# Rebel in Energizer headlamp at Target?



## JohnR66 (Feb 13, 2008)

Not positive, because I don't know what the rebel looks like in the flesh. This light has a reflector emitter with a LED that is on a yellowish retangle board and a little dome on one end. The die itself is much smaller than the Cree XR-Es I'm used to seeing. Could this be a Rebel LED in this $20 light?


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## mchlwise (Feb 13, 2008)

JohnR66 said:


> Not positive, because I don't know what the rebel looks like in the flesh. This light has a reflector emitter with a LED that is on a yellowish retangle board and a little dome on one end. The die itself is much smaller than the Cree XR-Es I'm used to seeing. Could this be a Rebel LED in this $20 light?



Sounds kinda like. 

I'll take a look next time I'm in Target.


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## mchlwise (Feb 14, 2008)

I had a chance to stop by Target at lunch today. 

The Energizer headlamp I looked at definitely had a Rebel emitter in it. 

It was a 3-mode kind of deal, that appeared to have the Rebel as a primary source, a couple 5mm leds for a "flood" mode, and a couple 5mm red leds for a "night vision" mode. 

Definitely a nifty looking light, but a little bulky for my tastes.


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## Marduke (Feb 14, 2008)

Sure it wasn't the older Lux I model they sell?
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/HD5L33AE.PDF


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## kevinm (Feb 14, 2008)

It's not. I bought one last night. It's bright, but the beam is not so pretty. For the price, it's pretty good. As the claims on the package are the same as the Lux1 model, I'd assume the drive level is the same. it looked like 70-80 lumens.

Kevin


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## degarb (Feb 14, 2008)

Was the beam yellow and ringy? Perhaps due to a rebel in lux1 clothing?

What is the exact model number please?


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## JohnR66 (Feb 14, 2008)

mchlwise, thanks for confirming that it is a Rebel light. It is nice to see Cree XR-Es and Rebels appearing flashlights in the department stores now. Just this week I see XR-Es in two Colman lanterns at WalMart and Target and now this Rebel based head lamp. I think this year these high output LEDs will make their debut in many more "ordinary" (to us anyway) flashlights.

My wallet will be thin this year. I'm going to try out this headlamp.


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## matrixshaman (Feb 14, 2008)

I've seen Energizer use Nichia - which is a smaller LED but I am going to doubt they are using a Rebel until I see it with my own eyes. I looked through the Energizer web site and see nothing that looks like it could be a Rebel. The one Energizer headlamp I have is probably a Luxeon I or III. Someone get a pic or prove me wrong and I'll be on the way to buy one.


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## degarb (Feb 15, 2008)

I have a 1 watt 40 lumen Nichia. The beam is very purple or blue. My one watt 70 lumen rebel is very yello and ringy. Being yellow, it doesn't appear nearly as bright as my 80 lumen Cree. That is, unless I look through a white sheet of paper and shine all lights exactly up from a table onto the paper from a few inches; then, each light corresponds to my perceptions to the lumen rating on package.


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## JohnR66 (Feb 15, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> I've seen Energizer use Nichia - which is a smaller LED but I am going to doubt they are using a Rebel until I see it with my own eyes. I looked through the Energizer web site and see nothing that looks like it could be a Rebel. The one Energizer headlamp I have is probably a Luxeon I or III. Someone get a pic or prove me wrong and I'll be on the way to buy one.


 
I could not find this on the site either. I plan to pick one up this evening and I can get some photos of it.


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## matrixshaman (Feb 15, 2008)

If it is a Rebel let's hope it's not one of the recall Rebels that have about a 24 hour average life.


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## mchlwise (Feb 15, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> If it is a Rebel let's hope it's not one of the recall Rebels that have about a 24 hour average life.



I was afraid of the same thing. 

If you REALLY want me to, I'll go back today and take a picture with my crappy camera phone, but I don't know how well it will do. 

I've got one of the first-run P3DR100 models that doesn't have the little reflector thing at the bottom of it and you can clearly see the entire Rebel chip. The Target Energizer headlamp also allows you to see the whole chip, and I can assure you - ITS A REBEL.


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## matrixshaman (Feb 15, 2008)

mchlwise said:


> I was afraid of the same thing.
> 
> If you REALLY want me to, I'll go back today and take a picture with my crappy camera phone, but I don't know how well it will do.
> 
> I've got one of the first-run P3DR100 models that doesn't have the little reflector thing at the bottom of it and you can clearly see the entire Rebel chip. The Target Energizer headlamp also allows you to see the whole chip, and I can assure you - ITS A REBEL.



good enough for me - thanks for the confirmation. Off to target.com ....


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## matrixshaman (Feb 15, 2008)

I tried all sorts of searches at Target online but can't find it. They have 8 headlamps but none appear to be this one and none are Energizer brand. I tried flashlights, head lamps, headlamps, headlights, head lights, Energizer lights and several others - nada. I searched Energizer's web site again, downloaded their catalog and still nothing. 
Can anyone find an Ad for this anywhere? Someone must be selling and advertising these.


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## mchlwise (Feb 15, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> I tried all sorts of searches at Target online but can't find it. They have 8 headlamps but none appear to be this one and none are Energizer brand. I tried flashlights, head lamps, headlamps, headlights, head lights, Energizer lights and several others - nada. I searched Energizer's web site again, downloaded their catalog and still nothing.
> Can anyone find an Ad for this anywhere? Someone must be selling and advertising these.



There's a little Asian Buffet right next to my local Target that I already decided I would go to for lunch today. (All you can eat sushi rolls )

I'll stop by after lunch, take a quick pick, and see if it has a model number or something. 

:thumbsup:


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## kevinm (Feb 15, 2008)

The SKU's the same as the previous version (the scanner said the same thing for both). I was planning on returning mine; I want something with AA'a or cr123's. Matrix, you're in CO also, right? Where? 

Kevin


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## mchlwise (Feb 15, 2008)

Marduke said:


> Sure it wasn't the older Lux I model they sell?
> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/HD5L33AE.PDF




The plot thickens. 

It's basically this model, but it has a Rebel instead of the older Lux I. 

The only camera I had access to was the one on my phone, which doesn't have a macro function. The model number is almost the same - it's HD5L*W*33AE, confirmed on the back of the package. Target transposed characters, but here's the peg tag with the model number on it, combined with a mostly legible shot of the sku:







The front (if you look REALLY closely, you can see the Rebel emitter): 






The back (notice the 11 hours run time on the 1W led vs. the 5 hours stated in the PDF):






And the best I could do at a close-up of the emitter (you should be able to see the Rebel chip and the lighter dome on one side of it):


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## PhantomPhoton (Feb 15, 2008)

Those pics are good enough for me to see what's going on.
Interesting, I'll have to run thru my local Target and check it out, thanks.


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## degarb (Feb 15, 2008)

Bygolly, I saw something like this at Lowes. But all were lux 1's clearly, however one was very different and looked like your picture. While I have one browning with rebel for a good 3 days now, I really don't know what a rebel looks like.

Any one with better closeup of the led?

How is the beam and light from it? floody, spotty? Yellow? 

Did they run out of lux1's and put in rebels? Getting rid of recalled reb's? Please run through 4 continuous 5 hour cycles and get back to us if it still works?


----
I don't own a brick and mortar light I don't like, since they are easy to return.


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## JohnR66 (Feb 15, 2008)

I too got some test shots. Thanks for the other shots, so I don't have to upload so much. Anyhoo, Here is a clearer shot of the led. I'm pretty certain this is a Rebel. You can't see the electrical traces in the shot, but they are there and it matches the images on the Lumileds site.

So there you have it. A Rebel in a $20 department store light.


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## degarb (Feb 15, 2008)

That's the guy I saw at Lowes. Hope it is still there, since the stock at my local Target is spotty and inconsistent. The flashlights alone are broken into about 6 sections scattered across back side of store, with many missing lights found at Target across town--I guess to encourage the female foraging instinct.

Would you describe it floody or spot? I suppose the reflector is pretty important for usefulness of the lumens. Looking forward to beam shots.


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## matrixshaman (Feb 16, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the research, pics and confirmations! That indeed does look like a Rebel. 
kevinm - I moved out of CO recently and unfortunately there's not a Target even remotely close. If these are replacing the older models though it sounds like they may start showing up at Lowe's too and that's a reachable destination. 
It does look like the same basic reflector with just the LED swap. Looks like it might have some artifacts if that reflector is totally smooth. But double the runtime is nice in a headlamp...


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## Brlux (Feb 17, 2008)

From the last picture it looks like one of the older non TFFC Rebels. The TFFC only had yellow phosphor on the led die where as the older Rebels (non TFFC and non recalled) had the yellow phosphor covering the entire top of the package. I think the highest Lumen/Watt rating for these older stile Rebels was 50 so they are only half as efficient as the Rebel 100 TFFC chips that were ended up in the recall, but they are still an improvement over the old Luxeon 1W and 3W and I am glad to see them in a common item marketed to the masses.


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## degarb (Feb 17, 2008)

Picked on up from Lowes. Boy what an ugly light! Just reaks ugly and cheap. "Would I want to be caught in the dark with this on my head?", I thought.

Anyway, with sheet of white paper on lens, the light through does trounce the 40 lumen Luxeon I, and is about equal with the Phantom 70. Far less blue in light too, more in white yellowish, but not as yellowish as the Phantom I have. However, with every half inch you raise paper from the light, it gets dimmer. Actually, the throw of this light is below that of my Luxeon 1 Garrity headlamp, because is wasting a huge amount of its light in the corona. The thing has the brightest corona of any of my lights; and so, would be great for someone that wants an agressive hotspot with bright corona. 

Personally, I prefer the spot I am looking at to be as bright as possible v. battery life, in the battery powered world, and don't need stuff I am not viewing to be lit. So, I will likely do a battery test. If by some miracle it can get 8 hours with little dimming, I will keep it. However, the laws of physics state that 3 AAA at 1 amp-hour mean 3.6 watt-hours driven at 1 watt or a tad less equals around 4 hours of real use. The light isn't worth modifying to 3 AA on rear.

I really can't wait for the Energizer hardcase 100 lumen Cree headlamp. If Energizer comes up with a thrower like their 2 AA Cree swivel flashligh, but with 3 AA headlamp, it may be the light I will be buried in.


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## degarb (Feb 18, 2008)

First runtime test on high with 1amp hour AAs: checked after 7 hours, barely any light coming out. Hmm, package says 11 hours.

Now, wouldn't you think there are alot of returned lights because runtime can't match a third of package claimed runtimes? What do they do with all these perfectly good returned lights?


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## Brlux (Feb 18, 2008)

In all fairness the discharge cycle for a rechargeable is different than an Alkaline. The rechargeable will hold it's voltage more steadily throughout the discharge cycle and thus provide a higher current several hours into the test and then rapidly drop off at the end. The Alkaline will slowly ramp down from the beginning and thus be dimmer several hours in but in the process will have used less of it's available capacity. As a result it will be putting out usable light say 11 hours in.


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## LukeA (Feb 18, 2008)

Brlux said:


> From the last picture it looks like one of the older non TFFC Rebels. The TFFC only had yellow phosphor on the led die where as the older Rebels (non TFFC and non recalled) had the yellow phosphor covering the entire top of the package. I think the highest Lumen/Watt rating for these older stile Rebels was 50 so they are only half as efficient as the Rebel 100 TFFC chips that were ended up in the recall, but they are still an improvement over the old Luxeon 1W and 3W and I am glad to see them in a common item marketed to the masses.



I agree, that's one of the original, low-bin Rebels.


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## degarb (Mar 21, 2009)

*Re: Rebel in Energizer headlamp at Target? Cree edition.*

I've taken about 3 month vacation from closely reading cpf headlamp forum. Googling, don't see a relevant post.

Yesterday, March, 19th something 2009, I looked at the energizer headlamp at my local Walmart - the same style that used the rebels last year in some models. To my surprise, the emitter was clearly a Cree! Not milky, I think, like a Seoul. Not small like a luxeon. ( I have soldered a few cree's and Seoul upgrades in place.)

This would excite me, except I tried and don't like the shallow reflector in this energizer lamp (They would need 200 lumen/watt to match the lux of my 2005 brinkman wm 40 lumen lux1's. Lux is more important for task work and battery life concerns; flood is better for hiking through woods.). I also cannot imagine how they dealt with cree rings or if they changed out the resistor to match the forward voltage difference. 

Has this been discussed?


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## Marduke (Mar 21, 2009)

They use a XR-C, nothing to really write home about.

No other updates were required. It uses the same reflector as the Lux and Rebel versions, and the same resistors. The forward voltages are close enough for most white LED's that nothing needs to be changed to go from one to another.


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## fishx65 (Mar 21, 2009)

I tried the Cree version of this headlight. Very bright wide spill but a horrible looking hotspot. I also did not like how you have to cycle through all the modes every time you use it. The $25.00 Coleman Cree at Wally is a much nicer headlight.


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## degarb (Mar 21, 2009)

fishx65 said:


> I tried the Cree version of this headlight. Very bright wide spill but a horrible looking hotspot. I also did not like how you have to cycle through all the modes every time you use it. The $25.00 Coleman Cree at Wally is a much nicer headlight.




Did it have any throw? The rebel version was so weak that I returned it. Though the rebel had a ton of flood. The workman ship and bulky design was horrid. 

I like the xrc throw pattern better than the xre, at least on the colman flashlight (also color of xrc is way better than the greenish xre coleman). So, for me, i could put up with horrible looking spot, if it had some throw (I doubt with that shallow reflector), and price were low enough. Also, the light looks like a super easy mod to 3 AA. 

It just looks like a light, so cheaply made, that, if some virtue it possess, could be sold super cheap.


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## fishx65 (Mar 21, 2009)

The hotspot on the Cree version is just a mess. It does have some throw but it's the farthest thing from a nice round hotspot. Mine took a ride back to the store the day after I purchased it. Paying double the price for the EOS Rebel is a very smart move IMO.


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