# The most powerful Maglite mods list



## LightForce

I've been surfing a long time here reading about all this super-incan-HIDMags and feel really lost. There is so many kinds... ROP, 1185, 1160, 1166 and much more, and all different. Different output, different runtime... It's reaaly hard to find any information about estimated values here. Maybe someone who knows more could organize all this lights and create one list for inexperienced users. It would be very helpful..

Cheers,
D.


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## LEDcandle

I don't play with WA bulbs, but Mac's creations should be amongst the 'bleeding edge' of high power incans :-

250w Mag - https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/147981
The Torch - https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/117512

Of course not forgetting other lights like Mag100r, USL, Mag623, Mag625 etc... 

As to Mag85 and ROPs, erm well, they were a little too 'weak' for me to even look into... haha... kidding!


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## LuxLuthor

I moved my posted list of Mag Mod rankings to this new thread, by popular request.


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## Ledean

Very informative post Luxluthor .
Thanks


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## WAVE_PARTICLE

LuxLuthor said:


> *1)* I think that *Mac's 250w Torch model* that Mac made one time (he told me likely never to be made again) is the brightest of the "Maglite Incandescents." Osram 24v 250w bulb at 10K L (?)


 
I wonder who owns this one......  (not me, but I'm honored to know the guy)

Nice listing, Lux!

:thumbsup: WP


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## Hallis

The Polaris TK's made by Ginseng. There were only 30 or so made if i remember right about 2 years ago. It was definately top of the foodchain for quite a while. It drove MR16 reflectorized lamps of various kinds or the Osram 64623 HLX at 14.4v. I believe this should be counted in the list fairly high towards the top given that it puts out as much light as most of the top ones short of the 250w one. And was far less expensive than the contemporary hotwire mods out there today.


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## JetskiMark

Ledean said:


> Very informative post Luxluthor .
> Thanks



I'll second that. :goodjob:

Regards,
Mark


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## EricMack

WAVE_PARTICLE said:


> I wonder who owns this one......
> 
> :thumbsup: WP


 
Why? I heard he's a real putz...


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## Hallis

EricMack said:


> Why? I heard he's a real putz...




I heard impressive at first, but no stamina   

LOL

Shane


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## molite

Ledean said:


> Very informative post Luxluthor .
> Thanks


 
I'll third that!!!
Excelent post Lux!!

When are you going to post photos of your whole collection?
I know you own all those lights in your post except for #1.
If I know you, you'll have the 250w soon.
:bow:


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## EricMack

Hallis said:


> I heard impressive at first, but no stamina
> Shane


 
No fair talking with ex's... 






:lolsign:


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## Hallis

EricMack said:


> No fair talking with ex's...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lolsign:



Oh i was talking about the 250w Mag


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## WAVE_PARTICLE

Hallis said:


> I heard impressive at first, but no stamina


 

Yeah.....Eric is a short-burst, two minute runtime kind of guy! :nana:

but when he whips it out, the women go oogling......


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## WAVE_PARTICLE

by the way.....I was referiing to the 250W light myself too.


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## tanasit

I forth that with no hesitation.:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: 



Ledean said:


> Very informative post Luxluthor .
> Thanks


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## jumpstat

LuxLuthor,
Thanks for the resource...


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## Clickie

Damn Lux I really appreciate this post! I'm pretty much all LED but I've been wanting to snag an uber-bright incan just for s%^ts and giggles and your post really helps!!


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## LuxLuthor

Hallis said:


> The Polaris TK's made by Ginseng. There were only 30 or so made if i remember right about 2 years ago. It was definately top of the foodchain for quite a while. It drove MR16 reflectorized lamps of various kinds or the Osram 64623 HLX at 14.4v. I believe this should be counted in the list fairly high towards the top given that it puts out as much light as most of the top ones short of the 250w one. And was far less expensive than the contemporary hotwire mods out there today.



I never heard of this one, but seeing this Ginseng thread where he says it is about 2,000L for the 50W bulb or 1400L for the 35W, it sounds like it *would be in the 5th slot (w/ 50W) in my thread above*. Any that have it do a comparison or give their opinion?

Looking at this GB thread, there is also a 75W model bulb...not sure what that lumen output is. Hard to evaluate it with all the options.


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## Lips

Nice post LL

#8 is my fav of all. 

(1D)


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## MatajumotorS

LuxLuthor,
:goodjob: :thanks:


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## LightForce

Thanks LuxLuthor!:goodjob:


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## LuxLuthor

Lips said:


> Nice post LL
> 
> #8 is my fav of all.
> 
> (1D)



Yeah and the best news is AW just shipped the replacement Protected 14670 cells so I can crank up the 1111, and also the 1500 custom Carley 43W bulb lights made for FiveMega.


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## Hallis

LuxLuthor said:


> I never heard of this one, but seeing this Ginseng thread where he says it is about 2,000L for the 50W bulb or 1400L for the 35W, it sounds like it *would be in the 5th slot (w/ 50W) in my thread above*. Any that have it do a comparison or give their opinion?
> 
> Looking at this GB thread, there is also a 75W model bulb...not sure what that lumen output is. Hard to evaluate it with all the options.



Yah it was designed to use a wide variety of bulbs but mine came with an Osram 64623  Mine was specially built though. He held onto it a little longer to test out a different socket configuration. I dont think any of the others came with anything greater than the 75w bulb. And most had 50's. But mine definately puts out the light 

Shane


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## gammaray1965

GREAT INFO LUXLUTHER, CPF should have an additional ranking for Masterflashaholic! LOL!


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## Northern Lights

LUXLUTHER- I would agree but have to add a 5.5 choice to you list. The 1185 was a solution that came around first so it became very popular, is very efficient and can be made in many configurations. With that reputation some of the obscured combinations are over looked. As you point out the 1164 beats it in brilliance and at a slightly lower voltage. The Phillips 5761 lies right between the two, it is almost 900 torch-lumens, 1336 BL/868 TL, on 7.2 volts. The lower voltage allows more cells and therefore longer burn times in many configurations and definately lends itself to Lithium and NiMh power solutions and runs well without soft start or hot drivers. This bulb will work in a number of combinations that are used for the WA1111, @ 550 TL and the Pelican 3854, ROP, @ 600 TL. The 2C mag modded to an ROP LE was touted as being the brightest in that small of a combination. When unprotected 18650s with 2600 mAh cam along I found that the ROP LE stepped down to the 5761 plugged into that combination of parts. This had to be tested because the theoretical numbers suggested it was a line walker as to whether it would work well. Easy to see that it would hold voltage for a reasonable amount of time to keep the lumens up to the same output at 7.2 NiMh packs of 5.4 mAh capacity, and I use that light every night, it is a work horse not a shelf queen.
There are a few folks working with Osram IRC 50W and 65W bulbs and soon we shall see how they fit into the heavy hitters at these get up into the 3k-4k torch lumen catagories. 
This is a fun thread!


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## Action

I have to say that this is one of my favorite new threads. Great post LuxLuthor!

Nice addition Northern Lights, good to see more info on comparisons of lower voltage options.


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## Josey

JimmyM deserves some credit for his 11,000-lumen Mag458 monster-on-steroids light. The light is 3 feet long and is powered by 17 high-current 1/2D NiMH 4Ah cells. The beauty of the 90W Osram 458 bulb is that it can be overdriven to insane levels. I tried the mighty 623 bulb in this light and it popped instantly. After I bought JimmyM's light, I added FiveMega's new 3-inch head to give it more focused beam. This light will rock your socks. That's it on the left. Next to it are a 3,000-lumen 623 and an approx. 900-lumen, low-resistance 1185 regulated with AWR's Hotdriver (11.1V). Both are in FiveMega hosts that are bored for high-current GP2000 NiMH cells and both have external charging jacks.


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## Alin10123

Josey said:


> JimmyM deserves some credit for his 11,000-lumen Mag458 monster-on-steroids light. The light is 3 feet long and is powered by 17 high-current 1/2D NiMH 4Ah cells. The beauty of the 90W Osram 458 bulb is that it can be overdriven to insane levels. I tried the mighty 623 bulb in this light and it popped instantly. After I bought JimmyM's light, I added FiveMega's new 3-inch head to give it more focused beam. This light will rock your socks. That's it on the left. Next to it are a 3,000-lumen 623 and an approx. 900-lumen, low-resistance 1185 regulated with AWR's Hotdriver (11.1V). Both are in FiveMega hosts that are bored for high-current GP2000 NiMH cells and both have external charging jacks.



THAT LIGHT IS INSANE!!!!!


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## farmall

Josey said:


> That's it on the left.


 :lolsign: :lolsign: 

Thanks for pointing that out.

:lolsign: :lolsign:


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## LuxLuthor

I was recently thinking that if more women were interested in flashlights, then Jimmy could finally sell his "John Holmes" multi-use light stick. LOL!


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## CLHC

Hey Now! Thanks for that compilation *LuxLuthor*.

What's a *"John Holmes" multi-use light stick*? :thinking:


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## JimmyM

LuxLuthor said:


> I was recently thinking that if more women were interested in flashlights, then Jimmy could finally sell his "John Holmes" multi-use light stick. LOL!


Yeah. Multi-use. I like that.
That thing looks crazy. I forgot it was that big. However, it could be built into a 3D using 2/3As (Elite1500s) or a 5D using 4/5As (GP2000s) a 3x6 arrangement of 4/5As is only 14.4mm longer than 4 Ds. Maybe the tailcap could be trimmed to allow them to fit into a 4D. Imagine that.
Maybe when I have some time...


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## JimmyM

Josey said:


> I added FiveMega's new 3-inch head to give it more focused beam.



Do you have any beamshots of the before and after of this light when you did the FM3 upgrade. I'd love to see the after shot at a distance.


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## LuxLuthor

CHC said:


> Hey Now! Thanks for that compilation *LuxLuthor*.
> 
> What's a *"John Holmes" multi-use light stick*? :thinking:



I'll let you have the pleasure of looking up "John Holmes" on google.

Jimmy, I will have a bunch of shots of MaxBlaster, Torch, FM3H-2, Delghi 3" various combinations, and with various Osram bulbs like 64623, 64625, 62138, & with various battery packs from 13.2/14.4/15.6V, and that 8 x 14670 Carley 43W. I'm waiting for it to warm up a bit and the snow to melt here in CT.

I'm also hoping to get a 250W like Mac did with the 64655, and another 19.2V setup for the 64458 bulbs.


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## JimmyM

LuxLuthor said:


> I'll let you have the pleasure of looking up "John Holmes" on google.
> 
> Jimmy, I will have a bunch of shots of MaxBlaster, Torch, FM3H-2, Delghi 3" various combinations, and with various Osram bulbs like 64623, 64625, 62138, & with various battery packs from 13.2/14.4/15.6V, and that 8 x 14670 Carley 43W. I'm waiting for it to warm up a bit and the snow to melt here in CT.
> 
> I'm also hoping to get a 250W like Mac did with the 64655, and another 19.2V setup for the 64458 bulbs.


It will be like Beamshot Christmas!


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## Northern Lights

LL, yes, please post some of these beam shots or links to them, they are very useful resource material. Thanks.


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## Bright Scouter

And I assume you will throw in the USL beamshots also? I'm really curious how the USL compares to the maxblaster.


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## LuxLuthor

LuxLuthor said:


> This is my personal ranking, and I have all of these except the 250w Torch that LED Candle mentions.
> 
> *2)* Got A new #2 BLOW YOU AWAY *"DeathBlaster" *today. Uses 16 x 2/3A NiMH cells in a 3D light charged to 22V off the charger with a 90W Osram 64458-S that has a tubular filament, so with FM3H-2, it gives an exquisite hotspot. Jimmy talked about this bulb and said using AWR's re-rating formula it came out to 175-200W's




I added a new #2 today


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## willrx

Got to post a pic of that beast.


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## Hallis

LuxLuthor said:


> [/list]I added a new #2 today



You should put the Polaris TK on the list. The only info i could find on that 75w bulb was that it outputs 13500 (cd) whatever that means. The designation on the bulb is JR2701 12V75W EYF. Turns out i still had the box my lamp came in. 

Shane


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## LuxLuthor

Here a group shot. The DeathBlaster is not a unique looking Maglite, as it is a 3D tri-bored FM Maglite that his new FM3H-2 matches beautifully. However I can turn on this Osram 64458s 90W bulb with 19.2V from 16 2/3A Elite 1500 cells hot off the charger at over 23V !!! 

I would estimate that it is easily TWICE as bright as the Mac Torch and probably also the MaxBlaster. If you look at the bulb, you see it has a nice vertical axial filament (vs. the transverse 64623 100W bulb) which gives it an incredible hotspot and very useful throw.

From left to right: DeathBlaster, FM 3D Mag85, FM 2.5-D 1500L Carley 43W, Mad MaxaBeam's MaxBlaster with 64623 & 15.6V, Mac's Torch also with 64623 14.4V


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## Action

Hmmm, I wonder if this bulb would tolerate 24V? I've got a 4D tri-bore with a 24V MadMaxabeam battery pack waiting for a 24V hotdriver. I wonder how this bulb overdriven would compare directly to the 24V 250W bulb at its rating. 

Thanks for the pics Lux, any chance of some beamshots?


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## LuxLuthor

Yeah, I'll get some beamshots soon. It's hard to figure how this 90W can take such high voltage. You can try it with your 24V setup.


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## JimmyM

Action said:


> I wonder how this bulb overdriven would compare directly to the 24V 250W bulb at its rating.


 
AWRs hotrater says it beats it on lumens.


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## AlexGT

Awesome tread! but what is it doing in the custom BST? If you guys are selling, I will take LL's red beauty.

AlexGT


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## LuxLuthor

LOL....there was never anything for sale in this thread. I'll ask a moderator if they would mind moving it to Incand section. I'm not selling my red beauty, even though I have two of them.


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## LuxLuthor

JimmyM said:


> AWRs hotrater says it beats it on lumens.



Who has that one 250W that Mac made? Eric or someone? I bet they are ignoring these last posts. I'm gonna have to check it but I think this DeathBlaster is brighter than my Barn Burner.


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## LuxLuthor

BTW, Mad Maxabeam said that *JimmyM deserves all the credit for finding and testing this wonderful DeathBlaster 90W bulb*. I'm still amazed that it apparently outperforms a 250W rated 64655 24V Osram bulb.


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## JimmyM

Thanks for the recognition. I was comparing the published lumen data from the 64655 (24V/250W) to the 64458 (12V90W) using AWRs hotrater. The key is the life of the bulb. The 458 is a 4000 hour bulb, thus it can be overdriven a LOT. If you can find a 1000+ hour 250W 24V bulb, you can overdrive it well beyond 250W. The lower hour bulbs can be overdriven less. I just spent a while looking for very long life bulb.



LuxLuthor said:


> BTW, Mad Maxabeam said that *JimmyM deserves all the credit for finding and testing this wonderful DeathBlaster 90W bulb*. I'm still amazed that it apparently outperforms a 250W rated 64655 24V Osram bulb.


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## Raoul_Duke

It sure as hell isnt going to last 4000 hours anymore 
( I know you all know that BTW) 

I'm definatley looking forward to hitting this bad boy with 21V on startup for one minute, and a steady decline straight fall average of 19V to 17.5V for the 15 miute runtime it should get me.

Just need to get the rest of the parts.
This is a Hot Lamp 

Cheers Guys


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## EricMack

LuxLuthor said:


> Who has that one 250W that Mac made? Eric or someone? I bet they are ignoring these last posts. I'm gonna have to check it but I think this DeathBlaster is brighter than my Barn Burner.


 
Do you enjoy baiting other members, Lux? Is it me you'd like to spar with, or perhaps Mac who made the 250W? Sorry, not taking your bait. :laughing: Frankly, I rather think you are a nasty little troll, and not worth the time. 

Congrats on overdriving a bulb and making a bright light! Wow, what a first!  

Lux, I suggest you learn how to treat others better, and chill out with your baiting posts. You are a very big reason why I just don't care to walk these halls much anymore. :sigh: 

If you'd like a good suggestion on what to do with that big light, drop me a PM.


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## JimmyM

EricMack said:


> Do you enjoy baiting other members, Lux? Is it me you'd like to spar with, or perhaps Mac who made the 250W? Sorry, not taking your bait. :laughing: Frankly, I rather think you are a nasty little troll, and not worth the time.
> 
> Congrats on overdriving a bulb and making a bright light! Wow, what a first!
> 
> Lux, I suggest you learn how to treat others better, and chill out with your baiting posts. You are a very big reason why I just don't care to walk these halls much anymore. :sigh:
> 
> If you'd like a good suggestion on what to do with that big light, drop me a PM.


 
Dude. That's rough. Maybe text is a poor conveyor of "tone". But this sounds scathing. I'm sure Lux didn't mean to demean you.


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## jimjones3630

Hi all,

Have bench test resently and post results, probable in wrong thread, of the 64458-S(edited with correct bulb) and some others here.

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=162190

When I get more 64655's in will change methodology to measure volts at the pins, these where tested with DMM piggybacked into leads off of the bench supply.

64458-S liked overdirve but the two I tested flashed just over 22.5v.

Thanks to Jimmy for research and developement of this great bulb.

Jim


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## LuxLuthor

Eric, I wholeheartedly apologize. In no way did I mean my teasing in a mean spirited way. I bugged Mac more than you know trying to get him to make one more of those lights for me as praise for how beautiful and great they are. 

I looked at this other bulb and 3D length (I prefer a shorter light) as a compromise down...but only recently heard from Jimmy about AWR Excel spreadsheet rating thing...which I never heard about....and honestly had a hard time being able to consider this lowly 90W bulb could be anywhere close to your light.

I was more really happy that I got this other light from Mad Maxabeam. I didn't even make it or mod it....and it surely does not look anywhere close to that chrome beauty you got from Mac.

You took my kidding totally the wrong way...but I honestly didn't mean anything...except there is now a way to get a light that MAY perform like yours since Mac very clearly said he is NEVER making another one.

Again, I have always enjoyed your posts, and meant no harm.


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## EricMack

Lux, see my PM. We are good.


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## RickB

LuxLuthor said:


> 2) Got A new #2 BLOW YOU AWAY "DeathBlaster" today. Uses 16 x 2/3A NiMH cells in a 3D light charged to 22V off the charger with a 90W Osram 64458-S



Lux,

How are those 16 2/3A cells arranged? In a holder? Custom-built pack? It happens that I have a FM 3D Mag, quad-bored with a 12AA holder, as well as a matching FM 3H2 head. I'd love to build up a monster like this. It would be fun to see something brighter than my new USL...

Also, anything special with the switch? Just the bi-pin conversion or something more "robust"?

Finally, any idea of the amp draw and "runtime"?

Thanks for any info!

-Rick


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## LuxLuthor

Eric, thanks for your PM and note here. 

RickB, the 16 cells are in a tri-stack arrangement of 3x6 cells, similar to the pictures I showed of the MaxBlaster/Torch battery packs, but with POS/NEG wires coming out the back of this battery pack and attached to a small Dean's plug that in turn attaches to the tail cap FM type charging plug...with the black NEG wire having the effect of connecting to the aluminum body as ground since the charging plug is tightened onto the tailcap hole.

Apparently two of the 18 cells are dummy slug cells, but they are visible under the shrink wrap. I asked Mad Maxabeam about this very question, and will let you know. He also said that he is not going to be making any more lights...so it might be good for others to see more about how these are made.

I did not take out the KIU switch, but I do see a wire soldered to the center POS battery terminal contact spring inside the tube (on bottom of plastic switch...so I can assume that wire is going up into switch for better current flow.

I have some of the shrink wrap coming that will fit these battery packs, so maybe I'll remove it and take pictures since Mad Max is not making more of them for the benefit of others.


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## jimjones3630

Rick,

Yeah, I'd like to mod one of these as well. I ran the 64658 with a Kiu socket in 3" FM reflector on the bench for 3-5 min. and nothing melted. 

Ohhh, on one run with DMM leads to the pins the plastic cover over the alligator melted. Paper ignited instantly when brought to the rim!!!

The rim of the reflector is coated with glow paint mixed with extra glow power and that
is the brightest I have ever seen that stuff. In day light it looked unbelivable. 

Have bench tested/overdriven to flash point some 64658's as mentioned in above link. At 22.5v no flash and amps draw of 12ish. 

Since powered up with bench supply and not measured at start up with batt. pak can draw some conclusions by comparision to know values of simiular type. 

That would be 64625 at 12.65v (hot rater table) pulls 8.58amps, at start up other members have mentioned draws upwards of 30amp peak.

So, the 64658 probable would be drawing more amps than the 64625.

Solution, stock mag switch to turn on a MOSFET. The mag switch would only have a few amps to deal with and the MOSFET deals with the bulb.

Jim


RickB said:


> Lux,
> 
> How are those 16 2/3A cells arranged? In a holder? Custom-built pack? It happens that I have a FM 3D Mag, quad-bored with a 12AA holder, as well as a matching FM 3H2 head. I'd love to build up a monster like this. It would be fun to see something brighter than my new USL...
> 
> Also, anything special with the switch? Just the bi-pin conversion or something more "robust"?
> 
> Finally, any idea of the amp draw and "runtime"?
> 
> Thanks for any info!
> 
> -Rick


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## JimmyM

jimjones3630 said:


> Rick,
> 
> Solution, stock mag switch to turn on a MOSFET. The mag switch would only have a few amps to deal with and the MOSFET deals with the bulb.
> 
> Jim


I think you meant 64458 not 64658. Correct?
Anyway. The MOSFET modded switch you mentioned is exactly the solution I have (and you are) building. The "Problem" with a MOSFET during startup is it's super low resistance. The startup current spike will be even higher.
That's why I think that a PWM softstarter would be good. It could ease up on 22V over 500mS. That long of a soft-start would fry a Hotdriver. A PWM could handle it. I was thinking of something nice and simple. An LM556 for the PWM controller that drives a 30V rated MOSFET and the voltage would ramp up based on an RC charge curve that controls the pulse width. I think a 1kHz would be plenty.


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## jimjones3630

JimmyM said:


> I think you meant 64458 not 64658. Correct?
> Anyway. The MOSFET modded switch you mentioned is exactly the solution I have (and you are) building. The "Problem" with a MOSFET during startup is it's super low resistance. The startup current spike will be even higher.
> That's why I think that a PWM softstarter would be good. It could ease up on 22V over 500mS. That long of a soft-start would fry a Hotdriver. A PWM could handle it. I was thinking of something nice and simple. An LM556 for the PWM controller that drives a 30V rated MOSFET and the voltage would ramp up based on an RC charge curve that controls the pulse width. I think a 1kHz would be plenty.


 
Thanks Jimmy for noticing, yes 64458 is the one. I've tested too many of late.

Regarding start up, I know why you picked a particular Mosfet based on low v threashold. Have you considered a more robust albeit with higher v threashold like

http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets2/8/0i9swzj4af7rouwjs9o64lx1egyy.pdf

I think this one has higher amp ability. What do you think?

What do you think about using a smaller wire quage from the Kiu, like 20g to limit inital amp surge and increase inital resistance?

Jim


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## JimmyM

jimjones3630 said:


> http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets2/8/0i9swzj4af7rouwjs9o64lx1egyy.pdf
> 
> I think this one has higher amp ability. What do you think?
> 
> Jim


This is a P-Channel MOSFET not N-Channel. It has a continuous current rating of 47A and a Pulse rating of 188A. The IRF1324 is rated at 429A continuous (~160A limited by the package). It has a pulse amperage rating >1000A.

The MOSFET you linked to has on "ON" resitance (Rds(on)) of 26 mOhms. The IRF1324 has an Rds(on) of 1 mOhm.
I chose the IRF1324 because it has the Lowest Rds(on) I could find. If these 458 lights start reaching too close to 24V we'll have to switch to a different MOSFET. The IRF1324 is limited to 24V. There is another MOSFET I have that has a rating of 30V but its Rds(on) is 3.3 mOhm. It's still less than a Mag switch and rated at 110 Amps.


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## LuxLuthor

LOL...I'm like..."what's a mofset?" Are you thinking that MadMaxabeam put a mofset in this light I have, or did he just use a simpler setup? I can disassemble this, but not sure if you guys are talking about something else? Sorry for being such a noob about that mofset stuff and not knowing why you guys are talking about using it. I like to learn though.


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## Action

Now this should be a really good discussion! Please guys post some pics and info of what you have done. Could you also throw in some discussion of PWM and how its related but different to the Hotdriver? I don't quite understand the benefits of the mosfet under discussion when compared to the PWM (Pulse Width Modulation?) when compared to the Hotdriver concept. I get them sorta mixed up.

My limited understanding of what is happening is that the mosfet under discussion is used to bypass the Kiu switch (or it is used solely to turn the mosfet on/off) and both offer less resistance and have some softstart capability to keep from hitting the cold bulb with a massive rush of amps + the overvolt and instaflashing. Then again I could easily be wrong...



LuxLuthor said:


> LOL...I'm like..."what's a mofset?" Are you thinking that MadMaxabeam put a mofset in this light I have, or did he just use a simpler setup? I can disassemble this, but not sure if you guys are talking about something else? Sorry for being such a noob about that mofset stuff and not knowing why you guys are talking about using it. I like to learn though.


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## JimmyM

LuxLuthor said:


> LOL...I'm like..."what's a mofset?" Are you thinking that MadMaxabeam put a mofset in this light I have, or did he just use a simpler setup? I can disassemble this, but not sure if you guys are talking about something else? Sorry for being such a noob about that mofset stuff and not knowing why you guys are talking about using it. I like to learn though.


 
No sweat, LUX. I'm pretty sure he just did the "standard" Mag switch upgrade. It can handle plenty of amps, but it has relatively high resistance. A MOSFET modified switch has a fraction of the resistance of even the best modified Mag switch.
I've been messing around with a few MOSFET switch designs for the D and C switches. Once I solidify a design, I'll "publish". There have been previous threads on MOSFET switches here so some info can be found by searching. I also managed to MOSFET mod a C cell mag switch for my ROP-Hi LE using AWs C Cells. 3.3 mOhm. Nice and bright.


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## JimmyM

Action said:


> Now this should be a really good discussion! Please guys post some pics and info of what you have done. Could you also throw in some discussion of PWM and how its related but different to the Hotdriver? I don't quite understand the benefits of the mosfet under discussion when compared to the PWM (Pulse Width Modulation?) when compared to the Hotdriver concept. I get them sorta mixed up.
> 
> My limited understanding of what is happening is that the mosfet under discussion is used to bypass the Kiu switch (or it is used solely to turn the mosfet on/off) and both offer less resistance and have some softstart capability to keep from hitting the cold bulb with a massive rush of amps + the overvolt and instaflashing. Then again I could easily be wrong...


You're close...
A "plain" MOSFET switch is just ON and OFF. It resides on a circuit board under the KIU socket base. The stock Mag switch no longer carries any real current. It just provides a milliamp or two of current to turn the MOSFET on. When the switch is turned off, it no longer connects the MOSFET control pin (gate) to the B+ side of things and it shuts off via a small resistor from the gate to B-. Sweet and simple. Unless you're trying to REALLY push the envelope of a bulb.

The Hotdriver is a true regulator. It reads the output voltage and adjusts the resistance of a MOSFET onboard to vary the voltage. Since the MOSFET is acting as a variable resistor, it has to dissipate the power that is "burned up" in the MOSFET. The MOSFET can only dissipate so much power before it goes poof.

The PWM soft-starter I mentioned, is NOT a regulator. What it would do is turn a MOSFET on and off several 10s of thousands of times per second. Once the light switch is turned on, the amount of time the MOSFET is ON during each "pulse" goes from almost 0 to 100%. At almost no time is the MOSFET acting like a resistor and dissipating energy as heat. The Bulb would just see an increasing amount of average power as the MOSFET goes to 100% duty. As long as you don't exceed the voltage that the MOSFET and controller chip can take, you could soft-start a 24V bulb pulling 60 amps over the course of a minute if you want.
A PWM regulator is a PWM circuit that reads the output voltage and varies the "duty cycle" of the MOSFET to keep the average voltage that the bulb sees at a certain value. This is a more complex issue and could be a thread of its own. Winny built a PWM based regulator called the PIR. They are rare and expensive and complicated.


----------



## LuxLuthor

OK, but what is the basic "punch line" of what a mofset does, and why you are trying to use it instead of the basic switch mod that MM likely did on this? Like with the mofset, can you now make English Muffin toast? LOL!


----------



## jimjones3630

Thanks, 

Well now that is cleared up. 

I posted the wrong one, the other is n-channel, 150v, 250a pulsed, 60a continous, 220w, Rds(on).032Ohm. Starting to wrap my head around it.



JimmyM said:


> This is a P-Channel MOSFET not N-Channel. It has a continuous current rating of 47A and a Pulse rating of 188A. The IRF1324 is rated at 429A continuous (~160A limited by the package). It has a pulse amperage rating >1000A.
> 
> The MOSFET you linked to has on "ON" resitance (Rds(on)) of 26 mOhms. The IRF1324 has an Rds(on) of 1 mOhm.
> I chose the IRF1324 because it has the Lowest Rds(on) I could find. If these 458 lights start reaching too close to 24V we'll have to switch to a different MOSFET. The IRF1324 is limited to 24V. There is another MOSFET I have that has a rating of 30V but its Rds(on) is 3.3 mOhm. It's still less than a Mag switch and rated at 110 Amps.


----------



## jimjones3630

Maybe if you connect them in series.

My rudimental understanding is a Mosfet can handle higher amps depending on the rating of the Mosfet, 100's of amps. While the stock mag switch is use only to turn on and off the Mosfet.

Jim



LuxLuthor said:


> OK, but what is the basic "punch line" of what a mofset does, and why you are trying to use it instead of the basic switch mod that MM likely did on this? Like with the mofset, can you now make English Muffin toast? LOL!


----------



## LuxLuthor

jimjones3630 said:


> Maybe if you connect them in series.
> 
> My rudimental understanding is a Mosfet can handle higher amps depending on the rating of the Mosfet, 100's of amps. While the stock mag switch is use only to turn on and off the Mosfet.
> 
> Jim



Like how many amps are you saying a modified mag switch can handle, and what kind of bulb are you saying will need more than that ? I'm just trying to get a simple practical idea of why you and Jimmy are looking into this for these kinds of lights....since it appears that the 64458 flashes at 24V anyway. Thanks!


----------



## JimmyM

Essentially a MOSFET is a relay. Use a tiny amount of current to control a very large one. Also, and most importantly, a MOSFET has extremely low resistance.
The switch will work for ~10A, but it's resistance drops voltage that would have gone to the bulb.
10A going through a Mag switch (~100 mOhm) will lose 1 full volt.
10A going through a MOSFET switch (1 mOhm) will lose 0.01 volts.

jimjones3630,
That MOSFET has 0.032 Ohms. The International Rectifier IRF1324 has 0.001 Ohms. That's 1/32 of the resistance of the one in your post. It's not just about amperage. It's also about resistance.
Good effort. Keep looking. If you find one with lower resistance, definitely post it here!


----------



## LuxLuthor

Jimmy, do you know how much 10A going through the *modified mag* switch drops the voltage to the bulb? Just trying to see how much that helps over the 1V drop with stock. Thanks


----------



## JimmyM

LuxLuthor said:


> Jimmy, do you know how much 10A going through the *modified mag* switch drops the voltage to the bulb? Just trying to see how much that helps over the 1V drop with stock. Thanks


 
I'm not sure. BUT I've got a Mag623, a stock switch, a modded switch, and will have another MOSFET switch soon. When I have some time I'll do a comparison.

edit: Hey I found this...
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/99710


----------



## jimjones3630

Thanks for bringing this into this thread. 

edit: Hey I found this...
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/99710[/QUOTE]

This is one of the first treads I started to study along with the USL threads has great stuff.

Jim


----------



## jimjones3630

Lux,

at 22.v the 64458 has the about the same lumens as this

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=159436

and with a mag like form factor instead of spot light lantern size is why I'm excited about it. 

Push it to the smallist, brightist, most effecient wouldn't that be the....


What are we doing here? There is some science, technology available to be learned and applied but why is a deep question.

Jim



LuxLuthor said:


> Like how many amps are you saying a modified mag switch can handle, and what kind of bulb are you saying will need more than that ? I'm just trying to get a simple practical idea of why you and Jimmy are looking into this for these kinds of lights....since it appears that the 64458 flashes at 24V anyway. Thanks!


----------



## LuxLuthor

That is amazing Jim....it was interesting to read AWR's measurements of the various Ohm readings of each of the fixes in that link you gave. And the overall change of:



> The end result.. the switch i started with measured 500mV drop at 3A.. or 167mohm... after i was done with the modification.. it measured 27.3 mohm.


----------



## jimjones3630

More bulbs arrived today from bulbconnection.com. I don't work for them but found them easy to order from and they deliver FedX which I do like.

In the pursuit fun hooked up one more 64458s this time at the pins with DMM, Kiu socket and old analog EMI 72v, 13a supply. Again FM 3" reflector pointed at the ceiling.

Flashed at 21.6v, about 11.5amps. Previously they flashed at next increase from 22.5v but measured with DMM piggyback at supply. Seams like the number should be reversed but maybe the first bulb was hardy and this last punny??

Plan to fry one more tomorrow.

Jim


----------



## jimjones3630

duplicate post


----------



## LuxLuthor

Yeah, that doesn't make sense unless the bulb was defective. Now you got me curious to check the bulb voltage. Heck, now that I have my new DMM, I will have to check the current too. This weekend.


----------



## Action

Just wondering, was there any attempt at a soft start to minimize the chance of instaflashing? I assume that you started at something quite a bit lower than 21V and then moved up in power?



jimjones3630 said:


> More bulbs arrived today from bulbconnection.com. I don't work for them but found them easy to order from and they deliver FedX which I do like.
> 
> In the pursuit fun hooked up one more 64458s this time at the pins with DMM, Kiu socket and old analog EMI 72v, 13a supply. Again FM 3" reflector pointed at the ceiling.
> 
> Flashed at 21.6v, about 11.5amps. Previously they flashed at next increase from 22.5v but measured with DMM piggyback at supply. Seams like the number should be reversed but maybe the first bulb was hardy and this last punny??
> 
> Plan to fry one more tomorrow.
> 
> Jim


----------



## LuxLuthor

jimjones3630 said:


> More bulbs arrived today from bulbconnection.com. I don't work for them but found them easy to order from and they deliver FedX which I do like.
> 
> In the pursuit fun hooked up one more 64458s this time at the pins with DMM, Kiu socket and old analog EMI 72v, 13a supply. Again FM 3" reflector pointed at the ceiling.
> 
> Flashed at 21.6v, about 11.5amps. Previously they flashed at next increase from 22.5v but measured with DMM piggyback at supply. Seams like the number should be reversed but maybe the first bulb was hardy and this last punny??
> 
> Plan to fry one more tomorrow.
> 
> Jim



I have a stupid question. This new Triplett DMM (and most of the Fluke's that people were talking about) has a 10A current measurement limitation. How are you measuring above 10A ?

When I try to complete the circuit with this one set on 10A it won't turn on the light. Surprised it doesn't give me an *OL* reading though.


----------



## jimjones3630

Hi Lux,

I measure amps from the bench power supply which has two analog guages. One volts 0-72v, other amps 0-13. It's an EMI- Electronic Measurements Inc. older unit, somewhat like me. The leads from the unit have piggyback capibility via banana clips and also another hole on each lead where a non banana lead can be piggyback close to the unit.

I just piggyback a DMM to get digital 3 point readout.

Considering the cost of newer digital readout bench power supply in that range I think it was well worth the $50 I paid on Ebay.

This thing weights 40# and sort of matchs my analog multimeter ts-505d/u.

The first one to post what that multimeter is will be awarded the grand muck muck fubar award.

If can get a good photo I'll post it.

Handheld meter so have limitations. But some really neat capibilities like data storage via connect to computor. Out of my experience but have read some interesting posts.

Jim



LuxLuthor said:


> I have a stupid question. This new Triplett DMM (and most of the Fluke's that people were talking about) has a 10A current measurement limitation. How are you measuring above 10A ?
> 
> When I try to complete the circuit with this one set on 10A it won't turn on the light. Surprised it doesn't give me an *OL* reading though.


----------



## jimjones3630

Both work, accurate and out done by newer modles no doubt.


----------



## jimjones3630

Rim of reflector coated with Glowinc's excellant product, and I don't work for them just a satisfied user. This stuff is really impressive.

19.24v, 10.5amps





varied to 19.23, 10.5amps and at next increase up it flashed.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Jim, that's pretty cool looking! I was reading this forum post on an electroplating site talking about adding an external shunt to use a 10A DMM to take higher current readings.

In any case, I did take mine all apart again, including taking apart the battery pack and taking pictures of the whole setup...since I got some shrink wrap to put back around the batteries. I used two small wire loops around the bulb pins and replaced the bulb to get bulb voltage. 

It didn't take many seconds before the wire insulation started smoking, but hot off the charger when my battery pack was reading 23.6V my *voltage reading from the 20 AWG wires going to the bulb pins was 21.8V* and dropped just about 21.0 V before I aborted due to the smoking wire insulation. Three minutes after the readings, the battery pack voltage was 23.4V

LOL! I see something smoking in your picture with the bulb lighted too!


----------



## jimjones3630

Lux, I'll check out the site latter. Wire size makes a difference I've read. Don't know the measurements but 20g wire may limit the accurate reading with that kind of volts.

Some have used smaller wire size to limits in rush of amps with kiu scoket use 20g wire on one lead. I don't recall which bulb/batt combo they used think maybe was 64615 and 12 cell pak and put some resistance in the tailcap spring by using a 20 or 22g wire jumper.

That smoke in the pic is from the glowinc power/paint it has been weeks since I applied it so you think the stuff would be dry. It's not turning any darker of a color from it's original green. Just moisture I guess.

Look forward to seeing those pics. of yours. 

I did another flash test this time with the DMM test leads piggyback at the power supply. Will post those pics.

I hope all of this encourages others to 64458s experimenting and developement. This is a killer bulb. As I posted in another thread a ceiling bounce test with it and the 250w, 24v, 64655 driven to the limits of my bench supply was no subjective difference to me. They looked equally bright, white, and amount using FM's 3" reflector.

Jim



LuxLuthor said:


> Jim, that's pretty cool looking! I was reading this forum post on an electroplating site talking about adding an external shunt to use a 10A DMM to take higher current readings.
> 
> In any case, I did take mine all apart again, including taking apart the battery pack and taking pictures of the whole setup...since I got some shrink wrap to put back around the batteries. I used two small wire loops around the bulb pins and replaced the bulb to get bulb voltage.
> 
> It didn't take many seconds before the wire insulation started smoking, but hot off the charger when my battery pack was reading 23.6V my *voltage reading from the 20 AWG wires going to the bulb pins was 21.8V* and dropped just about 21.0 V before I aborted due to the smoking wire insulation. Three minutes after the readings, the battery pack voltage was 23.4V
> 
> LOL! I see something smoking in your picture with the bulb lighted too!


----------



## jimjones3630

This time DMM leads piggybacked as first time tested getting over 22.5v to 64458s then but now only 20.52v and pulling about 10.5a.






The next increase the bulb flickered, started to go dark the volts on meter automatically droped then continued to stay lit at lower voltage. With one more increase by me and the bulb again flickered, darkened, and stayed lit at lower voltage. 

Stopped to have a look since the bulb was still lit and from the photo you may not see clearly but towards middle of the axial filament is a break and toward the bottom of the axial filament is another break. Both refused themselves.


----------



## LuxLuthor

This is pretty straightforward, and the pack goes in the tri-bored 3D light with KIU w/ PR switch fix, and wires go back to one of FM's +/- tail cap plugs which is anchored externally. POS wire soldered to center pin & NEG to side of charging pin....makes it handy for external charging as shown in my earlier picture with the pink flowered bush. You can order the battery pack with welded stacks from CBP.


----------



## mooke

Lux,thanks for the pics.I was looking for something like that.I just ordered all the stuff to make a 13 cell pack for a Mag623.

Mooke


----------



## jimjones3630

Lux,

Thanks indeed. I didn't get a reply from MM so he's probable not interested in building other paks.

Might order from cbp direct once figure out optium cell pak, electronics required. 

For sure it runs on 16 2/3a, 17 1/2 D's, I'm tempted to order a 18 4/5A GP2000 pak. Looks to be too hard to add a cell latter.

Jim


----------



## mooke

I PM'd Mad Maxabeam and he doesn't expect any more battery packs being made.

Mooke


----------



## jimjones3630

Which looks brighter to you?

64655 250w, 24v, about 12amp draw






64458s 90w, about 20v, 10.5a
Tried to keep reflector in same position both shots






Glow after 24v bulb






Glow after 90w


----------



## LuxLuthor

Jim, that's pretty hard to tell which is brighter. The light on the left side is striking more of computer case, so that changes it. Also the lamp shade shadow is darker in one...but could just be white wall/ceiling reflection also. LOL! That glow powder is screaming.


----------



## jimjones3630

I see what your saying about the shadow. In real time I can't tell any difference between the two bulbs. 

Otherwise the 64655 is 20 cells and the 64458 is 17 or 18 maybe and lumens/watt the 64458 is more effecient. 

The glow powder is screaming. Looks like something out of this world.
I have it on a [email protected] and is not near as bright.

Jim



LuxLuthor said:


> Jim, that's pretty hard to tell which is brighter. The light on the left side is striking more of computer case, so that changes it. Also the lamp shade shadow is darker in one...but could just be white wall/ceiling reflection also. LOL! That glow powder is screaming.


----------



## Patriot

I can't tell or even guess because of where they're aimed. Maybe aim it towards the corner where the it meets the ceiling. Sounds like a fun comparison! Ok, I'll guess the 2nd one is brighter, but only according to that particular set of pics.


----------



## jimjones3630

I'd like to get them both up at night outside. I have one 64458 left and several 64655's. Since the 64458 is axial filament and the 64655 is transverse, I'm guessing the axial filament will have the better throw even thow.

Jim


----------



## LuxLuthor

I need a tripod, then I'm all set to take a bunch of pix of these various lights.


----------



## jimjones3630

Pushing onward in search most lumens, in smallest package with the most effeciency and fun above is 64625, 12v, 3" FM 3H-1 reflector, 13.2A batt. pak, HD set 12.75v.

I have been running this light direct drive with same combo and am impressed the difference HD makes. 






Above is 64655, 24v, FM 3H-2 reflector, from bench power at 24v, the max of my equip. at about 12A. Poor quality pics sorry but this was shot with a 2m pix cell phone camera.






And the 64458s 90w, about 20v, 10.5a on bench power supply. From looking at the pics the 24v looks maybe brighter. Both flood monsters. My neighbor two house behind the trees was yelling "look at that light!"

Hope someone with good camera equipment continues.

Jim


----------



## JimmyM

The 655 might have a slightly better foreground, but the 458 has a brighter hot spot on the shed. It's just too darn close to call without some instrumentation.


----------



## LuxLuthor

I feel this thread deserves a hearty bump. LOL!


----------



## JimmyM

Oops. Thought I was replying to a different thread.

Anyway. Yeah good bump. Any news on lumen figures fro the 458 versus the 655?





LuxLuthor said:


> I feel this thread deserves a hearty bump. LOL!


----------



## jimjones3630

both pics are the 64558s in FM 3H-1 reflector, 16 Elite 2000 4/5's. Easy to build the batt. pak with 16 cells, will abit more work to mod the tailcap to accept 17 cells but then the next 3 cells for total of 20 would be all down hill from there.







Hope these photos show the difference bench supply and this batt. pak. Looks way better to me. Hope someone posts some lumen readings since I don't have the equipment.

Jim


----------



## LuxLuthor

Someone needs a tripod! 

You are using those cells for more capacity? The physical size is why the 2/3A cells make it easier to setup a 3D with 16 or 17....but my understanding is 17 cells runs the risk of flashing?


----------



## JimmyM

LuxLuthor said:


> Someone needs a tripod!
> 
> You are using those cells for more capacity? The physical size is why the 2/3A cells make it easier to setup a 3D with 16 or 17....but my understanding is 17 cells runs the risk of flashing?


17 rested cells won't flash it. 18 DEFINITELY will flash it.


----------



## jimjones3630

Lux, yes I'm using 4/5A's for longer run time. The Elephant body is just mm's longer than 3D with the 160mm extension, easily fit 4sx5p 4/5 A's by doing a tailcap mod.

Can fit 16 AA 4sx4p or using 2/3A even more in an old Mag D. Problem with the old (no D in the serial number) D it's threaded differently and FM's 3" head won't fit. Would make one stealth light.

Recently found stored away what I initally thought a 3D kel-lite. Due to it's lack of a mag lite like switch, uses a copper strip to make contact between bat. and bulb (simplicity itself), it's turned out to be a 5D easily holding 4sx6p AA's.

Oh, the possibilities.

Yes, truly need a tripod. Hopefully, someone with a Death Blaster will have one and post some lovely photo's. 

The real time effect of this mod is no way done justice by these photos. Blazed this monster next to [email protected] with FM-3H1 and it looked dim in comparison. 11,000 lumens vs 2,2500 L. about 1/4th lumens.

Much like comparing [email protected] side by side with SF M3. Has changed my definition of a Wow light.

Plan to add 17th cell once electronics(soft start, PWM) is worked out.

Jim



LuxLuthor said:


> Someone needs a tripod!
> 
> You are using those cells for more capacity? The physical size is why the 2/3A cells make it easier to setup a 3D with 16 or 17....but my understanding is 17 cells runs the risk of flashing?


----------



## frogs3

Have you measured runtime with the 17 4/5 A cells? Is heat a problem (like the head is too hot to touch, insulation melts, smoke forms, etc.) with continuous running?

-HAK


----------



## jimjones3630

frogs3, runtime 2000mah x17 p would be about the same I think as x16p with 10 amp draw would be about 12-15min.

Have only run it couple of min. so far. See the photo in this thread with it run from bench power via kiu socket, FM3- head. See the smoke? That is from glow in the dark paint after drying for over a week. Probably, some moisture left that it burnt off.

Final mod will have ceramic refractory insulation from McMaster-car as JimmyM recommended and used on his [email protected] Yeah, heat is a big time concern. From running this bulb on the bench the reflector and everything around it got way hot.

Of note is I'm running this in a FM Elephant with huge finned 3" head that is one big heat sink.

Hope to take more pics tonight.

Jim




frogs3 said:


> Have you measured runtime with the 17 4/5 A cells? Is heat a problem (like the head is too hot to touch, insulation melts, smoke forms, etc.) with continuous running?
> 
> -HAK


----------



## LuxLuthor

LOL...speaking of the deathblaster....some kids were lighting packs of firecrackers last night at about midnight. One or two packs was understandable (I used to be a kid). When there was a 4th pack going off, with 5 minute breaks between each one...I figured it was time for 30 seconds of the DeathBlaster lighting up their little operation. They started screaming...."let's get out of here" and scampered off somewhere. My dog finally was able to stop barking.

LOL! Man that thing is incredibly bright...it looked like a police search copter was painting their entire area. My backup coming next was the Larry14K!


----------



## jimjones3630

The three contenders


[email protected] 9enloops AA nonregulated, 





[email protected] 625,freash 13,2v 1500Mah pak with HD set 12.9v 







[email protected] 458 16 4/5A's toped off direct drive. not as much differency need better equipment.


----------



## TMorita

I wonder if someone can mill me an 11" head for a Mag so I can use this:

http://ils.spectrolab.com/ILS Datasheets/SX-16 020906 REV A.pdf

Toshi


----------



## LuxLuthor

TMorita said:


> I wonder if someone can mill me an 11" head for a Mag so I can use this:
> 
> http://ils.spectrolab.com/ILS%20Datasheets/SX-16%20020906%20REV%20A.pdf
> 
> Toshi



 You'll shoot your eye out, Ralphie.


----------



## JimmyM

jimjones3630 said:


> The three contenders
> 
> 
> [email protected] 9enloops AA nonregulated,
> 
> 
> [email protected] 625,freash 13,2v 1500Mah pak with HD set 12.9v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected] 458 16 4/5A's toped off direct drive. not as much differency need better equipment.


How many volts are you getting to the bulb using 16 x 4/5As?


----------



## ar_wanton

We need to get Fivemega to make more of these 6AA body extensions and magazines.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/68347&page=1&pp=30

The 18 AA magazine would be perfect for the 64458. Get a few dummy cells and no building packs. Plus if the soft start drive become a reality, no need to build new packs.


----------



## jimjones3630

JimmyM said:


> How many volts are you getting to the bulb using 16 x 4/5As?


 
Batt. pak measured 23.5v fresh off charger, let rest for several hours will measure at the bulb tonight when home.

I wish I could capture what I see because the 458 is so brighter with more usage side spill than the 625. 

Jim


----------



## RickB

jimjones3630 said:


> I wish I could capture what I see because the 458 is so brighter with more usage side spill than the 625.
> 
> Jim



Jim,

I hate to say this, but I'm 99% sure your photo for the 458 is the identical image as for the 625. Same exact file size (88,000 bytes), same timestamp in the lower right corner, and the fc (file compare) command in Windows reports "no differences encountered."

Maybe you have another image (or images) in your camera that _do_ capture the difference between the two bulbs?

-Rick


----------



## jimjones3630

I realized the last two photos are the same lamp, 64625HXL

Below is batt. pak full charged 16 4/5 Elite 2000 charged to 23.5v.
Volts at the lamp pins 23.8v continued to sag over one min, run.


----------



## jimjones3630

RickB, Yes your correct. My goof. I noticed it yesterday and forgot to mention when I posted the lattest. 

Jim




RickB said:


> Jim,
> 
> I hate to say this, but I'm 99% sure your photo for the 458 is the identical image as for the 625. Same exact file size (88,000 bytes), same timestamp in the lower right corner, and the fc (file compare) command in Windows reports "no differences encountered."
> 
> Maybe you have another image (or images) in your camera that _do_ capture the difference between the two bulbs?
> 
> -Rick


----------



## jimjones3630

RickB said:


> Jim,
> 
> I hate to say this, but I'm 99% sure your photo for the 458 is the identical image as for the 625. Same exact file size (88,000 bytes), same timestamp in the lower right corner, and the fc (file compare) command in Windows reports "no differences encountered."
> 
> Maybe you have another image (or images) in your camera that _do_ capture the difference between the two bulbs?
> 
> -Rick


 
The timestamp helps with someheimers...That folks who can't remember some of the time

Jim


----------



## jimjones3630

This morning after the brief run of maybe a min. volts at the pins initally measured 19ish and saged down like watching second hand of a clock to 18.62v holding there.
Surely, can use at least one more batt

Jim


----------



## jimjones3630

After the last photo measuring 18.62v I checked the batt. pak for weak or loose cells finding one loose, resoldered, and now measures 19.31v at the pins on freshly charged pak. Distance to gate in background about 175yrds.


----------



## griff

Mac's 250w Torch model


----------



## jimjones3630

The 250w bulb, driven to the point I posted, in my bench testing ignited paper, dark color candy wrapper as I recall, instantly when brought to the rim of the reflector.

The 90w bulb, overdrive to the point I posted, did the same instantly. My guess is both bulbs excessed the point, accepted autoignition temperature of paper, 451F (233C).

I have no way to measure that point and am interested only as a physical measurable charactoristic.

More interesting is the fact that both of my dogs when running to me, only done this twice because I want both to continue to like me and fairly certain could cause injuy, either light momentarlly pointed at them causes them to close their eyes and turn there head away from me and the light.

Other bjective repeatable data aside from volts and amps, many here with those math skills can compute run times amp hour, etc. 

Weight and carryablity, run time and lumen output are given varibles. Runtime and lumne output are inverse polarities. One is a trade off at the expense of the other between these two bulbs.

I'm looking for max run time and max lumens that I can hold with one hand. 

So, to overdrive the 250w bulb takes 24 cells and in FM like Elephant with 120mm extension that means using 2/3A's or with 4/5A's need the deep tailcap.

To overdrive the 90w takes 17 rested cells as JimmyM reports in FM like Elephant with 120mm extension would have to place the odd 17th cell cross ways at the end of battery pak and still have to do some moding to the tailcap. With deep tailcap like FM's or others the next row of 4 parrallel cells fit.

So something like this 16,200lumen is more output but too much for me.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/164873

or 16,000 lumens in this form

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=159436


----------



## LuxLuthor

I just finished rewiring the Deathblaster 19.2V (23+V hot) using the Osram 90W 62138 & 16 x Elite 1500mAh cells because the stock Mag switch in the KIU that MadMaxabeam used was not holding up to the current. I replaced it in the side switch with one of these 14.4V 10A pushbutton switches that Mac has used in his tailcap Torch and 250W one time light he made for Eric Mack. They even make a nice soft rubber screw on buttons.


----------



## petrev

Hi Lux

Nice . . .

Where do you get those switches ? are they tactical or reverse clicky ?

Cheers Pete


----------



## Raoul_Duke

I think I am going to have to get me some of those switches aswell, as I have plans to build the 64458 in a few days. 

When you say not holding up what do you mean, I was hoping to use a stock mag c switch with Kiu socket.

I thought the death blaster used the 64458 I hadn't heard of the "Osram 90W 62138" you mentioned, and when I search for it the info I find said the 62138 is a 100W lamp?


----------



## LuxLuthor

Raoul_Duke said:


> I think I am going to have to get me some of those switches aswell, as I have plans to build the 64458 in a few days.
> 
> When you say not holding up what do you mean, I was hoping to use a stock mag c switch with Kiu socket.
> 
> I thought the death blaster used the 64458 I hadn't heard of the "Osram 90W 62138" you mentioned, and when I search for it the info I find said the 62138 is a 100W lamp?



They are like the side mag switch on-off.

Sorry, yeah I meant the 64458. bulb numbers start swirling in your head. 

Here is Judco's listing of these switches, but their part numbers are different from Digikey's.

Go to DigiKey and search for part numbers below

Here is PDF page....note the 10A Judco represented by figure 2...but there are a number of other 10A models that have different button and screw thread heights...if you search for 10A switch then filter for Judco. 

The Digikey part number for the on/off switch with shorter button/screw thread height I ordered is *546PB-ND* & the rubber screw on boot cover is *532PB-ND

*The also have a momentary on switch *541PB-ND* that is described as "Momentary N/C" and I'm not sure what that means exactly....does it start open, then you press button and it closes circuit? I'll order one to see how it works. They need to idiot proof things like this for us noobs.


----------



## petrev

LuxLuthor said:


> They are like the side mag switch on-off.
> 
> Sorry, yeah I meant the 64458. bulb numbers start swirling in your head. Here is link to it.



Thanks Lux

Just checking same as MagSwitch ie. able to flash without latching (Tactical clicky) not like Chinese torches that usually have switches that latch before they switch on. Good to have the reference - Ta

Pete


----------



## LuxLuthor

petrev said:


> Thanks Lux
> 
> Just checking same as MagSwitch ie. able to flash without latching (Tactical clicky) not like Chinese torches that usually have switches that latch before they switch on. Good to have the reference - Ta
> 
> Pete



Oh I see what you mean. Well yeah you have to depress it until it clicks before it turns on...but now that I think about the rounded switch inside the default Maglite which lets you have momentary contact before it clicks in on position....that is partially the cause of that stock Maglite style of switch not holding up to this level of current. 

It builds up carbon from arcing/heat on the thin metal Maglite contacts because there is inadequate metal contact (too much resistance) with the light "tactical click depression" to have that style work in this application.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

So how does it look installed? And are you going to do this to your maxblaster, and other high current mags?


----------



## JimmyM

Use the stock Magswitch to operate a MOSFET switch. It'll work just like a tactical clicky and carry TONS of current.
The parts for a MOSFET switch are less than $10.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Raoul_Duke said:


> So how does it look installed? And are you going to do this to your maxblaster, and other high current mags?



As you can see the 18AWG wire is long enough to go under the Magswitch to solder on top of small POS battery end spring. The other wire goes directly to bipin lead. All existing stock mag switch parts are removed, and switch can be positioned with a bit of Dremelling to fit under normal Mag switch rubber cover...so it essentially looks the same from the outside. You can also use their cone rubber cover that screws onto the switch. It is a bit smaller at the base than the Mag rubber, but you can fill the slight gap with Scotch "Mastic." Both look nice.

I'll upgrade my 15.6V MaxBlaster, and any new ones I make with these switches. It's just safer, and much less resistance this way. I'm also investigating JimmyM's Mofset, once I figure out the various options he has.


----------



## JimmyM

Thanks for the props with the "JimmyM's MOSFETs" but I'm not the one who thought of these or developed them.
I am just a HUUUUUGE fan.
I mean really... A 0.8 mOhm switch that can carry 100+A for less than 10 bucks. Why would anyone NOT want one. None of my big incans will be without one. I even squeezed one into a C-cell switch body for my AW C cell powered ROP Hi. There's less than 0.01 volt drop when on.


----------



## petrev

JimmyM said:


> Thanks for the props with the "JimmyM's MOSFETs" but I'm not the one who thought of these or developed them.
> I am just a HUUUUUGE fan.
> I mean really... A 0.8 mOhm switch that can carry 100+A for less than 10 bucks. Why would anyone NOT want one. None of my big incans will be without one. I even squeezed one into a C-cell switch body for my AW C cell powered ROP Hi. There's less than 0.01 volt drop when on.



Hi Jimmy

Any chance of a quick FET-SW How-To and a parts list ?

How are the PWM-Softstarters hopefully with max voltage trim (Duty Cycle trim) coming along ?

Cheers Pete


----------



## LuxLuthor

I'm not remembering if this mofset is just to prevent voltage spikes...as I have it confused with other things you are working on. Maybe a quick refresher on what this step accomplishes.


----------



## JimmyM

A MOSFET itself is an electronic switch. ON OFF. It takes a tiny amount of current to operate it. it only draws nano Amps. So the stock mag switch only has to carry that tiny amount of current. It's essentially a relay. Extremely low resistance. So it will actually INCREASE the current spike to the bulb because of it's super low resistance.
The PWM-Softstarter I'm working on is a little different. It still turns the MOSFET on and off, but it does it 200 times per second (197 actually). So every 0.005 seconds the MOSFET will turn on for some period of time. Say 0.001 seconds. That means that for 0.001 seconds it's ON, and the remainder of the time it's OFF. That's what's called Duty Cycle.. The soft starter will start off with very short ON periods then slowly increase the amount of time that it's ON until it's just ON all the time.

Testing is pretty much complete. I've exhaustively tested a 64625 on 13 volts using the smallest MOSFET I have. No problems at all. Once I buy some parts to build installable prototypes, I'll be testing the bigger MOSFETs. The baddest MOSFET in the works for me is the IR2804. 40V, 150+ real world amps, and <3 mOhm resistance.


----------



## petrev

Hey Jimmy

Top Banana !

Will it have the max-dutycycle-trim/adjustment capability ? Sorry to keep asking.

Cheers Pete


----------



## JimmyM

Oops. Sorry I didn't answer.
Yes it will be adjustable to be able to limit duty cycle. The potentiometers I'm looking are TINY! And as such don't last through many cycles of adjustment. It's pretty much a set once in a great while then just use the on/off switch. It's possible to use a more robust adjustment, but it will add cost and some size. I'll have a better idea of how stuff will fit once I get the prototypes built. I suppose it could be an option. Save a few bucks and just tell me that you want a softstart to 100% with no adjustment. It'll save a couple of bucks. I'm really hoping to keep cost down on these. I'm not having the boards made, I'll be doing them myself and soldering the components, etc. If I can keep the cost of an assembled board to $15 I'll be happy. $10 = even happier.



petrev said:


> Hey Jimmy
> 
> Top Banana !
> 
> Will it have the max-dutycycle-trim/adjustment capability ? Sorry to keep asking.
> 
> Cheers Pete


----------



## LuxLuthor

Jimmy, thanks for keeping it simple until I get up to speed on my electronics reading.

I'm trying to sort out how your mofset fits into the categories of PMOS, NMOS, CMOS and then figure out how it is wired, relative to the switch (parallel or series). If it has lower resistance than the switch (once mofset closes to complete circuit), and is in parallel to the switch, then it should carry more of the current, and protect the switch from arc damage I see in my Deathblaster stock mag switch.

If it is in series with the switch, then the same amount of current will still go through the stock mag switch metal parts, and it seems that the arc damage I see on my Deathblaster push button contact "donut" ring would still occur as the initial forward/backward mechanical contact is made with strips (minimal surface area at extreme edges). I can see where the other PWM soft starter would address this arc damage issue....but confused about the mofset.


----------



## petrev

Great news Jimmy

I prefer one with a more expensive robust pot as I had an AWR-HD and the pot on it broke first adjustment, sent back for fitting of new upgraded pot ! waiting . . .

I don't mind a bit extra cost for the higher spec/durability.

Can't wait
Cheers Pete


----------



## JimmyM

The MOSFET carries ALL the current and has a tiny fraction of the resistance of even a modified Magswitch. The Mag switch itself just controls the MOSFET with a nanoAmp or 2.

The MOSFETs I'm using are N-FETs (N-Channel MOSFET), they turn ON when you apply a (+) voltage and OFF when you apply a (-) or zero voltage.
The PMOS or P-FET (P-Channel MOSFET) operates just the opposite. (+) for off (-) for ON. But due to their semiconductor design they have higher resistance.

A CMOS is a design method for semiconductor chips.

The soft-start circuitry just controls the MOSFETs on or off state a lot faster than you can with the Magswitch. Other than that, the MOSFET itself is wired the same.



LuxLuthor said:


> Jimmy, thanks for keeping it simple until I get up to speed on my electronics reading.
> 
> I'm trying to sort out how your mofset fits into the categories of PMOS, NMOS, CMOS and then figure out how it is wired, relative to the switch (parallel or series). If it has lower resistance than the switch (once mofset closes to complete circuit), and is in parallel to the switch, then it should carry more of the current, and protect the switch from arc damage I see in my Deathblaster stock mag switch.
> 
> If it is in series with the switch, then the same amount of current will still go through the stock mag switch metal parts, and it seems that the arc damage I see on my Deathblaster push button contact "donut" ring would still occur as the initial forward/backward mechanical contact is made with strips (minimal surface area at extreme edges). I can see where the other PWM soft starter would address this arc damage issue....but confused about the mofset.


----------



## JimmyM

Noted.


petrev said:


> Great news Jimmy
> 
> I prefer one with a more expensive robust pot as I had an AWR-HD and the pot on it broke first adjustment, sent back for fitting of new upgraded pot ! waiting . . .
> 
> I don't mind a bit extra cost for the higher spec/durability.
> 
> Can't wait
> Cheers Pete


----------



## LuxLuthor

JimmyM said:


> The MOSFET carries ALL the current and has a tiny fraction of the resistance of even a modified Magswitch. The Mag switch itself just controls the MOSFET with a nanoAmp or 2.
> 
> The MOSFETs I'm using are N-FETs (N-Channel MOSFET), they turn ON when you apply a (+) voltage and OFF when you apply a (-) or zero voltage.
> The PMOS or P-FET (P-Channel MOSFET) operates just the opposite. (+) for off (-) for ON. But due to their semiconductor design they have higher resistance.
> 
> A CMOS is a design method for semiconductor chips.
> 
> The soft-start circuitry just controls the MOSFETs on or off state a lot faster than you can with the Magswitch. Other than that, the MOSFET itself is wired the same.



OK, so then does the stock magswitch get connected only to a circuit with 2 contact points on the mofset, and then the main Pos/Neg battery & bipin leads have another set of separate contact points on the mofset?


----------



## Timaxe

LuxLuthor said:


> OK, so then does the stock magswitch get connected only to a circuit with 2 contact points on the mofset, and then the main Pos/Neg battery & bipin leads have another set of separate contact points on the mofset?




That is the idea. There are basically 2 circuits/branches connected to the battery.

1 runs through the mag switch and the sensing side of the MOSFET. This turns the MOSFET on or off, and draws very little current. As a result, the switch is not in any danger or arcing - hardly any current goes through it.

The other is on the switching side of the MOSFET - this connects the bulb to the battery. When the tiny current runs through the sensing side, the switching side turns on and the bulb and this side handles the full current. This is very little resistance on this side, so when it is ON it is basically a direct connection to the battery.


My terms may not be quite right, but it basically does what an automotive relay does. If you pop the hood on your car, you'll find a relay box near or inside the fuse box. This part does the same thing, using a safe and tiny current from the control panel in the cab (blinkers, headlight switches, etc) to switch a large current on/off. It's much nicer/safer to do that than running those actual high-current wires through the cab to a tiny switch on your steering wheel.


----------



## LuxLuthor

OK, thanks very much. I finally understand how it is wired and works!


----------



## DMC

LuxLuther,
Have you given any thought about creating a LED version of "The most powerful Maglite mods list"? 

Thanks!
DMC


----------



## LuxLuthor

Well, TBH, relative to these listed incans "*Powerful LED*" seems like an oxymoron. 

The only LED's I am aware of that REPORTS to put out more than 500 Torch Lumens is that WiseLED Tactical light shown here. I'm not exactly sure how they determined their "1,000" lumen promotional rating. They don't say if it is "Torch Lumens" or if it was accurately measured (i.e. did they test it in an integrating sphere with accurate, calibrated light meter)....but that is all I am currently aware of, besides the Aspherical Mags which put out a hellatious hotspot. _*

Correct me if I'm wrong.*_


----------



## jimjones3630

Here is one schematic utilizing a mosfet with mag switch. I didn't quite grasp it until started looking at it on paper.

Sorry about the size of it, couldn't get it to resize down.

Jim


----------



## LuxLuthor

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks!


----------



## Bushman5

what would happen if you used a aspherical lens on this monster of light? too hot for the lens? would you have a weapon that would burn your target form a 100 + yards? I mention the aspherical becasue i have ZERO use for a flood style beam, i much prefer a pinpoint, preferably about 12" wide max......

very interested....


----------



## LuxLuthor

The problem with the aspherical lenses (including a thinner one that I recently got) is they need pretty much a "flat point" like that of an LED to put into the focal length of the lens. Problem with incan bulbs (especially huge filaments like the 64623 bulb in the Torch) is they have the tubular length of the bulb that does not give the lens a "fixed light source spot" for it to focus.

Your best bet is to move into FiveMega's 2.5" Turbo or 3" reflectors. Another truly excellent reflector that he had a while ago was a 2" Deep reflector...but also the Osram 64623 is not as good as other bulbs because of its huge, transverse filament. It is used as a projector bulb, so it is a flood by design.

I understand what you are driving at though, as I had the very same issue, and moved away from LED's as a result. Also remember that some flashaholics insist on a beam being perfectly smooth and free from any artifacts, so they use reflectors with an "orange peel" or stipple textures. That wipes out that nice hotspot you are looking for.

So many factors control what you are looking for, but you can get it. You also didn't say 12" from what distance. That is a bit unrealistic for most flashlights at any distance....they are not lasers, after all. The best example of an almost laser-beam hotspot is the $2500 Maxa Beam searchlight.


----------



## JimmyM

I was just looking at this thread just last night, thinking "Boy this was a good thread". Thanks, in part, to a lot of favorable references to me  .

I ran the numbers again for the 458. Still shows 11,000 lumens at 20.4 volts. hehe hehe hehe. Damn I gotta build me another one of those.
Maybe with plasmaman's Li-Ion Ds and PWM.


----------



## democopy

LIGHTS FOR HUNTING 
http://www.deerhuntingchat.com/viewtopic.php?p=18075


----------



## Bushman5

LuxLuthor said:


> The problem with the aspherical lenses (including a thinner one that I recently got) is they need pretty much a "flat point" like that of an LED to put into the focal length of the lens. Problem with incan bulbs (especially huge filaments like the 64623 bulb in the Torch) is they have the tubular length of the bulb that does not give the lens a "fixed light source spot" for it to focus.
> 
> Your best bet is to move into FiveMega's 2.5" Turbo or 3" reflectors. Another truly excellent reflector that he had a while ago was a 2" Deep reflector...but also the Osram 64623 is not as good as other bulbs because of its huge, transverse filament. It is used as a projector bulb, so it is a flood by design.
> 
> I understand what you are driving at though, as I had the very same issue, and moved away from LED's as a result. Also remember that some flashaholics insist on a beam being perfectly smooth and free from any artifacts, so they use reflectors with an "orange peel" or stipple textures. That wipes out that nice hotspot you are looking for.
> 
> So many factors control what you are looking for, but you can get it. You also didn't say 12" from what distance. That is a bit unrealistic for most flashlights at any distance....they are not lasers, after all. The best example of an almost laser-beam hotspot is the $2500 Maxa Beam searchlight.



Thank Lux, you are a wealth of knowledge for us newbies. :twothumbs 

i think i may have to start with an easy mod first (basic ROP) and go from there....


----------



## Action

Bushman5 said:


> i think i may have to start with an easy mod first (basic ROP) and go from there....



The ROP is a great first mod. Its one of my favorite lights. In a 2C with AW's batteries its a great combo of light and runtime.


----------



## Ra

It just amazes me what people do for 3 feet extra throw !!!

Great light !! :twothumbs



Josey said:


> JimmyM deserves some credit for his 11,000-lumen Mag458 monster-on-steroids light. The light is 3 feet long and is powered by 17 high-current 1/2D NiMH 4Ah cells. The beauty of the 90W Osram 458 bulb is that it can be overdriven to insane levels. I tried the mighty 623 bulb in this light and it popped instantly. After I bought JimmyM's light, I added FiveMega's new 3-inch head to give it more focused beam. This light will rock your socks. That's it on the left. Next to it are a 3,000-lumen 623 and an approx. 900-lumen, low-resistance 1185 regulated with AWR's Hotdriver (11.1V). Both are in FiveMega hosts that are bored for high-current GP2000 NiMH cells and both have external charging jacks.


----------



## JimmyM

Ra said:


> It just amazes me what people do for 3 feet extra throw !!!
> 
> Great light !! :twothumbs


 
3 feet of throw? Or 3 feet of Maglite?


----------



## FILIPPO

JimmyM said:


> 3 feet of throw? Or 3 feet of Maglite?


 

3 feet of maglite

it is sure really powerful and with a good runtime for that level but...

anyone know weight?


----------



## JimmyM

FILIPPO said:


> 3 feet of maglite
> 
> it is sure really powerful and with a good runtime for that level but...
> 
> anyone know weight?


You'd have to ask josey. It's his light. I never weighed it wfter I built it. He added the FM turbohead afterwards.


----------



## jimjones3630

Hey JimmyM, do you recall where got the 1/2D cells and did the FAA require prior notice of intension to use at night?

Great light canon


----------



## JimmyM

jimjones3630 said:


> Hey JimmyM, do you recall where got the 1/2D cells and did the FAA require prior notice of intension to use at night?
> 
> Great light canon


I got them from www.batterieswholesale.com model#1/2D4000HPJ
Shipping was pretty oppressive.


----------



## jimjones3630

JimmyM thanks for the info.





Above 64430substitute tungsram, 35w, 6v pushed to 9.6vbat, 7.55A, 72.5w, 46.5lumen/w, with 3xA123,= 3332blumens. Host [email protected], smo reflector. I liked these two since the dust storm hightlights the beams characteristics. 

Below 64625 100w, 12v, pushed to 12.94vbulb, 8.68A, 112.3w, 41.7lumen/w, 1500mah 13.2v batt pak, HD 12.9v, =4678blumenl. Host 2D, FM's two stage 3" reflector. 
Characteristic on the flood side 64625 but behind the fence about 50yrs can make out blue outline of house. Extra 1346lumens shows difference.

Both lights aimed between 1st and 2nd fence post on right of power pole. Fence post on left of power pole able to make out with both.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Thanks for images. You say there is a dust storm during these? Not sure if the focus is also blurred in both.

Which 64430 version is this...the Top Bulb transverse filament, or the non-Osram version that Svetila.com is selling now? Did you use AW's C driver V2 ?

Also, the C mag is using a standard 2" SMO vs. 64625 3" FM3H-2? That is part of the difference if so.


----------



## jimjones3630

Understandable how looks out of focus. We get dust devils approaching tornado speeds. Yesterday, between two one story buildings about 25yards apart watched a dust devil about 8 feet wide at the base and about 200 feet long sit there and spill stationary between those buildings. 

the auto focus was on and maybe somewhat out of focus but most of that blur is wind.

64430 substitute tungsram 56580, 35w,6v, Hungary. Has axial filament and is what Svetila.com is selling.

No driver, light direct drived and yes C mag with litho's 2" smo.



LuxLuthor said:


> Thanks for images. You say there is a dust storm during these? Not sure if the focus is also blurred in both.
> 
> Which 64430 version is this...the Top Bulb transverse filament, or the non-Osram version that Svetila.com is selling now? Did you use AW's C driver V2 ?
> 
> Also, the C mag is using a standard 2" SMO vs. 64625 3" FM3H-2? That is part of the difference if so.


----------



## LuxLuthor

OK, just finished making the *"HyperBlaster" which is the new King of the Hill of my list in post #3 here*. Uses 21 x Elite 1700 AA cells in 3 stacks of 7 cells, welded into a single pack. Using KIU, new 10A switch that I talked about earlier in this thread in side, and the 64655 250W 24V Osram bulb. Oh yeah, this is really really bright. Short bursts only.

(Thumbnails)


----------



## JimmyM

Dang, Lux! How long does that thing hold voltage on 1700s?
Would 3 wide Sub-Cs fit into an elephant body?


----------



## LuxLuthor

JimmyM said:


> Dang, Lux! How long does that thing hold voltage on 1700s?
> Would 3 wide Sub-Cs fit into an elephant body?



I'm not sure. I'm running more in bursts, and with this kind of current and heat, I'm not gonna bother doing a run test. This is like holding onto a wild animal!!! A White Elephant !!! LOL!

No, 3 Sub-C's won't fit. You can ALMOST fit 5 wide 2/3A's, but need either grooves or diffuse widening ID to get those in. It loves the 7 AA's though. Easily enough room with white shrink around original labeled Elite 1700's.


----------



## JimmyM

LuxLuthor said:


> I'm not sure. I'm running more in bursts, and with this kind of current and heat, I'm not gonna bother doing a run test. This is like holding onto a wild animal!!! A White Elephant !!! LOL!


Heat where? In the head from the bulb or from the switch?


----------



## Raoul_Duke

How does it compare to the death blaster, aka 64458?
A few pages back Jim Jones bench tested the 64458 next to the 64655 and not being able to distinguish between the two, still at this brighness it must be hard. 

Nice setup BTW.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

OH, and what does the pack measure hot of the charger?


----------



## LuxLuthor

JimmyM said:


> Heat where? In the head from the bulb or from the switch?



Mostly bulb, batteries if on for more than 45-60 sec.



Raoul_Duke said:


> How does it compare to the death blaster, aka 64458?
> A few pages back Jim Jones bench tested the 64458 next to the 64655 and not being able to distinguish between the two, still at this brighness it must be hard.
> 
> Nice setup BTW.



Side by side, it is dramatically brighter than the Deathblaster using the overdriven 90W 64458. This is very noticeable when outside shinging at a distance.



Raoul_Duke said:


> OH, and what does the pack measure hot of the charger?



30.6V :naughty:


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Cool, and calculated runtime, Or what is the current draw from the lamp.

thank for the response.

You have given me my next build idea, and I havent even completed the 458 yet.


----------



## jimjones3630

Wow Lux, those AAs are something. think flashed 64655 on bench not much over 25v. The AA sure to sag some. What is the Vbat and Vbulb?


----------



## LuxLuthor

Well I let them rest a while before using. I'm also hoping AW comes out with his D size Hotdriver. I didn't actually do the Vbulb test...so I cannot be sure how it compared to your testing, but it was WAY brighter than the 64458 Deathblaster. The Elite 1700 AA battery performance curves are on CBP's listing. I also asked Tom if he could do his own test to verify them.

I made an 2D quad 8 pack of the Titanium 1800's for Choppers, with the 9th using the 4/5SubC from that EBay source, all welded into a pack, and while conditioning about 8 hours at 0.2A, two of the cells began leaking acid. I started over with the more expensive Elite AA cells, and no problems. Also no problems with this 21 cell pack so far.

I need to get one of those selectable power supplies where you dial in the delivered voltage, and raise it to find out where this bulb flashes exactly when in a KIU. Have to find the links where Tom (SilverFox) and others mentioned them.


----------



## jimjones3630

There is no substitute for in hand outside testing.

one of the ones have heard others recommend here 

http://cgi.ebay.com/MASTECH-VARIABL...ryZ32720QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I got a varible 0-40v 0-40A used motorola analog for $50. wt. 40lb shipping was steap.


----------



## LuxLuthor

jimjones3630 said:


> There is no substitute for in hand outside testing.
> 
> one of the ones have heard others recommend here
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/MASTECH-VARIABL...ryZ32720QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> 
> I got a varible 0-40v 0-40A used motorola analog for $50. wt. 40lb shipping was steap.



That's so funny, I just was looking at that very model at this site...as 30V & 20A seemed plenty for our purposes.

However, I'm trying to figure out what the "D" model has and not that much more expensive. I'll order one of these tonight, and prefer dealing with an established company, but will never deal with the Kits USA website out of Florida again.


----------



## jimjones3630

Lux, another way to measure vBulb is with DMM can use small loops of wire around bipins and make easy to insert DMM probs. Can't wait to see beam shots.

Jim​


----------



## sb_pete

Hey all,
First, thanks Lux, that post helps alot to consolidate all the different Mag options.

2. Wouldn't an ROP high slot in between numbers 11 and 12?
Even though it is the "entry level" of the mag mods and the starting point that many of us once thought of as the end point, it seems harsh to not even include it on your list, Lux. I get not including things like a 5dmag xenon in a 2d running 6 aa NiMh ("poor man's ROP" ) or the LED upgrades, but the ROP outta be there just for comparison purposes, at leasr the ROP HI anyways. Your post makes for a great reference table to mag mods as I sit here and contemplate what I want to build next, it's be nice if the ROP were added in. 

3. Also, I've never tried it, but I've heard that if an ROP high can beat an 1185 being overdriven to 8.6V using 7 NiMh AAs and a dummy cell in a quad bored 2D. Any confirmation or denial on this one? Heck, I've even heard that the difference between a Mag85 and an ROP HI is a crapshoot anyways.


thanks again all,
-Pete


----------



## LuxLuthor

Pete,

Literally the only reason I don't have the ROP on my list is I never had or made one....and I wanted to be able to vouch for the ones on my list if possible, or at least be able to see the bulb I mentioned on another platform. 

I never really intended my #3 post to be an "absolute" all inclusion and updated list, but when people like you mention other ones, sometimes I'll get one of those setups and test it side by side.

What specific bulb(s) are you using in your ROP high? Maybe I will get some of them and see.


----------



## sb_pete

Lux,
thanks for the quick reply. My ROP high is pretty weak sauce at the moment (cheap battery holders, but I just ordered some FM ones to remedy that).

Anyways, Its just a simple Pelican 3854 bulb pack (2 bulbs) using the High Output bulb dropped into a standard M*g switch and running at 7.2V from 6 AA NiMh cells.

On another note, I think Post #3 outta be stickied for everyone just getting into this stuff. I learned more from that post than from literally days of looking through CPF:candle: (given I'm easily distracted though).

Thanks again
-Pete


----------



## Ledean

LuxLuthor said:


> OK, just finished making the *"HyperBlaster" which is the new King of the Hill of my list in post #3 here*. Uses 21 x Elite 1700 AA cells in 3 stacks of 7 cells, welded into a single pack. Using KIU, new 10A switch that I talked about earlier in this thread in side, and the 64655 250W 24V Osram bulb. Oh yeah, this is really really bright. Short bursts only.
> 
> (Thumbnails)



Well done Lux . :twothumbsThat is a great mod there.
Wow that flashlight must be freaking bright.
How long is a short burst ?


----------



## LuxLuthor

Ledean said:


> Well done Lux . :twothumbsThat is a great mod there.
> Wow that flashlight must be freaking bright.
> How long is a short burst ?



I'll put it this way....I DON'T want to turn it off, but its so damn bright you don't want burn your neighbor's house down. I'm waiting on my 30V 20A Mastech power supply to see how this bulb actually behaves, and other bulbs since I will want to know where to set AW's new Hotdrvier Vbulb to optimze it.


----------



## Action

LuxLuthor said:


> I'll put it this way....I DON'T want to turn it off, but its so damn bright you don't want burn your neighbor's house down. I'm waiting on my 30V 20A Mastech power supply to see how this bulb actually behaves, and other bulbs since I will want to know where to set AW's new Hotdrvier Vbulb to optimze it.



I thought that AW's Hotdriver will be limited to under 200W (supposedly due to the limitation of the Kiu mount). Is there something that I missed?


----------



## LuxLuthor

Action said:


> I thought that AW's Hotdriver will be limited to under 200W (supposedly due to the limitation of the Kiu mount). Is there something that I missed?



That is a conservative limit based on KIU tolerances for heat, however, this is what Fiberfrax is for. In addition, one knows in lights like this not to let excessive heat build up.


----------



## JimmyM

LuxLuthor said:


> That is a conservative limit based on KIU tolerances for heat, however, this is what Fiberfrax is for. In addition, one knows in lights like this not to let excessive heat build up.


 
What kind of fiberfrax do you use? I've got Alumina refractory insulation from McMaster-Carr that's good to 2300F. I've thought that a denser felt type might be better for use as a ring around the KIU base.


----------



## jimjones3630

Interesting to find out about firbermax. I still using some ceramic insulation from Jimmy. Getting low now and will pick something up.

Taking a 4D host, one 87mm extension overall lenght less than 6D. 18 1/4vs 19 1/2inch. Stuff with 5 emolis 3.7v nominal, 4.2v freshly off charger. Add 90w 64458s yeilds 20.0vbat, 18.2vbulb. Will try hot off the charger next time. 

Compaired to bench testing posted here earlier it really is hard to put into words except is the brightest light I personally have seen.







starting to notice some dimming. Pic taken after about 4-5min intermitten runtime. 17.59vbat down from 20.0v should have taken the pic first couldn't help lighting up the neighborhood first.


----------



## LuxLuthor

I got a roll of the 1/8" thick FiberFrax from AircraftSpruce.com here. It is soft, and feels like using a roll of felt cloth. You can cut it with any scissors, as it stays intact and doesn't put out any loose fibers when using. Very nice and very cheap. One of the "old timers" here mentioned it in some thread.

I'm looking forward to getting my 30V 20A Mastech linear PS so I can see exact voltages and amps for some of these bulbs...mainly in terms of knowing what Vbulb to request from AW's new D regulated HD's.

I'll likely test a bunch of bulbs in one of his unregulated D HD's to take into account the other resistance/heat features...but for sure the 64458 is an awsome bulb.


----------



## petrev

JimJones said:


> . . . Taking a 5D host, one 87mm extension overall lenght less than 6D. 18 1/4vs 19 1/2inch. Stuff with 5 emolis 3.7v nominal, 4.2v freshly off charger. Add 90w 64458s yeilds 20.0vbat, 18.2vbulb. Will try hot off the charger next time.
> . . .


 
Hi Jim (and Lux)

I've got a couple of 64458s and some E-Molis coming soon and this is all really very interesting. 

One thing - I think you may be meaning a Mag*4D* +87mm for your 5x E-Molis ? Also are you using a no/modified-short-spring tailcap ?

I have recently been trying out an IRC50 with 6xA123 cells in a 6D+37mm - (can't wait for more IRC65s to arrive to try them ! ! !)

The IRC50 6xA123 runs Vbulb 19.7V @5.2A (at least initially) and is really quite a bit brighter than an IRC50 run from 5x AW-CLions (18.8V @5.1A)
AWR-Hotrater gives :
IRC50 as about 5400 B-Lumens and 3500 T-Lumens @Just over 100W.
IRC65 as about 7200 B-Lumens and 4600 T-Lumens @Just over 130W

The 6x A123 should also be quite happy to drive the IRC65 while that would be a bit much for the CLions !

Don't know quite where this would put the IRC bulbs in *The Lux List *? 

:candle:

Cheers Pete

.


----------



## jimjones3630

Pete thanks for pointing that out. Yes is a 4D with 87mm extention.
Tailcap only few mm short of touching last battery. Use copper braid, 1/2 inch wide stuff folded once. Lots of room around battery so leave cardboard on the cells. 

After 4-5 min intermitten run head was hot, not too hot to touch but getting there. Body warm down to switch. and took 15 min to cool off. 

Reluctant to say but think it is funny. One way I "test" my mods lumens, more lumens produce more heat, and don't do this at home folks, place palm of my hand over window and turn on, start counting 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand... Did not even get the switch fully depressed lacking on with half of one said I jerked my hand away and keep ice on it for 20min.

Northern Lights tailcap mod is so low resistance lights are noticable brighter so am converting all my lights over.

A123s are physically lighter weight and wonderful in 3D, or 4C feels like carrying no battery.

Emolis as Lux pointed out use Li Po charging program and 3.3v nominal, 4.2v fresh charge. Emoli shrink the form fact so much.

Pete you think 5 emoli instead of 6 A123 run IRC50? Could lose the extention, think 5 would fit in 6D. Emolis do sag some 20.0vbat 18.2vbulb with load of 64458. Think will try a 50w tonight with fresh pak. 

Both are "flahlight friendly" at the power levels we use and rates of charging faster for both than NI Mh , and older Li chemistry. A123 Charge at 4C and up to 60A discharge , Emoli Charge 3C and up to30A discharge. Like those 15min charges.



petrev said:


> Hi Jim (and Lux)
> 
> I've got a couple of 64458s and some E-Molis coming soon and this is all really very interesting.
> 
> One thing - I think you may be meaning a Mag*4D* +87mm for your 5x E-Molis ? Also are you using a no/modified-short-spring tailcap ?
> 
> I have recently been trying out an IRC50 with 6xA123 cells in a 6D+37mm - (can't wait for more IRC65s to arrive to try them ! ! !)
> 
> The IRC50 6xA123 runs Vbulb 19.7V @5.2A (at least initially) and is really quite a bit brighter than an IRC50 run from 5x AW-CLions (18.8V @5.1A)
> AWR-Hotrater gives :
> IRC50 as about 5400 B-Lumens and 3500 T-Lumens @Just over 100W.
> IRC65 as about 7200 B-Lumens and 4600 T-Lumens @Just over 130W
> 
> The 6x A123 should also be quite happy to drive the IRC65 while that would be a bit much for the CLions !
> 
> Don't know quite where this would put the IRC bulbs in *The Lux List *?
> 
> :candle:
> 
> Cheers Pete
> 
> .


----------



## petrev

Hi Jim

Ouch - Lots of Hot-Lumens ! ! ! Need to get some of that FiberFrax felt in my Mag heads.

Had forgotten the NorthernLights "spring braid" method - great method.

My E-Molis are inbound pending postal stuff and me getting them out of the V28 pack !

I think 5 will probably drive the IRC50 or IRC65 and I will test as soon as I can . . . 

You are so right - A123s or E-Moli in a DMag feel much better in the hand than standard ( No going back to 6x D-NiMh) 
Prefer the feel of a CMag but need to find a 7C for some serious experimenting ! Shame have to remove cardboard to fit inside a CMag !

Looking forward to more of your results

Cheers 
Pete

ps. Forgot to say - Charging A123s at 10A with my FMA-6S is a joy (and hopefully the E-Moli will be similarly rapid.)



jimjones3630 said:


> Pete thanks for pointing that out. Yes is a 4D with 87mm extention.
> Tailcap only few mm short of touching last battery. Use copper braid, 1/2 inch wide stuff folded once. Lots of room around battery so leave cardboard on the cells.
> 
> After 4-5 min intermitten run head was hot, not too hot to touch but getting there. Body warm down to switch. and took 15 min to cool off.
> 
> Reluctant to say but think it is funny. One way I "test" my mods lumens, more lumens produce more heat, and don't do this at home folks, place palm of my hand over window and turn on, start counting 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand... Did not even get the switch fully depressed lacking on with half of one said I jerked my hand away and keep ice on it for 20min.
> 
> Northern Lights tailcap mod is so low resistance lights are noticable brighter so am converting all my lights over.
> 
> A123s are physically lighter weight and wonderful in 3D, or 4C feels like carrying no battery.
> 
> Emolis as Lux pointed out use Li Po charging program and 3.3v nominal, 4.2v fresh charge. Emoli shrink the form fact so much.
> 
> Pete you think 5 emoli instead of 6 A123 run IRC50? Could lose the extention, think 5 would fit in 6D. Emolis do sag some 20.0vbat 18.2vbulb with load of 64458. Think will try a 50w tonight with fresh pak.
> 
> Both are "flahlight friendly" at the power levels we use and rates of charging faster for both than NI Mh , and older Li chemistry. A123 Charge at 4C and up to 60A discharge , Emoli Charge 3C and up to30A discharge. Like those 15min charges.


----------



## jimjones3630

petrev, 4 A123 fit 5C mag with honing out some, 62138 100w look good at 14.4, 4x3.6v. 4x3.3=13.2v nominal it still is white white.

4 emoil fit 5c with AW C cell extender and deep tailcap. 4x3.7=14.8v nominal, 4x4.2=16.8v fresh charge. Higher voltage greater than 16v 64623 really bright and starts looking white from it's usual yellowish color.

Getting most volts to pins with the least resistance pays off. Found the heaver copper braid the brighter bulb burns. Got one of the old car battery braided grounds. 3/4 inch wide works great.


----------



## petrev

Thanks Jim,

Even more to think about . . .

Do you have a link for the deep tailcap ? 

Cheers 
Pete


----------



## LuxLuthor

jimjones3630 said:


> A123s are physically lighter weight and wonderful in 3D, or 4C feels like carrying no battery.
> 
> Emolis as Lux pointed out use Li Po charging program and 3.3v nominal, 4.2v fresh charge. Emoli shrink the form fact so much.



Couple of minor corrections. 

*Emoli *cells mostly found in Milwaukee V28 battery packs are *3.7 nominal*, and charge up to 4.2V hot, providing *3000mAh*. It is this voltage standard that allows them to be charged with standard Li-Ion/LiPo chargers. 

Emoli are 26.5 x 70mm in their cardboard outer generic form, and 26mm if cardboard liner removed. They are 0.5mm too large to fit in a C mag, unless the C Mag is enlarged with either a brake hone, or lathe. 

The Emoli Mfg's Max Continuous Discharge Rate is 20A, but the first link has tested them to find Max Tested Continuous Discharge Rate of 45A (15C). Either discharge rate is adequate for flashlights.

*A123* are the *3.3V nominal*, and require a specific A123 capable charger because of this different voltage. A123's are 25.85 x 65mm, their outer shell is not as heavy duty as Emoli, but they will fit in a C Mag. While they have higher rated current output/charging rates, they only have *2300mAh capacity*.


----------



## LuxLuthor

petrev said:


> I think 5 will probably drive the IRC50 or IRC65 and I will test as soon as I can . . .



Oh yeah, these IRC's are on my list to test once I get the Mastech HY3020-D next week. Also gonna do a side by side outside shot of the Osram 64430 and GE bulb that Svetila is selling....as just a larger filament and higher voltage tolerance does not necessarily mean a brighter/nicer beam output.





As AWR has said these are the "Crown Jewels" of our incan bulb selections. The IRC allows the much higher Lumen/Watt, and everything about them...their outer envelope shape, filament, color, overdriving, life just reeks with potential to be abused. :naughty:


----------



## jimjones3630

Hey Petrev here a link for deep tailcap
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=162726

Hmm... from dealer
dimensions:
>
> a123
> 26mm diameter; 66.5mm length
>
> emoli
> 26mm diameter; 70mm length

that's about what they mic out for me.

I've found need to open up C Mag diameter some for either to fit, use kapton tape makes easier, less honing or boring whatever you happen to use. 

Have extra A123s and Emolis going to put in B/S/T
shot below 20.67vbat, 18.6vbulb. one reason for 2v difference is the cells are single cells not soldered






Jim


----------



## LuxLuthor

jimjones3630 said:


> Hey Petrev here a link for deep tailcap
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=162726
> 
> Hmm... from dealer
> dimensions:
> >
> > a123
> > 26mm diameter; 66.5mm length
> >
> > emoli
> > 26mm diameter; 70mm length



JJ, the *25.85mm spec I got was from A123's own website pdf link above*, but that may be before a label is put on them. 

The C Li-Ions measure 25.6mm with my caliper, and the ID of the C Mag is about 25.85mm, so once you hit 26mm (which a label or Kapton would add to an A123), you would need to ream out the C Mag...so I believe your observation. 

I have not used or purchased any A123's yet, because of their lower mAh, special charger requirement, and the C rate of Emoli is more than enough for any of our flashlights. However, I like my Hyperion 1210i so much, I ordered a second one recently. The newer models have the new firmware which charges the A123 cells....so I may get some of them since they are more available than the Emolis...their shorter length will fit more lights. :wave:


----------



## jimjones3630

Both A123 and Emoli have so little mention, the few threads about either are from posters on this thread.

A123 can be run dry and recover that is unheard of in Li batteries doing away with need for protection circuits. That's leading edge technology.

In the race to the smallest, brightest, and longest run times the old saying"pick any two of the above is possible" is being revisied. Wasn't a 4C 100w light out of the possible a year ago?


----------



## petrev

LuxLuthor said:


> JJ, the *25.85mm spec I got was from A123's own website pdf link above*, but that may be before a label is put on them.
> 
> The C Li-Ions measure 25.6mm with my caliper, and the ID of the C Mag is about 25.85mm, so once you hit 26mm (which a label or Kapton would add to an A123), you would need to ream out the C Mag...so I believe your observation.
> 
> I have not used or purchased any A123's yet, because of their lower mAh, special charger requirement, and the C rate of Emoli is more than enough for any of our flashlights. However, I like my Hyperion 1210i so much, I ordered a second one recently. The newer models have the new firmware which charges the A123 cells....so I may get some of them since they are more available than the Emolis...their shorter length will fit more lights. :wave:


 
Hi Lux 

My measurements (mm)

Old C-Mag . . *26.30*
New C-Mag . *26.24*

AW Clion . . . *25.62*

A123 26650 . *26.91* Cardboard-Sleeve (Too Big for Mag-C)

A123 26650 . *25.91* *Bare*
A123 26650 . *25.99* Parcel Tape (Brown) Fits
A123 26650 . *26.21* Parcel Tape (multi Layer) Fits very snugly


Awaiting arrival of E-Moli Cells

*UPDATE :- E-Moli Arrived*

E-Moli 26700 . *26.60* Cardboard-Sleeve (Too Big for Mag-C)

E-Moli 26700 . *26.10 Bare*
E-Moli 26700 . *26.24 *Parcel Tape (Brown) Fits Old-C Snugly 
Fits New-C Exactly/*Just too big* depending on tolerences ?



Cheers 
Pete

ps.

NOTE: A123 Cells are reversed polarity . . . *Can is +ve *and* Pip is -ve*
E-Moli data sheet


----------



## jimjones3630

I have recharged A123 using Li Mn program, can use Li Io or Li Po program adjusting the number of cells down ward accordingly. 5 A123 would have total charged voltage of 3.6x5=18v. 4.2x4=16.8v. about 1 volt short between 5 batteries. It is undercharged and that usually prolongs Li cell life as measured by increased number of recharging cycles.

Addressing the need for balancing of A123 and Emoli paks I use either 2 or 3 cell soldered paks or single cells. 3s cell sticks might get unbalanced but have doubts.

Using single cells down side is more resistance in the circuit. Last night measured 2v difference between vbat vbulb. That's life a series of compromises. Wonder could that come in parallel as well?


----------



## badinstincts

pretty interesting how you guys are still using OLD batteries. when lipos now provide 25C constant... 22.2V pack at 2000mah would allow you to run it up to 50A constant = over 1000Watts. Just find me a 1000W light bulb already! The flashlight would be sooo small too, just need to keep the heat from the bulb away from the rest of the unit.. ceramic, or something... The battery would only cost me $130...
But hey, 250 watts seems fun. Would last a good 30 minutes on lipos per charge.


----------



## JimmyM

How well can you fit them into a 33mm ROUND Mag tube?


----------



## LuxLuthor

badinstincts said:


> pretty interesting how you guys are still using OLD batteries. when lipos now provide 25C constant... 22.2V pack at 2000mah would allow you to run it up to 50A constant = over 1000Watts. Just find me a 1000W light bulb already! The flashlight would be sooo small too, just need to keep the heat from the bulb away from the rest of the unit.. ceramic, or something... The battery would only cost me $130...
> But hey, 250 watts seems fun. Would last a good 30 minutes on lipos per charge.



Yeah, believe me we have been members of RC Groups forums for quite a while, and the two risks with LiPo are damaging their soft makeup while trying to put them into flashlights, more difficulty with heat dissapation, holding the potentially explosive in a sealed metal flashlight tube in your hand (vs. flying it or driving it as RC Groups), and the most obvious issue...they don't fit in flashlight tubes.

As A123 and Emolis have come online, we have started using them...but their (A123) low voltage ruining the cell is something we address with Li-Ions (Cobalt) by having protection circuits added to them.


----------



## jimjones3630

Hi Jimmy,

supposed 33mm OD. the old ones-no c in serial #- and new ones have around here 31.74mm is about it. Don't have any closer to 33mm.

Either A123 or emoli are about the same OD 25.88mm with Kapton 26.37mm with shrink wrap. for A123, 26.05mm Emoli.

What is your ID?

64458 in 4D with extension leaves plenty room for insulation.




JimmyM said:


> How well can you fit them into a 33mm ROUND Mag tube?


----------



## LuxLuthor

jimjones3630 said:


> Hi Jimmy,
> 
> supposed 33mm OD. the old ones-no c in serial #- and new ones have around here 31.74mm is about it. Don't have any closer to 33mm.
> 
> Either A123 or emoli are about the same OD 25.88mm with Kapton 26.37mm with shrink wrap. for A123, 26.05mm Emoli.
> 
> What is your ID?
> 
> 64458 in 4D with extension leaves plenty room for insulation.



JJ, if he is indeed only talking about A123's there is still the limiit on length of light, and needing to bore a Mag C. I have used Emolis in my D Mag by cutting a PVC 1.25" lengthwise as a spacer/holding tube.


----------



## JimmyM

jimjones3630 said:


> Hi Jimmy,
> 
> supposed 33mm OD. the old ones-no c in serial #- and new ones have around here 31.74mm is about it. Don't have any closer to 33mm.
> 
> Either A123 or emoli are about the same OD 25.88mm with Kapton 26.37mm with shrink wrap. for A123, 26.05mm Emoli.
> 
> What is your ID?
> 
> 64458 in 4D with extension leaves plenty room for insulation.


I meant the 33mm ID of the D mag body.


----------



## jimjones3630

Jimmy absolutely, lots of room in D mag.


----------



## jimjones3630

Just ran NTC with 5761, 2xemolis 8.02vbat., 6.8vbulb. Wooo Hooo.
Thanks NL


----------



## JimmyM

jimjones3630 said:


> Jimmy absolutely, lots of room in D mag.


Not plenty of room for LiPo prismatic cells. You might be able to squeeze 4 24mm wide x 6mm thick cells into a D mag body. They'll fit in a quad bore. I'm not sure what the standard cell dimensions are.


----------



## jimjones3630

thought asking about cells in prior discussion.




JimmyM said:


> Not plenty of room for LiPo prismatic cells. You might be able to squeeze 4 24mm wide x 6mm thick cells into a D mag body. They'll fit in a quad bore. I'm not sure what the standard cell dimensions are.


----------



## LuxLuthor

jimjones3630 said:


> Just ran NTC with 5761, 2xemolis 8.02vbat., 6.8vbulb. Wooo Hooo.
> Thanks NL



JJ, why is there that 1.4V delta?


----------



## jimjones3630

LL these batteries were charged 2 days ago and used some. Didn't want fresh hot cells will try that tomorrow. The difference is also a product of the NTC function. On a good day I have to rethink how it works and can't really cogently explain now.

Basically, reduces voltage on start up providing a slow start, and then has a residual effect limiting bulb voltage.

post 133 and onward
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/168564&page=5

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2185551#post2185551


LuxLuthor said:


> JJ, why is there that 1.4V delta?


----------



## KingGlamis

Thanks to all for the great info in this thread. Ordered my bi-pin socket for my Mag a few days ago and can't wait to experiment with it.


----------



## LuxLuthor

KingGlamis said:


> Thanks to all for the great info in this thread. Ordered my bi-pin socket for my Mag a few days ago and can't wait to experiment with it.



LOL! I just saw your sig line. 

Also, check the Mad Scientist experimenting I'm planning on doing to get some "real world" standardized data, beyond the AWR Hotrater that we all rely on too much. That's in part why I started that as a separate thread. This one is getting pretty long and technical for the newer user.


----------



## jimjones3630

Yes, have learned alot from others in this thread. Thanks to all.

Bi-pin sockets offer a drop in upgrade solution. When the bi-pin is permanently fixed by soldered light ground to bi-pin ground and switch upper contact pos to bi-pin pos then it is super low resistance on par or exceeding kiu socket.



KingGlamis said:


> Thanks to all for the great info in this thread. Ordered my bi-pin socket for my Mag a few days ago and can't wait to experiment with it.


----------



## cat

jimjones3630 said:


> Taking a 4D host, one 87mm extension overall lenght less than 6D. 18 1/4vs 19 1/2inch. Stuff with 5 emolis 3.7v nominal, 4.2v freshly off charger. Add 90w 64458s yeilds 20.0vbat, 18.2vbulb. Will try hot off the charger next time.
> 
> Compaired to bench testing posted here earlier it really is hard to put into words except is the brightest light I personally have seen.



 :thumbsup: 


How can I make one like that?  Without machining/fabricating? I can get a 4D from my friend. I'd prefer the size of a 3D, but...maybe... well, I can get a 4D cheaply, so...what parts do I need to get something like that?  
And where to get them? 

I've been reading Maglite mod threads for days and nights, and I'm not sure I'm really getting anywhere. The other beamshot I saw that looked ok to me, for what I want - very floody, up to about 20-30 yards, was one with a .... *Osram Decostar IRC on Mag 5D (Yellowbie) 
*https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1549759&postcount=1
*Help!* 

PS: I can get machining done, like shortening the body tube, if necessary.


----------



## jimjones3630

Hi Cat,

44mm from tailcap screw down to threads with out head. So don't know anyone with 87mm Dmag extention. If can get a 6 D and have cut down and threaded might be cheaper considering cost to mail. IRC bulb need 17 to 18v to really shine. couple days ago put a 50w in this mod with 5 emoli cells and it was yellow beam and not as bright or white white color as 64558 90w ran in same mod. 

The rest Kiu or bi-pin?
there are people who favor one or the other and the debate hasn't settled yet from what I can tell.

Aluminium reflector fixed or cammed, smo or ???
lens USL or Boro or ??
Emolis x5
tailcap fix 
google CPF to find dealer for these parts, don't know of anyone having all thus saving on shipping costs.
have the fun of working it out yourself.



cat said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> How can I make one like that?  Without machining/fabricating? I can get a 4D from my friend. I'd prefer the size of a 3D, but...maybe... well, I can get a 4D cheaply, so...what parts do I need to get something like that?
> And where to get them?
> 
> I've been reading Maglite mod threads for days and nights, and I'm not sure I'm really getting anywhere. The other beamshot I saw that looked ok to me, for what I want - very floody, up to about 20-30 yards, was one with a .... *Osram Decostar IRC on Mag 5D (Yellowbie) *
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1549759&postcount=1
> *Help!*
> 
> PS: I can get machining done, like shortening the body tube, if necessary.


----------



## petrev

jimjones3630 said:


> Hi Cat,
> 
> 44mm from tailcap screw down to threads with out head. So don't know anyone with 87mm Dmag extention. If can get a 6 D and have cut down and threaded might be cheaper considering cost to mail. IRC bulb need 17 to 18v to really shine. couple days ago put a 50w in this mod with 5 emoli cells and it was yellow beam and not as bright or white white color as 64558 90w ran in same mod.
> 
> . . . EDIT . . . .


 
Hi Jim et al,

Currently trying the IRC50 with 6x A123 cells in a 6D+37mm - Long but Light.

Short Runtime on the A123 cells - getting 

20.1 Vbatt O/C 
19.2 Vbulb 
5.2 A DirectDrive

Very bright and white. The IRC lamps tend to be quite floody. The FM-3" heads give some more spot but with plenty of spill.

Noticeably brighter and whiter than C-Lions that were still really rather nice but must be running at their limit !

Short Runtime on C-Lions . . .

17.7 Vbulb
4.94 A DD

AW-CDriver

17.2 Vbulb (AC+DC)
4.9 A (AC+DC)

Looking forward to getting some more IRC65s and some 64458s to try with the A123s and some E-Molis that should be arriving soon.

Cheers Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

Pete 20.1vbulb wow! Noticed get the same amount of voltage reduction with favorite NTC or AW's driver. 6x3.3v 19.8v nominal, looks like maxed out. 6x3.7v(emoli)22.2vbat, your getting about 1v sag in your circuit. 21.2vbulb may not instan-flash 64458. One NTC might be too much. 

2xemoli with NTC, 5761 last night got 8.17vbat, 6.9vbulb. That why think might be too much 

Exciting stuff!

Jim



petrev said:


> Hi Jim et al,
> 
> Currently trying the IRC50 with 6x A123 cells in a 6D+37mm - Long but Light.
> 
> Short Runtime on the A123 cells - getting
> 
> 20.1 Vbatt O/C
> 19.2 Vbulb
> 5.2 A DirectDrive
> 
> Very bright and white. The IRC lamps tend to be quite floody. The FM-3" heads give some more spot but with plenty of spill.
> 
> Noticeably brighter and whiter than C-Lions that were still really rather nice but must be running at their limit !
> 
> Short Runtime on C-Lions . . .
> 
> 17.7 Vbulb
> 4.94 A DD
> 
> AW-CDriver
> 
> 17.2 Vbulb (AC+DC)
> 4.9 A (AC+DC)
> 
> Looking forward to getting some more IRC65s and some 64458s to try with the A123s and some E-Molis that should be arriving soon.
> 
> Cheers Pete


----------



## petrev

Hi Jim,



> 20.1 Vbatt *O/C*
> *19.2 Vbulb *
> 5.2 A DirectDrive



Sorry Jim that's 20.1V Open Circuit ! Only 19.2Vbulb.
Haven't got an easy method of getting the drop through the switch and tailspring etc. so that is the battery sag too. Try to work out a method tom. maybe !

Still - not too much sag on the A123 cells.

Looking forward to getting the 64458s and the E-Molis for some proper testing, and then all the new drivers that hopefully will be along soon(ish)

Not sure how the standard Mag switch will hold up with the 64458s ? Must remember to be careful . . .

Cheers Pete

ps. The JimmyM SS with max trim may be just the ticket for 6x E-Moli ! ! !



jimjones3630 said:


> Pete 20.1vbulb wow! Noticed get the same amount of voltage reduction with favorite NTC or AW's driver. 6x3.3v 19.8v nominal, looks like maxed out. 6x3.7v(emoli)22.2vbat, your getting about 1v sag in your circuit. 21.2vbulb may not instan-flash 64458. One NTC might be too much.
> 
> 2xemoli with NTC, 5761 last night got 8.17vbat, 6.9vbulb. That why think might be too much
> 
> Exciting stuff!
> 
> Jim


----------



## JimmyM

A properly modded Mag switch is good for ~10 amps (So I'm told). The 64458 is pulling ~12 amps when driven hard. I don't think that switch is going to last too long.
I'd consider some type of MOSFET modified switch. They can handle the amps, no problem.



petrev said:


> Not sure how the standard Mag switch will hold up with the 64458s ? Must remember to be careful . . .
> 
> Cheers Pete


----------



## petrev

JimmyM said:


> A properly modded Mag switch is good for ~10 amps (So I'm told). The 64458 is pulling ~12 amps when driven hard. I don't think that switch is going to last too long.
> I'd consider some type of MOSFET modified switch. They can handle the amps, no problem.



Thanks Jimmy,

A timely warning 
:candle:


----------



## jimjones3630

Pete sorry misread. Looking forward to see those measurements with Emolis. Don't recall reading are your A123s in factor weld configuration or separated? For the switch wired kiu pos to upper contact, soldered kiu neg to usual ground location using the "Jimmy strap" think it has been called. Solder the contact ring between upper and lower switch contacts. Then solder piece of copper plate onto the bottom of switch contact to batteries with patch between bottom switch contact and copper plate.

In another thread is discussion on which material to use in electrical contacts with copper of course having the highest conductivity and the down side of corrosion. Silicon spray to copper will retard corrosion some how much who knows.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

jimjones3630 said:


> Pete 20.1vbulb wow! Noticed get the same amount of voltage reduction with favorite NTC or AW's driver. 6x3.3v 19.8v nominal, looks like maxed out. 6x3.7v(emoli)22.2vbat, your getting about 1v sag in your circuit. 21.2vbulb may not instan-flash 64458. One NTC might be too much.
> 
> 2xemoli with NTC, 5761 last night got 8.17vbat, 6.9vbulb. That why think might be too much
> 
> Exciting stuff!
> 
> 
> 
> Jim



Certanly is Exciting stuff!

There is so much good info in this thread, Driving Hotwires for reasonable runtimes on Emoli has brought us a long way. Glad I jumped on them a while back.

I have been sitting reading lots but been to busy to post much on this recently.

However:

Fired up my first 64458 tonight in a 6D with 5 Emoli .

19.3V on the 5 resting cells, and 18V on the pin to tailcap whilst running. 9.8A

The cells were brand new, and read 3.87V on them, They haven't been charged yet.

the output was comparable, and may be arguably brighter, than my 64623 in a 6C on 4 Emoli.

That was running on a 4 x Emoli 14.4 V resting pack, 14V from the bulb pin to the tailcap. 9.3A. Did notice an initial spike of 12+A.

these 4 cells have been used and are reading 3.82V now.

I was hoping for a bit more from the 458 on 18V, compared to the 6C x 4 emoli 64623 it wasnt all that, but as Jim mentioned the 64623 realy does shine on 4 Emoli, I have even insta flashed one, on a fresh~ish pack, and the cells weren't even quite at 16.8V altogether ( around 16.6V)

But I will charge the cells tomorrow, and have fully charged comparison.

Good Idea on the 5C with extras to do the 4 Emoli, its a grat platform, and all the bits are still obtainable, I managed to get the emoli's in the C's without boring, and very thin tape, but its snug.

I have 2 more 6C's to experiment with, and near all the lamps osram do from 20W up to 100W, I'd like to try a good balance in at least one build to be able to manage the heat for the full length of the packs runtime.

I'm certanly looking forward to Lux Luthor testing the lamps, as I now think most of the 20W to 90 W lamps need in the region of 5 Emoli, some maybee 6.

Hopefully the IRC lamps realy like 6 Emoli 

I had been thinking for a long time of the 458 in one of my 7C's, which I will no doubt do;

But now wonder if a 458 in a 6D and 37mm extention and 6 emoli's can be tamed by JimmyM, If he will build a max trim pot into his switch i'm going to need, as I think I will blow this mag switch soon on 12A.

Still, I very much doubt that will stop me from putting 7 Emoli in a 6D with both the 37mm & the 73mm extentions on the end to try with the 64655, and hope it likes the initial Kick up the behind. That lamp only has 50Hrs on it, so i'm guessing ita already being driven very hard at 24V.


----------



## jimjones3630

64655 notes flashed just over 26v and this 24v bulb is horizontal filament. Interesting to see side by side with 4458. 

of late, 3xemoil in 4C with 62138 100w is stunning bright white. If going to 4C form might as well go for the most lumens. 11.85vbulb 62138= 1743 tlumens out the window. 64430 9.28vbulb =1937 tlumens out the window. 

62138 looks to me whiter and more pleasing maybe it's the axial filament but goes against the numbers giving up almost 200lumen to 64430.


----------



## jimjones3630

James, after reading your post hooked up 64623 on 4xemolis, had been awhile since lighted one up, it is stunning above 16v. Think I'll use it for rest of the week.


----------



## petrev

Hi Lux 

Updated Measurements with E-Moli cells

My measurements (mm)

Old C-Mag . . *26.30*
New C-Mag . *26.24*

AW Clion . . . *25.62*

*A123 *26650 . *26.91* Cardboard-Sleeve (Too Big for Mag-C)

A123 26650 . *25.91* *Bare*
A123 26650 . *25.99* Parcel Tape (Brown) Fits
A123 26650 . *26.21* Parcel Tape (multi Layer) Fits very snugly

*UPDATE :-* E-Moli Arrived

*E-Moli* 26700 . *26.60* Cardboard-Sleeve (Too Big for Mag-C)

E-Moli 26700 . *26.10 Bare*
E-Moli 26700 . *26.24 *Parcel Tape (Brown) Fits Old-C Snugly 
Fits New-C Exactly/*Just too big* depending on tolerences ?



Cheers 
Pete

ps.

NOTE: A123 Cells are reversed polarity . . . *Can is +ve *and* Pip is -ve*
E-Moli data sheet


----------



## JimmyM

Raoul_Duke said:


> But now wonder if a 458 in a 6D and 37mm extention and 6 emoli's can be tamed by JimmyM, If he will build a max trim pot into his switch i'm going to need, as I think I will blow this mag switch soon on 12A.


I'll be using the 40V MOSFET in all of the soft-starters, so voltage won't be an issue. Also, there will be a trim pot onboard to adjust the max-duty cycle. Parts are ordered and I'll start building as soon as I get them. I do have to order more of the big MOSFETs though. (No pre-orders, please) Once built and tested, I post in the proper forum.


----------



## KingGlamis

My newest project involves a Garrity 2D host (basically the same as a Mag, and I'll probably switch this project to a Mag once I've played a little). I've figured out that I can mod the switch to handle higer amps and I can fit four CR123A cells in it with a reducer tube and different rear spring. My question is, what kind of wattage bulb can four CR123As or RCR123As power? The RCRs I use are only 680mah. I have a bi-pin bulb that is 12V and 75 watts, which off of four of these cells would be overdriven to around 15 volts and drawing around 5 amps. I'm not worried about melting the lens and reflector in this first test (I'll use short bursts) but I am worried about overtaxing the batteries. What RCR123A or CR123A cells have the highest mah rating?

Is there a better way to get 12-15 volts that will fit in a 2D host without boring the body?

As a side question, how in the heck do you get the snap ring that holds the switch into a Mag out? I thought I had every tool known to man but I don't have snap ring pliers that will fit into the tube and I haven't had any luck with screw drivers.

Thanks,
Doug


----------



## DM51

CR123As can work at ~2.5A max. 

R123s can deliver 1.2A safely, 1.5A max.

In both cases, voltages will sag significantly.

You might get a bit of smoke with the set-up you are proposing, and certainly some heat, but not much light.


----------



## LuxLuthor

After you remove the Mag Switch out the bottom, then slide a kitchen table knife which is wide enough, and thin enough to slide under the ears of the snap ring. It is not in place with much tension.

The CR123 cells are pretty limited in their usefulness, and safety for a more agressive type of multi-cell applicaiton. It is why we use larger cells and/or NiMH cells.


----------



## petrev

Hi Lux (et Al)

Just a few readings from my A123s and E-Molis


*IRC50 *
5x AW-C. .Vbulb 18.8 @ 5.1A (~95W)
6x A123 . .Vbulb 19.7 @ 5.2A (~102W)
5x E-Moli . Vbulb 19.6 @ 5.3A (~104W)

*IRC65*
6x A123 . .Vbulb 19.1 @ 6.44A (~123W)
5x E-Moli . Vbulb 18.5 @ 6.40A (~118W)

*64458*
6x A123 . .Vbulb 18.7 @ 11.5A (~215W) (ClampMeter !) 
5x E-Moli . Vbulb 18.2 @ 10.4A (~189W) (ClampMeter !)

All really great bulbs.
Wonder what the Lumen/Watt of the 64458 and the IRCs are ?

Just got the bits to build an FET-Switch but no time . . .


Cheers Pete


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Thanks for updating your results Pete , with the clamped results.

You got readings for 5x E-Moli . Vbulb 18.2 @ 10.4A.

I got 19.3V on the 5 resting cells, and 18V on the pin to tailcap whilst running. 9.8A

I didn't use a clamp meter, just forgot for a second the fuse was rated 10A verses the expected > 10A bulb curren draw, still It survived.

Weird, for some reason, I thought the 458 would pull more A but I guess the voltage needs to be higher for this.

Were your Emoli cells fully charged.

Looking back Mine wern't and the pack voltage was 19.3.

With 21V it may be more current pulled, ( I remember seeing a 12A start up on the meter, but it dropped almost instantly to arround 10A 
but the 4.2V is nominal, and quickly drops off under load, looking at the emoli graph thats knocking about, and the periodic measurement of the Voltage / performance of my pack

What kind of switch were you using? A kiu'd D switch?

I'm thinking 6 emolis to run the 64458, but need a way to tame the 25.2 starting voltage. I think once the 4.2V nominal is down under load the 3.7 x 6 cells 22.2 V will not make it to the pins, so it might just sit at 21V or so, which seems to be a good place to be with this lamp.

Wondering if an NTC would cause enough of a delay on the 4.2V nominal x 6 cells, I doubt it, but it may provide the suitable voltage drop, I guess there is only one way to test it, and shall when I get some.


----------



## jimjones3630

sl12 1r010 NTC using on 5761 with 2xemoli 8.17vbulb down to 6.9vbulb.
The % residual resistance of NTC would be same but could change with inceased heat.

Don't have a way yet to try SL121R010 on 6 Emoli cells but will do on 5 cells and post results here.



Raoul_Duke said:


> Wondering if an NTC would cause enough of a delay on the 4.2V nominal x 6 cells, I doubt it, but it may provide the suitable voltage drop, I guess there is only one way to test it, and shall when I get some.


----------



## jimjones3630

64458 with 5 Emoli with NTC controlled surge protection soft start Amertherm SL12 1R010 NTC
20.2vbat, 16.59vbulb.

Maybe another NTC better suited for 64458


----------



## petrev

Raoul_Duke said:


> Thanks for updating your results Pete , with the clamped results.
> 
> You got readings for 5x E-Moli . Vbulb 18.2 @ 10.4A.
> 
> I got 19.3V on the 5 resting cells, and 18V on the pin to tailcap whilst running. 9.8A
> 
> I didn't use a clamp meter, just forgot for a second the fuse was rated 10A verses the expected > 10A bulb curren draw, still It survived.
> 
> Weird, for some reason, I thought the 458 would pull more A but I guess the voltage needs to be higher for this.
> 
> Were your Emoli cells fully charged.
> 
> Looking back Mine wern't and the pack voltage was 19.3.
> 
> With 21V it may be more current pulled, ( I remember seeing a 12A start up on the meter, but it dropped almost instantly to arround 10A
> but the 4.2V is nominal, and quickly drops off under load, looking at the emoli graph thats knocking about, and the periodic measurement of the Voltage / performance of my pack
> 
> What kind of switch were you using? A kiu'd D switch?
> 
> I'm thinking 6 emolis to run the 64458, but need a way to tame the 25.2 starting voltage. I think once the 4.2V nominal is down under load the 3.7 x 6 cells 22.2 V will not make it to the pins, so it might just sit at 21V or so, which seems to be a good place to be with this lamp.
> 
> Wondering if an NTC would cause enough of a delay on the 4.2V nominal x 6 cells, I doubt it, but it may provide the suitable voltage drop, I guess there is only one way to test it, and shall when I get some.


 
Hi Raoul,

Still got to get round to making my KIU-FET switch (Std. Kiu-D for now) and until I do I am not really testing the 64458 ! 

Hoping for the JimmyM Softstarter with Trim-Pot to arrive down the line so that then 6 E-Moli might work rather nicely ! ! !

Cheers Pete


----------



## petrev

OK !

Made up an FET switch at last !

Based on the simple schematic from JimmyM




[URL="http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fmosfetschemmjimmymos7.jpg"]

 . 

 . 

[/URL]





The Batt-Neg / Source Node is on the reverse - The Source leg of the FET goes through a hole in the PCB. 10K resistor soldered to Source Leg !

The component side has just three areas - Gate, Drain and Switch - See Thumb-3 Above

The Kiu bulb wires come through the hole in the middle and attach to the Drain and the Switch/Battery Spring (see Thumb) with a little magnet soldered on for good measure !

I also put some of that copper braid on the Mag Tail-Spring - it came from the V28 pack that provided the E-Molis !

So - What's the difference ?

Well firstly no damage to Mag Switch from 10+Amps.

and much lower resistance

*6x A123 - IRC65* 

Mag Switch - 20.9V Open Circuit
19.10VBulb @ 6.44A

FET Switch and TailFix - 19.97V Open Circuit 
19.28VBulb @ 7.10A

With slightly more used cells still get higher VBulb and higher Amps.


*6x A123 - 64458 *

0 Min . . . . 21.1V O/C . 19.5VBulb @ 11.6A (226W)
3.5 Min . . .20.0V O/C . 18.6VBulb @ 10.4A (193W)
7.0 Min . . .19.7V O/C . 18.3VBulb @ 10.2A (187W)
10.5 Min . . 18.9V O/C . 17.3VBulb @ 9.6A (166W)
~11.5 Min cutoff @ 15V
Slow dimming and drop -off.
Recharge 2.8Ah in 22min

*5x E-Moli - 64458 *

0 Min . . . . 20.5V O/C . 18.7VBulb @ 10.6A (198W)
3.5 Min . . .19.7V O/C . 17.9VBulb @ 9.8A (175W)
7.0 Min . . .19.3V O/C . 17.6VBulb @ 9.6A (169W)
10.5 Min . . 18.9V O/C . 17.3VBulb @ 9.6A (166W)
13.3 Min . . 17.5V O/C . 15.0VBulb @ 8.6A (129W)
~13.3 Min cutoff @ 15V
Very flat middle section !
Precipitous - Almost vertical drop-off at the end - very rapid dimming to possible cell damage ?

Interesting !

Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

Wooo, Excellant! Don't you love how flat both cells discharge? A123 no problem discharge down to 2v, heard A123 charging programs can trickle back to life when less than 2v. Emoli overdischare question is inconclusive as I understand.
Great job Pete :twothumbs
http://www.swift-tuning.com/EMOLI_26700A.pdf



petrev said:


> OK !
> 
> Made up an FET switch at last !
> 
> Based on the simple schematic from JimmyM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [URL="http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fmosfetschemmjimmymos7.jpg"]
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> [/URL]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Batt-Neg / Source Node is on the reverse - The Source leg of the FET goes through a hole in the PCB. 10K resistor soldered to Source Leg !
> 
> The component side has just three areas - Gate, Drain and Switch - See Thumb-3 Above
> 
> The Kiu bulb wires come through the hole in the middle and attach to the Drain and the Switch/Battery Spring (see Thumb) with a little magnet soldered on for good measure !
> 
> I also put some of that copper braid on the Mag Tail-Spring - it came from the V28 pack that provided the E-Molis !
> 
> So - What's the difference ?
> 
> Well firstly no damage to Mag Switch from 10+Amps.
> 
> and much lower resistance
> 
> *6x A123 - IRC65*
> 
> Mag Switch - 20.9V Open Circuit
> 19.10VBulb @ 6.44A
> 
> FET Switch and TailFix - 19.97V Open Circuit
> 19.28VBulb @ 7.10A
> 
> With slightly more used cells still get higher VBulb and higher Amps.
> 
> 
> *6x A123 - 64458 *
> 
> 0 Min . . . . 21.1V O/C . 19.5VBulb @ 11.6A (226W)
> 3.5 Min . . .20.0V O/C . 18.6VBulb @ 10.4A (193W)
> 7.0 Min . . .19.7V O/C . 18.3VBulb @ 10.2A (187W)
> 10.5 Min . . 18.9V O/C . 17.3VBulb @ 9.6A (166W)
> ~11.5 Min cutoff @ 15V
> Slow dimming and drop -off.
> Recharge 2.8Ah in 22min
> 
> *5x E-Moli - 64458 *
> 
> 0 Min . . . . 20.5V O/C . 18.7VBulb @ 10.6A (198W)
> 3.5 Min . . .19.7V O/C . 17.9VBulb @ 9.8A (175W)
> 7.0 Min . . .19.3V O/C . 17.6VBulb @ 9.6A (169W)
> 10.5 Min . . 18.9V O/C . 17.3VBulb @ 9.6A (166W)
> 13.3 Min . . 17.5V O/C . 15.0VBulb @ 8.6A (129W)
> ~13.3 Min cutoff @ 15V
> Very flat middle section !
> Precipitous - Almost vertical drop-off at the end - very rapid dimming to possible cell damage ?
> 
> Interesting !
> 
> Pete


----------



## petrev

Thanks Jim,

With a component count of 3 it's just about my limit !)

Looking forward to JimmyM's SS - sounds like good progress over in the PWM thread.

Yep gotta love that flat discharge.

Cheers Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

Have the MOSFET, two resistors. Swithch only no soft start. Still that's some itty bitty soldering work. Looks good. MOSFET is n channel? Rated up to how many volts?



petrev said:


> Thanks Jim,
> 
> With a component count of 3 it's just about my limit !)
> 
> Looking forward to JimmyM's SS - sounds like good progress over in the PWM thread.
> 
> Yep gotta love that flat discharge.
> 
> Cheers Pete


----------



## petrev

jimjones3630 said:


> Have the MOSFET, two resistors. Swithch only no soft start. Still that's some itty bitty soldering work. Looks good. MOSFET is n channel? Rated up to how many volts?



Hi - Simple switch, IRF2804 40V (just in case) D2PAK version is slightly smaller and would fit better - had to trim a bit of heatsink on mine !

Cheers Pete


----------



## JimmyM

petrev said:


> Hi - Simple switch, IRF2804 40V (just in case) D2PAK version is slightly smaller and would fit better - had to trim a bit of heatsink on mine !
> 
> Cheers Pete


The IRF2804 is a D2PAK package. The body is roughly 10mm x 10mm. There is a smaller package, DPAK, which is quite nice. A TO-220 package sits between the 2, sizewize. My softstarters will use the D2PAK IRF2804.
petrev, If you want to, you can change the resistor values to half of what they are. The IRF2804 has a large gate capacitance which causes it to turn on and off more slowly. If you switch to 2.2k and 5k, the MOSFET will switch faster and thus reduce the heat generated during turn on and off.


----------



## petrev

JimmyM said:


> The IRF2804 is a D2PAK package. The body is roughly 10mm x 10mm. There is a smaller package, DPAK, which is quite nice. A TO-220 package sits between the 2, sizewize. My softstarters will use the D2PAK IRF2804.
> petrev, If you want to, you can change the resistor values to half of what they are. The IRF2804 has a large gate capacitance which causes it to turn on and off more slowly. If you switch to 2.2k and 5k, the MOSFET will switch faster and thus reduce the heat generated during turn on and off.


 


Hi Jimmy,

The IRF-2804 I used was a TO-220 which has the bigger heat sink but is about the same size, package wise, as the D2PAK. I have some of the D2PAK(TO-262/TO-263) but wanted to use up the bigger heatsink ones first !

DPAK would be quite a bit smaller and if you can suggest a suitable component for other people if they wanted smaller that would be great.

Doubt if I am switching mine on and off fast/often enough to cause much heating until I learn how to signal in Morse Code ! but it's good to know - Darn it - just got 4 each of the 4K7 and 10K . . .

Keep up the good work
Cheers Pete


----------



## JimmyM

The MOSFET I like in place of the 1324 or 2804 if voltage won't exceed 30V is the IRLR7843. I'm using it in testing my soft starter and am using it as a MOSFET switch in My 2C ROP-Hi.


----------



## petrev

Hi

Charging graphs for A123 and E-Moli . . . FMA-6S Charger

20 Minutes A123 @ 11A





71 Minutes E-Moli @ 3A





Cheers 
Pete


----------



## petrev

Yes . . .

Lux Luthor is being 

Very Creatively Destructive

:thumbsup:
Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

Pete looking over your results again. Liking that flat discharge of A123 and Emoli. 



petrev said:


> OK !
> *6x A123 - IRC65*
> 
> Mag Switch - 20.9V Open Circuit
> 19.10VBulb @ 6.44A
> 
> FET Switch and TailFix - 19.97V Open Circuit
> 19.28VBulb @ 7.10A
> 
> With slightly more used cells still get higher VBulb and higher Amps.
> 
> 
> *6x A123 - 64458 *
> 
> 0 Min . . . . 21.1V O/C . 19.5VBulb @ 11.6A (226W)
> 3.5 Min . . .20.0V O/C . 18.6VBulb @ 10.4A (193W)
> 7.0 Min . . .19.7V O/C . 18.3VBulb @ 10.2A (187W)
> 10.5 Min . . 18.9V O/C . 17.3VBulb @ 9.6A (166W)
> ~11.5 Min cutoff @ 15V
> Slow dimming and drop -off.
> Recharge 2.8Ah in 22min
> 
> *5x E-Moli - 64458 *
> 
> 0 Min . . . . 20.5V O/C . 18.7VBulb @ 10.6A (198W)
> 3.5 Min . . .19.7V O/C . 17.9VBulb @ 9.8A (175W)
> 7.0 Min . . .19.3V O/C . 17.6VBulb @ 9.6A (169W)
> 10.5 Min . . 18.9V O/C . 17.3VBulb @ 9.6A (166W)
> 13.3 Min . . 17.5V O/C . 15.0VBulb @ 8.6A (129W)
> ~13.3 Min cutoff @ 15V
> Very flat middle section !
> Precipitous - Almost vertical drop-off at the end - very rapid dimming to possible cell damage ?
> 
> Interesting !
> 
> Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

Do a short run last night on 64655 24v. Only other time have used this bulb was on the bench so had an idea instan-flash wouldn't happen with 24.5vbat. 6xemoli rested cells. 22.2vbulb at the pins giving some time to settle. These cells are separate, thinking if soldered together will have higher vbulb. 

Woo, is that thing a flood monster even with fm 2" deep reflector. 

Raoul was kind enough to donate couple of 64657 thanks James. Plan to test today for flash point and light up the foot ball field with it tonight on 6xemoli.

jim


----------



## Raoul_Duke

When you say rested, how much do your emoli drop.

I forgot to mention the other night ran 64458 on 6 emoli. All around 3.78V; the resting "pack" so to speak read 22.48V.....

and I got 20.4V on the pins :devil:

The lamp realy shone there..........

But I forgot that the cells were realy depleated so the light soon faded of in my exitement.

64458 is great with 5 fresh emoli. no way getting 20.4V to the pins...

With 6 fresh will have to find a way to harness the 25.2V start up potential. I'm sure that would drop, and wouldent find its way to the pins, but i'm sure it will flash the 458 but not for a little while.

Had planned to fire up the 655 and 657 on 5 6 emoli and see what V made it to the pins, and then work out what I need to hook up 7 emoli together.

No worries on the 64657's, my pleasure for all the help you have been  OH you dont have to  one of them instantly BTW. Might aswelll clock up a few miles on it first. I'd be interested to see how the 657 likes the overdrive, as it has between 200~300 hours verses the ~50 I think the 64655 has, but either way Its going to be a very long mag for 7 emoli 

Oh BTW got 5 emoli straight into my 7C the other night, no modding needed, Not sure why I couldn't before. Still it is so nice with 5 in ... a nice platform for the 458 and the other lamps Pete that has already tried on 5 emoli. I will have to get round to digging out the IRC's

Now my 6D will become my 6 and 7 emoli platform for the moment.

458 thows so so well with FM 3" reflector. 

Just reading back to your 5 emoli on the 458 post Jim, and maybee the NTC would help out with the 6 emoli on the 458


----------



## LuxLuthor

The 64657 has a 300 Hr life 9K Lumen rating. I can't deal with 5 or 6 cell D/C Mag's, so the Emoli/A123 are not of a practical benefit for me. Maybe one day they will shrink the cell form factor size.


----------



## jimjones3630

Rested is 24.5vbat, hot charged 6x4.2v=25.2v which these did charge up around there. Then next day measured 24.5v

vbulb 22.2 is misleading these cells did not sag 2.3v underload. IIRC Pete got much less difference vbat-vbulb. 

2.3v difference is in part from individual cells as opposed to soldered stick. 

Woo 20.4vbulb with 458, bet you are ginning. that is around 11,000 lumen your in LarryK land. Why not retake with fresh cells? 0.6v difference vbat-vbulb I have in serval of my mods. You are not using loose cells?

25.2vbat at start up believe would flash 458 no matter how soft started. 20.5vbulb or so would be my target. With NTC and 6 E's think the vbulb <20 but I'll check it out now have running 6 E mod. 

457 ran some last night, stuck my head out the front and turned it on once.

Woo 5 E's in 7C i am green. do you have 5 A123? 18v hot charged, 16.5vbat nominal, doubt would sag much below that and with 64623 would have a white color temp, over 6,000 lumen or more.

cheer jim



Raoul_Duke said:


> When you say rested, how much do your emoli drop.
> 
> I forgot to mention the other night ran 64458 on 6 emoli. All around 3.78V; the resting "pack" so to speak read 22.48V.....
> 
> and I got 20.4V on the pins :devil:
> 
> The lamp realy shone there..........
> 
> But I forgot that the cells were realy depleated so the light soon faded of in my exitement.
> 
> 64458 is great with 5 fresh emoli. no way getting 20.4V to the pins...
> 
> With 6 fresh will have to find a way to harness the 25.2V start up potential. I'm sure that would drop, and wouldent find its way to the pins, but i'm sure it will flash the 458 but not for a little while.
> 
> Had planned to fire up the 655 and 657 on 5 6 emoli and see what V made it to the pins, and then work out what I need to hook up 7 emoli together.
> 
> No worries on the 64657's, my pleasure for all the help you have been  OH you dont have to  one of them instantly BTW. Might aswelll clock up a few miles on it first. I'd be interested to see how the 657 likes the overdrive, as it has between 200~300 hours verses the ~50 I think the 64655 has, but either way Its going to be a very long mag for 7 emoli
> 
> Oh BTW got 5 emoli straight into my 7C the other night, no modding needed, Not sure why I couldn't before. Still it is so nice with 5 in ... a nice platform for the 458 and the other lamps Pete that has already tried on 5 emoli. I will have to get round to digging out the IRC's
> 
> Now my 6D will become my 6 and 7 emoli platform for the moment.
> 
> 458 thows so so well with FM 3" reflector.
> 
> Just reading back to your 5 emoli on the 458 post Jim, and maybee the NTC would help out with the 6 emoli on the 458


----------



## jimjones3630

Here is one I'd add. 

*G4 pin 35w 6v overdriven to 14.2v >8,000 lumens* 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/180177


----------



## LuxLuthor

jimjones3630 said:


> Here is one I'd add.
> 
> *G4 pin 35w 6v overdriven to 14.2v >8,000 lumens*
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/180177




I'm really trying to bring some rigor into claims like this, and hated to see this claim made this way.

Maybe I'll pick up a 6V 35W bulb at my local hardware store and make a claim that it is a 20,000 Lumen bulb! Unless there is REAL WORLD verification of lumens, this is just going to confuse people. On a preliminary basis, count me as a skeptic.


----------



## jimjones3630

Lux, funny you use the same Hot Rater in another thread and here you have doubts. 

Your going to loose your creditability either way.

jim



LuxLuthor said:


> I'm really trying to bring some rigor into claims like this, and hated to see this claim made this way.
> 
> Maybe I'll pick up a 6V 35W bulb at my local hardware store and make a claim that it is a 20,000 Lumen bulb! Unless there is REAL WORLD verification of lumens, this is just going to confuse people. On a preliminary basis, count me as a skeptic.


----------



## LuxLuthor

JJ, read my post #13 in your other thread that you started. No point in double posting....and don't take any of my comments personally. I'm just as guilty at wanting the Hotrater to be accurate...but I had no idea until this week how meaningless it has always been. AWR confirms this in conversations with me.


----------



## jimjones3630

Lux,

Writing in multible threads about conversations with anyone doesn't lead creditablity. 

People have made big $ off of obscure bulbs, bulbs requiring drivers, and cry wolf when a $3.50 bulb is offered that might require a $1 NTC at most. 
And the source of the bulb is given that anyone might try.

Lux do you think you might be just a little too ready to dismiss the prosibility? Really, you called AWR and present that as your bases of suspicion of my work?




LuxLuthor said:


> JJ, read my post #13 in your other thread that you started. No point in double posting....and don't take any of my comments personally. I'm just as guilty at wanting the Hotrater to be accurate...but I had no idea until this week how meaningless it has always been. AWR confirms this in conversations with me.


----------



## LuxLuthor

JJ. Chill out my friend. We are not going to convince each other tonight. Let's let it rest for now. Just please stop assuming any of this has something to do with making $$$ off of bulbs or drivers. For me it has to do with bringing some science into bulb performance.


----------



## jimjones3630

Lux,

I am not trying to convince you of anything. If you want to bring science into this then don't rashly post your doubts. That is actually what most do in field, then cast your opinion. Such a off the cuff dismissal leads one to question how are you qualified to do so?

jim



LuxLuthor said:


> JJ. Chill out my friend. We are not going to convince each other tonight. Let's let it rest for now. Just please stop assuming any of this has something to do with making $$$ off of bulbs or drivers. For me it has to do with bringing some science into bulb performance.


----------



## jimjones3630

Took 657 with 6 emolis and FM deep 2" reflector for a ride of about 5 min continous run. Great light lit up both sides of road and then some.

Bubbled up another reflector.





Got too hot to hold down to the switch, after I turned it off. Before that point ceramic insulation working rather well.



Raoul_Duke said:


> With 6 fresh will have to find a way to harness the 25.2V start up potential. I'm sure that would drop, and wouldent find its way to the pins, but i'm sure it will flash the 458 but not for a little while.
> 
> Had planned to fire up the 655 and 657 on 5 6 emoli and see what V made it to the pins, and then work out what I need to hook up 7 emoli together.
> 
> No worries on the 64657's, my pleasure for all the help you have been  OH you dont have to  one of them instantly BTW. Might aswelll clock up a few miles on it first. I'd be interested to see how the 657 likes the overdrive, as it has between 200~300 hours verses the ~50 I think the 64655 has, but either way Its going to be a very long mag for 7 emoli
> 
> Oh BTW got 5 emoli straight into my 7C the other night, no modding needed, Not sure why I couldn't before. Still it is so nice with 5 in ... a nice platform for the 458 and the other lamps Pete that has already tried on 5 emoli. I will have to get round to digging out the IRC's
> 
> Now my 6D will become my 6 and 7 emoli platform for the moment.
> 
> 458 thows so so well with FM 3" reflector.
> 
> Just reading back to your 5 emoli on the 458 post Jim, and maybee the NTC would help out with the 6 emoli on the 458


----------



## Raoul_Duke

So is the 657 too powerfull?

When you say bubbled up, what reflector were you using? FM 2" deep reflector, sounds expensive 

Where did you have the insulation placed?

Did you have one of your funky lenses on it aswell?

I'm guessing a 5 min continuous run is out of the question with these high Watt lamps, mind you I haven't run anything higher than a 64623 for ~ 10 mins in the same light, and that was hot as hell, but I was walking outside at the time.


----------



## jimjones3630

Yes I am a equal oppertunity destoryer. Carley and FM one each. This one was a 2" deep. 

With the 2" deep there is less room between reflector and head, only space is around kiu and below. With the Carley had max allowed between reflector and head. In fact, some advised not to pak the insulation tightly but have loosely. 

No standard lens as still awaiting lens order arrival.
64623 and all 100w bulbs get hot, have run 90w 64458 over 5min, 56580 at 10.2v initally for 15 or more think 20min continous which got hot down to the tailcap and reflector survived.

Have heard the current vacuum metalizing coating which this reflector had is standard. Other have tried hard chrome and different things which sounds like didn't work.

Don't know if pure silver would be a step up but is out of my range. 

657 is not too powerful. Now this maybe.










Raoul_Duke said:


> So is the 657 too powerfull?
> 
> When you say bubbled up, what reflector were you using? FM 2" deep reflector, sounds expensive
> 
> Where did you have the insulation placed?
> 
> Did you have one of your funky lenses on it aswell?
> 
> I'm guessing a 5 min continuous run is out of the question with these high Watt lamps, mind you I haven't run anything higher than a 64623 for ~ 10 mins in the same light, and that was hot as hell, but I was walking outside at the time.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

jimjones3630 said:


> Yes I am a equal oppertunity destoryer. Carley and FM one each. This one was a 2" deep.



:laughing::rock:



I have often wondered if instead of putting insulation around the reflector, put thermal paste intead, and sealing it buy putting a disk on the bottom of the reflector.

If the disk was threaded it could fit on the cammed (removed) type reflectors, and the outer edges of the disk touching the bell of the light.

then thermal paste could be squeesed in the void.

down sides would be pottentialy very messy, the grease may thermaly expand? ( doesnt in the thermo wells I use at work thinking about it now, if some air is left in.

Plus's would be wicking heat away from the lamp and reflector.

I think that ceramic insulation under the socket, and under the kiu heat sink, and between the switch and top of the cells is still a good Idea.

Still I suppose a pourpose built D reflector that filled the void of the D bell, with a little layer of thermal paste would be better.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Or, Can anybody think of something firmer to squeese, spread or paste into the void of the back of the reflector, and the head, to secure the reflector, and head, and provide best thermal path to the outside world.

And put a barrier of insulation under that to stop the spread to the cells, a little

I was thinking setting something like lead, but would then not heat up itself and go molten in the head, which would be a scary situation to creat shorts and worse?

I could cope with loosing the ability to remove the reflector from the head, and have ity fixed in place I'd just get a few more heads spare and reflectors if it was essential.


----------



## jimjones3630

James, 2" deep reflector has no space between itself and head body and sounds like what you mentioned " D reflector that filled the void of the D bell, with a little layer of thermal paste would be better" I use an aluminum based heat cream or ceramique cream on head threads. With 90w and greater watt bulbs it does get very soft, not dripping but is only a thin layer.

Have thought of adding powered or very fine aluminum shavings to the cream. Maybe then soak or work into ceramic batting insulation??

Can you draw your idea out and paste it here? Heat sink improvements for computors smooth out the surface to improve heat transfer? Read in another thread here's a link.
http://www.svc.com/lapkit.html



Raoul_Duke said:


> :laughing::rock:
> 
> 
> 
> I have often wondered if instead of putting insulation around the reflector, put thermal paste intead, and sealing it buy putting a disk on the bottom of the reflector.
> 
> If the disk was threaded it could fit on the cammed 9 removed) type reflectors, and the outer edges of the disk touching the bell of the light.
> 
> then thermal paste could be squeesed in the void.
> 
> down sides would be pottentialy very messy, the grease may thermaly expand? ( doesnt in the thermo wells I use at work thinking about it now, if some air is left in.
> 
> Plus's would be wicking heat away from the lamp and reflector.
> 
> I think that ceramic insulation under the socket, and under the kiu heat sink, and between the switch and top of the cells is still a good Idea.
> 
> Still I suppose a pourpose built D reflector that filled the void of the D bell, with a little layer of thermal paste would be better.


----------



## jimjones3630

Took ceiling bounce pics today of the Chinese Mystry bulb, Osram 62138, and Philips 5761. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/180177&page=2


----------



## DM51

I think this light has great potential - the new owner is looking for suggestions...


----------



## jimjones3630

7 emolis, vbat 29, vbulb 27.5ish, 64657 briefly lit up, switch started smoking, that was impressive while couldn't get it to click off. 

What are you doing to beef up mag switch? What I was doing stopped working although this is most volts run. Looking inside, the contact ring between upper and lower contacts turned black. Previously soldered the rings laying a smooth surface, but this one didn't get soldered.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Cool, that means when I get home today I can put the finnishing touches ( namley add the 64567) to the ready and waiting host  

Its a 6d mag with one 34 mm & one 74mm extentions, and 7 emoli and light this bad boy up. :devil:

I have the 10A switches that mac used for his torch, and the 64655 20 cell elephant that he made, and the 21 cell 64655 luxluthor made, ( thanks to Lux :thumbsup: )

I had planned to wait and use the JM-SST to control the peak voltage voltage but if the 64657 can take the overdrive, ( I had hope it would as it has 200 -300 hours, depending on where you look, compared to the slighly brighter, but shorter life 50 hours, 64655)

Had planned to do this for ages, but only just got the lamps last week, ( thanks to Jim :thumbsup: )

Its going to be big and heavy, but bright. Just the way I like them.

Do you think the reflectors will hold up. Should I go with the standard head and 2" FM med stipple, or just pop it in the FM3V-2, and hope for the best :sick2: ?


----------



## LuxLuthor

Raoul_Duke said:


> Do you think the reflectors will hold up. Should I go with the standard head and 2" FM med stipple, or just pop it in the FM3V-2, and hope for the best :sick2: ?



PM sent on what I did with the Hyperblaster's reflector setup.


----------



## petrev

jimjones3630 said:


> 7 emolis, vbat 29, vbulb 27.5ish, 64657 briefly lit up, switch started smoking, that was impressive while couldn't get it to click off.
> 
> What are you doing to beef up mag switch? What I was doing stopped working although this is most volts run. Looking inside, the contact ring between upper and lower contacts turned black. Previously soldered the rings laying a smooth surface, but this one didn't get soldered.


 
Hi Jim

My simple FET switch works well so far - waiting for the JM-SST to come along for more fun . . .

Cheers Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

Regarding reflectors, think 99.999% pure AL with an overcoat of SiO2 may have more heat tolerance. watching this thread waiting for the guy to mention who is doing the reflector coating
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/180982

make you own thermal epoxy thread
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/181336



Raoul_Duke said:


> Cool, that means when I get home today I can put the finnishing touches ( namley add the 64567) to the ready and waiting host
> 
> Its a 6d mag with one 34 mm & one 74mm extentions, and 7 emoli and light this bad boy up. :devil:
> 
> I have the 10a switches that mac used for his torch, and the 64655 20 cell elephant that he made, and the 21 cell 64655 luxluthor made, ( thanks to Lux :thumbsup: )
> 
> I had planned to wait and use the JM-SST to control the peak voltage voltage but if the 64657 can take the overdrive, ( I had hope it would as it has 200 -300 hours, depending on where you look, compared to the slighly brighter, but shorter life 50 hours, 64655)
> 
> Had planned to do this for ages, but only just got the lamps last week, ( thanks to Jim :thumbsup: )
> 
> Its going to be big and heavy, but bright. Just the way I like them.
> 
> Do you think the reflectors will hold up. Should I go with the standard head and 2" FM med stipple, or just pop it in the FM3V-2, and hope for the best :sick2: ?


----------



## jimjones3630

Pete, that FET looks good, tried surface mount soldering and can't get the tech down so I'm waiting for the JM-SST as well.
jim



petrev said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> My simple FET switch works well so far - waiting for the JM-SST to come along for more fun . . .
> 
> Cheers Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

Lux, why don't you post here what you did for that reflector setup?



LuxLuthor said:


> PM sent on what I did with the Hyperblaster's reflector setup.


----------



## petrev

jimjones3630 said:


> Pete, that FET looks good, tried surface mount soldering and can't get the tech down so I'm waiting for the JM-SST as well.
> jim


 
Hi Jim

Posted a How To Guide showing the simple Low-Tech method.

It's not really proper surface mount soldering as these are the biggest parts I could find (almost).

JimmyM and others do the impossible small stuff - I can't - this is really rather big.

Can't wait for the JM-SST and SSR to come onstream as they are the real deal.

Cheers
Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

I'd like to try one of the JM-SST and SSR as well, probable able to build one of your sooner.

jim



petrev said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> Posted a How To Guide showing the simple Low-Tech method.
> 
> It's not really proper surface mount soldering as these are the biggest parts I could find (almost).
> 
> JimmyM and others do the impossible small stuff - I can't - this is really rather big.
> 
> Can't wait for the JM-SST and SSR to come onstream as they are the real deal.
> 
> Cheers
> Pete


----------



## JimmyM

This won't soft-start the bulb though. It is a super low resistance switch. Damn sturdy by the look of it. But since it switches on really fast AND has low resistance, it will give the bulb a larger current spike than standard modded mag switch. It's a great idea for high current bulbs that aren't going to instaflash. Like the 64623 on 13 cells. Or the 64458 on 16-17 cells.



petrev said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> Posted a How To Guide showing the simple Low-Tech method.
> 
> It's not really proper surface mount soldering as these are the biggest parts I could find (almost).
> 
> JimmyM and others do the impossible small stuff - I can't - this is really rather big.
> 
> Can't wait for the JM-SST and SSR to come onstream as they are the real deal.
> 
> Cheers
> Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

Picked up older [email protected] without C in the serial number, A123 batteries wrapped in kapton tape slide in. 5th cell stick out requiring use of extender, makes for long light but so light weight. 90w 458 looks better pushed closer to 20v so swapped 623 100w bulb which is pictured on the right side and in same pic on left a microfire k3500 HID. Testing the Microfire on a passaround and will post a review in that thread. Thought some here might like to see 623 comparison.


----------



## petrev

jimjones3630 said:


> Picked up older [email protected] without C in the serial number, A123 batteries wrapped in kapton tape slide in. 5th cell stick out requiring use of extender . . .



Hi Jim

Clarification:
What "C" extender are you using ?

Haven't found any with sufficient Inner-Girth so far ! ! !

Cheers
Pete


----------



## adamlau

Mac has some really nice lights.


----------



## petrev

adamlau said:


> Mac has some really nice lights.



Hi Adam

He does indeed . . .

Clarification above - needing C extension with sufficient Inner-Girth for A123 (+eMoli if poss ?) 

Haven't found them yet . . .

Cheers 
Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

Hi Pete,

I use the "C" extenders commonly regarded as unable to fit. Even the maker denies they will fit. In fact, they usually don't fit when I get them.

Peaked your interest? I like to share my modding "secrets" then the naysayers, not you Pete, shake their heads. So it is kind of fun for me. It is like the aspherical lens for incans, "oh no that can't work." 

AW's c cell extender will stretch. In fact, some have large enough ID an A123 wrapped in kapton tape will slip straight in. When not, I spray on alot of silicone, push some more then wait for it the stretch. 

I've done the same with Emoli's and C extender in [email protected] to get 3 Emolis to fit. Makes a nice compact 100w mod. 

Cheers, 
jim 



petrev said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> Clarification:
> What "C" extender are you using ?
> 
> Haven't found any with sufficient Inner-Girth so far ! ! !
> 
> Cheers
> Pete


----------



## petrev

Thanks Jim

My AW extenders may just fit A123s with the Kapton tape but are way too small for my eMoli even with no tape !

Ah well - Luck of the draw . . .

Cheers
Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

Pete,

Why don't you try to stretch them? The worst thing that can happen is the extender gets stuck and need to grip it in a vice leaving some marks. Aluminum brushes out easy.

jim



petrev said:


> Thanks Jim
> 
> My AW extenders may just fit A123s with the Kapton tape but are way too small for my eMoli even with no tape !
> 
> Ah well - Luck of the draw . . .
> 
> Cheers
> Pete


----------



## jimjones3630

Pete,

I have an emoli "stuck" in an extender. Is no problem can recharge it with clamp on the pos and on neg with a magnet on the clamp. The other 2 Emoli I use with it are single cells as well. Whatever the extra effort it's worth it to me since 4C 100w light I use and like.

jim


----------



## petrev

Aye Jim

Well worth it - Thanks for the info

Cheers 
Pete


----------



## cat

:laughing: So. An extender battery.


----------



## jimjones3630

Yes,

emoli on left is "stuck" as is A123 on right. A123 is so far down the first extender the tailcap needed a second extender which could screw into it since the tailcap could not. With second extender tailcap easily screws on. Both recharge without problem using alligator clips.
secrets reveiled.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Another very workable solution for those interested in gaining a bit more room is to use a KD Brake Hone (model 265) (in an ordinary drill) which I have used to grind away enough inside aluminum in a 3D to allow 3 wide "A" cells, or 4 wide AA cells...and it does the same on a C Mag and/or tailcap extender to get a margin of room for A123 or Emoli cells.


----------



## jimjones3630

pic below on left is result of using brake hone. My experience is AW C cell extenders do not have enough material to hone without collapsing. But all metal will expand given proper technique.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Curious to see the deep threads and bottom missing, as my hone work did not do that, but yes the margin of thickness is small.

Yet another option albeit with less capacity, but using safe lithium chemistry is one of may types of brand new 18650 cells for under $8.


----------



## jimjones3630

the part that is missing is the part with ID less than the OD of A123 or Emoli previously mentioned. That's the part which screws into the tailcap end.



jimjones3630 said:


> pic below on left is result of using brake hone. My experience is AW C cell extenders do not have enough material to hone without collapsing. But all metal will expand given proper technique.


----------



## Timaxe

If I'm looking at this right, isn't it possible to simply remove the insulation from the bottom part of the bottom cell? That would give you some extra room, and since it is the bottom cell it can't short against the walls because it is already connected to them via the spring at the bottom in the first place. So there is no potential difference between it and the walls anyways since they're already directly connected.

Of course you don't want the other cells to short against the tube (because there is a potential difference there, which is bad), but if you use the extender as the tailcap (ie, put it on last) with a cell stuck in there without insulation on the bottom part it might *just* fit.


----------



## jimjones3630

Timaxe, your correct could remove the kapton tape, it's 1mm thick. It's not clear in the photo but the cell is oriented with neg - contact down making a neg ground conection. I like to pos groung my mods but didn't this one.

If that bit of kapton tape is off then on the neg end of that A123 cell the edge of the casing is exposed and it is pos. So it can become really interesting if the tailcap spring comes into contact with both neg and pos completing the circuit.

The cell will dump 70A before you can unscrew the tailcap. The bottom of the mag your holding onto will become so hot there is no way to describe it except to say the tailcap spring is literally melt off before you can get to it.



Timaxe said:


> If I'm looking at this right, isn't it possible to simply remove the insulation from the bottom part of the bottom cell? That would give you some extra room, and since it is the bottom cell it can't short against the walls because it is already connected to them via the spring at the bottom in the first place. So there is no potential difference between it and the walls anyways since they're already directly connected.
> 
> Of course you don't want the other cells to short against the tube (because there is a potential difference there, which is bad), but if you use the extender as the tailcap (ie, put it on last) with a cell stuck in there without insulation on the bottom part it might *just* fit.


----------

