# Zebralight H600F c/d mk3 85cri and XM-L 2?



## insanefred

It just popped up here (I think). Unless it is a typo, how are they getting 85 CRI from the XM-L2? Did Cree update their LEDs or was the XM-L2 capable of this already and just wasn't available for us consumers?


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## Amelia

insanefred said:


> It just popped up here (I think). Unless it is a typo, how are they getting 85 CRI from the XM-L2? Did Cree update their LEDs or was the XM-L2 capable of this already and just wasn't available for us consumers?



It is most likely the wrong emitter listed in the spreadsheet. The specs (CRI, CCT) are identical to the other lights using Luxeon Rebel T emitters.

I'm anxious for the H600Fd - should be amazing!


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## StorminMatt

Amelia said:


> It is most likely the wrong emitter listed in the spreadsheet. The specs (CRI, CCT) are identical to the other lights using Luxeon Rebel T emitters.
> 
> I'm anxious for the H600Fd - should be amazing!



Interesting that they say it's brighter. Brighter than what? The SC62d? That light already pushes the Luxeon T to the limit.


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## markr6

POW

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-MKIII-s-and-SC63-release-for-this-year/page8


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## lumentia

insanefred said:


> It just popped up here (I think). Unless it is a typo, how are they getting 85 CRI from the XM-L2? Did Cree update their LEDs or was the XM-L2 capable of this already and just wasn't available for us consumers?


Looks like it really is a cree xml2 with 85 cri. They've had this xml2 easy white emitter out for a while based on this page: http://www.cree.com/News-and-Events/Cree-News/Press-Releases/2014/May/XML2EZWintro

It's 6 volt led though. Maybe Cree recently released an easy white led in 3 volt configuration. Or ZL updated their drivers for higher output volts. Hmmmm. The sc5 is showing up using this same high cri cree emitter now too. http://www.zebralight.com/SC5Fd-High-CRI-Floody-Neutral-White-AA-Flashlight_p_168.html


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## twistedraven

ZL updated their drivers to push 6 volts.


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## lumentia

twistedraven said:


> ZL updated their drivers to push 6 volts.


Sweet!


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## lampeDépêche

I have a H600w Mk I, and an H600w MkII. 

Compared to the Mk I, the Mk II has better anodizing, a better UI (esp. for strobe, which I use on my bike), and slightly (trivially) better output.

The Mk III offers: what exactly? Going from the comparison sheet, it looks like:

1) A better CRI, which is good. 
2) "brighter," though no numbers yet
3) "more efficient," which is always good, though my guess it that the improvement will be small
4) "wider input ... voltage range". If the input range allows you to run a pair of DL123 primaries as well as the 18650, that would be a very handy option to have. 
5) "wider input *and output* voltage range" Why "wider output voltage range"? Why would the LED want to see a range of voltages coming to it from the driver?? I thought the emitter had a preferred operating voltage, and the only thing that should vary is the current? 

I wish they were releasing the non-floody version first, as I prefer the clear lens. That way I can add my own DC fix when I like, and have a bit more throw when I like. It will be a tough thing to hold off on buying the floody version. Must...resist...hold out...for clear lens!


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## lyyyghtey

lampeDépêche said:


> I have a H600w Mk I, and an H600w MkII.
> 5) "wider input *and output* voltage range" Why "wider output voltage range"? Why would the LED want to see a range of voltages coming to it from the driver?? I thought the emitter had a preferred operating voltage, and the only thing that should vary is the current?



I think this might be Zebralight's code for the driver being able to handle a 6V Easywhite LED. (Although I guess they could be talking about the driver being able to cope with less tightly binned LEDs of the 3V variety.) LEDs do have a "preferred" forward voltage but it's a range not a single value, so as the current is raised the voltage goes up slightly. Or another way of saying it: give it slightly more voltage and a lot more current will flow.

I cannot wait for the Fd version!!! My H52Fc is great but slightly warmer than I like in a headlight and too short of runtime!


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## jeffsf

Has anyone gotten any updates on the availability of the Mk III headlamps? "8/2015" has come and gone and my own, earlier inquiry with Zebralight was unanswered.


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## insanefred

jeffsf said:


> Has anyone gotten any updates on the availability of the Mk III headlamps? "8/2015" has come and gone and my own, earlier inquiry with Zebralight was unanswered.



They do not even have specs up for it. You can e-mail them about it, see what they have to say,


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## Overclocker

could it be that the easywhite xml2 which are quad-die have beam artifact issues thats why zebralight is putting them in the frosted versions first?


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## KeepingItLight

Overclocker said:


> Could it be that the easywhite xml2 which are quad-die have beam artifact issues thats why zebralight is putting them in the frosted versions first?




This sounds right to me.


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## markr6

Overclocker said:


> could it be that the easywhite xml2 which are quad-die have beam artifact issues thats why zebralight is putting them in the frosted versions first?



Too bad a slight OP couldn't fix that, if artifacts are in fact the reason.


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## Beacon of Light

Any updates on this? Would like to be able to use my RCR123 cells more instead of just sitting around.


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## lyyyghtey

markr6 said:


> Too bad a slight OP couldn't fix that, if artifacts are in fact the reason.



Even if artifacts are affecting release of the SMO version that shouldn't delay the floody, should it?


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## markr6

lyyyghtey said:


> Even if artifacts are affecting release of the SMO version that shouldn't delay the floody, should it?



No, but since they are starting out with the frosted in the first place, some of us are guessing that will be the only model, due to artifacts. That's purely speculation, though. Maybe they have a ton of frosted lenses to get rid of? Who knows.


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## insanefred

markr6 said:


> No, but since they are starting out with the frosted in the first place, some of us are guessing that will be the only model, due to artifacts. That's purely speculation, though. Maybe they have a ton of frosted lenses to get rid of? Who knows.




It's because of us, if they release a smooth reflector or even a OP version and it has artifacts. We would complain to no end and give it nasty reviews. So, I assume Zebralight knows better.


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## markr6

I'm loving the OP! In fact, most of their lights are OP without even getting "OP" in the description. I'm happy with all of them. Nice clean beam with a good spot/spill mix.

And I don't ever remember them starting with a frosted version, so we still don't know what's going on.


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## twistedraven

Zebralight has updated their site with the new 600f d/c headlamps. The specs are as follows for the d version:



High: H1 *870* Lm (PID, approx 2 hr) or H2 *560* Lm (PID, approx 2.5 hrs) / *255* Lm (3.9 hrs) / *117* Lm (11 hrs)
Medium: M1 *62* Lm (30 hrs) or M2 *26 *Lm (66 hrs) / *9* Lm (172 hrs)
Low: L1 *2.6 *Lm (16 days) or L2 *0.36* Lm (2.5 months) / *0.05 *Lm (4.6 months) / *0.01 *Lm (5.5 months)
Beacon Strobe Mode: 0.2Hz Beacon at Low / 0.2Hz Beacon at H1 / 4Hz Strobe at H1 / 19Hz Strobe at H1\


Estimated shipping: 25th of September. I pre-ordered a d version. Can't wait to compare tints with my L11C's nichia 219b and SC62D's luxeon t.


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## markr6

Looks good! I'm fine with my H600w, but if anyone doesn't like the temp/tint on theirs, there isn't too much loss of output on this one for a (hopefully) better tint and CRI.

*H600w*
High:
H1 *1020* Lm (PID, approx 2 hr)
H2 *620* Lm (PID, approx 2.5 hrs) / *330* Lm (3.9 hrs) / *150* Lm (11 hrs) 

Medium:
M1 *65* Lm (30 hrs)
M2 *30 *Lm (66 hrs) / *11* Lm (172 hrs) 

Low: L1 *3.5 *Lm (16 days)
L2 *0.4* Lm (2.5 months) / *0.06 *Lm (4.6 months) / *0.01 *Lm (5.5 months)

*H600d*
High: 
H1 *870* Lm (PID, approx 2 hr)
H2 *560* Lm (PID, approx 2.5 hrs) / *255* Lm (3.9 hrs) / *117* Lm (11 hrs) 

Medium:
M1 *62* Lm (30 hrs)
M2 *26 *Lm (66 hrs) / *9* Lm (172 hrs) 

Low:
L1 *2.6 *Lm (16 days)
L2 *0.36* Lm (2.5 months) / *0.05 *Lm (4.6 months) / *0.01 *Lm (5.5 months)


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## insanefred

pre-ordered the H600fc. This time with priority mail.


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## dts71

Comparison:


*Lumen (max)
**Kelvin
**CRI
**H600
*1090630065*H600F
*1038630065*H600w
*1020440075*H600Fw
*970440075*H600Fd
*870500083-85
*H600Fc
*800400083-85

In Zebralight's spreadsheet, they mention mk3 being: brighter, more efficient, wider input and output voltage range, ...

However the new presented headlamps only have new LEDs and nothing is mentioned about the mk3 features.
The picture is wrong as well showing standard lens vs the frosted it should be.
Hopefully they will update the information to include the promised changes like wider input voltage range...


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## LessDark

I also preordered a H600Fc, just couldn't resist. 
Finally a warm zebralight with high cri and decent output!


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## insanefred

dts71 said:


> Comparison:
> 
> 
> *Lumen (max)
> **Kelvin
> **CRI
> **H600
> *1090630065*H600F
> *1038630065*H600w
> *1020440075*H600Fw
> *970440075*H600Fd
> *870500083-85*H600Fc
> *800400083-85
> 
> In Zebralight's spreadsheet, they mention mk3 being: brighter, more efficient, wider input and output voltage range, ...
> 
> However the new presented headlamps only have new LEDs and nothing is mentioned about the mk3 features.
> The picture is wrong as well showing standard lens vs the frosted it should be.
> *Hopefully they will update the information to include the promised changes like wider input voltage range...*



This is why a lot of manufacturers say, "Specifications are subject to change without notice"


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## LessDark

I got shipping notice already today


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## insanefred

LessDark said:


> I got shipping notice already today




Lies!


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## LessDark

insanefred said:


> Lies!



No lies! Though with regular walking speed airmail...

As have happened before, they seem to be shipping before the time noted on their page :twothumbs


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## twistedraven

I ordered on the night of the product release on site, and no shipping notice.


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## LessDark

twistedraven said:


> I ordered on the night of the product release on site, and no shipping notice.



Hmm strange, maybe because I'm in europe...


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## snowlover91

twistedraven said:


> I ordered on the night of the product release on site, and no shipping notice.



Usually international orders ship 7-10 days before US orders. They have to wait for a shipment to arrive to the US from their factory before shipping them out. Should see yours ship sometime next week I would think.


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## twistedraven

Oh ok, that makes sense.


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## Sulik

First disappointment - no "wider input". No 2хCR123A support... again. Even no official 4.35 V Li-Ion support.
Orange peel textured reflector. Under the frosted lens... Hi-CRI led... How it can be "more efficient"?
A small lie creates a lot of mistrust. Waiting for first reviews.


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## insanefred

Sulik said:


> First disappointment - no "wider input". No 2хCR123A support... again. Even no official 4.35 V Li-Ion support.



When did they say they were going to have 2xcr123 support? Should you really be charging your li-ion batteries above 4.35v?



Sulik said:


> Orange peel textured reflector. Under the frosted lens... Hi-CRI led... How it can be "more efficient"?



How did you know get OP under a frosted lens? As far as I can tell, they have a smooth reflector base on the sc5fd sitting in front of me. They said more efficient, not brighter. Perhaps the driver is more efficient, considering it is a high CRI, and frosted. The specs already compare very well against the H600 mk2 variants, even those without a frosted lens.



Sulik said:


> A small lie creates a lot of mistrust. Waiting for first reviews.



Yet, again, you are the kind of people that make it so hard for manufacturers to be transparent about future products. Please stop.


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## markr6

They said "first 18650 mk3 (brighter, more efficient, wider input and output voltage range, ...)" so many of us assumed 2xCR123 support. The 4.35v is probably in reference to something like the LG 18650 E1 cell which can be charged to 4.35v.

They do say it's OP coated reflector, but I doubt it. Probably another cut and paste error. They're not lying about the efficiency when compared to the pathetic Luxeon in the SC62s which only does 320lm for 3 hrs. (good tint or not). That would be the closest fair comparison given they're bother higher CRI lights.


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## twistedraven

The sustained brightness of 320 lumens for 3 hours on the 62d is nice. I wish we had at least 320 lumens for a sustained amount of time on these new lights. Perhaps the thermal regulation on the 500ish lumen setting isn't that severe though.


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## insanefred

markr6 said:


> They said "first 18650 mk3 (brighter, more efficient, wider input and output voltage range, ...)" so many of us assumed 2xCR123 support. The 4.35v is probably in reference to something like the LG 18650 E1 cell which can be charged to 4.35v.
> 
> They do say it's OP coated reflector, but I doubt it. Probably another cut and paste error. They're not lying about the efficiency when compared to the pathetic Luxeon in the SC62s which only does 320lm for 3 hrs. (good tint or not). That would be the closest fair comparison given they're bother higher CRI lights.



Not sure why someone would get upset if they didn't have 2xcr123 support, that was an assumption they fabricated. Is there really a benefit from using the LG 18650 E1? 

Finally found where it says "orange peel reflector" I wonder why it says that. I still think the runtimes and brightness still compares well with the other H600 series. Still a step down, but the extra CRI and consistent tint might be worth it, I hope.


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## 18650

insanefred said:


> Not sure why someone would get upset if they didn't have 2xcr123 support, that was an assumption they fabricated. Is there really a benefit from using the LG 18650 E1? Finally found where it says "orange peel reflector" I wonder why it says that. I still think the runtimes and brightness still compares well with the other H600 series. Still a step down, but the extra CRI and consistent tint might be worth it, I hope.


 The LG cells have flatter discharge curves than the standard Panasonics which potentially means maximum levels could be maintained for longer.


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## markr6

twistedraven said:


> The sustained brightness of 320 lumens for 3 hours on the 62d is nice. I wish we had at least 320 lumens for a sustained amount of time on these new lights. Perhaps the thermal regulation on the 500ish lumen setting isn't that severe though.



You get almost twice the runtime with twice the lumens, so that's hard to complain about (560lm, 2.5hrs). Or 255lm for 3.9hrs. Still sticking with my 600w, though


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## Sulik

We should not compare H600F mark 2 vs. mark 3. We should compare mark 3 vs. SC62 because of... They 1x18650 & CRI = 85? Any other similarities? They are both at least headlamps? -No.
High CRI - is a relative concept, no need to separate such flashlights to an independent kind.


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## twistedraven

Got my shipping notice today. Can't wait to compare with 62D and L11C Nichia version in a couple days.


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## Overclocker

2x CR123A is great to have. and i don't think 4.35v is what they meant by "wider". 0.15v isn't even noteworthy

but knowing zebralight they'd probably throttle down the power when in 2x CR123A mode...


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## insanefred

twistedraven said:


> Got my shipping notice today. Can't wait to compare with 62D and L11C Nichia version in a couple days.



Are you in the US or other country?


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## snowlover91

Sulik said:


> We should not compare H600F mark 2 vs. mark 3. We should compare mark 3 vs. SC62 because of... They 1x18650 & CRI = 85? Any other similarities? They are both at least headlamps? -No.
> High CRI - is a relative concept, no need to separate such flashlights to an independent kind.



I have to disagree. It should be compared to the high CRI versions of their lights since this is what it is designed for. Their previous series of lights that were high CRI used the Philips Luxeon LED which offered around 320 lumens max output in the lights it was used in. This was as hard as this LED could be pushed and not as efficient. Now with them switching their lineup away from the Luxeon and towards the new Easywhite LED's it is a valid comparison to contrast them since the Easywhite IS the replacement. Had they decided to make a high CRI version of the MK2 it would have used the Luxeon LED and had similar output to the SC62d which is the main point. 

Also I'm not sure where the info is coming from that this can't support 4.35v as Zebralights page clearly states the following: "Battery: One 18650 size (up to 69mm long) 3.6V-4.35V li-ion rechargeable." It is clear from this that the 4.35v 18650 cells mentioned earlier will be compatible with this light. In order to maintain the best efficiency they likely did not add support for 2 rcr123 cells as this would make for a less efficient circuit thus reducing runtimes. I think this is a great headlamp and the high CRI is great. They will likely release a normal version as well in the standard cool white and neutral white with XM-L2 emitters getting around 1100 lumens if I had to guess.


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## markr6

^ I agree. Great light, hopefully a great tint with pretty darn good performance not _that _far away from H600w. Regardless, the H600w gets me to a point where I really don't need anything brighter. Runtime is the key for me at this point. 620lm or 330lm modes are plenty for everything I need it for.


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## Sulik

Operating Voltage Range: 2.7V - 6.0V
Battery: One 18650 size (up to 69mm long) 3.6V-4.35V li-ion rechargeable.

It wasn't written there 12 hours ago! Good news! I like it!
Damn copy paste...


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## insanefred

18650 said:


> The LG cells have flatter discharge curves than the standard Panasonics which potentially means maximum levels could be maintained for longer.




Yeah, those do look pretty good.


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## insanefred

Sulik said:


> Operating Voltage Range: 2.7V - 6.0V
> Battery: One 18650 size (up to 69mm long) 3.6V-4.35V li-ion rechargeable.
> 
> It wasn't written there 12 hours ago! Good news! I like it!
> Damn copy paste...



Wait what?! Is zebralight ****ing with us now? :devil:

Looks like that also removed "orange peel reflector".


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## markr6

LOL! We have a sleeper...someone here works for ZL. We'll never know who 

I'm still waiting for them to send me a package containing an SC62 with Nichia 219 and a note that says "Here you go...now shut the hell up about good tints"


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## insanefred

markr6 said:


> LOL! We have a sleeper...someone here works for ZL. We'll never know who
> 
> I'm still waiting for them to send me a package containing an SC62 with Nichia 219 and a note that says "Here you go...now shut the hell up about good tints"





Got a shipped notice. This time I ordered mine with Priority mail, so hopefully it is less likely to get lost.


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## 18650

Overclocker said:


> 2x CR123A is great to have. and i don't think 4.35v is what they meant by "wider". 0.15v isn't even noteworthy but knowing zebralight they'd probably throttle down the power when in 2x CR123A mode...


 That's not ZL's problem. CR123A has much lower discharge rates usually 1 or 1.5 amperes. Of course it's going to have less punch.


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## 18650

snowlover91 said:


> I have to disagree. It should be compared to the high CRI versions of their lights since this is what it is designed for. Their previous series of lights that were high CRI used the Philips Luxeon LED which offered around 320 lumens max output in the lights it was used in. This was as hard as this LED could be pushed and not as efficient. Now with them switching their lineup away from the Luxeon and towards the new Easywhite LED's it is a valid comparison to contrast them since the Easywhite IS the replacement. Had they decided to make a high CRI version of the MK2 it would have used the Luxeon LED and had similar output to the SC62d which is the main point.


 Philips does have a comparable LED, the Luxeon M, which is a quad just like the XM-L2 EasyWhite.


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## snowlover91

Yes but they've never implemented that in any of the Zebralight product line. The best high CRI they used before the Easywhite was the Luxeon T. It gave 320 lumens when pushed to the max. The new Easywhite is the replacement for the Luxeon and gives 800+ lumens with the same type of battery. It's clear between these two which one is better. Also they probably introduced a slightly more efficient circuit as well.


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## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> Yes but they've never implemented that in any of the Zebralight product line. The best high CRI they used before the Easywhite was the Luxeon T. It gave 320 lumens when pushed to the max. The new Easywhite is the replacement for the Luxeon and gives 800+ lumens with the same type of battery. It's clear between these two which one is better. Also they probably introduced a slightly more efficient circuit as well.



I almost wish my H600w would die so I could get an H600Fd  No, not really. I love my H600w!


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## twistedraven

People like selling their used flashlights for very minimal loss, so you could always do that!


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## markr6

twistedraven said:


> People like selling their used flashlights for very minimal loss, so you could always do that!



HAHA I do too much of that already! But if the H600Fd is irresistible after seeing some reviews, it could come to that.


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## insanefred

markr6 said:


> HAHA I do too much of that already! But if the H600Fd is irresistible after seeing some reviews, it could come to that.



I have the H600w (won the tint lottery with this one), the H600fc mk3 would be the perfect companion.


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## yelojaket

Hey guys, pretty well decided that I need one of these H600F Mk III's as my first 18650 light to compliment my ZL SC52w and H52Fw. Just have a couple questions and interested in your thoughts.

c version (800 lumens, 4000K) or the d (870 lumen, 5000K)....which do you prefer and why?

Also, which 18650 do you like best for this light and where's the best place to purchase it?

Thanks in advance,
Greg


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## psychbeat

4000k sounds good to me. 
Would be awesome paired with my h600w on a helmet.


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## insanefred

yelojaket said:


> Hey guys, pretty well decided that I need one of these H600F Mk III's as my first 18650 light to compliment my ZL SC52w and H52Fw. Just have a couple questions and interested in your thoughts.
> 
> c version (800 lumens, 4000K) or the d (870 lumen, 5000K)....which do you prefer and why?
> 
> Also, which 18650 do you like best for this light and where's the best place to purchase it?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Greg



Rarely ever use the 630 lumen mode on my H600w, less likely to use 800 or 870 lumen modes, unless I am showing it off to joe sixpack. It is unlikely you'll ever tell the difference anyways. Tint and beam profile is far more important and will make a big difference, especially outdoors. 

The Panasonic NCR 18650B is the safest bet, but there are now better options. I might get a NCR 18650GA for this light, I want to get my light first and decide.


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## markr6

insanefred said:


> Rarely ever use the 630 lumen mode on my H600w, less likely to use 800 or 870 lumen modes, unless I am showing it off to joe sixpack. It is unlikely you'll ever tell the difference anyways. Tint and beam profile is far more important and will make a big difference, especially outdoors.
> 
> The Panasonic NCR 18650B is the safest bet, but there are now better options. I might get a NCR 18650GA for this light, I want to get my light first and decide.



All good advice there. Personally I find 4000K too warm. 5000K is perfect IMO. But for my H600w, I find it the perfect balance around 4400K since I use it for outdoor activities (backpacking in the woods). 330lm modes gets used a lot; 1020lm mode occasionally when I need some "fake" throw to see in the distance or when I'm a bit lost and need to turn night into day.


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## Sulik

yelojaket said:


> which do you prefer and why?


Personally preordered 4000K

1. warmer -> rarely. 
2. warmer -> better for long, detail work on small distance. 
3. Common "cold" XM-L2 (6300K) has lower CRI, than the same "neutral" (4400K). So, then you chose warmer, you get a small chance that it will be a bit higher CRI.

Skilled flashaholics, correct me, if I wrong.


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## insanefred

markr6 said:


> All good advice there. Personally I find 4000K too warm. 5000K is perfect IMO. But for my H600w, I find it the perfect balance around 4400K since I use it for outdoor activities (backpacking in the woods). 330lm modes gets used a lot; 1020lm mode occasionally when I need some "fake" throw to see in the distance or when I'm a bit lost and need to turn night into day.



Just because an LED says it is 4400k, it isn't always 4400K. My h600w measures at 3700K, my H51c measures at 3850k, Quark turboX NW measures at 4500K and my sc5fd measures at4550K. So, expect the H600fd mk3 to be more in between.

Also, 330 lumens for backpacking?! Take your sunglasses off!


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## twistedraven

I always go for the D models, because they're the highest temp with highest CRI on the market. There's already a couple of warmer high CRI used (the high cri warm xml2s, the nichia 219bs, etc). The 5000k color temperature better approaches the look of direct sunlight, which I strive for when outdoors.


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## markr6

insanefred said:


> Also, 330 lumens for backpacking?! Take your sunglasses off!



It all depends on what and where. Sometimes you need 330lm to make up for a lack of throw; I diffuse mine. Other times I'll use 30 or 11lm. Nice to have options since I won't let anyone tell me what is too dim or too bright for backpacking in the middle of nowhere by myself for 5 days.


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## insanefred

markr6 said:


> It all depends on what and where. Sometimes you need 330lm to make up for a lack of throw; I diffuse mine. Other times I'll use 30 or 11lm. Nice to have options since I won't let anyone tell me what is too dim or too bright for backpacking in the middle of nowhere by myself for 5 days.




That's why you have two with you, one throwy light and a floody light. Can also serve as a backup, you should have a back-up if you are not carrying one.


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## markr6

insanefred said:


> That's why you have two with you, one throwy light and a floody light. Can also serve as a backup, you should have a back-up if you are not carrying one.



E05 backup in my first aid kit. But yeah, I started thinking about carrying a decent light as backup instead of one I hate 

I also started taking my T25C2 on some trips. Nice combo!


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## twistedraven

Having one thrower, one flooder (preferably a headlamp), and one EDC makes sense to me!


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## Sulik

Builtin over-discharging protection (2.7V cutoff)
It doesn't fit well with 2xCR123. Isn't it?



yelojaket said:


> Also, which 18650 do you like best for this light and where's the best place to purchase it?



LG D1, LG E1, Samsung 32A - these 18650 has maximal voltage 4.35 instead of 4.20. They fit better if you use high modes more often. But using 4.35 V charger and batteries is a bit more complicated than standard 4.2 Li-Ion batteries and chargers.

Panasonic 3400 - best choice for ZL. No need for protected 18650. ZL driver do this work. Also Panasonic 3400 give more runtime at low modes.


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## 18650

snowlover91 said:


> Yes but they've never implemented that in any of the Zebralight product line. The best high CRI they used before the Easywhite was the Luxeon T. It gave 320 lumens when pushed to the max. The new Easywhite is the replacement for the Luxeon and gives 800+ lumens with the same type of battery. It's clear between these two which one is better. Also they probably introduced a slightly more efficient circuit as well.


 The Luxeon M has a 5700K 90CRI LED that puts out over 800 lumens at the LED (so slightly less than the Cree) I wonder why Cree over Philips this time. Pure output?


----------



## markr6

Pretty cool they're in stock before the ETA of 9/24. Like when I ordered my SC5w OP. Maybe they're being modest with those dates to make everyone happy 

Can't wait for some reviews. SC5Fd doesn't have nearly the output I want, so it will be nice to see what this emitter can do at 800/870lm!


----------



## twistedraven

Received the H600FD a couple days ago. Don't have my 62D on me at the moment, but will do a 3-way comparison between the 219B at 4500k, the Luxeon T at 5000k, and the Easywhite at 5000k. Also, the frosted lens gives more diffusion than I was expecting, so I will put scotch tape on the other two emitters to be more fair to them. The dark ring in the H600FD's beam is a camera artifact, and not visible in person.

But for now, here are a couple pics:


----------



## markr6

Looks great!! Too floody for me, but I'm sure keeping an eye out for a "regular" flavor in the future without getting my hopes up!


----------



## wormyian

Cant wait for mine to arrive ordered 2 of each and a few others to try how long do they usually take to arrive once paid for to the UK


----------



## Mr Floppy

Looks like there is a hotspot still. Beam looks pretty good to me for a head lamp


----------



## newbie66

Hmm, looks nice. Still able to use protected batteries from the specs. The tint also looks like true white. Would be nice to have outdoor shots for additional comparison.


----------



## twistedraven

In person, I can't really see a hotspot. The camera did some funny things, like making the transition from hotspot to spill more apparent on both the L11C and the H600FD, and creating that dark ring around both lights' coronas. The tints are very accurate to what I see in person, however.

Tint wise, I think this emitter has the slightest amount of yellow to it in comparison to the 219B (and from memory, the Luxeon T), but color temperature-wise, I think it's better and more neutral than the 219B for sure.


----------



## insanefred

Finally got my H600fc mk3 last night. I barely got to play with it, I was just dead tired. But here are some first impressions:

Tint is a tad warmer than my H600w (3560k for the h600fc versus 3700k for the H600w) the colors don't 'pop' they have better contrast and look less washed out. Light greens, pinks and oranges do have a little more pop to them though. The tint is less white, but strangely comfortable, you just want to shine it on things and space off. (maybe because I was really tired, but I didn't feel that way with my other lights).
Frosted lens is really comfortable to use, hard to explain, no more tunnel vision but just enough throw. It's like watching your bright TV in the pitch dark, little irritating your your eyes vs watching it with some ambient light.
I suspect the 800 lumen mode isn't 800, but more like 1200 lumens. The 645 turbo of the h600w is bright, but the 800 of the h600fc is clearly brighter doing a ceiling bounce test. I am going to retest tonight to make sure.
My cat approves, she kept rubbing against it when I showed it to her. She didn't do this with my sc5fd.


----------



## Sulik

Owners, can you test 4 click. It shows voltage or percents? What it show on 2xCR123 & fully chared Li-Ion?


----------



## snowlover91

insanefred said:


> Finally got my H600fc mk3 last night. I barely got to play with it, I was just dead tired. But here are some first impressions:
> 
> Tint is a tad warmer than my H600w (3560k for the h600fc versus 3700k for the H600w) the colors don't 'pop' they have better contrast and look less washed out. Light greens, pinks and oranges do have a little more pop to them though. The tint is less white, but strangely comfortable, you just want to shine it on things and space off. (maybe because I was really tired, but I didn't feel that way with my other lights).
> Frosted lens is really comfortable to use, hard to explain, no more tunnel vision but just enough throw. It's like watching your bright TV in the pitch dark, little irritating your your eyes vs watching it with some ambient light.
> I suspect the 800 lumen mode isn't 800, but more like 1200 lumens. The 645 turbo of the h600w is bright, but the 800 of the h600fc is clearly brighter doing a ceiling bounce test. I am going to retest tonight to make sure.
> My cat approves, she kept rubbing against it when I showed it to her. She didn't do this with my sc5fd.



Would love to see beamshots comparing the SC5fd and the H600fc! Also when you send back your SC5fd you can swap it for the warmer version maybe! Thanks for posting your initial impressions.


----------



## twistedraven

It is interesting to see the easywhites' kelvin readings lower than what they're advertised as on Zebralight's website. It was mentioned earlier that the SCFD was more around 4700 kelvin I believe? Compared to 5000. I know for sure my D variant is not as cool as my Luxeon T rated at 5000k based off memory. Might even be interesting to buy a second H600FD to compare the two tints, then sell one off.


----------



## insanefred

I got some outdoor trail beam shots. Would you rather them be on auto white balance or at 5000k or 4000k?


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye

Can anyone say for sure if these will take two CR123's?


----------



## Sulik

I tested 2xCR123 in my ZL H600Fc. All modes work correctly. Maximal 6 volt, why not?
But ZL models has not engraving and some models looks the same. So you must be 100% sure that this is new 6V model. Older models has 4.2 V maximum officialy & 5.5 V unofficialy. Using 2xCR123 in mark 2 or older models is not firesafe!


----------



## recDNA

insanefred said:


> It just popped up here (I think). Unless it is a typo, how are they getting 85 CRI from the XM-L2? Did Cree update their LEDs or was the XM-L2 capable of this already and just wasn't available for us consumers?


I've had one I got in a v11rvn for almost a year. They've been around but sparse supply lately.

I find nothing about this on ZL website. Where are you guys getting this info?

SC5w lists no CRI.

Only 83-85 CRI I see are in MK III headlamps.


----------



## Sulik

recDNA, push big, red button "compare all models". 

Owners of H600F mark 3, test M1 mode runtime, please!


----------



## KeepingItLight

insanefred said:


> I got some outdoor trail beam shots. Would you rather them be on auto white balance or at 5000k or 4000k?




Thanks, Fred. My own preference is for a 5000K white-balance.


----------



## KeepingItLight

Sulik said:


> I tested 2xCR123 in my ZL H600Fc. All modes work correctly. Maximal 6 volt, why not?



One reason might be current draw. I believe CR123A batteries are rated for maximum currents of 1.5A. Do you know if your Zebralights are pulling more current than this on their brightest settings?

Why do you suppose Zebralight has not rated these lights for CR123A? Is there a conspiracy to prevent us from knowing that CR123A batteries work fine in these lights?


----------



## recDNA

KeepingItLight said:


> One reason might be current draw. I believe CR123A batteries are rated for maximum currents of 1.5A. Do you know if your Zebralights are pulling more current than this on their brightest settings?
> 
> Why do you suppose Zebralight has not rated these lights for CR123A? Is there a conspiracy to prevent us from knowing that CR123A batteries work fine in these lights?


Well Zebralight certifies CR123A for the sc32w and it pulls 2.2 to 2.4 amps in H1 on primary. I contacted Surefire to get max safe current and could not get a firm answer however some of their old hotwires did pull more than 1.5 amps. I was very frustrated that I could not get a firm answer from Surefire on their batteries. Tried phone and email and google search. I do know the CR123A has some sort of safety circuit built in but I don't know how good it is. Personally, I think 1.5 amps is ideal because above that it gets hot so fast it is kind of useless even if it is safe.

PID monitors led temperature but not battery temperature and primary gets quite hot in my CR123A so I don't use H1.

I would never load multiple CR123A in any flashlight unless from the same lot and I have checked with multimeter. I have also found it is important to check again after first couple of uses because sometimes one battery sags more than the others.


----------



## KeepingItLight

recDNA said:


> Well Zebralight certifies CR123A for the sc32w and it pulls 2.2 to 2.4 amps in H1 on primary.
> 
> ...
> 
> PID monitors led temperature but not battery temperature and primary gets quite hot in my [SC32w] so I don't use H1.



Checking the *Sanyo CR123A Specification*, I see that maximum continuous discharge is rated at 1.5A, while maximum pulse discharge is 3.5A. Sanyo includes this note: “Current value for obtaining 1.0V cell voltage when pulse is applied for 15 seconds at 50% discharge depth at 23°C.”

I do not know about the *Zebralight SC32w*, but if its PID is anything like the *Zebralight SC62w*, then output (and current draw) begins falling rapidly in high mode. 

I do not know why Zebralight has certified the SC32w for use with CR123A. I do not know what levels of current the SC32w demands. If I were told that the SC32w draws significantly more than 1.5A, and then I were forced to speculate—which I am grossly unqualified to do—I might guess that output falls quickly enough that current draws over 1.5A fall into the “pulse” category. Watch out, though. My self-applied epithet is “King of the Plausible.” Unfortunately, that does make me right!

Another plausible idea I have had concerns drivers. Most of the flashlights that accept both 1x18650 and 2xCR123A use some sort of a buck driver. Famously, Zebralights use buck/boost drivers. At the end of a run, the boost part of the driver demands increasing levels of current in order to maintain constant voltage. Buck drivers do not. 

Consider the low-voltage protection circuits built into the SC62w. They are designed to cutoff at 2.7v. At higher levels (somewhere above 3v?), they step down. Suppose the step-downs occur at 3.3v. That would mean that two CR123A batteries have been driven down to 1.65v each. Prior to the step-down, when the CR123A batteries are producing, say, 1.7v each, the boost driver of a Zebralight will be sucking much more current out of them than it does when the batteries are fresh at 3.0v each. Is this safe?

Let me emphasize that all of the above is only my speculation. Any or all of it may be mere fantasy.




recDNA said:


> I contacted Surefire to get max safe current and could not get a firm answer however some of their old hotwires did pull more than 1.5 amps. I was very frustrated that I could not get a firm answer from Surefire on their batteries. Tried phone and email and google search.



I find this to be disappointing, too. 

When a battery manufacturer has published specifications stating that its CR123A batteries are designed for a maximum continuous discharge of 1.5A, any flashlight company that goes on record saying that higher currents are safe is certainly on shaky ground. 

Even supposing that the higher currents were safe, a company’s legal department might not allow it to go public with such statements.




recDNA said:


> I would never load multiple CR123A in any flashlight unless from the same lot and I have checked with multimeter. I have also found it is important to check again after first couple of uses because sometimes one battery sags more than the others.



I think you are right to be wary of CR123A batteries when they are placed in series. 

In closing, let me reiterate my rhetorical questions from above.

_Why do you suppose Zebralight has not rated these lights for CR123A? Is there a conspiracy to prevent us from knowing that CR123A batteries work fine in these lights?_​ 
For myself, *I am happy to follow the recommendations of the engineers at Zebralight.* I’m just that kind of guy. Others may choose to do differently.


----------



## AEDer

Hello everyone! My Fc has trouble with m1 mode. In this mod rantime only 7h not 30h( 3100mah Panasonic). For example H1 runtime is >8h and it brighter then m1 and other mod work correctly.
There is one more report about this bug so I wonder if it is global error of Fc/Fd?
Could you test runtime of this mod?


----------



## twistedraven

I will charge my battery up tonight and give it a test for tomorrow.


----------



## insanefred

AEDer said:


> Hello everyone! My Fc has trouble with m1 mode. In this mod rantime only 7h not 30h( 3100mah Panasonic). For example H1 runtime is >8h and it brighter then m1 and other mod work correctly.
> There is one more report about this bug so I wonder if it is global error of Fc/Fd?
> Could you test runtime of this mod?



So far, mine has been running for a total of 15 hours on M1. (5 yesterday and 10 today) no problems at all.


----------



## AEDer

insanefred said:


> So far, mine has been running for a total of 15 hours on M1. (5 yesterday and 10 today) no problems at all.


Is flashlight became warm while operation in m1?
Current consumption of mine is about 400mA (in h600II about 100mA at the same 60 lm mod)and flashlight became significantly warm.


----------



## insanefred

AEDer said:


> Is flashlight became warm while operation in m1?
> Current consumption of mine is about 400mA (in h600II about 100mA at the same 60 lm mod)and flashlight became significantly warm.



Mine made it to approx. 17 hours, it got hot, then stepped down. Battery was somewhere around 2.75v when I took it out.


----------



## AEDer

Interesting 17h is not enough but much better then 7h. 
I desided to exchange mine Fc ,but I waiting for at least one review about normal m1 mod.


----------



## insanefred

AEDer said:


> Interesting 17h is not enough but much better then 7h.
> I desided to exchange mine Fc ,but I waiting for at least one review about normal m1 mod.



I made the observation that the 800 lumen mode maybe much higher than 800, more like 1000-1200 lumens in my H600fc mk3 thread here 

I wonder if the h600fc M1 mode is more like 80 lumens and the H2 107 mode is more like 150.


----------



## twistedraven

Well, this is most disheartening. On my H600fd, my M1 lasted 6 and a half hours before stepping down to low. The battery indicator blinks 1/4 now. This is far off Zebralight's 30 hour claim. My light was rather warm throughout the entire process as well.

Tested using Olight 3600mah battery.


----------



## AEDer

insanefred said:


> I made the observation that the 800 lumen mode maybe much higher than 800, more like 1000-1200 lumens in my H600fc mk3 thread here
> 
> I wonder if the h600fc M1 mode is more like 80 lumens and the H2 107 mode is more like 150.


I measured current in mine it is the same as h600 ,the only exception is m1. And hicri led have lower lm per watt


----------



## twistedraven

Has anybody contacted Zebralight on this?


----------



## AEDer

Reply from zebra:
"The 30h runtimes are tested results from the first production batch. If there were defective lights, I don't think it would be that many, percentage wise."


----------



## twistedraven

So basically, if we report that we have defective ones, we can return them or get service on them?


----------



## recDNA

twistedraven said:


> So basically, if we report that we have defective ones, we can return them or get service on them?


Do you really think they will test it to see if they get 30 hours?
There is something I don't get here. If you test amps at 400 mA can't you just divide that into 90% of supposed mAh of battery and get an approximate runtime?


----------



## twistedraven

Well, Zebralight is supposed to honor their 12 month replacement/repair policy if there are defects. I think only getting 6 hours from medium1 is a pretty large defect.

I will test the medium2 setting today to see if it's normal or not.


----------



## Sulik

Can anyone test PID? I think mine don't do stepdown. Just lights 800 lumen & heats a lot. In theory it should gradually reduce the brightness depending on the temperature. The temperature rises , the brightness is not changed. Mode H1 can also Rejection as M1.


----------



## insanefred

Sulik said:


> Can anyone test PID? I think mine don't do stepdown. Just lights 800 lumen & heats a lot. In theory it should gradually reduce the brightness depending on the temperature. The temperature rises , the brightness is not changed. Mode H1 can also Rejection as M1.



To add, H2 107 lumen mode is only giving me 8.5 hours. That is a bit less than 11 spec'ed.


----------



## twistedraven

Tested m2 a bit earlier. 6 hours in and the zebralight's voltage indicator still gave 4 flashes. 

Tested my h1 pid as well. Mine is working, as I was able to see every little micro stepdown and step-up it was doing in brightness. I took it into a dark room and paid careful attention. After about 30 seconds it started to go into PID.


----------



## Sulik

Thank for your testing. And now the question. ZL is able now to send fully working flashlight? Or it take maby month to fix all serial problems with new 6 volt electronics?


----------



## insanefred

I get the feeling that Zebralight is quietly rectifying this issue. Both H600fc/d versions on back-order now.


----------



## CrazyRunnerBrad

I wouldn't read too much into the "back order" listed on their website. I ordered my H600C about a week ago and it arrived a few days later, even though the website listed "back order" for status


----------



## Shuy

I ordered Fd model sometime ago, but have not been shipped yet. They may be delaying shipping if there's problems with the lights?


----------



## wormyian

I orders a load of zebralight headtorches some were back order some pre order etc etc and they all came at the same time just over a week


----------



## Sulik

I ask all new owners to check M1 mode & others likely. 
I've already shiped mine back to the China & waiting for refund. I would like to purchase a fully working model as soon as possible. 
Just want to be sure that ZL fixed all problems with electronics.


----------



## Sulik

Insanefred is there any problems with SC5Fc? It must be the same electronics.


----------



## insanefred

Sulik said:


> Insanefred is there any problems with SC5Fc? It must be the same electronics.




Look here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-MK3-and-sc5fd-beam-shots-plus-quick-thoughts

Those are the things I noted before returning mine.


----------



## jeffsf

I've had my eyes on this release and am going to buy one. Unfortunately Going Gear doesn't carry Zebralight any more. Is there a "CPF-preferred vendor" that sells these or is direct from Zebralight the only option?


----------



## LessDark

So I finally received my H600FC after one month and a week! So I did a quick and crappy comparison with my phone between the H600FC, the Wizard pro warm and the H600 MKI.

First H600 MKI, H600FC, Wizard pro warm.





[/URL] 

 

[/IMG]


----------



## KeepingItLight

5000K looks pretty good!


----------



## kj2

The Wizard looks warmer, am I right?


----------



## LessDark

kj2 said:


> The Wizard looks warmer, am I right?



I would say more yellow, while the H600FC is more brown(which is what I prefer) . A bit hard to see in the pictures but the H600 MKI is quite cool.


----------



## kj2

The Wizard Pro warm that I've is warm compared with my H602w. I prefer the ZL UI, but the built and feel of the AT is also great. Think I'll stick with my Wizard.


----------



## recDNA

Is your medium mode run time satisfactory?


----------



## LessDark

I have not tested the runtimes, but it does at least not get hot at all in M1 mode like some others have reported.



recDNA said:


> Is your medium mode run time satisfactory?


----------



## Sulik

LessDark said:


> but it does at least not get hot at all in M1 mode like some others have reported.


On russian forum Fonarevka user "r34" tested M1 runime and the result is "22 hours without heat". 22 hours is less then 30 hours on offical site.
I think the problem with new 6 volt electronics is still not solved.


----------



## waxing twilight

Has anyone found anything out regarding run times, etc? I was waiting for a regular op reflector H600 MkIII release, but haven't heard anything yet and was wondering if ZL might have decided to move in the XP-L/XHP-35 direction for the H600 regular beam as they appear to be doing with the SC600 mkIII's.

Not sure how many lights had this run time problem or if ZL had notified anyone of a possible issue or update etc? Specs on the ZL website for H600Fc/d mkIII and the ZL comparison spreadsheet seem to indicate something is amiss, as the output is lower on the mkIII although the spreadsheet denotes higher output, higher efficiency for mkIII.


----------



## twistedraven

Can't compare apples to oranges. The XML2 Easywhite in the new H600s probably aren't as efficient as to regular XML2s, especially since they're having to boost the voltage to run them.


----------



## Jobeanie123

waxing twilight said:


> Specs on the ZL website for H600Fc/d mkIII and the ZL comparison spreadsheet seem to indicate something is amiss, as the output is lower on the mkIII although the spreadsheet denotes higher output, higher efficiency for mkIII.



The higher output and higher efficiency quote is a bit vague because there is no frame of reference. I wonder if they were comparing it to the SC62d/c, which are using the Luxeon T emitter. In which case, it's brighter and more lumens per watt. Part of using that as a comparison makes sense, as they're both high CRI, but it's still misleading without saying what it's compared to. Another part of me wonders whether "brighter and more efficient" was meant for the SC600 MK III using the XHP-35, and the output voltage was meant for the 6v Easywhite emitters of the H600Fd/c.

Zebralight told me that the early lights had the wrong firmware, and that any H600Fd/c shipped after the 8th of October will not have that issue. I'd like to test it as soon as I get one, and I'd be curious to see if anyone else gets their hands on a new one in the meantime. 

I think Zebralight is smart enough not to release a clear-lens version of the H600Fd/c because the quad-die Easywhites wouldn't have a perfect beam pattern, even with orange peel. They may be running into a heat issue with the XHP35 since Cree lists it as 13W over the XM-L2's 10W; without cooling, they step down enough as it is! However, that's pure speculation. Maybe they just want the SC600 series to stand out again with the XHP35. They practically replaced the SC600 Mk II L2 with the SC62 given how close their outputs were, but the SC600 Mk III should shine bright once more!


----------



## waxing twilight

> Can't compare apples to oranges. The XML2 Easywhite in the new H600s probably aren't as efficient as to regular XML2s, especially since they're having to boost the voltage to run them.


Good point, I hadn't considered if there would be an efficiency difference between easywhite and neutralwhite, but I guess there almost should be expected to be one, especially being run at different voltages.


> The higher output and higher efficiency quote is a bit vague because there is no frame of reference. I wonder if they were comparing it to the SC62d/c, which are using the Luxeon T emitter. In which case, it's brighter and more lumens per watt. Part of using that as a comparison makes sense, as they're both high CRI, but it's still misleading without saying what it's compared to. Another part of me wonders whether "brighter and more efficient" was meant for the SC600 MK III using the XHP-35, and the output voltage was meant for the 6v Easywhite emitters of the H600Fd/c.


I agree, I had been taking it as comparison to the H600 mk II's, it seems more likely that one of your proposed alternate points of reference would make more sense.


----------



## LessDark

Hm so people with lights from before october the 8th should send theirs back for a fix? 
Did anyone do that?


----------



## twistedraven

I contacted Zebralight about replacing/servicing mine, but they said to ship it to china. They didn't give any pre-paid shipping label or anything. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to ship it myself? Why would i pay 30-40bucks in international shipping for an 80 dollar light?


----------



## LessDark

twistedraven said:


> I contacted Zebralight about replacing/servicing mine, but they said to ship it to china. They didn't give any pre-paid shipping label or anything. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to ship it myself? Why would i pay 30-40bucks in international shipping for an 80 dollar light?



Indeed, I don't think I'll bother sending it back if I have to pay for the shipping...Zebralight should fix this.


----------



## insanefred

LessDark said:


> Hm so people with lights from before october the 8th should send theirs back for a fix?
> Did anyone do that?



ouple of days ago, I have not heard back since.
I did a c


----------



## Sulik

I shiped mine 06 October and it tracked as delivered 22 October, but ZL don't do refund. I opened a dispute in paypal (today is 44 day of payment). Still waiting for refund... I doubt that I buy fixed mark 3 in future.


----------



## waxing twilight

Apparently the High CRI MkIII's are much less efficient than I had been considering. I emailed ZL for clarification, and to inquire if H600w mkIII is plannned, and they gave me a projected release date for the H600w mkIII for those interested.

I received this response from ZL yesterday:
"We will release H600(w) Mk III, with XHP35, in 3-4 months. 

Hight CRI LEDs, such as those in the H600Fc/d III are usually much less efficient."


----------



## Jobeanie123

waxing twilight said:


> Hight CRI LEDs, such as those in the H600Fc/d III are usually much less efficient."



I don't know how hard they're driving them, but the XM-L2 Easywhite specsheet says ~1,100 lumens at 13w. Obviously, that depends on the bin. The XHP35 says ~1,800 lumens at the same wattage. The XPL does ~1,200 lumens at only 10w. 

I don't know how much is lost to the specific bin that Zebralight put in the Mk IIIs, and I don't know how much is lost OTF, but as far as lumens per watt, higher CRI is definitely not as efficient. However, certain people may find it worth the tradeoff. I'm going to try one myself as soon as they're back in stock, because the higher CRI sounds tempting. I have a Nichia 219a (85CRI) light, and I definitely prefer that over the 65CRI of my SC62 (cool white). Naturally, the Easywhites and the Nichias are going to look different, but I'm sure I'll like either one more than cool white. 

That said, the new SC600w Mk III using the XHP35 has the typical CRI listed as 80 on Zebralight's spreadsheet, so maybe an H600w Mk III putting out 1,500 lumens at 80 CRI is a better option. That lumen figure is a complete guess, but I'm curious to see what happens with it. Only time will tell.


----------



## KeepingItLight

Sulik said:


> I shiped mine 06 October and it tracked as delivered 22 October, but ZL don't do refund. I opened a dispute in paypal (today is 44 day of payment). Still waiting for refund... I doubt that I buy fixed mark 3 in future.




If you are still limited to 45 days, you probably did the right thing. 

Check your PayPal terms. In many countries, including the USA, new purchases are now given a 180-day dispute period.


----------



## twistedraven

And here I thought my H600FD would be a keeper. It is-- for now, but the possibility have having 1500ish otf Lumens with 80ish CRI and no diffuser sounds even better. Of course it all depends on the tint of the XHP-35. Cree's website does say it has Easywhite binning, so I hope Zebralight chooses to use those. The XHP-35 uses 4dies very close to each other instead of spaced apart a little ways like the XML2 Easywhite.


----------



## markr6

twistedraven said:


> And here I thought my H600FD would be a keeper. It is-- for now, but the possibility have having 1500ish otf Lumens with 80ish CRI and no diffuser sounds even better. Of course it all depends on the tint of the XHP-35. Cree's website does say it has Easywhite binning, so I hope Zebralight chooses to use those. The XHP-35 uses 4dies very close to each other instead of spaced apart a little ways like the XML2 Easywhite.



Exciting stuff! But my H600w will be hard to replace. I'm not real interested in max lumens regarding headlamps. It's more about _runtime _in that 150-400lm region. That's just based on my personal use; I like that 150lm mode for backpacking which is more than enough.


----------



## Jobeanie123

I just got an email back from Zebralight saying they're expecting a shipment from China of some H600Fd/c in a few days. Maybe I can finally get my hands on one!


----------



## insanefred

markr6 said:


> Exciting stuff! But my H600w will be hard to replace. I'm not real interested in max lumens regarding headlamps. It's more about _runtime _in that 150-400lm region. That's just based on my personal use; I like that 150lm mode for backpacking which is more than enough.



This is why I mentioned that the H600fc/d mk3 is an excellent companion to my h600w, not a replacement.


----------



## markr6

insanefred said:


> This is why I mentioned that the H600fc/d mk3 is an excellent companion to my h600w, not a replacement.



I was thinking more along the lines of the XHP35. But those c/d models look nice, too.


----------



## insanefred

Jobeanie123 said:


> I don't know how hard they're driving them, but the XM-L2 Easywhite specsheet says ~1,100 lumens at 13w. Obviously, that depends on the bin. The XHP35 says ~1,800 lumens at the same wattage. The XPL does ~1,200 lumens at only 10w.
> 
> I don't know how much is lost to the specific bin that Zebralight put in the Mk IIIs, and I don't know how much is lost OTF, but as far as lumens per watt, higher CRI is definitely not as efficient. However, certain people may find it worth the tradeoff. I'm going to try one myself as soon as they're back in stock, because the higher CRI sounds tempting. I have a Nichia 219a (85CRI) light, and I definitely prefer that over the 65CRI of my SC62 (cool white). Naturally, the Easywhites and the Nichias are going to look different, but I'm sure I'll like either one more than cool white.
> 
> That said, the new SC600w Mk III using the XHP35 has the typical CRI listed as 80 on Zebralight's spreadsheet, so maybe an H600w Mk III putting out 1,500 lumens at 80 CRI is a better option. That lumen figure is a complete guess, but I'm curious to see what happens with it. Only time will tell.




IMO, these headlamps have become efficient and bright enough that I now look at beam quality, tint and color rendering. Of course I have nothing against better efficiency, but I rarely ever need more than 200 lumens other than showing off. (Even for SAR).


----------



## insanefred

markr6 said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of the XHP35. But those c/d models look nice, too.




I'd expect the a H600w mk3 with XHP35 would be the upgrade to the H600w XM-L. The H600F is the companion.


----------



## markr6

insanefred said:


> IMO, these headlamps have become efficient and bright enough that I now look at beam quality, tint and color rendering. Of course I have nothing against better efficiency, but I rarely ever need more than 200 lumens other than showing off. (Even for SAR).



Yeah, any time I use 1020 lumens on my H600w (rare), I hope noone is around because they're probably thinking "wow, that guy is lost!" 65lm or 150lm is more than enough for hiking around, even off trail.

Those high lumens are usually for trying to make up for throw, or just plain playing around.


----------



## LessDark

I'm completely the oposite, I always want it to be as bright as possible when I hike during the night. I just bring a few extra batteries instead.


----------



## insanefred

LessDark said:


> I'm completely the oposite, I always want it to be as bright as possible when I hike during the night. I just bring a few extra batteries instead.




You should try taking them sunglasses off some time. :laughing:

If I could, I'd even hike without any light at night, but then I would get lost.


----------



## Sulik

> Ticket status: Completed
> Department: Sales
> Subject: CR123 compatibility with 6volt driver
> 
> No, please don't use CR123s for our H600, SC600 lights.
> 
> Sincerely,
> ZebraLight, Inc.
> 2908 Story Rd.
> W Irving, TX 75038


Hmmm... But I want!


----------



## evgeniy

AEDer said:


> Hello everyone! My Fc has trouble with m1 mode. In this mod rantime only 7h not 30h( 3100mah Panasonic). For example H1 runtime is >8h and it brighter then m1 and other mod work correctly.
> There is one more report about this bug so I wonder if it is global error of Fc/Fd?
> Could you test runtime of this mod?



Zebra fixed this bug in fresh lights ?


----------



## Sulik

evgeniy said:


> Zebra fixed this bug in fresh lights ?


People don't care about such trifles. Not even all rejected are returned. People use... 
Minority testing their lights. The majority relies on data from the official website.


----------



## evgeniy

Sulik said:


> People don't care about such trifles.



7...17h instead of 30 - it's clear bug.


----------



## KeepingItLight

evgeniy said:


> Zebra fixed this bug in fresh lights ?





Jobeanie123 said:


> Zebralight told me that the early lights had the wrong firmware, and that any H600Fd/c shipped after the 8th of October will not have that issue. I'd like to test it as soon as I get one, and I'd be curious to see if anyone else gets their hands on a new one in the meantime.



According to the post above, ZebraLight fixed this early last month. I am waiting, myself, for another couple of months. I will likely buy the *ZebraLight H600Fd Mk. III* early next year.


----------



## insanefred

evgeniy said:


> Zebra fixed this bug in fresh lights ?



I have not received my replacement, I will try to remember to up date this thread when I find out for sure.



Sulik said:


> People don't care about such trifles. Not even all rejected are returned. People use...
> Minority testing their lights. The majority relies on data from the official website.



There will be a lot who just won't have time to test theirs, and some that wont care and even more so who will not know about the issue at all. 



evgeniy said:


> 7...17h instead of 30 - it's clear bug.



It is, I can understand if I was getting 27hr for a 30hr spec'ed, but 17hrs is almost half that let alone 7hr!


----------



## evgeniy

KeepingItLight said:


> According to the post above, ZebraLight fixed this early last month. I am waiting, myself, for another couple of months. I will likely buy the *ZebraLight H600Fd Mk. III* early next year.



I wait answers from peoples, who received fixed 600Fc/d.


----------



## evgeniy

insanefred said:


> It is, I can understand if I was getting 27hr for a 30hr spec'ed, but 17hrs is almost half that let alone 7hr!



Yes. +-10% is normal - slightly different LEDs, etc. 
But not -70%.


----------



## Shuy

Yay, Fd arrived after long wait, just in time for winter. Had hobby charger and pair of NCR18650 waiting. Tested it with the dog outside, seemed pretty good. Diffusion is about perfect but doesn't throw the bright area quite as far as I expected in my wild imaginations. Tint is as neutrally white as it gets as far as I can tell.


----------



## Jobeanie123

Shuy said:


> Yay, Fd arrived after long wait, just in time for winter. Had hobby charger and pair of NCR18650 waiting. Tested it with the dog outside, seemed pretty good. Diffusion is about perfect but doesn't throw the bright area quite as far as I expected in my wild imaginations. Tint is as neutrally white as it gets as far as I can tell.



I just ordered one last night. Now you've got me excited again! I'm definitely glad I'll have it for the winter. I think I'll be adding it to my EDC until the days get longer again.


----------



## Jobeanie123

My H600Fd is here! It came so quick! I absolutely love the thing. The beam is so smooth, the hotspot fades seamlessly into a super wide spill. The tint is delightful. I have a Nichia 219a light that is pretty rosy/magenta compared to this, and my BLF A6 in 3D tint has an awful green/yellow cast when you compare them side by side. I haven't had the pleasure of using a 92CRI Nichia 219b, but I'm looking forward to comparing them. Two are in the mail, I'll try to update when they arrive. 

This feels to be on the warmer side of 5000k (maybe? I haven't used enough lights to compare, I guess), but it's my favorite tint of what I own so far. 







It looks blue in this picture for some mild emphasis. Otherwise, it just looked black and white! I lit this with my BLF A6, so the tints match up very close. There's a very mild anodization imperfection at the top, but it's nothing to worry about. 






Bottom line, I love it. I would recommend it if you're looking for a headlamp.


----------



## twistedraven

It's definitely on the warmer side of 5000k I think-- perhaps closer to 4800k (I'm just throwing out a wild guess here.) It isn't that much cooler than my 219B light, but it's definitely less tan.


----------



## Jobeanie123

twistedraven said:


> It's definitely on the warmer side of 5000k I think-- perhaps closer to 4800k (I'm just throwing out a wild guess here.) It isn't that much cooler than my 219B light, but it's definitely less tan.



I'm happy that it's on the warmer side. 5000k was scaring me because it's so close to being in cool white territory if it were just a few hundred K off!


----------



## Jobeanie123

I took some beamshots comparing my H600Fd to my SC62. White balance was set to auto, so it's not fair to compare them. The rest was manual. 

SC62: 





H600Fd: 





The spill to throw ratio is an excellent compromise. It illuminates my entire field of view, albeit dimly at the edges. I'm really enjoying the smooth beam and the tint. I'm performing a runtime test on medium1 now to see if they've actually fixed the issue that it was having. Hopefully I won't have to update for another 30 hours!


----------



## waxing twilight

Wow, nice! I was trying to wait for the regular spill + spot versions, but I might have to change that. Are those beam shots on H1? I might have to go with a floody if they have truly fixed the runtimes, looks like plenty of throw for nearly all of my uses where I might not have a thrower handy. What would you estimate the distance to the trees to be, ~50yds?


----------



## Jobeanie123

waxing twilight said:


> Wow, nice! I was trying to wait for the regular spill + spot versions, but I might have to change that. Are those beam shots on H1? I might have to go with a floody if they have truly fixed the runtimes, looks like plenty of throw for nearly all of my uses where I might not have a thrower handy. What would you estimate the distance to the trees to be, ~50yds?



Yes, those are both on H1 before any throttling occurs. Google and I estimate the treeline to be about 30 yards from the flashlight. In person, the H600Fd is notably less throwy (unsurprisingly, of course). However, at that distance, you can see that more of the trees are lit up (and lit up more evenly) with the diffuse beam of the H600Fd than the tighter hotspot of the SC62. Overall, I'm enamored with the light. Everything about it is wonderful.


----------



## Jobeanie123

Runtime tests for this on medium 1 are also complete. I got about 30 hours, 30 minutes with an LG MJ1 before it stepped down to low. After a little while, I measured the voltage at 3.01. I put it back in and turned it on medium again and it stayed on medium without stepping down at all for several minutes before I ended the test with it still shining bright. 

That's more than Zebralight estimates, which makes me happy! It feels like a lot of light to get for such a long period of time on such a small battery; putting that amount of time in perspective while I waited for it was really eye-opening.


----------



## insanefred

I got approximately 29 hours and 30 minutes with my new H600fc on M1, that's close enough for me. ncr18650b


----------



## moses

*Any pure flood coming?*

A couple of quick questions: 

1. Anyone know if Zebralight is coming with a pure flood high CRI version of this rather than 'floody' which is frosted glass? 

2. I see some mention CRI over 90! Wow. Who makes those? My CRI currently is a 85CRI zebralight AA but would love to check out over 90 CRI. 

Thanks,
M


----------



## Sulik

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

On my, bugfixed version, M1 runtime is 33 hours on unprotected Panasonic 3400. But I found *PWM* on 234 lm, 107lm & 2 lm. 

Also 0.01 lm mode is blinking every ~10 minutes.

Old bugs fixed, new bugs added...


----------



## kj2

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

Dealer here has these in stock now. Will wait for awhile..


----------



## y0y0y

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



Sulik said:


> On my, bugfixed version, M1 runtime is 33 hours on unprotected Panasonic 3400. But I found *PWM* on 234 lm, 107lm & 2 lm.
> 
> Also 0.01 lm mode is blinking every ~10 minutes.
> 
> Old bugs fixed, new bugs added...


Sorry to hear about ur bad luck...


----------



## Sulik

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



y0y0y said:


> Sorry to hear about ur bad luck...


I am sorry for ZL *serial* defects. 

All positive of new H600Fc belongs to *Cree*, not ZL. I tired of ZL incompetence. If any other brand starts use Hi-CRI LEDS, I'll buy them instead of ZL. No needs for Armytech examples. ArmyTech - big, fat fraud.


----------



## insanefred

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



Sulik said:


> On my, bugfixed version, M1 runtime is 33 hours on unprotected Panasonic 3400. But I found *PWM* on 234 lm, 107lm & 2 lm.
> 
> Also 0.01 lm mode is blinking every ~10 minutes.
> 
> Old bugs fixed, new bugs added...



How are you checking for PWM? I can't detect any with mine at all with my eyes or camera. I will check the 0.01l mode.


----------



## Jobeanie123

I also cannot detect PWM with my eyes or with my camera. Everything seems okay with my light!


----------



## Jobeanie123

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



moses said:


> 1. Anyone know if Zebralight is coming with a pure flood high CRI version of this rather than 'floody' which is frosted glass?



The Easywhite emitter would make for a less than perfect beam pattern. I think Zebralight will only release these lights with a frosted lens, but maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Sulik

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

WTF they shiped me?!

One more question. Do you have CE logo on the back of flashlight?




2 lm mode PWM.


----------



## insanefred

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



Sulik said:


> WTF they shiped me?!
> 
> One more question. Do you have CE logo on the back of flashlight?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 lm mode PWM.




I have the CE logo on the back of mine, still no PWM, no matter what I do.


----------



## Sulik

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

Insanefred, when you program L2 0.01 lm mode. Are there blinking on first click of doubleclick?


----------



## evgeniy

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



Sulik said:


> 2 lm mode PWM.



It's not a PWM, it's EasyWhite LED (4 segments LED).


----------



## insanefred

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



Sulik said:


> Insanefred, when you program L2 0.01 lm mode. Are there blinking on first click of doubleclick?



Yes, and I do get a blink on the 2.4Lm mode every 10 minutes or so. However, these are way too minor for me to even consider a problem.


----------



## Djonah Inc.

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

just FYI, got some info on the release of the regular h600 series:
- release in 2-3 months
- xhp35
- same length/size as the c/d mk3 

so probably not going to have the problems with having to deal with unprotected 18650's like the new mk3 sc600


----------



## Djonah Inc.

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

a bit off topic, but got info on the use of the sc5 driver in the future:
"no plans on incorporating the sc5 driver in other AA lights anytime soon"


----------



## 18650

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



Sulik said:


> WTF they shiped me?! One more question. Do you have CE logo on the back of flashlight? 2 lm mode PWM.


 I don't know what this picture is actually trying to show.


----------



## ZGerman

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



18650 said:


> I don't know what this picture is actually trying to show.



It shows what the OP said it shows, PWM.

I can make out about 15 scanlines in that picture. But to be fair, i would have to see that shot in motion to see if those scanlines actually move.

Read up on PWM and compare stills and animated shots of PWM, then you understand OPs picture.


----------



## evgeniy

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

Currently I received H600Fc and Fd lights and tested, white paper + photo camera with RAW, set white balance in Photoshop.
(I understand, that's my method isn't true precision)

- ZebraLight H602 : 4600-4650(auto by camera) 4500-4600K (manual), edges is slightly greenish (because naked Led).
- ZebraLight H600W (I) : 4300-4350(auto) 4250-4350K (manual) 
- ZebraLight H600FD : 4800(auto) 4900-5000K (manual)
- ZebraLight H600FC : 4050(auto) 3950-4000K (manual)

for compare,
- Osram halogen Decostar51 IRC lamp (3000K for 50W model, I tested 20w), 2650 auto, 2650-2700 (manual), very good color.
- Solux halogen 3500K lamp : 3550K auto and manual. Excellent white color.

Fd is more contrast (because has more blue light in spectra).

-----------------------------
I don't see PWM in all modes.


----------



## psychbeat

^^^*thanks 
Makes me want an FC to complement my h600w which is a bit too cool for me


----------



## maukka

Got my H600Fd mk3 today and measured it with i1Pro. Not one bit too cool for my tastes and nice diffuse spill. This is my first Zebralight and cannot but marvel the awesome feel of the switch


----------



## maukka

Oh, and a Keeppower 18650 3500 mAh doesn't fit, too wide. Protected EagTac 3500 mAh - no problem.


----------



## twistedraven

maukka said:


> Got my H600Fd mk3 today and measured it with i1Pro. Not one bit too cool for my tastes and nice diffuse spill. This is my first Zebralight and cannot but marvel the awesome feel of the switch



Nice! Do you have measurements of any other emitters to compare it to?


----------



## maukka

Here's EagTac D25LC2 with a Nichia 219, an Olight S10 and Fenix E05 (2014):















Here's an album with some more measurements:
http://imgur.com/a/Fe5Jh


----------



## sidecross

maukka said:


> Got my H600Fd mk3 today and measured it with i1Pro. Not one bit too cool for my tastes and nice diffuse spill. This is my first Zebralight and cannot but marvel the awesome feel of the switch


I now have the same light and it is a top notch headlamp and a very good general purpose light too.:thumbsup:


----------



## twistedraven

Thanks for the comparisons! I had the Eagle D25LC2 with Nichia at one point, so this helps a lot. It's too bad the N219B is slightly too warm and doesn't have much output, because its tint is really good.


----------



## maukka

maukka said:


> Got my H600Fd mk3 today and measured it with i1Pro. Not one bit too cool for my tastes and nice diffuse spill. This is my first Zebralight and cannot but marvel the awesome feel of the switch



Here's the CRI breakdown on both L1 and H1 modes. L1 is a bit better and the color temp is lower (4390 K vs. 4710 K). M1 sits near L1 at 4420 K. CRI is calculated from R1 to R8.


----------



## sidecross

maukka said:


> Here's the CRI breakdown on both L1 and H1 modes. L1 is a bit better and the color temp is lower (4390 K vs. 4710 K). M1 sits near L1 at 4420 K. CRI is calculated from R1 to R8.


Thank you! :thumbsup:


----------



## twistedraven

Kind of ironic that its color rendering would be slightly better at lower outputs, because at lower levels of light, our eyes' color recognition goes down the drain.


----------



## maukka

Just did a quick 30 minute output over time test on the H600Fd. Room temperature 24°C with no fan. Temperature regulation will gradually lower the light output so that a steady temp of 54°C is reached, which is too hot to handle with bare hands. In my testing, the light output tapered to 46 %. Battery temp after test was 43°C, which shouldn't be too bad.


----------



## sidecross

maukka said:


> Just did a quick 30 minute output over time test on the H600Fd. Room temperature 24°C with no fan. Temperature regulation will gradually lower the light output so that a steady temp of 54°C is reached, which is too hot to handle with bare hands. In my testing, the light output tapered to 46 %. Battery temp after test was 43°C, which shouldn't be too bad.


Thank you!


----------



## maukka

A new runtime graph with a cheap usb fan. Cut off the fan at 30 minutes to see if it drops down to similar levels as before, and it did. After starting the fan @ 40 minutes, output returned to almost previous levels. Temperature on the head was 48°C when the fan was running.

Zebralight promises 2 hr runtime on max level, but this is clearly taking into account the drop in output and current. I would expect about 55-60 minutes on max in cool conditions.


----------



## scs

Thanks for the test.
I wonder if it would get closer to the claimed runtime if you placed it in an ice bath, so PID regulation wouldn't kick in and the light ran more efficiently at a lower temperature


----------



## maukka

I would think that when the PID doesn't kick in, the current is also higher which drains the battery even faster. I'll try and stick the light outside to -10°C and see. I will not put my light meter setup out there but at least it is very easy to see when the light drops down to the lowest mode.


----------



## psychbeat

maukka said:


> I would think that when the PID doesn't kick in, the current is also higher which drains the battery even faster. I'll try and stick the light outside to -10°C and see. I will not put my light meter setup out there but at least it is very easy to see when the light drops down to the lowest mode.



Exactly- H1 is using the PID to make the light as bright as temperature will allow.
Therefore the cooler the light the higher the output which would mean less runtime 

I'm a big fan of my h600w and use it on H1 til the battery is low quite often. The PID really does its job!


----------



## scs

psychbeat said:


> Exactly- H1 is using the PID to make the light as bright as temperature will allow.
> Therefore the cooler the light the higher the output which would mean less runtime
> 
> I'm a big fan of my h600w and use it on H1 til the battery is low quite often. The PID really does its job!



I see. In that case, I think the claimed 2 hour runtime is misleading then: temperature regulation, while necessary, is also being used to justify lowering output, so that a longer runtime can be claimed. Just like almost everyone else.


----------



## psychbeat

scs said:


> I see. In that case, I think the claimed 2 hour runtime is misleading then: temperature regulation, while necessary, is also being used to justify lowering output, so that a longer runtime can be claimed. Just like almost everyone else.



I'm pretty sure in the runtimes on the zl site it there's a disclaimer or asterisk on the PID level runtimes. 

That would really suck if they lowered the MAX output as it's just that. MAXIMUM possible brightness with thermal protection to keep it safe. 

These are pro level lights and they may be too advanced or even confusing to some users. 
Hopefully, they don't dumb them down or nerf them for the masses.


----------



## THE_dAY

Hey maukka, such helpful info you've posted with your charts/graphs on CRI, heat, runtime!
These zebra fans are lucky to have you!


----------



## maukka

Thanks, good to hear these have been useful. I only got interested in flashlights a month or so ago, partly because of the amazing SkyRC MC3000 I got for my general use. Already had all the tools from measuring displays, projectors and televisions.

I plotted the color temp / tint on the CIE chart in the middle of the beam and towards the edge of the spill. Already posted this to the favorite color temp thread, but here it is.







The tint doesn't change much at all and is difficult to notice by eye. The frosted lens might work to the light's advantage here. Also all the plotted points lie near the neutral black body radiator line so the color cast is minimal.

The tint shift is much more noticeable on the Olight S10 shown below. It turns from relatively neutral yet greenish white to purplish blue at the edges. This might explain why some people (me included) don't like its tint at all.


----------



## scs

psychbeat said:


> I'm pretty sure in the runtimes on the zl site it there's a disclaimer or asterisk on the PID level runtimes.
> 
> That would really suck if they lowered the MAX output as it's just that. MAXIMUM possible brightness with thermal protection to keep it safe.
> 
> These are pro level lights and they may be too advanced or even confusing to some users.
> Hopefully, they don't dumb them down or nerf them for the masses.



I'm aware of the asterisk.

ZL's disclaimer associated with the PID mentions only that runtime is affected by ambient conditions, but does not address the corresponding effects on output.

Cooler temperature (I'm NOT talking about so cool that it's frigid and adversely affects the cell or the light) is typically considered favorable to flashlight performance, right? But in this case, cooler temperatuere actually reduces runtime as you pointed out. Cooler temperature, a favorable condition negatively affects runtime.

And guess what, because of the PID, the hotter the ambient temperature is, the more it continues to reduce output, and the runtime increases accordingly. Heat, a typically unfavorable condition actually increases the runtime perhaps even exceeding the specs!

Don't manufactuers typically provide disclaimers or qualify their specs to suggest that those are the OPTIMUM performance figures based on testing done in FAVORABLE conditions, and that ACTUAL field performance of their products in LESS FAVORABLE conditions will most likely fall short of the optimum. This doesn't appear to be the case with ZL's claimed runtime. Hence my comment.


----------



## psychbeat

^^uhh yeah but it's BRIGHTER in cooler conditions which on MAXIMUM output is favorable when the mode is designed for the MOST light possible not runtime.


----------



## scs

psychbeat said:


> ^^uhh yeah but it's BRIGHTER in cooler conditions which on MAXIMUM output is favorable when the mode is designed for the MOST light possible not runtime.



That's my point, the disclaimer does NOT mention output, just runtime.


----------



## maukka

Runtime outside in -11°C was 1 hour 7 minutes until the light switched itself to low mode, the same as inside cooled with a fan. Battery was @ 3,36 V which is also exactly the same. The light did get surprisingly warm (44°C max) even in the freezing ambient temps, which means it might have limited the output a bit.

This is at 1 hour mark outside:


----------



## scs

maukka said:


> Runtime outside in -11°C was 1 hour 7 minutes until the light switched itself to low mode, the same as inside cooled with a fan. Battery was @ 3,36 V which is also exactly the same. The light did get surprisingly warm (44°C max) even in the freezing ambient temps, which means it might have limited the output a bit.
> 
> This is at 1 hour mark outside:



Would you happen to have access to a cryo chamber? 
Much thanks for doing that.


----------



## sidecross

psychbeat said:


> I'm pretty sure in the runtimes on the zl site it there's a disclaimer or asterisk on the PID level runtimes.
> 
> That would really suck if they lowered the MAX output as it's just that. MAXIMUM possible brightness with thermal protection to keep it safe.
> 
> These are pro level lights and they may be too advanced or even confusing to some users.
> Hopefully, they don't dumb them down or nerf them for the masses.


I am in total agreemment with your comment; these are not lights meant for those who have no knowledge about lithium batteries and how flashlights may be regulated for top performance and safety.

Personally I do not use my lights at its highest output for anything but bursts of needed light. If I need high output, I use a more powerful light.


----------



## snowlover91

scs said:


> That's my point, the disclaimer does NOT mention output, just runtime.



I can see how it could be misleading in some ways but at the same time they list the output as "approximately" also which lets the user know it may be more or less depending on conditions. For me before purchasing it I read up on the PID technology and knew it would have longer runtimes in hotter environments and shorter in cooler ones. I can see how the average consumer might be upset at this though but I do believe ZL markets more to enthusiasts rather than average consumers, at least it seems that way. They're better than most companies who just use the typical standard which imo needs to change. The only company I've sent that's straightforward about it is olight with some of their lights. Zebralight isn't bad though because they at least let the user know it's approximate runtime due to PID so the user isn't completely in the dark. 

One thing ive discovered as well is that lights are highly variable in runtime, the exact same light. I've tested my Zebralights, olight and a few others (exact same light on same setting with fully charged battery) and found up to 20% differences in runtime, especially at the medium and low modes. I think much of this is due to sample variation, led variation and circuit boards also being more or less efficient. From what I understand the published results at ZL are an average of multiple lights, I'm not sure how other companies measure theirs but that's how I remember ZL saying they came up with their numbers. 

Thanks for the great graphs maukka, they were quite helpful and beneficial! Would love to see you write a review on this light and many other lights to come


----------



## recDNA

I wish pid would kick in early enough to protect skin! That's much more important than a new flashlight.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> I wish pid would kick in early enough to protect skin! That's much more important than a new flashlight.



I guess that depends on tolerance level, I've held mine for 5 minutes and while it gets quite toasty it's fine and doesn't bother me. I've read of some who can handle it and others who can't which comes down to individual preferences. Also I've found if you hold a grip towards the middle and base portion that doesn't get hot like the head does.


----------



## psychbeat

They should totally provide a wet blanket too


----------



## maukka

The light definitely steps down outside in the cold too. -8°C out there now and after 1 minute dropped to 80 %. After that gradually to 67 %. At that point I took my fan outside and what do you know, it climbed back to 98 % very fast. So it seems that the H600Fd III needs good cooling for the PID not to kick in. At the 19 minute mark the light was only warm to the touch.


----------



## recDNA

maukka said:


> The light definitely steps down outside in the cold too. -8°C out there now and after 1 minute dropped to 80 %. After that gradually to 67 %. At that point I took my fan outside and what do you know, it climbed back to 98 % very fast. So it seems that the H600Fd III needs good cooling for the PID not to kick in. At the 19 minute mark the light was only warm to the touch.


Almost sounds timed vs temperature dependent. Odd that it drops so fast at cold ambient temperature. The fan fixes it so I guess that means it is just bad at shedding heat. So much for fins.


----------



## maukka

Okay, new data. Outside with the fan on from the beginning. Clearly no PID kicking in. What surprised me was the short runtime of 37 minutes with a hot off the charger Eagtac 3500 mAh battery.


----------



## scs

maukka said:


> Okay, new data. Outside with the fan on from the beginning. Clearly no PID kicking in. What surprised me was the short runtime of 37 minutes with a hot off the charger Eagtac 3500 mAh battery.



Thanks again, maukka.
I wonder if anyone was "pro" enough to expect this spec, when ZL hasn't listed it.


----------



## scs

Isn't the light supposed to automatically step down to medium, then low, when the cell is low, instead of cutting off like that?


----------



## maukka

Yes, it dropped down to (very) low. I manually switched it back to H1, but it dropped back in a matter of seconds.


----------



## twistedraven

Doesn't surprise me that the highest mode lasts for only 37 minutes. It's putting out 900 lumens and has high CRI plus a boost driver.


----------



## sidecross

maukka said:


> Yes, it dropped down to (very) low. I manually switched it back to H1, but it dropped back in a matter of seconds.


Did you check what the battery voltage was when the light "dropped back in a matter of seconds'?


----------



## psychbeat

I'm "shocked" that pulling ~4amps from a 3500mah (really more like 3400 & only if u drain it down to 2.5v) would only last 37 mins. 

Not. 

Do tha maths 

Thanks ver much Maukka for doing all of these tests. 
I've been using my H600W on max to LV stepdown thru multiple cells in a session for years now and it's been solid. And I'm not all burnt up either if u can believe it.


----------



## maukka

sidecross said:


> Did you check what the battery voltage was when the light "dropped back in a matter of seconds'?


Sorry, didn't measure the voltage after the test, but I'm charging the cell now so I'll have a rough estimate of the capacity drained. I would assume the voltage was similar to previous tests, so about 3,36 volts.


----------



## scs

4A eh. Did ZL provide that? No.
Fine. 3400mAh...
3.4Ah / 4A = 0.85h = 51 min
3.2Ah / 4A = 0.8h = 48 min
Hindsight is 20/20.


----------



## psychbeat

scs said:


> 4A eh. Did ZL provide that? No.
> Fine. 3400mAh...
> 3.4Ah / 4A = 0.85h = 51 min
> 3.2Ah / 4A = 0.8h = 48 min
> Hindsight is 20/20.



Yer almost getting it! 

The cutoff on most zebralights is ~2.8v & under max load will probably kick in much earlier... so a 3400mah cell is going to be more like 3000ish most likely. 

Most users won't be using maximum in subfreezing temps with a fan blowing on it and 4ish amps draw is a guess at what the circuit will pull without PID kicking in - direct drive into an XML2 or similar emitter. 

Rumors are that the HiCRI emitters tend to have a higher VF as well which is another thing the driver has to overcome to achieve ~1000lumens best (or worst if yer not into it) case.

It's similar to quoting runtimes with a direct drive light - "VERY variable[emoji767]"


----------



## maukka

The Eagtac took 2260 mAh in during the charge. Se clearly I need to test again with a cell that holds its voltage better at 4 A. I only have a NCR18650BL, but that should be fine. At least according to HKJs battery comparator at 5 A the BL seems much better than a Keeppower 18650 3500 mAh, which uses the same NCR18650GA cell as the Eagtac.

If my math is correct, the current draw of the Zebralight is 3,66 A. 37 minutes @ 3,66 A = 2260 mAh. I thought I read 3,7 amps mentioned somewhere...

On a side note: I tested the Eagtac's capacity at 1 A load and 3,0 V cutoff to be 3060 mAh.


----------



## maukka

Same setup, outside with fan. This time with a Sanyo NCR18650BL and an LG MH1. The Sanyo extends the runtime about 3 minutes to 40 while the LG is neck and neck with the Eagtac.


----------



## twistedraven

How do these batteries compare on the 255 lumen high?


----------



## maukka

I measured the current draw on the 255 lumen mode to be 696 mA, so you can check the performance with HKJ's battery comparator. Just use the 0,5 A or 1,0 A current draw options.


----------



## 18650

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



ZGerman said:


> It shows what the OP said it shows, PWM. I can make out about 15 scanlines in that picture. But to be fair, i would have to see that shot in motion to see if those scanlines actually move. Read up on PWM and compare stills and animated shots of PWM, then you understand OPs picture.


 That doesn't mean a thing. A lot of image sensors will produce output like that at low light levels if they have to up the gain. Some of my old cameras used to show lines like that in those circumstances.


----------



## maukka

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

There's absolutely no PWM at any level on the H600Fd.


----------



## insanefred

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



maukka said:


> There's absolutely no PWM at any level on the H600Fd.



Because _*one*_ person claims it has PWM, it will forever haunt the this model.




18650 said:


> That doesn't mean a thing. A lot of image sensors will produce output like that at low light levels if they have to up the gain. Some of my old cameras used to show lines like that in those circumstances.




That is usually called "banding".


----------



## KeepingItLight

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

I guess I am just a geek, because I love this stuff. Maukka, you have turned this into one of the most interesting threads I have read in a while. Thanks!

One question: You say the PID is not responsible for the declining output in your fan-cooled, outdoor tests. Output drops from 100% to roughly 82-85% on the charts. Is that characteristic for a boost driver? Am I to understand that the boost driver cannot keep output at 100% as the battery voltage falls? Or could some of the decline be attributed to PID even in your fan-cooled, outdoor setting?


----------



## maukka

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



KeepingItLight said:


> One question: You say the PID is not responsible for the declining output in your fan-cooled, outdoor tests. Output drops from 100% to roughly 82-85% on the charts. Is that characteristic for a boost driver? Am I to understand that the boost driver cannot keep output at 100% as the battery voltage falls? Or could some of the decline be attributed to PID even in your fan-cooled, outdoor setting?



That's a very good question. I am not an electrical engineer and don't have enough knowledge about advanced led drivers to answer that. I will run some more tests on the lower PID mode (560 lm) to check the temps vs. output levels to try and shed some light into this.


----------



## maukka

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

I don't believe the drop in output is because of the temperature regulation. I ran the light on H2 560 lm mode inside with a fan. The highest temp measured was 43°C, but the output was still at 97,5 %. Outside at max H1 with the fan on the temp was only 22°C.


----------



## KeepingItLight

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

I still have a lot to learn about boost drivers!

Below is an excerpt from selfbuilt's review of the *ZebraLight SC600 Mk. II L2*. 



selfbuilt said:


> Let's see how it does on my estimated lumen scale:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overall, my lumen estimates are pretty close to Zebralights specs. The lowest output modes seem lower than the specs would suggest, but that could be due in part to sample variation.
> 
> As always, note my lumen estimation method is just that – an estimation based on the calibration of my lightbox. As such, don't get caught up on the _absolute_ difference between lights or levels, as I can't guarantee absolute accuracy. Focus instead on the _relative_ differences, as that is internally consistent across all my reviews.
> 
> *Output/Runtime Graphs:*
> 
> Let's start with a comparison of the Hi modes, under my standard testing conditions (i.e., a cooling fan is used)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All levels show a clear step-down pattern as the batteries near exhaustion. This is convenient, as it means you won't be stranded in the dark without warning.
> 
> But you can also see some evidence of the PID circuit feature on the max mode (Hi1). Although the overall pattern is similar to the drop-off seen on many lights as the batteries/circuit head up, there are actually a lot of very finely discriminated steps in output happening. This will not be apparent to you in practice (i.e., they are too subtle to see), but my lightbox can indeed detect the precise thermal regulation introduced by the PID.
> 
> You can read up more about PID (Proportional-Integral-Differential) controllers online, but basically they are a more sophisticated mechanism to regulate circuit function in regards to temperature than the typical step-down features we are used to with flashlights. The controller has to be specifically customized to the build in question, and can be thought of a refinement/replacement of the typical current-control regulation we are used to.
> 
> According to Zebralight, both the Hi1 and H2A levels use PID. This presumably explains why they are unable to provide typical runtime estimates (i.e., depends a lot on ambient temperature conditions). Note that I don't see any thermal step-down on the Hi2B runtime above - likely due to my use of cooling fan during testing.
> 
> To explore this in more detail, here is a close-up of the H1 and H2A modes with and without a cooling fan:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you can really see the PID in action. On the Hi1 mode, there's no difference in the runtime pattern due to cooling over the first 5 mins or so. Beyond that point though, the non-cooled runtime shows a progressive drop in output – down to below the Hi2A level. Of course, this also means the light can run for a lot longer, as you are not draining the cells as quickly.
> 
> A similar (though less pronounced) effect of the PID can also be seen on the Hi2A run. Output again remains initially consistent between cooling and non-cooling runs, but eventually becomes divergent. By ~25 mins into the non-cooled run, there is a definite drop off in output, although it is not as pronounced as the Hi1 (in relative terms).
> 
> That said, the sustained output level of both Hi1 and Hi2A is remarkably consistent once step-down occurs. At the 30 min mark, I would estimate the PID-reduced output on the non-cooled runs to be ~600 lumens on both levels. By 80 mins, it has consistently dropped to ~560 estimated lumens.
> 
> Once the pronounced step-downs occur (due to declining battery voltage), performance on the non-cooled runs looks the same as the cooled runs.
> 
> Here's a comparison of my standard AW 2200mAh cells to a NCR18650A cell (Xtar 3100mAh)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, let's do a brief examination of surface temperature relative to output. This was done by simultaneously logging data from a temperature probe taped to the head (on the opposite side from the switch, near the base of the head). There is no cooling applied, and I am using the same Xtar 3100mAh cell as above:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, the PID keeps the temperature within a remarkably consistent range. Again, don't worry about the absolute temp value (that just reflects the specific probe placement).
> 
> Let's see how the fan-cooled SC600-II L2 compares to the competition (all on AW protected 2200mAh):




In H1 mode, and also in H2A mode (the highest alternate), output shows a slow decline even when a fan is used to provide cooling. This result is similar to what maukka is seeing with the *ZebraLight H600Fd Mk. III*. Evidently, the boost driver cannot maintain flat output on the highest levels. 

On the other levels, however, selfbuilt's runtime charts are as flat as you will ever see. The boost driver has no trouble maintaining the required output voltage even as battery voltage wanes. 

So why does the boost driver work so well at these lower levels when it cannot remain flat on H1 and H2A? 

Beats me.


----------



## maukka

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

Yes, my H2A mode looks identical to Selfbuit's measurement of SC600-II. Slight drop right in the beginning, then straight.

First 30 minutes


----------



## Tachead

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

Can anyone post some beamshots of the H600Fd MKIII please? Outdoor compared to other F models would be great but any will do as there isnt many yet that I can find. Thanks guys.


----------



## twistedraven

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

Quick beam shot of Nichia 219B at 4500k vs XML2 easywhite at 4700k vs Luxeon T at 5000k. To my eyes, the 219B has an overall tannish tint, while the XML2 easywhite has an overall yellowish tint but closer to 'white', while the hotspot of the Luxeon T is truest to 'white', and its spill is cool white. I plan on during a 4 way comparison adding the SC63D at 5000k and using a DSLR as opposed to an old point-and-shoot for better picture quality.


----------



## maukka

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

I was asked to measure the H600Fd III color temperature on different settings. Here it is in graphical and numerical form.


----------



## sidecross

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



maukka said:


> I was asked to measure the H600Fd III color temperature on different settings. Here it is in graphical and numerical form.


Thank you for this additional information. :thumbsup:


----------



## Tachead

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*

Thanks again maukka:thumbsup:


----------



## Tachead

I got my H600Fd MKIII yesterday afternoon and had a chance to try it a bit last night. I have to say, it is awesome. Its smaller and lighter then I expected. It has a very nice tint also. I like it even better then my Nichia 219A light(it is lower CRI and cooler but much less rosey/magenta). I am glad I got the floody model as it is perfect for a headlamp(floody but still has a bit of throw and a nice diffused hotspot). The button is very nice and I like the UI for the most part(mode memory would have been a nice option and I wish it didnt cycle to low always no matter what output you are on). The anodizing on mine is perfect, not a flaw anywhere. Brightness is more then adequate even on the non-PID Hi 3 setting and turbo(H1) is very bright for a headlamp(nice to have when needed). The selection of moonlights is very nice to have as well and allows you to pick just the right amount of brightness for any occasion. The strap, adjustments, and silicone holder works well and it is nice to have the additional top strap.

This is my first Zebralight and I have to say I am impressed and I would buy another.


----------



## snowlover91

Maukka you should review some other ZL flashlights and really other brands too! All the tools you have access to for measuring output, runtime, color temp, etc are great and would love to see you do some reviews of different lights if you have the time!


----------



## Tachead

Does anyone have both the H600Fd and H600Fc? If so, is there any way you could post a beam shot comparing the two? Thanks:thumbsup:


----------



## evgeniy

Tachead said:


> Does anyone have both the H600Fd and H600Fc? If so, is there any way you could post a beam shot comparing the two?



Yes.
Beamshot's are equal, but with different tint and color temp.
2 pages ago I posted measurements,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Currently I received H600Fc and Fd lights and tested, white paper + photo camera with RAW, set white balance in Photoshop.
(I understand, that's my method isn't true precision)

- ZebraLight H602w : 4600-4650(auto by camera) 4500-4600K (manual), edges is slightly greenish (because naked Led).
- ZebraLight H600W (I) : 4300-4350(auto) 4250-4350K (manual) 
- ZebraLight H600FD : 4800(auto) 4900-5000K (manual)
- ZebraLight H600FC : 4050(auto) 3950-4000K (manual)
for compare,
- Osram halogen Decostar51 IRC lamp (3000K for 50W model, I tested 20w), 2650 auto, 2650-2700 (manual), very good color.
- Solux halogen 3500K lamp : 3550K auto and manual. Excellent white color.

Fd is more contrasty (because has more blue light in spectra) and brighter.
Fc is better for forest (my opinition).
---------------------------------------------------------------

Current in H/M modes: 
600Fc & 600Fd :
0.1(0.098)А and 0.11А for M1,
0.78-0.79А and 0.64А for H2 (220-240 lm). (H602w, "240lm" = 0.63А, M1 = 0.12А.)
Fc has lower currents and less brighter in these modes. 
But H1 currents is equal for both, 3.5-3.6А.
------------------------------


----------



## evgeniy

Unfortunately, "107/117lm" mode is located in H2 group, 
and I can't fast switch between "230lm" mode and "107lm", max. mode in M group is "57lm", but 0.1A current say, that we has lower brightless in this mode.


----------



## Tachead

evgeniy said:


> Yes.
> Beamshot's are equal, but with different tint and color temp.
> 2 pages ago I posted measurements,
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Currently I received H600Fc and Fd lights and tested, white paper + photo camera with RAW, set white balance in Photoshop.
> (I understand, that's my method isn't true precision)
> 
> - ZebraLight H602w : 4600-4650(auto by camera) 4500-4600K (manual), edges is slightly greenish (because naked Led).
> - ZebraLight H600W (I) : 4300-4350(auto) 4250-4350K (manual)
> - ZebraLight H600FD : 4800(auto) 4900-5000K (manual)
> - ZebraLight H600FC : 4050(auto) 3950-4000K (manual)
> for compare,
> - Osram halogen Decostar51 IRC lamp (3000K for 50W model, I tested 20w), 2650 auto, 2650-2700 (manual), very good color.
> - Solux halogen 3500K lamp : 3550K auto and manual. Excellent white color.
> 
> Fd is more contrasty (because has more blue light in spectra) and brighter.
> Fc is better for forest (my opinition).
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Current in H/M modes:
> 600Fc & 600Fd :
> 0.1(0.098)А and 0.11А for M1,
> 0.78-0.79А and 0.64А for H2 (220-240 lm). (H602w, "240lm" = 0.63А, M1 = 0.12А.)
> Fc has lower currents and less brighter in these modes.
> But H1 currents is equal for both, 3.5-3.6А.
> ------------------------------



Thanks, I already read your measurements earlier in the thread though and know the differences between the two. I already own the H600Fd MKIII as well but, am considering the Fc for a backup. What I am looking for is a beamshot of the two so I can see the difference in tint and temp myself. I really appreciate your measurements but could you post a beam shot picture of the two please as well? Thanks again:thumbsup:


----------



## evgeniy

Tachead said:


> could you post a beam shot picture of the two please as well?


4 shots, all converted in ACR/Photoshop with same +25 red tint and different CT, 220/240 lm modes.

(Fc is on the left, Fd on the right.)

H600_FD_FC_3800K_ 







H600_FD_FC_4000K_ 






H600_FD_FC_4800K_ 






H600_FD_FC_5000K_






--------------------------------------------------


----------



## Tachead

evgeniy said:


> 4 shots, all converted in ACR/Photoshop with same +25 red tint and different CT, 220/240 lm modes.
> 
> H600_FD_FC_3800K_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> H600_FD_FC_4000K_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> H600_FD_FC_4800K_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> H600_FD_FC_5000K_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------



Thank you sir, I really appreciate it:thumbsup:

Wow, the Fc is a lot warmer for sure. The pic makes the Fd look cooler then it is in person though(the 5000K shot looks closest). I like my Fd a lot but, it is definitely as cool as would ever like to go for a neutral white. How does the Fc compare to the Fd in an outdoor foliage setting(forest)? I am starting to think that about 4300-4500K is the perfect temp for me. Hopefully one day Zebralight will release a H600F with a 4300-4500K 95+ CRI emitter. I think that would be my grail headlamp.


----------



## pse

The Fd is on the left, Fc on the right?


----------



## psychbeat

evgeniy said:


> 4 shots, all converted in ACR/Photoshop with same +25 red tint and different CT, 220/240 lm modes.
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------



THANKS!

I'm tempered to get the FC but am waiting to see if they make a C version in the XHP35 style. 

I'd prefer the shorter length & pogo pin design.


----------



## evgeniy

Tachead said:


> How does the Fc compare to the Fd in an outdoor foliage setting(forest)?


Fc is slightly better for outdoor, but it's only for my taste.


----------



## evgeniy

pse said:


> The Fd is on the left, Fc on the right?



Fc is on the left, Fd on the right.


----------



## Tachead

psychbeat said:


> THANKS!
> 
> I'm tempered to get the FC but am waiting to see if they make a C version in the XHP35 style.
> 
> *I'd prefer the shorter length & pogo pin design.*



I have to ask why would you prefer less battery compatibility, lower safety margins(for a potential pipe bomb strapped to your forehead), much less shock resistance, lower contact pressure(for more chance of cell rattle with something bouncing on your head), and possibly less long term reliability(unproven design)? Just for the 4mm shorter body? Because that seems like a lot of trade offs just for a tiny decrease in overall length and weight to me anyway.


----------



## Tachead

evgeniy said:


> Fc is slightly better for outdoor, but it's only for my taste.



Thanks again evgeniy


----------



## psychbeat

Tachead said:


> I have to ask why would you prefer less battery compatibility, lower safety margins(for a potential pipe bomb strapped to your forehead), much less shock resistance, lower contact pressure(for more chance of cell rattle with something bouncing on your head), and possibly less long term reliability(unproven design)? Just for the 4mm shorter body? Because that seems like a lot of trade offs just for a tiny decrease in overall length and weight to me anyway.



Hope I'm not feeding a troll here...

I'm dubious to protected batteries being safer while inside the headlamp. In fact I think if anything they are LESS safe due to the thin strip of metal that goes down the entire length of a "protected cell" which only has a thin piece of tape under it. 
Under an intense shock this can short - I've had two AW protected cells do this. One from being crunched by something the other from getting snagged in a battery box. 

I use quality chargers and trust that the zebralights won't over discharge my cells so I don't see how a protection circuit added is going to help in any way. 
Most quality raw cells have some type of thermal vent which will trigger on thermal run away. 
It's QUITE hard to over discharge a cell even on direct drive with the VF of most emitters these days. 
Trust me I've left DD lights on all night before & tho depleted deeply the cell still had a resting voltage above 2.5 & charged up fine. 
I've tested my h600w to drop down ~2.8v 
So to recap I only see a protection circuit as another potential for short or straight cut out (dangerous for some of my activities). 

The battery rattle on the early MKIII is caused by too large of an ID not spring tension and supposedly has already been addressed on future batches.

To reduce voltage sag, most of my other lights either have a jumper wire soldered to the spring, a pice of copper braid stuffed/soldered in, or a solid piece of brass (zerorez). 
The soldered jumper works but looks a bit too ugly I'd imagine on a slick production light for zebra to use. 
The pogo pins are a GREAT alternative IMHO and I don't believe there's going to be any problem with shock damping. 
The shorter size and lighter weight are both major pluses too. 

I've had 5different zebra headlights and with them have swam rivers, crashed bikes, ran multiple cells back to back on max mode while doing trail work all night, 10 day backpacking trips, lots of beach camping with sand and salt water etc etc. 
no issues with my "pipebombs" powered by mostly Panasonic raw cells. 

Personally, I'm not really sure why you've been posting the same "concerns" in every zebra thread (even when asked not to by a mod) & I'm not quite sure what the agenda is? 

Sorry for the off topic for anyone else reading.


----------



## Tachead

psychbeat said:


> Hope I'm not feeding a troll here...
> 
> I'm dubious to protected batteries being safer while inside the headlamp. In fact I think if anything they are LESS safe due to the thin strip of metal that goes down the entire length of a "protected cell" which only has a thin piece of tape under it.
> Under an intense shock this can short - I've had two AW protected cells do this. One from being crunched by something the other from getting snagged in a battery box.
> 
> I use quality chargers and trust that the zebralights won't over discharge my cells so I don't see how a protection circuit added is going to help in any way.
> Most quality raw cells have some type of thermal vent which will trigger on thermal run away.
> It's QUITE hard to over discharge a cell even on direct drive with the VF of most emitters these days.
> Trust me I've left DD lights on all night before & tho depleted deeply the cell still had a resting voltage above 2.5 & charged up fine.
> I've tested my h600w to drop down ~2.8v
> So to recap I only see a protection circuit as another potential for short or straight cut out (dangerous for some of my activities).
> 
> The battery rattle on the early MKIII is caused by too large of an ID not spring tension and supposedly has already been addressed on future batches.
> 
> To reduce voltage sag, most of my other lights either have a jumper wire soldered to the spring, a pice of copper braid stuffed/soldered in, or a solid piece of brass (zerorez).
> The soldered jumper works but looks a bit too ugly I'd imagine on a slick production light for zebra to use.
> The pogo pins are a GREAT alternative IMHO and I don't believe there's going to be any problem with shock damping.
> The shorter size and lighter weight are both major pluses too.
> 
> I've had 5different zebra headlights and with them have swam rivers, crashed bikes, ran multiple cells back to back on max mode while doing trail work all night, 10 day backpacking trips, lots of beach camping with sand and salt water etc etc.
> no issues with my "pipebombs" powered by mostly Panasonic raw cells.
> 
> *Personally, I'm not really sure why you've been posting the same "concerns" in every zebra thread (even when asked not to by a mod) & I'm not quite sure what the agenda is? *
> 
> Sorry for the off topic for anyone else reading.



Because I really dislike this new design but, love Zebralight lights and hope they will reconsider this change going forward.

I am not going to discuss this further here as I started a thread/poll about it in the LED forum.


----------



## uofaengr

Should have my H600Fd III later today. Very excited to get it. The H600Fc doesn't look too bad either if I get a hankering for something new.


----------



## BuildingSerenity

Mine is arriving tomorrow


----------



## uofaengr

On a side note (just read every post of the thread), wasn't aware of the runtime issues on M1 but relieved to read that they're fixed now. The retailer I purchased from had over 20 in stock I think and surely they have the updated firmware. I also like seeing that high is around 4700K which is nice and was afraid the "d" would be borderline cool and highly considered the "c". The BLF A6 I have in 3D tint, by my measurements, is somewhere between 4700-4800K (without the high CRI, mind you) and is about as cool as I want to go with a neutral white.


----------



## markr6

psychbeat said:


> The battery rattle on the early MKIII is caused by too large of an ID not spring tension and supposedly has already been addressed on future batches.



I hope so! I like my H600w II which is nice and tight...almost too tight. Some identical 18650s don't fit, but I can "shave" the wrapper seam with a razor and it's OK. Talk about tight tolerances! Zero rattle.


----------



## Tachead

uofaengr said:


> On a side note (just read every post of the thread), wasn't aware of the runtime issues on M1 but relieved to read that they're fixed now. The retailer I purchased from had over 20 in stock I think and surely they have the updated firmware. I also like seeing that high is around 4700K which is nice and was afraid the "d" would be borderline cool and highly considered the "c". The BLF A6 I have in 3D tint, by my measurements, is somewhere between 4700-4800K (without the high CRI, mind you) and is about as cool as I want to go with a neutral white.



I agree. My H600Fd MKIII is definitely as cool as I would ever want to go for a neutral white. It is just an ever so slightly yellow pure white with near zero tint shift.


----------



## uofaengr

Tachead said:


> I agree. My H600Fd MKIII is definitely as cool as I would ever want to go for a neutral white. It is just an ever so slightly yellow pure white with near zero tint shift.


Zero tint shift is big. That A6 has a definite shift to violet in the spill along with my SC52w. One reason I love the beam of my triple Nichia light with frosted optics, and I think (hope) this headlamp is going to very much mimic that beam.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Didn't read the whole thread, but how many decided on "d" and how many decided on "c" roughly?


----------



## BuildingSerenity

I bought the "d"


----------



## MarkF786

I'm torn myself. I'd like to get my first ZL headlamp and am leaning towards a H600Fc or H600Fd but don't know which I'd prefer. My other ZLs are the standard neutral tint, which seems to be in between the c & d at 4500k.

Does anyone have general recommendations on the best application of each?



ateupwithgolf said:


> Didn't read the whole thread, but how many decided on "d" and how many decided on "c" roughly?


----------



## Tachead

MarkF786 said:


> I'm torn myself. I'd like to get my first ZL headlamp and am leaning towards a H600Fc or H600Fd but don't know which I'd prefer. My other ZLs are the standard neutral tint, which seems to be in between the c & d at 4500k.
> 
> Does anyone have general recommendations on the best application of each?



Why not get both? Then you have both your bases covered or you can always sell the one that you like least. I am pretty sure I am going to order the "c" now too because I like the "d" so much(but find it a bit cool for certain things) and need a backup anyway as I have decided to sell my old headlamp.


----------



## MarkF786

LOL. I've spent too much already on lights in the past couple months, but now that I found ZebraLight, I want to round out my collection with a headlamp. It seems like the "d" model is more popular, so maybe I should try that.



Tachead said:


> Why not get both? Then you have both your bases covered or you can always sell the one that you like least. I am pretty sure I am going to order the "c" now too because I like the "d" so much(but find it a bit cool for certain things) and need a backup anyway as I have decided to sell my old headlamp.


----------



## Tachead

MarkF786 said:


> LOL. I've spent too much already on lights in the past couple months, but now that I found ZebraLight, I want to round out my collection with a headlamp. It seems like the "d" model is more popular, so maybe I should try that.



Its a great headlamp. I dont think you could go wrong with either. I love my "d" so far.


----------



## uofaengr

Initial impressions of the H600Fd III. 1000x times better than the POS Fenix headband. Was surprised at how comfortable it is and much prefer the top strap going from front to back rather than side to side. 

Tint is very nice. Near identical to my ~4700K SC62w, my $1 CCT measuring app shows 4750K on H1 and H2B and 4500K on M1 and M2A which pretty much lines up with what user maukka measured in his awesome review. (yay 1 dollar lol) Not too cool by any means, but wouldn't want to go cooler. Slightly cooler than all of my Nichia 219b lights, did not compare CRI but CRI does seem better compared with my SC62w. 

Output...man, it's hard comparing a frosted lens side by side with a regular lens. I guess maybe since the frosted lens is more diffuse and lacks that hotspot, it's not going to look quite as bright, but I believe ZL specs. Very bright and just awesome though.

I never knew how useful a quality headlamp with a good beam could be until now. I wore it for awhile last night, and it just works so well and very comfortable too which I was surprised at. I've been holding lights in my mouth or halfway tail standing them and blinding myself for so long when working on something, this is literally a treat now. When Zebralight comes out with a 90+ CRI lamp with even better runtime and output, I'm in, no question, take my money now. The H600Fd III is a 5 star, home run.


----------



## maukka

uofaengr said:


> Tint is very nice. Near identical to my ~4700K SC62w, my $1 CCT measuring app shows 4750K on H1 and H2B and 4500K on M1 and M2A which pretty much lines up with what user maukka measured in his awesome review. (yay 1 dollar lol)



Cool, it's an awesome light. What app did you use?

edit: Oh, I suppose this one http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?414221-Color-temperature-apps

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cassiopeia.camera&hl=fi


----------



## uofaengr

maukka said:


> Cool, it's an awesome light. What app did you use?
> 
> edit: Oh, I suppose this one http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?414221-Color-temperature-apps
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cassiopeia.camera&hl=fi


You should do more reviews including lumen output if you have the capability. I appreciate your efforts! 

Yes, that's the app. It seems to work fairly well for what it is. With flashlights, you have to keep the hotspot as centered as possible for accuracy. Has much more consistent readings with a diffuse light. There's worse things one could spend a buck on lol. I trust your methods much more though. [emoji106]


----------



## BuildingSerenity

Had a chance to play around with it. 

Would be cool if there was a memory for last setting. Starts off in high. Not bad but not good. 

Wondering if im going to regret no red light


----------



## Tachead

BuildingSerenity said:


> Had a chance to play around with it.
> 
> Would be cool if there was a memory for last setting. Starts off in high. Not bad but not good.
> 
> Wondering if im going to regret no red light



Read the instructions that came with it. You can start in low, med, or high from off. Press and hold for 0.6 seconds to start in low. Double click to start in med. Single click for high. Press and keep holding to scroll from low to med to high at anytime. Double click once on to go to sub mode of the current level and it will remember your choice. There is a lot more then that too. Trust me, read the advanced instructions.


----------



## Tachead

BuildingSerenity said:


> Had a chance to play around with it.
> 
> Would be cool if there was a memory for last setting. Starts off in high. Not bad but not good.
> 
> Wondering if im going to regret no red light




Let us know what you think of it(all aspects: construction, tint, beam profile, UI, exc.)once you learn all the advanced operation too:thumbsup:


----------



## Tachead

BuildingSerenity said:


> Had a chance to play around with it.
> 
> Would be cool if there was a memory for last setting. Starts off in high. Not bad but not good.
> *
> Wondering if im going to regret no red light*



I doubt you will. Red light doesnt help preserve night vision much more then low white light and it as the expense of colour rendering and detail. Your new light has a low mode as well as three different levels of moonlight all the way down to 0.01 lumen. You can pick which of the three modes you like best and save it through the programming mode and then double click from low to get to it(double click to toggle between the 2). Also, if you double click when in low and go to your saved moonlight mode and then turn the light off, it will remember and turn back on to the moonlight when you next start the light in low(0.6 sec press and hold).


----------



## eraursls1984

Tachead said:


> There is a lot more then that too. Trust me, read the advanced instructions.


You had me thinking I've missed something. You covered everything but the programming, blinking modes, and battery indicator.


----------



## Tachead

eraursls1984 said:


> You had me thinking I've missed something. You covered everything but the programming, blinking modes, and battery indicator.



Correct. I figured I would just go over the main stuff. I hope it was helpful.


----------



## BuildingSerenity

Read the instructions before posting, thanks 

I'm not liking the UI. Should have a memory. 

0.6 seconds is low. 0.7 is medium, 0.8 is high. Pretty precise requirements. 

This isn't intuitive or convenient. I may return and get the new Fenix


----------



## snowlover91

BuildingSerenity said:


> Read the instructions before posting, thanks
> 
> I'm not liking the UI. Should have a memory.
> 
> 0.6 seconds is low. 0.7 is medium, 0.8 is high. Pretty precise requirements.
> 
> This isn't intuitive or convenient. I may return and get the new Fenix



Not sure what you're talking about? You click once to go to high from off. If you want low you press and hold. If you want medium it's a double click from off. There's nothing precise about the high or medium modes you just click once or twice and for low you just press and hold.


----------



## BuildingSerenity

Not sure what's confusing in my post. I don't expect everyone to agree. It's my opinion

press and hold gets you to a cycling of brightness. Doesn't stop on Low. If you have cold hands you're not getting anything but high beams when you start clicking


----------



## snowlover91

BuildingSerenity said:


> Not sure what's confusing in my post. I don't expect everyone to agree. It's my opinion
> 
> press and hold gets you to a cycling of brightness. Doesn't stop on Low. If you have cold hands you're not getting anything but high beams when you start clicking



From off a press and hold starts you in low if that's the level you want then you release. If you want medium from off you double click and single click for high. Once you're in a mode, say medium, you press and hold for it to start cycling between low and the rest of the other settings. There is a delay for each level so it's not hard to release on the one you want? I guess I don't understand what it is unless it's the cycling feature that you don't care for?


----------



## BuildingSerenity

I you press and hold it starts in low and cycles quickly. There is no quick start to low. Only quick start to high. 

When I'm sitting on my sofa clicking this on my head it's one thing. Outdoor in the crap, cold hands, maybe wet- all you can do is start on high with a single click. You're not thinking of morse-code like clicking to get what you want. 

No memory is a drag. No red is a drag.


----------



## Tachead

BuildingSerenity said:


> I you press and hold it starts in low and cycles quickly. There is no quick start to low. Only quick start to high.
> 
> When I'm sitting on my sofa clicking this on my head it's one thing. Outdoor in the crap, cold hands, maybe wet- all you can do is start on high with a single click. You're not thinking of morse-code like clicking to get what you want.
> 
> No memory is a drag. No red is a drag.



I have to say, I dont agree with you. The UI has its faults but, is still one of the best of any headlamp imo and offers far more mode choice and programability then any other head lamp that I know of. Also, I have used mine recently in -25C a few times with no issues at all(maybe you have dexterity issues or a faulty button?). There is memory but, for the mode you choose in each mode(low, med, high). I agree a last mode memory would have been nice if it could be set on or off but, its not a deal breaker imo. As for the red, unless you do a lot of hunting in low light(some animals have more trouble seeing red light) then there is no need for it with as low as 0.01 lumen on the ZL. Red light doesnt preserve your night vision much better then white at low levels and any benefit is at the expense of colour rendition and detail. If you return it for the Fenix, keep in mind that Fenix is an inferior brand in almost every way(other then UI if you prefer it better) and you are taking a large penalty in available modes(many more on ZL and programable), runtimes/efficiency(much higher on ZL), colour temp and tint(much better with almost no tint shift vs huge yellow to purple on Fenix), CRI(Much lower on Fenix, roughly 65-70 vs 85 with the Easywhite on ZL), anodizing(much more durable "real" Type III), weight(the Fenix is almost twice as heavy)and overall quality. Also, I should point out that if you use your headlamp in the cold a lot, the ZL has a silicone holder vs. the plastic one on the Fenix that would be much easier to break in the cold. 

There is no perfect UI, you have to pick the one that works best for you. What I dont understand is that if this one doesnt work for you then why did you order one? The UI is described thoroughly on their website as is the fact that it doesnt have a red light mode.

With all that said, if the Fenix is better for you, for your uses, then get it because all that really matters is that you are happy.


----------



## BuildingSerenity

It's been -13F in Ontario? 

The programmable modes is silly. For me anyway. No practical benefit. More of a talking point. Do I really need to slice up Low, Medium and High? And program them to memory? Nope. I'd rather have a global memory for the last setting whether Low, Medium or High. 

Zebra is only 25% less weight than the Fenix. I'm thinking this is not a viable concern, either.

I enjoy the build quality of Nitecore and Fenix. There's no essential leap in quality - they're all excellent.

In my opinion, there's a practical aspect, then the hobby aspect. These little details and comparisons is simply parsing points of the hobbyist. 

In my opinion, you elevate Zebra too high and denigrate Fenix excessively. 

I have Nitecore, Fenix and now Zebra lights to compare. I just ordered the Nitecore for $60 delivered

Side Note: While this is debated amongst amateurs, it seems that any ardent astronomer wants a red light. There is a difference between red and white light when stargazing. Yes, any light poured into your eyes will blind you at night. However red is better


----------



## Tachead

BuildingSerenity said:


> It's been -13F in Ontario?
> 
> The programmable modes is silly. For me anyway. No practical benefit. More of a talking point. Do I really need to slice up Low, Medium and High? And program them to memory? Nope. I'd rather have a global memory for the last setting whether Low, Medium or High.
> 
> Zebra is only 25% less weight than the Fenix. I'm thinking this is not a viable concern, either.
> 
> I enjoy the build quality of Nitecore and Fenix. There's no essential leap in quality - they're all excellent.
> 
> In my opinion, there's a practical aspect, then the hobby aspect. These little details and comparisons is simply parsing points of the hobbyist.
> 
> In my opinion, you elevate Zebra too high and denigrate Fenix excessively.
> 
> I have Nitecore, Fenix and now Zebra lights to compare.



I live in Northern Ontario and it was -25 and below at night just last week. I added to my above post that if you use your headlamp in sub zero conditions often, the silicone holder of the ZL will be much less likely to break vs. the plastic one on the Fenix.

Your opinion and I respect that but, I like the option to pick the brightness I want myself. Especially when it comes to the moonlight modes(you can pick just the right one as your second mode for late night use depending on conditions). I wouldnt mind a last mode memory as well but, again, not a deal breaker for me because it is so easy with the fast shortcuts to low,med,hi. There is no perfect UI, that I have found.

28% and that's if Fenix's spec includes the headband(they dont say it does). That is almost a third more on the front of your head, double if it doesnt include the headband. To me that is a lot heavier with an 18650 powered aluminum headlamp already quite heavy imo. (an average Petzl is like 60grams)

I do as well, but, they are nowhere near that of a ZL. I have owned many Fenix lights and one Nitecore. But, they lie about their anodizing imo(it is not Type III) and chips rather easy, they use run of the mill emitters with a lot of tint shift and variation between lights and models and rarely offer NW options(never Hi CRI), and have very limited mode selection and UI comparatively(especially Fenix who rarely has moonlight modes), and have lower efficiency and runtimes vs ZL.

But, these "hobbyist details" as you call them actually make a pretty big difference in real life use(especially the longer runtimes, better emitters, and lighter weight)

That may be your opinion but, I am just stating the facts. I like Fenix too, they have nice fit and finish for the most part, a good warranty, and offer a lot of models but, they are definitely in a different class(lower one) then ZL. This is reflected in their price points.

I have owned all as well(and many other brands) and have been into LED lights for many years(since the Luxeon 3 days) and imo there is a fairly large difference between Fenix/Nitecore and Zebralight. I am not the only one who feels this way.

But, I also respect your opinion and like I said, buy whatever makes you happy as that is all that really matters.


----------



## BuildingSerenity

I have the Fenix shipping tomorrow.


----------



## Tachead

BuildingSerenity said:


> I have the Fenix shipping tomorrow.



Let us know what you think when you get it. Sorry if I steered you in the wrong direction with the ZL. We didnt talk much about the UI. I just figured you would like the ZL much more because of the many benefits of it over the Fenix. But, if you dont like the UI, maybe the Fenix will be a better fit for you.


----------



## eraursls1984

Tachead said:


> I do as well, but, they are nowhere near that of a ZL. I have owned many Fenix lights and one Nitecore. But, they lie about their anodizing(it is not Type III) and chips rather easy, they use run of the mill emitters with a lot of tint shift and variation between lights and models and rarely offer NW options(never Hi CRI), and have very limited mode selection and UI comparatively(especially Fenix who rarely has moonlight modes), and have lower efficiency and runtimes vs ZL.
> 
> That may be your opinion but, I am just stating the facts. I like Fenix too, they have nice fit and finish for the most part, a good warranty, and offer a lot of models but, they are definitely in a different class(lower one) then ZL.


I don't like Fenix because they don't offer NW or WW, most don't have moonlight modes, and most that are slightly interesting to me can't tail stand. However, they are one of the best quality Chinese produced lights. Zebralight beats them on features, but quality is nearly similar. Nitecore is a step below both of them in terms of quality though.


----------



## Tachead

eraursls1984 said:


> I don't like Fenix because they don't offer NW or WW, most don't have moonlight modes, and most that are slightly interesting to me can't tail stand. However, they are one of the best quality Chinese produced lights. *Zebralight beats them on features, but quality is nearly similar.* Nitecore is a step below both of them in terms of quality though.



Features, options(emitters, lenses), and driver efficiency/runtime too(much better). Zebralights anodizing is also superior and real Type III like on a Surefire, Elzetta, exc. instead of more of a Type II or powder coat that chips(pretty easily especially on the bezels) rather then being part of the aluminum. Their button is also better then any of my Fenix models as well. Fenix still is one of the better Chinese made lights though.


----------



## BuildingSerenity

Lol. Well I don't agree with the significant differences between the units. Are there differences? Sure. Are they significant? Not to me. Parsing is a word that comes to mind.

Again, I'm not a hobbyist who collects and looks at minutia. I use the equipment and don't fuss. 

I'll have both in front of me by the end of the week and I'll see.


----------



## eraursls1984

Tachead said:


> Features, options(emitters, lenses), and driver efficiency/runtime too. Zebralights anodizing is also by far superior and real Type III like on a Surefire, Elzetta, exc. Their button is also better then any of my Fenix models as well. Fenix still is one of the better Chinese made lights though.


The Fenix lights I've had were also HA III. Zebralights may be slightly better, but not by much. HA II is garbage. HA III can vary a little from manufacturers, and Zebralight has actually had variations on their lights as well. Zebralightsddon't necessarily have better efficiency. They are more efficient at lower levels, but less efficient at higher levels. I love the options Zebralight offers, but I've had a lot more tint shift in my W Zebralights than in my Fenix. The Fenix were all a perfectly white cool white (I still hate cool white even when it's perfect). All in all, I consider Zebralight far and away better because they offer features I have come to expect (NW, WW, moonlight, tail standing) but for those not interested in Zebralight Fenix is a solid choice, especially if your on a tight budget.


----------



## Tachead

BuildingSerenity said:


> Lol. Well I don't agree with the significant differences between the units. Are there differences? Sure. Are they significant? Not to me. Parsing is a word that comes to mind.
> 
> *Again, I'm not a hobbyist who collects* and looks at minutia. I use the equipment and don't fuss.
> 
> I'll have both in front of me by the end of the week and I'll see.



Neither am I. I spend most of my spare time backcountry camping/tenting, hiking, rock climbing, hunting, and fishing and use my equipment plenty(more then most) But, I am a tradesman, and have taken a couple aerospace manufacturing courses in college so I tend to notice the details and understand the manufacturing processes better then some.

Both lights still make light, are pretty good quality, and will work for most uses but, lets not downplay the differences either.


----------



## Tachead

eraursls1984 said:


> *The Fenix lights I've had were also HA III.* Zebralights may be slightly better, but not by much. HA II is garbage. HA III can vary a little from manufacturers, and Zebralight has actually had variations on their lights as well. Zebralightsddon't necessarily have better efficiency. They are more efficient at lower levels, but less efficient at higher levels. I love the options Zebralight offers, but I've had a lot more tint shift in my W Zebralights than in my Fenix. The Fenix were all a perfectly white cool white (I still hate cool white even when it's perfect). All in all, I consider Zebralight far and away better because they offer features I have come to expect (NW, WW, moonlight, tail standing) but for those not interested in Zebralight Fenix is a solid choice, especially if your on a tight budget.



They are not good quality Type III(dont believe fenix or any other Chinese companies specs as they can lie without repercussion unlike domestic manufactures). Real Type III doesnt chip and is part of the surface of the body and increases its toughness. Every Fenix I have ever owned has chipped at least around the bezel where as real Type III lights like ZL, Surefire, Elzetta, exc. will only dent or cut into the aluminum under extreme abrasion or impact. 

Zebralight's drivers are more efficient at all levels. Dont try and compare specs at hi and turbo settings as they can vary greatly depending on differences in step downs and/or thermal regulation.

Then again, ZL's are more expensive then Fenix so maybe it is an unfair comparison.

Again, I say everyone has different preferences and should use whatever makes them happy but, facts are facts and specs are specs. Lets not argue anymore and get back on topic. This isnt a ZL vs Fenix thread.


----------



## eraursls1984

Tachead said:


> They are not good quality Type III(dont believe fenix or any other Chinese companies specs as they can lie without repercussion unlike domestic manufactures). Real Type III doesnt chip and is part of the surface of the body and increases its toughness. Every Fenix I have ever owned has chipped at least around the bezel where as real Type III lights like ZL, Surefire, Elzetta, exc. will only dent or cut into the aluminum under extreme abrasion or impact.
> 
> Zebralight's drivers are more efficient at all levels. Dont try and compare specs at hi and turbo settings as they can vary greatly depending on differences in step downs and/or thermal regulation.


My Fenix never chipped, only tiny specs wore off similar to my oldest Zebralight. I compared the Zebralight SC600 and SC62 to the Fenix E35 as that is the closest Fenix to fit my needs (and they all use 18650s, and have similar diameter). I was comparing the ~10 lumen to ~450 lumen modes as those are most important for long term use in the field or in an emergency situation. You could argue that Fenix's specs aren't exactly accurate, and you'd be correct, but Zebralights specs are not accurate either. On similar modes (one particular one I remember is Zebralight 12 claimed lumens, Fenix 10 claimed lumens) my Fenix seemed brighter. 

IMO Zebralight is a better light, but it's not world's apart as you make it out to be. I believe the extra price of Zebralight is also worth it for the features (UI, LED options) and engineering to get the size down compared to other lights with switches.


----------



## snowlover91

eraursls1984 said:


> My Fenix never chipped, only tiny specs wore off similar to my oldest Zebralight. I compared the Zebralight SC600 and SC62 to the Fenix E35 as that is the closest Fenix to fit my needs (and they all use 18650s, and have similar diameter). I was comparing the ~10 lumen to ~450 lumen modes as those are most important for long term use in the field or in an emergency situation. You could argue that Fenix's specs aren't exactly accurate, and you'd be correct, but Zebralights specs are not accurate either. On similar modes (one particular one I remember is Zebralight 12 claimed lumens, Fenix 10 claimed lumens) my Fenix seemed brighter.
> 
> IMO Zebralight is a better light, but it's not world's apart as you make it out to be. I believe the extra price of Zebralight is also worth it for the features (UI, LED options) and engineering to get the size down compared to other lights with switches.



It depends on what a person values and is looking for. If someone likes the Fenix UI better and the cheaper price then it might be a better option. However if someone is looking for high CRI, more customizable modes, neutral white options, a silicon headband mount (which is superior in cold weather), PID regulation or the better anodizing then the ZL is the better choice. 

Something to keep in mind when comparing the 10 vs 12 lumen output modes, our eyes aren't the best gauges of brightness. A cool white light can appear brighter than a neutral white or warmer tint with the exact same lumen output. The high CRI makes a big difference when outdoors especially on a trail at night. The silicon mount is much better for cold weather and the anodizing of Zebralight is better than other brands I've used that are rated HAIII. I've had Nitecore, Fenix, Niteye, etc and none of them stand up as well to my EDC tasks like the Zebralight anodizing does. In fact my dad has one on his keychain with not a scratch off the anodizing and he's used it daily since Father's Day. That's pretty impressive imo and no other keychain light I've given him with HAIII anodizing has faired that well. I do think the difference in user experience, CRI, anodizing, thermal regulation and overall UI on the ZL make it well worth the extra few dollars spent.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Well, you guys talked me into it. ZL H600Fd MKIII on the way.


----------



## BuildingSerenity

I could sell you one at a good price... Not until after I a/b with the new Fenix, however.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Got the Zebralight H600FdMkIII today. I just want to say how nice it is to order a nice light and have it in 48 hours living about 6 hours away from Irving, Tx with free shipping from Zebralight. Man, how i have waited on these group buy lights from China!

Now I know why the high CRI is a thang. First thing I thought of was, jewelry store light. Really like the even beam. I bought my brother a nitecore hc30 a few weeks ago, and while the nitecore is brighter, the coolness of that one is not nearly as pleasing to the eye. 

I have bought a ton of lights in the last few months, and I got the feeling when I put this on, that this may actually be my most useful light I have bought. All the others are really just for play to be honest. There are some purchases you kind of regret after you get the item, but this I already know will not be one of them.


----------



## uofaengr

ateupwithgolf said:


> I have bought a ton of lights in the last few months, and I got the feeling when I put this on, that this may actually be my most useful light I have bought. All the others are really just for play to be honest. There are some purchases you kind of regret after you get the item, but this I already know will not be one of them.



Agree with all this. +1


----------



## ateupwithgolf

NERD ALERT: Last night I used my Zebralight "d" in bed to read a book, instead of the bedside lamp. Can't do THAT with my Fenix TK75vnQ!

Man I like the tint of this thing. My wife thinks I'm nuts (not the first time for she's said that)!


----------



## BuildingSerenity

Tell her she looks pretty in that tint.

It is the best tint I've ever seen. Not that I've seen a lot, but it's beautiful.


----------



## markr6

LOL my wife is sick of my flashlight talk. Whenever she sees a flashlight on a TV show or movie, she sarcastically says "is that a good tint??"


----------



## BuildingSerenity

That's mighty funny!


----------



## ateupwithgolf

markr6 said:


> LOL my wife is sick of my flashlight talk. Whenever she sees a flashlight on a TV show or movie, she sarcastically says "is that a good tint??"



HaHa! Classic response!


----------



## Tachead

Well I really like my H600Fd MKIII even more now after using it for a few weeks. It is perfect for my uses and by far the nicest headlamp I have ever owned, tried, or used. I like it so much I have decided to get another for backup/alternative uses. I decided to get the "c" model(4000K) this time as I find the "d" (5000K)to be a little cool for certain uses. I am glad I decided to order it now as the "d" is already on backorder and I imagine the "c" isnt far behind. With all the new models ZL has released and is planned to release, I have a feeling it will be a while before they make more(if ever). I ordered it today and will do a comparison of the two when it arrives.


----------



## snowlover91

Yeah I let my wife borrow my SC5fd for reading at night when I turn the lights out... She liked it so much I had to buy another SC5 because she won't give it back  The combo of the smooth floody beam and nice neutral tint make it a nice light, I can see how this headlamp would be similar!


----------



## gunga

Anyone else have thoughts on c vs D tint?


----------



## scs

snowlover91 said:


> Yeah I let my wife borrow my SC5fd for reading at night when I turn the lights out... She liked it so much I had to buy another SC5 because she won't give it back  The combo of the smooth floody beam and nice neutral tint make it a nice light, I can see how this headlamp would be similar!



Book in one hand and light in the other?


----------



## sidecross

gunga said:


> Anyone else have thoughts on c vs D tint?


I have the H600Fd III High CRI Floody Neutral White 18650 Headlamp and I am very pleased with the tint and find it very good for reading or doing close hand work.


----------



## gunga

Sounds great! I'm considering c tint because I often favour a bit Warmer.


----------



## LessDark

I have the c and it has the best tint of all my headlamps (H52W, Wizard pro warm, H10, H600).


----------



## gunga

Ah thanks. Guess I'll order the c then!

I just wish illumn.com had the c. A lot faster.


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> Anyone else have thoughts on c vs D tint?



I really like the "d" man dont get me wrong. It is still a quite neutral and far from cool. It is one of the best tints I have seen and I have Nichias too. I only got the "c" because I need a backup for my uses, wanted to see what the warmer tint would be like(4300K is the warmest I've had), and because I sometimes find a warmer tint a bit more soothing and/or better for the outdoors or around a camp fire. I will do a comparison when my "c" gets here if you want more info before you decide. I should have it fairly quick as I paid for DHL shipping. It only took 4 days to get my "d".


----------



## scs

I think I'd pick "d" for a flood headlamp, "c" for a floody headlamp, and "c" or "d" for a flashlight


----------



## Tachead

I really think the decision between "d" vs "c" is a personal preference thing most. It also will depend on the uses the light is bought for. I think a good question to ask ones self if you have a "w" or other average neutral white light is; if I had to go one way, for my uses, would it be warmer or cooler? Because the "c"(4000-4100K approximately) and "d"(4700-4800K approximately) are at either side of neural really with an average NW light being around 4300-4500K. Also, consider that most lights will be slightly warmer then their spec at lower brightness levels.


----------



## gunga

Well. Illumn.com had the c! I ordered it. My favourite tint is a 4000K Nichia 219B so that's what I went for.


----------



## scs

Huh..just realized the the XM-L2 easywhite is a 6v/12v emitter...


----------



## Tachead

scs said:


> Huh..just realized the the XM-L2 easywhite is a 6v/12v emitter...



Yep, quad die. I sure like it so far. Combined with the frosted lens it gives one of the nicest headlamp beam/tint combos I have used. And, still has the duel spring battery compartment which I prefer.


----------



## snowlover91

scs said:


> Book in one hand and light in the other?



Yep lol that's it!


----------



## uofaengr

We know the d is somewhere around 4700-4750K. Wish we could get a measurement of the c to see where it actually is.


----------



## Tachead

uofaengr said:


> We know the d is somewhere around 4700-4750K. Wish we could get a measurement of the c to see where it actually is.




From earlier in this thread...



evgeniy said:


> Currently I received H600Fc and Fd lights and tested, white paper + photo camera with RAW, set white balance in Photoshop.
> (I understand, that's my method isn't true precision)
> 
> - ZebraLight H602 : 4600-4650(auto by camera) 4500-4600K (manual), edges is slightly greenish (because naked Led).
> - ZebraLight H600W (I) : 4300-4350(auto) 4250-4350K (manual)
> - ZebraLight H600FD : 4800(auto) 4900-5000K (manual)
> - ZebraLight H600FC : 4050(auto) 3950-4000K (manual)
> 
> for compare,
> - Osram halogen Decostar51 IRC lamp (3000K for 50W model, I tested 20w), 2650 auto, 2650-2700 (manual), very good color.
> - Solux halogen 3500K lamp : 3550K auto and manual. Excellent white color.
> 
> Fd is more contrast (because has more blue light in spectra).
> Fc is better for forest (my opinition).
> -----------------------------
> I don't see PWM in all modes.



Maukka's measurement for the "d" was 4760K and evgeniy's was 4800K so the "c" should be right around 4000-4100K.


----------



## uofaengr

Thanks. Not bad, but don't know if I can justify buying a C right now.


----------



## shira

Stupid question: 

How do you know whether your H600F III is a "c" or a "d"? I ordered a "c", but the only marking I see is what looks like the characters "ce" on the back (except that the "e" has a rounded back [just like the "c"]. Does the "d" have a different symbol?

Edit: See the top photo in post 173: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...i-and-XM-L-2&p=4787224&viewfull=1#post4787224 That's what I see on my headlamp.


----------



## Tachead

shira said:


> Stupid question:
> 
> How do you know whether your H600F III is a "c" or a "d"? I ordered a "c", but the only marking I see is what looks like the characters "ce" on the back (except that the "e" has a rounded back [just like the "c"]. Does the "d" have a different symbol?
> 
> Edit: See the top photo in post 173: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...i-and-XM-L-2&p=4787224&viewfull=1#post4787224 That's what I see on my headlamp.



The box should say Fd or Fc on it. There is now identifying marks on the light itself that I am aware of. The "d" will be much cooler(4700-4800K) then the warmer "c"(4000-4100K) and appear more yellowish(remember there is a variance between emitters and those are just approximate temps). There are beamshots of both earlier in this thread. If you want to confirm then just download a CCT measuring app for your phone like the one listed earlier in this thread. Here it is...





Originally Posted by *uofaengr* 

 
Tint is very nice. Near identical to my ~4700K SC62w, my $1 CCT measuring app shows 4750K on H1 and H2B and 4500K on M1 and M2A which pretty much lines up with what user maukka measured in his awesome review. (yay 1 dollar lol)
Cool, it's an awesome light. What app did you use?

edit: Oh, I suppose this one http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...mperature-apps

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...a.camera&hl=fi


----------



## scs

shira said:


> Stupid question:
> 
> How do you know whether your H600F III is a "c" or a "d"? I ordered a "c", but the only marking I see is what looks like the characters "ce" on the back (except that the "e" has a rounded back [just like the "c"]. Does the "d" have a different symbol?
> 
> Edit: See the top photo in post 173: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...i-and-XM-L-2&p=4787224&viewfull=1#post4787224 That's what I see on my headlamp.



If you have a camera, set white balance to daylight and take a pic of the beam. If it appears very close to white, then it's a "d." If it is noticeably more yellow/orange, then it's a "c"


----------



## geokite

shira said:


> Stupid question:
> 
> How do you know whether your H600F III is a "c" or a "d"? I ordered a "c", but the only marking I see is what looks like the characters "ce" on the back (except that the "e" has a rounded back [just like the "c"]. Does the "d" have a different symbol?
> 
> Edit: See the top photo in post 173: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...i-and-XM-L-2&p=4787224&viewfull=1#post4787224 That's what I see on my headlamp.



No labels on any of the ZL headlights. I have 13 of their headlights, and while some are quite obvious which are which (H502r vs. H52 vs. H502w), others are not. Haven't come up with a good method to keep track of them, other than location in the house based on usage. Knuckle lights (two H502d) go with the running stuff, H502w goes on the backpack, H502r goes on the back of the helmet, etc.

Steve


----------



## shira

geokite said:


> No labels on any of the ZL headlights. I have 13 of their headlights, and while some are quite obvious which are which (H502r vs. H52 vs. H502w), others are not. Haven't come up with a good method to keep track of them, other than location in the house based on usage. Knuckle lights (two H502d) go with the running stuff, H502w goes on the backpack, H502r goes on the back of the helmet, etc.
> 
> Steve



Makes you wonder how ZL staff knows what they're shipping out when there are different versions of the same light. Or how resellers know. There's absolutely no marking on the shipping box to indicate the model, unless it got covered over by the shipping label.

Oh, wait, I peeled up the "USPS Tracking #" portion of the shipping label, and I can see that there is an identifying label underneath. Even though the top layer (including the text) from that identifying label also got peeled and is firmly affixed to the underside of the shipping label, I can easily read the reversed text, which identifies the headlamp as "H600Fc III". Maybe I'll discreetly scratch an identifier somewhere on the headlamp.


----------



## Jobeanie123

gunga said:


> Ah thanks. Guess I'll order the c then!
> 
> I just wish illumn.com had the c. A lot faster.



It looks like illumn has both the H600Fd and H600Fc; the H600Fc link is here: http://www.illumn.com/zebralight-h600fc-iii-high-cri-floody-neutral-white-headlamp.html 

I pushed pretty hard for Illumn to get the H600Fd early on, and the H600Fc was only recently added. It looks like they're both in stock at the time of writing this.


----------



## gunga

Yep. I.bought the Fc from illumn.com.


----------



## newbie66

I am thinking of getting the h600Fd since it has a more neutral tint to replace my h600w mkii. Out of stock at both Zebralight themselves and at the dealer closest to me which carries the brand.


----------



## uofaengr

Used my H600Fd III tonight for about an hour or so while grilling. M1 gives just enough light for this task, and HI CRI is nice when it comes to looking at the doneness of meat. Such a pleasure to use.


----------



## Tachead

uofaengr said:


> Used my H600Fd III tonight for about an hour or so while grilling. M1 gives just enough light for this task, and HI CRI is nice when it comes to looking at the doneness of meat. Such a pleasure to use.



Its a great headlamp, I love mine too. My H600Fc MKIII should be here Wednesday. I cant wait to compare them.


----------



## uofaengr

Tachead said:


> Its a great headlamp, I love mine too. My H600Fc MKIII should be here Wednesday. I cant wait to compare them.


Make sure to post indoor and outdoor comparison pics!


----------



## flybird

Has anyone compare beam shot between H600 c/d with H600FW ? 
I suppose beam shot are very close to each other , diferent would be on the tint as follow :
C ( 4000K) --> FW ( 4400K ) --> D ( 5000K )


----------



## Tachead

uofaengr said:


> Make sure to post indoor and outdoor comparison pics!



I dont have an online photo posting account but, I will comment on the differences.


----------



## Tachead

flybird said:


> Has anyone compare beam shot between H600 c/d with H600FW ?
> I suppose beam shot are very close to each other , diferent would be on the tint as follow :
> C ( 4000K) --> FW ( 4400K ) --> D ( 5000K )



There is beam shots of the "c" and "d" earlier in the thread but, none of all three that I am aware of. Keep in mind that in addition to the CCT differences, the "w" is not as high of CRI as the others and uses the older driver and emitter(it is a MKII) as well.


----------



## uofaengr

Tachead said:


> I dont have an online photo posting account but, I will comment on the differences.


Photobucket is free


----------



## Tachead

Well, I just got my H600Fc MKIII. On my phone app(Color Temp Meter) my "c" measures approximately at 4160K and my "d" measures approximately at 4960K(I say approximately because I just ran a quick test in a semi dark room bouncing them against a cheap piece of white paper). I like them both and think they will each shine at different applications. I will do some testing with the "c" tonight and give a further impression/comparison at a later time.


----------



## gunga

My H600fc only took a week from illumn.com! Love that place. So far I'm loving it. Quiet switch, nicely built, beautiful warm tint (4000Kish). 

I'm using it with a clip. Backup as headlamp. I'm using unprotected batteries so have a lot of battery rattle. 

A post it note solved the issue.


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> My H600fc only took a week from illumn.com! Love that place. So far I'm loving it. Quiet switch, nicely built, beautiful warm tint (4000Kish).
> 
> I'm using it with a clip. Backup as headlamp. I'm using unprotected batteries so have a lot of battery rattle.
> 
> A post it note solved the issue.



What clip are you using? I am running Thrunite 3400mah(NCR18650b) protected cells in mine and they fit perfect with zero rattle.


----------



## gunga

I'm using a clip from a dqg tiny 3/4 clicky. 

I bought a few from the dqg guy. 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?401904-Review-D-Q-G-Tiny-III-18650

Edit, pic:


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> I'm using a clip from a dqg tiny 3/4 clicky.
> 
> I bought a few from the dqg guy.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?401904-Review-D-Q-G-Tiny-III-18650
> 
> Edit, pic:
> 
> View attachment 2002



That looks like it fits really well. I might have to see if I can get one. How did you go about contacting him?b Is there a web store? Is there anywhere else I can find them? I hear the Armytek Wizard one might fit too and maybe the H502 one. I really wish ZL would just get with the program and include one or at least make one


----------



## gunga

I emailed him (another George I think?). Shipping charge was like $8 or something so I ordered a few clips. Using them on a few of my lights. Very firm. Not great for the finish though.


----------



## gunga

Heya. Do you guys find the button is just slightly proud (sticks out) of the head? It's very slight, causes Minor wobble during headstanding. Just seeing if this is expected.


----------



## psychbeat

^^my h600w MKII doesn't protrude 
Hmmm


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> Heya. Do you guys find the button is just slightly proud (sticks out) of the head? It's very slight, causes Minor wobble during headstanding. Just seeing if this is expected.
> 
> View attachment 2004




One of mine sticks up and the other is flush(just the rubber button itself not the pressed in ring). Its probably just minor variation in the production runs of the rubber button or where the switch is soldered on the circuit board, I wouldnt worry about it. The anodizing is darker on one of mine vs the other too. Things like this are normal as they make them in batches/runs just like many other products.


----------



## gunga

It's true. I'm just being obsessive compulsive. I'm better these days but I pops up from time to time.


----------



## gunga

Looks like mine is heading back. On the lowest level, it works for a bit then 3 of the 4 dies stop lighting. It also flickers a lot. The second lowest level flickers a bit too. Sigh. Too bad. Might try again or just return it.


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> Looks like mine is heading back. On the lowest level, it works for a bit then 3 of the 4 dies stop lighting. It also flickers a lot. The second lowest level flickers a bit too. Sigh. Too bad. Might try again or just return it.




oh no How long on the lowest setting(L4) before that happens? It flickers on the lowest 2 modes(L3 & L4)? Could it be a contact thing? What cell are you using? That sucks. Both mine are flawless as far as I can tell. Maybe you got a lemon. I will say that ZL sometimes has issues with the first runs of their new releases until they iron the bugs out. I got both of mine direct from ZL for this reason(to ensure I got the newest production run). Maybe the one you got is one of the earliest or it could just be bad luck. I will say that this is the first bad one that I have read about on any site. The only other issue that I am aware of with this model is there was a shorter run time issue with the firmware on M1 on the first run but, ZL quickly addressed that issue. You could ask your dealer to check the replacement before they send it to ensure its perfect.


----------



## gunga

It fluctuates a lot. Sometimes after a while, sometimes right away. I tried a brand new NCR18650GA as well as a new LG He2. Mostly the lowest mode. A little on second lowest (not tested much yet). 

I dry cleaned the contacts then used de-oxit. Can try a very light sanding of the battery tube next. 

I think I heard about first run sc62s having pulsing low modes too. Sigh.


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> It fluctuates a lot. Sometimes after a while, sometimes right away. I tried a brand new NCR18650GA as well as a new LG He2. Mostly the lowest mode. A little on second lowest (not tested much yet).
> 
> I dry cleaned the contacts then used de-oxit. Can try a very light sanding of the battery tube next.
> 
> I think I heard about first run sc62s having pulsing low modes too. Sigh.




Try using a protected cell if you have one. Maybe the shorter bare cells are a bit loose? I'm running 68.6mm Thrunite 3400mah(NCR18650b)'s in mine. If not, I guess you will have to send her back to Illumn for a refund or exchange. Its a sweet light, too bad your having trouble. I hope you get it sorted out man.


----------



## gunga

Hey thanks! I'll try it. I'm moving to unprotected but have a few bigger cells to try. Looks like sanding the end a touch made no difference. Still shuts off 3 of 4 dies and flickers.


----------



## gunga

No dice. Better overall, but still flickers on and off. Unpredictable. I did catch it on video though. Also caught it switching from 4 dies to 1. It would be cool if this was a feature, but it's not. I don't think the circuit is calibrated properly for that LED on such low currents. Too bad I love using the minimum mode.

Exchanging it for another sample might yield the same results.


----------



## uofaengr

Are any of the dies ever supposed to shut off? I wouldn't think so?


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> No dice. Better overall, but still flickers on and off. Unpredictable. I did catch it on video though. Also caught it switching from 4 dies to 1. It would be cool if this was a feature, but it's not. I don't think the circuit is calibrated properly for that LED on such low currents. Too bad I love using the minimum mode.
> 
> Exchanging it for another sample might yield the same results.



That's too bad. I guess you'll have to send it back.

You just got a lemon, bad luck. I would exchange it and have them check the new one first or get a refund from Illumn and get one from ZL. Both of mine work perfectly on all modes including L3 & L4(zero flickering and all 4 dies are always lit up). I have been using L3 every night before bed and I ran L4 for 5+ minutes multiple times last night to check and both my "c & d" work flawlessly.


----------



## gunga

Oh. Yeah? OK. I'll see what response I get. Good feedback. Thanks.


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> Oh. Yeah? OK. I'll see what response I get. Good feedback. Thanks.



No problem man. Let us know how it works out:thumbsup:


----------



## gunga

Well. Mine is on the way back and a new one is coming soon. Great service from Illumn.com. The light has such beautiful warm tint and flood. Hard to resist.

If I had a choice, I'd get them all from illumn.com. So much faster, a bit cheaper and great service.


----------



## Beacon of Light

I may consider one of the MKIII Zebralight headlamps but so far my 2 MKII 600F and 602 are doing well AS-IS. 

Where does CPF hide the dealers CPF promo code thread these days? I remember before they created the CPF Mall it used to be on CPF Marketplace but that site is read-only now and there is no code listed for ILLUMN.com.


----------



## psychbeat

Beacon of Light said:


> I may consider one of the MKIII Zebralight headlamps but so far my 2 MKII 600F and 602 are doing well AS-IS.
> 
> Where does CPF hide the dealers CPF promo code thread these days? I remember before they created the CPF Mall it used to be on CPF Marketplace but that site is read-only now and there is no code listed for ILLUMN.com.



It's in the Dealers section of the mall now under good deals and is stickied at the top. 

Illumination is the code for ilumn I think but only works on some lights etc.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Thanks *psychbeat*, that worked for my order!


----------



## wormyian

Just got in off the beach and thought i would try My H600Fc MKIII and found that i can see much better looking at the sand than i can with the My H600Fd MKIII must be something to do with the tint no idea why but it defo better.
Only problem was i was plunged into darkness in less than an hour so out came the trusty acebeam H10 need about 3 hrs of light which is impossible with 1 battery , please dont suggest using on lower setting as its just not bright enough for the job need the full power.


----------



## eh4

Ok that does it. 
I've wanted an H600F version for a while now, and this thread confirms that the H600Fc III is it.


----------



## gunga

Just a note. Got a replacement very fast (only a few days). It's been great so far!


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> Just a note. Got a replacement very fast (only a few days). It's been great so far!



Glad to hear gunga:thumbsup:. There great headlamps. I am really enjoying both my "c and d". I cant wait to really put them through their paces this year. Now if winter would just hurry up and end:sigh:


----------



## newbie66

gunga said:


> Just a note. Got a replacement very fast (only a few days). It's been great so far!



Good for you! :thumbup:


----------



## waxing twilight

I think I should have just ordered a H600fc MK III and gotten it over with, trying to wait for the h600w MK III is killing me, lol. Plus I could be getting some very thorough use out of it with so many hours of darkness in a day over the winter. Plus I am really curious about whether I would prefer/how much difference between a floody beam and a regular beam with diffusion film.:beer:


----------



## Tachead

waxing twilight said:


> I think I should have just ordered a H600fc MK III and gotten it over with, trying to wait for the h600w MK III is killing me, lol. Plus I could be getting some very thorough use out of it with so many hours of darkness in a day over the winter. Plus I am really curious about whether I would prefer/how much difference between a floody beam and a regular beam with diffusion film.:beer:



I personally find that a diffused beam is better for 90%+ of headlamp uses over a standard spot/spill beam so I much prefer the frosted lens floody models. While diffuser film/magic tape works, I dont think it is worth the hassle when I prefer floody most of the time. It is also a huge pain carrying and installing diffusion film in the field. I find that carrying a separate flashlight for throw(which I always have on me anyway) is the best option and a floody headlamp - spot/spill flashlight is a great combo. YMMV.


----------



## throwerloverX

Tachead said:


> I personally find that a diffused beam is better for 90%+ of headlamp uses over a standard spot/spill beam so I much prefer the frosted lens floody models. While diffuser film/magic tape works, I dont think it is worth the hassle when I prefer floody most of the time. It is also a huge pain carrying and installing diffusion film in the field. I find that carrying a separate flashlight for throw(which I always have on me anyway) is the best option and a floody headlamp - spot/spill flashlight is a great combo. YMMV.



Could you post some outdoor pics using both h600fc and d version?


----------



## PB Wilson

I received my H600Fd last night and tried it out while I took the dogs out after dark. It lit up my yard so nicely and covered the area using a few different levels quite well.

I've got a camping overnight with my son this weekend and will get to use it for a good long time outside and in the tent. Overall, I believe that it's going to be my go-to light. Good size, nice illumination, lots of levels...what's not to like?


----------



## PB Wilson

My H600Fd was a hit with the campers last night! They had never seen so much wonderful-looking light from such a small package. It worked extremely well in lighting up a large enough area by the pond so the kids could spot fish, salamanders, crayfish and bullfrogs. I'm really glad that I chose the frosted model. It covered a good amount of area in light without any harshness at all. It was a world of difference from all the other lights in the camp. I can't wait to use it on a night hike.


----------



## tops2

After not being satisfied with the tint and CRI of my newly purchased Armytek Wizard Pro v3 XHP35, I just bit the bullet last night and bought the H600Fd. This morning I received the notice its been shipped. Can't wait!
(The UI and form factor of the Wizard Pro is totally fine though.)

After using the Wizard Pro as my EDC light for the past week, I totally see the advantage of using a headlamp as a large EDC (large compared to my Olight S1..). And I love my SC5w so much so I have high expectations from this light! If all goes according to expectations, I'm pretty much done with lights for a long time (with the exception of the Zebralight SC600Fd III Plus..but not sure if I have unrealistic expectation for this Plus version).


----------



## PB Wilson

I've been loving using my H600Fd. I'm very glad I spoke at length with a rep at Zebralight about the frosted lens for a headlamp. I hope you enjoy yours. I just recently bought a SC600w HI and I'm looking forward to a night hike with the two of them. The headlamp to light up the area and the HI to be able to point out specifics at a distance. 

Dare I say I'm done buying flashlights for a looooong while? Heresy?


----------



## tops2

PB Wilson said:


> I've been loving using my H600Fd. I'm very glad I spoke at length with a rep at Zebralight about the frosted lens for a headlamp. I hope you enjoy yours. I just recently bought a SC600w HI and I'm looking forward to a night hike with the two of them. The headlamp to light up the area and the HI to be able to point out specifics at a distance.
> 
> Dare I say I'm done buying flashlights for a looooong while? Heresy?



Until the Plus version? 

But I know how you feel. I'm totally on the fence about the HI version, but keep thinking about it.
For me, these Zebralights seems to be my "end lights"... But we'll see..


----------



## Newguy2012

PB Wilson said:


> I've been loving using my H600Fd. I'm very glad I spoke at length with a rep at Zebralight about the frosted lens for a headlamp. I hope you enjoy yours. I just recently bought a SC600w HI and I'm looking forward to a night hike with the two of them. The headlamp to light up the area and the HI to be able to point out specifics at a distance.
> 
> Dare I say I'm done buying flashlights for a looooong while? Heresy?



Reading about this kinda made me think ordering the flood was a bad choice. I was thinking flood is good for anything within arms reach.


----------



## davidt1

Newguy2012 said:


> Reading about this kinda made me think ordering the flood was a bad choice. I was thinking flood is good for anything within arms reach.



It depends on what you use it for. An all flood beam is very useful as a general area light for tasks such as reading, cooking, taking a shower, putting on your clothes, etc.

For tasks that require your eyes to focus on fine details such as soldering, hand sewing, watch repair, etc., a more narrow beam is better.

As an example: recently I used my H52w with a diffuser film (similar to ZL frosted lens) to do some hand sewing work on my cargo pants. At one point I decided to remove the diffuser film. I ended up liking it better without the diffuser film. Why? With a more narrow beam, my eyes are less distracted by peripheral lumens. 

There is such a thing as too much flood. I think 120 degree is too much flood.

Still I think you will be wowed by all that flood light. Don't worry. You will find plenty of uses for a 120 degree beam all flood light even if it does not meet all your needs. My H502w is my desk lamp which I use 24/7. Only turn it off to change battery.


----------



## roger-roger

davidt1 said:


> It depends on what you use it for. An all flood beam is very useful as a general area light for tasks such as reading, cooking, taking a shower, putting on your clothes, etc.
> 
> For tasks that require your eyes to focus on fine details such as soldering, hand sewing, watch repair, etc., a more narrow beam is better.
> 
> *As an example: recently I used my H52w with a diffuser film (similar to ZL frosted lens) to do some hand sewing work on my cargo pants. At one point I decided to remove the diffuser film. I ended up liking it better without the diffuser film. Why? With a more narrow beam, my eyes are less distracted by peripheral lumens.*
> 
> There is such a thing as too much flood. I think 120 degree is too much flood.
> 
> Still I think you will be wowed by all that flood light. Don't worry. You will find plenty of uses for a 120 degree beam all flood light even if it does not meet all your needs. My H502w is my desk lamp which I use 24/7. Only turn it off to change battery.




I have an H32Fw and with its moderate power level for such detail work (removing thorns etc), _with my eyes_ there's a significant difference using it with 7" or 18" of throw. The former being excellent, the latter just adequate. I've used it for pre-sunrise dog walks, and for close in use really like the frosted Floody lens, which gives a very clean beam of light.

The H600Fw MKIII will bring more of the same and increased versatility, and is definitely on my 2016 wtb list.


----------



## tops2

Talk about fast shipping. Ordered last Thursday and already received it today!

I've only had a chance to do a quick test at the office where its bright so I can't really judge the brightness very well.

So far I love it more than my Wizard Pro. Its got the awesome Zebralight UI. I like the neutral of this light much better. The Wizard clip fits perfectly. Its about 1cm shorter and feels lighter (which it is). The beam is nice and floody with no hotspot. The CRI looks good so far, but its not dark yet so I can't really tell.

My only gripe for the H600Fd right now is M1 feels so dark. I'll have to go home and wait till after dark to compare my SC5w M1 (45lm) vs H600Fd (62lm). But I know the diffused lense may cause the H600Fd to appear not as bright since the beam is spread out a bit more. I'm also not sure if this is the "d" or "c" version as the shipping label blocks the main Zebralight label..but to my eyes, its the nice, slight yellow/neutral tint and not as warm. I'm also getting used to the grip and location of the button as I'm used to a handheld flashlight and not headlamps.


The Wizard Pro has a wider flood (to me) with good even brightness. I like the anodized feel of the Wizard Pro even though it leaves a lot of marks. The magnetic cap is a bonus.


I can't wait till I get home and for it to get dark. I have a feeling I'll like the H600Fd more due to the UI and tint, but both are good lights.


----------



## geokite

Newguy2012 said:


> Reading about this kinda made me think ordering the flood was a bad choice. I was thinking flood is good for anything within arms reach.



And I would say your initial thinking was correct.

I use a H602 around the house the most. Crafts, computer work, attic, dremeling my dogs nails, even use it for night time yard work, all on the brightest non-pid level. I use a H502w or H502d on my waist for night hiking. Unlike most, I prefer to retain the *night time* aspect of night hiking and use the M1 level (about 50 lumens) to give a moonish glow around my feet. And no bouncing spot.

I do not find the 120 degree angle too wide, especially for night hiking.

Steve


----------



## CoherentRays

tops2 said:


> ... I'm also not sure if this is the "d" or "c" version as the shipping label blocks the main Zebralight label..but to my eyes, its the nice, slight yellow/neutral tint and not as warm...


My SC600s have the tint version stamped on the light on the flat portion of the body where it says Zebralight. For instance one of mine reads *ZEBRA*LIGHT SC600w III HI *CE. *I would think yours would have the d stamped on the body too as well as the F. 

Ed


----------



## PB Wilson

My H600Fd Mk III has no marking on it except the CE which is simply a European Conformity stamp for products to be sold in Europe.

I wish mine had a mark or a way to determine which version or which led it has. Might be important in the future.


----------



## tops2

Weird huh?

My Zebralight SC5w OP has the full stamping on the light. But the H600Fd has no marking at all. Looking at it right now, I see no marking..not even the "CE" marking. I did put the Armytek Wizard Pro clip on yesterday..but I don't remember a stamp before I put it on.

Otherwise, I did try to use the iphone camera with 2 different camera apps..shined the light on a white sheet of paper, and turned off the auto white balancing and it seemed like its the "d" version based on the temperature the phone reports. I compared to my SC5w with the same apps and it was warmer according to the apps.

So far, the tint is pretty awesome. I like how this is pretty neutral (not too yellow and not too cool) and the CRI of the light. The size and weight is pretty good too as its not that large and heavy compared to the Wizard Pro. I haven't used it outside a lot yet, but it gives a nice tint outside too. My initial concern about the brightness at M1 is unfounded as I was going from H1 to M1, so it made the M1 seem really dark.. :nana:

I was totally comparing between the H600Fd and SC5w and was confused at first. The hotspot made the SC5w seem more neutral even though the spill is more "yellow" so I kept thinking why does the H600Fd look so warm. And the hotspot made the SC5w M1 level (45 lm) look so bright in comparison to the H600Fd M1 level (62 lm). But the the SC5w doesn't have the spill of H600Fd and actually look a like it has tunnel vision in comparison even though its a pretty floody light. Only after waking up in the morning and thinking about the hotspot did I think I was being confused. I'll try later at night with the scotch tape over the SC5w and compare again.

The main thing I'm losing from the Wizard Pro to this is the maximum brightness, the evenness of the flood, the side switch and the magnetic tailcap. I'm getting used to using the button at the top right now. Otherwise, both lights are pretty awesome. I do like the H600Fd much more as I like the Zebralight UI more, love the tint, and love the size/weight. I'll use this light as my main EDC for the next week. I can see this becoming my main pocket EDC despite the size/weight difference compared to my Olight S1.

Overall, this is my second Zebralight and I'd say..I have no buyer's remorse again this time. I almost think I should just get rid of everything and just keep my 2 Zebralights. I don't even know why I hesitate to buy more Zebralights..(well, its the money).. lol! I can feel my little Zebra farm growing in the future... :nana:


----------



## moldyoldy

FWIW, being stable in the US for the summer, I had the chance to rethink my lighting needs. With an increased focus on walking in darker areas, such as along the Main-Donau Kanal near Nürnberg, I decided to look at headlamps again vis-a-vis a hand-held light. Hand-free is a distinct advantage of headlamps.

This thread convinced me to purchase the H600Fd III. The copy I have demonstrates a wonderful beam tint - especially given that I am allergic to 'warm' beam colors that remind me of the old D-cell flashlights with half-dead cells. During my initial exam, I noted that the H600 had thin metal walls, which means a quick heating effect on higher output levels. I have the SC600 III which really heats up on H1 output.

During my testing of the H600Fd III on H1, my attention was diverted by a website, and after a few minutes I noticed some regular 'flickering'. After another minute, I realized that the output was also dropping. The head of the light was quite hot. I realized that I was seeing the progressive step-down effect of the ZL heat control. The output is dropped until the temp of the head drops under whatever ZL set for the temp limit, which at this room temp of 78 & no airflow, was somewhat below the 500 Lumen H2 setting. The original output was easily restored by an off/on cycle, but then the PID heat control again starts dropping the output. 

I also have the MH20, but the max level is direct drive, so the output naturally drops as the cell depletes, besides whatever ATR effect is present. Other Nitecore lights have temp controls, but I have never noticed the output being regulated down like on the H600Fd III. Rather slick how that functions!


----------



## Bob_McBob

Is it just me or are most people in the thread gravitating towards the H600Fd? Right now I have an SC600w Mk III HI that is not terribly useful for trail hiking at night. I am pretty happy with the tint, which is right between the c and d colour temperature, so it's a tough choice. I want this lamp pretty much exclusively for walking through open fields and forests, so I was strongly considering the H600Fc until I saw how many people seem to prefer the d. If it makes any difference, I have a German Shepherd, so being able to spot him as well as possible against vegetation would be useful, but it's also going to see a lot of use in the winter.

http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/25-zebralight-lampen-im-beamshotvergleich.50095/


----------



## markr6

Bob_McBob said:


> Right now I have an SC600w Mk III HI that is not terribly useful for trail hiking at night.



I don't think many people would be choosing that as their main hiking light. But along with an H600-series headlamp...unbeatable! It's nice to have something that can punch thru small openings or light up things in the distance if you hear something or just need to see out farther.


----------



## KeepingItLight

Bob_McBob said:


> I have an SC600w Mk III HI that is not terribly useful for trail hiking at night.



Would you please elaborate a bit on this? It the beam of the *ZebraLight SC600w Mk. III HI* too narrow for hiking?


----------



## tops2

Bob_McBob said:


> Is it just me or are most people in the thread gravitating towards the H600Fd? Right now I have an SC600w Mk III HI that is not terribly useful for trail hiking at night. I am pretty happy with the tint, which is right between the c and d colour temperature, so it's a tough choice. I want this lamp pretty much exclusively for walking through open fields and forests, so I was strongly considering the H600Fc until I saw how many people seem to prefer the d. If it makes any difference, I have a German Shepherd, so being able to spot him as well as possible against vegetation would be useful, but it's also going to see a lot of use in the winter.





KeepingItLight said:


> Would you please elaborate a bit on this? It the beam of the *ZebraLight SC600w Mk. III HI* too narrow for hiking?



I'm curious as well about the HI in this regard as well. Not too many people had negative things to say about the HI..but for the ones that has some complaints, I'm gathering the main complaint is for close usage, the HI's beam is too narrow. roger-roger has mentioned in another thread that "there's some disappointment in its narrow beam at >30-35'."

I only had maybe a 5 minute demo with the HI and found for close usage, I don't like the narrow hotspot. Feels like I get tunnel vision. And especially at lower levels, the tunnel vision appears worse for me as if feels like there's just such a small lighted "dot". But I've been spoiled by the wide flood of my H600Fd so I'm really not liking small hotspots now. For my preference, (aside from the Plus), I'm thinking the standard MKIII is the correct one for me and it throws far enough for me. I don't like carrying multiple lights just to take a walk. The HI while nice for the throw, it feels too specialized.


But regarding the "c" vs "d", I'd go with your initial gut feeling. I personally prefer ~5000k for just the slight yellow tint so I went with the "d". But I can see for people who prefer warm, the "c" is the right choice. Plus, if you get the "d", you'll probably keep wondering what the "c" is like since you mentioned that's what you strongly were considering initially. Or another option is get the H600Fc, and if you're still curious about the "d", wait for the SC600Fd III Plus since thats also floody, 5000k and even higher CRI than the H600c/d.


----------



## Bob_McBob

tops2 said:


> I'm curious as well about the HI in this regard as well. Not too many people had negative things to say about the HI..but for the ones that has some complaints, I'm gathering the main complaint is for close usage, the HI's beam is too narrow. roger-roger has mentioned in another thread that "there's some disappointment in its narrow beam at >30-35'."



Yes, basically, the hot spot is just too narrow. When I'm trying to follow a trail in the woods or even in an open field, I don't like having to focus on aiming the spot so precisely. You can obviously just crank it up and use the spill, but as others have noted that gives me serious tunnel vision, and I still can't see my feet unless I aim it really close. Here's an example of a narrow forest trail vs. lighting up my back yard (auto WB so you can ignore tint). Don't get me wrong, I do like the SC600w Mk III HI, but hiking and close-ups are definitely not its forte with such a narrow hot spot. It's really bright, has a great tint, and has a nice big spill with a spot that has a ton of reach, but a floody headlamp makes way more sense in this situation.


















tops2 said:


> But regarding the "c" vs "d", I'd go with your initial gut feeling. I personally prefer ~5000k for just the slight yellow tint so I went with the "d". But I can see for people who prefer warm, the "c" is the right choice. Plus, if you get the "d", you'll probably keep wondering what the "c" is like since you mentioned that's what you strongly were considering initially. Or another option is get the H600Fc, and if you're still curious about the "d", wait for the SC600Fd III Plus since thats also floody, 5000k and even higher CRI than the H600c/d.




I will have to think about this some more. Hoping to order this weekend, so hopefully I can make up my mind! The gif I made is quite helpful for comparison. The H600Fd intuitively feels closer to the SC600w Mk III HI, but then you can see how what a huge difference there actually is jumping to the H600Fc. Decisions, decisions...


----------



## psychbeat

I would pick the C personally- I think 5000K is less effective in wet or foggy conditions than a warmer/more yellow tint contrast wise.


----------



## twistedraven

If only Zebralight made a diffuser you could just pop on the front of the HI. For closed-in and dense woods, I too prefer the foody beam of my H600FD, but for most trails, I just find the focused beam of the HI to be more efficient at lighting up more at once. I carry the two in tandem.

I also like using the HI more when around other people who would be hiking at the same time, because it's much easier to just aim its beam away from them when you cross paths, mitigating any chance of blinding them. With the spread out hotspot of the 600FD, that's not as easy to do.


----------



## Collins

geokite said:


> And I would say your initial thinking was correct.
> 
> I use a H602 around the house the most. Crafts, computer work, attic, dremeling my dogs nails, even use it for night time yard work, all on the brightest non-pid level. I use a H502w or H502d on my waist for night hiking. Unlike most, I prefer to retain the *night time* aspect of night hiking and use the M1 level (about 50 lumens) to give a moonish glow around my feet. And no bouncing spot.
> 
> I do not find the 120 degree angle too wide, especially for night hiking.
> 
> Steve



I have been debating between ZL floody and pure flood. I have been leaning toward pure flood as I just plan on using it for upclose work like computer repair and working on cars like in the engine bay. Doing computer soldering work, etc.

Right now I have a cheapo spot light from the stores running on AAA, and it's real annoying having to move the spot around to what I'm working on.

So I'm leaning to pure flood as I like idea of wide beam with no hot spot. As I figure I may waste time trying to focus a "hot spot" directly center to what I'm wanting to look at.

Only concern of pure flood is if while looking in engine bay if it not having much throw means looking at deep valleys in the engine bay would be pure black vs. if using a floody that has some throw.

If ZL takes returns. I may just order a flood and floody to try out as I figure it would be pretty easy to tell which one I'd want to stick with. Or may just keep both.


----------



## WigglyTheGreat

Collins, it's not a bad idea to try both and see what you like, but you probably will end up liking and keeping both. The floody is more useful overall in my experience. Working under a car with all flood may give too much surrrounding light and not enough intensity in the target area.


----------



## Collins

WigglyTheGreat said:


> Collins, it's not a bad idea to try both and see what you like, but you probably will end up liking and keeping both. The floody is more useful overall in my experience. Working under a car with all flood may give too much surrrounding light and not enough intensity in the target area.



That's what I was thinking with pure flood that there may be a lot of surrounding light, but appear dim in the middle where I'd be focusing and thus the surrounding light be distracting. 

With the ZL floody version sitting off-center on your forehead. Does that make the brighter middle appear to be off-center? Or is the brighter middle wide enough that you can't tell it's off-center?

I do wish they'd release a version with the lamp right in the middle.

Right now I'm using the cheap store bought AAA headlamp that is just a dull center spot with some spill. Pretty annoying having to bobble my head all over the place when working on things having to move the spot all over the place say when I drop something on the ground.


----------



## rhygin135

tops2 said:


> Or another option is get the H600Fc, and if you're still curious about the "d", wait for the SC600Fd III Plus since thats also floody, 5000k and even higher CRI than the H600c/d.



Funny you mention it. That's exactly my plan.


----------



## Gogonfable

There are 4 high settings. How do I get to experience the four high settings, even for a few seconds for the PID ones ?

Light Output (runtimes)

High: H1 *1261* Lm (PID, approx 2.2 hr) or H2 *650* Lm (PID, approx 2.8 hrs) / *349* Lm (4.3 hrs) / *155* Lm (12 hrs)
Medium: M1 *68* Lm (33 hrs) or M2 *31 *Lm (73 hrs) / *12* Lm (8 days)


----------



## tops2

Gogonfable said:


> There are 4 high settings. How do I get to experience the four high settings, even for a few seconds for the PID ones ?
> 
> Light Output (runtimes)
> 
> High: H1 *1261* Lm (PID, approx 2.2 hr) or H2 *650* Lm (PID, approx 2.8 hrs) / *349* Lm (4.3 hrs) / *155* Lm (12 hrs)
> Medium: M1 *68* Lm (33 hrs) or M2 *31 *Lm (73 hrs) / *12* Lm (8 days)



You have "2" High settings; the H1 and one of the H2 setting. You toggle between hem by one double click.

For H1, quick click the light. The double click to see if it becomes dimmer or brighter. If it becomes dimmer, double click again to go back to the brighter level, which is the H1. If it becomes brighter, you have reached H1.

To look at each of the 3 H2 settings, quick click from off to get to High.  Double click 6 times to enter "programming mode". After, each double click you do will cycle through each other if the H2 setting. Which ever level you turn the light off at is the level you program for H2. If you want to change the H2 level again, just go through all the double clicks. Don't worry, you can't mess the light up.


----------



## Gogonfable

Okay I managed to get these hidden levels. But is it possible
-without turning off, to leave the programming mode, to get back to normal where I can get to l1, m1, h1 by a long press and then double click to access their respective sub levels
- to replace the normal M1 as the lowest H2?
I think that anything below the lowest H2 is unusable for me. So I want, 
without each time this business of 6 double clicks, to access easily this order by this business of long press and then 1 double click,
-H1
-highest H2
-mid H2
-low H2
-highest M1


----------



## KeepingItLight

Sorry, but the only way to change the output associated with H2 is by going through the programming steps: 

 Select High mode 
Double-click 6 times fast to enter program mode 
Subsequent double-clicks cycle between the 3 levels 
When you see the one you want, click to lock it in. This also turns off the flashlight.


----------



## StandardBattery

Gogonfable said:


> Okay I managed to get these hidden levels. But is it possible
> -without turning off, to leave the programming mode, to get back to normal where I can get to l1, m1, h1 by a long press and then double click to access their respective sub levels
> - to replace the normal M1 as the lowest H2?
> I think that anything below the lowest H2 is unusable for me. So I want,
> without each time this business of 6 double clicks, to access easily this order by this business of long press and then 1 double click,
> -H1
> -highest H2
> -mid H2
> -low H2
> -highest M1


Not possible, it's not s fully programable interface. You can only have 3 of the levels in your list; M1 one H2 and H1. you can setup couple click from off to be your M1, single click from off for H2 or H1 (last used H), double click from H1 or H2 to get the opposite H level. That only gets you 3 of the 5 levels you want.


----------



## roger-roger

Helpful thread. Anyone find issue with the weight and size of the H600 series, compared to the H32 (and H52) series?


----------



## psychbeat

roger-roger said:


> Helpful thread. Anyone find issue with the weight and size of the H600 series, compared to the H32 (and H52) series?



Not a problem for me - u do get a bit more bounce when jogging but it can be tuned out with the headband. 

Overall the weight is less on longer trips as 1 3500mah 18650 is about 4 AA or 123 sized cells so you rarely need to bring spares.


----------



## roger-roger

psychbeat said:


> Not a problem for me - u do get a bit more bounce when jogging but it can be tuned out with the headband.
> 
> Overall the weight is less on longer trips as 1 3500mah 18650 is about 4 AA or 123 sized cells so you rarely need to bring spares.




Thanks. I taped 5 quarters to the end of an H32, and the 1.3 oz weight increase is not unnoticeable but probably bearable. In terms of boingy-ness, it definitely taxes the center strapless headband, that comes with the smaller light.


----------



## roger-roger

Meant to put in an order this past Monday, but I'm stuck analyzed, paralyzed. Leaning away from the Fd and still considering the Fc. I'd be satisfied with plain neutral white, although sans the H-CRI eye candy.

Anyone buy the Fc and regret it?


----------



## markr6

roger-roger said:


> Thanks. I taped 5 quarters to the end of an H32, and the 1.3 oz weight increase is not unnoticeable but probably bearable. In terms of boingy-ness, it definitely taxes the center strapless headband, that comes with the smaller light.



I forgot about the center band on the 600 series. I never used it, not even once. I never had a need, unless maybe when running. But for that, the Nite Ize band works MUCH better (item NPO-03-01). Zero bouncing since it's a nylon webbing type material with no stretch. $5 well spent!


----------



## Lumencrazy

roger-roger said:


> Meant to put in an order this past Monday, but I'm stuck analyzed, paralyzed. Leaning away from the Fd and still considering the Fc. I'd be satisfied with plain neutral white, although sans the H-CRI eye candy.
> 
> Anyone buy the Fc and regret it?



I have the High CRI 4500k and it is by far my most favorite light. I will never go back.


----------



## roger-roger

^ Thanks Lumencrazy.


Just went to ZL to order, and they now show the H600Fc III High CRI, in the new body style. By that I mean with the flat-ish section in the middle, instead of continuous fluting along the length of the barrel.

http://www.zebralight.com/H600Fc-III-High-CRI-Floody-Neutral-White-18650-Headlamp_p_172.html


----------



## NICSAK

roger-roger said:


> ^ Thanks Lumencrazy.
> 
> 
> Just went to ZL to order, and they now show the H600Fc III High CRI, in the new body style. By that I mean with the flat-ish section in the middle, instead of continuous fluting along the length of the barrel.
> 
> http://www.zebralight.com/H600Fc-III-High-CRI-Floody-Neutral-White-18650-Headlamp_p_172.html



I just ordered this light (the one with the new picture) and it will be here tomorrow. I'll let you know if they actually upgraded the body.


----------



## psychbeat

Whoaaaasa 
I WANT one ... Might have to order one as well.

Was kinda waiting for a "plus" model and my h600w MKII is still running strong .... And they were out of stock before....and...


----------



## NICSAK

psychbeat said:


> Whoaaaasa
> I WANT one ... Might have to order one as well.
> 
> Was kinda waiting for a "plus" model and my h600w MKII is still running strong .... And they were out of stock before....and...



I think you should[emoji6] my h600fw mkiii came today and I'm pretty surprised with how nice the tint is. Just a nice creamy white. No yellow or green. I'll compare it with h600fc when it comes tomorrow and let you know.


----------



## roger-roger

NICSAK said:


> I think you should[emoji6] my h600fw mkiii came today and I'm pretty surprised with how nice the tint is. Just a nice creamy white. No yellow or green. I'll compare it with h600fc when it comes tomorrow and let you know.




Thanks for your input. I'll probably  wait for your comparison, as I was having a time trying to decide between the Fc and Fw. 

I prefer the fully fluted designed barrel.





psychbeat said:


> Whoaaaasa
> I WANT one ... Might have to order one as well.
> 
> Was kinda waiting for a "plus" model and my h600w MKII is still running strong .... And they were out of stock before....and...



Its been listed in stock for a couple weeks. As for the new pics, my guess is p-r-o-b-a-b-l-y not older than a week.


----------



## NICSAK

Yeah I was going back and fourth for a couple weeks and then when I went to order I noticed the picture changed. I kind of like the fully ribbed body as well but i won't mind if it's the new style. I'll do a comparison tomorrow when the fc comes in.


----------



## psychbeat

I'm assuming the C will be warmer which is what I'm after. 
My H600w is a little on the cool side of neutral and I prefer warmer temps in general - especially with a headlamp.


----------



## NICSAK

psychbeat said:


> I'm assuming the C will be warmer which is what I'm after.
> My H600w is a little on the cool side of neutral and I prefer warmer temps in general - especially with a headlamp.



For sure! I'm right there with ya


----------



## NICSAK

So h600fc came today and it is the fully ribbed body. Very happy because now I can tell the h600fw mkiii and the fc apart easily. The tint on the fc is absolutely beautiful! In my eyes this is the perfect tint. Picture shows tint difference pretty well. Fc on left of course.



img



upload img


----------



## NICSAK

Will get some shots outside tonight if anyone wants.


----------



## roger-roger

NICSAK said:


> Will get some shots outside tonight if anyone wants.




Thanks, plus you lucked out on the older barrel stye, lol. According to ZL they no longer have it in stock, although I wonder if returns go back out as new? 

As for night shots--if you upload them, they will come.:laughing:


----------



## NICSAK

Could be! I wonder if mine was a return from someone that thought it was too warm? Or maybe I got last one in stock in old style. Either way I see nothing wrong with it. Functions perfectly! [emoji106]


----------



## roger-roger

I was hoping I'd get one, hahaha.


----------



## NICSAK

Did you order already? I believe illumn has the fc in stock with same body as mine.


----------



## tops2

Interesting.. I guess the size and weight is still the same as the old body? Too bad I don't have the old page saved.


----------



## markr6

tops2 said:


> Interesting.. I guess the size and weight is still the same as the old body? Too bad I don't have the old page saved.



Check out http://archive.org/web (or google search "way back machine")

You can pull up many sites going back years. For example, the H600F page from 2013: https://web.archive.org/web/2013020...ght.com/H600F-Floody-18650-Headlamp_p_87.html


----------



## NICSAK

H600fw mkiii neutral



gif upload


----------



## NICSAK

H600fc



gif uploader


----------



## roger-roger

Thanks. You can see the increased intensity of the XHP35. I'll continue to deal direct with ZL on this one. They tend to have better resources to deal with wonky tint issues etc, with probably increased chances of keeping replacements in stock.


----------



## NICSAK

Yeah I'm actually kinda having a hard time here. I guess I would consider myself a tint snob and the tint on the fc is beautiful but the tint on the mki fw is actually really nice and the output is significantly higher! Might possibly return and get a h600w mkiii. I hate to do that but it's a huge difference.


----------



## NICSAK

Or I'll probably just end up keeping it and getting the 600w as well [emoji6]


----------



## tops2

markr6 said:


> Check out http://archive.org/web (or google search "way back machine")
> 
> You can pull up many sites going back years. For example, the H600F page from 2013: https://web.archive.org/web/2013020...ght.com/H600F-Floody-18650-Headlamp_p_87.html



Wow! Never knew a website like this existed! Thanks!


----------



## Collins

NICSAK said:


> H600fc
> 
> 
> 
> gif uploader



Is this H600fc the mkiii Hi Cri?

Is the H600fw mkiii neutral actually brighter? Or does it just have a brighter hot spot and the H600fc has more of a balanced output?

I was looking at going pure flood, but was afraid of it having a dark center when looking farther away so thought of going with floody. The H600fc looks to be closer to a smooth flood compared to the H600fw.


----------



## NICSAK

Yup it's the h600fc mkiii hi cri. The h600fw mkiii is actually way brighter. They both have a nice smooth flood but the fc even more so. I can take some more beamshots comparing the two if you would like? Indoor and outdoor.


----------



## psychbeat

NICSAK said:


> Yup it's the h600fc mkiii hi cri. The h600fw mkiii is actually way brighter. They both have a nice smooth flood but the fc even more so. I can take some more beamshots comparing the two if you would like? Indoor and outdoor.



Thanks a million for the beamshots and impressIons. 
I'm still tempted by the C's warmer tint but it's always nice having more lumens.... tough choice. 

I'm still leaning towards the C as I have the MKII600w non frosted and usually have a direct drive single cell compact thrower of some sort w me - unless going ultralight. 

Hmmmmmm


----------



## Collins

NICSAK said:


> Yup it's the h600fc mkiii hi cri. The h600fw mkiii is actually way brighter. They both have a nice smooth flood but the fc even more so. I can take some more beamshots comparing the two if you would like? Indoor and outdoor.



That would be great. 

When indoors say looking at a wall, does the "hotspot" look to be off center since the Zebralights lamp sits off center on your forehead? I've got a cheapo spot headlamp, and I moved it off center and it was annoying having the spot off to the side. Wasn't sure if the Zebralight's Floody models had this effect or if the "hotspot" is so wide and/or smooth to not be noticeable.

Was thinking of just going with pure flood to avoid any off centerness, but saw some pics where the center can look a little dim compared to the sides when looking around.


----------



## roger-roger

NICSAK said:


> Yup it's the h600fc mkiii hi cri. The h600fw mkiii is actually way brighter. They both have a nice smooth flood but the fc even more so. I can take some more beamshots comparing the two if you would like? Indoor and outdoor.




Thanks again for your impressions. How important is the color accuracy of the hi cri Fc in your valuation of its tint? Or is it color temperature that's the main factor?

If you tested the Fw one night and the Fc the next, will you be able to judge the Fc to be of higher color accuracy over the Fw? 

My slight experience in this, would say night to night I can't (or barely can) see the difference.


----------



## marsalla

I know this may be slightly off subject but what zebralight headlamp has best flood? I want something close to the TIR from armytek.


----------



## raduverdes

I just received my first ZebraLight, H600Fd mk3 (ordered from ZL website). The light is fantastic, tint is perfect, wonderful flood. Pictures I've seen don't make justice, in reality everything is much better about this light, tint and "beam" . On Hi max gets warm(not hot) very quickly but I think this is normal for such a little but powerful light. Headband is perfect too. UI is simple and clever, I learned everything about it from this forum. Thank you CPF for advice and ZebraLight for this wonderful light !


----------



## tops2

raduverdes said:


> I just received my first ZebraLight, H600Fd mk3 (ordered from ZL website). The light is fantastic, tint is perfect, wonderful flood. Pictures I've seen don't make justice, in reality everything is much better about this light, tint and "beam" . On Hi max gets warm(not hot) very quickly but I think this is normal for such a little but powerful light. Headband is perfect too. UI is simple and clever, I learned everything about it from this forum. Thank you CPF for advice and ZebraLight for this wonderful light !



Congrats! I'm still super happy with the versatility of this light and still love the tint on mine too (had mine maybe about 1-2 months now).


----------



## dubliftment

psychbeat said:


> Thanks a million for the beamshots and impressIons.
> I'm still tempted by the C's warmer tint but it's always nice having more lumens.... tough choice.
> 
> I'm still leaning towards the C as I have the MKII600w non frosted and usually have a direct drive single cell compact thrower of some sort w me - unless going ultralight.
> 
> Hmmmmmm


 I just got the H600Fc and it is an incredible light. Extremely good color rendering, very pleasing. The differentiation between colors especialy outdoors is amazing. The tint is kind of a creamy white, just like sunlight in the afternoon and beyond any doubt the best I have ever had in a Headlamp. the 800 Lumens are extremely bright for a headlamp and the beam profile is very smooth. Very even, no distinguishable center hotspot. that being said, it still has some throw so that you get a pleasantly lit area up to 10 meters. glad I went with the C, because the D probably would be too cool for me, lacking the reds. I returned a SC62d for that reason (and because it had a flicker issue). The H600FcIII also still has these very low moonlight modes like 0,01 and 0,05 Lumens. really good for night illumination. For me, in two words, perfect headlamp.


----------



## tech25

dubliftment said:


> Very even, no distinguishable center hotspot. that being said, it still has some throw so that you get a pleasantly lit area up to 10 meters.



Up to 10 meters? I would have thought that it "threw" further then that?


----------



## mico

tech25 said:


> Up to 10 meters? I would have thought that it "threw" further then that?


Yeah, mine lights up my ~80 foot garden beautifully, on H1.

I believe there's some variation in the floodiness, but I don't know if it's random or batch.
@ *raduverde, **dubliftment *you probably have the new style with the darker anodising and non ribbed central section?


----------



## raduverdes

My H600Fd Mk3 is green - grey and ribbed, tint is great, I love it !


----------



## eraursls1984

mico said:


> Yeah, mine lights up my ~80 foot garden beautifully, on H1.
> 
> I believe there's some variation in the floodiness, but I don't know if it's random or batch.
> @ *raduverde, **dubliftment *you probably have the new style with the darker anodising and non ribbed central section?


The older models were floodier. The new models have stronger gorilla glass that is slightly less floody.


----------



## mico

eraursls1984 said:


> The older models were floodier. The new models have stronger gorilla glass that is slightly less floody.


Hmmm. Well my H600Fc mkiii is the older fully ribbed style, although bought this year, but is not as floody as my SC5Fc, and it sounds more throwy than some of the models here.

I like the new anodising and style. I just picked up a Hi that came that way. My H603c is so too, which also helps me distinguish it from the H600Fc by touch.


----------



## recDNA

Any of these hi cri lights have a white beam without a hint of yellow or green?


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## mico

recDNA said:


> Any of these hi cri lights have a white beam without a hint of yellow or green?


Does _golden_ count?


----------



## recDNA

mico said:


> Does _golden_ count?


I'm so tempted to say something obscene but no golden doesn't do it for me. Thanks for the 411


----------



## tops2

recDNA said:


> Any of these hi cri lights have a white beam without a hint of yellow or green?



When my H600Fd is on dimmer settings or when directly comparing beamshots with other lights, it appears slightly green sometimes. I usually adjust then love the beam. But to me, its more noticeable at lower settings or with certain "tinted" light pollution, it appears slightly green.


----------



## amorpheus

Hello everyone!

Recently got the H600Fc and 've been using it with Panasonic NCR18650B non-protected battery (which should be OK).
When used on the H1 the torch (and the battery) get pretty warm very quick, which makes me a bit uneasy 
On the bright side even after 30 minutes on H1 it did not get any warmer after the first 1-2 minutes.

I love the Fc's tint (have been a long time Petzl user)!

Cheers.


----------



## dubliftment

mico said:


> Yeah, mine lights up my ~80 foot garden beautifully, on H1.
> 
> I believe there's some variation in the floodiness, but I don't know if it's random or batch.
> @ *raduverde, **dubliftment *you probably have the new style with the darker anodising and non ribbed central section?


 no, I have the old completely ribbed style. And since some were asking: I meant with the H600Fc I have a completely lit up area of 10m around me. like afternoon daylight. of course the light reaches much farther, but since it is a headlamp, these 10m meters do it for me. and I rarely use H1, rather M1 or H2B for night walks - and it is a lot of light on those settings. And I use L2A for reading in bed which is really nice. I think of getting a spare Fc in case mine breaks and they discontinue the light. It is also a great present.


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## dubliftment

Friends, I am so spoiled by the SC600Fd Plus III and the H600Fc III that I dicided to get rid of my SC600w II L2 and SC600W III and get a H600Fd III - just to see how the easywhite daylight LED does for me. Since Zebralight is not going to make an SC63Fc/d, the H600Fc/d are the closest I can possibly get when it comes to an EDC-able 18650 which is brighter than the SC62c. I love this light, but it is quite throwy for my taste, even if I put magic tape over the lens. The frosted lens and multiple die LEDs are really the thing for me. Best tint and beam profile I have ever had in flashlights. Only thrower I will keep is the Astrolux S2 / BLF Kronos X6. this one is so throwy that the lower CRI doesn't matter to me. For the rest I will stick with High CRI from now on. Very much looking forward to the H600Fd III. Unfortunately they are on back order now - no shipping notice yet.


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## limesalt

mico said:


> Does _golden_ count?



That's a good way to describe it, I felt like it was more of a warm yellow than a sickly yellow tint. That being said, I would have a hard time really noticing that unless I was looking for it. I felt like mine was very close to neutral daylight, it was a pleasure to use, probably my favorite tint thus far.


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## limesalt

dubliftment said:


> Friends, I am so spoiled by the SC600Fd Plus III and the H600Fc III that I dicided to get rid of my SC600w II L2 and SC600W III and get a H600Fd III - just to see how the easywhite daylight LED does for me. Since Zebralight is not going to make an SC63Fc/d, the H600Fc/d are the closest I can possibly get when it comes to an EDC-able 18650 which is brighter than the SC62c. I love this light, but it is quite throwy for my taste, even if I put magic tape over the lens. The frosted lens and multiple die LEDs are really the thing for me. Best tint and beam profile I have ever had in flashlights. Only thrower I will keep is the Astrolux S2 / BLF Kronos X6. this one is so throwy that the lower CRI doesn't matter to me. For the rest I will stick with High CRI from now on. Very much looking forward to the H600Fd III. Unfortunately they are on back order now - no shipping notice yet.



I had an H600Fd III briefly, unfortunately it was in my backpack when it got stolen out of my truck, along with about $1,800 in various EDC and camping/bushcraft gear   

I really loved it, I thought the tint was phenomenal, like being outside during a nice, sunny afternoon. I ended up deciding to replace it with the H600Fw MK II, and I kind of regret that; I can't remember why exactly, maybe the ability to use both flat top and button top 18650s in the H600Fw because of the springs vs pins? Anyhow... High CRI is definitely the way to go IMO, if you can get a light with the right UI for your purposes, but that's a whoooole different discussion. On that note, I have an SC600w MK III HI for sale if anyone's interested


----------



## dubliftment

Shipping notice!!! 



tops2 said:


> When my H600Fd is on dimmer settings or when directly comparing beamshots with other lights, it appears slightly green sometimes. I usually adjust then love the beam. But to me, its more noticeable at lower settings or with certain "tinted" light pollution, it appears slightly green.



I am really keen on seeing my H600Fd in person and to comparing it with my SC600Fd Plus. The lights using the cree easywhite emitter are the only ZL flashlights selected within the region of a 2-step-mc adam ellipse, meaning there should be practically no perceivable tint-shift whatsoever. Even the presumed tint-champion SC600Fd plus is selected in a 3-step-region of this ellipse (and will be available again in January 2017). So at least with the H600Fc/d tint lottery should be over. At least my H600Fc is flawless and easily me best tinted flashlight so far. I would like to have a measurement of this light by the cromaticity specialist maukka.


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## dubliftment

limesalt said:


> I ended up deciding to replace it with the H600Fw MK II, and I kind of regret that; I can't remember why exactly, maybe the ability to use both flat top and button top 18650s in the H600Fw because of the springs vs pins?



Sorry to hear how you lost your H600Fd III. But I have never heard that it was using pogo pins? Then the battery tube should be for unprotected 18650 up to 65,2mm only. I don't see this in the specs and my H600Fc has springs on both sides. By the way, I returned an H600w II for its horrible tint and replaced it with the H600Fc - what an upgrade.


----------



## TCY

I thought the 1-step Macadam ellipse is the standard which you don't perceive any tint difference?


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## dubliftment

Well. I thought in 1-step there *is *no tint shift, in 2-step no *perceivable *(for all practical matters). With the 3-step obviously the green can be "creeping in" as someone said of the Fd Plus. So I think the the easywhite with 2-step ellipse is the farthest ZL can possibly go in reducing tint shift and still offering a reasonable price (note that the c/d versions don't cost more than lights with LED selection in a 5 step ellipse.) That being said I have no doubt that some of us would pay 130USD for a light that is within a 1-step of the McAdam Ellipse. Provided that everything else (UI, beam profile, form factor) are a 100% spot on as well. So for now it remains a bit luck of the draw which I recently had with the Fd Plus III and the H600Fc III. Fingers crossed for the H600Fd.


----------



## maukka

dubliftment said:


> At least my H600Fc is flawless and easily me best tinted flashlight so far. I would like to have a measurement of this light by the cromaticity specialist maukka.



Only have the H600Fd but it is perfect.


----------



## TCY

I gotta tell ya I have zero problem paying $130 for a ZL light with a perfect tint. Hell I almost pulled the trigger on a H600Fd but with the Plus I got another high CRI light seemed redundant. If they come up with a 4th gen that delivers 1100+ lumen I would be a happy customer.


----------



## scs

TCY said:


> I gotta tell ya I have zero problem paying $130 for a ZL light with a perfect tint. Hell I almost pulled the trigger on a H600Fd but with the Plus I got another high CRI light seemed redundant. If they come up with a 4th gen that delivers 1100+ lumen I would be a happy customer.



Who knows. If there's enough demand, perhaps they will offer an optional line with hand-picked emitters for a premium. Start gathering signatures.


----------



## dubliftment

scs said:


> Who knows. If there's enough demand, perhaps they will offer an optional line with hand-picked emitters for a premium. Start gathering signatures.


 I am in as well, here is my wish list: 18650 form factor of the SC63 or SC600 / high efficiency / CRI >95 / floody beam profile with OP reflector and frosted lens (a bit more compact than in the FD Plus, i.e. just as in the H600Fc which is perfect for me) / CCT 4500K and 5100K (selectable) / programmable UI with the ZL shortcuts to 6 levels / H1 >1000Lm / several moonlight modes under 1 Lumen down to 0,01Lm. 

Practically an updated and 1-step Mc Adam tint-selected SC600FD. For me the holy grail in flashlights. They could do a limited edition of this and make it only after they got enough pre-orders.

But I think, there is a danger in this. Making such a flashlight could keep us away from the market for quite some time.


----------



## Tachead

I put a lot of hard use on my H600Fd and c MKIII this summer camping, hiking, rock climbing, exc. and I have to say they are great headlamps. They surpass any other headlamp I have ever owned or tried and I am very happy with them. I too hope they make a flashlight version of them(a SC63 version would be perfect). Here they are in their case, ready for my next adventure.


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## tech25

Tachead said:


> I put a lot of hard use on my H600Fd and c MKIII this summer camping, hiking, rock climbing, exc. and I have to say they are great headlamps. They surpass any other headlamp I have ever owned or tried and I am very happy with them.



What are your thoughts between the two of them regarding tints? Do you have a "w" to compare them with?


----------



## Tachead

tech25 said:


> What are your thoughts between the two of them regarding tints? Do you have a "w" to compare them with?



Well, they are both great but, each is better for different reasons/uses. The "d" is towards the cool side of neutral and is slightly brighter. It is better for daytime lighting tasks or when you are going between dark places and places lit by daylight(home renos, mechanics, wiring, etc.). It is also better for work related tasks as it is a sharper light that keeps you more awake if you get what I mean. Now the "c" is towards the warmer side of neutral and is a much more calming light. It is better for extended night time tasks in full darkness as it more closely matches moonlight. It is better for camping when your around the fire or in the tent late at night and relaxing and is much less harsh. It also is better if you wake up in the middle of the night and need to take a leak, for instance, because it is a warmer light and doesn't wake you up as much(preserves you night vision better). 

Tint wise, the "d" is a more pure white light then the "c" and makes whites look more white. It has great contrast and renders most colours nicely. The "c" is quite a bit warmer and has a yellowy, golden hue to it but, it is more soothing and makes the greens and browns in the forest look a bit nicer I would say.

In conclusion, both are great lights and just excel at different things. I don't think I could get rid of either and I will be keeping both as I need redundancy(for safety) for my uses anyway. Both have above average colour rendering(not quite as good as a 219B but, close) and both have very clean and even tints and beam profiles.

No I dont have a "w" to compare but, it would be somewhere in the middle temp wise and would not render colours quite as well due to its lower CRI. It would be the good middle ground if you are willing to sacrifice some colour rendering and put up with more of a tint lottery.


----------



## tech25

Tachead said:


> Tint wise, the "d" is a more pure white light then the "c" and makes whites look more white. It has great contrast and renders most colours nicely. The "c" is quite a bit warmer and has a yellowy, golden hue to it but, it is more soothing and makes the greens and browns in the forest look a bit nicer I would say.
> 
> In conclusion, both are great lights and just excel at different things. I don't think I could get rid of either and I will be keeping both as I need redundancy(for safety) for my uses anyway. Both have above average colour rendering(not quite as good as a 219B but, close) and both have very clean and even tints and beam profiles.
> 
> No I dont have a "w" to compare but, it would be somewhere in the middle temp wise and would not render colours quite as well due to its lower CRI. It would be the good middle ground if you are willing to sacrifice some colour rendering and put up with more of a tint lottery.



Thank you! You are very descriptive! I recently got my first 219B light and compared to my triple xp-l 4k I have a tough time as to which I like better. (Also a bit tougher due to beam profile) I enjoy the relaxing part of the warmth- but the 219 is just..there. 

I can't really make a decision since I can't tell if it's the tint or the cri that makes the difference to me. I have read up on both and until now just stuck with a 4k tint- malkoff and okluma, but when I am comparing it seems as if a 4k tint and a 5k with a high cri are pretty much the same with colors except for the 4k tint having a slight yellow tinge. 

I mostly use my current headlamp mostly for indoor work, reading and infrequently for outdoors, and think all in all I might like the h600fd better. My other ZL are a sc600w and an H51fw- I have been wanting to upgrade the h51 for a long time- and I like the tint but as it is an Xpg, I don't have any green or blue in in and the color esp green is what bugs me in a light.


----------



## dubliftment

Tachead said:


> Well, they are both great but, each is better for different reasons/uses...


 Thanks for detailing the differences. I am sure glad I went with the same setup and I am very much looking forward do the D that is currently in the mail. What astonishes me most about the H600Fc is the compact beam. It has a very even transition from the middle to the edges. There is no hotspot/ spill profile but it still has some throw to it. Remarkable - for me it works much better than the typical reflector/ clear lens and the 100% pure flood LED only setup. And the SC600Fd Plus which also has a reflector/ frosted lens is sometimes too floody, competely lacking throw and I therefore tend to use the higher modes more often.

Efficiency of the H600Fc might be a bit less than with the H600w II that I had previously, but this is no issue to me. Runtimes are still great and I would prefer the better quality of the light any day.


----------



## StorminMatt

dubliftment said:


> Efficiency of the H600Fc might be a bit less than with the H600w II that I had previously, but this is no issue to me. Runtimes are still great and I would prefer the better quality of the light any day.



On the other hand, the efficiency of the H600Fc is still LOTS better than any multi-emitter Nichia 219 setup. I finally broke down and got an H600Fc at Illumination Supply. And on the way home, I did a night hike up Mission Peak. I was amazed that, in rather cool and windy conditions (which guarantee that the PID is not cutting back output much or at all), it was able to run at H1 for a little over an hour on a 3200mAH NCR18650BD. It didn't even get too warm. Admittedly, the weather was cool and windy. But even under these conditions, my Astrolux would have gotten uncomfortably warm to handle at a similar brightness level (which would have been the step down from max). Not to mention that the light would have dimmed rapidly and the battery would have been drained FAR sooner.

And let's not forget the tint - PERFECT (at least in my opinion) for a night hike. Just a nice warm white that REALLY brings out the colors of nature. Perhaps the CRI is rated somewhat lower than the S41. But I still MUCH prefer the 4000K Easywhite to the slightly greenish 5000K 219B in the S41. All in all, it looks like Cree and Zebralight CAN build lights with great tibts - if they put their minds to it. Now, all we need is a handheld light with this same emitter. Headlamps just don't work so well when you are in a cloud (like the one shrouding the summit of Mission Peak tonight) and when you are getting LOTS of condensation from breathing.


----------



## Kraken

I have a H600FW MKIII sitting in my cart, but I notice there's no "CRI" in the description. Is there in fact a "H600FW MKIII" and a H600FW MKIII CRI"? I have several lights that take the 18650 battery (Nitecore P12 and Fenix TK 75). I have several Nitcore NL189 3400mAh rechargeable batteries - is that a good match for the ZL H600FW? OR are there better options out there? 

Thanks in advance for the direction.


----------



## maukka

The H600Fw III would be CRI80, see Zebralight's spreadsheet.


----------



## Kraken

maukka said:


> The H600Fw III would be CRI80, see Zebralight's spreadsheet.



Thanks for the info - obviously a silly question, but I haven't studied up much on the technical aspects of the modern flashlight. I frequently see 3-4 technical terms in a single post that leave me scratching my head. Thanks for the patience.


----------



## Trango

Hello everyone!
I have been reading this forum for quite some time, but never found the need to register since I found the answers to all my questions just by reading (and I don't have much knowledge of flashlights to contribute). That changed with the last posts here. I lately decided to pull the trigger and go for a 18650 headlamp, and after reading quite a lot of posts here decided for the H600Fc (the light will be mainly used for hiking and mountaineering) but now I'm concerned, if the "normal" H600Fw has 80 CRI is the 3-5 CRI more of the H600Fc worth the 300 Lm loss? Does it make such a difference? Thank you all for your responses.

p.s. I have ordered a couple of weeks ago an Astrolux A01 to get to see how a high CRI, 4000k light looks like but unfortunately It hasn't arrived yet, but even so that should be a 90 CRI light, so basically double the difference between the H600Fw and H600Fc.


----------



## dubliftment

For me, the H600Fc is the holy grail in outdoor headlamps. Incredible tint and color rendering and a floody but compact beamt. I had a H600wII before and I returned it. It is worse tint-wise and concerning color rendering. I don't have a H600FwIII to compare but I certainly had the SC600wIII and I sent it back immediately. So all I can say you have made a very good decision and I am positive you'll enjoy the light. As for the max brightness. First off, the difference between 800 and 1100 Lumen is not as noticable as the difference between 100 and 400 Lumens. Secondly, you will only rarely need those 800 Lumens for the purposes you described.


----------



## roger-roger

Did I just miss the restock of the Fc MK3, or are we still waiting?


----------



## Tachead

Trango said:


> Hello everyone!
> I have been reading this forum for quite some time, but never found the need to register since I found the answers to all my questions just by reading (and I don't have much knowledge of flashlights to contribute). That changed with the last posts here. I lately decided to pull the trigger and go for a 18650 headlamp, and after reading quite a lot of posts here decided for the H600Fc (the light will be mainly used for hiking and mountaineering) but now I'm concerned, if the "normal" H600Fw has 80 CRI is the 3-5 CRI more of the H600Fc worth the 300 Lm loss? Does it make such a difference? Thank you all for your responses.
> 
> p.s. I have ordered a couple of weeks ago an Astrolux A01 to get to see how a high CRI, 4000k light looks like but unfortunately It hasn't arrived yet, but even so that should be a 90 CRI light, so basically double the difference between the H600Fw and H600Fc.



It is not just about the CRI, although a few more CRI still helps. The "c & d" MKIII's use 2-step MacAdam Ellipse Cree XM-L2 Easywhite emitters which have a much lower tint variation then the 5-step XHP35's used in the "Fw" MKIII. Which means you get a consistent clean white tint vs. a random tint lottery between different lights ranging from strong magenta to green. 

As for output, it takes 4 times the lumens to equal twice as bright to the human eye. So, the 292 lumen difference only amounts to about a 6-7% increase in perceived brightness. Will you notice that? Yes, but it will not be a significant difference. Also, consider that with these small lights, the thermal regulation very quickly starts decreasing the output on H1(Max output) as temperatures rise. So, you're only getting that listed output for 15-30 seconds under normal conditions. 

Another difference is the colour temperature. The "Fw" is 4500K typical where your "Fc" is 4000K typical so, your "Fc" will be quite a bit warmer. 

There have been recent reports of a decline in quality with the Astrolux A01. Some of them now no longer come with the same high CRI 4000K emitter and some have a PWM driver with mode memory. Keep this in mind when using for comparison. Your light may not be the same as the ones tested.(See post #23)...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...trolux-A01-AAA-measurements-(Nichia-high-CRI)


----------



## Trango

Thank you for your replies.

@dubliftment
I will probably never use it at 800 Lm, mos of the time I plan on running it on ~100Lm mode, should be enough to see the trail and gives enormous run time. If I'll be satisfied with the headlamp I'm planning to get a flashlight also for the moment when you need throw.
p.s. that about the holy grail sound very nice 

@Tachead
Didn't know that about the MacAdam Ellipse, I mean I read about it, but never figured out what it means. Also didn't know that about the Astrolux A01 (I'm glad it was cheap).

Guess I'll stick with my original choice, now I just have to wait for the H600Fc to get in stock.


----------



## dubliftment

roger-roger said:


> Did I just miss the restock of the Fc MK3, or are we still waiting?


 Mine shipped 2 days after ordering (Sept 10) although website said "back order" all the time.


----------



## dubliftment

Tachead said:


> PWM driver with mode memory...


 the worst thing, it will not start in the same but in the *next *mode than the one previously used. This is how to ruin a flashlight...


----------



## Trango

roger-roger said:


> Did I just miss the restock of the Fc MK3, or are we still waiting?



It is now listed "In Stock" on the zebralight website.

Still "out of stock" in EU


----------



## roger-roger

dubliftment said:


> Mine shipped 2 days after ordering (Sept 10) although website said "back order" all the time.




Thanks, decided to go with an H502w in the meantime--ordered and shipped yesterday.


----------



## dubliftment

My H600Fd III arrived - as expected I am absolutely amazed by the tint and color rendering of this light. It is actually the first light I have ever seen that has a tint which is just white and nothing else. Not yellowish, greenish or whatever. It certainly beats the FD Plus tint-wise, at least I like it more. 

Nevertheless my light seems to have a driver issue. It doesn't hold the H1 and H2A modes, instead upon activation it gives a short flicker and settles somewhere between 350-450Lm. (bit brighter than H2B which is 255Lm but below H2A which is 560Lm). In this mode brightness setting it runs approx. 3,3 hours. It seems as if a capacitator is broken. PID however is not an issue, it works if the light gets too hot. I am using freshly charged MJ1 and 30Q cells, so it cannot be a battery issue. If it was, the light just would step down to M1, but it doesn't.

Since I got the light, I have used it quite a bit and while at first the flicker on H1 lasted about 30 seconds, now its only 1-2 seconds and then it remains in the "hybrid" level mentioned above. My Fc is considerably brighter in H2A and H1 so I will probably return this otherwise fantastic light. in case the flicker goes away completely, I might keep it as a backup and for handing it to my children. 

I always give them my Zebralights configured to the lowest H2C setting (100-150Lm) and never talk about the double-click. But with a ZL that does not have the 800-900LM H1 it is even safer for them.

Also there seems to be a different LED used. I made a pic with both lights on L2C (0,01ish Lumens) and the LED of the Fd seems smaller. In direct comparison it also has a more defined hotspot and more throw than the Fc. I think they gave me a prototype with a Nichia 219b LED. (Don't tell TCY!) Other thoughts on this? https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=42E7C24BB6321EE7&id=42E7C24BB6321EE7%215936&parId=42E7C24BB6321EE7%21139&o=OneUp


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## dubliftment

Maybe someone else can take a pic of both their H600Fc/d on lowest mode as well. Tachead maybe?


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## Tachead

dubliftment said:


> Maybe someone else can take a pic of both their H600Fc/d on lowest mode as well. Tachead maybe?



There is an issue with your "D", it is defective. Both the D&C use the same emitter, the only difference is the colour temperature. The XM-L2 Easywhite that they use are quad die emitters. Both should look like your "C"(the one on the left in your pic). Mine both look like your "C". I suspect that only one of the 4 dies is lighting on your "D"(the bottom left die by the looks of it). That would explain the lowered output and beam profile. Send ZL, or whoever you bought it from, an email about the issue and I am sure they will replace it in short order:thumbsup:


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## dubliftment

thanks Tachead for confirming this. the D is already in the mail for refund and a new one shipped to me. This cuts waiting time in half.


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## Tachead

dubliftment said:


> thanks Tachead for confirming this. the D is already in the mail for refund and a new one shipped to me. This cuts waiting time in half.




No problem. Let us know what you think of the new properly working one:thumbsup:


----------



## Collins

dubliftment said:


> Thanks for detailing the differences. I am sure glad I went with the same setup and I am very much looking forward do the D that is currently in the mail. What astonishes me most about the H600Fc is the compact beam. It has a very even transition from the middle to the edges. There is no hotspot/ spill profile but it still has some throw to it. Remarkable - for me it works much better than the typical reflector/ clear lens and the 100% pure flood LED only setup. And the SC600Fd Plus which also has a reflector/ frosted lens is sometimes too floody, competely lacking throw and I therefore tend to use the higher modes more often.
> 
> Efficiency of the H600Fc might be a bit less than with the H600w II that I had previously, but this is no issue to me. Runtimes are still great and I would prefer the better quality of the light any day.



I'm looking at going with the H600Fc. Decided on a floody light so I have a wide beam, but also have a little throw. But wanted the "hot spot" to be smooth all the way to the edge. This looks like the light. Probably will go with c, but will think about the d. I like just a pure white light without it going "blue" and not too "yellow". Just don't like it cold, just pure white.

I was also looking at the [FONT=&quot]H600Fw Mk III XHP35. Though not sure of what all the difference would be. [/FONT]


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## tech25

I keep on going back and forth between the H600fw mk3 and the H600fc- brighter with a longer runtime on H2 vs smoother beam and better color. This is what I am getting from various owners posts- too bad there is no store near me that I can go to and check them out.


----------



## Collins

dubliftment said:


> My H600Fd III arrived - as expected I am absolutely amazed by the tint and color rendering of this light. It is actually the first light I have ever seen that has a tint which is just white and nothing else. Not yellowish, greenish or whatever. It certainly beats the FD Plus tint-wise, at least I like it more.
> 
> Nevertheless my light seems to have a driver issue. It doesn't hold the H1 and H2A modes, instead upon activation it gives a short flicker and settles somewhere between 350-450Lm. (bit brighter than H2B which is 255Lm but below H2A which is 560Lm). In this mode brightness setting it runs approx. 3,3 hours. It seems as if a capacitator is broken. PID however is not an issue, it works if the light gets too hot. I am using freshly charged MJ1 and 30Q cells, so it cannot be a battery issue. If it was, the light just would step down to M1, but it doesn't.
> 
> Since I got the light, I have used it quite a bit and while at first the flicker on H1 lasted about 30 seconds, now its only 1-2 seconds and then it remains in the "hybrid" level mentioned above. My Fc is considerably brighter in H2A and H1 so I will probably return this otherwise fantastic light. in case the flicker goes away completely, I might keep it as a backup and for handing it to my children.
> 
> I always give them my Zebralights configured to the lowest H2C setting (100-150Lm) and never talk about the double-click. But with a ZL that does not have the 800-900LM H1 it is even safer for them.
> 
> Also there seems to be a different LED used. I made a pic with both lights on L2C (0,01ish Lumens) and the LED of the Fd seems smaller. In direct comparison it also has a more defined hotspot and more throw than the Fc. I think they gave me a prototype with a Nichia 219b LED. (Don't tell TCY!) Other thoughts on this? https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=42E7C24BB6321EE7&id=42E7C24BB6321EE7%215936&parId=42E7C24BB6321EE7%21139&o=OneUp



Do you find the "d" to have a bluish type tent i.e. a "cold" tent? I was looking at going with the "c" as I don't like a cold light. I find cold light to be eye tiring. I'm going to see if I can find comparison pics of something shining both "c" and "d" at wall and in woods at same to get an idea on the tent differences.


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## Collins

Tachead said:


> I agree. My H600Fd MKIII is definitely as cool as I would ever want to go for a neutral white. It is just an ever so slightly yellow pure white with near zero tint shift.



I'm deciding between H600Fc MK III and the H600Fd MK III. The Fc is definitely a warm light from the pics. But I don't like real cold lights (real blue). 

But it looks like to me you are saying the H600Fd MK III has a "slightly yellow pure white with near zero tint shift."?

I'm thinking the Fd might be the light I'm looking for if you are saying it has a "slight yellow pure white" light as the Fc is pretty much just a yellow from what I can tell from the pics. As my type of neutral white light is something in between the "yellow" and the "blue".


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## Collins

ateupwithgolf said:


> NERD ALERT: Last night I used my Zebralight "d" in bed to read a book, instead of the bedside lamp. Can't do THAT with my Fenix TK75vnQ!
> 
> Man I like the tint of this thing. My wife thinks I'm nuts (not the first time for she's said that)!



Does the "d" look blue any?


----------



## tops2

Collins said:


> I'm deciding between H600Fc MK III and the H600Fd MK III. The Fc is definitely a warm light from the pics. But I don't like real cold lights (real blue).
> 
> But it looks like to me you are saying the H600Fd MK III has a "slightly yellow pure white with near zero tint shift."?
> 
> I'm thinking the Fd might be the light I'm looking for if you are saying it has a "slight yellow pure white" light as the Fc is pretty much just a yellow from what I can tell from the pics. As my type of neutral white light is something in between the "yellow" and the "blue".



Mine when used by itself is just slightly yellowish white...but just a bit yellow. It's very pleasant.
I have a Zebralight SC5w that looks more "creamy white". But depending on the ambient light, it's usually pretty pleasing.


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## Collins

tops2 said:


> Mine when used by itself is just slightly yellowish white...but just a bit yellow. It's very pleasant.
> I have a Zebralight SC5w that looks more "creamy white". But depending on the ambient light, it's usually pretty pleasing.



I think I'll get both the H600Fc Mk III, and the H600Fd Mk III to try them out for a few weeks. And the return the one with the least liked temp.


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## dubliftment

Collins said:


> Does the "d" look blue any?



Absolutely not blueish at all. In my opinion it is the whitest white you can get without getting a cool white light. My brother-in-law just had the d here that he had got for Xmas. So we could compare the lights. The D is perfect for inside and C for outside. It is just as simple as that. Both have the most outstanding tint I have ever seen in flashlights.


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## Collins

dubliftment said:


> Absolutely not blueish at all. In my opinion it is the whitest white you can get without getting a cool white light. My brother-in-law just had the d here that he had got for Xmas. So we could compare the lights. The D is perfect for inside and C for outside. It is just as simple as that. Both have the most outstanding tint I have ever seen in flashlights.



Thanks. I only use my headlamps for inside like tearing apart and fixing a computer or something and when working on the car. As during the summer, the car is usually too hot to work on during the day. And I'll wait until evening to work on it.


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## Collins

*Re: Any pure flood coming?*



twistedraven said:


> Quick beam shot of Nichia 219B at 4500k vs XML2 easywhite at 4700k vs Luxeon T at 5000k. To my eyes, the 219B has an overall tannish tint, while the XML2 easywhite has an overall yellowish tint but closer to 'white', while the hotspot of the Luxeon T is truest to 'white', and its spill is cool white. I plan on during a 4 way comparison adding the SC63D at 5000k and using a DSLR as opposed to an old point-and-shoot for better picture quality.



On the middle one, the XML2 easywhite at 4700k.

Is that the new Zebralight H600Fd Mk III?


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## Collins

Tachead said:


> Why not get both? Then you have both your bases covered or you can always sell the one that you like least. I am pretty sure I am going to order the "c" now too because I like the "d" so much(but find it a bit cool for certain things) and need a backup anyway as I have decided to sell my old headlamp.



What things do you find the "d" to be too cool for?


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## Tachead

Collins said:


> What things do you find the "d" to be too cool for?


See post #462.


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## Trango

Finally after a 2 months wait I got my H600Fc, fantastic light with a very nice tint! I only did about 1 hour outside but hope that this weekend I can do a full night hike.
Two questions thought, I've read somewhere that the Wizard's pocket clip fits on Zebras H600, can someone confirm it fits on the H600Fc?
And can anyone recommend a padded case case for the light, headband a possibly a spare cell? I was thinking about a 5xCR123/6xAA case?


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## Tachead

Trango said:


> Finally after a 2 months wait I got my H600Fc, fantastic light with a very nice tint! I only did about 1 hour outside but hope that this weekend I can do a full night hike.
> Two questions thought, I've read somewhere that the Wizard's pocket clip fits on Zebras H600, can someone confirm it fits on the H600Fc?
> And can anyone recommend a padded case case for the light, headband a possibly a spare cell? I was thinking about a 5xCR123/6xAA case?



Glad you like it, I am happy with mine too.

The Wizard clip doesn't fit perfectly. The Nitecore MH20 clip fits absolutely perfectly like it was made for it. It can be found here(version B)...

http://www.nitecorestore.com/Pocket-Clip-for-Nitecore-P12-Flashlight-p/acc-clip-nitecore.htm

As for a case, I use the Gloworm Lights case and it works great. It can be found here...

https://www.action-led-lights.com/c...nd-accessories/products/hardshell-travel-case

Here are my two H600's in it with headbands and a spare cell. It will fit 2-3 spare 18650's with 2 H600's and headbands so there is lots of room.


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## gunga

Do you have a pic with that clip mentioned?


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## Tachead

gunga said:


> Do you have a pic with that clip mentioned?


Sorry, I sold my MH20NW so I can't take a pic but, it really fits perfectly. It is the exact right size for the channels on the light body and can be used in the bezel down or up orientation. It is black Ti coated though so it doesn't match the bezel. I haven't bothered ordering one because I only use my H600's as headlamps and never have the need for a clip. Plus, I have an Armytek C1 Pro V2 XP-L(Warm) now that I keep the clip on if I need a right angled light with a clip.


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## Trango

Tachead said:


> Glad you like it, I am happy with mine too.
> 
> The Wizard clip doesn't fit perfectly. The Nitecore MH20 clip fits absolutely perfectly like it was made for it. It can be found here(version B)...
> 
> http://www.nitecorestore.com/Pocket-Clip-for-Nitecore-P12-Flashlight-p/acc-clip-nitecore.htm
> 
> As for a case, I use the Gloworm Lights case and it works great. It can be found here...
> 
> https://www.action-led-lights.com/c...nd-accessories/products/hardshell-travel-case
> 
> Here are my two H600's in it with headbands and a spare cell. It will fit 2-3 spare 18650's with 2 H600's and headbands so there is lots of room.



Thank you, will try the clip, just need to find a site that ships to Europe and the shipping costs is less than the clip itself 
as for the case, seems nice but I'm looking for something smaller (have only one light to put in it )


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## Tachead

Trango said:


> Thank you, will try the clip, just need to find a site that ships to Europe and the shipping costs is less than the clip itself
> as for the case, seems nice but I'm looking for something smaller (have only one light to put in it )


No problem👍

Olight sells the case for their H1 separately as well and it is a bit smaller I believe. 

http://www.olightstore.com/gear/olight-accessories-case


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## gunga

I just got a skilhunt h03 clip. I think it's same as the nitecore one. I had a stainless dqg mini 3/4 clip they fit perfectly but was not deep carry. This is deep carry.


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## Tachead

gunga said:


> I just got a skilhunt h03 clip. I think it's same as the nitecore one. I had a stainless dqg mini 3/4 clip they fit perfectly but was not deep carry. This is deep carry.
> 
> View attachment 4391
> 
> 
> View attachment 4392



That looks similar to the Nitecore clip but it isn't quite the same. The Nitecore clip has a nice little ramp to let it slide in your pocket easier. It also appears to have a different coating. The depth of carry looks about the same though from what I remember.


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## Trango

OK, got the clip (the MH20 one) and the case, well it's a padded pouch to be precise but it does the job nicely 
The clip fits perfectly, very tight, no need to worry to loose it, but you have to be careful when putting it up or down not to scratch the anodizing on the light (I did :mecry
Couple of pics:


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## Tachead

Glad you like the clip Trango:thumbsup:. I was wondering how it would look on the new style body(both my C&D are from the earlier batches with the original ZL body style). Who makes that case?


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## tech25

Just ordered an H600fc, upgrading from my H51fw!


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## Tachead

tech25 said:


> Just ordered an H600fc, upgrading from my H51fw!


Hope you like it man, it's a great headlamp. Let us know what you think👍.


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## Trango

Tachead said:


> Glad you like the clip Trango:thumbsup:. I was wondering how it would look on the new style body(both my C&D are from the earlier batches with the original ZL body style). Who makes that case?



The maker is me°ru' a brand that can be find around here in sports shops.


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## tech25

Tachead said:


> Hope you like it man, it's a great headlamp. Let us know what you think.



I sure wil! 
I realized that I ordered the H51fw in February 2011 and it's still running perfectly.


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## tech25

I received my H600fc a few days ago and have a few thoughts: Compared to the H51fw- size and weight wise, it’s not much bigger or heavier and I find is better for general use or hiking with an extended runtime at similar levels. However, around the house or reading in bed I prefer the smaller size especially when I have access to a bunch of Eneloops and don’t have to worry about battery consumption.

The tint is amazing! I’m glad I went with the “c” and not the “d” for me It’s a perfect tint showing colors perfectly! No puke green or blue at all, it has a rosy color when white wall hunting but I can’t see it in regular use unless I am on the lower levels.

The beam pattern around the house: I would probably get the H502c for its all flood but for general use it’s a perfect compromise between an annoying, bouncing “spot” and close range flood. That being said I was hoping for a bigger hotspot, compared to my H51fw it is bigger and smoother but the xp-g had an inner and outer hotspot, which together is just a bit smaller, then the xm-l. This eyeball comparison was only done indoors.

My only issue that I have is the settings, I would prefer a fully programmable UI but that will have to wait… I would like to have the lowest of medium mode (8.3lumen) moved down to the low so that I can switch between moonlight and the 8.3 and have a higher medium mode added (so as to have something between the Med1- 57 lumens and the lowest of the high- 107 lumens) but I am nitpicking.

I appreciate the beacon and strobes being easy to access but out of the way of general use. Good for bike light but the triple click means it’s not in the way of day-to-day uses.

I bought the clip for the H51 and it works well, but I think the clip that Trango is using will probably be better. 

All in all this is an amazing light; I am kicking myself for not getting it sooner! I now have to pair it up with another 18650 handheld light for travel. Hmm HDS?!?


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## Ag76

I've been planning on getting an H600Fw, but am wondering if I should consider the H600Fc instead. How does the beam pattern compare between these two lights?


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## Tachead

Ag76 said:


> I've been planning on getting an H600Fw, but am wondering if I should consider the H600Fc instead. How does the beam pattern compare between these two lights?


The beam pattern is almost the same because the only thing different is the emitter(XM-L2 Easy White vs. XHP35) and both are heavily diffused by the frosted lens. It's the colour temperature(CCT) and CRI that are different. The "w" is 4500K/80 CRI and the "c" is 4000K/83-85 CRI. The "w" will also generally not have as pure of a tint and there will be much more of a tint lottery as it is a 5-step MacAdam Ellipse binned emitter and the "c" is a 2-step(much tighter tint tollerance). The "w" will be slightly brighter however, but not a whole lot as you need 4 times the lumens to appear twice as bright to the human eye.


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## Ag76

Thanks Tachead....I'm torn between getting an H600w MkIII vs the H600Fw, and now I'm thinking I should also consider the H600Fc. I'm thinking maybe start off with the H600w, and put try using some magic tape on it if I'm in a situation where I need a more floody beam. This decision would sure be easier if I could try out all three lights somewhere. I've watched Youtube videos until my head hurts! On the other hand, I guess it would be a good excuse just to get another light.


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## Tachead

Ag76 said:


> Thanks Tachead....I'm torn between getting an H600w MkIII vs the H600Fw, and now I'm thinking I should also consider the H600Fc. I'm thinking maybe start off with the H600w, and put try using some magic tape on it if I'm in a situation where I need a more floody beam. This decision would sure be easier if I could try out all three lights somewhere. I've watched Youtube videos until my head hurts! On the other hand, I guess it would be a good excuse just to get another light.


No problem👍. 

Did you watch any of Stefano's ZL comparison videos? 

My personal opinion is the floody("F") Zebralight models offer the most useful all around beam pattern. The regular reflector models(H600) are too throwy for many uses, can give the bouncing ball effect when hiking or running, and don't offer enough spill coverage in some applications. The full flood/mule models(H603 etc.), on the other hand, have too little throw and are only really good for close range uses(although they are great for close range uses). I think an "F" model headlamp combined with a small throwy flashlight offers the best of both worlds and this combination works great imo.


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## Ag76

Yeah, I've watched hours of Stefano's videos, some of them multiple times. Stefano seems to like the regular Armytek Wizard in several of his videos comparing it to the H600Fw, so this afternoon I ordered one. Then I went ahead and ordered an H600w. I've got a feeling I'll end up ordering one of the "F" models sooner or later. Your advice makes a lot of sense, so I'm hoping the Armytek will cover that base until my wallet recovers and I can decided between the Fw and Fc. I had to buy a charger and batteries today for the lights, (also bought a Nitecore P30 on sale) and thought I better let the wife know what I just spent. She said she didn't have as much a concern about the money spent as she did with my sudden obsession with flashlights. I just blamed it on you guys. 

Tachead, if you had to choose between the ZL H600Fw and Fc, which one would you go with? Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Thanks for the help.


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## tech25

Ag76 said:


> I'm thinking maybe start off with the H600w, and put try using some magic tape on it if I'm in a situation where I need a more floody beam. This decision would sure be easier if I could try out all three lights somewhere. I've watched Youtube videos until my head hurts! On the other hand, I guess it would be a good excuse just to get another light.



I have the sc600w and put diffuser film on it- I like the beam but for my headlamp I don't see myself needing to take it on and off so I got the H600fc. It would be great if we were able to play around with all of them before we buy it...

as as far as the xpl of the wizard it looks really good in stefano's video- the reason I went with Zebralight was the amazing UI and the quality of the ones that I have.

Tachead really explained the difference between the various models perfectly.


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## Ag76

Tech25, between the tint of your SC600w and H600Fc, do you have a preference?


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## psychbeat

I'd go C unless u want the extra lumens of the WF.


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## Ag76

Thanks psychbeat...I found one of Stefano's videos comparing the H600Fw, H600Fc, and the Armytek Wizard V3 warm. The H600Fc and Wizard color temperature looked fairly similar in the video, which I guess they should since they're both supposed to be 4000K. If the H600w has the same color temperature as the H600Fw (4500K), I'm thinking I can compare the Wizard color temperature to the H600w, both of which I have on order. Maybe in this way I can get an idea if I'd prefer the H600Fc over the Fw.


----------



## tech25

Ag76 said:


> Tech25, between the tint of your SC600w and H600Fc, do you have a preference?



Side by side- Without question the H600fc- there is zero green or blue where my sc600w has green but in outdoor use, it's not as noticeable. However the fc shows color better- the "w" is a good tint but I feel more "natural" and "relaxed" with the 4k tints.


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## Ag76

tech25 said:


> Side by side- Without question the H600fc- there is zero green or blue where my sc600w has green but in outdoor use, it's not as noticeable. However the fc shows color better- the "w" is a good tint but I feel more "natural" and "relaxed" with the 4k tints.


It sounds like I may need to go with the Fc. Since I don't have enough experience with tint at this point, I'd probably be happy with either light. At some point if I acquire enough lights, I will probably develop a preference. Thanks for the help.


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## tech25

Remember,tint preference is individual, it took me a while to find what works for me- you might like the fw better- imho you can't go wrong with either. What got me to like the 4k tint (I still don't 100% notice much difference in CRI) was my Malkoff M61N with a 4k xp-g2 I found that I like that tint and now just stick with that if I get a choice. I still like and use some lights with cooler tints but prefer the 4k. 

This is probably didn't help your decision between the two, but you can always do with the classic CPF advice- pick one enjoy it and then get the other☺️


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## Ag76

tech25 said:


> This is probably didn't help your decision between the two, but you can always do with the classic CPF advice- pick one enjoy it and then get the other☺️


That is good advice!


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## Tachead

Ag76 said:


> Yeah, I've watched hours of Stefano's videos, some of them multiple times. Stefano seems to like the regular Armytek Wizard in several of his videos comparing it to the H600Fw, so this afternoon I ordered one. Then I went ahead and ordered an H600w. I've got a feeling I'll end up ordering one of the "F" models sooner or later. Your advice makes a lot of sense, so I'm hoping the Armytek will cover that base until my wallet recovers and I can decided between the Fw and Fc. I had to buy a charger and batteries today for the lights, (also bought a Nitecore P30 on sale) and thought I better let the wife know what I just spent. She said she didn't have as much a concern about the money spent as she did with my sudden obsession with flashlights. I just blamed it on you guys.
> 
> Tachead, if you had to choose between the ZL H600Fw and Fc, which one would you go with? Anyone else who wants to chime in, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Thanks for the help.



The Armytek's beam profile is different then the H600Fc MKIII. I currently have a H600Fc, a H600Fd, and an Armytek Tiara Pro XP-L Warm(same emitter and optics as the standard Wizard) if you have any questions about the differences. IMO the H600w is the the least useful of the five options(H600w, H600Fw, H600Fc, H603w, Wizard) when it comes to most headlamp uses. Most clear lens/reflector based headlamps are too throwy imo. They don't work as well for close to medium range uses, and the defined hotspot gives the traditional bouncing ball effect when hiking or running. I much prefer the medium diffused beam profile that the "F" series ZL's and AT Wizard/Tiara offers. You still get some throw but they have a nice smooth beam profile without the sharply defined hotspot. 

I chose the H600Fc over the H600Fw because I wanted the higher CRI and cleaner tint it offers.


----------



## Tachead

Ag76 said:


> Thanks psychbeat...I found one of Stefano's videos comparing the H600Fw, H600Fc, and the Armytek Wizard V3 warm. The H600Fc and Wizard color temperature looked fairly similar in the video, which I guess they should since they're both supposed to be 4000K. If the H600w has the same color temperature as the H600Fw (4500K), I'm thinking I can compare the Wizard color temperature to the H600w, both of which I have on order. Maybe in this way I can get an idea if I'd prefer the H600Fc over the Fw.



The XP-L(Warm) Armytek's(Wizard/Tiara) are warmer then the H600Fc and are way warmer then the H600w or Fw. They are around 3500K. The H600Fc will be somewhere in between your H600w and Wizard at around 4000K and will have a cleaner tint and higher CRI then both.


----------



## Ag76

Tachead said:


> The XP-L(Warm) Armytek's(Wizard/Tiara) are warmer then the H600Fc and are way warmer then the H600w or Fw. They are around 3500K. The H600Fc will be somewhere in between your H600w and Wizard at around 4000K and will have a cleaner tint and higher CRI then both.


Well, it looks like my plan is not so good after all. Thanks for the info, Tachead. 

Just as an aside, I ordered the Wizard and the H600w on the same day. The Wizard is out for delivery today, and the ZL which showed "in stock", hasn't been shipped. But I won't be able to play around with the Wizard until batteries and charger arrive on Friday. And being a Texas resident, I also got to pay $7.35 Texas sales tax on the H600w. Not complaining though....


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## scs

The XHP50 Warm Wizard can also have some green, so the ZL F and C are surer bets if tint is important.


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## gunga

I had a warm XPL tiara. Maybe a hint of green. Very subtle though. Not objectionable. One of the nicest neutral XPL I have seen.


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## psychbeat

Man... u guys are making me want a "C" super bad again. 

I was about to buy one but they were out of stock and I ended up getting a Vinh modded H20 with ~4000K XPL-HI which has a gorgeous tint. 
Vinh's driver is excellent and programmable but I still prefer the ZL UI as it's what I'm used to, having had my H600W with me every day for years. 

The shallow reflector of the H20 combined with the uniform tint of the domeless emitter makes for a great beam although there is a hard transition from spot to spill. 
The spot is so huge tho u don't notice it outside and the clear lens makes is more efficient and punchy.


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## Collins

Which neutral white headlamp has the smoothest floody?


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## tech25

I was by a relatives for the weekend and they had problem with the lights in the guest room- I ceiling bounced my zebralight H600fc on medium- 33 lumens- left it running for 2 days without a problem. 

I am glad that I upgraded from an AA to an 18650 headlamp, I didn't have to worry about it at all- just left it running.

My only complaint is- I would like the 8 lumen setting on the low level so that I would be able to have either a sub lumen or 8 lumens on low and next level would be either 33 or 66. The jump from 8 to 66 is too much for me.


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## eraursls1984

tech25 said:


> My only complaint is- I would like the 8 lumen setting on the low level so that I would be able to have either a sub lumen or 8 lumens on low and next level would be either 33 or 66. The jump from 8 to 66 is too much for me.


Hopefully The full line of lights get the new UI this year. This is the only reason I've held off from buying a few headlamps, and a couple more flashlights. I'm also hoping for more modes on the 18650 models (3 per mode set of L-M-H, on at least on mode group).


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## tech25

I bought this headlamp because I figured the new UI would be a long way out, I didn't think that they would have it out this year. 

This is is an awesome headlamp and I don't regret buying it, I will just have to buy the new one just for the programmability and have this as my backup.


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