# Tutorial: Laptop Battery Pack 18650 Extraction



## csshih

Hey all,I thought this little tutorial might be useful for some of you out there

*Disclaimer: Please note that you are taking apart battery packs in this tutorial which is expressly discouraged by the manufacturer as this is potentially a very hazardous process. I cannot be held responsible for any loss of property, damage, or loss of life if it comes to that. This tutorial was written for the highly educated users of rechargeable lithium ion technology, please do not attempt this if you are hesitant or unknowledgeable about these risks. Stay Safe.*

Please read all the tips these CPF members have given! :

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3138913&postcount=7
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3138924&postcount=8

Here's a little tutorial on how to harvest those 18650s on whatever old laptop battery pack you might be tossing out. Most of the time, laptop battery packs go bad when just a few cells in the pack are dead. the protection circuit cuts out the entire pack as a necessary protective measure for the user. There are still a few good cells though. 

Please check which batteries are good though checking how well the cell can discharge(as most old ones develop high interenal resistance), and how long the cell can keep its charge. 

note: the cells you extract are not button top.






We start out with 4 innocent looking extended life lenovo/IBM battery packs





find the weak spot somewhere along the seams, and pry until the pack pops open. the packs are usually ultrasonic welded along the seams, with added double sided tape.





continue prying.. these cells are held together with some sort of adhesive and snap-on tabs, too.





here is a single pack open.





repeat.





pull the cell assembly out of the pack.. they are normally held in by double sided tape.
*Be very careful when removing the cell assembly.. try not to bend the tabs as they could meet and short, resulting in a fire or explosion. (if left shorted)*





cut the weakest link, and separate the cells carefully.





remove the protection circuit, being very careful not to short out anything.. avoid contacting 2 separate metal pieces if you are unsure about polarity.





keep all the tabs separate. While doing this I accidentally touched 2 tabs onto another tab, giving me a big ol' spark and heatup of those cells.





separate the cells from each other.





repeat.





separate the cell pairs.. first remove the bottom tabs, then work on the top





be very careful at the top.. shorting out the pack can be caused by just punching through the thin shrink wrap.





twist the solder tabs off with pliers.











and there you have it, a mass collection of 18650s!


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## Crenshaw

Nice....Might do this when i get home....

And thats a WHOLE lot of 18650s....

and look at that smiley face...


Crenshaw


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## download

Great pics! :thumbsup:
Will you re-build the battery pack?


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## csshih

nope, download, 

a fellow CPF member rescued these packs from the junk pile for me. I don't have a laptop that works with them.

I pretty much junked the plastic shells getting them open anyways..

heh, smileyface.


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## vudoo

This is awesome! 

Now to hunt around for some unused laptop battery packs. Whats a good way to check if the cells are still "good"? Charge and see if they hold the volts and then see how long they last for?


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## TranceAddict

they look like sanyo cell to me


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## Fallingwater

Some additions:

- when doing anything with bare liion cells, it's wise to have a fireproof container nearby, along with a bucket of sand. If a cell starts heating up and/or smoking, quickly throw it in the container and dump the sand on it. Sand is the only reliable way of dealing with a lithium fire; water and most fire extinguishers won't do squat. I'm told fine kitty litter might work in place of sand.

- if having trouble finding a weak spot along the seams, use a dremel saw or cutting disk to cut through an angle - not along the seams, or you risk damaging cells. Then insert a large flatbladed screwdriver in the cut, twist, and the pack should start coming apart.

- if you want to build a pack with the harvested cells, you might want to keep the tabs instead of twisting them off, as it makes soldering a lot easier and safer. On the other hand, if you don't want to build a pack, then twisting them off is mandatory, or they'll cause shorts when put in battery tubes.


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## flatline

Here's the recipe I use to determine which cells are healthy enough to be usable. If any of you see something that could be improved, please let me know (I think I'm probably being too conservative, but don't really know for sure).

1. measure cell voltage. if it's less than 2.5v, throw it away.
2. charge the cell. if it gets hot during charging, throw it away.
3. measure cell voltage off the charger. verify it's between 4.1 and 4.2v.
4. wait 30 minutes
5. measure cell voltage. if it's fallen less than 4v, throw it away. Otherwise record the voltage.
6. store cell for 3+ days in cool, dry place.
7. measure cell voltage. if cell voltage has fallen more than .1v from the recorded voltage, throw it away.

Any cell that hasn't been thrown away by the time I'm through with step 7, I keep and put into my regular cell rotation.

EDIT: I'm no authority, but since nobody tried to correct me, I'm willing to assume that there's nothing obviously wrong with the above recipe.

--flatline


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## csshih

added a link to your tips, thanks for the contributions!!


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## Search

The tenth picture, the very top right battery. It says USA. I didn't think they made 18650s in the USA. I'm guessing it's not made in the USA.


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## kramer5150

Nice tutorial!! Congrats on not lighting your house on fire!!

I do believe Lenovo uses Sanyo cells. FWIW, in my SF-6P with MC-E drop in these cells deliver 2.3A while AW IMR delivers 2.65A. In my P7 light (which I am intentionally under-driving) these sanyo cells deliver 1.65A, while an AW IMR pumps out 1.85A. These are all average measurements from two IMR and 6 Sanyo cells. Measurements taken at the tailcap.

I have pulled apart probably 10 packs and have found pink cells from Samsung, green and blues from Sony, and Panasonics of all different colors. So far these red Sanyos are by far the best performing, from a current output standpoint. I am not sure what their capacity is, but I would guess its around 1800-2000 mah (?).

So these particular cells, while not the absolute best, are certainly serviceable.

Couple tips I have picked up along the way..
-I do this kind of DIY work outside, on my brick patio. That way if there is a fire I just let them burn, and stand by with a hose. I still exercise caution though. One time I was rescuing some cells and I accidentally shorted some wires which started to SMOKE and glow orange. The pack lit up and I threw the flaming pack into the bathtub before the cells vented, and covered it with a wet towel. That was too close for comfort!!

I make sure I use tools that are blunt and smooth ALL OVER. Even the back sides of cutters and pliers. One time I shorted out a cell with my wire cutter. I was cutting a +ive wire and the back side of my wire cutters scraped through the heat shrink, shorting -ive to +ive. It melted a metal spot on my tool. 

-Once I free the cells I measure each one. Any cell that measures below ~3.25V gets tossed. I usually end up tossing 2-3 cells out of each group of 9.

-If you wanted to meet up, just PM me. I can dremel off the weld spots from the ends for you. Those little spots on the ends of the cell will chew up your light. Your light collection is $$$$$, and its worth the added effort. Heres what mine look like after dremeling...









Good job!!:twothumbs


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## rizky_p

Nice guide. Those look exactly like Sanyo cells, probably they are. Good performance, DD my MCE light @2.4-2.5A. I bought them as loose cells cost 7USD each.

I tested 2 Sanyo cells @2A discharge came up close to 2400mah. the seller said it is Sanyo 2000. probably Sanyo state the min capacity.


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## csshih

Search said:


> The tenth picture, the very top right battery. It says USA. I didn't think they made 18650s in the USA. I'm guessing it's not made in the USA.



actually, it says "L18A".. close.. 
thank you for the offer kramer  . I should be fine at the moment.


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## ^Gurthang

Very nice tutorial, well written and good pics. I've harvested LOTS of cells from some Dell laptop packs and the best part [besides the cells] is the packs make excellent carry cases. 

Dell cases are 6 cell rectangular packs, just carefully pry open from the connector end until the case separates. Extract the cell pack by the PCB end first, clip the PCB connections then separate the cells as CSSHIH demonstrates.


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## bshanahan14rulz

I've noticed that many battery packs come with the Texas Instruments charging and monitoring chipsets (bq29330 cell protection, bq20z70P monitoring chip for the one I'm holding right now). What's the potential for turning this charger PCB into a 4-cell balancing charger? There are 6 pins connected to the pcb that go to the computer, but only 5 are labeled: P+, P-, T, C, and D. A lot of it is silk-screened, so kinda hard to reverse-construct the circuit. Do you think it may be just as easy as powering the P+ and P- pins? I could care less about the monitoring of the cells, but I would like for it to charge correctly though. But if we can figure out a cheap way to make a 4-cell charger out of the battery packs, we could save quite a bit on balancing hobby chargers. 

BTW, my lenovo packs have sanyo cells, HP pack(mfd. 2007) had samsung 2200mAh. macbook had sony li-poly flats

Edit: opened a new MBP pack, contains 6 2820mAh Sanyo LiPoly flats. PN: UPF644496M. charging current: 1.8A! Uses bq29312apw and bq 20Z80A for cell protection and cell monitoring. Cells look to have been made jan. 08. Will keep them in pairs, too much tape to take the 3 pairs apart.


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## csshih

sorry for not noticing your post.. 
indeed, macs now use lipo cells.. so no 18650s 
(but they do have good cap as more space in the battery pack is actually used)

I have no idea about the charging circuit idea. perhaps someone more educated could chime in.


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## LuxLuthor

Actually a very useful, well done, and with appropriate cautions on safety. Thanks to everyone and showing how to do it right. Those look like the Sanyo I used to upgrade some packs for Lips.


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## alfreddajero

Hey buddy im glad you posted this up.....me and the wife were cleaning up the spare bedroom to find her old Dell lappy.....and going through this thread last night i was like why not.....i of course asked her for permission and she gave me the go ahead. I had my asian buddy Craig call me up and asked about the voltage per cell and what they should be, he said that all 8cells were fine.....at this moment i have four cells charging up.....this is a great way to save money.


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## csshih

LuxLuthor said:


> Actually a very useful, well done, and with appropriate cautions on safety. Thanks to everyone and showing how to do it right. Those look like the Sanyo I used to upgrade some packs for Lips.



very nice work, lux! some cool work you do.
..and I just realized.. you're the creator of that 10.8V 9 cell pack I have.. no wonder I couldn't find any info elsewhere on it!

glad you got those cells out without a problem Al.. cheers!


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## Mik

I recently saw this thread, and starting asking people I know if they have any Li-Ion laptop batteries that they would like to get rid of. Lots of people had them, so now I have a bundle of incoming packs to take apart soon. Thanks for all the info in this thread. I am hoping that I get a few good ones!


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## alfreddajero

I was lucky with mine.....it seemed that all eight of the cells work properly.


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## csshih

Cool Mik!
Let us know how they go.. It's cool having many different packs, you'll have many colors of cells! 

Stay safe,


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## bshanahan14rulz

How can you tell which ones are better than the others, short of doing a runtime test, given that they all were harvested and found to be at save voltages?


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## Lightcrazycanuck

bshanahan14rulz said:


> How can you tell which ones are better than the others, short of doing a runtime test, given that they all were harvested and found to be at save voltages?


 

Read post #8.


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## flatline

Lightcrazycanuck said:


> Read post #8.



Actually, I posted post #8 hoping that someone would let me know if I was on the right track. I'm certainly no authority.

--flatline


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## zelda

Thanks for sharing this information, some types of packs are not easy to open it without a damage/burn etc...  this from lenovo are simple.

I opened a lot of T60 battery packs, ~80% had different voltage per pair. (0.1 - 0.3V difference) Normaly the electronic correct this, maybe a too big gap and the electronic shut it off, 
permanently --> it can't be charged anymore in the laptop.

 Removing the solder tab on anode with a plier might break a contact inside! I lost a lot of cell with this method! :hairpull:

I do this now with a dremel, grind with caution the 4 weld points.


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## Kremer

flatline said:


> Actually, I posted post #8 hoping that someone would let me know if I was on the right track. I'm certainly no authority.
> --flatline


That seems pretty reasonable to me. Of the 5 or so non-functional Dell laptop packs I've taken apart so far I've only tossed 4 cells. two were 0V, two were 1.xV both were paralleled sets. The remainder of the cells were 3V+ and charged right up to 4.17 on my Pila and have held within .1 of that for months after.


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## Mik

Just a little update on my situation. I started asking for batteries yesterday, and today I have 7 packs plus one grouping of 4 cells that a friend had already removed from the battery case. I pulled the tabs off of the 4 cells without a case, and found them to all be junk (I should have voltage tested them before pulling the tabs to see if I broke them, or they came to me bad). Two of them registered 0v, one of them is .2v and one is 3.2v. I haven't opened any of the other cases up. I think all of them that I have so far are Dell brand. 3 of them are marked "MADE IN JAPAN" and the rest say "MADE IN CHINA" and on a separate label say "CELLS MADE IN KOREA". Once I get ready to tear into the packs, I'll take pictures along the way similar to what the OP has done for us. Hopefully I am as lucky, and don't need to use the box of emergency sand.


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## flatline

zelda said:


> Removing the solder tab on anode with a plier might break a contact inside! I lost a lot of cell with this method! :hairpull:
> 
> I do this now with a dremel, grind with caution the 4 weld points.



I didn't bother to remove the solder tab from the six cells I've salvaged. I just trimmed them and removed the sharp edges. My L-mini has springs for both ends of the battery, so I figure it should always make a good connection even in the presence of the solder tab.

I do have a dremel, but I'm not very confident in my skills with it. I'll wait until I have a bad cell to practice on before I attempt to grind the welds out of the soldering tab on one of my good cells.

--flatline


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## u238

I just pulled a bunch of these, but scuffed the wrapper of a few. The shrink wrap is incredibly thin and delicate. Can anyone think of a way to repair the wrapper?


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## flatline

u238 said:


> I just pulled a bunch of these, but scuffed the wrapper of a few. The shrink wrap is incredibly thin and delicate. Can anyone think of a way to repair the wrapper?



I don't think the integrity of the cell is dependent on the wrapper, so you're probably fine just removing it if it's damaged. Just verify that the cell itself isn't damaged before you use it.

Disclaimer: don't follow my advice until others have had sufficient time to correct me if I've said something bone-headed.

--flatline


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## kramer5150

u238 said:


> I just pulled a bunch of these, but scuffed the wrapper of a few. The shrink wrap is incredibly thin and delicate. Can anyone think of a way to repair the wrapper?



Yes the shrink wrap on laptop cells is VERY thin and delicate. Its been the cause of a couple fires that I have experienced, during cell extraction.

I just used 3M clear packaging tape.

Note that you can use the cell, but it will direct contact -B to the body of the light. So there is the chance that you will not be able to turn the light off. depending on how severe the damage is.


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## u238

kramer5150 said:


> Yes the shrink wrap on laptop cells is VERY thin and delicate. Its been the cause of a couple fires that I have experienced, during cell extraction.
> 
> I just used 3M clear packaging tape.
> 
> Note that you can use the cell, but it will direct contact -B to the body of the light. So there is the chance that you will not be able to turn the light off. depending on how severe the damage is.



I'm most worried about the edges at the + end peeling away while snipping the cells out of the pack has already caused some sparking for me.  The packing tape is a good idea though, being much thinner than the electrical tape I was using.


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## scriverdog

I hope you'll indulge me with is probably a dumb question.

I have a toshiba battery pack that contains green Sony cells. I've not disassembled it yet so maybe the answer to my question will reveal itself when I do but I'll ask anyway.

as with the sanyo cells in the images posted in this thread there are no markings on the shrink wrap of the Sony's to distinguish anode and cathode.

how does one determine the positive and negative terminals of each cell ?


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## SilverFox

Hello Scriverdog,

Welcome to CPF.

A voltmeter works great for that.

Tom


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## alfreddajero

The pic on the left is the + and the pic on the right is the -.


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## kramer5150

scriverdog said:


> I hope you'll indulge me with is probably a dumb question.
> 
> I have a toshiba battery pack that contains green Sony cells. I've not disassembled it yet so maybe the answer to my question will reveal itself when I do but I'll ask anyway.
> 
> as with the sanyo cells in the images posted in this thread there are no markings on the shrink wrap of the Sony's to distinguish anode and cathode.
> 
> how does one determine the positive and negative terminals of each cell ?



Sony greenies...

Positive





Negative





You can just use a multimeter and test for cell polarity.
*
Anyone doing this procedure ABSOLUTELY MUST use a multi-meter to test for cell voltage. This is a VITAL and CRITICAL safety procedure that MUST be performed if you want to reduce your likelihood of a vent/flame incident. Using cells depleted beyond ~3.25V inter-mixed with good/healthy cells can result in a vent/flame incident.

These are NOT BATTERIES, and should NOT be treated like they are. They are Lithium Ion cells, incendiary devices capable of doing severe damage and causing injury in the wrong conditions.*

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/262234


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## soghol

Is there a way to use the whole laptop battery (batteries + Pcb) as an external battery pack for a bike light.
Wondering what's the best way to charge it, is it simply just connect it with the power brick from the same laptop type, or is it more complex than that?
Thanks.


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## Kilted

flatline said:


> Here's the recipe I use to determine which cells are healthy enough to be usable. If any of you see something that could be improved, please let me know (I think I'm probably being too conservative, but don't really know for sure).
> 
> 1. measure cell voltage. if it's less than 2.5v, throw it away.
> 2. charge the cell. if it gets hot during charging, throw it away.
> 3. measure cell voltage off the charger. verify it's between 4.1 and 4.2v.
> 4. wait 30 minutes
> 5. measure cell voltage. if it's fallen less than 4v, throw it away. Otherwise record the voltage.
> 6. store cell for 3+ days in cool, dry place.
> 7. measure cell voltage. if cell voltage has fallen more than .1v from the recorded voltage, throw it away.
> 
> Any cell that hasn't been thrown away by the time I'm through with step 7, I keep and put into my regular cell rotation.
> 
> EDIT: I'm no authority, but since nobody tried to correct me, I'm willing to assume that there's nothing obviously wrong with the above recipe.
> 
> --flatline



I did the same thing a few years ago and finished with about 24 cells. I could not use all 24 at one time and I have a added additional steps:

8. After having been charged and on the shelf for 6 months check OC voltage and if below min. stated above discard. I cycle through all on shelf cells about every six months.
9. Check for fine crystals around the postive terminal, if you find any discard.

What do you use for a charger? I have been using a Maha C777 in LiIon mode I would like a more convient charger.


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## flatline

I bought the Pila charger and have had no issues at all so far. I use it for both the salvaged unprotected 18650s and for the protected 14500s I use in my Quark and LF5XT.

I'm still a bit paranoid, though. When I charge my cells, I put the charger in an open ammo can that sits on top of a granite counter near the back door. If something goes wrong, I can grab the can and throw it out the door.

Also, I only use my cells in lights that have over discharge protection (L-mini and PLI) and even then, I never run my cells below 3.7v.

--flatline


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## Kilted

flatline said:


> I bought the Pila charger and have had no issues at all so far. I use it for both the salvaged unprotected 18650s and for the protected 14500s I use in my Quark and LF5XT.
> 
> I'm still a bit paranoid, though. When I charge my cells, I put the charger in an open ammo can that sits on top of a granite counter near the back door. If something goes wrong, I can grab the can and throw it out the door.
> 
> Also, I only use my cells in lights that have over discharge protection (L-mini and PLI) and even then, I never run my cells below 3.7v.
> 
> --flatline



Flatline,

I have the older Pila BC2 charger. It's output is listed as 4.6v DC. From everything I read this would overcharge an unprotected cell.

I suspect this charger depended on the protection circuit to end the charge.

Any thoughts?

Thank you =D~~ Kilted


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## alfreddajero

The Maha C777 doesnt charge lithiums only nimh and nicads.


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## Kilted

alfreddajero said:


> The Maha C777 doesnt charge lithiums only nimh and nicads.



Funny you should say that, then how come;

http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=185&cur=specs#mid

Chemistry Supported:
Lithium Ion, Nickel Metal Hydride, Nickel Cadmium

spec sheet says it does and there is a nickel/lithium switch on my unit.

=D~~ Kilted


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## rufusbduck

u238 said:


> I just pulled a bunch of these, but scuffed the wrapper of a few. The shrink wrap is incredibly thin and delicate. Can anyone think of a way to repair the wrapper?


 
You can buy heat shrink tubing from dx, kd, or local electronics store. Cut pieces ~ 1/4" longer than the cells and carefully heat with small torch, match, etc. It's actually a good way to make up multicell packs after you have soldered the taps.


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## alfreddajero

Well if you had told us which version you had then maybe just maybe i would have done a proper search.....lol. Give us the right info so we can get it straight.


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## flatline

Kilted said:


> Flatline,
> 
> I have the older Pila BC2 charger. It's output is listed as 4.6v DC. From everything I read this would overcharge an unprotected cell.
> 
> I suspect this charger depended on the protection circuit to end the charge.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thank you =D~~ Kilted



It's my understanding that the earlier Pila chargers (don't know the models, but perhaps your's is one) depended on the protection circuitry of the battery to cut off properly. If you suspect you might have one of those chargers, don't use it with unprotected cells.

Actually, I'd recommend you don't use it at all just in case you have a cell with faulty protection.

--flatline


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## Kilted

flatline said:


> It's my understanding that the earlier Pila chargers (don't know the models, but perhaps your's is one) depended on the protection circuitry of the battery to cut off properly. If you suspect you might have one of those chargers, don't use it with unprotected cells.
> 
> Actually, I'd recommend you don't use it at all just in case you have a cell with faulty protection.
> 
> --flatline



Flatline,

Thank you thats what I wanted to know.


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## Kilted

flatline said:


> It's my understanding that the earlier Pila chargers (don't know the models, but perhaps your's is one) depended on the protection circuitry of the battery to cut off properly. If you suspect you might have one of those chargers, don't use it with unprotected cells.
> 
> Actually, I'd recommend you don't use it at all just in case you have a cell with faulty protection.
> 
> --flatline


Flatline,

I am putting Fenix TA21 kit for my brother. I brought a new Pila IBC charger for him. So I tried it, I like it and will order one for me.

Thanks for the suggestion. I did not know the Pila charger could charge unprotected 18650's.

=D~~ Kilted


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## l_____l

I happened to see a post on Craigslist in the FREE section for computer parts and printers on the curb...come get what ya want, and found a dozen laptop batteries! I've opened up 3 packs so far...1st one, all cells 0.00V! 2nd, found 2 18650's at 3.60V, the 3rd pack was for a Dell, 14.8V at 4460mAh of which ALL 8 cells were between 3.58V and 3.69V!! These are the Sony Fukushima US18650GR (G5 version). 

When tearing down Li-Ion packs, keep them in _parallel pairs_ at first. Test the pairs for voltage, then separate one end and test again to see if they are exactly the same voltage! Mark them as P1 (for pair one as an example). That way you know you have a "pair" that is good to use in other applications, such as bike lights, and that pair is still "matched". If you find a "pair" that one is 3.59V and the 2nd in the "pair" is 2.49V, you know to properly dispose of the 2.49V cell! 

As for chargers, I have a TrustFire TR-001 that works well for me. I also have a Tenergy Smart Charger http://www.tenergybattery.com/index...facturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=27 






This has a switch for 3.7v,7.4v,11.1v and 14.8v. Like the TR-001, it has a 500mA output. I am kicking myself for selling my MAHA 777Plus, as that was the best charger I ever had, and...now *discontinued! *

I'm now looking at the *Tenergy Micro-Controlled Li-Po/Li-ion Balance Charger w/ LCD Display (Item Number: 01200)* See: http://www.tenergybattery.com/index...facturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=27





But, for most, this may be overkill! 

I enjoyed the thread, 

-Pace


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## csshih

stay safe and have fun!


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## rockz4532

Thanks a ton for the tutorial. I found a "bad" dell pack to take apart. It took me around an hour to extract the cells. I didn't want to risk anything happening, so the hour was long and I was  when something slipped. Luckily, nothing bad happened. Now i have pink samsung cells, marked ICR-18650-26A with SD1 and 654 below it. I measured all 6 cells, they were all at a healthy 4.15v, so much for "bad". 
Can someone experianced with batteries verify if these cells are good? I hooked up the 18650s to a 1 amp load and all of the cells dropped from 4.15 to around 3.9-3.95. Is that good?

Currently I'm letting the cells sit for a week to see if theres some un-normal voltage drop.

One last thing, does anyone know how to get rid of the 4 sharp prongs on the terminals without a dremel? I don't have one and it seems pretty risky with a dremel...


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## l_____l

rockz4532 said:


> Thanks a ton for the tutorial. I found a "bad" dell pack to take apart. It took me around an hour to extract the cells. I didn't want to risk anything happening, so the hour was long and I was  when something slipped. Luckily, nothing bad happened. Now i have pink samsung cells, marked ICR-18650-26A with SD1 and 654 below it. I measured all 6 cells, they were all at a healthy 4.15v, so much for "bad".
> Can someone experianced with batteries verify if these cells are good? I hooked up the 18650s to a 1 amp load and all of the cells dropped from 4.15 to around 3.9-3.95. Is that good?
> 
> Currently I'm letting the cells sit for a week to see if theres some un-normal voltage drop.
> 
> One last thing, does anyone know how to get rid of the 4 sharp prongs on the terminals without a dremel? I don't have one and it seems pretty risky with a dremel...



Geezzeee....First time rippin Li-Ion packs apart? ??

18650 cells are the rule in "most" laptop battery packs. Often times, it's one cell that fails, or the circuit board that has failed.

In any event, the "pack" is void. (Singel cell separation) !

Li-Ion battery "packs" are created to provide up to 14.8V for portable devices. A single cell is rated at 4.2V, and "dead" at 3.5V. 

So, what happened? Are you trying to power an automobile? Probably not, nonetheless, "most" defective laptop battery packs are due to users who have no clue as to recharging Lithium Ion batteries. 

Be safe, for LiFEp04 is not yet being used in cell phones! 

Use "google.com" to learn!


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## rockz4532

I know about 18650s. I want to know what kind of voltages under load are acceptable. 

Also, if anyone knows, how should I discharge test the cells to see how well they match up to the 2600 mAh capacity? My charger has a discharge function that goes from .1-1.0 Amps and has a programmable voltage cutoff.


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## Egsise

Nice pictures!

I use WF-139 to charge my unprotected Li-ions.
The problem is, there are very few 18650 lights that have built in overdischarge and reverse polarity protection.
MG PLI MC-E warm white has one, it doesn't cut off at 2,8V but it starts to flash.
The new MG flashlights has this feature too because the circuit is the same.


----------



## etc

I do the same thing. I use single 18650 in a FiveMega body with Malkoff M60L and it works nicely. With unprotected cells, you can really tell when they dip below 3.7V, visually.


----------



## xamindar

Has anyone come across 3.6v cells? When I initially tried charging one 18650 cell from a laptop battery pack it got very hot when the voltage got above 4.10v on the charger. I then switched the charger from the 3.7v li-ion to the 3.6v li-ion setting and the batteries all charged to the end without getting warm. Is it just possible these batteries are bad? Or is it possible some made were of the 3.6v kind instead of 3.7?

The charger reported very close to 1300mah when it finished each one. I have not tried to cycle them yet.


----------



## koala

Before you go salvage your cells, ripping the welded tabs off *can cause micro-puncture* on Sony cells. I don't know what is the result of using a punctured cell and I don't know how other cells are made. I punctured a cell when pulling the tabs many years ago. So inspect the surface of the negative contact before use.


----------



## LuxLuthor

rockz4532 said:


> I know about 18650s. I want to know what kind of voltages under load are acceptable.
> 
> Also, if anyone knows, how should I discharge test the cells to see how well they match up to the 2600 mAh capacity? My charger has a discharge function that goes from .1-1.0 Amps and has a programmable voltage cutoff.






koala said:


> Before you go salvage your cells, ripping the welded tabs off *can cause micro-puncture* on Sony cells. I don't know what is the result of using a punctured cell and I don't know how other cells are made. *I punctured a cell when pulling the tabs many years ago.* So inspect the surface of the negative contact before use.



So have I, but didn't realize it until sanding off the weld burrs with my Dremel sander. That was the only close call I have had, but I'm hyper-safety conscious doing things like this, checking voltages out the wazoo, and always doing most work with Lithium cells either outside, or in the garage so if there is a venting, I drop on concrete, or metal pail of sand, push the garage opener button to vent as I'm running inside.


----------



## flatline

I've never bothered to remove the welded on tabs when I salvage cells. I just trim the tabs down with a diagonal cutter and smooth the edges so that I don't cut myself on them later.

Besides aesthetics, is there a reason to actually remove the tin(?) tabs welded to the cells in a laptop pack?

--flatline


----------



## lemlux

After I twist off the main part of the negative end tab with needle nose pliers I deal with the the four sharp tig-weld prongs by gently tapping the battery on a tempered glass surface. The result is an uneven but not sharp surface.

As for the tabs on top, I usually leave enough material so that I can double, triple or quadruple fold the tab remnant to make a quasi button. I then tap this end on tempered glass as well until the surface is smooth to the touch. Accordingly, on most lights except those with the smallest diameter recesses for anode contact I can avoid having to use a small magnet to make contact.


----------



## lemlux

After I twist off the main part of the negative end tab with needle nose pliers I deal with the the four sharp tig-weld prongs by gently tapping the battery on a tempered glass surface. The result is an uneven but not sharp surface.

As for the tabs on top, I usually leave enough material so that I can double, triple or quadruple fold the tab remnant to make a quasi button. I then tap this end on tempered glass as well until the surface is relatively smooth to the touch. Accordingly, on most lights except those with the smallest diameter recesses for anode contact I can avoid having to use a small magnet to make contact.


----------



## LuxLuthor

flatline said:


> I've never bothered to remove the welded on tabs when I salvage cells. I just trim the tabs down with a diagonal cutter and smooth the edges so that I don't cut myself on them later.
> 
> Besides aesthetics, is there a reason to actually remove the tin(?) tabs welded to the cells in a laptop pack?
> 
> --flatline



Yes. To make sure you have even contact surfaces in applications, and for when I re-spot weld battery tabs & balance leads, I need a flat, clean surface for the strip metal weld bonding.


----------



## flatline

LuxLuthor said:


> Yes. To make sure you have even contact surfaces in applications, and for when I re-spot weld battery tabs & balance leads, I need a flat, clean surface for the strip metal weld bonding.



My MG L-mini II's have springs at both ends of the battery, so I'm confident that it's making a good contact.

I'll never use these cells in a multi-cell configuration, so I don't have to worry about good connections between cells. Just the connections at either end of the battery tube.

It sounds like you're doing some really interesting things with your cells. If you don't mind me asking, could you describe some of your projects?

--flatline


----------



## stu929

First I would like to say Im new to higher end flashlights and do not know a ton about the subject

I pulled 12 of these out of an old pack that I had. Charged them they all drop back down to right around 3.8-3.92. I tried to do a run time test but I was concerned about discharging the cells to far. That being said my 3.9v battery was still at 3.8+ after running for an hour with an R2 drop-in on high. 

While not optimal how long would you think these would serve me and how much am I giving up by them not staying charged to the full 4.2v? What kind of run times can I expect with these? 

I'm currently driving some DX drop ins from C2 and other hosts with them. 

Thanks


----------



## Lion251

I also harvested some (9) old cells from a laptop pack.
The cells were originally 1500 or 1600 mAh (I don't have them here at the moment), and about 1000 mAh remain.
From the discharge voltage curve it seems that these are still cells with cokes instead of graphite (voltage dropping more quickly than with modern cells, at 3,5V quite a lot of charge is remaining).
But now for the strange part: they keep their charging voltage remarkably well. A cell that is charged to 4.20 V will, after two weeks(!) still show 4.19 or 4.18V.
I intend to use these cells in a very low drain application, where they need to keep their charge for maybe a year or so, static current draw will be 2 uA, with an episode (seconds to minutes) of 50 mA every few days.
I think these cells can do that, but isn't it unusual that cells this old still keep their voltage so well?


----------



## jellydonut

I ripped open an OEM replacement pack from some no-name company the other day as its host laptop was destined to the scrapyard. The 18650s inside were 700mAh at most when new so really just something I did to see if it could be done. The metal tabs were easy to twist off by grabbing them and twisting to one side with a plier. Same as one would do on the cap covers on oil drums really.


----------



## etc

I have about a 100 of 18650 cells from various cell packs.

About half Green ones, with the capacity of only 1800 mAh. It has to be even less than that now. 

I only have about a dozen that are even 2600 mAh.


----------



## dwestonh

Thanks for the hint on clear 3m packing tape. Now I will not try to get all the stickiness off the two sided tape.
Just wrap it up. I was using a teflon pan scraper. Now I am set to go. Next I will start labeling before wrapping.
Maybe instead of "from the library of" , "free battery salvaged from laptop"
Now I will have to decide how many spare batteries per flashlight.
Good thing I can sneak off to going gear without the wife catching me.
Maybe a walking stick battery holder with much springs on both ends. 
Maybe one of those. Walkers for old folks, that should hold more.
Fifty round shotshell bandoliers. I think that would be a start.


----------



## Cypher_Aod

about two years ago i disassembled a thinkpad battery-pack (a cheap chinese replacement actually) with the intent of replacing the cells, but i never got around to it.
the six cells had been sitting on my windowsill, in the rain, breeze, sun and dust ever since.

i realised about three hours ago that, as 18650 cells, i might be able to use them in my lights, so i separated them, removed all the welded connector-tags and checked them all with a multimeter, and despite them having been sitting there for *two years* every single one of them was 4.05V or higher (4.05, 4.05, 4.07, 4.08, 4.08, 4.08)

one of the cells was dented/deformed at the bottom, so i threw it away, but the other five appear to be healthy, they all seem to power my lights up just fine (including my 2.8A XM-L)
the Cells have CGR18650AF on the side, which i googled and saw means that they are (or were) Panasonic 2050mAh cells with a 4A max discharge current.

i don't currently have a 18650 charger, but otherwise do you guys think that they're likely to be safe to use?

Also, can someone recommend me a 18650-charger, preferably affordable? is the "Ultrafire WF 139 Charger" from flashaholics.co.uk any good?


----------



## HooNz

Cypher_Aod said:


> about two years ago i disassembled a thinkpad battery-pack (a cheap chinese replacement actually) with the intent of replacing the cells, but i never got around to it.
> the six cells had been sitting on my windowsill, in the rain, breeze, sun and dust ever since.
> 
> i realised about three hours ago that, as 18650 cells, i might be able to use them in my lights, so i separated them, removed all the welded connector-tags and checked them all with a multimeter, and despite them having been sitting there for *two years* every single one of them was 4.05V or higher (4.05, 4.05, 4.07, 4.08, 4.08, 4.08)
> 
> one of the cells was dented/deformed at the bottom, so i threw it away, but the other five appear to be healthy, they all seem to power my lights up just fine (including my 2.8A XM-L)
> the Cells have CGR18650AF on the side, which i googled and saw means that they are (or were) Panasonic 2050mAh cells with a 4A max discharge current.
> 
> i don't currently have a 18650 charger, but otherwise do you guys think that they're likely to be safe to use?
> 
> Also, can someone recommend me a 18650-charger, preferably affordable? is the "Ultrafire WF 139 Charger" from flashaholics.co.uk any good?



Sun ? in London , your pulling my leg  , but WoW , thats a advert for brand longevity .


----------



## Cypher_Aod

We get Sun in London quite frequently actually. it's just everywhere _else_ in the UK that's permanently overcast


----------



## HooNz

Cypher_Aod said:


> We get Sun in London quite frequently actually. it's just everywhere _else_ in the UK that's permanently overcast


 
I would like proof of this event :naughty: , just what day did it happen , or what actual year  , the actual hour of sunshine would be interesting information also .
Was the event reported in the newspapers ? 

:thumbsup:


----------



## Cypher_Aod

Photo's will be posted as soon as the sun comes up 

Photos of our glorious London sunshine:











This is me!





My Charger (Xtar WP2) arrived today, charged all the cells up from their 4.05-ish levels till the charger decided they were full at 4.15V they didn't get even the slightest bit warm during the charge, that said, it only took about 25-35 minutes for each cell to finish.

I tested one of them in my XM-L monster on max (2.88A draw!) - i had it on for at least half an hour, maybe more (wasn't keeping track of time, did it in three bursts) and the cell read 3.79V after a 15 minute rest after the abuse - very impressive, the cell didn't even get warm from the draw!

most of the cells are now reading 4.14V about an hour after they were charged... is this normal?


----------



## cdrake261

Crap...and I just got rid of 4 laptop batteries last month


----------



## kramer5150

Cypher_Aod said:


> about two years ago i disassembled a thinkpad battery-pack (a cheap chinese replacement actually) with the intent of replacing the cells, but i never got around to it.
> the six cells had been sitting on my windowsill, in the rain, breeze, sun and dust ever since.
> 
> *i realised about three hours ago that, as 18650 cells, i might be able to use them in my lights, so i separated them, removed all the welded connector-tags and checked them all with a multimeter, and despite them having been sitting there for two years every single one of them was 4.05V or higher (4.05, 4.05, 4.07, 4.08, 4.08, 4.08)
> *
> one of the cells was dented/deformed at the bottom, so i threw it away, but the other five appear to be healthy, they all seem to power my lights up just fine (including my 2.8A XM-L)
> the Cells have CGR18650AF on the side, which i googled and saw means that they are (or were) Panasonic 2050mAh cells with a 4A max discharge current.



Sorry to resurrect an ancient thread... but this does not surprise me one bit. The Panasonic CGR18650 cells I have can hold a charge for at least 8-9 months (the longest I have ever tested them) at 4.15V or higher. The hold a charge longer/better than the Samsung, Sony and Sanyo cells I have tested. That probably one of the reasons AW uses panasonics for his non-IMR cells (my understanding).


----------



## sxl168

In addition to the many rules posted here for using laptop cells, I have a few comments from the past 2 years of recovering laptop batteries. 2.5 volts is a good low voltage threshold for safety circuits, however I have found 1.50 volts to be the absolute limit for cell cutoff extracting from packs. One way I test cells that suffer from low voltage is to charge the cell at 0.05C until the cell reaches 3.0 volts. Once there, remove the cell from charger and let stand for a week. If it falls back below 2.0 volts, it's a dud, if it's above that, most likely no damage has been done and can be charged normally after that. I have come to this conclusion after evaluating >500 cells and having fully cycled every one of those cells for capacity check. The only exception to this is if you accidentally short a cell trying to extract it while it was under 2.5 volts. It may very well be a good cell even though it reads under 1.5 volts. Just use the above procedure to check it. One nice advantage for this test is that there is almost no risk of fire as the energy stored in the cell for this test is almost nil, the big reason I prefer to do the leakage test at low charge instead of full charge listed in this thread. The charge leakage in the 2.0-3.0 volt range is also highly sensitive as the cell generally only takes on about 50-100 mAh in that range. A leakage rate of a hundred microamps will be easily noticed over a week. The full charge leakage test is a good second test however, if it passed the low voltage leakage test.

One other thing I didn't see mentioned is that even though cells are found which have good voltage, this in no way means the cell is useful. A capacity and internal resistance check should be done on each individual cell before using them. Any cells having under 75% of nameplate capacity will have really high internal resistance and should not be used. Roughly speaking from my 500 or so cells 60 or so were shorted or read under 1.50 Volts. 150 or so had a good voltage but failed the 75% capacity check. 100 or so that read between 75% and 90%, and the rest act if brand new never used.

I you happen to find a pack with foil cells in them, any cells that have "ballooned" should never be used. I have dissected several of these to see the insides and extract the Cobalt from the electrodes. After close examination, I saw some metallic lithium had plated onto the plastic separator (This is very bad as metallic Lithium should never be present in a normally operating Li-Ion). After being exposed to the air for 20 sec or so, the separator spontaneously caught fire where the metallic Lithium was, just a warning for that. These were from Apple Macbooks A1185 batteries. Some of those were known to have faulty protection circuits. BTW, If anyone else decides to see the insides of a cell, make sure the cell is fully discharged before doing so (<2.5 volts) and do it outside oo:. Do not short the cells to discharge as the thermal protector may trip and the cell will still be charged.

As a side note to the above posters, I too have to agree that the Panasonic cells are really good as I have had an orange set that I had taken out of a pack back in 2005 which sat in storage until a few weeks back when I decided to test them again. They were stored at 3.82 volts when I put them in storage at room temperature, after storage they read 3.78 and had >95% of nameplate capacity after testing them. Pretty darn amazing, IMO.


----------



## ico

I opened the battery of a Dell Inspiron some time ago and it has a different kind of battery source. Its not 18650's since they were rectangular and about 4-6mm thick. What kind of batteries are those?


----------



## cdrake261

ico said:


> I opened the battery of a Dell Inspiron some time ago and it has a different kind of battery source. Its not 18650's since they were rectangular and about 4-6mm thick. What kind of batteries are those?



do they look like these?






Somebody suggested poly ion batteries


----------



## Cypher_Aod

kramer5150 said:


> Sorry to resurrect an ancient thread... but this does not surprise me one bit. The Panasonic CGR18650 cells I have can hold a charge for at least 8-9 months (the longest I have ever tested them) at 4.15V or higher. The hold a charge longer/better than the Samsung, Sony and Sanyo cells I have tested. That probably one of the reasons AW uses panasonics for his non-IMR cells (my understanding).


 
Good to know! I'm fairly sure that if I ever actually _buy_ any 18650s they'll be Panasonics or AWs 



sxl168 said:


> In addition to the many rules posted here for using laptop cells, I have a few comments from the past 2 years of recovering laptop batteries. 2.5 volts is a good low voltage threshold for safety circuits, however I have found 1.50 volts to be the absolute limit for cell cutoff extracting from packs. One way I test cells that suffer from low voltage is to charge the cell at 0.05C until the cell reaches 3.0 volts. Once there, remove the cell from charger and let stand for a week. If it falls back below 2.0 volts, it's a dud, if it's above that, most likely no damage has been done and can be charged normally after that. I have come to this conclusion after evaluating >500 cells and having fully cycled every one of those cells for capacity check. The only exception to this is if you accidentally short a cell trying to extract it while it was under 2.5 volts. It may very well be a good cell even though it reads under 1.5 volts. Just use the above procedure to check it. One nice advantage for this test is that there is almost no risk of fire as the energy stored in the cell for this test is almost nil, the big reason I prefer to do the leakage test at low charge instead of full charge listed in this thread. The charge leakage in the 2.0-3.0 volt range is also highly sensitive as the cell generally only takes on about 50-100 mAh in that range. A leakage rate of a hundred microamps will be easily noticed over a week. The full charge leakage test is a good second test however, if it passed the low voltage leakage test.
> 
> One other thing I didn't see mentioned is that even though cells are found which have good voltage, this in no way means the cell is useful. A capacity and internal resistance check should be done on each individual cell before using them. Any cells having under 75% of nameplate capacity will have really high internal resistance and should not be used. Roughly speaking from my 500 or so cells 60 or so were shorted or read under 1.50 Volts. 150 or so had a good voltage but failed the 75% capacity check. 100 or so that read between 75% and 90%, and the rest act if brand new never used.
> 
> I you happen to find a pack with foil cells in them, any cells that have "ballooned" should never be used. I have dissected several of these to see the insides and extract the Cobalt from the electrodes. After close examination, I saw some metallic lithium had plated onto the plastic separator (This is very bad as metallic Lithium should never be present in a normally operating Li-Ion). After being exposed to the air for 20 sec or so, the separator spontaneously caught fire where the metallic Lithium was, just a warning for that. These were from Apple Macbooks A1185 batteries. Some of those were known to have faulty protection circuits. BTW, If anyone else decides to see the insides of a cell, make sure the cell is fully discharged before doing so (<2.5 volts) and do it outside oo:. Do not short the cells to discharge as the thermal protector may trip and the cell will still be charged.
> 
> As a side note to the above posters, I too have to agree that the Panasonic cells are really good as I have had an orange set that I had taken out of a pack back in 2005 which sat in storage until a few weeks back when I decided to test them again. They were stored at 3.82 volts when I put them in storage at room temperature, after storage they read 3.78 and had >95% of nameplate capacity after testing them. Pretty darn amazing, IMO.


 
Beautiful post and wonderful advice! Again, panasonic cells definitely sound tops 



ico said:


> I opened the battery of a Dell Inspiron some time ago and it has a different kind of battery source. Its not 18650's since they were rectangular and about 4-6mm thick. What kind of batteries are those?


 


cdrake261 said:


> do they look like these?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody suggested poly ion batteries


Those are Lithium-Polymer cells 


Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk


----------



## ico

Nope. What I saw were color white rectangles 6 inches long by < 1 inches wide. They were packed like wafers side by side. the battery pack is about 6 inches long and 2 inches wide only. I think there were about 4-5 wafer like batteries inside since they were placed side by side. I'll try to post a pic after my exams.


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

Those cells above aren't typically what LiPo cells look like. Often, they will be in a rectangular grey/silver vacuum sealed "bag". Those it looks like they just put some extra tape on them to keep possible expansion to a minimum. (? dunno why they would do that... I'd rather my cells poof up than burst)

CDrake, those look like sanyo cells, btw.


----------



## sxl168

They are probably prismatic lithium ion cells similar to these: http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/includes/pdf/Panasonic_LiIon_CGA103450A.pdf
Sanyo, Sony, and others make/made those type but the foil pouch type cells have pretty much taken over. I have several of these types recovered from old cell phones.


----------



## Cypher_Aod

ico said:


> Nope. What I saw were color white rectangles 6 inches long by < 1 inches wide. They were packed like wafers side by side. the battery pack is about 6 inches long and 2 inches wide only. I think there were about 4-5 wafer like batteries inside since they were placed side by side. I'll try to post a pic after my exams.



those sound like very typical Li-Poly cells


----------



## Steven13

I'm scared! I just opened one without reading this and started trying to cut with scissors apart the batteries and sparks were flying from the middle. they started warming up and I just put them back and don't want to mess with them anymore. Should I put them somewhere or are they fine. I am scared they will light on fire after reading this.


----------



## xamindar

Steven13 said:


> I'm scared! I just opened one without reading this and started trying to cut with scissors apart the batteries and sparks were flying from the middle. they started warming up and I just put them back and don't want to mess with them anymore. Should I put them somewhere or are they fine. I am scared they will light on fire after reading this.


Yes they can explode! If they didn't then I am guessing the short you caused was broken when you closed them back up. Lucky you. You should dispose of them.


----------



## Steven13

Yeah, I noticed they weren't warm but I was still paranoid so I through them in my dump outside! thanks for a quick response though.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

nice hack here


----------



## DisrupTer911

Are these batteries individually protected cells?


----------



## 127.0.0.1

DisrupTer911 said:


> Are these batteries individually protected cells?



no. the circuit boards that are cut off are the protection. now they need to be human supervised


----------



## DisrupTer911

127.0.0.1 said:


> no. the circuit boards that are cut off are the protection. now they need to be human supervised



So precautionaryly I'll need to monitor voltage and temp during charging and use correct?

I'm going to double check voltages before I bother charging tonight to make sure I don't have any duds.


----------



## Helmut.G

Did anybody ever come across 16650 batteries in a battery pack?
I'm looking for these: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...iew-of-Intl-outdoor-Sanyo-16650-2100mAh-(Red)

I want some but don't know what battery packs contain them. I suspect they might be used for tiny 3 cell netbook batteries.

The specs are minimum 2100mAh, typical 2200mAh. Which number would you expect a pack of them to be rated?


----------



## QuePsi83

*Thank You Members - 18650 Laptop Battery hack - WARNING - picture heavy*

In my earlier 'un-enlightened' days (_I'm still a Grass-hoppa_) I remember reading a topic titled "I hate you" or something along those lines on this forum. It was written by a member who became a 'flashaholic' by stumbling on this forum. Today, my topic is less stunning. It's more of an overwhelming "Thank you". I don't think the OP of 'that' Post really hated anyone either.

Membership here arose from my desire to do something different with a Surefire 6P I purchased way back in 2000. In addition to joining this group and surfing, I borrowed a 'project' for boring the original 6P tube so it would accept an 18650 Li-ion battery. With that feat completed, I next bought my first 6P drop-in module - a Q5. Now completely addicted, I replaced the original 6P head with a Solaforce tactical crenulated head. _Does this pattern sound familiar?_ The 6P has been upgraded to an 1000 lumen CREE T6 LED.

As I'm writing this topic, I've since increased my collection of 18650-based LED torches to include...



 (2) 501B's - one for my wife's car 
(1) 502B 
(1) C8 
(1) UF-1100 
(1) HS-802 
(1) M6 (SSC P7 900Lm) 
 and, a few minutes ago, a 3800 Lumen Trustfire 3x CREE XM-L T6 LEDs 

The man cave work bench now sports an Innova 3320 DMM and a DSD Intelligent Charger.

About the Li-ion cells required to drive these torches, I quickly learned that Power listed above 2900mAh is probably a pipe dream. Shamefully (Yep! Hanging my head!) I've been duped into a set of four (4) 3000mAh cells... lessons learned. This brings me to the subject of this topic, reason for this Post and a few photos I made along the way. As is customary, YMMV, wear gloves when working with sharp objects, wear adequate protection for your eyes and please research the behavior of and conditions under which 18650's should be handled. Common sense is required.

This is my second laptop battery purchase (_and hack_). To-date I've hacked an IBM Thinkpad (_6 cell Panasonic_), a Dell (_6 cell Samsung_) and yesterday a Dell Inspiron (_9 cell pack_). The 6 cell DELL pack was a *freebie*. The Thinkpad had two (2) dead cells. The 9 cell Dell pack - a new replacement pack - had all *GOOD* cells. All of these cells are 'FLAT TOPS' and, unless I am wrong, these are 'UNPROTECTED' cells.

Let me stress... you do not want to push into or puncture these (or any) packs with sharp metal objects. *Do not* carelessly try to cut into any pack with a Dremel tool or any tool for that matter. These packs are assembled with extremely TIGHT tolerances and limited wiggle room. *You're forewarned!!!*

I used the sharp corner of a small scraper to pry open the pack (at a corner) being careful to not push the scraper INTO the pack. Once I worked this corner open, I used a small plastic putty spreader to work the seam UNTIL the adhesive bond broke. Then, I separated the two halves by hand being careful to NOT traumatize the cell arrangement until I could lift the cells out of the shell.

My drive out cost on this Dell Inspiron pack from FleeBay was $24.58 FREE S/H or $2.73 each. The cells were wired in 3P3S arrangement and the pack listed 11.1v - 6600mAh yielding nine (9) 2200mAh cells @ 3.7v un-protected. On three of my torches, I've rigged a piece of Aluminum foil so that the (+) of the battery can contact the (+) of the module. IIRC, the HS-802, the M6 and the UF-1100 requires this (rough) mod. They all work flawlessly. Enjoy...


[The Dell Inspiron pack ready for surgery]







[I just picked this area to begin surgery]





[The corner is breached and peeled back showing some yellow adhesive tape]





[The complete top of the pack has been peeled back - by hand to reveal the nine cells]




[Removed from the hard case and still connected to each other]





[Broken apart in 3 groups of 3 cells]




[All nine cells cleaned up a bit. Notice the rightmost 6 digits are sequential]





[IMPROV - Using rubber band to hold the (+) & (-) probes of the 3320 for a a voltage check -- all read 3.66v]





[Slight buffing of the + & - with a Dremmel, numbering and storage - before charging]





[Five (5) of the 'U------Fires' on egg crate foam in their storage case. The other three (3) are ready for work]





[In the foreground, the 2000-purchased Surefire 6P that started the addiction]





FWIW, I have all of the batteries cataloged showing their...



original voltage after leaving the OR 
charged voltage... They all yield 4.15v on the DMM based on an extended GREEN light off a DSD Intelligent charger 
tested voltage after 30 days of rest.. Only one of the earlier Dells dropped by -.01 

I probably won't be buying anymore Laptop battery packs for a while unless the addiction spreads to the 'other' Boss of me. But, I did notice her eyes twinkle when I mentioned the arrival of a 3800 Lumen brat.

Take care and *THANKS* for providing such cool (_and FREE_) knowledge on this forum.


Keith


Sorry Norm. If only I had a 'light', I'd see that RULE. Problem solved. Thanks


----------



## BVH

*Re: Thank You Members - 18650 Laptop Battery hack - WARNING - picture heavy*

You're gonna want to resize your pics to 800 x 800 max before the mods ask you do to do.


----------



## climberkid

Thanks QuePsi! Great process you've shown here. Thanks for sharing. 


-Alex


----------



## reppans

QuePsi83 said:


> ... All of these cells are 'FLAT TOPS' and, unless I am wrong, these are 'UNPROTECTED' cells.



Thanks for sharing....

Question on the flat tops... I notice that many lights have reverse polarity protection on the head (positive end) that allows the + button tops to touch the very center, but then there're battery contact points surround the + center that I presume can determine if the battery's negative end is incorrect facing toward the head.  

I assume the flat tops will touch both contacts... does that cause a problem, or do you do something to put a button on the flat top?

Thanks.


----------



## KingMonkey

*Re: Thank You Members - 18650 Laptop Battery hack - WARNING - picture heavy*

Thanks for posting this in high resolution pictures it really helps to see the details. It is always nice to see more of these laptop packs broken apart.


----------



## 45/70

*Re: Thank You Members - 18650 Laptop Battery hack - WARNING - picture heavy*



QuePsi83 said:


> ......On three of my torches, I've rigged a piece of Aluminum foil so that the (+) of the battery can contact the (+) of the module......



Hi Que. I'd be really careful with the Aluminum foil. Some folks use magnets for this purpose. Really I find either pretty scary, particularly when running unprotected cells. Most battery tubes are anodized, but it's very thin. If the foil somehow gets out of place and contacts the battery tube, or some other component that is the opposite polarity, you could potentially have a pipe bomb instead of a flashlight!

Dave


----------



## czAtlantis

*Re: Thank You Members - 18650 Laptop Battery hack - WARNING - picture heavy*

Yes, my thoughts exactly - aluminium foil can be dangerous. 
Much better is to solder small "blob" on positive pole.


----------



## reppans

Aluminum foil is fine for negative end right? (I use it as spacers for running AAAs in a AA light, well along with $ bills to center the batt)


----------



## QuePsi83

*Re: Thank You Members - 18650 Laptop Battery hack - WARNING - picture heavy*

Thanks for the responses. I'm aware of the 'potential' risks of a slippage - of the aluminum foil - and possible shorting out of the circuit. To that end - and NO this is NOT a permanent fix - I've cut 1 1/2" squares of aluminum foil and multi-folded it over and over to create what looks like a 1/8" high Aspirin-sized 'pill'. I've rounded the edges of the 'pill' and have created enough of a 'mound' to the 'pill' such that by positioning the Aluminum 'pill' atop the + of the cell and slipping the flash tube down and over the battery, once this arrangement is inverted and the tail cap is screwed on tightly, the + of the flat top cell compresses the Aluminum 'pill' against the + of the module giving a solid bond. I will not argue the risks! But, I've done some dramatic banging of the tail and head against my hand with the tail switch ON and OFF. So far, no ballistics. Also, carefully unscrewing the tail cap and dismantling, the flat top shows enough of an indentation - where the 'pill' was compressed... offering relieving my immediate concerns for a failure.

I just found a YouTube video that shows how the 'strips' are spot-welded to the + & - of the 18650's. Interesting! Although I don't have such a spot-welder, I will sacrifice one or two 18650's tonight as I clean and drop several drips of solder on to the + of a flat top.

I really appreciate your concerns gentlemen. As such, I will report back on the results of the 'drip' Mod.


Take care,

Keith


----------



## QuePsi83

*Re: Thank You Members - 18650 Laptop Battery hack - WARNING - picture heavy*

All can rest easy. The solder 'DRIP' mod to the three (3)18650s was a success. Completing the mod was more 'stress' than work. It took less than 5 minutes.

Take care,


Keith


----------



## climberkid

QuePsi83 said:


> All can rest easy. The solder 'DRIP' mod to the three (3)18650s was a success. Completing the mod was more 'stress' than work. It took less than 5 minutes.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> 
> Keith



Great to hear! Looks like I need to recycle some laptop batteries!


-Alex


----------



## QuePsi83

*Re: Thank You Members - 18650 Laptop Battery hack - WARNING - picture heavy*

Have at it. I found my packs on the FleaBay. New replacements are a good investment. "Battery pack PULLS" are somewhat of a gamble. I've been fortunate on my first "PULL"... 5 out of 6 good cells.

Be safe,

Keith


----------



## stephan van straaten

*Re: Thank You Members - 18650 Laptop Battery hack - WARNING - picture heavy*

I just did my first "pull". 
The funny thing is i dont have a light that runs 18650, yet.


----------



## sxl168

*Re: Thank You Members - 18650 Laptop Battery hack - WARNING - picture heavy*

I take laptop packs apart from Ebay all the time for cells and have a pretty good rate of recovering good cells as well. Some types of casings can be quite hard to open up though and it is trial and error as to finding which models can be opened up easily. Some I have not opened up successfully at all because they are so tightly bonded together.

One thing I see in your picture is what looks like Al foil laying under your cells. Good idea from fire protection standpoint, but I would think that it would be very easy to create an accidental short and blow the internal poly fuse. One thing I use for cell disassembly are those 12" by 12" or 18" by 18" ceramic floor tiles that Home Depot and Lowe's sells. No risk of shorting out cells and fire proof as well.

I also do a complete charge-discharge cycle on every working cell to find it's capacity and compare it to manufacture's specs. I generally grade to 3 grades: 1. Like new (>95% nameplate capacity) 2. Usable (80-95% of nameplate capacity) 3. Recycle (<80% of nameplate capacity). My experience is that about 40% of cells fall into the 3rd grade when buying used packs off of Ebay. Not saying that you won't find good cells though, as I do have a few hundred like new cells from taking packs apart, just that not every pack you open will produce good useful cells. I generally only go after Ebay auctions that are selling 10+ packs per lot at $3 per pack and no more. You can find them if you are patient and sometimes very large numbers of packs at times (I got ahold of 60 Macbook packs one time that I turned into a large reserve battery for camping/hiking). I have plenty of cells at the moment and haven't bought any more the past year, so not sure if pricing has changed much since then. Including all the bad cells from the packs, I'd say that I dollar cost averaged at about $1.00 per good cell that I have.


----------



## subwoofer

*Re: Thank You Members - 18650 Laptop Battery hack - WARNING - picture heavy*

My only source of laptop batteries for recycling has been at work, and they are always highly abused giving very disappointing results. Out of the last three packs I've got about 5 usable cells.

As far as pack disassembly one point I would make is that using tools can be risky. In fact these last few I opened entirely by hand and only once I had the cells completely out did I use tools to separate the individual cells.

To be honest though, as satisfying as it is to recover the cells I don't really trust them that much and think it is worth buying new ones so you know exactly where you stand.


----------



## ltcdata

*Recovering batteries from notebook battery pack*

Hi!
I have a 1 year old dell batttery pack. It has 6 18650 cells.
I will check their voltage with a multimeter later.
If they are still at 3.6v, it is safe to charge them? (i have a nitecore i4 v2 charger)
If they are lower (under 3.6v)... is there anything i can do?
I know that if they are near 1.5-2v, it's their EOL.
Thanks!


----------



## ltcdata

*Re: Recovering batteries from notebook battery pack*

I recovered the cells!!
They were all at 3.6v at time of extraction.
The old zinc bathtube is where i am ready to throw the cells in case of fire/heat/shortcircuit/etc, and then pour sand over them.
I'm charging them now. By the configuration they seem to be 2200mAh cells.
Could they be sanyo ones? They have written: A ND9A37 085761

High res Album for the interested:
http://imgur.com/a/8c1w3#0


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

*Re: Recovering batteries from notebook battery pack*

Hi ltcdata, 

You have extracted sanyo ur18650a, it appears. There is some debate as to whether these are 2250mAh (4.2V) cells or 2800mAh (4.35V) cells, though apparently the 2800mAh ones should have an orange wrapper?

quoted from various internet sources. Older sanyos were that reddish pink color that the cells you extracted are. 


> Older cells:
> 
> 
> Sanyo UR18650F 2200mAh red ring
> 
> 
> Sanyo UR18650A 2250mAh violet ring
> 
> 
> Sanyo UR18650F 2400mAh green ring
> 
> 
> Sanyo UR18650F 2600mAh teal blue ring
> 
> 
> New 4.35V cells:
> 
> 
> Sanyo UR18650ZT 2800mAh violet (orange cell cover) 4.35V
> 
> 
> Sanyo UR18650ZTA 3000mAh yellow (violet cell cover) 4.35V





> http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz245/electronman5/Sanyo.png


^from that:
Note:
1. Stamp lot number on the tube
xyyz
x - year (`96=A, `97=B, ..., `10=O, `11=P, ...)
yy - week (01, 02, ..., 48, 49, ... 53)
z - Changed Career (A, B, C, ....., Z)
2. Stamp 'SANYO' & 'R1112' of cell model on the tube

Doesn't seem to be 100%, don't know how to use that to decode your lot no.s. 



Some more tips to help you identify: convert the battery pack's Wh rating to Amp Hours by dividing the Wh rating by the nominal voltage listed on the pack. Now, you have the entire pack's Ah rating @ the pack's nominal voltage.

Laptop battery packs are generally two parallel strings to double the capacity, so you can divide the pack's Ah rating to get a string's Ah rating @ that series string's nominal voltage (which would be the same as the pack's nominal voltage)

Three cells in series is generally the perfect voltage for laptops, this is where they get the nominal voltage. So, you can divide the nominal voltage of the pack by 3 to get an individual cell's nominal voltage. 

You now should have the info you need: a single cell's nominal voltage, and it's Ah rating.


----------



## gaca78

I went on to disassemble two 6 cell and one 9 cell battery pack. 
The result is five bad batteries (measuring less than 1.2V) and sixteen good batteries (two measuring 2.99V, the rest 3.3-3.6V). 
Pink ones are made by Samsung and green ones are Panasonic.


SAMSUNG ICR18650-26D


SAMSUNG ICR18650-26C


Panasonic CGR18650A


http://s20.postimage.org/46wlt0wsd/IMAG0412.jpg


When I removed contacts some have bottoms very slightly deformed during the process of removing contacts. I hope these can be seen from this picture. Will this cause any trouble in operation?


http://s20.postimage.org/cdolklmv1/IMAG0416.jpg


----------



## EeeK

I've just ripped out a IBM T43 battery that was unchangeable when inserted in the notebook. The batteries model is CGR18650D and look like the following:







I measured the voltage using a multi-meter and got the following results:



2 measured ~0.65V
2 measuured ~0.1V
2 measured -0V

I do not have a 18650 charger. I've already bought a 18650 USB charger box as below and plan to use these batteries.

Any advise can I still use them?


----------



## donn_

Probably not.

The first two may be able to be restored, but it isn't likely they will have much life left in them. The other 4 are likely goners.


----------



## alexandrul

EeeK said:


> I measured the voltage using a multi-meter and got the following results:
> 
> 
> 
> 2 measured ~0.65V
> 2 measuured ~0.1V
> 2 measured -0V
> 
> Any advise can I still use them?



Discard them.

IMHO, this post is a must read on this subject: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...0-Extraction&p=3767033&viewfull=1#post3767033


----------



## xevious

I was issued an IBM Thinkpad at a place of work 9 years ago, and didn't realize I still had a laptop battery for it. It was one that wasn't delivering enough juice and I'd gotten a replacement. Somehow I never threw out the old one. Today I extracted the batteries, which turned out to be Panasonic CGR18650A cells. Four tested below 1.0v, and two tested at 1.43v. I'm tempted to give the 1.43v cells a try, to see if there's any chance of revival.... although I expect they're really too old to have much of a capacity any longer.

*EDIT*: OK, I read up some more... and 18650 cells that are 10 years old should be avoided. I'm lucky I didn't go the distance and try fully charging these cells (I just did a partial charge test). They were able to rise back above 3v, but they got quite warm... which has been cited as a potentially dangerous problem. Not worth the risk.


----------



## xevious

I have a more recent laptop battery that wouldn't charge any longer. I pulled the batteries from it (MAJOR pain--no weak seams anywhere), which showed to be lavender shrouded Samsung ICR18650 cells. 3.85v, 3.85v, 4.0v, 0.25v, 0.23v, 0.19v. So half of them are usable. Not bad. Certainly don't need to buy any unprotected 18650's for a bit.


----------



## Crendon

Wow thanks for this info. I have a XP knackered Asus Eee tablet and manages to salvage 4 x 18650 batteries from it. They are yellow in colour so I am not sure of the maker, but they have charged up great and will be of great use in my LED torch in the future. Thanks again.


----------



## Gr8Scott

Need some direction, and I am probably excessively cautious, but I have grown fond of my eyes, limbs and body as I approach my half a century mark 

What I have is a small pile of laptop battery packs. And a virtual endless source. Yee-haw.

So far, only by the grace of God, I have managed to dissemble two packs, one from a Dell and one from a Toshiba. Without significant incident, so far.(One spark while I was cutting the tabs off)

Being excited as a little kid, I didn't log what cells came from what (which I won't do again) but I think the Dell, my first harvest, was the one with the dark green cells.(Sony?)
No problems opening up the pack,easy and the tabs were long enough for me to cut them without a spark.
Yipee, 6 of 'em, all measuring 3.69v each.

So, next,I think was the Toshiba, same easy clearance, but as I was snipping the tabs I got ZZZZZZAP which woke my arse up real bright like.
The good thing was that out of 8 red (I think Sanyo 2400mAh) cells I got 6 measuring 3.78v. 2 were so low I taped both ends of each and set them in the discard area.

So, today, several days later, I proceeded to pop open another Dell.Different external pack, gray.
And, to my delight, I spy 6 BEAUTIFUL teal CGR18650D cells! Panasonics!!! 
Jackpot baby!

But I stopped. These things are in tight, very tight, with a pronounced hardwired protection circuit. 
In this config ++spacer--spacer++PCB


{EDIT}

Not as promising, 3.1 was highest voltage pair, probably set these aside until later, and read some more

{end-EDIT}

Now in all these tutorials I have yet to see demonstrated which tab to cut first. So not wanting to blow up anything, (or me) I am just wondering if there is a sequence to these things cut wise.

Do you just go through and cut every positive pair? Or does it matter?
PCB cut first? Or does it matter?

Sequence is of what I inquire, just trying to be extra safe about this. 
Thanks


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Gr8Scott,

Welcome to CPF.

The main point is to be careful while cutting. The actual sequence is not important. 

I tend to cut the packs into pairs of cells, then separate the pairs as needed.

Tom


----------



## Dirtbasher

SilverFox said:


> Hello Gr8Scott,
> 
> Welcome to CPF.
> 
> The main point is to be careful while cutting. The actual sequence is not important.
> 
> I tend to cut the packs into pairs of cells, then separate the pairs as needed.
> 
> Tom



I do the same, I use side cutters that snip through like butter.


----------



## Dirtbasher

I'm in the I.T game and I look out for laptop batteries that still work, so I know the history of the pack , oddly enough on most 6 cell packs it always 2 cells that are below Voltage , some of these I'm busy recovering to test their discharge rate, and to find out why it's always 2 cells (have this theory that they are designed to fail).


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

DB: what's neat about laptop batteries, sometimes you can even pull data like how many cycles the cells have been through and when the pack was made from the laptop's battery "driver"


----------



## RetroTechie

flatline said:


> 1. measure cell voltage. if it's less than 2.5v, throw it away.


I'd question anything that depends on a _momentary_ measurement to decide "good" or "bad". I can understand that a lithium cell (especially the common lithium-cobalt based chemistry) which has been discharged <2.5V and sitting there for a while, might be damaged beyond recovery. But that should not be decided by a simple voltage measurement.

IMHO it would be better to (try and) put a cell through _at least_ 1 or more full charge/discharge cycles, and monitor how it behaves over time. If that behaviour shows far-out-of-normal parameters: discard. If that behavior shows far-below-nominal remaining capacity: discard. But if @ the start of the process it reads a much lower voltage than desired/expected: be patient, and see how it does further on.


----------



## SilverFox

Hello RetroTechie,

While your humble opinion is noted, let's take a look at this from a bigger perspective...

Laptop battery recovery is basically a free source of cells. 

The most danger when using Li-Ion chemistry comes during charging.

Cells that have been over discharged have a higher probability of having "issues."

Most battery packs that are being salvaged have been sitting for a period of time allowing voltages to stabilize.

A voltage reading is a very good spot check of an over discharged condition.

If you have 6 cells and 4 of them read over 3 volts and the other 2 read under 2 volts, why not recycle the 2 low voltage ones and concentrate on the others? 

Yes it may be possible to recover the other 2 cells, but is it worth the effort and piece of mind?

Tom


----------



## flatline

RetroTechie said:


> I'd question anything that depends on a _momentary_ measurement to decide "good" or "bad". I can understand that a lithium cell (especially the common lithium-cobalt based chemistry) which has been discharged <2.5V and sitting there for a while, might be damaged beyond recovery. But that should not be decided by a simple voltage measurement.
> 
> IMHO it would be better to (try and) put a cell through _at least_ 1 or more full charge/discharge cycles, and monitor how it behaves over time. If that behaviour shows far-out-of-normal parameters: discard. If that behavior shows far-below-nominal remaining capacity: discard. But if @ the start of the process it reads a much lower voltage than desired/expected: be patient, and see how it does further on.



I'm quite certain that I've thrown away cells that I could have probably used safely, but since I have no idea if a cell will cause trouble until after the fact, my guidelines for what cells to keep err very much on the side of caution. After all, I could save myself the trouble and simply spend $8 on-line for a new cell, so if a salvaged cell causes me any trouble at all, I would have been better off not salvaging it.

In the worst case, a salvaged cell that "vents with flame" in the charger could set fire to your house and endanger all within it. This is why I think that marginal cells are a poor gamble. Even with my cautious rules, I still usually keep about half of the cells that I pull out of laptops, although they're all gone now. Once the little man became interested in my flashlights, I locked up my 18650 lights and recycled all my salvaged cells. I can't watch him 100% of the time and it's just not worth the risk.

--flatline


----------



## Petir

How do I "calculate" the capacity of the cells? I have one battery pack for Fujitsu, it's written 10.8V, 4800 mAh, 6 cells.
Does each cells has 800 mAh?


----------



## kosPap

Well liIons are 4.2volt and 3.6V Nominal
3.6x3cells=10.8
4800/2cells=2400 mAh
so your battey has 3 cells wired in series (one behind the other)
and 2 sticks of these, wired parallel (side-by-side)


----------



## funkychateau

kramer5150 said:


> -If you wanted to meet up, just PM me. I can dremel off the weld spots from the ends for you. Those little spots on the ends of the cell will chew up your light. Your light collection is $$$$$, and its worth the added effort. Heres what mine look like after dremeling...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good job!!:twothumbs



I used to do that when I first started recycling cells, but now I just leave a small square of the ribbon strap attached and burnish it smooth. Works great, much faster, and doesn't generate metal dust to get in the vent and other crevasses.


----------



## RetroTechie

Last week, harvested 8 cells from a ~12 year old (!) P3 laptop battery. A few tips:


Like stated earlier in this thread: separate cells starting with the bottom tabs first. Why? Cell wrapping is thin. When you puncture it, on the top there will be a short between case (negative) and positive pole. Read: rapid heating of the cell until you notice and remove the short. On the bottom, such a puncture won't do anything except damage the wrapping. Once cells are separated at the bottom side, it's easier/safer to cut tabs on the + side. 
Use a non-conducting thingie like a toothpick to pull tabs a little up from the cell wrapping (into a "^" shape). That way cutting tabs is easier/safer and less likely to damage the wrapping. 
When you cut wiring in the battery pack, take care what happens to those wire ends! For example tape them off until you separated all individual cells. 

Didn't bother to take things outside, simply took my time and proceeded carefully to avoid "vent with flame" mishaps. Cell voltages were okay (~3.08V after sitting >6 months in the pack unused) and very consistent between cells. But obviously 12 year is a long time, and a laptop a harsh environment. So as expected their remaining capacity was very low (800~900 mAh) and I've found the cells unable to pull >2A loads. Probably will keep a few as spares / for testing purposes, but won't be of much use really. On the lookout for a more recent pack to pull 18650's from... 

Btw - if you use pliers to remove the tabs: I use pliers with a thin tip, and do this in a rolling motion (you wrap the tab around the pliers' tip). That way it's less likely to cause dents, micro-punctures or similar.


----------



## Brewguy

Hello everyone!

I stumbled across this thread the other day and it caught my interest. Here's why.

I use electronic cigarettes. Most of our "advanced" devices use anything from 18350 to 18650 batteries in them. Needless to say, the light bulb went on. I hopped on eBay and found a replacement battery for my laptop. Knowing that I rarely if ever use the battery on my laptop, I wasn't going to use my current battery for the experiment (never unplugged for any length of time), but would use the new one.

Got it today, opened it up and saw the 6 18650 batteries that I anticipated finding. Tested all of them with my multi-meter and they were all 3.92v. Not bad, 6 for 6.

But, the question that I have is, since these aren't labeled as anything more than 18650, I'm wondering on mah and brand to do more investigating as to whether or not these are going to be worthwhile to use.

Here is a picture of the battery:






Pulled from a battery pack for a Dell XPS M11530 laptop.

Can anyone point me in the right direction to figure out the mystery that are these batteries?

Thanks!


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Charge them up and see how they perform. Most Li-Ions are shipped with that voltage. Better for storage.

Bill


----------



## Brewguy

Bullzeyebill said:


> Charge them up and see how they perform. Most Li-Ions are shipped with that voltage. Better for storage.
> 
> Bill



What I'm "worried" about the most is amp limit and mah. While some of our devices have protection, most don't. They're just straight, what we call, mechanical mods. Button makes the connection and the devices starts "firing" the coil. I'm just wondering where I'm going to sit in regards to max amps permitted by these batteries. Which, is why I'm hoping someone can help identify them. Any search for "blue 18650 batteries" bring me a litany of Trustfire, Ultrafire, etc. For our purposes, we generally stay away from anything with the word "fire" in the name. 

4 of them are on the Nitecore i4 intelicharger, and seem to be charging as they should. No noticable heat coming from them and the LEDs are flashing like normal. Have to see how it goes!


----------



## Brewguy

Alright. The charge went well. All batteries reached a full charge (4.27v). 

Here's a little more information off of the battery pack, if it's helpful.

The laptop is a Dell XPS M1530.

"Rechargeable Li-ion Battery
TYPE TK330 1530
Rating: 11.1V DC (symbol) 5200mAh"

So, we've got 1733mAh batteries (as there were 3 parallel pairs). Does this help anyone?


----------



## Mr Floppy

Brewguy said:


> So, we've got 1733mAh batteries (as there were 3 parallel pairs). Does this help anyone?



I think you have that wrong. It should be 3S2P for that battery pack of 6 cells. The cells should be 3.7V 2600mAh cells.

As for the electronic cigarettes, most of them are just a resistance coil. Use your multimeter and measure it, then you can apply Ohms law. For instance, 2.2 Ohms, I = V/R, I = 4.2/2.2, = 1.9A. So your fully charged cell has a max drain of about 0.8C. With old cells, I tend to avoid going over 1C.


----------



## Brewguy

Mr Floppy said:


> I think you have that wrong. It should be 3S2P for that battery pack of 6 cells. The cells should be 3.7V 2600mAh cells.
> 
> As for the electronic cigarettes, most of them are just a resistance coil. Use your multimeter and measure it, then you can apply Ohms law. For instance, 2.2 Ohms, I = V/R, I = 4.2/2.2, = 1.9A. So your fully charged cell has a max drain of about 0.8C. With old cells, I tend to avoid going over 1C.



Could you help me out with the 3S2P? Am I interpreting correctly that you're saying 3 in series and 2 in parallel? Wouldn't that be 7 cells?

The reason I was thinking 3 parallel cells was due to the fact that all were connected the same and there were 3 wires running to the PCB (plus the ground). Not that I would complain about 2600mah cells rather than 1733, just trying to learn how you came to that conclusion.

In regards to the e-cigs, yep, everything I build goes on an ohm meter. If there's a question, I pull out the multi-meter to check. I'm a huge fan of keeping my hands and face in the same condition day to day. Hence why I'm trying to find out as much as I can about these batteries.  As it sits right now, I've been testing them using a protected device rather than a full mechanical so that if there is a short, I've at least got some (perceived) protection.

Thanks!


----------



## Mr Floppy

Brewguy said:


> Could you help me out with the 3S2P? Am I interpreting correctly that you're saying 3 in series and 2 in parallel? Wouldn't that be 7 cells?
> 
> The reason I was thinking 3 parallel cells was due to the fact that all were connected the same and there were 3 wires running to the PCB (plus the ground). Not that I would complain about 2600mah cells rather than 1733, just trying to learn how you came to that conclusion.



3S2P means two parallel banks of 3 cells in series. http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5479/3s2pultrafire18650prote.jpg

Maths, You have 6 cells, the individual cells will have to be either 3.6V or 3.7V. To get to 11.1V, 3 * 3.7 will get you that. The capacity of the pack is rated 5200mAh, the 3 remaining cells need to be in series as well in so the two banks will be in parallel. 5200 / 2 will give you 2600mAh . 

The other factor is that no-one makes 18650 cells that are 1733mAh that I know of.


----------



## Petir

Mr Floppy said:


> 3S2P means two parallel banks of 3 cells in series. http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5479/3s2pultrafire18650prote.jpg
> 
> Maths, You have 6 cells, the individual cells will have to be either 3.6V or 3.7V. To get to 11.1V, 3 * 3.7 will get you that. The capacity of the pack is rated 5200mAh, the 3 remaining cells need to be in series as well in so the two banks will be in parallel. 5200 / 2 will give you 2600mAh .
> 
> The other factor is that no-one makes 18650 cells that are 1733mAh that I know of.



Since there are 4 wires running to the PCB, perhaps it should be called 2P3S?
2 cells connected in parallel, then connect 3 of it in series.

I have a very limited knowledge on this, but I think the capacity calculation stays the same.


----------



## Mr Floppy

Petir said:


> Since there are 4 wires running to the PCB, perhaps it should be called 2P3S?
> 2 cells connected in parallel, then connect 3 of it in series.
> 
> I have a very limited knowledge on this, but I think the capacity calculation stays the same.



Yes, it could be in that configuration and yes the voltage and amp hours are the same. Best follow the tabs and how they are connected but if you are cutting out the cells in pairs, then yes it probably is 2P3S, not that I know if there is a standardized way of representing parallel/series


----------



## Brewguy

Thank you all very much for the information. I've been using them in my general rotation of batteries and they've been performing very well. Their discharge is on par with my Panasonic NCR18650PD batteries that I've had for a couple of months. 

Just a quick question, but does anyone happen to know which laptop battery packs are most likely to produce Sony cells? Not that I've found anything wrong with my mystery blue 18650 cells, but would kind of like to put a manufacturer with a battery so that I can find out what limitations I have with a particular cell.

Thanks!


----------



## Mr Floppy

Brewguy said:


> Just a quick question, but does anyone happen to know which laptop battery packs are most likely to produce Sony cells?



Sony ones .. 

For me, with the mystery cells I make sure that I don't draw more than 1C. I'm sure I've seen that logo on your cell somewhere but I don't remember where.


----------



## Brewguy

Mr Floppy said:


> Sony ones ..
> 
> For me, with the mystery cells I make sure that I don't draw more than 1C. I'm sure I've seen that logo on your cell somewhere but I don't remember where.



Okay, you could have thrown a "duh" in there. I wouldn't have minded. Lol

I appreciate your restraint. Thanks again.


----------



## FenixFan1996

Great tutorial... I did this the other day. Only did two regular laptop packs so got 12 batteries (6x 1800mah and 6x 2400mah respectively). The higher end ones I installed a protection circuit (From dealextreme), rewrapped in black shrink wrap, and filed off the weld spots on the end, the 1800mah I redid the shrinkwrap and actually did them up into a battery pack. And of course I did balance and do a few cycles on them.


----------



## markr6

I just pulled 6 UR18650Y (2000mAh) cells from my old Sony Viao laptop. Didn't really need them, but I don't use the computer anymore and the pack didn't hold a charge very long anyway.

I'll see how they perform on their own. Each measured 3.66v. I believe I charged the laptop over a week ago and ran it down to about 40% before I pulled them. The wrapping on them sucks, you can push it right off the negative end with some effort.

Update: I charged two of these to 4.17v last night. Today they are reading 4.13v. I'll check them tomorrow and see how they look. Either way I'm not sure I'll even use these. For $15 I'd rather just get two new 3400mAh cells for something I'll be using frequently.


----------



## dewie

Just done my first laptop scavenge. out of Dell battery.Got 6 panasonic CGR18650D LI-Ion MH 12210 batterys. 4 tested 3.71 2 tested 2.62 volts with dmm. Are the batterys any good. should i throw out the two 2.62 volts ? Will try to run in a Flashlight. THANKS


----------



## hoop762

Personally I have no idea. You may want to check out https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/246699


----------



## ampdude

I would keep the two at 2.62 separated and try and charge them to see if they will hold a charge. Definitely try them out, but don't use them in series with the other cells.


----------



## Norm

hoop762 said:


> Personally I have no idea. You may want to check out https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/246699


Thread Merge - Norm


----------



## Mr Floppy

So here's an interesting case. I got a extended battery pack from a Toshiba Satellite. The voltage on the pack says 10.8V and 9600mAh. When I opened it up, the cells have printed on them 3.7V. The other markings were ICR18650A240, which as far as I can tell are 3.7V 2400mAh from a Chinese manufacturer possibly called Yik Lik (so says Google that is). The 12 cells are wired 3S4P so 9600mAh is right but should be 11.1. Guess it wasn't a genuine Toshiba extended battery pack. The cells seem quite rubbish too, at 1C max discharge.


----------



## canis

Hi, I´ve just come across this thread and was excited to find out that my old lenovo battery would still be useful. I was able to extract all 9 batteries and they seem to be sanyos, same as the OP. I do have a few questions though. I tested all 9 batts with a multimeter and while 6 were 3.5v +, the other three were around 2.5-2.6. Would it be safe to charge them in a nitecore intellicharger I4 charger? I understand these batteries are unprotected so, should I manually check the charge or will the I4 cut automatically once it´s done?

Here´s a pic. There´s no brand or markings on them other than "MKDM4CA" (underneath the thin cover, barely noticeable through it) and what appears to be a serial number.
I apologize for the newb questions but even though saving some money could be really helpful atm, I wouldn´t want risk a fire.
Thanks!


----------



## Mr Floppy

canis said:


> Here´s a pic. There´s no brand or markings on them other than "MKDM4CA" (underneath the thin cover, barely noticeable through it) and what appears to be a serial number.



The cells in the first post mentioned L18A, and they are suspected to be Sanyo cells. The L18A is embossed into the heat shrink and it is a date code. The first letter is the year where A=1996, B=1997 ... etc (I think it starts from 96, memory fails me). The number is the week, so the 18th week, and the last letter I don't know but wasn't significant. If you have the date code, I'd say you probably have Sanyo cells.


----------



## Gr8Scott

Brewguy said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I stumbled across this thread the other day and it caught my interest. Here's why.
> 
> I use electronic cigarettes. Most of our "advanced" devices use anything from 18350 to 18650 batteries in them. Needless to say, the light bulb went on. I hopped on eBay and found a replacement battery for my laptop. Knowing that I rarely if ever use the battery on my laptop, I wasn't going to use my current battery for the experiment (never unplugged for any length of time), but would use the new one.
> 
> Got it today, opened it up and saw the 6 18650 batteries that I anticipated finding. Tested all of them with my multi-meter and they were all 3.92v. Not bad, 6 for 6.
> 
> But, the question that I have is, since these aren't labeled as anything more than 18650, I'm wondering on mah and brand to do more investigating as to whether or not these are going to be worthwhile to use.
> 
> Here is a picture of the battery:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pulled from a battery pack for a Dell XPS M11530 laptop.
> 
> Can anyone point me in the right direction to figure out the mystery that are these batteries?
> 
> Thanks!




DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!

_*(This information is made for people who use E-cigs for "vaping". I have been an Ecig user for about a year and a half and have a reasonably good handle on the mechanics of same.)*_




I wish I would have seen this thread a month ago when it was posted.


You must absolutely* NEVER* use alternatively acquired Li-ion cells for e-cigarette mods. Never, never, and did I mention..._*N E V E R*_ ?

_
( FYI for non- e-cig users, a "mod" is simply an e-cig without a built in disposable battery, for simplicity sake")_


The short answer is this: E-cigs (mods) are high drain devices, requiring high drain cells.


Especially mechanical mods with no built in protection circuits found in such models as the Vamo, Provari, SID, Tesla and etc. These models will automatically shut down at around 3.5v and will not accept atomizers with resistances below 1 to 1.25Ω.


_(The Mechanical mods in the e-cig world are similar to a direct drive flashlight. The main difference is that an E-cig pulses at a high drainage rate.)
_

There is a protection chip available called a "Vape Safe" (which, at a whopping cost of about 3 bucks) will interrupt current preventing over discharge and also disallow atomizer resistances below .5Ω (sub-ohm). It's magnetized and placed on the top of a Li-ion cell.


Regarding the latter, "sub-ohming": With the popularity of purely mechanical "mods" using atomizers at extremely low resistance has become the trend. (For many reasons which I will not discuss at this juncture as the purpose of this response is to keep people from blowing their faces off with harvested Lithium cells). This sub-ohming requires, more than ever, cells engineered for high drain applications. And IMR chemistry.


Anyway, if you do not exercise a modicum of safety with e-cigs...well, _*you are playing Russian Roulette with a Claymore aimed at your face.


This must be understood.
*_



I am someone who has been using E-cigs and advanced personal vaporizers (APVs) extensively for going on a year and a half. I am not just a reactionary who saw something on Youtube or heard about this or that on the news. I know of what I speak.





I am attaching this:








not just for "sub-ohmers" but for anyone who is into vaping(using E-cigs).






Even if you have a mod with built in protection you need to be using safe chemistry. Spend a extra dollar or so and get one of these quality cells.

Once again, even if you are not sub-ohming, even if you have a VV/VW (variable voltage variable wattage) e-cig mod with built in protection circuitry, get some of these batteries and play it safe. Your life and your face are worth it 

And don't stack 18350s or RCR123s. It's unnecessary and ridiculously dangerous.


----------



## xamindar

Umm, so I don't get it. Did one blow up in your face? You state never never but did not give any examples or personal experience of why. Therefore your post comes across as an advertisement,

Sent from my A510 using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr Floppy

xamindar said:


> Umm, so I don't get it. Did one blow up in your face? You state never never but did not give any examples or personal experience of why. Therefore your post comes across as an advertisement,



I think it is a good warning but it isn't in the right place. Should be in the Smoke and Fire sub forum. It will get buried here for a start. A private message might have been better too as most of us here aren't interested in e-cigs.

It does raise the general warning for this thread in that it is sometimes very hard to find good information about batteries harvested from laptop battery packs and hard to judge age. Exercise caution when using them, and don't discharge them too hard (i.e over 1C etc).


----------



## markr6

I feel like I destroyed my laptop pack too soon. It was at least 5 years old, but all 6 batteries seem pretty good NOW that I pulled them out. Charged to 4.17v. Dropped to 4.13v overnight. Holding at 4.13v for about 2 weeks now.


----------



## Mr Floppy

markr6 said:


> I feel like I destroyed my laptop pack too soon. It was at least 5 years old, but all 6 batteries seem pretty good



You may find diminished capacity from the cells. They will still hold their voltage but capacity may be around 75% of the nominal capacity. This is where I wish I had something like a C9000 for Li-Ions. I use my hobby charger to get the capacity but it is a slow process with the number of cells I have harvested.


----------



## markr6

Mr Floppy said:


> You may find diminished capacity from the cells. They will still hold their voltage but capacity may be around 75% of the nominal capacity. This is where I wish I had something like a C9000 for Li-Ions. I use my hobby charger to get the capacity but it is a slow process with the number of cells I have harvested.



A hobby charger is on my list for that reason - would be nice to know the capacity. Only being 2000mAh batteries, I guess I can run them in one of my lights on a medium-high setting in a reasonable amount of time to get an estimate.

Now that I think of it you're right about the diminished capacity. I think the laptop lasted 2.5 hrs new. Towards the end I bet it was well under 2hrs.


----------



## Zapiao

The PCB inside the battery pack has a MCU ?


----------



## ginbot86

Yes. Laptop batteries contain a "fuel gauge" chip that provides information to the laptop in regards to voltage, current, capacity, temperature and any sort of fault conditions that might occur in use. Laptop batteries communicate over SMBus (System Management Bus) and use what's called the SBS (Smart Battery System) protocol. Almost all laptop batteries' data can be read out this way. However, few people have the hardware and software to interface with them, and every manufacturer has their own pin mappings for their battery connectors.

A few years back I plunked down some cash to buy a box from Texas Instruments so I could analyze various laptop batteries I had lying around. Here's a screenshot showing what sort of data can be read from these batteries (click the image for a full screen version):


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

my old R61 laptops had battery application in the system tray that would actually tell you useful info about the battery pack. Managed to score a battery pack that showed only 30 or 40 cycles, and yet was not able to keep the system powered. 

3s3p, one series string was bad. Still should have been able to power laptop, but whatever. I won't look a gift horse in the mouth.


----------



## Blindguy

flatline said:


> Here's the recipe I use to determine which cells are healthy enough to be usable. If any of you see something that could be improved, please let me know (I think I'm probably being too conservative, but don't really know for sure).
> 
> 1. measure cell voltage. if it's less than 2.5v, throw it away.
> 2. charge the cell. if it gets hot during charging, throw it away.
> 3. measure cell voltage off the charger. verify it's between 4.1 and 4.2v.
> 4. wait 30 minutes
> 5. measure cell voltage. if it's fallen less than 4v, throw it away. Otherwise record the voltage.
> 6. store cell for 3+ days in cool, dry place.
> 7. measure cell voltage. if cell voltage has fallen more than .1v from the recorded voltage, throw it away.
> 
> Any cell that hasn't been thrown away by the time I'm through with step 7, I keep and put into my regular cell rotation.
> 
> EDIT: I'm no authority, but since nobody tried to correct me, I'm willing to assume that there's nothing obviously wrong with the above recipe.
> 
> --flatline


This is one old thread but it has helped me sort through all the batteries that were giving to me. (Makita 18v Li-ion packs & Lenovo laptop packs)
I'm still going through them and so far the laptop batteries are junk. Measuring in @ .8v ~ 1.4v. :sick2:
Now the Makita's... 3.7v ~ 3.9v

I will thank you again like others have for posting this.


----------



## flatline

Blindguy said:


> This is one old thread but it has helped me sort through all the batteries that were giving to me. (Makita 18v Li-ion packs & Lenovo laptop packs)
> I'm still going through them and so far the laptop batteries are junk. Measuring in @ .8v ~ 1.4v. :sick2:
> Now the Makita's... 3.7v ~ 3.9v
> 
> I will thank you again like others have for posting this.



I'm glad my recipe has been useful to you. As you learn more about using scavenged cells, please feel free to share any changes you decide to make to my recipe. I'm no expert in the subject, so it's entirely possible that there are better tests to use or that my values are overly cautious (or not cautious enough!).

Stay safe!

--flatline


----------



## baggieboy999

hi everyone , I recently stumbled upon this thread . And as I had a acer laptop battery lying around thought I may as well get the 18650's out. I've opened it up and removed the casing , but the formation seems different to the photos on here . And there is a red wire running from the positive on the first battery all the way to the negative on the third battery. Heres a pic of what they look like could some advise if I can just carefully cut through the red wire , and then carefully cut each metal contact . Thanks





[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## gallon

Gr8Scott said:


> DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!
> 
> _*(This information is made for people who use E-cigs for "vaping". I have been an Ecig user for about a year and a half and have a reasonably good handle on the mechanics of same.)*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I would have seen this thread a month ago when it was posted.
> 
> 
> You must absolutely* NEVER* use alternatively acquired Li-ion cells for e-cigarette mods. Never, never, and did I mention..._*N E V E R*_ ?
> 
> _
> ( FYI for non- e-cig users, a "mod" is simply an e-cig without a built in disposable battery, for simplicity sake")_
> 
> 
> The short answer is this: E-cigs (mods) are high drain devices, requiring high drain cells.
> 
> 
> Especially mechanical mods with no built in protection circuits found in such models as the Vamo, Provari, SID, Tesla and etc. These models will automatically shut down at around 3.5v and will not accept atomizers with resistances below 1 to 1.25Ω.
> 
> 
> _(The Mechanical mods in the e-cig world are similar to a direct drive flashlight. The main difference is that an E-cig pulses at a high drainage rate.)
> _
> 
> There is a protection chip available called a "Vape Safe" (which, at a whopping cost of about 3 bucks) will interrupt current preventing over discharge and also disallow atomizer resistances below .5Ω (sub-ohm). It's magnetized and placed on the top of a Li-ion cell.
> 
> 
> Regarding the latter, "sub-ohming": With the popularity of purely mechanical "mods" using atomizers at extremely low resistance has become the trend. (For many reasons which I will not discuss at this juncture as the purpose of this response is to keep people from blowing their faces off with harvested Lithium cells). This sub-ohming requires, more than ever, cells engineered for high drain applications. And IMR chemistry.
> 
> 
> Anyway, if you do not exercise a modicum of safety with e-cigs...well, _*you are playing Russian Roulette with a Claymore aimed at your face.
> 
> 
> This must be understood.
> *_
> 
> 
> 
> I am someone who has been using E-cigs and advanced personal vaporizers (APVs) extensively for going on a year and a half. I am not just a reactionary who saw something on Youtube or heard about this or that on the news. I know of what I speak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am attaching this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not just for "sub-ohmers" but for anyone who is into vaping(using E-cigs).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if you have a mod with built in protection you need to be using safe chemistry. Spend a extra dollar or so and get one of these quality cells.
> 
> Once again, even if you are not sub-ohming, even if you have a VV/VW (variable voltage variable wattage) e-cig mod with built in protection circuitry, get some of these batteries and play it safe. Your life and your face are worth it
> 
> And don't stack 18350s or RCR123s. It's unnecessary and ridiculously dangerous.




Gr8Scott, could I trouble you for a link or two on the basics of playing with those kinds of mods? Not a smoker here and I have no intention of starting. My game is physical electronics. On this board there is a lot of good info on batteries and charging, which is all interesting.

Regarding the vaporizers, I would wish to play and assess and consider whether it is applicable to modeling. There are instances where a smoke stream could enhance the model. And not just trains either. Other vehicles. Smokestacks on structures. And so on. Also, can the vapor be colored? Browns and dark grays and soots as well as whites?

A pm is possible if you would rather.


----------



## danbi

After reading this thread decided to try with an old HP nw8440 battery pack. The laptop is from 2006 vintage and the battery pack has been sitting for over a year unused (replaced with another one). I regret for not charging it before breaking in, but.. 

That battery pack contains 8 cells, in four groups of two parallel cells. One of the cells apparently was not welded very well at the positive end, which might explain why the pack was not behaving very well (very short runtimes). Out of the 8 cells, 3 measured zero voltage and thus were further ignored. The other 5 cells measures 1-1.5V. Since at the moment I only have an Nitecore i4 charger for Li-Ion, I put each of the batteries for 5-10 seconds in the charger. All of the five cells rose up quickly to 2.6V and was then failing slowly in voltage. After an hour or so, I put them in the charger again and this time for 5 minutes. This time the voltage did not rise fast. After five minutes, the batteries had 3.2V charge. I left then these batteries to rest for three days. After three days, the 3.2V charge was still there and I put four of them in the charger (no place for the fifth) for few hours. Since I had to leave, and would not leave them charging unattended, they were removed at 4V. I plan to continue charging tomorrow, then test capacity.

But my question is: should I worry that the cells were sitting at under 1.5V initially?


----------



## oldvultureface

For those of us with physically polarity protected lights, what is the preferred method of dealing with the re-purposed battery? Solder blob? Magnet? Or is there a bettery (hehe) way?


----------



## Mr Floppy

baggieboy999 said:


> hi everyone , I recently stumbled upon this thread . And as I had a acer laptop battery lying around thought I may as well get the 18650's out. I've opened it up and removed the casing , but the formation seems different to the photos on here . And there is a red wire running from the positive on the first battery all the way to the negative on the third battery. Heres a pic of what they look like could some advise if I can just carefully cut through the red wire , and then carefully cut each metal contact . Thanks



The pack is in 3S2P, just the contacts have to be beidged to make it so. I had a similar one. If you cut the contacts from the board first, you can pretty much get the pack spread into a parallel configuration and it'll look quite clear. Just be careful spreading the cells out before you cut them.



danbi said:


> But my question is: should I worry that the cells were sitting at under 1.5V initially?



I normally chuck anything out under 2.5V but everything you've done seems OK. I would try and measure internal resistance and check capacity if you can.


----------



## Blindguy

flatline said:


> I'm glad my recipe has been useful to you. As you learn more about using scavenged cells, please feel free to share any changes you decide to make to my recipe. I'm no expert in the subject, so it's entirely possible that there are better tests to use or that my values are overly cautious (or not cautious enough!).
> 
> Stay safe!
> 
> --flatline


I just got done with four of my better "recovered" 18650's.

Off the Charger/ 30 mins later / Three days later
4.18v / 4.17v / 4.17v
4.18 / 4.18 / 4.17
4.22 / 4.22 / 4.22
4.18 / 4.18 / 4.17

These are keepers. :twothumbs

I look at it this way. The Makita battery packs were given to me. i.e. free. Same as the laptop packs. The laptop batteries tested voltage sucked. They are being recycled. 
I'm not so cheap as I have to try to bring back dead cells to life again. I still have many, many handfuls to go through. So as far as being overly cautious, who cares? Bad cells go bye-bye.
Keeps me off the streets and out of trouble. :naughty:


----------



## danbi

danbi said:


> But my question is: should I worry that the cells were sitting at under 1.5V initially?



The Nitecore i4 is SLOW with four cells  Today I had all of them charge, from over 3.9xxV (down from 4V when charged last night) up to 4.18V at the time I had to remove them from the charger. Tomorrow the cells will be topped to 4.2V. Each next time, the cells stay cooler when charged. Next, the capacity test.


----------



## kosPap

solder blob if yuo melt alot on the tip and you just touch it on the battery top to transfer it.
It is not advisable to keppign it hot more than 1-2 seconds there.

But search the forum for my way of button top adapters


----------



## oldvultureface

kosPap said:


> solder blob ...



Thanks. Works well.


----------



## kosPap

that little?


----------



## oldvultureface

kosPap said:


> that little?



I wondered about that. Is this better?


----------



## kosPap

yes! But i hope you ddi not heat the cell too much.
I think the "best" method (cos actually the whole idea is not advised) is to use soldering past and fastly tin the contact with alittle soder.
then melt solder on the tip of the iron and transfer the blob on the battery


----------



## oldvultureface

I did it as you described. I used a low wattage pencil type soldering iron and soldering paste. The solder flowed from the tip to the contact in about two seconds so there was minimal heating of the cell. Thanks again.


----------



## Jam-bro

I just extracted 9 cells off a laptop battery... Got 9 orange Sanyo UR18650ZTs. All had the exact 4.04 volts. SCORE!!! I am going to charge them all and see how they do.


----------



## kartman13

I thought removing batteries from a laptop battery pack will be easy, but boy was i wrong. I literally fought with my battery pack and it didn't budge. Tried to pry it open in every spot and finally used a plier to break it apart. The batteries were taken from a lenovo lappy.

I trimmed both solder tabs instead of removing it. Will this result in a weak contact?










And secondly, the cell looks like a *Sanyo UR18650F 2400mAh, *Can anyone please tell me the discharge rate of this battery?
The only info I found suggests that it has *Continuous discharge rate of 2.40A * & *Burst discharge rate (60 secs) of 4.8A, *but I'm not sure of this info. 
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Lionhearted

There is no need to quote the OP in its entirety - Norm

That's awesome! At least you know when you take them out of an OEM pack that they are not fake batteries. Here is a video I made on harvesting batteries. Mine where LGDS318650 2200mAh. I can tell from the weight alone that they are better than the crappy Ultrafire batteries I have that claim to be 4500mAh. Here is the vid


----------



## Mr Floppy

Lionhearted said:


> Here is a video I made on harvesting batteries.



Nice video but wow, you rip those tabs off with some force. I tend to take a lighter approach when removing the tabs or just trimming them back.


----------



## skygear

*sitting on a couple less than 100 right now. Haven't found any vtc4 or vtc5 yet. Using the nitecore d-4 for charging, and store them all in a pelican case. Using the cardboard as an insulator. Pulled the piece I had for the center divider, and additional seperators for the different cells for the pic*


----------



## caleb_v

skygear said:


> *sitting on a couple less than 100 right now. Haven't found any vtc4 or vtc5 yet. Using the nitecore d-4 for charging, and store them all in a pelican case. Using the cardboard as an insulator. Pulled the piece I had for the center divider, and additional seperators for the different cells for the pic*



I have about 60 cells now that I have harvested and have found mostly Samsung and Sanyo.have you had the same experience?


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## skygear

*So far, I have +50ish Sanyos. Really surprised me to find them in a Sony branded battery.

The rest are a mix of LG and Samsung.

I have been meaning to get a count of each, I'll do that in a few minutes*


----------



## caleb_v

What do you use to do mah tests on your cells??


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## skygear

There were a couple methods mentioned in this thread that would be useful to most. I saw this also, http://www.ehow.com/how_8637164_measure-mah-multimeter.html - 

Frankly, I stopped testing after I sold off my last 600+. It got to be too time consuming. I do use my multimeter, plus This NiteCore D-4 has been awesome. I Pop them in and see voltage immediately - Been looking for an All in one Charger that does the testing in it too. But haven't come up with anything yet. I need to really get on that. 

I'm open to suggestions.


----------



## SilverFox

Hello 420brightlight,

Welcome to CPF.

Your 4.2 volt charger will work fine.

Tom


----------



## NeilP

skygear said:


> Been looking for an All in one Charger that does the testing in it too. But haven't come up with anything yet. I need to really get on that.
> 
> I'm open to suggestions.




Not sure if it is quite what you are looking for but try looking a Remote Control aircraft hobby battery chargers, like the iCharger series. I have a 3010b and 4010Duo.

but the smaller 6 series 106b would be just as good.
would need to construct a battery holder or buy something 

Also get the log view software or LogView Studio.

you can then hook up to a PC and display a graph of the discharge curve 

Good prices of these chargers at HobbyKing.com They heave warehouses in Europe, UK and USA


----------



## NeilP

skygear said:


> Been looking for an All in one Charger that does the testing in it too. But haven't come up with anything yet. I need to really get on that.
> 
> I'm open to suggestions.




Not sure if it is quite what you are looking for but try looking a Remote Control aircraft hobby battery chargers, like the iCharger series. I have a 3010b and 4010Duo.

but the smaller 6 series 106b would be just as good.
would need to construct a battery holder or buy something 

Also get the log view software or LogView Studio.

you can then hook up to a PC and display a graph of the discharge curve 

Good prices of these chargers at HobbyKing.com They heave warehouses in Europe, UK and USA 

These sort of chargers do need an external PSU though, 12-36 volt input.

they can charge NiCd, NiMh, LiPo, Li Ion, LiFePO4, lead acid, and you can set both max voltage and min voltage and do cycles. So you can set the charger to cycle a cell, up to 5 times charge/discharge etc.
Internal memory to store the results so you don't have to levee permanently connected to the PC.
You then connect to the PC and transmit the data to the Logview software.


----------



## wrcsixeight

Hello all.

I just joined the ranks of 18650 extractors.

My battery pack was a 9 cell extended pack for a Dell latitude. It was a replacement pack bought via Amazon 2 years ago for around 30$ and gave respectable service.

The 24$ 11.1v 7200mAh replacement battery arrived today, and after verifying it charged to 100% and has an acceptable run time, I opened up my old pack, which was labelled 11.1V 6600mAh.

When I removed battery from laptop it read ~15% charged. The battery would power the laptop for less than a half hour total from full charge, At low screen brightness, just using internet. When new it was about 3.25 hours.

My voltmeter revealed 3 adjacent cells read 3.70v, the 6 other cells read 4.04v.

The markings reveal them to be SZN cells but a direct googling of their markings reveals no direct matches.
ASO FH2G251EF Kind of a baby blue wrapping with a greenish tinge. I found some lookalikes on Alibaba, colorwise, that said they were 1900mAh cells.

I only have one single cell flashlight which can reliably take flat top 18650's. My Nitecore HC50 sometimes works with bare panasonic NCR 18650 flat tops, other times no, and I primarily use my Orbitronics 3400 Mahs in that, which cost more than this whole battery pack of 9 cells.

I was surprised to see these voltages so high from a battery pack which performed so badly. Run times had really dropped off quickly the last few weeks.

Do you think it possible the 3 lower cells were taken out of the loop by the electronics in the pack?

I've got a NiteCore i4 charger version 2. I'm guessing the 3 lower cells which were adjacent, are 'less' safe to try charging? 

Any words of wisdom or comments?


----------



## NeilP

It could always possibly be the BMS circuit that has failed

Out of interest if you have not stripped the pack off the electronics you could try charging the three low voltage cells back up to 4.2 volts with your normal charger.
You would leave them in parallel, in the pack and take some jump leads from your charger to the low cells

You could maybe top up the others too
Or just pop the disassembled pack in the laptop, leave upside down, on charge via the laptop PSU and see if the pack BMS is working and if they do eventually over 48 hours or so come up to full again. The BMS may need that long.

Or just rip them all out and keep the low volt cells seperate, mark them and charge one at a time with your regular charger.
In a block of three , if could well be just one duff one pulling the others down



Once they are charged you co


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## wrcsixeight

Afraid I already separated all the cells from each other and the BMS.

I've got 4 of the cells which read over 4 volts on the I4 charger as I type. None are getting warm. But considering they all read 4.04 the indicators on each cell are a bit different with 2 cells flashing 3 lights now and the other two, 2 lights.

I tested the remaining ones in my flashlight. One of the 3.7v cells was noticeably dimmer than the other two 3.7's, and the 4.04s are noticeably brighter as expected. It is not a high quality 18650 flashlight.

I've marked the 3.7v cell which was dimmest under load. I guess it would be better to not even bother charging it?

It still read 3.7v after powering the light for a minute at full brightness. I dont really have a good way to measure voltage under load.


----------



## NeilP

If you had a charger like the 3010b or 106, from Junsi iCharger you could load test them 
Otherwise just charge them all up and leave them sit unused for a few days, checking voltage.
Any that loose voltage very quickly you can probably just dump. 
Volt check every 24 hrs to see 

Or just leave them all for a week or so then pick the ones that have kept best voltage.


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----------



## NeilP

wrcsixeight said:


> I've marked the 3.7v cell which was dimmest under load. I guess it would be better to not even bother charging it?



If you have the time, no harm trying





wrcsixeight said:


> It still read 3.7v after powering the light for a minute at full brightness. I dont really have a good way to measure voltage under load.



If you can find a way to rig up the battery under test to the lamp without it being in the battery tube, them that is the solution.

Rig it up power up the light then measure voltage across the cell at intervals..every minute, , or 5 mins or so and see .


Ideally a 2 Ω wire wound resistor, across the cell. Ignoring battery IR, that should give about a 2 amp load. so that is 1C, near enough, considering the cells you have are 2200mAh (3 cells in parallel giving your 6600 original capacity)

Or just find an old bulb or similar that can take 4.2 volts, and rig the battery to that. Maybe try it first via an ammeter and that bulb and see what current that load it draws. an old motorcycle 6 volt bulb would be fine, try a selection of wattage bulbs to get a draw of a couple of amps. you may need to parallel a few bulbs up to get the resistance low enough. No need to get the bulls glowing, as long as they are drawing current.


If you wanted to log the data, and did not want to go to the expense of an iCharger, then a basic data logger multi point voltmeter for about $18 from the likes of Hobby king, will do the data logging for you and have an alarm go off so you can hear when your cell reaches a volte where you want to stop testing. What you want is the Celllog 8S..not the 8M the M does not have the data logging capability.



if you wanted to get really clever you could use the alarm output to shut off a relay, via an external power source, so when cell voltage hits 2.7 volts..or 3 volts .whatever voltage you chose) the load disconnects from the cell.



Just checked , Hobby King the 8S is only available from the International site from what I can see

I just remembered, I thing kyou have to test two cells t a time minimum..the unit does not power up from just a single cell. Don't forget to buy an extension lead too, with a plug on it to connect batteries to the Cell Log. Cant see 8s leads (9 pins ) . But you just need as many wires, plus One, as cells you are testing..so 2 cells, 3 wire lead, 3 cells 4 wire lead etc. More wires, no problem, just leave them un connected. So if yo buy a 6 S extension as I linked to, it will have 7 wires.

Remember the more cells you put in series, you would have to change your load too, to maintain the 1C (2 amp load).. You could test at 2 C....4.4 amps and see what the cells do. Depends on the drain your lamp is taking.


----------



## wrcsixeight

Thanks for all the info NeilP!

I dont really have any extra funds nor extra time at the moment to pursue satiating my curiosity as to the condition and capacity remaining in these cells. My 18650 uses are fairly limited and the 4 panasonic NCR-b cells I had before opening this pack were more than adequate in my rotation, and flat tops do not always work in my HC50 which gets the most use.

But I am a tinkerer by nature and opening a battery pack for 9 more cells was a no brainer.

So far the 4 I charged are holding 4.2v 12 hours later. The dim 3.7v cell is still 3.704v, I've yet to put it on the charger.

I noticed there is a little toggle button on the BMS. There appears to be a little sticker I could have removed, if I were aware of it, and depressed this little toggle button. What function would this serve?


----------



## NeilP

Possibly a test button. With the cells in place it may have lit up a row of LED's

I have seen a couple of packs like that

If you have flat tops but need buttons, then I Jude carefully fold back and trim some of the old spot welded interconnect strip.
Not the best, but a blob of solder does the job too.




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## wrcsixeight

Ahh you are correct. Looking closer I can now see the LEDs.

Too bad I already removed the tabs from the battery tops


----------



## NeilP

wrcsixeight said:


> Too bad I already removed the tabs from the battery tops



Solder it is then. Obicously don't get the head too hot. Prep the surface first, gentle grind/ clean and flux before solder


----------



## wrcsixeight

NeilP said:


> Solder it is then. Obicously don't get the head too hot. Prep the surface first, gentle grind/ clean and flux before solder




I've yet to dremel off the little abrasive weld tabs left on the tops, but the few cells I've tried, have worked in my HC50.

One of the three 3.7v cells that I recharged, and read 4.2v warm off the charger, is now 4.04v about 12 hours later. it is not the cell which was noticeably dimmer in my light. That one, when recharged was just as bright as other cells, and is holding 4.2v so far.

My soldering skills are improving, but my 40 watt Weller iron is a bit weak for other projects I have in mind, and I'm searching out higher wattage options for more heat in less time.


----------



## NeilP

Look out a solder station, some ramp down the temperature until you remove the iron from the stand, then ramp up really quickly 
This help to save the tip


I muck around with e-bikes and controllers that run 18 x IRFB4110 MSFETS with massively beefed up PC tracks built up with solder and de-solder braid and solid core wire. For de soldering those I use a 350 Watt Stained Glass window / plumbers soldering iron with a 1 inch tip.!


----------



## fallingshad0wz

*Samsung 18650 Laptop Batteries Safe?*

OK so I had a laptop that had a hdd issue (long story not important) so I was parting out the laptop and I decided to open the battery pack and get the batteries out. After that I got them out and all the wire crap and stuff off. My question is are they safe to use in my eBay stereotype $12.00 Cree XML-T6 flashlight. It takes two 18650 batteries. Would you recommend using it on anyflashlight. Here is exactly what they say on the sides excluding the parenthesis (ICR18650-22F) (SAMSUNG SDI) (1BB1) I will also include a picture. I also want to know if they are safe to charge. right now i have cheap ebay chargers but I am buying a Nitecore IntelliCharger I4 charger off of Amazon


----------



## LetThereBeLite

*fallingshad0wz*, what brand was the laptop?
was the battery pack the original one that came with the Branded laptop or an aftermarket 3rd party pack?

If your battery pack was the original one from a branded laptop, it's a safer bet than aftermarket 3rd party battery packs -- especially those very cheap/inexpensive ones from ebay or Amazon.

Given that your eBay $12 light takes 2 18650 cells, and given that these cells are un-protected, the wise bet is NOT to use them in your $12 light. It should technically work, but not the safest idea to use un-protected cells in a flashlight requiring multiple cells. 

You should be able to use individual cells in 1 cell flashlights.


----------



## fallingshad0wz

It was a HP Notebook and the label on the battery pack said MU06 HP Notebook Battery. It came with the laptop. How do you tell if they are unprotected?


----------



## NeilP

Protected cells a little longer , by 3-4 mm or so. They have a circuit board on them, same diameter as the cell.
Unlikely,from my experience of 8 stripped laptop packs , to be protected. The circuit board in the pack would have been the protection.

I'd say yes, go ahead and use them even at 2 in series in your 2cell lamp 

The worst that can happen is you kill one cell if it is a bit iffy. The danger comes if you massively over discharge a cell and then try and charge it with a high current charger . They don't just spontaneously catch fire on discharge. 

If both cells are equal then they will both discharge at close enough the same rate. 

If you keep an eye on the voltages, I'd not even bother doing any massive testing of them. 
Ideally check voltage of each cell number them and make notes.
Charge all the cells.
Let them sit for a few hours.
Measure voltages of cells again and pair up, by closest voltages. Any that have dropped voltage below 4 volts, well , I keep them and use for low drain projects, but if you only need, 4 good ones, just keep the best.

Now, here is important part.
Your paired up cells, put them in your lamp and run it on full for a while. No idea how long, that will depend on power of your lamp and cell capacity 
Maybe initially stop after 10 or 20. mins, check cell voltages . Are they both within 0.05-0.1 volts? If so carry on. 

Keep going checking every 10 mins or so, till they drop down to 3 volts or so. If the lamp is good enough if may have some low voltage protection so may cut out when voltage gets too low.

If they have both stayed close voltagewise to each other then they are well enough matched.

What you don't want is to run two cells in series that drop voltage at different rates. Otherwise one will drop too low first 
Below 2.7 -2.5 is bad for the cell, potentially causing irreversible damage.

For the first few uses, I'd keep checking cell voltages before you charge, just to keep an eye that they are staying matched.

If you wanted to be clever you could work out the Ah roughly of your cells. Use your multimeter in current mode to measure battery current. So leave tail cap off, put meter in 10 amp mode, swap leads at meter to correct sockets if necessary. Positive Red lead to the base of the battery neg terminal and negative lead to flashlight body.
Fire up the lamp with body switch if there is one, or if it has a tail cap switch it will now be on.

Read off the current being drawn.
Depending on your meter and its range scales, you may need to go down to a lower current mode

So if it is drawing 1amp and your lamp runs for an hour, that is 1 amp hour. 
1amp for 2 hours = 2Ah
2 amp for 1hour = 2Ah 

0.5 amps (500mA) for 2 HR = 1Ah

Etc,

Maybe Google the battery spec and see if you can find what their actual rating is supposed to be and compare to what you get


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## mummel

I had no idea laptop batteries had these in them. This is great. Thanks.


----------



## fallingshad0wz

can somebody help me i am using an older multimeter to measure the voltage of my 18650 batteries. I have it set to 10 DC Voltage. The weird thing is, is that there are coming up as 5.8 volts, almost 6 volts. Is this because they are not being used like not being drawn power from and just sitting there or is there something I am doing wrong with the multimeter.


----------



## fallingshad0wz

it gets even weirder or maybe not so wierd and just common sense. I just measured the batteries(the samsung ones from my laptop battery pack) I posted about 20 posts back. They all read just around 4 volts while my Chinese made ultrafire (who knows what they really are or what brand) were measuring a about 6 volts at a full charge what the heck is Ultrafire always like this I would think that they had lower voltage not higher


----------



## HKJ

Try replacing the battery in the meter.


----------



## fallingshad0wz

HKJ said:


> Try replacing the battery in the meter.


already did and calibrated it


----------



## NeilP

fallingshad0wz said:


> The weird thing is, is that there are coming up as 5.8 volts, almost 6 volts. Is this because they are not being used like not being drawn power from and just sitting there



No, resting , open circuit voltage should still not be more than 4.2 volts.




fallingshad0wz said:


> or is there something I am doing wrong with the multimeter.



Possible but unlikely.
If you have fresh battery, DC Volt range and leads plugged in to meter correctly there is nothing to do wrong. 
You say older meter, how old? Is it digital display or moving coil with a needle ?





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## NeilP

Did they all get charged in the same charger?




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## fallingshad0wz

NeilP said:


> No, resting , open circuit voltage should still not be more than 4.2 volts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Possible but unlikely.
> If you have fresh battery, DC Volt range and leads plugged in to meter correctly there is nothing to do wrong.
> You say older meter, how old? Is it digital display or moving coil with a needle ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums



I am using one with a moving coil and needle


----------



## fallingshad0wz

NeilP said:


> No, resting , open circuit voltage should still not be more than 4.2 volts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Possible but unlikely.
> If you have fresh battery, DC Volt range and leads plugged in to meter correctly there is nothing to do wrong.
> You say older meter, how old? Is it digital display or moving coil with a needle ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums



It's pretty old like idk how old but it'd old


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## NeilP

'Old is relative to how old you are' ..I 'd say a meter that is 15 years old and digital is fairly modern, 

So if it is moving coil ,it could well be a mechanical problem. I could see that an older meter with a lower resistance cold potentially give a lower voltage reading due to the IR of the meter, but not a higher voltage
getting meter set wrong is a possibility.

just had a very similar conversation with a bloke with the username scoot-e over on the e-bike forums...He was getting 110volts out of a 50 volt Lipo charger..till he realised he was using his meter incorrectly.

i'd nip down to you local Halfords/RadioShack/harbour Freight /etc and pick up a cheap $5 meter and try again.


----------



## jtgr94

Hey all!

I figured I'd join this forum, you guys seem to know a fair bit about batteries. I know a fair bit too, so I think we'll get along.

I dissected my old laptop battery, found some Sony GRs.






I doubt I'll ever have any use for them, given they appear to be maybe 1A?
Using Sony's date code method, I do believe they were made in 2004, at plant E, on the 14th day. I would be pushing it to assume that they have a 10A Max.

Oh well, time to steal neighbors laptop battery packs. 

Have a good day ladies 'n' gents!


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## xzel87

Question, how hot/warm is considered too hot when charging up a salvaged cell?, I'm using an xtar mc2 and based on HKJ review the charger does get warm and will warm up batteries to some extent.

I've salvaged 3 packs, one pack gets considerably warm when charging and getting close to the 4V mark. The other pack gets warm as well when reaching 4V mark. these 2 packs had cells that measure between 2.8V and 3.4V. The third pack had cells measuring between 3.6V to 3.8V, and this set stays cool throughout the charging period. Does this mean that the internal resistance of batteries is high if it gets warm during charging?

The 3 packs contains cells from Panasonic, Sanyo & Sony in the order described above.


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Xzel87,

As cells age they warm up during charging. I prefer cells to remain cool and think you may be taking some additional risk when a cell heats up.

In absolute terms, "too hot" is when the cell vents. Usually the cell is too hot to hold in your hand just prior to this.

If the cells are free, why take chances? Just use the cells that stay cool and move on. On the other hand if you are curious you can continue to use those cells and set up a charging area that can handle a rapid venting with flame incident. Unfortunately as cells degrade they are less predictable. Just because 1 cell behaves in a certain way near the end of life doesn't mean the next cell (or brand) will behave the same way.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the cells that are warming up probably aren't providing the same performance as the others. Depending upon your application this degradation in performance may or may not be observed but rigorous testing should show a difference.

Tom


----------



## NeilP

Not scientific, but when dealing with ANY lithium chemistry, I reckon if it is too hot to grab and hold for an extended period, then it is too hot..otherwise, it is fine.

Cooler the better, but if you can hold it then I'd not worry too much.


----------



## NeilP

Looks like we cross posted



SilverFox said:


> Hello Xzel87,
> As cells age they warm up during charging. I prefer cells to remain cool and think you may be taking some additional risk when a cell heats up.


True


......................
.
.
..
.



SilverFox said:


> In absolute terms, "too hot" is when the cell vents. Usually the cell is too hot to hold in your hand just prior to this.


Yep.





....................
.
..
.
.



SilverFox said:


> If the cells are free, why take chances? Just use the cells that stay cool and move on.



this is where I disagree... I'd say take the chance.......but only if you can isolate the charger from the cell via jump leads and your cells are in a safe fire proof place, or you don't mind potentially sacrificing a charger and it is in a fire proof place.

.
.
.
.




SilverFox said:


> on the other hand if you are curious you can continue to use those cells and set up a charging area that can handle a rapid venting with flame incident.



Now you're talking!!

I've tested many to destruction, it is surprising how much abuse they can take before you can get them to blow.

take a look here.

This is with a far more volatile cell, a 5Ah individual LiPo cell pouch/

Sorry about the poor quality of the video, but you will get the idea of the abuse they can take before they blow. They are nasty things when they blow, but it is actually surprisingly difficult to get that to happen





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FRjFxKoUYQ


----------



## xzel87

Thanks for the input Tom and Neil.

I suppose I should err on the side of caution.

Will retest the voltages (3 day period) and I'll see what to do with them by them. If the 3rd pack of 6 cells is good was planning to use them in my w502 with a spare to be used in the car. The remaining 4 will be stored as backup battery for the light and/or powerbank (ML-102/Ruinovo 4 Cell). Basically these cells will not be involved in any Primary/Important roles, just as backups.

Since I don't have a discharger, will have to use flashlight current draw to estimate capacity. Unfortunately the w502 hasn't arrived yet for that purpose so I'm sitting on my hands at the moment.

For the other cells that warm up while charging, may use them for lantern duty or for very low power draw situations since I expect their capacity to be greatly diminished.


----------



## NeilP

For a cheap build to test cells search e-bay

This looks too high voltage for a single cell, but there are many others that log Ah and show voltage.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181626529280 

Connect up a cell, via one of these, and a bulb, a 12 volt car bulb will do. No idea what wattage you will need or how many either in series to decrease current, or in parallel to increase current.

Just select a bulb or three to give whatever discharge current you think appropriate. 

Then let it run, keeping an eye on the voltage so it does not dip below a safe lit, certainly now lower than 2.5 volt.




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## xzel87

Hi Neil, I own a C-9000 charger and was hoping for something similar with li-ion, really don't want to mess with cables and clips and whatnot if I can help it. Wife is already giving me the "look" when I bought the multimeter, but oh well, I convinced her it's useful not just for batteries.

Anyway, finally retested the V of some of the charged up salvaged cells, final pack (the one that was cool during charging) will be tested tomorrow but I quickly tested one cell and it only dropped by 0.01V, so looking good there. Can't say the same for the rest though.

1st pack
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ipkp0hnm4d5ta6q/Panasonic (DELL).jpg?dl=0

Seems like all are not good.


2nd pack
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1vnlnvxc5fy4dh7/Sanyo (Acer).jpg?dl=0

with the exception of 2 cells, the other 4 seem like goners to me.


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## NeilP

I see the cells are in blocks. Are they actually electrically connected ? or just packaged like that by yourself for convenience and insulated. Looks like I can see tape but just checking 

You would not need to have a messy wired filled table to use that meter. You could get constructive and build it in to a box with a single cell holder and a power resistor for the load.
(RWF) RW23-1.51.5 ohm5%68wWire Wound Resistor
https://www.surplussales.com/Resistors/WireWound/WW101-299.html


You could get fancy and add switchable resistors for varying loads.





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## xzel87

I packaged them that way, original battery case was totaled when I was prying it open. I then tape up both ends with electrical tape.

I did think of that, but unfortunately my skills with tools are rather horrible when it comes to building things from scratch thats why I'd rather stick to pre-made items/products.

On another note, I'm looking at a few hobby chargers now with discharge function, seems pretty well packaged, just not in the form and ease of use like the c9000 :shrug:


----------



## NeilP

The only sort I know of is the iCharger type, but that will require seperate power supply, wires, battery holders etc.


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## xzel87

yes, unfortunately that would mean additional clutter.The closest I could find to a c9000 for li-ion was a liitokala engineer.


----------



## NeilP

Sounds like what you really need is your own private space / or workshop !!


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## xzel87

I guess that's the root of my problems, I don't have a place of my own, can't afford one for the moment (and in the foreseeable future if property prices keep going up like crazy). Some resemblance of a private work space would be my office desk, but that's problematic in many ways in itself.

Anyway, going OT here. Back on track, basically, this tutorial and the advices given other members here were instrumental in helping me salvage my first set of laptop 18650 cells. Hopefully those remaining good cells can be put to good use and I'll report back on the condition of the last set of cells I'll be testing tomorrow.


----------



## Brunberg

Made a dissection for HP laptop battery today, it had six red sanyo cells inside. All off them were in ~4V range but they were two cells paraller so there could be few bad ones. I have edit this 4 photos later...


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## xzel87

Tested the third and final pack I opened up last week.

These are all keepers! :thumbsup:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3qmve5m6oaad5j/IMAG2811.jpg?dl=0


Will retest all 3 packs in a month for charge retention, or is there a shorter period I can test?


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## NeilP

A good real world test is just to stick them in a lamp with a driver that you know drops brightness automatically when voltage sags below a certain level.

I've got a cheap MYLED.COM zoomie that I have fitted with a 3 amp 105 driver and XML2-U2 . With a Fenix own brand 3.4 Ah protected cell it runs for ?? well not sure, given up timing after 10 minutes.

Most reclaimed cells drop out to the next power level , probably within 5-7 minutes max 

If you wanted to be accurate you could do a 'power level drop' test on each of the cells too.


I'd not thought of this before yesterday, I had been scratching my head wondering if the driver on my modded lamp had a turbo timer or similar. 
Then the words ' under load voltage sag' drifted through my head and made contact with the phrase' reclaimed scrap 18650's' and suddenly it became clear. 
Plugged the quality Fenix battery in the lamp, and suddenly no dropping to a lower power level.

If I get a chance, it is a rainy day and I am really bored, I may make a start on going through my scrap cells and checking their full power run times , though I suppose an internal resistance and discharge test on the iCharger would tell me much the same. High IR will lead to greater voltage sag under load.


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## xzel87

you might not believe this, but I don't have a 18650 light...yet...wf502b on the way and an olight s20-l2 gifted by thedoc007,which I think the post office sent wrongly to Lithuania, now in transit here though. I don't need an exact figure, just minimum estimated runtime under specific loads...since lower loads would bring about less voltage sag?, the runtime will be longer?, at least thats what I understand from HKJ battery graphs.

I'll check out the power level drop test you suggested, if I'm. not mistaken FT specs for the specific 502b I bought draws 2.5A at highest setting...will confirm with my DMM when I get it. The problem is, I don't have quality cells (for the moment) to compare with..bit I suppose it should at least give me some information.


----------



## NeilP

xzel87 said:


> ..since lower loads would bring about less voltage sag?, the runtime will be longer?, a
> 
> I'll check out the power level drop test you suggested, if I'm. not mistaken FT specs for the specific 502b I bought draws 2.5A at highest setting...will confirm with my DMM when I get it. The problem is, I don't have quality cells (for the moment) to compare with..bit I suppose it should at least give me some information.




Yes lower current flow gives less voltage drop. The battery has its own resistance, called IR , Internal Resistance. The greater the resistance, the greater the current, the greater the voltage drop. 
The battery may still run for a a good long time on a lower power level. 


As cells age their IR tends to increase..and different chemistries also have different IR figures, ..even same chemistry between two cells of different Ah ratings.


----------



## Brunberg

Brunberg said:


> Made a dissection for HP laptop battery today, it had six red sanyo cells inside. All off them were in ~4V range but they were two cells paraller so there could be few bad ones. I have edit this 4 photos later...



Second HP laptop battery had nine Samsung cells, all had 3,75V charge.


----------



## queer1

u238 said:


> I just pulled a bunch of these, but scuffed the wrapper of a few. The shrink wrap is incredibly thin and delicate. Can anyone think of a way to repair the wrapper?


 The ones i nicked were easily fixed with electrical tape. im using individual cells for some small led and motor projects. anyone have any ideas how i can charge these, individually is fine. i tossed all but one circuit but i have a bunch of other random parts i can solder together. im totally new to this kind of work, never played with electricity before but so far common sense has kept me from exploding the house or fusebox. 
Im on a very strict budget so if i cant salvage the parts theyll need to be uber cheap. and anyone willing to donate stuff would be awesome. its just a bunch of dinky projects. led light boxes, with and without audio pulsation, a home made tattoo gun for fun, etc and whatever other ideas inspire me. also taking suggestions. im a homemaker and have a lot of free time, so its become more an obsession than a hobby. i have torn apart things everywhere.


----------



## xzel87

Just an update in regards to my pulled cells, turns out the ones that showed good voltage retention in my previous post really are still very useful cells,all managed to power my Olight s20 l2 Baton on high for at least 2 or more hours before low voltage warning on the light kicked in,when measured voltage sagged till 3.4 ish and most bounced back to 3.6 after 15 minutes..All charged up nice and good too between 4.15 to 4.21 (lower termination voltage might be due to issues with one charger slot reporting done too quickly as reviewed by HKJ on the Xtar MC2)

BTW, clear cellophane works well as a shrink fix for batteries, and it's not as thick as electrical tape.


----------



## flatline

xzel87 said:


> Just an update in regards to my pulled cells, turns out the ones that showed good voltage retention in my previous post really are still very useful cells,all managed to power my Olight s20 l2 Baton on high for at least 2 or more hours before low voltage warning on the light kicked in,when measured voltage sagged till 3.4 ish and most bounced back to 3.6 after 15 minutes..All charged up nice and good too between 4.15 to 4.21 (lower termination voltage might be due to issues with one charger slot reporting done too quickly as reviewed by HKJ on the Xtar MC2)



Excellent news! Enjoy your recovered cells!

--flatline


----------



## xzel87

Thanks flatline, now I'm thinking of ways to use these free cells :laughing:


Btw, regarding the other cells that didn't make the cut, there are 4 cells of which their voltage settled at 3.86, 3.88, 3.97 and 4.00 after 3 weeks. These are Sanyo cells IINM. Can these still be used in a 1x18650 lantern?, I'm pretty sure they have capacity left, maybe not at 100% but would be still useful as an emergency source for lantern, which will be stored in the car trunk.

Might have to see about recharging them though since IIRC these do get warm while charging.


----------



## xzel87

Sorry for the double post, but I need some input on the behaviour of these pulled batteries of mine.

So to test actual runtime on the not so stellar cells of mine, placed it in flashlight and discharged to about 2.9 - 3.2V, rested for 30 minutes, bounced up to about 3.2 - 3.4V, stuck them in the charger and I noticed a few things different:

1. Cells that got really warm charging before this (1st charge after laptop pull) were charging completely COOL .

2. Full charge voltage seems to be higher compared to the first charge (after being pulled from laptop).

3. Retains voltage better, its been 3 hours and the voltage hasn't dropped. Before this the voltage dropped quite significantly even at only 1 hour after charging.

Question:

1. Did the full charge-discharge-full charge (1 cycle) helped revive these batteries?, if yes;

2. Would additional cycles help them further and are the improvements permanent?


Of course I will confirm myself whether these improvements are long term as I will be monitoring these for the foreseeable future. Although this is basic stuff for a lot of people for me this is very interesting and fun thing to do. :laughing:


----------



## Thenewguy222

Hello everyone 

Can anyone tell me a site who i can look at the sanyo color codings? Or have anyone a list?

Thanks


----------



## gallon

queer1 said:


> The ones i nicked were easily fixed with electrical tape. im using individual cells for some small led and motor projects. *anyone have any ideas how i can charge these, individually is fine.* i tossed all but one circuit but i have a bunch of other random parts i can solder together. im totally new to this kind of work, never played with electricity before but so far common sense has kept me from exploding the house or fusebox.
> *Im on a very strict budget* so if i cant salvage the parts theyll need to be uber cheap. and anyone willing to donate stuff would be awesome. its just a bunch of dinky projects. led light boxes, with and without audio pulsation, a home made tattoo gun for fun, etc and whatever other ideas inspire me. also taking suggestions. im a homemaker and have a lot of free time, so its become more an obsession than a hobby. i have torn apart things everywhere.



Welcome to the forum

You are looking for an economical, yet versatile charger. A well respected useful charger would be the Nitecore i4. It can handle your laptop pulls which are the 18650 size. It can also handle the AA and AAA NiMh and NiCd batteries, as well as other lithium ion chemistries and sizes. You can shop around and find this for between $15 and $20. 

If you feel you need an LCD display which tells you interesting things then look for the Nitecore D4. It will set you back a bit more. These Nitecore's are to be considered as good reliable basic chargers with some flexibility built in for different battery types. The Nitecore is a very good value. Once you have grown comfortable with yours, you can begin to explore the possibilities for a fancier charger with analyzing features.

Good luck. Tell us what you decide.


----------



## xzel87

Hey guys, opened another HP 6 cell battery, had 4 good cells put of 6, LG cells coded Lges318650. Unfortunately I threw away the packing before taking note of the Whr rating. Did a search and it seems to be 2600mah, can someone confirm?, it is colored a dark purple.

Good cells checked out at 3.94V...bad ones 1.21


----------



## RickH

NeilP said:


> Sorry about the poor quality of the video, but you will get the idea of the abuse they can take before they blow. They are nasty things when they blow, but it is actually surprisingly difficult to get that to happen
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FRjFxKoUYQ



I've been avidly reading some threads here over the last few days, since I've also recently become a member of the 18650 Salvage Club, but I had to register just so I could tell you that this is the most satisfying video I've seen in quite a while.  Even more than the hammer, I particularly liked the super-scientific "poke it with a stick" method of testing. Big, big fan of that.

Thanks for all the great info everyone's shared in this thread. You probably won't hear from me much, but I will surely be over here in the corner paying close attention.


----------



## CuriousOne

I have tested cells from various laptop batteries and noted that Sony GR series cells are much more resistant to low voltages - I have a bunch of SF US18650GRs, and they were accidentally discharged to 2V and kept in such condition for couple of months - they were able to recover without any noticeable problems. Contrary to them, Sanyo cells under similar condition, lost most of their capacity and became unusable.


----------



## xzel87

So I've been feeling confident lately in regards to my handling of 18650 laptop pull cells. All the cells I've pulled and recovered so far are working very well for their applications 

So started to fulfill my curiosities in recovering less than 2.5V cells. My colleague gave me a 2006 laptop pack 2 days ago, took me an hour opening it, it was the toughest battery pack I had to open and I had to literally rip it apart (not the seams, had to rip the plastic casing) to get to the batteries, which turned out to be green bluish Samsung 18650-22B cells.

They all tested 0.01V :shakehead, I proceeded to place them in the bin.

The day after that, I happened to read the thread "how not to repair li-ion cells" where the guy uses a knife and cuts himself :green:. His batteries measured 0 volt and he jump started them with a 12v car battery, which was stupid and there were even sparks.

Unfortunately that made me curious, and the fact that my MC2 has this so called 0V activation so.... what the heck I decided to try it , took out the batteries from the bin and charged one of it...with the usb volt/amp detector I can see that the charger started to charge the battery with 60mah...after about 1 minute of that I took it off the charger and measured voltage was at 1.76, however the voltage was falling by 0.01 every few seconds or so. Popped it back in the charger and now I think it's been an hour plus, and the meter shows that it is being charged at 0.5A, it doesn't feel warm at all. I just checked the voltage a minute ago and it was up to 3.89V 

Any input guys?


----------



## CuriousOne

Allow charge to finish, remove from charger, record the voltage. Put it aside, check voltage in 24 hours. If it dropped less than 10mv (0.01v) than batteries are fine.

I had no personal experience in recovering Samsung SDI cells that went below 2V, but I have large experience of such activity with Sanyo and Sony cells. Sanyos usually are dead after - even if recovered, self discharge is high, and capacity is much lower than it was before. Contrary, Sony cells are just fine and show no problems after recovery.


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Xzel87,

The reason we don't recommend trying to recover cells with low voltage has to do with safety. The potential for having damage occur inside the cell increases the longer it is at a low voltage. This is a chemistry reaction issue.

It is always fun to experiment but make sure you assess the dangers involved and take precautions to protect against them.

Tom


----------



## zipplet

Hi Xzel87!

Please do take the advice given by SilverFox. I linked to the video because of how shocking it was and I simply could not believe what the guy was doing. Some kind people have replied to his video and told him he shouldn't be doing that. Look at some of the disaster threads in the "Close calls" sub forum. There are legitimate dangers involved when doing this kind of thing. I'd say it's OK to mess around with reviving cells if they are NiMH or lead-acid, but I would leave lithium cells alone.

Kind regards,
Michael


----------



## xzel87

Appreciate the warning guys. But rest assured that I know of the risks involved in charging those cells that's why I have it charging in a metal container on tile floors with my multimeter (has additional function as a temperature probe) hooked up to it to monitor temperature. So far so good. Have one set charged up and left sitting to check voltage retention after a week. Probably junk cells but just for curiosity's sake I want to know.


----------



## audio8

Hi guys, relative newbie here, hope I'm posting in the right thread (this is the closest topic to my question).

I recently purchased a bunch (6 to be exact) unused Li-Ion battery packs made for some high-end ($5k+) professional portable test equipment. I bought them for the 18650's they are made of - it was a great deal as I got 6 4S3P packs (=72 pieces of Panasonic CGR18650CG's) for $30 on the 'bay. Before starting to extract the individual 18650's I decided what the heck, let's see how good the packs are as they are. It turned out that they have very high quality (based on TI chips) battery management PCBs with balancers, a multitude of protections and two thermal sensors per pack. They are very well built. So I decided to keep some of them in their original setup, as 14.8V 4S3P packs.

Since they were all shut off by the protection circuits when I received them (they were brand new but sat in storage for about 2 years), I checked the voltages directly at the battery terminals, bypassing the protection circuits, and they all measured 8-9V (2.0-2.25V per battery), so I knew they should be salvageable. I successfully "revived" and charged the packs with a 4S charger, and they all charge and work fine.

The only thing I wasn't able to figure out is the connections on the pack - the manufacturer purpose-built these packs for their equipment and doesn't publish any specs on the battery packs. I tried google to find a comparable battery management board, to no avail.

The battery management boards are branded "Galaxy" and there is a model number (I guess) "4L" on them. it is built around the TI BQ29330 and 20Z70 chips. My confusion is about the external connections. The pack has a connector with 4 wires: the usual P+ and P- are red and black. But there is also a green wire marked "D" on the PCB and a white one marked "C". From what I learned from googling this is that "C" may be a separate charging connection, I haven't found anything about "D".

I charged the packs using the P+ and P- connections, and this worked fine.

What is confusing for me is that when the packs are fully charged, I get 11.8V between P+ and "C" and also between P+ and "D" (it is the expected 16.6 - 16.8 between P+ and P-).

So here is what I don't know:

1. Is "C" a charging connection? If so, why do I get a voltage reading (at all) on it, and why about 5 V lower than the P+/P- terminals?
2. If "C" is indeed a charging connection, can I cause any damage by charging the pack through the P+ / P- connections, as it is implemented on other battery management PCBs?
3. What is the "D" connection?

Any input would be appreciated - thanks!


----------



## CuriousOne

"C" stands for "center" - equipment needs them for some purposes. 
"D" usually stands for "data" - battery gives device info about it's serial, capacity, etc.

These batteries come from Broadcast grade cameras, aren't they?


----------



## audio8

CuriousOne said:


> "C" stands for "center" - equipment needs them for some purposes.
> "D" usually stands for "data" - battery gives device info about it's serial, capacity, etc.
> 
> These batteries come from Broadcast grade cameras, aren't they?



Thanks CuriousOne - the packs are made for Sunrise Telecom STT-1505A ("Scaleable Test Tookit" - basically a rugged "suitcase" computer with a bunch of different test modules for networks, etc.). http://www.itm-group.com/datenblaetter/Sunrise/stt.pdf

Do you mean that "Center" would be a lower voltage connection tapped from the "middle" between series packs?

If the "D" connection is for data, why does it have 11+ Volts on it? I would expect data connections to have 0 volts until there is some communication, at which point the logical state change would cause it to oscillate between low (0V) and high (5V) doesn't it? Or, am I missing something?

Thanks!


----------



## CuriousOne

My info is based on personal experience of importing video camera chargers and batteries from China. Some came with older firmware, so it was necessary to update firmware, otherwise newer cameras would say that battery is not genuine.

In your case, if you post photos of PCB, a lot of questions will be answered imediately and with better precision.


----------



## audio8

CuriousOne said:


> My info is based on personal experience of importing video camera chargers and batteries from China. Some came with older firmware, so it was necessary to update firmware, otherwise newer cameras would say that battery is not genuine.
> 
> In your case, if you post photos of PCB, a lot of questions will be answered imediately and with better precision.



Thanks - good point. Here are some photos:

The battery pack:





Here's what's inside:




A close up of the PCB:


----------



## ginbot86

The C and D pins are used to communicate with the bq20z70 fuel gauge on the PCB, and both of them should be near zero volts with respect to P-.

The chipset on the PCB makes this battery pack a "smart battery" - one that has built-in intelligence to keep tabs on the battery's capacity, voltage, temperature, etc. There is this program called PackProbe that lets an Arduino microcontroller read out the information from smart batteries (mostly laptop batteries but any Smart Battery System (SBS) compliant battery can be read out). (link here: http://powercartel.com/projects/packprobe/ )

P+ and P- are the normal connections that you'll use to the battery pack.


----------



## audio8

ginbot86 said:


> The C and D pins are used to communicate with the bq20z70 fuel gauge on the PCB, and both of them should be near zero volts with respect to P-.
> 
> The chipset on the PCB makes this battery pack a "smart battery" - one that has built-in intelligence to keep tabs on the battery's capacity, voltage, temperature, etc. There is this program called PackProbe that lets an Arduino microcontroller read out the information from smart batteries (mostly laptop batteries but any Smart Battery System (SBS) compliant battery can be read out). (link here: http://powercartel.com/projects/packprobe/ )
> 
> P+ and P- are the normal connections that you'll use to the battery pack.



Thanks a lot - great info. Yes, the C and D connections read 0 if I measure against P-. The arduino software looks great - unfortunately, while I'm using raspberry pi's for a project, i don't have any arduinos around... But since that's optional, I'm fine with this info for now and may try the arduino software later.

Just to confirm: so both charging and discharging the battery would be trough the P+ / P- connections - did I get that right?

And one last question: is it okay to charge and use (to power connected equipment) a smart battery pack like this at the same time? I.e. if I am using the pack to power a gadget and the battery gets low, can I just connect a Li-Ion charger and keep using the equipment powered by the battery with the charger connected?


----------



## ginbot86

audio8 said:


> Thanks a lot - great info. Yes, the C and D connections read 0 if I measure against P-. The arduino software looks great - unfortunately, while I'm using raspberry pi's for a project, i don't have any arduinos around... But since that's optional, I'm fine with this info for now and may try the arduino software later.
> 
> Just to confirm: so both charging and discharging the battery would be trough the P+ / P- connections - did I get that right?
> 
> And one last question: is it okay to charge and use (to power connected equipment) a smart battery pack like this at the same time? I.e. if I am using the pack to power a gadget and the battery gets low, can I just connect a Li-Ion charger and keep using the equipment powered by the battery with the charger connected?



Yes, charging and discharging is done through the P+/P- connections.

As for simultaneous charge and discharge, it is fine to an extent. Any current drawn from the battery while charging can affect the charge time and, if the charger has a timer, could cause charging to terminate before the battery is full.


----------



## audio8

ginbot86 said:


> Yes, charging and discharging is done through the P+/P- connections.
> 
> As for simultaneous charge and discharge, it is fine to an extent. Any current drawn from the battery while charging can affect the charge time and, if the charger has a timer, could cause charging to terminate before the battery is full.



Great, thanks a lot for the info!


----------



## RolandK

hi, 

i`m doing battery extraction from dead laptop packs for a while now and i wrote down the data for every cell.

from that i have made some statistics to show the typical condition of such cells. apparently, more than half of all cells are in pretty good shape and have more than 80% of their original capacity. 

the cells were measured with Opus BT-3100 V2.1 charger.
all battery packs were "ready for trash", i.e. they had been sorted out to be put into the recycling box.

does anybody know if there are other statistics like these around?

regards
roland


----------



## CuriousOne

It had been confirmed (by several servicemans) that for example, Samsung made battery packs for laptops, will cut off output after 300 cycles of charge-discharge, no matter how bad or good cells really are. Actually, serviceman reset the counter in these batteries to prolong their life.


----------



## RolandK

CuriousOne said:


> Actually, serviceman reset the counter in these batteries to prolong their life.



there is a professional tool for this at http://be2works.com/


----------



## varons666

Hi Guys, 

Hoping your'll can help me out as i cant understand this....
so ima NOOB, i have opened a samsung laptop battery and extracted 6 (Red, looks like sanyo) cells, when extracted test voltage on pack was 10.8v (battery says 11.1v) and tested mah was +-17500 (17.5ah), so from that these cells should be around 3.7v 3000mah each, cells where connected in series and parallel and this is the part that gets me, pack it wired, (3 x 2 cells in parallel, and those 3 sets are connected in series) which is fine to get the voltage but how does the mah add up? it should be 10.8v at 6000mah so how is the mah increasing in series? 

then 2nd prob, i disconnected the series connections so now i have 3 sets of 2 cells in parallel, 1 set measures 3.65v at +-6000mah but when i connect another set to it (4 cells in parallel) the mah should be 12000mah but its not, mah only increases by 200mah and i have tested all 3 set individually and they test fine with just 2 cell in parallel.

please help if you can


----------



## xzel87

test individual batteries, what you're doing you're not getting accurate voltage reading and mah reading.


----------



## varons666

xzel87 said:


> test individual batteries, what you're doing you're not getting accurate voltage reading and mah reading.


Ok so i took your advise and disconnected the 2 cells, 1 cell measures 3.6v at 6600mah, in parallel the mah is not doubling but i connected the silent cells in series and i get 7v at 12000mah


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Varons666,

Welcome to CPF.

Let's back up and take another look at this.

If you have a cell with voltage V and capacity X and connect it in series with another similar cell, you end up with 2V and 1X capacity.
If you have a cell with voltage V and capacity X and connect in in parallel with another similar cell, you end up with 1V and 2X capacity.

When you connect cells in series, voltage increases but capacity stays the same.
When you connect cells in parallel, capacity increases but voltage stays the same.

Tom


----------



## NeilP

Out of interest how are you testing the mAh capacity ? what sort of tester? and discharge current?


----------



## iteoschi

Great guide! Is there a particular model of laptop that has this kind of batteries in its battery back?


----------



## varons666

SilverFox said:


> Hello Varons666,
> 
> Welcome to CPF.
> 
> Let's back up and take another look at this.
> 
> If you have a cell with voltage V and capacity X and connect it in series with another similar cell, you end up with 2V and 1X capacity.
> If you have a cell with voltage V and capacity X and connect in in parallel with another similar cell, you end up with 1V and 2X capacity.
> 
> When you connect cells in series, voltage increases but capacity stays the same.
> When you connect cells in parallel, capacity increases but voltage stays the same.
> 
> Tom



Hi SilverFox,

Yes i understand how the parallel and series connection works but thats why im having a problem understanding because with 
2 single cells in parallel im getting 1V and 1X and
2 single cells in series im getting 2V and 2X.


----------



## varons666

NeilP said:


> Out of interest how are you testing the mAh capacity ? what sort of tester? and discharge current?


Please see attached pic off multimeter , mine is more or less the same.


----------



## zipplet

How are you using this multimeter to test capacity?
Used alone, it cannot measure capacity - only voltage.

I read long ago that someone thought that using the current setting (amps scale) showed the "mAh" rating. Never, ever do this. If you are doing that all you are doing is shorting out the battery and measuring the "flash amps" - the current it will dump into a short circuit!


----------



## varons666

zipplet said:


> How are you using this multimeter to test capacity?
> Used alone, it cannot measure capacity - only voltage.
> 
> I read long ago that someone thought that using the current setting (amps scale) showed the "mAh" rating. Never, ever do this. If you are doing that all you are doing is shorting out the battery and measuring the "flash amps" - the current it will dump into a short circuit!



ok thanks for the info, i used the same meter for every other batteries ranging from cellphone to gate motor batteries to AA and all tested fine.
if one single cell tested gives me +-6 "flash amps" , why when i connect 2 cells in parallel reading doesn't double, correct me if im wrong but the reading should double whether its correct or not and how does it double in series?


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Varons666,

I would guess that there is a limit built into your meter to keep it from destroying itself, or the cells may be unable to perform due to age or previous use.

To properly measure capacity you need to load the cell with a known load (say 500 mA) and time how long it takes to get to the low voltage shut off (say 2.8 volts). This gives you load and time and you end up with mAh or Ah.

Li-Ion cells are capable of very high flash current impulses. Going from memory something like 6 - 8C. That means a healthy 2400 mAh cell could possibly deliver 19200 mA under a flash condition.

Tom


----------



## varons666

SilverFox said:


> Hello Varons666,
> 
> I would guess that there is a limit built into your meter to keep it from destroying itself, or the cells may be unable to perform due to age or previous use.
> 
> To properly measure capacity you need to load the cell with a known load (say 500 mA) and time how long it takes to get to the low voltage shut off (say 2.8 volts). This gives you load and time and you end up with mAh or Ah.
> 
> Li-Ion cells are capable of very high flash current impulses. Going from memory something like 6 - 8C. That means a healthy 2400 mAh cell could possibly deliver 19200 mA under a flash condition.
> 
> Tom



i dont think its a builtin limit on the meter because in series i get the full reading.

ok so i charged up a single battery upto 4.20v and i put 200mA load for 1 hour and the voltage dropped to 3.94v, how would i calculate the mAh? (lol only tested for 1 hour since thats how long our load shedding lasted)


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Varons666,

200 mA for 1 hour gives you 200 mAh. From here we have to speculate. IF your voltage rebounded, after taking the load off, to around 4.0 volts, we can speculate that you have about 80% of your total capacity left in the cell. If we take 200 and divide it by the speculated 20% used we end up with a speculated capacity of 1000 mAh for the cell.

All this speculation is not very accurate but now you can run your test again and plan for having the load connected for 5 hours, or more.

Speculation can be avoided by leaving the load connected until the voltage drops to something like 2.8 volts while keeping track of the time. Then you will have the actual capacity.

Tom


----------



## ID01

First time poster long time lurker yadayada, did my first reclaim battery task on a Dell 9 cell 87 WH 11.1V laptop battery and produced about 9 of these LGABD11865 batteries.

The only source that appears some what accurate is here: http://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...305570.html?spm=a2700.7724838.35.1.LwrwY9&s=p

Any suggestion on what to do with these? 

What I was planning on doing was to use 6 of these in one of these:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Univ...ower-Bank-Battery-Charger-Box/1938749138.html

to power a surface pro 3. 

Overall, opening the packaging was a bit of a hassle but nothing all that tricky, I ordered a cheapo multi-meter a few posts ahead of this one but it has not arrived yet. All the test I did was to put it into a CREE portable 18650 LED flash light, and all of them light up brilliantly.

Are there any safety concern with this specific battery for my specific use? Any trick that I should use for real testing before charging them at all? Should I buy a different charger for those? 

Thanks


----------



## USSR

if the description on alibaba is correct then these are 4.35v cells . and most of these battery banks chare till 4.2 (and in my experiment i lost 200mah if a 4.3 volts battery was charged to 4.2 ).. 

also this case is extremely costly .. i have ordered below one and waiting or shipment to arrive .. will take couple of weeks. 5x with lcd models are available at 7 USD max with free shiping that could take at least 2-3 weeks to arrive. 


http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6763920470.html?orderId=68039039964750 


use multimeter . any cell having voltage above 2.9-3 volts is a nice candidate . charge it and discharge it to 3 volts and monitor it for heat .. if it passes this test and gives sufficient run time then its ok .. 
any cell with voltgae below 2 .. i would throw it .. though it could be resurected .. 



ID01 said:


> First time poster long time lurker yadayada, did my first reclaim battery task on a Dell 9 cell 87 WH 11.1V laptop battery and produced about 9 of these LGABD11865 batteries.
> 
> The only source that appears some what accurate is here: http://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...305570.html?spm=a2700.7724838.35.1.LwrwY9&s=p
> 
> Any suggestion on what to do with these?
> 
> What I was planning on doing was to use 6 of these in one of these:
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Univ...ower-Bank-Battery-Charger-Box/1938749138.html
> 
> to power a surface pro 3.
> 
> Overall, opening the packaging was a bit of a hassle but nothing all that tricky, I ordered a cheapo multi-meter a few posts ahead of this one but it has not arrived yet. All the test I did was to put it into a CREE portable 18650 LED flash light, and all of them light up brilliantly.
> 
> Are there any safety concern with this specific battery for my specific use? Any trick that I should use for real testing before charging them at all? Should I buy a different charger for those?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## ID01

The reason I ordered this specific one is for the 12V output to support notebook recharging on the go. Which is something I would like to experiment on. Even if it end up not working out it would still work as a fast 5V charger considering the Ampage it is able to put out according to this review here:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review USB battery box 6x18650 Qidian UK.html

I will probably wait for the DMM to come before trying to charge it or play with it in anyways in that case.


----------



## markr6

Check these out! Old Sanyo UR18650Y 2000mAh pulled from my Sony Viao manufactured ~2008. Laptop was used pretty hard but also sat around a lot without use.

I finally got to test them with my Opus C3100 v2.2 charger. These are the results after a charge/discharge.

Still about 85% capacity which is what I would expect after the use and 7+ years. But not something I really have a need for. Internal resistance ranged from 105 to 125.


----------



## WarRaven

Nice MarkR6.

I pulled some ancient UR18650V AN US18650GR yesterday myself.
These are old, 2007 an 2005.

I have to lsd check, dum charger.


----------



## xzel87

Nice pulls mark, I have similar cells I pulled before but unfortunately they were pretty useless in terms of capacity. The okay ones became increasingly warmer the more I charged them so finally disposed of them. If you read my previous posts, of all the recovered battery I've disposed all except for 6 cells (from the same pack, green coloured Sony cells) due to safety concerns. For those 6 Sony cells, 4 is used to power my 1x18650 light I use as a nightlight so normally cycle between all 4 in 2 weeks or so running continuously and the remaining 2 is for my headlamp (for night reading).


----------



## xzel87

Double posted.


----------



## etc

markr6 said:


> Check these out! Old Sanyo UR18650Y 2000mAh pulled from my Sony Viao manufactured ~2008. Laptop was used pretty hard but also sat around a lot without use.
> 
> I finally got to test them with my Opus C3100 v2.2 charger. These are the results after a charge/discharge.
> 
> Still about 85% capacity which is what I would expect after the use and 7+ years. But not something I really have a need for. Internal resistance ranged from 105 to 125.




That's a nice charger, and not that expensive.


----------



## markr6

etc said:


> That's a nice charger, and not that expensive.



I'm impressed. Even though I got it for about $32, I would have no problem paying up to $50 or so. I haven't touched my other chargers since I got it (at least for Li-Ion)


----------



## xzel87

Thats my go to charger now as well...even for nimh...feel bad not using my c9000 for nimh hahaha


----------



## ID01

markr6 said:


> I'm impressed. Even though I got it for about $32, I would have no problem paying up to $50 or so. I haven't touched my other chargers since I got it (at least for Li-Ion)


May I ask where you got it for $32? _Opus C3100 v2.2 ? _


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## markr6

ID01 said:


> May I ask where you got it for $32? _Opus C3100 v2.2 ? _



Gearbest, about a month ago. It may have went up a bit, but I think it's still around $35-40. Good value! I'd gladly pay $50 for this charger.


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## wrcsixeight

Hello. A few pages back, back in December '14, I replaced my 9 cell laptop battery with another sub 25$ one from Amazon, and harvested the cells. One was bad, the rest have been put into use in flashlights and a portable USB power supply. Their remaining capacity was not impressive compared to Ncr18650b's.

The replacement battery pack just got weak enough that I ordered the same battery pack as it was good a good enough value for the amount of cycles i got from it.

So another Cell harvesting. At this point I've only opened the casing. I was hoping to identify the cell manufacturer and original capacity, but no luck on google.

GOB18650-14FO4-20c-3. 7v are the only markings. They are a light turquoise color. I don't have my Nippers handy to separate the cells, nor my voltmeter to check, but will report back.

Anybody know anything about who made the cells, or its original capacity, or is it just China's cheapest and not worthy of discovery?


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## wrcsixeight

The laptop battery I just harvested, refused to charge above 92%, It would just say '92%, not charging' and stay there no matter how long I was plugged in. Battery life had dropped to about 45 minutes from that point

I was plugged in reading 92%, when I turned laptop off, removed and replaced battery with newest arrival from same vendor, made sure it worked properly, and then cracked open the 92% one.
6 cells measured 4.23 volts
3 cells measured 3.986 volts

I subjected each cell to a one minute test on my Nitecore HC50 on the brightest setting. Was not able to measure voltage during test but measured it quickly after.

In the time it took to remove and test the battery, the voltage had rebounded to 0.1 of where it started and then to within 0.02 a few minutes later.

Not much of a load test, but no battery visibly caused the brightness to fade during that minute. The 3 lower voltage cells had their voltage rebound quickly as I measured, the other 6 to a much lesser degree.

I unwrapped each one, soldered a button onto each one, and rewrapped them all. i bought something like 5 meters of shrink wrap just for one orbitronics cell whose wrapper was torn.

I'm charging the 3 lower voltage cells now. 

My previous cell extractions can not fully charge my Samsung s4 mini phone, but the panny ncr3400 Mah cells could do that almost twice.

I am not sure whether the BMS in the battery pack decided to take the 3 cells out of rotation or what, but it did seem like capacity dropped by 1/3 practically overnight. My one minute load test revealed next to nothing, so I will have to see how batteries 4,5 and 6 behave from this point.

My previous harvest had one cell whose voltage dropped from 4.2 to 3.9 overnight, the rest of them held 4.2 for days.

Have more 18650 cells than I can realistically use at this point.


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## SilverFox

Hello Wrcsixeight,

When a Li-Ion chemistry cell comes off the charger below 4.0 volts, or drops below 4.0 volts 24 hours after charging, the internal chemistry has been used up to the point were the cell has lost around 20% of its initial capacity. At this point the change in internal chemistry properties make it less safe to use and it should be recycled.

If you continue to "play" with the low voltage cells, use caution and watch closely.

Tom


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## wrcsixeight

Thanks Silverfox.

My plan was to remove any cells which could not maintain voltage after fully charging to 4.2v. Only one cell in my previous harvest failed this test.

The recent harvest, occurred when the laptop itself has charged the battery as much as it could, to 92%. 3 of the cells were the same at 3.986 volts. the other 6 just over 4.2v.

These 3.986v'ers were all charged to 4.2v by my nitecore i4v2 and monitored for excessive heat during, and now will be monitored over the next few days for dropping voltage to see if any need to be recycled.

My imprecise load test revealed no weaknesses on the 3 lower voltage cells. I was kind of thinking the BMS in the cheapo battery pack was at fault rather than a faulty cell, as on my previous extraction, one cell was obviously the culprit, and the other 8 still in use but with not so impressive capacity.


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## wrcsixeight

I have a single cell 18650 USB power supply, and last night used it through a KCX-017 USB power meter to recharge my capacity compromised Samsung S4 mini battery that was in the 20% range.

At 775 mAH, the USB power supply quit with one of my harvested cells in it, one which read 4.23v upon extraction.

I am charging that same cell now with power meter on it, and it has now accepted 1670mAH and is still accepting 0.15amps at 5.18v.

This is the only method I have to measure any cell capacity, and it seems quite inaccurate, or my single cell USB power supply is only ~50% efficient. Sure it is warm, but not that warm.

I expect these harvested cells were 1800mah originally and should at least be able to get my phone to 100% from 20% once, but it came nowhere near that.

My Panny cells can do the job and some more though this same USB source.

Looks like i'd have to carry 2 or 3 of these harvested cells to do the same job as one 3400mAH Panny.

Perhaps I wasted my time and shrink wrap and solder on them if all perform as badly in my usages.


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## Phlogiston

Bear in mind that the mAh reading on a USB power meter is measured at 5V, whereas the cell's rated capacity in mAh is measured at 3.7V. To make proper comparisons, you need to multiply mAh by measurement voltage to get mWh. 1 mAh at 5V is 5mWh, whereas 1 mAh at 3.7V is only 3.7 mWh. That's roughly a 25% difference in energy when going from 5V to 3.7V, or 33% going the other way. 

Your USB power bank has to convert voltage upwards (boost) or downwards (buck) when producing or accepting energy, respectively, so it will be subject to this effect. 

Every USB power bank I've ever seen gives its mAh capacity rating at cell voltage, i.e. 3.7V. 

My rule of thumb for charging a USB power bank is that it will take the same number of mAh at 5V as its cells are rated for at 3.7V. The remaining energy is lost to inefficiencies in the power bank's circuitry and the Li-Ion charging process. 

My rule of thumb for using a USB power bank to charge another device is that it will only produce about two thirds of the mAh at 5V that its cells are rated for at 3.7V. In other words, a 12000 mAh power bank will only put about 8000 mAh into your device. The difference is mostly accounted for by voltage boost from 3.7V to 5V, with some additional energy being lost to inefficiencies in the power bank's circuitry. 

Using those rules of thumb, the 775 mAh your power bank produced at 5V implies that the cell had about 1150 - 1200 mAh at 3.7V in it, assuming that you have a reasonably efficient power bank. 

At reasonable efficencies, I'd predict that the 1670 mAh that you've put into your power bank would allow it to charge another device by about 1100 mAh. I'd be interested to know how well it actually does - and what model of power bank it is - should you have the time to check.


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## CatcherInTheRye

u238 said:


> I just pulled a bunch of these, but scuffed the wrapper of a few. The shrink wrap is incredibly thin and delicate. Can anyone think of a way to repair the wrapper?


 Hey guys I've read a few replies to this but my current electrical tape is too thick. Is this dangerous to have parts of the wrapper shrink wrap be peels or damaged (it's on the size, none are on the ends). What is the proper way to dispose of these? Thanks


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## dlb92

I have a Dell 14.8V 6450mAH type G1947 battery with a capacity of 95WH and it was made sometime in 2002 and no longer functions as a laptop battery.

Does this contain 18650's and is it worth opening?

Anyone have any tips?

Thank you.


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## sween1911

Took apart an old laptop battery pack last night and got 6 nice 18650's. Thanks for putting this up!


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## zorobabel

I took apart an older Dell battery pack and got 6 red batteries coded IL4FK6. I can't find anything on this code. Is silicone RTV ok for insulating the nicks on the wrapping?


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## apashi

*Re: Recovering batteries from notebook battery pack*



bshanahan14rulz said:


> Hi ltcdata,
> 
> You have extracted sanyo ur18650a, it appears. There is some debate as to whether these are 2250mAh (4.2V) cells or 2800mAh (4.35V) cells, though apparently the 2800mAh ones should have an orange wrapper?
> 
> quoted from various internet sources. Older sanyos were that reddish pink color that the cells you extracted are.
> 
> 
> 
> ^from that:
> Note:
> 1. Stamp lot number on the tube
> xyyz
> x - year (`96=A, `97=B, ..., `10=O, `11=P, ...)
> yy - week (01, 02, ..., 48, 49, ... 53)
> z - Changed Career (A, B, C, ....., Z)
> 2. Stamp 'SANYO' & 'R1112' of cell model on the tube
> 
> Doesn't seem to be 100%, don't know how to use that to decode your lot no.s.
> 
> 
> 
> Some more tips to help you identify: convert the battery pack's Wh rating to Amp Hours by dividing the Wh rating by the nominal voltage listed on the pack. Now, you have the entire pack's Ah rating @ the pack's nominal voltage.
> 
> Laptop battery packs are generally two parallel strings to double the capacity, so you can divide the pack's Ah rating to get a string's Ah rating @ that series string's nominal voltage (which would be the same as the pack's nominal voltage)
> 
> Three cells in series is generally the perfect voltage for laptops, this is where they get the nominal voltage. So, you can divide the nominal voltage of the pack by 3 to get an individual cell's nominal voltage.
> 
> You now should have the info you need: a single cell's nominal voltage, and it's Ah rating.



Hello,
Can you help my find the model and specs for this batteries from old laptops?
One is *Red Sanyo with green ring* and the other is *Sony US17670GR*.
Thanks!


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