# Saw Blade Steel



## tnuckels (Mar 23, 2008)

I am trying to build a clip for my new Nautilus: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2406413&postcount=44 and after scouring the local hardware stores for donor items for this project and coming up short, decided to try a saw blade. I think I can get it to work by heating the metal to perform the bends, but am concerned that I’ll alter the metal negatively, like cause it to fatigue more easily, or rust, etc., in the process. 

If anyone has experience working with metal that is used in saw blades, like the type found on a common Stanley hand saw, I’d appreciate your comments.


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## will (Mar 23, 2008)

You will have problems with a saw blade. 

First - it is hardened. you will have to heat it - red hot to bend without breaking. 

Second - you won't be able to cut it - it is hardened. You can grind it down. 

but - for a couple of dollars for the blade - it is worth trying.


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## dom (Mar 23, 2008)

Give the saw blades a miss -you can't bend them right over like you want in your picture -plus they will rust.

See if you can find a nice wide SS butter knife with uniform thickness blade. 
They are made of stainless spring steel -though i think you still might have a bit of a task to fold the metal as aggressively as you want.

EDIT: Maybe even some of those cheap steak knives will be wide enough -not sure what width you need?

Cheers
Dom


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## tnuckels (Mar 23, 2008)

Current design requires a sheet about 0.7” wide x 2.5” long, though looking at the mount hole spacing, center to center at 0.5”, just now and imagining this wrapping around the body of the light, which is only 0.79”, I’m starting to have second thoughts. I split the two legs loose from each other to allow for independent movement and easier placement, but the change in angle from one hole to the next when wrapping around that slim body may still be too much.

It all looks so good in 2D, but perhaps falls apart in the reality of a 3D world. Back to the drawing board and my ill suited software for this task, Visio.

Thanks for the pointers on saw blade metal *WILL*. Yes, hand saw blade vs. hack saw blade = DRAW, as it barely even leaves a scratch.

I had not thought to prowl the kitchen wares for my donor material. Thanks for the tip *DOM*. I can tell you’ve done this before. 

I am able to achieve 90° bends in the saw material when heating it red hot, but worry this may weaken it in some way, leading to early failure. Rust is only a minor concern as this light will likely be on me most of the time or well taken care of at least.


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## gadget_lover (Mar 23, 2008)

What you need is a quick brush-up on the art of heat treating. There's a specific routine to soften the metal so it can be ground, filed, etc, then another routiine to harden it to the point where it's springy again.

You can pick up small sheets of thin steel at the hobby shop. You can also get it at many hardware stores. Once you cut it, grind it, shape it etc you then heat treat it and.... Bingo, a clip with spring. 

You could start with something like a cheap steak knife, but don't count on being able to do sharp bends without it breaking.... unless you heat it first, then you have heat treat it to get it back to springy again (see above  ) .

Good luck on your project,

Daniel


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## LukeA (Mar 23, 2008)

gadget_lover said:


> What you need is a quick brush-up on the art of heat treating. There's a specific routine to soften the metal so it can be ground, filed, etc, then another routiine to harden it to the point where it's springy again.
> 
> You can pick up small sheets of thin steel at the hobby shop. You can also get it at many hardware stores. Once you cut it, grind it, shape it etc you then heat treat it and.... Bingo, a clip with spring.
> 
> ...


Heating metal red hot (to nonmagnetic pearlite) and then letting it cool slowly (i.e. not quenching it) anneals it, making it very malleable. This won't weaken it or make it prone to failure. It just removes most of the coherent crystal structure that makes the metal hard and resistant to bending.

IIRC, coating the part in motor oil and burning that off a few times will heat it hot enough but not too hot to return spring temper. Then you'll have to polish/brush it so it isn't hideous looking.

Looking at the design, I would relax the sharper bends for the sake of mechanical strength.


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## tnuckels (Mar 23, 2008)

I did some quick reading over at the wiki and a few other places on heat treating metals, so I follow what you’re saying about heat to red hot, then slow cool to make malleable, then reheat to a lower temp to return temper. Good to know there is a shade tree mechanics guide to doing this, as much of what I read had the potential to be quite complex and precise.

Here are the two clips I am “borrowing” ideas from:
ARC 4+/HDS Clip: http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2364
McGizmo Clip: http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?cPath=48_55&products_id=653

I really like the idea of the “deep pocket” design of the ARC/HDS clip, but as I am unwilling to penetrate the body of the light with screw holes I am confined to the lip at the tail end of the light that houses the recessed split ring. I am further constrained by the fact that I do not want my clip to extend beyond the tail end of the light, adding to its length and preventing it from tail standing. To top it all off, this is a small light, about 0.8”x2.6”, and I want the clip to be of a pleasing proportion to the light and not overpowering to look at.







I think I’ll try to make one as designed above, but may end up backing off to the much simpler angles and bends like the McGizmo clip in the end.

Thanks so much for the pointers thus far. Any other comments, pro or con, are greatly appreciated.

*EDIT:* Here's a much simpler design ... perhaps I should crawl before I try and sprint.


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## indycrucible (Mar 27, 2008)

tnuckels said:


> I did some quick reading over at the wiki and a few other places on heat treating metals, so I follow what you’re saying about heat to red hot, then slow cool to make malleable, then reheat to a lower temp to return temper. Good to know there is a shade tree mechanics guide to doing this, as much of what I read had the potential to be quite complex and precise.


 
The proposed heat treatment you outlined will not do what you think it will. Yes, heating to red-hot (austenite) and slow cooling will anneal the material and make it soft enough to form (bend), but subsequently reheating to a lower temperature will relieve stress from the bending operations, but will not return any hardness or strength the to clip. The saw blade is probably a high carbon steel alloy with induction or laser hardened teeth. You could anneal, cut, bend, reheat to bright red hot, quench in brine water, reheat to about 350F for at least 1 hour, then clean all the oxidation off. 

The up-side is a very hard and strong clip, the down-side is it will probably distort when you quench it or worse, crack when you quench it.

I think your best bet is a piece of 300 series stainless steel. Reduce the bend radii of your design, bend it and bolt it on.


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## tnuckels (Mar 27, 2008)

This has been an interesting, if brief and incomplete, education in metallurgy, further adding to my respect for the art. However, all I want to do is make a clip for my flashlight, and as romantic as the idea of "TNUCKELS: pseudo-blacksmith" is, I think I’ll take what appears to be the consensus advice and bag the saw blade route in favor of stainless steel, as well as opting for the simpler design in terms of bends. 

Even the simpler design works out to be fairly complicated, given the crudeness of my software and hand tools. I enjoy making things like this by hand … just so long as they don’t look “hand made” in the end, if you know what I mean.

Off to Linens-N-Things to cannibalize some unsuspecting kitchen wares item.


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## scott.cr (Mar 27, 2008)

tnuckels said:


> Off to Linens-N-Things to cannibalize some unsuspecting kitchen wares item.



Don't forget Big Lots!, or whatever the equivalent "99-Cent-Only" store in your area is. (I raided the kitchen section of Pic-N-Save for cheap raw materials through most of my adolescence.)


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## dstutts (Mar 27, 2008)

PM sent


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## warlord (Mar 29, 2008)

Very interesting stuff. Did you consider cannabalizing a moneyclip or a knifeclip or even a clip from a garage door opener? It might be easier to cut down to spec and you may not even have to worry about making all the fancy bends.


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## tnuckels (Mar 29, 2008)

Don’t have a money clip … don’t have any money … spent it all on flashlights!

I did eye the clips on some inexpensive knives at the HW store, like the recently ubiquitous folding utility blade knife, but figured cheap knife ≈ cheap clip.

I also toyed with the stealing the clip off one of my measuring tapes or the wire clip off the garage door opener, but in the end I bought an inexpensive Oxo Good Grips stainless steel spatula. So far, so good, and I’ve removed the handle, cut out the thin tip and thick back ends giving me a piece about 3x5” of uniform thickness to work with. I’ve cut that down into three pieces so that I can make multiple tries if I screw up the first one. I printed out three copies of my design and am trying to decide the best way to accurately transfer the likeness to the metal, either try and etch the metal (may prove difficult on the hard shiny surface) or cut out a sticky likeness and attach it to the metal while I cut out the design.

I’m certainly open to suggestions here …


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## indycrucible (Mar 29, 2008)

I would print the design out on white sticker/label paper, then stick it to the stainless blank you've created. Stick the entire sticker, without cutting it out, to the metal in one big piece. No reason to cut the design out of the sticker, when cutting the stainless, just follow the lines on the sticker that is stuck to the metal. 

Typical home metal cutting techniques (sawing, abrasive cutting, grinding, shearing) will remove the sticker right along with the stainless steel (unless you are using electo-discharge or electro-chemical machining, which I doubt). 

After all cutting is complete, peel the remainder of the sticker off of your workpiece.


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## LukeA (Mar 29, 2008)

Try 3M spray adhesive. It goes on in a smoother coat if you heat up the can with hot tap water.


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## tnuckels (Mar 30, 2008)

I tried using my favorite Loctite Super Glue Professional to secure the diagrams during the shaping process, but the bond seems susceptible to the heat generated and lost adhesion to the smooth surface. Perhaps a little roughening up with the wire wheel might help. If not, I’ll try some labels and/or 3M spray adhesive next.

A couple more thoughts & questions:

1. What would you use to mark the centers of the holes that will be hand drilled through? I’ve used sharpened dry wall screws in the past and they work fairly well to get me started and prevent the drill bit from walking all over the surface, though I still get a bit of wander even with a good centered start. None of my punches seem up to hard materials like this and leave more of a dent, not the small hole I’m looking for.

2. Would you very lightly score the material at the bends in hopes of getting a straighter and more defined bend?

It’s often surprising how much thought and effort can go into such tiny and seemingly simple creations.

Thanks to all for your guidance and suggestions thus far.


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## LukeA (Mar 30, 2008)

tnuckels said:


> I tried using my favorite Loctite Super Glue Professional to secure the diagrams during the shaping process, but the bond seems susceptible to the heat generated and lost adhesion to the smooth surface. Perhaps a little roughening up with the wire wheel might help. If not, I’ll try some labels and/or 3M spray adhesive next.
> 
> A couple more thoughts & questions:
> 
> ...



Get a dedicated center punch and a #1 center drill. I hope you're using a drill press, too.


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## tnuckels (Mar 30, 2008)

Drill Press … Bah! Drill Presses are for (_insert your favorite demeaning term *HERE*_), or for those who want to get it right, or crazies who need , what’s that thing called again … oh, yeah, accuracy. :nana:

Slowly eking along here, but here are some progress shots:





*Paper Mock-Up*





*Layout On SS Stock*





*Rough Stock Takes Form*





*1st Attempt, ¾ View*





*1st Attempt, Side View*

Lots left to do obviously, but I'm not displeased with the result so far.


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## indycrucible (Mar 30, 2008)

Looks great!


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## dom (Mar 31, 2008)

Looks really good.
Think you should drill your holes first.
Use center punch like suggested ,then smallest drill you can use without breaking -up to the correct size drill you need.
Or you could see if you can buy a rivet drill (usually 1/8") as these are much stronger than normal drills and won't wobble as much doing by hand.


What are you using to cut them to rough shape -dremel and cutoff wheel?

EDIT: don't score where the bend is as it couldl weaken and maybe break there.
Also have you thought of using double sided tape for sticking on your drawing? You can get stuff that is thin as sticky tape -a bit of alcohol wipe on the metal surface will stick it well.

Cheers
Dom


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## Endeavour (Mar 31, 2008)

I agree with Dom on cutting your holes first - a drill press with some clamps would be invaluable to get accurately centered holes. (You can get one at Harbor Freight Tools for about $50, and is worth the investment if you have space for it)

I again agree with Dom that you do not want to score the metal. I would clamp it onto a piece of wood and lightly tap the frontal tip with a ballpeen hammer until the desired angle was reached. I would also suggest to use rounded curves as opposed to sharp angles like you have designed, in part because it'll look a little cleaner and be less likely to catch on anything, and also because you won't have the load of the spring all centralized at one point.

I would also recommend picking up a set of needle files if you don't have any already and using them to break the edges of the clip and get rid of any burrs or sharpness, and maybe at the very end use some metal sand paper from 100 up to about 400 grit to get a nice, satin finish on it.

Good luck!


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## tnuckels (Mar 31, 2008)

This first go at it is mostly to get comfortable with the process … see what works and what doesn’t , and if it all goes well then great I’ll finish off this clip, but I have backups waiting in the wings as I’m all to familiar with my own shortcomings.

I’d thought to drill the holes first while working with the flat cutout, but thought the holes in the two mounting tabs might distort when bent to fit the light’s curvature and have to be re-drilled anyway. That, and I don’t actually have the screws yet for precise measurement, but was going by information from a distributor’s website on the threaded shaft’s length & width and estimating the head size from pictures. I have access to a drill press when I next visit relatives in Tennessee as one of them runs a machine shop and I’d planned on letting him drill and tap the holes in the light’s body, and maybe do the holes in the clip itself if I can’t get it accurately done on my own.

TO-DO-LIST: Buy mounting screws today …

I’m using a diamond coated wheel and Dremel to cut the shape out. I thought I could go right to the line, and perhaps with a bit more practice I can, but there are a few overcut areas on the first clip that I’m either going to have to work around, correct, or chalk up to the learning curve.

The metal bent well enough that I didn’t have to score it. I brought this up because I’ve seen what appear to be “pre-bend” marks from time to time on things that I buy at the HW store, but they might also just be tool marks.

Roughing the surface with a wire wheel allowed the paper template to stick throughout the shaping process.

I may well invest in something along the lines of a drill press as I’ve needed this degree of accuracy dozens of times over the past few years. However, I’ve done as has been suggested, drilling small to get on target, then increasing bit sizes to the final hole size, sometimes finishing out with a round file to correct any wander, and this has worked well in the past. Still, I’m usually up for a new toy … err, um, tool.

Hullo Enrique! Hope you don’t mind me monkeying around with your little gem.

The first bend up from the mounting tabs has to be a bit sharp to clear the adjacent knurling. I used that bend to “set the tone” for the rest of the design, but like the idea of more flowing curves and see where that would contact and hold the clipped object over a broader area and hold more securely. I may shift toward a more rounded curve design because I’ve no idea exactly how this will feel once mounted to the light, and just hoped that its small size would keep it from becoming uncomfortable. Only time will tell on this.

I do have a set of diamond coated needle files of various shapes and sizes to dress the edges and corners with. I also have various grits of sandpaper (150, 200, 400, 600) and even some that can be used to wet sand the final finish to whatever degree of polish I settle on for the clip.

I’d like to thank everyone for chiming in. Whether or not I end up using your suggestions or advice is immaterial. There’s almost always a better way to perform a given task which has been figured out over years (generations) of experience to become a “trick” of the trade. If I can incorporate any of that into my methods, in part or wholesale, then I am grateful to you for helping me, and those that read this thread, become a better craftsman.


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## warlord (Mar 31, 2008)

To transfer your drawing you should use the toner transfer method.

Basically you print your template on a laser jet printer using glossy photo paper (staples basic glossy is popular). Roughen the surface of the metal usually with a scotchbrite pad. Place your 'template' face down on your metal surface and iron on HIGH.

Then soak in water for a few minutes, peel off as much paper as possible, soak again for a few more minutes, and rub off the rest of the paper. You may need to repeat the soak ->rub part a few times.

When finished you will have a piece of metal with the design in toner on it, not just taped or glued.

Here's a good example:
http://steampunkworkshop.com/electroetch.shtml

You can use the full method with electrolytic etching to create parts out of thin metals. I imagine the metal you're using is too thick and will have to be cut down using more traditional methods.


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## tnuckels (Mar 31, 2008)

Wow *WARLORD*, that’s great information :thumbsup:, as the adhered paper sometimes interferes with the cutting process, like when the spinning blade’s direction hits the metal first, then paper, leaving an uncut lip of paper to obscure the work underneath. It also seems one of those “why didn’t I think of that” moments, as I know that toner is just some form of pelletized plastic that’s melted onto the paper by the fuser in the printer, just never thought the reverse process was possible. It’s neat that the melting process appears to affix the paper to the metal for an accurate transfer without slippage. Gonna’ try this later this evening. 

Thanks and Cheers!


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## warlord (Mar 31, 2008)

No problem. I knew of the process but didn't think to post it until I read your post above mine:thinking:. Keep us up to date on this project...looks like fun.


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## tnuckels (Apr 5, 2008)

So much for getting to this “tonight”. As is so often the case, my life gets in the way of my life. Anyhow, this glossy paper/toner transfer works great, with a bit of tinkering. Still waiting on my screws before I cut my next clip as the PDF gives a range of about 0.004” for most of their dimensions.

Check out the transfer image below:







TOO COOL! :twothumbs Thanks again Mr. WarDude!


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## dom (Apr 6, 2008)

Woah! Very impressive method Wardude -should make the grinding process much easier.

How hard is it to get the toner off?

Cheers
Dom


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## tnuckels (Apr 6, 2008)

The transfer process took 4x to get it right. The 1st time I tried transferring from standard paper which holds the toner too firmly in its porous surface to work. I re-read *WarDude's* post and tried again with glossy photo paper. 2nd time I think I didn’t apply enough heat and/or press down at every point to get a full transfer. The 3d time I overdid the heat and my paper was SO stuck to the stock that I ruined the image getting the paper off. 4th time was the charm, applied heat for about 1min, pressed down evenly across the entire image, and then was able to remove the paper in a single sheet without soaking by pulling in line with the papers surface instead of trying to “peel” it off the stock by pulling at a right angle to the stock’s surface.

I used what I had on hand, HP premium glossy photo paper, which was quite durable, perhaps too durable. While I was able to get it off as a single sheet in the end, the times I tried soaking didn’t have much effect on it. Maybe inexpensive glossy photo paper would work better in this respect.

As my ScotchBrite pad was fairly worn, I used some 400 grit paper to prep the surface as well. The toner image transferred to the stock was very durable, surviving the vigorous cutting process completely intact. The only place it came off was where I scraped the “printed” surface against my workbench to remove a burr on the edge of the cutout. The only other caution I’d add would be to take a bit more time cutting to prevent the metal from heating too much, discoloring the material, and obscuring the black template lines.

Once completed the toner image comes off with a light wire wheel or scraping with fingernail or other non-marring equivalent.

I had a bit of free time, decided NOT to wait for the screws to arrive, and cut out a second clip yesterday. Technique slightly improved  :


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## warlord (Apr 6, 2008)

:goodjob:Looks like the transfer turned out very nice...

...who is this WarDude you speak of?:laughing:



tnuckels said:


> TOO COOL! :twothumbs Thanks again Mr. WarDude!


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## tnuckels (Apr 6, 2008)

That's *MR.* WarDude to the unwashed masses ... perchance one of your vassals my liege?


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## precisionworks (Apr 6, 2008)

> Think you should drill your holes first.


+1

The easiest way to do that is before the clip is cut to shape (Post #26), as there is more strength in the greater material. Then bend the clip to match the radius of the Nautilus (0.400" IIRC) which can be done on a piece of solid stock that's the same OD as the Nautilus.

Finally, clamp the clip in position & use a transfer punch to transfer one hole. Drill & tap that hole. Install the first screw, realign the clip, and transfer punch the second hole. Drill & tap, install second screw, and all done


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## tnuckels (Apr 9, 2008)

Transfer punch … who knew, except everyone in the trade! Thanks again *Mr. Precision *for keeping me from re-inventing the wheel over and over and …

I particularly nice gentleman here on CPF (thanks :thumbsup: Dan!) has taken an interest in this little project of mine and is sending me some titanium to play with. WooHoo! When he asked if I’d like some ti I said that’s like offering Gold to a Dragon or Glenlivets to a Drunk. Something about this place just seems to bring out the best in most folks.

I’ll be visiting Tennessee in a few weeks and my relative who runs the machine shop up there, so it looks like the drill and tap job on the body of the light will be done soon. Got my SS 4-40x3/16 cap head screws the other day. Things are coming together.

Will post more when the ti arrives …


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## tnuckels (Apr 14, 2008)

I received a fair amount of Ti scrap in various sizes, shapes, & thicknesses on Saturday and had I bit of time to play with it Sunday. Thanks again Dan!

I must say that the particular sample of Ti that I picked to practice on was very different to work as compared to the SS from the spatula blade, though I’m not perfectly clear as to the exact composition of either. The Ti is of at least three varieties, some marked 6-4, some marked CP that’s pure, and some marked “?” that’s good old mystery Ti. All three spark white, which I recall from a youthful stint working at a scrapyard is one test for titanium, so it’s all good on that count.

The CP (pure) titanium that I made my first clip out of was a fair bit more difficult to work and my cutting blade grabbed the material a lot more often than the SS I worked previously, flinging my work piece across the garage several times. Besides the expected small white sparks I also got some flare ups when I’d be about to cut a small section off, the whole thing would fire up almost like a sparkler or like the beginnings of a magnesium fire. More than once I thought to myself, “What’s that bad smell?”, only to find that one of these big sparks had landed in my hair, or was trying to burn through my clothes.

Anyway, below are two progress shots of the Ti clip. Next step is to drill the clip, bend it up, then get the body of the light drilled and tapped when I visit my machine shop foreman relative in Tennessee. I’ll post pictures back of the final product soon. 

Thanks so much for everyone’s help and pointers!


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## tnuckels (Apr 22, 2008)

I got the body of the Nautilus drilled and tapped over the weekend. I know he was just being nice, showing me & explaining things and all, but I was amazed at how much equipment can be involved in a small process from measuring, clamping, setting gauges, determining square, setting depth, etc. Probably not so much if you’re familiar with the piece, but my relative was starting from scratch, so quite involved.

And then there was that particularly unpleasant feeling in the pit of my stomach as I watched the first little spiral of aluminum twirl off my flashlight. All turned out fine and I’ve posted a few shots of the finished work below:











Now to get a finalized clip and screw it on!


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## warlord (Apr 25, 2008)

post x2


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## warlord (Apr 25, 2008)

Looking real good! It's nice to have relatives with tools . I'd be stuck doing this @ home with some clamps and a drill press...

BTW, did you pick up some titanium screws to match your new clip?


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## tnuckels (Apr 25, 2008)

warlord said:


> Looking real good! It's nice to have relatives with tools . I'd be stuck doing this @ home with some clamps and a drill press...
> 
> BTW, did you pick up some titanium screws to match your new clip?



Hello WarLord: No Ti screws at this point. It’s not even the thought of spending 5 bucks for some screws, but when you compare them http://www.lunsfordracing.com/mm5/m...&Product_Code=A4B0187&Category_Code=STDBUTTON to the exact same form and function in SS http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=73709 that I bought locally and try and rationalize spending over 17x the money … well, it just seems foolish. But I’ll probably line up with the other fools in the end.

After working with Ti a bit, I can start to appreciate some of the added expense, from the added cost of the raw material that I see from suppliers, to the added difficulty of working the material, to the added necessity of higher grade tools to get the job done, well, it all adds up. Still, 17x seems excessive, thought bragging rights should be worth something.

I was up late the other night finishing off my first full Ti clip, getting a bit tired though, and put it in the vice for the final bends, got it backwards, tried to re-bend in the opposite direction and quickly learned the elastic coefficient limits of the material, much to the expense of my bandaged up hand when it broke loose and I whacked the vice edges.  Let’s hope I live and learn a bit from the experience.

I expect to have something to show by the end of the weekend. Keep your fingers crossed …


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## warlord (Apr 25, 2008)

Well now, it's easy to justify when you can say:

I saved XX.XX amount of $$ due to the donated titanium used for the clip. 

-or-

The $$ I saved on labor alone doing this mod could pay for a bag of titanium screws....

:devil: $5 a screw; I'd have that justified in a fraction of a second.

Anyway, I was wondering why you didn't have any finished pics up yet. Take it easy finishing things up.


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## tnuckels (Apr 27, 2008)

Well, I made two new clips Friday evening and Saturday, one SS and one Ti. Folks at the Y were wondering what that strange noise was coming from my van as I ran the Dermel off the inverter to work on this during down time between soccer games.  Got the clips all drilled, cleaned up, and started the bending process.

I have a new respect for the work that goes into making even simple things, or at least the software they model things with. Having a fixed target, the screw holes drilled in the body of the Nautilus, adds a whole new wrinkle compared to just bending metal to fit a shape. The bends change the distances between things (knew that) and the curved bit changes the relationship between the mounting holes (figured that out early on), but now there’s a new twist.

The bends along the length of the clip are pretty straight forward, but the point where this section meets up with the curved mounting tabs is where things get dicey. The corners along the middle cutout V work fine, but the further along the arc of the mounting tab you travel from this inner bend point, the further out you are from the original flat plane of the cutout. This would be fine if the legs of the V could stretch to cover this out-of-plane distance, but they can not, primarily because they are bent upward at this point. Because there is not enough material to span this distance at the outer bend point, the more you curve the mounting tabs, the more downward the tabs hang. Imagine a dog with its ears hanging down. Straighten the tabs and the center point of the clip’s mounting holes move inward and no longer line up with the drilled and tapped holes in the light.

I’m going to have to tinker around with some other material to simulate the clip, maybe heavy poster board, to sort this out. I’m thinking that having upswept tabs (happy dog with up perked ears) in the original flat cutout might solve this. Just hope I get it right before I run out of enthusiasm for this task, but feel that those two glaring holes in my flashlight will preculde this. Failure is not an option!


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## tnuckels (May 5, 2008)

*Re: Clip Material, 3D Modeling Software*

There has GOT to be a better way to do this. I've got a 1/2 dozen clips made, and none of them actually works yet. 

Heavy paper stock really doesn’t work so great to prototype this in as I can’t really drill the holes nor get the material to exhibit the same interaction between the bends and the curves as metal. I cut a couple of pieces of copper tube, split down the middle, then pounded flat to give me something easier to work with. This works, but is still more labor intensive than I want. I’m going to try the hobby store to see if they have some copper sheet tomorrow.

Here’s a crazy idea: is there some relatively inexpensive software that I can buy that will model in 3D, perhaps even project a flat pattern from a 3D object. Visio just isn’t cutting it …


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## indycrucible (May 7, 2008)

*Re: Clip Material, 3D Modeling Software*

Try using thin aluminum sheet for your fit up trial piece to get the ears right. You can cut the aluminum with shears and bend it easily, but it is still "drillable". Just simplify the rest of the clip design, no need to spend all that time cutting when you are just trying to get the ears/holes right.

You might want to check out Google SketchUp:

Link:

http://sketchup.google.com/

Description:
*"Google SketchUp is software that you can use to create, modify and share 3D models. It's easier to learn than other 3D modeling programs, which is why so many people are already using it."*


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## tnuckels (May 8, 2008)

*Re: Clip Material, 3D Modeling Software*

Thanks for the tips Indy! The  is OVER!

I ended up making two changes to the basic clip design to get it to bend up correctly: rotate the mounting tabs 5° up and bent part of the legs another 5° out (see diagram below)







I also bought some 0.013” decorative tin from the hobby store to prototype with. Much easier than working in SS or Ti, takes about 1/10 the time to make, and you avoid making lots of unusable clips like this. They mostly work, just not on my flashlight. Attached is the first working tin prototype.






As the clip is want to be a thing of imprecise dimensions and imperfect construction I decided to let the holes be the master design element and let them drive the clip's creation. Little did I realize how difficult it would be to square back to this in the end, but success is all the sweeter for it. 

Say hello to my first working Ti (in honor of Dan's donation to the effort) clip for my favorite flashlight, the Nautilus. Enjoy!


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## Mark A. (May 8, 2008)

*Re: Clip Material, 3D Modeling Software*

TNuckels,


Nice job on seeing this project through to completion. Congratulations!



Mark A.


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