# The Sarah Connor Chronicles: Fox TV series



## js (Jan 14, 2008)

I don't know if anyone else saw it, but I watched The Sarah Connor Chronicles part 1 of the pilot episode last night on Fox, and I was very impressed. They really did a great job casting the show, and the plot and characterization were very well done. Very enjoyable. I was happy from the opening monologue, actually, and wasn't let down even for a minute. Summer Glau, of Serenity and Firefly fame plays Cameron, the good terminator sent to help them, and Lena Headey plays Sarah Connor. I'd never seen her before, but I was duly impressed. She was a good choice for the role. The actor that plays John Connor, Thomas Dekker, I also liked.







I anticipated The Bionic Woman much more eagerly than this series, but was terribly let down by The Bionic Woman--so much so that I just stopped watching it. The Sarah Connor Chronicles, on the other hand, I had only mild hopes about, but I am currently very excited about this series.

For those who want to gauge my taste to see if it might match theirs, let me first say that I don't just sit and watch TV just to fill time--EVER. If it isn't good, I've got better things to do than be bombarded by commercials and audio-visual other unwanted stimulus. However, if it's a really GOOD show or movie, I treat it just as seriously and give it just as much attention as a novel or play or book.

Some of my favorite modern (more or less) TV shows are as follows, in no particular order:

Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Firefly
Veronica Mars (first two seasons only)
Battlestar Galactica
Alias (first two seasons only)
Gilmore Girls

As for the Terminator movies, I liked the first two quite a bit (more the first than the second), but didn't much like the third. Which is kind of nice, in the sense that the TV series is pretending that T3 just doesn't exist. hehe.

Did anyone else watch this? And if so, what were your impressions?

(I'd also be fine with talking about TV shows or movies in general or other related topics, if that's where things go.)


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## raggie33 (Jan 14, 2008)

well judgeing from the other shows ya like im sure i wont like it.but then again i didnt know it was a show i thought it was the new movie.but i watched con air instead


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## bhds (Jan 14, 2008)

I watched it and am recording it tonight. I'm still up in the air right now. Theres a lot of plot holes that need plugging.
:ironic:


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## Oddjob (Jan 14, 2008)

I liked last nights episode and I am hopeful this one will pan out. I usually give a show 6 to 8 episodes to see if it is worth following. I too was disappointed with the Bionic Woman and stopped watching it. I was hoping it would be more like Alias was. If you like the Terminator movies and SciFi in general this show is worth a look IMO.


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## PurpleDrazi (Jan 14, 2008)

I was fortunate to watch this episode last July at Comic-Con.

The "Come with me if you want to live" part was the highlight for me (being a Browncoat and not knowing what part Summer played)




Francis


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## cernobila (Jan 14, 2008)

We don’t have everything that you have but most of it.......in my case I boycott anything that has "Fox" in it, on it, or next to it.......don’t like the person that owns/runs it, that’s all.......actually I don’t watch very much commercial TV at all....but that’s only me.....


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## woodrow (Jan 14, 2008)

When I first saw the previews, I took a quick double take and said, "There is a new terminator...and its River!"

Being a huge Firefly/Serenity fan, I could not miss last nights show, and invited a buddy over who also liked Firefly.

I was pretty impressed. Yes there were some things that required a little stretch to seem plausible...but overall, I think they did a great job. 

I look forward to watching it tonight.


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## Woods (Jan 14, 2008)

My wife and I enjoyed it...made Bionic Woman look as bad as it is. Looking forward to tonight......


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## Woods (Jan 14, 2008)

cernobila said:


> We don’t have everything that you have but most of it.......in my case I boycott anything that has "Fox" in it, on it, or next to it.......don’t like the person that owns/runs it, that’s all.......actually I don’t watch very much commercial TV at all....but that’s only me.....


 
Doh! C'mon now! They report, we decide....and Bill's watching out for us!
:nana:


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## bobisculous (Jan 14, 2008)

I watched it. Thought it wasn't bad at all. Good thing too, cause they cut 24 till the strike is over and I am having Bauer Withdrawals...


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 14, 2008)

Well, I liked it, really liked it from the first minute to the last minute. They did really good presenting this show, considering the financial restraints compared to a movie's budget. The cast played deadly serious deadly seriously. There was even a great one liner by the evil robotic guy, "Class dismissed", as he climbs out the school window in persuit of John. I liked the non stop excitement of the show, and this show certainly fills the void left by "24" on Monday night.

Bill


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## kelmo (Jan 14, 2008)

I too enjoyed it. 

The gal who played Sarah Connor was also the wife of Leonidas in "300."

It was kind of weird seeing River Tam playing a Terminatrix. I was expecting her to say, "Come with me if you're not a reaver."

Did you notice her eyes flashed blue instead of red when she identified herself?


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## dano (Jan 14, 2008)

It wasn't too bad, though I think I'll give it a few more episodes before I have a definite yes/no.

What really p.o.'d me was the amount of commercials, at least one break every four minutes at one point...It was way too distracting.

-dan


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## kelmo (Jan 14, 2008)

The Skynet attack date was changed with the demise of Myles Dyson. Does this imply that Terminators are being sent back from different timelines to eliminate an infinite number of John Conners in an infinite number of possible futures?


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## NA8 (Jan 14, 2008)

+1 

Liked it.
Stopped watching bionic woman.
Hate all the commericals. 
The wife of Leonidas in "300" rocked. 
I'd like to have a pair of those new terminator models. 
Hope John doesn't whine all through the series.


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## Big_Ed (Jan 14, 2008)

I watched it last night, and I liked it. The only thing I'm unsure about is if I'll end up liking the choice of actress for Sarah Connor. To me she doesn't quite seem right. Not enough like Linda Hamilton in my opinion. But I won't let that stop me from enjoying the show. It seems pretty clever, and has good special effects.


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## js (Jan 14, 2008)

There are some people who get really into plot details and plausibility and realism and all that. One of my girlfriends in college had a dad who could not freaking stop himself from criticizing a show or movie as unrealistic every 3 or 4 minutes. I kid you not. There'd be a scene of three hanged dead people, and he'd be like "So, what's wrong with that? Don't know? I'll tell ya. There pants should be wet from the waist down, 'cause when you're hung your bladder lets go."

TMI. TMI.

My brother can read an absolutely AMAZING book like one of the Harry Potter books and get all hung up over one little thing that he feels is unrealistic or implausible in an action sequence, or in a strategy that the characters follow (or fail to follow). And I get so frustrated when I spend the better part of an hour talking with him about something like that, when there were so many more important things to talk and think about and enjoy appreciating.

For me--and it's just my own deal--the important things are character, motivation, emotion, change, and the relationships between the characters and how those change and grow. I like getting to know characters, characters that have some depth to them, some roundness. I feel with them; I live with them; they enrich my inner life. So, for me, I get bent out of shape when characterization and plot progression are not given the proper attention and care.

This is why I came to *hate* Smallville. It had so much potential there, but they kept resetting everything, going back to a status quo, returning to an earlier place so they could pull the same strings in the same way. Stand alone episodes, stand alone seasons. No rime or reason to it, except for a calculated guess at what will get the best ratings. I wasted my time on that show for two effing seasons--on DVD--and then swore it off in disgust.

You can't screw with the integrity of the characters and leave them with any depth, any reality.

But doing the opposite will cover over a multitude of sins! The first two seasons of Alias were just amazing because of the characters and how the changed and related to each other--Sidney and her dad; Sidney and her mom--wow! Powerful stuff.

Joss Whedon mentions in the Serenity commentary, when Mal and Innara escape from her orders headquarters, that various things were there to give some amount of plausibility for the viewers, to allow the continuation of the willing suspension of disbelief--like the multiple beacons which prevents the agent from being able to follow them. Joss knows it's not some carefully conceived explanation that will satisfy searing critical investigation. _And he doesn't care_.

There has always been this division in science fiction and fantasy. One group are the techies who are all into the technology and science of the technology and how cool that all is and how plausible it is and whether it hangs together or not and so on. Asimov and Star Trek are maybe examples of this.

Then there are the Phillip K. **** types who are a lot more interested how the different setting and world and atmosphere allowed for in Science Fiction or Fantasy enables the artist to better investigate and reveal something profound, something true, about humans and the world and so on. If the same story could be told just as well in a modern, realistic setting, it shouldn't have been made into a sci fi or fantasy story. Or so this group of people would argue.

I confess myself to be pretty much in that latter group.

So, I don't really bother myself with the question of why there aren't an infinite number of terminators coming back. I could think of an explanation--I have one in mind right now in fact--but that's not the issue. The issue is that for me, it's not really important. I'm willing to start with the world and the rules of that world, that are given to me, and go from there. If the writer(s) are worth their salt, they will unfold a consistent enough world that such things don't rear their ugly heads and bother me, which means I can focus on the world that's really important to me: the characters and the relations between them; the challenges they face; etc.

Of course, I do love the action sequences and the suspense and so on!

But, back to character, that's what Bionic Woman totally lacked--except for maybe Jamie's sister. I mean, when her first partner died, it was like the writers expected you to feel something for him, and for her loss. But we didn't! We never even KNEW him! How could he matter to us? The characterization and motives and all that were so butchered that I had to force myself to keep watching in the hopes that it might get better. They WASTED the talents of their two bionic women actresses. The show had no heartbeat, no sense of timing or meter. It was a disaster. Sad.


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## kelmo (Jan 14, 2008)

I hate "Wire Fu!" It worked in the "Matrix" and "Croaching Tiger Hidden Dragon" but it is way overused! I just can't stand seeing the hero gliding through the air while chopping off the heads of his enemies. 

I do like "Battlestar Galactica." The flawed heros are great. Battlestar Galactica Razor was way cool. The XO's fight with her inner demons is something I can really relate too.

I for one like picking apart the techy stuff. But I don't let it ruin the movie for me. "Live Free or Die Hard," for example. I was really intertained but the way John McClain escaped death was really over the top.


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## lctorana (Jan 14, 2008)

kelmo said:


> Does this imply that Terminators are being sent back from different timelines to eliminate an infinite number of John Conners in an infinite number of possible futures?


 
Yup, and that's why, like Doctor Who, continuity don't mean squat.

Clever, aint it?


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm a sci-fi fan, so I guess I'll give the show a look. I also boycott most anything that has to do with Fox so I had no idea this was being made.


I really haven't been interested in much network television for a few years except for Stargate network reruns. Don't have cable as the cable companies can all kiss my shiny metal hind end. I just want basic local stations and stuff like Discovery channel. When they let me choose my own channels and charge accordingly instead of making me find some idiotic package I might actually buy cable. I haven't checked in a couple years to see if they offer this yet, but I doubt it.
:sigh:

I've been meaning to watch Battlestar Galactica but I haven't ever gotten around to it. Maybe I should do that while I'm traveling over the next few weekends.


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## js (Jan 15, 2008)

kelmo said:


> I hate "Wire Fu!" It worked in the "Matrix" and "Croaching Tiger Hidden Dragon" but it is way overused! I just can't stand seeing the hero gliding through the air while chopping off the heads of his enemies.



I agree.



> I do like "Battlestar Galactica." The flawed heros are great. Battlestar Galactica Razor was way cool. The XO's fight with her inner demons is something I can really relate too.



Yeah. That was well done and it's really hard to that sort of thing well. My main problem with Razor was a TOTALLY out of character decision by Lee to assume that the mission went South and to blow up the whole thing, his friends included. Meanwhile his father was the one telling him to wait. Just didn't seem in character--that scene.

But that's my only complaint and others will probably disagree. I liked it a lot overall, though. BSG if frigging amazing that way. It maintains a very high level show after show after show. And it has a way of never settling down into a formula--you really don't know what's going to happen next. The show doesn't allow you to get comfortable, like Star Trek NG or Voyager.



> I for one like picking apart the techy stuff. But I don't let it ruin the movie for me. "Live Free or Die Hard," for example. I was really intertained but the way John McClain escaped death was really over the top.



Yeah, at some point, enough is enough, and it detracts. Hollywood doesn't seem to understand the concept. They figure that if THIS much of something is good, then TWICE as much will be that much better. They "amp it up". It's not enough that a character is hanging by his fingernails from a cliff in a story. No, when they make the movie, they have to add poisonous spiders and crumbling rock. It's stupid. It's why I dislike the Lord of the Rings movies in so many ways--that and they way Jackson consistently and destructively re-interprets Tolkien to be a Calvinist. It's really interesting to see all the changes against the book. The biggest one, of course, is Faramir. He is one of the few characters (Galadriel and Gandalf and Aragorn as well) who resists the ring. When he discovers that the hobbits have it, he does NOT capture them and drag them to Gondor. But in the movie, of course, he can't resist and does.

And I could go on. And on. But the other thing that I just was so disgusted at was when Jackson had Frodo kick Samwise out of the group, sending him packing, believing the lies of Gollum. I was ready to leave the theatre almost at that point.

It's amazing how consistently Jackson did this throughout.

Oh, one more thing--that stupid crap about Aragorn being a disappointment to Elrond, and him saying he had abandoned his way. WHAT THE HECK? Aragorn was out in the wastes because that was what his way called for! He wasn't afraid to become the King. He wasn't feeling "weak".

OK. Cutting myself off. Sorry.


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## NeonLights (Jan 15, 2008)

I'm a huge Serenity/Firefly fan and a casual Terminator fan (I have all three movies in my collection), and watched both of the episodes in the new series so far, and really liked it. I also went back and watched T1 and T2 in the last couple of days to refresh the mythology in my mind. I think the creators/writers of the new series need to be careful not to overdue the time travel and resetting the past issue, but the show has a lot of potential and I hope it does well, but I fear a repeat of the whole Firefly fiasco on Fox. Time well tell I guess......


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## flashy bazook (Jan 15, 2008)

I watched both episodes, and probably will need to watch a few more to make up my mind. So these are first impressions, subject to review.

I think that Linda Hamilton was just so amazing and well cast in the T-movies that I had trouble accepting Lena Headey in the role (so I had a similar reaction to Big_Ed on this one). Plus Lena is British, which is generally an issue in Sci-Fi roles (British Sci-Fi also normally sucks), and not gritty enough (too pretty and lithe, in a way) for the role. Plus she has to put a lot of effort into getting the accent right.

There were also just too many terminator chase scenes, which kind of got old by T-3.

Plus it was a big waste of time to set up all those "terminator disintegrates, terminator reassembles, terminator chases yet AGAIN" scenes. I mean if infinite terminators can come back from infinite different futures to keep chasing John Connor, what the hey does it matter if the same disintegrated terminator reintegrates and reattacks, when another one could just as well pop back into the timeline for another go.

I think a couple of themes had potential, like their loss of 7 years (so John does not know what a browser "history" is), although this particular theme is done better in the Journeyman, when bigger jumps through time are taken. (and where one of the female leads is in fact from even deeper in the past).

The other one I kind of liked was the theme where someone from the future can give equipment to the past, but can only do so by traveling and actually building it (and then putting it in several bank safety deposit boxes!). This has potential, such as how to build radioactive ion based disintegrator guns with materials easily available (though I am now reminded of Commander Checkov from STrek asking where he can find the nuclear reactors in SoCal in a thick Russian accent!). (although after being hit with the disintegrator gun, disintegrating, and captured by the time warp with his parts flying the terminator survives...quite unnecessarily).

Anyway, best not to get too caught up in this series, as Fox was supposed to have 13 episodes on inventory but because of the Hollywood writers' strike it only has 9, so there's going to be a huge empty time period after the 9th episode, even if the series catches on and is continued.

To be continued.


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## Oddjob (Jan 15, 2008)

NeonLights said:


> ...I think the creators/writers of the new series need to be careful not to overdue the time travel and resetting the past issue, but the show has a lot of potential and I hope it does well, but I fear a repeat of the whole Firefly fiasco on Fox. Time well tell I guess......


 
Inconceivable.


I like the show overall. Sometimes I like when characters and stories are expanded like in this show. There are other times when adding information is unnecessary and almost detrimental like in Star Wars Episode I. When I was a kid I liked the idea of Jedis using the force and being able to do amazing things but I really did not need to know the reason they can i.e. midichlorians.


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## Lee1959 (Jan 15, 2008)

I watched part of Monday nights episode. It was interesting. People tend to get too hung up in trying to explain the science or inconsitencies in it. Watch it for what it is, entertainment. It isn't reality, its not meant to be reality. If you cannot let yourself go and watch something and be entertained, don't watch, why wreck things for those who can by picking them apart and complaining. 

I will probably watch, or listen to it occasionally. I tend to have the tv on for something to listen to and watch a bit while sitting working on knives or a black powder rifle alone at night while my wife is at work. 

Beats being bored and gives the mind something to work on.


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## TedTheLed (Jan 15, 2008)

it was a little wierd when the terminator character was just a normal- seeming sexy warm friendly, even seductive, girl, then lost all of those qualities when her true identity was revealed and she became more of just a cold robot..but then I was thinking maybe they programmed her for, er, 'making out' this time'??!! wouldn't THAT be cool???!!! I was almost certain it was going to happen and then when she caressed the back of his neck, I was certain! -- but then in the next scene she says she was just checking his skin temperature...
I still say the kid and the robot make it. :shrug: one can always dream..


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## flashy bazook (Jan 15, 2008)

TedTheLed said:


> it was a little wierd when the terminator character was just a normal- seeming sexy warm friendly, even seductive, girl, then lost all of those qualities when her true identity was revealed and she became more of just a cold robot..but then I was thinking maybe they programmed her for, er, 'making out' this time'??!! wouldn't THAT be cool???!!! I was almost certain it was going to happen and then when she caressed the back of his neck, I was certain! -- but then in the next scene she says she was just checking his skin temperature...
> I still say the kid and the robot make it. :shrug: one can always dream..



Don't worry, this will happen, we have it from a Fox executive:

"Fox executives wanted to make sure "The Sarah Connor Chronicles" was more than a weekly chase show. Fox hopes that the dynamic between the mother and son, and the character of the young nubile Terminator, Cameron (a nod to Mr. Cameron), will add spice to the program. Peter Liguori, president, entertainment, Fox Broadcasting Co., says the female Terminator will be "the forbidden fruit" for the adolescent John."

Full article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/the_weekend_adviser.html


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## Sinjz (Jan 15, 2008)

I liked the first two episodes. Of course I've had a thing for Summer Glau since she was a ballerina on an Angel episode.  Yes, I was a big FireFly fan too. 

Only thing that bugged me so far is how did the terminator head make it through the time portal? I thought 'no tech'. Also seeing how the guys hid a pistol in his leg, why they couldn't do that with a futuristic weapon, seeing that Terminators make it through because of the flesh over there bodies.... Doesn't bother me enough to distract from my enjoyment. I wonder how it does rating wise, once Heros is back. :sweat:

BTW, could we erase cernobila's' post? I find it very annoying how people always have to inject that crap into every thread. It has ZERO to do with the show and I couldn't care less what his slanted views are.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 15, 2008)

SCC was a good Sci-Fi opener. My list of favorite TV Sci-Fi is long, so it has to really be bad not to make my watch list. Thank God for Tivo. Some favorites that come to mind:

Star Trek: NextGen, Voyager, DSN, Enterprise
Firefly
Battlestar (new)
Stargate SG1 & Atlantis
Babylon 5
Farscape
Lost
Heroes
Dark Angel (1st 2 seasons)


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## da.gee (Jan 16, 2008)

Is there a difference between the Fox News and entertainment channels? Their news is entertainement.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 16, 2008)

Now back to the SCC show.......


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## ValhallaPrime (Jan 16, 2008)

I watched it, was decent, but I really had to wince when during a firefight, Sarah hid behind a sofa while Mistar Terminatar was unloading what looked like a sig 229 into said sofa. sounded and looked like a 357 sig round, maybe a hot +p 9mm. 

Anyways, I wanna know where you can get a cloth sofa (80's style) that can stop -bullets-. Somewhere, if he watched it, Dale Dye is crying. 

Most of the .177 pellet guns i had as a kid could probably shoot through my sofas here. 

Just a beef. 

Other than that, it was pretty spiffy. Pretty high budget too. The scene with the teacher carving open his leg was primo.

Man that Terminator really shredded that bank vault, getting in there. That was wild.


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## PurpleDrazi (Jan 16, 2008)

ValhallaPrime said:


> but I really had to wince when during a firefight, Sarah hid behind a sofa while Mistar Terminatar was unloading what looked like a sig 229 into said sofa



You mean the first firefight after the Terminator shot up the school?

I believe they explained that with someone commenting that there was kevlar in the chair (couch?)

Francis


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## js (Jan 16, 2008)

TedTheLed said:


> it was a little wierd when the terminator character was just a normal- seeming sexy warm friendly, even seductive, girl, then lost all of those qualities when her true identity was revealed and she became more of just a cold robot..but then I was thinking maybe they programmed her for, er, 'making out' this time'??!! wouldn't THAT be cool???!!! I was almost certain it was going to happen and then when she caressed the back of his neck, I was certain! -- but then in the next scene she says she was just checking his skin temperature...
> I still say the kid and the robot make it. :shrug: one can always dream..



Very good point, I think. I wondered the same thing myself. Perhaps she stopped using her seduction/blending in/humanity software routines once there was no need to waste processor cycles on them?

But then, what about when she was questioned by the police officer or when they were interacting with others in the outside world. You'd expect her to be more human then, in that case.

For me, these are the sorts of things I *do* get a little nitpicky over. Because this is the heart of the story, or the show --for me anyway.


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## js (Jan 16, 2008)

I'm having a thought! If we assume that the discrepancy in Cameron's behavior isn't an oversight or mistake or something (which you always should assume, to start with), then it must mean something significant.

Could it mean (especially in light of other information) that in the future, Cameron and John were/are lovers. If this is true, then we should be able to notice that Cameron is always more "human" when she is around John. The "Diamonds are a Girls best friend" thing is maybe a piece of evidence in favor of that. As well as the touching him--which I don't think is covered by the skin temperature test thing. Heck, Cameron is able to see IR, so she didn't need to touch John to know his skin temperature. As witnessed by her shooting Enrique because he was maybe lying. She took that assessment from across the room, no touching involved.

Yeah. I think it's a pretty sure bet that Cameron and John ARE lovers in the future, and WILL become intimate on the show.

Lux,

I appreciate that you felt the need to take a stand on a political issue in response to cernoblia's post, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with your post. But, as one member to another (and this goes to cernoblia as well) I'd appreciate it if you both might see your way clear to editing your post(s) to remove the politcal content. This sort of thing will go South in a hurry, and will likely result in this thread being closed. Discussing Fox in regards to this show is fine. Discussing Fox in regards to politics is bound to stir up a hornets nest.

On the topic of Fox, I dearly hope that they do not prematurely can the SCC like they did Firefly! Fox seemed to go out of its way to doom FF back when it was being aired. They showed stuff out of order. They had little to no advertising ahead of time for the series. It's like there was an interal conflict going on between two sides. One side wanted FF and forced it through. But the other side decided to go out of its way to ensure the shows failure, no matter how well done it was.

Pure speculation on my part, of course! But looking back, that's a scenario that I wonder about. Firefly was some of the best TV ever aired. Amazing stuff.


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## Ras_Thavas (Jan 16, 2008)

So far I have liked the first two episodes, which is more than I can say for some other shows (The Bionic Woman.)

I am not completely sold on the actress playing Sarah, but I think they nailed it with the actor playing John.


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## NA8 (Jan 16, 2008)

js said:


> Very good point, I think. I wondered the same thing myself. Perhaps she stopped using her seduction/blending in/humanity software routines once there was no need to waste processor cycles on them?



I was thinking, "it's a toaster", it doesn't care when it shifts out of one subroutine back to the basic operating system. It's in full guard mode now. 

Then again, I think the bot is the best part of the show. I like the weird dynamic with Sara more than with John. The scene at the forger's where the chicana look out is applying some makeup to a submissive Cameron and the focus pulls to Sara's WTF? was quite the moment.


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## js (Jan 17, 2008)

I thought that this thread needed some pictures!!!

So, without further ado, here is the "come with me if you want to live" pic, right after Camron has smacked down the other terminator with a pickup truck.







And here she is flirting with John at the beginning of the first episode:






And here they all are in the bank vault:







And two more in no particular order with no sense of context provided:












And, the best (in my opinion) saved for last:


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## sunspot (Jan 17, 2008)

flashy bazook said:


> "Fox executives wanted to make sure "The Sarah Connor Chronicles" was more than a weekly chase show.


My wife and I were thinking that the first show was very much like "The Fugitive" but with a FBI guy and a terminator after John Kimball.
I have the second show on my recorder and based on the good reviews here, we will watch it.
Thanks guys.


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## Coop (Jan 18, 2008)

So, anyone noticed the flashlights in episode 2? Looks like Surefire M3 or M4...


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## js (Jan 18, 2008)

Yup. It was a SF M4.


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## dudemar (Jan 18, 2008)

No offense to js or anyone, I know many liked the show, but it just didn't bode well for me. I will respectfully disagree, and I saw the show - didn't like it.

Please keep in mind this is coming from a hardcore Terminator fan.

I _know_ this is an alternate universe, but come on. Not only are there plot deviations and inconsistencies, but some things just didn't make sense. For example, in episode 2 where the rouge terminator is looking for Sarah and John, the body was operating independent of the head. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the CPU is in the head. The "eye lights" in the head also lit up independent of any power source.:thumbsdow Also, the CalTrans worker picked up the skull as if it had the mass of a soda can. T-800's weigh +400 lbs., that thing had to weigh at least 25-50 lbs.

When I first saw Sarah and John Connor, I had to do a double take. For one, Sarah has blond hair, not dark hair. At the end of Terminator and throughout Terminator 2, they were dressed raggedy/rugged; Sarah never wore any make-up. In T2 John had the rebellious teen look, but definitely not the EMO looks and Dawson's Crack behavior. "ok mom, I'll stay home!":sick2: (I can already hear the Paula Cole song, doo doo, doo doo doo!) I guarantee you, if you dubbed the audio over an entire episode with "I Don't Want to Wait", you'd be hard pressed to tell whether you're watching 7th Heaven or Gilmore Girls (with more action and gore). I do, however, admit the facial similarity between Lena Headey and Linda Hamilton was close.

They just didn't come off looking like they're "on the run", but looked more like they were heading for the next JCPenny's catalog shoot. No pun intended, but their outfits just didn't fit the bill.

I know they took a stab at producing a female terminator, but this was... well... :sigh:. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the things that made Arnold's character the terminator, was the cold, monotonous tone in his speech (even as the good guy). Cameron's (homage to Jim?) tone was all over the place, and as a result ended up sounding like a typical "person" would. It was just way she spoke and acted overall.:mecry: She came off as an angsty, ticked off teenager- and oh, by the way, she's a terminator too.:laughing:

Yes, I know terminators have the ability to adapt to their surrounding, but this portrayal was definitely less than convincing. I don't think Summer Glau is a bad actor, quite the contrary; it probably has more to do with the direction of the producers and writers. Argh.

Yes, I think this could've been done right. Was it? No, not even close.:ironic: I had high hopes for this series, seeing how this franchise was started by Jim Cameron and crew. Yes, the show had a few plot twists and surprises; but the plot holes were mostly covered by the explosions, cliffhangers and special effects. We already have enough of these shows, and we could definitely use a fresh start. This just wasn't one of them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate this show entirely. It would be interesting to see a relationship with Cameron and John!:twothumbs If it is possible, what would Sarah's reaction be? She already has doubts about her. To stretch it out a bit, is it possible for Cameron to become pregnant and have kids? She does have living human tissue, after all (if they stick to the original storyline). If so that would be a cool plot twist.oo:

Dudemar


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## js (Jan 18, 2008)

Thanks for your post, Dudemar.

I too wondered about the body-only terminator acting on its own. And also about the guy just picking up the head as if it were a soda can! Really sketchy and ill-advised stuff. But as I've mentioned before, this sort of realism isn't my top priority. Still . . . I agree with you.

As for them being on the run but not looking the part--well, actually they WEREN'T on the run, if you remember. They had been in one place for quite some time (2 years, was it?).

As for Cameron's tone, I understand what you're saying, but I think they may explain this. There may be something to it. Or there may not.

But as for characterization (apart from physical looks of the people "matching") they seemed pretty good to me. It's got a heartbeat. It's telling a story. For now, that's more than enough for me. But, yes, if instead of clearing up inconsistencies and apparent contradicitions, they just keep them or even multiply them, it'll start to bother me, and eventually ruin it for me.

As for plot holes and inconsistencies being covered up by explosions or action scenes, I respectfully, but completely, disagree. Could you maybe give one or two examples of exactly where this happened?

Overall, I think this has been done right so far, and it _may_ keep it up and thus improve as the story unfolds. I wasn't invested in this at all, either. I was pleasantly surprised.

Just my take on things, though! And my criteria are definitely different than most peoples. For example, you seemed to maybe make a negative comment about Gilmore Girls, and that's one of my favorite shows! (Although, I do recognize that a comparison from one genre to another can be negative even if the thing compared to is good--perhaps the case here?)

And I took absolutely no offense to your post. On the contrary, it's fun to talk about this stuff! That's why I started this thread--not just for those who liked the show, but for anyone who had anything to say about it. So feel free to keep up the discussion.


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## V8TOYTRUCK (Jan 18, 2008)

''Come with me if you want to live'' ahahaha..I love that part

Just finished watching the first episode I downloaded from itunes


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 20, 2008)

js said:


> Lux,
> 
> I appreciate that you felt the need to take a stand on a political issue in response to cernoblia's post, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with your post. But, as one member to another (and this goes to cernoblia as well) I'd appreciate it if you both might see your way clear to editing your post(s) to remove the politcal content. This sort of thing will go South in a hurry, and will likely result in this thread being closed. Discussing Fox in regards to this show is fine. Discussing Fox in regards to politics is bound to stir up a hornets nest.



OK, sure will. 

I also hope they keep running SCC, but I saw the 2nd episode dipped a lot in ratings. I'm also looking forward to the 8 episodes of Jericho starting in a few weeks. I was one of those who sent peanuts & letters to CBS.


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## js (Jan 20, 2008)

Lux,

No worries on the politics stuff. No one reacted to it, so it's a non-issue.

Jericho--yeah, me too! I'm definitely looking forward to it, and I'm glad they're getting the chance to finish the story somewhat. I didn't know about it until after the first season--watched it on DVD--and at that point, they had already been picked up for a partial 2nd season.

Another show I thought I'd mention is Moonlight. I've been really impressed with this show in a number of ways, the most prominent of which is that it does NOT SKIMP on the plot points. Some shows drag out important events for freaking EVER, leaving them for season finales, and then (in the case of Smallville) taking them back and trying to get more mileage out them and all that. Not Moonlight, though. Within two or three episodes, the main female character knows Mick is a vampire. Then she finds out a couple episodes later that he is the one who rescued her when she was a child, then Mick's ex-wife shows up (who's supposed to be dead), and it turns out she's human again somehow, so there's a "cure" for vampirism. Mick is all over this, and it's the sort of thing that a normal group of writers would drag out for two or three seasons. But not Moonlight. Nope. A couple episodes later she gives the cure to Mick and now he's human!!! (at least temporarily). And his ex was taken off to another country by ancient and powerful vampires. Oh, and I forgot to mention, in between, the main female lead characters boyfriend is shot mupltiple times and is dying and Mick does everything short of turn him into a vampire to save him (which he refuses to do), and he dies. (I should mention the romantic tension between Mick and her).

I wish more shows would stop being so damn stingy with actual EVENTS happening, with CHANGE and growth and all that, and be more like Moonlight that way.


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## sunspot (Jan 20, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> I'm also looking forward to the 8 episodes of Jericho starting in a few weeks. I was one of those who sent peanuts & letters to CBS.


js, sorry about the OT.
LL, please tell me more. Do you have an air date?


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## js (Jan 20, 2008)

sunspot,

I believe it is 2-12-08, but Lux, feel free to correct me on that.


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## Sinjz (Jan 20, 2008)

js said:


> Lux,
> 
> No worries on the politics stuff. No one reacted to it, so it's a non-issue.
> 
> ...



No one reacted to Lux's comments because he didn't say anything inflammatory. He simply stated that ALL news outlets are biased. Still he removed his comments, while cernobila and da.gee leave there bait type comments up there. Why don't you, as a moderator, edit those comments out???

I liked Jericho when it just started; so many possibilities for the show and who Jake really was.... I think the writing took a nose dive after that.  They seem to be rushing through scenarios rather than explore what the world might actually be like after such events. I'll watch a little to see how they'll wrap up the story, but I'm not excited about the show anymore. 

Moonlight's okay, but why didn't Mick know how old his ex-wife was? I know the shows aren't the same, but I still liked Angel better.


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## js (Jan 20, 2008)

Sinjz,

I asked both of them as one member to another. It was an optional thing. It was also a statement to others that, please, don't start arguing over politics here.

I never spoke as a moderator. I never said Lux said anything inflammatory. Only that he said something off-topic in response to cernobila's off-topic post.

It would have been out of line and unnecessary for me to edit out either of their comments as a moderator.

I was only speaking as a CPF member. I believe I was *quite clear* about that.

Anyway, moving on . . .



> Moonlight's okay, but why didn't Mick know how old his ex-wife was? I know the shows aren't the same, but I still liked Angel better.



Totally agree! I too like Angel a lot better. I almost listed it above in my first post, along with Buffy and Firefly. But I decided not to, because I don't quite have the same passion for it as for the others I listed. I own the first four seasons of Angel on DVD, and have watched most episodes more than once, and some episodes are just amazingly good. But overall, I more of a Buffy fan than an Angel fan.

But much more of an Angel fan than a Moonlight fan, to be sure


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## Sinjz (Jan 20, 2008)

js, :wave:

I didn't say you spoke as a mod. I'm asking you to be a mod and erase cernobila's' post. That's a request I made in my very first post in this thread.  Now I would like to add da.gee's post to that list.  They are off topic and clearly baiting with their comments. Why would it be out of line for a mod to remove them? Isn't that part of a mod's duties?

I only made the comparison between Moonlight and Angel becasue they are based on vampires. Angel couldn't stay on the air even when it was at its peak. I'm not sure how long they'll keep Moonlight on the air. Maybe that's why they are moving through story plots as quickly as they are. :shrug:

I was Buffy fan too. Are there any Angel fans who aren't Buffy fans or vice-a-versa?  I just wish the last season or two of Buffy didn't suck as bad as they did. 

Anyway, back to SCC (it took me awhile to figure that one out  ) I can't wait for tomorrow.  Unlike Dudemar, I'm not really looking at it as a bridge between Terminator movies, but more of a different story based LOOSELY on the Terminator movies.

edit: BTW why do you have that weird MJ comment next to beautiful Kate?


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 20, 2008)

It always amazes me to see the variation in quality of various episodes and years of TV shows. 

The thing that hurt Jericho was they ran it against one of the top rated reality shows, and then had a long break before continuing the end of season one, with practically no promotion of it restarting....by then people forgot what had happened. Even still it had decent ratings, so for them to drop it after a cliffhanger finale...and replace it with "Kid Nation," made many of us nauseous.

Truth be told, I actually sent 3 batches of nuts, 3 letters, 5 phone calls, and a priority mail envelope filled with styrofoam peanuts. You have to admit it is damn rare for a show to be brought back once the decision is made to cancel. The grassroots support and outrage was unprecedented beause of the internet. Just look at this one page of related links that they stopped updating a long time ago. 

It is hysterical to look at the videos of 40 tons of nuts being delivered and filling up their mail rooms, and every week CBS ignored the fans, the number of nuts, emails, letters, phone calls kept increasing. The executives had to all change their email addresses, and cancel their fax and phone numbers.

However what was even more amazing was employees inside CBS then tipped off the grassroot supporters what the new phone & fax numbers, and new email addresses were. Within minutes they were all jammed up and message boxes totally filled again. LOL!

I don't think this type of thing ever happened spontaneously so powerfully, and broad based in the history of television. I know I personally had never done anything to save a cancelled show before.


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## js (Jan 22, 2008)

So, I definitely think they shouldn't have made Cameron so human in her first meeting with John. They have largely backed away from that now, as if she had never been that smooth. Perhaps they will explain it at some point, but I doubt it. Ah well.

On another note, I have to mention how much I've been impressed with Sarah Connor's monologues in this show, and how they've tied in with the plot and themes. Especially last nights episode.

The whole headless terminator thing was ALL WORTH IT when that scientist helped the terminator to grow new skin. Realistic? Hell no! Profound? Hell yes. It tied in with the creators of the A-bomb, and really also with the H-bomb. This scientist KNEW, towards the end, what he was dealing with, and yet he went through with it anyway, because he was so obsessed with seeing that he was indeed RIGHT about his theories. He wanted to see it (literally) take flesh and become real--the final proof for modern scientists. Techne is the greek word for making. Technology goes hand in hand with modern science.

One scientist who worked on the H-bomb said that they "just had to detonate one" to see if they were right about their understanding of things at the atomic level, and that "it was such a beautiful experiment."

Indeed. Scientists aren't all that concerned with WHY they are doing what they are doing. To them, it is an end in itself. They are like little kids playing with explosives, so excited about MAKING stuff and making stuff that WORKS that they are unaware or unmindful of the danger.

That scene really worked for me, where the scientist saw what he was dealing with, but went ahead anyway. It was so creepy and disturbing. Like the latest Frankenstien movie with Kenneth Bragnagh (sp?).

Anyway, this is how I think sci fi and fantasy can get at things that "realistic" shows like CSI can not. (and vice versa, too. Both genres are needed).


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## NA8 (Jan 22, 2008)

js said:


> Indeed. Scientists aren't all that concerned with WHY they are doing what they are doing. To them, it is an end in itself. They are like little kids playing with explosives, so excited about MAKING stuff and making stuff that WORKS that they are unaware or unmindful of the danger.



Nukes don't bother me much, but the biowarfare stuff is vaguely annoying. It wouldn't take much...


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## cy (Jan 22, 2008)

I like it!!


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## ptirmal (Jan 22, 2008)

I watched the episodes that aired and I was pretty disappointed with them... I kind of expected it though...

Everything that was mentioned definitely detracted from enjoying the show... 

It especially seems that they can't really make it last long, I mean the season premiere already had them jump into the future to stop cyberdyne... I can't recall but didn't they jump into the future relatively close to when cyberdyne systems go live?


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## ptirmal (Jan 22, 2008)

double post


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## ptirmal (Jan 22, 2008)

triple post


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## js (Jan 23, 2008)

ptirmal said:


> I watched the episodes that aired and I was pretty disappointed with them... I kind of expected it though...
> 
> Everything that was mentioned definitely detracted from enjoying the show...
> 
> It especially seems that they can't really make it last long, I mean the season premiere already had them jump into the future to stop cyberdyne... I can't recall but didn't they jump into the future relatively close to when cyberdyne systems go live?



They've already changed the time-line--which was the point--so there's no telling exactly when (if ever) skynet will become active and self-aware. There's absolutely nothing theoretical stopping them from continuing the series for as long as there is interest and funding for it.

I would say that it's going to need to get better in order to have a future, but, really, lately it seems that that has almost NO bearing on (or even a negative bearning on) a shows future. Truly dreadful shows like Smallville seem to live forever, and amazing shows like Firefly are canceled prematurely. Ah well, we take what we can get, I suppose.


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## COMMANDR (Jan 23, 2008)

I liked it alot. I hope it does not go away like "Surface" which I also liked. 

Gary


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## flashy bazook (Jan 23, 2008)

I liked the 3rd episode the most, actually. Of course, I am very biased because I like and play chess and follow developments also in computer chess. So the references to the Kramnik-Fritz match (and the actual poster from that) and the Kasparov-Deep Blue match were grist to my mill!

Although I wouldn't necessarily agree with all the judgments about these matches (that Fritz would obliterate Deep Blue the "same way" Kramnik "obliterated" Kasparov--these are very controversial statements, although they have been voiced at least partially among the chess community).

I also liked the references to the German physicists and the moral dilemma of possibly murdering Heisenberg. In fact there was an interesting play (theater play) on this theme staged not long ago (I watched it). It also referred to some history suggesting that Heisenberg meddled with the formulas to make sure the German N-bomb effort would fail. So in the end morality won, and no assassination was required. (and in our very own timeline!). And the scientists do think through what they are getting into (e.g., Oppenheimer as well).

The episode also allowed the SC portraying actress to showcase more of her acting ability as she pondered over the moral dilemmas while cutting herself in the bathtub, a kind of foreshadowing of the Terminator growing flesh inside its own, much bloodier (20 units of blood, to be exact) bathtub.

On the minus side, I think they need to do something about John Connor, who is becoming a kind of screeching annoying git, always wanting to do the wrong thing and get himself into trouble. That was in fact one big problem with several Dr. Who episodes, where often the companion's main job seemed to be to get in various kinds of trouble from which the Doctor would then need to save her (usually the companion was female, of course).

The only difference is that now the females (mom and, if we can describe a machine as female, the helpful terminator) are now saving the male from trouble.

Another slightly annoying theme being developed was the various police investigations. Very time wasting, and personally I very much hope we don't go in the direction of yet another police drama (or getting a lot of elements from that type of show). There is little logic anyway, as in the Terminator universe whole police presincts can be annihilated by a single Terminator in the blink of an electronic eye, so what's the point of building these characters up when the only reason they are kept alive is to eat several hours over a shortened episode season (remember, only 9 of them this season).

Still, watched episode 3 twice already, and haven't yet deleted it!


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 24, 2008)

I loved the 3rd episode. I think there are true Sci-Fi fans like me who have a wide tolerance for time shifting, alternate realities, alternate dimensions, etc. When I read people's issues with this and other Sci-Fi shows I love, I'm like....what show are they talking about--this is great! LOL!


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## flashy bazook (Jan 24, 2008)

I liked the 3rd episode the most, actually. Of course, I am very biased because I like and play chess and follow developments also in computer chess. So the references to the Kramnik-Fritz match (and the actual poster from that) and the Kasparov-Deep Blue match were grist to my mill!​ 
Although I wouldn't necessarily agree with all the judgments about these matches (that Fritz would obliterate Deep Blue the "same way" Kramnik "obliterated" Kasparov--these are very controversial statements, although they have been voiced at least partially among the chess community).​ 
I also liked the references to the German physicists and the moral dilemma of possibly murdering Heisenberg. In fact there was an interesting play (theater play) on this theme staged not long ago (I watched it). It also referred to some history suggesting that Heisenberg meddled with the formulas to make sure the German N-bomb effort would fail. So in the end morality won, and no assassination was required. (and in our very own timeline!). And the scientists do think through what they are getting into (e.g., Oppenheimer as well).​ 
The episode also allowed the SC portraying actress to showcase more of her acting ability as she pondered over the moral dilemmas while cutting herself in the bathtub, a kind of foreshadowing of the Terminator growing flesh inside its own, much bloodier (20 units of blood, to be exact) bathtub.​ 
On the minus side, I think they need to do something about John Connor, who is becoming a kind of screeching annoying git, always wanting to do the wrong thing and get himself into trouble. That was in fact one big problem with several Dr. Who episodes, where often the companion's main job seemed to be to get in various kinds of trouble from which the Doctor would then need to save her (usually the companion was female, of course).​ 
The only difference is that now the females (mom and, if we can describe a machine as female, the helpful terminator) are now saving the male from trouble.​ 
Another slightly annoying theme being developed was the various police investigations. Very time wasting, and personally I very much hope we don't go in the direction of yet another police drama (or getting a lot of elements from that type of show). There is little logic anyway, as in the Terminator universe whole police presincts can be annihilated by a single Terminator in the blink of an electronic eye, so what's the point of building these characters up when the only reason they are kept alive is to eat several hours over a shortened episode season (remember, only 9 of them this season).​ 
Still, watched episode 3 twice already, and haven't yet deleted it!​ 
**********
Note - posted this last night and my ID was listed as having made the post but the post itself didn't show up. Lucky I got the text backup! Let's try to post it again.

******
OK, now that I've just posted this it shows as a double post. Sometimes you can't win. Apologies for the double post.​


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## DaFABRICATA (Jan 24, 2008)

flashy bazook,

Which post of yours was from the future????

Thats the furthest apart timestamped double-post I ever seen!!


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## js (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks for the posts, guys!

Lux, I know just what you mean. It's really a matter of priorities and preferences. Neither group (or person) is right or wrong, it's just that one group is wanting one type of show, and the other group is wanting another. In this case, both groups mights still claim they were sci-fi enthusiasts, but as I said earlier, there really are two recognizable sci-fi camps. One group places emphasis on versimilitude and plausible future reality. And there's something to be said for paying attention to these elements and crafting them, no matter which group you're in. But the other group has a lot more tolerance for things which don't fly with the first group--not because we don't see what they are talking about, but because our priorities are different.

John Connor. Yes. Indeed. Earlier (first 2 episodes) I was worried about him turing into a continual whiny snot. But, I actually think that in this episode he somewhat came into his own. At least a bit. I liked his objection about isn't he supposed to be a hero? And if he was just going to hide in a hole and let people die that they might as well just give the world to the machines right now. I liked that. Not whiny. Good point.

Plus, I don't think he got himself into trouble this episode, right? :thinking:


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## UncleFester (Jan 26, 2008)

JS
I saw the SCC link while sniffing around the 24 Site and didn't think a thing of it. Thanks for bringing my atttention to this show. I just finished watching all 3 episodes online. I think Fox has a winner here. It's good enough that it could stand alone if you had never seen a Terminator move. Let's hope they can keep it up.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 26, 2008)

If the writers don't all come back with some of the best material we have ever seen after their prolonged siesta, they should all be fired.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 2, 2008)

Spotted this article on TV.com about Summer. What a great actress.


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## ptirmal (Feb 3, 2008)

There should be more viewers now that the show was advertised adequately during the superbowl... hopefully this means better episodes


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## js (Feb 5, 2008)

Cool link, Lux! Thanks!

As for last nights episode, it was another winner in my opinion! I have been consistently impressed with the monologues. Last nights wasn't my favorite, but it was solid. Good stuff. Very much enjoyed the episode.


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## fnmag (Feb 5, 2008)

Quite happy with last nights episode. I was worried that episode 3 might "fall on it's face" but I think it was very good.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 6, 2008)

There's so little TV left that interests me....I'm savoring SCC & Stargate Atlantis episodes on TiVo until that perfect moment to watch latest episodes. It's like I have to ration it.

Luckily, I pulled out my copies of Northern Exposure DVD's to hold me over.


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## fnmag (Feb 11, 2008)

This series continues to satisfy. Good action, I'm "hooked". :thumbsup:


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 12, 2008)

Good episode last nite. 

Bill


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## Tachikoma (Feb 12, 2008)

Just watched the fifth episode, I liked the part where Cameron pulls out the chip from Chromartie's endoskull as seen in the extended edition of Terminator 2 :thumbsup:


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 12, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> Just watched the fifth episode, I liked the part where Cameron pulls out the chip from Chromartie's skull as seen in the extended edition of Terminator 2 :thumbsup:



Also when our friendly FBI agent finds his body with the exposed rods and cables. He is now probably putting some recent events together in a different light.

Bill


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## Tachikoma (Feb 12, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Also when our friendly FBI agent finds his body with the exposed rods and cables. He is now probably putting some recent events together in a different light.
> 
> Bill


Yeah, I can't wait to see what will he do once he'll discover the truth


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## Joe Talmadge (Feb 12, 2008)

This is one of those shows I really want to like. For me, so far it's not quite there. It's not just that the action parts aren't exciting enough. When I think about, say, _Lost_, I cared about the characters, what they were feeling, and the situations they found themselves in right away. I'm not drawn in yet. At the risk of revealing myself to be a total cretin, right now I'm continuing to watch the show because I dig the female robot. The bad news is, I'm digging her less and less each show, which means she's less of a draw for me. The writing either needs to tighten up, or they need to exploit their attractive female starlet for a few weeks until that happens. I'm good with an explanation of a "flirt" mode that she turns on when the mission requires it. If the robot discovers flirt mode, I'll give the writers at least another 6 episodes to get their act together


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## jzmtl (Feb 12, 2008)

I just watched all the episode so far, It's got pretty good start. I just hope it stay this way instead of going way of lost.


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## flashy bazook (Feb 12, 2008)

Well, good episode #5, though I kind of liked the Andy character and was sad to see him go so quickly. I guess his time was coming when the cuter brother of father of John came into the picture! So no more love interest between Sarah and Andy, but future flirting possibilities (plus ex-husband entering back into the picture...).

The chess stuff was fun to see again, one thing I can tell you was unrealistic was the quiet during the computer chess tournament! This sounds strange, I know, but it is chess tournaments between HUMANS that have to be quiet! The computers can't hear, and the audience and even the operators will happily discuss the ongoing games since they can't disturb or help the "players".

Also, probably there wouldn't really be that many grandmasters watching computers play in person, most likely the highest ranked players would be IM's who are involved with the computer preparation teams.

Finally, it was fun to hear a reference to the Donald Byrne - Robert Fischer game from 1956, probably though the show was filmed before Bobby Fischer died (which happened very recently, when Bobby was just 64 years old). It is correct that the game featured a brilliant Queen sacrifice, too. Some at the time called it the "game of the century", which Bobby played when he was only 13 years old!

Here is the game, by the way, for anyone that likes to follow chess games every now and then - if you've never played over this one, you are in for a treat.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1008361

Also correct was the fact that "adaptive" programs in chess have generally been much weaker than "brute force" programs. Hence Andy's program SHOULD have been weaker at least as seen from the viewpoint of 2007. I suppose eventually, as machines take over, adaptive programming is supposed to become much superior to non-adaptive programming.

One final gripe, the show continues to have way too much "police show" type material, now even the terminator tracking Sarah having come with her from the past is masquerading as an FBI agent, as if spending several long tracks per show following the main LA police investigator, plus whatever that other agency is, plus assorted police is not already enough. Enough! We have plenty of cop shows on already!


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## Paladin (Feb 14, 2008)

The wife and I were laughing out loud when John said "I call shotgun" before entering their vehicle, and the "tin-miss" dead panned "I call 9mm". 

Then my wife said, "I call 45"..._I was so proud_! I think her watching all the "Jerico" back episodes while quilting in her sewing room is starting to pay off. Next thing you know she'll want her own handgun and rifle.:thumbsup:

Paladin


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## UncleFester (Feb 15, 2008)

I think Episode 4 and 5 were better than the earlier one.. JMHO.

Paladin. I busted out laughing when Cameron (tin miss) called 9mm. Too funny.


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## fnmag (Feb 19, 2008)

Another good episode tonight. Finally a tiny bit of info on tin miss.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 19, 2008)

fnmag said:


> Another good episode tonight. Finally a tiny bit of info on tin miss.



Yeah, sort of unsettling when she said, "They go wrong sometimes. Nobody know why". Wonder if she will go "wrong" someday?

Bill


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## Trashman (Feb 19, 2008)

js said:


> Buffy the Vampire Slayer
> Firefly
> Veronica Mars (first two seasons only)
> Battlestar Galactica
> ...



Buffy was the best. If you going to mention Buffy, though, you've got to include Angel, which was just as good. I've seen ever episode of both series. Possibly, the best shows ever. I've not seen Firefly yet, but I bought the series. Veronica Mars was good to the end, for me. Battlestar Galactica....darn it, I totally wish I'd started watching that one, especially since Howard Stern and his co-host, Robin, always give it rave reviews. That type of show is right "up my alley." Alias is another I've never gotten a chance to see, but one day, I'll get around to it. Gilmore Girls -- that's good? Who knew...?

My current line up include Heroes (truley fantastic), Kyle XY (love it!), Eli Stone (it's off to a good start!), Numb34s, Moonlight (both in repeats), House M.D., Nip/Tuck (always juicy!), Smallville, and now Night Rider (great first episode!). There are others, too--CSI(s), various cable shows...

To stay on topic (is it too late?), finally, The Sarah Connor Chronicles is also a great one. I've seen every episode, so far, and love them all. In fact, as soon as tonight's episodes finishes downloading (poorman's DVR, heh...), I'll be watching. I've not really been disappointed by any aspect of it, but then, I'm easily amused, especially when it comes to sci-fi stuff. I hope this one lasts a while.


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## PurpleDrazi (Feb 19, 2008)

Trashman said:


> . . . and now Night Rider (great first episode!)




not to get off topic, but . . . I thought Knight Rider was (at this point) just a back-door pilot . . .

[shrug]

Francis


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## js (Feb 19, 2008)

Trashman,

Angel is high on my list, to be sure, but not as high as Buffy. And I only wanted to give people an idea of the sorts of shows I like so that they could better judge my recommendation of the SCC. Angel had some fantastic episodes--every bit as good as Buffy--but on the whole, the quality was more variable (in my opinion), and the mood was a lot darker. And I really disliked the direction they took things in the last two seasons. And I really hated Angel's son. Whiny frigging stupid brat. I was so hoping that they'd take off with the Cordelia being demon-ized thing, but since the actor got pregnant they had to re-write around that.

Anyway . . . yeah, Angel's really good stuff, but for me, not as good as Buffy.

As for Gilmore Girls, YES, it's really, really good--but it's not sci-fi, of course, and if you hate the genre that it is, then you'll hate Gilmore Girls of course, but I think it's an amazing show.

As for SCC, I've been very happy so far, although a bit confused about exactly what some of last night episode meant, long term--which was intentional, I don't doubt.


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## flashy bazook (Feb 19, 2008)

js said:


> As for SCC, I've been very happy so far, although a bit confused about exactly what some of last night episode meant, long term--which was intentional, I don't doubt.


 
Yeah, agreed! A lot of foreshadowing that the female terminator (a) might go bad; or (b), at the very least, may have different objectives at some point than Sarah and (today's, or 2007) John. That's why she secretly preserved and hid (while lying about it) the CPU from the terminator she terminated.

Personally I'll take a wild guess that (a) is thrown in as a red herring and that (b) is more probable.

Also, uncertainty introduced as to Sarah's future flirts (ex-fiance, or new hot interest, tough warrior and uncle to John?).

I liked the part of showing what happened to Andy (linking future information about him, where he realizes how wrong he'd been, while also providing useful hints about Skynet) to what happened to him, and from whom, in the present.

Also, I really liked the reduced time given to the cop/detective aspects of the show, so the whole thing was much better focused on science fiction plus character development! Of course, the main investigator now has plenty more evidence than he did before, and one would think that the evidence is beginning to add up in favor of Sarah's "crazy" story. I wonder what will be done to further the story line in this direction?

All in all, the SCC's show is definitely developing well and has joined my other big current favorites (in order, House, Numb3rs, and Lost, with Heroes a distant fourth).


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## Tachikoma (Feb 19, 2008)

I really liked the fact that Cameron saves Chromartie's chip, now I'm dying to know when this will come up in the main story 
About the part where the machines extracted blood from the rebels, what was up with the weird music playing in the basement?


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## js (Feb 19, 2008)

Was it Cromarite's chip? I thought it was one of the random terminators sent back to gather Coltan and stimie random resistance fighters, and so on. Was it really Cromartie? Seems like too easy a kill for it to have been him.


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## Tachikoma (Feb 19, 2008)

js said:


> Was it Cromarite's chip?


Yes, definitely 
OT:is that Selene from Underworld in your avatar?


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 19, 2008)

js said:


> Was it Cromarite's chip? I thought it was one of the random terminators sent back to gather Coltan and stimie random resistance fighters, and so on. Was it really Cromartie? Seems like too easy a kill for it to have been him.



Cameron is playing games. Notice that evil look in her eyes when she pocketed the "chip", after swearing obedience to Sarah, who incidentally has no .real control over Cameron. 

Bill


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## js (Feb 19, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> Yes, definitely
> OT:is that Selene from Underworld in your avatar?



Yup. That's her! And since you noticed, I suppose a picture from Underworld Evolution wouldn't be out of order:


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## Tachikoma (Feb 19, 2008)

js said:


> Yup. That's her! And since you noticed, I suppose a picture from Underworld Evolution wouldn't be out of order:


eheheh a friend of mine will cosplay her next month :thumbsup:


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## jzmtl (Feb 19, 2008)

At the end what's with derrick shooting andy good? I thought he said he didn't. Now he's lying?


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## flashy bazook (Feb 19, 2008)

The "good" guys (resistance fighters from the future, friendly re-programmed terminators) are lying! Webs of deceit coming back from the future into the present. Or maybe from the show's writers.

I too thought the CPU was not from the main hunter terminator but from a lesser machine.

Of course, terminators can pose as specific humans, and the terminators of the future had control over uncle of John and so could have copied his face and even mannerisms.

Although, it wouldn't make sense for THEM to have killed Andy.

In any case, killing Andy and lying about it isn't such a big deal. Given the information from Andy himself in the future, he should have been killed in the present (according to the show's logic, of course), and any resistance fighter who got to kill him would probably also be trained on sharing information only on a "need to know" basis and would see little need to immediately accept responsibility for his death.


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## js (Feb 20, 2008)

What's "cosplay her" mean?

As for Cromartie, I'm now convinced that that was *NOT* him that Cameron took out, and it is NOT his chip that she has. Cromartie is still out there.

I also wondered about it when they showed John's Uncle shooting Andy. I think I'm going to have to watch that episode again.


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## Tachikoma (Feb 20, 2008)

js said:


> What's "cosplay her" mean?


I mean she's gonna dress as Selene at a comic convention 



> As for Cromartie, I'm now convinced that that was *NOT* him that Cameron took out, and it is NOT his chip that she has. Cromartie is still out there.


What makes you think that? 
Maybe I should rewatch the entire series, until now I was totally convinced it was him... :shrug:


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## jzmtl (Feb 20, 2008)

It's not cromartie. It's the one that's killing all those freedom fighters where they got all the money/newspaper clipping in the safe from. Notice he doesn't target john at all, just derrick.


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## Tachikoma (Feb 20, 2008)

Damn, so my memory is really messed up, I'm getting older by the day


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## fnmag (Feb 25, 2008)

Excellent episode tonight. The tin miss is sure to please with her grace and moves. 
I'm really "into" this series now and they're ending it! Dagnabit! 
2 hour finale next week. :thumbsup:


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 26, 2008)

fnmag said:


> Excellent episode tonight. The tin miss is sure to please with her grace and moves.
> I'm realling "into" this series now and they're ending it! Dagnabit!
> 2 hour finale next week. :thumbsup:



Where did you get that info?

Bill


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## PurpleDrazi (Feb 26, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Where did you get that info?
> 
> Bill



From the preview of next week's episode?

Nice to see Summer dancing again . . .

Francis


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## fnmag (Feb 26, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Where did you get that info?
> 
> Bill


 

From last nights episode. 2 hour season finale to air next Monday.


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## ackbar (Feb 26, 2008)

this sucks. I thought they had 12 episodes.


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## ackbar (Feb 26, 2008)

Oh wait! is it season or SERIES finale? Cause the second option would suck!


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## LED_Thrift (Feb 26, 2008)

IIRC they said "season finale".


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## Tachikoma (Feb 26, 2008)

Do you think the music Cameron is dancing to in the end it's the same playing in the basement in the future?


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 26, 2008)

I went to Fox's website and they just show a regular show for next Monday. No mention on Fox that it is the series finale. I admit that I did not see the next weeks preview at the end of last nite show. I knew that there would be a problem with running out of shows due to the writer's strike. Jerico has the same problem, though I am sure the writers are humping now.

Bill

Well I just did not want to believe what fnmag said. Two hour season end show, or series end next Monday. 

Bill


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## fnmag (Feb 26, 2008)

It is the season finale, if I understand correctly. Most likely due to the writers strike. So, a hiatus until Sept?. I'm not sure. 
I do hope they continue this series. 

I think Cameron got some good "air" time last night. I look forward to her assuming a much larger role. Fine by me if they "scale back" the time alloted to SC.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 26, 2008)

The best news on any Sci-Fi show is always at syFy Portal. No mention of cancellation, but down ratings for a new series is pretty deadly. Looks bad for my beloved Jericho however. Nuts!


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## ackbar (Feb 26, 2008)

Oh good.. I was kinda freaking out.. I like the show and hope it doesn't turn out to be another Firefly.


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## jzmtl (Feb 27, 2008)

I hope it's not, it's only 7 episodes so far, I hate an unfinished story.


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## js (Feb 28, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> Do you think the music Cameron is dancing to in the end it's the same playing in the basement in the future?



Cameron is dancing to Chopin Nocturn in C-sharp minor at the end--I love that piece and play it well enough not to massacre it.

I'm sure I would have recognized it in the previous episode, so I feel confident in saying that, no, it's not the same music as in the basement.

Good episode this past Monday. I only just watched it--had to download it and watch on my computer because I was travelling home for like 20 hours on Monday, starting at 4 AM, and not getting home until 12:15AM Tuesday. Took 15 minutes to get my stuff together, then rushed off to work the graveyard shift at the accelerator 'til 8 AM. I was, uh, pretty tired by that point, to say the least. I flew from Orlando to Atlanta to Detroit (where my flight to Ithaca was canceled) to Boston to Rochester NY. Fun. Really fun. LOL!

Anyway, yeah, lovely to see Summer dancing. Another solid episode, in my opinion.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 28, 2008)

Yeah, I agree this is a solid series overall....and hope they renew it.

Hey JS, lookee at the last Jericho episode ratings....lol...I can imagine the dilemma this puts the CBS exec's back into. Nuts-II

They also just posted a blurb about the future of SCC there.


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## flashy bazook (Mar 1, 2008)

fnmag,

No surprise on the season finale already coming up, if you had read the thread from the start, you would have seen that I posted they only had 9 episodes on tap.

Like js, I also liked the episode, at least they are integrating the FBI investigator on a human level rather than wasting time on endless police investigation and cop show type material.

I thought there was also an interesting theme of people becoming more like machines (John's uncle, wanting to kill without mercy while giving no-one his trust) while the machines are becoming more like people (Cameron's dancing).

Even the psychologist in the end was "infected" by the paranoia around him, becoming more like Sarah. The series is doing a great job with themes, exploring them one way then echoing them another way. Even the pleasant music during the dance was echoing the music from the Terminator's basement (in the future), where no doubt very unpleasant things were happening.

Still, the underlying "DNA" (for machines, programming) remains, with Cameron spending zero time or CPU cyles to worry about those 2 troubled Russian immigrants getting killed, after she completed her "mission" of acquiring the next clue to be followed.


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## fnmag (Mar 3, 2008)

Outstanding! The season finale was well done tonight. I especially liked the Johnny Cash music and the camera angle from the bottom of the swimming pool. 
Now the wait starts until the next season.


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## LED_Thrift (Mar 4, 2008)

Arrgh... I missed it  . :sigh: .  .


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## jzmtl (Mar 4, 2008)

It'll be online by tomorrow. I'm waiting for it since I don't have it on tv here.


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## LED_Thrift (Mar 4, 2008)

Great, thanks. I did not know that.


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## js (Mar 4, 2008)

Solid episodes, once again. I really hope they pick this series up for a second season.

Lux,

As for Jericho, honestly, I've been a bit less impressed with the episodes so far this season than with the first season, but they're still doing pretty well considering that they probably lost half their actors. I'm definitely a fan of Jericho, in any case. Good to hear that the last episode got higher ratings.

As for CSI, I guarantee you that they are not in the least concerned, one way or another, with how Jericho does. The CSI shows and American Idol freaking ruled the ratings, last time I heard.


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## flashy bazook (Mar 4, 2008)

Not a bad season finale, considering the short "season" they had to work with.

I guess I can say "I told you so" on the futility of the police investigation angle for this show. The moment they finally home-in and surround Cromartie, the whole SWAT squad gets obliterated. So much for all this time spent watching the various police investigators discuss the case. Now they are dead, or facing deep psychological questions.

I did think it was a bit of a cheap trick to end on the familiar cliff-hanger, will she "live", or won't she? I guess it helps if they need to change the actress for some reason, they can just send in another female (and fairly young, since Sarah covers the older angle) terminator.

Well, I also hope they renew the show and expand its range a little bit, this Skynet angle also can be confining over time. I mean the terminators can always set up another company in another state, right?

On Jericho, I have to say I've watched that show very little, for some reason it never grabbed me. I just watched a bit of today's show, and it is very inferior to the Terminator (SC) Chronicles in terms of script and character development.

(example: "this looks to be some kind of hard drive", said he as he handed what looked like a hard drive with "Seagate" written all over it). Or "it looks like they came back to cover their tracks and left something behind". I mean, Really.)

We're really hurting for good sci-fi shows right now, I guess we're paying for the too large number of shows we got a few years back when sci-fi was in fashion, which ended up getting people fed up or bored, and now we get the police/cop shows plus the supernaturals saturating the airwaves.


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## bobisculous (Mar 5, 2008)

Ended up being a heck of a show in my opinion.

Johns birthday present from his uncle was pretty cool. I do hope they bring the show back with another season. 

-C


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## js (Mar 6, 2008)

flashy,

I think the police investigation angle of the show served its purpose, and still has a role to play in the upcoming (hopefully) season.

As for the cliffhanger ending, I think they had to do what they could with what they had. If we ignore the "will she live" bit and stop thinking of it as a cliffhanger, though, then it's a fine plot branching--that they didn't actually have the right "boss" guy, but rather only a stand-in, and that mistake is interesting, and could cost them Camerons skin. Certainly, that explosion wouldn't come close to killing an advanced model terminator, but it could fry off her skin, I suppose. Even so, it's upsetting and unsettling as a final scene, and I agree with you that it's sort of a less than skillful way to end a season finale, albeit all too common nonetheless.


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## Chronos (Mar 10, 2008)

I've had to watch almost every episode via my PVR- traveling too much lately.

I've been enjoying this show. Sure there are a few flaws, but I think it has been nicely executed. I like the way it dives into the story behind the story. 

I thought the final episode was also well executed. I created a nice cliffhanger, tied up a few loose ends, but left a lot of plot development possibilities for the next (hoping here...) season.

I'm also a softie at times, so I loved the scene of watching the brothers playing ball in the park. Those type of twists really help to broaden the storyline. 

Nicely done. Thanks for the "head's up" on the series. I probably would have missed it if not for this thread!:thumbsup:


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## Tachikoma (Mar 10, 2008)

One hell of a beginning (for the second seson) would be a scene with Cameron walking out of the burning car without skin, so a totally cool endoskeleton, and the detective arriving on the scene to witness it :thumbsup:


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## jzmtl (Mar 10, 2008)

Yeah, I'm wondering how are they gona get her out of there without everyone on the street screaming alien invasion.

I friggin hate cliffhanger thou, good thing south park is about to start to take my mind off this.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 12, 2008)

I will almost be as disappointed if they don't have a season two after that cliffhanger, as I was with Jericho. I'm resolved these 7 episodes are the end of Jericho.

On the good side of Sci-Fi, my Stargate "Ark of Truth" DVD arrived today, so I can see the end of the Ori !!! LOL! WooT


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## bhds (Mar 12, 2008)

Hulu.com has 4 episodes and a few extras for your viewing pleasure


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 13, 2008)

ScFy Portal is reporting that SCC is picking up a 2nd season. They have been reliable on topics like this.


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## fnmag (Mar 13, 2008)

I'll beawaitin'


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## katsyonak (Mar 13, 2008)

That's good news


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## Tachikoma (Apr 16, 2008)

2nd season officially confirmed :twothumbs
http://sarahconnorsociety.com/2008/...ident-kevin-reilly-confirms-season-2-of-tscc/


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## js (Apr 16, 2008)

How cool is THAT!?! Awesome! Thanks for the info, Tachikoma! Sounds official for sure, now, doesn't it?


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## Tachikoma (Apr 16, 2008)

Yep and I'm really happy about it! 
I'm looking forward to see how they continue the Cameron's car explosion scene :thumbsup:


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## m16a (Apr 16, 2008)

YAYAYAYAY RENEWAL!!!!:twothumbs :twothumbs


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## katsyonak (Apr 16, 2008)

That's great, thanks for the update!


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## fnmag (Apr 16, 2008)

Good stuff. Glad to hear about this. :thumbsup:


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## NA8 (Apr 17, 2008)

Here's a little bonus vector from the good news site:

http://www.vanityfair.com/fame/features/2007/05/vanities_portfolio200705?slide=2#globalNav


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## js (Apr 17, 2008)

NA8 said:


> Here's a little bonus vector from the good news site:
> 
> http://www.vanityfair.com/fame/features/2007/05/vanities_portfolio200705?slide=2#globalNav



Wow. Summer, and then on that same page, a link to Kristen Bell. Two of my very favorite actresses. Thanks!


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## Tachikoma (Apr 22, 2008)

2 fresh news :thumbsup:
The second season of T:TSCC will be composed of 13 episodes, not 9 as the first 
About T4 movie, uncle Arnie might star in it if they shoot it in California


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## scaredofthedark (Apr 22, 2008)

that's interesting that they have a 2nd season
the viewers were decreasing in number as each episode went on


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## zpaulg (Apr 24, 2008)

Watched "connor" eps 1-9 very enjoyable!

Bionic woman...Michelle Ryan...babe...but stopped watching!

Apparently "Bionic Woman" won't be getting second series anyway and rightly so!!!


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## fnmag (Aug 25, 2008)

Fox just repeated the entire 1st season over the course of the last few weeks. Tonight was the last episode, cliff-hanger, and I'm totally primed and waiting for the 2d season to "kick off" in September. 
The last episode that features the music of Johnny Cash and Cromartie dispatching the FBI agents, like rag dolls into the swimming pool, is one of the most emotional and visually stirring pieces of work that has aired on network TV. 
I am soo "hooked" that I either need an intervention or a serious dose of meds to handle the anxiety. :thumbsup:


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## js (Aug 25, 2008)

fnmag,

Right you are! I'm stoked for the 2nd season, and am thinking seriously about buying the 1st season on DVD. Amazon has it for $19 or something. I saw the preview for the 2nd season, and it looks good (as much as one can tell from something like that). Solid entertainment so far, and promises more of the same, or better, I think.


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## Niconical (Aug 25, 2008)

fnmag said:


> I am soo "hooked" that I either need an intervention or a serious dose of meds to handle the anxiety. :thumbsup:


 
This thread has clearly gone off topic and should be moved to general flashlight discussion. 



Oh, right, I get it, still talking about the TV show 
(Which BTW, is excellent).


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## m16a (Aug 26, 2008)

In case anyone is curious, the new season gets kicked off September 8th on FOX at 8PM EST:twothumbs:twothumbs


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## jzmtl (Aug 26, 2008)

Ohh nice, earlier than south park.


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## AlexGT (Aug 26, 2008)

I watched all the episode on Hulu and the series are very good, I tought cromarty was going to ask for the connor file, but instead he left, WTF! I would have! Anyway I will definetly see the season 2

AlexGT


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## Ras_Thavas (Aug 27, 2008)

I think it makes sense that Cromartie would let Ellison live. He knows Ellison will continue to search for Sarah, and he should be able to keep tabs on Ellison by hacking the FBI computers. In essence, it gives him another set of eyes.


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## NA8 (Aug 28, 2008)

fnmag said:


> The last episode that features the music of Johnny Cash and Cromartie dispatching the FBI agents, like rag dolls into the swimming pool, is one of the most emotional and visually stirring pieces of work that has aired on network TV.



I tuned in for a repeat of the season finale in HD and yeah it was better than I remembered. That Johnny Cash Music Video was pretty sweet. If the annoying kid can grow a set it may be a good season.


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## kavvika (Sep 8, 2008)

*sorry*



wow, what season premier!


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## jzmtl (Sep 8, 2008)

Ah crap, totally forgot about it. Well I'll d/l it tomorrow.


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## AlexGT (Sep 8, 2008)

When is the new season starting? 

AlexGT


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## Tachikoma (Sep 8, 2008)

Kavvika please write *SPOILER* next time! 
Alex it started a few hours ago 
Jzmti I'm forced to do the same thing because I live in Italy, maybe I'll even wait another day to download the 720p version


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## fnmag (Sep 9, 2008)

Top notch 2d season opener. I'll not comment on the content as many have not seen it yet. I'm quite satisfied and this season kicks off with a real bang. Directly builds on the last season and contiunes to excel. 
That Summer...ya just gota luv'er....I mean, oh, what a great actress!
:thumbsup:


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 9, 2008)

I missed tonights show. Is it being played again this week?

Bill


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## Sigman (Sep 9, 2008)

Previews look great for next week as well!


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## js (Sep 9, 2008)

Yeah, I was certainly not disappointed with the season 2 opener! And I would definitely say it looks as if they plan to do some good stuff with John, if this first episode is any indication.


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## Tachikoma (Sep 9, 2008)

I couldn't wait for the 720p so I watched the 480p: truly amazing :twothumbs

*SPOILER*
Scroll down to read...



































































Am I the only one who has thought from the first scene that Catherine Weaver was a (liquid) metal?


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## AlexGT (Sep 9, 2008)

The season premiere is now on hulu.com

http://www.hulu.com/watch/33738/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-samson-and-delilah

AlexGT


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## sed6 (Sep 9, 2008)

I gotta say, I watched the recap at the beginning of the show and thought 'this crap belongs on Lifetime.' I changed the channel and removed the season pass from my TiVO.


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## m16a (Sep 9, 2008)

Awesome season opener. Very good show. The next few weeks look to be excellent. Can't wait for mondays!!


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 9, 2008)

I caught up with it today. Replay on fox.com. Yeah, awesome. A little "liquid steel there?".

Bill


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## js (Sep 10, 2008)

sed6 said:


> I gotta say, I watched the recap at the beginning of the show and thought 'this crap belongs on Lifetime.' I changed the channel and removed the season pass from my TiVO.



Fascinating!

So, you're saying that from the 30 second recap you were able to judge the entire show (which you never watched)?

Or are you saying that the 30 second recap made you recall all the episodes that you did watch, and gave you enough of an overview to realize "this crap belongs on Lifetime"? Or what?

LOL!

Don't take this post as serious or anything, though! I don't mind in the least that you disdain the SCC. I'm mostly just bemused.

BTW, have you seen what's on Lifetime? I mean, however bad SCC may be in someone's opinion, it's definitely not a Lifetime candidate show! That's for certain.


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## Tachikoma (Sep 10, 2008)

Do you know if they'll ever release the Samson and Delilah cover by Shirley Manson on cd?


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## cobra-ak (Sep 10, 2008)

Just bought S1 box set so I posted this thread without reading any post, did not want spoilers.


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## Tachikoma (Sep 10, 2008)

Blu-ray, right?


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## NA8 (Sep 11, 2008)

I was taping it but the Raiders sucked so bad I watched it live in HD instead. Looks like it'll be a good season for the Chronicles, not so good for the Raiders.


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## Tachikoma (Sep 11, 2008)

I've watched it for the third time, in 720p finally, and I can't wait for the next episode now


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## js (Sep 16, 2008)

Good episode last night! I'm liking what they are doing with John.


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## cy (Sep 16, 2008)

just watch ep 1 season 2

excellent!


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## fnmag (Sep 17, 2008)

"Hi, I'm Cindy...I'm new in town". 
I like the fact that they're opening up new avenues for the characters. :thumbsup:


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## UncleFester (Sep 18, 2008)

Dang it I haven't been keeping up. I didn't even know it started again. 
Off topic: is 24 starting up again too?


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 18, 2008)

UncleFester said:


> Dang it I haven't been keeping up. I didn't even know it started again.
> Off topic: is 24 starting up again too?



Go to fox.com and catch up. 

Bill


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## NeonLights (Sep 19, 2008)

UncleFester said:


> Dang it I haven't been keeping up. I didn't even know it started again.
> Off topic: is 24 starting up again too?


IIRC 24 will have a 2-hour special movie sometime in November (saw the trailer for it, looks good), and then the show will start its regular 24 episode season in January.


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## jzmtl (Sep 24, 2008)

This week's episode =


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## Tachikoma (Sep 24, 2008)

Why? I really liked it, Chromartie is truly a smart ***!


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## js (Sep 24, 2008)

FWIW, I too liked this weeks episode.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 24, 2008)

Chromartie shows up at the funeral, just in case John was going to be there. Our FBI guy does not bother him. Chromartie can do what ever he pleases. Actually he comes across as a pretty cool guy.

Bill


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## jzmtl (Sep 24, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> Why? I really liked it, Chromartie is truly a smart ***!



I meant as the episode is kinda sad.



Bullzeyebill said:


> Chromartie shows up at the funeral, just in case John was going to be there. Our FBI guy does not bother him. Chromartie can do what ever he pleases. Actually he comes across as a pretty cool guy.
> 
> Bill



Probably because he can't do anything about cromartie anyway. 

I wonder would terminators be able to stand up to 30mm AP rounds...


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## m16a (Sep 24, 2008)

js said:


> FWIW, I too liked this weeks episode.




Seconded:thumbsup:


So in regards to Reilly, does anyone think thats a side plot at all? Some sort of method for him to rebel and try and lead a normal life? Some sort of assassin(far fetched I know) or just a character, nothing special, but part of the show? And why couldn't they have chosen someone a little easier on the eyes...


----------



## TITAN1833 (Sep 24, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> I wonder would terminators be able to stand up to 30mm AP rounds...


Yes of coarse,they were designed to take 50mm AP rounds and more :twothumbs


----------



## fnmag (Sep 24, 2008)

Ditch the metal miss to sneak away with Reilly?......Bad move.


----------



## Flashfirstask?later (Sep 24, 2008)

Next weeks episode will be more focused on the terminatrix.. 

The Catherine Weaver drinking water is interesting as was it a rouse or did she need it... And Cromartie does not float. It is said they wanted to do at least one underwater fight scene so hopefully this was not it.


----------



## Tachikoma (Sep 24, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> Yes of coarse,they were designed to take 50mm AP rounds and more :twothumbs


 
Speaking about guns, Derek is a complete idiot: who the hell would use a m79 in a cqb?


----------



## Flashfirstask?later (Sep 24, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> Speaking about guns, Derek is a complete idiot: who the hell would use a m79 in a cqb?


And it did not seem like he really had any backup or extra rounds.


----------



## FrogmanM (Sep 24, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> Speaking about guns, Derek is a complete idiot: who the hell would use a m79 in a cqb?


Maybe he was packing something a lil diff?

Mayo

(not bad so far, looking forward to next week's show) More Glau!


----------



## jzmtl (Sep 24, 2008)

Flashfirstask?later said:


> And it did not seem like he really had any backup or extra rounds.



And as if the shotgun will actually hurt the terminator before it walks up to you, twist your shotgun to a pretzel and choke you with it. :shrug:


----------



## Flashfirstask?later (Sep 24, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> And as if the shotgun will actually hurt the terminator before it walks up to you, twist your shotgun to a pretzel and choke you with it. :shrug:


An explosive round might (as per near end of S01E06), however inside the small rooms he would have had the potential of hurting himself in the process. Well maybe not twist around neck like in a Bugs Bunny cartoon but perhaps stab him with the barrel or clobber him with it.


----------



## Gunnerboy (Sep 24, 2008)

***SPOILER***










How far do you folks think the James Ellison character will help Catherine "T-1000" Weaver, despite knowing what he already knows?

I know the dude needs a job, but his character is supposed to be religious, and he should have sympathy for the plight of the Connors now.

Gary


----------



## jzmtl (Sep 25, 2008)

Depends on when he find out she's metal I suppose.


----------



## cy (Sep 25, 2008)

anyone else hosting this? 

hulu.com is a pita to use... too many ads ... repeatly stops for 30 seconds



AlexGT said:


> The season premiere is now on hulu.com
> 
> http://www.hulu.com/watch/33738/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-samson-and-delilah
> 
> AlexGT


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## Tachikoma (Sep 25, 2008)

You'll have to download the episodes from megaupload.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 25, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> You'll have to download the episodes from megaupload.




Go to Fox.com and play any of the past episodes.

Bill


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## wquiles (Sep 25, 2008)

This is cool - a group of folks who loves the same series that I do. I loved the first season, and I really liked episode 1 of the second season. The latest episode is recorded, but I have not watch it yet 

Will


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## PurpleDrazi (Sep 26, 2008)

Gunnerboy said:


> How far do you folks think the James Ellison character will help Catherine "T-1000" Weaver, despite knowing what he already knows?
> 
> I know the dude needs a job, but his character is supposed to be religious, and he should have sympathy for the plight of the Connors now.



Perhaps he thinks that by joining (if he joins), he can find information that would help the Connors?

Francis


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## UncleFester (Sep 26, 2008)

Those episodes are entirely too short.


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## Tachikoma (Sep 30, 2008)

Oh my God, I've just seen the 2x04 and I can say for sure it's the best episode ever :twothumbs
Kudos to the writers, now I'm really 100% hooked up


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## m16a (Sep 30, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> Oh my God, I've just seen the 2x04 and I can say for sure it's the best episode ever :twothumbs
> Kudos to the writers, now I'm really 100% hooked up



Great, it sucks hearing that about the ONE episode in the show's history I forgot to record

Hopefully my friend has it on DVR..


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## js (Sep 30, 2008)

It really was a great episode!


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## m16a (Sep 30, 2008)

js said:


> It really was a great episode!



The torture of this statement....:laughing:


Where can I watch it online?


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## js (Sep 30, 2008)

m16a,

I know you can buy it from the iTunes store . . . if that helps.


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## jzmtl (Sep 30, 2008)

m16a said:


> The torture of this statement....:laughing:
> 
> 
> Where can I watch it online?



bit torrent, newsgroup, pick your poision.


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## UncleFester (Sep 30, 2008)

Did I mention those episodes are entirely too short? LOL
Just watched Season 2 Episode 4. Wow
*** Spoiler alert****
How did the Cameron terminator get Allison's memories? weird. J C's head on a pike? Now we have to wonder what her mission really is. Was Allison's personality originally to get close to JC to terminate him? A lot of questions. very few answers. wow. 
This was a really good episode. MUCH better than the "John's got a girlfriend and doesn't care about anything else" ones.


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## Flashfirstask?later (Sep 30, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> bit torrent, newsgroup, pick your poision.


In Canada they repeat it a few times on Saturday on the http://www.spacecast.com/ channel. Have you checked to see if it is on alternate later times/channels ?


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## Flashfirstask?later (Sep 30, 2008)

UncleFester said:


> Did I mention those episodes are entirely too short? LOL
> Just watched Season 2 Episode 4. Wow
> *** Spoiler alert****
> How did the Cameron terminator get Allison's memories? weird. J C's head on a pike? Now we have to wonder what her mission really is. Was Allison's personality originally to get close to JC to terminate him? A lot of questions. very few answers. wow.
> This was a really good episode. MUCH better than the "John's got a girlfriend and doesn't care about anything else" ones.


It looks as if she was replicated so as to infiltrate John Conner's camp as she said she was a resistance infiltrator when she was talking to the one women. Since we have seen terminators (including Cameron in first season) that was reprogrammed to be used for things, it is possible Cameron was captured at some point in a future infiltration which we may see in a future episode perhaps.


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## Rothrandir (Sep 30, 2008)

Did they ditch their phone answering code of date/year because Chromarte figured it out, or was that a production error?


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## jzmtl (Sep 30, 2008)

Flashfirstask?later said:


> In Canada they repeat it a few times on Saturday on the http://www.spacecast.com/ channel. Have you checked to see if it is on alternate later times/channels ?



No, I pretty much always download it off bit torrent since I'm often not there to watch the TV broadcast.


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## Flashfirstask?later (Sep 30, 2008)

Stupid vBulletin way of Quoting...

I was directing more towards m16a as he was wanting to see this episode.

Shrugs.. I have two VCR's, a PVR, digital cable for different channels/times and the download option.


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## m16a (Sep 30, 2008)

Flashfirstask?later said:


> Stupid vBulletin way of Quoting...
> 
> I was directing more towards m16a as he was wanting to see this episode.
> 
> Shrugs.. I have two VCR's, a PVR, digital cable for different channels/times and the download option.



Thanks man. I'll check the link out


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 1, 2008)

If all else fails you can watch it on fox.com.

Bill


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## Tachikoma (Oct 1, 2008)

@Rothrandir
I think that's because the code is useless now that Chromartie knows it, they'll have to create a new one.


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## js (Oct 1, 2008)

UncleFester said:


> Did I mention those episodes are entirely too short? LOL
> Just watched Season 2 Episode 4. Wow
> *** Spoiler alert****
> How did the Cameron terminator get Allison's memories? weird. J C's head on a pike? Now we have to wonder what her mission really is. Was Allison's personality originally to get close to JC to terminate him? A lot of questions. very few answers. wow.
> This was a really good episode. MUCH better than the "John's got a girlfriend and doesn't care about anything else" ones.



While watching the episode, I was thinking that Cameron wasn't simply a terminator, but something more along the lines of a cyborg, with Cameron's brain and nervous system inside--to some degree--along with the chip and all the usual terminator stuff. But, obviously, that possibility is out.

I'm thinking right now that the machines, in trying to make the perfect infiltrator, started to actually achieve not just AI (which they already had) but _sentience_. The terminator Cameron is messed up precisely because she has been designed/programed to be so human--not just in appearance and acts, but more than that--and the machines had absolutely no way to predict that or understand that, before it was acheived.

So perhaps the terminator Cameron was telling the truth to Alison, about wanting to help humans? But then later, that strand of her "programing" lost to the standard "terminate" stuff.

It would explain not only this weeks episode, but also why in the beginning, when she was a student at John's school, she seemed so life-like, so human, but then later, was the standard, awkward terminator.

Bodes well for the rest of this season. Also looks like John will definitely be growing a pair in the next episode. Good for him.


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## Rothrandir (Oct 1, 2008)

> So perhaps the terminator Cameron was telling the truth to Alison, about wanting to help humans? But then later, that strand of her "programing" lost to the standard "terminate" stuff.



I'm confident that it was merely an act to try to get her to share the information. I do believe you are right on the rest of it though...


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 2, 2008)

Serious talk about imminent cancellation.


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## fnmag (Oct 2, 2008)

Oh no! They need to change the time slot so that it comes on after Prison Break. It's up against Monday Night Football and Dancing with the Stars. 
I'll never understand. They feed us pap all day long then put a couple of great shows on against each other! 
I really enjoyed this weeks episode concerning Cam and John. However, I could have done without the wasted 1/2 hour on Sarah and her new pregnant girlfriend. 
Give me more Tin Miss!


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## Flashfirstask?later (Oct 2, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> Serious talk about imminent cancellation.


From article " Of course, none of this has been confirmed by Fox, so treat this as rumor."

Not all media is going about the rumour of Fox cancelling or the show is doing poorly in ratings. 

"Terminator" is Dominating http://www.entertainmenttoday.net/content/view/705/29/ (Oct.1), 

Even so, they really should move it to say Wednesday instead of blaming Terminator for bring down Prison Breaks ratings when PB has been going downhill in quality since after first season anyways.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 3, 2008)

Flashfirstask?later said:


> From article " Of course, none of this has been confirmed by Fox, so treat this as rumor."
> 
> Not all media is going about the rumour of Fox cancelling or the show is doing poorly in ratings.
> 
> ...



Every website has an interpretation. Then there are the actual ratings--Here they are by episode Jan-Mar. Then there are the FOX ratings for recent month here, which are not as high. 

Coincidentally, this week we just got sent 3 x Nielsen TV Viewing Diaries to fill in. It's pretty interesting to see how they actually get their information....very time intensive on the viewer but also on Nielsen interpreting a manually filled in diary for each TV you have in your home.


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 4, 2008)

Let's just enjoy it while we have it. What we can do constructive is write Fox and tell them our feelings.

Bill


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## m16a (Oct 4, 2008)

Anyone have a link to the peak at next week's episode? I watched the recent one on fox's site, but it didn't include the preview


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## Flashfirstask?later (Oct 5, 2008)

m16a said:


> Anyone have a link to the peak at next week's episode? I watched the recent one on fox's site, but it didn't include the preview


http://sarahconnorsociety.net/2008/10/03/2-clips-from-02x05-goodbye-to-all-that/
First some 13 seconds of http://sarahconnorsociety.net/2008/10/04/goodbye-to-all-that-tscc-prison-break-promo/


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## Flashfirstask?later (Oct 5, 2008)

edit: unintended double post as forum posted twice instead of edit due to forum loading problems..


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## kavvika (Oct 6, 2008)

Yes! This show has *it* again! Tonight's episode was spectacular. I was a bit tired of Johns' whiny "girlfriend." Hopefully we won't see her again.


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## Flashfirstask?later (Oct 7, 2008)

A teaser of next episode at the end shows Cameron fighting with Catherine Weaver (morphed as a diffrent body) in a elevator.

Tonights episode does seem like a part of a sequal of the first two Terminator movies. Also has some nice flashbacks er.. future flashbacks of the future Reese came from.

edit: Next episode will not be until October 20.


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## UncleFester (Oct 8, 2008)

This episode wasn't quite as good as the previous one IMHO. 
Did I ever mention those episodes are entirely too short? LOL


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## bobisculous (Oct 9, 2008)

I liked this episode a lot. The Wizard of Oz thing was rather interesting. One thing that bugged me was the fact the kid was not at all worried about the entire situation...

And this episode was strangly longer at 50 minutes, rather than 40-42


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## NeonLights (Oct 9, 2008)

bobisculous said:


> And this episode was strangly longer at 50 minutes, rather than 40-42


 That's because it was sponsored by Dodge trucks with limited commercial interruptions, and all those were short Dodge truck commercials. More and more TV shows are doing this, giving one sponsor exclusive commercial rights to a show and making it 50+ minutes instead of the normal 42-43 minutes. Fringe and Knight Rider (I can't believe I watched that show) have done this in the last few weeks, and 24 does it on occasion too.


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## bobisculous (Oct 9, 2008)

Ah, I gotcha. I likely would have learned that had I watched it on TV and not my computer. 

Thanks,
-Cameron


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## NeonLights (Oct 9, 2008)

bobisculous said:


> Ah, I gotcha. I likely would have learned that had I watched it on TV and not my computer.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Cameron


Well, even without commercials, there was a lot of Dodge product placement in the show as well. IIRC Dodge is giving away a Ram truck just like the one in this weeks show.


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## Rothrandir (Oct 9, 2008)

If Dodge is heavily advertising on this show, maybe it would help to somehow let them know that people are watching this show, and their advertising there is not going unnoticed?


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## bhds (Oct 10, 2008)

Man, I hope next weeks show doesn't "jump the shark". That brief little clip of cameron fighting the other terminator seemed like it was played for laughs. Looked totally silly. Also, the last episode I thought really stretched plausibility.
:sigh:


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## jzmtl (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm kinda confused by the Waver character, if she's a machine why is she hiring the FBI guy do all these investigation, into facts she already know? It's not like they need to find out who is the terminator protecting Connor, they fought enough times to know. 

Wonder if she's from a third faction or something?


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## Rothrandir (Oct 19, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> I'm kinda confused by the Waver character, if she's a machine why is she hiring the FBI guy do all these investigation, into facts she already know? It's not like they need to find out who is the terminator protecting Connor, they fought enough times to know.
> 
> Wonder if she's from a third faction or something?



It's really too early to have any idea what's going on with that, but seems to me that she's simply trying to reinforce her story and get/keep him interested and wanting more.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 20, 2008)

Good news they just gave it as full season.


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## js (Oct 21, 2008)

Thanks for posting that link, Lux!

I noticed on tonight's episode that they said that in two weeks there would be new episodes all through November, and I was very pleased to hear that, because, the episodes are really quite good, relative to a lot of stuff that's on TV right now. I was particularly impressed with tonight's episode. I mean, it's not Firefly or anything, but it's solid and enjoyable and multi-layered, with decent acting and engaging characters. That's usually more than you can ask for!

I loved the fight scene between the two terminators in this most recent episode. It's interesting to think about how two such machines _would_ actually fight. And it makes sense--what they did and how they show them fighting--with the pushing and the attempts to disable the extremities and so on. Really neat.

Also I liked --****SPOILER ALERT****-- the reversal of John being the one who actually killed when they were tied up and being interrogated, and not his mother.

And, DAMN!, who the hell is this new female character? Zowie!!!


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## Rothrandir (Oct 21, 2008)

I don't recall the original tied-up scene, could you offer a quick explanation of what happened and how it relates to this episode?


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## PurpleDrazi (Oct 21, 2008)

Rothrandir said:


> I don't recall the original tied-up scene, could you offer a quick explanation of what happened and how it relates to this episode?



Sequence of events:

* Car, with Cameron inside, blows up

[end Season 1]

* Season 2 begins with Sarah and John hearing explosion and rushing to front door

* Bad guys over-come Sarah and John and tie them up while searching for hard drive.

* Cameron enters house and kills bad guy #1, goes upstairs to see Sarah and John and dead bad guy #2

From the first episode of season 2 til now we see flashbacks of the event which deliberately avoid showing how bad guy #2 gets dead. We find out now that this is John's first kill.

Francis


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## Tachikoma (Oct 21, 2008)

I actually imagined from the beginning that SPOILER





SPOILER
John killed Sarkissian
SPOILER





SPOILER

About new questions, do you think the female terminator was sent to kill the doctor, preventing him to help the t1001 (maybe she has different plans from Skynet's ones)?


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## bhds (Oct 22, 2008)

bhds said:


> Man, I hope next weeks show doesn't "jump the shark". That brief little clip of cameron fighting the other terminator seemed like it was played for laughs. Looked totally silly.......
> :sigh:




Ayup :shakehead


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## UncleFester (Oct 23, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> *******SPOILER********
> 
> .......About new questions, do you think the female terminator was sent to kill the doctor, preventing him to help the t1001 (maybe she has different plans from Skynet's ones)?



Yep, I think she was supposed to kill the psychologist. If that's the case, Cameron blew it. Also why in the Hayel does John keep doing things to sabotage his mission (to survive to wipe out skynet)? Destroying that bug sure was a mistake.IMHO


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## Flashfirstask?later (Oct 24, 2008)

UncleFester said:


> Yep, I think she was supposed to kill the psychologist. If that's the case, Cameron blew it. Also why in the Hayel does John keep doing things to sabotage his mission (to survive to wipe out skynet)? Destroying that bug sure was a mistake.IMHO


But if he had not disabled the bug, Cameron would not have encountered the Terminator in time as what if this female Terminator recognized John and targeted him instead.

The next show will be Nov.3, where there will be four episodes that month.


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## jzmtl (Oct 25, 2008)

UncleFester said:


> Yep, I think she was supposed to kill the psychologist. If that's the case, Cameron blew it.



I don't think so. The terminator Cameron killed has the chip protection technology that's intended to prevent the resistance from reprogram it, so it couldn't have been sent by the resistance. Whatever the intention of the dead terminator, it's most likely sent by skynet, not resistance. So by kill it Cameron prevented skynet from doing whatever it tried to do.


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## Flashfirstask?later (Nov 10, 2008)

Tin can six feet under and you see things from multiple persons point of view.


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## fnmag (Nov 10, 2008)

Serious action has returned tonight! 
Thank goodness as I was getting tired of watching John act like a spoiled brat. :candle:


Notice how the buttstock keeps changing on the MP5 when Cros' chip is dispatched.


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## js (Nov 11, 2008)

Good episode tonight. Solid. Enjoyable. I'm glad the show is continuing! But I'm also hoping for more, and for John to come into his own. And of course for more gratuitous shots of Cameron. LOL!


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## cy (Nov 11, 2008)

is there any other place to watch current SCC? other than Hulu with it's super obnoxious ads way too many times per show.


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## shakeylegs (Nov 11, 2008)

cy said:


> is there any other place to watch current SCC? other than Hulu with it's super obnoxious ads way too many times per show.



Try the fox website. They have commercials also.


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## Nitroz (Nov 11, 2008)

The FOX website is excellent! It will draw you into other show also.


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## UncleFester (Nov 11, 2008)

Did I ever mention those episodes are entirely too short? 

Is it just me or is Cameron getting more emotive? She almost acts like she's secretly in love with JC. The way she said "I can't let anything happen to him" is one example. A non emotional Terminator would have said. "John Connor must survive" or something similar.

Also she has an interesting expression on her face when Cromartie falls in the church.........


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## NeonLights (Nov 11, 2008)

fnmag said:


> Notice how the buttstock keeps changing on the MP5 when Cros' chip is dispatched.


I noticed something in that scene, but I though it was showing that she broke the stock of the gun and kept smashing at the chip with it.

I was wondering though, with the arsenal they have access to in their "stash", why the heck didn't they pick up something bigger than the 9mm HK MP5's? Heck, in the episode that took place at the military academy, they used what looked like a .50 caliber Barrett to dispatch the terminator that was coming after John. I'd think they'd at least try and stick with rifle rounds in some relatively compact guns vs pistol round when they have the chance.


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## Tachikoma (Nov 11, 2008)

But the question remains this: what kind of shells did Cameron use to destroy Chromartie's endoskull like it was a piece of butter? :thinking:


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## NeonLights (Nov 11, 2008)

Tachikoma said:


> But the question remains this: what kind of shells did Cameron use to destroy Chromartie's endoskull like it was a piece of butter? :thinking:


Looked like a single projectile coming out of the 12 gauge pump shotgun she was using, so some sort of shotgun slug.


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## Flashfirstask?later (Nov 11, 2008)

NeonLights said:


> Looked like a single projectile coming out of the 12 gauge pump shotgun she was using, so some sort of shotgun slug.


Sabot slugs perhaps?



UncleFester said:


> Is it just me or is Cameron getting more emotive? She almost acts like she's secretly in love with JC.


I was wondering what she was up to when she dropped her jacket out side John's door and then went inside and proceeded to lay in bed beside John.


Edit: New episodes continue next Monday with Complications at 8PM/7PMc (only on FOX!) and air every Monday through the shocking end of our first thirteen episodes on December 15th! You’ll have to see it with your own eyes to believe it…

Then, get ready for the greatest night of sci-fi awesomeness that ever happened as we return with our fourteenth episode beginning on Friday, February 13, 2009.
http://www.fox.com/blogs/terminator/2008/11/12/addressing-the-schedule/


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## UncleFester (Nov 19, 2008)

More Cameron weridness....... She feels... Hmm It was ambigous if she has feelings though.


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## Tachikoma (Nov 25, 2008)

Wow, shocking episode's ending this week :twothumbs


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## UncleFester (Dec 3, 2008)

:yawn:


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## LuxLuthor (Dec 3, 2008)

UncleFester said:


> :yawn:



Hey, well at least it is consistently beating out "Kitchen Nightmares."


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## js (Dec 3, 2008)

I actually quite liked the last episode, but I totally understand why some might find it lacking (or confusing or somewhat of a non-sequitor).

I think the show as a whole is definitely lacking something--some glue that holds it all together, some element that really makes you want to see the next episode. I mean, I enjoy the show and I like the episodes but this is no Firefly or Veronica Mars or Buffy the Vampire Slayer, that's for sure. I think maybe it has something to do with a lack of _urgency_ for the viewer. In the big picture, what the heck is going on? Are we closer to surviving as a race? Farther away? What do all the various plot threads add up to? What tapestry do they weave?

It's just hard to say, really, isn't it? There's so much just hanging out there, flapping in the breeze. What's the deal with Cameron? What's the deal with the liquid metal terminator? What is happening with John? Who knows. It's hard to get engaged with the show at this level; hard to be rooting for the home team all that hard when you have no idea what the game plays even mean.


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## NA8 (Dec 4, 2008)

I enjoyed the night time library episode. Gotta say all the humans are pretty boring, but I like the metal. As long as they have Cameron stomping around like a runway model in Hi Def it'll have some socially redeeming value. :devil:

Loved the donuts.


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## Flashfirstask?later (Dec 4, 2008)

NA8 said:


> ..but I like the metal. As long as they have Cameron stomping around like a runway model in Hi Def it'll have some socially redeeming value. :devil:


especially the behind view... ...What?


Unless I missed the reason, why was she sticking the rod into the ground at different points?


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## js (Dec 4, 2008)

She was searching to see if Cromarties body was buried somewhere in the yard.


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## bobisculous (Dec 5, 2008)

Recent episodes have kind of bored me...

Hope they change that soon. Otherwise it will be another wait for a [hopefully] decent TV show...Top Gear USA.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Dec 5, 2008)

I must say that I sort of enjoyed the Cameron episode. She certainly is easy to look at. Of course, the plot was interesting too. :nana:

Bill


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## Tachikoma (Dec 5, 2008)

I liked the 20s part too, with the 888 preparing all for a 63 years wait


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## bhds (Dec 8, 2008)

I just watched the 1920's/Library episode. Did I miss an episode? Could someone give me a synopsis of what it was all about? Please


----------



## TOOCOOL (Dec 8, 2008)

Just in case ya missed one http://www.ninjavideo.net/cat/63


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## Tachikoma (Dec 9, 2008)

Just watched the last episode, I've laughed when the girl pulled out a couple of Surefire M4t when asked for flashlights, she must have been a flashaholic


----------



## AlexGT (Dec 9, 2008)

Yea that was funny! Sure, like everyone has one of those in an old drawer.


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 9, 2008)

Looks like Sara and Co. are out there saving the future. Latest mission to protect the girl who would later save mankind. Seemed strange that at first they did not know who they were protecting. Did I miss something. Last week they saved a future governor, why?

Bill


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## bhds (Dec 9, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Looks like Sara and Co. are out there saving the future. Latest mission to protect the girl who would later save mankind. Seemed strange that at first they did not know who they were protecting. Did I miss something. Last week they saved a future governor, why?
> 
> Bill




Yeah, Why? I just read a recap of the episode and I think it must be a "standalone" episode that doesnt have anything to do with the main story. Everything to do with why its going down in ratings though. 
I'm pretty close to giving up on it myself.:sigh:


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## kavvika (Dec 9, 2008)

As much as I feel this show is going downhill, I couldn't stop cracking up when that girl pulled two Surefire M4's out of the drawer of the rented cottage when Sarah asked her to help out by finding some flashlights.:laughing:


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 9, 2008)

In spite of some confusion re show's content, I like it. 

Bill


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## LuxLuthor (Dec 9, 2008)

Latest episode was another example of opening up new characters/plots without them being tied together. When you combine that with the time shifts/flashbacks, it is very hard to figure out what is going on, and in which time frame. This episode closes with the confounding final scene of girl/baby sister disappearing without explanation, and illustrates how the show's producers/writers seem to be going out of their way to get it cancelled. Next week's season finale looks good, but I'm not holding my breath on a new season afterwards.


----------



## wquiles (Dec 9, 2008)

+1 Getting too complicated - and no need for it. I like the series, but don't have high hopes for long term ...

Will


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## bhds (Dec 10, 2008)

I did notice one thing that my tie it in with the story line. Anyone notice the 3 bright stars that Cameron was looking at?


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## LuxLuthor (Dec 11, 2008)

LOL! In which reference time frame?


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## NeonLights (Dec 11, 2008)

kavvika said:


> As much as I feel this show is going downhill, I couldn't stop cracking up when that girl pulled two Surefire M4's out of the drawer of the rented cottage when Sarah asked her to help out by finding some flashlights.:laughing:


I pointed that out to my wife as well. Looks like that's all the prop department had on hand. A couple of Mags or cheap plastic 2xD lights or 6V lanterns would have been much more appropriate.

I think they need to be careful about adding to the Terminator mythology. If all it takes to stun a terminator for two minutes (until they "reboot") is a good electric shock, why don't they just carry Tazers around? Might be a problem with a Tazer equipped human vs an armed termie, but give one to Cameron, or at least have one along for use on a terminator who runs out of bullets.

They also should ditch the shotguns and 9mm sub guns they always seem to carry to go up against the terminators. In the past they've used a short barreled .50 cal Barrett with good success, so you'd think they would try to have one of those along, or at least some larger caliber semi-auto rifles like the .308 Ruger Mini-30 or M1A.


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## picard (Dec 11, 2008)

for a mother & son on the run from a killer machine, they certainly have time to buy high end SF lights. 

have you guys notice that alot of movies use SF lights?

What happen to other brand of lights?


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## picard (Dec 11, 2008)

shot guns and 9mm hand guns are useless against terminators. They need to use Barrett .50 automatic rifles or HK 416 rifles that use 6.8mm ammo.


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## bhds (Dec 11, 2008)

I just watched the last episode last night. Meh. I realize the terminators are strong, but how did that terminator throw cameron at least a couple of hundred yards into the cabin?


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 8, 2009)

A few more tidbits about the series supposed restarting Feb 13th.


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## jzmtl (Jan 8, 2009)

I hope they end the series well when it's time to do, don't start making up crap and turn into a soap opera like Lost did.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 9, 2009)

Well today marks the end of the Stargate Atlantis series which I enjoyed, and next week begins the end of the Battlestar Galactica series.:mecry:


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## Nitroz (Jan 9, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> Well today marks the end of the Stargate Atlantis series which I enjoyed, and next week begins the end of the Battlestar Galactica series.:mecry:



I am glad the BG series is coming to a very exciting ending, but I will definitley miss it when it's gone. 

Lost and 24 are the most annoying, never ending shows!


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## js (Jan 11, 2009)

God, isn't BSG the best freaking show on television! I just love it. It's amazing.


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## NA8 (Jan 12, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> Well today marks the end of the Stargate Atlantis series which I enjoyed,



That was a half decent series. They had good casting and fun dialog, but the episodes seemed doomed to running and shooting ad nauseum for some reason. 

Always loved it when they fired up the stardrive and got Atlantis off the ground. Did they ever give James Blish (Cities in Flight books) his props in the series ?


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## bhds (Jan 12, 2009)

A couple of months ago I racked my brain for well over a week trying to remember the name of those novels about cities in space I had read as a kid.:thinking: :kiss:




NA8 said:


> Did they ever give James Blish (Cities in Flight books) his props in the series ?


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 13, 2009)

NA8 said:


> Always loved it when they fired up the stardrive and got Atlantis off the ground. Did they ever give James Blish (Cities in Flight books) his props in the series ?



James Blish? Ummm...who? I don't take any of these shows that seriously to look for proper credits, accurate representation of facts/reality/science, etc. It's entertainment, show biz. I'm always amazed by trekkies, star wars fanatics, as well as sports nuts who know stats going back to Mickey Mantle by heart. Apparently there are people who know how to speak Klingon to each other.


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## js (Jan 13, 2009)

There's nothing wrong with being a geek of any stripe, whether it be sports or flashlights or Star Trek or music or general entertainment. There are much worse things you could do with your time and effort, and if it gives you joy and doesn't hurt anyone, who's to judge?


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## NA8 (Jan 13, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> James Blish? Ummm...who? ... I'm always amazed by trekkies, star wars fanatics, as well as sports nuts who know stats going back to Mickey Mantle by heart. Apparently there are people who know how to speak Klingon to each other.



James Blish wrote a series of stories back when about cities like Atlantis that replaced the tin can space ship architecture. 

Apparently fan fever doesn't change, check out the Futurians. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurians


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 14, 2009)

NA8 said:


> James Blish wrote a series of stories back when about cities like Atlantis that replaced the tin can space ship architecture.
> 
> Apparently fan fever doesn't change, check out the Futurians.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futurians



Cool link. Never heard of the guy. Thanks, NA8!

For all those who thrive on ascribing motivations and meanings beyond what is actually written: "I'm always amazed..."


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## UncleFester (Jan 14, 2009)

Since we've drifted off topic... Long ago James Blish managed to get some early versions of the original Star Trek scripts. He transcribed them into short novels. IHMO he did an awful job too. He had characters saying things they would never say on screen. He never verified that his novel followed the screen play...


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## js (Jan 14, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> Cool link. Never heard of the guy. Thanks, NA8!
> 
> For all those who thrive on ascribing motivations and meanings beyond what is actually written: "I'm always amazed..."



Lux,

Are you referring to me and my previous post in regards to ascribing motivations and meanings beyond what was actually written?

If so, you should know that I didn't ascribe any motivation or intention to what you wrote. And the only meaning I ascribed to it was that you personally didn't have time for such geekiness, but did have time to post that you didn't have time for it. My _positive_ post in support of all types of geekiness shouldn't be interpreted as any kind of affront towards you, Lux! I just felt a positive post in favor of geekiness was in order. That's all.


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## js (Jan 15, 2009)

Lux,

OK. Well, it seems pretty clear to me that you're ignoring me. And that is certainly your prerogative and I don't have a problem with it.

But, to be this way _and then_ post to my threads is something I do have a bit of a problem with. However, I can understand that just because I am the OP doesn't mean I "own" the thread, and you are free to post to whatever threads you would like to post to. So, OK, fine.

BUT, to ignore me, and then post to my own thread, and then snipe at me, --all the while "ignoring" me-- well . . . that's just something else entirely.

Ignore me. Or don't. As you chose. But you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Unless of course I'm misunderstanding your posts, in which case I would ask (once again) that you explain them, either by posting to this thread or by sending me a PM.


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## flashy bazook (Feb 11, 2009)

OK, looks like the series continues with a new episode the coming Friday, and another the following Friday. It's used in a time slot before the new series Dollhouse, already mentioned here, which itself has a very interesting sci-fi theme.

I thought the last few episodes from T-TSCCs were episodic, focusing on aspects of what is going on. Some were quite remarkable.

Anyway, we now have blurbs on the two new episodes, as follows:

"An injured Sarah is guided by the image of John's father Kyle Reese, while Weaver's move to protect John Henry results in deadly consequences."

"Sarah, John, Cameron and Derek investigate the company town connected to the destroyed factory while Weaver sends her own man into town in search of a potential survivor."

Looks like Weaver is getting bigger play as a key protagonist. Also that the episodic nature of the (well...) episodes, will continue.

One funny tidbit, the yahoo TV-listing service has ratings of the first of these episodes (100% thumbs up, based on 10 ratings). But, it hasn't aired yet, has it? (maybe it has somewhere...).


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## js (Feb 11, 2009)

Yeah, I heard that TSSC was going to be in the time slot just before Dollhouse, and I also heard that this coming Friday, Eliza and Summer will be hosting both shows and talking and stuff during what would normally be commercial breaks. It's a promising two hours of TV to look forward to, in my opinion. I really hope Dollhouse takes off and that we have another Joss Whedon series for our collections, to go with Buffy and Firefly!


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## js (Feb 21, 2009)

Well, I'm still just not that excited by TSCC. Just doesn't engage me very much. I mean, I enjoy watching the show, and I'm glad it's still on, but I really wouldn't care too much if I missed an episode. It probably wouldn't matter. What really happens on that show from week to week, anyway? It's all over the place.

I mean, I would have liked to have seen John develop some leadership, some backbone, some smarts--something, ANYTHING to show why he's such a big deal in the future. But, no, nada, ixnay, nothing.

And Sarah is like disintegrating or something--she's supposed to be this almost mythic character--but I just don't see it in this series.

And Cameron? What the heck? They could at least capitalize on the fact that they have a TERMINATOR in their group and do something fun and cool with her in most episodes. But . . . no. She just stands around most of the time, doing nothing, saying nothing.

Stupid. They have good writers. They have good actors and actresses. The show has great potential. But, no, they are squandering it. It's really amazing that it hasn't been canceled yet.

Ah well . . .


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## dudemar (Feb 28, 2009)

js,

The reason why the show initially turned me off were the reasons you just cited. I saw its fate coming, and yes, it boils down to the producers/writers/directors. Like other sci-fi tv shows they just end up running out of ideas, and it becomes mindless drivel. Sliders, X-Files, First Wave, etc, all met the same fate. It becomes an endless "what happend to _____?" and "WTF is going on? I thought the series was about ______."

Characters go missing or take the backburner. The plot takes odd new paths that lead to nowhere. The enemies become boring.

I did enjoy the characters, though, more specifically the _actresses_. I couldn't take my eyes off of Sarah and Cameron- wowie zowie.


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## seaside (Feb 28, 2009)

Lot of people says its miscasting though, I still think its ok. 

John right now is just a wayward teenager kid, can't expect anything much at this moment. Hope that will change soon.

Sarah is doing ok though, she is bit too faminine to compare with original Sarah at the movies. Well... why they put this sarah instead of original sarah at TSCC is sort of understandable. Kid need mother more than a warrior. For warrior feature, that's what derrick is there for.

Cameron, I have no comment on this role. Its oddiest terminator I ever seen. This little doll should be quite advanced and stronger than regular cromatie though, sometimes it isn't. And, what the heck, I don't care. I just love Summer Glou. That's it. They better not replace her to other actress, or else.... LOL.


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## dudemar (Feb 28, 2009)

seaside said:


> And, what the heck, I don't care. I just love Summer Glou. That's it. They better not replace her to other actress, or else.... LOL.



Exactly.:naughty: They could show her for 2 hours for all I care!


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 2, 2009)

http://www.airlockalpha.com/news426113.html


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## Bullzeyebill (Mar 2, 2009)

I am still hanging in there with Sarah Conner Chronicles, but I will start taping it. I'm a big fan of Flashpoint. If Fox was smart they would include the commercials in their free replays and track the numbers. Advertisers might be happier. Also, do a survey on how many people are taping their shows.

Billl


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 3, 2009)

http://www.airlockalpha.com/news426119.html


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## flashy bazook (Mar 3, 2009)

I'm not so down on the series as some other posters here.

First you got to remember - it's the SARAH CONNOR chronicles, so it focuses a lot on her development, fears, and strengths, rather than her son John and his development as a future leader. From her point of view, John is still a teenager with weaknesses and teenage impulses.

The recent episodes on her injury and mistreatment (via dream sequences) mirror the mental stresses she endured prior to escaping from the mental hospital when John was in foster care. They kind of show that the pressures on her may be different, but are still very strong.

Second, it is true that the recent plot lines haven't converged and that a lot is being thrown about that isn't resolved. It could be that writing is weak because for a while it looked as if the series wouldn't be picked up, and maybe they had to come up with some episodes in a hurry, and they developed different ideas that could be filmed and presented "out of timeline".

But a series can recover from this sort of thing, one good example was the first season of "24", which went off the rails at one point with weak writing, but came back strong with good plots.


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## vestureofblood (Mar 3, 2009)

I am sure this has been mentioned, but so I don't have to read 11 pages of thread, can someone confirm the identity of the flashlight I so often see in Sara's hand?


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## FrogmanM (Mar 3, 2009)

I thought I saw some SF M4s in a few episodes...:thinking:

Mayo


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## seaside (Mar 3, 2009)

FrogmanM said:


> I thought I saw some SF M4s in a few episodes...:thinking:
> 
> Mayo


 
You got kin eyes. 
At least the flashlight she pulled out at the episode 15 looks like a SF M4.


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## Bullzeyebill (Mar 4, 2009)

flashy bazook said:


> I'm not so down on the series as some other posters here.
> 
> First you got to remember - it's the SARAH CONNOR chronicles, so it focuses a lot on her development, fears, and strengths, rather than her son John and his development as a future leader. From her point of view, John is still a teenager with weaknesses and teenage impulses.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the fresh look at this. I was forgetting that it is really her story. I won't give it up. Easy to get jaded, and expect what we expect.

Bill


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## vestureofblood (Mar 4, 2009)

FrogmanM said:


> I thought I saw some SF M4s in a few episodes...:thinking:
> 
> Mayo


 


seaside said:


> You got kin eyes.
> At least the flashlight she pulled out at the episode 15 looks like a SF M4.


 
That looks very similar to the light I saw as well.


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## js (Mar 5, 2009)

dudemar said:


> js,
> 
> The reason why the show initially turned me off were the reasons you just cited. I saw its fate coming, and yes, it boils down to the producers/writers/directors. Like other sci-fi tv shows they just end up running out of ideas, and it becomes mindless drivel. Sliders, X-Files, First Wave, etc, all met the same fate. It becomes an endless "what happend to _____?" and "WTF is going on? I thought the series was about ______."
> 
> ...



Indeed! Sarah and Cameron are enough to keep ME watching! LOL! zowie indeed.

But, you know, it's not that they don't have good ideas. I think they have some GREAT ideas in the mix, but there is no coherence, no excitement, no glue holding it all together. There are maybe too many ideas, too many directions. I don't mind character development and wandering plots and twists and turns and some creative and out-of-the-box stuff, but really, if you're not really excited and engaged with the show, it's all for naught. And I'm not really engaged and excited. That's just me. YMMV.


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## fnmag (Mar 21, 2009)

A very good episode tonight! I was losing hope with the series but was energized with tonights offering. Some very good action and removal of some dead weight. Hopefully a corner has been turned. The one downside for me, was the last 20 seconds of the show. Just when I though Johnnie was becoming a man... 
I hope they continue with action packed story lines such as this and make better use of the tin miss. :thumbsup:


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## js (Mar 21, 2009)

fnmag,

I agree! Much better episode tonight!

But I totally disagree about the last 20 seconds of the show. Who says a man can't cry? For me, that was proof that he IS becoming a man, a leader, starting to grow into the role he is supposedly going to play in the future. I believed it this time. FINALLY! Too little, too late, no doubt, but better than nothing.


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## UncleFester (Mar 23, 2009)

Yep, this was a good episode. Much better than the last few weeks. I agree with fnmag about removal of dead weight. When John was interrogating Jesse I was surprised by how much he knew and how well he handled it. I also agree with JS about the leader breaking down when the pressure is off but being cool when it's on (as in Jessie's interrogation).


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## fnmag (Mar 28, 2009)

Another good episode tonight. Series is again gaining momentum as the action increases. 
Sadly, only 2 episodes left this season. Should make for a couple of action packed weeks. :thumbsup:


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## fnmag (Apr 4, 2009)

Top notch episode tonight. This series has gone supernova! 
I almost gave up on it but it has completely turned around. 
Great action, plot twists, drama. 
After a highly charged storyline it was quite emotional watching John Henry and Savannah singing. 
Only one episode to go and I don't want it to end.


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 4, 2009)

fnmag said:


> Top notch episode tonight. This series has gone supernova!
> I almost gave up on it but it has completely turned around.
> Great action, plot twists, drama.
> After a highly charged storyline it was quite emotional watching John Henry and Savannah singing.
> Only one episode to go and I don't want it to end.



Have to agree. Big turnaround in quality last 3-4 episodes.


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## 1wrx7 (Apr 4, 2009)

fnmag said:


> Top notch episode tonight. This series has gone supernova!
> I almost gave up on it but it has completely turned around.
> Great action, plot twists, drama.
> After a highly charged storyline it was quite emotional watching John Henry and Savannah singing.
> Only one episode to go and I don't want it to end.


 
+1 I got kind of creeped out when they were singing together. The tune sounded familliar too. Did they use it in a previous episode? At some point I'll go back through the DVR and check... maybe I just heard it around St. Patty's day:shrug:


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## m16a (Apr 4, 2009)

I very rarely am shocked by something I see on TV, but during the last episode, my draw dropped twice. Once when Savannah ran into John's arms, and once when Sarah owned the cops, and then got tackled by 10 of them. Season finale is going to be great. CANNOT wait! :twothumbs:


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## Tachikoma (Apr 4, 2009)

Same here, really shocking episode last night 
I hope they'll make a 3rd season...


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 5, 2009)

Unfortunately, when you see consistent ratings numbers this bad, it would be unprecedented to see another season. About the only thing left that may give it a last chance is if the Terminator Salvation movie is a raging success in mid-May...but likely the decision will be made on the TV series by then.

This link shows the shows it was up against in same time slot, and how they scored.


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## jzmtl (Apr 6, 2009)

Duno about you guys but I lost interest a few episodes ago, it just seems they are going nowhere.


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 6, 2009)

jzmtl said:


> Duno about you guys but I lost interest a few episodes ago, it just seems they are going nowhere.



I know what you mean...but when you have TIVO, you can start watching and if it sucks, delete it. The last couple episodes they started killing off a number of the distracting sideline characters, getting back to basics and it was somewhat better. Unfortunately, they also added back another terminator we had not seen before, which makes four + a sophistocated supercomputer network that seems separate from "John Henry." Obviously, no way to tie all that up in season finale this week...so it will either be a setup for season three (fat chance), or more likely a DVD movie...or most likely another hose job to the loyal fans. The "word" is that the season ends with a cliff-hanger which sucks.

The Terminator Salvation (#4) has different characters, so not much tie-in there either.

You really have to like Sci-Fi for its own sake anymore, because the TV studios, writers, ratings, or some other bull crap ends up ruining many a TV series before the fans get a complete story.


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## jzmtl (Apr 6, 2009)

Yeah that's what I hate, shows that just disappear and leave the viewers hanging. Oh well, at least battlestar galactica got to finish it.


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## sygyzy (Apr 6, 2009)

I just watched the episode last night. Did Derek really die? I mean I saw it but couldn't believe it. Was this the season finale?


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 6, 2009)

Yeah, he really died as well as the two "girlfriends," and EMT friend/father figure. No the finale is this friday.


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## sygyzy (Apr 6, 2009)

I can't believe so much happened in this season. I love shows that don't drag stuff on.


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 6, 2009)

Well IMHO, this show's ratings tanked because they introduced so many irrelevant characters, plot lines, time jumping, and geographical locations. Trying to keep it all logically connected was nearly impossible. They seem to have realized their writing errors in the last few episodes, but is likely too late now, since the original core audience has bailed.


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## js (Apr 6, 2009)

It's too late, but these last two episodes have been MUCH better than the norm of season 2 fare. I wish they could have written ALL the episodes at this level, with this amount of relevance and suspense. They're finally connecting stuff, finally making you freaking CARE.

I knew all along that that woman liquid terminator wasn't part of skynet and was doing her own thing. My guess is that she's the liquid metal terminator that was aboard the submarine who said "no" to John Connor's offer to join him, because she realized she needed to go back in time and engineer an AI that could go head to head with skynet.

Just a guess, though.


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## NA8 (Apr 7, 2009)

I was thinking Sarah was ripe for a straightjacket and a padded room for her long anticipated meeting with Mrs. Weaver. She'd be perfectly accessorized for the moment Mrs Weaver finally cracked a big metal smile. :devil:


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## m16a (Apr 7, 2009)

js said:


> It's too late, but these last two episodes have been MUCH better than the norm of season 2 fare. I wish they could have written ALL the episodes at this level, with this amount of relevance and suspense. They're finally connecting stuff, finally making you freaking CARE.
> 
> I knew all along that that woman liquid terminator wasn't part of skynet and was doing her own thing. My guess is that she's the liquid metal terminator that was aboard the submarine who said "no" to John Connor's offer to join him, because she realized she needed to go back in time and engineer an AI that could go head to head with skynet.
> 
> Just a guess, though.



That would be a very cool possibility if it were the case. Interesting thinking on your part js!


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## seaside (Apr 8, 2009)

I thought Derrick still has some roles to play though, he died. 
I mean, at least as a male warrior figure, he can give a good fight before he got killed. But he couldn't. It was too quick and too simple. I almost felt like the producers want him out.


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## js (Apr 9, 2009)

I really appreciated the quick death from a hey-it-happens kind of angle. Always being able to count on the plot or theme to tell you when someone might die takes away from the sense of reality. Take too much of that away and you start to fall out of the suspension of disbelief, as it were.


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## fnmag (Apr 11, 2009)

OMG! "John, get on top of me." !!!
"Will you join us?"
The season finale was quite good. 
Great action, questions answered, and questions posed. 
I'm very happy with the last 3 episodes but am angry that they served me pablum for most of the season. Then, like a drug dealer, slipped me the primo stuff at the end to hook me. 
To what end? I do not know if there will be another season. 
If they could continue in the vein of these last offerings, I'd wait in line to buy a ticket. However, another season of the earlier drivel and they can keep it. 
In the scene with Cam and John, if you listen real intently, you can hear the collective sigh of the entire American nation. 
Once you go cyborg, you never go back! 
Summer, here's looking at ya, kid! :devil:


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## Tachikoma (Apr 11, 2009)

Just seen it, are there official news about a third season yet?


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 11, 2009)

No, they don't usually make decisions until May/June, but you always need to be watching the ratings for shows you like. 

If the finale got bad ratings like this, it makes it pretty hard to justify in a tight economy doing another season as this person writes. I think the most you could hope for is a DVD to answer questions...especially if the Terminator Salvation movie generates some new interest. Same problem with Dollhouse. I love Sci-Fi, and I got bored by it after 3rd episode.


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## bhds (Apr 11, 2009)

What. The. Heck. Was John doing rummaging around in Cameron's stomach:duh2:?!?!?!?! I d'idn't understand that a bit.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 11, 2009)

bhds said:


> What. The. Heck. Was John doing rummaging around in Cameron's stomach:duh2:?!?!?!?! I d'idn't understand that a bit.



Who cares why. :devil:

Bill


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## Trashman (Apr 11, 2009)

bhds said:


> What. The. Heck. Was John doing rummaging around in Cameron's stomach:duh2:?!?!?!?! I d'idn't understand that a bit.



He was checking to see if she was leaking radiation. If she was leaking, it would have felt something other than cold to the touch. 


Great finale! Now comes the waiting. :mecry:


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## bhds (Apr 11, 2009)

Trashman said:


> He was checking to see if she was leaking radiation. If she was leaking, it would have felt something other than cold to the touch.



Ahhh. That makes sense now. I guess he didn"t have a geiger counter handy.


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## Trashman (Apr 11, 2009)

bhds said:


> Ahhh. That makes sense now. I guess he didn"t have a geiger counter handy.



That, and they figured a little gratuitous hotness wouldn't hurt!


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## bhds (Apr 11, 2009)

Trashman said:


> That, and they figured a little gratuitous hotness wouldn't hurt!



Yep! Gratuitous hotness involving Summer or Lena is never a bad thing.:naughty:
Had me all fired up, right up until John cut her chest open.:sick2:


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## UncleFester (Apr 12, 2009)

bhds said:


> ......... rummaging around in Cameron...... :duh2:?!?!?!?! I d'idn't understand that a bit.


Mebbe when you get a little older you'd understand.....  
Sorry, too good of a setup to resist.....
WOW the finale was EXCELLENT. It was a strange twist to see "Weaver" and John go "back to the future" and meet Derrick. Ummmm... wow. That episode gets an A+.


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## sygyzy (Apr 12, 2009)

I am almost done watching this. What just happened at the end? Where is Weaver? What time did they jump to? How come Kyle doesn't recognize John? John has a brother? Since when?

Edit: Oh Kyle says "my brother" not "your." I had to replay it 5 times.


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## NA8 (Apr 12, 2009)

Ok, here's my "what ?" 

After the plane crashed into the office, there was a snake of liquid metal that slithered up to Weaver's leg and slipped inside her. Does that mean she had a part of her piloting the plane, or was there a second liquid metal entity, or does Weaver just fall apart in an emergency ? 

Wild finale. Too bad they wasted so much time during the season with the weird girlfriend subplot.


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## SlightlyDim (Apr 12, 2009)

sygyzy said:


> I am almost done watching this. What just happened at the end? Where is Weaver? What time did they jump to? How come Kyle doesn't recognize John? John has a brother? Since when?
> 
> Edit: Oh Kyle says "my brother" not "your." I had to replay it 5 times.



John jumping forwards in time means he would have missed the war - so avoiding his part in the resistance - effectively Weaver succeeded where the other Terminators failed - John was effectively dead and couldn't lead the resistance.

Whether that was a side effect or the intention is guesswork - if we get another series we may get to see if she has a bigger plan.

At that point, Kyle wouldn't know him because they had never met and Derek hadn't gone back to meet him yet (since he dies in the past)

The snake thing was the thing in the water tank that was seen in an earlier episode - the tank is broken by the plane - was part of her all along, maybe a backup incase something happened to her. EDIT: - probably the difference in mass between her original Terminators mass and Catherine Weavers - to stand in maybe she had to be the same weight?


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## NA8 (Apr 12, 2009)

SlightlyDim said:


> The snake thing was the thing in the water tank that was seen in an earlier episode - the tank is broken by the plane - was part of her all along, maybe a backup incase something happened to her.



Curious. I think she called it a species of eel that ate other eels. She didn't like the police guy banging on the tank either. I'll take another look at that crash scene.


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## sygyzy (Apr 12, 2009)

There's nothing controversial about the crash scene. The snake was part of her all along. It's liquid metal and she keeps it in the tank swimming around. She could make it a bunny if she wanted to. When the plane crashed, she couldn't have part of her body hanging around so she absorbed it.


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## UncleFester (Apr 13, 2009)

Awright. I watched it again when I'm not full of :buddies:. After the time jump when John meets his older self, is that girl a (slightly) younger version Cameron or is she Allison from Palmdale? Hmmm. Also, yes that eel was part of the "Weaver" liquid metal gal. So... The Cromartie body now has Cameron's chip? Hmm. And what is Sara going to do in the "past" now? I predict a backwards time jump for John to correct his disappearance when he jumped forward from present time. Another question is how did John Henry/Cromartie/Cameron make a time jump without the signature destruction of things around the bubble? 
Gosh I hope they do a third season.


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## Trashman (Apr 13, 2009)

UncleFester said:


> Awright. I watched it again when I'm not full of :buddies:. After the time jump when John meets his older self, is that girl a (slightly) younger version Cameron or is she Allison from Palmdale? Hmmm. Also, yes that eel was part of the "Weaver" liquid metal gal. So... The Cromartie body now has Cameron's chip? Hmm. And what is Sara going to do in the "past" now? I predict a backwards time jump for John to correct his disappearance when he jumped forward from present time. Another question is how did John Henry/Cromartie/Cameron make a time jump without the signature destruction of things around the bubble?
> Gosh I hope they do a third season.



Was that John meeting his future self, in the future? I thought that was John meeting his dad. Yes, though, that was definitely Cameron in the future, but she didn't look any younger, to me.


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## UncleFester (Apr 13, 2009)

D'oh, it was John's dad. .
I wasn't judging Cameron's/Allison's age by appearance but by logic; the "age" she should be. Cameron in the future was sent back to watchdog John. She's aging the whole time....


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## dc42 (Apr 13, 2009)

Here is y take given 1 watching of the episode.

When the series was created, the producer said they were effectively ignoring Terminator 3, which was rendered moot by the time jump.

They never show John Conner in the future. In fact, it seems that very few people ever get to see John Conner in the future.

That was Allison and not Cameron in the future. They had her petting a dog to show that.

I thought I noticed another time travel lightning in the background near the end, which I think was Weaver going back to the past, if I saw it correctly.

Also, when Kyle was confronting Jesse a few episodes back, he said something that led me to believe that the Jesse in the present was from a different timeline than Kyle.

So, it could be that John Conner became the leader of the resistence by jumping forward in time and not from Judgement Day. Weaver was from a timeline where the crew on the Jimmy Carter didn't open the box. She was sent back in time to create John Henry to bring back to fight Skynet on orders from John. John then fufills to timeline by sending Derek back for T1, Arnold back for T2, and Kyle and Cameron back for the series.

At least you can look at it that way if the series gets canceled.

I hope SciFi picks it up if Fox doesn't want it. While T4 will probably destroy the story arc for TSCC, the series was good and the finale was great.


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## sygyzy (Apr 13, 2009)

I remember there was an episode called "Allison From Palmdale" but I don't remember it at all, or its significance. Can someone tell me what or who Allison is?


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## bhds (Apr 13, 2009)

dc42 said:


> .......
> So, it could be that John Conner became the leader of the resistence by jumping forward in time and not from Judgement Day. Weaver was from a timeline where the crew on the Jimmy Carter didn't open the box. She was sent back in time to create John Henry to bring back to fight Skynet on orders from John. John then fufills to timeline by sending Derek back for T1, Arnold back for T2, and Kyle and Cameron back for the series.



Say what? :huh:


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## Benson (Apr 13, 2009)

UncleFester said:


> Another question is how did John Henry/Cromartie/Cameron make a time jump without the signature destruction of things around the bubble?


AFAIK, there's no destruction on the _originating_ side, the bubble scorches an area on the destination, assuring an empty arrival zone. If the transport equipment were destroyed, then the resistance wouldn't have been able to send through Kyle in T1, the T800 in T2, or the T800 in T3. OTOH, the only occasion I can think of where we _saw_ the originating side was the bank vault, where there _was_ massive destruction, but I think that could be blamed either on interference from the isotopic tommy-gun, or perhaps a built-in self-destruct (as it was meant for emergency use).


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## Trashman (Apr 14, 2009)

I think, I'm a little lost on this Allison thing. So, did Cameron take the form of a future girl named "Allison?" I mean, the girl I saw at the end of the episode was definitely Summer Glau.

Edit: I just searched a bit, and I see that Cameron is in the form of Allison.


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 14, 2009)

Given what they could have accomplished, it was a stupid ending, and an exclamation point example of why they lost their fan base earlier this year.


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## dc42 (Apr 14, 2009)

Trashman said:


> I think, I'm a little lost on this Allison thing. So, did Cameron take the form of a future girl named "Allison?" I mean, the girl I saw at the end of the episode was definitely Summer Glau.
> 
> Edit: I just searched a bit, and I see that Cameron is in the form of Allison.


 
Allison was John Conners girlfriend in the future. She was captured and Cameron was created to infiltrate and kill him. They did an episode on this.


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## Trashman (Apr 14, 2009)

dc42 said:


> Allison was John Conners girlfriend in the future. She was captured and Cameron was created to infiltrate and kill him. They did an episode on this.



I remember the episode, but must not have gotten what I should have out of it. It might have been late, when I was watching it. I'm sure it's on my hard drive, though. Maybe, I'll check it out, again.


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## js (Apr 14, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> Given what they could have accomplished, it was a stupid ending, and an exclamation point example of why they lost their fan base earlier this year.



I disagree. They might have done better, but it was far from being a stupid ending.

On a more general note, I thought the last episode, was quite good. As good as the previous 2 or 3. I just wish the whole season could have been up to that level.

I too hope that Sci Fi picks this up if Fox doesn't (which is highly probably given the low ratings).

In terms of the jump to the future, I don't think that Weaver was doing that to prevent John from taking part in the resistance, but to enable it. Intentional or not, she was probably jumping him past a lot of danger right to the point where he can start to assume the role he is destined to play.


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## UncleFester (Apr 14, 2009)

Another question I forgot to ask. As I understand it, Weaver & Co was using the Cromartie body as a Physical User Interface for John Henry. The intelligence was in the racks of hardware behind him. Even if the Cromartie body took Cameron's chip, *John Henry is still in the present*. Or am I confused again???:thinking: So it was John Henry that was saying "I'm sorry John" repeatedly?


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## oronocova (Apr 14, 2009)

I figured cameron told john henry how to remove her chip and put it in his head and allowed him to do so. That way john henry could then be unplugged (remember cameron was damaged from the jail break, JH was "100%")... but the JH body would have cameron's chip and there for be cameron? I thought it was probably cameron displaying the "I'm sorry" message but I don't have a good reason.

I must admit I am really bummed that they are maybe cancelling this show. I don't keep up with ratings and all that so I did not realize it was doing bad. I do look forward to the new movie though.


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## Flashfirstask?later (Apr 15, 2009)

With the new Terminator Salvation movie coming it would be good if they go for another season.


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## Trashman (Apr 15, 2009)

I figured it was Cameron's chip displaying the "I'm sorry John" message, too. After all, why would John Henry be sorry?


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## js (Apr 15, 2009)

JH and Cameron could have switched places. Him going into the chip, her going into the hardware behind the Cromarite body. And this is perhaps how the time travel hardware/software was enabled and setup so quickly. Cameron has all the knowledge, whereas JH does not. So the "I'm sorry" was Cameron communicating from inside the JH hardware.

If I'm right. It's anybodies guess.


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## UncleFester (Apr 15, 2009)

JS
Brilliant. I NEVER would have thought of that. I'm with the rest of the crowd; let's see another season. I'd like to see if you're right. If this has happened, I wonder what JH will be like and know. What could Cameron do stuck in the rack of hardware? (and what kind of drama could she perform?) We're forced to ask (again) "What is Cameron's real objective?". What is "Weaver's" objective too? Retrospectively, why did Jesse want Riley to keep Cameron away from JC? A lot of questions, damn few answers......


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## Flashfirstask?later (Apr 18, 2009)

We may not know until FOX announces their schedule mid-May on whether this show returns.


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## LuxLuthor (May 18, 2009)

It's dead. I figured it would end with the last episode, and as a series ending, that is why I said it was dumb. It left more story/time lines open and unresolved than a submarine with a screen door. A proper way to end a season that has a high probability of being cancelled is how Heroes closes each season as a completed chapter. Endings like this are "fan abuse."

http://www.airlockalpha.com/news426363.html
http://www.airlockalpha.com/news426362.html


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## UncleFester (May 18, 2009)

That's too bad. I liked the show.


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## IlluminatedOne (May 18, 2009)

That sucks i was hoping they would renew the series.


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## Trashman (May 18, 2009)

Oh my God, that's ridiculous! After that last episode, it suddenly started to get really interesting. I wish they'd at least have the courtesy to wrap things up. Maybe, a full length movie to finish it off? I wish SciFi would pick this one up.


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## n_den (May 18, 2009)

Nooooooooo! the show was unbelievable. everything was going good too. YUP, i always thought long ago why this show isn't on SciFi.


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## Nitroz (May 18, 2009)

Arrggg!! Dollhouse won out over this.  Just when it was getting good!

I was so ill when Invasion was killed off at the end of the season with alot left unaswered. Just like was said above, Fan Abuse!


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## Benson (May 18, 2009)

Nitroz said:


> Arrggg!! Dollhouse won out over this.  Just when it was getting good!


That's exactly what happened. As a Dollhouse fan, I was kind of glad when I heard it made it, but I also knew that meant TSCC would be canceled. (Definitely better than losing _both_, though, which seemed a definite possibility for a while.)

I'm not real sure which way I'd rather things had gone -- TSCC _seriously_ bogged down for a while, but they got good again towards the end. I think I enjoyed Dh more overall, but if TSCC's third season were ran as well as the end of the second, it'd be better than Dh's first season. Then again, Dh got a bit of a rough start, too, so factoring for that... *Why can't I have both!?*

It's a good thing I don't run a network. I'd either go nuts trying to make calls like this, or bankrupt the network by always going the CPF way: keep both!

I'll certainly be happy if SciFi picks it up, but I doubt it'll happen. It's over, and the 57 ends left open from the series finale will just stay that way.


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## js (May 19, 2009)

Dollhouse has way more potential, in my highly biased and subjective opinion. But, I definitely would have prefered to have BOTH shows continued. But TSCC just didn't earn it this season. They really made a poor showing for MOST of the 2nd season. I only continued watching just 'cause I'm a sci fi fan, but for little other reason. I agree that towards the end things were really good, but that's not a good indicator of what they would do with another full season, I don't think.


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## Black Rose (May 19, 2009)

Nitroz said:


> I was so ill when Invasion was killed off at the end of the season with alot left unaswered.


You too, eh? Really annoyed me the way they ended it.

I wonder if they addressed any of it in the DVD box set?


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## jzmtl (May 19, 2009)

So another cliff hanger ending eh? I'm glad I stopped watching when it went downhill, otherwise the ending would bother me to hell.


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## elgarak (May 19, 2009)

The reason that Dollhouse was renewed, and Sarah Connor was not, is that Dollhouse was/is also produced by Fox, while Sarah Connor was produced by Warner. Both did not do well in ratings, meaning that the network (in this case, Fox, which is an affiliated, but separate entity from the Fox production studio) did not make enough money by selling ads (sales on iTunes profit only the studio, streaming on Hulu as well, I think; DVR ratings DO profit the network as well, but less than the broadcast ratings since most people fast forward through the ads, so advertisers naturally try to pay less for them).

Besides all that, the (broadcast) ratings for TTSCC were really abysmal; and Joss Whedon is obviously really good at selling himself and promising to produce the next season of 13 episodes of Dollhouse for a lower budget.


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## 1wrx7 (May 19, 2009)

Family Guy was cancelled years ago. After amazing DVD sales the series was brought back. 

I love the Terminator franchise, and last week I bought the first season of TSCC on Blu-Ray. Yes the first half of the second season was tepid to say the least, but damnit I want to know what happened at the end. I also want to know what happens in the future Every fan of the show should buy the first season... maybe we'll get to see more of Lena and Summer.... or maybe Si-Fi will give us what we want:candle:


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## LuxLuthor (May 19, 2009)

1wrx7 said:


> Family Guy was cancelled years ago. After amazing DVD sales the series was brought back.
> 
> I love the Terminator franchise, and last week I bought the first season of TSCC on Blu-Ray. Yes the first half of the second season was tepid to say the least, but damnit I want to know what happened at the end. I also want to know what happens in the future Every fan of the show should buy the first season... maybe we'll get to see more of Lena and Summer.... or maybe Si-Fi will give us what we want:candle:



Things like Family Guy, or my favorite fan generated reversal, Jericho are damn few and far between. I loved buying those bags of nuts and seeing tons of them being delivered to the CBS loading docks. I would not recommend buying DVD's of this TSCC series hoping that it will translate into a reversal. There needs to be a huge fan-generated widespread movement to even get the studio/network's attention. 

As elgarak rightly points out, the ownership/production by Warner, and abysmal ratings make it a lost cause. A show like Family Guy has more attractive DVD sales because like most comedies, they are pretty much each complete and enjoyable episodes. You can watch the first or last season episodes of Seinfeld and not have to know what was going on throughout the series.

TSCC was a very complex show because of the multiple characters coming and going, superfluous plot lines that looked like they may have been important, and frequent time jumping which began to seem as ordinary as getting on an elevator. 

It was hard enough to remember what was going on between a run of episodes....God forbid if you missed an episode or three. If there is a closing off sequel, it will have to be a low budget production. Star Trek & Stargate have had some of these sequel DVD's, but they were the most successful Sci-Fi franchises to date.


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## 1wrx7 (May 19, 2009)

I completely agree with you Luxlovecpf

I just hope we somehow get a resolution to a lot of unanswered questions

Going back and watching the first season again let me notice more about the story since I already knew what was to come.

I guess all we can do is hope... it doesn't look good though


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 10, 2009)

Interesting departure "struggles" posted in his own Blog from SCC creator, Josh Friedman.


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