# What flashlights are in official use by the US Armed Forces



## Bill. Tokyo (May 2, 2011)

While I'm sure that there are a wide number of lights in use by all the branches of the armed forces, I would be curious to know what some of them are, and if some of them can also be purchased by the general public?


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## the.Mtn.Man (May 2, 2011)

I know HDS Systems has a military contract. According to the company president, "The military contracted for the HDS Systems EDC Ultimate 60 with a few customizations. They are now purchasing our EDC Tactical units" (link). You can buy these lights directly from HDS and various dealers. They're a bit pricey but worth every penny (I have a high CRI EDC Clicky).

I think Surefire lights are also popular with the US military, though I'm not sure exactly which models. They're also fairly expensive, but people swear by them.


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## angelofwar (May 2, 2011)

Surefire
HDS
Fulton
Gerber
Smith & Wesson
[email protected]

That's about it. The military largely quit comissioning flashlights (like the Fulton), and now just buys what the market offers, as long as it's built to certain mil-specs. Special units still request certain things, and usually buys them with unit funds...


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## Barrie (May 2, 2011)

PALight /safelight 
have a contract with the US military


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## Beatkeeper120 (May 2, 2011)

does Polarion have a contract?


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## Erzengel (May 2, 2011)

The Streamlight Sidewinder is issued to the US Marines
http://marinesmagazine.dodlive.mil/2010/01/04/moonbeam/


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## Imon (May 2, 2011)

A few of my coworkers are Iraq/Afghanistan vets and most of them have told me that they used Surefires. The M600 Scout seems to be a particularly popular weaponlight.


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## DivineStrike (May 3, 2011)

The military can buy whatever flashlight is needed. I'm sure all brands have been used. My shop uses LED Lensers for inspections of large Acft and they work really well. Some use surefire, pelican etc... it all really depends on who has the sections "credit card". Some places have contracts and others use a Gov't card to order stuff like flashlights, for whatever they require.

We have the Surefire U2 Ultra's here and they suck for what we do. I don't know how it's rated at 100 lumens and $300. Just rediculous. I know I bring up my headlamp alot in discussion but why does a 4 year old $45 Petzl XP Head lamp with only 40(60 with turbo) lumens out shine this thing at 60 feet looking at a T-tail? Surefires are way over rated and overpriced for what you get. If they were cheaper, they'd be good lights but for their price they should be top dog and they're not. I believe the throw on the surefire is better but not by much and the area covered is not really usable compared to the light mine gives me.


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## angelofwar (May 3, 2011)

Ask Bin Laden ...

I'm sure if he was still alive, he'd say "Surefire"...LOL!

Such as the M910x and 66x seen here...







And another M910 seen here...






:devil:


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## jellydonut (May 3, 2011)

Beatkeeper120 said:


> does Polarion have a contract?


 Polarion Night Reapers are used as crew-served weapon lights along with the SF Hellfighter. I don't think the handhelds are officially adopted in any way.

The Surefire V-series weapon lights (basically the V2 Vampire head adapted to weaponlights) are official issue, along with there probably being a bunch of the older weaponlights still in the system.

If you search FBO for solicitations you'll be able to find anything light-related. You'll just have to know what to look for. Be aware that the military refuses to call a spade a spade. An LED flashlight might be 'illumination, handheld, electronic, diode'. :hahaha:

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...5a1ea0b6269d649467a8f708976&tab=core&_cview=1 Polarion NR
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...b17b130d1d9ed1a756fce6f7be0&tab=core&_cview=1 SF HF
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...a4511c95cf643e764abeb957988&tab=core&_cview=1 SF HF again


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## mrlysle (May 3, 2011)

angelofwar said:


> Ask Bin Laden ...
> 
> I'm sure if he was still alive, he'd say "Surefire"...LOL!


 
ROFL!!!!! That's funny right there! I don't care who you are. Thanks funny right there!


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## ARA (May 3, 2011)

Novatacs are being used as weapons lights as well.


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## gorn (May 3, 2011)

Energizer Hard Case pivoting head lights
LaserBrite 2 light sticks


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## Potato42 (May 3, 2011)

I know I came upon a detailed document stating the particulars by which flashlights to be used by armed services had to be certified. I believe there was also a list of many flashlights that complied with this certification (all done by the military). Of course now, I can't find it. If someone comes up with the document or list that would be helpful. I'll keep looking.


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## angelofwar (May 3, 2011)

Potato42 said:


> I know I came upon a detailed document stating the particulars by which flashlights to be used by armed services had to be certified. I believe there was also a list of many flashlights that complied with this certification (all done by the military). Of course now, I can't find it. If someone comes up with the document or list that would be helpful. I'll keep looking.


 
Ther's so many different requirments for different units across the branches, that there really isn't a set standard for any branhc of the military. There are "certified soldier" lights, done by the evaluators at peonet.army.mil. (Soldier Systems). For the Air Force, they don't really care as far as personal lights. "Tactical" Army units, it's left up to the units. They're a little more stingent with weaponlights (field repairable, etc.), which is why SF made the cut in the past.


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## LEDninja (May 3, 2011)

The armies of all the NATO countries use a common ordering database. Everything ordered through the purchasing department is ordered using the NATO Stock Number or NSN. So a simple way of finding out if a product is used by the military is ask if it has a NSN number.

Here is Surefire's list:
http://www.surefire.com/nsn_ordering

Here is Maglite's list:
http://www.maglite.com/publicsafety_mil_nsn.asp

Fulton's page:
http://www.fultonindoh.com/images/documents/Government&MilitaryLightsBrochure.pdf

Streamlights with NSN is listed on page 50 of this PDF:
http://www.streamlight.com/Documents/rpl/10_RPL_std.pdf


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## DivineStrike (May 4, 2011)

True, that is the common way to order things officially. But each gov't agency, I'm sure, has a Gov't charge card to use, where they can easily purchase something from a store. Now there are limits as to how much you can spend before there has to be a contract written. At least for the AF, don't know specifically about the other branches, but I'm sure they have Gov't charge cards as well and a limit.


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## radioactive_man (May 4, 2011)

Potato42 said:


> I know I came upon a detailed document stating the particulars by which flashlights to be used by armed services had to be certified. I believe there was also a list of many flashlights that complied with this certification (all done by the military). Of course now, I can't find it. If someone comes up with the document or list that would be helpful. I'll keep looking.


 
This? https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=0546be6bf7dd14626279d6a3840a965c&tab=core&_cview=0&cck=1&au=&ck=


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## the.Mtn.Man (May 4, 2011)

DivineStrike said:


> Surefires are way over rated and overpriced for what you get.


Some folks around here would burn you at the stake if they heard you saying that. 

But I do see your point. I think Surefires are more reknowned for their build quality, reliability, and topnotch customer support than necessarily for the quality of the light they put out (which by all accounts is fairly average considering the price).


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## Rando (May 4, 2011)

Granted, I've been out for 8 years, but when I was in the only light I was ever issued was the standard OD 2-D incan right-angle light. We were allowed to use basically whatever we wanted, as long as it had a red filter and wasn't bright enough to give away your position (kind of a judgement call). I always carried a black 2D Maglite with red filter.


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## Potato42 (May 4, 2011)

radioactive_man said:


> This? https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...9d6a3840a965c&tab=core&_cview=0&cck=1&au=&ck=


 
The "Approved Family of Flashlights List"! That's it! I came upon the document by which the standards they were measured was spelled out. From what I remember it's a voluntary thing, so unless the company submits a flashlight and fills out the proper forms in triplicate etc then it wont be tested and wont make "the list".


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## radioactive_man (May 4, 2011)

Potato42 said:


> The "Approved Family of Flashlights List"! That's it! I came upon the document by which the standards they were measured was spelled out. From what I remember it's a voluntary thing, so unless the company submits a flashlight and fills out the proper forms in triplicate etc then it wont be tested and wont make "the list".


 
The test procedure is specified here: https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=26b986dc310d19f4f2b91be7f114c388&_cview=0

Quoted from the site: "Please submit a total of 48 flashlights to be retained by PM-CIE along with instructions to the following address by 30 July 2008: [snipped]"

They don't do all the testing on the same light, and only 4 out of 5 are required to pass each environmental test. Weak.


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## DivineStrike (May 4, 2011)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> Some folks around here would burn you at the stake if they heard you saying that.
> 
> But I do see your point. I think Surefires are more reknowned for their build quality, reliability, and topnotch customer support than necessarily for the quality of the light they put out (which by all accounts is fairly average considering the price).


 
yea true, but what good is reliability if you can only use the light for an hour, 2 at best with most of their lights and have to carry around a bunch of extra batteries? I understand the use for it as a weapon light and is probably worth the money then if you depend on it like that. Reliability/durability (especially if you've gotta hit the deck and survive some good knocks) matter's more there than using it as a search or insp light. And duration of the battery matters less as well seeing as you're only using it momentarily to clear a room etc...having said all that though, I'm really only against having surefire as my primary/first good light. 

Later down the road when I find my self wanting a light i know will last forever and will work, incase I ever absolutely need a light to work, then I'll buy one. Just not going to spend the money on something I don't need. The Olight will due the job just fine and better for my needs.


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## Roger999 (May 5, 2011)

I remember seeing a few photos of US Army Soldiers with the M952V on their weapons on MP.net



DivineStrike said:


> yea true, but what good is reliability if you can only use the light for an hour, 2 at best with most of their lights and have to carry around a bunch of extra batteries?


 E2L runs at 6hours with 60 lumens, 100hours on low. Most of the lights with 2hours runtime are designed for tactical use which is very short bursts for short periods of time, if you are going to be using light for longer than an hour in the night you you would probably be using Night vision goggles or the issued Mark I Moonbeam.


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## DivineStrike (May 5, 2011)

Roger999 said:


> I remember seeing a few photos of US Army Soldiers with the M952V on their weapons on MP.net
> 
> 
> E2L runs at 6hours with 60 lumens, 100hours on low. Most of the lights with 2hours runtime are designed for tactical use which is very short bursts for short periods of time, if you are going to be using light for longer than an hour in the night you you would probably be using Night vision goggles or the issued Mark I Moonbeam.




you assume all military are in the field carrying a weapon. Seems to be the consensus of this thread. There are other uses for these lights than being on the end of a weapon. 60 lumens should be adequate, but from my experiences with 60 lum surefires, maybe alittle more, it doesn't shine well enough for acft maintenance inspections. Especially when other lights are "better" for what the user needs and can be had for much less. The E2 line and the g2 lines are fairley decently priced compared to some of the others, it's not as bad. Most are under $200 and under 100, which I think is reasonable for the light if your using a surefire for what it's designed for...which is being a combat light; G2 lines, on paper, seem to be ok for a general use. 

IMO and partial fact...the military primarily uses Surefires for combat uses primarily. Reason being, American made and their reputation for being high quality and durable. The same reasons why I will probably buy one in the future. Just not now, like i said better choices for the $ right now. Even when/if I do find myself wanting a surefire, it'll probably never be my primary light.

60 lumens for six hours isn't that great. the olight that I'm waiting on is rated 340 for 3-4hrs, 115 for 12 hrs (almost double power and duration) then for 600hrs on low (5lm). Granted you will probably never see that 600hr mark, as it'll never stay on that level for ever unless your lost and are only going to use it for navigating/maps or whatever. But still paper vs paper most surefires are half the light for double/triple the price. And for the equivelent price a third or quarter of the light.

Again IMO for surefires to be sold at the level they are they need to up the light output/duration. They don't need to be the level at which other brands are because they have excellent quality/durability/reputation etc. But adding an hour of extra light for 200 lumens isn't much to ask from such a quality light. 

and maybe i'm not giving Surefire enough credit on output because I haven't used any of their lights over 100 lumens, but at those levels it's definitely not enough.


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## Roger999 (May 5, 2011)

DivineStrike said:


> 60 lumens for six hours isn't that great. the olight that I'm waiting on is rated 340 for 3-4hrs, 115 for 12 hrs (almost double power and duration) then for 600hrs on low (5lm). Granted you will probably never see that 600hr mark, as it'll never stay on that level for ever unless your lost and are only going to use it for navigating/maps or whatever. But still paper vs paper most surefires are half the light for double/triple the price. And for the equivelent price a third or quarter of the light.


 The M20 gives 2 hours from 2X CR123A cells, not the advertised 4 hours. Most manufacturers over rate output, Surefire often under rates it.


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## DivineStrike (May 6, 2011)

Good thing they don't advertise the m20 using cr123's then. They advertise using the 18650 2500mah which is advertised....but most reviews i've seen on the m20 is 3+ hrs for ex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYiBvkbfx6A&feature=related. granted i'm sure it's not "max" output but it's still runnin. Now it'd be great if the surefires were designed to be used with the same rechargeable battery. and in my experiences with surefires, i've gotten no where near 2hrs life.

Tell ya what tho, actually saw a review for the S model of my light that uses pwm instead of current. And i had no idea what it meant till i saw the vid...may have to return it for the non S model  we'll see when i get it though i guess.


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## Roger999 (May 6, 2011)

DivineStrike said:


> and in my experiences with surefires, i've gotten no where near 2hrs life.


 I'm guessing your experience with Surefires have been the incandescent lights? If so, they don't claim 2hours runtime on those.


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## DivineStrike (May 6, 2011)

i've barely used the incan's and yes they are definitely on the very low end of duration. Really don't understand why people buy a light that last 20 min??? but the light we got rid of at our shop and switched to a $30 AA Pelican 2360 light is the u2 Ultra, yes it has other modes which allow it to last longer but the only mode we use is max, the 100 lumens (this light at it's price range should at least be over 200lum) on this light is barely enough to inspect an airplane with an almost 60ft t-tail, and it's barely enough light to see stuff under the wing in detail. Granted this isn't really what surefire designed the light for and the pelican is rly maybe minimally better if at all and it's runtime is probably the same except it takes AA's. For the $ the pelicans are a better deal in this instance (I personally would not have chosen them, would have spent a little more for something better) primary reason they chose them was cost...cheaper light and cheaper batteries for about the same package.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (May 7, 2011)

> Really don't understand why people buy a light that last 20 min??? but the light we got rid of at our shop and switched to a $30 AA Pelican 2360 light is the u2 Ultra, yes it has other modes which allow it to last longer but the only mode we use is max, the 100 lumens (this light at it's price range should at least be over 200lum) on this light is barely enough to inspect an airplane with an almost 60ft t-tail, and it's barely enough light to see stuff under the wing in detail.


 
I feel your pain. The new generation of 200 lumen plus LED lights really make a difference when doing an external inspection of a large aircraft at night. Sure, in the past we used dimmer Maglites with those free D-cell batteries but times have changed. I do see more on an aircraft with a brighter light. Popped rivets, hydraulic seepage, frost starting to form, a missing static wick, etc.

The U2 is a great light, I have several, but as you point out it is easily outperformed at the high end in runtime and brightness by inexpensive more modern LED designs. Perhaps the U2's were ordered for your shop as a legacy of the DARPA light program years ago.

Check out the 'new' Surefire G2X and 6PX lights. They are definitely in the 200+ lumen class and have a useful low level setting.

As you know, don't put your name on the light in case you should lose it and FOD that $11 million engine.

And, thanks for wearing our nation's uniform!:thumbsup:


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## yowzer (May 7, 2011)

DivineStrike said:


> We have the Surefire U2 Ultra's here and they suck for what we do. I don't know how it's rated at 100 lumens and $300. Just rediculous. I know I bring up my headlamp alot in discussion but why does a 4 year old $45 Petzl XP Head lamp with only 40(60 with turbo) lumens out shine this thing at 60 feet looking at a T-tail?


 
There's also the issue of using the right tool for the job. If you used an E2DL or LX2 or E1B instead of the U2, I doubt you'd be saying it wasn't throwing enough for your needs.


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## DivineStrike (May 7, 2011)

Don't know when they got them, maybe a few years ago. I was here a few ago and they were talking about getting some surefires, thought it was cool then because all we had were some dewalt lights, which are big, and mag lights...although the dewalts actually worked better. Those may have even come and gone as these, I think they were sayin, are actually semi recent. But anyhow, no worries on FOD'ing out any of those engines, as the lights they provide suffice plenty for inspecting those. and well for a flashlight to come anywhere near a running engine, it wouldn't be hard to figure out who it was that was near by  only thing "Fod'ing" out our engines now are birds, even then they still run, just have some damage sometimes.

And, Thank You


Yowzer: Agreed, but to me it seems foolish to think just because it has the surefire name, it must be the best (which i think most people here know better, because they do the research for the right tool...most other people probably don't). which is clearly what a lot of people think when they go to buy a surefire without really understanding what they are supposed to be used for. If i were to have been the one responsible for ordering a new light and the shop lead wanted the best surefire (as the military does like buying them) for way under $300. i would have gotten the e2dl, 6px pro or other equivalent 200lum light with a low out put mode, whether that would have fixed the duration issue or not, I wouldn't know. but if i were to buy them I'd definitely do the research first before hand.


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