# Any thoughts on 70 watt KC-Pod



## Howecollc (Oct 20, 2009)

First time on this side of the forums. Anyone have any experience with these KC HiLites KC-Pod HID lights? After a quick look around here, I'm seeing some 100 watt and above set-ups, so maybe 70 watts isn't the big deal I had previously thought. But a 50 watt Helios isn't necessarily the same as any other old 50 watt, so I'm assuming wattage doesn't tell the whole story. I certainly intend to look around here more, so as not to be so green; but this KC has been on my mind ever since it came out, yet I've never spoken with anyone who knows a thing about it. They offer a long-range and a driving version, but of course I'm interested in the long-range.

I realize that most all of the spotlights here are hand-held, but for years I've thought of mounting a 130 watt halogen off-road light to a .50 caliber ammo can with an SLA or regular lead acid battery inside. The lower current draw/higher output of the HIDs makes this even more feasible. Probably wouldn't mount a $700 light to an ammo can, but the basic idea is represented.


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## Patriot (Oct 20, 2009)

I've never seen this one discussed before but I'm sure it's very nice quality. It's expensive at $1062.00 and then you'd have to work out a power supply. You probably wouldn't want to mess with a .50 cal box though since you could easily supply it with enough li-ion or li-po in a 1/4 of that volume. A .30 cal can might not be too big plus it's got a built in handle. Many options but by the time you build something you could be pushing $1500. This light would be close to 7000 lumens. 

You might look for a used Barnburner if you're going to spent this kind of $.


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## Ken J. Good (Oct 20, 2009)

Recently energized quite a few of the KC HID lights including the several of the 70-watt variants while at their display at a trade show in Wash DC.

I was curious as to the beam quality and overall light output.

Not impressed. It appears the reflectors are inefficient to say the least.
Brute force is one way to get light downrange and they need more of it to match a better made HID searchlight.

An opinion.


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## Howecollc (Oct 20, 2009)

Patriot said:


> I've never seen this one discussed before but I'm sure it's very nice quality. It's expensive at $1062.00 and then you'd have to work out a power supply. You probably wouldn't want to mess with a .50 cal box though since you could easily supply it with enough li-ion or li-po in a 1/4 of that volume. A .30 cal can might not be too big plus it's got a built in handle. Many options but by the time you build something you could be pushing $1500. This light would be close to 7000 lumens.
> 
> You might look for a used Barnburner if you're going to spent this kind of $.


I'll pay full retail for Surefires, high-end audio equipment, and Ralph Lauren shirts at the "big and tall" store, but that's the extent of it. The KCs can be had for under $700 on-line. That's pretty much going to be the majority of the expense in the setup I had in mind. My reason for choosing an SLA was that I can get a premium brand 18Ah for under $100. I know nothing of lithium polymer packs, but figured it a safe assumption that they would be much higher than SLAs. 

I'm really not all that keen on the ammo box solution. It's just that years ago, a motorcycle mechanic I know was showing me the lighting set-up he used for mobile work. It was a .30 caliber ammo box with a salvaged 35 watt motorcycle headlamp and switch bolted thru the lid, a salvaged 12Ah motorcycle battery in the box, and some cardboard for filler. He said he could use it for up to 3 hours at a time, and had replaced the battery once in 5 years. I loved the survivalist simplicity of it, and so was born my notion to build something along those lines, but with a lot more output. I really put some serious thought into it when KC first came out with their first 35 watt HIDs about 10 years ago, just never got around to it. Maybe a more professional looking box; possibly there's a Pelican case that would work lying on its side.

Anyhow, if there are other HIDs out there that can match or blow away the ouput of this setup for similar or less money, then it's likely not something I'll do. So you think the Barnburner will take it, huh?


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## Howecollc (Oct 20, 2009)

Ken J. Good said:


> Recently energized quite a few of the KC HID lights including the several of the 70-watt variants while at their display at a trade show in Wash DC.
> 
> I was curious as to the beam quality and overall light output.
> 
> ...


You slipped that post in while I was working on mine. So this is where the old-school CPFers hang out now, huh? I've seen your username in old thread searches, but never run across it in new threads. 

OK, so not very impressive; does it at least do well as a floodlight? What all here can beat it for throw? Can these Sam's/Costco Specials outdo it? Can it match the PF50 Polarion for its combination of flood and throw?


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## Howecollc (Oct 20, 2009)

So now, after some further reading, I know who Ken J Good is. Somehow, I missed his signature. The PF50 question seems rather loaded now, doesn’t it?


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## XeRay (Oct 20, 2009)

The KC 70 watt is rated based on Ballast input rather than bulb watts (the industry std). They are playing the same marketing game as the Asians.
That "brick sized" ballast product is closer to 62-63 watts to the bulb (we have a ballast sample) and they are using a std 35 watt rated bulb, currently Osram brand I believe. 
This is pushing a 35 watt bulb way to far. 50 watts "or so" should be max on a TRUE high quality 35 watt bulb. They put a lot of money into the carbon fiber housing and not so much $$ into the reflector. Carbon (light weight) is cool right now and it sells in their market(s).


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## BVH (Oct 20, 2009)

Dan, I'm surprised that the ballast is putting out that much power to the bulb. I thought the typical ballast loss was in the 25 to 30% range?


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## Patriot (Oct 20, 2009)

Howecollc said:


> Anyhow, if there are other HIDs out there that can match or blow away the ouput of this setup for similar or less money, then it's likely not something I'll do. So you think the Barnburner will take it, huh?




Yes, the Barnburner will output more light but they haven't been made in over two years. You'd have to find one used. Also, the run-time is rather short. If you're after a "survival" type HID with several hours of run-time, this isn't it and I don't know of any factory HID that will run more than 3 hours. 

Battery Junction is considering making a 75W light based on the L50 but to my knowledge nothing is planned for the near future. 

Based off of what XeRay stated about the KC light, you'd be much better off to find an inexpensive housing and supply your own bulb, ballast and battery.


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## XeRay (Oct 20, 2009)

BVH said:


> Dan, I'm surprised that the ballast is putting out that much power to the bulb. I thought the typical ballast loss was in the 25 to 30% range?


 
The most efficient ballasts loose only 8-10% (90-92%, just a few years ago 12-15% loss (85-88%) was very efficient. Most of the Asian made ballasts fall in the 15-20% (80-85%) loss range while some (not many) are 20-30% losses (70-80%). 
The more effiecient it is the less watts of heat the ballast case will put out. 
The more mass the case has the longer it takes to get hot but it will get hot unless there is a slight breeze of air or a lot of heatsink fins for surface area to transfer the heat to the air.


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## Patriot (Oct 20, 2009)

XeRay said:


> The more effiecient it is the less watts of heat the ballast case will put out.




Ha! It seems so basic but I never thought of it that way before Dan. So, any wattage not making it to the bulb is being lost through heat from the ballast. Very good.


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## XeRay (Oct 20, 2009)

Patriot said:


> Ha! It seems so basic but I never thought of it that way before Dan. So, any wattage not making it to the bulb is being lost through heat from the ballast. Very good.


 

Well there is also EMI and RFI but that is not worth counting, very small wattages there.

For our purposes the basic answer is yes.


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## Howecollc (Oct 20, 2009)

Alright, so what knowledge or opinion does anyone have of this older 35 watt KC model which can be had for $350.00 if you're willing to buy a pair? Surely these can at least equal or surpass the throw of all the $150.00 and under Northern/Costco type spotlights, can't they? If the output is sufficient, I have little doubt about the build quality; they are warrantied for 23 years, after all.


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## Patriot (Oct 21, 2009)

Howecollc said:


> Surely these can at least equal or surpass the throw of all the $150.00 and under Northern/Costco type spotlights, can't they? If the output is sufficient




Not necessarily. Remember you're asking about two different things here, "throw" and what I perceive you to mean "lumen output." There's no substitute for reflector size. Even a halogen H4 spotlight can out throw a smaller 35W hid. The 35W HID is still producing about 30% more lumen output, but the Halogen Cyclops is going to have the highest peak lux and thus the best throw. So, in that regard no, the KC isn't going to out throw any Northern or Costco light. Yes, it will provide more lumens and better lighting overall.

My big question with regards to your light purchase is what are you trying to accomplish? If you want a 35W all purpose HID in a small package, the N30 and L35 from Battery Junction is less than or close to what you're going to spend on light heads alone. The Xeray and L50 are slightly larger and more powerful and close to the price of the Carbon fiber bodied KC. The Tactical 35W HID is an all aluminum chassis light with a conventional shape and decent run-time. The ACRO RL-12 is a full aluminum, waterproof light that runs for an astonishing 3 hours! From the perspective of these other choices I think the KC lights are a bad pick but again it depends on what you're trying to accomplish.


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## Howecollc (Oct 21, 2009)

*Patriot*

Thanks for pointing out all the different models; I'm checking them out. I'll get back to you with a better answer after some further research.


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## Howecollc (Oct 21, 2009)

deleted


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## busylifemeto (Nov 22, 2009)

This is the greatest load or propoganda ever and thats now what this forum is about. I am the Australian distributor for the 70 watt ballast, I am an engineer, i have been to the factory and done my own tests. Xevision would you like to qualify you coments ? 35 watt lamp, Your kidding, what lengths will you go to.



XeRay said:


> The KC 70 watt is rated based on Ballast input rather than bulb watts (the industry std). They are playing the same marketing game as the Asians.
> That "brick sized" ballast product is closer to 62-63 watts to the bulb (we have a ballast sample) and they are using a std 35 watt rated bulb, currently Osram brand I believe.
> This is pushing a 35 watt bulb way to far. 50 watts "or so" should be max on a TRUE high quality 35 watt bulb. They put a lot of money into the carbon fiber housing and not so much $$ into the reflector. Carbon (light weight) is cool right now and it sells in their market(s).


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## XeRay (Nov 22, 2009)

busylifemeto said:


> This is the greatest load or propoganda ever and thats now what this forum is about. I am the Australian distributor for the 70 watt ballast, I am an engineer, i have been to the factory and done my own tests. Xevision would you like to qualify you coments ? 35 watt lamp, Your kidding, what lengths will you go to.


 
Sorry, I have looked at the unit and bulb up close and personal 2 years in a row at SEMA (trade show) and the company owner of KC told me it was a std bulb. I have also tested this ballast type personnally and talked to the manufacturer of this ballast type used by KC.
The ballast is from Taiwan but built in China (mainland) I believe.
GHC sells it with a (70W) D2S bulb made in S. Korea by Capcen. 
We have also tested this Capcen 70 watt bulb for one of our customers, It cannot compete with a Philips DL-50 of either type (Fatboy or /740).
KC has not been using this bulb from what I have seen. KC "must" be using a std D1S bulb, Philips or Osram.

Addl, reminder this ballast has a ~62 watt output, not 70 watts. It is about 70 watts input to the ballast.


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## Patriot (Nov 22, 2009)

busylifemeto said:


> This is the greatest load or propoganda ever and thats now what this forum is about. I am the Australian distributor for the 70 watt ballast, I am an engineer, i have been to the factory and done my own tests. Xevision would you like to qualify you coments ? 35 watt lamp, Your kidding, what lengths will you go to.




You've gotta' to love these, "I'm an engineer" posts. 


*busylife*, I don't really care what your title is when you don't even have the courtesy to list what your particular objection is. Right now, all we know is that you disagree with Xeray's statement about the "35W" bulb, but then you say nothing to correct or support the idea that it's anything but a 35W bulb. For all we know, you're arguing that it's 36W instead.


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## BVH (Nov 22, 2009)

busylifemeto said:


> This is the greatest load or propoganda ever and thats now what this forum is about.



I'm guessing that the "now" is really "noT" in his post. How unfortunate (if it is) in how it changes the meaning 180 degrees.


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## Patriot (Nov 23, 2009)

BVH said:


> I'm guessing that the "now" is really "noT" in his post. How unfortunate (if it is) in how it changes the meaning 180 degrees.



You could be right. I'll adjust my post for now in case he meant to say *not*.


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