# js's USL reanimation and revivification thread



## js (Apr 19, 2009)

So, after an absurd amount of time the USL project is finally moving again. I have most, if not all, of the parts that Bill had, and am in the process of trying to bring this project to completion. As far as I know, this is the complete list of outstanding orders. If you think you should be on this list, but are not, please post here or PM me immediately. Also, please contact me with confirmation of your current address if you have not already done so.



> 36. Mark65
> 37. jte.
> 39. DaveNagy
> 44. J_Oei.
> ...



I do not have any chargers or power supplies, but Bill has promised that he will be working on sending those out to fill the outstanding orders. I'll let you know if/when I hear news from him on this front.

Anyway, as I promised in The new and LAST USL build update thread! I took an inventory of the parts Bill sent me, and also several pictures. Here is what we've got to work with:






















Bodies:

12 silver, 13 pewter (+1 fully assembled USL with a bad battery pack), 11 black (+1 FAU w/ bad pack), 1 yellow, 3 blue, 1 red (+1 FAU w/ bad pack).

Heads:

8 silver, 15 pewter, 11 black, 3 blue, 2 red, 1 yellow

Tailcaps:

11 silver, 14 pewter, 11 black, 1 yellow, 1 red, 2 blue.

Reflectors:

15 smooth, 22 LOP, 13 MOP, 4 HOP.

45 62138 lamps. (not pictured, nor any of the items below)

31 cans.

29 sockets.

36 rocker switches

4 good switch guards, 10 "seconds".

19 charging cables.

18 charging pigtails

17 good, charged packs, and 2 packs that haven't been formed and cycled yet.

__________________________________________________________________


I won't close the other thread, but I would like it if we could all switch over to this thread for tracking order, information, questions, comments, complaints, suggestions, and completely off topic discussion and pictures and what not!

Thanks, everyone. I will edit this first post with more info as I have it.


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## js (Apr 19, 2009)

So, I had to work this weekend to cover one of the operators who needed emergency leave, so I haven't done a whole lot, but I did take the inventory and post this new thread as promised.


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## milkyspit (Apr 19, 2009)

Revivification? :thinking:


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## matrixshaman (Apr 19, 2009)

milkyspit said:


> Revivification? :thinking:



I like new words like that


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## paulr (Apr 19, 2009)

One more charging related question: I see in the USL that I got, there's no space alongside the battery pack under the tailcap to insert the Triton temperature probe (I don't have the probe anyway). I'm currently charging at 0.8a and after 11 minutes the pack has gone from 13.8 volts to 15.06 volts. Am I in trouble yet? I'm looking at Bill's old post and wondering if I should have charged at a lower current. It took me a while to figure out how to configure the Triton but I currently have 0.8A charge, 0.1A top-off, 120 minute safety timer, 1800(?) mah max capacity.

Hmm, I may have done something dumb--I pressed the menu and batt type buttons to go to the data display, and I think the Triton has stopped charging. I'm not sure how to restart it other than from scratch, which maybe I shouldn't do right now. The data display is showing the pack at 14.53V, dropping very slowly. I think I had put around 160 mah into the pack at the time that I stopped it. Maybe I will let the light rest overnight, then run it a few minutes, then charge it again, this time not messing with the charger during charging.

Update: I let the light cool down, ran it for a minute or so, and put it back on the charger at 0.5A. It charged for 2 hours(?) then started beeping at me because the 2 hour time limit had run out (I obviously should have set the timer longer since 500 mA is about C/3.5). Pack voltage was north of 16V. I noticed looking at the display during charging, that charge current would sometimes drop to zero, then return to 0.5A. Anyway, I guess the light is in a reasonable, usable partial charge state now. I will try to give it a balancing charge soon.

On another topic:

I see that CBP is "out of stock" on Elite high current AA cells, but I know that such cells are used in lots of cordless tool packs these days. (Cordless tools traditionally used sub-C cells, but the marketing appeal of higher voltage led the mfgrs to use AA cells to get more cells (and more volts) into the same sized pack). Anyway I'm very happy to have gotten a light after all these issues, and if there's a battery pack shortage but a source of more cells can be located, I'm ok with donating some $$$ towards making sure there's enough packs for everyone.


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## js (Apr 20, 2009)

milkyspit said:


> Revivification? :thinking:



re viv i fy:

To impart new life, energy, or spirit to. See synonyms at revive.

(From the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Ed.)


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## js (Apr 20, 2009)

paul,

As you found out, setting the timer to 120 mins will terminate charge early in some cases. If you charge at C/2 (.9 amps), then set the timer for 50 percent over 2 hours, or 3 hours. But, I would instead set a mAh limit on the charge. Set it 20 percent over 1800mAh, or 2100 mAh, and set the time limit to "no limit".

You can stop, and then re-start the charging process, no problem. So, don't worry about that. The only concern is taking a freshly charged, hot pack, and then putting it directly back into a charge cycle. That's bad, because the detection circuitry will never see a peak, as you've already past it!

Pressing the menu and batt type buttons simultaneously will bring you to a readout of the voltage in, voltage out, total mAh delivered, etc. Charging continues during this process. To get back, press the left-most button (batt type is it?). If you press the menu button during charging you will stop the charge (I think that's right). It's OK to immediately restart it by pressing and holding the rotary dial.

As for pack voltage, pay no attention to it. Or rather, don't worry about it until you've actually seen hundreds of charges and get a feel for what it is supposed to be doing. It rather quickly takes a considerable overhead to push current through even a mostly depleted pack, but that doesn't mean it's in danger of over charging.

The check for that is TEMPERATURE. Feel the pack. If it is so hot that you can't keep holding it for more than two or three seconds, STOP THE CHARGE! Especially at C/2, the pack will never get THAT hot, even in the summer months.

As for the temperature probe, you're right, there's nowhere to put it. But don't worry. You don't need it. I used mine for a couple months until I was convinced that the peak detection circuitry was so good I'd almost never need the temp probe. Almost. If you're a real worrier, it's peace of mind. And for charging Li-ion, it's a good idea, just in case, but otherwise, just don't use the temp probe for the USL.

As for new cells, yeah, Lux recommended Elite AA cells to me a while back, and those are probably what I'll use if the CBP1650's are out of stock. We'll see. Mostly I need cells that won't leak or die in short order. But, I'll wait on that until I've built up the 19 USL's for the packs I do have, and maybe Bill will come through with some more packs. We'll see.


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## JeffN (Apr 20, 2009)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revivification


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## J_Oei (Apr 20, 2009)

js, since you're working so hard, you can do mine last.

(the Yellow one!!) it will be a fitting end to such a long project.

It can set the record as the flashlight with the longest build time.


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## js (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks, J_Oei, but I think I'll do yours in order. I'm looking forward to building up that beauty of a light. Expect a pic or two of 'er.

OK, so no responses here from my communiques. So, what the hell, I'm going to just jump to the next person on the list from whom I _have_ heard, and my apologizes to those people in front of Westy.

Westy, I sent you an email. Let me know if a pewter USL is OK.

On another note, two more packs have been formed and cycled and have tested good. Only two more left to check! I'll be starting to build up USL's soon--by this weekend if not before. Mostly I'll be prepping things and trying to remember (or find my notes on) all the lengths of the various wires to cut for smoothest and most efficient assembly, and I'll start soldering the cans w/sockets onto the battery packs. I'll probably do one single USL build to start, to make sure I have all the parameters right, and then go to 9 or 10 at a time after that. I'll keep everyone informed!

Codeman, PM sent.


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## js (Apr 21, 2009)

Oh, and paul, one more thing about the Triton. It does indeed stop charging every few minutes in order to check the no-load voltage of the pack. This is normal. It does steal about 10 percent of the mAh delivered to the pack, though, vs. what you'd expect. For instance, at 1 amp, you'd expect 1000mAh in one hour. But you get about 900 mAh delivered in that time instead, due to the times when charging is stopped to check voltage.

Just FYI.


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## paulr (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks! That explains the anomalous drops. And thanks for the additional charging advice.


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## js (Apr 23, 2009)

Westy,

I sent out your USL today via First Class mail. I included a spare lamp and I drilled a new hole for the locking pin. The main lamp is already installed in the light. And I used a LOP because it is the best all around reflector for this light, since the orange peeling on these reflectors is quite light. Let me know when you get it.


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## js (Apr 27, 2009)

Hey guys,

In the interest of avoiding a *TMI* situation, I'll just say that I've been having medical issues and have been out sick from work / life since Thursday until this morning. So, no work at all accomplished. Nor any play, either.  Too bad. It was really nice out. Ah well. I _think_ I'm on the mend at this point, but I'll know more after I see the doctor.


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## js (Apr 27, 2009)

OK. So, if I'm understanding Bill's email to me correctly, that stack of correspondence with no note and no explanation from him actually is the collection of outstanding orders. It looked to me like just a stack of emails detailing changes of address and buying and selling of USL slots. But now that I've checked it out carefully, it does bear a prima facia resemblance to the outstanding orders. This is really good news on two counts: 1. we have a "list" now (assuming it's correct), and 2. there are only 18 more outstanding orders (21 USL's total), which means that I am only short two battery packs to have enough to finish this project (which is no big deal!), and it also means that I can finish this project in fairly short order.

Without further ado, here is the tentative "list".

36. Mark65
37. jte.
39. DaveNagy
48. Flashlightgordan
55. Jerimoth
56. ths11
57.1,57.2 Fat Tony
61. Sakugenken
63. mst3k
66. Catdaddy.
68. Darkgear.com
69. rdh226
71. revv11
72.1, 72.2 Carpe Diem
73. Trashman
75. wantthatlight
78. editedby
31.2, 31.3 bobbo (already received 31.1, hence position at end of list)

If you think you SHOULD be on this list, but are NOT, please post here (or PM me) immediately.


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## js (Apr 27, 2009)

OK. See, I can already tell that that list isn't complete.

44. J_Oei

Is missing.

Anyone else?


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## bwaites (May 1, 2009)

I apologize again for being so incommunicado. 

I have power supplies ready to ship. I also have Tritons ready to ship. 

That said, some have requested the newer Tritons, and right now all I have left are a few of the original Tritons. 

I also understand some have purchased their own power supplies and chargers in the ridiculously long interval that this project has taken, for which I accept complete responsibility. 

So I need to know a few things:

1. Who has purchased their own power supply/charger and needs to be refunded the cost already paid to me? I obviously cannot simply send a refund to everyone, (I have 40-50 power supplies sitting ready to be shipped.) but I can do so to those who have already purchased a replacement.

2) Who would like a refund of their Charger portion of the purchase price so that they can purchase their own charger?

3) Who would like me to buy the new chargers (vs sending the refunded price of the charger with the power supply) and ship them along with their power supply?

I have two "out of US" chargers/power supplies boxed and ready to ship, and one US charger/power supply shipping tomorrow if the owner responds to my email.

The remainder of the Tritons I have in hand can ship next week to those who have received lights, and/or to outside the US buyers, who will have a harder time finding Tritons or something similar.

ALL power supplies/chargers/refunds will ship before the end of May if I have the appropriate information to do so.

Please post here, and PM me here with your email address so I can contact you.

I will email, (not PM) everyone before sending the package to make sure that I still have a valid mailing address, and to give you my working email address.

I would like to personally and profoundly thank Jim for taking on the end of this project. I am humbled by his shouldering this responsibility. 

Bill


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## js (May 1, 2009)

OK folks.

I can actually work at my workbench without pain (or not much anyway--just the usual), so I will do this weekend what I intended to do last weekend. I will start gearing up to build a single USL, start to finish, to get all the details fresh in my mind--wire lengths, procedures, etc.--and I also have two more battery packs to form and cycle, and then next week and next weekend I will do a build of 10 or so all at once, and continue shipping out orders.

That's the plan, anyway. I have emailed Bill a list of everyone to whom I have sent a USL order, so with any luck, power supplies and Tritons will join their respective USL's.


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## paulr (May 2, 2009)

Hi Bill, thanks for keeping in contact with the project. I recently got a light from js and I bought a Triton and power supply to charge it with (mentioned a few posts from the end of the previous thread) so a refund for those items would be fantastic. Wow!


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## flashlightgordon (May 2, 2009)

Hi Guys. 

This is really good news. If you mean out of US, meaning 220/240v compatible it would be great. 

Count me in if possible. 

Henry / Flashlightgordon


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## jason 77 (May 2, 2009)

milkyspit said:


> Revivification? :thinking:



LOL reminds me of a old Doctor Who episode titled "the ark in space" with Tom Baker.....


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## RobinB (May 2, 2009)

I'm in the UK and got my USL and ordered a Triton. I hope the extra shipping won't be too much?


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## DaveNagy (May 3, 2009)

I (paid for and) received my power-supply from Bill many moons ago. And I already own a Triton. So, I don't need anything but the light itself. :twothumbs 

Oh, should I be PayPal-ing some shipping funds to JS?


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## Trashman (May 3, 2009)

Bill, I believe I was supposed to owe $84 (or something like that) to get the Triton upgrade, but if it's possible to not upgrade, and just get the regular charger, that is what I'd prefer to do. Things are different than they were 3 (4?) years ago, and most likely, I'll probably not be using the Triton. In fact, the light will most likely go up for sale, shortly after having received it. My flashaholism is just in a different place, these days, and besides that, I'm more interested in cash, now that I don't have any. (back then, when I had plenty of spending money, I was more interested in lights!)


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## Trashman (May 3, 2009)

What about the extra bulbs and reflectors that were ordered? Will those also be delivered? I believe my package came with 5 extra bulbs, and possibly an extra reflector. Do we have a link to the big spreadsheet that was posted in the beginning?


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## js (May 4, 2009)

Trashman said:


> What about the extra bulbs and reflectors that were ordered? Will those also be delivered? I believe my package came with 5 extra bulbs, and possibly an extra reflector. Do we have a link to the big spreadsheet that was posted in the beginning?



Any extra bulbs and reflectors in your order will indeed be delivered.


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## js (May 4, 2009)

OK, so, still not finished with J_Oei's yellow mag, as I needed some silicone RTV (didn't know I was out), among other things. I'll post pics when I finish. Plus I also think I post the wire-lengths and other parameters here so I don't freaking lose them again. :thinking: I swear I wrote them down last time I built a run of these . . .


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## js (May 6, 2009)

So, we had a disaster here at the accelerator yesterday and I ended up staying late, then needed to go back out to get groceries after I got home, and was wiped out, so I did no work yesterday. Today, however, will be different (barring crazy unforseen stuff) and I will get J_Oei's USL internals in place with RTV drying overnight. And if I have the time/energy, I will also post pics.


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## js (May 7, 2009)

So, I did some work last night as promised . . .

but . . .

I had forgotten all about the guard / switch problems.

1. If I do use a guard, I need to come up with a solution to secure it, otherwise it is lose, which is OK, but not desireable. I have some double-sided tape which I want to try putting between the guard and the light body. It will keep it from moving sideways, but also will add thickness between the switch and the body, which will also increase tightness. Bill has been epoxy-ing the guards onto the bodies, but I don't like this approach as it is difficult if not impossible to disassemble, and the epoxy tends to run out and de-square the corners, sometimes making installation of the switch impossible until you file the hole square again. So, I'm going to try the double sided tape method first.

2. If no guard is installed, the switch is way too lose, but I'm quite sure that just the right o-ring around the switch, between the switch lip and the body, will be the perfect solution.

I will try both solutions out tonight.


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## J_Oei (May 7, 2009)




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## js (May 8, 2009)

Aight,

I discovered something very important last night that I should have noticed weeks ago: there are indeed "guardless" bodies that are machined differently than the "guarded" lights. For some reason I had it in my head that Bill had told me that there was some error and they had all gotten machined the same--or else that he didn't have any guardless bodies left--or SOMETHING. So, I didn't even think to look for differences.

But, indeed, there are light bodies that have very slight machining at the rectangular switch hole, with lots and lots of good solid metal all around, where the switch snaps in nice and tight and clean. Beautiful.

J_Oei, your yellow mag body is guardless! So, that's cool! Do I have a current address for you? If not, be sure to PM it to me.

There are 11 guardless bodies, including J_Oei's: 3 silver, 1 yellow, 2 pewter, 4 black, 1 red.

Now, the guarded bodies situation is much less pleasant. The amount of metal left in at the top front and top rear of the hole is absolutely minimumal. Like paper thin--no exaggeration. So, guards that _attach firmly and securely to the entire top machined surface_ of the body are a *must*. No getting around it. No using an o-ring to take up the thickness. Ixnay on that idea.

We have 13 guards right now, plus 3 empty bodies (silver) with the guards already epoxied in place.

So, that means I can make *27* more USL's with the parts I currently have (not counting battery packs, which I can make more of myself without trouble). This is more than enough to fulfill all the outstanding orders listed in the first post of this thread.

So that's good. However, it means I need to come up with my own attachment scheme for the guards to the guard-machined bodies. I don't like the epoxy route, but it's a viable, tested route and I may just use it.

The consumer grade 3M double sided tape I tried last night would work in a pinch--sort of--but is less than great, to say the least. I'm going to look into using the 3M VHB tape (VHB = very high bond). Chris Reeve Knives uses it to attach the nice wood inlays to the sides of their knives, and it's fantastically strong, and while it is expensive, I won't need much of it. So, I'll look into that, and find out from Bill which epoxy he used.

This won't delay me any longer, as I have three guarded bodies all set to accept internals, and 11 guardless ones, but in the long run, I will need to securely attach guards to some of the guard-machined bodies I have.

So, that's the report. J_Oei, your light isn't ready to go out yet, but it will be soon.


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## Bright Scouter (May 8, 2009)

bwaites said:


> So I need to know a few things:
> 
> 1. Who has purchased their own power supply/charger and needs to be refunded the cost already paid to me? I obviously cannot simply send a refund to everyone, (I have 40-50 power supplies sitting ready to be shipped.) but I can do so to those who have already purchased a replacement.
> 
> ...



Bill, you sent me a power supply with my USL when you sent it. You did not have any Tritons at the time, so I got my own. As for a refund, I would ask you to send it to Jim to help pay for any shipping charges, or more supplies he needs to finish the project. If he won't accept it, send it to me, but I would much rather donate it to Jim.


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## js (May 8, 2009)

Bright Scouter,

Wow! This is very generous of you. Thank you. I can certainly use funds to put towards shipping and batteries and epoxy/tape, etc. So far, almost all of the people have paid for their own shipping, and I'd like to thank them for doing this, too. But I will need to make 3 or 4 new packs, and this will cost about $100, more or less, I would guess.

So, thank you! Much appreciated.


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## js (May 11, 2009)

OK we're good to go. Everything has come back to me, including why I don't want to use fine strand count 16 gauge wire to go from the switch to the + battery contact, and why I used the teflon coated wire cutt-off extra lengths from the ceramic socket wires for this connection, despite it being somewhat more difficult to solder that wire.

Anyway . . . point is, I'm going to do a wave of 5 to 10 of these this week. And also, that J_Oei's light is all ready to ship out.

J_Oei, do I have your address? I'll look through my many PM's to double check (and my emails) but I don't recall getting a confirmed address from you. I assume the one I have is good, but I'd like to be 100 percent sure! Let me know!


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## bwaites (May 12, 2009)

I have been trying to get back to people who have PM'd me and to post a short note here, I keep getting kicked out with a post that says, "Internet Explorer has closed to avoid damage to your computer" whatever that means.

I have received 3 PM's, and I will be contacting each of you prior to shipping power supplies and/or chargers/refunds. 

I have shipped a few of each already, and those should be arriving this week. 

Hoepfully, this will post today.


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## js (May 12, 2009)

I verified J_Oei's address via the internet today and it matches the one I have in Bill's records, and so I have packed it up and will ship it out tomorrow.

I also have the last battery pack forming, and am almost finished a pewter USL with guard, but found that I had stripped my allen wrench for tightening the can set screw, and I had already put in two hours, so I called it a night. Will get another allen wrench tomorrow and finish off the pewter USL, and probably start on another one. I'm thinking I don't want to do a wave of these, as I used up a ton of storage space for all the working parts on this project, and so don't really have much space to keep the 5 or 10 packs/bodies/etc. lying around as I complete the whole batch. I can finish one USL in a night without much trouble, and it's no problem to find space for a single USL to sit on the shelf, awaiting completion. So this will be the plan, then: I'll finish about three to five USL's per week and ship them out as I go.

If your name is on the list in the first post and you haven't verified your address with me, please do so. If you are owed a USL, but are NOT on the list, please post here.

Thanks everyone!


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## js (May 14, 2009)

J_Oei,

Sent out your USL yesterday via USPS priority mail.

The final pack has been formed, cycled, and tested, and it's good. So that's a small good thing!

I don't have the list in front of me to see who fits with a pewter guarded USL light, but I'll check sometime today. Feel free to pipe up if that meets your needs.


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## Trashman (May 14, 2009)

Not sure, exactly what you're asking, or who you're directing the question too, but I'm actually signed up for a pewter guarded light. (I'm towards the bottom of the list, however.)


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## js (May 14, 2009)

OK. It looks like mst3k wants a pewter USL, and I have his address, so his will go out next. I may be able to send it out tomorrow, but it all depends on whether or not I can come home for lunch. Otherwise it will go out Saturday or Monday.

I'll do a black, unguarded one next for Fat Tony.

Trashman, you understood what I was asking! And I got your address. Thanks!

If anyone knows anything about Mark65 or jte, please let me know (and/or let them know about this thread).


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## js (May 15, 2009)

mst3k,

Your order will ship today via USPS priority mail. And it's 100 percent turn-key. The light is charged, ready to use, and has a lamp installed and the head is focused. Just remove the locking pin and let 'er rip. Keep in mind that the battery pack will continue to improve as it sees use.


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## J_Oei (May 16, 2009)

Just back from a trip from NY and found your package.
Putting it on the charger and we'll see how it goes.

Can't believe I'm actually holding a USL.
It has been a long journey.
Thanks Jim, for seeing it through to the end!


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## paulr (May 16, 2009)

Jim, I hate to bring up any subject that points towards your ending up doing even MORE work than the heroic effort you're already making, but if you're buying stuff to build more battery packs to complete pending lights, do you think of making a few extra packs in case some of the packs installed in lights fail after a while? I'd be happy to donate some $$$ towards that.


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## js (May 17, 2009)

paulr said:


> Jim, I hate to bring up any subject that points towards your ending up doing even MORE work than the heroic effort you're already making, but if you're buying stuff to build more battery packs to complete pending lights, do you think of making a few extra packs in case some of the packs installed in lights fail after a while? I'd be happy to donate some $$$ towards that.



No problem. I was planning on it. In fact, I have some news on that front. Some VERY good news. I was talking with Silverfox the other day, and it turns out that the Sanyo Eneloop cells (2 AH AA NiMH low self-discharge) will deliver 8 amps continuous current with a mid-point voltage of 1.1 volts/cell. This is as good as I have been seeing with the Titanium 1800 AA cells! And, I love love love the Eneloop cells! Really high quality cells, and the low self-discharge means you can set your USL (or regulated TigerLight) aside for a year and still have lots of charge left and not worry about ruining your cells.

So, I was thinking that I would make up a couple packs of these for field testing. One for me, and one for someone else (I was thinking maybe Codeman would be interested, although I'm sure that there are others who might be interested). We would test an eneloop USL with about a dozen burns, and measure mAh delivered with a 1 or 2 amp Triton (or similar) discharge to see if the 8 amp, 4C draw is seriously beating up these cells, or whether they just might be up to this crazy task! The packs would be end-to-end soldered packs that I'll make up from 11 eneloop cells. They solder up wonderfully. I love to work with eneloop cells.

Because, if we can get away with using the eneloop cells, that would make me quite happy.

J_Oei,

Did I include your extra reflector, or did I forget it? :thinking: I was worried I didn't pack it.


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## mst3k (May 17, 2009)

js said:


> mst3k,
> 
> Your order will ship today via USPS priority mail. And it's 100 percent turn-key. The light is charged, ready to use, and has a lamp installed and the head is focused. Just remove the locking pin and let 'er rip. Keep in mind that the battery pack will continue to improve as it sees use.


 
Omfg. Really?!?! :twothumbs

I really never thought I would ever see this day come. You are the best Jim. I would still like to sent you some $$ for shipping if you would PM or email me I will gladly send a little something your way. 

I sent Bill my info for my charger stuff, but haven't heard anything back yet.


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## tanasit (May 18, 2009)

Hi,

I bought spot #66 from Cardaddy as per the link below:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/143789

Kindly undate the list.
Thanks,
Tanasit


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## js (May 18, 2009)

tanasit,

Done. Please PM me your address as well.


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## Codeman (May 18, 2009)

js said:


> ...One for me, and one for someone else (I was thinking maybe Codeman would be interested...



You actually read my mine, js. When I found out my pack was dead, I meant to ask about the possibility of using Eneloops. I've got them in my other hotwires and everything else that uses NiMh cells. I haven't had a problem yet, so I think they're a great candidate for the USL. And no delivery problems, either.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has roasted marshmallows using Eneloops....yet!


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## js (May 18, 2009)

Codeman said:


> You actually read my mine, js. When I found out my pack was dead, I meant to ask about the possibility of using Eneloops. I've got them in my other hotwires and everything else that uses NiMh cells. I haven't had a problem yet, so I think they're a great candidate for the USL. And no delivery problems, either.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, no one has roasted marshmallows using Eneloops....yet!



Well, break open the bag, my friend, 'cause I'll have eneloops on the way to me today. :devil: It's a "first"!!! The first light with eneloops to roast a marshmallow. Call Guiness!


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## Bright Scouter (May 18, 2009)

If all works out, I would love to get mine changed over to eneloops when you get done with the rest of the project!


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## js (May 18, 2009)

Bright Scouter said:


> If all works out, I would love to get mine changed over to eneloops when you get done with the rest of the project!



hehe. I was worried that this would happen! 

No problem. I can do a batch of switch-out USL's *if* we deem the eneloops to be suitable. I have 12 of them on the way to me, and then I'll need to make up the pack and do some initial testing, then send it to Codeman for some field testing. Probably won't know for about two to three weeks. But, I won't drag my feet on this. I'm curious my own self.


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## mst3k (May 18, 2009)

Jim, My USL just walked thru the door. OMG what a beautiful light! You did such a great job on the build. This is just ultra clean. You rock!


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## Codeman (May 18, 2009)

It's great to not only see folks finally getting their USL's, but also enjoying them!

I don't have any plans for the next month or so, so I should be able to do my part of the Eneloop testing pretty quickly.


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## js (May 18, 2009)

mst3k said:


> Jim, My USL just walked thru the door. OMG what a beautiful light! You did such a great job on the build. This is just ultra clean. You rock!



Thanks mst3k! I had good stuff to start with, so that makes it easy. (Or easier, anyway).


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## Fat_Tony (May 18, 2009)

Wow, I didn't look at this thread in at least a few days, maybe even a week or so, and now it seems that I missed a lot. Congratulations on your light, mst3k!! BTW, when I arrived home on Friday, there was a UPS 'Sorry we missed you' note on my front door. Did you send a light to me, too, js, per your post 39, or was that package something else I ordered? Either way, thank you for all of your hard work, Jim.


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## Fat_Tony (May 18, 2009)

BTW, Bill PM sent. (I would have sent this earlier, but I thought that I was further down the list). I need both the charger and the power supply, Bill. Thanks.


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## js (May 18, 2009)

Fat_Tony said:


> Wow, I didn't look at this thread in at least a few days, maybe even a week or so, and now it seems that I missed a lot. Congratulations on your light, mst3k!! BTW, when I arrived home on Friday, there was a UPS 'Sorry we missed you' note on my front door. Did you send a light to me, too, js, per your post 39, or was that package something else I ordered? Either way, thank you for all of your hard work, Jim.



I haven't yet shipped out your light, Fat Tony, but as a matter fact, I just finished building it. A black unguarded USL. The RTV is drying overnight and tomorrow I'll pack it up and possibly even ship it out, or failing that it will go out Wednesday for sure.


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## mst3k (May 18, 2009)

Fat_Tony said:


> BTW, Bill PM sent. (I would have sent this earlier, but I thought that I was further down the list). I need both the charger and the power supply, Bill. Thanks.


 
PM also sent to Bill, I as well, need my charger and Power Supply.

Thanks


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## Carpe Diem (May 20, 2009)

Hi JS...

I`ve also now sent a PM to Bill giving him my shipping info and indicating that I bought the upgraded Triton charger for each of my two USL orders, and that I still need the chargers and power supplies for both of them (ie. two sets).

JS: you hopefully have my shipping info and email address, but I`ll send another PM to you with that info just in case.

Thanks again for your fine efforts.

*BTW*...I repeatedly told Bill (over the years) to feel free to do my two USL orders last if necessary, so that my battery packs would be hopefully trouble-free. If these new Eneloop batteries work out, please use them in my two lights if at all possible. (I have what some people may consider to be "squatting rights" in that regard over the other pending USL orders. Thank you!  )


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## js (May 20, 2009)

Carpe,

I have your info. As for trouble free battery packs, I'm not sure such a thing exists! :thinking: But, whether I use the Titanium 1800's or the eneloops, your pack should stand a pretty good chance of being relatively trouble-free.

Everyone,

Well, I forgot the package this morning, and so made a special trip back out after work to get it in the mail. Got to the post office at 5:38 PM . . . and found out that they now close at 5:30 instead of at 7:00. I was NOT happy. What a waste.

So, I will send out Fat Tony's package TOMORROW (again). Grrrrrrr.


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## Fat_Tony (May 21, 2009)

Hi Jim,

Since I currently do not have a power supply or charger, how long can I go without charging the USL before I have to worry about the pack dying? Thanks for your help, Jim.


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## js (May 21, 2009)

Fat Tony,

Runtime is only about 10-12 minutes. So, not long.

And, sadly, I am just now leaving work, and the post office is closing, right this second. Once again, I won't be sending out your USL. I'm really sorry! I'll try to escape during lunch tomorrow to ensure it goes out before the weekend.

I got the eneloop cells, and will check out the fit tonight. I don't expect any problems, but we shall see.


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## Fat_Tony (May 22, 2009)

Hi Jim. Thanks for your prompt reply, and no worries about the light. Send it out whenever it is convenient for you to do so. As a matter of fact, since I do not have a charger or power supply yet, if you want to send it to someone who has each of those, that would be OK with me. 

To get back to my question about charging the light, what I meant was: Assume that I receive a USL and do not turn it on. How long can the light exist in this state, without being charged, before the pack fails? Thanks again for your help Jim.


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## js (May 22, 2009)

Fat Tony,

Ah! I see. At least 6 months, no problem, and probably even as much as a year, if you store it in a cool place. But, ideally you would charge your USL at least once every two months, and once a month would be even better. And I'll send out your package today for sure. It's all packed and addressed so I don't want to switch it at this point.

Everyone,

The eneloop cells have no fit issues, even with the stacks wrapped in kapton tape after end-to-end soldering. So that's good. The weekend I will solder up the pack and rebuild Codeman's USL with it and start the testing. I will also build more USL's for order completion.


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## mst3k (May 23, 2009)

And seriously, Bill. If you want to win back some major points here, sending out our Power supplies and chargers would be a really awesome thing to do, don't ya think?


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## Trashman (May 24, 2009)

I'm sure I've missed something about the Eneloops, but are you saying that you'll be making packs using them? That would be awesome. I was under the impression that nothing but the GP cells would be able to handle the current, though. Is that no longer the case?


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## milkyspit (May 24, 2009)

Trashman said:


> I'm sure I've missed something about the Eneloops, but are you saying that you'll be making packs using them? That would be awesome. I was under the impression that nothing but the GP cells would be able to handle the current, though. Is that no longer the case?




I'm pretty sure Eneloops didn't exist when the USL was designed... since then people like SilverFox have been profiling Eneloops and noted their ability to handle a substantial amount of current.

As an aside, one thing in the Eneloop's favor, at least on paper, is its rated capacity of 2000mAh. Typically the cells capable of handling higher current demands have lower rated capacity. A modern consumer-grade NiMH cell typically comes in at 2700mAh or so... those cells most certainly cannot handle the USL's drive current! But the 2000mAh capacity of the Eneloop suggests that that may well have an internal design capacle of handling it. I certainly hope so, as it would make the USL a heck of a lot easier to handle in the care and feeding department!


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## paulr (May 24, 2009)

I'll be interested to see the results of the Eneloop tests. My vague recollection of Silverfox's graphs was that they were ok up to 4A or so, which is pretty good for a NiMH AA cell not specially designed for high current, but that at the 10A range you needed high current cells designed for RC, cordless tool packs, and the like. If Eneloops can really run at USL current levels, that's awesome.


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## Dynacolt (May 26, 2009)

Bill posted out my Triton and it arrived today (thanks Bill). And I got a USL bumper sticker in the package too! Time may have passed, but Bill seems to be coming through slowly now.
The saga is almost over and the wait was well worth it.

Dave.


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## js (May 27, 2009)

paulr said:


> I'll be interested to see the results of the Eneloop tests. My vague recollection of Silverfox's graphs was that they were ok up to 4A or so, which is pretty good for a NiMH AA cell not specially designed for high current, but that at the 10A range you needed high current cells designed for RC, cordless tool packs, and the like. If Eneloops can really run at USL current levels, that's awesome.



This was exactly my recollection as well, but according to Tom, during a recent phone call we had together, at 8 amps, the eneloops have a MPV of 1.1, which is as good as the Titanium 1800's.

So, the question is, will they hold up to this 4C rate for long or do they get beaten up and start losing capacity and/or voltage. We shall see.

On a more important subject, I have done nothing since I last posted. My back injury chose these past four or five days to flare up, and I am now on a string of graveyard shifts for which there is no one else, so I could absolutely not risk being out of action for these shifts. Thus, sadly, I literally just laid low and did no work--or as little as I could. I don't know how these graveyard shifts are going to treat me, but if my back holds up, I'll spend some time at my work bench. I'll keep you all updated.

Sorry about this!


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## LuxLuthor (May 27, 2009)

Obviously Silverfox is the battery guy at the forum. However, I am not sure that Tom has used a lot of "Torch" like incan setups with their 9-10A demands and significant heat buildup. I do not believe the Eneloop was developed for this unique application and stress.

You can do what you want, but my personal guidelines are to use the Eneloops in scenarios where the sustained current is 7-8A. Above that, I use the Elite 1700mAh AA's. I have used at least 300 of them in packs without a single failure I am aware of. They are much more rugged, dependable, and hearty under load than the Titanium 1800mAh, or even the Elite 1500 2/3A.


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## js (May 27, 2009)

Lux,

Yeah. I hear you. And I mentioned your recommendation of the Elite cells several posts above, and that was my original plan, but like you say, Tom is the battery guy, and I love the low self discharge of the eneloop cells, so I figure "why not?" I'm game to actually run them through their paces and see what happens.


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## bwaites (May 28, 2009)

A few chargers and power supplies have made their way out, mostly to the foreign buyers. 

I have only 3 remaining chargers of the old style and have received 3 PM's regarding those, plus one additional. I have also received one request of a downgrade to the stock charger, and I will honor that request as well.

I will get those I have left shipped in the next 3-4 days, and I am waiting on a quote from a local store to pick up some more, of the newer variety.

However, I have received only a total of 5 PM's so I will handle the rest as they come in directing me what to do and how to handle the chargers on an individual basis.

Bill


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## JSO123 (May 29, 2009)

Hi Jim

I' realize that I'm late to this party, but if it is too late to get on the list for this latest USL build, do you have any cancelations, scratch & dents or any other way I might get one? Not fussy about color or switches, just so long as it works...

Thanks for any suggestions.

Scott


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## Carpe Diem (May 29, 2009)

JSO123 said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> I' realize that I'm late to this party, but if it is too late to get on the list for this latest USL build, do you have any cancelations, scratch & dents or any other way I might get one? Not fussy about color or switches, just so long as it works...
> 
> ...


 
PM sent.


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## js (May 30, 2009)

JSO123,

Looks like Carpe Diem might hook you up with a USL, but if not, just shoot me a PM, because the short answer is "yes", I can probably make you a USL. I can't promise anything right now, and I'm pretty much just focused on finishing the outstanding orders, but I doubt it will be a problem.

Everyone,

Charging instructions:

I suggest a C/2 charge. For the Titanium 1800 cells, that means 0.9 amps charge rate. For the Triton, make sure the cell type is NiMH, set the rate to .9 and have no time out, but set the max charge delivered to 2100 mAh, and set the delta V sensitivity to 3 or 4 mV/cell. Also, feel free to set the top off charge rate to 200 mA.

For the Hitec, make sure you're in NiMH mode, and set the rate to .6 amps or somewhat less (be sure to read the right scale-ring on the dial). Then just push the start button. Be sure to monitor the charge towards the end, because the Hitec has been known to miss the end of cycle peak. Or it has done so to me, anyway.

However, MOST IMPORTANT: be sure to INSERT THE BANANA PLUGS INTO THE CHARGER FIRST, before attaching the small black molex connector to the charging pigtail on the light. The reason is because once you connect the charging cable to the pigtail, it is directly connected to the battery pack + and -, and if those two banana plugs touch each other you will short out the pack outputs, putting many amps through the charging cable and molex micro connectors. This will surely fry the small connectors, which are only rated for 3 or 4 amps or something. So, if those banana plugs are already inserted into your charger, then there's no chance of them accidentally touching each other.

Also, I like to stand the USL on its head, grabbing the molex shell on the pigtail with one hand, and it's mating molex shell on the charging cable in the other. Note that there is a locking bar which keeps them mated, and you will need to press on the lever to release the lock before separating them.

I think that covers the charging instructions, but if anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask!


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## Carpe Diem (Jun 2, 2009)

Hi JS...

CPF`er JSO123 has purchased my second USL slot, so please change your purchaser list accordingly. I had two paid slots: 72.1 and 72.2. Slot 72.2 is now owned by JSO123.

If you would, please put JSO123 ahead of me in the pecking order. I`ve sent a PM to you with info re JSO123`s name and shipping address (with a cc to Bill and JSO123).

Thanks again for all of your efforts in this entire venture.


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## mst3k (Jun 3, 2009)

I got my power supply and charger today! Yay. 

Jim any thoughts on using the triton to do a full discharge prior to charging? I had no idea there were so many details involved with charging and discharging these batteries! Pretty cool gizmo this triton is.

Also, just looking at the data sheet that came with the triton, you suggest a .9 amp charge rate, I don't see that as a choice. It seems that 1.0 amps is as close as it gets, but then I haven't fired it up for real yet so perhaps that is a real choice afterall. 

So cool to finally have the whole package in my possession. I never thought this day would come. Totally jazzed.


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## Codeman (Jun 3, 2009)

I don't remember the exact steps, but you can set charge levels at 0.1 increments.


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## js (Jun 3, 2009)

mst3k,

As Codeman points out, you can set the charge rate from .1 amps to 5.0 amps, in steps of .1 amps. There is a total power limit, however, so even if you wanted to, you couldn't charge 11 cells at 5 amps! LOL!

Anyway, you'll figure it out, and if you don't please feel free to post questions here. As for discharging your USL prior to charging, there's no need. Just charge 'er up. Discharge by playing around with it. But remember to always keep an eye on the output and turn off as soon as you see marked dimming (i.e. end of cycle).

Everyone,

OK. So, this is the last of my graveyard shifts. I've managed to make it through them, my back intact, my sanity sort of intact, and my brain severely sleep deprived. I will sleep this morning for 5 or 6 hours, then sleep again after midnight, and hopefully switch over to a normal schedule and catch up on my sleep all in one go.

Thus I will almost certainly begin putting in time at my work bench again starting Friday.

I will also update the list to show the sale of one of Carpe Diem's slots.


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## bwaites (Jun 3, 2009)

mst3k, good to hear! I apologize that it took so long!

I'm in the middle of a 20 straight day work schedule, but it will be the last stretch of this nature this year. 

I have shipped power supplies and chargers as I have received information from buyers about what their desires are.

At this point, I am out of the original Tritons, except for one already committed to overseas, and no one has PM'd be or emailed me their preferred option about whether they want me to buy their Triton and ship their power supply or send a refund for the charger and ship the power supply.

From that, I am going to assume that everyone still wants me to buy and ship the charger. 

I have worked out a deal with a local supplier, and will start processing those as soon as I can. 

I also know that a few buyers have already purchased their own chargers, and I will refund those people soon as well.

Bill


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## paulr (Jun 6, 2009)

PM sent to Bill requesting refund for Triton and P/S. Thanks!


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## js (Jun 7, 2009)

Aiight,

I finished two USL's and they are drying overnight. Tomorrow I will pack them up and mail them out on Tuesday. One of them is rev11's order, but I forgot who the other one is for. Whatever, I'll check tomorrow and post again. Had enough for tonight.


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## js (Jun 8, 2009)

rev11 and Trashman, your orders will go out tomorrow.

Tanasit, I need your address.


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## Trashman (Jun 10, 2009)

What??? I thought, I was months away! This is amazing!


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## js (Jun 10, 2009)

So, rev11 and Trashman, your orders went out yesterday via USPS priority mail, as promised.

Everyone,

I didn't do any work last night as we were celebrating my father-in-laws birthday, but I did go to the post office after work, of course. Tonight I will probably end-to-end solder up the Eneloop sticks for the eneloop pack. Or I may do one or two USL's instead. I'll see what I feel like doing.


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## revv11 (Jun 10, 2009)

Fantastic!! This is truly hard to believe. 

^5's ---> JS


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## js (Jun 12, 2009)

So, I've done a little work over the past two days, but not much. I've had to cover the evening shifts here at work, as well as conduct interviews during the days, so I let the USL work slide. Sorry. And I'm working through this weekend as well, but I'll start doing some USL work again tomorrow.


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## Trashman (Jun 12, 2009)

It actually made it to my door, yesterday, but I must have been asleep. because the mail carrier left a missed delivery slip. I picked it up, today, and just turned it on for the first time a couple of minutes ago. Everything is great! Was there supposed to be a guard pin, though, or is that just something we can easily fashion out of any piece of metal? I'd think that it should be something that will go in, but not come out, unless intended. (Edit: I just put a paper clip in there, and while it's not the tightest fit, it does prevent the light from turning on.)

So now, I just need the charger & power supply, which by Bill's last post, I had thought was already sent, but it's been 9 days, since that post, so, maybe not.

Thank JS, you've got a huge heart!


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## mst3k (Jun 12, 2009)

Trashman said:


> It actually made it to my door, yesterday, but I must have been asleep. because the mail carrier left a missed delivery slip. I picked it up, today, and just turned it on for the first time a couple of minutes ago. Everything is great! Was there supposed to be a guard pin, though, or is that just something we can easily fashion out of any piece of metal? I'd think that it should be something that will go in, but not come out, unless intended. (Edit: I just put a paper clip in there, and while it's not the tightest fit, it does prevent the light from turning on.)
> 
> So now, I just need the charger & power supply, which by Bill's last post, I had thought was already sent, but it's been 9 days, since that post, so, maybe not.
> 
> Thank JS, you've got a huge heart!


 
It's just a cotter pin. If it's not in your box somewhere any hardware store will have them for practically nothing. 

Congrats.


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## cass schrabeck (Jun 13, 2009)

Bill wantthatlight has sent you a PM Im no. 75 on the list


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## js (Jun 13, 2009)

Trashman,

OOPS! Sorry! I didn't include a bag of cotter pins because all the previous lights with guards had the switches reversed so that the locking pin would only serve to lock the light ON. In your case, however, the switch is installed in the RIGHT way, and so I should have included the bag of pins. But, I didn't out of habit.

However, I will mail you out a bag on Monday, in an envelope. Should get to you in 3 or 4 days.


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## Trashman (Jun 13, 2009)

Great, thanks!


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## js (Jun 13, 2009)

Bright Scouter said:


> Bill, you sent me a power supply with my USL when you sent it. You did not have any Tritons at the time, so I got my own. As for a refund, I would ask you to send it to Jim to help pay for any shipping charges, or more supplies he needs to finish the project. If he won't accept it, send it to me, but I would much rather donate it to Jim.



Bill,

Did you catch this request from Bright Scouter? PM sent.


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## js (Jun 16, 2009)

So as I mentioned above, I worked over the weekend covering evening shifts, and have also had to do work stuff during the day as well, plus haven't been sleeping good. Add it all together and it equals no work on USL stuff. Well, I did do a little, but I don't have a light ready to mail out yet and I haven't finished the eneloop pack. In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that one of the nights I couldn't sleep I did play with my VoIP box for an hour or so, but I wasn't up for firing up the soldering iron.

Anyway . . . I will! Just can't say exactly when. Tomorrow I have to come in during the day again, as well as work the 4pm to midnight shift, but I think I'm OK for Thursday and I should have Friday and most of the weekend off.

Sorry for the lack of progress recently, everyone.


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## js (Jun 21, 2009)

Just finished off tanasit's USL, and will mail out his order tomorrow after work, after the RTV has dried.


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## Trashman (Jun 22, 2009)

Any word from Bill? I've not yet received the charger and power supply. It sure looked, though, in one of his posts, as if it was already sent. I'm guessing that wasn't the case.


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## js (Jun 23, 2009)

Trashman,

No word lately. He hasn't responded to my recent communications, in any case.

tanasit,

Your order did indeed go out yesterday via USPS priority mail ,as promised. I threw in an extra 62138 lamp from my own stock, as your order only had one in it, which is just not enough. It's easy to instaflash one of these if you forget and turn on hot off a charge.


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## JSO123 (Jun 23, 2009)

Hi JS

Just wondering....:thinking:
Have you ever put a regulator in a USL? Is it worth the trouble / expense ?

Scott


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## js (Jun 23, 2009)

SO123,

I never have. It could be done, but I would only put a PWM regulator in if I were to do it. One of Willie Hunt's, probably. He makes a seriously powerful LVR that handles like 25 amps, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, there really isn't any need, though, because a USL has such a short runtime, and if I somehow made it longer there would be serious heat issues to contend with. The USL is freaking bright at 13 volts, and it's freaking bright at 10 volts, so I've never bothered with a regulator.

I make a regulated TigerLight, however . . . and of course, my M6-R packs were/are regulated.


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## Codeman (Jun 23, 2009)

js said:


> SO123,
> 
> ... if I somehow made it longer there would be serious heat issues to contend with...



Yeah, but then we could cook ham to go with our eggs! :nana:


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## JSO123 (Jun 24, 2009)

Works for me... 

So far my brightest flashlight is a AA Mini [email protected] hotwire at about 100 lumens or so, so the USL, when it arrives, will be very interesting!

I'll focus on a slightly more a practical flashlight - next time.

Thanks


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## tanasit (Jun 24, 2009)

My USL #66 landed today, so I dress her up:












Many thanks for ALL who make this happened....:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## mst3k (Jun 26, 2009)

Holy Cow!!! Amazing Tanasit. Worth the wait, evidently! 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::twothumbs


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## js (Jun 27, 2009)

I'll be building at least three USL's this weekend, and mailing them off on Monday. Been very busy this week at work--CESR TA conference--but I'm all set to get a lot done today and tomorrow. I'll keep y'all informed.


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## paulr (Jun 29, 2009)

I haven't heard anything from Bill about Triton/PS refund. Maybe someday.


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## js (Jun 29, 2009)

OK. Due to one of the bodies being all gunked up with old RTV, which I didn't notice until it was late, I only finished two USL's. One pewter, one black. I will mail them out today if I can, or tomorrow at the latest.


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## js (Jul 1, 2009)

So, as promised, I sent out the USL orders yesterday: ths11 and JSO123 -- via USPS priority mail. I gave both of them a top-off charge, so they are ready to go. Just be sure not to touch the lamps with your bare fingers (oil = bad for glass), and be sure not to stress them too much when trying to get them centered under the reflector hole so you can turn the head down without touching the lamp envelope.


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## JSO123 (Jul 1, 2009)

YIPPEE!!!!  I'll be sitting next to the mailbox.


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## Bright Scouter (Jul 1, 2009)

Glad to here people are getting the USLs!

Any word on how testing of the eneloops is going?


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## js (Jul 1, 2009)

Bright Scouter said:


> Glad to here people are getting the USLs!
> 
> Any word on how testing of the eneloops is going?



No testing yet. Still haven't made up the pack.


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## JSO123 (Jul 6, 2009)

Hi JS

Got the light last Thursday. It really is amazing. Now I can jacklight all the deer in my neighborhood at the same time. I just hope the charger follows soon. Thanks again.

Scott


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## js (Jul 9, 2009)

Hey guys,

Sorry I haven't posted here in a while. I had to work over the 4th, and ended up working like 20 hours Tue-Wed, and I had to deal with phone troubles (which you can read about in ElectronGuru's VoIP thread, if you really want, LOL!).

So . . . I haven't done anything on the USL project, but I will work on it tonight, tomorrow night, and over the weekend, and will definitely mail out more orders on Monday.


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## js (Jul 14, 2009)

So, after the WEEK from hell, I had the weekend from hell. Everyone who could normally help me with surveying here at work is either on vacation or on an off-hours shifts. I'm getting hammered. It won't last, though, as one way or another, this down-period will end and the machine will turn back on, whether or not everything is finished.

I meant to finish up one or two USL's last night after work, but I made the mistake of lying down for a moment and, well, never came back fully to the world of the awake.

I only need a couple hours to be able to get another order or two ready to mail out. Barring more disasters and being called into work and the like, I will put some time in tonight.

Also, I got some JB Weld for attaching the guards to the bodies (this is what Bill used, and it works well). If there is anyone who _must_ have a guarded USL, please let me know via post or PM ASAP, because otherwise, I will just get stuff out the door, even if the color or guard preference isn't a match.

I'm also thinking I will put together the eneloop pack this week, and start it on its forming charge this weekend or sooner. However, if things get crazy at work (or rather, if things stay crazy), that may get pushed back.


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## Sakugenken (Jul 14, 2009)

I really appreciate all of your efforts but please don't push yourself too hard. If you put too much pressure on yourself, you too might give up. I am a patient man, sometime is better than never.


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## js (Jul 14, 2009)

Sakugenken said:


> I really appreciate all of your efforts but please don't push yourself too hard. If you put too much pressure on yourself, you too might give up. I am a patient man, sometime is better than never.



No danger of me pushing myself too hard! I won't. As I said before, this is not a sprint. I just try to do a little something each day, although recently that's gotten blown out of the water. LOL!. But, no matter what, there is absolutely no danger of me ever giving up! I *will* see this through! I promise. I'm not too far from done, actually.

And, on that note, I don't have a confirmed shipping address for you, Sakugenken! Did I miss a PM or email? I don't think I did. I just looked through all my PM's and never got one from you--or if I did I no longer have it. In any case, please PM me with your current mailing address so I can get your order out.

OK. So I'm headed upstairs right now to work on USL's.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 14, 2009)

Jim, I was the lucky guy who purchased Trashman's USL. I feel privileged, very fortunate, and have through the years followed the USL development and emphasized with the folks who waited so long for their USL's. 

If you do not mind my sort of off topic question, what would be a nice LOLA for the USL that would have a nice beam, and good color like the 62138 HLX? Thanks,

Bill


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## KevinL (Jul 15, 2009)

I'm watching this thread with a mixture of both horror and amazement, horror that the project has dragged on this far, but utmost admiration for the patience and determination of the CPF folk (in particular js) to see it through. 

I was one of the lucky ones... got my USL early in the game and sold it after it popped too many bulbs. It was a really long time ago when I was trying to cook eggs with it. 

I'd like to offer a bit of encouragement - hang in there and you will get your lights in the end


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## Starlight (Jul 15, 2009)

The LOLA for the 62138 is the 64610. 50W versus 100W and the same operating voltage. It is very white also.


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## js (Jul 15, 2009)

I don't have my notes with me, but I'm sure Starlight is correct. IIRC, there is also a 20W or 25W LOLA option. If you're interested, I'll take a look.

OK, so I finished a Pewter non-guarded USL last night, and left it to dry. I will try to leave work early to get it in the mail before the post office closes. I think it's going to Carpe Diem, but I'll double check that in a minute. If I'm wrong, I'll post a correction. Otherwise, Carpe, expect your order in three days or so.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 15, 2009)

Jim, yes I am interested in more info on the LOLA bulbs.

Bill


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 17, 2009)

I have obviously missed some posts through the years. I got my USL from Trashman and installed the lamp, turned it on and adjusted the focus. I am running out of focus, unscrewing the head, and I think the beam can be narrowed down some more if I cut down the legs on the bulb. Has this been done by USL owners? Beneficial? 

Bill

I cut them back a hair and it helped. What would be a ideal length for wires for best collimation? One further bit of info. I am using the smooth reflector and have an LOP also.

Bill


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## Codeman (Jul 18, 2009)

Bill, unless Ginseng did some experimenting during the initial development, I think you're covering new ground.

With the stock, 62138 bulb, though, there will only be so much you can do to tightened the spot. It's a function of the size of the reflector in relation to the size of the bulb's filament. Getting the bulb as perfectly centered as possible has the biggest impact with the stock head. The LOP will smooth the edges of the hotspot, but the smooth reflector should give a slightly smaller, though less well-formed, hotspot. If I remember correctly, though, there isn't much real world difference between the SMO and LOP reflectors.

It's also possible that the can is not optimally positioned. There should be 1-3 set screws holding it in place. Simply loosened them a bit and try moving the can just a tad. Be sure to clean the bulb with alcohol (90% or better) if you touch it.

The bottom line, though, is that the USL is really more about flood than spot.

The best way to tighten it up is with one of FiveMega's 3" heads. They make a significant difference.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 18, 2009)

Thanks Ray. I will try out the LOP next. It looks like cutting down the legs won't hurt as their is plenty of room to screw the head down to compensate, as long as I leave some room for air to move between the glass bulb and metal below it. 

Bill


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 19, 2009)

Well, I did my first charge, stopping at 16.13 volts measured with my DMM, and there is no way that I will turn the USL on. Lux's destructive tests show the 16138 flashing at 15 volts applied, so I should not turn this on till voltage drops to around 14.70 or so, and that may take 24 hours or more resting. Is this what others are finding?

Bill


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 20, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Well, I did my first charge, stopping at 16.13 volts measured with my DMM, and there is no way that I will turn the USL on. Lux's destructive tests show the 16138 flashing at 15 volts applied, so I should not turn this on till voltage drops to around 14.70 or so, and that may take 24 hours or more resting. Is this what others are finding?
> Bill



Will, I let the battery pack rest overnite and turned the light on with the voltage measurement at 15.24 and it did not flash. Don't know why. 

Is there anyone out there? No interest in the USL, and you do not want to post? To me the USL is an exciting light, a CPF landmark light. Where are you folks that have recently received your lights? Please share what you are experiencing.

Bill


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## Codeman (Jul 21, 2009)

I routinely saw 16-17V on mine and the only times I have ever flashed a bulb were when I forgot to let the USL rest for 30 minutes after a charge. I did that twice.

Based on our testing, as long as you let the pack rest for 30 minutes, you should be fine.

I'm not familiar with Lux's tests, but it is likely that his conditions were not the same as those of the USL.


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## JSO123 (Jul 21, 2009)

I'll let you know as soon as my battery charger comes in the mail. I'm told they are on back order; until then, me and my new USL are in the dark.


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## Starlight (Jul 21, 2009)

16-17 volts at the battery will never yield that much voltage at the bulb. Remember, your light has resistive losses between the battery and the bulb. Lux's test were done by measuring the ACTUAL voltage at the bulb, not the source voltage. You can't be sure what Battery voltage will cause a bulb to flash without knowing what the drop is going to the bulb. Different USL's will have different losses, so you can't judge one by another one.

In addition, different battery packs will have different voltage drops when you put an 8 amp load on them. Once again battery pack voltage with no load is NOT what the bulb sees.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks Starlight, I know what you are saying. I just did not apply that to my thinking. I did not look closely at Lux's protocol for testing. Would be interesting to see some numbers for battery pack voltage and delivered voltage to bulb using the HLX 62138 in the different USL's. Doing some more searching it looks like the bulb is seeing about 13.7 volts or so at turn on, but that was with the CBP cells, I think.

Bill


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## mst3k (Jul 21, 2009)

As far as replacement lamps for my USL. 

Is this what I should order, or is there somewhere else I should look?

http://www.bulbconnection.com/ViewSIMItem/bcrw/simid/2000/item.html


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## Starlight (Jul 21, 2009)

That is exactly the right bulb. If you wanted more runtime without quite as much WOW factor, you can use an Osram 64610 instead. 50W versus 100W. Still very bright, but twice the runtime.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 21, 2009)

Looking at the 62138 beam, and using the LOP, which is so lightly orange peeled that I thought at first was smooth, I can see the need for the MOP, which, I think, will present the center beam better. Thought I had one, but it was one of Otok's cammed MOP reflectors. I need to look for one or maybe trade my LOP or SMO for one. 

Bill


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 22, 2009)

Bill, Starlight nailed the question you had. My testing setup intentionally only has about 18 mΩ of resistance. 

To give a comparison, a stock Mag has about 325 mΩ. AW's multilevel driver has about 220 mΩ once all parts are taken into account.

I don't know what the resistance of the USL including batteries is but with the 62138 running 9.5A you can figure your voltage drop by multiplying current x resistance. 

So let's say you had a total resistance of 200 mΩ m in your USL...that would give you a voltage drop of 1.9V (9.5A x 0.2Ω) below what you measured with the battery pack. Your 15.2V would be reduced to 13.3V delivered to the bulb after resistance losses in my theoretical example.

BulbConnection.com has always been the best place to buy Osram & Philips 5761 bulbs. Not true with Welch Allyn bulbs--Litho123 is the man for those.

MOP is the minimum texture IMHO for all the 75+W bulbs. Remember these are overhead projector bulbs that are normally diffused and focussed with a system of mirrors and lenses, so they are ugly filaments. The 64625 is a nicer looking bulb, but has less overdrive tolerance.

Nice to see what looked like another disasterous project having a happy resolution.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks Lux. So the real culpret in the USL system is the switch, more so that the internal resistance of the battery pack? Maybe Jim will respond re the resistance of the switch.

Yes, the beam with the LOP is not terribly pretty but it is fairly balanced and not ugly artifacty. Just has that weird weak center beam. Know where I could find an MOP reflector with same specs as USL? Otok, made the originals, if I remember correctly. I had two made by him years ago, a SMO, no cam, and a MOP, cammed. My USL came with an LOP and a SMO. 

Bill


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 22, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Thanks Lux. So the real culpret in the USL system is the switch, more so that the internal resistance of the battery pack? Maybe Jim will respond re the resistance of the switch.
> 
> Bill



I'm just not sure, never having seen one. Don't know how much resistance is in springs, bulb holder/switch/contacts, battery contacts. It may be a pretty low resistance setup, but I would be surprised if they got it lower than 150 mΩ

You can measure the resistance of the setup.


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## js (Jul 22, 2009)

The total resistance in the USL is very low. Almost all the joints are directly soldered, and the switch is a high current, low resistance rocker switch--approximately 3 mOhms at 10 amps, if I remember correctly. I went to a LOT of trouble to find that switch, actually. Because, yes, the stock mag switch is HORRIBLE when it comes to resistance. You can put 5 or more amps through it, but it will drop a not insignificant voltage across its terminals if you do.

The USL battery packs are welded packs, but the nickel strips are 1/4" wide, (instead of 1/8" wide as is typical), and are 10 mils think (instead of 5 mils, as is typical), and are double welded at each joint (i.e. four contact welds at each joint). I specifcally tested the welded packs against my end to end soldered packs and they were comparable. That was the criteria for going to a welded pack at all, actually.

The connection between the bulb - and pack is a direct solder connection, and the bulb + goes through the switch to the pack, all of which are direct solder connections. No springs, no contact resistances.

The bulb holder itself, of course, has the usual contact resistances and is spring loaded. No getting around that!

I don't know what the total circuit resistance would test out to be. I'd be happy to send Lux Luthor a USL if he wants to test it. Just let me know, Lux.

In any case, all of that is really moot (i.e. interesting, but academic). If you're new to all of this, the most important thing to realize is that OPEN CIRCUIT VOLTAGE will NEVER be delivered to any kind of serious load. Never. Even if there were zero resistance in the circuit, except for the battery pack and the load.

The reason is that the batteries themselves have something known as INTERNAL RESISTANCE. The cells in the USL are down somewhere below 10 mOhm, but that adds up over 11 cells. Further, right after charging is an unusual, and very temporary situation. Even if the cells all had zero IR, the voltage would drop very, very rapidly from this open circuit voltage.

The thing that matters is *THE VOLTAGE UNDER LOAD*. That is, the VOLTAGE ACROSS THE LAMP TERMINALS. And not instantaneous voltage at start, but voltage that lasts for more than a mili-second.

The most generally meaningful performance measure of any light is obtained by graphing the voltage delivered to the _bulb_ vs. time (for a specific bulb). With the 62138's, the USL's all start at around 13+ volts (like 13.8 or somewhat less) and fall to about 10 volts, over about a 12 minute runtime. The cells are being asked to deliver a LOT of current, but still manage to hold 1.1 volts/cell or higher for much of the run. There's a steeper fall off at the beginning, from starting voltage to 12.5 or so, and then at the end, from 11 or so, to 10, and the middle section is still falling off, too, of course, but not nearly as fast.

There was a graph around somewhere, and I can look back at my notes at some point if people really want hard numbers.

Anyway . . . the bottom line is that the batteries and battery pack and total circuit resistance in the USL are all well matched to drive the 62138. However, if you grab your USL hot off the charger and turn it on, there is a chance of insta-flashing your bulb. Just the way it has to be for a direct drive light with good CCT over most of the run. So let your USL cool for 5 or 10 minutes before turning it on, but other than that, you should get a reasonable number of hours out of your 62138. About 15 hours, in my experience, although that's just a ball park number. With 12 minute runs, and only occasional use, it's hard to really keep track unless you are very deliberate about it.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks Jim, good review for me, and nice concise explanation of your work to keep resistance down in the USL.

Bill


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## js (Jul 23, 2009)

So, I'm looking through old USL threads, trying to find a post I made on lamp choices, and I ran across this post. Thought it might be interesting, given our recent discussion here:



js said:


> I have some discharge curve data:
> 
> This is for cycle #2 of welded pack #2. Plus, before the first 8 or 9 amp discharge against the 62138, I did the usual .1C forming charge for 16 hours, 1C discharge, then 1C charge. Then the first "cycle"--discharge against the 100 watt lamp, charge, then this second cycle. OK. Just so we're clear--TMI, no doubt.
> 
> ...


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## js (Jul 23, 2009)

And here is my post on lamp choices! Found it!



js said:


> Oh, I almost forgot!
> 
> There are a number of good, lower-powered Osram lamps that will drop right into the USL socket. I'll check out my notebooks and post them here tonight, but, IIRC, there is a 25 watt and a 50 watter that are both nicely driven by 11 NiMH cells.
> 
> ...



And, for good measure, here is my first post on the welded packs and some pics:



js said:


> Got the packs today and did a charge on one and a discharge test. I really should have given it a longer over-charge after completion of fast charge, but I was anxious to see what the performance would be.
> 
> The answer?
> 
> ...



From this USL thread


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## js (Jul 23, 2009)

Oh, and please note that my comments on the IRC lamps and their efficiency are for use at 12V, where they are very much under-driven. Drive them harder and they are quite a bit more efficient. The IRC coating can improve either lifetime or efficiency, significantly. Check out this graph:






But they are still very fun to use in the USL. Just don't expect the highest output per watt!


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## Carpe Diem (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi JS...

MY USL package arrived safely today!

Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you! :bow:

As a token gesture on my part, I would like to reimburse you for your shipping costs. Please send your PP address to me, kind sir.


BILL: If I could get my Triton Charger from you, I`d greatly appreciate it. If you are willing to do so, please send a PM to me and I`ll send my shipping address to you.


Thanks again, one and all!


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## Carpe Diem (Jul 27, 2009)

Carpe Diem said:


> BILL: If I could get my Triton Charger from you, I`d greatly appreciate it. If you are willing to do so, please send a PM to me and I`ll send my shipping address to you.


 
I haven`t heard from Bill. 

Could someone please let me know what I should now buy (again) for a charger and a power supply unit for my USL? Also, what would be a good online/Paypal source?

Thanks, guys, for whatever help you can give to me on this.


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## milkyspit (Jul 27, 2009)

Carpe Diem said:


> I haven`t heard from Bill.
> 
> Could someone please let me know what I should now buy (again) for a charger and a power supply unit for my USL? Also, what would be a good online/Paypal source?
> 
> Thanks, guys, for whatever help you can give to me on this.




Carpe, I like the Bantam BC6 charger because it incorporates its own AC power supply... makes it markedly more user-friendly and takes up less space, not to mention saving some money by virtue of not needing a separate power supply. I bought my BC6 *over here* at rcaccessory.com.


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## Carpe Diem (Jul 27, 2009)

Hi Scott....

Thanks for your help!


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## js (Jul 29, 2009)

OK. I've returned to the world of the living, although work is still crazy. I just _may_, just _possibly_ be able to have one or even *gasp* two days off this weekend. Imagine that!

So, I should be able to do one or more USL's for Monday. I can't guarantee it, but I'm going to try to do three of them. Or at least two. We shall see. But I think it's fairly likely, at least!

Sorry for the long delay(s), everyone!


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## js (Aug 4, 2009)

I'll be mailing out one order today, --assuming nothing stops me from leaving work early, that is-- and I'll be making more than one USL a week from now on. Probably something like one USL every other day, although I still need to prep some guarded bodies, and make up the eneloop pack, so those tasks may take up a USL building session or two.

I'll post here again tonight with an update.


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## js (Aug 4, 2009)

Sakugenken,

I sent your order out today via USPS air mail.


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## Sakugenken (Aug 5, 2009)

js said:


> Sakugenken,
> 
> I sent your order out today via USPS air mail.



Thanks! I'll let you know when it arrives.


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## bwaites (Aug 11, 2009)

I have finally been able to start to catch up, summer came with some serious challenges for me and mine.

I have a bunch of power supplies in boxes and ready to ship. I have heard from a few by email, and I will ship those ASAP. 

My dealer evidently cannot get the chargers, as he has not sent me a bill and I haven't been able to contact him.

SO, I will send a USPS money order with each power supply, I can do this over the next 4-8 weeks, beginning the end of next week. The power supplies are ready to ship. 

IF there is someone who CANNOT order their own charger, please email me at bwaites(at)genext.net. 

I have a few of the base chargers left, and will be shipping those to anyone who has requested those. 

Anyone who has already bought a power supply/charger, please email me at the above address and I will send you a refund.

I see that I have some PM's, but my software is blocking them as popups and I am getting a "danger" message when I try to do so. If I can figure out what is actually causing that, I will respond shortly to those messages.

Bill


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## bwaites (Aug 11, 2009)

I figured out how to respond to the PM's.

I have responded to all PM's and emails I have received so far.

Bill


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## js (Aug 13, 2009)

My plan(s) for USL work got run off the rails, sadly. Had to work the evening shifts over the weekend, and my wife is still on the graveyard schedule I was on, so she was sleeping in the late morning when I could have worked on USL stuff. But, once again, it looks like I will have a full two days off this weekend and will build at least one USL for sure, and I plan on doing more. We actually are almost done. I have to do wantthatlight's USL, DaveNagy's, and then do bobbo's two other USL's (he got one out of three, and then got bumped to the bottom of the list). And, of course, I need to build the eneloop pack and send Codeman's light to him.

There are others who are still owed USL's, but they are (so far anyway) incommunicado. I'll see if I get replies back from snail-mail letters.


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## JSO123 (Aug 13, 2009)

*Re: charging USL battery pack question*

I just picked up a charger (Triton-EQ) so I can again play with my new USL but found that it isn't exactly "plug and play".

I am actually reading the charger directions for a change and have a question. I know the answer is probably burried somewher in the record 866 miles of USL thread, but I'm too lazy to go looking. 

While I did find these instructions*, I am still a bit befuddled... 

What is a C2 charge?

Do I ever need to discharge the battery pack?

Thanks




*I suggest a C/2 charge. For the Titanium 1800 cells, that means 0.9 amps charge rate. For the Triton, make sure the cell type is NiMH, set the rate to .9 and have no time out, but set the max charge delivered to 2100 mAh, and set the delta V sensitivity to 3 or 4 mV/cell. Also, feel free to set the top off charge rate to 200 mA.


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## js (Aug 13, 2009)

*Re: charging USL battery pack question*

C stands for Capacity. So Titanium 1800 mAh cells have a "C" of 1800 mAh, or 1.8 AH. Divide that by 2 and you get .9.

So, set your charger for NiMH battery type, and the charge rate for 0.9 amps = 900 mA.

That is the main thing. I don't know what a "Triton-EQ" is, though, so I won't say more yet.

And no, you don't ever NEED to discharge the battery pack, and in fact, if you totally discharge it to below 9 volts, you run the risk of permanently damaging it. Some chargers have a discharge feature with a low voltage cutoff and so you can set a safe level and freely discharge the pack, and then charge it back up again. But, in most cases, just stick to charging and just USE the light, and you'll be fine.

Does any of this make sense?


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## JSO123 (Aug 13, 2009)

That covers it. Thanks for the education!


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## js (Aug 17, 2009)

OK. So I built two more USL's last night and will pack them up to ship out when I get home in a few minutes. One will go to wantthatlight, and the other to DaveNagy.


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## js (Aug 17, 2009)

wantthatlight and DaveNagy's orders did indeed go out today via USPS priority mail.


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## js (Aug 20, 2009)

OK! Good news!

I end-to-end soldered up the AA eneloop cells tonight, wrapped the stacks in kapton tape for strength, and have the first two glue beads laid and drying. i.e. there are four stacks which I first glue together into two sets of two, and then next I glue the two sets of two together. That will happen tomorrow. And then I will solder the 25 amp braid jumpers and start the pack on its initial forming charge. Maybe unnecessary for eneloop cells, but I still like to do it, as it doesn't hurt and probably helps, and ensures that all cells in the pack are a the same state of charge.

Anyway, that means that by Sunday I will be doing the first discharges against the 62138 100W lamp, and we'll see how it goes.

Exciting!


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## wantthatlight (Aug 21, 2009)

Got my light thursday, thank you Jim


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## Codeman (Aug 21, 2009)

js said:


> ...
> 
> Anyway, that means that by Sunday I will be doing the first discharges against the 62138 100W lamp, and we'll see how it goes.
> 
> Exciting!



Fingers crossed!


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## js (Aug 22, 2009)

So, we're still on schedule. It's all glued together and I'm going to be soldering the pack connections sometime soon and starting the pack on its forming charge.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 22, 2009)

:thumbsup:

Bill


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## js (Aug 22, 2009)

OK! She's getting her forming charge! Ain't she pretty?







Her build is based on all of my previous pack making experience and is the pinnacle of my work, along with the M6-R and Regulated TL packs. I end-to-end soldered each cell together, allowing for the _entire top plus contact_ to conduct and mate with the negative end. The cells are end-to-end soldered on an angle bracket jig to ensure they are straight, but I roll each stack on the table after wards to test for straightness. Then, each stack is wrapped in 2 mil thick Kapton tape for strength and electrical insulation. In the case of cells where the covering is shrink wrap, I remove it first before end to end soldering and the kapton tape IS the only insulating wrap. But the eneloops, and indeed most AA cells, have glued on, very thin, wrap that I just leave on and tape over. The stacks are then glued together with RTV silicon general purpose glue. Then I make the electrical connections with tinned copper braid. The result is the lowest resistance pack possible. It's not the most rugged pack, as it's a lot easier to break a solder joint than a welded nickel ribbon, but even so, when all glued together like this, it's still fairly strong. I made the regulated TL that Michael Teig takes around to demonstrations with him (as well as the Tiger85 he also takes), and those two lights tend to be handled a bit roughly in some of those demonstrations, and so far, so good. Although Michael did at one time forcibly rip the 8 cell eneloop pack out of the body of the TL-R, which was *cough* BAD, as it's leads are directly soldered into the switch core, which contains one of Willie Hunt's LVR3K PWM regulators. So, he had to send it back to me for repairs at that point. LOL! Although, now that I think of it, that first TL-R had the AmondoTech Titanium 2400 AA cells. Now those were good cells indeed! Not as good as the eneloops, though.

So, it started the forming charge at 7PM, so in 16 hours it will be 11AM Sunday, at which point I'll do a discharge, then a C/2 charge, then the first discharge against the 62138 using my testing jig. LOL! It's not very fancy. The 62138 and ceramic socket stick out an almost closed window, with the lead wires snaking under into the room where Deans Ultra connectors mate, and connect to the pack, and also allow me to monitor voltage during the discharges.

More to come.


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## js (Aug 22, 2009)

Oh, and BTW, for those of you with Tritons, for NiMH packs you can turn the Triton into a dumb charger (no peak detect) by setting it up to charge _NiCd_ packs, set the peak delay to 60 minutes, and set the delta V to 20 mV/cell. Then set the charge rate to whatever the capacity of the cells is divided by 10. So, in this case, .2 amps = 200 mA. Then charge for 16 hours. Since the circuitry will never see a 20mV/cell drop in a NiMH cell, it will just continue to charge away, and you get a nice readout of the total mAh delivered. Keep in mind that this will be 10 percent less than the rate * hours because the Triton stops current flow to examine resting voltage about 10 percent of the time.


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## Codeman (Aug 22, 2009)

Here's to hoping that the pack is just as golden as its color!


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## js (Aug 22, 2009)

Yeah, so, Ray, if the initial discharges look good, I'll build this into your light and send it back to you pronto so you can do further testing.

Assuming you _can_ do further testing. Can you? All we'll need is simple charge, burn, charge, burn, etc. and keeping track of the runtime, and at some point a test of the capacity at C/2 discharge. Are you up for the field testing or shall I do it?


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 22, 2009)

js said:


> Yeah, so, Ray, if the initial discharges look good, I'll build this into your light and send it back to you pronto so you can do further testing.
> 
> Assuming you _can_ do further testing. Can you? All we'll need is simple charge, burn, charge, burn, etc. and keeping track of the runtime, and at some point a test of the capacity at C/2 discharge. Are you up for the field testing or shall I do it?



Whoops.

Bill


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## Codeman (Aug 23, 2009)

js said:


> Yeah, so, Ray, if the initial discharges look good, I'll build this into your light and send it back to you pronto so you can do further testing.
> 
> Assuming you _can_ do further testing. Can you? All we'll need is simple charge, burn, charge, burn, etc. and keeping track of the runtime, and at some point a test of the capacity at C/2 discharge. Are you up for the field testing or shall I do it?



Sure! Just let me know what rate you want me to charge at.


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## js (Aug 23, 2009)

OK. So the question before us has been: "Do the Sanyo eneloop cells have the stones, the cajones, the intestinal fortitude, the oomph necessary to drive a lamp like the 100W Osram 62138"?

I believe the answer is *YES!*

It's still to early to say for sure, and another discharge tonight, and field testing by Codeman will be necessary before I make another USL 2.0 light with eneloop cells, but from what I know about batteries and discharge curves, I'll be surprised if these don't work out. Damn these are good cells.

So, here is the very first discharge curve:

0:00+ min. 12.3 volts
0:15 11.9
0:30 11.75
1:00 11.58
1:30 11.49
2:00 11.45
2:30 11.44
3:00 11.44
3:30 11.44
4:00 11.43
4:30 11.41
5:00 11.39
5:30 11.37 (cells at approx. 110F)
6:00 11.34
6:30 11.31
7:00 11.28 (cells at approx. 130F)
7:30 11.24
8:00 11.20
8:30 11.15
9:00 11.09
9:30 11.03
10:00 10.95
10:30 10.86
11:00 10.74 (cells at approx. 150F)
11:30 10.60
12:00 10.41 (cells at approx. 165F = too hot to hold for more than three seconds or so)

At this point I terminated the discharge, but I could have pushed it out to 12:30 or possibly even 13:00, but I wanted to be conservative, as these cells were never meant to deliver 8 or 9 amps. There were no indications of problems, however. No venting sounds, no liquid, no distortions of any kind.

Further, consider that most people don't run their USL's constant on like this--or really shouldn't, anyway. Most people do thirty second to three minute burns with some off time between burns.

Anyway, them there's the results sew fur.


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## js (Aug 23, 2009)

Oh, and those voltages are the voltage _delivered to the lamp socket leads_, and include any losses across the switch.


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## Codeman (Aug 23, 2009)

Looks like 5-6 minute runs will be okay, but full runs are really cooking the cells! That's approaching the temps I was setting with the prototype's head on full runs.

I guess we can now add Eneloops to the list of things that the USL can cook!

The slow and reasonably steady voltage drop is encouraging to see. I know the Eneloops excel at that under more normal loads, but to see them stand up to it under the USL's load is impressive. Let's hope they can continue to withstand it.


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## milkyspit (Aug 23, 2009)

js said:


> OK. So the question before us has been: "Do the Sanyo eneloop cells have the stones, the cajones, the intestinal fortitude, the oomph necessary to drive a lamp like the 100W Osram 62138"?
> 
> I believe the answer is *YES!/b]
> 
> ...


*


Jim, I took the liberty of plotting both voltage and temps to give a better visual sense of the data. The software tried to apply a smooth curve between the points, and given the sparseness of temperature data it introduced a couple jumps that I suspect may not have occurred in reality. Still, IMHO it's handy to see the data in this manner to get a deeper sense of cell performance. I assumed a starting temp of 70 degrees F for the cells...




*


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## js (Aug 23, 2009)

Wow milkyspit! Thanks for doing that!

Keep in mind that these temps are _very_ approximate and were determined only by hand feel. Also keep in mind that the Titanium 1800 packs got just as hot by the end of the run as the eneloop pack, going by my very approximate hand-as-temp-probe. I think what I will do is bring home a DVM from work tomorrow and then use my fluke to monitor the temperature of the pack for real. External temp, anyway. That will be interesting.

OK. On to the 2nd discharge. Now, there are two things to note. Because I was impatient, I didn't set the Triton to do a top-off charge for cell equalization, so it's possible that this pack wasn't maybe fully charged, but I would doubt it. The second thing to note is that this pack was starting from 80F (I would guess---in any case, about 10F hotter than previously). So here are the numbers

0:00+ min. 12.7 volts
0:15 12.16
0:30 11.98
0:45 11.87
1:00 11.78
1:30 11.67
2:00 11.62
2:30 11.61
3:00 11.60
3:30 11.59
4:00 11.58
4:30 11.56
5:00 11.53
5:30 11.51
6:00 11.47
6:30 11.44
7:00 11.39
7:30 11.35
8:00 11.30
8:30 11.23
9:00 11.16
9:30 11.08
10:00 10.99
10:30 10.87
11:00 10.73
11:30 10.56
12:00 10.32

As you can see, the ending voltage is ever so slightly lower, either because the hotter starting pack was able to deliver more current early on, as evidenced by the higher voltages throughout most of the run, or because it didn't start out quite as full as it did on the previous run.

So, it is cooling now, and I will give it a long slow .2 amp 12-16 hour charge again, and measure C/2 capacity to see if it's taken a hit. For the record, the previous result (at 1.0 amp to 11 volts ending) was exactly 2000 mAh.

Then I will do a C/2 fast charge and do one more burn with the double DVM's to measure both voltage and temperature so we have a scientific temperature plot instead of my (almost literal) "rule of thumb" guessing at the temp.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 23, 2009)

Can you post the Titanium 1800 discharge, for comparison? Most of us will not run such a tough test with our USL's, and the down the road voltage will be what counts, like two weeks or so when our Titanium packs are dropping, dropping voltage just sitting there. This is when Eneloop packs should shine, holding up their voltage, and still delivering good output. Of course, your intensive testing is not over, and we may see some issues with the Eneloop's, issues that might not occur with shorts runs.

Bill


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## js (Aug 24, 2009)

It was actually posted up above somewhere, but here it is for convenience:



> This is for cycle #2 of welded pack #2. Plus, before the first 8 or 9 amp discharge against the 62138, I did the usual .1C forming charge for 16 hours, 1C discharge, then 1C charge. Then the first "cycle"--discharge against the 100 watt lamp, charge, then this second cycle. OK. Just so we're clear--TMI, no doubt.
> 
> Min___Voltage
> 0______13.9
> ...



As you can see, the Titanium's are a full volt higher, but run for 10 minutes instead of 12 or 13. They're good cells made with decent quality, but they are no longer available. And of course, they don't have the eneloop's low self discharge characteristic.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 24, 2009)

Interesting, the Titanium pack started out a volt higher and maintained that most of the way, with a steep drop off between 9 and 10 minutes. Eneloops starting at lower voltage mostly show a nice even drop off throughout run. Be interesting to see the Eneloop run starting out at 13+ volts, or is the Eneloop pack can not start out that high?

Bill


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## js (Aug 24, 2009)

The eneloop pack can't start out that high. My 0:00+ reading is around a second or two after I throw the ON switch and start the run. Before throwin the switch the eneloop pack and the titanium pack could both be just as high as you like--i.e. 15 volts or so--but that open circuit voltage should IN NO WAY ever be thought of as the real starting voltage, where light is actually produced. After a second or so, the filament has pretty much come up to operating temperature and light is pouring out, so you SEE the difference in starting light from the titanium pack vs. the eneloop pack, so it's real, whereas open circuit voltage isn't, nor the voltage 1 milisecond after startup.

There's no question that the eneloop pack doesn't have the sheer musculature of the Titanium 1800's, and their longer runtime is due to their lower delivered voltage causing a lower current draw from the 62138. Or it's mostly due to that. Their capacity advantage at C/2 or C, of 200 mAh or so, is totally swamped by their higher internal resistance and lower charge mobility. Even so, they have other characteristics to recommend them. They are of the highest quality and are unlikely to spontaneously leak like the high-current RC cells are prone to do. And they are low self-discharge, and so you don't have to worry about charging your USL every month or two. It can just sit there for a year and be happy as a clam. That's a very nice feature.

Still . . . the Titanium 1800's are probably the better choice for someone who is going to use his USL a lot and do long burns.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 24, 2009)

Given the lower starting voltage of the Eneloop 11 cell pack, would 12 cells work? Just something to think about.

Bill


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## js (Aug 24, 2009)

12 cells might work in terms of matching cells to lamp, but a 12 cell pack certainly _won't_ work in the USL body, as the foremost cells in the pack are right beneath the rocker switch, which is sitting where the fourth cell of the forward most section would be. Hence, 4 rear cells, 4 middle cells, and 3 forward cells = 11 cells.

This was the key design feature which I dreamed up one day while slightly high on vicodin (back injury). It hit me that one of those high current rocker switches would probably not extend down far enough to take up more than one AA cell's worth of height, and so I could have n 11 AA cell pack in a *2D* Mag body, and since the CBP1650 AA cells had just come out and were outstanding high current performers, I knew _someone_ had to make this light. After a bit of thought, I gave the idea to Bill, who was working on his "Mule" light at the time, and had a bunch of people who wanted to buy one.

The 2D light size is also the reason for the 62138 axial filament lamp (instead of transverse). It doesn't suffer too much by being in a normal mag head with a 2" reflector.

Anyway, 12 eneloops would probably drive the 62138 nicely, but it's out of the question here. Sorry!


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 24, 2009)

I am not sorry at all, especially with this good info from you. Yes, better to have the neat 2D format than the standard every day hot wire 3D size. Besides, the USL with Eneloops will still be putting out plenty of light, with a fairly nice flat runtime.

Bill


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## js (Aug 24, 2009)

Indeed. The USL is still plenty bright at 11.5 volts. Heck it's still bright at 10.5.

OK. So, I did the C/5 discharge to check capacity and I got 2016 mAh, so slightly more than the first time I did it. So, capacity hasn't taken a hit! That's good.

Next I charged at C/2, let cool, and did a discharge and this time I had two DMM's, one for voltage and one for temperature. Here are the results

0:00+ min 12.75 volts
0:15 min 12.18 volts (86.7F)
0:30 12.01
0:45 11.88 (89.5)
1:00 11.79 (90.8)
1:30 11.67 (94.7)
2:00 11.61 (98.6)
2:30 11.59 (102.1)
3:00 11.58 (105.6)
3:30 11.57 (109.0)
4:00 11.56 (110.4)
4:30 11.54 (115.6)
5:00 11.52 (119.2)
5:30 11.49 (122.8)
6:00 11.46 (125.5)
6:30 11.42 (128.5)
7:00 11.38
7:30 11.34
8:00 11.28 (137.2)
8:30 11.23 (141.2)
9:00 11.16
9:30 11.08 (147.5)
10:00 10.99 (149.7)
10:30 10.88 (153.4)
11:00 10.75 (156.1)
11:30 10.58 (159.0)
12:00 10.37 (161.9)

and after shut down, temp continued to rise for 30 seconds or so to a max of 163.1 F.

Looks like my hand was a decent judge of temperature. Entries without a temp are because at one point the thermocouple fell off, and at another because I touched it to ensure it was still in good contact, and my finger drew it down in temp, spoiling the reading for a bit, and also right in the beginning, I was too busy getting the fast volts reading and was still getting used to reading two things.

In any case, the important point is this: the eneloops have passed the initial testing and are ready to move on to the field testing with Codeman.

Codeman,

I will build your light tomorrow probably and send it on the next day after the RTV has dried, assuming I also have time to get to the post office after work.


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## Codeman (Aug 25, 2009)

Sounds good to me...


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## Sakugenken (Aug 25, 2009)

Jim I got my USL, thank you so much for rescuing this project. Over 4 years but, thanks to you, it is finally here. Cheers!


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## js (Aug 30, 2009)

Sakugenken said:


> Jim I got my USL, thank you so much for rescuing this project. Over 4 years but, thanks to you, it is finally here. Cheers!



Over 4 years. My God. What a shameful fact. Sorry I didn't act sooner on this.

Everyone,

OK, after helping put out a couple fires at the accelerator, I got around to finishing Codeman's light, and it will be winging its way to him Monday via USPS priority mail. I'll confirm this on Monday.


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## js (Aug 31, 2009)

So, I went out and played with Codeman's USL last night. I had forgotten how freaking bright a 100W incan is. Zowie. Anyway, I will still ship it out this afternoon and will post confimration of this after I do it.


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## js (Sep 1, 2009)

So, yes, I did ship out codeman's light to him yesterday via USPS priority mail.

Ray, for testing, feel free to charge at up to 1.0 amp, with a topoff rate set to 200mA. For discharge, test down to .9 or 1.0 volt per cell, either way, just so long as you keep that value throughout the testing. What we want to do here is have the light get used somewhat frequently, in whatever manner. Short burns is fine. But just some use every day/night, and recharging. Then after a week or ten days or whatever, you do a charge/discharge test of capacity. We want to see capacity remain the same from the start, to the end. Now, I did a couple tests here, with my Triton, down to 11 volts, and got 2000 and 2016 mAh, so if you want you could skip the initial capacity test and just do one after 7 days or so of testing. Either way. Probably best if you fully charge your light, then fully discharge it to get a capacity, then charge it up again and use use use it.

Let us know when you get it!


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## Codeman (Sep 1, 2009)

Looks like I'll have to before the weekend. I'll definitely do a C/D/C to start with, just to identify any differences we might have between Tritons. Hopefully, they will be minimal.

I had been discharging the old cells down to 0.9V/cell, but I'm going to cut the Eneloops off at 1V/cell. I was also hitting the CBP's with a 1.5A charge. Since I want to maximize the life of this cell pack, the more conservative values seem a bit more appropriate.

I'll also mix run times up, to hopefully simulate normal usage.

Can't wait to have a WallOLight again!

Thanks for letting me be the test case, js.


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## Codeman (Sep 3, 2009)

My USL made it to the Post Office this morning. Unfortunately, they misread one digit in my zipcode, so it's about 70 miles short of being at the right Post Office. I should get it it tomorrow, though.


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## js (Sep 3, 2009)

Codeman said:


> My USL made it to the Post Office this morning. Unfortunately, they misread one digit in my zipcode, so it's about 70 miles short of being at the right Post Office. I should get it it tomorrow, though.



I _specifically_ made sure that the sending post office had the RIGHT zip code because the stamped return address label you gave me did seem just a bit hard to read. The guy said the number back to me and said that it would be encoded on the bar code on the postage. *&!%$#! I mean, REALLY!

Whatever . . .


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## Codeman (Sep 3, 2009)

It was probably somethig simple like some dust partially covering one number when it was scanned. The middle number was read as an 8 instead 9. No worries...


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## Codeman (Sep 4, 2009)

I had one of those Fridays that really should have waited to be a stereotypical Monday. Nothing went right until I got home safely from work, which at that point was the highlight of my day. The USL was waiting for me, so I'm thinking, finally - the day is going to get better. After putting up the groceries and changing clothes, even though I am hungry, I just had to get a bulb installed, verify it's made the trip safe, and start a charge. After grabbing the bulb that I had been using earlier, no joy. There's no visible break in the bulb, but I have plenty of un-opened spares. So I open a new bulb, check that it looks good, and install it. Still no joy.

I then grabbed my DMM and check the voltage on the pack - 14.99V - so that's good. I then check for continuity on both bulbs. They both showed closed circuits so I'm reasonably certain the bulbs are okay. I then re-installed each bulb, turned the light on, and check for voltage across the bulb. 0V for both bulbs. I then put the USL on the Triton, which confirms 14.99V and happily starts charging.

Unless it's possible for a bulb to pass a continuity test, show no visible break anywhere, and yet still be bad, the only thing left is the circuit between the pack, the can, and the bulb.

Given the day that I've had and the need for supper, I'm just going to let the USL top off and put it to bed for tonight. Tomorrow, I'll loosen the can and see if I can spot anything wrong. Given js's great packaging and very solid work, I'd be surprised to find that anything got jarred loose in transit, but with the luck I've had today, maybe all bets are off. The box was in pristine conditions, so there was zero evidence of any rough handling. Still...

For those who are continuing to suffer the long wait to get their USL, if I can't resolve the problem quickly, I'll get it on it's way back to js ASAP. We need to get the Eneloop tested so that the build can finish.

Having gone a while without a USL, I know how that feels (though not as bad as the wait that some of us have endured, I'm sure). Still, having one that isn't working, well, that feels worse than not having one at all. Like some kind of a really cruel, satanic joke. I hear it saying "Ha, ha, ha. I'll work for js, but not for you!!!!" #!$FAV##$#[email protected]##%^

In short,

USL - :nana:
Codeman - :scowl:


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## Codeman (Sep 4, 2009)

The Triton is showing 16.52V during the top-off.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 4, 2009)

I have been looking at my USL and trying to see what would make mine not work, and I can not figure what it could be unless the battery pack to body connection is broken. You obviously have inserted the pins in deep enough. Did you try re-inserting the bulb? Switching pin orientation around, though polarity is not an issue with incans. Just thinking out loud.

Bill


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## js (Sep 5, 2009)

Codeman,

For starters, everyone has received their USL, so no one is waiting on the testing, except for one person whose USL broke, or the battery died or something. So no worries on the time front.

OK, next, stick your DMM probes into the socket, where the lamp leads go, and see if you get voltage there. I'm guessing you won't. So, that means the switch somehow died or broke, or one of the wires to the switch leads came unsoldered. This has happened to people before, at least once, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.

And this is almost certainly what has happened here. Unless you feel up to unsoldering and removing the old wires and soldering them onto a new switch, you should send it back to me. But, if you are up for that job--it wouldn't be too hard--then I can just mail you a new switch.

If you find voltage at the socket, but still no joy, then that is a lot more puzzling, but I would still have some thoughts. But, I'll wait to talk about those until I hear the results of the voltage test on the socket inputs.

As for the can, you can't pull it out or tell anything about it, so just leave it. To disassemble a USL, you need to pry the rocker switch up and remove the two wires to the switch. You could probably use wire cutters--there's probably enough extra length to allow for that to be done and still give you enough lee-way to solder the wires to the new switch leads.

OK. Let me know what you find.


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## Codeman (Sep 6, 2009)

Man, you really did keep wire length to a minimum!

Sorry I'm just now getting back to you, but I was a bit busy with a football game yesterday. Yesterday, I dug out my Fluke test leads and the socket showed 0V. This morning, I popped the switch up. 0V but continuity is good. When I grabbed another light to peak inside, I discovered that the wire between the can and the pack is not connected to the pack. The end is just resting against the inside of the tube. Whoops!

With a little guidance, I should be able to handle the repair. I've got a Hakko station with 1, 1.6, and 5 mm tips, some desoldering braid, and some flux. What I don't have is any good solder. All I have is RS stuff - rosin-core 60/40 and silver bearing solder (96/4 lead free and some 62/36/2) in a couple of sizes.

I've been waiting for a good reason to use the station, which I've had sitting in the box for about 3 years. I've used cheap irons for years, with very mixed results. This will be my first time using a good one. I've learned the basics of soldering since I bought the Hakko, but that's about it. Still, this should be within my abilities. Famous last words...

I do have some questions, if you don't mind:

1) It looks as if I'll need to unsolder the switch and cut loose the silicone that is holding the pack in place in order to remove things. Is that right?
2) What is the best way to unseat the pack from the silicone?
3) What do you recommend for solder? I started to order some Kester this morning, until I saw just how many they offer.
4) What temp do you suggest I use for the switch? I'll use either the 1 or 1.6 mm tip here.
5) What temp for the pack? I'll use the 5mm tip here.
6) Is there any silicone at the switch-end, or is it just at the tail?
7) Will GE Silicone be okay when I re-install the pack? The tube says that it's good for up to 400°F.
8) Is there any reason not to silicone at least 2 cells on the end? I'd like to get rid of the rattle.
9) Other than making a note of the position of the can and the battery pack, is there anything else I should know?

Sorry for all of the questions. I really want to do the repair myself and save you the trouble, but I don't want to screw anything up. Besides, someone else might find the info helpful down the road.

Hmm...looks like I better calibrate the Hakko, too. It's off a bit.

BTW - nice finishing job on the tail/tailcap. The inserts really clean things up!


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## js (Sep 8, 2009)

Ray,

If you want to give it a try, I'm fine with that, but it is tricky on a number of levels. If it had been the switch, that would be one thing, but if it's one of the leads to the pack, that's another thing. Because there are two connections at each pack contact: the connection to the charging pigtail, and the connection to the switch or the lamp socket. So, if you heat up the + contact to resolder the power lead, you have to make sure the charging lead stays put. It's possible that you may be able to do this with the pack in place, but I doubt it. I suspect it will need to be removed.

I wonder how and why that lead came loose, though. I field tested the light and everything. One thing I didn't do was label the box as "fragile", though. It may have take some serious knocks, I suppose.

Anyway . . .

1. Yes.
2. It's only glued at two places at the back, so you can attack the RTV glue blobs with needle nose pliers or a screw driver blade. Just be careful about the pack.
3. I use kester "44" 60/40 rosin core solder. Stay away from silver solder. It's too high temp. You want a low melting temp solder. The solder you have is probably just fine.
4. I solder to the switch and circuit boards at 600 to 650 F.
5. For the pack I bump that up to 750 F
6. Just at tail end.
7. Yup. The only part that gets very very hot is right at the socket.
8. You can silicone as much as you want, but you'll be very unhappy later if or when you have to remove the pack. This is the weak point / most poorly designed feature of the USL. I did it this way initially in the proto-type because it was . . . well . . . a proto-type, and I told Bill he could figure out a better way to do it, but this is how it stayed. I haven't given a lot of thought to a better way, because while it is possible, and desirable, it is non-trivial, and I just wanted to get the USL project done.
9. I don't think so. The most important thing is that there is enough room for the tail cap to screw down all the way, but not TOO MUCH room, as you don't want the pack too far forward for a number of reasons.

I'll need to mail you a new switch and a length of the teflon coated wire.

And keep in mind, if you screw it up and get stuck, you can always pack it all up and mail it back to me. I really don't mind re-doing it myself.

One last thing: *BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO SHORT OUT THAT PACK*. It will be very pyrotechnic if you do.


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## js (Sep 8, 2009)

You know, Ray, the more I think about this, the more I think you should probably just send it back to me as-is. I'd like to see what that broken joint looks like, and soldering to a battery contact is tricky business--a sort of specialized soldering skill that takes some time and effort, some trial and error, to learn. Not the sort of thing you should do to an eneloop pack your first time out.

Unless you really feel strongly about giving it a try yourself (which I'm fine with), it's probably best to send 'er back to me as is.

Let me know what you think.


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## Codeman (Sep 8, 2009)

The switch is fine, so there's no need to replace it.

You talked me out of trying this myself, though. I'll send it back in a day or so.

I put some Magnalube-G on the threads, so it stinks a bit. Just thought I'd mention it, in case you haven't encountered its smell before.


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## Westy (Sep 29, 2009)

bwaites said:


> I figured out how to respond to the PM's.
> 
> I have responded to all PM's and emails I have received so far.
> 
> Bill



*please email me at bwaites(at)genext.net*

I just dropped Bill a note and have fingers crossed for the noted 'refund check on charger/supply not received. I charged mine up last night but have to do some reading here to see how my battery pack is responding. Seemed bright but I wasn't lighting fires and my eyes got tired so I shut down efforts. Very cool to see the eneloop pack testing.....didn't read how that initiative came about? Just a new option or someone looking for a store it and forget it USL battery option so it's always their when needed? With my work and use that would very much appeal to me.


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## js (Oct 7, 2009)

Hey guys,

Sorry I haven't posted to this thread in a while. I had been planning on reworking Codeman's light and doing the other last items on this project, about 12 days ago, but I pulled some muscles and have been more or less out of commission for a bit, but I'm back now and will be up for some workbench time this weekend. I'll report back at that point.


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 7, 2009)

Looking forward to your progress fixing Codeman's USL.

Bill


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## Codeman (Oct 7, 2009)

FYI - I didn't get my USL on it's way back to js for a few weeks due to my own health issues, just so everyone knows the delay was a shared thing.

I still plan on doing some Eneloop pack testing once it makes it's way back to me.

Glad you're doing better, Jim!


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## js (Oct 14, 2009)

OK. I did a couple hours of work last night. I wasn't up for it over this past weekend, still, though. Anyway, I don't know why that solder joint failed on Codeman's light. I was worried maybe I hadn't tinned the lead, but I did, clearly. So, once I fix it I'm reasonably sure that will be the end of it.

I also did some prepping and pack maintenance. There are only four packs left now. Two will go to bobbo, and two will be used for repairs of USL's. Then at that point, I think I'm done. I will either ship all supplies back to Bill Waites, or possibly I will sell the supplies and we can use the money to refund people who never got their Triton's and power supplies. I haven't heard from Bill for months and months and I haven't heard of anyone getting a triton or a refund from him, so I think the best bet is for me to sell the supplies and use the money to try to make things right (or a little more right than before) and then we can all be done with this project once and for all.

There are a lot of good supplies, too! Tons of bored out mag bodies and sockets and nicely machined cans to hold the sockets and which fit perfectly into a mag body (any mag body, not just the ones machined for the USL project). Also, I have a bunch of Carley reflectors that fit into standard mag heads. We should be able to raise about $500 or more. Maybe even $800 or $1,000. That will go a long way towards compensating those people who are still owed a charging system.

Thoughts?

Oh, and for the record, I will keep enough parts on hand to be able to repair any USL's for the future. I can make up packs by hand if and when needed, and I will keep some sockets and cans and switches, and I can always make up charging pigtails or charging cables. Easy. And I suppose I'll keep a half dozen reflectors as well. But, in any case, I don't want to get involved in making any more new USL's for people at this point.


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 14, 2009)

If Bill is not going to be involved then selling the parts off sounds like a good idea. Good to have some parts available for sale that would drop right into a stock mag.

Bill


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## js (Oct 19, 2009)

OK. Not many thoughts here. I suppose not very many people are following this thread at this point.

I did a couple, three, hours worth of work over the weekend, matching up parts to create full sets, both for sale and for the building of the last USL's. I had planned on getting at least one USL done, but sorting through all the parts and assembling everything took way longer than I had expected it would. I think I'll have about a dozen fully tricked out USL "kits" (with everything but the battery pack = body, switch guard, switch, can, socket, lens, and refector) that I will be able to sell to raise money to cover those people who were owed a triton and power supply.

The thing is, I don't have a list of who hasn't gotten his or her Triton! I mean, I have a list of everyone who ORDERED one, but I don't know who is still owed one. So pipe up, and I will also look back through the posts in the USL threads as well. Ultimately, though, I will probably just end up holding on to some of the money for a time, to be handed out as people check in on this thread and complain about not getting a Triton. etc. That kind of thing. Unless someone can come up with a better idea, that is.


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## Aircraft800 (Oct 19, 2009)

What kind of prices are you talking for the USL "kits"? A lot has changed since the USL, but a "kit" may open up a few doors for mega high power LED's like the Phatlight SST-90 that can handle 9A and need a low resistance switch and a solid host, or simply using new battery technology such as the IMR cells.


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## js (Oct 19, 2009)

Aircraft800 said:


> What kind of prices are you talking for the USL "kits"? A lot has changed since the USL, but a "kit" may open up a few doors for mega high power LED's like the Phatlight SST-90 that can handle 9A and need a low resistance switch and a solid host, or simply using new battery technology such as the IMR cells.



I honestly don't know what kind of prices yet. I will start by finding the cost of a 2D maglite incan, then add at least $10 for machining, $15 for the can and socket, $10 for the reflector, and $5 for the borofloat lens, and I'll throw the rocker switch in with all that. So, probably something like $60 for the USL "kit". But that's just my first thought on the subject. Not sure yet.


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## lctorana (Oct 20, 2009)

js said:


> OK. Not many thoughts here. I suppose not very many people are following this thread at this point.
> 
> I did a couple, three, hours worth of work over the weekend, matching up *parts to create full sets*, both *for sale *and for the building of the last USL's. I had planned on getting at least one USL done, but sorting through all the parts and assembling everything took way longer than I had expected it would. I think I'll have about a dozen fully tricked out USL "kits" (with everything but the battery pack = body, switch guard, switch, can, socket, lens, and refector) that I will be able to sell to raise money to cover those people who were owed a triton and power supply.


I've been following this thread with interest for a long time, bur never posted, as I always thought the project was none of my business, and the USL was closed to new participants. But if you're thinking of a partial "kit", then I'm interested.

I even have 62138 bulbs at the ready...


----------



## JSO123 (Oct 20, 2009)

Call me Piper...

If you 're going to start a list of people owed a Triton, but probably don't want or need one anymore, please add me. However, any sort of refund at this point would be a very pleasant surprise. Don't sweat it. You've already done your share of public service. My last email from bwaites in July indicated that he was busy, but working on it, so I guess thats still the case.

"The thing is, I don't have a list of who hasn't gotten his or her Triton! I mean, I have a list of everyone who ORDERED one, but I don't know who is still owed one. So pipe up, and I will also look back through the posts in the USL threads as well. Ultimately, though, I will probably just end up holding on to some of the money for a time, to be handed out as people check in on this thread and complain about not getting a Triton. etc. That kind of thing. Unless someone can come up with a better idea, that is.[/QUOTE]"


----------



## HarryN (Oct 20, 2009)

Hi JS - while I have followed the USL threads on and off for several years, I am actually not sure what the parts are anymore.

I suspect that I am interested in some parts, just not sure which ones.

Is there any chance of posting a parts list and pictures of the main ones. I suspect selling parts will be easy once they are posted.

Thanks

HarryN


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## Bright Scouter (Oct 21, 2009)

Hi Jim,

I know I have sent this info to Bill, and I am pretty sure you have it also. But,,, Bill did send me a power supply, but did not send me a Triton. I have long since gotten one and no longer need it. If he gets to a point in his life when he wants to send refunds, I ask that he send it to you for your work on the project.

Just wanted to make sure that info is in the this thread again in case he strolls through someday.

Thanks for all the work!

Del


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## flashlightgordon (Oct 25, 2009)

Hi Guys. 

I have been following this thread on and off. Is it correctly understood that everyone has recived their USL? I have not seen or heard anything about mine. JS - do you have me on the list? What is the status? 

FG


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## js (Oct 26, 2009)

flashlightgordon said:


> Hi Guys.
> 
> I have been following this thread on and off. Is it correctly understood that everyone has recived their USL? I have not seen or heard anything about mine. JS - do you have me on the list? What is the status?
> 
> FG



I *DO* have you on the list, and I see that you posted earlier on in this thread, and yet, somehow, you were missed! I don't know how or why that happened.

Didn't you get a PM from me asking you to verify your shipping address? :thinking: I am sure I sent either emails or PM's to people asking for address verification. hmmmm. On the other hand, I somehow also totally missed editedby's spot on the list! (He's at the end, though) I thought we were all done except for bobbo's other two USL's. So, that only goes to show . . . senility, memory loss, aging . . . it's not just for the old anymore! :devil:

Oh, well, whatever, either way the main thing is that you get your USL ASAP. Which will happen before the end of this week. *BUT* please do verify your address via PM as soon as possible. Thanks!

Everyone,

So I did a good amount of work this past weekend and will do more this evening. I will have Codeman's light, bobbo's light, FG's light, editedby's light, and a repair (you know who you are!) all ready to ship out on or before Friday.

And then I will sell off the spare parts and we will divide up the money as seems fair. If Mark65 ever shows up again I will give him some money in lieu of his USL order, for example. Not the full amount, but some (I'm thinking a third to a half--about $175, say). Also, since I shorted bobbo one light, he will get some money. And anyone who was owed a Triton (or Triton and PS) and didn't get it/them will also get some money.

So, please post if you are in this category.

Thanks.


----------



## js (Oct 28, 2009)

OK. Codeman's USL, bobbo's USL, and a repair all went out today via USPS priority mail.

I have two more USL's waiting on address confirmation. flashlightgordon and editedby NEED TO CONTACT ME WITH A VALID ADDRESS. They addresses I have on file are four years old.

flashlightgordon . . .? Hello? Hello? Respond to my PM please!


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## flashlightgordon (Oct 29, 2009)

Hello Jim. 

PM sent. Looking forward to getting my hands on the USL. What did the deal with the Tritons end with? 

All the best, Henry


----------



## Codeman (Oct 31, 2009)

js said:


> So, yes, I did ship out codeman's light to him yesterday via USPS priority mail.
> 
> Ray, for testing, feel free to charge at up to 1.0 amp, with a topoff rate set to 200mA. For discharge, test down to .9 or 1.0 volt per cell, either way, just so long as you keep that value throughout the testing. What we want to do here is have the light get used somewhat frequently, in whatever manner. Short burns is fine. But just some use every day/night, and recharging. Then after a week or ten days or whatever, you do a charge/discharge test of capacity. We want to see capacity remain the same from the start, to the end. Now, I did a couple tests here, with my Triton, down to 11 volts, and got 2000 and 2016 mAh, so if you want you could skip the initial capacity test and just do one after 7 days or so of testing. Either way. Probably best if you fully charge your light, then fully discharge it to get a capacity, then charge it up again and use use use it.
> 
> Let us know when you get it!



My USL was delivered today in good working order.

We have a big software push coming up next weekend, and I'm getting a new HVAC system this week, so I hope to start testing next Sunday.


----------



## js (Nov 2, 2009)

flashlightgordon said:


> Hello Jim.
> 
> PM sent. Looking forward to getting my hands on the USL. What did the deal with the Tritons end with?
> 
> All the best, Henry



FG,

Your USL will ship out today (I hope). I'll post back here when it happens and let you know the method and delivery estimate.

Codeman,

Glad you got it OK! No hurry on anything. Just enjoy.


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## js (Nov 4, 2009)

FG,

Your light shipped out yesterday via First Class mail.


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## flashlightgordon (Nov 5, 2009)

That sounds great JS - greatly appriciated. Is there also a charger on its way? 

USL incoming.. Woohooo!


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## js (Nov 5, 2009)

FG,

Sorry, but only the flashlight, lamps, and charging cable are on the way. You will need to either get your charger from Bill (not likely to happen anytime soon), or you will need to buy your own charger and possibly get a refund from Bill in lieu of a charger. Bill didn't want to send me the chargers and power supplies as they are very heavy (the PS, anyway) and he thought it was stupid to pay shipping twice. I wouldn't have minded, but I did see his point. So, once again, sorry, but at least a USL sans charger is better than nothing at all, right?

Everyone,

The small quiet voice of my conscience is speaking against my plan of selling all of the extra parts to raise money for refunds for people who haven't gotten their chargers from Bill. I'm thinking I need to, at the very least, talk to Bill about it, and almost certainly to get his _permission_ for this course of action. Potentially, all those custom machined parts are worth a lot more assembled into lights than sold as parts kits, and they do belong to Bill, legally. Or maybe they are better thought, legally, to belong to all of you who are out a charger and power supply. But in any case, I need to hear what Bill has to say on this.

I will call Bill in the next hour or two and see if I can through to a real live Bill Waites.


----------



## lctorana (Nov 5, 2009)

js said:


> Everyone,
> 
> The small quiet voice of my conscience is speaking against my plan of selling all of the extra parts to raise money for refunds for people who haven't gotten their chargers from Bill. I'm thinking I need to, at the very least, talk to Bill about it, and almost certainly to get his _permission_ for this course of action. Potentially, all those custom machined parts are worth a lot more assembled into lights than sold as parts kits, and they do belong to Bill, legally. Or maybe they are better thought, legally, to belong to all of you who are out a charger and power supply. But in any case, I need to hear what Bill has to say on this.
> 
> I will call Bill in the next hour or two and see if I can through to a real live Bill Waites.


I say take your time on this, Jim. If you feel they should be wholly or partly assembled first, or you need to think more deeply about pricing, I'm sure the interested parties will be happy both to wait and to consider the purchase on its merits when a price is announced. Or if you need to withdraw the tentative sale offer, please don't stress about that either.


----------



## js (Nov 6, 2009)

Ictorana,

Thanks. Good advice.

Everyone,

Called Bill on his cell and at home. No answers. Left mesage on his cell phone to call me.


----------



## Codeman (Nov 9, 2009)

At what rate should I do the D/C test of the Eneloop pack?


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## js (Nov 10, 2009)

Hmmm. I swear I responded to codeman's post above yesterday. :thinking:

Ah well. Who knows.

OK, so charge and discharge at 1 amp. C/2 is a good realistic estimate of capacity on the discharge side of things, and C/2 for charging is a reasonable charge rate that doesn't take too long but doesn't put much stress on the cells. 1 amp was the rate I used for measuring capacity of the eneloops.


----------



## js (Nov 10, 2009)

Oh, right, and I forgot the original reason I came here.

I sent all of the stuff back to Bill, not because he demanded that I do that but because, honestly, I'm done. I'm sick of having all those flashlight parts on my shelves. And I didn't really want to deal with a dozen more USL kits orders and packing and shipping and trips to the post office and etc. 

And I did what I set out to do, which is build USL's for the remaining orders. That's now done. And I want to move on!

So, I packed everything up, less enough parts for me to make myself my own USL at some point in the future, and sent it all off to Bill.

Oh, and I did talk to Bill on the phone, and he promised to send out chargers and powersupplies OR refunds in the near future. I mentioned some of the people waiting and he said he knew about them and had the list, etc. He also said he had some more battery packs, so he may possibly make a few more USL's and sell them in case anyone is interested.

Also note that his perennial internet troubles persist so he is often incommunicado.

So, that's the deal . . . it's out of my hands now!

Thank you everyone for being so gracious!

Finally, this thread is still active for the purpose of the eneloop field testing.


----------



## Bright Scouter (Nov 10, 2009)

Jim,

Thank you for all the time and effort you put into putting this project behind everyone!!!!!! A couple years ago I don't think anyone believed this would ever get done.

You ROCK!!!!!


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## js (Nov 10, 2009)

Thanks, Del.

You're most welcome!


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## Codeman (Nov 10, 2009)

js said:


> Hmmm. I swear I responded to codeman's post above yesterday. :thinking:
> 
> Ah well. Who knows.
> 
> OK, so charge and discharge at 1 amp. C/2 is a good realistic estimate of capacity on the discharge side of things, and C/2 for charging is a reasonable charge rate that doesn't take too long but doesn't put much stress on the cells. 1 amp was the rate I used for measuring capacity of the eneloops.



Thanks. I wanted to make sure that my testing was done under the same charge/discharge conditions.


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## flashlightgordon (Nov 11, 2009)

JS. USL arrived today. One word: FANATASTIC. Thank you so much. Seems like forever since i heard of this very special light. Now it's here.. damn. I'm just so happy. 

Thanks for completing the project JS. Outstanding work


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## js (Nov 11, 2009)

FG,

You're welcome! Glad it go to you safe and sound.


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## Codeman (Nov 11, 2009)

js;3155174...
OK said:


> After an initial C/2 charge, the following C/2 discharge down to 11V showed a capacity of 1837 mAh.


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## js (Nov 11, 2009)

Hmm. I think that is significantly lower than before, right? I think I was getting almost 2,000.


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## Codeman (Nov 11, 2009)

These are the settings on my original Triton:

NiMH Charge
rate - 1.0A
peak delay at start - 3 min
cycles - 1
delay between charge/discharge - 10 min
peak sensitivity - 3mV/cell
MiMH max charge input - 2000mA
Top off - 200mA

NiMH discharge
rate - 1.0A down to 11.0V
peak delay at start - 3 min
cycles - 1
delay between charge/discharge - 10 min
peak sensitivity - 3mV/cell
MiMH max charge input - 2000mA


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## js (Nov 12, 2009)

Ray,

Change the max charge input! Make it at least 2300 mAh for these cells, and 2500mAh is what I would set it at. You always need to put more mAh into a cell to charge it than you get out of it during discharge. So, you're cells probably weren't really fully charged when you did your discharge test.


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## Codeman (Nov 13, 2009)

js said:


> Ray,
> 
> Change the max charge input! Make it at least 2300 mAh for these cells, and 2500mAh is what I would set it at. You always need to put more mAh into a cell to charge it than you get out of it during discharge. So, you're cells probably weren't really fully charged when you did your discharge test.



After a charge with the max input set to 2500mAh, a 1A discharge showed 1849mAh - not much difference.


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## js (Nov 13, 2009)

Hmmm. Yeah, I figured that would happen after I thought about it yesterday. I was thinking, "Wait, the max input couldn't have mattered unless the pack was already almost empty. And it wasn't."

Ah well. OK. Let's call it at 1840 mAh then. Just go ahead and use use use it and every now and then do a 1 amp discharge to check capacity and we'll see if it declines over the next month or so, or however long you want to take.

Thanks, Ray!


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## Codeman (Nov 14, 2009)

Well, I tried one more discharge but this time I only got 1790 mAh. I'm going back to a max input of 2000 mAh. There's no sense in cooking the cells if there's no benefit.


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## js (Nov 14, 2009)

Ray,

The max input is a fail safe setting. The Triton will terminate charge on a zero delta V--i.e. it will terminate charge when the battery pack tells the Triton that it is full. So, if your pack only needs 150 mAh, then that's all it will do. A max charge is set as a failsafe in case the peak detect fails--because if the Triton just kept charging at 1 amp for hours on end, you would destroy your pack. But if you set the max input for 125 percent of the rated capacity (i.e. 2500 mAh in our case), then even if the peak detect failed, the Triton would only put in 2500 mAh of charge, which at a 1 amp rate would probably be less than an hour or two depending on how much charge your pack started with. So, if I knew I was only topping off a pack with a few hundred mAh, then I might set the max input for 500 mAh.

Anyway, the point is that unless your Triton is messed up and you find that your packs are burning hot at the end of charge, then it is not cooking your cells, no matter what your max charge input setting was.

One thought about what's going on here: it could be that we need to set the ending voltage of the discharge at 9.9 volts (which is .9 volts/cell instead of 1.0). Try that when you do your next discharge and see if the capacity doesn't bump up 50-100 mAh or so.


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## Codeman (Nov 15, 2009)

Jim,

Thanks for the great explanation. Unlike most technical devices I use, I haven't made much of an effort to really understand the Triton's various settings. Because of my ignorance, I tend to be very conservative so that I don't have any fireworks and I don't damage any packs.

I use a temp probe when I'm charging plus I try to check it with a Fluke IR thermometer. I haven't seen any temps over about 110°F, so I see no reason not to follow your suggestions.

I'll do a discharge down to 9.9V and follow it up with a charge with max input set to 2500 mAh. I'll then do another discharge to get my baseline capacity. I really want to see a capacity in the range of what you saw before I start the test so that we know we don't have any meaningful differences due to our chargers.


----------



## Codeman (Nov 15, 2009)

Okay, after a d/c down to 9.9 V, the following 1A/2500 mAh max charge left the cells at a safe 89 °F. The following d/c showed a capacity of 1863 mAh.

Unless you think I need to change the peak voltage to something other than 3 mV/cell, I guess we'll go with 1863 mAh for my baseline - a tad higher than my original baseline but not as much as I was hoping for.

Just out of curiosity, is your Triton one of the original models or is it one of the newer ones?


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## Data (Nov 16, 2009)

js said:


> Oh, right, and I forgot the original reason I came here.
> 
> I sent all of the stuff back to Bill, not because he demanded that I do that but because, honestly, I'm done. I'm sick of having all those flashlight parts on my shelves. And I didn't really want to deal with a dozen more USL kits orders and packing and shipping and trips to the post office and etc.
> 
> ...



Thanks js for all your hard work. It is nice to see this finished. 

I have a triton charger that came with my USL years ago. I sold the USL but still have the triton. So I am going to give it away to a USL owner.

js, any ideas on who is next on the list to get one?


Cheers
Dave


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## darkgear.com (Nov 16, 2009)

js said:


> Oh, right, and I forgot the original reason I came here.
> 
> I sent all of the stuff back to Bill, not because he demanded that I do that but because, honestly, I'm done. I'm sick of having all those flashlight parts on my shelves. And I didn't really want to deal with a dozen more USL kits orders and packing and shipping and trips to the post office and etc.
> 
> ...



Looks like I missed out...Oh well. JS thanks for all your hard work in getting people their USLs. GOOD JOB! 

Best regards,
Randy


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## mst3k (Nov 16, 2009)

I just wanted to pop back in and say also, "JS you rock." You have done everything the "right" way. You really came thru and I just wanted to say Thanks.


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## js (Nov 19, 2009)

Data said:


> Thanks js for all your hard work. It is nice to see this finished.
> 
> I have a triton charger that came with my USL years ago. I sold the USL but still have the triton. So I am going to give it away to a USL owner.
> 
> ...



Dave,

This is a very generous offer on your part! On behalf of all those USL people still waiting . . . waiting . . . waiting . . . I thank you!

I'm sorry I didn't respond to this sooner, but when I went to do so, CPF was down, then life happened. As for who is next on the list to get a Triton, I really don't know, but WB PMed me today or yesterday and apparently HE NEVER GOT HIS ORDER!!! And he's like #4 on the list. So unless there's some massive misunderstanding somewhere WB would definitely be next on the list.

However, I don't know if a Triton sans USL would do him any good. So, let's hold off for just a bit and see what's what. Otherwise, there were people that posted to this thread regarding their need for a Triton (after having received a USL), and they would all be good candidates. Their ranking order (in terms of who paid first) is posted in the first post of this thread.

So, sorry I couldn't give you a more definite answer, but thank you so much for this very generous offer.

Anyone who needs a Triton setup, please feel free to chime in here.


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## js (Nov 19, 2009)

mst3k said:


> I just wanted to pop back in and say also, "JS you rock." You have done everything the "right" way. You really came thru and I just wanted to say Thanks.



Well THANKS! I appreciate your kind words!

But, honestly, I'm not so sure I did everything the right way. But at least it was something and I did eventually step up to try to make the situation better.


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## js (Nov 19, 2009)

darkgear.com said:


> Looks like I missed out...Oh well. JS thanks for all your hard work in getting people their USLs. GOOD JOB!
> 
> Best regards,
> Randy



Randy,

Do you mean that you are still waiting on a USL order? If so, that's depressing! But even in that case, Bill should have all the rest of the parts again, and he said he has some more battery packs that he hadn't sent me for some reason (couldn't find them at the time due to have packed moved etc. something like that). So, let me know if you are still out a USL order or refund on same.


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## Codeman (Nov 22, 2009)

Codeman said:


> Okay, after a d/c down to 9.9 V, the following 1A/2500 mAh max charge left the cells at a safe 89 °F. The following d/c showed a capacity of 1863 mAh.
> 
> Unless you think I need to change the peak voltage to something other than 3 mV/cell, I guess we'll go with 1863 mAh for my baseline - a tad higher than my original baseline but not as much as I was hoping for.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, is your Triton one of the original models or is it one of the newer ones?



Okay, after one week of daily use, the results are good but a little creepy. Today's discharge was 1863 mAh.


----------



## js (Nov 22, 2009)

Ray,

Why are the results a little "creepy"? Just 'cause it's the same exact number as before? Or what?


----------



## Codeman (Nov 22, 2009)

js said:


> Ray,
> 
> Why are the results a little "creepy"? Just 'cause it's the same exact number as before? Or what?



Yeah, I've never seen that happen. I think I've watched Transformers too many times and my Triton has become a Decepticon and is lying...:nana:


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## Data (Nov 22, 2009)

js said:


> Dave,
> 
> This is a very generous offer on your part! On behalf of all those USL people still waiting . . . waiting . . . waiting . . . I thank you!
> 
> ...



I will wait till WB's light is found or sombody else on the list asks for it.


----------



## Codeman (Nov 29, 2009)

With the holiday this week, I wasn't able to run the USL everyday. So...I decided to give it a long continuous run today. After 6 minutes, I turned it off to briefly check temps:





Since 364°F is clearly hot enough, I'm going to bypass doing tvodrd's original USL fried egg test. :nana:

Although I didn't take any pictures, the body near the switch was around 135°F and the tailcap was 110°F. My guess is that the cells probably got cooked a bit, so I'll be limiting continuous runs to 4-5 minutes max.

I'll post this week's d/c results when the test is done.

By the way, I had a new HVAC system installed a few weeks ago. They came back out this week to tweak the thermostat settings since it's cool down some (dual fuel communicating system). My charging station sits underneath the thermostat, so the technician made a comment about my flashlights. I did a quick demo of a stock 2D Mag vs the USL for him. I never get tired of seeing people's reaction to the USL!


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Nov 29, 2009)

I've never tried 6 minutes continuous, and have keep it to about 1 minute, and it still gets hot, though very tolerable. Yeah, it is an attention getter. 

Bill


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## rdh226 (Nov 29, 2009)

Hi.



js said:


> Randy,
> 
> 
> darkgear.com said:
> ...



Just perusing the forums (been awhile, not paying attention), and came across this. Does this mean 
I missed out (rdh226, #69 on list)?

I'm not too concerned 'bout that (as I managed to score a couple used USLs over the intervening years),
so I'm pretty well stocked, USL-wise.

I was much more interested in your new battery packs, especially using the Eneloops. One of my packs
is completely dead, and the other is showing advanced senility.

Never got a Triton from Bill either. Sigh. Caveat Empter fer sur, eh?

-RDH


----------



## Codeman (Nov 29, 2009)

Weekly Eneloop 0.5C (1A) discharge test results:

11/15 - 1863 mAh
11/22 - 1863 mAh
11/29 - 1858 mAh


----------



## js (Nov 30, 2009)

Codeman,

Aiight then! We're on our way.

As for burn length, I don't see any problem with repeated 6 min burns. When I field tested the proto type USL I did a number of full 10-12 minute burns and the batteries didn't seem to take any capacity hit--although they were CBP1650's and not eneloops! But cutting that in half (12 min to 6 min) should give a decent margin. Of course, obviously less heat is better. But still, if you can't use your USL like you want, what's the point? Roast those marshmallows baby! Have fun!

RDH,

You know, I really should have known. Bill didn't give me accurate information, obviously. OK. Water, bridge, etc. At this point, we are field testing the eneloop pack to see how it will hold up to the PUNISHING environment of a USL. However, even if we eventually decide against the eneloops, I can always make up packs from Elite cells, or whatever high current AA cells are best these days.

However, the thing is that I sent all the parts back to Bill so that he could make up USL's from the extra battery packs he said he (probably) had on hand. And also 'cause I had had enough and wanted to reclaim the shelf space for my beloved books.

Let me talk to Bill and post back here.


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## Codeman (Dec 7, 2009)

Codeman said:


> Weekly Eneloop 0.5C (1A) discharge test results:
> 
> 11/15 - 1863 mAh
> 11/22 - 1863 mAh
> 11/29 - 1858 mAh



12/6 - 1850 mAh


----------



## darkgear.com (Dec 10, 2009)

js said:


> Randy,
> 
> Do you mean that you are still waiting on a USL order? If so, that's depressing! But even in that case, Bill should have all the rest of the parts again, and he said he has some more battery packs that he hadn't sent me for some reason (couldn't find them at the time due to have packed moved etc. something like that). So, let me know if you are still out a USL order or refund on same.



JS,

Yes, I am USL-less. I missed checking this thread for the important months that you were working on the project. No big deal though. If you have a list that you are passing on to Bill put my name on it and don't worry. Mahalo again for all the work you put in. Nice to see new USL's in the hands of their rightful owners 

Best regards,
Randy


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 10, 2009)

Codeman said:


> 12/6 - 1850 mAh



Ray, are you still doing 6 minute runs during the week, or more intermittent use?

Bill


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## Codeman (Dec 10, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Ray, are you still doing 6 minute runs during the week, or more intermittent use?
> 
> Bill



No, that one week was the only time I did a 6 minute run.


----------



## Codeman (Dec 13, 2009)

Weekly Eneloop 0.5C (1A) discharge test results:

11/15 - 1863 mAh
11/22 - 1863 mAh
11/29 - 1858 mAh (one long 6 minute run)
12/06 - 1850 mAh (1.1A?)
12/13 - 1846 mAh (1.1A)

Well, crap. I just noticed that I had my Triton set for 1.1A discharge. I had made some notes on the first few tests, so I'm confident they were at 1.0A, but last week's may have been at 1.1A. I'm running another 1.0A discharge, so I'll try to post that result in a couple of hours.

12/13 - 1858 mAh (1.0A)

js - it just occurred to me that the reason why my capacities are lower than what you saw might be because I'm taking them right when the top-off charge has completed without allowing any time for the trickle charge. If you did allow trickle charging, then that could account for most of the differences between our discharge tests. This is one area that the Triton manual doesn't make very clear. If I understand the manual correctly, the top-off charge runs at the user-specified top-off rate for a fixed 20 minutes after the termination, after which a trickle charge is applied at a non-configurable rate based on the initial charge rate.

Assuming that you did allow time for a trickle charge, how long did you give it?


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## mst3k (Dec 14, 2009)

For anyone that didn't get a USL and you still want one or at least something that can cook marshmallows and eggs. You can even get an extra battery and It's in stock. 

http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/The_Torch-74-41.html


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## Codeman (Dec 20, 2009)

Weekly Eneloop 0.5C (1A) discharge test results:

11/15 - 1863 mAh
11/22 - 1863 mAh
11/29 - 1858 mAh (one long 6 minute run)
12/06 - 1850 mAh (1.1A?)
12/13 - 1846 mAh (1.1A)
12/13 - 1858 mAh (1.0A)
12/20 - 1873 mAh



Codeman said:


> ...
> js - it just occurred to me that the reason why my capacities are lower than what you saw might be because I'm taking them right when the top-off charge has completed without allowing any time for the trickle charge. If you did allow trickle charging, then that could account for most of the differences between our discharge tests. This is one area that the Triton manual doesn't make very clear. If I understand the manual correctly, the top-off charge runs at the user-specified top-off rate for a fixed 20 minutes after the termination, after which a trickle charge is applied at a non-configurable rate based on the initial charge rate.
> 
> Assuming that you did allow time for a trickle charge, how long did you give it?


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## js (Dec 20, 2009)

Ray,

The manual confuses the terms "top off" and "trickle"--as I understand it, the trickle happens at the very end of the standard charge, unbeknownst to you, and is not configurable at all, and the top off happens only if you set it in the options, and only after the peak charge/trickle phase is done--, but however that may be, I was doing exactly the same thing you are doing. So, that won't explain it. It's OK, though! As long as the pack isn't losing capacity, we're good.


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## Codeman (Dec 27, 2009)

Weekly Eneloop 0.5C (1A) discharge test results:

11/15 - 1863 mAh
11/22 - 1863 mAh
11/29 - 1858 mAh (one long 6 minute run)
12/06 - 1850 mAh (1.1A?)
12/13 - 1846 mAh (1.1A)
12/13 - 1858 mAh (1.0A)
12/20 - 1873 mAh
12/27 - 1866 mAh

After 6 weeks and no more than 15mAh variance with the 0.5C discharges, I'm convinced we're not seeing any drop off using the Eneloops in the USL.


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## milkyspit (Dec 27, 2009)

Codeman said:


> Weekly Eneloop 0.5C (1A) discharge test results:
> 
> 11/15 - 1863 mAh
> 11/22 - 1863 mAh
> ...




I must say, that is an impressive performance from a set of mild-mannered consumer grade batteries. Very impressive.


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## js (Dec 28, 2009)

Ray,

How about performance during the high current discharges? (i.e. the actual usage runs)? How are they? Do they all seem to be holding the same brightness? No visible deterioration of performance in the field? If so, I'd say that's enough field testing and that we've proven the eneloops are indeed viable for use in a 100 watt incan.


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## milkyspit (Dec 28, 2009)

js said:


> Ray,
> 
> How about performance during the high current discharges? (i.e. the actual usage runs)? How are they? Do they all seem to be holding the same brightness? No visible deterioration of performance in the field? If so, I'd say that's enough field testing and that we've proven the eneloops are indeed viable for use in a 100 watt incan.



Jim, quick question for you... if the Eneloops were being overtaxed in this application, would you expect that we would see some evidence in declining measured capacity by now?


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## Codeman (Dec 28, 2009)

js said:


> Ray,
> 
> How about performance during the high current discharges? (i.e. the actual usage runs)? How are they? Do they all seem to be holding the same brightness? No visible deterioration of performance in the field? If so, I'd say that's enough field testing and that we've proven the eneloops are indeed viable for use in a 100 watt incan.



I haven't noticed any drop off using my Mk1 eyeballs. It's too bad that I didn't think about this when I started, though. :shakehead I've got a light meter and could have set aside a new bulb just for testing the actual output.


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## js (Dec 29, 2009)

milkyspit said:


> Jim, quick question for you... if the Eneloops were being overtaxed in this application, would you expect that we would see some evidence in declining measured capacity by now?



Absolutely, yes. But, I have a habit of getting multiple streams of evidence and data, and it's hard to break. I can't imagine a scenario where the cells would keep C/2 discharge capacity but lose ability to drive the 100W lamp, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. I just figured it would be good to get a negative response here as just one more check that everything is as we suspect it is.

Codeman,

No worries. Ye Olde Mk 1 eyeball is acceptable. And besides, as milkyspit's question implies, we would definitely expect to see the effects of the abuse in the C/2 discharge numbers well before the Mk 1 eyeball. I just asked 'cause it was data that was ready and available, so why not have it on record?


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 10, 2010)

Noted something interesting to me re unloaded vs loaded voltage of my USL cells, checking voltage with DMM fitting prongs into charger jack. I have been letting my USL sit around without using so thought I would turn it on for awhile to drop voltage and then recharge. I checked voltage ever so often unloaded then decided to check loaded voltage and compare. So at time of test unloaded voltage of pack was 13.44 and loaded voltage, light turned on, was under 9 volts. Isn't that quite a drop, and is that normal. Unloaded pack shows about 1.22 volts per cell and loaded dropped to 0.8 volts per cell. I stopped running the light. Unloaded (resting) pack voltage is now 13.40. 

Bill


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## js (Jan 11, 2010)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Noted something interesting to me re unloaded vs loaded voltage of my USL cells, checking voltage with DMM fitting prongs into charger jack. I have been letting my USL sit around without using so thought I would turn it on for awhile to drop voltage and then recharge. I checked voltage ever so often unloaded then decided to check loaded voltage and compare. So at time of test unloaded voltage of pack was 13.44 and loaded voltage, light turned on, was under 9 volts. Isn't that quite a drop, and is that normal. Unloaded pack shows about 1.22 volts per cell and loaded dropped to 0.8 volts per cell. I stopped running the light. Unloaded (resting) pack voltage is now 13.40.
> 
> Bill



No, that's a low loaded voltage. Try recharging and check again. Could be your cells just need some exercise or are actually on the low side of state of charge (resting voltage is notorious inaccurate for determine SOC for NiMH or NiCd cells). Or it could be more serious. Recharge, do a 6 minute burn, recharge again, then test voltage under load.

By the way, when you say you "fit DMM prongs into the charger jack" I _hope_ you mean that you plugged the charging cable plugs into your DMM, and then attached the charging cable to the pigtail on the USL via the molex micro connectors. Because you should NEVER jam your DMM probe tips into the molex micro connector terminals in the pigtail molex shell. They are very fragile and small.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 11, 2010)

Ok, will follow your instructions. Oh, ugh, yes I did carefully connect the prongs of DMM to the pigtails  and it won't happen again. 

Bill


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 11, 2010)

Ok, charged pack up and let rest for awhile, connected pigtail to DMM (correct way). Resting voltage of 15.63:

Start 12.90 then each 15 seconds:

12.90
12.22
11.97
11.80
11.68
11.61
11.58
11.57
11.58
11.60 (huh?)
11.62
11.63
11.63 and I stopped, and let rest for awhile then started again:

starting 12.52, then each 15 seconds
12.12
11.96
11.87
11.80
11.76
11.73
11.70
11.68
11.66
11.65 then stopped Total runtime 5 1/2 minutes

First part of run that I stopped was looking strange, and I did not want to continue at that point as voltage was tending up, not down. Continued run showed expected drop off. 

I am letting pack cool down and I will discharge with Triton down to about 1 volt X11, and charge back up slowly. What caused anomaly during first 1/2 of run?

Pack is not well at this point, or my DMM is tricking me. No problems noted with my DMM so far. DMM battery reads 8.68 volts.


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## js (Jan 11, 2010)

Bullzeyebill,

Your pack is fine! That's in the ballpark. No worries. The pack going UP in voltage is due to the high draw rate heating up the internals, thus increasing charge mobility, decreasing internal resistance, and as a result, _increasing_ voltage delivered even despite the falling state of charge. Perfectly normal when you're pushing cells to their limits (which is what we're doing here, make no mistake).

You can run these packs down to 10 volts, no problem, and the 62138 is still quite bright at that voltage.

If your pack sits around unused for a while, and you just ask it to up and handle the full load of a 62138 100 watt filament, it _will_ be unhappy about it and will fail to hold much voltage under load. But, all you need to do is charge it up and try again, and that _should_ bring it back. If you turn on and you get very little light out of the filament, THEN there's a problem. Even a pack that's been sitting around should give decent light--unless it's been sitting for so long it's nearly totally self-discharged.

Anyway, keep on using 'er. Things will be fine, I suspect.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 11, 2010)

Phew, thanks for responding. 

Bill


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## bwaites (Feb 27, 2010)

After many months of confusion, I am finally back on track to get this project completed.

I have emailed all of the people on JS's list who received lights, at least those that I have proper emails for. Some messages were returned, showing that email no longer active.

I have tried to PM those poeple here.

If you are on the list, but haven't received an email or PM, please PM me. I have power supplies and refund checks for chargers ready to mail, but as we now know, at least 4 addresses I had did not receive lights, I want to confirm mailing addresses.

From what I have read in the thread, there are also at least 2 people who will receive lights left, and I suspect a few more. I would ask them to PM me as well, I have sent PM's to them trying to contact them.

I do have additional parts to complete a few more lights for people who got lost in this horrendous shuffle I created. I will do my best to make sure that everyone is finally satisfied.

Bill


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 28, 2010)

Bill, nice hearing from you.

Bill


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## bwaites (Mar 1, 2010)

Thank you.

The first refund checks/Paypals went out today. If you have replied to my emails/PM's, you should have received some acknowledgement or a refund.

If not, please contact me again.

Bill


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## Trashman (Mar 1, 2010)

Bill, I just emailed you back. Thanks for the refund, but it was too much. I don't believe I ever paid for the Triton upgrade, only for the standard charger and power supply, so let me know cost of the standard charger and power supply, and I'll return you the difference (using the return money function, so Paypal doesn't take a cut.)


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## Trashman (Mar 2, 2010)

Got your email, Bill, and returned you the difference. I'm amazed that Paypal now has that "Personal" option where you can send and receive money, without there being a fee taken. I wonder what made them do that? Somebody on the top must be so rich that he/she is now feeling somewhat generous!


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## paulr (Mar 2, 2010)

Triton and PS refund received, thanks Bill!!! :thumbsup:


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## bwaites (Mar 2, 2010)

Trashman said:


> Got your email, Bill, and returned you the difference. I'm amazed that Paypal now has that "Personal" option where you can send and receive money, without there being a fee taken. I wonder what made them do that? Somebody on the top must be so rich that he/she is now feeling somewhat generous!


 
I'm paying the fee on my end. It's my fault this wasn't done long ago, it is the least I can do!

Bill


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## Trashman (Mar 2, 2010)

bwaites said:


> I'm paying the fee on my end. It's my fault this wasn't done long ago, it is the least I can do!
> 
> Bill



Oh yeah? Maybe, then, I paid a fee, while sending you back the difference. It did say, though, that using the "personal" option was free, as long as it is funded with your PP balance or checking account (CC would still incur a fee).


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## Bullzeyebill (Mar 3, 2010)

Trashman said:


> Oh yeah? Maybe, then, I paid a fee, while sending you back the difference. It did say, though, that using the "personal" option was free, as long as it is funded with your PP balance or checking account (CC would still incur a fee).



Check you paypal transactions, it will tell you if you paid a fee.

Bill


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## bwaites (Mar 3, 2010)

I have a business account, so I think I get dinged for anything! 

I can't even find the refund option, which is supposed to be free!

I haven't been credited yet with the refund either, which is interesting, because I did get a refund notification email from PayPal.

Bill

*Update: Now it has shown as credited. PayPal, I knew I hated it! But no fee deducted, which is as it should be*


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## Codeman (Mar 3, 2010)

bwaites said:


> ... PayPal, I knew I hated it! ...



Didn't we establish that a few years ago? :nana:

Seriously, it's good to see you doing this, Bill. It cost me $700 to find out what type of person another CPF member was. He's now one of the founding members of the CPF Hall of Shame, but I'd much prefer that he would have had the courage and honesty that you're showing here.


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## Trashman (Mar 4, 2010)

I checked my account, and under fees it says $0.00! Paypal is actually doing transactions for free, these days! Unbelievable!


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## bwaites (Mar 5, 2010)

All responses I have received from those people who js built lights for have now been sent or PayPaled refunds.

I have currently 3 more lights to build and will start work on those tomorrow.

I appreciate the courtesy and patience everyone has exhibited.

Bill


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## bwaites (Mar 9, 2010)

I have not received responses from everyone on js's list of built lights as yet.

But...all responses so far have been answered.

I still have power supplies and refund checks for those who are due them.

(I will try to keep this thread as up to date as possible.)


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## Bullzeyebill (Mar 28, 2010)

Now that we know that Eneloops seem to be able to handle the high current draw of the USL, the next question is how is the LSD, low self discharge holding up? The real value of the Eneloop in the USL will be, hopefully, its ability to still maintain a low self discharge rate even though it has been pushed and stressed to its current discharge limit.

Bill


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## JSO123 (Aug 1, 2011)

This must be the longest running thread in history! However, I am pleased to continue to learn new things from it.

I've had my USL for a year or 2 and have gotten a lot of fun out of it. However, about a week ago, after charging it to about 15.84V, it was bright for about 5 seconds and then dimmed to about 25% of full brightness. I've recharged it a few times with the same results. ( incidentally, it has been getting regular - maybe weekly use )

Today I decided to check the voltage - via the pigtail - with my dmm while the light is on (and off a fresh charge) and it read 8.3V. . I don't know much about the electronics, but suspect one of the cells has gone bad. I don't see the particular cells used for sale anymore and probably need to get a totally new battery pack. I'm not looking for a replacement from the original builders as a bad/worn out cell is not their responsibility. 

However, it looks like http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/ can build something that would probably work if I knew which batteries to tell them to build it with. Any suggestions? Thanks


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## js (Aug 4, 2011)

JSO123,

I replied to your PM.


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## editedby (Sep 20, 2011)

Can Bill or Jim give me a holler.
Thanks!


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## Minimoog (Feb 19, 2016)

Just to add to this I have just received a new battery pack from CBP using the Elite 2000 cells. This will be my second rebuild after the original and then the second pack did that sudden death. I have also taken the opportunity to treat it to a 3" head from Fivemega - really tightened up the beam. The USL continues to impress myself and all who see it, but it is a shame that it has slipped into history because it really was an amazing light. I took this opportunity to reverse the switch guard - as it was fitted it was the wrong way around as the pin hole was at the top.

I'm not sure what else I can treat it too apart from the head - I don't think bulb technology has improved since then. Are all the USL's dead now or is anyone still using theirs? Anyone still on the original pack?


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## dmdrewitt (Feb 19, 2016)

I still have mine, but it hasn't been out of the cupboard in a few years.


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## Minimoog (Feb 19, 2016)

dmdrewitt said:


> I still have mine, but it hasn't been out of the cupboard in a few years.



Was it working fully when put away or was it put away because of the batteries failing? If anyone wants details of pack replacement I am happy to give them - only takes about an hour and a bit of soldering.


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## dmdrewitt (Feb 19, 2016)

Minimoog said:


> Was it working fully when put away or was it put away because of the batteries failing? If anyone wants details of pack replacement I am happy to give them - only takes about an hour and a bit of soldering.



It was working fine, but not sure how the cells will be now as they haven't been cycled


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## darkgear.com (Feb 19, 2016)

Minimoog said:


> Just to add to this I have just received a new battery pack from CBP using the Elite 2000 cells. This will be my second rebuild after the original and then the second pack did that sudden death. I have also taken the opportunity to treat it to a 3" head from Fivemega - really tightened up the beam. The USL continues to impress myself and all who see it, but it is a shame that it has slipped into history because it really was an amazing light. I took this opportunity to reverse the switch guard - as it was fitted it was the wrong way around as the pin hole was at the top.
> 
> I'm not sure what else I can treat it too apart from the head - I don't think bulb technology has improved since then. Are all the USL's dead now or is anyone still using theirs? Anyone still on the original pack?



I still have a USL gathering dust. I could use the battery pack info please.

Mahalo,
Randy


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 19, 2016)

I still have mine. Not used for years. Is it difficult to remove and reinstall a new pack?

Bill


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## Minimoog (Feb 19, 2016)

I'll put together a short guide this weekend. The hardest part is the removal of the switch if it is glued in (applies to guard models only) and if you can solder it really is quite straightforward.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 19, 2016)

Thanks. I have the guard model.

Bill


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