# Surefire ? Ultrafire ? Fenix ? Etc...



## jamdel (Jul 23, 2007)

Hi to all. I have just pickedup this hobby. Just have a few questions...

1. Which brand is real ? Surefire, Ultrafire and Fenix ?
2. Do they copy from each other ?
3. Is CREE the brightest we can have ?
4. Some lights can put either 2 x CR123A Rechargeable 3.6v/3.7v batteries or 1 x Ultrafire 18650 3.7v 2400mAh battery. Does that mean that the 1 x 2400mAh battery is brighter?
 
Thanks.


----------



## WildChild (Jul 23, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that by Surefire you mean Superfire... Right? Because Surefire is different to the two others, and Fenix is clearly the winner compared to Superfire and Ultrafire!


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Jul 23, 2007)

And if you do mean Surefire............Surefire takes top for build quality, warranty, customer support, and overall better product than the above mentioned.


----------



## sysadmn (Jul 23, 2007)

jamdel said:


> Hi to all. I have just pickedup this hobby. Just have a few questions...
> 
> 1. Which brand is real ? Surefire, Ultrafire and Fenix ?
> 2. Do they copy from each other ?
> ...


 
1. Not sure what you mean by "real". Surefire makes high quality lights in America. Superfire and Ultrafire make good quality lights; some of the lights are visually similar to Surefires' lights, and can interchange lamp assemblies. Superfire and Ultrafire also make many lights that have no Surefire (or Fenix!) equivalent. They offer enough innovative, quality products that I do not consider them a clone shop. 

2. Surefire and to a lesser extent Fenix change their product lines slowly - a new model is a major event around here. Ultrafire (and probably Superfire, I don't follow them) are continually updating product, using a sort of lego approach - plastic lens goes to glass, plastic reflector goes to aluminum, higher quality (bin) led is used, better driver module, new finish, etc. It seems to me that UF has a new tweak every month, and a new product (change in body style, more expensive components, less expensive light) almost as often.

3. CREE is currently the brightest LED I know of; they're also the most efficient, so they (and Seoul Semiconductor, SSC) are preferred. (well, strictly speaking, individual samples of other LEDS overdriven might be brighter, while they last :laughing Don't ask that question around the incandescent (hotwire) crowd. Their fun begins where ours ends; it just doesn't last as long 

4. There are LED brightness differences due to input voltage and current. However, the measure you gave (mAH) is current x time, and represents battery capacity. So a driver that pulls 1A will run less than 2.2 hours from a 2200 mAH battery (due to losses in the circuit). Search here or at flashlight reviews (http://www.flashlightreviews.com/features/runcomp.htm) for runtime plots. Usually the higher voltage is brighter, but the higher capacity lasts longer.


----------



## carrot (Jul 23, 2007)

sysadmn, you are mistaken about Fenix. While they have never used plastic lenses and only dabbled in plastic reflectors for a short period of time they have been continually updating their products. One only need compare the early L1P's vs. the later model ones, the original L2T's vs. the ones currently being sold, and the original P1's vs. the P1-CE's. That's not to say the older ones are supremely inferior, but Fenix is also constantly tweaking. Their hard anodize has gotten markedly better over time since their original release of the L1P.

Anyhow, to me, Surefire and Fenix are real. They are true innovators, and Superfire, Ultrafire, G&P and a few others, are largely clones that borrow ideas from the other two. Sometimes they may have their own "innovations" but they have been shown inferior to SF and Fenix, in circuitry, if not overall. The reason that UF products have never been released to much fanfare is because they are regarded by the general CPF populace as a "clone" manufacturer that doesn't have anything new or interesting to bring to the table. Perhaps I am wrong on my assessment, but this is what I perceive to be the case.


----------



## sysadmn (Jul 23, 2007)

carrot -
I don't think we disagree, but I was probably not precise. I said Fenix changes it model lines slowly - I meant, as I said in the next phrase, they don't create new models very often. They do make running upgrades, and they have started the "CE" cree editions, but go back and look at the hoopla around the P2D and P3D. Sure, they're great lights, but a new Fenix is an event because, well, it's new. The flip side of the running changes is that when you're buying a used Fenix, you have to ask which one you're getting, if it matters to you. (Also true of the low-end Chinese manufacturers).

I do disagree that Ultrafire is uninteresting. For the price, they're a great value. They're cheap enough that you can "buy both!" in true CPF tradition, and they make fringe models (2x18650, the WF-500) that are not available or much more expensive elsewhere. They also offer more "versatile" lights, such as those that have extenders, wider internal diameters (2x16340, 1x17670 or 1x18650, etc.) Several of the models make good mod hosts, although with their release in CREE and SSC models remove my main reason for modding them.

I'd be interested in hearing where you think Wolf Eyes falls - seems they're pretty close to Surefire in quality, but at a lower price. They also offer innovations that Surefire has not - 18mm body tubes, Li-ion, LED drop-ins.

Regards, 
sysadmn


----------



## carrot (Jul 23, 2007)

Wolf-Eyes and Pila, to me, are much in line with Surefire, imho, in terms of quality, except without the insane premium prices. There's only one thing I fault them for, and that is that their lights are too damn big to be easily pocketable. I would like to see them release something to compete with the Surefire E-series. It's one reason why I do not own any currently, despite having played with a few and being very impressed with the build quality and functionality. Their LED tailcaps are a bit gimmicky, but work as advertised.

To my understanding, WE and Pila were once one, and split on some disagreements? I don't remember where I got that from.

Well, admittedly I am borderline interested in the 4xCR123A Ultrafire, as it seems like the only option for a relatively compact 12-volt light.


----------



## jumpstat (Jul 23, 2007)

Welcome jamdel!....From your 1st post, it seems that you are a newbie and still have along way to go.....Do a search, look around the forums. There are a lot of information all categorised in specific sections.

Have fun and keep your wallet away!!


----------



## ZMZ67 (Jul 24, 2007)

Agree with carrot, Surefire and Fenix are the real thing.Surefire has a huge reputation for quality lights especially for law enforcement and the military,they tend to be expensive though.Fenix is relatively new but also has a big following on this forum at least.Fenix products are more general use but still original designs.I believe both manufacturers have produced landmark lights which set standards for the industry.Ultrafire seems to copy to some extent and I don't think thier quality/performance is in the same league as Surefire and Fenix.There are some other brands available that offer good lights, Lumipower and INOVA come to mind ,but you should hang around a while to find out the positives and negatives of lights and brands.Also be aware that advances in technology are coming fast and today's great light may be eclipsed by another light that is even better in the span of only a few months.I try not to get caught up in the hype and instead I buy quality lights in a price range I can afford not just the latest and brightest.


----------



## lightr07 (Jul 24, 2007)

SureFire - Good quality lights, Top notch build quality and unmatched Customer support and replacement if something goes wrong, Nearly unbreakable, Good for most to all situations (If you have the correct lights from them) a little bit more expensive but they don't cut corners and sure don't cut corners when something breaks. (PK seems like a good guy too, The only guy who is in a big flashlight company that comes on the forums every now and then) 

Inova - Good for those who want something for in the car, Bright usually heavyer and design's aren't real "stunning"

Fenix - Good "overall" use light, Made in china, Low price also good to "play-around-with" Quality depends on owhich one you get.

Mag - Old, Slow, they don't want to get off the rear and redesign good quality, it took them YEARS to actually bring out a LED light and when they did, It was a Normal Mag with a LED module slapped in it. Built pretty tough they do show wear though as there only HA-II compared to HA-III of SF. Good for a cheap light to let people borrow. 

SuperFire and UltraFire - They just copy SureFire and fenix and a few others. Sometimes you can get a good light but its a clone most of the time. And if you find that its more expensive than the original, Just skip it.

---

Cree - Is a type of LED that is brighter, More engery efficent and in some cases smaller than previous generations of LED's. I'm still reading on on Cree's as when i left CPF in January 2007 there wasn't much talk of Cree and now that i've joined its "Cree! Cree! Cree!" Still have to pickup a cree light to play with.


----------



## chakrawal (Jul 25, 2007)

> SureFire - Good quality lights, Top notch build quality and unmatched Customer support and replacement if something goes wrong, Nearly unbreakable, Good for most to all situations (If you have the correct lights from them) a little bit more expensive but they don't cut corners and sure don't cut corners when something breaks. (PK seems like a good guy too, The only guy who is in a big flashlight company that comes on the forums every now and then)
> 
> Inova - Good for those who want something for in the car, Bright usually heavyer and design's aren't real "stunning"
> 
> ...


I agree with lightr07. Surefire have a very good customer support.
Fenix also a very good light but cheaper.


----------



## TORCH_BOY (Jul 25, 2007)

Welcome, Surefire if you have lots of $$ to spend, Fenix if you want a versatile light for a good price


----------



## LukeA (Jul 25, 2007)

Stick around and wait for the Rebel craze to heat up. The Luxeon Rebel is the newest emitter from Lumileds. It's up there with the Cree R2 bin in terms of efficency, costs less than half as much as the R2 will cost when it's available and has a package 1/4 the size of the Cree.


----------



## BillBond (Jul 28, 2007)

DaFABRICATA said:


> And if you do mean Surefire............Surefire takes top for build quality, warranty, customer support, and overall better product than the above mentioned.




I agree with you on everthing. except there customer support can be very slow. 
In particular when I try and get them to replace broken pocket clips.

But I still will buy nothing but Surefire.


----------



## FlashKat (Jul 28, 2007)

Surefire has been around for decades and is one of the original manufacturers to produce high end flashlights that many are now trying to follow their standards.


----------



## ddgarcia05 (Jul 28, 2007)

jamdel said:


> 3. Is CREE the brightest we can have ?


 

I'm kinda knew to the whole flashlight craze, but I think Fenix is relasing a line of P3D's with a Rebel LED. What Rebel LED means, I have no idea.


----------



## BSCOTT1504 (Jul 28, 2007)

Welcome to CPF!! You can't go wrong with Surefire or Fenix!! :thumbsup:


----------



## fieldops (Jul 28, 2007)

Welcome aboard CPF!! Hold onto your wallet.

Surefire really is a top notch brand. They are expensive, but you can't go wrong owning one.

Fenix has really come along way. Their secret to success is how fast they put user feedback into new model lights and get them to market. It's fascinating to watch.

Ultrafire and Superfire are clone types, but they have had some quite interesting models recently. 

I'm just glad that we all have as many choices in the torch world as we do today. Again, welcome to the forum!!


----------



## vic2367 (Jul 30, 2007)

welcome aboard,,,


----------



## vic2367 (Jul 30, 2007)

by the way,,,both surefire and fenix are real...really good


----------

