# Convoy Lights: Option Comparison Tables and Images



## Phlogiston (Sep 29, 2015)

*Introduction*

I wanted to specify a Convoy S2+ Red with an XML2 T4-7A to produce roughly the same lumens in each mode as a T6-3B 7135*3 version I already had. Whilst crunching my way through the Cree Product Characterization Tool, it occurred to me that other people here might find a set of comparison tables and tint images useful. You'll find the tables at the end of this post, after the examples. The images are in post 7. 

I consider the Convoy S2+ to be a very nice light. If you'd like to know more, *Chicken Drumstick* has reviewed the T6-3B 7135*8 version here, and *maukka* has posted a comprehensive instrumental analysis of his T6-3B 7135*8 sample here, including spectrophotometric data and graphs. You can also find a description of how my T4-7A 7135*4 sample behaves when the cell runs low in post 26. 

*Applicability* 

*Warning:* You use the information in this post at your own risk. I have only used it in conjunction with the Convoy S2+ Red. 

However, it should apply in full to the following Convoy lights: S2 Grey; S2+ Black; S2+ Grey; S2+ Red; S2+ Blue; S2+ Green; S3 Black; S3 Grey; S4 Black; S5 Black; S6 Black; and S8 Black. 

In addition, some of it should apply to: BD01 Black (7135*8 driver only); BD02 Black (7135*6 driver only); BD03 Black (7135*4 driver only); C8 Black (7135*8 driver only); C8 Grey (7135*8 driver only); M1 Black (7135*6 or 7135*8 drivers only); M2 Black (7135*6 or 7135*8 drivers only); and S2+ Grey 18350/16340 version (7135*3 or 7135*4 drivers only, see also post 13). 

*Option Availability*

Most intermediary dealers only sell a small subset of the possible combinations of Convoy options. 

The easiest way to be sure that you have access to the full range of Convoy lights and accessories, including all of the customisation options, is to buy from the original manufacturer's AliExpress store. 

Search Google for "shenzhen convoy electronics" and it should be the first link; double-check for the store number in the link, which should be 330416. 

*Update:* You can find my thoughts on some of the Convoy accessories in post 12. 

*Convoy LED Tints*


LEDColour TemperatureDescriptionXML2 U2-1A6500-7000KCool WhiteXML2 T6-3B5000-5200KNeutral WhiteXML2 T6-4C4300-4500KNeutral-Warm WhiteXML2 T5-5B4000-4200KWarm WhiteXML2 T4-7A3000-3200KVery Warm White
You can find comparison photos of the different tints lighting a garden environment by looking up the Convoy S2+ Red page on the original manufacturer's AliExpress store (see previous section). The tint photos are near the bottom of that page. 

*Update:* I have added a set of tint comparison photos to post 7. 

*Examples* 

I wanted a couple of Convoy S2+ Reds to act as backup lights to my two Fenix UC35s, so I wanted their medium modes to have lumen outputs broadly corresponding to the UC35's 180lm medium mode. I also decided to get neutral white LEDs, just because I could (the UC35 is cool white). 

_*Example 1:* Check the Mid / Medium Mode / 40% table, run along the T6-3B row, closest match is 160 lm in the 7135*3 driver column. Check the Hi / High Mode / 100% table; that combination gives 370 lm. Check the Lo / Low Mode / 5% table; that combination gives 21 lm. 

The end result: 

Convoy S2+ Red
XML2 T6-3B LED
7135*3 driver21 lm-----160 lm370 lm-----Fenix UC3515 lm50 lm180 lm480 lm960 lm
_I later needed a desk lamp in a place where it was awkward to run a mains cable, so I pulled out one of my new neutral white S2+ Reds and mounted it with a Rofis AR01 mount. 

The 160lm mode was the perfect brightness, but the neutral white tint clashed with the much warmer-tinted room lighting. I also tried the UC35 to confirm that it was the tint that was bothering me, and yes, the UC35 was even more of a clash. 

OK, I thought, I'll buy another S2+ Red, but in a very warm white with the medium mode again at about 180lm. Checking the box for the room light - an 18W Philips Master LED bulb - yielded a colour temperature of 2700K. The closest Convoy LED option is the XML2 T4-7A at 3000-3200K. 

_*Example 2:* Check the Mid / Medium Mode / 40% table, run along the XML2 T4-7A row, and there's a perfect match at 180 lm in the 7135*4 driver column. Check the Hi / High Mode / 100% table; that combination gives 400 lm. Check the Lo / Low Mode / 5% table; that combination gives 23 lm. 

The end result: 

Convoy S2+ Red
XML2 T4-7A LED
7135*4 driver23 lm-----180 lm400 lm-----Convoy S2+ Red
XML2 T6-3B LED
7135*3 driver21 lm-----160 lm370 lm-----Fenix UC3515 lm50 lm180 lm480 lm960 lm
_My new very warm white S2+ Red works wonderfully as a battery-operated desk lamp :thumbsup: 


*Comparison Tables* 

It looks like Convoy specs use LED lumens, so I've discounted the LED lumen figures from Cree by an arbitrary 20% for optical losses and rounded the numbers to 2 significant figures. Cree LED lumens are in normal type, my discounted & rounded lumens are in italics. 

Whilst using the Characterization Tool, I left the LED junction temperature at the default 25°C. Where driver currents fall awkwardly between current steps in the Characterization Tool, I have estimated an interpolated number to 2 significant figures. 

*Hi / High Mode / 100%* 


*Driver**LED Bin*7135*3
_1050mA / 1050mA_7135*4
_1400mA / 1400mA_7135*6
_2100mA / 2100mA_7135*8
_2800mA / 2800mA_XML2 U2-1A
_6500-7000K_489.4 lm
_390 lm_623.8 lm
_500 lm_860.6 lm
_690 lm_1067.3 lm
_850 lm_XML2 T6-3B
_5000-5200K_456.8 lm
_370 lm_582.3 lm
_470 lm_803.2 lm
_640 lm_996.1 lm
_800 lm_XML2 T6-4C
_4300-4500K_456.8 lm
_370 lm_582.3 lm
_470 lm_803.2 lm
_640 lm_996.1 lm
_800 lm_XML2 T5-5B
_4000-4200K_424.1 lm
_340 lm_540.7 lm
_430 lm_745.9 lm
_600 lm_925 lm
_740 lm_XML2 T4-7A
_3000-3200K_391.5 lm
_310 lm_499.1 lm
_400 lm_688.5 lm
_550 lm_853.8 lm
_680 lm_

*Mid / Medium Mode / 40%* 


*Driver**LED Bin*7135*3
_420mA / 1050mA_7135*4
_560mA / 1400mA_7135*6
_840mA / 2100mA_7135*8
_1120mA / 2800mA_XML2 U2-1A
_6500-7000K_212.7 lm
_170 lm_278.4 lm
_220 lm_~400 lm
_320 lm_~520 lm
_420 lm_XML2 T6-3B
_5000-5200K_198.5 lm
_160 lm_259.9 lm
_210 lm_~380 lm
_300 lm_~490 lm
_390 lm_XML2 T6-4C
_4300-4500K_198.5 lm
_160 lm_259.9 lm
_210 lm_~380 lm
_300 lm_~490 lm
_390 lm_XML2 T5-5B
_4000-4200K_184.3 lm
_150 lm_241.3 lm
_190 lm_~350 lm
_280 lm_~450 lm
_360 lm_XML2 T4-7A
_3000-3200K_170.1 lm
_140 lm_222.8 lm
_180 lm_~320 lm
_260 lm_~420 lm
_340 lm_

*Lo / Low Mode / 5%*

Unfortunately, the Characterization Tool doesn't go this low, so these are all estimated to 2 significant figures by dividing the lumen figures for higher currents. Given that LEDs are more efficient at lower currents, these estimates are likely to be slightly too low; as a ballpark indication, by up to 5%. 


*Driver**LED Bin*7135*3
_52.5mA / 1050mA_7135*4
_70mA / 1400mA_7135*6
_105mA / 2100mA_7135*8
_140mA / 2800mA_XML2 U2-1A
_6500-7000K_~28 lm
_22 lm_~36 lm
_29 lm_~55 lm
_44 lm_~72 lm
_58 lm_XML2 T6-3B
_5000-5200K_~26 lm
_21 lm_~34 lm
_27 lm_~51 lm
_41 lm_~67 lm
_54 lm_XML2 T6-4C
_4300-4500K_~26 lm
_21 lm_~34 lm
_27 lm_~51 lm
_41 lm_~67 lm
_54 lm_XML2 T5-5B
_4000-4200K_~24 lm
_19 lm_~31 lm
_25 lm_~47 lm
_38 lm_~63 lm
_50 lm_XML2 T4-7A
_3000-3200K_~22 lm
_18 lm_~29 lm
_23 lm_~44 lm
_35 lm_~58 lm
_46 lm_

Finally, you can get custom mode groups that include Mid / Medium Mode / 30% or Lo / Low Mode / 10% levels, so here are a couple of tables for those. 

*Mid / Medium Mode / 30%* 


*Driver**LED Bin*7135*3
_315mA / 1050mA_7135*4
_420mA / 1400mA_7135*6
_630mA / 2100mA_7135*8
_840mA / 2800mA_XML2 U2-1A
_6500-7000K_~160 lm
_130 lm_212.7 lm
_170 lm_310.4 lm
_250 lm_~400 lm
_320 lm_XML2 T6-3B
_5000-5200K_~150 lm
_120 lm_198.5 lm
_160 lm_289.7 lm
_230 lm_~380 lm
_300 lm_XML2 T6-4C
_4300-4500K_~150 lm
_120 lm_198.5 lm
_160 lm_289.7 lm
_230 lm_~380 lm
_300 lm_XML2 T5-5B
_4000-4200K_~140 lm
_110 lm_184.3 lm
_150 lm_269 lm
_220 lm_~350 lm
_280 lm_XML2 T4-7A
_3000-3200K_~130 lm
_100 lm_170.1 lm
_140 lm_248.3 lm
_200 lm_~320 lm
_260 lm_

*Lo / Low Mode / 10%*

Unfortunately, the Characterization Tool doesn't cover the lower currents, so those are estimated to 2 significant figures by dividing the lumen figures for higher currents. Given that LEDs are more efficient at lower currents, these estimates are likely to be slightly too low; as a ballpark indication, by up to 5%. 


*Driver**LED Bin*7135*3
_105mA / 1050mA_7135*4
_140mA / 1400mA_7135*6
_210mA / 2100mA_7135*8
_280mA / 2800mA_XML2 U2-1A
_6500-7000K_~55 lm
_44 lm_~72 lm
_58 lm_109 lm
_87 lm_144.2 lm
_115 lm_XML2 T6-3B
_5000-5200K_~51 lm
_41 lm_~67 lm
_54 lm_101.7 lm
_81 lm_134.6 lm
_108 lm_XML2 T6-4C
_4300-4500K_~51 lm
_41 lm_~67 lm
_54 lm_101.7 lm
_81 lm_134.6 lm
_108 lm_XML2 T5-5B
_4000-4200K_~47 lm
_38 lm_~63 lm
_50 lm_94.4 lm
_76 lm_125 lm
_100 lm_XML2 T4-7A
_3000-3200K_~44 lm
_35 lm_~58 lm
_46 lm_87.2 lm
_70 lm_115.4 lm
_92 lm_


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## Grijon (Oct 8, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*

This, sir, is spectacular! Thank you!!


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## D6859 (Oct 8, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*

Great job, thank you!

I wish I had seen your table a week ago when I ordered my Convoy S2+ XML2 T6-3B 7135*3. I would have considered warmer tint and another driver. But on the other hand 370 lm output makes and excellent EDC that you can borrow to a non-flashaholic friend.


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## KeepingItLight (Oct 8, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*

When I first learned about the options available for Convoy flashlights, I thought 8*7135, at 2.8A, was the way to go. I am now aware that those lights overheat within minutes. My current thinking is that 3*7135 or 4*7135 is more practical. 

In addition to generating less heat on high, your lower modes are better than you get with 8*7135.


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## Phlogiston (Oct 8, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*

You are all very welcome. I really appreciate knowing that you consider it useful  



D6859 said:


> But on the other hand 370 lm output makes and excellent EDC that you can borrow to a non-flashaholic friend.



I feel the same way. I never let non-flashaholics borrow a powerful light unless it has an automatic stepdown or temperature regulation. In my view, 1A (300 - 400lm depending on the LED bin) is about the maximum one can get away with for continuous operation in an 18650 light. My Fenix UC35 is relatively good at dissipating heat because of the extra metal to accommodate its USB charger, but even that light steps down from 480lm to 180lm after 30 minutes. 

If the light is going to be tailstanding or clip mounted for a long period, I'll set it to a lower level still, since there's no "cardiovascular cooling system"  as there would be in hand-held operation. I'm fine with that, though, because 150 - 200lm is usually quite good for things like spotlighting a work surface or tailstanding to light a room during a power cut. 



KeepingItLight said:


> When I first learned about the options available for Convoy flashlights, I thought 8*7135, at 2.8A, was the way to go. I am now aware that those lights overheat within minutes. My current thinking is that 3*7135 or 4*7135 is more practical.
> 
> In addition to generating less heat on high, your lower modes are better than you get with 8*7135.



I do like that aspect. The 10 - 30lm range works well for me as a general-purpose level for short distance work, and the 18650 cell provides an amazing runtime under those circumstances.


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## D6859 (Oct 8, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*



KeepingItLight said:


> In addition to generating less heat on high, your lower modes are better than you get with 8*7135.



Exactly my thoughs when I was conforting myself after loosing the extra lumens  I'm getting more excited about the light. I hope it is delivered to me next week.


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## Phlogiston (Oct 9, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*

I decided to add some tint comparison images to this thread, but preferred not to make the first post any larger than it already is, so I've put them here instead. 

First, a nice side-by-side comparison of Convoy LED tints. This image originally came from a Russian message board; I have cropped and rehosted it to meet CPF requirements. Unfortunately, I don't read Russian, so I can't attribute it to its original creator. 







Second, a set of images showing the effect of each Convoy LED tint in a garden setting at night. These are from the Convoy S2+ Red sales page on AliExpress; they are copyright to Shenzhen Convoy Electronics Co., Ltd. Again, I have resized and rehosted them to meet CPF requirements. 


























These images were all rehosted using PostImage.


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## Grijon (Oct 10, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*

Wow, I LOVE it!! STELLAR combo: first post of information and then the pics!


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## D6859 (Oct 10, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*

3B doesn't look so bad after all


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## ven (Oct 10, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*

Awesome thread,thank you!!


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## Phlogiston (Oct 11, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*



D6859 said:


> 3B doesn't look so bad after all



One of of my lights has exactly the same configuration, and I liked it enough to order another (now in transit), so I'm hoping that you'll enjoy yours too  



Grijon said:


> Wow, I LOVE it!! STELLAR combo: first post of information and then the pics!





ven said:


> Awesome thread,thank you!!



:thumbsup:


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## Phlogiston (Oct 11, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*

The first post now includes a list of other Convoy lights it should be useful for. 

I've also bought and received some of the Convoy accessories, so here are my thoughts on those: 

*Lanyard* 

The S2+ Red comes with a nice black wrist lanyard as standard, and you can order more of them as accessories in black, army green or neon green. 

The lanyard has a mini quick-release buckle with a thin cord for small lanyard holes. The thick cord of the lanyard proper is attached to the buckle with a lobster-claw clip, which can also attach directly to larger lanyard holes. 

I normally attach lobster-claw clips directly to my lights when possible, because I don't trust the knot that keeps the small cord secured to the buckle. If I had to use a small-cord attachment, I'd definitely superglue the knot inside the buckle so it couldn't unravel under any circumstances. It's good that Convoy give you both options. 

The lanyard proper isn't paracord as such, but it's more than up to the task. It also has a cord lock to keep it snug around the wrist, along with a gathering bead to keep the rest of the lanyard neatly together. 

Ever since I got my first Sunwayman light, which came with a really nice lanyard, I've been trying to find a source of more for my other lights and multitools. Sunwayman don't sell theirs separately, but the Convoy ones are very close. I plan to order a whole pile of them now  

I do have very slim wrists, though, so there's a chance that those of you with thicker wrists will find the lanyard to be a little short. 

*Pocket Clip* 

The S2+ Red does not include a pocket clip as standard, but you can get them separately. The clip is attached to the lanyard holes with two sets of tiny nuts and bolts. 

When I first saw that, I honestly thought the nuts and bolts would slip through the lanyard holes, they were that small! Fortunately, I tried it anyway and the clip does seem to stay put, so that was a relief. 

If forced to choose between a lanyard and a clip, I normally take the lanyard. That way, I can loop the light to my belt and make sure it won't get lost the way it would if a clip slid off my belt or pocket. 

I'm glad to say that although the Convoy clip does take up the lanyard holes, it has a cutout in it which I find perfectly serviceable as a lanyard attachment point, so I can still have both. This is a good thing, because the pocket clip isn't particularly tight - it's designed to slide on and off your clothes without damaging them. 

*White Diffuser* 

Convoy diffusers are all lantern-style. They look like baby traffic wands with the purpose of scattering light as nearly omnidirectionally as possible. They're available in white, yellow or red. The white ones I have work well, _in their intended role as lanterns_, although you do have to jam them on quite hard to make sure they stay put. 

Unfortunately, lantern diffusers produce a distracting glare at the edge of your vision if you try to hold the light in your hand as a diffuse source for walking. Convoy don't offer the flat forward-only diffusers that would work better for that task. 

However, I have discovered that Nitecore's 23mm NFD23 diffuser can be modified to fit the Convoy S2+ head (which is 24mm). If you run your finger round the inside of the black part of the NFD23, you'll feel six friction ribs running from front to back. Cut those out with a scalpel so the inside is more or less smooth, and the diffuser will fit securely on the S2+. 

Of course, it won't fit a 23mm light anymore, but I can live with that  

Nitecore also sell 23mm filters in red, green and blue. I don't own any of those, but I presume that this trick would work on them too.

*Update:* I've now noticed that a Fenix AOD-S lantern-style diffuser fits rather neatly on my Convoy S2+, because it has stepwise securing ribs on the inner surface to fit more than one diameter of light. Nice if you want the option of swapping one diffuser between your 25.4mm Fenix and 24mm Convoy lights. 

By eyeball, I find that the Convoy and Fenix diffusers transmit "about the same" amount of light, but they have different light distributions. The Convoy one seems to spread the light around more evenly, with a relatively small amount of extra brightness in the forward direction. On the other hand, the Fenix one sends a bit more light in the forward direction, and a bit less to the sides. 

Taking a power cut as an example, if you hung an S2+ pointing downwards from the ceiling, the Convoy diffuser would be good for lighting up the whole room as evenly as possible. The Fenix diffuser would be good at making a brighter area to work on something directly beneath, with the rest of the room having less light, but still plenty to navigate by. The flat Nitecore diffuser would create a wider, somewhat brighter working area directly beneath, but at the cost of leaving the corners of the room with only a moonlight level of illumination. 

*Red Diffuser* 

The red diffuser has exactly the same shape and fit as the white one (the picture on the AliExpress page must be old). It really is a baby traffic wand and does its job just as you'd expect. 

One thing to be aware of is that it only transmits a fraction of the light that the white diffuser does. That's exactly what you'd expect, given that it only transmits red wavelengths, rather than the full spectrum of a white diffuser, but it still caught me by surprise until I realised why I was only getting less than a third of the light


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## Phlogiston (Oct 16, 2015)

For those of you who like 18350 lights, there's a new arrival at Convoy. You can now buy 18350 battery tubes as an accessory for the Convoy S2+ Red and S2+ Blue. The only snag is that you have to buy them in lots of two, not singly, but they're cheap enough for that not to bother me. 

I haven't seen an 18350 turnkey package, like the S2+ Grey 18350 / 16340 version which is already available, but I imagine there's still a possibility for that to happen at a later date. 

Two things to be aware of, especially if you don't already own an S2+: 


CR123A and LiFePO4​ cells are unlikely to work well, because the Convoy drivers have a low-voltage warning which is configured for 3.6V - 3.8V Li-Ion cells. As such, the 2Hz warning flash kicks in at 3V ±0.1V, at which point a CR123A / LiFePO4​ cell will still have plenty of charge left. 


If your S2+ is configured with a higher-current driver, you'll need to make sure that your 18350 / 16340 is rated for that load. This is why the S2+ Grey 18350 / 16340 turnkey package is only offered with the 7135*3 or 7135*4 drivers.


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## D6859 (Oct 16, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*



Phlogiston said:


> One of of my lights has exactly the same configuration, and I liked it enough to order another (now in transit), so I'm hoping that you'll enjoy yours too



Nice to know, thanks! I might order another one for a friend and my gf. 

Also thank you for the info about lanyard. I've been worried about loosing a light since I lost my TN12. I think I'll use mine tied around a belt loop and attach the S2+ to the mini buckle. 

_Do you know if S2+ has low voltage indicator or protection? Or is it recommended to use only protected batteries in it? _Edit: Yes it has.


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## Phlogiston (Oct 16, 2015)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*



D6859 said:


> _Do you know if S2+ has low voltage indicator or protection? Or is it recommended to use only protected batteries in it? _Edit: Yes it has.



Just to be clear, I've never actually had a Convoy light down that low. I only know about the warning flash from the Convoy sales page on AliExpress, and I don't know what happens if you leave the light on anyway (for example, if you've forgotten about it and gone somewhere else). 

I should really stick a protected cell in one of my Convoy lights, run it right down and see what happens  Been meaning to do that with my Fenix UC35, too... 



D6859 said:


> Nice to know, thanks! I might order another one for a friend and my gf.
> 
> Also thank you for the info about lanyard. I've been worried about loosing a light since I lost my TN12. I think I'll use mine tied around a belt loop and attach the S2+ to the mini buckle.



No problem, I'm glad my impressions were useful to you  I've lost and almost lost lights in the past, so I know how that feels.


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## akhyar (Oct 17, 2015)

Excellent post on the comparison table.
I think I made the right decision of sticking to 7135*3 drivers configuration for my red and blue S2+ as I have 3 others single 18650 lights that can hit 1k lumens.
I've just ordered a red and blue 18350 tubes direct from Simon as the 2 lights are mainly for my wife and she prefers the shorter dimension of the 18350 tubes


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## B0rt (Oct 17, 2015)

Contemplating to get some S2+ myself and the information you provided is awesome and very helpful to chose right.
Thanks a lot Phlogiston! :twothumbs


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## D6859 (Oct 17, 2015)

You can find a *review* of Convoy S2+ 18650 – XM-L2 T6-3B 7135*8 by Chicken Drumstick here. 

I ordered a grey version. It should have interesting looking green rubber button. Red version should have better button according to the review.


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## akhyar (Oct 17, 2015)

D6859 said:


> You can find a *review* of Convoy S2+ 18650 – XM-L2 T6-3B 7135*8 by Chicken Drumstick here.
> 
> I ordered a grey version. It should have interesting looking green rubber button. Red version should have better button according to the review.



The red and blue version are using the so called "piston" click. 
It feels nice to touch, and feels different than my other rubber clicky buttons.
There's a green S2+ version in the pipeline as well.


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## D6859 (Oct 18, 2015)

akhyar said:


> The red and blue version are using the so called "piston" click.
> It feels nice to touch, and feels different than my other rubber clicky buttons.
> There's a green S2+ version in the pipeline as well.



Do you know if there's any other differences between the different colour models than the button type?


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## Phlogiston (Oct 19, 2015)

A new Convoy S2+ tidbit: apparently, it uses 4.5kHz PWM, which is a decently high frequency that most people won't notice. That's from a BLF post by ToyKeeper, who is a well-respected firmware programmer and presumably has first hand knowledge. 



akhyar said:


> There's a green S2+ version in the pipeline as well.



Cool, I hadn't heard about that yet. Where did you find out? 



D6859 said:


> Do you know if there's any other differences between the different colour models than the button type?



As far as I know, the only difference is the metal button versus the rubber switch boot. I wouldn't mind seeing the black and grey S2+ models offered with the metal button as well. 

Note that the metal button may not be as water-resistant as the rubber switch boot (BLF post by J-Dub74). The metal cap has to slide in a tube to operate the switch, which means that there's a sliding interface where water could get through, unless there's a rubber seal underneath. In contrast, a rubber boot simply deforms without ever allowing an entry route for water. 

I'm tempted to take one of my S2+ Red tailcaps apart now, to see if there is a rubber seal under the metal cap, but it's not going to happen until my spare gets here. Any takers in the meantime?  



akhyar said:


> Excellent post on the comparison table.





B0rt said:


> Contemplating to get some S2+ myself and the information you provided is awesome and very helpful to chose right.
> Thanks a lot Phlogiston! :twothumbs



Thank you both, and everyone who's expressed support for this thread :thumbsup:


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## akhyar (Oct 20, 2015)

Phlogiston said:


> A new Convoy S2+ tidbit: apparently, it uses 4.5kHz PWM, which is a decently high frequency that most people won't notice. That's from a BLF post by ToyKeeper, who is a well-respected firmware programmer and presumably has first hand knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, I hadn't heard about that yet. Where did you find



The picture of the green S2+ is already posted at BLF


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## Phlogiston (Oct 20, 2015)

akhyar said:


> The picture of the green S2+ is already posted at BLF



Thank you - my Google-Fu was failing me. The BLF search box found it, though: 

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/42401 

In the same thread, there's also a post saying that there'll be a UV S2+ as well, and it's going to be a proper 365nm LED to boot. 

*WARNING:* If you're interested in getting a UV light, you will need to take very careful safety measures (read this and check Google as well).


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## D6859 (Oct 20, 2015)

Phlogiston said:


> Note that the metal button may not be as water-resistant as the rubber switch boot (BLF post by J-Dub74). The metal cap has to slide in a tube to operate the switch, which means that there's a sliding interface where water could get through, unless there's a rubber seal underneath. In contrast, a rubber boot simply deforms without ever allowing an entry route for water.



I thought so too. 

I got my S2+ today. Three instant notions: 1) No green rubber boot! 2) The lanyard has no buckles! 3) I don't like the blueish-grey colour. On the other hand, the light seem solid, the tint is great, it's smaller than TN12 and the output enough for most tasks. I'd say it's great for EDC! And when considering the price point... I think I have to order the red one too.


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## Phlogiston (Nov 3, 2015)

Just noticed that the new Convoy S2+ UV (ultraviolet) light has appeared on Convoy's AliExpress store. 

As previously stated, it has a 365nm LED. I found a page on the Nichia website listing various UV LEDs, and I think (but can't be certain) that this is the datasheet for the one in the Convoy light: 

http://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/products/led/NCSU276A-E.pdf 

*WARNING:* if you buy one of these, you *must* take proper UV safety precautions. Among other things:


*Keep away from children.*
Avoid direct exposure to the UV light, including reflections. This applies both to your eyes and those of other people.
UV-blocking eye protection is *mandatory* for everyone present while a UV light emitter is in use. 
Failure to take suitable safety precautions when using UV light emitters can lead to eye problems such as cataracts, retinal damage and permanent blindness. 

UV light can also cause skin cancer. Be at least as cautious about exposing your skin to it as you would be with strong sunlight. 

Please check Google for more information on UV safety.


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## Phlogiston (Dec 1, 2015)

Phlogiston said:


> I should really stick a protected cell in one of my Convoy lights, run it right down and see what happens


Finally got round to trying it with a protected NCR18650BE cell in my T4-7A (very warm white) 7135*4 S2+ Red. 

I was running it in medium mode when the low voltage warning flash started. On my sample, the flash is more like 1Hz than the rated 2Hz, but it's still a perfectly clear indication. I measured the cell voltage at 2.93V, so I'd estimate that the warning flash kicked in at about 2.9V, which matches the manufacturer's rating of 2.9V to 3.1V. I also noticed that the light stepped down from medium to low mode when it started flashing. 

I put the cell back in, and the light re-entered medium mode when I turned it back on. I immediately set it manually to low mode using the tail switch, and it ran for at least another 20 minutes before it started flashing again. At that point, the cell was hovering around 2.9V. 

I put the cell back in again, turned the light on and it immediately started flashing in low mode. I let it run for another hour, after which the cell was at 2.67V. The light was down to 5 or 10 lumens at that point, rather than the usual 20+ lumens, but still enough to find another light or carefully navigate your way out of trouble. The flashing would be annoying under those circumstances, but you could do it nonetheless. 

After a further hour, the light was still flashing at a moonlight level - useless to me, but I know many people here on CPF could still use it at that level in an emergency. The cell voltage was 2.56V at that stage. 

The light subsequently flashed for another 20 minutes, steadily dimming towards a firefly level, until the cell's protection circuit finally tripped out at what I presume to be 2.5V. 

In total, the light lasted for 2h 40m after the low voltage warning first started flashing. 

Conclusions: 


 The S2+ won't shut down prematurely and leave you in the dark. The warning flash at 2.9V will notify you well in advance that power is low, and the light will still be producing something like a firefly level of output even at 2.5V. 

Please note that this will vary wildly depending on the ambient conditions, the cell you use and even from one S2+ sample to the next. In particular, this test was conducted at room temperature. 

Low temperatures will severely reduce the cell's ability to keep the light going at low voltage. You might only get a few minutes under those circumstances. 


 If there's a risk that the light could be switched on for a long time by accident - in your backpack, for example - then I strongly recommend using a protected cell and / or locking the light out (unscrewing the tailcap by half a turn). 

Otherwise, the S2+ _will_ drain your cell completely dry. 
P.S. 

I've also updated post 12 with thoughts on more accessories I've tried with my Convoy S2+ lights.

*Update:* I've now seen the same light running at 2.4V, using a different cell whose protection circuit hadn't quite triggered yet. Even at that level, the light was still flashing very faintly.


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## Grijon (Dec 1, 2015)

Another excellent post with great information; thank you, Phlogiston!


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## KeepingItLight (Dec 2, 2015)

Agreed. Learning how a Li-ion flashlight behaves in the face of over-discharge is mandatory for me.

Frankly, I wish all Li-ion flashlights had low-voltage cutoff circuits that completely turned them off when their batteries got too low.

_Edit: _Forgot to say that I started a thread about this!

Over-discharge of Li-ion – A Request for Flashlight Reviewers


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## RetroTechie (Dec 2, 2015)

If there were 1 thing I could have different about Convoy lights (that is: sold as complete lights), it's drivers with a lower low, and a more modest medium setting as well.
For example a 1-2% low (vs. 5 or 10%) and a ~15 to 20% medium (vs. 30 or 40%). That is _especially_ true for higher-current drivers as with a %, the lower modes move up as well. A 1.0 or 1.4A driver with 1%-20%-100% modes (and no flashy modes!!) would be damn near perfect for me. And I think a whole lot of other people, too. Personally I have a strong preference for neutral or even warm white LEDs over cool white, but that's easy to do if host, driver, and LED boards are sold separately.

Great to hear that red S2+ can be used with 18350's, too. Nice & short, and (compared with 16340) there's much better battery options in 18350 size.



akhyar said:


> There's a green S2+ version in the pipeline as well.


Nice... may I suggest gold and/or purple as next options? 

Only got a single Convoy myself so far (S2, self-assembled from host + driver + LED board), but it's one of my most lights due to its combo of replacement cost (read: not being _too_ scared to damage it or lend it to someone), built-to-taste, price/quality ratio and performance. Recommended this brand several times already to newbies on this forum.


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## Phlogiston (Dec 2, 2015)

Grijon said:


> Another excellent post with great information; thank you, Phlogiston!





KeepingItLight said:


> Agreed.



Thank you  



KeepingItLight said:


> Learning how a Li-ion flashlight behaves in the face of over-discharge is mandatory for me.
> 
> Frankly, I wish all Li-ion flashlights had low-voltage cutoff circuits that completely turned them off when their batteries got too low.



If a light had a built-in low voltage cutoff, I'd want it to be set to a very low level: 2.6V, for example, to allow a tolerance band above the 2.5V minimum that seems to have become a de-facto standard among new Li-Ion cells lately. 

That would give me the option of running a cell right down in an emergency, if I had no other choice. I find myself imagining a nightmare scenario where I'm changing over to my last backup light or spare cell, drop it and can't find it again, so I have to carry on with whatever a near-depleted cell can give me. 

I like the way the S2+ handles a low voltage condition by giving the user plenty of warning, in a way which is annoying and persistent, but doesn't render the light totally unusable. It's also compatible with protected cells, unlike some other lights, so you effectively get the choice of whether to add a low voltage cutoff or not. 

On a related note, I consider it a significant design defect when a light can't use protected cells. Even lumen blasters should be able to run on protected cells, if only in lower modes. 



RetroTechie said:


> If there were 1 thing I could have different about Convoy lights (that is: sold as complete lights), it's drivers with a lower low, and a more modest medium setting as well.



It occurs to me that the Convoy driver has two mode groups, one with 3 modes and one with 5. If I were in charge at Convoy, I'd do this: 

*Group 1*: Strobe, SOS, 1Hz flash. 

*Group 2*: 1%, 5%, 15%, 40%, 100%. 

The 1% mode would be virtually useless to me, but the light has mode memory, so I'd just leave it in 5% mode every time (as I do anyway) and it wouldn't be a problem.


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## KeepingItLight (Dec 3, 2015)

Phlogiston said:


> If a light had a built-in low voltage cutoff, I'd want it to be set to a very low level: 2.6V, for example, to allow a tolerance band above the 2.5V minimum that seems to have become a de-facto standard among new Li-Ion cells lately.
> 
> That would give me the option of running a cell right down in an emergency, if I had no other choice. I find myself imagining a nightmare scenario where I'm changing over to my last backup light or spare cell, drop it and can't find it again, so I have to carry on with whatever a near-depleted cell can give me.



I have mixed feelings about this. I understand your point, though. For someone like you, who knows to toss a battery that becomes severely over-discharged, what you describe is good. The *Convoy S2+* gives you the choice to ruin a battery in an emergency.

The downside is that most purchasers of Li-ion batteries are not as careful or knowledgeable as you. More significantly, even experts make mistakes. 

One highly experienced CPF member, for instance, who proudly switched to unprotected batteries a couple of years ago, recently got into trouble. His *ZebraLight SC62w* was in a jacket pocket in the back seat of his car. The light was accidentally activated when he briefly sat on the jacket, and since he moved to the front seat, he never noticed that the light was on. He found out the next day, by which time the battery was depleted. The only thing that prevented an over-discharge was the low-voltage cutoff circuit built into the SC62w. It turned off his flashlight for him. If he had been using a light that did not have a cutoff, he surely would have over-discharged his unprotected cell.

Now multiply by 2 billion people in the developed countries of the world. Lots of them own Li-ion flashlights. Lots of them will have similar accidents.

How real is the hypothetical case you make out? For you, probably not very real at all. You carry backup flashlights, and perhaps batteries, as well. You would have to be in a real SHTF situation before all your light was gone. 

What about the same 2 billion people I cited earlier? For them, it's a different story. I bet there are many of them who would blithely let their battery run low when they had no backup at all! 

So, like I said, I have mixed feelings.


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## RetroTechie (Dec 3, 2015)

"Optimize for the most common case" = protect battery against dumb or careless behavior from users. Which goes nicely with "err on the safe side".

Personally I think a clear warning (flashing) -> step down to a really low mode (so light can still be used _somewhat_) -> switch off when battery is further discharged to a point where battery damage may occur.

I'd argue about what is sensible cut-off points (or how to measure state of charge). Not about whether it's sensible to have those cut-offs.


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## Danielsan (Dec 3, 2015)

I love the low voltage warning at 3.0V ! I always search fpr such lights because i can give those to my father as well and the blinking once the light hits 3.0V is perfect. We can always contruct wild emergency situations but you can always use a new battery or use a fully loaded cell every day. 2.5V would be much to low, i heard its bad for the cell when you discharge them so much.


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## Phlogiston (Dec 3, 2015)

I think we're all actually closer to agreement than it seems. I'm an engineer, safeguarding the unsuspecting user is part of the job. 

I like the way that the Convoy S2+ provides a low voltage warning at 3.0V ± 0.1V, then continues to produce usable light down to 2.5V. I handle the lack of a low voltage cutoff by using a protected cell. 

I'd be fine with a built-in low voltage cutoff as well, I just want it to be set to a very low level. I suggested 2.6V in my previous post, because most currently available protected cells seem to trip at 2.5V, which would be 2.6V ± 0.1V, allowing Convoy the same tolerance as they're already using for the existing low voltage warning. 

In common with most Li-Ion specific flashlights, the Convoy S2+ barely produces any light at 2.5V, so a low voltage cutoff at 2.6V would safeguard people using unprotected cells whilst still leaving me something like 90% of the current emergency rundown capability. That's a tradeoff I'd be happy to make. 

What I don't want is a light that triggers a low-voltage warning at 3.2V and then shuts down completely at 3.0V, for example, despite the cell still being capable of two more hours in low mode without compromising safety. 



KeepingItLight said:


> How real is the hypothetical case you make out? For you, probably not very real at all. You carry backup flashlights, and perhaps batteries, as well. You would have to be in a real SHTF situation before all your light was gone.



*I am Phlogiston, Archpriest of Murphy! Tremble before me and my Staff of Chaos!* 

Yes, that really is what I call my blind person's cane. You would not _believe_ the cascading accidents I can set in motion  

Normally, I'm kitted out for the zombie cat flu asteroid Apocalypse, but I have been known to jump into a friend's car to go for a walk somewhere on a nice summer evening with no jacket and no backpack. In that sort of scenario, I'll be carrying two lights and no spare cells. 

The first light I'll use with gay abandon until I run out of power, the second one I'll be a lot more circumspect with. So far, so good. 

Now, in the old days when I was driving, I had to change plenty of tyres at the side of the road in less than ideal conditions. Think about how often people drop their keys - or their phones - down a storm drain, then imagine that tyre change on the way back home, in the dark, with the backup light. _Plop._ Oops. 

Not desperately likely, but neither is over-discharging a Li-Ion cell (for me, at least). I consider the ability to run a cell right down to be just as valuable to me as the low-voltage cutoff would be. That's especially true when I add up all the "not desperately likely" scenarios I can think of and arrive at "actually, something like that is going to happen to me sooner or later." 

In short, emergency rundown capability and low-voltage cutoff both represent extra lines of defence against different scenarios. I just don't want to completely sacrifice one for the other. 



Danielsan said:


> 2.5V would be much to low, i heard its bad for the cell when you discharge them so much.



2.5V isn't actually that bad, as long as you recharge the cell ASAP. It will shorten the service life of the cell, though, so it wears out sooner. You can lose several normal charge-discharge cycles for every deep discharge. That's why I only do it when I have a good reason (like investigating how one of my lights handles it). 

Reputable manufacturers like Panasonic rate their cell capacities by discharging to 2.5V. They wouldn't get away with that if it weren't safe to do so, so I'm comfortable with it on that basis. 

Leaving a cell lying around for several days at 2.5V is a bad idea, however. If I ever come across one of my cells at 2.5V and I don't know how long it's been in that state, it'll be going straight to recycling.


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## Phlogiston (Dec 13, 2015)

Just noticed that the Convoy S2+ Green is now available from the manufacturer's store (Shenzhen Convoy Electronics) on AliExpress. 

There's also a new L2 variant with an XPL HI LED in it


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## Rob420 (Jan 10, 2016)

Just ordered the newest S2+ grey. 
According to Simon's note on Shenzhen Convoy Electronics "_the new version S2+ gray, the color of tailcap is black and a little change with the hole in the tail."_ 
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm273/rcheply/S2 Grey 2.jpg 
I hope to receive the much more attractive black tailcap rather then the previous florescent green. And the double hole will work perfectly with a lanyard which I prefer to use. The single hole causes the lanyard to interfere with a stable tail-stand. Subtle, but noticeable improvements.


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## Phlogiston (Jan 30, 2016)

GearBest are running a special deal on the Convoy S2+ UV light for USD $19.10. That gets it in under the customs limit for the UK (GBP £15, currently about USD $20.50) and various EU countries (up to EUR €22, currently about USD $23.50). 

Posted as a "Good Deals" thread here. 

*WARNING:* If you're interested in getting a UV light, you will need to take very careful safety measures (read this and check Google as well).


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## gyzmo2002 (Jan 30, 2016)

Phlogiston said:


> GearBest are running a special deal on the Convoy S2+ UV light for USD $19.10. That gets it in under the customs limit for the UK (GBP £15, currently about USD $20.50) and various EU countries (up to EUR €22, currently about USD $23.50).
> 
> Posted as a "Good Deals" thread here.
> 
> *WARNING:* If you're interested in getting a UV light, you will need to take very careful safety measures (read this and check Google as well).



I watched it last week but I hesitated. But at this price, I think it's a good buy. Just ordered my first Convoy. Now, I want a L6 XP-L HI. Thank you Phlogiston.🙂


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## Rob420 (Jan 30, 2016)

Phlogiston says _"__I like the way that the Convoy S2+ provides a low voltage warning at 3.0V ± 0.1V, then continues to produce usable light down to 2.5V" _Can someone tell me what that low voltage warning at 3.0V looks like. Also does the light close down below 2.5V ? I'm using hybrid Panasonic NCR18650 batteries which should be relatively safe but are unprotected. Also, does the same apply to my Convoy C8 ? Thanks in advance for any info in this regard.


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## Phlogiston (Jan 30, 2016)

Rob420 said:


> Phlogiston says _"__I like the way that the Convoy S2+ provides a low voltage warning at 3.0V ± 0.1V, then continues to produce usable light down to 2.5V" _Can someone tell me what that low voltage warning at 3.0V looks like. Also does the light close down below 2.5V ? I'm using hybrid Panasonic NCR18650 batteries which should be relatively safe but are unprotected. Also, does the same apply to my Convoy C8 ? Thanks in advance for any info in this regard.



The low voltage warning is a steady flash at 1 or 2 Hz, ie. one or two flashes every second. The light keeps doing that until you change the cell or run out of power. It also steps down to its lowest output mode. As long as you don't leave the light unattended, you can't miss it. 

I don't know what happens below 2.5V, because I used a protected cell for the test, and it tripped out at 2.5V. I wouldn't do that test with an unprotected cell, just in case I made a mistake and let it run too far. 

For safety's sake, assume that the light does not cut off at all, not even below 2.5V. 

You'll find an older post I wrote here with everything I know about the Convoy S2+ in low voltage operation. 

I don't have a Convoy C8, but any Convoy light using the same driver should have the same behaviour. There's a list of all the Convoy lights I know about with that driver in the first post of this thread (check the section marked *Applicability*), and the C8 is one of them. 



gyzmo2002 said:


> I watched it last week but I hesitated. But at this price, I think it's a good buy. Just ordered my first Convoy. Now, I want a L6 XP-L HI. Thank you Phlogiston.��



You're very welcome


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## Rob420 (Jan 30, 2016)

Phlogiston, thank you for the quick, detailed and understandable response. In combination with your previous post I now have a clear and reassuring idea how this light reacts at low voltage. I've hesitated to run the battery down to this point and topped-up between uses. Now I’m more confident in using the light to the warning. Solid and valuable info.


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## IamMatt (Jan 31, 2016)

Add my thanks, Phlogiston. I have been ramping up to buying an S2/S2+/S3 for a while but the choices are a little overwhelming. Your post makes it easy, and I will wait til Simon's store is back online and order one. Or two. And maybe one in 16340.

I also agree with your ideal modes in Post #30.


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## Phlogiston (Feb 13, 2016)

Rob420 said:


> Phlogiston, thank you for the quick, detailed and understandable response.





IamMatt said:


> Add my thanks, Phlogiston. [...] Your post makes it easy, [...]



I consider these to be very high compliments  

All of the information I've posted in this thread was information I wanted to know for myself, then posted in the hope that it would be useful to others. I very much appreciate it when you - and the others who have expressed their thanks in this thread - let me know that you've found it helpful. 

Thank you all for that :thumbsup: 



IamMatt said:


> I also agree with your ideal modes in Post #30.



Actually, thinking about that again has prompted me to notice something interesting - the BLF A6 comes quite close to the Group 2 I proposed. If you take the 30-second turbo mode to be 100% at 1350lm, you get: 


*Proposed %*1%5%15%40%100%*Proposed lm*13.567.5202.55401350*Closest BLF A6 Mode lm*11.871.0197.6450.01351

The BLF A6 mode levels are based on the 7-step mode group and this post by *ToyKeeper* on BLF. You also get a moonlight mode, an 850lm mode and some disco modes into the bargain. However, it does cost 50% more than a Convoy S2+, and it gets hot on the constant 850lm & 30-second turbo modes. 

My A6s and my custom Convoy X3 body with A6 electronics have become my most used lights these days. My stock Convoy S2+ lights, being lower powered, are reserved for use as additional worklights, or for the people around me who don't have the experience to handle hot lights.


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## CelticCross74 (Feb 13, 2016)

been following this thread. Sure the A6 is impressive with amazing output but doesnt this light get so hot on turbo that one couldnt handle it without gloves? For the rock bottom costs that Convoy is able to make their lights at couldnt they have nearly tripled the thickness of the aluminum on top of having the biggest copper heatsink that could be stuffed into the light?

I follow both forums and feel that a true forum light representative of the other major light forum(BLF)should be a close copy of the kickstarter Alpha titanium/carbon fiber light that is being built from ideas and input on CPF for way less than half the price of the Alpha. Materials would be different but the heatsinking would be insane. The Alpha being developed here on CPF has looks to have the most superior heat sinking materials and venting design I have ever seen on a 1x18650 light. A BLF version of the Alpha would run 50 bucks, be made of thick metals and have their own take on the Alphas incredible heat vents.

As for the BLF A6 Ive read to many reports of bad copies of the light to buy one. Convoy seems to have been caught off guard for the demand for the lights and seems to be making them as fast as they can at the costs of seemingly passing any defects.


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## Phlogiston (Feb 13, 2016)

CelticCross74 said:


> As for the BLF A6 Ive read to many reports of bad copies of the light to buy one. Convoy seems to have been caught off guard for the demand for the lights and seems to be making them as fast as they can at the costs of seemingly passing any defects.



I must make it clear that the *BLF A6 is not made by Convoy*. It is in fact made by Manker. 

I only intended the A6 as an example of a light that comes close to supplying the particular mode spacing that *IamMatt* and I happen to favour. Of course, bringing it up in a thread dedicated to Convoy lights left room for confusion; I apologise for that. 



CelticCross74 said:


> [...] Sure the A6 is impressive with amazing output but doesnt this light get so hot on turbo that one couldnt handle it without gloves? [...]



The A6 automatically steps down from turbo after 30 seconds, so you can feel it getting warm, but it's not on turbo long enough to get hot unless you manually step it back up again. 

The thing you do have to watch is if you're using it on the 850lm mode, which does not step down. You can only get away with 850lm for 2 or 3 minutes at 20°C ambient, then it starts to get hot and you have to step it down manually to a lower mode. 

This is basically the same caveat as any other 1x18650 tube light putting out more than about 500lm or so. It's physically impossible for a light that size to dissipate that much heat, because it's simply too small to have the surface area it needs to do it.


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## CaptBW (Feb 17, 2016)

Phlogiston,
Thank you for the wisdom and experience that you impart on these forums. I am a novice. After reading your posts I feel I have taken your advanced class.


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## Phlogiston (Feb 20, 2016)

CaptBW said:


> Phlogiston,
> Thank you for the wisdom and experience that you impart on these forums. I am a novice. After reading your posts I feel I have taken your advanced class.



You're welcome  

We were all novices at some point; I've learned a lot from people here on CPF too, which is one of the many things I appreciate about this forum :thumbsup:


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## KeepingItLight (Feb 20, 2016)

Quick detail about the BLF A6. 

The step-down in turbo mode occurs at 45 seconds, not 30. The original firmware had it set for 30-seconds. After the last prototype was tested, it was raised to 45 seconds for the production run.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Convoy thread...


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## Phlogiston (Feb 21, 2016)

Actually, that sounds familiar, now that you mention it. It does seem to vary from unit to unit, though. 

I just timed the two A6-based lights I have within reach at the moment against my watch, and they're stepping down at (approximately) 35 seconds and 40 seconds, respectively. Swapping the cells over between them doesn't seem to make a difference (cells were at 3.47V and 4.08V), so my money's on manufacturing variations in the A6 board's clock frequency. I doubt they used close-tolerance components... 

I should really write something about a Convoy light sometime and get myself back on topic here


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## stephenk (May 6, 2016)

Back to the S2+.
In warm ambient temperatures, roughly how long can the 7135*6 and 7135*8 be comfortably and safely run at 100% power due to heat?


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## Phlogiston (May 9, 2016)

stephenk said:


> Back to the S2+.
> In warm ambient temperatures, roughly how long can the 7135*6 and 7135*8 be comfortably and safely run at 100% power due to heat?



I don't have any lights with those drivers, because I like my lights to be capable of: 


holding full power continuously; or
stepping down automatically before they overheat.
However, I'll try to make some estimates based on what I do know. 

My S2+ with a 7135*3 will run continuously at 1.05A in 20°C ambient conditions for as long as I want it to. It gets very warm, but not hot. I'd confidently run it in 35°C conditions, where I'd expect it to hit "disconcertingly hot, but safe" and stay there without getting any hotter. 

My S2+ with a 7135*4 will run continuously at 1.4A in 20°C ambient conditions for as long as I want it to. It verges on "disconcertingly hot", but stays safe. I'm not sure I'd want to leave it running for a long time in 35°C conditions, though. 

Note that both of these are when I'm holding the light in my hand. That allows it to dissipate heat into my hand, which is more efficient than dissipating heat into the air. I'd be happy to leave a 7135*3 running continuously whilst tailstanding or in a flashlight mount, but I wouldn't be keen on doing that with a 7135*4. 

As an aside, a flashlight mount actually adds a bit of insulation relative to tailstanding in free air, which is something to bear in mind when mounting a light which doesn't have a dedicated tripod mounting screw or similar system built in. 

Now, my BLF A6 gets disconcertingly hot, but remains safe at 5A until it steps down (I believe the current version steps down at 45 seconds). That light appears to be of similar form, mass and construction to the Convoy S2+. 

If we take 1.4A as an upper limit, based on the 7135*4, the BLF A6 at 5A is 3.6A over limit. The 7135*8 at 2.8A is 1.4A over limit, which is 1.4A ÷ 3.6A = 0.39 times the excess current. I'll call that 0.4 - always round conservatively when doing things like this - and invert it to get 1 ÷ 0.4 = 2.5 times more runtime. 

In other words, the 7135*8 in an S2+ _should_ manage 2.5 × 45 seconds = 112.5 seconds, or about 1 minute 50 seconds at full power before it gets disconcertingly hot during hand-held use in 20°C ambient conditions. That does actually seem reasonable, given that my Fenix UC35 will manage 5 minutes at a similar level (the UC35 has a lot more metal to dump heat into). 

If we now assume that the light will instantly fry in ambient conditions of 70°C, that gives us 50°C of headroom above 20°C. Taking 35°C as an example, for 35°C of thermal headroom, we can estimate a new runtime multiplier of 35°C ÷ 50°C = 0.7 times the runtime. Our 112.5 seconds now becomes 112.5 seconds × 0.7 = 78.8 seconds, or about 1 minute 15 seconds in 35°C ambient conditions. 

Doing the same calculations for a 7135*6 at 2.1A, or 0.7A over the 7135*4 limit I've adopted, we get 0.7A ÷ 3.6A = 0.19 times the excess current relative to a BLF A6. I'll call that 0.2 and invert it to get 1 ÷ 0.2 = 5 times the runtime. 

In other words, the 7135*6 in an S2+ _should_ manage 5 × 45 seconds = 225 seconds, or 3 minutes 45 seconds at full power before it gets disconcertingly hot during hand-held use in 20°C ambient conditions. Applying our previous multiplier for 35°C ambient conditions, that would fall to 225 × 0.7 = 157.5 seconds, or about 2 minutes 35 seconds. 

Of course, if you were to put the 7135*6 or 7135*8 into a larger body with more heat dissipating capacity, you'd get more runtime. I can tell you that with certainty, because I got James at 3Tronics (James' CPF thread) to build the innards of a BLF A6 into a Convoy X3 body for me. That light will run continuously in 850lm mode - roughly equivalent to a 7135*8 at full power - until the battery runs out, and it barely gets warm. It really is all about whether you can get rid of the heat. 

That's pretty much everything I can tell you; hopefully it gives you a ballpark idea of what you're likely to be dealing with. 

I'm sure some of our readers will have S2+ lights with the 7135*6 or 7135*8 driver, though. Perhaps someone might add some real-life experience to confirm or refute my estimates?


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## stephenk (May 9, 2016)

Thanks for the very detailed response!


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## Phlogiston (Jun 1, 2016)

I've just discovered *maukka*'s thread with a comprehensive instrumental analysis of his Convoy S2+ T6-3B 7135*8 sample, including spectrophotometric data and graphs. It's a good thread, and I love having data like that, so I've referenced it from my original post here as well. 



stephenk said:


> Thanks for the very detailed response!



You're welcome  

Originally, I was just going to post a couple of paragraphs, but I decided that it would be better to lay out my reasoning in full. That way, anyone else with a similar question in future can see how it's done, and perhaps save themselves having to wait until I get back to them with an answer.


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## Grijon (Nov 8, 2016)

Another big thank you for this thread! I'm very close to ordering my first Convoy, something I never would have considered without this information.


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## Lexel (Nov 8, 2016)

The S2+ with 1400mA can run on high without getting too hot left alone
with 2100mA gets too hot left alone but in your hand you will love it if its cold outside

more throw and continous lumens the C8 XPL V2-1A is very nice
my sample has almost no tint and easily lights up things in 200m distance


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## Phlogiston (Nov 11, 2016)

Grijon said:


> Another big thank you for this thread! I'm very close to ordering my first Convoy, something I never would have considered without this information.



Thank you for letting me know :thumbsup: I'm rather impressed to see this thread still being helpful a year after I started it! 



Lexel said:


> The S2+ with 1400mA can run on high without getting too hot left alone with 2100mA gets too hot left alone but in your hand you will love it if its cold outside



The new face of flashaholism: summer and winter lights  

I'm quite tempted to get one of the upgraded Convoy lights with the new firmware from Toykeeper, but I'm holding off for the moment, because I have too many projects cluttering up my desk already.

I can tell you that Convoy's new 1xAAA light is nice, though: stainless steel, retained-head twisty operation and an XPE2 LED in your choice of 4000K, 5000K or 6000K. The tailcap unscrews to load the cell, and it has a very solid-looking keyring lug on it, which I like, but it does mean that there's no chance of tailstanding the light. Both the head and tail threads feel a bit scratchy when you turn them, and the retained head can't be removed to apply grease, so I'll be curious to see if the thread feel smooths out after some use. 

The light has a single mode rated at 50lm, with a brighter hotspot and noticeably more throw than a BLF-348. There is a clearly visible ring at the outer edge of the beam when you shine it on a white wall, but I didn't find it intrusive in use, and the rest of the beam looks clean to me. 

I did a rough and ready runtime test using a standard 750 mAh Eneloop AAA, which produced a good 90 minutes before it started to visibly fade out. The light didn't get particularly hot, and there was no sudden cut-off, either - it slowly ran down to a firefly level over a further 30 minutes. The cell voltage was 0.84V when I ended the run. The Convoy listing on AliExpress says it'll do 2 hours or more on a 900mAh cell; if you include a few minutes of the fading period, that's definitely credible. 

A few months ago, I tried to give a BLF-348 to an older person I know. Unfortunately, they didn't have the dexterity for the (relatively small) clicky switch, so I gave them a Convoy AAA light yesterday. The twisty head does the job nicely; being a retained-head design, there's no possibility of it falling off and getting lost, either. The nice, simple "on" or "off" operation went down well, too, in line with my experience that quite a few non-flashaholics prefer single-mode lights to multimode ones.


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## radellaf (Nov 12, 2016)

Just got in a S2+ 3000K 1050mA 3-mode (5%low---30%mid---100%high , so SOS or strobe) and found this thread to double check my tailcap measurement (1.1A) and get an idea of the lumens (300,100). It's a nice companion (clone?) to have with the Jaxman E3 with the 4000K high CRI, which I also got with no SOS or Strobe.

Very glad I got the 1050mA 3x driver so it can tailstand on high and run 2 hours even on basic 2200mAh PKCell ICR18650s. Hits 47C on the head at 40C on the logo. 4x driver would probably have been hotter than I'd be comfortable with for continuous use.

Bit annoying that older chinese lights like the Yezl, which I got when the XM-L was a new thing, have true low voltage cutoff while this one doesn't. Any flashlight I let my wife use I have to assume might be left on, outside, overnight or longer before I say "hey, where's that flashlight?". Though, using cheapie (but I think trustworthy) $3 instead of $7-9 batteries, it wouldn't be much of a loss, and I have rather a number of that type (PKCell 2200mAh, Tlife 2200mAh, SZNH 2000mAh, SZNS 2500mAh) in addition to the high performance batteries for the ZL.

Great pair of lights. I love the really warm color temperatures much more than the (otherwise OMG great) Zebralight SC62w MkIII HI. I had an old P60 XP-G mod that was warm white but might overheat on a high that's more like the medium on these. And, a rare 4sevens Quark Mini AA warm (& a neutral). Nice and tiny, but having up-to-date tech and 18650 runtimes in lights that put out incandescent-looking lights, for bargain prices, is awesome. Glad this forum helped me find them.


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## Lexel (Nov 12, 2016)

The light wont drain the battery below 2.8V

if you let it run over night it glows a little maybe 1/100 of a lumen, if you turn it off it wont turn on again

I got the 7135*4 and it has no problem at all running ceiling bounce for hours

the new firmware will be a nice improovement over the stock ones, ordered one from simon


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## stephenk (Nov 12, 2016)

Lexel said:


> The light wont drain the battery below 2.8V
> 
> if you let it run over night it glows a little maybe 1/100 of a lumen, if you turn it off it wont turn on again
> 
> ...



I've just received three S2+ with the new firmware/driver, and it is a fantastic upgrade from the original S2+ ! I've settled on mode group 2 (0.1,1,10,35,100%) and no memory for the time being. Once the new firmware is officially released in stock S2+, I'll post a review.


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## vadimax (Nov 13, 2016)

Ordered this one at Banggood:







Looks like a good and strong gift light.


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## Phlogiston (Nov 13, 2016)

Lexel said:


> The light wont drain the battery below 2.8V



Actually, it will. 

The one I tested went right down to 2.4V before I decided enough was enough. You can read the details here. I can even turn it on and off at 2.5V; it still manages to just barely power up. 

In addition, the circuitry still draws a trickle of power from the cell even when the microcontroller can't turn on. The light can look completely dead even as it slowly finishes killing your unprotected cell. I always use protected cells in these lights. 



stephenk said:


> I've just received three S2+ with the new firmware/driver, and it is a fantastic upgrade from the original S2+ !



I don't have one in hand, so this is based on my understanding of the stock Biscotti firmware, but I believe one of the upgrades is a full low voltage cut-off at 2.8V. However, the light will step down to progressively lower modes as power drops, so we should still get some warning beforehand, unless the light was already in the lowest mode. 

That's one of the reasons I enable moonlight mode in my lights with this behaviour - I never use moonlight mode, so the light always has something left to drop down to from the lowest mode I do use. Nice if I've forgotten to take my charger on a trip and I'm trying to eke out my cells as far as I can! 



stephenk said:


> I've settled on mode group 2 (0.1,1,10,35,100%) and no memory for the time being. Once the new firmware is officially released in stock S2+, I'll post a review.



I really like the look of mode group 10 (1%, 10%, 35%, 100%) for the 7135*3 or 4 configurations I use. 

I'll look forward to reading your review when the time comes  When you post your review thread, could you post a link to it in this thread as well, please?


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## stephenk (Nov 15, 2016)

Phlogiston said:


> I'll look forward to reading your review when the time comes  When you post your review thread, could you post a link to it in this thread as well, please?


Will do!


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## lumen aeternum (Nov 18, 2016)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*

Do the colors indicate some electronic configuration, or are they the color of anodizing on the body?


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## Phlogiston (Nov 18, 2016)

*Re: Convoy S2+ Red: Option Comparison Tables*



lumen aeternum said:


> Do the colors indicate some electronic configuration, or are they the color of anodizing on the body?



The Convoy S2+ colours are just decorative; they refer to the anodising colour. You can get black, grey, red, blue or green. All of the driver and LED options are available for each colour, so you can basically pick the colour you like, then Convoy will install the driver / LED combination of your choice. 

One difference to be aware of is that the black and grey S2+ lights have a rubber tailswitch cap, while the red, blue and green ones have metal tailswitch caps. 

Convoy are known to be working on a desert tan S2+ (see here), but that remains subject to Simon Mao being satisfied with the quality of the result, because desert tan anodising is notoriously awkward to produce. Some very nice factory samples have been made, though  

There's also a possibility that Convoy will release a clear-anodised (i.e. silver coloured) S2+ at some point, but I don't know anything beyond that. Closest I can get to concrete information is here.


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## Jambo (Jan 30, 2017)

stephenk said:


> I've just received three S2+ with the new firmware/driver, and it is a fantastic upgrade from the original S2+ ! I've settled on mode group 2 (0.1,1,10,35,100%) and no memory for the time being. Once the new firmware is officially released in stock S2+, I'll post a review.



where did you order these from please?


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## caram (Mar 3, 2017)

Thanks for all the info, this thread is worth a $M :thumbsup:


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## stephenk (Mar 4, 2017)

Jambo said:


> where did you order these from please?


Directly from Convoy Shenzhen Flashlight store on Aliexpress. You have to request new firmware via message when you get to the point of payment. Simon will then adjust the cost.


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## Phlogiston (Jul 23, 2017)

It is now possible to buy a stock Convoy S2+ with the new firmware. At time of writing, only the new Desert Tan version comes with it as standard. All other colours are still sold with the old firmware by default. 

If you want one, make sure you buy the Desert Tan version directly from Convoy through their AliExpress store. Other suppliers like Banggood, Fasttech and Gearbest are rumoured to still be using the old firmware. 

It is also possible to buy a stock Convoy C8 with the new firmware. At time of writing, only the new Clear version (read: silver coloured) comes with it as standard. All other colours are still sold with the old firmware by default. 

If you want one, make sure you buy the Clear version directly from Convoy through their AliExpress store. Other suppliers like Banggood, Fasttech and Gearbest are again rumoured to still be using the old firmware.


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## Loverofthelight (Jul 24, 2017)

Wow, this is fantastic! Thank you!


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## stephenk (Jul 24, 2017)

Phlogiston said:


> It is now possible to buy a stock Convoy S2+ with the new firmware. At time of writing, only the new Desert Tan version comes with it as standard. All other colours are still sold with the old firmware by default.
> 
> If you want one, make sure you buy the Desert Tan version directly from Convoy through their AliExpress store. Other suppliers like Banggood, Fasttech and Gearbest are rumoured to still be using the old firmware.
> 
> ...



It should be noted that the stock Desert Tan S2+ has an XP-L HI emitter and smooth reflector, different to the usual XM-L2 and OP reflector. It is indeed correct that currently the Desert Tan at retailers other than Convoy's AliExpress store has the old 3/5 mode firmware. 
If ordering through Convoy's AliExpress store, you can request customisation of any model (as I did last year to request Biscotti firmware and AR glass in a Black S2+).


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## Phlogiston (Jul 26, 2017)

stephenk said:


> It should be noted that the stock Desert Tan S2+ has an XP-L HI emitter and smooth reflector, different to the usual XM-L2 and OP reflector. [...]



That's a good point; thanks for highlighting it. 

As a rough rule of thumb, the XP-L HI emitter will produce about 5% fewer lumens than the equivalently-binned XM-L2. However, the beam from the XP-L HI should have a noticeably tighter focus, especially with the smooth reflector, so one should actually be able to see further with it, albeit on a narrower front.


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## stephenk (Jul 27, 2017)

Phlogiston said:


> That's a good point; thanks for highlighting it.
> 
> As a rough rule of thumb, the XP-L HI emitter will produce about 5% fewer lumens than the equivalently-binned XM-L2. However, the beam from the XP-L HI should have a noticeably tighter focus, especially with the smooth reflector, so one should actually be able to see further with it, albeit on a narrower front.


I'll post a beam profile comparison when my Desert Tan S2+ arrives.


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## twist3r (Feb 7, 2020)

Thanks Phlogiston for this topic. I'm new to all this 'flashlight' thing, and I'm reading/gathering as many information as I can. I plan to order a Convoy S2+ flashlight soon but there are certain things that I first need to figureout.

I need a flashlight for use at (before sunrise, which means 'its still dark') flea market in my area. Sellers are putting staff at the ground, so I need a flashlight that will 'light up' all the staff that seller is offering. 

At first I thought I should order the same S2+ as your red Convoy (7135*3 XML2 6T-3B), but some members at BLF suggested that I would be using such lamp at 'hight' all the time (if I pick 7135*3) driver. (I sent you a PM at BLF since I can't send PMs here yet, since I"m new member).

What would you suggest as a good lamp for flea market before sunrise? I thought about getting a 'flood' flashlirght which (from what I understood) XML2 is good for, but since this is my first flashlight that I'm about to order, I don't know how much lumes I would need to clearly lighten up all the staff that seller is offering (staff is put on the ground, not on tables). At the same time, lamp needs not to get hot easily because if I pick some staff and try to 'check it closely' that lamp would still be turned on. Also, to not waste battery fast.

Any suggestions?

btw. in post #7 of this topic you have posted comparison images. I see how XML2 T6-B3 looks like, BUT you didn't mantioned (or maybe i coudn't find it), if that was a light at 100% and what driver it was 7135*3 or *4, *6, or even *8 ?


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## Pioneer8387 (Feb 10, 2020)

Just ordered a couple of these to try. I wish I would have found this thread first, maybe would have went with lower 7135. and the Alliexpress store.
1. [h=1]Convoy S2+ L2 T6 - 4C LED Flashlight[/h]- Blue T6-4C
2. [h=1]Convoy S2+ Cree XML2 U2 - 1B 7135 x 8 8 - Mode 960lm Highlight LED White Flashlight (1 x 18650)[/h]- Gray Temperature color: 6500 - 7000K

Now what batteries, Protected or Unprotected? 
I am a noobie!!
Is the only worries of an unprotected battery that over discharging it could ruin it? 
Or is there the possibility of it exploding in the charger? I have a Nitecore Newi4


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## prof student (Nov 14, 2020)

Soooooooooo, IF i understood this correctly......

You really don't get much runtime using it at 100% on the 7135 x 8 because a) it gets too hot, b) it has temperature regulation.
So, realistically i would run it at the 30% level for extended periods of time = 1,800 lumens X 30%= 540

If I went with the 7135 x 4 driver, since it has 1/2 the chips, does that mean all the #s are directly proportional to the 7135 x 8 driver? 
Would I be able to run the 7135 x 4 driver at 100% without it overheating? 
& would the runtimes be better since it draws less amps?


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## spoonrobot (Feb 21, 2021)

I know this is an old thread but it was extremely useful to me when I was first getting into the S2+ so I wanted to share some of the data I've collected as well. A fan third party update of sorts.

Over the past year or two I've purchased and tested various lights trying to find the perfect light for my EDC and bicycle light. I finally settled on the SST40 5A model, below are some of the measurements I took for the variety of lights I bought. Data are from the ceilingbounce app-based shoebox calibrated with a BLF348 light.










For each of the lights listed above I performed runtime tests with 18650, as well as 18350 and 16340 for some of the lights. https://drandalls.wordpress.com/2021/02/15/convoy-s2-runtimes-updated-with-lh351d-and-kw-cslnm1-tg/

I hope this is helpful. I think the S2+ are great lights with a variety of options that make them useful to many different user requirements.


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