# Alternative to sky ray 3800lumen



## scheven_architect (Jun 16, 2011)

Hello,

I recently saw this light http://www.manafont.com/product_rev...n-3led-5mode-memory-flashlight-218650-pr-7016 but as to be expected i saw on thai cpf that it only produces 1000 lumen. Now i was wondering if this flashlight would still be worth the bucks or what light would you guys buy for 50$ and why?

greetings!


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## GeoBruin (Jun 16, 2011)

First of all, they say right on the sight that it only draws 1.45 amps on high. That right there should tell you that you're not getting 3000+ lumens. 

In any case, your follow up questions was what to spend you $50.00 on. That of course depends on what you want out of your light. Do you want a large bodied multi-cell light like the one you linked or do you want a more handheld EDC type light? 

If I were you, I wanted an impressively bright light, and I had $50 burning a hole in my pocket, I would go right back there to Manafont and pick up this drop in: http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/ultrafire-cree-t6-3mode-memory-led-dropin-module-42v-max-p-5178

Then I would go over to the Solarforce sales site and order one of these: http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product.php?sname=&s=7&t=FB 

Then just for kicks (and because you still have money to spare) you could go over to Flashlightlens.com and order a 28.6mm UCL lens. 

When the pieces arrive, you just screw them all together, throw in a good battery and you'll be pushing 1000 lumens from a rock solid light that will fit in your pocket. 

Cheers!


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## tre (Jun 16, 2011)

Virus/Malware alert.......my anti virus software goes nuts when I try to click any of those links to manafont.com


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## GeoBruin (Jun 16, 2011)

Sorry about that. I can't say I'm surprised but I can assure you that the links are not harmful. If an moderator so requests, I will remove my links.


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## 2100 (Jun 16, 2011)

They are not harmful. My office's Trendmicro also go nuts. I'm in IT btw.


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## scheven_architect (Jun 16, 2011)

GeoBruin said:


> First of all, they say right on the sight that it only draws 1.45 amps on high. That right there should tell you that you're not getting 3000+ lumens.
> 
> In any case, your follow up questions was what to spend you $50.00 on. That of course depends on what you want out of your light. Do you want a large bodied multi-cell light like the one you linked or do you want a more handheld EDC type light?
> 
> ...



TY  What batteries do you think i should use then? I suppose as the led can handle only 4,2 volt i can only use 1 battery? 
Someone commented the 18650 battery didn't gave the result he expected.
THis body allows me to use more than 1 battery i suppose? But as i said, i tihknk with 4,2v max, 1 battery is the absolute max? http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=FB&s=1&id=157

what's the difference (except for the price ) with this one http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/sst50-5modes-memory-led-dropin-module-p-5519
and how much lumen could i expect of the LED you recommended?

I suppose the UCL lens is a must, otherwise the led will be exposed, or does a flashlight body include a lens?

greetings, appreciate your help!


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## LEDninja (Jun 16, 2011)

Here is the original thread on the Sky Ray 3800lumen.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...found-for-52-shipped...&p=3671272#post3671272

-----

I estimate the light to produce 800-1000 REAL OTF lumens at 1.45A battery draw. That is not bad for a $50 light. (Most '900 lumen' flashlights measure 400-500 lumens so this light is double the single P7/MCE variety.)
Many cheap 1*18650 SST50/XML lights are not voltage regulated. This allows the lower Vf LEDs to run above the rated safety level of most 18650 batteries. 2*18650 lights have to be regulated or the LED will turn blue and die within seconds.
So we have a light with the same output as a Fenix TK35 at half the price.

Forget about looking for a 3000+ lumen in the $50 category for now. You need $300+ for a SST90 for that.

-

Someone else is supposed to measure 2.7A which bumps the output to 1200-1500 lumens. Waiting for some more reports to see if Sky Ray has now upgraded the driver as well.

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GeoBruin said:


> I would go right back there to Manafont and pick up this drop in: ultrafire-cree-t6-3mode-memory-led-dropin-module-42v-max
> 
> Then I would go over to the Solarforce sales site and order one of these:


 The ultrafire is rated 450 lumens elsewhere, probably 250-300 lumens in real life. The P60 drop in does not conduct heat very well to the body and most high power LEDs are underdriven. The CPF custom makers who provide full power drop ins also provide copper strips and instructions on how the user improve the heatsinking.
Most CPF budget advice is to get the Solarforce XML drop in.

-----

At $50 you are bumping into the low end of the quality manufacturers.

Quark MiNi AA², R5 Edition $43.00 - 2AA no need to buy Lithium ion batteries and charger. Its only 5" long - the length of a penlight.
Reviews:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...th-OTF-Lumens-90-Minute-Runtime-and-Beamshots
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-(XP-G-R5)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-and-more!

Xeno E03 XML $30-35 + shipping 200 lumens with 1AA, 300+ with 14500.
Review:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-G-R5-Neutral-White-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS

Zebralight has the SC50 and SC50w (neutral white) on sale for $49.
Review:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...XP-E-Neutral)-1xAA-Reviews-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS


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## scheven_architect (Jun 16, 2011)

LEDninja said:


> I estimate the light to produce 800-1000 REAL OTF lumens at 1.45A battery draw. That is not bad for a $50 light. (Most '900 lumen' flashlights measure 400-500 lumens so this light is double the single P7/MCE variety.)
> Many cheap 1*18650 SST50/XML lights are not voltage regulated. This allows the lower Vf LEDs to run above the rated safety level of most 18650 batteries. 2*18650 lights have to be regulated or the LED will turn blue and die within seconds.
> So we have a light with the same output as a Fenix TK35 at half the price.
> 
> ...


 
Someone on the forum tested this ultrafire led and had a maximum of 1000 lumen dropping to a more steady 800.
Do you know if this led would be able to handle 2 18650 batteries? I suppose 2 batteries are 2x3,7v = more then the allowed 4,2.

greetings!


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## RedForest UK (Jun 16, 2011)

Yes the ultrafire is consistently 800 lumen plus, it runs basically direct drive on high mode, with PWM to regulate the lower ones. It has it's drawbacks, as would be expected for a module that price, but punches well above it's weight performance wise. 

It is also obviously just as easy to heatsink the ultrafire module as any other custom one, but definately read up on how to do it and make sure it's done well before running it on high for any long period.


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## LEDninja (Jun 16, 2011)

scheven_architect said:


> Someone on the forum tested this ultrafire led and had a maximum of 1000 lumen dropping to a more steady 800.
> Do you know if this led would be able to handle 2 18650 batteries? I suppose 2 batteries are 2x3,7v = more then the allowed 4,2.
> 
> greetings!


The old Luxeons, XREs, SSCP4s, SSCP7s, MCE have a Vf (max voltage) of 3.6V to 4V. A Li-ion battery is 4.2V fully charged dropping to 3.6V. So the 2 are matched and the LED can and is direct driven by the battery in the cheaper lights,
The XML is a lower Vf LED. When direct driven it can pull up to 5A but is rated only 3A. Many Li-ion batteries are only 2200 mAH with a safety limit of 4400 mAH less than what direct driving a low Vf LED can do.
- So when you get that Ultrafire you are risking an explosion. Here is a thread where an Ultrafire exploded at 3000mA. Look at the pictures of the damage. For 1000 OTF lumens the Ultrafire is drawing way more than 3000mA.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?280909-Ultrafire-18650-3000mA-exploded
- The P60 module system cannot get rid of the heat fast enough to avoid burning out the LED unless you go to great lengths to improve heatsinking. Prior to the XML Ultrafire had an XPG module with half the power. A member tried building dive lights with them and experienced multiple failures. I found a thread on the modules and a lot other people have problems.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?277805-Help-with-bad-cree-R5-modules
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?270143-Quick-look-at-a-R5-single-mode-drop-in
If UF had so much trouble with a LED with half the power do you trust them to get it right for the XML at least initially.
Learn how to add extra heatsinking between the module and the body before you use the light.

I have added some suggestions to my previous post. They are only 200 lumens but they are 1AA & 2AA much more pocketable than a P60 style light. The 3XML is not pocketable.


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## RedForest UK (Jun 16, 2011)

The ultrafire 3 mode xm-l is a great, reliable, proven drop-in. I have two, both constently draw 3A at start-up (4.2v) dropping to 2.5/6A through most of the discharge and then dropping to around 1.9/2.0A as the cell drops to 3.6v with load removed. With an IMR it overdrives to around 4.5A but with that safe chemistry it isn't a safety issue, the only thing that will die is the led itself.

Seriously, break your stereotypes and actually read up the empirical facts on this one. Or even better, get one. You will be surprised.


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## scheven_architect (Jun 16, 2011)

RedForest UK said:


> The ultrafire 3 mode xm-l is a great, reliable, proven drop-in. I have two, both constently draw 3A at start-up (4.2v) dropping to 2.5/6A through most of the discharge and then dropping to around 1.9/2.0A as the cell drops to 3.6v with load removed. With an IMR it overdrives to around 4.5A but with that safe chemistry it isn't a safety issue, the only thing that will die is the led itself.
> 
> Seriously, break your stereotypes and actually read up the empirical facts on this one. Or even better, get one. You will be surprised.


 
So could I use 2 18650 batteries (2700-3000ma) with this led to have longer light or just 1? 
Because i saw this flashlight body:

http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=FB&s=1&id=157
WHat do these things mean?

The set includes:

Solarforce L2 Black CR123A/18650 Flashlight Body x 1 pc

Solarforce 18650 conventor for L2 L2M L2P Flashlight x 2 pc

My english/knowledge of flashlights is bit too poor to properly understand .

greetings!


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## RedForest UK (Jun 16, 2011)

No, sorry. You definately can not use 2 18650 cells, that will blow the led/circuit in seconds. You need to look for a drop-in rated for 8.4v or more max for that. I would recommend going for a single cell host though, 18650's are powerful enough and buck drivers imperfect efficiency. you will generally get longer runtime with a 1x 18650 light and a spare than if you had them both in a buck regulated light from the start. Of course this depends on the exact driver but with the added benefits of smaller size and much safer use 1x 18650 seems the clever way to go.

It means you get extension tubes too, but you really want the L2p, or the L2x for better heatsinking and long runtime on max at high output without heat issues, both of these are single cell hosts.


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## Glow_Worm (Jun 16, 2011)

scheven_architect said:


> So could I use 2 18650 batteries (2700-3000ma) with this led to have longer light or just 1?


 
No, you can only use a single 18650 with this drop-in. You'll get about 45 mins on High with a single 2200 maH 18650.


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## scheven_architect (Jun 16, 2011)

TY for enlightening me! appreciate it!

Is there a difference between these 2 drop ins except for the number of modes? Because the most expensive one says 650 lumen, while forum users tested the cheaper one i think with 800lumen as a result. And I'm just not used to manufacture ratings that are lower then reality 

http://www.manafont.com/product_inf...3mode-memory-led-dropin-module-42v-max-p-5178
http://www.manafont.com/product_inf...opin-module-extra-op-reflector-42v-max-p-6260

Do flashlight bodies come with a lens or do i have to purchase them separate?
How do i know if my LED will fit in because the LED has a diameter but http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product.php?sname=&s=1&t=FB doesn't show measurements except external ones.

greetings!


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## recDNA (Jun 16, 2011)

I have the Manafont Ultrafire T6 and the Solarforce T6. The Manafont is a little brighter. It draws almost 4 amps on IMR18650 and a little over 3 amps on protected AW18650. The Solarforce just under 3 amps. I see no difference in quality between them. I like them both. No evidence of either type burning out the LED nor exploding in my hand. Isn't that what the PCB is for even if I use a protected cell rather than an IMR?

If the Sky Ray actually pulls 2.7 amps with 2 X 18650 I want one so I hope someone will verify one way or the other.


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## GeoBruin (Jun 16, 2011)

scheven_architect said:


> TY for enlightening me! appreciate it!
> 
> Is there a difference between these 2 drop ins except for the number of modes? Because the most expensive one says 650 lumen, while forum users tested the cheaper one i think with 800lumen as a result. And I'm just not used to manufacture ratings that are lower then reality
> 
> ...


 
There is definitely a difference between the two modules you linked. I have both, and let me tell you, the 5 mode is a piece of crap. It is not nearly as well made. The reflector is cheap, the emitter is off center, there are beam artifacts because of flaws in the LED dome etc. Trust me, the 3 mode is a great emitter for the price, the 5 mode is terrible. 

The Solarforce hosts do come with a lens. The UCL lens that I linked previously is just a higher quality lens that will allow more light transmission. I have heard as much as 10% percent improvement in light transmission vs "conventional" lens. Don't get me wrong, there is no problem with the Solarforce Lens. I have several stock L2s running stock lenses, I was just trying to help you spend your $50.00  

All of the drop-in modules we have discussed here are referred to as P60 modules. They are a standard size and will fit any of a number of hosts designed to take P60 drop-ins. I Recommend the Solarforce (L2p particularly) because they are very good quality for the price and they offer a variety of upgrades to switches, bezels, lenses etc. The L2P is Type III Hard Anodized vs Type II for the L2, L2M, L2i etc. To me, the difference in the ano is significant. It makes the light look and feel like a much more expensive light and the price difference is minimal. 

Regarding batteries, 18650 Li Ion cells are among the most popular batteries used by flashaholics here on the site. They have very high capacity and provide enough current to run very demanding LEDs.


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## 2100 (Jun 22, 2011)

Geobruin, the 5-mode is not crap. But you are correct, i got it and the LED is off-center. That is why Manafont packages it with a OP. With OP its great. Some people actually may want strobe for signalling (cycling, vehicle breakdown? Or as checkpoint usage) and SOS for really dire circumstances use....but usually not flashaholics. If I really need another XM-L P60 I will get the 3-mode.


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## Kindle (Jun 22, 2011)

LEDninja said:


> - So when you get that Ultrafire you are risking an explosion. Here is a thread where an Ultrafire exploded at 3000mA.....


 
.o0 Follows the link to a story about a guy who was using multiple (3x) Li-Ion cells in a high drain application with no sign that he voltage matched...or even checked (despite evidence that at least one cell was possibly damaged)...the cells prior to operation 0o.

I don't think that thread shows what you think it shows.


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## scheven_architect (Jun 22, 2011)

Someone told me manafont itself sells the drop in with body 
http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/ultrafire-c8-xml-t6-3mode-led-flashlight-118650-p-5271

It seems to have a bigger head so i guess it will have more spill than a solarforce?

http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=FB&s=1&id=19

greetings!


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## GeoBruin (Jun 22, 2011)

You say it uses the same drop in yet you say the head is bigger. The drop in includes the emitter, the driver circuit, and the reflector. If you put the same drop in in a different light, you are not going to see a difference in the beam profile at all because you are still using the same reflector. 

Based on the picture, it looks like they are indeed using a bigger reflector in a larger head. They may or may not be using the same driver and LED (though they probably are). Assuming that is the case: The proportion of spill a light has depends on the shape of a particular portion of the reflector, and is not necessarily a function of head size. That said, the size of the hot spot can be considered a function of the head diameter. On that point, you have it backwards. The larger the head, the smaller the hot spot (assuming the reflector is designed in such a way as to make use of the larger head). If I had to guess, I would say the Ultrafire you linked probably out throws the drop in in a solarforce host, again assuming the same LED and driver are used.


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## scheven_architect (Jun 22, 2011)

GeoBruin said:


> You say it uses the same drop in yet you say the head is bigger. The drop in includes the emitter, the driver circuit, and the reflector. If you put the same drop in in a different light, you are not going to see a difference in the beam profile at all because you are still using the same reflector.
> 
> Based on the picture, it looks like they are indeed using a bigger reflector in a larger head. They may or may not be using the same driver and LED (though they probably are). Assuming that is the case: The proportion of spill a light has depends on the shape of a particular portion of the reflector, and is not necessarily a function of head size. That said, the size of the hot spot can be considered a function of the head diameter. On that point, you have it backwards. The larger the head, the smaller the hot spot (assuming the reflector is designed in such a way as to make use of the larger head). If I had to guess, I would say the Ultrafire you linked probably out throws the drop in in a solarforce host, again assuming the same LED and driver are used.



Well it should be the same led and driver i think, but i'll go for the solarforce T6 combo, I like the design more and a similar light i own has a good combo of throw and spill.

Appreciate your help and patience


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## vinhnguyen54 (Jun 25, 2011)

I just got the Skyray 3800. This is the brightest light $52 can buy period! I LOVE IT!


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## raynstacy (Jun 26, 2011)

there seems to be so many lights popping up lately in the $50 range
trustfire X8 I have this and recommend it. can be used with 1 or 2 18650.

skyray stl v2 I've got this one on the way, we'll see how it is.

ultrafire 980L look at the reviews for this light

trustfire X9

Jetbeam BC40 higher end light maybe better build quality.


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## scheven_architect (Jul 4, 2011)

raynstacy said:


> there seems to be so many lights popping up lately in the $50 range
> trustfire X8 I have this and recommend it. can be used with 1 or 2 18650.
> 
> skyray stl v2 I've got this one on the way, we'll see how it is.
> ...


 
Dam  now I'm doubting between the ultrafire 980l and the skyray, because the ultrafire is a lot more compact... 

greetings!


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## ZW99GT (Jul 4, 2011)

Someone incorrectly measure the current on Medium and got the 1.45A. There are already several reports back of over 3A on high, one coming from mine. I got 3.1A from fresh TF flames, and 3.4 from some out of the box hi-max "3000" batts partially discharged. It's the real deal guys. It's not EXACTLY the same as the the old TR-1200 host, but it's similar. The head is slightly longer, and the main bettery tube is thicker throughout.


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## scheven_architect (Jul 4, 2011)

ZW99GT said:


> Someone incorrectly measure the current on Medium and got the 1.45A. There are already several reports back of over 3A on high, one coming from mine. I got 3.1A from fresh TF flames, and 3.4 from some out of the box hi-max "3000" batts partially discharged. It's the real deal guys. It's not EXACTLY the same as the the old TR-1200 host, but it's similar. The head is slightly longer, and the main bettery tube is thicker throughout.


 
So you would advice the sky ray to me?

pro's i see for sky ray are:
- brightest
- properly built
- no heat problems

pro's for ultrafire
- compact

greetings!


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## Norm (Jul 5, 2011)

Moved to Budget Lights - Norm


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## CM2010 (Jul 6, 2011)

GeoBruin said:


> Then just for kicks (and because you still have money to spare) you could go over to Flashlightlens.com and order a 28.6mm UCL lens.



Which 28.6mm will i need for the combo you listed? The 1.83 or the 2.84?


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## 2100 (Jul 7, 2011)

The Sky Ray can be compact as well, The UF-980L which I have is 140mm in length. The Sky Ray can be turned into a 180mm shorty when you use 2 x 18500 IMRs. Bestinone.net is selling a pair for 7.80 shipped with registered mail. The IMRs are tested to be good by mitro (of BLF, i think he uses the same nick here...seen him before). Then run time on pocket rocket shorty mode would be 20 mins con't in high, provided you have enough cooling from host -> air. Bezel dia of the UF-980L is about 15mm smaller only. I have both, seriously the difference is not that much.


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## Zeruel (Jul 7, 2011)

For those who don't like disco modes, I see Sky Ray has a 3 mode version now.


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## EnduringEagle (Jul 7, 2011)

Is Sky Ray a good brand?


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## RedForest UK (Jul 7, 2011)

It is a good budget brand, as in they seem to have quite a few good quality budget lights out. Remember it's much more hit and miss with cheaper lights as the brands printed on the side don't make the lights just order them from an OEM supplier, that's why you see so many similar lights with different names on in this price range. You are much better waiting for reviews to come out from others who have purchased the exact light you're considering buying, and in this case the reviews have all been very good.


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## EnduringEagle (Jul 7, 2011)

RedForest UK said:


> It is a good budget brand, as in they seem to have quite a few good quality budget lights out. Remember it's much more hit and miss with cheaper lights as the brands printed on the side don't make the lights just order them from an OEM supplier, that's why you see so many similar lights with different names on in this price range. You are much better waiting for reviews to come out from others who have purchased the exact light you're considering buying, and in this case the reviews have all been very good.



Good point.


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## energysnake (Aug 4, 2011)

Hello!

This is my first post so hello kindly enlightened

I have a question for the gurus on the lighting
What do you think about this duo:

http://www.manafont.com/product_inf...6-5modes-memory-led-flashlight-3x18650-p-7443 + http://www.lck-led.com/High-Power-L...3-Modes,5.5-12v,3.0A,P7,MCE/product_info.html

The torch of Trustfire is probably the best cooling.

The duo will give advice on 2.8A. I'm going to ride her bike but the power cord from the pack 3S3P

Will this duo 2500 lumens?

I greet and thank you for your reply


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## RedForest UK (Aug 4, 2011)

Yes, that looks great. 

That driver looks a really good deal for under $10; 3A output from up to 12v buck regulated, with constant current modes and low discharge and thermal protection. I would say that set-up could well make 2500 OTF if on a bike with good cool airflow. I'd thermally/electrically pot the innards with thermal compound though, both to aid with heat a little and keep the electronics in place if going off-road or anywhere bumpy.


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## kwarwick (Aug 6, 2011)

energysnake said:


> Hello!
> 
> This is my first post so hello kindly enlightened
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure that driver is designed to power a single LED at 3A not 3xLEDs at 3A. Also notice that maximum input voltage is specified at 12V. If you powered that with a 3S3P pack you could exceed that voltage as 3 Lithium ion batteries at full charge = 12.6V (3 x 4.2V).


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## 2100 (Aug 7, 2011)

energysnake said:


> Hello!
> 
> This is my first post so hello kindly enlightened
> 
> ...



Hi, the light already gives approx 2000 lumens at the emitters, and takes 12.6V input. Why would you want to mod it and get 2500 lumens. You 95% probably cannot tell the difference with your eyes.


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## tzt (Aug 8, 2011)

kwarwick said:


> I'm pretty sure that driver is designed to power a single LED at 3A not 3xLEDs at 3A. Also notice that maximum input voltage is specified at 12V. If you powered that with a 3S3P pack you could exceed that voltage as 3 Lithium ion batteries at full charge = 12.6V (3 x 4.2V).


 
That doesn't even make any sense. These emitters are in series so the voltage don't remotely match 1 emitter.


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## kwarwick (Aug 8, 2011)

tzt said:


> That doesn't even make any sense. These emitters are in series so the voltage don't remotely match 1 emitter.



From looking at the specs for that driver, which is very similar if not the same as one sold by a few other places, I'm pretty sure it doesn't have the power handling capacity to drive 3 XMLs. I imagine it could drive multiple 3W-5W (XPE, XPG) type emitters but likely it would go *poof* trying to handle the power requirements of 3 XMLs at anything near full current.


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