# The best 1 cell cr 123 light



## ggreenjohny (Jun 29, 2011)

I have a surefire backup (the 110 lumen)but I'm looking for something brighter that can also run off of 1 cr123 like the surefire. I would prefer a mix of flood and throw and actually prefer a cool tint. Any suggestions?


----------



## Dances with Flashlight (Jun 29, 2011)

Try a Peak Logan. And Welcome to CPF. You'll love it here.


----------



## shane45_1911 (Jun 29, 2011)

HDS clicky or rotary.


----------



## Outdoorsman5 (Jun 29, 2011)

My favorites are the Quark 123 (regular UI) --205 lumens, and the Zebralight SC31 (cool white) 220 lumens with the best UI around. Both lights have a good balance between flood & throw.


----------



## ZMZ67 (Jun 29, 2011)

There are a lot of single CR123 lights available the 1X123 Quark is a favorite of mine.The SF E1E with a VME head and a Malkoff M31 would offer a great beam,200+ lumens and reliability in a single mode light!


----------



## Lighteous (Jun 29, 2011)

HDS Rotary or ThruNite Neutron 1C - in that order. There are many other great ones to consider. Quark 123, Sunwayman V10R or V10R Ti, Nitecore EX11.2 and Nitecore IFE1 to name a few. Enjoy the search.

Welcome to CPF!


----------



## pjandyho (Jun 29, 2011)

That really depends on what you would define as best. To some best could only mean the brightest. For me, the user interface and advance electronics of the HDS rotary and clicky makes them the best single CR123 I have ever tried. Believe me, I have a lot of lights running CR123 and none come close to a HDS.


----------



## ebow86 (Jun 29, 2011)

Forget the Quark suggestions. There's nothing particually wrong with them, they are bright and feature rich, however you will most likey be dissapointed with the quality when going from a surefire backup over to the quark. Check out the HDS line of lights, they are of excellent quality.


----------



## acrosteve (Jun 29, 2011)

pjandyho said:


> Believe me, I have a lot of lights running CR123 and none come close to a HDS.




oo: At $200, it aught to be fantastic.


----------



## jbdan (Jun 29, 2011)

I don't believe there is one single "best". There are so many that accel at so many levels you have to figure out which is best for you. That said, I hear only the highest of praise about the HDS units, but I haven't opted for that expensive of a light yet. I'm content with the Chinese brands, Fenix, Nitecore, Zebra, LumaPower, Xeon, and Jetbeam in no particular order. I love them all and they all serve me well. Welcome here johny have fun!


----------



## pjandyho (Jun 29, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> Forget the Quark suggestions. There's nothing particually wrong with them, they are bright and feature rich, however you will most likey be dissapointed with the quality when going from a surefire backup over to the quark. Check out the HDS line of lights, they are of excellent quality.



Strong agree. I just did not know how to say it without sounding hostile or undiplomatic.



acrosteve said:


> oo: At $200, it aught to be fantastic.



Indeed it is. The clicky was my EDC for about a year. Now it is the rotary. Been carrying the rotary around daily since I received it in either late March or early April. Gave my infinite variable Jetbeam RRT-0 away, kept my Sunwayman V10R Ti in the drawer even though it is a nice light, stopped using my Quark and Surefire on a regular basis ever since I got to lay my hands on HDS.



jbdan said:


> I don't believe there is one single "best". There are so many that accel at so many levels you have to figure out which is best for you. That said, I hear only the highest of praise about the HDS units, but I haven't opted for that expensive of a light yet. I'm content with the Chinese brands, *Fenix, Nitecore, Zebra, LumaPower, Xeon, and Jetbeam* in no particular order. I love them all and they all serve me well. Welcome here johny have fun!


 
Residing near GoingGear is not doing you any good my friend.


----------



## Black Frog (Jun 29, 2011)

ThruNite Neutron 1C for the money involved.


----------



## Lighteous (Jun 29, 2011)

Black Frog said:


> ThruNite Neutron 1C for the money involved.



Very true! The 1C packs in a lot of features for the price. It also compact and easy to carry.


----------



## jssp78 (Jun 29, 2011)

I vote for a Peak Logan 17500. The pocket 17500 will take AAA,AA,CR123, and 17500 and besides nimh and li-ions. .78 x 3.25 is pretty small. Would need to get the inserts separately.


----------



## ebow86 (Jun 29, 2011)

Well what I see here is alot of suggestions for lights that um...are not bad, but technically they are inferior to the light he's already using, the surefire e1b backup. I am sure that if the OP is looking to replace his E1B with another single cell light, he isn't going to look to downgrade to a lower quality light, therefore the only option for him, should he want equal or better quality to his surefire, is HDS EDC lights.


----------



## Roger999 (Jun 29, 2011)

You're not gonna find many single cell lights brighter than 250 lumens ish unless you're willing to use IMR 16340 cells with something like a XM-L.


----------



## aimxplode (Jun 29, 2011)

Well, the most durable is probably the HDS lights. What I'm currently using is the JetBeam RRT-0. I think the Jetbeam is a great mix between tough durability, great craftsmanship, and brightness at ~255 lumens. Unless you need an incredibly tough light of an HDS's caliber, I would recommend getting the RRT-0 and using the extra money to buy batteries.

Also, check out the Sunwayman V10R, which is also getting rave reviews.


----------



## ggreenjohny (Jun 29, 2011)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I was seriously considering the rotary(and still am), i just wanted to try something a little less expensive and also something pretty small but still plenty bright. I wanted to be able to wear it around my neck sometimes. I was looking at the thrunite 1c and also the quark minix 123. i was just wondering if there was anything else out there considering i am new to this whole wide world of flashlights lol.


----------



## ebow86 (Jun 29, 2011)

ggreenjohny said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions. I was seriously considering the rotary(and still am), i just wanted to try something a little less expensive and also something pretty small but still plenty bright. I wanted to be able to wear it around my neck sometimes. I was looking at the thrunite 1c and also the quark minix 123. i was just wondering if there was anything else out there considering i am new to this whole wide world of flashlights lol.



The fenix PD20 is worth taking a look at.


----------



## archimedes (Jun 29, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> The fenix PD20 is worth taking a look at.


 
... although the PD10 might be a bit smaller, with same max output.


----------



## TyJo (Jun 29, 2011)

Another vote for the HDS rotary and clicky. If you want something less expensive you could go the Quark Mini 123 route or Quark 123 regular. I like my Quark 123 tactical, but its not even close to the HDS. The regular Quark 123's are more friendly towards RCR123s since they are slightly larger and can dissipate the heat more effectively (I think?).


----------



## JohnnyLunar (Jun 29, 2011)

> You're not gonna find many single cell lights brighter than 250 lumens ish unless you're willing to use IMR 16340 cells with something like a XM-L.



The Jetbeam BC-10 has an ANSI rating of 270 lumens on high. It runs on a single CR123. From personal experience, it will also run on a slightly depleted (3.5V) RCR123, and will be visibly brighter. How long you should do it, however, is unknown.

For less than $40, you can't really go wrong with the BC-10. It has 2 modes, a lot of spill, a slightly warm tint, a flawless beam, and decent (not fantastic) build quality.


----------



## jeowf (Jun 29, 2011)

JohnnyLunar said:


> The Jetbeam BC-10 has an ANSI rating of 270 lumens on high. It runs on a single CR123. From personal experience, it will also run on a slightly depleted (3.5V) RCR123, and will be visibly brighter. How long you should do it, however, is unknown.
> 
> For less than $40, you can't really go wrong with the BC-10. It has 2 modes, a lot of spill, a slightly warm tint, a flawless beam, and decent (not fantastic) build quality.


 
Jetbeam tc-r2 310 lumens, titanium, infinite brightness ring. limited edition though, you can still find it in some places. One was recently sold on cpf marketplace.


----------



## nfetterly (Jun 29, 2011)

Okay they are some bucks, but Mac's SST-50 EDC and Tri-EDC. You want ALOT of light in a small package you have it. THe Tri-EDC is bored for 18350 usage (li-ion rechargeable, more mah than 16340) and the SST-50 EDC may be as well. They do get hot on high, particularly the SST-50 2.8A. Choice of cool or warm (4500K).


----------



## StandardBattery (Jun 29, 2011)

> The best 1 cell cr 123 light


If such a thing existed then CPF would not.

Have fun on your journey!

:welcome:


----------



## recDNA (Jun 29, 2011)

Jetbeam TC-R2 period. When the well known super popular brand puts a truly infinite adjustment wheel on theirs they might compete.


----------



## Z-Tab (Jun 29, 2011)

To be fair, the Surefire Titan T1A has an exceptionally good infinite brightness control ring... it's the one that all the other companies are copying.


----------



## simplec6 (Jun 29, 2011)

I've got an RA Clicky 180T and it's by far my favorite and most used light. It is wonderful and a beast.


----------



## recDNA (Jun 29, 2011)

Z-Tab said:


> To be fair, the Surefire Titan T1A has an exceptionally good infinite brightness control ring... it's the one that all the other companies are copying.



When it matches the output of the TC-R2....


----------



## TyJo (Jun 29, 2011)

recDNA said:


> Jetbeam TC-R2 period. When the well known super popular brand puts a truly infinite adjustment wheel on theirs they might compete.


I think the HDS rotary is close enough to infinitely variable, in fact I think it functions better then infinitely variable. I don't understand the benefit of adjusting from 199 to 200 lumens or having half of the ring devoted to barely perceivable differences in brightness. I also prefer having the ring at the back of the light so you can operate everything with one hand.


----------



## anylau (Jun 29, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> The fenix PD20 is worth taking a look at.



yup, have a try on fenix PD20 R5


----------



## Confederate (Jun 29, 2011)

The Quark is my choice on two counts. First, it's lowest light setting works for most of my needs and it is about as bright as any other light. Runtime on low light setting is one of my top priorities and of course the other "standard" features found in good lights these days. I started out looking at the Nitecores, but the reviews left me a bit cold. Great quality, but runtimes were less than others. On high settings, one reaches a point of diminishing return, but only now are companies looking at low settings with tremendous runtimes. That's why I chose the Quark. The only thing that ticks me off is the overly expensive packaging (which gets tossed). Excuse me but please lower the price and don't make the packaging so fancy! (Some people keep the packaging and throw away the light, so who knows?)


----------



## JA(me)S (Jun 30, 2011)

ggreenjohny said:


> ...i just wanted to try something a little less expensive and also *something pretty small but still plenty bright. I wanted to be able to wear it around my neck sometimes*. ...i was just wondering if there was anything else out there considering i am new to this whole wide world of flashlights lol.


With this requirement in mind, I suggest the ZebraLight H31 and follow the suggestions here. By already having an E1B and adding an H31 in this setup, you have your bases covered with an incredibly versatile, useful complete lighting system.

And if new to the school of flashlights, you will have graduated early...

:welcome: - Jas.
_
Please note: the H31 (65x23mm) is shorter and wider than the H501 (71.2x18.5mm) shown in the link provided._


----------



## Lightman2 (Jun 30, 2011)

ggreenjohny said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions. I was seriously considering the rotary(and still am), i just wanted to try something a little less expensive and also something pretty small but still plenty bright. I wanted to be able to wear it around my neck sometimes. I was looking at the thrunite 1c and also the quark minix 123. i was just wondering if there was anything else out there considering i am new to this whole wide world of flashlights lol.


 
The Quark Mini 123 is a very nice small light with lots of features and lots of power, pretty impressive however my next 1 x 123 light will be the Zebra SC31.


----------



## stoli67 (Jun 30, 2011)

Like all things it just depends on how much you want to spend

From lowest to highest
Fenix pd20 (I like it better than the pd20+)
quark mini 123
quark 123
LF3XT (if you can find one on the marketplace)
HDS clicky / rotary (probably the most robust)
Gavina 
Haiku 

Which do I pick up most often.... LF3XT inside and around the house ..... Gavina outside ! 

For the money it is hard to beat a LF3XT for user interface IMHO though I think the HDS is not far behind.


----------



## stoli67 (Jun 30, 2011)

Btw lightman2 ... Nice spreadsheet!


----------



## joe1512 (Jun 30, 2011)

The Quark MiniX 123 makes for a great keychain light being 2.3 inches long. That is what I use and replaced my itp A1 EOS with. Lots of flood, but a big hotspot with adequate throw (for a keychain light). For 50 bucks, it is a good deal.

The Neutron 1C is a bit longer, so not so good at keychain with 1 extra inch and a clickey vs twisty. However it is even brighter and has 5 difereent output levels for maximum versatility. It is 60 bucks.

For 20 bucks an itp A1 EOS is an outdated but decent enough choice. Same size as the quark minix for the person on a budget.


I personally believe HDS,etc are ridiculous overkill for most people. The high quality is touted often but really... are Fenix and 4Sevens quality lights dying all that often? Do you die if your flashlight dies? Course not. If it does keel over, you have a warranty. Failing that you can throw it away and get a new one TWICE OVER and still save money.

The only good reason to have one is because you want "The Best". The Best car costs a ton of cash, as does the best watch, etc. But the best flashlight is relatively cheap at 200 bucks. Most would agree that a Rolex doesn't provide THAT much more accuracy or UI or whatever than a Timex. In the same way an HDS is certainly nicer, but not 4 times as good as a more mundane light. But I belive the exclusivity is the main draw.

I could use the same argument for me buying the Quark over my itp A1. Costs 2.5 times as much, for about 70% more brightness and a bit more efficiency. Worth it? Not really. Cool? Yes!


----------



## TyJo (Jun 30, 2011)

It is true that the 4sevens lights are great quality and the HDS might be overkill for some, but for me its not just about the reliability. While I consider HDS to be the best, it is not the only good reason I own one. I prefer the UI, the beam profile, the features (program-ability/customization, button lock, low battery warning, waterproof rating, 4 presets, etc.), and the feel of the HDS. As good as 4sevens customer service is, HDS is better.

I could make the argument that the HDS has everything you could possibly want in a flashlight and the $400+ customs are outrageous, but I don't think that is a good argument. A car really only gets you from point A to point B for some people, and for others it is the most important thing in their life. For some people a light only needs to turn on and off for 3 seconds when they need to find their keys, for others it is part of their life/work/hobby/obsession/etc.

In the end in comes down to personal preference, how much money you want to spend, and what you want the light to do. The OP title says what is the best 1 cell cr 123 light, I'd have to say that is the HDS or a custom light. Later the OP mentioned that he would like to wear it around his neck, I would recommend the 4sevens Quark 123 Mini, ITP A1 SS, or Surefire Titan (not sure of the size). HDS also has a budget offering, if you can call it that. It is 100 dollars for a 120 lumen clicky.


----------



## MrBenchmark (Jun 30, 2011)

joe1512 said:


> I personally believe HDS,etc are ridiculous overkill for most people. The high quality is touted often but really... are Fenix and 4Sevens quality lights dying all that often? Do you die if your flashlight dies? Course not. If it does keel over, you have a warranty. Failing that you can throw it away and get a new one TWICE OVER and still save money.


 
There are plenty of people who use lights in situations where the failure of a light could be extremely dangerous. I would not want to risk my life or an injury for a warranty repair on a light. There is no comparison between the fit and finish of a 4Sevens light and SF or HDS. I am not bad mouthing 4Sevens - they make a quality product at an attractive price. All of the 4Sevens lights I own have little mechanical issues. These are picky, fussy little things - they simply are not as rock solid and bullet proof as any of the SF or HDS lights I have. This may not matter to some, and if not, fine, save your money because you won't notice the difference. But they are real differences. 



> Most would agree that a Rolex doesn't provide THAT much more accuracy or UI or whatever than a Timex. In the same way an HDS is certainly nicer, but not 4 times as good as a more mundane light. But I belive the exclusivity is the main draw.



There is an element of this in Rolex, I don't believe this is a factor in the pricing of HDS lights. No one (besides us) gives a crap about flashlights. A Rolex sells for what it does in part because I can go to *any* jeweler and get a considerable chunk of the purchase price in exchange for it. (Try this with a Timex.) I can easily believe the HDS lights are 4 times as good as a more mundane light. They aren't flakey - ever, even in tiny, inconsequential ways, in my experience. They are extremely durable - if I'm ever in a situation that causes this light to fail, I'm unlikely to survive it myself. This is worth something to me. (You do not always know when you will be in these types of situations, either - this is the point of buying high quality.) 

BTW, some of the best watches are actually considerably LESS accurate in some respects than a quartz timex. However, your kid will be a lot happier with you if you leave them a Rolex rather than a Timex after you pass on.


----------



## shane45_1911 (Jun 30, 2011)

MrBenchmark said:


> There are plenty of people who use lights in situations where the failure of a light could be extremely dangerous. I would not want to risk my life or an injury for a warranty repair on a light. There is no comparison between the fit and finish of a 4Sevens light and SF or HDS. I am not bad mouthing 4Sevens - they make a quality product at an attractive price. All of the 4Sevens lights I own have little mechanical issues. These are picky, fussy little things - they simply are not as rock solid and bullet proof as any of the SF or HDS lights I have. This may not matter to some, and if not, fine, save your money because you won't notice the difference. But they are real differences.



You saved me a bunch of typing. 100% agreed.


----------



## pjandyho (Jun 30, 2011)

Tyjo and Mr Benchmark said it all.


----------



## kwalker (Jun 30, 2011)

I'm also looking for a decent 1 x 123.
Looking at the ITP A1 EOS 3 mode. It's very economical and is reported to output 190 lumens.


----------



## Napalm (Jun 30, 2011)

MrBenchmark said:


> There are plenty of people who use lights in situations where the failure of a light could be extremely dangerous.



Backup light.

Nap.


----------



## FlashlightsNgear.com (Jun 30, 2011)

Check out the Lumintop L1C, Iam running a RCR123 and its clearly brighter than any single cell light out their, I just compared it to the Jetbeam BC20 for a customer on the phone and at 200 yards it wins hands down. You wont be sorry you bought one


----------



## Flying Turtle (Jul 1, 2011)

My "best" is the LiteFlux LF3XT. It's UI might be considered to be better than the HDS lights and it's much more pocketable. At the time it was available it was less than half the price. Certainly not nearly as robust or quite as bright, but that was not so important for me. Unfortunately these are no longer in production, but sometimes can be found used. Mine is not for sale.

Geoff


----------



## MrBenchmark (Jul 1, 2011)

Napalm said:


> Backup light.


 
That is a given. Two is one, one is none. 

There are two kinds of men in this world:
1. Men who think about what's overkill for a situation, and try to avoid that, because it's wasteful
2. Men who believe there is no such thing as overkill for any situation


----------



## MrBenchmark (Jul 1, 2011)

Flying Turtle said:


> My "best" is the LiteFlux LF3XT. It's UI might be considered to be better than the HDS lights and it's much more pocketable. At the time it was available it was less than half the price. Certainly not nearly as robust or quite as bright, but that was not so important for me.


 
Form-factor and use really are important considerations. The HDS lights are awesomely well made, which is why I mentioned them, but although their size and weight might make them bomb-proof, it doesn't help them be wearable. So they may really not be the best choice for the OP's use.


----------



## al93535 (Jul 1, 2011)

HDS clicky or rotary, As has been mentioned again and again. 

I carry my 170 always, no matter what! If I'm in a situation where I need more then everyday lighting needs, I carry a 4sevens minix 123 as backup. Extra primaries can serve either light.


----------



## flashflood (Jul 1, 2011)

ggreenjohny said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions. I was seriously considering the rotary(and still am), i just wanted to try something a little less expensive and also something pretty small but still plenty bright. I wanted to be able to wear it around my neck sometimes. I was looking at the thrunite 1c and also the quark minix 123. i was just wondering if there was anything else out there considering i am new to this whole wide world of flashlights lol.


 
I own both. The 123 is small, suitable for neck wear. The 1C is a little bigger, but is also much brighter, whiter tint, accepts RCR123 and IMR 16340 (and is insanely bright on same -- 450 lumens), has a tail clicky, and feels very solid.

The Thrunite Neutron 1C is the best $60 I've ever spent on a flashlight.


----------



## ggreenjohny (Jul 1, 2011)

I'm going to order the thrunite and minix sometime this weekend. I will let you guys know what I think. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## shao.fu.tzer (Jul 1, 2011)

HDS if you have the money,
Thrunite Neutron 1C if you don't...

I can vouch for both...

The Thrunite will be brighter, smaller, cheaper, and floodier, but the HDS is made in the USA and has a super-cool UI...

I think you'd be extremely happy with the Thrunite though...

Shao


----------



## Lightman2 (Jul 1, 2011)

stoli67 said:


> Btw lightman2 ... Nice spreadsheet!


 
Thanks however it needs updating badly which I was going to do but it is finding the time.


----------



## Paladin (Jul 1, 2011)

joe1512 said:


> I personally believe HDS,etc are ridiculous overkill for most people. The high quality is touted often Do you die if your flashlight dies? Course not. If it does keel over, you have a warranty.
> 
> The only good reason to have one is because you want "The Best". The Best car costs a ton of cash, as does the best watch, etc. But the best flashlight is relatively cheap at 200 bucks. Most would agree that a Rolex doesn't provide THAT much more accuracy or UI or whatever than a Timex. In the same way an HDS is certainly nicer, but not 4 times as good as a more mundane light. But I belive the exclusivity is the main draw.
> 
> I could use the same argument for me buying the Quark over my itp A1. Costs 2.5 times as much, for about 70% more brightness and a bit more efficiency. Worth it? Not really.


 
Tell us how you really feel about cheap as hell lights instead of buying quality.

Paladin


----------



## aimxplode (Jul 1, 2011)

Paladin said:


> Tell us how you really feel about cheap as hell lights instead of buying quality.
> 
> Paladin



I wouldn't say Quarks qualify as 'cheap as hell'


----------



## TyJo (Jul 2, 2011)

aimxplode said:


> I wouldn't say Quarks qualify as 'cheap as hell'


I agree. I got on my soapbox... if you can call it that, for HDS. I will do the same for the 4sevens Quark series. They are great lights, at a great price point that provide features including quality, lego-ability, moonlight modes, simple program-ability, great customer service, various battery options, etc.

My advice... buy every light mentioned in this thread.


----------



## songa (Jul 2, 2011)

haha you guys got me questioning the quark now...i was initially sold on the quark aa tactical actually. it fit all my criteria for a small but powerful light

-clicky but can tailstand
-reversible clip to use on a cap brim
-light weight, small form
-good knurling
-xp-g r5

but now im looking at the jetbeam bc10/ba10 too..


----------



## Z-Tab (Jul 2, 2011)

Quarks aren't bad. My experience with 4sevens in general is that their lights are decent, but the quest for the most possible modes leads to one of the worst UIs in the business. Just to give an example, the Quark RGB has 32 modes and you have to do a hell of a lot of clicking and twisting to get what you want - it can take as many as 11 separate actions to get what you want from it. Their Tactical UI is a big step in the right direction, but the build quality is still only decent.

The Thrunite Neutron looks to me like an identical twin to the Quarks. I really cannot see any differences between them besides the name.


----------



## cccpull (Jul 2, 2011)

ggreenjohny said:


> I have a surefire backup (the 110 lumen)but I'm looking for something brighter that can also run off of 1 cr123 like the surefire. I would prefer a mix of flood and throw and actually prefer a cool tint. Any suggestions?



Check out the Olight t-10, it's a great little light. Here are the specs:
http://www.olightusa.com/detail.asp?id=2


----------



## Rikr (Jul 2, 2011)

iTP A1 EOS SS 203 Lumen Flashlight - 1 X CR123A battery, I have this one and it's really bright. $32.95


----------



## Lighteous (Jul 2, 2011)

The UI on the regular Quarks and the ThruNite Neutron are almost identical. The only difference that I can think of is that ThruNite has a memory and Quark does not. I prefer no memory so it always come on in the lowest setting in the secondary (head loosened) modes. The LED is very different, however. The ThruNite with an XM-L is brighter and floodier than the Quark with the XP-G R5. I prefer the ThruNite because of the LED and because I prefer flood to throw.


----------



## flashflood (Jul 3, 2011)

Z-Tab said:


> The Thrunite Neutron looks to me like an identical twin to the Quarks. I really cannot see any differences between them besides the name.


 
I own both. The difference is night and day: the Neutrons are better made, simpler UI, brighter, and support li-ion.

It's a rare day that I don't use the Neutron 1C. It's a rare month that I use the Quarks.


----------



## pnwoutdoors (Jul 3, 2011)

ggreenjohny said:


> I have a surefire backup (the 110 lumen)but I'm looking for something brighter that can also run off of 1 cr123 like the surefire. I would prefer a mix of flood and throw and actually prefer a cool tint. Any suggestions?



Of the few CR123 lights that I have owned, I've really come to respect and admire the features and power of the *4Sevens Quark 123 Tactical* flashlight. It's puny enough to nearly disappear into the pocket, while being powerful enough to light up anything indoors. While it won't throw nearly as far as larger, P60-sized (or larger) lights, it has a great mix of spot and flood to make it useful for most tasks. Two modes (H and L) in which each mode can be set to the level you prefer, so that runtimes are exceptional. A great utility light.


----------



## peterharvey73 (Jul 3, 2011)

Presently, the most popular thread is a toss up between either the:
1) Zebralight SC600 - with some 85,000 views and some 1000+ replies - understandable due to the SC600's single 18650 powering an XM-L that outputs some whopping 750 lumens!
2) HDS Systems - with some 85,000 views too, and some 1444 replies.

I can understand the interest in the SC600's 750 or so lumens, and maybe the side switch.
However, I am very curious about the HDS; it is afterall possibly the most popular thread!!
Within this thread, many have commented on how good the HDS is, however they haven't explained why the HDS is so good?

I have done some research on HDS, and I know that they have particular features eg:
1) single CR123 pocket sized, 
2) they are very electronically programmable, eg they can be programmed to turn off automatically after 5 minutes etc.
3) some models have a tail end rotary twist to ergonomically compliment the tail end clicky,
4) they output only a modest amount of lumens,
5) they are very expensive, some $200 for some models.

I am curious. As far as the best 1 cell CR123 light goes, could some owners please detail exactly why the HDS is so good? I love to learn about all makes and models of lights.


----------



## flashflood (Jul 3, 2011)

peterharvey73 said:


> Presently, the most popular thread is a toss up between either the:
> 1) Zebralight SC600 - with some 85,000 views and some 1000+ replies - understandable due to the SC600's single 18650 powering an XM-L that outputs some whopping 750 lumens!
> 2) HDS Systems - with some 85,000 views too, and some 1444 replies.
> 
> ...


 
+1. I have tried, but still don't understand the affection for HDS and Surefire. Objectively, they are about 3x the price and 1/3 the output of the best competing lights of similar size, so what is the attraction? The answer is generally "build quality", but one can get excellent build quality from Fenix, Thrunite, Lumintop, etc. Can anyone quantify what specifically is better? Is it the height you can drop it from? PSI to crush it? Number of on/off cycles until switch failure? Or is it more subjective? I ask not as a critic, but as someone trying to understand.


----------



## TyJo (Jul 3, 2011)

peterharvey73 said:


> I am curious. As far as the best 1 cell CR123 light goes, could some owners please detail exactly why the HDS is so good? I love to learn about all makes and models of lights.


"There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
- paulr"

I was wondering the same thing when I was first getting into lights about a year ago. I didn't get what was so great about HDS but after reading CPF and always hearing about HDS I got one. Lumens are great, but there is more to flashlights then this for some. I'll try to explain why I find my HDS rotary to be such a great light.

1. User interface/customization. You can choose clicky/rotary, emitter type, raised/flush button, glass/sapphire lens, bezel type, battery tube (when available), and flashlight material/coating (when available). The UI is intuitive and easy to operate with one hand. There are 4 presets that can be programmed to your liking in any combination. Choices include 24 brightness levels, tactical strobe, emergency strobe, SOS, and rotary control. You can choose what preset you want the light to come on at or it can remember the last mode you used. You can also customize the following: button lock, automatic turn off, locator flash, momentary, burst, and customization.

2. Customer service. You have a problem you can email or call HDS. You will talk to the guy who makes the lights and he will help you. If somehow your light doesn't work right you send it in and it gets fixed. Pretty simple.

3. Build/feel. Its the toughest light I own. The light is potted, highly water resistant, has durable threads that don't crossthread, has electronic and mechanical battery protection, efficient electronics, etc. HDS has been around for a long time and is continuously improving the light. Click for the details.

4. Functionality. I have not encountered a situation where my HDS rotary did not meet my lighting needs. It is small enough to EDC and has a perfect EDC beam, perfect flood/throw balance. The light can use RCR123s or primarys. Thermal protection and low battery warning is built into the light. The burst feature is not in any other light, and is the most under rated feature on CPF in my opinion.

Like others have said, the best way to understand/appreciate the light is to have one in your hand. It might not be for everyone, especially if your only concern is alcohol content.


----------



## peterharvey73 (Jul 3, 2011)

Thanks for your very good answer Tyjo!
So it doesn't have that much alcohol or lumens.
It is mainly strong on user interface and customisation. The customisation is unique, and like no other flashlight on the market. It has no peers.
Does any other owner have anything else to add?


----------



## think2x (Jul 3, 2011)

TyJo said:


> Like others have said, the best way to understand/appreciate the light is to *have one in your hand*. It might not be for everyone, especially if your only concern is alcohol content.


This is SO TRUE! I went around a year trying to figure out what all the "hype" was about. One day, (many, many lights later) I saw one on the CPFMP and bought it before I had time to talk myself out of it. Best investment I've ever made.


----------



## StandardBattery (Jul 3, 2011)

peterharvey73 said:


> Thanks for your very good answer Tyjo!
> So it doesn't have that much alcohol or lumens.
> It is mainly strong on user interface and customisation. The customisation is unique, and like no other flashlight on the market. It has no peers.
> Does any other owner have anything else to add?


I agree with this summary as far as it goes, but it is certainly incomplete in that it does not mention their reputation for robustness in the field. This is not to be underestimated.

I'll mention you can by a NovaTac Storm today for $40 and do the 250 click trick to turn it into a programmable light and experience a slightly earlier version of the EDS interface. You will either love it, or find you don't need that capability.

At one time there really was no better light than HDS, mainly because of the way it could be programmed, it is not just 4 different levels, but by turning on other options (such as forced setting) you can get the switching between the modes to work really differently and thus really create a number of different UIs. It is very cool I love it, and I still think it is the best. At one time LightFlux offered something similar in the LF2-XT, you can read and see how popular that light was as well. HDS programability is better though and more consistent and better thought out. Still LiteFlux was really good if you liked a certain style of interface, it was just not as flexible as HDS; and this is all before HDS added the new Rotary ability.

In the past HDS had pretty good regulation compared to the competition, and it worked with Lithium CR123A an rechargeables; which many other lights were not so good at. There lights had a solid reputation for reliability and at the time had a wonderful beam compared to most of the other lights.

Today they live a lot on their legacy, as service is way too slow, problems are not caught earlier enough, Henry rarely visits the forum, and many other things if you look at it today with an open mind and rational, if not critical, thinking. 

However, if you get your light, and it works, and you like the ergonomics then you will start to really enjoy the finer points and it very likely it will become your favorite light if you're main goal is to find an everyday EDC type of light. Certain models have been shown to be super robust, this can be very important for some people, and this is still one of their main design goals. The HDS/Ra Twisty might have been the most robust light ever and the clicky is not far behind. I don't think we know how the Rotary stacks up yet, but it does not appear to be frigile or anything.

The truth is the competition is a lot tougher today than it was just a couple of years ago, not to mention 5 years ago. Due to the failed NovaTac deal and other circumstances Ra/HDS have had a number of setbacks and problems. I'm skeptical that they will be able to really overcome them, but I hope they do. If you really light flashlights definetly checkout something from HDS or get your feet wet with one of the NovaTac models being cleared out.


----------



## flashflood (Jul 11, 2011)

TyJo said:


> "There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
> - paulr"



Yes, but no matter how exquisite the oak and peat, if it's 20 proof, it's not Scotch.

That is why I have never been tempted by HDS lights: they are so far behind in lumens as to be disqualifying. Lumens aren't everything, but they are the main thing (a flashlight's purpose is to emit light), so there's a minimum competitive threshold one has to meet for any other attributes to matter at all. Today, you would not buy a 300 MHz computer or a 1 megapixel camera, even though those were cutting edge not so long ago.

If HDS fans applied a little more pressure on HDS to up their game in output, it would be healthy for HDS. Otherwise it will degenerate into more of a cult following than a viable business, and eventually wither and die.

I say this as one who has lived it: I was at Sun Microsystems for 20 years: the rise, the fall, and the slow death. We never truly accepted that Intel had completely kicked our butt in microprocessors, so we fell further and further behind until a Sun server just wasn't a competitive computer anymore.

I mention all this because Sun was a brand that inspired loyalty, and had a devoted following, but lost sight of competitive reality and died. I would hate to see that happen to HDS, or indeed to anyone -- it's brutal.


----------



## pjandyho (Jul 11, 2011)

flashflood said:


> Yes, but no matter how exquisite the oak and peat, if it's 20 proof, it's not Scotch.
> 
> That is why I have never been tempted by HDS lights: they are so far behind in lumens as to be disqualifying. Lumens aren't everything, but they are the main thing (a flashlight's purpose is to emit light), so there's a minimum competitive threshold one has to meet for any other attributes to matter at all. Today, you would not buy a 300 MHz computer or a 1 megapixel camera, even though those were cutting edge not so long ago.
> 
> ...


 We do have the racing cars and the MPVs. The racer gives you optimum speed with hardly any room for more than two persons whereas the MPV is very much a family car which doesn't go as fast as a racer but yet has the best utility usage that the entire family could enjoy.

No doubt that a HDS light may not give you the best bang for the buck lumen wise, but it sure as hell beats almost all the much higher lumen lights out there in the market, in UI, practical usage, and toughness. One thing I hate is a light that runs very bright and very hot in my hands, and made worst with ridiculously low run time, i.e. Moddoo pocket rocket at 18mins. Practical? No. It's akin to carrying a reactor rod in my hands from what I see. So if a higher lumen light is your cup of tea, good for you. It definitely is not for me. Give me a HDS rotary anytime.


----------



## stoli67 (Jul 11, 2011)

I would love to see an HDS that could be put on turbo mode up to 500 lumens.... Full blast with an XML would be good...

Would I use it like this all the time? No but I would have the choice to crank it up if I wanted to.....

I wish I could upgrade my titanium clicky !!

As it stands my high CRI ra clicky is the light I use around the house ... Because it has such a great low .... Good for babies rooms! I also have a diffuser on it for this purpose.

I rarely take one outside as I have many with much higher outputs.... 

In terms of an edc light I would rather these days use a lf2xt than a CR123 based light as the output is good enough for my pocket light and weight is so reduced.


----------



## Roger999 (Jul 11, 2011)

flashflood said:


> That is why I have never been tempted by HDS lights: they are so far behind in lumens as to be disqualifying. Lumens aren't everything, but they are the main thing (a flashlight's purpose is to emit light), so there's a minimum competitive threshold one has to meet for any other attributes to matter at all. Today, *you would not buy a 300 MHz computer* or a 1 megapixel camera, even though those were cutting edge not so long ago.


 You would not buy an expensive computer running an i7 overclocked to 5ghz without the proper thermal management.

The performance of a computer does not scale like the performance of a flashlight, if I'm getting bottlenecked in a game by my CPU, going from single core 3ghz to dual core 3ghz might yield a double the FPS, whereas with my eye going from 200lumens to 300lumens yields little increase in brightness since it takes atleast 4X the output to see double the brightness.

Thermal management is a major issue with your super high lumen lights, not to mention the limitations of the batteries, eg the bezel of my C2 running an XM-L @ 2.6A gets as hot as a P91 and I only get 20 minutes run time, if a 1X CR123 light wants to achieve super output as in 500 lumens range they will only be able to run an IMR16340(with 500mAh capacity) and will only have like 10minutes of runtime with an XM-L. HDS are not trying to make a show-off wowwtfbbqsauce!!!!!!!!elevenelevenelevenone light, it's meant to be a practical daily light.


----------



## the.Mtn.Man (Jul 11, 2011)

acrosteve said:


> oo: At $200, it aught to be fantastic.


 
HDS lights are expensive, and they are fantastic.

Here's how it usually goes with new flashaholics: They balk at spending $200 on a flashlight and figure they can get something just as good for $25. They buy a $25 light and are thrilled with it for several weeks, then they come back to CPF looking for something just little better for a little more money. After reading dozens of threads they settle on their new EDC and are absolutely thrilled with it... at least for a few weeks. Then the novelty starts to fade again and they're back at CPF looking for something just a little better for a little more money. And the cycle continues until they eventually (some might argue inevitably) pull the trigger on one of the premium lights, and then they realize how much money they could have saved themselves if they had simply started with one of these in the first place.


----------



## FlashlightsNgear.com (Jul 11, 2011)

flashflood said:


> I own both. The difference is night and day: the Neutrons are better made, simpler UI, brighter, and support li-ion.
> 
> It's a rare day that I don't use the Neutron 1C. It's a rare month that I use the Quarks.


Thrunite does NOT have a US Distributor so if it breaks you may wait months to get it fixed, 4Sevens would just send you a new light or part if something did break. Plus 4Sevens has GREAT Customer Service 

BatteryJunction may be a Thrunite Distributor, Id make sure before I bought one.. They do look Nice and very tempting..


----------



## gottawearshades (Jul 11, 2011)

I have an idea. Surefire should buy out HDS. This would make CPF more efficient by merging most of the "that light is too expensive" flame wars into one. 

(I don't want to start a war here, just want to keep things light.)



the.Mtn.Man said:


> HDS lights are expensive, and they are fantastic.
> 
> Here's how it usually goes with new flashaholics: They balk at spending $200 on a flashlight and figure they can get something just as good for $25. They buy a $25 light and are thrilled with it for several weeks, then they come back to CPF looking for something just little better for a little more money. After reading dozens of threads they settle on their new EDC and are absolutely thrilled with it... at least for a few weeks. Then the novelty starts to fade again and they're back at CPF looking for something just a little better for a little more money. And the cycle continues until they eventually (some might argue inevitably) pull the trigger on one of the premium lights, and then they realize how much money they could have saved themselves if they had simply started with one of these in the first place.


----------



## manitoe (Jul 11, 2011)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> HDS lights are expensive, and they are fantastic.
> 
> Here's how it usually goes with new flashaholics: They balk at spending $200 on a flashlight and figure they can get something just as good for $25. They buy a $25 light and are thrilled with it for several weeks, then they come back to CPF looking for something just little better for a little more money. After reading dozens of threads they settle on their new EDC and are absolutely thrilled with it... at least for a few weeks. Then the novelty starts to fade again and they're back at CPF looking for something just a little better for a little more money. And the cycle continues until they eventually (some might argue inevitably) pull the trigger on one of the premium lights, and then they realize how much money they could have saved themselves if they had simply started with one of these in the first place.



You've hit the nail on the head. This is exactly how my tastes evolved as a flashoholic. It took me roughly 15 Fenixes, Jetbeams, Nitecores and 4Sevens lights to work my way towards trying HDS/Surefire. I would have saved myself a lot of money if I'd gotten a HDS 170T from the start. But at that time 150+ Euro for a flashlight was simply out of the question.


----------



## pjandyho (Jul 11, 2011)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> HDS lights are expensive, and they are fantastic.
> 
> Here's how it usually goes with new flashaholics: They balk at spending $200 on a flashlight and figure they can get something just as good for $25. They buy a $25 light and are thrilled with it for several weeks, then they come back to CPF looking for something just little better for a little more money. After reading dozens of threads they settle on their new EDC and are absolutely thrilled with it... at least for a few weeks. Then the novelty starts to fade again and they're back at CPF looking for something just a little better for a little more money. And the cycle continues until they eventually (some might argue inevitably) pull the trigger on one of the premium lights, and then they realize how much money they could have saved themselves if they had simply started with one of these in the first place.


 
I started expensive since I am the type who would get the best once and for all, but then later on decided to try something cheaper. No matter what I tried, newest emitter, highest lumen, funky UI and whatnot, I always come back to the expensive ones and said "still nothing could beat this and why am I wasting my money trying out the alternatives?".


----------



## Walkerdark (Jul 11, 2011)

Quark 123 Tactical
NiteCore SmartPD EX10
NiteCore Extreme infinity
JetBeam BC10 Cree R5
Neutron 1C

are the one single cells I got, and I stick to my Quark, on my hipholster all the time when I'm not working, I like the simple UI and the power of this little thing, just got the BC10 and Netron 1C, but my Quark blows them all away. This **** me off alot because they are all some more $$$ than the Quark and promise ALOT more lumens. I still like my NiteCore Extreme, it's not that bright, but it's cool looking duuuudeee....
I'm kind if a "Tim the toolman Tayler" guy, "more power", I want the sun in my pocket, I want throw, I want to light the room.... just got two more that don't come close to my Quark.

No I do not work for for 4sevens, I bought flashlights there, like I have been buying at others dealers.

(parden my english)


----------



## al93535 (Jul 11, 2011)

Don't worry, 4sevens is my favorite brand, behind HDS! I love 4sevens! I carried my aa regular on a 14500 until the HDS 170e took it's place.


----------



## TyJo (Jul 11, 2011)

flashflood said:


> That is why I have never been tempted by HDS lights: they are so far behind in lumens as to be disqualifying.


I don't think that HDS is behind using a XPG emitter at 200 lumens and good efficiency, using a single 123.


----------



## :)> (Jul 11, 2011)

TyJo said:


> I don't think that HDS is behind using a XPG emitter at 200 lumens and good efficiency, using a single 123.


 
I agree. Even the 170's more than hold their own against the other lights "advertised" as brighter... they are easily as bright and throw as far as my "brighter" lights.

This is not an example of Sun vs. Intel unless Intel was given to over-rating and improperly characterizing the performance of their product. Try and find a more efficient light than the HDS w/such a rich feature set... I don't think that you can.

Add ruggedness to the efficiency, beam quality, outstanding UI and detail oriented engineering and you end up with the best 1 x 123 light made.


----------



## peterharvey73 (Jul 12, 2011)

I am considering buying a HDS Rotary 200 Lumens.
I actually tested it an hour ago.

It feels a little heavy at 100 grams.
Very solid; no loose ring like my wife's TC-R2.
It feels thicker in diameter, coz the 1 inch diameter is almost uniform along it's length.
The tail end click is short travel; not long travel like the TC-R2.
The tail end rotary dial is very *ergonomic*!
With the TC-R2, I'm constantly flipping the flashlight 180 degrees to go from the four fingers overhand tactical grip to operate the tail end click - to the four fingers underhand lazy relaxing hand shake grip to operate the magnetic ring!
With the HDS Rotary, it is always the one overhand grip!
The TC-R2 overdriven to 310 lumens for just 35 minutes has a very warm yellow tint.
The HDS Rotary 200 Lumens is only rated at 200 lumens for some 1.25 hours run time, but because it is a cool tint, it actually appeared brighter than the TC-R2!!
Flood and throw on both light were more similar.
I'd have to test the HDS a second time to distinguish if there is any difference in flood and throw; they were too similar on first test.
However, the tint and brightness was totally different!

The only major downside of the HDS Rotary 200 was that the tail end twist was too stiff and tiring to use.
All the fancy programmable adjustments on the HDS like automatic off etc, I probably won't use.

The best part of the HDS Rotary was probably the grip, and the ergonomic tail end twist single handed operation; good brightness and beam too.
The worst part of the HDS was the too stiff rotary - tiring to use. And maybe a bit too heavy at 100 grams.

I will decide soon...


----------



## recDNA (Jul 12, 2011)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> HDS lights are expensive, and they are fantastic.
> 
> Here's how it usually goes with new flashaholics: They balk at spending $200 on a flashlight and figure they can get something just as good for $25. They buy a $25 light and are thrilled with it for several weeks, then they come back to CPF looking for something just little better for a little more money. After reading dozens of threads they settle on their new EDC and are absolutely thrilled with it... at least for a few weeks. Then the novelty starts to fade again and they're back at CPF looking for something just a little better for a little more money. And the cycle continues until they eventually (some might argue inevitably) pull the trigger on one of the premium lights, and then they realize how much money they could have saved themselves if they had simply started with one of these in the first place.



And just think of all the fun they could be spared by just buying one premium flashlight......oh but you didn't finish the cycle...once we buy ONE premium flashlight we must have another super premium flashlight then one hand built to our own specs and so on. It's a cycle because it doesn't end no matter where you start!


----------



## recDNA (Jul 12, 2011)

> The TC-R2 overdriven to 310 lumens for just 35 minutes has a very warm yellow tint.
> The HDS Rotary 200 Lumens is only rated at 200 lumens for some 1.25 hours run time, but because it is a cool tint, it actually appeared brighter than the TC-R2!!



Or you could turn the infinite adjustment wheel of the TC-R2 _down_ to 200 lumens if you prefer runtime to output.
MY TC-R2 isn't yellow at all. Are you sure you don't have a weak battery? 

Many people actually prefer a neutral tint to a cool white tint but I like coool white.


----------



## flashflood (Jul 12, 2011)

TyJo said:


> I don't think that HDS is behind using a XPG emitter at 200 lumens and good efficiency, using a single 123.


 
Well, a ThruNite Neutron 1C (which is even smaller) is 450 lumens on li-ion, and the ZebraLight SC600 (about the same size) is 750 lumens.

But, heck, at some point I'm going to just cave and buy an HDS Rotary so that I can either (1) see the light, or (2) be underwhelmed and say "I told you so". 

This brings up a point for which I will open a new thread: what lights have you bought due to CPF peer pressure?


----------



## the.Mtn.Man (Jul 13, 2011)

recDNA said:


> And just think of all the fun they could be spared by just buying one premium flashlight...



Yes, there is a bit of a learning curve, I suppose: you can't really appreciate a top quality flashlight until you've had some experience with lower quality lights.



recDNA said:


> ...oh but you didn't finish the cycle...once we buy ONE premium flashlight we must have another super premium flashlight then one hand built to our own specs and so on. It's a cycle because it doesn't end no matter where you start!



Some people fall into that trap, but fortunately it's a bit harder to impulse buy a $200+ light than it is a $20 or even $50 light.


----------



## Roccomo (Jul 19, 2011)

peterharvey73 said:


> I am curious. As far as the best 1 cell CR123 light goes, could some owners please detail exactly why the HDS is so good? I love to learn about all makes and models of lights.


 
I go back with HDS to the awesome EDC. I owned and carried several of them and, while I never tried, I believe they are nearly indestructible. They're also a very finely made quality product. Pride of ownership.

But here's why I'm posting to this thread today.

About a month ago I got a nearly new Ra Twisty from the original owner, a friend of mine. He somehow managed to delete one of the three levels. I asked him if he ever did the re set and he had not. I tried to do it but couldn't. I emailed Henry. He said send it in. I did. He fixed it for free.


----------



## peterharvey73 (Jul 19, 2011)

I think these are the strong points of HDS:

1) It's diameter is almost an uniform 1 inch the whole way through it's length - this gives it the best 4 fingers overhand grip!
The many common flashlights are only 4/5th of an inch in diameter, so it doesn't overhand grip as well because it is too thin.
The Jetbeam RRT-0's are2/5th legnth 1 inch, yet 3/5th in length 4/5th inch, so it's grip is in between.

2) The tail end clicky switch on the HDS are digital, therefore the travel is short and fast!
Most lights use analog tail end clickies which are long in travel.

3) The HDS Rotary has a tail end twist to control the lumen output - very ergonomic because you don't have to change hand positions.
4) HDS have a number of programmable functions like programmable brightness settings, key lock, auto off, etc..


However in life, nothing is perfect, so the HDS has some draw backs too:
1) Because it is almost an uniform 1 inch thick, it is heavier than most other single CR123 size flashlights.
2) Because of that thicker width, it is more uncomfortable to hold by the two finger over the top cigar grip.
The two finger over the top cigar grip needs a smaller diameter like a cigar.

3) Because HDS uses a digital tail end clicky with a short travel button, we must *hold *our thumb down to get momentary lighting.
A conventional analog clicky is simply pressed half-way for momentary.

4) Because both the clicky and the rotary are positioned tail end, if an user deliberately switches to the commonly used lazy underhand hand shake grip, then he has no neck ring control or head twist control for lumen output, standby, and even full off.

Some say HDS only outputs only 200 lumens, but then the HDS run time is 1 hour 25 minutes.

So, like all other flashlights, the HDS is a mixed bag of pros and cons; it depends which features are most important to the end user...


----------



## JNieporte (Jul 19, 2011)

+1 on the Zebralight SC30 or 4Sevens Quark MiniX. Both are incredible values.


----------



## hooyah22 (Jul 29, 2011)

4Sevens Quark MiniX 123 is the best IMO... I have had a Mini 123 for a while and I absolutely love it and the MiniX 123 is a step up from that! Amazing the amount of light than can come out of something the size of your pinky finger now...


----------



## mkristian (Jul 31, 2011)

I just got the bc-10 the other day, my first real light. I am simply blown away by its power. To the poster above, are you suggesting the quark 123 tactical blows the bc-10 away? In what way? The bc-10 has a higher lumen ratings and i have heard numerous times that it is up there with the brightest of 1xc123 lights.


----------



## Paul6ppca (Oct 25, 2013)

To me, one of the best cr 123 lights I still own is the Fenix PD 10. Mostly because of its size and weight makes it easy to carry,3 good modes,simple twist and its the smoothest ti light Ive used. A very close choice is Jetbeam RRT0 and Sunwayman M11,both ,becuase I like the rotary ring to adjust output and they are small enought to carry just about everywhere. My opinion is a 123 light should be compact enough to carry in a front pocket and barly notice it. My most regretted to sell 123 light was lightflux lf3, again it was very small and easy to carry and very programable to suit anyones needs. 

I have tried many lights over the years here from customs to cheaper factory lights, and these 3 are one I plan to keep! I would love to see something like the firefly return with a current led to provide a good output or even better a Bitz with an XML led!


----------



## Quelalumieresoit (Oct 25, 2013)

Hi there, greetings from BELGIUM:wave:,
I like to play with some good old torches like Novatac (USA old models), Ra-Lights\HDS; also with Fenix, Jetbeam and other nice and fancy - funny, modern chinese lights...
Very happy with most of them.
Nonetheless, the only one I would bet my life on is always in my pants front pocket: Surefire Backup (80 lumens...). Not bright according to present standards, tight beam, only two modes BUT gives light when needed. Solid, reliable, no brutal shut off, no parastic drain... 

Keep yours as a backup!:thumbsup:
Bernard



:bowlease keep in mind that I'm French speaker. I do my best in English... Anyway, if you ever find an unpleasant way to understand my words, this would be unintentional. Thanks for your comprehension...


----------



## wuyeah (Oct 26, 2013)

Shall we do this thread yearly?
Currently I use ZebraLight H31Fw the most. it is not the most powerful but I like how it clip, handfree when I am using it.


----------



## Cerealand (Oct 26, 2013)

Somebody had asked about more details about the HDS lights. Sure, the brightest HDS is 'only' 200 lumens. I don't even have that. I have the 120 lumen HCRI model. I'm not looking for an ultra bright light that uses a CR123 cell. I have 1x18650, 2x18650, and 3x18650 lights for eye melting lumen output. My main concerns with an CR123 light are runtime and ease of usage. I have carried the HDS for over a year and takes care of all my needs in an edc light. One great thing about my HDC light is the fact that I can go directly to any of my four modes without cycling through them. (no H-M-L or L-M-H, Strobe etc). For low momentary, just press and hold, for max momentary output, double click and hold. Click once for contant low. Simple. It just becomes second nature to use this light. 

For a long time, I always wondered what the hype was about. 120-200 lumens for $100-200. Why buy an HDS when I can buy a 500 lumens light that's smaller for half the cost. Another thing I realized after getting an HDS was termal/heat management. My tiny 300+ lumen light is burning hot after a short period of contant usage. I came to realized I hate false 'high' marketing. A tiny high lumen light can run at xxx output, but... you can't run it in that output for over a few minutes. 

My initial reaction after receiving my HDS light was.... this is it? I had turned the light on high and was disappointed. I was used to 300-1000+ lumens lights. After edcing the HDS for a while, I realized lumens isn't everything. This post was typed on a very old phone so I hope the formatting isn't too bad.


----------



## Dingle1911 (Oct 29, 2013)

I really like the (1) CR123 form factor. It is a hard decision and there are so many I have not tried such as the HDS. For me at the moment the best is the Surefire L1 with an RCR123.


----------



## Mgizler (Oct 29, 2013)

My vote also goes to hds. I have owned quite a few, 140t, 170e non acme threads, 120e, 170e cerakoted dark earth, 170e cerakoted (can't remember color) , and currently edc a 200 Clicky cerakoted in safety orange and love it every day. My cerakoting is chipping bad but the light has always been flawless when it comes to performance.


----------



## jimboutilier (Oct 30, 2013)

I have mixed feelings about my HDS lights (I have a standard Exec 200, a custom Exec 200, and a standard Exec 200 rotary). 

From a quality and workmanship and toughness perspective they are absolutely first rate of all the lights I've ever owned. Their beams have a nice hotspot and a beautiful spill transition and have a nice tint. From a user interface perspective the level of customization is terrific although the implementation seems overly complex. The clicky interface is ok but the reality is there is only one mode from off then three modes you can select from there - so not my favorite interface. The light is fairly large and heavy as single CR123 lights go. The clicky clip I would characterize as functional at best and of course there is no facility for a clip on the rotary at all. Neither has a lanyard attachment point either. Neither is particularly bright for their class nor have class leading effeciency. Neither even uses the latest generation of LED technology. 

As a result I find myself carrying smaller, lighter, brighter lights that have deep pocket carry clips and lanyard attachment points more often than my HDS lights. While they may not be up to the HDS from a quality, toughness, workmanship and durability perspective, they offer superior everyday functionality to me. Lights like a Jetbeam RRT-01 or an Eagletac D25C Clicky Ti. 

If I could choose a light to take into adverse conditions it would be the HDS. But it's unlikely to be the light I'll have with me when I unexpectedly find myself in such conditions.


----------



## Mgizler (Oct 31, 2013)

jimboutilier said:


> I have mixed feelings about my HDS lights (I have a standard Exec 200, a custom Exec 200, and a standard Exec 200 rotary).
> 
> From a quality and workmanship and toughness perspective they are absolutely first rate of all the lights I've ever owned. Their beams have a nice hotspot and a beautiful spill transition and have a nice tint. From a user interface perspective the level of customization is terrific although the implementation seems overly complex. The clicky interface is ok but the reality is there is only one mode from off then three modes you can select from there - so not my favorite interface. The light is fairly large and heavy as single CR123 lights go. The clicky clip I would characterize as functional at best and of course there is no facility for a clip on the rotary at all. Neither has a lanyard attachment point either. Neither is particularly bright for their class nor have class leading effeciency. Neither even uses the latest generation of LED technology.
> 
> ...




I find myself in the complete opposite situation. I have tried many , and I mean many other lights and the HDS is the one I always find myself coming back to. Yeah, it's not the smallest or the brightest but, it's very durable, feels solid in the hand, always works when I need it, even with a very low battery , and I can program any configuration of brightness settings that best suit my needs.


----------



## DaveAnderson (Oct 31, 2013)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> HDS lights are expensive, and they are fantastic.
> 
> Here's how it usually goes with new flashaholics: They balk at spending $200 on a flashlight and figure they can get something just as good for $25. They buy a $25 light and are thrilled with it for several weeks, then they come back to CPF looking for something just little better for a little more money. After reading dozens of threads they settle on their new EDC and are absolutely thrilled with it... at least for a few weeks. Then the novelty starts to fade again and they're back at CPF looking for something just a little better for a little more money. And the cycle continues until they eventually (some might argue inevitably) pull the trigger on one of the premium lights, and then they realize how much money they could have saved themselves if they had simply started with one of these in the first place.



Yup. I've been carrying my Mac Custom Tri-EDC for over a year now and have not had the need to be looking for other lights. This thing puts out an insane amount of light, is a quality build and an excellent beam pattern for indoor use. My pick for the best light:

http://www.macscustoms.com/0ma188.web.officelive.com/TriEDC.html


----------



## jimboutilier (Oct 31, 2013)

Mgizler said:


> I find myself in the complete opposite situation. I have tried many , and I mean many other lights and the HDS is the one I always find myself coming back to. Yeah, it's not the smallest or the brightest but, it's very durable, feels solid in the hand, always works when I need it, even with a very low battery , and I can program any configuration of brightness settings that best suit my needs.



There is something attractive about fine craftsmanship for sure. I'm particularly fond of the Rotary. And for pouch or bottom of the pocket carriers I can't think of a better EDC light. Here's hoping Henry adds a lanyard attachment point and/or a decent deep pocket clip, and updates to the latest generation LEDs on his next generation of Rotaries. 

Henry, if you are reding these think about replacing the stop screw on the rotary with an eyelit that could be used as a lanyard attachment point. And machining a recessed ring without knurling near the base to clip on something like a foursevens deep pocket carry clip. 

For or all my criticism, you should note that I still have three HDS lights.:thumbsup:


----------



## Theron (Oct 31, 2013)

McGizmo High CRI Mule and HDS come to my mind first. 

I just wish the HDS would get a neutral XP-G2 like my Malkoffs. I really like the light they produce.


----------



## A.O. (Oct 31, 2013)

So I see this thread is current now... I'm looking for this type of light for EDC.. What about the Olight S10-XM-L2 Baton.. seems like a great little light at a good pricepoint.

And why can I not find a review on one of the HDS lights.. I've tried but no can find..


----------



## LightWalker (Oct 31, 2013)

A.O. said:


> So I see this thread is current now... I'm looking for this type of light for EDC.. What about the Olight S10-XM-L2 Baton.. seems like a great little light at a good pricepoint.
> 
> And why can I not find a review on one of the HDS lights.. I've tried but no can find..



The Olight S10-XM-L2 Baton is a nice light with nice features at an affordable price but does not have the durability that HDS, Surefire, McGizmo and other higher end flashlights have.

Here's a review of the HDS Rotary.
http://archive.light-reviews.com/hds_systems_edc-r1s-200/


----------



## ncbill (Oct 31, 2013)

recommend an inexpensive 1-cell cr123 w/ moon mode?


----------



## A.O. (Oct 31, 2013)

LightWalker said:


> The Olight S10-XM-L2 Baton is a nice light with nice features at an affordable price but does not have the durability that HDS, Surefire, McGizmo and other higher end flashlights have.
> 
> Here's a review of the HDS Rotary.
> http://archive.light-reviews.com/hds_systems_edc-r1s-200/



Thanks, nice bank of reviews there..


----------



## harrycolez (Oct 31, 2013)

ncbill said:


> recommend an inexpensive 1-cell cr123 w/ moon mode?


I really like the Sunwayman v11r. 200 Lumens. 500 with rechargeable 123a


----------



## A.O. (Oct 31, 2013)

harrycolez said:


> I really like the Sunwayman v11r. 200 Lumens. 500 with rechargeable 123a



Good to know, its on my B-day list


----------



## hron61 (Oct 31, 2013)

I vote for my new 90 lumen surefire t1a titan. 
Read and looked at beamshots for years and finally grabbed one.
What an awesome keyring light, the one handed operation is spectacular and the more it breaks in the more like butter the head rotates and the beam is amazing, 90 lumens my arse.


----------



## LightWalker (Nov 1, 2013)

A.O. said:


> Thanks, nice bank of reviews there..



You're welcome.

I did not do those reviews but I do like to reference them for my older lights.


----------



## A.O. (Nov 1, 2013)

I think I've decided on a Sunwayman V10R TI+... got the features I want, kinda fancy.. and I'm guessing durable..


----------



## Paul6ppca (Dec 24, 2013)

ncbill said:


> recommend an inexpensive 1-cell cr123 w/ moon mode?



Thrunite T20,the smallest cr 123 I own. *3 mode with memory*.And _*17 bucks*_!! Whohoo!!:wave:


----------



## A.O. (Dec 24, 2013)

Well I ended up with a Olight S10 Baton Ti... and I love it. With me all the time.. My first EDC..


----------



## RvD (Dec 24, 2013)

Bought an Olight S10-L2 and was impressed about the amount of light this little thing produces (400Lm)! Easy to carry, don't even feel it in your pocket. Very practical.
Also own a Nitecore TM26 but off course this one blows the Olight completely away..... (but still the Olight is quite impressive, best of both worlds I would say).
Bought a Zebralight SC600 Mark II L2 yesterday for my wife, curious how this one will be compared to my other lights.


----------



## JohnGribbin (Dec 25, 2013)

Where is the clip for the trunite t20???.


----------



## thenikjones (Dec 25, 2013)

I recently bought a Sunwayman V10R Ti+ from the Jerzee Devil forum, an interesting torch

Negatives: awful clucky button, poor clip, feel is not as nice as a McGizmo

Positives: runs on both AA and CR123, quite short (less than Surefire equivalents I own), amazing low mode, variable output is very nice

For the price, I rate it highly. I would love a McGizmo Haiku but at over 3x the cost - I can't currently justify it.


----------



## marinemaster (Dec 25, 2013)

Surefire E1L for the CR123 and Zebralight SC52 for AA in my opinion. Strictly reliability talking. I had an HDS but I sold it, did not have it long enough to test reliability.


----------



## hatman (Dec 25, 2013)

The Lenslight Mini.

The cons: It's just a bit chubby, costs $160 and up, and the Delrin clip takes a little getting used to.

Pros: The aspherical lens quickly zooms from flood to concentrated throw, it uses the great McClicky switch, puts out 330 lumens on a single CR123 battery, and has the nicest tint I've found on any light, whether cool, neutral or high CRI.

By nicest I mean the tint is warm without being brown -- and well, just lovely. It's our favorite dog-walking light. (Becca and Babe, my Dachshunds, like it too.)

On flood, you can find any work product your pups will produce. On throw, you can check out owls or other critters across the street.

It's rated at 1.5 hours on high (330 lumens) and 50 hours on low (5 lumens.) I got the high-only model and estimate no more than 40-45 minutes on my AW rechargeables.

I tried the two-cell model but saw no reason to get the larger model.

I have ZebraLights, EagleTacs, 4Sevens and other lights.
For single cells, I keep coming back to the Mini.


----------



## marinemaster (Dec 26, 2013)

Peak supposed to be very good also. I had a couple but sold all of them, just did not use them enough.


----------

