# Help me design a knife



## Groundhog66 (Jan 5, 2008)

Is anyone interested in collaborating with me on a knife project, I think it would nice to see the 1st CPF blade. Yes, I am speaking to you makers out there....let's make something cool huh....


Tim


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## Dances with Flashlight (Jan 5, 2008)

This CPF Blade idea is great! Sadly, however, I know next to nothing about designing or building a knife - so about all I can offer is the thought that the design may be more popular, and the project possibly more attractive to others, if the knife is suitable for edc. I hope people with some expertise will jump on this bandwagon.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 5, 2008)

I am hoping to get one of the makers that visit us here on CPF to work with us, but we shall see.


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## Dances with Flashlight (Jan 5, 2008)

The Shot Show and other Flashaholic Get Togethers would be good places to drum up some interest and get marketing ideas.


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## Bloodnut (Jan 5, 2008)

Well, I'll throw in my .02. Should be something small and light - something that would be viable for EDC - NOT a sharpened pry bar. Maybe 3" blade and ~3" handle of micarta. 

The Becker Necker was/is a very popular knife. While I have a few, they never really did it for me. But something in that size range (would definitely need a lanyard) that is a bit more pointy would be just the ticket.

For the steel, I would say keep it simple. *I* would prefer O-1 with a good heat treat. I suspect most would prefer something more stainless. ATS-34/154CM would be fine, I suppose. Let's don't drop down to the 440 range though.

I suppose a kydex sheath suitable for IWB/neck/off-body carry would be in order.

So, a small, handy, rust-resistant blade that allows for versatile carry. Sounds like a CPF knife to me.


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## Raoul_Duke (Jan 5, 2008)

If its going to be a CPF Knife, it would be nice to see it being internationally legal. Like a slipjoint knife.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 5, 2008)

Raoul_Duke said:


> If its going to be a CPF Knife, it would be nice to see it being internationally legal. Like a slipjoint knife.




When you have to consider all the Int'l legalities, things turn VERY bland. If I only owned knives and guns that are CA legal, I wouldn't have ANY fun:shakehead. I am not looking for something to market on a big scale, just a small run of something cool. I love the idea of a necker w/kydex, 6" OA max. Micarta is cool, but I would like to have an option for something more exotic.

C'MON KNIFEMAKERS........stop being too busy to chime in.

:wave:


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## Raoul_Duke (Jan 5, 2008)

OK, Point taken, I thought you were talking about folders.

Since this would be a CPF knife, Are you going to incorperate a light into it?


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## Dances with Flashlight (Jan 5, 2008)

Bloodnut said:


> Should be something small and light - something that would be viable for EDC - NOT a sharpened pry bar. Maybe 3" blade and ~3" handle of micarta. So, a small, handy, rust-resistant blade that allows for versatile carry. Sounds like a CPF knife to me.


 
WITH A LIGHT! And a lanyard. This is sounding even better all the time.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 6, 2008)

Yeah, all we need is for someone to make it....:candle:


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## greenLED (Jan 6, 2008)

Hey, Tim - maybe you can get Daywalker (Chad Los Banos) involved?
http://www.clbdesign.info/


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## Bloodnut (Jan 6, 2008)

RE: the light. While I suppose this was a joke, I did think about having some tritium inset in the end of the scales/handle. That would be pretty unique and add come functionality too.

Perhaps greenLED might have some ideas on lanyards....???


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## bubbajoe (Jan 6, 2008)

maybe this sounds crazy and i don't mind taking the heat for it. 

how about a handle and blade in the shape of a candle. the handle would be straight and the blade would be in the shape of a candle flame. with the CPF logo on the handle. Add a little tritium under the logo. a gold blade or demascus steel . ebony wood scales. something real fancy . something you'd want to show off to everyone


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## greenLED (Jan 6, 2008)

Bloodnut said:


> Perhaps greenLED might have some ideas on lanyards....???


Funny that you mention it, I'm currently working on a couple knife-related paracord projects for a change.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 6, 2008)

bubbajoe said:


> maybe this sounds crazy and i don't mind taking the heat for it.
> 
> how about a handle and blade in the shape of a candle. the handle would be straight and the blade would be in the shape of a candle flame. with the CPF logo on the handle. Add a little tritium under the logo. a gold blade or demascus steel . ebony wood scales. something real fancy . something you'd want to show off to everyone




:sick2:


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 6, 2008)

greenLED said:


> Hey, Tim - maybe you can get Daywalker (Chad Los Banos) involved?
> http://www.clbdesign.info/



I have a couple of his Boker designs, I really like them.

:twothumbs


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## Dances with Flashlight (Jan 6, 2008)

bubbajoe said:


> maybe this sounds crazy and i don't mind taking the heat for it.
> 
> how about a handle and blade in the shape of a candle. the handle would be straight and the blade would be in the shape of a candle flame. with the CPF logo on the handle. Add a little tritium under the logo. a gold blade or demascus steel . ebony wood scales. something real fancy . something you'd want to show off to everyone


 
There was a time when I would have been the first to label an idea like that crazy, and to be quite honest I'd probably still feel ***** carrying around such a knife. However, hang around CPF long enough and you start looking for mementos, so maybe this isn't such a bad idea at that.


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## TITAN1833 (Jan 6, 2008)

Groundhog66 said:


> I have a couple of his Boker designs, I really like them.
> 
> :twothumbs


You could name it "THE HOG"  on one side. CPF SPECIAL on the other.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 6, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> You could name it "THE HOG"  on one side. CPF SPECIAL on the other.




BRILLIANT

:thumbsup:


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## Radio (Jan 6, 2008)

I assume since you are using the CPF name on the knife you have cleared it with Sasha the owner of the forum. If not I suggest doing so before going too much further.


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## Sigman (Jan 7, 2008)

I could go for something not too "exotic" in style, a nice all around, practical blade shape that would appeal to everyone? Kydex sheath would be great as well!

I like the size you're talking about too. It would be nice to hold the cost down so it would be more affordable to members. 

I'm just not one for all of these science fiction designs that are available. I guess they're meant more for collectors. I like users, but I'm just one member here.

Definitely ask for permission to use "CPF", though the knife doesn't have to be engraved. :thinking:


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## sed6 (Jan 7, 2008)

I think it's a fine idea. I'd like to see a folder, with a clip for EDC. Priced around $50-75.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 7, 2008)

sed6 said:


> I think it's a fine idea. I'd like to see a folder, with a clip for EDC. Priced around $50-75.



You won't find a maker to do a folder in that price range, not even close. 

As far as using the CPF name, it wouldn't have to be included if that becomes a problem. I am just trying to get a little project done with our new friends on the forum, could be as few a half dozen. I figured as long as we are going to have a Knifemakers Forum, we may as well try and do something with it.....:thinking:....Besides, it's not looking like anyone is going to volunteer their time and skills anyway. 


I do want to make it clear that I am not looking for anyone to donate time or materials for this, I plan to pay full asking price as deemed by the maker.


Tim


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## george tichbourne (Jan 7, 2008)

When someone gets a drawing done send it to me and I will try to put a prototype together. No charge.

George


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## SAR (Jan 7, 2008)

george tichbourne said:


> When someone gets a drawing done send it to me and I will try to put a prototype together. No charge.
> 
> George



Wow thats cool George way to step up and help out, if there is anything I can help out with let me know.

Spencer


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## T.Rexford (Jan 7, 2008)

Same here if you guys need anything I'm definately down.


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## Darell (Jan 7, 2008)

Groundhog66 said:


> As far as using the CPF name, it wouldn't have to be included if that becomes a problem.



It likely will be no problem at all. Just needs official clearance before something is sold with the CPF name on it. I personally think it is an awesome idea.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 7, 2008)

If anyone wants to help out in the actual design, please PM me so we can brainstorm. So far "The Hog" will may the following....

Necker?
Kydex
6" OA
Part Serrated?
Handle - Semi-Exotic natural material or Paracord Wrap? I like the look of Hand Grooved G10, perhaps Black?
Blade - Not a fan of TAnto for users, so Drop Point or Recurve

I am thinking if it might be deemed "The Hog", shouldn't it have a somewhat Beefy blade?

Let's see what we can come up with.

Tim


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## george tichbourne (Jan 7, 2008)

PS I work in 440C primarily so the prototype will be in that material.

George


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 7, 2008)

george tichbourne said:


> PS I work in 440C primarily so the prototype will be in that material.
> 
> George




Sounds great.....I am trying to come up with a design that will include a little something from the pages of each makers website, I really like what I see.


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## Bloodnut (Jan 7, 2008)

Mr. Tichbourne,

Perhaps scale down your "Companion" design, ditch the clip point in favor of a drop point, smooth out the finger grooves, and apply some more utilitarian (lower costs ) scales. That might be a good jumping off place for the CPF blade.

Just a suggestion. I like that blade a lot.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 7, 2008)

I think something in the relm of his "Small Skinner" could pass as "The Hog" with a design like that. Put some nice grippy hand grooved G10 scales, perhaps some Black and Silver Mosaic pins. Scales like Black SAR Hornet Recurve, but with a Hand satin blade.


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## george tichbourne (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks for the offer of help guys, the fun part is about to begin....designing a knife by committee is always good for a chuckle or two if you are not on that committee.

I am officially declaring myself neutral and am going to enjoy the action from the sidelines until a drawing appears.

George


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 8, 2008)

Sounds like a worthy project.
I'd be willing to toss in some ideas. Having a trit in the handle somewhere would definitely be a CPF-like thing to do.


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## TITAN1833 (Jan 8, 2008)

Yeah+1 but how about a disc trit"this would be more fiitting for a knife IMO 


PhantomPhoton said:


> Sounds like a worthy project.
> I'd be willing to toss in some ideas. Having a trit in the handle somewhere would definitely be a CPF-like thing to do.


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## Sigman (Jan 8, 2008)

If we're voting (?)...I'm putting in for a plain edge (no serration), drop point, scales to keep it affordable - but nice looking? How hard is carbon fiber to work with or the epoxied canvas scales are pretty durable, eh?

Ok keep in mind, I really don't know much of anything about knives!!  But a design with universal applications would be appreciated & probably sell better as well?

Test the waters with this "first" one, then the specialized designs could be considered later?


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## schiesz (Jan 10, 2008)

I'll try to make a drawing tomorrow. I'd love to help make a CPF knife. 

Did you ask Sasha if it can be a CPF knife yet?

schiesz


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## schiesz (Jan 10, 2008)

Okay, here is my sketch. I sharpened up the lines with paint, but this is basically what I see for a nice EDC fixed blade.

3" cutting edge, full tang, large choil, 3 finger handle, with full hand possible using choil. I like the steel coming out in front and behind the handle to give a better grip, but it might be better to remove those to accomidate various hand sizes. I also really like having the choil to choke up on the blade for detail work, plus I think they look nice. I like spearpoint blades, maybe with a bit of a swedge on the front. 7 inches overall length, and it would take a blank 1.5" wide to do it as shown here.

For steel, i'm fine with whatever. I would love S30V or CPM 154, but they might be cost prohibative for this. I have no problems with 440C, or anything else someone may suggest. 

For the handles I would use a 2 color G10, but some type of linen micarta or something would be fine as well.

I could very well be the only person that likes this design, but i'd like to see what anyone else thinks. Feel free to use this picture and modify it.

Click the thumbnail to enlarge:




schiesz


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## Cypher (Jan 10, 2008)

I took your suggestion and played around with the sketch. The first three I played with blade shape and the fourth I played with the handle. I just used MS Paint to fool around and my skills are weak so they are kind of ugly. 

My alterations are mostly an excercise for me personally since I've always thought it would be cool to design a knife. 

Disclaimer: I did this without reference to any other knives so any similarity to a maker's work is accidental and is not in any way meant to encroach upon their ideas. I am not a knifemaker and I just made the knife look appealing to my eye. 

I don't know how to make thumbnails so here's they are full size. Sorry.


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## schiesz (Jan 11, 2008)

I think I like the third one best of those.

I'm just glad to see someone likes the general idea.

Any other thoughts? Anyone hate the general idea here? 

I think these changes would need 2" wide stock to complete, but I don't know if thats any different than 1.5" wide as far as prices and availability goes. Maybe one of the knifemakers here can give us some insight there.

schiesz

Incidentally, for thumbnails: Since you are already using photobucket for the pics, just click the boxes under each pic you want to make a thumbnail of, and click the button at the bottom that says generate HMTL. It will give you a bunch of test to copy. Pic the box that says "generate thumbnails for message boards, and copy the text out of that box. Paste that text in your message. Done.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 11, 2008)

I think I would prefer something shorter and a bit more beefy. Since the initial thought was of a necker, I think we are running into length issues.


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## schiesz (Jan 11, 2008)

I've never had a necker, so i'm not really familiar with the size and/or purpose. Perhaps like the Buck/Mayo Kaala?

http://www.buckknives.com/catalog/detail/613/236

But beefier? Wider blade perhaps?

***EDIT*** Actually, I just look them up, and both the Becker Necker and Kaala I linked here are 6.75" OAL. These pictures are 7" OAL. 

schiesz


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## adamlau (Jan 11, 2008)

A four-inch, titanium (else S30V) spearpoint with tungsten carbide serrations at an overall length of nine-inches with G-10 scales.


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## yaesumofo (Jan 11, 2008)

Get in touch with Osprey_Guy He is an amazing knife maker. he made me a clip for my McluxIII T. It is amazing. I have a book this guy compiled about many amazing knife makers and their techniques.
His name is Dennis and he hasn't posted in a while but I am sure he may be interested in a cool knife project. He could certainly guide us to a knife maker who is qualified to make a batch of knives for us.
Have a look at this Damascus clip he hand carved from a hunk of Damascus steel.
BTW I vote for something in Damascus. 
Yaesumofo


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## TITAN1833 (Jan 11, 2008)

I would vote for something like a hideaway,but"not fixed blade" lockable at two points  dont know if that could be achiveable?


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## george tichbourne (Jan 11, 2008)

You are getting there, the blade shape is pretty nice but the handle is not ergonomic. Look at your hand, the middle fingers are longer than the rest.

Folders are premium priced because of the mechanical assembly time, I would suggest keeping it to a fixed blade.


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## Greta (Jan 11, 2008)

Darell said:


> It likely will be no problem at all. Just needs official clearance before something is sold with the CPF name on it. I personally think it is an awesome idea.


Nope! Not a problem here! Keep me posted! :thumbsup:


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## schiesz (Jan 11, 2008)

Sasha said:


> Nope! Not a problem here! Keep me posted! :thumbsup:



Thanks for the go-ahead Sasha, I was hoping you had been contacted by someone at this point.

schiesz


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## schiesz (Jan 11, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> BTW I vote for something in Damascus.



I'd love to have it in Damascus, and I would pay for it, but it would raise the cost per blank probably 10-20X, judging from what I have seen damascus blanks go for. 

We would immediately be talking about a $200 fixed blade. 

I was concerned with using CPM 154 or S30V, and those would just be 2X-4X the cost of something like AUS8 or 440C most likely.

Probably best to keep the steel simple.

schiesz


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## Greta (Jan 11, 2008)

schiesz said:


> Thanks for the go-ahead Sasha, I was hoping you had been contacted by someone at this point.
> 
> schiesz


Well actually, I wasn't contacted. But I do check in on this forum from time to time...


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 11, 2008)

I would say we are looking at a knife priced over the $200 mark regardless, custom is not cheap. I will tray and post some links to something that resembles what I am thinking about.


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## schiesz (Jan 11, 2008)

Like a Ranger Little Bird? 
http://www.rangerknives.com/Knives/index.html

In my eyes, its pretty tough to make it much smaller than 6-7 inches and still be useful. The little bird pulls it off, so something along those lines might not be too bad.

I am interested now in the knifemakers thoughts on a cost for these. Lets say you agreed to make 20 knives, 440C steel, micarta handles. What price range are we in? 

I don't want to nail anyone down on anything exact, but maybe a range like $150-250 or something like that.

schiesz


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## GhostReaction (Jan 11, 2008)

Ditto on the custom pricing. Count me in for this CPF blade! 
Tim you started a great thread, I really hope the CPF blade will be made.

Maybe the handles (canvas micarta hopefully  )or blade need some Ultraglow epoxy powder on it 

My vote for 4th blade drawing on Cypher post. 

schiesz you ve made a very nice base drawings.




Groundhog66 said:


> I would say we are looking at a knife priced over the $200 mark regardless, custom is not cheap. I will tray and post some links to something that resembles what I am thinking about.


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## schiesz (Jan 11, 2008)

GhostReaction said:


> schiesz you ve made a very nice base drawings.



You might not say that if you could see the actual pencil sketch sitting here next to me 

I'm just glad to see some interest in this, I think we can come up with something worthwhile here.

schiesz


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## schiesz (Jan 11, 2008)

Just from looking at steel blanks at the places *I* buy knife supplies from, I think a real limiting factor here could be the width. I don't see much 2" wide stock available in any of the premium stainless steels. When its available, its 2X the cost of 1.5" stock, which is 2X the price of 1" stock.

I really like the blade shapes that Cypher added, but am curious if these more intricate shapes pose issues for the knife maker.

The custom makers here will know a lot more about these two things than I.

Regarding length, I just found a very nice Mike Obenauf "Obie Necker One" which is 7.25" OAL. I think 6-7" should be great, even if it does turn out to be a "necker" type knife.

schiesz
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 11, 2008)

The "Little Bird" is coming closer to what I am thinking, not too bad. I HAVE to have hand grooved G10 scales, I love that look. This project should come to light, might be between $200 - $350 range. I would LOVE some damascus, but I would hate to cut with it since it's SO pretty.


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## schiesz (Jan 11, 2008)

I'd like to see a cost estimate from a builder. I would think it would be better to keep costs down so that more people would be inclined to participate. Damascus? I was thinking of a knife that I will use.

schiesz


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## george tichbourne (Jan 11, 2008)

Well if we go with #3 the approximate cost with black linen micarta handles, 440C blade, all bead blasted about $100 depending on sheath selected.

Alternatives would be brown canvas micarta for better grip or wood like cocobolo for appearance.

George


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## Dances with Flashlight (Jan 11, 2008)

This is looking better all the time but I agree, keep costs down.


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## schiesz (Jan 11, 2008)

george tichbourne said:


> Well if we go with #3 the approximate cost with black linen micarta handles, 440C blade, all bead blasted about $100 depending on sheath selected.
> 
> Alternatives would be brown canvas micarta for better grip or wood like cocobolo for appearance.
> 
> George



Thank you for this information George. This really helps me get a handle on what we might be able to do. I would think the $100 range is a very good place to be.

schiesz


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## RA40 (Jan 12, 2008)

Set your initial price point and see what can be done. Many times, there can be a base model and one could option it up to taste. If you allow a CNC build, you can get a good deal provided you have the numbers to make the project feasible for the maker. Otherwise, you might approach a maker/company for a special run on a current model. 

This is a collaboration we did back in '02 as an FYI. 
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518291


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## weedle256 (Jan 12, 2008)

I like canvas micarta and keeping the price down.


This is a great idea, not sure if I can help with the design, but I sure can vote when the time comes!


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## schiesz (Jan 12, 2008)

I need to find out a price for it, but I keep seeing a certain makers knives, that he has made his own micarta for, and they are amazing. He sells the micarta, and we could probably ask for a certain color and get it.

I need to find out the price for this though, no idea if its feasible.

You can see his stuff here: http://www.harnerknives.com/

schiesz


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## Chronos (Jan 12, 2008)

GREAT idea! Thanks for the "head's up" schiesz.

I'd like to see the CPF colors worked into it- maybe the same shade of blue in G10. A 3" blade folder, framelock, with G10 or micarta scale. Tritium would be a great plus (how hard is it to find yellow or blue tritium to keep with the theme?). Plain spearpoint edge (probably the best all-around style), in the best steel that fits into the pricing model, maybe AUS8... or if possible CPM 154 or D2?

I like your drawing schiesz. Would it be possible to make the body of the knife more curved to make it more comfortable to hold and use? A grooved thumbramp on top, a choil on the bottom, otherwise keep it relatively simple. If the G10/micarta could be grooved, it would help keep the knife stable in the hand. But again, I think simplicity here is a good idea.


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 12, 2008)

Now that Sasha has given the nod I'll jump into the discussion.

I think keeping the knife available to as many CPF members as possible is a priority. But I doubt we'll agree on anything under around $150. First question: what is a target number of knives to make? 10? 50?

I'm with groundhog in wanting G-10 handles. But I won't throw a hissy fit about micarta. I have no knolwedge of knife making, tons of knowledge about knife using. I'm interested in knifemaking, so I want to learn as much as I can from this project. What are sources/ prices for G-10?

While I think Damascus is very pretty, I have less trust in the utility of damascus. Every fold compounds the potential for a flaw in the material and increases the possibility that the blade will break. This problem is much smaller on a knife versus a sword, but I'm a function over form person.
I don't care which flavor of the month super-steel is used but do we have better options than 440C?

Blade styles; very subjective and personal. What are other people thinking on this?
I am a tanto fan. (Probably due to my extensive background in Asian martial arts.) I like wharncliffe and hawkbill styles as well. Boring rounded spear points, convex drop points, etc just don't appeal to me.


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## schiesz (Jan 12, 2008)

My only experience with this is making kits from knifekits.com and jantzsupply.com. You can get micarta and G10 from knifekits I know, because I have bought it there. Jantz has a ton on laminated wood that looks nice and finishes very nice, IMO. Between Micarta and G10 I actually prefer the micarta. Its easier to work, and I think it finishes nicer. I LOVE the micarta they make at harnerknives.com. G10 is better for grip if you get the textured G10, and don't finish the flat sides. I would prefer grooved micarta to the flat textured G10 anyday. Grooved, multi-color G10 would be nice also, but without the texture I don't know any benefits it has over micarta for a fixed blade handle.

As far a steels go i'm fine with 440C, its a very fine grade of stainless. In my experience its very similar to AUS8, takes an edge fairly easily and keeps it well. If I could choose, i'd pick CPM 154 or S30V, but i've said that before.

Anyone else have a design or a modification to one of the designs?


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## Sigman (Jan 12, 2008)

Just throwing wood on this fire with some comments picked out of the posts previous to this one...:thumbsup:

 - a nice all around, practical blade shape that would appeal to everyone? Kydex sheath would be great as well!

-  Should be something small and light - something that would be viable for EDC - NOT a sharpened pry bar. Maybe 3" blade and ~3" handle of micarta.

-  favor of a drop point, smooth out the finger grooves

-  plain edge (no serration), drop point, scales to keep it affordable

-  Test the waters with this "first" one, then the specialized designs could be considered later?

-  3" cutting edge, full tang, large choil, 3 finger handle, with full hand possible using choil.

-  Probably best to keep the steel simple.

-  Set your initial price point and see what can be done. Many times, there can be a base model and one could option it up to taste

-  micarta handles, 440C blade, all bead blasted about $100 depending on sheath selected

-  I would think the $100 range is a very good place to be

-  I LOVE the micarta they make at http://www.harnerknives.com

- I would prefer grooved micarta to the flat textured G10 anyday

-  i'm fine with 440C, its a very fine grade of stainless. In my experience its very similar to AUS8, takes an edge fairly easily and keeps it well. If I could choose, i'd pick CPM 154 or S30V, but i've said that before


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 12, 2008)

I really like the blade design found here, also the hand grooved G10 on the black knife is awesome.

http://www.sarcustomknives.com/hornetrecurvemore.htm


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## Bloodnut (Jan 12, 2008)

Gh66,

Yeah, I can dig it. I wonder though if we could keep the cost down by knocking the "frills" off of that design. Basically, meld the handle and blade shapes together and eliminating the holes and extended choils/guard. Perhaps even eliminate the recurve as that, I believe, adds a bit of difficulty (time/cost) to grinding the blank. And again, going with a basic steel (440C or ATS-34) but with a GOOD heat treat.

And oh yeah, please be sure the final design incorporates a lanyard hole. It's not a big deal if you have the hole and don't need it, but if you need it and don't have it, that's not good.

ETA: and not to hijack the whole concept, but I could see this as an annual event. If we start with a smallish, basic user design; larger, more embellished designs can follow. As for the steel, the knife crowd is about as bad as the flashaholic crowd as far as the flavor of the month goes. Wha's hot today, ain't tomorrow, hence my (repeated ) suggestion to stick with simple, time tested steels.


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## george tichbourne (Jan 12, 2008)

In defense of 440C, I make a moose hunter in 440C heat treated, cryo treated and tempered to Rc 57. This blade will hold and edge long enough to dress a couple of moose....that is dress, skin, and quarter a couple of moose. For the city slickers imagine a small horse for size.

Kitchen knives typically have to be sharpened once per year.

It is a good AFFORDABLE steel for most uses.

If anyone knows where Trits are available we could include them in the handle area or glow in the dark powder mixed with epoxy.

All we need now for a prototype is a drawing then we can do a passaround thing with the proto for opinions.

George


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## RA40 (Jan 12, 2008)

Sigman has set-up some nice characteristics for this knife. 

440-C or ATS-34 may have fallen from flavor, however it is a common steel used in industry and getting a competent heat treat is not as challenging. 

So far we've seen a profile...what type of grind on these, traditional or a chisel? Also you may be able to spec additional features for those willing to option it up. 

Looking at this, my guess is that $135 is a comfortable range. If the maker is already implementing CNC, water jet...you may get that magical $100. (Provided you have the numbers.) Are you willing to have a machine made knife with a final hand assembly? Do you prefer 100% handmade?

Depending on the overall production, I'd get this finalized ASAP. Full time makers you may be looking at an August-Nov delivery at best. Part timers who can devote the hours for a 50+ project may be June. Hit 100+ this may overwhelm the un-aided single maker as just producing 100 knives a year is a lot of work. 

Once you get a finalized design, post a poll/vote on the specs and you'll be on your way. Have some makers in mind to approach.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 12, 2008)

No comments on the G10 scales I linked you guys to at SAR? I really like a recurve, something nice. I am not as concerned with price as I am with the final product.

Tim


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## Cypher (Jan 12, 2008)

I messed around some more.

I like this one but it doesn't say EDC to me. 






Plain drop point.





Did someone say tanto?





Drop point tanto w/ recurve?





Drop point tanto w/ belly.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 12, 2008)

Needs to be beefier, hollow grind recurve, rough grooved G10. I'm sorry, but if you are asking my opinion on those designs....they look like a paring knife.


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## RA40 (Jan 13, 2008)

It's more than just drawing, you'll have to cut a template and see how the basic size feels and develop some specs for it.

Some thoughts:

A thong hole 3/16-1/4" works well.

Corby type bolts over pins IMO are better at securing the scales in a tactical class knife.

How thick is the blade stock? 1/8" is ok for a smaller sub 7" knife but depending how you design that tip, 3/16" may work better. 

I'm not fond of pointy butts on a knife. I've done some and even rounding the edge, depending how you design the sheath, that may well wind up digging into the wearer. If the wearer doesn't have a healthy mid-section, no worries.

The drop point is the more useful of the designs you have. The tanto recurve that line doesn't work for me. Like most tantos with a shallow grind, I dunno how many makers will appreciate the recurve from an aesthetic and performance standpoint. 

Figuring out what bevel grind you want also defines the profile. A flat grind will work with all these but the tanto traditionally is only a partial grind. Hollow can be a partial but for ease, taking it up to the spline makes it less a symmetry issue, hence easier. Draw some bevels in there and see how it looks. If only a partial grind, the knife may seem chunky/heavy. That depends on how thick the stock is.


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## Bloodnut (Jan 13, 2008)

The have been some very good points put forth so far, also some that to *me* seem pretty far off the mark. I'll let ya'll figure out which is which. 

Methinks it's going to be awful difficult to design a knife by committee. The design elements that I prize, others may despise - knives are *that* personal. My suggestion to Gh66 who started this, is to pick a design that he thinks is good, locate a maker, get a price and then post to see how many want to get on board.


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## Zackerty (Jan 13, 2008)

Change of mind...


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## Ken_McE (Jan 13, 2008)

To make it CPF relevant it should produce enough light that you could (just barely) use it to walk down a dark trail (preferably with it closed or sheathed) This means either a spot with a couple of inset trasers or a watch battery and a three mm LED, probably layered onto one side of the handle.


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## schiesz (Jan 13, 2008)

In the latest set of Cypher drawings, I like the basic drop point, and i'd just make the thumb ramp on the back a bit steeper and longer. Its I nice design also because it gets the OAL to 6.5".

I think i'd change the back where the lanyard hole is, but not sure how yet. I'll have to think about that. 

That SAR knife has a cool design. I'd be interested to know how wide the sock would need to be for that (2.5-3.0"?) and what using that wide stock would do to the price. I'm not sure that I woud want to USE a design with that huge extended choil part, but i'd definately have to try it to be sure.

To the "CPF relevant" ideas, I would find a good place (or three) for narrow channels to mount trits. One on the back side of the handle for locating when in the sheath, and maybe one on each side of the back of the blade, along the same axis as the cutting edge.

Oh, and when we start talking sheaths, make an option to hold a PD/Mule/HDS sized light right next to the knife. Adding an actually LED into the knife seems far fetched to me, although if we had thick handles that were attached with screws, and had just enough space under them to mount a little lighthound keychain light, that might be pretty cool...

schiesz


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## GhostReaction (Jan 15, 2008)

schiesz, rock on bro! You speak of what I had in mind! 

-Drop point, plain edge
-thumb ramp
-CPM154 or S30V
- No lights on the knife itself! glow or tritium is fine.

I do like the idea of a sheath that could also have a light attached to it. 
But IMHO it would be better to attach smaller lights to it, maybe a single AAA. 
The light on the knife sheath should serve as a backup rather than a primary light.

Like you, I too dig SAR blades. :rock: 

By the way is there such thing as a blue + yellow swirl G10?


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## tensixteen (Jan 15, 2008)

Hello guys,

I'm new here, but this thread excites me. I have a folding knife design here for you guys to comment on. What do you think?..I'm looking at a 3" framelock here.











Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## Tessaiga (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi Nick, nice of you to drop by.... as well as your awesome folder designs....

Guys, Nick designs a folder that will fold properly, in 20 minutes flat on his laptop... 

I'm all for the idea of a CPF knife...


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## tensixteen (Jan 15, 2008)

A slight modification to better suit the idea of a CPF knife:
In the blade groove, perhaps tritium dials could be inserted to form "CPF" in Morse Code. What do you guys think?


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## Tessaiga (Jan 15, 2008)

Me likey the tritium idea, but it'll only last 10 years... 

Hey Nick, how about a flipper take on that design..


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## tensixteen (Jan 15, 2008)

Hey Tessaiga,

How does this look?





p.s: who are you?..haha...pm me can?...thanks!!


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## schiesz (Jan 15, 2008)

Wow, the folder design is pretty nice. Is there a builder watching that could make this folder? I am afraid the complexity that is added by making it a custom folder will be more than most people would be willing to pay for. Too many pieces will require custom fitting. I really like it, but i'm afraid its not going to work here. The morse code trits are pretty cool as well, but thats like over $100 in trits right?

I'm trying to come up with something to better fit the ideas of the OP. Beefier, shorter, and less "paring knife"-like. 

To the builders watching this thread, am I correct in thinking that the wider stock is going to raise the price quickly, or is this less of a big deal overall?

schiesz


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## schiesz (Jan 15, 2008)

GhostReaction said:


> I do like the idea of a sheath that could also have a light attached to it.
> But IMHO it would be better to attach smaller lights to it, maybe a single AAA.
> The light on the knife sheath should serve as a backup rather than a primary light.



Here was my original thinking on this; Put a pouch on the front of the sheath, like an old survival knife had the sharpening stone, for a Arc AAA or Fenix AAA sized light. But, we are talking most likely a kydex sheath, and i've never seen a pouch like this attached to kydex. So then I thought, ok, make it inline, same sized light.

But, in an in-line design like this, I suddenly don't want a AAA light, I want my primary. I'm thinking of when I am camping, and actually wearing the sheath around camp, it would be nice to have my good light right there next to it. 

Of course, all of these thoughts and assumptions are based upon my preference of lights and form factors, so they don't match everyone else...

Anyway, thats my thinking, and its worth exactly what you paid for it 

schiesz


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## tensixteen (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi folks,

I came up with a fixed blade variant of my folding knife design. What do you guys think of it?






Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## GhostReaction (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi Nick! nice of you to drop by.

Your design are nice! But like what have been said it doesnt look like its gonna be cheap. 

Remember bro this is CPF and majority of us here rather 'splurge' cash on lumen stuff. 

The trit on blade would be absolutely cool especially when you wave the blade around, imagine mini light saber! 
However do take into consideration of how tough will it stay on the blade when used for cutting chores. The glass tube tritium might even break if I attempt a tamashigiri. :nana:


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 15, 2008)

tensixteen said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I came up with a fixed blade variant of my folding knife design. What do you guys think of it?
> 
> ...



The design is pretty nice, getting closer. We need to keep the OAL @ 6" or less, and I want a kydex necker sheath.

I think this project is getting a little misunderstood, I am not necessarily looking for a "Cheap" knife. Many lights here on CPF are not in "everybody's" price range, I don't expect this knife will be either. I am looking for something with a little flair without going over the top. As far as trit slots, they could be incorporated. They would be left empty and added buy the potential buyer at a later date, many lights have empty slots. I am looking at a price range somewhere between $200 - $300, I don't think that is crazy. Good materials + Custom Knifemakers Time + nice design = $$. Sorry if this sounds crass, but I figured we better get on the same page.


Tim


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## tensixteen (Jan 15, 2008)

Variant 5: Necker

I reduced the guard so that it wouldn't snag on the kydex. What do you guys think? Also, i've added traction grooves on the thumbramp, as well as on the pinky guard for additional grip.

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 15, 2008)

I was hoping for something with an exotic handle, perhaps buffalo horn or giraffe bone? I liked the handle design on the previous design. Beef up the blade a little, make it look stockier. If it turns out that it is too out of bounds to be a necker, then be it.


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## schiesz (Jan 15, 2008)

Groundhog66 said:


> I think this project is getting a little misunderstood, I am not necessarily looking for a "Cheap" knife. Many lights here on CPF are not in "everybody's" price range, I don't expect this knife will be either. I am looking for something with a little flair without going over the top. As far as trit slots, they could be incorporated. They would be left empty and added buy the potential buyer at a later date, many lights have empty slots. I am looking at a price range somewhere between $200 - $300, I don't think that is crazy. Good materials + Custom Knifemakers Time + nice design = $$. Sorry if this sounds crass, but I figured we better get on the same page.
> 
> Tim



After re-reading the first post, I think I misunderstood the point of the OP.  When I saw "1st CPF blade" I thought of a knife that would be _somewhat _universally appealing to the crowd here. To make it an appealing "CPF knife" the cost must be a consideration. 

The idea here was to have the 1st knife designed by the knife builders on CPF, not to make a knife for everyone. That's a great idea, just not the one I thought it was. 

Please carry on, i'll try to stop bugging everyone with ways to make it more universally accepted and keep the costs down. 

schiesz


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## tensixteen (Jan 15, 2008)

Hey Groundhog,
How about this? basically it's the initial fixed blade design, with a skeletal frame, and handle slabs that could be mounted based on the user's preference. The skeletonized handles help to keep the blade light, and suitable for neck carry. As for the finger guard, it has to be reduced from the original design as it was too long, and would snag.

Lemme know what you think of this.







Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 15, 2008)

schiesz said:


> After re-reading the first post, I think I misunderstood the point of the OP.  When I saw "1st CPF blade" I thought of a knife that would be _somewhat _universally appealing to the crowd here. To make it an appealing "CPF knife" the cost must be a consideration.
> 
> The idea here was to have the 1st knife designed by the knife builders on CPF, not to make a knife for everyone. That's a great idea, just not the one I thought it was.
> 
> ...




No worries Schiesz:thumbsup:, just wanted to get my point across. Like I said, MOST "Custom" lights offered here on CPF are not in everyones budget.
:sigh:


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## GhostReaction (Jan 15, 2008)

Tim, do you have any particular knife in mind currently? 
By any maker or style? 

Hope you could post some pictures of some particular model.
I think that would help and we could move on from that direction.

What about loveless utilty hunter style? :nana:


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 15, 2008)

GhostReaction said:


> Tim, do you have any particular knife in mind currently?
> By any maker or style?
> 
> Hope you could post some pictures of some particular model.
> ...



If you read my posts in this thread, you will see that I have mentioned specific knives by specific makers. I got no response to my posts, they were more or less ignored.


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## Sigman (Jan 16, 2008)

Groundhog66 said:


> Is anyone interested in collaborating with me on a knife project, I think it would nice to see the 1st CPF blade. Yes, I am speaking to you makers out there....let's make something cool huh....
> Tim


Well I too am a bit confused (again? ). Title indeed says "Help me design a knife" - however in the text it speaks of "the 1st CPF blade".

Now if the title said "Help me design a knife for myself" I would understand GH is looking for more of a specific, personalized blade. However, if we are looking for a "CPF blade", then I'd say input designs from members would be respectfully considered and hopefully implemented as approved by the "group".

Perhaps we need a different thread for a "CPF Blade"? I too thought this was going to be a universally accepted utilitarian design. Trits, titanium, extinct turtle shell scales...guess I'm out of this one. :thinking: :shrug:

We all have different needs, applications, likes, dislikes.  Don't take this post wrong, I'm merely saying what a few have already said...I think there was some miscommunication in the 1st post which caused some confusion.


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## Cuso (Jan 16, 2008)

Sigman said:


> Well I too am a bit confused (again? ). Title indeed says "Help me design a knife" - however in the text it speaks of "the 1st CPF blade".
> 
> Now if the title said "Help me design a knife for myself" I would understand GH is looking for more of a specific, personalized blade. However, if we are looking for a "CPF blade", then I'd say input designs from members would be respectfully considered and hopefully implemented as approved by the "group".
> 
> ...


 Watching this one from the sidelines...Yes the thread got a bit carried away , by the CPF blade idea and got mixed with Hogs intentions for a custom made CPF themed blade.. Hog the kind of counseling you need for your blade won't be found here, you need to step into Bladeforums , Knifeforums or get in contact with a custom maker and express him your desires. The custom knife world is quite overwhelming and Im sure you will find what you seek. The 1st CPF blade is an awesome idea, and Im with Sigman on opening a separate thread for that one...


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## GhostReaction (Jan 16, 2008)

I m all go for a new thread on a CPF blade. 

Maybe that one we do a K.I.S.S blade (keep it super simple).

From the masses for the masses, with a budget constrain and design govern by majority votes.


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## jch79 (Jan 16, 2008)

GhostReaction said:


> I m all go for a new thread on a CPF blade. Maybe that one we do a K.I.S.S blade (keep it super simple).


+1 - and KISS as long as that means it can still be a folder! 



GhostReaction said:


> From the masses for the masses, with a budget constrain and design govern by majority votes.


If it's for the masses, keeping the blade length at 2.95" would be good, for states that have 3" blade length laws. :shrug:

:wave: john


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 16, 2008)

I am totally up for CLOSING this thread and allowing you "The Masses" to take this on yourself. I was *NEVER* looking for a simple knife that you can buy online anywhere, therefore I was not looking a a $100 limit. As of NOW, I am *COMPLETELY* finished with this thread. You guys have seemed to take something I was trying to do on a *VERY limited quantity*, and make it into a "cheap" knife that is available to every CPF'er that want's one. Well have at it guys, knock yourself out. I lost total control of MY thread LONG AGO. But I suggest the first thing you do, is ask your maker is he is willing to make the quantity you are looking for.......and how long it will take to complete the batch.

Good luck with your venture.....Mods PLEASE close MY thread to allow "The Masses" to start a new one.

Thank you.


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## Unforgiven (Jan 17, 2008)

To any and all wishing to continue the planning of the CPF blade. Please feel free to start one thread and copy your ideas from this original one. :thumbsup:


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