# advice for first BRIGHT incandescent flashlight



## recDNA (Jul 3, 2010)

We all grew up with hot wires but I've never owned one brighter than a 4 D Maglite.

I'm looking for something small (no bigger than a 2 C Mag.)
I don't want a maglite nor do I want to do a mod any harder than screwing in a new bulb or drop in.

Id like at least 400 lumens with some throw and a nice looking beam. I am a white wall hunter.

I don't want to spend a fortune so a cheap host is preferable to a Surefire.

Run time needn't be great but 30 min would be nice.


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## Hack On Wheels (Jul 3, 2010)

recDNA said:


> We all grew up with hot wires but I've never owned one brighter than a 4 D Maglite.
> 
> I'm looking for something small (no bigger than a 2 C Mag.)
> I don't want a maglite nor do I want to do a mod any harder than screwing in a new bulb or drop in.
> ...



I would just go for an ROP setup in a 2C. I use an MOP reflector for a very nice beam. Throw is still pretty good, in my opinion. 

I'm using 2 25500 Li-Ion cells from DX in mine, with one of Fivemega's "wide" tailcaps (either the wide one or the wide/deep do the trick). You can also use 2x 18650 cells in the wide/deep tailcap or modify the stock tailcap to work (cheaper, but can be a bit fussy from what I've read).

3854-Lo is the bulb I usually run, it gives me plenty of light and a nice beam pattern. I don't recall the beam pattern changing much when going to the 3854-Hi, but it is certainly brighter. The Lo bulb gives just the right amount of light for my use, but it's really easy to swap bulbs and the 2 packs of ROP bulbs are fairly cheap at ~$10.


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## recDNA (Jul 3, 2010)

I'd prefer not to use a maglite if possible.

Any other hosts available?

I don't know what rop or mop mean.


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## Hack On Wheels (Jul 3, 2010)

recDNA said:


> I'd prefer not to use a maglite if possible.
> 
> Any other hosts available?
> 
> I don't know what rop or mop mean.



ROP stands for "Roar of the Pelican"; there are a lot of threads on using these bulbs. They are a great starting point, in my opinion.

I think Maglites will be the easiest starting point by far, especially when you consider the ease of obtaining parts for modding and upgrading them. Smaller hosts such as the Surefire 6P (or a clone) won't have as much throw either.

If you don't want to go with a Maglite, your main choices will probably be Surefire, Fivemega (from the Custom B/S/T), or Solarforce (for P60 clones).

Depending on why you aren't a fan of Maglites, you could use a D cell Maglite head and put that on one of FM's "Magfire" bodies for a relatively simple light build.


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## recDNA (Jul 3, 2010)

And thes rop bulbs just screw into the mag head and the stock mag switch can handle the load? Any idea of the max lumens I can get?


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## Hack On Wheels (Jul 3, 2010)

recDNA said:


> And thes rop bulbs just screw into the mag head and the stock mag switch can handle the load? Any idea of the max lumens I can get?



My ROP light actually uses one of download's Mag C Towers, but unless you are running a ROP Hi for a long sustained run there definitely won't be any issues. I haven't tested the ROP Hi in a stock switch. The electrical paths for the Mag switch will be fine though. 3854-Lo is in the 2 amp range and 3854-Hi is in the 4-5 amp range. People have run the Mag C switches over 6 amp without issues, but at that point your mileage may vary... 

To be clear though, the current that the ROP bulbs draw is safe for the Mag Switch. And yes, the bulbs just screw into the Mag switch where a normal Mag bulb would go. 

(*Some people do a "burn in" for the bulbs as on occasion there will be some gas released that can fog the lens and reflector. They basically run the light for a bit without the lens/reflector or just without the whole head. I haven't done this before but you can search about it if you are interested.*)

Also, I forgot to mention that MOP stands for "Medium Orange Peel" which describes the texturing of the reflector that I like to use. It helps smooth out the beam pattern which can otherwise be a bit ringy and messy.

Off the top of my head... I think the 3854-Lo can do about 400 lumens and the 3854-Hi can do 1000 or so... that is probably at the bulb and the OTF (out the front) lumens will be somewhat lower, as with LEDs and other lights.


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## recDNA (Jul 3, 2010)

And what batteries would you use in an ROP high?


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## recDNA (Jul 3, 2010)

Hack On Wheels said:


> My ROP light actually uses one of download's Mag C Towers, but unless you are running a ROP Hi for a long sustained run there definitely won't be any issues. I haven't tested the ROP Hi in a stock switch. The electrical paths for the Mag switch will be fine though. 3854-Lo is in the 2 amp range and 3854-Hi is in the 4-5 amp range. People have run the Mag C switches over 6 amp without issues, but at that point your mileage may vary...
> 
> To be clear though, the current that the ROP bulbs draw is safe for the Mag Switch. And yes, the bulbs just screw into the Mag switch where a normal Mag bulb would go.
> 
> ...


And what batteries would you use in a 2 D mag with an ROP high?
I also have a 4 D mag. Would that be a better host?
It isn't the rings the reflector makes that bother me. Its the big dark spot in the middle


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## hoongern (Jul 4, 2010)

Something else you can consider if you already have a D26/p60 compatible host (or get a cheap one), is to get this:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/190833

and fit it with the CL1794 bulb from here:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=197272

Run it off 2xICR18650 or IMR16340 and you should get 1000 lumens at the bulb. 

(alternatively, a CL1499 bulb would be good - not as bright as the 1794 bulb but still pretty bright)

I use a similar setup with the D26-G4 & WA1185 bulb for > 1000 bulb lumens, mostly flood, but I've heard good things about the 1794, which I don't have, unfortunately.

But check out these threads for some beamshots:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/213022
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/232265
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/221970


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## recDNA (Jul 4, 2010)

Now if I set up a solarforce L2 with the ext. And 2 x imr18500 batteries with one of those bulbs in a D26 drop in can the stock switch handle the amp draw?
How long before the batteries get so hot I need to turn off the flashlight?
Are these bulbs sold by any american websites where I can just charge with cc to purchase?
Do they come in a d26 w a reflector all assembled?


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## 325addict (Jul 4, 2010)

Here's my suggestion: sooner or later, you'll end up with a Surefire M6 anyway, so WHY not buy it straight away and save the money you would otherwise spend on other setups?

1. Get yourself that M6,
2. get yourself at least one "2X 18650 holder for Surefire M6" sold by Mdocod,
3. make sure, the MN20 lamp is in the M6,
4. load two GOOD 18650s in that holder, put it in and... FIRE :devil: :devil:

*NEVER use the MN21 with 2X 18650s!! It will be severely overloaded!!*

This setup with MN20 will give you 250 OTF-lumens, which is a good start. This may equal around 400 bulb lumens.

Later, when you are more into modding (still the easy way), you may also want to buy:
1. at least one Fivemega "MN-bi-pin adapter"
2. several WA- and/or Lumens Factory-bulbs,
3. at least one "3X17670 holder" by either Fivemega or Mdocod,
4. 3 or 6 AW 17670s.

With 3X 17670s and a WA1185 bulb, you easily will pass that 1000 Lumen-mark 

Bottom line: the Surefire M6 is a great light in any way you look at it, and due to the enormous amount of modding parts available, it can be customized just the way you want :thumbsup:

Timmo.


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## Hack On Wheels (Jul 4, 2010)

recDNA said:


> And what batteries would you use in a 2 D mag with an ROP high?
> I also have a 4 D mag. Would that be a better host?
> It isn't the rings the reflector makes that bother me. Its the big dark spot in the middle



You have a number of options for batteries in a 2D host; I wouldn't bother trying to use a 4D.

You could use 2 18650 batteries with some form of spacer to keep them centered in the body (there are threads/posts on what to use for a spacer). If you want to make a better use of the space, then I would recommend 2 26650 batteries from Batteryspace. You can also use 2 "C" (or 25500) size batteries with a centering adapter, these are shorter than D cells though and you may need a small spacer to make contact with the spring. With any of these options, I would recommend reading about using lithium based rechargeables safely if you aren't already familiar with them.

An option that maybe be easier... six NiMH AA batteries in a 6AA to 2D adapter. mdocod and Fivemega both make these adapters. The current draw isn't too high, so I think Eneloops would be a solid battery choice for using with either the Lo or Hi bulb. This option might be slightly more expensive, but it won't require you to make your own spacer/adapter and it may save you the cost of buying a new charger (depending on what you already have).


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## mrartillery (Jul 4, 2010)

If you dont want a Mag body, how about this. It uses a Mag head, but all you have to do is drop your bulbs right in and add batteries and tailcap. 3x 18500's and an 1185 should give around 20 minutes of runtime.


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## recDNA (Jul 4, 2010)

mrartillery said:


> If you dont want a Mag body, how about this. It uses a Mag head, but all you have to do is drop your bulbs right in and add batteries and tailcap. 3x 18500's and an 1185 should give around 20 minutes of runtime.


 
What do you mean by drop your bulb in? Does it screw in?

Does anyone sell a high power bulb IN a D26 refector so I don't have to wear eye protection merely inserting the bulb? That warning gives me the heebie jeebies.


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## mrartillery (Jul 4, 2010)

Its a bi-pin bulb, the "legs" of the bulb insert right into the slots and you just use a small hex key to snug it into place.


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## Hack On Wheels (Jul 4, 2010)

recDNA said:


> What do you mean by drop your bulb in? Does it screw in?
> 
> Does anyone sell a high power bulb IN a D26 refector so I don't have to wear eye protection merely inserting the bulb? That warning gives me the heebie jeebies.



Surefire's P91 is decently bright. Not cheap though if you have to replace it. The great thing about it being a 9V bulb is that you should be able to run it on either 3 CR123 primaries or 2 Li-Ion batteries.

Now, this isn't to say that you shouldn't use protection... but I've been pretty rough on bulbs here and there and I haven't had any breakage issues. Safety glasses is a smart precaution; anything can happen if you are unlucky, but you won't be changing bulbs that often anyway.


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## 325addict (Jul 4, 2010)

NOTE: a P91 is NOT compatible with a 2X Li-ion setup. It will be severely overloaded then.
If you want a "ready-to-drop-in" solution, look at the IMR series by Lumens Factory. They have a VERY bright D26 drop-in in this IMR series...

Otherwise, the D26 G4 Sunlight module by Fivemega is a very, very good thing to have at hand. Inserting bulbs is very easy, as described already: push it in gently, fasten the screw VERY gently using the hex key supplied, and after that, you can just use it the way you would use any other D26 drop in.
It has the added benefit that you can focus the lamp the way you want: a good flood with less throw, or more a spot with good throw... it's up to you :thumbsup:

Timmo.


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## Hack On Wheels (Jul 4, 2010)

325addict said:


> NOTE: a P91 is NOT compatible with a 2X Li-ion setup. It will be severely overloaded then.
> If you want a "ready-to-drop-in" solution, look at the IMR series by Lumens Factory. They have a VERY bright D26 drop-in in this IMR series...
> 
> Otherwise, the D26 G4 Sunlight module by Fivemega is a very, very good thing to have at hand. Inserting bulbs is very easy, as described already: push it in gently, fasten the screw VERY gently using the hex key supplied, and after that, you can just use it the way you would use any other D26 drop in.
> ...



Wait, is a P91 really not okay to use with 2x Li-Ions? That's a bummer... I'm not sure why though... two fully charged Li-Ion batteries with be at 8.4V and three fresh CR123 primaries will be at about 9V... It should actually be a bit underloaded, especially once the Li-Ions settle down to their nominal voltage.

FM's G4 Sunlight modules look great if you can get one; I really like the ability to replace/change bulbs without having to replace the whole assembly.

Edit: This thread discusses different Li-Ion combinations with the P91, looks like IMR18650s are not a good idea, but non-IMR cells and smaller IMR cells might be decent options. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/233057


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## Brigadier (Jul 5, 2010)

Lumens Factory SP-9:

http://www.lighthound.com/Lumens-Factory-Seraph-SP-9LED-Single-Mode-Flashlight_p_3218.html

D36 mini turbo head: http://www.lighthound.com/Lumens-Factory-D36-Mini-Turbo-Head-Assembly_p_3212.html

Lumens factory EO-9L D36 Drop in: http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=6258

Powered by 2 IMR18500's. 

Use the twisty switch that comes with the SP-9, not the clicky.


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## Echo63 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hack On Wheels said:


> Wait, is a P91 really not okay to use with 2x Li-Ions? That's a bummer... I'm not sure why though... two fully charged Li-Ion batteries with be at 8.4V and three fresh CR123 primaries will be at about 9V... It should actually be a bit underloaded, especially once the Li-Ions settle down to their nominal voltage.
> 
> FM's G4 Sunlight modules look great if you can get one; I really like the ability to replace/change bulbs without having to replace the whole assembly.
> 
> Edit: This thread discusses different Li-Ion combinations with the P91, looks like IMR18650s are not a good idea, but non-IMR cells and smaller IMR cells might be decent options. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/233057


The p91 draws too much current to be safe
It's not a problem with the voltage, but with the current draw being over 2c
18500 or 18650 are fine, as are IMR cells


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## Hack On Wheels (Jul 6, 2010)

Brigadier said:


> Lumens Factory SP-9:



That looks fantastic! Definitely a solid choice if it fits within budget.



Echo63 said:


> The p91 draws too much current to be safe
> It's not a problem with the voltage, but with the current draw being over 2c
> 18500 or 18650 are fine, as are IMR cells



Well, upon reading up on it there seem to be two extremes... the P91 draws too much current for the smaller Lithium Cobalt batteries and the large IMR cells can overload and  the P91... so you if you want to use a P91 then you need to choose something between the two extremes. A smaller IMR battery combo.. or a larger Lithium Cobalt battery combo.


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## hoongern (Jul 6, 2010)

325addict said:


> NOTE: a P91 is NOT compatible with a 2X Li-ion setup. It will be severely overloaded then.
> If you want a "ready-to-drop-in" solution, look at the IMR series by Lumens Factory. They have a VERY bright D26 drop-in in this IMR series...
> 
> Otherwise, the D26 G4 Sunlight module by Fivemega is a very, very good thing to have at hand. Inserting bulbs is very easy, as described already: push it in gently, fasten the screw VERY gently using the hex key supplied, and after that, you can just use it the way you would use any other D26 drop in.
> ...



I agree with this - If you want something reliable, I probably wouldn't use the P91 as many people have *poofed* their setups. Unless you're running it on IMR16340s.

LumensFactory will give you good drop ins up until the 500 lumen range. I have an IMR9 dropin from them, but it doesn't really 'shine' until you use IMR18500 or larger cells.

Once you go above 500 lumens, I'd suggest either the FM D26-T1.5 drop-in with CL1499 or CL1794, both with pretty good throw, or the FM D26-G4 with WA1111/WA1185, which are floodier.

The nice thing about the D26-T1.5 is that you can also swap in a Streamlight TL-3 bulb (cheap, at $6) for a ~200 lumen light (equiv to the P90).

Replacing bulbs in FM's modules is cheaper than buying new drop-ins. You can also buy a C-compatible turbo head from FM which fits perfectly with the modules, if they're still available.

As for heat, I can run my D26-T1.5 w/ TL-3 as long as I want. The WA1111/WA1185 gets really hot after about 3 minutes. IMR-9.. I haven't really tried, but it doesn't get anywhere as hot as the WA super bulbs.

These pocket sized hotwires aren't meant for prolonged usage. If you want prolonged usage, I'd stick < 350 lumens (still a fair amount of choices).


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## 325addict (Jul 6, 2010)

To make things a little clearer on the P91 and why you shouldn't use it with 2X Li-ion:

First, this beast draws 2.7 Amps. You should at LEAST use 18500 Li-cobalt cells, (these are the "normal" protected cells like the black AW ones) otherwise the cells will be overloaded (maximum current draw is 2C, so the AW 17500s with 1100mAh may be loaded up to 2.2 Amps, NOT more).

Second, this is NO 9V bulb as you might expect (3X CR123A in series is 9V, right)?
NO, not so right when loaded with 2.7 Amps... voltage will sag to 2.2 to 2.3V per cell, so the bulb has been designed for 6.6 to 6.9V only!
When pushing 7.2V on it, you will overload it, risking a <POOF!>

Using it with IMR (Lithium Manganese) cells is even more risky for the P91. These cells have a much lower internal resistance, and will hold their voltage even with the peak-current that will flow when switching on the lamp. Li-Cobalt cells will temporarily sag a lot more, thus saving the lamp's life. An IMR cell will most likely make the life of a P91 even shorter than it is already on 2X Li-Cobalt....

Bottom line: just don't use it. Use the IMR-lamp in D26 size from Lumens Factory instead (these have been _designed_ for 2X Li-ion) or take the D26 G4 "Sun module" by Fivemega and choose your favorite WA-lamp in it :devil:
Suggestion? C2 Centurion / WA1111 / 2X IMR16340. BRIGHT-BRIGHT-BRIGHT 
(for around six minutes or so....)

The P90, on the other hand, draws "just" 1.15 Amps, so will be lighter on the cells. A CR123A will sag under this load to around 2.5V so the P90 has been designed for around 7.5V which is perfectly compatible with any 2X lithium-ion setup. I've been using mine with 2X 17500 cells in a C3 Centurion for more than a year now... and it it still alive & kickin' 

Timmo.


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## Brigadier (Jul 6, 2010)

In my Z2 that I carry to be used in conjunction with my CCW, I use the LF IMR-9 and IMR16340's. Whoo Doggy - that is bright!!!


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## Hack On Wheels (Jul 6, 2010)

325addict said:


> Bottom line: just don't use it. Use the IMR-lamp in D26 size from Lumens Factory instead (these have been _designed_ for 2X Li-ion) or take the D26 G4 "Sun module" by Fivemega and choose your favorite WA-lamp in it :devil:
> Suggestion? C2 Centurion / WA1111 / 2X IMR16340. BRIGHT-BRIGHT-BRIGHT
> (for around six minutes or so....)
> 
> ...



I'd have to agree with this; no point fussing with the P91 for your first incandescent build.

However, it looks like the D26 G4 is no longer available. The D26 Bi-Pin adapter with a 1499 bulb would be another decent option to consider. Still plenty bright and it might actually have a bit more throw.


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## ampdude (Jul 7, 2010)

Brigadier said:


> In my Z2 that I carry to be used in conjunction with my CCW, I use the LF IMR-9 and IMR16340's. Whoo Doggy - that is bright!!!



Yep, it's pretty amazing. Almost like having an M6 HOLA in a Z2.

I keep a C2 with Z58 clicky and two IMR16340's and an IMR-9 on a nightstand as a tactical light.


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