# DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / POB / Thor Mods



## petrev (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi

After modding my Vector Twin to 100W HID I wanted a lithium battery option for reduced weight and longer runtime so . . .

Saw this thread My modded 35W HID running on Li-Ion by *wshadow* and it sparked the rest of the build.

Bought a couple of new "Dell" laptop batteries cheapish on eBay ($55 each posted)





While I could see from the image that they had some electronics in them I didn't think this would be any use ! Caution parasitic drain if used as later described . . .

*EDIT:* *WARNING* 
I have now removed the "Dell" Circuit board and FET Cutoff as there is a parasitic drain from this circuit and FET arrangement and you have to keep an eye on them or they will drain below a rechargeable state ! ! !

I lost 4 cells in a group from 1 pack that had drained below 1V before I noticed ! ! ! Had to be replaced - managed to save the other cells luckily.
Use a circuit from Batteryspace or similar if you require protection.
*END EDIT*

Sorry - No Photos of first stage !

Broke the two packs out of their plastic cases and linked all the nodes - left one circuit board attached and covered it with it's plastic front Dremeled from the battery case for a bit of extra protection. 





Attached a balanced-charger pigtail to the other set of node leads that were de-soldered from the second packs circuit board.





*Warning :* *Do not use unless you can watch the parasitic drain carefully*. 
Using the +ve Power out from the circuit board I put a Low-Voltage cut-off onto the top of the pack. The circuit cuts off its output at 10V and this is used to switch an FET.





Power leads attached to POS and Switched-NEG from FET - Power-Pole connectors and a converter to spade connectors to allow reversion to SLA as needed.

Original battery compartment and SLA





Add some more tape to the pack to cover the ends and stick some foam into the tail-cap - Et Voila





More foam to be added as needed . . . (both sides)

Enough room for 2 more packs (with a little fillet removal !) should even longer runtime be required

Original Runtime
25 minutes on HIGH (recharge 24+ Hours)

New Runtime 
*68 minutes* on HIGH (recharge 2.5 Hours at 4A ~1/2C)

Original SLA Weight 
2.3 Kg (5lbs) 

New Li Pack Weight
*735g* (1.5lbs)

Pack should work/fit into any 7000mAh+ SLA powered HID or Thor

*wshadow*'s build incorporated a neat circuit that allowed a simple charging method with balance and over-discharge protection - this could be used for pack charging using a std. pack charger if preferred.

Cheers
Pete


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## rizky_p (Jun 15, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*

Goggle on 

thanks for sharing.


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*

awesome! absolutely a must-do project in the near future.


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## Patriot (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*

Nicely done! That light needed it too.


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## Flashanator (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*

Nuts runtime for 3x lighter Batt.

I beat you tossed the heavy SLA in the bin like the outdated junk it is. LOL!!!


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## petrev (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



Flashanator 500mW said:


> Nuts runtime for 3x lighter Batt.
> 
> I beat you tossed the heavy SLA in the bin like the outdated junk it is. LOL!!!


 


I have a little pile of SLAs waiting for a good use to be found - and not one not involving carrying them . . .

Battery works a treat in the POB etc. too.

Cheers 
Pete


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## IMSabbel (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*

I wonder why you didnt include the charging level indicator?
I mean, you got if for free with this pack...


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## petrev (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



IMSabbel said:


> I wonder why you didnt include the charging level indicator?
> I mean, you got if for free with this pack...



Hi IMS,

I did include the charge level indicator !

It's still on the PCB but it doesn't seem to work without info from the PC - Just flashes 1 LED whatever the charge level after the first discharge-charge cycle. If it ever works in the future I will let you know ! ! ! 

Cheers
Pete


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## IMSabbel (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



petrev said:


> Hi IMS,
> 
> I did include the charge level indicator !
> 
> ...


Ah, i didnt notice. 
Also,I can tell you that it _should_ work without a PC.
At least the one of mine does.


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## petrev (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



IMSabbel said:


> Ah, i didnt notice.
> Also,I can tell you that it _should_ work without a PC.
> At least the one of mine does.



Ah well - Guess my power meter is broken !

How are you using and charging your pack ?

Cheers
Pete


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## IMSabbel (Jun 16, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



petrev said:


> Ah well - Guess my power meter is broken !
> 
> How are you using and charging your pack ?
> 
> ...



Well. Usually, its stuck in my laptop. And i use it by using the laptop. 
Afterwards, i charge it via the laptop 
Sorry 

Btw, how much did you pay for it? 
Via dell itself, an 8 cell battery can cost near §200...


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## FredM (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*

So 16 cells total with 4S4P?


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## petrev (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



FredM said:


> So 16 cells total with 4S4P?


 
Yes that's it 16 cells total - although I prefer to call it 4P4S as all cells are linked at each level. 

Cheers
Pete


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## petrev (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



IMSabbel said:


> Well. Usually, its stuck in my laptop. And i use it by using the laptop.
> Afterwards, i charge it via the laptop
> Sorry
> 
> ...



Hi IMS,

This is where the confusion may have arisen - My pack has not been near a laptop and I believe that the multi-pin allows 2way data so that the laptop and battery pack work out about charge status / capacity between them. Without the laptop my pack just isn't very well informed ! The power meter is not just a simple voltage display (POB type)

Maybe you know what all this does ?




Sorry don't know how much §200 is ( § ? unknown currency ?)
Generic battery was £28 ($56) from This Guy . here posted from HK.

Cheers 
Pete


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## IMSabbel (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



petrev said:


> Hi IMS,
> 
> This is where the confusion may have arisen - My pack has not been near a laptop and I believe that the multi-pin allows 2way data so that the laptop and battery pack work out about charge status / capacity between them. Without the laptop my pack just isn't very well informed ! The power meter is not just a simple voltage display (POB type)
> 
> ...



§ is just one key next to $. Typo 

And i know that the Battery charge indicator works even witout it being in the computer.

Maybe its because you changed the wireing? Could it be that the think is also a charge/balancing controller you curently bypass?


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## petrev (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



IMSabbel said:


> § is just one key next to $. Typo
> 
> And i know that the Battery charge indicator works even without it being in the computer.
> 
> Maybe its because you changed the wiring? Could it be that the think is also a charge/balancing controller you currently bypass?



Hi,

Yes, I know it works when not in the computer, as that is when you can get at it to press the button I expect. Could well be a balance charger circuit - I am indeed bypassing it so who knows ? Dell-Expert anywhere ?

Cheers 
Pete

p.s. UK keyboard on my comp. so that key is not on mine and didn't recognise the typo - sorry.:thumbsup:


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## AlexGT (Jun 23, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*

Hi all!

I have some questions, 

1.- Can this batteries be used without removing them from their casing? just soder wires to the battery and go. 
2.- Do the battery circuits work to cut power when low voltage and not overcharge? Are the circuits smart?
3.- Can they take the initial current needed to power up the 35W HID without tripping a short circuit protection? 

Thanks!
AlexGT

Thanks


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## petrev (Jun 23, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



AlexGT said:


> Hi all!
> 
> I have some questions,
> 
> ...



Hi Alex

A1. Maybe - the multipin is well shrouded - the outer of the 7 pins are the pos and neg. Most soldering irons would do some damage to the plastic getting to the pins ! ! !

A2. Low voltage cut-out used by my FET switch but while I am sure there are more things built into the circuit I have no knowledge of how they work or what they do ! Circuit is no doubt smart but . . . ?

A3. Unknown - Sorry ?

Cheers
Pete


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## FredM (Jun 23, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*

Have you tested when the battery cuts out? The ballast cuts out somewhere under 12V on the SLA battery but that would be less than 3V per Li-Ion cell. 

Seems kinda low.


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## petrev (Jun 23, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



FredM said:


> Have you tested when the battery cuts out? The ballast cuts out somewhere under 12V on the SLA battery but that would be less than 3V per Li-Ion cell.
> 
> Seems kinda low.



Hi Fred

The SLA just drops too low to keep the arc and the bulb starts to flicker off/on 

The Li pack drops to 10V and cuts off at which point the arc is still viable so there is no warning - while the cut off is 10V this is under a load of 10A so the cells once unloaded bounce back to about 13V and seem fine. If you leave the lamp switched on it will cycle on again as the cells recover to over 10V and the protection switches out . . . etc.

Cheers
Pete


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## Drewfus2101 (Jun 23, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*

Great info petrev. I just bought the same light once I read another thread about it. I have not bought the HID kit yet but I know I'll need a lithium-ion setup to really enjoy the light. 

I'm very interested in doing something just like this after seeing how cheap you can get laptop batteries online. They might be refurbished, but considering that I'll be pulling them apart for they're batteries, I don't really care. 

I'm pretty good with lithium-ions and soldering BUT I'm a little concerned about the protection circuit. I really don't understand what you did on yours or how it works. Maybe you can give more of an explanation. 

Also, does anyone know of any place that sells PCBs for 14.8V? I found 1 at BatteryJunction, but it will only allow 3.0A discharge at 14V, which I don't believe is enough for a dual HID setup. 

I'm not daring enough to try this without a protection circuit, and the Kai protected D lithium-ions are just a little too expensive right now. Plus they are HUGE.


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## Drewfus2101 (Jun 23, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*

What if I used two of those PCBs? Along with the two sets of batteries? Like petrev?

So I had one laptop battery (14.8V, ~5A) and wired in one of those PCBs that would only allow 3A continuous discharge. Then I built the same setup with the other laptop battery and PCB, then wired them both in parallel. Could I then discharge a full 6A?

What does the Vector twin running 55W HIDs pull from the battery current wise? More than 6A? I could always build another and be able to discharge 9A.....


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## petrev (Jun 23, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



Drewfus2101 said:


> Great info petrev. I just bought the same light once I read another thread about it. I have not bought the HID kit yet but I know I'll need a lithium-ion setup to really enjoy the light.
> 
> I'm very interested in doing something just like this after seeing how cheap you can get laptop batteries online. They might be refurbished, but considering that I'll be pulling them apart for they're batteries, I don't really care.
> 
> ...


 
Hi

I chose the Dell battery packs because they were well priced for new cells ready strapped as packs.

The PCB attached to them may do many things but I am only using the Over-Discharge function as I have a balance charger and am relying on a simple fuse for short circuit protection.

There is a circuit from batteryspace that does 10A but that is just about where the V-Twin100 runs so you would have to use 2 circuits - one for each 4400 pack, then you could just use a simple pack charger. There are wires to each node of the Dell pack already fitted so you would find the wiring very easy.

Cheers
Pete

ps. Batteryspace also do these 4400 packs with the PCB fitted that might work out cost effective if in the US ! 2 of them would be a good start.


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## Drewfus2101 (Jun 24, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*

I am also using a balance charger. How would using a PCB like the one you linked from Batteryspace affect the balance charger? The PCB diagram shows only two charging ports, so I would have to bypass those and charge straight to the batteries. I'm not too worried about that as the charger is smart enough not to overcharger. I'm not too sure how the PCB would like that though or if it would allow charging like that. 

Ofcourse I will add a simple automotive 10A fuse. 

I guess I'll just have to try it. 

Those packs look good, and arn't that bad expensive, but they wouldn't work with my balance charger.


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## petrev (Jun 25, 2008)

*Re: DIY 8800mAh Lithium pack for HID / Thor Mods*



Drewfus2101 said:


> I am also using a balance charger. How would using a PCB like the one you linked from Batteryspace affect the balance charger? The PCB diagram shows only two charging ports, so I would have to bypass those and charge straight to the batteries. I'm not too worried about that as the charger is smart enough not to overcharger. I'm not too sure how the PCB would like that though or if it would allow charging like that.
> 
> Of course I will add a simple automotive 10A fuse.
> 
> ...


 
Hi

Your balance pigtail will connect to the same places as the PCB nodes or you can maybe wire direct to the PCB - same for the pre-built packs. 

Just noticed the pre built packs have an extra 4.2A PolySwitch ! that limits the current to much and would have to be bypassed.

You should probably be OK using your balance charger wired to the PCB nodes as long as the charger doesn't object and then the PCB would be there to prevent over discharge during use. My FMA charges fine with the Dell PCB attached in parallel. Just have to experiment is my guess !

Have fun
Pete


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## petrev (Oct 10, 2009)

*EDIT:* *WARNING* 
I have now removed the "Dell" Circuit board and FET Cutoff as there is a parasitic drain from this circuit and FET arrangement and you have to keep an eye on them or they will drain below a rechargeable state ! ! !

I lost 4 cells in a group from 1 pack that had drained below 1V before I noticed ! ! ! Had to be replaced - managed to save the other cells luckily.
Use a circuit from Batteryspace or similar if you require protection.
*END EDIT*


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