# Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 MP3 Player Sucks!!!



## BruiseLee (Jun 1, 2003)

I bought a Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 MP3 player. It's a 20 gb hard drive based MP3 player. I paid over $300 for it.

I want to return it.

It has the absolutely worst interface of ANYTHING I've ever used. Some of the most basic functions are virtually impossible to perform.

Want to just turn it on and hear some mp3's? You can't. You can play one song. Then you have to go thru multiple keypresses to select another song. Try that while driving your car. Sure, you can use the shuffle function. Problem is, it picks like 12 songs and plays em over and over. Even though I have thousands of mp3's on the drive.

I've had to reboot mine like 200 times? And I've only had it 2 months? Sometime, I can't even turn it on without removing and replacing the battery. Don't ask.

There are multiple levels of the interface that look the same. But you can only perform certain functions at certain levels. Confusing as hell.

The buttons to fast forward, reverse, and skip forward and back are the same. So, if you want to fast forward a bit, and you don't hold the button down long enough, you will go to another track. At least, I think you will. The thing is so damm confusing, and I have a Masters Degree and worked with computers for a major university....

It's very difficult to delete recordings. The reason for that is on recordings, you cant name a song. You just get a time stamp like a dos file. Useless since you can't set a real time clock like on a PC, and your system crashes daily. So, it's easy to delete, you just don't know what the hell you are deleting. Retarded interface asks you if you want to delete a song, where it should say "Delete Dixie Chicks?" or something to that effect.

The thing has actually duplicated files for no reason. That's right, it copied 'em for no reason.

The moronic software likes to double the subdirectories you make. For example, I made a subdirectory or folder for my Beatles mp3's named "The Beatles." Ok, I use the scroll wheel to go to music library, click, then artists, then Beatles. Ok if I click on Beatles, then open, do I see my Beatles mp3's? No! I see another subdirectory called Beatles. It's like using Windows Explorer to click on the Windows subdirectory, have no files in that folder, then have to click down another level to another subdirectory called Windows. It's totally stupid, a waste, inefficient, maddening,....

Using the car power adapter causes the player to lock up. Not everytime, not immediately. But enough that I don't use it, I just rely on charging my player at home and running off the batteries. I find if I try to use the power adapter, the player will crash in about 30 minutes. Scratch that last, tonight the power died so I used the cigarette lighter adapter. After about 3 minutes, the player locked up. I reset with the paper clip, same thing. Reset a third time, same thing. Who ever heard of a device that crashes when you take it off battery power!?! POS!!!

Oh, some songs I want to delete I can't, because the player crashes. I'm screwed there, no solution.

It does have good points, however. Sound quality is excellent. It's easy to record with the player from any audio source. And battery life is excellent. I think I can run the thing for 7 hours on 1 battery, and it can take two. Well, now the battery life has fallen down to about 5 hours after some use, sigh....

I wouldn't recommend this thing to Sadaam Hussein. Did I mention I was supposed to get a $50 rebate, too, which was never sent! That for over $300 dollars Creative was so cheap you get NO printed manual of any kind - just a PDF file on the CD. And that it come with NOTHING to carry it in at all?

Absolutely the worst interface of anything I have ever seen. I'm amazed any company could release a product this bad.

I just discovered another major flaw with the Nomad 3. Summer has finally come to Los Angeles, and it's hot outside! Yesterday it was in the high 90's where I live. The point is, it got so hot in my car that the Jukebox would boot up, maybe run for 5 seconds, then turn itself off again! This has happened again and again. Once the car cools down, the Junkbox, er, Jukebox will work normally. If you live in a place where it really gets hot, like Las Vegas or Arizona, this high tech wonder would be virtually worthless.

Bruise


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## James S (Jun 1, 2003)

Wow, thats a shame for what is hawked as a premium product! I recently got a little early birthday credit and got myself one of these:







It's a little bit more expensive, but it actually works. This is a very nice piece of gear. I highly recommend it! And the new ones have a USB2 in addition to a firewire interface for our PC friends /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eBay the other thing and put the money towards one of those!


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## logicnerd411 (Jun 1, 2003)

I have to admit, I hate Apple, but the only product that is actually good IMO is their iPod. I need one...

Dan


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## paulr (Jun 1, 2003)

The NJB3's most interesting feature is it can record. If you don't need that, get a different unit (e.g. iPod).


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## James S (Jun 1, 2003)

The latest iPods have a record option in their debug menu. Right now it's totally useless, you can only record into memory for something like 6 seconds. Uses the headphones as a mic in the case of the test.

While they don't record, that proves that the hardware is all setup to do it and that we're just a firmware update away from recording capability! There is no proof that Apple will decide to actually do it. But they have already gone to the trouble to make the hardware work. I personally expect the next software update to enable it on the iPod.


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## paulr (Jun 1, 2003)

There are a bunch of mp3 players that can record low quality voice samples for note taking and stuff like that. The NJB3 is a high quality music recorder with good A/D converters. I don't think Apple would have put hardware like that into the iPod and then not enabled it or advertised it. Also, the NJB3 can record and play back uncompressed (PCM) samples. The iPod is MP3/AAC only. Maybe they'll fix that in a future firmware release, if they do enable recording (it's not so important unless you're recording with the device).


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## James S (Jun 1, 2003)

paulr, you can look up the hardware in the new iPods (don't be confused by reading sites referencing the old design as it most certainly did not have this capability) but the A/D converter in the new iPod is fully capable of CD quality encoding and the encoding chip is fully capable of realtime mp3 encoding of it to disk. You'll have to google ipod take apart sites as Apple doesn't advertize what the chips are inside, but folks have already taken these apart and figured out whats in there.

Apple may very well have put that into the hardware with the expectation of enabling it with a future firmware update. You're right they wouldn't have done it unless they planned to use it. But rather than wait until the firmware is complete, they released the hardware early.

Certainly, don't buy one at this point on my say so that I EXPECT them to do it. They may never do it for many different reasons, but the fact that they used these chips and have a test for them in the firmware now leads me to believe that they are planning to use it.

I didn't buy mine for recording, I bought it mostly for playback in my car and audible.com audiobooks while working out or riding my bike or something. It works beautifully for that. But I will certainly take advantage of the recording when they add it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I've been chatting with some companies that make 3rd party prodducts for the iPod. The connection specs (there is a serial line for the remote control for example that can be used for much more than just that) are not published, you have to get Apple's blessing for whatever project you're working on before they will give you the info you need to develop extra products for it at that level. The point is that they are building it up to be the best MP3 PLAYER right now. They may be delaying recording to keep it from confusing their marketing or something stupid like that. But they are quite invested in it I would think


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## LEDagent (Jun 2, 2003)

If you guys want to do some serious portable live recording, invest your money on a minidisc player/recorder and a nice microphone. That's what i did and i am getting CD quality recordings. I dance filipino folk dance and we needed some new music to dance to; i gathered our musicians, setup my stereo mic and minidisc and cut the first recording to CD without modification...it's that good (and easy). There are no A/D converters, line converters or battery boxes...just plug and play (or record).

BruiceLee, thanks for the review of your Creative Jukebox 3. I was looking for another MP3 player to replace my RioVolt SP250 CD/MP3 player...i guess i won't be spending my money on a Jukebox 3, or even the new Jukebox Zen for that matter. The Zen looks like it uses the same interface as the other units. Besides, it looks so much like an ipod that i might as well just by the ipod. I tried one and i liked it.

I wanted to move on to a hard-disc based mp3 player because 1) sorting and burning 200 songs per disc gets a little tiring. Believe it or not, but 200 songs just ain't enoegh for me on one disc. I think 5,000 songs on one hard-disc would suffice. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

2) memory based mp3 players are very limited in space and getting an mp3 player with even 256Mb will cost you a lot of money...you might as well save up a little more for a hard-disc based unit.

Anyway...thanks for the review.


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## LEDagent (Jun 2, 2003)

P.S. there's a 10GB iPod for windows on eBay going for $250.


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## GeoffChan (Jun 2, 2003)

wow, i'm reading this thread and a 30gb Ipod comes to my office door. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif Damn shame that it isn't for me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif

Geoff


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## LEDagent (Jun 2, 2003)

30Gb?! I don't even have 30Gb of music OR information on my computer. That's sweet!


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## BruiseLee (Jun 2, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*LEDagent said:*
BruiceLee, thanks for the review of your Creative Jukebox 3. I was looking for another MP3 player to replace my RioVolt SP250 CD/MP3 player...i guess i won't be spending my money on a Jukebox 3, or even the new Jukebox Zen for that matter. The Zen looks like it uses the same interface as the other units. Besides, it looks so much like an ipod that i might as well just by the ipod. I tried one and i liked it.

Anyway...thanks for the review. 

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifYour welcome! I definitely don't think you will regret spending the extra money for an I-Pod. If you don't like it, I know a guy who would be willing to trade you his Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 for it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Should be able to give you a mini-review of the Creative Zen in a few weeks. This guy I know ordered one, despite my warnings. Who knows, maybe it will be good, but I wouldn't bet money on it. I'll let you know what he thinks of it once he gets it.

I am convinced the guy who writes the software for the Nomad is a relative of the owner. It's the only possible explaination....

I'm glad I was able to save someone a few hundred bucks and A LOT OF FRUSTRATION.

Bruise


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## Rothrandir (Jun 2, 2003)

i have the archos studio 20

it is really nice, with 20gigs or mp3 space, and it doubles as a hard drive. firmware upgradable too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

it was a gift from my uncle several years ago...if i were to purchase myself, i would have gotten the recorder to take advantage of recording, usb2, and *doom* (some hackers make a doom download for it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif )

browsing the archos site will show you lots of really wierd/cool stuff!


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## James S (Jun 2, 2003)

I just used up a few hundred meg on my iPod to install a bootable system on it. Now THATS cool! It will operate like a battery powered firewire/usb2 drive.

I've not needed a seperate boot disk for anything in the last few years, but it's worth the space to have it with me if it's ever needed for repairs...

In reading what Steve Jobs had to say about these things, he doesn't seem to think that the screens on these units are large enough to make it worth while to play movies on. However, he did say that they would make excellent delivery devices to other things. Meaning that you probably won't get the ability to play movies on your iPod in the future, but that it probably will get an SVideo out plug... (not these units obviously, they don't have the hardware necessary but future versions might get that ability)

I still think it would be neat to play movies on the little screen, but he's right that beyond the wow factor it's of little practical every day use. Unless you want to download your daily news and watch it on the bus or something /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## GJW (Jun 2, 2003)

Does anyone else use their Pocket PC to play music?
These dedicated players seem like such a waste when the Pocket PCs can do the same job PLUS.


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## paulr (Jun 2, 2003)

Using a pocket PC to play music isn't that great because the batteries drain after just an hour or so. Also, you have to use very expensive flash cards or a microdrive to hold the music. I'm sorry but a pocket PC cannot do the same job as a 30 GB iPod.


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## LEDagent (Jun 3, 2003)

I have thought about using a PDA for music purposes but, like paulr said, it can get very expensive. i think you can get a maximum of 5 hours on a current PDA battery. Microdrives are expensive, and if you want to compete with hard-drive based mp3 players, you would have to get at least a 1GB microdrive, that can easily run 300-400 dollars, but if you can only get 5 hours of music on the battery, then what's the point of storing 24 hours of music?

Of course, if you actually USE the PDA, then this would be fine, but for 200 dollars, i say skip the memory cards and buy yourself another mp3 unit, like an ipod. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## James S (Jun 3, 2003)

The iPod has some  PDA functions built in to it. When I sync my music, it also syncs all my contacts in my address book, my calendar and todo list as well as a folder of "notes" which are just small text files that you can read on the screen. This is really useful as I've got all kinds of notes and info in there now. This covers probably 75% of what I would use a PDA for. You can't enter info into the iPod, it can only display it. It even plays solitaire /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I'm not sure about syncing that stuff to a PC. The only part that would need special software though is the calendar. The address book is just a vCard stack copied into the address book folder on it's built in drive, so any PC app that could export vCards will work with it and the notes are just text files, so they will work also even without the fancy Apple software.


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## LEDagent (Jun 3, 2003)

OH SHoot! I just remembered that most of my archived CDs are converted to the WMA format. I personally think that WMA sounds better than MP3, also, Windows Media Player 9.0 makes it so easy to just rip CDs into WMA format. 

I don't think the iPod can play WMA...unless there's a hack or upgrade for it. darn...it was such a nice player too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


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## James S (Jun 3, 2003)

Nope, no WMA. MP3 is questionable quality. AAC though, which is what iTunes rips to by default now, is far better than MP3. I can make a 128k AAC file that is ALMOST indistinguishable from the source CD. I've actually been re-ripping ALL my CD's to AAC format and throwing away the MP3's they sound SO much better!

It supports various WAV formats, AIFF and MP3 and VBRMP3 but no WMA.

AAC is the audio encoding format from mpeg4 I believe.


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## LEDagent (Jun 3, 2003)

James, are there any portable audio players that support the AAC format? I'd like to stick with the WMA format as much as possible because there are a few car audio head units that support both mp3 and WMA. 

I've never heard of AAC, i think i'll need to do some research on it. THanks!


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## James S (Jun 3, 2003)

LEDagent. I don't think there are any other ones that support it at the moment. Also further reading shows that it's not supported on windows yet as they don't have a plugin for music match that can play it yet. Like I said, it's the audio encoding portion of mpeg4 and I think one of the same encodings that are used on some DVD's, but I could be getting that confused.

I've heard WMA music, it sounds good, better than MP3's but I haven't done a side by side comparison with AAC files yet. I can definitely tell you that AAC blows away MP3 at anything less than 256k.

I originally had an MP3 car CD player, but it didn't work all that great cause it was bouncing around in the car. Now I just plug in my iPod into the stereo and I'm rocking all the way there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

The decoding portions of the mpeg4 software is all free, so anyone that wants to CAN add it in, it's only the encoders that are subject to licensing and that may cause some pause in accepting it in other software. But you'll have a windows plugin for musicmatch in the very near future as Apple is writing it so that you can use their music store which only delivers AAC files.


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## GeoffChan (Jun 3, 2003)

James, have you got yourself one of these things for your car?







http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/itrip/

Geoff


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## James S (Jun 3, 2003)

Hi Geoffchan! Nope, not yet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Quite a while back I purchased a transmitter for the car that goes inline with the radio antenna. You turn it on and it blocks all other signals for a good strong and clear signal. Well, finally purchasing my iPod got me motivated to actually do it so I've not just got a single switch and plug on my dash that I plug my iPod into. It works GREAT, very clear and good sound.

Not as much fun outside of the car though. I've heard that people with those are trying to put themselves on the radio in restaurants and such /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So I may need one at some point...


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## BruiseLee (Jun 4, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*LEDagent said:*
OH SHoot! I just remembered that most of my archived CDs are converted to the WMA format. I personally think that WMA sounds better than MP3, also, Windows Media Player 9.0 makes it so easy to just rip CDs into WMA format. 

I don't think the iPod can play WMA...unless there's a hack or upgrade for it. darn...it was such a nice player too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, the Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 can handle WMA. I've only messed around recording some radio shows with, so can't honestly tell you how it compares to MP3. Like I said, its a shame the software and interface of the Nomad is so bad, because I'm convinced the hardware is good. But operating the thing is about as fun as being Dustin Hoffman in the dentist chair in The Marathon Man.

Bruise


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## GJW (Jun 4, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*paulr said:*
Using a pocket PC to play music isn't that great because the batteries drain after just an hour or so. Also, you have to use very expensive flash cards or a microdrive to hold the music. I'm sorry but a pocket PC cannot do the same job as a 30 GB iPod. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it can't hold 30 GB but my Pocket PC can hold 8 complete albums (WMA or MP3) on one 128MB SD card ($30).
I can't even imagine the need for carrying 30 GB of music.
Combine that with the ability to watch movies, read novels, play games, edit Word Documents, calc spread sheets, and carry around the complete SureFire catalog and it seems like a much better deal to me.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
And when I shut off the display the music can play for about 6 hours and recharges in about 1/2 hour via wall socket, car adapter, or USB port.


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## DLG (Jun 7, 2003)

Got the iPod for son's graduation. He and ALL of his friends love it. Also got a firewire PCI card for the PC. Works fine and its much faster than USB 1.x. I hear that USB 2 is coming but for 16 bucks the f/w card was worth it.

BTW, our iMAC with iTunes v4 works "smoother" than Jukebox that comes w/ the iPod. Quite a bit faster too.


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## LEDagent (Jun 7, 2003)

Hmmm...I'm waiting on BruiceLee's mini-review on the Nomad Zen. I'm really looking for a player that can play WMA files as well. 

GJW,
[ QUOTE ]
Combine that with the ability to watch movies, read novels, play games, edit Word Documents, calc spread sheets, and carry around the complete SureFire catalog and it seems like a much better deal to me.[/qoute]

Well...those are pluses too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I don't have the need for a PDA right now, and my tastes are really for music devices, but, when i have extra cash to spend, i might invest in a PDA.


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## BruiseLee (Jun 11, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*LEDagent said:*
Hmmm...I'm waiting on BruiceLee's mini-review on the Nomad Zen. I'm really looking for a player that can play WMA files as well. 

GJW

[/ QUOTE ]
My friend who ordered the Zen is still waiting for it to be delivered. He bought it on sale at Amazon.com, and apparently there was quite a backlog of orders. As soon as he gets it, I'll be sure to post a mini-review.

Bruise


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## tattoou2 (Jun 11, 2003)

I own both a Nomad Zen and my wife owns an Ipod (Windows version). Both are well-made, easy navigation, great sound! I feel the included software for both units is adequate, but nothing to rave about. There are third-party software packages out there for all if not most of the Nomad units which are much more functional and user-friendly than the supplied software (NotMad is one of them).


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## LEDagent (Jun 25, 2003)

I was able to hold the new iPod 10gb in my hands at a local computer store. BOY is this unit nice! Fortunately, the Nomad Zen was right next to it as well so i was able to get a feel for both of the units. 

The Nomad Zen is a nice unit and is priced very nice for a 20Gb drive. That's about where the pluses end for the Nomad Zen. The navigation system is nowhere near as easy as the iPod's and the display on the Zen is harder to see. The Zen is a bit larger than the iPod and the navigation functions are on the side of the player, which i found very inconvenient, especially if i were too use it in the car. 

Luckly, the display case had a Klipse speaker system set up for the mp3 players, so i was able to hear the differences between the two as well. The quality, as far as i can tell are ALMOST identical, with the iPod having a slightly brighter and fuller sound - which i like. The biggest upset about the Zen was it's maximum volume. With the ESP off, the maximum volume is almost half of iPod's maximum volume...it was sad. That pretty much did it for me, i hate players that cannot pump out a decent amount of volume. When units like these don't have a line-out, a louder headphone jack is alwasy a plus. 

The iPod, is lighter, SLIMMER, sounds better, more convenient, and looks better than the Zen - so far its only real competition. 

So...anyone selling a 10Gb iPod under $250? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

James S,
At the moment, i can only afford the 10Gb unit. I would rather much prefer the 15Gb unit because i can't use the WMA format, which means larger files in the Mp3 format.

Your earlier posts discussed the use of the AAC format. Can you rip CDs to the AAC format using a Windows PC? Since i can't use WMA I want to squeeze every megabyte out of the iPod. Also, does your CD ripper automatically tag the AAC file?

Lastly, how does the iPod categorize the music? On my CD/MP3 player, i have been so use to NOT using TAG files and just using the regular file names. I would make seperate folders per CD and number and name the individual tracks within those folders. The Windows Media Player CD ripper automatically does this. How easy is it to categorize your music on your iPod?

I think i'm going to buy one VERY soon. If there is anything i love more than flashlights its, God....and then music. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## GeoffChan (Jun 25, 2003)

Hi Lawrence,

Currently there isn't any AAC converters on the PC side. When someone brings that out PC users will be able to play aac endcoded files.

Geoff


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## itsme1234 (Jun 25, 2003)

That's not true. There are quite a few converters; including one plugin for Nero and 5+ plugins for winamp.

[ QUOTE ]
*GeoffChan said:*
Hi Lawrence,

Currently there isn't any AAC converters on the PC side. When someone brings that out PC users will be able to play aac endcoded files.

Geoff 

[/ QUOTE ]


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## BruiseLee (Jun 25, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*LEDagent said:*
Hmmm...I'm waiting on BruiceLee's mini-review on the Nomad Zen. I'm really looking for a player that can play WMA files as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, my friend finally received his Zen. I asked him to write a review for you guys, but true to his lazy nature, this document remains unwritten.

I must say my friend liked his Zen quite a bit. I believe the operating system of the Zen is different than that of my Nomad 3. He says he has no problem operating the Zen! File transfers are pretty fast even via regular USB. Sound quality is excellent. He is very happy with the Zen overall except for 2 things.

One, the backlight did not work as shipped from the factory! He spoke with Creative tech support, and the thing is now in the mail being shipped back! That sucks, 'cause my friend really liked it!

Two, he's not sure how to replace the batteries in this thing. Apparently, it's not a simple matter of popping out some AA's or AAA with this baby. Shouldn't be a problem until later on, though.

Still no written manual, either, just a PDF file on a CD. Cheap!!! Shame on you, Creative!!!

Still, sounds like if you don't need to record, the Zen may be worth a look.

Bruise


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