# Monkey's Fist



## Chris201W (Jan 5, 2006)

Not sure if this is the right place but, Yay!! I tied my first monkey's fist today! This is a pretty good accomplishment for a guy who's never tied anything more complicated than his own shoelaces (which I still do backwards).


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## greenLED (Jan 5, 2006)

Chris201W said:


> Not sure if this is the right place but, Yay!! I tied my first monkey's fist today! This is a pretty good accomplishment for a guy who's never tied anything more complicated than his own shoelaces (which I still do backwards).



:huh2: ...you tie your shoelaces on the bottom of your shoes? :laughing:

knot-tying is fun


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## Morelite (Jan 5, 2006)

I know some knots but what is a monkey's fist?


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## Jumpmaster (Jan 5, 2006)

Morelite said:


> I know some knots but what is a monkey's fist?



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=monkeyfist+knot

JM-99


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## cy (Jan 5, 2006)

monkey fist is a hangman's noose with loop pulled in. 

very useful arborist knot. pitch your rope terminated in a monkey's fist at target branch. if knot gets stuck, simply pull and knot will self-release.


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## ghostrider (Jan 5, 2006)

Congratulations Chris. I think you'll find that skills required to tie the MF will help you in other knots and sinnets.


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## Jumpmaster (Jan 5, 2006)

cy said:


> monkey fist is a hangman's noose with loop pulled in.
> 
> very useful arborist knot. pitch your rope terminated in a monkey's fist at target branch. if knot gets stuck, simply pull and knot will self-release.



Hey, Cy...this is a "monkey fist" knot...






Is that the same knot you're talking about? If so, how does it "self-release" if it gets caught?

JM-99


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## cy (Jan 5, 2006)

this is a monkeys fist, which is a very useful knot. unlike that decrative knot you show. it's pretty common for different knots to use identical names. 

if this knot gets stuck, pulling rope will self release


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## Jumpmaster (Jan 5, 2006)

Ahhh...the only "Monkey's Fist" I've ever seen are the ones shown when googling "Monkeyfist knot", as in the link I posted above...the one in my knot book also shows the "ball" one as a Monkey Fist"...maybe it's a regional thing?

Are there any Eagle Scouts in here that can clarify this? 

JM-99


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## rscanady (Jan 6, 2006)

I believe Jump is correct, that is a monkey's Fist, we used them in the Navy on board Submarines, they actually had lead weights in the middle of the knot. They were the first lines over from the boat to the dock when tying up. We would then tie them off to 3" lines used to secure the boat to the pier. 

Cy, your pic looks like a modified Hangman's Noose.


Ryan


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## greenLED (Jan 6, 2006)

I third the diagnosis, Dr. Knot. The monkey fist I know of (aka Turk's head) is the round one in Jump's pic.


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## dfred (Jan 6, 2006)

cy said:


> this is a monkeys fist, which is a very useful knot. unlike that decrative knot you show. it's pretty common for different knots to use identical names.
> 
> if this knot gets stuck, pulling rope will self release



Both the Monkey's Fist and the Hangman's Noose (used in the way you indicate) would be categorized as heaving line knots. There are many knots used for this purpose. The knot you posted could be called a slipped Hangman's Noose Heaving Line Knot. Many of the heaving knots used in nautical settings (as well as when used in lanyards) are meant to be permanent line terminations. They can be fairly ornate but also quite functional.

That said, I'd agree about the practical advantages the one you mention for actual heaving over branches, including both ease of tying and the possibility of releasing it if snagged. Traditionally, arborists have used some very clever rope techniques... I'd guess that people have been throwing lines up into trees far longer than they've been sailing.


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## cy (Jan 6, 2006)

if you do a google search for arborist and monkey fist. you will find all sorts of hits for knot shown in my pic above.

here's some other knots from my aborist gear. 

termination knot is a triple fisherman, possibly most secure bend known. it's probably called by another name somewhere.


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## Jumpmaster (Jan 6, 2006)

cy said:


> if you do a google search for arborist and monkey fist. you will find all sorts of hits for knot shown in my pic above.



Your knot earlier in the thread is a "tightened hangman's noose"...I found a reference to it here (where they mention it apart from the monkey's fist...)
http://www.treebuzz.com/pdf/0505_moreslicktricks.pdf
"1. Tie the end of the rope to a dog-leashsnap. Use a knot that is 
fairly large and heavy, such as a bullet knot, monkey’s fist, throwing 
knot, or tightened hang-man’s noose."

I did a google search for arborist and monkey fist, but did not see any knots of the type you show labelled as a monkey fist. The knots were mentioned on the same page as other knots, but weren't labelled that way.

But you can keep calling yours a Monkey Fist...I won't tell anyone!!   

JM-99


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## zespectre (Jan 6, 2006)

There is a kind of monkey trap used in Asia. A coconut is hollowed out and attached by a rope to a tree or stake in the ground (sometimes a heavy bottle is used). At the bottom of the coconut a small slit is made and some sweet food is placed inside. The hole on the bottom of the coconut is just big enough for the monkey to slide in it's open hand, but too small for a closed fist to be pulled out.

The monkey smells the sweets, reaches in with his hand to grasp the food and is then unable to pull it back out. When the hunters return, the monkey almost never gets away because they won't let go of the food.

The knot called a Monkey's Fist (properly illustrated by Jumpmaster) is so named because it usually surrounds some sort of weight, completely enclosing it (like that monkey refusing to let go of the food).

A Monkey's Fist, now often used for decor, was origionally for passing lines between ships. A weighted Monkey's Fist was created on the end of a light line and thrown from one ship to another. Once it was caught and secured a heavier line would then be attached to the light line and pulled over. This was repeated until the desired weight of line bridged the two vessels.


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## greenLED (Jan 6, 2006)

Zespectre, that's really curious, people use the same approach to catch racoons down in Central America.


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## rscanady (Jan 6, 2006)

and snakes in South America, but with a ring of stakes instead of a coconut.


Ryan


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## zespectre (Jan 6, 2006)

Ring of stakes... how does that work? A full snake can't get back out of the ring?


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## greenLED (Jan 6, 2006)

not if it's coiled around something (or swallowed it) is my guess

(poor chicken) :green:


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## rscanady (Jan 6, 2006)

that is correct, once it eats the animal it is too fat to get out.

Ryan


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## SolarFlare (Jan 6, 2006)

Fascinating :shrug: I personally call a "monkeys fist" the same as Jumpmaster called it, however when I was training for dealing with wind thrown and hung up trees an old school forrester used to tie a knot he called a "monkey's paw" its actually what I would call a "heaving knot" it can be used to give a stopper at the end of a heave line or to add weight to a thrown line. The disadvantage is it wont come undone like the closed noose if it gets caught like CY's knot. Its basically a noose with the second bight removed.


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## Mike Painter (Jan 6, 2006)

greenLED said:


> :huh2: ...you tie your shoelaces on the bottom of your shoes? :laughing:
> 
> knot-tying is fun



It's hard to describe "backwards" but I had a friend in elementary school that managed to tie a perfectly ordinary looking bow in a backwards manner I never could figure out.

Here is the next project Monkey Boy. The  Slatts weave  can be used with para-cord to make a belt. If both ends are snaps it can be unraveled in an emergency for just about any use.
I suspect a 36 inch long belt would be more than 30 feet long based on the way I keep such a cord in my car (electricians knot)


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## SolarFlare (Jan 6, 2006)

here's both above mentioned knots used in a very effective manner  theres about a 1 inch steel ball bearing in the fist


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## Chris201W (Jan 6, 2006)

Mike Painter said:


> It's hard to describe "backwards" but I had a friend in elementary school that managed to tie a perfectly ordinary looking bow in a backwards manner I never could figure out.



I tie my shoes backwards in the sense that I loop everything the the opposite way most people do. I think it's because when I was young I would watch my sister tie her shoes the normal way, which appeared reversed from my perspective.


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## greenLED (Jan 6, 2006)

I was pullling your leg; there's no backwards way of tying a knot... unless you're untying it. :nana:


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## carrot (Jan 6, 2006)

I can't figure it out... How do you make a monkey's fist?


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## greenLED (Jan 6, 2006)

http://www.folsoms.net/knots/

try the Turk's head animation


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## Rogue_monkey (Jan 8, 2006)

CY- nice choice of hand saws. The silky is one of the nicest out there. to bad its so pricey. looks like Canadian and American knot standard are a little differnt we could never get away with that "triple fisherman" knot as a main knot. if you use two to form a prussik thats ok but not alone as a main knot.

As for the the monkey fist. I've only seen the one pictured by Jumpmaster called a monkey fist.

CY does have a point tho you can search for one kind of knot and get many hits of different knots with the same name. It is rather confusing and a PITA.


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## Chris201W (Jan 8, 2006)

carrot said:


> I can't figure it out... How do you make a monkey's fist?



Are you having trouble tying the knot, or tightening it? Unlike most other knots, it actually takes longer (at least for me) to tighten the monkey's fist than it takes to tie it...


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## Skyclad01 (Jan 8, 2006)

carrot said:


> I can't figure it out... How do you make a monkey's fist?


 
Carrot, try following this animated instruction http://131.230.57.1/knots/m_fista.htm

And/or this drawing http://www.cooperativeadventures.com/mf.htm


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## cy (Jan 8, 2006)

triple fisherman is possibly the most secure bent known. can't imagine why it would not be aproved for a termination knot. 

double and triple fisherman knots trap anchor points and is a real pita to untie. the national arborist assoc is considering making double fisherman and other termination knots that trap anchor points a requirement. 

two double fisherman tied into each other is the most secure way to connect two lines together. but there again a pita to undo and can snag on rocks etc on the way down. some climbers (not me) use a single overhand, also called the euro death knot. yes there have been documented cases of it failing.

silky hand saws are the best. if you climb trees, it can save you lugging a chainsaw. silkys cuts smaller limbs just about fast as a chainsaw.


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## Rogue_monkey (Jan 8, 2006)

CY

All your points are very correct. I've had many experiences with these knots during my climbing instructor days and well as now practicing arboriculture. I once knew the amout of force required that would make a fishermans knots impossible to untie. I wish I still knew it.

As for the Silky they are great. But I sure do like my husky 335xpt for anything over a few inchs. 

How long have you been climbing trees?


Sorry to hi-jack the thread and turn it into an arborist thread.

Now back to the monkey fist talk.


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## turbodog (Jan 8, 2006)

QUOTE=greenLED

I was pullling your leg; there's no backwards way of tying a knot... unless you're untying it. :nana:[/QUOTE]


*********************************************

Actually, that's not 100% correct.

There are 2 ways to tie a shoelace. One is right, and the other is wrong.

There is a HUGE difference on tightness and resistance to untying between them.

See: http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/slipping.htm


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## Chris201W (Jan 11, 2006)

wow, neat site! I've started tying my shoes using the "Ian Knot" Much quicker and easier.


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## offroadcmpr (Jan 12, 2006)

I just took a lanyard from a old crappy camera and tried it. The actual know doesnt seem that hard to do, but like christ201w said, it is much harder and takes a lot more time to tighten it. I don't have any kind of ball right now, but maybe tommorow I'll go pick up a small rubber bouncy ball, or something similar.


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## cy (Jan 12, 2006)

Rogue_monkey said:


> CY
> 
> All your points are very correct. I've had many experiences with these knots during my climbing instructor days and well as now practicing arboriculture. I once knew the amout of force required that would make a fishermans knots impossible to untie. I wish I still knew it.
> 
> ...


sorry about the off topic... been climbing trees and have been interested in aborculture for aprox. 4 years. 

here's a pic of my husky 335XPT with modded muffler, really makes saw run strong!


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