# (FAILED) Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...



## ViReN (Jan 10, 2006)

This is a dream attempt to make a Regulated AAA Luxeon I Light with a decent runtime.

Raw Materials:
Body: $2 (Bare Al)
LED: $3 (Luxeon I)
Switch: $.5 (Clicky/Tactical)
Optic: $1 (Custom,Acrilic)
Regulator (LDO): $1
Assembly: $2.5 (Misc Costs + Profit)
--------------------------
Total: $10

Extra: Li-Ion AAA Rechargable (350 mAH) + Nano Charger (AW's Cells)

The LDO to be setup to run a Luxeon I at about 70 mA (near Max Luminous Efficiency Point)

Runtime: (350mAH/70mA) * .8 (LDO Efficiency) = 4 Hours (realistic)

...i dream to build about 100 initially and then later on up to 500 per run... 

Does it sound like a realistic dream???

Let's think about this seriously... comments & feedback welcome

EDIT: please read this post... https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1269093&postcount=150


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## easilyled (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I'm in - for about 5 of them!!

Especially if they are mag. solitaire sized.

That would be a brilliant deal.


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## Robban (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

If the size was kept very small I'd be interested in a couple. If I was able to drive it at higher currents aswell that would be even better. I'd gladly sacrifice a bit of runtime for brightness. Two stage?


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## paulr (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

If you mean the Willie Hunt LDO regulator, it's a buck regulator and is for incandescent bulbs only.

Relying on a li ion battery (and its charging system, more $$) defeats the notion of a $10 light. So I'd say use 2x123, lets you use a UK eLED-like buck regulator with no inductor, with high efficiency and flat output. Or it might be interesting to use a 9 volt battery. With 75 ma from the battery you could put 200 ma through the led, giving pretty good brightness and runtime.


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## LEDninja (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Are you sure AAA Nanos are still available? They seem to have disappeared from both the dealers & modders sub-forums.


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## AW (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



LEDninja said:


> Are you sure AAA Nanos are still available? They seem to have disappeared from both the dealers & modders dub-forums.


 
The AAA Nano chargers are back in stock..... here.


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## Phaserburn (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



paulr said:


> If you mean the Willie Hunt LDO regulator, it's a buck regulator and is for incandescent bulbs only.


 
Not saying the Willie Hunt regulator is a cost effective or space saving idea here, but it should be able to be used by leds. I have a Black Diamond Vectra IQ headlamp that uses one, and it has 3 regulated levels for both the incan lamp *and* the leds. I'm pretty sure both the incan and leds are both hooked up to it. It's a buck regulator, yes, but the 3.7V output would be no problem for 5mm leds or a luxeon. I use nimh in mine to increase the current available at 3.7V for a brighter incan lamp than stock.


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## Gransee (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Viren, your costs will be a higher but I believe you can do it. And when you do, I would like to buy one.

Hopefully, you will make them in the USA.

Peter


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## Steve K (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



Phaserburn said:


> Not saying the Willie Hunt regulator is a cost effective or space saving idea here, but it should be able to be used by leds. I have a Black Diamond Vectra IQ headlamp that uses one, and it has 3 regulated levels for both the incan lamp *and* the leds. I'm pretty sure both the incan and leds are both hooked up to it. It's a buck regulator, yes, but the 3.7V output would be no problem for 5mm leds or a luxeon.




The regulator designs that I've seen from Willie were not buck regulators. They were pwm regulators designed solely for use with incandescents, and are designed to put a fixed amount of power into a resistive load. Definitely not suitable for a LED.

For that matter, a voltage regulator isn't suited for leds either. A current regulator is the appropriate type. The has been discussed numerous times the the electronics area of the forum.

Steve K.


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## ViReN (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



Gransee said:


> Viren, your costs will be a higher but I believe you can do it. And when you do, I would like to buy one.
> 
> Hopefully, you will make them in the USA.
> 
> Peter



I wish, they could be built in USA, for building them in USA the cost will simply be triple (in terms of Labour, Machining etc....)

This is my first attempt to think of some thing seriously....

Currently searching Global Sources (mainly in China) to manufacture some small quantity of bodies with Maximum Quality Control ... 

I am thinking of following steps
1) Get (Proto) Body Built First and build a "Proof of Concept"
2) Build a Minor Run (may be 10 - 20) and distribute for "Testing"
3) If all goes ok, do a small run of 100
4) Fix a time line after the first 100 build and response.

dont know if i am on a right path yet....


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## ViReN (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

paulr: it's a simple LDO regulator (not buck one) ....

I m planning for R**J or R**H bin's for this light...


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## Phaserburn (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



Steve K said:


> For that matter, a voltage regulator isn't suited for leds either. A current regulator is the appropriate type. The has been discussed numerous times the the electronics area of the forum.


 
There are a good number of lights that use voltage regulators with leds. The Arc AAA comes to mind, among others. Current regulation is better with leds, but voltage regulation is certainly useable. I'm not sure if the BD Vectra IQ is using a Willie Hunt job, but I'm pretty sure it is.


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## paulr (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

OK, maybe I misused the term "buck regulator" to mean any regulator whose input voltage is higher than the rms voltage seen by the load. 

Now it looks like you're planning to attempt offshore manufacturing in high volume. I'm not sure you know what you're getting into. Why don't you just talk to whoever is making the Xnova/Ghost/similar lights, and suggest they make a Luxeon light?

I was going to say something about the UK 4AA eLED which was $20 at Brightguy til recently, but it's now up to $25.95.


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## ViReN (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

paulr, Yes it is more or less of same idea. to request some manufacturer to make similar light (hopefully with the cost constrains)... may be i email dae with the requirements.

The size of this light would be similar to Arc / Peak Pocket series, (space savings in not having space hungry components like inductor etc)

The Beam patern will be not a thrower but a genral purpose close work up light... (may be an simple polished aluminium reflector instead of optics could also do) ....

keeping open on options....


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## carrot (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

If it works out, l'd be interested in at least one... but it sounds like it might cost more when you factor in labor... what about heatsinking? Will you use Chemkote?


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## ViReN (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

at 70 mA to Luxeon I there wont be enough heat generated ... so there is no need for any heat sink...


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## DCFluX (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I'd be intrested in doing the electronic design, if you handle the reflector and case.


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## ViReN (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

DCFluX: It would b great thing to do... Please remember, this will be a Light light for benifit of people here on CPF & others too... 

You are welcome to propose electronic design... .. remember the cost constraint on the design of LDO Regulator... 

I am thinking of a simple LDO setup with a Resistor controling LDO in Current Mode to 65 - 70 mA

All things including the LED will be on Single PCB, single sided, Other side will be used as a +ve contact for the Battery.


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## jsr (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I'm a newbie, so please pardon my ignorance, but I've read everywhere on the forums that Lux1's are ideally driven at 350mA. Is 70mA considerably underdriving the LED?
Thanks.


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## ViReN (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

yes jsr, its a tradeoff to have a long runtime and enough brightness ( please remember that it will be far more than a 5 mm LED running on 50 mA) for instance a Nichia LED being run at 50 mA Overdrive...

Luxeon I at 60 - 70 mA should give a compromise of near Highest Lumens per watt readings and efficiency in terms of light output...


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## jsr (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Thanks ViReN! I was looking to mod a 0.5W Nuwai to be brighter and was looking to use a Lux1. I'll post another thread about that, but I'd appreciate it if you could add any info to that post also.

I'd definitely be interested in your light when it happens. Maybe offer an HA3 version at additional cost.


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## Sengoku (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Excellent idea viren, i believe you can do it. 
Heres my own modded Arc AAA clone









VS solitaire







Cost:
AAA Light $6
RXOH $6

total $12

thats it! i basically used the stock convertor to run the luxeon at 75mA, 220mA current draw. Drilled out hole for luxeon, the reflector has already got a very nice nickel plating on it. you get a nice bright flood with smooth hotspot. slightly more overall lumen output than my Arc AAA-P.


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## greenLED (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

a polished parabolic reflector would be nice to give a tad of throw (w/ obvious limits due to size of reflector)


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## ViReN (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Wow Sengoku.. thats an excellent idea...

it looks like the "Reflector" itself will be sufficient to make a soft flood... 

and there is no need of any special "Optic"

Keep suggesitons comming ....


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## DCFluX (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

What diameter would you like the lightboard to be?

So far for converters I have a couple ideas.

Design A: (Project AA, FatBoy)
Current Regulating SMPS

Pros: 
It can be easily adapted to run in the dual brightness 350/70mA modes like some one suggested, but would require either a dual position switch, a solder blob on the board or it can drop to 70mA automaticly on low battey conditions.
Can run on a single 1.2-1.5V AAA Alkaline or NiMH, no need for a 3 - 3.7V Lithium or Li-Ion.
Has ran a 1W luxeon at 350mA for 24hours on a single C cell, then ran an additional 24 at 70mA.
Can be built slightly smaller in diameter then the Mag AA, including pads for 3 different styles of 1W LEDs.

Cons:
The chip it's self is going to be $2.10 in 1000 piece qty. Adding the coil and support parts would bring the regulator to the $3.50 range not including PCB.


Design B: (Experimental Prototype)

Voltage Regulating SMPS, Fixed 3.3V output

Pros:
None really.

Cons:
Only saves about $0.25 over design A
No auto/manual current select feature.

Design C: (Project Solitare)
Voltage Regulating SMPS, Fixed 3.3V output 

Pros:
Uses smaller coil so it can fit in a space about the diameter of a Mag Solitare (Not Including LED, Which may have to "Stradle" the converter board) Has ran 1 3mm LED at 35mA for 40 hours plus on a single AAA
Reverse polarity protection

Cons:
Only saves about $1.00 over design A
Only can sustain 125mA of LED power and has not been tested at 70mA of current draw


Design D: (Abandoned Prototype)
Free Run Boost, ??? V ??? mA, Various. 

Pros: 
3 transistors 2 caps, 5 resistors and a coil can be built for about a buck.
Still runs on a single AAA.
Can drive 3 5mm LEDs at 60mA average for about 50 hours on a AA cell.
Did I mention cheap? about the most expensive part is the coil. can be built for under a dollar.

Cons:
"Self regulating" LEDs isn't exactly regulating them, but works somewhat.
Needs a big coil in the 220uH range


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## greenLED (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Yup, no need for optic. If the metal reflector is just a cone, you'll get a beautifully smooth flood beam. I'd still like someone to popularize parabolic reflectors on small lights like the one we're discussing. If you're machining the thing from scratch, I'm guessing it shouldn't be that difficult (make a parabolic cutting(drilling tip?? -no clue about machining). Anyway, that'd give it a bit more concentrated hotspot (no need to throw 100m, but if this is to go in your keychain it'd help to reduce "washout" when used outside around street lights.


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## ViReN (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

how about a common regulator IC LM327 (or something similar) with just 2 external resistors running in Current Regulating mode  

i have been thinking on those lines... keeping things as simple as possible... this may not be best performing light in terms of efficiency ... but ability of reusable Li-Ion Power for up to 4 hours with regulation and a Arc/Peak AAA size form factor ... is what the idea...

I am thinking of talking to USA Manufacturers but i am sure the cost will rise atleast by 50% to $15 .... but at the same time if it is a $15 USA Built Light.... people would prefer that instead of being manufactured some other places.

I am also thinking of meeting some local (in Oman) Engineering workshops for a small run on CNC's ... 

HA will definately add to the cost... so i am keeping it out of the picture at this moment. may be in future come up with different "models" / "options" of the same light to suite different needs ... and that might be an additional cost...... however the base light would cost about $9 to $10 .... and that's what my aim is....


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## DCFluX (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Even with a 3.7V Li-Ion a linear style current regulator will not work as it usually requires 3 to 4 volts of headroom over the target voltage. A LM317 would only require 1 external component, for 70mA a 18 ohm 1W resistor, but need 6-7 volts of supply to operate. Plus it is not effiecent getting 40 to 50% at these voltages.


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## greenLED (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

HA's overrated. Nice to have, yes, but overrated. My wife destroys every other light I give her (don't know how she manages... anyway), and the Soli I gave her before we were married is still looking good (scratched, yes, but it's not horrible by any means).


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## JJohn (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

My dream is a two stage AAA light that has a 2-4 Hr High level and a 10-24 hour low (eyes dark adapted) level. It also has to be small enough to almost disappear in a pocket and use commonly available primary batteries.

Good luck on this project. I think your cost estimates are a bit low (30% or so) due to optimistic costs on the parts you are considering and the fact that there are other minor costs that will add-up (foam washer, clip, etc). Still a $20 light would be great. People, including me, would line up for one of these. 

PS - I would gladly pay 4 (or more) times as much for my dream AAA.

John


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## evan9162 (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



DCFluX said:


> Even with a 3.7V Li-Ion a linear style current regulator will not work as it usually requires 3 to 4 volts of headroom over the target voltage. A LM317 would only require 1 external component, for 70mA a 18 ohm 1W resistor, but need 6-7 volts of supply to operate. Plus it is not effiecent getting 40 to 50% at these voltages.



It's very simple to build a linear regulator that only needs 0.1V of headroom.


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## jsr (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Why don't you guys use LED drivers from On, National, or Philips? These are constant current drivers with a wide input voltage range. Vout adjusts to whatever the VF is at the drive current and any difference in Vin to Vout is dissipated across the driver. These seem like a better choice than a voltage regulator. Tho, they don't seem to be able to boost the output voltage.

Also, for the current regulators many are using (for both custom and the actual manufacturers), how are they designed? Are they voltage regulators with an external sense resistor that still controls via a feedback voltage? Are they current mirrors? I was looking to design my own current regulator, but not sure what the norm design is and I'm curious to know.
For a voltage regulator, I'd rather just buy one. But since the LED drivers are available, those seem like the best option and are fairly small (such as SO-8).


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## nikon (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



Steve K said:


> The regulator designs that I've seen from Willie were not buck regulators. They were pwm regulators designed solely for use with incandescents, and are designed to put a fixed amount of power into a resistive load. Definitely not suitable for a LED.
> 
> For that matter, a voltage regulator isn't suited for leds either. A current regulator is the appropriate type. The has been discussed numerous times the the electronics area of the forum.
> 
> Steve K.


 

I've been using the Willie Hunt-designed BCS PowerStik 4AA/2D PWM regulated battery holder with a Lux 1. It runs at 3.5v./375mA. Am I causing a problem for the Luxeon?


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## DCFluX (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

You are probably thinking of a Zener diode as a voltage regulator, not a current source. Plus the effieceny would change as battery voltage changes, so you can waste up to 50mW in a 210mW system. And the zener diode has to be picked according to the LED voltage for 70mA which wouldn't be a problem except that zeners are only avalible in limited voltages.



I have to test some theories, but at lunch I was thinking...

Design E:

PWM Regulation (Concept)

Pros:
$1.00 for IC and maybe $0.50 for support parts, Using Digikey pricing in 100 piece qty.
Can be about 95%-97% effiecent
Can allow different brightness modes without the use of multiple buttons

Cons:
Requires 3.7V worth of battery. Ceases to function when battery voltage falls below LEDs voltage. 
Only upto 80mA of peak current without additional external components.

I don't like this idea as I would prefer to use standard off the shelf batteries. Which is why I no longer carry a CR123 based flashlite. If the batteries go dead I know that I can find a AAA alkaline in any convience store in the country.


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## DCFluX (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



jsr said:


> Why don't you guys use LED drivers from On, National, or Philips?



Cost.

Design A uses a Linear Technology Part
Design B and C use Maxim-IC
Design D uses common parts avalible for $100 a metric tonne.


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## jsr (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

An On Semi NUD4001 is $0.45 directly from On for a 2500pc reel. Price is likely cheaper from distributors and you can probably get broken reels. This particular LED driver also doesn't require any external components aside from resistor, minimizing costs. This LED driver can't boost voltage, but there may be others that can (and will likely require an external inductor), but I haven't looked much into all the various drivers.

Anyone know what current regulator designs are used in flashlights?


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## greenLED (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

jsr, min Vin is 5V for that part, though...


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## DCFluX (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Who will settle for a $15 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light that uses a single Alkaline or NiMH and runs with optional brightness levels and hard anodizing?


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## jsr (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Yeah, I mentioned the On LED driver can't boost voltage, but I've only looked at On's offerings thus far. I'm not sure if other companies offer an LED driver that can boost voltage also.

I'm just trying to find out more about the regulator designs used for flashlights. Many mention "current regulators" so I'm curious to know how they're designed...if they're true current regulators or just voltage regulators with a resistor.

Also, for those regulators using PWM, what's the source for the modulation signal?

Thanks for helping a newbie understand.


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## Sigman (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*


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## Brighteyez (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Your listing of COGs would be more representative of a $50-70 light than a $10 light. If you want to build a light that would retail for $10, your raw materials is probably going to have to be closer to about $1.25.



ViReN said:


> This is a dream attempt to make a Regulated AAA Luxeon I Light with a decent runtime.
> 
> Raw Materials:
> Body: $2 (Bare Al)
> ...


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## glire (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Great project!

It could be a Fenix L0P like flashlight without the 'luxurious' parts and finish (and brand).


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## AW (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

ViREN,

If you are planning to run the Lux I to spec. at 350mA, the AMC7135 chip is your solution. This is a LDO driver with no external component needed. Cost is within your $1 range. It'll work on a single LiIon battery.


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## kubolaw (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Wow, that AMC7135 chip looks great! Do you think it can be purchased at retail anywhere?


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## greenLED (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

just ordered a sample :devil:

the data sheet says it'll take 0.3V min, but 3 is optimum :devil:


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## DCFluX (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I have never heard of this company. 

Cons: 
It is at a fixed 350mA, not the target of 70.
Requires heat sink when used over 700mW of disipation
You may have avaliblity issues.


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## mpk (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Anyone know the efficiency of the AMC7135? Is it a linear device?


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## Kiu (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

It's possible but in mass production. I think you have hit the Fenix L0P's production cost.
I am in if you sell it at lower than $25 when you made it. hehe.


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## ViReN (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Wow! What an overwhelming response. I thank everyone for taking active part and providing valuable inputs.

evan9162: Could you please suggest a suitable linear LDO that will meet the requirements? LM317 might not be suitable I feel, but not sure. I am trying to log on to national.com and use the Power Management tools there to meet the requirements, but it shows so many products which makes me some what confused.

AW: AMC7135 is an amazing option to work without any external components. The only disadvantage I feel is that it will be running Luxon at 350 mA. Is there any alternative components that will run at let’s say 60mA or 70 mA. I see that AMC7135 could be very useful for a 750 mAH Protected AA and R CR123 lights with almost 2 hours of good & regulated runtime.

GreenLED: I look forward for your test results with the AMC7135 samples.

Brighteyez: I am somewhat confused; if your figures are correct then, do you mean to say that fenix L1P is being manufactured at less than $1 and being sold at $50? (i dont think so)... In a “real world” situation is it really so? Sorry but I am a total newbie when it comes to manufacturing some thing. This light is my first attempt.

DCFluX: Design E sounds very interesting, PWM with max of 80mA ?? what would be the duty cycle and let’s say we PWM LED with 70mA with maximum permissible “ON” time, how much will it look dim to eyes as compared with constant current at 70 mA. The advantage of PWM I see is very very long runtime at 70 mA Pulses, but unsure about the effective brightness. I am still not considering running the light with a standard AAA cell. The concept for this light is that you are not needed to buy more batteries once the initial investment of additional couple of bucks is done. Li-Ion’s have an advantage of very suitable voltage to run LED without any complex electronics apart from being a reusable energy source.

Sigman:  No Paypal at this moment. Not untill everything is ready to ship


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## DCFluX (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

What good is a $10 flashlite when you have to invest $20-$40 in a battery and charging system?

Anyway...

Some Design E Details:

A microontroller would pulse the LED for a predetermined amount of time to average out the current allowed. The circuit would do some math based on a few known variables of the LED and some run time variables of the voltage supplied and use some intelegence to figure out what the on time should be to aveage out the peak current to the target current. The 80mA comes from the micros ability to source current, which is not going to be enough so I have some leads on a low cost FET to use.

This method is employed in the on another project to regulate LED current from a fixed voltage with out wasting power in a bias resistor. For example driving a 3 series red LED at 5.8V from a 12.0 volt supply would be close to a 50% duty cycle.

Or it could look at the voltage drop of a current shunt resistor to determine what the on time should be, providing non-LED dependence and no extra programing at build time, but would require more complicated firmware.

The microcontroller can rember what it did last, so it does something else on the next power up cycle. Meaning click once you get 350mA, Click again it is 70mA. This method is used in another project as well.

This design would require a purchace of the programing socket for SOIC-8 in order to get the firmware on to the chip before assembly. It is possible to allow for in circuit programing but would require a plug assembly which raises the cost and takes up space.


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## jclarksnakes (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Viren,

....It seems to me that it will be difficult for you to produce a regulated Luxeon light that you can sell for $10. I commend you for trying. Many of us have already ordered the new Fenix L0P. If you make a light that is not nearly as bright as the L0P and not as well finished as the L0P and that does not have the quality and reliability that I suspect the L0P will have you will find very few customers here. On the other hand if your light can match or exceed the L0P on light output and/or impression of quality you will likely have lots of eager buyers here even if you have to charge $20 for it.
Good luck,
Jc


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## GJW (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



greenLED said:


> I'd still like someone to popularize parabolic reflectors on small lights like the one we're discussing. If you're machining the thing from scratch, I'm guessing it shouldn't be that difficult (make a parabolic cutting(drilling tip?? -no clue about machining). Anyway, that'd give it a bit more concentrated hotspot (no need to throw 100m, but if this is to go in your keychain it'd help to reduce "washout" when used outside around street lights.



If you haven't seen AWR's Nano it uses exactly this design and the beam is the finest I've seen in an Arc/Peak sized light.
I've used dish reflectors, cone reflectors, cut down optics, ball lenses......
The parabola on the Nano beats them all.
Well-focused hotspot with usable throw and smooth even flood.


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## ViReN (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Let me Quote AW's Post here about cost of Li-Ion AAA + Charger .. read the bold in quote.



AW said:


> This is a package deal for the Nano AAA LiLon Charger with two 320mAH 3.7V 10440 AAA batteries. This AAA charger is made by the same Nano R123 manufacturer and carries the same sleek, mini design. It works on a worldwide voltage from 100 - 240V and with its foldable flat bi-pin plug, there is no wires required. The LED indicator turns from red to green indicating a full charge. Now this *package including two 320mAH 3.7V 10440 AAA LiLon batteries is available for $15 per set ( Worldwide shipping included ).*
> 
> PP address : [email protected]



jclarksnakes: This light is not a fenix L0P Compitetor and no way related to it. my objective here is to make a affordable, long lasting and with negligible recurring cost (of additional AAA cells per hour)... 

Fenix L0P may be a great light .. but does not suite my pocket ($$$) & Light requirements.

Choosing Li-Ion AAA will offer 4 Hours of decent light per charge ...


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## Foxx510 (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I would like to see what these AAA liions do under short circuit conditions before I stick one in my pocket. I was going to make an EDC solitare mod using one, but now I am concerned about the safety aspect. I intended to do some testing at some stage, but havent had time yet. Just something to consider, I may be being overly cautious. Good luck with the design.

Adam


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## ViReN (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Foxx510: Do you use a Mobile Phone? if yes, and if you keep in your upper pocket (close to heart) then you should be more concerned as compared to AAA Li-Ion in your pocket... as Mobiles also use Li-Ion batteries ...  and they have much more dangerous as compared to AAA Li-Ion


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## glire (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Look here
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96178
(links to pictures are broken unfortunatly)

Given the (one time) selling price of these flashlights in Europe, after custom taxes, VAT, shipping (from China) and distributor marging, they must have a very low manufacturing cost.
For example, the manufacturing costs of Aurora 2xAA should be (well) below $10 IMO. It is reviewed at http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/aurora_alj-012aa.htm.

I think all these flashlights are made by the same manufacturer (the same which also makes Nuwai and probably many other brands). You should contact it.
The AAA keychain can be used as a starting point for your project.
Here is a picture http://emilionworkshop.com/oscommerce/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=80



(sorry Emil, anyone can take your pictures  )

This is feasible, I'm sure. But you will need probably to make thousands, not hundreds, to break the price and absorb initial investment. The first tens prototypes will cost a lot.


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## Foxx510 (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



ViReN said:


> Foxx510: Do you use a Mobile Phone? if yes, and if you keep in your upper pocket (close to heart) then you should be more concerned as compared to AAA Li-Ion in your pocket... as Mobiles also use Li-Ion batteries ...  and they have much more dangerous as compared to AAA Li-Ion



Sure do! I guess I am thinking about the metalic casing, and the unprotected/unfused cell. Seems like it would possible(unlikely, i know) for a short to occur. I think cell phone batteries use protection circuits, and generally are surrounded in plastic rather than metal. Anyway, as I said, I am probably being paranoid, so don't take too much notice! 

All the best
Adam


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## ViReN (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

glire: great inputs...thanks... i am still thinking about the list of manufacturers to be contacted across the globe.... it would be like a dream for me if some one in USA agrees to manufacture with this low cost... 


Adam:  please do not take it personally. It would be a great thing to have a Protected cell but there is no protected AAA cell available in market for a low cost.

In Mobiles, sure there is a protection circuit in the battery itself. and cellphone is usually made up of plastic .... however in case of flashlight, we have aluminium casing .... so it should have some slight advantage ...

and lastly, if something has to go wrong.. it will ... be it flashlight or the mobile phone (as we have already seen) that the light and mobiles can explode ... given critical conditions.''


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## AW (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



ViReN said:


> It would be a great thing to have a Protected cell but there is no protected AAA cell available in market


 
How about protected RCR2 ? A bit bigger in diameter but shorter in length with 10% more capacity.


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## ViReN (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

thanks AW, I was not aware about the Protected RCR2 being available... however, its a good idea .. but then other things will change a lot.... 

i would like to stick to AAA cell only... especially with the less diameter... will make the light like an invisible thingy


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## DCFluX (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I'm in. I'll get working on a schematic and parts list and wirewrap a prototype so the software can be written.

I woluld like to see a version that is AA or CR-123 as that battery is the commonest of the lithiums on the market and can be picked up in any Radio Shack and most Wallmarts.


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## ViReN (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

DCFluX: thank you very much for the interest... but, dont you think having a microcontroller in a $10 light will make it a complex light ... and the price could rise... considerably.

I request you to start a new thread for the new design posibilities on electronics that can be used in this light as well as other lights with AAA, AA, CR123 and CR2 cells.

a light with a microcontroller will be atleast $20 - $30 (especially when we talk of programming and interface) ... please suggest if i am wrong here... 

Once the simple $10 light is done, we will sure think of possibilities with a AAA with a Microcontroller and the dimming and various modes.

I hope i have not offended you ...


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## DCFluX (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I think we can bring it in fairly cheap...

In Qtys of 100 through distributors:

Microcontroller: $0.75
FET: $0.36
Capacitors: $.064
Resistor: $.037

Total (not including PCB):
$1.21

Double that price for single qtys.


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## DallasA (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Hi Guys:

This was brought to my attention and I was asked if I could help or offer some assistance on this project.

I am willing to help you guys on this project in what I am able to do and help you guys by volunteering sometime and thoughts on the topic.

First do I think you guys can make this happen? You bet, in fact I think you guys as a collective community can do a lot more form this project.

However the original estimated cost are some what low, however I will be more then willing to help research and utilize all the possibilities to make this happen.

A few things that needs to first be addressed ( IMHO )

1)	People to sign up to volunteer in assisting on this
2)	Those people chose the base concept of what you guys want to achieve.
3)	A Break down of teams , on each aspect of the unit. 
4)	List of break down of components and parts for this project.
5)	Research of suppliers.
6)	Sign up for final product unit

I will first offer some thought that needs to also be taken into consideration. Remember that suppliers require minimum information and qty before they will even give it a second thought. So we will also need to look at the construction aspect of the unit as well.

Next when taking the parts into consideration also factor in freight and other charges like waist, programming, set up, and so forth.

Remember you will have a waist cost or inventory cost to consume as well when it comes to the fact that in some cases to get your cost low enough, therefore you need to have a strategy on how you will be able to recover those cost not absorbed into this project.

If you guys would like my assistance further, please let me know I will be more then happy to help.

Cheers to the future AAA 1w made by CPF Family


MJ


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## jsr (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

There are a quite a few simple voltage regulators that can suit your current requirements. For the price of the light, more advanced controls may not be justified. A simple LDO or linear regulator may not be the most efficient, but it will work fine to make very good use of the battery life.
When I have some time, I'll take a look into more regulators. On, National, Philips, and Fairchild have a lot of good regulators to pick from. I'll look for some simple ones w/o tons of pins and controls that will work with your voltage and current requirements. Running off an alkaline battery would be harder as many of the regulators that operate at 1.2-1.5V can't supply enough current for your needs. But if you use a 3.7V LiIon, there are many regulators that work at a Vin(min) = 2.7V.
I'm personally looking to modify some Nuwai 0.5W lights to provide similar performance to the Fenix L1 and L0. They're slightly larger form factor and no HA3 available, but I'd like to see if I can do it. If it requires a new regulator circuit, I'll try to make one, but I don't know where to source the PCBs.


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## ViReN (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

DCFluX, how much will be the total built cost of the circuit, the dia of the circuit should not exceed the dia of AAA Cell, and if possible, can we put it in the tail (with a small Switch.. n.o. switch) and the +ve will directly go to the LED Circuit being fed through LED (donno how to phraze it in words)

|---(-ve, Ground)---LED---(+ve)---|---(+ve)---Battery---(-ve)---|---Circuit-Switch---(Ground)---|

some thing of this sort.... is it possible?


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## DallasA (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



DCFluX said:


> I think we can bring it in fairly cheap...
> 
> In Qtys of 100 through distributors:
> 
> ...



you can get the PCB made in US for about $0.40 in qty. I would suggest looking out side the US you should be able to lower the cost but I am sure qty is going to be required. 

Need also to ask about set up fees and shipping cost. Need someone to design layout.


MJ


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## ViReN (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Wow MJ, thanks for a great response.

I feel that if you could support us, we can make this light built in USA, would you help us in building this light?

if this is being manufactured in USA, i am sure the cost will be on a higher side, but more people will be willing signup.

I am wondering if the DCFluX's (yet to be finalized) Circuit could be built in $2 (in qty of 100) how much would be the cost if Building & Assembling + a small manufacturer (benifit) margin + $1 per light CPF Benifit .... should total to $(??)

It would be an honour if Peak could help build this light.

I have following inputs to add
1) Lets build 3 Flavours of the light
a) bare bone 70 mA twisty Light (in bare Al and HAIII) , simple resistor set to drive Lux I at 70 mA from AW's AAA Li-Ion Cell (cheapest light)
b) microcontroller PWM regulated with tailswitch light (medium cost)
c) b+ hi-end with further UI options (premium light) with varing drive currents

as far as getting organized i suggest following,
1) Concept - ViReN
2) Manufacturer - Peak LED Solutions (if MJ says Yes)
3) Electronics (for simple LDO regulator) jsr??, ViReN??, ... ... (should discuss and offer others to test the design)
3) Electronics (for high end lights) DCFluX , ..., ... (should discuss and offer others to test the design)
4) Signup List - (some one needed to voulenteer for the list generation) - I will open a new signup thread once we finalize on the above roles


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## photo2000a (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

[ 
A few things that needs to first be addressed ( IMHO )

1)	People to sign up to volunteer in assisting on this
<<<i'll voleunteer to do what ever i can not sure whats needed in relation to my feeble skills but i offer , if there is a list of tasks or such that i can see what i am qualified for


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## ViReN (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Great photo2000a

I will start a special thread with 3 Options and make the poll results public (this will help you in knowing the people interested in various categories) CPFers will be requested to post the quantity in the response thread.


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## jsr (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I looked into some LDOs and as I was looking at them at the mfr's sites, the LED drivers just looked better. Since an LDO is voltage regulator, you'd need an external resistor to set the drive current needed. Most LDOs are also offered in standard logic output levels (i.e. 2.5V, 3.3V, 5V) that isn't ideal for an LED. Most boost or buck converters or step-up circuits would require either external capacitors or inductors, increasing cost and the need for more board space (countering the idea of a small PCB). I looked at several companies' LED drivers and this one from Fairchild looked the best for your application:

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FA%2FFAN5610.pdf

Many other LED drivers incorporate some sort of boost circuit, whether it's switched capacitor or inductor based and would require external passive elements. This one doesn't and pretty much doesn't need any external devices if you don't want it to. This LED driver has a Vin(min) = 2.7V, so no prob since you'll be using 3.7V batteries. The nice thing about this LED driver is that you can choose your current setup without the need of a PWM or analog control and is very flexible in its output current capability.
It provides 4 parallel drive channels each capable of 21mA. When doing the PCB, tie all 4 outputs together. Depending on the design you want, you can do any of the following:

84mA drive current - tie all 4 outputs together and tie INA and INB both to the switch (high when switch activated). Each output will provide 21mA.

56mA drive current - tie all 4 outputs together. Tie INA to GND. Tie INB to switch (battery +).

28mA drive current - tie all 4 outputs together. Tie INA to switch (battery +). Tie INB to GND.

63mA drive current - Tie 3 outputs together. Tie INA and INB to switch (battery +).

42mA drive current - Same as 63mA, but tie 2 outputs together.

28mA drive current - Tie 2 outputs together. Tie INA to GND. Tie INB to switch (battery +).

There's more output current options, and other ways to implement some of these (such as 28mA drive current, you can tie 3 outputs together, INA to battery +, and INB to GND). Many options and no external elements required.
Further control can be had with a PWM if you decide to do that later.

Email me if you want more info on this setup. The only issue I see is soldering of the package. It's a leadless package, but if you use careful control of solder paste, you should be able to solder it manually. If you're able to find an assembly house for this, it'll be easier and more consistent, but a bit higher cost.

I think this is the best option as it provides flexibility for now, more flexibility for later expansion, minimizes components needed, and simplifies the design. I can do a circuit shematic for you if you'd like in OrCAD, but I'll need to email it. Don't have an online thing to host pics.

HTH.


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## ViReN (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

kool jsr, it looks like this could be the prefect chip for a simple regulator setup (especialy after looking at the graphs) & efficiency 

Well done.


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## greenLED (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

been browsing the microbridge site; they have other chips that might work - few to no other components needed


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## Flying Turtle (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Great idea, ViReN. However, please don't get away from your original idea of this light running off normal alkaline or NiMH batteries. I've got to believe this is what most of us, and certainly the general public, would want. If it's technically feasible, I'd pay more for that ability.

Geoff


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## greg_in_canada (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I think hitting $10 will be hard. You basically have the $5 ebay (Arc clone) lights but have a $3 LED instead of a $0.10 one. $15 might be feasible.

Also, unless you force people to buy a minimum of 5 or 10 lights you will get burned out packing 100's of packages for a dollar or two profit each (unless you pad the shipping charge with a handling fee).

I'd probably buy one at any sub-$20 price.

I'd also put in a vote for Andrew Wynn's parabolic head/reflector. No need for an optic then and decent (flood) beam quality.

Just my opinion - Greg


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## cave dave (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

You seem to assume people will work for free and let you use their $30,000 CNC machine for free too.

Peak is making a Direct Drive RCR123 light and selling if for $90 with battery and charger. Why? because they need to make money to stay in business. The cost of an Item is not in the parts, its in the labor and capital investment. The cost of the parts are irrelevent in this case unless you are going to make thousands of units.

Viren, you should talk to JSB about his experinces with china manufacturing and how he lost his life savings, before you make this thread anything more than a thought exercise.


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## GarageBoy (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Wow the AMC7135 is the PERFECT chip for 2xAA lights or 1xCR123


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## DCFluX (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



ViReN said:


> DCFluX, how much will be the total built cost of the circuit, the dia of the circuit should not exceed the dia of AAA Cell, and if possible, can we put it in the tail (with a small Switch.. n.o. switch) and the +ve will directly go to the LED Circuit being fed through LED (donno how to phraze it in words)



1. depends on where the boards are made. Some can be had dirt cheap in this size like, .25 each, of course that requires you to buy 1000 at a time. I don't know the pricing of the China production PCBs, I leave that to the expence side of the company. 

2. I have to look in the layout editor, I know for sure I can fit it in the diameter of a AA. so for a AAA it may have to sit length wise and be a rectangular board, like in most laser pointers.

3. No, it has to sit in the head of the light as it is a paralell style circuit. About the only stuff that may work in a series topology is the a single resistor or current regulators such as the LM317 or that AMC7135.


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## ViReN (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Again thanks for inputs.
If this project have to be successful we must freeze on some things including timeline and price deadlines.

So, here is what I have decided.
1) We first make a barebones low cost light with following
---A) Luxeon I LED (Preferably RxxH or RxxJ bin) running at 60 mA - 70 mA
---B) with a simple Linear LDO current regulator
---C) with Lithium Ion AAA
---D) using a Peak 1AAA 1LED HAIII Body & twisty switch operation
---E) and Head modified with a Parabolic profile
---F) *all Made in USA*
---G) cost between $15 - $20 for the light without batteries
---H) additional $15 (shipped) for AW's set of 2 AAA Li-Ion & Nano Charger
---I) to be available to CPF by 18th March 2006 (currently just an estimateed target date) for a month
---J) quantity depends on poll results (100 to begin with), poll starts 12th January 2006, ends 12th Feb 2006
---K) light later on available to general public with offer similar to Peak CPF 2005 Special

2) We then make a more advanced mid cost light with following
---A) Luxeon I LED (Preferably RxxH or RxxJ bin) running at various mA
---B) with a PWM regulator
---C) with Lithium Ion AAA
---D) using a Peak 1AAA 1LED HAIII Body
---E) and Head modified with a Parabolic profile
---F) *all Made in USA*
---G) cost not yet decided... 
---H) additional $15 (shipped) for AW's set of 2 AAA Li-Ion & Nano Charger
---I) *Tailcap Switch (for UI)*
---J) availability date not yet fixed
---J) quantity depends on poll results, poll date not yet fixed
---K) light later on available to general public with offer similar to Peak CPF 2005 Special

I am ruling out the posibility of using a standard AAA batteries at this time for following reasons
1) Alkalines are not up to the mark and do not have enough capacities IV Delivering capacities, users are required to buy new batteries every now and then, waste of matter and not too environment friendly
2) NiMH batteries though have slight advantage, but it's voltage is 1.2 V and LED would require 3.3 - 3.6 V steping up voltage 3 times at such low voltage levels in not economical both technically and financially, efficiencies will be of the order of 50 - 60% and thus we loose more energy in just converting the voltage.

Choice of Li-Ion AAA is a natural one as it offers following advantages
1) Higher energy density
2) Perfect voltage for driving LED
3) Less and simple electronics required to drive LED's


If it is not possible in any way to make the base light below $20, the essence of this project is lost and i would request moderators to close discussion of this thread and the poll thread. I wont have any regrets, atleast I tried.

I requst MJ to confirm if it is possible to make the base light below $20.


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## Robocop (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I would like to add a few questions here if I can....Does anyone know what that E-Bay AAA circuit runs a luxeon at and would it be maybe possible to simply use a similiar set up? Fot the total cost of that E-Bay light you could maybe simply use that light as a host and add a luxeon.

Also I feel this may get out of hand with the continued addition of un-necessary features and options. I think the original point was to make a bare bones AAA luxeon light that just produces light. I do believe many would jump all over a cheap AAA luxeon simply for the novelty of the light. I dont think it would really have to have a micro controller or even use regulation as long as it was simple and just made light.

I really did like the threads regarding the AWR Nano and that is a very nice set up. That poor guy started out with that project and before long it snow balled into a monster. He made a great light however I do feel as if Andrew really did not know the effort involved...man he is working on those things like crazy and something keeps popping up every day. I realize this is 2 different lights however we would be at the mercy of various parts suppliers
and most likely at the mercy of various types of shipping.

I like the concept and the idea of a CPF joint project and I would help any way possible. I think it would most likely be a reality if the entire process was kept as simple and localized as possible. Arrange a bulk purchase on parts from one maker if possible thus my mention of the E-Bay dealer above. Maybe we could arrange for a discount purchase of many of their AAA lights minus the 5 mm LED. Then arrange a bulk buy from Future and if buying an entire lot we could maybe pick some good H bin luxeons. We now have only 2 companies involved thus less confusion.

Just my thoughts on this and I hope it may develope into something we can all appreciate.


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## glire (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



ViReN said:


> DCFluX, how much will be the total built cost of the circuit, the dia of the circuit should not exceed the dia of AAA Cell, and if possible, can we put it in the tail (with a small Switch.. n.o. switch) and the +ve will directly go to the LED Circuit being fed through LED (donno how to phraze it in words)
> 
> |---(-ve, Ground)---LED---(+ve)---|---(+ve)---Battery---(-ve)---|---Circuit-Switch---(Ground)---|
> 
> some thing of this sort.... is it possible?


Hmmm...
Wouldn't the circuit need both positive and ground? I think there is no choice but putting the circuit near the LED.


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## carbine15 (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Regulation should work anywhere in the circuit. Look at the two stage mods in tailcaps. I don’t like having the regulation circuit in the tail on this one. It seems a more vulnerable place as you still need to access the battery. I think a very simple straight forward design is called for and we should copy what already works as much as possible. If it saves 50 cents to leave out a tail clicky or a bet clip then leave it out. If we can use a pre-existing body / reflector and it’s circuit and just swap out the lux that may be a best bet. Call it a mass produced mod and just get the thing working with as little effort as possible.


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## DCFluX (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

So much for regulation. Anyway,

260mW draw, 1295mW system capacity = Approx 5 hrs runtime.

Bias resistors:
H Bin, 8.2 Ohms at 1/4W for 3.15V Avg. at 70mA = 84% effiency
J Bin, 4.7 Ohms at 1/4W for 3.39V Avg. at 70mA = 91% effiency


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## jsr (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

For design 2, the "nicer" version, I still feel the LED driver is a better option if you do not plan to drive more than 80mA for max output. A PWM adds additional complexity and expense that may not be needed depending on your requirements. You didn't list what multiple output levels you want. If it's >84mA, then the LED driver I listed won't work, but up to that point, it is a better, more cost effective solution that still provides a lot of output flexibility.


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## DallasA (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Good Morning guys:

I have to agree with Cave Dave on this. When I am offering my help it is me personally not as a manufacture. 

There is some options that Peak might ( I stress might ) be able to help with if you guys were wanting to use say the 1 LED AAA in any of the body forms. I might be able to see if we can make some slight modification to the head to meet your needs. I stress that it will not be offered in all material. 

Peak would not be able to go beyond that because of the statement quote above plus no manufacture would get involved just based on the conflict of interest. 

However, my help will be more of the helping you guys accomplish this on my knowledge, time and maybe some resource help. Example: I know regardless no machine shop would touch this project for 10-100 units regardless of it being in or out of the US. 


Before this goes any further, no offence I love you guys, you all have different ideas and that is great, however you need to all come together and agree on a base line as a collective group or this will not work. That is why I said you should first have a sign up of who is willing to volunteer there time into this project. Then those people are the once to decide on the base line of this project. Remember this, sometimes it is best to start slow and grow then to hit the gas and crash.

So if I may be so bold to say. How about there be a sign up first for people that would like to be serious about making this happen and willing to volunteer there time. I will be one of the first to sign up. 

For those that are wondering well I don’t think I can be much help, on the contrary you can! Example: When the parts list is formed for this project we will need people to research supplies an so forth you can help that way as well. Also more minds and thoughts are better then one.

Couple other things you need to keep in mind, you should all have an open mind and remember that not everyone is going to agree. Additionally you might want to give thought to the future of this. Can this happen? You Bet, as long as you can work together as a team, but also keep in mind this is a public forum and your hard work and time would be going into this.


So who would like to start a sign up sheet and get serious about this?


My Personal support is with you for the long hall!

MJ


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## DallasA (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Sign up for AAA 1w Lux made by the CPF Family:

Please quote last person who signed up and add your name inside the quote along with what you would be will to help with.

MJ: Strategy, Knowledge, Research, Source Research, Final assembly assistance ( if needed ).


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## DCFluX (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



DallasA said:


> MJ: Strategy, Knowledge, Research, Source Research, Final assembly assistance ( if needed ).



DCFluX: Switch Mode Power Supply design and PCB layout.


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## ViReN (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I have started up the signup thread 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/104202

signup closes 45 days from now.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Sign me up please!!!   :thumbsup:


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## ViReN (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

jsr: i feel that for design 1 the regulator you suggested is really nice. we can use the FAN 5610


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## Billson (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Are there any final specs for this light? It's grown rather long for me to read every post.


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## ViReN (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Billson, Please read #79


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## ViReN (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

22 +ve Responses .. looks like we sure can exceed well beyond 100 ... ... well time will tell... let's see...


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## Pathlight (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Hi, I'm in for one model1. Already voted. Wish I could help but can't. Wishing you and everyone good luck. Great idea. . Gordon


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## MartinSE (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Sorry if I have not read everything properly but will this light be water-proof? For me a very good thing if it's a light I use all the time because I use it in real rough life. I'm glad my HDS is or it would be stone cold dead looong ago.


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## DUQ (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Im for sure in for 1


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## glire (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Said in the other thread:


> If you are about to use one 10440 LiIon (AAA format), then I would like the option of one 10280 (N format, AW sells them also). That would be an even smaller light with still 2 hours burn time


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## teststrips (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

In designing the UI for the advanced light, please at least study the photon micro light. I love it's UI. The ability to be able to put the thing in "pocket mode" is truely a blessing and has saved my batteries countless times.

I guess if both models heads were designed with the same twisty functionality we could untwist for full lock out though. VS just using UI for normal off.


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## coby1man (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I'm still unclear about the project goals. If you could place the following in percentage importance I can better imagine how the final product will end up.

For instance the orb raw, I would imagine it to look somthing like:
50% Brightness
50% Size

The Arc AAA-P would look like:
33% Toughness/reliability
33% Brightness 
33% Size

I really think the clarity of the vision would help you with decision making.
The goals for this project so far seems to be.
60% Price
40% Brightness

I assume that people are on this forum because they know more about flashlights and know that better flashlights come at a premium. Another thing to note is they will pay for the better product. What I'm stating is that I'm asuming that the average CPF member cares more about the quality of the flashlight than price. Therefore trying to bring a product with price as the highest priority is not serving the general CPF community. I would further assume that a luxeon light with an arc aaa-p formfactor, even at the same price, is far more in line with what general CPF members want.

I don't mean to step on any toes but instead please take the length of my post to equate to the amount of interest I have in the project.


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## DCFluX (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Take a look at this and tell me what you think.

[This Picture Never Hapend.]

The idea is to use the Microcontroller's 10bit ADC to make a measurement of the LEDs Vfwd drop which is going to be almost a constant value from the main voltage input. Two different modes here, the first is rough using the chips Vin as the ADCs reference the second is fine using the internal 1.1V reference, but the fine would not work with LEDs that have less than a 2.6V drop. I'd have to look at some data sheets and bins, but in the T-5mm world this would exclude every color except White and Blue. Measurements to the LED Vfwd will be made with the FET off, about once a second for 230uS maximum. In another thread it was discussed that this value likes to change with tempreture. 

Also we can read the FETs on resistance in Fine ADC mode to determine what its loses are.

Once we have these numbers it shouldn't be hard to do some math and figure out what the on duty cycle is. I like to use 200 Hz for my pulse frequency. My eyes cannot detect over 45 Hz unless I move something, 200 seems to be the sweet spot for white LEDs, T-5mm anyway.



EDIT:
As for project goals I like to use the universal design triangle. On it's corners there are three items: Cheap, Good and Fast. Problem is you can only choose one line segment, Meaning you can have somethig Good and fast, but it won't be cheap.


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## Steve K (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

a question about pwm'ing a Luxeon like this: it seems like this is relying on the battery to be current limited enough to not fuse the bonding wires in the LED, or to cause the die to overheat. Seems like a poorer way to control the brightness, as opposed to a switching or linear regulator, but it does have the advantage of being cheap and small. And the power dissipation will occur in the battery instead of the circuit (with the exception of a small amount in the mosfet, if you can get it turned on and off fast enough).

I'll be interested in hearing how this works out when breadboarded. 


Steve K.


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## JJohn (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



coby1man said:


> the average CPF member cares more about the quality if the flashlight than price




I think the above is a true statement. I will get one of these if made but, if it is going to be just a cheaper version of the Fenix LoP or the Peak Ocean, then I have to wonder why we would do this. 

That is why the adjustable output (advanced model) makes a bit more sense to me. It would be unique and not just a way to trade a lot of effort for a few dollars saved.

John


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## DCFluX (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

The concept works, just not proven on this scale. Currently we are using it to run 3 1.9V Red LEDs in series with a 12V power supply. In it's current implementation I have to shoot blind at run time and determine what the LEDs vfwd is before it is placed in the circuit and I have to change the programing everytime the color or LED manufacturer changes. Using ADC will be able to do it while the circuit is running in theory, and allow different binnings and color without having to bust out the programmer.

I haven't seen this figure on Luxeon data sheets, probably because I haven't looked too hard, but most T-5mm LED providers will give you a Peak current rating, Like you can hit a 20mA LED with 120mA and get way with it as long as you have a 10% duty cycle. This concept is readily accepted in the "Pirana" style LEDs that are meant for pulse service in LED reader boards, the die is rated at 70mA if you keep it on all the time, but you can pulse it to 350mA for say 250nS as long as you wait 2.5mS before you do it again.

About the only flaw with this system is that the micro might crash, and I say might because I have never had one crash on me yet. But when if it does while the FET is in the on position the LED is connected to the battery minus the resistance in the FET with the potential to burn out the part. I know what your thinking, this is a serious drawback, but this microcontroller also features a watchdog timer. So in the unlikely event of a crash it will be automaticlly reset in 250mS or less, leaving little to no risk to the 1W part.

Other intresting features would include the ability to go into a low power or "off" mode if the Light was turned on inadvertanly, after say an hour the microcontroller could either dim the light or go into a sleep mode consuming somewhere around 5uA. This could also be taken advatage of for soft on and off, so a cheaper momentary VCR style push button switch may be employed, but it would have to sit in the head. 

I can eliminate the switch as well by having a set of touch contacts, but this may not be a good idea as it may turn on and off just by touching anything remotely conductive in your pocket.


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## ViReN (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

DCFluX: Design looks simple and sweet, Let's hear about this by other experts as i do not have knowledge of this design. I hope you will be able to squeeze this in the little space & diameter constrains.

jsr: we can use FAN chip for the 60 mA / 80 mA Simple regulator version. it will provide a cheap and reliable source for regulation. where can we get samples for working on this project?

and good news... within a day we have 60+ Signups...


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## ViReN (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

DCFluX: request to resize the drawing so may be 800x600 max size


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## DCFluX (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

[This Post Never Hapend.]


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## pokkuhlag (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



DCFluX said:


> I would but too much distortion occurs to the point where it is not readable. It's already a .gif so it is taking up a whole 16K of space.


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## photo2000a (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

did i miss the voluenteer sign up, i put down for a unit on the vote thingy but i mighta had a lapse

where do we stand on that??


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## greenLED (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



coby1man said:


> I assume that people are on this forum because they know more about flashlights and know that better flashlights come at a premium. Another thing to note is they will pay for the better product. What I'm stating is that I'm asuming that the average CPF member cares more about the quality of the flashlight than price. Therefore trying to bring a product with price as the highest priority is not serving the general CPF community. I would further assume that a luxeon light with an arc aaa-p formfactor, even at the same price, is far more in line with what general CPF members want.



Coby1man, I respectfully disagree with your post. Knowing "more about flashlights" doesn't equate to having to pay more for one. That inaccurate rationale has been used by some to profit enough from CPF'ers, and it's time more people on CPF were aware of that. The fact is, there are a lot of well-built lights available at very affordable prices; you don't have to spend a fortune to have a good light. That is the purpose of this project, and it is why it is actually "serving" the CPF community -proof is in the interest people have shown in this new light.


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## offroadcmpr (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I don't know if this will work or anything.

Knowing that a lot of people mod their own lights here, and are very good at building things and such. I think that we can have members put together some parts of their own lights. It would save on costs, and as long as it doesnt take any soldering skills or anything like that, it could be done I think. But this would depend on how the light is put together. If it is only two pieces, the body and the head, it doesnt make much sense, but if it has several peices that you have to screw together, it could save a lot of time for the person that has to do that before it is shipped out.


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## DCFluX (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

We could make a Mag Solitare mod, but it would require the end user to change the reflector, which is not easy to do. But they are cheap in the 5 to 6 dollar range. The switch is there as well, So then we can just concentrate on the LED, lens and regulator.


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## jsr (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

ViReN: Sorry, I haven't been following the thread. Mouser carries FAN5610 drivers. You might be able to get a few free sample parts from Fairchild also if you call them directly. You might have to...ahem...tell them a higher EAU (Estimated Annual Usage) then what you will really use (something in the 10s of thousand range is usually good enough to get free samples), but it will get you some free parts to do evaluation with. Keep in mind that the FAN5610 can also provide variable output levels if driven by a PWM or PFM.

I share Steve K's concern on the PWM drive circuit with there not being any current limiter. A resistor could do the job, but then you'd be dissipating power in the resistor creating unnecessary heat and increasing the ambient temp around the LED. I'm not very familiar w/ the driver/regulator designs for flashlights though, so I don't know what's commonly used and accepted. Even w/ a basic buck/boost converter (which would still need a switching control) or a linear regulator, you'd need a current limiting (setting) resistor that will consume power, unless there's other designs (again, I'm not familiar w/ these applications). I'd like to find out more on the drivers/regulators used, but I think many who make them want to keep their IP confidential.


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## cave dave (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

If you are not going to support primary AAA, why use the AAA form factor? You could go with n, cr2, 1/2AA and lots of other sizes all available in LiIon.

I still inherantly distrust any project where the number one priority is to make it cheap.


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## photo2000a (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

did i miss the volenteer sign up? just checking to see if i missed it


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## DCFluX (Jan 13, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I just took a looked at the Fairchild datasheet for the FAN5610. It may work all right for the present 3.7V econo model. But I feel there are some issues.

First: It needs a headroom of .35 volts above the LEDs voltage which has to be the best of any current regulator I have seen to date, but you have to have the lowest voltage bin of LED you can get to work with a 3.7V system. This might not be a problem, but I do not know how Li-Ion "Sags" with current draw and drain so it could.

Second: The 84mA is spilt amongest 4 pins, to drive 4 different LEDs at 21mA each, can they be tied together to drive just one? The current sources may do something crazy when tied and could damage the chip, LED or both.

On a positve note, it does look small.


cave dave: I prefer to go with good and fast on the project triangle myself, the company I design for always puts cheap first which annoys me and is the reason it took 3 plus years to get a product in the store. 

I would gladly pay the $2-3 dollars extra for the SMPS converter to make it run on straight up Alkalines or NiMH as opposed to anything Li-Ion. 

I think I said it before, what good is a $10 flashlight when you have to invest in a $15-20 dollar battery and charging system? Doesn't it really become a $25-$30 dollar flashlite? 

I think you can get Alkalines for $0.25 each in qty, and usually $2.50 for a 2 pack in any corner store on the planet, when you take those costs into acount be sure to compare it to the live cycle of the Li-Ion cell, how many charges before it needs to be replaced. 

It has been my experence that Ni-MH is really durable, I've had some cells last 7 years and they are still going. If you are running a Ni-MH and it conks out you can quickly swap in a replacement Alkaline that you bought or "borrowed" from a piece of consumer equipment such as a remote control or a pager. And when you are down and out, in the middle of no where, you are going to feel like such an idiot when you left your charger at home, assuming you can find an outlet to plug it into and wait the hour or so to charge it.


jsr: I do not wish to make my SMPS designs public at the moment. Maybe if there is some kind of comitment to a 1.2-1.5V battery system. Of course it would be in lieu of the microprocessor so it wouldn't have the "trendy" features and take slightly more room for the coil, but could power the light at 1W and 1/4 power levels, user setable with a solder blob. Expect 50 minutes to 1 hour of 1W light on a 850mA Ni-MH. 1:45 to 2:15 on a Alkaline. Times those numbers by 4 for the low power 70mA 1/4W mode.


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## ViReN (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

DCFluX: how would you suggest drive a simple LDO Setup? ... I have been searching but coluld not get good regulators in current mode (especially considering size restrains) ... do you think simple resistor will suffice for the base model?

for the advanced model, to keep electronics simple I think with Li-Ion your circuit will rock. .... 

True, one can build a Boost with a PIC UI ... but the electronics will still be complex ... (just my personal feeling) and then costs will also be on a higher side.


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## cannon50 (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Please add me to the list for one of the basic units also.


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## DCFluX (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

ViReN: I like the PWM regulator concept, it should be cheap enough to include in the basic model at $1.5 to $2.0 in low 100pcs qty. But it is hard to beat the cost of a single Bias resistor, which will be fessiable if someone does a study with a Li-Ion cell to determine what it's discharge to light output curves are.

I couldn't find much for LDO in current mode with a low voltage requirement either, there are some that can do voltage regulation with only a .1V drop which would be nice, say use a 3.0V out regulator, but then all the LEDs have to be binned to be 70mA at what ever the regulator is producing or a fine tuning bias resistor would sit in line with the LED. Take a look at the Maxim 1963:

http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX1963-MAX1976.pdf

The 3.0V version. I couln't find pricing so it may be more expensive then the microcontroller knowing Maxim products. 

I was able last night to convert my Solitare-R from a T-3mm LED to a 1W red from a lensed luxeon I had lying around. I originally had a 1W Cyan running but I melted it and shorted it out with the heat of the soldering iron, these thing are really designed crappy heat wise compared to the Cree Xlamps. I'd love to use a Cree 4550 1/4W LED in the design, but I don't think the size is avalible in white. The 7090 may fit better than the luxeon, but I will have to check if it will fit on the AAA.

I could only get 60mA of drive from the SMPS converter (Only designed for 20mA to 50mA LEDs) into the Luxeon though, but it was running on a single AAA that was already going dead. Not bad light output in darkness, just the thing for covert actions, helicopter pilots and night reading. It really needs a refelctor though. But the driver fits in the diameter for a AAA and that is a big step forward on the PCB front.


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## cratz2 (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I don't understand the negativity behind the 'anti price-centric' comments... I mean, there are probably 5 percent of CPF members that the cost simply does not matter... you want a bright light, get an Surefire M6 rather than a Streamlight TL-3 because it has a better beam... even though it costs 8 times as much. Another example... McGizmo and Mr Bulk make very nice single cell lights that are well worth their asking price but the Fenix and Q3 are popular because they offer very decent quality at a price almost anyone can easily afford.

But to knock a project just because it costs less than $100... I simply don't get that rationale.

Anyway, my question is... how bright is the basic supposed to be? Is it going to be right about the same brightness as the ARC AAA? I mean, I'm in for one regardless, but an S-bin Lux I at 100ma is only about 17 lumens (according to the one McGizmo tested) so an R-bin at 70ma is likely to be... what? Under 10 lumens? Wasn't the CMG Infinity about 7 lumens?

Just trying to get a point of reference.


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## roknrandy (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



DCFluX said:


> I would gladly pay the $2-3 dollars extra for the SMPS converter to make it run on straight up Alkalines or NiMH as opposed to anything Li-Ion.
> 
> I think I said it before, what good is a $10 flashlight when you have to invest in a $15-20 dollar battery and charging system? Doesn't it really become a $25-$30 dollar flashlite?
> 
> ...


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## DCFluX (Jan 14, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I was not impressed with the light output at 60mA, but was with the beam spread. But I had my Solitare-W with a 10 candle power T-3mm White at 20 degrees clearly beat it.

Some one should do some tests with an under powered Luxeon to see what the actual light output is vs. a quality T-5mm LED, Such as a Prosunstar or Allshine. We could make the price drop signifigantly by going with a 5mm part at $0.25 to $0.50 vs. the Luxeon at $3. 

On a related note, are the Luxeons going to be avalible at this price with consistant binning?


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## cratz2 (Jan 15, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Like I said, I'm in for one basic model regardless, but having done a solitaire with a Nichia CS run direct on an AAA-sized LiON, I'd guess it's in the 12-15 lumen range and even without a resistor at all, it runs for 2.5 hours but it initially pulls 170ma. I'm sure that with a simple resistor in the tail, it would be 95% as bright but run for 10 hours off the same cell.


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## DCFluX (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Just got done building the prototype based on design E. I am using a 2N7000 for the FET as it is what I have on hand.

Some more research needs to be done. a resistor may have to sit between the voltage drop pin for this to work properly, so far I only see about a 50mV drop between the LED cathode and anode but nothing is loading it which may be why. But I can measure the amount of current by the FET doubleing as a current sense resistor.

I am not a software engineer, just a hardware one, so this requires someone with advance programing skills to write the program. Or come up with the formula to determin on and off time in microseconds based on the voltage at the vdrop test point.


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## jsr (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



DCFluX said:


> I just took a looked at the Fairchild datasheet for the FAN5610. It may work all right for the present 3.7V econo model. But I feel there are some issues.
> 
> First: It needs a headroom of .35 volts above the LEDs voltage which has to be the best of any current regulator I have seen to date, but you have to have the lowest voltage bin of LED you can get to work with a 3.7V system. This might not be a problem, but I do not know how Li-Ion "Sags" with current draw and drain so it could.
> 
> Second: The 84mA is spilt amongest 4 pins, to drive 4 different LEDs at 21mA each, can they be tied together to drive just one? The current sources may do something crazy when tied and could damage the chip, LED or both.


 
Yeah, that 350mV headroom's kind of a killer...err...nevermind that then.
I don't see there being any issues with tieing the 4 outputs together...they're just MOS sinks.

I was trying to avoid the need of a boost circuit and the resultant additional passives required that take board space and add cost. If a boost circuit is going to be implemented, might as well make the light be able to use alkaline or NiMH batteries also since the components will already be there.
The thing w/ an LDO is that they all require headroom and the light will still fall out of regulation as soon as the battery drops below the VF + headroom.
I don't like the idea of a series resistor...it takes up too much power.

DCFlux: Without going into enough details that would risk your IP (though, I'd keep whatever you tell me confidential), can you email me some info on the drive/regulation circuits used for flashlights ( [email protected] )? Thanks.
J.


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## ViReN (Jan 17, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

true, a resistor will consume the power.... 

so are we back to square 1 for design of Base Light? ... please keep ideas flowing.

for the advanced light, i think we may go ahead with the DCFlux Design. i agree with JSR for protecting IP (for the inner details of design).

also please note that i am currently visiting India and may not get time to logon on a regular basis to check updated untill end of this month. hope to be back on track by next month... please keep the design discussion going and i request you all to participate actively in the design for both the lights.


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## DCFluX (Jan 17, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I should mention that my prototype E is running 3 white LEDs in parallel that have a measured diode drop of 2.85 average, because I am out of 1W parts.

Anyone have a lead on binned LEDs?

I am looking for in order of preference

Flux:
R
Q

Chromasity:
VI
WO
VO

Vfwd:
L

RVIL would be perfect
QWOL would be my one of my secondary choices.

For the advanced model, I think we need the best of both worlds. I am going to layout a design of a current mode SMPS that will run on 1.2 to 3.7V, A potentiometer would select the brightness setting you want. I am aiming for a target of $3 per converter board. 


Possible Operating Modes:

All chemistry Li-Ion/Li-SO2/Ni-MH/Ni-Cd/Alkaline 

User Setable Current via a Potentiometer 0-350mA.
Forced 350mA
Forced 70mA

Who Likes what?

Low under 2.5 Vfwd parts such as Red/Yellow are supported with an aditional component and slight loss of effiecency. When Vin is greater than LED Vfwd circuit switches to PWM mode to maintain regulation.



Now for something completely different. Is there any way to get rid of these damn smilly faces on the posting interface? I can't stand those things.


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## ViReN (Jan 18, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



DCFluX said:


> I was not impressed with the light output at 60mA, but was with the beam spread. But I had my Solitare-W with a 10 candle power T-3mm White at 20 degrees clearly beat it.
> 
> Some one should do some tests with an under powered Luxeon to see what the actual light output is vs. a quality T-5mm LED, Such as a Prosunstar or Allshine. We could make the price drop signifigantly by going with a 5mm part at $0.25 to $0.50 vs. the Luxeon at $3.
> 
> On a related note, are the Luxeons going to be avalible at this price with consistant binning?



I have been searching for Luxeon I's Lux vs Current charts .... but unable to find....

The purpose behind this is to compare between 5mm's O/P v/s Luxeon O/P

this will also enable us to make maximum use of LED's default property of low current / high output (read: higher lumens per watt at low currents)


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## ViReN (Jan 18, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

DCFluX: why do you think a potentiometer should be used, cant we make 2 versions 1 with a low current fixed and one with variable brightness current through software...

it would be a dream to have a whole converter board under $3 which will support all those operating modes and with the less diameter of constraint.... i feel that this light will make history here.

your inputs and support for this project is valuable DC... keep it up.

I hope you are successful in the design of the circuit. please keep us posted.

while i am on visit here(back home) ... I have already collected raw materials that i would require.. like soldering iorn, some SMD components including some resistors and diodes etc... (which are otherwise not available in Oman)....

next step for me is to get Batteries from AW & get some good Lux I emitters... and start testing for the runtime v/s battery current with simple LDO and Resistored setup.

I hope MJ is keeping an eye on the progress of the signup and this thread.

I am happy to see the progress of the signup thread... we already have crossed the 100 mark... next aim is for 1000 ... and then for 

one of the surprising thing's is that we have more signup's for Advanced than the base light.

Congrats to everyone who is involved in this activity.


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## ViReN (Jan 18, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

according to this post https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1140524&postcount=5 ... it appears that the Vf of Lux III LED at 100 ma is around *2.9 V*, i feel that the fairchild part suggested by jsr with 4 o/p's can also be used as a really good source of Regulator

....


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## DCFluX (Jan 18, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



ViReN said:


> DCFluX: why do you think a potentiometer should be used, cant we make 2 versions 1 with a low current fixed and one with variable brightness current through software...



These are based on the original Design A concept:

I would like the Basic to be the fixed current model with your choice of current setting Either 70ma or 125? We can vote on it.

The advanced would be the same circuit just with a Pot so the brightness can be adjusted by the end user in the field with a 1.4mm blade jewlers screwdriver. And this is regulated, so it will produce that amount of light until your battery can no longer handle it. 

I am going to build a prototype so I can prove it will run on 3.7 volts.


The Design E concept can do the same things meaning be programed with a fixed current for basic or go out and look at a Pot for the advanced.

but it will require at least 1.85V to run. it would be cheaper to build, but requires programing. Design A does not.


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## ViReN (Jan 19, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

DC... I think we should then stick to design E for the advanced light.


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## cratz2 (Jan 19, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



ViReN said:


> according to this post https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1140524&postcount=5 ... it appears that the Vf of Lux III LED at 100 ma is around *2.9 V*, i feel that the fairchild part suggested by jsr with 4 o/p's can also be used as a really good source of Regulator
> 
> ....



You might PM McGizmo with a specific request. He's done those same measurements with R and S bin Lux Is but I think he's only ever posted the flux and not the Vfs at different current levels. And be sure to give him a few days to get back with you.


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## DCFluX (Jan 19, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

ViReN: Of course we could run a bias resistor after a small step-up supply that would produce regulated 5 volts But this would be ineffecient as hell, geting about 85%-90 for the 1.2-3.7 step-up and then subtract an aditional 25% avg to down convert to LED Vfwd for 60%, but it would be regulated. One of my designs "Project Solitare" does this, depending on the LED it upconverts to either 5V or 3.3 and then into the LED with a current drop resistor. Problem is there is not a lot of current in the present parts and they are too expensive to run in parallel. One of my cats stole and hid my solitare with the red luxeon conversion in it so further tests are not possible at this time.


cratz2: Nice quote, Three Kings?


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## DCFluX (Jan 20, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Need a decision on a current sense resistor to use in concert with the microprocessors 10bit ADC.

1: 
1 Ohm 
1.1A full scale, 1.07mA per increment
Loss in resistor (1.1W max) (122.5mW at .35A)

2: 
.5 Ohm or .47
2.2A full scale, 2.17mA per increment
Loss in resistor (2.42W max) (61.25mW at .35A)

3: 
.2 Ohm or .22
5.5A full scale, 5.37mA per increment
Loss in resistor (6.05W max) (24.50mW at .35A)

4: 
.1 Ohm 
11A full scale, 10.74mA per increment
Loss in resistor (11W max) (12.25mW at .35A)


We have to sacrafice effiency for accuracy on this one.

I would like to choose the .1 ohm because it offers the most effiency, but we are stuck with the micro's 1.1V internal reference, so .35A of a standard LED translates as 35mV, which would come close to a count of 32 out of 1024, 70mA would only come to about 6.


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## cratz2 (Jan 20, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I know that the technology behind Luxeons and LiON cells is cool and all, but I'm afraid I'm still missing the point of building a Luxeon light that runs off a LiON cell if it's not going to be as bright or have any more runtime than an ARC. 

Again, I'm definatley in, but have I just missed the actual goal of the project?

DC: Yup! Three Kings.


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## DCFluX (Jan 20, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

ARCs has avalibility issues, I think the only model they make now a days is the AAA.

Personally I took a look at a ARC4 a couple years ago and I didn't see what was so special about it. I liked the fact that it had a microprocessor but it still couldn't be user programed. Plus it had to run off of CR123s and this was just before the rechargable 123s were starting to apear. Yes it had millitary toughness written all over its design, but $185 with the cost of replacing the batteries was a touch too much for my budget at the time.

I had the opprotunity to abscond with a Arc-AA but did not because of the ugly blue halo unbinned Nicihia LED that was in it.

I can not get a Li-ION locally in any form factor, closest I can get is a Lithium CR-123 or CR-2. I think I am going to have to gut a old laptop battery for a cell or two for experimentation purposes.

The current sense is going to work beautifly. but it adds about 5 cents to my original cost estimate for design E.

I think we should go with PWM design E in the basic and current mode boost / PWM for advanced model, I don't want to use SEPIC as there is that .3 - .6V of no mans land where no regulation occurs.


cratz: Nice. Although I think they were 13 years too early for UV flashlites, unless there was a tube in there.


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## ViReN (Jan 20, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I think we should have .1 OR .2 Ohm as sense resistor (considering less losses) if you think visually, eyes wont notice small steps however, eye will notice bigger steps in light which will confirm user that level has increased.


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## ViReN (Jan 20, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



cratz2 said:


> You might PM McGizmo with a specific request. He's done those same measurements with R and S bin Lux Is but I think he's only ever posted the flux and not the Vfs at different current levels. And be sure to give him a few days to get back with you.




Thanks for the suggestion cartz2 .... PM on way to McGizmo


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## McGizmo (Jan 21, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

Hi guys,
I got the PM. I am sorry but I don't have time to read this thread and get up to speed on what you are up to. In terms of efficacy, it will increase as current goes down, plain and simple! It will decrease as current goes up and I don't know how the new 1W's compare to the old ones but I recall seeing a real flattening of the curve at around 700 mA on the 1W. Any plots you do with current VS lux will map over to current VS flux provided you use the same optic and ditance to light meter. If I have missed the question, sorry.

I recall posting a table of a 1W with lux, I-Led and Vf of a 1W but that was a couple years ago so not valid today. If you plan to put significant weight in such a table then test more than one LED!!!! :wave:


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## ViReN (Jan 21, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

wow  McGizmo ... it's an honour for us that you have commented.

Thanks for the response.

I believe, we should get the new LED and then do some I/V/Lux Curves...


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## HarryN (Jan 23, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

If the goal is to make an inexpensive light, that runs for a long time on a very commonly available battery, perhaps it would be easier just to direct drive a standard, run of the mill Luxeon from a standard CR 123 (not R type). I have done this with K bin Vf, and it works fine, at a reduced current flow of course.

To some extent, it is self limiting, as higher currents drop the voltage. A small resistance or diode would be nice.

Quick, easy, simple, not expensive charging, and a very long run time at reasonable current flows.


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## DCFluX (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I would like a C cell form factor my self, It would then be slightly bigger than the arc-4 and run practicly forever on a single cheap cell. On a related note, I picked up a holiday packaged 20 pack of AAA alkalines today for $1.99 + tax on clearence. 

I can not find someone locally to grind a casing for a prototype. A welding shop is no where close to a machine shop, especially when it measures in cubits. 

I would prefer materials in order of preference:
Stainless steel
Naval brass 
Aluminum

We also have a sizing issue with the Lux-I, it will not fit in a AAA casing with out the leads being bent all to hell. AA is the smallest diameter board it can be soldered to.

The Cree 7090 will fit AAA diameter just barely.

ViReN: Do you have a sketch of the casing in mind? Rough idea on how you would like everything to fit together? Can the head be about the size of a AA and the body a AAA?


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## ViReN (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

DC, I am currently working on the Design aspect of the "Business End" of the light.

The basic light would be exactly of same size as that of Peak 1 LED AAA Pocket (smallest one) (clicky will add some length)

for the advanced one, i am thinking the size of head to be aproximately that of 3 LED Peak AAA light.

I am also thinking on the similar aspects (LED Leads) being bent. will post pictures soon.


Also, i have looked in for a Clicky Tailcap switch and procured some samples... and will be posting some pictures.... and what a surprise... i got, it's a Two State Switch  (yes the diameter is less than a AAA Cell)  ... this is what i plan to use for a Basic AAA Light ....


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## sniper (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

WHEN???


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## DCFluX (Jan 24, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

ViReN: With the dual state tail switch are you planning to use just resistors?


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## ViReN (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

DC, Yes for the basic Model. I have also looked for a special switch for Advanced model. Today and tomorow i will be on travel .... so wont be able to post more for a couple of days.

however, here is what i had in mind prior to discovering the 2 stage switch.







the dimentions are in MM, base of this design is Peak AAA 1 Led light.

The body is exactly same as peak (if peak is manufacturing this light) then only head needs to be slightly modified. that too only in the reflector part which is actually screwed down from the top ... so with only one simple part being slightly changed, peak can make basic light keeping rest of the process same.

for the Dual Stage Basic model will need re designed Body also the length will increase atleast by 15 mm. so we might need to have another poll for size v/s simplicity.

there is enough room for the electronics in the head (simple LDO / PIC etc)


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## sniper (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*



sniper said:


> WHEN???



WHEN?? And how do we order?


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## glire (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I was thinking, about the basic model, maybe a DD with a high Vf Luxeon.
No driver at all, cost reduced.
Maybe Luxeon III like T##M are quite cheap (high Vf -> no demand -> low cost).
The downside is when the LiIon is fully charged, current would be well above 70mA, but it should fall rapidly. A (Vf,I) graphic for a T##M should be interesting. Once LiIon goes below 3.99V (that's T##M lowest Vf) current should fall.

If fully charged LiIon voltage is too high, a sckotty diode in series should help.


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## DCFluX (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I just got back from the hack-shack to discover they carry Lithium AA cells, not Li-ION. But still it makes me want to go with a AA size light instead of a AAA one.


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## ViReN (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: Let's Build a $10 AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light...*

I have good and bad news both together....

Good News... is that i attempted .... 





the switches (source from local market, basically made in china) were NOT up to the mark...  3 out of 7 switches failed to operate reliably ... i searched for them on the net for made in USA switches but  the cost of the switch itself is about $3 - $5 in quantity of 1000's .... less than 10 price is about $8 (remember, it's a two stage switch and has specification of 45,000 operating cycles)

bad news is... 
after looking at the signup thread... where the quantity of each required to have this project economically viable unfortunately very less. (even optimistic totals to less than 300 adding both basic and advanced version) with a poll closing date of 27th Feb, i dont see it would be any way near 1000's in any case... 

even if the quantity reaches the 1000's mark, the cost of building this light in USA (which is a prime motive) is no less than $30 - $35 range (this seriously hurts the motive of the project)

the reason for the high cost are as follows
1) High Machining & Anodizing costs
2) High assembly costs
3) misc. costs such as support and infrastructure costs....
4) Unavilibility of LED's at cost (that was previously thought of) for a specific bin.... (RXOH, RXOJ)
5) Shipping of raw materials from one place to other... Taxes... and loads of other expenses

_mere cost of raw materials added together DOES NOT make it total for a complete product manufacture._

add to the expences of charger and battery .....

total cost of basic light itself will be around (a dream shattering) $55 - $60 

it was a real learning experience for me ... 

i request moderators to close this thread & signup as it wont be going any further.... the basic motive was to make a $10 li-Ion AAA Regulated Luxeon I Light... "the idea was nice... but not practical" ... as some one said it... and i dont see this going any where ...


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## LifeNRA (Feb 11, 2006)

You gave it your best shot and that is all that counts. I am sorry that I could not help and/or sign up for a light. I really did want to see you succeed.


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