# FUELON GAS SAVER



## FASTCAR (Jul 30, 2007)

I wrote about fuelon a few months ago. Several na-sayers here in the peanut gallery spoke badly as expected..never using it.

I have used this product for 10 years now in my personal and race cars.It always works.

Here is actual data from a $10 000 data logger off 1 of the race cars.this is all from a truck that gets a mixed loop.Roughly the same route weekly.40+ tanks of gas in a row..TESTED.

This canyon had 13 miles ( brand new) when test started.

First third is 87 Oct
Second third is 93 Oct
Last third is 87 Oct+fuelon power

I have not logged the last 3 tanks, MPG has gone up even more now.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/wqan531/2006%20CANYON/My%20Mileage/b6790b6d95495cdccdaba6d182a.png

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/...ON/My Mileage/b6790b6d95495cdccdaba6d182a.png


Here at my shop I have used Fuelon in easily 10 000 cars, trucks or boats(also a home heating oil product).I have seen with my own eyes on my gear, emissions drop 50-95%..not once but 100s of times.

EVERY single car gains power on the dyno..some more then others.
EVERY single car/truck gains M.P.G...also some more then others

I have seen from 10-35 horsepower to the ground and 2-9 M.P.G. gain.Gains vary alot..not sure why.Always works though.

B4 some 1 asks : This is used by 100s of countries, fleets of trucks, state police,military,cabs,power plants , homes and boats all over.


**I do not work for ,or get paid by fuelon : Not in any shape or form at all.

For me its about the power. Letting some borderline race cars pass state tests for the street is a nice side effect.I do not mind the MPG either.I run this product in my cars, trucks, boats, jet ski, lawnmower and small tools.Our Ohio house uses heating oil, I use a fuelon product for that also with GREAT savings.


B4 some 1 here quotes some bogus 1980 test from the EPA.
The EPA, FDA, FTC and others have interests.That interest is making money.If you think our G-Ment would not lie to us to make a buck..your a newbie.Not long ago, smoking was "good" for you.The list goes on.I will not go more into this..those that know..know.


I am ONLY writing this because I believe in this product.I know 100% for sure it works as stated.I have made CPF my family.If I found out how to extend life +100 years I would write about that also.
Need Apple Quicktime to view this.
http://www.fuelon.com/fuelonmovie.html

I must say I use more then the instructions tell you.Listed is 1OZ per tank of gas.From years of testing I have found its more like 2.5 OZ per 10 gallons of gas.

Some 1 here is foaming at the mouth,ready to "debunk" fuelon..im sure.( I would bet 500 bucks they never tried it).That said read below.

***I sent a sample 1 tank treatment to Mike at PTS flashlights.Feel free to ask him what happened.As far as I know he is a regular joe.Not some racer or scientist.


**I have found that all fuel related areas stay clean and dont get dirty.This alone is good for keeping a car running its best at all times.Will not hurt O2 sensor or gaskets.

Retail price is roughly 1$ an Oz.My SUV gains +4ish MPG on fuelon. It pays for itself for sure not to mention reducing green house gasses.

Huge thumbs up on this USA made product.:thumbsup:

Enough for now

My 2 cents


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## zk188 (Jul 30, 2007)

How does it work?


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## TedTheLed (Jul 30, 2007)




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## BB (Jul 30, 2007)

Not that it matters to anyone... But the EPA back in 1991 ran two vehicles on Fuelon for 1,000 miles each testing the claims for a cleaner running car and better fuel mileage...



> The overall conclusion from these tests is that the Fuelon
> Power gasoline fuel additive did not significantly reduce
> vehicle emissions or improve fuel economy for either the FTP or
> HFET. The additive clearly did not reduce vehicle exhaust
> ...


Here are the EPA of tests of various things to "improve" car engines... Seems to be mostly products from the 1980's and 1970's.

Here is a more recent Denver Post article (July 4, 2007) on fuel additives and other things:



> The Environmental Protection Agency's Ann Arbor laboratory tested 93 additives, modifications and other products that claim to improve fuel economy. None received the agency's seal of approval.
> 
> The lab's analysis, spanning 30 years, found only 10 devices that showed even a small improvement in fuel economy, and four of those increased emissions.
> ...
> ...



From what little I have read before... The fuel additives that have been found to help engines run cleaner (cleaning injectors, etc.), are now required to be added to all automotive fuels now. So adding additional detergents may not help anything in a normally operating engine--unless the vehicle currently has problems and a fuel detergent can help remove the deposits.

-Bill


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## zk188 (Jul 30, 2007)

I smell advertising.


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## Marduke (Jul 30, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> Retail price is roughly 1$ an Oz.My SUV gains +4ish MPG on fuelon. It pays for itself



You know what else gets you an extra +4mpg for _free_? Driving 5 mph slower. You'd be amazed if you went from driving 70+ mph to 55mph (for example, I settle for 60-65mph).


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## FASTCAR (Jul 30, 2007)

The dyno, track and data logger dont lie.

If i was an oil comp. I would not want the hundreds of "pro" studies published either.This would mean a HUGE loss of money. 

Rule #1 : increase profits for shareholders.If every person used less and less gas , profits would drop.Why would oil comps. get studies published that more or less would decrease profits.

Fuelon has 100s and 100s of studies done by 3rd parties proving it works.Even M.I.T. Im sure they will send ya some If you call.

I can say personally I have tested it 1000s of times..and it works.

Im curious BB can you say you have tried it and it didnt work?


***Drugs work the same way.Drug comps fund studies done and pay the salary of the FDA and FTC.One day so and so drug is the best ever and safe..years later ( viox and 50+ others) killed 1000s and caused problems for as many....Now they are off the market.


I do not use this because I get paid.I use it as a racer because it works, period.

Perhaps PTS mike will chime in


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## zk188 (Jul 30, 2007)

Strange the only studies i found were proving it a scam.


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## MorePower (Jul 30, 2007)

zk188 said:


> Strange the only studies i found were proving it a scam.



That's because there are no reputable studies showing that it works, for you to find.

Looking at the posted graph, I have to wonder why Fuelon Power only improved the MPG 4 times out of 15 tanks of gas? That seems odd, for such a revolutionary product.

Here's a page with some good points to consider:
http://www.fuelsaving.info/conspiracy.htm


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## FASTCAR (Jul 30, 2007)

Actually I was fooling with the amount used as test for myself.The huge spikes are all 2.5 OZ for 10 gals...others were 1Oz
I actually use in the race cars what works out to 3oz per 10 gals.

What makes me laugh is all CPFers want phots and charts always.

I include a chart with 100% proof and yall still yap away..now thats funny.


They have a 100% money back deal. :thumbsup:

**I was like some of yall years ago. I also thought it was snake oil like many products. Then I tried it...all I can say

Use it..or dont, I dont care. Just passing along info I know is 100% true as I have tested it personally.


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## knot (Jul 30, 2007)

Why buy Fuelon when you can just buy pure acetone cheaply. Check google videos.

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/


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## BB (Jul 30, 2007)

Nope, I have not used Fuelon... I posted all I knew about the product and my experiences (admittedly small) regarding fuel additives and what I have read.

Notice, I did not say it could not work. I just said that for normally running vehicles it probably does not really help.

Octane boosters (don't think Fuelon is one--but it is possible), do work--but that is only true for engines that are designed to run at compression ratios, boost levels, and engine temperatures where pre-ignition ("knocking") limits horse power because of the limitations in lower octane fuel.

In my days past, used to hang around an airport where you, if you could get it, ran 115/145 octane (think those numbers are correct) military aviation fuel for piston engines, you could run full military boost on the engines (P51, F4U Corsair, BearCat, Hawker SeaFury). The pilot/owners would put 150 gallon drop tanks on the wings (2 tanks each plane) and get "free fuel" for showing up at military air-shows.

Generally did not use military boost much--something like 300 GPH on the big radials (this is back when aviation fuel was still well under $2.00 per gallon).

Point me to any links of studies that say what Fuelon is made of, how it is supposed to work, and demonstrate Fuelon will help a normally running car--I would be willing to be proven wrong.

I have also seen fuel changes cause problems... Additives have etched fuel systems (methanol?), destroyed self sealing tanks (toluene?), old carburetors with varnished cork floats that sank with new fuels, aircraft engines that have valves seize mid flight when using 100LL AvGas (Low Lead replacement for the old 80 and 100 octane fuels). Then new low sulfur diesel fuel cause injection pump seals fail with 1-2 tank fulls of the new fuel.

Using any additive without knowledge of the content and possible effects is always a cr*pshoot.

Always willing to learn.

-Bill


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## Fallingwater (Jul 30, 2007)

How is this *not* advertising?


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## Led_Blind (Jul 30, 2007)

it could be advertising. What i want it the thory behind the idea and a test bed that eliminates the driver as an influence. 

I am not suggesting you changed your driving habits for the test. I would believe the results more if this testing was done with the engine on a testbed where all variables are controled. Using a variety of engines like turbo, super, na, deisel will help explain your results as well as using different grade fuel.

Good luck!


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## meuge (Jul 30, 2007)

I concur. Ban the scammer.


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## zk188 (Jul 30, 2007)

He should be:banned:


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## FASTCAR (Jul 30, 2007)

I hope your not calling me a scammer. I have not "scammed " any person on CPF ever. Be carefull.

Nor do I sell Fuelon.

I thought cafe was an area to talk about whatever.


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## goldenlight (Jul 30, 2007)

Marduke said:


> You know what else gets you an extra +4mpg for _free_? Driving 5 mph slower. You'd be amazed if you went from driving 70+ mph to 55mph (for example, I settle for 60-65mph).



At 65 MPH, the average vehicle uses 25% more fuel than at 55 MPH.

At 75 MPH, the average vehicle uses 40% more fuel than at 55 MPH.

That's why, during the earlier fuel crisis, speed limits were set to 55 MPH.

I happen to think they should be returned to 55 MPH.

It would greatly reduce our oil imports, and foreign trade imbalances.

The price of gasoline could go down, since the criminals (IMHO) who run the major oil companies and claim the reason for high fuel cost is due to lack of refinery capacity (...since Exon closed about 20 refineries in recent years, IIRC) there would be ample refinery capacity.


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## FASTCAR (Jul 30, 2007)

Tried acetone years ago.It does work.Not as well though. Fuelon has some acetone in it along with 100+ other things.


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## Mike Painter (Jul 30, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> The dyno, track and data logger dont lie.
> 
> If i was an oil comp. I would not want the hundreds of "pro" studies published either.This would mean a HUGE loss of money.



And if I were an auto company spending billions to improve gas mileage I would incorperate a dispenser in the design of the vehicle.

Note also that a reduction in fuel use might reduce oil company costs because it would save them from building new refineries.

When I moved here 20 years ago PG&E insulated my roof and gave me a few other energy savings devices based on this idea.

EPA results


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## Marduke (Jul 30, 2007)

I know! I know! Let's all put mothballs in our gas tanks to boost the octane... :twothumbs

http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf88588382.tip.html
http://community.discoverychannel.ca/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/36810831/m/645103282


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## knot (Jul 30, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> Tried acetone years ago.It does work.




False: http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/acetone.asp


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## 65535 (Jul 30, 2007)

Mothballs do work ask myth busters.


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## Marduke (Jul 30, 2007)

65535 said:


> Mothballs do work ask myth busters.



I love Mythbusters, but "sounds better reving" isn't exactly "scientific." But let's not go down the mothball road too...


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## gadget_lover (Jul 31, 2007)

Charts only tell half the story; Controlled conditions are required to make valid conclusions.

If this is not advertising, why is the first post 2 dozen sentences/paragraphs claiming how good and cheap it is, and stressing that it has a guarantee?

It's easy to discredit the contrary claims if you start with assertion that the EPA and everyone else is biased and work forward from there.

I'd prefer that people don't drop strange chemicals in their gas tank. Just because the monitored emissions don't go up does not ensure that toxic chemicals are not being produced. We all end up breathing what comes out of the tailpipe.

Daniel


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## nightgaunt (Jul 31, 2007)

Used it in 10,000 vehicles? Come on...this is getting deep. There is no way you can get 10-35 hp to the ground with an "additive"...unless you are running methanol/alcohol in a high compression racing engine. No way.

Reading that initial post gave me a headache. Random ramblings!

How about a tuneup? Or inflating your tires to proper pressures? Or not accelerating like a crazy person from a stoplight? THAT'S how you gain/maintain MPG. Not snake oil.


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## Oznog (Jul 31, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> Here is actual data from a $10 000 data logger off 1 of the race cars.this is all from a truck that gets a mixed loop.Roughly the same route weekly.40+ tanks of gas in a row..TESTED.



Huh. $10,000 you say? Well then you must know the brand name and model # of your uber lab equipment you know so well. And the name of the software package used to deliver it to that handsomely professional graphic. And the type of engine in that race car.

So, real quick, what's the data logger you used, the engine, and how does that logger work?


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## Oznog (Jul 31, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> The dyno, track and data logger dont lie.
> 
> Fuelon has 100s and 100s of studies done by 3rd parties proving it works.Even M.I.T. Im sure they will send ya some If you call.



Oh so true. And here are the results, along with excruciatingly detailed information on what the test consisted of: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/devices/pb93236693.pdf

Fuelon has no effect _whatsoever_ on MPG. It has an effect on emissions- it increases carbon monoxide production. No effect on any other emission metrics.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Jul 31, 2007)

Proud member of the peanut gallery here. I've never used Fuelon, nor will I. 

Give me half an hour with any decent paint/graphics program and I could come up with "proof" like that. "Gains vary a lot".........that's because the "gains" posted are easily within the standard variation of power and economy due to different gas formulation, weather, and driver's foot(after having bought a new product from a speed shop). Whatever is claimed about not being a dealer, the OP mentioned in the last Fuelon thread that he dumps a bottle of that stuff into every vehicle that comes into his shop. I don't for a second believe that he does this for free, the cost gets passed on to the customer somehow, if not directly then through higher cost of work. Personally, I'd be rather angry if I took my vehicle to a shop and they put ANYTHING but fuel in my fuel tank without my permission.

Still holding up my BS flag where Fuelon is concerned. :buddies:


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## BB (Jul 31, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> I wrote about fuelon a few months ago. Several na-sayers here in the peanut gallery spoke badly as expected..never using it.



Just out of curiosity--where is that thread in CPF? I could not find any other thread with "fuelon" in it (I also check CPFU and CPFMarketPlace).

Should not the two(?) threads be merged--it sounds like we are having the same discussion that you complained about before here(?).

Or, did the previous thread eventually go 

-Bill


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## Trashman (Jul 31, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> Here at my shop I have used Fuelon in easily 10 000 cars, trucks or boats(also a home heating oil product).I have seen with my own eyes on my gear, emissions drop 50-95%..not once but 100s of times.




Hmmm....Used in 10,000 vehicles ("easily!), but emissions dropped only "100s of times?" So, you've noticed an emissions drop less than 10% of the time and that's proof enough for you that it works? A 50% rate of effectiveness is still only "maybe it works, maybe it doesn't...", but a less than 10% rate of effectiveness it far too low for even the best speaker to make a compelling argument!


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## Empath (Jul 31, 2007)

There was a previous thread that evolved into a discussion about additives and mileage enhancement gimmicks. I located that thread yesterday, (or was that earlier this morning?) but don't remember the name of it now. That thread didn't have any participation from a member using the name 'FASTCAR', and it didn't contain the word 'Fuelon'.

There may be another thread dealing with the topic, but I've been unable to locate it. More significantly, my searches find no mention of Fuelon on CPF before this thread.


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## bfg9000 (Jul 31, 2007)

The placebo effect generally works 35% of the time. The shocking thing is that many heavily advertised medicines like antidepressants, etc are only proven to work ~6% better than placebo. That's also why marketers can sell things like $5k power cords to audiophiles... because they'll believe they can hear a difference, even after a double-blind test shows they can't.

BTW mothballs haven't been commonly made from napthalene (which did increase octane) in years, so you're only likely to find para-dichlorobenzene ones (which does not increase octane).


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## Pellidon (Jul 31, 2007)

This sounds to me like Marvel Mystery Oil in many aspects. It doesn't so much add fuel economy as it does restore it through a combination of cleaning and lubrication. It also sounds like my favorite gun cleaner, Ed's Red, a homebrew of transmission fluid, break free, mineral oil, and acetone. A great cleaner and good lubricant and way cheaper than Hoppe's #9. The acetone is optional as it aggressively cleans but tends to evaporate out of the mix quickly. 

Some assertions on speed and fuel economy don't stand up to real world testing. My car, a Kia Rio, was getting 30 or so MPG in a mix of 75% highway and 25% city. I drove it from Indy to Maine one summer. It was cool and I didn't need the AC and was comfy enough to run with the windows closed. Across Ohio I was getting 35 MPG and following the speed limit. Once I left Buffalo, I jacked it up to 80 MPH and left it there except for toll booths and water breaks. I got 42-45 MPG. I was amazed. With AC I got only 37 MPG at 80. Same car at 55-65 can only do 32 MPG. My '04 Spectra had a similar sweet spot at 80. All due to aerodynamics I'm guessing.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Jul 31, 2007)

My searches with both Google and CPF's search engine didn't return any other thread mentioning Fuelon. However, a search of my own posts revealed this thread.

:buddies:


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## BB (Jul 31, 2007)

Apparently search/indexing is still not bulletproof... I used "search this thread" following DB's link--and search still did not find "fuelon" even though I could see it right in the thread.

:shrug:

-Bill


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## mchlwise (Jul 31, 2007)

I googled and found this form an automotive forum:



> thetalonguy
> 09-20-2001, 10:47 PM
> 
> I've tried fuelon, I am using fuelon right now. I didnt notice any increase in power, plus no extra gas mileage. Actually I think it totally blew away my 02 sensor. I am getting wierd readings off my AFC. Once I get my new 02 sensor, i will try it again and see. But I dont think it did anything at all, I am actually thinking about returning it bc the bottle guarantees better gas mileage, It really piseed me off.
> ...


It looks to me like Fastcar's experience is... not typical. :sick2:


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## Empath (Jul 31, 2007)

I added the www to your link, Diesel. Without it, it messes with your cookies and can log you out.

That's puzzling trying to search for the Fuelon. Our search engine can't seem to see it at all.


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## BB (Jul 31, 2007)

Empath said:


> That's puzzling trying to search for the Fuelon. Our search engine can't seem to see it at all.



And here is the reason:



FASTCAR said:


> The EPA, FDA, FTC and others have interests.That interest is making money.If you think our G-Ment would not lie to us to make a buck..your a newbie.Not long ago, smoking was "good" for you.The list goes on.I will not go more into this..those that know..know.



Therefor Sasha is part of this vast government conspiracy. 

-Bill


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## FASTCAR (Jul 31, 2007)

I am curious, all who are following this:

How many have tried fuelon..used the track, dyno, scan tool or just say recorded MPG on a personal car.

I have used all 4.Can you say the same?


On the net you can search any topic or product and find pros and cons about it.

Personally, I think b4 you bash anything..try it.


Rather then just bash away, how about one of you show me YOUR dyno, track or scan tool results showing fuelon does not work.


Again : I do not work for , or get paid in any way, shape or form from Fuelon.
I have TESTED it personally 4 ways and it just works.
Use it or don't, I dont care.


****as for using it in 1000s of cars and 100s dropping emissions:
I do not check gasses out the pipe of every car.Just a few street/strip cars that want to be on the street.I can say 100% that EVERY person calls me after I put a few OZ in.Always the same story.."any reason my MPG is so much better?"



For a goof I spent 15 mins on google. here is some facts I found (some out dated):I guess all are correct because they are offical "studies"
Just a fast few as I dont have time to type 1100000 pages

100s of studies proved with NO doubt that Iraq had a huge cashe of WMDs

In this era 1000s of studies released for PRO smoke..not 1 against
Smoking is good for you
Smoking is less dangerous then milk
Smoking increases life span

I cant type the amount I found about how bad vitamins are..heres a few
Vitamins cause cancer
Vitamin D causes liver failure
Vitamins do not destroy free radicals
All vitamins you need come from what you eat

Actually found 1 study by a vodka comp. from ayears ago that stated:
Drinking adds no more danger to driving then having 1 head light out.

I guess all this is true..it was "Studied" after all



Just saying folks,not all you read is true. Maybee its me. I like to try things for myself and make a decision based on my learings.I guess I am not a sheep like most.Be it foods, lights, car stuff stereo or whatever.


In 30 seconds I found 10 studies that said acetone DOES work..and 10 that said it does NOT.


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## knot (Jul 31, 2007)

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/devices/pb93236693.pdf


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## FASTCAR (Jul 31, 2007)

Yep seen that 100s of times.
Study funded by Big Oil..wonder why it failed


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## knot (Jul 31, 2007)

MY mileage varies widely from tank to tank. There's no way I would be able to tell if the product worked. Variables such as barometric pressure (maybe), ambient temperature, how long I stop at lights, how fast I accelerate, the grade of hills I drive, the speed I drive on the grade, passengers in car, etc, etc, etc...............

I no longer fill my tank, for savings in weight, which translates to better fuel economy.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Jul 31, 2007)

Fastcar-

I think you're missing a point. To all of us reading your posts on Fuelon, your posts are just another one of the "pros" found on the net, just like the ones dug up by Google and carrying just as much credibility. The EPA and other studies carry more credit, and my own knowledge of engines tells me that 2.5oz of ANYTHING, including water, per tank just isn't going to do anything. Coupled with your refusal/inability to explain how Fuelon creates such an performance boost, and the case is sealed.

I thank you for spreading the word about a product that works so well for you. If you ever get to my corner of the world I'll buy you a cup of coffee. As for Fuelon, that's another story.

:buddies:


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## knot (Jul 31, 2007)

Wheelwell skirts would improve MPG but would be ugly as hell.


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## Marduke (Jul 31, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> I am curious, all who are following this:
> 
> How many have tried fuelon..used the track, dyno, scan tool or just say recorded MPG on a personal car.
> 
> ...



There have been plenty of people who have proven that falling from high distances such as buildings and bridges and airplanes is extremely fatal. I have no inclination to try it myself just to make sure that a sudden splat at the end is the usual outcome. However, there have been some cases of people surviving falls from 10000ft or more, but that still doesn't mean I want to try it just because there is a chance it will all work out. :thumbsup:



FASTCAR said:


> Yep seen that 100s of times.
> Study funded by Big Oil..wonder why it failed



By any chance do you have a bunker with 2 years worth of food and a stockpile of weapons under your house to keep you safe for when the economy falls apart and the country is thrown into chaos? Do you find yourself looking over your shoulder all the time, keeping an eye out for those shifty CIA guys out to steel your gas guzzling SUV? You know, the same guys who assassinated JFK from the grassy knoll...


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## MorePower (Jul 31, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> Yep seen that 100s of times.
> Study funded by Big Oil..wonder why it failed



If these types of additives had any beneficial effect, then they would be used in and supported by the governments of countries which import virtually all their oil, like Japan.

If "Big Oil" is suppressing the miracle additive that Fuelon apparently is, why aren't they also fighting the development of diesel vehicles (which are more fuel efficient than their gas counterparts) or hybrid vehicles (also more efficient)?

I think I'm done here; it's pretty clear that no one is going to change their mind.


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## DonShock (Jul 31, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> Yep seen that 100s of times.
> Study funded by Big Oil..wonder why it failed


So the 15% increase in mileage claimed by Fuelon is enough incentive for Big Oil to falsify studies to show it doesn't work. But positive studies promoted by Fuelon, who gets 100% of their money from this product, are trustworthy?
:thinking:


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## BVH (Jul 31, 2007)

If my calcs are correct, it takes a minimum of an 8.5% increase in mileage to recover the costs of buying and using the additive based on the 2.5 Oz per 10 gallons mix ratio.


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## Marduke (Jul 31, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> This canyon had 13 miles ( brand new) when test started.
> 
> First third is 87 Oct
> Second third is 93 Oct
> ...



Three problems with this:
1) You got lower gas milage when switching from 87 to 93 octane, but a snake oil supposedly improved it?
2) The spikes in section 3 cannot be used because they fall outside the standard deviation, which then gives you a lower mean mpg than section 1
3) Your vehicle started out with only 13 miles. It takes several hundred miles for a new vehicle's computer to tune itself to it's environment and the habits of it's driver, and it takes several thousand miles for even a modern vehicle to "break in" the engine and other components. Anyone who knows anything doesn't put any importance on the mpg of a new vehicle until after the second oil change.


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## FASTCAR (Jul 31, 2007)

Fuelon is not an octane booster.
As for other countries using fuelon..20+ DO use it at the pump actually.As does the US military and others.
Well Im about done on this thread.

Again folks, rather then guess ,TEST it as I did.All your guesses or speculation are meaningless. 

Some of you can think or say it does not work. My daddy use to say : The proof is in da puddin'....I tasted the puddin' and it was good 


***I actually called the home office, they will send hundreds of tests and documents from 3rd parties if you ask .See how those tests went.I have some in front of me and its shocking.Same stuff I see over and over.

I have no interests in Fuelon except to pass along that it works as it claims.I have included a test .I have others ..but I see no reason posting them.
I guess you can assume I wrote all this just because I was bored .
OR that I wanted to make claims about a product I dont make a dime off of.Or that I just wanted to lie about a random event to flashlight guys to impress them.

b4 I spout off, pro or con about a subject..I know 100% for sure what im talking about.In this case I have tested this product ( several ways). I can say it works from my tests.I have no motivation to lie..NONE of you have tested or tried it..JUST talked.

Please feel free to PM me if /when 1 of you stops talking and actually tries it.


Im done here, best wishes to all.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 31, 2007)

I gave up reading all the posts here as there is a lot of nonsense. But I don't think FastCar is nonsense. I think he's got something and the way he presented it does not call for a bunch of newbie's saying 'ban him'. Since I didn't read the whole thread I don't know if it has been pointed out how large of a percent of every dollar you spend on gas goes directly to our government. It's a ridiculous amount and while I can't quote it at the minute it used to be posted on every pump of a certain brand in another state I lived in. I was shocked the first time I saw how much goes to the government. If you have been around long enough and had your ears and eyes open as I suspect FastCar has then you'll listen up to what he's saying. If you dig deep enough - and that takes work - you'll find who's behind what studies and why. Ditto on the drug companies. There is a massive marketing effort to keep the sheeple from the truth. Which is just another way to say - yes there is a conspiracy - and I don't give a darn if that word turns a lot of people off. I've dug and dug very deep on some of this stuff. And not just info from the Internet but face to face with people with personal knowledge of details. So before you sit there judging which side to jump on here why don't you go out and actually do a little personal research on some of this. It might just freak you out so bad you'll go into total denial. But hopefully after some point it'll begin to add up to awaken you to the real truth. I personally haven't tried Fuelon so I could be completely wrong about this particular thing and FastCar but in general the concepts of which he speaks are something I personally have found to be right on.


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## Oznog (Jul 31, 2007)

Oznog said:


> Huh. $10,000 you say? Well then you must know the brand name and model # of your uber lab equipment you know so well. And the name of the software package used to deliver it to that handsomely professional graphic. And the type of engine in that race car.
> 
> So, real quick, what's the data logger you used, the engine, and how does that logger work?




Well, FASTCAR?

You still haven't told us any technical details about the equipment you personally used to show this performance. The equipment you claim to be familiar with.


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## FASTCAR (Aug 1, 2007)

As I said , I am done with this silly post.

I have several race /show cars. All with different setups. 
I did not answer because to be honest, I assume most/all here have no idea what any of it is. Not to mention,OZNOG..I dont think you know much about this at all..Also I never said anything about "uber " this or that.***ALso OZNOG like most kids these days that use UBER. Uber means over or above ( mostly)..thats just a FYI
That test as stated was on a new truck.

Often I use a custom OBDI data log setup.DFI on my stang.Few of the cars have pocket loggers. I prefer the laptop though.I like to see 20 perams and a palm is just to small.

I race 1G DSMs ( laser eclipse talon). Motors start off a 2.0L.
Boost depends on car. 18ish on the street 25-38 on the track with 118PEL of corse.PEL is hard to get these days though.Not to mention the havok lead plays on the O2 sensor.Turbos are 750+ CFM. Many DSMs ( laser eclipse talon and EVO turbos) run 9-10-11s these days.90% have scan tools /data log gear.

Street cars are 2400ish LBS ( gutted ) ULW tires and rims.

I can go on and on, I dont see the point or how it relates to fuelon.
Your welcome to start a car thread Oznog and I can teach ya some stuff.


As for Shamen: Sir you are dead on.

Again folks Im done here. Take care



***Note to self : Not 1 person in the peanut gallery said " I got that stuff..tried it and it did'nt work at all OR blew up my car"...not 1


Flame away:sigh:


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## Led_Blind (Aug 1, 2007)

Everyone, please stop making personal attacks on someone who has different beliefs. You all know how that ends. 

FastCar, if your experience is positive then great, use the product and reap the benefits. 

The problem most of us have with these products are the intangible benefits and the lack of true testing. What is true testing? As described earlier it requires different engine types, different fuel types and grades, removal of outside influences like the driver, the car and the environment and the ability to replicate results outside the test group (there are probably a few i forgot). I am a hard science guy (and explains my confusion over religion based conflicts) and I have yet to see a study on this product done in this way and so reserve judgement. 

A tidbit on Acetone. It will increase efficiency BUT only in old inefficient carburettor vehicles. It improves efficiency in one way, better fuel vaporisation. In anything with a good carbie or is fuel injected will see minimal to zero improvement. If we were living in the 60’s and 70’s I would have no hesitation to recommend its use, but then again there would be no internet ….. 

In a racing application where an engine is at full throttle you may just see benefits in these types of products. A normal family car is tuned specifically to have the best fuel economy when cruising and tend to run more rich under load. Any additive that allows you to get closer to the magic 14or so t0 1 air fuel ratio under load WILL give an efficiency boost at high engine loads.

Here is a quick question to all the neigh sayers, and i dont want a single line answers as they will probably be incorrect.
Why do high performance (including forced induction) cars prefer high octane fuel and how does this differ from the fuel requirements for diesel vehicles? Please relate this cursing v's performance efficiency.

I will probably get flamed for offering a different point of view but will only listen to the flamers when you can demonstrate a real understanding of engines….


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## BVH (Aug 1, 2007)

Isn't acetone a known carcinogen?

Edit: Looks like it was believed to be one some time ago but was re-classified. Maybe I was thinking of Benzine.


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## gadget_lover (Aug 1, 2007)

Led_Blind said:


> Here is a quick question to all the neigh sayers, and i dont want a single line answers as they will probably be incorrect.
> Why do high performance (including forced induction) cars prefer high octane fuel and how does this differ from the fuel requirements for diesel vehicles? Please relate this cursing v's performance efficiency.



I don't see what the need for higher octane in high compression engines has to do with the additive that fastcar is shilling. He said it was not an octane booster.

On the other hand, it's not real clear exactly what the stuff is supposed to be.

I'll leave it to someone else to explain the compression - predetonation - octane issue.



Daniel


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## Diesel_Bomber (Aug 1, 2007)

I'll bite.

A gasoline(spark ignition) engine intakes and compresses a flammable air/fuel mixture. As this mixture is compressed, it heats up, easily to a temperature which will cause ignition without a spark. This ignition, before the spark plug fires and ignites the air/fuel mixture at the proper time, is called pre-ignition, and higher octane fuel resists pre-ignition until the spark plug fires and causes the air fuel mixture to ignite when it should. A higher performance engine generally has a higher compression pressure than a lower performance engine, therefor requiring a higher octane fuel to resist ignition at the higher temperatures and pressures experienced.

A diesel(compression ignition) engine intakes and compresses only air. This time heating the air to a temperature above that which will ignite the fuel is a good thing(to a point). At the proper time fuel is injected into the combustion chamber, into all that hot air, where the fuel is ignited by the heated air. Diesel fuel rating(cetane) is nearly opposite that of gasoline(octane), in that it's important for the fuel to ignite immediately upon contact with this heated air, and not to delay combustion in a high pressure/temperature environment like a high octane fuel would.

There's another term often confused with pre-ignition in the spark ignition world, and that's detonation. Detonation occurs when the air/fuel mixture in a gasoline engine is being compressed and all of it ignites at one time, or ignites from at least two separate points and the flame fronts run into each other, creating a large pressure spike instead of a smooth flame front moving out from the spark plug. Both pre-ignition and detonation can cause severe damage.

Note: This is all very much simplified. I'm well aware of several more complicating factors, and while I don't at all claim to be on the level of someone who builds dragsters and racecars for a living, I'm not totally ignorant either.

I just can't see how a .19% change(2.5oz per every 1280oz) is going to make any difference. It might make an unmeasurable difference in a carb'd or mechanically fuel injected engine that can't change it's air/fuel mixture if that air/fuel mixture just happened to be off in the right direction for the Fuelon to fix. If the carb'd vehicle was running a bit lean and the Fuelon is a denser fuel than gasoline(kerosene maybe?), it would richen the mixture by that absolutely tiny amount. Or if Fuelon is a less dense fuel or even an oxygenate(alcohol, mtbe, etc), and the carb'd vehicle was running a bit rich, same thing in reverse. .19% though, we're talking unmeasurable changes here. An electronically fuel injected car capable of adjusting it's own fuel mixture via input from on O2 sensor wouldn't be affected at all; it'd just adjust itself back into spec. What else could Fuelon be? Just an octane booster? Already been said that's not the case. Something like water, that doesn't contribute to combustion per se, but evaporates and cools the air/fuel mixture so that it doesn't pre-ignite or detonate? A hydrocarbon with a high end point that stays liquid in the combustion chamber, and then evaporates and cools while everything else is combusting, could cool the cylinder enough to prevent detonation. Maybe a lubricant? But a lubricant added to the fuel could only lube a little bit of the intake valve. Some chemical that fools the O2 sensor into reading richer or leaner, so the computer will adjust in the opposite direction? That'd hardly work for all vehicles, for obvious reasons. If Fuelon works so great, what is it and what does it do? :thinking:

Throw us a bone here. :buddies:


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## Led_Blind (Aug 1, 2007)

Not bad DB, almost there. The octane is used as an example and your explanation touches on many of the points of the discussion. It should allow you to start thinking about engine tuning for pre-ignition, pinging, detonation etc. These are the things manufacturers try to avoid in their cars and its a fine balance. 

How can a fuel additive improve performance and where is that performance realised? A start is to understand why turbo cars run very rich fuel mixes when on boost? Think pre-ignition and detonation. Now incorporate cam timing and tuning and relate that back to the octane rating. You should start to see the inefficiencies. 

The humble internal combustion engine is a tricky beast. While they are very simple to understand and make work, tuning for maximum efficiency is something entirely different and is dependant on the duty of that engine. A petrol car engine is at best 15% efficient, a petrol engine designed to run at fixed revs for its life can be up to 35%(or more) efficient. 

One of the best examples i have ever come across for improving passenger vehicle engine efficiency is to use a constantly variable transmission (CVT) mated to a lower revving higher torque engine. Think truck style engines in your car, rev to 3k max but are much more efficient than your average free revving petrol equivalent. Could you get sport car performance, hell yeah…. If the CVT is up to the job 

No idea what fuelon is tho..... but if you ever see a fuel aditive for both petrol and diesel its probably fake, each engine works sufficently differently that a benifit to one is usualy a detriment to the other.


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## Sigman (Aug 1, 2007)

Folks, chill ok?! I found a post with a link that FASTCAR posted in reference to Fuelon by using the CPF Google Search at the top of the page. 

I've not tried or researched the product and he's not selling it here. Looks to me he's professing his belief in the product. I'd have to try it to form an opinion - so listen up, quit attacking the poster and attack the post if you wish - but stop the name calling!


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## dano (Aug 1, 2007)

I'd like to see the dyno info posted, same car before and after.

Anacdotal evidence is worthless.

Here's an abstract from the EPA:
http://www.energystorm.us/Emissions...e_Fuel_Additive_Technical_Report-r111318.html

I also find it interesting that the only car forums talking about Fuelon are DSM related, and a majority of the "reviews" are negative.

--dan


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## BB (Aug 1, 2007)

I think that is the 4th link to the same EPA document (the other three earlier links go to the original scanned PDF itself--And I posted a section from it).

I guess my frustration is that here is a report from two test labs (I think that is what is it says) that both reached the same conclusion. No response such as "here is where they went wrong in their testing" or how a test with a 2007 model car with full emissions control (injectors, computer, O2 sensor, knock sensor, etc.) is helped with Fuelon... But, instead, a preemptive post right at the beginning that said:



FASTCAR said:


> B4 some 1 here quotes some bogus 1980 test from the EPA.
> 
> The EPA, FDA, FTC and others have interests.That interest is making money.If you think our G-Ment would not lie to us to make a buck..your a newbie.Not long ago, smoking was "good" for you.The list goes on.I will not go more into this..those that know..know.


And as Diesel Bomber has said, modern cars with O2 sensors will simply adjust the fuel/air mixture to bring everything back to optimum--regardless of the additive. For example, ethanol is supposed to add oxygen to the fuel and lean out the mixture for a cleaner burn. This only works in engines without O2 sensors--in the modern car--nothing will change (except poor fuel mileage as more fuel is injected to make up for the lower BTU content / extra oxygen per gallon of Ethanol).

There is also another reason why "modern" cars do not use lean burn techniques (which really do increase efficiency) now... Simply, the hotter combustion simply creates more Oxides of Nitrogen and a an exhaust gas mixture which does not respond well to normal catalytic converters. Honda had the original VTEC engine--but had to drop it as emissions requirements tightened. Turns out that the normal 14:1 stoichiometric air/fuel mixture works best with catalytic converters (which reduce emissions roughly by a factor of 100).

There are other techniques out there (like stratified charge--gasoline) engines which attempt to balance out the engineering issues of economy, power, and emissions... But, in the end, I don't see how an ounce or two of additive will have much positive change to a well running/designed/modern gasoline engine.

Regarding:



FASTCAR said:


> Tried acetone years ago.It does work.Not as well though. Fuelon has some acetone in it along with 100+ other things.



I believe that this is a real GM service bulletin--Found it quoted several places (but, this is the Internet after all):



> Bulletin No.: 05-00-89-072
> Date: October 24, 2005
> INFORMATION
> 
> ...


If Fuelon contains Acetone--I assume that GM will void your warranty if they catch you putting Fuelon in your car and are having weird fuel system/engine problems.

See lots of reasons never to use Fuelon, have seen few reasons to use it.

-Bill


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## Diesel_Bomber (Aug 1, 2007)

Led_Blind said:


> How can a fuel additive improve performance and where is that performance realised? A start is to understand why turbo cars run very rich fuel mixes when on boost? Think pre-ignition and detonation. Now incorporate cam timing and tuning and relate that back to the octane rating. You should start to see the inefficiencies.



I did say it was very much simplified. I am very well aware that there are other complicating factors, that all parts of engine tuning are a compromise. What I don't understand is how Fuelon could possibly fix *any* of them.

I'd like someone to explain just how Fuelon works. That's it, that's all I want. Instead of claims of perceived increases in performance, I want an explanation of HOW these increases come about? What does Fuelon do? How does it work? Once that is explained to I may well go buy a bottle and try some. I suspect MANY others will as well. Until that explanation is forthcoming, Fuelon is snake oil and nothing more. I'll bow out of this thread until there's an explanation.

Have a good one, all. :buddies:


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## mchlwise (Aug 1, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> ***Note to self : Not 1 person in the peanut gallery said " I got that stuff..tried it and it did'nt work at all OR blew up my car"...not 1



I don't think there is a single person on this board or in this thread who wouldn't love for a product to be available which actually does what Fuelon alleges it does. 

BUT...

There are LOTS of things in life that can be learned from others, and don't have to be experienced personally. There are others that just with careful consideration can be ruled out because they are simply another clever means to separate you from your money. 

There's plenty enough doubt and a lack of multiple positive experiences with Fuelon to ensure that I ain't gonna try it. 

:shrug:


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## Marduke (Aug 2, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> Again : I do not work for , or get paid in any way, shape or form from Fuelon.


 
After a little digging, I found why you love this stuff so much. Fuelon gave you your 60 seconds of fame "Seen in 100 +countries". 


FASTCAR said:


> **Off topic a bit, PLEASE dont delete or close Mods pretty please
> 
> So many here want Pics or video..So here ya go.
> Need Quicktime video player
> ...




https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2091897&postcount=17
http://www.fuelon.com/fuelonmovie.html

If I'm not mistaken, that's a big'ol "Fuelon Power" _*SPONSORSHIP*_ on your vehicle. But no, they don't pay you "in any way, shape or form..." 

That makes at least three different threads where you're pushing this product, one of them created expressly for the purpose of pushing this product, and one of them being _extremely_ off topic (fuel additives in a diffuser material thread???). So, just because they are a sponsor, AND they gave you 60 seconds of fame doesn't mean that your views for this product are maybe a little biased?? And you say that the other studies are corrupt and we're not giving it a fair shake. 

One thread is voicing your opinion, two is a little enthusiastic, three is what I call ADVERTISING!!


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## Trashman (Aug 2, 2007)

Marduke said:


> After a little digging, I found why you love this stuff so much. Fuelon gave you your 60 seconds of fame "Seen in 100 +countries".
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Whoops! Busted! LOL

Way to go, Marduke! You just gave me my biggest laugh of the night!


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## Led_Blind (Aug 2, 2007)

Woopsiedasiy......

No need to continue the theoretical discussion of engines then  

Diesel_Bomber - sorry mate, no intention to offend. Just steer the thread on to how any additive could possibly improve economy. Thought it was better than berating FAASTCAR.


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## mchlwise (Aug 2, 2007)

Marduke said:


> After a little digging, I found why you love this stuff so much.



Well... isn't that enlightening.   :ironic: :thumbsdow


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## Groundhog66 (Aug 2, 2007)

:thumbsdow


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## Empath (Aug 2, 2007)

The thread is disrespectful and rude from the starting post through the end. What more could be expected. The drama is through - thread closed.


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