# Cree Q5 bins...already? Can anyone be sure?



## wintermute (Jul 9, 2007)

Update: 7/12/07 - Cutter posts pics of his Cree XR-E Q5 bin reel. More info at bottom of this thread - or check the pic here. Good news for those who have ordered from Cutter, and we can only hope that other sellers offering the Q5 bins offer pictures of their own bin labels to dispel rumors.

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June 27th - Cree announces a breakthrough. 100-Lumen XLamp LEDs Available in Volume Quantities. This is merely 12 days ago. 

The next day, in a article from LEDs Magazine, Mark McClear, Cree's director of business development, says, "the Q5 bin (minimum flux of 107 lm) is not available in volume, but will be soon, as further improvements are made to the XR-E." He further goes on to state that R2 bins will be released before the end of the year...so let's say November-December.

Cree's roadmap even indicates that the Q5 won't come until Q3 2007:







So, here we are...9 days into _Q3 2007_ - and we have people claiming to sell Q5s. Not just groupbuys in the marketplace, but Mark at Cutter, and even DealExtreme. 

Why would Cree release the Q5s so close on the heels of the Q4s? Why would they say Q3 2007 if they were going to come out in 10 days? :thinking: Mark @ Cutter started the Q5 sales thread on July 5th, 8 days after Cree releases the Q4 in volumes. Then today, 12 days later, DX is offering Q5s for $10 shipped. 

Has anyone seen proof that the Q5s are even released? Since they are not marked like the old Luxeon stars, we have no clue what they are selling us - do we follow blindly and accept it on fact? At least when Cutter offered the Q4s in the marketplace, he had part numbers (XREWHT-L1-WC-Q4-0-01 500 pcs + XREWHT-L1-WH-Q4-0-01 500 pcs)...pictures of the bin label on the spool would have been even better. 

Anyone else? Does anyone have industry access to people at Cree who can verify if the Q5 has even been released? It would just seem if they release the Q4 at the end of June and are shooting for the end of the year for the R2 bin, that the release of the Q5 bin would be somewhere in the middle...not 8 days after Cree releases the Q4. I hope someone can prove me wrong - but I hope that we aren't being taken for a ride. :shakehead


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## EricMack (Jul 9, 2007)

The Q5's seem to be upon us awful quickly. US sources say they have not been produced yet. :thinking: The price at a certain source that quotes them as available seems to be awful darn good. :green: Things don't seem to add up quite right, but its darn near impossible to point the finger and say "Aha!" With no markings on the packaging, let alone the emitters/stars themselves, it would seem to be a "trust me" proposition. :shrug:

Pretty sure I will not be buying Q5's unless the vendor can provide evidence that I am getting what was promised.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 9, 2007)

I appreciate your skepticism - and I only wish more people would adopt it when it comes to unverified dealer/manufacturer claims. What are asking for is not at all unreasonable (although I doubt it will be provided)

However, based on my experience to date, I doubt Kyle would be out to deliberately mislead us (of course, he could easily be being mislead by his suppliers). No real way to know at this point.

There was a lot healthy skepticism about DX's SWO U-bin SSC emitters when they first came out - given the lack Vf-bin data. A few members made comments about never buying these, not knowing what you are getting, etc. I bought a number to test, and they all had the U-bin SWO characteristics with apparently quite variable Vfs, as you would expect (as evidenced by widely different runtimes in identical direct-drive lights I moded with them).

So, I just ordered one of these supposed Q5s to test out. If I don't get the % output increase I expect to see compared to one of my confirmed P4 lights, then I'll post my results here. For the price, I think it's worth a flyer to see what we are dealing with. Caveat emptor, as always ...


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## twentysixtwo (Jul 9, 2007)

Can't wait to hear what the real output and tint are on these...


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## mossyoak (Jul 9, 2007)

the cutting edge is confusing...


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## LEDcandle (Jul 10, 2007)

I say just wait for the R2s or even R4s straight instead of jumping into the Q-series if you are already using Cree P4s or SSC P4s. A jump of 20 lumens is hardly noticeable and the Qs aren't exactly cheap from what I've seen; $14-22. What's more, if you are unlucky, you might get a low flux-bin Q vs. a good P4 and not notice anything!

Unless you really love modding and keeping up with the latest, wait out awhile to get a really worthy upgrade; similar to the previous jumping from Luxeon to Cree (so-called 'double' brightness or efficiency) for $7-8! Jumping from P4 to the Q-series for $20 (+ mod costs if you are not a DIYer) isn't really worth it, IMHO. 

Reminds me of the days when people were upgrading their T-bin luxeons to U-bins


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## tspoon (Jul 10, 2007)

I only just installed some Q4's on my bike so I think I'll wait


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## 2xTrinity (Jul 10, 2007)

LEDcandle said:


> I say just wait for the R2s or even R4s straight instead of jumping into the Q-series if you are already using Cree P4s or SSC P4s. A jump of 20 lumens is hardly noticeable and the Qs aren't exactly cheap from what I've seen; $14-22. What's more, if you are unlucky, you might get a low flux-bin Q vs. a good P4 and not notice anything!
> 
> Unless you really love modding and keeping up with the latest, wait out awhile to get a really worthy upgrade; similar to the previous jumping from Luxeon to Cree (so-called 'double' brightness or efficiency) for $7-8! Jumping from P4 to the Q-series for $20 (+ mod costs if you are not a DIYer) isn't really worth it, IMHO.
> 
> Reminds me of the days when people were upgrading their T-bin luxeons to U-bins


My big thing is that if I can get a light in a Q4 or Q5 that also happens to have a better tint (WH, or to a lesser extent WG) I will upgrade -- in most cases, the improvement in tint would most likely be more noticeable than the boost in brightness anyway.


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## DMC (Jul 10, 2007)

Here is the link to the Q5 WG stars at ExtremeDeal that Wintermute mentioned at the start of this thread:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394

So far, I can only find on the web the Q5 WG bin.


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## wintermute (Jul 10, 2007)

DMC said:


> Here is the link to the Q5 WG stars at ExtremeDeal that Wintermute mentioned at the start of this thread:
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/xxx
> 
> So far, I can only find on the web the Q5 WG bin.


Hey DMC - how many places are you going to post the same information??

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2074904&postcount=5

I already put in the first post that DX was selling them - you posting it here wasn't necessary. It's not hard to find the Q5 stars at DX.


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## DMC (Jul 10, 2007)

I noticed early this morning that you were the first to post that DealExtreme had Q5s. So, I was editing my postings to acknowledge your earlier posting and give credit where credit it due.

So why did Cree announce on June 27 the Q4 bins and then make a Q5 bin available to resellers two weeks later?


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## wintermute (Jul 10, 2007)

DMC said:


> I noticed early this morning that you were the first to post that DealExtreme had Q5s. So, I was editing my postings to acknowledge your earlier posting and give credit where credit it due.
> 
> So why did Cree announce on June 27 the Q4 bins and then make a Q5 bin available to resellers two weeks later?



Gotcha - all good.

Look at this post from WeLight (aka Mark from Cutter):



WeLight said:


> I am of the view that the deal from DX says something about all his Cree product, we have the only bin of Q5 released, we have never sold any to DX and if we did it would be at a min twice his advertised price
> 
> Cheers
> WeLight



Interesting to say the least. Cutter is an authorized Cree distributor and usually one of the first to get the Cree LEDs. Not even LED Lighting Supply, a U.S. distributor of Crees, can get any Q5s yet - and they are a distributor. It will be interesting to see how this one pans out.


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## ace0001a (Jul 10, 2007)

Well skepticism aside, I too wouldn't believe Kyle would purposely mislead his customers. It would be more likely that he's being mislead by his suppliers if that's going to be the case. With that said, it's cheap enough to take get some and try them out in my opinion...


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## wintermute (Jul 10, 2007)

I do know a couple of people who have ordered from both Cutter and DX, who are planning to do comparisons once they arrive...stay tuned. I'm still just surprised that Cree would release the Q5 so soon after the Q4's press release.


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## mds82 (Jul 10, 2007)

According to LED Lighting Supply, CREE has NOT released any of the Q5's just yet and that most likely Cutter is just pre-ordering the Q5's at this time.


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## wintermute (Jul 12, 2007)

Cutter has the Q5 bin reel. He has proof in a pic here. I hope the other sellers offering Q5s do the same and offer pics of their bin label. Only time will tell, but Cutter indicates that his reel is the first 1000 Q5's released from Cree specifically for selling to members on CPF (his words, not mine). Check the pic, see for yourself.


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## kakster (Jul 12, 2007)

So he's posted a picture of the Q5s. What's to say that those are the LEDs he's actually shipping to people?


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## gerry45 (Jul 12, 2007)

We should have an answer in several days. Just received a shipped confirmation from DX.

I am just asking myself a question: Why does an Australian electronic store (Cutter) should be the only one to receive the first batch of Q5? 

Asian are producing more electronic high tech toys than anybody else.


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## wintermute (Jul 12, 2007)

gerry45 said:


> We should have an answer in several days. Just received a shipped confirmation from DX.
> 
> I am just asking myself a question: Why does an Australian electronic store (Cutter) should be the only one to receive the first batch of Q5?
> 
> Asian are producing more electronic high tech toys than anybody else.



Maybe because Cutter is one of the few authorized distributors of Cree LEDs. Regardless, a few members here have Q5s coming from both Cutter and DX and will compare the performance of both once they arrive.


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## Randy Shackleford (Jul 12, 2007)

How much of coincidence that DX has the same bin, Q5 WG?:huh:


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## mmmflashlights (Jul 13, 2007)

Randy Shackleford said:


> How much of coincidence that DX has the same bin, Q5 WG?:huh:


 
I'm fairly certain that it has said WG since they posted them on their site about 3 days ago, and I know it listed WG before the above photo was posted. I'm not sure if you were pointing out the coincidence because of the recent photo from Cutter, or just a general observation.


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## gerry45 (Jul 13, 2007)

wintermute said:


> Maybe because Cutter is one of the few authorized distributors of Cree LEDs.



Didn"t know that.

Thanks!


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## DMC (Jul 13, 2007)

I contacted Cree about the Q5s at DX for $10.50 and received a reply from Peter Walker who runs the XLamp channels at Cree. He said that Cree has shipped a few reels of Q5 brightness into the market, however DX is not authorized to resale XLamp products or make any representations to that effect. 






BTW, Cutter Electronics is a Cree authorized distributor for XLamp LEDs http://www.cree.com/products/XLamp_distributors/lightleds_dist_Australia.htm


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## mmmflashlights (Jul 13, 2007)

DMC said:


> I contacted Cree about the Q5s at DX for $10.50 and received a reply from Peter Walker who runs the XLamp channels at Cree. He said that Cree has shipped a few reels of Q5 brightness into the market, however DX is not authorized to resale XLamp products or make any representations to that effect.


 
They've been selling other Cree LEDs for some time now, so whether or not they're 'authorized' to sell them doesn't put the Q5's in any more doubt to me. Within a few days, the performance comparisons will be made though so if there's clear differences we'll know pretty soon.


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## 2xTrinity (Jul 13, 2007)

Randy Shackleford said:


> How much of coincidence that DX has the same bin, Q5 WG?:huh:


I believe the coincidence has to do with the fact that all the Q5s that have been made so far were likely from the same batch off of the assembly line -- meaning they are all very likely to not only have similar flux, but also similar color.

The way that binning usually works is that the manufacturer such as Cree will always try to make the best LEDs they can. However, due to random variations in the manufacturing process, some end up brighter than others, some end up slighly different colors from one another. After they are produced, samples of each batch is tested, then sorted into bins accordingly.


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## 4sevens (Jul 13, 2007)

I purchased about 100pcs from cutter and they are for real.















Oops I see the link now. Once I get my grubby hands on them
I'm going to do some comparison tests with the q2's as
well as send them to chevrofreak for some runtime testing


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## barkingmad (Jul 13, 2007)

mmmflashlights said:


> They've been selling other Cree LEDs for some time now, so whether or not they're 'authorized' to sell them doesn't put the Q5's in any more doubt to me. Within a few days, the performance comparisons will be made though so if there's clear differences we'll know pretty soon.


 
I suspect DX are not buying them direct from Cree - but from a distributor - but does that really matter? What matters is if they are the same thing!


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## LEDcandle (Jul 13, 2007)

DMC said:


> I contacted Cree about the Q5s at DX for $10.50 and received a reply from Peter Walker who runs the XLamp channels at Cree. He said that Cree has shipped a few reels of Q5 brightness into the market, however DX is not authorized to resale XLamp products or make any representations to that effect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If they are genuine Cress and they start selling for $22 after your mail, you're gonna subsidise my reel :laughing:


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## light_emitting_dude (Jul 13, 2007)

Bring on the "R" bins!

:wow:


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## easilyled (Jul 13, 2007)

kakster said:


> So he's posted a picture of the Q5s. What's to say that those are the LEDs he's actually shipping to people?



Exactly my thoughts.

wintermute, I thought you were supposed to be healthily cynical.
Now it appears that you are just gullible instead. What a let down!

I think you should insist that the manufacturers engrave the bin on the glass
dome just to be certain and then we'll have to verify the script once they're received.


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## wintermute (Jul 13, 2007)

kakster said:


> So he's posted a picture of the Q5s. What's to say that those are the LEDs he's actually shipping to people?



Well, we could question that from every seller we deal with, even those in the marketplace. It requires some measure of trust at this point. I think the fact that Cutter has shown a pic of the bin label on the reel at least can comfort us somewhat that the Q5's have been received so soon after the release of the Q4s, which was surprising. I ordered WC tint Q4's from Cutter a few weeks ago, and when I received them I was very pleased. I can say for certain that they are WC tint - and much brighter then a friend's Q2 in the same light. So, I can reasonably assume that they are indeed WC tint Q4s. I haven't heard many people complain that the products they received from Cutter were not what they were supposed to be (although I have heard people complain that they are too expensive!). 

Cutter is one of the few worldwide official distributors of Cree LEDs, and if they were shipping out the wrong product they could lose their distributor rights. Soon enough people on this board will be able to test the WG Q5's from Cutter with good measuring equipment and determine if they perform up to spec. 



easilyled said:


> Exactly my thoughts.
> 
> wintermute, I thought you were supposed to be healthily cynical.
> Now it appears that you are just gullible instead. What a let down!



I can't see how it is gullible. The basis behind this thread was whether or not any Q5's had been officially released by Cree. The picture of the bin label proves that at least 1000 of these Q5 emitters are in the hands of Cutter. Considering that Cutter stopped selling the WC tint Q4s so quickly would make is seem that they want to provide the correct part (although I know of a couple people who ordered WC tint and got WH tint, but I think the overall number of incorrect products received is low). It's hard to imagine that Cutter would risk it's Cree distribution rights by sending out the wrong thing to someone. Someone who does not have authorized distributor rights would have nothing to lose by selling mislabeled bins.



barkingmad said:


> I suspect DX are not buying them direct from Cree - but from a distributor - but does that really matter? What matters is if they are the same thing!



This could be argued except that DX indicated that they were receiving the Q5 bin Cree's "from the factory directly". It would seem that only an authorized distributor could order them directly from the factory, and anyone else stocking them would have to go through a distributor, so I'm not sure how this is going to work out. That is why a picture of the bin label from DX would at least prove they have the stock of Cree bins to ship. Cree LEDs come in rolls of 250, 500, and 1000 I believe, so at some point they must be able to take a picture of the bin label, as Cutter did, to show they at least have the Q5 Crees stocked.



easilyled said:


> I think you should insist that the manufacturers engrave the bin on the glass dome just to be certain and then we'll have to verify the script once they're received.



Well, maybe not on the glass dome since it would cause artifacts in the beam - but I don't understand why Cree can't stamp the bin code on the metal ring around the glass dome emitter. It seems like a perfect spot for a bin code, and it would set the Crees further ahead of the other companies by allowing us to know for certain what we are receiving. It would also enable Cree to more aptly monitor their own distributors to make sure everything is on the up and up.


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## easilyled (Jul 13, 2007)

wintermute, relax I was just having some fun about the suggestion of
inscribing the bin on the glass dome.

Surely you didn't think I was being serious?

I'm trying to illustrate that pictures of reels and everything else is a bit
pointless.

You will no doubt be testing DX's Q5s against Cutters at some point.

If not you, then someone else.

You can't have it both ways - if you're showing trust in Cutters' photo
then you're giving them the benefit of the doubt because, who knows, 
after all they may have copied the photograph or photoshopped it or
anything.

So give DX the benefit of the doubt too, cease all this futile speculation
and wait until people have had a chance to actually do some tests.

I have to say that I found your triumphant exclamations at seeing 
Cutter's photograph somewhat childish.


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## twentysixtwo (Jul 13, 2007)

bummer, backordered now at dx


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## bfg9000 (Jul 13, 2007)

We've always had to trust the distributor on this because even though it is standard practice to laser etch numbers on SMD components too small to see without a magnifier, emitters have always inexplicably had no markings.

LOL when someone was selling iPhones in the marketplace, someone here asked them to include a sign with "CPF" in a photo. Didn't guarantee they would send the iPhone, but at least showed they actually had them.


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## wintermute (Jul 13, 2007)

bfg9000 said:


> LOL when someone was selling iPhones in the marketplace, someone here asked them to include a sign with "CPF" in a photo. Didn't guarantee they would send the iPhone, but at least showed they actually had them.



Guess that's still better then offering a stock picture and writing CPF in Paint...with really bad writing, the kind you do with a mouse. Fact is, with these emitters - a bin label is at least one indication that the seller has it available to them.


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## kakster (Jul 13, 2007)

wintermute said:


> Guess that's still better then offering a stock picture and writing CPF in Paint...with really bad writing, the kind you do with a mouse. Fact is, with these emitters - a bin label is at least one indication that the seller has it available to them.



Nope, just means he has a picture of them, anything further than that is pure speculation and/or assumption on your part.

I'm not saying Cutter don't have them, id be suprised if they didnt. But extrapolating this fact to mean that everyone else's are fake is a hell of a leap.


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## wintermute (Jul 13, 2007)

kakster said:


> Nope, just means he has a picture of them, anything further than that is pure speculation and/or assumption on your part.
> 
> I'm not saying Cutter don't have them, id be suprised if they didnt. But extrapolating this fact to mean that everyone else's are fake is a hell of a leap.



Did you read what I actually wrote. I said, "Fact is, with these emitters - *a bin label is at least one indication that the seller has it available to them*." I said nothing about other sellers in the part which you quoted - so don't twist my words to your own liking.

As I have said before, this thread started out of a curiosity as to if Q5's were available to *anyone*. It's obvious that Cutter has them...and that's all I can say. I am not extrapolating that fact to anything else, certainly not to the fact that everyone else's is a fake. But with lack of proof from other sellers - we should be cautious as to what we believe we are getting.


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## bfg9000 (Jul 14, 2007)

Well Kyle promised the pic of the reel label will be uploaded to the product page _this weekend_ and "Fernando" at DX said "Vincent" will also post the picture here.

Before anyone asks them to put a scrap of paper with "CPF" in the picture, understand that the only people who saw if the emitters came off of said reel was their supplier that put the emitters onto the stars.


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## LukeA (Jul 14, 2007)

bfg9000 said:


> Well Kyle promised the pic of the reel label will be uploaded to the product page _this weekend_ and "Fernando" at DX said "Vincent" will also post the picture here.
> 
> Before anyone asks them to put a scrap of paper with "CPF" in the picture, understand that the only people who saw if the emitters came off of said reel was their supplier that put the emitters onto the stars.



Someone from DX needs to take a trip to the star factory.


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## kakster (Jul 14, 2007)

wintermute said:


> Did you read what I actually wrote. I said, "Fact is, with these emitters - *a bin label is at least one indication that the seller has it available to them*." I said nothing about other sellers in the part which you quoted - so don't twist my words to your own liking.
> 
> As I have said before, this thread started out of a curiosity as to if Q5's were available to *anyone*. It's obvious that Cutter has them...and that's all I can say. I am not extrapolating that fact to anything else, certainly not to the fact that everyone else's is a fake. But with lack of proof from other sellers - we should be cautious as to what we believe we are getting.



Ummm...

I read what you wrote, i didnt mention other dealers and i didnt twist you words. Please re read carefuly.

A picture proves nothing other than the fact the dealer has a picture of the label.

Simple enough for you?

As for "other dealers" it's you that brought up DX, right at the start of this thread, and in other threads. You've called them frauds and claimed they're selling lesser bins as Q5s, and you have done so without providing a shred of evidence or proof.

And where did this hot-off-the-press "information" come from? Did it come from a rival dealer who sells similar products? From "inside sources direct from Hong Kong"?

Your story sounds very similar to what i was also told by a very reputable CPF dealer. The difference is, although i trust the guy, he did not provide any evidence, and that for me places it firmly in the realm of *rumour*, and not something suitable for posting on CPF.

It is irresponsible of you to post rumours and allow folks to assume it as fact.

And until you post some evidence or proof, you're presenting yourself as nothing more than a shill or cheerleader for these dealers.


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## filibuster (Jul 14, 2007)

With 100 lumen rebels stacking up nicely with Cree's finest, a Q5 bin on a an earlier release cycle makes perfect sense. Cree needs to keep pushing the limits of the XLamp to keep itself competitive and not give buyers reason to look elsewhere. Depending on that competition with the rebel we can expect to see more of the same in regards to a quicker movement up the Flux Bin chart. Isn't competition wonderful!


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## 4sevens (Jul 14, 2007)

My cutter Q5's came in today (thanks to USPS who works on saturdays).
I quickly slapped it into a P2D CE. Preliminary comparisions show they are
visibly brighter than my Q2's on all levels. I haven't sat down and taken
lux readings. It's bright-er


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## smokelaw1 (Aug 23, 2007)

light_emitting_dude said:


> Bring on the "R" bins!
> 
> :wow:


 

Yup. Quad R2 = 1003 lumens at the emitter at 1A, if my math is right.


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## crislight01 (Aug 26, 2007)

where can you buy Q5(emitter alone)?


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## grnamin (Aug 26, 2007)

crislight01 said:


> where can you buy Q5(emitter alone)?


 
I got mine from Cutter.


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## Yenster (Sep 18, 2007)

*Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*

I just replaced the Q2 emitter with a Q5 from DX and the light is visibly dimmer. It doesn't even seem as bright as some P4s that I have. I swapped it back out again with the Q2 and the light is now back to its origial brightness. I now have my doubts about these Q5s from DX. I ordered 3 of these and they all seem to be the same. Either these are not really Q5s or they must require a higher front voltage to drive them. Hmmm....

Anyone else have impressions of Q5s from DX?


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## KrisP (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*

I have a Q5 emitter from Cutter and the Vf is 3.55v @ 350mA which seems very high in comparison to a Seoul P4 that is 3.2v @ 350mA. At 3.55v the Seoul draws 670mA so a much brighter output from the same battery voltage.


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## Yenster (Sep 18, 2007)

Thanks KrisP. Have you had any luck finding a driver (or modding one) to get good results from your Q5? I wasn't expecting to change out the circuits in order to use these Q5s.


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## 1 what (Sep 18, 2007)

I have some Q5's from Cutter and DX have dispatched 2 more (on stars) on 17 Sept.
I'll tell you what I think when I get the DX delivery.


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## Yenster (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*

I just reached 1012 mA by direct driving with an 18650 battery. That battery measured 4.12 Volts right after I measured that current. It seems that might be the eaiest way to reach 1A, just take out the driver circuit.


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## merlocka (Sep 22, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*

I just received a Q5 star from DX. My intended target was to replace the emitter on a REXLIGHT V2.1, which although has a great UI, was never as bright as my DEXLIGHT X.1. 

I didn't take any lux readings, but after carefully removal and replacement of the Q5 onto my REX, the REX remained dimmer that the DEX, possibly even dimmer than it was with the original emitter.

So, my unscientific data is telling me that the DX "Q5" just ain't so.



Yenster said:


> I just replaced the Q2 emitter with a Q5 from DX and the light is visibly dimmer. It doesn't even seem as bright as some P4s that I have. I swapped it back out again with the Q2 and the light is now back to its origial brightness. I now have my doubts about these Q5s from DX. I ordered 3 of these and they all seem to be the same. Either these are not really Q5s or they must require a higher front voltage to drive them. Hmmm....
> 
> Anyone else have impressions of Q5s from DX?


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## Nake (Sep 22, 2007)

Today I changed out the P4 in my Eastward YJ U2 Style to a DX Q5. With the P4 lux was 10100, with the Q5 it went up to 12300. A satisfactory improvement.


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## ensile (Sep 22, 2007)

can anyone tell me, that with the q5 having a greater forward voltage value than the previous versions, does that mean, lights that would not access modes because of current being too high (certain Li-po's, ion's etc), now will have modes available to them ?


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## Nake (Sep 22, 2007)

ensile said:


> can anyone tell me, that with the q5 having a greater forward voltage value than the previous versions, does that mean, lights that would not access modes because of current being too high (certain Li-po's, ion's etc), now will have modes available to them ?


 
Well I just went and checked my P2D with a R123. It has a Q5 WG from Endeavour's GB. Standard mode showed 5200 lux for L & M and 5400 for H. Turbo showed 10300 lux. :thinking:


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## nanotech17 (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*



merlocka said:


> I just received a Q5 star from DX. My intended target was to replace the emitter on a REXLIGHT V2.1, which although has a great UI, was never as bright as my DEXLIGHT X.1.
> 
> I didn't take any lux readings, but after carefully removal and replacement of the Q5 onto my REX, the REX remained dimmer that the DEX, possibly even dimmer than it was with the original emitter.
> 
> So, my unscientific data is telling me that the DX "Q5" just ain't so.



I think you have a got a problem with the Rexlight 2.1 driver.


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## nanotech17 (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*



Yenster said:


> I just reached 1012 mA by direct driving with an 18650 battery. That battery measured 4.12 Volts right after I measured that current. It seems that might be the eaiest way to reach 1A, just take out the driver circuit.



i agree 110%


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## BobbyRS (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*



nanotech17 said:


> I think you have a got a problem with the Rexlight 2.1 driver.


 
I believe it has to do with the Rexlight step-up circuit. It uses a 1 AA step-up circuit, a Q4 and Q5 requires a higher operational voltage. Merlocka: what cell are you using; 1 AA or a 14500? If you are using a AA then there may not be any more brightness. Most likely much dimmer. On a 14500 cell, you should get much more brightness.


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## merlocka (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*



BobbyRS said:


> I believe it has to do with the Rexlight step-up circuit. It uses a 1 AA step-up circuit, a Q4 and Q5 requires a higher operational voltage. Merlocka: what cell are you using; 1 AA or a 14500? If you are using a AA then there may not be any more brightness. Most likely much dimmer. On a 14500 cell, you should get much more brightness.



Freshly charged AW 14500.


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## m1999 (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*



BobbyRS said:


> I believe it has to do with the Rexlight step-up circuit. It uses a 1 AA step-up circuit, a Q4 and Q5 requires a higher operational voltage. Merlocka: what cell are you using; 1 AA or a 14500? If you are using a AA then there may not be any more brightness. Most likely much dimmer. On a 14500 cell, you should get much more brightness.


 
There is no information about higher operational voltage for Q5 in Cree XLamp XR-E Datasheet (at Cree website). Where did you find this information?


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## BobbyRS (Sep 24, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*



m1999 said:


> There is no information about higher operational voltage for Q5 in Cree XLamp XR-E Datasheet (at Cree website). Where did you find this information?


 
You won't find it from Cree because it has to do with the step-up circuit that the Rexlight uses. A Q4 and Q5 in the Rexlight requires a higher operational voltage for its 1 AA step-up circuit. 
(i.e. 3.55V+, compared to a Q2 that requires ~3.3V)

A Q4 and Q5 in the Rexlight should have a greater output on a 14500 cell, but weaker output on a AA cell. 

This is the main reason for the Q2 in the new build and not a Q4/Q5.

Great read that may help:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1657466&postcount=1

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1657466&postcount=1

http://dmcleish.com/CPF/PDF/FluxMeasures-7-7-27.pdf

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/169547


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## bspofford (Sep 28, 2007)

wintermute said:


> Maybe because Cutter is one of the few authorized distributors of Cree LEDs. Regardless, a few members here have Q5s coming from both Cutter and DX and will compare the performance of both once they arrive.


 
I bought three of the "Q5" CREE emitters on "Premium Star" boards from Kai and three from DX. I don't have a Cutter Q5 for comparison, but the Kai/DX products are noticeably LESS BRIGHT than the original P4 with a similar tint when tested in an Eastward YJ "U2 Style" light supposedly running at 1200 mA. Nothing on the star boards or emitter indicates that these are Q5 emitters, and I have to conclude that they are not. I put the original P4 star board back in the light because it was brighter.


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## balazer (Sep 28, 2007)

bspofford said:


> ...Nothing on the star boards or emitter indicates that these are Q5 emitters, and I have to conclude that they are not.


You really can't make that conclusion unless you have a way to factor out potential differences in LED Vf. Hook the LEDs up to a current regulated power supply, and then compare.


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## jake25 (Sep 28, 2007)

i got a Q5 from cutter, put it in my EastwardYJ and the WC is much brighter


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## Curious_character (Sep 29, 2007)

I finally received today some Q5 emitters on stars which I'd ordered from DX on August 9. I just compared one to a P4 bin, both mounted on a large heat sink. The DX Q5 put out 23.3% more light at 100 mA, rising to 28.5% at 1A. The forward voltage of the DX Q5 is just about 0.3 volt higher than the P4 over the 100 mA - 1A current range. Although I didn't measure them, some Q5 emitters I got from a group buy also evidently have a higher Vf, since a Fenix P3D CE runs for a shorter time with a 17670 before flickering since I changed its emitter to a Q5.

c_c


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## Yenster (Oct 1, 2007)

bspofford,

I had the same thing happen to me, but now I know more about the Q5. It requires a higher front voltage to drive it properly so what you're seeing the dimmer light resulting from less current. If you have a multi-meter, you can measure this yourself and see what I'm talking about. The solution, specifically for the Eastward YJ "U2 Style" light, is the get into the driver and short out the resistor at "R1". That will bring up the current from around 400mA to around 700 mA. You will probably to very happy with this mode. However, if not, then go to the next level and direct drive the Q5 by moving "LED -" to "J1". This will result in around 950mA and you're bound to be happy with that brightness. Let us know how it goes.

I'm also seeing that some of these lights don't come as described, i.e. 1200mA. Mine was only pulling around 440mA while others claim theirs pulled 1200mA, maybe some variations with the driver, or maybe some drivers were defective and were actually direct driving. I see a pattern where the 1200mA ones see good results with their Q5 mod, and the 440mA ones didn't. So the above mod is for the 440mA lilghts, probably like yours.


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## f22shift (Oct 1, 2007)

is it mounted on a white star or black in dx pictures?


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## Yenster (Oct 1, 2007)

My Q5s from DX were on black stars, just like their pictures.


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## balazer (Oct 1, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*



Yenster said:


> I just reached 1012 mA by direct driving with an 18650 battery. That battery measured 4.12 Volts right after I measured that current. It seems that might be the eaiest way to reach 1A, just take out the driver circuit.


A battery will measure 4.1-4.2 V when fully charged, but it spends much more of the discharge cycle at 3.7-3.6 V, or less under load. If I remember correctly, the EastwardYJ U2-style light has a boost circuit. Removing the circuit might make the light brighter on a fresh battery, but dimmer otherwise.


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## f22shift (Oct 1, 2007)

Yenster said:


> My Q5s from DX were on black stars, just like their pictures.


kd has them in white in their pics. i received white


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## Yenster (Oct 1, 2007)

f22shift said:


> kd has them in white in their pics. i received white


Who knows which is which


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## Yenster (Oct 1, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*



balazer said:


> A battery will measure 4.1-4.2 V when fully charged, but it spends much more of the discharge cycle at 3.7-3.6 V, or less under load. If I remember correctly, the EastwardYJ U2-style light has a boost circuit. Removing the circuit might make the light brighter on a fresh battery, but dimmer otherwise.


The problem is that the driver/boost doesn't work well with the Q5s, so even at 3.7-3.6V, the Q5s are brighter without the circuit.


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## balazer (Oct 1, 2007)

*Re: Q5 from DX is visibly dimmer than Q2*



Yenster said:


> The problem is that the driver/boost doesn't work well with the Q5s, so even at 3.7-3.6V, the Q5s are brighter without the circuit.


Then it's probably even brighter without the Q5.


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## kanarie (Oct 1, 2007)

I have got a few Q5 's from a group buy (cutter) The performance in my LOD-CE was not better or even worse than the original P4 bin Cree


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## Yenster (Oct 1, 2007)

*Cree Q5 bins dimmer that P4...sometimes.*

Yeah, some people are finding that their P4 lights were brighter than after a Q5 upgrade. It seems it depends on how the LED is driven and powered so that the higher front voltage needs are met.


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## Optik49 (Oct 3, 2007)

What dealer has the best prices and service for REXLIGHT(S)?


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