# Anyone have the "G&P A.I. STROBE Switch" for Surefires?



## Omega Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Saw this on ebay after reading lexina's account of the King's Arm extender, sold by the same outfit, Asia Airsoft Supplier.
Was wondering if anyone has this switch, and how they liked it? Seems a reasonable risk at $14, and I know _I'm_ curious to see what a 200 lumen strobe looks like...


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## AW (Apr 6, 2006)

I bought one the other day and found out it works only on incan bulbs. I have no idea how long the bulb can survive when in strobing mode :candle:


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## Omega Man (Apr 6, 2006)

AH, I didn't think of that part! I'm used to thinking in terms of LED, with no fragile filaments. Thanks AW. This thing may not be the best toy afterall.


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## Phaserburn (Apr 6, 2006)

Just fyi, Streamlight sells a strobe tailcap for it's SL-20X. Mine is running a WA1160 in overdrive; the strobe on this 500 lumen doozie is quite attention getting. It makes strobing lux III leds look ridiculous.


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## igabo (Apr 8, 2006)

How fast do these "strobe tailcaps" strobe with incan?


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## TNRonin (Mar 18, 2007)

That sux, the ebay ad says it will work with LED. I'm upgrading all my SF lights (that I can) to the Cree ASAP.


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## deeplog (Mar 20, 2007)

G&P T6/T9 LED and Xenon series of flashlights comes with these switches. They do work well on G&P LED flashlights anyway. They fit surefire bodies, but strobing an incan bulb is not my thing really.


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## depusm12 (Mar 20, 2007)

Phaserburn said:


> Just fyi, Streamlight sells a strobe tailcap for it's SL-20X. Mine is running a WA1160 in overdrive; the strobe on this 500 lumen doozie is quite attention getting. It makes strobing lux III leds look ridiculous.


 
I have one as well running a WA1111 on a 7.2 volt MadMaxabeam battery pack.
Works great with a traffic cone for directing traffic/getting motorist attention.


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## DaFABRICATA (Mar 20, 2007)

I have one that I have used on my 6P/9P,with Cree LED Drop-in,L5 and KL3 as well as my M3T with Arcmania Turbohead Module, and it works just fine! I tied it on the 6P with a P60 bulb and thought it was unimpressive. With all the above listed lights, I really like this tailcap...and for the price, I just had to at least try it!!! My friend who seems to love talkin sh!t about my flashlights fell victim of the G&P Strobe tailcap! He was decending the stairs with me behind him, I held the button down on the 6P loaded with the Cree drop-in module and G&P Strobe Tailcap.......BAM.....BANG BOOM BOOM BOOM..... WHAM!!! Down the stairs he went.(only about 3-4 stairs)
I thought he was crying and felt bad for a second UNTIL he rolled over Laughing his A$$ OFF!!! "You finally got me...I guess its payback for all the crap I give you about your lights" he said. Later that night he was hitting me up for what light and accessories to get. HHmmmm.....which one did he choose? 6P with G&P tactical bezel and tailcap!!! I do wish however the strobe (Hz) was somehow adjustable...strobes a little to fast to be truelly effective, but is still disorianting. There is also a bit of a noticable very fast flicker with some lights while in the "Constant ON" mode. Not very noticable. I was told it happens because of the PWM circuitry. 
Is it bad to use on bulbs? Would it shorten the lifespan of the bulb?
Is there any reason it would be bad to use for LEDs? 

ANYWAY.....for the price, I think you'd like it. If not sell it!


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## chanamasala (Feb 4, 2008)

Does this have momentary on?


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## Elton (Jun 23, 2008)

i know this thread is kinda old but i was thinking about getting one for my surefire are they any good ?


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## Monocrom (Jun 23, 2008)

Elton said:


> i know this thread is kinda old but i was thinking about getting one for my surefire are they any good ?


 
Not for daily use on an EDC light. The G&P tailcap will fit onto your Surefire light, and it definitely gives you a strobe feature; a very fast strobe though.

The problem is, the tailcap drains the cells in your light; even if your light is turned off. And it's not a slow drain either. That makes the tailcap less than useless for many applications. Bought mine to use on a Surefire 6P that gets extremely little use. (Going to use the 6P tailcap on a project light. The 6P is going to need a tailcap, so I got the one from G&P. My 6P will mostly stay stored without cells in it).


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## Elton (Jun 23, 2008)

ahh thats not good ill go with a clicky tail cap or does the MCclicky switch from light hound work with the stock tail cap ?


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## Monocrom (Jun 23, 2008)

Elton said:


> ahh thats not good ill go with a clicky tail cap or does the MCclicky switch from light hound work with the stock tail cap ?


 
The McClicky should work. If there's a problem, Lighthound will make it right.

For reliability reasons, I prefer to keep my Surefires mainly stock. OpticsHQ sells Surefire clickies.


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## abuhannibal (Jun 24, 2008)

I have one of these - haven't yet experimented to see if it drains the battery; one could always store the light with the tailcap a little unscrewed, I guess. However, I did find that with several LED drop-ins (Solarforce R2, DX 11836) that it flickers unacceptably. It does work fine with my Malkoff M60, but that one is dedicated to a different light. So for now mine is in the spare parts drawer.


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## Monocrom (Jun 24, 2008)

abuhannibal said:


> I have one of these - haven't yet experimented to see if it drains the battery; one could always store the light with the tailcap a little unscrewed, I guess. However, I did find that with several LED drop-ins (Solarforce R2, DX 11836) that it flickers unacceptably. It does work fine with my Malkoff M60, but that one is dedicated to a different light. So for now mine is in the spare parts drawer.


 
That's why I bought mine. I needed a spare tailcap switch that would work on my Surefire lights, but I didn't want to pay for an SF z49 clickie. The G&P model will fit on a 6P and similar SF models, and it's cheap.

BTW, I tried out the G&P tailcap on my Solarforce L2 host with the R2 drop-in. Mine didn't flicker, I just got a fast strobe.


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## flashy bazook (Jun 28, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> That's why I bought mine. I needed a spare tailcap switch that would work on my Surefire lights, but I didn't want to pay for an SF z49 clickie. The G&P model will fit on a 6P and similar SF models, and it's cheap.


 
Quick question - is there a reason to prefer the Z49 over the Z59?


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## Monocrom (Jun 28, 2008)

flashy bazook said:


> Quick question - is there a reason to prefer the Z49 over the Z59?


 
It's the difference between those who prefer a flush tailcap switch vs. a protruding one. Personal preference.


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## matrixshaman (Jun 28, 2008)

I've got a G&P strobe tailcap for the 6P from Lighthound and it works great with the LED drop ins that have come out in the last 6 months.


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## abuhannibal (Jul 1, 2008)

Monocrom,

I find that it flickers much less severely with my Solarforce r2 drop-in than it does with the DX. Conceivably someone would find it acceptable with the Solarforce; it's usable but the flicker is noticeable and it bothers me some. it is, as I mentioned, perfectly OK with the Malkoff, for whatever reason. YMMV of course.


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## MrGman (Jul 1, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Not for daily use on an EDC light. The G&P tailcap will fit onto your Surefire light, and it definitely gives you a strobe feature; a very fast strobe though.
> 
> The problem is, the tailcap drains the cells in your light; even if your light is turned off. And it's not a slow drain either. That makes the tailcap less than useless for many applications. Bought mine to use on a Surefire 6P that gets extremely little use. (Going to use the 6P tailcap on a project light. The 6P is going to need a tailcap, so I got the one from G&P. My 6P will mostly stay stored without cells in it).


 
I tested mine in the lab this morning based on your report here. Mine draws no more than 5 micro amps at 9VDC of the proper polarity in the off state. 5 micro amps is next to nothing. 0.000005 amps. Of course that is a sample base of 1 part. I find that it works best with fully charged batteries 6V minimum to 9V and higher current draw LED or Xenon lamp modules. It was recommended to not use it with Xenon Lamps, but it operates them correctly. Whether or not the lamp will wear out the filament faster because of the pulsing current is another question, but it does function. As it gets older and more use I will check it again to see if that leakage current level changes.


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## Monocrom (Jul 1, 2008)

After about a week or so, two CR123 cells will either be dead, or close to it.


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## MrGman (Jul 2, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> After about a week or so, two CR123 cells will either be dead, or close to it.


 
If you can measure the resistance of your tailcap on a ohmmeter that would be a good start. I used a Curve Tracer to get my up to 9V, but I am guessing you don't have one of those available. Make sure the center spring lead is negative for the test.


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## Monocrom (Jul 2, 2008)

MrGman said:


> If you can measure the resistance of your tailcap on a ohmmeter that would be a good start. I used a Curve Tracer to get my up to 9V, but I am guessing you don't have one of those available. Make sure the center spring lead is negative for the test.


 
Testing a lot less scientific.... Take two fresh CR123 cells. Pop them into a Surefire light. Screw the G&P tailcap onto the light. Leave the light alone. Check it once in awhile. Repeat test a couple of more times with two fresh CR123 cells, each time. If the cells keep dying at the same rate (same # of days), you get a good idea of how fast the tailcap drains the cells.


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## MrGman (Jul 3, 2008)

I take it you don't have a digital multimeter? A 10 second reading would help a lot more than several weeks worth of wait and see. I measured mine and I know for sure what it does but yours could be vastly different. 

Plus you have me wondering if pressure against the spring is acting like pressing it half way on. Mine has a definite click activation threshold, where its not on until after the click over "breaking" point. Again its new and a sample base of one.


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## Monocrom (Jul 3, 2008)

True, a multimeter would help a lot. But the "wait & see" method produces a more compelling result. Not as scientific, takes longer, cost of several CR123 cells.... But compelling. 

Not sure what you mean by pressure against the spring. My G&P tailcap works the same as your's. With the unscientific method I described, you only put pressure on the tailcap switch every now & then, to test if the light will still turn on.

Others have posted, on other threads, of having left the G&P tailcap on their lights for weeks at a time. Barely using their lights. Sometimes with brand new cells in the lights. And the tailcap still drains the batteries after time has gone by. (If the Search feature wasn't disabled, I might have better luck finding those posts).


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## pertinax (Jul 3, 2008)

I just bought one of these things this week-- but there seems to be no "on" mode-- just strobe. That's a disappointment. Am I doing something wrong? It didn't come with directions.

Running a 6P with a Malkoff drop-in, and it blinks like crazy (it blinks the P61 lamp pretty good too!). The strobe switch seems to just be momentary; there's no "click".

Any thoughts?


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## abuhannibal (Jul 3, 2008)

Pertinax,

The strobe mode is momentary but it should click to stay on - sounds like maybe you have a bad one, or something is keeping the clickie from working correctly.. 

Funny that mine ONLY works without flickering with the Malkoff; it flickers with everything else. Makes one wonder if perhaps there are different versions/revisions. But all in all I have found the thing to be too problematic to be worth playing with. According to Solarforce's web site they now have an equivalent product, so I will order that one when I see it for sale.


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## pertinax (Jul 3, 2008)

I guess I'll contact Lighthound-- maybe there are different versions. Thanks!


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## MrGman (Jul 3, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> True, a multimeter would help a lot. But the "wait & see" method produces a more compelling result. Not as scientific, takes longer, cost of several CR123 cells.... But compelling.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by pressure against the spring. My G&P tailcap works the same as your's. With the unscientific method I described, you only put pressure on the tailcap switch every now & then, to test if the light will still turn on.
> 
> Others have posted, on other threads, of having left the G&P tailcap on their lights for weeks at a time. Barely using their lights. Sometimes with brand new cells in the lights. And the tailcap still drains the batteries after time has gone by. (If the Search feature wasn't disabled, I might have better luck finding those posts).


 

I have to disagree that your results are more compelling because they don't tell me that the failure mode is really in the tailcap. If you put an ohmmeter on the tail cap and in the off mode yours measured say 10,000 ohms insted of infinity or 500,000 ohms like mine did, I would say you have a definite problem. If it read 1000 ohms I would say send the dang thing back right then and there and it would be over. But with your method, I don't know that you don't have a lot of weak or bad batteries, or a bad head, or something wrong inside your flashlight tube bypassing the switch altogether and causing a leakage path. Its just too much speculation.

In theory you should be able to take your flashlight head off, get some low voltage incandescent bulb, connect one end to the positive terminal of a battery and the other end to the conductive part of the flashlight tube body and see if you get any light at all. If it glows dimly then your tube/rear AI type switch is providing a leakage path. If it does not glow at all then it makes me wonder. I would use like a 2.4V lamp not one for 6 volts because the conductivitywould not be the same as the switch simply being on. If you had a current meter I would say put that in series with the lamp and see if you measure any current at all. If it was drawing say 1 milli amp, may not be enough to light the lamp but I could see it slowly killing your batteries then get rid of it.

If you have not already tried baking out this tail cap in a low heat of say 130 F (not C) and then retesting it, I would do that. Never know if moisture or sweat or something got in there.


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## Monocrom (Jul 3, 2008)

No speculation, really.

Everything else about my unscientific method is reliable. My Surefire lights, as stock, have no issues. I've used them long enough to come to that conclusion. It's not the head, no contact issues, cells can be checked with a battery meter to confirm that they are not depleted. The only variable is the G&P tailcap. If there's a battery drain when the light is off, and it keeps happening at the same rate after a handful of tests; safe to say that the tailcap is the issue. 

On an EDC light, I'd never use the G&P model. For a special event, like airsoft, I can see it having some value.


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## flange938 (Jul 3, 2008)

I found the battery drain to be a dealbreaker for me and have stopped using this swich.:shakehead


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## Solscud007 (Jul 3, 2008)

for those that have used this with their SF 6P, how is the strobe in comparison to the Blackhawk gladius?

Do you think there would be any issues to strobing a SF G2Z with P60L bulb? with the G&P strobe cap?


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## MrGman (Jul 5, 2008)

I have received a second AI cap and its the same as the first. I have put it on a flashlight and put a current meter directly in series with the battery and the flashlight case with the head off. So the LED head is not in the way of current draw should there be leakage current from the switch through the batteries. I measured 1 micro Amp for both. I went from 8.4V down to 4V roughly using 2 17500 batteries down to one.

I then tried putting the ammeter in series with the entire light by having the head off and going from battery to LED and from LED through ammeter back to flashlight case with alligator clips with the switch off. Worst case reading was 2uA. I now have 2 samples to go by. I turned the light on briefly and then let it shut of to see if it would linger in current draw, nothing unusual. Current flow stopped faster than the meter's 1 second update rate.

I cannot see how drawing even 2 micro amps could drain batteries in a couple of weeks. So it is very possible that yours has gone bad in a specific way and is not reflective of how they work normally. But I shall study mine further.


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## Solscud007 (Jul 5, 2008)

How rapid is the strobe?

Here is a video of the gladius, for those who havent seen one in action, for comparison. thanks
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jWXD6ovXchs


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## MrGman (Jul 5, 2008)

It is hard to say. I think it varies a little based on voltage and the current draw for each module. The lower current draw modules just don't appear to turn fully on and off and its really not that impressive. The Malkoff 60F seems to have more of a noticeable pronounced on/off to the flicker if that makes sense.

For those who don't already know. The steady state on mode is accomplished by pressing it once and releasing it completely right away, must be released in under 1 second. Then it will stay on. If you hold it on for more than 1 second it goes into strobe for as long as you hold it down.

I am not impressed with these units. With certain modules and running 8.4V from 2 17500 batteries it flickers when it should be steady state on. Not a full flicker just enough to let you know its not running steady. It seems to prefer to work with higher current draw units, plain and simple. Using 2 3V primaries does not help those modules run better. 

I am not impressed with these at all, and regardless as to whether or not they drain the batteries (which I have not seen on mine yet beyond 2 uA), I cannot recommend these things.


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## Teh (Jul 9, 2008)

Does it function as a forward switch of reverse switch?
Can you make it strobe without a full on click?


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## MrGman (Jul 10, 2008)

Its backassward in all aspects. It comes on for steady state mode if you quickly press on it and let it go. So that will turn it on and it will stay on. If you hold it too long it goes into strobe mode. It has to be clicked to go on, there is no half way in non click way to turn it on, but it still comes one with the forward click motion part of the stroke and not on the reverse release motion of the switch.

So when you do a quick press that would be momentary for a surefire, you turn this one on steady state. When you hold it on, you get strobe. 

I actually don't mind this and like the way it works okay now that I understand it, but its different in real function than any momentary on forward switch or reverse clicky.


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## pertinax (Jul 10, 2008)

My measurements indicate the current drain will discharge a set of 18650 batteries in "only" 18 years. This is not a dealbreaker for me. On your planet, YMMV.


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## Monocrom (Jul 11, 2008)

pertinax said:


> My measurements indicate the current drain will discharge a set of 18650 batteries in "only" 18 years. This is not a dealbreaker for me. On your planet, YMMV.


 
My planet would be Earth. Have no clue how you came up with 18 years. My unscientific testing, and posts from other CPFers in other threads, has the drain closer to a couple of weeks. 

But those results are usually with lights that are 2xCR123 based. So with a set of 18650s, I guess it would take twice as long. 

18 years?? 

I'll admit to being curious. How did you arrive at that number?


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## abuhannibal (Jul 11, 2008)

Pertinax and Monocrom,

Some of the observations posted here have led me to wonder whether there may be different revisions of this product floating around, which perhaps behave differently with regard to flickering, battery drain, etc. This is just conjecture on my part, so take it FWIW. I haven't tried a battery drain test on mine; can't say I am inclined to waste the time, given that I can't really use the thing for other reasons (flicker.) But if I find myself with nothing to do maybe I'll set it up and see what happens.


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## pertinax (Jul 11, 2008)

1.5 uA times 7.4 volts equals .1 mW (rounded). 2200mAH times 2 batts, times 3.7 times 3600 = 58608 Joules. 58608J / .0001W/S = 586,080,000 seconds. Which is 18 and a half years. With 123's, about half that.

It's certainly possible that some tailcaps draw more than others-- the numbers above are based on the measured draw of my sample of one.


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## MrGman (Jul 12, 2008)

That is some seriously strange math. If the 2 batteries are in series the ampere hour rating would be the same for any given current draw not doubled. But besides that, isn't the run time longevity simply the ampere hours rating divided by actual current draw to give time and the voltage drop is irrelevant???

So for instance a 2000mAH rating battery with 200mA draw is going to last 10 hours. If it only drew 20mA it would last 100 hours, if it drew 2 mA it would last 1000 hours and so on. Reduction in time for high current draws and heat related issues not relevant to this. So how is it you are doing all that complicated math and figuring out watts and watt seconds and joules when the answer is right in front of you? Ampere hours divided by amperes gives the hours. Except for running batteries at very high current draw, I have always found this to be true empirically without calculating watt-seconds and coloumbs etc. 


On a totally separate note, regardless of the standby or "leakage" current of this thing. I am not recommending for any one to buy it on the grounds that its simply doesn't function all that well.

Depending on the current draw of the light module and I am guessing the type of regulation circuit it has, as well as voltage drop, the performance varies. Some lights still flicker in what should be the steady state on mode. This alone is aggrevating and a reason to not want to use it right there. Some modules may not come up to full brightness in the steady state on mode. It seems to like heavy current draw lights with 8V.


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## fxstsb (Jul 13, 2008)

flange938 said:


> I found the battery drain to be a dealbreaker for me and have stopped using this swich.:shakehead



Same here.


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## runtime (Jan 24, 2009)

Mine just quit working after about a year so I went back to the old tried & true twisty. You know, the one that came on the old round body 6P.:nana:


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## shao.fu.tzer (Apr 18, 2011)

I know this is an old thread but I picked one up just because I was curious.... The threads on mine are anodized so it acts like a lockout tailcap. If you just unscrew it a few twists, you don't have to worry about the parasitic drain. I think it's pretty cool... I wish it had momentary on... Like push half-way for momentary on or all the way for strobe... The strobe is crazy with my Manafont XM-L drop in... very disorienting... and no, my switch didn't burn up under the current... I've used it quite a bit with an XM-L dropin with no apparent ill effect, but if ever does fry, I only spent $10 on it... So hopefully I'll get $10 worth of fun out of it!

Shao


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## Chrontius (Apr 20, 2011)

Anybody know if these make an effective softstart as I've heard anecdotally around here? I'll pick one up if they do.


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## shao.fu.tzer (Apr 21, 2011)

Chrontius said:


> Anybody know if these make an effective softstart as I've heard anecdotally around here? I'll pick one up if they do.


 
I'm sure if you knew how to wire it up, it wouldn't be a problem.. I discovered a problem with this tailcap yesterday. I unlocked it to demonstrate the strobe function to my friend who was visiting and all I had was strobe, the light wouldn't stay on... I unscrewed the cap and found that the retaining ring had worked its way loose. I don't know if everyone's tailcap does this, but on mine, after repeated loosening and tightening of the tailcap, the retaining ring kinda "takes a ride" and backs out a little. I fixed mine with a little loc-tite. The internals looked pretty straightforward... I was thinking of swapping them around with other tailcaps just to check for compatibility... I may post my findings here if there's any interest.


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## Chrontius (Apr 21, 2011)

I'm interested in your results, but I'm not going to encourage you to risk hardware on my behalf. If you're willing, I'd love to hear about it, though.

Not talking about wiring it up - apparently, the switching mechanism includes an unadvertised (and perhaps unintentional) soft-start function.


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## shao.fu.tzer (Apr 22, 2011)

I don't think a company would make an unintentional soft-start... I'll be swamped today trying to get things straightened out with some distributors and Ebay, but after all that is said and done I'll see what I can whip up and post my findings.


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