# Which flashlight has the longest range?



## user73 (Sep 10, 2012)

I dont restrict this question to a certain type of batteries, or price, or kind of flashlight (maybe its a flood light like fenix TK70?). The flashlight has just be on the market and avaiable to buy it..


*
Which is the the flashlight with the longest range?*



(LED Lenser X21R? Fenix TK70? Thrunite TK31? Olight SR90? Olight SR92? Olight SR95? Olight X6 Marauder? ... ?)


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## Gunner12 (Sep 10, 2012)

Production, the Maxabeam might be the furthest throwing portable light. Or you could ask someone to make you a custom short arc light with the largest reflector you are comfortable with (you never stated a price range, battery, size, runtime, or anything ). With LEDs, the most throw from a production light is probably the Olight SR95UT, or you can ask for a custom again.

This has been asked many times, a quick search in that nice search bar on the top left of the page would give you a bunch of results.

:welcome:


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## user73 (Sep 10, 2012)

Gunner12 said:


> Production, the Maxabeam might be the furthest throwing portable light. Or you could ask someone to make you a custom short arc light with the largest reflector you are comfortable with (you never stated a price range, battery, size, runtime, or anything ). With LEDs, the most throw from a production light is probably the Olight SR95UT, or you can ask for a custom again.
> 
> This has been asked many times, a quick search in that nice search bar on the top left of the page would give you a bunch of results.
> 
> :welcome:


 My english is not too good. Which product do you mean? Please only serious answers.

Only ONE searchlight can be the one with the longest range, thats why I opened this thread, now, in September 2012! I dont want a "bunch" and who cares about the best search light of last year ...


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## StarHalo (Sep 10, 2012)

Gunner is correct, the Maxabeam is the living end of what is currently possible with a portable, production flashlight. Order yours here, though it's a wee bit more expensive than a Fenix.

Be aware that a high-watt laser is still the way to go if you just want maximum distance over all else, those are at least comparatively cheaper..


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## Gunner12 (Sep 10, 2012)

IIRC, the Maxabeam has also been there for quite a while.

I'm assuming you don't have unlimited budget and are looking to buy something reasonable, hence my questions about budget, batteries, etc.


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## user73 (Sep 10, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> Gunner is correct, the Maxabeam is the living end of what is currently possible with a portable, production flashlight. Order yours here, though it's a wee bit more expensive than a Fenix.
> 
> Be aware that a high-watt laser is still the way to go if you just want maximum distance over all else, those are at least comparatively cheaper..



Hey StarHalo, definitely the most interesting answer till now. This definitely inspires my dreams!!

When I said the price does not matter, I was not aware of such a price tag! 2500$, omg, and a lifetime of 500 hours .... But still, hmmm, if its worth it, why not save money for a big goal? With such a searchlight even police officiers with their flashlights would be snookered. In the description they only talk about candelas. Let me ask you a few question:

How many lumens does the lamp have?
They say 1° collimated beam: How does this compate to the usual/normal throwers? I belive its quite good, right?
How much is the range? (they say 2 miles = 3200 meter. Would you agree with that, is that true. Or only with reflectors? Is the range really more 3.5x better than of a TN31 for instance?)
They label lifetime with 500 hours. After how many hours the brightness would be noticeable decreased?


About high watt lasers: Can I buy such lasers? Are they avaiable for normal persons? Not restricted? Uh.... I would like to have a high watt laser !


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## user73 (Sep 10, 2012)

Gunner12 said:


> IIRC, the Maxabeam has also been there for quite a while.


 I have problems to understand your pro-level english. First you talked about "productions, maxabeam" now you write about "IIRC" , what is that, what do you mean?


If we WOULD restrict the selection to 1000$ or to LED technology , which is then the searchlight you think it has the longest range?

(LED Lenser X21R? Fenix TK70? Thrunite TK31? Olight SR90? Olight SR92? Olight SR95? Olight X6 Marauder? ... ?)


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## saabluster (Sep 10, 2012)

user73 said:


> Holy! .... The admin deleted the poll of this thread after most people voted for "I dont like the many restrictions for beginners in this forum". Okay, okay ...



If may be viewed as being against the forum rules as you are not to complain about the way the moderation is done here. Not publicly anyway. If you have a problem PM one of the moderators and talk to them about it. 

The maxabeam is the longest throwing light of any kind available commercially. The longest throwing LED based would be the TN31 modified by me which you already know about as I saw the other thread before it got deleted. The only other lights that I know of that are close to my light are the Olight SR95UT and the Lambda lights VPT although there are many variants of that light and some are significantly more powerful than others so you'd have to make sure you got the right one.


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## user73 (Sep 10, 2012)

saabluster said:


> If may be viewed as being against the forum rules as you are not to complain about the way the moderation is done here. Not publicly anyway. If you have a problem PM one of the moderators and talk to them about it.


I had another thread called 'saabluster's modified TN31. ~980 meters of throw." I got an email notification that you added a post in that thread, but now the whole thread is away. What did you write there? ^^
The link to this thread is not valid anymore: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...N31-980-meters-of-throw&p=4020432#post4020432

You adviced me to contact the admin. I dont know which admin it was. Who should I contact? I joined yesterday, this is the second thread they delete... 




saabluster said:


> The maxabeam is the longest throwing light of any kind available commercially. The longest throwing LED based would be the TN31 modified by me which you already know about as I saw the other thread before it got deleted. The only other lights that I know of that are close to my light are the Olight SR95UT and the Lambda lights VPT although there are many variants of that light and some are significantly more powerful than others so you'd have to make sure you got the right one.



Thank you very much for the clear statements. Thats what I was looking for.

Can you tell me something about the modification you did? What is the modification? Whats the result of it? Is there a way to prevent the lamp to suck 65microampere in the standby-modus, a modification to really switch it off (without the need to pull out the batteries) ? --- I guess with 65microampere the batteries will lose a good part of their capacity within a few weeks...


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## saabluster (Sep 10, 2012)

user73 said:


> I had another thread called 'saabluster's modified TN31. ~980 meters of throw." I got an email notification that you added a post in that thread, but now the whole thread is away. What did you write there? ^^
> The link to this thread is not valid anymore: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...N31-980-meters-of-throw&p=4020432#post4020432
> 
> You adviced me to contact the admin. I dont know which admin it was. Who should I contact? I joined yesterday, this is the second thread they delete...



*Norm* posted just above here and is a moderator. You can PM him with any questions you might have. The poll you attached to the other thread is almost certainly what got it deleted. I can't speak for the other one as I never saw it. I know it is probably really frustrating trying to get information especially when English is not your native tongue. A lot of people that have been here for years have seen the same questions asked again and again and will sometimes just tell you to do a search for yourself. Don't take offense. 
I don't remember exactly what I said over there. Sorry.




user73 said:


> Thank you very much for the clear statements. Thats what I was looking for.
> 
> Can you tell me something about the modification you did? What is the modification? Whats the result of it? Is there a way to prevent the lamp to suck 65microampere in the standby-modus, a modification to really switch it off (without the need to pull out the batteries) ? --- I guess with 65microampere the batteries will lose a good part of their capacity within a few weeks...


Don't be alarmed by the 65microamps. That would take years or even decades to drain the batteries. It is common on these types of mode selecting lights. The things that are modded are the LED, thermal interfaces, and encapsulation of the electronics. The result of this is a performance increase on the TN31 from 130Kcd to 240Kcd. It is all there on the site.


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## roadkill1109 (Sep 11, 2012)

I've been meaning to ask, where can I find side-by-side comparisons of the beam and throw between the stock version and the modded version of these lights?

I dont know about you, but that could be a good selling point to offer potential buyers. (like me)


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## StarHalo (Sep 11, 2012)

user73 said:


> How many lumens does the lamp have?
> They say 1° collimated beam: How does this compate to the usual/normal throwers? I belive its quite good, right?
> How much is the range? (they say 2 miles = 3200 meter. Would you agree with that, is that true. Or only with reflectors? Is the range really more 3.5x better than of a TN31 for instance?)
> They label lifetime with 500 hours. After how many hours the brightness would be noticeable decreased?



The lamp is around 800 lumens, not all that powerful, but the emitter source is extremely tiny, which means it can be extremely focused, which makes it go extremely far; the beam is impossibly tight for a regular reflector flashlight, like a "fat laser" (Saabluster's lights do this too, but he uses an LED behind a lens.) "Range" is not a good measurement to use because there are all kinds of variables that come into play when going for distance (a night with mild wind can literally give you only half the range you get on a clear night,) but from what I've heard, seeing a spot a mile away is entirely reasonable on an average night. That's many times a stock TN31, and definitely impossible for any standard mass-produced LED light to do. I'm not sure how xenon arc bulbs age, but it would be really difficult to use a Maxabeam for several hundred hours, there just isn't that much you can do with it (can't use it indoors, can't use it in a neighborhood, can't use it in the city, etc.)



user73 said:


> About high watt lasers: Can I buy such lasers? Are they avaiable for normal persons? Not restricted? Uh.... I would like to have a high watt laser !



You can buy a 1 watt laser here; be aware that these are extremely dangerous, they will cause permanent eye damage instantly and will cut through/set on fire just about anything dark in color. If you just want to see a visible beam going into the sky or distance, an inexpensive ~75mW green model is much cheaper and somewhat safer.

And you should definitely keep an eye on Saabluster's offerings, he basically has his own little mad laboratory where he cooks up new creations and secret devices, he's always got something going on..


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## user73 (Sep 11, 2012)

saabluster said:


> The things that are modded are the LED, thermal interfaces, and encapsulation of the electronics. The result of this is a performance increase on the TN31 from 130Kcd to 240Kcd. It is all there on the site.


Now I see it, before I had a link to a page of this site without this description. Its really fantastic that you do such things *chepeau!* , thats great. Are you an engineer, or is it a hobby for which you developped such a lot of talent?

Both searchlights are interessting for me: the maxabeam and the modified TN31. But I puzzles me that both searchlights have specifications with candela. All other searchlights from amazon and so, and descripton of car head lights, allways use lumen. So how can I compare candela with lumen. whats the relation between them. I googled but found nothing useful so far.

What I can compare at this point is the the maxabeam to the modified TN31: According to the specifications the maxabeam is 48x brighter. Wow ...... 
What about the throwing capabilities of the TN31: The maxabeam states "collimated 1-degree pinpoint spot", how much is it about/roughly in a TN31 ?

Since I know only lumen so far but would like to get an impression, what would you say, if you compare he modified TN31 and the maxabeam to a conventional car headlight? or to a xenon car headlight?


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## user73 (Sep 11, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> The lamp is around 800 lumens. I'm not sure how xenon arc bulbs age, but it would be really difficult to use a Maxabeam for several hundred hours, there just isn't that much you can do with it (can't use it indoors, can't use it in a neighborhood, can't use it in the city, etc.)



I dont know how to convert candelas in lumen. Since the maxabeam has 50 times more candelas than the modified TN31 and 800 lumen, could you say the modified TN31 has 800lumen/50 = 16 lumen? That would not be much._ Edit: The TN31 has 1150 lumen therefore the equation is wrong._ And why can't I use it indoors or in the city? I do live in a city. What does it mean, will the cops come? Is the light dangerous, like a laser, could it seriously blind people? 

And thanks for the links for the lasers. I will later have a look on it, its ealry morning, I spend all the night in this forum, and I have to get 1 hour of sleep before I going to work. The infos you gave me so exciting! But also scary what you told me about the 1 Watt laser. I'm not sure if such a laser would be legal in my country, since we are not allowed to just buy guns and rifles in a shop without a weapon license, which you dont get if you have any record or if you visited once in your life a psychiatrist or whatever. The law concerning weapons is very restrictive in Europe.

Edit: Its written that the modified TN31 has 1150 Lumen. That is not so much, a Fenix TK702200 Lumen or a LED Lenser X21R has 1600 Lumen ---- but I guess your modified TN31 has a much more focused beam, am I right


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## StarHalo (Sep 11, 2012)

user73 said:


> I dont know how to convert candelas in lumen. Since the maxabeam has 50 times more candelas than the modified TN31 and 800 lumen, could you say the modified TN31 has 800lumen/50 = 16 lumen? That would not me much. Probably this equation is not valid. And why can't I use it indoors or in the city? I do live in a city. What does it mean, will the cops come? Is the light dangerous, like a laser, could it seriously blind people?



You're using two different measures; cadelas is sort of a "range" measurement, lumens is brightness:

Candelas - intensity of emitted light at brightest point (a not very helpful measurement so we don't use it, we use lux, which is the amount of light hitting a fixed area at a fixed distance, a very good measurement of how far a light will throw.)

Lumens - total amount of light being emitted (this is "brightness", with no regard for throw or focus)

A Maxabeam produces an extremely intense, tight hotspot, which there isn't any productive use for; you can't light a room with it, you can't really see where you're going with it, it's basically just for showing off how far away you can throw a beam of light. The only place you can reasonably do that is out in the country where you won't disturb or blind anyone. This is the catch with all big gun lights, it's sort of like how you can only drive a race car on a race track (but that's still fun!)



user73 said:


> And thanks for the links for the lasers. I will later have a look on it, its ealry morning, I spend all the night in this forum, and I have to get 1 hour of sleep before I going to work. The infos you gave me so exciting! But also scary what you told me about the 1 Watt laser. I'm not sure if such a laser would be legal in my country, since we are not allowed to just buy guns and rifles in a shop without a weapon license, which you dont get if you have any record or if you visited once in your life a psychiatrist or whatever. The law concerning weapons is very restrictive in Europe.



From what I've heard, there are no issues ordering these lasers in most EU countries.


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## user73 (Sep 11, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> A Maxabeam produces an extremely intense, tight hotspot, which there isn't any productive use for; you can't light a room with it, you can't really see where you're going with it, it's basically just for showing off how far away you can throw a beam of light. The only place you can reasonably do that is out in the country where you won't disturb or blind anyone. This is the catch with all big gun lights, it's sort of like how you can only drive a race car on a race track (but that's still fun!)



Thank you for the explanation of lux, lumens and candelas. about the maxbeam, since my native language is a different one, I am not so sure what you mean: When you say the maxbeam can blind people: Do you mean blind in the sense of dazzle/glare people (so that they have to close the eyes and need some seconds to adapt to night-light again) or do you mean to really make them blind (in the sense of cane and guide dog)? I was allways fascinated about flashlights, since I was a little boy. But apart from this fascination, we do live a the outskirts and there is an aggressive individual in the neighborhood who sometimes stalkes my family at night - would it be too much to glare at him with a focused maxbeam, is it that strong? I certainly don't want to hurt anybody.


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## saabluster (Sep 11, 2012)

roadkill1109 said:


> I've been meaning to ask, where can I find side-by-side comparisons of the beam and throw between the stock version and the modded version of these lights?
> 
> I dont know about you, but that could be a good selling point to offer potential buyers. (like me)


Those will be coming soon. I sent the light up to my uncle to show off to some LEOs before I had a chance to get good beamshots. Wednesday or Thursday night I reckon. 





StarHalo said:


> (Saabluster's lights do this too, but he uses an LED behind a lens.)


Well I'm actually modding reflector lights as well now. Just not under the OMG name at this time. See my sig. 




user73 said:


> I dont know how to convert candelas in lumen. Since the maxabeam has 50 times more candelas than the modified TN31 and 800 lumen, could you say the modified TN31 has 800lumen/50 = 16 lumen? That would not be much._ Edit: The TN31 has 1150 lumen therefore the equation is wrong._ And why can't I use it indoors or in the city? I do live in a city. What does it mean, will the cops come? Is the light dangerous, like a laser, could it seriously blind people?
> 
> Edit: Its written that the modified TN31 has 1150 Lumen. That is not so much, a Fenix TK702200 Lumen or a LED Lenser X21R has 1600 Lumen ---- but I guess your modified TN31 has a much more focused beam, am I right


There is a reason I leave the lumen numbers off my site. The vast majority of people simply do not understand the difference between LUX/cd and lumens. Even here at CPF this is a problem. Since everything at my site is focused on throw the number that is really important is the cd or candela. As StarHalo mentioned candela and lumens are measures of completely different things. Just because the lumens may be higher on one light verses another does not mean it will throw more as well. In fact the higher lumen lights more often throw_ less_ or have less candela.


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## StarHalo (Sep 11, 2012)

I mean blind as in dazzle, but dazzling a police officer or aircraft pilot could get you into serious trouble, and people don't appreciate bright lights coming in through the windows of their homes. And you definitely should not point a Maxabeam at anyone, they would be completely blind for several minutes.


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## fyrstormer (Sep 11, 2012)

All flashlights have infinite range. The main limiting factor is your ability to comprehend the image produced by shining your light at a target.


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## user73 (Sep 11, 2012)

@saabluster:
- What is the meaining of LEO?
- What is the meaning of OMG? I dont understand this sentence: Well I'm actually modding reflector lights as well now. Just not under the OMG name at this time. See my sig. 
- What is the meaning of mcpcb?
- "The things that are modded are the LED..." -- What did you chance on the LED?
- Nevertheless you had your reasons to not post specifications on your website, I am very much interested in these things and numbers, they call me not without reason Mr. Calculator. PM is also a possibility.
I would liketo know how many lumen has your modified TN31 has? Abd how many lux at a distance of ... ?
On your website is written: "On level six 1147 lumen" ... maybe a mistake?
They write about the original TN31 on amazon: 1147 lumen, 99'000 lux, 75 Kcd 



@StarHalo:
- I was looking at the 1 Watt LASER. What a nice thing  I cant belive they even sell lasere sabbers!!!  USA country of infinite opportunities at its best! Is there a thing which does not exist in USA 
- You guess one could blind a pilot flying high in the sky (landing and starting proceeding excluded)? the distance is far, the angle steep, you would probably just enlight the bottom of the airplane, and tracking the aircraft might be difficult..
-Since I could hurt somebody (according to your posting) with the maxabeam, maybe better not

--- 



You guys know all of these following flashlights: LED Lenser X21R, Fenix TK70, Olight SR90, Olight SR92, Olight SR95, Olight X6 Marauder and your final statement and solution of this thread is 
*
"The modified TN31 has the longest range among all temporary LED flashlight" -- Is this the consensus of this thread?
*


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## Gunner12 (Sep 11, 2012)

IIRC = If I remember correctly
OMG = Oh my god (exclamation about something)
LEO = Law Enforcement office (police)

The laser is probably more dangerous then the Maxabeam, since it will harm people's eyes even if you accidentally swipe it across someone's eye. Even reflections from a laser that powerful can damage eyes before the person can blink.

Here's a thread with beamshots of the DEFT (Saabluster's first production light and still one of the best LED throwers) against the Maxabeam. How does the DEFT compare agains the modded TN31?

According to wikipedia, 1 foot candle = 10.764 lux.

On production/semi custom lights, the modded TN31 is probably the longest throwing LED light.

Edit:

I was wondering, and I hope you don't mind me asking, what is your native language user73?


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## The_Driver (Sep 11, 2012)

When you search the forum a bit you will see that the Maxabeam acutally seems to produce 1500-1800lumens.


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## saabluster (Sep 11, 2012)

user73 said:


> @saabluster:
> - What is the meaining of LEO?


Police.



user73 said:


> - What is the meaning of OMG? I dont understand this sentence: Well I'm actually modding reflector lights as well now. Just not under the OMG name at this time. See my sig.


OMG Lumens is the other flashlight company I run. The only products I ever released under that name were lens based as opposed to using reflectors to collimate the beam. 



user73 said:


> - What is the meaning of mcpcb?


metal core printed circuit board




user73 said:


> - "The things that are modded are the LED..." -- What did you chance on the LED?


I don't get into the full extent and detailed specifics of how I do what I do. Just know that it works and works well. 




user73 said:


> - Nevertheless you had your reasons to not post specifications on your website, I am very much interested in these things and numbers, they call me not without reason Mr. Calculator. PM is also a possibility.


I will be adding the lumen data to the website after I have the time to make a detailed informational page to help people understand how to interpret the data. Until then I'd rather not confuse people.



user73 said:


> I would liketo know how many lumen has your modified TN31 has? Abd how many lux at a distance of ... ?


It has just under 1000 lumens. The throw rating is there on the site. 240Kcd or 240,000 candela. I don't use the outdated measurement of LUX but if I did it would be 240,000 [email protected] 1 meter. 



user73 said:


> On your website is written: "On level six 1147 lumen" ... maybe a mistake?


No mistake per se. Note that right after that I state this.
(note that these are manufacturer specs and actual lumen spec will be slightly less.)
I left the manufacturer data there just to give you an idea of the relative power of each level.



user73 said:


> They write about the original TN31 on amazon: 1147 lumen, 99'000 lux, 75 Kcd


The manufacturer states 75Kcd but I think they got something horribly wrong. I show on my website the numbers I get for the stock unit on my setup as well as the modified numbers so you have a better idea of the actual performance increase. 



user73 said:


> You guys know all of these following flashlights: LED Lenser X21R, Fenix TK70, Olight SR90, Olight SR92, Olight SR95, Olight X6 Marauder and your final statement and solution of this thread is
> *
> "The modified TN31 has the longest range among all temporary LED flashlight" -- Is this the consensus of this thread?
> *


Yes we know all those lights. The ones I listed before are the only ones that come anywhere close to the modified TN31. Although I am the maker of these lights and you might think I am biased I can assure you I am not. Even the thought of allowing myself to be biased is repugnant to me. As I have said elsewhere here although I am claiming that the modified TN31 is the current longest throwing LED based light I have not tested the two other lights that are close on my test equipment. I do plan on doing that soon so I know for sure.


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## saabluster (Sep 11, 2012)

By the way I just remembered that since the TN31 has a rear switch that can be used to cut power to the electronics completely so there would be no parasitic drain at all with that switch turned off.


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## StarHalo (Sep 11, 2012)

user73 said:


> - You guess one could blind a pilot flying high in the sky (landing and starting proceeding excluded)? the distance is far, the angle steep, you would probably just enlight the bottom of the airplane, and tracking the aircraft might be difficult..
> -Since I could hurt somebody (according to your posting) with the maxabeam, maybe better not
> 
> *"The modified TN31 has the longest range among all temporary LED flashlight" -- Is this the consensus of this thread?
> *



- Here in the US, all a pilot has to do is report back that there is a light shining on their plane, the federal aviation administration will then scramble police to your location and you will be arrested. It's a serious issue, especially with lasers.

- Any thrower light (particularly of the really powerful variety like we're talking about) will completely blind someone for quite a while if their eyes are night-adjusted and you shine it straight into their face. Generally speaking, for security of your immediate area, a floody light is a better idea; it lights up the entire area around you and will only be mildly dazzling to onlookers (you can't really shine a light on someone 150 meters away and then tell them to get back..)

- Saabluster holds all the records for LED throwers, so if he says a particular light throws farthest, that's pretty much the last word.


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## user73 (Sep 11, 2012)

@saabluster:
you write on your website that there are three types:
reflector
TIR
aspheric

So, aspheric and TIR flashlights have no reflector at all?
What is TIR?


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## user73 (Sep 12, 2012)

to delete


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## user73 (Sep 12, 2012)

to delete


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## Gunner12 (Sep 12, 2012)

TIR is Total Internal Reflection. It's usually a specialized optic that acts like a reflector and focuses the LED light into a a beam. They are generally more efficient then a reflector or an aspherical lens since they can collect all of the light from the emitter. I could be wrong on this, seeing as I'm not an optical engineer.


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## AnAppleSnail (Sep 12, 2012)

Gunner12 said:


> TIR is Total Internal Reflection. It's usually a specialized optic that acts like a reflector and focuses the LED light into a a beam. They are generally more efficient then a reflector or an aspherical lens since they can collect all of the light from the emitter. I could be wrong on this, seeing as I'm not an optical engineer.



You've got it. It's sort of another way of making a reflector. Instead of a shiny parabola (Reflector), a clear parabola is used. Most of the light from a real source (LED or filament, not infinitely small point) will be captured by the parabola. The difference of Index of Refraction makes a lovely reflector. Consider looking up from underwater. At angles far from vertical, the water will reflect things from underwater instead of showing you the sky. Many TIR lights can be made quite throwy in a small size, and some have secondary bits that capture more light. A TIR is usually acrylic, and they are quite durable, but not as scratch-resistant as most glass.

A reflector only captures some light; a 3-d polar integration would give the exact number. The light that touches the reflector goes to the 'spot' of the beam, and all other light is spill. To get truly inspiring throw from a reflector light requires small source size and a deep reflector. More light hitting the reflector is better.

An aspheric lens can only capture light that hits it. This can be 1/4 of the LED output with a long focal length. Some lights use pre-optics that increase light output but decrease throw. Others use retroreflectors to re-strike the phosphor and increase output and throw.


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## laur (Sep 12, 2012)

I have recently purchased one of Saabluster's modified ThruNite TN31 flashlights.

Trust me -- I only bet on a horse I know is going to win. In other words, Saabluster has the experience to make a true "thrower" flashlight. If he says its the best LED thrower -- You can believe what he says. He is a modest person and not someone that would make exaggerated claims.

I have complete faith that when my modified TN31 arrives it will "overpower" all my other thrower flashlights.

laur


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## user73 (Sep 12, 2012)

saabluster said:


> It has just under 1000 lumens. The throw rating is there on the site. 240Kcd or 240,000 candela.


Therefore your TN31 has 150 lumen less than the unmodified flashlight, but more candelas?



saabluster said:


> I don't get into the full extent and detailed specifics of how I do what I do.


 Of course. I dont want to know the HOWs and company secrets, I would like to know the WHATs, like in "What am I buying?". Did you replace the LED, or the reflector, or a resistor, WHAT is the modified thing that produces more range and candelas?





(For instance the thing about the resistor would have an influence on the power consumption; is your TN31 consuming a higher current than a unmodified one?)


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## Gunner12 (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm assuming he removes the dome of the LED.

The dome on high power LEDs make the LED die appear larger, and also helps get more output of the LED. If you remove the dome, you end up with a smaller apparent size (actual size vs magnified size) so that decrease in apparent output per surface area gives more throw. I'm assuming it also has less output since the light isn't striking the dome-air interface perpendicularity, so some light bounces back into the LED.


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## GulfCoastToad (Sep 12, 2012)

user73 said:


> My english is not too good. Which product do you mean? Please only serious answers.
> 
> Only ONE searchlight can be the one with the longest range, thats why I opened this thread, now, in September 2012! I dont want a "bunch" and who cares about the best search light of last year ...



No one else has said it, but I'll be the jerk and just put it out there. 

I smell a rat. 

Your English is not too good? You have better grammar and spelling than MOST of the English speakers on this forum. 

You've been pretty abrupt with your inquiries, and I'm inclined to let you do your own searching instead of employing those of us on here to research for you. 

With the obvious turn of events in "throw modded" lights over the past few weeks, and the market's "How'd he do that?" reaction, I'm not the least bit apologetic about being suspicious when someone comes snooping around for table scraps.


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## user73 (Sep 13, 2012)

GulfCoastToad said:


> No one else has said it, but I'll be the jerk and just put it out there.
> 
> I smell a rat.
> 
> ...



Well, there's a big difference between understanding school english and understanding slang/dialect/abbreviations. For the latter a translator delivers no search results.
About the range and this thread: If you read this thread carefully, you will find which two flashlights have the longest range. People in this thread have been really helpful, I do appreciate that.
About your clumsy attempt to offend me: It did not really work.


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## fyrstormer (Sep 13, 2012)

GulfCoastToad said:


> I smell a rat.


You mean a mole?


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## user73 (Sep 13, 2012)

saabluster said:


> By the way I just remembered that since the TN31 has a rear switch that can be used to cut power to the electronics completely so there would be no parasitic drain at all with that switch turned off.


Thats fine. Good to know. But you have been right too with your statement. A little calculation surprised me:

charge of good 19650s=4'000mAh
discharge=65*10^-6 A

appr. runtime=Q/I= 4'000 mAh/65mA=4'000mAh/0.065mA=61'538 hours=2564 days=7 years


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## user73 (Sep 18, 2012)

What about this flashlight "The Torch" from Wicked Laser, halogen not LED, can it keep up with a TN31 concerning candelas/range?
http://www.wickedlasers.com/torch


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## AnAppleSnail (Sep 18, 2012)

user73 said:


> What about this flashlight "The Torch" from Wicked Laser, halogen not LED, can it keep up with a TN31 concerning candelas/range?
> http://www.wickedlasers.com/torch



The Torch is an overpriced mag mod. Probably a Mag58, if I recall correctly. It has a lot of power, but not much finesse. You could check CPFers for what a typical Mag58 mod gets in terms of lux. Theirs has a runtime of about 10 minutes - even less practical than a real Mag58!


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## user73 (Sep 18, 2012)

AnAppleSnail said:


> The Torch is an overpriced mag mod. Probably a Mag58, if I recall correctly. It has a lot of power, but not much finesse. You could check CPFers for what a typical Mag58 mod gets in terms of lux. Theirs has a runtime of about 10 minutes - even less practical than a real Mag58!


There is one hit for "mag58": Its this thread! 
The price with 200$ is cheaper than a lot of other lights.

Ok, this thread is about the longest range (not only about LED) , so lets dig deeper!


1) I would like to know the range of "the torch".

2) And I would like to know the range of these lasers: http://www.wickedlasers.com/krypton
Does somebody has one or used one? If yes:
- color (blue? green? red?)
- how many MiliWatt ?
- range in a clear night _seen from the location of the laser_?
- range in a clear night seen _when you drive with a car along the beam_?


Too bad the green lasers are so expensive and in many european countries its forbiden to carry them with you (even not in the car). But they attract me much. The blue lasers are cheaper, but I guess the visibility is not so good. blue laser in the night is not really exciting....


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## StarHalo (Sep 18, 2012)

- The Torch is garbage; uses some random hot bulb in a flat and heavily crenelated reflector (looks like crumpled foil), it just floods a few thousand lumens without much of a beam to speak of. It was designed to burn things, not be a flashlight.

- You should not under any circumstances use a laser on or around a moving car; with these high output models, all it would take is sweeping by a driver's eyes for a spit second, and you've got a blind and out of control driver behind a multi-ton missile. 

- Anything beyond a few mW will produce a visible beam in the night sky; for astronomy purposes the goal is merely visible, not bright, because bright will ruin your night vision and make stars harder to see. You can see a laser from many miles away, but bear in mind that you must target very precisely - anything more than a mile or so away and you'll probably need some sort of mount or tripod.


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## user73 (Sep 19, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> - The Torch is garbage; uses some random hot bulb in a flat and heavily crenelated reflector (looks like crumpled foil), it just floods a few thousand lumens without much of a beam to speak of. It was designed to burn things, not be a flashlight.


ok



StarHalo said:


> - You should not under any circumstances use a laser on or around a moving car; with these high output models, all it would take is sweeping by a driver's eyes for a spit second, and you've got a blind and out of control driver behind a multi-ton missile.
> 
> - Anything beyond a few mW will produce a visible beam in the night sky; for astronomy purposes the goal is merely visible, not bright, because bright will ruin your night vision and make stars harder to see. You can see a laser from many miles away, but bear in mind that you must target very precisely - anything more than a mile or so away and you'll probably need some sort of mount or tripod.


 The question is: 1) how far do you see a 1 Watt laser beam viewed from laser location
and 2) how long is the beam visible , for instance when driving with a car UNDER a laser beam, along the beam (and now dont tell me now that I should not blind pilots, please). just roughly . I am just curious because in Europe its forbidden


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## MontanaMan (Sep 19, 2012)

I cannot wait for my modified TN31 to arrive. When it does get here, and I get my friend to help me take some photos, I'll be posting beam shots of the SR95 Intimidator, the SR95UT, and the modified TN31. There is no question that the SR95UT out throws the SR95 despite having %50 less lumens. Anyhow, off the shelf, the Olight SR95UT is the furthest throwing LED flashlight. Until I get the light I ordered from Saabluster, that is all I can say.


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## MontanaMan (Sep 19, 2012)

I initially assumed you were interested in LED lights, but for now, HID lights will win. I'm not into HIDs unless they are 1000w garden lights, but I found this light called the Magnalight Dual Mode HID flashlight/diving light. It can operate at 35w and 50w and can be handheld (comes with handle) or mounted. They claim it produces 3500 lumens in the 35w mode and has a 5000 foot beam (1,524 meters). In High mode they claim 4,700 lumens and a beam over 7,000 feet (2133.6 meters). It is about $2,500 USD. 

It is the Magnalight HIDH-3350 Dual Mode Flashlight. I'm sure there are bigger, more powerful HID lights that can throw farther, but if these claims are true, this would be one sick light. 

I have no experience with this company with flashlights, but I own LED light bars and round lights that look exactly like the lights they are selling. Mine are branded VisionX, but all of the products are the same. Anyhow, hope that helped somehow.


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## user73 (Sep 19, 2012)

MontanaMan said:


> I cannot wait for my modified TN31 to arrive. When it does get here, and I get my friend to help me take some photos, I'll be posting beam shots of the SR95 Intimidator, the SR95UT, and the modified TN31. There is no question that the SR95UT out throws the SR95 despite having %50 less lumens. Anyhow, off the shelf, the Olight SR95UT is the furthest throwing LED flashlight. Until I get the light I ordered from Saabluster, that is all I can say.


do that, good thing =


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## user73 (Sep 19, 2012)

MontanaMan said:


> I initially assumed you were interested in LED lights, but for now, HID lights will win. I'm not into HIDs unless they are 1000w garden lights, but I found this light called the Magnalight Dual Mode HID flashlight/diving light. It can operate at 35w and 50w and can be handheld (comes with handle) or mounted. They claim it produces 3500 lumens in the 35w mode and has a 5000 foot beam (1,524 meters). In High mode they claim 4,700 lumens and a beam over 7,000 feet (2133.6 meters). It is about $2,500 USD.
> 
> It is the Magnalight HIDH-3350 Dual Mode Flashlight. I'm sure there are bigger, more powerful HID lights that can throw farther, but if these claims are true, this would be one sick light.
> 
> I have no experience with this company with flashlights, but I own LED light bars and round lights that look exactly like the lights they are selling. Mine are branded VisionX, but all of the products are the same. Anyhow, hope that helped somehow.


sounds interesting. probably you need a half car batterie to run such a flashlight, I guess they are quite heavy


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## StarHalo (Sep 19, 2012)

user73 said:


> The question is: 1) how far do you see a 1 Watt laser beam viewed from laser location
> and 2) how long is the beam visible , for instance when driving with a car UNDER a laser beam, along the beam (and now dont tell me now that I should not blind pilots, please). just roughly . I am just curious because in Europe its forbidden



A 1 watt laser will throw a beam farther than you can see it; you would have to point it at an object on the horizon and then use binoculars or a telescope to see the spot. I don't know of anyone who has done distance testing with these lasers, but "many miles" would be a realistic estimate.

The key to seeing any laser is to stay close to its axis of travel; so as long as your beam was right next to the car, it would be visible to the occupants (looking in the direction of the source or the destination) for at least a mile. However looking at the beam perpendicular/from the side, it would probably not be visible after a few hundred feet. 

Also, if you're interested in HID, a good starting point would be the light in my sigline, the Stanley HID; 35 watts, 3500 lumens, throws a spot for a half mile, $75. It does weigh about eight pounds, and it's not waterproof or "tactical", but if you just want to try out the technology, it's a fine first step.


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## user73 (Sep 20, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> A 1 watt laser will throw a beam farther than you can see it; you would have to point it at an object on the horizon and then use binoculars or a telescope to see the spot. I don't know of anyone who has done distance testing with these lasers, but "many miles" would be a realistic estimate.
> 
> The key to seeing any laser is to stay close to its axis of travel; so as long as your beam was right next to the car, it would be visible to the occupants (looking in the direction of the source or the destination) for at least a mile. However looking at the beam perpendicular/from the side, it would probably not be visible after a few hundred feet.
> 
> Also, if you're interested in HID, a good starting point would be the light in my sigline, the Stanley HID; 35 watts, 3500 lumens, throws a spot for a half mile, $75. It does weigh about eight pounds, and it's not waterproof or "tactical", but if you just want to try out the technology, it's a fine first step.


I was trying to order that cool Stanley HID, the lamp is 72 dollars, but amazon offers only prioritiy shipping for 62 dollars, thats too much. same problem with saabluster, I guess his light would be good too, but I am not willing to spend 88$ for an express delivery.

About the laser: my father told me once when I was a boy, that he was followig a laser beam with his car from his own town and he drived and drived till he finally arrived in a city which was about 20 km or more (?) away. the laser was installed on the roof of a building. I dont know how strong this laser was, thats why I put here the queston with the 1 Watt laser to have a comparison because this fascinating story is still in my mind

StarHalo, you are putting here links to so many nice things, its driving me nuts because its hard to get them to Central Europe. The laser would probably get seized and as for the flashlights I cant pay a postage price which is almost as high as the flashlight itself. It is pure madness that most american sellers only want to buy there stuff via express or high priority packages. I hope there will be somewhere the same stanley with a reasonable postage, because I like this flashlight, how it looks (the shape and color) and the hight lumen output

Or another very common amazon message, when you filled your cart and went through allmost all the purchchase procedure: "This article can not be shipped to your address. Please choose a different country." I dont like this discriminations.


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## Gunner12 (Sep 20, 2012)

Maybe a HID mod could work for you?

Get a big spotlight, and a HID kit meant for a car. If the spotlight uses a car's bulb, you can swap the bulb for the HID kit and get something that throw far and isn't too expensive. Maybe even swap the battery for a large Lithium pack for a lighter light.


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## user73 (Sep 20, 2012)

@StarHalo about the Stanley:
How much postage do you have to pay if you order this light in USA? (I am just curious)
what is roughly the range of this stanley?
Is the stanley charger working with 220V?
I was reading the feedbacks on amazon.com: 34 give 5 stars, 15 give 1 star (!) The one with the 1 star say the battery never worked, or works for 1 minute, or problems with batterie beginn after 2.5 months, some of them had 2 light and problem with both. It seams to be a gamble. If only I would find it with a normal postage then I would take the risk, because I think if you send the item back to amazon in worst case, they will only refund the item cost but not the shipping cost from them to me. Is this right? Or do they refund the postage as well?


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## StarHalo (Sep 20, 2012)

The Stanley HID is sold in Wal-Mart stores here, I went to my local store and picked one up. I have personally measured a spot at 800 meters with my copy. The charger does not work with 220V, you'd need a converter or replacement adapter. While the Amazon reviews are somewhat helpful, you can also browse reviews of the light here if you search for it; its reliability is above average for a Chinese-made light. I have no idea how international shipping works, but there are others here who could probably tell you all about it.


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## user73 (Oct 1, 2012)

AnAppleSnail said:


> Some lights use pre-optics that increase light output but decrease throw.


 Do you mean with that the lens/dome which is mounted directly on the LED-die? Everything that is in the beam swallows a little bit of light. Therefore how does this lense increase light output? Light above the die (0°-180°) could be catched by a good reflector, so what is the purpose of this lens? Could you describe that in detail?

As far as I see the difference of the Olight SR95 and SR95UT is only this lens (the LED in the SR95 is called SST-90, the LED in the SR95UT is called SBT-90 -- but I belive the only difference is the existence/non-existence of a "pre-optic" lens). The difference in the results of that is, that the light output/lumens of the SR95UT is halved (!!!), and throw is prolonged by 100m. (search in amazon.com for "Olight SR95" resp. "Olight SR95UT").

I guess this is pretty much the thing what Saablaster is doing, even when he claims, that the light output/lumen of his flashlight is decreased only a little ( ? ) , and that his throw is prolonged by about 250m. When the omission of a "pre-optic" lens on a SST-90 LED has such a big effect on lumens but only a quite small effect on range, it is somehow astonishing that the same omission on a XM-L LED has only a little effect on lumen but a very big effect on range. Maybe he's a wizard


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## user73 (Oct 1, 2012)

MontanaMan;4026155There is no question that the SR95UT out throws the SR95 despite having %50 less lumens. [/QUOTE said:


> Did you compare the SR95 and SR95UT also by yourself? Which one do you like more?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## user73 (Oct 1, 2012)

I am still thinking about the maxa beam. What a wonderful light: 75 Watt Xenon HID, 8.5 Ampère, 12'000'000 candela and a range of approximately 3500m (!!!) . It can even be mounted on a .50 caliber machine gun. I love the video about the Browning M2. A combination between my favorite machine gun and favorite flashlight would definitely rock!

(if someone wants to sell a used Maxa Beam or knows where a used one is advertised, send me a pm)



*full metal power Browning M2: *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJuj1PSZLnE&feature=youtu.be (tell me if you like it)

*candle power:* http://peakbeam.thomasnet.com/item/...410?&plpver=10&origin=keyword&filter=&by=prod


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## user73 (Oct 15, 2012)

*THE REAL KING OF THROW !!!*


Here are some pictures of the Maxa Beam at night. If you are not impressed by these pictures, then no flashlight ever will impress you !
In 3500m distance the beam has a diameter of only 61m (!)
http://peakbeam.thomasnet.com/Asset/Maxa Beam Range Demo 11-09.pdf



Instead of buying every 2 years a quite weak "best thrower LED flashlight" I prefere to buy once a used, cheap Maxa Beam and have it as a king of throw for the next 20 years.
Maybe I will also buy a saablustered TN31 to have a light flashlight, when going to the mountains, and to compare the two beams. But according to the specifications below, I fear, that the Saabluster might shine in direct comparison like a ancient petrol lantern 

*
Specifications Maxabeam with leightest accumulator:*
length x diameter = 11,5" x 5.75" = 29cm x 15cm [shorter than a Olight SR95 intimidator]
weight: 5.8 lbs = 2.6kg [about twice the weight of a SR95]
peak beam intensity = 12'000'000 candelas [50x brighter peak beam intensity than Saablusters TN31 (!) ]
range: 3900 yards = 3500m [3.6x the range of Saablusters TN31 (!) => *THIS IS THE REAL KING OF THROW !!!* ]
price: I found a used 2nd generation with a 2° beam for 700$, but I am still looking for a 3rd generation with a 1° beam




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW: Does somebody know, why the Olight SR95UT loses 50% of lumens (950 lumen less) without the dome?


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## StarHalo (Oct 16, 2012)

user73 said:


> *THIS IS THE REAL KING OF THROW !!!*



That's why Gunner and I told you about it in posts #2 and #4 of this thread..


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## user73 (Oct 16, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> That's why Gunner and I told you about it in posts #2 and #4 of this thread..



Thats how I found it. Why do you point at it? Oh .... you want a thank you.
Here it comes: Thank you very much. I absolutely like this flashlight!


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## StarHalo (Oct 16, 2012)

user73 said:


> Oh .... you want a thank you.



Just wanted to make sure you caught it, glad you've seen the light about the Maxabeam. What is your application that you'd be willing to spend $700+ on a flashlight?


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## user73 (Oct 16, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> Just wanted to make sure you caught it, glad you've seen the light about the Maxabeam. What is your application that you'd be willing to spend $700+ on a flashlight?



$700+ ... two saablustered TN31 cost together with the shipping costs also 700$ , but if you buy a Maxa Beam the performance will be much better and the light will last at least the next 20 years without beeing outperformed by newer LED lights.

Application? Fun, dude. The child within me! It's a dream of childhood to have such a light. Most people do also not really need a saablustered TN31. Why do they buy it nevertheless? For fun! Since I found the maxabeam I love to this light. Its pure power, man, that makes my heart sing.

So, do you have more reasonable reasons? Why do you like the Stanley? Whats your application?


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## user73 (Oct 16, 2012)

Thats what Stanley wrote me back, there for the Stanleys can not be used in Europe: 


_Thank you for contacting Baccus Global. We do not manufacture an adapter that will work with 220V. This product was only released in North America.


Best regards,


Customer Service_


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## saabluster (Oct 16, 2012)

user73 said:


> Instead of buying every 2 years a quite weak "best thrower LED flashlight" I prefere to buy once a used, cheap Maxa Beam and have it as a king of throw for the next 20 years.
> Maybe I will also buy a saablustered TN31 to have a light flashlight, when going to the mountains, and to compare the two beams. But according to the specifications below, I fear, that the Saabluster might shine in direct comparison like a ancient petrol lantern


You are right that LED lights will be getting better and better and that each year will bring something more powerful. The Maxabeam does indeed spank every single LED flashlight around but it is a much larger light. You would simply have to trust me when I tell you that there is no way in this world that Maxabeam will be able to beat an LED in the same size light come 20 years from now. No way. I will see to it long before we get there. I will be announcing a new record soon. While it will not beat the Maxabeam this has more to do with the form-factor I prefer to work with than anything. 

Also keep in mind the shipping my site shows is way off for foreign orders. I am refunding the excess shipping costs. Glad you found what you were looking for.


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## user73 (Oct 16, 2012)

AnAppleSnail said:


> An aspheric lens can only capture light that hits it. This can be 1/4 of the LED output with a long focal length. Some lights use pre-optics that increase light output but decrease throw. Others use retroreflectors to re-strike the phosphor and increase output and throw.



Why is only 1/4 captured by the aspheric lens ??

Normally I would guess that everything that is in the beam would decrease the output. Why will a pre-optic lens (also called "dome" in the goinggear youtube clip) increase the light output? Why is the SR95UT losing almost 50% of light without the dome (950 lumens less)?


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## StarHalo (Oct 16, 2012)

user73 said:


> So, do you have more reasonable reasons? Why do you like the Stanley? Whats your application?



Oh I just have the Stanley for fun too, but it costs one tenth of that Maxabeam. And I prefer HID over narrow throwers for fun, I like to light up a massive area with my throw, though I can see the appeal of just lighting up things farther away (particularly doing cloud bounce, which is hard for a modest-watt HID to do in most situations.) 



saabluster said:


> I will see to it long before we get there. I will be announcing a new record soon.



Mad laboratory with secret devices, gotta watch him..


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## user73 (Oct 16, 2012)

saabluster said:


> The Maxabeam does indeed spank every single LED flashlight around but it is a much larger light.


The length is less than of a SR95, but its a bit bulkier. But regarding its extreme performance, the Maxa Beam is really lightweight. 




saabluster said:


> I tell you that there is no way in this world that Maxabeam will be able to beat an LED in the same size light come 20 years from now.


Well, at first the weight is not not a big issue for me, unless I go hiking into the mountains. Secondly, at moment the Maxa Beam has only twice the weight of a SR95 but 90x its peak output density! Of course there will be short (and lightweight) LED flashlights, but then the throw (at least with a reflector) will not be very good. The Maxa Beam has such a big edge, 3.6x longer range and 50x more peak output density than your well-performing lights, that I doubt that LED technology will catch up within the next 20 years. 3rd I was reading last weak on a website (no guarantee that this is true) that the efficiency of modern LED allmost reached the theoretical ceilling. If true, you can only increase the electrical power resp. the die itself, which will not deliver a corespondingly linear throw increase. 4rd The Maxa Beam itself will improve as well within the next 20 years. The step from 2nd generation to 3rd generation was really awsome, even when compared with LED flashlight progress.



saabluster said:


> The Maxabeam does indeed spank every single LED flashlight around but it is a much larger light. Glad you found what you were looking for.


Thank you


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## Norm (Oct 16, 2012)

I have moved this thread out of the "Recommend Me a Light For.." sub forum into "General Flashlight Discussion" - Norm


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## Echo63 (Oct 16, 2012)

The Maxabeam is probably still the furthest throwing production light.
the Megaray I believe has more lumens, but doesn't throw them quite as far.

I would also believe the 3500m claim - here is a pic of mine reaching out around 1000m in a fairly well lit area
(this is a Gen2 with a different bulb - a Ushio UXL75-XE - from what I have been told my Gen 3 should out throw it)
i really should take my Gen3 back here and do some more pictures (yes I have 2 maxabeams)

Also - this is on "normal" power setting - it is quite a bit brighter on high


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## user73 (Oct 18, 2012)

Echo63 said:


> The Maxabeam is probably still the furthest throwing production light.
> the Megaray I believe has more lumens, but doesn't throw them quite as far.
> 
> I would also believe the 3500m claim - here is a pic of mine reaching out around 1000m in a fairly well lit area
> ...


Dude, 2 Max Beams, you are definitely my hero 

Its a nice foto and I would definitely like to see your Maxa Beam on high, and even more the comparison between 2nd and 3rd generation!!!
Post it as soon you have it


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## Echo63 (Oct 18, 2012)

user73 said:


> Dude, 2 Max Beams, you are definitely my hero
> 
> Its a nice foto and I would definitely like to see your Maxa Beam on high, and even more the comparison between 2nd and 3rd generation!!!
> Post it as soon you have it



i bought the Gen2 from the marketplace - then wanted a nice hard case for it, and managed to find the Gen3, with a 25ft cable, hard case and spare bulb for a great price from the same seller about 9 months later

My Gen 2 is currently out of action, i managed to snap the return wire of the clip that holds the bulb and cant just solder it as it gets too hot.
to put them on high, i need another person to hold the button, so need to get my Gen3, my camera, and another person all in the same place at one time so may take a while to do.

for what its worth, Peak Beam Systems (who make the Maxabeam) have excellent customer service.


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## Tracker II (Oct 18, 2012)

Do the lumen knobs on Maxa Beams go up to eleven?


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## Echo63 (Oct 18, 2012)

Tracker II said:


> Do the lumen knobs on Maxa Beams go up to eleven?



there isnt a "Lumen knob" on a maxabeam, in fact they arent even all that bright for the wattage/weight (around 1500 lumens for the 75w high setting i believe)
what they do have is a tiny little arc - i believe the arc gap is 0.9mm and the hotspot in the arc is closer to 0.1mm which is about as close to a "point source" of light as we can get.
the tiny source of light has a very high surface brightness - which means the nice deep reflector can gather as many lumens as possible and corral them into a tight 1 degree beam.

if you want massive lumen numbers - go and get a 35w hid light - they easily do double the number of lumens.
if you want throw - the Maxabeam is the toy for you - my Gen2 did a properly measured 7.2 Million candlepower (now compare that to the halogen "10 MCP" spotlights you see at the hardware store that top out around half a million CP) and you see how they throw.

i havent tested the Gen3 CP yet - i need to find my lightmeter and some time to go and test it.

the MB does have the coolest electronic focusing mechanism though - and a really really irritating strobe (you know how irritating the strobe light on your LED light is - the MB can do that from half a mile away

Heres a few more pics of mine
Gen3 in the hard case




Gen2 spot




Gen2 flood




Ushio bulb in the Gen2 cooling down




another one of the Gen2 reaching out




and the Gen2 and Gen3 together (them spots are out of focus and look much bigger than they do in real life)
G2 on the left and G3 on the right - also the G3 was having focus issues - it has now been fixed


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## user73 (Oct 20, 2012)

@echo63:
Its good to meet you. I like the useful informations you provide and the pictures are great. The bulb cooling down looks really nice. And you have a cute cat which reminds me of the own cat we had 30 years ago with the same nice organge fur. Though your cat looks more docile, ours had a temperatment which was fitting to the orange fur, she was even jumping on a barbecue grill, which was in the middle of a wood fire, to catch a piece of meat. 


Is your vendor maybe selling some more used maxa beams? People living outside US have to buy the light directly from Peak Beam manufacturer. They want to pay you 200$ more than stock price for US, but then as a candlepowerforums user you get a 200$ price reduction, so the price is at the end 2400$ ... a little bit too much for me. If you should know where I can get a used Maxa Beam I would be greatful. BTW: In which price zone should it be possible to get a used 3rd generation, with accumulator?


On ebay I saw a guy selling bulbs for 90$. But Peak Beam told me they sell a "bulb chaning set" for 600$. Do you know what is inside this set, some exeptional tools without which you can not replace the bulb?


You said your 2nd gen is defective. I did not understand the words of the declaration what is defect. What happened to it? Is it easy to "break" these flashlights?




Tracker II said:


> Do the lumen knobs on Maxa Beams go up to eleven?


Even though I had english in school I don't manage to understand that question. What does it mean?


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## Echo63 (Oct 20, 2012)

user73 said:


> @echo63:
> Its good to meet you here. I like the useful informations you provide and the pictures are great. The bulb cooling down looks really nice, and you have a cute cat. When I was a child we also had a cat with orange fur, I very much liked her
> 
> Is your vendor maybe selling some more used maxa beams? People living outside US have to buy the light directly from Peak Beam manufacturer. They want to pay you 200$ more than stock price for US, but then as a candlepowerforums user you get a 200$ price reduction, so the price is at the end 2400$ ... a little bit too much for me. If you should know where I can get a used Maxa Beam I would be greatful. BTW: In which price zone should it be possible to get a used 3rd generation, with accumulator?
> ...




User 73 
the "does the lumen knob go all the way to 11" is a joke in reference to a movie, where a band proclaims that their amplifiers are louder than anyone else's, as their volume knobs to to 11, whereas everyone else's stop at 10.
i think the movie is called "this is spinal tap"

I bought both of my Maxabeams second hand, over on the Candlepowerforums Marketplace (CPFMP) 
i don't know if the seller has any more, but they do pop up on the marketplace from time to time.
i think my Gen2 was around $700 USD plus shipping to Australia, and was just the light, battery and cable (i had the seller keep the charger as it wasnt compatible with the australian 240V 50Hz power) I built a charge cable and use it with a hobby charger
here you can see the 12v power supply with the hobby charger on it, the charge lead, and the Maxabeam battery
the light itself is to the right (the battery is removeable and easily clicks on and off)





the Gen3 was $1000 USD plus shipping, but came with a Pelican case, "bulb changing set" from eBay, a 25ft power lead, along with the light, battery and short power lead (again no charger, as the seller would have had to order a 240v one from peak beam, and I already have a charger that works)

The "bulb changing kit" contains a spare bulb, 1/16" driver to remove the front glass and reposition the bulb, new seal and screws for the front glass, alcohol swabs to clean the bulb (they can shatter if you fire them up after touching them with your fingers, the oil in your hands damages the glass as it heats up)
It also contains a pair of safety glasses (important as the bulbs are very high pressure, and literally explode when they break)
The kits on eBay have been sourced as "surplus" and have been sold off cheaply - I would imagine the original buyer paid $600 each from peak beam.

As for my Gen2 - the bulb requires 2 connections to operate.
the first connection is behind the reflector, the light is held in place by a set of spring "fingers" which is connected to the focusing mechanism.
the other end is at the front of the light near the reflector - a wire with a clip on the end clips to the bulb, this is known as the return wire.
I managed to break the spotweld holding the wire to the clip, and it requires a new part (and trip back to peakbeam) 
the part itself is about $5 USD.

The clip can't just be soldered to the wire, as the temperatures conducted along the bulb clip would melt the solder.

The Maxabeams are good solid lights, I am just a bit clumsy and managed to put some pressure in the wrong spot, and pop the wire off the clip.

Here is a pic of the front of the reflector - you can see the black wire running from the bulb in the centre, to the edge of the reflector


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## user73 (Nov 2, 2012)

@ Echo63:

Thank you very much for your detailed answer 

And sorry for the late reply, I was quite busy in the last 2 weeks.


"does the lumen knob go all the way to 11": No wonder I did not understand that expression when its from a movie ^^ 

1000$ is a very good price, thats a quite bargain, fantastic! 

Broken Clip: As you describe it seems to be quite wicked. Can you prolong the wire with a press-connection (with a cable end sleeve or somethin similiar) and then wrap the wire around the pole an make a node?

Bulb Changing Kit:
Screw driver and alcohol I could buy myself, its seem hardly worth the price of 600$. So the question is if the "new seal" is needed. When a new seal is not absolutetly necessary, I would go for the ebay bulb-only offer. Is the old seal broken when you change the bulb?

Charger: You wrote that your charger has 12V. Do you limit the current when loading your accumulator? Or do you load with "full throttle" in other words with no current limitation?

Titanium L70: Did you hear about the* HID **Titanium Innovations L70 Locator**?* I found it in the internet some days ago. It has also 75 Watt and a 1° angle (same as 3rd gen Maxa Beam), it has_ 7000 lumens_ (you said the Maxa Beam has around 1500 lumen) ,_ but costs new from the shop only 999.95$_. Therefore its a lot cheaper than the Maxa Beam.* Is there a good reason why to go for the Maxa Beam* and pay a much higher price instead of buying an L70?

P.S. I thought the guy with blonde hair seen in the reflector (shooting the photo of the Maxa Beam) is you. But your Avatar photo is with dark hair and looks much younger


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## Echo63 (Nov 3, 2012)

user73 said:


> @ Echo63:
> 
> Thank you very much for your detailed answer
> 
> ...


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## user73 (Nov 3, 2012)

@Echo63:
Thanks again for the photo and the many usefull informations.

Charger: do you choose only the type of accu, or do you limit the current (to how much)?

L70 vs Maxa Beam:
Thats nice. I would really appreciate it, if some of your friends would reply there.

However, the last few hours I was investigating a bit. I did nowhere found the information that the Maxa Beam has about 1500 lumens. Did you read this somewhere, or is it an estimate?

While the T70 has only 70W, its output is labled with astonishing 7000 lumens. I asked myself, why does the Maxa Beam has so much less output? Then I found this chart (to undertstand it, you have to know that the visible range for human eyes is roughly from 380 - 780 nm) : http://peakbeam.thomasnet.com/Asset/Xenon Lamp Output.pdf => therefore half of the light output (area under the graph) is in the IR-range and wasted. Maxa Beam color temperatur is labled with 6000K (sunlight about 5000K), while color temperature of T70 is 4200K. Therfore I guess that L70 wastes less light in IR range. But even so, the Maxa Light should still have about 3500 lumen in visible range, if there are no additional limiting effects.

On the L70 shop site I found the following describtion:
"The L70 emits a light so strong that can be seen for miles. The L70 is capable of emitting an effective beam over 1400 yards (4200 feet) while simultaneously offering excellent peripheral lighting....Highly Adjustable/Focusable Output (Spot/Flood); Rotating reflector adjusts beam focus from 1 to 15 degree;"
*Question:* _"simultaneously exellent peripheral llighting"_ => does this mean at the same time peripheral lighting? So the 1°-angle would be only for the bright hotspot but around a lot of spill light/flood light, at same time? English is your mother language, how would you interprete these informations?

If there is really much spill light, it would explain these informations: Maxa Beam range is described on a shop site with 2 miles resp. 3500m, whereas the L70 range was described on a shop site with 1400 yards. If that is right, then the first impression of the L70 was probably really to good to be true.... :-/


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## Echo63 (Nov 3, 2012)

user73 said:


> @Echo63:
> Thanks again for the photo and the many usefull informations.
> 
> Charger: do you choose only the type of accu, or do you limit the current (to how much)?
> ...


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## user73 (Nov 3, 2012)

Echo63 said:


> I have 2 Maxabeam batteries, one is the stock nicad pack, and the other is a Sealed Lead Acid
> I typically charge the Nicad at 3.5A (0.5c) and the SLA at 1A (0.11c)
> I believe the factory maxabeam charger will charge the battery in 2.5 hrs - so it charges at a similar rate.
> What does it mean 0.5c and 0.11c?
> ...


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## Echo63 (Nov 3, 2012)

user73 said:


> Originally Posted by *Echo63*
> 
> I have 2 Maxabeam batteries, one is the stock nicad pack, and the other is a Sealed Lead Acid
> I typically charge the Nicad at 3.5A (0.5c) and the SLA at 1A (0.11c)
> ...


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## user73 (Nov 21, 2012)

Hi Echo

Thanks again for your informations.



Echo said:


> Charge and Discharge rates are typically linked to battery capacity
> for example - discharging a 750mah RCR123 at 1.5A is 2C (double the battery capacity) and is about the safe limit for a conventional lithium ion
> a 3400mah (3.4Ah) 18650 can be discharged at nearly 7A safely.
> my Nicad Maxabeam pack is 7Ah, so charging it at 3.5 Ah is 0.5c
> the SLA Maxabeam pack is 9Ah - but SLA batteries dont like high charge and discharge rates, so it gets charged at 1A or 0.11c


a) Thats is very intersting, but also strange. I learned that the reason why a accu takes damage from a too high current is the heat, or better said because there is not enough heat dissipation. There is no obvious relation between capacity and heat dissipation, so the reason behind your rule must be a different one, which adds to the rule that too much heat damages an accumulator.

b) Lets look at Li-Ions like 18650: Is there a rule of thumb with how much Cs Li-Ions can be charged and discharged?




Echo said:


> I dont know exactly how many lumens the L70 produces at switch on, or how long it takes to warm up fully, but it wont come on at full power straight away like the maxabeam does.


I found a chart about that and wanted to post it here for you, but unfortunately I can't find it now. The chart pretty much reads, that the L70 starts with zero lumens, and then it increases brightness allmost linear, till it reachs full output. Thats really a bummer.




Echo said:


> I started by buying a 6P and a Pelican M11 for work - now i have a bunch of lights, including 2 Maxabeams, 10 or so surefires


I have a LED Lenser P7 and bought now (its on the way) a SmallSun ZY-C10 and ZY-C10 plus TN31 from Saablaster. Besides the Maxa Beams, which is your favorite light?




Echo said:


> The L70 is still an Arc - but the added chemicals (metal salts i believe) ... take a while to vaporise ... As the chemicals warm up and vaporise (you can actually see them solidified in the bottom of a Hid bulb) the Arc itself gets brighter.


Wow, interesting, so cool that you see them vaporizing and vanishing. The fact that the brightness increases so linear is remarkable. I guess the heat is increasing almost linear, so the brightness must be correlated very closely to the heat.


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## user73 (Nov 22, 2012)

Hmmmm .... I prepared some Titanium L70 pictures for you. But it says at bottom "you may not add attachments". How did you manage to add own pictures?

Lets do it like this: At the end of the following site are some comperative beamshots beamshots 
http://www.lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Titanium%20Innovations%20L70%20UK.html


here some more:
http://www.lygte-info.dk/review/Beamshot 17 big lights 2010-04 UK.html


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## saabluster (Nov 22, 2012)

user73 said:


> Hmmmm .... I prepared some Titanium L70 pictures for you. But it says at bottom "you may not add attachments". How did you manage to add own pictures?
> 
> Lets do it like this: At the end of the following site are some comperative beamshots beamshots
> http://www.lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Titanium%20Innovations%20L70%20UK.html
> ...



You need a place to host your pictures such as photobucket. Then you come here to CPF and when you are creating a post you will see a button at the top of the box that looks like a picture. Click that and put a link there to your picture and it should show up here.


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## user73 (Nov 22, 2012)

saabluster said:


> You need a place to host your pictures such as photobucket. Then you come here to CPF and when you are creating a post you will see a button at the top of the box that looks like a picture. Click that and put a link there to your picture and it should show up here.


thank you 
and btw: I bought the Xtar charger which you recommended me, for a very good price on ebay.co.uk. Now everything is comming. I hope in two weeks I will have all parts together


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## Echo63 (Nov 22, 2012)

user73 said:


> Hi Echo
> 
> Thanks again for your informations.
> 
> ...


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