# G&P's newest tactical: 12V miniturbo



## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 13, 2005)

The thread about a recently purchased 4x123A light got my curious what G&P has been up to. A bit of exploring turned up a new member of their T series: the X-12, a miniturbo sibling of the T-12. 

The T-9's miniturbo sibling, the 9S, has been renamed the X-9. It's also available from LEDWave and Camillus as the Z-3. Like the Z-3, the four G&Ps all use a plastic lens and a twistie with a momentary push-ON mode. 

The X-9 and X-12 are currently available on eBay (as the "X9" and "X12"). At $70 shipped to USA, the X-12 is the most affordable route I know of for a 220-lumen 12V Surefire-compatible flashlight. If you want to run it on three Pila 150S cells (or Wolf Eyes 150B), you'll need to add a Surefire A20 half-cell extender. Alternatively, you can add an A19 to an X9, but you'll need to buy a 12V G&P lamp assembly from Emilion, TradeDigit, Digilight USA, or one of the many "airsoft" online dealers in Asia.

Together with the company's 1W or 3W LED module, 5W tactical LED head, or 5W miniturbo LED head, G&P has a versatile lineup, particularly in the 9V sweet spot, where a single body can host a xenon tactical head, a xenon miniturbo head, or any of four combinations of LED module and head. 

For longer runtimes, use the X-12 or T-12 with a 9V lamp assembly or 5W LED module and two 168S or 17670 cells.

Digilight USA offers upscale versions of the G&P xenon products, with glass lenses and robust tactical clickie switches.


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## Trashman (Nov 13, 2005)

I also noticed that head last month while I was searching for a G & P product...I found it here: http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper.php?itm=GP-ACC-333_cat_Flash Light

The page doesn't go into detail, however, about the lamp assembly.

Here's a page from the same website that shows a whole bunch of G & P products:
http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper.php?cat=Flash+Light


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## wquiles (Nov 13, 2005)

Great links - thanks Paul & Trashman 

Will


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## Action (Nov 13, 2005)

Are G&P lights fully compatible with Surefire stuff? Say I wanted to attach a SRTH or KT2 head to the X-12 body, would this work OK? What if I wanted to attach (2) A19 extenders to this body to run 3 x 17670 batteries to the 12V light? Are the G&P bodies the same diameter as the 6P or 9P lights? Any chance that they could take a 18XXX battery without boring?


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## Trashman (Nov 13, 2005)

I think the WGC shop is mainly an airsoft site, but they sure have a lot of lights! I wasn't able to find that part of the website from the main page, for some reason. That turbo head that Paul in Maryland was linking to is also sold on the website as a 5W luxeon head($54). I wonder if it's a 'performer'? They also have 3 and 5w heads that look a lot like the Bug Out Gear heads.


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## Robocop (Nov 14, 2005)

At those prices some of their products would make a nice addition to my duty bag as a spare light. For some reason I can not find any prices on the G&P main web site listed in your post.
Just when I thought I had narrowed down my recent search for a better duty light I find these. I like the looks and simple designs of these lights.
Is this the company that makes the Rico 9 lamp assembly?


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 14, 2005)

So many questions!

For some context, see my review of the LEDWave Z-3.

Trashman, the light sold at you link is the older G&P 9S. It's the same light, but without the antiroll bezel and without the large knurls (easy to turn) on the tail switch.

Action, G&P's T series is completely compatible with Surefire's P series. I use the following Surefire parts on my Z-3: Z-49 clickie tail switch; A19 or A14 extender; Z44 tactical head; tailcap lanyard ring; bezel lanyard ring. Also the Z34 diffuser and orange tailcap, but these don't count because they're used on the Surefire head. The point is, if a part will fit a 9P, it'll fit the body of any of the G&P lights named above. I'm thinking of buying a second A19 to use three 168S cells with the 12V lamp. I currently use two 168S cells or three 150S cells; they fit fine, but sorry, there's no way the body can take 18xxx cells.

Trashman, G&P does, indeed, make the 3W and 5W modules for Bugout Gear. G&P's 41mm miniturbo reflector does a beautiful job focusing the beam of their xenon lamps; I assume that both 5w LEDs use the exact same reflectors as the xenon heads, except that when you buy the LED module/head I think you get a glass lens.

Speaking of lenses, the lens of the xenon miniturbo head pops right out. I tried replacing it with the glass from a 39mm UV multicoated lens filter, but the glass was too small. I've since bought 43 and 43.5mm filters but haven't yet sawed them open to extract the glass.

Robocop, G&P does not make RICO's Alpha 9 lamp assembly. RICO is a competitor; another company--I think one with "laser" in their name--is said to make the RICO lamp; I wrote to them to ask if it's true and where could I buy the lamp Stateside, but they didn't reply.


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## Trashman (Nov 14, 2005)

The one I linked to is the 3 cell version of the X-12, then, right? The head looks exactly the same. So, actually, if these lights are still using the G & P 'G' or the Surefire 'P' series lamp assemblies, then these turbo heads aren't really any larger and don't really turbo anything, right?


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 14, 2005)

Trashman said:


> The one I linked to is the 3 cell version of the X-12, then, right? The head looks exactly the same.


3-cell version, yes; X-12, no. In your link, the tailcap is slimmer. Also, I think the X-9 and X-12 have antiroll heads, while the 9S did not. Also, G&P claimed 175 lumens for the 9S, but claims just 120 lumens fo rthe X-9 and Z-3. Truth be told, the G&P lumen ratings are all over the map; I can't tell whether G&P gets confused or dealers make copy-and-paste errors. In the Z-3 listings, no mention is made of using "high pressure" xenon lamp. The X-9 does claim to use high-pressure xenon, but it's rated the same low 120 lumens, not the 175 lumens claimed by the 9S and Digilight USA T9.



Trashman said:


> So, actually, if these lights are still using the G & P 'G' or the Surefire 'P' series lamp assemblies, then these turbo heads aren't really any larger and don't really turbo anything, right?


Wrong. The T-9 and T-12 use lamp assemblies designed for 1.25-inch heads. The X-9 and X-12 use the same bulb but the sputtered aluminum reflector is MUCH wider(38mm, as I recall) and the head (bezel) is 1.62 inches (41mm), like the Streamlight TL-3. See my LEDWave review for comparison photos. The X-9 and X-12 throw much farther than the T-9 and T-12.


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## Action (Nov 14, 2005)

Just another few quick questions. If you were to compare say the X-9 vs. the current Surefire 9P, what would be your comments on the differences between these two lights? Also, how much nicer are the Digilight USA versions? What is the switch like vs the Surefire setup? Would you happen to know if you can just buy the 4 x 123 tube?

Thanks for posting this and all the info! I've been looking for a 4 x 123 tube...


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 14, 2005)

Action said:


> Just another few quick questions. If you were to compare say the X-9 vs. the current Surefire 9P, what would be your comments on the differences between these two lights?


Nearly anything I have to say about these lights can be found in my Z-3 review. Of course, the X-9 comes with a miniturbo, a head not even offered in the Surefire C/D/P lineup. A more apples-to-apples comparison would be the T-9 vs. 9P. 

Advantages of the T-9 are lower cost, a brighter bulb, a twistie with a momentary switch, and the fact that you can buy a Z-9 and turn it into a glass-lens T-9 by adding a $22 Surefire Z44 head! (Neither brand will sell you the miniturbo head/bezel alone).

the only advantage of the 9P that comes to mind is the glass lens. I suppose some would say that the P90's beam more even. You can't use a P91 lamp assembly in the stock T-9's plastic-lens bezel. The Z-3 claims to use HA-III coating; I don't see this claim in the G&P-branded models, so I'm guessing they don't have hard anodize.



Action said:


> Also, how much nicer are the Digilight USA versions?


Other than the glass lens and well-built clickie, I'd guess not at all. However, Digilight USA tested their tactical lineup with law enforcement officers (LEOs).



Action said:


> What is the switch like vs the Surefire setup?


The stock switch is a twistie. My Z49 clickie tailcap cost me about $35.



Action said:


> Would you happen to know if you can just buy the 4 x 123 tube?


You can't. But I urge you to get the Z-9 or Z-12 miniturbo and see how nicely it throws. My Z-3 gives my TL-3 a run for its money in the throw department. In fact, I dare say the Z-3's hot spot outthrows it but the TL-3's entire beam is nearly as bright as the Z-3's hot spot.



Action said:


> Thanks for posting this and all the info! I've been looking for a 4 x 123 tube...


At these prices with a miniturbo head, the LEDWave Z-3 + A-19 tube, G&P Z-9 + A19 tube, or Z-12 would be a steal. I only wish I could find a traffic cone that fits these heads; I'm looking...


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## Action (Nov 14, 2005)

Since I'm really only interested in the tube, do you have a good place to get the T-12 at a good price (I'm assuming that its less expensive than the X-12)?


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 14, 2005)

The only places I've seen the T-12 sold is airsoft dealers in Asia. I believe it sells for about $80. If you're in the USA or Europe, any savings will be wiped out by an exhorbitant shipping fee. 

I know, it's frustrating for Yanks that no one sells a T-12 tube within the USA.

I'd go to Lighthound's site (Surefireparts on eBay) and order a Surefire 9P tube + Surefire A19 extender. I think the total will be $60 plus shipping.

Well, I just thought of something else: on Ebay, the 4x123A Ultrafire Duo G120 sold by TradeDigit is a standout bargain at about $40 shipped. From its name, I'm guessing it's built on G&P's G12 platform...but with a glass lens! It even has a reverse clickie.


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## theamazingrando (Nov 14, 2005)

Slightly off-topic, but do you know a source in the US for the LEDwave "duo" led/xenon (Aviator type) lights?


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 14, 2005)

theamazingrando said:


> Slightly off-topic, but do you know a source in the US for the LEDwave "duo" led/xenon (Aviator type) lights?


Oh, a few...


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## Trashman (Nov 14, 2005)

Those Ultrafire lights aren't too shabby, from what I can tell. I got a two cell version last week and put a P61 in it. I light it a lot. Even the two cell version has a glass lens. I'm wondering, does Surefire make a 4-cell lamp assembly that is the same size as the 'P' series? 

Paul in Maryland, G & P ought to hire you as a spokes person! You seem to know everything about their products.


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## Flash_Gordon (Nov 15, 2005)

Hi Paul-

Great info as always. Don't know how you keep all this stuff sorted.

I think the best price based deal out there is the UltraFire 12V. $41 shipped. But, no miniturbo. So my next thought becomes, will the 12V range extender from Digilight fit? It seems to be the only separately available miniturbo.

If it does, add the Z49 and you have a neat setup with both heads and lamps for about $120.

Mark


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## Action (Nov 15, 2005)

I believe that Emilion sells the Ultrafire range as well. When I contacted him previously about compatibility with Surefire heads and tailcaps, he said that the Ultrafire range could only use the bulb assemblies (P90, P91, P60, P61), not any of the regular attachments.

Its looking like the X-12 is the relative bargain, I was hoping to find a T-12 for less, but its looking like its not possible...


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## wquiles (Nov 15, 2005)

Paul,

I have read all of your posts above and I am "still" confused about all of the possible units combinations that work and not with regular SF parts.

This is what I understand so far:
- The X-12 and T-12 are the same unit, but the X-12 has the mini turbo head, and both interchange parts with the SF units. Does this include the SF lamps?

- The T-9 and T-12 use lamp assemblies designed for 1.25-inch heads. The X-9 and X-12 use the same bulb but the sputtered aluminum reflector is MUCH wider. So again, does this means that the SF lamps (P90/92 for the 3xcell) fit all of these?

Then there are higher quality variations of these with glass lenses, but some that don't share the interchangeability with the SF units. And that is when I get lost 

Would it be too much to ask for a simple table that lists which models are compatible with what?

Thanks in advance,

Will


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 15, 2005)

Flash_Gordon said:


> Hi Paul-
> 
> Great info as always. Don't know how you keep all this stuff sorted.


I'm able to do so because the G&P lineup is so concise and rational!



Flash_Gordon said:


> I think the best price based deal out there is the UltraFire 12V. $41 shipped. But, no miniturbo. So my next thought becomes, will the 12V range extender from Digilight fit? It seems to be the only separately available miniturbo.


Sorry, the answer is No. I own Digilight's 12V range extender head AND the similar head that came with the LEDWave Z-3. Guess what? My Digilight head won't fit the Z-3!! I think though, that the new 12v Digilight heads will fit it. Their first generation didn't even fit Diglight's own 9V head. But to summarize, no G&P-made miniturbo head will fit the Ultrafires. Period.

The cheapest way to get a 4x123a, 12v, 227-lumen, glass-lens, clickie-equipped, Surefire-compatible light is to buy the $100 T12 from Digilight! If only Digilight offered the miniturbo in stock form, and not solely as a $37 option.

If someone can confirm that a glass lens comes in every G&P 3W and 5W LED head (tactical and miniturbo), that would be great.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 15, 2005)

wquiles said:


> - The X-12 and T-12 are the same unit, but the X-12 has the mini turbo head, and both interchange parts with the SF units. Does this include the SF lamps?


 Yes.

- The T-9 and T-12 use lamp assemblies designed for 1.25-inch heads. The X-9 and X-12 use the same bulb but the sputtered aluminum reflector is MUCH wider. So again, does this means that the SF lamps (P90/92 for the 3xcell) fit all of these?[/QUOTE]No, because Surefire (like Wolf Eyes and Pila) welds the lamp to the reflector. I'd like to use my RICO Alpha 9 250-lumen 9V lamp (bulb) in the G&P reflector. The lamp easily unscrews from the RICO reflector. but its shoulder is too large to fit the G&P miniturbo reflector. 



wquiles said:


> Then there are higher quality variations of these with glass lenses, but some that don't share the interchangeability with the SF units. And that is when I get lost
> 
> Would it be too much to ask for a simple table that lists which models are compatible with what?


That's a great idea, Will. and I'm definitely the man to create it! I'll try to do it this weekend (in a separately titled thread under Incandescents). If I don't come through, send me a PM weekly till I do! What we're talking about is a table that sorts out the quality levels and compatibility (part by part) of Surefire-compatible (T and X series) lineups from G&P, LEDWave, Digilight USA, Camillus, and any other brand we can think of.


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## wquiles (Nov 15, 2005)

Thanks much Paul. I certainly look forward to it 

Will


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 15, 2005)

This evening, using a simple hand file, I removed the multicoated glass from a 43mm lens filter. Ta-daaah! It fits in the G*P 43mm miniturbo head just fine. I got mine--a Fotofox--on eBay for about $12 shipped. Search for Fotodiox 43mm UV filter. For other sizes, search for Fotodiox UV filter.

For other brands, search for 43mm filter UV MC or 43mm filter UV multicoated.

I'd guess that these multicoated filters transmit more light than the glass in Digilight's miniturbo.


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## Action (Nov 16, 2005)

I bit the bullet and ordered an X-12. It'll be interesting to see how it looks and works...

To remove the glass, did you just file through the edges of the filter holder?


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 16, 2005)

Yes. The first time, it took me about 300 strokes of the file. The second time, about 250. 

See my thread on removing the glass from a photographic lens filter.


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## lexina (Nov 18, 2005)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> The T-9 and T-12 use lamp assemblies designed for 1.25-inch heads. The X-9 and X-12 use the same bulb but the sputtered aluminum reflector is MUCH wider(38mm, as I recall) and the head (bezel) is 1.62 inches (41mm), like the Streamlight TL-3.



Hi, Paul,

For more flexibility, I am considering getting an X9 together with a G&P 1-cell extender instead of an X12 to run the G12 lamp on 4 CR123s. I may also sometimes wish to run a 9V lamp using 2 protected 17670s on the same setup. I seem to recall however, that you mentioned in one of your posts that the G&P extender was too narrow for the 17670s. Is that the case?

Secondly, as you pointed out above, the lamp assemblies for the X9 and X12 have larger reflectors than those for the T9 and T12. Does this mean that lamp assemblies for the X-series would not fit into the T-series and conversely, a P90/G90 lamp assembly, for eg., would be too small for the X9? Thanks.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 18, 2005)

lexina said:


> For more flexibility, I am considering getting an X9 together with a G&P 1-cell extender instead of an X12 to run the G12 lamp on 4 CR123s.


A good idea, but be careful not to leave the 9V lamp in place when you apply 12V.



lexina said:


> I may also sometimes wish to run a 9V lamp using 2 protected 17670s on the same setup. I seem to recall however, that you mentioned in one of your posts that the G&P extender was too narrow for the 17670s. Is that the case?
> 
> 
> > Yes. Use a Surefire A19 extender, or volunteer to find out for us whether the bargain-priced Power-Up 1-cell extender ($10 shipped on eBay) will fit! It's made by airsoft maker King Arms.
> ...


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## lexina (Nov 18, 2005)

> Yes. Use a Surefire A19 extender, or volunteer to find out for us whether the bargain-priced Power-Up 1-cell extender ($10 shipped on eBay) will fit! It's made by airsoft maker King Arms.
> 
> Yes on both counts: The miniturbo lamp assembly will be too wide and deep to fit the T9/T12 "tactical" heads, and a P90/G90 lamp assembly will be far too shallow to fit work in the X9/X12 miniturbo head.
> 
> I've moved them back and forth between reflectors, and they work, but I can't say whether they work "as well" when placed in the other reflector.



Thanks, Paul. I guess my best option for a 4-cell would be to get the X9 since I already have an A19 for my 6P. Hopefully, the A19 will fit on the X9. Surprisingly, I couldn't fit the A19 on my G&P T-8; it starts threading fine but stops short.

From what you wrote above, it seems that if I want to use my P90 on the X9+A19 (using 2 17670s), I would need to swap the bulbs. Is this easily done? I have never tried taking out the bulb from any of the P60s/P90s that I have.

Finally, do you know if the mini-turbo head from the X9 fits the P6? I may have to move the mini-turbo head to the 6P and use 2 A19s if my A19 can't fit on the X9.

Thanks again.
Alex


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 18, 2005)

lexina said:


> Surprisingly, I couldn't fit the A19 on my G&P T-8; it starts threading fine but stops short.


And my G&P tactical head (glass lens) won't screw all the way onto my LEDWave body...but my Surefire Z44 tactical head will! I don't understand.



lexina said:


> From what you wrote above, it seems that if I want to use my P90 on the X9+A19 (using 2 17670s), I would need to swap the bulbs. Is this easily done? I have never tried taking out the bulb from any of the P60s/P90s that I have.


Alex, sorry, but you can't remove the bulb from a Surefire lamp assembly P60 or P90. The bulb and reflector are joined together. But why bother? I doubt you'll see an improvement over the G90 lamp. In fact, depending on which published specs you believe (120 lumens, 140, 175...), the high-pressure xenon G90 may be brighter than the P90.



lexina said:


> Finally, do you know if the mini-turbo head from the X9 fits the P6?


It should. This is the first time anyone's mentioned it, but I've been wondering when someone would try to use this head on a 2x123A body. I can see it now: G&P's 5W LED miniturbo on a 2-cell body, powered by two RCR123A cells! 



lexina said:


> I may have to move the mini-turbo head to the 6P and use 2 A19s if my A19 can't fit on the X9.


The Surefire A19 should fit the X9 perfectly. I use an A19 (or sometimes, an A14) on my LEDWave Z-3.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 19, 2005)

Action said:


> What if I wanted to attach (2) A19 extenders to this body to run 3 x 17670 batteries to the 12V light?


Action, you've inspired me. I've just ordered a second A19 ($17 shipped from LPS Tactical) and will use it with three Wolf Eyes 168B cells. The 3x150B cells were barely getting me through a week of street crossings. I'll keep the 150B cells in my bag to use as spares (with one A19 extender removed).

I wish I had three of AW's 17670 protected cells to try; at 1600 mAh, they should have enough "juice" to power the 12V lamp (1.8A, by my estimate) with a single click.


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## lexina (Nov 20, 2005)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> I've just ordered a second A19 ($17 shipped from LPS Tactical) and will use it with three Wolf Eyes 168B cells.



Hi Paul,

Do let us know when your A19 arrives, if the 3 168Bs works well with your Z3 plus 2 A19s.

I currently have a 6P and an A19. I have just ordered a G12 bulb from emillion and a King's Arm 1-cell extender. Finally, we will know if the King's Arm is compatible with the 6P! If so, I will have a 4-cell light (6P plus 2 extenders) on which I can fit the G12 which I believe is compatible with the normal tactical head of the 6P and Not compatible with the bigger mini-turbo head of the X12.

I am now considering if I should get a 4-cell light which, together with my 2 extenders, will allow me to run 3 of Aw's 17670s (hopefully, but no one has confirmed this yet) with the 12V bulb.

MY QUESTION is, should I get one of the generic 4-cell light such as the UltraFire12 from emillion or the equivalent from TradeDigit; or should I cough up for the X12 for the mini-turbo head and the Surefire compatibility? The generic 4-cells can be had for only about $35 whereas the X12 goes for $70 inclusive of shipping. Do you think the mini-turbo head is worth the doubling of the price? How much benefit can I expect, other than aesthetics of course since a 6-cell light with a tactical head looks odd, like carrying a length of pipe! Your opinion is much appreciated. Thanks, Paul.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 21, 2005)

lexina said:


> Do let us know when your A19 arrives, if the 3 168Bs works well with your Z3 plus 2 A19s.


As soon as I know, you'll know, in this thread. Of course, given that I've blown two G120 lamps by powering them hot off the charger, I'll let my 168B cells cool down for two days! Ah, the torture of waiting! No, wait: I'll have them already charged and cooled down. Whew!



lexina said:


> I currently have a 6P and an A19. I have just ordered a G12 bulb from emillion and a King's Arm 1-cell extender. Finally, we will know if the King's Arm is compatible with the 6P!


The King's Arm will definitely fit a 6P. The only question is, can it hold AW's protected cells (R123A, 17500, and 17670)? The G&P is too narrow. Let's hope King's Arm didn't make the same mistake.



lexina said:


> If so, I will have a 4-cell light (6P plus 2 extenders) on which I can fit the G12 which I believe is compatible with the normal tactical head of the 6P and Not compatible with the bigger mini-turbo head of the X12.


I have a G90 at home; I'll try to remember to test it with my surefire Z44 tactical head. If it fits the Z44, it probably fits the Surefire stock 6P head.



lexina said:


> I am now considering if I should get a 4-cell light which, together with my 2 extenders, will allow me to run 3 of Aw's 17670s (hopefully, but no one has confirmed this yet) with the 12V bulb.


Judging by AW's specs, it should work, which will save everyone a heap of money in cells (two sets!) and charger. If you plan to charge the 17670 cells in a car, the only DC chargers I've found are the Wolf Eyes / Pila and Microfire. Each will set you back $27 to $30. If you don't get a spare set of cells, you'll probably want a spare charger. Remember: Once you charge these cells, you'll have to wait at least a day, preferably two, before using them safely with your G120 lamp. Can you wait? I didn't think so. 



lexina said:


> MY QUESTION is, should I get one of the generic 4-cell light such as the UltraFire12 from emillion or the equivalent from TradeDigit; or should I cough up for the X12 for the mini-turbo head and the Surefire compatibility? The generic 4-cells can be had for only about $35 whereas the X12 goes for $70 inclusive of shipping. Do you think the mini-turbo head is worth the doubling of the price? How much benefit can I expect, other than aesthetics of course since a 6-cell light with a tactical head looks odd, like carrying a length of pipe! Your opinion is much appreciated. Thanks, Paul.


Good questions. Arguments in favor of the Ultrafire: Cheap, slim, available in silver or black, glass lens, uses G&P's highest-spec'd lamp (according to the ads), clickie tailcap (reverse clickie). Arguments against it: Probably poor heat dissipation, no extenders available, and hence no way to use rechargeables with the stock lamp; can't use a turbo head; can't use Surefire tailcaps, can't use Surefire lanyard rings (head or tail), probably no rubber gasketing.

For me, the use of rechargeables outweighs everything else. Hence, only the Ultrafire 90 would be a good deal.

Yeah, a 6x123A body looks odd. But Mags come in similarly long length-to-width ratios.

The G&P boosts throw considerably. Even my 9V LEDWave, rated at 120 lumens could match my TL-3 in throw, BUT only in the very center of the the beam. My G120 lamp in the turbohead will beat a TL-3 in throw...but only in the center of its beam. The thing is, the turboheads are now priced so low, it would be criminal to pass them up! So get an X-3, X-4, or LEDWave Z-3; if the head is too large, spend $20 and get a Surefire Z44 tactical head and a new G&P lamp (for the tactical reflector).


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## lexina (Nov 21, 2005)

Thanks, Paul. I have just gone ahead to order an X12. Now for the long wait!

Alex


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 27, 2005)

Folks, as Lexina knows, I've hot-flashed another G120 lamp, using 150B cells that had been charged days earlier and had about 20 minutes of use. I've given up on this idea: From now on, I plan to use just "9V" lamps for my incans. Sorry to have misled you all into thinking that 3x168 and a G120 would be a great way to go. I'm even shy about powering a G120 with three 150B/150S cells (17500s won't work); though I've used them successfully, I think I've also hotflashed a G120 this way.

The G120 should be fine with four 123A primary cells--but it'll cost you about $6 an hour.


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## lexina (Nov 27, 2005)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> The G120 should be fine with four 123A primary cells--but it'll cost you about $6 an hour.


 
If $6 an hour sounds heavy, I guess the best option for a 4-cell light would be to run a 9v lamp on 2 17670s.

Paul, my X12 will come with a 12v mini-turbo lamp assembly. If I want to run a 9v bulb on this assembly, can I just twist off a bulb from one of my GP90s and replace the bulb on the X12 assembly? 

Do you know where I can buy a 9v lamp assembly (bulb plus reflector) for the X12? eHobby Asia which sells the X9 and X12 don't seem to carry spare lamp assemblies for these lights. Thanks.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 27, 2005)

lexina said:


> If $6 an hour sounds heavy, I guess the best option for a 4-cell light would be to run a 9v lamp on 2 17670s.


That's what I'm doing now!



lexina said:


> Paul, my X12 will come with a 12v mini-turbo lamp assembly. If I want to run a 9v bulb on this assembly, can I just twist off a bulb from one of my GP90s and replace the bulb on the X12 assembly?


Yes. But I'm starting to believe that there may be one or more geometric differences between the 9V and 12V bulb; the regular and high-pressure bulb; and/or the 9V and 12V reflector. I say this because I recently discovered that an Alpha 9 lamp WILL fit my 9V G&P small reflector, even though it would NOT fit my 12V small reflector!!! I'm now using this combination. It's brighter than G&P's brightest 9V, but less bright than G&P's 12V or a Surefire P91. I'm trying to buy one or two more bodies so I can test all my 9V lamps at once and take beam shots with my new digital camera; give me a couple weeks!

I also am now convinced, Lexina, that there truly are two versions of G&P's lamps, it's not just hype, and that you want to make sure you get the 9V rated 175 lumens. The two 12V versions are quite close in output (220 and 200 lumens), but in the 9V lineup, you're talking 175 lumens vs. 120 (or 130).

The only sources I know of for extra lamp assemblies are Digilight USA $20 per lamp assembly plus $8 fixed shipping within the USA) and the TradeDigit eBay store. And the only source for a 9V or 12V miniturbo lamp assembly is Digilight USA--which, happily, will include the 175-lumen lamp. But why spend $38 when all you need is a lamp from the $20 assembly? Besides, you'll be getting another turbohead when you buy the G&P 5W LED module, right?


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## lexina (Nov 28, 2005)

Well, I received my X12 in the mail today!  First thing I did was to check if the bezel and tail-cap would fit my 6P+A19. Good news is the bezels and tail-caps are completely compatible! 

In fact, the mini-turbo head looks more "balanced" in my 3-cell 6P+A19 than in the X12 and I will probably leave this as my standard configuration since I can't see myself using 4 non-rechargeables on the X12. I managed to run the stock 12v bulb on this 3-cell setup with 2 of Aw's protected 17500s providing just 8.4v and am quite pleased with the light output (not as much difference from the GP90 as I would have expected - and makes me wonder if the 12v bulb is actually more in the region of 10-11v, which would explain why the 12v bulb seems to blow relatively easily on 3 rechargeables).

What I want to do next is to replace the 12v bulb in the mini-turbo with the 9v bulb in my GP90 to see if this will be brighter (running on 2 17500s). I know I have aked you this before, Paul, but I am still nervous about twisting the bulbs off my 12v and 9v lamp assemblies. How are the bulbs connected to the assemblies? Are they bi-pin in which case I should just pull them straight out with a plier or are they treaded in which case I should just twist them off? Thanks.

Oh, btw, the glass lens from a 43mm filter I bought fit the mini-turbo bezel perfectly. Thanks for the tip, Paul.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 28, 2005)

Lexina,

I think the miniturbo makes these lights beautiful, regardless of which body their on. You can see the 9V combo on Digilight's site. There's nothing to stop you from using the miniturbo on your 2x123A P6 body, running the 9V lamp with two unprotected 123As or running a 6V G&P lamp with two 123A primaries! Come to think of it, doesn't Surefire's own L4 have such a lopsided head-to-body ratio?

The bulb has a male-threaded base that screws right into and out of the reflector. The RICO Alpha 9 works this way, too. If you've ever inserted a PR potted bulb, it's the same concept, except threaded. No wires, no fragile pins, no worries. Once you experience how easily it screws in and out, you'll wonder why anyone would fool with bipins.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 28, 2005)

Great news, G&P fans: Digilight's tactical xenon lights and miniturbo lamp assemblies are available at Blackrifles.com at a cost appreciably below the direct-from-Digilight cost! They don't yet stock the replacement high-pressure xenon lamp assemblies for 1.25-inch bezels that we all covet. But I've just written to ask "when will you be stocking these?" and will let you know within minutes of learning the answer. Judging from their other prices, I think we can expect to see a price of $15 per lamp assembly.


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## sig-in-tx (Nov 29, 2005)

What the price on the A2 copy I wonder? 
http://www.gp-web.com/en/productspop.php?pid=705


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 29, 2005)

I heard back from Dan of blackrifles.com. They do indeed stock Digilight xenon lamps. Currently he has in stock two 6V, two 9V, and one 12V, plus two each of the 9V and 12V miniturboheads (with lamp). He'll be stocking more replacement lamp assemblies, and if CPFers need a constant supply of them, he's ready to have them on hand! He didn't mention the price, but the lamps and many more items will be posted on the Web site as time permits.


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## lexina (Nov 29, 2005)

sig-in-tx said:


> What the price on the A2 copy I wonder?
> http://www.gp-web.com/en/productspop.php?pid=705


 

I have this light (the T8). It's different from the A2 in that there is no regulation on the incandescent light. The light from the incandescent is also about 10% less bright than the P60. Other than that, it's a pretty nifty light. My only complaint is that I can't use RCR123s on it since they would blow the 6v bulb. I have come across another version which has the leds mated with a GP90 9v bulb and this WOULD be able to take RCR123s.

Airsoft-armory has the T8 at US$49.
http://www.airsoft-armory.com/Catalog.aspx?Catalogtype=ProductList&Category=Accessories&SubCategory=Optics&Series=Flashlights


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## lexina (Nov 29, 2005)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> The only sources I know of for extra lamp assemblies are Digilight USA $20 per lamp assembly plus $8 fixed shipping within the USA) and the TradeDigit eBay store. And the only source for a 9V or 12V miniturbo lamp assembly is Digilight USA--which, happily, will include the 175-lumen lamp. But why spend $38 when all you need is a lamp from the $20 assembly? Besides, you'll be getting another turbohead when you buy the G&P 5W LED module, right?


 
ok, Paul, I managed to remove the lamp from the X12 reflector by unscrewing the base and replacing with a 9V lamp from my GP90. But I noticed that the hole in the X12 reflector was too big (to fit the larger 12v lamp) causing a double ring to appear when I use the 9v lamp. Did you have the same problem when you changed from 12v to 9v lamps? 

Looks like I need a separate reflector for the 9V lamp. Do you know where I can get a 9v lamp assembly (bulb plus reflector but minus the bezel) for the mini-turbo head? Digilight seems to sell the whole extender head with lamp, reflector and mini-turbo bezel together. Thanks.


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## Action (Nov 30, 2005)

I got my X-12 the other day. Quite an impressive light for the price. It does not feel quite as good in the hand as say my 9P, but the light output for $$ spent makes this light very nice. I would highly recommend it for most people, as its noticeably brighter than a 9P, even a SRTH equipped 9P, and much less expensive.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 30, 2005)

lexina said:


> ok, Paul, I managed to remove the lamp from the X12 reflector by unscrewing the base and replacing with a 9V lamp from my GP90. But I noticed that the hole in the X12 reflector was too big (to fit the larger 12v lamp) causing a double ring to appear when I use the 9v lamp. Did you have the same problem when you changed from 12v to 9v lamps?


I believe you've confirmed what I have suspected: The high-pressure-xenon lamps have a slightly different geometry. Specifically, they use longer bulbs.

I _think_.

I, too, have found that my G90's G90 bulb _won't_ focus properly in the 9V LEDWave or 12V Digilight miniturbo head. But a genuine high-pressure-xenon 175-lumen G&P G90 _will_. 

At least I think that this is the distinction, and not that the 12V bulb is longer (taller) or the bulb provided with a miniturbo head is longer. I simply haven't kept good records. If only G&P would publish more data; I've never seen a high-volume manufacturer keep such a low profile. Digilight USA has told me that the reflector used in their 9V and 12V miniturbo heads is identical (same part number).

I think some answers can be found by studying the photos (scans) in my reviews of the LEDWave Z-3 and RICO Alpha 9.



lexina said:


> Looks like I need a separate reflector for the 9V lamp. Do you know where I can get a 9v lamp assembly (bulb plus reflector but minus the bezel) for the mini-turbo head? Digilight seems to sell the whole extender head with lamp, reflector and mini-turbo bezel together. Thanks.


I'm afraid that no one sells the miniturbo lamp assembly without the miniturbo head. At least the price is now $5 lower now that that rifle dealer sells Digilight. Think of it as buying the miniturbo head for $18 and getting a spare 9V lamp assembly for $15.


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## lexina (Nov 30, 2005)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> I believe you've confirmed what I have suspected: The high-pressure-xenon lamps have a slightly different geometry. Specifically, they use longer bulbs.


 
I was comparing a GP90 lamp (which says "High Pressure" on the label) and the stock G12 (non-High Pressure) lamp from the X12. The GP90 is noticeably shorter and thinner than the G12 but I am not sure if the size difference is due to the voltage difference (9V vs 12V) or the fact that one of them is High Pressure and the other is not as I do not have a non-High Pressure GP90 to compare with.



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Digilight USA has told me that the reflector used in their 9V and 12V miniturbo heads is identical (same part number).
> 
> I'm afraid that no one sells the miniturbo lamp assembly without the miniturbo head. .


 
Good thing is, if the reflector used in the 9V and 12V miniturbo heads are identical, I won't need to source for a lamp assembly without the head.



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> At least the price is now $5 lower now that that rifle dealer sells Digilight. Think of it as buying the miniturbo head for $18 and getting a spare 9V lamp assembly for $15.


 
Unfortunately, since your posting appeared, Black Rifles has INCREASED their price for the 9V mini-turbo head with assembly from $30.99 to $36.95 (same as Digilight direct)!


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Dec 1, 2005)

lexina said:


> Unfortunately, since your posting appeared, Black Rifles has INCREASED their price for the 9V mini-turbo head with assembly from $30.99 to $36.95 (same as Digilight direct)!


What a shame. At least they're now listing the tactical-size replacement lamp assemblies ($17 and $18).


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Dec 4, 2005)

As I write, there's a complete G&P 5W miniturbo LED 3x123A flashlight on eBay for about $80 shipped. Add a Digilight 9V xenon lamp and you have a switch-hitting miniturbo 3x123A light for about $108 shipped.


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## lexina (Dec 5, 2005)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> As I write, there's a complete G&P 5W miniturbo LED 3x123A flashlight on eBay for about $80 shipped. Add a Digilight 9V xenon lamp and you have a switch-hitting miniturbo 3x123A light for about $108 shipped.


 
Yup, noticed it on the site too It's an X9 with a 5W mini-turbo head. The same 5W lamp with either a mini-turbo or tactical head is sold at Redwolfairsoft for $54. Am now wondering whether to get this or the Nuwai TM301-X5. No success in finding any reviews on the X9 with 5W mini-turbo yet.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Dec 5, 2005)

Lexina,
Back to the 12V lamp--do you think it would be "safe" (for the bulb and the cells) to run it on two 17500 cells and one 123A primary cell in the X12 body? This combo would be a compromise between "free lumens" and "$6 per hour" lumens. I think the 3V primary cell would ensure that the bulb would not hot flash. What do you think?

I sure miss my 12V G&P lamp; it was the only lamp I've tried that could make a traffic wand glow like a light saber in broad daylight.


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## lexina (Dec 5, 2005)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Lexina,
> Back to the 12V lamp--do you think it would be "safe" (for the bulb and the cells) to run it on two 17500 cells and one 123A primary cell in the X12 body? This combo would be a compromise between "free lumens" and "$6 per hour" lumens. I think the 3V primary cell would ensure that the bulb would not hot flash. What do you think?
> 
> I sure miss my 12V G&P lamp; it was the only lamp I've tried that could make a traffic wand glow like a light saber in broad daylight.


 
I recall reading in your review of the Ledwave Z3 that you blew a Digilight 12v lamp doing exactly that. I am also at a loss as to why it happened since the combined voltage should be much less than 12v. Perhaps the next thing to try would be two 3v primary cells and one rechargeable (RCR123/17670/18500) depending on the tube length. Generally though, I avoid mixing cells since it may lead to "reverse charging" if one cell drains off before the rest.

As for my 12v lamp, I am underdriving it on 2 17670s as i am reluctant to put in 4 primary cells!


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## lexina (Dec 5, 2005)

Paul,

Just thought of another thing. Have you considered using the new 3V nominal protected rechargeable 123s available from J S Burly's? These are supposed to be direct replacements for the regular 123s. They are kinda expensive (will need 4 of them) but they may be the solution to our 12v-free lumens dilemma.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Dec 6, 2005)

lexina said:


> Paul,Just thought of another thing. Have you considered using the new 3V nominal protected rechargeable 123s available from J S Burly's?


Thanks, but if they're protected, I doubt they would illuminate 
the G&P 12V lamp. Even my AW 17500 protected cells couldn't. Even if they could, runtime would be marginal. To my thinking, RCR123A cells are for LEDs.


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## flash99dark (Dec 8, 2005)

I just got my Z3 Targeter ledwave from Knifeoutlet.com and would like to know where I can get an extra bulb/assembly. I have the turbo head model exactly like Paul's and not the one pictured on the Knifeoutlet website.
I have a Z44 head on order from Lighthound.com and already have A19 plus several types of clickie/non-clickie Surefire tail caps. I also have a few 168s & 150s Pila. I would like to run the 175 lumen with an option to put in the 12v 227 lumen with the A19. 
I have tried to follow all of the various posts on this but I am a bit confused as
the exact website and part number to 1. get an extra bulb/lamp for the 9Volt
[mine says L2 on it) 2. get a 12v lamp to use as an option. Thanks ahead William
P.S. I recently sold my Surefire M3 and must say I like the beam better on the Z3. I find it hard to belive that it is only 120L. The M3 had a lot of power but I did not care for the oval beam shape


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## beakman (Dec 8, 2005)

Does anybody know if the Ledwave Z-3 miniturbo head will fit on the Ledwave Z-1 Kommando flashlight?

the beakman


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Dec 9, 2005)

flash99dark said:


> I just got my Z3 Targeter ledwave from Knifeoutlet.com and would like to know where I can get an extra bulb/assembly.


The only source for the 9V miniturbo lamp assembly is Digilight USA or its eBay dealer: $37 plus $8 shipping. If all you want is a spare lamp to screw into your miniturbo reflector, get the Digilight nonturbo lamp assembly ($18 plus shipping from the dealer) or the identical G&P 175-lumen nonturbo high-pressure lamp assembly from TradeDigit's eBay store (about $25 shipped, as I recall). Don't try using the standard G90, 105-lumen lamp in the miniturbo; I think the glass isn't long enough, and besides, a great stochastic reflector like the G&P deserves more lumens.



> I have the turbo head model exactly like Paul's and not the one pictured on the Knifeoutlet website.


Yes, there are two varieties: Only one is roll-resistant. Likewise, there are two varieties of the tailcap: only one is oversize and roll-resistant. It's maddening, isn't it?



> I have a Z44 head on order from Lighthound.com and already have A19 plus several types of clickie/non-clickie Surefire tail caps. I also have a few 168s & 150s Pila. I would like to run the 175 lumen with an option to put in the 12v 227 lumen with the A19.
> I have tried to follow all of the various posts on this but I am a bit confused as the exact website and part number to 1. get an extra bulb/lamp for the 9Volt [mine says L2 on it) 2. get a 12v lamp to use as an option. Thanks ahead William[


You and I have pretty much the exact same set of options, William. In my commuting bag is a Z-3 with an A19 extender, Z44 head, Z48 tailcap, and Dililght 9V tactical (small) lamp assembly.

As I've written in this thread and elsewhere, I've lost faith in the 227-lumen/Pila solution. I've hot-flashed all three of my 12V lamps this way, although I did get four good cycles out of my final set. Four 3.0V lithium-ions can't power this 1.8A lamp; the 12V won't even work with thre eAW 17500 cells. The only CPFer who's delighted with his G&P 12V lamp is using three unprotected RCR123A cells. Evidently these cells will suffer enough voltage sag to keep the voltage safely below 12V.



> P.S. I recently sold my Surefire M3 and must say I like the beam better on the Z3. I find it hard to belive that it is only 120L. The M3 had a lot of power but I did not care for the oval beam shape


I'm convinced that the 120-lumen lamp that comes on the LEDWave Z-3 is identical to the 175-lumen lamp that comes on the Digilight T9, Ultrafire G90, and G&P 9S miniturbos. It's maddening that the 105-lumen, 120-, and 175-lumen lamps are all labeled G90. The Z-3's beam is brilliant white, a color matched only by my RICO Alpha 9. Its tiny hot spot will outthrow a Streamlight TL-3. The 227-lumen 12V lamp essentially matches the Surefire P91 in total output; the P91's beam is more perfect in shape and uniformity but the G&P beam is about 20 percent wider--so wide that you won't be tempted to use a difffuser.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Dec 10, 2005)

BlackRifles.com has cut the prices on their Digilight USA T9 and T12 to $60 and $80 plus $7.70 US shipping. So I bought the T9 to replace my recently sold Wolf Eyes 9MX.

I was hoping to standardize on 168 cells, but I have four sets of 150S and 17500 cells and no light to put them in. Finally I'll have a second Surefire-P-compatible body to directly compare various 9V lamp assemblies and heads.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Dec 10, 2005)

flash99dark said:


> I just got my Z3 Targeter ledwave from Knifeoutlet.com and would like to know where I can get an extra bulb/assembly.


The lamp assembly alone would cost you $26 to $28 shipped from Blackrifles.com or DigilightUSA.com. TradeDigit sells it for $16 shipped, but how about ordering their entire Ultrafire Duo 175-lumen flashlight, with a glass lens, for $32 shipped? Then tell us how you like the Ultrafire...and whether it can accept your Z-3's head or tailcap.


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## flash99dark (Dec 13, 2005)

Paul,
Thanks for all the info...I got sidetracked by holidays and flu..William


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Jan 18, 2006)

Now you can build a T12 miniturbo by buying Cabela's XPG 12V flashlight and adding an XPG miniturbo head. Plastic lens, like the G&P and LEDWave. Want glass and a positive clickie? Get a Digilight.


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## FirstDsent (Jan 20, 2006)

> Wquiles:
> Would it be too much to ask for a simple table that lists which models are compatible with what?





> Paul in Maryland:
> That's a great idea, Will. and I'm definitely the man to create it! I'll try to do it this weekend (in a separately titled thread under Incandescents). If I don't come through, send me a PM weekly till I do! What we're talking about is a table that sorts out the quality levels and compatibility (part by part) of Surefire-compatible (T and X series) lineups from G&P, LEDWave, Digilight USA, Camillus, and any other brand we can think of.



Paul, 
I looked, but did not see said posting. Did you ever get around to it? I'd love to see something like this. I'm definitely interesting in a Frankenstein light. -Best components from every Mfgr.

Thanks,
Bernie


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Jan 21, 2006)

(sigh) No, I never did. Does CPF have any built-in code for creating a table? I hate to fool with raw HTML.


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## innerlight (Jan 21, 2006)

Hi Paul

How about an excel sheet hosted with a link
Or make a sheet and email it on request?

Anything I can do?


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Jan 21, 2006)

Good idea. I've begun an Excel spreadsheet and have made significant progress. There are so many variables that I'm using separate worksheets to list whole lights, lamp assemblies, and heads. I can convert it to HTML when I'm finished and post it directly here--in a sticky, I hope. Feel free to send me a PM next weekend if I haven't posted it.


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## innerlight (Feb 27, 2006)

Hey Paul,

I wanted to clarify if the X-12 head will fit on my wolfeyes 9AX Raider body?
I recently tried the new wolfeyes 300 lumens bulb but found it lacking for my needs, so the search goes on.......


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 27, 2006)

innerlight said:


> Hey Paul,
> 
> I wanted to clarify if the X-12 head will fit on my wolfeyes 9AX Raider body?


No. No G&P/Digilight head will fit any Wolf Eyes body, and vice versa.



innerlight said:


> I recently tried the new wolfeyes 300 lumens bulb but found it lacking for my needs.......


Interesting. Can you tell us why? Was it the wrong beam width? Or did you discover, against hope, that you can't power it from R123A cells?

Keep in mind that Pila's new GL4 uses a 48mm head. Its 250- and 500-luen lamp assemblies won't fit a Wolf Eyes head. But their new 200-lumen GL3 lamp assembly will fit the 45mm Wolf Eyes / old Pila GL3X and GL4 45mm head.


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## innerlight (Feb 27, 2006)

Damn

Yes the beam was too wide. I am looking for the tighest, brightest beam possible. I did a mini-review under the DEALER SECTION, where we were both talking to Mike Seward. It is a really good lamp with lots of lumens that I started 40 times over the weekend on rcr123's and no instaflashing.


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## innerlight (Feb 27, 2006)

HEY

Isn't the rx-12v a digilight? What am I missing?


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 27, 2006)

rx-12V? If you mean X-12, the X-12 is G&P's miniturbo version of G&P's T12.


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## innerlight (Feb 27, 2006)

This is what I meant:
http://digilightusa.com/catalog/product-detail.asp?pid=48


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 27, 2006)

OK. I thought you meant the G&P X-12. It uses the same head size and threads as the Digilight.


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## innerlight (Feb 27, 2006)

So that head in the link should fit right?


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 27, 2006)

innerlight said:


> So that head in the link should fit right?


The head in your link and my link will fit bodies from Digilight, G&P, LEDWave, and Camillus. It won't fit Wolf Eyes.


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## innerlight (Feb 27, 2006)

10-4
Thanks again


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## Phaserburn (Feb 27, 2006)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Good idea. I've begun an Excel spreadsheet and have made significant progress. There are so many variables that I'm using separate worksheets to list whole lights, lamp assemblies, and heads. I can convert it to HTML when I'm finished and post it directly here--in a sticky, I hope. Feel free to send me a PM next weekend if I haven't posted it.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 27, 2006)

Sorry about that. I've begun it but dropped it. If you want to see where it stands, PM me your email address and I'll send you the Excel file.


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## innerlight (Feb 28, 2006)

I hope I'm not beating a dead horse here but:

I was considering a switch from my wolfeyes body to a digilight t-9 with the x-12 turbo head, but I was told by digilight customer service that the x-12 was not compatable with the t-9 body? Huh? Does that make sense or did I get the wrong info from them?

If that is the case, then does anybody know where I can get the 12V bulb with the wider reflector that they use in the X-12 head, without having to buy the head itself?

Thanks in advance,

Innerlight


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 28, 2006)

innerlight said:


> I was told by digilight customer service that the x-12 was not compatable with the t-9 body? Huh? Does that make sense or did I get the wrong info from them?


I think that whoever told you this is quoting out-of-date facts. Originally, the X-12 turbohead and T12 body were incompatible with their 6V and 9V counterparts. But the 12V parts were redesigned months ago to share the threads and diameter of the rest of the lineup. The last incompatible 12V head was sold at least five months ago.



innerlight said:


> If that is the case, then does anybody know where I can get the 12V bulb with the wider reflector that they use in the X-12 head, without having to buy the head itself?


Neither Digilight nor its dealer network has the 12V lamp assembly without the head. But as I've written above, it shouldn't matter anymore; get the 12V range extender head. If you don't know which "facts" to trust, buy the 9V range extender head and a 12V small lamp assembly; then unscrew the 12V lamp from the small reflector and use it in the large one.[/QUOTE]


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## innerlight (Mar 1, 2006)

Paul,

I wrote to digilight again and got a reply from Jeff. You were absolutely right. The heads and bodies are now interchangable.

You should consider a career as a service rep.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Mar 1, 2006)

Well, I may have dropped the ball on the compatibility table, but another CPFer and I are working to make it part of the CPF Wiki, where everyone can add to it. And I'm planning to start a sticky Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) thread for Surefire P compatibility so I can spend less time answering PMs and repackaging the same responses in these threads!


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## Phaserburn (Mar 16, 2006)

About that table...

The reason I ask is that it's the kind of thing I selfishly need to understand the bigger 9V picture with available options...


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Mar 16, 2006)

Unfortunately, the Excel table couldn't be converted into the proper HTML code (or whatever WIKI uses). Each cell must be pasted in by hand.


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## tankahn (Mar 17, 2006)

Converting from Excel to HTML can be a pain.

Perhaps this site provides the solution we are looking for

http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ExcelToHTMLPlugin



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Unfortunately, the Excel table couldn't be converted into the proper HTML code (or whatever WIKI uses). Each cell must be pasted in by hand.


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## Action (Apr 25, 2006)

Well, I just tried running the G&P X-12 head on one of TranquilityBase's 3 x 18650 tubes. With 3 Pila 600P batteries, with a total voltage of 12.5V, it hot flashed the lamp immediately. At 12.5V, not all of my batteries were even fully charged. I believe that its safe to say that the 12V setup cannot effectively be run from any of the Pila setups when approaching anything close to a full charge. I may be tempted to use my Shultze charger to get to 12.00V and see if it still flashes, when I get some more bulbs.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 25, 2006)

I wonder when G&P's 14V lamp assembly will be available. I found it on one Asian site and posted the link, but I can't recall where I saw it or posted it. It appears that Wolf Eyes will beat G&P, with its announced 13V lamp assembly.


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## Action (Apr 25, 2006)

A nice 14V lamp assembly would be fantastic. That should do the trick for 3 protected rechargeables of decent capacity. Could you post more info when you find it to this thread?


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## brunt_sp (Jul 9, 2006)

Interesting thread. I like the look of the mini turbohead and would like to fit it on my SF 9P. Am I right in thinking it will not accept the p91 LA or any G&P incandescent lamp in the region of 200 lumens ? Finally would the tailcap from the X9 fit my 9P and is it a clickie ?


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## Paladin (Jul 9, 2006)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Neither Digilight nor its dealer network has the 12V lamp assembly without the head. But as I've written above, it shouldn't matter anymore; get the 12V range extender head. If you don't know which "facts" to trust, buy the 9V range extender head and a 12V small lamp assembly; then unscrew the 12V lamp from the small reflector and use it in the large one.


[/QUOTE]

FYI my recently purchased Digilight 12VHP lamp does NOT screw into the RX-12V reflector. The bulb itself is just a hair to large to fit the current hole. Even if it did fit, the springs are considerably shorter on the standard lamps compared to the RX-12V. HTH.

Paladin


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