# Got Low T



## Nitro (Jan 22, 2008)

I've been living with major symptoms of "Low Testosterone" for over a year now. 

Memory/Concentration Issues
Fatigue/Sleep Problems
Anxiety/Depression
Low Libido/ED
Feel Old

Last year was one of the worst years of my life, and it's finally coming to an end. I'm starting treatment next week, and I can hardly believe it. I was diagnosed months ago, but I had other issues to deal with first.

Just wondering if any other guys out there have been diagnosed with, and/or have similar symptoms.


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## Nitroz (Jan 22, 2008)

I had alot of symtoms like that and then some. The doctor found out that I was B12 deficient, it was the worst time of my life and I am glad it is behind me now.

So do you get shots for this problem?

I hope this will be your road to recovery. When the body starts running down, and strange things happen that doctors can't answer, it can become frustrating. Good luck, and keep us updated.


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## Nitroz (Jan 22, 2008)

Double post.


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## Nitro (Jan 23, 2008)

Nitroz said:


> I had alot of symtoms like that and then some. The doctor found out that I was B12 deficient, it was the worst time of my life and I am glad it is behind me now.
> 
> So do you get shots for this problem?
> 
> I hope this will be your road to recovery. When the body starts running down, and strange things happen that doctors can't answer, it can become frustrating. Good luck, and keep us updated.


 
B12 deficiency was one of the many things I thought I had. I tell ya I learned alot about this and many other medical conditions, while doing research over the past year. I've been to see half a dozen doctors before I finally found one to treat it correctly.

Unfortunately not many doctors know how to test for, or treat Low T correctly. Just becuase your T is in the "normal" range doesn't mean it's normal for your age. When they hear Low Libido or ED, the first thing they do is prescribe Viagra. And the doctors who do treat Low T, just slap you with Androgel and send you on your way. 

I'll be using a gel, and doing shots. The gel is similar to Androgel, but more concentrated, to raise T directly. The shots are HCG, which stimulate the testicles to create more T, and keep them working. What a lot of doctors fail to do is use HGC. Men with Secondary Hypogonadism (which is what I have) need to be on HCG also. Many men don't like the thought of giving themself a shot. However, if HGC isn't used, the testicles will atrophy (shrink up and stop working completely).


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## MarNav1 (Jan 23, 2008)

Any Internet sites/info/links?


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## Nitroz (Jan 23, 2008)

Nitro said:


> B12 deficiency was one of the many things I thought I had. I tell ya I learned alot about this and many other medical conditions, while doing research over the past year. I've been to see half a dozen doctors before I finally found one to treat it correctly.
> 
> Unfortunately not many doctors know how to test for, or treat Low T correctly. Just becuase your T is in the "normal" range doesn't mean it's normal for your age. When they hear Low Libido or ED, the first thing they do is prescribe Viagra. And the doctors who do treat Low T, just slap you with Androgel and send you on your way.
> 
> I'll be using a gel, and doing shots. The gel is similar to Androgel, but more concentrated, to raise T directly. The shots are HCG, which stimulate the testicles to create more T, and keep them working. What a lot of doctors fail to do is use HGC. Men with Secondary Hypogonadism (which is what I have) need to be on HCG also. Many men don't like the thought of giving themself a shot. However, if HGC isn't used, the testicles will atrophy (shrink up and stop working completely).



I used two different doctors before the third one was a charm. I kept telling the second doctor that something wasn't right, I always felt dizzy and light headed, and had no energy. It even started to affect my appetite.


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## Nitro (Jan 23, 2008)

MARNAV1 said:


> Any Internet sites/info/links?


 
I learned alot on "HealthBoards" in the Men's Health section. You can also get alot of sites from a Google search.


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## Nitro (Jan 23, 2008)

Nitroz said:


> I used two different doctors before the third one was a charm. I kept telling the second doctor that something wasn't right, I always felt dizzy and light headed, and had no energy. It even started to affect my appetite.


 
I know the feeling. I've been feeling dizzy/lightheaded for a year. I had all kinds of tests, Eyes, Ears, MRI's... all negative.


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## Nitro (Feb 8, 2008)

Change of plans. I'm going to attempt to restart my Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis (HPTA) by using Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) in order to avoid, or delay Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT). It's an eight week treatment plan. We'll see how it goes.


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## MarNav1 (Feb 8, 2008)

Why?


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## turkdc (Feb 8, 2008)

The Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular axis can be reset without using hardcore drugs! Many alternative health care providers can offer assistance in the form of nutrition and herbal supplements. PM me if you need a referral or any other information. 

As for using a testosterone supplement you will end up causing even more disruption in your system as the T receptors downgrade their response due to the massive influx of the hormone.

Best of luck


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## MarNav1 (Feb 8, 2008)

Can you explain HPT axis in a nutshell?


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## Nitro (Feb 8, 2008)

MARNAV1 said:


> Can you explain HPT axis in a nutshell?


 
The Hypothalamus is like a thermostat that regulates hormones, in this case Testosterone. When T becomes too low, it releases Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH), which inturn triggers the Pituitary to release Luetenizing Hormone (LH) and Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH). These hormones then trigger the Testicles to create Testosterone, and Sperm respectfully.

Sometimes this process can get out of whack, from doing Steriods (#1 reason), stress, drug/alcohol abuse and unknown causes. Another problem that can cause the system to go wacky is if there's a physical problem with the Pituitary. i.e. tumor or damage from head injury.

I've never used steriods, I don't use drugs, not much alcohol and I don't have a tumor (confirmed by MRI). Therefore my problem is either stress, or possible damage to my Pituitary (I have had multiple head injuries) or unknown causes. 

This restart attempt should tell us if my Pituitary is working. If it is, there's a good chance I can recover without the need for TRT. But if my Pituitary is unresponsive, I'll most likely have to go on TRT for life.


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## Nitro (Feb 8, 2008)

turkdc said:


> The Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular axis can be reset without using hardcore drugs! Many alternative health care providers can offer assistance in the form of nutrition and herbal supplements. PM me if you need a referral or any other information.


 
Do you know anyone personally that as successfully restarted their HPTA by using nutrition and herbal supplements alone? If so, what was the reason their HPTA shut down, and how long did it take them to restart it?



turkdc said:


> As for using a testosterone supplement you will end up causing even more disruption in your system as the T receptors downgrade their response due to the massive influx of the hormone.


True, but if the HPTA cannot be restarted, it's much more disruptive (make that dangerous) to live with Low T then to replace it.



turkdc said:


> Best of luck


Thanks


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## Icebreak (Feb 8, 2008)

Is the Androderm patch considered to be T replacement? More importantly will it definitely cause disruption in your system as the T receptors downgrade their response due to the massive influx of the hormone even if the system has not been determined to be disrupted and just slightly lowered T is detected...talking 600 as opposed to 800?


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## Nitro (Feb 8, 2008)

Icebreak said:


> Is the Androderm patch considered to be T replacement? More importantly will it definitely cause disruption in your system as the T receptors downgrade their response due to the massive influx of the hormone even if the system has not been determined to be disrupted and just slightly lowered T is detected...talking 600 as opposed to 800?


 
Yes it is, and yes it will. However, forget the numbers. The real question is, do you have symptoms of Low T? If you don't, you should not take anything, or you risk screwing up your HPTA. If you do, then you need to do something, whether that's resarting the HPTA, or T replacement.

I recommend trying to restart the HPTA first. But if that doesn't work replacement is the last resort, and only at the minimum dosage. Too much is just as bad as too little. Also, if you start taking T externally, your testicles will shut down. To avoid this you need to take HCG.


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## Icebreak (Feb 8, 2008)

Not really. I just noticed lower libido (I think due to a high stress job and 5 decades on the planet) but no ED. Doc was treating me for insomnia partially due to apnea and partially due to stress. He is still treating me for HBP. He did in fact give me some Viagra. I didn't exactly know why and noticed zero change in libido and since ED was not at all a problem I told him let's forget about it. He came back with the patch. He did insist that my HBP get straight first so after 4 visits in as many months where I registered 128 BP he gave the go ahead. I can feel my own physicality much better. It's weird. Like just stretching, standing, walking...everything feels better. My attitude is better. I'm not sprouting huge muscles but I know I've gained strength in the last year. I'm generally much happier and libido is like I'm 21 again.

Great. I didn't see anything about atrophy on RX list or Drugs dot com. Dammit. I'm going to print this out and have talk with my doc next week. This weekend I'll start researching on Men's Health. Double Dammit. I thought I'd found a safe, wonder drug. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.


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## Nitro (Feb 9, 2008)

Icebreak said:


> Not really. I just noticed lower libido (I think due to a high stress job and 5 decades on the planet) but no ED. Doc was treating me for insomnia partially due to apnea and partially due to stress. He is still treating me for HBP. He did in fact give me some Viagra. I didn't exactly know why and noticed zero change in libido and since ED was not at all a problem I told him let's forget about it. He came back with the patch. He did insist that my HBP get straight first so after 4 visits in as many months where I registered 128 BP he gave the go ahead. I can feel my own physicality much better. It's weird. Like just stretching, standing, walking...everything feels better. My attitude is better. I'm not sprouting huge muscles but I know I've gained strength in the last year. I'm generally much happier and libido is like I'm 21 again.


 
600 at 50 yrs old isn't too bad, but it sounds like you did have symptoms of Low T, and T replacement helped.



> Great. I didn't see anything about atrophy on RX list or Drugs dot com. Dammit. I'm going to print this out and have talk with my doc next week. This weekend I'll start researching on Men's Health. Double Dammit. I thought I'd found a safe, wonder drug. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.


 
Most doctors will not prescribe HCG with T replacement, because it hasn't been tested "Long Term". They will just slap on a patch or gel and call it a day. They won't mention the fact it will cause atrophy either. Continued use of T replacement without HCG will cause atrophy. It's just a question of when. Also, it's believed the testicles make more then just Testosterone (becides Sperm) that's essential for good health.

Check out AllThingsMale, and look under Publications for "TRT: A Recipe for Success" and "HCG Update". Print them and take them to your doctor.

Have your Testicles shrank at all since you started TRT?


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## Icebreak (Feb 9, 2008)

Well this is kinda personal stuff but you and I are buds and if this conversation helps someone else, I'm cool with it. No signs of atrophy at all. The jewels seem very "comfortable". Performance has increased, easily controlled, almost effortless. I'm remembering this forum is family friendly so I hope that description was in line with what might be spoken of in a SE class.

I just yanked the patch and won't re-apply until my GP and I have a sit down and talk about HGC and the concept of restarting HPT Axis. I will print the info from your link and bring that with me. He's a pretty smart guy and he's strong about CE. A couple of months ago I ran across a Pharmacist that went to college with him. This Pharmacist told me that Dr. C. didn't help the curve one bit. I'm beginning to think that my better stress management techniques may be the best solution.

I'll PM you tomorrow and give you my email address so if you have time we can discuss this a little further. Another weird thing is that I've always been slow to anger and that hasn't changed except that I seem to have more patience than ever before. That's the opposite of what I thought might happen. My GP tells me that is a correct reaction to the dosage he prescribed.

Back to you, I'm really interested to hear about your progress. It sounds like your symptoms have been hellish or at least disturbing to deal with. Certainly you must feel some relief knowing that you now have a handle on it. How many times I've heard from people to follow your instincts. If you know something is wrong it's best to pursue a solution even if that pursuit causes you to become the educator of your physicians. Good for you for sticking to your guns. I like my guys because they speak to me like we are partners in attaining solutions. So I'm thinking Dr. C. might benefit from our conversation next week. I'll let you know how that goes.

Thanks again for starting this important and useful topic.


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## adamlau (Feb 9, 2008)

Hard to believe a guy with lights that throw like yours can have LT :duh2:


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## Nitro (Feb 9, 2008)

Icebreak said:


> Well this is kinda personal stuff but you and I are buds and if this conversation helps someone else, I'm cool with it. No signs of atrophy at all. The jewels seem very "comfortable". Performance has increased, easily controlled, almost effortless. I'm remembering this forum is family friendly so I hope that description was in line with what might be spoken of in a SE class.


 
I'm pretty outspoken in person also. Most of my friends know I what I'm going through. I figure, if it helps one person, a little embarrassment is a small price to pay. Although, not much embarrasses me anymore. 

Keep in mind, it can take a long time (months or even years) for atrophy to happen. Since you have none, it sounds like you're in good shape.



> I just yanked the patch and won't re-apply until my GP and I have a sit down and talk about HGC and the concept of restarting HPT Axis. I will print the info from your link and bring that with me. He's a pretty smart guy and he's strong about CE. A couple of months ago I ran across a Pharmacist that went to college with him. This Pharmacist told me that Dr. C. didn't help the curve one bit. I'm beginning to think that my better stress management techniques may be the best solution.


 
I didn't mean to alarm you. The problem is you already started TRT, so if you stop now, you may "crash", and feel worse then you did when you started. With that in mind, you may want to rethink stopping until you talk with your doctor. If you go on HCG, it will jump start your boys, and it will be much easier to stop, IF that's what you decide to do.

I'd say with your level of 600, stress management, along with other lifestyle changes could probably help you quite a bit, where there would be no need for TRT at all. I want to stress though, I am not a doctor. These are just my opinions, based on my own research.



> I'll PM you tomorrow and give you my email address so if you have time we can discuss this a little further. Another weird thing is that I've always been slow to anger and that hasn't changed except that I seem to have more patience than ever before. That's the opposite of what I thought might happen. My GP tells me that is a correct reaction to the dosage he prescribed.


 
Actually, being too low, or too high can cause you to feel irritable. When you're balanced, you feel the best.



> Back to you, I'm really interested to hear about your progress. It sounds like your symptoms have been hellish or at least disturbing to deal with. Certainly you must feel some relief knowing that you now have a handle on it. How many times I've heard from people to follow your instincts. If you know something is wrong it's best to pursue a solution even if that pursuit causes you to become the educator of your physicians. Good for you for sticking to your guns. I like my guys because they speak to me like we are partners in attaining solutions. So I'm thinking Dr. C. might benefit from our conversation next week. I'll let you know how that goes.


 
Last year was a tough year for me in more ways then one. I had three surgeries (unrelated) along with having Low T. After going to multiple doctors about my Low T symptoms, I finally found one that's on top of things. The first doctor I went to a year ago, wanted to put my on Androgel, and leave it at that. I, however, wanted to find out WHY my T was low. That led me on this journey. I knew to be cautious of that first doctor, because I was the one to recommended we check my Testosterone level based on my symptoms.

I'll keep updating my progress. Second day, no change.



> Thanks again for starting this important and useful topic.


 
This effects a lot of men, and most don't even know it. For me it came on all of a sudden, so I knew something was wrong. I felt like I aged 20 years overnight, literally. For most men it happens slowly over time. They think it's just part of getting older, and nothing can be done. Well, something can be done, and they should know about. It's just a matter of getting the word out.


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## Nitro (Feb 9, 2008)

adamlau said:


> Hard to believe a guy with lights that throw like yours can have LT :duh2:


 
LOL. Ya think?

Imagine the lights I'll have once I'm back to normal. :devil:


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## Icebreak (Feb 9, 2008)

It takes two days for me to notice just a slight change without the patch but the change is perceptible. I don't feel rotten just a little less pep in my step. So maybe I'll go ahead and stay on schedule until I speak to Dr. C. He may want to do some testing and a controlled state might be what he wants for a benchmark.

Yes, I'll definitely consider what the Doc says, however I've found that information from patients that intelligently and aggressively pursue a fix can be terrifically helpful. Dr. C. has been surprised by my tenacity before. I refused a second and third BP medication. He didn't like my 137s but I brought them down to 128 by subtracting the three shots of whiskey every night and 4 to 5 steaks every week and replacing that with a glass of wine and baked fish in parchment paper. I now prefer baked fish, baked asparagus or snow peas, wine, a slice of excellent bread and bit of fresh fruit to a Porterhouse, a baked potato, cheese and broccoli and a couple of cowboy sized shots of whiskey. Dinner guests love Fish en Papillote.

Good luck on your strategy. The condition can't be at all fun. I'm rooting for you.


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## Nitro (Feb 9, 2008)

Icebreak said:


> It takes two days for me to notice just a slight change without the patch but the change is perceptible. I don't feel rotten just a little less pep in my step. So maybe I'll go ahead and stay on schedule until I speak to Dr. C. He may want to do some testing and a controlled state might be what he wants for a benchmark.


 
Good plan. 



> Yes, I'll definitely consider what the Doc says, however I've found that information from patients that intelligently and aggressively pursue a fix can be terrifically helpful. Dr. C. has been surprised by my tenacity before. I refused a second and third BP medication. He didn't like my 137s but I brought them down to 128 by subtracting the three shots of whiskey every night and 4 to 5 steaks every week and replacing that with a glass of wine and baked fish in parchment paper. I now prefer baked fish, baked asparagus or snow peas, wine, a slice of excellent bread and bit of fresh fruit to a Porterhouse, a baked potato, cheese and broccoli and a couple of cowboy sized shots of whiskey. Dinner guests love Fish en Papillote.


 
I love my steak, baked potato and broccoli. I don't think I'll ever give that up. Although, I'm not a whiskey man, I like a few beers every week. My BP is actually on the low side, 110's/60's. Maybe I should try some of that whiskey. 



> Good luck on your strategy. The condition can't be at all fun. I'm rooting for you.


 
Thanks. Ditto.


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## mckevin (Feb 11, 2008)

Wow, the things we will talk about on an internet forum, LOL

Been watching this closely, as I have been on TRT for about a year now. The gel was ineffective so we are now using the shot every other week, it's easy to do yourself. Still playing with the dosage/frequency trying to find the happy medium between lethargic/depressed and able to leap tall buildings.

Currently on my second urologist and have never heard of HCG. I have an appointment tomorrow and will plan to bring this up!


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## Icebreak (Feb 11, 2008)

mckevin said:


> Wow, the things we will talk about on an internet forum, LOL



I heard that!



mckevin said:


> The gel was ineffective so we are now using the shot every other week, it's easy to do yourself.



I didn't know you could do any type of shot yourself until Nitro told us about the HCG shots. Now your telling me you can do the T shots yourself. My Doc made a big deal about that like he would be the only one that could do it. And I better make sure I don't lose my vial because that would mean some uncomfortable reporting of loss of a highly controlled substance. I'll ask him about this too.



mckevin said:


> Still playing with the dosage/frequency trying to find the happy medium between lethargic/depressed and able to leap tall buildings.
> 
> Currently on my second urologist and have never heard of HCG. I have an appointment tomorrow and will plan to bring this up!


 Good luck. I hope you find that good range that keeps you humming along just right.


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## mckevin (Feb 11, 2008)

Icebreak said:


> I didn't know you could do any type of shot yourself until Nitro told us about the HCG shots. Now your telling me you can do the T shots yourself. My Doc made a big deal about that like he would be the only one that could do it.


 
It's no big deal at all. I did the first one in the Dr's office under supervision after about 1 1/2 minutes of instruction, and the rest have been done at home at my covenience. Just a quick jab in the thigh... The syringes and needles are by perscription, I pick them up at Walgreens. Since I'm not concerned about accidental needle sticks from the used ones I remove the needle from the syringe (with the cover on, of course) and throw everything else in the trash. The needles colect in an old (plastic) bottle until I get somewhere that has a sharps container to be disposed of properly.


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## Nitro (Feb 11, 2008)

mckevin said:


> Wow, the things we will talk about on an internet forum, LOL


 
This is pretty tame compared to what they talk about on the HealthBoards. 



> Been watching this closely, as I have been on TRT for about a year now. The gel was ineffective so we are now using the shot every other week, it's easy to do yourself. Still playing with the dosage/frequency trying to find the happy medium between lethargic/depressed and able to leap tall buildings.


 
I've talked with a lot of guys shooting, and some like it better then the Gel. Easier, not as messy etc. If I have to go on TRT, I may opt for shooting. However, I can get a Compound 5% -10% cream that sometime works when 1% gel (Androgel) does not. The Compound cream is a lot cheaper then Androgel, also if insurance doesn't pay.



> Currently on my second urologist and have never heard of HCG. I have an appointment tomorrow and will plan to bring this up!


 
Yeah, most doctors never mention it, or the fact that TRT without it will cause your testicles to stop working and shrink. Some guys don't have a problem with that (I DO), if they're older and don't plan on having more kids. However, it's believed the testicles make more then just Test and Sperm, that are required for good health. I tend to believe that, based on hearing guys say the feel much better when using HCG then without it.


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## Icebreak (Feb 11, 2008)

Good to know. Thanks.


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## Nitro (Feb 11, 2008)

Icebreak said:


> I didn't know you could do any type of shot yourself until Nitro told us about the HCG shots. Now your telling me you can do the T shots yourself. My Doc made a big deal about that like he would be the only one that could do it. And I better make sure I don't lose my vial because that would mean some uncomfortable reporting of loss of a highly controlled substance. I'll ask him about this too.


 
HCG uses a smaller insulin needed (31g) compared to T (22g), and is much easier to do (in the belly fat, as opposed to the muscle). However, T shots are prefered by a lot of guys, and is easy once you get the hang of it. Here's website with instructions.


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## mckevin (Feb 11, 2008)

Well, the whole injection issue became moot for me today. Red cell count tested through through the ceiling. Apparantly polycythemia is a not an uncommon side effect of the injectable. My urologist says our options are to go to the patch (after a suitable waiting period, assuming I don't stroke out in the interim), a gel (which We have already determined doesn't work well for me), or go back to feeling like crap...

If this wasn't a family forum I would be tempted to say ####


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## Nitro (Feb 11, 2008)

mckevin said:


> Well, the whole injection issue became moot for me today. Red cell count tested through through the ceiling. Apparantly polycythemia is a not an uncommon side effect of the injectable. My urologist says our options are to go to the patch (after a suitable waiting period, assuming I don't stroke out in the interim), a gel (which We have already determined doesn't work well for me), or go back to feeling like crap...
> 
> If this wasn't a family forum I would be tempted to say ####


 
Have you considered a Phlebotomy? You should donate blood as often as you can. I'm surprised your doctor didn't recommend it.


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## Icebreak (Feb 12, 2008)

Hate to hear that, mckevin.

I wonder if Nitro's strategy of restarting the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis (HPTA) by using Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) would be an option for you.

For the Androderm patch they come in 2.5 mg/day and 5 mg/day which is a delivery system spec of 44 sq cm containing 24.3 mg testosterone. If the 5mg doesn't raise T enough a dosage of one 5mg patch + one 2.5mg patch per 24 hr period might be prescribed.

I put mine on the upper arm to the side and up from the bicep. The area is a little pink after removal for a day or two. This can be treated with over the counter hydrocortisone cream. Alternatively, a small amount of 0.1% triamcinolone acetonide can be applied before the patch is applied to combat the irritation from from happening. I don't use either because my skin seemed to get used to and just shows a little pinkish oval shape.


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## mckevin (Feb 12, 2008)

Phlebotomy may well be an option, he is supposed to call me tomorrow.

I did mention both HPTA reset and HCG, he brushed both aside as bad medicine. I dunno, guess I will hang with it for a while yet, but there are many other Dr's out there...


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## Nitro (Feb 12, 2008)

mckevin said:


> Phlebotomy may well be an option, he is supposed to call me tomorrow.


 
It's your only (BEST) option. Ask your doctor if HE thinks you should get one. I'm curious to know what he says.



> I did mention both HPTA reset and HCG, he brushed both aside as bad medicine. I dunno, guess I will hang with it for a while yet, but there are many other Dr's out there...


 
Doesn't surprise me coming from a Urologist.

Incase you missed it earlier in the thread, check out AllThingsMale, and look under Publications for "TRT: A Recipe for Success" and "HCG Update". Print them and give them to your doctor. If he still says it's bad medicine, find a new doctor.


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## Icebreak (Feb 12, 2008)

Nitro said:


> It's your only (BEST) option. Ask your doctor if HE thinks you should get one. I'm curious to know what he says.
> 
> Doesn't surprise me coming from a Urologist.



Do you think a sharp GP would be better or is there another discipline that would be more aware of these options?


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## Nitro (Feb 12, 2008)

Icebreak said:


> Do you think a sharp GP would be better or is there another discipline that would be more aware of these options?


 
I would say you'd have better luck with an Endocrinologist. Though must of them are not up on male hormones. They usually only deal in diabetes, thyroid etc. The key is finding one that deals in Testosterone Replacement Therapy.

I went to multiple GP's, none of them thought to check my T, and wanted to put me on Antidepressants. I went to two Urologist, who were even more worthless. I went to one Endo, and asked him to check my T, based on my OWN research. Sure enough it was low. He just wanted to slap me with gel, but no HGC. I went to a second Endo, who offered to use Gel and HCG. However, at the time I read about restarting the HPTA. The Endo didn't know enough about it, so I found another doctor who deals only in Male Hormone Replacement.

From what I've read, a lot of other guy's TRT experiences with jumping doctors were the same. Finally they find one, but not after seeing at least a half a dozen first.


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## Nitro (Feb 13, 2008)

Mckevin, How did it go with your doctor? Hope it went ok. Keep us updated.


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## mckevin (Feb 15, 2008)

Finally got the call this morning... from the nurse...

I am to quit all injections and replace it with nothing for 3 months while my red count straightens itself out. Phlebotomy isn't necessary since it will eventually resolve itself on its own, never mind how I will be feeling for those (at least) 3 months...

That was his position. Mine is that I am looking for a doctor.


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## Nitroz (Feb 15, 2008)

mckevin said:


> Finally got the call this morning... from the nurse...
> 
> That was his position. Mine is that I am looking for a doctor.



Good luck finding a new doctor.

I just found out that the doctor that helped me with my issue is now closing his office and working for a business....arrrggghhh! So now I am in the same boat, again!


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## Nitro (Feb 15, 2008)

mckevin said:


> Phlebotomy isn't necessary since it will eventually resolve itself on its own


What kind of stupid logic is that?!?!



> Mine is that I am looking for a doctor.


 
Good plan! PM me if you want some info. In the meantime go donate a Pint of blood.


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## Nitro (Apr 8, 2008)

Well I finished the HPTA Restart protocol last week, with no change. I still feel like crap. My doctor gave me the option to try again with a more potent drug, but said he didn't have much confidence in it working. He said usually guys will feel something, whether it's better or worse. So I decided to just start TRT, which I did yesterday. We'll see how it goes.


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