# Has anyone modded a Tikka Plus?



## Cemoi (Aug 14, 2009)

After successfully modding a Tikka with Nichia GS LEDs, I would like to do the same on a Tikka Plus.
It is the multimode model (high->med->low->blinking), operated with a clicky switch.
I'm afraid it won't be as easy to modify as the basic Tikka, on which I only had to swap LEDs and change the resistor value.
I have not taken the Tikka Plus apart yet (I don't have it here with me) but I'm afraid there is an IC with different (maybe SMD) resistors, so I'm not sure simply swapping the LEDs will do, because of the difference in Vf between the original LEDs and the Nichias.
Any feedback on such a mod would be appreciated, thanks.


----------



## Ogg Vorbis (Aug 14, 2009)

Hey,

I've done the mentioned mod, it was tricky to get into and then to put back due to the snap in parts, but none the less it is do-able. I didn't change any resistors or anything...

However, since i did it, i havn't really used it all that much...  but it's much brighter 

Heck have a go!

Dan


----------



## r-ice (Aug 14, 2009)

make sure to post some pics up! and where would one go about getting some of these nicha leds. I do have a tikka plus and would love to give this a go!


----------



## TGr (Aug 15, 2009)

Modding with Nichia is reasonable for Tikka plus model before 2006. 
Tikka plus 2006 has 26K.

Swapped original 14K mcd with generic/unknown 40K mcd leds. 
After first swap one of middle led start flickering after some 4 hours of usage. Then die.

I was not shure if reason is low quality of leds so i replace dead led with new one. 
Again - after some 8 hours of total usage middle pair of leds start flickering.

Procedure and beamshot here:

http://84.255.207.31/v/uporabniki/Tomo/album2202/

(and yes, i have Nichia ready and now i am waiting for someone with better results then mine)


----------



## Cemoi (Aug 16, 2009)

Ogg Vorbis said:


> but it's much brighter



Have you measured the current draw before/after the mod?



r-ice said:


> where would one go about getting some of these nicha leds.



If you are in the European Union, you can get ten Nichia GS for ten euros, including shipment, from here.



TGr said:


> Modding with Nichia is reasonable for Tikka plus model before 2006.
> Tikka plus 2006 has 26K.


Nichia GS are 44cd, so they should be a worthwhile upgrade over 26cd.



> after some 8 hours of total usage middle pair of leds start flickering.


According to your pics of the circuit, the LEDs are connected in parallel, so a significant difference in Vf between the LEDs could explain this behaviour. Did you try and match the LED Vf before using them?


----------



## TGr (Aug 16, 2009)

Yes, i believe there is difference - the replacement leds was matched, but i didn't measure originals. And now is to late - i lost them. 
So some good preparation is obviusly necesary before replacing leds 

Ok, its heavy offtopic but one of reasons i love tikka+, one night in december me and my friend make night crossing, half of country and light source was only moon and tikka+
http://84.255.207.31/v/uporabniki/Tomo/album956/album157/


----------



## Ogg Vorbis (Aug 17, 2009)

Cemoi said:


> Have you measured the current draw before/after the mod?



I assume you mean current draw from the battery end?

I'm guessing it would be the same, the driver board hasn't been altered so the LED's are getting the same amount of current, but they produce more light for the given current.

I got my nichia from some DX fautons btw...


----------



## Cemoi (Aug 26, 2009)

Ogg Vorbis said:


> I'm guessing it would be the same, the driver board hasn't been altered so the LED's are getting the same amount of current



This is not true, because of the difference in Vf between the original and new LEDs.
I've just completed the LED swap, replacing the four original LEDs with Nichia GS (unknown brightness bin). The resulting beam is much brighter, as can be seen on the following beamshots:
Original LEDs, high:






Original LEDs, medium:





Original LEDs, low:





Nichia GS, high:





Nichia GS, medium:





Nichia GS, low:





All shot were taken @ISO64, 3.5s, f:4.5.

With the new LEDs, the beam color is much warmer and color rendition is better. The new brightness on the medium setting is about the same as the former high setting brightness, but with a much lower current draw from the batteries.
With partly drained NiMH batteries (Vbat around 1.25V which is the beginning of the flat part of my Recyko+ AAA discharge curve), the current draw is (high/med/low):

Original LEDs: 100mA / 25mA / 10mA
Nichia LEDs: 120mA / 35mA / 15mA
So the current draw is 20 to 50% higher with the new LEDs, but I have now the same approximate brightness @ 35mA as I had @ 100mA.

Using three freshly charged Recyko+ AAA NiMH batteries (total open voltage 4.4V) the total current from the batteries reaches 170mA, so the LEDs are significantly overdriven (more than 40mA each) but they seem to stand such a current quite well as per JohnR66 fade test.

So I do recommend such an upgrade, although my soldering skills were barely sufficient to handle the tricky unsoldering/soldering process (the LED leads need to be soldered and bent at precise length otherwise the LEDs won't fit in the casing).


----------



## Leekeyjug (Sep 17, 2009)

Hello, I've just discoverd this forum while trying to see if I can mod my Tikka plus headtorch. 
I am looking to replace the white LEDs with red ones. I have very little experience in this sort of this and haven't actualy had a look inside my tikka to see what needs doing. I've just looked at a site that sells LEDS and it was way over my head. Can anybody please point me in the right direction? 

Thank you!


----------



## greenLED (Sep 17, 2009)

Don't red and white LED have different Vf's... not sure how you'd deal with that.


----------



## Cemoi (Sep 18, 2009)

Leekeyjug said:


> I am looking to replace the white LEDs with red ones.



greenLED is correct, there is too much a difference in Vf between red and white LEDs (even more so as I found the original LEDs to have a higher Vf than the Nichias I used as a replacement). Therefore if you only swap the LEDs the resulting current will probably be way too high for the red LEDs.
You would need to change also the resistor, which is very easy on a Tikka (see this thread), but probably much more difficult on a Tikka Plus which uses SMD resistors and whose circuit is much more complex.
Unless you have the first generation Tikka Plus, with only one mode (on-off sliding switch?)...


----------



## Leekeyjug (Sep 23, 2009)

Oh, no I have a newer tikka plas. :mecry: Well thank you, all you clever people, guess I'll have to get a Tactikka plus then. With its red filter thingy.


----------



## joao2004 (Sep 27, 2009)

Also trying to mod my tikka+... But can't tell what my original leds are, they are taking a lot of current... don't know if putting a nichia gs or a 0.5W led (18 lm) will get a improvement...

*EDIT: replace by nichia is a great improvement*


----------



## joao2004 (Oct 8, 2009)

Mod done... replaced the original leds with nichia gs, and the 6R8 resistors with 22R... works fine


----------



## tnuckels (Oct 8, 2009)

Can you explain the necessity of changing the resistor?

I did this mod well over a year ago but, like *Ogg_Vorbis,* I simply swapped the original LEDs for Nichia GS. I’ve had no problems with the light. Please tell me it’s not going to  on my wife’s forehead while we’re reading in bed.


----------



## joao2004 (Oct 8, 2009)

tnuckels said:


> Can you explain the necessity of changing the resistor?
> 
> I did this mod well over a year ago but, like *Ogg_Vorbis,* I simply swapped the original LEDs for Nichia GS. I’ve had no problems with the light. Please tell me it’s not going to  on my wife’s forehead while we’re reading in bed.



*EDIT: DON'T Change the Resistor... there's no need!!!*

The 22R resistor was calculated so that with 1.3v per cell (nimh), the current in each led is ~30mA (nichia gs max continuous value)

Original leds are very overdriven... with 1.5v (fresh alkaline) ~100mA per led!!!

My nichia gs have lower Vf than the original leds, so if i didn't change the resistor they would be even more overdriven than the original leds... don't know how much the nichia can take ...

Unfortunately i didn't take photos with the original leds, so i can't compare the before and the after... but it's giving more light, (maybe not a huge diference), at a lower consumption

I will plot the discharge rate (with my sanyo nimh), don't know if someone has done it with a original tikka+, so i can compare run times!


----------



## Gazoola (Jun 1, 2010)

joao2004 said:


> The 22R resistor was calculated so that with 1.3v per cell (nimh), the current in each led is ~30mA (nichia gs max continuous value)
> 
> Original leds are very overdriven... with 1.5v (fresh alkaline) ~100mA per led!!!
> 
> My nichia gs have lower Vf than the original leds, so if i didn't change the resistor they would be even more overdriven than the original leds... don't know how much the nichia can take ...



First I should say that I am a total newb with electronics, I have read extensively in the forum and am getting a grasp of the concepts, but with my dim original Tikka Plus, am somewhat still in the dark :laughing:.

Reading about some of the massive improvements in brightness, I also want to mod my Tikka Plus (the one with 3 levels plus strobe).
But what concerns me is the above mentioning of overdriven Nichia LED's, both the ?original? and the Nichia mod ones, which are rated at 30mA.

Is this correct? "the orginal LED's are overdriven"? Does every one agree with this?
Petzyl surely wouldn't design this way else there would be too many warranty returns. ?

If I wanted to confirm the mA draw of my own original Tikka Plus, I should switch to high mode then measure with a multimeter (set to Amps) in series between the battery negative and the circuit. Then take this number and divide by the 4 LED's - right?

*THE NEED TO CHANGE THE RESISTOR AS WELL:*
For those who have done the mod - Can you provide feedback on the long term use of the modded Tikka Plus after just changing to Nichia LEDs, not the resistor.

Given that the Tikka Plus is a direct drive, and that different batteries could be used (Alkaline 1.5v, NiMH 1.2V), the voltage and so the mA to the LED will vary greatly. From prior posts to this thread "the total current from the [fresh] batteries reaches 170mA" - well above the 30mA spec. 
*Does this mean that over driving the LED in a Tikka Plus is unavoidable?*
Or that the Vf of the new Nichia LED's did not correctly match to the original ones? If so, how should I properly match new LED's to ensure no over driving?

Some mentioned replacing a resistor. Maybe rather than replacing it, which could be difficult being surface mounted, another could be added in series - Is this plausible? If so, what and where?

With so many questions, I am overwhelming myself!!
With the above in mind....maybe it is better to look at the final goal and work backwards...

*BEST SOLUTION?*
I wanted to use these *Nichia NSPW500GS-K1* LED's, which are If 30mA, Vf 3.2 typical - 3.5 max, rank W: min 31000 mcd - max 44000 mcd
Ideally I would be happy with 50-75% brighter light and some increase in runtime.
If the Nichia NSPW500GS-K1 are not ideal for the Tikka Plus, what are the best LED's to use? Maybe just a different Vf rated one to solve the over driven issue?


----------



## joao2004 (Jun 1, 2010)

Gazoola said:


> If I wanted to confirm the mA draw of my own original Tikka Plus, I should switch to high mode then measure with a multimeter (set to Amps) in series between the battery negative and the circuit. Then take this number and divide by the 4 LED's - right?



Yes...


----------



## Gazoola (Jun 1, 2010)

joao2004 said:


> The 22R resistor was calculated so that with 1.3v per cell (nimh), the current in each led is ~30mA (nichia gs max continuous value)
> 
> Original leds are very overdriven... with 1.5v (fresh alkaline) ~100mA per led!!!
> 
> My nichia gs have lower Vf than the original leds, so if i didn't change the resistor they would be even more overdriven than the original leds... don't know how much the nichia can take ...


I can't find any other mention of anyone who has changed this resistor.
As you did it some time ago, can you report on how your Tikka Plus is working today?
Was the resistor change difficult and could it be done by a novice with a cheap 30w Weller soldering iron?
Do you have a pic of which resistor was changed?
Thanks


----------



## joao2004 (Jun 1, 2010)

Don't change the resistor!!!
I made some measurements this morning, and there's no need to change it... :thinking:

Tikka+ input voltage vs current per led









So starting with 3 fresh Alkaline cells (4,5V) the nichias will drive at 60mA, yes they are over-driven... but that will go down from there, i tested a nichia at 100 mA and it looked ok...

But with NiMH, will have an average of 3,6V... and that will be around 30 mA... just perfect!!! I think i will put back the original resistors!!!


----------



## Gazoola (Jun 1, 2010)

joao2004 said:


> So starting with 3 fresh Alkaline cells (4,5V) the nichias will drive at 60mA, yes they are over-driven... but that will go down from there.



Sounds good!! So no fancy resistor replacement needed. :twothumbs:
What level were your measurements based on: Low - Medium or High?
Furthermore, what Vf for the Nichia NSPW500GS-K1 LED's were you using too?

Sorry to be a pain, but I am trying to understand this so it makes sense...


----------



## tnuckels (Jun 1, 2010)

In reply to *Gazoola*’s PM:

Our modded TIKKA Plus light is still working fine, though it gets somewhat less use of late. No real test data, just that it is definitely brighter, whiter, and runs a good long while between battery changes.

Changing the resistor may well get you into the sweet spot for running the LEDs at spec., but most reputable manufacturers (Peak, ARC, etc.) seem OK with overdriving them. IIRC, the ARC AAA is run at about 45mA. Also, being direct drive, won’t the LEDs initially be overdriven, then as the batteries drain drop through the sweet spot, and eventually be under-driven as they tail off?

My assumption in simply swapping LEDs with no other changes is based on the repeated mantra that Nichia makes the toughest LEDs on the market, probably tougher than the LEDs Petzl originally put in the light, so a bit of abuse wouldn’t be a problem. Overdriving will give more light, cause some color shift (toward blue?), and hasten the demise of extremely long lived LEDs. 

Smoke ‘em if you’ve got ‘em …


----------



## joao2004 (Jun 1, 2010)

It's all on HI...

All values i've posted were taken with a single Led (tikka original / Nichia NSPW500GS-K1), series 6R8 resistor (same value as tikka+, it has one resistor per led).






Vf (V) / If (mA) of Tikka+ original led




Vf (V) / If (mA) of Nichia led


----------



## Gazoola (Jun 2, 2010)

Hey joao2004, they're great tables. It seems that the Nichia are less over driven than the original LED's.

There is just one thing I noticed from a previous post by Cemoi https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3062740&postcount=8 where it mentions that the Nichia drew more mA at all light levels (low, med and high) as follows:
Original LEDs: 100mA / 25mA / 10mA
Nichia LEDs: 120mA / 35mA / 15mA

This seems to contradict your results.
How can this be explained?


----------



## joao2004 (Jun 2, 2010)

Gazoola said:


> Hey joao2004, they're great tables. It seems that the Nichia are less over driven than the original LED's.
> 
> There is just one thing I noticed from a previous post by Cemoi https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3062740&postcount=8 where it mentions that the Nichia drew more mA at all light levels (low, med and high) as follows:
> Original LEDs: 100mA / 25mA / 10mA
> ...



Tikka+ with diferente leds??? or values might be incorrect... if i measure the current in my multimeter in the 10A range (very low resistance is inserted) i get 210mA, using the 400mA range (the inserted resistance will be significant, because a little voltage drop will cause the current on the led to change widely ...) i get 165mA 
(all values i have posted were taken with DMM in the 10A range)


----------



## joao2004 (Jun 2, 2010)

I decided to put back the original 6R8 resistors , but some were damaged... so i place 5R (in fact i had to make parallels of 10R :huh: )

Photo without the 4 resistors and after... (resistors are a little to big, for the board...)




I made kind of a lightbox, to compare between using 22R and 5R: :twothumbs





It looks good to me!!! They will be a "little" overdriven, but like someone said, the nichias are not some crappy chinese leds... they will last less, but still a long time (any way i'm using it a few hours/year)...

*Lux comparative of the following leds:*
Tikka+ original led
Nichia
 0.5W led
Superflux (Nichia)
5mm led from a "3in1 Flavour Light" flashlight


----------



## Gazoola (Jun 2, 2010)

Wow! That is awesome!! 
The Nichia's absolutely kill the original LED's for light output!

I am amazed how you have casually done these tests and measurements and the bit about the range on a multimeter Amp setting giving different results is interesting from my electronic newbie perspective.

Well even though I don't fully understand all the formula's and calculations behind the tables etc, I think that the upgrade is without doubt worth doing - Time to buy some Nichia LED's!! :twothumbs


----------



## joao2004 (Jun 2, 2010)

This was something i intended to do some months ago (almost a year ago??? :huh now it's done... modded as it should at first!!!


----------



## joao2004 (Jun 5, 2010)

Run time test of my modded tikka+.
I think the original is rated at 50 lumen, (with alkaline i guess...), so i am getting nice results :twothumbs
Must make a longer log, because when i stopped the output was already low, but still useful and i guess it would stay that way for awhile...


----------



## Cemoi (Aug 14, 2010)

Gazoola said:


> There is just one thing I noticed from a previous post by Cemoi https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3062740&postcount=8 where it mentions that the Nichia drew more mA at all light levels (low, med and high) as follows:
> Original LEDs: 100mA / 25mA / 10mA
> Nichia LEDs: 120mA / 35mA / 15mA
> 
> ...



Sorry Gazoola for not replying earlier, I've been away from CPF for a while, only back recently.
The above values were measured by putting a 1 ohm resistor in series with a 3-AAA battery case connected to the Tikka, and measuring the voltage accross the resistor. Please note these are current draw values (i.e. the power drain on the batteries), not the current through the LEDs.


----------

