# Surefire KL1-R owners check in here...



## grnamin (Jun 16, 2006)

If you own (future owners welcome  ) a Surefire KL1-R(eflectorized), please check in here. Share your experiences, thoughts, mod techniques, etc., if you please.

Here's what I have... I've modded 2 so far. The one thing I had difficulty with, besides opening up the bezel , was ensuring that the new assembly with reflector and UCL lens was relatively waterproof (using the blow test). I've found that the following configuration works best for me (parts arranged starting from bezel tip):
1) original plastic(?) washer/gasket
2) original domed lens (I don't mind there being a small gap between bezel sections so long as the unit is waterproof)
3) McR20 reflector
4) LED on top of holder/heatsink.

The LED pushes on the reflector. The latter pushes on the domed lens which pushes on the washer/gasket to seal the assembly. 

I compared the beams of one KL1 equipped with reflector and domed lens and another that had the UCL lens. I didn't perceive any difference between them. 

When you try this mod, be careful not to snap off the driver board wiring. A couple of us have done that already. 

Save the visegrips or other pliers as a last resort, not the first choice. I've used 4mm thick cowhide leather to protect the finish and the visegrips still bit through. Ugh!

Heat the bezel using boiling water, a micro torch, or a heat gun and then use strap wrenches or rubber inner tubing strips to grip and twist the bezel sections loose. Some members used collets and a lathe with excellent results.

Modding is fun! It can also be frustrating. If at first you don't succeed, get another KL1.


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## jsr (Jun 16, 2006)

I really like this idea. I like a beam with a nice hotspot for throw while still providing spill light for close to medium range navigation so I can see what's around me. I always felt SF was missing that since LuxVs just don't have that beam unless you use a monster reflector and their LuxIII lights were always optics. Because of this, I decided to make my own setup using a SL Scorpion LED head and a VG FB1 body (haven't received the body yet). SF-like, has great throw (very tight spot), and great spillbeam.

I've seen this mod done on both the E1e and E1L heads. Is it better to use one vs. the other as a base?
Please post some pics!

I'd love to see Doug at FLR test a KL1-R or E1e-LED to check what the total output is. I think the TIR optics creates more lost light than a reflector and good lens.


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## grnamin (Jun 16, 2006)

Here are some beamshot videos:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=120984

I flip-flop between an Aleph 2x123 with primary cells or a Vital Gear FB1 with 1xR123 (see pic in sig).

I'll post more beamshot videos tonight.


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## SRacer2000 (Jun 16, 2006)

I love mine. I traded my L2 for one then remoded it. Mine has the stock gasket form an EXe Head, UCL Lens, McR20, then (and I feel this it the trick) 2 o-rings, 3/4idx1/16w right on the reflector, 15/16odx1/8w (I think) between the inside of body and the other o-ring. This way the middle body holds the o-ring, the o-ring holds the reflector against the lens when you put the head together. Nothing sitting on the Luxeon that way! Just right above it!

Here's some good pics and info: http://flashlight-forums.com/index.php?topic=1791.0


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## KDOG3 (Jun 16, 2006)

Sigh. Yes, I'm the one who pulled the wire off the driver board. I am so bummed. I'll see if I can re-solder it but I'm thinking I should just get a new head and chalk this one up as a learned experience.

I noticed that aluminum sleeve that goes in there keeps things nice and tight as well....


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## KDOG3 (Jun 16, 2006)

As I posted in the other thread, I was messing with it and the positive wire broke off the board too.

BUT. Since I decided I was going to experiment with it so I hooked it up direct drive - just the positive to the batttery tip and the negative to the body of the light. IT WORKS!!! I tried it with one cell and two cells. Can it be run this way?


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## KDOG3 (Jun 16, 2006)

Dang. Wont work off 2 cells. Its' very bright, but gets really hot, really quick, and its too dim off 1 cell. Dangit. Back to square one.


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## mccavazos (Jun 16, 2006)

KDOG3 said:


> Dang. Wont work off 2 cells. Its' very bright, but gets really hot, really quick, and its too dim off 1 cell. Dangit. Back to square one.



Maybe try one R123? People have been doing DD Q-III's like this for some time. Anyway, good luck!

Chris


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## The-David (Jun 16, 2006)

I have been looking for a KL1 for some time. I cant wate to do this mod after I finley get one... By the way I have a post going it WTT section looking for a KL1 hed.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 16, 2006)

I always liked my KL1 with TIR and thought it would be even better if the current was upped. I sent it off to CM and he brought the bias up, and now I even like it better. I have thought about experimenting with a McR20, though I do like all of the lumens in that nice square.

Bill


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## SRacer2000 (Jun 16, 2006)

That's funny because I traded a 4th gen for a 1st gen cuz I hated that dang square! To each there own!


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## Longbow (Jun 17, 2006)

I too like the square, and I like the throw and brightness the optic provides while using little power (long battery life).


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## KDOG3 (Jun 17, 2006)

*grnamin:* Where do you put the o-ring that comes with the UCL? I can't remember how this thing goes back together?


Also there is a "flat" o-ring that was in there that I don't know where it came from...


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## asdalton (Jun 17, 2006)

I just did this mod a couple of days ago using a 20 mm IMS reflector. The throw is as good as the original, but with a much more useful beam. I now have a McR-20 reflector on the way.

I got the bezel open using 2 Channellock pliers, with the rubber straps from a strap wrench protecting the finish.


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## nakahoshi (Jun 17, 2006)

I love mine! I also keep a spare un-modded KL1 for other tasks. I used my KL1-R yesterday changing out an electrical panel during a service change, and it gave nice light, decent flood and the run time is what makes this thing so great. The KL4 heads are nice but they get SOO hot, so you get about 70% of the output of the KL4 and the runtime of the KL1. Its a fantastic mod, and i almost sold mine, untill i relized how fantastic it is. I wont ever try to do that again because its fantastic. Anyway, i really suggest this mod, dont get rid of the KL1 because you dont like the beam (which has its own uses), MOD IT! Beam shots for those who dont want to see the video:









SUREFIRE: MAKE THIS !!


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## CM (Jun 17, 2006)

I have to admit I'm torn between the reflector and TIR. I've gone back and forth so many times now I think I can do this in the dark. The TIR doesn't seem as "bright" (it puts almost all the photons in a narrow beam) but I can pick stuff out with it farther than using smooth reflector. It's almost like getting the throw of a 2D MAG LED light in an E2e package. However, there are times when I need sidespill. Sigh.... Well I've been on the TIR optic the last week and I think I'll leave it there. I have other reflectorized (is that a word :shrug lights and I'll use those for sidespill. No need to duplicate *yet* another light that I have.


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## CM (Jun 17, 2006)

nakahoshi said:


> I love mine! I also keep a spare un-modded KL1 for other tasks. I used my KL1-R yesterday changing out an electrical panel during a service change, and it gave nice light, decent flood and the run time is what makes this thing so great. The KL4 heads are nice but they get SOO hot, so you get about 70% of the output of the KL4 and the runtime of the KL1. Its a fantastic mod, and i almost sold mine, untill i relized how fantastic it is. I wont ever try to do that again because its fantastic. Anyway, i really suggest this mod, dont get rid of the KL1 because you dont like the beam (which has its own uses), MOD IT! Beam shots for those who dont want to see the video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



bobby, glad you decided to keep it


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## SRacer2000 (Jun 17, 2006)

SureFire should really come out with one, even if just for looks!


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## GarageBoy (Jun 17, 2006)

Whoa, wait, I thought you couldn't do this with the new KL1..
Is chop doing this?


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## SRacer2000 (Jun 17, 2006)

I think I've seen Chop do one before.


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## grnamin (Jun 17, 2006)

KDOG3 said:


> *grnamin:* Where do you put the o-ring that comes with the UCL? I can't remember how this thing goes back together?
> 
> 
> Also there is a "flat" o-ring that was in there that I don't know where it came from...


 
KDOG3, I've since then foregone using the UCL lens. Here's my current setup sequence starting from the tip of the bezel:
1 - stiff plastic(?) washer
2 - domed lens
3 - reflector
4 - LED
The LED pushes the reflector and that in turn pushes on the washer to seal the unit. I tried using the round Longbow O-ring by positioning it at position #1, but it would roll off easily. The flat rubber O-ring that comes with the KL1 catches easily on the reflector's rim and it bunches up.  I tested the above setup using the blow test in water and it's watertight. :thumbsup: I compared the domed lens setup with the UCL one and I didn't notice any beam spread difference.

Very nice pictures there!


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## grnamin (Jun 17, 2006)

KDOG3, here's a picture of the original parts sequence:






I forgot to include the optic. It would have been 3rd from left between the plastic spacer and the flat O-ring.


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## tvodrd (Jun 18, 2006)

SF's domed window appears to me to have _optical_ properties- ie diverge/converge affect on the beam. I've done a couple KL1 McR 20 conversions with flat windows from the E1/2e heads and personally prefer the resultant beam over SF's optic. Having a lathe with a 5C collet closer and a couple collet blocks takes a bunch of the sport out of disassembly. (Not to mention the propane torch!  )

Larry


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## Beamhead (Jun 19, 2006)

Reporting in :wave: ,

After reading this thread and studying the pics and links I mustered up the cahones to give it a shot. 

After the 5 minute boil, the base spun right off, but the heat-sink was another story.:green:

But after repeated cooking with a mini torch and a twist of snap ring pliers in the inlets for the PCB posts bingo.:sweat:

Now I have the KL1-R and love it!:rock:


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## IsaacHayes (Jun 19, 2006)

I would suggest not using the luxeon to push on the reflector and hold the glass in. The LED does not like this, and if something were to hit the lens then the led might crush or get a bubble under the dome.

With the flat UCL lens how are you guys water proofing it/assembling them?


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## Beamhead (Jun 19, 2006)

In mine I used everything stock except the thin rubber washer that goes between the thick plastic spacer and the domed lens/window. I used the o-ring for the lens/window of an Aleph A2 head.

I may be wrong but on mine the thick plastic spacer pushes the lens/window in place from contacting the edge of the heat sink. There is obvious pressure on the reflector/led interface also but how much I don't know.


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## SRacer2000 (Jun 19, 2006)

I've put mine under water for about 10 minutes, no leaks. Useing what I stated before.


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## grnamin (Jun 19, 2006)

IsaacHayes said:


> I would suggest not using the luxeon to push on the reflector and hold the glass in. The LED does not like this, and if something were to hit the lens then the led might crush or get a bubble under the dome.
> 
> With the flat UCL lens how are you guys water proofing it/assembling them?


 
It's not actually the LED home itself that pushes on the reflector, but the base of the LED. I don't know what the nomeclature for that part is. 



Beamhead said:


> Reporting in :wave: ,
> 
> After reading this thread and studying the pics and links I mustered up the cahones to give it a shot.
> 
> ...


 
Awesome!


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## IsaacHayes (Jun 19, 2006)

It's the case/body. Pressure there will result in bubbles forming under the dome. It can be pushed down over the slug, and thus ripping the bond wires and also seperating from the dome, which will introduce air gaps. Luxeons are fragile little buggers.


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## roguesw (Jun 19, 2006)

grnamin,
do you mean the black plastic housing of the LED, if you are using this to push against the window, i suggest caution
as this black plastic part cannot handle any load, its actually not bonded to the LED, but clipped in place
when i remove LEDs for replacement, small pressure from tweezers can dislodge the plastic part
I wonder if its possible to fit a plastic washer to support the reflector, that way
any load is transfered to the washer rather than the LED itself
and on a side note, thats a sexy mod!!!


edit:isaac beat me to it, and i also forgot about the wires


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## grnamin (Jun 19, 2006)

roguesw said:


> grnamin,
> do you mean the black plastic housing of the LED, if you are using this to push against the window, i suggest caution
> as this black plastic part cannot handle any load, its actually not bonded to the LED, but clipped in place
> when i remove LEDs for replacement, small pressure from tweezers can dislodge the plastic part
> ...


 
Roquesw, you're right. I've pried many a Luxeon from the slug when lifting on that plastic base. I'll check out exactly where the reflector sits just to be sure. Will report right back.


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## KDOG3 (Jun 19, 2006)

I guess I'll have to remember the sequence when I get another one.....

Do you put the lens in first, then the flat o-ring, then the the plastic "sleeve, reflector, LED assembly?


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## rinali (Jun 19, 2006)

Has anybody tried this with a Fraen LP? Would the beam fall somewhere between the TIROS and a reflector?

Do the circuits of a gen 4 and gen 1 differ or is the gen 4 just set to a higher current?


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## IsaacHayes (Jun 19, 2006)

The thin flat plastic ring goes in front of the lens. I think it doesn't make a seal (might) as it's brittle and hard, but I think it isolates the glass from the hard metal bezel. If you are using flat UCL glass or otherwise, then a rubber o-ring in front is probably best, but I cant recall how the bezel is shaped.

The fraen LP probably is just a weaker version of the TIR. Maybe has a wider beam, but same squarish intense hotspot without corona. The 4th gen is higher current, and I'm unsure if the gen3 is higher too or not..


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## GarageBoy (Jun 19, 2006)

How much lux loss at the middle occurs?


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## tvodrd (Jun 19, 2006)

I have loaded many of Don's reflectors against the Luxeon's "black plastic" in order to compress a window gasket for the last year and a half, and have yet to have an LED failure. :shrug: I suspect some excess thermal epoxy may have been squeezed out to possibly support the "black plastic" in compression. It should be a lot harder to fail the "black plastic" of Lumaled's latest offerings as they have incorporated locking details for the overmolded slug. 

Larry


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## roguesw (Jun 19, 2006)

the fraen has a bad beam in my opinion, the TIROS is light years ahead in terms of photon management
however, i do have an old frean installed, it projects the same square light but only for short distances, great for close up work and general lighting
doesnt have a lot of spill

tvodrd
the black case does indeed have a locking mechanism, however
i just thought of a case where it might fail
during the assembly, if the reflector was resting on the black 
plastic part and when screwing down the bezel, the reflector was to turn
and grip the black plastic part, it could provide enough torque force on it
to twist it and possibly break the bond wires?
i noticed this in my Pr-T and Pr heads, when you tighten the bezel, the oring will move with the window and turn the reflector as you tighten,
in the Pr design, the reflector rest on a lip so its not in direct contact with the LED itself
but if no one is opening and closing the bezel all the time, then youre right, it wouldnt fail


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## grnamin (Jun 19, 2006)

KDOG3 said:


> I guess I'll have to remember the sequence when I get another one.....
> 
> 
> 
> Do you put the lens in first, then the flat o-ring, then the the plastic "sleeve, reflector, LED assembly?



KDOG3, here's the sequence I currently use:

1) flat plastic washer
2) domed lens
3) reflector
4) plastic sleeve (please see below for this)

I think I may have a solution to keep the reflector from resting on the LED, although Larry confirms that the load won't hurt the LED  :

1) Cut about 0.25" from the plastic washer:





2) Insert the spacer into the LED holder/heatsink:





3) Insert the reflector into the washer:





The washer keeps the LED from resting on the plastic body of the LED and it's what pushes on the reflector which, in turn, pushes on the lens and plastic washer to seal the unit.


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## roguesw (Jun 19, 2006)

grnamin
thats the exact same thing i was thinking of and its the same design used in Don's Pr heads, 
nice work 
good way to recycle parts
and really really awesome for 3 am in the morning!! 
good job mate


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## grnamin (Jun 19, 2006)

Thank you, Roguesw. Great minds think alike.  It's only 2321 hrs on Monday night here, though.


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## city cop (Jun 20, 2006)

I can't take it anymore ! Thats it ! I'm modding my new L1 ! I got doe so who's doing for me. :laughing:


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## tvodrd (Jun 20, 2006)

Don, forgive me if I am clueless, but aren't your reflectors set-up for the nominal beam with the reflector bearing against the LED? That's the way I have found it, but your preferences may vary! With NX-05 optics, I find spacing them out ~.075" from contact yielded the best overall beam. The McRs seem to me to be better when against the "black plastic." YMMV!

Larry


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## roguesw (Jun 20, 2006)

Hi larry, i just opened up my Pr again, 
you are right, the McR is sitting at the same level as the black casing
however, the McR can spin freely and doesnt place any load on it
i tried compressing the McR simulating when its compressed with the bezel on, and it can still spin
quoting larry, YMMV


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## IsaacHayes (Jun 20, 2006)

I think the McR tolerances are very tight. It should rest on the blackplastic of the luxeon, but not place any load on it. Light just skim the surface.

Excess thermal epoxy would help support the black plastic case too, and should help quite a bit I would think.


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## asdalton (Jun 20, 2006)

tvodrd said:


> Don, forgive me if I am clueless, but aren't your reflectors set-up for the nominal beam with the reflector bearing against the LED? That's the way I have found it, but your preferences may vary! With NX-05 optics, I find spacing them out ~.075" from contact yielded the best overall beam. The McRs seem to me to be better when against the "black plastic." YMMV!



The McR is designed to be _touching_ the plastic collar around the LED, but what you don't want to do is to have this point of contact be the main source of tension holding the reflector and lens in place.

In the stock KL1, the outer glass lens is held in place by the wide plastic ring, which is sandwiched between the lens and the collar of the optic, which in turn sits on the metal rim _above_ the LED. When you convert to a reflector, the optic is no longer there. That space has to be filled in so that you can get a nice, tight fit just before the McR reflector begins to touch the rim of the LED. I've been experimenting with o-rings, and the right size seems to be 13/16" ID x 1/16" thick. More than one may be needed.

Right now, I'm also discovering the tvodrd is right--the stock domed lens has a noticeable diverging/weakening effect on the beam. I'll be getting a flat mineral glass or UCL replacement. It looks like the diameter for a Mini-Mag is just right.


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## nakahoshi (Jun 20, 2006)

asdalton said:


> It looks like the diameter for a Mini-Mag is just right.



Go with the 22.8 mm size lens (Arc4 & LongBow (o-ring included), HDS EDC), the mini mag is 22.6 mm and i think thats justttt to small. you wont have to sand it or anything, it fits great!


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## KDOG3 (Jun 20, 2006)

Wait doesn't something have to go between the lens and the inside of the head? It isn't glass-on-metal is it?


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## grnamin (Jun 20, 2006)

My current setup is glass to metal.  The only reason why I'm using the original domed lens currently is because I can't seem to get the setup with the UCL lens to be watertight. I'll need either a thicker lens (ala KL4) or a thicker flat O-ring for the reflector to sit against as it pushes on the lens. Any ideas where one can get a thicker flat lens or a thicker flat O-ring?


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## IsaacHayes (Jun 20, 2006)

KDOG3: there is a tiny flat plastic washer type deal that goes in front of the stock lens. Stock that is. See post #22, 2nd to last peice.


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## grnamin (Jun 20, 2006)

Oops! What I meant to say was that the reflector (metal) contacts the lens (glass) directly (for now), not that the lens is in contact with the bezel itself directly. IsaacHayes is right that the flat plastic washer is located between the bezel and the lens.


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## greenLED (Jun 20, 2006)

any ideas how this would work in a new-style L1?


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## KDOG3 (Jun 20, 2006)

I'm confused. No flat plastic washer came out of mine when I dissassembled it. I'll just have to pay attention when I take the next one apart.


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## grnamin (Jun 20, 2006)

It might still be stuck in place. It's very thin and easy to miss.


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## rangemaster (Jun 21, 2006)

I have a KL1 (latest version) on the way, so who do I send it to to get the R-MOD (reflector mod) done? I don't have the means to get it apart (without destroying it, that is) so I'm will to pay someone to do it. Love the Mc20 reflector, so it's got to have that. Otherwise, I'm open to suggestions. 

Wealth of knowledge here, Thanks much.


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## asdalton (Jun 25, 2006)

I think that I have found a robust, reproducible way to do this mod. I have two KL1s, and I chose to mod the one that had a nicer tint but poorer beam quality.

Parts needed:
- stock KL1
- McR 20 mm reflector (from the Sandwich Shoppe)
- 22.8 mm UCL (from flashlightlens.com)
- two o-rings 13/16" I.D. (15/16" O.D.) x 1/16" thick

Order of parts in stock KL1:
1. Bezel
2. Thin plastic ring (easy to miss)
3. Domed lens
4. Rubber washer
5. Black plastic spacer ring
6. Optic
7. Base (LED and driver)

Parts you will need to use from the stock KL1:
- Bezel
- Thin plastic ring
- Black plastic spacer ring
- Base

Order to assemble the mod:
1. Bezel
2. Thin plastic ring
3. 22.8 mm UCL
4. McR 20 mm reflector
5. 2 o-rings around the reflector (This is tricky, but they need to be stacked on top of each other, with the first one resting on the lens. It may be easier to put the o-rings around the reflector before inserting the reflector into the bezel.)
6. Black plastic spacer ring
7. Base

I used only one o-ring the first time I tried this mod, and the bezel was able to screw down all the way without any resistance from the reflector pushing onto the LED. This is good news, because it means that the McR + UCL height is just right. However, there was a little bit of rattle from the plastic spacer, which means that the reflector wasn't being held very strongly in place. For this reason, I added a second o-ring. There _was_ resistance this time, but it was due to the two o-rings being compressed. I used a pair of strap wrenches to tighten the bezel all the way.

The beam quality is indistinguishable from that of my McLux III PD, except that the KL1 has a little less output.


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## The-David (Jul 10, 2006)

Parts all arived today, I am going to play with the KL1 as is for a few days then its off to be modded.


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## jeepinpaul (Jul 14, 2006)

I performed the McR-20 mod and retained the original outer lens. It is now a fantastic KL-1 head. I will mod my other KL-1 this weekend. I am so happy with the modified head that I believe I will sell my Surfire L4 flashlight !!!


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## grnamin (Jul 14, 2006)

:thumbsup: Jeepinpaul :thumbsup:


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## ROK (Jul 14, 2006)

It was really hard to open the heatsink. But I completed my KL1-R with McR20 and stock lens. I can replace the LE and circuit board anytime. Now I would like to drive it harder about 700mA. Who will instruct me to replace the sense resister?


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## jeepinpaul (Jul 14, 2006)

You are not kidding about getting it open. I boiled it, put it in the lathe with a custom cut collet and had problems spinning it apart. I had to put so much wrench pressure on the LED section of the head that it got scored by the rubber-protected teeth of the wrench. Oh well, the surface marks are worth the improved reflector beam output. It does not bother me since I use my flashlights every day.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 14, 2006)

ROK, send CM a PM.

Bill


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## IsaacHayes (Jul 14, 2006)

I used a blow-torch to heat it, then used needle nose pliars and my hands (ouch hot!) to twist the bezel from the led heatsink apart.


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## mccavazos (Jul 16, 2006)

asdalton said:


> Order to assemble the mod:
> 1. Bezel
> 2. Thin plastic ring
> 3. 22.8 mm UCL
> ...



I'm a litle confused as to what you mean by one o-ring on top of the other, and where to place them on the reflector. Is it possible that you could post a pic?


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## roguesw (Jul 18, 2006)

hi guys
just wanted to ask, since everyone is converting their KL1s to reflectors
anyone has a few spare TIR on hand? i would be willing to pay a few dollars for them, i want to try to put a TIR on my Lux V
please make me an offer on them 
cheers
best regards
Des


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## grnamin (Jul 18, 2006)

Des, check your PM.


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## jeepinpaul (Jul 18, 2006)

mccavazos said:


> I'm a litle confused as to what you mean by one o-ring on top of the other, and where to place them on the reflector. Is it possible that you could post a pic?



You want to place the o-rings on the outer flange of the reflector. I actually placed the reflector in the bezel (facing down) and used a small screwdriver to seat the firsr o-ring down into sides. Then you will stack a second o-ring down on top of the first o-ring. Finally place the plastic spacer on top of the o-rings and screw the LED module to complete the assembly. When you do the mod, it will make sense as the parts all stack on top of each other.

I converted a second KL1 head but this time I used a UCL Lens instead of the original domed lens. The 2 different lenses give the same beam results. You save a few bucks by using the original SureFire domed lens! The domed lens is also thicker so it should resist damage better than a thinner ULC Lens.


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## The-David (Jul 21, 2006)

Recved my KL1-R today and its probley going to be my favoret light. Had to send it off to Grnamin to be modded as I was not brave enouf to do it myself. He did a grate job. Now my KL1 has a varey nice useable beem.


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## Luna (Jul 21, 2006)

roguesw said:


> hi guys
> just wanted to ask, since everyone is converting their KL1s to reflectors
> anyone has a few spare TIR on hand? i would be willing to pay a few dollars for them, i want to try to put a TIR on my Lux V
> please make me an offer on them
> ...


 

me 2


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## InfidelCastro (Sep 20, 2006)

SRacer2000 said:


> SureFire should really come out with one, even if just for looks!





That looks like a KL4 reflector. I don't understand where the throw comes from. Is it just because it's a LuxIII (smaller die)?


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## KDOG3 (Sep 20, 2006)

*grnamin:* What do you charge for the conversion? Do you keep the stock lens or put a UCL in there? And can you do the resistor solder thing to bump the output up? I'd be very interested if you could do this. I'm considering getting a black KL1 head and black E1e to put it on....


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## grnamin (Sep 20, 2006)

KDOG3, no charge for the conversion. It's your choice whether you'd want the stock lens or UCL. Just supply the parts and return shipping.  CM would be your man for bumping up the current. You may want to PM him. PM CM.  You really got the bug now, don't ya?


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## KDOG3 (Sep 20, 2006)

Ok I will....


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## cqbdude (Sep 20, 2006)

I had these 2 gentleman do their thing on a couple of my KL1 heads and I couldnt be happier...
grnamin is the man when it comes to doing the mods on these heads...and CM does incredible job on waking up the circuit on these KL1's..


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## mikeymoto (Sep 25, 2006)

Thought I'd post my experience with the conversion, though I don't have much new to add that others haven't already mentioned. I have a current-generation KL1 head and I wanted to put in a UW0J and a McR-20 reflector with a flat window. I started with the head:






It is shiny and flawless-like, with perfect anodizing and no scratches. There is some dust around here though. I thought I was going to be all cool and twist that head right open with my manly strap wrenches, and the power of Henry Weinhards for turbo twisting:






Well, that didn't work so well. Boy is that sucker glued tight! So against my better judgement I pulled out the coveted (but feared) vise grips:






I used the smaller strap wrench on the anode end of the head, and wrapped the window end with the larger strap wrench's rubber and then applied the vise grips over the rubber. A little twist of the wrist (and a swallow of brew) later it was broken free:






Slight problem though -- the domed window cracked from the force of the vise grips. Yes, they are a feared tool for a reason. Fortunately I was planning to replace the window with a flat one, whew! So, here we are with the head split open:






I carefully removed all the parts except the super thin flat gasket that seals the window against the front of the bezel. Here are the remaining few pieces:






And here's another look right into the head where the emitter rests:






After I got things in order and cleaned all the black rubbery goo from the threads, I got my soldering station together and collected the implements allotted for this project. Here we are, ready for emitter desoldering and installation of the new one:






It was smooth sailing from here on out, except the point where Mr. Weinhard suggested I grip my soldering iron by the wrong end. That part hurt. Fortunately I was already done with the detail work, just had to clean up and go take care of myself.

I used Arctic Alumina under the replacement emitter, and I put in a McR-20 and a McLuxIII-PD window. I first tried a UCL lens but it was too thin. The PD window is perfect! I turned the bezel upside down, dropped in the window. I took 2 qty. #32 o-rings and put them around the bezel end of the reflector and dropped the reflector down into the bezel, on top of the window. It was tight, thanks to the o-rings, so I used some hi tech implements to tuck the o-rings into place around the reflector. What a perfect fit. Then I took the OEM plastic ring and dropped it in behind the reflector/o-rings. I took the bezel with all those pieces inside, lubed the threads, and put it back onto the emitter end of the head. Voila!






Doh, still have some dust and crud on the bezel in that photo above, but I'm happy to report that she's as smooth and untarnished as before the beginning of this project. The light shines like a dream. I put it on a Vital Gear FB1 and am exceedingly happy with the size. What's more, and completely unrelated to this thread, I was *really* surprised to see the KL4/FB1 combo is shorter than the KL1/FB1 due to the shorter head of the KL4. Sweet!






Sorry for the poor quality on that last one, and this next one. Didn't want to pull out the other camera or anything. Lastly I find the comparison between the texture of the OEM KL4 reflector and the McR-20 to be an interesting one:


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## grnamin (Sep 26, 2006)

Thank you very much for the endorsement, Raul, and thank you very much, Mikeymoto, for documenting with pictures what you did. They will prove invaluable. :thumbsup:


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## KDOG3 (Sep 26, 2006)

Thats' awesome Mikey! If I hadn't blown all my cash on a new U2 I would be trying this. What I really need is one of those soldering stations with the magnifier. I bet that helps tremendously. How hard was it to get the old emitter out?


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## mikeymoto (Sep 26, 2006)

It was very easy getting the old emitter out. After desoldering the connections I used a dental-like tool to pick it out by levering from underneath an edge. Mine had some sort of epoxy holding it to the head, but it came out in one piece and the rest of the epoxy in the head got scraped out.

In terms of identifying the polarity, inside the head I could see the very end of the insulation on the wires, one red and one black. I went ahead and assumed that red was + and went with that. Apparently I was right. It's a little confusing to me at times because where I live home electricians identify the hot wire with BLACK, whereas automotive electrical wiring generally indicates RED as positive.


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## Brizzler (Sep 26, 2006)

This looks like a perfect LED conversion for my E2E - decent throw, superb beam (unlike stock optic beam), good runtime. Very interested.

I would not trust myself to carry out the mod and do not own a stock KL1 and am also located in the UK. Therefore IF & WHEN I decide to go for one of these am I better off looking out for a completed KL1-R on the mod B/S/T forum or might I be able to persuade someone here to not only carry out the mod but also buy the necessary parts first and then ship to the UK at the end in return for an agreed dose of (CC) PayPal??


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## Brizzler (Sep 29, 2006)

grnamin - check your PM.


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## RA40 (Oct 20, 2006)

Looking at the Shoppe, they now list the McR 20 "Joker" reflector. Have any of you used this new one and how is the beam pattern?

I have one on the way since it was the only option.


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## grnamin (Oct 20, 2006)

Mike, the joker reflector is supposed to work with the joker LEDS only. i don't know how it will affect the beam pattern of non-joker LEDs, though.


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## RA40 (Oct 20, 2006)

We'll find out...

What emitter specs am I looking for if doing a conversion...maybe installing the lower profile Joker LED will yeild a good match with this reflector then. 

(More than I wanted to handle but since it is apart...I'll have a go.)


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## Brizzler (Oct 27, 2006)

Received my KL1-R yesterday: KL1 from oldgrandpajack and McR20 from litemania combined by Grnamin's modding skill then posted to me in UK .

Verdict: very happy!!! KL1-R's beam is very nice and usable. Mod turns my E2E into the backup light I always wanted it to be. While I may still use the MN03 LA from time to time, I'm not convinced I'll ever use the MN02 again - KL1-R is brighter & whiter overall, throws further, is regulated, has no bulb to blow... 

Thanks to the CPF for drawing my attention to this possibility and thanks to the guys involved for making it possible!! 

:goodjob: :thanks:


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## grnamin (Oct 27, 2006)

Thank you, Nick. I must admit, though, that I don't any skill, I just employ brute force to opening the bezels.


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## KDOG3 (Oct 31, 2006)

Ok got another question regarding this mod. How does the flat rubber o-ring go in the original config?


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## audioman (Nov 3, 2006)

Thank you Grnamin 
received the KL1-R today ,the KL1-R beam is very nice and usable


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## grnamin (Nov 3, 2006)

You're welcome, Cheong.



KDOG3 said:


> Ok got another question regarding this mod. How does the flat rubber o-ring go in the original config?


 
I usually don't include the flat rubber o-ring because it tends to bunch up when the reflector comes in contact with it as you tighten the two bezel sections together.


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## RA40 (Nov 11, 2006)

Update: Looks like when I boiled part of the head to soften the glue, I killed it. When re-assembled and clicking the switch.  Oh-well... 

Since the bottom portion came off first, I cut the leads to the emitter so that I wouldn't risk damaging the PCB when loosening the bezel side. My soldering skills are long gone and I'm having a difficult time re-attaching the leads back to the PCB. (Hand shakes) On these tiny parts, it's challenging. But now I may try some other combos from the Shoppe.

The strap wrench worked well and to loosen the top, I used the snap ring pliers to hold the little PCB locator tabs for the bezel portion while turning the bezel. 

This was a good learning experience so next time, I'll know what to do. Just  
Now to get another KL1 head and have at it.


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## grnamin (Nov 12, 2006)

Mike, if it's any consolation, I did that 3 times on my KL1s before I finally learned my lesson. 

If anyone wants to do a KL1-R mod, here's a parts list:
(Moderators, I hope the links are OK. They all seem to be from contributing members here)

1) KL1 head: unless a member has one for sale here, a good source is www.tacticalsupply.com. They have a member discount. You can PM Steven (tacticalsupply.com) to request the member discount.

2) UCL lens (optional): Flashlightlens.com: 22.8mm UCL... http://flashlightlens.com/products/

3) replacement Luxeon III LED (optional): Fred (Photonfanatic) sells them here in CPF: 
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=85330
The UX0J star or UWOK emitter are good ones. 

4) McR-20 reflector: available from The Sandwich Shoppe: http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?products_id=464


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## RA40 (Nov 12, 2006)

Greg-Thanks for the parts link...have been looking for emitters. 

In some ways, this is a good learning experience...just takes some $$. Things in mind are the various converter boards the Shoppe has and some nice emitters. Ordered a black KL1 head from Optic HQ. This time, the head will go in the big convection oven to heat it to 160 or 180F.

Until I get the leads re-attached, my suspicion is that the heat absorbed through the head got the emitter. It wasn't in there long, just right when it boiled I removed it. <shrug> Simple continuity testing gave me tone on the PCB...dunno.


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## RA40 (Nov 16, 2006)

The new KL1 arrived, no sooner then checking to verify it worked, I was back to trying to disassemble it. The bottom came off easily, there was just a dot of adhesive on the threads. 

The top was another story. Finally got it off and not a bare thread could be seen...it was covered with the black adhesive. After filing the threads clean from the gouges left by the adjustable pliers, put the parts in and screwed it back together. Much thanks to all those before me who've worked out the finer details. 

I have the Joker reflector in mine and it works well. I wasn't able to discern a major difference between it and the non version. I did sand down the emitter end of the reflector due to some burrs left from machining.

Very pleased. I hope to get a U-bin emitter for the first head I killed.


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## KDOG3 (Nov 16, 2006)

I love mine. I think its one of the best setups there is. Surefire REALLY needs to think about doing this...


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## JanCPF (Nov 16, 2006)

I agree. It really is a nice allround utility beam. No surprise though because this is essentially the beam of a McLux PD on high, which is highly regarded by owners of that one. The sweet part is it's a lot cheaper, while still holding Surefire quality feel. And thanks to very helpfull modders like grnamin ( :wave: ), it's accessable to those of us with less skills and/or guts. 

Jan


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## BigBoy (Dec 8, 2006)

I am getting together all the parts to do this mod. I have on hand some Cree P4 emitters. What issues should I anticipate when using a Cree in this Mod?
Thanks,
Bob


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## KDOG3 (Dec 8, 2006)

Hmmm, I don't know. I don't think the Mcr20 is good for the Cree.... I'm going to build another one of these as soon as a pending sale goes through. I have a black HA E1e body on the way, and I will order a black KL1 head, and black HA Z61 tailcap for it. Can't wait!


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## grnamin (Dec 8, 2006)

BigBoy said:


> I am getting together all the parts to do this mod. I have on hand some Cree P4 emitters. What issues should I anticipate when using a Cree in this Mod?
> Thanks,
> Bob


 
At the very least, you will have to modify the LED holder/heatsink because the Cree won't fit in it. The groove where the LED sits is custom tailored to hold a Luxeon III/V form factor. A K2, for instance, won't fit, much less a Cree.


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## Alin10123 (Dec 16, 2006)

This is a pretty sweet mod. 
The cree is a much taller and wider LED. It's going to take a bit of work possibly trying to get that into the head of the e2e. If you manage to get it in, you probably would take away from a lot of the depth of the reflector since it's not that deep to begin with.


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## KDOG3 (Dec 16, 2006)

If I could only find a black KL1 head - every vendor I know of is out.


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## jonlerd (Dec 16, 2006)

can anyone take a snap shop of the collets they used to take this puppy apart and where can one obtain these tools? Also why has no one tried transplanting a cree x-re led into this light? would this work?


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## Alin10123 (Dec 17, 2006)

jonlerd said:


> can anyone take a snap shop of the collets they used to take this puppy apart and where can one obtain these tools? Also why has no one tried transplanting a cree x-re led into this light? would this work?





Alin10123 said:


> The cree is a much taller and wider LED. It's going to take a bit of work possibly trying to get that into the head of the e2e. If you manage to get it in, you probably would take away from a lot of the depth of the reflector since it's not that deep to begin with.



.


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## jonlerd (Dec 17, 2006)

sorry missed that post, would drilling out the cut away on the heat sink to accomidate a cree work? i mean i know we can make it work but how would the cree do with a mcr20 or the tir lens?


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## milkyspit (Dec 27, 2006)

jonlerd said:


> sorry missed that post, would drilling out the cut away on the heat sink to accomidate a cree work? i mean i know we can make it work but how would the cree do with a mcr20 or the tir lens?




Been there, done that. It does work, yes, but IMHO not necessary. A short brass pedestal in combination with a 17XR reflector fits nicely under the dome of the KL1gen4. As for waterproofing, I use one of the ubiquitous rubber grip rings that I've passed around as freebies at all recent PhotonFests to form a compression seal against the lens. Seems to work really well!


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## MorpheusT1 (Aug 4, 2007)

Very nice thread,

Lots of stuff to learn 


How to i proceed if i want get acess to the Converter,any precautions?


Benny


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## grnamin (Aug 4, 2007)

Benny, if you want to access just the converter, then you would concentrate on loosening and removing the lowest section of the bezel, the one that screws onto the battery tube. Be careful when twisting it loose and then off because the converter board sometimes moving along with the twisting and loosening, thereby also twisting the wiring. I've had some wiring come off of the board and they can be difficult to solder back on.


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## MorpheusT1 (Aug 4, 2007)

Isnt that the only part that can be screwed off?

I can only find one seam on my heads.


My guess is uncrew the top first then uncrew another time to acess the bottom or is it possible to get right to the electronics?


Benny


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## ROK (Aug 4, 2007)

MorpheusT1 said:


> Isnt that the only part that can be screwed off?
> 
> I can only find one seam on my heads.
> 
> ...








In my experience, upper section is much harder than lower section to disassemble. That means, in most case, lower section is disassembled first. So, you can easily access to converter board because its position is between lower section and heatsink.


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## MorpheusT1 (Aug 5, 2007)

thanks 


Just cracked one open.
And you were right the bottom portion came off first.
After some trying the upper part came off 
Only downside is that the upper part got a character mark from my vice grips..Those things are nasty when they slip.


Benny


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## jlomein (Aug 5, 2007)

I bought a KL1-R from someone pre-modded, with a McR-20 reflector and Seoul LED swap. I always have a hard time deciding whether to carry this KL1-R, or a stock KL4. The KL4 has a wide flood/spill, and no focused hotspot, which works well for close/medium use. I like the KL1-R because it has a brighter spill beam (although less wide), and tight hotspot for distance.

Just a couple questions. Is there a way to get a wider, more KL4-like side spill from the KL1-R? I think the tight spill is a result of using a deep reflector? (while the KL4 has a shallow reflector).

Is there a better LED solution to use than the Seoul LED, which will provide the same brightness, but run cooler? I like to use this KL1-R as a tablestanding light, but using an AW protected 3.7v RCR123 the battery protection circuit cuts out after about 15-20 minutes continuous use due to heat.

Just confirming, that having the same current, a Seoul LED is supposed to run cooler than a Lux III?

thanks


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## Kelvino (Oct 22, 2007)

Would somebody of you guys with modded KL1s sell me their TIR optic.
Please let me know if you don't need it anymore and willing to give it away.


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## jlomein (Oct 22, 2007)

I converted my KL1-R Seoul back to TIR optic. It is far more useful this way for throw, and adding an F04 Diffuser cap creates an even flood for close range use without a hotspot.

My only complaint is that when using the optic, besides the main spot of light, I have several rings that that show up outside of the main spot. This is quite annoying and I wonder if this can be preventing when using the optic with a Seoul LED?


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## garfieldso (Jan 9, 2008)

I also did a mod to my KL1 head.

I used the hair-blower to soften the epoxy first and disassembly them. 














original regulating circuit





original Luxon III





I couldn't get one McR20, but replaced with a plastic reflector in it and replaced the LED with SSC P4, also replaced the dome len with a flat len. 





The light output is not so bad, I am using the 17670 3.7V in an E2E body


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## garfieldso (Jan 9, 2008)

I also did a mod to the original Surefire E2E head, and made it use the CREE Q5, and Protected 17670 3.7V Li-ion.

The regulating circuit has 3 function groups, and its UI has total 17modes.

1. low - mid - high - strobe - SOS
2. low - mid - high
3. low - mid - high - strobe - fast strobe - strobe(3Hz) - slow strobe(1Hz) - super slow strobe (5s) - SOS...

Inside the head has a tube to hold the emitter, of which to be cut out in order to fit in the Q5.





solder in the circuit to the brass CREE Q5 holder









I tuned the circuit to use 3.7V 17670 Li-ion









Lighting test





The original reflector is designed for emitter and not for LED!!





Angle up to 60 degree 





I tried to replace the len with a magnify glass, it seemed better









emit angle narrowed to 30~degree, but still not favorable


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## SRacer2000 (Jan 9, 2008)

Damn that's sexy! Good job!


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## houtex (Jan 9, 2008)

That second shot looks so cool!:twothumbs


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 9, 2008)

Link to proper "magnify glass" Please!
Looks good to me.


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## garfieldso (Jan 11, 2008)

Sgt. LED said:


> Link to proper "magnify glass" Please!
> Looks good to me.








the magnify glass is a simply single sized with coating in 23mm dia, I have to grind it down a little bit to 22.5mm as to fit in the housing


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## garfieldso (Jan 11, 2008)

garfieldso said:


> I also did a mod to my KL1 head.
> 
> I used the hair-blower to soften the epoxy first and disassembly them.
> 
> ...



I did further mod to it.
My friend gave me 2 IMS20 plastic reflectors; so I did a further mod and put it in. The external one is the previous one.





The reflector neck is well fit for SSC P4, no more gap now.
I also replaced the stock KL1 circuit with the 0.8~7V, 3 function groups 17 modes regulator. I tuned it when using 4V input voltage drawn around ~700mA. 
Not too aggressive as it is a small flashlight and using plastic reflector.





When using 17670 3.7v, it is brighter than the Surefire stock circuit





It gave a good focusing and at least a little beam with E2E.
Well, it's petty good to this little IMS20.


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## kosPap (Oct 30, 2008)

Hi all!

how about modding an older style KL1 head, the one with the cooling ribs?
Will the aprts needed be the same?

And if one wishes to change the board what is the original's diameter?

tnx, Kostas


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## RA40 (Feb 13, 2010)

Dragging up this old thread...so 4 years later, the head is in need of some updates. Suggestions? Or let it go and find a new project?


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## Mister T (Feb 13, 2010)

I once tried to mod the new KL1 as already shown in this thread but wasn't able to open the head without destroying it.

Some time ago I did a mod to the old style KL1 with Cree XR-E and McR19 which is one of my favourite LED/reflector combinations ever. The led is driven by a DownBoy 700 on a SF L4 body.


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## RA40 (Feb 13, 2010)

Looking through my small parts box, I found some TWOJ and UWOJ emitters. Pretty ancient by today's standards but might bump it a bit. I've seen mention of Seoul emitters...seems like these better bumps than the old ones I have?


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## greenLED (Mar 24, 2010)

RA40 said:


> Looking through my small parts box, I found some TWOJ and UWOJ emitters. Pretty ancient by today's standards but might bump it a bit. I've seen mention of Seoul emitters...seems like these better bumps than the old ones I have?


Yes, p4's are MUCH brighter, and more efficient to.


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## schiesz (Apr 20, 2010)

Yes, get a new Seoul U3 emitter and drop it in. That is my plan unless I can find a good bright high-CRI emitter to use instead.


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## KevinL (Oct 10, 2010)

This thread is just too good to leave dead. 

I recently came into a 4th-gen KL1 (the first batch without fins) and by today's standards it is pretty hopeless. I fired it up and my first thought was "something must be wrong with the batteries". Again, the DMM tells me that single CR123 at 2.98 volts is doing pretty ok, and that my imagination is getting away with me. 

So it's the KL1's fault. We gotta fix that. 

Huge thanks to mikeymoto for not just posting pics, but keeping the pics up for four years!!


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## FREI (Apr 14, 2012)

Here is my version of a KL1-R:

The LED is a XM-L U2 on a 16mm round copper board. I had filed the board down to fit in the heatsink. Driver ist the stock KL1 driver, reflektor is a McR20S wir a custom polyamid "spacer ring"

Here are some pics:

Heatsink with XM-L





Part of the head with refelctor and spacer ring






Everything fits in





All parts together





Beamshot


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## FREI (May 8, 2015)

Oldstyle KL1 with xp-g2 3s 3A tint and McR18:





Beam:


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