# New Petzl Myo XP (gray) LED???



## fordwillman (Jun 29, 2008)

Maybe I cant see, but does the new Myo XP use a Cree or other modern LED? Their site is not clear, just hi power LED. I would like to get a new headlamp, but a Cree or other modern, bright and long running LED is a MUST!! 
One other requirement, it must have some throw. Thanks.


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## half-watt (Jun 30, 2008)

mine looks like it's an SSC perhaps???

i can't tell for sure b/c of the material over the emitter. i can see attachment wires (like in my SSC emitter lights), but not the NAKED die as i can w/the Cree lights that i have.

my vote is for some type of SSC emitter vs. a Cree or Rebel.


anyways, it has the same burn-times, IIRC, as the '07 and earlier model years, but it is 2x as bright.

this headlamp is very bright. you won't be disappointed. it is now my favorite HL.


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## Szemhazai (Jun 30, 2008)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/188749

SSC P4 U-bin


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 2, 2008)

half-watt said:


> mine looks like it's an SSC perhaps???
> 
> i can't tell for sure b/c of the material over the emitter. i can see attachment wires (like in my SSC emitter lights), but not the NAKED die as i can w/the Cree lights that i have.
> 
> ...


It is nice and bright, but it's not regulated.


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## hopkins (Jul 10, 2008)

those Petzl guys know what they're doing with the Myo Xp - keeping it unreg'd.
People may have already actually died when a 'regulated light'
shut off suddenly or went into 'moon mode'.
Not something you want to happen at 2am, in a blizzard, as you try to find
the high camp at 17,000ft.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 10, 2008)

hopkins said:


> those Petzl guys know what they're doing with the Myo Xp - keeping it unreg'd.
> People may have already actually died when a 'regulated light'
> shut off suddenly or went into 'moon mode'.
> Not something you want to happen at 2am, in a blizzard, as you try to find
> the high camp at 17,000ft.


So that makes Princeton Tec, Stenlight and Black Diamond guilty of putting users at deadly risk?

That's a sorry *** excuse for not working on a regulator. It's very easy to implement something like a low battery warning system. Petzl just doesn't give a rat's *** because there is little competition for headlamps in the European market. They are the "Maglite" of outdoor sports gear and they are pretty happy about it.


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## hopkins (Jul 10, 2008)

sometimes the obvious needs to be pointed out: un-regulated lights 
slowly get dim thus letting the user know the batteries are getting low.
A foolproof notification system would'nt you agree?:thinking:

A person will notice the dimming and have time to figure a battery change into the busy schedule of staying alive.


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## half-watt (Jul 10, 2008)

hopkins said:


> ...A person will notice the dimming and have time to figure a battery change into the busy schedule...



this is one of the selling points of unregulated lights. however, it is also a selling point of some regulated lights too. such regulated lights either automagically step down to a lower brightness level or flicker/flash as an indication that supply voltage is getting low.

now, i appreciate both regulated and unregulated lights. i've used a fair number of Petzl HLs over the years. one thing others can probably also attest to is the fact that whether you're using it in bursts of a few minutes, or on running continuously for hours, your mind is preoccupied w/other matters (e.g., trekking, climbing, reading, setting up camp, etc.) and, in my case (YMMV), i simply don't notice a LONG burning unregulated light getting dimmer, until it is quite a bit dimmer, perhaps 50% of its initial starting brightness, or even less. this is NOT to say that side-by-side, or alternating b/t two light sources i can't tell a 33% difference. i can, but in this case i'm purposely performing a simple visual test to try to determine which light is brighter.

now, if i were to sit there for hours looking at, let's say, some sort of target area, and was to take notice of when certain features start to become unrecognizable, then i'd probably notice it sooner - certainly far sooner than when the supply source was 75% discharged.

however, in actual use while trekking, i'm moving the light beam about b/t near (to get advance notice of terrain for foot placement), and distant (to pick out faded, low contrast blazes on tree trunks and rocks marking bends/turns in an unfamiliar trail). now, even though the light is used like this for hours in some cases, it's not until the light is SIGNIFICANTLY dimmer that i FIRST START to notice.

the unregulated output of a MyoXP, for example, simply dims too slowly to be easily noticed until it becomes oh so very dim. obviously, it's NOT like ramping an adjustable flashlight (e.g. one of the NiteCore lights) which dims/brightens over its full adjustment range in just four or six seconds.

also, just using it in bursts of a few minutes at a time, doesn't give my eye/brain the memory of its previous use. so then, particularly in this circumstance i don't notice it getting dimmer either until it is too dim to use for whatever use i'm putting the light to.

what i do notice is when the light is too dim to accomplish the task that i'm attempting to utilize it for, but as stated above, this might be when it's at 25% or less of its initial starting brightness, depending upon my use (i.e. 25% for task/proximity lighting; 50% of initial brightness , or LESS, even 25%, if the HL is a very bright hi-powered one, when actually on the move on the trail).

look at it this way, if a Xenon HL burns for three, six, or eleven hours (Mfr. claimed burntime down to an almost unusable 0.25 lux to a more generous 2 lux), depending upon the power source, during minute by minute continuous use i simply don't notice it getting dimmer until, in many cases, its 25% or less of its initial starting brightness. one's eye and brain just get accustomed to the particular level of light o.p. that is currently being experienced.

even "worse", so to speak, is an LED HL which might burn for 50h or more. during minute by minute continuous use i simply don't notice it getting dimmer until the supply voltage gets close the the fwd. bias voltage of the LED and light production drops off markedly.

obviously, for high current draw applications, a regulator can keep the light bright for a longer period of time (integrate the burntime curves for similarly powered regulated and unregulated lights to see this). however, in many designs, for low current draw light levels, the unregulated light can usually provide a longer usable burntime than a very similar regulated light (even one that switches over to direct drive at some point to squeeze out every last coulomb of charge) since there is no parasitic drain fr/a regulator or converter circuit. this is largely b/c the lower the light level the less amount of current req'd to produce that light level and, generally speaking, the higher the percentage of the total current draw fr/the power source the parasitic drain of the electronics becomes.

my two shekels. YMMV.


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## hopkins (Jul 10, 2008)

Well said Half-watt. A slowly dimming Myo Xp (or other light) let the eyes adjust
which is not a problem (some people take extra vitamin A to boost night vision).

Some even have fun by 'seeing' how far you can letting the batteries drain down and still see enough to make progress before changing them. This usually
ends with asking your partners to light up your hands as you change batteries
and examine the rip in your trousers.:sigh:

And Outdoor Fanatic - I would not say that the makers of regulated HL's put
peoples lives at risk. We head cases do that well enough by the gear we choose when out adventuring. The more complex the gadget (lights, cameras,
crampon straps) the higher chance of failure.


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## Woods Walker (Jul 10, 2008)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> It is nice and bright, but it's not regulated.


 

Yea I wonder why? I won't buy another light that is not regulated.


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## Woods Walker (Jul 10, 2008)

hopkins said:


> sometimes the obvious needs to be pointed out: un-regulated lights
> slowly get dim thus letting the user know the batteries are getting low.
> A foolproof notification system would'nt you agree?:thinking:
> 
> A person will notice the dimming and have time to figure a battery change into the busy schedule of staying alive.


 
I can tell when my regulated Apex is running down. That and some other PT lights have a little flashing LED thing that the warns the user. It stays on after the light is turned off and is hard to miss.


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## hopkins (Jul 10, 2008)

The old Myo Xp has the same sort of tiny led: slow blinks green, then orange, then red but only when the headlamp is on. (probably the same on the new
(gray) model. The downside is you got to take the headlamp off to see
this battery status led. ( I've looked after the lamp got dim).

Just to see if it worked one time I put almost dead alkalines inside and yup it blinked red

And if I have Nimh AA's in the Myo Xp it'll probably be off
a bit as it's calibrated to alkaline voltages (just my guess) but no big deal.
With rechargables I'm wouldn't want to drain them anyway to avoid damage
unless I did not have spares to swap in and had to keep moving.

I like the 'find me' double function of the PT Apex battery status led.


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## davepen (Jul 10, 2008)

Can I ask what "regulated" means?


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## hopkins (Jul 10, 2008)

Sure davepen.

*Regulated* means there is circuit (ie transistors , capacitors, inductors, op-amps, resistors, etc) between the batteries and the LED which
is designed to keep the LED at a certain output brightness until the batteries
are drained. Then the LED suddenly goes out! Surprise!!!

Makes the light cost more and some are very complex with multi-modes and can give warnings (blink blink) just before they die.


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## Marduke (Jul 10, 2008)

hopkins said:


> Sure davepen.
> 
> *Regulated* means there is circuit (ie transistors , capacitors, inductors, op-amps, resistors, etc) between the batteries and the LED which
> is designed to keep the LED at a certain output brightness until the batteries
> ...



That's not entirely true. A regulated circuit is quite cheap, and costs no more than a simple boost or buck circuit. Also, a well designed circuit does not just cut out, but dims down over some period of time, and enters a moon mode. There are exceptions with poorly designed circuits (namely the 2xAA LED MiniMag) which do just blink off, but most do not.


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## Woods Walker (Jul 11, 2008)

Marduke said:


> That's not entirely true. A regulated circuit is quite cheap, and costs no more than a simple boost or buck circuit. Also, a well designed circuit does not just cut out, but dims down over some period of time, and enters a moon mode. There are exceptions with poorly designed circuits (namely the 2xAA LED MiniMag) which do just blink off, but most do not.


 
Yea my regualted lights just don't go out. There is some warning as they dim over what is a shorter time than a non regulated light. But still time enough to change the batteries. The Apex has a very small warning light that tells me long before it is time to change batteries. I can also move down to the lower setting of the main light or use the 4 side CS LEDs. Then move down to the lower settings of these too. There are advantages to having a headlamp with multiple LED types. I have noticed the main light on high will flash when the cells are getting low but it only happened a few times so can't say for sure. I really like the Apex however wish for a more updated main light. But to be honest I really don't use the spot light that often. Mostly for night Kayak trips when I want to see at distance to go around stuff. The four side LEDS can flood a good area on high. In any case for me I only want regulated output. But what works for me may not be for everyone.

Anyone knows how the Apex would work on some LSD cells? PT says use normal batteries or Lithiums only. Any reason for this?


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## Woods Walker (Jul 11, 2008)

hopkins said:


> The old Myo Xp has the same sort of tiny led: slow blinks green, then orange, then red but only when the headlamp is on. (probably the same on the new
> (gray) model. The downside is you got to take the headlamp off to see
> this battery status led. ( I've looked after the lamp got dim).
> 
> ...


 
Yea I have used the status light to find the Apex in my tent. Kinda nice.


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## PhantomPhoton (Jul 11, 2008)

First there are plenty of semi regulated designs. They keep the light constant until the battery can't keep up then dim just like a DD light once the battery can't keep up.
While a DD light does have a certain robustness and efficiency to it, most manufacturers go with a DD design because it's easier, not because they _want_ to make a better light. 
Any regulated light that immediately shuts off is a poor design. There are good regulated lights that step down gradually and still keep in regulation. Unfortunately lights like this are few and far between, especially when we're talking about headlamps.

The apex work just fine with NiMh cells btw.


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## hopkins (Jul 11, 2008)

Wonder if I sent an email request to the right person at Petzl for
an explanation of why they have remained strong and not succumbed to adding regulation in the Myo Xp we'd get there perspective?

Anyone know enough French to phrase it politely?


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## Marduke (Jul 11, 2008)

hopkins said:


> Wonder if I sent an email request to the right person at Petzl for
> an explanation of why they have remained strong and not succumbed to adding regulation in the Myo Xp we'd get there perspective?
> 
> Anyone know enough French to phrase it politely?



Ask them why they don't use a decent heatsink either.


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## Szemhazai (Jul 11, 2008)

hopkins said:


> why they have remained strong and not succumbed to adding regulation in the Myo Xp we'd get there perspective??



Ooo..... :hahaha:Have you ever heard about costs reduction ?? They have to change a led and the paint added to the case molding - it costs them almost nothing and they have the new product :nana:


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