# 35W Westinghouse #04424 - Anybody using this bulb?



## jwl (Aug 3, 2006)

What do you think about its preformance? How does it compare to other lights; ROP, Mag85, etc...

I'm considering changing my 6D ROP over to run this bulb...IF it is that much better.

Thought?:thinking:


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## jefft (Aug 4, 2006)

Ummmm, _way_ brighter than the ROP hi or M*g85. Very robust bulb. I run mine in the 6D host with 8 rechargeable "C"s in a PVC sleeve with awr's hotdriver. _Torch_ lumens probably 1200-1400. Runs for about 40 minutes or so. Lots of fun as long as you don't have to carry it very far. Great choice if you need to blind and whack something......


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## andrewwynn (Aug 4, 2006)

I think that NikolaTesla and i can take the claim to the first to really push that particular lamp. He bought a couple and we figured we'd over drive it with 6xNIMH CBP1650s.. the output was not astonighing. 

Jefft's solution is an unbeatable model for running the hell out of that lamp.. I would run it in a 2D with 8xAA and the hotdriver. 

I was not a particular fan of that light.. for the same size host and power level.. i much prefer the osram 64275.. it's much whiter and since it runs at a much lower voltage (optimum voltage:7.0).. it's perfect for use with a 6-AA in a 2D no boring required solution. Runtime won't be very long.. pulling 6.35A but other than the crazy lights like the 2D 3500L light i like to 'show off with'.. There will not be much to compete with. 

To really make the light shine you need more than 6 cells.. but like jefft mentioned.. putting 8c into a 6D with pvc.. it's outstanding.. the Westinghouse lamp is extreeeemly robust.. if using the hotdriver to hold back the overvoltage from fresh charge, the bulb life estimates are out of this world. 

-awr


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## Bob_G (Aug 4, 2006)

The specs on the Westinghouse are kind of laughable compared to what we're used to for flashlights - the really low output, color temp and high lifetime. I don't think people are overdriving them so high because they can, but because they have to 

A 35W solution that doesn't get much play here is the Phillips 5761. I'm trying one now and really like it so far. I have a perfect host for it, so that helps - FM 6AAx2 S/P in a 3D. With CBP 1650s, thats a minimum of 2800mAh and all the current you need for the bulb, so a really nice way to use the 1650. The host was originally setup for the WA1111 and hotdrivered at 7.2V.

What I'm liking so much about it is the beam. The roundest spot I've seen, and it's perfectly sized to the power available, expanding beautifully with distance. It doesn't need much of a reflector to work, I'm using a MOP and it's fine. The spill is pretty shadowy, but at this power level, that's okay, and the somewhat dim spill just serves to show off the great spot. 

This is easily the highest current bulb I've used, so no experience with the heat, and it gets hot. The first heat you feel is from the switch LOL. I guess I'm giving the MOSFET a workout. Time will tell, only had it a few days, but with this battery solution, it may be a keeper.


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## xpitxbullx (Aug 4, 2006)

Bob_G,

How many lumens is the 5761 rated at 7.2V? I'm going to use this setup in my M6-R.

Jeff


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## Bob_G (Aug 4, 2006)

I have no idea  I assumed this would be a 1185 alternative power wise. I've often wondered why the significant percentage differences in overdrive aren't discussed much here. With WA bulbs and NiMH batteries, it's natural to overdrive with one battery. But that makes a 1185 +10% and a 1111 +20%. Big difference.

Using WA's page for rerating, I plugged in some values and saw that it's close to a linear progression between percentage of overdrive and percentage of increase in bulb lumen. In other words, starting with a 10% increase in drive, gave a 50% increase in lumen. 15% increase in drive gave a 66% increase in lumen and 20% increase gave 88% increase in lumen. So doubling the overdrive _almost_ doubled the lumen output.

Going with those numbers, and rounding down to be conservative, I get 1377 bulb lumen for the 5761 at 7.2V. I just got my Mag85 (at 15% overdrive) back from Mirage_Man (Yea Brian!) so haven't compared them yet, but the output looks similar white walling. 

To make it simple - WA rerates the [email protected] (15% OD) at 1357 so 1377 is amazingly close for a 20%OD on the 5761 if my figuring is at all valid.


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## jwl (Aug 4, 2006)

andrewwynn - What is the expected life of the 64275? From what you said, I'm thinking that the 64275 wouldn't have a chance against 6D's when I am pushing ~7.5 volts at the socket and that was measured with a stock switch not a KIU switch.

Bob_G - Where are you getting your 5761 bulbs? Don't suppose you have any beamshots?


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## Bob_G (Aug 4, 2006)

http://www.replacementlightbulbs.com/lamp5761.html

http://www.bulbconnection.com/ViewItem/bcrw/itmid/1309/oc/5761/item.html

Sorry, I've never got up the nerve to try beamshots, but I've been thinking about it lately - might be fun, but a lot of work to do it respectably


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## andrewwynn (Aug 5, 2006)

I would like to see that philips lamp! it does sound very promising. 

Bob, the formula for lumen vs voltage involves approximately a cubic equation compared to the voltage increase.. it's actually a pretty simple equation.. (Voverdrive/Vrated)^3.5 x LumRated. 

In any event i just plugged in the values for the 5761.. and it's stellar. 

RATED output is 25.5 L/W that puts it in league with the IRC lamps! 

re-rated for 7.1V (since at 5.5A even with hotdriver you'll only get 7.1 to the lamp from a 7.2V source).. the values are such:

7.21 Vbat
7.1V lamp
110mV drop on the ckt.
5.49A
38.9W
1379 bulb lumen
896 torch lumen (more than an 1185 at 11.1V!)
35.4 Lumen/Watt.. (just about the maximum possible).
CCT 3375 (that doesn't quite jive with the L/W figure so one of them is likely off).. it should be far whiteer than that.
hours: 13.3.. likewise about the CCT.. it's inversely related to bulb life, but the 13.3 is closer to what i'd expect with that CCT.

in any event.. whow.. nice lamp i need to try one. 

I'm working right now on a really neat mod.. 2D size.. no boring.. 3AH battery.. the 6.35A draw of the osram is too high for the LiON cells.. but the 5761's 5.5 is below the 6.0A max recommended.. 

JWL.. expected life at 7.5 of a 64675 is 0.1 second. I ran one for about 1 second at 7.2V.. it's about 1000L.. not worth the $6 per second cost i'm afraid  de-tuned to 7.0V with hotdriver they are just simply stunning. They have that 'white enough to blow' look about them. I think they are very similar to the 64625 in the 'touchy' about overdrive.. i wouldn't recommend any direct-drive solution since it's not really feasible to get 7.0V w/o over voltage direct-drive.

-awr


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## Bob_G (Aug 5, 2006)

awr,

I'm on my way to work, but a quick note. I took the Mag85 and the 5761 outside last night for the first time and the "first impression" was that the 1185 was a little yellow! So, no problems with the color temp on the 5761. They appeared to the eye to put out about the same amount of light, but of course the 5761 put more on target because of that wonderful spot.

Funny how we're so close on lumens, virtually the same, with completely different approaches lol. Thanks for the numbers btw


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## jwl (Aug 5, 2006)

Mine will be running off 6 D-size CTA NiMHs.

I thinking I may need to get a hotdriver to keep from flashing the bulb with freshly charged batteries. These big D-cells don't sag much under load.

andrewwynn - you still have hotdrivers available? If I get one now that is setup for running at 7.2V can the same driver be adjusted to run at 12-14 volts later on? You know how we just have to keep pushing for more power:rock: . Just imagine how many smaller batteries can be shoved into a 6D body...... ...


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## andrewwynn (Aug 6, 2006)

not only do i have over 100 boards left for the vOne hotdriver the vTwo boards are in and i'll be selling those pretty soon.. there was about a month delay to get enough orders to get one of the expensive parts i hvae to order 100+ at a time.. but they come on monday so there shouldn't be much wait to get them out the door. 

one of the best parts about hotdriver is how easy it is to change the setting to a different level. 

don't have to imagine long.. the smartpak battery pack is designed to be ANY length.. 21-24-27-30 cells.. shouldn't be hard at all to get into certain mods. 

-awr


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## JimmyM (Oct 9, 2006)

My current hotwire host is a 4D with 6 1/2Ds, Hotdriver, KIU, tail spring fix, etc.
I was running the 64275 at 7.0, then 7.1. At 7.2 it ran for a few minutes then blew the next time I restarted it. Now I've got the 5761 bulb running at 7.2 and it is quite bright indeed. As cheap as they are, I might just keep a couple of 5761s in the tailcap.

I'd like to move onto something in the 60-80 watt range. Would that be an over driven IRC 50W?


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## andrewwynn (Oct 9, 2006)

64275 can't survive 7.2.. maybe 7.1 but probably not worth it.. it really is a charmer at 7.0 and the bonus is that means regulated output 'til 1.16V/cell.. pretty much means 90% regulation with big cells.

IRC 50W is very nice.. about 90W and 2000+L.. but requires 18.5V or 16 cells.

awr


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## JimmyM (Oct 10, 2006)

andrewwynn said:


> 64275 can't survive 7.2.. maybe 7.1 but probably not worth it.. awr


 
I was using a Hotdriver in a KIU. My DMM said 7.20 volts at the legs of the bulb. It only lasted a couple of minutes. Boy was it white though. The 5761 is surviving at 7.2.
I can fit 19 1/2Ds in a 6D + 2x 3D extensions. But I only have 2 of the 3D extensions. I'd like to save the 12D M*g for a true monster 120+ watts.
That puts me back at 6D and 9 (maybe 10) 1/2Ds. Hmmmm, what would be 60-80 watts on 9-10 cells ?


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## LED BriCK (Oct 11, 2006)

Is this bulb (35W Westinghouse #04424) the one used in [email protected]? If so...
Andrew, I have an 1185 in a driver you built for me for 9x CBP1650's. If I get a dummy cell, would this bulb be plug-and-play in this setup, or would I need to adjust the voltage?


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## andrewwynn (Oct 11, 2006)

JimmyM.. the 5761 can handle 7.2V.. the batteries won't keep 7.2 to the lamp the whole run.. but they can put 7.0 to the lamp for nearly a whole run.. one reason i like the 64275 solution or 1160 solution from '7.2V' bat pack.. full regulation. You were lukcy to get 2 min from 7.2V with the '275.. mine lasted 10 seconds at best.. regulated of course. I wouldn't bother with 7.1.. the 7.0 is awesome.. the color is phenomenal.. output is tremendous! 

LED Brick.. yes it is.. we direct-drove the 4424 from 8 cells.. you actually wouldn't have to use a dummy cell i believe from 9 cells with a hotdriver.. the voltage would need to be turned down.. but pulling 6-7A from 1650s.. i think you could have the driver set to 9V and might be able to run the light from 9 cells.. wouldn't be a bad idea to try with a dummy first and see what kind of voltage it will handle.. if your HD is a high-temp model it will simply turn off if the overhead voltage on the FET is too high, and if not.. the worst likely to happen is you'll blow the FET and i'll replace it... in the name of science i'd definitely try it out.

do the math first to see if your FET power is >10W.. that's about the max i recommend for short bursts.. it will overheat in about 2 minutes at that level.. 4W is the level that will last a fairly long run.

I don't really like the 4424 lamp.. i would prefer an 1185 from a portable light.. the draw is so much more current your runtime will really suffer.. i would keep the light as-is for a mag85 and put energy toward a bigger badder light like the 64610 or the IRC lamps.. 12CBP running the 64610 is nearly unbeatable in every department. 

oops back to Jimmy...

to run the IRC optimally you need 16 cells.. do they make 1/3D? I just googled the answer.. a '1/2D is actually 60% of a D and a 1/3D is exactly 50% of a D.. so a '3D' light would be 7.2V with 6x 1/3D.. that would be awesome.. or a 6D would be really nice with 11 or 12 1/3D for running the 100W lamps.. the 64625 looks nicer than the IRC in most cases anyhow.. extremely white!

8 cells probably can get the output you are looking for from the 4424... 60-80+W.. it will likely be 1400-1500L.. not bad at all. 

personally.. my favorite mag85 solution with 3D is a tribore and 9x17500 cells.. about an hour runtime.. can overdrive to about 880L initial (last for maybe 10 minutes).. slowly dropping to maybe 800L over the next 40-50 minutes.

-awr


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