# Foursevens Preon P0



## shelm

*P0*

Hi everyone,
anyone?


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## apfevervictim

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

AWWWW *^%R&%#!!!!! I JUST ordered a Quark Mini AA and an Olight i3... Oh, well, CPF standards, order both, or all, or whatever. I don't have enough flashlights anyway!!!


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## Flying Turtle

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

I will most certainly be interested. But what is the UI? Wouldn't you know this pops up a couple hours after picking up a ThruNite Ti.

Geoff


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## jamie.91

If it's bright on a 10440 I'm in


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## Viper715

Count me in. It sounds awesome.


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## AlphaZen

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

If it's the standard l,m,h twisty you can count me out. I wold love to see a new UI. Starting in low every time and 5 twists to high just doesn't cut it for me. If it's something different, then I would be interested.


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## bltkmt

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

I am a sucker for AAA lights.


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## GaAslamp

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

Now I'm glad that I hesitated before "pulling the trigger" on a new 1xAAA flashlight.


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## jorn

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

Smaller than the DQG II ?


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## calipsoii

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*



AlphaZen said:


> If it's the standard l,m,h twisty you can count me out. I wold love to see a new UI. Starting in low every time and 5 twists to high just doesn't cut it for me. If it's something different, then I would be interested.



I believe the entire 4sevens line-up uses either the standard or tactical UI. I can't think of a 47's light off the top of my head that uses a different one. My expectation is that this will have the same UI as the Preon Revo.

It's already been mentioned that this uses a power LED so I'm curious to see if they've finally dropped the reflector and made a mule-style head. That would certainly shave length off and make the light smaller. It would also differentiate this offering from their existing 1xAAA Preon.


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## jabe1

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

I'll be getting one, if in neutral.


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## PhotonBoy

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

I'm a little gun-shy now with 4Sevens after buying a number of Preon Revo lights for myself and others in my family. I'm going to wait for at least 6 months after the intro to assess its specs, performance and most importantly, user feed back from others here at CPF.


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## Samy

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

Sounds good to me! Can't wait to see it!


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## UpstandingCitizen

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

The pic looks a little funny, but I'm definitely intrigued by the idea of this light.


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## hazna

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*



jorn said:


> Smaller than the DQG II ?



The smallest "current regulated" light. I have my doubts it's going to get smaller than the DQG II, but can't wait to see how it turns out.


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## jorn

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

So the DQG is not current regulated?
Mine seems to be. No pwm is used to change the levels, i like it a lot.

I'm defently going to end up with atleast one tba. Cant resist a tiny aaa  No pwm makes it even better


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## shelm

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*



4sevens said:


> Not necessarily a replacement as it has different feature sets. It's smaller in diameter and 21% shorter than a revo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We'll she's going to have to be maaaaaad
> 
> 
> 
> If it does take a fisher refill then it will be the smallest fisher custom ti pen. IF.


revo is 72.4-72.7mm (HKJ's and selfbuilt's review)
72.4 * (100-21)% = *57.2mm*
DQG is 56.6mm (HKJ's review)


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## Harry999

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

That's an interesting name - the tba!.

Is it of African origin?







Sorry!!! :shakehead


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## vali

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*



jorn said:


> So the DQG is not current regulated?
> Mine seems to be. No pwm is used to change the levels, i like it a lot.
> 
> I'm defently going to end up with atleast one tba. Cant resist a tiny aaa  No pwm makes it even better



It can be voltage regulated without PWM, like the Quark Mini AA


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## RedForest UK

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*

The mini AA does use PWM. Voltage regulation isn't real (flat output) regulation and I thought that the DQG uses a constant current regulation.


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## UpstandingCitizen

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*



4sevens said:


> Not necessarily a replacement as it has different feature sets. It's smaller in diameter and 21% shorter than a revo



So is this going to be a multi-mode light? Like two modes?


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## ico

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*



Harry999 said:


> That's an interesting name - the tba!.
> 
> Is it of African origin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry!!! :shakehead



It means "To Be Announced"


Sorry if I misunderstood your sarcasm though.


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## Harry999

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*



ico said:


> It means "To Be Announced"
> 
> 
> Sorry if I misunderstood your sarcasm though.



I shouldn't try to be funny that late in the evening when I am not thinking straight.


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## shelm

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

product name and footage found :huh:


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## UpstandingCitizen

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



shelm said:


> product name and footage found :huh:



I just noticed that their web site says the following about all 4Sevens items: "There are currently no products in this range."

I wonder if they're tweaking their site in order to list new product(s).


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## Z-Tab

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

If it's a single-mode "cell-crusher" that can be used with QTC, then I'm in. If it follows their regular UI, then I will pass.


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## UpstandingCitizen

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Pics of the 4Sevens 2012 catalog on this FB page:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.364172256931305.109448.114038305278036&type=1


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## yifu

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

I'll take one! If it comes out RIGHT after SHOT show. We've been waiting for a year for the E01 killer and i certainly won't wait any longer.


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## shelm

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

i'll take one if they ship it and i get a free printed 2012 catalog included!


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## GForGeep

I was just about to pull the trigger this morning and get my first quark, but now I guess I'll just wait lol


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## Hoosier Light

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

I keep checking CPF for news of the new light. Assume that whenever 4Sevens puts it out in Las Vegas one of you guys will be there and will fill us in on all the specs immediately.


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## shelm

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

hey people, it is not hard to guess that a titanium version will follow. The current name is "Preon P0-SS" instead of "Preson P0". What does that mean? It means that some other material version will be available "Preon P0-Ti" maybe??
4Sevens lights and Titanium. Often seen before. Even on the Preon series.

i am gonna get the Titanium version if you people like the stainless :nana:

i guess that weight matters more than size or am i wrong. If the light is under 10grams (iTP A3 is 9grams), then it cant be beaten. Klarus stainless is 18grams (11grams for MiX5).


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## jag-engr

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



shelm said:


> The current name is "Preon P0-SS" instead of "Preson P0". What does that mean? It means that some other material version will be available "Preon P0-Ti" maybe??


With the Preon ReVO, there was the Preon ReVO and the Preon ReVO SS. So the alternative may not be titanium, but plain aluminum. I suspect that a titanium light may be too far outside of the price point for this light.
Of course, if the light sells well enough, I'm sure anything is possible. Personally, I tend to prefer aluminum lights for weight, but, in this size, I'm not sure that it matters.


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## jorn

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

If it's as small as i think it it, then i wouldent like a alu version. 
The tube on my (ss) DQG II are leaf thin, imo way to thin for a alu construction. If the P0 comes close in size, it might have really thin walls. Time will tell. 
Another waiting game has begun


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## roadkill1109

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Cool! and a new logo to boot!


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## Woods Walker

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

All I see is a box and a "teaser" so why would I be in? I would need more info and maybe some CPF reviews. Just sayin.....


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## CarpentryHero

*Re: New AAA keychain light ©2012 4Sevens - the name: tba!!*



calipsoii said:


> I believe the entire 4sevens line-up uses either the standard or tactical UI. I can't think of a 47's light off the top of my head that uses a different one. My expectation is that this will have the same UI as the Preon Revo.
> 
> It's already been mentioned that this uses a power LED so I'm curious to see if they've finally dropped the reflector and made a mule-style head. That would certainly shave length off and make the light smaller. It would also differentiate this offering from their existing 1xAAA Preon.




I'd be up for a mule style preon to cut down length


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## moshow9

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



Woods Walker said:


> All I see is a box and a "teaser" so why would I be in? I would need more info and maybe some CPF reviews. Just sayin.....


Well it's current regulated, SS, looks to have 2 modes and will be under $25. While I would like to know the emitter and runtime, my interest is piqued and I will be happy to give one a shot.


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## Woods Walker

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



moshow9 said:


> Well it's current regulated, SS, looks to have 2 modes and will be under $25. While I would like to know the emitter and runtime, my interest is piqued and I will be happy to give one a shot.



I will be happier to read the reviews and then decide if this gear item is for me.

edit.

I do like the price point and SS for a very small pocket light.


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## shelm

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

the new website is located at 
http://www.foursevens.com/product-detail.html


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## ico

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

The website request for a username and password


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## Scubie67

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Does SS stand for Stainless Steel?


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## smokelaw1

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Hit cancel twice and it will take you to the site. However, that does not seem to get you to a fully operational site.


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## MCN

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Any word from the show about a delivery date?


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## Beacon of Light

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Do we know any details on this light yet? For those that have been at the SHOT show and actually held one or looked at the packaging, could they release some info or is it under sort of a gag order from 4Sevens until they decide to release details? Just anxious to see what this looks like on paper.


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## The Shadow

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



smokelaw1 said:


> Hit cancel twice and it will take you to the site. However, that does not seem to get you to a fully operational site.



Yeah, it looks like they're still building the new site. I couldn't find the Preon P0-SS on there either.

I must admit, this new light has my interest. I gave up on waiting for the E01 Killer they were supposed to debut at last year's show, but this light might serve that purpose. There's a thread on this light over at the Marketplace, but that site is down again. Let's hope the specs are released soon.


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## jag-engr

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Check out SwissBianco's pictures from the 4sevens Shot Show press release (*link*). In one of the pictures, it seems that David is holding up the light next to the battery - they are almost the same size!

Judging by the pictures in which the light is turned on, it seems the light may have only two levels!


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## shelm

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



jag-engr said:


> Check out SwissBianco's pictures from the 4sevens Shot Show press release.


tiny'ed the url to

*http://tinyurl.com/72w8mhs*


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## calipsoii

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



jag-engr said:


> Check out SwissBianco's pictures from the 4sevens Shot Show press release.


Link pls

Edit: thanks! Seeing it compared to the AAA battery, I stand by my reflector-less guess.


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## jag-engr

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



calipsoii said:


> Link pls


Sorry about that.



calipsoii said:


> Seeing it compared to the AAA battery, I stand by my reflector-less guess.


I think you're right that it won't have a reflector, but I think that it will have an optic - like the DQG Tiny Light and Fenix E05.


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## jag-engr

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



jorn said:


> If it's as small as i think it it, then i wouldent like a alu version.
> The tube on my (ss) DQG II are leaf thin, imo way to thin for a alu construction.


I got one of the first runs of DQG Tiny Lights, and mine was aluminum. I was very thin, but it held up fine. Of course, the natural ano on the aluminum DQG lights is amazing. A typical ano, especially a black ano, would not hold up as well.


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## Hoosier Light

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



Beacon of Light said:


> Do we know any details on this light yet? For those that have been at the SHOT show and actually held one or looked at the packaging, could they release some info or is it under sort of a gag order from 4Sevens until they decide to release details? Just anxious to see what this looks like on paper.



Yes, please, you who have seen it let us know.


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## Onthelightside

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Nutnfancy was there yesterday. Keep an eye on his page for a booth review.


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## shadeone

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

swissbianco has closeups on his facebook page now including the back of the box... high = 25 lumens, low = .25 lumens
XPE


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## OCD

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Here is a working 4Sevens Link. One posted previously worked if you deleted everything after the .com.


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## jorgen

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

That's very close to the output I was hoping for from the Thrunite TI. I'm in.


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## RedForest UK

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

That GITD in the lense looks great, if they can guarantee centering the LED that well then I'll have to get one. The wide angle of the TIR looks like it'll give a really wide floody beam too.


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## jtrucktools34

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Pre-Order is OPEN!!!

It's on the old 4sevens site at the bottom of the Preon Page! 

Happy Shopping!

Jtruck


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## stickx

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

I was really hoping for something special. But per the 4sevens site it is a 2 mode twisty with:
Low: 0.25 OTF lumnes (120 hours)
High: 25 OTF lumnes (1.5 hours)

I was expecting more in range of 80 lumens on high. And it has a magnet in the base which is fine unless you carry it near cards with magnetic strips on them like I do - the magnet screws with the magnetic strip. I like the DQG II much better, especially with the GITD tail.


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## MCN

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Just ordered one. What can I say -- I couldn't resist. :shrug:


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## davidt1

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

As I have predicted, this light appears to be an E05 competitor/killer. I was hoping for a higher low and a higher high. I might still buy one if the beam is more floody than the E05.


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## chris975d

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

And the tactical pen is "hiding" right in the middle of the main page. $99 though...ouch! 



jtrucktools34 said:


> Pre-Order is OPEN!!!
> 
> It's on the old 4sevens site at the bottom of the Preon Page!
> 
> Happy Shopping!
> 
> Jtruck


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## IRONMANq

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Just ordered one. What can I say -- I couldn't resist. :shrug:


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## The Shadow

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



davidt1 said:


> As I have predicted, this light appears to be an E05 competitor/killer.



The E05 is rated for 27 lumens at 2 hrs, 50 min. This Preon only does 25 lumens for 1.5 hrs. Could that mean it has better regulation and is able to keep 25 lumens through the entire 1.5 hour runtime? That would be nice!

How about 0.25 lumens? Can anyone give an accurate description of how low that really is? I'm thinking 'Mag Soli with a weak battery' dim???


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## calipsoii

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Not a bad looking little light and the price is right in impulse buy territory. Think I'll hold out to see if he offers a NW version.


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## shelm

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

the upper comparative candidates are well regulated:

Klarus AAA XP-G R5, 26lm : 5.7hrs
Revo AAA XP-E R2, 19.8lm : 5.7hrs (Revo is brighter than Klarus, maybe 27lm)
Eagletac 2xAAA XP-E R2, 22lm : 6hrs
Lumintop AAA XP-E R2, 23lm : 6.8hrs
Tiablo AAA XP-G R5, 30lm : 5hrs
iTP AAA XP-E Q5, 18lm : 4hrs
Fenix AAA XP-G R4, 27lm : 2.8hrs
P0 AAA XP-E, 25lm : 1.5hrs

:huh:


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## TomH

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



stickx said:


> I was expecting more in range of 80 lumens on high. And it has a magnet in the base which is fine unless you carry it near cards with magnetic strips on them like I do - the magnet screws with the magnetic strip. I like the DQG II much better, especially with the GITD tail.



Maybe the new Streamlight Protac 2AAA would be more to your liking. 80 lumens high / 10 lumens low with NO magnet.

http://www.streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=253#


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## AlphaZen

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Well, I like the levels and the size, and if it is reflectorless, the floody beam. I just don't like having to twist several times to get to the usable level. I understand the desire to have a <1 lumen low, and having that come on first, but how many lights have to cater to this. If it's going to, I Prefer the interface of the Thrunite Ti. But for now I'll be sticking with my E05, because this did not 'kill' it for me.


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## Diablo_331

The Shadow said:


> The E05 is rated for 27 lumens at 2 hrs, 50 min. This Preon only does 25 lumens for 1.5 hrs. Could that mean it has better regulation and is able to keep 25 lumens through the entire 1.5 hour runtime? That would be nice!
> 
> How about 0.25 lumens? Can anyone give an accurate description of how low that really is? I'm thinking 'Mag Soli with a weak battery' dim???



It's bright enough to mess up your night adapted vision. The .09 lumen on my Sc600w and the .1 lumen on my sc51c are too bright alot of times. 
I'm still finding this to be an interesting light. I'll hold out until someone beats one around and posts the results here. If its in the league of the Eiger and LD01 in this area then it only makes sense to add it to my "little light" collection.


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## shelm

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

i am only concerned about the tint. the facebook pictures indicate that the tint is very ..


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## Diablo_331

shelm said:


> i am only concerned about the tint. the facebook pictures indicate that the tint is very ..



I will be holding out to see if a neutral comes to be.


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## ergotelis

Before 4sevens comes and verifies my words, i am quite sure that the runtime we see is on a Alkaline battery, not AAA nimh eneloop like in the test.

BTW preordered.


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## RedForest UK

I thought that at first too, but then alkalines are normally good performers at such low current draws so I'm not sure why that would lower the runtime by much. 

It was pointed out to me on BLF that the pictures look as if the light doesn't use a TIR lense, but in fact has a sort of E01 type semi-reflector behind a glass lense which is itself coated with GITD particles, this could also explain why the light looked so even flood in the video of the 4sevens press conference. As this 'semi-reflector' would only be 'semi-reflective' (that sounded good in my head  ) however, it would cut off wide angle light from the LED and could lead to the reduced overall lumen output OTF.


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## shadeone




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## jag-engr

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



stickx said:


> Low: 0.25 OTF lumnes (120 hours)
> High: 25 OTF lumnes (1.5 hours)





The Shadow said:


> The E05 is rated for 27 lumens at 2 hrs, 50 min. This Preon only does 25 lumens for 1.5 hrs.


This is surprising. I would think that a current regulated light would perform substantially better than a normal light.



stickx said:


> And it has a magnet in the base which is fine unless you carry it near cards with magnetic strips on them like I do - the magnet screws with the magnetic strip. I like the DQG II much better, especially with the GITD tail.


I wonder how deep and wide the cut-out is on the tail and how hard the magnet is to remove - perhaps the magnet could be removed and a trit vial could be epoxied in.



The Shadow said:


> How about 0.25 lumens? Can anyone give an accurate description of how low that really is? I'm thinking 'Mag Soli with a weak battery' dim???


It's hard to say exactly what 0.25 lumens looks like, as a lot of manufacturers claim widely different outputs on low, but the outputs are often remarkably similar. However, the MagLight comparison is probably pretty close. It's a definitely a useful level at night, especially for a nightstand light.


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## twl

There are some things I like about it, and other things I don't like.
The first thing I'd have to do is dig that magnet out of it somehow. 
Second, I'd hope and pray that it comes on in high mode. A quarter-lumen ain't what I have in mind when I turn on my flashlight.

I really like the small size.
I like stainless steel construction.
I like the price range.

As it is, I doubt this could bump my EO5 off my keychain but I'll have a look at it. The smaller size is the lure for me.


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## RedForest UK

The E05 is also current regulated, I think the lumen loss is due to the optical design of the P0..


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## The Shadow

twl said:


> Second, I'd hope and pray that it comes on in high mode. A quarter-lumen ain't what I have in mind when I turn on my flashlight.



Looks like it comes on LOW.

From their website: http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=297_332&products_id=2846

Operating your Preon P0 is simple. Insert the battery with the positive side (+) toward the head. To turn it on, tighten the bezel (head) fully. The Preon P0 will turn on when the bezel is tightened, and turn off when the bezel is loosened. To switch between High and Low output, turn the Preon P0 off and then on again within 1 second. *If the Preon P0 is turned off for 2 seconds or longer, it will revert back to Low. *


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## twl

Bummer!

I understand why they are having it turn on low.
But, I don't have to tiptoe past sleeping babies or wake up a grouchy wife, or worry about being captured behind enemy lines.
I just want a flashlight that lights up when I turn it on. 

Looks like the E05 ain't getting bumped off my keychain.


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## Beacon of Light

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

The Thrunite TI is .04 lumens and is a nice low low. The .25 lumens is actually a little higher than the Quark Moonlight mode of .2 lumens. Should be a nice light since it is like others have said the idea 2 modes the Thrunight SHOULD have been. Actually I like the .04 lumen low, I just wish the high was 20-30 lumens instead of 60 for the Thrunite.



The Shadow said:


> The E05 is rated for 27 lumens at 2 hrs, 50 min. This Preon only does 25 lumens for 1.5 hrs. Could that mean it has better regulation and is able to keep 25 lumens through the entire 1.5 hour runtime? That would be nice!
> 
> How about 0.25 lumens? Can anyone give an accurate description of how low that really is? I'm thinking 'Mag Soli with a weak battery' dim???


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## ergotelis

RedForest UK said:


> I thought that at first too, but then alkalines are normally good performers at such low current draws so I'm not sure why that would lower the runtime by much.



I am quite sure about my statement, 4sevens is used to write runtimes on alkalines. THe AAA alkalines still can't perform that well in such currents, it is still quite high for them. 

I am expecting 2,5 hours on high in eneloop!


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## aaronu

*Re: New AAA keychain light -- Preon 0*



shelm said:


> revo is 72.4-72.7mm (HKJ's and selfbuilt's review)
> 72.4 * (100-21)% = *57.2mm*
> DQG is 56.6mm (HKJ's review)



Preon 0: 55.8mm long 12.7mm wide 13g
DQG II: 56.6mm long 12.6mm wide 12g (spec says 57.5mm long)

Practically a tie. You'd have to tighten down the heads and line them up to tell that the Preon 0 is a mite shorter.

Using 4Sevens' specs, the Preon 0 runtime at 0.24 lumens is 120 hours -- 5 days of continuous moonlight. FWIW the Preon ReVO goes for 2.8 days at 1.5 lumens on the same battery.

The DQG II runs at 5 lumens/10 hours and 60 lumens/1 hour. Seems to me that while the Preon 0 and the DQG II are the same size, their different output levels keep them from being direct competitors. Almost like the DQG II is a good compromise between an Arc AAA, E01 or Preon 0 and something like a ReVO, Maratac or ITP AAA light.

I gotta admit, I'm really tempted to pick up a Preon 0 -- so far I've had great luck with 4Sevens products.

Aaron


----------



## Beacon of Light

*Re: New AAA keychain light -- Preon 0*

Anyone notice the new versions of the Quarks have a min output of 1 lumen? Did they ditch the Moonlight modes?


----------



## UpstandingCitizen

*Re: New AAA keychain light -- Preon 0*

The purported run times are an extreme disappointment and will likely force me to look elsewhere.

I just don't understand why the run times would be that bad.


----------



## shelm

*Re: New AAA keychain light -- Preon 0*



Beacon of Light said:


> Anyone notice the new versions of the Quarks have a min output of 1 lumen? Did they ditch the Moonlight modes?


neither do *their new icons* (pictograms) follow the FL-1 Standard (Water Resistance, Beam Distance, Impact Resistance, Peak Beam Intensity, etc.) which Fenix was the first to print on its packages.


----------



## Labradford

*Re: New AAA keychain light -- Preon 0*

I was hoping for a ReVo-like light...ah well :sigh:


----------



## aaronu

*Re: New AAA keychain light -- Preon 0*

Not a ReVO replacement, but still a nice light and very, very small. Sort of a mini ReVO with just low and medium, no high output. I just pre-ordered a Preon P0. I don't know that it will knock my ReVO SS off the keychain but I'm sure I can put it to good use just the same. :0)

Happy to see 4Sevens cooking up new stuff.


----------



## aaronu

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



AlphaZen said:


> Well, I like the levels and the size, and if it is reflectorless, the floody beam. I just don't like having to twist several times to get to the usable level. I understand the desire to have a <1 lumen low, and having that come on first, but how many lights have to cater to this. If it's going to, I Prefer the interface of the Thrunite Ti. But for now I'll be sticking with my E05, because this did not 'kill' it for me.



I've gotten used to twisting my ReVO SS as needed, and this one is a bit simpler so IMHO it's no big deal for me. This is not a tactical light, but I understand why ppl would want to start out on high output.

From reading the description this light *does* use a reflector, so I guess for some that's another strike against it. But it is supposed to be floody.

Cheers,

Aaron


----------



## RedForest UK

ergotelis said:


> I am quite sure about my statement, 4sevens is used to write runtimes on alkalines. THe AAA alkalines still can't perform that well in such currents, it is still quite high for them.
> 
> I am expecting 2,5 hours on high in eneloop!



I hope you're right, let us know when you've tested and 4sevens could end up selling a lot more of these than otherwise! 

I don't understand why most manufacturers send lights with alkaline cells in, according to ANSI you have to give the runtime/outputs with whatever batteries you package it with when sold. But if manufacturers sold them with energizer lithiums in then it would only cost them a little more and they could advertise much higher output/runtimes on the packaging, it seems well worth it from a marketing viewpoint.


----------



## edc3

I agree with shadeone and Mr. Walken, I'd like more knurling. I'm not crazy about the looks of the light, but I like the levels, the "floody" beam and the UI. Not a bad price point either. I was hoping for an E05 killer as opposed to an E01 killer, so I will definitely be in for one. I love my E05, but having a low level is a big plus for me.


----------



## shelm

swissbianco owns a copy already! he bought one at the SHOT and loves it since.


----------



## skyfire

this looks so promising, i have an E05, and sometimes wished it has a lower mode.

but those stated runtimes are horrble, i hope its a typo. going to have to wait on its verdict before trying it out.


----------



## Hoosier Light

The runtimes are indeed terrible. I know nothing about making a light efficient, but I can't believe 4Sevens couldn't do better.


----------



## jorn

The runtimes are prob on the alkalines that the light are sold with. Ansi rules or something. I remeber something similar in anoter quark thread just after 4sevens started with ansi messurement. Everyone got conserned about the runtimes on the newest s2 versions. The new s2 versions had "less" lumens and less runtimes than the old r5. The spec said so, but in reality they just had to start following other rules to put the word "ansi" on the box i guess.


----------



## Gadgetman7

I hate to say this but I see nothing in this light that appeals to me. I have A Revo on two keychains and they have been fantastic lights. My wife has a Fenix E05 that I got for $5 less than this light. Maybe I'm missing the attraction of this light but it almost looks obsolete.


----------



## jorn

The attraction is it's size, current regulated, simple two modes. But mostly it's size. My DQG just dissapear in my keychain and i just love the size. Got lots of different aaa lights, but stopped using them all when i got my tiny DQG. I cant say that the DQG is better than my liteflux lf2xt, univex, or other lights, but it's smaller, a lot smaller. So it bumped every aaa light i got off the keychain.. It's going on a keychain so imo it's better off without (pocket eating)knurling. Im pretty shure i'll like the P0 just as mutch as i like the DQG.


----------



## shelm

jorn, please let us know in a detailed comparison which one you like more, the DQG or the P0. Runtimes arent very important, but the actual perceived brightness (the power to illuminate things in close and medium distance), beam pattern and tint.

maybe most of all, tint.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Do we know when these are shipping out?


----------



## 127.0.0.1

it is had some aggressive knurling (or just strips of it) just like Thrunite Ti do I'd get some


looks too slippy to operate one-handed with cold bare hand
Thrunites dig right in and easy to operate even with a dry sticky O ring


----------



## madecov

I already have one, I got mine at SHOT
It's a nice little light.
I ordered a whole bunch of 4sevens stuff at SHOT and it was at the house before I was.


----------



## SikDMAX

I played with this thing at the SHOT show 4Sevens dinner as well as in the booth - an extremely quality piece in my opinion! I will be picking one up for the GF to have on her keyring. Will be interesting to see what the runtimes are like on a nice NiMh.


----------



## my#1hobby

Just one concern, my car key has a chip in it and the manual says to keep away from strong magnetic fields. Is the magnet on the light really strong? I would hate to ruin my key.


----------



## shelm

madecov said:


> I already have one, I got mine at SHOT


nobody is willing to describe the beam (beam pattern and TINT)


----------



## UpstandingCitizen

my#1hobby said:


> Just one concern, my car key has a chip in it and the manual says to keep away from strong magnetic fields. Is the magnet on the light really strong? I would hate to ruin my key.



Dang, why would they put a magnet on a keychain light? :thumbsdow


----------



## madecov

shelm said:


> nobody is willing to describe the beam (beam pattern and TINT)



Pure flood with almost no hot spot. Tint on mine is nice, slightly warm


----------



## Flying Turtle

I kind of consider the magnet a selling point (or for me a buying point). I've glued magnets to the ends of three or four lights. This saves me some work. I do try to not carry one next to a credit card, and neither is one on my keychain.

Geoff


----------



## Viper715

Well I've got one purchased. I think this will bump my Preon 1 HCRI off of EDC rotation I think it'll be headed for the marketplace. I have mainly used low and it's been too high for me and medium will be fine for most other tasks. If I need brighter one of my other 3 lights I usually carry should do the trick.


----------



## Samy

Once I see a review I think I'll get a couple! I like this concept.

Cheers


----------



## Viper715

What got me finally to order was nutnfancy just put up his 4Sevens/foursevens shot show booth review and in it there was a better look at the light. The tint seemed a little on the warm side and the beam was smooth. The low was still visible on a hand at 5~ inches or so under shot show lights and the high was a good choice for me for his type of light so I had to at least try one out. If I don't like it it wasn't a hugely expensive light and I should have no problem selling it in the marketplace. If I like it there will be several bought over the next year for presents.

http://m.youtube.com/?rdm=4pauejozx&reload=3#/profile?user=nutnfancy&v=ucrqc1MQXjA&view=videos


----------



## jorn

Nice video. your link is for mobile phones btw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucrqc1MQXjA 
The p0 is 18 min into the vid.
Asperic lense tuned for full flood (something like the old zebra's). Reminded me of the DQG, even got the glow stuff and magnet 
Seems like a alu version would have been too thin walled.


----------



## Viper715

Sorry about the mobile link I didn't realize it. Thanks for fixing it. Yeah similar to the DQG for sure but I like the levels on this better. Yeah I heard where David mentioned aluminum would be too thin. I also like the idea of a a 2 CR123 mini.


----------



## jorn

I don't know about the levels since i got no asperic (all flood) light with so lo level yet. My zebra h30 low mode is 2 lumen with a all even flood beam. It's extremely wide and feels kind of dim compared with lights with a more consentrated beam and a hotspot. But from the vid, the P0 seems to be spot on for me in terms of brightness levels and "tinyness"  Hoping for a future neutral run


----------



## Burntrice

The magnet and lovely looking beam has done it for me, just ordered one.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Am I out of the loop or what? Watching the video, Nutnfancy was talking to David like 4Sevens was going to consider making a custom headlamp for him or an improved design of the Fenix. It was funny because David was looking like, "okkkkkkkkkk yeah sureeeeeeeeeee" about doing some one off custom light for some guy.



Viper715 said:


> What got me finally to order was nutnfancy just put up his 4Sevens/foursevens shot show booth review and in it there was a better look at the light. The tint seemed a little on the warm side and the beam was smooth. The low was still visible on a hand at 5~ inches or so under shot show lights and the high was a good choice for me for his type of light so I had to at least try one out. If I don't like it it wasn't a hugely expensive light and I should have no problem selling it in the marketplace. If I like it there will be several bought over the next year for presents.
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/?rdm=4pauejozx&reload=3#/profile?user=nutnfancy&v=ucrqc1MQXjA&view=videos


----------



## Viper715

I know that 4Sevens did a special run of pink Preon 1's for PFI dudes web store which is for nutnfancy. Past that I don't know. I think nutnfancy is just a little different and it's gar to know how to take him.


----------



## shelm

so the aspheric lens is actual glass and no plastic (polycarbonate) lens?

( if i drop the thing from 7 feet (incl. my keys), what will break first? and if something breaks by such a drop, is it covered by 10yrs performance guarantee warranty policy or what )


----------



## pjandyho

Honestly, I really dislike the look of the Preon PO but I ordered one anyway, together with the tactical pen. Just got to keep supporting 4sevens for what they are doing for us. I know that if I don't like it, I could always give it away as a gift.


----------



## moshow9

Video review from swissbianco

[video=youtube;prywLCS-FRI]prywLCS-FRI[/video]


----------



## shelm

looks like a ~160° flood. perfect!!
i also like the green tint because it is a beautiful green and you cant decide if it's actually a blue tint and not the ... greenish tint of an xpg or xml.

i think the tint is called turquoise
!!!


----------



## gbelleh

I like the GITD reflector a lot. The price is good. But I wish the magnet was optional, or at least easily removable. I know I don't want my keychain light sticking to everything else in my pockets. And I've never had the need to stick my light on anything yet. I'll stick with my ReVo for now.


----------



## applevision

gbelleh said:


> I like the GITD reflector a lot. The price is good. But I wish the magnet was optional, or at least easily removable. I know I don't want my keychain light sticking to everything else in my pockets. And I've never had the need to stick my light on anything yet. I'll stick with my ReVo for now.



+1. I love the idea of a magnet in the base but don't really think I'll use it in my keychain light since it's attached to my keys which are pretty heavy... at the same time, I'm a little worried about having a strong magnet in my pocket in terms of messing with credit cards and such.


----------



## AnAppleSnail

applevision said:


> +1. I love the idea of a magnet in the base but don't really think I'll use it in my keychain light since it's attached to my keys which are pretty heavy... at the same time, I'm a little worried about having a strong magnet in my pocket in terms of messing with credit cards and such.



I have kept hard drive magnets next to my credit cards biking to and from class with no problems. A hard drive magnet is much more powerful than this. The BEST way to erase magnetic media is a rapidly changing magnetic field - a magnetic eraser flips North/South quickly to scramble things. A magnet won't do that under normal conditions.


----------



## The Shadow

shelm said:


> looks like a ~160° flood. perfect!!
> i also like the green tint because it is a beautiful green and you cant decide if it's actually a blue tint and not the ... greenish tint of an xpg or xml.
> 
> i think the tint is called turquoise
> !!!



WOW! That really is GREEN. For anyone who's seen it in real life, is it that bad? Or maybe it just looks that way on the video?


----------



## madecov

The Shadow said:


> WOW! That really is GREEN. For anyone who's seen it in real life, is it that bad? Or maybe it just looks that way on the video?



Mine is just very cool, not green at all.


----------



## calipsoii

The Shadow said:


> WOW! That really is GREEN. For anyone who's seen it in real life, is it that bad? Or maybe it just looks that way on the video?



Wonder if the green GITD material is coloring the beam at all...


----------



## tbenedict

One thing to keep in mind, this is a flood light, so it will not seem as bright as a light with a reflector/hotspot.


----------



## applevision

AnAppleSnail said:


> I have kept hard drive magnets next to my credit cards biking to and from class with no problems. A hard drive magnet is much more powerful than this. The BEST way to erase magnetic media is a rapidly changing magnetic field - a magnetic eraser flips North/South quickly to scramble things. A magnet won't do that under normal conditions.


Thank you for this... this makes it a little more tempting... I want to read reviews!


----------



## Burntrice

*Your order has been updated to the following status.
New status: Shipped


*​Woot!


----------



## Viper715

Yeah mines on the way as well.


----------



## squaat

I'm going to wait for the reviews. I don't think this will displace my SS ReVo, but it might make an awesome gift light (previously the itp A3 and now the Thrunite ti). Tad concerned about the runtime. Especially for a gift light to non flashaholics who don't carry backup lights or batteries.


----------



## edpmis02

Is it confirmed it is 1.5 hour hour runtime using Eneloops?


----------



## shelm

edpmis02 said:


> Is it confirmed it is 1.5 hour hour runtime using Eneloops?


no its not.
in the nutnfancy booth review David said something about "normal Alkalines" and "one humple triple A".

but let's get real. on an Enveloop runtimes wont be significantly higher. high performance Cree LED just drag any kind of cell to early :sick2:

great booth review btw, thanks nutnfancy!! ( is he a cpf member? )


----------



## reppans

Happy to see the moonlight and the runtime seems about right given the capacity of the AAA. Quite surprised at the runtime for the 25 lumen level though, that seems proportionately low compared to 4Seven's AAs and the Revo is supposed to do nearly 6 hrs on a AAA @ 19 lm. What gives?


----------



## jorn

In the vid David says it's underrated and does more like 30 otf lumens. Asperics is less efficient compared to a reflector for gathering the light from the led. In this case it's a flood tuned asperic so the lense is really close to the led. With a 130 degree beam angle on the led, im sure there are some lumens lost compared to a reflector. Even with the lense close to the led. Who knows the actual current draw?


----------



## 1anrm

Woot! mine shipped today! Can't wait. 
Noticed today that my Preon 1 with clicked turned on in my pants, it'll be nice to edc something much smaller and a twisty so it wouldn't accidentally turn on.


----------



## moshow9

Looks like mine are on the back end of the preorder as I didn't receive my shpping notice. Maybe tomorrow


----------



## vali

Waiting for the first reviews with charts


----------



## swxb12

Doesn't the Fenix E05 achieve 25+ lumens for nearly 3 hours on Eneloop? One of my favorite EDC lights.

Hoping for the same type of runtime on this light with rechargeables. An even wall of light is very useful and easy on the eyes for general EDC usage (for my needs, anyways) and the versatility of the super long running low could make this a winner.


----------



## AlphaZen

In HKJ's review of the E05, he got about a full hour more of runtime out of the Eneloop vs. alkaline, so even at lower voltages the Eneloop still outperforms. My point is that there is still a high probability that the runtime numbers on the package of the Preon 0 are less than you'll get on a good nimh cell. According to this runtime test of the E05, he got 5-6 hours on a lithium primary, so there is hope for that as well.


----------



## RedForest UK

Ok, the runtime charts on HKJ's review persuaded me to pre-oder 

David says it's really 30 OTF. 30 for 1.5 hours is still pretty poor but HKJ's review shows the E05 adding 50% to the runtime when using eneloop over alkaline AA. This leads to an estimate of 2hrs 15mins with an eneloop on the P0. I'm guesssing the slight loss in lumens from the E05 is due to the lense type, the P0 doesn't look quite like traditional TIR and more like an aspheric type with semi-reflective GITD backing. 

Still 30 OTF for 2hrs 15 isn't bad at all. I measured my iTP A3 (XP-E std ed.) at only 60 OTF in reality and that goes for 50 minutes. When considering the P0 uses XP-E not XP-G it seems also in line with the Fenix LD01 R4 which does 78 OTF for 45 mins or 30 OTF for around 3 hours as XP-G is around 50% more efficient than XP-E (at standard flux bins Q5 and R5). I'm assuming this uses XP-E R2/R3 depending on optical losses in the lense set-up according to these estimates.


----------



## Flying Turtle

Knew I wouldn't be able to resist for long. Pulled the trigger this morning and have already received the "shipped" notice. In spite of just getting the ThruNite Ti, I decided this one is different enough to try. Sounds like it will occupy a niche truly its own.

Isn't that just like a flashaholic to come up with some lame justification for a new light.


----------



## hiuintahs

Thought I'd throw a run time graph up for you guys. I use freshly charged Eneloops when doing these run time tests. I compared against an Olight i3 which most of you are familiar with. Looks like the circuit has good regulation and pretty efficient. In fact a little better than the i3 on medium.......which was the mode that is closest to the P0. Run time was 186 minutes.
Updated chart: run time with lithium cell came in at 306 minutes on high.


----------



## SikDMAX

Wow.... over 3 hours! David... bump that spec number up a bit!


----------



## mcdj

finish looks a bit dodgy in that pic.


----------



## Beacon of Light

wow you got your P0 quickly or did you get one at SHOT?


----------



## hiuintahs

mcdj said:


> finish looks a bit dodgy in that pic.



If you are referring to the run time graph that is pretty normal to have the output taper off like that at the very end on a boost regulator circuit. Pretty much all brands of lights have the same phenomena.

Since the voltage of a single cell is very low to begin with, electronic parts in the driver circuit are the low voltage types and they typically operate down to 0.8 volts +/- some tolerance. So as the cell reaches its exhaustion and can no longer supply the current for regulation, the driver circuit is still functioning and takes whatever it can from the cell. The decay then becomes an exponential equation.

Unless there is a built in comparator circuit to shut down the driver at a certain voltage, you will see this curved decay at the very end. A comparator circuit just adds extra cost and most don't do it. Besides I think there is some benefit to the light fading out as it gives a warning while there is still some usable light.


----------



## squaat

hiuintahs thanks so much. that's what i was waiting for.... order sent!


----------



## Ralls

Thanks for the runtime graph hiuintahs (been there, btw). I was almost positive that it would run better on rechargables because most current-regulated lights do. I'd be willing to bet that runtimes are even better on lithiums. Don't know what's up with all the naysayers? 

This light looks like a winner in my book. I like that it comes on on low first and that it's a low low. While I would prefer a lower low, I don't think it will matter because of the flood beam. I also like that it is a simple two-mode light - i don't like it when a product tries to be something it is not and generally a AAA light is not a high output monster, so a low low and medium flood AAA light is perfect for me. The fact that it's stainless steel is nice and the price is hard to beat at $25 shipped! 

I ordered mine yesterday and got a shipping notice this morning. I didn't expect these to start shipping out so soon. Looking forward to putting one through its paces.


----------



## skyfire

thanks for the runtimes...

you just helped 4sevens sell another P0 :thumbsup:


----------



## Streamer

same here...one on the way. Really excited to see what it can do on lithium primaries. 

Hiuintas, thanks for the runtimes man !!!
I knew it had to be better than 1.5 hours with an eneloop. 

I'm In. And for $25 shipped... gotta love it.


----------



## shelm

thanks for the runtime graph on "High-mode". ~3.1hrs? quite good! And how would _you _describe the beam's tint? i guess that one advantage of an aspheric lens is the uniformity of the beam (and tint, mostly).

at this point i dont see any need to hurry. there's gonna be the DQG Tiny III in Titanium later this year, and maybe the Preon P0-Ti with a NeutralWhite beam. And i am eager to see beamshots. The turquoise tint looks nice on the video, but i might prefer a pure white tint with no coloration.

There has been Quarks in Ti, Preons in Ti (various Ti variations. shiny. satin. ..), pens in Ti, wistles in Ti, etc. in Ti. -- let's bet that the P0 will be available one day in Ti too. maybe even satin 

thanks again for the Eneloop measurement.


----------



## tbenedict

I have yet to own a Ti light. Sure is purty, but I prefer smooth threads on a twisty.


----------



## andrew123

It's stainless steel, so you would still not have a Ti light. But it could be your first stainless one!


----------



## smokelaw1

Shiiping notice received, AAA eneloops ordered. Excited for the new pocket light. Might not kick the ARC AAA off the keychain (many have tried....) but will be a nice "other pocket" option. Loving that low level for not quite middle-of-the night, almost dark adaapted, don't both my wife level....


----------



## chris975d

I received both of my P0's yesterday, and overall, they seem like pretty good lights. For me, the low setting is almost useless, as it's a very low output plus being complete flood means anything more than about 12-18" from the light is barely illuminated. Plus, living in the city, my ambient light is always enough to drown out that low amount of light. But, for someone in a completely dark room, or outside (away from the city), I could see how it'd be just bright enough to look at a map (very close to your face), get things out of your pocket, etc. Now the high setting is quite nice for such a small light. I've never had a complete, even flood light like this, and I see why so many people like this light pattern for an EDC. A nice big, completely evenly lit 12 ft circle in front of you makes doing up close tasks a breeze. And the tailcap magnet could come in handy. I'm actually already working on making a neck lanyard with another small magnet built into it, so that the P0 can attach to it quickly to be neck carried, yet pop off with a quick tug when you need to use it. 

All in all the P0 is a great little light, and the runtime graphs already shown in this thread show that it's going to have quite a bit of runtime on high. For me, the only thing that could make it better as a secondary EDC light (which is where it fits in my rotation) is for it to be offered with only the high mode. I dislike having to twist any light though modes I will never use.


----------



## shelm

Technical questions:

1. anything about operating voltage?
2. support for 10440's?
3. support for protected 10440's?


----------



## Mr460mag

Mine is on the way Can someone please give us runtimes on lithium primaries, I can not wait.


----------



## shelm

more info on the press conference:


----------



## Beacon of Light

Very good presentation. I was thinking he should have had the battery comparison with the Preon P0 on the projector to see how strikingly small it is. Seeing it on the big screen in addition to it in his hands would make a bigger impact.


----------



## tbenedict

andrew123 said:


> It's stainless steel, so you would still not have a Ti light. But it could be your first stainless one!



I meant to quote shelm on that post. I've had stainless, it doesn't feel like it is galling near as bad.


----------



## GuyZero

Do any of the lucky P0 owners also have an E05 that they could compare the beam too? I don't need beamshots or anything, I'm just curious how wide of an angle the beam spread is in comparison. The one thing that keeps me from EDC'ing my E05 is that I like to have a long-running low mode in case I find myself in an extended emergency. The P0 addresses that, but I'm not sure I'll want a beam that's too much wider spread than the E05.

Have any of you tried walking down a trail with the P0? Does it seem like enough light to illuminate 10-15 feet in front of you, or does it give you the sort of reverse-tunnel-vision effect that the old Zebralights do, where it lights up all the close stuff in your periphery but doesn't throw enough to light up the actual trail. That always creeps me out...


----------



## Houdiny

Mine shipped today as well, not more than one (!) hour after I had ordered it! Absolutely fantastic work at almost the speed of light, FOURSEVENS!


----------



## Harry999

I will definitely be ordering a Peon PO or two when I place my next FourSevens order in about a week or so. The footage convinced me. I love flood beams. BTW I am surprised no one has commented on David's point about a FourSevens headlamp with 2,000 lumens output!!! I am interested!


----------



## hiuintahs

Guys, I updated the chart in post #142 to also include run time with an Energizer L92 lithium battery. Run time came in at 306 minutes.


----------



## RedForest UK

Wow, that's what I mean about manufacturers including alkalines with their lights. If they spent around $0.30 more per package they could advertise ANSI 5hrs runtime instead of ANSI 1.5hrs. It would be a massive selling point, I seriously don't get why people haven't cottoned onto this yet..


----------



## Sno4Life

Harry999 said:


> I will definitely be ordering a Peon PO or two when I place my next FourSevens order in about a week or so. The footage convinced me. I love flood beams. BTW I am surprised no one has commented on David's point about a FourSevens headlamp with 2,000 lumens output!!! I am interested!



What time is the comment in the video? I didn't catch that the first time through.


----------



## AnAppleSnail

RedForest UK said:


> Wow, that's what I mean about manufacturers including alkalines with their lights. If they spent around $0.30 more per package they could advertise ANSI 5hrs runtime instead of ANSI 1.5hrs. It would be a massive selling point, I seriously don't get why people haven't cottoned onto this yet..



I wonder if Energizer pays a licensing bonus to flashlight makers to include the alkies with the lights...


----------



## shelm

RedForest UK said:


> It would be a massive selling point, I seriously don't get why people haven't cottoned onto this yet..



"we want to underpromise, and overdeliver" -- that's what David repeatedly stated in the nutnfancy booth review and in the goinggear press conference video. if you insert the **itti*** cell you can find in your house in the Preon PO, you'll get the 1.5hrs runtime for sure. as promised on the packaging. non-flashaholics who insert NimH's or lithium's will be stunned by the ongoing runtime and talk enthusiastically about the product "hey, you get much more runtime out of the product if you DONT use Alkalines! what an amazing product!!" and the reputation of the product (and the company) grows. long-term effect. Those customers will think highly of 4sevens, eventually get interested in the subject, visit the website and maybe buy a Preon P2. David wins.

if you state 'this product can run over 300 min.' and it's not a promise but people will take it as such and may feel tempted to test it. They take an Alkaline and fail, take an Enveloop and fail. At that point they give up and begin to think bad about the product (and the company).

a neutral and fair way to convey runtimes would be:
"Max-mode Runtime w/ Alkaline: 1.5 hrs
Max-mode Runtime w/ Eneloop: 3.1 hrs
Max-mode Runtime w/ Lithium: 5.1 hrs"

if we agree that this looks **itt* and too confusing to the average lady and you had to choose a single line, which one would *you* choose?

the clever marketing decision is to keep it low. and underpromise.


----------



## AlphaZen

I could be wrong, but I guess that most average consumers don't get too worked up about the runtime from a single-aaa light, or they don't really have a basis for comparison to make it relevant. It is probably only us flashoholics who scrutinize it, and the Foursevens team knows we will sort it out ourselves. Shelm has a good point about their marketing approach, which I happen to agree with. It IS better to under promise and over deliver. Look at how many people reading this thread went out and bought one when they realized the light is better than what they originally thought. We are lucky to have people who are willing to take the time to do runtime tests and share it with us, because we DO care about the runtime. Thanks hiuintahs:thumbsup:


----------



## MCN

Just got mine today. My initial reactions:

Material: Love the stainless steel. Looks good and presumably is strong for the size.
Size: Fab. Just what I was hoping for on my keyring.
Magnet: Potentially useful, I carry anything it could damage in another pocket, so no issue for me.
GITD: Meh
Appearance: Seems a little too fancy and the polished bits are likely to get scratched up fast.
Grip: The satin/polished finish is a little too slick. If they had even gone with a slightly rougher brushed finish it would have been better.
Beam: The floody beam is potentially useful although I don't have any other lights like that so I will need to live with it for a while to see how useful it actually is.
Tint: Weird greeny tint. Not exactly my cup of tea, but ok I guess.
Really crappy thing: the worst switch debounce I've ever encountered. You've got a 50/50 chance of the light starting in the mode you expected. Maybe if I go after it with some Caig Deoxit things will be better -- haven't tried yet, but I really shouldn't have to on a brand new battery/light.


----------



## Got Lumens?

AlphaZen said:


> I could be wrong, but I guess that most average consumers don't get too worked up about the runtime from a single-aaa light, or they don't really have a basis for comparison to make it relevant. It is probably only us flashoholics who scrutinize it, and the Foursevens team knows we will sort it out ourselves. Shelm has a good point about their marketing approach, which I happen to agree with. It IS better to under promise and over deliver. Look at how many people reading this thread went out and bought one when they realized the light is better than what they originally thought. We are lucky to have people who are willing to take the time to do runtime tests and share it with us, because we DO care about the runtime. Thanks hiuintahs:thumbsup:


+1
I was going to write something very simular. They are marketing this light to many others that use and know AAA's, the non-flashaholic.
Thanks Hiuintahs for your testing. 
Mine won't arrive until at least Saturday when I will do a review also.
GL


----------



## smokelaw1

Got mine, love it. Low is perfect for night time use around the house. 
I do have a stupid question, though....what can the magnet damage? Can I have it in the same pocket as an iphone without messing with the phone/memory? Thanks all.


----------



## RedForest UK

Yeah, I see what everyone is saying about underpromising. But I know many people do compare runtimes on lights and buy according to the numbers on the package, 4sevens could at least mention that this light will run for 5+ hours on a lithium cell, that would at least get people thinking about using lithiums and I think would increase comparative sales. Many people order online and simply do a quick comparison of output/runtimes listed between similar lights, it's only us on CPF that will see the actual runtime graphs.

I work part-time in a small supermarket (still completing my degree) and when people come in and ask for batteries they have no idea of any differences other than the 'Duracell lasts longer' marketing rubbish. I simply asked what they'd be using them for and if it was low-drain recommended the better value Panasonic alkaline cells and if high drain explained how lithiums lasted much longer. We'd had around 15 packs of lithiums on the shelf sitting for months before I started doing this and within a few weeks of me doing this (and I'm only in on Monday evenings) they were sold out. The people I'd told once remembered next time and got lithiums again even if I wasn't there next time. Unfortunately the owner didn't decide to get anymore in and the people who had now learned about lithium cells were dissapointed when they came back for more in the future, as they had to go somewhere else. 

The point is that most people are willing and perfectly able to learn that lithium cells are better in high-drain applications, they just don't even consider it until they are told or see it advertised.


----------



## MatNeh

Why is the design so similar to the DQG II? Small size, 2 modes, glow ring, magnet, optic. Was there a collaboration between the two companies, or is there just 1 design that makes sense in this form factor?


----------



## sspc

I'm really impressed by the reported runtime. I'm really into single cell lights and have been on the hunt for an inexpensive AAA to EDC. 

The only thing holding back is the magnet. I love the thought of a magnet, but I have accidentaly magnetized a couple movements in my automatic watches by somehow getting them too close to magnets. So I worry about that possibility as this light would always be on me.

So I'm still undecided between the Preon P0 and the Thrunite TI


----------



## Viper715

Got mine in today! Great little light and I'm loving the magnet mount. I haven't seen it mentioned though I could have missed it mine came with a small magnet that could be used to mount it on the other side of say fabrics. Nice thing to include. The beam is real nice and even flood. My only dislike is it is a cooler bin. Mine is slightly blue and the edges show green from the glow powder. Other than that I love it and will probably get at less 1-2 more.


----------



## The Shadow

MCN said:


> Tint: Weird greeny tint. Not exactly my cup of tea, but ok I guess.





Viper715 said:


> My only dislike is it is a cooler bin. Mine is slightly blue and the edges show green from the glow powder.



Guys - thanks for the honest reviews. Like most of you, I was caught up in the hype and was getting ready to order one. But blue, green, or purple tinted LEDs always disappoint me. Other than that it looks like a nice little light. I'll wait until they offer one with a neutral tint (or something better comes around).

Thanks to everyone who posted.


----------



## Flying Turtle

Got mine today. This thing is tiny. Very unique little light. No problem with the tint. The green is coming from the glowflector that it uses and only seems noticeable when the light is almost touching a white surface. Beware that the magnet can come out. Mine pulled straight out of its seat. I pressed it back in and it now seems tight.

One handed use, at least until it loosens up, is tough. Being so small and smooth makes it a two-hander. After spending a couple weeks with a ThruNite Ti I was concerned the Preon might seem too bright on low, but its pure flood changes things. In fact at its 0.04 level the Ti actually throws a bit better, but, of course, it's really a different animal.

Can't wait for night to give this little guy a good test.

Geoff


----------



## shelm

Flying Turtle said:


> The green is coming from the glowflector that it uses


so a neutralwhite or warmwhite or highcri tint wouldnt help after all. the turquoise glowflector ruins it maybe


----------



## moshow9

Wow! I know it's been mentioned that the P0 is only slightly bigger than a AAA battery, and David even held the 2 up side by side for comparison at the press conference (@SHOT), but this light is so much smaller than I imagined.

I ordered two but only 1 works , so I'll be contacting 4Sevens (foursevens) for a possible exchange depending if any solutions can be found. This is the first light I have owned that has a magnet. I've never had a use for one prior and don't know if I will like this particular feature. Then again, there may come a time when it could prove useful. As the saying goes, it's better to have something and not need it, than to need something and not have it. 

Tint seems good to me. Once the sun goes down I'll be able to test this a bit more. Other than the first couple of twists, action is smooth and I'm able to operate it one-handed. All in all this is a very nice keychain/backup up close light, and small enough to where there is no reason not to have and carry one daily. I do wish a spare o-ring had been included but I may not have looked closely enough when I unboxed.


----------



## Got Lumens?

I can hardly wait to get mine. Is the magnet removable? The Ramble Iotas can come out.
GL


----------



## Viper715

I may have over stated the green tint. It is just the outside edge that looks green to me. The rest of the beam is very cool to me. I would prefer a nice neutral, warm or HCRI, but I would still by another one even if a special run is never done. But I do hope to see it in one of the above stated flavors. 

I've found all types of places to use this light with the magnet. The shelve supports in my room the curtain rod in the shower, even right next to me in bed I've attached it to my spoon on my coffee. The flow powder was still shining well enough to locate the light after 4hours. I'm really liking this light.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Got my P0s today and I'm pretty impressed. Exactly the kind of light I was expecting and waiting for for years! Low low is very low and the nice even flood is perfect. As said before, it is TINY and even though I saw the size comparison to a AAA battery, it is much smaller once you see it in person! The bead blast is nice and the glow in the dark in the bezel is a nice touch. For the price this is a no brainer! FOURSEVENS knocked it out of the park with this one!

EDIT: Not sure if the Thrunite Ti is correct with the quoted 60 lumen high as the 25 lumen high on the P0 (maybe due to the flood nature of the beam) seems to the eye just as bright as the Thrunite. I'll try to get comparison beamshots in an hour or so. Maybe David REALLY underspec'ed the high lumens on this as it does seem much brighter than 25 lumens.


----------



## Streamer

Beacon of Light said:


> Got my P0s today and I'm pretty impressed. Exactly the kind of light I was expecting and waiting for for years! Low low is very low and the nice even flood is perfect. As said before, it is TINY and even though I saw the size comparison to a AAA battery, it is much smaller once you see it in person! The bead blast is nice and the glow in the dark in the bezel is a nice touch. For the price this is a no brainer! FOURSEVENS knocked it out of the park with this one!
> 
> EDIT: Not sure if the Thrunite Ti is correct with the quoted 60 lumen high as the 25 lumen high on the P0 (maybe due to the flood nature of the beam) seems to the eye just as bright as the Thrunite. I'll try to get comparison beamshots in an hour or so. Maybe David REALLY underspec'ed the high lumens on this as it does seem much brighter than 25 lumens.



*Wow, this should send those potential buyers that were sitting on the fence scurrying to 4 Sevens website to order. LOL

Beacon of Light, how is the mode changing? One reviewer here said sometimes the Hi would come on first unexpectedly. Some sort of "mode bouncing" as he termed it.*


----------



## Viper715

My personal experience is mode changing is very consistent.


----------



## Got Lumens?

Flying Turtle said:


> Got mine today. This thing is tiny. Very ....
> Beware that the magnet can come out. Mine pulled straight out of its seat. I pressed it back in and it now seems tight. ...
> Geoff


Flying Turtle,
Can the magnet be removed if wanted to?
GL


----------



## Fusion

Wondering if this light might have a easter egg in the programing....


----------



## gbelleh

I went ahead and ordered one. For the price, why not? That would be great if the magnet is removable, it would make it a whole lot more versatile to me. If not, it should at least be a good nightstand light.


----------



## Beacon of Light

I noticed this at first but that was only when I didn't discern how hard to twist to turn it on. Once you know the threshold it is fine. But if you turn it on and it is in low if you tighten further it flashes on high intermittenly. Once it turns on low just don't further tighten. Problem solved.



Streamer said:


> *Wow, this should send those potential buyers that were sitting on the fence scurrying to 4 Sevens website to order. LOL
> 
> Beacon of Light, how is the mode changing? One reviewer here said sometimes the Hi would come on first unexpectedly. Some sort of "mode bouncing" as he termed it.*


----------



## tbenedict

Are the threads fairly snug? Sounds like these will be great sellers...but I'm still hoping for a neutral version. 

I bet it won't be long before someone tries to get into the head.


----------



## Flying Turtle

I don't expect the magnet to come out again, but it did once. It seems to be just press fit in its seat. I didn't see evidence of glue. Probably should have put a dab of superglue in there when I had a chance. I would be careful to not leave your magnet behind. Maybe to rock it off a real solid attachment instead of pulling straight, as I did when the magnet came out.

After playing with this light in the dark a few hours I'm very pleased. Wouldn't call the tint green, except up real close and only on the edge, like Viper mentioned. 

Geoff


----------



## Streamer

Flying Turtle said:


> Probably should have put a dab of superglue in there when I had a chance. Geoff



I think you are so right. I would definitely do the same.

On the other hand, there are a few here that will be happy now that they know it can be removed.


----------



## Got Lumens?

Thanks Geoff,
I can't wait until it gets here.


----------



## gbelleh

How strong is the magnet? Is it neodymium?


----------



## sassaquin

My UI was a bit wonky, but after a drop of Deoxit, it is working as it should. Also, after a light coating of fluorinated grease, threads are very smooth and one handed operation is no problem. I really like this pure flood light and can't stop playing with it.


----------



## Viper715

The magnets are very strong. I think they are.


----------



## Beacon of Light

*Preon P0 (left) Thrunite Ti (right) except for pic #3
*
Just to clarify, this Preon P0 is *Tiny. 

*


----------



## Got Lumens?

Beacon of Light said:


> *Preon P0 (left) Thrunite Ti (right) except for pic #3
> *
> Just to clarify, this Preon P0 is *Tiny.
> *


Thanks Beacon, Great pictures.
Do you have a Preon1 to compare?
GL


----------



## Viper715

A few pictures. 1 with my Victorinox SD Alox, 1 with the Preon 1 and clicky, 1 with mini AA, 1 with Surefire L1. Lastly a beam shot not a good one but both the Preon 1 HCRI and the P0 are on low.


----------



## Got Lumens?

Viper715 said:


> A few pictures. 1 with my Victorinox SD Alox, 1 with the Preon 1 and clicky, 1 with mini AA, 1 with Surefire L1. Lastly a beam shot not a good one but both the Preon 1 HCRI and the P0 are on low.



Thanks Viper,
Wow! The P0 is really small! The beam tint does not look that terrible. Waiting for mine to come Saturday. 
And also waiting for the NW and HCRI P0 limited runs 
GL


----------



## kaichu dento

Viper715 said:


>


Eric, I laughed when I saw these pics, but with these pics and Beacon's take on the levels definitely has me in for one!


----------



## Viper715

Hey Pete, I tried to do something a little different glad you enjoyed it. I'm really liking this light. I just need neutral now and maybe a lower low. LOL. 

I have to ask anyone try a 10440? Just kidding!


----------



## Got Lumens?

I second Kaichu dento,I really like your shot of the P0 inside the MiniAA.
Thanks again Viper
GL


----------



## vinhnguyen54

Anyone dare to try 10440 in the Preon 0 yet??!!


----------



## Got Lumens?

vinhnguyen54 said:


> Anyone dare to try 10440 in the Preon 0 yet??!!


I would suspect that will happen Vinny with the cost of it much less than the 123s. 
But I dunno. 3V-4.2V vs. 1.5V-4.2V in this... It might not work for long, or at all. 
I won't be trying it on the only one I have coming. Are you planning on trying it?
I too would like to know the results also.
GL

Edit: I am trying HCRI MiniAA with a AA-2 body when this one comes in with it.


----------



## vinhnguyen54

*DO NOT RUN YOUR PREON 0 ON 10440!!!* Here is why: 














The XPE is mounted directed onto the Driver and then the driver is pressed into the aluminum pill with no heat transfer to the body at all! So if we assume that the driver can handle the 4.2V Li-ion like the ITP A3 then LED will still burn in matters of seconds due to no heat relieve!


----------



## hazna

how easy is it to operate the light one-handed? Does the lack of knurling and smooth surfaces make it difficult to use?


----------



## coolperl

Looks like it uses even the same circuit as DQG.


----------



## ergotelis

Looks like the same driver, but hope that they didn't do the same mistake like in DQG, and protect the driver. This was the weak point of DQG. Using eneloops, i had 2 fails from DQG and one of a friend of mine! 
If they did not protect the driver, they will have dozens of rma with all the classic consequences...


----------



## Zendude

Wow! Thanks for the disassembly vinhnguyen54. Is the glow powder glued to the same board as the LED? I hope not. I assume the LED is surface mounted which might make it tricky to swap out without desoldering the components on the other side of the board. :shrug:


----------



## Kilovolt

Streamer said:


> *Wow, this should send those potential buyers that were sitting on the fence scurrying to 4 Sevens website to order. LOL
> 
> *




It did, it did ... :devil:


----------



## shelm

Is there any rear spring in the back/bottom of the body? And can you fully tighten the head as in the iTP A3 where its PCB is fully pressed against the body tube and because of that you cannot tighten the head further?

so then basically this is a battery crusher like the DQG II.

If you try to fully tighten it, you will both crush the battery and the PCB.

The DQG III has support for 10440's, has a higher Hi, has the NeutralWhite LED option (+1.00$ extra), and is made out of Titanium. It lacks the 10yrs performance guarantee and the perfect finish though. Let's see if Ric can offer a group buy again..


----------



## jorn

coolperl said:


> Looks like it uses even the same circuit as DQG.


Yes i think so too. The difference seems to be the DQG uses a brass pill insted of alu.


----------



## GuyZero

If someone has time, I'd love to see a pic of the P0 standing next to an AAA on one side and an AA on the other, for size comparison.

-Guyzero


----------



## Viper715




----------



## GForGeep

Ty for the awesome comparison pic. Now I really want to get one.


----------



## jsmitty1967

Another comparison phot against the DQG tiny light. I was shocked to see the P0 is 1/4" shorter and the head is the same diameter as the DQGs body. I am loving it so far. The tint is a little funky but that is my only gripe.


----------



## dandism

coolperl said:


> Looks like it uses even the same circuit as DQG.



Yea, I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed at how similar this flashlight is to the DQG tiny rev. 2.


----------



## Hoosier Light

Is the battery loose (like the DQG) when the P0 is turned off?


----------



## moshow9

Hoosier Light said:


> Is the battery loose (like the DQG) when the P0 is turned off?


I don't own a DQG myself but there is no battery rattle when the P0 is off.


----------



## Flying Turtle

Here's a little size comparo pic of Preon and some AAA friends. No battery rattle, Hoosier.







Geoff


----------



## vinhnguyen54

Just wrap aluminum foil tightly to make negative contact instead of the spring. Well you have to wrap anyway for heat sinking


----------



## GuyZero

Thanks for the comparison pics, Viper and Flying Turtle! WOW - that thing really is tiny! Most of those other AAA lights look like they could swallow the P0!


----------



## Viper715

So does any one think the low is higher then stated? I just got my V10R back and supposedly the low on it is 1 lumen and the V10R is an order of magnitude dimmer than the P0. Even if the V10R is much dimmer than stated say .1 lumen that would put the P0 at 1. I don't know just wondering.


----------



## Zeruel

I hope to see a side-by-side comparison pic with DQG II.


----------



## tbenedict

Viper715 said:


> So does any one think the low is higher then stated? I just got my V10R back and supposedly the low on it is 1 lumen and the V10R is an order of magnitude dimmer than the P0. Even if the V10R is much dimmer than stated say .1 lumen that would put the P0 at 1. I don't know just wondering.



The low on my V10A is a lot lower than my Quark XPE or SC51W.


----------



## jvarn81

Flying Turtle said:


> Here's a little size comparo pic of Preon and some AAA friends. No battery rattle, Hoosier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff



Gotta get this one, tiny, I love it


----------



## Beacon of Light

Here's the pic requested of the P0 compared to a Preon I. 






[*Left to Right: Preon P0 / Thrunite Ti / Preon I*]


----------



## twl

Is there something unusually difficult in just having a clean white beam?
I would think that would be a fairly high priority in something like a flashlight.
Are these flashlight makers so involved with features that they forget the basics?


----------



## shelm

twl said:


> Is there something unusually difficult in just having a clean white beam?


the DQG Tiny II has an all-flood clean white beam. and you can choose between coolwhite (XP-G R5 LED option) and Neutralwhite (XP-G R4 LED option). it's a matter of taste.

i find a turquoise tint highly original (or funky).


----------



## Got Lumens?

I have a possible solution. Everyone post the tint of thier P0. Then everyone could choose the exact tint of the cree binned leds they want. 
It could possibly set a record for the largest CPF swap ever.


----------



## Streamer

Tint was not a factor in my decision to purchase the P0. Remember the E01? Honestly, I balked for MONTHS on NOT buying one because of the Purple, ugly, puky, cast out from Hell purple/blue color. 

Well I finally caved in and got my first E01... Guess what? I could see in the darkness... tint was of no concern... Bought 3 more E01's to boot. Gosh... it's great to learn, even if it's the hard way.

Can't wait to get my hands on the P0. Just may need to find my way out of a cave some day.
Tint Snob? Not me. :nana:


----------



## Flying Turtle

Viper715 said:


> So does any one think the low is higher then stated?



I'm thinking the low on mine may be as much as 0.5 lumens. Just basing this on a ceiling bounce comparison to my ZL SC50w.

Geoff


----------



## ama230

sspc said:


> I'm really impressed by the reported runtime. I'm really into single cell lights and have been on the hunt for an inexpensive AAA to EDC.
> 
> The only thing holding back is the magnet. I love the thought of a magnet, but I have accidentaly magnetized a couple movements in my automatic watches by somehow getting them too close to magnets. So I worry about that possibility as this light would always be on me.
> 
> So I'm still undecided between the Preon P0 and the Thrunite TI



You could always take a lighter and heat up the magnet end of the P0 and let it cool down(rinse and repeat a few times). Then you have a light that is what you describe, a light without a magnet. If you want you could magnetize it again if need be. 

A possibility and if you are good you could get it hot enough and dip it in water and get some cool colors on it. 

Does anybody else have a possible solution?

Thanks,
Eric


----------



## Got Lumens?

I can't wait until morning, mine will be here. :rock:
I have a good light meter. This will be my first try at getting 1m lux readings with a <1 lm light. 
I am wondering if I will get a reading of the glow powder:nana: 
I am sure by the pictures that the size, weight, and finish of the P0 will far outweigh the tint of the beam. 
GL


----------



## Flying Turtle

Flying Turtle said:


> I'm thinking the low on mine may be as much as 0.5 lumens. Just basing this on a ceiling bounce comparison to my ZL SC50w.
> 
> Geoff



Recalculating.... Just stuck a new battery in the ZL (I'm thinking it's about 0.2 lumens) and did the ceiling bounce comparison again. The Preon seemed just a bit brighter, so maybe the 0.25 rating is pretty close.

Geoff


----------



## swxb12

Just received mine today. Mode changing and turning the light on can be a iffy at times. Turn too much and u might go from off -> on -> off again, or even accidentally jump to high. A rear spring would probably alleviate this. however I can live with it being that this light is so tiny. Just have to be a little more careful when operating the light I guess. Not sure if I would gift this light to a "regular person" but I'll give it some time and see if things change.


----------



## swxb12

Here we have Fenix E05 left, P0 on the right (on high). 

The E05 shoots out a big hotspot, while the P0 is a giant moonbeam.

My E05 has what I consider to be a very white tint, so the P0 looks a little on the blue side here. To me, my P0 tint is cool white in real world usage, do not notice any blue or green. As others mentioned, there is some slight coloring on the edges, but you have to be white wall hunting from close range to notice that.


----------



## Got Lumens?

4 Sevens CPFMP is back!
GL


----------



## jorn

Got Lumens? said:


> I am sure by the pictures that the size, weight, and finish of the P0 will far outweigh the tint of the beam.
> GL


Same here, my DQG II has a green tint, battery rattle, etc. But overall it's a great light and i use it all the time. It learned me that i'm not the tint snob i tought i was, and that size and simplicity means more to me. 

Since the p0 is so similar to the DQG II, can anyone check the o-ring on the p0? The DQG has no room for a o-ring groove so it chews on the o-ring. Im hoping for the p0 to be a tiny 1/4 mm wider, and with a nice o-ring groove.


----------



## shelm

green tint on the DQG II? first time that i'm hearing this. Should have chosen the NeutralWhite emitter option 

yah, maybe a few more close-ups would be a nice contribution, thanks!!


----------



## jorn

I would if it were in stock back then. Some jerks bought them all before i noticed hehe  I hoped for a simple led swap, but it turned out to be close to impossible. But im still (to my suprice), really happy with my tiny greeny 
I got exited when i heared of the new ti run. And now this little p0 flood gem shows up. Im on the fence to see if there is going to be a neutral run. Good times for tiny aaa fans 

Really nice pictures. But I couldent tell if it's a groove there for the o-ring, or if the o-ring rides directly on the end of the threads.


----------



## NickBose

I wish 4Seven makes something like the "CQG S1 World's thinest CREE XP-G R3 1xAAA EDC Flashlight" with a deep pocket clip


----------



## Got Lumens?

I just got mine :wave:
I am impressed, I just opened it, and they have included a plastic reuseable hard storage case!
Way to go 4 Sevens. More later tonight.
GL


----------



## romteb

This is extremely similar to the DQG II, i hope Mr Duqingang has been associated to the marketing of the product, if not 4sevens better not go on whinning about being copied.


----------



## Streamer

Whoahhhhhh....DUDES.....just opened it up and played the last hour... This little torch is GREAT!

Can't believe the packaging...like jewelry. If 4 7's went Green on the packaging, we could probably get it for half price...LOL

User Interface..perfect. Manget's Great..

*GID :thumbsup:* What a GLOWER !

No bouncing around between modes. 
Low for nite navigation...Hi for lookin' 'round *LOvE iT !!!*


----------



## henry1960

Streamer said:


> Whoahhhhhh....DUDES.....just opened it up and played the last hour... This little torch is GREAT!
> 
> Can't believe the packaging...like jewelry. If 4 7's went Green on the packaging, we could probably get it for half price...LOL
> 
> User Interface..perfect. Manget's Great..*GID :thumbsup:* No bouncing around between modes.
> Low for navigation...Hi for lookin' *LOvE iT !!!*





Does this light stand up candle style?


----------



## Streamer

*Yes it does. *


----------



## shelm

romteb said:


> This is extremely similar to the DQG II, i hope Mr Duqingang has been associated to the marketing of the product, if not 4sevens better not go on whinning about being copied.


quick comparison between the two off the top of my head (strong points on one side would be the weak points on the other side; only strong points liste):

Preon P0:
+ better packaging
+ better looks. really elegant, classy.
+ better keychain attachment point
+ *better guarantee* (10yrs performance)
+ better machining, professional built quality
+ better o-ring solution
+ better brand, publicity, community feeling and popularity (More popular is better, right?)
+ better price & availability
+ better low (Lower Lo is better, right?)

DQG Tiny III:
+ better material (titanium)
+ better knurling
+ *better tint* (neutralwhite LED option, 1$ extra)
+ *better beam pattern* (smaller flood angle)
+ better high (Higher Hi is better, right?)
+ better LiIon support, 10440's
+ better exclusivity ( rev.I sold out, rev.II sold out, rev.III limited edition)

Why decide? Both are affordable, get them both. Support the makers of tiny lights! :thumbsup:


----------



## jorn

shelm said:


> Why decide? Both are affordable, get them both. Support the makers of tiny lights! :thumbsup:


I just got off the fence and ordered one. Im sure i can afford a neutral P0 or DQG when (if) it arrives


----------



## shelm

i hold the line behind the fence armed with some third-class AAA lights and my bit of pocket money.
got no problem with that *ggg*

drooling is part of the fun


----------



## Streamer

True Colors


----------



## jonnyfgroove

This thing looks too cool to not try one. Order placed. I hope they are tough enough to survive on my keys as long as my E01 has.


----------



## 4sevens

romteb said:


> This is extremely similar to the DQG II, i hope Mr Duqingang has been associated to the marketing of the product, if not 4sevens better not go on whinning about being copied.


It's nothing like the dqg - in fact it wasn't even inspired by it. I didn't know about the dqg until this thread.

By the way the glow in the dark piece is a a rubber injection part impregnated with glow in the dark material. It was a minor thing that was added near the end of the prototyping stage. 
It's one of my daughter's favorite things about the light


----------



## 4sevens

shelm said:


> quick comparison between the two off the top of my head (strong points on one side would be the weak points on the other side; only strong points liste):


I dont' know about the dqg but the P0 is FULLY currently regulated, efficiently using every little bit of the tiny AAA battery. Also I see our wider beam pattern as a plus. It covers almost your entire peripheral vision


----------



## mrlysle

I have a DQG II tiny, but it's in SS. (someone mentioned having one in Ti, nice!) Very nice little light, but has already been said, the keychain attachment point was not sturdy, and the magnet fell out right away. Fortunately, it was still stuck to some metal on my keychain. I was able to rework the wire coming through the body, and epoxied the magnet back in place. That being said, I also just ordered the little PO. It looks awesome! Can't wait to get it! These little AAA lights just disappear in your pocket. I'm thinking of keeping my PO in the "watch" pocket of my jeans. I love the keychain attachment point, and the magnet really is handy for hands free light placement. I think David's got a real winner on his hands here! Hope the tint is good. If I like it as much as I think I will, I'll get some more,and equip my wife and boys with one! Streamer's got me all psyched up for mine now!


----------



## Shooter21

I wonder why they chose the xpe for this guy. Cant wait to get mine i love how tiny it is.


----------



## 4sevens

mrlysle said:


> I have a DQG II tiny, but it's in SS. (someone mentioned having one in Ti, nice!) Very nice little light, but has already been said, the keychain attachment point was not sturdy, and the magnet fell out right away. Fortunately, it was still stuck to some metal on my keychain. I was able to rework the wire coming through the body, and epoxied the magnet back in place. That being said, I also just ordered the little PO. It looks awesome! Can't wait to get it! These little AAA lights just disappear in your pocket. I'm thinking of keeping my PO in the "watch" pocket of my jeans. I love the keychain attachment point, and the magnet really is handy for hands free light placement. I think David's got a real winner on his hands here! Hope the tint is good. If I like it as much as I think I will, I'll get some more,and equip my wife and boys with one! Streamer's got me all psyched up for mine now!


I wonder why there are so many revisions for the dqg - while collectors may see this as reason to collect but but maybe they are just fixing problems as they sell out the previous? We went through so many design iterations to make sure we got it right the first time. Before we make the final product we refine so many things - industrial design, manufacturing optimization, and usability to name a few.
By the way the P0's magnet is press fit so it should never ever fall out.



Shooter21 said:


> I wonder why they chose the xpe for this guy. Cant wait to get mine i love how tiny it is.


XPE vs XPG doesn't matter much at such a low drive level and optically it's the same since it's a flood-type light so we opted for the less expensive xpe to offer them at a lower price so more people can enjoy this little wonder 

By the way the P0's orders are streaming in so fast I don't think we'll make it through the weekend. We may be dry for a few weeks before the next batch comes in.


----------



## mrlysle

4sevens said:


> I wonder why there are so many revisions for the dqg - while collectors may see this as reason to collect but but maybe they are just fixing problems as they sell out the previous? We went through so many design iterations to make sure we got it right the first time. Before we make the final product we refine so many things - industrial design, manufacturing optimization, and usability to name a few.
> By the way the P0's magnet is press fit so it should never ever fall out.
> 
> XPE vs XPG doesn't matter much at such a low drive level and optically it's the same since it's a flood-type light so we opted for the less expensive xpe to offer them at a lower price so more people can enjoy this little wonder
> 
> By the way the P0's orders are streaming in so fast I don't think we'll make it through the weekend. We may be dry for a few weeks before the next batch comes in.


Good to hear David! Every light I've ever gotten from you has been great, and I'm sure the little PO will be no exception. (I still think the limited run 123x2 Turbo S3 in titanium I got in 2010 has some of the best machining of any light I have. It's perfection in every detail!) Best of luck to 4Sevens in the coming years!


----------



## shelm

in marshall's SHOT 2012 booth review it was mentioned that a Titanium version would look the same as the SS version. of course they will do (similar to Klarus MiX6 SS and Klarus MiX6 Ti). Titanium is even more resistant and lightweight.

but now i am thinking that titanium is not a good idea.
( btw, what would be destroyed first with a 10440 -- the PCB or the LED? :devil: )


----------



## Shooter21

Hi David any chance of a neutral version in the future? that would be awesome.


----------



## SikDMAX

Real pissed - ordered my P0 and have been watching the tracking - supposed to be delivered today. AWESOME! Ive been home working around the house all day in the yard - no postman... no postman.... check tracking... DELIVERED 1:08PM. NO MAIL AND NO POSTMAN!!!! Of course the post office is closed, and I drove all over the neighborhood but couldnt find my postman. One of my neighbors is enjoying my new P0


----------



## tsask

WOW just when I thought I didnt need another AAA light.. always good to see "Mr 7777 himself" here at CPF. WTG David. BTW I still think about "those mystery never released prototypes" mentioned a while back.


----------



## 4sevens

shelm said:


> in marshall's SHOT 2012 booth review it was mentioned that a Titanium version would look the same as the SS version. of course they will do (similar to Klarus MiX6 SS and Klarus MiX6 Ti). Titanium is even more resistant and lightweight.
> 
> but now i am thinking that titanium is not a good idea.
> ( btw, what would be destroyed first with a 10440 -- the PCB or the LED? :devil: )


Ti is not planned for the p0. There isn't much advantage with Ti. We already minimized the material to the uttermost so weight savings is minimal. And with the way we finish the titanium it would look pretty much the same with the high polish and bead blast - though stainless will actually wear better due to the harder surface. In the end it would just inflate the price. 

I haven't tried the 10440 but I'm pretty sure the circuit would blow first. 10440 isn't safe anyways - theres no way to include a protection circuit to protect both the cell and the light from going KB. Also the problem with dual 10440 and 1.5 AAA use is if your 10440 gets below 2.0v you might as well toss it. Trust me I've done enough testing with 10440's. The beauty of the AAA is that it's very widely available - shoot you can even used depleted AAA cells from your remote in the P0 - the circuit is THAT efficient!


----------



## 4sevens

Shooter21 said:


> Hi David any chance of a neutral version in the future? that would be awesome.


Not likely. As I have mentioned in the past the neutral runs we made last quarter have stopped selling are are stagnant. We can only invest so much into special runs. If they sell out (NW and Hi-CRI) then I'll be happy to make a run 



SikDMAX said:


> Real pissed - ordered my P0 and have been watching the tracking - supposed to be delivered today. AWESOME! Ive been home working around the house all day in the yard - no postman... no postman.... check tracking... DELIVERED 1:08PM. NO MAIL AND NO POSTMAN!!!! Of course the post office is closed, and I drove all over the neighborhood but couldnt find my postman. One of my neighbors is enjoying my new P0


I hope it turns up. Sometimes they'll scan it at the post office before the drivers go out but not make it on the truck. Let's hope thats the case 



tsask said:


> WOW just when I thought I didnt need another AAA light.. always good to see "Mr 7777 himself" here at CPF. WTG David. BTW I still think about "those mystery never released prototypes" mentioned a while back.


Thanks!  yeah those protos won't see the light of day. Maybe one day we'll offer a "Atlanta-delivery" program and include a warehouse tour where you'll be able to check out our prototypes for both release and never-released lights


----------



## SikDMAX

I hope it shows up too - but for now Im going to order another just in case it doesnt so I have one coming in case you sell out for now LOL

Thanks for posting David. 

Oh, and I believe a few pages back someone did try a 10440 and toast their light


----------



## henry1960

Streamer said:


> *Yes it does. *



Thanks Streamer....


----------



## shelm

thanks for your time!


4sevens said:


> from going KB


what's that? kah-boom?? 

lol


----------



## Shooter21

You're awesome David i wish more manufacturers would post on CPF. Cant wait to see some new products from you guys. I would love to see the maelstrom g5 with an XP-E emitter that would an insane thrower.


----------



## kaichu dento

4sevens said:


> I see our wider beam pattern as a plus. It covers almost your entire peripheral vision


Me too and I hope for the day when all close range lights will have as wide a spread to the spill. The only time I wouldn't want it would be in a mid to long distance beam pattern.


Shooter21 said:


> I wonder why they chose the xpe for this guy.


There's nothing wrong with the XP-E and the still very popular LF2XT came with one. Very nice beam pattern when matched to the reflector.


----------



## netprince

I just ordered one. 4sevens does make some unique lights. I'm looking forward to trying this one...


----------



## romteb

4sevens said:


> I dont' know about the dqg but the P0 is FULLY currently regulated, efficiently using every little bit of the tiny AAA battery



Exactly like the DQG II in fact their drivers look very similar.(look exactly the same actually)



4sevens said:


> It's nothing like the dqg - in fact it wasn't even inspired by it. I didn't know about the dqg until this thread.



Fair enough David, since you're not familiar with the DQG II let me show you some pictures so you can see why one could think (unfairly now that you have clarified the situation) that the P0 is a blatant copy of the DQG II (as many of us have been mislead to believe).


These are not pictures of the P0 but of the DQG II (yes that's a magnet in the tail) :


----------



## Burntrice

I'd love to know if a big brother is planned at all? A 1x rcr123 @ a couple of hundred lumens with this kinda of beam profile and a magnet.. where do i sign?

Also, still waiting for my P0  sometimes living on the other side of the pond is a little annoying


----------



## shelm

4sevens said:


> Not likely. As I have mentioned in the past the neutral runs we made last quarter have stopped selling *are stagnant*. We can only invest so much into special runs. *If they sell out *(NW and Hi-CRI) then I'll be happy to make a run


here some thoughts:
If the NW's and Hi-CRI's of the Quarks did *not* sell too well in the recent past, then i would guess it was because of the demanded higher investment from the buyers' part. For example during Black Friday Blitz Sale none of them were offered, so they seemed higher priced than the standard Quark LED's. And when someone wants 1 Quark product (because he/she doesnt *want to* afford more of them) then it's a bit of a long shot to buy the same Quark again at a higher price and only with an improved tint. My thought is: if there had been NW's and Hi-CRI's from the very beginning of the introduction of Quarks *and* at the same price *and* discounted equally during sales seasons, *then* they would have sold out *better* than the standard Quarks. But that's way in the past and it's too late now. Back to the present:



4sevens said:


> By the way the P0's orders are streaming in so fast I don't think we'll make it through the weekend. We may be dry for a few weeks before the *next batch* comes in.


From a marketing standpoint *now *would be the perfect point in time to run all(!) forth-coming batches in NW. This thread has shown that enthusiasm for the PO prevails and people are willing to order several copies, and even more copies if the tint was improved. The product is new, these days there is a big forward momentum in PO sales, people hop off their fences and do the little plunge, and it's the first big wave of PO sales. A successful start. These _same _people would very much likely buy (now again!) another copy/copies of the PO if it was already available in NW. Why? Because of the momentum and present enthusiasm for the novel product. The interest *now* in an improved tint is intenser than months later when the last ones have *already* left the fences (and spend the money on the PO-SS or something else, like the DQG) and the general first wave has waned. 
If you can offer a batch with NW's (the tint is the only repeated point of criticism in this thread and much easier to fix than other points like brightness on High (disappointing to many, 30lumens) and the very wide flood angle) _now_, we could promise you an increasing, growing first wave of sales (which includes re-buys by the 1st customers) and even more people joining the forward momentum.

The DQG Tiny III *is* your direct competing product, no doubt. It's the luck of the PO to be out first. First come, first serve. Wins. As soon as the DQG is back available (there are probs with the supply of Trits, which is a new feature in rev.III), the PO wave will wane and tint snobs and many others will get very interested in the DQG. And why would there be a wave for the DQG?

Because of the PO. The PO has set the tone, and the DQG has gotten considerable publicity and exposure. Free advertisement. The expectations are high, and the key feature of the DQG had always been its tint choice. No wonder that the DQG always got completely sold out. Legendary product.

The deal is: You offer the NW now, and the PO will be clearly the winner over the DQG (i.e. you win us all over) once and for all, and your first sales wave will *not* wane when the DQG becomes available(, which will be soon enough afaik).

Much of the above is speculation. But marketing experts with experience and knowledge of "when is the best point in time to introduce a release" might agree. (( i guess that the main reason *not* to have produced NW's from the very beginning is the investment. NW LED's are more expensive and this would have ruined the beautiful 24.99 point. so no reproaches by any of us. ))

Thanks for considering!!


----------



## jorn

Burntrice said:


> I'd love to know if a big brother is planned at all?


Not a big brother, but there is a big cousin out there. The DQG aa version takes a 14500 and is about 200 lumens.

They do look alike, but i guess this thing shapes itself when you want to shave off every mm of unwanted steel. They are different so why not have both. One with more throw and a huge hotspot, One with a huge all even flood.


----------



## tbenedict

I still think these and the A3/i3's both need to be sold in retail stores(particularly hardware stores). Just think of how these would sell if they were on a checkout counter with a chained demo.


----------



## Samy

shelm said:


> here some thoughts:
> If the NW's and Hi-CRI's of the Quarks did *not* sell too well in the recent past, then i would guess it was because of the demanded higher investment from the buyers' part. For example during Black Friday Blitz Sale none of them were offered, so they seemed higher priced than the standard Quark LED's. And when someone wants 1 Quark product (because he/she doesnt *want to* afford more of them) then it's a bit of a long shot to buy the same Quark again at a higher price and only with an improved tint. My thought is: if there had been NW's and Hi-CRI's from the very beginning of the introduction of Quarks *and* at the same price *and* discounted equally during sales seasons, *then* they would have sold out *better* than the standard Quarks. But that's way in the past and it's too late now. Back to the present:
> 
> 
> From a marketing standpoint *now *would be the perfect point in time to run all(!) forth-coming batches in NW. This thread has shown that enthusiasm for the PO prevails and people are willing to order several copies, and even more copies if the tint was improved. The product is new, these days there is a big forward momentum in PO sales, people hop off their fences and do the little plunge, and it's the first big wave of PO sales. A successful start. These _same _people would very much likely buy (now again!) another copy/copies of the PO if it was already available in NW. Why? Because of the momentum and present enthusiasm for the novel product. The interest *now* in an improved tint is intenser than months later when the last ones have *already* left the fences (and spend the money on the PO-SS or something else, like the DQG) and the general first wave has waned.
> If you can offer a batch with NW's (the tint is the only repeated point of criticism in this thread and much easier to fix than other points like brightness on High (disappointing to many, 30lumens) and the very wide flood angle) _now_, we could promise you an increasing, growing first wave of sales (which includes re-buys by the 1st customers) and even more people joining the forward momentum.
> 
> The DQG Tiny III *is* your direct competing product, no doubt. It's the luck of the PO to be out first. First come, first serve. Wins. As soon as the DQG is back available (there are probs with the supply of Trits, which is a new feature in rev.III), the PO wave will wane and tint snobs and many others will get very interested in the DQG. And why would there be a wave for the DQG?
> 
> Because of the PO. The PO has set the tone, and the DQG has gotten considerable publicity and exposure. Free advertisement. The expectations are high, and the key feature of the DQG had always been its tint choice. No wonder that the DQG always got completely sold out. Legendary product.
> 
> The deal is: You offer the NW now, and the PO will be clearly the winner over the DQG (i.e. you win us all over) once and for all, and your first sales wave will *not* wane when the DQG becomes available(, which will be soon enough afaik).
> 
> Much of the above is speculation. But marketing experts with experience and knowledge of "when is the best point in time to introduce a release" might agree. (( i guess that the main reason *not* to have produced NW's from the very beginning is the investment. NW LED's are more expensive and this would have ruined the beautiful 24.99 point. so no reproaches by any of us. ))
> 
> Thanks for considering!!



Holy cow Batman!

I plan to order one or two... And another few lights as well from 4Sevens. Do I want a neutral P0? Couldn't care less in a light that size and at that price with those features I'm impressed. 

I think 4Sevens has done well! Good on you guys!


----------



## shelm

tbenedict said:


> I still think these and the A3/i3's both need to be sold in retail stores(particularly hardware stores). Just think of how these would sell if they were on a checkout counter with a chained demo.


maybe producing and distributing 100,000 copies/month of the PO is a challenge but if only 1% of the buyers were unhappy and asked for major support (e.g. FREE replacement copy) this would account for 1,000 RMA cases per month.

Then you have a big problem. you have sold hundreds of thousands of units (and made reasonable money) but need to handle 1,000 cases of customer complaints (justified cases or not, doesnt matter. the customer is dissatisfied and you must defend the CS's reputation). Surefire is a sizable company with a department specialized on RMA's. They could handle a large monthly volume of cases.

i certainly agree. i3/A3's, PO's, E01's should be available in hardware stores instead of Rayovac's, Duracell's and Varta's  -- maglites are still okay. they're coming up with new updated stuff.


----------



## 4sevens

Guys please take the NW/special run to another thread and keep this thread on topic  It's been discussed before and should be continued there - just not here


----------



## Sno4Life

jorn said:


> They do look alike, but i guess this thing shapes itself when you want to shave off every mm of unwanted steel.



I think this is the most important design point for people talking about similarities.


----------



## Flying Turtle

Has anyone run down a battery in their P0 yet. Does it drop out of regulation and slowly fade away or wink out suddenly? Also, will it re-light with that run down battery? Probably be a couple days before mine gets to this point.

Geoff


----------



## SikDMAX

shelm said:


> The deal is: You offer the NW now, and the PO will be clearly the winner over the DQG (i.e. you win us all over) once and for all, and your first sales wave will *not* wane when the DQG becomes available(, which will be soon enough afaik).



The deal is????? Theres no deals bro - David is head of the company and he has done things correctly in the past (obviously) and will continue to do so. Dont like it? GTFO and start your own flashlight company. 

How rude.


----------



## shelm

SikDa


----------



## jorn

The xp-e usually outshines the xp-g in small aaa lights. So it depends what you want, lux or lumens. Some of my most used aaa lights are xp-e. For it's price, and "unike beampattern", i dont mind another aaa xp-e light 
I dont know if it's just my luck, but i havent seen a really bad tinted xp-e yet. Everytime i order a xp-g, i cross my fingers.


----------



## Streamer

shelm: ever think of modding one for yourself?


----------



## Shooter21

i would think that the xp-g would give you even more flood in the P0 but as long as the tint is nice i dont mind.


----------



## jorn

Shooter21 said:


> i would think that the xp-g would give you even more flood in the P0 but as long as the tint is nice i dont mind.


Maby, but as Davis said, it's not hard driven. And he wanted to shave the $ to a minimum:thumbsup: With a small lumen difference, i would be very supriced to see any visual difference in output at all. With a fixed focus for flood, the beampattern will stay the same, and those extra few lumens has a huge area to hide in.


----------



## shelm

Streamer said:


> ever think of modding one for yourself?


not yet. thanks for the idea, will consider it if the DQG turns out to be a piece of minor production quality.
if both were built exactly equal (except for the material), then i would get a couple of the PO's because of the performance guarantee. i would agree that the weight difference would be minimal between a PO-SS and PO-TI (maybe 3000 miligrams) and is not worth considering anymore for an additional 10 bucks. Superior material quality but ruins the fun of the whole story.

when time comes ill ask my neighbor to teach me soldering .. after school and homework i am usually off in the afternoons so i can practice my soldering technique. he likes flashlights but has no clue about Cree high performance Power LED's.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

I have two PO's and the Ti pen showing up from foursevens tomorrow, and a Moddo Pocket should show up too. 

Gonna be the best Monday I've had in months. Always easier getting out of bed when you know you have a fewnlights coming in the mail.


----------



## Streamer

Tint is Subjective:







Shot taken with P0 providing light on high. No controls. Back wall is your standard white wall. Wall shows pretty cyan tint.... What gets me is the white on the can labels . 

Tint issues aside, I'm more interested in what is in the cans. :duh2:


----------



## pjandyho

@Streamer

When you said "No controls", what do you mean? What is the white balance setting on your camera?


----------



## ragweed

I will probably get one but, holding off until I can read a review..


----------



## davidt1

Streamer said:


> Tint is Subjective:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shot taken with P0 providing light on high. No controls. Back wall is your standard white wall. Wall shows pretty cyan tint.... What gets me is the white on the can labels .
> 
> Tint issues aside, I'm more interested in what is in the cans. :duh2:



Isn't that all flood beam incredibly useful! This is what Zebralight H501 owners have been raving about all these years.

As for this light, I probably won't buy one because the low is too low for my uses.


----------



## SikDMAX

shelm said:


> after school



That explains it. Youll learn with age.


----------



## Streamer

pjandyho said:


> @Streamer
> 
> When you said "No controls", what do you mean? What is the white balance setting on your camera?



by no controls, i meant i didn't have a shot in daylight to compare it to

white balance is set on "auto" Panasonic LZ10

I'm no pro, but the picture on my screen looks exactly like the photo I took in the pantry. If anyones interested the white walls are "oyster white"...LOL


----------



## Streamer

ragweed said:


> I will probably get one but, holding off until I can read a review..



ragweed: you and i seem to like the same kind of lights thus far. You'll love this one. Forget the tint thing. You shine this thing on white sheets and you'll see white sheets.


----------



## the.Mtn.Man

shelm said:


> here some thoughts:
> If the NW's and Hi-CRI's of the Quarks did *not* sell too well in the recent past, then i would guess it was because of the demanded higher investment from the buyers' part. For example during Black Friday Blitz Sale none of them were offered, so they seemed higher priced than the standard Quark LED's. And when someone wants 1 Quark product (because he/she doesnt *want to* afford more of them) then it's a bit of a long shot to buy the same Quark again at a higher price and only with an improved tint. My thought is: if there had been NW's and Hi-CRI's from the very beginning of the introduction of Quarks *and* at the same price *and* discounted equally during sales seasons, *then* they would have sold out *better* than the standard Quarks.


That's a great point. I agree with you that if they offered high CRI emitters as part of their regular stock that they'd find better success than they currently do with limited "special edition" run at a mark-up.


----------



## shelm

swxb12 said:


> Here we have Fenix E05 left, P0 on the right (on high).
> 
> The E05 shoots out a big hotspot, while the P0 is a giant moonbeam.


Nice wallshot thanks! i have a flood-to-zoom torch Sipik so i should be able to compare the flood size. At 1.0m distance (or other distance) how wide does the diameter result? In the picture i cannot tell what the distance is.

( In school i belong to the friendliest students. my classmates they are the rude ones. Havent been called to detention for 1.5yrs+ !!! )


----------



## IRONMANq

Swiss Bianco made a 10 Minutes Video Review. (unfortunately it does lack a bit on the "light/beam" site, but quite nice! ) 

It is to be seen here:


----------



## Ishango

I also ordered one as I really love FOURSEVENs products and would like to see what they made of it. Can't wait to try it out.


----------



## gbelleh

I received my P0 today, and I have to say, I'm very pleased with it. Some initial impressions: 
The tint is just fine on mine. Pretty much white with a touch of blue, and a yellow/greenish ring around the very edge of the beam. Not bad at all. 

I was concerned about using it as a keychain light because of the magnet, sticking all over things on my keychain, or in my pockets. But, I'm happy to say, that won't be a problem. The very first time I stuck the magnet to something, the magnet stayed put, and the light just pulled right off (and I happily set the magnet aside where it will stay).

This light is very small, and puts out a useful amount of floody light for navigating at night. But, being so floody, it might not be as useful in partially lit areas where a hotspot (or throw) is useful. Because of the huge flood, it actually appears quite a bit dimmer than I expected. IMO, the hotspot of a Fenix E05, or Preon ReVo, is more useful in dimly lit situations, but the E05 is too bright for fully dark adapted eyes. The available low mode on the P0 seems very suitable for navigating a completely dark house with fully dark adapted eyes (I'll try it tonight). I plan to use the P0 as a keychain light for a while and see if the floody light is bright enough for EDC type situations. The intensity of the beam trails off very quickly, and I think I might prefer something with a more definite hotspot in most dimly lit settings.

I also like the GITD reflector. I'm not sure how long it will glow yet, but I will try using it as my nightstand light for a while instead of my tritium equipped Wee. This is where I expect the P0 to really excel, with its floody, low, and GITD reflector.

The main criticism I have, is the threads were kind of gritty and crunchy out of the box. I'm sure re-lubing them will help. They're starting to smooth out a bit now, but I was getting some unwanted mode changes the first few times I twisted it on/off. That seems to be going away.

Overall, it's a very nice little light. It looks good, it's small and lightweight, and seems quite versatile, as long as you're ok with all flood.

Here's a crummy size comparison picture:


----------



## MCN

I returned my first P0 because of the flaky switching. Today I received the replacement and it's just as bad. It's going back for a refund. I'm sorry but this light is not ready for prime time. I know from private communications that I am not the only one extremely disappointed with it for the same reason. It's got many wonderful aspects, but turning on reliably is not one of them.


----------



## Streamer

I wonder. What are the odds of getting 2 "flaky switching" ones and in addition "private communications" ?_
:ironic:
food for thought...
_


----------



## Got Lumens?

Streamer said:


> I wonder. What are the odds of getting 2 "flaky switching" ones and in addition "private communications" ?_
> :ironic:
> food for thought...
> _


The odds are just that the odds . . .
Private communcations, well they are priceless 
Patience, the wheels are turning. Your posts have not fallen on deaf ears 
I too have a second one coming.
GL


----------



## dandism

4sevens said:


> ... By the way the P0's magnet is press fit so it should never ever fall out.





gbelleh said:


> ... The very first time I stuck the magnet to something, the magnet stayed put, and the light just pulled right off (and I happily set the magnet aside where it will stay)...


----------



## pjandyho

Even though I have ordered and is awaiting the arrival of my P0, I don't feel as excited about it as most of you here. I really love my neutral white SS ReVO and it works and looks great on my keychain. 9 months of EDC with my coins and keys and hardly a single scratch on it. I ordered the P0 now just to see what it is like and to decide if I should buy a few more as gifts for my clients.


----------



## Streamer

I wish my magnet would come out so I could apply a drop of super glue. 
I give up trying for now.


----------



## AlphaZen

Streamer said:


> I wish my magnet would come out so I could apply a drop of super glue.
> I give up trying for now.


You want it to come out, so you can make sure it won't come out, but it won't come out?:nana:
It is funny that David said it should never ever come out, and two members in this thread have already had that happen.:shrug:


----------



## 4sevens

AlphaZen said:


> You want it to come out, so you can make sure it won't come out, but it won't come out?:nana:
> It is funny that David said it should never ever come out, and two members in this thread have already had that happen.:shrug:


I'll need to look into this. The reason why we chose to press fit is that it SHOULD never come out. It may be possible that during the press fitting some of the chrome coating on the magnets flaked off thus reducing the diameter of the magnet. Another thing we ran into was the magnet diameters would vary greatly. The hole for the magnet was machined to precision and is consistently the same size but then the magnets we sourced would not be consistent. 

_Edited to comply with forum policies_


----------



## tbenedict

I need to try one of these. I bet a little makeshift tube slipped on the head might be an easy way to narrow the beam for "covert" use.


----------



## Mr460mag

Got mine today and it looks good. Threads are a bit gritty, but with some lubrication and time, I think they will be fine. I have been EDC`ing the Fenix E05 and love the beam. Maybe the preon 0 is a bit to floody, but I have to test it some more. There is a big chance this will be my new EDC. The biggest problem was that there is no spare O-ring, and the one on the light was broken.


----------



## Flying Turtle

After re-pressing the magnet on mine it hasn't tried to come out again. I'm sure just a wee bit of superglue around the edge of the magnet would assure it stayed put. I'll be doing that eventually. 

Geoff


----------



## sassaquin

Mr460mag said:


> Got mine today and it looks good. The biggest problem was that there is no spare O-ring, and the one on the light was broken.



A few days ago, I emailed 4Sevens Customer Service requesting back-up spare O-Rings and was told "There are no spares currently available at this time, but if the light is maintained properly, these rings should last quite a long time. When yours does break, please contact us for a replacement."


----------



## AlphaZen

4sevens said:


> I'll need to look into this. The reason why we chose to press fit is that it SHOULD never come out. It may be possible that during the press fitting some of the chrome coating on the magnets flaked off thus reducing the diameter of the magnet. Another thing we ran into was the magnet diameters would vary greatly. The hole for the magnet was machined to precision and is consistently the same size but then the magnets we sourced would not be consistent.
> 
> Regardless, if you have any issues our customer service department will make it right


Thanks for the reply. I apologize if I sounded surly in my previous post.


----------



## Shooter21

i completed a runtime test for the P0 on a duracell alk and i got a little more than 2 hours before the output dropped so in total i got about 13 or so hours before it died.


----------



## this_is_nascar

I purchased (2) of these lights and received them the other day. It's my 1st flashlight related purchase in quite some time. My last last purchase was either an E05 or Revo, I can't recall. Anyway, 2-lights, 2-days later, 2-complete O-Ring failures. Now I've just read above that there are no spares available. If memory serves, every other light I've ever purchased from 4Sevens came with a spare O-Ring and by the way, I've never needed to use the spare. While I'm here, I might as well comment on the P0 light. Personally, I could take it or leave it really. It doesn't fill any gaps of my E05 or Revo. Considering the differences between low and high, the low is set to low. The spill/flood of this light is too much in my opinion. It's so broad, this light is pretty much useless if there's any existing ambient light. There's been a debate as to what's causing the tint, but I don't care what's causing it, it simply is horrible. This reminds me of the yellowish/greenish tint that was expected several years ago. The magnet gimmick and the GITD coating gimmick doesn't do anything to excite me. The GITD doesn't last for more than a couple minutes and the magnet is more of a pain in the a** than anything else. To end on a positive, the size is great and the cost isn't bad either. That's still doesn't change the fact that I have 2-brand new lights here that have a complete O-Ring failure with no replacements available.


----------



## davidt1

this is nascar,

Thanks for the mini review. It sounds like the beam of this light might be even bigger than that of the Zebralight H501. The problem of a pure flood beam is the bigger the beam the dimmer the light. This light, I think, holds the record of being the smallest AAA light. I can't wait to buy version 2 should 4Sevens improve on it later.


----------



## Streamer

this is nascar: If I felt about it like you, I'd post the same. Get the right tool for the job. The P0 has it's own agenda.


----------



## ragweed

I think David is getting taken advantage of with the company producing these lights. I guess I will pass on this one & just get another Revo from 4Sevens. I wonder if the Revo is made by a different company??


----------



## jorn

ragweed said:


> I think David is getting taken advantage of with the company producing these lights. I guess I will pass on this one & just get another Revo from 4Sevens. I wonder if the Revo is made by a different company??


The revo is discontinued.

The DQG chews o-rings like it's cookies, and you can buy 10 packs of o-rings for them. The lights are ~same size, i bet the o-rings fit. Can check when my P0 arrives.
A fix for the DQG is to unsharpen the threads closest to the o-ring a bit, use some fine sandpaper. Dunno if something like this is needed for the p0, if pepole are shredding o-rings, then maby.


----------



## RedForest UK

Ok I got mine today. My impressions are that the design is nice, and that if it genuinely wasn't 'inspired' by the DQG it is well thought out/designed so credit to them for that.

Unfortunately QC wasn't the best, acceptable I suppose for $25 yes but not impressive. On mine the LED appeared off-centre as the rubber GITD ring was wonky perhaps and there was some very thin black strands of something and other small particles of dust behind the lense. On the plus side the machining and finish is very good, and I have had no magnet or O-ring problems. Beam pattern and mode levels are based on opinion so I won't comment on them as a positive or negative.

There is a small foam ring to protect the back of the electronics by the way so no need to worry about that.

Anyway it was very easy to dissasemble, no glue on the threads at all. So I did that and removed any debris behind the lense and as the GITD ring is silicone or some other easily bent material I tucked a bit of the centre circle behind each corner of the XP-E's ceramic base and now it fits snugly and looks well-centred with all the LED and it's base showing which is a plus for me as I like the look of the square base on all XP/XM series LEDs.

The one real problem I'm having is it's behaviour on eneloops, it seems fine on primary cells but with eneloops if I tighten slightly after it's already lit up the light goes off again and sometimes flickers on and off. 

Also, more worryingly, around 50% of the time the light will not turn on when tightened (using eneloops) and the top of the head heats up to almost burning hot very fast with no light at all so I think that it somehow short-circuits. I'm thinking this must be due to the physical sizes of the eneloops as it doesn't happen with energizer lithium, alkaline or zinc-carbon ones I've got lying around even if over-tightened. Still it is worrying.. Has anyone else experienced this at all?

Ok, now over tightening seems no problem even with eneloops but I still get the short-circuit with them around 50% of the time. This is weird as it seems to depend on the battery's orientation in the tube as it can turn on/off 20 or more times no problem but then if removed and replaced next time it will only short-circuit and refuse to light up.


----------



## GuyZero

Unfortunately I have to agree with This_Is_Nascar's general thoughts. I love the wide, smooth, flood beam on my Zebralight Headlamp, but a flashlight serves a different purpose and needs more focus. I absolutely love the beam of my E05 and I think it's about perfect for an AAA EDC; a large, smooth hotspot that will still throw out 10-15 feet in front of you. But I don't EDC it because it doesn't have a long-running low mode, and I want that capability in case I find myself in an extended emergency situation. So for now my Revo is me EDC.

I know it's important to differentiate your products, and the premium flashlight market is already fairly crowded. But I would have bought a bunch of P0's and given them to my whole family if they were basically the same but had a beam more like the E05. 

That said, the P0 is tiny, affordable, tiny, attractive, has the versatility of multiple modes while still remaining very simple to use, tiny... It's an absolutely brilliant design. I'm still a huge fan of 4Sevens.


----------



## RedForest UK

Ok, I've worked out the problem. As the eneloops and other Ni-mh AAA cells have slightly wider positive nipples than primary ones they have worn off a tiny amount of the black plastic covering one of the components and slightly exposed some metal on the inside of it. They then sometimes touch this when the head is screwed down and this causes a short circuit. Hopefully this is rare and the component had an extra thin wall on that side or was closer to the centre than normal, otherwise it could turn out to be a problem for others too..


.. And I have now been able to fix it by dropping a small blob of solder onto the positive contact point in the head of the light, this means that Ni-mh cells can make contact without having to press down far enough to touch the now exposed sliver of metal in the component. It would be very nice of someone from Foursevens to let me know that on this occasion I haven't voided my warranty by doing this simple fix. After all it has saved them an RMA already just now. 


Oh, and on another note, I'm not a big fan of cool tints (especially at lower outputs/intensity), but my tint seems perfectly acceptable and will do fine.


----------



## Flying Turtle

Just broke my o-ring. I'll have to check if I have one that will work. Wish we had gotten a spare. :scowl:

Geoff


----------



## ragweed

Another broken O ring again? I though most of the reports were just isolated incidents. Do you know what caused it? I have never had a broken O ring on my expensive & cheapo lights even! Even the original O ring on my Arc AAA is doing fine after years of constant use!!


----------



## Flying Turtle

I was just opening it up. This is not a problem I've had often. Only once before on a EZAA. I tried a replacement (from my ThruNite Ti), but it was too thick. Guess I could sand it down some, but I think I'll wait a bit for some replacements from 4Sevens. I'm assuming this problem will be addressed shortly.

Geoff

Just made a temporary fix with teflon plumber's tape. I'll have to tweak it some with maybe more layers, but this may be a good solution. It's certainly easier to turn now.


----------



## my#1hobby

Just used my Preon for a repair job at work and all it is doing is flickering, I put another eneloop in it and it's still doing the same thing. I'm puzzled. 
I just spent the last 5 min cleaning it and still nothing but flickering.


----------



## BarryH

Probably the sharp inside edge of the head is cutting into the o-ring upon re-assembly.


----------



## TheCleanerSD

I don't have any problems with the flood beam pattern, or color. The magnet I could take or leave. What does irritate me is the gritty feel of the threads (after multiple cleanings and lubes), and the inconsistent activation. Anything less than bottoming out the head with a full, forceful twist will only generate flickering. Forget trying to activate this light one-handed. It's two hands or no-go. Kind of feel like these lights aren't ready for primetime. Disappointing because up until this point, I've had nothing but love for my 4Sevens lights.


----------



## RedForest UK

my#1hobby said:


> Just used my Preon for a repair job at work and all it is doing is flickering, I put another eneloop in it and it's still doing the same thing. I'm puzzled.



Try an alkaline/zinc-carbon/L91 or anything with a smaller positive nipple in it and see if that works any better. That was the first sign of mine playing up on eneloops due to wearing down the plastic on one of the components.


----------



## BarryH

My first one was bad. Wouldn't work at all with an eneloop. Very intermittent with an alkaline, came on for about 10 seconds, then flashed and then was dead.

Customer service promptly sent a replacement. It was kind of flaky and intermittent at first to power on and for the mode changes but after cleaning the main contact with a dab of Deoxit, then cleaning and re-lubing the o-ring and theads and it is now working like a champ. I really like the wide beam and am happy with the two brightness levels (in spite of the strange tint.)


----------



## my#1hobby

RedForest UK said:


> Try an alkaline/zinc-carbon/L91 or anything with a smaller positive nipple in it and see if that works any better. That was the first sign of mine playing up on eneloops due to wearing down the plastic on one of the components.


Ok, I tried an alkaline and no flickering. This is an issue for me as I only intend to use eneloops in it. Did you find a fix for yours?


----------



## RedForest UK

Yeah, if you look closely you may see where it's touching one of the components and rubbing through the plastic coating. You'd have to be careful with forcing it with the eneloop as you could short-circuit that way. I carefully put a small dab of solder on the contact point in the head and this means contact is made about 0.7-1mm further out and so the eneloop has no chance of shorting out or rubbing on any components, it fixed it for me anyway.


----------



## my#1hobby

RedForest UK said:


> Yeah, if you look closely you may see where it's touching one of the components and rubbing through the plastic coating. You'd have to be careful with forcing it with the eneloop as you could short-circuit that way. I carefully put a small dab of solder on the contact point in the head and this means contact is made about 0.7-1mm further out and so the eneloop has no chance of shorting out or rubbing on any components, it fixed it for me anyway.


Thanks a bunch for the help! I'll give it a shot tonight when I get home.


----------



## RedForest UK

my#1hobby said:


> Thanks a bunch for the help! I'll give it a shot tonight when I get home.



No problem, I just hope it works for you too  Be very careful though and try to have the solder as hot as possible hanging from the tip of the iron if you can before quickly applying to the contact, it seems itself to be floating (floating only if the solder is melted of course) on solder rather than directly attached to the board so if you heat it directly for too long it could come loose and cause damage. It should be fine if you're quick though.


----------



## Streamer

Roger on the NIMH situation. Just put a Sanyo Eneloop in to try and no go. Will not light up. Visually , there is no room for the Eneloop's nipple to make it up through the spongy hole to make contact without modification. 

Won't be an issue though, as I planned on running lithium primarys anyways.


----------



## RedForest UK

Hmm that's a little worrying as I'm sure lots of people will eventually just try to force it and end up shorting it out, which could have bad consequences. Good job it's not a li-ion based light at least..


----------



## mrlysle

Got mine today. I'm sorry for all you guys having problems. So far, mine is working perfectly. No flickering or flaky mode changes. Very nice fit and finish. I think if you were to remove the battery, then twist the head back on, and went too far, the threads would probably damage the little silicone o-ring, but as long as there's a cell in it, I don't forsee having any issues with 0-ring damage. The lower edge of the head, and inside surface that rides on the o-ring are very smooth on my sample. Tint isn't bad, just really yellow in the fringe, on high and low. After reading so many threads about the 0-ring damage, I was a little worried, but (knock on wood) so far, so good. Had mine been rough, I was prepared to chuck it up in a drill, spin it, and polish where needed with crocus cloth, or some polishing compound on a small leather pad. Still might, just for good measure. I still love my DQG tiny, but I can see where this little "all flood" light could be usefull. It disappears in the watch pocket of my jeans, so I'm thinkin' I'll carry it all the time. Glad I got one.


----------



## 4sevens

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Does anyone find it strange that this thread has 500,000+ views??


----------



## rdrfronty

Got mine in today. Totally pleased with it. Looks nice and has a nice sturdy feel. The LED looks nice and centered. Using the supplied alkaline, the light is working flawlessly. No flickering and perfect operation going into to low and high when it's suppose to. I can feel a slight amount a grit in the threads the last 1/2 turn, but it's very minor too me and doubt I would have noticed of not for the other comments here. The low puts out plenty of light to navigate a dark house or building. And the flood I felt was surprising bright for such a wide beam. Shining it out a window from a 11-12ft height, it easily lights up every corner of my 40 x 55ft back yard on high. Not brightly, but does the job. Not too bad I think.
I think this is a great little light and feel it's well worth the money. It will also be my EDC from now on.


----------



## Oguime

Just ordered mine to replace an ITP A3 SS on my keychain. Let's see how long it takes for it to arrive in Brazil...


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

My two PO's are problem free, nice lil mules. 

Also, the foursevens pen is very classy, goes great with my Spy 007.


----------



## moshow9

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



4sevens said:


> Does anyone find it strange that this thread has 500,000+ views??


Wow, that is a lot. It's tops for this sub-forum. I'd call it a glitch, only there aren't any other threads (that I have seen) with any big jumps in views such as this.

Maybe the P0 just garnered a whole lot of interest. 

I know tint preference is subjective, and the all flood in a light this small may not be for everyone, but the tint is just right on mine and I have already put mine to good use.

As an aside, Trevor sent me a replacement for my non-functioning P0 and it arrived today. Works like a champ. :thumbsup:


----------



## Flying Turtle

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

So far the teflon tape fix for the broken o-ring is working well. I probably ended up using about five turns of thin tape, and it's now very smooth. Might need to add more periodically. Give it a try if you've lost your o-ring.

Geoff


----------



## sassaquin

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Sorry to hear of the issues people are having with their P0 and hope they can get them resolved quickly. 
Mine arrived with flickering and flaky mode switching, but a drop of DeOxit resolved it and has been working flawlessly since. Also, I'm using a Duraloop without any issues contacting the circuit and a thin coating of Finish Line Extreme Fluoronated grease smoothed the threads out nicely.
My favorite features in order of preference are:
- uber tiny size
- all-flood beam
- low-low level for late night indoor navigation
- GITD face
- magnet tail

I bought this little light on a whim and can't believe how happy I am with it. However, I am concerned about long-term reliability with all of these reports of questionable quality.


----------



## Alex1234

I just got my P0 in the mail today and im happy to say its working perfectly. The tint is a nice, no blue yellow in the light. Runs great on my alkaline and rechargeable battery. Looks brighter then 25 lumans to me. Best part is the size and the glow in the dark stuff around the led. I would rate this light as a 9 mainly do to its size and versatility with that magnet on the back.


----------



## toylover

Got mine today. 

PROS:

Tiny size
Nothing wrong with the tint.
Works fine with Energizer Ultimate Lithium (1.5 V, non-rechargeable).
Low setting good enough for walking around a dark house, (like turning on your smartphone) and in fact good enough to read a book when the light is about 5 inches away.
Looooong battery life on low setting.
Indoor, the wide flood effect is ok. Not so sure when you step outside. This is probably caused by the tiny size of the light. A longer throw would have made the light a few mm longer.

CONS:

No spare ring and no instructions. Had to check this forum to make sure how to install the battery: Positive towards the light.
The magnet came out the first time I tried it and it won't stay in. I don't have any Crazy glue around so I'm using a piece of tape for the time being but I may just try to pop a small tritium vial in there for the fun of it.
It feels a bit gritty when you twist it.
The Glow in the dark is just a gimmick since it only lasts a few minutes. There is GITD paint out there that lasts up to 24 hours so there is definitely room for improvement.
No lobster clip. Btw, does anyone know where these are available?

I would say it's a keeper but I'm not sure it will replace my ITP A3 for EDC. Time will tell.


----------



## madecov

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



4sevens said:


> Does anyone find it strange that this thread has 500,000+ views??



And I hope each and every one of them placed an order for a light or two


----------



## my#1hobby

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



4sevens said:


> Does anyone find it strange that this thread has 500,000+ views??


This is now officially the most viewed thread on CPF! Sounds like somebody got really bored and hit the refresh button a few hundred thousand times lol.


----------



## AlphaZen

toylover said:


> The Glow in the dark is just a gimmick since it only lasts a few minutes. There is GITD paint out there that lasts up to 24 hours so there is definitely room for improvement.


I have seen GITD tailcaps that *appear* to only last a few minutes, but hours later in the middle of the night, with no other light the glow is enough to locate the light on my nightstand. Does this lose all luminescence, or is it possibly enough to still locate the light in the dark?


----------



## Flying Turtle

Hey again, Brian. After reading your post I stuck my Preon in my pocket for a bit, then went into a totally dark room. Not much luminesence there. I needed to bring it right up to my face to see any glow, and my night vision is pretty normal I think.

Geoff


----------



## AlphaZen

Geoff, thank you for your help, here and through the pm.


----------



## Helmut.G

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



4sevens said:


> Does anyone find it strange that this thread has 500,000+ views??


Maybe this thread was linked to from some popular page outside CPF?
Or the counter is broken.


----------



## AlphaZen

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



Helmut.G said:


> Maybe this thread was linked to from some popular page outside CPF?
> Or the counter is broken.


When I Google Preon P0, this thread is the third link on the list. If the number of visits is correct, that is great news for FOURSEVENS. It is also possibly a mistake with the way CPF has been acting lately. Anyone following the MBI Torpedo thread knows The Guy With No Name also became the guy with no posts, out of nowhere.


----------



## Helmut.G

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



AlphaZen said:


> When I Google Preon P0, this thread is the third link on the list. If the number of visits is correct, that is great news for FOURSEVENS. It is also possibly a mistake with the way CPF has been acting lately. Anyone following the MBI Torpedo thread knows The Guy With No Name also became the guy with no posts, out of nowhere.


Yes I've seen that and he isn't the only one apparently.
If no significant (i.e. incredible) amount of visitors from outside were/are present it has got to be a malfunction because there's no way the thread could get two times as much views as the second longest in LED with only 12 pages.
I General Flashlights section if you sort after views the biggest number is 100000.


----------



## jorn

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Hehe, maby someone wanted to put the cpf server to it's knnes with massive traffic, and all traffic went to this thread?


----------



## clip_point

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

More like a combination of 4Sevens' increasing popularity, nutnfancy's SHOT show coverage of their booth (and the Preon P0) and Google searches leading to CPF.


----------



## Helmut.G

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



clip_point said:


> More like a combination of 4Sevens' increasing popularity, nutnfancy's SHOT show coverage of their booth (and the Preon P0) and Google searches leading to CPF.


nutnfancy's SHOT 4sevens video has less than 30000 views. Even if all viewers visited this thread that's still pretty insignificant.


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## Oguime

Oguime said:


> Just ordered mine to replace an ITP A3 SS on my keychain. Let's see how long it takes for it to arrive in Brazil...



Looks like it's going to take a while... just received an e-mail from Foursevens telling that they're out of stock...


----------



## pjandyho

Received the P0 today. In my honest opinion, I think the GITD is redundant. It is so useless it looses it's glow after half an hour and I am in a very dark room. I can still accept it if it is just redundant, but it casts an unnecessary green tint on the beam. Why even bother with it? Would have been better off it is a mule type light without a reflector.


----------



## kaichu dento

I've got a MillerMods Arc-AA that had GITD paint applied to the whole reflector area and it will last for hours, in addition to being bright enough to find the bathroom in the dark. Had it for a couple years already, so there has definitely been some very high quality GITD paint available for some time now.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

I have to say, on my two examples, the GITD does not add a green tint to the beam. At all.


----------



## powernoodle

Sorry if I missed it, but does this puppy have flat output? Thanks.


----------



## jonnyfgroove

powernoodle said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but does this puppy have flat output? Thanks.



Check out this post. :rock:


----------



## Streamer

What's with the GITD complaints. I charged mine up and put it in pitch black dark room, went back three hours later and sure enough it was still glowing after it took me a minute or two to get my vision adjusted. I swear, some people would ***** if you hung em with a new rope. I'll keep checking on it and advise.....geeshhhhhh


----------



## Samy

Streamer said:


> What's with the GITD complaints. I charged mine up and put it in pitch black dark room, went back three hours later and sure enough it was still glowing after it took me a minute or two to get my vision adjusted. I swear, some people would ***** if you hung em with a new rope. I'll keep checking on it and advise.....geeshhhhhh



It takes 20 minutes at least to get your eyes fully adapted to the dark. after 20 minutes in the dark I bet it looks like a searchlight 

Cheers


----------



## Got Lumens?

PoliceScannerMan said:


> I have to say, on my two examples, the GITD does not add a green tint to the beam. At all.


I have to agree, the only portion that you can even detect this is the outer edges of the spill. Even that is hard without whitewall hunting . I have my second sample, just arrived today. I am going to document it from opening to use, and let the pictures speak for themselves.
GL


----------



## this_is_nascar

Streamer said:


> What's with the GITD complaints. I charged mine up and put it in pitch black dark room, went back three hours later and sure enough it was still glowing after it took me a minute or two to get my vision adjusted. I swear, some people would ***** if you hung em with a new rope. I'll keep checking on it and advise.....geeshhhhhh




Obviously, you're experiences with this are different than those of some others, myself included. The activation of the GITD on my (2) lights last only minutes, not hours as you have reported. I have and will continue to b*tch whenever I feel something is not working as it should or when it acts as a gimmick to sell a product as opposed to adding to its usefulness. As far as I'm concerned, the GITD addition, as implemented on the P0, is nothing more than a gimmick. It adds no usable function to the light and actually hinders the light in achieving a properly tinted beam.


----------



## NeonLights

I was mildly interested in the Preon P0 when I first heard about it from the SHOT Show coverage, but the more I hear about it, the less interested I am. I've thrown $20-25 away on lights in the past I took a chance on, but I don't think I'll take a chance this time. If they would lose the magnet (I've had issues with magnets on keychain items inthe past), the GITD feature, which I care nothing about, and make the low setting 1 or 2 lumens instead of .25, then I'd pony up the $20-25 without too much hesitation. Oh well, maybe they'll come out with revision 2.0 next year?


----------



## davidt1

NeonLights said:


> I was mildly interested in the Preon P0 when I first heard about it from the SHOT Show coverage, but the more I hear about it, the less interested I am. I've thrown $20-25 away on lights in the past I took a chance on, but I don't think I'll take a chance this time. If they would lose the magnet (I've had issues with magnets on keychain items inthe past), the GITD feature, which I care nothing about, and make the low setting 1 or 2 lumens instead of .25, then I'd pony up the $20-25 without too much hesitation. Oh well, maybe they'll come out with revision 2.0 next year?



I wish for the same things like you. I would even pay more for a better version. They have the size, look, and beam profile down. They just need to improve on the internals.


----------



## Streamer

GITD on the P0 has been going on now for 4 and 1/2 hours. No problem seeing it. I bet one can see it all nite long with dark adapted eyes. I'll check it when I get up in the "wee" hours. 

Maybe some got bad samples.. those that complain. Yes, some have bad Karma with this little torch. 

Regular flashlights have GITD boot switches. So, with the P0, it's not like it's something new. It works just like the gitd boots do. Not a gimmick. Just a substitutiion at the other end. 

If I was not satisfied I'd VOCALIZE it..then send it back. I'm off work until March and having a blast checkin this little guy out past couple days. Sorry for you that got the Lemons.

Eneloops don't work in mine. Just wanted to ***** about something.


----------



## Alex1234

I have had my p0 on a timer to see how long the GITD would last and im at 45 minutes and its still glowing pritty good. I dont how what they used but it lasts longer then any of my flashlights with GITD boot covers


----------



## rdrfronty

This little light does have a very broad flood. It has appx. a 1-2 ratio on the beam pattern. Meaning at about 1ft from a wall, it light up appx a 2ft circle(with no spot really). I tried a little experiment by placing it on the floor of a 16ft x 16ft room with 8ft ceiling and pointing it straight up. This is a very dark room with all windows blacked out. On the low .25L setting i could see very easy to navigate around the room. On the 25L high setting, I could easily read a book while standing in the corner facing away from the light. It lit up every square foot of the room good enough to read. I would prefer brighter light to read with, but for reading a map or whatever when camping, it would be easy with just it's ambient light. Now I'm sure some of this light got reflected off my white ceiling & walls, but it still an interesting test I thought.
Also I'm very pleased with my GITD ring. I haven't tested it for time, but in it does hold at least a dim glow for a pretty long period of time. And no magnet issue here either. Stuck on all kinds of things at work to day. Magnet stayed in place and was plenty strong enough to hold the light in place no matter which way it was hanging. 
Only problem I had is that to non flashlight minded people, they are very unimpressed by the floody beam. Everybody expected a nice spot. Oh, well I know the flood is really more practical. Would be nice if 4sevens would maybe offer both a floody and slight spotty version in the future. I would own both versions for sure.


----------



## revolver

Is everyone else's GITD grainy like mine? I can see a lot of variation amongst the individual particles when examined closely... It also does not seem to glow very long, even with dark adjusted eyes.


----------



## ama230

I had just wanted to state some facts before I state the real purpose of this post...

I have had the P0 from 4Sevens for 1 week and love it. 

The first thing I did as most do is clean, lube and put a fresh eneloop.

Fist Occurrence:

When I first open the package and tested out the light it would go to low with the first turn. Then the second turn would look like a little brighter than low, then go to high. This being just like a soft start with a digital IC. 

First Solution:

I had cleaned, cleaned and cleaned!!!!! Then it seemed to go away for the rest of the week. So I had written off the problem, no biggie!

Second Occurrence:

Today when I changed my eneloop it had started acting weird. Then I got to the 10th, 11th or 12th page on this thread and seen that there is one other with the same issue that was here to stay.

Second and final solution:

I had taken the foam ring out of the head and started to look around and seen that the packaging on one of the six leg IC's is chipped off at the corner, thus exposing more of the leg. This is what was making intermittent contact with that larger pad of the positive end of the eneloop as stated earlier.

As having good eye sight i see that the leg of the IC had lifted off the pad so slightly that it was making intermittent contact with the PCB. So I soldered that leg on with my solderpro butane iron, which comes with a rather flat blunt tip. So taking my time and prepping the iron to have a nice light fresh coat of solder. Then soldered the leg. Then proceeded to the positive contact area of the board and it is a cap that is soldered to flat positive contact on the PCB, so extra precaution is needed as stated earlier by another poster. So please use surface prep pen or liquid flux as this is going to need very high heat for a short period of time as it will lift off if not careful and its not going to be fun to put it back with such little room, as this is a tiny light! : P

I am very happy with the light, before and after. Great job 47's and glad I own a second as I always grab a spare when I find something awesome.

I like, scratch that, I love fixing things as its my knack being an EE. Its fixable and the only fix that 47's could do is just raise the contact point 1mm and BAM!

The only thing I would like to request to make this light awesome is to make a optional pill that came with "X" emitter(Preferably an XML T6/U2). Again its just a request and would like to have the light be modular to an extent like ARC does.

Thanks,
Eric Ramirez


----------



## Alex1234

my p0 is also grainy but i just finished up my timer test and i called it at a bout 2 hours it was still glowing but not much at all past 2 hours. very happy with it


----------



## gbelleh

After a few nights with my P0, I'm finding the beam a bit too floody for my liking. I find the beam pattern of the E05 just about perfect. I just wish it had a low mode. It seems a lot of the P0's light gets wasted lighting up everything except what I need to see, and what I need to see ends up dimly lit. I'm sure I could get used to it, but I prefer to have a hotspot that transitions to spill.

As for my GITD, it appears grainy and uneven in its application, and does not last long. It glows quite bright for a couple minutes, then fades to almost nothing. I woke up in the middle of the night last night, and it was just about invisible after a few hours of total darkness.


----------



## Streamer

The P0's GITD is still very visible. Guys, I have had this thing in the darkroom for 6 and 1/2 hours. I enter the darkroom in total darkness. Wait less than a minute. Open a cupboard where the P0 is and can reach in and pick it up because it still has visible green glow. Remember, this is in a totaly darkroom. I think that is more than enough glow to be visible at any time you should wake up in the middle of the night. It's still in there. Radiating in perpetual motion.. *people won't believe it *


----------



## Toast95135

I finally got my Preon P0 in the mail today and I really like it so far. I love the floody moon beam . Quality looks good and feels nice in the hand despite not having any knurling. The threads are gritty though and there is some yellow discoloration on the rim of the beam but that's not a deal breaker for me. The GITD reflector I could take or leave to be honest. It doesn't glow brightly for more then a few minutes but it seems to keep going for a while. The magnet base has stayed in place (for now) and it seems like it would come in handy at work. When Im on a show it's dark and we have to set up a lot of electronics and wires, it'll be nice to be able to clip it to the racks and have a nice smooth beam to work under. 

I'm glad to see a nice flat 3 hour runtime in high with alkalines, why David only posted 1.5 hrs is beyond me. The 1/4 lumen is really nice too IMO, perfect for moving through a dark house. So far I like it a lot but I don't think it will be kicking my NW Preon Revo SS off my keychain.


----------



## gbelleh

I would guess there might be some variation from light to light in the intensity of the GITD.


----------



## toylover

Oguime said:


> Looks like it's going to take a while... just received an e-mail from Foursevens telling that they're out of stock...



That's good news. By now they are aware of the issues. Let's hope the second batch will be better.


----------



## toylover

gbelleh said:


> I would guess there might be some variation from light to light in the intensity of the GITD.



Quality control has been a huge issue with this light. The first batch is sold out and it seems that this thread has had half a million hits. This is a clear indication that there is a huge demand for this kind of light. Let's hope the other manufacturers (we're looking at you ITP, Olight, Fenix, etc.) will step up to the plate and come up with some healthy competition.


----------



## squaat

Just got my P0 the other day. Very impressed by is size. Most of my previous AAA's were relegated to pocket carry, as they were too big for my keys. Will definitely give the P0 a run on my keys. 

Loving the magnet in the base, has proven handy a couple of times already.

Definitely like the floody beam. a Great indoor / car / bag searching / close proximity light. Probably all you need in a keychain light. I feel that it is comparable to the led flash / flashlight on my smart phone. Though the beam is much better and brighter (on high).

Low is low enough to check on the kids when they are asleep. A job that was previously to be served by my quark.

Had some trouble initially getting it to fire up with an eneloop. The foam insert wasn't sitting flat. Though a good hard twist flattened it out. Though i was tad worried as I heard some crunching when I did it. I think the "gritty" thread feeling people are talking about is the foam insert compressing. i concur with people thinking that the hole in the foam insert is not wide enough for eneloops, that was what I initially thought the problem was.

I have noticed some accidental level jumps, but it has been rare.

Showed it to a bunch of my friends the 3 that were revo owners, they liked it, but didn't think it would replace their revos. A non flashaholic friend who saw it was really impressed, and asked me to get one for him... was going to get him a Thrunite Ti, but he changed his mind when he saw the P0.

Not sure what to make of the GITD reflector, never had much use for anything GITD

all in all I'm pretty happy with it. I think I'll carry it on my keychain, with my revo in my pocket.


----------



## Streamer

I have to agree with you there. It would seem the P0's quality control is just not adequate considering all of the complaints thus far.


----------



## clip_point

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



Helmut.G said:


> nutnfancy's SHOT 4sevens video has less than 30000 views. Even if all viewers visited this thread that's still pretty insignificant.



All view counters are not created equal. While vBulletin registers multiple views by the same browser, as well as unique views, Youtube has mechanisms in place that prevent registering multiple views from a single browser and in some cases a single IP address. I have clicked on this thread at least 20 times if not more, each was registered. You do the math.


----------



## CheepSteal

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*

Received my P0 today in the mail and have been tinkering with it. I like how it looks and how solid it feels for such a tiny thing. I have it on my keys now and it's quite a nice addition. Mine works flawlessly with alkaline cells but no luck with eneloops as previously reported, which is a little disappointing but not a huge deal since it'll be used so little. The beam is beautiful for up close impromptu searching through a pack, lighting up the door lock or reading. I previously thought the magnet would be annoying and would stick to everything on my keys but it doesn't, in fact, I can see this being used as my EDC magnet to pick up tiny screws I might drop. The threads are a little gritty but I put a nice helping of nyogel in the threads and O-ring and everything is ship-shape.
Very pleased, thank you FOURSEVENS and David Chow!


----------



## Helmut.G

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



clip_point said:


> I have clicked on this thread at least 20 times if not more, each was registered.


So have I, but I don't expect the average youtube video viewer to behave as we do.
It's a mystery to me.


----------



## mrlysle

Streamer said:


> The P0's GITD is still very visible. Guys, I have had this thing in the darkroom for 6 and 1/2 hours. I enter the darkroom in total darkness. Wait less than a minute. Open a cupboard where the P0 is and can reach in and pick it up because it still has visible green glow. Remember, this is in a totaly darkroom. I think that is more than enough glow to be visible at any time you should wake up in the middle of the night. It's still in there. Radiating in perpetual motion.. *people won't believe it *



There has to be some variation in the GITD material, because my sample, like Streamers, continues to glow all night. I turn it on for a half minute or so before I go to bed. 6,7,8, hours later, when I'm ready to get up, and it's still dark in the room, I can see the end of the PO perfectly. Makes it's really easy to just reach over to the nightstand and pick it up, instead of searching for it with my fingers. Is it as bright as when I first turned the light off the night before? No, but I can still see it easily with my still "dark adapted" eyes. One other item on the food for though list. You know how some lights won't work well with flat top cells, and they make the tiny little magnets to stick on the positive contact of the cell? I'm wondering if one could be found that is both thin enough, and of the correct diameter to sit on the positive contact button in the head, so eneloops would work? I have a lithium in mine right now, but have lots of AAA eneloops I bought specifically for several of my AAA lights. I think 4Sevens dropped the ball on this little gem, by not checking the contact diameter on several brands of cells to ensure food for the light no matter where you live, or what brand batteries are available for you. So many of us here use Eneloops. It's a shame they actually do physical damage to the light engine. If anyone finds a source for proper fitting magnets, please let us all know.


----------



## ico

With the GITD, I think its the other way around. Those who got the ones that lasts long are the ones who are lucky and the ones who have had the GITD glow for only a few mins are the ones who got what was implemented on the light. In one of 4sevens interview(Don't know if from nutnfancy or goinggear) David mentioned that the GITD was only a* GIMMICK*, yes he said it himself, and he stated that the glow would not last really long.


----------



## Helmut.G

btw, there is also a big potential difference in the perception between people, i.e. the threshold that determines whether you see a weak light or not is individually different. Maybe this can explain a part of the observed differences.


----------



## tbenedict

gbelleh said:


> It seems a lot of the P0's light gets wasted lighting up everything except what I need to see, and what I need to see ends up dimly lit. I'm sure I could get used to it, but I prefer to have a hotspot that transitions to spill.



That issue is the main reason I do not use my H501W daily around the house. Wonderful beam for a task and/or book reading light, just too wide for night walks in the house (blinding me and those around).


----------



## AnAppleSnail

If you prefer a hotspot that transitions to spill, then this is not the light for you.
P0 features:
Ultra floody beam
Low and Hi mode
Glowy thing
Magnetic thing

If that's not the light for you, then don't gripe!


----------



## toylover

Helmut.G said:


> btw, there is also a big potential difference in the perception between people, i.e. the threshold that determines whether you see a weak light or not is individually different. Maybe this can explain a part of the observed differences.



Yes. Age has a lot to do with it. We need more light as we get older. It would be interesting to know the average age of CPF subscribers Also, color perception is a very complicated matter.


----------



## ragweed

I used to hate floody beams but now I have come to like them very much. It all depends on personal preference though.


----------



## Streamer

mrlysle said:


> There has to be some variation in the GITD material, because my sample, like Streamers, continues to glow all night. I turn it on for a half minute or so before I go to bed. 6,7,8, hours later, when I'm ready to get up, and it's still dark in the room, I can see the end of the PO perfectly. Makes it's really easy to just reach over to the nightstand and pick it up, instead of searching for it with my fingers. Is it as bright as when I first turned the light off the night before? No, but I can still see it easily with my still "dark adapted" eyes. One other item on the food for though list. You know how some lights won't work well with flat top cells, and they make the tiny little magnets to stick on the positive contact of the cell? I'm wondering if one could be found that is both thin enough, and of the correct diameter to sit on the positive contact button in the head, so eneloops would work? I have a lithium in mine right now, but have lots of AAA eneloops I bought specifically for several of my AAA lights. I think 4Sevens dropped the ball on this little gem, by not checking the contact diameter on several brands of cells to ensure food for the light no matter where you live, or what brand batteries are available for you. So many of us here use Eneloops. It's a shame they actually do physical damage to the light engine. If anyone finds a source for proper fitting magnets, please let us all know.



Final tally, it was still visible after 9 hours so I called it quits. Done.


----------



## L David Matheny

NeonLights said:


> If they would lose the magnet (I've had issues with magnets on keychain items inthe past), the GITD feature, which I care nothing about, and make the low setting 1 or 2 lumens instead of .25, then I'd pony up the $20-25 without too much hesitation. Oh well, maybe they'll come out with revision 2.0 next year?



The GITD feature at least seems harmless. What issues have you had with magnets? I'm not likely to carry a credit card (with magnetic stripe) loose in the same pocket, but that sort of possibility would worry me.


----------



## jorn

I think the glow stuff sounds like any other glow stuff. If it's close to the lightsource, then it will be kind of overcharged and dims out from this overcharged state within minutes. It will still glow for lots of hours, but not with the same intencity as when "overcharged".


----------



## Flying Turtle

Do you wish your Preon had an ultralow orange/red glow?
Do you wish your Preon had a room filling orange/red high? 
Do you wish your Preon had a red hat?
Might I suggest a rubbery plastic electric plug cover?







I've used this with other lights before. Fits Preon nicely. On low you can read from a couple inches.

Geoff


----------



## clip_point

*Re: Preon P0-SS ... a new 1x AAA light ©2012 by 4Sevens!!!*



Helmut.G said:


> So have I, but I don't expect the average youtube video viewer to behave as we do.
> It's a mystery to me.



Average youtuber doesn't watch nutnfancy, it's all us flashaholics, knifaholics, gunaholics and other gear and outdoorsholics who watch that guy's vids.


----------



## Beacon of Light

+1 there is definitely a demand for a light like this in this sweet spot of under $30. I hope it is very succesful for 4Sevens, but I can see there probably isn't as big of a profit margin with a light like this even if they sell in the millions compared to their more powerful, more expensive lights. 4Sevens, thanks again for making this light a reality!



toylover said:


> Quality control has been a huge issue with this light. The first batch is sold out and it seems that this thread has had half a million hits. This is a clear indication that there is a huge demand for this kind of light. Let's hope the other manufacturers (we're looking at you ITP, Olight, Fenix, etc.) will step up to the plate and come up with some healthy competition.


----------



## Burgess

Had mine since Feb. 1st, and really like it !

My threads are *perfectly* smooth.

The two chosen Light-Levels are wonderful, for my needs.

:twothumbs



Anybody notice how the magnet makes battery removal a bit of a Challenge ? ? ?


I'm using Energizer L92 Lithiums, and they really don't wanna' Fall Out of the body,
unless i Slap it against my hand.


No major deal -- just something i've noticed.


This cute little flashlight is Incredibly, Unbelievably small !

Looks like something which would take a "goofy-size" N cell.

Nope !

Uses the ubiquitous AAA's.



Nice work, David and crew.

:goodjob:
_


----------



## jonnyfgroove

Just received mine a few minutes ago and I love it so far!


----------



## NickBose

Sorry if it has been asked (just could not read through 400 plus posts)
Why is this only 25 lumens?


----------



## Got Lumens?

Hi,
In response to the battery incompatibities and those that say the Preon0 is a battery crusher, I started this new thread with a Mini Video Review.
GL


----------



## clip_point

NickBose said:


> Sorry if it has been asked (just could not read through 400 plus posts)
> Why is this only 25 lumens?



I think it's to have a decent runtime on single AAA alkalines... it's definitely not a show-off light.


----------



## :)>

I like it a lot also, but I will not be replacing my E05... The beam, output and runtime are to great. I put the Preon on my wife's keychain to replace the E01.


----------



## swxb12

In my experience a little goes in long way with all-flood type beams. The low on my zebralight flood lamps get used the most. Dim, but you light everything up. Easy on the eyes too.


----------



## someguy4747

I just got mine in the mail. It is really cool. I love how small it is and it is kinda classy too. Too bad it doesn't work.  I'm not sure why. I put an eneloop in it and it flickered once and that was it. I tried 4 other alkalines they didn't work either. I knew a lot of people were having trouble using eneloops in their lights but I didn't think it would hurt to try. I usually only use eneloops in my aa and aaa lights. Did I mess up my light by using an eneloop? The light seems really cool. I kinda like the magnet. I also can't get over how small the light is. The GITD is also pretty cool. I don't think I have ever received a product that was DOA from anyone before. This really sucks. I'm sure 4sevens will make it right but for the meantime I'm pretty bummed. Any suggestions on what I can do to make my light work?


----------



## TheCleanerSD

Mine died after about a week. I'm waiting to here back from 4sevens customer service. : /


----------



## Got Lumens?

Yup, You need to call FourSevens if you bought it direct. They will take care of it.
GL


----------



## Streamer

Quote by: Burgess

"Anybody notice how the magnet makes battery removal a bit of a Challenge ? ? ?"



I keep a magnet on the desk. When I want to pull out the battery, that's what I use. No slap and sling.


----------



## Got Lumens?

Streamer said:


> Quote by: Burgess
> "Anybody notice how the magnet makes battery removal a bit of a Challenge ? ? ?"
> I keep a magnet on the desk. When I want to pull out the battery, that's what I use. No slap and sling.


The two I have come out fairly easily using Eneloops and Duracells. Maybe I have more gravity here 
Or maybe you have a super magnet in yours 
GL

Edit: That however is a good point. There does not seem to be clear instructions for removal of the battery.


----------



## Houdiny

Mine arrived yesterday. My worries that it could look and feel cheap have been destroyed, it feels nice and has a nice weight to it. 
However, there's a problem: at first it worked as it should but then it started to behave strangely. 8 out of 10 times it won't switch modes. When it changes from low to high I get a flickery "medium" that gets brighter when I twist the head even harder.
I've already contacted CS to see what can be done about that (since I live in Germany, the shipping costs back to FOURSEVENS would almost be half of the retail price...)


----------



## Streamer

Had planned on running lithium primarys in the P0 but since Eneloops wouldn't work and I had nothing to do I decided what the heck . 

I found that part of the problem was one of the chips on the board was almost touching the positive contact. And to compound things, the chip was also slightly higher than the contact thus making it impossible for the fatter node of the eneloop to find its way home. 

So, I removed the pill and soldered a node on the positive contact. 

It works with Eneloops now and of course alkalines and primary lithiums..


----------



## crizyal

Mine doesn't turn on reliably. It has the short circuit issue previously mentioned. I guess I will have to send it back (sigh).


----------



## The Shadow

Damn, I'm disappointed! I really like 4Sevens lights and wanted to like this light, but I've read too many complaints already. Seems like a crapshoot to try one now. Even if I got a good tint, the reliability issues are a dealbreaker for me, especially on a keychain light. And the short-circuit/overheating issue?!? NOT on a light I'll keep in my pocket!

Let's hope v2 is better, and 4Sevens does some QC before we all beta test them.


----------



## rdrfronty

Used my little light about 10pm last nite. Woke at 6:00 without power this morninig. Found my Preon pretty easy on my nightstand thanks to my still glowing GITD face. After 8 hrs it was plenty bright enough to do its intended purpose---locating your light in the dark. Good job 4sevens!


----------



## jonnyfgroove

If the positive contact gets the solder blob treatment, can the foam pad then be removed permanently?


----------



## tricker

Removed my foam doughnut, makes switching modes much more consistent 



o ring keeps the light water tight

magnet gets rid of battery rattle

doughnut just sucks


V2 just epoxy the bottom of the board and do away with the foam


----------



## Burntrice

Finally mine turned up in good old blighty! Firstly I have no issues, everything works as expected. I've not been able to use it in the environment for which I bought it yet, I will need to find files within boxes in a dark warehouse with metal racking so this sounds perfect.

I really love the beam and lack of hotspot, recently I've been flicking on my SC600 to read something in some of the darker corners of the warehouse only to be a little blinded by the hotspot. Please please FourSevens, at least look into making a RCR123 version of this light, an extra 100 or so lumen's would be fantastic.

I very nearly bought some eneloop's and a charger just for this little guy, from what I've read its a good job i didn't. This is the only downside IMO, going to cost a fair bit at only 1.5 hours per battery.

As far as I can see the Glow from the GITD does not effect the beam at any distance, if you hold it close to your hand you can see a green light from the GITD but 5 cm away, its gone. My GITD lasts for a good 5-6 hours btw.

I also bought a new camera today and grabbed a few pics before i put it on charge..


----------



## reeso

Burntrice, How long dId yours take to get to the UK?


----------



## Got Lumens?

I don't know why I did not measure this earlier in my videos. 
Probably because the eneloops started working:ironic: with a larger hole in the foam.
Duracell base of the buttontop ~3.3mm.
Eneloop base of the buttontop ~3.8mm.
Minimum clearance on one of my samples between the driver board components ~3.81mm, maybe 0.0005" clearance, thats 1/2 of one thousandth of one inch.

So until we see a V.2, IMO, I would not reccomend using Eneloops, they may damage/chip the driver components on the PCB. The foam alone will not prevent damage caused by over tightening the head trying to get Eneloops to work, and may or may not damage the lights driver and or the battery.

Since the Positive post of the battery and center contact on the driver are the switch, keep it well cleaned/protected for optimum results and consistent mode selection.

Even with this finding, I still like the light:thumbsup:
GL


----------



## Burntrice

reeso said:


> Burntrice, How long dId yours take to get to the UK?



11 days from when I received the 'shipped' notice


----------



## Streamer

Quote from Johnnyfgroove: "If the positive contact gets the solder blob treatment, can the foam pad then be removed permanently? "​



No. You need the pressure of the pad to keep everything snugged up to ensure positive contact and release. Think of it as a smooth yet firm hydraulic motion. Without the pad you will experience flickering and misfires.

So instead of enlarging the hole on my original foam pad to accomodate the Eneloop, I tried substituting properly sized orings and it worked fine. Also tried some soft rubber tubing I had with @ 1/4" ID and 3/8" OD. A piece @3/32" in length works perfectly in my case. YMMV


----------



## Streamer

Got Lumens? said:


> I don't know why I did not measure this earlier in my videos.
> Probably because the eneloops started working:ironic: with a larger hole in the foam.
> Duracell base of the buttontop ~3.3mm.
> Eneloop base of the buttontop ~3.8mm.
> Minimum clearance on one of my samples between the driver board components ~3.81mm, maybe 0.0005" clearance, thats 1/2 of one thousandth of one inch.
> 
> So until we see a V.2, IMO, I would not reccomend using Eneloops, they may damage/chip the driver components on the PCB. The foam alone will not prevent damage caused by over tightening the head trying to get Eneloops to work, and may or may not damage the lights driver and or the battery.
> 
> Since the Positive post of the battery and center contact on the driver are the switch, keep it well cleaned/protected for optimum results and consistent mode selection.
> 
> Even with this finding, I still like the light:thumbsup:
> GL



Interesting. In my case, the Eneloop could not make contact with the positive contact of the board, even with the foam removed. 

I have no way of measuring the clearances between IC's and positive contact. But I did see that one of the IC's was so close to the positive contact and slightly elevated, that there was no way the Eneloop could work. So in my case, I had to solder or send it back. I don't recommend this to anyone, but I am pleased with the results.


----------



## jonnyfgroove

So I pulled out the foam pad, and then wrapped the battery with paper to keep it centered and stable. Seems to be functioning much better so far.


----------



## Got Lumens?

Streamer said:


> Quote from Johnnyfgroove: "If the positive contact gets the solder blob treatment, can the foam pad then be removed permanently? "​No. You need the pressure of the pad to keep everything snugged up to ensure positive contact and release. Think of it as a smooth yet firm hydraulic motion. Without the pad you will experience flickering and misfires.


Agreed. Think of it as a spring used in a relay or contactor, where the driver center connector and Battery buttontop are the contactors.



Streamer said:


> Interesting. In my case, the Eneloop could not make contact with the positive contact of the board, even with the foam removed.
> 
> I have no way of measuring the clearances between IC's and positive contact. But I did see that one of the IC's was so close to the positive contact and slightly elevated, that there was no way the Eneloop could work. So in my case, I had to solder or send it back. I don't recommend this to anyone, but I am pleased with the results.


Testing is not complete and documented, but in my samples, I think the Eneloop may actually be getting pushed off center slightly to make contact. The Eneloop has a very slight cone shape and the priliminary distances between those two ICs is only 3.62mm in width and the highest component is 0.050mm in height, and the base of the Eneloops I have measure 3.8mm:thinking: Yet they are making consistant contact and mode changes. I do not reccomend it either, but the modding of the driver contact using a blob of soldier appears to be the only viable solution, assuming you wish to void the warranty.

I still like them :thumbsup:
GL


----------



## ama230

thank you for posting your dealings with this light. 

What method did you use whn you were solering. Any prep or did you use lead solder.

Also somebody metioned when you add solder to the node, can you remove the foam insert. The answer is definately yes. Then again when you drop the light, there is going to be no cushion when the battery hits the pcb from a drop on the head. Its definately not getting in the way and helps keep my threads from getting sloppy.

After the fix it will work great, I PROMISE! It makes sense when alkaline companies are getting manufactures to push their products. Sanyo doesn't have to push their product as it sells itself just like honda and toyota. 

Also, when you add some solder, you are going to lose a thread or two when twisting so dont add too much as a second attempt is going to be interesting!

Thanks for the early posters on this light as it helped me try a new style of all flood light and its definitely a winner in my book.

Othere, please post you occurrences as 4Sevens needs to see what is wrong. As a few phone calls from random people are only getting them to replace the lights and not second look it. We are here to help them make changes as the elders on here are experts and have seen small problems like this before and I have leaned much I have.

Thanks,
Eric


----------



## Streamer

Quote: Got Lumens?

"I do not reccomend it either, but the modding of the driver contact using a blob of soldier appears to be the only viable solution, assuming you wish to void the warranty."

*LOL*.._Warranty Schwarranty_..I've got it fixed to my likings now. :devil: *KEEP KEEP KEEP..! ! !

Below is solder mod and with new bushing added.






*


----------



## toylover

NickBose said:


> Sorry if it has been asked (just could not read through 400 plus posts)
> Why is this only 25 lumens?



I can't speak for the manufacturer but I think you would have to add one mode to the light so it would have Very Low, Medium and High, with a maximum output of about 70 lumens. This is certainly possible if you look at the other AAA lights on the market, e.g., ITP A3, etc. As it is, quality control issues notwithstanding, the limited maximum output is what prevents this light from being the perfect keychain companion.


----------



## budynabuick

Helmut.G said:


> btw, there is also a big potential difference in the perception between people, i.e. the threshold that determines whether you see a weak light or not is individually different. Maybe this can explain a part of the observed differences.




Yea, I have a friend that would need a 50 lm GITD to see it at all.


Keith


----------



## OutdoorsRandD

I have had my Foursevens Preon P0 for a bit more than a week. I have had no issues with it whatsoever. I'm still running the battery that came in it, a Duracell Alkaline. I'm interested in how long it lasts with a lithium AAA battery. Given the run time, and that I don't like to waste batteries, it will be a while before I get to try out a lithium battery in it.

I was very impressed with the floodlight consistency in both the low and high modes. The lack of ANY hotspot whatsoever just flat-out impressed me. I've not the considerable experience of many CPF members with various lights, but I've not seen anything like it.

At first, I thought the low mode was a bit too low, especially since it is a floodlight only, no narrow beam. The more I've used it though, the more I've realized it is quite useful. It doesn't dazzle your eyes, causing you to have to have a bright light to see your way around. If I need to see something in more light than the low mode, I just move the light closer to the item I want to see. Of course, if I need the high mode, it's just a twist away.

I like the magnet in the end for hands free working, but I've had to get used to it. I'm accustomed to holding the light in my mouth and pointing it that way. The magnet has a bit of a tangy taste and reminds me to look for somewhere to stick the light.

The glowing ring around the LED helps in finding it if you drop it after turning it off and somehow missing your pocket. Although not vividly bright for very long, it glows enough to be useful. It was still glowing enough for me to see it on my bedroom dresser seven hours after going to bed. The room was dark, the curtains were closed, and it was still dark outside.

Because of the floodlight beam, it makes a useful "candle" or gentle room illuminator on low. It does a pretty fair job of illuminating a room on high as well. If it lasts even just most of the 120 hours on low it's supposed to, and I've no reason to believe it won't, it will make a good night light while traveling and a good tent light and tent marking light while camping as well.

Overall, I think it's a good EDC light, and that's why I have it. It provides plenty of light to find your keys (low or high), for my wife to read a book while I drive at night without distracting me (low), and to change a tire if need be (high), though I have more and brighter lights for that that I keep in the truck.


----------



## mrlysle

Hi OutdoorsRandD. Glad you like your PO, but more importantly, :welcome:


----------



## SikDMAX

Got my 2nd P0 yesterday (first was stolen  ) and really love it. 0 issues, dropped an eneloop in and played around with it. Left it on low all night long on my nightstand as a candle, if you will. GITD works awesome. 

Found a great use for the magnet - its strong enough to stick itself horizontal to any electrical outlet or switch wallplate screw - instant room light at night!


----------



## Got Lumens?

Streamer said:


> Quote: Got Lumens?
> 
> "I do not reccomend it either, but the modding of the driver contact using a blob of soldier appears to be the only viable solution, assuming you wish to void the warranty."
> 
> *LOL*.._Warranty Schwarranty_..I've got it fixed to my likings now. :devil: *KEEP KEEP KEEP..! ! !
> 
> Below is solder mod and with new bushing added.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Looks good Streamer :thumbsup:
I bet that bushing of yours won't desintergrate like foam. Awsome job. Just so everyone that tries this knows, your soldier only needs to be ~0.75mm high to clear the components and give a little flat spot like pictured by Streamer.
GL


----------



## someguy4747

someguy4747 said:


> I just got mine in the mail. It is really cool. I love how small it is and it is kinda classy too. Too bad it doesn't work.  I'm not sure why. I put an eneloop in it and it flickered once and that was it. I tried 4 other alkalines they didn't work either. I knew a lot of people were having trouble using eneloops in their lights but I didn't think it would hurt to try. I usually only use eneloops in my aa and aaa lights. Did I mess up my light by using an eneloop? The light seems really cool. I kinda like the magnet. I also can't get over how small the light is. The GITD is also pretty cool. I don't think I have ever received a product that was DOA from anyone before. This really sucks. I'm sure 4sevens will make it right but for the meantime I'm pretty bummed. Any suggestions on what I can do to make my light work?





Got Lumens? said:


> So until we see a V.2, IMO, I would not reccomend using Eneloops, they may damage/chip the driver components on the PCB. The foam alone will not prevent damage caused by over tightening the head trying to get Eneloops to work, and may or may not damage the lights driver and or the battery.
> 
> GL



I wonder if I broke mine by putting the eneloop in it. I tried an eneloop first and only saw a quick flash of light and it never worked after that. The eneloop was the first battery I tried in it so I guess it could have been the eneloop or the light may of just been DOA. I wonder how long I will have to wait for another one considering they are now out of stock? Maybe they have a few extra for special circumstances?


----------



## Streamer

Yeh, it sucks having to wait for a replacement. I know how that feels.
I'm sure you tried alkalines?

And yes, it's possible the eneloop caused the failure if the alkalines don't work either.
That flash of light could have been the Eneloop causing a short and poof..hope not

I know 4 Sevens will make it right. And like you, I hate the w a i t i n....ggggggg.. 
Cheers.


----------



## Got Lumens?

someguy4747 said:


> I wonder if I broke mine by putting the eneloop in it. I tried an eneloop first and only saw a quick flash of light and it never worked after that. The eneloop was the first battery I tried in it so I guess it could have been the eneloop or the light may of just been DOA. I wonder how long I will have to wait for another one considering they are now out of stock? Maybe they have a few extra for special circumstances?


Someguy,
Sorry to hear about your light. Did you happen to try the AAA Duracell that it came with? If still no go, Give them a PM, Email, or phone call. They usually take care of these things pretty quickly. Let us know how you make out after you reach them.
GL


----------



## IRONMANq

So, its my turn to post all issues i got with my "P0-SS Lemonade"

- light flickers with all batterys including the Duracell from the box
- on eneloops it wont turn on 90% of the time
- sometimes light starts at low and "ramping" to high without doing anything after a few seconds
- LED offcenter (picture 1)
- BAD rotating work on the polish of the Head (picture 2)

Contacted fourseven and waiting for a solution 






Picture 1






Picture 2


----------



## Jay611j

IRONMANq said:


> So, its my turn to post all issues i got with my "P0-SS Lemonade"
> 
> - light flickers with all batterys including the Duracell from the box
> - on eneloops it wont turn on 90% of the time
> - sometimes light starts at low and "ramping" to high without doing anything after a few seconds
> - LED offcenter (picture 1)
> - BAD rotating work on the polish of the Head (picture 2)
> 
> Contacted fourseven and waiting for a solution


I had some of those same issues. I bought mine to use with eneloops because this light was going to see alot of use at night, but eneloops didn't work at all in it. I just gave it to a friend. I hope they come out with an improved model.


----------



## Got Lumens?

IRONMANq said:


> So, its my turn to post all issues i got with my "P0-SS Lemonade"
> 
> - light flickers with all batterys including the Duracell from the box
> - on eneloops it wont turn on 90% of the time
> - sometimes light starts at low and "ramping" to high without doing anything after a few seconds
> - LED offcenter (picture 1)
> - BAD rotating work on the polish of the Head (picture 2)
> 
> Contacted fourseven and waiting for a solution


Ironman,
It looks like it is the plastic GITD that is offcenter and defective by measuring using verniers on the picture on the screen. That mark where the beadblasting overlaps is a unique defect for sure. Flickering is not good. You have it all going on in one light, wow. Let us know how it turns out.
GL


----------



## staghater

As far i can see this light only + is size and GITD, nothing more at all.
There are much better lights out there.
Not exciting light at all :thumbsdow


----------



## budynabuick

It is amazing they put this light out there with so many glitches.
I realize that at twice the price the Klarus aaa might not be for some but 3 months later it works perfect. It is a beautiful light and when they get it straight it will go on my list (short list) of lights to procure. The only issue with the Klarus was the threads looked like they were cut by a beaver but i contacted dealer and they said if the head started getting to wobbly they would replace. I know this light will have to go back with in the year as a result of the thread issue. I said that to say that any co can have issues but if they fix them for you then no problem 9except the wait LOL)

Keith, who did not mean to take away from this thread


----------



## Flying Turtle

I'm still liking my P0. Using plumber's tape for the broken o-ring continues to work fine. It too bad this little guy has had such a troubled start. I'd like to see it be the platform for a series of lights.

Geoff


----------



## CheepSteal

Bad news  My Preon 0 just died today, worked great for about two days, it just stopped working out of nowhere today. It would only go onto moonlight and the head would head up significantly, wouldn't change modes. After waiting a bit, it stopped working completely. I've been using the stock battery too, didn't mess with eneloops or lithiums. Hopefully they fix this design, it just doesn't seem to work reliably.


----------



## crizyal

I am guessing we might see a recall. At least I hope we see one. It is clear to me that this light has at least one design flaw (dead shorting). I am sad to say 4sevens is probably reading all of these posts with great despair. I would think he has a significant investment in this potentially incredible tiny light. I am looking forward to version 2 also. My version 1 is unusable. I imagine that exchanging the one I have for an identical light will develop the same issue in _short_ order (based on what I have read here).


----------



## leon2245

4sevens said:


> I wonder why there are so many revisions for the dqg - while collectors may see this as reason to collect but but maybe they are just fixing problems as they sell out the previous? We went through so many design iterations to make sure we got it right the first time. Before we make the final product we refine so many things - industrial design, manufacturing optimization, and usability to name a few.
> By the way the P0's magnet is press fit so it should never ever fall out.



+1

I'll take the already refined option every time vs. paying to beta test the also rans. Would love to eventually see something like this for AA too, & a single mode version would be great!


----------



## pjandyho

Nobody wants a defective light and no reputable manufacturer want to deliver defective lights to their consumers. I applaud David for standing up and offering us a solution in time like this and I believe it is going to be real costly on his side. Thank you David.


----------



## tsask

VERY cool pic from johnnyfgroove posted above 
Ive got a couple MiniAA's and E01's . Ive been following this thread telling myself I don't need another AA from 4sevens ;-) After seeing this pic ....I give up!........ I gotta get one of these!!!


----------



## Harry999

Got Lumens? said:


> +1
> 
> Thank You David :thumbsup:
> This is one of the best reasons I like Four Sevens, they support thier products fully.
> GL



I agree completely. I continue to buy FourSevens because the one light I had an issue with they sent me an RMA for. They fixed it over Christmas and returned it to me with a new head in January for me to continue enjoying. Did I mention I am based in the UK?

I will definitely get a Preon PO-SS when the revised version allowing safe use of eneloop AAAs is available. Knowing how quickly FourSevens work that will not be long. 

In the meantime I second Leon's call above for an AA version of the Preon PO-SS. I appreciate us flashaholics are a small minority compared to the overall market FourSevens supplies but even if you did it as a limited run for CPF members I think you would be sold out quickly. An AA twisty with a moonlight mode and a 25-30 lumen level like the Preon PO-SS) or lower would be popular here.

I think people have been begging Fenix for an AA version of the EO1 (& EO5). An AA version of the Preon PO-SS with a capability to use all battery types would be a very good emergency or general use light. :thumbsup:


----------



## Got Lumens?

Harry999 said:


> I agree completely. I continue to buy FourSevens because the one light I had an issue with they sent me an RMA for. They fixed it over Christmas and returned it to me with a new head in January for me to continue enjoying. Did I mention I am based in the UK?
> 
> I will definitely get a Preon PO-SS when the revised version allowing safe use of eneloop AAAs is available. Knowing how quickly FourSevens work that will not be long.
> 
> In the meantime I second Leon's call above for an AA version of the Preon PO-SS. I appreciate us flashaholics are a small minority compared to the overall market FourSevens supplies but even if you did it as a limited run for CPF members I think you would be sold out quickly. An AA twisty with a moonlight mode and a 25-30 lumen level like the Preon PO-SS) or lower would be popular here.
> 
> I think people have been begging Fenix for an AA version of the EO1. An AA version of the Preon PO-SS with a capability to use all battery types would be a very good emergency or general use light. :thumbsup:


I agree with you Harry. If Four Sevens decides to build an AA version of this light, They could call it the PreonA, and maybe able to offer it in alluminum as well as SS due to the increased form factor. Let us be patient and I know they will come out with more great lights, and develop a fix for the Preon0.
GL


----------



## jds1

I've been using my P0 for several days, with the supplied primary, and everything is working as it should. Fit and finish is good and I've not experienced any flickering or random mode switching. I'm happy with my purchase.

Jeff


----------



## GuyZero

Flying Turtle said:


> ...I'd like to see it be the platform for a series of lights.



Yes - that could add letters to the end, like Zebralight, to designate the different versions:

The Flood version would be the P0F and the Spot version would be the _P0S_.

Oh, wait a minute, that's actually a terrible naming idea...

Seriously though; Kudos to 4Sevens for standing behind and working to fix their products. I may not be the right customer for every one of their lights, but I certainly do love the company!


----------



## thegreg

Hello all, sorry for my language, i'm from Poland and i'm new here.
I received today my Preon P0-SS, installed included battery, turned on nicely, switched mode - cool, turned off, turned on again and... 
Dead... Did not turned on again. 
The light is dead as dinosaurs.
Coll light but very very very short life.


----------



## JulianP

I received mine today and found that it worked well. I then tried it with an eneloop and...it still worked well. No flicker, no sudden death or overheating. I am therefore reading this thread with trepidation: I just love this little flashlight, and I'd hate to lose it.

If it keeps working with the eneloop, I will Velcro it to my glasses to read in bed at night.:naughty:

Edit: I checked my battery again, and realized I used a Sony CycleEnergy 800mAh. This is Sony's competitor to Sanyo's Eneloop (long shelf-life rechargeable). The CycleEnergy is indistinguishable in size from the Duracell Alkaline, perhaps explaining why the P0 is still working after turning it on and off many times over the past 24 hours. I think I will stick with it.


----------



## tucolino

well i received mine today,and have no problem with it.been playing with it for the last couple hours.
i put a gp recyko battery (got no aaa eneloops),and is working flawlessly.
i made some pictures comparing it with other aaa lights:






from left to right:liteflux lf2xt, fenix ldo1 ss, 47 preon revo ss, fenix e01, iluminatti, itp a3 ss, fenix e05, dqg 1 ss,dqg 2 and the preon p 0 ss.

there are ppl comparing this light with the dqgs.the only thing that they have in common is that they use aaa batteries,and are made in ss.even the preon is sorther than the dqg 2,that was the smallest light of my aaa collection.





love the flood beam,impressive the wall of light,no hotspot at all.don´t like the finish (sandblasted??),only got it 3 hours ago,and there are visible marks already.
do not know about the gitd on the front,it´s still early,gotta wait till night.
anyway,nice little light.
i´m sorry for the ppl having problems with it,and also for low quality of pictures,gotta use my cell phone.


----------



## toylover

The more I use my P0 the more I appreciate the flood coverage. When looking for something in the car, in the drunk, under the desk to find a tiny screw that rolled off the table, etc., the flood allows me to find everything right away. With my other lights I have to scan all over the place before I find what I am looking for. I still would like to see more light coming out of it though when I am in a larger room or outside.

Here is a crazy idea: why not create a new model and add a zoom to this thing? Of course it will be a bit larger and more expensive but if it is a quality item I'll buy a dozen!


----------



## jonnyfgroove

Doh, I can see my little friend is headed for shortsville. This is from the included alkaline, I've never tried an eneloop in there. Anyway, I love this little light and I hope the quirks get squared away...


----------



## jag-engr

4sevens said:


> By the way the glow in the dark piece is a a rubber injection part impregnated with glow in the dark material. It was a minor thing that was added near the end of the prototyping stage.


How hard would this piece be to remove if someone were to want to epoxy in some trit vials around the emitter...


----------



## Got Lumens?

jonnyfgroove said:


> Doh, I can see my little friend is headed for shortsville. This is from the included alkaline, I've never tried an eneloop in there. Anyway, I love this little light and I hope the quirks get squared away...


JohnnyGroove,
I have the same findindings. I am actually working on an update for the videos I posted. I used my USB microscope for the clarity. The outer protective shell should not wear as easily and quickly as it has on the two samples I have. 
I still really like this light, it's purpose and size are great:thumbsup:
GL



. . . Click to Enlarge


----------



## jonnyfgroove

Nice work GL! Now we can really see what's going on.


----------



## mrlysle

I'm totally dumbfounded as to a problem like this getting into production! Especially with David saying, here's the quote, "We went through so many design iterations to make sure we got it right the first time. Before we make the final product we refine so many things - industrial design, manufacturing optimization, and usability to name a few." It's almost like the foam ring was an afterthought to cover up the space between the IC's and the center tab. Not saying David had anything to do with it, he probably had no idea, really. I love the little light, but I just started having a little flickering last night when switching modes. I'll pull the foam ring after work and see if I see what I'm afraid I'll see! LOL Anyway, I know David will make all these lights right, but I believe I'd be after somebody's *** on this one! Pardon the language.


----------



## Burntrice

I had a bit of a nightmare today, I dropped my P0! While in work and replacing the battery the little bugger slipped out of my hand and fell through the grated floor I was stood on, about *30 feet* to a concrete floor.





I considered myself lucky to even find both parts to be honest, the head seemed undamaged, the battery holding end had landed on the thread end, denting it to the point where the battery would not fit in. 

After a little effort and brut force I've bent the casing back to allow the battery in, and it works!


Its a shame i bought this light just to use in work but now I think I'd feel better with something a little larger that wont fit through the grated floor. Lesson learned, this is now relegated to my bedside cabinet.


----------



## squaat

Houdiny said:


> ... However, there's a problem: at first it worked as it should but then it started to behave strangely. 8 out of 10 times it won't switch modes. When it changes from low to high I get a flickery "medium" that gets brighter when I twist the head even harder...



Yep this is what I'm now experiencing when using eneloops. I found that there is a sweet spot for tightening. I haven't checked out the wear on my IC's yet. I have also noticed that the slightly raised negative terminal has left a circular mark on my eneloops.

However I still love this light. There is one on back order for a non-flashaholic friend. I feel for 4Sevens, but don't worry David and co, you still have my business. Don't mind the negative voices, your reputation for standing behind your products is louder than that.


----------



## AnAppleSnail

Burntrice said:


> Its a shame i bought this light just to use in work but now I think I'd feel better with something a little larger that wont fit through the grated floor. Lesson learned, this is now relegated to my bedside cabinet.



Try the same thing with a clip, or pocket hanger clip. The bonus size might do the trick!


----------



## Houdiny

squaat said:


> Yep this is what I'm now experiencing when using eneloops. I found that there is a sweet spot for tightening. I haven't checked out the wear on my IC's yet. I have also noticed that the slightly raised negative terminal has left a circular mark on my eneloops.
> 
> However I still love this light. There is one on back order for a non-flashaholic friend. I feel for 4Sevens, but don't worry David and co, you still have my business. Don't mind the negative voices, your reputation for standing behind your products is louder than that.



Sadly my light now won't go to high mode anymore. It just stays on low and I cannot do anything to fix that. I tried cleaning all contacts and threads but nothing helped.
I'm still waiting on CS to get back to me, I guess they've probably a lot on theis hands right now.
Just to be clear, I love this little light and I already ordered another one!


----------



## bugout

Mine is working great. The magnet is really handy.


----------



## someguy4747

Well, this morning I called 4Sevens about my DOA P0. I talked to Trevor, he apologized and said to send the light back. He said they would refund me for shipping and that when the next batch of lights was made I would have one sent to me. I think he could tell I wasn't thrilled but I knew there wasn't anything else he could do. He seemed kinda ready for me to vent on him as soon as I told him I had an issue with a P0. I did ask him if there would be anything different about the new P0 that I would receive considering all the problems. He said it would only be different in the way that it would work. So I guess I will wait and see how the new light is when it comes. Got Lumens helped me to figure out that my PCB was likely damagedby trying to use an Eneloop. I'll see if I can't get a good photo of it sometime tomorrow.


----------



## ergotelis

Here is my report.
Got it today, First impressions:
-Nice one, shows high quality flashlight.
-It is a good copy of DQG, there is definitely some kind of relationship between the two projects.
-Magnet is good, better than DQG.
-Twisting is a bit difficult with one hand, in DQG it is better.
-Two modes are really good, what is needed for most people, one good runtime and one good output for all in home tasks and basic outdoor tasks.
-Lithium energizer fits very tightly in the tube, you need a plier to remove it.
-Very floody one
-The whole package is very nice, especially for gift.
-The price is good too

Other than the flashlight and its features, i want to add something here for 4sevens. I am guessing that 4sevens is not going to make profit out of this,i believe that he might have losses too, but still it is a good way to advertise themselves with a cheap, easily noticed(due to keychain) flashlight. I am pretty sure too that they are going to have a lot of RMA's, as in DQG project i don't think that this driver is trustworthy. And moreover, most batteries damage the ICs in the circuit. I think that it is a bad choice of driver, DQGs had a lot of fails due to their driver. David, you should have to be more careful in the selection of the driver.


Overall I like Preon P0, But my dream edc has to have:
-Neutral color
-one general good runtime mode
-not throwy not floody something in the middle
-magnet
-glow in the dark 

So with the Preon E0 and a DQG II(which was dead), i made it by using the preon Eo circuit, DQG xp-g R4 led, PReon body and DQG head. I don't know why, but lower mod was dissabled, can't explain how, better for me, the one 30 lumen mode i got now is all i wanted. With the Preon body i have a better attachment clip method too, with the head of DQG twisting the light with one hand is very easy now, due to knurling. Of course, if you don't know exactly what to do or if you are not experienced and you know that this will void your warranty, i have to say: "DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" . If you want, i will post some beamshots too.
Moreover, i tried by removing the two ICs that touch the batteries, to re-put them a bit more out of the center, in order not to face the problem with the battery contact. I think i did it fine, but low mode was dissabled somehow, don't know what happened, but i don't mind, i didn't need such a low mode in this flashlight.

Here are some random pictures i took:
Using some thin pliers and a heat gun i removed the led, in order to put the xp-g R4 neutral.




Some dimensions of the parts to see where is the difference in total length:











The circuits look the same, with some differences in some resistances.







Ops i damaged the xp-e , i am not very careful, anyway i have to mod it to put the xp-g R4.





Next to a DRY, just for reference:




Final mod with what is leftP) :




The parts of Preon P0:




The heads vs the lenses:





The lenses, this is why basically Preon is shorter and floodier:






The bodies, these two are completely the same, if we don't mind the clip attach method and the knurling of DQG:









See the difference in attaching the clip?Way better in Preon.




Some other popular EDC of the same category, i guess you know them:






The glow in the dark ring of Preon, and a comparison to the custom made GITD feature of DRY.


----------



## Got Lumens?

The question about the lines on the bottom of cells used in the P0...



. . . Click to Enlarge
GL


----------



## AlphaZen

toylover said:


> When looking for something in the car, in the drunk...


:hahaha: :drunk:​
Sorry, I couldn't resist hazing the new guy a bit.
Seriously, though:​:welcome:​


----------



## shelm

@ergotelis
your DQG II was dead. but assuming that it was still good (XP-G R4, NeutralWhite), could you have simply swapped the heads and made the DQG head work on the P0 body?
the point is, the P0 body has a better keyring attachment point and a better magnet, which makes it desirable over the DQG body. And the DQG head seems to me superior to the P0 head : DQG is brighter, with a more focused flood, and better tint.

And what about the design of the PCB? Your DQG is dead, but isnt the P0's PCB even worse? So many people in this thread have been experiencing trouble with the crowded PCB parts and the small center pole area. The center pole area of the DQG PCB looks a little more uncongested. Wider. Not as many people reported problems with the DQG afaik.

So i am thinking a good acquisition strategy would be: buying first the DQG Tiny III (SS or Ti) and seeing how it holds up. If it doesnt die but the DQG body begins to show issues with the magnet and keyring attachment point (the wire, yikes!!!), then one could buy the Preon P0 and use its body to replace the DQG body.

Btw, thanks for all your efforts. Valuable contribution. :thumbsup:


----------



## ergotelis

shelm said:


> @ergotelis
> your DQG II was dead. but assuming that it was still good (XP-G R4, NeutralWhite), could you have simply swapped the heads and made the DQG head work on the P0 body?


If the DQG head was working, then yes, this would be possible. But anyway, i wanted a medium mode like Preon high mode, so the mod perfectly fits my needs! The high on dqg doesn't have enough runtime while low, doesn;t have enough lumens!


shelm said:


> the point is, the P0 body has a better keyring attachment point and a better magnet, which makes it desirable over the DQG body. And the DQG head seems to me superior to the P0 head : DQG is brighter, with a more focused flood, and better tint.
> 
> And what about the design of the PCB? Your DQG is dead, but isnt the P0's PCB even worse? So many people in this thread have been experiencing trouble with the crowded PCB parts and the small center pole area. The center pole area of the DQG PCB looks a little more uncongested. Wider. Not as many people reported problems with the DQG afaik.


I already have 2 DQG fails and one more to a friend of mine. As far as i know, there are quite enough fails.


shelm said:


> So i am thinking a good acquisition strategy would be: buying first the DQG Tiny III (SS or Ti) and seeing how it holds up. If it doesnt die but the DQG body begins to show issues with the magnet and keyring attachment point (the wire, yikes!!!), then one could buy the Preon P0 and use its body to replace the DQG body.
> 
> Btw, thanks for all your efforts. Valuable contribution. :thumbsup:


Thanks for your good comments! I believe that there will be no DQG III. Hope that i will be wrong though!


----------



## shelm

too many reported fails then with both the P0 and the DQG, argh! I guess you were not able to fix the failed DQG's? (There are official torture tests videos of the DQG that's why it seemed quite rugged. But if the plus pole of the battery rubs down the PCB parts (IC), then no good lol!)


ergotelis said:


> I believe that there will be no DQG III. Hope that i will be wrong though!


On cpfmp in Dealer's Corner in post#114 of the dealer's thread (DQG *II* AAA...) the dealer mentioned that a limited production run is going to be launched very soon, in SS. ( there are still problems with the provision of tritium parts for the III in Titanium. )

No! all thanks goes to you ergotelis!!!


----------



## Streamer

Got Lumens? said:


> The question about the lines on the bottom of cells used in the P0...
> 
> 
> 
> . . . Click to Enlarge
> GL


hmmmm...how serious is this and especially for eneloops. How thick are the eneloop bottoms? Or is this nothing to really worry about?


----------



## gbelleh

I had that issue with my Eneloop getting a circle etched into its base. I was concerned at first, but it doesn't seem to be very deep, and not getting any deeper. I'm keeping an eye on it, but I doubt it will cause any problems.


----------



## Streamer

gbelleh said:


> I had that issue with my Eneloop getting a circle etched into its base. I was concerned at first, but it doesn't seem to be very deep, and not getting any deeper. I'm keeping an eye on it, but I doubt it will cause any problems.



yep, just trying to keep the little guy in check. Since it's a magnet at the base of the tube, honing it flush is a no go.


----------



## mhearts

Very compact, I think i will buy one for each of my cars


----------



## Got Lumens?

Streamer said:


> hmmmm...how serious is this and especially for eneloops. How thick are the eneloop bottoms? Or is this nothing to really worry about?


Nothing to worry about, You can see it and feel it with your nail, but it is very shallow, like taking a scribe to it or a scraping the bottom on a the edge of something, just annoying not dangerous.
GL


----------



## jorn

The P0 head fits the DQG body without problems, everything is working fine. My DQG head is smaller and wont fit the P0 body at all, so the threads are not a 100% match.
The P0 got the purest tint, almost pure white (just a tiny hint of blue). The DQG (angry green hulk tint) has a more useful beampattern for my edc use. 
One is smooth SS, it wont grind down your keys and is pocket friendly. The other is sharp knurled SS, and is more user friendly, but will eat your pocket stuff faster.
I need one small spilt ring on my DQG II for it to hang in harmony with the rest of my keys. I need 2 on the P0 for it to hang the way i want. The magnet can be kind of annoying on my magnetic keyring. 
The glowstuff on the P0 is way more visible than the stuff on the DQG. Both do the job.
Modes are a little twitchy on my P0. If i just twist it fast, then i wont know what mode it will turn on in. I have no problems with switching between modes when its on. If i twist the head slow. It will turn on in lo, then turn off at certian point, and come back on again in hi mode. I kind of like that. 1/4 slow twist from off is lo, and just keep twisting 1/4 more is high 99% of the time. Using Tenergy and Duracell NIMH with no issues. 
I'm glad i got both.

It's spacing is really good. Lo mode is discrete and useful. The "25" lumens looks impressive compared with my 80 lumen zebralight h30. Way better than i expected. Both 100% flood, but the P0 got a little wider beam than the h30. IMO a higher hi mode would just be a waist of runtime. It would kill the good runtime for a meter extra reach.

Edit: fixed the twitchy mode switching. It uses no threadlock, so you need to tighten the pill really hard. If the pressure/twist motion on the foam pad can make the pill move ever so slightly, then it will ruin the reability on the mode switching.


----------



## Got Lumens?

jorn said:


> Edit: fixed the twitchy mode switching. It uses no threadlock, so you need to tighten the pill really hard. If the pressure/twist motion on the foam pad can make the pill move ever so slightly, then it will ruin the reability on the mode switching.


Use Caution, over tightening the pill will expand the oring out of the front.

The conductive path between the alluminum pill and the SS body is not an easy fix. 
While I could stake it or add a burr to the pills threads, I chose the safer route and applied a very thin coat of No-Ox to the alluminum pill after carefully using a small wire brush to clean it. 
I would like to see a spring wire on the edge of the pills board or better still a positive stop like stopping the threads at the correct point so that the pill can screw against it to eliminate the frustration of an intermittent connection causing unwanted mode changes. 
It's a great little light and I'm keeping mine:thumbsup:
GL


----------



## jorn

Removed the foam pad and polished all the light today. Now it feels more like the DQG. Super smooth, and everything works perfect. It's really easy to twist now. With the foam, I was always wondering if i was torquing it too hard. IMO it feels far better witout the foam. I see no need for knurling when it's this smooth. Now the battery rattles some, but i dont mind on a keychain, everything ratles on my keychain, so i dont notice the difference. My DQG has no magnet in the tail, so the battery rattle is worse on the DQG.
Now its all shiny like the old preon ti. Polishing it was a 5 min job. Strap it in a eletric drill and use a rag with rubbing.


----------



## chris975d

Did the "solder blob" mod to both of my Preon P0s yesterday, then filed the blob down flat to about 0.5mm higher than the IC chips surrounding the positive contact on the driver. Reinstalled the pill, put foam back in, and presto...perfectly working PO with Eneloops. Gone is the occasional mode flickering and shorting out when using Eneloops. As Got Lumens? and jorn said above though, make sure to tighten the pill very snug so that the conductive path solid. I'm keeping both of mine now too. Fantastic little lights once they are working solidly.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

it is too bad that the fabled Preon has a design flaw. this will totally prevent wide distribution, no one
will want to carry and sell these if you have to tweak them. the IC's are just located poorly. need a blob
of epoxy on them as a cheap fix. need to redesign the circuit as a perma-fix. this could have been on
store shelves like the Fenix E11, but not in it's current state. need a Preon P0 v 1.1 to show up

I commend the effort, this is a tough job running a company. if it were easy I would design and sell lights,
but it takes committment and ability to bounce back from this stuff, -and- also everything else a business
needs including capital for making changes


----------



## shelm

127.0.0.1 said:


> need a blob of epoxy on them as a cheap fix.


this is actually an excellent idea!!

Why not cover the circuit parts with hot glue (transparent epoxy or similar) as general protection, and then file the blob layer down and finally bore (or drill) a center hole down to the PCB's center plate/pole for the battery nub?
This measure would also counteract eventual shorts!

DQG Tiny III is in the making with improvements but if the PCB layout (location of the IC's) is again poor or unimproved, then i will consider blobbing the IC's with hot glue. It's like potting the driver!!

The main reason why the driver doesnt come potted or epoxied is: the manufacturing tolerances are too fine and thus too expensive. Maybe someone on the forum can share a photo series of the epoxying measure.


----------



## RedForest UK

On a side note, the P0 fits perfectly in the top tube of my Toollogic SLPro utility knife, as the original provided light is a bit rubbish and uses 4 tiny coin cells it was a big improvement in power and practicality. I used the original magnet tail as a base with a couple of small neodynium magnets attached to it and all epoxied in the back. It all comes together perfectly, and the P0's finish even matches up very nicely with the matte finish of the knife.

To clarify, I didn't mean I stuck the tail magnet of the preon into the tube. I used the tail magnet section of the original cheapo light provided with the SLPro as a base at the back of the top tube and epoxied that in with a couple of neodynium magnets. The Preon P0 then magnetically attaches quite strongly (can't shake it out at all) to the base in the tube. So it is still removable, but easy to put back in again.


----------



## jorn

For me, the only "fix" really needed was to tighten the pill. This is common with all "no threadlock" lights i own.
Most of my lights (and other stuff) are tweaked in some way. I think i only got 4 or 5 100% stock lights left, some of them are hiding from me right now  

I think it's no threadlock because it will be messy with a short pill, and youll prob end up with a mess on the inside of the lense on a high % under production. 
If you put threadlock on the pill and screw it in, it will really be no treadlock left on it when it's screwed all the way in there. And you will have to clean up the threads in the head really good on all samples. <-- not fast , not cheap.
If you put threadlock on the inside of the head, (short pill = close to the lense). The pill might push some threadlock in front of it, and mess up the lense and gitd plate. You can apply a tiny amount using a toothpick and a slo and steady hand. But it's not fast, and there will be a mess on the lense in some %, especially if you are in a hurry. This is not a problem for usual sized reflector lights. 
I have drop tested the P0 on my tile floor ~15 times from the hips with no problems, and it's waterproofing is way better than the former "worlds smallest aaa" :thumbsup: 
If the P0 can handle a eneloop or not is not a major consern for the common marked. Sounds like eneloop needs to redesign their aaa battery.

Here is a pic of the quick polish job. The logo is still there under the clip. Taken with a mobilephone, but not all that bad.


----------



## Flying Turtle

Nice work, Jorn! It looks classier now.

I haven't needed, yet, to tighten the pill. I'll wait til it starts acting up. Sometimes the LF2XT needs some tweaking like that.

Hope some O-rings are available soon, though plumber's tape works pretty well.

Geoff


----------



## jorn

The lf2xt was acting up repetedly until i gave is as mutch torqe as i dared 
Loving the new shiny look on the P0, it fittet snug in my drill. I could see the tube shine after seconds of rubbing. Used the normal household stuff used on cars and got pro results.  It's also way more scratch resistance than the oldstyle shiny preon ti.
Hoping the pill will hold up on the p0, but it's a twisty, so it got something working against it here. If it works it's way loose again, i might carefully add a 1/4 of a drop with superglue on the threads in the head. I have been playing alot with it now, and no signs of the pill coming loose or mode switching yet.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

jorn said:


> If the P0 can handle a eneloop or not is not a major consern for the common marked. Sounds like eneloop needs to redesign their aaa battery.



huh ? the circuit and IC type and location is clearly poorly designed. eneloop doesn't need to be redesigned. the Preon does.

no one should have to monkey with a light to make it function. none of my aaa lights ever had an issue that the P0 does with shorting
due to the ic legs so close to the pos batt terminal. stinks because I wanna buy 5 of these Preons but I am gonna have to wait
for the next version. I cannot gift out a light that can have complications


----------



## toylover

127.0.0.1 said:


> ... I wanna buy 5 of these Preons but I am gonna have to wait
> for the next version. I cannot gift out a light that can have complications



I'm in the same position. I want to buy them as gifts but they won't be going to techie people so they gotta work flawlessly right out of the box. Hopefully by next Xmas;-)


----------



## Got Lumens?

jorn said:


> Here is a pic of the quick polish job. The logo is still there under the clip. Taken with a mobilephone, but not all that bad.


Jorn,
Very Nice, very nice indeed. Good job, looks great:thumbsup:
What clip did you use?
GL


----------



## Samy

I was going to get a couple but i want to use Eneloops. I will hold off for a while...


cheers


----------



## shelm

jorn said:


> Here is a pic of the quick polish job. The logo is still there under the clip. Taken with a mobilephone, but not all that bad.



why have you wet the light?
doesnt make any sense to me


----------



## Got Lumens?

jorn said:


> I have drop tested the P0 on my tile floor ~15 times from the hips with no problems, and it's waterproofing is way better than the former "worlds smallest aaa" :thumbsup:
> If the P0 can handle a eneloop or not is not a major consern for the common marked. Sounds like eneloop needs to redesign their aaa battery.





shelm said:


> why have you wet the light?
> doesnt make any sense to me



I think he may have just finished testing waterproofness :shrug:


----------



## jorn

127.0.0.1 said:


> huh ? the circuit and IC type and location is clearly poorly designed. eneloop doesn't need to be redesigned. the Preon does.


Location? where would you put them if you were trying to make the wolds smallest aaa light? Add ~1.5mm on the P0's lenght, and your'e out. The maker of the DQG even skipped a o-ring in front of the optic to save length. So you really need to make compromises all the way to beat the size of it. My DQG is not waterproof around the optic, and got the exact same layout on the driverboard btw. 
My sample looks good. It's no way it can short out by the nipple hitting paths on the driver.
If Eneloop makes a poor copy of a aaa shape, then it's 4sevens responsibility to fix it by making a new v2? I have tested 7 different batteries, 2 NIMH and 5 types of alkalines now, no problem. 
There might be some lemons out there, but keep in mind that it was sold out really fast (many samples out there by now). And i havent seen too many complaint's about lights shorting out. But i dont doubt there are lemons that might short out. I bet most of the copmplaints is fixed with a tightened pill. A loose pill in a multimode twisty, gives all sorts of failure syndroms. 



> What clip did you use?
> GL


From the maratac aaa cu. the cu version comes with 3 clips. The clip is stripped for paint and polished with a dremel.



> why have you wet the light?
> doesnt make any sense to me


I tried to capture how shiny it turned out. Crome like shiny stuff + macro shot and mobilephone was a hard job. When i finally (after ca 20 shots) got a semisharp picture without glare, i saw the p0 was full of dust and fingerprints:shakehead So soap and water it was. couldent toutch the light so i held it after the spilt ring and shooked off most of the water before photoshoot nr2


----------



## 127.0.0.1

Got Lumens? said:


> I think he may have just finished testing waterproofness :shrug:



polishing compound has to come off somehow.


----------



## Houdiny

FOURSEVENS just got a new and supposedly updated batch of P0s in! The status on their website is back to "Buy now".


----------



## bltkmt

Houdiny said:


> FOURSEVENS just got a new and supposedly updated batch of P0s in! The status on their website is back to "Buy now".



How do you know they are "updated"?


----------



## Streamer

bltkmt said:


> How do you know they are "updated"
> 
> Just got off phone with 4 sevens. Was told (by female) there was a new o-ring and that was all. I asked about the eneloop problem and was told " they officialy have not announced a problem."
> 
> I wouldn't order one yet.


----------



## Houdiny

bltkmt said:


> How do you know they are "updated"?



Well, I asked if their new batch was revised in any way and was told that the new batch was "supposedly updated".
I still hope that the P0 isn't faulty by design. If the new o-ring is the only thing that got changed there must be a reason for that. Perhaps they just turned their quality control up a notch, so the flickery and not-mode-changing P0s a few of us experienced don't get to the customers any more.


----------



## Streamer

They haven't had time to remedy...I seriously doubt they have "updated" the issues we have been discussing on the "eneloop" problem and the misfits that go along with it (i.e. IC's in the way of eneloop node and resulting short circuits).


----------



## jorn

I think 4sevens and the "dqg dude" buys the pill from the same company. They look almost exactly the same. The layout on the driverboard is identical on both. There are some extra holes in the p0 board, and slightly different coulor. They have different outputs so i guess they can't be exactly the same. My DQG have been my trusty edc for some time now and with no issues or hickups at all. So im not worried about the design. The only thing i worry about, is the pill coming loose and make my light twitchy when i dont have the time to fix it.. Or a drop on the head will crack something on the driverboard. (i removed the protective/anti-rattle foam pad for smoother twist action, and thats the reason why i felt the need to drop test my P0.)
I would like one of those "one modes"  played around with a qtc pill and it worked out really nice when in hi mode. Ramping P0  (worked really nice both when the qtc were placed on the pill, and in the bottom of the tube.) Qtc is magnetic, so it was held secure in place by the magnet, but a pain to fish it out


----------



## kaichu dento

127.0.0.1 said:


> no one should have to monkey with a light to make it function... I wanna buy 5 of these Preons but I am gonna have to wait for the next version. I cannot gift out a light that can have complications


+1
I wanted to buy at least a few but the excitement of a tiny light with nice low level is greatly diminished by the need to fiddle before being able to reliably use one. 
Some have been lucky and others not - I'd like to buy mine after the bugs are worked out and they could easily have had much higher sales levels initially if they'd done all the trouble shooting before shipping them to all of you guys to do it for them.


----------



## this_is_nascar

Prior to purchasing my (2) P0's, the last thing I purchased were several E05's and Revo's. Boy, how time and fame has changed the customer service provided by 4Sevens. I used to get an email reply with 24-hours. Now, an email to CS goes for a couple/few days before getting a human response. I guess 4Sevens will evenually become like most other small companys that went big, forgetting about quality customer service.


----------



## jorn

He sold out pretty quick, so higher sales could not be possible i guess 

I dont think the ic's is getting moved just so the eneloop nipple will fit. You can't rotate the ic's, then the legs are exposed. And its no room to move them any wider apart. If the pill is getting loose, it's no big deal. The hi-lo ring on my malkoff gets loose now and then, and no one complaints about it. I think this light is mutch better than it sounds like here  I got many exellent aaa lights to choose between, but the P0 rides on my keycain.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

they need to use MLP instead of huge SMD IC's they chose

that would fix everything

costs more to make

or put the IC's on the other side of the board

or bury them in epoxy


----------



## 4sevens

Customer service post removed in violation of dealer/manufacture policies


----------



## jorn

> or put the IC's on the other side of the board
> 
> or bury them in epoxy


Both sides of the board is packed. The glow disc covers up all the stuff on the top side.
Epoxy woulden't help eneloop users.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

I just got my hands on one and checked it out. now I know the eneloop problem better.

they do need to spec MLP IC's 
that way they can keep the design intact but the IC will be far more flush to the board
and allow room for eneloop heads

or make the light 2 threads longer and bring the pos contact up


----------



## Got Lumens?

127.0.0.1 said:


> I just got my hands on one and checked it out. now I know the eneloop problem better.
> they do need to spec MLP IC's
> that way they can keep the design intact but the IC will be far more flush to the board
> and allow room for eneloop heads or make the light 2 threads longer and bring the pos contact up


I agree, about the components specs. In height there's currently ~1mm battery shoulder clearance. The space between the components and center needs ~0.25mm more. Raising the contact ~0.50mm in height(3/4 thread) requires retooling and conflicts with design concepts. Energizer Lithiums are working fine. Let's wait and see what develops. I too want to use Eneloops.
GL

Edit: There are only two components that are causing the problem of not being able to use Eneloops.


----------



## JulianP

I agree that a flashlight should work with all types of batteries, including eneloops. Having said that, I've now used my Preon P0 for five days with Sony's Cycle Energy rechargeables, with no problem whatsoever. Being a CPF member and subscriber to this thread, I have nervously turned it on and off many times per day thinking it would soon malfunction. This did not happen. In a couple of weeks I will order a few more Preons, for other family members and for my bedside. As a night owl, I have taken to walking around the house with the Preon on moonbeam, to retrieve stuff like my cell phone and iPad. When I need both hands, I just put the Preon in my mouth like a cigarette. It's so light that it can be held this way for a few minutes with minimal discomfort. Weird, I know, but it's yet another use for this flashlight. Okay, no eneloops or 10440's, but until something better comes along, this is it for me.


----------



## Flying Turtle

JulianP said:


> Being a CPF member and subscriber to this thread, I have nervously turned it on and off many times per day thinking it would soon malfunction.



This sounds so familiar.

I've only tried using some old Energizer and Duracell NiMH's, with no problems.

Geoff


----------



## rdrfronty

Ok guys, I understand most like eneloops. They are great batteries. But I don't see why wanting to use them would warrant modifying a new little light just to make it fit. I mean if you really like tinkering with stuff and knowing these little lights are pretty cheap, sure ok, to each their own hobby. But what is really wrong with using the standard alkaline that comes with it? I've been using the Preon as my edc for about two weeks now using the duracell that came with it. It's hard to say just how long it will last, but I'd be surprised if it doesn't over a month. And with the cost of a AAA Duracell I should be able to keep it powered for a year for $5. So why take a chance of screwing up a perfectly good little light with a big button top battery like the eneloop? I guess if you really use your edc a bunch at work, etc. I guess an eneloop starts makes more sense. But at just over the cost of a gallon a gas to power my Preon for a year as a edc-I'm pretty content with a good alkaline. 
I guess I just love my little preon and couldn't see chopping on it. Of course I haven't been a flashaholic as long as most here and am afraid to mess up any of my new prized possessions


----------



## swxb12

Out of the box, I'm having the same type of flaky mode changes with Duracells, Eneloops and Energizer Ultimate Lithiums. Considering returning it now


----------



## jonnyfgroove

My P0 is showing signs of wear and potential shorting and I've only used the included alkaline.:shrug:


----------



## 127.0.0.1

rdrfronty said:


> Ok guys, I understand most like eneloops. They are great batteries. But I don't see why wanting to use them would warrant modifying a new little light just to make it fit. I mean if you really like tinkering with stuff and knowing these little lights are pretty cheap, sure ok, to each their own hobby. But what is really wrong with using the standard alkaline that comes with it?



because this is in the gift-light category and no one wants to be gifted a flaky light. like getting coal for christmas...

almost all similar lights simply -work-

no one wants to be locked into alkalines because eneloops have more benefits than simply 'being rechargable'


----------



## jorn

swxb12 said:


> Out of the box, I'm having the same type of flaky mode changes with Duracells, Eneloops and Energizer Ultimate Lithiums. Considering returning it now


 Tighten the pill.



> almost all similar lights simply -work-
> 
> no one wants to be locked into alkalines because eneloops have more benefits than simply 'being rechargable'


The only, even close to similar light, is the DQG. Overalll, the cheaper P0 feels like it's better buildt. The rest is huge compared with the P0 and DQG. And youre not locked into alkalines. Eneloops is the only NIMH i know of that might not fit.

Here is a pic with some other current controlled aaa lights.


----------



## rdrfronty

However the thing about gift giving is that non flashlight people likely never heard of eneloop and would usually use energizer and duracells. But flaky lights certainly would be a poor gift. My light is working flawlessly, but I guess I'm one of the lucky 1/2 of the owners. Guess they are a hit & miss.


----------



## Got Lumens?

jonnyfgroove said:


> My P0 is showing signs of wear and potential shorting and I've only used the included alkaline.:shrug:


As Jonny mentioned above, There seems to be some tollerance differances in the PCB driver boards. My second sample that has used only Duracell alkaline battery does show a slight wear mark on one of the chips. I am confident that this will not cause future problems as there is some side to side give(0.15mm) with the battery and appears to have stopped with no further wear.



127.0.0.1 said:


> because this is in the gift-light category and no one wants to be gifted a flaky light. like getting coal for christmas...
> almost all similar lights simply -work-
> no one wants to be locked into alkalines because eneloops have more benefits than simply 'being rechargable'


I agree. This is not a problem for CPF crowd, but poses challanges to the non-flashaholic and public that are not adept at cleaning, connections, and proper lubrication that most flashlight in this catagory require. 

I think one solution to this problem would be for Four Sevens to develop and sell a maintenance kit for thier flashlights. A simple and easy to understand guide that explains causes of flicker/dim output(dirt/debris/weak battery/etc.) and how to remedy them using the kit. 

I am sure that Four Sevens is aware that some folks like and want to use Eneloop and square shouldered button batteries in these lights. We await to see a response. Either a driver PCB change, or a non-recommend for square button cells is needed to put this to rest.:candle:

GL


----------



## shelm

Got Lumens? said:


> square button cells is needed


Eneloops arent square. You mean in its profile view?
the eneloop nub is a perfect cylinder. nothing square about it 
maybe someone wants to post a close-up of the Eneloop and the duracell nubs to show what the exact difference is.


----------



## gbelleh

I've been using my P0 with Eneloops from day one (didn't even know about this problem when I got it). It's still working fine with Eneloops after almost 2 weeks using it every night.

I have no idea if anything is wearing or about to short out, but so far so good.


----------



## IceRat

I got mine today and I really like it. I bought other lights with the focused lens and didn't care for them with the small spot and no spill. This light has such a wide spot that it lights everything. Mine came with a spare o-ring. I think a rubber band from my daughter's braces might work as an o-ring. The magnet, holds the battery in, I have to shake it out. I have been using the same Sony Cycle-energy batteries for a few years and they works great. I love my Preon1 kit I bought when they came out and usually carry it in Preon1 form with the clip. I also carry a Maratac now and then but the battery doesn't last as long as the Preon.

I was wondering if anyone tried reversing the lens to see it it changed the beam? Also will the magnet mess with my cell phone or a thumb drive that might be in the same pocket?

Great light 4Sevens, thanks!


----------



## Burgess

I've also wondered if the magnet will cause confusion
with my electronic devices.


i DO know the magnet will affect my Compass, unless i keep it ~20 cm away.

Quite a shame really, cuz' my P0 is quite Ideal for map-reading ! :thumbsup:


Gotta' love that Low Mode.

:kiss:
_


----------



## Got Lumens?

shelm said:


> Eneloops arent square. You mean in its profile view?
> the eneloop nub is a perfect cylinder. nothing square about it
> maybe someone wants to post a close-up of the Eneloop and the duracell nubs to show what the exact difference is.


Yes Shelm that is what I meant, Thanks. Reworded to shoulder. 
I have videos showing the differance in My Mini-review thread with updated photos, lux values, and some beamshots :thumbsup:
here's a couple low-res photo snapshots from them:



 . 


. . . Click to Enlarge. . . . . . . . Click to Enlarge

I will take some hi res photos later tonight.
GL


----------



## Got Lumens?

shelm said:


> maybe someone wants to post a close-up of the Eneloop and the duracell nubs to show what the exact difference is.


Shelm, something like this?




. . . . . Click to Enlarge
GL


----------



## Got Lumens?

How about some beam shots :devil:



 . 

 . 


. . 10" Free Hand . . . . . . . . . 6" on Stand
. . . . . . . . . . . .. Click to Enlarge

GL


----------



## shelm

Got Lumens? said:


> Shelm, something like this?


Yes, exactly like this! Thanks a million for your efforts, your PO contributions rock!!!

To me, the nubs look the same: positive button tops (nubs!) :shakehead


----------



## kaichu dento

127.0.0.1 said:


> because this is in the gift-light category and no one wants to be gifted a flaky light. like getting coal for christmas...
> 
> almost all similar lights simply -work-
> 
> no one wants to be locked into alkalines because eneloops have more benefits than simply 'being rechargable'


I agree with you on the basis of the fact that the light should just simply work, but if the Eneloop problem was the only issue it would still make for an excellent gift light as most recipients would be likely to use alkalines anyway.


rdrfronty said:


> However the thing about gift giving is that non flashlight people likely never heard of eneloop and would usually use energizer and duracells. But flaky lights certainly would be a poor gift. My light is working flawlessly, but I guess I'm one of the lucky 1/2 of the owners. Guess they are a hit & miss.


Here's hoping for some solid solutions soon, as I'm still without one and waiting for better reliability reports before ordering.


----------



## toylover

Got Lumens? said:


> How about some beam shots :devil:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> 
> . . 10" Free Hand . . . . . . . . . 6" on Stand
> . . . . . . . . . . . .. Click to Enlarge
> 
> GL



How did you do that? Did you just dremmel out the GITD coating? Beam shot for the High setting please.


----------



## someguy4747

Well, I received my second Preon P0. I'm not exactly sure when but I'm guessing it was delivered yesterday. I just checked the mail box today. I got the USPS First Class shipping notification on Thursday so I'm surprised it got here so fast. This is my second light because my first one was DOA. I contacted 4sevens on Monday, 2/6/12. They said they were currently waiting on another batch of lights as the first one was already sold out. They said they would ship the light out to me as soon as the new batch came in. I did not expect a replacement this soon! Now I feel bad because I have not yet sent back my first light. Oh well, I'll ship it tomorrow.

As expected 4sevens took care of the issue and in quite a timely manner in my opinion. I am quite pleased with the light now that I have one that works. The beam profile is unbelievably wide! It is a pretty unique light. It is still light out so I cannot comment on the moonlight mode quite yet. The modes switch fairly reliable for me. I get the mode I expect to get about 75% of the time. I suspect the black foam to be the culprit of this issue. However, I fear I may have broken my last P0 by using an eneloop in it I am not yet willing to try the light without the foam. I did remove the foam on the new light and everything appears to be identical to the previous light. It still appears that there is no room for the wider eneloop contact. It looks like this light will require primaries only. I find this surprising since so many of us use Eneloops exclusively(I do) and I really believe we(CPF) are the base for 4sevens. Anyway, the only noticeable difference between the first and second light is that the second light has a black o-ring instead of the clear one. The new light did include a second o-ring and this o-ring was clear so I guess the color means nothing. 

All things considered I like the light. The size and unique beam are what make the light interesting to me. I think it would be a great gift light but at the moment I question it's reliability. I will have to put it on my personal keychain for a few months before I can consider giving the light as a gift. It is almost too pretty to put on my keychain! Almost...haha


----------



## Streamer

Glad to hear you got your replacement so quick.

You can use Energizer lithium primary. Sold at your local market....... Great runtimes with them.


----------



## Got Lumens?

someguy4747 said:


> Well, I received my second Preon P0. I'm not exactly sure when but I'm guessing it was delivered yesterday. I just checked the mail box today. I got the USPS First Class shipping notification on Thursday so I'm surprised it got here so fast. This is my second light because my first one was DOA. I contacted 4sevens on Monday, 2/6/12. They said they were currently waiting on another batch of lights as the first one was already sold out. They said they would ship the light out to me as soon as the new batch came in. I did not expect a replacement this soon! Now I feel bad because I have not yet sent back my first light. Oh well, I'll ship it tomorrow.
> 
> As expected 4sevens took care of the issue and in quite a timely manner in my opinion. I am quite pleased with the light now that I have one that works. The beam profile is unbelievably wide! It is a pretty unique light. It is still light out so I cannot comment on the moonlight mode quite yet. The modes switch fairly reliable for me. I get the mode I expect to get about 75% of the time. I suspect the black foam to be the culprit of this issue. However, I fear I may have broken my last P0 by using an eneloop in it I am not yet willing to try the light without the foam. I did remove the foam on the new light and everything appears to be identical to the previous light. It still appears that there is no room for the wider eneloop contact. It looks like this light will require primaries only. I find this surprising since so many of us use Eneloops exclusively(I do) and I really believe we(CPF) are the base for 4sevens. Anyway, the only noticeable difference between the first and second light is that the second light has a black o-ring instead of the clear one. The new light did include a second o-ring and this o-ring was clear so I guess the color means nothing.
> 
> All things considered I like the light. The size and unique beam are what make the light interesting to me. I think it would be a great gift light but at the moment I question it's reliability. I will have to put it on my personal keychain for a few months before I can consider giving the light as a gift. It is almost too pretty to put on my keychain! Almost...haha


SomeGuy, Excellent story! I am glad they took care of you in such unexpected fast service :thumbsup:



Streamer said:


> Glad to hear you got your replacement so quick.
> You can use Energizer lithium primary. Sold at your local market....... Great runtimes with them.


Streamer, ++1. I just got some Energizer Lithium AAAs, and they function flawlessly, within the current Preon0 specs.


***--->* *Anyone have some runtimes using the lithium AAAs?
*



toylover said:


> How did you do that? Did you just dremmel out the GITD coating? Beam shot for the High setting please.


Toylover, I did not post any beams of the high mode, because they appear identical. Here is the start link to thread where my posts are describing the modd and lux readings I took. Posts #199, 201, & 203.

GL


----------



## jonnyfgroove

Lithium runtime graph from hiuintahs. :rock:


----------



## Got Lumens?

jonnyfgroove said:


> Lithium runtime graph from hiuintahs. :rock:


Thanks JohnnyGroove


----------



## TheCleanerSD

Got a replacement P0 in this weekend. Had to RMA my original one which gave out after about a week of use. The replacement is one of the "newer" batch models with the black o ring. Apart from that change, there doesn't seem to be much physical difference. I can say that the threads on my new model are noticeably smoother than my original, and I can easily activate and switch modes with one hand. On my original light, nothing short of a very firm two-handed twist would get it to turn on. The difference in feel was enough to surprise me. Not sure if this speaks to improved quality control, or if my original was just a bad apple.


----------



## mrlysle

jonnyfgroove said:


> Lithium runtime graph from hiuintahs. :rock:



If the thing will do over 5 hrs on high with a lithium primary, and specs from 4/7's say 120 hrs on low, based on an alky, anyone care to venture a guess on what kind of runtime you'd get on low with a lithium primary? Since the high runtime more than doubles over rated specs with a lithium, could we safely assume runtime on low would more than double to say, 240 hrs minimum? That's 10 days on low. Pretty respectable from a AAA cell.


----------



## Streamer

mrlysle said:


> If the thing will do over 5 hrs on high with a lithium primary, and specs from 4/7's say 120 hrs on low, based on an alky, anyone care to venture a guess on what kind of runtime you'd get on low with a lithium primary? Since the high runtime more than doubles over rated specs with a lithium, could we safely assume runtime on low would more than double to say, 240 hrs minimum? That's 10 days on low. Pretty respectable from a AAA cell.



If stated runtimes are 1.5 hours on high and 120 hours on low with alkalines, then by direct proportion the primary lithiums (yielding 5 hours on high) would yield 400 hours on low. That would equal *16.6 days*. at @.24 lumens. I hope so.


----------



## mrlysle

Streamer said:


> If stated runtimes are 1.5 hours on high and 120 hours on low with alkalines, then by direct proportion the primary lithiums (yielding 5 hours on high) would yield 400 hours on low. That would equal *16.6 days*. at @.24 lumens. I hope so.



Yea, that would be awesome! Thanks!


----------



## Helmut.G

Streamer said:


> If stated runtimes are 1.5 hours on high and 120 hours on low with alkalines, then by direct proportion the primary lithiums (yielding 5 hours on high) would yield 400 hours on low. That would equal *16.6 days*. at @.24 lumens. I hope so.


Alkaline sucks at medium currents and is nearly unusable at high currents. That's where the big difference comes from.
In moonlight mode, however, the difference will be marginally or alkaline might even be slightly better (at room temperature that is. low temperatures give litium another advantage, alkalines are useless in the cold).


----------



## Burgess

I have performed a Low-mode run-time test, on an Energizer L92 Ultimate Lithium battery.

This battery tested 1.801 volts (no load), and fresh-dated. Room temperature.


Keep in mind -- these results are only for MY sample. Your mileage may vary.


After 5-and-a-half days (132 hours), output had dropped to 50 % brightness.


After 138 hours, output had dropped to 15 %.


At 140 hours, it suddenly went OUT !


Not as long-lasting as your expectations stated above. 



But, of course, still a VERY respectable performance !


I'd be interested to hear what numbers other folks get.

lovecpf



BTW -- at the 50 % brightness level, i judged it *Quite Similar *to my
ZebraLight H51fw, on its lowest setting (Low-Low).

However, the P0 has a *wider* beam, and is TOTALLY flood.


Hope this information is helpful.


Edited to add --

I used my Minolta Auto Flashmeter III for this test.

It's now 30 years old ( ! ) and still serves me well !

_


----------



## Got Lumens?

Burgess said:


> I have performed a Low-mode run-time test, on an Energizer L92 Ultimate Lithium battery.
> This battery tested 1.801 volts (no load), and fresh-dated. Room temperature.
> Keep in mind -- these results are only for MY sample. Your mileage may vary.
> After 5-and-a-half days (132 hours), output had dropped to 50 % brightness.
> After 138 hours, output had dropped to 15 %.
> At 140 hours, it suddenly went OUT !
> Not as long-lasting as your expectations stated above.
> But, of course, still a VERY respectable performance !
> I'd be interested to hear what numbers other folks get.
> 
> lovecpf
> BTW -- at the 50 % brightness level, i judged it *Quite Similar *to my
> ZebraLight H51fw, on its lowest setting (Low-Low).
> However, the P0 has a *wider* beam, and is TOTALLY flood.
> Hope this information is helpful.


Thanks Burgess for your testing :thumbsup:
Was your test measured using a light meter or do you have a HMIS?
Based on your results. I will do a test starting in the AM tommorow using an Energizer L92-FR03(7X) on one of my version 1 samples.
GL


----------



## Streamer

Not as long-lasting as your expectations stated above. :whistle:
_[/QUOTE said:


> Ahh,,but alas. Only in a perfect world where the laws of physics do not apply
> 
> and
> 
> direct proportions abound....


----------



## someguy4747

Great to see the impressive runtimes! But...Anybody else have a tough time coughing up $2 a lithium battery? I use rechargables in all my lights. Guiltless lumens! I'm still using the included Duracell in my P0 as of now but since it seems eneloops will damage the light I'm considering L92's. I just don't know if I can pay $2 a piece!? This is the cheapest I can find them on amazon. I usually always leave home with topped off batteries but I would want to fully deplete a $2 cell before I replaced it. This would cause me to leave home with half empty cells(notice my glass half empty view on the subject). I realize this is not a serious issue as I can afford the batteries and I always have another light, it just kind of messes up my philosophy of use(nutnfancy term!). Are any of you guys thinking the same?


----------



## Got Lumens?

Yes, I am thinking the same. That is the whole reason I want to use Eneloop batteries. With Burgess's results, and probably the same I will get, that leaves just the rechargeables that have a positive button shaped like a duracell. . The Energizers I have cost $2.35 each retail. If the run times do not exceed my expectatins, they are not justified compared to the regular Duracell alakaline. I love the form factor and design of this little P0 light. I'm keeping the two that I have. I am hoping for a revision that will be compatible with eneloops, but will use the standard Duracell or equivelent for many years to come.
GL


----------



## shelm

someguy4747 said:


> Are any of you guys thinking the same?


i am still sitting behind the fence watching.
since this thread and with the energy of several dedicated CPF seniors uncovered clearly which exact design issues should not let be unsolved and since the 4sevens old logo says "we've been listening to you for years", now i really *expect *a "hardware revision" (IT term!) anytime soon:

Preon P0 beta2

Dear 4sevens, plz do _not _disappoint us by *not improving* the current design thx


----------



## selfbuilt

Got Lumens? said:


> The Energizers I have cost $2.35 each retail. If the run times do not exceed my expectatins, they are not justified compared to the regular Duracell alakaline.





Helmut.G said:


> Alkaline sucks at medium currents and is nearly unusable at high currents. That's where the big difference comes from. In moonlight mode, however, the difference will be marginally or alkaline might even be slightly better (at room temperature that is. low temperatures give litium another advantage, alkalines are useless in the cold).


Helmut is quite correct. With a good circuit, you should expect to see a large difference between L92 lithium and alkaline at the reported 25 lumen Hi level, and a small (or negligble) difference at the reported 0.25 lumen Lo level. Good capacity NiMH should be intermediate to the L92 and alkaline at the Hi level, and likely slightly underperform at the Lo.

But the proof is in the pudding, as they say. I am currently doing actual runtime tests on a P0 sample 4Sevens sent me. I should have my preliminary review up by the end of the week, with at least all the Hi mode runs. Lo mode will take a little longer, and likely only be approximate (i.e., I don't intend to tie up my lightbox for weeks at a time ... ).


----------



## mrlysle

Thanks Burgess, for the low mode test. And thanks Eric for your contributions too! Looking forward to your review. With the ever present danger of an alky leak, I really wanted to pop a Eneloop in my PO and be done with it, but I have the same issue as many here do, with IC clearance at the positive cap. So for now, I'll be using L92's. If 4/7's doesn't physically change the driver in these, I might just do the solder mod as well. It is a neat little light, but not enough forethought went into the design.


----------



## Burgess

Got Lumens? said:


> Thanks Burgess for your testing :thumbsup:
> Was your test measured using a light meter or do you have a HMIS?




I used my Minolta Auto Flashmeter III for this test.

It's now 30 years old ( ! ) and still serves me well !

:thumbsup:
_


----------



## craniotes

*Works as advertised...*

FWIW, I just received my Preon Zero last night, and thus far it's perfect: threads are smooth, finish is excellent, one-handed operation is a go, the tint is fine and the GITD treatment works as advertised (you can still find your light hours after the fact, so long as you're in a dark room with adapted eyesight).

I'm not sure that this light will replace either of my SS ReVO's on my keychain, but there's no denying that this is one compact gem of a light. For 90% of what I would use a light like this for, the Preon Zero is pretty much perfect with its wide-angle, zero-artifact beam pattern. Of course, if you're outside and require a bit of throw, well, then this one ain't gonna cut it, but for putzing around the house, in the garage or simply trying to see the path at your feet, this one is hard to beat.

Good job, Foursevens!

Regards,
Adam


----------



## Streamer

[QUOTE mrlysle
If 4/7's doesn't physically change the driver in these, I might just do the solder mod as well. QUOTE]

If you do, use something harder than 40/60 solder. I'm starting to have issues with Eneloops again because the joint is too soft and collapsing after repeated usage. I just may stick with Lithium primarys for now. 

Four 7's, if you get this thing to work with Eneloops, it'll be perfect.


----------



## Got Lumens?

Streamer said:


> If you do, use something harder than 40/60 solder. I'm starting to have issues with Eneloops again because the joint is too soft and collapsing after repeated usage. I just may stick with Lithium primarys for now.
> Four 7's, if you get this thing to work with Eneloops, it'll be perfect.


Streamer brings a good point. If You decide to modd your Preon0 with the soldier, The contact surface needs to only be ~0.5mm high. It is not a permanent solution, just a work around. Caution should be taken to prevent it from being any higher than ~1mm as this can lead to failure with the oring sealing properly while the light is in the off mode. There is only ~1.75mm of head travel from the on position to where the oring becomes ineffective. The easiest option to make the modd last is to include a 26ga(0.4mm)or 24ga(0.5mm) solid wire clipping in the middle of the soldier blob, then it will stop wearing as quickly being copper instead of tin/lead.
GL


----------



## my#1hobby

Streamer said:


> [QUOTE mrlysle
> 
> 
> Four 7's, if you get this thing to work with Eneloops, it'll be perfect.


I agree! I gave my last one away to a friend and now I'm hoping for an updated version to make a second purchase or TWO.


----------



## shelm

shelm said:


> Preon P0 beta2


Does 4sevens ship free samples of the beta2 version for beta testing purposes?

i would like to sign up, want to have a free copy thanks!


----------



## Streamer

Just throwing this out there. Is there any mod that can be done to the anode of the Eneloop? A good filing comes to mind. Or is the anode hollow? Hmmmm..

Answering my own question ...but of course the Eneloop has vent holes....can not change....this is very frustrating.... *4 SEVENS !!! *


----------



## Got Lumens?

Got Lumens? said:


> Shelm, something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . . . . . Click to Enlarge
> GL





Streamer said:


> Just throwing this out there. Is there any mod that can be done to the anode of the Eneloop? A good filing comes to mind. Or is the anode hollow? Hmmmm..
> 
> Answering my own question ...but of course the Eneloop has vent holes....can not change....this is very frustrating.... *4 SEVENS !!! *



Looks like it is stamped and hollow to me, of course I don't have any dead Eneloops to confirm this . . .
GL


----------



## Got Lumens?

Anyone know of a magnet that is 2mm round and 1/2mm in height?
That might work, or it might cause more problems than it is worth :shrug:

Edit: Or maybe we can get Four Sevens to have Eneloop make them a special Preon 0 Battery.


----------



## Streamer

Got Lumens? said:


> Edit: Or maybe we can get Four Sevens to have Eneloop make them a special Preon 0 Battery.


----------



## jorn

Streamer said:


> Just throwing this out there. Is there any mod that can be done to the anode of the Eneloop? A good filing comes to mind. Or is the anode hollow? Hmmmm..
> 
> Answering my own question ...but of course the Eneloop has vent holes....can not change....this is very frustrating.... *4 SEVENS !!! *


You could try to insulate it with something really thin, like cut of 0.5 mm of a thin straw or something and se if it fits snug over the sides of the nipple. Mc-gyver stuff.


----------



## Got Lumens?

jorn said:


> You could try to insulate it with something really thin, like cut of 0.5 mm of a thin straw or something and se if it fits snug over the sides of the nipple. Mc-gyver stuff.


Jorn, 
I don't think that would work. There is physically not enough space for the Eneloop positive contact to fit between the two components on the driver board on several samples of P0's. Do you mean crimping the Eneloops positive contact to smaller diameter than ~3.5mm? :thinking: If so the insulation wouldn't be needed. You could soldier a 2mm long 24ga wire clipping to the Eneloops top :shrug:


----------



## Streamer

WELL, it's the long way around the barn any way you look at it. *4 Sevens needs to re-design the V2 edition OR designate NOT COMPATIBLE WITH RECHARGEABLES (ENELOOPS) ETC.*


----------



## Got Lumens?

Streamer said:


> WELL, it's the long way around the barn any way you look at it. *4 Sevens needs to re-design the V2 edition OR designate NOT COMPATIBLE WITH RECHARGEABLES (ENELOOPS) ETC.*


Without Official comment, 
It is hard to say whether it was the architect who designed the barn to be too small, 
or whether the builder substituted/deviated from the blueprints plans that has caused 
the larger tractor to stick out past the doors by 2". 
Either way the farmers larger tractor he wanted to keep in it does not fit.
And the Farmer can only keep his smaller tractor in there without modifiying something


----------



## Streamer

lol....THAT's why they put "height" signs on overpasses....so the 18 wheeler doesn't peel his cab top off like a sardine can. 4 7's out of respect should "sign" the same. Advertise it. Up front. "rant off"


----------



## Got Lumens?

Streamer said:


> lol....THAT's why they put "height" signs on overpasses....so the 18 wheeler doesn't peel his cab top off like a sardine can. 4 7's out of respect should "sign" the same. Advertise it. Up front. "rant off"



Agreed. 


Got Lumens? said:


> I am sure that Four Sevens is aware that some folks like and want to use Eneloop and square shouldered button batteries in these lights. We await to see a response. Either a driver PCB change, or a non-recommend for square shouldered button cells is needed to put this to rest.:candle:
> 
> GL


----------



## ama230

To those who can relate on certain issues with the light.
*
First and main issue resolved:*

I have put solder on the positive contact ( Approx 1mm ) on the PCB and it works great. I use only lead free stuff. This had fixed it permanently. I had also taken out the pill just to clean and re-torqued with blunt tip tweezers. This is to ensure a proper conductive path. 

*Second Issue, works but is going to fail again soon:*

The o-ring has lasted me a few weeks and worked great. Then the other day I went to use it to do normal stuff at night and the head was tighter than normal. I also put good o-ring grease and make sure there are no sharp edges. The light came milled nice and its not the cause of the problem. Then when I went to take off the head the o-ring had seized to the head of the light and held in place when I unscrewed the head off. You can imagine what happened next. It chewed through the o-ring and now its gone. 

I have looked at the DGQ II light as most on here say they are very similar in build and specs. So I went on CNYqualitygoods and got a set of the o-rings as I know they need to be at least a 12mm ID and 1mm thick in order to work properly. So I hope that these work and if they do I will send a few to those who are close as they are going to take three weeks with shipping from china.

Then today I was calling around to find a local place, perhaps to find a hobby shop or hardware store that would have a decent selection of o-rings. Napa was the best deal as the rest of the places you would think of (I mean ALL of them ) didn't have anything that was quality. I ended up getting a half dozen of 1/16" thick o-ring that had an ID of 5/16" and it was hell to get it to stretch. The rest of the companies have ones that are non elastic and pliable. It had fit and was still too thick, so I took my Leatherman Style CS, since I am inpatient and proceeded to ruin the first o-ring by cutting too thin and snap!. Then the second time I had got it just this enough and smooth, then I had rolled the o-ring over to have the rolled edge facing outward and it had fit. I need a softer material, like the one it came with but just and internet search is not coming up with much as most I know in here are still looking. I was not going to put thread tape on it and it needs to be water proof for an EDC light.

If there are any that could list some solutions as well as suppliers that would sell o-rings that are the same size or specs needed. It would be very much appreciated as my o-ring is going to do what the original did and need ready to go back-ups. Mine works but is tighter than heck. 

*Then there is a third problem but can deal with it:*

I just noticed this the other day when I was looking at the gitd feature. The optic/lens has spider cracks in it and is all over the lens. It does not hurt performance or hurt the beautiful beam but is noticeable in close observation at an angle on low or from the glow of the gitd film. I would like to find a replacement or other options. Please help me, if not I can deal with it as Its going to get replaced once another failure comes up. They are going to take the light as I have not modified it at all and damage was due to no disclaimer. 

Thanks for reading my post and hope to hear on some of the remedies.
Eric


----------



## Got Lumens?

ama230 said:


> To those who can relate on certain issues with the light.
> *Second Issue, works but is going to fail again soon:*
> The o-ring has lasted me a few weeks and worked great. Eric


Have you tried an orthodontist? When I had braces many many many moons ago, there were at least 12 different sizes of rubber orings you mention. 

Four Sevens has switched the original design of the oring for a better one. Have You tried calling them for the new updated oring?
GL


----------



## jorn

Got Lumens? said:


> Jorn,
> I don't think that would work. There is physically not enough space for the Eneloop positive contact to fit between the two components on the driver board on several samples of P0's. Do you mean crimping the Eneloops positive contact to smaller diameter than ~3.5mm? :thinking: If so the insulation wouldn't be needed. You could soldier a 2mm long 24ga wire clipping to the Eneloops top :shrug:


It works. Mine crapped out yesterday. Fixed with a straw condom  I just dont know how long it will work. The suggestion was for a fix if yours already is shorted.. Many p0's have the problem that the eneloop nipple fits. But when you start to use it alot, the nipple can eat its way trough the side of the ic and short out. (I think those vent holes might act like a metal cutter the when the battery rotates.) The battery wobbles slightly sideways and slowly eat's the sides of the ic's until it shorts out. The solder blob is a more permanent fix.


----------



## selfbuilt

My review is now up:

Foursevens Preon P0 (XP-E, 1xAAA, SS, "Flood") Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more! 

Hi mode runtimes are all done, on all battery types. Still working on the Lo mode runtimes, but you'll be able to see a short-term comparison of the output levels and regulation at this level.

:wave:


----------



## mrlysle

Great job as usual on the review sir! The L92 runtimes are pretty good methinks! I'm anxious to see what the low mode times are on L92's. Thanks for another great review!


----------



## Got Lumens?

Testing . . . 57 hrs and counting Energizer L92 :thumbsup:


----------



## Burgess




----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Nice!


----------



## Myfka

bugout said:


> Mine is working great. The magnet is really handy.



What knife is it?


----------



## shelm

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Nice!


----------



## Nonprophet

I'm using mine with eneloops--no problems at all! I ordered mine 1/25 or so and just got it a few days ago. I don't know if mine is an "updated" one or not. Great little light......!!! NP


----------



## Nonprophet

Just to clarify, is 47's saying that using an eneloop in the P0 will void the warranty? I see where they warn against using li-ion cells that are too high in voltage, but I don't see any warnings about using eneloops..... NP


----------



## ProjeKtWEREWOLF

I am impressed with the form factor and the magnetic rear. I'll grab one as soon as I can find one in the UK


----------



## Got Lumens?

ProjeKtWEREWOLF said:


> I am impressed with the form factor and the magnetic rear. I'll grab one as soon as I can find one in the UK


:welcome:
Why not order direct, free shipping???
GL


----------



## MY

Streamer said:


> WELL, it's the long way around the barn any way you look at it. *4 Sevens needs to re-design the V2 edition OR designate NOT COMPATIBLE WITH RECHARGEABLES (ENELOOPS) ETC.*



My two PO examples have always worked fine with eneloops. A friend also has two and it appears that the inside diameter opening of the foam washer is too small to make contact. However, once the foam opening is enlarged through repeated use, contact is made and operation is normal. Based on my limited sample of 4, I do not think that these broad statements of incompatability may be accurate. 

Regards.


----------



## Streamer

MY said:


> My two PO examples have always worked fine with eneloops. A friend also has two and it appears that the inside diameter opening of the foam washer is too small to make contact. However, once the foam opening is enlarged through repeated use, contact is made and operation is normal. Based on my limited sample of 4, I do not think that these broad statements of incompatability may be accurate.
> 
> Regards.




Yes, based on your limited sample of 4, I can agree....but there are thousands in circulation. Proof of the potential problem has already been reported by GL and Selfbuilt. Broad Statement? i don't think so. Just an alert is all it is.


----------



## JulianP

My understanding is that the original batch had a white foam washer, and the revised batch has a black foam washer of different dimension, probably a smaller hole to prevent the battery nipple touching the IC. Mine is black, and I had no problems with it. Is this right?


----------



## Got Lumens?

JulianP said:


> My understanding is that the original batch had a white foam washer, and the revised batch has a black foam washer of different dimension, probably a smaller hole to prevent the battery nipple touching the IC. Mine is black, and I had no problems with it. Is this right?


My two first batch P0s have Black foam with a small hole.
GL


----------



## chris975d

JulianP said:


> My understanding is that the original batch had a white foam washer, and the revised batch has a black foam washer of different dimension, probably a smaller hole to prevent the battery nipple touching the IC. Mine is black, and I had no problems with it. Is this right?



I think the black/white thing is to do with the o-ring for the head. The original batch of P0's have a white/clear o-ring, and from what I've heard, the second wave has a black o-ring. Both of my original batch P0s have black foam washers/donuts, and white o-rings.


----------



## bugout

Myfka said:


> What knife is it?


A Boker Keycom.


----------



## Woods Walker

And this is why I don't pre order anything. Best to hear what people at CPF have to say first. I will hold off and see if the Eneloop issues etc are fixed before purchase.


----------



## shelm

Woods Walker said:


> Best to hear what people at CPF have to say first.


best attitude

why cant everybody follow this example


----------



## cave dave

shelm said:


> best attitude
> 
> why cant everybody follow this example



If everybody followed that example we wouldn't have anything to read on CPF. So, thanks for the early adopters!


----------



## 127.0.0.1

dag nabbit I want one so bad I want to get 6 of them so bad but cannot due the the PCB issue

and now 47's has to fight a lawsuit from ******** so I really hope nothing damages 47's and
screws up the ability to perfect the P0-SS (too much p-o-s in there, they should rename it) anyway
I have a Ti Quark 123 and a Ti Quark Mini 123 and love them. I realllllly need 6 P0 as gift lights
but I cannot make the jump. everyone I know uses eneloops.


----------



## thebeans

I got my P0 about a week ago and so far so good.  I don't have any Enloops so no issues there. Switching is a bit flaky sometimes but has gotten progressively better. I love the size, finish and look of the light. One question though. Mine has a black O ring installed (which is the later revision I think) but there was also a plastic bag in the box with a small clear O ring and another of the same small clear O ring inside the battery tube at the bottom. :thinking: I found it when I was cleaning the inside to see if it would help with the flaky switching. The two clear O rings are very small, maybe 5-6 mm in diameter. I guess they will stretch if they are indeed spares for the battery tube. 

I just thought it a bit strange that there was an extra spare in the battery tube and that they didn't match the one installed. Anybody else have an extra spare or a spare different than the installed one?

Thanks.


----------



## kaichu dento

cave dave said:


> If everybody followed that example we wouldn't have anything to read on CPF. So, thanks for the early adopters!


+1

Absolutely appreciative of the early buyers and like it when I feel strongly enough about a particular product to be one of them.


127.0.0.1 said:


> dag nabbit I want one so bad I want to get 6 of them so bad but cannot due the the PCB issue
> 
> ...(too much p-o-s in there, they should rename it)...


Me too! 

I know we're not the only ones who went




when we saw the name for this one!


----------



## pblanch

What, a lawsuit that someone couldn't use eneloops in a $25 light. What is the world coming too.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

pblanch said:


> What, a lawsuit that someone couldn't use eneloops in a $25 light. What is the world coming too.



Lmao, no man, see marketplace for details. Lets stay on topic.


----------



## scout24

Got mine on Friday, TINY!!! Nice white tint, beautiful beam... Ceiling bounce on low stuck to the top of my refrigerator door is a good nightlight. High lights up a good sized room. A keeper!


----------



## run4jc

Got mine Saturday. Love it - this is a home run for 4Sevens IMHO - eneloops or no. Considering the battery life (expected), what's an alkaline among friends? 

Measured it in my sphere this morning (home made - my "no claims of accuracy" disclaimer hereby posted) - .71 lumen on low and, wait for it, 25.8 on high! 

LOVE the texture - easy for my big hand to twist "one handed". LOVE the smooth threads, and I haven't lubed them or anything. LOVE the magnet in the tail - battery jumps into the tube, and the light easily sticks to metal for 'no handed' use.

Would I like one in Ti? SURE. But I like it enough the way it is that I just ordered 2 more. IMHO this, the Fenix E01, and the Thrunite Ti Firefly are 'budget lights' that should be on everyone's short list.

Just sayin'... :thumbsup:


----------



## Streamer

pblanch said:


> What, a lawsuit that someone couldn't use eneloops in a $25 light. What is the world coming too.



_*Yes...must use eneloops in my $25 light...I must, but I cannot....I must...bic.. im.. bic.......
*




_


----------



## Got Lumens?

Streamer said:


> _*Yes...must use eneloops in my $25 light...I must, but I cannot....I must...bic.. im.. bic.......
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


:lolsign:LMAO


----------



## tbenedict

I'm waiting in the Eneloop issue as well. I've had way too many alkaline leaks to trust them.....and I have too many lights to check weekly.


----------



## jorn

Are there any indications that 4sevens might fix the eneloop issue? I havent seen one. Do we know the actual rma % with the p0? There might be too few (but loud) rma's to really bother with the issue. Remember he sold out really quick after release, and i havent really seen that many pepole reporting about lemons. You will always find lemons in this pricerange, but it's rarely with warranty like the p0 got. It's priced like a semi cheap p60 module, and seems to work fine with different ni-mh for many pepole. Who knows, you guys might be waiting for a fantasy unicorn:shrug:


----------



## Streamer

Add to that, that many of the purchasers may not have tried eneloops yet or don't intend to and therefore remain unaware. I'd venture to say it's a small percentage that use rechargeables anyways. 

I don't know the RMA %ages either but,, in the meantime, I'd like to *****.  

I'll gladly order another P0, IF 4-7's would agree to take it out of the box and confirm that the Eneloop did indeed function properly in it BEFORE shipping.


----------



## LGT

I ordered mine 2-12, and have been using for about four days. Performs the same with alkaline or enloop battery. Rarely, but sometimes, there is a little flicker while changing modes, regardless of which battery. But overall I like this light.


----------



## CheepSteal

Received my RMA new Preon today and noticed dodgy operation once again with the new one. I removed the foam ring this time and covered the PCB in an epoxy-like glue but made sure the contact nub was uncovered. It seems to work very well now! I don't think I'll try eneloops though, the nipple seems to be wide enough that it might cause a short, which I think is what happened on my other one (it started heating up like mad and only working on moonlight, even after going back to alkalines).


----------



## JulianP

CheepSteal said:


> covered the PCB in an epoxy-like glue



Oops, there goes your 10yr warranty...I must confess, I would do the same if I had a problem with my P0. In fact, would it be that hard for 4/7s to do it in the first place?


----------



## CheepSteal

JulianP said:


> Oops, there goes your 10yr warranty...I must confess, I would do the same if I had a problem with my P0. In fact, would it be that hard for 4/7s to do it in the first place?


Lol, yeah, but I figured that I'd rather void it and make it work rather than keep sending it back and forth to USA and be without a light 2 or more weeks at a time.


----------



## budynabuick

With the almost cult like following of eneloop, what I find amazing is that everybody did not send ALL of these lights back and tell them to make it eneloop compatible or .....REFUND. Was this lack of eneloope compatibility posted in the promotional specs? Could someone explain? If the answer is in the thread I missed it. Thanks.
Keith


----------



## Houdiny

Today I received another two samples of the P0, both of them working flawlessly. To me, the quality control on the second batch of these lights seems to be enhanced.
Is anyone else having troubles with a light from the second batch? If not, I fully recommend getting one of these little gems (in fact, I recommend getting this light either way, because even IF there's a problem with your light, FOURSEVENS' superb customer service is gonna take care of that, like they did with me.).


----------



## Flying Turtle

Houdiny said:


> Is anyone else having troubles with a light from the second batch? If not, I fully recommend getting one of these little gems (in fact, I recommend getting this light either way, because even IF there's a problem with your light, FOURSEVENS' superb customer service is gonna take care of that, like they did with me.).



I agree. If there's still some concern about Eneloops, use a regular NiMH and be happy. Most of us have plenty of those laying around. 

Geoff


----------



## jorn

I usually dont care about warranty. Shipping is expensive, and im not sure what cost's more. Pay for shipping back to usa, or just buy a new P0. Anyway, i LIKE to fiddle with my lights, so if something breaks, i smile and blow the dust of the soldering iron. 
Im trying to run the p0 out of juice now with a ni-mh. 58 hours so far. Started with the liteflux lf2xt, univex aaa and P0 side by side. Yesterday my liteflux lf2xt went black, today the univex aaa went out of juice when i was at work. The P0 is still going strong. Hi mode still works with a steady output, so i guess there is quite some juice left on the tenergy aaa. Will keep it running. Definetly my new aaa "runtime king".


----------



## Kilovolt

Received mine today and it works quite well. Boys this light is SMALL!! 

I hate the magnet though, it keeps getting stuck to things. Has anybody possibly by chance found a safe way to remove it? :thinking:


----------



## Ishango

I received my P0 last friday. I carried it with me all weekend and to my work yesterday. I really like this little light and have seen no flaws whatsoever on mine. I haven't tried using an eneloop yet and will probably do that once my huge collection of alkaline AAA batteries run out.


----------



## jorn

Kilovolt said:


> Received mine today and it works quite well. Boys this light is SMALL!!
> 
> I hate the magnet though, it keeps getting stuck to things. Has anybody possibly by chance found a safe way to remove it? :thinking:


You dont need to remove it, heat will kill magnets. Used a lighter on mine, and the magnet is now completly dead. Keep it in the blue part of the lighter flame so it won't soot and turn your P0 black


----------



## Burgess

Regarding the aforementioned* Lawsuit*, involving this flashlight:




PoliceScannerMan said:


> . . . . see marketplace for details.




I am unable to find ANYTHING about it in the MarketPlace !


What am i missing here ? ? ?

:huh2:


Kindly direct me to this information, if it's still visible.


:thanks:
_


----------



## Viper715

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...e-files-lawsuits-claiming-patent-infringement


----------



## JulianP

Burgess said:


> Regarding the aforementioned* Lawsuit*, involving this flashlight:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am unable to find ANYTHING about it in the MarketPlace !
> 
> 
> What am i missing here ? ? ?
> 
> :huh2:
> 
> 
> Kindly direct me to this information, if it's still visible.
> 
> 
> :thanks:
> _



In that thread, they suggest you click on this link:
http://www.rfcexpress.com/search.asp
Then you enter "Surefire" in the "Party Name" text field. This will reveal all the manufacturers identified in the lawsuit.


----------



## Burgess

Thank you for the link, Viper !


----------



## MCN

Just to be clear, the two separate examples I had with bad switching were tested only with the supplied alkaline cell, not Eneloops or anything else.


----------



## Got Lumens?

P0 Runtime on low 182hrs! 
Energizer L92 Lithium AAA 7X cell
GL


----------



## Streamer

Not bad at all. *7.58 DAYS*


----------



## shelm

Streamer said:


> Not bad at all. *7.58 DAYS*


hey guys, please dont forget to post your runtime tests in the cpfmp thread 

*4Sevens Flashlight Run Time Testimonials - real world testing!*


----------



## jorn

> P0 Runtime on low 182hrs!


Wow, thats a solid runtime. Mine is still running on a tenergy ni-mh. Been running for 4 days straight soon, and still no sign of struggle in lo mode. A quick jump to a dimmer than normal high mode, is telling me that the battery is starting to chew on it's last reserves. Don't know how mutch longer it will last. Im aleredy really impressed, but hoping it can survive another night (or 2)


----------



## jorn

Got 104 hours runtime on my tenergy Ni-mh before it died out. 4.3 days.


----------



## Streamer

Database errorThe CandlePowerForums database has encountered a problem.Please try the following: 

Load the page again by clicking the Refresh button in your web browser.
Open the www.candlepowerforums.com home page, then try to open another page.
Click the Back button to try another link.
The www.candlepowerforums.com forum technical staff have been notified of the error, though you may contact them if the problem persists. 
We apologise for any inconvenience.


----------



## Got Lumens?

Streamer said:


> Database error
> The CandlePowerForums database has encountered a problem.
> FIXED.


Fixed


----------



## Streamer

Got Lumens? said:


> Fixed



LOL...even the forum has problems with its "batteries" sometimes..


----------



## 1anrm

Awww... no longer turns on reliably. Sheash. going to contact support. am back to using my E05 as my AAA light. I used duraloops.


----------



## Kilovolt

Also mine has started acting funnily from time to time but support is definitely too far away for me ....


----------



## Streamer

Kilovolt said:


> Also mine has started acting funnily from time to time but support is definitely too far away for me ....



what sort of problem is it having? Have you tried tightening the pill? What battery are you using?


----------



## Kilovolt

Streamer said:


> what sort of problem is it having? Have you tried tightening the pill? What battery are you using?




The problem is uncertain mode changing (I am not sure if you can talk of 'mode skipping' in a two mode light), the pill seems to be tight and I am using Energizer 1000 mAh NiMH cells with a narrow and well protruding positive button. As I said it happens only occasionally.


----------



## Got Lumens?

Kilovolt,
What type of lube are you using on the flashlight threads?
Have you checked the bottom of your cell for a ridgeline scratch made from the batterytube that can cause this?
If you have tried, what type of cleaner have you used on all of the connection points?
I am assuming you have more than one Energizer NiMh, does this happen with using all the different cells?
Your description and useage sounds like a dirty connection point somewhere.
GL


----------



## Kilovolt

Normally I use silicone grease but in this case the o-ring was sufficiently lubed so I did not do anything. The bottom of my 8 cells appears to be in its original state and the misbehavior happens with different ones. I have only cleaned the contacts with rubbing alcohol without touching the o-ring.

I agree that the problem seems due to a bad contact, I will probably have to take away the o-ring and clean everything again. Pity there are no spare o-rings.


----------



## JulianP

Well, my Preon P0 nearly made it to three weeks. Now it is beginning to malfunction. The light alternates from low mode, to off, to high mode or to going out and becoming really hot. The latter is clearly an internal short. On inspection the foam ring looks the same, and there is no obvious sign of oxidation on contact surfaces. :shakehead 

I don't particularly want to waste more money and time on postage, as my money is better spent elsewhere. 4/7s, I can only say I am disappointed. I had Ultrafire and FandyFire last longer, while the Preon P0 tries to start a real fire.

My ITP EOS A3 has already arrived. A Klarus M-IX6 and a Thrunite Ti are on their way.


----------



## Streamer

Kilovolt said:


> The bottom of my 8 cells appears to be in its original state and the misbehavior happens with different ones. I agree that the problem seems due to a bad contact, .



If thes 8 NIMH cells are all you have tried, I would try a regular Alkaline battery such as Duracell, Energizer, etc. 

All NIMH cells have the larger anode contacts. I have same trouble as you with NIMH cells, but alkalines function perfectly due to smallest anode contacts.


----------



## Streamer

Kilovolt said:


> I am using Energizer 1000 mAh NiMH cells with a narrow and well protruding positive button.



It may be one of the narrower NIMH's out there but in SelfBuilts review (see list below) he lists widths of anodes in NIMH and ALkalines. Alkalines have the narrowest. Try one, it may cure your problem.

Alkaline:
Duracell AAA: 3.17mm
Eveready AAA: 3.34mm
GP AA: 3.27mm

Lithium: 
Energizer L92 AAA: 3.48mm

NiMH:
Eneloop AAA (early generations): 3.73mm
Eneloop AAA (recent purchases): 3.79mm
Energizer high-capacity AAA: 3.52mm
Duracell high-capacity AAA (non-Eneloop): 3.67mm
Generic high-capacity AAA: 3.67mm

NiMH cells typically have wider anodes than primary alkaline and lithium cells – and Sanyo Eneloop cells particularly so.


----------



## Kilovolt

Streamer said:


> It may be one of the narrower NIMH's out there but in SelfBuilts review (see list below) he lists widths of anodes in NIMH and ALkalines. Alkalines have the narrowest. Try one, it may cure your problem.
> 
> ........




Will do, thanks.


----------



## tickled

I was very interested in this as a floodier mini companion to my E05 but not working with Eneloops is a deal breaker for me. Maybe version 1.1...


----------



## Streamer

tickled said:


> I was very interested in this as a floodier mini companion to my E05 but not working with Eneloops is a deal breaker for me. Maybe version 1.1...



It seems that not all are affected. No real info out yet. And don't know if 4 7's will comment or not.. Business as usual.

SelfBuilt commented on it. I even suggested to another reviewer to check it out..fell on deaf ears...guess he wanted no part of it.


----------



## henry1960

Deal Breaker For Me TOO...


----------



## budynabuick

tickled said:


> I was very interested in this as a floodier mini companion to my E05 but not working with Eneloops is a deal breaker for me. Maybe version 1.1...



I find it amazing that a company would release a light that will not receive the pos end of NIMH!



It"s baffling that 4-7"s has not spoken (that I know of) on this issue. I was interested in one of these lights. That is the good thing about a thread like this as 4-7"s will surely see it and hopefully correct this problem and THEN fancy up their web design/packaging. Tickled, if you are looking for flood, I highly recommend the Klarus MIX6.

Keith


----------



## Got Lumens?

Streamer said:


> It may be one of the narrower NIMH's out there but in SelfBuilts review he lists widths of anodes in NIMH and ALkalines. Alkalines have the narrowest. Try one, it may cure your problem.





Kilovolt said:


> Will do, thanks.


Kilovolt,
Here's the photos that confirm the P0's annode troubles. Selfbuilt measured 3.52mm for the Energizer NiMh's annodes. In my two samples of P0's, the distance between the two IC chips was only ~3.42mm. The Eneloops worked on the sample below, wore away part of the IC chip due to the fact that the battery was actually getting pushed off center to make the contact with the driver. This is from about 1 hours worth of use, and I have since reverted to smaller annoded batteries.
There have also been many more reports of the IC's getting shorted out using the larger annoded batteries since I documented these photo's. Was it by design, or was it by manufacture defect, that larger annoded batteries do not work in all P0's? A little insight and battery reccomendations would go along way here Four Sevens. 

Just a friendly reminder, not all customers buy and use Duracell batteries. The P0 is marketed as a "AAA" single cell light. Why is it that not all "AAA" batteries can be used? There are international standards for a battery's size to qualify and be sold as a "AAA" battery. Any "AAA" sized battery should work in this "AAA" marketed light. 

IMO, I think it would be a better business decision to change the marketing of this light to exclude "rechargeable" AAA battieries. I beleive it would be more cost effective, less disatisfaction, less RMAs, and _Most Importantly_, a better Image and start with one of the *First* Newly Branded models that 4 Sevens spent a ton of money, time, and research developing Four Sevens new branding. 
If a fix is designed and manufactured, this could be marketed as the "_New_" P0, now compatible with rechargeables. 

GL



 .


----------



## Tolip

Ordered one this morning. 
I'm using L92s almost exclusively, though.


----------



## Got Lumens?

Got Lumens? said:


> P0 Runtime on low 182hrs!
> Energizer L92 Lithium AAA 7X cell
> GL





Tolip said:


> Ordered one this morning.
> I'm using L92s almost exclusively, though.


:thumbsup: The L92 performance in my two has been excellent.
GL


----------



## Streamer

*PICTURE OF THE YEAR !
*
*"Houston...We Have A Problem...."
*


----------



## Kilovolt

OK I changed over to an L92, we'll see how the light behaves.


----------



## JulianP

I have just done an autopsy to my Preon P0 pill and found the problem. The battery button causes wear and tear to one of the ICs until it makes contact with one of the internal parts, causing a short circuit. I used a Sony Cycle Energy rechargeable, which is indistinguishable from a duracell alkaline. The size and buttons are similar. 

So, I'm sorry to report, it will be only a matter of time before most people's Preon P0 goes. It just needs to be turned on and off a few times per day to wear the plastic off the IC.

Here is the image of the pill. I covered the exposed metal with superglue and I hope it will fix the problem for a few weeks.






I think the lesson for a manufacturer is to test the prototype for a few weeks before selling it.


----------



## Got Lumens?

JulianP said:


> I have just done an autopsy to my Preon P0 pill and found the problem. The battery button causes wear and tear to one of the ICs until it makes contact with one of the internal parts, causing a short circuit. I used a Sony Cycle Energy rechargeable, which is indistinguishable from a duracell alkaline. The size and buttons are similar.
> 
> So, I'm sorry to report, it will be only a matter of time before most people's Preon P0 goes. It just needs to be turned on and off a few times per day to wear the plastic off the IC.
> 
> Here is the image of the pill. I covered the exposed metal with superglue and I hope it will fix the problem for a few weeks.


Julian,
This post#552 describes a fix that may work longer than super glue or adding a plastic battery annode insulator(straw, heat shrink, battery condom).

Could you post a closeup head to head picture of a Duracell and your Sony Cycle Energy rechargeable annodes? All I have are Eneloops at the moment. My second sample which has only used a Duracell has rub marks. It is sounding like it is a matter of a few hundreths of a mm that is causing these troubles.

GL


----------



## jorn

JulianP said:


> So, I'm sorry to report, it will be only a matter of time before most people's Preon P0 goes. It just needs to be turned on and off a few times per day to wear the plastic off the IC.


How do you know that most pepole will ruin theirs? Mine ate one of the ic's. Moved one ic ~0,1 mm with a solder iron, and it's back to normal. The nipple on my ni-mh's cant reach the ic's now, batterytube prevents it for toutching the ic. It's all about microscopic tolerances. If your battery got a wide nipple with venting holes, it can eat faster, kind of like a metal drill when the battery is turning with the tube.


----------



## JulianP

Got Lumens? said:


> Julian,
> This post#552 describes a fix that may work longer than super glue or adding a plastic battery annode insulator(straw, heat shrink, battery condom).
> 
> Could you post a closeup head to head picture of a Duracell and your Sony Cycle Energy rechargeable annodes? All I have are Eneloops at the moment. My second sample which has only used a Duracell has rub marks. It is sounding like it is a matter of a few hundreths of a mm that is causing these troubles.
> 
> GL



Hi GL,
I just tried the solder blob fix, and the P0 doesn't work anymore. Maybe I overheated it, or perhaps I had already blown the IC. It reminded me of my troubles years ago when I spent hours trying to fix a $13 DX AAA flashlight. If I were to charge myself at my professional rates, that flashlight would have cost me $450. So I promised myself I would never do it again, and just stick with high quality manufacturers. 

I have now gone down the same path with the Preon P0, and I am still kicking myself like a compulsive gambler who has just lost his paypacket yet again. Perhaps the Sony Recycle Energy is a few hundreds of a mm bigger, I can't see it. I could use a micrometer or some other instrument, but now I'm in a bad mood and I'm going to put the whole thing in the bin (knowing my sickness, I'll probably retrieve it tomorrow and have another try).


----------



## Got Lumens?

JulianP said:


> Hi GL,
> I just tried the solder blob fix, and the P0 doesn't work anymore. Maybe I overheated it, or perhaps I had already blown the IC. It reminded me of my troubles years ago when I spent hours trying to fix a $13 DX AAA flashlight. If I were to charge myself at my professional rates, that flashlight would have cost me $450. So I promised myself I would never do it again, and just stick with high quality manufacturers.
> 
> I have now gone down the same path with the Preon P0, and I am still kicking myself like a compulsive gambler who has just lost his paypacket yet again. Perhaps the Sony Recycle Energy is a few hundreds of a mm bigger, I can't see it. I could use a micrometer or some other instrument, but now I'm in a bad mood and I'm going to put the whole thing in the bin (knowing my sickness, I'll probably retrieve it tomorrow and have another try).


Julian,
Sorry to hear it was a no go. I would agree with you, come back to it later. Let us know.


jorn said:


> Mine ate one of the ic's. Moved one ic ~0,1 mm with a solder iron, and it's back to normal. The nipple on my ni-mh's cant reach the ic's now, batterytube prevents it for toutching the ic. It's all about microscopic tolerances.


Jorn,
Thank you for sharing your inginuity. That totals up to three different fixes now :thumbsup:
GL


----------



## selfbuilt

JulianP said:


> I used a Sony Cycle Energy rechargeable, which is indistinguishable from a duracell alkaline. The size and buttons are similar.


Are you sure about that? I have tested AA-sized Sony Cycle Energy LSD rechargeables, and found them to be identical to Sanyo Eneloop AAs in every regard. Don't know about the non-LSD Sony's, but all the brands of AAA-size NiMH I have tested have much wider (and more evenly cylindrical) anodes than alkalines.

Numbers are quote above and in my P0 review, but all my eneloop-style AAAs are a good ~0.6mm wider than my duracell alkaline, and all other NiMH AAA were 0.35-0.5mm wider.

Note those measurements are taken at the base of the anode - the duracells are a lot more conical shaped, so are even less likely to contact the the circuit elements.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

the fix would be right here.

just spec small chips. IC's with legs is sooooo Y2K


----------



## jorn

0,5cm x 2 = 1 cm. aaa = 1cm. No room for nipple at all if 2 of those magic ic's were put on the backside of the board.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

jorn said:


> 0,5cm x 2 = 1 cm. aaa = 1cm. No room for nipple at all if 2 of those magic ic's were put on the backside of the board.



that is just an example of a flat package. the actual part only has 6 leads and would be even smaller
and it is not the sizexsize that matters, it is the thickness or height.


----------



## jorn

Thickness/height is no issue,. It's the spacing between the ic's that makes problem. If the nipple is to wide, it wont fit between the ic's.


----------



## Tommygun45

This thread is entertaining. 4Sevens seriously owes you guys. I was just looking for a cheap car light and was looking at the p0, but after reading how you guys have now figured out 3 different ways to 'fix' your broken p0s I think that is a bad sign. Time to issue a fix/recall 4sevens.


----------



## jorn

He has to pry mine out of my dead hands  
I have given mine too mutch bling and love by now to even think about rma. You won't find a similar sized aaa light anywhere. And you wont find a smooth flood aaa light like this. It's a cheap little thing, and i dont mind fixing it. No one makes a scene if their 20$ drop in module says poof. When it works, its the best keychain light out there, so i enjoy making it work. Would i buy another one if mine went "poof beyond repair" ? yes, no doubt.


----------



## tickled

Good money is good money. I don't accept the above argument that nothing is wrong with the product as long as I don't use it in a certain way. I'm not talking about dropping it out of an airplane at altitude and expecting it to work afterwards. I just want to be able to use the most widely available/used AAA rechargeable battery in the world without having to worry about destroying it. It's a borderline design flaw IMO.


budynabuick said:


> I find it amazing that a company would release a light that will not receive the pos end of NIMH!
> 
> 
> 
> It"s baffling that 4-7"s has not spoken (that I know of) on this issue. I was interested in one of these lights. That is the good thing about a thread like this as 4-7"s will surely see it and hopefully correct this problem and THEN fancy up their web design/packaging. Tickled, if you are looking for flood, I highly recommend the Klarus MIX6. Keith


 I'd seen the MiX6 before but I'm not convinced that it'd be different enough from the LD01 SS I already have to justify the added expense. The lack of tailstanding and having strobe in the mode cycle bug me too.


----------



## Streamer

Tommygun45 said:


> This thread is entertaining. 4Sevens seriously owes you guys. I was just looking for a cheap car light and was looking at the p0, but after reading how you guys have now figured out 3 different ways to 'fix' your broken p0s I think that is a bad sign. Time to issue a fix/recall 4sevens.



I definitely think that just a handfull of us here are expressing our NIMH requirements and that we represent a "minority" in the problems thus far experienced. 

I'm willing to bet the "majority" of P0 purchasers are running the included Duracell battery in their units and are experiencing no problems whatsoever. 

I'm a proponent of NIMH Eneloops and have experienced the dreaded contact problems but luckily no "pooff". I was able to temporarily fix the issue by blob soldering ....but the problem resurfaced (pun intended)...so NOW, I use alkalines with the narrow nipples and it runs perfect.


----------



## Got Lumens?

jorn said:


> 0,5cm x 2 = 1 cm. aaa = 1cm. No room for nipple at all if 2 of those magic ic's were put on the backside of the board.





127.0.0.1 said:


> the fix would be right here. just spec small chips. IC's with legs is sooooo Y2K



I agree with your point 127.0.0.1,
The picture posted is of an IC with 29 contact points. The IC in the Preon0 is a 6 leaded IC that measures 1.75mm W. X 3mm L. X 0.5mm H(minus the legs). That would mean that if the same style of technology as the picture that was posted is used to build the IC's for the Proen0 they would only measure approximately ~0.9mm W. X ~2mm L. X 0.35mm H. Since it has no legs that would leave about an extra ~0.5mm of space adjacent to each side of the IC, or an extra 1mm of battery annode space between the two ICs. That is without rotating the chip which would gain an additional ~ 0.5mm. Although all of this is my speculation. I am sure if the driver were to incorporate these smaller higher density ICs, the circut board would probably fit most all of the components on the front LED side of the board, and would not interfere with the battery contact in any way.
GL


----------



## gbelleh

I used an Eneloop in my P0 for several weeks without any problems. But, you guys got me spooked, and I switched to an Energizer lithium a couple days ago. So far, mine's still going strong. But, every time I use it, I half expect it to flicker out and leave me in darkness. :candle:


----------



## mrlysle

I don't understand why they just can't make the positive battery contact a little thicker. Make it level with the surface of the IC's. They might have to make some adjustments to threading/o-ring placement, but a slightly thicker battery contact would fix everything. The PO would only be slightly longer, and as small as it is already, that wouldn't bother me at all. Then it would work with any cell you could poke in it! I was planning on running my Eneloops, and the fact that I can't, is crap! Just my humble opinion.


----------



## yifu

Ah, what can i say, every time 4Sevens releases a new light there's problems to be solved by us flashoholics, like the loose threads on the minis, mode skipping on the Quarks, buggy buck/boost converters, preflash, bad electrical contacts and now this?


----------



## JulianP

Got Lumens? said:


> Julian,
> Sorry to hear it was a no go. I would agree with you, come back to it later. Let us know.



I couldn't help myself, and retrieved the pill from the trash. I sent it to 4Seven today, with a cover letter. I explained that I probably voided the warranty, but I'd be happy to buy a new pill when a revised model becomes available. If nothing else, postage was only A$2.70. To post the whole thing back would have cost more than the P0's purchase price. 

I will let cpf subscribers to this thread know the response in due course.


----------



## shelm

If the PO was offered in large marts (Office Depot, Home Depot, ..) Foursevens could sell hundreds of copies in no time -- that is my strong believe. 

attractive tiny size, no competing product available (DQG Tiny III, China shipping, more expensive, not available right now), gift box packaging, reputable American company.

The PO has the potential to become a legendary bestseller as could be indirectly seen by the high number of views (500,000+ views, this thread!!!) -- it just has to be flawless and robust. Then word will spread!

I would think that Foursevens company is more seriously concerned by Surefire's attack (lawyers) so we cant expect a physically revised PCB design anytime soon.

Products evolve. That's normal. You have seen the Zebralight SC600 evolve, havent you?


----------



## Flying Turtle

jorn said:


> You won't find a similar sized aaa light anywhere. And you wont find a smooth flood aaa light like this. It's a cheap little thing, and i dont mind fixing it. No one makes a scene if their 20$ drop in module says poof. When it works, its the best keychain light out there, so i enjoy making it work. Would i buy another one if mine went "poof beyond repair" ? yes, no doubt.



Well said, Jorn. Along those lines, wouldn't a little ball of aluminum foil wedged into the ring help solve the Eneloop problem? I'd try it if I had some (only AA 'loops).

Geoff


----------



## Got Lumens?

mrlysle said:


> I don't understand why they just can't make the positive battery contact a little thicker. Make it level with the surface of the IC's. They might have to make some adjustments to threading/o-ring placement, but a slightly thicker battery contact would fix everything. The PO would only be slightly longer, and as small as it is already, that wouldn't bother me at all. Then it would work with any cell you could poke in it! I was planning on running my Eneloops, and the fact that I can't, is crap! Just my humble opinion.


Hi Mrlysle,
I agree with you. It would only add ~0.3mm to 0.5mm in total light length. The only problem would be that they would need to retool and redesign the head. If they just increased the pads height, that would only leave about 3/4 of a turn to keep it water tight in the off position using the current o-ring design and components.



Flying Turtle said:


> Well said, Jorn. Along those lines, wouldn't a little ball of aluminum foil wedged into the ring help solve the Eneloop problem? I'd try it if I had some (only AA 'loops).
> Geoff


Hi Geoff,
I had suggested a magnet here. I would not reccomend tinfoil as it could spread out and make contact with some of the exposed legs of the IC's and because it would be free floating in there when the light was in the off position, you would not know if it is still centered on the battery annode.
GL


----------



## jorn

Mine worked fine with a small qtc pill on top of the nipple, so a ball of alu might work. If the ic is alredy torn up, the alu ball will only make it worse. Im a bit sceptical to a ball of alu foil, might be deformed and chewed up, pices rattle aroud and short some legs or something.



> It would only add ~0.3mm to 0.5mm in total light length. The only problem would be that they would need to retool and redesign the head.


Yes i also think that would be the simplest and cheapest fix.


----------



## Got Lumens?

jorn said:


> Mine worked fine with a small qtc pill on top of the nipple, so a ball of alu might work. If the ic is alredy torn up, the alu ball will only make it worse. Im a bit sceptical to a ball of alu foil, might be deformed and chewed up, pices rattle aroud and short some legs or something.
> 
> 
> Yes i also think that would be the simplest and cheapest fix.


Jorn,
IMO, I think that redesigning just the Pills PCB would be less expensive since they already have a vendor they purchase from and it wouldn't require redesigning the body or any retooling. 
I can not say MO is 100% true, as I do not know the costs of the redesigned pills PCB and components or what the cost for additional retooling and materials is, just that it would be easier and seamless for Four Sevens to impliment.
GL


----------



## jorn

I think the p0 pill and the dqg pill are bought from the same company, they look almost 100% identical. I remeber there was a link to the dqg pill somewhere in a dqg thread here on cpf. (Someone was talking about it's heatsikig and posted link for the pill alone). I don't think it's easy to make a company change it's products all that sudden, unless your the only customer for the product. Im speculating on this one.


----------



## JulianP

shelm said:


> The PO has the potential to become a legendary bestseller as could be indirectly seen by the high number of views (500,000+ views, this thread!!!) -- it just has to be flawless and robust.



I agree. The p0 is only 0.5mm away from greatness. I don't think it would be impossible to redesign the board with surface mount components (ICs with legs are not just Y2K, they belong in museums). Surface mount components can be assembled by robots, making manufacturing even cheaper than poorly paid workers in sweatshops. Maybe 4/7 could go to a US company and order a batch of circuit boards for the p0, with the knowledge that they won't steal his design.


----------



## LGT

I'm having problems with mine. Flashes bright before turning on to high or low mode. Sticking a piece of foil or any other type of band-aid to make a new light work, IMO, is unacceptable. I would like this light if it worked properly, but it doesn't.


----------



## Streamer

I have to wonder why 4 Sevens is not dropping in here and commenting????????

_"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark"._


----------



## crizyal

Streamer said:


> I have to wonder why 4 Sevens is not dropping in here and commenting????????



+1


----------



## Got Lumens?

JulianP said:


> I agree. The p0 is only 0.5mm away from greatness. I don't think it would be impossible to redesign the board with surface mount components (ICs with legs are not just Y2K, they belong in museums). Surface mount components can be assembled by robots, making manufacturing even cheaper than poorly paid workers in sweatshops. Maybe 4/7 could go to a US company and order a batch of circuit boards for the p0, with the knowledge that they won't steal his design.



+1


----------



## mtrunner

Streamer said:


> I have to wonder why 4 Sevens is not dropping in here and commenting????????
> 
> +1


----------



## Got Lumens?




----------



## JulianP

Got Lumens? said:


>


GL, That's really funny. I guess that if a picture does mean a thousand words, is a GIF animation worth more?

BTW did anyone notice that the p0 did not make it to 4Sevens' new website? This is perhaps a good sign - Someone out there is watching this thread and working hard on a solution (ya'hope!)


----------



## reppans

Got Lumens? said:


>


:laughing:


----------



## 4sevens

Got Lumens? said:


>


Haha! Thats awesome 

From the first day we received these reports we've put our engineering team on it to investigate and a solution will be worked out.
Not everyone is having the same issues so we're not going to do a recall. However our customer service staff is always here to take care of any issues should they arise 

-D


----------



## Streamer

4sevens said:


> Haha! Thats awesome
> 
> From the first day we received these reports we've put our engineering team on it to investigate and a solution will be worked out.
> Not everyone is having the same issues so we're not going to do a recall. However our customer service staff is always here to take care of any issues should they arise
> 
> -D



Hi. Can I assume your engineers will work out a solution for next generation P0's only?

I understand the _ " Not everyone is having the same issues so we're not going to do a recall " _statement, but what about the customers that do have an issue with not being able to use eneloops and other NIMH's because of IC interference? Will you consider recalling and replacing those units? I'm currently using the provided Duracell instead of NIMH because of the IC problem in my sample.

The Preon P0 is definitely .5mm away from being a perfect little jewel....Thanks for listening.


----------



## 4sevens

Streamer said:


> ... what about the customers that do have an issue with not being able to use eneloops and other NIMH's because of IC interference? ...
> The Preon P0 is definitely .5mm away from being a perfect little jewel....Thanks for listening.


If you have issues please contact our customer service for resolution.


----------



## AlphaZen

4sevens said:


> Haha! Thats awesome
> 
> From the first day we received these reports we've put our engineering team on it to investigate and a solution will be worked out.
> Not everyone is having the same issues so we're not going to do a recall. However our customer service staff is always here to take care of any issues should they arise
> 
> -D


Excellent response. I appreciate you not getting defensive.


----------



## WhoDaresWins

LGT said:


> I'm having problems with mine. Flashes bright before turning on to high or low mode. Sticking a piece of foil or any other type of band-aid to make a new light work, IMO, is unacceptable. I would like this light if it worked properly, but it doesn't.



My P0 was doing something similar. I followed SelfBuilt's advise on his review... temporarily removed the foam and tightened the pill using the blunt edge of an exact-o knife and it works perfect now. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## Got Lumens?

LGT said:


> I'm having problems with mine. Flashes bright before turning on to high or low mode. Sticking a piece of foil or any other type of band-aid to make a new light work, IMO, is unacceptable. I would like this light if it worked properly, but it doesn't.





WhoDaresWins said:


> My P0 was doing something similar. I followed SelfBuilt's advise on his review... temporarily removed the foam and tightened the pill using the blunt edge of an exact-o knife and it works perfect now.
> Hope that helps.


Yes I agree. That is only one of the problems with High Resistance opens. The alluminum pill screws into stainless steel, The contact that the pill makes can get flakey. I choose the same fix on one of mine. Additionally I took the pill out, carefully lightly brushed the pill's threads using small wire brush, Cleaned the flashlight heads' threads, and applied a tiny bit of No-Ox(DeOxit is simular but much thinner mixture), and carefully screwed the pill back in. Caution, do not over tighten the pill. Doing so will push the lens's o-ring out the front.
The other two areas of trouble are the bottom of the battery tube, and the flashlights threads. If they get dirty, they can also make the light act up causing inconsistent switching trouble.
GL


----------



## CarpentryHero

Mine arrived in the mail yesterday and so far I like em a lot. 

I appreciate all the good info on this thread :thumbsup:


----------



## Kilovolt

Streamer said:


> It may be one of the narrower NIMH's out there but in SelfBuilts review (see list below) he lists widths of anodes in NIMH and ALkalines. Alkalines have the narrowest. Try one, it may cure your problem.
> ...........





Kilovolt said:


> Will do, thanks.




I have been using an L92 in my P0 for ten days now: not a single case of misbehavior. :thumbsup:


----------



## Streamer

Kilovolt said:


> I have been using an L92 in my P0 for ten days now: not a single case of misbehavior. :thumbsup:



:thumbsup:That's great news Kilovolt!! Glad it worked out for you. Don't put any other batteries in there or you risk fryin' an IC through abrasion by those fatter nippled alkalines and nimh's.


----------



## Got Lumens?

JulianP said:


> BTW did anyone notice that the p0 did not make it to 4Sevens' new website? This is perhaps a good sign - Someone out there is watching this thread and working hard on a solution (ya'hope!)


It's there now. They are still tweeking the site. It won't be totally live until sometime next month. Some accesories are there now, some batteries, some first generation limted editions that will probably be part of an archive section, but the dang Zoom feature is still stuck there blocking the navigation buttons at the top when you select a light to look at. Click zoom, click close, and it's gone. Hope that gets fixed :ironic: 
GL


----------



## shelm

any backorder updates on new Preon P0 hardware revisions or improvements?

the new improved DQG AAA version (limited edition as always) is already available for pre-order on their website (DQG Tiny III, release data 10th April) and since it's the direct competitor to the Preon P0, i would really love to hear some news now, thanks!


----------



## RedForest UK

I have done about every fix I can imagine on mine but on Ni-mh it still flickers every other time it goes to high mode and there is a pre-flash the first time it comes onto moonlight mode after being off a while still too. I'm holding off on sending it back though as it works so well on Energizer Lithiums, and is so light with them in too.


----------



## chaoss

Sorry to hear about the problems with this tiny jewel.
Mine is flawless with the supplied cell.
Finally, a AAA two level production mule with an ultra low setting.
Thanks FOUR7's.


----------



## shelm

shelm said:


> Preon P0-SS (*Preon P0*, see back of package, version in Stainless Steel ©2012)
> 
> specs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> related competition:
> DQG Tiny II XP-G R4/R5, 2-modes (II sold out; *release III in titanium forth-coming*)
> EOSLAMP SP11 XP-E R3, 2-modes
> Fenix E05 XP-G R4, 1-mode
> Klarus Mi X6 SS/Ti XP-G R5, 3-modes
> Lumintop Worm II/SS XP-E R3, 2-modes
> Thrunite Ti XP-E R4, 2-modes
Click to expand...


Any news or updates on the Preon P0 front? Were there any changes in the original design? Users had reported problems with Eneloop cells, loose magnets, mode skipping, etc.

Meanwhile the DQG AAA is out in its 3rd revision ("DQG Tiny III", version in Stainless Steel ©2012) with little (but significant) improvements in the design, see CPFMP Dealer's Corner, and thus becoming maturer and maturer _cada vez mas_. still not perfect (i prefer the P0's tail design!) it seems to beat the P0 (old design) in many ways, except for warranty and price.

Waiting for the P0 to catch up and become maturer as well thanks!


----------



## 4sevens

RedForest UK said:


> I have done about every fix I can imagine on mine but on Ni-mh it still flickers every other time it goes to high mode and there is a pre-flash the first time it comes onto moonlight mode after being off a while still too. I'm holding off on sending it back though as it works so well on Energizer Lithiums, and is so light with them in too.


Are you sure there is a pre-flash? I have never seen it on the P0. The flicker is due to the driver pill inside coming loose - it needs to be screwed back down. Please contact our CS to take care of it.



shelm said:


> Any news or updates on the Preon P0 front? Were there any changes in the original design? Users had reported problems with Eneloop cells, loose magnets, mode skipping, etc.


We've resolved all those problems a while back. There should be no more of those issues now.

-David


----------



## Got Lumens?

4sevens said:


> We've resolved all those problems a while back. There should be no more of those issues now.
> 
> -David


David,
Order #159401 sent for a new revised version with the changes You mentioned in order to re-review it.
GL


----------



## 4sevens

Got Lumens? said:


> David,
> Order #159401 sent for a new revised version with the changes You mentioned in order to re-review it.
> GL


Awesome! We'll get it shipped out to you on Monday!


----------



## Shooter21

Hi David can i exchange my P0 for the new revised one?


----------



## 4sevens

Shooter21 said:


> Hi David can i exchange my P0 for the new revised one?


Sorry we can't do exchanged. However if you encounter a problem we'll repair or replace it.

-David


----------



## shelm

Thanks 4sevens for the great support of your product line!!



Got Lumens? said:


> in order to *re-review* it.
> GL



i luv the details of GL analysism and reviews  :huh: 
Thanks in advance for your efforts.
i will base my purchase decision on your findings :thumbsup:


----------



## 4sevens

shelm - you're very welcome


----------



## Got Lumens?

shelm said:


> Thanks 4sevens for the great support of your product line!!
> i luv the details of GL analysism and reviews  :huh:
> Thanks in advance for your efforts.
> i will base my purchase decision on your findings :thumbsup:







Thanks David





My pleasure Shelm 
GL


----------



## Theatre Booth Guy

I got mine a couple weeks ago - it immediately earned a spot on my car/house keys. The size, weight, choice of levels, durable SS (to hold up from keys) seem to make it unbeatable. I couldn't bring myself to put a coin cell light on my keys and everything else used to be too big/heavy. Amazing job - and that it's a true flood is a major bonus for those of us who love the flood beam lights but have a hard time finding good ones! I'd love a AA version of this light - please?


​


----------



## JulianP

JulianP said:


> I couldn't help myself, and retrieved the pill from the trash. I sent it to 4Seven today, with a cover letter. I explained that I probably voided the warranty, but I'd be happy to buy a new pill when a revised model becomes available. If nothing else, postage was only A$2.70. To post the whole thing back would have cost more than the P0's purchase price.
> 
> I will let cpf subscribers to this thread know the response in due course.



Six weeks have passed since I sent the pill back to 4Sevens, and I have not received any response.


----------



## 4sevens

JulianP said:


> Six weeks have passed since I sent the pill back to 4Sevens, and I have not received any response.


I'll check with my crew about this. You should have at least gotten an email. We send a confirmation email that we've received the package right when we get it. How did you ship it from sydney? Also, did you get an RMA number? They would have likely asked you to send the whole unit instead of just the pill. 
-David


----------



## eh123456

I am seriously considering buying this Preon P0 light, but how do I know the one I will be getting is the revised version ?
Thanks.


----------



## Samy

I've been holding off because of the eneloop issue but if that's been fixed I will purchase a couple 

Cheers


----------



## 4sevens

eh123456 said:


> I am seriously considering buying this Preon P0 light, but how do I know the one I will be getting is the revised version ?
> Thanks.


We're only shipping the updated ones. We've had the new batch for a while already.

-David


----------



## JulianP

4sevens said:


> I'll check with my crew about this. You should have at least gotten an email. We send a confirmation email that we've received the package right when we get it. How did you ship it from sydney? Also, did you get an RMA number? They would have likely asked you to send the whole unit instead of just the pill.
> -David


Hi David,
Thanks for the response. I sent the letter and pill via regular post on February 27. I did not receive an email. 

I did not request an RMA number, as I did not feel entitled to any warranty. After all, I took the flashlight apart to identify the problem and I tried to fix it with workarounds suggested by other CPF members. All I would like is to buy a new pill when an eneloop-proof version becomes available. If that is not possible, I'll just buy a new Preon P0 v2.0. The item is so competitively priced that postage costs from Australia make warranty claims not worthwhile. 
Regards,
Julian


----------



## Got Lumens?

shelm said:


> Thanks 4sevens for the great support of your product line!!
> i luv the details of GL analysism and reviews  :huh:
> Thanks in advance for your efforts.
> i will base my purchase decision on your findings :thumbsup:


Hey Everybody,
I got my shipping notice :thumbsup:
I will be posting a detailed updated review Saturday. Video and all. I can't wait to check out the updated version. David has always stood by his customers and us, but this one's special




. 
I will be posting a new review thread and links from here .
GL


----------



## my#1hobby

Got Lumens? said:


> Hey Everybody,
> I got my shipping notice :thumbsup:
> I will be posting a detailed updated review Saturday. Video and all. I can't wait to check out the updated version. David has always stood by his customers and us, but this one's special
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I will be posting a new review thread and links from here .
> GL


Patiently waiting for the review.  If it's a go with eneloops, I'm in for two.


----------



## someguy4747

I have not read this thread in a while and i have not read the entire thread but it looks like there has been an update to the P0. Has it been confirmed that the P0 can be used with eneloops? I received my second P0 on 2/12/12 after my first was either DOA or broken immediately due to the use of an eneloop. I am guessing mine is not the updated version. It is working fine but I have only used it with the provided alkalines that I have received from 47's(bought a couple Preon 2's). I would use the light much more if I could use eneloops and I really have not used it much since I don't really want to buy batteries for it. Do we think I have the updated version that can use eneloops? I really don't feel like breaking this one so I can send it back and get an updated one. If mine is not compatable with eneloops I would rather exchange it without having to break it first.


----------



## Got Lumens?

my#1hobby said:


> Patiently waiting for the review.  If it's a go with eneloops, I'm in for two.


Fingers crossed, it's looking good from the info I have :thumbsup: 


4sevens said:


> Sorry we can't do exchanged. However if you encounter a problem we'll repair or replace it.
> -David





someguy4747 said:


> I have not read this thread in a while and i have not read the entire thread but it looks like there has been an update to the P0. Has it been confirmed that the P0 can be used with eneloops? I received my second P0 on 2/12/12 after my first was either DOA or broken immediately due to the use of an eneloop. I am guessing mine is not the updated version. It is working fine but I have only used it with the provided alkalines that I have received from 47's(bought a couple Preon 2's). I would use the light much more if I could use eneloops and I really have not used it much since I don't really want to buy batteries for it. Do we think I have the updated version that can use eneloops? I really don't feel like breaking this one so I can send it back and get an updated one. If mine is not compatable with eneloops I would rather exchange it without having to break it first.


Not sure if when the new stock became available, but all the lights being shipping now are the updated.
The original problem using Eneloops was not reported with every light. I am hopeful it is fixed . 
Stay tuned.
GL


----------



## jorn

Modded my p0 to a neutral xp-g. Popped the driver/led out of a dqg. Now it has 5-60 lumens with a beutiful neutral tint


----------



## JulianP

Does anyone have a photo of the revised pill? Before purchasing another P0, I'd like to see exactly how the problem has been addressed. I hope David / 4Sevens will give us some technical details.


----------



## Got Lumens?

JulianP said:


> Does anyone have a photo of the revised pill? Before purchasing another P0, I'd like to see exactly how the problem has been addressed. I hope David / 4Sevens will give us some technical details.


It's coming Julian.
I have a delay and I won't be able to finish my review as scheduled. Should be within a day or two, sorry for the delay.
GL


----------



## shelm

jorn said:


> Modded my p0 to a *neutral xp-g*. Popped the* driver*/*led* out of a dqg. Now it has 5-60 lumens with a beutiful neutral tint


getting envious now.. :devil:
congrats to the mod. must have been hell of work .. since the parts are sooooo tiny!! (okay, and how long did it take until you were done?)


----------



## jorn

shelm said:


> getting envious now.. :devil:
> congrats to the mod. must have been hell of work .. since the parts are sooooo tiny!! (okay, and how long did it take until you were done?)


Took 5 min. unscrew the pill, pop out the driverboard/led, push the dqg board/led in the quark pill. i added a drop of glue to make it stick in there more secure. And it's good to go.


----------



## Got Lumens?

jorn said:


> Took 5 min. unscrew the pill, pop out the driverboard/led, push the dqg board/led in the quark pill. i added a drop of glue to make it stick in there more secure. And it's good to go.


Ahhh Yes Jorn. Thanks for sharing. Any before, during, and after photos? One question, Does the driver of the DQG with it's higher output affect the beams output greatly? Beamshots?
Thanks
GL


----------



## jorn

Both lo and hi mode is brighter. The 0,25 lumen on the P0 made me almost always skip to high mode. Now the lo mode is way brighter. Same with hi mode, mutch brighter. Beampattern is the same. At first i was just playing around with swapping stuff. But i liked the beefed up P0 and made it permanent  The P0 board wont fit the dqg pill without shaving off some room for the "ears" on the P0 driver board. The dqg board is round, with no "ears" sticking out, so it fits the P0 pill with no "modding". 





"O-ring chewing dqg" in parts, and the chewed up (by ni-hm) P0 driver/led. Scrap parts, i prob can put them together, but nah.


----------



## RedForest UK

4sevens said:


> Are you sure there is a pre-flash? I have never seen it on the P0. The flicker is due to the driver pill inside coming loose - it needs to be screwed back down. Please contact our CS to take care of it.
> 
> -David



Retrospectively, I don't think it was a pre-flash, I think as the light had such a big mode skipping problem when I first turned it on it would skip from Low to High then Low again. This gave the appearance of a pre-flash. It seems quite a lot better now, especially on lithium primaries. But I still get a lot of flickering on high mode with ni-mh cells, then I have to really tighten the head to get it to stop. This is what caused my wearing down through one of the components and causing a short in the first place.. So I'm sticking with lithiums for now.


----------



## jorn

Got some crappy photos taken with different cameras, and camera settings. You can compare the P0 with the zebra or DQG in both shots.




DQG 60 lumen, neutral P0 "beefed up" 60 lumen, Zebra h30 80lumen, univex aaa (on max with a 10440)





DQG, Stock P0, zebralight, univex (on max with a ni-mh.)


----------



## Jimbo75

Samy said:


> I've been holding off because of the eneloop issue but if that's been fixed I will purchase a couple
> 
> Cheers



I have no idea what issue there was with the eneloops, but I just received mine today and popped an eneloop in and it works perfectly :thumbsup:.



I am quite surprised by how much light there is with .25 of a lumen(seems like more), very useable and at 25 lumens this little guy is just an awesome wall of light, obviously not blinding but perfect for the sort of close up work I do. The P0 makes my 2 E05's(r2's) look like spot lights, about 1 meter from a wall and the P0's beam is around 1.5 m wide(and perfectly round) and the E05 is about .5 m wide(jagged, uneven edged and ugly)...

The P0 is perfect in the mouth(yep, it will spend quite a bit of time there...), tiny and has no knurling to grind against my teeth. The magnet in the bottom is plenty strong to hold itself securely. 

As you can see I am pretty impressed with this little torch, it's just what I needed and the only downside I have noticed in my short time with it is it's a little hard to operate one handed due to it's diminutive size.

I just realised I have used the word perfect 4 times whilst describing this torch.....I'm off to order a back up! :naughty:


----------



## Kilovolt

Jimbo75 said:


> I have no idea what issue there was with the eneloops, but I just received mine today and popped an eneloop in and it works perfectly :thumbsup:.




It is quite likely that you received an updated specimen, however please bear in mind that for some of us the problems with Eneloops did not start immediately but after a few days of use.


----------



## jonnyfgroove

We _still_ don't know what was changed with this "update"?


----------



## Jimbo75

Kilovolt said:


> It is quite likely that you received an updated specimen, however please bear in mind that for some of us the problems with Eneloops did not start immediately but after a few days of use.



Good to know, I will report back here if anything changes.


----------



## shelm

How does the magnet behave when the P0 is attached to a bunch of keys?

i have glued a 10mm neodymium round magnet in the tail of another 1xAAA keychain torch. All keyrings would get attracted by the magnet and clumped together. So how about the P0's magnet?


----------



## Got Lumens?

*Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*

Hey everyone,
Great News, The current Preon0 version that is being shipped works awsome !!!
They have made ten revisions to the original first run. I have a video review that I will be posting in a week or so after further testing, but here are the highlights and my findings.

1) *Eneloops* *Now work flawlessly ! **(& square shaped annoded batteries)* 
2) Increased the height of the center positive driver contact 0.25mm
3) Plated the center positive contact to provide better contact and wear resistance.
4) The High Resistance opens between the driver pill and head are gone. (further testing to confirm)
5) Added two full threads thickness to the pills body.
6) Flared the last two threads ends outward to add pressure against the head
7) Incorporated a copper strip into the pill body for greater conductivity with the stainless head
8) Added a _positive_ stop for the pill to screw down against tightly
9) Changed the foam on the top of the driver pill to rubber. 
10) No more particals of foam to clog the threads
11) They now include a spare oring
12) The bottom of the battery tube is now free of burrs that scratched negative battery contacts
13) Consistant trouble free and easier one handed operation (further testing to confirm)
14) No more mode level skipping (further testing to confirm)
15) Added Oring groove seperation ring between threads and groove (Credit Cave Dave)

GL


----------



## Sno4Life

Got Lumens? said:


> Hey everyone,
> Great News, The current Preon0 version that is being shipped works awsome !!!
> They have made nine revisions to the original first run. I have a video review that I will be posting in a week or so after further testing, but here are the highlights and my findings.
> 
> 1) *Eneloops* *Now work flawlessly ! **(& square shaped annoded batteries)*
> 2) Increased the height of the center positive driver contact 0.25mm
> 3) Plated the center positive contact to provide better contact and wear resistance.
> 4) The High Resistance opens between the driver pill and head are gone. (further testing to confirm)
> 5) Added two full threads thickness to the pills body.
> 6) Flared the last two threads ends outward to add pressure against the head
> 7) Incorporated a copper strip into the pill body for greater conductivity with the stainless head
> 8) Added a _positive_ stop for the pill to screw down against tightly
> 9) Changed the foam on the top of the driver pill to rubber.
> 10) No more particals of foam to clog the threads
> 11) They now include a spare oring
> 12) The bottom of the battery tube is now free of burrs that scratched negative battery contacts
> 13) Consistant trouble free and easier one handed operation (further testing to confirm)
> 14) No more mode level skipping (further testing to confirm)
> 
> GL



Amazing job, foursevens! It takes true commitment to quality and humility to take what was a good product and improve it so quickly based upon feedback from the end-users. Awesome!


----------



## Got Lumens?

shelm said:


> How does the magnet behave when the P0 is attached to a bunch of keys?
> 
> i have glued a 10mm neodymium round magnet in the tail of another 1xAAA keychain torch. All keyrings would get attracted by the magnet and clumped together. So how about the P0's magnet?


Hi Shelm,
It acts like glueing a 7mm neodymium magnet to the light . 
It has been said, and I have tested this on one of my samples, that if you heat the magnet with the blue part of a lighters flame, it will demagnetise the magnet. Being that the Preon0's magnets are press fit into the tail, it's a non-reverseable mod . Your other option would be to get a titanium keyring and only use brass keys :devil:
GL


----------



## JulianP

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*



Got Lumens? said:


> Hey everyone,
> Great News, The current Preon0 version that is being shipped works awsome !!!
> They have made nine revisions to the original first run. I have a video review that I will be posting in a week or so after further testing, but here are the highlights and my findings.
> 
> 1) *Eneloops* *Now work flawlessly ! **(& square shaped annoded batteries)*
> 2) Increased the height of the center positive driver contact 0.25mm
> 3) Plated the center positive contact to provide better contact and wear resistance.
> GL


So, the edges of the centre positive battery terminal won't chew through the ICs anymore? I am tempted to buy again as soon as I see a photo of the P0 Pill v2.0


----------



## Got Lumens?

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*



JulianP said:


> So, the edges of the centre positive battery terminal won't chew through the ICs anymore? I am tempted to buy again as soon as I see a photo of the P0 Pill v2.0


Julian,
I took some video. I did measure the contact height as increased by 0.25mm, and also electroplated (Gold?). I will see about getting those shots for you tommorow.
GL


----------



## jonnyfgroove

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*

Thanks for the info GL. What a joke for those of us who bought the first version. Glad it was only 20 bucks..


----------



## CarpentryHero

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*

Now if they could make a Nichia Hi Cri version, I'd be buying more :naughty:


----------



## ragweed

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*

I am going to wait for more feedback before I order one. Sounds promising so far but, going to hold off until the full jury comes in with the verdict.


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*

Got mine on Sat. Works great on eneloops, I have not had a mode skip yet.

I also noticed:
*Change #15: O-Ring is in its own separate groove now.*


----------



## Got Lumens?

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*



cave dave said:


> Got mine on Sat. Works great on eneloops, I have not had a mode skip yet.
> 
> I also noticed:
> *Change #15: O-Ring is in its own separate groove now.*


Dave,
I will take a few close up photos of that for you when I do some shots tonight. That groove was there in v.1.1, but they have stopped the threads and added a solid ring between the threads and that groove. Nice observation :thumbsup:
GL


----------



## Got Lumens?

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*

A couple of pics. Detailed review coming next.
GL





.


----------



## bob_ninja

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*

Got new one as well. Using it for about 2 weeks with a Duraloop, no issues of any kind.
There is clearly protection for circuits as you cannot see them, covered by some sort of protective material.
Also I don't see any damage on negative side, but I don't tighten too much.
Finally cell comes out easy enough; just need a little shake due to the magnet.

I can say after revisions this is exactly what I have been waiting for .... a long time, lost track how long 
Anyway great utility light, for sure.


----------



## JulianP

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*



Got Lumens? said:


> A couple of pics. Detailed review coming next.
> GL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Thanks, that looks a lot better. I emailed 4Sevens again, asking whether I could buy a new pill for my dud P0. I had no response. It has been 7 weeks since my initial request, and I am still really trying hard to become one of their fans.


----------



## Got Lumens?

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*

Heres The change Video.
GL




. . . . . . Click to View


----------



## KarstGhost

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*

Huge props to 4sevens for listening to feedback and improving their product, will be ordering some of these soon!


----------



## Ishango

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*



KarstGhost said:


> Huge props to 4sevens for listening to feedback and improving their product, will be ordering some of these soon!



Definitely good to hear 4sevens to listen to the feedback and act on it. I got one of the earlier models and have a few minor ignoring glitches like the mode switching not working properly (not enough to send it back due to costs and not good enough to 100% love this light). I'll order a new one next month or so when my next payroll comes in to get a proper working version. I love each light of 4Sevens I own and love to see what the future brings. Good to hear they take care of their customers.


----------



## JulianP

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*



JulianP said:


> Thanks, that looks a lot better. I emailed 4Sevens again, asking whether I could buy a new pill for my dud P0. I had no response. It has been 7 weeks since my initial request, and I am still really trying hard to become one of their fans.



Well, not only did I get a response! Today I received a replacement Preon P0 V2.0 at no extra charge. I have been converted to one of their fans, so now off I go to their website to order some of their High CRIs. I just need to choose between the Preon 1 and the Quark MiNi AA.


----------



## Flying Turtle

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*

This is indeed good news. I might just have to add another. Thanks to 4Sevens for getting this fixed, and to Got Lumens for pointing it out.

Geoff


----------



## Jimbo75

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*



JulianP said:


> Well, not only did I get a response! Today I received a replacement Preon P0 V2.0 at no extra charge. I have been converted to one of their fans, so now off I go to their website to order some of their High CRIs. I just need to choose between the Preon 1 and the Quark MiNi AA.




Some overseas companies shy away from dealing with warranty issues in Australia(or just overseas), good to see 4sevens committed to good service beyond the US. It can only help their international sales seeing responses like this. :thumbsup:


----------



## Streamer

*Re: Foursevens Preon P0 Ver1.2 - Now Eneloop compatible*

Well my version 1 pooped out. Let it sit for couple weeks and started misfiring, wouldn't go into high mode....a complete dud. Wonder if they will replace it with new version 2?

ETA: Fired an email to Foursevens. And from what I've read here, I'll prob need an RMA. I too tried some work arounds and most likely voided the warranty. It still works, but is spotty with misfires and no high modes without heavy heavy twist. Will not run on Eneloops.

Hope it works out.


----------



## Streamer

4sevens said:


> If you have issues please contact our customer service for resolution.



Dave, I returned my P0 today:

RMA# 15476120120511RP
The work around with the solder blob lasted til it wore down...now back to contact problems. TIA​


----------



## gcconspiracy

Well, after reading this thread I was excited and skeptical at the same time. But after hearing about the revision, I finally ordered one (my first ever flashlight purchase at that!). It is on back order, but I should get it before too long. Very excited for this light!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## shelm

gcconspiracy said:


> It is on back order,


very good sign imho. could be the 2nd sales wave, people like you now hopping off their fence. Preon P0 revision 2, way to go!!! And good luck 4sevens with the car racing, exciting videos on youtube  sent from my iphon using tapatalk


----------



## Kilovolt

Although since I started using L92 primary lithium cells my P0 v.1 has behaved quite well I have decided to buy also a v.2 to make the comparison myself. It has been shipped yesterday.


----------



## gcconspiracy

shelm said:


> very good sign imho. could be the 2nd sales wave, people like you now hopping off their fence. Preon P0 revision 2, way to go!!! And good luck 4sevens with the car racing, exciting videos on youtube  sent from my iphon using tapatalk



Actually I did not order directly from 4sevens, so it is more likely just the specific retailer who is sold out...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Got Lumens?

gcconspiracy said:


> Actually I did not order directly from 4sevens, so it is more likely just the specific retailer who is sold out...
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


$22.99 Shipped from 4sevens.com with discount 
GL


----------



## gcconspiracy

Got Lumens? said:


> $22.99 Shipped from 4sevens.com with discount
> GL



I was unaware of any available discount. But I actually got it for slightly less ($22.00 with free shipping)!


----------



## LEDconvert

Am I correct in saying that the more recent version has a red rubber insulating ring on the head?
I received a replacement for a malfunctioning unit last week; the original had a black foamy-type ring. 
The replacement is working flawlessly! 
Far from feeling negative about the initial problem, I'm left in awe of the 47s customer service policies. 
I've never, ever, had a problem resolved so completely to my satisfaction, which is actually a very clever strategy, because my feelings of goodwill guarantee that I'll be back to buy again and again.

Keep up the good work David! (like the new 47s website by the way, esp. the 'light finder')


----------



## Haesslich

Given that these are now in Canada at Mountain Equipment Co-Op for $22, I wonder if they're carrying the revised or original versions. Hopefully the latter - it'd be nice to have a decent 'cheap' light to give out to friends and family.


----------



## calipsoii

Haesslich said:


> Given that these are now in Canada at Mountain Equipment Co-Op for $22, I wonder if they're carrying the revised or original versions. Hopefully the latter - it'd be nice to have a decent 'cheap' light to give out to friends and family.



Not _quite _in at MEC yet. I drove down there looking for one when I saw it on their website. Was told in store that it was still in pre-order stage. 

Sure enough, MEC did a system upgrade this week and now it shows "Pre Order" clear as day on the product page.

Once they bring them in, my plans are to:
a) open one up and see if it has the raised positive contact (signifying the new version)
b) rip it apart and put a Nichia 219 in it :devil:


----------



## Haesslich

(Deleted)


----------



## Haesslich

calipsoii said:


> Not _quite _in at MEC yet. I drove down there looking for one when I saw it on their website. Was told in store that it was still in pre-order stage. Sure enough, MEC did a system upgrade this week and now it shows "Pre Order" clear as day on the product page.Once they bring them in, my plans are to:a) open one up and see if it has the raised positive contact (signifying the new version)b) rip it apart and put a Nichia 219 in it :devil:


Damn. Now I'm seeing the pre-order tag. Ah well - this hopefully means it's the new version.Bad news - I don't have a Nichia 219 to replace the XP-E with.


----------



## Got Lumens?

calipsoii said:


> Not _quite _in at MEC yet. I drove down there looking for one when I saw it on their website. Was told in store that it was still in pre-order stage.
> 
> Sure enough, MEC did a system upgrade this week and now it shows "Pre Order" clear as day on the product page.
> 
> Once they bring them in, my plans are to:
> a) open one up and see if it has the raised positive contact (signifying the new version)
> b) rip it apart and put a Nichia 219 in it :devil:





Haesslich said:


> Damn. Now I'm seeing the pre-order tag. Ah well - this hopefully means it's the new version.Bad news - I don't have a Nichia 219 to replace the XP-E with.


I'd like a beamshot comparison(s) guys . With the proper tools, alot of patience, I could see it being doable.


----------



## Haesslich

If he does it, I'm buying a second just to have him or someone else do it.


----------



## CarpentryHero

Hopefully calipsoli is willing to do a couple  Nichia upgrades


----------



## Streamer

Just received message from FourSevens saying they have *replaced* my problematic P0 and it ships out today. *YESSSSSS>>>...*    

Just under two weeks turnaround time. Was getting worried about it because of the workarounds performed... but the *HOMBRES at FOUR-SEVENS *pulled me through.

*THANKS FourSevens !!!..... YOU GUYS ROCK !!!*


----------



## jorn

calipsoii said:


> Once they bring them in, my plans are to:
> a) open one up and see if it has the raised positive contact (signifying the new version)
> b) rip it apart and put a Nichia 219 in it :devil:


I dont see how to do that. To shave off every mm, the led is mounted directly on the driver. If you try to reflow the led directly on to the driver, the ic's will fall off.


----------



## calipsoii

jorn said:


> I dont see how to do that. To shave off every mm, the led is mounted directly on the driver. If you try to reflow the led directly on to the driver, the ic's will fall off.



Oof, didn't realize that. For $22 I'm still willing to give it a shot - it'd be a different story if they cost $70 or something. Assuming MEC ever bring 'em in I'll give it a shot and let you know what happens.


----------



## Got Lumens?

jorn said:


> I dont see how to do that. To shave off every mm, the led is mounted directly on the driver. If you try to reflow the led directly on to the driver, the ic's will fall off.


Yes. You also need to bear in mind that it is a double sided circut board. The wave soldering on the LED side of the board would be no problem, but then you also have the second side to reflow as well. With the proper tools, and a ton(I mean TON) of patience, it would be doable. I only have a regular weller soldering iron station, and you would need an adjustable one with a small enough tip to remount all the other components after changing the LED out.
NOT an easy project, but not impossible either. 
GL


----------



## squaat

Haesslich said:


> Given that these are now in Canada at Mountain Equipment Co-Op for $22, I wonder if they're carrying the revised or original versions. Hopefully the latter - it'd be nice to have a decent 'cheap' light to give out to friends and family.



FYI if you are in Vancouver Warriors and Wonders have the p0 for $19. I bought one just yesterday (As a gift) and I noticed that it had the red rubber insulating / reverse polarity protector in it. So I assume it's the newer version.

In other news I had my orginal release p0 short on me and get really hot. It worked again afterwards, but I've sent it back to 4sevens as an RMA. From my correspondence with them it looks like they are going to "repair" it. Will be interested to see that what actually means.


----------



## RedForest UK

Having done the fixes for the shorting problem with my run 1 P0 I had always still had flickering problems. I had tried screwing the pill in as tight as it would go, and even using conductive 'wire glue' to attach the pill to the host for better connection. But still, every other time it went on high (and much more likely if it had been off for a while), it would flicker for a while until it was tightened further. Today however, it happened to get a little dirty with some dark oily fingerprints. I gave it a good wash with soap and hot water in the sink to clean it up, and since then, for the first time since I received it, it has worked perfectly!

I have no idea how washing it (only the exterior) could have sorted out what I thought was a contact issue, but it appears that it did.


----------



## Ishango

I experienced some of the mode switching issues on my early P0 as well. Since ordering a new one is about as expensive as sending my P0 back for repairs I decided to just order a new one after having contacted 4Sevens. Since the first one is still usable for some tasks, I don't really mind. For EDC purposes I want a light that works flawlessly.


----------



## Streamer

Received my replacement P0 in Tuesdays mail. It is definitely Version II and works flawlessly even with Eneloops....I'm totally pleased with FourSevens customer service and I think they got it right in the new and improved Version II. Kudos to 4 7's TEAM... )


----------



## JulianP

I think 4Sevens know we are a decent bunch at CPF, and treat us well. I ended up buying more flashlights from them , partly out of gratitude for their excellent service. The other reason was that I am addicted to flashlights, and i can't stop.


----------



## Jimbo75

*DQG III and P0 pill swap*

I just popped a neutral(quite warm for a neutral...) led pill from a DQG III into my P0 and now have a brighter wall of neutral/warm light. This gives much better depth perception over the lower lumen cool white original(to my eyes anyway) and by dispersing this leds beam it slightly cooled and improved the tint. 

The cool white pill from the P0 in the DQG III body with TIR(?) lens, concentrates the beam and made the overly cool tint a little more neutral. With this swap it was a win win. 

Quick comment on the two torches, the P0 is almost $10 cheaper and has a much better(stronger) magnet in the tail but where the DQG excels is with its generous knurling, offering a superior grip, otherwise these are very similar little torches.


----------



## Kilovolt

*Re: DQG III and P0 pill swap*

I just received my P0 MK II and it appears to work very well with a NiMH.

I am not going back and read 750+ posts to check if this has already been said but if you want to be able to tell which is which the lengths of the heads alone are:

P0 MK I = 15.7 mm

P0 MK II = 17.2 mm


:wave:


----------



## shelm

*Re: DQG III and P0 pill swap*



Kilovolt said:


> P0 MK I = 15.7 mm
> 
> P0 MK II = 17.2 mm


Preon P0 isnt now the smallest 1xAAA power LED flashlight any longer!
The DQG AAA III Ti is smaller. And Titanium.


----------



## Streamer

*Re: DQG III and P0 pill swap*



shelm said:


> Preon P0 isnt now the smallest 1xAAA power LED flashlight any longer!
> The DQG AAA III Ti is smaller. And Titanium.



*He said; She said; Would you believe.......?*


----------



## melty

*Re: DQG III and P0 pill swap*



Jimbo75 said:


> I just popped a neutral(quite warm for a neutral...) led pill from a DQG III into my P0 and now have a brighter wall of neutral/warm light. This gives much better depth perception over the lower lumen cool white original(to my eyes anyway) and by dispersing this leds beam it slightly cooled and improved the tint.
> 
> The cool white pill from the P0 in the DQG III body with TIR(?) lens, concentrates the beam and made the overly cool tint a little more neutral. With this swap it was a win win.
> 
> Quick comment on the two torches, the P0 is almost $10 cheaper and has a much better(stronger) magnet in the tail but where the DQG excels is with its generous knurling, offering a superior grip, otherwise these are very similar little torches.



So your modified DQG III now has a 0.25 lumen low? Hmm... intriguing. :strokebeard:

The DQG Titanium will come with a stronger magnet, but it is twice the price of the SS version. I keep both the P0 and the DQG III on my keychain. Their differing beam patterns and output levels compliment each other nicely.


----------



## Got Lumens?

*Re: DQG III and P0 pill swap*



Kilovolt said:


> I just received my P0 MK II and it appears to work very well with a NiMH.
> 
> I am not going back and read 750+ posts to check if this has already been said but if you want to be able to tell which is which the lengths of the heads alone are:
> 
> P0 MK I = 15.7 mm
> 
> P0 MK II = 17.2 mm
> 
> 
> :wave:


An easier way is to remove the head, and look at the oring placement(for those without digital calipers). The version 1 had the oring groove directly adjacent to the threads, and Ver. 2 has a ridge and the threads stop before the groove.
GL


----------



## Got Lumens?

*Re: DQG III and P0 pill swap*



shelm said:


> Preon P0 isnt now the smallest 1xAAA power LED flashlight any longer!
> The DQG AAA III Ti is smaller. And Titanium.


Hi Shelm,
1mm makes the differance? What's the length of the DQG?
GL


----------



## Ishango

*Re: DQG III and P0 pill swap*

I was having some minor problems with my P0 from the first batch as well. But it wasn't too bad as some have posted. Since sending it back to the US for me was about as expensive as buying a new one, I ordered another P0 and gave my other P0 to my girlfriend because she likes the size and looks of this little light. Now we both are happy with our Preon P0's, so that's definitely problem solved. Thanks again to David and his crew for fixing the problems.


----------



## shelm

*Re: DQG III and P0 pill swap*



Got Lumens? said:


> Hi Shelm,
> 1mm makes the differance? What's the length of the DQG?
> GL


okok i was bluffing, hah.
i had thought that if the P0 has grown in height, then it cant be the smallest any longer.
btw, it#s difficult to measure the size of both lights, because they are twisties and one would have to specify 
1) battery loaded or not,
AND
2) light is switched on or off


----------



## Got Lumens?

*Re: DQG III and P0 pill swap*



shelm said:


> okok i was bluffing, hah.
> i had thought that if the P0 has grown in height, then it cant be the smallest any longer.
> btw, it#s difficult to measure the size of both lights, because they are twisties and one would have to specify
> 1) battery loaded or not,
> AND
> 2) light is switched on or off


You got me 
The head on version two is indeed longer than version 1, but so is the threading deeper on verisn two to maintain a simular height .
GL


----------



## gcconspiracy

Just got mine in the mail on Monday. So far it seems to be a great little light! Absolutely no problems with flickering etc. Love the nice even flood. Other than some old maglites, this is my first decent flashlight, and I'm really enjoying it!

Also, I should say that this thing is INCREDIBLY SMALL!!! Every time I look at it, I can't believe that a AAA cell fits inside of it!


----------



## Wiggle

Got mine a couple days ago and I've been trying it out off and on, no serious use yet though. I like the build, it's nice looking and feeling light. The magnet and GITD are good additions. Currently using it with Eneloop and it seems to work fine. The only time I get any flickering or mode problems is if I tighten down the head excessively, with normal torque it's totally well behaved. Is this normal?

Initially I wasn't sold on the beam type and outputs but after trying them I'm pleased. The low mode is great once your eyes are dark adapted, good for finding your way out of bed or poking around in a drawer. For other areas with some ambient light the high mode puts out a useful amount of light for anything close range. It certainly won't be of much use after 15 feet or so but within normal indoor distances it's perfect. Its nice not having to hunt around with a hot spot, everything is illuminated. It won't be replacing my current EDC (generally a Titanium Preon II, sometimes a Quark AA-T) but it's so small I can justify also having it on me all the time.

I'm going on a camping trip soon and I get the impression the low mode is going to be useful in the tent, and the high mode outside of it.


----------



## Got Lumens?

Been using mine now for a couple of months off and on. It's a very good night light beside the bed. The low is perfect for leaving it on low all night long. High is very good also. I have carried it as a backup to my EDC. Two is one, one is none thinking. It is reasonbly priced, lower now than first release, and much more useful personal lighting tool. It fits perfectly in the watch pocket of most jeans which saves it from scratches and sticking to metal keys and such in my pockets. 

If they would make the Preon A, an AA version of it, it would be great to have it as a spare cell holder. They could ramp up the high mode from 25 to say 40-50lms allowing more usefullness in higher lit environments of daytime and still keep the great runtimes. They make perfect gifts for the flashaholic and non-flashaholic alike. They improved it much, made it NiMh compatable and fixed all the known problems. Thank You Four Sevens for taking our feedback and making it the great little light it is. It's a keeper in my book .
GL


----------



## Danielight

So if I decide to order a Preon P0 now, I can be pretty sure I'll get the "new & improved" version 2, right?


----------



## Kilovolt

Danielight said:


> So if I decide to order a Preon P0 now, I can be pretty sure I'll get the "new & improved" version 2, right?




I you order it directly from 4Sevens the answer is yes. In case of a dealer you can not be 100% sure, they might have some old ones laying around.


----------



## Danielight

Kilovolt said:


> I you order it directly from 4Sevens the answer is yes. In case of a dealer you can not be 100% sure, they might have some old ones laying around.


Looks like Going Gear has the *P0* for a pretty good price and reasonable shipping. If I ask them about the version they are currently shipping, they should know whether it's the newest. Anyone here ordered this light from Going Gear?


----------



## Streamer

Maybe they'll be nice enough to take a look inside the P0 head for you. The most obvious upgrade to version II will be the red rubber washer in the head as pictured below. Version 1 had the black softer foam type washer.


----------



## squaat

I just got my new P0 back from 4sevens. I sent in my old one after it got really hot on eneloops. They sent me a new one that works perfectly with eneloops. Thanks 4sevens you are awesome.


----------



## Got Lumens?

Danielight said:


> Looks like Going Gear has the *P0* for a pretty good price and reasonable shipping. If I ask them about the version they are currently shipping, they should know whether it's the newest. Anyone here ordered this light from Going Gear?


Another easier way rather than having the dealer open the product, is to ask when the stock was ordered. All the first run stock was sold prior to ~April 2012. So if they recieved the lights from Four Sevens after ~March 2012, chances are they are the new version 2. 

I have spoken to a couple of dealers that know which version they have and are selling, it doesn't hurt to ask which version they are selling if you are not ordering direct. 

I have ordered from Going Gear before, they are a good dealer and answer questions like this with ease.

GL


----------



## Haesslich

Mountain Equipment Co-Op has the P0 in stock now - I was in Victoria last Friday, and just got one from another store in AB today. It's V2 for sure - deeper threading on the body. This beats out my Preon 1, Quark Mini 123 and CR2 in usability thanks to the Moonlight mode, which was the best part of the AA2 (now renamed), and the size is perfect for easy pocket carry. 

And it's cheap enouhh to be given away to anyone who needs a pocket or purse light. . I'm very pleased with the revised version. It's not a perfect light, nor a powerful one... but it's got a usable flood and low-low setting. I can match this up with my Preon 2 HiCRI and take care of 80% of my daily flashlight needs. For anything that needs 100-200+ lumens I can handle with my LD40 or TK35 (one of which always travels with me).


----------



## gunga

I got one yesterday. Tiny, and cool.


----------



## 4sevens

Hurray for MEC!


----------



## gunga

Yep. I decided I wanted one, didn't want to wait 10 days to 2 weeks to get one, and was satisfied with the pricing at MEC. I'm a long time member, love that store. It's also nice to handle the light a bit before buying it.

Good job getting the lights into MEC.


----------



## Haesslich

4sevens said:


> Hurray for MEC!



This way I get to try it out a bit, and instant gratification. Plus, I remember when they began carrying Quarks - a good way to expose the brand to the public.


----------



## calipsoii

calipsoii said:


> Once they bring them in, my plans are to:
> a) open one up and see if it has the raised positive contact (signifying the new version)
> b) rip it apart and put a Nichia 219 in it :devil:





jorn said:


> I dont see how to do that. To shave off every mm, the led is mounted directly on the driver. If you try to reflow the led directly on to the driver, the ic's will fall off.





Got Lumens? said:


> Yes. You also need to bear in mind that it is a double sided circut board. The wave soldering on the LED side of the board would be no problem, but then you also have the second side to reflow as well. With the proper tools, and a ton(I mean TON) of patience, it would be doable. I only have a regular weller soldering iron station, and you would need an adjustable one with a small enough tip to remount all the other components after changing the LED out.
> NOT an easy project, but not impossible either.
> GL



:devil::devil:


----------



## jorn

calipsoii said:


> :devil::devil:


Nice 219 job. hard thing to do? 
I simply use the pill from a neutral dqg. 5 and 60 lumen, so its waaaaay brighter:devil:


----------



## gunga

Please explain how you did the mod!


----------



## Haesslich

Ooh. Where are you, and how much would it cost to get a modded P0?


----------



## Got Lumens?

calipsoii said:


> :devil::devil:



Now that's dedication 
Very Nice :twothumbs:


----------



## calipsoii

Haesslich said:


> Ooh. Where are you, and how much would it cost to get a modded P0?



I am in Alberta, though I don't know how comfortable I'd be working on someone else's light...



gunga said:


> Please explain how you did the mod!



 Modding this light will guaranteed void the warranty. It might not work properly (if at all) afterwards. Attempt at your own risk. 


remove the brass positive contact by applying a tiny bit of solder and heating it quickly with the side of your iron while working at it with tweezers 
apply a tiny dab of solder to the pad beneath the brass contact, then heat that while prying at the LED 
place the new LED and reflow it by heating the positive contact pad 
replace the brass positive contact 
 
I know the underside of the pill looks pretty rough in these photos, but I was poking at it and heating it with the iron for almost an hour trying different things out. The next time I mod one I know how I'm going to do it.










Left: Peak Eiger 219 (narrow) -------- Right: Preon P0 219










Preon P0 219





Peak Eiger 219 (narrow)





Overall impressions so far:

The threaded pill is made of very thin nickel-plated copper(?) or something equally soft. Alligator clamps and screwdrivers will dent it easily. 
As with every 219 mod I've done so far, the light is brighter on High, but gets warmer a LOT faster. Lower Vf, etc etc. 
Someone commented (I believe it was PoliceScannerMan) that the perceived color temperature of this 219 LED gets cooler as you go from focused -> flood. Having done this light, I would agree. 
The beam pattern is no longer perfectly round, it's slightly square. I believe this is due to the larger die of the 219. Perhaps that's why 47's chose the XP-E? (or maybe they wanted a bit more throw)


----------



## skyfire

nice job on the emitter swap!

i was planning on doing the same until i took out the pill and saw it. :duh2:
i figured spending a few hours modding a $20 light that is rarely ever used wasnt worth it, plus the fact that while attempting it i could easily destroy it


----------



## Haesslich

calipsoii said:


> I am in Alberta, though I don't know how comfortable I'd be working on someone else's



PU was thinking of paying you to buy one and mod it... especially as the Edmonton MEC has it in stock, and Calgary should be able to get it easily.


----------



## Patriot

Really amazing work Calipsoii! Great end results as well. Wouldn't it be neat if it was just made that way to begin with?


----------



## shelm

Anyone bought the Titanium XP-G2?
Are the threads gritty?


----------



## Etsu

shelm said:


> Anyone bought the Titanium XP-G2?



Having just bought the SS version, I can't see the 63% higher price is worth it for just 5 extra lumens. All other mode specs look the same. Though, who knows, if I didn't already have the Preon 0, I might be tempted just for the cool titanium tube. Still, I can see why this is a limited edition. At that price point, it doesn't really compare well to other keychain lights in the same category.


----------



## ico

Just saw it a few sconds ago and I'm very tempted but I'm broke:mecry:


----------



## Tete

Had to order one...:shakehead


----------



## Al Thumbs

Etsu said:


> Having just bought the SS version, I can't see the 63% higher price is worth it for just 5 extra lumens. All other mode specs look the same.



That's not the point.



> Though, who knows, if I didn't already have the Preon 0, I might be tempted just for the cool titanium tube.



_That's_​ the point.


----------



## Etsu

Al Thumbs said:


> _That's_​ the point.



Oh, I know. I just see it as a very niche product. They'll probably make money from it, though, since the design changes are so minimal and there's little cost in the redesign. Probably a lot higher margins, too.

Still, would it have killed them to up the lumens to 60 or so? Oh well, high output isn't really the point of the light, I suppose.


----------



## shelm

light should always be the point of a light imho


----------



## Esko

Etsu said:


> Still, would it have killed them to up the lumens to 60 or so? Oh well, high output isn't really the point of the light, I suppose.



If you check calipsoiis photographs (posts 792 and 797), you can see that the heat sinking of the led is far from optimal. It is attached to a driver board, not directly to a metallic pill (which would have made the light clearly bigger). 25/30 lumens surely is plenty enough for this light and a decent runtime is a good feature, too.


----------



## Al Thumbs

Etsu said:


> Oh, I know. I just see it as a very niche product. They'll probably make money from it, though, since the design changes are so minimal and there's little cost in the redesign. Probably a lot higher margins, too.
> 
> Still, would it have killed them to up the lumens to 60 or so? Oh well, high output isn't really the point of the light, I suppose.



I agree that it's pricy for not much increase in performance, but let's face it– the flashlight marketplace is filled with products that are bling, more jewelry than flashlight. The wristwatch market is similar; you can get dead-nuts accurate timekeeping for $50, but people still spend thousands for watches because they look nice. Nothing wrong with that, either.

In regards to the P0/A0, what's nice about this light is its sub-lumen low mode, and its reflectorless beam. In the dark, its jump from .25 lumens to 24 lumens is plenty. If the A0 had a .24L mode and went directly to 60L, it would be a blinding change. If FourSevens dumped the .25L mode, to accommodate a 60L high, it would ruin the usefulness of this light and it would just be another Olight, Thrunite, Fenix multimode AAA light.


----------



## MCN

I just ordered the A0. I had one of the original P0s with defective switching and returned it for a refund and never got another. Titanium lights are hard for me to resist so I decided to go for it.


----------



## kaichu dento

Al Thumbs said:


> I agree that it's pricy for not much increase in performance, but let's face it– the flashlight marketplace is filled with products that are bling, more jewelry than flashlight. The wristwatch market is similar; you can get dead-nuts accurate timekeeping for $50, but people still spend thousands for watches because they look nice. Nothing wrong with that, either.
> 
> In regards to the P0/A0, what's nice about this light is its sub-lumen low mode, and its reflectorless beam. In the dark, its jump from .25 lumens to 24 lumens is plenty. If the A0 had a .24L mode and went directly to 60L, it would be a blinding change. If FourSevens dumped the .25L mode, to accommodate a 60L high, it would ruin the usefulness of this light and it would just be another Olight, Thrunite, Fenix multimode AAA light.


This is exactly why I'm buying my first new light in ages. 

Nice low, reflectorless beam for around the house at night, coupled with a decent find-your-way-around level that won't leave you blind when you turn it off. 

Looked to see if there was a warmer emitter available, but then realized that on a lower modes only light, I'd still go for the cooler tint.

Now I've got to find the discount code...* Discount codes are not to be discussed outside of the appropriate area in the Marketplace. - Norm*


----------



## Gadgetman7

I just ordered one. I really like my 1st Gen model but couldn't resist the titanium one to go with my titanium minis. 😎


----------



## kaichu dento

Got mine on the way and am looking forward to giving it a good trial run soon!


(thanks for the heads up Norm)


----------



## ico

Etsu said:


> Oh, I know. I just see it as a very niche product. They'll probably make money from it, though, since the design changes are so minimal and there's little cost in the redesign. Probably a lot higher margins, too.
> 
> Still, would it have killed them to up the lumens to 60 or so? Oh well, high output isn't really the point of the light, I suppose.



They make money from all of their products. That's why they are a business. 

The price increase is because of the metal used. Titanium. Titanium is more expensive than aluminum and harder to shape so of course the price will definitely be higher.


----------



## Etsu

Esko said:


> If you check calipsoiis photographs (posts 792 and 797), you can see that the heat sinking of the led is far from optimal. It is attached to a driver board, not directly to a metallic pill (which would have made the light clearly bigger).



Is heat build-up an issue for the LED with extended run times, then? Mine only gets a bit warm when I use for an hour or so. Is the body getting rid of enough heat?


----------



## jorn

Etsu said:


> At that price point, it doesn't really compare well to other keychain lights in the same category.


Yeah, like the tain ti p0.
The old stock p0 was more like 30 otf lumens according to a old post from david. So it`s under specced. The difference between 30 and 60 lumens is really small in a mulehead. The lumens are too spread out, and our eyes struggle to see the difference. If you need to own a 60 lumen version. Buy a dqg, pop out the mpcb with led, and put it in a p0 pill. Easy. But it wont make you go "wow", at all.. when compared with a stock 30 lumen. The runtimes and the lo mode had the biggest change.


----------



## shelm

how much is the titanium like 40 bucks?
yeah i agree, if one needs more lumens it's an idea to look into the original product, the dqg Titanio AAA. was on sale not long ago on cpfmp. has 60 lumens.


----------



## Esko

kaichu dento said:


> This is exactly why I'm buying my first new light in ages.



The P0 I bought a couple of weeks ago was my first purchase this year, too. A friend had lost his P1 (a gift from me) and needed a Mini 2*AA to replace it. Preons were on sale so I decided to buy one for me, too. Glad I did. I had bought a P0 for gift before, but didn't quite like the tint (which is a bit affected by the GITD material) so I didn't realize how useful it was otherwise. I have some cheap fauxtons attached to zippers, bags, keys etc. and if Foursevens released a NW version, I might consider replacing some of them with those. A real upgrade, should I say...



kaichu dento said:


> Looked to see if there was a warmer emitter available, but then realized that on a lower modes only light, I'd still go for the cooler tint.



Com si, com sa... When the intensity is low, warmer tints become increasingly pleasant to eyes... Think about the sun. Whether you like CW or NW, a midday sun in pretty pleasant to your eyes. It is also cool white (5500K-6000K; a lot more if it is cloudy). Late night/early morning sun is also pretty pleasant. It is not bright, and it is warm white. I like neutral whites but the fixed lights in my home are mainly 5800K. They are also pretty bright. I have some warmer and dimmer lights for evening use and when it comes to flashlights, my preferences generally change slightly towards warmer tints when the intensity gets lower.



ico said:


> The price increase is because of the metal used. Titanium. Titanium is more expensive than aluminum and harder to shape so of course the price will definitely be higher.



The original P0 is stainless steel, not aluminum.



Etsu said:


> Is heat build-up an issue for the LED with extended run times, then? Mine only gets a bit warm when I use for an hour or so. Is the body getting rid of enough heat?



It is not about the heat of the body, it is about the heat of the led.. I don't quite know if it is a real problem. I just know that the heat management must be far from optimal and AAA sized pocket rockets with some 100lm+ of output need really good heat management. We also know that there is a pretty similar light with some 60lm output (DQG) and Foursevens takes the heat management more seriously than many other manufacturers. So... Who knows? :shrug: Anyway. The difference in perceived brightness is not very big. 30 lumens vs 60 lumens? If we were talking about 1 lumen vs. 2 lumens (it is the same difference), no-one would care. 25 lumens or 30 lumens is just fine for this light. I would be less interested if it tried to be a pocket rocket with a very short runtime.


----------



## kaichu dento

Esko said:


> When the intensity is low, warmer tints become increasingly pleasant to eyes... Think about the sun. Whether you like CW or NW, a midday sun in pretty pleasant to your eyes. It is also cool white (5500K-6000K; a lot more if it is cloudy). Late night/early morning sun is also pretty pleasant. It is not bright, and it is warm white. I like neutral whites but the fixed lights in my home are mainly 5800K. They are also pretty bright. I have some warmer and dimmer lights for evening use and when it comes to flashlights, my preferences generally change slightly towards warmer tints when the intensity gets lower.


I like cooler tints on lower levels and warmer tints as the output goes up.

Not so much a fan of midday sun as I am of the warmer tones in the evening, and I love moonlight as is.

Since LED's work opposite to my preference people like you are in luck! 

I'll post up when mine gets here, but am really expecting satisfaction on this one.


----------



## shelm

kaichu dento said:


> but am really expecting satisfaction on this one.



titanium threads aren't they hard to twist?

on my ITP A3 Titanium the threads were fine when the light was new, but after thousands of twists in an effort to make the threads smoother, it actually got worse. much worse. they are now 100% impossible to twist single-handed. i still love the looks of A3 Ti but the light doesn't get used by me anymore.


----------



## Etsu

Strange. Titanium and steel have about the same hardness, so the threads shouldn't weaken with use. Maybe the threads developed some oxidation, which causes friction to rise? I'm guessing that bare titanium is going to oxidize more easily than stainless steel.


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## jorn

Cheap "mass prodused" titanium lights can be hard to twist, but usually gets better with lots of use. Check if the silicon o-ring has swelled. Remove the o-ring and try twist it. If it`s still hard to operate, its the threads. If not, change the o-ring. (Im assuming its well lubed.)
The expensive ti lights like tain`s custom ti p0 is in a diffetent leuage when it comes to smooth titanium threads. I don`t expect the new ti version to be as smooth as a +200$ custom ti p0. But who knows. It may be better than the average budget ti light.


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## yoyoman

I've just started using the home brewed lube from fyrstormer on my ti lights. I use it on my ti Preon and it makes a big difference. I have a clicky on the Preon and I don't open it frequently, but it is smoother with this special lube.


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## kaichu dento

shelm said:


> titanium threads aren't they hard to twist?
> 
> on my ITP A3 Titanium the threads were fine when the light was new, but after thousands of twists in an effort to make the threads smoother, it actually got worse. much worse. they are now 100% impossible to twist single-handed. i still love the looks of A3 Ti but the light doesn't get used by me anymore.


If they're properly made, they can be very smooth, like all of Modamag's Draco's and Drake's for example.



Etsu said:


> Strange. Titanium and steel have about the same hardness, so the threads shouldn't weaken with use. Maybe the threads developed some oxidation, which causes friction to rise? I'm guessing that bare titanium is going to oxidize more easily than stainless steel.


Titanium has a tendency to gall more than steel, and is very hard to polish.


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## pjandyho

Titanium tends to gall as what Kaichu has said. I used Krytox lube on mine and it seems to work a lot better on titanium twisties.


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## applevision

Thanks for the Krytox tip.
I love my new A0-Ti but agree--it's not very smooth, despite a good, deep cleaning and lubrication. I hope it gets better with use!


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## shelm

Today the related product, Ti too, was presented on CPFMP, the DQG Ti Tiny AAA "VII". I am wondering how smooth the threads are on that one!


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## jorn

Oooh. the new dqg supports 10440.


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## shelm

yeah, unprotected 10440.
i doubt that it hosts protected 10440.


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## yoyoman

pjandyho said:


> Titanium tends to gall as what Kaichu has said. I used Krytox lube on mine and it seems to work a lot better on titanium twisties.



Fyrstormer's lube is based on Krytox, which is supposed to be a superior lube for titanium.


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## jorn

Protected 10440`s are not that common. I own 0 protected, have seen 0. Have read about them so i know some exists, but got 4-5 different types of unprotected ones.
Just got a new aaa dqg 
Now i feel i need the newest one. Put the driver in a p0 and we got a tiny 200 lumen mulehead


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## Etsu

4sevens said:


> Ti is not planned for the p0. There isn't much advantage with Ti. We already minimized the material to the uttermost so weight savings is minimal. And with the way we finish the titanium it would look pretty much the same with the high polish and bead blast - though stainless will actually wear better due to the harder surface. In the end it would just inflate the price.



**cough** Atom A0 Titanium **cough**


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## kaichu dento

Etsu said:


> **cough** Atom A0 Titanium **cough**


What are you trying to say??? :tinfoil:

By the way, I'm loving my non-existent Ti Atom and a friend last night swore she had to have one. The low level is just great for casting a bit of moonlight ahead, giving a gentle light that allows you to see everything, but almost seems as if there's no light coming from anything, a light much less, but rather just that it's a little bit lighter out.


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## yoyoman

Ti has other benefits in addition to weight savings. And some disadvantages. The real upgrade, IMO, is the XP-G2. Mine is on the way...


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## jorn

Like what?
I buy my ti because it`s bling.


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## Zeruel

jorn said:


> Like what?
> I buy my ti because it`s bling.



Like this, this and this.


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## jorn

But insulates the heat, heavyer than alu. I have not yet seen a alu light corrode. Not even my bare alu lights will corrode. Do we need the strength? Havent seen too many reports of alu lights destroyed by dents etc, not one when i come to think of it. Scatch resistance? Ss is better.
I dont spill acid on my lights. Unless i want to strip some ano off 

So what benefits do a ti light really have?
I know of one. If i ever loose a finger, the docter can repalace it with my tain p0. And hopefully my body wont reject it  

I like titanium lights, and buy them because i like them. But i dont think the ti is a benefit for a flashlight. Alu is lighter, cheaper, and transfers heat way better. And it usually wont corrode, or break if you use your flashlight as a flashlight.


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## yoyoman

@jorn, you're right and you win.


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## Zeruel

jorn said:


> But insulates the heat, heavyer than alu. I have not yet seen a alu light corrode. Not even my bare alu lights will corrode. Do we need the strength? Havent seen too many reports of alu lights destroyed by dents etc, not one when i come to think of it. Scatch resistance? Ss is better.
> I dont spill acid on my lights. Unless i want to strip some ano off
> 
> So what benefits do a ti light really have?
> I know of one. If i ever loose a finger, the docter can repalace it with my tain p0. And hopefully my body wont reject it
> 
> I like titanium lights, and buy them because i like them. But i dont think the ti is a benefit for a flashlight. Alu is lighter, cheaper, and transfers heat way better. And it usually wont corrode, or break if you use your flashlight as a flashlight.




If alu suits your preference, hey, by all means.


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## jorn

Its not about what i prefer. It`s about the advantages the ti will really bring to a flashlight. Titanium is great for many things, but not everything.


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## kaichu dento

jorn said:


> ...heavyer than alu...


In the case of the Ao, it would have to float to be lighter than this one, the titanium is so thin. Feels like a feather - actually reminds me of an ARC-P, except there's two levels.

Fantastic work light - I used it tonight cutting in some new outlets and it beat the Haiku and V10-R Ti hands down for up close working light.


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## jorn

I know how extreme thin the preons are. Would not be possible to make in alu. Weight is no issue with most aaa sized lights. One of my favorites aaa is made of heavy metal  (copper). And it feels exellent with the added weight in my hand. But i dont think the ti p0 version has any advantage over the ss version. With that said, i would pick a ti version if i wanted a new preon. Just because its more "exlusive".


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## kaichu dento

I think I'm going to get another Ti and a couple SS versions, so I should know pretty soon. 

I love the way the SS LD01's felt, but really love this thing and the beam is one of the main reasons, but also the featherweight feel of it.


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## jorn

Hehe, i can resist the new ti version, for now atleast.. Couldent resist the new ti dqg. The added 10440 support and 10 sek boost to 210 lumens hit me in a soft spot. Bought my dqg nr 4 some weeks ago. Gave it away two days ago as a birtday gift. (Needed a excuse to buy the latest version.) If there are going to be a cheaper dqg in a ss version with the new driver, i plan to buy one and use the driver in a old polished ss p0 shell i got. A shiny, tiny, 210 lumen mule will be hard to beat


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## LlF

wonder if they are creating a Ti line called atom, atom a0, a1, a2


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## yoyoman

@Jorn - how do you get the light engine out? I was looking at my SS DQG and don't see how to get the LE out.
The new version does look good - 10440 support is nice.


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## jorn

Unscrew the pill and pop the light engine out. Just apply some pressure with a pen etc on the led side.
If you got the alu version, it`s the dqg l. Not the same design as the later versions. The preon p0 is similar to the dqg ll tiny and later dqg versions in ss.


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## yoyoman

I have the SS - corrected my post. I don't see how to unscrew the pill - don't see little holes to grip with tweezers or a retaining ring pliers.


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## ASheep

Quick PSA regarding modding the P0: Do not try to reflow the LED in a Preon P0 if you have a cold. 

I decided while I was at home sick from uni/work, I'd swap my P0's emitter to a HiCRI XPG. Everything was going well, I had the old LED out, and the new LED on the pads, the solder was just on the verge of flowing. I sneezed. One of those horrible violent sneak-up-on-you kind of sneezes that can only happen when you're sick. I tore the dome off the LED with my tweezers, ripped two chips off the bottom of the board with my soldering iron, and lost one of the resistors that sits next to the LED. The board is pretty much a write off. 

If anyone has a P0 board that they don't want because they are using a dqg board, PM me. I'll make sure next time I'm soldering microcircuits, I don't have a cold...

Cheers,
Alex


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## shelm

LlF said:


> wonder if they are creating a Ti line called atom, atom a0, a1, a2



i'd take an atom penlight!!


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## yoyoman

I received my AO. The XP-G2 is a nice upgrade and it is noticeably lighter than the SS PO. But the threads are not as smooth.


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## Etsu

Is the flood the same size on the A0 as the P0, or does the change in LED make a difference?


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## yoyoman

I'll have to do some white wall hunting tonight to answer that question. My initial impression (without directly comparing the 2) was the optic kept the flood about the same size. I felt the H had more output. I'm expecting longer runtime from the XP-G2, but I'm not going to do a test.

Edit: The beam (flood) are basically the same size due to the optic. The XP-G2 has slightly more lumens, basically the same lux and the tints are close (CW).


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## LlF

hello, i need some help, the LED part inside the head is misplaced. now the light is on when I can still see the o ring on the tube. and if I shake it, i can hear the glass lens move...

it happened after I applied some lube. but I never even touch the head unit, all i did was spray some lube on the battery tube and wipe it clean before screw it back together...

i tried to force it back in with a aaa battery+side, but i dont think it moved at all.,although I didn't use too much force i dont want to break it...

what should I do??


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## ASheep

LlF said:


> hello, i need some help, the LED part inside the head is misplaced. now the light is on when I can still see the o ring on the tube. and if I shake it, i can hear the glass lens move...
> 
> it happened after I applied some lube. but I never even touch the head unit, all i did was spray some lube on the battery tube and wipe it clean before screw it back together...
> 
> i tried to force it back in with a aaa battery+side, but i dont think it moved at all.,although I didn't use too much force i dont want to break it...
> 
> what should I do??




The emitter board screws into the head. To tighten it you'll need a very small set of needle nose pliers/modelling tweezers, or some very small split ring pliers. There are two very small notches in the edge of the board that you can use to screw the pill back in.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Alex


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## LlF

thank you thank you!!!

now knowing how it's assembled, I will have to be more mindful about not getting it wet

thank you~~~


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## jorn

Its waterproof If its tightened down and lubed well.


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## 4sevens

LlF said:


> wonder if they are creating a Ti line called atom, atom a0, a1, a2


Atom yes. Ti, no. The demand for ti lights isn't enough plus the price increase reduces our market size and becomes less competitive.

The A0-Ti is a limited run and we will most likely not make any more after this run.


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## joelbnyc

I still love my p0, it's my edc keychain light. I had a dqg tiny iv AAA which was brighter and nice neutral xpg2, but the preon p0 had better build quality, the smooth brushed steel body is perfect.

The dqg ti ii does look nice tho, and the 10440 option is pretty cool.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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