up with the situation where one cell tries to charge the other. Primary batteries don't like this and you run the possibility of having a "rapid vent, sometimes with flame" incident.

With NiMh chemistry you can also run into mismatch situations but the end result simply kills the cell.

Tom


----------



## Pmg1977

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Tom, 

Thanks so much for replying. Good to know that the nimh batteries don't run the risk of going into flames. 

Last question, what is meant by the term primary battery? 

Thanks again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## Norm

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Primary batteries = non rechargeable batteries. 

Norm


----------



## Ozymandias

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



mdixon said:


> I posted in another thread on getting 1500x batteries in a package with 1800x advertising (amazon's picture showed gen2, I was happy getting gen2 but the package I got said "1800x/5 yrs" with gen2 batteries inside and started wondering what was going on): http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...p-generation&p=4323530&viewfull=1#post4323530
> 
> I figured what I found out fit this thread better so am putting it here.
> 
> I called the number on the back of the package, finally got some internal eneloop dept. and spoke to a super nice lady who said (iirc) she managed this product line. she told me gen2 batteries aren't being made anymore, that since march/april 2013 they're all gen3. however their transition wasn't smooth so they ended up using old gen2 wrappers on gen3 batteries and in other instances old packaging.
> 
> basically she said regardless of package advertising or battery wrapper, anything from march/april 2013 onward (eneloop AA/AAA) is a gen3 battery even if it has UTGA or a non-underlined crown on the wrapper. all the package/wrapper markings have long since been sorted out so this is about stock from during the transition period.
> 
> btw I never really questioned the authenticity of the batteries themselves, this site and others allowed me to determine they were genuine. but given contents not matching package advertising over a pretty long period I started to worry about something like assembly line rejects getting scooped up by someone, tossed in any packaging they could find then ultimately ending up on amazon.



I've got the same issue, as a number of others here have also stated. I ordered the blue 'power pack' in February and 16 more AA's in May and the AA's in both are labeled HR-3UTGA and the AAA's in the power pack are lableled HR-4UTGA and both sets were in packaging that specifically stated 1800 recharge cycles. IIRC, the associated literature on Amazon also stated they were 3rd gen 1800 cycle batteries. This is all very interesting, and frustrating. I noticed some people were referencing the Sanyo site to determine model numbers--is this just for the latest models? The site seems clunky, and they don't seem to want to be contacted about eneloops at all; "Customer Support for SANYO Legacy Products, except for SANYO TV and eneloop."--from us.Sanyo.com. I suppose I'll call the number on the back of the package I still have and see what they say. May not get much of a substantive response, but would still be interesting to compare what, if any, information I get with the other person who contacted them about this.

Note: None of the AA's or AAA's have vent holes...I noticed someone said that '2nd gen' eneloops had ventholes...these don't, which I suppose just adds to the confusion.

Edit: one set of AA's were manufactured in February of 13, the other in November of 13. The AAA's are dated January of 13.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



Ozymandias said:


> Note: None of the AA's or AAA's have vent holes...I noticed someone said that '2nd gen' eneloops had ventholes...these don't, which I suppose just adds to the confusion.



2nd gen do not have ventholes. 1st gen did.


----------



## samgab

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

deleted post, off topic.


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Hello Samgab,

Good catch on that. I have edited my post accordingly.

Thanks.

Tom


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> 2nd gen do not have ventholes. 1st gen did.



Please refer to the 3rd post in this thread.. 2nd gen had a conversion from venting holes to no venting holes... so 2nd generation had Both... 
first with venting holes, then without venting holes...

sorry for being a nitpicker


----------



## theilluminati

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



ChibiM said:


>


 
Nice picture but when it has been updated?

Maybe the latest updates has been missing?

See here: http://panasonic.net/energy/battery/eneloop/lineup/


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Hi, 
thanks for pointing that out.. I just went to the site, but everything there is written already in the table. 
At least Im very confident it`s there. DId I still miss something?
the numbers in my table are Minimum ratings.. Japan stopped showing Rated capacity a while back. 
And because I follow the Japanese number when they start releasing them (April 2013 for 4th gen. ) I havent included the Rated capacity. Since they became available in the US and Europe a few months ago, I haven`t felt the urge to update the table. 

what do you guys think? Should I change the table, and include the rated capacity now?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

As per title..
panasonic just announced another special edition eneloop on October 14th.

available from November 29th

they are 4th generation standard eneloops.

after the Glamour tones. now the Forest tones... actually the black and green look pretty cool.

unfortuantely, unlike the 3rd generation chocolat tones with 8 unique colors, these only have 4 variations.













I can`t see yet, if these are made in Japan, or made in China.. but I`m pretty sure they are made in Japan, because they can be found on the Japanese website.. while the china made ones can`t.
btw. I have been waiting for new eneloops. because they have announced the new versions usually around november.


----------



## Bright+

*Just opened a new pack of old stock 2008 vitange eneloop. Still had a full charge*


I was cleaning things out and I found a set of charger/4 AA combo I bought a long time ago and forgot about. They're Sony branded pre-charged. Made in Japan 2,000mAh 1,000 cycle rated. I think they're rebranded eneloop. The date code is 2008. I discharged them at 500mA. They all delivered 1,300-1,350 mAh and held a stady 1.15 to 1.20v during the bulk of discharge cycle. After six years. Right out of the package!

From what I gathered in threads here, they are shipped pre-charged, but not completely full. 

Charged them back up with an eneloop charger. After my first charge, I discharged them at 1,000mA. I got 1900 to 1950mAh from every one of them. I chose 1A just to cut the time. 

I also have two made in 2006. They put out voltage but they are so deteriorated that every charger rejects them and I can only charge in a timer charger. They were all kept loose and not in a device so they didn't get drained to the ground. I wonder if the first use initiates a permanent internal structure that gets the clock ticking on deterioration in storage or if the key is to store them half charged. Are they equally shelf stable if If I cycle them a few times and store them again at half charge? 

NiMH was in the most competitive phase in those days. I remember getting NiMH bundled with a Sony charger that got rejected by the charger right out of the package and it was a current model back then.


----------



## samgab

*Re: Just opened a new pack of old stock 2008 vitange eneloop. Still had a full charge*

I just found a local (NZ and Australia chain) store selling a new Chinese-made edition of the Chocolat 8-packs.
They have the same specs as the other 2100 cycle Chinese eneloops.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Just opened a new pack of old stock 2008 vitange eneloop. Still had a full charge*

Samgab: I am not so much concerned about the Chinese eneloops, but the Chinese chocolat tones have been in Australia for a while now at ****Smith I think.
Bright+ pretty consistent numbers on those cells.. are they Sony? or eneloop branded?
Interesting observation.. so you mean that the latter ones (getting rejected by chargers) are the same as the "new pack" you found?


Just for an update, I just got the latest Eneloop Forest tones in, and selling 5 packs at CPFMarketplace


----------



## samgab

*Re: Just opened a new pack of old stock 2008 vitange eneloop. Still had a full charge*



ChibiM said:


> ...Interesting observation.. so you mean that the latter ones (getting rejected by chargers) are the same as the "new pack" you found?



Hey, I just meant they are Chinese made and rated for 2100 cycles and 65% capacity after 5 years. I haven't had any trouble with the charger rejecting them... They're branded eneloop, but have different livery than the Japanese made Panasonic eneloops.


----------



## Verndog

*Re: Just opened a new pack of old stock 2008 vitange eneloop. Still had a full charge*

Best deal on made in Japan Eneloops are Amazon Basic AA's 8 pack for $15.98

These appear to be Gen 2 or 3 made in Japan, same specs, same measurments, they test out exactly the same and only difference is they have de-speced the LSD numbers 5% per year and # of charging cycles. Most likely to keep the original manufacturer off their back for undercutting the Eneloop market. 

NLee reviewed these as well, and I agree with his findings...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CWNMV4G/?tag=cpf0b6-20


----------



## Bright+

*Re: Just opened a new pack of old stock 2008 vitange eneloop. Still had a full charge*



ChibiM said:


> Bright+ pretty consistent numbers on those cells.. are they Sony? or eneloop branded?
> Interesting observation.. so you mean that the latter ones (getting rejected by chargers) are the same as the "new pack" you found?



The new old stock ones from 2008 are Sony CycleEnergy precharged. 2,000mAh. 

The ones that get rejected are manufactured in 2006, but they were not stored new and unused. I used them a 20-30 cycles maybe before then, they were unused for a few years. They still have 1.2v, but they're passivated. This is why I was asking if NiMH do not store well once you have used them. 

Cycle life given by the manufacturer is a joke. They don't represent the real world at all. If the cells can't handle 1-2A discharge without holding up a decent voltage, they're end of life as far as I'm concerned as a device like a camera will shut off and chargers will usually reject them. More typical real life usage: You let it sit a few month. use them for a few cycles over a few days and repeat. After 30-40 real life cycles under those conditions, many cells become junk. 

The ones that were rejected by the charger right out of package were Sony rebadged Sanyo 2300 or 2500.


----------



## Viking

*Re: Just opened a new pack of old stock 2008 vitange eneloop. Still had a full charge*

Hi Bright+

Can you tell if the cells are CycleEnergy *Blue* ( blue printed cirkel ) , and made in Japan ?

They allegedly also have made CycleEnergy in other editions , like green for instance. And some of the cells ( blue edition included ) are made in China , that's the reason I ask.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Editing to show correct title of this thread.

Bill


----------



## ppsam

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Could anyone offer an opinion on whether this UK ebay listing is selling genuine eneloops? Seems pretty authentic, but the price is a bit low and the seller's feedback history...well, let's just say not what I'd have imagined from a battery trader.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Welcome to the Forum! :welcome:


----------



## ppsam

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



RI Chevy said:


> Welcome to the Forum! :welcome:




Thank you! It does seem like the place to be to discuss eneloops  I've been planning for ages to swap out most of my existing cells for a top brand of rechargeables and an intelligent charger on a budget, and finally getting round to it. Just ordered the Youshiko YC4000, which is a bit of a Technoline BC700 copy but has some positive reviews (haven't received it yet so can't verify), and lots of Sanyo/Pana eneloops. After reading the thread on Japanese vs Chinese manufacturing, the tropical ones seem to tick all the boxes. I'm hoping they're cheaper just because they're Summery and don't sell as well in the Winter!


----------



## samgab

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



ppsam said:


> Thank you! It does seem like the place to be to discuss eneloops  I've been planning for ages to swap out most of my existing cells for a top brand of rechargeables and an intelligent charger on a budget, and finally getting round to it. Just ordered the Youshiko YC4000, which is a bit of a Technoline BC700 copy but has some positive reviews (haven't received it yet so can't verify), and lots of Sanyo/Pana eneloops. After reading the thread on Japanese vs Chinese manufacturing, the tropical ones seem to tick all the boxes. I'm hoping they're cheaper just because they're Summery and don't sell as well in the Winter!



There's no way I could tell beyond any doubt without actually testing them, but they look legit to me.


----------



## FroggyTaco

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

TY Very Much for this reference chart!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

There is a new product on the EU market since November 2014: 
Panasonic Tropical *2100x* (instead of Sanyo Tropical *1800x*)

Sanyo Tropical blister pack EU has the part number HR-3UTGB-8BP TROPICAL (or HR-3UTGB8TPE) _Made in Japan_, whereas
Panasonic Tropical blister pack EU has the part number PHR3UTGB-8BP-TROPICAL (or ???) _Made in ???_.

So for the Europe sales area Panasonic Europe did not make the 4th gen Eneloop AA special editions Glamour Tones or Forest Tones available but instead released the 4th gen Eneloop AA special edition (again) as Tropical Tones.

Personally i prefer the Tropical Tones anyway because they come in 8 distinct colors and numbering, instead of mere 4.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



kreisl said:


> There is a new product on the EU market since November 2014:
> Panasonic Tropical *2100x* (instead of Sanyo Tropical *1800x*)
> 
> Sanyo Tropical blister pack EU has the part number HR-3UTGB-8BP TROPICAL (or HR-3UTGB8TPE) _Made in Japan_, whereas
> Panasonic Tropical blister pack EU has the part number PHR3UTGB-8BP-TROPICAL (or ???) _Made in ???_.
> 
> So for the Europe sales area Panasonic Europe did not make the 4th gen Eneloop AA special editions Glamour Tones or Forest Tones available but instead released the 4th gen Eneloop AA special edition (again) as Tropical Tones.
> 
> Personally i prefer the Tropical Tones anyway because they come in 8 distinct colors and numbering, instead of mere 4.



Thanks for the find! 
actually the code for the newest Tropical ones is BK-3MCCE/8PT 
the colors of the Tropical ones are very nice though... 

_Its quite strange and somewhat disturbing that they used the 70% rating on these (most probably) Chinese made cells. 
The 65% vs 70% was 1 thing easily noticeable. 
If they are indeed made in China, it gets more difficult to distinguish the Japan made cells from the Chinese made cells by just looking at the pictures._

I just found out that they have another 65% ones, which are definitely made in China.
So probably the 70% tropical ones are made in Japan... 
Can you buy them Kreisler? And take a picture of the backside?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

old vs new

Left: *Made in Japan 3rd generation* Right: *Made in (Japan?) 4th generation*
I think they now make 2 versions, 1 in China and 1 in Japan... 








Both say 70% after 5 years.
but this one below, is definitely made in China
65% and from a Chinese website




Backside of this 65% one, showing that its made in China


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



ChibiM said:


> Can you buy them Kreisler? And take a picture of the backside?


I am taking one for de team.

Expect to see my photo material within 1 week


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Thanks.. looking forward to it!


----------



## photonhoer

*Eneloop Gen1 vs Gen2*

Thread Merge - Norm

The last post on this I could find was in 2011, so I am asking for more recent experience/data:

If I have the option to keep/rely on Gen1 vs Gen2 envelops [1900mh types] – which are likely to be more reliable over the longer haul?

I have both [Gen1 dates 2006-07 & Gen2 dates 2011-12]. They have been lightly used, more often installed than drained and recharged. Is either version inherently more robust? I can imagine that the older the more likely to breakdown or fail, but I wonder if folks here have some experience or even [] data?

Thanks!!


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?364607-Overview-All-eneloop-batteries-2005-2014

Gen. 1s are good for 1000 cycles and the Gen. 2s are good for 1500 cycles. All things being equal, I'd opt for the Gen. 2s. 

Chris


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I'd go with the Gen 2, for a few reasons:

1. They're newer, so will have less years on them.
2. They're marketed as 1500 cycles, instead of 1000 cycles.
3. They're marketed as good down to -20C, rather than -10C (gen 1).

But I have 8.5 year old Gen 1 Eneloops, and they still have almost the same capacity as new Gen 3 Eneloops. So, I think you'll be okay with either.

Someone here tested some old Gen 1 against new Gen 4, and the cycle count was about double for the Gen 4. So, I think the cycle count is more than just a marketing thing. You might not get 1000/1500/1800/2100 cycles out of them, but you will get more out of the later generations. If you don't use them much, that probably doesn't matter, though.

For longevity, I would stay away from the high capacity XXX Eneloops. I doubt they will last as long (years or cycles) as the regular Eneloops. Jamming more capacity in cells usually results in earlier failures.


----------



## moozooh

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> For longevity, I would stay away from the high capacity XXX Eneloops. I doubt they will last as long (years or cycles) as the regular Eneloops. Jamming more capacity in cells usually results in earlier failures.



Of course they wouldn't last as long in terms of cycles (it's on the box), but otherwise they're eneloops just as well, using the same advanced technology and everything. Unless you have some sort of weird fetish keeping the same batteries for 6-7 years and not refreshing the stock under any circumstances, I wouldn't worry too much about longevity until you wear out the cycles. Sometimes you do need those extra 550 mAh.


----------



## Uncle_Tom

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I'm a 74yo nubee to all the latest battery technology. I Come from the Leyden jar, Manganese, Lead Acid, Alkaline era. Add wax dipped capacitors & 4 pin 01A vacuum tubes also.

I have been seeing lots of the Eneloop discussion and wonder just what it's all about? Sanyo Eneloops, Panasonic Eneloops, etc. Are they a WONDER NIMH? Why isn't a Eneloop branded Eneloop, instead of all the other different brands? Is Eneloop some kind of chemistry that's different than other NIMH batteries? Isn't there other NIMH batteries that are just as good? I bought some Tenergy 9V pre-charged that claim long shelf life and they seem to do a better job with a stun device than Alkaline. How do Tenergy AA & AAA compare with Eneloop's?

Can you help out this old Phart?


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



moozooh said:


> Of course they wouldn't last as long in terms of cycles (it's on the box), but otherwise they're eneloops just as well, using the same advanced technology and everything. Unless you have some sort of weird fetish keeping the same batteries for 6-7 years and not refreshing the stock under any circumstances, I wouldn't worry too much about longevity until you wear out the cycles. Sometimes you do need those extra 550 mAh.



Actually the Eneloop Pro's probably would last that long as well unless your draining them every other day. The 2000mAh Eneloops do quite well and they are more ideal for everyday usage. The extra 550 mAh is indeed useful but hardly necessary unless you absolutely need that extra capacity in a single amount of time, such as cameras. They can be beneficial in flashlights as well, but considering the price difference you would have to be pretty desperate to get extra capacity into a cell with reduced cycles. With that being said i only need the high capacity cells as extras or emergency batteries. Longevity matters to some people, besides the whole idea to have rechargeables is to use them over and over again.

You would get better longevity out of the 2000mAh Eneloops than the 2550mAh Pros. If people didn't care about longevity there would be no reason to have smart chargers with -dV. We'd simply just use the timer chargers and throw away batteries every year when they go bad. But since we do have smart chargers, maybe perhaps people do want their cells to last. It might seem crazy but 2100 cycles in which the battery will die of old age before the cycles get used up versus 500 cycles in which the battery will wear out quicker than the cell ages. So it's a pretty big difference and it could mean the difference between having a battery last 4 years or having one that lasts 8 years before the cycles are used up. I am one of those folks who prefer to get all i can out of NiMH batteries and i'll use crap batteries in low drain devices that work just fine, just the occasional recharge whenever needed.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



Uncle_Tom said:


> I have been seeing lots of the Eneloop discussion and wonder just what it's all about? Sanyo Eneloops, Panasonic Eneloops, etc. Are they a WONDER NIMH? Why isn't a Eneloop branded Eneloop, instead of all the other different brands? Is Eneloop some kind of chemistry that's different than other NIMH batteries? Isn't there other NIMH batteries that are just as good? I bought some Tenergy 9V pre-charged that claim long shelf life and they seem to do a better job with a stun device than Alkaline. How do Tenergy AA & AAA compare with Eneloop's?
> 
> Can you help out this old Phart?



"Are they a WONDER NIMH?" basically yes, the FDK factory (That manufacturers eneloops) has been on the forefront of NiMH technology for some years and makes the best NiMH battery available. At least if you are looking for low self discharge (Can stay charged for years when not used) and long life in a battery.

Eneloop are not easy to get in all parts of the world and because they are know to be a good brand they are also more expensive than many other brands.
The FDK factory producing the eneloop batteries has more capacity than eneloop requires and are using the remaining capacity to make batteries for other brands, usual using the same process as they do for eneloops. These other brands can be cheaper and can also be available in other parts of the world, this makes it very interesting to find them.

Note: The FDK factory is now owned by Fujitsu and Panasonic has moved part of the eneloop production to China and it looks like the Chinese factory cannot match the FDK quality.


----------



## Uncle_Tom

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Quote: "Note: The FDK factory is now owned by Fujitsu and Panasonic has moved part of the eneloop production to China and it looks like the Chinese factory cannot match the FDK quality."

Does this mean it would be a good idea to purchase discontinued Sanyo Eneloops to avoid Paney Chinese versions? I'm in USA and saw both offered on Amazon.


----------



## Viking

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I would say no. Including shipping cost the price difference to brand new 4th. generation japanese eneloops will be marginal.
Production date and generation improvement are also worth taken into account. Especially the first since nimh cells deteriorates over time , even when not in use. 

I don't know how old these discontinued sanyo cells would be.
But beware. The only two ads I took time to see on Amazon was respectively generation 1 and 2 cells , even though the image of one of the ads was of a generation 3 blister pack and was also sold as generation 3 :-(

I wouldn't worry too much about getting chinese cells if you are buying from an authorized dealer located in USA like amazon usa.
As far as I know chinese made cells has not yet been dispatched by amazon usa.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



Viking said:


> I would say no. Including shipping cost the price difference to brand new 4th. generation japanese eneloops will be marginal.
> Production date and generation improvement are also worth taken into account. Especially the first since nimh cells deteriorates over time , even when not in use.
> 
> I don't know how old these discontinued sanyo cells would be.
> But beware. The only two ads I took time to see on Amazon was respectively generation 1 and 2 cells , even though the image of one of the ads was of a generation 3 blister pack and was also sold as generation 3 :-(
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about getting chinese cells if you are buying from an authorized dealer located in USA like amazon usa.
> As far as I know chinese made cells has not yet been dispatched by amazon usa.



That's good to hear.


_


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

If you are registered at CPFMarketplace from before 1st December 2014, you can enter my give away to get a chance to win a free pack of *8*AA 4th gen. eneloop forest tones* (limited edition)
See THIS link for info and participation.


----------



## WDG

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



MidnightDistortions said:


> ...I am one of those folks who prefer to get all i can out of NiMH batteries and i'll use crap batteries in low drain devices that work just fine, just the occasional recharge whenever needed.



Ditto, here. My "good" Eneloops were put in service in December 2008, so, six years old, and going strong. My high-resistance 2007 Eneloops still serve well in low-amperage devices. Hard to bring myself to toss them when they're still useful.



Uncle_Tom said:


> ...I have been seeing lots of the Eneloop discussion and wonder just what it's all about?...



I find it easiest to describe them this way: Where normal NiMh cells are charge-to-use, Eneloops are use-then-charge. Because they maintain their charge in storage, you can use them more like you would use primary (alkaline) cells, without really having to worry much about them self-discharging on the shelf or in the device.

But wait, there's more: Eneloops have also been tested by members of this forum to stand up to more abuse than most other NiMh cells. If I recall correctly, they've been tested with loads as high as 10 amps, and held up well.

Plus, no worries about leakage, as is common with alkalines.

So, are they a "wonder cell?" Others may disagree, but I certainly think so.


----------



## Grijon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



WDG said:


> I find it easiest to describe them this way: Where normal NiMh cells are charge-to-use, Eneloops are use-then-charge. Because they maintain their charge in storage, you can use them more like you would use primary (alkaline) cells, without really having to worry much about them self-discharging on the shelf or in the device.



Extremely well said!


----------



## Uncle_Tom

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I certainly thank you all for your feedback to my earlier inquiry. Now I have to try figuring out what generation Eneloops are being sold, it's not always clearly stated. 

Reliability, capacity & LSD is my primary concern. Most AA & AAA batt's will be used in camera strobe lights, wireless remote triggers, wireless microphones & such. Majority of my flashlights use 14500, 18650 & 123a.

Should have done more research before I got suckered into buying low cost Chinese NMHI off eBay. I'm not a cheap-skate, but being on fixed income, saving a buck or two helps. Now, after reading the experiences of so many CPF members, I realize it probably wasn't a bargain after all. From now on, I'll buy Eneloop, until better options materialize.


----------



## Berneck1

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



Uncle_Tom said:


> I certainly thank you all for your feedback to my earlier inquiry. Now I have to try figuring out what generation Eneloops are being sold, it's not always clearly stated.
> 
> Reliability, capacity & LSD is my primary concern. Most AA & AAA batt's will be used in camera strobe lights, wireless remote triggers, wireless microphones & such. Majority of my flashlights use 14500, 18650 & 123a.
> 
> Should have done more research before I got suckered into buying low cost Chinese NMHI off eBay. I'm not a cheap-skate, but being on fixed income, saving a buck or two helps. Now, after reading the experiences of so many CPF members, I realize it probably wasn't a bargain after all. From now on, I'll buy Eneloop, until better options materialize.



That's not being a cheap-skate, you were just trying to save a buck. Nothing wrong with that. I would suggest, however, never to buy anything on eBay unless you are 100% sure on what you are buying, and the conditions under which you are buying them. 

As far as Eneloops, you really can't go wrong. You will find that the prices aren't much different from each generation. In some cases older generations cost a lot more for "designer wraps!" I would just buy the latest version. If you use them regularly the difference in cost will be nearly non-existent. Also, wait for holiday sales, etc. You can find them fairly cheap. 

Also, this is a matter of opinion, but I find the Eneloop "Pro" batteries don't really warrant such a premium. If you regularly take care of your Eneloops and keep them charged, you're just wasting your money. With the exception being a heavy use situation that would force you to swap out the batteries too often. Even then, I would weigh the pros/cons vs cost.




Sent from my iPad using Candlepowerforums


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



moozooh said:


> Of course they wouldn't last as long in terms of cycles (it's on the box), but otherwise they're eneloops just as well, using the same advanced technology and everything. Unless you have some sort of weird fetish keeping the same batteries for 6-7 years and not refreshing the stock under any circumstances, I wouldn't worry too much about longevity until you wear out the cycles. Sometimes you do need those extra 550 mAh.



Yup, I do keep my batteries for _more _than 6-7 years, and expect them to still perform well. While I do have plenty of newer Eneloops, I still use Eneloops that are now 8.5 years old, and they still have almost full original capacity when drained at 2 amps. Basically, these 8 year old Eneloops are still as good as new. I've probably put on about 200 cycles on them, so they're not approaching anywhere close to their 1000 cycle rating, but I expect most of my Eneloops will never approach 1000 cycles (or 2100 cycles for the newer ones). Most will probably see far less than 100 cycles, as they are used as replacements for alkalines where I change them about once per year.

I do expect my Eneloops to last well over 10 years before they start showing signs of age (like high internal resistance and reduced capacity). This is why I buy the regular Eneloops, and not the high capacity ones. I simply to not believe that in 10 years the high capacity Eneloops will perform anywhere near as well as the regular Eneloops, if they work at all.

My previous experience with high capacity (non LSD) cells is that they do not last anywhere near as long as lower capacity cells. Until I see proof that this does not apply with LSD cells, I'll continue to buy regular Eneloops.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



ChibiM said:


> Thanks.. looking forward to it!



well, some Polish youtuber beat me to it. one can see the backside of the package clearly and the marking on the batteries too:



The video proves that the Panasonic batteries are made in Japan (marking on battery and on retail package) and that they are 4th gen Eneloops (see model number labeling "BK-" and the "2100x" claim). The retail package costs ~19.95€ mas shipping, nice price and more convenient than importing 4th gen Forest Tones from the Japan imho.

When i get to it, i could post a HD photo of the batteries in the DC2-thread along with my sizable collection of battery round holders, cheers


----------



## mactavish

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

WDG above mentions the main reason I dumped all my Alkaline's: "leakage". This reason alone is why I decided to go all Eneloop in my home, and ALL my remote controls. Ever try to find and buy a remote for an older device, like TV, AVR, etc.? If you are lucky enough to find a replacement remote, the cost will usually shock you, and make the cost of switching to Eneloops, and a quality charger, a no brainer.


----------



## Uncle_Tom

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

When I said "Reliability, capacity & LSD is my primary concern", I should have added NO LEAKAGE! to front of list.


----------



## SaraAB87

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

The replacement remote for my TV is very cheap last I checked but since 2 LSD batteries will keep it running for a year or 2 on one charge without failure I prefer to go that route.


----------



## Phil2015

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I have just ordered these for my EA41 torch, I hope their not fake.......

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JZBX8DQ/


----------



## Grijon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



Phil2015 said:


> I have just ordered these for my EA41 torch, I hope their not fake.......
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JZBX8DQ/



They look legit to me...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



ChibiM said:


> Left: *Made in Japan 3rd generation* Right: *Made in (Japan?) 4th generation*
> I think they now make 2 versions, 1 in China and 1 in Japan...



EU retail packaging says Made In Japan on the backside. looks legit to me  (_click to engorgeous_):





16 fresh batteries sponsored for the DC2 project. Reference values provided by iCharger, UT61E, and MH-C9000. It's easy to distinguish the cells since they are numbered from #1 to #8 apart from their 8 different colors:





i like the white best


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I just got a couple of Eneloop chargers and i threw in a NiMH battery (non Eneloop) and i got a flashing light. Is it charging or is there a problem with the battery? Instruction manual doesn't really say much, i'm disappointed with that, but i don't know what that blinking light means.


----------



## Rosoku Chikara

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



MidnightDistortions said:


> I just got a couple of Eneloop chargers and i threw in a NiMH battery (non Eneloop) and i got a flashing light. Is it charging or is there a problem with the battery? Instruction manual doesn't really say much, i'm disappointed with that, but i don't know what that blinking light means.



I could not find the BQ-CC17 charger for sale in Japan. Based on appearance, it looks much like either a BQ-CC11 or BQ-CC21. The Japanese language instruction manuals for both of these models say the same thing in their "PROBLEM DIAGNOSIS" section:

PROBLEM: Charging indicator LED turns off immediately after charging begins, or the LED continues to flash. 

CAUSE1: You are mistakenly attempting to charge a dry (non-rechargeable) battery
SOLUTION: Don't attempt to recharge dry (non-rechargeable) batteries

CAUSE2: Your rechargeable battery has deteriorated
SOLUTION: Replace it with a new battery


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



MidnightDistortions said:


> I just got a couple of Eneloop chargers and i threw in a NiMH battery (non Eneloop) and i got a flashing light. Is it charging or is there a problem with the battery? Instruction manual doesn't really say much, i'm disappointed with that, but i don't know what that blinking light means.



On my BQCC17 charger, a flashing light indicates the cell has high internal resistance, and it won't be charged. It does this so you can't accidentally try to charge an alkaline battery. I have some old cells that do this on that charger. I can still charge them in my main smart charger, and also using a slow dumb charger. But they're only good for low-drain applications by the time they won't charge on the BQCC17.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



kreisl said:


> EU retail packaging says Made In Japan on the backside. looks legit to me  (_click to engorgeous_):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fresh batteries sponsored for the DC2 project. Reference values provided by iCharger, UT61E, and MH-C9000.



Thanks ,
So my earlier post was correct, the 4th gen tropicals are both made in Japan and China.
So people should be careful when they order tropicals. Better be sure they get the made in Japan ones.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



Rosoku Chikara said:


> I could not find the BQ-CC17 charger for sale in Japan. Based on appearance, it looks much like either a BQ-CC11 or BQ-CC21. The Japanese language instruction manuals for both of these models say the same thing in their "PROBLEM DIAGNOSIS" section:
> 
> PROBLEM: Charging indicator LED turns off immediately after charging begins, or the LED continues to flash.
> 
> CAUSE1: You are mistakenly attempting to charge a dry (non-rechargeable) battery
> SOLUTION: Don't attempt to recharge dry (non-rechargeable) batteries
> 
> CAUSE2: Your rechargeable battery has deteriorated
> SOLUTION: Replace it with a new battery





WalkIntoTheLight said:


> On my BQCC17 charger, a flashing light indicates the cell has high internal resistance, and it won't be charged. It does this so you can't accidentally try to charge an alkaline battery. I have some old cells that do this on that charger. I can still charge them in my main smart charger, and also using a slow dumb charger. But they're only good for low-drain applications by the time they won't charge on the BQCC17.



Thanks guys, i figured the battery was deteriorating. The battery will charge in the La Crosse charger. It doesn't appear the chargers instructions say what it was, but now i know.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Last call to enter my eneloop giveaway at CPFMarketplace. 
if you are a CPFMarketplace member from before December 1st 2014, you can join.. 
the giveaway will end soon. 
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...13#post4863813


----------



## Phil2015

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Ive recieved my 1900mAh Panasonic eneloop batts today. the date on the card says 03 2014 and says "made in japan" on each of the batts. I thought they were made in china now??


----------



## Grijon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



Phil2015 said:


> Ive recieved my 1900mAh Panasonic eneloop batts today. the date on the card says 03 2014 and says "made in japan" on each of the batts. I thought they were made in china now??



Only some of them; if you read around this forum you'll find lots of information about it!


----------



## Phil2015

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



Grijon said:


> Only some of them; if you read around this forum you'll find lots of information about it!



Ah,, I have read that the Japanese ones are better then the Chinese ones?


----------



## Grijon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



Phil2015 said:


> Ah,, I have read that the Japanese ones are better then the Chinese ones?



Check it out! :thumbsup:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nese-Vs-Chinese-Eneloop-Cycle-Testing-Results

For the first 250 cycles or so, I'd say you're fine either way.

As a consumer, I will be doing my best to only purchase the Japanese ones - not because I need the extra cycles, but because I want my dollars going towards the quality stuff in the hope that if enough people do the same thing, Panasonic will get the point that we want and will pay for quality.

And, well, I'll always take *value* over *bottom dollar*, so I'd prefer to have the Japanese ones for personal reasons, too, ha ha.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

The Chinese ones will probably be okay for typical users. They'll probably last okay for 5 years. However, I have Japanese Eneloops that are 8.5 years old and still show almost no drop in capacity. I expect they'll last well over 10 years, probably over 15. I doubt the Chinese ones will last anywhere close to as long as the Japanese ones. Again, for typical users that will buy new batteries to replace them every few years, probably not an issue.


----------



## Grijon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The Chinese ones will probably be okay for typical users. They'll probably last okay for 5 years. However, I have Japanese Eneloops that are 8.5 years old and still show almost no drop in capacity. I expect they'll last well over 10 years, probably over 15. I doubt the Chinese ones will last anywhere close to as long as the Japanese ones. Again, for typical users that will buy new batteries to replace them every few years, probably not an issue.



I'm thinking like you; for all but the ultra-heavy and/or power user, Chinese Eneloops should be fine. At one charge a week it'll be nearly 5 _years_ before any appreciable performance difference shows up, and the user will have gotten their money's worth several times over.

For a power user or enthusiast, I say all-Japanese all the way! Ha ha ha

I do still think it's a real shame that Panasonic has decided to trash the Eneloop name by putting it on a lower quality product, though.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



Grijon said:


> Check it out! :thumbsup:
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nese-Vs-Chinese-Eneloop-Cycle-Testing-Results
> 
> For the first 250 cycles or so, I'd say you're fine either way.
> 
> As a consumer, I will be doing my best to only purchase the Japanese ones - not because I need the extra cycles, but because I want my dollars going towards the quality stuff in the hope that if enough people do the same thing, Panasonic will get the point that we want and will pay for quality.
> 
> And, well, I'll always take *value* over *bottom dollar*, so I'd prefer to have the Japanese ones for personal reasons, too, ha ha.





WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The Chinese ones will probably be okay for typical users. They'll probably last okay for 5 years. However, I have Japanese Eneloops that are 8.5 years old and still show almost no drop in capacity. I expect they'll last well over 10 years, probably over 15. I doubt the Chinese ones will last anywhere close to as long as the Japanese ones. Again, for typical users that will buy new batteries to replace them every few years, probably not an issue.





Grijon said:


> I'm thinking like you; for all but the ultra-heavy and/or power user, Chinese Eneloops should be fine. At one charge a week it'll be nearly 5 _years_ before any appreciable performance difference shows up, and the user will have gotten their money's worth several times over.
> 
> For a power user or enthusiast, I say all-Japanese all the way! Ha ha ha
> 
> I do still think it's a real shame that Panasonic has decided to trash the Eneloop name by putting it on a lower quality product, though.



Most likely the difference would be minimal in real environmental conditions. However i agree with Grijon, i will do my best to only buy the Japanese ones . If i was forced to buy the Chinese ones, i'd probably just opt to get the Amazonbasics if Amazon decides to continue selling the Japanese brand (at least i think they are Japanese cells). Duracell and Energizer impresses me with their high capacity cells , i only wish they'd offer a deal if you get 2 packs of 4 or something.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Clearly, Fujitsu has nothing to do with the design or manufacturing of the "Fujitsu HR-3UTC" batteries.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



kreisl said:


> Clearly, Fujitsu has nothing to do with the design or manufacturing of the "Fujitsu HR-3UTC" batteries.



Except FDK is part of Fujitsu.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

okok

haha


----------



## Grijon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



HKJ said:


> Except FDK is part of Fujitsu.





kreisl said:


> okok
> 
> haha



lovecpf


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Kreisler, you are making it only more (unnecessarily) complicated with your "claims" for others. Please people, just ignore his post..

Just make your own new thread where you can discuss your claims/dreams/findings.
This is mainly about eneloop cells...Not your misunderstanding of different names and abbreviations.

I appreciate you looking into it, but please do some more research before posting those "truths".


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

oki


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Thanks kreisler


----------



## Phil2015

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Will my battery charger damage my new 1900mAh eneloop batteries

Energizer Universal battery charger: Charges at 650mA, Delta V Detection and Max Timer Control (turns off after 5hrs)


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

You will probably be OK with that charger, but you should invest in a smart charger. Much better option for the Eneloop cells.


----------



## Phil2015

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



RI Chevy said:


> You will probably be OK with that charger, but you should invest in a smart charger. Much better option for the Eneloop cells.



Is the charge rate ok, or should it be lower?


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Charge rate is ok. 750mA to 1A is ok too.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



RI Chevy said:


> You will probably be OK with that charger, but you should invest in a smart charger. Much better option for the Eneloop cells.



It does delta V, so it is a smart charger. It should be fine. Only other thing to make sure is that it does independent channel charging. That is, you can charge 1 or 2 cells, and the charger will terminate them individually (not in pairs).


----------



## Phil2015

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> It does delta V, so it is a smart charger. It should be fine.


Ah thats good to know, I see that some chargers monitors the temperature of the batteries too?



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Only other thing to make sure is that it does independent channel charging. That is, you can charge 1 or 2 cells, and the charger will terminate them individually (not in pairs).



I know that the charger will only charge in pairs, but has a display to show the charge of each battery, so does this mean it should individually stop the batteries from charging?


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Phil2015 said:


> Ah thats good to know, I see that some chargers monitors the temperature of the batteries too?



Yes, some smart chargers are smarter than others. There are a number of ways to detect end-of-charge, but IMO delta-V is the best and is usually the one that gives you a reliable end-of-charge with the most charge put into the battery.



> I know that the charger will only charge in pairs, but has a display to show the charge of each battery, so does this mean it should individually stop the batteries from charging?



I'm not so sure it will only charge in pairs, based on that description. My bet is that it will charge single batteries. It looks like it does detect end-of-charge for individual cells, which is good. Sometimes this requires putting cells in certain charging spots, and it may require you to only charge 2 batteries at a time.

However, charging in pairs isn't necessarily bad, as long as you always use those cells as pairs in your device. Eneloops are pretty consistent with their capacity, so using and charging in pairs should be okay. Once in awhile, charge them separately.

Oh, once other thing to note. This charger uses a trickle charge after it completes the main charge. This is bad for Eneloops, so don't leave the batteries in the charger for long periods of time after they finish charging. When they're done, take them out.


----------



## Viking

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Phil2015 said:


> I know that the charger will only charge in pairs, but has a display to show the charge of each battery, so does this mean it should individually stop the batteries from charging?



No unfortunately not.
The concept of a pair charger is that two cells are sharing the same charging channel. This makes it impossible to stop charging one cell , while continue with the other.

This isn't a major issue as long as you are keeping track of the cells , and don't have any devices using odd numbers of cells either.

Issues first really starts to occur when charging cells that aren't roughly at the same state of charge. However Ironically a pair charger often force you to do just that.

E.g. if a device has drained 3 cells , the two cells are easy enough to pair.
But unless you happen to have another approximately fully drained cell lying around , you can be forced to use a cell in a different state of charge as charging partner for the third cell.

Since a pair charger usually compensates for some differences within the pair by overcharging one cell , the state of charge doesn't have to be precisely the same for fully charging both cells. But the state of charge should be roughly the same.

However all differences in state of charge can be equalised by using trickle charge.


----------



## Phil2015

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Thanks guys, I thought my charger would be a total no, no as I think I only paid about £15 for it a few years ago. Im using the eneloop batts in my EA41 torch, so all 4 batts should discharge at the same rate.


----------



## nunz

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

For the model names (numbers) of the latest eneloop batteries, I wonder if the table found at the link below gives the best picture as of January 2015.
http://www.panasonic-eneloop.eu/eneloop-products/eneloop-batteries.html


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

*What charger should I use with my eneloop batteries?

Will my charger work with eneloops?

Whats the best charger for eneloops?*

Lets ask your questions and give advice in the dedicated "chargers for Eneloops" thread... 
*
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?395695-Eneloops-what-charger-do-I-need&p=4579062#post4579062*


----------



## Phil2015

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Phil2015 said:


> Thanks guys, I thought my charger would be a total no, no as I think I only paid about £15 for it a few years ago. Im using the eneloop batts in my EA41 torch, so all 4 batts should discharge at the same rate.



I am just recharging the 4 eneloop batts for the first time, and all 4 seemed to be charging at the same time, but then 2 of the batts went up another notch on the display, about 10mins before the other 2 went up. Id thought the EA41 torch would drain the batts equally, or maybe the 4 batts wasn't at the same capacity from new


----------



## Phil2015

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Well its taken about 3-4 hrs to charge the eneloops and I have left it to trickle charge for 30mins extra, to make sure they are charged properly.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



kreisl said:


> It's easy to distinguish the cells since they are numbered from #1 to #8 apart from their 8 different colors:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i like the white best





DevilyWan88 said:


> just want to share with u guys, bought these at my local store (Malaysia).



Thanks a million DevilyWan88 for providing the first *photographic proof* of white Chinese Eneloops on the WWW. Welcome on the forum, and Happy New Year! :welcome:


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

Interesting. and thanks for the pictures. 
What happened to the AAA cells? looks like its wearing shorts


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

chinese fashion from the spring '05 collection. quite sexy, preparing for the hot days


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

The thing I don`t understand is that it shows EU above the trash bin.
and the ones made in Japan also show EU above the trash bin. Plus both have the same coding. BK 3MCC*E*.
I really hoped they coded them differently... :ironic:


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*

I just cracked open a 2-year old pack of Gen 3 Eneloops (dated March 2013), to see how the charge is holding up.

While I don't have a very accurate way of determining absolute capacity numbers, I did run them in two well-regulated lights to see how long they lasted.

The lights used were 4sevens Quarks, a QP2A (2xAA with an XP-G2 emitter) and a QP2A-X (2xAA with an XM-L2 emitter), both running on "high" (about 102 lumens for the QP2A, and 138 lumens for the QP2A-X, according to 4sevens).

I timed them from turning them on, to when the light dropped out of regulation. At this point, the cells measured about 0.9v-1.0v, but recovered to almost 1.2v after a couple of hours resting. My times are accurate to within about 0.05 hours.

Out of package (2 years old):
QP2A: 3.5 hours
QP2A-X: 2.5 hours

After 1 charge:
QP2A: 5.05 hours
QP2A-X: 3.5 hours

After 2 charges:
QP2A: 5.2 hours
QP2A-X: 3.62 hours


If we assume 2 charges reaches full capacity (it's probably getting close, if not there completely, based on other timings I've done with different Eneloops), this corresponds to a capacity as follows (accurate within 1.5%):

Out of package (2 years old):
Measurement 1: 67%
Measurement 2: 69%

After 1 charge:
Measurement 1: 97%
Measurement 2: 97%

After 2 charges:
Measurement 1: 100%
Measurement 2: 100%


So, about 68% capacity after almost 2 years in the package. This is no surprise, since Sanyo/Panasonic only charges them up to 75% according to others. But it's plenty of capacity that you can use them right out of the package, which is what I often do.

After 1 cycle, they get within 3% of full capacity. I don't think there's any need to cycle these several times to "restore" them. You can cycle them if you want to squeeze another 3%, but it's probably not worth it. Just charge them up the first time, or use them right out of the package if you don't mind starting with a partial charge.


Update:

I ran another cycle. No improvement in capacity. Looks like 2 cycles are all you need to bring Eneloops to full capacity. (1 cycle to charge them initially, then 1 more to get another 3% capacity out of them. IMO, I wouldn't bother with the 2nd cycle, since you'll eventually recharge them again after you use them.)

Some of that 3% extra capacity might be some extra surface charge, from using them soon after charging them. From another test I've done, it appears that Eneloops retain about 2% more charge if you use them within hours of charging, compared to about a week later. It seems that they self-discharge about 2% within a week, before settling down to a very slow self-discharge.

So, if I had to speculate, I'd say that the 2nd cycle really only added 1% or 2%.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Very nice. Thanks for doing this for us. 
I bought a pack of AA and AAA Gen 4 cells in an 8 pack. I can't find any dates at all on packaging. Any insight on this?


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



RI Chevy said:


> Very nice. Thanks for doing this for us.
> I bought a pack of AA and AAA Gen 4 cells in an 8 pack. I can't find any dates at all on packaging. Any insight on this?



There will be date codes etched into the cells, not on the packaging. They are not printed, but are stamped, so they are very difficult to see. It's easiest if you take a flashlight and shine it at a shallow angle along the edge of the cells. They'll stand out a bit better that way. Once you find them, look at the first post of this thread on how to interpret them.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Thank you sir.


----------



## ScottJD

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I found these at my local Costco the other day. I usually run Li-Ion but the price was good for $23 and wanted to see what all the hype was about with these eneloop. It came with the advanced charger so I can charge one cell at a time. 10 AA min 1900mah and 4 AAA 800mah. The AA's are made in Japan with the code of BK-3MCCA.






I already had a lot of the Royavac IC3 15 min fast charging 2000mah batteries. But they are pushing 7 to 10 years old for some of them. Then I decided to see all the batteries I have and chargers, I need to recycle the old ones and and fake Li-Ion ones that came with cheap lights and laser pointers. I guess I need more lights for these batteries. 





I think ink I have enought chargers also, but now after seeing how the eneloop batteries perform I may want to buy the fast charger. 





So so after doing some performance testing of the eneloop AA cells on my hobby charger with a 1A discharge rate while monitoring the voltage I can say I was impressed. Especialy how the cell kept the voltage steady for %95 of the discharge.
as for fast charging, what is the most amperage these eneloops can take when fast charging?


----------



## joshjp

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Hey guys i have a question, i have the Panasonic Eneloop Pro AAA, and after i charge them, 3 weeks later there at 1.35volts, i thought they are supposed to retain close to there inital charge after 1 year?


----------



## Power Me Up

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



joshjp said:


> Hey guys i have a question, i have the Panasonic Eneloop Pro AAA, and after i charge them, 3 weeks later there at 1.35volts, i thought they are supposed to retain close to there inital charge after 1 year?



That's quite normal. Open circuit voltage isn't a very good indicator of remaining capacity for NiMH cells.


----------



## joshjp

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Power Me Up said:


> That's quite normal. Open circuit voltage isn't a very good indicator of remaining capacity for NiMH cells.


Ohh ok i didnt know that, is there something i can read on about that?.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



joshjp said:


> Hey guys i have a question, i have the Panasonic Eneloop Pro AAA, and after i charge them, 3 weeks later there at 1.35volts, i thought they are supposed to retain close to there inital charge after 1 year?





joshjp said:


> Ohh ok i didnt know that, is there something i can read on about that?.



The best way to get the remaining capacity reading is to discharge the cell using a smart charger. While voltage is not a very good indicator a healthy cell that is optimally good and fully charged will have a rough baseline of..

1.32v or higher - fully charged
1.29v - 75% charged
1.26v - 50% charged
1.23v - 25% charged
1.20v or lower - empty

Note that this isn't always accurate, but i go by that when i think i need to recharge my cells before they hit below 1.20 volts. If you want a more accurate reading, discharging the cell and getting the mAh reading at the end is what you want.


----------



## joshjp

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



MidnightDistortions said:


> The best way to get the remaining capacity reading is to discharge the cell using a smart charger. While voltage is not a very good indicator a healthy cell that is optimally good and fully charged will have a rough baseline of..
> 
> 1.32v or higher - fully charged
> 1.29v - 75% charged
> 1.26v - 50% charged
> 1.23v - 25% charged
> 1.20v or lower - empty
> 
> Note that this isn't always accurate, but i go by that when i think i need to recharge my cells before they hit below 1.20 volts. If you want a more accurate reading, discharging the cell and getting the mAh reading at the end is what you want.


Thanks a bunch for that info, i use the Nitecore D4 charger, i use the low setting to charge them, as if i dont then thr batts get hot, and i hear that when there getting jot it cqn mess them up, but now i will wait untill they get lower to charge them.


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

@ScottJD

Does the Eneloop charger from Costco have a LED indicator to know if the cell is finished charging or is still charging?

My old 1 had individual LEDs on top of each bay.

Thanks!


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



BloodLust said:


> @ScottJD
> 
> Does the Eneloop charger from Costco have a LED indicator to know if the cell is finished charging or is still charging?
> 
> My old 1 had individual LEDs on top of each bay.
> 
> Thanks!



If you're referring to the BQ-CC17 there is individual LED indicators on the bottom that come up green for each cell. If the light flashes it usually means either you are trying to charge an alkaline cell or a cell that has High Internal Resistance.


----------



## koala

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I needed a set of AAA so I broke open a new package of 4x Eneloop AAA datecode 08-11 purchased year 2009 and these are the discharge results.

Discharged with MAHA C9000, @400mA
569mA
558mA
566mA
564mA

Not sure how much was filled at the factory but after more than 6 years the AAA still holds some charge.


----------



## Phil2015

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Shame they dont do a D size cell, because Im thinking to buy my dad a led lenser p17.2 torch for his birthday?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Phil2015 said:


> Shame they dont do a D size cell, because Im thinking to buy my dad a led lenser p17.2 torch for his birthday?


They have D cells! Although they probably contain 3 AA size batteries, with a total capacity of 5700mAh. 
Those D cells are only available in Japan.


----------



## N8N

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Phil2015 said:


> Shame they dont do a D size cell, because Im thinking to buy my dad a led lenser p17.2 torch for his birthday?



If you don't have a high current draw application, you could always use these

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ot-World-Electric-Fan-quot-eBay-cell-adapters

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...lel-adapters&p=4333888&highlight=#post4333888

unfortunately I'm not aware of a regular retail channel in the USA, but the "World Electric Fan" seller on eBay was easy to deal with.


----------



## batt3ry

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Hi guys, after reading through the lengthy thread on eneloops and possible fakes going around, I was trying to find a reliable source of supply for AAA Lite version. There was once a seller shipping internationally from Tokyo in this forum, but has since stopped sales. Where else can I get a reliable seller that can ship to Singapore/Malaysia? Or are there recommended local stores that I can visit for good prices? 

Thank you!


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



batt3ry said:


> Hi guys, after reading through the lengthy thread on eneloops and possible fakes going around, I was trying to find a reliable source of supply for AAA Lite version. There was once a seller shipping internationally from Tokyo in this forum, but has since stopped sales. Where else can I get a reliable seller that can ship to Singapore/Malaysia? Or are there recommended local stores that I can visit for good prices?
> 
> Thank you!


Hi, sorry, I don`t sell batteries anymore..only in large amounts.....50+
other places are probably ebay... but you wont know if you are getting real ones.


----------



## Stephen2010

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I like the generation 1 and generation 2,generation 3.

The eneloop have been panasonic, then the generation 4 come out.

From the discharge curve, the 4th is not good as the 3rd.

Eneloop hold the core technology, the panasonic have not in NI-MH battery.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Welcome to the Forum! :welcome:


----------



## batt3ry

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Hi guys,

I just bought 2 x 2 AAA Eneloop Lite batteries (latest generation) from an eBay seller that seems to be based in Japan. I would like to verify the authenticity of these batteries - hope the gurus here can help!






On another related note - does removing the battery from its vacuum sealed pack make the batteries discharge faster? Or is there no difference at all? 

Thanks!


----------



## batt3ry

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

More pictures here:


----------



## xrM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



batt3ry said:


> Hi guys, after reading through the lengthy thread on eneloops and possible fakes going around, I was trying to find a reliable source of supply for AAA Lite version. There was once a seller shipping internationally from Tokyo in this forum, but has since stopped sales. Where else can I get a reliable seller that can ship to Singapore/Malaysia? Or are there recommended local stores that I can visit for good prices?
> 
> Thank you!



I have seen them on Qoo10.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

batt3r, you might want to consider changing the file size of those pictures.. it slows down the page a lot..


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> batt3r, you might want to consider changing the file size of those pictures.. it slows down the page a lot..



Batt3ry, resize images to 800X800 max.

Bill


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Does a two bay AAA charger exist? I know there is a two bay AA charger, as well as a 4 bay 2 AA + 2 AAA model...


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Do you mean a dedicated AAA charger only? 
As far as I know, they don`t exist/havent existed.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Not sure why you would only want an AAA charger. AA are a bit more common so usually if you are looking for an AAA charger, the AA charging slots are included.


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Do you mean a dedicated AAA charger only?
> As far as I know, they don`t exist/havent existed.



Correct. Not interested in AA. Bummer that they haven't been built. 

Who do you recommend to buy Pro's from now that you aren't selling any more?


----------



## lemlux

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I just bought my first 8 eneloop pro aa's after years of using regular eneloops. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised to discover that the Pros are typically 14.4mm wide compared to the 14.2 mm of the regulars. That makes the pros a tight fit in many of my aa lights and too tight for others. I'm particularly disappointed that aa Pros won't fit into the 6aa 6P, 12aa 6P2S, and 18aa 6P3S battery holders for my Fivemega elephants that are 1, 2, and 3 cells high, respectively. [email protected] pros are uncomfortably snug in my Nitecore EAX and I often need to shake the first cell or two out.

Time has reduced the number of my Rayovac 1800 aa's that I haven't tossed down to 2. These cells were 13.95 mm or less wide and were the last rechargeables that I could fit into an ummodified Mag D body in 4-wide holders.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

The specifications allows up to 14.5 mm in diameter.


----------



## lemlux

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Thanks, HKJ. Unfortunately hardware manufacturer's seem to snugly size battery compartments so that they'll hold the common batteries dimensions of the day rather than how large the cells could be at the spec max.

Another example of sizing issues are on lights built for CR123's. I can fit some of my protected 17670's and 17650's into some. For those that won't fit protected cells I can fit some unprotected 17670's. My older unprotected Panasonic 17670's are only 16.4mm wide and seem to fit all. As I retire older cells I'm moving to the Sanyo 16650's - (Thank you Vapes!)

I remember how happy I was the day I discovered I could fit CR123's into the barrels of Energizer double barreled lights if I removed the plastic sleeve for AA's.


----------



## markr6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I thought this was interesting. All 3rd gen AA Eneloops stored in a backpack in my Jeep for about 18 months. All fully charged. One kept in an L10, Zebralight H51w (locked out w/ cap loosened, and one just in a plastic case. All cells saw the same amount of use (not much) before placed in the pack. I didn't use these cells AT ALL after putting them in the backpack.

Here's how much mAh each took. I know there may be some technical stuff I'm overlooking, NiMH's getting "overcharged", efficiency, etc. But it still doesn't make sense that the one in the case lost the most. NO IDEA why the H51w lost so much compared to the L10 if it was physically locked out.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



markr6 said:


> Here's how much mAh each took. I know there may be some technical stuff I'm overlooking, NiMH's getting "overcharged", efficiency, etc. But it still doesn't make sense that the one in the case lost the most. NO IDEA why the H51w lost so much compared to the L10 if it was physically locked out.



Interesting. The discrepancy between the cells doesn't make sense if all were locked out, and mostly fresh when put in storage. (Assuming they're all about the same age and had the same usage on them.) Since this was a "charge" reading, it might just be differences in when the charger detected the end-of-charge. A much better analysis would have been to do a discharge test, which would give you a much more accurate reading of the remaining capacity.


----------



## markr6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I understand the discharge would have been more accurate, but these were all charged at the same rate and all terminated at 1.49v. Strange!


----------



## ponkan

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

First 4 eneloops that I break-in using the maha c9000 resulted in the following values: 2547mah, 2523mah, 2550mah, and 2512mah. The last one has the "least" capacity result (98.5% of rated cap), though it is still way above the minimum rated capacity. Extremely thrilled by the results and now waiting for the next 4 break-ins. Even though each pack cost $19, I feel that it is a great investment as it might exceed my usage scenarios within my lifetime. Possibly even my children's lifetime. I know my 4th gen eneloops will definitely be past on to the next generation . 
I hope everyone enjoys the photos 






















































P































​

Last edited by ponkan; 05-29-2015 at 05:23 PM.​


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Beautiful share ponkan thanks!
I also have good looking Eneloops and a set of Powertraveller AA's. I mostly use my batteries for testing chargers, not for testing batteries :devil:

:wave:


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

ponkan: Where did you purchase your 5th generations and do they offer a 5th gen AAA Pro?


----------



## ponkan

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I bought mine in NCIX. They sell AAA as well, and comparatively cheap compared to other stores here in Vancouver. 



bmstrong said:


> ponkan: Where did you purchase your 5th generations and do they offer a 5th gen AAA Pro?


----------



## ponkan

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Besides using them in my flashlight, I also bought them as a powerbank using my nomad 7 solar kit and/or powertraveller powerchimp 4a. 
Interesting enough, using four 2300mah nimh, I'm able to charge my Sony Xperia Z1 from 0% to 50% capacity. Though modern lithium-ion powerpack of the same footprint as my 4AA charger/powerbank can charge my phone at a higher capacity, the reliability and long storage life of the latest LSD nimh far surpasses the lithium counterpart imho. Moreover, I think you're less likely to experience a catastrophic explosion from a nimh compared to a lithium ion battery. 



kreisl said:


> Beautiful share ponkan thanks!
> I also have good looking Eneloops and a set of Powertraveller AA's. I mostly use my batteries for testing chargers, not for testing batteries :devil:
> 
> :wave:


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

@ponkan,Not 5th generation!
These are referred to as the 4 th generation (product code wise), not 5th.


----------



## ponkan

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

@ChibiM

Thanks for the heads up. Made the necessary changes. I'll check my previous overview of the regular eneloop to change the description.


----------



## FG68

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



bmstrong said:


> Does a two bay AAA charger exist? I know there is a two bay AA charger, as well as a 4 bay 2 AA + 2 AAA model...



There is a 2 bay charger that does AA and AAA and it uses 5V USB voltage that plugs in to any USB source - it works with my 5V ANKER solar panel.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



FG68 said:


> There is a 2 bay charger that does AA and AAA and it uses 5V USB voltage that plugs in to any USB source - it works with my 5V ANKER solar panel.



Thanks FG68, I think he told he wants a dedicated AAA charger. There are plenty of AA/AAA chargers out there. 
As far as I remember, there are no AAA dedicated sanyo/panasonic chargers


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ponkan said:


> First 4 eneloops that I break-in using the maha c9000 resulted in the following values: 2547mah, 2523mah, 2550mah, and 2512mah. The last one has the "least" capacity result (98.5% of rated cap), though it is still way above the minimum rated capacity. Extremely thrilled by the results and now waiting for the next 4 break-ins. Even though each pack cost $19, I feel that it is a great investment as it might exceed my usage scenarios within my lifetime. Possibly even my children's lifetime. I know my 4th gen eneloops will definitely be past on to the next generation .
> I hope everyone enjoys the photos
> 
> [...]
> ​




Actually the last one i consider it to be within Eneloop specs as the minimum is 2450mAh, anything over the minimum capacity i consider over 100% capacity, though others may feel the 2550mAh is the number to go by. Glad you are liking the Eneloops :thumbsup:. I still want to get an 8 pack of AA Eneloop Pros (already got the AAA ones) but i'm waiting awhile since i don't want to have all my batteries near the same date (all the Eneloops i have are from 2014) and eventually when my regular NiMH cells degrade to the point where they can only really be used in low drain devices i'll be getting a 12 pack of AAA Eneloops and maybe then i might get some AA Pros. I see your sporting the Goal Zero batteries though, so far those have been working great with my Goal Zero Guide 10+ usb/charging unit for charging my cellphone, but i generally recharge those in the C9000 since i know it's reliable in properly charging LSD cells.​


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I don't look at the typical rating anymore. Only to the minimum rating.
Mainly because all eneloops in Japan have only the minimum capacity shown...they stopped the typical mAh a while ago. Eneloops are the best..
And as someone else said : "Japanese eneloops that is"


----------



## Almighty1

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I was just looking at the Enerloop XX AA's I received from target.com on March 18, 2014 which is labeled still as Sanyo and not Panasonic even though the receipt says Panasonic as well as their website. Basically, it seems like I was sent 5 packs of the HR-3UWXA4A AA 4 pack and 9 packs of the HR-3UWXA8A which is is 8 pack AA. So the charts in the first posts of the thread about it being sold in China is not correct as it was sold in the US as well. Are these actually any good as I still have not opened or charged them yet due to trying to find a charger of which I just ordered a Opus BT-C3100 v2.2 from gearbest.com yesterday which will arrive in 5-10 weeks (25-50 business days) which was just shipped today. or should I look at giving these away to friends and then buy the latest generation instead since it seems like these have a lower minimum capacity and also it holds less capacity of the charge after one year. These are made in Japan and from what I can tell. The 4 packs seems to be made in the 45th week of 2008 while the 8 packs were made in the 7th week of 2014.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Almighty1 said:


> These are made in Japan and from what I can tell. The 4 packs seems to be made in the 45th week of 2008 while the 8 packs were made in the 7th week of 2004.



If you see "Made In Japan" on the cells, then they're good Eneloops. I think you have read the date stamp wrong, though. Eneloops didn't come out until 2006, and there were only 1st gen cells around in 2008.

The other possibility is you got some bad fakes. But that's unlikely from a major retailer.


----------



## WarRaven

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

My local DC supplier said Panasonic bought Sanyo not long ago.
Idk if true, but that may be why.


----------



## Almighty1

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> If you see "Made In Japan" on the cells, then they're good Eneloops. I think you have read the date stamp wrong, though. Eneloops didn't come out until 2006, and there were only 1st gen cells around in 2008.
> 
> The other possibility is you got some bad fakes. But that's unlikely from a major retailer.



These are made in Japan... You are right I read the date stamp wrong as basically I was looking at the number on the white sticker on the cardboard boxes that each type came in as the box is for a Qty 10 of the 4 packs and Qty 5 of the 8 packs. I just took a look and saw 13-04, 13-10 and 13-09Y S timestamps based on randomly picking a pack so they were made in 2013. I actually thought it was 7th week of 2014 as it's 14007 on the sticker on the box, I typed 2004 by accident but the 14007 and the 80045 is basically I guess the item number as it corresponds to the second set of numbers in the UPC bar code. I was just hoping they did not sell old stock as you can't tell from target.com if the current ones are 3rd or 4th generation. It just seems like I would have been better off with the 3rd or 4th generation as the capacity is higher as the min and typical are both 50mAh higher and retains more energy (85% vs 75%) after 1 year. I know I don't have fakes but is there much difference between 2nd gen and 3rd/4th gen in real world usage since it seems one will drain more unused from what I can tell. The other thing is that the 4 packs were supposed to be AAA as both the invoice and target.com had AAA Enerloop XX's but for some reason, they shipped AA's instead. I just like to get XX's instead of the LSD version because I sometimes borrow batteries from devices to use in other devices which can be high drain. I actually didn't know when Eneloops came out as all I remember was in the 1980s, Sanyo and GE were in some sort of partnership making NiCd's which were the first rechargeables I bought and it was easy to make the batteries spark or smoke. Panasonic's seems to be better in that regard when I visited Toronto, Canada in 1987 as it seems more sealed but neither of those batteries lasted long. I had Energizer's NiCD's too that I bought in 1994 in the yellow wrapper and those batteries today seem to be leaking on their own after not being used for a few years. Then I bought the MAHA C-204F charger with the MAHA 1550MaH AA batteries in I think 1999 or the early 2000's which I am still using today but I want to avoid putting Eneloops in there so I'll start using the Eneloops later on. I still have some Duracell 1000mAh AAA's and forgot the capacity AA's from 2009 and earlier which is stored in one of the moving boxes so will need to find them and make use of them as well so that I will probably end up with Eneloops only at the end.


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Thanks FG68, I think he told he wants a dedicated AAA charger. There are plenty of AA/AAA chargers out there.
> As far as I remember, there are no AAA dedicated sanyo/panasonic chargers



I agree. Unfortunately.

Where does everyone get Pro's in the US? I only need two AAA Pro's. I only see 4 packs and I want to make sure I don't get any fakes...


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



FG68 said:


> There is a 2 bay charger that does AA and AAA and it uses 5V USB voltage that plugs in to any USB source - it works with my 5V ANKER solar panel.



Can you post the model you use? Thanks.


----------



## Almighty1

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



WarRaven said:


> My local DC supplier said Panasonic bought Sanyo not long ago.
> Idk if true, but that may be why.



They bought majority of the shares in 2009 and the remaining shares in 2010. I know Sanyo OS-CON polymer capacitors have been rebranded as Panasonic as I replaced one a few months ago. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanyo

http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/22/pa...ts-the-worlds-largest-plasma-panel-plant-now/


----------



## WarRaven

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Almighty1 said:


> They bought majority of the shares in 2009 and the remaining shares in 2010. I know Sanyo OS-CON polymer capacitors have been rebranded as Panasonic as I replaced one a few months ago.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanyo
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/22/pa...ts-the-worlds-largest-plasma-panel-plant-now/


Cheers, thanks for additional information. 
It's always nice to know where things overlap even if just by name.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Panasonic announced recently Eneloops can now hold a charge of 70% for up to 10 years. http://shop.panasonic.com/about-us-.../05132015-eneloop-rechargeable-batteries.html
Packaging has already been updated to state this and we should see this slowly trickle to US retailers over the next few months. Panasonic Japan's website still does not show this "increase". http://panasonic.net/energy/battery/us/eneloop/
*
Product numbers of the actual cells have not been changed as far as I could tell.*

Is this far fetched? Maybe. Could this be a prelude to a "5th generation"? Who knows!

accumulator on the *other* forum mentioned a couple of weeks ago, that he had found an unopened package for 1st generation AA eneloops with an April 2006 date code. His findings of the two cells from the package showed 72% and 73% I also recently got a pair of 1st generation AA eneloops with a February 2008 date code. It came with the NC-MQH03 charger set from Singapore. I don't have the fancy ZTS battery tester yet nor do I have the good Maha or La Crosse chargers to check this accurately yet. But, my cheapie Delkin tester showed 3 out of 5 lights. Not bad at all! I've decided not to touch them yet and will wait to test these for real on my friend's La Crosse BC-1000 charger to get definitive results.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Almighty1 said:


> I was just looking at the Enerloop XX AA's I received from target.com on March 18, 2014 which is labeled still as Sanyo and not Panasonic even though the receipt says Panasonic as well as their website. Basically, it seems like I was sent 5 packs of the HR-3UWXA4A AA 4 pack and 9 packs of the HR-3UWXA8A which is is 8 pack AA. So the charts in the first posts of the thread about it being sold in China is not correct as it was sold in the US as well. Are these actually any good as I still have not opened or charged them yet due to trying to find a charger of which I just ordered a Opus BT-C3100 v2.2 from gearbest.com yesterday which will arrive in 5-10 weeks (25-50 business days) which was just shipped today. or should I look at giving these away to friends and then buy the latest generation instead since it seems like these have a lower minimum capacity and also it holds less capacity of the charge after one year. These are made in Japan and from what I can tell. The 4 packs seems to be made in the 45th week of 2008 while the 8 packs were made in the 7th week of 2004.



Thanks for the info.. thanks for also looking into the details.. nice to get some more information. 
Do you perhaps have some pictures of one of the packages, with the code written on it? 
As far as I could see, the A version was sold in Asia, so they might have imported them.. just curious!
thanks


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> Panasonic announced recently Eneloops can now hold a charge of 70% for up to 10 years. http://shop.panasonic.com/about-us-.../05132015-eneloop-rechargeable-batteries.html Packaging has already been updated to state this and we should see this slowly trickle to US retailers over the next few months. Panasonic Japan's website still does not show this "increase". http://panasonic.net/energy/battery/us/eneloop/ *Product numbers of the actual cells have not been changed as far as I could tell.* Is this far fetched? Maybe. Could this be a prelude to a "5th generation"? Who knows! accumulator on the *other* forum mentioned a couple of weeks ago, that he had found an unopened package for 1st generation AA eneloops with an April 2006 date code. His findings of the two cells from the package showed 72% and 73% I also recently got a pair of 1st generation AA eneloops with a February 2008 date code. It came with the NC-MQH03 charger set from Singapore. I don't have the fancy ZTS battery tester yet nor do I have the good Maha or La Crosse chargers to check this accurately yet. But, my cheapie Delkin tester showed 3 out of 5 lights. Not bad at all! I've decided not to touch them yet and will wait to test these for real on my friend's La Crosse BC-1000 charger to get definitive results.




Wow, 70% for 10 years? That's impressive. I'm more curious to see what is the general lifespan of Eneloops (not cycles but years from seldom usage) I know traditional NiMHs degrade over time but i've been curious to see how long it takes for Eneloops to 'age' into a irreversible state when they degrade.


----------



## Almighty1

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Thanks for the info.. thanks for also looking into the details.. nice to get some more information.
> Do you perhaps have some pictures of one of the packages, with the code written on it?
> As far as I could see, the A version was sold in Asia, so they might have imported them.. just curious!
> thanks



I'll post some pictures I just took in this post and as mentioned earlier, I was reading the wrong code, the code on the box corresponds with the 2nd set of number(s) that matches the UPC code on the pack of batteries. It seems like these are for distribution in both the USA and Canada as both Panasonic USA and Panasonic Canada is mentioned. If the pictures aren't clear enough, let me know and I'll have to use another mobile phone to take the pictures as Motorola was never known for quality cameras in any of their phones which includes smartphones and non-smartphones, it's more known for performance and durability.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

The packing definitely is North American market to me

Other than the packaging, I think there are 3 different kinds of wrappers per model/generation, generally speaking:
North America, Europe, Japan

It seems any of the countries that don't fall in those either of those export markets use either one of them.
I've found Chinese market wrappers tend to be North American ones, so is South Korea. But, I think I saw Korean specific wrappers in the 2nd gen series before as it had the distributor's name on the wrapper
Singapore seems to use the EU ones


----------



## Power Me Up

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> Panasonic announced recently Eneloops can now hold a charge of 70% for up to 10 years. http://shop.panasonic.com/about-us-.../05132015-eneloop-rechargeable-batteries.html
> Packaging has already been updated to state this and we should see this slowly trickle to US retailers over the next few months. Panasonic Japan's website still does not show this "increase". http://panasonic.net/energy/battery/us/eneloop/
> *
> Product numbers of the actual cells have not been changed as far as I could tell.*
> 
> Is this far fetched? Maybe. Could this be a prelude to a "5th generation"? Who knows!



Good spotting - the wording does suggest that they're shipping a new generation - from mid May. The Panasonic web site has now been updated to show 70% after 10 years, but it's still showing the same product codes (BK-3MCC for the AA Eneloop) so it's hard to say whether they're actually shipping a different product or if it's just a change on the packaging...



> accumulator on the *other* forum mentioned a couple of weeks ago, that he had found an unopened package for 1st generation AA eneloops with an April 2006 date code. His findings of the two cells from the package showed 72% and 73% I also recently got a pair of 1st generation AA eneloops with a February 2008 date code. It came with the NC-MQH03 charger set from Singapore. I don't have the fancy ZTS battery tester yet nor do I have the good Maha or La Crosse chargers to check this accurately yet. But, my cheapie Delkin tester showed 3 out of 5 lights. Not bad at all! I've decided not to touch them yet and will wait to test these for real on my friend's La Crosse BC-1000 charger to get definitive results.



To me, 72% sounds too high for April 2006 Eneloops - unless they were stored at a low temperature. The last pair of Gen 1 Eneloops that I took out of new packaging about a month ago only had about 55% remaining. (Still quite impressive though!)


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

My guess is that they improved the LSD properties or they got this info from fully charged Eneloops. Since Eneloops are about 70% out of the package 55% seems right after 10 years. Again that is impressive and i would like to see how long Eneloops can stand up to the test of time before they start degrading due to age (not cycles).


----------



## Almighty1

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I have a question, I noticed gearbest.com sells eneloops, are those fake or the real thing? I have noticed that with both target and walmart, somehow their websites are showing AA batteries as AAA since if you look at the product code, it's a 3 instead of a 4 even for AAA batteries, this explains why I received AA 4 packs of the Eneloop Pro/XX's as the target.com invoice actually show the product code as 3 and not 4. 

Some examples are like this:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/39111781?reviews_limit=7&
http://www.walmart.com/ip/39111782?reviews_limit=7&


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Yep, walmart mistake! they should be 4HCC, not 3HCC.. 
please refer to the first few posts in this thread, 
1=D cell
2=C cell
3=AA cell
4=AAA cell


----------



## Almighty1

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Yep, walmart mistake! they should be 4HCC, not 3HCC..
> please refer to the first few posts in this thread,
> 1=D cell
> 2=C cell
> 3=AA cell
> 4=AAA cell



That was how I knew what 4 and 3 meant. I looked at my invoice from target.com, the website shows it as 4x AAA which is also what the invoice says except the part number is a 3 which is the reason I ended up with 9 packs of 4xAA when it was supposed to be 9 packs of 4xAAA. So looks like I will need to get AAA's but just a question, what are considered high drain devices that runs on AAA's? I have some 1000mAh Vidpro NiMH that is used in the DISH Hopper Remote and those last a few months but seems like the 1000mAh Duracell Made in Japan from 2009 or earlier is holding the charge well as it's been 2 years since I last charged them and it's still working fine in another remote and even in a battery tester.


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Almighty1 said:


> I have a question, I noticed gearbest.com sells eneloops, are those fake or the real thing? I have noticed that with both target and walmart, somehow their websites are showing AA batteries as AAA since if you look at the product code, it's a 3 instead of a 4 even for AAA batteries, this explains why I received AA 4 packs of the Eneloop Pro/XX's as the target.com invoice actually show the product code as 3 and not 4.
> 
> Some examples are like this:
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/39111781?reviews_limit=7&
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/39111782?reviews_limit=7&



This is exactly the same thing I'm dealing with. Is there a trusted CPF retailer that we can purchase OEM Eneloops from?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

If you`re interested in a fairly large order (eg. 50+ batteries) feel free to drop me a PM.
Because of my move back to the Netherlands, I don`t have much time to do smaller orders anymore, and therefore closed my sales thread, sorry.


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> If you`re interested in a fairly large order (eg. 50+ batteries) feel free to drop me a PM.
> Because of my move back to the Netherlands, I don`t have much time to do smaller orders anymore, and therefore closed my sales thread, sorry.



Sadly, I understand this all to well. In times past I would have purchased with you. Now that you are only doing large quantities is there a reputable dealer that sells legitimate product that you trust? Where is everyone else purchasing their Eneloop from?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Depends on where you live. In Europe I would recommend Nkon.nl, but have no idea about the US for example.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Costco, in Canada and US.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Amazon is also very reliable, since they are listed as one of the Eneloop official retailers


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I purchased some AA and AAA Eneloops from Amazon. They are awesome cells and the price was excellent.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Could someone tell me if there's any difference between the black charger - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JHKSL1O/?tag=cpf0b6-20

and the white charger - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JHKSMJU/?tag=cpf0b6-20

I'm curious as when i go to get some AA Eneloop Pros, i figured i get the charger that comes with 4AA cells so i'll have 3 chargers as i already have a couple of items that take up to 9 AA cells and it would be easier to have 3 of the same chargers on hand so i don't need to keep checking the voltage to ensure no cells are weaker than others, but if there's a difference in how the black charger operates or if it maintains the Pros better that would be a deal breaker.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

both chargers are the same, just different color... looks "better" to some people who care
but both chargers are quite slow... If you're going to get Eneloop Pros, you might as well import the kit that comes with the BQ-CC16 quick charger from Europe, or the nicer looking BQ-CC21 quick charger kit from Japan. While I don't particular recommend it, there's always the new old stock of the MQR06 charger with Eneloop XX kits, which is also a quick charger... downside is, it doesn't officially support Evolta cells
the BQ-CC17 (ones you linked) already takes a long time to charge regular Eneloops... it'll take even longer with the pros!


----------



## IsaacL

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Yup, same model different colors to match the batteries. The BQ-CC21 smart charger is the one to get if you're looking at Panasonic chargers.


----------



## Huntakillaz

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> Panasonic announced recently Eneloops can now hold a charge of 70% for up to 10 years. http://shop.panasonic.com/about-us-.../05132015-eneloop-rechargeable-batteries.html
> Packaging has already been updated to state this and we should see this slowly trickle to US retailers over the next few months. Panasonic Japan's website still does not show this "increase". http://panasonic.net/energy/battery/us/eneloop/
> *
> Product numbers of the actual cells have not been changed as far as I could tell.*
> 
> Is this far fetched? Maybe. Could this be a prelude to a "5th generation"? Who knows!



Showing 10yrs now @http://panasonic.net/energy/battery/us/eneloop/


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

That's the US site, and was already showing this when I made that post


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> Amazon is also very reliable, since they are listed as one of the Eneloop official retailers



You guys are using only Amazon, not a third party, correct?


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I've been using 3rd party Amazon sellers with success, as I wanted the Japan only stuff, but otherwise Amazon themselves, yes

As mentioned already by WalkIntoLight, Costco is a good source... not just in USA and Canada, but other countries such as Japan, and Taiwan.... I've came across kits meant for the Costcos of those countries also... they have better chargers than what we get. Some other countries might use the same kit as ours though


----------



## Kurt_Woloch

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I'd be curious about that too... I'm currently a bit frustrated by some NiMh batteries by a different manufacturer which I bought a bit over three years ago on sale and which are already severely degraded although they've only done about 20-21 full cycles each. The problem with this is that such a rapid degradation would make the batteries unsuitable for appliances which only get light use (where a cycle might take a year or more) because they're not cost-effective compared to alkalines in this case.

But this is now much better than alkalines, which completely self-discharge within about 15-20 years (at least from my experience), so lose 5-6% per year.

If I only count the last bit of self-discharge (from 75% to 70%), that would be 1% per year, which means they'd take 70 more years to get to 0% for a total time of 80 years (we probably won't be able to verify this!). So would it be unreasonable to assume that they could last 70-80 years with light use (1-2 cycles a year)?

What I'd also be curious of... if you discharge an eneloop to 75% and then let it sit, will it take 5 years to get to 70%?



MidnightDistortions said:


> Wow, 70% for 10 years? That's impressive. I'm more curious to see what is the general lifespan of Eneloops (not cycles but years from seldom usage) I know traditional NiMHs degrade over time but i've been curious to see how long it takes for Eneloops to 'age' into a irreversible state when they degrade.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kurt_Woloch said:


> What I'd also be curious of... if you discharge an eneloop to 75% and then let it sit, will it take 5 years to get to 70%?



It might be close. From what I understand, Sanyo/Panasonic pre-charge Eneloops to 75% at the factory. Whenever I open a pack of Eneloops, some of which I've kept for a few years before opening, they always seem to be about 70% charged. It seems that once they get down to that level of charge, the rate of self-discharge seems to slow down dramatically.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> It might be close. From what I understand, Sanyo/Panasonic pre-charge Eneloops to 75% at the factory. Whenever I open a pack of Eneloops, some of which I've kept for a few years before opening, they always seem to be about 70% charged. It seems that once they get down to that level of charge, the rate of self-discharge seems to slow down dramatically.



That might be why the recent change to 70% for 10 years, if you charge the cells to full it'll take 10 years to get to 70%.



Kurt_Woloch said:


> I'd be curious about that too... I'm currently a bit frustrated by some NiMh batteries by a different manufacturer which I bought a bit over three years ago on sale and which are already severely degraded although they've only done about 20-21 full cycles each. The problem with this is that such a rapid degradation would make the batteries unsuitable for appliances which only get light use (where a cycle might take a year or more) because they're not cost-effective compared to alkalines in this case.
> 
> But this is now much better than alkalines, which completely self-discharge within about 15-20 years (at least from my experience), so lose 5-6% per year.
> 
> If I only count the last bit of self-discharge (from 75% to 70%), that would be 1% per year, which means they'd take 70 more years to get to 0% for a total time of 80 years (we probably won't be able to verify this!). So would it be unreasonable to assume that they could last 70-80 years with light use (1-2 cycles a year)?
> 
> What I'd also be curious of... if you discharge an eneloop to 75% and then let it sit, will it take 5 years to get to 70%?



Yeah it seems most other NiMH cells tend to lose their capacity whether you use them or not, it took less than a year and about 7-10 cycles before one of my Goal Zero batteries declined around 95% capacity which was originally 100% (or higher). Still i don't have a problem using my older degraded cells in low drain applications, even my Rayovac cells which doesn't hold much of any capacity works for several months in a clock (usually i'll just recharge them at that point) and most of my Duracells hold a charge for 4 months or longer in low drain devices. For me that's good enough. Had to retire the 2500mAh Energizers though, my light started flickering with those and they lose their voltage quick which settles around 1.09 volts or if i use my load tester they drop to 0.5 volts. That just means they are discharged but they get to that point within a day now so they're not worth using.

Yeah alkalines can hold a charge for a pretty long time i had some that still register 1.4 volts but once they got put in a flashlight for awhile they only got a volt or less on them now. I keep some around for testing or throw them in devices i don't really care about but still use and they come in handy for remotes, i just never store them in devices. I am impressed by Eneloops, they all stay within a 50mAh difference of one another and none of them go under 1900mAh when testing them. 

It's hard to really say how long Eneloops last but from some tests of older cells, they seem to have fewer cycles than a fresh set so it would stand to reason if you want to get the full benefits of them you'd use them but you can always get the 16 packs and keep a few for storage usage. I prefer to just use them though so i always use up the ones with the oldest dates on them, even with all the AA cells i probably won't get through their cycles past 10 years but since 16 year old NiMH cells can power a clock for several months it'll be interesting to see how Eneloops fare at old age.


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

So I've been looking for a 2 bay that charges AAA. This guy seems to fit the bill perfectly except it's discontinued:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IV0RD6/?tag=cpf0b6-20

This guy only does AA, based on the comments:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0068G9ZLU/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Stumped. What models should I look for?

Maybe this one:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005V9XAN4/?tag=cpf0b6-20

I can't see the plug on the back though.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

First link is the NC-MDR02 charger... There is an older version of this charger (the NC-MDR01) available on ebay cheap. Search for item # 221292107174
The last link is the updated version, which is the NC-TGR02... *ALL* Japanese models uses a US style plug, so no worries for us in North America, since Japanese power outlets are essentially like American ones

Differences between MDR01, MDR02 and TGR02:
-MDR01 has red LED and dark gray case with red Sanyo branding
-MDR02 has red LED and white case with grey Sanyo branding
-TGR02 has green LED and white case without Sanyo branding, just says "eneloop"

I don't know if there are firmware differences, but they all have the same charging rates


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> First link is the NC-MDR02 charger... There is an older version of this charger (the NC-MDR01) available on ebay cheap. Search for item # 221292107174
> The last link is the updated version, which is the NC-TGR02... *ALL* Japanese models uses a US style plug, so no worries for us in North America, since Japanese power outlets are essentially like American ones
> 
> Differences between MDR01, MDR02 and TGR02:
> -MDR01 has red LED and dark gray case with red Sanyo branding
> -MDR02 has red LED and white case with grey Sanyo branding
> -TGR02 has green LED and white case without Sanyo branding, just says "eneloop"
> 
> I don't know if there are firmware differences, but they all have the same charging rates



Ah. Very cool. Thanks for the information. Are they all smart or is the TGR02 the only one? I will only have one AAA Pro in at a time and, obviously, would need independent bays and value the cut off feature.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

They are all "smart" and have termination controls
There's threads talking about the MDR02 all over the place... it does individual cell charging

I have a MDR01 and TGR02 myself.. both do the same things the MDR02 does


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Thanks for all the info. 

would it be possible to post the info in the eneloop charger thread as well? 
just a copy and paste will do. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...charger-do-I-need-(info-and-discussion-thead)

so we can keep the info on Eneloop Chargers there together as well.


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> They are all "smart" and have termination controls
> There's threads talking about the MDR02 all over the place... it does individual cell charging
> 
> I have a MDR01 and TGR02 myself.. both do the same things the MDR02 does



Excellent. Many thanks.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Thanks for all the info.
> 
> would it be possible to post the info in the eneloop charger thread as well?
> just a copy and paste will do.
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...charger-do-I-need-(info-and-discussion-thead)
> 
> so we can keep the info on Eneloop Chargers there together as well.



Posted a huge Sanyo charger chart in your thread
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ssion-thead)&p=4684364&viewfull=1#post4684364


----------



## WDG

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> Posted a huge Sanyo charger chart in your thread
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ssion-thead)&p=4684364&viewfull=1#post4684364


:thumbsup:


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> Posted a huge Sanyo charger chart in your thread
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ssion-thead)&p=4684364&viewfull=1#post4684364



Thanks! thats a long list! thanks for helping out!


----------



## alternety

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

FWIW - Newegg has Fujitsu HR-4UTCEX(4B) batteries. The package claims 85% for 1 year, 70% for 5 years. 750 mah 2100 cycles. If you are on their mailing list - 4/$8.49. If not $11.99

Are these a version of Eneloops with a rebranded envelope?
[h=2][/h]


----------



## Raphaelvox

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

New Panasonic Eneloop serial number or fake?

After much research I finally upgraded to some AA-sized Panasonic Eneloop Pro. I purchased direct from Amazon UK and was sure to order the correct product number: BK-3HCCE/4BE. However on delivery I noticed they have provided two somewhat knocked about packs of BK-3HCDE/4BE. I can't find any mention of this product number on CPF or Panasonic or any other reputable looking website. Has anyone come across this product code? Fake or new serial number?


Thanks, RV


----------



## Raphaelvox

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Apologies - newbie error - wrong IMG link in my last post. Photo of packaging here:
RV





[/URL]Eneloop, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

They look legitimate to me.


----------



## markr6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Living in a world where we have to worry about fake batteries. BATTERIES!!!


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

One thing I don`t like about Panasonic, is their labeling.. They mix and match model numbers like there is no tomorrow. 
Japanese and Chinese cells are both labeled BK-*3MCC*. And they have a confused A or E at the end in different regions without being really clear what they stand for. 
And now BK-3HCD"E" and 2500mAh.. which is different from other models..... pfff. why oh why do they do this?
see here, the latest 2550mAh (overseas Typical rating, not minimum)




and the same, but 2450mAh (Minimum rating)





why they have BK-3HCDE now is just a question. as it looks like they went back to the older generation 2400mAh min., (2500mAh Typical.)

The older, Sanyo Eneloop XX was rated 2500mAh (Typical) 
see here:


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

It apepars to me the BK-3HCD* are legit/true 4th gen Eneloop Pros
Look at the packaging carefully.... it's labelled minimum 2500mAh, whereas previously the BK-3HCCE package showed 2450mAh... frankly, I don't think 50mAh is anything significant, so I wonder if the true capacity is now noticeably higher on these new Eneloop pros

The very latest Panasonic Europe catalog shows this more clearly:
http://www.panasonic-eneloop.eu/pdf/99152100_ENG_eneloopCat_2015_LR.pdf

The BQ-CC18 charger has been replaced by BQ-CC51 too


As for the product codes, I'm fairly certain the last letter of Panasonic Eneloops denote the label type for a given market... "E" for Europe, "A" for Asia/Americas, and nothing for Japan


----------



## Almighty1

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

What I see above is it seems like the discharge is 5% less after 1 year compared to the original Pro/XX's which were 75% -> 80% and now 85%. 

Now I have a question on Standard vs Pro/XX AAA batteries, what kind of devices would be considered high drain that uses AAA since it seems like one just gets 150mah more with the Pro/XX's but it has way less recharged cycles as some of the items I have are home thermostats, blood pressure monitor, DISH Network Hopper DVR remote control and other remotes like TV and Blu-Ray player that takes AAA, are any of those going to last longer with the Pro's before recharging as it seems like the Pro/XX's might hold their charge not as long. I'm not sure how often the batteries need to be recharged in those applications either or do the Pro/XX's have higher current as well?


----------



## WDG

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



markr6 said:


> Living in a world where we have to worry about fake batteries. BATTERIES!!!


I know... It seems crazy, right? Used to be counterfeit watches. Now there's probably counterfeit toilet paper around somewhere. :shakehead


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> As for the product codes, I'm fairly certain the last letter of Panasonic Eneloops denote the label type for a given market... "E" for Europe, "A" for Asia/Americas, and nothing for Japan



See earlier in this thread, they don't seem to correspond to E for Europe and A for Asia... they get sold in both continents


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Oh, and I found out a few new things, which I don't like, and add only more to the confusion..later more about this
It has to do with codes, and descriptions on Japan sold batteries vs Overseas.


----------



## markr6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



WDG said:


> I know... It seems crazy, right? Used to be counterfeit watches. Now there's probably counterfeit toilet paper around somewhere. :shakehead



Half ply, not even single ply!!


----------



## Grijon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



markr6 said:


> Half ply, not even single ply!!


----------



## Almighty1

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Just be glad it's not no ply as after doing your business, what's you see is actually invisible.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

So just a heads up... Costco is doing a close out sale on their Eneloop packs for $22... I think they're trying to get rid of their old inventory and replace them with the new ones that says "10 years"
This is the pack with 10 AAs, 4 AAAs, and the BQ-CC17 charger... they are the blue/light blue and green/light green wrappers

I picked up a pack today as a Christmas present... funny enough, they have a NOS set on the shelf, just one... a Sanyo one with just 10 AAs with the cases... I wonder how that got there lol


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

My Hello Kitty Eneloops!
Testing a 2nd gen Xtar XP1 charger. It should put less stress on the solar panels than the 4 bay Guide 10 Plus.
Will try the solar panels on 16340 and 14500s since the XP1 can charge both NiMh and Li-Ions.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Just curious... where are those Hello Kitty edition Eneloops made? All of the ones I've seen are Chinese made


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> Just curious... where are those Hello Kitty edition Eneloops made? All of the ones I've seen are Chinese made



China as well.

I might be picking up some Disney ones soon if my supplier has them or if I go to Japan next month.
If I end up in Narita, I only have a short stay so no time to go around.
If in Nagoya, here are some electronics shops near the place I stay in.


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



WDG said:


> I know... It seems crazy, right? Used to be counterfeit watches. Now there's probably counterfeit toilet paper around somewhere. :shakehead



Over here, there's a toilet paper brand that has counterfeit circulating.
The company even sent out an advisory on how to spot the counterfeit packaging and quality.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Pretty sure we don't have these Hello Kitty ones in Japan.. and that would be probably the first place to sell them.
Can somebody show some close up pictures of front and back? Not too big please, or just have a link to a high resolution.
First time I've seen these hello kitty ones.


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Pretty sure we don't have these Hello Kitty ones in Japan.. and that would be probably the first place to sell them.
> Can somebody show some close up pictures of front and back? Not too big please, or just have a link to a high resolution.
> First time I've seen these hello kitty ones.



Will do. If I need to go to work today, I'll put it up in the next day or so.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Pretty sure we don't have these Hello Kitty ones in Japan.. and that would be probably the first place to sell them.
> Can somebody show some close up pictures of front and back? Not too big please, or just have a link to a high resolution.
> First time I've seen these hello kitty ones.



there's some good pics on ebay right now


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I'm talking about adding the original pics to this thread for reference. So we don't have to search for them..


----------



## WDG

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



BloodLust said:


> Over here, there's a toilet paper brand that has counterfeit circulating.
> The company even sent out an advisory on how to spot the counterfeit packaging and quality.


Don't you hate when something that should be just a joke turns out to be really happening? :duh2:


----------



## Huntakillaz

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I got these, they dont have the capacity written on the top left them like the others. I assume they're original.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JHKSL0K/?tag=cpf0b6-20


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

pics of the package (front and back)?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Hopefully I'll get some more free time soon to update the first few posts with the latest information, which I am going to call the 5th generation eneloops.


----------



## G166H

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I'm in the UK here and I don't have any Eneloop batteries myself, I only found out about them from a friend who is an electrician.

Doing some further research I came across this thread, which I have read in its entirety, to learn now that Eneloop are not what they used to be. However, I understand that the ones made by the FDK Japanese factory are still the real deal, and I'm hoping that I can get some.

I am looking to colour-code my batteries and wanted to know if the following would be the real Eneloop batteries please:


• AA:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Sanyo-Eneloop...n-AA-NiMH-2000mAh-x8-/181845987497?nav=SEARCH

These AA batteries are listed as 2000mAh however the info table at the beginning of this thread (06-21-2013, 03:41 PM) lists the 4th generation’s AA as a minimum of 1900, so I suppose that’s okay?

It lists the batteries as being rechargeable up to 1500 times, but again the table listed them as 2100 times, which leads me to think that this is just a copy and paste. Again, I’ll have to wait for a reply from the seller.

Lastly the serial listed for the batteries is: “8HR-3UTG-SECP-GL” while the post on 06-21-2013, 03:42 PM at the beginning of this thread lists the glitter release “HR-3UTGA-SL” (HR-3UTGA-8*8SL) which is a generation 2, not 4. Which makes more sense with the blurb on eBay now as the listed cycles for generation of AA’s one was 1500 and rated at 2000mAh, so to my mind he’s listed it as a generation 4 when it should in fact be generation 2.

My worry is that being from 2009 these batteries are six and a half years old now, sure they’re new, but how well will they work? Yes, I want them for their colour, I intend to use them as well, for low powered devices like food Scales (The Orange Chef Countertop) and other mundane things.

I also plan to get a Powerex MH-C9000 WizardOne battery charger to look after them properly, but seem as though they’re out of their five year guarantee as it were, what kind of condition will they be in now? The Glamorous ones from 2013 are okay looking, but they’re not glitter!



• AAA:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/181839645187?_mwBanner=1

These batteries appear to be from the same period and thus 2nd generation ("HR-4UTGA-S4G") and listed as 800mAh with a cycle of 1500, which reads as 750mAh on the table at the beginning of the thread (06-21-2013, 03:42 PM).

There doesn’t appear to be much in the way of imagery online about these batteries in AAA form. Even the tables at the beginning of this thread list them as "not existing", so are these fakes?


I am encouraged as the listings both have “Sanyo” as their manufacturer and the glitter variety was released as second generation batteries in 2009, this seems to be a pre-China period (or, outside of FDK) - but are they too old?



• Amazon UK lists the tropical variety up up to 70% here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00FASV2XG/

They’re from resellers, but there’s only one, from Germany. I’ve not yet received a reply whether these are "Made in Japan” or not. This is listed as ("HR-3UTGB-8BP”) on the table published at the beginning of this post (06-21-2013, 03:42 PM) but I only see it listed as “HR-3UTGBTPE”, which is the third generation, they should be 2000mAh but are listed as 1900mAh on Amazon so I’m not sure if these are the FDK made ones, although the packet states a retention rate of 70%.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Wow, you read this thread in its entirety, and you still have questions? ;p 
just joking. 

okay, my first advice would be...for everyone here, to buy from a good reliable source, and eBay is usually not one of them. 
Once you find a reliable source, you dont need to ask the "is this the real deal"question anymore  

The batteries you found are the 2nd generation eneloops with 1500cycles...made under the Sanyo brand, Not Panasonic... (did you really read this entire thread?)just joking
I dont see them claiming they are 4th gen!
I can assure you that real 2nd gen eneloops will work flawlessly even when they sat unused for 6 years.. maybe you need to do a refresh, but they are still good to go. 
Only as a collector I would buy these cells though, or just for the colors.

onto the AAA
Please have a look again at the table.. and look for the glitter tones, and you'll see them mentioned as existing, not non-existing.. they are called (in Japan) *HR-4UTGA-*8SL
No, they arent too old. You can use them, and they will fully work, if they are real. 

and to the Tropical forest. 
These tropical editions were produced for the European market. (not available in Japan)
in 2013 (before they were called Panasonic eneloops) and the plant that now is owned by Fujitsu (FDK) has been producing eneloops for years... 
so they are still Sanyo eneloops. 

And when they state 2000mAh it is called a Typical rating... while the 1900 is called a Minimum rating.. 
Because eneloops in Japan only show minimum rating, I stopped using Typical rating...

hope that cleared a few clouds


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Added some details about the 5th generation eneloops to the first few posts in this thread. 

unfortunately with all the different details/coding in different regions, its pretty hard to keep the tables/details simple... 
sorry about that. 

if you think you have a better idea of labeling them, feel free to let me know or send me a PM. thanks


----------



## G166H

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Thanks for your reply. I need this information to make an informed purchase.

I think he changed his posting because I informed him of the errors, but he certainly did label them as 4th Gen on his auction, he replied back that he would amend it.

I was looking at a different table from the OP that stated there was no AAA Glitter, I think I got confused, there was a lot to absorb, especially once the history of the exchange was being talked about.

Hood to hear about the glitter batteries, I was hoping they'd still be good. I think I'll get some, but knowing that the newer EU block coloured Tropical Forest versions were still good I'll get some of those as well, good to know those are the real deal as well, I don't suppose then that I would have to check if they were from China, if they're only from FDK?

That's the thing about sourcing, I don't know where to get some outside of eBay and Amazon, I think you or somebody else used to take orders, but not any more, where would I get a good source from please?

Also, I've not used or gotten a Powerex MH-C9000 WizardOne battery charger yet and wanted to know if there was a method to test if the batteries were genuine, how to tell? I'll admit I don't really understand the process (but have read how it's not that complicated and can be understood quite quickly) but is there a test that only *real* Envelop could pass please?

Thanks again!


----------



## G166H

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

What about these plain white Fujitsu batteries then, are they the new Envelops, should I think about those?


----------



## G166H

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Anybody know a reliable supplier for Eneloop batteries please?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



G166H said:


> What about these plain white Fujitsu batteries then, are they the new Envelops, should I think about those?


My white Fuji have practically the same performance as the white Eneloop.
Having 8 different colors and 8 different numbers helps for easy identification, though.

I get all my Eneloops and chargers from nkon.nl, my most reliable source of authentic fresh Eneloops and other listed products.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Yep, Kreisl is correct. They would be the same performance as eneloops. 
if your main concern is performance, they are equal. 

And the good thing what kreisl also mentioned, is that you can keep them in their own sets in flashlights and such, so they are all equally used. by number, or by buying 3-4 packs and use all 3-4 orange batteries in a certain device. 

about your other question, it has been asked a few other times in this thread (+/- post 285) , depending where you are from, the answer would be different. 
In Europe, I would recommend nkon.nl and in the US it could be Costco, Amazon has sellers from all sorts of backgrounds, so that needs a bit more of a research to know which of the sellers is trustworthy.


----------



## G166H

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Thanks for both your help Kreisl and ChibiM, I am in the UK so I would probably opt for nkon, I saw them before, but I meant the old glitter ones, are there fakes of those about? I want them because they look great and I believe that they were released before all this hoo-ha so I should just be able to get them from eBay right?

Thanks.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Looks like Panasonic Europe just released the "Organic Colors" edition






Only 4 color variations are made, each in an earthy tone... quite suited for this time of the year. I believe they are only sold as 8 packs.
They are available in AAA and AA, unlike the Tropical Tones which was only available in AA... (still trying to find the product code)


In the US, as expected, Panasonic has released their new "10 year" Costco sets, which is now the Eneloop Family Pack which comes in a bright green case instead of the commonly known blue one. The wrappers are now standard white. No more "tones" colors, which set the Costco sets apart from the regular ones.


----------



## Tapis

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



kreisl said:


> I get all my Eneloops and chargers from nkon.nl, my most reliable source of authentic fresh Eneloops and other listed products.


+1
ru.nkon.nl for people living outside the European Union (to avoid paying EU taxes).


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

If anyone gets the product code of these organic ones, please let me know.. 
also the Hello Kitty ones please.. and if they are available in 4s and 8s as well. 
thanks


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Eneloop Hello Kitty
Short research, they are called BK*-3MCCB/ 2KC*
made in China
good they added the B at the end... 
only available in 2s






 
And here a link to the backside of the ones sold in China


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ponkan said:


> First 4 eneloops that I break-in using the maha c9000 resulted in the following values: 2547mah, 2523mah, 2550mah, and 2512mah. The last one has the "least" capacity result (98.5% of rated cap), though it is still way above the minimum rated capacity. Extremely thrilled by the results and now waiting for the next 4 break-ins. Even though each pack cost $19, I feel that it is a great investment as it might exceed my usage scenarios within my lifetime. Possibly even my children's lifetime. I know my 4th gen eneloops will definitely be past on to the next generation .
> I hope everyone enjoys the photos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​Last edited by ponkan; 05-29-2015 at 05:23 PM.​



I just got a pack of these in. The "2550" on mine is on the top right hand corner. 

Anyway, the batteries should be glued to the plastic, so that the eneloop word on batteries should all be pointing upwards. Noticed the same thing on Fujitsus too...


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I'm curious, has anyone done a capacity test on the Eneloop Pros, they only list that they hold 85% after 1 year but i haven't seen any data beyond this.


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Ebay shopping items came in from Japan today!


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Eneloop Hello Kitty
> Short research, they are called BK*-3MCCB/ 2KC*
> made in China
> good they added the B at the end...
> only available in 2s
> 
> And here a link to the backside of the ones sold in China



I got a few pieces of these China Hello Kitties. From my understanding, these are Gen4 standard batteries?

The positive tip has 4 visible vents, where the "V" shape is sharper and higher than the gen 1 vents. The date stamp on these batteries are on a different location, under the Sanrio license logo rather than the usual Japanese location towards end of the wrapper. I have no white China eneloops to compare to. On the other hand, the Japanese Gen4 Tones Forest had no such visible vents.

On a side note, anyone noticed that the white filter around the Gen1 positive tip responds to UV light? It shows up as blue, rather than white on the Gen4 Hello Kitties?

*ADDED PHOTOS TO POST*
Eneloop Gen1 vs HelloKitty China Gen4 (Large picture link)


----------



## JLB

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> So just a heads up... Costco is doing a close out sale on their Eneloop packs for $22... I think they're trying to get rid of their old inventory and replace them with the new ones that says "10 years"
> This is the pack with 10 AAs, 4 AAAs, and the BQ-CC17 charger... they are the blue/light blue and green/light green wrappers
> 
> I picked up a pack today as a Christmas present... funny enough, they have a NOS set on the shelf, just one... a Sanyo one with just 10 AAs with the cases... I wonder how that got there lol



I saw some of those in a Costco just last week.


----------



## lak100

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

hi im new here my name is Jim i am from Greece i have to buy aa rechargable batteries iam between panasonic evolta 2450mah and panasonic eneloop pro which is better?


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

New Eneloop Tones announced (goes on sale November 13th, Japan only)





Available as:
BK-4MCC/8TN
BK-3MCC/8TN

Could these be the long awaited "10th anniversary" editions? If they are, I'm pretty disappointed!


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

For those interested, the Eneloops on the Amazon.com site has updated to the new packaging and description. _"Maintain 70% charge for up to 10 years"_


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> New Eneloop Tones announced (goes on sale November 13th, Japan only)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Available as:
> BK-4MCC/8TN
> BK-3MCC/8TN
> 
> Could these be the long awaited "10th anniversary" editions? If they are, I'm pretty disappointed!



Yucks. Next!


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Techno said:


> Yucks. Next!



Uhmm... those look actually REALLY GOOD. 
nothing in batteryland has anything that come close to these batteries.


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Uhmm... those look actually REALLY GOOD.
> nothing in batteryland has anything that come close to these batteries.



I can still get the old Sanyo branded Tropicals here. The big Panasonic word actually ruins the look .


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I agree on the panasonic text... 
but I got used to it.. so I dont mind it as much as I used to. 
Still lovely colors.. 
look the same as their first Tones ever! did you know?


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Techno said:


> I can still get the old Sanyo branded Tropicals here. The big Panasonic word actually ruins the look .



You can also get the Tropical Panasonics and they look pretty much the same... the "Panasonic" branding is Japan only. Everywhere else, "eneloop" is prominently displayed, it's only the back side shows the branding in the smaller print


----------



## Phlogiston

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I wish they'd bring the glittery ones back. Those were cool.


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> You can also get the Tropical Panasonics and they look pretty much the same... the "Panasonic" branding is Japan only. Everywhere else, "eneloop" is prominently displayed, it's only the back side shows the branding in the smaller print




Here, consumers can get (1)old 70% Sanyo Tropical or (2)newer 65% made in china Panasonic Tropical. I've pulled the trigger on the Sanyo Tropical.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

The 70% Panasonic Tropicals exist... I own a pack of those


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> The 70% Panasonic Tropicals exist... I own a pack of those



It depends on the region, I guess. The made in Japan Panasonic 70% cannot or can no longer be found here. 

I've a Nitecore D4 for these batteries. Is there any reason whatsoever to use the low 100 (or 150???) Mah charging mode? For whites or lites?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Techno said:


> It depends on the region, I guess. The made in Japan Panasonic 70% cannot or can no longer be found here.
> 
> I've a Nitecore D4 for these batteries. Is there any reason whatsoever to use the low 100 (or 150???) Mah charging mode? For whites or lites?


Hi Techno, where do you live? 
The 70% Panasonic eneloops (with Panasonic label) are only available in Japan. And they now show 90% after 1 year (in Japan). In the EU and US, they show 70% after 10 years, but have the traditional eneloop labeling. 

Its not recommended charging them at such a low rate. Better charge them at least from about half of the capacity (.5C) so, if a battery is 2000mAh, you can charge it with 1000mA. 
I dont know exactly the maximum charge rate for the D4, but try to go above 500mA, or even above 1000mA if possible. 
for the Lites, you can go somewhere between 500-1000mA.. that would be better than charging at 100 or 150.


----------



## Big_Sam

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I got the Panasonic Japan tropical here on Amazon UK, quite rare though, only got two packets. 

Just bought some AAA Pro from Amazon UK and they are now selling the Japanese 930mAh versions.


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Hi Techno, where do you live?
> The 70% Panasonic eneloops (with Panasonic label) are only available in Japan. And they now show 90% after 1 year (in Japan). In the EU and US, they show 70% after 10 years, but have the traditional eneloop labeling.
> 
> Its not recommended charging them at such a low rate. Better charge them at least from about half of the capacity (.5C) so, if a battery is 2000mAh, you can charge it with 1000mA.
> I dont know exactly the maximum charge rate for the D4, but try to go above 500mA, or even above 1000mA if possible.
> for the Lites, you can go somewhere between 500-1000mA.. that would be better than charging at 100 or 150.



Oops, I think there is some confusion.

I'm at Southeast Asia. The only made in Japan gen4 "eneloops" here are the Fujitsu version. The Panasonic whites and lites are all made in China. 

Earlier on, I was referring to 70% Sanyo tropical vs 65% Panasonic Tropical. I cannot find the 70% Panasonic Gen4 tropical. The Sanyo Tropical came today. As stated on package, its manufactured 2013. I think it's gen3 1800 cycles.

Have also pulled the trigger on some 950mah Toshiba Impulse AAA. The seller claims those are made in Japan. We'll see...


----------



## markr6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I just noticed some more peeling wrappers on my Eneloops. I hardly use AAs anymore in flashlights, and not even that many around my house, so I guess it's not a huge deal.

But no matter how careful I am, they seem to peel at the negative terminals. I don't think it's my chargers either. Everything from 1st to 4th gen. I wish there was more wrapper on the negative end so it would (possibly) hold up better.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



markr6 said:


> I just noticed some more peeling wrappers on my Eneloops. I hardly use AAs anymore in flashlights, and not even that many around my house, so I guess it's not a huge deal.
> 
> But no matter how careful I am, they seem to peel at the negative terminals. I don't think it's my chargers either. Everything from 1st to 4th gen. I wish there was more wrapper on the negative end so it would (possibly) hold up better.



Do they get warm as you are charging them? Could be a factor and usually any of my NiMH cells that are usually charged back up have wrappers that are coming off when they are being charged to 100%, none of the cells i have wrapper issues when charging in the C9000. How long have you had them for?

Probably the only thing that is not made well with Eneloops, great battery cheap wrapping but i only encountered one cell that has the wrapping coming off and it's only a small area though and not as bad as my other brand cells.


----------



## markr6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



MidnightDistortions said:


> Do they get warm as you are charging them? Could be a factor and usually any of my NiMH cells that are usually charged back up have wrappers that are coming off when they are being charged to 100%, none of the cells i have wrapper issues when charging in the C9000. How long have you had them for?
> 
> Probably the only thing that is not made well with Eneloops, great battery cheap wrapping but i only encountered one cell that has the wrapping coming off and it's only a small area though and not as bad as my other brand cells.



They range from 2006 - 2014. It's not just the old ones. I know my cable box remove chews them up since it's nearly impossible to remove them. But even some of my newer cells in my Canon camera flash and EA4 were cut, torn, etc. It just seems like a weak point since the wrapper only comes around the edge slightly.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



markr6 said:


> They range from 2006 - 2014. It's not just the old ones. I know my cable box remove chews them up since it's nearly impossible to remove them. But even some of my newer cells in my Canon camera flash and EA4 were cut, torn, etc. It just seems like a weak point since the wrapper only comes around the edge slightly.



Oh okay, yeah having a tight battery holder would cause that sort of thing. Usually in that case i either use a quarter or a flat scewdriver or whatever i can do to pry them out but almost all the time the positive terminal gets wear and tear. I just know that over time repeat heat and cooling of the battery would cause the ends of the terminals to become brittle and wear out.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

It's a few days from the 10th anniversary of eneloop's first release. Panasonic has setup an event in Berlin along with free swag... anyone in the area, don't miss it!
http://panasonic.net/energy/battery/eneloop/10th/anniversary/


----------



## markr6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Kouryu said:


> It's a few days from the 10th anniversary of eneloop's first release. Panasonic has setup an event in Berlin along with free swag... anyone in the area, don't miss it!
> http://panasonic.net/energy/battery/eneloop/10th/anniversary/



Pretty cool! Anyone outside of CPF or related areas would be thinking "what? for a battery?!?!"


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

find the similarities
the very first eneloop limited editions;
*2009*





and their latest limited edition
*2015*


----------



## G166H

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I got a lot of help from these forums about batteries and the story behind the miss use of the name "Eneloop" and plumped for the Glitter ones which I was still able to pick up unopened!


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Nice colors! Where did you get m?


----------



## littlestar

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I think Amazon has it available from third party sellers.


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I think it's an eBay seller, shipping from indonesia


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I've gotten in some Toshiba Impulse TNH-4AH AAA batteries. The blister pack contains a battery storage case, has Korean wordings and states MADE IN JAPAN. How do I tell whether these are Eneloop Pros? These have white top, marked 900mAh on the battery and 950mAh on the blister pack.

EDIT
OK. No need to reply. It says "FDK Corporation" on the back! Wow.


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Eneloopy by Ensora Works


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Everytime I walked into my local Ario shopping center, I felt like they were using eneloopy as their mascot. Ever been to an Ario shopping mall in Japan?


----------



## lak100

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

should i use alkaline batteries on a remote control?


----------



## Ca999

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Recently I picked up some 4th gen AA 2000mAh eneloops from a local retailer, the code is BK-3MCCE. Reading some informations in the first page, I doubt mine are original. But I am not able to find any information that can ensure the eneloops that I bought are either fake or genuine. Can someone help me to verify whether mine are fake or genuine? Below are some photos of it. Thanks.
















Ridge near the positive terminal





Date stamp code 1411, near positive terminal, very thin.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I havent seen much of the Chinese eneloops myself, so can`t really say anything. 

All I know is related to Japanese eneloops. 
If people post some of their Chinese eneloops, you would be able to compare them.


----------



## Lumencrazy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Are the Eneloops sold by Amazon US generation 4, and are they made in Japan. Anyone purchased any recently?


----------



## KeepingItLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



markr6 said:


> They range from 2006 - 2014. It's not just the old ones. I know my cable box remove chews them up since it's nearly impossible to remove them. But even some of my newer cells in my Canon camera flash and EA4 were cut, torn, etc. It just seems like a weak point since the wrapper only comes around the edge slightly.






MidnightDistortions said:


> Oh okay, yeah having a tight battery holder would cause that sort of thing. Usually in that case i either use a quarter or a flat scewdriver or whatever i can do to pry them out but almost all the time the positive terminal gets wear and tear. I just know that over time repeat heat and cooling of the battery would cause the ends of the terminals to become brittle and wear out.




Wrap a small strip of paper or cloth around each battery before inserting it. Then, when you need to remove a battery, you can use the strip as a pull.


----------



## G166H

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Techno said:


> I think it's an eBay seller, shipping from indonesia



Correct.

Don't tell me they're fakes.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



KeepingItLight said:


> Wrap a small strip of paper or cloth around each battery before inserting it. Then, when you need to remove a battery, you can use the strip as a pull.



Yeah that's actually the best idea


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Regarding the Chinese eneloops a few posts back, they're likely to be real. There are 4 visible V shaped vents on the positive tip. I posted a hi res image of China Hello Kitty eneloops on pg12.


----------



## djdawg

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I have a quick question I think ...........I cant read through all this stuff ......lol
I recently bought a SF Titan plus and it takes AAA batts .......I bought Eneloop pros for use in it (rechargable) and want to know if my Pila charger will recharge these batts ??
If not ........what is a GOOD charger to buy and use for eneloop pros , AAAbatts. ??
Thank you for your time here..........dj


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Pila is for Li Ion cells only. Not for NIMH. I use a LaCrosse smart charger for my NIMH cells and have had good luck with it. 
Do a search for fellow member HKJ. Read up on his reviews on chargers. You should find what your looking for there.


----------



## djdawg

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Thank you ...........you saved me from making a mistake.
Your recommendations on the Lacrosse charger are good enough for me .......... until someone post something to the contrary.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

I prefer the Maha Powerex C9000 for Eneloops. You can let the cells sit on the charger longer without worrying about over charge and shows the internal resistance/ health of the cells. The Lacrosse chargers are not bad but they can do more overcharge on the trickle charge mode on LSD cells.


----------



## rinkel

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Hi, first post (after introduction) 

Not sure if the first post is still being updated, but i recently bought new eneloops: BK-4MCCE
These are 5th gen Eneloops.
Cycles: 2100 
Min: 750 mAh
*70% after 5 years*

This doesn't match the table in the first post.
I think these are european, bought them in NL


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

The new Eneloop Tones are available on eBay. Around us30 per set of 8 pcs.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



rinkel said:


> Hi, first post (after introduction)
> 
> Not sure if the first post is still being updated, but i recently bought new eneloops: BK-4MCCE
> These are 5th gen Eneloops.
> Cycles: 2100
> Min: 750 mAh
> *70% after 5 years*
> 
> This doesn't match the table in the first post.
> I think these are european, bought them in NL


Thanks Rinkel, 
If you take a closer look into the first few posts, youll see they are up to date. 
The ones you bought are 4th generation (so to call), and not 5th. 
Have another look at the first few posts.


----------



## rinkel

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Thanks Rinkel,
> If you take a closer look into the first few posts, youll see they are up to date.
> The ones you bought are 4th generation (so to call), and not 5th.
> Have another look at the first few posts.



Aw shoot.. 
You're right, sorry about the confusion...
Now i need to get my hands on the 5th exports.. 10 years 70% just sounds cool.
Can you imagine having Alkaleaks in a device for 10 years


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

General Eneloop question:

The blister package claims "After 5 years capacity remains 70%" for my Panasonic Eneloop Tropical AA *min* 1900mAh. So what does this really mean, answer A or B?

Answer A:
When the battery is new and fully charged, you'll get min 1900mAh out of it (in a standard discharge). When the battery is new and fully charged and you store it untouched unused for 5 years at normal conditions AND THEN do a standard discharge starting with that untouched 30% self-discharged state you'll get ~1330mAh (=0.70*1900) out of it because 570mAh have self-discharged during the 5 years. AND FINALLY, when you recondition that 5yrs old battery with programs on your charger-analyzer (Refresh, Cycle, Break_in), the battery should be *back at ~1900mAh*. Hardly any degradation took place because Eneloop rocks!

Answer B:
When the battery is new and fully charged, you'll get min 1900mAh out of it (in a standard discharge). When the battery is new and fully charged and you store it untouched unused for 5 years at normal conditions, the *max capacity* will have diminished down to ~1330mAh. This means that when you try to recondition that 5yrs old battery with programs on your charger-analyzer (Refresh, Cycle, Break_in), you'll notice that it cannot hold more than *~1330mAh* charge. Basically the battery has *degraded by ~570mAh*. Time to toss it!

Interesting question. I am rooting for Answer A. :thumbsup:


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



kreisl said:


> General Eneloop question:
> 
> The blister package claims "After 5 years capacity remains 70%" for my Panasonic Eneloop Tropical AA min 1900mAh. So what does this really mean, answer A or B?
> 
> Answer A:
> When the battery is new and fully charged, you'll get min 1900mAh out of it (in a standard discharge). When the battery is new and fully charged and you store it untouched unused at normal conditions AND FINALLY do a standard discharge you'll get min 1330mAh (=0.70*1900) out of it. AND THEN, when you recondition the 5yrs old battery with programs on your charger-analyzer (Refresh, Cycle, Break_in), the battery will be *back at ~1900mAh* max capacity.
> 
> Answer B:
> When the battery is new and fully charged, you'll get min 1900mAh out of it (in a standard discharge). When the battery is new and fully charged and you store it untouched unused at normal conditions, the *max capacity* will have diminished down to ~1330mAh (=0.70*1900). This means that when you try to recondition the 5yrs old battery with programs on your charger-analyzer (Refresh, Cycle, Break_in) AND FINALLY do a standard discharge you'll get *no more than 1330mAh* out of it.
> 
> Interesting question. I am rooting for Answer A. :thumbsup:



Answer A is closest in my opinion also, especially looking at the done tests by several members. Although, new eneloops never come 100% charged, so you'd have to charge them anyway.. So I personally would still call them new, but some people might call them used, as they left the Original sealed package  

The underlined text says max capacity, and earlier in answer A you said minimal capacity. I would probably say Min instead of Max at that point if I wanted to be picky  

Answer B is not correct.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Answer B is not correct.



Thanks for the correct answer!


----------



## jetslipper

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



kreisl said:


> Thanks for the correct answer!


Answer B is more probable than A. 5 years is a long time and it would be wrong to assume that the battery can still have 100% of its advertised capacity after that.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Answer B is wrong.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

If you haven't used the cell very often after 5 years it will still have full max capacity when recharged/cycled. The amount of cycles may be less so instead of 2100 cycles you will have less than that. More like 1500 or something but overall cycles are dependent on how deep you discharge the cell on the regular basis.


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Techno said:


> The new Eneloop Tones are available on eBay. Around us30 per set of 8 pcs.



Well, these came in from a Japanese ebay seller in four days after placing order. I think the chap has like three stores, operated by same person. Prices range from US$29-31.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

really like those colors


----------



## bonpain223

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Which one is more interesting between Eneloop Tropical or Panasonic Eneloop Tones if I want to get one for now? Is it the same generation?


----------



## wolfgaze

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Warning: Novice/Rookie Question (lol)

Is it bad for the Eneloop battery life/health to re-charge them before they have been fully discharged? 

For the record I have been waiting for my batteries to die out in my flashlights before charging the batteries again... But just the other day I was reading about how the NiMH batteries are known for losing a certain percentage of their charge while they are sitting unused for many weeks. So now I'm thinking about my battery rotation and how long certain sets of batteries have sat on my desk since their last full charging. I'm thinking I want to start using recently charged batteries in my flashlights as opposed to using ones which have been sitting around for 6-8 weeks after their last charging.


----------



## light-wolff

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



wolfgaze said:


> Is it bad for the Eneloop battery life/health to re-charge them before they have been fully discharged?


No.


----------



## Grijon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



light-wolff said:


> No.



+1!



wolfgaze said:


> Warning: Novice/Rookie Question (lol)
> 
> Is it bad for the Eneloop battery life/health to re-charge them before they have been fully discharged?



Eneloops, in short, are practically indestructible unless you're TRYING to damage them. If you use them and charge them like a "normal" person would (meaning put them in a standard charger and using them in normal AA devices, including off-the-shelf flashlights) you should get many, many years out of them. So charge them up when you're done with them, and use them when you're ready to use them. If you want to top them off, top them off. No more thought is required.

...now if you dive in and get really involved in your batteries, that's fine, too! That's what I do, LOL - knowing that with Eneloops it's just for fun, because they don't _need_ that level of care.


----------



## wolfgaze

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Thank you for the responses...


----------



## letme1n

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



ChibiM said:


> I have collected this info over the last couple of years and wanted to share the info here.



I think this doc should be attached to the first post of this thread "A guide to understanding the Eneloop Re-branding": http://www.icmaster.com.hk/PDF/SANYO ENELOOP BK-4HCCE-4BT.pdf

Thanks for all the shared info!:thumbsup:


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



letme1n said:


> I think this doc should be attached to the first post of this thread "A guide to understanding the Eneloop Re-branding":
> 
> Thanks for all the shared info!:thumbsup:


Your pdf has a few mistakes. It shows Chinese eneloops as the successors of the Sanyo eneloops, that's not correct. Don't know why you keep showing those Chinese eneloops on every page. And you said 2014, that might be correct for other countries but it was already done on Japan in 2013 
I haven't really looked into details yet, but these I noticed rather soon.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



letme1n said:


> I think this doc should be attached to the first post of this thread "A guide to understanding the Eneloop Re-branding": http://www.icmaster.com.hk/PDF/SANYO ENELOOP BK-4HCCE-4BT.pdf


Thanks for the great document. Looks like the definitive guide, professional/commerical!! :huh:


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Eneloop made in China, Eneloop Pro made in Japan?

Edit:


ChibiM said:


> Your pdf has a few mistakes. It shows Chinese eneloops as the successors of the Sanyo eneloops, that's not correct. Don't know why you keep showing those Chinese eneloops on every page. And you said 2014, that might be correct for other countries but it was already done on Japan in 2013
> I haven't really looked into details yet, but these I noticed rather soon.



I haven't read this one.


----------



## chillinn

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Does anyone know a reputable source/dealer/reseller for:

*Std 5th gen Japan	*
AAA	BK-4MCC	2100	750mAh	750mAh	90%	1 year	2015
AA	BK-3MCC	2100	1900mAh	1900mAh	90%	1 year	2015

Thanks!


----------



## light-wolff

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



letme1n said:


> I think this doc should be attached to the first post of this thread "A guide to understanding the Eneloop Re-branding": http://www.icmaster.com.hk/PDF/SANYO ENELOOP BK-4HCCE-4BT.pdf


Doesn't look like a reliable source to me. Apparently from the marketing manager of a large australian battery distributor. Maybe it's just aussi-centric. I trust this thread and ChibiM's contributions more. We have a global view here.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Techno said:


> Well, these came in from a Japanese ebay seller in four days after placing order. I think the chap has like three stores, operated by same person. Prices range from US$29-31.



prices falling? now 26.89US$ shiped.
specs of my 2014 Tropical and these 2015 Tones seem identical.
i must assume that these are identical cells (technology) inside, just with different year of manufacture.


----------



## Techno

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



kreisl said:


> prices falling? now 26.89US$ shiped.
> specs of my 2014 Tropical and these 2015 Tones seem identical.
> i must assume that these are identical cells (technology) inside, just with different year of manufacture.



Search for "Panasonic organic". There is a seller from Netherlands selling the 8x organic for similar price.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



kreisl said:


> prices falling? now 26.89US$ shiped.
> specs of my 2014 Tropical and these 2015 Tones seem identical.
> i must assume that these are identical cells (technology) inside, just with different year of manufacture.


Okay i must be wrong lol. Good catch, thanks Techno.
What's up with that, so from now every year they come up with a new generation Eneloop wtf? — "welcum to kapilasm"

2014 Tropical specs EU edition: "BK-3MCCE/8PE", Made in J, "5 years later up to 70%" (4th gen)
2015 Organic specs EU edition: "BK-3MCCE/8RE", Made in J, "1 year later up to 90%, 10 years later up to 70%" (5th gen)

Actually, another amazon page labels them "BK-3MCCE/8BE-ORGANIC" oic.

14.75€ on NKON, nice price.


----------



## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Greetings all...

Being a non-techno-guy, so far as electronics are concerned, and having a few other issues I won't go into now :sick2:, I'm finding it difficult to go through the 14-pages of excellent information here and get what I need. Therefore I will simply ask my questions and, as I have been greatly helped with selections here in the past (purchasing spotlight, charger, batteries et cetera), hope for the same kind assistance.

I use AAA and AA rechargeable batteries and a few C and D disposables. I also have, due to recommendations from CPF, a La Crosse BC-700 Alpha Power Battery Charger. *What I'd like to know, in simple terms, is which AA and AAA Eneloop batteries are the latest-n-greatest and where is the best place to purchase them from?*

I'd also like to know the same regarding the C and D batteries but I assume there's another thread for those?

Thank you kindly :thanks:


----------



## Devon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

These Eneloops (Tropical) are made in China and claim 70% as opposed to the earlier ones claiming 65%.

The % difference cannot be relied upon to determine their country of manufacture, ie. Japan or China

Note the different spelling of 'color' and 'colour'.....lol

I am unable to post attachments so here's a direct link to the retailers website page of the product.


http://www.****smith.com.au/batteries/eneloop-aa-tropical-8-pack-dsau-s4492

I have confirmed this in store twice now over a few months.

The front page will need to be updated to reflect this.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Devon said:


> These Eneloops (Tropical) are made in China and claim 70% as opposed to the earlier ones claiming 65%.
> 
> The % difference cannot be relied upon to determine their country of manufacture, ie. Japan or China
> 
> Note the different spelling of 'color' and 'colour'.....lol
> 
> I am unable to post attachments so here's a direct link to the retailers website page of the product.
> 
> 
> http://www.****smith.com.au/batteries/eneloop-aa-tropical-8-pack-dsau-s4492
> 
> I have confirmed this in store twice now over a few months.
> 
> The front page will need to be updated to reflect this.


Until I've seen otherwise, your observation is incorrect. **** smith is very unreliable, as has been pointed out a few times in the past. I'd prefer if you take your post down, or edit it.


----------



## Devon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

What do I have to do to convince you? Send you a pack?

I will drop into a store today and take a couple of photos to confirm for you my previous observations if you like.....70% and Chinese made.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Devon said:


> What do I have to do to convince you? Send you a pack?
> 
> I will drop into a store today and take a couple of photos to confirm for you my previous observations if you like.....70% and Chinese made.


Hey, 
if you can send some pics, that would be really appreciated. I will delete my comment if you`re correct. But I hope you aren`t


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Just copied this from my other thread at BLF
old vs new

Left: *Made in Japan 3rd generation* Right: *Made in (Japan?) 4th generation*
I think they now make 2 versions, 1 in China (bottom) and 1 in Japan... (right)









Both say 70% after 5 years.
but this one below, is definitely made in China
65% and from a Chinese website




Backside (link is external) of this 65% one, showing that its made in China.

If Devon is right, I have to add that to this post.


----------



## Devon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Couldn't get a pic as they have sold out but I can confirm 70% and made in PRC as I had checked it twice....

I will have to take some pics next time I go for a drive to the city, 250 km's away.....

Happy to withdraw if I am mistaken but I have checked twice and I trust I didn't make the same error twice, but hey, I am merely a man.

Edit: I did manage to get 16 more Pros for about AU$3.00 each and an 8 pack of Uomo's for almost AU$2.00 each......the retailer is going broke and in administration with receivers appointed.


----------



## Lumencrazy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Devon said:


> These Eneloops (Tropical) are made in China and claim 70% as opposed to the earlier ones claiming 65%.
> 
> The % difference cannot be relied upon to determine their country of manufacture, ie. Japan or China
> 
> Note the different spelling of 'color' and 'colour'.....lo
> 
> I am unable to post attachments so here's a direct link to the retailers website page of the product.
> 
> 
> http://www.****smith.com.au/batteries/eneloop-aa-tropical-8-pack-dsau-s4492
> 
> I have confirmed this in store twice now over a few months.
> 
> The front page will need to be updated to reflect this.




*Colour is the British spelling. So naturally it would be the same in Hong Kong.*


----------



## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



kilogulf59 said:


> Greetings all...
> 
> Being a non-techno-guy, so far as electronics are concerned, and having a few other issues I won't go into now :sick2:, I'm finding it difficult to go through the 14-pages of excellent information here and get what I need. Therefore I will simply ask my questions and, as I have been greatly helped with selections here in the past (purchasing spotlight, charger, batteries et cetera), hope for the same kind assistance.
> 
> I use AAA and AA rechargeable batteries and a few C and D disposables. I also have, due to recommendations from CPF, a La Crosse BC-700 Alpha Power Battery Charger. *What I'd like to know, in simple terms, is which AA and AAA Eneloop batteries are the latest-n-greatest and where is the best place to purchase them from?*
> 
> I'd also like to know the same regarding the C and D batteries but I assume there's another thread for those?
> 
> Thank you kindly :thanks:



So I guess I'm not going to get an answer?


----------



## Devon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Lumencrazy said:


> *Colour is the British spelling. So naturally it would be the same in Hong Kong.*



The word appears twice on the front of the packet and it is spelt with both alternatives, "color" at the top, then "colour" mid way down on the right hand side.


----------



## Grijon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



kilogulf59 said:


> So I guess I'm not going to get an answer?




I bought my Eneloops from Amazon. Some have expressed concern over Amazon selling counterfeits so I suppose that the "best" place may be Costco, if you have one (I don't).

Any Eneloop is going to be excellent, so I wouldn't worry about "the latest and greatest"; very simply, just buy as many as you need/want.


----------



## CanadaLight2

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

How come the Pro's have less than 1/4 the cycle capability of the latest standard eneloop? Are they only "pro" because of the higher mAh? Or do they excel in other less obvious areas? Thanks!


----------



## Devon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Because batteries are a compromise between cycles and capacity, a bit like a tyre for your car, sport v's longevity etc..


----------



## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Grijon said:


> I bought my Eneloops from Amazon. Some have expressed concern over Amazon selling counterfeits so I suppose that the "best" place may be Costco, if you have one (I don't).
> 
> Any Eneloop is going to be excellent, so I wouldn't worry about "the latest and greatest"; very simply, just buy as many as you need/want.



Thank you...


----------



## Ray F.

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



CanadaLight2 said:


> How come the Pro's have less than 1/4 the cycle capability of the latest standard eneloop? Are they only "pro" because of the higher mAh? Or do they excel in other less obvious areas? Thanks!



I think I also read that the Pro perform well in high drain devices like cameras and flash devices where power drain is great and recycle times are important. Hopefully, someone can confirm this belief.

[Added]
I did a quick search and found a couple of items of interest:

Youtube - test of Sanyo Eneloop 2000mah vs. Eneloop XX 2500mah in Nikon SB-700 flash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrR7-NuEvQ4

A November 2013 article from SLR Lounge with testing and results using various rechargeable AA batteries. Eneloop XX came out on top.
https://www.slrlounge.com/best-rechargeable-aa-batteries-flash-photography/


----------



## CanadaLight2

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



Ray F. said:


> I think I also read that the Pro perform well in high drain devices like cameras and flash devices where power drain is great and recycle times are important. Hopefully, someone can confirm this belief.
> 
> [Added]
> I did a quick search and found a couple of items of interest:
> 
> Youtube - test of Sanyo Eneloop 2000mah vs. Eneloop XX 2500mah in Nikon SB-700 flash
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrR7-NuEvQ4
> 
> A November 2013 article from SLR Lounge with testing and results using various rechargeable AA batteries. Eneloop XX came out on top.
> https://www.slrlounge.com/best-rechargeable-aa-batteries-flash-photography/



Thanks Ray, I think you are correct - better under load, etc.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

I really could not see much of a difference in the video. There were moments where the pros did cycle the flash a bit faster but then it slowed after the 2nd and third.


----------



## Ray F.

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

I noticed the same thing. There was no appreciable difference in this test. If I find anymore supporting tests with a larger difference, I will post them.


----------



## CanadaLight2

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Busted out the CH-9000 the other day and discharged (500mA)/charged (1000mA) some neglected 2006 standard white "min.1900mAh" eneloops, 4 of them had around 1,850 mAh right off the charger sans top-up (should have probably left them on for a bit of trickle). Going through about 16 eneloops from 2006-2009, lowest one so far was 1,774 mAh without topup using 1A to charge. One other 2006 cell got 1945 mAh before showing "done" and another from 2009 is 2190 mAh and counting as I write this. These are damn impressive little batteries - no need to throw any of them out just yet.

Do you guys group cells by age (manufacturer date), or just mAh performance? I was just going to group them all by mAh, but I am not sure.


----------



## MrWongBurger

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Hello, i just picked up the kit from costco today and was wondering do i charge them first or drain them?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

depends.

if you want fully charged batteries you must charge them first.

lol


----------



## Hoggy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



CanadaLight2 said:


> Do you guys group cells by age (manufacturer date), or just mAh performance? I was just going to group them all by mAh, but I am not sure.



I used to do that with regular NiMH - kept track via labels and spreadsheet and all.

With Eneloops, I just don't bother with ANY of that crap anymore. Just charge and go. I simply get 'em on Amazon and all has been fine so far.. Maybe just watch out for 'deals' that seem too good to be true. If you're really that concerned, get an analyzer like the MAHA C-9000 to check them (good to have an analyzer on hand, anyways, with _any_ rechargeables).

The irony is that Eneloops (even the 1st gen that I still have) have all but completely negated my reasons for _needing_ the MAHA & LaCrosse analyzers/chargers in the first place. If you're ever in a situation where you think a grouped-pack of Loops died too soon, then put _those_ through the analyzer to check for a possible culprit.


.... And WTF about those 'tropical' loops?? $54 for 8 Eneloops!! :fail: They MUST be fricken high!?!?! Who in their right mind would get those? There's just no way. ... Amazon 8 for $16 on AA and, IIRC, 8 AAA for ~$21.. Haven't been burned _yet_.

EDIT: oops! I had those prices reversed... Anyway, did anyone see the new figures for how long they hold a charge now?!
70% for up to *10 YEARS*!! Holy crap!! 
(In the back of my mind, I kinda have a theory that they're all pretty much the same cells.. just that they're updating the figures with more real world data as time passes. These are almost seriously turning into cells that people pass on to their grandchildren.  )

Link for where I've always gotten all my [trustworthy] Loops from, using the various options there (I have it permanently in my 'saved for later' cart.): 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JHKSMG8/ref=twister_B00QGBZTXA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## MrWongBurger

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



kreisl said:


> depends.
> 
> if you want fully charged batteries you must charge them first.
> 
> lol



Yes but im asking is it better to discharge them first before charging them the first time.


----------



## Grijon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



MrWongBurger said:


> Yes but im asking is it better to discharge them first before charging them the first time.



It only makes a difference if you're using the batteries in a multi-cell device. If you are, then charge them all up before using them so that they're all equally charged. If you aren't, then it does not matter one bit to the Eneloops.


----------



## bykfixer

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

^^ that way you aren't charging one battery from another. Say battery 1 has 2 volts while battery 2 has 3...they try to equalize. 

I do not have numbers to prove it, but when I first got a Coast HP7-360 lumen light I noticed with alkalines you could see noticable dimming via direct drive using alkalines.

Got out some old white eneloops and noted it was better....but then I read here at CPF that noticable dimming took way longer using eneloop xx's.
I bought some eneloop pro cells at the big A and confirmed that as in it took like 30 minutes (instead of 5-15) before my light was noticably dimmer using ceiling beam testing.

I outfitted my wifes HP7 with them after that and 6 months later (w/occasional use) it still puts out a blinding beam on high...

For my mini mags I have not seen a benefit of the Pro vs the regular kind.


----------



## MrWongBurger

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Oh ok, Im just using them in Xbox One controllers and i tested them and they showed up as 1.33v on each. I have yet to charge them since they say they are pre charged


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Hello MrWongBurger,

Welcome to CPF.

With Eneloop cells you can do pretty much whatever you want to do. If you want to just use them, fine. You will not get full performance because they are only partially charged. If you want to charge them up first and then use them, fine. If you want to discharge them followed by charging them up, fine. These cells don't seem to care what you do, within reason.

Use them and enjoy them.

Tom


----------



## MrWongBurger

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Oh ok thank you very much. I wasn't sure what i should do first with the battery's as far as charging them first or discharging them to not mess them up. From what you said it doesn't matter.


----------



## Ray F.

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



MrWongBurger said:


> Oh ok thank you very much. I wasn't sure what i should do first with the battery's as far as charging them first or discharging them to not mess them up. From what you said it doesn't matter.



Me personaly, If I'm in a hurry, I use them and charge them later. Otherwise, I like to top them off before using, so I get the maximum amount of time before the next charge.


----------



## Joe Kidd

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Just came across 2 Pro X's 2400mah that were charged two years ago when I took them out of service. I ran a charge-test on these and cells had 2421mah and 2456mah capacity with 66 milliohm resistance. Awesome battery.


----------



## Lumencrazy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



Hoggy said:


> I used to do that with regular NiMH - kept track via labels and spreadsheet and all.
> 
> With Eneloops, I just don't bother with ANY of that crap anymore. Just charge and go. I simply get 'em on Amazon and all has been fine so far.. Maybe just watch out for 'deals' that seem too good to be true. If you're really that concerned, get an analyzer like the MAHA C-9000 to check them (good to have an analyzer on hand, anyways, with _any_ rechargeables).
> 
> The irony is that Eneloops (even the 1st gen that I still have) have all but completely negated my reasons for _needing_ the MAHA & LaCrosse analyzers/chargers in the first place. If you're ever in a situation where you think a grouped-pack of Loops died too soon, then put _those_ through the analyzer to check for a possible culprit.
> 
> 
> .... And WTF about those 'tropical' loops?? $54 for 8 Eneloops!! :fail: They MUST be fricken high!?!?! Who in their right mind would get those? There's just no way. ... Amazon 8 for $16 on AA and, IIRC, 8 AAA for ~$21.. Haven't been burned _yet_.
> 
> EDIT: oops! I had those prices reversed... Anyway, did anyone see the new figures for how long they hold a charge now?!
> 70% for up to *10 YEARS*!! Holy crap!!
> (In the back of my mind, I kinda have a theory that they're all pretty much the same cells.. just that they're updating the figures with more real world data as time passes. These are almost seriously turning into cells that people pass on to their grandchildren.  )
> 
> Link for where I've always gotten all my [trustworthy] Loops from, using the various options there (I have it permanently in my 'saved for later' cart.):
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JHKSMG8/ref=twister_B00QGBZTXA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1




No, actually the specifications for the separator have been changed and improved over time. Also varying formulations (AB5) (A2B7) and (AB2) for example have been developed for the anode material. Furthermore, there are many advanced techniques for doing life-prediction analysis. Nobody waits 10 years to make a 10 year prediction. Science is way ahead of our theories.


----------



## keithy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



ChibiM said:


> Just copied this from my other thread at BLF
> old vs new
> 
> Left: *Made in Japan 3rd generation* Right: *Made in (Japan?) 4th generation*
> I think they now make 2 versions, 1 in China (bottom) and 1 in Japan... (right)



ChibiM - thanks for the great info. 

For reference, I still have an unopened set of 2013 manufactured 3rd Gen Eneloops in Tropical colours I bought in 2014 from a local retailer in Australia. HR-3UTGB8TPT

The back is clearly labelled as Made in Japan and printed on the cells as well. 












I'm sure when I checked stock at **** Smith in Australia, the newer China made ones had Made in China printed on the back.


----------



## Hoggy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



Lumencrazy said:


> No, actually the specifications for the separator have been changed and improved over time. Also varying formulations (AB5) (A2B7) and (AB2) for example have been developed for the anode material. Furthermore, there are many advanced techniques for doing life-prediction analysis. Nobody waits 10 years to make a 10 year prediction. Science is way ahead of our theories.



It's good to know that it isn't just a marketing gimmick, then.

I wonder if any of the Eneloop LSD technology has been transferring over to their lithium cells they make, as well?
I'm too new at using Lithium-ion batteries for _flashlights_ to know how long any brand can hold their charge for yet.. Being that I've been using just 18650's for vaping, they never sit that long for me to be able to tell.


----------



## MrWongBurger

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

I wonder if this set is worth it for $11.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817109037


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



MrWongBurger said:


> I wonder if this set is worth it for $11.99
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817109037



They are essentially the same as Eneloops.


----------



## Devon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



keithy said:


> ChibiM - thanks for the great info.
> 
> For reference, I still have an unopened set of 2013 manufactured 3rd Gen Eneloops in Tropical colours I bought in 2014 from a local retailer in Australia. HR-3UTGB8TPT
> 
> The back is clearly labelled as Made in Japan and printed on the cells as well. .....pics...
> I'm sure when I checked stock at **** Smith in Australia, the newer China made ones had Made in China printed on the back.



I've been checking since I made my previous comment and I've only been able to find the older 65% ones with made in China on them. Only checked 2 stores and 1 was sold out....looking for what I thought I saw and that was 70% and China, but if they're never found then I must have been mistaken.


----------



## MrWongBurger

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Got a quick question, Is it ok to charge my eneloops at 1100mA vs 300mA ? Reason why i ask is i just got a Fujitsu Quick Charger that can charge 2xAA @ 1100mA and 4xAA @ 550mA vs my Panasonic Charges them at 4x AA @ 300mA


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Hello MrWongBurger,

Yes. It is OK to charge Eneloop cells at 1100 mA. Depending upon your chargers termination method, the higher charging rate will produce a larger termination signal and there is a reduced probability of missing the termination signal and overcharging the cell.

Tom


----------



## MrWongBurger

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



SilverFox said:


> Hello MrWongBurger,
> 
> Yes. It is OK to charge Eneloop cells at 1100 mA. Depending upon your chargers termination method, the higher charging rate will produce a larger termination signal and there is a reduced probability of missing the termination signal and overcharging the cell.
> 
> Tom


Im using this charger, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817109037

I was just wondering as ive heard its bad for the battery to charge at a higher rate compared to my other charger that charges it at 300mA.


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Hello MrWongBurger,

High charging rates can cause damage to cells. However, completing the charge in 1 - 2 hours is not charging at high rates. Slow rates cause missed terminations and that also damages the cells. 

I ran a test on some of the original Eneloop cells charging the cells in 15 minutes. That is a high charge rate. The cells lasted 150 cycles.

You can keep an eye on things by monitoring the temperature of the cells during charging. If they get too hot to touch, something is wrong. If they only get warm, everything is OK.

Tom


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Looks like Eneloops, Charged by Japanese IDOLS using a bike dynamo 12v going to an 110ac inverter to an mains AA charger, it`s a stunt but it must be inefficient going from 12v to 110ac

http://en.rocketnews24.com/2016/04/...y-charged-for-you-by-idols-on-a-bike-【video】/

John.


----------



## X_dead3

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Hi folks,

Interesting thread here on eneloops relabelled as Ikea Ladda !

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-and-charger&p=4873360&viewfull=1#post4873360


----------



## MrWongBurger

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Seems like im getting mixed advice on charging eneloops. I was told that 1100mA causes too much heat and reduces the charge cycles. Not sure if i should keep charging them at 1100mA for 1-2 cells or 550mA for 3-4 cells.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Some chargers like the C9000 will charge Eneloops fine at 1amp. If you are not sure you could test it out by subtracting 100 mA if the cells gets hot.


----------



## Grijon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*



MrWongBurger said:


> Seems like im getting mixed advice on charging eneloops. I was told that 1100mA causes too much heat and reduces the charge cycles. Not sure if i should keep charging them at 1100mA for 1-2 cells or 550mA for 3-4 cells.



Listen to SilverFox and you can't go wrong:



SilverFox said:


> Hello MrWongBurger,
> 
> High charging rates can cause damage to cells. However, completing the charge in 1 - 2 hours is not charging at high rates. Slow rates cause missed terminations and that also damages the cells.
> 
> I ran a test on some of the original Eneloop cells charging the cells in 15 minutes. That is a high charge rate. The cells lasted 150 cycles.
> 
> You can keep an eye on things by monitoring the temperature of the cells during charging. If they get too hot to touch, something is wrong. If they only get warm, everything is OK.
> 
> Tom



1100mA is fine for your Eneloops, MrWongBurger.


----------



## MrWongBurger

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2015*

Thank you for the response. Im using a Fujitsu Quick Charger that charges 1-2AA @ 1100mA and 3-4AA @550mA. Only thing im having some issues with is that i notice if i leave the cells in the charger for hours after they are finished charging it seems to trickle charge them to keep them topped off i think as i pulled them several hours later and it was still at 1.47v


----------



## jimmy_WAI

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Beware in getting charger bundle pack. Batteries are made in China. Purchased online in Malaysia.


----------



## jase3377

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

hey guys,

bought regular eneloop and eneloop pros off amazon.

The date I see on both is 15 - 09 S3 on the regular
15 - 09 (i think EF for the letters)

I don't see 2015 date for pros on that list? 

Is buying safe from amazon in regards to getting the real envelops?

Also, when using these batteries on gaming controllers, on a full charge it'll stay 100% and go down to around 85% on the battery meter. For example on the xbox one. Is this normal for these batteries due to their low voltage? The meter thinks the battery is lower than they are?

thanks


----------



## keithy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



jimmy_WAI said:


> Beware in getting charger bundle pack. Batteries are made in China. Purchased online in Malaysia.



AFAIK, all Asia Pacific region now gets Eneloops Made in China. I've checked in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand so far. Forgot to check when in Hong Kong. Maybe local forumers from HK and Philippines can chime in, but I think they get Made in China eneloops as well.


----------



## keithy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



jase3377 said:


> I don't see 2015 date for pros on that list?
> 
> Is buying safe from amazon in regards to getting the real envelops?
> 
> Also, when using these batteries on gaming controllers, on a full charge it'll stay 100% and go down to around 85% on the battery meter. For example on the xbox one. Is this normal for these batteries due to their low voltage? The meter thinks the battery is lower than they are?



I don't think that list has been updated for a while and is not all inclusive. If you bought from Amazon as the seller - they are genuine unless they got duped by their supplier (which is going to be very rare)

For controllers, their "battery meter" might be calibrated for 1.5V AAs, so for example using 2 x alkaline AAs, it would be expecting to see 3V when new and 100%. With NiMH you are starting at around 1.2V each AA, so for 2x NiMH AAs you will be getting a lower total voltage so the built in indicator thinks it is a lower battery level. Some devices that can operate on both NiMH and alkalines might have a switch or software that tells the device what type of battery it is and the battery indicator changes accordingly.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

I might have missed something, but as far as my understanding goes, all Japanese eneloops are in the list. (I stayed away from adding Chinese eneloops though) 
And codes like MCCE and MCCA are noted as MCC without the additional letter, as they differ per region.
If anyone finds new eneloops that are not on the list, let me know..


----------



## tcpftg

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

I've recently tested 8 Eneloop Pro batteries purchased in January 2012 using Break-In and Refresh&Analyze cycles on Maha C9000. The batteries were barely used (maybe 20 recharges in those 4 years). The only devices they were occasionally used in are Olight S65, Zebralight SC51, and blood pressure monitor AND UA-767.

According to C9000, only 1 of 8 batteries still has capacity ~2400 mAh. The other 7 have capacities between 1900 and 2100 mAh, even after break-in.

The white Eneloops purchased at the same time (January 2012) demonstrate capacities in the same range (1900 - 2000 mAh).

I know Eneloop Pros are not supposed to last as long as white Eneloops, still I expected more from them.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



tcpftg said:


> I've recently tested 8 Eneloop Pro batteries purchased in January 2012 using Break-In and Refresh&Analyze cycles on Maha C9000. The batteries were barely used (maybe 20 recharges in those 4 years). The only devices they were occasionally used in are Olight S65, Zebralight SC51, and blood pressure monitor AND UA-767.
> 
> According to C9000, only 1 of 8 batteries still has capacity ~2400 mAh. The other 7 have capacities between 1900 and 2100 mAh, even after break-in.
> 
> The white Eneloops purchased at the same time (January 2012) demonstrate capacities in the same range (1900 - 2000 mAh).
> 
> I know Eneloop Pros are not supposed to last as long as white Eneloops, still I expected more from them.



I typically refrain from using the break-in function with Eneloops or at the very least fully discharge them first. Maybe the Eneloop Pros are a bit older than you think or maybe these cells require more usage (or refreshing). I don't have much experience with them other than it's really easy to overdischarge them.


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

We get the China ones in the Philippines but depends on the seller though.
I'm in Japan and North America every month anyway so I can source the batteries anywhere.



keithy said:


> AFAIK, all Asia Pacific region now gets Eneloops Made in China. I've checked in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand so far. Forgot to check when in Hong Kong. Maybe local forumers from HK and Philippines can chime in, but I think they get Made in China eneloops as well.


----------



## aris1234

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Just to add my 2pence here.

I recently bought some from a 3rd party seller on Amazon - an 8pack of BK-3MCCE. Everything seems to check out. Date code looks right, it is embossed, metallic printing of logo, no ridge, no vent holes etc. The only niggly thing is the capacity tested using an Optus intelligent battery charger they are all slightly under 1900Mah. They are basically in the mid 1850's. My past experience is that out of the box, Eneloops exceed the minimum capacity. I've got the batteries in another test cycle now which will discharge and recharge the battery and show me the capacity, but in the meantime - anyone think these are fake? 

Embossed Date code is "1 5 11UD" (there is a space between the 1 and the 5). This checks out with the date code printed on the back of the packaging of 11 2015. They appear to packaged for the Eastern European market - not necessarily a bad thing.


----------



## aris1234

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Just an update - on doing a capacity test again (which discharges and fully recharges the battery in the process), it looks like i'm getting fairly consistent 2000+ mAh across 4 of the 8 cells. I'll try the other 4 cells tonight, but it would seem that perhaps these are OK after all and just needed a cycle to get going. For anyone interested, I got them from a 3rd Party Amazon UK seller called Beconshop £11.99 inc delivery:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00JZBX8DQ/


----------



## Evadinnn

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

UPDATE: Made in China Forest Tones Eneloop now has 70% after 5 years claim. Not sure if it's any better than the older "65%aft5yr" claiming batteries.


----------



## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

I have to tell ya..you all have got be so gun-shy on buying some Eneloops...and I need some bad...


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



Evadinnn said:


> UPDATE: Made in China Forest Tones Eneloop now has 70% after 5 years claim. Not sure if it's any better than the older "65%aft5yr" claiming batteries.



Running some tests will get results on that.


----------



## babyslim

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



soontobetold said:


> Can you advise which Eneloop charger specifically should I get? I want something simple.
> 
> Is this the MAHA C9000 you are talking about? http://amzn.com/B003DIGKOG



Being a newbie, I'm thinking I might not have done well for myself with the charger I bought. It is wrapped in with 4 eneloop pros. The 2450mah or 2540...I'm not so memorized yet. 
But the charger that comes with them is recommended to react to each batt individualy. Should it be sufficient to eliminate concerns. It's all Panasonic merch. Amazon sales. Pretty hard to know what's best until much reading here. Should I send it back? I got 4 pros for AA powered thrunite tn4a
With the 4 slot charger handling AA and A AA batts.


----------



## xxo

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014*



babyslim said:


> Being a newbie, I'm thinking I might not have done well for myself with the charger I bought. It is wrapped in with 4 eneloop pros. The 2450mah or 2540...I'm not so memorized yet.
> But the charger that comes with them is recommended to react to each batt individualy. Should it be sufficient to eliminate concerns. It's all Panasonic merch. Amazon sales. Pretty hard to know what's best until much reading here. Should I send it back? I got 4 pros for AA powered thrunite tn4a
> With the 4 slot charger handling AA and A AA batts.




As long as they charge each cell individually (not in pairs), Panasonic smart chargers are fine - not a lot of bells and whistles and usually not the fastest, but very good basic smart chargers.


----------



## goldwing

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Newbie question: are there any solar type chargers anyone can recommend that is of quality?


----------



## lak100

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

hi i need batteries for my panasonic cordless phone i found on ebay aaa rechargable batteries 1800mah are they genuine? 1800mah is too much for an aaa battery http://www.ebay.com/itm/PANASONIC-K...-/161048650800?ssPageName=ADME:X:COCE:US:3160


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



lak100 said:


> hi i need batteries for my panasonic cordless phone i found on ebay aaa rechargable batteries 1800mah are they genuine? 1800mah is too much for an aaa battery http://www.ebay.com/itm/PANASONIC-K...-/161048650800?ssPageName=ADME:X:COCE:US:3160



Fake for sure. Don't buy them. Check this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L9y_n9xioyE


----------



## lak100

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Fake for sure. Don't buy them. Check this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L9y_n9xioyE


can i use eneloop pro on my phone? what would you suggest?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



lak100 said:


> can i use eneloop pro on my phone? what would you suggest?



Your phone doesn't use a battery pack? (3-4 cells soldered together)


----------



## KeepingItLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Like you, my Panasonic cordless phone uses standard NiMH rechargeable AAA batteries. 

I don't think you want to use the Eneloop Pros. They do not have as many recharge cycles as regular Eneloops. In addition, you recharge a phone so often, that you really do not need (and would not use) the extra capacity.


----------



## lak100

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

what would you suggest maybe eneloops with 2.100 regharges?


----------



## KeepingItLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



lak100 said:


> what would you suggest maybe eneloops with 2.100 regharges?



Yup! Them's the ones.

Mine is actually running on Energizer NiMH Recharge batteries. I got them before I had learned about Eneloops. They have worked well. If I were shopping today, I would buy the 'loops.


----------



## lak100

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

i will go with today i compare some evolta aa rechargables with maxell akalines the evoltas seems to be more bulky as size


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

I just noticed (not sure if it applies to all), my Eneloopsare just a wee bit longer than standard Alkaline batteries. Even my GP Recyko AA's.
I put the GP In my Nite-Ize Mini 3-in-1 and since the light uses a piston instead of a spring, itdented the bottom plate of the battery. I thought at first that maybe GP does not have as good quality control as Panasonic/Sanyo since Eneloops are the benchmark or standard when it comes to LSD batteries.
So I then put in an Eneloop, same result. Very tight and it would flicker. Doesn't happen with regular alkalines.
I stood the Eneloop and GP beside an Energizer and a Duracell alkaline. The rechargeable ones are ever so slightly longer.
I searched the stores today and upon a quick comparison (they were still in their packaging), it seems that the Fujitsu and Energizer Recharge Extreme Ni-MHs appear to be the same length as the alkalines. I bought the Fujitsu ones. Will try them out later after they charge.


----------



## lak100

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

i bought from ebay 5th gen eneloop the say 10 years and most suitable for cordless phones


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

BK-3HCD 15-10H M 
min 2500 mAh

From Japan. 

Already a year old CD Gen cells.


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

From left to right.
*
- Panasonic Eneloop "Sanrio - Hello Kitty" BK-3MMCCB. Set of 2. Made in China
- Sanyo Harmolattice 2500 "Powered by Eneloop technology" HR-3U25HM. Set of 4. Made in Japan
- Panasonic Eneloop AAA BK-4MCCE. Made in Japan
- Sanyo Eneloop "Tropical color edition" in yellow & pink. HR-3UTGA. Set of 8 in diff colors each but I bought it by piece. Made in Japan
- Fujitsu FDK Corp. Low self-discharge. HR-3UTA. Set of 2. Made in Japan.*

Most of my rechargeables are color coded. Harmolattice and Goal Zero LSD batteries power my 4AA lights and camera flashes.
Hello Kitty and GP ReCykos power my 2AA lights. The multi-colored Eneloops and Fujitsu for my 1xAA EDC: Fenix LD10 & E12







Too bad I missed out on the Disney Eneloops in my local shop. Might order them online.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



BloodLust said:


> From left to right.
> *
> - Panasonic Eneloop "Sanrio - Hello Kitty" BK-3MMCCB. Set of 2. Made in China
> - Sanyo Harmolattice 2500 "Powered by Eneloop technology" HR-3U25HM. Set of 4. Made in Japan
> - Panasonic Eneloop AAA BK-4MCCE. Made in Japan
> - Sanyo Eneloop "Tropical color edition" in yellow & pink. HR-3UTGA. Set of 8 in diff colors each but I bought it by piece. Made in Japan
> - Fujitsu FDK Corp. Low self-discharge. HR-3UTA. Set of 2. Made in Japan.*
> 
> Most of my rechargeables are color coded. Harmolattice and Goal Zero LSD batteries power my 4AA lights and camera flashes.
> Hello Kitty and GP ReCykos power my 2AA lights. The multi-colored Eneloops and Fujitsu for my 1xAA EDC: Fenix LD10 & E12
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad I missed out on the Disney Eneloops in my local shop. Might order them online.



You started out pretty well there. Are you expecting to get all special editions? good luck


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Just the Disney ones for now. I think some Disney ones have pairs with the same design (mostly the Mickey and Minnie outfits) and some come with different designs per cell (the white wrappers with Disney symbols).
If not, I might settle for the glitter or earthy toned ones.


----------



## damn_hammer

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Anyone aware of upcoming special editions or any that I might have missed for the current generation? All I see are tropical tones and forrest tones. There have been some really cool ones in the past, ex. glitter, disney, rouge tones. I've been thinking about gifting special edition Eneloops to my tween nieces for Christmas.

[edit] I was able to locate the older generation Disney and Glamour special editions from Amazon for only a small tick up in cost from standard, shipping from Japan (on a slow boat by the delivery date I was given). Still interested to get an answer to my original question though about current gen special edition. I'm located in the US, but have friends in W. Europe that can bring me something like this if I asked, so those markets or available for US import. Thanks


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



damn_hammer said:


> Anyone aware of upcoming special editions or any that I might have missed for the current generation? All I see are tropical tones and forrest tones. There have been some really cool ones in the past, ex. glitter, disney, rouge tones. I've been thinking about gifting special edition Eneloops to my tween nieces for Christmas.
> 
> [edit] I was able to locate the older generation Disney and Glamour special editions from Amazon for only a small tick up in cost from standard, shipping from Japan (on a slow boat by the delivery date I was given). Still interested to get an answer to my original question though about current gen special edition. I'm located in the US, but have friends in W. Europe that can bring me something like this if I asked, so those markets or available for US import. Thanks



In the past, they used to put new editions on the market in/around November, so Ive been looking at some announcements (in Japan) but havent seen any yet.. So they might put some new ones on the market in a few weeks...hopefully


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

here you go.. 

New in Europe!



Eneloop ocean colors










I guess somebody did a bad photoshop job.. see the difference between the top and bottom


----------



## Burgess

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Here's their Video 
of this new limited-edition series --


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhT8M7sj4Iw


----------



## MaestroDaVinci

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Hello, i'm new to the forum and "new" to the rechargeable batteries and absolutely new to Eneloop. I put new in "", because around 5-7 years ago i bought myself 3 sets of Sony rechargeable batteries for use in my camera it's not a DLSR, but still it required a good batteries, however i bought them with the sony charger, of course over the time i didn't know how to charge them and used the charger pretty much like put it at night and leave it until the next day around 10 a clock in the morning, so pretty much not how it should be used. That usage of course caused problems with the batteries and stopped using them. 

Since many years i know of Eneloop brand and that is probably the best brand if you want to buy rechargeable batteries. So i decided to get myself a few.

Long story short recently i got my self Opus BT-C3100 v2.2 and eneloop aaa batteries (12 of them in packs of 4) and i need a bit of info on the batteries and more specifically about the special editions. So i recently learned of eneloop special editions. I know that they are putting them out on regions and on specific time. But there is a thing that don't understand i can't find info and i hope my question is answered here, so here goes.

Most recent special edition is Eneloop Ocean Organic Colors, but i'm finding only AA size in a pack of 8, so is there an AAA version? 
Also when they release a new version of special editions or not, how long are they in circulation? And what is the best to buy of those that have come out? 
I know that right now they are made by Panasonic, but will that change?

Thank you in advance for the help and i hope i can get the answers of my questions.


----------



## Phlogiston

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Ocean colours? 

I think I'll give those a miss - too close to the 1000mAh AA Eneloop colour. I'd be guaranteed to confuse them sooner or later. 

Now if they'd just bring back the glitter ones... my entire family would laugh at me and I would not care in the slightest!


----------



## Benediction

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



lak100 said:


> i bought from ebay 5th gen eneloop the say 10 years and most suitable for cordless phones



Cordless Phones!! - for those not familiar, *please* don't *leave *them in the charger *especially* with LSD (*L*ow *S*elf *D*ischarge) batteries. If you do, then you will get *nowhere *near 2100 cycles out of them.

When the phone indicates (ie: "Charge for 7 hrs") or some indicator that its low on energy, then put it in charger.

Firstly the cordless phone + base unit always put a trickle of energy into the batteries if they are docked/in charger. [trickle charge eventually kills LSD batteries, reduces max cycles]

Secondly the phone charges the batteries in a pair, only, and thus one battery will always be undercharged and the other slightly overcharged even if you remove them once "full" indicator is displayed.


----------



## muzicman82

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Hi all,

I love this thread... although the reason I'm posting today is for your insight on an issue I have with eneloops. 

I have a lot of standard eneloop batteries, all purchased within the last 1-2 years. 

My biggest gripe with these is that it seems a lot of modern electronics are calibrated for alkaline voltage drop over time, and not NiMH... so some of my devices (electronic labeler for instance), shows low battery almost all the time. I usually just ignore it. However, some devices will stop functioning at a specific voltage, and when you test or put the batteries back in a charger, they appear to be 25-50% charged. 

Is there such a thing as NiMH batteries with higher nominal or fully charged voltage? How does everyone else handle this problem?


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Hello Muzicman82,

Welcome to CPF.

Your complaint isn't with the batteries... it is with the electronics you are using the batteries in.

I just put up with the low battery signal and recharge more often. I then rotate the batteries to an application that will do a more complete discharge, or discharge them on a charger. I do this about twice a year. This seems to keep the batteries working at peak efficiency.

Tom


----------



## etc

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

A very useful summary in OP, thank you. Sheds some light on confusing Eneloop date codes.

I just discarded some original Generation 1st AA eneloops dated 3UTG. Some get hot while charging. Do not remember the date of purchase but somewhere around 2008 time frame perhaps.


----------



## MaestroDaVinci

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

I have a question regarding the Panasonic Eneloop Batteries AA size and AAA size manufactured in 04/2015. So i have read multiple sources saying that an genuine Eneloops should have a crown on them, however i have bought a couple of battery packs that are missing the Crown. My question is: Is the current generation (Panasonic), have the crown?


----------



## etc

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

I don't remember seeing the crown on the latest blue type eneloops. I will double check when I can. 

It appears to be only on the previous generation if I am not mistaken, the first generation did not have it either.


----------



## MaestroDaVinci

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



etc said:


> I don't remember seeing the crown on the latest blue type eneloops. I will double check when I can.
> 
> It appears to be only on the previous generation if I am not mistaken, the first generation did not have it either.



Aha, because i can't find any info on the current generation, but for the previous generations there is a lot of info.


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

2017. Where is a reliable place to find the current generation Pro's in the US? I need a couple AAA Pro's. I would also be interested in finding a BQ-CC50.

https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/battery/eneloop/lineup.html


----------



## Burgess

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Thomas Distributing is WONDERFUL !


http://www.thomasdistributing.com/?...mwOuKOK4qtzFkC084p0VgMlGBbHeqAD7w-BoC9hzw_wcB


----------



## Capolini

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

What is the BEST charging rate for AAA Ni-MH 750mAh Enloops?

I have seen .5C[1A] and 500mAh?

,Thanks,,,,,,Capolini


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

I'd go 500 mAh if those were your 2 options.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Only 1200 cycles what are these FAILED Eneloops??

*Panasonic Infinium AA Rechargeable Batteries - 2100 mAh - Pre-Charged
*
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000O57LSU/

John.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Although it would probably best to open a new thread for that, by how they look, they look like the Panasonic Evolta that are being sold in Japan. I havent checked their max life cycles. But i imagine them being the same cells.. Probably made in china?


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



muzicman82 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I love this thread... although the reason I'm posting today is for your insight on an issue I have with eneloops.
> 
> I have a lot of standard eneloop batteries, all purchased within the last 1-2 years.
> 
> My biggest gripe with these is that it seems a lot of modern electronics are calibrated for alkaline voltage drop over time, and not NiMH... so some of my devices (electronic labeler for instance), shows low battery almost all the time. I usually just ignore it. However, some devices will stop functioning at a specific voltage, and when you test or put the batteries back in a charger, they appear to be 25-50% charged.
> 
> Is there such a thing as NiMH batteries with higher nominal or fully charged voltage? How does everyone else handle this problem?



Fenix has so USB rechargeable ones. 1.5v but in lithium-ion. Not ni-mh.
https://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-arb-l14-1600u-usb-rechargeable-li-ion-14500-battery/


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



muzicman82 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I love this thread... although the reason I'm posting today is for your insight on an issue I have with eneloops.
> 
> I have a lot of standard eneloop batteries, all purchased within the last 1-2 years.
> 
> My biggest gripe with these is that it seems a lot of modern electronics are calibrated for alkaline voltage drop over time, and not NiMH... so some of my devices (electronic labeler for instance), shows low battery almost all the time. I usually just ignore it. However, some devices will stop functioning at a specific voltage, and when you test or put the batteries back in a charger, they appear to be 25-50% charged.
> 
> Is there such a thing as NiMH batteries with higher nominal or fully charged voltage? How does everyone else handle this problem?



Surprisingly i don't run into this problem often but i usually prefer to recharge the Eneloops when they are at 50% anyway to extend their life and recharge them in the C9000 since the charger will only charge to 90% and then top off the last 10% so they are never really overcharged.


----------



## benjimon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Just ordered some from Amazon UK. 

They have the Chinese part number which is now identical to the Japan part number. The listing picture says 70% for 10 years so i'm expecting Japanese cells, maybe the website needs updating? 

Direct from Panasonic by the way. The only way I guess you can really tell is by getting the cells and seeing what the label says. 

The E on the end of the part number nearly put me off.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



benjimon said:


> Just ordered some from Amazon UK.
> 
> They have the Chinese part number which is now identical to the Japan part number. The listing picture says 70% for 10 years so i'm expecting Japanese cells, maybe the website needs updating?
> 
> Direct from Panasonic by the way. The only way I guess you can really tell is by getting the cells and seeing what the label says.
> 
> The E on the end of the part number nearly put me off.



Can you be a little more specific?
BK-3MCC is the Japanese code, the added E can mean Europe but also Chinese cells. The list is well up to date, I should probably just be a bit clearer with the codes if you can tell me what is not clear for you. Thanks.btw if you look on my website you should have the latest updates in case some things are a bit off in this thread.


----------



## benjimon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Sorry. 

I assumed the part number at the end of the Japanese cells was "A/E" not A or E. 

Therefore I originally thought the chart was showing that only Chinese Cells end with "E". Where as the once I buy have an E but are also Japanese.

To make clearer in the updated 2015 AA and AAA eneloops the part number can also end with E. My cells are made in japan and end with E but they also state 10 year life.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

I understand. I am always thinking how to write things down. A/E could look like a code but really is A or E. If there is a better way to write is please let me know as I will be open to suggestions. But keep in mind that i like to keep it as short as possible and not have multiple lines for essentially the same battery. Let me know when there is anything else unclear.


----------



## benjimon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



ChibiM said:


> I understand. I am always thinking how to write things down. A/E could look like a code but really is A or E. If there is a better way to write is please let me know as I will be open to suggestions. But keep in mind that i like to keep it as short as possible and not have multiple lines for essentially the same battery. Let me know when there is anything else unclear.



No problem, very nice website. 

[FONT=&quot][h=3]4th Generation Updated 2015 (Panasonic)[/h]

BK-4MCC 2100 cycles Min. 750 mAh (AAA-size)
BK-3MCC 2100 cycels Min. 1900 mAh (AA-size)




[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

AA and AAA: Claimed 70% capacity left after 10 years (*3/*6)
Launch date AA and AAA: 2015) (*2/*7)
Sometimes referred to as 5th generation BUT are not.. These only use a new type of testing standard. 




[/FONT]


The part numbers for this bit can also end in A/E


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Thanks a lot for the! Good point. I just edited it. 
If you find anything else, feel free to let me know. I must have missed more than just that  
BTW my eneloop chargers page is about finished, and Im starting on the eneloopy page...which will take a few more days to finish.


----------



## benjimon

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



ChibiM said:


> Thanks a lot for the! Good point. I just edited it.
> If you find anything else, feel free to let me know. I must have missed more than just that
> BTW my eneloop chargers page is about finished, and Im starting on the eneloopy page...which will take a few more days to finish.



No problem, not sure how you could, maybe an article. 

But explain a bit more clear how to differentiate between BK-4MCC A/E. They can be japanese, japanese updated or chinese. 

I couldn't find that good of a resource when finding them, luckily they were japanese.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*



benjimon said:


> No problem, not sure how you could, maybe an article.
> 
> But explain a bit more clear how to differentiate between BK-4MCC A/E. They can be japanese, japanese updated or chinese.
> 
> I couldn't find that good of a resource when finding them, luckily they were japanese.



BK-3MCCA and BK-4MCCA are always made in Japan. 
the E can be made in made in Japan or China. 

The way you can differentiate them, is to look at the claims of the remaining capacity after x years. 
The newest (since 2015) Japaense cells have 70% after 10 years. The Chinese 70% after 5 years. Another indicator would be the country you live in. If you are in the Oceania region (new zealand, australia, south east asia) you are likely to get Chinese cells. And when you live in China you can get Japanese cells.. funny right?

I am thinking about adding a Japanese vs Chinese eneloops page as well.. might be useful.. just a littl worried Im getting a bit too many pages on my website


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Benjimon, I have updated the page about how to understand the coding


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Panasonic announced a new charger for Europe. 
The BQ-CC65






Including LCD screen and Refresh function.
They didnt specify when they are going to be available.


----------



## Behemot

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

Their retail chargers and packs are so expensive everybody always just looks and goes away. Maybe if this new more advanced one costed same or less as the old black chargers, but as I know Panasonic, it will be even more expensive…


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2016*

You could be right. I think the bq cc55 is about $15 dont think that is very expensive. The nee cc65 is likely to be quite a bit more. Im looking forward to getting more info on that soon.


----------



## N4SRN

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

I bought a few dozen Eneloop 4thG in 2015 and I pull them out from mini-lanterns and flashlights and charge them once a year. Typically, the charger shows them at 1/2 charge or less, which seems surprising for this battery. Is there a simple device I might use to check them right after charging and then when if pull them to recharge, to get real data on discharge state?

Bret/N4SRN


----------



## archimedes

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



N4SRN said:


> .... Is there a simple device I might use to check them right after charging and then when if pull them to recharge, to get real data on discharge state?
> 
> Bret/N4SRN



Battery load tester


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Eneloop Europe is going to have some nice new limited editions in August 2017
Check out all the 21 special eneloops on my website


----------



## evn

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

I am posting in this topic to describe a problem with a Panasonic product. Some months ago I bought several units of the product that have the code K-KJ17KHCA4A (it's 4 Eneloop Pro batteries with a BQ-CC17 charger) these products was received from B&H. I started to receive some complaints about damaged and possible counterfeit products. People was describing that the plastic borders of the batteries was damaged. Initially I tough that would be possible it was happening when taking the batteries out of the charger, because the batteries are pushed inside the charger with a paper blocking the upper contacts and it generates a lot of pressure. So the borders would be getting damaged rubbing the lower side of the batteries in the lower contacts of the charger. But even asking to people take care, they was still complaining. I started to look at the products I had still sealed, and in one of them I could see that one of the batteries was damaged inside the sealed package. This product I recorded in video being opened and it had 3 of the 4 batteries already with the borders damaged. As I never heard of anything like that, I was searching for similar complaints, I found some in B&H, some made 2 years ago and then found a lot of complaints in Amazon.

I don't have sure how many products are received this way, as the problem is very hard to detect looking from outside of the package, the package is sealed and sometimes I think people notice but don't complain thinking it was their fault. In 18 units, I received 3 complaints and found 2 damaged myself after opening it. This represents more than 25% of products with some degree of damage. I suppose this problem happens in the assembly when the batteries are pushed into the charger with the paper in the upper contact, inserting first the top contact and then pushing the bottom contact can do that because the paper let the space tighter (I think if the assembly was made inserting first the lower contact then the top, this would not happen), then the damage stays hidden behind the batteries and the product is packaged and sold. (again, I suppose)

I don't have a big quantity of products to use as a reference and I started selling this kind of product just by a few months. But I can find a lot of similar complaints that are even 2 years old. To make sure the batteries are not counterfeit I tested it in a MH-C9000 analyzer, the capacity I found is coherent 2450~2500mAh using break-in mode. I kept some batteries charged to test weeks later and see if it holds 85% of the charge as stated. (I am still waiting to test it)

I tried to contact Panasonic to describe the problem and received a lot of evasive answers, they never denied nor confirmed they know about it, but they didn't affirmed the batteries could be counterfeit either, they asked pictures and the codes of the batteries and just offered to replace it. I was waiting this happen until today to see what Panasonic would send me. Unfortunately the package content was stolen when sent through UPS, the package was delivered with signs of tampering and empty.

However, the invoice shows that Panasonic sent a different product than the one they said would be sent, instead of the promised K-KJ17KHCA4A units, the invoice shows one BK-3HCCA8BA, these are batteries without the charger. I would not be able to see if the problem persists with products sent directly from Panasonic anyway. So I will not wait again their answer before post this.

I gave enough time to Panasonic to say something about it, the batteries seems to be genuine, but the worst part is that I don't know how many products comes with this problem or if any other model have the same problem. Even products sold in Japan seems to actually have the charger made in China, the assembly I don't know where it is made. I noticed that the chargers had some scratches too that could not happen inside the package. In this case I think the charger is the same in USA or Japan. The problem seems big and seems old.

If anybody bought batteries with chargers from Panasonic and want to comment about it.

Follows pictures of the problem. Notice that the problem cannot be easily seen before taking the batteries out of the charger (that I did with infinite care).


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Thats pretty problematic. I hope BH and Panasonic can look at this and improve their packaging. BH must have had more complaints. So far I have not heard of it happening with sets being sold in Japan. 
I hope all the best for you.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Has anyone bought Red eneloops that are currently sold in the US?


----------



## aginthelaw

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



ChibiM said:


> Has anyone bought Red eneloops that are currently sold in the US?



From which store?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Think Walmart or Costco...or both


----------



## evn

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



ChibiM said:


> Thats pretty problematic. I hope BH and Panasonic can look at this and improve their packaging. BH must have had more complaints. So far I have not heard of it happening with sets being sold in Japan.
> I hope all the best for you.




I don't think BH is the source of the problem, I informed that these products was purchased from them anyway to contextualize the problem. BH is aware of the problem, actually they cannot say they "didn't knew about it" if anybody else complaint. BH sell sealed packages and this mostly cannot be seen without opening the package. Amazon have complaints too. Panasonic stopped answering my e-mails, with that kind of attitude I don't have sure they have interest to do anything about it any soon, unfortunately.


----------



## carnage

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



archimedes said:


> Battery load tester



Which battery load tester is good?


----------



## archimedes

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



carnage said:


> Which battery load tester is good?


I use the ones from ZTS.


----------



## carnage

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



archimedes said:


> I use the ones from ZTS.




Thanks for the reply!
I google the ZTS battery tester and I found 2. Which one were you referring to the Mini or the MBT-1?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



carnage said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> I google the ZTS battery tester and I found 2. Which one were you referring to the Mini or the MBT-1?




I took a look at the mine here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/BatteryTester ZTS Mini-MBT UK.html


----------



## archimedes

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



carnage said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> I google the ZTS battery tester and I found 2. Which one were you referring to the Mini or the MBT-1?


They make 4 different models, each covering different (partially overlapping) battery types.


----------



## carnage

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



HKJ said:


> I took a look at the mine here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/BatteryTester ZTS Mini-MBT UK.html




Thanks for the reply! Did you happen to examine the ZTS MBT-1 yet? Does these meters measure the battery under load? Which meter will be perfect for the flashlight hobby? Do you know if all ZTS meter have the same accuracy? Sorry for all the questions!


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



carnage said:


> Thanks for the reply! Did you happen to examine the ZTS MBT-1 yet? Does these meters measure the battery under load? Which meter will be perfect for the flashlight hobby? Do you know if all ZTS meter have the same accuracy? Sorry for all the questions!



I have only looked at the mini. They put a load on the battery, but I do not now if they only uses the voltage under load or a combination of loaded and unloaded voltage to get the remaining capacity.
You select meter depending on what type of batteries you use, LiIon can be measured with a ordinary digital voltmeter (Loading is not necessary).


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Hello Henrik,

The ZTS testers measure voltage under load. They then compare the results with their data bank of tests for each type of cell and using this look up information give you an idea of the remaining capacity.

They typically use name brand cells to populate their data sets so off brand cells may give different results if they are unable to maintain voltage under load.

Tom


----------



## carnage

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



SilverFox said:


> Hello Henrik,
> 
> The ZTS testers measure voltage under load. They then compare the results with their data bank of tests for each type of cell and using this look up information give you an idea of the remaining capacity.
> 
> They typically use name brand cells to populate their data sets so off brand cells may give different results if they are unable to maintain voltage under load.
> 
> Tom



If you have or have access to the ZTS MBT-1 have you check the accuracy of it?


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Hello Carnage,

I have a custom ZTS tester. It was modified to include testing for CR123 primary cells at a higher current rate. The other functions are stock and I forget what I gave up to include the CR123 testing.

If you are testing a cell that is similar in performance to what they have in their database, it is reasonably accurate. If you have an off brand cell that has a little different performance curve, the results will be off. However, they will be consistently off so you can make a note of differences and work with those differences.

It is not precise in its reporting but gives a reasonably accurate big picture of what is going on with your cells capacity. 

Tom


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



carnage said:


> If you have or have access to the ZTS MBT-1 have you check the accuracy of it?



As I posted above, I have only checked the mini, bit I would expect the precision to be about the same.


----------



## carnage

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Thanks for the replies guys, Its much appreciated!


----------



## evn

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Commenting about the problem I saw with the batteries that came with the BQ-CC17 charger. I was reading the official manuals hosted by Panasonic. http://main.panasonic-eneloop.eu/sites/default/files/1_BQ-CC17.pdf and http://main.panasonic-eneloop.eu/sites/default/files/4_BQ-CC55.pdf The BQ-CC17 manual says to insert AA batteries with the positive terminal first, then insert the negative terminal, but to insert AAA batteries with the negative terminal first then the positive. The BQ-CC55 is a charger with a similar shape, it has a similar drawing in the manual but it says to insert the AA batteries in reverse order (first the negative terminal then the positive terminal) and AAA batteries in that same order. It even justify this with "If an AAA battery is inserted from the positive (+) end first, the negative (-) terminal on the charger may be damaged."

In my opinion the BQ-CC17 manual is wrong instructing people to insert AA batteries in that order, who is assembling the product can damage the batteries by simply following the official manual.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Thats an interesting observation evn.


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

I insert mine + terminal first. I have a similar format MQN03RNU (just with 2x AAA slots). There's a lip on the + side of the charger and it damages the battery wrapping if I insert - first.

An observation BTW, the button tops on my Harmolattice ard shorter than my other Eneloops. So in some lights and gadgets, they don't reach the terminals enough to make contact.


----------



## carnage

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

I didn't read the whole thread. Does anyone knows if the Duracell Nimh battery are rewrap Eneloop?


----------



## Ray F.

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

ChibiM, I was shopping Amazon and noticed AAA Eneloop Pros rated 950mAh. I referred to your website (nice site - thanks for setting that up) and saw that 5th generation are actually rated less (930mAh) than 4th generation. Any insight as to why?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



Ray F. said:


> ChibiM, I was shopping Amazon and noticed AAA Eneloop Pros rated 950mAh. I referred to your website (nice site - thanks for setting that up) and saw that 5th generation are actually rated less (930mAh) than 4th generation. Any insight as to why?



Hi,
Thanks. 
I understand the confusion. But please check the page one more time: https://eneloop101.com/batteries/complete-lineup/
And look at the 2 kinds of numbers, Typical and Minimum Capacity. The 5th gen have no Typ mentioned on the package, just Min capacity. At least not in Japan.


----------



## Ray F.

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



ChibiM said:


> Hi,
> Thanks.
> I understand the confusion. But please check the page one more time: http://eneloop101.com/batteries/complete-lineup/
> And look at the 2 kinds of numbers, Typical and Minimum Capacity. The 5th gen have no Typ mentioned on the package, just Min capacity. At least not in Japan.



Very interesting. Thank you for that very subtle observation.


----------



## BloodLust

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2013*

Jupt got a pair of single AA to D cell adapters.
The local battery supplier was selling it for $5.
Also got a few AA/AAA battery carriers.


----------



## eteless

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

I recently noticed that some of my batteries were not lasting very well at all so started an effort to better characterize them and understand how they have aged using a C9000, the cells are a mix of generations and date from 2009, 2010 and 2012 - they were all bought in small batches (around 40 at a time) from a large distributor so I don't believe they are counterfeit. Because of how long they have been in use almost all of the cells will have been cycled at least one (or more likely several) thousand times as they have been rotated through various lights / camera flashes / hand warmers, and charged on a MAHA C800S. As I don't have many batteries in use (around 100 total) they don't normally get to sit around for long and are often in constant use.

What surprised me is the older cells don't seem to be failing at a higher rate and don't appear to show any higher 'wear', rather there is surprisingly little variation and most cells are either close enough to their nominal rated capacity(1900mah) to not cause problems or down at 1500-1600mah (which would cause problems). 


However it raises a question: What do you do with batteries which are still mostly functional (they don't seem to self discharge at a higher rate), but have a lowered capacity due to years of service? or am I being too sentimental and should just throw them out?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

That by itself is a great testimony  

Why throw them out if they still work fine? You could possibly group them so the lower capacity could be used with devices that don`t need the max draw. Give them to some family/friends with kids that can use them in their toys.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



kreisl said:


>



I like that name in there Kreisl


----------



## percentage

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Can anyone recommend a supplier for guaranteed made-in-Japan Eneloop Lites? I know from ChibiM's great info that they distribute the made-in-China ones in Japan, so I'm thinking ordering them from a non-Japan seller may be best. Perhaps Amazon.co.uk?


----------



## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

So, after 19 pages, has it been determined that there's 1) good Eneloops and how to identify them , 2) bad Eneloops and how to identify them, and 3) trusted sellers of good Eneloops?

I believe that information would make an excellent reference sticky.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



percentage said:


> Can anyone recommend a supplier for guaranteed made-in-Japan Eneloop Lites? I know from ChibiM's great info that they distribute the made-in-China ones in Japan, so I'm thinking ordering them from a non-Japan seller may be best. Perhaps Amazon.co.uk?



Hi, Thanks for asking. I think you misunderstood my info  The only Made in China eneloops that are sold in Japan are the LITE version. Other types are all made in Japan. If you go to my website I have a page with "Where to buy eneloops". I also linked to the Japanese Amazon where you can get PANASONIC eneloop batteries. (big lettertype PANASONIC small font eneloop) and Amazon UK.
If you wait a few days/weeks you could get the special edition, eneloops tones expedition. For now I only saw them on Amazon.co.uk


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



kilogulf59 said:


> So, after 19 pages, has it been determined that there's 1) good Eneloops and how to identify them , 2) bad Eneloops and how to identify them, and 3) trusted sellers of good Eneloops?
> 
> I believe that information would make an excellent reference sticky.


As long as you buy Made in Japan eneloops you are good to go. I really think my overview page is clear enough to distinguish the different eneloops, seen in the first post, and on my website. Trusted seller in the US is Amazon for example.


----------



## percentage

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



ChibiM said:


> Hi, Thanks for asking. I think you misunderstood my info  The only Made in China eneloops that are sold in Japan are the LITE version. Other types are all made in Japan.


I did understand, and I said the same thing :

"Can anyone recommend a supplier for guaranteed *made-in-Japan Eneloop Lites*? I know from ChibiM's great info that *they distribute the made-in-China ones [Lites] in Japan*"



ChibiM said:


> If you go to my website I have a page with "Where to buy eneloops". I also linked to the Japanese Amazon where you can get PANASONIC eneloop batteries. (big lettertype PANASONIC small font eneloop) and Amazon UK.


My concern was that if I ordered Lites from Japan, I would get the Chinese ones, therefore Amazon Japan would not work. Maybe Amazon UK would work, but their Lite offerings are limited (2 x AA, 3 or 4 x AAA).

I found an eBay seller in the Netherlands who lists the Japanese Lite part numbers (BK-3LCCE/2BE, BK-4LCCE/4BE), so I may try ordering from them.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Oops..yes, overlooked that  

Well, eneloop lite are only available in 2,3 and 4 packs. And yes, if you go for the PANASONIC (big font) which are the ones sold in Japan, are made in China.. 
I just checked that the ones that are sold in Japan, AA and AAA lite are only sold in 2-packs! (not 3, 4, 8, 12)
In the EU eneloop AA lite are only sold in 2-packs. 
In the EU eneloop AAA lite are sold in 2, 3 and 4 packs 
In the US and Canada no eneloop lites are officially distributed. Please let me know if that is correct!?


----------



## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



ChibiM said:


> As long as you buy Made in Japan eneloops you are good to go. I really think my overview page is clear enough to distinguish the different eneloops, seen in the first post, and on my website. Trusted seller in the US is Amazon for example.



Thank you very much and very nice work...I hadn't realized you were continually updating it.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



kilogulf59 said:


> Thank you very much and very nice work...I hadn't realized you were continually updating it.


My pleasure to help out!


----------



## carnage

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

What are the Eneloop Lite design for? Are they good in low drain devices?

I seen them advertised on Amazon by a second party. I think there probably from China they said made in Japan.


----------



## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Help out is an understatement! Between the thread starter and your web page it like getting a PhD in Eneloop...simply amazing, I cannot thank you enough.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



carnage said:


> What are the Eneloop Lite design for? Are they good in low drain devices?
> I seen them advertised on Amazon by a second party. I think there probably from China they said made in Japan.


It`s hard to say. If they are older stock from Japan (2013-2016) they are made in Japan. If newer stock than made in China. You should probably check with the seller. 



kilogulf59 said:


> Help out is an understatement! Between the thread starter and your web page it like getting a PhD in Eneloop...simply amazing, I cannot thank you enough.


 LOL Thank you for appreciating my help


----------



## Lampas

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Awesome thread, thanks for all the information. Love my eneloops, mostly in household items.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

@ChibiM , I couldn't find on your website the information how Panasonic does the testing of Eneloops to achieve the 1800-2100x cycle rating. 

Question (FAQ ;-) :
How does Panasonic cycle the Eneloops in tests to achieve the advertised 1800-2100 cycle number rating? Do you know the testing conditions and parameters? And what is the technical criterion to call the end of the test?

The retail packages cite §7.5.1.3 afaik of IEC , but only few people know what's it saying. Maybe you could write out the full testing conditions\parameters or summarize them in a nutshell🐁. Or do you think that it is not interesting to know how Panasonic tests their own batteries?

For example do they use 1000mA charge rate and -500mA discharge rate for the cycling and 0.90V as cut-off? (These are the default values MH-C9000 and CPF users use)


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



kreisl said:


> @ChibiM , I couldn't find on your website the information how Panasonic does the testing of Eneloops to achieve the 1800-2100x cycle rating.
> 
> Question (FAQ ;-) :
> How does Panasonic cycle the Eneloops in tests to achieve the advertised 1800-2100 cycle number rating? Do you know the testing conditions and parameters? And what is the technical criterion to call the end of the test?
> 
> The retail packages cite §7.5.1.3 afaik of IEC , but only few people know what's it saying. Maybe you could write out the full testing conditions\parameters or summarize them in a nutshell. Or do you think that it is not interesting to know how Panasonic tests their own batteries?
> 
> For example do they use 1000mA charge rate and -500mA discharge rate for the cycling and 0.90V as cut-off? (These are the default values MH-C9000 and CPF users use)



Hey Kreisl, 
Interesting question. Well, I do know (partly) how they test them (Thanks to member Viking here on CPF), so I could probably summarize that on my site somewhere. I might have to put that in the FAQ or in the Charge section. The thing is though that even with the IEC and JIS documents I watched I still have unanswered questions myself  So if people ask me questions about the details I might not be able to answer them satisfactory. 

At least I can say for now that the test will be stopped when the remaining capacity it 60% of the original capacity  (at least that is what I already have written somewhere on my site). And no, the testing parameters are not 1000mA charge and 500mA discharge parameters for the cycling rating. When I have time to dive into that again, I hope I will be able to make a summary that is somewhat understandable .
Maybe that Mark over at Ultrasmartcharger.com already wrote about the these parameters.... somewhere


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Thanks for your consideration.
I don't have JIS , just IEC . And it's effing complicated, can't wrap my nuts around it. But maybe you can manage!!


----------



## ProfJim

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



kreisl said:


> @ChibiM , I couldn't find on your website the information how Panasonic does the testing of Eneloops to achieve the 1800-2100x cycle rating.
> 
> Question (FAQ ;-) :
> How does Panasonic cycle the Eneloops in tests to achieve the advertised 1800-2100 cycle number rating? Do you know the testing conditions and parameters? And what is the technical criterion to call the end of the test?
> 
> The retail packages cite §7.5.1.3 afaik of IEC , but only few people know what's it saying. Maybe you could write out the full testing conditions\parameters or summarize them in a nutshell. Or do you think that it is not interesting to know how Panasonic tests their own batteries?
> 
> For example do they use 1000mA charge rate and -500mA discharge rate for the cycling and 0.90V as cut-off? (These are the default values MH-C9000 and CPF users use)


Check out *Eneloops: 5000 cycles and still going...* thread for some answers. 
Poking around Mark's UltraSmartCharger forum should provide some additional information.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



ChibiM said:


> Eneloop Europe is going to have some nice new limited editions in August 2017
> Check out all the 21 special eneloops on my website


They are now available for order at Amazon UK, Germany, Italy and Spain!


----------



## Burgess

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

But not USA ? ? ?


:sigh:
_


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Nope. I think the reason for that is because the eneloop 2100 expedition is concentrated on Europe. So I assume they will (at least for now) only be available in Europe.


----------



## Macan

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Hello. Is there any advantage to purchasing the 5th generation eneloop pro BK-3HCD over the 4th generation? Thank you.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



Macan said:


> Hello. Is there any advantage to purchasing the 5th generation eneloop pro BK-3HCD over the 4th generation? Thank you.


You`ll get the newer ones! 
If you can get them both at the same store for the same price, go with the newest. If you can save a few dollars you could go for the older ones. Not a big deal... enjoy


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Any updates to the two cell AA/AAA portable charger? I’ve got one from a couple years ago at this point. I need a couple new 5th AA/AAA’s Pro’s and figure to replace both at the same time.


----------



## markr6

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

I almost never use eneloops anymore. Cheap kids toys are not worthy, flashlights use 18650. But I just got a blood pressure monitor using 4xAA that supposedly eats up batteries. I pulled some eneloops out of my drawer that seem to be paired - manufactured 4/2011. After a couple cycles on the Opus 3100, they're all showing 1994mAh-2040mAh.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

@bmstrong: I dont think there are any 2-bays that charge fast and smart. The BQ-CC23 is probably the latest 2-bay in their lineup, which is from 2013
@markr6: eneloops all the way


----------



## marinemaster

*Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

18650 has its place. But half the time is a specialized purpose battery.
Zebralight and Eneloop AA where made for each other. For general use there is no better combo as far as practically, cost, reliability and EDC.


----------



## Keitho

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Gotta agree with that, Zebralight and eneloops are a useful combo, I use every day. "General use" and EDC is a wide swath, though, and there are lots of use cases that demand greater efficiency than NiMH systems can deliver. Luckily, Zebralight has other choices to feed my habit!


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Good points. Yes, more and more applications use lithium (ion) batteries. But the eneloops still have their place!

On another note, yesterday I changed the layout of the website, and had a little struggle with getting everything in place again. Probably there are still some problems with a layout, so if you see anything, let me please know!


----------



## jcvjcvjcvjcv

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



ChibiM said:


> They are now available for order at Amazon UK, Germany, Italy and Spain!



You are now parttime located in NL?

Those colors are nice. The Ocean ones before overlapped with previous colored sets and the normal ones, these don't.

But I need sets of five, so I would end up with four left over :/

(Yes, Nikon SB-800 flash eats sets of 5)


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



jcvjcvjcvjcv said:


> You are now parttime located in NL?
> 
> Those colors are nice. The Ocean ones before overlapped with previous colored sets and the normal ones, these don't.
> 
> But I need sets of five, so I would end up with four left over :/
> 
> (Yes, Nikon SB-800 flash eats sets of 5)


Hi, no, full-time. I am back in the Netherlands, where I`m originally from  
I like these ones as well! I ordered an AA and AAA set. 
They are also available in the Netherlands at batterij huis and nkon.nl. 
Oh.. intersting, didnt know the SB800 needed 5 batteries. hmmm Im pretty sure you could use the spare 4 for something else useful! Like a flashlight or something. hihi


----------



## rczrider

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

This may be a dumb question, but: should I buy some IKEA LADDA AA batteries?

I don't have an IKEA anywhere near where I live, but will be traveling later this week and will be right around the corner from one that has plenty of AA LADDAs in stock. I've been burning through my remaining alkalines and plan on having nothing but rechargeables, so I'll need some AA batteries soon. I believe the general consensus is that the white Japanese LADDAs are re-wrapped Eneloop Pros and at $7 for 4, they seem like a good deal. Any reason _not_ to buy them (ie. are there better LSD NiMH batteries for the price)?

Follow-up #1: Should I treat these differently than standard non-Pro Eneloops or non-LSD NiMH batteries? I currently have a La Crosse BC-700 charger, but have a LiitoKala Lii-500 Engineer on the way (should be here in 3-4 weeks). I haven't read up too much on them, but I have found several mentions of a "break-in" period for the Pros in order to get the maximum capacity and life. Also, I generally just charge my batteries whenever I think about it and they're not usually fully discharged when I pop them in the La Crosse. Any advice on the best way to take care of my new batteries?

Follow-up #2: What are the best uses for the Pros? I have an LED camera flash that only uses 2 AAs and I like to keep an extra pair with the camera, just in case. I have smoke alarms that use a couple of AAs. My front door is a battery-powered keypad/deadbolt. Like most (if not all) of you, I have a variety of LED flashlights. Digital kitchen scale, remote controls, some kids' toys. Are the LADDA/Eneloop Pro batteries especially suited for one type of situation over another (like camera flash versus smoke alarm)?

Thanks!


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Hey rczrider. 
Why shouldnt you?
1.Just use your La Crosse and Liitokala. Both should do well! Don`t worry. 
2.White Ladda for high drain devices, tan Ladda for low drain devices.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Got myself a fake eneloop AAA pro, sent by CPF member HighLight.. thanks man! 

See the package being obvious fake.


----------



## InvisibleFrodo

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

The eneloop pros are best suited to high drain devices like your camera flash. They don't hold their charge as well during storage, and so in ultra low drain devices like your smoke detector or television remote, you would almost certainly be better off using standard eneloops. Even in a flashlight, I would say the eneloop pros are only good in a light that gets frequent maybe even heavy use. For a light that spends most of its time waiting for the occasional brief use and then back to waiting, I would recommend standard eneloops.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

The new P*anasonic BQ-CC65* is available now! 
If you are living in Europe get them here: https://eneloop101.com/where-to-buy/#in-europe(link is external) 
If you are from outside the EU check this out: https://eneloop101.com/where-to-buy/#other-sellers-with-worldwide-shipping(link is external)


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Made a vid with the fake eneloop pro package. It was too difficult to get the batteriesc in focus. So for now just the package. I found more mistakes.


----------



## MaestroDaVinci

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

I have a question regarding the new *Panasonic BQ-CC65 *charger. I have seen pretty much all of the other versions would either have batteries with the charger or will not, however i can't seem to find this product with batteries. Does anyone know if this one will be available with batteries or it would be just the charger itself.

[COLOR=inherit !important]


[/COLOR]


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

As far as I know the BQ CC65 is currently only available without batteries.


----------



## IlluminationDomination

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Thank you for all the valuable information.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

In for a win of an Eneloop 4AA set? or 4AAA set?

I'm currently doing an *Eneloop giveaway* here on Candlepowerforums: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...veAway-Eneloop-batteries-4xAA-4xAAA&p=5186875


----------



## HighLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Just got 16 White Eneloop AA's from Costco in Canada at a good price. They seem to be the latest versions e.g. can be charged up to 2100 times and retain 70% of their charge after 10 years....BUT I'm reading the small print on the back of the package and it states that these cells are NOT to be used in a water proof flashlight or in any device with an airtight battery compartment??? These applications are my primary reason for buying/using Eneloops. Does this mean I have to stop using them for these purposes?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



HighLight said:


> Just got 16 White Eneloop AA's from Costco in Canada at a good price. They seem to be the latest versions e.g. can be charged up to 2100 times and retain 70% of their charge after 10 years....BUT I'm reading the small print on the back of the package and it states that these cells are NOT to be used in a water proof flashlight or in any device with an airtight battery compartment??? These applications are my primary reason for buying/using Eneloops. Does this mean I have to stop using them for these purposes?



Good questio. This could help you: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?243109-Eneloop-s-safe-in-Waterproof-lights

The interesting thing is that Panasonic collaborated with Under The Pole, a research team who does research under water in the Pole region. Not sure if they used eneloop batteries in their lights though.

http://main.panasonic-eneloop.eu/nl/news/third-expedition-under-pole-back-land-0


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*


Part 2 of the fake eneloop pro AAA. The sellers on eBay that sell fake eneloops are: 2009china*electronic and 2017china*electronic.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

I've got another video up comparing fake Eneloop PRO AA I bought from the sellers mentioned above. 
First I checked the differences on the packages, then I did a discharge test (keep in mind that eneloops are not charged 100% before being shipped) and the fakes ones? No idea. 

Then I also did a charge and a discharge test. The discharge test revealed the difference enough... Almost 2500mAh for the eneloop Pro, and 2100 for the fakes.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

BTW my next video is going to be a discharge test of 2 pieces of 10 year old eneloops. 1st generation, manufactured in April 2008. (unused, still inside their original Japanese package)
Looking much forward to that.


----------



## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Thanks ChibiM nice work.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

And finally the discharge test video is up. 

Arghhhhh I hate (and at the same time like it a little) to edit video. I recorded the discharge for a few hours, which ended up in huge files.. and had trouble editing them on my pc. first my copy of the Cyberlink Powereditor couldnt speed up the video. Then I installed a few free ones including Shotcut and that bogged down my pc a lot. It even got to the point that it didnt show parts of the video, moved my added text and transitions went bad.. no idea how that all happened but the video is done.... not perfect, but it will show the results, and that is what counts. 

And during the discharge I opened up the SkyRC App and clicked on the wrong button which stopped the first discharge... I added the other cell, and they were both pretty close.


----------



## id30209

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

Great info/update. Just confirms what we know for years.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

Yep. But it is always good to have more 'proof'


----------



## Ray F.

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

Nice!


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*







New eneloop batteries June 2018. Not available yet looks like... 
https://eneloop101.com/batteries/eneloop-limited-edition/


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

I just updated the different PDFs on the website with the overviews.. 
all regular eneloop batteries 2005-2018 and all eneloop limited editions 2009-2018


----------



## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

Thanks, your site is excellent.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

Thanks kilogulf59! 

If you find some mistakes on the website, let me know.. Or if something is missing


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

The giveaway on the eneloop101 facebook page is live.

Https://facebook.com/eneloop101/


----------



## J888www

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

Eneloop is a Brand, now belong to Panasonic but the only factory in Japan that manufactures LSD batteries has been sold to Fujitsu.

Japanese always keep the best for themselves, always, it's a Japanese "Thing" so you can be sure the Takasaki battery plant will manufacture the best Eneloop available on the market for Panasonic......but
As technology advances, you can also be sure that Fujitsu who now owns the Takasaki plant will keep something better aside, away from their competitors (Panasonic). 

Arguably the best *L*ow *S*elf *D*ischarge batteries are no long Eneloop batteries.

Fujitsu Pro Black batteries are as good if not better than any Eneloop, or very soon will overtake Eneloop in everyway.

It's a Japanese _Thing _to be better, to have the best, to be the best at all costs_._


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

Hey J888www, 

That is highly possible. But why the assumptions? It's already more than 5 years ago, and still they are at the top. Sure that is possible.

I deleted the rest of my post after I read your sig line...


----------



## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*



J888www said:


> Arguably the best *L*ow *S*elf *D*ischarge batteries are no long Eneloop batteries.
> 
> Fujitsu Pro Black batteries are as good if not better than any Eneloop, or very soon will overtake Eneloop in everyway.


 "The best" is a relative term.



J888www said:


> It's a Japanese _Thing _to be better, to have the best, to be the best at all costs_._


 True.


----------



## NiMHi

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

Based on tests by AACycler I think that the Fujitsu AA (HR-3UTC) might indeed perform better than latest Eneloop AA (BK-3MCCE). The cycle performance is better and lower internal resistance for Fujitsu. 

However! This is all based on only a few tested batteries and AACycler might also have switched to different chargers so I'm not sure the test methods were consistent. Still interesting difference. 

Fujitsu: http://aacycler.com/battery/aa/fujitsu-white/
Eneloop: http://aacycler.com/battery/aa/panasonic-eneloop/


----------



## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

So, in laymen's terms, and for practical purposes, either one is a good battery?

From a non-techno users perspective, I have some Amazon black with green top batteries that seem just as good as my Eneloop Pro's and whites.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*

Think you have a point kilogulf, I like your statement! 

It's not about the 1-3% extra capacity/cycle life, because both great batteries! 
I have learned that an increase in ambient temperature is one of the biggest reasons a LSD (eneloop) battery loses its charge faster. And Sanyo/Panasonic people have tested that. There is a great difference between 20 degrees celcius and 40 degrees celcius. So a discharge test during winter may result in a much better cycle life than in summer with even the same batteries.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2018*



ChibiM said:


> I have learned that an increase in ambient temperature is one of the biggest reans a LSD (eneloop) battery loses its charge faster. And Sanyo/Panasonic people have tested that. [...]



This is very well-known and not specific to LSD NiMh / eneloop. An increase in temperature causes an increase in the rate of internal side-reactions, which increases not only self-discharge but also various degradation processes, e.g. see the many occurrences of high temperature in the Batteries 2020 slides on ageing effects of Li-ion batteries.


----------



## jcvjcvjcvjcv

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*



ChibiM said:


> Hi, no, full-time. I am back in the Netherlands, where I`m originally from
> I like these ones as well! I ordered an AA and AAA set.
> They are also available in the Netherlands at batterij huis and nkon.nl.
> Oh.. intersting, didnt know the SB800 needed 5 batteries. hmmm Im pretty sure you could use the spare 4 for something else useful! Like a flashlight or something. hihi



SB800 can take 4, but is supplied with a holder that repaces the battery cap with a holder for a 5th battery. With five it recharges a lot faster after each flash and lasts longer on a set. 

In the past I've used left-over sets of 3 in a Maglite 3AA and smoke alarms. But the 3AA Maglites is out of use, the moke alarms are mostly gone too while I did stock up on SB800's. I guess I'll just order five sets of 8; then I have a two sets per color. For sets of four I already got the Tropical set x4.

For years I've been looking for battery cases that hold 5 AA's. Finally found cases for 10 AA's on aliexpress, but those are oversized a bit; the cells rattle.

So much easier than taping or marking cells.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2017*

Limited editions are the way to go!


----------



## AlpineBatteries

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

I recently found my long lost Fenix LD20 (2xAA) that was packed away when I moved and was left undiscovered in the crawl spaced since Jan 2010 for 8 1/2 years!!! Inside the flashlight were Sanyo Eneloop Gen 1's that were purchased in 2007 from Costco. Guess what? They fired up with full power. I messed with the light on high mode for about 15 minutes before popping the batteries out to top off. At .5A charge rate, it took a little over an hour to charge if I recall correctly. All I can say is WOW. I'm currently using the Panasonic Eneloops from Costco (purchased Oct. 2018) that come with 6xAA, 4xAAA, charger and c/d adaptors, in the green box.


----------



## jayb79

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

I just broke open a package that was buried on a shelf for a long time. The date code on the batteries is 06 09E5. I put then in the C9000 and discharged them at 500ma and all 4 had 1140mah left. Thats not bad for batteries sitting for 12 1/2 years.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



jayb79 said:


> I just broke open a package that was buried on a shelf for a long time. The date code on the batteries is 06 09E5. I put then in the C9000 and discharged them at 500ma and all 4 had 1140mah left. Thats not bad for batteries sitting for 12 1/2 years.



Hey jayb79 wow.. that is 60% left... after 12.5 years... 
But keeping in mind that eneloops didnt get shipped 100% fully charged (as they say) it's even more remakable! 

thanks for sharing!


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



AlpineBatteries said:


> I recently found my long lost Fenix LD20 (2xAA) that was packed away when I moved and was left undiscovered in the crawl spaced since Jan 2010 for 8 1/2 years!!! Inside the flashlight were Sanyo Eneloop Gen 1's that were purchased in 2007 from Costco. Guess what? They fired up with full power. I messed with the light on high mode for about 15 minutes before popping the batteries out to top off. At .5A charge rate, it took a little over an hour to charge if I recall correctly. All I can say is WOW. I'm currently using the Panasonic Eneloops from Costco (purchased Oct. 2018) that come with 6xAA, 4xAAA, charger and c/d adaptors, in the green box.



Great stuff as well! They literally changed the whole NiMH industry!


----------



## roymail

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Will the charger that came with my Panasonic Eneloops safely charge a pair of 14500 batteries? Thanks for your advice and help.


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Hello Roymail,

What is the chemistry of your 14500 batteries?

Eneloop chargers only work with NiMh.

Tom


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



SilverFox said:


> Hello Roymail,
> 
> What is the chemistry of your 14500 batteries?
> 
> Eneloop chargers only work with NiMh.
> 
> Tom



Clear answer! :thumbsup:


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Finally Panasonic added another battery charger to their curren lineup.... in Japan.....
It's quite an interesting one I have to say. (charger + powerbank + flashlight in 1)
Instead of a normal power cord, you can charge batteries using a USB charger! (Cord included, not the USB charger)
Plus they added a flashlight as an attachment so you'll be able to have light during emergencies! 


*Panasonic BQ-CC87 L (light)*


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Eneloop101 got a facelift. 
Please have a look and let me know if you find any problems.
It looks a little 'cleaner' and 'fresher'.


----------



## BVH

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

I installed new 1st gen Eneloops in my twelve Hunter Douglas brand window blinds in January of 2011. Each blind battery carrier uses 12 cells. All 144 cells are still their job perfectly. I've not had one cell failure. They get charged about every 8 months so not many cycles but a fair amount of time.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



BVH said:


> I installed new 1st gen Eneloops in my twelve Hunter Douglas brand window blinds in January of 2011. Each blind battery carrier uses 12 cells. All 144 cells are still their job perfectly. I've not had one cell failure. They get charged about every 8 months so not may cycles but a fair amount of time.



That's some great reference! 8 years without any problems. I'm just curious what charger you use/chargers. Charging 12 at a time can take some time. 24 even more, but imagine all batteries going flat around the same time...


----------



## PhotoTime

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Hi,

I am thinking of using the Eneloop/Ikea Ladda (those high performance type) on my wireless headband mic. The distance will be around 5 meters, with not much obstruction, and relatively same position.

Has anyone been using this batteries in this sort of setup? How long can the battery last?

Any advise is very much appreciated.

Regards.


----------



## BVH

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

For most of those years, I used a combo of 2 Maha C9000's and 1 Maha 808. The 808 died so replaced it with the 8000 and it died so got another 808. Now I'm using 4 C9000's and the 808 to charge two "units" at one time - 24 cells. I charge all at 1 Amp rate. Some blinds are used much more than others so not that many need a charge at the same time.

I also have 1 of the SkyRC 3000's but it's to complicated for inclusion in the Eneloop charges. I use it to charge my many 18650's and 21700's.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Great Stuff BVH. Your desk must look like a laboratory then, haha! 


PS. There hasn't been any new Limited Editions or a new generation of batteries unfortunately. I got myself some Amazon Eneloops from Japan, which are just eneloops but instead of having a blue font, they have a black font. Besides these, I also got a BQ-CC87 charger.


----------



## Putous

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

I recently bought Japanese made Panasonic Eneloops. They aren't performing as well as Eneloops of old. First cycle shows around 1650mah. Did two more cycles and end up with around 1850mah. Below the min rated 1900mah. (Used Maha C9000).

Does it need a break-in or just more cycles?


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Usually I get that capacity as well discharging them at 500mA. A break in would most likely raise the capacity rating but at that point I think a break in wouldn't fare well for the Eneloops. I dont know because they are LSD and a break in would overcharge the cells. I'd just use them, a constant discharge generally gives you slightly lower capacity on the C9000. Maybe use them regularly and then cycle and see how much capacity they got. I haven't tried this as I got other brand cells that I've been using. My Eneloops are still used infrequently, but recently been using a pair in this bug zap it. I actually had to recharge them too for the first time in 5 years lol.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

New eneloops in Europe
Eneloop tones earth


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Buying direct from the Amazon Eneloop store: Safe bet or sketchy?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Don't know bmstrong. Does panasonic have a seller's account on Amazon?


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



ChibiM said:


> Don't know bmstrong. Does panasonic have a seller's account on Amazon?



https://www.amazon.com/stores/enelo...l=SLP_FW_96B0281C-4A2D-41E6-9223-17D8C2473EBC

Looks OEM to me? Failing that, do you have a place you prefer?


----------



## archimedes

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Except for when I've found a good sale from another authorized source, I typically have purchased from Thomas Distributing.


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



archimedes said:


> Except for when I've found a good sale from another authorized source, I typically have purchased from Thomas Distributing.



Had not heard of them before. I’m having a heck of a time finding a 2 pack Pro AAA. Do they just come in the 4 and 8 packs?


----------



## archimedes

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

I don't recall ever seeing Pro's in 2-packs

Incidentally, other than a couple of very specific cases with a need for the "Pro" , I have almost entirely moved back to the "standard" eneloops.


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



archimedes said:


> I don't recall ever seeing Pro's in 2-packs
> 
> Incidentally, other than a couple of very specific cases with a need for the "Pro" , I have almost entirely moved back to the "standard" eneloops.



Really? I’ve got a McGizmo Sapphire en route. I’ve always used the Pro never the standard. Thoughts?


----------



## Burgess

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

I can vouch that
Thomas Distributing is Wonderful !

First-Class dealer.


----------



## archimedes

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



bmstrong said:


> Really? I’ve got a McGizmo Sapphire en route. I’ve always used the Pro never the standard. Thoughts?


I'll link up a couple threads below, but it is worth a search ...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=461991

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?414813-Should-I-go-Pro-Eneloop


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



archimedes said:


> I'll link up a couple threads below, but it is worth a search ...
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=461991
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?414813-Should-I-go-Pro-Eneloop



Gotcha. Thanks for the links. I’m comfortable with the larger capacity of the Pro for the long trail running or hiking I do. I’ll make that trade financially. I just need 2 not 4 though.


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Hmmm:

https://ru.nkon.nl/

Single Eneloop. Anyone order from them?

This is a pretty good resource, probably been mentioned somewhere in thread:

https://eneloop101.com/


----------



## id30209

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

I’m constantly buying from Nkon, but not russian. eu.nkon.nl is better choice


Sent from Tapatalk


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



id30209 said:


> I’m constantly buying from Nkon, but not russian. eu.nkon.nl is better choice
> 
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk



Whoops! Yep...


----------



## bmstrong

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Has anyone tested BK-4HCDE/4BE or 5th generation? There is a seller on Amazon under Shengchuang Panasonic. I’m curious if it’s genuine...


----------



## Kouryu

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



ChibiM said:


> Finally Panasonic added another battery charger to their curren lineup.... in Japan.....
> It's quite an interesting one I have to say. (charger + powerbank + flashlight in 1)
> Instead of a normal power cord, you can charge batteries using a USB charger! (Cord included, not the USB charger)
> Plus they added a flashlight as an attachment so you'll be able to have light during emergencies!
> 
> 
> *Panasonic BQ-CC87 L (light)*



Looks like this charger is now available in the US, on Amazon as BQ-CC87ABBA (charger only), and K-KJ87M3A4BA (AAA kit). It doesn't appear the USB flash light is included, however, which is a big turn off. The price is a few dollars less than the Japan version, to make up for the lack of USB flash light though.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Thanks for sharing Kouryu. Good to see them selling these in the US as well!


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



bmstrong said:


> Gotcha. Thanks for the links. I’m comfortable with the larger capacity of the Pro for the long trail running or hiking I do. I’ll make that trade financially. I just need 2 not 4 though.



I never seen them in a 2 pack either, but I bought extra Energizer and Duraloop batteries and just rotate them as needed.

Nice they now have a USB Eneloop charger now. Gotta have one though I like the new quick chargers they have, the lights on them look futuristic. Also 13 year old Eneloop from in a package holding 60%, and still working at full capacity after a break in is amazing. I recently bought a 24 set of AAAs. Only needed 2 because my EBLs wrapper on the negative terminal prevents use in some devices. Knowing they'll most likely still be useful in 13 years means I can store them indefinitely in case of an emergency. All Panasonic needs to do is come up with a solar charging method and if the world ends, our flashlights will keep shining bright for at least a decade. Can't wait to see how well they do after 20 years!


----------



## NorCal707

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

So, in speaking to Costco Corporate, it appears Eneloops are no longer being sold at any Costcos in the US. I need a 8-pack of AA's for a few Roku Ultras I'm going to be buying from Walmart on Black Friday for $48. I can get a 8-pack of standard 2000mah Eneloops sold/shipped by Amazon for $18.99 - is that about the best deal going? A little leery of ordering from them in fear of getting knock-offs instead of bonafide Panasonic despite stating sold/shipped by Amazon. Walmart.com also sells the 8-pack of standard 2000mah Eneloops for $18.99.

Also, are the "good" Eneloops made in Japan still? Reading through older posts, it appears some are being manufactured in China. Are the China cells good or to be avoided? 
Confused


----------



## xxo

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



NorCal707 said:


> So, in speaking to Costco Corporate, it appears Eneloops are no longer being sold at any Costcos in the US. I need a 8-pack of AA's for a few Roku Ultras I'm going to be buying from Walmart on Black Friday for $48. I can get a 8-pack of standard 2000mah Eneloops sold/shipped by Amazon for $18.99 - is that about the best deal going? A little leery of ordering from them in fear of getting knock-offs instead of bonafide Panasonic despite stating sold/shipped by Amazon. Walmart.com also sells the 8-pack of standard 2000mah Eneloops for $18.99.
> 
> Also, are the "good" Eneloops made in Japan still? Reading through older posts, it appears some are being manufactured in China. Are the China cells good or to be avoided?
> Confused




Costco still has them with a energizer rebrand:

https://costcocouple.com/energizer-rechargeable-battery-kit/

...if they are made in Japan, they're good.


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## NorCal707

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



xxo said:


> Costco still has them with a energizer rebrand:
> 
> https://costcocouple.com/energizer-rechargeable-battery-kit/
> 
> ...if they are made in Japan, they're good.



You sure they're re-branded Eneloops? The 2000mah AA Eneloops I ordered thru Walmart this afternoon say they will hold a 70% charge up to 10 years and can be recharged up to 2100 times. Those Energizers say holds charge for only one year.


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## xxo

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



NorCal707 said:


> You sure they're re-branded Eneloops? The 2000mah AA Eneloops I ordered thru Walmart this afternoon say they will hold a 70% charge up to 10 years and can be recharged up to 2100 times. Those Energizers say holds charge for only one year.




As best I can tell they are. I got the exact same kit with a eneloop brand last year at costco.


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## NorCal707

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



xxo said:


> As best I can tell they are. I got the exact same kit with a eneloop brand last year at costco.




Well, I didn't need any AAA's or another charger and needed a minimum of 8 AA's so I'm happy for $18.99. The back of the packaging shown on WM.com said made in Japan - will post back when I actually receive them as to if that holds true...


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## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

I wouldn't trust that "rebranded Eneloops" are really the exact same thing as genuine Eneloops. They may be made at the same factory, but perhaps not to the same tolerances and quality control or even specs. I've seen tests around this forum that compared "rebranded" versions to real Eneloops, and they didn't match up. Things like self-discharge were slightly different, and a couple of other minor things I can't recall.

Anyway, rebranded versions may be good value if you can get them at a cheaper price, but I don't think they're quite as good as the real thing.

Or, you could get lucky, and they might be as good as real Eneloops. But there's no guarantee the next batch will be the same. It's kind of like re-wrappers for lithium-ion cells. They could use a great cell underneath for a year, then switch brands without you knowing.


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## NorCal707

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



NorCal707 said:


> Well, I didn't need any AAA's or another charger and needed a minimum of 8 AA's so I'm happy for $18.99. The back of the packaging shown on WM.com said made in Japan - will post back when I actually receive them as to if that holds true...


Received my 8-pack of 2000mah AA Eneloops from Walmart and they are indeed marked Made in Japan.


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## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*

Costco.ca has Eneloops (Japanese) on sale this week until Dec 8. I can't resist. 
$29 for 12xAAA and $43 for 16xAA. Canadian dollars (so not worth much).

I still can't find any better deals from Canada for genuine Eneloops. They're each $11 off the regular price. I always buy the sales, which happen annually.

There's also the kit on sale, that comes with batteries and a charger. The charger (BQ-CC17) is actually a very good charger, albeit fairly slow.


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## lumen aeternum

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



NorCal707 said:


> Received my 8-pack of 2000mah AA Eneloops from Walmart and they are indeed marked Made in Japan.



What is the SKU number?


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## NorCal707

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



lumen aeternum said:


> What is the SKU number?




WM #553087548


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## lak100

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

hi guys is there any difference beteween aaa eneloop and eneloop for dect phones? Is a marketing trick or not? the forst are suitable for dect? one last question when we throw to recyble bin a rechargable battery from what volt and below


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## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*



lak100 said:


> hi guys is there any difference beteween aaa eneloop and eneloop for dect phones?



You might be referring to Eneloop Lite batteries, which have lower capacity but more cycles.



> Is a marketing trick or not? the forst are suitable for dect? one last question when we throw to recyble bin a rechargable battery from what volt and below



For NiMH, it doesn't matter.


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## lak100

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> You might be referring to Eneloop Lite batteries, which have lower capacity but more cycles.
> 
> 
> 
> For NiMH, it doesn't matter.


 im reffering to these 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PANASONI...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


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## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*



lak100 said:


> im reffering to these
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PANASONI...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



Those look like just the regular AAA Eneloops. They have the same capacity and cycle life as the regular version, and (based on the picture) they look identical. I suspect it's just marketing nonsense.

FWIW, I use the regular AAA Eneloops in my DECT phones, and they work great. I think they've been in there about 3 or 4 years, even since the original (crap) batteries died.


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

The Dect designation is not so much a nonsense, but a usual marketing technique. It helps buyers to understand what batteries to get. Yet they are the same as the usual eneloops. Sorry, for not answering earlier but Walkintothelight was 
very helpful!


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## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

This is how I got into Eneloops and found this forum. Years ago I needed new batteries for our cordless phones. FYI, they were Panasonic AAA's and I still have and use two of them. The phones are history too but I kept the Eneloops...


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## magellan

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

Just wanted to say again (for probably the 6th time), how much I’ve learned from this thread.


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

Agree, lots of useful information from many different members.


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## magellan

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

Yes, just a great forum all around.


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## mtrunner

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

Need more eneloops...safe to order from amazon?


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## coffeecup66

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*



mtrunner said:


> Need more eneloops..._*safe*_ to order from amazon?



Hi mtr,

What's your definition of "safe" ? About what exactly would you like to be reassured ? The quality of the products sent ? ... shipping gone wrong ? ... ?

Cheers.


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## blackbird77

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*



mtrunner said:


> Need more eneloops...safe to order from amazon?



I got some Eneloops from Amazon not too long ago and they have been fine. I had no issues with Amazon or with the batteries.


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## N8N

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019*



archimedes said:


> I don't recall ever seeing Pro's in 2-packs
> 
> Incidentally, other than a couple of very specific cases with a need for the "Pro" , I have almost entirely moved back to the "standard" eneloops.



Late reply, but I remember when the Duracell Ion Cores came out that everyone suspected they were rebranded Eneloop XX. Is that still the case? I haven't needed to buy any in quite some time, and I've started buying the IKEA Laddas because they're about half the price (and I really don't need the extra capacity)


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## Scout1

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*



blackbird77 said:


> I got some Eneloops from Amazon not too long ago and they have been fine. I had no issues with Amazon or with the batteries.



Thank you, I just ordered some and am a little less worried!


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

*New Low*
There are some new fakes on Aliexpress. I mean.. horribly fake






What's wrong with white Eneloop Pros? 
lol


*Announcement*
My new Japanese Eneloop website is now online. 
In case you are Japanese or living in Japan. https://chibim.com/
It's not finished yet, but will work on it and hopefully will be ready by next year Q1-Q2


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## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

ChibiM is this info up to date: https://eneloop101.com/where-to-buy/?


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*



kilogulf59 said:


> ChibiM is this info up to date: https://eneloop101.com/where-to-buy/?


Hmm. good question. I removed the Japanese part, as well as updated some of the links, so yes, it should be up to date. Except for maybe the Costo part. Some people say they don't sell them anymore, but that happened a couple of times in the past few years, and then came back. Wo I've been thinking about removing it. 
Do you have any other recommendations?


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## kilogulf59

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

All I know is what I learned here, from you and other knowledgeable folks who're kind enough to share your information. I don't believe Battery Junction was mentioned?


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*



kilogulf59 said:


> All I know is what I learned here, from you and other knowledgeable folks who're kind enough to share your information. I don't believe Battery Junction was mentioned?


Thanks. Good one. 
I will add Battery Junction since I've seen them mentioned on CPF quite a few times. And I removed 1 store, since they stopped selling them. 
I just want to give 2-3 trustworthy sources per country instead of all stores under the moon


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## nbp

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

Thanks very much for your site, I did some reading there recently also as I needed to replace some of my old Eneloops. I did just order some Pros from Battery Junction also. (Trying to support some small businesses Instead of the Big River Site in these tough times.)


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## ChibiM

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*



nbp said:


> Thanks very much for your site, I did some reading there recently also as I needed to replace some of my old Eneloops. I did just order some Pros from Battery Junction also. (Trying to support some small businesses Instead of the Big River Site in these tough times.)



Just added Battery Junction to the list!


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## Wangstang

*Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*

Looking at rechargeable AA and AAA battery options, with an interest in japan manufactured cells. The reviews on amazon.com would leave a reader to believe that some of the amazon basic branded rechargeable batteries are, or were, manufactured in the japan and were rebranded eneloops.

It appears that maybe some or maybe all of those have now been moved to china for production, but that's also unclear from the reviews. Any chance you have some historical insight and currently available product knowledge for the products coming from the amazon basic branded line?


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## ChibiM

Wangstang said:


> Looking at rechargeable AA and AAA battery options, with an interest in japan manufactured cells. The reviews on amazon.com would leave a reader to believe that some of the amazon basic branded rechargeable batteries are, or were, manufactured in the japan and were rebranded eneloops.
> 
> It appears that maybe some or maybe all of those have now been moved to china for production, but that's also unclear from the reviews. Any chance you have some historical insight and currently available product knowledge for the products coming from the amazon basic branded line?



Hi, unfortunately I don't know about the historic details of Amazon branded Eneloops.


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## aginthelaw

*Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2020*



nbp said:


> Thanks very much for your site, I did some reading there recently also as I needed to replace some of my old Eneloops. I did just order some Pros from Battery Junction also. (Trying to support some small businesses Instead of the Big River Site in these tough times.)



What was going on with your eneloops that you had to replace them? Did you try to “refresh” them? I just purchased a powerex charger to make refreshing them easier. What did you do with the old ones (I’d like to experiment if i could get them from you)


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## VDR

Hello all, hello ChibiM and thanks for creating and maintainting this thread! 

I'm a long time Eneloop user that has just joined the forum! I use a Nitecore SC4 to charge all my eneloops and so far it has served me well. 
It's nice to see you have all the codes documented, I'm gonna have a great time checking my batteries to see what generation is each. 
Cheers!


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## Padgriffin

Picked up a pack of the rewrapped LADDA 2450s (gray) today at IKEA and found that they're still made in Japan! The only change seems to be that there's now a game controller graphic on the wrapper.


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## AstroTurf

good info, thanks!!!



Padgriffin said:


> Picked up a pack of the rewrapped LADDA 2450s (gray) today at IKEA and found that they're still made in Japan! The only change seems to be that there's now a game controller graphic on the wrapper.


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## CelticCross74

All I know is that I recently dug up some of my near 5 year old Pros and the infamous "might be rewrapped" Duracell 2000mah and 2450mah cells along with actual Pros and they ALL still charged all the way with no problem at all. These things hold their charge for freaking ever. You really cannot go wrong with MIJ Eneloops and their rewraps for AA.


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## mactavish

All my “Pro” higher capacity black wrap Eneloops have not faired as well as the standard 2000mAh white ones. But I’ve heard this before.


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## CelticCross74

I could be wrong but among the many Eneloop reviews here state that the Pro's are designed to be able to give a bit more power as well as the Pro's 2450mah capacity vs. the standard 2000mah. They self discharge at a higher rate as well from what I have read here. Just pulled out another set of 4 Duracell 2000mah suspected rewraps. These Duracells are white at the positive end so I have read. These things have not seen a charger in 7 years I believe. They are currently charging back up on my 8 cell NC charger just fine. Amazing stuff. I am sure somebody will come along and add their 2 cents.


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## snakebite

"duraloop" 4aa 2011 storage test.
all 4 cells read 1.285v after 10 years in sealed package.
results of 500ma discharge.
1 1078
2 1076
3 1073
4 1070

1st charge
1 1830
2 1834
3 1829
4 1806

cycle 2 1a
1 1791
2 1794
3 1791
4 1773

cycle 3 200ma
1 1855
2 1862
3 1858
4 1848


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## ChibiM

Thanks for sharing.. that's pretty good


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## Muse

I have many Eneloop batteries, AAA and AA. I have maybe a year ago acquired a number of Ikea LADDA batteries as well, both AA and AAA, which are thought to be high capacity rebranded Eneloops, I have it on good authority (having been manufactured in Japan, after all).

I've been using my La Crosse BC-900, but mostly my La Crosse BC-700 chargers to recharge all these.

I've been using 200ma setting for AAAs and 500ma for the AAs. These were recommended me as best practice to avoid overcharging and making reasonably sure of proper termination when using those La Crosse chargers.

I recently acquired some 18650 li-ion batteries and after some research bought an Xtar VC4 charger. That charger is rather different from the BC-700 and BC-900. It can determine the battery chemistry and does not use the delta V termination strategies of the La Crosse chargers but uses a soft start and soft finish, i.e. very slow charge at the start and very slow charge at the finish before showing "FULL" and displaying the mah applied (not total capacity unless the battery was initially fully depleted). However, minimum charge rate is 0.5A.

I'm wondering how to deal with my NiMH Eneloops (and LADDAs) now. Use the La Crosse's or the Xtar charger?

I don't know but suspect that the soft finish of the Xtar is preferable even though it's going to use a 0.5A charge rate. The La Crosse chargers would use a 200mah charge rate (for my AAA Eneloops), but there's still a risk of missing termination. I figure maybe the soft finish of the Xtar likely is superior to the La Crosse's delta V termination method, even for the AAA's.

What do you think?


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## ChibiM

After so many years, finally a new Eneloop battery. 

Besides a new kinds of packaging for the Eneloop Lite and Eneloop PRO, *the 5th generation standard Eneloop White has just launched in Europe*.



Thanks goes to one of our readers, Daniel. 



*Minimum 2,000mAh*, but same cycle life


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## Burgess

Thank You !

Can't wait for some test results . . . . . .


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## knucklegary

I wonder what plastic substitute they're using?


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## thermal guy

4th generation was what? Up to 2000 mah?


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## AstroTurf

still made in japan?


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## Burgess

knucklegary said:


> I wonder what plastic substitute they're using?
> 
> Cardboard


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## BVH

Finally having to change out my early 2011 Eneloops in my electric blinds. Instead of lasting 6-9 months, they are lasting about a month.


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## thermal guy

i mean honestly how many recharge cycles do really need. Mine get recharged ab once a week in my lights? so 500-600 cycles will take me 10 years. I’m good with that.if you recharged them every day these will last 5+ years😂


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## Burgess

BTW --

I'm STILL using (among others),
my original AA *Sanyo* Eneloops
which I purchased in 2007 !


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## Bimmerboy

Burgess said:


> I'm STILL using (among others),
> my original AA *Sanyo* Eneloops
> which I purchased in 2007 !


Same here. Roughly around the same time period, I got mine when Circuit City was still around. All AA's and AAA's seem to be working fine with my non-high current usage. Such great cells.


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## Burgess

Bimmerboy said:


> Same here. Roughly around the same time period, I got mine when Circuit City was still around. All AA's and AAA's seem to be working fine with my non-high current usage. Such great cells.


YES !
I also purchased mine at Circuit City !


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## ChibiM

Answering some questions:
Yes, still made in Japan.
AA 1st-4th generation were all 1,900mAh Min. and the new ones (5th gen) are 2,000 mAh Min
AA 1st-4th generation were all 750mAh Min. and the new ones (5th gen) are 800 mAh Min

Some observations:
They are also heavier than the older 1st-4th Eneloops.. (1 gram)
The new paper packaging seems pretty weak and easy to damage. For retail stores it might be difficult to keep them in good condition.
I just received mine a few days ago.. Did some testing (not according to the IEC standards), and I'm making a video.


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## ChibiM

If you look at the corners/edges.. they don't look very pretty anymore.


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## ChibiM

Just recorded a video to show the difference between the different generation Eneloops, and some capacity testing


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## Viking

Great to see they are still able to improve them.
Provided the batteries in the video approximately had the same state of charge, the weight difference seems compared to previous generations to be quite noticeable in my opinion, very interesting to observe.
Also Interesting to see if Fujitsu in the near future (the owners of the factory that makes them) will send its 5th generation batteries to the streets in a way that we, the consumers, can distinguish them from the 4th generation on the packaging or product code, I hope they will.

Thank you ChibiM for keeping us updated.

By the way, although I am not so active on the forum anymore, I still use your very informative website (https://eneloop101.com) approx. 3-4 times a year to keep track of my different generations, as I can't remember in my head which production codes refer to which generations. Likewise, when ever I buy new eneloops to myself or others, I always start by going to your website to see what production codes and packaging to look for.

Once again, thank you for your dedicated efforts to keep us all informed. It is much appreciated.


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## kilogulf59

I pretty much agree with what Viking said, ChibiM. Thank you.


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## knucklegary

Ditto.. Big Cheers to ChibiM for the time it takes to compose charts and make videos


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## bykfixer

One cheers thread coming up.……


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## MaestroDaVinci

So yesterday i bought myself a 2 battery package of the new Eneloop 5th generation AAA batteries , from my local Praktiker, and everything looks great and they are as shown in the video new capacity and a new packaging. Now i want to point out to something that i noticed on the batteries itself, as we know for now the 5th generation is only available in Europe, but on the batteries itself also says the following *"Not intended for sale outside of Europe, CIS, Turkey"* and on the video that @ChibiM did for the new generation batteries the batteries in the clip seems to have the same thing.


----------

