# 35W HIDflashlight..too cheap?



## Synergic (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi!
I have found this: http://www.hids-direct.co.uk/flashlight.html

Is it too cheap? Bad quality?Has anyone tried it?

Thanks.


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## DocD (Jan 2, 2009)

these are mass made and as such " there is no quality in the word cheap" most hid flashlights are twice the price, just a thought cheers DocD


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## petersmith6 (Jan 3, 2009)

havent tried this light ,but i did gey my brightstar Dipper 11 from them, fast service and not far from manchester.oh they also can be delt with by phone or pop in wich is handy.


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## clifton4th (Jan 3, 2009)

Especially now, that the GBP is so weak, this seems to be a good deal!


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## windstrings (Jan 3, 2009)

Trying to find the dimensions... but the 35W version is about 196.00 us dollars before shipping.... and about 160.00 for the 24 watt version.....considering thier claims, runtimes, how its made etc... seems like a good deal.

Only negative I see is dealing across the world for support.

For me here is the states.... I see there is 44.00 for shipping and another 30.00 dollars for tax......now its not so cheap!

I could be a nice light... but I hate those chinese lights that "look" bullet proof and then when you get them all the mechanisms are very cheap and flimsy like it was purchased from a quarter machine.

I would sure want to see some reviews before I ordered from the UK and had to eat the shipping cost and hassle if I didn't like it or had troubles.

Looks like the 35W is pretty big! If you scroll down on that page, you can see someone holding it.
Scroll down some more and there is a UTube video

Here is a pic of the 24W version... they look pretty robust!

Not sure.. but it appears this seller may send to the states for Free... you don't see that notice till right before you commit to buy.

I did notice the "item location" was in Hong Kong...... I really don't like that!!!

Here is yet another vendor.... I can't tell if these are all the same or if one is a knock off of the other. There do seem to be more options here.. for more money......but they offer a one year warranty...
but when you click on the "more info" button.. it goes to the original website where its cheaper.

I found a 35 Watt that is shorter "called the scorpion" from Australia.... I bet its brighter too with the lens they have.
The battery is 2300mah... "same as the above 24W version" so the extra brightness you will pay with shorter runtime.....
I think this light is a better bet for me.....
they show the lengh as 225mm... or 8.8 inches with a 3.35 inch lens

I found a disturbing link about the scorpion...may not be as good as it looks


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## bigdaddy (Jan 5, 2009)

It sure sounds cheap. Got one similar looking one from ebay at US$300 (inclusive of international shipping). But the runtime is kind of exaggerated, the runtime is only around 30 mins. Oh well, maybe I got a 'used' item, who knows. Buy at your own risk.  

The 35 Watts flashlight is really huge, and really bright but maybe not as bright as the 3500 lumens as they stated. Unless I got a Polarion PH40 to compare.


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## windstrings (Jan 5, 2009)

I'm spoiled with my Barnburner... so I need to have allot of confidence in a 300.00 purchase.

Those Hong Kong lights look fabulous on the outside, but I have yet to see one thats built solid on the inside.... but I've never bought anything expensive either.


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## XeRay (Jan 5, 2009)

Synergic said:


> Hi!
> I have found this: http://www.hids-direct.co.uk/flashlight.html
> 
> Is it too cheap? Bad quality?Has anyone tried it?
> ...


 
The output using a 6000K bulb is only ~80% of that using a 4200K bulb. 3500 lumens @ 35 watt input is also hyped some. The best it would be is 3200 lumens @ 35 watts with 4200K subtract 20% for the 6000K bulb and you have more like 2600 lumens output and 2400 lumens after 100 hours use. These numbers are based on using a Philips 6000K bulb, Asian made bulbs will perform worse.


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## AlexLED (Jan 5, 2009)

I tend to agree with XeRay and bigDaddy. 

A 52,8 Wh Battery (at it's best) will certainly NOT drive a 35W HID for 1,5 hrs...


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## IMSabbel (Jan 5, 2009)

But neither should it by anywhere near empty after 30 minutes.

But seeing how much the pound sucks vs the euro at the moment, i decided to take my chances with that one. Lets see in a week or so how it is (maybe i will make a comparison review with my 4*p7 thrower )


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## bigdaddy (Jan 5, 2009)

IMSabbel said:


> But neither should it by anywhere near empty after 30 minutes.
> 
> But seeing how much the pound sucks vs the euro at the moment, i decided to take my chances with that one. Lets see in a week or so how it is (maybe i will make a comparison review with my 4*p7 thrower )


 
Wish u all the best. Hope u got a better quality one. Sometimes I guess it's luck on which light they randomly picked for you. :laughing: 

Anyway the design looks better than the older version one I got. The price alone justify a 'test-fire' buy if u want to try out the power of a HID flashlight. :laughing:

The BIG size flashlight will 'shock' you for it's size. LOL


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## IMSabbel (Jan 6, 2009)

Yeah, that was my point, too.

If its crap, i can always decide to gut it and put something decent in it. The body seems sturdy enough (and seeing the weight, it should have quite a heft, too).

In the very least there will be the battery (seems 4s2p 18650, with charger from 12V and 230V) to use elsewhere.


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## windstrings (Jan 6, 2009)

I haven't tried to research this light much, but it sounds like we need "someone" to review it!... for anyone who dares, I'm sure everyone else will appreciate the feedback.

The L35 is promised to come out soon too.. which will have allot of nice features and I trust will be pretty bullet proof with good support and we won't have to deal half way around the world. 

On the other hand, there is some virtue in having that much light in that small a package too if it works well!


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## Synergic (Jan 11, 2009)

IMSabbel said:


> But neither should it by anywhere near empty after 30 minutes.
> 
> But seeing how much the pound sucks vs the euro at the moment, i decided to take my chances with that one. Lets see in a week or so how it is (maybe i will make a comparison review with my 4*p7 thrower )



Have you ordered it already?


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## IMSabbel (Jan 12, 2009)

Got it today.
Wont have time to make a real review till the end of the week, but already made some pictures and first impressions (pics later).

Some points:

- Case is cheap, but reasonable. Foam cutouts for every part, nothing to complain about
- The light is lighter than it looks like. Doesnt feel heavy at all, and you can still grip it ok (at least with my hands, my sister might have problems).
- There was NO DOCUMENTATION WHATSOEVER included. Or maybe i didnt find it, but i did look for 5 minutes. Makes me wonder in regards to replacement bulbs, etc.
- The yellow-filter is coated on both sides, and the yellow beam (at day) looks nearly as bright (60-70%) than the beam without the filter.
- I am not really impressed with the battery. It has 3 leds, and they are reasonably bright (about 15lumens is my guess, its more than a p0d-q4 on low), but internally it seems to be an unbalanced 3s2p configuration. I think i wont charge that light unattented. The on-off button is part of the battery. It is sealed by the end-cap and an o-ring around the button.
- The machining on the light looks good. There is nothing to complain around the exterior (no marks on the aluminium, etc), and all the threads are very clean and turn smoothly. 
- There is a "fine-focus"ability present (you can move the bulb around 5mm inside the head up and down. This is a different rotation than unscrewing the head with stops on both ends (not the maglight type).
- There are lots of tiny screws to fix stuff, but nothing seems to be potted/glued into place.

- I could not test is out outside yet (sun is still shining), but did some indoor tests: 5s to full brightness they claim is a bit to short. Its more like 20s to full brightness, and 5s to 50% or so. (Only the first 0.5s or so are dim).
- Beampattern is a bit odd, but i still havent had time to tune the focus. The very outer part of the spill is cut of a bit by the crown prongs. And also, there are some artifacts at the very outer rim because of reflections on some of the orange peel on top of the reflector. Not noticeable when using, but on the white wall it is.
- Its bright, alright. in a direct test, it put out more light than my 4*P7 @2.8A homebuild. Its not really a super-thrower (OP reflectore that isnt that huge), but still beats that light by a factor of 2 at least (side by side against my wall). Otherwise, i dont have any light of the same class to compare against (I do not think that you would even notice a fenix in the same beamshot ), but i might make a car-headlight comparison tonight or tomorrow.


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## Synergic (Jan 12, 2009)

Cool! I want to see beamshots!
Hope you have purchased a good quality one!

:thumbsup:


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## IMSabbel (Jan 12, 2009)

I just turned it on outside for the first time, and noticed something about these strange beam artefacts i was talking about.

Normally, you got spill light where you have direct line of sight to the hot part of the bulb, and spot where you also can see the bulb in the reflector.

But in this case, the outermost part of the reflector is at a very steep angle, widening the spill in comparison to a light of similar depth. I think they used that approach because of the length of the bulb... they couldnt make the reflector more shallow without hitting the glass, or making it bigger...

The end result is a nearly hemispherical spill. Actually quite nice if you can ignore the messyness of the outer region.


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## Synergic (Jan 12, 2009)

Interesting.Would like to see it :candle:


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## bigdaddy (Jan 14, 2009)

You can see the youtube clip on this similar torch here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rptuhlo-icY

:wave:


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## IMSabbel (Jan 14, 2009)

I already made some pictures, but i can only post them at weekend.

But i am pissed now that i realized that its impossible to change the bulb: Its directly soldered to wires that disappear into the potted ballast.

I am not really feeling like using the lamp anymore, seeing that it will be waste when the bulb dies...


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## bigdaddy (Jan 15, 2009)

IMSabbel said:


> I already made some pictures, but i can only post them at weekend.
> 
> But i am pissed now that i realized that its impossible to change the bulb: Its directly soldered to wires that disappear into the potted ballast.
> 
> I am not really feeling like using the lamp anymore, seeing that it will be waste when the bulb dies...


 
The bulb may last up to 2500 hrs from what I know. That's pretty long lasting. So far I've only use my HID for about 3 hrs only. So I guess changing the bulb may not occur in my lifetime (I hope) :green:. 


Think of the bright side, you've got a powerful HID flashlight at last. :twothumbs
Have fun with your new toy. Cheer up.


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## Helmut.G (Jan 31, 2009)




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## Isthereanybodyoutthere (Jan 31, 2009)

IMSabbel said:


> I already made some pictures, but i can only post them at weekend.
> 
> But i am pissed now that i realized that its impossible to change the bulb: Its directly soldered to wires that disappear into the potted ballast.
> 
> I am not really feeling like using the lamp anymore, seeing that it will be waste when the bulb dies...




If the bulp dies ,couldent you just unsolder the bulp and solder the new one on to the wires ?? 
It might be because of lack of space inside they have skipped the socket + the wires are much more safe/solid soldered on ,than a socket

pictures we need,,no we demand pictures


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## IMSabbel (Feb 1, 2009)

Helmut.G said:


>



OkOK. 
I didnt find time to make Beamshots, and i cannot do it right now because the light is in the trunk of my car.
But i will post the pics i prepared already (i think that might still be useful).


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## IMSabbel (Feb 1, 2009)

Ok, part 1.
For all pictures, click for big.




Ok, this is the box/case. I said before that its cheap, but not bad. That was premature, as i didnt notice something thats visible in the big picture: 7 of the 8 corner plastic pieces were shattered (thanks UPS) -> It is on the brink of falling apart non stop 




Ah, here it is open. You see the light, the PSUs (top left AC, middle car), the Yellow-filter (top right).
THe piece in the middle is a dummy battery, which also has a rubber cap on it that will protect the contacts of the real battery when its charged/used as flashlight (but that later)




Here is the light itself. There is nothing to complain on the finish. Its not hard anodized, but it certainly feels nicer to use than a maglight. Also, i didnt notice any machining errors/scratches/etc.




Now here is the yellow-filter. Its just pressed onto the top of the flashlight, and is kept there by sticktion (the black stuff is rubber). It didnt catch that well on the flash, but you can see a little blue: The think is anti-reflection coated on both sides.




Thats the back unscrewed: The threads a mildly lubricated, and dont "grind" at all. A lot different from certain DX lights. The switch is in the battery back, and is a reverse clicky (which might be sensible, considering the health of the bulb, as well as the problems of unintentional activation.
The sealing is done with an oring around the button: The end-cap presses on the seal perpenticular.





Here you can see the o-ring a bit better.




OK, this is the front of the battery. You notice the 4 spring-loaded contacts (those are protected by the aformentioned rubber cap), the charging port, an on-off switch and the three leds that are switched on/off. Like i said, the LEDs are decently bright, but it doesnt look like it here as its ISO 100 and 1/160s, off axis.




Here you can see it a bit better. The rubber cap leaves the leds, the switch and the charging port open, btw.




Ok, here is the interesting side of the flashlight. (and it was nearly impossible to get in focus correcly 
Cremelated (spelling) bezel, but not sharply so. The reflector is very deep for its diameter, to house the HID, thats why there is this reflective band around the bezel inside the glass. This makes more light escape into spill.




Ok, right into the front. Its not as offcenter as it looks like, as it was pretty hard to get to align it correctly. Orange peel is medium for that reflector size. Btw, notice that most of the insulation of the top contact has eben striped, which results in much less "bar" in the beam than an automotive bulb.





The same again? I should have looked over the photos before uploading .

Well, here you can see it bigger, and with focus on the base of the HID. Also notice the bezel being not that badly manufactured.




The reflector unscrewed. Its aluminium, as expected. Notice that the focussing is not done via this thread, so it can be fixed in place forever (as the bulb is not really changeable).





Naked HID. You see again the stripped insulation, and the fact that the tiop connection has been soldered, as it seems (or spot-welded. At least there is a point). The non-black aluminum is the part which allows focusing. (it has a C-profile, stopping motion in both directions after a few mm).





Same again, ab it closer. Notice that is seems that the bottom of the bulb is glued in.


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## IMSabbel (Feb 1, 2009)

Starting disassembly stage 2.





Battery switch unscrewed. The foam there is quite high density, and is between the cells and the PCP.




Removed, you can see whats clearly the end of a 3S2P 18650 pack. Notice that its kepts in place by high density foam squeezed into it at the side.
Not that this is a big problem, as the cells dont really have anywhere to go.




Battery Pack topless.Foam already removed. The green connectors go down to the switch, the others to the cells.
Notice that there is no charging electronics in there, so you have to use the supplied chargers. (The AC one makes high-frequency noice without load,btw. Disappears as soon as you plug in the pack. It charges with about 0.5C, btw (1.8A))





The corpse of the battery pack. Basically, it should be no problem at all the MOD it to your liking (more to that later).




Here we are looking down the barrel. Not really visible here, but it those rings are gold-plated, like the spring-loaded pins. 
So no orientation problems.




Here is the next stage: Removed the ballast/Bulb combo from the light. Its only held there with those three screws. The ballast fills about 40% of the barrel, btw.




Here is the data for the driver. 9-16V input might allow for eneloop of other alternative "fillings" of the battery case.





Further i did not go: You can see, the whole driver is potted. That stuff is REALLY black, thats why i had to mess with the RAWs to even show up at all.
Maybe any pros here can tell how viable a bulb change (4.3k would be sweet) is in that case...



I hope even without the beamshots this will be useful. I still plan on taking them, but work and weather were not really forthcoming the last weeks.


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## windstrings (Feb 2, 2009)

Wow.. nice breakdown.... looks pretty good quality just by looking at pics alone


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## Patriot (Feb 3, 2009)

Very good review and pics. The detail is great!

Seems to be pretty well built and the battery pack looks well made.

Thanks for sharing it with us.


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## Hemlock Mike (Feb 3, 2009)

This looks the same as the ones sold here by Tactical_HID in the dealer's section. The 35 and the 24 have a lot of spill because of the vertical portion of the reflector. I asked if there was a better reflector available but got no reply on this matter.
The 35 "flashlight" is large and comes with a shoulder strap. Mine lights up in a few seconds and is at full brightness in about 7 seconds. 
The 24 watt I had also had lots of spill. For "tactical" use, you will light up all your good guys and the bad guys .............

Mike


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## IMSabbel (Feb 3, 2009)

I would not use HID for "tactical use" anyway. (Well, i would not use _anything_ for tactical use. The army is a thing of the past for me and good riddance.) What i mean is that HID-bulbs and short burst of light /lots of switches arent really compatible.

As just a "use it" flashlight, i found it useful. The spill is enough to light up where you step even if you aim it at the horizon.

About the runtime: I didnt run the batteries completely dry, but at one test i had it running for about an hour, without it being empty at the end.


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## windstrings (Feb 3, 2009)

> Maybe any pros here can tell how viable a bulb change (4.3k would be sweet) is in that case...


*I'm nervous about any light I cannot easily change the bulb on.*.. HID's that are supposed to be pretty bullet proof have proven themselves a dissappointment in many cases.

I therefore love HID's but do not trust them.

There are many threads out there about HID lamps going out in cars prematurely.


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## Patriot (Feb 3, 2009)

Hemlock Mike said:


> The 35 "flashlight" is large and comes with a shoulder strap. Mine lights up in a few seconds and is at full brightness in about 7 seconds.
> Mike




That's almost faster than my Polarions....:thinking: Even my other fast 35W starters with plenty of amps take 10-15 seconds and the Microfire takes 20+ seconds. Must be a good light...


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## windstrings (Feb 4, 2009)

I believe I remember Dan from Xeray explaining that all lights could be made to come up to full brightness very quick if they tuned the ballast for that.
However, Its done at the expense of shortening the bulb life.

Some folks feel that's a fair trade off and its OK, while others feel the HID bulbs are quite expensive and don't want the life cut by 1/3 or 1/2 just to get up to full brightness a few seconds sooner.

Most of these lights are so bright that even during initial fireup, they are plenty bright to stun an assaliant or burgler.
I think all of us like the idea of full instantaneous brightness.. "like with LED".

But don't mistake quick startup with quality... its merely a choice. A choice with an expense!


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## BVH (Feb 4, 2009)

Cutting typical HID bulb life from 3000 hrs to 2000 hours, IMHO, is not going to negatively affect the vast majority of HID light owners - again, in my humble opinion. I don't think the typical owner is going to reach that many hours before selling/upgrading. The military and/or safety services might be a different issue but I don't think the cost of bulbs is going to phase them one bit.


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## windstrings (Feb 4, 2009)

agreed for critical uses, bulb life is a minor concern.. especially since the price is dropping to reasonable levels now, unless you own a specialized hard to get bulb.


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## IMSabbel (Feb 4, 2009)

ABout the brightness: 7 seconds to full brightness doesnt seem to be true. May 75% or so. Its still getting gradually brighter for another 15 seconds at least.

Ah, and directly when switching on, there is a bright flash (about final brightness) for a fraction of a second. If you wanted to blind somebody, this might do already.


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## Patriot (Feb 4, 2009)

BVH said:


> Cutting typical HID bulb life from 3000 hrs to 2000 hours, IMHO, is not going to negatively affect the vast majority of HID light owners - again, in my humble opinion. I don't think the typical owner is going to reach that many hours before selling/upgrading. The military and/or safety services might be a different issue but I don't think the cost of bulbs is going to phase them one bit.




+1 to everything BVH stated.

My own personal guess is that quicker start up has more to do with developmental costs, parts, tuning time, or other factors than consideration for bulb life. In some applications longer life may be ultimately desirable such as in automotive headlamps, in aircraft, or maybe static lighting arrays and so on. 

In the case of hand held flash/spotlights, why would anyone prefer to wait 20-30 seconds for full brightness and color to come in just to increase the bulb life another thousand hours when the average person might never even put 500 hours on a bulb? 

Obviously frequent users already realize that HID's produce many hundreds of lumens almost instantly, but given the choice I'd rather have my lights come to full intensity very quickly when I take into consideration how small the handicap is.

I must commend Polarion for intentionally addressing the start-up time issue and minimizing it as much as possible.  I hope that other HID spotlight manufacturers look at them as the example of what performance should be.


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## windstrings (Feb 4, 2009)

I think Polarion made a fair assessment of the values of the customer rather than pure consideration for warranty issues later.

Whether building a sportscar or a light, making it faster and higher performance always causes a risk of parts wearing harder thus jeopardizing warranty.

As long as the customer knows the tradeoffs, or the advertised bulb life is accurate... there should be no foul.

I too would like a near instant HID light... seems the lights on my auto do just fine at starting up almost instantly... but my bulbs have already had issues too!


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## Patriot (Feb 4, 2009)

windstrings said:


> I think Polarion made a fair assessment of the values of the customer rather than pure consideration for warranty issues later.
> 
> Whether building a sportscar or a light, making it faster and higher performance always causes a risk of parts wearing harder thus jeopardizing warranty.
> 
> As long as the customer knows the tradeoffs, or the advertised bulb life is accurate... there should be no foul.




That's a great way of looking at it and cool that Polarion offers us a "sportscar" HID. Yes, it's not without added expense but at least it's available to professionals and enthusiasts.


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## windstrings (Feb 4, 2009)

I've had some lengthy discussions about polarion.

To the same degree that a sportscar is very flashy, tight on the curves, and expensive to drive to simply get from point A to point B, so the polarion is a bit expensive simply to throw some lumens down the road.

But to each his own.. if you have the money.. go for the Sportscar "and" the polarion... I wish I had the money for both!


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## vincevoxbox (Feb 28, 2009)

beam shots ? anyone ?


vince


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## windstrings (Apr 3, 2009)

Anyway.. I talked with Justin at Oracle and worst case scenario... theirs are warrantied for 1 year unconditionally first of all, second, its only 69.00 for the bulb/ballast combo.... I can live with that.

Considering how often HID bulbs normally go bad.. thats not bad... most HID bulbs are far more than that all by themselves anyway!

Also... Different manufacturers do share the same housings to avoid costs of making their own from scratch.


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