# Surefire Beast 2 and Hellfire



## EVAN_TAD (Oct 30, 2006)

Does anybody own one yet?


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## NAW (Oct 31, 2006)

Hmmm... your question is kind of vague.

Is there something you would like to know? Would you like to get one?  

Okay I think that second question was a bit unneccesary.  

I seen some people who own those lights, but not much. Those lights as bright as they are, are expensive, and the newer HID lights that are coming out (like the Helios, and the Xeray to name a few) are starting to easily outshine Surefire's HID lights at a fraction of the price.


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## wakemare (Oct 31, 2006)

*The Beast 2*

just curious if any one here has one or if they have seen one in real life... i dunno US$4500 for a flashlight... seems a bit stiff...:huh:


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## Size15's (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: The Beast 2*

I know that Shelby Chan has handled a Beast 2 recently. I've handled one at the last SHOT Show. I don't know anybody who owns a Beast 2.
It is a military/gov/law enforcement tool and not intended for public market.
I have no doubt the price is reasonable for what you need it for [if that is, you do need it]. I assume that if the price is a concern to the user the need is not sufficient.

In my opinion products such as the Beast 2 and HellFighter are made for those who need them and cost what they cost. Not priced for those who want them.

Al


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## Mark2 (Oct 31, 2006)

Al, everything any military around the world purchases is paid for by regular citizens, by taxpayers like you and me. It is therefore 100% legitimate to question pricing of products sold to the military, in fact pricing of such items should be analyzed and questioned even more than "normal" products sold on the civil market. No consumer must buy them after all, but we are all forced to pay for the things our military purchases.

Are the prices of Surefire lights reasonable? IMHO, some are, some are not. The C2 for example seems to be okay, the Kroma on the other hand is totally over the top. You get a Luxeon III and 16 3mm LEDs, each with 2 levels and current regulation for $300? Then the people in Denmark who make the Wiseled Tactical must be masters of efficiency, since for ~$470, you get 7 (!) K2 Luxeons with current regulation, 12 levels, strobe, SOS, a 53Wh Li-Ion battery, all of it in an ultra-tough aluminum body with awesome magnetic switches, dive rated to 300 feet. I like the Kroma very much, but when I received the Wiseled Tactical, I once again realized how totally off some of Surefire's prices are. If Surefire were able to produce a light like the Tactical, it would cost at least $2000, probably more.

As for the Beast 2, I never had the opportunity to test one, I will therefore not comment on its price.


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## NAW (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: The Beast 2*



Size15's said:


> I have no doubt the price is reasonable for what you need it for [if that is, you do need it].


 
In a way I have to disaggre. I mean the Beast 2 is over $4000 and my $500 32/50W Rayzorlite HID can outthrow the Beast 2. (from the pictures I seen)

Theres also the 40W Helios, and 75W Barnburner (just to name a few) that can easily outshine the Beast 2 at a fraction of the price. Heck I think the Barnburner would be able to outhrow the Beast and Hellfire combined. 

Look at post number 84 to see what I mean. Heres the Helios against the Beast.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/126818&page=3

Although these other HID lights don't have the laser imprinting words "SUREFIRE" on them... doesn't mean they are not better.


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## leprechaun414 (Oct 31, 2006)

There are those lights that can "outshine" the Beast and and the Hellfire BUT, they don't have the stamina of the Surefires. The Beast is designed to be mounted and fired from a machine gun and the Hellfire from a tank. Try that with your BB or Helio and you would be lucky to still have anything left working. Surefires are built for abuse and punishment and designed to keep things going.
The price comes to represent this. If I was looking for as a flashaholic massive beams and lumens to play around with I would look for something cheaper. As far as the question if someone has one or both of these lights, I would love to find out some info myself. Beamshots would be a +. Maybe a passaround :naughty:


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## NAW (Oct 31, 2006)

leprechaun414 said:


> Beast is designed to be mounted and fired from a machine gun and the Hellfire from a tank.


 
Just so you know the Beast isn't meant to operate on a machine gun. And the Hellfire wasn't meant to be mounted on a tank.

Specifically the Beast isn't designed what so-ever to be used with a gun. Its supposed to be a hand held HID light.  

The Hellfire on the other hand isn't supposed to be mounted on a tank but on the M2 50 caliber machine guns(those type of guns can be seen on the Hummers and on choopers)

I have a Rayzorlite HID and I'm impressed with it. I seen videos of the Rayzorlite being tossed and abused and still working. Although I personally don't want to see such things happening to any of my flashlights. 

Also I personally don't know much about the durabillity of other HID lights like the BB or Helios. I know the Helios is aerospace grade aluminum (6061 T6) with a Type III Hard Ano finish (that is what Ken said)


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## leprechaun414 (Oct 31, 2006)

Ya I know the Hellfire is designed to be mounted to heavy machine guns and I have seen some photos of them on a tank, and the Beast doesnt have a light machine gun mount but im sure could be modified. The Helios does look like a pretty durable combat style light so I wouldnt compare it with a BB. I wouldnt want to mount your Razorlight to a heavy gun unless you insure it but it would be pretty cool dont you think:naughty:


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## EVAN_TAD (Nov 1, 2006)

I am thinking about selling my Beast and getting the Beast 2 when or if it comes out.
It has everythng the first model should've had when it came out. Carry strap, and rubber to protect it from drops.



Mark2 said:


> Al, everything any military around the world purchases is paid for by regular citizens, by taxpayers like you and me. It is therefore 100% legitimate to question pricing of products sold to the military, in fact pricing of such items should be analyzed and questioned even more than "normal" products sold on the civil market. No consumer must buy them after all, but we are all forced to pay for the things our military purchases.



It's not quite that easy. Sometimes there is a 'use it or lose it' regarding unit money. You can order stuff through the supply system or directly from various civilian sources.


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## NAW (Nov 1, 2006)

EVAN_TAD said:


> I am thinking about selling my Beast and getting the Beast 2 when or if it comes out.


 
The beast 2 has already come out. There is only 2 sites that I know which sell the Beast 2.

http://www.tacticalsupply.com/catalog/1_8_26/surefire-rechargeable-flashlig.php

and

http://www.tacticalsupply.com/product/516/1_8_26/the-beast-rechargeable.php

http://www.opticshq.com/page/Optics/PROD/Surefire-HID/B1R-BK


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## Size15's (Nov 1, 2006)

I think that Evan of TAD likely doesn't need to use a dealer to get hold of a Beast 2!


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## wakemare (Nov 1, 2006)

lol, all in all i have no worries with torch prices, just seems a bit steep for commercial applications. but everyone is right, u buy what u need and i dont need a beast, lol i like my gladius thankyouverymuch. but i wanna buy a Wolf Eyes soon, that 300CP one looks delightful 

but yeah, those beast flashlights sure the hell r nice tho. god. i want EVERY flashlight man!!!!:naughty:


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## EVAN_TAD (Nov 1, 2006)

Mark2 said:


> Al, everything any military around the world purchases is paid for by regular citizens, by taxpayers like you and me. It is therefore 100% legitimate to question pricing of products sold to the military, in fact pricing of such items should be analyzed and questioned even more than "normal" products sold on the civil market. No consumer must buy them after all, but we are all forced to pay for the things our military purchases.



I guess you were never in the military as a California citizen being stationed in the state has to pay federal and state taxes (unless in a combat zone, then there is no federal tax). So in essence, military personnel pay for their own equipment.

Since when has regular citizens questioned what uncle sam bought?


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## Size15's (Nov 2, 2006)

The price of the HellFighter has been discussed before here on CPF. I drew the conclusion from that discussion that once it is better understood just how difficult it is to make a light durable etc under the conditions it is demanded to be used, and just how complex the surrounding issues such as designing mounts to secure it to various weapon platforms etc, there is less shock at the price SureFire are stating they cost.

Lets try not to get into a discussion here about 'Government employees being tax-payers themselves and therefore self-employed...' (a topic for a Cafe thread perhaps?), nor a discussion about the cost of things procured by Government-funded organisations etc.

Thank,
Al


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## ShortArc (Nov 2, 2006)

Evan,
If you make the switch to the Beast 2, please post your findings. I have considered doing the same but have not been able to equate the benefits to price point (may be mood point).
Willem.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 2, 2006)

Size15's said:


> The price of the HellFighter has been discussed before here on CPF. I drew the conclusion from that discussion that once it is better understood just how difficult it is to make a light durable etc under the conditions it is demanded to be used, and just how complex the surrounding issues such as designing mounts to secure it to various weapon platforms etc, there is less shock at the price SureFire are stating they cost.



QFT....but $4,160 is still a pretty hefty price IMHO.


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## Size15's (Nov 2, 2006)

Perhaps if you order 100, or 1000 there is a discount for even a small bulk order like that?
Buying one of anything is usually more expensive compared to buying a multipack after all


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## leprechaun414 (Nov 2, 2006)

Is Al maybe starting to think about posting a thread about a group buy for either of these lights? :naughty: I know wishfull thinking.


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## NAW (Nov 3, 2006)

Size15's said:


> I drew the conclusion from that discussion that once it is better understood just how difficult it is to make a light durable etc under the conditions it is demanded to be used, and just how complex the surrounding issues such as designing mounts to secure it to various weapon platforms etc, there is less shock at the price SureFire are stating they cost.


 
Uh oh... looks like Polarion is gonna give Surefire some serious competition!

Polarion is working on weapon mounts for there 4000 lumen Helios.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/139719

I wonder how the Helios will compare to Hellfire?

The Helios is 4000 lumens, and the Hellfire is 3000 lumens. The Helios is 40W, and the Hellfire is 35W. The Helios is around half the weight of the Hellfire. Hmmm... :lolsign:


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## XeRay (Nov 3, 2006)

So much for the superior engineering of the Hellfire. My army contacts tell me that many Hellfire failures (internal electronics) have occured, more than they think is reasonable.


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## Size15's (Nov 3, 2006)

Well I'm sure all this competition should make SureFire try harder


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## Sway (Nov 3, 2006)

Eh’ if I was behind a 50 gun with an effective range of 2000+ meters I would want more light and throw than a 35W HID with a small reflector, it’s more like a beacon for small arms to shoot here for maximum effect. 

Just my 2 cents worth 

Later
Kelly


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 3, 2006)

Sway said:


> Eh’ if I was behind a 50 gun with an effective range of 2000+ meters I would want more light and throw than a 35W HID with a small reflector, it’s more like a beacon for small arms to shoot here for maximum effect.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth
> 
> ...



How about just using a tactical nuke? You get effective kills, and a nice bright light. No messy HIDs to get in the way.


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## leprechaun414 (Nov 4, 2006)

I like Luxluthor's "Nuke" idea. You will need some lights after the dust clears and you have no electricity. An HID could be usefull then :naughty:


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## 276 (Nov 9, 2006)

another site that sells the m is www.lapolicegear.com


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## Jumpmaster (Nov 10, 2006)

276 said:


> another site that sells the m is www.lapolicegear.com



As with any vendor, it would behoove potential buyers to do a search on here under cheers/jeers before making a buying decision.

JM-99


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## benchmade_boy (Jan 6, 2007)

i have a good budy that got to hold and play with one in the denver gun show. he said the guy was selling one and was keeping the other for a private collection(wonder if he is here on cpf?) and the other he was sellling for like 4,300 i think. he said it was very bright, heavy, and very white, not blue like leds nor yellow like an incandecent.


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## NAW (Jan 6, 2007)

benchmade_boy said:


> he said it was very bright, heavy, and very white, not blue like leds nor yellow like an incandecent.


 
Hmm this got me thinking...

Does anybody know the Kelvin rating on the Sf Beast II?


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## seery (Jan 6, 2007)

I've had the Beast II on order for several months but nothing as of yet. Last
word from SF was that initial units were to start shipping March 1st, 2007. 

No complaints here regarding the price of the Beast II. I'm more than happy to
pay that price for a light of this amazing quality and ruggedness. All of this AND
a full lifetime warranty!

Again, *THANK YOU SUREFIRE* for your continued success in supplying us with
the absolute *finest illumination tools *in the world.

Evan - Any word/updates on the Mini-Beast?



EVAN_TAD said:


> Does anybody own one yet?


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## schrenz (Jan 7, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Mark2*
_Al, everything any military around the world purchases is paid for by regular citizens, by taxpayers like you and me. It is therefore 100% legitimate to question pricing of products sold to the military, in fact pricing of such items should be analyzed and questioned even more than "normal" products sold on the civil market. No consumer must buy them after all, but we are all forced to pay for the things our military purchases. _




EVAN_TAD said:


> I guess you were never in the military as a California citizen being stationed in the state has to pay federal and state taxes (unless in a combat zone, then there is no federal tax). So in essence, military personnel pay for their own equipment.
> 
> Since when has regular citizens questioned what *uncle sam* bought?


 
Have a look at Mark's location  
I guess also in US-Army Heavy-weapon equipment is not paid by the GIs?
best 
Jens


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## seery (Jan 24, 2007)

This info is according to Oliver, a SF rep, whom I spoke with yesterday.

He stated the Beast II's have been shipping to our military for a few months
now and they just recently started shipping units to dealers with back-orders
for civilian sales. He didn't have access at hand as to which dealers have
received these initial shipments.

So the time is finally getting close(r). Anybody else have one on order?

Just thought I'd pass along the great news!:rock: 


EVAN_TAD said:


> Does anybody own one yet?


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