# How do you feel about OTC morning-after pills?



## BlindedByTheLite (Dec 21, 2003)

i know the wrinkles aren't ironed out of their plan thus far.. but as of now it sounds like it'll be way too easy to get.. articles have said things along the lines of it being beside the Aspirin..
i think it's encouraging sex, probly @ a younger age, and encouraging unprotected sex among the already sexually active population..
now granted, a good number of ppl have their facts straight and exercise the right precautions.. but a comparable number of ppl are very immature about it.
and i know it's been said that the company will provide extensive safety guidelines and sexual health advice.. including a 24 hour line.

i think there should be SOME sort of screening and approval.. @ least records should be kept, of general information.. like the age of consumers and frequency of purchases..
would it be comparable to the 3,000,000 documented unwanted/accident pregnancies per year?

i'm just a little worried, mostly about the early teenage population.. i'm only 19 myself, so i've got a bird's eye view of the youth..


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## raggie33 (Dec 21, 2003)

well there are so many unwanted pregencies so im all for it.


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## PhotonWrangler (Dec 21, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*BlindedByTheLite said:*
i know the wrinkles aren't ironed out of their plan thus far.. but as of now it sounds like it'll be way too easy to get.. articles have said things along the lines of it being beside the Aspirin.. 

[/ QUOTE ]
In general I think it's a good idea. It can reduce unwanted pregnancies, reduce a person's dependence on welfare and thus give a little more control back to their life. And because it's taken within a narrow window of time before the fetus is technically conceived, it's not really abortion.

But I also think that it shouldn't be completely anonymous like purchasing aspirin. Any individual who pops this stuff should have to have some sort of a history collected, if for no other reason than to prevent overuse and any harm that might result from that. This stuff is a lot more powerful than aspirin, and I can see some chronic users getting themselves into trouble with it.

I don't think that it's going to encourage a lot more, um, "activity," because other forms of birth control are already sold OTC in many places around the world.


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## BlindedByTheLite (Dec 21, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*PhotonWrangler said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*BlindedByTheLite said:*
i know the wrinkles aren't ironed out of their plan thus far.. but as of now it sounds like it'll be way too easy to get.. articles have said things along the lines of it being beside the Aspirin.. 

[/ QUOTE ]
But I also think that it shouldn't be completely anonymous like purchasing aspirin. Any individual who pops this stuff should have to have some sort of a history collected, if for no other reason than to prevent overuse and any harm that might result from that. This stuff is a lot more powerful than aspirin, and I can see some chronic users getting themselves into trouble with it.

[/ QUOTE ]
i really dig what you said in that paragraph..
and i agree with you both guys, i'm also for it, and think it's a fairly good idea..

i still however think it might be encouraging sexual activity.. i can see ppl thinking "oh what do we need a condom for, i can go to Walmart tomorrow and get the morning after pill" or even storing them ahead of time.. i'm afraid ppl might come to consider them a primary form of birth control.


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## James S (Dec 21, 2003)

Some people will consider them a primary form of birth control. Just like there are some people today that have had multiple abortions. However, this is not the norm. I think this can be an important part of a logical and responsible approach to birth control. After all, there are some forms that are safe and work well and protect you from STD's, but sometimes break...

I just don't buy the argument of it encouraging people to be more promiscuous in general though. Besides those that will already abuse it I don't think it will change people's behavior. If having condoms on the shelf at the local Kroger doesn't cause problems, then neither will this.

As far as danger from the pill itself, if the FDA has approved it for over the counter use, then it's safe for over the counter use. That means generally that you can learn all you need to know to use it safely and effectively from reading a few paragraphs on the sheet included with the drug. Again, there will certainly be folks that wont read it, or can't read it, or don't care about the consequences of misusing it, they won't be the norm. Over the counter drugs cause all kinds of problems in people that are tragically stupid. But they are tragically stupid. 

My thoughts on that might change when my own daughter is old enough for this to be an issue... I'll post again in 10 or 12 years /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif At the moment I'm enthusiastically for reducing unwanted pregnancy and reducing dependency on welfare and later term abortions. (though I fully support your right to have one if you want, I am very much against the government making them illegal, they are a choice that I am glad I was never required to help anyone make)


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## Flashlightboy (Dec 21, 2003)

In my view, this discussion can be had without bringing up the abortion debate.

That said, I think this pill, in some circumstances, be beneficial but I have other practical questions.

If a woman habitually decides that this pill is going to be her birth control choice (instead of birth contro), then this society has some serious mental issues to discuss. Is the pharmacist going to provide the counseling or simply be the pill processor? 

What are the long term health effects of this medicine for a woman who takes it on a continual basis? Since there is a very real possibility of abuse, are there safeguards built into the proposed plan?

Right now this pill is available via a doctor and I'm not sure I've ever heard reports of it being abused but I think that there are a number of unanswered questions that need to be resolved before I'd allow this unleashed on the public.


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## Empath (Dec 21, 2003)

There is little in society, that I can imagine, that more clearly demonstrates self-righteousness than advocating people's sexual activity and contraceptive purchases should be documented, studied and evaluated by Big Brother.


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## Mark_Larson (Dec 21, 2003)

Hear hear, Empath!

So what you all are suggesting is that the average person has no ability to self-regulate, to recognize that the average person doesn't have the ability to learn that this is an emergency measure, not for everyday use.

If people can believe that a Mountaineer is really good for driving around in the city, they can be educated about the morning-after pill. Planned Parenthood et al play the same role of educating and advising, but now you can get it at a pharmacy instead of going to PP or Marie Stopes. I fail to see the problem.


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## BlindedByTheLite (Dec 21, 2003)

safety measures!
Empath, all purchases are documented.. i simply think this particular purchase should be monitered much more closely.. medical/sociological purposes..

things really might need to be changed if it winds up being abused.. without documenting purchases how would we know if a 13 year old grl who relied on the pill into her late teens was @ risk for long term health problems?

we wouldn't know.. not until she has a problem.


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## raggie33 (Dec 21, 2003)

i love the avalibty of birtcontrol because of my disibilties ive decided long ago i dont want to have a child because i may pass them disibities to them.


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## PhotonWrangler (Dec 21, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*Flashlightboy said:*
If a woman habitually decides that this pill is going to be her birth control choice (instead of birth contro), then this society has some serious mental issues to discuss. Is the pharmacist going to provide the counseling or simply be the pill processor? 


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you that the primary focus should be on abstinence, and young people should be counselled to control their urges prior to marriage. There will never be a substitute for moderation and good judgement.

But I also feeel that having a "plan B" available is a beneficial thing when other measures have failed.


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## Empath (Dec 21, 2003)

BBL, all purchases are not, YET, documented to any extent. If you choose to use a debit card, credit card, or something like a Safeway Club card, yes. Marketing research is the most intrusive antiprivacy threat out there at this time. Right now, cash does permit privacy in your purchases. That too will be basically destroyed as the RFID tracking systems increase and replace bar-codes.

Let the 13 year old girl's parents concern themselves with her conduct. There's no reason you need to get worked up over what is basically none of your business. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## BlindedByTheLite (Dec 21, 2003)

i see what you're saying..

i'm worried about a scenario where it might be someone i know..
i have a younger cousin (13) who has asked me sex questions b4.. during the discussion, i found out just how close to having sex she'd been, @ 13! needless to say, i was pretty emotional.. especially when she told me she wasn't sexually active because, and i quote *there isn't a clinic she can get free BC from and her mother wouldn't consent to it*..
now that scared the sh*t outta me.

and now it's no worry.. she can go have sex with some punk with no worries and put herself @ risk.. 'cause worse comes to worst she just has to stroll into the store and then, problem taken care of.

she already made it apparent she wouldn't even feel the need for a condom if she had birth control since she'd only be sexually active ina committed relationship.. i had to give her a talking to about STD's..
am i sure it got thru to her? nope i can't say my mind's @ ease..

some ppl do think like that! and we outta take care of them, in my opinion..


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## BlindedByTheLite (Dec 21, 2003)

okay so maybe i'm just taking it personal..


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## Empath (Dec 21, 2003)

A 13 year old girl can be pretty innovative. Her decision will neither hinge on your opinion, nor _easy_ availability of contraceptives. Do what you feel is your responsibility, but don't assume what's more than your responsibility.


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## Saaby (Dec 21, 2003)

From what I read about this pill probably over a year ago it does it's job well but it's not without side effects. I think any woman will make her man wear a condom before she'll consent herself to being sick the whole day after the morning-after /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## Sinjz (Dec 21, 2003)

While I feel this morning after pill absolutely should be available, I have to agree with BlindedByTheLite when he says it should NOT be SO EASILY available. People WILL abuse this. The sad truth is, many people ARE dumb. 

[rant mode on] There are too many if's, and's, or but's to cover here, but bottom line, if you make it too easy, many children WILL have sex earlier because there is this easy to get "Magic Pill" that will keep them from getting pregnant. I really don't care if ADULTS pop one a day. I'm worried about the kids. The morale reasons not to have sex doesn't get through. Nobody talks about how much things change once you've had sex. No one explains the responsibilities. All we hear is "Here, take some condoms." Kids don't understand the consequences, they just hear it's fun. The social outrage is at a minimum. Sex is all over the media and used to sell everything. It's not 'special' it's simply normal. All their friends are doing it and only those who do get pregnant are "talked" about. Preteens are having sex and blow jobs are no longer even considered sex among young people. So if a 12y/o girl give a blow job to a 25 y/o guys, no statutory anything right? What's left? Fear. Fear of their parents, fear of getting pregnant, fear of being ostracized, hell even fear of god if you believe in one. Is this the best way? OF COURSE NOT! Yes, parents should teach their children how to be responsible blah, blah, blah...., back to reality, MANY DO NOT.[rant mode off]

BTW, I don't understand the objection to having those responsible enough to have sex, go to a clinic or get a prescription. No one here is saying don't make the pills available.


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## LitFuse (Dec 21, 2003)

Sinjz makes some good points. Where is the social outrage?

Children are no longer able to have a childhood in this country, they are told to grow up too fast. Big corporations and men wearing fancy suits are making millions at the expense of our children's childhoods. Sex sells, and children are a huge demographic. There is always someone who will put the dollar first unfortunately. Children are *bombarded* every day with the idea that sex is just another form of recreation and that all the "cool" people are doing it. 

The corporate programming of our children and our culture of consumerism are things that worry me greatly. I think that this is the root of many of our problems.

All /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif before the Almighty Dollar.


Peter


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## jallis (Dec 21, 2003)

gee i suppose there should be a morning after pill for all the rest of us who just bought that 15th or 16th flashlight and are feeling truly guilty?
well?
anyone?

jallis


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## Sigman (Dec 21, 2003)

Truly a personal decision that they have to live with!


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 21, 2003)

If it means there are less illigidiment (spelling) kids running around without a father and less women running around who can't support themselves or their ******* kids, then I'm all for it.

I'm tired of supporting women who can't keep their legs closed, fathers who have no sense of responsibility and these kids who turn out to be nothing more than a drain on society.


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## Sinjz (Dec 21, 2003)

While I'm glad someone said I have a point! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif However, I disagree with the corporate bashing. It's true that companies like MTV (Viacom), Abercrombe & Fitch, etc. would cram sex down your kid's throat for an extra buck, but those are not the companies I think of when I think "big corporations". Haliburton ain't doing this as much as some here would like to blame them. IBM, Microsoft, are not selling sex. Neither are these 'evil' accounting firms or investment banks. It's the media that push sex on kids. TV, radio, movies and especially magazines. Go ahead and read a copy of Seventeen or CosmoGirl. It's the 'progressive' people that say it's all okay cause it's freedom of speech, etc...

Anyway, the point is, just making it easy to get will not reduce illegitimate children. Dumb people won't even take it properly without help. Kids need to be taught about abstinence and the benefits of saving yourself for someone you actually care about. They need help resisting peer pressure and the idea that it's okay if "I just suck it a little...." I'm sure some are grinning at that last line, now think if your daughter, niece or cousin are the ones thinking it.


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## paulr (Dec 22, 2003)

The morning after pill has enough unpleasant side effects for most users that few will take it as primary birth control more than once. It really is an emergency contraceptive.


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## Saaby (Dec 22, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*paulr said:*
The morning after pill has enough unpleasant side effects for most users that few will take it as primary birth control more than once. It really is an emergency contraceptive. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Heck thinking about that again, it might just not make a 13 year old decide not to use it as a primary form again, it might make them think twice about having sex again period.


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## PhotonWrangler (Dec 22, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*Sinjz said:*
...It's true that companies like MTV (Viacom), Abercrombe & Fitch, etc. would cram sex down your kid's throat for an extra buck, but those are not the companies I think of when I think "big corporations".


[/ QUOTE ]
Sumner Redstone and his cr*ppy MTV have a lot to answer for IMO. At least a couple of people have died because of kids who torched their homes while emulating some of the stuff they saw on "Beavis and Butthead." He and his ilk have no business deciding what should be put in front of the nation's youth. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 23, 2003)

Come On. Are you trying to tell me that's the TV's and Network's fault that kids do this? Give me a break. If kids are going to do this crap, it's not because they saw it on TV. IT's because their upbringing has not taught them right from wrong and/or a mental instability they've already had.


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## raggie33 (Dec 23, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*this_is_nascar said:*
Come On. Are you trying to tell me that's the TV's and Network's fault that kids do this? Give me a break. If kids are going to do this crap, it's not because they saw it on TV. IT's because their upbringing has not taught them right from wrong and/or a mental instability they've already had.


[/ QUOTE ]
sir thats very true.


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## logicnerd411 (Dec 23, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*raggie33 said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*this_is_nascar said:*
Come On. Are you trying to tell me that's the TV's and Network's fault that kids do this? Give me a break. If kids are going to do this crap, it's not because they saw it on TV. IT's because their upbringing has not taught them right from wrong and/or a mental instability they've already had.


[/ QUOTE ]
sir thats very true. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll agree with that - theoretically I can see as much crap as I want to on the tube and know the difference between right and wrong - what your parents and school teaches you.

//Dan


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## Roy (Dec 23, 2003)

I'd also like to see a "day before" pill for the guys!


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## Mark_Larson (Dec 23, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*Roy said:*
I'd also like to see a "day before" pill for the guys! 

[/ QUOTE ] Now *there's* a surefire winner! Probably will exceed total Viagra sales in a few months. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(I'd buy it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif)


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## notos&w (Dec 23, 2003)

my thoughts on the matter...
if you do not want a biblical perspective, skip this post. I am a christian and do my best to live a life pleasing to my personal savior Jesus Christ. That entails being faithful to the absolute truth He has revealed through his Gospel. I refuse to set those insights aside.


first, contrary to another's assertion, this discussion cannot be undertaken w/o discussing abortion. Psalms 139:15 and a wealth of other verses teach us that God Almighty knows us before we are formed and while we are wrought together in that "secret" place. It is beyond dispute that God considers us "in being", to use a legal term, from the moment of conception - the uniting of a sperm and egg. any pill which hours or days later prevents the development of that fertilized egg is an abortive device. i do not support abortion and do not support this pill.

second, I pray that no one here gets their concept of right and wrong from what "school teaches you." Christian or not, I think most agree that our schools are completely w/o authority or power to instill values into children. they can lecture but only a parent (not a biological parent but an actual involved, caring, present parent) can instill an ingrained sense of right and wrong. it comes as a result of time, attention and genuine caring. 

third, the term "unwanted pregnancy" chills me to the bone. sure, some parents are too young or irresponsible to behave in a manner that would not result in this problem. but does not mean that these innocent children should die b/c his/her parents' lives would be inconvienced by his birth. * God knows and loves each one of us. No one is unwanted by Him who created us all. * We all must answer to God for our actions, including decisions based on selfishness. We should never substitute our own judgment for His. If He approved of abortion, He would have told us so. It is quite presumptious to assume we are capable of deciding what is better for our lives than an omnipotent, caring God.

fourth, there is some unseemly about this pill. to me, it seems to sanitize a very dirty deed, the taking of another's life. for the same reason i believe executions should be public, i believe that the true nature of what is occurring should be plain. this pill ends a life, a very young life, but a life nonetheless. 

i am sad for our country and our state of affairs. It is my public prayer that God will discipline us to bring our culture to a state more pleasing to Him. I also pray for all the young and misguided children and adults who have to face the choice of using this pill. God gave us the wonderful gift of sex to be enjoyed in the context of a life-long marriage b/w a man and a woman. Any other use deviates and perverts the beautiful experience sex is. Instead the result is its pollution - guilt, disease, remorse, broken families, broken hearts.


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 23, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*notos&w said:*
my thoughts on the matter...
if you do not want a biblical perspective, skip this post. I am a christian and do my best to live a life pleasing to my personal savior Jesus Christ. That entails being faithful to the absolute truth He has revealed through his Gospel. I refuse to set those insights aside.


first, contrary to another's assertion, this discussion cannot be undertaken w/o discussing abortion. Psalms 139:15 and a wealth of other verses teach us that God Almighty knows us before we are formed and while we are wrought together in that "secret" place. It is beyond dispute that God considers us "in being", to use a legal term, from the moment of conception - the uniting of a sperm and egg. any pill which hours or days later prevents the development of that fertilized egg is an abortive device. i do not support abortion and do not support this pill.

second, I pray that no one here gets their concept of right and wrong from what "school teaches you." Christian or not, I think most agree that our schools are completely w/o authority or power to instill values into children. they can lecture but only a parent (not a biological parent but an actual involved, caring, present parent) can instill an ingrained sense of right and wrong. it comes as a result of time, attention and genuine caring. 

third, the term "unwanted pregnancy" chills me to the bone. sure, some parents are too young or irresponsible to behave in a manner that would not result in this problem. but does not mean that these innocent children should die b/c his/her parents' lives would be inconvienced by his birth. * God knows and loves each one of us. No one is unwanted by Him who created us all. * We all must answer to God for our actions, including decisions based on selfishness. We should never substitute our own judgment for His. If He approved of abortion, He would have told us so. It is quite presumptious to assume we are capable of deciding what is better for our lives than an omnipotent, caring God.

fourth, there is some unseemly about this pill. to me, it seems to sanitize a very dirty deed, the taking of another's life. for the same reason i believe executions should be public, i believe that the true nature of what is occurring should be plain. this pill ends a life, a very young life, but a life nonetheless. 

i am sad for our country and our state of affairs. It is my public prayer that God will discipline us to bring our culture to a state more pleasing to Him. I also pray for all the young and misguided children and adults who have to face the choice of using this pill. God gave us the wonderful gift of sex to be enjoyed in the context of a life-long marriage b/w a man and a woman. Any other use deviates and perverts the beautiful experience sex is. Instead the result is its pollution - guilt, disease, remorse, broken families, broken hearts. 



[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even going to touch this one.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## Sean (Dec 23, 2003)

I'm a Christian too, since the Biblical perspective has been stated already, I'll post a bit differently:

It's condoning murder, plain and simple. What a "good" thing to teach children. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif If you don't want your child kill it, if your not sure if your going to get pregnant from having sex with a stranger, take the morning-after pill. 

How can a pregnancy be unwanted anyway? Do we not know were babies come from? What is the point of marriage then? Tradition? Health insurance? Cuz it's what "everyone else does", kinda like sex. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif


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