# Rebel - reflectors and optics thread



## HarryN (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi - with the end of life announced on the K2 product line, PL is attempting to move its customer base to the Rebel. While certainly the XP-G is getting a lot of attention, I have learned from the past that depending on just one supplier for any part can be a potential disaster. Trust me - I know.

With that in mind, I would like to open up this thead as a place for people to post their beam shots and other useful comments about the Rebel. The main attractions of the Rebel for me are really the small dome and the ability to buy very specific binned white color temps in small qty. The downside - I wish it put out 2x as much light.

There is no doubt in my mind that a Rebel does not have the output of an XP-G, so I expect most applications on this site will end up being multiple LED setups.

In case anyone wonders - no I don't work for Lumileds or get any compensation from them. I am just trying to find my way through the transition by testing various LEDs and learning from the experience of others.

Thanks

HarryN


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## jtr1962 (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm actually working on a project using Rebels for a customer right now (not flashlight related). We'll probably use these optics:

http://www.futureelectronics.com/en...cs/single-led-optics/Pages/3142387-10209.aspx

Another option not applicable for us but which might work for others are the Carlco 10mm optics:

http://www.futureelectronics.com/en...erSearch|10mm+rebel+optic|1|,Ny:True,Nea:True


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## HarryN (Oct 31, 2009)

Thanks - I am looking for two different applications I guess
- 4 of them, tight beam, one optic - no larger than 40mm
- 2 of them, tight beam - one optic - nominal 20mm dia

Some beam shots would be nice as well - certainly some people have used them.


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## BillyNoMates (Nov 2, 2009)

Hi

I've been pleased with the results from the RES optic range from Ledil.
http://www.ledil.fi/index.php?page=rebel_led

The RS and SS options produce a reasonably tight beam. These are 22mm square in their holders so may be big for some applications....

I'll try to do some beam shots if that will help. What are you after? A target on a white wall or some outdoor shots?


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## HarryN (Nov 2, 2009)

Hi BillyNoMates - Thanks - I was hoping you would post in this thread.

I have been reading the Ledil web site and data sheets for a while now, and it looks like they have nice offerings. The data sheets have very nice indoor white wall shots, so probably outdoor pictures would be more useful - even ones you already have. They data they have is nice, but a little short on Lux numbers, or even Lux per lumen data, or perhaps I am just missing it. If you have any input on that aspect, that would be really handy.

Any examples you have would be great, as I have several projects in the works. I noticed that they have a 4x and a 5x under development - could be interesting. I wonder if you only drive 4 rebels in a 5x setup if that would leave a donut?

Thanks and take care,

Harry


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## BillyNoMates (Nov 2, 2009)

Hi Harry

I'll see what I can arrange / dig out over the next couple of days in the way of pictures.

I've used the 5-up lens (RER-5-M), but I find it quite floody - it is a good general illuminator, but doesn't throw very far. It can be used without the centre LED if you want, because the beams from all the LEDs overlap by a metre away from the lens so there is no donut to speak of.

I don't have any lux data - just estimates from their quoted angles and efficiencies.


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## Linger (Nov 2, 2009)

I was thinking of the cri specified 100's, quoted as 105lumens / 350ma.
Biggest plus - cti specified per few hundred or 1000 (from luxeonstar.com, which is local shipping for me)
On the triple board, with a carlco optic. Prices seem fantastic.
If if goes well enough I"ll try it in a d26 drop-in. If its disappointing, I hope it will still make an excellent (warm tinted high cri) multi-emiter headlamp.
Any beamshots would be nice, only Rebel I've seen is a stock 060 in a 2AA mini-mag i got as a free add-on gift, and mag lights do their best work after the guts have been removed.


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## HarryN (Nov 3, 2009)

I put my name in the hat for the upcoming Ledil GT4-RE-S.

http://ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_GT4-RE.pdf

There is practically no data on it yet, but mechanically, the die sit on the same 17mm ring as RER-5-M with a 5x rebel setup, and the outer dia is virtually the same - 35mm - on the print. (no center die) This is handy for me, as I want to run them 2S x 2P, so 4 is a great combo.

The part number designation indicates it will be a narrower beam than the RER-5-M - so hopefully it will be.

I suppose now I need to get a board made and some Rebels on order so it all comes together about the same time.


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## Black Rose (Dec 2, 2009)

Anyone have an idea how the beam of a Rebel would look when used with a smooth reflector designed for a Lux I?

Replacing the reflectors is not an option, as they are part of the light engine assembly.


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## Linger (Jan 26, 2010)

that triple rebel 100 I mentioned in Nov. is done and posted up:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3253063#post3253063
The outcome is very satisfying. I've tested 4 bin-sorted rebels, 3 3000k's, 1 4000k. the 3 3k's all looked identical in beamshots. I've installed 2 3k and 1 4k in a triple and they blend perfectly with the carclo 20mm narrow triple optic. A few artifacts in the beam up close if you're white-walling, they diminish quickly. Very nice beam, good hot-spot, nice corona.


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## HarryN (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi, thanks for posting this. Is the lens the 10507, lens fronted, or the 10511, frosted fronted? Both are listed as Carlco 20mm narrow on their site.

Thanks

HarryN


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## Linger (Jan 27, 2010)

Glad this caught you,
http://www.luxeonstar.com/carclo-177Â°-tri-lens-with-holder-fits-rebel-leds-p-511.php
Looks like 10507. I thought it was 12.5FHW but looking up model number it reads 17.7FHW. Interesting.


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## HarryN (Apr 17, 2010)

Hi, I have been playing with Lumileds Rebels a bit. For those that don't follow them that much, you might be as surprised as I was to find just how many variations of "white leds" you can get the Rebel in.

http://www.philipslumileds.com/products/luxeon-rebel-white

I just finished counting them up, and there appear to be 17 different part numbers of "white" that you can get them in. You can specify them for:

- CCT (color temperature)
- CRI / Spectral output (see the data sheets)
- Lumen output

It takes a bit of reading the data sheets to see all the advantages / limitations of each spectrum, but for those that like to fine tune a light to their own tastes, this makes ordering exactly what you want pretty easy.

Like virtuallly all white LEDs, there are trade offs with any selection. Higher spectral content LEDs give up efficiency to obtain the greater spectral content and color quality. Higher CCT LEDs will tend to be more efficient, just like physics tells us will be true.

Anyway, I find it interesting, if a bit time consuming, to look at the spectral output charts.


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## saabluster (Apr 17, 2010)

HarryN said:


> I have learned from the past that depending on just one supplier for any part can be a potential disaster. Trust me - I know.


You must be referring to the Rebel epoxy debacle. 



HarryN said:


> Hi, I have been playing with Lumileds Rebels a bit. For those that don't follow them that much, you might be as surprised as I was to find just how many variations of "white leds" you can get the Rebel in.


I keep up with most all of the major players. I love the Rebel and don't think it gets quite enough respect anymore. The big thing they have over Cree right now is the availability of highish-CRI options. I am playing with some Rebels now doing some pretty incredible things(not CRI related). All in due time. I love technology.


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## Black Rose (Apr 18, 2010)

saabluster said:


> I love the Rebel and don't think it gets quite enough respect anymore.


I agree. I have lots of Cree XR-E based lights and bought a neutral white Rebel 90 to fill out an order to make the shipping cost worthwhile. 

I'm glad I did. I built a P60 drop-in with it and I am very impressed with it.

I prefer the colour of the neutral Rebel to the neutral Crees I have (Q3-5C) and the lack of Cree rings (XR-E) is a big bonus.

I doubt we'll ever see Rebel specific P60 reflectors, but it does work well with XR-E SMO and OP P60 reflectors. 

They also work with some XP-G reflectors. I tried it with the one that comes with DX sku 32953. It tightens the hotspot a bit more compared with an XR-E reflector but still looks good.


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## HarryN (Apr 18, 2010)

saabluster said:


> You must be referring to the Rebel epoxy debacle.
> 
> D[/URL]



Actually, no, but that is a good example. There have been times in the past when obtaining just plain vanilla Lux IIIs and Lux Vs was a challenge. Then there is the time I designed a light around the AW protected LiIon R CR2, which, no fault of his, became unavailable.


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## DM51 (Apr 18, 2010)

Useful thread - adding it to the Threads of Interest sticky


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