# 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 *SHIPPING VERSION* Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS +



## selfbuilt (Jul 9, 2010)

_*Reviewer's Note: *The shipping and pre-release 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 samples were provided for review by 4Sevens.com. Please see their website or CPFMP launch thread for more info. _

*Warning: even more pic heavy than usual :sweat:*

_*UPDATE: Review has been updated with results from the SHIPPING version of the G5.  All new text is identified in italics.*_

*Manufacturer Specifications from 4Sevens.com website* 

Max output of 350 OTF lumens 
8 easily selectable modes of output
One-inch diameter fits most common or ‘universal’ weapon mounts
Removable clip
Removable grip ring
Crenated bezel, replaceable with flat, black bezel
Shock-mounted battery design prevents recoil damage
Unique barrel interior design minimizes battery movement and rattling
Unique 4-point switch in head allows smooth, SILENT operation
Fine-tuned deep, smooth reflector
A useful range of over 100 meters 
Dimensions: Length: 6.0 in, Body Diameter: 1.0 in, Head Diameter: 1.5 in, Weight (w/o batteries): 5.1 oz
Operating Range: 2.7V~12V
Typical Output and Runtimes: Moonlight: 0.2 lumens, 7.5 days, Low: 4.0 lumens, 3.0 days, Medium: 28 lumens, 22 hours, High: 200 lumens, 3.1 hours, Max: 350 lumens, 1.3 hours, Strobe: 2.7 hours, S.O.S.: 8.5 hours, Beacon: 30 days
MSRP: ~$140 
The G5 is the first of the 4sevens “Maelstrom” lights to hit the market. Using the latest Cree single-die emitter with highest luminus flux output bin, the G5 is designed to give you maximum output and throw possible in a mainstream-sized flashlight. Have they succeeded? Read on … 

_UPDATE: This review originally contained pics and data from a pre-release sample. Where things have changed, I have updated the review with info from a shipping sample 4Sevens has sent me._
_






Packaging is distinctive – should look good on a store shelf.






Included inside is the light, good quality belt pouch/holster and wrist strap, manual, 2 4Sevens-branded CR123As, spare o-rings, tactical grip-ring replacement cover, and flat black bezel replacement cover.

The light looks and works exactly the same as the pre-release version, so I haven't updated any of the detailed build pics or text below._










Styling is distinctive – somewhat minimalist, but notice all the cooling fins around the base of the head. oo: 

Fit and finish on my sample were excellent – no flaws or chips in the black type III hard anodizing on my sample. Knurling, while not overly aggressive, is quite generous and in all the right places, giving you excellent grip. The included grip-ring and clip (both removable) certainly give additional support. Lettering is sharp and bright white (and thoughtfully kept to a minimum).








From left to right: Surefire CR123A, Fenix TK12, 4Sevens Maelstrom G5, Eagletac T20C2 MKII, Olight M21, JetBeam RRT-2 Raptor 

*G5 *Weight: 145.5g (no batteries), Width (bezel): 38.9mm, Length: 156mm

Although slightly larger than the typical “tactical” 1x18650/2xCR123A light, the overall dimensions of the G5 are still quite reasonable. Most of the extra height comes from the head, where there is a deeper than typical reflector.










Clearly, this light is designed for maximum throw. Note that XP-G emitters are typically considered to be less “throwy” than their earlier Cree generation counterparts (especially the XR-E series). But a lot of that depends on reflector design – and it looks like 4Sevens has gone to some expense to craft a customized one for the G5. Scroll down for beamshots and output/throw measures.






The light use a protuding forward tactical clicky switch (i.e. press for momentary on, click for lock-on), with good feel. All mode switching is done with the head (scroll down for UI discussion). I understand an optional remote pressure switch is also in the works.






The light has high-quality internal components. Note the novel 4-contact-point design in the head. However, since the head's positive contact lacks a spring, newer high-capacity flat-top 18650 batteries may not work (none of my AW ones did, unfortunately). :sigh:

Although I haven’t shown it, the front of the head easily opens and you can directly access the reflector and the front of the emitter.

Note that due to the protruding forward switch, the light cannot tailstand. But screw threads are anodized allowing for tailcap lock-out.

I have not detected any obvious rattle on any battery type. 

*Beamshots*
_
UPDATE: Output has increased slightly on 1x18650 on the Shipping Version. I don't plan to re-take the white-wall beamshots, but I will include this new Shipping Version when I do my next batch of 100-yard beamshots._

And now for the white wall hunting.  To start, here are some up-close shots comparing to other XP-G R5 lights, about 0.5 meters from a white wall (all lights on AW protected 18650).





































Clearly, the 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 is a more focused thrower than these other XP-G lights. And yet – thanks to the XP-G smaller profile and lack of dome ring – it is remarkably “ring-free” in its beam profile. :thumbsup:

So how does it compare to the classic “thrower” lights in the 1x18650 class? Here are some outdoor shots focused on a point ~ 10 meters from the lights. Note that these were taken at different times for different reviews, so they may look a little different (e.g. I planted a tree at the end of last summer :laughing. 






















While not quite in the same league, the G5 certainly seems to hold its own pretty well. Scroll down for some more exact measures of throw taken with my lux meter.

And now some additional long-distance beamshots, to show you how the light compares to others in its class. 

Please see my recent 100-yard Outdoor Beamshot review for more details (and additional lights).[/I]



















_*UPDATED SEPT 19, 2010:* I've added some additional lights to my 100-Yard Outdoor Beamshot Round-up, including the shipping version of the G5. Check out that round-up thread for more details. Here is a relevant animated GIF comparison of a number of XP-G R5 lights:_










*User Interface*

The build design of the G5 is interesting – especially the fairly unique 4-point switch engagement in the head of the flashlight. This allows you to select the different outputs by simply loosening or tightening the head. 

The short-lived DarkTort had something similar, but in that case the points were spring-mounted and had a tendency to “click” slightly as you passed by each one – the G5 is silent as it moves over the points. :thumbsup:

Basically, every quarter-turn of the head selects one of the output levels. 4Sevens describes the four modes (from tight to loose) as Primary, Secondary, Auxiliary 1, and Auxiliary 2. You can thus easily slide between four outputs in quarter-turn installments.

One minor point, though - the position just below where a switch occurs can be a bit unstable (i.e. light might flicker or jump back and forth from the lower to higher level if shaken). Best to make sure you are well within a given level’s position for stable operation (i.e. avoid leaving it set within a ~15 degree arc right around where the levels switch).

The G5 has 8 modes in total, split into 2 sets (referred to as Regular and Special mode). In order from tight to loose, you get the following:

Regular: Hi, Med, Lo, Moonlight
Special: Turbo, Strobe, SOS, Beacon

Switching between Regular/Special mode sets is done by quickly loosening and tightening the head from tight 4 times rapidly (i.e. quickly switching between Primary and Secondary 4 times in a row). You have to do this pretty fast, or you won’t switch between mode sets. You also need to make sure you do the full quarter turn each time, or the switch won’t register (i.e. need to see the secondary mode).

On Med/Hi/Turbo, I can detect no sign of PWM flicker by eye or with my sound-card oscilloscope, and I believe the Maelstrom G5 is current-controlled at these levels. On Lo and Moonlight, I can detect evidence of PWM when shinning at a fan, but my sound-card oscilloscope is unable to read the frequency (which means it must be >30KHz at least). 4Sevens informs me that the Lo mode doesn't use PWM on the shipping lights. Either way, certainly not a problem – and this is very consistent with other 4Sevens lights (e.g. Quark series). 

*Strobe*





*SOS*





*Beacon*





Strobe was measured at a fairly typical 9.5 Hz. The Beacon is basically a pulse of light that lasts for ~1 sec, issued at ~10 sec intervals. 

*Testing Method:* All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, a la Quickbeam's flashlight reviews method. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan.

Throw values were taken at 1 meter for all lights shown below. _Scroll down for a discussion of the 5 meter throw values_

*Throw/Output Summary Chart:*

_UPDATE: Here is how the new Shipping Version compares to the original pre-release sample in my testing:






I will cut right to the chase – yes, max output on 18650 has increased compared to the pre-release sample. :thumbsup: However, max output on 2xRCR/CR123A has decreased relative to the pre-release version. :shrug:

Basically, all three battery options now give the same max output (which is intermediate to the various output levels of the pre-release version). Note that the differences are not huge – you would need a lightmeter to really see the difference.  I suspect many will consider this an improvement, as it means you can now expect equivalent initial output regardless of battery source.

For all "throwy" lights like the G5, throw measures at 1m are misleading (since the beam hasn't fully converged yet). I only report them in the tables to be consistent with the other lights that were measured at 1m. However, if you want to be more accurate, here are my measures at 5m:

G5 pre-release - 1x18650: 720 lux @5m (26.8 "throw") = *18,000 lux @1m estimated* (134 "throw")

G5 Shipping - 1x18650: 750 lux @5m (27.4 "throw") = *18,750 lux @1m estimated* (137 "throw")

Scroll down for a comparison of runtimes and outputs on all levels. I have updated the tables below to reflect the SHIPPING version compared to other lights of this class.
_
















_The results above have been updated with the Shipping Version sample of the G5. As you can see, the G5’s overall output (as measured by my ceiling bounce or lightbox) is at the max end of the range for an XP-G R5 light - on every battery configuration. oo: The Eagletac T20C2-II (R5) is a close second. _

What’s even more impressive is the throw – the G5 actually beats out most of the standard tactical crowd of XR-E R2-equipped lights (e.g. Olight M20, original Eagletac T20C2 – and even the JetBeam Raptor RRT-2). On 2xRCR/CR123A, it even starts to approach the classic Tiablo A9 (Q5). This is pretty remarkable for an XP-G equipped light, and is a testament to the reflector design and high output drive level.
_
Again, for more accurate throw measures taken @5 meters, scroll back up._

*Output/Runtime Comparison*

*Note:* Effective January 2010, all CR123A runtimes are now performed solely on Titanium Innovations batteries sponsored by BatteryJunction.com. You can compare the generally excellent performance of these CR123A cells relative to the Duracell/Surefire cells used in all my earlier reviews here. I have marked all the new runtimes of lights with Titanium Innovations CR123As on the graphs with an "*". 

_UPDATE: To start, I imagine most people want to know how the new Shipping Version compares to the pre-release sample on Turbo, on all batteries. In the graphs below, the solid lines are the Shipping version, and the dotted lines are the pre-release version.






As discussed above, all three battery options now give roughly the same max output initially (which is intermediate to the various output levels of the pre-release version). 

But there are a few other differences - for example, Max 1x18650 on the Shipping version is now regulated for the first ~10-15mins of the run, before switching into direct drive. As a result, runtime on Max has of course decreased.

So how do all the output levels compare? I haven't redone all the runtimes, but here's a few examples on 1x18650. Again, the dotted line is the pre-release sample.






Basically, output is slightly lower on 1x18650 on the Moonlight/Lo/Med/Hi levels of my Shipping sample. The Hi mode also shows a runtime difference – the light is now fully regulated over the entire length of the run. On the pre-release version, the light dropped out of regulation and into direct-drive about half-way through the run. 

Although many here may prefer this new fully-regulated pattern on Hi, I would note that semi-regulated is typically more efficient, and the gradual drop-off was not perceptible to the naked eye anyway.

I haven't updated the comparisons runtimes below - those are still the pre-release version. But as you can see in the graphs above, there's not a huge runtime difference except on 1x18650 on Turbo._































_
UPDATE: Again, the comparison runtimes above still show the pre-release version. _

Output spacing is definitely a bit different from most other lights – the light lacks a typical “Med” level, as the G5 Med is actually closer to the Lo level on most other lights. In addition, the G5 also has Lo and Moonlight output modes, both of which are lower than what most lights can attain. Although this makes direct comparison difficult, relative efficiency seems to be very good on the G5. 

*Potential Issues*

The 4x switching mechanism for Regular/Special mode sets can be a bit tricky to perform reliably – you must very quick, but also make the full switch into the secondary mode from primary (i.e. a full quarter turn) on each pass. 

It was also easy to accidentally unscrew the front part of the head somewhat on the pre-release version (i.e. defocus the reflector) while switching modes - but that may just be in the pre-release version (which was designed for easy access). _Confirmed - my Shipping version is a lot stiffer, and this no longer happens accidentally._

Turbo is located with the strobe/SOS “Special modes”, which means you have to do a mode set switch to access it. And since Strobe is the secondary mode of the Special group, this also means that you will need to see the strobe four times to return to the Regular mode set.

_*UPDATE 9-7-2010:* The latest batch of G5s has a revised interface, with Turbo added to the Regular mode set, and the Lo mode has been dropped. _

With the reverse polarity protection feature of the head, none of my newer high-capacity flat-top AW protected 18650 cells would work in my G5 sample.

*Preliminary Observations*

The Maelstrom G5 definitely lives up to its promise to show that XP-G emitters can throw! oo:

_Confirmed in the Shipping version,_ the overall output and throw of the G5 is top-of-class for the general purpose tactical mode lights. It typically exceeds the overall output of other XP-G R5-equipped lights (e.g. Fenix TK12, Eagletac T20C2-II), and the throw of most XR-E R2-equipped light (e.g. Olight M20, JetBeam RRT-2 Raptor, original Eagletac T20C2, etc.). While it can’t quite compete with the dedicated XR-E R2 “throwers”, its throw is actually pretty close to the classic Tiablo A9 with a XR-E Q5 emitter. 

Notice too that all this output and throw comes with no discernable rings in the beam (as is common on XR-E lights). There is also no sign on my samples of the dark centre void in the hotspot (as is common on XP-G lights, especially those with smooth reflectors). Definitely a fantastic job on the reflector - well done! :twothumbs

Overall build quality is very high on my samples - they definitely look and feel like a solid, well-built lights. While marginally longer than typical tactical-class 1x18650-sized lights (due to the deeper than typical reflector), the lights don’t feel at all unwieldy. Hand-feel is good, and the light is easy to use one-handed to switch quietly between the four output levels of whichever mode set you are in. Very intuitive and easy to use :thumbsup: My only real complaint here is the 4x switching mechanism to go from the Regular to Special mode sets – I found it a bit tricky to do reliably.

Runtime performance certainly seems very good for this class of light. But the light lacks a typical Med mode, and seems to have an unusually large number of Lo modes for a high-output tactical light. :thinking: That wouldn’t normally be a problem, except it seems to have resulted in the Turbo mode being relegated to the Special modes set with strobe/SOS. That is an issue, since getting back into the Regular mode set means strobing yourself 4 times (i.e. Strobe is the secondary mode you have to keep switching into from Turbo to do a mode set switch back to Regular). :sigh:

Of course, from another perspective, this division of modes makes sense - the Regular modes have a wide range of outputs for the regular user (and all fully regulated on 18650), while the Special modes contain those the tactical user would like (including max output and strobe). But I personally am sympathetic to the regular user crowd that would like to see Turbo in the Regular set.

Despite whatever your personal user interface preference, the G5 is certainly top-of-class for output and throw. I’m glad to see 4Sevens has managed to dispel the myth that XP-G lights cannot throw – in fact, the G5 shows that you can get excellent throw from this class with the right reflector (and special bonus – no beam rings!). The G5 certainly shows (and shows off) what the high-output XP-G emitter can do with the right reflector. 

_*UPDATE 8-14-2010:* As shown in the revised charts and runtime graphs, max output has indeed increased slightly on 1x18650 on the Shipping version compared to the pre-relase sample. However, max output on 2xRCR/CR123A has decreased slightly relative to the pre-release version. Check out the tables and graphs above for more info._

*UPDATE 9-7-2010:* _4Sevens has confirmed that the latest batch of G5s now includes the Max mode on the regular sequence, and dispenses with the Lo mode, as recommended in this review. The revised sequences are thus: Max, Strobe, SOS, Beacon - Max, High, Medium, Moonlight. _ :thumbsup:


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## jp2515 (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Awesome review as usual selfbuilt! :thumbsup:


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## jabe1 (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thanks for the great write-up! :twothumbs


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## ti-force (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Nice work as usual Selfbuilt :twothumbs


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## gnef (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thanks for the review, this helps in figuring out if I should get this light. (I think I am still more interested in the S12).


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## richardcpf (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Great review thank you.

I look fordward to order this one when it releases. Looks promising. Only con is the full regulation with 18650.


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## GeetarHero (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

EXCELLENT work as usual Selfbuilt!!! I'm a little bummed about the UI though... that's a deal breaker for me...


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## ToNIX (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Outstanding review as usual! Pretty unique design and the output speaks for itself


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## HIDblue (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Great review selfbuilt! :thumbsup: 

Kind of a bummer that it doesn't accept the newer flat-top AW 18650 2600 mAh batteries though. :shakehead


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## SuperTrouper (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Great review as always Selfbuilt.

Thanks.


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## Tally-ho (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



selfbuilt said:


> Styling is distinctive – somewhat minimalist, but notice all the cooling fins around the base of the head. oo:


Perfect for a 1400-1500mA driven XP-G.R5.
Thank you for the great review.


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## Yavox (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

G5 must be a truly powerful flashlight, since the tree in your backyard has vaporized between the beamshots


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## frosty (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thanks for the review. It's an impressive light but I'm not taken by the switching method or the fact that you may end up getting strobed.


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## phantom23 (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



richardcpf said:


> Only con is the full regulation with 18650.


+ no medium mode. And it's bigger than RRT-2 (which isn't small...).


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## mefistofele86 (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thank you very much Selfbuilt for this great review (as usually).

I like very much the power but i'm disappointed because of the UI and the lack of regulation on 18650.
Max mod should be simple to operate... and not hidden...


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## AardvarkSagus (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Excellent review Selfbuilt! I see we agree about wishing the Max mode was in with the other constant outputs.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thanks everyone! :grouphug:



AardvarkSagus said:


> Excellent review Selfbuilt! I see we agree about wishing the Max mode was in with the other constant outputs.





ti-force said:


> Nice work as usual Selfbuilt :twothumbs


Thanks, and good job on your reviews as well (just read them this morning). :thumbsup: Man, those are a lot of great pics ti-force! 

BTW, I think you made a good point AardvarkSagus that the Hi mode is strong enough that you may not feel the need to switch to Turbo. I know people are disappointed with the lack of full regulation on max on 18650 in my runtime tests, but Hi is indeed quite impressive in its own right. 



frosty said:


> Thanks for the review. It's an impressive light but I'm not taken by the switching method or the fact that you may end up getting strobed.


Yeah, that getting strobed part is really my biggest beef with having Turbo on the special set (with strobe). I can live with having to do the 4x switch to access Turbo, but I really don't like getting strobed repeatedly when going back down to Regular output modes. :shakehead



phantom23 said:


> + no medium mode. And it's bigger than RRT-2 (which isn't small...).


I don't really find the size an issue - you quickly get used to it, and the light is well balanced (i.e. doesn't feel top-heavy with batteries installed). It's actually kind of impressive looking. 

The spacing of output modes is another issue. A more "medium" output would be more useful, I think. Personally, I've never really seen the point of ultra-lo outputs on a 1x18650-sized tactical light. Who really needs months of continuous output? :thinking: Of course, it doesn't hurt to have them there - _as long as they don't get in the way of the modes I actuallly do use (i.e. Med and Hi)_. And that's really the issue with having Turbo bumped up to the Special set modes ... there would be room for it in the Regular set if they just nixed Moonlight. 

But again, these UI quirks aside, the output and throw of this light are outstanding for the size. :thumbsup:



Yavox said:


> G5 must be a truly powerful flashlight, since the tree in your backyard has vaporized between the beamshots


:laughing: I see you've noticed the undocumented "Disintegrate" feature. Quite a surprise when I stumbled acrossed it by accident ... :lolsign:

More seriously, I'm afraid that is the last of those beamshots - I just moved this past month, so it will be new garden pics in the future. Guess I will have to do some comparison shots of older lights to compare ...


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## dr.toto (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thank you for the nice review.


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## MichaelW (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Is it inappropriate to talk cost here?
I guestimate $125, seeing as the Quark turbo is $75, and Quark RGB is $100.


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## gnef (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

I think cost talk is useless right now. The announcement is soon to be released with actual numbers. 

All we would be doing is guessing randomly, and this thread is more about the performance attributes of the light.


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## new-b (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

The fact that you can see the tree with the maelstrom, but none of the other lights is the lights is the kicker for me!!!!


Great review, Thanks,
J


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## MichaelW (Jul 10, 2010)

*There is no spoon, but there is a tree.*

Okay, how about, 'where is my neutral-white?' talk

S2 cool
R5 'outdoor-white'
R4 neutral-white

R2 warm-white

A nice 4500K R5 outdoor-white would be nice, especially come autumn.


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## Beacon of Light (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: There is no spoon, but there is a tree.*

I saw in ti-forces review thread, 4Sevens quotes the runtime in moon mode as 7 days wheras the regular Quark 2x123 they advertise is 30 days. Why would there be that huge of a difference in run-time with the same battery type and the same lumens (.2 lumen)? Isn't an XP-G an XP-G? Why would this be less efficient on lower levels than the other XP-G Quark 2x123? Strange the older Quark 2x123 would last 4 to 5 times longer on moon mode. That is all!


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## candle lamp (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thanks for your detailed and wonderful review ! :twothumbs


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## wapkil (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: There is no spoon, but there is a tree.*



Beacon of Light said:


> I saw in ti-forces review thread, 4Sevens quotes the runtime in moon mode as 7 days wheras the regular Quark 2x123 they advertise is 30 days. Why would there be that huge of a difference in run-time with the same battery type and the same lumens (.2 lumen)?



Probably simply because one uses PWM and the other CC.


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## Beacon of Light (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: There is no spoon, but there is a tree.*



wapkil said:


> Probably simply because one uses PWM and the other CC.



THAT big of a difference though? 4-5 times the difference? This seems unheard of even comparing current controlled and PWM lights at such a low level 1mA


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## TwitchALot (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



selfbuilt said:


> Yeah, that getting strobed part is really my biggest beef with having Turbo on the special set (with strobe). I can live with having to do the 4x switch to access Turbo, but I really don't like getting strobed repeatedly when going back down to Regular output modes. :shakehead
> 
> Of course, it doesn't hurt to have them there - _as long as they don't get in the way of the modes I actuallly do use (i.e. Med and Hi)_. And that's really the issue with having Turbo bumped up to the Special set modes ... there would be room for it in the Regular set if they just nixed Moonlight.



Thanks for the review selfbuilt! Now on a general note, I think anyone disappointed in the UI has to take a step back and consider the purpose of this light. My suspicion is that it's going to be marketed as a tactical and weapon mounted light. As such, it makes sense to have the turbo and strobe mode in the same group, easily accessible, for people using the light for these purposes. 

For the casual user, I think the normal output modes are pretty good. Moonlight mode is pretty awesome, low is good, and the "medium" mode is enough to get most tasks done. But for more throw and light, the high mode is a good balance between brightness and efficiency. Considering the runtime difference between high and turbo, and the logarithmic nature of our eyes, I think the settings are pretty well-spaced and well-thought out.

We just have to keep in mind what this light was meant for. And with that in mind, the way the brightness settings were set up is actually, I think, very smart. You essentially have an interface that allows you to use the light for tactical purposes and EDC purposes at the same time. If you're a more casual user, the normal outputs will work well enough for your purposes. But if you're going to put this thing on a gun, switch to the tactical outputs and you have outputs that generally work just as well. In my eyes, the way this light is set up is a compromise- attempting to be useful for both tactical and EDC purposes. And thus, while it's not perfect at either, it's pretty good overall.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



TwitchALot said:


> Now on a general note, I think anyone disappointed in the UI has to take a step back and consider the purpose of this light. My suspicion is that it's going to be marketed as a tactical and weapon mounted light. As such, it makes sense to have the turbo and strobe mode in the same group, easily accessible, for people using the light for these purposes. ... You essentially have an interface that allows you to use the light for tactical purposes and EDC purposes at the same time.


I think you make a number of excellent points TwichAlot (sorry I couldn't quote it all, but I urge folks to read the whole post).

Your reasoning is quite sound - the modes do make sense from a tactical/casual user perspective. And as AardvarkSagus has pointed out, the Hi mode is quite acceptable for every day use (and frankly how I would run the light, given that I prefer the Regular mode set). It also has the advantage of full regulation on 18650, my preferred battery source by far. :thumbsup:

But I am sympathetic to the camp that would like to see Turbo in the Regular mode set. It wouldn't preclude putting the Turbo in the Special mode as well. The Regular mode levels could be spaced differently to allow the casual user access to max output. This would be preferable to me, as I don't really need a lot of low modes on a light of this size (that's why I carry 1xRCR and 1xAAA on me at all times).

But I appreciate the different perspectives!


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## TwitchALot (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



selfbuilt said:


> I think you make a number of excellent points TwichAlot (sorry I couldn't quote it all, but I urge folks to read the whole post).


 Instead of typing it out, next time you can just copy and paste the text and manually type, “


> …[//QUOTE]” at the beginning and end of the text to put it in those quote boxes. Just use one backslash instead of two (if I had used one, it would have put the, “…” in a quote box and you wouldn’t be able to see the quote parts).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## 4sevens (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Hey everyone -

I've been following this thread and I'll just chime in on a few points...

- Why don't flat-top 18650's work? It's because of the reverse polarity design in the head. It's more important to make sure batteries inserted backwards don't fry the electronics than to accommodate non-standard 18650's. As someone mentioned, using some flat magnetic discs should work fine. 

Also, the design inside the head reaches into the body chamber to "clamp down" the batteries such that a) the battery/batteries are fixed with light to prevent a self destructing "hammer effect" when mounted on an automatic rifle (yes, we've tested these lights in these applications) and b) the clamping down also prevents battery rattle with both cr123a as well as 18650's.

- moonlight mode efficiency - why is it less than the Quarks? The circuit is fundamentally different. The maelstrom circuit is designed to push almost twice as much current thus the circuit is more complicated and setup to push more current. The moonlight mode is a compromise - achieving moonlight mode with this circuit was quite a challenge as it is. Short of making a second circuit to run in parallel - it's not possible to get the same runtime.

- max and special mode choice. with each set of modes, the first two would be the most likely used. ie max/strobe and high/medium. I would say these woudl meet 90% of tactical needs. In fact, most just use max and occasionally strobe. We've had this light tested with police departments and we adjusted according to their feedback. (btw we're working on outfitting some departments with the G5  ). the inclusion of the high, medium, low, moonlight was mainly for you cpf'ers  I considered not having those modes but eventually decided to include them - of course at my own peril - drawing more opinions and criticisms. 

- why not click to change modes? This should be an obvious one. For it to be a true tactical light the clicky switch should under no circumstances changes modes from flashing the tail switch period. These guys operating in tactical situations need the light to be predicable and not do different things during operation. We'll be offering remote switches for the G5 - imagine this light being used in a tactical situation and the operator clicks it a few times then all of a sudden the light does funny things. unacceptable.

just a few points to clarify our design decision


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## wapkil (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: There is no spoon, but there is a tree.*



Beacon of Light said:


> THAT big of a difference though? 4-5 times the difference? This seems unheard of even comparing current controlled and PWM lights at such a low level 1mA



Yeah, it seems a bit too much. Especially since regular Quarks don't have such a great efficacy in the moon mode. The question is how accurate is the specification that we know. Many manufacturers in the lower modes seem to provide "not less than" brightness values instead of the real ones and I think we don't have an official specification for Maelstroms yet.


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## sfca (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



TwitchALot said:


> Thanks for the review selfbuilt! Now on a general note, I think anyone disappointed in the UI has to take a step back and consider the purpose of this light. My suspicion is that it's going to be marketed as a tactical and weapon mounted light. As such, it makes sense to have the turbo and strobe mode in the same group, easily accessible, for people using the light for these purposes.



I admit I was once on the strobe bandwagon but I hope that in the future manufacturers will be pragmatic and let go of the strobe - unless the military/LEO market find a way to make it a necessity. Otherwise, it's a gimmick (for this use). Beacon I can see the use for - as well as SOS.

Also, since this was intended to be a tactical light there should be a recoil spring behind the head, shouldn't there? This is a pre-production light so understandable that it's not there. 
Gun users - how would this light fair in use?

_ Edit: I see 4sevens post. Thanks for posting guys! :thumbsup:_


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## photonstorm (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

As usual an excellent comprehensive review from Eric.

Any idea what the MSRP is?


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## was.lost.but.now.found (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

David,

It's good to get your take on the matter of the UI. I myself had also thought, "why have a moonlight mode if you pick up the light and it's been on max/special mode set, and you have to go through the max-strobe series 4 times, then through high, medium, and finally low?" Well the answer is pretty clear as you have pointed out.

To that end, I'm surprised the official "release" came from the reviewers and not from you. The first word coming from you would surely have resulted in an entire round of naysayers (myself partially included) being silenced before the first word was spoken.


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## recDNA (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

18,000 lux? I'm hooked. Hope its a bargain!


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## selfbuilt (Jul 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



4sevens said:


> just a few points to clarify our design decision


Thanks for chiming in David. It's always good to have clarity around design choices directly from the manufacturer. It certainly helps prevent run-away speculative discussions. 



sfca said:


> I admit I was once on the strobe bandwagon but I hope that in the future manufacturers will be pragmatic and let go of the strobe - unless the military/LEO market find a way to make it a necessity. Otherwise, it's a gimmick (for this use). Beacon I can see the use for - as well as SOS.


I've never been a tactical strobe fan myself - but then, I'm not a very tatical guy.  I'll leave it to those with direct experience/need to chime in on that.

My long-standing preference as a "regular" user would be for slow signalling strobe/beacon modes (i.e 0.5-2Hz range) in most lights. I could see myself finding that useful. But the G5 is not designed to be an everyday regular-user light, so I can appreciate the choices made here.


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## tab665 (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

that was generous of them to include high, medium, and low modes for us regular folk. perhaps they should have designed a civilian model with the low, med, high, and turbo levels alone. id like to know which would be the bigger seller. oh well, i guess i'll speak by keeping my wallet closed.


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## woodrow (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Selfbuilt, Thanks for another great review (that will separate my hard earned money from my wallet ) Had I only seen the runtime/output graphs on the 18650's I might have passed, but i do not mind spending the $1 a pop on titaniums to get the kind of performance this light seems to produce on them.

Thanks for such a complete review as always. I look forward to picking one of these up!


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## TwitchALot (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



4sevens said:


> Hey everyone -
> 
> - why not click to change modes? This should be an obvious one. For it to be a true tactical light the clicky switch should under no circumstances changes modes from flashing the tail switch period. These guys operating in tactical situations need the light to be predicable and not do different things during operation. We'll be offering remote switches for the G5 - imagine this light being used in a tactical situation and the operator clicks it a few times then all of a sudden the light does funny things. unacceptable.
> 
> just a few points to clarify our design decision



Perhaps I'm not clear on the UI, since I don't have a sample. It's a forward clicky switch much like the Quark Tactical line, correct? Now I'm not sure how the remote switch will work, but if this is the case, wouldn't someone need to physically click the switch on and off for the modes to switch settings? That is, momentary use of the light with a switch wouldn't change modes- only pressing the button in fully and releasing it (for the audible click as opposed to the soft press of a forward clicky) several times within a very small time frame would switch modes. 

Presumably, any remote switch would only depress the tailcap button slightly to avoid the audible click that occurs every time the tailcap is fully depressed. Thus, there would be no way to accidentally switch modes with the remote switch. The situation would be similar in handheld use. I understand the reasoning behind the decision, of course- I'm just trying to clarify the UI. Of course, if I'm wrong and it's not a forward clicky with a momentary option at a light press like the Tacticals, this obviously wouldn't apply, and rotating the head then becomes the next obvious choice for switching between interfaces.


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## AardvarkSagus (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

If I am not mistaken, a remote switch will likely be a whole new tailcap with wires running to a momentary only switch rather than having a mechanical setup that partially depresses the existing one. 

The mode changes with most forward clickys will still cycle if you only use momentary mode because you are still power cycling it. This way, having the head rotate to change modes prevents any accidental output changes and allows it to be a completely reliable tactical light.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



AardvarkSagus said:


> If I am not mistaken, a remote switch will likely be a whole new tailcap with wires running to a momentary only switch rather than having a mechanical setup that partially depresses the existing one.


That would be my expectation as well. I've only seen a couple of remote pressure switches up close, but all have functioned as a replacement for the mechanical forwrd clicky tailcap.



woodrow said:


> Selfbuilt, Thanks for another great review (that will separate my hard earned money from my wallet )





tab665 said:


> oh well, i guess i'll speak by keeping my wallet closed.


Yes, I think that's the value of independent reviews - everyone can decide for themselves (based on the data and other user's experience) whether a light is rght for them or not. I'm glad if a review of mine can help an informed decision be made.


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## tre (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thanks for another great review. I always look forward to your reviews. 4sevens was smart to give you a pre-release copy. 

4sevens, thanks for your addition to this thread. What an amazing light. An XP-G that can throw. It makes EagleTac, Jetbeam, Fenix, etc. (the "big guys") look like a bunch of amateurs.


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## romteb (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thanks for the excellent review !

If i understand correctly, there is no way to know what mode the light is in other than turning it on ?

This also implies that it will be a bit difficult to select a mode when the light is turned off, am i correct ?


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## CLBME (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Yet another tremendous review by Selfbuilt! I learn something every time I read one. Thank you for your time and expertise. :thumbsup:


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## carrot (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



romteb said:


> Thanks for the excellent review !
> 
> If i understand correctly, there is no way to know what mode the light is in other than turning it on ?
> 
> This also implies that it will be a bit difficult to select a mode when the light is turned off, am i correct ?


It should be possible to pick levels by feel. From a tightened bezel, is the first level, and 90º turn goes to the next level and so on.

By the way, nice review selfbuilt!


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## SexieWASD (Jul 11, 2010)

*remote switch?*

Is there any chance that the remote switch will lego with the quarks? I really can't tell the size difference in the tail cap from the pics, but it looks close.


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## TwitchALot (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



AardvarkSagus said:


> The mode changes with most forward clickys will still cycle if you only use momentary mode because you are still power cycling it. This way, having the head rotate to change modes prevents any accidental output changes and allows it to be a completely reliable tactical light.



That's interesting. There's no way to get the switch to differentiate between a full click and a momentary press?


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## AardvarkSagus (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



TwitchALot said:


> That's interesting. There's no way to get the switch to differentiate between a full click and a momentary press?


With mechanical forward clickys, no. Pressing the switch completes the electrical circuit, but pressing it further merely mechanically locks it completed. There is no difference to the electronics whether it is only completed for a moment or locked.


carrot said:


> It should be possible to pick levels by feel. From a tightened bezel, is the first level, and 90º turn goes to the next level and so on.



Sounds about right to me. You can usually fairly accurately guess which output you are in as long as you remember which mode group you left it on.


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## TwitchALot (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



AardvarkSagus said:


> With mechanical forward clickys, no. Pressing the switch completes the electrical circuit, but pressing it further merely mechanically locks it completed. There is no difference to the electronics whether it is only completed for a moment or locked.



Thanks. In this case, it makes perfect sense to use the head to switch between interfaces.


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## Burgess (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thank you, SelfBuilt, for yet another EXCELLENT Review !

:goodjob::kewlpics::thanks:


Can someone comment on the feasibility of using a small Magnet
on an AW flat-top battery ?


Do you forsee any issues if that magnet might "slip" during flashlight operation ? ? ?


Thank you, everybody, for your great comments and information here.

Sounds like a GREAT flashlight ! ! !


lovecpf
_


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## TwitchALot (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

David, after some more thought and careful consideration, I'd like to add one more piece of constructive criticism. 

Ditch the moonlight mode, and add an intermediate ~80 lumen mode to the normal interface. So it would be low, medium, medium high, and high. 

Let me say straight up that I love the moonlight mode. I especially like the UI on the normal Quarks, the easy access to turbo and moonlight, and oh yeah, I love the moonlight mode. But I think I let that love cloud my judgment.

*In a light of this size and weight, and given the loss in efficiency of the moonlight mode due to circuit design, I think it's better to have a medium high mode of ~80 lumens than a moonlight mode. * 

Two reasons for this. The first is the obvious loss in efficiency as you stated due to circuit design limitations. One of the advantages of moonlight mode is the long runtime- an advantage considerably diminished in the G5. In addition, given the size and weight of this light, I think it'd be tougher to use it in situations where moonlight mode is most useful. I think smaller lights are better suited for this purpose, and that the low mode is an acceptable compromise between moonlight mode and higher levels of light. In fact, my Quark Tactical has turbo and low mode programmed for that very reason. Moonlight mode is incredibly useful and rather bright when you're night-adapted, but before you are (and it takes a while), low mode works very well. 

Secondly, I think a medium-high would be a welcome addition to the G5 in comparison to a moonlight mode for both casual and serious users. Again, I love moonlight mode, but for a light of this size and given its intended purpose, I think a medium high is probably a better choice over moonlight for two main reasons. Firstly, a medium-high mode will give you better spacing; low mode is a suitable _compromise_ between moonlight and medium, and a medium-high mode of ~80 lumens would fill the large gap between 28 lumens and 200 lumens. It would offer much better run time than the high mode, but significantly more light than the medium mode- enough to accomplish tasks the medium mode can't, but 200 lumens is perhaps too much for. 

*Perhaps more importantly, it offers an important advantage for users using the G5 in a tactical environment.* As is, the tactical interface gives you maximum output and strobe as the most easily accessible modes. The normal interface gives you a high mode, but then a relatively weak medium mode as its secondary output. I think it would be better for the secondary output in the normal mode to be at about 80 lumens because indoors, _there is such a thing as too much light_. In fact, 200+ lumens bouncing off of a white wall from a tightly focused beam in the dark can cause flash blindness, temporarily impairing the vision of the user.

Of course, this is definitely not good, but it's an important consideration to keep in mind. 80 lumens is more than enough light indoors in a dark environment to identify threats, but it minimizes flash-blindness on the user. Although the turbo mode with the reflector design is well-suited for throw (such that it enhances an officer's capability to identify and engage threats at farther ranges with his carbine), in a dark, indoor, environment, that amount of light can be overpowering due to white wall reflection (it has happened to me with my TK11 on turbo, which is why I now keep it on the general mode for indoor use if I want that much light). For throwing light a long ways, the turbo mode and the reflector design may be just about perfect, but a tightly focused, super-bright, beam indoors is not necessarily ideal because *although there is such a thing as too little light, there is also such a thing as too much light.* I think that in close-range, white-wall, environments, 200/350 is too much, and 28 is too little for identifying hazards quickly (at least in a tactical environment). 

For this reason, and the reasons I stated previously, I humbly suggest removing the moonlight mode and adding in a medium-high mode to the standard interface.


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## riccardo (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



TwitchALot said:


> For this reason, and the reasons I stated previously, I humbly suggest removing the moonlight mode and adding in a medium-high mode to the standard interface.



quote, moreover I'd also like to change the "high" to "turbo" on standard interface. The two interface should be something like:

turbo - 80 lumens - 24 lumens - 4 lumens for normal mode
turbo - strobe - beacon - SOS for tactical mode


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## candle lamp (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

I think threads on either ends of tube are cleanly machined well, but those look like _triangle shape. Are not those _trapezoidal shape?


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## selfbuilt (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



carrot said:


> It should be possible to pick levels by feel. From a tightened bezel, is the first level, and 90º turn goes to the next level and so on.


Yes, this is actually quite easy to do in practice - especially if you leave the body clip attached (i.e. it gives you a good reference point for your 90 degree turns). As long as you know what mode set you are in (i.e. Regular or Special), no worries in making sure it comes on in the right level. 



SexieWASD said:


> Is there any chance that the remote switch will lego with the quarks? I really can't tell the size difference in the tail cap from the pics, but it looks close.


Sorry no - the G5 is larger, more in keeping with other lights in the class. Threading pattern is also different (finer on the G5 than the Quarks).



Burgess said:


> Can someone comment on the feasibility of using a small Magnet on an AW flat-top battery ? Do you forsee any issues if that magnet might "slip" during flashlight operation ? ? ?


I never recommend use of magnets for this reason - the risk of shorting the cell (by the magnet slipping to the side and thus connecting the positive and negative terminals through the body tube) is always a grave concern.

In this case, the G5 seems to have anodizing on the inside of the tube, and the battery is very firmly held in place (both of which are good to help reduce the risk). But unfortunately, there is also a large exposed contact disc at the head-end of the battery tube, which would facilitate the connection of the two terminals by the magnet (see body tube pics in the review).

At the end of the day, I personally never think it's worth the risk of damaging/exploding a 18650-cell just for the sake of a little extra runtime. :shakehead



TwitchALot said:


> In a light of this size and weight, and given the loss in efficiency of the moonlight mode due to circuit design, I think it's better to have a medium high mode of ~80 lumens than a moonlight mode.





riccardo said:


> quote, moreover I'd also like to change the "high" to "turbo" on standard interface. The two interface should be something like: turbo - 80 lumens - 24 lumens - 4 lumens for normal mode, turbo - strobe - beacon - SOS for tactical mode


+1. Although I'm also a fan of moonlight modes in general, in this case, those would be my preferences too.


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## Crenshaw (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

hmmmm, I have been waiting on this to decide if i want the the tk30 or this one. Or correct me, is the 600+ lumen model the other Maelstrom being produced?

Crenshaw


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## carrot (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

The 1000+ lumen models are the other two Maelstroms being produced, however they will have a different form factor.


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## Chevy-SS (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Nice review, many thanks!

As far as the UI is concerned, Turbo should have been available in both subsets. Casual users will ALWAYS want to have maximum light sometimes.



-


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## gnef (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

the main problem I see is if Turbo is on both subsets, you don't know which subset you are on, which would be very bad for a police officer who wants strobe, but gets medium instead.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



gnef said:


> the main problem I see is if Turbo is on both subsets, you don't know which subset you are on, which would be very bad for a police officer who wants strobe, but gets medium instead.


Hmmm, interesting point. Wanting to give someone a strobe, but instead giving them lower output, would seem a little, umm, Homer Simpson-ish. Doh! 

But then again, the difference between Hi and Turbo isn't so great that you would always be able to know with certainty which one you were on, unless you have just come from the other level (i.e. turning the light on for the first time at night, you may not be sure at first in which sequence set you were in, until you do the switch). Something tells me most folk would leave it in one mode or the other all the time anyway (and police would likely leave it in Special mode).

Of course, from that you could argue that Hi is good enough for the Regular mode anyway then.  But I understand the urge to want to have easy access to the highest possible output.


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## Connor (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

IMHO the best solution would be to add some programming logic to the Maelstrom so that the user could set any of the 8 (2x4) settings to exactly the level they want it too - if that would be too complicated for whatever reason, at least a choice of putting any of the 8 predetermined levels in the order one would want them would be nice. 
Add another way to enter this programming mode (e.g. 20 quick twists of the head in 10 seconds) and voila, everyone is happy with exactly the flashlight they want.

-Connor

PS: Thanks for the review selfbuilt. Excellent as usual.


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## 4sevens (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



romteb said:


> If i understand correctly, there is no way to know what mode the light is in other than turning it on ? This also implies that it will be a bit difficult to select a mode when the light is turned off, am i correct ?


The primary and secondary modes (tightened and immediately loose) can be selected easily while off. We're counting on Max/Strobe and High/medium being used 90% of the time. The others (aux1 and aux2) are just bonus outputs  

This is a tactical light. Meaning once you set it up, it's mean to just operate in a tactical scenario - the light should just be used on/off. One's attention should be focused on the situation and the light should not be a distraction. At the MOST two modes are needed Max and Strobe. Hope this helps.


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## 4sevens (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



TwitchALot said:


> For this reason, and the reasons I stated previously, I humbly suggest removing the moonlight mode and adding in a medium-high mode to the standard interface.


This first run is already in the states being assembled. The second run is being produced as we speak. The UI is done. The medium mode is brighter than you think. Once you play with it you'll see that the levels are rather space out nicely. We spent a considerable amount of time fine-tuning the spacing.


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## snala (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Fair enough. 
Why not Turbo rather than Hi in the non tactical options though? 
The 40 mins extra run time is nice but so is potential maximum output with the selectable lower options within easy reach too?


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## ti-force (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



snala said:


> Fair enough.
> Why not Turbo rather than Hi in the non tactical options though?
> The 40 mins extra run time is nice but so is potential maximum output with the selectable lower options within easy reach too?



The quote below sounds like a pretty good reason to me, and the reason for having Max and Strobe beside each other in the same mode set has already been explained:




gnef said:


> the main problem I see is if Turbo is on both subsets, you don't know which subset you are on, which would be very bad for a police officer who wants strobe, but gets medium instead.


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## sfca (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



ti-force said:


> The quote below sounds like a pretty good reason to me, and the reason for having Max and Strobe beside each other in the same mode set has already been explained:



The question also is would you even be able to tell the difference between 200 and 350 lumens without having to check the mode on the left?






If not - then 200 is more then enough. Extra runtime is just icing on the cake! As for the other modes available, yes I agree. Strobe isn't my favourite-test.. hopefully one day it'll be left out by all manufacturers. Medium fo' sure!


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## selfbuilt (Jul 12, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



4sevens said:


> The medium mode is brighter than you think. Once you play with it you'll see that the levels are rather space out nicely. We spent a considerable amount of time fine-tuning the spacing.


A fair comment about the Med mode. I highlighted it in my review only because it is lower than typical in absolute terms (i.e. lumens, or overall output). 

But in subjective terms, it still *seems* fairly bright. I suspect the reason for this is that the light is such a dedicated thrower - the hotspot still looks relatively bright, even at lower output, fooling your eye/brain into thinking it is brighter overall.


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## romteb (Jul 13, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



4sevens said:


> The primary and secondary modes (tightened and immediately loose)...Hope this helps.



Sure i (stupidly) thought one had to turn the head past 90° to access the second setting, immediatly loose is much better.


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## snala (Jul 13, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



ti-force said:


> The quote below sounds like a pretty good reason to me, and the reason for having Max and Strobe beside each other in the same mode set has already been explained:


 
Originally Posted by *gnef* 

 
_the main problem I see is if Turbo is on both subsets, you don't know which subset you are on, which would be very bad for a police officer who wants strobe, but gets medium instead._

Yep completely agree and understand why on the tactical interface it's grouped together with strobe for professional use.
But really, "using the Hi mode is just about the same as turbo" as reason enough not to have Turbo is a silly justification. Also the reason above only makes sense if you are admitting there is a discernable visual difference between the two outputs which counters that argument? Surely too with the post pre evaluation models having more output the difference will be even more exaggerated as well.
If you want the best thrower you can have then you want the highest output obtainable as well not a % of it surely. The differences might appear minimal up close but looking at targets through a scope at a distance they will be quite apparent
I'd be gun mounting this to get the most throw I can on targets while using optics to enhance it. I wouldn't want to be having to turn the head on the light whilst mounted back and forth 4 times while holding the weapon just to get to a lower output rather than just the normal 90 degrees to get to a lower output mode instead.
That's why I was interested in hearing why 4 sevens decided not to spec turbo on both interfaces as I don't think your answers are possibly the same as theirs based on the LEO user research they would have done?

Just my guess but I’d say if you asked most people here they would prefer to have Turbo rather than Hi in the non tactical interface top slot?


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## TwitchALot (Jul 13, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



sfca said:


> I admit I was once on the strobe bandwagon but I hope that in the future manufacturers will be pragmatic and let go of the strobe - unless the military/LEO market find a way to make it a necessity. Otherwise, it's a gimmick (for this use). Beacon I can see the use for - as well as SOS.



Well, strobe mode does make it harder to tell how many lights there really are and the exact position of the user. It _can_ also be disorientating. That said, not having it is not a dealbreaker, but it's nice having the option anyway. 



> Also, since this was intended to be a tactical light there should be a recoil spring behind the head, shouldn't there? This is a pre-production light so understandable that it's not there.
> Gun users - how would this light fair in use?
> 
> _ Edit: I see 4sevens post. Thanks for posting guys! :thumbsup:_



The design already seems to limit battery movement, perhaps making it unnecessary or redundant. That said, this doesn't mean that there isn't some sort of spring system inside the head for the pins.



riccardo said:


> quote, moreover I'd also like to change the "high" to "turbo" on standard interface. The two interface should be something like:
> 
> turbo - 80 lumens - 24 lumens - 4 lumens for normal mode
> turbo - strobe - beacon - SOS for tactical mode



I'd rather have the high and full regulation on 18650 than turbo and "okay" regulation on 18650, TBH. Plus, it's a decent step from the medium mode as is, and should be plenty bright enough for most purposes.



4sevens said:


> This first run is already in the states being assembled. The second run is being produced as we speak. The UI is done. The medium mode is brighter than you think. Once you play with it you'll see that the levels are rather space out nicely. We spent a considerable amount of time fine-tuning the spacing.



Well, nothing you can do there. Not cost-effective to make that kind of change even if it might be a good idea. Understandable. 



romteb said:


> Sure i (stupidly) thought one had to turn the head past 90° to access the second setting, immediatly loose is much better.



That's the impression I got. :shrug:


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## ti-force (Jul 13, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



snala said:


> Yep completely agree and understand why on the tactical interface it's grouped together with strobe for professional use.
> But really, "using the Hi mode is just about the same as turbo" as reason enough not to have Turbo is a silly justification. Also the reason above only makes sense if you are admitting there is a discernable visual difference between the two outputs which counters that argument? Surely too with the post pre evaluation models having more output the difference will be even more exaggerated as well.
> If you want the best thrower you can have then you want the highest output obtainable as well not a % of it surely. The differences might appear minimal up close but looking at targets through a scope at a distance they will be quite apparent
> I'd be gun mounting this to get the most throw I can on targets while using optics to enhance it. I wouldn't want to be having to turn the head on the light whilst mounted back and forth 4 times while holding the weapon just to get to a lower output rather than just the normal 90 degrees to get to a lower output mode instead.
> ...




It doesn't really matter why Max isn't available on both mode sets. It is what it is, and won't be changed anytime soon (just saying). We are a big part of 4sevens market, but this light is made as a Tactical light. 4sevens has been successful enough that I'm sure they know what will sell and won't sell. Apparently they see a huge market for this light so.....

As far as you using this light weapon mounted with the most throw possible tells me you will probably be using this as a hunting light. If you're using optics you're probably planning on 50+ yard shots. Set the light on Max and don't worry about it. This mode would work well at 20 or 30 yards also. If you're any closer than that, pull your knife out  j/k btw


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## LG&M (Jul 13, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

This looks like a great light but it's not for me. I am posting to say thanks for a great review and Wow. I looked at the list of light you have reviewed. A very impressive body of work. I am sure each one take a good deal of time and effort. :twothumbs
I would give you a list of light I would like to see you review but I am sure your list is long enough. Again thanks.


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## Xak (Jul 14, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Sounds like a great light, unfortunately I have an M20 already mounted on my AK and can't afford another tac light right now. The plus is by the time I can afford it all the bugs (if any) should be worked out and perhaps I can get one in neutral white!

What is the pressure switch like? On my M20 it is momentary only. Is this the same?


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## selfbuilt (Jul 14, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Review updated with additional specs from 4Sevens website. 

FYI, these are now up for sale here.

I believe there is a CPFMP thread with an additional discount over the usual CPF discount on 4Sevens.com, but the CPFMP site is down at the moment.


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## MichaelW (Jul 14, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

But can you apply the standard 4sevens :CPF8 8% discount on top of the :G5INTRO introductory price of $127.46?
$117.26 isn't bad, even if it is cool-white.


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## Machete God (Jul 14, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



MichaelW said:


> But can you apply the standard 4sevens :CPF8 8% discount on top of the :G5INTRO introductory price of $127.46?
> $117.26 isn't bad, even if it is cool-white.



Been there, tried that 

You cannot. It's one or the other


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## ti-force (Jul 14, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



Machete God said:


> Been there, tried that
> 
> You cannot. It's one or the other






MichaelW said:


> But can you apply the standard 4sevens :CPF8 8% discount on top of the :G5INTRO introductory price of $127.46?
> $117.26 isn't bad, even if it is cool-white.





Now that's just getting greedy j/k. I'm guilty myself; I tried the CPF8 during the "Garage sale" and found out very quickly that wasn't going to happen. I had to try though .


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## selfbuilt (Jul 15, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



MichaelW said:


> the :G5INTRO introductory price of $127.46?


Since CPFMP is still down, thanks for posting the 15% off G5INTRO code (as others have pointed out, it replaces the standard CPF8 code).

Frankly, I think this is a fairly good price with the discount, given the output, regulation and throw of the G5. :thumbsup:


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## henry1960 (Jul 15, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



selfbuilt said:


> Since CPFMP is still down, thanks for posting the 15% off G5INTRO code (as others have pointed out, it replaces the standard CPF8 code).
> 
> Frankly, I think this is a fairly good price with the discount, given the output, regulation and throw of the G5. :thumbsup:





Put My Order In This Morning And It`s Been Shipped!!!! :twothumbs


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## jirik_cz (Jul 15, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Great review and surprisingly good throw for XP-G light. :twothumbs
The price tag seems little bit high though.


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## henry1960 (Jul 15, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



jirik_cz said:


> Great review and surprisingly good throw for XP-G light. :twothumbs
> The price tag seems little bit high though.




You Want A Great Product It`s Worth Paying A Little More. (You Get What You Pay For) :tinfoil:


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## Burgess (Jul 15, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Looking forward to a *Neutral-White* model.



_


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## Pinkerton (Jul 15, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

First, a BIG thank you for the review. 

I must admit, I'm a bit disappointed about the UI.

Just my humble thoughts. I do nightshifts for a living, and I really need and use my flashlight. I can cope with the car's old magcharger, but I always carry my own light. My first owm light was a minimag, back in the day when that was "the light to have" 
I've been carrying my TK10 ( PreonII as a backup) for long enough, and I waited for this Malestorm series to be the bomb. I'm no swat team dude, who needs a strobe. I believe, that only swat-type fast entry/tactical response-etc. units actually need that kind of mode. 

IMHO, Normal beat cops and other "on duty" light users need only about two to three modes. "low", "med" and "givemeallyouvegot". I'd say that med is fine around 60-100 lumens, you can read and write, and do not blind yourself in dark enviroments. Max, well.. the more the better. Now, if the UI is as described, I'm afraid I have no use for this light. I need the max output next to med. 

So, I hope that 4sevens, as a manufacturer who actually listens to his customers, will someday make "a nightshift-series" light. 
Rugged, powerful, simple UI low-med-turbo, without any unnecessary "tactical" modes.


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## TwitchALot (Jul 16, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



henry1960 said:


> Put My Order In This Morning And It`s Been Shipped!!!! :twothumbs



What? I ordered two days ago and my order has the status, "incomplete."


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## Xak (Jul 16, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

"Just my humble thoughts. I do nightshifts for a living, and I really need and use my flashlight. I can cope with the car's old magcharger, but I always carry my own light. My first owm light was a minimag, back in the day when that was "the light to have" 
I've been carrying my TK10 ( PreonII as a backup) for long enough, and I waited for this Malestorm series to be the bomb. I'm no swat team dude, who needs a strobe. I believe, that only swat-type fast entry/tactical response-etc. units actually need that kind of mode. 

IMHO, Normal beat cops and other "on duty" light users need only about two to three modes. "low", "med" and "givemeallyouvegot". I'd say that med is fine around 60-100 lumens, you can read and write, and do not blind yourself in dark enviroments. Max, well.. the more the better. Now, if the UI is as described, I'm afraid I have no use for this light. I need the max output next to med. 

So, I hope that 4sevens, as a manufacturer who actually listens to his customers, will someday make "a nightshift-series" light. 
Rugged, powerful, simple UI low-med-turbo, without any unnecessary "tactical" modes."


The Quark Turbo should fit that bill just fine.


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## Pinkerton (Jul 16, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



Xak said:


> The Quark Turbo should fit that bill just fine.



well actually my TK10 puts out almost as much light as the quark turbo. But either of them is a match for the malestorm's 350 lumens. :shrug:


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## AussieRanga (Jul 16, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

I've just got a few questions about the regulation and runtimes of this light, hopefully someone can be of assistance.

Judging by the tables and graphs it appears that the 18650 cannot maintain full output for very long; you've got about 2000 less LUX in the table with 18650: how do you measure this, is it after a few minutes once output has settled down?

The runtime curve with the 18650 suggests to me that on Max you get light that's constantly dropping for over 2 hours, whereas the RCR appears to only light up for 38 minutes but at full regulation, they (RCRs) will also just 'die' all of a sudden opposed to giving you plenty of notice that you're about to run flat with 18650s?

Now onto High mode, it appears that again with the 18650 the light doesn't maintain constant output, rather the output slowly tapers off as well. 
Does it maintain regulation fairly well (appears to do so for ~120 mins), and maintain brightness most of the time only to taper off slightly at the end to let you know it's running low or is it always decreasing like Max but not to the same extent?

The runtime is roughly double (on high) that of RCR yet they hold their regulation the whole way, has this got something to do with the voltage and current draw being higher with 2xRCRs over an 18650?

I'm pretty sure I understand why the runtimes are longer, but it was just confusing to see the output dropping with the 18650, which to be honest I thought to be a better cell. I'm new to Li-ion and I'm just trying to work out if I want RCR or 18650s as it's also going to factor into a few other purchases over the coming months. I know I'll eventually get both but for now I'm just interested in the best for this light.

Also, is it safe to assume most primary CR123s will show similar runtime etc to the Duracell ones?


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## ACHË (Jul 16, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

I'm *really *liking this light! 


The size is a huge plus for me...The Malestrom is at that perfect sweet spot size-wise for my personal preference(_the Spear being the reference_). It also looks good.


If I had the cash I'd order one, like right now....


Hmmm...maybe I should look for a job at 4Sevens :devil: 

Any openings for flashlight field testers? I could be your Jungle testing facility guy :laughing: :laughing:


Awesome light...just awesome...

Great review as usual Selfbuilt:thumbsup:


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## Vernon (Jul 16, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

I'm about to take the G5 to the beach for a week, so I'll really know how I like it over the next few days. However, my first impressions are positive. I like the size and feel, for sure. The led does give a quick flicker when initiating (clicking on) the medium mode, but it's only a problem on medium for some reason. 

It's BRIGHT. I lit up three deer last night with both my 200 lumen E2DL and the G5 and I must say, the G5 can really kick out some light. It's so nice to have an XP-G thrower in the mix.

I completely understand the tactical concept for this light, so I'm in no position to complain since I bought the light with a clear understanding of the UI. I definitely wish that Turbo was an option in the "L - M - H" mode. It's incredibly annoying having to switch back and forth between modes just to access Turbo versus L-M-H.


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## Lawliet (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



AussieRanga said:


> The runtime is roughly double (on high) that of RCR yet they hold their regulation the whole way, has this got something to do with the voltage and current draw being higher with 2xRCRs over an 18650?



Regulation has to do with the higher voltage. A buck circuit works fine as long as battery voltage is higher then the led forward voltage for the desired current. With a single 18650 and XP-G-LEDs that works about until
the cell is half empty, from there on its slowly dimming direct drive.
With two RCR123 you've got constant light until the protection of one of the cells trips. 

But the runtime difference can be explained simply by energy content of the cells. The RCRs have 2*3,7*750 = 5,5Wh; the 18650 has 3,7*2600=9,5Wh, almost twice as much. The torch putting out more light later on accounts for any power thats unaccounted for.


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## Chevy-SS (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



Vernon said:


> ........ I definitely wish that Turbo was an option in the "L - M - H" mode. It's incredibly annoying having to switch back and forth between modes just to access Turbo versus L-M-H.




Yeah, me too. I truly don't understand the thought process. I ordered a G5 anyway, but for me this is gonna be a defensive light, so turbo and strobe are the only things I'm really concerned with.

4Sevens, you guys really should have 'Turbo' available in each subset.

It would be infinitely better if these high-end lights would come out with fully programmable UI's, that could (with small USB-type cable) be totally customized to each user's preference. I gotta believe this is right around the corner........

-


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## selfbuilt (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



AussieRanga said:


> Judging by the tables and graphs it appears that the 18650 cannot maintain full output for very long; you've got about 2000 less LUX in the table with 18650: how do you measure this, is it after a few minutes once output has settled down?


My Throw measures (lux) are typically taken within the first 30 secs after ignition. In rare cases (i.e. some high output, multi-emitter lights) where there is an initial drop-off followed by flat regulation within a min or two, I will wait for the regulated level (and note such in the review). But as you notice here, the light is direct-drive on max on 18650, so there is no point in waiting - it does not reach regulation.

As for your other points, it has to do with the difference in battery capacity and how the circuit handles different voltage inputs. In multi-power lights like this one, on 1x3.7V Li-ion sources (i.e. 18650) the buck circuit can typically only provide regulation until the emitter Vf is reached - at which point it switches into direct-drive (as Lawliet already explained). This is not a bad thing, as it is efficient and prevents you from hitting a protection circuit cut-off inadvertently. 

It is also very hard to design a circuit that is completely regulated on all sources - as you will note in the comparisons, most multi-power lights are direct-drive from the beginning on Max on 1x18650 (like this one).


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## gnef (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



Chevy-SS said:


> ...It would be infinitely better if these high-end lights would come out with fully programmable UI's, that could (with small USB-type cable) be totally customized to each user's preference. I gotta believe this is right around the corner........
> 
> -



There were plans for a fully programmable light by jsburly, indium smart, if I remember correctly, but the costs were prohibitively high, and the lights were never manufactured. It isn't just the circuit, but also the software that was necessary for the interface. If you want a light like the G5, but usb programmable, expect to be paying at least a couple hundred dollars more (I believe the intro price was 350).

I believe it will be quite a while before there is a fully programmable light for 150. It seems like it will need to start at around 300-500, and then if it is popular enough, and enough lights are made, it may eventually drop in price, but I think that will be quite a ways away.


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## powernoodle (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

A little consumer feedback here. I don't own a G5, but I'm going to count my dozen or so purchases from 4seven (and hundreds of bucks spent) as making me qualified to comment. 

The "4 turn" method of switching between "sets" seems cumbersome, and requires two hands, and like others have noted, I'd like to see the Max setting on the same "set" as the lower outputs. Additionally, the light's incompatibility with 18650 flat top cells is another bummer. I don't want to have to find and mess with a magnet, and the commentary in another thread that it "should work" is not confidence inspiring.

350 OTF is way sweet, and goofy bright considering that Surefire's 60 lumens was big stuff not that long ago it seems.

But the UI and 18650 flat top things are a deal breaker for me. A few levels accessed by simply turning the head would be awesome, like the U2 for example. Max>hi>med>low>moon>strobe. I'll be watching, though, for whatever else 4sevens has in store for us.


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## Lawliet (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



Chevy-SS said:


> It would be infinitely better if these high-end lights would come out with fully programmable UI's,



That might be teasing for the enthusiast. But it could be a big con for the high volume customers. The average fire or police department will want a tool thats as foolproof as possible (Think Fenix TK11/12. Why would a hobby user buy the current incarnation of the TK11?). Having someone learn the programming thing may be ok, but a mishap because of two guys getting their lights mixed up - who shall take the blame? 

But then a blend of the Quark Tactical and Maelstrom-UI would be just right for me.


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## ebow86 (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

I'm anxious to wait and see how the quality control reports are over the next few months, to see if quark is starting to improve.


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## snala (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



powernoodle said:


> The "4 turn" method of switching between "sets" seems cumbersome, and requires two hands, and like others have noted, I'd like to see the Max setting on the same "set" as the lower outputs. Additionally, the light's incompatibility with 18650 flat top cells is another bummer. I don't want to have to find and mess with a magnet, and the commentary in another thread that it "should work" is not confidence inspiring.
> 
> 
> But the UI and 18650 flat top things are a deal breaker for me. A few levels accessed by simply turning the head would be awesome, like the U2 for example. Max>hi>med>low>moon>strobe. I'll be watching, though, for whatever else 4sevens has in store for us.


 
I agree. Dealbreaker for me is when used on Max this is effectively a 1 mode light and then Max/Hi are both not regulated on 18650 either which you need to use to get decent runtime. I was looking for this to replace my Tiablo A9 but for $150 and the above reasons it just isn't going to.
Realise this is intended for Pro CQB use and CR123's so is limited because of that.

A consumer model fully regulated with 1 set of 4 modes only; Max, Hi, Med and Low, so remove the changeover UI, just have one bezal, no pouch? and then sell for the $100 they said originally, would be the huge seller I think? 
Would be worth the extra money over the $77 TK12(R5) or even the $75 Quark Turbo for it's better reflector design and higher output.


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## carrot (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Hi, removing programmed features does not change the cost of any components in the light, and hence would not result in a price drop.


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## AardvarkSagus (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

More than likely, it would be a price increase since it would be a special run.


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## GreySave (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Vernon:

I have that flicker or what I refer to as a momentary ramp up / reverse preflash kind of thing. A "flicker" might be more accurate, Happens every time on mine only on medium (28 lumen setting I believe) as well. Now based on the assumption that this is going to be present on many of these lights I have to say that although it is there, it is not an issue in real life use and is really not a reason to avoid the light. I actually kind of like it becuase I know exactly what mode I am current using as soon as the light comes on.


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## TwitchALot (Jul 17, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



AussieRanga said:


> Now onto High mode, it appears that again with the 18650 the light doesn't maintain constant output, rather the output slowly tapers off as well.
> Does it maintain regulation fairly well (appears to do so for ~120 mins), and maintain brightness most of the time only to taper off slightly at the end to let you know it's running low or is it always decreasing like Max but not to the same extent?



The regulation seems fine on high with an 18650 (I'm not quite sure what charts you're looking at, but the ones I'm looking at seem fine). It tapers off a bit toward the end of its battery life, but that's to be expected.



> The runtime is roughly double (on high) that of RCR yet they hold their regulation the whole way, has this got something to do with the voltage and current draw being higher with 2xRCRs over an 18650?



I'm not an expert on these matters, but the RCR's will provide enough voltage to maintain a well-regulated (and lower) current draw. A single li-ion, on the other hand, must supply far more current to make up for the reduced voltage. 



> I'm pretty sure I understand why the runtimes are longer, but it was just confusing to see the output dropping with the 18650, which to be honest I thought to be a better cell. I'm new to Li-ion and I'm just trying to work out if I want RCR or 18650s as it's also going to factor into a few other purchases over the coming months. I know I'll eventually get both but for now I'm just interested in the best for this light.



It's not simply the cell (nor would I say that one is "better" than another). You need to consider the power requirements and regulation of the specific light. 



> Also, is it safe to assume most primary CR123s will show similar runtime etc to the Duracell ones?



Not all cells are equal, either. You may want to consider looking at the CR123A shootouts that have been done to compare batteries.



powernoodle said:


> The "4 turn" method of switching between "sets" seems cumbersome, and requires two hands, and like others have noted, I'd like to see the Max setting on the same "set" as the lower outputs. Additionally, the light's incompatibility with 18650 flat top cells is another bummer. I don't want to have to find and mess with a magnet, and the commentary in another thread that it "should work" is not confidence inspiring.



The production model G5 I have works with flat tops on the primary and secondary modes. More on that in my review (to come later).



snala said:


> I agree. Dealbreaker for me is when used on Max this is effectively a 1 mode light and then Max/Hi are both not regulated on 18650 either which you need to use to get decent runtime.



I'm curious as to what graphs everyone is looking at. The regulation on 18650 on high seems fine (not perfect, but definitely there) to me. Most multi-mode, multi-battery, lights don't have flat-regulation on 18650's as is, so it's surprising to me that this is a surprise to people. It's not easy to get perfect regulation over such a wide voltage range, especially given the power requirements of this light.


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## AussieRanga (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thanks for the replies, as for which graphs I was looking at - the ones on the first page of this review. 
I guess it seems (in the first pic) a little hard to read at a quick glance. I had another look and it appears to hold regulation well then eventually drops out and slowly drops output from there. I guess for some this would be more desirable as you're only running a single cell and you'll actually get a little notice that you're about to run out of power (assuming you can notice the drop in output) instead of protection suddenly kicking in and shutting you down.


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## snala (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



TwitchALot said:


> I'm curious as to what graphs everyone is looking at. The regulation on 18650 on high seems fine (not perfect, but definitely there) to me. Most multi-mode, multi-battery, lights don't have flat-regulation on 18650's as is, so it's surprising to me that this is a surprise to people. It's not easy to get perfect regulation over such a wide voltage range, especially given the power requirements of this light.


 
Yes it's okay for 2 hours on high on the chart in this review but then drops off over the 3rd hour? If people find that okay when using it at only 57% of the lights advertised max output then fine. Buy this as a semi regulated multimode 200 lumen thrower only then and compare it against the other options at this level in beamshots? My main concern is the fact it can't do it's maximum 350 lumen output for very long at all and constantly decreases means you won't know what you will get on max/hi unless you use fresh batteries every time. Fine for LEO's using new primaries everytime they bust a house but not so good for users over a whole night. I mean it looks like a good light but the advertised max isn't really that useful in my opinion when it can't hold it and you'd also expect longer than 2 hours at 57% of max (200 lumens) then. The old R2 did that at full noise so....? 
Your second point, Selfbuilts review of the TK12 (R5), that has multiple levels and it's flat all the way the through on all modes using all batteries and on high at 285 lumens for 2.25 hours? My TK30 manages 2 hours on 1 18650 as well at reduced output like this one does but at least it's flat all the way and still outputs 370 lumens so why can't the G5 do this too, especially for $150?


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## gnef (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



snala said:


> ... Fine for LEO's using new primaries everytime they bust a house but not so good for users over a whole night...



I think you answered your own question. This light was designed for those in truly tactical situations. How many of us use our lights in truly tactical situations?

The way I see your gripe, is that you are more upset that the light wasn't catered specifically to your desires. This is quite understandable as many of us were eagerly expecting this light, and hoping it would fulfill our personal wants (just look at the original thread over in the marketplace).

You are upset that it isn't fully regulated on 18650's, that is because it was designed to be run on primaries for police/military/etc. departments that don't use rechargeable batteries to my understanding. The ability to use 18650 at all was a compromise for those here in CPF, same thing with having a moon mode. What police department would be using this light in moon mode?

If you look purely at the technology and design, you should see why it costs what it does. How many other XP-G lights can throw this well?

Is it worth the money for me? I haven't decided yet. Like people always say, vote with your wallet. This may just not be the light for you, and I think that is fine.

I am really waiting for the S12. I know that the S18 coming out is designed to only run on primary batteries as well, at least to my current understanding. This is again for the purpose of who the light is intended for.

So what I am trying to say, is: This light probably isn't for you. You talked about other lights that satisfy you, so you should stick with those lights. If in the future that you decide that you like the features of this light, then you can purchase it then. I highly doubt that there will be significant changes to the UI at this point for the light for the near (and maybe indefinite) future. I have been known to be wrong though.


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## red02 (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Any chance for 5 meter lux figures to see how well the beam converges compared to the lights in the first post?


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## gnef (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



red02 said:


> Any chance for 5 meter lux figures to see how well the beam converges compared to the lights in the first post?



ti-force did the lux readings in his review of the light:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/282339


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## TwitchALot (Jul 18, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



Snala said:


> Yes it's okay for 2 hours on high on the chart in this review but then drops off over the 3rd hour?


 
From self-builts chart, you have a relative overall light output of 85 or so on high with an 18650. Over the last hour, it drops to about 75, which is about a 12% drop on a single 18650. You lose more light through the reflector and lens than that. You get 200 lumens for two hours, and 175 for the last hour at it's pretty much lowest point. That’s not exactly a, “ohs noes” situation- you probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference unless you were comparing it side by side and were looking hard. An average of about 190 lumens over three hours is not bad at all on a single, 2200 mAh, battery. 



> *If people find that okay when using it at only 57% of the lights advertised max output then fine.* Buy this as a semi regulated multimode 200 lumen thrower only then and compare it against the other options at this level in beamshots? *My main concern is the fact it can't do it's maximum 350 lumen output for very long at all* and constantly decreases means you won't know what you will get on max/hi unless you use fresh batteries every time.


Or just use two batteries, which are even included in the package? You’re issues only hold on an 18650. Which production light were you thinking of that puts out a constant 350 lumens OTF on a single 2200 mAh 18650 for two hours? 

In any event, the solution is real simple. If you want to run the G5 on maximum power and have full regulation, do your part and put some batteries in it. High mode will get the job done in the vast majority of circumstances. If you want the maximum 350 lumens over 150+ yards (depending on lighting conditions, it can go way farther), you’re going have to give it some juice. That’s not an unreasonable expectation given the capabilities of this light and the limitations of the power source. 

But honestly, high should do the job. I’d suspect you haven’t used the light if you don’t think it won’t. 



> Fine for LEO's using new primaries everytime they bust a house but not so good for users over a whole night. I mean it looks like a good light but the advertised max isn't really that useful in my opinion when it can't hold it…


 Again, on a single 18650. And then there’s the fact that this was intended as a LEO light, and LEO’s (rightfully so) don’t run 18650s or other protected cells that can be damaged from recoil or impacts. The light performs just fine when you give it the voltage it needs to run at that output level. If you’re going to use the light over a whole night at that output level, you’re going to need spare batteries no matter what light you have anyway.



> …and you'd also expect longer than 2 hours at 57% of max (200 lumens) then. The old R2 did that at full noise so....?


 Which R2 light put out 200 lumens of fully regulated output for more than two hours on a single 18650 (2200 mAh) while having a range from .2 to 350 lumens OTF? It’s MUCH harder to get regulation over a wider voltage and output range. The TK12 R5 you referred to gets a little over two hours until it gets to 50% of it’s output on a higher capacity battery, and the output range isn’t nearly as high. The G5 gets a little over three hours at a little less output over a wider range… on a lower capacity battery. I’m not sure where you’re seeing this huge discrepancy. 



> Your second point, Selfbuilts review of the TK12 (R5), that has multiple levels and it's flat all the way the through on all modes using all batteries and on high at 285 lumens for 2.25 hours?


 The TK 12 has an output range 25% smaller than the G5 and has about a 5% drop in relative output before the two-hour mark… on a battery with a higher capacity than the one tested with the G5. The G5 puts out a little less light for an hour longer on a lower capacity battery. I mean jeez, why don’t you stick two RCR123As in and take issue with the fact that the run time is lower than if you were using primaries? 



> My TK30 manages 2 hours on 1 18650 as well at reduced output like this one does but at least it's flat all the way and still outputs 370 lumens so why can't the G5 do this too, especially for $150?


The G5 in its high setting puts out *more light* for a *longer period of time* on a probably *lower capacity battery * in a *smaller size* than the TK30 on its “175 lumen” setting, *assuming the specifications given by Fenix on the TK30 are true and accurate*, which they were not with the TK40 (which uses the same emitter as the TK30). So I'm not really sure what the complaint is about here. 

And on a side note, could you please link me to the IS/runtime/lightbox tests you’re referring to with the TK30?


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## trailblazer (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

I was seconds away from buying one but after looking at the mode layout it was definitely a nogo for me. As soon as the Turbo mode is added with the other levels I will reconsider.


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## snala (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



TwitchALot said:


> The G5 in its high setting puts out *more light* for a *longer period of time* on a probably *lower capacity battery *in a *smaller size* than the TK30 on its “175 lumen” setting, *assuming the specifications given by Fenix on the TK30 are true and accurate*, which they were not with the TK40 (which uses the same emitter as the TK30). So I'm not really sure what the complaint is about here.
> 
> And on a side note, could you please link me to the IS/runtime/lightbox tests you’re referring to with the TK30?


 
I tried but can't find the post. I think HJK? did the runtime graphs and output test on the TK30. What you said above if you meant the 175 setting as a comparison, TK30 goes for over 4 hours on that setting?
The 370 lumen setting, so Max with one 2400 cell goes for just under 2 hours non stop on mine when I use it for mountain biking.

All yours fair points for sure. I am meaning 18650 support exclusively which as 4 sevens says was put in for consumer use so okay I admit it's a compromise. I'm just highlighting that for the guys out there that are considering this light for maximum throw but not going to use primaries at an hour a time you want to be careful if you expext to use it consistantly on Max over a whole nightshift. Obviously not in the same form factor but an optional extension tube would give consumers more options around utilising it's maximum potential?


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## selfbuilt (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



snala said:


> Your second point, Selfbuilts review of the TK12 (R5), that has multiple levels and it's flat all the way the through on all modes using all batteries and on high at 285 lumens for 2.25 hours?


The TK12 is remarkable in its regulation - but it is also an exception among multi-power flashlights.

I realize people may not like seeing that the G5 is direct-drive on Turbo, and only partially fully-regulated on Hi - but this is pretty consistent with most other lights. And to be fair, the drop-off in output is gradual enough that you would never notice it if it weren't for the lightbox testing here.

Personally, I've never had an issue with direct-drive on 18650 - I find it incredibly efficient, and gradual enough not to notice the loss of output over time. In some ways, I think the runtime graphs do a diservice on these lights, as they highlight difference that may not be too significant in practice.

But as an aside, my lightbox is not linear across all output ranges - the drop in output (as measured in lumens) would actually be greater than what my lightbox reports. So percent calculations are misleading - you would need a true integrating sphere to quantify properly. But again, not sure if it matters so much in practice. :shrug:



red02 said:


> Any chance for 5 meter lux figures to see how well the beam converges compared to the lights in the first post?


Actually, all the lux figures in the tables in my review were done at 1m, like the G5. This is why I only did 1m this time - to insure consistency in reporting compared to those earlier lights.

It is only my high-output multi-emitter reviews that I've switched to 5m testing (i.e. I haven't wanted to go back and re-measure every light I've done). But I agree it is more accurate, so here is what my G5 gets:

G5 1x18650 Turbo: 720 lux @5m (i.e. 26.8 "throw"), which converts to 18000 lux @1m (134 "throw")

G5 2xRCR Turbo: 870 lux @5m (i.e.29.5 "throw"), which converts to 21750 lux @1m (i.e. 147 "throw)

But again, if you want to compare to my older reviews, you need to look at the measured 1m data to keep apples-to-apples comparisons.


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## recDNA (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



selfbuilt said:


> The TK12 is remarkable in its regulation - but it is also an exception among multi-power flashlights.
> 
> I realize people may not like seeing that the G5 is direct-drive on Turbo, and only partially fully-regulated on Hi - but this is pretty consistent with most other lights. And to be fair, the drop-off in output is gradual enough that you would never notice it if it weren't for the lightbox testing here.
> 
> ...


 

Are these numbers still with the prototype or with the production model? It's been hypothesized that the production model will have more output but it could have less too. Until we see numbers there is no way to know.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



recDNA said:


> Are these numbers still with the prototype or with the production model? It's been hypothesized that the production model will have more output but it could have less too. Until we see numbers there is no way to know.


Still my pre-release review model. I haven't seen the production version.


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## andyw513 (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Great review as usual! Liked all the runtime info too.


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## red02 (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



selfbuilt said:


> Actually, all the lux figures in the tables in my review were done at 1m, like the G5. This is why I only did 1m this time - to insure consistency in reporting compared to those earlier lights.
> 
> It is only my high-output multi-emitter reviews that I've switched to 5m testing (i.e. I haven't wanted to go back and re-measure every light I've done). But I agree it is more accurate, so here is what my G5 gets:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, for throwers 5m lux data is very valuable as it gives a better description of beam convergence. I know this value will be very helpful for people looking for good information about the G5. I appreciate the outdoor beamshots since this is probably how the light will be used in real life.

The reason why I ask for another light to compare it to is because different light meters see lux differently. 5m lux data from another popular light could serve as a metric by which we could accurately do an apples-to-apples comparison of lights taken from this reviews and other reviews since we could then derive a % difference for lux and do a true comparison. Just like we can compare different sources based on 1m lux using the table on the first page.



selfbuilt said:


> The TK12 is remarkable in its regulation - but it is also an exception among multi-power flashlights.


Aren't most Eagletac lights incredibly well regulated. I recall seeing a T100c2 runtime graph and it was regulated on both cr123s and 18650s with the later providing more runtime.


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## powernoodle (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



gnef said:


> This light was designed for those in truly tactical situations.



I suspect that law enforcement sales of this light will constitute a low percentage of overall sales. This is just my subjective opinion, but I would be happy to see some evidence to the contrary.

I say this only because we see products from Maxpedition ("Operator Tactical Attache") and Spyderco ("Police" and "Military" knives), for example, which are purportedly made for "tactical" applications, but seem to end up primarily in the hands of pudgy 48 year old non-tactical types like me. 

I love the aforementioned vendors btw, including 4Seven. I'm just sometimes reluctant to buy into the "tactical" marketing hype.


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## red02 (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



powernoodle said:


> I suspect that law enforcement sales of this light will constitute a low percentage of overall sales. This is just my subjective opinion, but I would be happy to see some evidence to the contrary.
> 
> I say this only because we see products from Maxpedition ("Operator Tactical Attache") and Spyderco ("Police" and "Military" knives), for example, which are purportedly made for "tactical" applications, but seem to end up primarily in the hands of pudgy 48 year old non-tactical types like me.
> 
> I love the aforementioned vendors btw, including Fenix. I'm just sometimes reluctant to buy into the "tactical" marketing hype.



4sevens did run their WW XPG line with fewer committed buyers than they wanted. None of those limited run lights have been sold out so far, which probably means that they took a lose on it. 

I hope they had a few contracts out for the G5 before starting production...


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## gnef (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



powernoodle said:


> I suspect that law enforcement sales of this light will constitute a low percentage of overall sales. This is just my subjective opinion, but I would be happy to see some evidence to the contrary.
> 
> I say this only because we see products from Maxpedition ("Operator Tactical Attache") and Spyderco ("Police" and "Military" knives), for example, which are purportedly made for "tactical" applications, but seem to end up primarily in the hands of pudgy 48 year old non-tactical types like me.
> 
> I love the aforementioned vendors btw, including 4Seven. I'm just sometimes reluctant to buy into the "tactical" marketing hype.



You could very well be right. This is just my opinion, but I think 4sevens is trying to get into other markets, and this light is the first in that effort (then the S18, I still see the S12 being more for us - the hobbyists). The way I see it, if 4sevens can start selling to multiple police departments and the military, then that will provide a huge source of income, and allow him to be able to be more flexible with us and bring more products with an even greater diversity. I don't see that many manufacturers that are entering into so many markets with a line as diverse as 4sevens.

So right now, he may be selling more to hobbyists, but perhaps he has his sights on something more?


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## TwitchALot (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



Snala said:


> I tried but can't find the post. I think HJK? did the runtime graphs and output test on the TK30. What you said above if you meant the 175 setting as a comparison, TK30 goes for over 4 hours on that setting?
> 
> The 370 lumen setting, so Max with one 2400 cell goes for just under 2 hours non stop on mine when I use it for mountain biking.


 
I’ll look for it later, perhaps. My mistake on the runtime, but everything else should be accurate. That said, I’ll have to hold off until I see IS results on the output.

I will also say your comparison is an apples to oranges one, and rather unfair. The TK30 is not only bigger and heavier, it also uses a different emitter. Although I don’t know much about the MC-E, I would suspect that it’s multiple LED’s and presumably larger size would allow for greater output- at the expense of throw. A brief look at that datasheets indicates that it definitely has more luminous flux than the XP-G at comparable current levels. Thus, although the MC-E is brighter, it would not be able to achieve the throw the G5 can without a significantly larger reflector and/or significantly greater output. 

And lo and behold, the head is huge on the TK30; have fun pocketing it. So even if the TK30’s throw is comparable to the G5 (and it might not be if the reflector size cannot accommodate the larger emitter sufficiently), it comes in a heavier, longer, fatter, package with fewer accessories, and fewer modes. 



> All yours fair points for sure. I am meaning 18650 support exclusively which as 4 sevens says was put in for consumer use so okay I admit it's a compromise. I'm just highlighting that for the guys out there that are considering this light for maximum throw but not going to use primaries at an hour a time you want to be careful if you expext to use it consistantly on Max over a whole nightshift. Obviously not in the same form factor but an optional extension tube would give consumers more options around utilising it's maximum potential?


 No light I’m aware of is going to be able to put out that much light on a single battery for 8+ hours (a night shift). So either way, you’re going to have to switch batteries if you want that output level for that length of time. The 200 lumen setting on the G5 will get the job done in my experience. The 350 lumen setting is cool, I admit, and performs a LITTLE better visually, but from experience, I can tell you right now that you can run an 18650 on the 200 lumen setting and not be disappointed. The G5 puts out, and it’s driving its LED probably as hard as it can go. If super-super throw is your goal (at the expense of being able to see anything next to you), you may want to consider an aspheric or other setup. While the G5 is a thrower, it’s not purely designed to be a thrower- it’s also designed to be useful at close ranges too, and it does a fantastic job of doing so. It beats out the TK30 in a comparable battery setup in all but runtime and maybe a little bit of brightness. But given the emitter difference alone, that’s to be expected. 

Finally, on the extension tube- while I generally like options, I’m not sure how cost-effective that would be for 4Sevens. One of the appeals of the G5 is its output, throw, and runtime *for its form factor*. I found the G5 to be pretty pocketable in my pants (more on that in my review), but I can tell you right now that I probably wouldn’t be so comfortable with the massive head of the TK30 in my pocket somewhere. To add an extension tube would increase the price, but not offer too many benefits- if you want a light that big, you may want to consider bumping up to a 3 X 18650 or other form factor utilizing perhaps an SST emitter. You’d get way more brightness, and depending on the reflector design, may get better throw. But again, that wouldn’t be comparable to the G5.


I’ll talk about this a bit in my review, but make no mistake about it- the G5 is an advanced light that does its job well. It’s not outdated by any means. And while it’s not perfect, nor certainly perfect for everyone, it does its job of sending light downrange very well- in a *smaller, lighter, more versatile, weapon-mountable, package than its competitors*. And it comes with great accessories to boot. 

So for anyone curious, I’d give the G5 a chance on high with an 18650. Then, when you consider all of the factors involved, and not just the brightness and runtimes, you’ll realize what a stellar package you have. Anyone can make a very bright light that can throw far with a long run time. The question is, how big is it going to be? I can tell you right now, for what it can do, the G5 packs a wallop in a pocketable package.


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## gnef (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

I am still undecided on whether I will get this light or not, but if I do, I would use it with RCR's on max, and keep the batteries topped off. 

I think I may be one of the minority here that always like to use flashlights at their maximum output. (almost all of my lights are multi-mode lights, and I like having that flexibility, but I generally use them all at their max setting)

I keep primary CR123 batteries in a pelican case in the car and at home, so if I needed longer run time, I go through the rechargeable batteries first, then go to primary batteries that I have on hand in almost all circumstances (and for the other circumstances, most of my other lights also use 123 batteries, so I could scavenge from the other lights I carry)


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## selfbuilt (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



red02 said:


> Thanks for the info, for throwers 5m lux data is very valuable as it gives a better description of beam convergence. I know this value will be very helpful for people looking for good information about the G5. I appreciate the outdoor beamshots since this is probably how the light will be used in real life.


Agreed, and this is my new standard for high output lights and throwers. The problem is just insuring "backward compatibility" when comparing to older reviews done at 1m. As you can see from my 5m G5 data, computed throw @1m is higher than measured @1m (this is common on throwy lights).

And stay tuned for the outdoor beamshots ... more coming soon! 



> Aren't most Eagletac lights incredibly well regulated. I recall seeing a T100c2 runtime graph and it was regulated on both cr123s and 18650s with the later providing more runtime.


Yes, the T100C2 (XR-E Q5) was another incredibly well regulated light on Max on 18650. But it too was an exception - the later P20C2, T20C2 and T20C2-II are all direct drive on max on 18650 (as is standard).


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## copperfox (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Got mine yesterday. There is a slight dark spot in the center of the hotspot. It's not too noticeable, but it's there. I would love to have this light with a light orange peel reflector. Anybody know if the reflector is removable?


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## was.lost.but.now.found (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



copperfox said:


> There is a slight dark spot in the center of the hotspot. It's not too noticeable, but it's there.


 
At what distance(s)?


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## GreySave (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

I have that as well. Did not mention it anywhere else because in practical use it is not a factor. If you white wall hunt you will see it at about 5 or 6 feet. Closer to the wall the beam stays tighter and is bright as heck. As you move away the beam starts to expand and the cenhter of the hotspot darkens where on a dedicated thrower it will stay tight and bright.

Again not a factor in practical use, at least to me. I chalked it up to the nature of the emitter (wide beam in general) and the limitations of the size of the reflectorwhich keep the G5 manageable as compared to the dedicated throwers.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 20, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

_*UPDATE*: Some additional long-distance beamshots, to show you how the light compares to others in its class. 

Please see my recent 100-yard Outdoor Beamshot review for more details (and additional lights)._


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## icehunter (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thanks for the GIF pictures. I read your other review thread with the smaller pictures and had a hard time seeing the difference. Fitting each gif picture in this review on the whole screen and watching the cycle of different lights does make a big difference in the feel for the lights. 

The G5 fits the distance range that I need in a light, you can see the surroundings AND have good focus spot. In fact I would have ordered it already if there was a pressure switch available.

Love the UI, who needs a low/medium in a light like this? When I don´t need to light up the whole forest, I´ll use a headlight anyway.

Hope the S12 will have the same UI.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



icehunter said:


> Thanks for the GIF pictures. I read your other review thread with the smaller pictures and had a hard time seeing the difference. Fitting each gif picture in this review on the whole screen and watching the cycle of different lights does make a big difference in the feel for the lights.


Yeah, I've always like using the animated GIF approach (you'll see it on my tint round-up comparisons, available on my master list in my sig). But do check out the main 100-yard round-up comparison for even more shots.

The apheric A9 comparison is particularly amusing - you can see the square die-shape from the max focus.


----------



## victory (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Look at all of those thoughtful tactical features they paired with that worthless UI. Can 4sevens just make a 350ish lumen head for my Gladius so i can stop waiting for them to get their UI right for serious work?


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## gnef (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

And what serious work do you do with your flashlights?


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## victory (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



gnef said:


> And what serious work do you do with your flashlights?



Plenty of it.

There's tactical looking then there's tactical in function. All the flash settings aside from the strobe have no place on this flashlight, nor is the lack of one hand operation acceptable for what this is being marketed for.

This is a shiny toy, not a tactical flashlight.


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## gnef (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Good description.

There are two primary modes, with the tightened mode being the one that is expected to be used most, and the just loosened to be the second used most. The auxiliaries are just there so that you have more options for the very few times they are needed, if at all. That is how the light was designed.

This light to me, seems to be more designed to set it and leave it, but gives you the option of changing modes when you need/want to.

So since you didn't really give a description for how you used your lights, perhaps you don't really use your lights in true tactical situations? Or maybe you don't understand the reasonings for the design of the light?


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## victory (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Can you strobe then switch to steady output with one hand? No

Can you switch to low output without turning the light on and strobing 350 lumens at everything around you first? No. But at least the bad guys won't hear your light making a click sound while you **** with it.

If you are, for instance, on the secondary group and want to turn the flashlight on in the moonlight mode, is there anyway tactile way to figure out which mode you'll be in by turning the bezel? No

My gripes with the UI shouldn't require posting a resume nor is it any of your business. This is the internet and as such my self-reported accolades are more than meaningless. Furthermore, I have no interest in whipping it out to see whose is bigger. Go find someone you trust has the background required in order for you to trust their opinions on this matter and ask them If the issues i have seem legitimate.


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## gnef (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Is that how you really use YOUR lights? Or are you just making random stuff up?

I mean, seriously, the instances that you are citing would be maybe 1% of the time this light would be used.

Think of the people that this light was designed for. They will primarily be using the light on max. Period. Sometimes they will be using strobe, but I would assume in most instances you don't need to switch immediately from strobe to max.

I don't see tactical users to be in the second group of outputs at all, those were designed for 'us' hobbyists that have been following the light. (I actually have had my Quark Turbo set for quite a while on the same primary and secondary outputs of the tactical interface: max/strobe)

victory - are you even in any sort of law enforcement? You do realize that the design of this light took into consideration the input from a police department, right? This light was designed for LEO's and people in that line of work, so perhaps this light isn't for you. Calling the UI worthless though is naive.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 21, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



victory said:


> Can you strobe then switch to steady output with one hand? No


Actually you can - while it is a bit tricky, you can switch it back from strobe to turbo one-handed (if holding in the traditional underhand flashlight carry way). Of course, you would have had to switch your hand position from the tactical overhand position used to turn on the light.



> If you are, for instance, on the secondary group and want to turn the flashlight on in the moonlight mode, is there anyway tactile way to figure out which mode you'll be in by turning the bezel? No


This one can be done easily (two-handed at least) - just twist the bezel a full 360 turn loose from tight, and the light will come on in Moonlight. Particularly easy to do if you have the clip installed, as it is a covenient landmark. You can actually pick any of the 4 levels quite easily by quarter-turns before illumination - although again, this is a two-handed task.


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## copperfox (Jul 22, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

gnef, do not feed the troll


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## DM51 (Jul 22, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

victory, you made your point. Repeating it will most likely be taken as trolling. Move on, please...


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## Flashlight_Bug (Jul 23, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



4sevens said:


> - max and special mode choice. with each set of modes, the first two would be the most likely used. ie max/strobe and high/medium. I would say these woudl meet 90% of tactical needs. In fact, most just use max and occasionally strobe. We've had this light tested with police departments and we adjusted according to their feedback. (btw we're working on outfitting some departments with the G5  ). the inclusion of the high, medium, low, moonlight was mainly for you cpf'ers  I considered not having those modes but eventually decided to include them - of course at my own peril - drawing more opinions and criticisms.


 
A great light at a great price. Just wondering. If the police departments are okay with using foreign-made lights, why must the military stick with Surefires? For that kind of size, capability and price, no Surefire even comes close.


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## recDNA (Jul 24, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



Flashlight_Bug said:


> A great light at a great price. Just wondering. If the police departments are okay with using foreign-made lights, why must the military stick with Surefires? For that kind of size, capability and price, no Surefire even comes close.



Military? Years of proven reliability and made in usa. I suspect many police depts use sf for the same reason. I bet the standard maglite might still be the one most commonly carried.


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## importculture (Jul 29, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

To me the new maelstrom g5 IS the next generation of flashlights. I believe it to be the first true next gen light. Although I do think the Nitecore IFE1 is a fantastic light I think the maelstrom just feels like new tech to me. I believe David did a fantastic job engineering and executing this light. I love the beam, it throws very well but has no rings despite using a smooth reflector. It also manages to have what I believe to be a more useful beam. Unlike Jetbeams RRT2 the maelstrom has a very useful spill right around the main beam. It seems like my RRT2 and 0 have a fantastic tight beam but both have voids around the main beam. Kind of gives you tunnel vision in some situations. Although the nitecore adopts this same beam pattern it uses it to a slightly less refined degree. But along with the very well designed beam the maelstrom also seems to manage to put out more light than my other 2cr powered lights. But the thing that really impressed me was how ingenious david was in working around surefires patented control ring. It just astounds me how he came up with such a great and simple solution while everyone else was going the conventional route. I just believe the maelstrom to be a wholly original light. I also have to give David a big thanks for putting in the other output levels including moonlight, which I would like to believe is a trademark of the 4sevens brand. I find moonlight invaluable and literally use it every night. I'm really glad David put in the engineering time and fit moonlight in there in spite of what the extra cost may have been. Not to mention none of the output levels appear to use PWM. Also and this is a huge plus for me, all output levels except medium comes on with no flash, delay, or hiccups of any kind on momentary or otherwise. That delay and pre flash was and still is the bane of my RRT0. By the same token the Nitecore also operates flawlessly in this same manner. Although the output never really wowed me. That and while the UI and control ring works well it does have some flaws that really stand out for me. I love that the control ring has a detent and does not spin freely continuously. I also love the ingenious positioning of the strobe function, and that it has a locked off position. I find it very useful and find myself leaving it clicked on and the ring turned to the off position at night. The major flaw for me is that moonlight mode is set immediately off to the side of the detent. It's so close in fact that most times I can't get it into moonlight and when I can it slips back into the off position. I find this terribly unfortunate because I've gotten so used to having moonlight mode that I can't live without it. I hope in it's follow up iteration it'll be rectified. But until then I'm glad to welcome the next truly next generation lights. Congratulation David on another fantastically engineered product.

I have to really thank David and the 4sevens team, my maelstrom was shipped the day I ordered it and in my hands a very thankful two days later.

Although this light was created with law enforcement in mind and with their input my family and friends in law enforcement and the military would have preferred turbo to be included with high med low moonlight. Their thinking was that moonlight is ideal for walking around the barracks on leave or bedside at night or in the patrol
Car to easily find it at a moments notice. Also law enforcement requires a lot of paperwork in the field and medium would be great for providing light for a witness or victim filling out their report. High would be used for approaching a vehicle and possibly searching the area surrounding it. Ideally turbo would be used to light up the rear of a vehicle at a stop and to illuminate the cars occupants to make sure they aren't searching for a weapon then switching to high as you approach the vehicle. Also the general consensus is that a detent of some kind at each position would be greatly appreciated. One last thing, my brother had the fantastic idea that it would be great if someone made a tip off diffusor that screwed in place of the strike bezel. That way it wouldn't make the head any more unweildly. 

I bought one for myself and am giving one to a close officer friend and one to my army MP brother to see how well they like it and possibly if it'd spark enough interest to get others they work with to buy more or if they'd be more interested in a revised model with turbo included in the main hi med low setting. Maybe if we can guarantee enough buyers David may find it financially viable to revise the g5. I for one can guarantee my willingess to put my money behind my opinion. I would definitely buy a few revised g5's. If it required a pre order I would pre pay for three with a possibility of buying more. I love this light and the 4sevens brand and I would love to see 4sevens become the brand surefire used to be.


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## Machete God (Jul 29, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



importculture said:


> ... for walking around the barracks on leave or bedside at night or in the patrol car to easily find it at a moments notice. Also law enforcement requires a lot of paperwork in the field and medium would be great for providing light for a witness or victim filling out their report. ...


I cannot speak for 4Sevens with any degree of authority whatsoever, but I believe the light was NOT designed for the uses you described above. 4Sevens briefly explains the design decisions behind the light in post #30 in this thread.

What the Maelstrom appears to be, first and foremost, is a light designed for situations which call for speed, aggression and surprise (e.g., takedowns, room clearing, hostage situations). I may be wrong about this, though :thinking: If I am wrong, or am speaking out of turn, I will gladly be corrected


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## recDNA (Jul 29, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

ANybody find a soft holster the G5 fits in?


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## carrot (Jul 29, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Have you looked at RipOffs?


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## SCpooh (Jul 31, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

would this work?

http://countycomm.com/holsterspecial.htm


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## importculture (Jul 31, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



Machete God said:


> I cannot speak for 4Sevens with any degree of authority whatsoever, but I believe the light was NOT designed for the uses you described above. 4Sevens briefly explains the design decisions behind the light in post #30 in this thread.
> 
> What the Maelstrom appears to be, first and foremost, is a light designed for situations which call for speed, aggression and surprise (e.g., takedowns, room clearing, hostage situations). I may be wrong about this, though :thinking: If I am wrong, or am speaking out of turn, I will gladly be corrected



I believe you are correct and I am aware of and read david's post about the purpose and thought process behind his creation of the g5. I was merely expressing the opinion of me and some of my family and friends. Some of which have been or still are in the room clearing business. It's just their opinion that they would prefer a light they could use in multiple situations especially in the military when weight is an issue and carrying multiple lights is not an appealing option. They as well as I commend the design of the g5 and express it so by purchasing a few of them. But our shared opinion is that the inclusion of turbo into the main output selection would not degrade the g5's effectiveness in a tactical situation. I love the g5 and will continue to promote and praise the g5 weather or not David decides to alter the light. Although I do have some friends that do not choose to purchase this light as it is. Which is their opinion and they are welcome to do as they choose. I do hope David can find it advantageous and profitable to either alter the existing g5 or release a less tactical g5 with turbo moved to the output selection ui for us less tactical people.


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## Machete God (Aug 1, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



importculture said:


> I believe you are correct and I am aware of and read david's post about the purpose and thought process behind his creation of the g5. I was merely expressing the opinion of me and some of my family and friends. Some of which have been or still are in the room clearing business. It's just their opinion that they would prefer a light they could use in multiple situations especially in the military when weight is an issue and carrying multiple lights is not an appealing option. They as well as I commend the design of the g5 and express it so by purchasing a few of them. But our shared opinion is that the inclusion of turbo into the main output selection would not degrade the g5's effectiveness in a tactical situation. I love the g5 and will continue to promote and praise the g5 weather or not David decides to alter the light. Although I do have some friends that do not choose to purchase this light as it is. Which is their opinion and they are welcome to do as they choose. I do hope David can find it advantageous and profitable to either alter the existing g5 or release a less tactical g5 with turbo moved to the output selection ui for us less tactical people.


I do see where you and your peeps are coming from, I hope you didn't take my initial response to your post as being patronising or anything, with me being new and all 

All things said, if I could change my light's UI I'd have Max in both sets, replacing High with Max


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## recDNA (Aug 1, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



carrot said:


> Have you looked at RipOffs?


 
How would I know if a particular one fit the G5? I see one that looks like it would fit but it has a metal clip. I don't want any hard parts. Just your standard ultra-cheapo soft holster with velcro closure would be great. I've gotten many over the years on cheapo flashlights but none are long enough.

SCpooh - no I want the holster to cover the lens so if I throw it in a backpack or a car console I don't have to worry about scratching the lens. You'll note that holster doesn't cover the lens.


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## sagatus (Aug 2, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



recDNA said:


> ANybody find a soft holster the G5 fits in?



I use a Maxpedition 5" flashlight sheath. With the grip ring attached, the fit is a little tight, but still doable one-handed. It takes a bit of coaxing to push the ring past the elastic compression bands on the sides. 

With the grip ring removed, it fits like a glove :thumbsup:

The switch sits just above the bottom of the sheath, but the head flares out just enough to prevent the switch from activating on the bottom. The flap is long enough to cover the head and still close securely.

I keep mine on the side of my Jumbo EDC pack, but it would work just as well on your belt.

http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/5-Flashlight-Sheath-9p199.htm


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## importculture (Aug 3, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



Machete God said:


> I do see where you and your peeps are coming from, I hope you didn't take my initial response to your post as being patronising or anything, with me being new and all
> 
> All things said, if I could change my light's UI I'd have Max in both sets, replacing High with Max



Don't worry about it, no offense taken. I know there are more than a few people who may have gotten the wrong idea from my post. It just allows me to clarify so there are no misunderstandings. And hey, That replacing high with max idea isn't bad. Or maybe having max in both sets of the UI is a great idea. I know it was mentioned in another post about someone being the type of person to use their lights on max, i am totally in that group and always carry spare CR's with me too. Hey, welcome to CPF by the way!


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## BolderDave (Aug 5, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Greetings All,

I'm very interested in the G5 as a full-time duty light. I have to admit I don't understand the UI configuration. I've been a police officer and law enforcement firearms instructor for over 15 years. I've never once used, or wanted, a strobe function on a duty flashlight. I would much prefer to have turbo, high, medium and moonlight together - bury the strobe, beacon, etc in the UI. 

Personally, I really like the idea of a moonlight mode on a light like this. Really low output is useful to program a packset/radio or do some other close-up work without giving away my position (too much) and not destroying my night vision. 

Turbo mode sounds great for outdoor searches - either people or objects. High to medium mode would most likely be the setting for most work - standard traffic stops, pedestrian contacts, etc. 

Frankly, it just sounds too cumbersome to switch modes. To bad, it looks like an awesome light and I really want one, but I don't think the UI would really work for me. :sigh:

Dave


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## recDNA (Aug 5, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

If you intend to use turbo and any of the lower outputs it is indeed very cumbersome.


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## BolderDave (Aug 5, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



recDNA said:


> If you intend to use turbo and any of the lower outputs it is indeed very cumbersome.


 
Yes, it sure sounds like it - it is a deal-breaker for me. It's a shame because everything else makes it a perfect tactical or duty light. 

Thanks, Dave


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## recDNA (Aug 5, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



BolderDave said:


> Yes, it sure sounds like it - it is a deal-breaker for me. It's a shame because everything else makes it a perfect tactical or duty light.
> 
> Thanks, Dave


Have you checked out the Malkoff Hound Dog?

I leave my G5 on turbo all the time so it isn't quite as bad for me. I use my little Mini 123 for low light.


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## BolderDave (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm on the email notification list! The MD3 
with two 18500's sounds great. Hopefully the wait won't be too long. I really like
the Malkoff products - this looks perfect for me.

Cheers, Dave


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## rickypanecatyl (Aug 7, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

I just got mine today and wanted to comment on the beam - they really did do an amazing job! On high (not turbo) it easily out throws my Eagletac TCO2. I love the efficiency of the R5 but hated the floodiness of them. The corona (Part of beam immidiately outside the hotspot? I know - I should know that with "flashaholic" after my name!) isn't as bright as the Eagletac which helps me _*SEE*_ better what I"ve got in the hotspot. 4sevens made this reflector redeem the R5 bulb! It's brillant... fantastic!!

I do agree with many here that it would be nice to have the turbo with the other modes. Letting us pick or adjust/setup to our own style,would make this a perfect light. Though not military, I am often in life or death situations and sometimes assist SF teams when they get in difficult situations. Personally I like having the easiest access to the highest possible setting (for sheer shock and awe) and low or moonlight for not giving away my position and/or not wrecking night vision. If I'm looking for something between those 2 modes its probably not an emergency and I can afford to fiddle with the light more. I personally can't imagine strobe being helpful in a tactical situation against trained fighters though maybe combined with an authoritative voice it helps local police intimidate punk teenagers?

FWIW's it is small enough to fit in Khakis or cargo pants.

I like the spacing of the modes. In practicality there is not nearly as big of a jump between Medium and high as the numbers make it seem. I personally can't imagine someone thinking "you know, medium just isn't bright enough, but high is just too bright!" in the real world. 

I don't own any flat tops so that probably explains why I don't feel that sympathetic to those who think that flat tops not working is a dealbreaker. It's not a inexpensive light -I would think those who can afford it could also get some button top 18650's if the reason for their complaint is they already have a bunch of flat tops. Don't want to offend anyone... just saying  I am grateful for the reverse polarity protection... I often have to change batteries in the dark.

*Summary:*
Pro's: Beamshape/reflector, throw, feel, balance, spacing of modes, fit adn finish, twist to change output
Con's: Turbo not in with the more "usable" ("usable" as defined by me and for me ) set of modes.

*Bottom, bottom line:* I think the beamshape/reflector/throw is not just good but amazing!!! You might find similar numbers in lumens,lux and even size w/ a XPG Dereelight DBS, but the DBS reflector was amazing and even seemed _made for_ the R2 led. It's doesn't seem _"made for"_ the XP G. The G5 on the other hand is the first reflector in my experience that actually feels *"made for"* the XPG led!


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## recDNA (Aug 9, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



selfbuilt said:


> Yeah, I've always like using the animated GIF approach (you'll see it on my tint round-up comparisons, available on my master list in my sig). But do check out the main 100-yard round-up comparison for even more shots.
> 
> The apheric A9 comparison is particularly amusing - you can see the square die-shape from the max focus.



Did you ever get to test a production model? Im curious how it does vs the houndog


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## selfbuilt (Aug 9, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



recDNA said:


> Did you ever get to test a production model? Im curious how it does vs the houndog


I have just received one. Give me a couple of days to get it tested, and I will post the results here.


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## recDNA (Aug 9, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



selfbuilt said:


> I have just received one. Give me a couple of days to get it tested, and I will post the results here.


 
Thanks! Hey - going to review a Houndog?


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## sfca (Aug 9, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



recDNA said:


> Thanks! Hey - going to review a Houndog?



Malkoff's lights are popular enough that I surmise he may not seek reviewers. You saw how fast the M61s sold out initially!


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## selfbuilt (Aug 9, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



sfca said:


> Malkoff's lights are popular enough that I surmise he may not seek reviewers. You saw how fast the M61s sold out initially!


Quite likely! And I am so swamped with invited reviews, that I don't have time to do loaners to personal purchase ones.

I'm afraid you will have have to stick with G5 for now ... but there's plenty of other interesting lights en route to me.


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## AardvarkSagus (Aug 10, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



selfbuilt said:


> Quite likely! And I am so swamped with invited reviews, that I don't have time to do loaners to personal purchase ones.


Definitely a good problem to have. It just goes to show the stock many people put in your opinions.


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## brightnorm (Aug 14, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*

My G5's beam on max is impressive, but there is a slight "donut hole" effect. Also, Pila flat-top 18650's work fine in my light.

Brightnorm


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## selfbuilt (Aug 14, 2010)

*UPDATE: The main review has been updated with the results of a SHIPPING version 4Sevens has sent me.* 

_Here's a summary of everything that has changed in the main review._

First, the packaging.







Packaging is distinctive – should look good on a store shelf.






Included inside is the light, good quality belt pouch/holster and wrist strap, manual, 2 4Sevens-branded CR123As, spare o-rings, tactical grip-ring replacement cover, and flat black bezel replacement cover.

The light looks and works exactly the same as the pre-release version, so I haven't updated any of the detailed build pics in the review.

*Beamshots*

Output has increased slightly on 1x18650 on the Shipping Version. I don't plan to re-take the white-wall beamshots, but I will include this new Shipping Version when I do my next batch of 100-yard beamshots.

*Throw and Output:*

Here is how the new Shipping Version compares to the original pre-release sample in my testing:






I will cut right to the chase – yes, max output on 18650 has increased compared to the pre-release sample. :thumbsup: However, max output on 2xRCR/CR123A has decreased relative to the pre-release version. :shrug:

Basically, all three battery options now give the same max output (which is intermediate to the various output levels of the pre-release version). Note that the differences are not huge – you would need a lightmeter to really see the difference.  I suspect many will consider this an improvement, as it means you can now expect equivalent initial output regardless of battery source.

For all "throwy" lights like the G5, throw measures at 1m are misleading (since the beam hasn't fully converged yet). I only report them in the tables to be consistent with the other lights that were measured at 1m. However, if you want to be more accurate, here are my measures at 5m:

G5 pre-release - 1x18650: 720 lux @5m (26.8 "throw") = *18,000 lux @1m estimated* (134 "throw")

G5 Shipping - 1x18650: 750 lux @5m (27.4 "throw") = *18,750 lux @1m estimated* (137 "throw")

Throw/Output Summary Comparison Chart - Updated with the Shipping version numbers.
















*Runtimes:*

To start, I imagine most people want to know how the new Shipping Version compares to the pre-release sample on Turbo, on all batteries. In the graphs below, the solid lines are the Shipping version, and the dotted lines are the pre-release version.






As discussed above, all three battery options now give roughly the same max output initially (which is intermediate to the various output levels of the pre-release version). But there are a few other differences - for example, Max 1x18650 on the Shipping version is now regulated for the first ~10-15mins of the run, before switching into direct drive. As a result, runtime on Max has of course decreased.

So how do all the output levels compare? I haven't redone all the runtimes, but here's a few examples on 1x18650. Again, the dotted line is the pre-release sample.






Basically, output is slightly lower on 1x18650 on the Moonlight/Lo/Med/Hi levels of my Shipping sample. The Hi mode also shows a runtime difference – the light is now fully regulated over the entire length of the run. On the pre-release version, the light dropped out of regulation and into direct-drive about half-way through the run. 

Although many here may prefer this new fully-regulated pattern on Hi, I would note that semi-regulated is typically more efficient, and the gradual drop-off was not perceptible to the naked eye anyway.

I haven't updated all the comparisons runtimes to other lights in the review - those are still the pre-release version. But as you can see in the graphs above, there's not a huge runtime difference except on 1x18650 on Turbo.

*Potential Issues:*

I noted originally that it was also easy to accidentally unscrew the front part of the head somewhat on the pre-release version (i.e. defocus the reflector) while switching modes. But as expected, that was just on the pre-release version (which was designed for easy access). The Shipping version is a lot stiffer, and this no longer happens accidentally.

*Preliminary Conclusion:*

So, to sum up - the revised charts and runtime graphs show that max output has indeed increased slightly on 1x18650 on the Shipping version compared to the pre-relase sample. However, max output on 2xRCR/CR123A has decreased slightly relative to the pre-release version. The charts and figures above tell the story in more detail.


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## Burgess (Aug 14, 2010)

Great work, SelfBuilt !

Thank you for this very thorough Update !

:twothumbs

_


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## frosty (Aug 15, 2010)

Wasn't the shipping version going to be another 50 lumens brighter? It certainly wasn't suppossed to be less.


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## dhouseng (Aug 16, 2010)

Doesn't look right.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 16, 2010)

Interesting, it is actually really less bright. Smaller difference between max mode on 18650 and CR123/RCR123 cells is probably due to the emitter with lower Vf.


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## selfbuilt (Aug 16, 2010)

jirik_cz said:


> Smaller difference between max mode on 18650 and CR123/RCR123 cells is probably due to the emitter with lower Vf.


Could be, at least in part. While the 2xRCR/CR123A differences could just be due to sample variation, it seems clear to me that drive levels have increased on 1x18650. 

This is evidenced by the high-output on 1x18650 (now directly matching 2xRCR/CR123A), the semi-regulated runtime (hard to see in the graph, but it now matches 2x sources for the first 10-15mins), and lower total runtime. Note that all my runtimes were done on the same batteries used in the original pre-release sample. These 18650 differences seem greater than I would expect for simple emitter variation among samples.

I recall that ti-force's original pre-release sample seemed to also have lower output on 1x18650 sources than 2xRCR/CR123A. Will be interesting to see what his shipping sample outputs look like.


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## Machete God (Aug 23, 2010)

Thanks for all the hard work you put into your reviews, selfbuilt. And especially for the updated run-time graphs in this one :twothumbs



Machete God said:


> ...
> All things said, if I could change my light's UI I'd have Max in both sets, replacing High with Max



After using the light every day for the past month or so, I would like to take back the comment above. I am now happy with the modes arrangement as it is. I realised that 3 hours of run-time in the very-bright High comes in quite handy, and the special set with Max/Turbo is there if I REALLY need it. Anyway, that's me, YMMV 



importculture said:


> Don't worry about it, no offense taken. I know there are more than a few people who may have gotten the wrong idea from my post. It just allows me to clarify so there are no misunderstandings. And hey, That replacing high with max idea isn't bad. Or maybe having max in both sets of the UI is a great idea. I know it was mentioned in another post about someone being the type of person to use their lights on max, i am totally in that group and always carry spare CR's with me too. Hey, welcome to CPF by the way!



It's always enlightening to hear viewpoints other than one's own or the manufacturer's, thanks for sharing yours  And thanks for the welcome, I believe you might be the first to welcome me :laughing:


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## brightnorm (Aug 23, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



BolderDave said:


> ...I've never once used, or wanted, a strobe function on a duty flashlight. I would much prefer to have turbo, high, medium and moonlight together - bury the strobe, beacon, etc in the UI...


You might find this discussion of strobe interesting
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/288471

Brightnorm


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## brightnorm (Aug 23, 2010)

selfbuilt said:


> *UPDATE: ...*Although many here may prefer this new fully-regulated pattern on Hi, I would note that semi-regulated is typically more efficient, and the gradual drop-off was not perceptible to the naked eye anyway...


Is there a reason why MAX isnt fully regulated? I believe that Fenix fully, or almost fully regulates MAX in many of their lights. For example, in your review of the TK12:
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/selfbuilt/2010/TK12-Hi18650.gif

Brightnorm


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## selfbuilt (Aug 25, 2010)

brightnorm said:


> Is there a reason why MAX isnt fully regulated? I believe that Fenix fully, or almost fully regulates MAX in many of their lights. For example, in your review of the TK12:
> http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/selfbuilt/2010/TK12-Hi18650.gif


As that graph (and the one in this review) show, the Fenix is actually the exception. Most multi-power, multi-level lights are direct-drive or only partially regulated on 18650 on Max.

I presume this has to do with the trade-offs in the design of the circuits. I've noticed that lights with a wide range of outputs - especially those with really low Los (like the G5) - are the least likely to be regulated on max on 18650.


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## WHT_GE8 (Aug 26, 2010)

Meh, not enough power, especially for that steep price. Nothing ground breaking... :duh2:


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## selfbuilt (Sep 7, 2010)

FYI, 4Sevens has confirmed that the latest batch of G5s includes the Max/Turbo mode on the regular sequence, and dispenses with the Lo mode. 

The revised sequences are thus:
Max, Strobe, SOS, Beacon
Max, High, Medium, Moonlight

Personally, I consider this an improvement (as recommended in my review).


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## PL4YED (Sep 16, 2010)

*Re: 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 Review (XP-G R5) - RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!*



Yavox said:


> G5 must be a truly powerful flashlight, since the tree in your backyard has vaporized between the beamshots


 



i cant stop laughing :lolsign:


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## adnj (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm glad that I bought the first production run. I find that low level pretty useful. But now I need to buy a second G5 just to try it out the new level selection. Thanks again for your reviews! :twothumbs



selfbuilt said:


> FYI, 4Sevens has confirmed that the latest batch of G5s includes the Max/Turbo mode on the regular sequence, and dispenses with the Lo mode.
> 
> The revised sequences are thus:
> Max, Strobe, SOS, Beacon
> ...


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## Machete God (Sep 17, 2010)

adnj said:


> I'm glad that I bought the first production run. I find that low level pretty useful. But now I need to buy a second G5 just to try it out the new level selection. Thanks again for your reviews! :twothumbs


 
I'm hoping to make a killing in the marketplace a few years from now with my Rare First-Generation 4Sevens Maelstrom G5 with 8 modes 

But if there's anyone interested, I'd be willing to part with it now for the right price... :naughty:


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## DOC 24V (Sep 17, 2010)

selfbuilt said:


> FYI, 4Sevens has confirmed that the latest batch of G5s includes the Max/Turbo mode on the regular sequence, and dispenses with the Lo mode.
> 
> The revised sequences are thus:
> Max, Strobe, SOS, Beacon
> ...


 
Thanks selfbuilt, your 100m beam shots are the basis for all of my flashlight purchases so far.lovecpf
This update to the ui has put me over the edge & will order a G5. Have any G5 owners came up with a presure swicth to fit?
Also any opinions on scope mount vs barrel mount for the G5 for rec hunting?


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## selfbuilt (Sep 19, 2010)

Just updated the main thread - I've added some additional lights to my 100-Yard Outdoor Beamshot Round-up, including the shipping version of the G5. Check out that round-up thread for more details. Here are a couple of a relevant animated GIF comparisons:


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## SCEMan (Sep 19, 2010)

Really great "real-world" beamshots that show just what I'm looking for. Much appreciated!


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## Dioni (Sep 20, 2010)

Yep, definitely I need it! 

Thanks for the review Self!


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## cburris72 (Sep 22, 2010)

Man that light looks sweet. I just watched NutNFancy review of 4Seven on youtube. Was super impressed with the founder that NutN interviewed during shot show 2010. I'll have to seriously consider one of these lights for my collection. Thanks for posting.


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## stallion2 (Oct 1, 2010)

i just received mine today and can tell that its gonna get a lot of use....definitely added to my 'go-to' collection. the only thing that bugs me is that the hotspot has a dark center. my Quark and Quark Turbo both have this but i never thought it was significant enough to matter...ie/can't see it in the field. the Maelstrom i received has a far more prevalent dark center in the hotspot. i won't know its affects in the field until tonight but have a feeling it will show. has anyone found measures that can alleviate this? i'm wondering if it'll help to bore open the reflector opening a little to give the emitted light more clearance. i have a lot of XP-G lights and lamps and the 47's are the only ones that have a dark spot. any suggestions at all?


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## Machete God (Oct 2, 2010)

stallion2 said:


> i just received mine today and can tell that its gonna get a lot of use....definitely added to my 'go-to' collection. the only thing that bugs me is that the hotspot has a dark center. my Quark and Quark Turbo both have this but i never thought it was significant enough to matter...ie/can't see it in the field. the Maelstrom i received has a far more prevalent dark center in the hotspot. i won't know its affects in the field until tonight but have a feeling it will show. has anyone found measures that can alleviate this? i'm wondering if it'll help to bore open the reflector opening a little to give the emitted light more clearance. i have a lot of XP-G lights and lamps and the 47's are the only ones that have a dark spot. any suggestions at all?



You've probably already found out by now that the dark center that shows up during near-range white wall hunting is a non-issue


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## stallion2 (Oct 4, 2010)

Machete God said:


> You've probably already found out by now that the dark center that shows up during near-range white wall hunting is a non-issue


 
well, yeah. like i said, i have the same issue w/ my turbo and tactical quarks but its a non-issue, especially in the field. its a lot more pronounced w/ this G5 to the point where i can shine it at the woods from any distance and see the shaded center. i'm definitely gonna keep the light but just wondered if anyone has had any success w/ correcting this on their own.:shrug:


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## Machete God (Oct 4, 2010)

stallion2 said:


> well, yeah. like i said, i have the same issue w/ my turbo and tactical quarks but its a non-issue, especially in the field. its a lot more pronounced w/ this G5 to the point where i can shine it at the woods from any distance and see the shaded center. i'm definitely gonna keep the light but just wondered if anyone has had any success w/ correcting this on their own.:shrug:


I guess it may be an issue if you can see a darker center at distance. It appears that the second generation of Maelstrom's have inconsistencies in beam quality from one light to another. My initial response was based on personal experience. Mine is a first-gen Maelstrom - I can see a slightly darker center on a white wall at 1 metre, but none whatsoever at any distance further out.


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## selfbuilt (Oct 4, 2010)

Machete God said:


> I guess it may be an issue if you can see a darker center at distance. It appears that the second generation of Maelstrom's have inconsistencies in beam quality from one light to another. My initial response was based on personal experience. Mine is a first-gen Maelstrom - I can see a slightly darker center on a white wall at 1 metre, but none whatsoever at any distance further out.


Interesting thread. 

As a general rule, all XP-G lights can show signs of the dreaded "donut" effect (i.e. relatively dark centre with brighter periphery of the hotspot). That's why I normally recommend OP reflectors for XP-G lights, as it can help smooth those out (e.g. see the comparison SMO and OP reflectors on my T20C2-II review). Of course, that would defeat the purpose of a thrower light, like the G5.

Both my G5 engineering sample and first generation G5 shipping sample had no sign of the dark centre. Sorry to hear recent shipping samples have had issues. You could try unscrewing the bezel/reflector assembly from the rest of the head to see if it helps (but I think the shipping G5s may be threadlocked). If you really find it distracting at a distance, then I recommend you contact your dealer to see about a replacement.


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## Kevin1322 (Oct 6, 2010)

Well, l got my G5 today. No question it's a high quality light and l love the versitility it brings with the moon mode to high mode plus the other three flashing modes. It will definetly be a light that travels with me. :twothumbs
It's interesting to me, that though by specs and comparison to other lights I have (M20 Warrior and SF L2 for example) it's not really that much bigger, but it feels and looks much bigger. :shrug: Definetly not one l would pocket. 
I read a comment earlier where someone said the difference between high and max was hardly noticable, man they weren't kidding. Makes me wonder what the actual output of the two modes really is. I was thinking that 200 OTF lumens for most things would be good, then to be able to jump to 350 OTF lumens when l needed more would be great, but it just isn't so. :sigh: 
Does anybody have or know of someone who has tested the outputs to see what they really are? Nothing against 4Sevens, l know they are a quality and reputiple company, but these outputs just don't seem to add up. l certainly could be wrong though as l'm just using my eye and don't have equipment to measure it.


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## rickypanecatyl (Oct 7, 2010)

I bet you could see the difference between 200 & 350 lumens IF you could compare them back to back. It's almost comical when you think about it though...if you're looking at the 350 high to be able to compare it to the 200 output you first have to strobe yourself 4X! That in itself disqualifies you from comparing beam brightness.



Kevin1322 said:


> Well, l got my G5 today. No question it's a high quality light and l love the versitility it brings with the moon mode to high mode plus the other three flashing modes. It will definetly be a light that travels with me. :twothumbs
> It's interesting to me, that though by specs and comparison to other lights I have (M20 Warrior and SF L2 for example) it's not really that much bigger, but it feels and looks much bigger. :shrug: Definetly not one l would pocket.
> I read a comment earlier where someone said the difference between high and max was hardly noticable, man they weren't kidding. Makes me wonder what the actual output of the two modes really is. I was thinking that 200 OTF lumens for most things would be good, then to be able to jump to 350 OTF lumens when l needed more would be great, but it just isn't so. :sigh:
> Does anybody have or know of someone who has tested the outputs to see what they really are? Nothing against 4Sevens, l know they are a quality and reputiple company, but these outputs just don't seem to add up. l certainly could be wrong though as l'm just using my eye and don't have equipment to measure it.


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## selfbuilt (Oct 7, 2010)

rickypanecatyl said:


> I bet you could see the difference between 200 & 350 lumens IF you could compare them back to back. It's almost comical when you think about it though...if you're looking at the 350 high to be able to compare it to the 200 output you first have to strobe yourself 4X! That in itself disqualifies you from comparing beam brightness.


Actually, the currently shipping G5 lights have a revised interface where Turbo is on the main sequence. The lights now proceed as Moonlight - Med- Hi - Turbo (i.e. Lo is gone). So no more strobing needed to get to Turbo.

You should be able to see the difference Kevin - but it is not as great you might expect. I don't have a calibrated setup to measure lumens, but I would estimate Turbo is only ~50% brighter than Hi (i.e. not 75% as suggested by the reported lumen values). That's certainly enough to see the difference, but it is not that huge.

As a general rule of thumb, you would need something like ~4x the output to appear as twice as bright by eye. An extra ~0.5x the brightness will be noticeable, but not hugely so.


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## Kevin1322 (Oct 7, 2010)

selfbuilt said:


> Actually, the currently shipping G5 lights have a revised interface where Turbo is on the main sequence. The lights now proceed as Moonlight - Med- Hi - Turbo (i.e. Lo is gone). So no more strobing needed to get to Turbo.
> 
> You should be able to see the difference Kevin - but it is not as great you might expect. I don't have a calibrated setup to measure lumens, but I would estimate Turbo is only ~50% brighter than Hi (i.e. not 75% as suggested by the reported lumen values). That's certainly enough to see the difference, but it is not that huge.
> 
> As a general rule of thumb, you would need something like ~4x the output to appear as twice as bright by eye. An extra ~0.5x the brightness will be noticeable, but not hugely so.


You are right, l do have the new version so Hi is next to Max, so easy to compare. I've read that that it takes much more difference in output to see a difference with your eye and that the eye just can't actually gauge it. Never the less, it still seems like you should be able to see more of a difference. Thanks for your expertiece though. I still have a lot to learn, haha. Do you have this light or have you seen the level difference first hand?


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## selfbuilt (Oct 7, 2010)

Kevin1322 said:


> Do you have this light or have you seen the level difference first hand?


I don't have the new version with Turbo on the same level as Hi (which would greatly facilitate comparisons).

However, I can generally tell if my light was left in Hi or Turbo when activating from off. The difference is noticeable enough that I can be pretty confident in guessing what mode I'm in (although I may get fooled, depending on ambient lighting conditions).

Of course, I'm used to staring at a lot of lights ...


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## Kevin1322 (Oct 7, 2010)

selfbuilt said:


> I don't have the new version with Turbo on the same level as Hi (which would greatly facilitate comparisons).
> 
> However, I can generally tell if my light was left in Hi or Turbo when activating from off. The difference is noticeable enough that I can be pretty confident in guessing what mode I'm in (although I may get fooled, depending on ambient lighting conditions).
> 
> Of course, I'm used to staring at a lot of lights ...


Yes, I do believe you are, haha. Thanks again for the info.


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## Machete God (Oct 13, 2010)

I am able to tell the difference between High and Max, even after strobing myself 4 times :laughing: It doesn't register as a 75% difference to my eyes though, more like a 10%.

Regarding the comments (and discussion, in the linked thread) about the dark centers in the hotspot of the beam, I paid close attention to my beam the next time I used my light, and lo and behold, there was indeed a darker center on mine ("darker" relative to the edges of the hotspot, it is still pretty darn bright there). So, based on my anecdotal evidence, the first-generation Maelstroms are also "afflicted" with the same "flaw". It never bothered me though, and I never noticed it until reading all the comments and complaints about it. Perhaps it's because I am new to flashlights, or because I am not as skilled a white wall hunter or beam observer as some of you


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## TITANER (Oct 13, 2010)

Good job :thumbsup:,thanks for you helpful Review.The pics of Dereelight DBS V2 looks very beautiful


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## Kevin1322 (Nov 2, 2010)

Kevin1322 said:


> Well, l got my G5 today. No question it's a high quality light and l love the versitility it brings with the moon mode to high mode plus the other three flashing modes. It will definetly be a light that travels with me. :twothumbs
> It's interesting to me, that though by specs and comparison to other lights I have (M20 Warrior and SF L2 for example) it's not really that much bigger, but it feels and looks much bigger. :shrug: Definetly not one l would pocket.
> I read a comment earlier where someone said the difference between high and max was hardly noticable, man they weren't kidding. Makes me wonder what the actual output of the two modes really is. I was thinking that 200 OTF lumens for most things would be good, then to be able to jump to 350 OTF lumens when l needed more would be great, but it just isn't so. :sigh:
> Does anybody have or know of someone who has tested the outputs to see what they really are? Nothing against 4Sevens, l know they are a quality and reputiple company, but these outputs just don't seem to add up. l certainly could be wrong though as l'm just using my eye and don't have equipment to measure it.


Well, I lied. :shakehead After three weeks of deliberating, I sent it back. I just found that I didn't use it or carry it, and I couldn't see spending that kind of money on a back up light (plus finances are low). I got an EagleTac T20C2 MKII instead and am really happy with the decision.


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## selfbuilt (Mar 10, 2011)

> Written by *Sparrow74* on 11-03-2010 01:25 PM GMT
> 
> Thx for the review - waiting for the S2





> Written by *offthetrail* on 11-09-2010 04:07 PM GMT
> 
> Will you re-test with the new LOP reflector when it is available? I think it will help to soften the mild dark spot and may produce a little more flood but still have excellent throw.





> Written by *selfbuilt* on 11-10-2010 08:38 AM GMT
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Written by *jwhite8086* on 11-26-2010 02:21 AM GMT
> 
> Hi I just recieved a G5 S2, i been reading thease forums alot but never posted.
> 
> ...





> Written by *rickypanecatyl* on 11-28-2010 04:15 PM GMT
> 
> Selfbuilt I just read your review of the lumintop TD15 and was curious on your lux #'s. You have the lumintop at 16,750 @ 1m or just shy of the G5 here. However, in the lumintop review you list the G5's lux at only about 12,350 lux. Are the numbers different? Did the G5 loose a ton of throw? Is the Lumintop really that much better of a thrower?





> Written by *VF1Jskull1* on 11-29-2010 10:16 AM GMT
> 
> ^^
> 
> From what I read from Selfbuilt's reviews, I think it was different due to the "ANSI" standards that was used. I could be wrong....





> Written by *selfbuilt* on 11-29-2010 04:42 PM GMT
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Written by *The Fred* on 11-30-2010 08:18 AM GMT
> 
> Unbelievable!!!! Found the graphs and all that info very handy. Cheers!!





> Written by *RBH* on 12-01-2010 09:01 PM GMT
> 
> Should the four contact points in the head be lubricated. If so what would you use.
> 
> Thanks





> Written by *NightCacher* on 12-07-2010 07:38 PM GMT
> 
> Newbe here, nice post. Waiting formy G5 to arrive soon, excited yeh, but after reading the recent posts I hope my money was well spent. Still deciding what battery to use , found a 3000mAH 18650. sounds like alot of capacity and the 1500mAH lithium CR123 primaries have along runtime to if I read the graphs right. Any input would be welcomed.
> 
> I also have the quark aa2 and it is a nice EDC.





> Written by *VF1Jskull1* on 12-08-2010 11:58 AM GMT
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Written by *VF1Jskull1* on 12-08-2010 11:59 AM GMT
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Written by *jhc37013* on 12-16-2010 12:55 AM GMT
> 
> Got my G5 S2 yesterday and was pleasantly surprised by the extremely white tint and the lack of and major donut hole. The tint is as white as any XR-E I own it kind of reminds me of the tint from my Eagletac's that sport the XP-E R2. I'm extremely happy that their is little to no donut hole I guess I hit the lottery with more than just the tint.


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## selfbuilt (Mar 10, 2011)

The thread discussions have been partially restored from the search engine cache data (thank you tandem!). 

The thread discussions for the last few months have been *fully restored* from the search engine cache data (thank you tandem!).

Please carry on!


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## Native89 (Apr 14, 2011)

Very nice review selfbuilt. It's what eventually convinced me to buy one (R5-2nd Gen) this past December.

Love everything about the light. Yes, I noticed the donut hole and I honestly didn't mind it in real world use. Fast forward a couple of months though, and the light is still going strong, but I just decided to buy it some goodies. Specifically the LOP reflector and I must say that it has changed the light for the better. Donut-hole is now gone and the hotspot is a lot more useable while still retaining most if not all of the throwing power.

As I bought this light to compliment my Quark AA^2 as the thrower it surprises me that I enjoy it even more that it has more flood. Can't wait till it's dark out to see how it holds up outdoors though I have a feeling I won't be dissapointed.


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## CQ73 (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks for this great review, selfbuilt!

Looking at the "beam distance to .25 lux" chart from your thread on the Thrunight Scorpion V2 with the turbo head, it looks like that flashlight only goes about 50 yards further than this one despite having nearly double the light output. I guess the Maelstrom G5 has a reflector that gives a tighter beam?


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## selfbuilt (Jun 18, 2011)

CQ73 said:


> Looking at the "beam distance to .25 lux" chart from your thread on the Thrunight Scorpion V2 with the turbo head, it looks like that flashlight only goes about 50 yards further than this one despite having nearly double the light output. I guess the Maelstrom G5 has a reflector that gives a tighter beam?


In part, but it's really the the difference in emitters. The G5 uses the much smaller XP-G emitter. The Scorpion (and 4Sevens X7, for a closer comparable) use the much larger XM-L. Larger die emitters have lower surface brightness over their areas, making it harder to focus them to a point (i.e. a small point source is much easier to focus).


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## RBH (Oct 21, 2012)

The G5 can now be had for $65. Considering the 10 year warranty, how do they stack up to current lights of similar form factor ?

Bruce


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## selfbuilt (Oct 21, 2012)

RBH said:


> The G5 can now be had for $65. Considering the 10 year warranty, how do they stack up to current lights of similar form factor ?


It holds up reasonably well. Check out the runtimes in some of my more recent XP-G reviews to see how it compares to some more recent lights.


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## RBH (Oct 21, 2012)

Hi selfbuilt

The price with discount and free shipping is actually just under $59. Do you have a personal favorite at that price point and of similar form factor ? I would like to use an 18650 battery.

Thanks again




selfbuilt said:


> It holds up reasonably well. Check out the runtimes in some of my more recent XP-G reviews to see how it compares to some more recent lights.


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## selfbuilt (Oct 23, 2012)

RBH said:


> The price with discount and free shipping is actually just under $59. Do you have a personal favorite at that price point and of similar form factor ? I would like to use an 18650 battery.


It's a good thrower, and I like the simple head-twist interface (very intuitive for people). Seems like a good bargain at that price.


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## RBH (Oct 23, 2012)

Thanks for your opinion.

Bruce



selfbuilt said:


> It's a good thrower, and I like the simple head-twist interface (very intuitive for people). Seems like a good bargain at that price.


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## lawnman (Apr 13, 2013)

As I read more of these they are a terrific help...Thanks again


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