# Night Stick flashlight.



## JonSidneyB (Jul 28, 2001)

I think it was in the middle 80's. A flashlight started appearing in some catalogs that used 7 AA batteries. It had extra thick case walls. They claimed that maglights with D and C cell batteries could not be made thick enough for true night stick duty since the light would be too thick to handle. They went with AA so that they could really beef up the Walls. Does anyone know what this light was, who made it, and what happened to the company. My thinking is that perhaps the body of the light could handle it but the bulb would have taken a beating from the shock. Todays led might fare better.


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## WillnTex (Jul 28, 2001)

I seem to recall Cold Steel having that in the Special Projects catalog. I have not scene it since.


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## Joe Talmadge (Jul 28, 2001)

Cold Steel sold it as "The Brute". They later dropped it, but some other company, I think it was US Cavalry, picked it up but changed the name. In some ways, it was a pretty cool flashlight: thick-walled and nicely heavy, but much thinner than a Maglite C-cell, so it was much easier to make the transition from (say) kamagong or bahi sticks to the flashlight. It seemed like a seriously good fighting flashlight. It was also very bright -- 7-AA brings you into 60+ lumens easily, by my reckoning.

The first one I received was DOA, and then next one went belly-up after a few years. I'm guessing both Cold Steel and US Cavalry eventually figured out they had too high of a return rate and dropped the product, but that is purely a guess. 


Joe


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## JonSidneyB (Jul 28, 2001)

If some one would make something similar today, I would love to have one. If it could handle the shock, maybe an incandesent would be ok. If it couln't maybe an led but it might need something to keep it from being overdriven.


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## WillnTex (Jul 28, 2001)

If you want the light and the baton combo you might check out the ASP expandable baton with the ASP Triad light. Its a 6 volt light that connects to the back of the baton. Where the light normally would have a rear switch there is a metal tube that connects the baton and the light with a button on the side. The light with the connector are ASP part number 83007


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## JonSidneyB (Jul 29, 2001)

have seen it, not really interested in the Asp product, liked the looks of the unit mentioned above.


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## Velcro (Jul 29, 2001)

Does anyone have a picture of The Brute? Is (was) it made of aluminum or steel?

Off-Topic: Can anyone tell me what the term "night stick" means? I know police batons are called that way sometimes, but I've also seen batons that are called "day stick". What is the difference between these two? Is the night stick intended for use after 0:00 AM and the daystick after 12:00 PM?







Greetings,
Velcro


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## Joe Talmadge (Jul 29, 2001)

The Brute was aluminum, the walls were at least double the thickness of a big Maglite, if not more. As I recall, and my memory is imperfect here, it was getting a bit heavy for FMA type techniques, so steel would have been way too heavy.

Joe


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## kb0rrg (Jul 30, 2001)

Not to get too off subject, but I have thought about building a right-angle handle to attach to a mag-lite. This would make it into a baton like device. I have no need (although you can never be 100% sure) nor training in the used of a baton, but I am curious to see if it would work.

A short tube 1” x 5” could be attach to the light directly above the switch. I was thinking that a button could be placed in the end of the short perpendicular tube. A linkage would couple the added button to the existing button of the mag. That way when the baton/light was held by the perpendicular handle, the body of the light would be under the forearm and the bezel would extend beyond the hand a bit. The light could be actuated with the thumb.

Again, not knowing anything about baton techniques, I have no idea if this would be practical. It could be attachable to both the mag-charger and the 3D – 4D. I would guess that the 5D- 6D is WAY to big and heavy….maybe a 3D is too.


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## Unicorn (Jul 30, 2001)

there was an attachment out a few years ago that clamped onto the side of a D cell Maglite to make it act like a PR-24 baton (or a tonfa). I have no idea how well it actually worked. I think it was sold by US Cavalry. PR-24 type batons are difficult to use of you haven't had the training, either police or martial arts.

I think that a couple of the reason that this adapter, as well as the Brute, were discontinued are that most police now carry the ASP or Monadnock collapsable batons, and these lights are too big. The other reason is liability. A light is made to light, not to hit. A 4 D cell Maglite will hit harder than any straight or side handled baton. It is very easy to shatter a bone or joint with these heavy lights. Even the new Power Safety Tip, or the solid aluminum shafts that Monadnock has on some model of their expandable batons won't cause as much damage.


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## Size15's (Jul 30, 2001)

SureFire make "BatonLights" specially designed to screw on the end of ASP (F Series), CASCO, and PPCT Batons. 





Click here for more information

The 6BL adds about 6" to the Baton but you can use the P61 in it. I've seen and held one of these, and they're scary. I'd rather be blinded then hit. If I carried an ASP as a Police Officer, I'd have a 6BL for it!

Al


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## YeeDude (Jul 30, 2001)

I have a scan of The Brute on my machine at home. I'll upload it later tonight...


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## JonSidneyB (Jul 31, 2001)

The Maglight is too big in Diameter for good technique, also the velocity of the swing will be too low and movement will be telegraphed. The Brute was the best of the club light combos. The right thickness and length but maybe a bit heavy. Also, it does not take alot of pressure for a leg break. Saw lots of broken bone wrestling in High School and College. More so in the off season tournements though. Also the Brute would be handier. I think a modern version of the Brute would beat the lights with a baton attachment or the large Maglights for the dual role any day.


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## Velcro (Jul 31, 2001)

Here are some pictures of the REF III™ Sidehandle System.














Here is the website for it, http://www.goodnet.com/~code4/ref3.html. There are two 'action' pictures on this page. They give a good overall idea of the applications.

As you can tell from the pictures, you attach the sidehandle to a C or D cell flashlight by tightening two screws.


Greetings,
Velcro


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## kb0rrg (Jul 31, 2001)

Well, that is another idea that I won't get rich on. I am sure that it is not as efficient as a "real" baton. 

I still think that it would be neat to have the button on the end of the side handle.

I would think (and I am not an expert) that the PR-24 would be rather effective for blocking attacks, more so than a straight slick. Is this true? (sorry if this is too far off the subject of flashlights)


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## Unicorn (Aug 1, 2001)

From most of the people I know who have been trained with both the PR-24 is much better at one handed bloacks than the straight baton, and about the same when two hands are used on the straight baton. Blocking with the PR-24 or two hands on the straight baton is somewhat instinctive, but using just one hand on the straight baton you have to bend your wrist at an awkward angle.

I think that some sort of 6v light at the short end of a PR-24 would be a good idea. Probably could only be added easily to the standard (non-expanding) one though, since the epandable ones use a hollow aluminum tube at the handle end.

Bones do often break easily, but a heavy light will break them more often than a baton. Even if large muscle groups are in the way. Take a 4 D cell Maglite, Streamlight, or Brinkman, or one of the similar sized rechargeables, and hit a wood board. Do the same with a solid polycarbonate baton, and a Monadnock Detective series 23" with the Power Safety Tip, the 26" Autolock also with the PST, and the SX-24F (solid aluminum shaft-striking surface), I'm pretty sure that theses are the three hardest hitting straight batons made. See which causes the most damage.


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## Velcro (Aug 1, 2001)

kb0rrg, if you are interested in the PR-24 baton and it's techniques, you should take a look at the Monadnock website. It has lot's of detailed information and pictures. http://www.police-batons.com/mptc/pr24_tech/pr24tech_index.html 

This http://www.police-batons.com/mptc/meb_tech/mebtech_index.html is the URL for their expandable and rigid straight baton techniques page.

Altough PR-24 batons and straight batons both have their advantages and disadvantages, the PR-24 is a very impressive and versatile weapon. I've had a PR-24 in my hand(s) some time ago, it's very neat






Greetings,
Velcro


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## Velcro (Aug 1, 2001)

I forgot to include this in my earlier post about the REF III™, I thought it was funny to mention.

The company that makes the REF III™ Sidehandle attachment states the following on the website: * "The REF III is a definate plus in the public relations area as well, because it replaces an item often seen as offensive or intimidating."*

Hahahaha, as if a Mag-Lite 6-cell with a sidehandle attachment doesn't look intimidating or offensive.









Greetings,
Velcro


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## lightlover (Aug 1, 2001)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Talmadge:
*.................
The first one I received was DOA, and then next one went belly-up after a few years. I'm guessing both Cold Steel and US Cavalry eventually figured out they had too high of a return rate and dropped the product, but that is purely a guess.

Joe*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joe T, what exactly do you mean when you say the two examples failed ?

Lightlover


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## YeeDude (Aug 1, 2001)

Sorry for the delay guys!


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## JonSidneyB (Aug 2, 2001)

What was the problem with the lights not working??? Would they be repaired or was it a design flaw so bad that it cannot be fixed? Whos lamps do they use, could others be fitted? If one of these could be made to work, if I could fit available lamps, I might want to put forth the effort to find one. If the above questions are a positive, does anyone know where I might be able to find one of these things? Does anyone know who made them?


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## Velcro (Aug 2, 2001)

YeeDude, that is a great (and interesting) picture! Thanks for sharing it with us. What a wicked flashlight.
 






Greetings,
Velcro


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Aug 2, 2001)

...got to get that flashlight! To think of all the time I've wasted _peeling_
my watermelons...


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## Joe Talmadge (Aug 2, 2001)

Guys, the first Brute I got simply didn't work. I didn't bother trying to figure out why, I just sent it back to Cold Steel to be replaced. The second one just stopped working after not all that much use (but over a couple years). The problem was not the batteries. It might have been the bulb, but visually the bulb looked fine. I don't remember exactly what it looked like, but it wasn't browned at all, and I may have seen what appeared to be an intact filament but who knows, it was a long time ago. I tried to open the thing up to replace the lamp, but even a wrench and lube wouldn't make the thing budge, so I'm pretty sure I just ended up tossing it. 

Anyway, somewhere along the line I got the impression that there were high rates of returns, maybe from seeing other people on the net complain about theirs. The product was extraordinarily bright and, as I said, it was a superb fighting flashlight. I feel poor quality on the lighting system itself (the bulbs, maybe) is the most likely explanation for such a great system to fail commercially even after getting exposure from Cold Steel and US Cavalry.

Joe


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## Joe Talmadge (Aug 2, 2001)

I just found my Brute in the garage! It's missing the endcap switch, I'll have to look for that. Apparently I misremembered about the bulb. I had already removed the lens. I did it again, and I'm pretty sure the filament is broken, so it was the bulb. I haven't gotten the bulb out yet. It's in there pretty tight, I'll see if I can pull it out without breaking it.

Joe


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