# New (used) lathe ...



## precisionworks

Going to look at one this afternoon ... photos to follow. If it looks as good as the seller says, it may follow me home - pending loan approval at the bank


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## 65535

So that's how you get all these cool tools, you spend the banks money. 

We demand pics.


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## wquiles

> We demand pics.



+1


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## darkzero

precisionworks said:


> pending loan approval


 
Holy crap! Sounds big or tool room quality! Can you at least give us a hint on the size? :twothumbs


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## precisionworks

I came, I saw, I bought 



> Can you at least give us a hint on the size?


This particular machine is no longer imported by U.S. Machine Tools, but is just a little lighter than their current 14x40. It is the same machine I posted in the "good deals" sticky in September of last year. This one is pretty close:

http://www.usindustrial.com/pdffiles/lathes/US1440.pdf

The current 14x40 has a 5.3hp motor & weighs 4100#. Mine has a 3.0hp motor & weighs about 3000#. Bed width is 9" from the top of the V to the back of the flat.

The foot brake is awesome ... when first depressed a click is heard as power is removed from all three phases. Then the friction brake stops the spindle in an instant.








Every US & Metric thread pitch I'll ever need, plus a lot of feed options.








At 40 rpm she'll allow running a big spade drill - 2" should be easy. At the highest speeds, the 5C collet will feel just right.








Needs a good clean up, but does have steady, follower, and taper attachment.








The taper attach.








If the hole looks big, it's *only *1.750" 








5" of ram travel, #4MT, weighs a few hundred pounds. Notice the big knockout slot used to disengage tooling or live centers. I just happen to have a #4MT Royal Heavy Duty live center ... which weighs over 20#.








Showing Sargon Gold DRO and 5C collet chuck.






Not a bad deal for $4k


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## darkzero

precisionworks said:


> I came, I saw, I bought


 
:laughing: 
Cool! :twothumbs 
So when's the party (as in when is it expected to come home)?

You must be excited! Oh maybe those who have seen, done, & used it all don't get that excited anymore with "new" purchases like this? :thinking:  

Well I'm excited for you. Just looking at the pics I can see many similarities in design that the 12x36 has with this. Can't wait to see it in your shop!


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## precisionworks

> when is it expected to come home


Planning on Thursday, pending disbursement of funds. Loan rates are killer low, like 3.5% for a 36 month finance. Work in the shop has picked up & I've worked 6 & 7 days a week for the past couple of months ... so my darling wife had no grounds to deny me this essential toy ... er, tool 

The entire base is cast iron, not a bit of sheet metal except the backsplash. There are pipe lifting holes cast into both ends of the bed, which will make it easy to fork lift onto a trailer (see first photo, just under the threading chart). Then she has to go no more than 20' to her final resting place.


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## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> Planning on Thursday, pending disbursement of funds. Loan rates are killer low, like 3.5% for a 36 month finance. Work in the shop has picked up & I've worked 6 & 7 days a week for the past couple of months ... so my darling wife had no grounds to deny me this essential toy ... er, tool
> 
> The entire base is cast iron, not a bit of sheet metal except the backsplash. There are pipe lifting holes cast into both ends of the bed, which will make it easy to fork lift onto a trailer (see first photo, just under the threading chart). Then she has to go no more than 20' to her final resting place.



Very cool. Congratulations :twothumbs


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## Torque1st

That taper attachment is nice! I don't have one so I am jealous.


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## StrikerDown

That is awesome, congrats Barry!:twothumbs

Looks a lot like my PM 14X40... with fewer oil leaks!

It has a D1-5 too! (I think)


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## precisionworks

> It has a D1-5 too!


Good eye, Ray 

I'll have to build a rotary phase converter, probably using a 10hp idler & a 1hp pony to spin the idler up. This lathe has so many electrical interlocks that a VFD is not an option. 



> That taper attachment is nice!


If you ever turn pipe threads, the TA is the ticket. 

The bigger lathe will allow me to do more jobs without having to send them out - which really cuts into profit.

I first saw this machine in 2003 at a friend's shop. He bought it new from Ted the Tool Man & used it primarily for collet jobs. About a year ago he bought a Haas TL-1 & sold the lathe to the current owner who is a retired machinist who tinkers & rebuilds machinery. He replace all of the Asian electrics with GE, Furnas & Siemens parts, reset all the switch engagement positions, aligned the drive gears visible at the back of the headstock, and probably spent two months in the process. In the current economy, the lathe was going nowhere fast - without the 5C collet chuck, he was asking $4500 last September, then recently came down to $4000. He finally threw in the 5C chuck which was all it took for me to say yes.

His newest project is a 15x50 Clausing Colchester, which will be up for sale in a few months


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## precisionworks

> Looks a lot like my PM 14X40..


Specs are very similar to the PM1440HD

http://precisionmatthews.com/PM1440HDlathe.html


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## Tom Anderson

Nice score! :twothumbs


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## precisionworks

Someone once said to budget half of the equipment cost for tooling ... which I knew before buying this machine 

The first order of business was a tool post, as the lathe comes with a pretty wimpy import wedge post. The best price I found on the Dorian Super Quick Change CXA First Time Buyer Set was $870 + $50 shipping. When I bought the AXA set last year, Rocky waived the shipping charges, which he did again today. Glad I got the loan for more than the amount needed


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## precisionworks

FWIW, the importer (Machinery Sales Co. in Memphis, TN) just brought in a used 16x40 from a trade school. About 15 years old & looks decent for $3850. Will post photos if there's any interest. Really similar to the current 14x40 (2" head stock bore, 5.3hp motor, etc.)


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## brickbat

precisionworks said:


> I'll have to build a rotary phase converter, probably using a 10hp idler & a 1hp pony to spin the idler up.



Another option would be to use starting capacitors in conjunction with a 'potential relay' or a timer to start the RPC - avoids the need for the pony motor...


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## darkzero

precisionworks said:


> threw in the 5C chuck


 
Are you getting that nice set of collets along with the rack? :naughty: 

Looks just like the racks in shop class!


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## precisionworks

> Are you getting that nice set of collets along with the rack?


I tried, but he really wanted to keep them ... no big loss, as they were a mixed set - some awful & some decent. I'll be looking for a Lyndex or Nikken set on eBay, but Hardinge would be just fine :twothumbs



> use starting capacitors in conjunction with a 'potential relay' or a timer


I've built auto-start RPC's as well as pony-start RPC's, and keep going back to the pony-start. The simplicity is so cool.

My plan is to build this one in the vertical plane with the idler low & the pony mounted above the idler on a hinged plate. Pull up on a handle attached to the pony to engage the V-belt, wait a moment until the idler reaches full speed, throw the disconnect, lower the handle & turn off the pony.

My disconnect is a new Cutler-Hammer 60A, 3p, fused unit - $97 delivered (eBay 120518627247). A friend has a 10hp idler that might cost me all of $20, and the 1hp pony was a take off from the Burr King. Wiring is as simple as it gets:





Auto-start RPC's are nice & compact, and pushing one button is all it takes. But potential relays & timer relays all fail at some point, which produces a loud noise as the starting cap explodes ...


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## darkzero

precisionworks said:


> no big loss, as they were a mixed set - some awful & some decent.


 
I see & understand. Having a mixed set like that would drive me crazy! :candle:




precisionworks said:


> Super Quick Change CXA First Time Buyer Set was $870 + $50 shipping.


 
Awesome! 

If you could, please post a picture of big daddy CXA next to little brother AXA! 

I see a lot more CXA & DA Dorian holders on ebay more than anything else so that's good. Curious, is CA one step bigger than CXA?


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## precisionworks

You're exactly right, Will, the A series is a step larger than the X series. Tool holders that fit a CX (or CXA) will not fit a CA. Photos below from the Aloris catalog











Don't get too excited by those prices ... they haven't been updated in ten years :nana:


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## precisionworks

I picked up the trailer last night, just after dark, and pulled it home. Really a nice car hauler, dual axle, surge brakes, etc. Rain was supposed to be in the area this morning, but it was all gone by 0700. I waited a couple of hours to let the roads get dry & went to pick up the machine. The seller called a local business with a *big* fork truck, at least 10,000# capacity with 6' long forks. The operator took his time & set the machine down in the front of the trailer, right in the middle.







The 4'x8' sheet of 3/4" plywood spans a large open area, plus it helps to keep the machine from sliding. We drove home at a slow pace, 45 mph tops, but had only 15 miles to travel. Off came the straps.






That big trailer makes the lathe look little 

Walked over to my lawn mower dealer & borrowed his Nissan fork truck. Controls are identical to the fork truck at work, with lift, tilt & shift being just where I'm used to. With the lifting bars at each end & one sling on each fork it was easy to pick the machine off the trailer.






Getting the lathe into the shop took the longest time, as my overhead door opens only 84". We would move it a little, reposition the straps on the forks, move it a little more, etc. Surely is a relief to get it down & in the shop 






The machine came with the original owner's manual & the original bill of sale. Purchase date was 09-01-2003. The correct model number, according to the manual, is 1440-Z ... unlike the 1340 that someone put on the front panel. I'll take care of that


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## csa

Wow, very nice! Congrats on that purchase, I hope it serves you well. We're all envious.


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## wquiles

Looks great - thanks for the nice photos :twothumbs


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## darkzero

Awesome, the party has started! 
Love your machine shop sign!


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## wquiles

Barry, the thing I like the most about your new lathe is that solid, one-piece, iron stand. It looks totally solid. rigid, and stable. That is the type of stand I would like to have on my PM1236 - definitely jealous :naughty:


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## precisionworks

> solid, one-piece, iron stand. It looks totally solid. rigid, and stable.


 That was a big selling point for me, as so many 14x40 machines are a lighter weight lathe set on a stamped steel or welded steel cabinet. The Enco 14x40, shown below, is typical and weighs just 1900#. Not bad when parts are smaller & well balanced, but not too stable on larger parts set up off center in the 4 jaw.






Contrast that machine to the PM1440HD, also cast iron base, with a net weight of 2750#. It's lot easier to get a fine finish on a part with that extra weight below the lathe, helping to dampen the vibration.






Ted, who helped broker this deal, met me at the seller's shop & helped with the rigging, loading & strapping down. He met me at my shop to help unload & get the machine far enough inside the door that the door would close. Funny thing is that Ted sold that machine to Bob in 2003, helped arrange the sale from Bob to Jim in 2009, and helped me buy the lathe from Jim this week. I still have to rearrange the machine room, run a 240 volt circuit, build the RPC, etc., before she can make chips :sigh:


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## StrikerDown

That is a big difference in weight, my PM 1440 isn't the Heavy Duty version, it's more like the Enco model. The upside is it is way more machine than I anticipate ever needing. So far just using it for hobby gunsmithing, barrel work, screws, etc.

You never know what your customers will bring through the door so it will be nice for you to have the added capability. 

Surely a heavy beast to shove around the shop!


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## precisionworks

> post a picture of big daddy CXA next to little brother AXA!













If anyone's interested in the complete AXA set, it's for sale at $490 delivered ($100 less than I paid last November):
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dorian-Quick-Ch...QQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item3caa833092



> Surely a heavy beast to shove around the shop!


That it is ... it's in the welding/grinding room right now, until the South Bend can find another home. Then I'll have to borrow the forklift again and move it the final 50'. A pinch-point pry bar (60" long) will move it the last few inches.


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## precisionworks

Hard to believe that 7 days have passed & I have not touched the new machine ... planned to start on the RPC early this morning but got an urgent call from a customer & worked there til noon. Got home & up drives the Brown Truck with a few goodies:






Enco had a 20% off sale & I picked up the four Aloris holders - about the same price for new holders as eBay sellers get for used ones. The three CXA1 blocks hold tooling with a 3/4" shank, and the CXA4 block holds a 1" boring bar or (with bushing installed) a 3/4" bar.

The RTW tool holders were a bargain at $23.95 each on the Grainger.com website. Couldn't pass up inserts at $2.95 each. Still need inserts for one holder but it's a common (cheap) shape.


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## precisionworks

Last Sunday was the first time I was able to get back into the shop & the rotary phase converter (RPC) was Job #1:






Not much to describe about the RPC build - cut & weld a frame out of 1" square tube & 1.5" angle, add a pair of strap hinges so the pony motor can be lifted to tension the belt, adjust the pitch diameter on the small sheave so the rpm of the idler motor is about 1800 ... my optical tach shows 1812 rpm which is close enough 

I'll post a photo of the disconnect when it's wired in, but here's the wiring diagram:





Ted phoned to tell me that he has the South Bend sold & that we needed to get it bolted to a pallet for shipment. He & I pushed the lathe to the overhead door, lifted it a few inches with the forklift & set it down on the pallet. Then the real work began - getting the new machine moved over to it's final location. The forklift made it pretty easy, although I held my breath the entire time :huh:

She's now within about two feet of final position, but I wanted to clean, oil & adjust everything before moving her against the wall:
















If you look closely at the photo above, there are at least a dozen oil buttons, one for each sliding surface. After pumping all these full & adjusting all the gibs the machine has that "just right" feel to the controls.






The red knob is FWD/OFF/REV and has to be pushed back before moving either up (FWD) or down (REV).

Everything adjusted out correctly, except the carriage lock lever. Six years of use had caused the lever to swing too far around, ending up in a hard to use position. A few tests with shim stock showed that a .015" shim washer was needed to position the handle so it pointed toward the tail stock when unlocked. Mechanically, that was the only mod I had to make.

So far so good. Planning to wire it in today & move it back to the wall.


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## wquiles

Very cool - getting closer and closer to cutting chips


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## Tom Anderson

Looks good! :thumbsup:


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## darkzero

Tom Anderson said:


> Looks good! :thumbsup:


 
+1


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## precisionworks

Sunday was "rearrange the machine room" day ... everything was moved toward the overhead door so the lathe would have room to chuck a long piece that projected beyond the left side of the machine. Nothing light in here, except 42# Tasha (who moves easily  )






The lathe still needed to be moved about 12" to the right and 36" toward the wall. The forklift got it this far, using 4x4 posts to extend the reach of the forks, but the forklift would not fit through the door. The pinch bar moved the machine about 1/4" at a time, too slow for where it had to go. Finally, I lowered the two jackscrews under the tail stock end & placed 3/4" diameter pipe rollers under the base. Same thing at the head stock. This made it easy to push the lathe into position. The photo below shows the plates that act as temporary pads. These allowed precision leveling the machine so initial test cuts can be made.











Now it's time to run wire from the load center to the disconnect (just behind the DRO) then down to the RPC, then to the machine.

Hopefully today


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## wquiles

Excellent progress!

The lathe looks like it "belongs" in there


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## precisionworks

Any contractor will tell you that a change order adds cost & time to a job ... and that's what happened 

Instead of mounting the disconnect where shown in the last photo, I decided to move it to the far end of the room so the RPC noise would be less noticeable. I've owned a few commercial converters (Phase-A-Matic, Ronk, Cedarburg, ARCO) that were pretty quiet. One, a Phase-O-Matic from http://karammfg.com/ was louder than the Hammers of Hell ... but it had hundreds of hours use before I bought it. Even with new bearings & retaining compound to tighten up the worn end bells, it would wake the dead :huh:

This meant moving the disconnect (a ten minute job) and building a stand for the RPC (half a day including interruptions by paying customers). Plus it meant buying 50' of 10 gauge, 4 conductor, SOOJ rubber covered cord. The local hardware store sells this for $3.65 per foot, while my electrical supply charge $1.22 per foot - which meant an hour of driving to get the lower cost cord. 

Figured out pretty quickly that hardware store fuses, the 250 volt kind, will not work in a 600 volt disconnect ... one more trip to the supply house 

Wrapped up last night about 8:00 with only final wiring to do, probably an hour's work. Will post photos when done, either this evening or more likely tomorrow evening. Certainly a different experience than moving a smaller lathe into place - that was plug-n-play. This is work.


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## wquiles

Why was it that the VFD was not an option?


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## precisionworks

Too many items would have to be removed, spindle brake would not work as well without adding a large number of braking resistors, higher cost ($400 vs. $100), etc. If you remember when Brian (Mirage_Man) bought his PM lathe, he considered a VFD. His wiring, pictured below, is nearly identical to my machine - except that my lathe has more interlocks 






Not saying that it cannot be done, but it's so cheap & easy to build a pony start RPC that the VFD is not an attractive option. Plus, I don't believe that I'll ever need to go lower than 40 rpm nor higher than 2000 rpm. In this instance, a freq drive doesn't offer enough benefits to justify the cost & time involved.

FWIW, Brian also chose a RPC to power his machine.


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## wquiles

Gotcha, I see where you are coming from. Certainly the cost is a big deterrent

My PM1236 has a similarly-looing control panel (actually I "think" that is my own wiring pannel, not Brians'), but after having done two VFD's, I don't feel the wiring will be a challenge since I already spent time re-drawing the electrical circuit/diagram for my own lathe and it now "looks" simple - I really understand what each wire does, where it goes, etc.. In fact the VFD solution for the lathe will be much simpler and elegant, at least to me as an Electrical Engineer. I just need to save enough funds for the VFD and the breaking resistor package, which as you know for a 5HP motor (10HP drive) is not a trivial amount


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## Per-Sev

Sweet score, I was a machinist for 16 years and the lathe was my favorite machine to run. I have always wanted one in my basement but never got a round to it, your's would work but I don't think it would fit down my stairs. I would not know what make first. Good luck wish it was mine.


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## precisionworks

> I don't feel the wiring will be a challenge



I'll PayPal gas money to get to The Heartland & you can redo mine :nana:

My machine has an access door interlock, foot brake interface, jog switch, coolant pump that needs to run at full speed regardless of motor speed, E-stop, plus the "normal" Run/Stop/Reverse switches. It would take me longer to figure this out than to build the RPC.



> your's would work but I don't think it would fit down my stairs


Moving 3000# of iron on smooth concrete was a challenge - moving that same load down a flight of stairs would be a bear. The machine could be broken down, but I'd guess that the stripped base would go over 1000#, probably closer to 1500#.


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## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> My machine has an access door interlock, foot brake interface, jog switch, coolant pump that needs to run at full speed regardless of motor speed, E-stop, plus the "normal" Run/Stop/Reverse switches. It would take me longer to figure this out than to build the RPC.


Yup, same for my lathe:

Door interlock - check!
Foot Brake interlock - check!
Jog Switch - check!
Coolant Pump - already disconnected completely!
Run/Stop/Reverse and E-switches - check!

I am more than fully aware that you are running your shop as a business, so in your case "time is money". As you know for me this is still a hobby, so having the machine out of commission for a couple of days or two weeks is nothing to me. Doing the VFD conversion on the lathe will be just another great learning project - after all, it is "your" fault that I am now looking at my 3rd 3-pahse VFD project :devil:


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## precisionworks

> it is "your" fault that I am now looking at my 3rd 3-pahse VFD project


I'm considering VFD #5 (for the mill) but still have a few tooling expenses left for the bigger lathe


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## precisionworks

Finally 







A stand was welded from 2"x2" angle, with two pieces of 3/4" plywood glued & screwed together, then covered by a tempered Masonite top. A shelf support was welded in so a plywood shelf can be installed.






The RPC rests on a sheet of rubber gasket material that is stapled to the Masonite. U-bolts hold the motor to the top.






The rubber pad keeps the motor slightly dampened, and the U-bolts each have a rubber sleeve to avoid metal to metal contact.






The disconnect wiring is pretty straight forward.

Turned on the pony motor, brought the idler to full speed, threw the disconnet handle to the ON position & the big motor never missed a beat. Zero starting surge, no light dimming at all. The pony is then turned off & the belt is flipped off the pony. The big idler is as quiet as any commercial RPC I've ever used - from about 6' away, only fan noise can be heard.

Set the lathe to for 1000 rpm & pulled the red handle up - she came to full speed in an instant  Same result at 1450 & 2000 rpm, although 2000 rpm sounds like an F-16 on 'burner. Ran through all the lower gears as well, and engaged the compound feeds in different positions. I wire up quite a few 3ph motors at work, plus a few more in my shop, and the odds of correct motor rotation are 50-50 (meaning that two leads have to be swapped to reverse rotation). For whatever reason, this one rotated in the correct direction 

No chips yet, as the T-nut has to be machined ... hopefully Friday or Saturday.

Here's a photo from the PM forum on a really neat design. To quote the builder "Foot pedal engages friction clutch, gravity disengages." I was going to use this design but could not find the photo until today:


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## Torque1st

AFAIK -If your pony motor is not a capacitor run motor I believe you can safely couple it permanently to your idler. It just provides additional inertial mass at that point.

Then you can put a belt guard over the unit before it grabs a shop rag or apron.


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## precisionworks

You're right, the pony could be set up as a "normal" belt drive with tensioned belt & belt guard, but there are some reasons not to do that. Even switched off but still belted, the pony fan makes almost as much noise as the idler, and the combination is loud. Parasitic drag from the pony is another issue, as is bearing wear (although that would be tiny). 

Not sure that I was clear on the start up procedure, but the pony is first switched on & then lifted back on the hinges so the belt is tensioned. The disconnect is thrown to the ON position & the pony is turned off & returned to the "resting" position. The slack belt, being driven now by the idler, flips itself off the sheaves & rolls over to the door, leaving nothing to catch on except the smooth sheave on the idler. Since no one is ever in the shop when the lathe is being used, it should not be a concern.

It would be different if there were any employees, but there have never been (nor will there ever be) anyone on the payroll. OSHA is a non issue as long as there are no employees.


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## StrikerDown

Is that true 3 phase going to the lathe? 

I don't understand how you can get there with L1 and L2 being tied directly to the T1 and T2. It seems like they,T1 and T2 would retain the 180 degree phase relationship of L1 and L2 and T3 would fall somewhere in between.

Obviously it works! I'm just confused never having seen this set up before! :shakehead

Edit:

Google is a wonderful thing:

http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/rotary_converter/

Looks like this provides unbalanced 3 phase. Works fine where you don't need balanced 3 ph, it's just a little different than the usual 3 ph found in commercial applications.


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## Torque1st

precisionworks said:


> You're right, the pony could be set up as a "normal" belt drive with tensioned belt & belt guard, but there are some reasons not to do that. Even switched off but still belted, the pony fan makes almost as much noise as the idler, and the combination is loud. Parasitic drag from the pony is another issue, as is bearing wear (although that would be tiny).
> 
> Not sure that I was clear on the start up procedure, but the pony is first switched on & then lifted back on the hinges so the belt is tensioned. The disconnect is thrown to the ON position & the pony is turned off & returned to the "resting" position. The slack belt, being driven now by the idler, flips itself off the sheaves & rolls over to the door, leaving nothing to catch on except the smooth sheave on the idler. Since no one is ever in the shop when the lathe is being used, it should not be a concern.



I understand how it works. I have seen the application a number of times.

Since the pony is only intermittent duty the fan can be removed so that is a non-issue. 

Chasing the belt across the room and having to pick it up and store it etc would be an irritation to me. But that is just me.

The pony motor bearings would be a tiny drag but the belt hysteresis losses would be a greater loss. It is insignificant in the application tho. My build uses a coupling instead.

You may be surprised what that "smooth" sheave on the idler can catch. Especially if for some reason a person stumbled against it. I worry about my personal safety.


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## precisionworks

> Looks like this provides unbalanced 3 phase.



Without balancing caps, the outputs are unequal. T1 & T2 read 125v (to ground) while T3, the manufactured leg, reads 170v, pretty typical of any RPC that has no balance caps. It's easy enough to add balance caps & get all three voltages within a few volts of each other, and that does generate less motor heating, but 3ph motors could care less what they are fed - think of a 3ph motor as a large rotating inductor. Feed it some approximation of 3ph and they start fast & run with the the same power & torque output that commercially generated 3ph provides.



> Works fine where you don't need balanced 3 ph


CNC controls are the one area that requires utility quality power. Neither an RPC or a VFD provide this. The VFD output has 3 phases that are 120 degrees out of sequence from each other, with equal voltage, but VFD waveform is far from sinusoidal:






That's the college textbook version, which isn't too ugly. Hook a scope to a freq drive & you'll see this:






There are, at present, just three ways to obtain commercial quality 3ph. First is to buy it from your utility - which would have cost me $5k in 2003, probably closer to $10k today. Second is to purchase a 3ph generator - a small 10 kw unit (20 hp gas engine drive) is about $5k today. Third is to purchase a digital phase converter like a Phase Perfect - $3k for a 10 hp unit.

Or build a RPC for a hundred bucks :nana:



> You may be surprised what that "smooth" sheave on the idler can catch.


You're right, it does present some hazard. I'll see if I can come up with a quick detach cover, which shouldn't be too hard.



> Chasing the belt across the room ...


It stops as soon as it hits the overhead door, about 36" away. Surprisingly, the pony was set for CCW rotation for just that reason


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## KC2IXE

MOST VFDs provide non sinusoidal

Back in the 1980s/early 1990s I worked for an electonics company that made some VFDs - if you had one of theres, you wouldn't be worried at all - you could switch the load on and off without blowing the VFD, it could handle -90 to +90 loads (aka everything from pure capacitive to pure inductive loads), and had a THD on the sine wave that requires some pretty fancy gear to measure (like .001 THD and less)

Of course, back then, it had a high 6 digit price tag, but what the military wanted, the military got


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## precisionworks

Started today by jacking up the lathe to install the Mason mounts. Wrench the left jackscrews all the way down, place as much packing as possible under the mid jackscrews & wrench those down, etc. Just needed to raise the base 2", as that's the minimum height of the Mason mount plus hardware:






Once the base was up, a 2"x4" steel block was placed under both corners. The jackscrews by themselves would probably hold up the base, but I wouldn't put my hand under the base without the 2x4 blocks.

The tail stock end was lots easier ... position the 60" pinch bar under the end, press down, up comes the base. My knee held the pinch bar in position while the 2x4 blocks were slid under the base:






After all six mounts were installed, the lathe was precision leveled. Mounted a 2" diameter piece of 1144 Stressproof in the 3 jaw and took a very light cut over a six inch section. Both ends measured within .0002" of each other, so no head stock adjustment was needed.


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## wquiles

Alright !!!

Cutting chips


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## precisionworks

Only one issue so far - the machine came with a 3-jaw chuck (6") and a 4-jaw chuck (8") that have through holes smaller than the head stock bore :sick2: 

With the D1-5 mount, it's easy to find a 3-jaw 8" and a 4-jaw 10". The 8" chuck has a 2.15" hole, while the 10" opening is 2.55". EBay yielded a nice looking 4-jaw (Bison 7-853-1035). Cost was well under half of the best new price on the web. There are lots of 8" 3-jaws on eBay, but I decided to step up to the plate & get a nice one - Bison 7-866-0800 - Set-Tru, forged steel (not cast iron like the 10") with two piece jaws. Got the lowest price from my friend Rocky at Ajax Industries. Had a balance in my PayPal account that helped cover the $1200 for the two ($330 + $870). Both current chucks will go on eBay which will reduce the cost of the new ones.

And I still have to buy a few tool holders 
For the CNMG-43x insert, the most popular tool holder is the MCLNR. I found a neat one made by LMT Fette at industryrecycles.com. Coolant through (Fette calls it Direct Flow) so the coolant hits the cutting edge. The holder plus 10 inserts was $58 delivered, about $20 cheaper than the same item from their eBay store


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> There are lots of 8" 3-jaws on eBay, but I decided to step up to the plate & get a nice one - Bison 7-866-0800 - Set-Tru, forged steel



Money well spent. I still say that although a lot of money, they pay back due to how simple and how much less time it takes to do precession work (hey, isn't that your user name? :devil: ). I don't even know when it was the last time I had to center anything on my Bison Set-Tru. Once aligned (mine is set to less than 0.0005"), you basically forget about it. Even when swapping parts around, the center is so close that you have to run your thumbnail to detect the slight difference. And if you mark your piece (say aligned with the "0" in the chuck), when when you remove the piece to measure and later re-chuck it aligned with your mark, you are back "spot on" where you were - simply amazing :thumbsup:


----------



## precisionworks

You probably guessed that the 6-jaw Set-Tru was also on the wish list ... but a heart transplant costs less


----------



## darkzero

wquiles said:


> Money well spent.
> 
> I don't even know when it was the last time I had to center anything on my Bison Set-Tru. Once aligned (mine is set to less than 0.0005"), you basically forget about it.


 
Awesome, I agree with Will. :thumbsup:

On top of that, I've removed the Bison chuck a few times to use the other chucks & to my surprise after put the Bison back on, run out is exactly what is was before taking it off. Of course I have marks on the spindle & backplate to reinstall it in the same position. I thought for sure I would have to make some minor adjustments when reinstalling the Bison.




precisionworks said:


> Got the lowest price from my friend Rocky at Ajax Industries. Had a balance in my PayPal account that helped cover the $1200 for the two ($330 + $870).


 
Very cool. Although not the great price Will & Brian paid back then, I also got my Bison 6 jaw Set Tru from Ajax Industries. Paid $960 shipped from Toolmex including the Bison adapter. They had the same deal for the 8" 6 jaw for $1200. They always seem to have the best deals. :twothumbs


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> For the CNMG-43x insert, the most popular tool holder is the MCLNR. I found a neat one made by LMT Fette at industryrecycles.com. Coolant through (Fette calls it Direct Flow) so the coolant hits the cutting edge. The holder plus 10 inserts was $58 delivered, about $20 cheaper than the same item from their eBay store



That is the same exact one that you modded for me - still using it today as my workhorse metal remover, and so far with the Al-specifc inserts this holder gives me the best finish on Al and on Copper :thumbsup:


----------



## precisionworks

> I also got my Bison 6 jaw Set Tru from Ajax Industries.


+1

I always speak with Rocky, who really tries to give their lowest price. By going direct to the distributor, no eBay fees are taken out of their payment and the item costs less. The Bison items have gone up in price as more people realize the very high level of quality. My new Set-Tru cost little more than any number of used chucks (Buck, Cushman, etc.).

Also, if you search eBay through Bing.com, there's as much as an 8% discount on Buy-It-Now items. I thought about this two days after buying both chucks


----------



## precisionworks

The Brown Truck left two packages yesterday, both from Bison/TMX 

Machine work on the parts is superb ... both sides of the back plate have been Blanchard ground (by a rotary surface grinder) so that both sides are dead flat & perfectly parallel. The back surface of the chuck received the same treatment. Since my spindle nose is also Blanchard ground, there should be nearly zero axial run out ... although the indicator showed .0001"






Close up view of the back plate:






Before mounting the back plate to the spindle nose, I pulled all the locking cams for cleaning, deburring, and greasing. No sense taking a chance on a leftover piece of grit scoring one of the new locking studs. Two of the studs had to be backed out one turn for proper cam engagement, but nothing else. A piece of Thomson linear shafting was used to dial in the radial run out ... about .0002" to .0003" TIR - well under the .0004" that Bison guarantees 

I rechucked the 2" bar of 1144 Stressproof and took a couple of very light cuts with the end unsupported. The DCGT-32.50.5 from Rani Tool was used for this test as it is super sharp. Where the diameters had showed .0002" difference before, the DCGT left a surface that had only .0001" (or a little less) difference from end to end.






Even with a decent sized part in the chuck, there's still room for more:











On edit 04-19-2010 - the 4-jaw Bison came on the Brown Truck ... the driver seems a little weary these days ... 











Those are the photos from the eBay listing so they lack some detail, but the chuck has almost zero wear. Purchased from Rochester Machinery Suppliers http://stores.ebay.com/ROCHESTER-MACHINERY-SUPPLIERS-INC

I phoned last week & spoke with a guy named John - who owns the business. The UPS calculator on eBay showed $88, which he said was way more than it should have calculated. I had John ship & bill to my UPS account & the cost was $26.27. The chuck arrived in a custom built plywood box, 3/4" thick, screwed together on all sides & strapped with steel banding - my kind of shipper. A superb company & person to deal with


----------



## Mettee

....man that looks nice I am envious. That is the set up, or the type of set up I want at home. Soon I hope.


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> A piece of Thomson linear shafting was used to dial in the radial run out ... about .0002" to .0003" TIR - well under the .0004" that Bison guarantees


Those Bison parts are awesome :thumbsup:


----------



## darkzero

precisionworks said:


> Machine work on the parts is superb ... both sides of the back plate have been Blanchard ground (by a rotary surface grinder) so that both sides are dead flat & perfectly parallel. The back surface of the chuck received the same treatment. Since my spindle nose is also Blanchard ground, there should be nearly zero axial run out ... although the indicator showed .0001"


 
Very nice! Beautiful!

I've seen various posts online where people make a finishing pass on the adapter before mounting the chuck. When I got mine & saw that both surfaces of the chuck & adapter were ground (thanks for letting us know what type of type of grinding this is called) as well as the spindle like yours, I choose not to & mounted as is right out the box. I also get very low runout under what Bison guarantees. I have no regrets making the last minute decision on the Bison over the Pratt Burnerd.


----------



## 65535

That's a purdy chuck, almost too purdy to use. Haha. I have to say that Bison stuff is looking amazing. Mmmm Tool Pron.


----------



## precisionworks

> people make a finishing pass on the adapter before mounting the chuck.



Some chucks are "plain back", meaning that a rough machined or partially finished adapter has to be final finished to fit the chuck. The Bison adapter is fully finished and needs just a wipe down with a clean cloth. The only way to improve Blanchard grinding is with Blanchard regrinding :nana:







The steel plates in the top photo are resting on a circular electromagnet. After the parts are positioned, the magnet is energized and the rotary head moves into position, and moves over the parts while flood coolant carries away the swarf. The chuck rotates in the opposite direction, which gives a Blanchard ground surface a unique signature. It isn't uncommon to specify dimensional tolerances to ±.001", parallelism to .001", and flatness to .001".


----------



## precisionworks

This afternoon was spent setting all the tools to center height & taking some test cuts. The photo below shows a CNMG-432 set for .250" DOC, 1450 rpm, .007 IPR (which gives a chip .010" thick). Speed is just about perfect, as the chip peels off tan and drops blue. On camera flash was used to freeze the motion.

.007 IPR sounds pretty slow, until that number is multiplied by 1450. 10" per minute, or 1" carriage travel every 6 seconds - seems fast as the tool approaches a brand new chuck  The machine didn't slow down or protest in any way at the .250" DOC ... I think it will handle quite a lot more.






While the cam locks were out of the spindle nose, the witness marks were cut deeper with a thin cutoff wheel in a Dremel. A red Markal ball paint marker was used to fill the groove:


----------



## StrikerDown

WooHoo... we're having fun now!

That sucker takes a big bite Barry. I must be too timid, have yet to bog it down or break tooing!

At least on the lathe!


----------



## darkzero

precisionworks said:


>


 
Awesome pic! Reminds me of a tooling catalog. 

Can I make chips like that with my lathe?


----------



## darkzero

StrikerDown said:


> have yet to .... break tooing!


 
I broke today at our first attempt at making an alcohol stove. Nothing major though, just a couple of inserts & some battle scars. Still not a good feeling & pretty scary (the first time....). 













I didn't learn my lesson until I broke again.... 











My most concern was there was no damage to chuck or the tool post. Foot brake came in real handy! 

Learned some valuble lessons today. Stubborness, ignorance, & stupidity should not be mixed & I now know chatter can be dangerous. 

I think Barry has said something like this before, if something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't..... & it wasn't. :laughing:


----------



## precisionworks

That is scary looking ... like something Freddie Kruger might use for dismemberment


----------



## 65535

Problem with thin parts is even though chatter is dangerous getting a cut on a part can cause enough force to shred it too. It's a fine line between too little and too much feed. Stay safe guys.


----------



## StrikerDown

Dark,

Looks like you were trying to turn beer cans... after emptying them! 

What is the workpiece, before?


----------



## Tom Anderson

darkzero said:


> I broke today at our first attempt at making an alcohol stove. Nothing major though, just a couple of inserts & some battle scars. Still not a good feeling & pretty scary (the first time....).



Been there. Done that.

It reminds me of the Valenite® cutting tool applications class I attended where the instructor kept repeating "Rigidity! Rigidity! Rigidity!"

If you _really_ want to understand the word "frustrating", you need to try grooving 6AL4V bar with .019" wide Nikcole grooving inserts.

Interrupted cuts, of course! :devil:


----------



## PhotonFanatic

darkzero said:


> I broke today at our first attempt at making an alcohol stove. Nothing major though, just a couple of inserts & some battle scars. Still not a good feeling & pretty scary (the first time....).



Will,

Can I ask what you were doing there, i.e., turning down, grooving, or parting off?


----------



## darkzero

Beer cans, lol. Well almost...

They were stainless steel bottles. I was attempting to part of the top.

I didn't have a good feeling about it but it seemed thick enough although they weren't all that thick & the 6-jaw seemed to have a decent hold without deforming too much. I've actually parted cans before but the thick Japansese cans that are aluminum, some of you might be familiar with these like the Asahi beer cans. US doesn't use cans like this.

I started off using a Manchester parting tool but it didn't seem to do to well so I switched to the thinner & sharper Nickole tool. It was making progress but slow at 180 rpm. I was feeding as slow as possible without rubbing the cutting edge. Then I changed to the next highest speed to make faster progress & after a few seconds & too much feed, BOOM!

A bit scared but I felt like it would have been possible so I tried again. This time I used the very tip of a CCGT insert which is very sharp. I planned on just scoring it deep enough so I could then just snap the top half off. Well the second one was as concentric as the first one since the bottles are roll formed. I got to the point where I was just about to poke through, it started to chatter then dug in & blew. 

Only had two of them on hand but after that I wasn't willing to try again. Was really no need to cut it on the lathe, we should of just cut it by hand or tried cutting it on the bandsaw (needs a blade change though) but we're guys & had to use power tools since they were there. :laughing:

Good learning experience though.


----------



## PhotonFanatic

Aside from the thin-walled item itself, the problem was with your set-up and what you were trying to do, i.e., part off-- you were doing the cutting too far away from the chuck. The best way to part off, on a lathe, is to do the cutting right next to the jaws--unless you have a steady rest, but that's not ideal, either. If you can't do that, then you will have to do it another way, i.e., band saw, hacksaw, jeweler's saw, whatever.


You can easily surmise how I've learned this. :devil:


----------



## darkzero

PhotonFanatic said:


> Aside from the thin-walled item itself, the problem was with your set-up and what you were trying to do, i.e., part off-- you were doing the cutting too far away from the chuck. The best way to part off, on a lathe, is to do the cutting right next to the jaws--unless you have a steady rest, but that's not ideal, either. If you can't do that, then you will have to do it another way, i.e., band saw, hacksaw, jeweler's saw, whatever.
> 
> 
> You can easily surmise how I've learned this. :devil:


 
Thanks Fred. Yes I am well aware & was at the time. I've already learned this & by experience the first few weeks of having my other lathe. My instructor also drills this into our heads. 

That's where the "stubborness & ignorance" came into play. 



darkzero said:


> Stubborness, ignorance, & stupidity should not be mixed


 
Even if I was cutting that particular piece close to the jaws, the grip was questionable & I think it still probably would have happened. I think I would have had better luck if the piece was pretty concentric. That's part of where the "Stupidity" came into play.

I also thought about turning a larger "bull nose" type piece (the one I previously made for something else was a tad too small) to use with a live center but we were short on time & this is not exactly a method that should be used for parting long pieces.

I think your idea may have worked used a steady rest, don't remember if mine is that large but it may have not worked well because of the thin wall issue again.

This is only my second major mishap (more to come I'm sure) & the first on the new lathe. Only difference is I was well aware of what might would have happened this time and it did but I did not expect that much of an outcome.


----------



## precisionworks

> This is only my second major mishap


Hardly even that. Mishaps occur when you end up with less than ten fingers or ten toes, two eyes or two ears, or a badly broken machine. I was running the lathe about twenty feet from a co worker who was torching a machine frame while standing with his toes underneath the frame. As he made the last cut, the frame came down on his left foot ... about ten thousand pounds.

That is a major mishap :shakehead

Broken tooling is part of the learning process. It helps define acceptable from unacceptable.


----------



## gadget_lover

I did a similar task. I cut the top off a 3 inch diameter plastic pill bottle. A bullnose center supported the far end. The first bottle looked a lot like your bottle when the parting tool snagged.

For the third try, I mounted the dremel to the QCTP and used the small circular saw blade while running the lathe very slow. This produced a very nice edge. I could have used the dremel cut-off disk too.

Wish I had the nice setup you have. Sigh.

Daniel


----------



## Tom Anderson

I've snapped off more drills, mills, taps, and inserts when breaking through the last few thousandths of the cut than at any other time.

Chalk it up to experience and try not to let it discourage you too much! :thumbsup:


----------



## precisionworks

I wanted to pull the 3-jaw & install the 4-jaw but the weight of both chucks (about 60#) was a concern. Oily, greasy, round & awkward, either would be easy to drop. I thought about possible solutions and came up with this:






The hardwood base is wide enough to rest on one flat & one V. A flat bar is lag screwed to the base and a rod is welded to the flat bar. The base is pushed forward so the tube enters the head stock bore, and the chuck is then moved toward the cam lock holes:











When removing the chuck, the bar is long enough so that one hand can be placed on either side of the chuck. The large diameter bar makes it lots easier to pick up & move the chuck:


----------



## Tom Anderson

^^^^^
That's a great solution to handling heavy chucks! :twothumbs


----------



## precisionworks

Thanks, Tom 

The Set-Tru is a killer to mount & dismount, as there is next to nothing to grab onto. The Set-Tru back plate adds 1.20" to the total chuck length, and the back is smooth except for the cam lock studs. Lifting a greased pig must feel almost the same 

The 10" Bison 4-jaw is 1.20" shorter because it's a direct mount chuck & has four large recessed areas cast into the back - it's so easy to hold that I may not use the chuck helper. The weight seems better distributed, probably because of the built in "hand holds" that allow a secure grip, as well as the shorter overall length.

The helper also makes a decent storage stand, as long as the chuck is placed directly over the wooden base. It will get lots of use with the Set-Tru.


----------



## precisionworks

A bittersweet day ... the last bit of tooling arrived 

Notice the Blanchard grinding on the back surface:














Pretty decent on the front side as well:











Even the jaws are Blanchard ground:







My UPS driver was being humorous when he said that even United Parcel Shredders could not destroy the shipping box  There were two metal strapping bands around the box, in addition to more screws than I could count. $28 to get it half way across the USA, and no extra charge for the wood box. One of the best deals I've found on eBay, $300 for a chuck that sells for $650+. Best guess is that is was mounted on a spindle & used half a dozen times, if that. Most 4-jaws are pretty loose in the fit of jaw to body, but these are tap in tight 

I posted earlier that the recesses cast into the back of the chuck would make it easy to mount ... wrong  It's a bit easier to grab than the Set-True, and the front to back is shorter, but the chuck helper is now serving double duty. 60# of iron is easy to swing into place ... in my dreams.


----------



## wquiles

Nice looking chuck you got in there!


----------



## darkzero

wquiles said:


> Nice looking chuck you got in there!


 
+1 & a sweet deal!

I've been looking at a replacement 4 jaw too, the stock 4 jaw is not so great. I guess direct mount for a 4 jaw would be best & would eliminate the extra overhang. 

Barry, what are the other 4 slots for that are on these Bison chucks?


----------



## gadget_lover

I totally missed the t-slots. Must be getting old. It looks like those allow you to use it like a face plate with the appropriate bolts and hold-downs! Neat.

I also noticed the numbering on the rings. Why did I not think of that? It tells you what size the ring is, no?

Daniel


----------



## precisionworks

> the other 4 slots


T-slots do allow using it as a faceplate, but the most common use is to set up a part as if it were clamped to a rotary table. On some parts where the mass is far to one side of center, one slot can be used to attach a balancing weight.

Fixtures are sometimes built on flat steel plates & the plates are secured to the chuck using T-slot bolts. They're handy anytime the jaws can't be used.



> direct mount for a 4 jaw would be best & would eliminate the extra overhang.


+1

It's the same thickness as the Set-Tru minus the adapter plate. Really makes a short setup. The chuck was clocked through all 6 cam pin positions, and the best position showed .002" TIR. FWIW, clocking the Set-Tru found one position at .001" TIR on the adapter plate.


----------



## PEU

Barry, check this site http://www.cnccookbook.com/ now you are famous! :nana: 


Pablo


----------



## precisionworks

> now you are famous!


Thanks, Pablo. Glad I took the time for decent photos


----------



## darkzero

PEU said:


> Barry, check this site http://www.cnccookbook.com/ now you are famous! :nana:
> 
> 
> Pablo


 
Nice cradle Barry!

And that indexer & brake disc is bad ***.


----------



## StrikerDown

Looks like some nice welding on the tubing, who did that for you Barry?


----------



## darkzero

StrikerDown said:


> Looks like some nice welding on the tubing, who did that for you Barry?


 
Maybe the guy next door, or maybe Barry (same phone number)? :thinking: 

Post #21


----------



## darkzero

gadget_lover said:


> I also noticed the numbering on the rings.... It tells you what size the ring is, no?
> 
> Daniel


 
No, but the rings do help to eye ball the part close to center, well for me anyway. Seems like most 4 jaws have these rings.

The top number is the type of the chuck, "4344" is the model, direct mount with solid jaws. "10/5" is 10" D1-5 mount.

The middle number is some sort or identification/manufacturing number (too short for a serial number)? My chuck has the same number that is on the body stamped/etched on all 12 jaws (top & master) since the jaws are ground for that specific body. I assume Barry's 4 jaw is the same way. 

The bottom number seems to be the year the chuck was manufactured. Barry's 4 jaw is 1995, Barry's new 3 jaw is 2008, my old 5" is 2000, my new chuck that I bought early this year is 2008?


----------



## precisionworks

> nice welding on the tubing


Thank you! I GTAW welded that using stainless filler rod - nothing special about stainless filler except that it gives the best appearance, with strength equal to any "regular" filler. Most welders would use GMAW, but the appearance is so-so and the spatter clean up takes time. With GTAW there is zero clean up except a light pass with a wire brush. It's my choice for most any small job (less than 5 minutes of actual welding time). GMAW makes sense on larger jobs, as lots of wire can be deposited in a short time, especially if the spatter is not a concern.

Will is exactly right on the numbering. 2922 is stamped on all four jaws, plus each jaw is numbered 1 through 4 to correspond with the slot that the jaw is fitted to.


----------



## StrikerDown

Will,

Please stop 6 jaw porn posting! :shakehead My wallet needs a bail out!


----------



## darkzero

StrikerDown said:


> Will,
> 
> Please stop 6 jaw porn posting! :shakehead My wallet needs a bail out!


 
 Barry started it! 

I've been drooling over his 3 jaw set tru & 4 jaw since he posted them. I always enjoy looking at high quality chucks, they're like artwork & are amazing. I wish I could see how one is actually made in person. Am I the only one who is a sucker for nice chucks?


----------



## precisionworks

> enjoy looking at high quality chucks, they're like artwork


+1

A well made chuck is not too different from a mill vise of similar quality. There is a huge time component devoted to surface grinding (or Blanchard rotary surface grinding). Grinding is one of the most precise methods of metal removal *but *is the slowest mechanized method. Hand scraping a chuck or vise would be even nicer, which is how the ways of a Bridgeport mill are finished, but tediously slow.






The "fish scale" texture is caused by hand scraping, leaving a surface even flatter & more straight than surface grinding or Blanchard grinding ... since it is a hand guided process requiring great skill & patience, it isn't cheap.

Back when America dominated the machine tool world (before 1970 or so) the best chucks were Buck, Cushman, Skinner, etc. Most of today's high end chucks (excepting Buck) are Japanese (Kitagawa, Yuasa, Howa, etc.) or Eastern European (Bison, Tos, Rohm, etc). Pratt Burnerd, a UK company, still produces beautiful chucks.

Probably no surprise that Taiwan is starting to make very good copies of the best designs, Vertex being the first name that comes to mind. Look for China to be not far behind, followed by India. FWIW, I bought a couple of $8 chuck keys on eBay ... nicely boxed, black phosphate finished, pretty well made - in India


----------



## StrikerDown

precisionworks said:


> The "fish scale" texture is caused by hand scraping, leaving a surface even flatter & more straight than surface grinding or Blanchard grinding ... since it is a hand guided process requiring great skill & patience, it isn't cheap.





StrikerDown said:


> Will,
> 
> Please stop 6 jaw porn posting! :shakehead My wallet needs a bail out!



And the mill porn too!

That Mill is gorgeous!

Barry,

When do you move it into your shop?


----------



## precisionworks

> When do you move it into your shop?


Sadly Ray, it is not mine :mecry:

Some of the nicest Bpt rebuilds in the country come from John at J&L Scraping ... look at the photos on his site (under Gallery): http://www.j-lscraping.com/


----------



## precisionworks

Found one little problem last week - the Morse taper in the tailstock had some internal scoring. Put a brand new Jacobs arbor in, tapped it home, and it came out looking like this:






It should all look like the forward part of the arbor - unscratched. Enco wanted $110 for a MT4 finish reamer but eBay had one for $50 & it arrived today looking pretty nice.






Set up a center in the headstock, coated the reamer heavily with TapMagic, and brought the tailstock forward.






A 12" Crescent wrench supplies the torque, as finish reamers are always hand driven. While turning the reamer forward (clockwise) the tailstock ram is advanced until the reamer seats. A little more pressure is applied & the reamer is turned ... the handwheel usually has to apply quite a bit of pressure to get the reamer to start cutting. It took a two handed grip to pull the wrench forward when cutting began, probably around 100 lb/ft of torque. Cut a little, inspect, clean & oil, cut a little more until the taper is uniform:






No more scratching by that taper :twothumbs

A device came out about ten years ago called a Spin L Mate and it works well. Using one would probably have avoided scoring the taper in the first place.






Added a plywood top to the headstock so that the DRO could be located farther back & a few tools (mics, calipers, etc.) would have a place to rest. Also moved the roller chest in.


----------



## 65535

So I take it the Jacbos/morse taper shank is now ruined, not a whole lot you can do about external scoring?


----------



## precisionworks

> the Jacbos/morse taper shank is now ruined, not a whole lot you can do about external scoring?


Not ruined, just ugly 

I knocked the burrs off with a blue nonwoven belt in the Burr King (blue is the "fine" or least abrasive). On a tang drive shank like this, the taper serves to locate the drill chuck on center while the tang engages a slot in the ram that prevents rotation. The function is still 100%.

Morse taper sockets have a way of attracting metal bits & abrasive particles, especially if a tool is not left in the socket. Or the shank of a tool, if not wiped clean before mounting, can carry material into the socket. I'd guess that on average, about once every year the reamer gets used for a light touch up - at least it did on the South Bend. The first reaming takes out just a few thousandths, but subsequent reaming takes out just a fraction of that. Most MT shanks have 3/16" to 1/4" projection beyond the gage line, so it would take forever to remove too much metal - where the MT shank did not project beyond the gage line.


----------



## darkzero

Thanks for sharing Barry especially the Spin L Mate. I've always wanted something like that (I think I asked here before) but could only find the wipers for mills.


----------



## StrikerDown

darkzero said:


> Thanks for sharing Barry especially the Spin L Mate. I've always wanted something like that (I think I asked here before) but could only find the wipers for mills.



Will,

Did you check Enco? Seems I have seen something like this in their book near the MT taper adapters.


----------



## precisionworks

MSC sells them ... cost is just one arm plus one leg 

The MT4 size on eBay was $35, just a little less than the $130 at MSC. The holder part isn't too complex & the blades are available separately if you want to make your own.

A less costly version is the TaperMate:
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=890-562

Big Kaiser also has a variation:
http://www.bigkaiser.com/pdfs/Spindle%20Cleaner%20ISO%20&%20Morse.pdf

Turning a taper to match you tailstock bore & fixing on Scotchbrite strips might work. Expect a presentation by Will Q in just a few days


----------



## darkzero

Thanks Barry. :lolsign: re Will. :laughing:




StrikerDown said:


> Will,
> 
> Did you check Enco? Seems I have seen something like this in their book near the MT taper adapters.


 
I remember when looking I only saw these: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=492&PMCTLG=00
Never noticed anything for Morse tapers though.

I was looking for one back when Barry talked about spinning tapers. I was concerned about the 8x14 & because of it’;s small size I was worried that chips would fly into the TS. I just made a plug for it & called it a day.

On the new lathe I just keep something mounted in the TS as there’s enough room that it rarely gets in the way. Any with Barry’s recommendation on using a mallet to seat the taper I’ve luckily never spun one yet. Still I guess it would be cool to have one for $35, but for $130 I can live without.


----------



## precisionworks

Smaller machines are sometimes worse about letting a tapered shank spin, as many rely only on the mechanical lock of the male & female taper to prevent rotation of the tool. My South Bend was like this - a perfectly fresh reamed socket plus a wiped clean shank would rarely slip, even under heavy drilling load. Get the least bit careless, forget to tap the drill chuck with the mallet, and spin it would. Reamer time.

My best guess is that the current lathe had a misshapen socket, caused probably by using a worn reamer during manufacturing. The back of the socket was tight while the front had almost zero contact, as shown in the first photo. When reaming was started, the first metal was cut from the rear of the taper - judging by the location of the shavings in the flutes of the reamer. Looking into the socket showed that the front was untouched while the rear was being reamed. Reaming continued until the entire socket showed a uniform finish, and the shank now shows definite contact along the front as well as the rear. This would have never been noticed had it not been reamed.



> I’ve luckily never spun one yet


Spinning the shank can act like a clutch & prevent tool breakage, so it isn't all bad (except for having to ream afterward). Tang drive shanks, like those on a large MT twist drill, will not spin but they will snap in two if overloaded. While drilling a hole with a medium sized drill bit, probably 1.25" or so, I fed the drill too fast & it hung in the work. Funny as you watch the flutes unwind a fraction of a turn before the drill shatters into small fragments. One flew right over the bosses shoulder, standing about five feet away, causing him to turn give me that  look. He knew right away exactly what had happened


----------



## darkzero

precisionworks said:


> Spinning the shank can act like a clutch & prevent tool breakage, so it isn't all bad (except for having to ream afterward).


 
I had hoped my PM1236 would have had the tang feature like yours & the machines in shop class but Will Q was nice enough to answer that for me before delivery of the lathe.

As easy as you have made it sound & shown to repair, something in me still tells me it's bad to spin a shank because it's causing damage to the lathe although minor. I think I would rather break a drill bit even though the last time it caused me more labor in the part, a new center drill, & a new bandsaw blade. 

I guess I will just have to find out for myself one day, hopefully I don't have fly shards flying across the garage like your incident.

It sounds like a keyed chuck allowing it to slip may be better insurance than a self tightening keyless chuck? Nah, I'll still with what I got. 




Ok gotta go, some new goodies to play with (sorry I couldn't resist).


A new plug gage handle for some thread gages I got.







A new cutter, hopefully that last one I'll need to finish what I owe you. 






Not bad for $120 brand new in box (guess it was worth the wait).






And Dremel's new cordless to replace my tired 16+ year old corded Dremel. Enough power to take the place of my corded model & also replace my smaller cordless model.


----------



## precisionworks

> it's bad to spin a shank because it's causing damage to the lathe


You're right. Once a tool spins in the socket it leaves internal score marks that reduce the available contact area. Not a bad idea to find a reamer for the tailstock & have it in the tool chest, as the day will come when you'll want to use it right away. 

The MT3 reamers can sometimes be found for not much money. Enco lists their import for $66, but eBay sometimes has that size for $20-$30. As little as a finish reamer is used in a small shop, the imports are good enough for the job.



> some new goodies to play with


The Tooling Bug has bitten hard 

Nice stuff. The small bars from Circle do an awesome job.


----------



## gadget_lover

I have to wonder if a small brake / cylinder hone could be used as a makeshift repair after you spin it like that. The hone would knock off the high spots and not do much (if anything ) to the low spots.

Of course, you'd have to clean well when done.

Dan


----------



## precisionworks

Got in a couple of drill related items ...

First is the Jacobs Super Chuck 20N, the largest model they make. Great for holding large shank drills (those not having a reduced shank) and for holding straight shank chucking reamers. The 14N (1/2" capacity) is shown for size comparison:
















The other item is a "spade bit", named that because of the shape of the insert. Inserts are available in uncoated HSS, coated HSS, cobalt & solid carbide. This insert makes a 2" hole, perfect for use with my 1 3/4" boring bar. Other inserts are available for this holder, up to 2.5". Dime on shank is shown for size comparison.


----------



## wquiles

Totally awesome Barry. I gotta get me one of those spade drills one of these days 

Will


----------



## StrikerDown

OMG! I just went out and looked at my 14N chuck and it seems huge. That 20N is a beast!


----------



## wquiles

I have the 16N, and it still looks "not worthy"


----------



## precisionworks

> That 20N is a beast!


+1

Most commercial shops have a 20N that gets passed around as needed. It's the ticket for running a large, straight shanked reamer. Most of the 20N's on eBay are badly worn & still sell for $150-$200. Mine is NOS from Plaza Machinery, with key for $165



> gotta get one of those spade drills


I used mine today to drill a plate that was then bored to 2.750". Started the drill at 115 rpm to get the point to penetrate, dropped back to 80 rpm when the point was half buried, and finished the hole at 57 rpm. They work surprisingly fast. This was an eBay find for $25 - a new 2" spade insert alone costs twice that 

I use smaller spade drills for production runs, usually 29/64, 37/64 or 11/16. The holders are straight shanked and fit a 1/2" or larger drill chuck. Always a bunch on eBay - search for AMEC spade drill. Allied Machine & Engineering Co. (AMEC) has been making spade drills for over 50 years.

http://www.alliedmachine.com/default.aspx


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## precisionworks

I ran a few parts yesterday and had lots of chatter parting off right at the chuck - since the tool height was correct, stick out set short, carriage locked, etc., that left just one culprit, too loose headstock bearings. Note the herringbone surface left by the tool tip as it bounced around.






The bearing adjustment is identical to many other imported lathes. The thrust ring that pushes against the rear bearing & the locking ring that retains the setting are hidden under a cover ... and getting the cover off means removing the transposing gears used for threading. Took about 15 minutes to get all that removed.






Adjusting the bearings requires removing the locking ring & turning the adjustment ring until most of the slack is out of the bearings. I set and reset the adjustment half a dozen times until spinning the chuck felt about right - just a hint of tightness while still spinning freely. The bearings are at room temp & will tend to tighten as they warm up. Ran the spindle for 15 minutes at 1000 rpm & monitored the temp, which stayed around 90F, then raised the speed to 1450 rpm & ran another 15 minutes. The Fluke IRT stayed well in the "cool" range, showing that the bearings could be a little tighter still.






Recutting the same part using the same setup showed a vast improvement in surface finish.


----------



## gadget_lover

Thanks for that post about the bearings. I never quite thought to analyze the chatter pattern that way. 

One more tip for the "what the heck????" file.

Daniel


----------



## Anglepoise

Barry...............good post on the headstock bearing adjustments and mentioning that in your case the bearings will tighten when being run and warming up.

My lathe just happens to be the opposite,loosen as they heat up, but think it is very important to know this before adjusting.


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> Adjusting the bearings requires removing the locking ring & turning the adjustment ring until most of the slack is out of the bearings. I set and reset the adjustment half a dozen times until spinning the chuck felt about right - just a hint of tightness while still spinning freely. The bearings are at room temp & will tend to tighten as they warm up. Ran the spindle for 15 minutes at 1000 rpm & monitored the temp, which stayed around 90F, then raised the speed to 1450 rpm & ran another 15 minutes. The Fluke IRT stayed well in the "cool" range, showing that the bearings could be a little tighter still.


Barry - what is a "good" or "cool" range for the temp to be when checking this fit?


----------



## precisionworks

> what is a "good" or "cool" range for the temp


That's the million dollar question 

My preference is to set the preload pretty snug, so that the bearing temp shows a 40-50 degree F rise (above room temp) after running the spindle for 15-20 minutes. The inner bearing race is the easiest place to check, unless one wants to pull the headstock cover and implant a temp probe at the front & rear bearing locations. The inner bearing race surrounds the headstock tube, both front & rear, and is a pretty easy place to point an IR thermometer, especially is the bore is large.

With most machines, too little preload produces little temp rise. Too much produces temps that never stabilize, but keep climbing with increased run time. The science is not exact & it's more of an experiment than it is a standard procedure.

You can see the great concentration required :nana:


----------



## precisionworks

This project started weeks ago, when I decided to mount an aluminum disc on the cast iron faceplate. The disc came from http://www.sandsmachine.com/alumweb.htm
It's Mic-6 cast aluminum tooling plate, Blanchard ground to a 25 Ra finish, ready to use. The disc started off 1.25" thick & 14.75" diameter. I trimmed the diameter to just over 13" on the Delta bandsaw & mounted the plate to the cast iron faceplate. Turned the edge smooth, took a light facing cut, and moved the rpm up to 500. Shook like a washing machine, so off to the tire store we go.

Nix Tires isn't your ordinary tire store, but most tire store owners don't have a Silver Crown USAC race car on a transporter :thumbsup: Ricky said the best thing about USAC racing is Danica Patrick, but that's another story. He has a top end wheel balancer, and a faceplate certainly looks like a wheel, so on the machine it goes. Five minutes later, with 3.00 ounces of lead weight, the faceplate's done. No vibration at 500 rpm, none at 1000 rpm, none even at 1500 rpm.







The plate needed a few tapped holes for hold down studs, and all the tap makers have a special tap for cast aluminum plate. I chose Balax ... this is what a $30 tap looks like (and it isn't large):






The rotary table was centered on the mill & the faceplate centered on the RT. A line of 6 holes was drilled on .750" centers and the RT was indexed 20 degrees. That took a while. The faceplate was removed from the RT & the holes were tapped using an Ettco 3B tapping head ... about 30 minutes to tap all the holes.






Plenty of clearance with the compound moved under the faceplate:






The faceplate is so "tall" that the original camlock wrench couldn't be used. A new one was made from 1144 Stressproof, with the square tip hardened.


----------



## StrikerDown

Barry,

That looks gorgeous, not to mention useful! 

I made something similar for my RT... Very handy and keeps the cutters away from the RT.


----------



## 65535

They say necessity is the mother of invention. So what necessity is this new work holder created for?


----------



## precisionworks

> I made something similar for my RT


+1

Faceplates are much like a powered rotary table, and some work can be done on either the RT or the faceplate. Repeat jobs (that aren't easily held in the 3-jaw, 4-jaw or collet chuck) run well with faceplate mounting, especially if a fixture is built for the part. Often a balancing weight is built into the fixture so the entire assembly can spin without shaking.



> what necessity is this new work holder created for?


Nothing at this time, but Murphy's Law states that any spindle tooling that's unavailable is the tooling that will be needed for a job 

I have one small job that runs a couple of hours each month on a dedicated fixture. The fixture was attached to a faceplate on the South Bend, but it could almost as easily be clamped in the 4-jaw.

The 3-jaw and the collet chuck do 80% of the work that comes into my shop. For the other 20%, the 4-jaw or faceplate is the tooling of choice. Having the threaded holes makes the faceplate a lot more easy to use, as the cast slots require four hands to set up a part


----------



## wquiles

Awesome project Barry - and thanks much for the pictures


----------



## precisionworks

Surprisingly, no new tooling was purchased during the past month  The lathe actually made money instead of draining money away, which made SWMBO happy.

One item was just added because Will Q was kind enough to alert me to an eBay auction for a new AccuLube MQL applicator ( see Will's thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/257169 )

Won the item for $153, not bad as it has a current retail price of just under $1100. Hooked it up today.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/barrymilton/acu4.jpg





That's the AccuLube at the far right side of the machine, using the supplied magnets to hold it to the splash shield.






Not terribly small, but it easily mounts out of the way.






The two positive displacement pumps are mounted in the upper left side of the enclosure. At the lower right side is the cycle timer.






Air is supplied from behind the splash shield, first going through a regulator. Any pressure from 60 psi to 150 psi is OK, and there's an air flow adjustment inside the enclosure.






In use during a knurling operation.






A small sheen of lubricant can just be seen on the right side of the Eagle Rock knurling tool.

Pretty awesome way to apply lubricant, as the volume applied is almost too small to measure


----------



## wquiles

Awesome :twothumbs

I am glad you got it running - what a great buy!

I have been using mine for many months now, and I am still impressed as to how little lubricant is used, and how big a difference it makes


----------



## PEU

do these use special lubricant?


----------



## wquiles

PEU said:


> do these use special lubricant?



Technically speaking you can use any good lubricant, but they were designed to work properly with the Accu-Lube lubricants, this one being one of their best ones:
LB2000

I bought a couple of Gallons from Ebay at like half price, so I have enough fluid for at least the next several years


----------



## precisionworks

LB2000 is also what I have. Bought a gallon years ago & have been brushing it onto parts :shakehead The pump applicator is a lot slicker.

The lubricant allows quite a bit higher sfpm in some materials. I turned down some 4140HT tonight & kept bumping up the speed until the chip peeled brown & dropped blue ... 262 sfpm before any color showed in the chip. I normally run that material at half the speed 

Part of the reason is that there is continuous airflow through both nozzles. I have one nozzle pointed down the face of the insert, aimed directly at the tip. The other applies lube to the material just before the insert cuts it. The combination of air & lube are quite effective.


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> The combination of air & lube are quite effective.


+1

That sums it pretty well


----------



## PEU

precisionworks said:


> Won the item for $153, not bad as it has a current retail price of just under $1100. Hooked it up today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the AccuLube at the far right side of the machine, using the supplied magnets to hold it to the splash shield.



Im joining the accu-lube club, but will have to wait until my shop is ready (still many months to go) since I don't have a compressor at the office.

Just won this auction  for a brand new unit at $203+25 shipping 

There is another one from the same seller with no bids, this item was listed yesterday $20 less, but it seems after my snipe the seller wanted to be sure about the minimum amount he will get 


Pablo


----------



## precisionworks

> I'm joining the Accu-Lube club


+1

After using mine for these past weeks (and using up almost no lubricant, maybe two ounces) all I can say is *it rocks *:twothumbs

Modern Machine Shop just ran an article about Ford Motor Co. and their extensive use of MQL on transmission parts - close tolerance, very finely finished parts: http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/the-many-ways-ford-benefits-from-mql

Also, a video from MMS Online: http://www.mmsonline.com/videos/video-getting-started-with-minimum-quantity-lubrication

This is the best money spent on lathe tooling, right after the quick change tool post. It will change how you think about lubrication. Eager to try it on a small project using Ti6-4.


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> This is the best money spent on lathe tooling, right after the quick change tool post. It will change how you think about lubrication.


Well said. Pretty amazing, specially if you can find them cheap on Ebay


----------



## mototraxtech

Does it leave or FLING much lube around. Since my lathe is keep indoors meaning in a spare bedroom I cant have lube all over the walls. I thought of doing a very good self containment coolant system but one of these might be better!


----------



## precisionworks

> Does it leave or FLING much lube around?


Not a drop. The oil is slowly dripped into an airstream, which breaks each drop into micro droplets. Those are (relatively) large so they do not become a mist.

One or two tiny spots do get on my safety glasses during an hour or so of turning.


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> Not a drop. The oil is slowly dripped into an airstream, which breaks each drop into micro droplets. Those are (relatively) large so they do not become a mist.
> 
> One or two tiny spots do get on my safety glasses during an hour or so of turning.



+1

That is a great advantage of this time of system: It is a lot less messy when compared to the Kool Mist I used before. Plus, the oil is not corrosive at all, so you end up with metal parts covered with this cutting oil, which is a great way to keep metal from rusting :devil:


----------



## precisionworks

For some time, I didn't understand how the Accu-Lube applicator delivered lubricant without mist ... here's what they say:






The venturi system (parts 5 & 6) are used on the newest models. 

The older units like mine (made in 2001) work in a slightly different but similar way:






The effect of both the venturi & of cutting the lubricant line back from the tip is that high pressure air flows around the tip of the lubricant line, where a low pressure condition exists. As a micro drop of lubricant is expelled from the line by the positive displacement pump, the airstream carries that drop out through the tip where it splats against the tool.


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> For some time, I didn't understand how the Accu-Lube applicator delivered lubricant without mist ... here's what they say:
> 
> (snip image)
> 
> The venturi system (parts 5 & 6) are used on the newest models.
> 
> The older units like mine (made in 2001) work in a slightly different but similar way:
> 
> (snip image)
> 
> The effect of both the venturi & of cutting the lubricant line back from the tip is that high pressure air flows around the tip of the lubricant line, where a low pressure condition exists. As a micro drop of lubricant is expelled from the line by the positive displacement pump, the airstream carries that drop out through the tip where it splats against the tool.



Awesome - thanks. Very good explanation of what I "see" when I use it 

Will


----------



## precisionworks

> Very good explanation of what I "see"


I can't take credit for that, as an ITW Rocol applications engineer used the "splat" terminology


----------



## precisionworks

I posted photos of the large (2") spade drill, but they are also available in small sizes ...



















All the spade holders and all the inserts were eBay items, most either cheap or really cheap:nana:

The two smaller sizes are tap drills for 1/2" and 5/8" taps.


----------



## metalbutcher

This Accu-Lube stuff sounds interesting. I've don't want the mess of flood coolant or the hazards of the mist type. Which Accu-Lube applicator are you guys using on your lathes? How much air does it use? I'll need to get my compressor first but this Accu-Lube product is just another reason I need to get a compressor sooner than later.

Thanks,
Ed


----------



## wquiles

metalbutcher said:


> This Accu-Lube stuff sounds interesting. I've don't want the mess of flood coolant or the hazards of the mist type. Which Accu-Lube applicator are you guys using on your lathes? How much air does it use? I'll need to get my compressor first but this Accu-Lube product is just another reason I need to get a compressor sooner than later.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed



Lets move that discussion here: 
Near-dry machining ...


----------



## metalbutcher

I'm also sorry for the hijack. I should have started a new thread.

Ed


----------



## precisionworks

Speaking of phase converters (not that we were  ) this link was posted earlier in this thread & I never took the time to read it - my bad. It automates what I do mechanically & adds voltage balancing caps:http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/rotary_converter/


----------



## precisionworks

Got started mounting the tailstock DRO. First determined the position & marked out the holes:






Used a Delrin spacer to lift the scale about .062", as there is little clearance under the reader head:






Drilled & tapped the two mounting holes with the mill. Used M4x0.7 cap screws:






Mounted the scale to the TS and checked alignment:






Looked around the shop for some flat stock to make the linkage and found some sheet brass, .062" thick. Wanted to use aluminum, but had only .125" thickness & did not have room under the reader head to use that. Cut the brass sheet with the bandsaw, then drilled two mounting holes for the 5-40 cap screws:






Scale show with TS ram in the fully retracted position:






Shown this time with the TS ram fully extended:






Just need to machine a collar to fit over the end of the ram and provide an attachment point for the linkage.


----------



## precisionworks

Finished the TS DRO today ... estimated a total of 4 hours, took 10, so my estimate was right on :nana:

Started with a piece of 6061 flat bar, 3" wide & 1" thick. First op was to face both sides flat & parallel to each other:






A central hole was then drilled & bored slightly larger than the shank of a #4MT. Next came the counterbore, shown here with the lathe turning at 700 rpm (frozen by flash):






The micrometer showed the OD of the ram at 2.1655", and I wanted a size-on-size fit. The digital caliper was used to rough the bore to size, then the Starrett 123 was used for a dead nuts fit.






Bore & counterbore are finished, and the fit is so close that the part has to be pressed on by advancing the ram forward against a Delrin bar 






The Delrin spacers that were used to raise the scale really bothered me, so I cut & drilled brass stock of the same .062" thickness:






The block was milled down a little at a time until the top was dead level with the underside of the brass linkage:






Back to the mill to drill and tap for the three grub screws & the small screw that attaches the linkage. A Balax Thredfloer forming tap is shown here:






Mounted with ram in the fully retracted position:






And in the fully extended position:


----------



## wquiles

Man, that looks really good!


----------



## precisionworks

> that looks really good!


Thank you!

The first collar design that was considered used a half split with a draw bolt. Had this one been loose (over bored) the split with draw bolt would have worked. Got lucky on the final boring pass, ended up no more than .0001" to .0002" over ram size, making it really difficult to start the collar on the ram - but resulting in absolutely zero play. The three grub screws are more than adequate to retain the collar.

First time around, the "front" of the collar (that part ahead of the ram) stuck out too far and would not allow seating of a live center. Faced it off until there was no interference. 

In the photo above (that shows the Balax tap in the collar) my marking out lines are visible. While the block was rectangular it was drilled & tapped, then sawed on the Delta wood cutting band saw, then finish ground on the 6x48 belt sander.

I don't believe there's an easier way to do this, even though it took a while.


----------



## brickbat

precisionworks said:


> Finished the TS DRO today ... estimated a total of 4 hours, took 10, so my estimate was right on...



Well, maybe you forgot to add in the 6 hours for taking pictures  Which, BTW are excellent!!


----------



## precisionworks

> maybe you forgot to add in the 6 hours for taking pictures


LOL 

Taking the photos is quick, post processing is the time eater. Upload to Picassa & edit, load into Irfanview & compress, save to photo file, upload to Photobucket, post on forum ... there has to be a faster way.


----------



## PEU

Ages since I last used irfanview, but I recall you can bulk resize, then upload in bulk to imageshack and you are good to go, or if you don't mind, even imageshack can resize for you, but upload time will be slower.


Pablo


----------



## precisionworks

> you can bulk resize


Seems like Will Q mentioned that also, but I cannot figure out how


----------



## PEU

Try this one, is also free: http://www.faststone.org/FSResizerDetail.htm


Pablo


----------



## wquiles

This is the one I use (for 10+ years) to bulk re-size all pictures prior to uploading to a server:
IrfanView

I like it so much that I run it from within Ubuntu via WINE


----------



## Got Lumens?

precisionworks said:


> LOL
> 
> Taking the photos is quick, post processing is the time eater. Upload to Picassa & edit, load into Irfanview & compress, save to photo file, upload to Photobucket, post on forum ... there has to be a faster way.


 
I use Photobucket, I too was resizing, and all the work along with it.
I don't bother now. I use the Photobucket Thumbnail feature, which is not shown by default. You need to go to settings and check the HTML Thumbnail box.
I can upload anysize picture and post the thumbnail here and avoid the CPF 800x800 pixel size restriction. Here is an Example showing the PhotoBucket's settings page in 1280x1024:




[zRL=http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee436/Got-Lumens/CPF/Banner/photbucket.jpg][zMG]http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee436/Got-Lumens/CPF/Banner/th_photbucket.jpg[/zMG][/zRL]

Replaced "U" & "I" with "z" to display the thumbnail image url from Photobucket to paste into posts, as above.
GL


----------



## precisionworks

Thanks for all the suggestions on faster resizing 

Certainly one of those will work for me.


----------



## precisionworks

Finally got around to a job that I really didn't want to do because I knew it would take half a day :scowl: The part is a Harley-Davidson triple tree:






The existing threaded stem had to be shortened to fit a custom frame. The part was set up on the faceplate:






The old threaded area was cut off & a new thread was cut along with a new bearing seat. Clearance on the bearing seat is a good .0002" which allows the bearing to float so that end play can be adjusted. 






With the bearing in place:






Close view of the threads:






The threads were left flat on top to match the factory threads that were cut off. Thread size is 7/8" x 24 tpi, not a thread that I've ever cut before.


----------



## gadget_lover

Nicely done. 

I envy the fact that you can swing a tripple-clamp on your lathe. If you add something to the pictues to give a sense of size (a maglight works well) people would be amazed.

Did I remember to say "Well done!" ??? 

Dan


----------



## precisionworks

Thanks Dan 



> If you add something to the pictures to give a sense of size (a maglight works well) people would be amazed.


You are right, I never thought about that. That face plate is just a hair under 14" diameter.

The speed was set to 175 rpm from start to finish which was barely fast enough for turning but good for threading. On a short thread like this the half nuts are left in the closed position & the carriage is reversed after each threading pass. Cutting the bearing seat too deep or messing up the thread would have turned this part into scrap so I forced myself to go slow ... which isn't easy.


----------



## precisionworks

This may help give a sense of the size of the part, installed in the frame:







The threaded end & nut are used to set preload (or tightness) of the Timken tapered roller bearings:






When this Triumph frame was made during the 1950's it used ball bearings like those used on a bicycle. The owner wanted to change over to the Harley-Davidson triple clamp with tapered rollers but the closest Timken size was quite a bit smaller. A bushing was turned for both the top & the bottom, with the bushing OD sized for a press fit into the frame and the bushing ID sized so the Timken cups would press in. The bushing is the metal part that's right against the gray painted frame:


----------



## gadget_lover

I hope that makes the Triumph handle better. Is it a vintage model?


----------



## precisionworks

> Is it a vintage model?


Not really sure, it's a 650cc that makes 50 bhp. The owner pulled the swing arm & had a hard tail welded in. At least now he has a roller


----------



## precisionworks

My grand daughter immediately heads for the lathe whenever we go to the shop. Grabbed a short piece of 1" diameter (25.4mm) while delrin rod & snugged it up in the 5C collet chuck. RPM set to 1000 & DOC around 1mm. Set a mechanical carriage stop so the tool would not hit the collet as she (by herself) advanced the carriage. Thread cutting is next 






She preferred power feeding the carriage & was able to disengage the feed each time the tool approached the collet nose. Feed set super slow, .004"/rev (.1mm/rev).


----------



## Got Lumens?

That is so cool. Priceless.
Thanks for sharing that.
GL


----------



## darkzero

precisionworks said:


> My grand daughter immediately heads for the lathe whenever we go to the shop. Grabbed a short piece of 1" diameter (25.4mm) while delrin rod & snugged it up in the 5C collet chuck. RPM set to 1000 & DOC around 1mm. Set a mechanical carriage stop so the tool would not hit the collet as she (by herself) advanced the carriage. Thread cutting is next
> 
> Snip...
> 
> She preferred power feeding the carriage & was able to disengage the feed each time the tool approached the collet nose. Feed set super slow, .004"/rev (.1mm/rev).



That's awesome Barry, thanks for sharing! She did a good job & that's great of you to give her the opportunity & instruction!

My shop instructor always cracked jokes (to those of us who were closer with him) that whenever a female showed up for the first day of class, "she has no idea what she's getting herself into, she'll be gone by next week"! 

Sure enough, of all the semesters I was there, not one female showed up by the third class... max.


----------



## precisionworks

Thanks guys 

She started machining by using the tailstock ram to drill out Type 304 stainless tubing. Drilling with a machine sharpened twist drill produces two spirals & that seems to fascinate her. She also liked the Delrin curls. Delrin is nice as the chips are clean & no clothing gets dirty or oily.

Probably need to do some milling in aluminum ...


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## BVH

What a lucky young lady to have you for an instructor!


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## Got Lumens?

precisionworks said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> She started machining by using the tailstock ram to drill out Type 304 stainless tubing. Drilling with a machine sharpened twist drill produces two spirals & that seems to fascinate her. She also liked the Delrin curls. Delrin is nice as the chips are clean & no clothing gets dirty or oily.
> 
> Probably need to do some milling in aluminum ...


Don't forget the hairnet and some safety glasses . Good habits start early. I remember my first shop project was making a drill sharpening gauge on a milling machine. How about making some alluminum Letter Blocks for school. That would fascinate her teachers at school . The fond memories of the whole experience will last a lifetime, priceless. Your a very good Grandfather, very insprirational, Thanks again for sharing.


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## PEU

lovely! Congrats!


Pablo


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