# Do you like infinite variable output or preset modes?



## dealgrabber2002 (Aug 26, 2011)

*POLL ADDED: Do you like infinite variable output or preset modes?*

At first I thought I would like infinite variable output so I purchased the D10. Then I found out I like to know how much runtime on each mode. That's pretty hard to determine on an infinite variable output light. It might look like 20 lumen but it could be 30 lumen because IIRC our eyes can't really tell the difference, but that actually reduces the runtime. So I sold it. I am now only getting preset mode because I know how much runtime I can get per battery on each mode; plus or minus some. *THANKS SELFBUILT*. It's the comfort of knowing.

Does any one have the condition I have?

- OR -

If you still love infinite variable output, let me know how you determine runtime assuming you don't carry spare because quite frankly I don't carry spares. My job does not require me to carry a light or spares, I just like flashlights. If your method actually works, I might change my view and get another D10.

Edit: Poll added.


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## Burgess (Aug 26, 2011)

I feel the same way as you.

Always wanna' know *How Long* it'll run at "*this*" level.

:thumbsup:


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## TooManyGizmos (Aug 26, 2011)

~

Both ............................................. each has it's purpose .

~


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## bansuri (Aug 26, 2011)

I was on the fence regarding variable, since I got my HDS Rotary I'm sold on it. Fortunately it allows preset or variable if I had to be mindful of runtimes. It can switch between a preset and the rotary knob so I could check if I was near a level that I knew the runtime for. 
The Rotary makes it easy to dial in the least amount of light required for the task so my battery life is pretty good.


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## Flying Turtle (Aug 26, 2011)

This is one of the many reasons I so like LiteFlux. Both options available.

Geoff


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## rickypanecatyl (Aug 26, 2011)

I prefer well positioned presets. There is no such thing as infinitely variable. I find "IV" often means lots and lots of choices that look about the same in a range I wasn't interested in! 

In addition to knowing the run time what good presets do is make your pupils do the fine tuning and are pupils are closer to infinitely variable. 

I understand modes being close together for the sake of more runtime at a similar output. When it comes to how many lumens is too little or too much for a particular task though I 've found multiples of 5-10X pretty good. IE if 70 lumens is too bright to read a book (and it is!) then 10 wont be too little for me. If 10 is too bright and hurting your eyes 1.5 wont be too little. 
Having presets makes my eyes do the work ... and they do a better job than most IV UIs


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## jh333233 (Aug 26, 2011)

I prefer IV, my point is
-Do not have to cycle between modes to desired one
-Able to adjust the level while the lights are off
-Limited number of preset modes, sometime you need the 1 in between 2 preset modes
-Improved utilize of forward clicky, no accidental mode change
-Simpler UI than preset modes, dont have to memorize the order of levels
-Looks cooler, while others are using preset
-Smoother operation


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## Tesla (Aug 26, 2011)

Agree w/jh333233 on all counts.....no need to "program" a light level. I'm not all that concerned about battery usage. That's what they're for. That's like worrying about ammo usage in your gun...that's what you got it for...


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## swan (Aug 26, 2011)

Both, as long as it has a control ring ui.


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## kramer5150 (Aug 26, 2011)

I only have one variable output light, a DX 1-100% ramping module hosted in a Solarforce L2.

Its not a deal breaker either way for me.


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## derfyled (Aug 26, 2011)

I often find myself using more light that I really need with IV. It seems like I adapt my needs to the preset selected when I use a fixed preset light, while I always put a lot more light than what I really need with the IV, like I do with a dimmer in my house lightning. Do you always set the minimum level needed in your living room? Not me... Also, the runtime is my main concern with IV, I don't know what values I'm using.


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## BadBulb4U (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm starting to lean toward an infinite variable output flashlight. My first such light was a Sunwayman V10R Ti and it just amazed me. I have a few single cell CR123A non-variable flashlights and I do like them, but you are stuck with whatever presets they have. I always thought that I was wasting battery power cycling thru different setting. There is no such waste using my V10R Ti. I can also adjust the light to the situtation and that saves battery life. I rarely time my flashlight usage. If I leave the house on foot, I will have a 2 cell CR123A (or 18650) flashlight and a single cell CR123A in my pocket and a AAA Fenix LD01 (never swapped out) on my keychain. Any vechicle I drive or pedal has spare batteries and several flashlights. (Here is an idea, we need small timers on our lights for the battery). When I walk the dog at night, there are areas that are pitch black, unless the moon is out, and there are areas where there is a streetlight or porchlight. I can easily change the output of the light for the current condition, this allows me to conserve the battery. If I want to get a good look at something, I can blast it without the head twists or switch pushing, which is helpful when one hand is holding the dog's leash. I bought a Sunwayman V20C after liking the V10R Ti so much, because I wanted a high output 2 cell or 18650 cell flashlight with variable output. There may be other flashlights that I would like just as much as the V20C, but I think Sunwayman has aquired a new loyal customer. I just love the butter smooth variable switch. In fact, a Sunwayman V10R (the aluminum model) is on its way to me right now. Don't get me wrong, I will still buy lights without a variable switch, but they will have to be special in some way. :thumbsup:


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## geckoblink (Aug 26, 2011)

dealgrabber2002 said:


> At first I thought I would like infinite variable output so I purchased the D10. Then I found out I like to know how much runtime on each mode. That's pretty hard to determine on an infinite variable output light. I might look like 20 lumen but it could be 30 lumen because IIRC our eyes can't really tell the difference, but that actually reduces the runtime. So I sold it. I am now only getting preset mode because I know how much runtime I can get per battery on each mode; plus or minus some. *THANKS SELFBUILT*. It's the comfort of knowing.
> 
> Does any one have the condition I have?


Unless you test your unit yourself, you'll never really know until you need it . . . :devil:

(Seriously, though, thanks, Selfbuilt. (Check out them commas!))





dealgrabber2002 said:


> If you still love infinite variable output, let me know how you determine runtime assuming you don't carry spare because quite frankly I don't carry spares. My job does not require me to carry a light or spares, I just like flashlights. If your method actually works, I might change my view and get another D10.


I test runtime on lowest and highest output. The lowest output runtime is the most important to know, but with those two data points you can guess at runtime for anything inbetween. Typically if you're concerned with runtime you use the lowest setting. Checking around the house, poking around the garage, or heading to the bathroom don't require 1000 lumens.





(Edit: I would add that unless you run your batteries all the way down in one session, you're going to end up guessing the runtime anyway. There is zero chance I can accurately tracking runtime usage across multiple lights over multiple days. And what if I use a light on high for ten minutes and low for fifteen? What's the remaining juice at?)


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## Swedpat (Aug 26, 2011)

I prefer preset modes. That's because I don't want to need to guesstimate the brightness and runtime.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Aug 26, 2011)

derfyled said:


> Also, the runtime is my main concern with IV, I don't know what values I'm using.



Exactly my thought. 

I know there are lights that you can program, but you really don't know what lumen it's on when you stopped and set it. Sure you can eyeball it, but runtime differ from 10-15 lumen and our eyeball can't tell them apart. At least preset was set by the manufacturer with let us know how many lumen and the runtime for that setting. 

Some said but what if you need a brightness that is between 1st mode (10 lumen) and 2nd mode (30 lumen), but what can a 15 lumen do that a 10 lumen cannot and what can a 20-25 lumen do that a 30 lumen cannot?

Phew Burgess... I thought I was alone!


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## jh333233 (Aug 26, 2011)

Just wonder why must you know the output and the runtime,
lumen is just a number and runtime just varies as different batteries
even though the light may be rated at XX lumens for YY minutes
We wont even know how this relationship comes,
Which brand of battery? Capacity? Temperature? New battery? Calculation method?
Afterall, the runtime isnt really a problem unless you are really short on battery
Trust yourself rather than the manufacter
Comfortable to eyes is FAR more important than messing with lumen


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## Serial Chiller (Aug 26, 2011)

When battery life is crucial, what more can I do than dimming down the light to the lowest acceptable level? The batteries are empty, whenever the light goes off. Even with preset modes there is absolutely no excact estimation of the remaining runtime, without bringing a notepad, a stopwatch and a calculator. Sure, you can't tell the difference between 120 and 150 Lumens. But can you tell the difference between 120 and 150 minutes? In a real-life situation, all you can say is that the light will be on for a longer time if you use a lower setting. That's it.

With an IV light I can always choose the right setting. Just take a 500lm XM-L light. If you want to keep the UI simple, more than 3-4 settings are probably too much. If you take 5lm for the lower end and 500lm for maximum, you have 1-2 modes left to divide this 495lm-gap. That is not enough. There are plenty of situations, where 5lm is too little but 100lm is a waste of energy.

The biggest problem I see with IV lights that use an adjustment-ring, is the high power consumption on lower levels, that is drasticly reducing the runtime.


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## duro (Aug 26, 2011)

All lights should have about 4 variable user preset modes. That would be totally awsome.


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## RCantor (Aug 26, 2011)

To me the whole point of IV is to dial down the lumens to the minimum you need. Then you benefit from longer runtimes than if you had just the factory presets. I don't know of any lights that offer 30 and 10 Lm. Mine typically go 600/200/50. Maybe that's why we feel differently about IV.


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## regulator (Aug 26, 2011)

I like both. But I agree that I like knowing the runtime I can expect at a certain level. If a light has 4 good levels and has an efficient driver - that is more important to me than variable level. 

I have a Nitecore IFE2 with infinite control ring and it is great to adjust to exactly the light you need. But at times it bugs me not knowing how much power it is using that I would know with a fixed level light.

Btw There is a big difference in the usability between infinitely variable lights and lights with a control ring for output adjustment. I have a D10 and it is no where near as friendly to use as a variable control ring light like the IFE2.


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## kelmo (Aug 26, 2011)

The point is moot. If you know how much runtime per setting you will get how do you keep track of the runtime? That is the problem with all long running LED lights that run under regulation. You don't know how much time you have left in the cell(s). Regardless if it is a set output or a variable drive.


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## DIΩDΣ (Aug 27, 2011)

kelmo said:


> The point is moot. If you know how much runtime per setting you will get how do you keep track of the runtime? That is the problem with all long running LED lights that run under regulation. You don't know how much time you have left in the cell(s). Regardless if it is a set output or a variable drive.


 
I dont quite follow. If your in a situation where runtime is critical I think it would help. For example lets say you get lost or something on a hiking trip in the mountains and your trying to get back to civilization. Lets say you've got a ZL H51 on your head with a 2000mAh eneloop. The lowest you could safely navigate rough terrain is med1 (30 lumens) and ZL rates it at 9hrs. You have one fresh eneloop in your pocket that your Lacross or Maha said was charged to 2000mAh. So if you turned it on at 9pm to try and hike out overnight you'll know it should last until 6am, when the sun comes up. Thats pretty straight forward. Lets say your further in the bush and it will take severak days to get out. If you limited your light usage to say 2hrs a night, then you would know each batterey would be good for 4.5 nights. If it were that critical you could accurately track your on time just using the stopwatch feature on your watch or phone. If you were using IV and set it around 45 lumen (you wouldnt know its exactly 45) you would cut a considerable amount of time (50%) and could leave you stranded in the dark in the mountains. Playing devils advocate its also possible that you might have set it around 20 lumens which could help your run time too, depending on the efficiency (did someone say IV on low power isnt as efficient?). Thats an extreme case, but just something that comes to mind.



RCantor said:


> To me the whole point of IV is to dial down the lumens to the minimum you need. Then you benefit from longer runtimes than if you had just the factory presets. I don't know of any lights that offer 30 and 10 Lm. Mine typically go 600/200/50. Maybe that's why we feel differently about IV.


Plenty run down that low, or lower, down into <1 lumen (moonlight mode).

Once you start getting over say 500 lumens though, maybe the IV would be better since that is such a range. 

I think either would be ok, dual would be cool too. I think the bigger deal is the interface, and if using a preset light then the proper spaced levels.


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## warmurf (Aug 27, 2011)

I've got 2- a VARAPOWER2000 and a custom built 6 x XML by Vestureofblood. Love em both. Very useful as you can crank it up or pull it down within a second. Very useful with high powered lights as well, as these 2 are 2200 & 4000+ lumens a piece.


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## gcbryan (Aug 27, 2011)

I tend to like a light where I can control the output so initially I though IV was the way to go. Now I preset (for the reasons already mentioned) as long as the presets are well thought out.

The only lights I have where the levels are well thought out to the extent that IV would be unnecessary are my Zebralights. I like the UI on them.

I have several lights with IV in the form of ramping and that's better than have poorly thought out presets but it's slower and I don't know what output it really is.

I don't have a IV ring controlled light. I do have a dive light with magnetic ring control for 3 levels. I like that for that application.

Really it's hard to beat Zebralights UI with 3 settings and then double click in each of those setting for a total of 6 settings. Most levels are 3 times greater than the previous which is what it takes for a noticeable difference. You also need a great range including low levels.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Aug 27, 2011)

warmurf said:


> I've got 2- a VARAPOWER2000 and a custom built 6 x XML by Vestureofblood. Love em both. Very useful as you can crank it up or pull it down within a second. Very useful with high powered lights as well, as these 2 are 2200 & 4000+ lumens a piece.







jh333233 said:


> Just wonder why must you know the output and the runtime,
> lumen is just a number and runtime just varies as different batteries
> even though the light may be rated at XX lumens for YY minutes
> We wont even know how this relationship comes,
> ...



Yes, the brand of battery, capacity, temperature, etc does make a different in determining runtime, but if I used the same battery next time (I mark my eneloops), I know it gives me roughly the same like last time. But on the same battery, if I change the setting on my IV lights and I am not sure I can get back to the same setting as before; therefore my runtime may vary a lot.


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## jhc37013 (Aug 27, 2011)

I've had problems with control rings moving in my pocket always getting a slightly different output when I pull it out of my pocket. I sold my HDS Rotary to buy the 200T Clicky because of this problem.

However I recently bought a couple iTP SC series light's from a gun show and had fun with the IV and thought I'd give IV another serious consideration so this week I got a IFE2 and I should have the new Jetbeam RRT21 today.

Again just carrying it for a couple days I notice the control ring moves while the light is clipped in my pocket, maybe it moves as I pull out the light or while I clip it in idk but I don't like having to be that careful. Having said that IV control ring is really a lot of fun and I plan to carry the IFE2 in rotation, maybe I should holster carry a light with a control ring but I like pocket carry, I'll get my RRT21 today and see how it goes.


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## adnj (Aug 27, 2011)

I like a variable for EDC. But for a work light, I always go preset.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Aug 27, 2011)

adnj said:


> But for a work light, I always go preset.


 
Why?


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## leon2245 (Aug 27, 2011)

I guess preset modes could let one know how much runtime is actually left, if only using one mode exclusively per battery swap, or by keeping some sort of log that documents how many minutes each mode has run for, then calculating what's left after the combined levels' usage time etc. ThoughI can't/don't bother to keep up with runtime even with _single_ mode lights!

I lean toward preset, just to get a better idea of efficiency on medium modes (often I.V. lights just publish max & min specs). Then the only possible advantage after the purchasing decision is if the first preset mode is the one I use most often, & that's only if the I.V.'s aren't the selector ring + independent on/off switch style that you can leave on your preferred setting. Otherwise with low to medium modes anyway I.V. might allow one to compensate as the battery drains & just keep dialing up to maintain a more consistent output than preset modes. Guess I don't need it (would make an exception if s.f. fixed the T1A), so my real preference is Preset: single mode.


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## Napalm (Aug 27, 2011)

Variable if it's done via magnetic ring.

If it's done via "ramping" then I'd rather have preset, please.

Nap.


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## BBL (Aug 27, 2011)

Preset level: I get what i want, instantly.
Variable levels: I have to mess around until i found the level i want.

So, presets for me please.


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## AaronG (Aug 27, 2011)

Variable ring is awesome. I would take a ramping light but the ring is better. As for the runtime, I'm never sure about how much time I've used on a cell anyway so it really doesn't matter. I've got a backup light on my keys and spare cells when I'm in a situation where my primary light has to work.


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## jh333233 (Aug 27, 2011)

BBL said:


> Preset level: I get what i want, instantly.
> Variable levels: I have to mess around until i found the level i want.
> 
> So, presets for me please.


 Youve messed up with em, its in reverse, you have to mess with preset level before you get the one you want
while infinite variable, simply twist the mag ring to ramp up or down


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## Joe Talmadge (Aug 27, 2011)

I find I can make due with either, *my decision point is the UI.* The UI that many preset lights use -- click (or turn) to a certain level (either hard-coded or memory-set), then off-on within a certain time to change levels -- that plain doesn't work for me and the way I use lights, so the considerable number of lights that use such a UI aren't on my radar.

But once I get a UI that works for me, I don't much care. I do love my first variable, the Sunwayman, but I'd buy a preset light in a heartbeat if I liked it. Regarding the general arguments one or the other, I find myself not all that finicky. I don't care if the preset level doesn't match *exactly* the amount of light I need, get me anywhere close and I'm happy, so that's not a huge argument for variable for me. And I don't keep mental track of how much time at each level, especially now that I've mostly moved to rechargeables, so that's not an argument for presets for me.


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## wuyeah (Aug 27, 2011)

i always got this fear that infinite variable light or even multiple level selection light will break down easier than two stage light due to its complication and additional separated selection ring construction.
I don't data to prove two stage light actually last longer.


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## h_nu (Aug 27, 2011)

The concept sounded good but in actual practice the ramp on my D10 was so quick that I have reverted to only using it in minimum and maximum modes. The selector ring method might someday draw me in if I see enough good reviews and praises. Maybe 3 or 4 fixed levels and runtime charts would draw me in. For now, I'll stick with fixed modes.


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## Derek Dean (Aug 27, 2011)

Joe Talmadge said:


> I find I can make due with either, *my decision point is the UI.* The UI that many preset lights use -- click (or turn) to a certain level (either hard-coded or memory-set), then off-on within a certain time to change levels -- that plain doesn't work for me and the way I use lights, so the considerable number of lights that use such a UI aren't on my radar.
> 
> But once I get a UI that works for me, I don't much care. I do love my first variable, the Sunwayman, but I'd buy a preset light in a heartbeat if I liked it. Regarding the general arguments one or the other, I find myself not all that finicky. I don't care if the preset level doesn't match *exactly* the amount of light I need, get me anywhere close and I'm happy, so that's not a huge argument for variable for me. And I don't keep mental track of how much time at each level, especially now that I've mostly moved to rechargeables, so that's not an argument for presets for me.


Joe sums up my feelings on the subject pretty well. The UI is the critical point. 

I don't like ramping UIs, most of them go to quickly for precise adjustment, but I do like the magnetic control ring on my NiteCore IFE2 exactly because it does allow for smooth and precise adjustment. 

My favorite light is my NovaTac 120P, which lets me set all 4 levels to any of 22 known light levels. This allowed me to setup the light with the levels I wanted, and now that I have it set I generally don't change it, so I know my runtime on each level.

Of course remaining runtime wouldn't be so much of an issue if more manufacturer's would simply include a meter of some sort like I have on my AAA MJP Extreme.

And yes, the new HDS rotary seems to give the best of both worlds, allowing both quick and easy rotary control AND quick and easy preset access. Very cool!


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## Southpawtact (Aug 27, 2011)

I prefer preset levels in order to estimate runtimes.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Aug 27, 2011)

I like both, but for different reasons.

The infinitely variable light really does let you tweak the brightness just for you task, but I do find I tend to let it rise higher than intended thus reducing battery life. Even though my V10R Ti goes really low, I find that I change the batteries more often than in my RaClicky.

With a preset mode you get some reassurance or exactly what what you get with each level and approximately how long each level runs for.


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## BigBonus (Aug 27, 2011)

I‘ve got an infinite varable one. But honestly speaking I prefer preset modes. The attraction point is that preset modes makes me fell some kind of tempo when touching it. tick-tack I got light, and tick-tack changed to hightlight and back again. Would you agree with me that the switch also sounds awesome?
When I use IV light I can't find the tempo anymore. Its convenient supply lumens but nothing else than preset ones.


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## 276 (Aug 27, 2011)

I love them both but sometimes find it hard to find a really good infinite variable control ring light,the really good ones are Surefire, Peak or varpower 2000. Most of the other ones i have run into you cant get it down to a really low output.


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## recDNA (Aug 27, 2011)

Infinite adjustment wheel is the best ui ever devised. Detentes to remind you of levels while you turn are a good idea so then u have the best of both worlds. The best part is knowing what level it is in before turning it on.


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## Track Terror (Aug 27, 2011)

I have way to many lights that I use at different times for different things so there is no chance I am going to actually pay attention to how many minutes I have used a light and at what level it was on for what amount of time so the "amount of battery left" does not even register as a reason to buy for me. 

Ever since buying my first variable the preset lights end up feeling like old technology to me. You never seem to have exactly the light you want. After having the option of choosing the exact amount of light YOU want I have become spoiled and it seems with factory selected amounts you either don't have quite enough light for the task or way too much and you're thinking of the battery getting drained way faster than need be the whole time.

I know people use lights for tons of different reasons than I do but I can't see myself going back to factory preset levels, I would much rather choose the amount for the task at hand.

There's no reason that with the next generation of lights there could easily be a battery level indicator available at minimal costs. Even the cheapest of phones have had that basic feature.


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## Lou Minescence (Aug 27, 2011)

The variable control ring with infinite brightness is my choice. Preset modes are ok, but I hate having to cycle through the modes to get to the one I want.
As far as keeping track of runtime, plan on 1 hour per a cell. 1 CR123 is an hour. 1 18650 is 2 cells =2 hours. Dim the light and you will do better on runtime. Carry an extra light. 2 is 1 and one is...not enough.


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## BBL (Aug 28, 2011)

jh333233 said:


> Youve messed up with em, its in reverse, you have to mess with preset level before you get the one you want
> while infinite variable, simply twist the mag ring to ramp up or down



I usually know what level i want. E.g. Steep alpine trail, roots, rocks, etc. -> 60lm. Thats click-hold-release on my novatac. 
And thats a situation where i dont want to concentrate on my light, rather have the other hand free for more important things.

Another situation: Indoor, pitch black dark, eyes night-adapted, i dont want to blind anyone -> tripple-click -> 0.3lm

Or this one: Entering from daylight into a dark area. I known once my eyes are night adapted, i need 10-20lm -> short click. No need to continuosly change light output as my eyes adapt to darkness.


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## Napalm (Aug 28, 2011)

Southpawtact said:


> I prefer preset levels in order to estimate runtimes.


 
Mhh let's think magnetic ring flashlights & rechargeable batteries. 

When you can recharge your batteries after each use, it doesn't matter that much if you're able to tell how much charge was left in them. 

If you're in such situation that you need to extend runtime as much as possible, the ring allows you to easily dial exactly as much light as you actually need, nothing less, nothing more. Which means you get the longest possible runtime for your application (which seems more useful than getting a preset, known, but probably shorter runtime).

And if you're really really serious about it nothing stops you to stick a tape around the ring that you mark with runtime gradations (that you can experimentally determine).

Nap.


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## jh333233 (Aug 28, 2011)

BBL said:


> I usually know what level i want. E.g. Steep alpine trail, roots, rocks, etc. -> 60lm. Thats click-hold-release on my novatac.
> And thats a situation where i dont want to concentrate on my light, rather have the other hand free for more important things.
> 
> Another situation: Indoor, pitch black dark, eyes night-adapted, i dont want to blind anyone -> tripple-click -> 0.3lm
> ...


 
Twist the ring to lowest before activating the light and slowly ramp it up, my preset lights had the brightest mode in the first mode( which i hate)


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## flashlight nut (Aug 28, 2011)

My 2 cents. I think presets are a must for tactical purposes since we all would pick a light with proven overall reliability. When I pull my light out I need to know exactly what level the light will come on at, and for me it's high. I need to light the area immediately and then scale down from there if necessary. Also these infinite variable adjustment rings haven't proven there durability yet as far as I'm concerned. For utility purposes I find IV to be unbeatable for dialing up exactly how much light you need for the situation. That being said, like most of you, I carry multiple lights, much to the weird looks and comments from family and friends. With my latest purchase of the SF Titan, this winter you can expect a Titan around my neck, HDS 170T(Cn) on my belt, Jetbeam TCR2 clipped inside my front pocket and a Fenix LD01 SS and an extra CR123 battery on my keys. I think I have all possible senarios covered. This does not include the lights in my truck and various gear bags. Just for the record, CPF did this to me.
If I could only grab one light, it would be the HDS 170T(Cn). Rock solid constuction and UI. The light I believe would be the last one standing in extreme conditions.


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## Cheapskate (Aug 28, 2011)

I think the magnetic control ring on my Sunwayman V10A is as good as it gets in a UI.

I can determine whether the light comes on at minimum, maximum or anything in between. I really have to wonder at people who say it takes too long to select the level you want. it takes me a fraction of a second.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Aug 28, 2011)

Cheapskate said:


> I think the magnetic control ring on my Sunwayman V10A is as good as it gets in a UI.
> 
> I can determine whether the light comes on at minimum, maximum or anything in between. I really have to wonder at people who say it takes too long to select the level you want. it takes me a fraction of a second.


 
I totally agree with you and do wonder about the comments from the people with tactical requirements who knock the Infinite Ring. At the very least you will know that it's at full low or full Hi (with full Hi being the requirement for most with tactical needs). If you start from full low you just go up until you have the light you need.


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## flashlight nut (Aug 28, 2011)

Actually the concept is pretty simple. Some of us are in professions or circumstances that require instant access to bright light while our attention is directed elsewhere. A UI is need that when you grab your light and click the button you rely on a specific amount of light. I hear too many stories where the ring turns while in the pocket or otherwise. In high stress situations fine motor skills and some simple thought process are the first to go. A IV ring is just another distraction that you might not have the luxury of a second or two to deal with. I wonder about people who can't grasp this concept. Must be nice to never have to worry about such things.


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## wrencher (Aug 28, 2011)

I just wanted to relate and experience I had. I was on a service call earlier this year
(I'm a mechanic on construction equipment) it was early still dark out. I was looking 
for an oil leak. It had rained during the nite. Dropped my HDS 170Cn in mud. It took 
me 10-20 seconds digging around in muddy water to fined it. Poured water bottle over 
it and back to work. I know this is extreme but it did happen. I don't how the ring controlled 
Light would fair in these conditions. 

wrencher


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## Lou Minescence (Aug 28, 2011)

I have a Sunwayman V10A on a neck lanyard most of the time and the control ring does not move from where last set. I also have an RRT 21 for a few days carried in a loose fitting front pants pocket all day as a mechanic. It has not switched it's control ring setting yet. I thought most cops and soldiers carried their light on a duty belt in a holster. Is a control ring more likely to change adjustment on a duty belt ?
The key like for me is getting to the mode I want without cycling through all the others to get there. The variable control ring is great. Maybe it will switch modes when I wear my tight jeans and carry the light in my front pocket. TBD...........


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## flashlight nut (Aug 28, 2011)

It is probably not anymore likely to turn in a holster than in pockets or around the neck. The operative word is "probably". There are post from users who have had their ring move from casual carry. Police officers and soldiers (for that matter anyone who trains for violent encounters) might have to deploy a light during or after a violent encounter, foot pursuit, climbing over and under obstacles; where the chances of the ring rotating are now greater especially if the light is in their hand at the time. We need a piece of equipment with a K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) UI. Deploying a light and inadvertently having it come on in moonlight mode instead of high could have dire consequences. As I said before, even simple thought processes can become comprimised. For example, an officer who has a firearm malfunction who keeps trying to pull the trigger instead of performing a clearing procedure that he/she has done hundreds of times in training. Something as simple as adjusting an IV ring may not be so simple during high stress situations. It is just something else that can go wrong. Remember Murphy's Law. I do not want to turn this thread into a discussion that will get it closed down and I will heed to any warning by an administrator. I just wanted to point out that different people have different needs from their flashlights and it shouldn't be the subject of remarks by others who don't live with or understand those circumstances. I would be happy to discuss this further in a more appropriate forum if invited to.


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## Lou Minescence (Aug 28, 2011)

As a person who only recently owned a variable light, I never new what I was missing until I owned one. Most people read these posts trying to understand points of view and to gather info on what might be the right light for them from others. I have noticed most all my family members and friends who are millitary and police, use surefire single mode incandescent. A couple surefire led lights and Streamlights. They swear by them. No variable or multiple modes at all out of the bunch.


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## Cheapskate (Aug 28, 2011)

flashlight nut said:


> We need a piece of equipment with a K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) UI. Deploying a light and inadvertently having it come on in moonlight mode instead of high could have dire consequences.


 
So what are you doing in this thread?

True KISS implies single mode - on/off. This thread is clearly concerned with multi-mode lights which your own arguments rule out for your own needs. I understand your concerns and needs and respect them, but they don't apply to me.


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## flashlight nut (Aug 28, 2011)

I was just giving my opinion on the pro's and con's to each interface how it pertains to me, just like everyone else is doing on this thread. Since it made you "wonder" about people like me and my opinion I thought I would explain it. Even though I do carry a single mode flashlight on duty I still carry my other flashlights either as a back up (only the HDS 170T) or off duty, as I explained in my original post. Just because my circumstances don't apply to you they might apply to other people contributing to this thread. I see many other threads on here for people to post their lights with guns or knives so I take that to mean people do use flashlights in conjunction with other "items" for personnal protection. I think it is important for everyone to know their equipment along with it's weaknesses and strenghts, even if it pertains to the UI of a flashlight. I don't exclude multi-mode lights for these applications, I just prefer pre-set modes instead of an IV interface. Again, that is my opinion and that is all I was trying to interject.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Aug 28, 2011)

I had a D10 ramping version; after doing the shortcut for min/high, I can get close to what I had before but I strongly doubt it was the exact setting. I never had a magnetic control ring light before, can you get the exact setting after it's been accidentally changed?


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## Nicrod (Aug 28, 2011)

I enjoy both really. I love my ramping d10and ex10. Then I got a d10 with presets and I noticed it was a nice change 
From the ramping versions. So now it really boils down to what I'm feeling. I guess the ramping allows more fine tuning
But presets (for me) is simpler. Besides I usually always have a spare so runtime is not an issue for me. 

If I had to choose only one: it would be ramping. 

Nick


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## ZMZ67 (Aug 29, 2011)

I like both but would choose preset modes over variable output.My Quark has enough modes to cover my needs and I have a reasonable idea of the runtime should I get caught in an emergency where I need to conserve the battery.


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## jhc37013 (Aug 29, 2011)

Cheapskate said:


> So what are you doing in this thread?
> 
> True KISS implies single mode - on/off. This thread is clearly concerned with multi-mode lights which your own arguments rule out for your own needs. I understand your concerns and needs and respect them, but they don't apply to me.



The title of this threads ask do you like IV or preset, neither is also a answer (single mode) and everyone's opinion should be welcomed . flashlight nut makes some good points and I to have been in more than one occupation where my life may depend on my light, and it did more than once. I'm one of the members who's control rings always move and I wear 5.11 pants and I'm as careful as possible but they still move, I still EDC those light's but if I was still in those other occupations I wouldn't because it's just not worth it.


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## longboat (Aug 29, 2011)

For me, the ideal light would have four or five levels, each selectable BEFORE you turn the light on, via a control ring with substantial detents and GITD markings as well as tactile markings to let you select the level prior to turning on.

The levels would be:
1. - 0.3 - for sneaking around the house at night
2. - 3 - for camping, low-light reading/work, etc.
3. - 30 - for all-round general use
4. - 300 - for checking around the yard, woods, etc.
5. - Turbo-Blind (optional) - for whatever level 4 can't handle... :devil:

Beam would be good mix of throw/flood. OTOH, the mfr. could offer the light with choice of full flood, full throw, or combination. Best of both worlds would be an emitter at each end of the battery tube, one designed for flood and the other designed for throw. 

Build the light in several sizes for those who want AAA, AA, CR123 or D, 1x and 2x for each model.

However, such a flashlight would take away 90% of sales from other flashlight mfrs., so probably would not be allowed to be built.


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## tony22 (Aug 29, 2011)

longboat said:


> For me, the ideal light would have four or five levels, each selectable BEFORE you turn the light on, via a control ring with substantial detents and GITD markings as well as tactile markings to let you select the level prior to turning on.
> 
> The levels would be:
> 1. - 0.3 - for sneaking around the house at night
> ...


 
longboat, I like it! I'd go with one head, though. My additions would be a foward clicky on the back so you could get momentary on wherever the detent ring was set, and the turbo-blind/seizure strobe would also be selectable from the rear button via a double click/long hold or something like that (overriding whatever the ring was set to). Oh, and a flat bottom for stand up use. And maybe a slightly scalloped bezel.


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## Sub_Umbra (Aug 29, 2011)

I prefer user programmable preset modes. With infinite adjustment, if you are using it in a dim mode and go brighter for a few seconds it is practically impossible to feel your way back down to the same setting because it will look dimmer when returning from brighter.

With positive steps programmed in place I can 'go up two clicks' for brighter and when I'm done it is very simple to return to my exact dimmer by just 'going back down two clicks.' For me that beats inching my output up slightly each time I return to dimmer from brighter. 

Henry at HDS wrote a great white paper on this subject.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Aug 30, 2011)

Longboat,

Those are some nice spacing levels.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Aug 30, 2011)

flashlight nut - you have very strong feelings towards one type of light function in your profession. For your particular needs an IR is obviously not the ideal solution for you needs, but at the same time a light with multiple spaced levels may or may not also fill your needs depending on the UI (such as the light which always comes on low and has to be clicked through to get to High). Personally I feel the UI on the HDS lights makes it too complicated for me to always be able to hit the exact light level every time I turn if off (w/ preset turned off that is).

My flashlight needs are nowhere close to yours. I am a casual user with minimal flashlight requirements on a job w/ none of them being tactical. For the most part I prefer to start my lights on low and build up to the level I need. Although I do enjoy the IR of my V10R, the sequential knob settings on my Spy007 allow me to tailor 6 specific light levels and I can quickly spin through all of them. Clicky UIs present the most complicted usage when there are different click sequences to get to different levels. I am really enjoying my TK35 and TK21 with both power button and level changes buttons - this may be one of the most ideal clicky UIs for me.

I think Malkoff tailors their P60 drop-ins towards the tactical single level need, which is fine but just not for me.


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## aceo07 (Aug 30, 2011)

I've tried IV on my LiteFlux. I found it hard to use since it ramps up or down, and you have to interrupt it at the right point. I'm sure IV with rings is much easier.

However, I like the presets on my HDS. As others have said, presets are great for getting a good idea of estimated runtime. I can go out and not have to worry about running out of power if I know what level I'm at. Using IV it might not be possible to get back to the same output (except max/min), so the runtime might be less.. or more.


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## flashlight nut (Aug 30, 2011)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> flashlight nut - you have very strong feelings towards one type of light function in your profession. For your particular needs an IR is obviously not the ideal solution for you needs, but at the same time a light with multiple spaced levels may or may not also fill your needs depending on the UI (such as the light which always comes on low and has to be clicked through to get to High). Personally I feel the UI on the HDS lights makes it too complicated for me to always be able to hit the exact light level every time I turn if off (w/ preset turned off that is).
> 
> My flashlight needs are nowhere close to yours. I am a casual user with minimal flashlight requirements on a job w/ none of them being tactical. For the most part I prefer to start my lights on low and build up to the level I need. Although I do enjoy the IR of my V10R, the sequential knob settings on my Spy007 allow me to tailor 6 specific light levels and I can quickly spin through all of them. Clicky UIs present the most complicted usage when there are different click sequences to get to different levels. I am really enjoying my TK35 and TK21 with both power button and level changes buttons - this may be one of the most ideal clicky UIs for me.
> 
> I think Malkoff tailors their P60 drop-ins towards the tactical single level need, which is fine but just not for me.



I actually have become addicted to flashlights, beyond professional use, like most of the CPF members. I have and EDC different lights with different UIs. To me HDS is great because it can be as simple as click/on...click/off and not worrying about double or triple clicking to cycle through different light levels unless you purposely do so. That is why it is always with me. I also like using the IV ring for general use because it's great to dial up the exact amount of light needed. There are so many great lights I can't just stick to one. I respect everyone's opinion here on CPF. I have learned a lot from all of you. Mostly, though, I am happy to find a place where people can relate to me. You wouldn't believe the wierd comments I get from family and friends. Oh, wait, you do!!


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## DaveT (Aug 30, 2011)

I think it depends on the light and its uses. I've been a huge fan of the Photon Freedom and its UI....for a keychain light, I think it's wonderful. I have two Nitecore D10s - one with ramping, one with presets. I find I carry the one with presets more than the ramping version. I think "infinitely adjustable" is very desirable as a concept, but in practical usage, I don't usually want to juggle through a bunch of minutely different settings. 

I used to have a Novatac 120P, and I think that may be closest to perfect. A number of user-selected preset levels available through an easily remembered set of clicks. I don't recall if this was an option - perhaps add the ability to ramp up from minimum and down from maximum a la the Photon Freedom. And finally, a flashlight that can automatically step itself down one brightness level at a time as the battery strength drops.


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## tony22 (Aug 30, 2011)

dealgrabber2002 said:


> Tony22,
> 
> Those are some nice spacing levels.



longboat is the man! He came up with them.


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## Providence (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm totally agree with you
that's why i prefer PD20 than EX11


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## dealgrabber2002 (Sep 1, 2011)

dealgrabber2002 said:


> I had a D10 ramping version; after doing the shortcut for min/high, I can get close to what I had before but I strongly doubt it was the exact setting. I never had a magnetic control ring light before, can you get the exact setting after it's been accidentally changed?



Anyone has the answer to this?


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## Cataract (Sep 1, 2011)

I prefer IV through a control ring for everyday situations: 

exact amount of light needed every time (_possibly_ more runtime than preset in the same situationS) and I can change the output while it's off.


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## lightseeker2009 (Sep 1, 2011)

longboat said:


> For me, the ideal light would have four or five levels, each selectable BEFORE you turn the light on, via a control ring with substantial detents and GITD markings as well as tactile markings to let you select the level prior to turning on.
> 
> The levels would be:
> 1. - 0.3 - for sneaking around the house at night
> ...


 
I have to agree that this makes sense. I have a Fenix TA21 which has 9 different levels. Its lowest level is 4 lumens which I feel is too much. If you are waken up and you put it on at just 4 lumens, it is too much light for the first few seconds for my eyes. I would have liked a minimum of 1 lumens.

But too be fair, I'm sure I would have prefered this light to have a infinite variable output over preset modes. I just must get the V60C!! That light would replace the TA21 to be the light on my bedside table


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## Serial Chiller (Sep 1, 2011)

I like the infinitely variable output of my iTP C8. So I bought an RRT-21 as a replacement and I thought the magnetic ring was the perfect solution. Unfortunately, it does not work like I thought it would, so the RRT-21 went back to the dealer. Right now, I'm looking for a light with preset modes and a <10lm low since the whole magnetic-ring-thing doesn't seem fully developed yet. I stand by my earlier opinion, that this is the perfect UI, but it has not yet been successfully implemented. It needs a logarithmic scale and longer runtime on the lowest setting.


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## jhc37013 (Sep 2, 2011)

Serial Chiller said:


> I like the infinitely variable output of my iTP C8. So I bought an RRT-21 as a replacement and I thought the magnetic ring was the perfect solution. Unfortunately, it does not work like I thought it would, so the RRT-21 went back to the dealer. Right now, I'm looking for a light with preset modes and a <10lm low since the whole magnetic-ring-thing doesn't seem fully developed yet. I stand by my earlier opinion, that this is the perfect UI, but it has not yet been successfully implemented. It needs a logarithmic scale and longer runtime on the lowest setting.



You mentioned in RR21 thread that you don't like the low of RRT21 and how you have to dial them in and even though it really does not bother me I know what you mean, have you tried a Nitecore IFE2? The IFE2 has a broader range of outputs especially in the lower outputs and are easy to dial in even from standby, the ring on the IFE2 has nearly 360 degree of rotation.


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## Bigmac_79 (Sep 2, 2011)

I've got a V20C, and it is by far my favorite UI. It's true that I don't know exactly what my runtime will be, but I do know that it will be the maximum possible. My practice is to turn the light to the minimum brightness required for whatever task I'm doing. This isn't possible with preset levels, I just have to pick from whatever levels are available.

To qualify, like previous posters have said, the ideal UI is operated by a control ring. My favorite feature of the V20C is that at any time I can adjust the light to be either brighter or dimmer, without switching through any number of modes. If my light is on medium, I don't want to go through high to get to low, or vice versa. A control ring is really the best way I've seen to achieve the ability to go up or down in brightness at will, and what I look for most in a UI is how long it will take me to get to the level I want, and if I'll have to go through levels I don't want.

So, I would pick a light with preset levels on a control ring before I would pick a similar light with infinite variability by tailcap-button ramping. I don't own a light with infinite variability by a button, but my intuition is that it would take longer to get to the level I want than with preset modes by a button. My preferences are thus:

1. Infinitely variable with control ring
2. Presets with control ring
3. Presets with button
3. Infinitely variable with button


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## leon2245 (Sep 2, 2011)

lightseeker2009 said:


> longboat said:
> 
> 
> > (.3/3/30/300)
> ...





longboat said:


> For me, the ideal light would have four or five levels, each selectable BEFORE you turn the light on, via a control ring with substantial detents and GITD markings as well as tactile markings to let you select the level prior to turning on.
> The levels would be:
> 1. - 0.3 - for sneaking around the house at night
> 2. - 3 - for camping, low-light reading/work, etc.
> ...





Tony22 said:


> dealgrabber said:
> 
> 
> > Tony22,
> ...


 

Absolutely perfect. I hereby declare Longboat's .3/3/30/300 setup The Golden Distribution of level spacing. Now to get the powers that be on board: we start by staging an intervention for the guy with no name.


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## tony22 (Sep 2, 2011)

leon2245 said:


> Absolutely perfect. I hereby declare Longboat's .3/3/30/300 setup The Golden Distribution of level spacing. Now to get the powers that be on board: we start by staging an intervention for the guy with no name.


 
Hey, I came up with the additional clicky features!


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## dealgrabber2002 (Sep 2, 2011)

I also like the preset mode from Zebralight like the sc51. I think it cover all the bases. the lumen spacing is very good.


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## LedTed (Sep 2, 2011)

The NiteCore D11.2 has both variable and preset modes ... and now a clip!


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## compasillo (Sep 2, 2011)

Flying Turtle said:


> This is one of the many reasons I so like LiteFlux. Both options available.
> 
> Geoff


 
Wich I suscribe 100%


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## StandardBattery (Sep 2, 2011)

dealgrabber2002 said:


> At first I thought I would like infinite variable output so I purchased the D10. Then I found out I like to know how much runtime on each mode. That's pretty hard to determine on an infinite variable output light. I might look like 20 lumen but it could be 30 lumen because IIRC our eyes can't really tell the difference, but that actually reduces the runtime. So I sold it. I am now only getting preset mode because I know how much runtime I can get per battery on each mode; plus or minus some. *THANKS SELFBUILT*. It's the comfort of knowing.
> 
> Does any one have the condition I have?
> 
> ...


 
I felt the same way until I tried the Sunwayman V10R... now I think it can be great... highly recommend that light. It works well on the HDS Rotary as well, but that one has both features and I use the fixed output more. I like the variable on the V10R more, but that is partly because of the overall design of the light. Still my main EDC of a fixed output level the ZebraLight SC60W because it's just the best light all round for me right now. Often the I have the V10R-Ti with me as well.


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## Wrecked (Sep 4, 2011)

I really like variable lights. I was at the drive-in tonight and needed just a bit of light (so I didn't bother other people). I just dialed my v10a to the lowest setting before turning it on and then after turning it on I dialed in exactly what I needed. 

I don't like lights that require clicking through several modes to get to the right one. What a pain. Also my memory isn't the best so remembering how each light works is a problem too. I'm also not a fan of ramping lights as they're hard to control. The variable ring seems to be the ticket for me. 

I'm in the process of picking a 2AA light for my car. The IFD2 is really nice but pricey. The Sunwayman V20a is another option I'm considering. don't actually need another light but who cares......:naughty:


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## dealgrabber2002 (Sep 16, 2011)

Which light is the lease expensive with control ring?


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## dosei-45 (Sep 16, 2011)

Variable is nice if controlled by a calibrated ring with markings giving you a very good idea of the lumens. I like the idea of being able to leave it set at "photon cannon", but with a quick twist of a ring have it down at "candle light" before I even turn it on.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Sep 16, 2011)

dosei-45 said:


> Variable is nice if controlled by a calibrated ring with markings giving you a very good idea of the lumens. I like the idea of being able to leave it set at "photon cannon", but with a quick twist of a ring have it down at "candle light" before I even turn it on.


 
But if the light has marking;then it won't be infinite.


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## dosei-45 (Sep 16, 2011)

dealgrabber2002 said:


> But if the light has marking;then it won't be infinite.


 
What are you talking about? Do you not understand the concept of a calibrated ring with markings at say .1, 10, 50, 100, 200, 400, MAX...thus allowing the light to be infinately variable between .1 lumens and Max output, yet allows you to set the light at settings where you will know with a far bit of certainty what the output is and thus what the runtime will be? So long as the ring does not rotate more than 360 degrees (1 full rotation) the ring and body can have calibrated hash marks to give the user a very good idea what the actual output is.


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## steve328 (Sep 16, 2011)

I have an HDS Rotary that is my favorite light. I really like being able to twist the ring and turn on the level I want ( usually max or low ). Can also hit three other presets with a couple of clicks. I carry on a small belt holster and haven't had a problem with the variable ring turning. I also have a Zebralight SC51 that I use around the house and I love the UI on it. It can start on any level I want and switch to another level with a couple of clicks. I work in Corrections and I carry a Nitecore Extreme at work ( comes on high, twist head for preset low, strobe easy to get to ). I understand why people become attached to a particular UI and wouldn't try to change anyone's mind. If we all liked the same UI, there would be a lot less lights to choose from. This forum has severely dented my billfold.


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## Tiggercat (Sep 16, 2011)

I like well-spaced presets, but I _love_ the variable ramping on the Sunwayman V series. Might need to talk myself into a JetBeam RRT-0 as well.


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## shao.fu.tzer (Sep 16, 2011)

It depends on the UI... I like twisties with QTC for infinitely variable output... certain lights like the Neutron series have their modes spaced out enough that I don't really care if I can dial in an output inbetween them... On my VR10 Ti, I love the ring... I was missing the old HDS/Novatac UI so I bought a brand new Special Ops and Storm recently for $45 for the pair! SCORE! I carried and HDS back in the day for so long that the UI comes naturally to me... I programmed them a few times, but was usually happy with the standard levels...

Infinitely variable is also a subjective term... it gets tossed around a lot for lights that ramp up and down in brightness, but only actually have maybe only 10-15 levels... I generally like my light to come on in high all the time with some feature to easily switch it to come on in moonlight/firefly mode...


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## dealgrabber2002 (Sep 16, 2011)

dosei-45 said:


> Do you not understand the concept of a calibrated ring with markings.


 
Sorry, no. I never had a light like that. That is why I was uncleared of what you mean by marking.


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## jinx626 (Feb 8, 2012)

I like pre-set modes. It keeps thing simple for me. Too low, go to next, still low, go to high.


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## budynabuick (Feb 9, 2012)

tony22 said:


> Hey, I came up with the additional clicky features!




Duly noted! lol

Keith


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## Danielight (Feb 9, 2012)

I have a *ShiningBeam I-mini XP-G Neutral White Tactical* with Digital Infinite Brightness Adjustment. The UI is simple to use, and it does save your last setting, which is nice if you don't need to change it very often. However, I think I really prefer the preset brightness settings, simply because it allows you more precise landing-points.


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## GarageBoy (Feb 9, 2012)

DOUBLE


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## GarageBoy (Feb 9, 2012)

The ring/Surefire T1A way of doing things is awesome
I'd like to know how much runtime I'd be getting, though...(my solution is to carry another battery, but still, if I knew that by going down a few lumens, I'd get lots more runtime, I'd like to know...)
Too bad the runtimes on the Infinitely Variable lights (well, the Sunwayman) are poor relative to the lights with fixed levels


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## reppans (Feb 9, 2012)

I'd like to get a IV ring light, but unfortunately, most of the current magnetic rings have an overhead electrical draw that tends to kill the low lumen runtimes. It's probably not material in relation to the higher lumens, but I use my lights on moonlight and single digit lumens most of the time and it looks like you lose 50-75% of the runtimes at those levels.

For me, IV will have to wait until the technology improves.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Feb 11, 2012)

reppans said:


> I'd like to get a IV ring light, but unfortunately, most of the current magnetic rings have an overhead electrical draw that tends to kill the low lumen runtimes.



Hm, didn't know that.


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## Monocrom (Feb 13, 2012)

I prefer preset modes. It's not as though anyone ever requires a specific lumen setting for a specific task.


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## AlphaZen (Feb 13, 2012)

The problem with presets is that it is hard to find a light with the exact presets you like. I like having the whole range of options available to me, but like to set them as presets. So, for me, the best compromise is a programmable light, like the LF2XT, where you can program presets to your liking.


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## Gaffle (Feb 13, 2012)

I really like my HDS, my presets fit me like a glove. The problem with my customized presets is that when other people use my light they think it sucks, not that bright or broken. It's a pain in the butt unless I give the detailed explanation on how to use my light. During these circumstances a variable light would be great.

Easy fits everyone else, my presets still fit me just fine.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Feb 13, 2012)

AlphaZen said:


> The problem with presets is that it is hard to find a light with the exact presets you like.



What can 50 lumen do that 40 can't? IIRC, our eyes can't tell the different between those 2 settings, but runtime can be quite different between those two levels.


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## jamie.91 (Feb 13, 2012)

I like the idea of variable, but since getting my nitecore d11, i've only used it on full lol


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## dealgrabber2002 (Feb 13, 2012)

Gaffle said:


> I really like my HDS, my presets fit me like a glove. The problem with my customized presets is that when other people use my light they think it sucks, not that bright or broken. It's a pain in the butt unless I give the detailed explanation on how to use my light. During these circumstances a variable light would be great.
> 
> Easy fits everyone else, my presets still fit me just fine.





jamie.91 said:


> I like the idea of variable, but since getting my nitecore d11, i've only used it on full lol



Yea, I only use the high and low most of the time because I know how long it lasts on those modes. The other modes are unknown; I don't like not knowing what I am getting.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Feb 13, 2012)

Gaffle said:


> I really like my HDS, my presets fit me like a glove. The problem with my customized presets is that when other people use my light they think it sucks, not that bright or broken. It's a pain in the butt unless I give the detailed explanation on how to use my light. During these circumstances a variable light would be great.
> 
> Easy fits everyone else, my presets still fit me just fine.



Most of the programable lights are too expensive for me.


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## Crushmaster (Feb 13, 2012)

I personally prefer presets. However, I don't think I would mind infinitely variable, though I probably wouldn't want it as my only (carry) light (think Insight HX120 or HX150).

On something like the Photon Freedom Micro (which I sadly do not own yet), its lack of presets seems fine for me. I think it bothers me a bit more when the output is much higher. 

So, that's my opinion on the subject.
God bless,
Joel ><>.


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## excfenix (Feb 13, 2012)

IV is more of an inconvenience for me. 'Kinda takes too long. I want to push a button and be done with it. With the Xeno E03, I push the button and tap it for it to switch immediately to the next mode. None of this Goldilocks just right crap. But if you're finicky I could understand IV. I have the SWM V10R and I've found it's IV more of a novelty.


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## blanche (Feb 13, 2012)

I like pre-set modes. It keeps thing simple for me. Too low, go to next, still low, go to high.


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## liquidsix (Feb 14, 2012)

AlphaZen said:


> The problem with presets is that it is hard to find a light with the exact presets you like. I like having the whole range of options available to me, but like to set them as presets. So, for me, the best compromise is a programmable light, like the LF2XT, where you can program presets to your liking.



Amen to that. Having the right pre-set is import to me for camping. There's tons of cool lights out there but their levels just aren't right. Take the Quark AA [tactical]: 20 lumens is too low, 80 lumens is too much of a drain.

Despite that problem with presets, I still prefer them over IV for the same reason as the OP.


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## Cataract (Feb 14, 2012)

I like both (provided the presets suit my needs) but I have to say that being able to directly adjust the light level, not only up but down as well, gives the perfect amount of light every time and every second, even if you go from off to on (with a slight subsequent adjustment of course). I definitely want another IV light with an infinite control ring.


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## JohnnyBravo (Feb 15, 2012)

My favorite style is the 3 mode version: High, Mid, and low. I have no use for strobe and/or SOS modes...


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## dealgrabber2002 (Feb 17, 2012)

JohnnyBravo said:


> My favorite style is the 3 mode version: High, Mid, and low. I have no use for strobe and/or SOS modes...



For in house use, I preferred L/M/H. Outside, I preferred M/L/H or (if it exist) M/H/L .


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## berry580 (Mar 3, 2012)

geckoblink said:


> Unless you test your unit yourself, you'll never really know until you need it . . . :devil:
> 
> (Seriously, though, thanks, Selfbuilt. (Check out them commas!))
> 
> ...


Good point with the last bit, I first liked Infinitely Variable lights (Jetbeam's IBS) as it is so flexible. However I do see the run time problem, so I am starting to not mind lights with preset levels. However like geckoblink pointed out, multiple light settings simply can confuse things.

To be fair, you can overcome that by recharging the batteries after every use. Not like NiMH or Li-ion suffers from memory effects. So it's not that bad if one can be bothered.


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## LED_Thrift (Mar 3, 2012)

I thought I would like IV a lot, but many of the lights I've used with IV take too long to arrive at the level I want [ie Nitecore D10]. Don't get me wrong, I still EDC the D10 often, and overall it's one of my favorites. It is much better than lights that have poorly spaced presets.

Then I got a Zebralight *SC51w*. Great preset range and very fast to get to any of the six. Now my favorite EDC. 

Then I got a *Peak First Responder 600A*. This is one *great *way to do IV. You can turn the knob to get ANY level quickly. There is also a clicky in the back so you can have the light come on at any level it's capable of. I don't think the circuit has high overhead on the low low levels [you can get it to almost off, just _barely glowing_]_. _My favorite overall light now, just too big to EDC. As a bonus, it would be very easy for anyone to pick up and figure out quickly.


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## reppans (Mar 3, 2012)

berry580 said:


> Good point with the last bit, I first liked Infinitely Variable lights (Jetbeam's IBS) as it is so flexible. However I do see the run time problem, so I am starting to not mind lights with preset levels. However like geckoblink pointed out, multiple light settings simply can confuse things.
> 
> To be fair, you can overcome that by recharging the batteries after every use. Not like NiMH or Li-ion suffers from memory effects. So it's not that bad if one can be bothered.



That would drive me nuts.... for some reason, I just hate going to the charger and/or changing batts. 

I seem to buy very similar lights and use them in a similar fashion (mostly 1xAA lights used in moonlight and another single-digit lumen mode), and I rotate them as my EDC every couple of months. So I guess I'm getting pretty good at running a mental tally of where my battery is at any point in time. And to further recalibrate my mental tally, I always discharge my batts in a MH-C9000 so I know exactly what was left when I do change them.

I probably use my 1xAA lights around 2hrs/day, and change them every 3/4 weeks with about 40% capacity left. My lights obviously don't cycle my Eneloop enough .


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## berry580 (Mar 4, 2012)

I guess run time is less crucial to people who use their lights at low light levels, since s/he would have more opportunities to change their batteries. 

At the end of the day, IMO, IV or preset modes would be trivia to most average joes. Even to flashaholics, with lights like 4seven Quarks around (with such a broad range of brightness level), it seems like some of the most significant advantages of IV lights are now being slowly eroded away over time with improvement in the relevant areas.


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## jellydonut (Mar 4, 2012)

I don't mind preset levels - what I do mind is the worthless UIs of most lights with preset levels. Clicking through each level with the tailcap button should be unacceptable in 2012 for anything but budget lights.

The PD system, two-stage switches, and control rings. Yes please. Clicking like a dog trainer to switch levels? No. Those lights will never go past the doorstep of my home.


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## petersmith6 (Mar 4, 2012)

i went with presets for one simple reasone, i know what my run times will be.. 2.5 hours,15 hours or 150 hours on my olite m20. i would like a magnetic selector ring and the option for me to programe what each level would be.


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## Jakeyb (Mar 4, 2012)

The infinite brightness can get a bit difficult when a friend needs to use your light. It's nice to just set it to a Certain level and hand it to them. I have a few lights with infinite brightness and I like it, but depending on what I'm doing or how I'm using my light the presets are hard to beat. That's my opinion and that's why they make all kinds.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Mar 30, 2012)

Jakeyb said:


> The infinite brightness can get a bit difficult when a friend needs to use your light. QUOTE]
> 
> I thought it would be easier then preset modes... Just tell them to crank as high or as low as you want.


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## LightWalker (Mar 30, 2012)

With preset modes you can usually jump from low to high very quickly.


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## Danielight (Mar 30, 2012)

I recently purchased a *Sunwayman V10A* with IV ring, and really like it. Even running on a 14500, the Low mode is so low you can barely see it (which is nice for navigating thru the house in the middle of the night), and the High mode is over 400 lumens! The ring allows you to get anywhere in between Low and High, and the light also has memory so that the last setting you used is what shows up when you turn it on again (using the clicky tailswitch ).


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## buds224 (Mar 30, 2012)

To the OP, you bring up a good point that just re-enforced my decision to repurchase a TA21 that I had previously lost. In the end, I was able to scoop 2 of them. I believe both have their purposes, but to my luck, the TA21 has 9 steps on it's selector ring, so it's like a happy middle. Unfortunately, these are no longer available. I found both of my replacement through the marketplace.


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## march.brown (Apr 1, 2012)

I have a Solarforce Skyline 1 torch ... It is the only infinite variable that I own ... I would never buy another of this type , as I like to set the mode that I personally prefer and keep that mode in use for most of the time ... The Skyline doesn't have a memory function , so always comes on in Full Power ... In all fairness , it has a very good throw and is very bright but I still prefer a straight-forward three mode torch (High , Medium , Low) as I nearly always use the torches on low ... With one quick press , my preferred torches go from low to high mode which is exactly what I want my torches to do.

The Skyline is by my bedside , as it is great for checking down my garden (and neighbours gardens) from the upstairs bedroom window (just in case) ... For my normal bedside use , I prefer the ITP-A1 as it is too dumpy for EDC (personal preference).

So there we are ... My personal preference is a straight forward three mode torch ... I can live easily with my EDC (on keyrings) ITP-A3's with Medium , Low , High modes ... One of my ITP-A2's is also EDC and clipped in an inside pocket. 

For the daily dog-walking , I have some Solarforce L2's and L2i's all with three-mode drop-ins and all using 18650 batteries and all normally set to low mode ... Their high modes are one click away for "if and when needed".

Everyones needs are different and it is just a matter of getting a few torches that are perfect for the individuals needs ... My only mistake (so far) is in buying the Skyline torch ... It wasn't an expensive mistake , but at least I know what not to buy in the future.

No doubt there are several makes of infinitely variable torches that are much better than the Skyline , but I don't want to think first whilst choosing the right mode ... All my torches work exactly as I want them to.

I do have a few single modes dotted about the house ... My Wife prefers them ... Her Maglite 2C with the Fusion 36 and running on two 18500 batteries is her favourite as the 2D with Fusion 36 and 18650 is a bit too heavy ... Both are great for general purpose house use.

It is nice to have a few torches to choose from , with the exception of the Skyline (in my case).
.


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## nullity (Apr 1, 2012)

I like to know the runtime of my currently selected brightness.
So, I like presets.


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## jinx626 (Apr 9, 2012)

LightWalker said:


> With preset modes you can usually jump from low to high very quickly.



Maybe Zebralights like SC31 and SC51. Which others has that feature?


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## LightWalker (Apr 9, 2012)

jinx626 said:


> Maybe Zebralights like SC31 and SC51. Which others has that feature?



4Sevens Tactical Quarks can go from low to high with a twist of the head if you have it programed accordingly. Some Surefires can go from low to high with a second tap of the clickie. There are some Fenix lights with two modes as well that can switch between low and high, quickly.

I suppose you can get from low to high pretty quickly with the rotary rings as well, I don't own any since I don't like the reduction of runtime they cause.


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## jinx626 (Apr 10, 2012)

Stupid me. I was thinking multi-modes like most of the Fenix like the LD01, LD12...; a quick tap goes from low -> mid -> hi -> turbo.


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## Pöbel (Apr 10, 2012)

If the infinitely variable lights would have runtimes as efficient as preset output levels, than I would hapily by them.


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## jinx626 (May 22, 2012)

Pöbel said:


> If the infinitely variable lights would have runtimes as efficient as preset output levels, than I would hapily by them.



I didn't know variable lights efficiency is not as good as preset levels. Where can I find this info?


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## melty (May 22, 2012)

jinx626 said:


> I didn't know variable lights efficiency is not as good as preset levels. Where can I find this info?



Just look at the runtimes listed for some lights.

Jetbeam RRT01
0.005lm for 100hrs
220lm for 1.5hrs

Sunwayman V11R
1lm for 35hrs
190lm for 1.5hrs

Zebralight SC31
0.05lm for 504hrs
5lm for 89hrs
220lm for 0.9hr

Quark Mini
1lm for 100hrs
210lm for 1hr

These don't all use the same LEDs, but it's easy to see that the continuously variable models have much shorter runtimes at low output levels. At medium and max levels however, the runtimes are comparable. Relative efficiency will depend on your usage patterns.

I loooove the RRT01 I got for my wife, time will tell if it's a battery eater. I decided to try out a Peak Eiger QTC for myself... apparently the QTC material is much more efficient than the electronically-controlled continuously variable lights.


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## peterharvey73 (May 22, 2012)

I like infinitely variable for small pocket 1x16340 and 1x18350 sized lights, so we have more control at short distances.
As for the bigger lights for long distance outdoor applications, a few presets is fine.

However, having said that, as flashlights increase in power, to say 5000 lumens or more in the next 5 or 10 years, it may become necessary for all lights to be continuously variable...


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## Dr. Strangelove (May 22, 2012)

peterharvey73 said:


> However, having said that, as flashlights increase in power, to say 5000 lumens or more in the next 5 or 10 years, it may become necessary for all lights to be continuously variable...



Agreed. Personally, up to 500 lumens two levels are sufficient for me. But any more than that will require multiple levels, making variable output very attractive. I have a LED Lenser H7 and SureFire Saint headlamps and I love the variable output. Maybe it's time to try a variable output flashlight!


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## reppans (May 23, 2012)

jinx626 said:


> I didn't know variable lights efficiency is not as good as preset levels. Where can I find this info?



IV lights have an overhead draw, I'm guessing around 10ma (about the equiv. of a 3lm mode), to keep their electronic rings in a "ready" mode. As mentioned above, this draw is not really material if you tend to use your lights on their higher modes which use hundreds of ma's, but if you like the low lows you'll lose about half the runtime on a 3lm low and like 90% of a moonlight mode which use only 1-2 ma's.


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## jinx626 (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks Melty and reppans!


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## F250XLT (Jun 22, 2012)

Some of the answers in the thread are almost comical...I appreciate the fact that everyone has a preference, but some of the reasoning is over the top :laughing:

I like to have access to both...Presets are simple, and variable is fun.

Some of you spoke about the absolute need to know your exact runtimes at each preset level, c'mon, seriously? After using a light for a short while, you get a feel for what you're getting. Lower output means more runtime, higher output means shorter runtime...simple. I'd like to see the log you nitpickers are keeping to track your daily use, separate columns track use...and at which level so you can know exactly how long you have left :twothumbs You are talking like you only have one light on you at any given time...And what respectable holic wouldn't be carrying a spare cell or two :shrug:


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## unattended (Jun 22, 2012)

jh333233 said:


> I prefer IV, my point is
> -Do not have to cycle between modes to desired one
> -Able to adjust the level while the lights are off
> -Limited number of preset modes, sometime you need the 1 in between 2 preset modes
> ...



fully agreed - i´m sold on variable outputt : )))
only downside is the lower runtime in low modes.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Jun 27, 2012)

unattended said:


> fully agreed - i´m sold on variable outputt : )))
> only downside is the lower runtime in low modes.



Which one do you have?


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## guiri (Jun 29, 2012)

Absolutely variable. I love the Vara2000 button


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## TweakMDS (Jun 29, 2012)

I love the idea of a variable output, but dislike the sacrifice in runtime on the low-low and über-low modes. What they should really do is make a variable ring light like this:

|Switch position off| *click* |moonlight mode ----------------- 15 lumens| *click* |40 lumens -------------- 100 lumens| *click* | max | (end of ring)

By that I mean, you have a low mode, that's adjustable from 0.1 lumen to 15 lumens
Then you have a 40 - 100 lumen medium
and then you just have high.

I'd totally pay for that, and by designing the cirquits properly, this could eliminate the problem of inefficient low modes.

_"Trust me, I'm an engineer"_


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## baterija (Jun 29, 2012)

I completely don't care. Overall UI friendliness and fit to what I like matters more to me than numbers of levels. My tracking of usage is somewhere along the lines of - a little, more than a little, quite a bit, and a bunch. Since the OP doesn't require a light and it sees light usage rechargeables and a regular top off plan could eliminate almost all need to worry about how much it was used.


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## Up All Night (Jun 29, 2012)

My lights only have variable output when the batteries start going south! 

Joking aside, I do have a V11r on the way so I'll have to get back to you! 
Less than stellar run-times on low I can deal with.


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## RoBeacon (Jun 29, 2012)

Burgess said:


> I feel the same way as you.
> 
> Always wanna' know *How Long* it'll run at "*this*" level.
> 
> :thumbsup:



I somewhat feel the same but as soon as you change modes that whole 1.5 hours on med. idea is pretty much shot.


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## RoBeacon (Jun 29, 2012)

I just purchased a Jetbeam RRT-01. I only had a few min to play with the ring so far but I absolutely cannot get enough of the IV ring. Twist for on and twist more for a lot of light. It gets me where I need to be a lot fast than the multimode of my quark AA2 R5 and I still get all my light outputs plus some. Ive never been a fan of tactical 2 user defined modes, I personally like more options than that. I feel like the jetbeam gives that to me now.


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## fyrstormer (Jun 29, 2012)

F250XLT said:


> Some of the answers in the thread are almost comical...I appreciate the fact that everyone has a preference, but some of the reasoning is over the top :laughing:
> 
> I like to have access to both...Presets are simple, and variable is fun.
> 
> Some of you spoke about the absolute need to know your exact runtimes at each preset level, c'mon, seriously? After using a light for a short while, you get a feel for what you're getting. Lower output means more runtime, higher output means shorter runtime...simple. I'd like to see the log you nitpickers are keeping to track your daily use, separate columns track use...and at which level so you can know exactly how long you have left :twothumbs You are talking like you only have one light on you at any given time...And what respectable holic wouldn't be carrying a spare cell or two :shrug:


Quoted for truth.

I love infinitely-variable lights as long as they have control rings. That's really the only interface capable of making infinitely-variable lights easy and intuitive to use. If all I have is a push-button, modes are easier because they don't require waiting for the light to ramp up or down.


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## fyrstormer (Jun 29, 2012)

TweakMDS said:


> I love the idea of a variable output, but dislike the sacrifice in runtime on the low-low and über-low modes. What they should really do is make a variable ring light like this:
> 
> |Switch position off| *click* |moonlight mode ----------------- 15 lumens| *click* |40 lumens -------------- 100 lumens| *click* | max | (end of ring)
> 
> ...


If moonlight-mode runtime matters so much to you, and you're willing to pay for what would basically be a light with two separate drivers, then just buy a McGizmo Sapphire to use as a moonlight. Dedicated low output, runs on a small battery, indestructible casing, and runs a very long time.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Jul 6, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> McGizmo Sapphire to use as a moonlight. Dedicated low output, runs on a small battery, indestructible casing, and runs a very long time.



How much does the McGizmo Sapphire going for?


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## Ualnosaj (Jul 6, 2012)

I loved IVR and still do with the TCR1 but after using the M11R Premium Edition for a day, I love the preset modes. Maybe because they've spaced it so nicely but the only thing that would make it better is a Turbo mode 400+ lumens... and maybe Ti option


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## nullity (Jul 6, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> If moonlight-mode runtime matters so much to you, and you're willing to pay for what would basically be a light with two separate drivers, then just buy a *Photon* to use as a moonlight. Dedicated low output, runs on a small battery, indestructible casing, and runs a very long time.



There, fixed that for you. 

On Topic:
I prefer preset modes.

I'm a little OCD, and I sometimes like to be forced to choose. Infinitely variable would probably drive me mad.
I prefer to have as few parts as possible for my uses.
On a small, single cr123 light, I find it easier to change modes with a button rather than a selector ring.


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## fyrstormer (Jul 7, 2012)

dealgrabber2002 said:


> How much does the McGizmo Sapphire going for?


$150. It's a very expensive AAA light, but it could survive a nuclear explosion. Alternately you could get an Arc AAA or a #1 Peak Eiger, both of which cost significantly less.

The Photon is a nice light, and I have a few, but the usage of expensive coin-cell batteries makes them less than optimal for long-term use. They're really just keyhole-finder lights.


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## fyrstormer (Jul 7, 2012)

nullity said:


> I'm a little OCD, and I sometimes like to be forced to choose. Infinitely variable would probably drive me mad.
> I prefer to have as few parts as possible for my uses.
> On a small, single cr123 light, I find it easier to change modes with a button rather than a selector ring.


Sometimes everyone likes to be forced to choose. For my money, I'd rather have to fiddle until I find the best option than be forced to select from pre-selected options, none of which may be a perfect match for my needs at the moment.


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## HighlanderNorth (Jul 7, 2012)

I dont own any variable brightness lights. All the lights I own have set modes. The reason for that is because I was going to buy the Jetbeam RRT-21 with its control ring, but that was like 2 months ago, and it only has a max brightness of 450 lumens or so, at a time when other single 18650 or 2 - Cr123 lights run at 700-750 Lumens, so the RRT-21 seemed a bit behind. Plus it cost more than the 700-750 lumen lights. If they'd bring it up to par with other modern lights in the brightness realm, I would've bought one.

I wanted the magnetic control ring/variable brightness Jetbeam TCR-1 or the Sunwayman V10R Ti+, but they are so expensive that I bought the Eagletac D25 series instead for 1/3 the price. 

So its been either price or brightness issues that have kept me from buying an infinite adjustibility light.


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## nullity (Jul 7, 2012)

I think it also would depend on how bright the light is.

For a ~100 lumen EDC light, I can live with low, mid, and high.

For a ~1000 lumen light, I would want more than 3 options.


I prefer simplicity. If I could use a single output flashlight, I would.


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## Ualnosaj (Jul 7, 2012)

nullity said:


> For a ~1000 lumen light, I would want more than 3 options.



Which is why the Skyray King is great except the modes... 2100 and 300 only? Had they dropped in a 10 lm mode it would be perfect at that price.




________________
Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse the brevity of this message.


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## TweakMDS (Jul 8, 2012)

For an AA light, I like to have moonlight, a few lumens low, a low medium (15 or so) a high with at least 2 hours runtime (70 - 80lm) and if possible, a short running turbo mode. The turbo would probably be what's normally the high, but I rarely use my lights on high for longer than a few minutes anyway.I think that variable outputs cost too much in efficiency, so would prefer to see the mentioned modes in a SWM m10 style body.


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## rlichter (Mar 5, 2013)

duro said:


> All lights should have about 4 variable user preset modes. That would be totally awsome.




...and it is awesome: the HDS Clicky fills the bill.


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## rlichter (Mar 5, 2013)

Napalm said:


> Mhh let's think magnetic ring flashlights & rechargeable batteries.
> 
> When you can recharge your batteries after each use, it doesn't matter that much if you're able to tell how much charge was left in them.
> 
> ...



The catch is that IV controls consume a significantly higher percentage of power at low lumen settings than do fixed step controls. In any situation requiring long run times and low lumen levels, a stepped control is preferable. If I were walking in unfamiliar territory or hiking deep into the outback, I'd carry a stepped light for backup. Until such time as some clever engineer comes up with a variable circuit as efficient as a fixed-step circuit.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Mar 5, 2013)

Poll added. I didn't know how to do it when I first started this thread.


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## Rafael Jimenez (Mar 5, 2013)

One of my lights is a Varapower turbo 2. I use it on medium power, but sometimes I like to go full power. It's nice to know you can do it. I also enjoy seeing how people are surprised to see the super high intensity it has.


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## rlichter (Mar 5, 2013)

flashlight nut said:


> Actually the concept is pretty simple. Some of us are in professions or circumstances that require instant access to bright light while our attention is directed elsewhere. A UI is need that when you grab your light and click the button you rely on a specific amount of light. I hear too many stories where the ring turns while in the pocket or otherwise. In high stress situations fine motor skills and some simple thought process are the first to go. A IV ring is just another distraction that you might not have the luxury of a second or two to deal with. I wonder about people who can't grasp this concept. Must be nice to never have to worry about such things.



The distinction is alluded to but rarely made explicit between recreational use and professional use. If my safety were at stake, no way I'd carry an IV light as a primary. I want a light programmed to turn on at full brightness and having a proven, dependable level control system.


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## cerbie (Mar 5, 2013)

I _like_ variable output, when done by a knob (or twisty w/ QTC), but I also chew up batteries with it, so I'm not going to buy any more of them .


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## dealgrabber2002 (May 22, 2013)

cerbie said:


> I _like_ variable output, when done by a knob (or twisty w/ QTC), but I also chew up batteries with it, so I'm not going to buy any more of them .



QTC chew up batteries... not knobs right?


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## joelbnyc (May 22, 2013)

Poll needs an "It's Complicated" option 

I think I prefer variable on my keychain, and modes on my larger in-bag edc. I'm not really sure why.


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## LGT (May 22, 2013)

I use, and like, both. Depends on what the light is being used for. While in an unlit cellar, and needing to read dials on an electric meter, IV is quite handy. Because of the glare on the glass, preset can be too high or too low for that type of application. While outdoors, I use preset. Haven't really had the need for the IV minutia while using a light outdoors.


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## aau007 (May 22, 2013)

I use both. During casual use, I really don't care presets or IV. I just grab whatever is in front of me. However, I NEED IV at situations when I work at close quarters. For example, there are times that I need to dial in an exact brightness like when I need to read serial numbers off equipment. Too bright and I get reflections, too dim and I can't read the tag. Being able to adjust a few extra lumens up or down also helps to determine if that character is a B or 8, 0 or O, etc.

As far as runtime, I don't really care as long as I know how long a battery will last at max. If I know I need extended runtime, I just bring extra batteries or even a charger. I am a city boy and I don't go deep mountain camping or hiking so that getting lost in the sticks and stuck for a few days thing will never happen to me.

Oh, one more thing. I use an IV light as a bed side light. I can turn on/off and adjust brightness in complete silence.


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## Dirtbasher (May 22, 2013)

One of the reasons I like ledlenser H7 headlamp , it has the IV adjuster , ideal as a Tech light or inspection light.


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## dealgrabber2002 (May 23, 2013)

aau007 said:


> I use both. During casual use, I really don't care presets or IV. I just grab whatever is in front of me. However, I NEED IV at situations when I work at close quarters. For example, there are times that I need to dial in an exact brightness like when I need to read serial numbers off equipment. Too bright and I get reflections, too dim and I can't read the tag. Being able to adjust a few extra lumens up or down also helps to determine if that character is a B or 8, 0 or O, etc.
> 
> As far as runtime, I don't really care as long as I know how long a battery will last at max. If I know I need extended runtime, I just bring extra batteries or even a charger. I am a city boy and I don't go deep mountain camping or hiking so that getting lost in the sticks and stuck for a few days thing will never happen to me.
> 
> Oh, one more thing. I use an IV light as a bed side light. I can turn on/off and adjust brightness in complete silence.



that a very good use of the iv when a few lumen makes a different


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## aau007 (May 23, 2013)

This is what happened to me when my sense came to small IV lights.

I have to work in close quarters often. Underneath desks, behind cabinets, inside cabinets, behind drawers, etc. A big light is not convienient so I have to use a small light. Then I need 2 hands sometimes so I have to hold the light in my mouth. When I need to adjust the brightness, not always friendly when I have to take that light out of my mouth, click the tail switch to hunt for the right brightness and many times finding low is too low and 1 higher is too high. Mind you, that when I need the exact brightness to read number or information tags, keeping the same distance of the light while adjusting the brightness is important. With a small IV light and control ring, I can just adjust the brightness without removing that light from my mouth.

I guess IV lights come in handy if your use involves any type of inspections whereas a specific amount of light at a certain distance helps you make a better distinguishment of objects. Then you have the reflection issue when you want the most amount of light on the object just up to the point where the glares do not get on your nerve. Then you have the other end when you want to use the least amount of light just to be able to identify something but don't want the spill light to get onto things around you.


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## harro (May 25, 2013)

The only place i really use infinitely variable lights is on my road pushbike, and then i could split them into two categories.
My Sunwayman V20C is excellent around town. Quick adjustment and enough lumens for a built up area.
My dipped beam 'Xeccon' ( flood, 4 x xp-g r5, 1600 LED lumens ) has infinite adj, and the worst UI i've ever used. Comes on at max. then immediately does a reccuring high to low ( 200 LED lumen ) cycle, and once it reaches low, then instantly starts again at 1600. This cycle takes about 30 seconds and doesnt stop until you decide which level you require. To change output on the road is a pain, so the light gets set at about 1000 Lumens and 5000ish lux ( about 10 seconds into the cycle ) and left at that for the duration of the ride.
My main beam light is a much more conventional preset 'Xeccon' hi-lo-slow flash single xm-l2.
So for me, infinite and preset both have their place.
Cheers


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## burntoshine (May 27, 2013)

I have one IV light and that's the high cri edition of Sunwayman's V11r. It's just fun to use the variable control. It's much less efficient, but the feature is worth some extra power. I use AW RCR123s in it. When I really want to dial in the perfect level, IV is great. However I prefer my HDS rotary when away from home, to dial in the right level with efficiency. So, I like both. I would possibly prefer infinitely variable if it was as efficient as preset modes.


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## dealgrabber2002 (May 29, 2013)

Although the poll was just added recently, I didn't expect preset to be in the lead..


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## Jash (May 31, 2013)

I only ever owned one IV light. I gave it away within a week. Horrible, horrible idea.


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## melty (May 31, 2013)

Jash said:


> I only ever owned one IV light. I gave it away within a week. Horrible, horrible idea.



Care to provide the information on which you base your opinion?


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## Z-Tab (May 31, 2013)

I haven't been that impressed with most IV lights. The Surefire Titan is definitely the best and most technologically impressive execution of the concept, and that light is great to use, but the other versions I've tried (Sunwayman, Jetbeam, HDS, and some QTC lights) have fallen short.

The best UI I have experienced is the Spy 007's six-setting knob. Plenty of options of output, all readily accessible without changing your grip on the light at all.


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## quantumboy7 (Jun 2, 2013)

Jetbeam RRT-01. Amazing. Silky smooth control ring. You can zip it from nothing to 500 lm in a nanosecond. The thing I love about it is the low-low-low setting is nothing. It starts out with two or three photons streaming out. Can't even see the light in full darkness it's so dim. It truly does go from zero (for all intents and purposes) to 500 and anything in between. What a great light! It's my only light with infinite control and I'll be looking for more. True, it's not a tactical light but I don't use it for that. Mostly at work on the factory floor where I need to look closely at welds and stuff in varying lighting conditions. Oh, and easy one-handed operation. In fact, that's the only way I use it.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Mar 23, 2014)

Ironic. I recently obtained a Nitecore D20 ramping. I am confused all over again. What do I like?!


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## Charles L. (Mar 23, 2014)

Easy question for me. IV by a wide margin. Caveat: I am not in a profession where instant access to bright light is needed.


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## mbw_151 (Mar 25, 2014)

Well I've become addicted to Surefire Minimus headlamps which are IV, just dial up enough light for the task at hand. I tried a Titan T1a based on the Minimus experience, but didn't like it as much as I thought I would. I never felt completely comfortable trying to quickly twist to high with one hand. I kept gravitating back to my HDS. For a handheld, I like to have immediate, one hand access to Maximum output. Many times hiking at night, I use the headlamp and carry a single mode Surefire with a M61 or M61L for longer range, shorter duration use.


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## Charles L. (Mar 25, 2014)

Nitecore SRT3 has an indent for both min and max output, so it's easy to preset it to turn on at min or max. I'm sure it's possible to accidentally move the IV ring away from the indent, but it seems unlikely. For me this light would be perfect if it were its current size but accepted an 18650 instead of a CR-123.


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## reppans (Mar 26, 2014)

mbw_151 said:


> ...For a handheld, I like to have immediate, one hand access to Maximum output...



My favorite UI "feature" is a single-handed momentary max FROM any lower mode in use - works like car high beam flashers, and works great for signaling (Morse if you want).


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## dealgrabber2002 (Sep 26, 2018)

wow, forgot about this thread. 

Surprisingly, last I checked, Preset modes were up...


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## ZMZ67 (Sep 26, 2018)

A lot of my interest is in single mode lights these days but after years of multi-mode use my opinion hasn't changed since 2011. Multi-mode lights with several preset levels and no memory would still be my preference as far as multi-level lights are concerned.My old Quark with moonlight-high and bezel tighten for max is about right if it just didn't have the strobe modes.UI is of course a big factor with any preset mode light.


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## Connor (Sep 27, 2018)

Looking at the poll results the answer is obviously "both". The Emisar D4S got it right by doing just that and making it easy to switch between both modes.


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## jorn (Sep 27, 2018)

still use my nitecore d10 and sunwayman v10r ti, both are uppgraded with new leds and love them both.


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## markr6 (Sep 27, 2018)

Connor said:


> Looking at the poll results the answer is obviously "both". The Emisar D4S got it right by doing just that and making it easy to switch between both modes.



Exactly. Giving the option to use either eliminated any arguments really. Great light! I started out using the variable setting, but switched to stepping mode and I'm pretty sure I'll always leave it at that. I programmed it to only have 5 modes so it's not so cumbersome to cycle back and forth.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Sep 27, 2018)

jorn said:


> still use my nitecore d10 and sunwayman v10r ti, both are uppgraded with new leds and love them both.



Sold my D10 cause of infinite variable UI.


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## fyrstormer (Oct 7, 2018)

7 years later I still prefer infinitely variable UIs, not least because I can turn the brightness up _or_ down as needed, rather than being forced to cycle through modes in only one direction.


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