# Have you owned a SureFire?



## shado (Aug 19, 2012)

It's been a few years and a bunch of lights since I started collecting. After reading a thread this evening it occured to me, I've never owned a SureFire. Have you?


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## nbp (Aug 19, 2012)

I own 6, and have owned and sold maybe 3 or 4 others.


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## mvyrmnd (Aug 19, 2012)

Nope, and I have no intention to, either.


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## Tim W (Aug 19, 2012)

Three currently, and have sold a couple others.


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## nbp (Aug 19, 2012)

mvyrmnd said:


> Nope, and I have no intention to, either.




:ironic:

There's some good models out there you might like. Especially if you get 'em used; get a heck of a light for not a lot of money.


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## Tim W (Aug 19, 2012)

mvyrmnd said:


> Nope, and I have no intention to, either.




Your loss, mate!:huh:


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## shado (Aug 19, 2012)

I tried to buy a Fury 500 last year from a dealer, but they wouldn't ship outside the USA  The same thing happen when I tried to buy an A2 in the marketplace :shakehead


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## HotWire (Aug 19, 2012)

I've got a bunch of SureFires. I have never had one fail. Yea, I've modded them too.

Edit: Everyone has an incandescent lamp fail from time to time.


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## mvyrmnd (Aug 19, 2012)

nbp said:


> :ironic:
> 
> There's some good models out there you might like. Especially if you get 'em used; get a heck of a light for not a lot of money.



I'm sure there are but mostly, the only way to get the UI and emitters that I prefer are to buy customs or get lights modded - and in that case I prefer customs.

Most Surefires I see are designed for CR123 primaries, and they cost $10 *EACH* where I live. The ones that use rechargeables don't offer me anything I can't get for less money, or in a more attractive host (really, I don't find many of them very attractive)

There will be those that will tell me that they're unbreakable and all that jazz, but I beat the living crap out of my Tri-EDC and it's holding up nicely, thanks for asking.


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## nbp (Aug 19, 2012)

shado said:


> I tried to buy a Fury 500 last year from a dealer, but they wouldn't ship outside the USA  The same thing happen when I tried to buy an A2 in the marketplace :shakehead



Todd, if you ever need a shipper in the US for something you want on the MP, I'd be happy to help if I can. You helped me out when I was looking for that McLux III-T, the most treasured light of my collection. I can easily forward a package to you if you want to try out a Surefire at some point.


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## Empire (Aug 19, 2012)

shado said:


> It's been a few years and a bunch of lights since I started collecting. After reading a thread this evening it occured to me, I've never owned a SureFire. Have you?


Titan,E2D Defender, E2D Led Defender


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## Chowderhead72 (Aug 20, 2012)

I just bought my first non surefire last week....... I only have an old school e2d (Incan) and a G2led. I am hoping my new Sunwayman stuff isn't a huge let down. 

The beauty of surefire is that once you get sick of it you can sell and recoup a much larger percentage of your original expense, try that with a three year old XXXXfire.... Dumpster food!


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## eh4 (Aug 20, 2012)

shado said:


> It's been a few years and a bunch of lights since I started collecting. After reading a thread this evening it occured to me, I've never owned a SureFire. Have you?





Yeah, E2E. Great light but it doesn't shine so long, single level and the bulbs burn out... Oh and I wore the rubber off the switch over the years.


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## shado (Aug 20, 2012)

nbp said:


> Todd, if you ever need a shipper in the US for something you want on the MP, I'd be happy to help if I can. You helped me out when I was looking for that McLux III-T, the most treasured light of my collection. I can easily forward a package to you if you want to try out a Surefire at some point.



Thank you for the kind offer :wave:


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## SoCalDep (Aug 20, 2012)

I had a C2 and M2, and older G2. I traded the C2, sold the M2, and gave the G2 as a gift. I purchased a Surefire Z2 for a low light training class over ten years ago...I upgraded it with a P60L when those came out, and it currently has a Lumens Factory H-CRI drop-in. Love it! In fact, I've worn the checkering off the tailcap...It's smooth now. 

Besides the Z2, I currently have the following:

E2e
6P Gunmetal with P60L
9P with Lumens Factory Drop-In
G2 with Solarforce bezel and Green LED drop-in
G2X Tactical
LX2 Lumamax

I also had an X200 that I reluctantly sold to a friend, an X300 that I sold because I acquired another one, and I have a third issued to me by my employer. Thousands and thousands of rounds and they are all still perking along just fine.

A Fury Tactical and KX2C head for my E2e are in my fairly near future.


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## T45 (Aug 20, 2012)

3 6Ps, 2 Black and 1 Gun Metal
1 G2, Black
1 M3 with a Malkoff LD10
1 E2L
1 9P with a M31L running on 2 Lithium AAs and a M2 Head


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## Dr. Strangelove (Aug 20, 2012)

Right now I'm down to my Dream Team, three Fury's, two E1Bs and a Saint. Recently I decided to sell all my shelf queens so I've sold or gifted about a dozen more. 

My wife uses the light that started it all, a G2 that I later upgraded with a KX4.

Fortunately, there's a camping store near me that sells Surefire 123s for $1 each. I always have about 50 floating around the house.


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## 880arm (Aug 20, 2012)

It all started innocently enough with a couple of 6P's for trying out some Nailbender drop-ins. Now there are about 80 others to keep them company.


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## lightfooted (Aug 20, 2012)

mvyrmnd said:


> I'm sure there are but mostly, the only way to get the UI and emitters that I prefer are to buy customs or get lights modded - and in that case I prefer customs.
> 
> Most Surefires I see are designed for CR123 primaries, and they cost $10 *EACH* where I live. The ones that use rechargeables don't offer me anything I can't get for less money, or in a more attractive host (really, I don't find many of them very attractive)
> 
> There will be those that will tell me that they're unbreakable and all that jazz, but I beat the living crap out of my Tri-EDC and it's holding up nicely, thanks for asking.



Yeah the branded primaries are expensive around here as well...which is why I went rechargeable and began using 17670s in mine.


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## ZMZ67 (Aug 20, 2012)

I don't have a wide variety,they are all based around the P series lamps and most are currently hosting Malkoff drop-ins.


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## calipsoii (Aug 20, 2012)

mvyrmnd said:


> Nope, and I have no intention to, either.



Your loss. The previous generation of Surefire's, back before they went with a sealed body design, are some of the finest hosts I've ever owned.

I haven't tried _every _Surefire light yet, but of the ones I have, the A2 is still my favorite over all others. There's a reason I own 4 and carry one at least 5 days a week. Pop a couple RCR123's in there and you have a rechargeable, VERY throwy pocket light with a gorgeous 100CRI beam. That's not to say anything about the long-running, floody secondary LED's. It's a fantastic light and it was a sad day when SF discontinued it.


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## CamoNinja (Aug 20, 2012)

Owned a few and didn't like them. Sold or traded them.


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## yliu (Aug 20, 2012)

I've never owned any Surefires mainly because of their extremely high price tag here in Europe. Although once I have the chance to go to the US, I'll definitely buy a few.


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## Henryseale (Aug 20, 2012)

Yes, I own two of them. One I use as a weapon light and the other I modified with a Cree LED drop in. Really like my Surefires!


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Aug 20, 2012)

I've owned many Surefires and still own some. Well-built solid flashlights. I appreciate the C2 and 6P for the P60 drop-ins (especially the newer triples and quads out there). I've also owned M3s and M6s - very powerful incans. The M3 is one of my favorites. Also run em on rechargeables, not primaries - too $$$

Now if you are not into incans I can easily understand how they would not appeal to you. The stock LEDs they use in there lights leave a lot to be desired and I have no draw to these newer lights.


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## cland72 (Aug 20, 2012)

Yes, and that's almost all that I own now. I experimented with Fenix and was disappointed so I went back to what I knew would always work. The only exception is a L2P with an XML 3 mode, and a 4/7 Mini 123 HCRI.

I currently have 6P, 9P, M4, M3, M3T, M952V, E1B, E2DL, E2E, A2L-RD, & Fury. I've had others but sold them -- not because of a lack of quality, but lack of use and I wanted someone else to enjoy them since I couldn't.

If it's life and death, I'm grabbing one of my Surefires.


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## Maxbelg (Aug 20, 2012)

I've owned lots and lots of Surefires and sold lots too. Currently I have 6 and one on the way for which I can hardly wait: Kroma modded with XML and white leds in place of the blue ones!
At the end of the day they have been my most reliable lights.(love my HDS acme 170 GDP too, but don't trust it like a Surefire). Favorite at present is an A2L with white secondary LEDs which I run on 17670s: i just love different beamstyles with such a simple UI!!! 
Before I owned and used Surefires I couldn't understand the fuss and thought them,overpriced, but now I know better.........


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## Launch Mini (Aug 20, 2012)

Currenty have 2 E1B's ( new & old version), a Titan Stock ( for daughter at university), and Titan modded to a neutral XPG. All great lights. These are the ones I lend to guests at the cabin first. If they can handle these, then they might get to use a SPY or Haiku.
I had a St Minimus, but it crapped out on me and my local AD didn't carry headlights any more, so I picked up the second E1B instead.


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## kramer5150 (Aug 20, 2012)

Yes I currently own a G2, 6P, E2L, M2, A2-incan. I try and stick with their smaller lights that accept rechargable cells. I stay away from their designs (and anyone else for that matter) that only use primary CR123. I also stay away from their bigger + brighter lights, I don't see as much return on the $ invested.

The E2L with a 17670 and a water bottle diffuser is a great EDC setup.


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## kelmo (Aug 20, 2012)

I own more than a few SF.

What I don't get is why are they so controlled sales wise outside the US? 

kelmo


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## cland72 (Aug 20, 2012)

kelmo said:


> I own more than a few SF.
> 
> What I don't get is why are they so controlled sales wise outside the US?
> 
> kelmo



It has to do with ITAR compliance. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations


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## derangboy (Aug 20, 2012)

I have a couple. The M6 with the PHd mod is exceptional for Alberta's "brown" season :laughing:

The dealer in Calgary has the Vampire on the shelf, so it seems only some models might be limited. Do I need a Vampire? Not really. Do I want one to check my trail cam setup at night? Of course!


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## Grizzman (Aug 20, 2012)

Yes, I've got a few of them, starting with a 6P that's lived its entire life attached to one weapon or another. It's a very simple, solid, dependable light.

In the order of acquisition:

6P LED (Malkoff M61) weapon mounted
E2D Defender
M951 weapon mounted
6P LED Defender (Malkoff M61LL)
LX2

I've been contemplating getting a VME head for my E2D Defender to convert it from a thrower to more of a multi-purpose light.

I plan to get a 9P fairly soon, and it will also run a Malkoff drop in, attached to my primary HD shotgun.


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## cland72 (Aug 20, 2012)

Grizzman said:


> Yes, I've got a few of them, starting with a 6P that's lived its entire life attached to one weapon or another. It's a very simple, solid, dependable light.
> 
> In the order of acquisition:
> 
> ...



Try out that 9P as a handheld -- it's a pretty versatile setup. You can run 2x17500, 3x123 primaries, or even 2xAA with reduced output.


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## fresh eddie fresh (Aug 20, 2012)

I own about 20, and have sold off probably around 15. I love Surefires... the only light I have that isn't a Surefire is my Malkoff Wildcat, and only because the head wouldn't fit on a 9P.


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## yellow (Aug 20, 2012)

double timeout post ...


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## yellow (Aug 20, 2012)

Funny, as noone yet seems to have used (or still own) a _real_ surefire ... one of the "old" rechargeable incan models that created the reputation.
They are sooo much nicer to look at, or - for the 6P - to pocket them, ... also they are way more rugged

6 P/R
8X & 9N (w. homemade body). These two were the bomb at their time
an A2 because of the praises here, but the CR123s I tried did not fit into (too long, so no 2 way switch. Both led and main bulb came on together). And I dont want to mess with waste batteries in gadgets with such a poor runtime.
... its stinger bulb modded, of course 


PS: I do wonder, if "no SF has ever failed on me" does, or does not, include bulbs to 
:thinking:


I do have a bunch on actual models (mainly overready 18650 modded and with Led insert) but I _hate_ how they are built now.
My old 6P has seen quite some use and also falls but there is only a single slight bend in it. 
The "new" orange colored overready 6P received a considerable bend at the lip, because I did not instantly have the bezel ring installed. It has only been petted around, but seems to have received an impact somewhere (dunno how and where).
I also recommended a 6P w. led insert to a friend and he only had it in his backpack, never used it. When we needed the lights, it got out and half of the lip was bent inside. Imho to the point it might get dangerous to bend it back to be able to install the real bezel ring (overready`s) ...
That "quality improvement" is sooo disappointing




cland72 said:


> Try out that 9P as a handheld -- it's a pretty versatile setup. You can run 2x17500, 3x123 primaries, or even 2xAA with reduced output.


I thought that topic over and over several times and always end up at:
"why getting a much longer light than 6P/18650 with does not offer any advantage for that worsened size?"
what point do I miss?


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## Lucciola (Aug 20, 2012)

Just one so far: E1B. But I am so impressed with it that I definitely want more. Seems I've reached the second or third stadium of acute flashoholism.


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## cland72 (Aug 20, 2012)

yellow said:


> I thought that topic over and over several times and always end up at:
> "why getting a much longer light than 6P/18650 with does not offer any advantage for that worsened size?"
> what point do I miss?



Not to be rude, but the answer to your question was contained in my post you quoted.

If your priority is smallest package possible, yes, get a bored 6P for sheer runtime. If you want versitility, the 9P is an option worth considering.


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## scout24 (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm an E-series fan, got a few knocking around here...  G2 is also an awesome light with an Oveready McClicky kit installed. Nice with a P60, or your choice of lower- powered dropin. Shado- I'm looking for that "can of worms" smiley...  Everyone should own an E2E at some point, and an A2. YMMV, but they're classics and both work as well today as they did when introduced.


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## Larbo (Aug 20, 2012)

I still have a L2 and a 6P with a Malkoff M61W


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## tab665 (Aug 20, 2012)

M4, M6, M6LT, and 6PX.... waiting paitiently for the new Dominator.


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## enomosiki (Aug 20, 2012)

L1 and C2.

Currently throwing my money at the screen for an EB1, but nothing's happening!


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## smokinbasser (Aug 20, 2012)

I had to do a mental count of my Surefires. Currently at 5 I believe. Not the brightest light but fairly sure they will hold up to my needs if power goes out for any length of time.


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## Shadowww (Aug 20, 2012)

Nope, and not planning to, because lights from other manufacturers offer superior value and functionality to me.


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## smoggyusa (Aug 20, 2012)

Because of CPF my first quality light was a surefire A2, I now have many more.:thumbsup:


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## S1LVA (Aug 20, 2012)

I have owned many Surefire lights in the past. When I first got into serious flashlight collecting, my first two lights were the Maratac AAA and AA. I wanted more power and I jumped right for an LX2 Lumamax. After that, I was hooked!! There is nothing better than a Surefire, I swear by them.

My current collection includes:
M3T w/ triad tailcap and MN15... MD60 on the way
9P bored with matching A19 extender/ Moddoo LMH 219 triple
C2-HA w/ Malkoff 219 M61L
C2-HA unopened
Z2 w/ M61WLLL
E2E-HA stock
LX2 Lumamax
E1E-BK stock
E1E-BK w/ Kuku 3-mode Hi CRI drop in
Spare Z2 body
Spare C2-HA body
Various extra tailcaps and bezels/ incandescent lamps

I trust Surefire with my life!!!

S1LVA


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## rick oz (Aug 20, 2012)

I currently own a 6P and 3 G2's. 6P currently has Neutral XP-G and clicky switch, while the G2's have a P60L, KX4-BKHA and a low output XR-E with optic.

The 6P has been with me on many adventures and hairy situations, it was also my first quality light so I don't believe i could ever sell it.

G2's do not get 'abused', but they have worked very hard for many years and have never failed or are barely even scratched.

I think every flashaholic should own a SureFire at some point. You really have to use them for a while to really appreciate them, especially when you need them most.


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## Grizzman (Aug 20, 2012)

cland72 said:


> Try out that 9P as a handheld -- it's a pretty versatile setup. You can run 2x17500, 3x123 primaries, or even 2xAA with reduced output.



I've got a couple Malkoff MD3s, and am definitely fond of their size and versatility. I actually bought one of them for the 12 gauge, but just couldn't leave it there. I decided to just throw on a 6P with an XM tailcap I had laying around, untill I pick up the longer 9P. I generally run two 18500s. 

I'm in line to get both 6Ps, and the future 9P, bored for even more power options.

Grizz


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## skyfire (Aug 20, 2012)

most my lights consists of surefires. 
if you like your LS20 as much as i think you do, it wouldnt hurt to try out a L1 . which also happens to me my all time favorite.

currently own
L1 x4
E2DL
E2L-AA
E1L
C2
G2Z
G2
minimus vision

owned and sold
LX2
9P
G2
E2E
E1E
A2 red


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## TadpolePilot (Aug 20, 2012)

No, not me. The reason they are over priced and Budget Lights give a way
better bang for the dollar. :sigh:
Higher lumens and more able to mod.
P-60 host SolarForce and drop in for about $27.00 is the wave to go for me.


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## cland72 (Aug 20, 2012)

A Surefire will be "banging" long after the budget brand light has given up the ghost.

Surefire is like a Honda Civic: not the slickest or latest and greatest, but it sure will get you where you want to go reliably.


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## ganymede (Aug 21, 2012)

cland72 said:


> It has to do with ITAR compliance.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations



Chris,

As far as I know, correct me if I am wrong, only certain Surefire products (Hi-cap mags, sound suppressors, muzzle brakes, Hellfighter, etc) are restricted by ITAR to be sold outside of the USA.

The main reason Surefire does not want any of its USA flashlight dealers to sell overseas is to protect their overseas dealers.

Regards,
Ian


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## ganymede (Aug 21, 2012)

Surefire is like peanut, can't stop at one... :devil:

My collections so far:

6P-GM NRA x 2
6P-BK x 1 
6PX-PRO RED 911 x 2
A2L-WH x 1
A2-WH x 1 
C2-HA x 5 (I think! )
C2-BK x 1
E1B-BK x 1 
E1E-HA x 1 
E2D-BK Defender x 1 
E2E-HA x 3 
E2E-SG x 1 
E2L-AA x 1
M4-CB x 1
Z2-BK x 3 (I think! )
Z2-L x 1
9P-BK x 2
M3T x 1

Not too sure if I missed anything though...


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## Mikeg23 (Aug 21, 2012)

I've had 17 pass through my hands and currently have 8. For a long time an incandescent Surefire was about the only thing I would carry. With the "warm" and "HCRI" LEDs becoming more prevalent I find myself gravitating more towards Malkoff, but while I like the malkoff drop-ins I still prefer the Surefire body.
That being said I don't see my self buying another Surefire until/unless the expand their HCRI line up.


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## reppans (Aug 21, 2012)

Never owned one. I do like the idea of an ultra reliable, high quality light American light like SF and HDS, but SF just seems too focused on tactical and impractical, and both are too dedicated to the 123 format, which just seems to be a disadvantage if you like single cell rechargeables.


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## Shadowww (Aug 21, 2012)

cland72 said:


> A Surefire will be "banging" long after the budget brand light has given up the ghost.


Yeah, we know that CPF is pro-Surefire circlejerk, no need to remind everyone about that.
There are budget (budget compared to Surefire, which includes Fenix, Jetbeam, 4Sevens, etc) lights that are just as reliable as Surefire lights, and offer much better functionality (such as support for most energy-dense batteries - the 18650's, multiple modes, wide emitter choices etc) for less price.


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## scout24 (Aug 21, 2012)

:shakehead


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## mvyrmnd (Aug 21, 2012)

Aaaand down the rabbit hole we go...


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## run4jc (Aug 21, 2012)

scout24 said:


> I'm an E-series fan, got a few knocking around here...  G2 is also an awesome light with an Oveready McClicky kit installed. Nice with a P60, or your choice of lower- powered dropin. Shado- I'm looking for that "can of worms" smiley...  Everyone should own an E2E at some point, and an A2. YMMV, but they're classics and both work as well today as they did when introduced.



Agreed. I suppose I'm in the 'circle' :shakehead

E2E, G2, 6P. Old classics. E2E and G2 bone stock incan - 6P with a Vinh 219 drop in. 

BTW, pity that a good thread started by one of CPF's best members has to be soiled with off color comments


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## Lou Minescence (Aug 21, 2012)

I own a 6p incandescent that was given to me. I was surprised how nice the beam was. I don't use it much.
I have been waiting for the updated Invictus and LX2 that were in the 2012 catalogue to come out. From what another forum member found out by phone, that may be delayed or not happen at all.
It was the user interface and ability to use rechargeables in those lights that has my attention.


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## FPSRelic (Aug 21, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> Yeah, we know that CPF is pro-Surefire circlejerk, no need to remind everyone about that.
> There are budget (budget compared to Surefire, which includes Fenix, Jetbeam, 4Sevens, etc) lights that are just as reliable as Surefire lights, and offer much better functionality (such as support for most energy-dense batteries - the 18650's, multiple modes, wide emitter choices etc) for less price.



Hey, not to sound rude, but this thread has _nothing to do_ with what you're posting. The posts title says "Have you owned a Surefire" not "Are Surefire's worth it?". The arguments you are making are hardly new, and have been argued in literally hundreds of locked posts in this forum. They often get posts like this locked, mostly because they turn into an all out flame war. If you are really interested in pursuing this line of argument, please use the search tool and check out those posts to check out the responses.


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## Chicken Drumstick (Aug 21, 2012)

shado said:


> It's been a few years and a bunch of lights since I started collecting. After reading a thread this evening it occured to me, I've never owned a SureFire. Have you?



Nope not owned one. And honestly I'm not sure I can see the appeal, or at the very least they don't appeal to me. Great lights I'm sure, but not a single SureFire appears on any of my 'want' or 'maybe' lists.

Just had a quick look at the SureFire website, and it really only confirms my opinion. They don't seem to sell anything I'm remotely interested in, and certainly not for those prices.

Great lights I'm sure, just not for me though.


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## nbp (Aug 21, 2012)

reppans said:


> Never owned one. I do like the idea of an ultra reliable, high quality light American light like SF and HDS, but SF just seems too focused on tactical and impractical, and both are too dedicated to the 123 format, which just seems to be a disadvantage if you like single cell rechargeables.



HDS lights accept rechargeables, as do some SFs.


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## stienke (Aug 21, 2012)

My first Surefire was a D2 I bought about 15 years ago (looks like a 6P with clip) , after that I did collecting 48 Surefires but sold almost all after a few years , I sold my last L1 a few weeks ago!
So no Surefire at the moment:shrug:

GJR:wave:


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## beach honda (Aug 21, 2012)

Currently own:
Z2,C2,M3,T1A


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## ABTOMAT (Aug 21, 2012)

Currently own:

E1L
Z2L
U2
M3T
M6
UB3T
Hellfighter

Used to own:

G2
E1 (vintage)
6P (vintage)
6R (vintage)
9P (vintage)
U2A
M6
M6
M3LT
P2X Fury

No, I didn't pay close to retail for any of them. That's for the birds. Also, maybe I've just drawn bad lots, but I haven't been too impressed by the quality of Fenix and Jetbeam lights I've owned or handled. Not saying SF's always worth the money but it sometimes is.


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## tech25 (Aug 21, 2012)

Yes, I own a G2L (origional 80 lm)


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## WriteAway (Aug 21, 2012)

I ordered an E1E, a G2 and a 6P (all incandescent) last year during the SureFire incandescent inventory clearance sales that were going on. I later added a KX4 head to the 6P for the led benefits. So far, all three lights work for my general needs quite well. The G2 may get a KX4 at some time in the future, if money permits...


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## WDR65 (Aug 21, 2012)

Currently own an E1B, U2 and LX2. I've owned over twenty but pared down my numbers after a move. The E1B is my most used light probably ever and I'm waiting patiently to upgrade to the EB1. I'm sure there will be more in my future. On the other side of the coin, I do own several Quarks and a couple of Fenix lights. I carry and use them as well but the core of my users are and have been for the past ten years Surefire's.


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## Up All Night (Aug 21, 2012)

Guilty!!!
My humble three, E2DL, E1B and G2X Pro. Working on a last gen L1, waiting on the EB1! 
Btw, it's not a circlejerk, it's a MAS. MUTUAL ADMIRATION SOCIETY! :nana:


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## Monocrom (Aug 26, 2012)

I own almost two dozen of them.


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## fyrstormer (Aug 26, 2012)

I've owned a few. I ended up selling all of them. They just didn't offer me any features I couldn't get from customs, and some of the higher-end Asian manufacturers offer even better features. That, combined with the restrictions on the batteries that can be used, means I never really appreciated them.

If I'd discovered them back in 2000, maybe I'd have a different opinion.


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## iammiah (Aug 26, 2012)

Two. A C3 Centurion, which was purchased quite awhile back (Luxeon III era), and has remained more or less unscathed, and a L6 which I picked up in January this year for a pretty good price.


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## mega_lumens (Aug 26, 2012)

I only own "old school" SF for its modularity. I have interest in some of their latest LED models but can't justify the cost out of fear that within few years these LEDs will be "obsolete" in run time and efficiency; especially, when the torch market has been flooded with great brands that produce quality products for cheaper cost and more flexibility in battery options. Currently I rely on Malkoff upgrades for my SF C2 and Z2 bodies. 
I wish SF would come up with an amazing design for their LED lights where they can be universally upgraded with newer LEDs. But that's difficult with LEDs requiring specific reflectors.


----------



## ABTOMAT (Aug 26, 2012)

mega_lumens said:


> I wish SF would come up with an amazing design for their LED lights where they can be universally upgraded with newer LEDs. But that's difficult with LEDs requiring specific reflectors.



They did, with the P-series-compatible lights. I just wish SF hadn't gotten away from the modular approach. Even the 2004 catalog has pages devoted to "unlike other manufacturers, Surefire lets you assemble your light just the way you want it." I wonder if the marketing or engineering director behind that was replaced along the line.


----------



## huntz362 (Aug 26, 2012)

Nope, I sure haven't. But I'm finding more interest in high dollar flashlights. First my addiction started with guns. Then it went to spyderco and benchmade knives, now it's going to be surefire flashlights.... I have an expensive taste.


----------



## bobbar (Aug 26, 2012)

I have never owned one. But i have used there cr123s


----------



## mega_lumens (Aug 26, 2012)

ABTOMAT said:


> They did, with the P-series-compatible lights. I just wish SF hadn't gotten away from the modular approach. Even the 2004 catalog has pages devoted to "unlike other manufacturers, Surefire lets you assemble your light just the way you want it." I wonder if the marketing or engineering director behind that was replaced along the line.


 I don't know what their P series LED modules are like today, but they have not impressed me in the passed. I would want to see modular LED platform using their TIR optics heads.


----------



## ABTOMAT (Aug 26, 2012)

mega_lumens said:


> I don't know what their P series LED modules are like today, but they have not impressed me in the passed. I would want to see modular LED platform using their TIR optics heads.



Their P60 LED modules are pretty bad in my experience. The lights that take them are great, though, and I wish they'd kept developing the interchangeable parts and heads.


----------



## fishndad (Aug 26, 2012)

nope!!

I have a solarforce L2P and its basically the exact same thing.


----------



## ABTOMAT (Aug 26, 2012)

fishndad said:


> nope!!
> 
> I have a solarforce L2P and its basically the exact same thing.



Reminds me. As I type this I have a brand new, unused Solarforce tape switch tailcap that has both a dead connector and a tape switch which is broken and shorted out internally. I hope their 6P copies are better.


----------



## Monocrom (Aug 26, 2012)

fishndad said:


> nope!!
> 
> I have a solarforce L2P and its basically the exact same thing.



I have a handful of SureFire 6Ps, and used to own a Solarforce clone. Gave the clone away. Flashlights are a lot like watches. There are some really good-looking cheap watches, on the outside. The difference in quality becomes apparent when you check out what's on the inside. Taking a close look inside the clone, found the quality to be lacking. Not even close to the exact same thing.


----------



## Dr. Strangelove (Aug 26, 2012)

fishndad said:


> nope!!
> 
> I have a solarforce L2P and its basically the exact same thing.



Obviously you've never had the opportunity to compare a L2P to a 6P. I have both. While the L2P is OK for the price, it's like Monochrome says, they're not even close.


----------



## Quiksilver (Aug 26, 2012)

6PX Pro

6P

E1B

Saint

--

Purchased in that order. Only one I regret was the first one. Still a great light, but redundant now with Malkoff drop-ins.


----------



## Search (Aug 26, 2012)

Multiple, and I mean multiple of G2, G3, G2L, 6P, 6PL


E2E
E1B
E2DL (a single mode  It was from the first batch made and they had an electrical issue that rendered it with only the high mode, but I loved that)
LX2
M3
M4
M6LT
Z2L

My want list is huge.

I used most of them while on duty, and broke quite a few from other manufacturers, but won't name names. Some really popular brands don't hold up.


----------



## ARA (Aug 26, 2012)

Got into flashlights in 2009 and got my first Surefire in 2010. Now own the following. 


G2
G2Z
Z2
C2
U2 
M6
M6LT


----------



## Combatmp (Aug 27, 2012)

I love surefires. I currently own several M961s and M951s, a X200A and an E2E. 

I had a M951 on my M4 overseas, and that light is currently on my HD AR15. :naughty:


----------



## fishndad (Aug 27, 2012)

LOL im just messing with you guys.
Yea surefire is awesome no doubt.
But my $25. solarforce ant too shabby for the price.


----------



## Mr.Sun (Aug 27, 2012)

Two weapons lights....... One on my supressed PS90 SBR, one on my FN Herstal SLP. A Fury in my desk and a M2 in my gun box on my bedside table. I like 'em fine, bought my first 'bout 4 years ago.


----------



## andrewmac (Aug 27, 2012)

I have a surefire or two laying around....


----------



## Dr. Strangelove (Aug 27, 2012)

fishndad said:


> LOL im just messing with you guys.
> Yea surefire is awesome no doubt.
> But my $25. solarforce ant too shabby for the price.



😄

But someday, when you least expect it, you'll see a SureFire on the marketplace for just the right price, and then you'll be hooked, just like one of your fish...

I know this from first hand experience. I sold my 6P a couple of weeks ago, now I have another one arriving Wednesday, along with a Malkoff M61LL. Oh well...


----------



## jamesmtl514 (Aug 27, 2012)

I've owned...alphabetically


3P x3
6P x2
9P
A2L
E1b x2
E1e x4
E1e- x2
E2e
E2d
E2dL x2
C2
C3 x2
G2 x3
M1
M4
M6 x2
Saint
Plenty parts and I'm sure I'm missing quite a few...

Plus titanium delta knife and pen.


----------



## Brasso (Aug 27, 2012)

Currently:

9P Bored to 18mm with a zero res tailcap and the 400 lumen lumens factory bulb.
6P Body
G2L 120 lumen yellow
G2Z with an M60 that I carry for duty
2x E1L
E2L-AA

Have had:

4 L1's
2 E2L's
3 A2's
1 A2L
1 Titan
2 E1B's
2 L2's
1 LX2
6P
2 C2's
G3L
2 E2E's

If Malkoff ever makes a multi mode drop-in....the used E series market will dry up overnight.


----------



## brianna (Aug 28, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> Yeah, we know that CPF is pro-Surefire circlejerk, no need to remind everyone about that.
> There are budget (budget compared to Surefire, which includes Fenix, Jetbeam, 4Sevens, etc) lights that are just as reliable as Surefire lights, and offer much better functionality.



Nothing you mentioned even comes close to the quality and reliability of a Surefire. These lights are not even worthy enough to be mentioned in the same sentence as a Surefire.


----------



## apache blue (Aug 28, 2012)

I've lost count of the times i've had one in my shopping basket then cancelled the order. One half of me wants to see what all the fuss is about, the other half sees the price lol. I think the main appeal of surefires seems to be as a bombproof host which i totally get but i just can't quite get my head around the price compared to just buying something ready made from one of our well known modders.
Please don't take this as a bash, to each there own and i dare say if i was more technically minded and they were more reasonably priced here) i would jump on the s/f bandwagon too


----------



## jrmcferren (Aug 28, 2012)

I have a Surefire G2 that I purchased back in February. I've run 22 cells through it and I'm still on the factory lamp assembly.


----------



## Empire (Aug 28, 2012)

jrmcferren said:


> I have a Surefire G2 that I purchased back in February. I've run 22 cells through it and I'm still on the factory lamp assembly.


THAT IS AMAZING


----------



## jrmcferren (Aug 28, 2012)

Empire said:


> THAT IS AMAZING



That's is 11 battery changes overall considering it takes two cells to run.


----------



## Dingle1911 (Aug 28, 2012)

I own several. An LX2 is typically my EDC. I will probably purchase others in the future.


----------



## mikesantor (Aug 28, 2012)

Thanks to CPF I got into flashlights with the SF P clones. Soon found out what a lot of you are sayings here. No matter how much I WANT to think my 15 dollar Chinese knock off is the same quality as the SF, it dosnt compete. So now I have:

E1E-HA Bored to 18mm with Bored bezel with XML.
E2E-HA Bored to 18mm
X300 with over 10k rounds on it. 
G2
And as of yesterday, thanks to Oveready, A SICK new C2-HA bored to 18mm with a HA cryos cooling bezel. 

And to hold me over until I have the cash for more authentic SF goodies:

(2) FM 18650 SS bodies.
(1) FM 6P clone body with SF bezel and tail.
(1) FM M6 clone Megalennium. 

Looking to add a XPG G2 triple E2E to my collection if I can find someone to do the mod Cough Cough.

Yea, I love SF...

Yea, I love CPF...


----------



## Monocrom (Aug 28, 2012)

apache blue said:


> I've lost count of the times i've had one in my shopping basket then cancelled the order. One half of me wants to see what all the fuss is about, the other half sees the price lol. I think the main appeal of surefires seems to be as a bombproof host which i totally get but i just can't quite get my head around the price compared to just buying something ready made from one of our well known modders.
> Please don't take this as a bash, to each there own and i dare say if i was more technically minded and they were more reasonably priced here) i would jump on the s/f bandwagon too



There's a huge difference between Price vs. Value. 

But as far as only price is concerned, now is the time to pick up any of SureFire's discontinued inca. models brand new, at excellent prices. If you wait, they'll all be gone.


----------



## Flying Turtle (Aug 28, 2012)

Yes, a last gen. L1, thanks to a good friend who knew I was too cheap to get one for myself. Great light!

Geoff


----------



## ABTOMAT (Aug 28, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> There's a huge difference between Price vs. Value.
> 
> But as far as only price is concerned, now is the time to pick up any of SureFire's discontinued inca. models brand new, at excellent prices. If you wait, they'll all be gone.



I think new SF's sometimes are a questionable value, but used ones are great. Same warranty, fraction of the price for older models.


----------



## Rafael Jimenez (Aug 28, 2012)

I once ordered a 9an commander from shurefire, rechargeable,200.00 on special. A short time latter the discontinued it, and now its hard to find bulbs and batteries.
I will never buy from Surefire again.
I am happy with my VPT2 (Varapower) my magcharger with terralux, my pelican 8060 and my fenix LD 20.


----------



## yellow (Aug 29, 2012)

You re unlucky, as You started at a time a heavy change has been done.
the 9N (I have it since the early 90s) simply was the no.1 best light surefire offered
together with homemade, real powerful, battery sticks, a kickass part
 

In 2004 the 18650 modded 6P with an XR-E sent it back to shelf queen and now the led are even more powerful/effcient

... Keep the 9N, its a nice piece, but use other lights. The 6P format is this good for modding/updating, that it cant be ignored.


----------



## cland72 (Aug 29, 2012)

Rafael Jimenez said:


> I once ordered a 9an commander from shurefire, rechargeable,200.00 on special. A short time latter the discontinued it, and now its hard to find bulbs and batteries.
> I will never buy from Surefire again.
> I am happy with my VPT2 (Varapower) my magcharger with terralux, my pelican 8060 and my fenix LD 20.



Unfortunately you got a hold of one of those lights that didn't gain a lot of popularity... The Surefire rechargeable platforms seem to come and go without much lasting support. 

However, if you get the chance to pick up a 6P, 9P, Z2, C2, etc (P60 hosts) I would strongly encourage you to give it a shot. I have lights with more modes and features, but I always end up reaching for a P series light with a Malkoff drop in when I absolutely, positively need to light up every MFer in the room :thumbsup:


----------



## mikesantor (Aug 29, 2012)

cland72 said:


> when I absolutely, positively need to light up every MFer in the room :thumbsup:



Accept no substitutes. :thumbsup:


----------



## Landshark99 (Aug 29, 2012)

I own and have owned a number of Surefires


----------



## sidecross (Aug 29, 2012)

I have six Surefire lights and will not sell any.

They have always worked and are solidly built.

I am using the newer lights with the option of 18650 batteries, but if in a needed situation where I needed a proven light I would today take one of my Surefire's and a bunch of their 123 batteries. :thumbsup:


----------



## Monocrom (Aug 29, 2012)

cland72 said:


> Unfortunately you got a hold of one of those lights that didn't gain a lot of popularity... The Surefire rechargeable platforms seem to come and go without much lasting support.
> 
> However, if you get the chance to pick up a 6P, 9P, Z2, C2, etc (P60 hosts) I would strongly encourage you to give it a shot. I have lights with more modes and features, but I always end up reaching for a P series light with a Malkoff drop in when I absolutely, positively need to light up every MFer in the room :thumbsup:



An excellent point. A 9AN Commander (I also own one) is a lot like buying a 1972 Mustang II, restoring it to its stock condition . . . And then getting upset because it lacks performance and speed. It's still a Mustang though.


----------



## ABTOMAT (Aug 29, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> An excellent point. A 9AN Commander (I also own one) is a lot like buying a 1972 Mustang II, restoring it to its stock condition . . . And then getting upset because it lacks performance and speed. It's still a Mustang though.



That's not quite an accurate comparison. You can still buy tires and gas for a '72 Mustang. Surefire's rather drastically cut back consumables support for older lights. Like guys with old Turboheads are SOL now.


----------



## Shadowww (Aug 29, 2012)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> Obviously you've never had the opportunity to compare a L2P to a 6P. I have both. While the L2P is OK for the price, it's like Monochrome says, they're not even close.



I had the opportunity to compare L2P to 6P, the only major difference I noticed was that 6P didn't supported 18650 batteries. Otherwise, they both look & feel almost identical.. Especially when they have same drop-ins inside.


----------



## Monocrom (Aug 29, 2012)

ABTOMAT said:


> That's not quite an accurate comparison. You can still buy tires and gas for a '72 Mustang. Surefire's rather drastically cut back consumables support for older lights. Like guys with old Turboheads are SOL now.



A good point. 

I was a bit surprised at the size of the 9AN when I received it. (Bought it used, online.) Was expecting something about the size of a 9P. Turned out to be bigger. About the size of a 2C [email protected] but with a slightly narrower bezel.


----------



## Monocrom (Aug 29, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> I had the opportunity to compare L2P to 6P, the only major difference I noticed was that 6P didn't supported 18650 batteries. Otherwise, they both look & feel almost identical.. Especially when they have same drop-ins inside.



Shine a light inside. I did.

Machining, weld marks, and tool marks in general between the two were very distinctive. 

Once again, even a cheaply-made watch or any other product can look and feel as good as its quality counterpart; on the outside.


----------



## BIGLOU (Aug 29, 2012)

This thread is no good without photos. I have gained quite a collection since joining CPF. I got most of these on CPFMP. None are stock, if the head is able to come off it's getting a drop-in. I have the MD M60, M61 and the M91 all of Nailbenders XML flavors and most of all my lights rock an 18650 or 17670 (G2, Fury, 6PX/G2X), most have teeth or/and some clip. Got a MD2, Cryos bezels, a couple of OR and FM parts in the mix. The best part of SF is the LEGO ability.


----------



## skyfire (Aug 30, 2012)

BIGLOU said:


> This thread is no good without photos. I have gained quite a collection since joining CPF. I got most of these on CPFMP. None are stock, if the head is able to come off it's getting a drop-in. I have the MD M60, M61 and the M91 all of Nailbenders XML flavors and most of all my lights rock an 18650 or 17670 (G2, Fury, 6PX/G2X), most have teeth or/and some clip. Got a MD2, Cryos bezels, a couple of OR and FM parts in the mix. The best part of SF is the LEGO ability.



:twothumbs that makes me really want a SF display case!!! my surefires are just scattered everywhere:sigh:


----------



## Mikeg23 (Aug 30, 2012)

BIGLOU said:


> This thread is no good without photos.



I like the Lego guy in there!


----------



## sidecross (Aug 30, 2012)

Any of you who are old enough to remember when Schwinn was the best bicycle to own and only Columbia bicycles were second tier USA made bicycles.

I hope Surefire does not become today’s version of a Schwinn.


----------



## cland72 (Aug 30, 2012)

BIGLOU said:


> This thread is no good without photos.



Agreed. My new to me M6 that I just picked up from the post office:


----------



## Mikeg23 (Aug 30, 2012)

mikesantor said:


> E1E-HA Bored to 18mm with Bored bezel with XML.
> E2E-HA Bored to 18mm



That's cool!


----------



## yellow (Aug 30, 2012)

BIGLOU said:


> This thread is no good without photos.


correct








someone might notice the homemade bodies for the 9Ns, making them way more useful (= because getting shorter)


----------



## Shadowww (Aug 30, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Shine a light inside. I did.
> 
> Machining, weld marks, and tool marks in general between the two were very distinctive.
> 
> Once again, even a cheaply-made watch or any other product can look and feel as good as its quality counterpart; on the outside.



Uh, I don't care how it looks inside at all. It's a flashlight, not a storage case for diamonds. Only my batteries are allowed to ***** about flashlight's insides, but they're quiet for some reason


----------



## Rafael Jimenez (Aug 30, 2012)

yellow said:


> You re unlucky, as You started at a time a heavy change has been done.
> the 9N (I have it since the early 90s) simply was the no.1 best light surefire offered
> together with homemade, real powerful, battery sticks, a kickass part
> 
> ...



I would like to know if it would be posible to instal a LED in it. Maybe where the bulb goes? It is very well made, and very solid but I feel the Surefire people knew that they where selling me an item soon to be discontinued, and that makes mad, so if I cant mod it I would gladly sell it.


----------



## TKC (Aug 30, 2012)

*Yup, still do.*


----------



## dash13 (Aug 30, 2012)

Of course, i'm a flashlight newbie but i can already tell I love the surefires.

Scout M600c
Lumamax LX2
X300
G2

I love them all, and intend to add many more to the collection

D


----------



## Monocrom (Aug 31, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> Uh, I don't care how it looks inside at all. It's a flashlight, not a storage case for diamonds. Only my batteries are allowed to ***** about flashlight's insides, but they're quiet for some reason



Not about looks. It's about quality. 

I enjoy owning lights that can be beat to Hell, and just yawn at the abuse. It was clear that the 6P Solarforce clone I owned wouldn't be able to cut it, if I truly needed to rely on it. When it comes to that level of quality, if I absolutely need it to work, I grab one of my SureFires or one of my older Inova models (before the brand was bought by Nite-Ize).


----------



## yellow (Aug 31, 2012)

Rafael Jimenez said:


> I would like to know if it would be posible to instal a LED in it. Maybe where the bulb goes?


I can give You theory, but I have never dared to try the mod ...
also because I did not see any use in it, after having the 6P modded to 18650. The 8X/9N only are way bigger and heavier pieces of metal not giving any advantage 
((especially when using the original battery sticks)) 

the whole bulb holding part could be made from aluminium - enough space and mass to get the heat away.
Position of the led on some "rod" part to be measured/tried 
cut some space out at the "bottom" to have place to enter a driver.

... just as it were a typical insert but without the reflector...


----------



## Shadowww (Aug 31, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Not about looks. It's about quality.
> 
> I enjoy owning lights that can be beat to Hell, and just yawn at the abuse. It was clear that the 6P Solarforce clone I owned wouldn't be able to cut it, if I truly needed to rely on it. When it comes to that level of quality, if I absolutely need it to work, I grab one of my SureFires or one of my older Inova models (before the brand was bought by Nite-Ize).



How exactly was it "clear"? In terms of abuse handling, my L2P has been dropped on concrete from ~30ft once and nothing happened to it (but battery failed.. I think the protection circuit got physically broken), also had tons of 3-5 ft drops, still lives just fine.


----------



## Monocrom (Aug 31, 2012)

The silver solder used inside the Solarforce, along with the poor way it was applied, was one of the biggest tells. Not the only one though. 

The overall workmanship was very disappointing when I took a closer look. Did I expect SureFire level quality when I bought the Solarforce? No. 

Did I expect the quality to be better than what I got? Yes.


----------



## Shurefire (Aug 31, 2012)

As an owner of 7 or 8 surefire duty lights, I can say I am a big fan, so much so that my handle is a variation of the name. The only failures I have had are over volting a p60 unit (I thought 9 volts would make it brighter!) and my g2x not liking my 17670 AW battery after sitting in a hot car on a hot Arizona day (make that two days in a row). It still works on cr123's without a problem, but I have to turn the 17670 a certain way for it to work. No big deal though. 

I just bought another one today as well.


----------



## Shadowww (Aug 31, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> The silver solder used inside the Solarforce, along with the poor way it was applied, was one of the biggest tells. Not the only one though.


Uh. We're discussing hosts. Since when hosts have any solder?
Also, mind explaining how exactly workmanship was disappointing? Maybe it was just your $ureFir€ fanboyism making you disappointed by the fact it doesn't has $ureFir€ logo on it?..


----------



## nbp (Aug 31, 2012)

Last time I checked this thread wasn't titled "How's Solarforce's Quality?". Start a new thread if you want to compare hosts, this one just asked if you own SFs.


----------



## Allen207 (Aug 31, 2012)

When I was first hired 25 years ago, there were 2 flashlights in use. Huge and heavy Maglights and Streamlights or small and weak mini mags. The Surefire 6p came along and changed everything (at least that is how it seemed to me back then). I still own my first 6p. I have changed the module, but everything else is stock. I have dropped it in streams, bashed it off of door frames, etc, etc. Not as shiny as it used to be, but is still runs like a top.


----------



## Shadowww (Aug 31, 2012)

nbp said:


> Last time I checked this thread wasn't titled "How's Solarforce's Quality?". Start a new thread if you want to compare hosts, this one just asked if you own SFs.



Funny fact: abbreviation for SolarForce is "SF". We're discussing SF's here.


----------



## Mikeg23 (Aug 31, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> Funny fact: abbreviation for SolarForce is "SF". We're discussing SF's here.



I assure you that's no coincidence!


----------



## ARA (Aug 31, 2012)

I'd hate to see this thread closed down. Lets stick to the OP please.


Surefires' offer great satisfaction for me. I'm not too impressed with the new offerings aesthetics but nonetheless they still are reliable and quality lights. They are expensive but the reliability factor is still the deciding factor for me, Ive been disappointed a number of times with the fancy multi mode lights to trust them anymore. For me its always like its not a question of if but rather when they act up on you.

Nothing like a surefire paired with a Malkoff dropin. Matched for each other.
I'll keep on adding them to my stable 

cheers


----------



## ZRXBILL (Aug 31, 2012)

On topic.....No I haven't owned a SureFire.


----------



## GunnarGG (Aug 31, 2012)

I have 3 Surefires. 6P, C2 and G2X pro.
Most of the time I use smaller multimode lights but the G2X Pro with 2 modes is a very good "walk the dog" light.
The 6P is my favourite. I love the design and the way it feels in the hand. It has a Malkoff M61WL inside and runs an AW17670.
There are no doubts that this is a reliable light. (more than I need actually )

Shado: Any specific reason you started this thread?
Will we soon see pictures of an amazing Surefire collection?


----------



## Monocrom (Aug 31, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> Uh. We're discussing hosts. Since when hosts have any solder?
> Also, mind explaining how exactly workmanship was disappointing? Maybe it was just your $ureFir€ fanboyism making you disappointed by the fact it doesn't has $ureFir€ logo on it?..



Now that is amusing. Take a closer look or ask another veteran member about my SureFire fan-boyism.

Actually, let me save you the trouble. I'm known as one of if not the biggest SureFire critics on all of CPF. Don't take my word for it. Feel free to look back over my previous posts in other SureFire related topics. It's there in black and white. I once had a dumb racist tell me to go back to India. Sad that he couldn't tell the difference between skin color and my sun tan. I found that amusing too.

You might be talking about using a light as a host. I wasn't. My comments regarding solder had to do with the entire light. Tailcap, barrel (body) head, bezel, and yes; the Solarforce drop-in that came with the 6P clone.


----------



## Kestrel (Aug 31, 2012)

Please note that this thread is about SureFires. Post #1:



shado said:


> It's been a few years and a bunch of lights since I started collecting. After reading a thread this evening it occured to me, I've never owned a SureFire. Have you?




While I enjoy a good *SureFire* vs. *SolarForce* debate as much as the next fellow green, we do have other threads for that.
... most of them closed. 

Best regards,


----------



## FPSRelic (Sep 1, 2012)

Kestrel said:


> Please note that this thread is about SureFires. Post #1:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lets take the hint people! 

As someone said, this post need's pics. Here's one I posted in the Surefire Collection thread:


----------



## walterr839 (Sep 1, 2012)

Two M6's
two aviators with calypsol rings
One U 2 ultra


----------



## Filjos (Sep 1, 2012)

I've owned two. I don't see what the big deal is. The quality may be better than the imports like Fenix, etc; but, call me a cheapskate, I just don't like to spend the kind of money that one for their lights commands. And until recently, they seemed to always lag behind the imports in technology. I'd rather get two or three other lights for what I would pay for one Surefire.

Although I do like their pump shotgun fore-end light.


----------



## cland72 (Sep 1, 2012)

Filjos said:


> I've owned two. I don't see what the big deal is. The quality may be better than the imports like Fenix, etc; but, call me a cheapskate, I just don't like to spend the kind of money that one for their lights commands. And until recently, they seemed to always lag behind the imports in technology. I'd rather get two or three other lights for what I would pay for one Surefire.
> 
> Although I do like their pump shotgun fore-end light.



Which two? 

Posted using Tapatalk on my HTC Evo


----------



## rotncore (Sep 1, 2012)

Owned several, sold a few too. Still have the Fury, E1B, 6P, G2Z, Saint Minimus, and lastest gen L1. And a 318LM lives on my shotgun. I just sold my E2dl to an armed forces member in Afghanistan.

I have Fenix lights, 4Sevens, and while nice (they compete well in the single cell pocket light category for me, and I get far less anxious loaning them), they don't have that same heft, quality of threading, and knurling that just grabs you. The P60 compatible lights are upgradable, and for me that represents great value, because they don't go obsolete, and in the long term you can stay current with new LEDs for less cash.


----------



## Rafael Jimenez (Sep 1, 2012)

Could I use the part I already have? Remove the high bulb and place the led there? Leave the low bulb alone. Maybe see if the driver could be fited in somehow?


----------



## firelord777 (Sep 1, 2012)

If I ever owned one?

Ha, I've never even seen a sure fire in real life ever since I took my first breath of life.

In short, nope


----------



## Vortus (Sep 2, 2012)

A few G2's in the cars as glovebox lights.


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## cancow (Sep 2, 2012)

Surefires markup must be huge. Why else do u think stores like Cabelas do not carry competing brands?


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## cland72 (Sep 2, 2012)

Because nobody can compete with surefire 

Oh, and to stay compliant with this thread, yes I own a surefire, just bought a M6 last week.


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## JohnnyBravo (Sep 2, 2012)

Yes, and still do. I bought a 9P around 1996/1997. Around 2000-2003 I bought the 200 lumens P91 OEM bulb. But after a power outage and continuous usage, the OEM plastic lens melted. Called c/s and they sent out a replacement bezel w/ a glass lens... Nice.


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## Monocrom (Sep 2, 2012)

cancow said:


> Surefires markup must be huge. Why else do u think stores like Cabelas do not carry competing brands?



Cabela's carries Streamlight, LED Lenser, and a couple of other brands besides SureFire.


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## cancow (Sep 2, 2012)

Exactly, none of the competition in that price range.



Monocrom said:


> Cabela's carries Streamlight, LED Lenser, and a couple of other brands besides SureFire.


----------



## CLHC (Sep 2, 2012)

shado said:


> It's been a few years and a bunch of lights since I started collecting. After reading a thread this evening it occured to me, I've never owned a SureFire. Have you?


Sure! They're spread out here and there with more than quite a few lost and stolen. No regrets purchasing/owning SureFire Flashlights.


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## tjswarbrick (Sep 2, 2012)

I've got 3:

G2z with M61WL,
6P with M61W and McClicky,
C2 with M61 219 and McClicky.

3 of my favorite lights - if you don't need, or want, multiple modes, I can't recommend them highly enough.


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## nbp (Sep 3, 2012)

cancow said:


> Exactly, none of the competition in that price range.



What competing brands are you thinking of? 

And what does it have to do with whether people own/have owned SFs?


----------



## Rat (Sep 3, 2012)

Hey I own one or two Surefire lights and just love them. 
One of the many things I like about them is all the cool mods you can do to them. 
Thanks to all the great people around the world making some great add on parts you guys rule.
It's a bit like owning a cool car and purchasing aftermarket parts for it. Just adds a bit more buzz to the hobby.

I have now sold most of my other band lights exculsive SF forever :thumbsup: and a few Custom's

I have a pic :naughty:





Somebody gave this NIB LT2 to me with a Surefire purchase I never did know what to do with it 

Hey I can now post a pic of my Solarforce in the Show your Solarforce Part II thread :devil:

cheers


EDIT: for email subscribe to this thread.


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## BIGLOU (Sep 3, 2012)

Rat I love that photo. Epic! Now we need the one of a Surefires knurreling (sp?) filing down on an inferior light.


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## Kestrel (Sep 3, 2012)

BIGLOU said:


> Rat I love that photo. Epic! Now we need the one of a Surefires knurreling (sp?) filing down on an inferior light.



At your service. 

So... Can a Surefire REALLY saw through another flashlight?




underdust said:


> [...] It took about 45-50 minutes of constant grinding, cramped hands, and listening to that horrible noise , but I finally saw what appeared to be a small hole in the side of the Mini-Mag. You can see it in the lower right area of the scar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## BIGLOU (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks for the photo Kestrel. That L4 still looks great. My most worn 6P knurrelling has about the same wear.


----------



## allan d (Sep 3, 2012)

Yes,

G2 M61L
G2 M61WL
6P M61
9P M61SHO


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## Filjos (Sep 3, 2012)

cland72 said:


> Which two?



An e2 (I don't remember which model exactly, just that it was a two cell E series, I think) and a G2 Nitrolon.


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## Monocrom (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks, Kestrel.

You illustrated why I can't stand the new smoother, kinder, gentler, SureFire bodies. 

How are we supposed to saw through metal with the new ones? :shakehead


----------



## fyrstormer (Sep 3, 2012)

I remember when Muyshondt did a similar test, using a Nautilus (or was it an Aeon) as a makeshift rotary bit to cut through a Maglite. The problem with that test is the same problem with the test shown above: the wear is concentrated on one point on the Maglite, but it's spread across the a much larger surface on the Surefire. For the test to be fair, both lights would need to be spinning, at right-angles to each other, and see which one wears-through first. Or at least the setup would need to be reversed, with the Maglite having a chance to try to cut through the Surefire in return.

I'm still pretty sure it would fail, but the results would be much more evenly-matched.


----------



## Kestrel (Sep 3, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> I remember when Muyshondt did a similar test, using a Nautilus (or was it an Aeon) as a makeshift rotary bit to cut through a Maglite. The problem with that test is the same problem with the test shown above: the wear is concentrated on one point on the Maglite, but it's spread across the a much larger surface on the Surefire. For the test to be fair, both lights would need to be spinning, at right-angles to each other, and see which one wears-through first. Or at least the setup would need to be reversed, with the Maglite having a chance to try to cut through the Surefire in return.
> 
> I'm still pretty sure it would fail, but the results would be much more evenly-matched.



If you would bother to actually read the referenced thread you would see that the test in question was also reversed.


----------



## nbp (Sep 3, 2012)

Rat said:


> Hey I own one or two Surefire lights and just love them.
> One of the many things I like about them is all the cool mods you can do to them.
> Thanks to all the great people around the world making some great add on parts you guys rule.
> It's a bit like owning a cool car and purchasing aftermarket parts for it. Just adds a bit more buzz to the hobby.
> ...




Awwwwweeeeesssssooooommmmeee!! :rock:


----------



## tam17 (Sep 4, 2012)

No, I haven't.

Sadly this thread is sliding from its original intent towards dissing other flashlight brands.

Cheers


----------



## mvyrmnd (Sep 4, 2012)

tam17 said:


> No, I haven't.
> 
> Sadly this thread is sliding from its original intent towards dissing other flashlight brands.
> 
> Cheers



It's bounced back from the brink a few times....


----------



## brianna (Sep 4, 2012)

I find it funny that most people who disrespect Surefire always complain about how expensive they are. I can get a china light that does this or that for so much less money. Every light will break, but a Surefire will rarely let you down. Tons of broken china light threads, but very few failures for a Surefire. 

I think jealousy is the real reason for most of the I hate Surefire threads. You simply can not afford it so you will do your best to throw poop. If you look at the marketplace. I am pretty sure you will be able to find the Surefire you always wanted at a price you can afford. Then you too can experience a Surefire, and finally understand why people are willing to pay the price for a really great light.


----------



## jorgen (Sep 4, 2012)

O
/[]\


----------



## mvyrmnd (Sep 4, 2012)

Maybe I spoke too soon!


----------



## brianna (Sep 4, 2012)

jorgen said:


> I own more than 50 flashlights most are made in the good ol' USA but I've never bought a Surefire light. they seem underpowered, outdated and overpriced. I attribute their popularity to their NRA endorsements rather than build quality and features.



So you own more then 50 mag light flashlights. And you think Surefire is underpowered, outdated, and over priced? This is just another sad I hate Surefire because I can't afford it reply.


----------



## Rat (Sep 4, 2012)

mvyrmnd said:


> Maybe I spoke too soon!



:laughing:


----------



## cland72 (Sep 4, 2012)

Here is a question to keep this thread semi on track: which is your favorite Surefire, if you've had the pleasure of owning one?

I'm kind of flaky on which one I like the most month to month, but right now I'm really digging my E1B.


----------



## Monocrom (Sep 4, 2012)

cland72 said:


> Here is a question to keep this thread semi on track: which is your favorite Surefire, if you've had the pleasure of owning one?



Latest Generation L1.

I had mine modded. But the truth is, even in stock form it's a fantastic light. Output numbers seem low. But specs. are often far from everything. Definitely true in the case of the L1.


----------



## jleedc (Sep 4, 2012)

I have not gotten one for me, I did send one to a friend in the Army. I will get one someday.


----------



## cland72 (Sep 4, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Latest Generation L1.
> 
> I had mine modded. But the truth is, even in stock form it's a fantastic light. Output numbers seem low. But specs. are often far from everything. Definitely true in the case of the L1.



The only reason I haven't jumped on a latest Gen L1 is because it has what looks to be an aspherical lens, and I hate the square style beam it creates (I once had a SF X200 and hated it). Is that the case on the newest L1, or is the beam pattern different?


----------



## Monocrom (Sep 4, 2012)

Definitely different. No square beam at all.

One thing I personally like about it is that, unlike every other single-CR123 light with a bezel-up carry clip, you can actually use the clip for what it was intended for. And the light isn't going to flop out of your pants pocket. Ironically, this is due to something that a lot of others have complained about. The fact that it's a bit too long for a light running off of one CR123 cell. Truth is, that extra bit of length also allows me to get a firm grip by being able to wrap all of my fingers around the light. The L1 is great in the hand. The extra bit of length is to accommodate the great U.I.

Plus, it's not that long. Not as though EDCing it in a pocket is going to be an issue. It's as long as a single-AA flashlight.


----------



## Up All Night (Sep 4, 2012)

cland72 said:


> The only reason I haven't jumped on a latest Gen L1 is because it has what looks to be an aspherical lens, and I hate the square style beam it creates (I once had a SF X200 and hated it). Is that the case on the newest L1, or is the beam pattern different?



Latest generation of this light uses the TIR, same beam profile as your E1B. 
I've been trying to acquire one myself but the two I've looked at had less than pleasing tints, plus the dealer wanted full retail. I was going to go back to see if an rcr123 would help boost the tint more to my liking, apparently others weren't as picky.....ALL GONE!!:mecry:
If you come across one and the package specs are 65 lumen high, 10 lumen low, that's the latest version.


----------



## ABTOMAT (Sep 4, 2012)

brianna said:


> So you own more then 50 mag light flashlights. And you think Surefire is underpowered, outdated, and over priced? This is just another sad I hate Surefire because I can't afford it reply.



You know, I own almost exclusively Surefires (and not to be a ****, but one of them's their most expensive product) and I really dislike China lights but you're coming across as poorly informed and elitist. I'm not even very current with the flashlight market and off the top of my head I can name:

Streamlight
HDS
Arc
Novatac
UKE
Xenonics
Peak LED
Barrel Service Products
ASP
Pentagonlight (dead)
Plus all the small custom makers.

I think there are a lot of people who hate on Surefire unreasonably, but there are also a lot of Surefire Koolaid drinkers who come across as equally misinformed. They make some good stuff and some questionable stuff. Not to mention their marketing and R&D departments seem to operate slightly detached from reality sometimes.


----------



## mvyrmnd (Sep 4, 2012)

ABTOMAT said:


> ... but you're coming across as poorly informed and elitist.



+1



> I think there are a lot of people who hate on Surefire unreasonably, but there are also a lot of Surefire Koolaid drinkers who come across as equally misinformed. They make some good stuff and some questionable stuff. Not to mention their marketing and R&D departments seem to operate slightly detached from reality sometimes.



Personally, I don't hate them, I just don't want one. Same as I don't want to eat mushrooms. Just not my thing.


----------



## Rat (Sep 4, 2012)

cland72 said:


> Here is a question to keep this thread semi on track: which is your favorite Surefire, if you've had the pleasure of owning one?
> 
> I'm kind of fla on which one I like the most month to month, but right now I'm really digging my E1B.



C2 is my fav by far.


----------



## ABTOMAT (Sep 4, 2012)

cland72 said:


> Here is a question to keep this thread semi on track: which is your favorite Surefire, if you've had the pleasure of owning one?
> 
> I'm kind of flaky on which one I like the most month to month, but right now I'm really digging my E1B.



My old U2 with the Luxeon V. I keep saying I'll replace it with something but I can't bring myself to do it. Such a great light.


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## Monocrom (Sep 4, 2012)

ABTOMAT said:


> I'm not even very current with the flashlight market and off the top of my head I can name:
> 
> Streamlight
> HDS
> ...



Just for the sake of clarity . . . A few too many Streamlight models Made in China. Though I do like the brand overall and think it's highly underrated on CPF. Novatac for all practical purposes is dead. Moved operations to China and stopped caring about making quality lights.


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## brianna (Sep 5, 2012)

ABTOMAT said:


> you're coming across as poorly informed and elitist. I'm not even very current with the flashlight market and off the top of my head I can name:
> 
> Streamlight
> HDS
> ...



I may be coming across as a elitist. However you are the one that is poorly informed giving us a long list of china lights.


----------



## Filjos (Sep 5, 2012)

ABTOMAT said:


> ... you're coming across as poorly informed and elitist.
> 
> I think there are a lot of people who hate on Surefire unreasonably, but there are also a lot of Surefire Koolaid drinkers who come across as equally misinformed. They make some good stuff and some questionable stuff. Not to mention their marketing and R&D departments seem to operate slightly detached from reality sometimes.



+1 to both points.


----------



## ABTOMAT (Sep 5, 2012)

brianna said:


> I may be coming across as a elitist. However you are the one that is poorly informed giving us a long list of china lights.



Those are all US-based companies who make some or all of their lights in the US. Light I said, I'm not up on the most current news.


----------



## jamesmtl514 (Sep 5, 2012)

favorite Surefire? hard to say, depends on the day. 
Most of the time, my e1b. or when i have it in e1d config with the EO-1R.
after that, M4 with SW01 cerakoted black with nailbender dropin.
or C2 with KT1 and MN60.
or C3 with M91W.
or C2 with M2 head and z59 with M60
or 3P with M31W.....

i'm pretty indecisive... especially since I love my A2L-red and E2DL so much..... and my M6 with MD60 plus my Saint and the original 9P with P91 that feels so good in my hand.


----------



## Mikeg23 (Sep 5, 2012)

Mikeg23 said:


> I've had 17 pass through my hands and currently have 8. For a long time an incandescent Surefire was about the only thing I would carry. With the "warm" and "HCRI" LEDs becoming more prevalent I find myself gravitating more towards Malkoff, but while I like the malkoff drop-ins I still prefer the Surefire body.
> That being said I don't see my self buying another Surefire until/unless the expand their HCRI line up.



Haha I said that and then turned right around a bought another Surefire 6P host. My favorite right now is the 6P I want to resurrect my e2e it hasn't seen much love in the last two years.


----------



## jorgen (Sep 5, 2012)

I may not speak my mind so no comment


----------



## Kestrel (Sep 5, 2012)

jorgen said:


> Nope, you are as wrong, again.
> I own one Mag, 3 Peak Night Patrols, 1 Ural, 3 Logans and several Eigers in addition to a Lenslight and some customs.
> I don't hate Surefire they simply haven't produced a light that suits me, Peak does and I'd be willing to match the output and durability of one of my Peaks against a comparable Surefire.
> I can accept that you and others support Surefire but you seem unable to see any, other than price, reasons for not doing so. I believe the term for this is "Pigheaded".


----------



## Kestrel (Sep 5, 2012)

Hello,
For all interested parties, please refrain from personal comments in this thread. Thank you.


----------



## Obsessed (Sep 5, 2012)

Coming from someone who owns 3 Surefires, I can say this. They are top quality. They are overpriced. They are NOT, I Repeat, NOT 100% Made in USA (they are either manufactured overseas/assembled here, or vice versa...I don't have the packaging in front of me to confirm), but they have to put it on the boxes now as they moved a part of their operation (again, not sure which) overseas. Either way they had to put on the box "...However, this product qualifies under the Buy Made in America Act"...if it was obvious, they wouldn't have to put that line there.


----------



## cland72 (Sep 5, 2012)

Obsessed said:


> Coming from someone who owns 3 Surefires, I can say this. They are top quality. They are overpriced. They are NOT, I Repeat, NOT 100% Made in USA (they are either manufactured overseas/assembled here, or vice versa...I don't have the packaging in front of me to confirm), but they have to put it on the boxes now as they moved a part of their operation (again, not sure which) overseas. Either way they had to put on the box "...However, this product qualifies under the Buy Made in America Act"...if it was obvious, they wouldn't have to put that line there.



Has this always been the case? Did the older 6P/G2/C2 lights have any outsourced parts? I'm sure the P60L models had an emitter and/or circuit board sourced from a foreign country, but what about the incan lamp models?


----------



## Obsessed (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm not sure. I've had my one SF 6P for awhile, and it says "Made in USA" stamped on the tailcap. My new 6P does not have that (although it's still an incan).

BTW the message reads: "Assembled in USA from Domestic and Foreign parts. This product qualifies as USA made under the Buy American Act."

Honestly, nothing is made 100% in the USA anymore. A recent article I read had a list of 2012's "Most American made cars." The Toyota (Yes, TOYOTA) Avalon got first place, with 85% of the parts being manufactured in the US (and it's assembled here, to boot). In fact, only 1 of the top 5 were "American," that being a Chevy Express.

Sorry for the rant, please continue...


----------



## ABTOMAT (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm not sure if the "Assembled in USA" label is due to them moving production, or a change in the laws regarding how "Made in" labels can be used. As far as I know their LED emitters and small electronics parts and such have come from Asia all along, and a lot of their incan lamps in years past were imported (Mexico?)


----------



## brianna (Sep 5, 2012)

Have you owned a Surefire? That is the name of this thread. Either you have or you have not. Any time a Surefire thread gets started, somebody has to find a way to bash Surefire. I honestly believe it have everything to do with jealousy or a financial situation that puts it out of reach for people that feel the need to spout off. So they trash talk to feel better about themselves. This is the reason just about every Surefire thread has some hostile comments in it.


----------



## cland72 (Sep 5, 2012)

brianna said:


> Have you owned a Surefire? That is the name of this thread. Either you have or you have not. Any time a Surefire thread gets started, somebody has to find a way to bash Surefire. I honestly believe it have everything to do with jealousy or a financial situation that puts it out of reach for people that feel the need to spout off. So they trash talk to feel better about themselves. This is the reason just about every Surefire thread has some hostile comments in it.



Dude, we're trying to steer the conversation in a positive path here, and when people keep posting stuff like this it's hard for the mods to justify keeping the thread open. 

Let's focus on positive aspects of Surefire ownership, and if you have not owned a Surefire, feel free to say why. Let's not argue about who's right or why someone is wrong...


----------



## Obsessed (Sep 5, 2012)

brianna said:


> Have you owned a Surefire? That is the name of this thread. Either you have or you have not. Any time a Surefire thread gets started, somebody has to find a way to bash Surefire. I honestly believe it have everything to do with jealousy or a financial situation that puts it out of reach for people that feel the need to spout off. So they trash talk to feel better about themselves. This is the reason just about every Surefire thread has some hostile comments in it.



I find it interesting you would even say this right now. I said I own 3 Surefires, and that they are overpriced (I am fully within the scope here to say that, which is reasoning why I don't own more of them). Just because it is not made in the US does not mean it's inferior; I think that is Americans being full of themselves. I'm American, and I'll tell anyone to their face American Made doesn't mean squat hardly in this world anymore. The Germans can build a better Car, the South Koreans can build a better TV/Blu Ray/Enter electronic component here, the French build better Airplanes, etc etc etc. American innovation and quality has went down in recent years and is simply riding on it's coattails. I think that has become evident in the auto industry in the last, say, 5 years. Even Hyundai and Kia, long considered inferior cars, are consistently outperforming US vehicles in Reliability, performance, and value.

As far as "only bashing Surefire because people can't afford them," I think is ridiculous as well; I'm a financial analyst by profession, and I can assure you I can afford a Surefire. Just because someone finds it silly to spend $400 on a flashlight a $100 flashlight does just as well, does not mean they are poor; it means they are wise.:wave:


----------



## Norm (Sep 5, 2012)

Why is every Surefire thread dragged off topic? especially when the topic here is so straight forward "Have you owned a SureFire?" back on topic please - Norm


----------



## Obsessed (Sep 5, 2012)

Norm said:


> Why is every Surefire thread dragged off topic? especially when the topic here is so straight forward "Have you owned a SureFire?" back on topic please - Norm



I think they are dragged "off topic" due to the fact it's a controversial manufacturer that strikes a nerve with everyone in one way or another (either for or against). It's like asking if you've ever been to an Ohio State/Michigan game. 

In regards to the OP, I have owned a total of 4 Surefires:

G2 Incan
LX2
6P LED
6P Incan, with Nichia dropin.

I keep the 6P LED in my car in case of emergencies, along with a pack of Primaries.:thumbsup:


----------



## Norm (Sep 5, 2012)

Obsessed said:


> I think they are dragged "off topic" due to the fact it's a controversial manufacturer that strikes a nerve with everyone in one way or another (either for or against). It's like asking if you've ever been to an Ohio State/Michigan game.


My question was rhetorical, I wasn't looking for an answer.

Norm


----------



## strat81 (Sep 5, 2012)

Of the eight lights I own, six are Surefire (all G2/6P variants). Of the remaining two, one is a Brinkmann Maxfire, the other is a Streamlight TLR-2. 

In those six Surefires is a variety of bulbs/emitters including P60, P60L, Malkoff M61L, Malkoff M61, and KX4.


----------



## ptnled (Sep 5, 2012)

I didn't have any either, I think it is uncessary when you are in the city.


----------



## beach honda (Sep 5, 2012)

I love my surefires. I wish I could afford more of them. I would love an M4-CB and a 6P with smoothie bezel and triad tailcap. I wish I had found my love for surefire earlier on in the game, maybe then I could own a few of Leefs amazing host bodies. Drooooool.

I am a huge fan of the earlier models. They were so much more militaristic and knurly lookin, if that makes any sense. Despite my blah attitude toward the newer gen surefires, I have my eyes set on the EB1 and wouldn't mind a UB3T Invictus.


----------



## ARA (Sep 6, 2012)

beach honda said:


> I love my surefires. I wish I could afford more of them. I would love an M4-CB and a 6P with smoothie bezel and triad tailcap. I wish I had found my love for surefire earlier on in the game, maybe then I could own a few of Leefs amazing host bodies. Drooooool.
> 
> *I am a huge fan of the earlier models. They were so much more militaristic and knurly lookin, if that makes any sense.* Despite my blah attitude toward the newer gen surefires, I have my eyes set on the EB1 and wouldn't mind a UB3T Invictus.




That pretty much sums up how i feel as well. The newer ones just seem to look uber cool.


----------



## Kestrel (Sep 6, 2012)

beach honda said:


> I am a huge fan of the earlier models. They were so much more militaristic and knurly lookin, if that makes any sense.



I agree with the above - I have over a dozen SF's and only one of those is still being produced (the T1A - and ironically I almost never use that one).
I very much enjoy using the older ones (just used one tonight in fact) and have little interest in the current models.


----------



## beach honda (Sep 6, 2012)

I am a HUGE fan of the P60 hosts. I mean, they are so customizable and excellent looking and feel so perfect in the hand. I never ventured into the executive lights, not because they didn't attract my attention, but because I was afraid of a side addiction! :devil: however, I absolutely LOVED my E1B. There is a picture floating around here somewhere showing the extreme signs of wear from constant use and carry, but NEVER a hiccup from that little light. I gifted it to a Canadian friend of mine and he uses it to this day.

Fanboy? No. Proponent? Yes! 
In my line of work, I find which tools work best and stick to them. Simple as that. TOOL grade tools!
Snap-On tools comes to mind. Until mine were stolen, that is what I used primarily while wrenching was still my profession. Did I buy Snap-On because of the name? No, I purchased because of the quality and warranty. Same goes for Glock, Spyderco, Maxpedition, Etc...

I only wish Paul Kim were still on the SureFire design team. Sigh...


----------



## BenChiew (Sep 6, 2012)

95% of my flashlights are Surefire.


----------



## bluebonnet (Sep 6, 2012)

Yes, use my R1 Lawman daily.


----------



## ABTOMAT (Sep 6, 2012)

beach honda said:


> I am a huge fan of the earlier models. They were so much more militaristic and knurly lookin, if that makes any sense.



This. And not just for looks. It's much easier to hold a knurled flashlight with wet/greasy/really dry hands than it is a smooth one. I sold my P2X Fury because I knew I'd keep dropping the thing. Some of Surefire's new tailcaps with the deep surface cuts work OK, but you really can't beat knurling. If Surefire made a light that was like an old-school E2E but with a 400-lumen LED head and a U2-style rotary selector I'd be all over it.

UB3T's hard to beat, even if it's not all knurly and awesome. As long as you can stand the size it'll do almost anything a flashlight can. The throw is unreal.


----------



## Mikeg23 (Sep 6, 2012)

ABTOMAT said:


> If Surefire made a light that was like an old-school E2E but with a 400-lumen LED head and a U2-style rotary selector I'd be all over it.



Holy crap!


----------



## KarlG (Sep 16, 2012)

My current Surefires are a 6PX Pro and 2PX Fury. They see almost constant use.


----------



## AirmanX (Sep 16, 2012)

Yes, I currently own two. I've had more in the past that have been sold, but currently I have the G2X Pro (tan) and E2D LED Defender. I plan on getting an R1 Lawman possibly. Waiting to find a good review.


----------



## Tomcat! (Sep 16, 2012)

Yes. 
1x E1e; 3x E2e; 1x G3; 1x G2; 1x 6P (now given to my brother as I try to convert him to the 'Light Side'); 1x 9P. I am also seriously contemplating an Oveready bored out C2. 

My favourites are the E series. Only one E2e is currently stock. When the SF lamp eventually dies I will switch to my current stock of Lumens Factory incan lamps. I EDC that in my bag. One is converted to LED with a Veleno tower single mode on 2x CR123. Perfect for short burst use at work. The other has a 3 mode Veleno, 1x 17670 and a McGizmo McClicky tail switch assembly.


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## jtblue (Oct 14, 2012)

mvyrmnd said:


> Most Surefires I see are designed for CR123 primaries, and they cost $10 *EACH* where I live. The ones that use rechargeables don't offer me anything I can't get for less money, or in a more attractive host (really, I don't find many of them very attractive).



Yeah CR123's are pricey here but they can be had cheap for as little as AUD$2.50 on ebay with free p&h


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## LEDMaster2003_V2 (Oct 14, 2012)

3 : U2 Digital Ultra, A2 Aviator (Incan w/Red), K2 Kroma. I'd love to have an M6 or their new Invictus.


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## walterr839 (Oct 14, 2012)

yes

three A2 Aviators, a U2 Ultra and two M6 Guardians with Will Quilles battery packs


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## bbrins (Oct 14, 2012)

I own four 6P's, all of them are bored out and McClickied, I edc one of these every day.


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## Glock 22 (Oct 14, 2012)

Yes I have owned several 6P's, 9P's, G2's, a couple of E1B's and E2DL's, and the Fury. And intend to own several more in the future. They are top notch and reliable. Looking forword to the EB1 if it ever comes out. If you don't own a Surefire then your missing out.


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## SimulatedZero (Oct 14, 2012)

I have not owned a Surefire, yet. Perhaps one day I shall own one. I have always been interested in a P60 style host with a Malkoff drop in. Something incredibly tough and reliable is just what I need. I do a lot of... well, let's go with exploring, and some of the places I go exploring are incredibly hostile to all of my gear. I just added another dent and ding to my TK15 when it slide down steel pipe and over a 8 ft drop to the concrete floor below. While I love my TK15 to death and have the utmost confidence in its abilities to survive those environments, it would be nice to have something that not only survives those environments, but shrugs them off with a yawn.


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## archimedes (Oct 14, 2012)

SimulatedZero said:


> I have not owned a Surefire, yet. Perhaps one day I shall own one. I have always been interested in a P60 style host with a Malkoff drop in. Something incredibly tough and reliable is just what I need .... it would be nice to have something that not only survives those environments, but shrugs them off with a yawn.



Might want to think about sourcing a C2-HA soon, before they all disappear....


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## TEEJ (Oct 14, 2012)

I've had a few SF lights, and was frankly underwhelmed with the performance. Now that so many other companies are making tough lights I can throw against a wall or off a scaffold and still work...the uniqueness of the SF's has faded.

Back when there were just mag lights, and those cheapo things you had to bang periodically to make them go on again, etc...a SF was pretty special. Now a days, you can get more for your money elsewhere most of the time.

I still buy them, because I'm a fan anyway out of respect for their past position, but, really, I think I only have ONE left that has not been transmogrified into a host for better internals.

The rest are all just hosts for better lighting systems now a days....as the bodies are as tough as they ever were at least.



The last one I bought was a Fury, which is not that bad a light really...the beam is almost as useful as my Klarus XT11, and its my only one in non-host use, as its good for leaving CR123 primaries in in the glove compartment of my wife's jeep.


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## RWT1405 (Oct 14, 2012)

Bought my first 3 SF's in 1995, 2 - 6P's and a 9P. Can't even imagine how many I've bought since, G2's, G3's, A2's, E1e's, E2e's, C2's, Z2's, G2Z's. Have to say that I don't like the newer stuff as much.

My .02 FWIW YMMV


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## Monocrom (Oct 14, 2012)

RWT1405 said:


> . . . Have to say that I don't like the newer stuff as much.
> 
> My .02 FWIW YMMV



I have to agree with you.

I'm suspecting that the Golden Age of SureFire just came to a close. Glad I got all of mine before it did. Hope other CPFers were as fortunate. I feel sorry for any new flashaholics coming into the fold.


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## Brasso (Oct 14, 2012)

The problem is their sourcing of led's. Let's face it. They use crap led's. It's just the truth. Not too many people want to pay their prices and get a crap led. I love Surefire. I have 7 of them. But their newer stuff really isn't up to snuff with their past products. Who want's to pay $250 for a T1A or an A2L with a blue main beam? As cool as the rest of the light is, the point of a flashlight is to make light. The quality of that light is kinda the most important part of the light. No? Now that they aren't even modular anymore, I see them losing more and more market share, especially with the prices they're putting on the new stuff.


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## Monocrom (Oct 14, 2012)

I believe military contracts are their main market. They're not likely to lose those anytime soon.

Truth is, we flashaholics get the leftovers.


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## Chris Pierce (Oct 14, 2012)

I own three at the moment. I'm sorry, but I don't really know the models. One is an aluminum 2 cr123a lights with an after market tail cap and an after market head (maybe a g6?). And two are plastic 2 cr123a lights (G2 G3?). I carry one (usually) and my wife carries the other. I used to have the same model and carried it eveyrday for a few years. I held up great. At the time I was working in Seattle as a fabricator on fishing boats, so it took a lot of abuse. Lots water, slag, grinder dust, molten metal etc. When I finally sold it there were bits of metal melted into it, but it still functioned perfectly. Now I will sometimes carry a fenix pd30 instead of my surefire.


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## Monocrom (Oct 15, 2012)

Sounds like a 6P and two G2 models. Though the polymer used in a G2 isn't some run-of-the-mill plastic.


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## Tracker II (Oct 15, 2012)

I got me three Surefires:

1) G2 Nitrolon with Malkoff M61LLL 219 Drop In. There is something about the quality and weight of a Malkoff drop-in in a G2 that makes it feel so much more substantial. Anyways, this is the "knockabout the house" light I will have for life. It will then be passed down to my son and eventually, his son.

2) P2X Fury. Yeah yeah, I know. It's not modular. It doesn't have knurling. It doesn't have springs on both ends of the battery. What it does have however is a great beam profile on high and low, a nice tint, and over 600 glorious lumens (as tested by a board member here). This is my least enjoyable Surefire to hold, but the one that brings the biggest smile to my face when I light it up. At just over $100, the smile factor alone makes it worth it.

2) Last but not least, a 6P for my son. Why? Because it's an invaluable piece of Americana that should be passed down to the next generation along with such other things like a Buck 110 knife. Oh, and I'm letting him pick out his own Malkoff drop-in for it so he can also pass down this killer combination to his son.


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## Glock 22 (Oct 15, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> I have to agree with you.
> 
> I'm suspecting that the Golden Age of SureFire just came to a close. Glad I got all of mine before it did. Hope other CPFers were as fortunate. I feel sorry for any new flashaholics coming into the fold.




I have to agree also. I like the older Surefire's, the newer one's I don't believe is as tough. You knowed if you dropped a 6P or a 9P that is was tough enough to withstand the fall. But these newer one's like my Fury I'm afraid where the head is cemented on what would happen if it were to take a good fall. Also you could mod the older style out, where the newer one's I would dare try. So the one's I got there staying put, and hopely I can get my hands on a few more.


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## iammiah (Oct 15, 2012)

Well my dad recently got a p2x fury, and it already looks slightly beat up. I've got an l6 and a c3 which has been around for many years, and they are barely scratched. The overall fit and finish seems to have dropped slightly too, the threading just doesn't feel as good now.


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## moozooh (Oct 15, 2012)

Re: OP question: I haven't. Here's why.

— Very combat-oriented UI that is impractical for most other purposes.
— Poor power efficiency and—last I checked—no output stabilization.
— Poor battery setup in most of the lineup—CR123 primaries are expensive and not easily found in rural areas, RCR123 are not as energy-dense as 18650 and not as common as NiMH.
— LED swaps are almost a given for up-to-date performance.

I haven't listed price as a downside because, even if priced evenly with the others, SureFire's TIR lenses are not worth the host of downsides (see the paragraph below on build quality). I'm looking for lights that are practical; i.e. usable for various applications in various situations. For instance, I wouldn't want to end up stranded with a light that eats through batteries even on the lowest output level. If I want a light that is madly durable above all else, I'll spend the money towards a titanium body custom that I expect to outlast HA aluminum any day.

Re: build quality, I know most users on this board are American, and SureFire is _the_ quintessential American flashlight brand, so a certain patriotic bias in comments on reliability and build quality is not exactly unexpected—but that's what makes this notion all the more interesting and inviting to be put to test—but in a way that would put SF's famed durability _into the perspective_ of other high-tier brands that aren't "as American". Anyone ever thought about a torture test covering a wide range of popular brands commonly advertised as well-built and reliable so that results would be comparable and, to a degree, repeatable? Such as SF vs. Fenix vs. 4Sevens vs. ThruNite vs. ZebraLight vs. Sunwayman vs. something like HDS as a reference, featuring salt water and dirt immersion, high and low temperature tests, impact and pressure resilience, vibration resilience, EM shock resilience perhaps? I bet something like that would put an end to many debates built around speculations on SureFires' durability and whether it's worth putting up with the downsides, including price. Singular cases, while curious, don't mean a lot when put out of the perspective. I'm sure many of the scientifically minded collectors would be interesting in donating lights for such a test.


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## Monocrom (Oct 15, 2012)

moozooh said:


> Re: build quality, I know most users on this board are American, and SureFire is _the_ quintessential American flashlight brand, so a certain patriotic bias in comments on reliability and build quality is not exactly unexpected—but that's what makes this notion all the more interesting and inviting to be put to test—but in a way that would put SF's famed durability _into the perspective_ of other high-tier brands that aren't "as American". Anyone ever thought about a torture test covering a wide range of popular brands commonly advertised as well-built and reliable so that results would be comparable and, to a degree, repeatable? Such as SF vs. Fenix vs. 4Sevens vs. ThruNite vs. ZebraLight vs. Sunwayman vs. something like HDS as a reference, featuring salt water and dirt immersion, high and low temperature tests, impact and pressure resilience, vibration resilience, EM shock resilience perhaps? I bet something like that would put an end to many debates built around speculations on SureFires' durability and whether it's worth putting up with the downsides, including price. Singular cases, while curious, don't mean a lot when put out of the perspective. I'm sure many of the scientifically minded collectors would be interesting in donating lights for such a test.



I've been on CPF long enough to have seen countless topics in which individual members have performed their own torture tests, pitting SureFire lights against the competition. SureFire's reputation for reliability and durability is well earned. Also, yeah; it is rather insulting to suggest that that reputation is simply the result of blind patriotism by American members on CPF. CPF is an international community, and there are many members who aren't American who choose to own SureFire lights. Plus, many of us American members own lights from competing brands that aren't American. My collection of SureFires is just a small percentage of my overall collection that includes Fenix, 4Sevens, Jet-Beam, Wolf-Eyes, Maratac, Pelican, Streamlight, etc. From what I've seen over the years on CPF, many of the other American members have numerous lights from non-American brands as well. 

You simply don't earn a reputation for fantastic reliability and durability if you make junk. You don't get military contracts if the lights you submit for testing cannot survive even a drop onto the ground. 

As for the other reasons you mentioned above for not owning a SureFire:

--- Not all SureFire models have a combat oriented U.I. I've honestly found a momentary-on / twist for constant-on tailcap switch to be very pragmatic for mundane lighting chores. For a short amount of use on an individual lighting task, it's not an issue to keep one's thumb on the tailcap switch. If it's a longer lighting job, twist the tailcap. But if one decides that set-up isn't ideal, SureFire does make forward-clicky tailcaps for their C-series of lights that normally come with momentary switches. Problem solved. Also, E-series SureFires come with forward-clickies as standard. 

--- If you want a general use flashlight, yes; there are SureFire models out there which are better at that task than others. It's not as though SureFire's entire line-up is made up of their 6P and variations of that model. As far as output stabilization . . . Do you mean regulation? Regardless, I've never had an issue with unstable output from any of my SureFires.

--- Poor battery set-up? Perhaps for you. Clearly SureFire's biggest customer base (Uncle Sam and his boys) would disagree. Also, I lost count how often this has been covered previously . . . If you want to save money on CR123 cells, never buy them in brick & mortar stores. Buy them online for a fraction of what they cost. Yes, they'll even ship them to rural addresses. SureFire recommends using CR123 primaries only. Individuals themselves use RCR123 cells with aftermarket lamps or bore out their SureFires for use with 18650s. A rechargeable set-up is not that hard to come up with. Plus, free lumens are free lumens whether you use RCR123 cells, 18650s, or NiMH. You buy the rechargeable cells, you buy the charger, you rotate them in your light, you don't buy new ones for a very long time. 

--- Using a SureFire light to house a high-performance drop-in is like using a Ford Mustang to house a high-performance, customized engine. You don't put the engine into a KIA Rio. You drop it into an already excellent performance car. Same with SureFire. You don't use a cheap piece of junk as a host. Also, yes; some flashaholics do prefer the natural warm tint of a top-quality incandescent lamp. I have several SureFires which are stock. If you're constantly chasing the latest & greatest (and brightest) LED you can get your hands on, that's not only a losing game but a horribly expensive one. LED technology advances faster than even computer technology. Also, last time I checked, it's not as though the world gets significantly darker every year, after the Sun goes down. A stock SureFire is more than capable of getting the job done. Or, you can use it as an excellent host for an excellent aftermarket drop-in. But it's not as though in stock form it's as anemics as a [email protected] Solitaire.


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## moozooh (Oct 15, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> I've been on CPF long enough to have seen countless topics in which individual members have performed their own torture tests, pitting SureFire lights against the competition. SureFire's reputation for reliability and durability is well earned.



Is there any index for such tests, or at least a list of threads to read through? Was the competition chosen to match the form factor and build materials of the SF tested, or was it random?



Monocrom said:


> a reputation for fantastic reliability and durability



My point is that reputation is a notion that was born and reinforced in the time where the only frame of comparison was "SureFire vs. brick-and-mortar store crap", and obviously SF, being a premium brand, was, quoting, "fantastically reliable and durable" _compared to that cheap crap_. SF didn't really become _worse_ over time either, so the notion is supported further by people who've come to expect a certain level of quality that SF still delivers. They've never had a chance to be disappointed with this brand simply because it does what they expect it to do.

But in the last four years the high performance flashlight market has experienced an unprecedented boom which flooded us with all kinds of heavy-duty lights made of the same kind of HA aluminum SF uses, as well as titanium, stainless steel and whatnot. SF is not the only reliable brand anymore, and I'm not at all interested in the past state of affairs; I'm trying to see how its famed reliability stack up directly against others in tests that make sense (that sawing thing linked earlier in this thread doesn't count, it's just silly). For instance, Petzl and Black Diamond, once the go-to brands for headlamps, haven't been able to keep up, and their reputation, once as high as SureFire's in applicable areas, has waned, but you can still see people who've come to expect a certain level of quality from them being perfectly satisfied, because they either don't know better, or don't care.

What I want to say here is, *I don't at all doubt SFs are as durable as aluminum flashlights get; I do doubt all the other brands* that tend to be quickly written off in discussions like this *are much worse in all respects, if at all.* I don't think we've reached the point at which one could claim a conclusive amount of evidence to that.



Monocrom said:


> Also, yeah; it is rather insulting to suggest that that reputation is simply the result of blind patriotism by American members on CPF.



I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm suggesting there is a bias by Americans in favor of American-made goods, with the general line of thought that goes "American equals quality, non-American is inferior" and is seen all too often. I wouldn't write off a brand simply because it's Chinese, as was done by some users earlier in the thread, which is how that bias manifests. I know for a fact that Chinese goods can be as good and durable as you want them to make it—which is used by certain non-Chinese brands that make designs in their own local headquarters but outsource manufacturing to China. (Of course, it's much easier to control manufacturing quality when your factory isn't located thousands of miles away and isn't filled with people who aren't necessarily qualified to do what they are expected to do.) For all it's worth, SureFire lights also have defects and build aspects of questionable quality, as is revealed by reading a few randomly picked threads, and yes, they also break. Just like other lights!



Monocrom said:


> You don't get military contracts if the lights you submit for testing cannot survive even a drop onto the ground.



Um, I'd actually expect military contracts only to be offered to domestic manufacturers, of which Maglite and SureFire are the only major ones—and Maglite hasn't released anything competitive for over a decade at the very least. Maybe I'm wrong, but a company like Fenix would never even stand a chance to be offered contracts for the USA army, simply because outsourcing military wares to another country doesn't make sense no matter how you think about it. SureFire wins by default here, as there's no competition in the first place. ZebraLight currently manufactures lights in China, and they don't have tactical models in their lineup, but maybe something will change when they release T3 and T5. We'll see! (I also seem to remember somebody saying something about ZL headlamps being used en masse where the person served, but I don't remember where I've seen it, and it's hardly conclusive anyway.)



Monocrom said:


> --- Not all SureFire models have a combat oriented U.I. I've honestly found a momentary-on / twist for constant-on tailcap switch to be very pragmatic for mundane lighting chores. For a short amount of use on an individual lighting task, it's not an issue to keep one's thumb on the tailcap switch. If it's a longer lighting job, twist the tailcap. But if one decides that set-up isn't ideal, SureFire does make forward-clicky tailcaps for their C-series of lights that normally come with momentary switches. Problem solved. Also, E-series SureFires come with forward-clickies as standard.
> 
> [...]
> 
> --- If you want a general use flashlight, yes; there are SureFire models out there which are better at that task than others. It's not as though SureFire's entire line-up is made up of their 6P and variations of that model.



Only a few of the models have more than two output levels. (The two being "eat through batteries in 1.5–2 hours" and "too low for general use, too high for light-sensitive use".) The few that do are alright for general use, but some have quirks of their own, such as accidental activation on the new UNR Commander (whoever thought protruding switches were a good idea?). And even then the lowest levels being upwards of 5 lumen on all (?) such lights are too high to be practical when you need an actually low output. I bet they're great for combat/intimidation, though, especially with that rapid strobe and all. Obviously if I were to choose a light with intention to use it in combat situations, SF would have ranked much higher.



Monocrom said:


> As far as output stabilization . . . Do you mean regulation? Regardless, I've never had an issue with unstable output from any of my SureFires.



Yeah, in a $300+ flashlight I'd expect a, say, 500-lumen mode to remain 500 lumen all the way through, not for the first half-hour. Only a few SFs do that, and only at lower modes. Why is it that Fenix or ThruNite or ZebraLight can do much better at less than half the price while maintaining the same runtime? Is it too much to ask? Is it so necessary to boast larger runtime numbers at the expense of user experience? Interestingly, this approach is characteristic for older companies who have to maintain their status quo against the capable competition, and it comes back to bite them in the buttocks when the palpable difference becomes hard to cover with numbers.



Monocrom said:


> --- Poor battery set-up? Perhaps for you. Clearly SureFire's biggest customer base (Uncle Sam and his boys) would disagree.



Clearly Uncle Sam and his boys aren't in a position to choose in the first place. But again, who cares about those anyway?..

CR123 isn't the most easily available, nor the densest, nor the safest, nor the most affordable kind of power cell—it's all common knowledge. Its only advantage is size of a single cell—advantage that is promptly thrown out of the window when you're using three or four of them in series. I understand that the army can't bother recharging anything (it's indeed inappropriate in their circumstances, and I wouldn't argue against that), so they want high-drain primaries in their lights... But I'm not in the military, and neither are most of us here, so that shouldn't be that much of a concern.

For those of us with easy access to electric outlets, a multi-16340 setup, even if accepted by certain lights of SF's lineup, is indeed poor when compared to alternatives: modern high-capacity NiMHs rival 16340s in raw energy density and drain capability, and a single 18650 holds over 4× the 16340's capacity at same voltage and only twice the length. In short, such a setup works, and makes sense in some very specific circumstances, but it's still a poor setup for anything else if you don't want to rely on primaries. As a result, SF's entire lineup is pretty much a hostage to its combat roots.


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## Brasso (Oct 15, 2012)

Just because someone uses the same alluminum as Surefire doesn't make it a Surefire inside. The Chinese lights are thrown together for quick sale. They aren't potted. They aren't even glued in some cases. Most of the time the led is stuck to a board with thermal paste and chewing gum. They have no heat sinking to speak of. They are almost all way over driven. Which is why they rarely last very long. There are exceptions here and there of course. Some are better than others, but none of them are built to withstand milspec testing standards. And yes, I still think Surefire skimps on their emitter binning, which is a shame considering the cost.


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## Kestrel (Oct 15, 2012)

Don't folks have anything better to do than this? It's not like the OP was trying to open this same old can of worms with post #1 actually having a pretty tight focus:


shado said:


> It's been a few years and a bunch of lights since I started collecting. After reading a thread this evening it occured to me, I've never owned a SureFire. Have you?



Any more conversation comparable to what has gotten all the other 'Are Surefires worth it?' threads *closed* will result in, you guessed it. I'm always surprised there are some folks out there who love this endless debate and never seem to tire of it, I know that I am - and I have a 'close thread' button. :ironic:


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## shado (Oct 15, 2012)

Kestrel said:


> Don't folks have anything better to do than this? It's not like the OP was trying to open this same old can of worms with post #1 actually having a pretty tight focus:
> 
> 
> Any more conversation comparable to what has gotten all the other 'Are Surefires worth it?' threads *closed* will result in, you guessed it. I'm always surprised there are some folks out there who love this endless debate and never seem to tire of it, I know that I am - and I have a 'close thread' button. :ironic:



Thank You! 

My first Surefire is on the way :thumbsup: a Oveready custom triple copper E2E (XP-G2)


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## 880arm (Oct 15, 2012)

shado said:


> Thank You!
> 
> My first Surefire is on the way :thumbsup: a Oveready custom triple copper E2E (XP-G2)



Wow, that's an impressive "first Surefire"!


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## lingpau (Oct 15, 2012)

I have one 6P LED and it failed to light after about 15 minutes of use. I sent it back to Surefire and they put a new LED module in it. This new module lasted for about 30 minutes of intermittent use and the light beam is mostly brownish yellow and gives off very little useable light. As far as I have experienced, a $10.00 DX light is FAR more dependable. Surefire has ignored all my emails to them. I called and they want me to pay a second time to ship the same light back to them. Even Dx has better customer service than that!


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## BT-EMT (Oct 15, 2012)

As I am just discovering there are TONS of aftermarket mods and huge improvements to the SF line. Being made in the USA sure is a nice thing for me. 30 years from now I would imagine you will still be able to get parts for Surefire products - how many other companies will still be around ? The non aluminum versions are a decent price, but no doubt the MilSpec Type III hard-anodized material just feels QUALITY. I just bought a new multi mode LED Mini Mag (pretty impressive by the way), and the first thing I noticed was that it just felt different in my hand compared to the aluminum that SF uses. I would like to see a recessed clicky button instead of the protruding tactical button. Since the are easily available they make great gifts to our friends and family that have not even upgraded to a Mag Light yet.. LOL


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## mrpotato (Oct 15, 2012)

I have 3,nice stuff


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## TMedina (Oct 15, 2012)

If I hadn't enlisted, I probably would never have gotten the Surefire bug. And now that I'm out, I'm a little more selective about the Surefires I buy.

That said, a stock SF E1L is on my belt all the time. A SF G2 w/ Malkoff M61LL is sitting in my tool bag, and a SF G2Z w/ Malkoff M61WL is my ready-reach light.

The old SF incans make for great hosts, especially since Surefire was slow to jump on the LED transition. I'm such a fan, I have a Z2, E2E, and a G3, all NIB, sitting in my tough box. Just because.


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## Monocrom (Oct 15, 2012)

moozooh said:


> Is there any index for such tests, or at least a list of threads to read through? Was the competition chosen to match the form factor and build materials of the SF tested, or was it random?



More along the lines of being a Regular, and having encountered more such topics than I can count off the top of my head, or if I had an hour or two to think about it. No index. And since those comparison tests were done by individual members, they varied from unscientific but eye-opening to very scientific indeed. Often with confusing charts tossed in, if I'm honest. So yes, random. But in many cases, scientific. The scientific ones often involved lights as close to the SF models tested as the individual members could get. 

But Kestrel has stepped in and made it clear that this not become another "SureFire vs. _____" topic. 

So I'll leave it at that. If you'd like to continue the discussion with me, feel free to PM me.


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## Norm (Oct 15, 2012)

Torture tests on SF lights?


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## Monocrom (Oct 15, 2012)

Thanks Norm.


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## remat457 (Oct 15, 2012)

I own a few...I am a big fan of the G2 and G2LED but haven't bought any of the new lines because they have significantly jumped up from their $40 price point. I also own a couple of incandescent lights 6P and E2D. The Defender is a neat light, but don't keep it in a pocket the crown bezel will tear it up.


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## Alpinebully (Oct 16, 2012)

If i recall correctly, a Yellow Surefire G2 was the first flashlight i ever purchased as an 'adult', some 10ish years ago and i still have it today. 

Ive only recently looked at the revised G2's and 6P's and i have to say i really do prefer the look of original ones!


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## Coolz (Oct 18, 2012)

I have 2 SureFire's that I've owned for years: a black G2 Nitrolon and an Executive Elite E2e. Don't care much for the G2, but I really enjoyed the E2e until I started using LED lights. If I could upgrade the E2e without emptying my wallet I'd consider it, but last time I looked (years ago) it was pretty pricey to do so.

- Coolz


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 18, 2012)

Yeah, the Es have the same pedestal bulb design as the large Ms. Without the module friendly design the P60 lights share, everything is more work for less result.

The thing to keep in mind is that SF wasn't trying to create modularity, it was an accident of having the guy who happened to design the first 6P. 

Had there been something like a P20 equivalent, Es would probably be more popular than Ps!


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## Kestrel (Oct 18, 2012)

ElectronGuru said:


> [...] Had there been something like a P20 equivalent, Es would probably be more popular than Ps!


ooo, now you're talking my language.


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 18, 2012)

The funny part is that collectively we (CPFers) have the ability to create a new standard. Like open source hardware, we could decide on a smaller package size, with one group making sockets and one group making mini drop ins to fit.

If it could somehow fit onto E bodies, there would be a built in upgrade market, too.

*Please note: I'm thinking out loud, not revealing any plan*


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## calipsoii (Oct 18, 2012)

ElectronGuru said:


> The funny part is that collectively we (CPFers) have the ability to create a new standard. Like open source hardware, we could decide on a smaller package size, with one group making sockets and one group making mini drop ins to fit.



It was before my time, but wasn't that the idea with the ALEPH series of lights?

The only thing I'd worry about is if CPF'ers create a new set of dimensional standards, the total number of people who know about it is limited to... CPF'ers. I spoke to a lot of machine shops when trying to finish a project and they all stated unequivocally that I need to buy LOTS (3000-5000 pieces) to make it affordable. Since this new flashlight standard would only really be known through CPF there is a very limited market. If you can't sell all 5000 pieces, then you need to make less, which drives up the price and further alienates a lot of sales, driving up price, etc... Eventually the new light ends up in custom territory and everyone's afraid of using them because of how much they cost, so they sit unused on a shelf. Since they're never used, there's no reason to upgrade them, so the aftermarket just sort of stagnates. Then everyone just buys China lights instead.

I'd love to see someone on CPF come out with a dropin-friendly future-proof light, but unless everyone here buys it and uses it regularly, I'd be worried that in 3 years everyone will have forgotten about it.


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 18, 2012)

Interesting, the ALEPH is before my time, too. By the looks of it, the reflector is an independent part, something the host builder would make. One of the P60/D26 advantages is that drop in builder can tune the reflector (or optic) for the performance of the LED and engine, a single self contained unit, calibrated before its even installed.

Different size shops have different quantities for normal. 5000 is a bit much, I rarely go above 500 when making something. But your point is the same, lower volume equals higher unit cost. And even 500 is a huge risk. A host shop wouldn't make hosts until there were drop ins and a drop in shop wouldn't make drop ins until there were hosts. 

Whenever the first non surefire P60 was built, many hosts were already on shelves and in drawers and pockets.


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## AmandaH (Oct 18, 2012)

I have just ordered my first, have a friend that swears by them, but I have also heard the batteries are bad for blowing up on them? Anyone other heard this? Or had this problem! Either way still looking forward to it arriving, looks sweet!


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## scout24 (Oct 18, 2012)

ElectronGuru- Having two of your coper triple E2e's has now spoiled me...  It seems that electronics are small enough, and there is room in an E head once you machine away the reflector for a dropin of sorts along the line of the P60. A one time cost incurred by the customer for the head machining would probably be acceptable to most, and any variety of optic or reflector based modules could be offered. I realize I'm oversimplifying, but would be greatly interested in your thoughts...


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## [email protected] (Oct 18, 2012)

What Monochrome said about the Golden Age of Surefire. I'm very much an old school Surefire guy.

Yeah I've got a few of 'em, an getting one or two more every once and awhile.


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## [email protected] (Oct 18, 2012)

moozooh said:


> Re: OP question: I haven't. Here's why.
> 
> — Very combat-oriented UI that is impractical for most other purposes.
> — Poor power efficiency and—last I checked—no output stabilization.
> — Poor battery setup in most of the lineup—CR123 primaries are expensive and not easily found in rural areas, RCR123 are not as energy-dense as 18650 and not as common as NiMH.



And you're finding that you have to fish through all the 18650's, the NiMH batteries and requisite lamp assemblies to find the CR123's in rural areas to power your flashlights?


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## Brasso (Oct 18, 2012)

I've often thought that Mr. Malkoff is missing out on a huge market by not making a scaled down, mulit-mode, module compatible with "e" series bodies. Can you imagine an entire series of miniature M61's?


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## TMedina (Oct 18, 2012)

AmandaH said:


> I have just ordered my first, have a friend that swears by them, but I have also heard the batteries are bad for blowing up on them? Anyone other heard this? Or had this problem! Either way still looking forward to it arriving, looks sweet!



With lithium batteries, it is a possibility, but a very remote one. Until I started perusing this forum, I'd never heard, nor read of, anyone having a battery actually explode in a flashlight if that tells you how rare it is.


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## TMedina (Oct 18, 2012)

Brasso said:


> I've often thought that Mr. Malkoff is missing out on a huge market by not making a scaled down, mulit-mode, module compatible with "e" series bodies. Can you imagine an entire series of miniature M61's?



He might start to diversify a bit - he created some LED modules for non-P60 Surefire weaponlights, so I suspect it wouldn't be all that hard for him to adapt the basic design to fit a stock E series.

The multi-mode thing is another matter entirely - he hasn't made a P60 multi-mode drop-in, and that would be the first off the drawing board.

That said, the E2C adapters and the VME heads exist to fill that niche and short of a massive groundswell of pre-orders, I don't see it happening.


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 18, 2012)

scout24 said:


> ElectronGuru- Having two of your coper triple E2e's has now spoiled me...  It seems that electronics are small enough, and there is room in an E head once you machine away the reflector for a dropin of sorts along the line of the P60. A one time cost incurred by the customer for the head machining would probably be acceptable to most, and any variety of optic or reflector based modules could be offered. I realize I'm oversimplifying, but would be greatly interested in your thoughts...



Its trickier than it seems. Modifying stock heads and then creating a drop in shaped to that new socket would be more work than what we did for the E2's. And as they are now out of production, the field of potential upgraders is finite and would would get smaller every year. Most long term E solutions involve making a new head from scratch, more of a drop on. Either solution costs more than a drop in ready format where customers already have a drop in ready host.

Extra thoughts: the P60 shape has several thermal disadvantages. Any mini P60 should be designed, not from the outside in, to fit a particular existing package, but designed from the inside out, for performance and integrity.


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## Monocrom (Oct 18, 2012)

AmandaH said:


> I have just ordered my first, have a friend that swears by them, but I have also heard the batteries are bad for blowing up on them? Anyone other heard this? Or had this problem! Either way still looking forward to it arriving, looks sweet!



Check out the "Smoke & Fire" sub-forum attached to the _"Flashlight Electronics - Batteries included" _forum here on CPF.

Have there been examples of CR123 cells exploding inside flashlights? 
- Yes.

Do SureFire CR123 cells routinely explode inside flashlights? 
- No. If they did, SureFire would have gone out of business long ago from all the lawsuits from customers.

The reasons why CR123 cells in general (nothing specific involving SureFire) vent with flame has been extensively covered on CPF. Please read through the sub-forum mentioned above. You should be able to find answers to your questions regarding CR123 cells, there; in the topics which already exist on that sub-forum.


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## Kestrel (Oct 19, 2012)

OK folks, this thread has been fun (for the most part) but I think we've fully explored the original topic by now and are just wandering about in the wilderness at this point. 
Anyone, please feel free to open new threads on some of the other topics that have been introduced here.
Thanks & best regards,


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