# COUNTERFEIT BATTS BLEW UP IN MY DEREELIGHT! i was a victim and this could happen to u



## halocon (Apr 17, 2008)

folks, i kid you not when i say that my flashlight blew up yesterday night. i was in my sub-basement with my dereelight and i heard this high pitched wheezing sound from the light which i have heard before but i just assumed it's the regulating circuit doing its job. so, im holding the light up and all of a sudden the tailcap switch shoots off and i hear a loud snap and smoke and sparks start shooting out from where the tailcap switch used to be. i dropped the light and went for the fire extinquisher. as im spraying it, the second battery pops and shoots more smoke and sparks. DO NOT USE THE BATTERIES THAT COME WITH THE DEREELIGHT! they're highly volatile! after that my whole house was filled with a smell of lithium. is there anything i can do about this? i only had that light for about a month....thanks


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## WadeF (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*

_*UPDATE: Since the OP has yet to correct his false statement in his post, DEREELIGHTS DO NOT COME WITH BATTERIES from the manufacturer. The OP used cheap counterfit batteries from another purchase and put them in a Dereelight where the batteries failed either from being junk, or being junk and not having matching voltage.*_ 

Last I checked batteries do not come with the Dereelights. Did you order from Dereelight directly, or somewhere else? Another dealer may have included cheap batteries.

You really should offer us more information, like where you got the light, what type of batteries you were using, who makes them, and what pill you were using.

If you shoved some cheap R123's into a Dereelight with a 4.2v pill that might spell trouble.


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## roymail (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*

I've not heard that before, please tell us more. The fault must be the batteries and not a design in the light. What type of batteries, what voltage, etc?


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## WadeF (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*

I'm guessing since he said it had two batteries in it, and he has been using it for a month, they are rechargable. Maybe they aren't protected cells and they weren't at the same voltage when installed.


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## carrot (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*

1) Air out your house as soon as possible.
2) Avoid contact with any chemicals that may have come out of the batteries, liquid or solid
3) If you have had prolonged exposure to the aforementioned or have touched any of these, see a doctor immediately. A search on CPF will bring up more useful information.


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## halocon (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*

i think i've made a mistake and i do apologize. as wadef said...the dereelight doesn't come with batteries. i had mistaken the M3 for the dereelight. my M3 came with batts. i was running the dereelight with standard Panasonic CR123As. i've been using those in all my lights and nothing has ever gone wrong. i have no idea why it would this time. that high pitch noise that comes from the dereelight raises a flag. i should clarify that i have been using the dereelight on and off for a month....very low usage and on the same set of batteries. this is in no way, an attack on dereelight. i just want to understand what went wrong.


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## Jarl (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*

Only use a class D fire extinguisher on lithium fires! It's a chemical, electrical and metal fire.... using the wrong extinguisher is major trouble time.


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## halocon (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*



carrot said:


> 1) Air out your house as soon as possible.
> 2) Avoid contact with any chemicals that may have come out of the batteries, liquid or solid
> 3) If you have had prolonged exposure to the aforementioned or have touched any of these, see a doctor immediately. A search on CPF will bring up more useful information.



thanks carrot! i called the non-emergency number and they told me that the smell is okay and to just air out the house. just wish i had one of those fire extinguishers that put out foam instead of some fog like substance. i would have slept better if the light was covered in foam.


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## orbital (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*

+

halocon, please edit your title and first post accordingly.


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## jake25 (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*

do you know what pill you had in your dereelight

there should be a sticker on the side of the lamp assembly


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## WadeF (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*

M3? Surefire M3? So the M3 came with Panasonic CR123's and you used them in your Dereelight? Please tell us which Dereelight pill you have, 2SM-1, 2SM-2, 2SD, 3SD, etc? 

Also were you mixing and matching your Panasonic CR123's? In two cell lights they should be voltage matched. If you put in a 3.3v CR123A and another that was at say 2.9V, you could run into problems.

Also, I agree with Orbital, edit your topic title and post as you are posting false information about Dereelight coming with bad batteries. This sounds more like user error than anything else. Waiting for more details.


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## RGB_LED (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*

Wow, I'm glad you weren't hurt by the flying tailcap or the vented gases.



WadeF said:


> ...Also were you mixing and matching your Panasonic CR123's? In two cell lights they should be voltage matched. If you put in a 3.3v CR123A and another that was at say 2.9V, you could run into problems....Waiting for more details.


+1. I'd be curious to hear details as I have a few panasonic, as well as other, primaries kicking around as back-ups. 

I also have a few primary CR123's from my glo-toobs that I've always been concerned about since they are not a well-known brand (yellow label, name unknown until I get home and take a closer look at them). Regardless, I plan on running them in single CR123 lights or in the glo-toobs themselves so that should minimize any issues.


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## Zenster (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*

Considering what happened, I'm confident in supposing that what happened is the dreaded "mismatched CR123 battery" syndrome.

You should do a search here on CPF because there has been extensive reporting on this. 
What happens is that if you use two batteries where one is more than 20% different in charge than the other one, and then you leave them on in a high current light (Deree or any other in it's class), the mismatch causes a violent and sudden meltdown.

Someone here on CPF has done some experiments and has shown that he can easily (and reliably) duplicate what happened here.

The only way to feel better about avoiding the situation is to check ALL batteries used as pairs (even "new" ones) and be sure they read similar voltage.
A good option is to get a ZTS meter which tests the batteries under load.

For my part, I don't trust *any* battery in a pair unless I've "ZTS'd" them first.


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## HKJ (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: batteries that come with the dereelight*



halocon said:


> i think i've made a mistake and i do apologize. as wadef said...the dereelight doesn't come with batteries. i had mistaken the M3 for the dereelight. my M3 came with batts. i was running the dereelight with standard Panasonic CR123As. i've been using those in all my lights and nothing has ever gone wrong. i have no idea why it would this time. that high pitch noise that comes from the dereelight raises a flag. i should clarify that i have been using the dereelight on and off for a month....very low usage and on the same set of batteries. this is in no way, an attack on dereelight. i just want to understand what went wrong.



Your could try taking some picture of the batteries and send a email to Panasonic and ask them why their batteries blows up  and see what they answer. :tinfoil:


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## fluke (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*

Where did you get your Panasonic's ???

There are some dodgy Chinese clones about, these can be recognised by the misspelt word Elsetric.


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## Fizz753 (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



fluke said:


> Where did you get your Panasonic's ???
> 
> There are some dodgy Chinese clones about, these can be recognised by the misspelt word Elsetric.



I was just going to ask the same question. In the process of buying lights here and there I ended up with 4 of the fake Panasonic's my self. Did not have a clue until I caught a thread about them here on CPF.


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## halocon (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



fluke said:


> Where did you get your Panasonic's ???
> 
> There are some dodgy Chinese clones about, these can be recognised by the misspelt word Elsetric.



OKAY! we have a winner! those are mine. [email protected]#$%^! but i've never had problems in the past. i wonder why....maybe i just got real "lucky." well, thanks for showing that to me. now i know better. got any brands you would recommend?


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## halocon (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*

GREAT....now i have a dead 125 dollar dereelight and a crapload of fake panasonic batteries. i knew that deal was too good to be true. NEVER AGAIN....


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## Citivolus (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*

Not to make light of the situation, but you may want to edit the post title to "counterfeit batteries blew up in my dereelight" or something similar, as at the moment it is still a tad misleading.


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## jake25 (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*

still waiting on the LA

i like how many times you've changed the title, however it could still not be the batteries


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## Federal LG (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



halocon said:


> ... got any brands you would recommend?



Yes.
I only use *Duracell Coopertop* OR *Surefire* CR123 primary cells.

I specially like Duracell because they print the expire date on it.


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## paulr (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*

Where did these "Panasonic Elestric" cells come from (what store or dealer)?


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## Brigadier (Apr 17, 2008)

> got any brands you would recommend


 
I have always had great luck with Rayovac CR123A's from Lighthound.


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## Daniel_sk (Apr 17, 2008)

Energizers are also good and have the expiration date printed with big letters. 
Panasonic is a TOP manufacturer, they manufacture batteries in the USA. You got fake chinese "panasonic" batteries. There is a rumour that Surefire are just re-branded Panasonic batteries.
If you need cheap and good CR123A, check out Battery Station CR123A - made in USA.


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## Daniel_sk (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



paulr said:


> Where did these "Panasonic Elestric" cells come from (what store or dealer)?


These are usually sold on eBay.


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## I came to the light... (Apr 17, 2008)

I really am sorry for the waste, just glad you're not hurt.

Try buying from Panasonic (reputable dealer) or even SF in the future. Those are two good CR123 brands that come to mind.


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## m2usa (Apr 17, 2008)

I'm glad that you're OK. Sounds like it was pretty bad. Do you have any photos of the Dereelight or dead batteries?


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## fluke (Apr 17, 2008)

I sent my fake Panasonic's back to Panasonic and they were good enough to replace them and ask where I got mine (Ebay).

The original thread i explained the fake cell in.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/169038


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## halocon (Apr 17, 2008)

m2usa said:


> I'm glad that you're OK. Sounds like it was pretty bad. Do you have any photos of the Dereelight or dead batteries?



no, but i can go home and take a pic of the "wreckage"


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## BVH (Apr 17, 2008)

I think it would be most helpful to newbies (and maybe for some of us oldies) to be educated/re-educated on the topic of mis-matched lithium cells and counterfeit cells possibly causing the dreaded "rapid vent with flame" event. I can't think of an automated/timed way to do it though. Any thoughts out there?


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## halocon (Apr 17, 2008)

BVH said:


> I think it would be most helpful to newbies (and maybe for some of us oldies) to be educated/re-educated on the topic of mis-matched lithium cells and counterfeit cells possibly causing the dreaded "rapid vent with flame" event. I can't think of an automated/timed way to do it though. Any thoughts out there?



i guess i failed to mention the fact that i didn't know these were counterfeit. but i have learned my lesson and i will be throwing out all those batteries when i get home. the money saved from buying those batteries is not worth losing my house and life.


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## paulr (Apr 17, 2008)

halocon said:


> i guess i failed to mention the fact that i didn't know these were counterfeit. but i have learned my lesson and i will be throwing out all those batteries when i get home. the money saved from buying those batteries is not worth losing my house and life.


Please let us know where you got them. There is no need to protect the seller of the counterfeit batteries.


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## halocon (Apr 17, 2008)

paulr said:


> Please let us know where you got them. There is no need to protect the seller of the counterfeit batteries.



im not out to protect anyone. LOL. that could have burned my house down. the seller is some chinese dude in hong kong on some street near a district called Mong Kwok. yeah....that's about all the info i can really give you guys. i should have known better. but those damn things look really authentic!


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Federal LG said:


> Yes.
> I only use *Duracell Coopertop* OR *Surefire* CR123 primary cells.
> 
> I specially like Duracell because they print the expire date on it.


SureFire batteries are re-branded Panasonics.

Sanyo and Energizer also make excellent CR123s.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 17, 2008)

halocon said:


> im not out to protect anyone. LOL. that could have burned my house down. the seller is some chinese dude in hong kong on some street near a district called Mong Kwok. yeah....that's about all the info i can really give you guys. i should have known better. but those damn things look really authentic!


Did you expect to receive genuine Panasonic CR123s from Panasonic of America or Japan from some chinese street vendor in HK, especially at that price?

If it is too good to be true...


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## halocon (Apr 17, 2008)

yeah, lesson learned.


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## WadeF (Apr 17, 2008)

Can you please edit your post to remove this false statement "DO NOT USE THE BATTERIES THAT COME WITH THE DEREELIGHT"

Glad you didn't get hurt. Wish we could have a better way of getting the word out about avoiding cheap lithiums and how to properly handle the good ones. 

Maybe CPF should have a big "BATTERY SAFETY" graphic at the top that links to a topic about battery safety.


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## Federal LG (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> SureFire batteries are re-branded Panasonics.



What ?!?

Surefire cells are Panasonic cells ? 
I mean, they just change the cell "clothes" ?


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## fleegs (Apr 17, 2008)

halocon;2442623...i have learned my lesson and i will be throwing out all those batteries when i get home. the money saved from buying those batteries is not worth losing my house and life.[/QUOTE said:


> FYI
> 
> I believe that these have requirements that go beyond the normal trash disposal.
> 
> ...


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## RGB_LED (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



fluke said:


> Where did you get your Panasonic's ???
> 
> There are some dodgy Chinese clones about, these can be recognised by the misspelt word Elsetric.


:twothumbsThanks fluke, good catch and great info for us all! I'm going to check mine right now to see if they too are misspelled.


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## Crenshaw (Apr 18, 2008)

IIRC, almost all the brand name Cr123As are re-packaged panasonics..

Crenshaw


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## Albinoni (Apr 18, 2008)

Well here's the fake ones on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/12-Panasonic...ryZ43436QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

(comment removed by moderator)

*Edit by moderator: Albinoni, an inordinate amount of moderator time seems to be spent warning you about infractions of the rules. This time it for using crude and profane language.*


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## Albinoni (Apr 18, 2008)

I also highly reccomend Sanyo CR123's as well and I think they also manufacture their own.


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## Burgess (Apr 18, 2008)

to halocon --


Thankfully, there was no harm done to you or your home.

:thumbsup:


Hopefully, this will serve as a "wake-up call" for everyone
to carefully check our CR123A cells.

_


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## Crenshaw (Apr 18, 2008)

Albinoni said:


> Well here's the fake ones on Ebay:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/12-Panasonic...ryZ43436QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> 
> *crude content of quote removed by moderator*


he himself may not know the inherent danger of CR123As, an informative email might be alot better then a pile of sh** 

Crenshaw


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## Burgess (Apr 18, 2008)

good point, Crenshaw.

:twothumbs



After all, if someone was TRYING to deceive us,

then they'd post photos of the REAL THING, eh ?



Just a thought.

_


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## Daniel_sk (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Federal LG said:


> What ?!?
> 
> Surefire cells are Panasonic cells ?
> I mean, they just change the cell "clothes" ?


I am pretty sure. Do you think that Surefire would build it's own battery factory to produce CR123A batteries? That would be too expensive.


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## mikekoz (Apr 18, 2008)

Albinoni said:


> Well here's the fake ones on Ebay:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/12-Panasonic...ryZ43436QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


 

Interesting that the word "electric" on the sample photo on this post on Ebay is spelled correctly. Do some actual Panasonic CR123's look like these? I have a lot of Panasonic's, but they look completely different. If some do look like these, they could be the real thing :shrug:


Mike


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## mikekoz (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Federal LG said:


> What ?!?
> 
> Surefire cells are Panasonic cells ?
> I mean, they just change the cell "clothes" ?


 
This is nothing new. I worked for Radio Shack for 11 years and at the time, their alkaline batteries were just "reclothed" Evereadys!

Mike


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## fluke (Apr 18, 2008)

mikekoz said:


> Interesting that the word "electric" on the sample photo on this post on Ebay is spelled correctly. Do some actual Panasonic CR123's look like these? I have a lot of Panasonic's, but they look completely different. If some do look like these, they could be the real thing :shrug:
> 
> 
> Mike



I think they did look like that, not sure they do now, Panasonic told me they take the fakes seriously due to the inherent dangers.

Strange how that seller makes a point of showing a battery with the correct spelling ???

Then again maybe the fakers have corrected their mistake.


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## jumpstat (Apr 18, 2008)

Where batteries are concerned IMO get fresh and reputable ones..


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## mikekoz (Apr 18, 2008)

Stories like this are why I keep leaning towards just buying lights that use more standard batteries. Some exceptions to this would be lights that use a single 18560 or CR123a. I think these would be much safer but I could be wrong. I have never read about a single lithium or Lion battery exploding in a flashlight. I am glad the OP is OK!

Mike


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## Kilovolt (Apr 18, 2008)

mikekoz said:


> Interesting that the word "electric" on the sample photo on this post on Ebay is spelled correctly. Do some actual Panasonic CR123's look like these? I have a lot of Panasonic's, but they look completely different. If some do look like these, they could be the real thing :shrug:


 

After some Photoshopping of the ebay picture I am not so sure that the spelling is right, to my eyes it is written 'elestric':







I do have some Panasonic CR2 I bought recently from DX and they look exactly like these but the spelling on them is correct. No explosions so far.....


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 18, 2008)

mikekoz said:


> Stories like this are why I keep leaning towards just buying lights that use more standard batteries. Some exceptions to this would be lights that use a single 18560 or CR123a. I think these would be much safer but I could be wrong. I have never read about a single lithium or Lion battery exploding in a flashlight. I am glad the OP is OK!
> 
> Mike


Don't buy your batteries from a ********, stick with reputable dealers and you'll have no problems.

Would you feed your family with food bought from a completely unknown vendor asking for little money ? Then why don't people do the same with their batteries and other products? That's a basic rule and it's not hard to follow.


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## Stainz (Apr 18, 2008)

Yeah, dissimilar internal resistance cells in series with a high current draw load are a recipe for disaster. 

My favorite illegal copies were from around five years ago - the little glass crystals, maybe 3"-4" tall by 1" -2" square, with a laser etch image inside were becoming available in various sales areas for ~$4-$7 - with a plastic base containing a carousel of colored LEDs that changed randomly - and were powered by 4 AAs - 'Copper-top Alkalines'. They were perfect copies - except for the 'Dunacell' written on them. The base & batteries were $1!

I like Surefire's Li cells. Whoever makes them for them, they must be good. SF has made incandescent lights that will dump those little guys, some lights taking bunches of them, in less than hour - sometimes, way less - for years. They must be good! I ordered 3 dozen ($21/12) from them last month - with a $2 surcharge for second day, it was still less than $70 delivered - and they arrived on the second day - not bad from CA to AL.

It isn't fun having anything blow up in your hand, but a flashlight is the last thing we think of as a dangerous product. My bet is that the cells were mismatched. I am glad you were uninjured.

Stainz


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## Alan (Apr 18, 2008)

halocon said:


> im not out to protect anyone. LOL. that could have burned my house down. the seller is some chinese dude in hong kong on some street near a district called Mong Kwok. yeah....that's about all the info i can really give you guys. i should have known better. but those damn things look really authentic!



You could PM me that I might report this to local Police (yes, I live in HK).

Alan


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## Alan (Apr 18, 2008)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Did you expect to receive genuine Panasonic CR123s from Panasonic of America or Japan from some chinese street vendor in HK, especially at that price?
> 
> If it is too good to be true...



I have been using genuine Panasonic CR123A for years at US$1.28 (HK$10) in Hong Kong. Fake Panasonic cost half of its price.

Alan


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## Alan (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Federal LG said:


> What ?!?
> 
> Surefire cells are Panasonic cells ?
> I mean, they just change the cell "clothes" ?



Do you think that Surefire would build their own production facility to build small quantity just for their own sales???

Picture this, Apple, HP, Dell ... etc are all made through contractors. Surefire is tiny compare to these corps.

Alan


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## Federal LG (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Alan said:


> Do you think that Surefire would build their own production facility to build small quantity just for their own sales???
> 
> Picture this, Apple, HP, Dell ... etc are all made through contractors. Surefire is tiny compare to these corps.
> 
> Alan



Yes, I do!
I mean... I thought their cells were genuine *Surefire* cells...


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## parnass (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Federal LG said:


> Yes.
> I only use *Duracell Coopertop* OR *Surefire* CR123 primary cells...



Streamlight branded CR123A batteries are good, too. Made in USA.


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## LED-holic (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*

Do people make counterfeit AA / AAA batteries too?


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## mikekoz (Apr 18, 2008)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Don't buy your batteries from a ********, stick with reputable dealers and you'll have no problems.
> 
> Would you feed your family with food bought from a completely unknown vendor asking for little money ? Then why don't people do the same with their batteries and other products? That's a basic rule and it's not hard to follow.


 

Thank you for the advice! I do only buy brand name CR123's. I have mainly Panasonic's, Evereadys, Duracells, and Surefires. I only use the few Chinese made batteries in single cell lights. Heck, I do not even buy stuff offshore!

Mike


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Federal LG said:


> Yes, I do!
> I mean... I thought their cells were genuine *Surefire* cells...


That's just nonsense. Volkswagem makes Audi vehicles, But I wouldn't dare to say they are not genuine Audi cars, only because volks design and produce them.

They are 100% genuine SureFire cells as long as SureFire is legally selling them. They are not stealing anything nor infringing any patent or intellectual property rights. They are made in the USA so I'm good with that.


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## kromeke (Apr 18, 2008)

When Batterystation started selling domestic (USA) made 123s I now buy them there. I believe they are made by Rayovac for Batterystation.com. 

At the time I placed my last order with them, they didn't have Batterystation branded cells, they were substituting Rayovac until they started stocking the Batterystation brand. So I got 20 cells @ 1.25 each (CPF discount).

Batterystation's rep took a hit when their Chinese cells were giving some problems. Now that they sell domestic batteries, I'm a customer again. 

I think that they have been responsive to demand, their website says that they switched to a domestic mfg'r so they could sell to the military.


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## NextLight (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Federal LG said:


> I mean... I thought their cells were genuine *Surefire* cells...



IMO, There is nothing in this thread to suggest Surefire cells are not "genuine."

Surefire used their considerable engineering resources and bulk purchasing power to deliver cost effective CR123A cells that are most suitable to the task of reliably driving high output flashlights, for users who have lives depending on them. As many have discovered (some the hard way) that last part can apply to all of us. 

Several CPF members have done extensive research on different manufacturers CR123A cell capabilities. With the available data and an engineering degree, one can sometimes pick a better cell for a single specific lighting application. But doing so is a non-trivial task.

As to Surefire owning the factory where its cells are made, that only makes sense if making batteries is (1) a core competency, (2) trade secret, and/or (3) provides a competitive advantage based on economy of scale. None of those are the case. So, Surefire owning the factory would just be a wast of capital, which could be better utilized elsewhere.

Whether Surefire cells are "different" beyond the label, or identical to some other brand we recognize: Surefire cells are recognized as a safe and sound choice for high performance lighting applications. They are available to Surefire customers thru the same distribution channels as the lights for which the batteries are intended. Today Surefire bulk battery prices are a tiny fraction of what users would commonly pay at retail at most department stores (1/7th of what Wal-Mart USA charged a decade ago) but again, price is just ONE variable. 

Experience has shown that making the wrong Lithium family battery choice can quickly prove financially unsound, or worse, a family tragedy. Choose carefully.


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## Federal LG (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> That's just nonsense. Volkswagem makes Audi vehicles, But I wouldn't dare to say they are not genuine Audi cars, only because volks design and produce them.
> 
> They are 100% genuine SureFire cells as long as SureFire is legally selling them. They are not stealing anything nor infringing any patent or intellectual property rights. They are made in the USA so I'm good with that.



Your analogy is not applicable. Audi car´s inside components are different from VW car´s inside components.
An Audi car *IS NOT* a VW car with just an Audi body. 
(How I know that ? Half of my family works at Audi)


And If I learn correct, a Surefire cell *IS* a Panasonic cell with the Surefire "red clothes".
I think Panasonic cells are great, so this is not a problem. I just said I thought SF cells are all made by Surefire. Inner and outer body!

And if SF sells Panasonic cells clothed as SF cells, that´s because they do believe in Panasonic cells quality! If they do believe, so I´m gonna trust them too... Like I said in a previous post, I just use primary Duracell and Surefire cells.

Chill out...


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## Federal LG (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



NextLight said:


> Whether Surefire cells are "different" beyond the label, or identical to some other brand we recognize: Surefire cells are recognized as a safe and sound choice for high performance lighting applications.... Choose carefully.



Thanks for the tips, NextLight. I agree with that, and that´s why I choose SF and Duracell cells. 

I just thought that it was SF factory that produce them, not just "clothe" them in a red suit.


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## HKJ (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Federal LG said:


> And if SF sells Panasonic cells clothed as SF cells, that´s because they do believe in Panasonic cells quality! If they do believe, so I´m gonna trust them too... Like I said in a previous post, I just use primary Duracell and Surefire cells.



Who or where a cell is made, does not really define the quality.
Surefire has some specifications the cells must fullfill, this can be standard Panasonic cells or it could be better/worse quality cells, only Surefire and Panasonic would know. Surefire could also change to another supplier if Panasonic raises the price or deliver to low quality.

The game of owning a brand, but not a factory, is that your can get it from whoever deliver the required quality for the lowest price.


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## Dead_Nuts (Apr 18, 2008)

kromeke said:


> When Batterystation started selling domestic (USA) made 123s I now buy them there. I believe they are made by Rayovac for Batterystation.com.
> 
> At the time I placed my last order with them, they didn't have Batterystation branded cells, they were substituting Rayovac until they started stocking the Batterystation brand. So I got 20 cells @ 1.25 each (CPF discount).
> 
> ...



This happened to me, also. RayoVacs are running great. I only buy big brand names (except fot Battery Station). I would also suggest voltage testing prior to usage. What I do is use carriers and make sure that no adjacent batteries are off by more than .15v. This represents 5% of a nominal 3v battery. But what I've found with new, quality brand batteries is that I'm able to keep the differences to less than .1v in almost all cases. If I get one that's way off, I just throw it away - it's not worth risking the dreaded RVwF (Rapid Vent with Flame) event; aka "blowing up!"


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## mikekoz (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



HKJ said:


> Who or where a cell is made, does not really define the quality.
> Surefire has some specifications the cells must fullfill, this can be standard Panasonic cells or it could be better/worse quality cells, only Surefire and Panasonic would know. Surefire could also change to another supplier if Panasonic raises the price or deliver to low quality.
> 
> The game of owning a brand, but not a factory, is that your can get it from whoever deliver the required quality for the lowest price.


 

This is very true! Just because another manufacturer makes a product for a company, that does not mean it is the same. Surefire may be giving Panasonic certain specifications thay want the batteries to meet since it will have their name on it, and that quality is what the end user will expect since it has the Surefire name on it. I used to have scanning radios with the Radio Shack name on them, but they were made by Uniden. The RS radios were NOTHING like anything Uniden made with their name on it because they were made the way RS wanted them. So, in this case, even though Surefire did not make the batteries, it is still their product and they support it, not Panasonic. Just my two cents!!

Mike


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## Alan (Apr 19, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



LED-holic said:


> Do people make counterfeit AA / AAA batteries too?



Yes, there was a lot of fake energizer AA (alkaline) before, I didn't see it in recent years. I guess they found faking CR123A is more profitable Nonetheless, I haven't seen any fake NiMH cells though.

Alan


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## Alan (Apr 19, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



HKJ said:


> Who or where a cell is made, does not really define the quality.
> Surefire has some specifications the cells must fullfill, this can be standard Panasonic cells or it could be better/worse quality cells, only Surefire and Panasonic would know. Surefire could also change to another supplier if Panasonic raises the price or deliver to low quality.
> 
> The game of owning a brand, but not a factory, is that your can get it from whoever deliver the required quality for the lowest price.



Due to Surefire purchase power (volume sold to military), they could request special specification from the manufacturer, it means it is not necessarily be new cloth over someone's product. Besides that, once they have their own brand, they could switch to other manufacturer should they see fit.

Alan


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## Ny0ng1 (Apr 20, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Alan said:


> Yes, there was a lot of fake energizer AA (alkaline) before, I didn't see it in recent years. I guess they found faking CR123A is more profitable Nonetheless, I haven't seen any fake NiMH cells though.
> 
> Alan



Not so long ago, perhaps 2 months, i saw fake GP NiMH cells. They look horrible and the one giving away the authenticity for me were the _weight _of the batteries.
Generally fake AA/AAA and NiMH cells have a fraction of the real weight of the battery they are trying to imitate. 
Better clones have a better clothing and very difficult to compare if not the weight giving away their identity.
Of course some of the fakes are so bad that i can easily _bend_ the whole battery with just my fingers or at least put _dents_ on it.

becareful with them, especially if you re going to recharge them!


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 20, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Alan said:


> Yes, there was a lot of fake energizer AA (alkaline) before, I didn't see it in recent years. I guess they found faking CR123A is more profitable Nonetheless, I haven't seen any fake NiMH cells though.
> 
> Alan


There are tons of fake Sony NiMHs from China. Check the battery section... Some of them look very well made like the real thing, but they won't hold a charge no matter what you do.
:thumbsdow


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## labrat (Apr 20, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Ny0ng1 said:


> Not so long ago, perhaps 2 months, i saw fake GP NiMH cells. They look horrible and the one giving away the authenticity for me were the _weight _of the batteries.
> Generally fake AA/AAA and NiMH cells have a fraction of the real weight of the battery they are trying to imitate.
> Better clones have a better clothing and very difficult to compare if not the weight giving away their identity.
> Of course some of the fakes are so bad that i can easily _bend_ the whole battery with just my fingers or at least put _dents_ on it.
> ...


 
I got some fake GP NiMH AAA 1100 mAh cells in Bangkok now almost 2 years ago.
Marked "Produced in Singapore"!
Packet, jacket, weight; all felt well.
Not very cheap either, before some serious haggling brought the price down!
Lasted only a couple of recharges before they no longer took any charge!
And very close inspection/undressing of the batteries showed that the cells inside where not similar in all of the batteries; there were two distinctly different types of cells used.
Close inspection also showed that the vents/plastic chip around the positive button of the battery were not as precisely made as the original, and were also not made of plastic but of paper/cardboard!
That was what could have given them away in the first check, if I had known what to look for!
But lesson learned, I don't buy batteries from stalls in Phantip in Bangkok any more!
I also bought a set of "Sony LR123 Li-Ion 1200mAh Rechargeable" batteries, in a two-pack together with a charger.
Not especially cheap either, bought in a small shop selling flashlights, chargers and batteries only, and inside a renowned mall in Bangkok.
These cells also have some misprintings on them, and 1200 mAh capacity RCR123's I have never seen elsewhere!
The charger was no good, only brought the voltage up to 3.87 Volts, so that one was soon replaced with a Nano charger.
These cells have functioned without any problems!
And they seem to be better at delivering high current than my RCR123 non-protected cells from Ultrafire!
And works good in a pair, always stopping within +/- 0.01 Volts of remaining voltage when down to around 3 Volts after use.
So there are good, and no-good, fakes!
But there is always a risk using fakes/no-brand cells, so I do prefer the known/reputed cells!
In my experience, I prefer Sanyo Lithiums over Surefire Lithiums, as they have had less numbers of failing cells than the Surefires I have had!
But I have not used more than maybe 30 Lithiums all in all, so I might have been lucky/unlucky!


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## WildChild (Apr 20, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



LED-holic said:


> Do people make counterfeit AA / AAA batteries too?



Yes, about 50 000 counterfeit Duracell were seized last year in a small city where I live. We could find those in dollar stores and drug stores (I think there are still a few on the shelf). At TV, they said there was many reports of explosion with those and very poor capacity. They were packaged in some kind of shrinked plastic with a label that wasn't Duracell at all, sold at $1 for 2, instead of the usual $3 for the same quantity for genuine Duracell.


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## WildChild (Apr 20, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



Alan said:


> Due to Surefire purchase power (volume sold to military), they could request special specification from the manufacturer, it means it is not necessarily be new cloth over someone's product. Besides that, once they have their own brand, they could switch to other manufacturer should they see fit.
> 
> Alan



Runtime test made by CPF member chevrofreak recently, see how the Panasonic, Rayovac and SureFire all act the same:


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## Daniel_sk (Apr 20, 2008)

*Re: my dereelight blew up in my hands!*



WildChild said:


> Runtime test made by CPF member chevrofreak recently, see how the Panasonic, Rayovac and SureFire all act the same:


 
Interesting test. It would be great if there was a line for the new Battery Station batteries, which are also made in the US. These are *probably* made by Panasonic too.


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## Pepper (Apr 20, 2008)

Many things can be made as "knock offs". The first ones I remember were the fake Rolex watches with the tip off being the second hand clicked instead of swinging. Than their are of course "girly boys" in Thailand....but that's a different story .


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## DM51 (Apr 20, 2008)

Several points.

1. This thread was posted in the wrong forum. It is not about a failure of a light, it is about counterfeit cells. It belongs in the Batteries section, so I will be moving it there when I have finished this post.

2. There have been a number of similar threads, but each incident deserves a good airing, if only to drive home the point (once again) that buying cheap junk cells from eBay or other dubious sources is just asking for trouble. It is to be hoped that as many people as possible will read this thread and be made aware of the dangers of using counterfeit cells. However, as sure as night follows day, in a month or two there will be another very similar thread about an almost identical incident, and the whole process will begin again.

3. Some unnecessarily crude and offensive language has crept in here, in one or two posts. *Albinoni*, I have edited your post #42, it being the worst example. You are warned that any further occurrence will earn you time off.

4. The topic is counterfeit cells, how to spot them, and the dangers of using them. Please continue…


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## 2manybikes (Apr 20, 2008)

mikekoz said:


> I have never read about a single lithium or Lion battery exploding in a flashlight. I am glad the OP is OK!
> 
> Mike


 
It has hapened to me. A non rechargeable 123A. I have read about one or two others, but I don't remember where. Probably here.
There are many different things that can cause this. Mine probably was trying to run the light on turbo when the battery did not have enough power. When Turbo stopped working I thought it might have been a switch issue, so I switched turbo on and off a few times. I did not know it was most likely a low battery at the time. I believe I may hve been OK if I stopped using the light, but there's no way to be 100% sure.


It's impossible to identify exactly what happens to all vented or damaged batteries.


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## Turbo DV8 (Apr 20, 2008)

halocon said:


> The seller is some chinese dude in hong kong on some street near a district called Mong Kwok.


 
What a dupe you are!  I got a great deal on some gold necklaces stamped 14K from some dude standing on the street corner in Tiajuana. I know for a fact they are not fake gold because the yellow gold has rubbed off to reveal the more precious white gold underneath. I think...:thinking:


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