# Legal flashlight length



## hmmwv (Jul 5, 2004)

Last night a friend and I were inspecting the dimmer/flasher accessory tailcap for the SL-35X streamlight - he asked if that flashlight was "legal" - concerned over the overall length of the light approaching that of a club, nightstick, or bat.

I did a quick search on google tonight for the terms "legal" and "illegal" combined with "flashlight length" and found essentially zip.

Does anyone here know of a limit as to how long a flashlight can be before it is considered a weapon and not a light any more or if any such law exists (by state or locality)? 

There are some strange laws on the books regarding striking weapons - i.e. if you have a baseball bat in your car, it is a weapon, if you have the same bat, plus a ball and glove, it is sporting goods and can not be considered a weapon. 

While the SL-35X is large, it's not the longest by any means, easily outclassed in length by a 6D mag which you certainly could put on some batting gloves and grab with two hands if you so chose. 

It would be best to know the laws regarding long, heavy objects vs. flashlights in your state before an over zealous LEO decides yours is bigger than his and that's probable cause for a vehicle search. (my SL-35X sits in the car charger most of the time and is easily seen)

Anyone have any legal experience or run-ins to talk about?


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## [email protected] (Jul 5, 2004)

My "uneducated" guess is that it is all depending on the situation. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
What can be a normal ( /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif ) light in one situation, ( breakdown on highway, Mag 3D for example) can be considered a weapon in another situation... ( think soccer hooligans , etc. )

I can't think of any legal excuse to lug around a 6D light... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif


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## dano (Jul 5, 2004)

Nope, no such law that I know of. More of a reliance on intent and actions when it comes to an object that can be used as a weapon (like a baseball bat, flashlight, etc)but isn't specifically deemed illegal in the appropriate statutes...IMHO
--dan


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## IlluminatingBikr (Jul 5, 2004)

Shouldn't really matter, because you should only be using it as a flashlight, or for self-defence....in which case it should all be legal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## mudmojo (Jul 5, 2004)

I imagine that something as outwardly innocuous as a toothbrush could be deemed a weapon in a court of law if one were to use it inappropriately.

However, an object more suited to weapon duty like a 6D would be more likely to sway a jury towards a guilty verdict yes?


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## Phaserburn (Jul 5, 2004)

It's a flashlight until you start swinging it around. Mag's 6D is legal to sell, obviously. Certainly wouldn't want to get hit with one.


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## Stainless (Jul 5, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*[email protected] said:*

I can't think of any legal excuse to lug around a 6D light... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

...especially in the Peoples Republic of California. I suspect that anything the size of a 2d mag (or larger) could be considered a weapon - while something as small as a 2AA Minimag could be considered a CONCEALED weapon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif

Seriously though, I do not expect that you are ever going to get a solid answer. I few years ago I was collecting (and carrying) pocket knives. Wanting to be sure I was "legal", I called my (PA) State Police to get the facts. I was then refered to my local Sheriff, who then referred me to his Deputy Sheriff, who then told me that legality was "up to the discression of the arresting officer". Actually he told me that several times - in response to all my specific questions about blade length, blade shape, blade color etc. All this, in a legal jurisdidction which routinely issues permits to carry concealed FIREARMS. In a 'cop shop" I once spotted a black alluminum cylinder about one inch by twelve inches. I was told that it was an "aluminum baton" and although I could buy it, I could not carry it under ANY circumstances - even if I was to posess a permit to carry concealed FIREARMS. Flashlights - even those with "pepper spray" - were not illegal.

LEOs DEFINATELY NEED to have a fair degree of "discression" to carry out their difficult duties - but it WOULD BE NICE if us law abiding folks could get some useable guidlines regarding the carrying of objects on our persons.


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## Double_A (Jul 5, 2004)

I've never heard of any statutes on the books regarding length. Any object carried with the intention of being used as a weapon IS a weapon!

Anticipate a line of questions to determine if you carried any object with the intent to go armed.

In court I would imagine one of the first questions asked of you would be "Why did you pick this light over that light?" Isn't your E2e about the same brightness as your 4-D maglight?

You get the drift, be prepared to answer with a line of reasoning that gets a nod.

GregR


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## GJW (Jul 5, 2004)

Cold Steel used to sell a flaslight with the same shape and dimensions as your standard baton.
Seemed like an obvious intent to circumvent some such law.
My guess is that "flashlights" are not specifically covered by any weapons laws.


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## gadget_lover (Jul 5, 2004)

The post by stanless pretty much echos what I got here in California. Posession of a billy club is illegal. Using anything as a club makes it a weapon. The DA, police department and state Attorny General office all point you back to one of the other two.

It's up to the officer to decide if knives, lights, etc are illegal enough to confiscate. It's up to the judge, the prosecutor and your lawyer to decide if it's legal enough to give back to you.

From several LEOs: If you are not acting badly or using it wrongly, they won't bother you about it. If you **** them off or are being busted for somthing else, they will likely add the weapons charges to help bolster their case.

Daniel


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## ABTOMAT (Jul 5, 2004)

I've heard that lights over 3D cells is not legal for public carry in NYC, but I haven't heard anything other than that. My guess is that's it's like most any non-weapon object laws: ie if you don't use it as a weapon it isn't.

On the other hand, there are probably areas in the US with intention laws like England. So if you carry a 6D Mag (and I sometimes do, mostly for actual light output) at night you're fine as long as you don't administer an *** beating. The same flashlight would probably draw police if you were carrying it down the sidewalk at noon.


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## Stainless (Jul 5, 2004)

ABTOMAT - nice EDC - you must really clank when you walk. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif


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## Icebreak (Jul 5, 2004)

ABTOMAT -

Third from left is not an EL Blaster V but looks a little like it. What is it?

Thanks.

- Jeff


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## ABTOMAT (Jul 5, 2004)

It's a 6D Pro-Light. One of the many '70s brands to come out. Honestly, I think it's junk. Very poorly thought out internal design, weighs a ton. But I'd swap it for a Blaster V. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## dontdiewondering (Jul 6, 2004)

I have not heared anything about legal flashlight lenght in Canada.


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## Lurker (Jul 7, 2004)

The most precise way to find the answer to your question is to check the actual legal code for your state. It may be available on line through your state government website. If so, search it for "weapon" and read the applicable sections. You should also do this for your city legal code if applicable.

Chances are there will be general references to "club, billy, black-jack" etc. but no definitions and no measurements. Therefore any sort of item might be deemed a weapon if it is used as a weapon OR if you are asked why you have it and you reply "for protection." Typically these sorts of weapons are a legal problem only if they are concealed or brought into certain locations like a bar, school, courthouse, etc. Or, of course, if used to injure someone (even in self-defense).

Having a flashlight in plain view in your car should not be a problem unless under very unusual circumstances that are hard to imagine.


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## Wave (Jul 7, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*ABTOMAT said:*
I've heard that lights over 3D cells is not legal for public carry in NYC

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never heard that or seen that anywhere in the NYC penal code I could be wrong, don't have a copy on me at the moment. It's totally a discretionary issue, If you're using it as a light then you should be good to go, unless of course you're caught in an area with a high incidence of burglaries, then maybe having a flashlight "might" just up my level of suspicion. Physically assault someone with it and I'll take you to central booking.

Why would you want to draw attention to yourself carrying around a lousy 6D cell Maglight anyhow? Carry a nice SureFire or StreamLight!


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## ABTOMAT (Jul 7, 2004)

Sometimes when I'm working outside or walking around and I need a loong throw and wide flood. It's not a bad light if you shoulder carry it and don't go on a hike. Otherwise I use a Scorp when I'm out and have a G2 on the way.


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## Jiffy (Jul 8, 2004)

ABTOMAT is right about the intention laws over here. In the UK it's ok to carry a baseball bat in the boot of your car but if you have it sitting beside the seat of your car when you're driving along then they take a different view of that. I guess much the same thing applies to torches (I'm really gonna bug you lot 'cause I call them torches and not flashlights!). I can happily carry my 6D Maglight about without any problems but if I was to start beating someone around the head with it then I'd probably be done for carrying an offensive weapon.

I like to carry my 6D Mag with the main body resting on my shoulder. A quck flick of the wrist and it's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif time! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## fivebyfive (Jul 9, 2004)

I would have to echo the majority of the responses to your question. I have an A.A. and approaching B.S. in Crminal Justice Admninistration and haven't heard or even read anything about legal lengths for flashlights. There are certain objects that are labeled "deadly weapons" (ninja throwing stars, batons, billy clubs...) and some weapons that can turn into a deadly weapon. Baseball bat swung at someone's head, magic marker into someone's eye, a car into a person... So long as you don't use your flashlight as a weapon to attack someone then you're okay. This one part goes back to intent. You can have a bat in the car, but what you intend to do with it is what will determine it's legality. Not against the law just to carry a bat in the car. California Penal Code sections 12020 and 12028 pretty much answers your questions. These sections are really LONG, so I'm not going to post it.


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## Avix (Jul 12, 2004)

never trust a LEO with a legal question, there job isin't to interpret the law, but to enforce it. the example about knives a while back was very good, I once asked 4 LEO's in the same office if my belt folder knife was legal, I got 4 differnt oppinions. (1 yes, 2 no, one "damedifiknow") I once asked my Chief of Police if sword canes were legal, he couldn't tell me, I called the County Sherrif, same deal, I had to contact the state AG's office to find out not only were they legal, but you didn't need a Concieled permit to carry them legaly. (suprised the heck out of me and I lost the bet)

when in doubt, call the guy who is going to decide if you are going to be charged. the Prosecutor. the cops can put you in jail overnight, find out THEY were wrong, and send you on your way. the prosecutor is the one who decides if the jail is going to land on you or beside you.


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## jamesraykenney (Jul 13, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Phaserburn said:*
It's a flashlight until you start swinging it around. Mag's 6D is legal to sell, obviously. Certainly wouldn't want to get hit with one. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I carried my 7D Mag all the time when we went walking in the evening for protection against dogs and other problem 'critters.'
Never had any problem with the police, even when the arived to check on a burglery.

I REALLY wish that they still made the 7D...Mine was stolen out of my car...They left a Nikon F2!!!! in the back seat and took my FLASHLIGHT!!!, and my extra pair of GLASSES???? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


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## Double_A (Jul 13, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*fivebyfive said:*
I would have to echo the majority of the responses to your question. I have an A.A. and approaching B.S. in Crminal Justice Admninistration and haven't heard or even read anything about legal lengths for flashlights. There are certain objects that are labeled "deadly weapons" (ninja throwing stars, batons, billy clubs...) and some weapons that can turn into a deadly weapon. Baseball bat swung at someone's head, magic marker into someone's eye, a car into a person... So long as you don't use your flashlight as a weapon to attack someone then you're okay. This one part goes back to intent. You can have a bat in the car, but what you intend to do with it is what will determine it's legality. Not against the law just to carry a bat in the car. California Penal Code sections 12020 and 12028 pretty much answers your questions. These sections are really LONG, so I'm not going to post it. 

[/ QUOTE ]


Yep intent is a vital element in any crime. Hence my earlier post that anything you intend to use as a weapon becomes a weapon.

GregR


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