# Battle in the woods: XML King of Throw vs. HIDs



## ma_sha1 (Jun 27, 2011)

This is my last beam shots in the dark, cold woods of Maine. I am leaving Maine after 7 years, this is my way of of saying goodby :devil:


*The Lights*:

*1. XML Shorty King-of-Throw*: This lights is 1D mag, 3" turbo head with SMO, XML-U2 over driven to 4.2 Amp, reaching 127,000 lux @ 1 meter, an astonishing throw for reflector based led lights. For reference, one of the best "Thrower" Catapult XML is 40-45,000 [email protected] 1 meter. The best commercial thrower SR-90 is 100-125,000 lux @ 1 meter
*The build thread here*:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Shorty-XML-King-of-Throw-127-000-lux-1-meter

*2*. *Firefox 1: World's smallest 35W HID*:
This is a custom HID by a user in China flashlight forum: shoudian.com, it has achieved cult status on shoudian.com, almost every 3 posts there on their HID sub forum were about firefoxes. 

Only about 100 were made in 2009, their new version FF2 is much bigger.
This is the only one that escaped China into the US of A, or possibly the only one in North America/Europe:
*More details here*: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?313011-My-Fire-foxes-35W-amp-40W-HID


*3. Ultimate Microfire 35W HID clone* from 35W/28W HID SSK-33 cut down 
Some advantage over Microfire 35W HID includes lower Kelvin, dual mode and longer run time (battery pack re-done using 3x panasonic 2900mah 18650s an improved safety with less number of rechargable li-ions.
*The build thread here:*
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?314267-XECCON-SSK-33-HA-HID-35W-28W-Mod-to-a-Shorty!

*
From left to right:*
Firefox 1; XML- mag 1D, SSK-33 HID "Shorty". I couldn't get over how small the Firefox is, insainely small for 35W HID, making my SSK-33 HID shorty looks like a giant 














*
Beam shots are about 250 feet to the end of the woods.*
All are 1" exposure, ISO 200, F3.3 before zoom & F5.1 after zoom.

*Control shot: * 
My around the house custom P7, 2.8A, 40mm OP reflector,
my estimate is about 20,000 lux @ 1 meter.




*
XML King of throw: *
Throw:..............Measured 127,000 lux @ 1 meter, 
Brightness:,......Estimated ~ 1500 lumens





*SSK-33 HID shorty in 35W mode*: 
Throw: Measured 135,000 lux @ 1 meter
Brightness: 3500 lumens from spec sheet





*Firefox 1, world's smallest 35W HID*
Throw: Not Measured 
Brightness: 3200 lumens from spec sheet






*XML King of throw-Zoomed in*





*SSK-33 HID shorty Zoomed in*: 





*Firefox 1, world's smallest 35W HID*--Zoomed in





*Summary*
The dark wood just eat up lumens, the higher lumens/larger beam spot
from HIDs are making them the obvious better choice over the XML for walk-in the woods. The winner is the two HIDs. *The SSK-33 shorty throws a bit further but the FireFox 1 shows more color & details.


Woods Penetration Test.--High CRI needed

*Once I started walking along the trail, I *started to have a need to look into what's behind the trees, it's creepy!* 

The XML did not paticipate in this test, as it's obvious that the XML color redition is poor & could not show tree trunks well.

In this application, the Firefox 1's Higher CRI allows viewing of what's behind the trees much better that the SSK-33 (which is much better than XML already).

*SSK-33*





*Fire Fox 1.*





*The Winner: *
FireFox 1, the ultimate flashlight to take into dark woods...
This light is well worth my efforts spent on 2 month of international Fox hunt...


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## ^Gurthang (Jun 27, 2011)

Great stuff Sha, great pics and great lights. Sorry to read that you're leaving Maine. Keep pushing those lumens, I'll look forward to your next project.


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks! 

I'll miss Maine for sure. My next project, the DIY 260W short arc Tank light, will be on hold for a while during this transition. 
But one thing for sure, sooner or later, it'll happen, I've already paid $700 for the 9.5 inch Short arc reflector, just waiting for it to be made. there's no turning back...


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## kramer5150 (Jun 28, 2011)

Nice demonstration. What I love about DIY-HID is that you can readily (and cheaply) get 4000-4300 color temps (warm), just as easily as the angry blues and pale whites... and doing so gains you bulb lumens (slightly). Its the opposite with LEDs.

dang thats a _tiny _HID.


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 29, 2011)

I agree, I couldn't have made an HID this small myself, the tiny ballast is not available anywhere.

The SSK-33 is suppose to be 5000K, the Fire Fox 5500K, by the tint, I think the SSK-33 is really just the 
stock 6000K bulb, the seller told me it's 5000K (upon special request), but I have a hard time believe it now.

The fire fox also appears to have higher CRI, which is even much more obvious in person, 
as I can see so much better in the woods behind the front line of trees with the Firefox over the brighter SSK-33 shorty.

This is the situation that more lumens & higher CRI really made Firefox shine over the XML LED thrower,
given another application, such as hunting or simply spotting animals long range, throw may become the the only thing that matters.

The XML will actually out throw the fire fox. I probably will mod the SSK-33 into a short arc shorty, perhaps take them for another shoot out for long range spotting. The firefox clearly wins over the SSK-33 in the mid range/dark woods application, making the SSK-33 HID an redundant procession.


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## lucca brassi (Jun 29, 2011)

HID 35W could not benefit it's full light power with such small parabola ! It is known that HID with 21 , 24W .VS. 35W & small parabola have almost same light performances.

(special is that clear under water )


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 29, 2011)

lucca brassi said:


> It is known that HID with 21 , 24W .VS. 35W & small parabola have almost same light performances.


 
I am sorry, but this is completely not true. lower power HIDs, such as 24W or less has much lower efficiency,
resulting much lower performance vs. standard 35W. The SSK-33 did 135,000 lux @ 1 meter, 
24W HIDs usually only do 40-45,000 lux @ 1 meter.
*
lux measurements of 24w vs 35W HID here: *
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ated-Short-Arc-amp-HID-spotlight-Lux-readings

There are some exceptions, some expensive models of 20/24w HID use better ballast and custom shorter arc HID bulb, achieving "throw" similar to 35W HID, they are exceptions, not the rule.

Smaller reflector= bigger beam spot. In the wood, the bigger beam spot prove to be beneficial as the broader coverage in the creepy woods becomes more important than throw.


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## hron61 (Jun 29, 2011)

good luck on your move ma. are you heading to the sunbelt to thaw?


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 29, 2011)

Thanks!

I am moving to Maryland. perhaps, beam shots to the Washington Monument ...


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## Obijuan Kenobe (Jun 29, 2011)

Yeah, for me...that tint is the deal breaker. Damn fine tint on the HID.

obi


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## bigchelis (Jun 29, 2011)

Hi Ma_Sha1,

What about this: 14W super thrower that make a laser like beam. Probably not as usefull. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?312123-14w-HID-Maglite-super-thrower-330-000-lux!

Awesome pictures and I look forward to you mocking this one up to trully throw. by the way I tried to purchase that DEFT hosts a DX and they been out of stock for a while, so I havent been able to copy that build of yours.

bigC


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 29, 2011)

Big C,

That 14W HID will have a thin beam for sure, at 800 lumens, that's about half of my XML thrower lumen @ 4.2A.You can see the XML has a relatively thin beam already. The anode is tiny, so anode focus is a needle spot.

The 14W HID is based on RA's 10W HID anode focus, the corona around the spot has about 20% of the center brightness, the corona could be useful with estimated 330/5 =66,[email protected] 1meter.

*Ra's Mini HID Anode focus lux distribution:*





I recently sold my UHP Short arc surefire beast Killa, which is 500,000 lux @ 1 meter with my estimation of 2000 lumens, even that has a pretty thin beam by the center spot. (It's got bigger spot than anode focus, as its AC bulb not DC bulb). At given throw, a decent sized hot spot will turn a toy into a more useful tool. The XML spot looks small in this shoot out, but it'll be at least 10x the size of the anode focus HID spot. Relatively speaking, the XML might be more useful.

After achieving super throw, I've grown to appreciate the "lumens in the center beam", not total lumens & not pure lux: Lux + "lumens in the spot" = ultimate utility

For the Dx host, you can get it from ebay , search 119led flashlight.


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## mvyrmnd (Jun 30, 2011)

That FireFox is a good looking little light. I hope they become more readily available.


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## HarryN (Jun 30, 2011)

Nice lights. Thanks for the info, pics and comparisons.

Harry


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 3, 2011)

Came across a shoot out between Olight SR90 and Firefox 1 on another forum, 
I figure it would be a good place to collect it for reference:

SR90






Firefox 1.


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