# Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning



## Ginseng (Dec 28, 2003)

I am working on a handheld spotlight project and will periodically update progress in this thread. The specs at this point are still in development but I feel confident in saying that when the basic design issues are solved and the prototype is completed, it will be the brightest light of its kind by at least a factor of 3 and as much as 8. 

*December 28, 2003:* Initial prototype design completed. Primary components, alpha stage, machined and prepped for fitting. Light engines selected. Power components selected. Surreal teaser photo:





Wilkey


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## PaulW (Dec 28, 2003)

That looks nasty. Is it the result of a proof of concept experiment -- one where the bulb melted?


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## ResQTech (Dec 28, 2003)

Hmmm... The bulb seems to say "Osram HL Xen****". Can't make out the rest.


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## LukeK (Dec 29, 2003)

This should be pretty great Ginseng. You're doing a mod much like the one that I've wanted to do for a while, yet didn't have the money for. Mine includes a slightly bigger host though. Good luck! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Ginseng (Dec 29, 2003)

This project is going to extend out at least a month. There are some technolgies I'm applying that to my knowledge have not been used in the construction of a handheld torch. Needless to say, there are bound to be bumps in the road.

The most significant danger I'm anticipating is detonation of the light engine. I've seen the damage even a small T2.25 G4 bulb can inflict when pushed beyond reason. A T4 G6.35 bulb could become a little grenade if sufficiently "annoyed".

Wilkey


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## LukeK (Dec 30, 2003)

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
A T4 G6.35 bulb could become a little grenade if sufficiently "annoyed". 

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Holy crap. The aluminum body would protect you from harm wouldn't it?


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## Nerd (Dec 30, 2003)

Holy Crap... Why do I have a feeling Wilkey is going to push his newly purchased KAN 4/5A batteries to the limits with 30 amps of current draw..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

30 amps times 6 volts under load = 180 watts. Hmm... how about a T4 G9 bulb? Run time in terms of less than 10 mins sounds like absolute fun /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Ginseng (Dec 30, 2003)

The torch body would be protective to those behind the bezel. But the front...I don't know of any way to make that safe. Polycarbonate would melt and I don't know if I can get 3/16" tempered glass in that size. Maybe 1/4".

If I could find a 6V 30A bulb, I'd try it. The hottest 6V bulbs I've found are the 6V 55W H3 and H1 automotive bulbs. These are basically G6.35 bulbs in a metal carrier frame. I think it's possible to remove them from the frame but the pin-glass interface is notoriously weak and subject to breakage. 

The challenge is maximizing the output at lower voltages. I can make 20,000 lumens...but I'd need 36V worth of batts to do it. Makes for a rather larger light. 

Wilkey


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## Ginseng (Dec 30, 2003)

*Project: Aurora*

*December 30, 2003:* Light engine cartridge test fit. Successful. Surreal teaser photo #2.




Wilkey


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## PaulW (Dec 30, 2003)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Let's see. 250v times 12A equals . . . how many watts? Holy smoke, Batman. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Paul


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## cheesehead (Dec 31, 2003)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

That's just crazy talk, it can't be done. On the other hand, I check this post every day.


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## Nerd (Dec 31, 2003)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Uh... 3K watts? You're a bulb holder for 3K watts of heat? Cool! I mean.. that's HOT! I mean... how are you going to focus the beam? With a filament that can take 3K watts, it would be at least 5mm long with 2 mm thick diameter...

Wilkey, try not to get singed? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif We'll be waiting with anticipation. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Ginseng (Dec 31, 2003)

*Project: Aurora*

*December 31, 2003:* Light engine cartridge installed in test mule. 1/40th power shakedown test. Successful. Lunch expected in 35 minutes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Unreal teaser photo #9


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## cheesehead (Dec 31, 2003)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Very tastefully done.

With 3kW, it'll squash all other lights.


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## drumgod (Dec 31, 2003)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

SWEET! It's a lumi-legume! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Ginseng (Dec 31, 2003)

*Project: Aurora*

Ok,
The last photo was a fake. It was a picture of the squash-based torch I built earlier this year. Here is the real stuff.
Surreal teaser photo #3. Not your granny's Energizers. At 30 amps, 575 watts of chemical-electrical power.





Surreal teaser photo #4. Part of the charging system. Industrial grade, regulated power supply. 13 amp continuous output.




Wilkey


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## Nerd (Dec 31, 2003)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

16 cells? Hmm 30 amps? Hmm.... 575 watts? HMM....


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## Sway (Dec 31, 2003)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

I was looking forward to some baked squash Yum! Yum! I guess this will have to do for now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

Thats a mean looking bunch of cells you have there Wilkey and I see the little one has taken to lights in big way and must be the brains and driving force behind Project Aurora /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later
Sway


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## Nerd (Jan 1, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

BTW those are flat top cells. How are you going to connect them together? Wire braids? Or just literally soldering them to each other? Are those the KAN 4/5 A cells you ordered earlier? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Ginseng (Jan 1, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Those are KAN 4/5As. They will be soldered end-to-end into sticks of 4 and joined at the ends with copper bus bars. Sticks of 5 for the _medium_ model.



Coming up next, a first look down the throat of the beast. Sleeping...


Wilkey


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## Nerd (Jan 1, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Oh boy! There's going to be different sized models! Small, Medium and Big? 

I figure that the BIG model would have sticks of 8? Wires won't work here, you need solid bars of copper! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Can't wait for the pix of the first look! Nice of you to tease us like this /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## cheesehead (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

I don't think you'd even have to solder the batteries together. The 30 amps will do the trick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Thanks for the updates and teasers.


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## Sway (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Wilkey,

I have an extra pair of welding gloves that I can send you, it would make me feel much better for your safety of course. I have to use them in the evening when I’m charging the moon up it’s a tuff job but you need the tools to do it.

MOON CHARGER: That’s me hunkered over holding the special moon charging unit.






Let me know if you want them.

Later
Sway


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## Nerd (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Hmm.... that the Lightforce Blitz 240..... 9 inch of reflector goodness. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I've brighten the picture a lil and here it is:






I noticed that it's F2.0 for 2 seconds @ ISO 100. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Ginseng (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Sway,
You are quite the nut! Cool picture /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif But my question is...are you charging by the moonlight or charging up the moon!?!

Cheese,
You can be sure I'll be wearing two layers of double thick rubber gloves when I start it up for the first time. I also have a polycarbonate full face shield and bump cap ready to go. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wilkey


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## Zelandeth (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

This is sheer madness...I love it! More pics!


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## Ginseng (Jan 2, 2004)

*Project: Aurora*

I am still working on the light engine cartridge so it will be a few more days until I can post a pic. In the mean time, here is Surreal Teaser Photo #5. The only handheld light with a 250V-rated, 7-tumbler security keylock switch 




Wilkey


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## Zelandeth (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Hehe, high power laser type security measures on a light...nice! Think this thing needs it too! Not one to look down the barell of and throw the switch. Never mind seeing spots, you'd probably end up seeing nothing.


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## Ginseng (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Right. I have an 11-month old daughter in the house and she's getting into everything. This is too dangerous to leave without adequate security measures. After all, what if terrorists got a hold of it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wilkey


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## pedalinbob (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

im sure ginseng will make 3 versions:

small

medium and

WTF!!!

Bob

ps love the pic of baby-ginseng!!! gotta show it to Carey asap.


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## AilSnail (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

So this project of yours, I'm supposed to see it in the sky over here? That why its called Aurora right? Or did you snatch some components from Area 51?


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## Zelandeth (Jan 2, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Just wondering there...that first pic, is that a projector bulb?


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## cheesehead (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Ginseng,

LOL, great thread. Nice pics of the little one. I have a 5 year old and tried to get her to carry a VEC 138 tonight, no interest, she preferred a little surefire. Eh, have a 2 year that I still have time to mold into the madness.

Sway, 

I think Nerd cleaned up the pic nicely and figured you out. So, if the Blitz is used for charging the moon, what light do you use to charge the sun?


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## Nerd (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

I bet Sway uses his top secret anti-matter fusion reactor with a anti-darkness emitter! It's the most powerful known to mankind (or any other living thing).

It's more powerful than any nuclear bomb or fusion device made by man. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## cheesehead (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

I suspect Ginseng too, has a few top secret tricks up his sleeve. 30 amps out of 4/5 A's? Parallel cells? Parallel universe (to get enough anti-matter)? Parallel wires to a nearby marine lead acid battery? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif


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## Ginseng (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Pedalinbob, 
"WTF"! I love it. Let's call it the "Wow, That Flashlight" version, ok? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Ail,
Even better. Area 52.

Cheesy,
Yep. Gotta start them young. She started with a PT Impact, then moved up to a Minimag, L4, 2C, 2D, 3D then the big Vector138. When she's a year, then we'll think about a Kumkang or MaxaBeam. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Wilkey


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## Nerd (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Uh, what's the HID they use on helicoptors? I remember there's one that suppose to do like 5-6 miles. it was 1300 watts I think, in a 12" or bigger reflector... You might want to get that and power it off some good F cells with an appropriate inverter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Nerd (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

[ QUOTE ]
*cheesehead said:*
I suspect Ginseng too, has a few top secret tricks up his sleeve. 30 amps out of 4/5 A's? Parallel cells? Parallel universe (to get enough anti-matter)? Parallel wires to a nearby marine lead acid battery? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really parallel cells if I didn't remember wrongly. Those KAN 4/5 A cells are designed for high output like 30 amps. Sanyo 4/5 A cells are suppose to do slightly better if I'm not wrong, but cost more.

And at the quantity that Wilkey is using, he had better stick to the cheaper ones. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif That's saying a lot for what he's designing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


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## Sway (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

*Nerd*
That would be Spectrolabs Nightsun pic in this thread.

Nice work with the pic, I must remember to keep *TOP SECRET* equipment out of view /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif 

*Wilkey* I eagerly await your next candid photos /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Later
Sway


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## cheesehead (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Nerd, 

NiMH no less? NiCD get "warm" at 10-30 amps. I would think NiMH would get hot and then explode in a hot molten metal mess. But, if they're designed for high current,...hmm, maybe,...ok,...well, I'll wait patiently for the answers.

cheese


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## Ginseng (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Right, the KAN cells are easily capable of 30 amps. They provide 10 amps with modest voltage drop and little loss of capacity. The PowerStream 1/2D's claim to fame is retention of capacity at high current draws. The Sanyo 4/5A AUP have slightly less voltage drop but slightly less capacity so it's sort of a wash. I'd really like to use the Sanyo 4/3A FAUP cells but they're too fat and a bit long. If the modular design of this light proves successful, then going to the 4/5 FAUP in a larger body would provide nearly 90% greater capacity with even better voltage retention under load. All for $4.50 a cell.

Cheezy,
The new generation of nimhs are very impressive. The RC guys, who have traditionally used nicads because of the intense current demands, have accepted these nimh because of their essentially equivalent performance at a better power density. Of course, they're moving rapidly to lithium polymer cells but I'm not quite ready to spend $300 for a battery pack. At this point, high current nimh provide the absolute best combination of current delivery and power density. And let's face it, even a 10 amp application (which has, until recently, been unheard of in the world of flashlights) is among the very lightest of RC applications. I'm speaking primarily of aerial RC where weight and power density are king.

Nerd,
It's easy to make a _large_ bright light. The trick is making a very bright, very small light. Right now, the standard is Kenshiro's Ken4. My small light right now is not that powerful, but should still be superior to a 50W HID. 

Wilkey


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## Ginseng (Jan 3, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

By 50W HID, I'm referring to units such as the WelchAllyn M50P021.

Wilkey


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## Nerd (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

200-300 million CP Search light

This is the one I'm talking about /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Ginseng (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Woohoo! The recoil on that unit must be impressive. I don't see a battery pack though. I would imagine a light that size must use a pretty hefty power source. I don't think it's in the light itself. The tripod legs don't appear to be sunk into the snow/ice. 

Wilkey


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## rlhess (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Nerd,

Nice find. 60 Amps at 22-26VDC input...right, Ginseng, no battery pack shown--it's in the Hummer parked down the road.

Interesting to note they use about 2fc for their field brightness - at 10,000 feet!

This is not that far off from my suggesting 1fc for flashlight throws.

Cheers,

Richard


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## PeterW (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Question 1: Is this light going to limited production? (Cost??)
Question 2: How big and heavy would it be?
Question 3: How do you recharge that large soldered block of batteries?
Question 4: How many lumens are you aiming for (also wattage?)
Question 5: What size reflector will it have?

This forum has the nasty habit of turing up better lights as soon as I run out of money. I was thinking of a 3MCP Vec, but you got me interested. I ain't interested in runtime, just eyeball smoking brightness and throw.

Cheers! Don't keep us in too much suspense, it is bad for our wallets!

PEterW


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## Ginseng (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

PeterW,

This is just a technology demonstration. Right now at least. It is designed to be as small as possible. I've already hinted at, no, stated precisely what the charger will be. You can find that here: Nimh Charger Discussion 

As for lumens, who knows? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Lots! As for watts, well, let's just say triple digits. Reflector? What's a reflector?

Wilkey


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## Nerd (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Wilkey, I saw some Sanyo HR-4/3AAUP which are essentially 4/3 AAs. They have a internal resistance of 6 milliohmz which means the same 30 amps output. But at a higher voltage drop. At around 1.03 volts to the 1500mah capacity mark before it drops off noticebly. Typical 2AH, Minimum 1.8 AH. Well, if you're looking for the smallest........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Ginseng (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Thanks Nerd,

I haven't found those cells around. Can't even find the datasheets on the Sanyo site. Sanyo does list them as a current model so I'm a bit perplexed. They'd be nice to try. I just haven't found a place that carries them. Do you have a lead? I think they have potential. The only thing with the 4/3 size is that it makes the battery stack longer rather than wider. 

Wilkey


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## Ginseng (Jan 5, 2004)

*Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast...*

As promised, here is the latest "in-progress" picture. Surreal Teaser Photo #6. This is the light engine cartridge during preliminary fit testing. A bulb is mounted in the high current socket. The socket is bolted to the cartridge. The cartridge is machined out of aluminum and is the primary lateral blast shield as well as thermal heat sink. Side walls are 5mm thick and the rear wall is 7mm thick. You cannot see it here but the switch assembly drops into the rear section of the cartridge which is behind the rear wall. The filament protrudes beyond the front lip of the cartridge into the focal point of the reflector. Unfortunately, I have not yet found a satisfactory way to protect the region in front of the reflector/cartridge from flying debris in case of detonation. The hand carrying the light and everything behind it, though, is well protected.





Wilkey


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## PaulW (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

Wilkey,

Progressing nicely. That's some heavy-duty hunk of metal. It's going to carry the heat away very well, but I'm wondering how you protect your hand from the high temperature that the handle will inevitably reach.

The screws used on the socket give it a hefty look also. Is that a commercial socket, or did you make it in your garage with a drill and file? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One final question. Have you had the courage to turn it on? For more than five seconds? 

Paul


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## Nerd (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

http://www.battlepack.com/loosecells.asp

Wilkey, the Sanyo cell, HR-4/5FAUP, provides extremely good discharge characteristics for your application. The improvements over the KAN 4/5 A 1800mahs may make the increase in price worth it. The discharge curve is below, looks rather appealing to me. 5 mins plus of very very bright light. It's the 1950 20 amps and 1950 30 amps curve. Notice how little it drops over 80% of the capacity of the battery. Only from 1.2 volts to 1.1 volts.






By comparism, the Sanyo 4/5A 1700 AUP has the following curve






Notice that the 1.1 volts to 0.95 volts. The FAT A only makes the entire pack a little wider. 18.1mm vs 17.2 mm. Just 0.9mm to be exact.

Do give it serious consideration. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## cheesehead (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

What bulb can you pick that won't blow at the starting nominal voltage, and yet be bright when voltage drops by nearly 50%? Or do you have to "scrub" off the excess voltage with a high current resistor and then turn on the bulb? 

What about all the "UV" produced by a halogen bulb? This was seriously debated on another thread-er, but I don't know why.

Will the head have room for one or two slices of toast?


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## AilSnail (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

Unless I missed something, the bulb won't draw more than 10A max. I have looked for 6-24v bulbs with higher amperage, but no luck.


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## Ginseng (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

Nerd,
I knew about the 4/5AUP and the 4/5FAUP. The 4/3AAUP is the one I can find no info for. Nerd, let's take the battery discussion to PMs. FWIW, the 4/3FAUP would be my next battery of choice.

Cheezy,
The switch is SPDT. Does that help?

Paul,
Thanks. That's the socket I posted earlier in this thread.

The project is going to go underground for a while. I'm having some additional machining done while I work on building the battery packs. So for now, that's all the teaser photos. Be back in ???

Wilkey


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## Nerd (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

Probably no one is crazy enough to do more than 10 amps on 6-24 volts bulb yet. But Wilkey is making a light. And who knows if that includes a bulb! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

A custom ordered 9.6 volts 30 amps bulb with a colour temp of 3300K. Or is it a 24 volts 30 amps bulb? I do know that Carley allows you to order a bulb with custom specifications, but the minmum quantity is 100 if I'm not wrong. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


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## cheesehead (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

Ginseng,
SPDT, yup, 2 slices of toast, I knew it!

Nerd/Ailsnail,
Do the 600-1000 watt aircraft landing lights count as bulbs? They are a convenient 24 volts (i.e. 25-40 amps).


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## AilSnail (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

Is the SPDT used with a resistor to dip the initial voltage? that would be neat!


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## cheesehead (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

Ailsnail,
Oh yah, me dumb, thinking of the DPDT or something of that ilk. SPDT would be a great idea to scrub down the voltage, warm up the cells and then flip over to full power. But all these posts will just drive the project more underground. Just hope it's not there too long.

Nerd, 
Ken4, must have been well over 10 amps (to get those kind of beam shots). Er, I guess I could be wrong, wouldn't the first time, won't be the last.


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## Ginseng (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

Ken 4 was around 10 amps but 24V.

Wilkey


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## cheesehead (Jan 6, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

WOW, hmm,...like I said, "won't be the last."

Just makes me wonder about those 2 members with their 600 watt aircraft lights. Heavy and awkward, but I assume, stupid bright.

cheese

ps. have you looked at the HIR (halogen infrared) beams made by GE, claim 30% more output because the infrared is reflected back to the filament to help it GLOW.


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## Nerd (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

*Chanting* We want updates! We want updates! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## cheesehead (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Down the throat of the beast*

ibid, we want updates, we want updates (no caps YET!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Ginseng (Jan 10, 2004)

*Project: Aurora*

Soon.

Aurora was test fired for the first time today. 

Wilkey


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## cheesehead (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

OH BOY OH BOY ! ! ! 

cheese


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## Nerd (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

OH my! Test fired for the first time? Did you wear the asbestos gloves? What about the Laser protection goggles? (What's that call? YAG goggles?) Did you wear kevlar body armour incase anything blows? Did the birds that were flying cook (deep fry) half way in mid air? Was there any reports of a big fire in any town?

(Okay, I'm done exaggerating)

Take your time, good things comes to those who wait. Sure would like some pics though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Sway (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Since this project went underground I employed a confidant to capture secret spy photos of Project Aurora and report back with his findings and I’m fortunate he came back with his life as he was on the receiving end of this blast. As you can see in this Secret Spy photo Project Aurora kicks out some very nasty photons in it's initial blast clearing a path of destruction just like Godzilla’s death ray while still warming its tungston filament into the impossible range, how far will this madness go?







I need a fall out shelter in the back yard.

Later,
While I'm still here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Sawy


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## cheesehead (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Nerd,

It's time to "clean up" his photo and see what's really going on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

cheese

ps, although looks like Sway took care not to use too many photons in the background.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif


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## Nerd (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

cheesehead,

Thanks for reminding me, but apparently the beam has overloaded the camera so much that there's nothing that can be captured in the darkness. I mean nothing! Nothing, zero, nil, nada, zilch, kein, kosong, mei you! You probably can see a bit of blue stuff from where the beam came from. But that's it!

But I did recover the exposure info on the picture. Taken with a Sony Cybershot camera, at 23.36 hours.

ISO 100
F2.0
2 seconds shutter exposure.
9.3mm focal length

Only the Sony F707 and the Sony F717 and the Sony F828 has a f2.0 aperature. Both the 707 and the 717 has a lens focal length starting from 9.7mm. Therefore I'm to believe that the camera he used for the pictures is a Sony F828 unless the Exif data is wrong or the program reading it is wrong (Adobe Photoshop) since the F828 uses a 7.1-51mm lens


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## Ginseng (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Note to self: erase EXIF data from photo header.

Wilkey


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## KartRacer31 (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Nerd - Man that's scary impressive how much you were able to figure out about that. It was like a sceen from CSI.


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## cheesehead (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Nerd-I'm impressed too, and scared. You may have sent Ginseng into hiding for a bit.


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## Nerd (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Aww.. come on, show us more pics.. and don't erase the exif data so that we all can know what time of the nite did you take those pictures. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## gwbaltzell (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Recently "liberated" one of Ginseng's light engines:




and have been able to improve on it by increasing output 54% while reducing wattage 13%. Efficiency should be over 26 lm/W. Current power source is heavier than we'd like but can be found on almost any street. It only uses six cells. Working on a concentrator that in the first test we would expect to produce at least 45,000cd.
Below is our teaser picture of our light engine.





edit: Sorry, typo. Should have read over 26 lm/W instead of 24


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## cheesehead (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Infrared coatiing! Has to be. Hey, how many people are working on this clandestine project?

cheese


----------



## Nerd (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

[ QUOTE ]
Current power source is heavier than we'd like but can be found on almost any street. It only uses six cells.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh.. what's this I see... power source that can be found on almost any street and only 6 cells... it cannot be a SLA, but a D size battery cannot be found on almost any street either..

Wonder what's this elusive power source.


----------



## Ginseng (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

That's not my engine but I know it. Efficient but not enough oomph. Cheesy, you are right on. 24 Lu/W seems low.

Cars are found on most any street.

While there is only one Aurora, I'm sure I'm not the only one working on an ultrahigh powered halogen-based torch. But unlike the Ken series (the only other previous series that was revealed in any detail here), Aurora is scalable allowing one to more than triple the luminous output in under five minutes. 

Believe me when I say that I have thought alot about what it would take to break new ground in this field. Simply stacking more batteries together or buying outrageously powerful bulbs is ultimately a self defeating enterprise the end result of which is "How bright can you afford to go?" 

In terms of the types of focusable torches we favor, the very real and very harsh basic constraints of filament size and voltage limit what can be done. Can I make a 20,000 lumen torch? Of course. But can I make it do so with desirable beam quality and be carried for extended periods? Probably not. Can I make a 150,000 lumen torch that focuses to a pinpoint? Sure. But it sure as heck ain't gonna fit in your pocket and will cost you a mortgage payment. 

I guess at some point, one gets philosophical. I think that's when one passes from the ranks of dilettante to craftsman. Maybe I'm wrong but I think design at the limits is ultimately about engineering compromises and not totally blue sky since quality necessarily goes hand in hand with quantity.

Wilkey


----------



## cheesehead (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

So, you're saying this is gonna be something reasonable the rest of us can also create? OH BOY OH BOY!

Good luck, looking forward to any and all details.

cheese


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

We now announce our withdrawal from this competition. I didn't really want to expose Ginseng's "engine" though I'm pretty sure I know what it is. And its around 7.5 times brighter than the "liberated" bulb pictured. Other than the phrase "liberated from Ginseng" all pictures and facts in the post itself are true for the "engines" depicted. Two pieces of real information. First is for anyone trying to duplicate this project. Some holders are rated only by voltage and wattage. If you are using a lower voltage bulb the wiring may be too small. Calculate amps by dividing the voltage of the "engine" into it's watts. Check a wire guage table. Ginseng's is correct for the "engine" I believe he is using, if its wattage rating is high enough for the heat generated. Second is just an alternate power source. A reminder that Saft makes a NiMh size F cell. Four size Fs are what's inside a 6V lantern battery. These are an alternate cell for the Segway scooter. 

BTW shouldn't you have one or two more cells, unless of course you're going for longer "engine" life?


----------



## cheesehead (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Getting warmer here? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Eh, a little "friendly" competition and perhaps even heckling, makes it all more interesting. How boring would it be if everyone just agreed?

cheese


----------



## Ginseng (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

GW,
I'd really like to see your work. So by all means please continue. It's unlikely that any two modders would take the exact same approach to a mod even if the objectives are very similar. In the end, the community benefits by getting to see some interesting and thought provoking work. I like the bulb you've chosen. In some ways it is a more advanced design than the one I've chosen strictly for brute force capability. I had not even thought about F cells. I can't imagine how long it would take to charge one of those suckers at 1.5A. You definitely had me fooled. As for the cell count, I don't run anything that's not overdriven. Long life? What's that? My mantra (stolen) is "It's better to burn out than to fade away." On the socket issue. The power levels I'm running should only be potentially problematic for the large torch. Beyond that, there are 750W continuous sockets that can be brought to bear.

Cheesy,
You are right on about competition. It's a good thing. Besides, I've provided plenty of clues sprinkled throughout several threads as to exactly what I'm doing. 

Stay tuned all. More pictures coming by the end of this week, maybe. I have some concerns about the ability of the keylock switch to handle the current I'll be pumping through it. May have to drop back to a mundane industrial power rocker. _Rude awakening:_ a 100W power resistor is HOW big??? 

Wilkey


----------



## PaulW (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

[ QUOTE ]
*cheesehead said:*

. . . How boring would it be if everyone just agreed?

cheese


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

(Sorry, but but that was _begging_ to be said.)

Paul


----------



## cheesehead (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

LOL, yup left myself wide open.

cheese

I'm not even going to say the cliche "we agree to disagree".


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

[ QUOTE ]

... _Rude awakening:_ a 100W power resistor is HOW big??? 

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

One word: Pulse width modulation. OK, three words. 
'Course its going to take a fairly heavy duty transistor. Likely a MOSFET for lower ON resistance.

Good Luck.
George


----------



## Zelandeth (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

How about a relay switched by the keyswitch to solve that problem. Given that the key is kinda an important safety feature...


----------



## cheesehead (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Eh, you could use one of those RC car regulators, I'm pretty sure they are good up to 10 amps. Then you could turn the light on and off from a distance, an important safety feature. But even more important, a remote control spot would also be good for practical jokes. 

"Hey, I think I dropped a dollar over there" you say, then as your victim bends over to look, --- 
B L E A Z A P P ! ! !

"AW, MY EYES, YOU SOB ! ! !"

cheese


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Simpler dimming solution, assuming this was the reason for the 100W resistor, is to tap the battery pack at a lower voltage and have a switch to pick the tap points. There is one form of 100W resistor than comes to mind. Its harder to heat sink than a regular power resistor, and non-linear. It would be a 100W bulb shielded from view. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif In your case because of the non-linearity a 250W might be the right choice. May have guessed wrong about the last digit in your "light engine" #. Going to reread those other posts.


----------



## cheesehead (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Ya, but will it go BLEAZAPP?


----------



## Ginseng (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Thanks for the suggestions guys! I really appreciate it. I had thought of building an assymetric battery pack and slotting the power resistor in the space vacated by three cells but realized that would not be a good idea. 

PWM is a very nice solution and in fact would allow me to significantly increase the runtime and robustness of the engine at the expense of a larger basic battery pack. The v1.0 cartridge is not designed to house a PWM LVR controller but the v2.0 could be redesigned to do so. I have just the controller in mind and it's got a massive honking MOSFET. I'm going to have to think about the pack tapping idea a bit.

Zelandeth, please elaborate on the relay concept. Not being an electrical guy, the option is not immediately clear to me. 

Cheesy, you're just evil /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wilkey


----------



## cheesehead (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Zelandeth, do you mean like in car headlights? 

My 5 year old already BLEAZAPPed her younger sister (just for a second, she was a little dizzy, but recovered quickly). I think some kind of safety feature for anything over 100 watts would be useful, to keep the more dangerous BLEAZAPPing to a minimum.

cheese


----------



## Tweek (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Relays are simple. Basically you use youy keyswitch to close the circuit with the relay's coil, and you use the relay's normally open set of contacts to control the high current load. Your car likely has at least a dozen relays in it, for loads that regular switches just don't work as well for.

Chris


----------



## Ginseng (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

GW,

I examined the idea of using a mid-pack tap and switch. While it can be done, it is not desirable. The reason being that using the sub-pack to warm up the light before bringing all the cells in circuit would result in a few cells that would always be at a different state of discharge than the others. This is not a good situation at all.

wilkey


----------



## cheesehead (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Ginseng, 

What about creating a circuit that uses the cells in parallel and then flipping the switch to use the cells in series. Although, maybe the voltage from the connection in parallel wouldn't be high enough (since it would be half voltage), but if the light is overdriven, it seems like it may help warm things up.

cheese


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Wilkey

I said I'd prefer PWM! And before I continue I highly recommend that each tapped section of the battery pack be fused. Circuit breaker, standard fuse, thermal fuse, something. I had assumed that the purpose was to warm up the bulb. I don't know in your case, but in *normal* operation this is done in 1-2 seconds. Imbalance would not be so bad. The main risk is the weakened cell going into reverse charge while under load. Most cell makers recommend that a battery pack not be drained below 0.9V per cell only for this reason (22*0.9V = 19.8V). I figured you'd not let the light get this dim. A good charger will re-balance the pack. Individual NiCd or NiMh cells can be fully discharged *without harm*. This is not true of SLA. Even deep discharge SLA. Cheesehead's idea of paralleling the evenly tapped sections is good unless there is a bad cell in a section. Why I made the point about a fuse per section or if the switch fails to break before make.

George


----------



## cheesehead (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

GWB,

I was thinking the 2 parallel sets of batteries would work together (half the voltage, twice the current-if needed), so this wouldn't create any over-stressed cells. But, what you're saying is that a weak cell is worse with parallel battery packs than with them in series?

cheese


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

I saying that *when* (not if) a cell fails the is the potential for serious current flow that at best might weld the switch contacts. Use fuses or at least a fuse.


----------



## Zelandeth (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Relay idea for controlling the light here is pretty simple, as for the "Soft Start" I'm not totally sure, though I'm wondering if a similar device to the one described here. Halogen Chandelier from bigclive.com (See bottom of article) 

As for the relay, it'd probably be easiest to use something like this....gimme a minute, gotta reboot before Multisim will work...just reinstalled it. 







Not actually sure how well this would work...but it does work on a small scale (Just checked, using a car headlight relay). I'm guessing here that the current drawn to activate the relay in this case would be small enough to be negledgible, so the switch itself is only having to carry milliamps, while the relay's internal switch it doing all the hard work. 

BTW, ignore the values in this diagram, they're irrelevent, here, just the wiring that matters.


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Dodgy is the right word for that chandelier. Exposed 230V, bare halogen lamps that seem not to even have a coating. UV, shattered quartz. Osram does make bulbs with coatings and are low pressure but they don't seem to be common.

NTC stand for Negative Temperature Coefficient. When used for measuring temperature its called a thermistor.
Here is a pdf file from one of the larger makers.


----------



## Zelandeth (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Gah...why on earth didn't I realise that was just a thermistor?!? Guess my mind's on another planet tonight!


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

[ QUOTE ]
*Zelandeth said:*
Gah...why on earth didn't I realise that was just a thermistor?!? Guess my mind's on another planet tonight! 

[/ QUOTE ]

When use for this purpose it's normally called a NTC resistor. Same thing, two names. Occasionally some people will refer to it by using a different manufactures's name. A "Globar" resistor.


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Wilkey

I'm getting the bug now, and its all your fault. My info. up to now was base on research for a lantern not a spotlight! But since I found I can buy your light engine (Photonic Engine, electromagnetic wave generator) for the same price as an H3 (less shipping of course). And even thought its rated life is 300hrs and should be mounted base down, its price and performance are hard to beat! 36 lm/W and not even infrared conserving! I still think I would run it from a power source "found on most any street". Should not be that hard except for the high amperage. Wouldn't be plugging that baby into the cig. lighter!

Specs. for the NiMh F cell I mentioned before are  at Saft. One version is 15 AH. Can be quick charged at 4-5 A or the 16 hr rate is 1.4 A.

George

Quote - "dehydrated Prunus domestics" - cheese


----------



## cheesehead (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

George,
I wasn't sure if you had a sense of humor, as it sometimes seems to be hidden, like all the details of this light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey and George,
All this anticipation is going to kill me. That's why I usually stick to simpler threads like the one about a urine light.

cheese /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 17, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

[ QUOTE ]
*cheesehead said:*
George,
I wasn't sure if you had a sense of humor, as it sometimes seems to be hidden, like all the details of this light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey and George,
All this anticipation is going to kill me. That's why I usually stick to simpler threads like the one about a urine light.

cheese /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Cheese

Humor? What humor? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
And if you want to p*ss away your time on that thread. Well!

George


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

Found a pre-made but I think it has more features than I need. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Didn't ask the price, off the shelf is too easy!
<ul type="square">
[*]X/Y Mirror: pan 170 deg & tilt 90 deg 
[*]Die-cast aluminum case 
[*]9 colors plus white 
[*]9 interchangeable gobos 
[*]Adjustable focus lens
[*] Coated lenses: AR & IR 
[*]Strobe effect, 1-5 fps 
[*]4 stepper motors 
[*]DMX input via 3-Pin XLR 
[*]DMX control on 4 channels 
[*]Dip Switch for address & function settings 
[*]Fan cooling 
[*]Mounting bracket 
[*]Lamp: (now that would be telling wouldn't it)
[*]Power: 120v-50/60hz, (concealed for cheesehead's sake) current draw 
[*]Size: 26.3”x11.8”x7.1” 
[*]Weight: 15Kgs/33.1Lbs
[/list]


----------



## Ginseng (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

I don't see the relevance of that. It's a disco lighting system or something?

33 pounds? Good gosh.


----------



## cheesehead (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

GWB, 

That's more like it. 33lbs, but at least it has fan cooling, so Sway wouldn't burn his gloves.

I see you couldn't resist the urine light thread, personally I have to stop going there (sorry).


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
I don't see the relevance of that. It's a disco lighting system or something?

33 pounds? Good gosh. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Relevance? Its a *spotlight* isn't it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif And it uses the same engine! OK, it has too many bells and whistles and takes 110V. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif and likely too much dough /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif . 

Excuse me. I just had an _urge_ to go post in the urine powered flashlight thread!


----------



## Ginseng (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

That's a spotlight? If we're going to take that tack, I'd offer that the Arri T24 24,000W spotllight is the big dog. Now who would buy a light that takes a $2,200 replacement bulb? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Wilkey


----------



## gwbaltzell (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
That's a spotlight? If we're going to take that tack, I'd offer that the Arri T24 24,000W spotllight is the big dog. Now who would buy a light that takes a $2,200 replacement bulb? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that one is for a slightly larger stage! 32,200 lux at 10 meters! Well, at least they also sell a truck with a 144KVA generator. Not a bad power source. Could run several of those spots. I guess we should wander back to more resonable lights before cheesehead thinks thats the price of your light engine, er, electromagnetic wave generator.

George


----------



## cheesehead (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora*

My dreams squashed again. Those sound about as bright as the sun.


----------



## Ginseng (Jan 30, 2004)

*Project: Aurora - Update*

Did the first full-power testing using the entire powertrain today. The switch and connectors were all in place. The battery pack has proven itself to be quite stable at sub-10A draw. The reflector performance was almost indistinguishable from ones twice its size. The output? Awesome. When the body comes back from the machinist early next week, I'll be able to post side by side beamshots comparing the Aurora to other benchmark lights and you'll finally get to see what the torch itself looks like. It's been a long haul, but I'm getting more and more of a rush as project completion nears.

Wilkey


----------



## PaulW (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Wilkey,

That's great news. I know you've been working patiently and diligently on this. The rush you describe is contageous. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Paul 

P.S. I hope you'll be putting up a new picture soon. Your daughter looks so sad every time I see one of your posts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


----------



## Ginseng (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Paul,

If you saw some of the stuff I've found in her diapers you'd understand. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wilkey


----------



## Sway (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Wilkey,

Much better she looks happy now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

Aurora sounds like it's taking shape /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif but I may not be able to /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif with anticipation of pic's! 

Later
Sway


----------



## PaulW (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Empress. Yes, I like that. A much better pic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Zelandeth (Feb 17, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Any updates likely soon? I'm gettin' impatient!


----------



## Ginseng (Feb 18, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Zel,
I met with my machinist today and there were some problems with the initial design. We had a mind session and came up with a reasonably novel solution. Unfortunately, novel means more time and more expense. It'll be a bit longer.
Wilkey


----------



## Zelandeth (Feb 23, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Aww...Ah well, patience is a virtue. Back to fiddling with the website I guess.


----------



## Ginseng (Feb 23, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Zel,
Aurora is done. I've just got to get outside and take beamshotz. After all this time, I don't think you'll be disappointed. It's the finest and by far the most powerful mod I've ever created. You'll see a first ever, super special beamshot comparison in the coming post in the Mod Forum. 
Wilkey


----------



## Sway (Feb 23, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Congrats Wilkey!

Sounds like it's been worth the wait /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Later
Sway


----------



## AlexGT (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Can't wait for the pics to show, I will have to remeber myself to bring sunglasses and sunblocker to te PC before opening the thread.

Congrats!
Alex


----------



## MR Bulk (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Wilkey,

I talked to your original proto machinist recently. This thing should be AWE-some, especially with that reflector you chose. Congrats.


----------



## Ginseng (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Thanks guys. I'm taking beamshots tonight. 

Wilkey


----------



## PaulW (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

And what time should we be at our computers to see them ? ? ? ? ?


----------



## Ginseng (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Hehe,
Stop it Paul. You're giving me the stagefright! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Wilkey


----------



## Sway (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
Thanks guys. I'm taking beamshots tonight. 

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

Wilkey does it ever get dark around you place /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

Later
Sway


----------



## Ginseng (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Nah,

I'm doing all sorts of weird stuff like turning SL-15's into TigerLights. Mag 3Cs into MagCharger60's etc. You stil chargin up the moon? I imagine it must take half the time now with your HID Blitz. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey


----------



## Luke (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Still not sure what this thread is about.... But cant wait!!!


----------



## NightStorm (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Dan


----------



## Sway (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Stand Down,

All moon charging activities on the East cost have been put on hold pending the introduction of * Project Aurora*

Later
Sway


----------



## Ginseng (Feb 24, 2004)

*Project: Aurora - Complete*

It's a wrap. Here's the thread in the Mods Forum. Enjoy! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Aurora Revealed 

Wilkey


----------



## cheesehead (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

I'm counting down too, CAN'T WAIT, this is gonna be great. If the originator of the MAG 1160, thinks that's an ordinary light,....I can't wait to see what he thinks is a great light.

be back soon,

cheese


----------



## Ginseng (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

Thanks Cheesy, 
But I didn't come up with the MC60, although I think I did help to make it more popular. I will, however, take some small amount of credit for raising the general level of awareness of Hot Wire possibilities.
Wilkey


----------



## Zelandeth (Feb 27, 2004)

*Re: Project: Aurora - Update*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Okay...I think we can now all officially declare you the master of hotwire technology! Excellent work. Still wish I'd put the sunglasses on before looking at those beamshots though...ouch...


----------

