# First HID Recommendation



## z_Icarus1 (Feb 13, 2011)

Hello everyone - I am looking to get my first real light in the next month or two. I would live to have a 35W or 50W flashlight style HID with a bulb color between 4200 and 5000k. Can you recommend some reliable brands with a good cost/performance ratio? Thanks for your help


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## BryDaddy (Mar 10, 2011)

im actually looking for something along these lines as well...........


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## mknewman (Mar 10, 2011)

I got one of these:


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## BryDaddy (Mar 10, 2011)

hey mknewman can we see some pics of it in action?


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## Patriot (Mar 11, 2011)

The Titanium innovations N30 and L35 have been the performance to dollar ratio benchmarks here at CPF for several years. With proper respect to mknewman, that light is very long and it doesn't have the throw, run-time performance, or ease of ergonomics of the other two lights mentioned. Additionally, the advertisement for the HID Country product is incredibly generic in it's language and doesn't even list the bulb color temperature. The N30 and L35 were designed by enthusiast for enthusiast who know what to look for in a high performing, reasonably priced HID spotlight. Having owned the less expensive N30 for several years, since passed down to my brother, I can tell you that they over deliver beyond their price point. The new renditions of N30 and L35 are even better and more capable than the early version that I owned.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 11, 2011)

THERER IS ALSO THE Mozo 35W HID Ultralight W Li-ion. It's l35 clone made by same factory in China. Available on ebay.

I first bought one & made into a 75W HID mod:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...5W-HID-of-all-time&highlight=mini+barn+burner

I like it so much & bought another one to play with UHP SHORT ARC lamp in it:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?310880-MOZO-Ultralight-HID-Running-UHP-shor-arc-lamp


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 11, 2011)

will be picking up the Mozo this week to convert to Higher Hid. The 4" reflector on that light looks pretty nice. You thin 500 yard bright hot spot can be had using the Mozo converted to 55W HID or better off going to 75W?


Joe


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## Icarus1 (Mar 13, 2011)

Any idea what the difference is between this light and the other 50w lights on ebay that run around $175?




mknewman said:


> I got one of these:


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 14, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> will be picking up the Mozo this week to convert to Higher Hid. The 4" reflector on that light looks pretty nice. You thin 500 yard bright hot spot can be had using the Mozo converted to 55W HID or better off going to 75W?
> 
> 
> Joe


 
I would go with 50/55W ballast upgrade. The 75W upgrade I did had short Run time, putting too much Amp draw
on the Li-ion pack. I am thinking it's possible to put 55W ballast under the body & keep the internal ballast,
Run the two ballast separately using the built in DPDT switch, basically make it into a 35W/55W dual level HID. 
If you still want the built in led light. then wire a separate switch for that.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 14, 2011)

Icarus1 said:


> Any idea what the difference is between this light and the other 50w lights on ebay that run around $175?


 
While there are many mfg. for square ballast, There might only be one real mfg. on the round 50W (50W/38W) ballast in China, so all these brands are most likely selling the same ballast based lights.

Some vendor may have better reputation, do better service or do better marketing job on Forums, but the components are unlikely to be different. The ballast (With integrated lamp) looks identical in all case I've seen. They all have 3 contact rings on bottom, one for neg. & two for 38 or 50W hook up. If the light is 50W only, it'll skip the 38W hook-up but it's still there. 

I found the ballast on Ali express, ordered one for testing.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 14, 2011)

Great idea Ma Sha was thinking 55w for the upgrade


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## Icarus1 (Mar 14, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> While there are many mfg. for square ballast, There might only be one real mfg. on the round 50W (50W/38W) ballast in China, so all these brands are most likely selling the same ballast based lights.
> 
> Some vendor may have better reputation, do better service or do better marketing job on Forums, but the components are unlikely to be different. The ballast (With integrated lamp) looks identical in all case I've seen. They all have 3 contact rings on bottom, one for neg. & two for 38 or 50W hook up. If the light is 50W only, it'll skip the 38W hook-up but it's still there.
> 
> I found the ballast on Ali express, ordered one for testing.



Can you recommend a reputable overseas seller or do you take a chance with any of them?


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 14, 2011)

I just took a chance. I looked at selling history on Ali express & picked the seller with most sold history


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## Icarus1 (Mar 14, 2011)

Anyone had much experience w/ AE Light?


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## Icarus1 (Mar 14, 2011)

Any idea if they have any with bulbs that are 4200 - 5000K? All of the ones I see on AliExpress are 6000k unless I am overlooking them.


ma_sha1 said:


> I just took a chance. I looked at selling history on Ali express & picked the seller with most sold history


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## 2100 (Mar 14, 2011)

Icarus1 said:


> Can you recommend a reputable overseas seller or do you take a chance with any of them?


 
Email them first, if they reply then do you go ahead with the transaction, ie they are hungry even with a USD52 transaction. And of course try not to buy anything that is really expensive relative to your wallet's size.  Usually most are more interested to swipe your credit card (one tried to link to my paypal and tried the transaction without me even checking out, but failed of course) than are some con job fleecing you. 

But then again I tried buying loudspeaker drivers before from a US web store, my transaction was like over 4k so the single transaction failed and prior to that I was emailing him thus in contact. The vendor was monitoring everything online and broke the transaction into 2 parts and everything went through, something which I did not initiate. Funny, never knew this could be done as I did not CHECKOUT, WOW! Citibank (VISA) called me to verify. This was quite long ago, I think 2005 or something, before the "Verifed by VISA online authentication" through mobile phone SMS which is in place now to check with the card holder before approving the transaction.

So yeah, doing a history check on the transactions is good, what I see is most are pretty recent in February/March from various countries like Brazil, Aus, etc.


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## mjn (Mar 15, 2011)

My wife bought me HID country's 3500 lumen HID light. Looks just like the one pictured above. She probably paid too much for it, but what the heck.. it sparked my interest in flashlights and brought me here!

In all honesty, I have not used it a ton... but it is one kickazz light. SERIOUS throw...


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## netprince (Mar 15, 2011)

Is the mozo still available anywhere?? I dont see it on ebay...


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## Icarus1 (Mar 15, 2011)

Does anyone know if Oracle makes a 50w and if Oracle lights are worth the extra price they ask?


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 16, 2011)

netprince said:


> Is the mozo still available anywhere?? I dont see it on ebay...


 
The seller put up one light at a time, with some time in between.
Hope he has more later, not like POB, eventually all gone.

There's a second seller on ebay but sells over $180


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 19, 2011)

Took my 38/50W HID flashlight to my property today wasnt impressed first the light difference between the 38 and 50W modes was almost un-noticeable it was very bright but my DBS V3 ashperic will out throw it lastly the hotspot is the ugliest I have ever seen it's broken up and had dark spots was unable to get it to focus any better. am going to look into a better reflector for it maybe have one made I could thread an extention tube from aluminum to extend the head and have a deep reflector made for it will have to see when other projects are completed. 

Joe


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## 2100 (Mar 19, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> Took my 38/50W HID flashlight to my property today wasnt impressed first the light difference between the 38 and 50W modes was almost un-noticeable it was very bright but my DBS V3 ashperic will out throw it lastly the hotspot is the ugliest I have ever seen it's broken up and had dark spots was unable to get it to focus any better. am going to look into a better reflector for it maybe have one made I could thread an extention tube from aluminum to extend the head and have a deep reflector made for it will have to see when other projects are completed.
> 
> Joe


 
I think I saw a video on youtube saying all those car kits (ala generic stuff from China) the difference between 35W and 55W is pretty minimal but you end up with more heat. Perhaps something to do with the lumens efficiency.
One can find the 65W version. I'd say if the form factor works for you ie long and thin, if you sling it you can hide it under your coat and not even draw attention or feel uncomfortable, then just bite the bullet and get it as a "first HID light", since its not costly anyway. 

Yeah its not gonna be a throw monster. The 55W SM5200 with like 7" reflector (only usd52 before shipping) will easily outthrow it for 1/2 the price, but then it is BIG and heavy (mod with Li-ion packs?). 
But then like you said you brought it to your property, it'd most likely to be lighting up say a row of houses from the roadside, checking on a big corporate building's external facade, or in a huge auditorium or even a stadium. It will not be for lighting up a cruise ship sailing off from the harbour, definitely. (that'd be Vector 192 BFL 200W HID territory)

As in,
65W Ebay - illuminating from ground level a big/wide 60 storey building.
SST-90 (Trustfire X6) - illuminating perhaps only 4 windows of the 50th floor of the building.

I'd guess in some instances you may prefer the former case, some instances you may want the latter. If the person's hobby in this nature is all about light throw - then the best bang for the buck is not a WWII carbon short-arc searchlight but a 1W 445nm laser. LOL!  At 3km range you can do prob about 4 windows on a skyscraper, and you need a bino to view the effect up close.
(btw Ankaka.com has a pretty good 1W 445nm for usd156 free DHL/FedEX/EMS shipping to even USA, take out the crummy-type generic MIC 18650 though for safe/smooth shipment, get the goggles if there is a need - i assume all hobbyists here are matured for this type of usage....it has slightly larger divergence than usual probably due to the optics hence the low price)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm5V9WJfwJw
(check out 2:15 for daytime shots, 300m away the spot is ~ 1/2 window pane wide)

And anyway, i'd hazard a guess that if the 6000K bulb is changed to 4300K, which is only possible for those lanterns using H4/H7, you'd get like 10% more lumens due to a slight boost in lm/W efficiency. So for the lanterns it is also slightly more tweakable for those with itchy fingers. :thumbsup:


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## 2100 (Mar 19, 2011)

Wow throwjunkie, your DBS V3 throw is good if it can outthrow a 50W HID with "crummy reflector by your standards", its a SST-50 light (not SST-90)....i guess the aspheric lens helps a lot. 

This is what other SST-50 vs 65W ebay can do. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?309971-My-First-HID-65W-45W-Xeccon-from-Ebay


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 20, 2011)

2100 I have 16 total lasers I build myself from 100mW up to 2W total power. I build them for attachment to my CNC cutting machine but also use them to shine on stuff and Burn things I do use goggles. 
The 38/55W HID I bought is the flashlight style from ebay. I was going to by the 65W and may still do that. I think a really bad beam due not so good reflector and the buld not very well centered and such are effecting the throw on the light and permitting the Dereelight DBS v3 aspheric to out throw it. The HID was for sure not a bad purchase I will get much use from it. At some point I will mod it for the purpose I bought it for. I think with a better reflector the light will be awesome its very bright I know how well HID's can push that light some distance I have a couple Spotlights and they throw very well. But as you said thet are large and not practical for carring around in the field. I will be pulling the HID apart today to check the reflector and try and center the Bulb a bit.


Joe


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## 2100 (Mar 20, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> 2100 I have *16 total lasers I build myself* from 100mW up to 2W total power. I think a really bad beam due not so good reflector and the buld not very well centered and such are effecting the throw on the light and permitting the Dereelight DBS v3 aspheric to out throw it.
> Joe


 
Wow....expert!:bow: lovecpf

Another good way to use the ebay HID to stand it on its end and shoot at the ceiling/wall during a blackout. Whenever I go to my wife's hometown in Indonesia, blackouts are very common (usually lasts for 30mins - 2hrs) and whatever flashlights I bring along becomes really useful and you get pretty good quality soft light from bounced lighting, which is different from say an emergency fluorescent lantern which would be in a way bigger package if you match the output.

Remember to let us know when you do get the lens/reflector off, i could not do that. 

Gotta try a flashlight with an aspherical lens someday.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 20, 2011)

Not an expert with lasers just know a good deal about building them. 
As for the HID the Reflector has dimples and irregularities where it wasn't made well it's plastic so it's also not gonna hold up well to the heat the bulb generates inside the head of the flashlight, in fact its allready starting to melt on the edge so I bet the reflector has warped out of round enough to ugly up the hotspot I think it should have. I'm scared to try and bend the bulb to the center because the base it sets in has also started to melt from the heat. will play with it tomorrow some more and take some pictures as well some beamshots. I still think it will make for a great light with some work so I'm still happy with the purchase.

Joe


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 21, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> The 38/55W HID I bought is the flashlight style from ebay.
> 
> I think a really bad beam due not so good reflector and the buld not very well centered and such are effecting the throw on the light and permitting the Dereelight DBS v3 aspheric to out throw it.
> Joe


 

This is actually not that surprising. DBS Aspheric gets about 70-80 Klux @ 1 meter. 
Flashlight shaped 35W HID has 3" reflector gets about 135K lux @ 1 meter. If the 50w runs like 38W, plus not centered well, it'll probably be less than 135 Klux.

LED light looks much brighter than the lux readings indicate, a 80K lux led may look as bright as 135K lux HID because lux meter is most sensitive at 3000K (yellow peak) which white led lacks significantly, so it under read the lux vs. incan & HIDs. 

Here is an example of my 150K lux MagDragon Jr. Aspheric out throw the 200 Klux Mozo 35W HID/4" reflector: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-vs.-35W-HID&p=3539281&viewfull=1#post3539281

Here is another example, my 300 Klux FrankenMag LED Torpedo hang in there with MaxaBeam short arc 50W mode (about 900,000 lux @ 1 meter)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...e-300K-lux-LED-Torpedo-amp-fun-with-Maxa-Beam

Besides my own examples, here is an example from the SR90 review by selfbuilt:
If you look the animated beam shots between SR90 & L35, you can see that the 112 Klux
SR90 appears throw as well as the 225K lux l35 HID (4" reflector, the ebay Mozo HID is a clone of this light) 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?272521-Olight-SR90-Intimidator-%28Phlatlight-SST-90%29-Review-BEAMSHOTS-RUNTIMES-and-more!&highlight=sr90+review


Here is a list of HID lux readings for reference. I would expect the Mozo ultralight to out throw the ebay 50/38W HID flashlight due to the larger reflector & squarre ballast used: 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-of-all-time&p=3554957&viewfull=1#post3554957

FIY,

I just got a 50W round HID ballast (used in theses flashlight looking HIDs) from Aliexpress for evaluation for it's out put, unfortunately it's DOA (Dead on Arrival). My only other round 35W HID ballast that I got on ebay appears to under perform the typical square 35W ballast. So the round ballast used in flashlight shaped HID might be another reason for lack of performance. I wonder if some short cuts were taken when shrinking the size...


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## 2100 (Mar 21, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> Not an expert with lasers just know a good deal about building them.
> As for the HID the Reflector has dimples and irregularities where it wasn't made well it's plastic so it's also not gonna hold up well to the heat the bulb generates inside the head of the flashlight, in fact its allready starting to melt on the edge so I bet the reflector has warped out of round enough to ugly up the hotspot I think it should have. I'm scared to try and bend the bulb to the center because the base it sets in has also started to melt from the heat. will play with it tomorrow some more and take some pictures as well some beamshots. I still think it will make for a great light with some work so I'm still happy with the purchase.
> 
> Joe


 
Careful....the body tube holding the Li-ion gets really hot if you are gunning for the full 70 mins (which is definitely attainable on my copy, though I broke up the usage in stages....in fact it did like 85mins that way). The cells closest to the ballast in the pack might blow, I don't have my Fluke IR thermometer with me so I can't get figures, but it sure is hot. A 2 sec touch is the absolute limit. So need to break it up to say 20 mins max usage each time. So this is another -ve. But I guess USA is definitely much colder, so not much issue. But over here where its 3AM now and its still 28 deg C ambient, it is an issue. 

Oh yeah...just thought about this - a good pt about the ebay HID is that you can do a wide 45 deg flood by decousing it, still the flood is not pretty, but usable. The SM5200 is not usable for anything below like 30-40m, too glaring.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 21, 2011)

Ma Sha I pulled the ballast and bulb assembly from the light today. I found the reason for the bulb off center. At the factory they must have lost a screw that holds the bulb plate to the ballast, what they did is stick a bigger one in the hole and stripped it so it wasnt holding the bulb mount flush to the Ballast, and had it lifted on one side. I was able t get the screw out and rethread it so I could install another one now that the bulb is centered the Hotspot looks much better Here are some pics of the light and better hotspot 




















Joe


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 21, 2011)

I am glad you got it fixed. Looks nice!
My 50W ballast/bulb from Aliexpress is DOA, need to get another one.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 22, 2011)

That bites I wish I knew for sure bout these round ballast cant wait till you do some testing My guess is there is oneballast size for all the flashlight type HIDs from the 24 on up to the 65 what I am wondering What there Max truely is. The Bulb in my HID isn't as big a tube diameter as my phillips 50 I know for sure the phillips bulb is 50W. so I'm betting its an overdriven 35W bulb and I bet the 65W HID light is an overdriven 50W bulb.

Joe


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## 2100 (Mar 23, 2011)

For all we know, the 65W could be a 35W overdriven thingy too..... Nobody has tested. 

Actually for T5, I have been overdriving some normal T5 NO with T5 HO ballasts. Its for my home lights, and after about 300hrs now (about 30mins - 1 hr each night, its been 13 months), still going strong.... I do have T5 HO tubes, but I also have some NO lying around so I wanna see when would they blow. I use LED strips (about some 70 metres worth LOL!) and T5 HO for my under cab lighting and alcove lights.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 24, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> Good find gonna pull my Ballast out to measure it tomorrow will post the size getting the ballast out is fairly easy.
> 
> Joe



The 50/38w version looks like the one in the middle, which is about 3" long not counting the bulb.
The shorter one is prob 35w-24W versions & the longest I'd assume be the 65W/45w version

Can you measure the voltage out from the battery on your light? There should be 3 contact pads or ring on the battery
that match with bottom of the ballast. The two outer contacts are pos. & negative.

The center is for changing modes. I am getting another HID ballast as pictured below, but they usually don't come with any instriuctions.

*Info. needed:*
Votage from pos to Neg. & Voltage from center pad to negative.

Then click the button & measure again. I.e. I need the voltage info in 50 & 38W mode to help me to figure out if the center pad provide a voltage trigger that switch between modes in order wire it correctly. 

Thanks


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 24, 2011)

OK I see some info has been posted I'm posting some pics of mine 

Battery contacts on Battery





Ballast contacts 





Screw I had to replace on mine





Ballast measurements





Hope this helps


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 24, 2011)

Thanks. 

2100 posted D lower volt =38W
at 50W, D=0.

Did you test both ways?


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 24, 2011)

yes tested at 50W and 38W settings. here is the confusing part. I switch the 50W mode on I get 11.7Volts between + and K that should be correct. I tested + to D at that setting I got 0volts thats correct. Now I switch to 38W mode I get 7.1 volts between K and D I check and find I still have 11.7 volts between + and K so both rings are getting power at the same time under the lowest mode. Would seem to me that should be the other way around, I do remember from DC electrical class there is a difference of potential with voltage. I'll elplain if you put 2 cables togeather one with 36 volts and connect it to another cable with 12 volts the difference of potential would be 24 volts this difference would allow you to wire a 24 volt motor between the voltages and run the motor as voltage and current run from high to low. so with this light is it possible its running the same way? that would mean the ballast could run on as low a voltage as 4.6Vif we use the voltage reading I got from the battery.


Joe


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 24, 2011)

No, the Ballast only runs on 11.7V between + & -,
the +7V to the D only provide a signal to circuit board to switch mode down to 38W, it doesn't get involved in powering the lamp.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 24, 2011)

ok Im guessing this is done inside the ballast? as it does this even with the battery dissconnected from the system testing the contacts.



Joe


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 24, 2011)

Well, both,

In side ballast, there must be a circuit which will down shift to 38W when seeing 7V in the center pad.
The battery also has circuit in side that, which will provide 7V upon click to the center pin.

When you plug them together,

Click--7V to center pin----7V on center pad----down shift to 38w.


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## 2100 (Mar 25, 2011)

Throwjunkie, may I know how did you manage to get the bulb/ballast out of the shell? I think I'd need to center my 50W bulb.

My 65W arrived. It is a 5000K bulb, while my 50W version is 6000K. So both at 50W power, I still can see the new 65W version is a little wee bit brighter from the direct spill light. There is a slight but noticeable difference between the 65W (@65W mode) and 50W (@50WW mode) versions esp at objects 500m away. (the 50W version is slightly decentered, i'll have to sort that out so that its a fair compario)
Too bad I got the 50W version from ebay as I did not dare to try aliexpress, else i'd have saved some $35usd and with a brighter light! Oh well, at least they use interchangeable batteries, so just take it that I bought an extra batt.....


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 25, 2011)

If you do take the ballast/lamp out & if you have an Amp meter, 

Might be worth measuring the current between battery & the balalst out side the body to get a good understanding 
of the power draw. Since some have observed the 38W/50W has little difference, how does the amp say?


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## 2100 (Mar 25, 2011)

As you can see the lens of the left 50W has fogged up a little....need to clean it up from the inside with some microfibre. 

6000K 50W left, 5000K 65W right






65W left, 50W right


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## 2100 (Mar 25, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> If you do take the ballast/lamp out & if you have an Amp meter,
> 
> Might be worth measuring the current between battery & the balalst out side the body to get a good understanding
> of the power draw. Since some have observed the 38W/50W has little difference, how does the amp say?



That won't be easy to do man....but i'll try.


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## 2100 (Mar 25, 2011)

The ballast just behind the reflector of my Sanmak SM5200 (aliexpress) got loose during shipping and knocked against the reflector thus denting it. Good guys, they are sending me a brand new reflector no questions asked.  

Still with a lousy reflector...... 

Ebay 65W left, SM5200 55W right....4 meters distance away





Ebay 65W left, SM5200 55W right, close up 30cm away (don't worry the lights are not exactly perpendicular to the wall....the 65W Ebay is good in real life).


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 25, 2011)

2100 take these 3 screws out and the ballast will come out make sure you recenter the silver washer as you reinstall it there is a small resess it sets in. Will have to remove the head from the light first so you dont damage the bulb getting it back in take your time and be carefull 





Joe


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## subwoofer (Mar 25, 2011)

I got a 65W from Ebay and have posted some pics in this thread:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?309971-My-First-HID-65W-45W-Xeccon-from-Ebay


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## 2100 (Mar 25, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> 2100 take these 3 screws out and the ballast will come out make sure you recenter the silver washer as you reinstall it there is a small resess it sets in. Will have to remove the head from the light first so you dont damage the bulb getting it back in take your time and be carefull [/IMG]
> Joe


Yes, I have tried, but how do I remove the head/reflector? Doesn't seem to be able to remove it. I can only defocus the head by turning it, can't pull it out it won't budge.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 25, 2011)

keep screwing the focus out my comes all the way off when I do that you dont have to remove the bezel for this but you will eventually to get access to the screws


Joe


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## Icarus1 (Mar 25, 2011)

2100 said:


> Throwjunkie, may I know how did you manage to get the bulb/ballast out of the shell? I think I'd need to center my 50W bulb.
> 
> My 65W arrived. It is a 5000K bulb, while my 50W version is 6000K. So both at 50W power, I still can see the new 65W version is a little wee bit brighter from the direct spill light. There is a slight but noticeable difference between the 65W (@65W mode) and 50W (@50WW mode) versions esp at objects 500m away. (the 50W version is slightly decentered, i'll have to sort that out so that its a fair compario)
> Too bad I got the 50W version from ebay as I did not dare to try aliexpress, else i'd have saved some $35usd and with a brighter light! Oh well, at least they use interchangeable batteries, so just take it that I bought an extra batt.....



2100 - Where did you find a 65W with a 5000K bulb? All of the ones I have seen have a 6000K bulb


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## 2100 (Mar 26, 2011)

I'm not sure, perhaps its "lottery". As you can see above, there is a difference in colour temperature between the 50W and 65W one. Mine is from Yongkang Greentime. Can ask Leo Liu who responds very timely and enthusiastically (i was surprised myself, thought it is grab and go kind of purchase), he is the sales manager....perhaps he will personally go through one to find a not so blue one. These things, so cheap....probably they just grab from a big batch's bin and throw it all in? Hahah....  Its usd138 shipped via EMS to my place from China through aliexpress! Ebay 50W ones are coming close to 200 bucks! oo:

With the usual HID lanterns using H3, H4, H7 bulbs, you can have a whole array of bulbs with difference Kelvins to suit different days and mood perhaps. 
I received the goods, made sure everything is cool....and then I hit the "Confirm Order Received" button via Escrow. Cool.


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## 2100 (Mar 26, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> keep screwing the focus out my comes all the way off when I do that you dont have to remove the bezel for this but you will eventually to get access to the screws
> Joe


 
Ahh...shucks. I think mine is "locked". Cannot turn it anticlockwise till it comes off.

Edit - shucks...silly me...the top part near the glass can be turned. But I need to use a glove, initially its pretty much stuck.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 26, 2011)

2100 how much brighter is the 65 over the 50 the ebay advertisement says its substantialy brighter. 


JOE


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## 2100 (Mar 26, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> 2100 how much brighter is the 65 over the 50 the ebay advertisement says its substantialy brighter.
> JOE


 
The brightness is noticeable, I posted a hotspot beamshot for the 65W vs 50W earlier on (as well as the Sanmak SM5200 55W, which has quite a dented reflector but replacement reflector is coming soon). The slightly lower colour temp probably helps about 10% as well. It is significant enough that I am ordering a 65W ballast (usd40 with EMS shipping to Singapore).  

If you are interested, contact Leo Liu from Yongkang Greentime (its a Gold Supplier), tell him the Singaporean guy recommended....he should be able to sell the 65W with EMS for not much more. The 50W version is selling for lowest usd23 + usd22 EMS to USA. To SIngapore its usd21.65 x 1 + usd16.44 EMS = usd38, so I think the price is good.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 26, 2011)

post me a link please. I think with the 65W Ballast tho I may need the housing as the 50W ballast is shorter so I dont see the battery fitting in if I swap out to the 65W will ask Loe what I will need to do


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## 2100 (Mar 27, 2011)

Apologies if I am turning this slightly OT. All individual beam shots have same manual exposure. The A-B dual beamshots - doesn't matter. 





















*Cam WB locked at 5000K for both 65W and 50W pictures*


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## 2100 (Mar 27, 2011)

I suspect that there is a bit of bulb running in as well. Well for the 50W there has been some 4 cycles of full battery (fully charged to light cut-off) usage. My 1st beam shot that I posted on page 2 was taken within 10 mins of turning on the 65W. 
Plausible explanation?

The dynamic range of the camera is not that representative compared to real life - actually in real life the 65W now looks really much brighter. Maybe it will improve even more slightly after more burning in....not sure if the new 65W ballast (perhaps slightly better efficiency) has to do anything with it. It may draw more current, but the new 65W version may also be more efficient and pump more watts to the bulb as well. 

What is real important is, its gotta look brighter to our eyes, reflected off the ceiling, 10-20m range, 50-100m, and 100-200m range.  

I have ordered a new 65W ballast, let see.  

I'll do a runtime test for the 2 versions tomorrow. Its after midnight now.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 27, 2011)

I did direct soldering in my testing, easy to clean up with copper wicks. Not sure how else you can connect it,
they are not steel plates, so no magnet trick.

Run time might be useful too, as long as there's no thermo mangement (down shift to 38W when get too hot?) kicks in differently from the two 50W ballasts that mess up the compare measurements. Perhaps, heat sink the ballasts?


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 27, 2011)

could solder wires to the rings to test then desolder and smooth the excess solder with sand paper or just spread it out so its thin. I could do it with my 50W but nothing to compare to since I dont have the 65W light there should be a fuse in the DMM so long as its a good meter I have seen some cheap ones that dont have a fuse I only use Fluke meters or Snap on/Fluke Im thinking the start up draw would be better then 10 Amps tho or atleast rite around 10A then should drop back for continous draw.

Joe


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## 2100 (Mar 27, 2011)

There shouldn't be any thermal management as I think with such stuff it'd just blow LOL!....its not Fenix LED in turbo mode man. I'm now running the tests and cooling it in front of a powerful fan running at max and the air temperature here on a rainy morning is a cool 26 deg C .  I'm more concerned that the Li-ion gets too hot, with the 65W drawing more current and heating up more, that it "heat-soaks" the Li-ion more hence less run time. During operation with active cooling, even the head is cool to the touch with the cooling, the tests should be ok.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 27, 2011)

the ballast on my light got very hot after running the light nearly an hour so there is heat generated there. Since the ballast doesn't touch anything metal on the housing I used copper tape to sink the heat to the flashlights head in the fin area now it X-fers the heat and the surface area created by the fins keeps the ballast fairly cool. The same can be done for the battery that also doesn't contact the flashout housing so there will be no way to help keep it cool during operation. I havent found my battery hot yet but for sure my ballast was.


Joe


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## 2100 (Mar 27, 2011)

Can use some CPU thermal compound. If i remember correctly, the ballast has to slide down from the bottom part of the battery tube and the contact while not a lot nor efficient, should still transfer a fair bit of heat from the ballast to the tube. 
The fact that the ballast + head area gets hot means heat is transferred ok from both bulb/reflector (convection) and ballast. If its cool then contact is not good. 

Fixed WB. Problem is that the camera processing alters the saturation quite a bit.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 27, 2011)

2100 said:


> I'm more concerned that the Li-ion gets too hot, with the 65W drawing more current and heating up more, that it "heat-soaks" the Li-ion more hence less run time.


 
I've seen some of these China HID flashlights use ICR 18650, they are not traditional Li-ion, they suppose to have low internal resistance/high amp draw like IMR but high MAH capacity like Li-ion. There's little info. about ICR on CPF, because AW made IMR famous. While ICR are used widely in power tools & Computer notebooks, technically combines the beast of IMR & Li-ion. Let us know how hot the battery gets.


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## 2100 (Mar 28, 2011)

Results are in :
50W : exactly 90 mins
65W : 82 mins

Both full charge, till the charger turns green and I let it top up for 2 more hrs. I ran the 65W first followed by 50W. I will do another round with the 65W again late tonight.

Results are in :
50W : exactly 90 mins
65W : 82 mins first time, 78 mins 2nd time, 78 mins 3rd time
(Note : realised that for 65W - 82mins, i have left the head/protective glass on, whereas the others I have removed them - not sure if there are some variances due to the different temperature of the bulb which leads to different current draw)


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 28, 2011)

There isn't sufficient contact ballast to the housing that thermal compound would work you would have to put the compound on 1/16 thick that's how much tape I have on it yes the ballast is transferring the heat to the ballast housing but not to the flashlight housing where ambient air can cool it the heat is being trapped inside the flashlight housing I'm sure this will also make the battery hotter then it would normal be. The problem is that the ballast nor the battery touches the flashlight housing for efficient cooling Convection cooling is certainly not more efficient then thermal contact cooling. I deal with cooling issues every day on the job with electronics logic boards and huge transistor controlled trucks


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## 2100 (Mar 28, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> There isn't sufficient contact ballast to the housing that thermal compound would work you would have to put the compound on 1/16 thick that's how much tape I have on it yes the ballast is transferring the heat to the ballast housing but not to the flashlight housing where ambient air can cool it the heat is being trapped inside the flashlight housing I'm sure this will also make the battery hotter then it would normal be. The problem is that the ballast nor the battery touches the flashlight housing for efficient cooling Convection cooling is certainly not more efficient then thermal contact cooling. I deal with cooling issues every day on the job with electronics logic boards and huge transistor controlled trucks


 
Yeah, I saw how big the gap could be. I'll try to wrap some tape in.

There is a small variance from my runtime tests. Think I need to do another 2 tries for each wattage. This is taking a long time, as I'd need to use the same battery.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 29, 2011)

2100 said:


> Results are in :
> 50W : exactly 90 mins
> 65W : 82 mins
> 
> ...


 

Thanks for the hard work & nice data. 
Since 50W is 90min & If we average the 65W data it/s 80min on avg. 

The change from 50W to 65W is a power increase of 30%
The run time drop from 50W(90 min) to 65W (80min) in your testing is only 11%.
Also, keep in mind that % Run times change is always > % current change (This is because increase current not only increase power consumption, it also reduces battery capacity at the same time, so a 10% Amp increase will result in run time change more than 10%). 
*I'd imagine the current draw difference between the two ballast to be <10%.*

I would expect two 50W ballast/bulb combos made by different mfg. to easily have up to 10% variations between them. Your data would suggest that they are likely both 50W ballasts.


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## Dr.Viper (Mar 29, 2011)

My suggestion is the ones below.

link removed
Norm


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 29, 2011)

was thinking the Same Ma Sha same ballast maybe difference in the bulb on the beam shots. I'm still throwing the idea of getting one of the 65's The bulb is easy enough to change out when I had mine apart looked like it was soldered in 2 wire connection there was alot of what looked like silicon inside the ballast but I was able to gently pull the bulb end out to expose the wires.


Joe


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## 2100 (Mar 29, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks for the hard work & nice data.
> Since 50W is 90min & If we average the 65W data it/s 80min on avg.
> 
> The change from 50W to 65W is a power increase of 30%
> ...


 
Results are in :
50W : exactly 90 mins, after running the 1X 50W and then 3X 65W, *I ran this again. It shot to 99 mins!* 
65W : 82 mins first time, 78 mins 2nd time, 78 mins 3rd time
(Note : realised that for 65W - 82mins, i have left the head/protective glass on, whereas the others I have removed them - not sure if there are some variances due to the different temperature of the bulb which leads to different current draw) 

Seems like the battery or something is running in as well - I will run one last time for the 50W tonight.

I think we really need to do a current draw test to be conclusive.


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## 2100 (Mar 29, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> was thinking the Same Ma Sha same ballast maybe difference in the bulb on the beam shots. I'm still throwing the idea of getting one of the 65's The bulb is easy enough to change out when I had mine apart looked like it was soldered in 2 wire connection there was alot of what looked like silicon inside the ballast but I was able to gently pull the bulb end out to expose the wires.
> 
> Joe


 
Could be the bulb as well as the ballast, may not be 65W and the 50W may not be 50W...I am getting too long runtimes with even say a true 6600mah pack assuming they are the best cells. LOL!  

But seriously, the 65W sure look noticeably brighter. Check out the reflected shots of the 65W vs 55W SM5200, both have pretty similar K. (the camera makes it look more different, think i need to turn down the saturation....and besides mine is a S-IPS monitor  )

Masha, you need to do a current draw test!


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 29, 2011)

2100 said:


> Masha, you need to do a current draw test!


 
LOL, I don't have theses HID lights, I am trying to build a Short Arc Mag Mod with the HID ballasts, So I am only buying & testing 35 to 50W ballasts.


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## 2100 (Mar 30, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> LOL, I don't have theses HID lights, I am trying to build a Short Arc Mag Mod with the HID ballasts, So I am only buying & testing 35 to 50W ballasts.


 
Ahh...i am sure you have a SMPS or some 12V SLA. 

I have an idea, actually I'm a pro photographer for weddings..... I'm thinking of using my DSLR and do spot metering on the bulb (8% for the center AF point), or I remove the reflector and take the bare bulb light on a white wall we take out more variables, the matrix metering or I could do manual but 1/3 stop difference it should be pretty accurate. If we can get like 1/3 stop that'd be 33% diff in intensity....see how it goes with both manual and camera metering. With more clues and info, we can paint a better picture.

I'm really thinking that even with current measurements, it could just simply mean that they somehow/somewhat improved ballast efficiency with different components (they could have just used different or better components), or that the 50W might be closer to 35W than we think. Seems like too many variables to juggle.

And of coz a new 65W ballast is coming.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 30, 2011)

2100 said:


> Ahh...i am sure you have a SMPS or some 12V SLA.
> 
> 
> I'm really thinking that even with current measurements, it could just simply mean that they somehow/somewhat improved ballast efficiency with different components (they could have just used different or better components), or that the 50W might be closer to 35W than we think. Seems like too many variables to juggle.


 

Agree, also you still have the variation of bulbs to account for.

I test my ballasts side by side with the same bulb/reflector combo


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 30, 2011)

If need be I can current test my 50 w your probably right about the ballast 2100 I don't have the 65w to compare to tho. If these were US sold it would be easier waiting for items to come from China take nearly a month to reach me. I would just but all 3 ballast to test. If in fact the larger ballast is used for the 50 and 65 my guess is the output will be pot or resistor controlled. I'm more thinking resistor between the 50 n 65 if the housing is the same


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 30, 2011)

I would be interested to know the 50W round vs. normal 35W ballast amp draw.
My 35W round didn't work as well as the 35W regular. 
My 50W round was DOA & the replacement is ordered but it'll be a while.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 30, 2011)

will test it tomorrow and post results The light is being used by a friend tonight so I'll do it as soon as I get it back tomorrow. I'm still thrown off by the size difference in the ballast I want to know for sure what each size has for output. I asked another guy who has the 35W if he wouldn't mind measureing his ballast hopefully he will be willing to do it. I bought a Trustfire X6 SST 90 got it in today so I wanna play with it tonight and maybe do a review on it. I was unable to find much info on it here on the forums. Hopefully my friend gets his SR90 back so we can compare them or I may just have to buy one for myself. 

Joe


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 30, 2011)

The SR90 will probably win, I measured one at 125K lux, the HID lux will read slightly higher, but the lux meter is biased toward Incan/HID. LED lacks yellow which is lux meter's peak sensitivity. The SR90 will beat or close to Mozo 35W HID in beam shots, which is 4" reflector & about 200K lux. I beat my Mozo HID with my 150K lux Aspheric Mag 1C turbo head.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 30, 2011)

I charged the batteries up and powered up the X6 the beam is very warm has a bright hotspot and yellowish tint in the primary spill the rest of the spill looks fairly neutral. I know one thing for sure it's friggen Bright as all get out looked at the bezel about 30deg angle saw spots for nearly 15 min. I hope the rain holds off here I wanna take it outside and see how well it does. I dont wanna get off topic so I'll end it here.

Joe


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## 2100 (Mar 30, 2011)

Hey, do post your impressions of the Trustfire X6 Throwjunkie, if compared to the SR90 it will be great. That's another light which I am interested in (only LED that I have is the Ultrafire U80 XM-L, sized like a C8 but just with HAIII treatment, SS crown/bezel and a couple of cosmetic diff)

Not sure if i have posted before, here's the SR90 vs the 35W POB HID done during one of the CPF meets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErTyuMMRvZU

I've done some additional run times, will post tonight all info in one shot.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 31, 2011)

Cool bought mine from eBay seller 139.00got it in 3 days I will be doing the review today on the x6 in the led forums

Review http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-X6-SST-90-Lots-O-Pic-s&p=3609309#post3609309


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## 2100 (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks throwjunkie.

Found this, resistor mod for ballast. Maybe this is it for the 65W vs 50W thingy. Seriously the price is really the same, and my run times indicate there really is a difference (still have to wait for 2 more weeks or so for my second 65W ballast).

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...uot-55W-quot-Ballast-to-get-an-extra-18W-Bulb

Need some heat management improvement in the form of tape + heat sink compound i guess, even then the tube gets hot and passes it down towards the end and heating the batteries inside. (this will happen with any high-power tube light). 
If its always cold at night there in the USA then there is no issue, of course. But 2 nights ago we had 32 deg C (90 deg F nights!!)


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 1, 2011)

so far I'm only getting heat in the cooling fins on mine but its not much the tube seems to only be as warm as my hand You need copper tape 2100? I can send you some if you cant find any. I use the 3M stuff has great adheasive. what I do is wrap it around the ballast 1 full wrap then I clean the adheasive off with denatured alcohol all the way till the last inch this way you have good thermal conductivity through most of it the tape. It has a backing on it so you can pre measure the lenth by wrapping it and test fitting it before you remove the backing the adheasive is strong but very thin. 

Joe


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## 2100 (Apr 1, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> so far I'm only getting heat in the cooling fins on mine but its not much the tube seems to only be as warm as my hand You need copper tape 2100? I can send you some if you cant find any. I use the 3M stuff has great adheasive. what I do is wrap it around the ballast 1 full wrap then I clean the adheasive off with denatured alcohol all the way till the last inch this way you have good thermal conductivity through most of it the tape. It has a backing on it so you can pre measure the lenth by wrapping it and test fitting it before you remove the backing the adheasive is strong but very thin.
> Joe


 
Thanks for the offer I appreciate it, but I'm happy with aluminum foil + CPU thermal compound.


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 2, 2011)

cool glad you have something I looked at that Ballast Mod some time back very nice. 

Joe


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## 2100 (Apr 4, 2011)

Good news, my new 65W ballast arrived, it is the same 5000K colour temp and the brightness is exactly the same (and I do mean exactly) as my first 65W ballast. 

Shooting these 2 lights together with the left and right hand at a building 1000-1200m away, no joke.


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 4, 2011)

Awesome cant wait for some shots may just go ahead and order the 65
I posted some beam shots outside of the X6 today if your still wanting to see how it stacks up the other lights used DBS 2.5A XM-L and 50W ebay hid to compare. Your gonna like the X6.


Joe


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## brandocommando (Apr 5, 2011)

2100 said:


> Good news, my new 65W ballast arrived, it is the same 5000K colour temp and the brightness is exactly the same (and I do mean exactly) as my first 65W ballast.
> 
> Shooting these 2 lights together with the left and right hand at a building 1000-1200m away, no joke.


 
I was IM'ing with Leo Liu earlier today and he said that the 65W's are all 6000K. 2100, I was wondering if your 65W ballasts actually say 5000K on them somewhere or if that is your conclusion based on comparison to your other 6000K lights? (I can see the difference in your pictures but I was just wondering.) Also, we _were_ talking about the new model with the 7800mah battery pack if that makes a difference.
He was very good to deal with, and the new 65W 7800mah model is $172.20 USD shipped to the U.S.A. I am going to get my first HID flashlight soon and it is a tough decision between this and the 35W MOZO. I do like how the Ali light has an adjustable focus though. I know.... I should probabally just buy both!


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## 2100 (Apr 5, 2011)

Brandocommando, I work as a wedding photographer so its based on guesstimation, so hopefully I am not wrong even though it can be viewed as an expert opinion but you know photography shd be viewed as an art rather than from a technical asepct. LOL! I have a known Amondotech 3152 @ 4300K, will take some pictures with WB set manually at 4300K and 5000K and try to find out the colour temp of the bulbs. Manually set, it shd appear as so-called "white" on my calibrated S-IPS monitor. 
The 2 x 65W ballasts are very consistent in WB and intensity - no diff. 

It doesn't matter with the 6600/7800mah models, they are just batt packs and probably just slot it into the nice aluminum carrying briefcase before shipping.
6000K is based on the specs. A lot of the aliexpress specs are somewhat wrong - so have to bite the bullet somehow and find out. (that's why we have a nice forum here!  ).


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## brandocommando (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks 2100!! And BTW, I did tell Leo that the "Singaporean guy" sent me. :laughing:


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## 2100 (Apr 5, 2011)

I ran the new bulb in a little while, seems like it is very slightly more bluish. Yes the 1st one is approx 5000K, the second one is approx 5300K? On my monitor, it is not 6000K. Actually found out that my Amondotech is like below 4000K even actually. (compared to 840, 4100K) I have some Philips 830 CDM-Tm HIDs (3000K), 20W HIDs, the new very small HID bulb, for my home lighting. I also have XM-L for comparison, i am happy to have won the XM-L lottery, the emitter does not have a green tinge.....actually one of the new 65W ballast have a very very slight green hue. 

Rotate the bulb around, the colour temp/hue would change quite a bit. Let it heat up a bit, no issue. That's the fun thing about HID, you need to heat it up, you can rotate it for different colour temps, darn ballast has a strange buzzing noise etc.


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## 2100 (Apr 5, 2011)

brandocommando said:


> I I am going to get my first HID flashlight soon and it is a tough decision between this and the 35W MOZO. I do like how the Ali light has an adjustable focus though. I know.... I should probabally just buy both!


 
Do note that the adjustable focus still would not focus quite a bit the light into a tight hotspot. It is no Trustfire X6 or Olight SR90 and definitely far from a LED + aspheric. But if you do appreciate a slightly floodier spotlight for closer range work (eg below 300m esp below 100m) and you need PURE HIGH LUMENS (eg for hitting trees as they suck up light pretty well), this would be great. 

PS. I would not recommend getting the 7800mah batt option, as the light does run hot and I can hardly see anyone using this for more than 30 mins at one go due to the main tube + batteries heating up during your hot summer nights. With the 6600mah, it can do ~ 75 mins @ 65W mode. If its winter time probably there isn't an issue. So save yourself about $16 and use the money to get a Ultrafire C8 XM-L if you don't have any LEDs. Then you will get the lower output needs covered.


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## ktmsm (Jan 1, 2012)

*​*


Throwjunkie said:


> OK I see some info has been posted I'm posting some pics of mine Battery contacts on Battery
> Ballast contacts




I have a question to ask regarding this ballast on the picture,

I have got mine with 24W bulb a week ago and tried to put it on a test run about an hour ago, and almost ended up in electrocution.
I know that this ballast is made to be used in a premade container and everything, but for the love of god there should be some note on it about presence of HIGH VOLTAGE on the aluminium ballast case... damn... I even now fel some slight pain in my torso area from the shock as I accidentally touched ballast case while it was turned on.

But that's not why I'm writing this.

I wanted to know whether any of you with this ballasts have ever had any problems in the form of - xenon bulb starts to repetitevly flicker (blink) in about 15-20 seconds upon turning on, accompained by sparking sound coming comming from either the ballast or the bulb itself? It's almost as if there some crack opens in bulb as it gets somewhat warmer in these 15-20sec upon turning on, and then as if high voltage slips out of the bulb, causing loud spark noise although with no additional visual efects other than it is clearli visible that whole bulb goes off, and on...and off...and on.... in a constant intervals of about 5 spark noises per second... 

I'm driving my balast off the 12V car accu and even tried computer PSU - effect is the same. Tried changing conectors between ballast and power source as I have read on the forums that people are having "flickering" problems in their cars - but I figured it out it has to do with something else than conection - and obviously it is something other...

Next thing I'm gonna do is to write a reclamation letter to the online shop where I bought it, but wanted to know if any of you had that problem and what was the cause and how did sou solved it?

Thanks for any info.

Cheers


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