# Poor man's surefire perfect beam



## Warhoggie (Nov 26, 2005)

I got this idea after my friend's store was tagged. If you love a perfect beam without artifacts, this write-up is probably for you. Not sure if anyone done this before. Also, like everything else in life, there's pros and cons to this.



My victim is a stock new 2D Mag-Lite with stock bulb. At the tightest focus all I got was this sorry a$$ beamshot:






Man, what can I do??? Solution: a $10.99 bottle of glass etching cream. (Noticed it says it may not work on some pyrex glass):






Safety first: wear proper safety glasses and latex gloves. I used a bottle of isopropyl alcohol and cleaned the stock bulb. Follow the directions on the bottle of glass etching cream. I used a Q-tip ear swab for this project. Wait 5 minutes; rinse the bulb under hot water until the cream is off. Blow dry bulb, and wipe down with isopropyl alcohol again before usage.



Stock bulb before etching:






Stock bulb after etching. Noticed I didn't do a good job toward the bottom of glass globe:






Beamshot of mod stock bulb in stock Maglite 2D @ tightest focus:







Pros: Perfect beam, no artifacts, very little cost, all stock parts. Will work with any lights. Even high power mod lights with a smooth reflector.


Cons: Estimated 20%-25% decrease in lumens. However, this depends on how long you marinate the bulb. Armour Etch recommends 5 minutes for a nice stain glass. But for our purpose, marinate the bulb for 2-3 minutes will get rid of the artifacts on the bulb, with less lost of lumens.



Enjoy! Please sticky if this is useful.


----------



## Beamhead (Nov 26, 2005)

Nice job and great pics.:goodjob: 

Where did you get the etching cream?


----------



## Trashman (Nov 26, 2005)

Deleted--double post! (I didn't see my post and figured I must not have pressed enter)


----------



## Trashman (Nov 26, 2005)

That's a pretty good idea! I wonder if that's how bulbs are frosted?


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 26, 2005)

Just tested on my Pelican big D bulb + Lightedge MOP aluminum reflector. The beam looks even better! 25 yard throw still looks good, but did noticed slight drop in lumens. So I have a high power flood light now.


----------



## CLHC (Nov 26, 2005)

Great Job! Now I know what they others were talking about elsewhere here and you provided the pictures to go along with simple instructions!


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 26, 2005)

Any craft store should carry it. I got mine from Michael's.

http://www.michaels.com/art/online/displayProductPage?productNum=cp0107

One 3 oz. bottle should be able to do hundreds of bulbs.



Beamhead said:


> Nice job and great pics.:goodjob:
> 
> Where did you get the etching cream?


----------



## Topper (Nov 26, 2005)

I just bought a small bottle on eBay, looked like it's worth trying out.
Thanks for the tip.
Topper


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 26, 2005)

Hope it works for you! Just remember, safey first, this stuff is acid!  




Topper said:


> I just bought a small bottle on eBay, looked like it's worth trying out.
> Thanks for the tip.
> Topper


----------



## Hikaru (Nov 26, 2005)

Most glass etch acids are some form of hydrofluoric acid, and since I just finished a 30 min presentation on HF saftey for my lab, I'll summarize it here for anyone thinking about similar mods.

HF is unlike other acids in that the fluorine ion binds especially with calcium. This means that in lower concentrations (<50%) you might not even feel it until hours later and it's well absorbed into the skin. You can usually see the ulceration before you feel it. In addition to tissue damage, the binding of free calcium can interfere with nerve signal transmission. Large enough HF burns kill, not from tissue necrosis, but usually from cardiac arrest. 

The volumes and concentrations most people would use only present a moderate danger, but still exercise extra caution: eye protection and appropriate gloves, at the very least.


----------



## CLHC (Nov 26, 2005)

Thanks for the CAUTION on its use. So with that in mind then, would nitrile gloves be better for use than latex? Not to go off topic here. . .


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 26, 2005)

Yes, caution should be stress! I purchased this brand since it is in a cream form to help miniumize splashing. It is thick like tapioca. I guess that's why you're suppose to be 18 years of age in order to purchase this item. Or may be to cut down on people using this item for tagging purposes.


----------



## Hikaru (Nov 26, 2005)

CHC said:


> Thanks for the CAUTION on its use. So with that in mind then, would nitrile gloves be better for use than latex? Not to go off topic here. . .



Yes, nitrile (22 mil) is better than latex, and neoprene is better still.


----------



## nemul (Nov 26, 2005)

Try this....


----------



## bfg9000 (Nov 26, 2005)

I've been frosting bulbs this way for some years, and vastly prefer it to things like WriteRight on the lens. But I have found the hard way that some bulbs are attached to the base using water soluble glues. And some "glass etching kits" like the ones at Walmart are just lacquer paint; you really want the HF acid type for lowest light loss and best heat resistance.


----------



## LightAddict (Nov 26, 2005)

How do you guys think this would work on the Thor bulb?


----------



## cratz2 (Nov 26, 2005)

Like Nemul suggested, I think if you frosted most of the bulb except the top 10% or 20%, the beam should be very nice and with minimal loss of brightness from the hotspot. I think this would work even better with the Xenon bulb.

I also wonder how this compares with sputtered reflectors that I've been doing for quite some time in terms of lost lumens and lost throw.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland (Nov 26, 2005)

nemul, your "half-and-half" photos are intriguing. How would these alternatives to full-frosting affect the resulting beam?


----------



## nemul (Nov 26, 2005)

I think the one with the bottom frosted would work great... smooth out the filament reflection while letting full brightness out the frount of the bulb... just get the frosting past the filament then leave the rest of the top open..


----------



## CLHC (Nov 26, 2005)

That's neat looking Nemul!

It's interesting that on some bulbs like the Solarc 10W HID bulb, the frosting is on the top portion more like a cap instead.

Just did mine a few minutes ago on the Energizer HardCase Lantern and got the desired effect I was looking for. Now will have to try that with my friend's Streamlight TL-3 bulb lamp since he's disappointed!

It's great that this thread has been started!


----------



## Ray_of_Light (Nov 26, 2005)

A word of warning... don't try frosting high pressure bulbs!

1. The heat trapped from the frosting increases the temperature behind the design parameters; this can lead to a bulb explosion;
2. The indentation in the bulb caused from frosting produces a disuniform thermal dilatation, that can lead to bulb explosion.

It is OK to frost low pressure and vacuum bulbs. HF is also used in chemicals to remove rust; that products produce the same frosting effect on glass.

Anthony


----------



## Double_A (Nov 26, 2005)

Hikaru said:


> Most glass etch acids are some form of hydrofluoric acid, and since I just finished a 30 min presentation on HF saftey for my lab, I'll summarize it here for anyone thinking about similar mods.
> 
> HF is unlike other acids in that the fluorine ion binds especially with calcium. This means that in lower concentrations (<50%) you might not even feel it until hours later and it's well absorbed into the skin. You can usually see the ulceration before you feel it. In addition to tissue damage, the binding of free calcium can interfere with nerve signal transmission. Large enough HF burns kill, not from tissue necrosis, but usually from cardiac arrest.
> 
> The volumes and concentrations most people would use only present a moderate danger, but still exercise extra caution: eye protection and appropriate gloves, at the very least.




Absolutely! We use large amounts of HF in the Wafer Fab business and it is dangerous even in concentrations of 2%!

HF gives us the hebie jebies, the treatment for it is not nice. 

One of our chemtechs got a drop on his shoulder he had over a dozen injections of Calcium Gluconate around the area to coax the Fluorine ions away from the calcium rich bone. Another Fab operator got some on her fingertip about a dozen injections in and around where the fingernail used to be (they removed it) did the trick but her fingertip is disfigured.

Please be VERY carfull with anything containing HF or Ammonium Fluoride!

Do you use wheel cleaner for your car's wheels check the labels as this is a common ingredient!

FOLLOW ALL PRECAUTIONS ON THE LABEL.

B-T-W very nice etch job you did, I might try this myself.


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 26, 2005)

Nemul's hacked picture is a great ideal. I will have to figure out how to do this safely. I have butter fingers, and don't wanna have acid touching me. Masking tape may be the way to go, as it's not too sticky. I also have some rubber spacers that may just fit over the top of the glass globe, so I can try to do just the bottom portion of the bulb.

I'm guessing here, but the batwing effect is caused by the two electrodes that are holding up the filament right? The electrode basically causes a shadow. If true, then just a vertical frost in front of each electrode should smooth out the batwing effect, right? This may help with lumen loss. Although I just read an article that say frosted bulbs only lose 1% of light


----------



## CLHC (Nov 26, 2005)

Ray_of_Light said:


> A word of warning... don't try frosting high pressure bulbs! . . .It is OK to frost low pressure and vacuum bulbs.



High pressure bulbs/lamps as in HIDs?—The 10W Solarc HID comes that way already.

Low Pressure and Vacuum bulbs/lamps—Would this be okay to use on the Welch~Allyn bulbs (WA01185, WA01274, WA01166, WA01160, WA01111, etc.) as is utilized on the modified Mags? Any thoughts before a disaster occurs?

Thanks again on the safety first! If I remember correctly it's 1* (as - te - risk) or is it cover your six?


----------



## darkzero (Nov 26, 2005)

Ray_of_Light said:


> A word of warning... don't try frosting high pressure bulbs!
> 
> 1. The heat trapped from the frosting increases the temperature behind the design parameters; this can lead to a bulb explosion;
> 2. The indentation in the bulb caused from frosting produces a disuniform thermal dilatation, that can lead to bulb explosion.
> ...


 
As in halogen bulbs? I was thinking on try this to a 100w halogen bulb in my spotlight. Probably not a good idea then?

With bulbs that have a large filament and output an oval type beam, will frosting the bulb make the beam round?


----------



## darkzero (Nov 26, 2005)

CHC said:


> High pressure bulbs/lamps as in HIDs?—The 10W Solarc HID comes that way already.


 
The frosted tip on the Solarc HID is only on the outer glass the shields the actual bulb inside.


----------



## paulr (Nov 26, 2005)

You can buy frosted PR bulbs from reflectalite.com in various ratings.


----------



## Ray_of_Light (Nov 26, 2005)

For "High pressure bulbs" I mean all halogen, xenon-halogen, and HID of any type. 
These bulbs operates under pressure, that sometimes is well above 20 atm at 200 °C (envelope temperature).

KPR- and PR- are OK. 

Anthony


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 26, 2005)

Found this article: 

...Frosted glass eliminated transparency and its light-scattering properties made for a very pleasant illumination. Later, this notion also appealed to light bulbmanufacturers. Clear bulbs produced a great deal of annoying glare. Frosting the bulb with hydrofluoric acid cut down the glare but therough surface readily gathered dirt and diminished the light’s intensity. So why not put the frosting on the inside? That was tried but it weakened the glass. Finally, in 1925, Marvin Pipkin discovered that treating the glass with hydrogen fluoride twice instead of only once paradoxically allowed it to keep its strength. We have been basking in the frosted glow of lightbulbs ever since.

http://www.accn.ca/accn2002/march2002/pages2-14.pdf

Treated it twice??? Go figure!


----------



## cyberhobo (Nov 26, 2005)

Now that's what I call a "mod in a bottle." Thanks for sharing.


----------



## cyberhobo (Nov 26, 2005)

Hikaru said:


> Most glass etch acids are some form of hydrofluoric acid, and since I just finished a 30 min presentation on HF saftey for my lab, I'll summarize it here for anyone thinking about similar mods.
> 
> HF is unlike other acids in that the fluorine ion binds especially with calcium. This means that in lower concentrations (<50%) you might not even feel it until hours later and it's well absorbed into the skin. You can usually see the ulceration before you feel it. In addition to tissue damage, the binding of free calcium can interfere with nerve signal transmission. Large enough HF burns kill, not from tissue necrosis, but usually from cardiac arrest.
> 
> The volumes and concentrations most people would use only present a moderate danger, but still exercise extra caution: eye protection and appropriate gloves, at the very least.


 
Thanks for high-lighting the safety issues. Should also work in a ventilated area. If post becomes a sticky, should also be included.


----------



## Chris201W (Nov 27, 2005)

Warhoggie, I assume you had to focus the beam to get that sweet "after" shot of the beam. What happens if you turn the head? Do you still get rings and dark spots, or is it just a big circle of (dimmer) light?


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 27, 2005)

That is correct Chris201W, tightest focus. At the widest focus, artifacts are cut down dramatically, but you can't escape the huge black spot in the middle.





Chris201W said:


> Warhoggie, I assume you had to focus the beam to get that sweet "after" shot of the beam. What happens if you turn the head? Do you still get rings and dark spots, or is it just a big circle of (dimmer) light?


----------



## webley445 (Nov 27, 2005)

Someone needs to see what happens with this technique and the 1274 & 1185's!!


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 27, 2005)

I only have one 1274...but don't have the power to drive it yet.



Waiting on Elektro Lumens 3 to D adapters. Also need to put it to use with Kiu's socket kits.





webley445 said:


> Someone needs to see what happens with this technique and the 1274 & 1185's!!


----------



## webley445 (Nov 27, 2005)

I have a spare 1185 and 6 cell incan bulb I would be willing to donate to see the effects if anyone would be interested in doing this and posting review. Would only ask they be returned afterwards.


----------



## legtu (Nov 28, 2005)

webley445 said:


> Someone needs to see what happens with this technique and the 1274 & 1185's!!



I think they're high-pressure bulbs... :shrug:


----------



## Skyclad01 (Nov 28, 2005)

I was browsing the River Rock LED lanter review thread, and saw that many people were looking for (and trying) ways to kind of dampen the light slightly to lessen the glare and improve flood.

Makes me wonder if this stuff is the perfect cure for that?


----------



## bfg9000 (Nov 28, 2005)

HF may be able to etch glass but you will note it is stored in a plastic bottle... won't do anything to plastic LEDs or lenses.


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 28, 2005)

For plastic, 800 - 1000 grit sand paper comes to mind. (This is very fine sand paper, generally used on vehicle paint jobs.) You have to be able to take the LED out to do this though. The LED will have a matte finish afterwards. Note: I've never tried it. But if it's okay for clear coat on cars, it should work on plastic.



Skyclad01 said:


> I was browsing the River Rock LED lanter review thread, and saw that many people were looking for (and trying) ways to kind of dampen the light slightly to lessen the glare and improve flood.
> 
> 
> Makes me wonder if this stuff is the perfect cure for that?


----------



## Chris201W (Nov 28, 2005)

I tried this on a stock 3D mag today using the same etching cream as Warhoggie. I left it on the bulb for about three and a half minutes. As far as I can see there is very little difference in terms of overall output between the frosted bulb and the stock bulb. The major difference is that the frosted doesn't have the throw of the clear bulb. By frosting the bulb you're essentially increasing the size of the light source which decreases throw.


----------



## Topper (Nov 28, 2005)

I was thinking about trying a light frost on one of my mag lenses instead of the bulb. If that works then I do not need to worry about the "high powered" bulbs. I recall buying glass replacement lenses a few months back maybe I can find them while I wait on the acid to get here. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
Topper


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 29, 2005)

Interesting idea! I think that would really make it a true flood light. I ordered some mag glass lenses, as they're cheap. Will try it myself. Pending results! I am not worried about the these low voltage "high powered" bulbs. I've seen seen up to 50 watts halogen 12v bi-pin frosted bulbs for sale by online merchants. Just wear protective gears. Also, as mentioned before, double frosting will strengthen the bulb. (Marvin Pipkin, 1925)



Topper said:


> I was thinking about trying a light frost on one of my mag lenses instead of the bulb. If that works then I do not need to worry about the "high powered" bulbs. I recall buying glass replacement lenses a few months back maybe I can find them while I wait on the acid to get here. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
> Topper


----------



## Topper (Nov 29, 2005)

I love throw but fact is mostly flood is what is more usefull for me. I plan on starting with just a minute then do it over if needed, I can hardly wait to try this stuff.
Topper


----------



## CLHC (Nov 29, 2005)

I tried it with the stock halogen MagCharger bi-pin bulb. It took quite a while to get it to "frost". . .er, etch. Had to do this six (6) times. I did etch the other ones for the Energizer and it did fine. Just took 3 minutes.

With the MagCharger bulb, the first I did for 3 minutes and it did nothing. Did it a second time for same amount of time and still nothing. Third time I left it on for 5 minutes. Just a slight hazing but only on the top cap portion. Did it again and left it on for another 5 minutes. Looks the same. And another for 7 minutes. Starting to have that "frosted" look. For the last time I left it on for 12 minutes. I know it says for only 5 but. . .It came out the way I wanted it.

The lighting pattern looks just like in that picture posted at the outset of this thread. . .By the way, this MagCharger is housebound and that is perfect.


----------



## farmall (Nov 30, 2005)

Just thought. I wonder if there would be and benefit to etching the center of a mag lens? Maybe a small spot about 1/2" in the center.

It may help smooth the beam and maybe not hurt the throw as bad.


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 30, 2005)

I don't know the answer to that. Off hand, I would think it will not solve all the artifact issue.



farmall said:


> Just thought. I wonder if there would be and benefit to etching the center of a mag lens? Maybe a small spot about 1/2" in the center. It may help smooth the beam and maybe not hurt the throw as bad. farmall


 

CHC, wow! 12 minutes??? Mag charger using quartz? Pyrex glass?



CHC said:


> ...For the last time I left it on for 12 minutes. I know it says for only 5 but. . .It came out the way I wanted it. CHC


 
Topper, that is exactly my thought! I have lights just for throw. But majority of the time, I need a bright flood, for less than 50 feet away. So far the frosted Pelican Big D is the answer. The low-power 11 watt frosted pelican Big D bulb is great too. I believe that bulb is around 200 lumens.



Topper said:


> I love throw but fact is mostly flood is what is more usefull for me. I plan on starting with just a minute then do it over if needed, I can hardly wait to try this stuff. Topper


----------



## CLHC (Nov 30, 2005)

Warhoggie that is a good question regarding the MagCharger bulb/lamp's construction. I don't know. . .But I sure like the beam pattern produced after finding the "sweet spot"!


----------



## Warhoggie (Nov 30, 2005)

Good to hear! By the way, is that stock bulb or the mag white star type? magnum star?




Warning: Frosting may be addicting!








CHC said:


> Warhoggie that is a good question regarding the MagCharger bulb/lamp's construction. I don't know. . .But I sure like the beam pattern produced after finding the "sweet spot"!


----------



## CLHC (Nov 30, 2005)

It's the stock MAGLITE Rechargeable Flashlight Halogen Bi-Pin Bulb.

I'm thinking (_I may I might—maybe_) of trying it on the WA01160 when I get my hands on one. We shall see. . .


----------



## yellow (Dec 1, 2005)

damn, You would not believe which problems all Your cool modding treads can pose.
To get beams from Maglites that can, at least, be accepted is great (still have some around the house as emergency lights), but to get any media able to frost glass is impossible here.
Something with being hasardous, only could be sold if buyer brings a license to "be able and allowed to handle poisons".

So tried to order online,...
Finally the 4th shop will send me the Glass etching cream.

...but the folks around here, scratching our underground windows, seem to have such media. Today I used a wagon where the windows definitly were etched (1/2" broad letters)


----------



## Niteowl (Dec 5, 2005)

I finally picked up some of the etching cream. Great idea Warhoggie!

As mentioned, 5 minutes might be a little too much. Had to leave town after I got it, so I only got one bulb done. Actually turned a stock 2C into a usable, if not blinding house light. A KPR112 is next in line for my 3x123 modded 2C. I think I can live with a little loss of throw..........maybe.


----------



## Topper (Dec 5, 2005)

Ok I got the stuff I found my spare lenses (I got more than one) I gave it a try for about a minute and was not happy with the way it "LOOKED" so I coated it a second time and gave it 2 minutes--works but a bad answer I should have installed and checked my first coating I did not. My bad I got 2 more to try without touching a bulb. I will regroup and try once more. The lens looks great but I lost way more light (I think) than needed to get the effect. I do think this is worth a try so I am a happy camper just a less than smart camper.
Topper


----------



## CLHC (Dec 5, 2005)

Just did the WA01111 for the Mag11.74. Left the etching cream on for roughly 7 or so minutes and now I have the desired "sweet-spot" lighting effect with NO Uggs!

This stuff is Great!


----------



## AtomicX (Dec 5, 2005)

ok...here's one for ya' , what about the Radio Shack XPR103 Xenon...do't think it's a high pressure, but unsure. it's only $2.79 and PR based, looks almost identical to the standard mag Krypton bulbs. Wonder if that one would be OK to frost... and also the Krypton 6D bulb for mag. Anybody got experience there? I just got a hold of a bottle and was going to start with a standard 3D mag bulb, then take a chance on the XPR103, since it will be inside the light when it fires up and pointed away from me as a general precaution as with any experiment until it's proven itself and well heated. Time to find a suitable holder around here and give it a whirl. carefullt.


----------



## CLHC (Dec 5, 2005)

I "frosted" the stock MagCharger bulb which claims an output of 175 Lumens and did the WA01274. I "misted" the WA01111 and got the look I wanted. Both the Welch~Allyns are considered "super bulbs" according to a well known online dealer. Works fine on my end. Others may vary though. . .Of course I have no idea about the Radio Shack bulbs.

Enjoy!


----------



## AtomicX (Dec 5, 2005)

what's "misted" ??? spray of some sort? or light frost treatment with the etch?? thanks.... I WILL try this once I know what to use. I have the etch cream so far. Thanks again....:help:


----------



## CLHC (Dec 5, 2005)

That's just me calling it that, since it's "lightly" applied than the full-blown "frosted" envelopement.


----------



## AtomicX (Dec 6, 2005)

great...anyone else have good luck with this method and PR bulbs...chime in...was hoping to do this with BI-PIN WA 1160... but I guess thats pushing my luck and dangerous... so the stock magcharger bulb ok I guess. The 6D Krypton will be one to try for sure. Any suggestions ? :wave:


----------



## Warhoggie (Dec 6, 2005)

Heehee, I feel like a caveman who just discovered fire.

Pelican Big D high output lamp. I tried the "photoshop bulb" picture that Nemul suggested. The beam is not surefire perfect, but the artifacts are gone, with a couple of rings around the spill light area. I think I need to frost slightly higher to get rid of the rings. Also notice the frosting is catching some of the aluminum that is rubbing off from the reflector? I guess that's why they frost the inside of the bulb.






Pelican Big D low output lamp. The beam on this is one is much better. Almost surefire perfect hotspot. I'm thinking the best of both worlds in terms of good beam, and throw is to frost just over the top of the filament. Your mileage may vary.





Cheap Krypton Rayovac 4.8v from Kmart. I used this bulb with my the six cell Mag6D, and the beam is very white. However the bulb is starting to turn black after about 15 minutes of burn time. Frosting can make crappy beams look good. However I'm starting to think frosting may be best for medium power and higher power lights, as it make better flood lights. 




Hope this helps guys. Please share if you can make this even better! That's how we all learn!


----------



## AtomicX (Dec 6, 2005)

VERY nice pictures. As one who has beeninto photography for years... I can appreciate these great mico shots. thank you! :wave:


----------



## Warhoggie (Dec 6, 2005)

Oh, almost forgot...I tried to frost these GE brand bulbs bought from Target...no good! Seems like this acid can't etch quartz. After 10 minutes, still no frost!!! BTW I ran this bulb with 14.4v, and it is pretty bright. I purposely tested the stock plastic reflector with it. Started to melt in less than 45 seconds.


----------



## nemul (Dec 6, 2005)

nemul said:


> I think the one with the bottom frosted would work great... smooth out the filament reflection while letting full brightness out the front of the bulb... *just get the frosting past the filament then leave the rest of the top open..*


----------



## CLHC (Dec 6, 2005)

What pictures eh Warhoggie? I'd like to show mine too, but unfortunately I don't have a digital camera. . .

The "super bulbs" like the WA01111 that I did, took me a few tries before it started to "mist". Since the instructions call for working temperatures of 70ºF, I ran the bottle under hot water for a while, then dipped the bulb half way from cap on down. Left the etching cream on for a minute then washed it off. Did it this way 3 times. The last step in this case, I left it on for 7 minutes. Starting to get a feel for how this stuff works. Well, I like it!


----------



## Warhoggie (Dec 6, 2005)

Heehee, actually i think you can pickup a decent 3.0 MegaPixel digital camera for less than $80 now. Even cheaper with a 1.3MP. 

I will be doing the WA1274 next. I just don't have a reflector that can focus the beam tight right now. With 7 cells, it was very white in color compared to the Pelican D.




CHC said:


> What pictures eh Warhoggie? I'd like to show mine too, but unfortunately I don't have a digital camera. . .
> 
> The "super bulbs" like the WA01111 that I did, took me a few tries before it started to "mist". Since the instructions call for working temperatures of 70ºF, I ran the bottle under hot water for a while, then dipped the bulb half way from cap on down. Left the etching cream on for a minute then washed it off. Did it this way 3 times. The last step in this case, I left it on for 7 minutes. Starting to get a feel for how this stuff works. Well, I like it!


----------



## NikolaTesla (Dec 8, 2005)

This chemical stuff works like a charm. Smells bad, Got to be REAL careful but the light bulbs respond real well. Tried it my self. The stuff cost $25 but can make some beam quality improvements. Neat idea.


----------



## Warhoggie (Dec 10, 2005)

Hey NikolaTesla,
do you mind sharing which brand did you used? The stuff I tried did not have any smell at all.








NikolaTesla said:


> This chemical stuff works like a charm. Smells bad, Got to be REAL careful but the light bulbs respond real well. Tried it my self. The stuff cost $25 but can make some beam quality improvements. Neat idea.


----------



## NikolaTesla (Dec 10, 2005)

That stuff from Michael's - Armour Etch. Played havoc with my sinus. I have a bench with exhaust hood I use next time. That HF stuff is not kid stuff even in gel/paste. It do work but rather be safe than sorry. Florine and Chlorine are super active and will work havoc on your sinus. I got a few whiffs out of that bottle and it was more than I care for. Maybe you had good airflow/ ventilation by you.


----------



## Niteowl (Dec 10, 2005)

NT, sounds like you got the big bottle, got a lot of frosting to do, eh?

Warhoggie, does the reflector you're using got the little hole (no cam) in it? It look like the Pelican bulbs will work with the reflector I got from Light Edge if it does. I'm going to try the ROP with a 6C Mag.

I put together a 3x123 for a relative and used the Mag krypton 6D bulb. I used the 6D so it'd last as she won't need a blaster, just something dependable for the truck. The frosted bulb finished it off nicely, got rave reviews. 

Again, great idea Warhoggie! Oh yes, nice pics.


----------



## Warhoggie (Dec 10, 2005)

Thanks Niteowl, and yes, the ROP will indeed fit LightEdge's small opening reflectors. I'll also let you guys on a little secret. I been using the low power ROP bulb + seven AAs, and it's almost as bright as the Hi power bulb. 

I'm sure this will shorten the life of the bulb, but it's been about three days of play with it, and it seems ok. I also tested the Hi power bulb + seven AAs, and the light is just sheer devastating. The batteries used are hot off the charger too, so voltage should be slightly higher. Using 7 Sanyo 2500mAH. These bulbs can really hang! Can anyone calculate the lumens with these setup?

Also i been using a whooping 16.8volts on those GE 12v bulbs pictured above, and these bulb will take the punishment. Although the heat generated is starting to darken the opening / hole on my test lightedge reflector.



Dang! I really need to learn how to calculate lumens.



Niteowl said:


> NT, sounds like you got the big bottle, got a lot of frosting to do, eh?
> 
> Warhoggie, does the reflector you're using got the little hole (no cam) in it? It look like the Pelican bulbs will work with the reflector I got from Light Edge if it does. I'm going to try the ROP with a 6C Mag.
> 
> ...


 


NikolaTesla, Yes, I did make sure there were ventilation. You are also correct. These procedures are not for kids or anyone who can't or won't follow rules safely. It is best to slow down, be prepared and take your time through the entire process.



NikolaTesla said:


> That stuff from Michael's - Armour Etch. Played havoc with my sinus. I have a bench with exhaust hood I use next time. That HF stuff is not kid stuff even in gel/paste. It do work but rather be safe than sorry. Florine and Chlorine are super active and will work havoc on your sinus. I got a few whiffs out of that bottle and it was more than I care for. Maybe you had good airflow/ ventilation by you.


----------



## webley445 (Dec 10, 2005)

Wonder how frost the lens compares to the old "write rite" trick. 

Am wanting to try this with a few different bulbs but am wondering if it would be better to frost the lens?

Can we get some beam shots? Before and afters? Would like to see results of frosting bulbs/lens for varying effects of lighting?

Will someone eventually have some to sell?


----------



## andrewwynn (Dec 11, 2005)

we have to try on a lens vs the bulb.. i was very annoyed when i tried lens frosting tricks.. it really makes the light terrible to view from an off-axis situation.. so the holder of the light it's ok.. but it makes the light IMPOSSIBLE TO BE NEAR for all other people, quite a tragedy. 

On our first attempt at 3 or 5 minutes.. we could barely tell that the lamp was starting to etch.. i think we settled on like 20 or 30 minutes to etch the quartz that the WA lamps are apparently made out of i can't remember but they sure are neat.. 

considering the overdrive we run the lamps at i'm pretty confident in filament failure still being the primary cause of bulb demise. 

-awr

ps.. yeah we do plan on taking some before/after pictures.. especially comparing the obvious.. frosted bulb in smooth reflector vs clear bulb in frosty (stippled) reflector. 

the stippled reflector does a better job of smoothing the beam than the frosted lamp... but probably knocks down the center spot more.. so the frosting is a very nice in-between.. i think when we get a couple bulbs frosted 1/2 way it might even be better.

Oh.. another possibility for frosting that may not be as hazardous.. but you def. have to wear eye protection.. they sell this neat kit for like $20 to frost class with 'sandblast in a can'.. i've only seen it on infomercials but that might work even better and faster.. mask off teh bottom and spray around in a circle. 

OH... here's a very big thing.. 

we took the 1154 bulb which had the most gawd awful problem of the lens on the front of the bulb projecting the filament onto the wall.. and turned it into an extremely useful light from a 14.4V host.. 1360 bulb lumen.. a little more yellow than the mag85 pushed really hard.. but SIX TIMES the lamp life!

-awr


----------



## CLHC (Dec 11, 2005)

andrewwynn said:


> . . .they sell this neat kit for like $20 to frost class with 'sandblast in a can'. . .



Yes they sell those at Michael's too! I was thinking of getting one to try out. Maybe I'll do that and post here since the title of this thread is "Poor Man's SureFire Perfect Beam"


----------



## webley445 (Dec 11, 2005)

andrewwynn said:


> we have to try on a lens vs the bulb.. i was very annoyed when i tried lens frosting tricks.. it really makes the light terrible to view from an off-axis situation.. so the holder of the light it's ok.. but it makes the light IMPOSSIBLE TO BE NEAR for all other people, quite a tragedy.


 
Would this be a good analogy? When you remove the lamp shade of an incan table lamp lamp and it is blinding to use up close? 



andrewwynn said:


> On our first attempt at 3 or 5 minutes.. we could barely tell that the lamp was starting to etch.. i think we settled on like 20 or 30 minutes to etch the quartz that the WA lamps are apparently made out of i can't remember but they sure are neat..
> 
> considering the overdrive we run the lamps at i'm pretty confident in filament failure still being the primary cause of bulb demise.


 Ah, so the WA's will work?



andrewwynn said:


> i think when we get a couple bulbs frosted 1/2 way it might even be better.


My thought is using the frosting as a means of making the stock M*gs useable for those who either do not want to or cannot get into the mods that have been so popular of late.

My current interest lies in using a 2C body with CR123's to make a nice portable "flood" torch. Of course if being able to come out with some "throw" capability, though not in the WA bulb league, would be nice too. Meaning at least some of the focusing capability of the cammed reflector. If nothing else perhaps being able to adjust the size of the spot.

So I take it that frosting only the bottom half of the bulbs helps to eliminate that gawd awful filament artifact (as you ponited out)? This would be a vast improvement for the stock M*gs as is, imho.

... just noticed I am still spelling M*g this way, old habit from the past when there was alot of prejudice against the M*g


----------



## andrewwynn (Dec 20, 2005)

oops didn't see some of the questions directed at me:

it's more like taking a flashlight where you aim out in space and don't see the reflected beam close up.. than putting paper in front of it so you see the reflection. 

if you are off-axis you don't see the light at all.. but if you frost the lens you see the light from a 180deg. angle. 

We frosted about a dozen WAs the other day.. mostly 1185s but a coupld 1060s and an 1111 or two i believe.

we frosted the whole bulb.. don't know if it's helpful to 1/2 frost the lamp or not. 

once frosted, mostly 'focus' is just for fine-tuning the spot. 


-awr


----------



## Warhoggie (Dec 22, 2005)

Hey webley445,
I don't think that frosting of the glass lens in front of the flashlight is going to fly. I tested it by having a frosted glass in front of the flashlight, and all i got was unfocused scattered soft light around the front of the flashlight. I would say it's more of a really bright glow, then a flood light.


----------



## andrewwynn (Dec 22, 2005)

it has to be just enough frosting, the film that goes over a PDA works better for testing.. or just use some scotch tape (satin)... a few stripes across a glass lens would give you the idea. 

-awr


----------



## pertinax (Jan 8, 2006)

*Where to get the cream.*

Michael's does indeed carry this Armour etching cream, but at least around here, it's locked up in a cabinet, and only the manager has a key. It is NOT out on the shelf with the transparent glass paints, and glass sandblasting kits. 

If you don't ask a clerk (and even if you do-- I had to ask several to find one that knew what I was talking about), you probably won't find it in the stores. Ask the manager, or ask the clerk if they keep it locked up with the other hazardous materials.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: Where to get the cream.*

I have refined my technique as I use this stuff more.

I have a (very bad brain!) medical clamping plier looking thing that I use on Bi-Pins, and a different similar device with rubber band clamping for PR bulbs.

I dip the bulb and kind of twist and swirl it to get full coverage. On Bi-Pins I do usually about 20 minutes first time, and on PRs I'm down to less than 1.5 Minutes.

The ones I did initially with a Q-Tip I found to have holidays that still let some artifacts out. By the new method I have great success!

I really must :thanks: :goodjob: :wow:  :bow: :twothumbs and just generally THANK the members of CPF who got me going on this!!!


----------



## andrewwynn (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: Where to get the cream.*

We frosted about a dozen lamps and had to discover ourselves also that it takes quite a while with quartz to etch, but it makes a fantastic lamp in the end.. most improved award goes to the 1254 and runner-up goes to the 1060 in the mag charger.

-awr


----------



## CLHC (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: Where to get the cream.*

Say! That's what I should call it. . ."Dip and stir," like what PlayboyJoe alluded to above! Because THAT's what I do, although with a make-shift masking tape stick.


----------



## Warhoggie (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: Where to get the cream.*

Good to hear PlayboyJoe!


----------



## Pumaman (Sep 6, 2006)

7xCP1650 AA NIMH + 1 Dummy Cell + Mag 6 cell bulb in a craptastic coleman flashlight.







Here it is next to a P1






now frost bulb for 15 to 20 sec in Armour Etch.
















just dont overdo it and you wont lose too much light. Its a great product.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Sep 6, 2006)

Thanks for the Kudos guys!

I was just frosting some more 3 cell bulbs. I use 2x123 and a 3 cell in the 84 cent 2AA lights I keep stealing the SMJLEDs from...

I match the often used 123s by Flash Amps. I  a 2 cell with two quite used 123s.


----------



## jar3ds (Sep 7, 2006)

i'm suprised its taken me this long to post on this thread 

--

well... does anyone know how long you have to coat the ROP LOW for? 

I guess now I've added a trip to michael's to my list of things to do today ...

if guess I'll just follow the directions on the bottle unless anyone tells me differnet....


----------



## Pumaman (Sep 7, 2006)

did my rop low for 20 sec and it looks great. you can always do it again.:naughty:


----------



## jar3ds (Sep 7, 2006)

Pumaman said:


> did my rop low for 20 sec and it looks great. you can always do it again.:naughty:


 thanks puma... you have been very helpful the last couple days to me ...


----------



## ocharry (Sep 7, 2006)

so do you guys think i can do a 6d mag-num star bulb in a 2c-3cr123? just the bottom half, past the filament? it would be great to get rid of the artifacts,, this looks like a great idea,, i new here and i don't have my lite legs yet,, you guys talking all these numbers,,whew i am just getting my first hot wire running,,, there is alot to learn here,,, well actually i'm waiting on the bulbs now,, but if this is going to help,, i'm in!!!! you guys are great thanks for the tips 

ocharry


----------



## jar3ds (Sep 7, 2006)

ocharry said:


> so do you guys think i can do a 6d mag-num star bulb in a 2c-3cr123? just the bottom half, past the filament? it would be great to get rid of the artifacts,, this looks like a great idea,, i new here and i don't have my lite legs yet,, you guys talking all these numbers,,whew i am just getting my first hot wire running,,, there is alot to learn here,,, well actually i'm waiting on the bulbs now,, but if this is going to help,, i'm in!!!! you guys are great thanks for the tips
> 
> ocharry


 its weird... i considered myself a die-hard LED guy... once I hoped into this forum though... I was blown away by how amazing these lights are... 

they are a lot upfront in cost.. but they are so much cheaper per lumen compared to LED's...


----------



## Pumaman (Sep 7, 2006)

round two!!!

3C Mag ROP 1400 + Pelican 3854 Lead Acid "Big D" Low Bulb + medium orange peel reflector from Fivemega.

before, next to HDS U60(sold my reference P1 today ) 






after 20-25 sec frost






new beam is PERFECT






btw you guys can also get Armour Etch from Joannes through Amazon.com

and Jar, glad I can help. I'm only a nerd standing on the shoulders of nerds who stood on the shoulders of other nerds.:thumbsup:


----------



## Warhoggie (Sep 8, 2006)

Man I been away for waaaaaay too long. But good to see more people doing this! Have fun guys, but do be careful.


----------



## jar3ds (Sep 22, 2006)

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang.......

 just did this to one of my 5cell magnum bulbs and PRESTO! Perfect beam... I'm acually really shocked... i left the paste on there for about 25 seconds or so... then did it again for about 15seconds (did the whole 'do it twice' thing for strength  )... And It hardly frosted the bulb... but when i assembled it... sure enough... perfect beam... 

thanks for all on this thread... its a very good mod


----------



## pizzaman (Sep 22, 2006)

Since I've taken up frosting, I've quit sputtering. 

Frosting the bulb is such a quick and easy mod (especially compared to sputtering) and IMHO provides slightly better results (smaller hotspot/more throw).

I thought I was finished with sputtering till I tried my first MagLED upgrade bulb. What an improvement to the Mag 2C!. It is very white and bright, but like the incan, has too many artifacts. I can't frost the LED, so I swapped out one of my sputtered reflectors. Sweet.

For me:
Frosting is now manditory on incans.
Sputtering is now manditory for MagLEDs.
Clear contact paper covers any of the other odd configurations that need diffusing, but can't easily be covered by sputtering or frosting.

Cheers, TR


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Sep 22, 2006)

As I've been frosting for some time now, I take the diffused (Writeright mostly) lenses from those lights for my M*gleds.

I don't have many incans that aren't frosted anymore!


----------



## snakebite (Sep 23, 2006)

for some odd reason michaels crafts dont carry the 3oz size anymore.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7394691867&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT
is the best deal i found online.
dammit you hooked me!


----------



## ocharry (Sep 23, 2006)

well boys,, i had my mag 2c-3cr123 with a KPR113 frosted bulb outside in the woods playing with it tonight,,,,,first time outside with it,,,,been playing with it in the house while waiting on some magnum star bulbs that haven't gotton here yet ,, damn it's been 3 weeks,,,anyway i couldn't believe this thing,,,, it was almost pitch black and i was using a small red led ,,,, man i hit the switch and holy #$&%% i blinded myself ,,,, this place is the coolest,,, i tell ya for a small package and the cost,,,,, it's a smoker,,,,lots of throw and a nice center hot spot....... thanks for all the cool ideas,,,,, i think i AM HOOKED

ocharry


----------



## waynejitsu (Oct 1, 2006)

Hi guy's,

Yes, I am new

I am VERY VERY interested in this "mod".

I have several MG lights and Stingers that I would like to get a better beam from, especially the Stinger HP!! (looks like bat wings)

Would this work with the 40,000 HP Stinger bulb?
Top half or bottom half?
If bottom, how exactly do you do it to the bottom?
Do you wash the cream off in water?
Does it not "hurt" the bulb to get it wet when rinsing?

Thank you for any info!!


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 8, 2006)

No offense, but I always thought that the Poor man's Surefire perfect beam was a Brinkmann Maxfire LX.

In a brick & mortar store:

Maxfire = $17

Surefire P6 = $120


----------



## KEW (Oct 25, 2006)

FYI if you have access to a sand blasting machine the same effect can be obtained. It is however, most delicate. I turned the pressure down to 25 psi and used a glass bead compound, it turned out marvelous. That is if you like frosted bulbs.


----------



## Kestrel (Dec 22, 2009)

Just wanted to bump this thread after finding it via _Search_. I've *just* used this method on a few Pelican bulbs and it works great - sorry no beamshots yet, they were for other friends' lights, but once I get another incan set up for myself, I'll post a few. I've been doing only the lower half of each bulb BTW (as in post # 14, lower pic, and post # 19) as the problem hotspots are from the reflector image of the filament, from what I understand. The spill appeared to be unchanged, as I am leaving the upper ~half of the bulb unfrosted. 


nemul said:


>


 


nemul said:


> I think the one with the bottom frosted would work great... smooth out the filament reflection while letting full brightness out the frount of the bulb... just get the frosting past the filament then leave the rest of the top open..


 
I'm wondering if this 'half-etch' would make the potential heat issue worse or better - overall heat in the glass bulb envelope would be less than with a complete etch, but then there is the issue of a thermal gradient as well... :thinking:

In short, highly recommended, but be darn careful with that chemical etch (it contains HF acid) - I'm wearing a lot of protective gear including a face shield when I'm doing this - remember that these can be high-pressure bulbs.

So far I have a frosted Pelican 3854*-L* in active use, I'll report if there are any issues. After thinking about the potential heat issue and high-pressure bulbs cited earlier in this thread, I'm not sure about doing the -H's though...


----------



## Tempest UK (Dec 22, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> In a brick & mortar store:
> 
> Maxfire = $17
> 
> Surefire P6 = $120



6Ps cost $120 in 2006?!

I don't remember that  

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Helliant1 (Oct 13, 2017)

Warhoggie said:


> "I got this idea after my friend's store was tagged"




I am curious as to way you came up with this idea after your friend's store was tagged. What are the circumstances that led to the discovery of frosting a flashlight bulb in the first place?


----------



## Warhoggie (Jun 20, 2020)

Hello Helliant1,
You post this on Oct-13-2017...
Today, it's Jun-19-2020...I guess I have been away from this forum for awhile! LOL!

To answer your question, I was helping to clean the store windows that were tagged. At the time, I did not realized that acid was used to etched graffiti onto the glass. Scrubbing would not take it off! After googling the phenomenon , I was fascinated that acid can do that to glass. Long story short, I found out that people have been staining glass with acid as a hobby. Just thought I try it out on glass bulbs.

Cheers!


----------

