# An incandescent history lesson. Thank you...



## scout24 (Sep 8, 2014)

So I went into General Settings a while back, and selected "show all" for threads. I just got done catching up on 169 pages of incan CPF history going back ten years to 2004. Very cool to see all the familiar names that are still around, and a bunch that don't seem to be active anymore. I'ii admit to skimming looking for SF specific threads and reading them, as well as a bunch of Mag Mod threads. Seeing the earlier attempts at rechargable solutions, and lots of the same questions answered that are still being asked today. Thank you to all of you here that led the way back in the day when Lux III's and V's were coming out, and are still around. 

If you're as new here as I am, you really should give all these old pages a look. Seeing some of the Old Guard here on CPF when they were here only a year or two is worth the time all by itself, nevermind the treasure trove of info that is here. I'm going to walk my dog now, it's nice and dark in my neck of Pennsylvania. We have a bright moon tonight, but I'm bringing my M4 with 2x17670's and a LF HO-M3T with a stock G2 for backup.  Long live the incan.



(PS- I still love my LED's too...  )


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## Timothybil (Sep 8, 2014)

I loved my G2 incan when I had it, especially with the LF HO-6 upgrade. I really thought it was (and still is) a great light. From there I started down the LED path with a Streamlight Microstream (still another great light - good for EDC). Along with a few side detours along the way I wound up with a Nitecore TM11 and an EA4W and EA41. My latest acquisitions were a couple of TeraLux Lightstar 80s, with the 80+ CRI emitters. I really, really like the higher CRI light, to the point that I am thinking about getting the Lumens Factory 90+ CRI tri-mode drop-in to upgrade my Seraph 6. So it seems that I have effectively come pretty much full circle back to the incan world, but staying with LEDs to do so.

I too have fond memories of when the Incandescent Forum was the place to be, with all the discussions about swapping various SF lamps and bi-pin adapters, and third-party lamp assemblies; all to get a few more lumens or a little longer run-time. It is kind of sad to see that days can go by with only one or two entries into the forum, when it once was so alive.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 9, 2014)

I don't know if I'd have it in me to read all 169 pages of incandescent CPF history, nor am I one of the Old Guard here on CPF. I seem to have joined right at the turn of the LED revolution. The XP-G, along with the neutral tints, came out within a year of me joining. But it still gave me enough time to test a pile of cold angry blue LED lights and turn to the incadescent world for a taste.

I've gone mostly LED but have always kept a few incands along the way. More recently I've bought some nice new ones and enjoy using them immensely. The offerings from FM still rock the incand world and have made me very happy. I have a few G2s that live in my autos as car lights - they have LED drop-ins but could just as easily live their lives with P60s.

Maybe when I have a long free day or three I'll browse through the archive.


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## scout24 (Sep 9, 2014)

It's worth the read to see McGizmo posting in an E2d thread about modding the tailcap, Milky looking to purchase a G2, and Al (Size 15's) patiently answering piles of Surefire questions. And the speculation from one poster back in '06 iirc that the subforum was fading away and would eventually be closed because of those new-fangled LED's...


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## DRoc (Sep 10, 2014)

It's gotten to the point where the only thing many folks see now is the latest, greatest led light or dropin, pushing higher and more amperage and its no point in trying to discuss otherwise.


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## tab665 (Sep 11, 2014)

I fondly remember a while back I had spent hours going through the different threads looking for rechargeable solutions for my M4 and M6. I got a 3x17670 carrier for the M6 with a HO-M6 bulb but my favorite combo is the same setup as yours with a M4 and the HO-M3T. when its foggy at night I still enjoy randomly going outside to to throw some M4 "laser beams" in the sky. the wife prefers using an LED flashlight when she steps outside at night because it will light up a wider area, I try explaining to her that its because they got no THROW! noobs.


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## sgt253 (Sep 11, 2014)

I, like most here, have run the gamut from "low powered" incandescents to "high powered" incandescents to "low powered" led's to "high powered" led's in the 10 years that I have frequented this forum. Lately, "everything old is new again". It has become quite clear to me that there is no substitute for a well driven incandescent! I have been shelving all of my collection for the simple well driven "hotwire". Boy am I a happy human...


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 11, 2014)

I think the lesson I need to learn here is that when the incan bug starts to go away I should just shelve my incan lights for a while rather than selling them. That way, 6 months down the road, when the bug hits again I won't have to go through the long hunt of finding obscure unobtanum pieces again.

I'm definitely in a incan phase. My A2 has never gotten more use (well I guess that means it's more of a hybrid phase  ).

The cool part of staying incan is that the batteries now, versus 5 years ago, are amazingly more powerful. They may not last that long, but I can drive a MN21 off the newer IMR 18500s and they don't even break a sweat!


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## scout24 (Sep 11, 2014)

Runtime on those 18500's? I may need to lego...


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 11, 2014)

They are eFest 1100mAh 18500. Will do a runtime test tonight and report back. I would estimate 10-12 minutes.


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## scout24 (Sep 11, 2014)

And an awesome 10-12 minutes I'm sure... Looking forward to more info.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 11, 2014)

*An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*

Now this is cool incandescent history brought up to 2014 standards. 

So here is the light. SureFire KT2-BK head, Leef 2x18500 body, Mooddolar Triad tailcap, AW SoftStart, MN21 and 2 x eFest purple IMR 1100mAh cells.

Runtime test with nearly full cells (I had played with the light a little bit before starting the test, maybe a minute or two). I ran the test for 10 minutes on 100% power. The bulb was still putting out significant lumen levels when I stopped the test. Temperature measurements of outside of body showed max 125*F. Temperature reading on batteries showed max 115*F. 

At the end of the test the batteries showed 3.59 volts each. When I put them back in and took a tailcap current measurement they were still pushing 4.78Amps through the light.

*Coming up later:* SureFire C2, Leef M2C adapter, KT4 Turbohead, Ronac HA Tailcap w/ AW SoftStart running 2 x 18350 eFest purple IMR cells.


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## archimedes (Sep 11, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*



ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> Now this is cool incandescent history brought up to 2014 standards.
> 
> So here is the light. SureFire KT2-BK head, Leef 2x18500 body, Mooddolar Triad tailcap, AW SoftStart, MN21 and 2 x eFest purple IMR 1100mAh cells....



Outstanding build ... any beamshots ? :devil:


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## Timothybil (Sep 11, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*

Now I'm really sorry I didn't have the money back then. I would love to have had one of those turboheads on by G2! Oh well. If I ever really get turbo fever there is always Lumen Factory's new one to try out.

I also want to mention that I haven't seen this much activity on this forum in a long time. It is nice to seem some of us leaning back towards the good old days.


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## scout24 (Sep 11, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*

Looks like I need to shop for some eFest cells. Nice.


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## swampgator (Nov 21, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*

I remember getting into Hotwires back in '06. My first was the classic Mag 2C with 3/123s and KPR112: 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?73615-KPR113-vs-KPR112-in-3x123-2C-Mag

But somewhere along the way real life interfered with the lights and I found myself visiting CPF less and less. Then one day I log on and the Hotwire section was gone.


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 21, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*

Not really gone, check this.

Bill


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## swampgator (Nov 22, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*



Bullzeyebill said:


> Not really gone, check this.
> 
> Bill


I do consider myself lucky that I found CPF in the days of hotwires. 

Thanks, Bill!


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## RedLED (Nov 26, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*

I say this about all my top of the line professional Nikon camera gear: "Back in the Stone Age, five years ago."


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## socom1970 (Nov 28, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*

Man, this thread brings back memories. Back when I joined CPF in 2004, I had been looking around for info on my only two lights, my Magcharger and my Surefire 6R setup. Both awesome rechargeable incans. I still remember loving how much beautiful, quality light came out of that 6R and could fit nicely in my pocket, unlike the Magcharger, which had awesome output, but way bigger than my 6R and not pocketable. I even splurged with my money sometimes and dared to convert the 6R to the 6P and use the REALLY expensive Duracell D123 cells that gave me an ultra-compact 65 beautiful incan lumens at about $15.00 per hour or 120 lumens from the P61at $15.00 per 20 minutes. I cherished every minute of those expensive lumens, knowing I had the most badass light of anyone I knew. 

Then I found CPF and found so many great people who shared my interest for flashlights. It's amazing that its only been 10 years now and how far we've come...


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 29, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*

Don't give up on the incans, they still have their place, particularly with rechargeable options. I bring out some of my incans, fuel them up with Li-Ions and marvel at their bean and color.

Bill


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## Str8stroke (Nov 29, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*

The Indy lights brought me here originally. Plus, the foundation of our hobby is the Indy light. For many folks my age and older (mid 40's), we grew up with the Maglite. It was THE Flashlight. And I dreamed of "oneday" being able to afford one of those crazy bright small lights (Surefire). I landed on CPF way back in the early days via AOL search. I have vague memories of that time. I couldn't afford to do much, so I only read and dreamed. I only returned here a few years ago as a lurker, then signed up as a member years later. 
I too have gone back and read many of the vintage threads. Being a newer member, I do it not to reminisce, but to learn. I think, from reading many posts, that many of us still own some nice indy lights. I know I have collected a few indy Surefires over the years. I upgraded many of them to LED. But I have found myself return many of them to their stock formats. I too keep several indy SF lights as car lights. Besides, my truck is a 2003 model and I have to keep the lights period correct.  

Incandescent Lights : _The Force Reawakens_!


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## newbie66 (Nov 29, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*

I recently bought a minimaglite incan for keepsake. Did not want to break the bank buying a Surefire.


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## socom1970 (Nov 29, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*



Bullzeyebill said:


> Don't give up on the incans, they still have their place, particularly with rechargeable options. I bring out some of my incans, fuel them up with Li-Ions and marvel at their bean and color.
> 
> Bill



Agreed. One of my favorite incans that I use is my SF M6 with the Ph-D M6 black rechargeable pack. Fully regulated, soft-start, four different preset voltages, and an assortment of my favorite Surefire and Lumens Factory MN-series lamp assemblies, including the MN15, MN20 and MN21. Beautifully regulated incandescent goodness! Ever since I bought my first M6, (I have two now) Ikept hoping someone someday would build a rechargeable option for it. Between Mdocod with his 2x18650/3x17670 packs and Wquiles with his Ph-D-M6 3x17670 regulated pack, I've been in incan Heaven ever since.


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## electromage (Dec 3, 2014)

*Re: An updated history lesson on why incandescent lights are so cool!*

My E2e is still incan, LF HO-E2R with 2x 16340s. I've also got a couple of [email protected] 85s that I have fun with now and then. They sure impress the "normal" folk.


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## RobertM (Aug 1, 2015)

scout24 said:


> It's worth the read to see McGizmo posting in an E2d thread about modding the tailcap, Milky looking to purchase a G2, and Al (Size 15's) patiently answering piles of Surefire questions. And the speculation from one poster back in '06 iirc that the subforum was fading away and would eventually be closed because of those new-fangled LED's...



Speaking of Al, it looks like he hasn't posted on CPF in over 2 years. Does anyone know why he disappeared? It seems kind of strange for someone who was so active on here for so long. I miss his posts and knowledge of SureFire products.


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## cland72 (Aug 11, 2015)

I'll add that lately I've been on an incan kick, too. 

I found a good deal on a Z2 combatlight last week so I snapped it up, and will leave it stock. 

This week I traded into an A2-HA-YG which I'm already in love with.

After a few months of random luck on trades, I now have pieced together a complete (albeit user) M4-CB with Z58 tailcap that houses a MN15 bulb and two AW17670 cells. It is amazing seeing the M4 stacked up against my Armytek Predator. The predator sure is bright, and runs longer, and has more modes, but the M4 still punches through the dark further, IMO.



RobertM said:


> Speaking of Al, it looks like he hasn't posted on CPF in over 2 years. Does anyone know why he disappeared? It seems kind of strange for someone who was so active on here for so long. I miss his posts and knowledge of SureFire products.



I love doing searches for older Surefires and coming across is informative posts. That guy was a Surefire encyclopedia.


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## scout24 (Aug 11, 2015)

Wow, I missed Al's leaving. I just take it for granted if cruising a SF thread that be will make an appearance. Maybe I spend too much time searching old SF threads and it seems like I just saw him...


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## cland72 (Aug 11, 2015)

scout24 said:


> Wow, I missed Al's leaving. I just take it for granted if cruising a SF thread that be will make an appearance. Maybe I spend too much time searching old SF threads and it seems like I just saw him...



I edited my post since I was thinking of DM51, not Size15s. Al is around here and active, as pointed out to me by a friendly mod


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## scout24 (Aug 11, 2015)

Thank you for the clarafication! Thought I may be losing it...


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## Search (Aug 13, 2015)

cland72 said:


> I'll add that lately I've been on an incan kick, too.
> 
> I found a good deal on a Z2 combatlight last week so I snapped it up, and will leave it stock.
> 
> ...




Ahhh so it was you that snagged that A2.. I kick myself everyday when I think back to when I was active in from early 09 to 11.. All the lights I'm searching for now were being sold left and right NIB. You could still get those YG A2s everywhere. I haven't seen a 4 flats in freaking ever. Now I'm trying to snag one of every old SF incan before they are impossible to find. 

I like my LEDs, granted everything I own is SF, but incans will always be my favorite. I don't use them due to runtimes but it's more fun collecting all of the old stuff.


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## EV_007 (Aug 16, 2015)

Wow, been awhile for me back here, but I remember hangin' out in the ican forums spreading the virtues of high CRI over the new fangled LEDs that were becoming more commonplace. 

I have a few High CRI LEDs but been missing the clean ouptut of the slightly overdriven incans as of late. My favorite was the SF P91 200 lumens bulb running on two 17670s in a SureFire C3 with +A19 extension tube or the Lumens Factory E0-9 at 380? lumens. 

But man do you pay a price for that in way of heat and efficiency, not to mention bulb life.

Today its a 1 AAA * Prometheus Beta-QRv2 Copper *with Nichia 219*
**SPORTAC P60 ** Nichia 219* CRI 92 1224 Lumen LED Drop-In living in my SureFire C2 
*EagleTac MX25L3C *2550 Lumen High CRI output

I regret selling my SureFire M6 Guardian though.


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## bykfixer (Sep 11, 2015)

This thread rules.

I don't know what bulbs those police officers who showed me their flashlights were using, in one's issued Streamlight and the others SF 6P. But a day later I'm still see-ing spots in one eye.

Officer 1 says "I'm getting an LED soon." Officer 2 said "pfft, LED's are for kids."

Backstory;
I had asked officer 1 what kinda flash light he uses and he whipped out his 6 cell looking Streamlight and lit it in my direction. Officer 2 sees officer 1 shine his light on a stranger in broad daylight and came over to see the hub-bub. 
Officer 1 says he was showing his light. Officer 2 says "what that peice o ****?" and shines his incan 6P my way. Ugh!!! 

Later in the day I bought a 6P original realizing it's a reproduction of sorts...but it got my buddy off my back about buying a 9P and making it 1k lumens.


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## cland72 (Sep 11, 2015)

I grabbed an all-nitrolon G2Z on eBay for a song this week. It arrived last night. The P60 in it has the tightest throwing beam of any P60 I've ever used. Instant favorite for $22! I don't even have to worry about it getting a little beat up.


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## scout24 (Sep 11, 2015)

Score...


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## sgt253 (Sep 12, 2015)

cland72...nice. Reminds me of the time I was able to grab a few from the Boy Scouts store on closeout. I won't show you up...but it is nice to get a deal once and a while, isn't it?

Regards.


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## cland72 (Sep 13, 2015)

sgt253 said:


> cland72...nice. Reminds me of the time I was able to grab a few from the Boy Scouts store on closeout. I won't show you up...but it is nice to get a deal once and a while, isn't it?
> 
> Regards.



Please, show me up! I vaguely remember that deal - was it a special edition G2Z?

But yes, I manage to pick up a crazy good deal on a Surefire about four times a year, and I really enjoy finding those little gems!


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## sgt253 (Sep 13, 2015)

No, just the regular incandescent G2 and G2 led tan (80lumens). Bought the incands for $19.00 new in package and led for $21.00. Grabbed all they had (4/1) Had to get them just on principle.....lol! They made great gifts that year! Of course I kept a couple for myself. G2Z for $22.00 would have been nice!

Regards.


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## sgt253 (Sep 13, 2015)

You'll never believe the score on two M3's about 3 months ago! Even I find this to be astounding. Two brand new M3's last generation, new in package from a retailer, for $80.00 a piece. Kept one and sold one for market value. Equates to a "free" M3 for me. Love that light! I'll never see a deal like that again!

Regards.


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## archimedes (Sep 13, 2015)

cland72 said:


> ....
> But yes, I manage to pick up a crazy good deal on a Surefire about *four times a year*, and I really enjoy finding those little gems!



Really !?! ... oo:


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## cland72 (Sep 14, 2015)

sgt253 said:


> You'll never believe the score on two M3's about 3 months ago! Even I find this to be astounding. Two brand new M3's last generation, new in package from a retailer, for $80.00 a piece. Kept one and sold one for market value. Equates to a "free" M3 for me. Love that light! I'll never see a deal like that again!
> 
> Regards.



Wow! Between the M3s and the G2s, you've done well!



archimedes said:


> Really !?! ... oo:



In the past 12 months, here are the good deals I can think of off the top of my head (all prices are delivered):

E1E-BK $80
L1-RD $40
A2 four flats $65
9Z (beat up) $19
Mint M951 w/ IR filter $45
G2Z $22


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## sgt253 (Sep 14, 2015)

Wow! Thats crazy deals on the E1E and L1 for sure. Good work.


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## GarageBoy (Sep 15, 2015)

As a young, sorta mall ninja 16 year old kid, I wanted allllll the surefires - when those 8AA adapters and bipin sockets came in, I did the WA 1186 mod and that was enough lumens for me- Didn't want to cut springs, didn't wanna bore anything- but I did want surefires with an AW softstart- nowadays- the neutral tint 500 lumen XML light in my pocket is good enough for me


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## bykfixer (Mar 6, 2016)

scout24 said:


> So I went into General Settings a while back, and selected "show all" for threads. I just got done catching up on 169 pages of incan CPF history going back ten years to 2004. Very cool to see all the familiar names that are still around, and a bunch that don't seem to be active anymore. I'ii admit to skimming looking for SF specific threads and reading them, as well as a bunch of Mag Mod threads. Seeing the earlier attempts at rechargable solutions, and lots of the same questions answered that are still being asked today. Thank you to all of you here that led the way back in the day when Lux III's and V's were coming out, and are still around.
> 
> If you're as new here as I am, you really should give all these old pages a look. Seeing some of the Old Guard here on CPF when they were here only a year or two is worth the time all by itself, nevermind the treasure trove of info that is here. I'm going to walk my dog now, it's nice and dark in my neck of Pennsylvania. We have a bright moon tonight, but I'm bringing my M4 with 2x17670's and a LF HO-M3T with a stock G2 for backup.  Long live the incan.
> 
> ...



Thank you for this thread. 
See-ing the posts on this one rehashing some posts from others made me laugh. Reading stuff from the early days of McGizmo and Malkoff, the PK and FiveMega history...and the time when Jeff Hanko was told "eh, that'll never work". Good stuff yet very informative. Pioneers doing things we take for granted now due to cnc machinery and overseas factories that were once hand made by tinkerers and mad scientist types.

Being in my 50's the incan light was the norm most of my life. And while the new fangled LED was growing in ability I used incans until about a year ago. Whenever a new light was purchased I never even considered buying an LED until about mid way through 2015. I needed more power one night and discovered some store bought brightness. 

Not long after that I discovered CPF while researching LED for automobile use. 
The 2 requirements kinda merged at the same time. I did own a few niche lights with their blu beam'd low output as they only came in LED.

Early into my time here I was all in on those LED's and accumulated a few (dozen)... The appeal of whopping run times, multiple settings and much brighter output was a new phenomenon to these now getting blurry eyeballs. 

Yet the whole time I kept getting flash backs of kids in my youth whose dads were computer programmers (in the punch card days) or ham radio operators etc. 
We called them propellerheads. But those fellows always had REALLY bright flashlights. Those folks are long since gone. So asking them what they used is not possible. 

The next best thing is to read a bunch of old threads here. I chuckle at the extreme output you guys were getting. And at the same time take notice of folks around me that still have not joined the world of LED. They have flatscreen tv's, smart phones and autos with back up cameras but still insist on incandecent bulbs. 

Not long ago my neighbor asked me to change a hard to reach porch bulb. I went home and grabbed a small step ladder and a cfl bulb. She said 'no thanks' to the cfl and hands me a soft white bulb to install. Well I'm thinking the bulb will last like 40 days when I installed it. True to form, the other day she asked again. 
This time I carried the step ladder and a krypton bulb. She went for that saying "I just don't like those flourescent bulbs and LED bulbs" in her deep southern Georgia drawl. 

Meanwhile the assortment of flashlights in my collection has turned towards the incan versions. So a few 'old' versions of some like Streamlight Strion, Stinger, and TL2's have been acquired. A few SureFires and now a few xenon Mags are going with me instead of those 'new fangled' LED lights. Not being of the mindset of having a 500 lumen incan I have an LED stashed in my pocket as well. 
Afterall 650 lumens with 50,000 hour lifespan and 2 hour runtime is more practical in a shtf scenario. But in terms of the flashlight for fun aspect I get more enjoyment from a fairly bright incan bulb than a pure white or neutral LED.

Recently I was curious to see what all the buzz was about in circa 03-06 surrounding the lowly Pelican M6 (2320). One arrived a few days later and has gone with me every day since. I just used it yesterday to light up some shadow areas of my sons engine bay from above while he was below. He remarked how this one didn't blind him like the (much lower output) LED's I typically use do.

Of course after 10 minutes the Pelican first arrived I was checking to see if my M61WLL would fit...and with minor tweaks it will. But the point of it was to use it in a stock platform. And it has stayed that way. Btw Pelican still makes it and says they still saw good sales in 015 so it'll stay in the lineup. But I bought 2 more just in case...

When I read what FiveMega has done with Mags or Minimoog talking about a light with a 100 watt bulb it still brings out the little kid in me remembering the time spent on summer nights with our cheesy little lanterns and the propellerheads kid snuck out his dads light...us asking "will it catch grass on fire?" or when he accidently beamed you and you go "holy crap guy, shine that thing somewhere else" then see-ing stars for a while. lol


Yep. Long live the incan.


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