# Best 16340??



## N/Apower (Feb 2, 2014)

I am looking for a cr123 size battery.
I need it to power a 2 amp project at greater than 3v. Likely 3.5 to 4.5v.
I don't care about anything but reliability.
In order of importance...

Self discharge rate being low!
Won't blow up or shut off randomly or leak etc.
Runtime
Everything else

What is the best product on the market and if it is rechargeable. ..charger too. I know very little about rechargeable batteries and would like to stay with cr123a primary but have to run something else due to power demands vs. Space. I want the cr123a of this world, as it were, performance wise but don't even know where to start.


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## Overclocker (Feb 2, 2014)

well there's no japanese/korean 16340 so it's all hit and miss

2A is rather high for ICR 16340 so you're left with IMR which has an even lower capacity compared to the already low capacity of ICR cells

so as you'll see there aren't any really good options for 16340. whereas on the 14500 side we have the excellent Sanyo 14500 at 840mah


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## N/Apower (Feb 2, 2014)

It must be cr123a size interchangeable. I know zip about this topic.


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## HKJ (Feb 2, 2014)

N/Apower said:


> It must be cr123a size interchangeable. I know zip about this topic.



You can compare performance of batteries here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonSmallcomparator.php

More info about CR123 and rechargeables here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?366975


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## N/Apower (Feb 2, 2014)

HKJ said:


> You can compare performance of batteries here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonSmallcomparator.php
> 
> More info about CR123 and rechargeables here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?366975


I know aw imr 16340 has the power. That's been proven via t&e by Mike pannone and others. I guess I'm looking for the most reliable and durable and best battery of that ilk.


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## torukmakto4 (Feb 3, 2014)

IMR/high current cells are the way to go.

If you want reliability and durability you would be best served by not running a LiCo 16340 cell hard with 2 amps continuous.

If you don't want cells "randomly shutting off" and must have lowest possible self-discharge rate, you do not want a protected cell. For the least chance of fitment hassles, you also want a bare cell, not a protected one with a PCB and positive strip making it bigger. Another point for high current cells since all of those are bare cells or at most have a non-integral top button added.

With the high minimum voltage required at 2A, the high current cell may give up more usable capacity than a LiCo cell, particularly a protected LiCo cell, despite being of lower nominal capacity at a low test current.

Safety is another point for IMR, arguably.


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## Tmack (Feb 3, 2014)

I like efest IMR 16340, and the nitecore intelecharger (i4) I use them on my high power lasers and they give plenty of power, and runtime isn't terrible either.


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## Colonel Sanders (Feb 3, 2014)

I've tried and tested my share of 16340s and for a 2a application I'd look no further than the venerable AW IMR16340.


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## RobertMM (Feb 5, 2014)

I've been running a pair of IMR 16340 AW brand for quite a while now in a SF G2 with P90, seems to be holding up well. I also use them in a LX2. Two weeks ago I bought a pair of Efest iMR to abuse and they seem decent enough too. haven't had a lot of cycles on them yet though.


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## N/Apower (Feb 5, 2014)

How long will an AW IMR 16340 hold its charge sitting on the shelf/in the light long-term? As long as a CR123a? How well do they handle hot/cold temperature extremes as compared to CR123a? If I run the light until it falls out of regulation, and then recharge the battery, will I damage it, or should I stop running it sooner, or what's the deal there? Are they more or less prone to leak than a CR123a?

Thanks all!


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## Stockhouse13 (Feb 5, 2014)

Rechargeable batteries, will never hold their charge like a primary in long term storage.. Plus, they really need to be babied with certain charge levels if being stored!!! lol. So, if you are using your light daily than a protected rechargeable is a good idea. Moreover, regchargable batteries usually lose potency around the 3 year mark anyway vs a 123 primary like Surefire with a shelflife of 10 yrs. So, if you are heavy light user than look at getting rechargeables. 

Also, like a 123primary battery, 16340's shouldn't leak. 

They dont handle the cold as well at 123 primaries from what others have stated over the years here.

As an aside, I am using a 10 yr old surefire 123 in my G2 with zero issues. 

Hope this helps you with a solution.


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## N/Apower (Feb 5, 2014)

Stockhouse13 said:


> Rechargeable batteries, will never hold their charge like a primary in long term storage.. Plus, they really need to be babied with certain charge levels if being stored!!! lol. So, if you are using your light daily than a protected rechargeable is a good idea. Moreover, regchargable batteries usually lose potency around the 3 year mark anyway vs a 123 primary like Surefire with a shelflife of 10 yrs. So, if you are heavy light user than look at getting rechargeables.
> 
> Also, like a 123primary battery, 16340's shouldn't leak.
> 
> ...



Thanks! Can you tell me more about storage? This will power a weapon light, so it may NOT see usage at night for some months. It will just live in there. How do I maintain these batteries on the shelf? In the light itself? What kind of rotation schedule/charge schedule/do they NEED to be used?

I know zip about this topic, so don't worry about insulting me with anything "basic".

How long should a fully charged one hold its charge for, on the shelf?


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## StorminMatt (Feb 5, 2014)

Depending on your voltage needs, you could also get an IFR RCR123A. Voltage is lower at 3.2V. But, unlike ICR and IMR, this doesn't drop during discharge. If this voltage will work for you (and it often works better than a higher voltage battery as a replacement for 3.0V primaries) and you don't need very high capacity (say, 400-600mAH), IFR would be the way to go. Compared to virtually everything else out there, it's solid as a rock. It won't leak, explode, or self discharge quickly. It's also tolerant of high current output and lasts a long, long, long time compared to ICR or IFR. And perhaps the very best IFR RCR123A is K2 Energy. But given the robustness of the chemistry, it would be hard to go wrong with any other manufacturer.


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## N/Apower (Feb 5, 2014)

StorminMatt said:


> Depending on your voltage needs, you could also get an IFR RCR123A. Voltage is lower at 3.2V. But, unlike ICR and IMR, this doesn't drop during discharge. If this voltage will work for you (and it often works better than a higher voltage battery as a replacement for 3.0V primaries) and you don't need very high capacity (say, 400-600mAH), IFR would be the way to go. Compared to virtually everything else out there, it's solid as a rock. It won't leak, explode, or self discharge quickly. It's also tolerant of high current output and lasts a long, long, long time compared to ICR or IFR. And perhaps the very best IFR RCR123A is K2 Energy. But given the robustness of the chemistry, it would be hard to go wrong with any other manufacturer.



Huge thanks!
I will heck to see if this voltage will work. How bad would it "sag" at 1.8-2.0A discharge? What would it likely be putting out after 15 minutes of use at 1.8-2.0A?

Also, how does it perform regarding:

-Shelf-life/self discharge rate (I know a CR123a is about 1% per year)
-If I drain it DEAD, is it hurt?


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## coloradogps (Feb 5, 2014)

AW IMR16340


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## N/Apower (Feb 5, 2014)

I checked, 3.2V won't cut it. That is the cut point, basically.


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## Colonel Sanders (Feb 5, 2014)

See posts #8, 9, & 15. That's your best bet. :thumbsup:


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## Chodes (Feb 5, 2014)

AW IMR16340 - proven track record.
Self discharge is low, these cells really convenient with charger with adjustable current (eg hobby charger).
You can charge fast so any self discharge can be topped back up fast.
I say self discharge irrelevant anyway. 2 x IMR 16340, using 7.4V x 0.55Ah = 4.07 watt-hours.
1 x 18650 3000mAh has 11.1 watt-hours - ie over 2 times power of 2 IMR16340s.

So the choice of 16340 x 2 over 18650 is such a huge sacrifice in stored energy, therefore run time, some self discharge reduces run time far less than cell choice.

Simple and convenient too is an 18650 light with linear driver. Get a decent run time regulated, then further run time with light out of regulation, dimming, providing indication of low voltage as well as useful light. Low voltage protection cct on driver and or cell provide further protection. Single cell light obviously not possible to reverse charge a cell so added safety.


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## N/Apower (Feb 5, 2014)

Chodes said:


> AW IMR16340 - proven track record.
> Self discharge is low, these cells really convenient with charger with adjustable current (eg hobby charger).
> You can charge fast so any self discharge can be topped back up fast.
> I say self discharge irrelevant anyway. 2 x IMR 16340, using 7.4V x 0.55Ah = 4.07 watt-hours.
> ...



What is the self-discharge rate in percent per year for an AW 16340? My application is only physically capable of holding one 16340.


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## Colonel Sanders (Feb 6, 2014)

I've never actually tested a cell sitting for a whole year but I can tell you from experience that their self discharge is very low. I'd guess not more than 3-5% a year or so and almost certainly not more than 10%. When I check the voltage on a cell that has sat for awhile it typically reads right about where I left it.

I think I'll test this. I'll take a brand new cell, cycle it about 5 times top to bottom, do a capacity check, re-charge, check rested voltage, and then check the voltage and capacity one year later....might have to set my phone to remind me! 

*THE BIGGER QUESTION IS*....how much parasitic drain does the light the cell will be stored in have? That could kill any cell.


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## Colonel Sanders (Feb 6, 2014)

Nevermind about the test. It's already been done and the results are exactly what I would have expected...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?115206-Li-Ion-Self-Discharge-Rate-Test


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## Chodes (Feb 6, 2014)

HKJ's review of AW IMR16340:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?380135-Best-16340&p=4375077#post4375077

For you, convenient findings: "The battery works fine up to 2A, but is not that impressive with a 3A load"


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## Tmack (Feb 6, 2014)

Does a basic light with no extra functions, have the potential to have a parasitic drain?


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## N/Apower (Feb 7, 2014)

Okay, so what I have learned so far:

-Even though it's made in China, the AW IMR 16340 is a quality product.
-It will function in the same ambient temps as a CR123a Primary
-It will lose 3-5% of its capacity per year, if left fully charged sitting in my weapon light or on the shelf.
-If I use it, I must re-charge it ASAP or it could be damaged.


Is the above accurate?


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## HKJ (Feb 7, 2014)

N/Apower said:


> Okay, so what I have learned so far:
> 
> -It will function in the same ambient temps as a CR123a Primary



No, CR123a works much better in cold weater.




N/Apower said:


> -If I use it, I must re-charge it ASAP or it could be damaged.



Only if you run it down, a half charge battery has better lifetime than a fully charged battery.


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## N/Apower (Feb 7, 2014)

HKJ said:


> No, CR123a works much better in cold weater.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How cold is cold? Last time I went where I'm going to be taking this setup, it was 13*F.


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## HKJ (Feb 7, 2014)

N/Apower said:


> How cold is cold? Last time I went where I'm going to be taking this setup, it was 13*F.



LiIon looses capacity and ability to supply high current when it is below 20C.

Check the datasheet for Panasonic 1300mAh here: http://www.industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf2/ACI4000/ACI4000CE25.pdf


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## N/Apower (Feb 7, 2014)

HKJ said:


> LiIon looses capacity and ability to supply high current when it is below 20C.
> 
> Check the datasheet for Panasonic 1300mAh here: http://www.industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf2/ACI4000/ACI4000CE25.pdf



Wow. Anything cooler than room temp looks bad. If my light has a cut-off input voltage of 3.4V, then it won't even work in the temperatures I was in that night. However, my CR123 lights were working fine (a Nailbender P60, a Surefire X300U pistol light, and a Surefire M600U weapon light). According to the CR123 graphs, they should have had trouble, too.


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