# Bulb Options for IMR26500's



## roadie (Feb 15, 2009)

*What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

with the upcoming of IMR 26500 cells to replace the old 26550 lions.

what can i run them with? 

there must be plenty options out there other than the 1185?

setup is with SF KT turbohead + FM socket + 3 x 26500 = ??


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## leukos (Feb 15, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

If you could go with 4x IMR C cells, you could consider several of the 12V Osram lamps (5000-6000 lumens). https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179748


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## lctorana (Feb 15, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

Will they fit in an unbored C Maglite?


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## DM51 (Feb 15, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

26500 is standard C-size, so unless they are larger than that, which would be an extremely unlikely mistake for AW to make, the answer is yes.


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## lctorana (Feb 15, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

OK, accepted. I won't labour the point.


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## monkeyboy (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

With 3 x 17670, the 1185 can instaflash in some cases. 3 x IMR26500 will instaflash for sure with 1185 due to lower internal resistance. I'm not sure if soft start would help at all, you might need to use a regulator of some sort.

The 64623 should be well suited to 4 cells.

The 64432 IRC and 64440 IRC should be good with 5 cells.


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## lctorana (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



monkeyboy said:


> With 3 x 17670, the 1185 can instaflash in some cases. 3 x IMR26500 will instaflash for sure with 1185 due to lower internal resistance. I'm not sure if soft start would help at all, you might need to use a regulator of some sort.


I see your point.

Just done some calculations, based on the imposition of a 1 ohm NTC, and assuming NO resistance mods.

The internal resistance of a Maglite has been previously estimated on this forum as 0.177 ohms, so adding to that the NTC resistance at that current of about 0.13 ohms, I reckon that, even if the cells hold up at 4.11V each under load, the 1185 will then see about 11.3V, a full volt below the flashpoint. And of course only about 9.3V on initial switchon with cold NTC.

But all this depends upon the Maglite having that much internal resistance. One new out of the packet might have less...


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## DM51 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

There was some good research done on NTCs by LuxLuthor, and IIRC the problem he highlighted is that there is wide variance in performance, even between 2 pcs with the same specs.

I'm sure Monkeyboy is right about 3x26500 flashing a WA1185. This is a general problem with IMR cells, that there will be less voltage sag than with the equivalent size LiCo cells.


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## roadie (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



leukos said:


> If you could go with 4x IMR C cells ....


 
but i already got the FM C host ...


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## cenz (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



roadie said:


> but i already got the FM C host ...



FM "C" extender I hope...

BigLeef $urefire series is currently perfect solution for multiple cells...

and... some of super bulbs will not fit into the neck of SF turbohead.


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## Sampolainen (Feb 20, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

Mmm... I'm thinking mag623 in a 3c or 4c size


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## zehnmm (Apr 17, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



monkeyboy said:


> With 3 x 17670, the 1185 can instaflash in some cases. 3 x IMR26500 will instaflash for sure with 1185 due to lower internal resistance. I'm not sure if soft start would help at all, you might need to use a regulator of some sort.
> 
> The 64623 should be well suited to 4 cells.
> 
> The 64432 IRC and 64440 IRC should be good with 5 cells.


 
I agree with monkeyboy's post about the IRC options. Luxluthor's excellent bulb tests show some good possibilities.

What do you folks think about 5x IMR26500's in a 4D body, high temp kiu switch, FM reflector, boro lens, and, say the IRC 65W Osram bulb? Right now I have IRC 35W, 50W, and 65W bulbs along with the other components. Do not have the 26500's yet.

(Sometime back before I got really addicted to the hotwire bug, I would run 5x C alkalines in the 4D body to overdrive the stock 4D bulb. Sure looks like to me that the 26500s are close to the same size as alkaline Cs based on AWs specs.)



Thanks!


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## Benson (Apr 17, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



zehnmm said:


> I agree with monkeyboy's post about the IRC options. Luxluthor's excellent bulb tests show some good possibilities.
> 
> What do you folks think about 5x IMR26500's in a 4D body, high temp kiu switch, FM reflector, boro lens, and, say the IRC 65W Osram bulb? Right now I have IRC 35W, 50W, and 65W bulbs along with the other components. Do not have the 26500's yet.


The 65W just _might_ insta in a fully modded Mag, but with a soft-start it'd be fine for certain, and I bet it would be OK without. The 50W would do great, and would squeeze out enough runtime for me to consider it a very practical light for night walks. The 35W...  it's _only_ gonna make a couple kilolumens -- and really, it deserves a 6-cell setup to use its full potential. The 50W and 65W should both do quite nice in an unregulated 5-cell.

One thought: that looks like a sweet build in a 4D, but if you could find a 5C tube, I think it'd be _even better_...


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## SilentK (Apr 17, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

Wow. I see some good things that might come out of these cells. :devil: Soon i might have to make sure the fire department is on standby before i fire up any of my lights. i have a nice 12v 100w bulb in mind. lovecpf


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 17, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

You can try an WA1166 (11.6V, 1.97A), which runs fine on three Li-Co C-cells, albeit only overdriven for maybe the first 20 minutes. The IMR26500 hold their voltage better so it should remain overdriven longer. The beam from this lamp really is beautiful.


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## Kestrel (Apr 17, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



Gunnerboy said:


> You can try an WA1166 (11.6V, 1.97A), which runs fine on three Li-Co C-cells, albeit only overdriven for maybe the first 20 minutes. The IMR26500 hold their voltage better so it should remain overdriven longer. The beam from this lamp really is beautiful.


That bulb is only doing ~700 lumens at that voltage if I'm correct?
God, I can't believe I'm saying that, only ~700 lumens...


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 17, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

Yep, "only" ~700 (white-hot) lumens, and it fits roadie's FM 3C host, and it won't instaflash. If that's not bright enough, then I'd stick with the 1185 with a soft-start.


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## Kestrel (Apr 17, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



Gunnerboy said:


> Yep, "only" ~700 (white-hot) lumens, and it fits roadie's FM 3C host, and it won't instaflash. If that's not bright enough, then I'd stick with the 1185 with a soft-start.


LOL, it isn't roadie's host anymore, I just bought it on CPF/M.


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## KiwiMark (Apr 19, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



zehnmm said:


> What do you folks think about 5x IMR26500's in a 4D body, high temp kiu switch, FM reflector, boro lens, and, say the IRC 65W Osram bulb? Right now I have IRC 35W, 50W, and 65W bulbs along with the other components. Do not have the 26500's yet.



This sounds similar to what I am putting together, except I am going to use an AW soft start switch. I have everything I need except the 26500 cells - they should arrive this week. I have some 64458 bulbs (90W) that should draw about 180W and output ~6000 Lumen when used with 5 x 26500 IMR cells.

I am looking forward to powering this sucker up!


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## roadie (Apr 19, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



Kestrel said:


> LOL, it isn't roadie's host anymore, I just bought it on CPF/M.


 

and i jus sent it to him a few hrs ago ............ :ironic:


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## gswitter (Apr 24, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



DM51 said:


> 26500 is standard C-size, so unless they are larger than that, which would be an extremely unlikely mistake for AW to make...


Indeed. :shakehead

Here we go again...


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## KiwiMark (Apr 25, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



KiwiMark said:


> This sounds similar to what I am putting together, except I am going to use an AW soft start switch. I have everything I need except the 26500 cells - they should arrive this week. I have some 64458 bulbs (90W) that should draw about 180W and output ~6000 Lumen when used with 5 x 26500 IMR cells.
> 
> I am looking forward to powering this sucker up!



Wow! This sucker is bright! (and hot, can light newspaper in less than 2 seconds). I don't have to shine it in my eyes to be blinded, looking at the beam on anything white is pretty darn intense! The ceiling bounce can light up a decent sized room VERY well.

I am getting about 10.07A on fresh batteries and about 9.7A after playing with this for a bit. That is about 190+W initially and dropping down to around 170W. Of course I don't let the cells get too flat before recharging - they aren't protected and the AW switch has no low-voltage cutoff.

These IMR 26500 cells certainly kick some butt!


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Apr 26, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

Has anyone considered using a Osram 64430(35w) with 3x26500 and a AW switch.On med it should produce about 300lm. but on high(taking resistance into account) it should be putting out over 1500lm.(over 2000lm. if careful)I have several laying around(I think the originals from Germany?)and would love to test this setup out but would like to know if it is feasible.


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## KiwiMark (Apr 26, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



ANDREAS FERRARI said:


> Has anyone considered using a Osram 64430(35w) with 3x26500 and a AW switch.On med it should produce about 300lm. but on high(taking resistance into account) it should be putting out over 1500lm.(over 2000lm. if careful)I have several laying around(I think the originals from Germany?)and would love to test this setup out but would like to know if it is feasible.



Check this thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=179748

This is the bulb you are talking about:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/64430-Osram.jpg

On 2 x 26500 this bulb will work for over 200 hours, but on 3 x 26500 
Fresh of the charger the IMR cells will be over 4 volts, even after resting for a couple of hours the 3 IMR cells will have over 11 volts between them.


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Apr 26, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*

Thank you for your input KiwiMark.Something to consider when consulting LuxLuther's Destructive Incan Bulb Test:Lux tested bulbs by applying current directly to the bulb with no resistance.In real use a flashlight has some resistance-the tail spring,battery holder,switch,etc.If after resting,3x26500 cells might be putting out 12v(?)-but voltage at the switch might be less than 11v.Since I have no way of knowing how much resistance there is in an AW switch I can only guess at what voltage level the batteries would have to be at to flash a 64430.


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## KiwiMark (Apr 26, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



ANDREAS FERRARI said:


> Thank you for your input KiwiMark.Something to consider when consulting LuxLuther's Destructive Incan Bulb Test:Lux tested bulbs by applying current directly to the bulb with no resistance.In real use a flashlight has some resistance-the tail spring,battery holder,switch,etc.If after resting,3x26500 cells might be putting out 12v(?)-but voltage at the switch might be less than 11v.Since I have no way of knowing how much resistance there is in an AW switch I can only guess at what voltage level the batteries would have to be at to flash a 64430.



The bulbs aren't expensive, if you have a few lying around you could try one - maybe run the light on low or medium for a minute first to drain off the peak charge and then put it on high. If it goes  then you know the bulb is getting too many volts.

I have about 8 of these:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/56580Tungsram.jpg
So if you do try it then post here so I know if it would be worth trying one in my Mag 3D. I have some protected D cells which would have more resistance than the IMR cells, so my 35W bulbs may last better than yours (If the amps aren't too high and trip the protection circuit). My main problem at the moment is that I don't have a spare driver, once Alan B gets his programmable regulated driver done then I will put one of them in my Elephant II (8 x IMR 18650) body and I could then use the AW driver from that in my Mag 3D. In my 2D I have tried a 64430 and could see that it needed more volts, if I were using NiMH cells then I would probably try 7 or 8 cells (another option for my 3D, 9 AA cell battery holder with 1 or 2 dummy cells, except that I like using LiIon more).


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Apr 27, 2009)

*Re: What can i run with 3 x C IMR 26500*



KiwiMark said:


> The bulbs aren't expensive, if you have a few lying around you could try one - maybe run the light on low or medium for a minute first to drain off the peak charge and then put it on high. If it goes  then you know the bulb is getting too many volts.



I was thinking the same thing-bleed the batteries first-like some Mag85 setups I have seen.I don't have an AW switch but do have a couple of his protected C li-ions.This bulb draws too many amps and would trip the circuit.Like yourself I'm waiting for AlanB to offer his switches.The first light I'm building will use this bulb.I am tempted to build a C-Mag64430 first because I simply like the way it feels in my hand.


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## ElectronGuru (Apr 28, 2009)

With little to no sag under high amp loads, these super cells are Mack Truck's, running over most bulbs without stopping:


*2x - IMR26500* (7.4 - 8.4 volts)
3854 ROP Low - GOOD
3854 ROP High -  (0.2 under?)
3853 ROP Low - GOOD
3853 ROP High - GOOD
Philips 5761 -  (0.5 over)
WA 1111 -  (0.1 over)
WA 1274 - GOOD (9.1 limit)
Osram 64250 -  (0.3 over)
Osram 64275 -  (0.3 over)
Osram 64430 - GOOD (10.9 limit)


*3x - IMR26500* (11.1 - 12.6 volts)
WA 1331 -  (0.6 over)
WA 1185 -  (0.3 over) 
WA 1166 - GOOD (14.1 limit)


*4x - IMR26500* (14.8 - 16.8 volts)
Osram 64610 - 
Osram 62138 - 
Osram 64625 - 
Osram 64623 - GOOD (16.9 limit)
Osram 64458 - GOOD (21.5 limit)​

Without resorting to regulation, what Mag/G4 bulbs can take it?


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## Benson (Apr 28, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> Without resorting to regulation, what Mag/G4 bulbs can take it?


Well, you can have soft-start without regulation; I assume the above results are without soft-start? If so, some of the s might work nicely...


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 28, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> With little to no sag under high amp loads, these super cells are Mack Truck's, running over most bulbs without stopping:
> 2x - IMR26500
> 3854 ROP Low - good
> 3854 ROP High -
> ...




In another thread I suggested the 1166 (Bi-Pin *WA 01166:* 11.6v 1.97a @ spec (704 b-lumens) / 12.5v (914 b-lumens) with 3xIMR26500's. This setup should be as bright as the 1331, and have the same color temperature for the first 20 minutes or so.


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## GreyShark (Apr 28, 2009)

I was running an 1185 on 3x protected 18650 because I wanted a bright light that wouldn't  with batteries fresh off the charger and I'm not sure I want to invest in AW's Mag switch yet. Long story short I got ahold of 3x 26700's because I wanted more run time. The 1185 was okay on the batteries as shipped but when I topped them up on my charger the bulb went

On the same day I received some 1166's I'd been waiting on so I decided to try them out with the new batteries. I was very impressed! The 1166 seemed as bright for all intents and purposes as the 1185 was with the aforementioned setup. I don't know if it was purely color temperature of if it's got something to do with the smaller filament of the 1166 but it seemed to throw a bit farther than the 1185 did. Best of all the 1166 is only drawing around 2 amps so I should be seeing near 1.5 hours of runtime off the 3000mah 26700's.

So yeah, I'd definitely recommend the 1166 driven by 3x 26500's as a useful very bright light. The 1166 can handle the voltage and it gives you a lot of output for your mah's. You won't get the same runtime with 26500's that you will with 26700's but you will get a light that's almost 2 inches shorter.


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 28, 2009)

Spec is 11.6V for the 1166, so running IMR26500's it'll be overdriven (and screaming white) for a substantial portion of the runtime. I have plenty of 1166's, but none of the cells yet.


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## Jay T (Apr 28, 2009)

Using 4xIMR2650 the 64138 and the 64625 didn't stand a chance. Even with a stock tailspring and cells that rested about 4 hrs it was still instant death.

The 64623 had no such problems and ran nice and bright.


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## ElectronGuru (Apr 28, 2009)

Am I reading this right?:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/64458.jpg

4 cells off the charger push about 16.8v
An Osram 64458 at 17v is about 6000 lumen?
If it can survive 5 cells, its almost twice that at only half the max amperage rating for IMR26500's


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Apr 29, 2009)

Just a guess-5x26500=21v minus minimal sag minus internal flashlight resistance(?) = 19v+(?). Still around 9000lm.I really hope someone gives this a try.


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## lctorana (Apr 29, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:



> With little to no sag under high amp loads, these super cells are Mack Truck's, running over most bulbs without stopping


Thanks for your efforts, WatchMan. This must be costing you a fortune!



ElectronGuru said:


> Without resorting to regulation, what Mag/G4 bulbs can take it?


Let's look at Mag bulbs for a moment.
The 6-cell Krypton ("WhiteStar LWSA601") is 7.5V 0.7A
The 6-cell Xenon ("MagStar Xenon LMSA601") is 7.6V 0.77A

Reputedly, the Krypton bulb tolerates overdrive that the Xenon does not.

Maglites are recommended for Alkaline battery use, and 6 good, fresh alkaline D cells will, even under a 0.75A load, deliver a full 9V.
_(It doesn't stay that high very long, but that's neither here nor there for this discussion.)_

Now since there are no reports of 6D Mags instaflashing bulbs with fresh cells, we can safely conclude that both bulbs can tolerate 9V.

And since these new 26500 cells should not be charged beyond 4.2V, I feel safe to conclude that both the abovementioned 6-cell bulbs will be 100% safe for 2x26500 use. Plus the Krypton 5-cell bulb in all probability.

There is also the Pelican 8W #3804 "Big D Alkaline" bulb, which should be midway between the 6-cell Mag Xenon and the #3853 RoP-Low in output.

Just some idle thoughts.


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## KiwiMark (Apr 29, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> *4x - IMR26500* (14.8 - 16.8 volts)
> Osram 64610 -
> Osram 62138 -
> Osram 64625 -
> ...


​ In my 4D I have 5 x IMR26500 and fresh off the charger they don't blow my 64458 bulb. They make it glow pretty bright though!


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## Jay T (Apr 29, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> Am I reading this right?:
> http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/64458.jpg
> 
> 4 cells off the charger push about 16.8v
> ...



I don't think you can count on the cells delivering 4.2V under load, even IMRs will sag.

Here.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205814&highlight=safe

You can see some discharge graphs for IMR18650s done by LuxLuthor and AW. If the Cs at 10A can perform as good as the 18650s at 5A they will start at just under 4V and drop from there.


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## zehnmm (Apr 29, 2009)

Jay T said:


> I don't think you can count on the cells delivering 4.2V under load, even IMRs will sag.
> 
> Here.
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205814&highlight=safe
> ...


 

I agree. It looks to me, assuming similar performance to the 18650IMR, the curve at 10A would start at 3.7-4.2V, drop to 3.4V or so at the 0.5 AmpHour level, all the way to 3.1-3.2V in the latter part of the run. Assuming that the 26500's perform better than the 18650's at 10A, then you still have the voltage in the 3.3 to 3.5 area during a run.

As KiwiMark pointed out, some bulbs will blow at certain voltage levels. Moreover, just about any bulb will have to survive the initial higher voltage at start-up even though they could survive during the middle part of the run. Hence: projects like Winny's PIR, AWR's hotdriver, AW's soft-start, and the like. The 64610, one of the whitest and brightest out there, simply cannot live through the higher early voltages. I have an AWR hotdriver set for 13.0V and the 64610 runs great with it.

Regards.


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## Jay T (Apr 29, 2009)

I just loaded my 2C ROP with IMR Cs and fired her up. No problem, just some bright light. I did not use the cells hot off of the charger, they were allowed to rest for 30-45 min at which point they were both at 4.17 V.

My 2C has the switch spring bypassed and a stock tail spring.

For the ROP I think we need more data.


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## KiwiMark (Apr 29, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> Am I reading this right?:
> http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/64458.jpg
> 
> 4 cells off the charger push about 16.8v
> ...



I don't think it is really 6000 at 17V - that is just the predicted Lumen from the AWR Hotrater, it means that in theory the output should be about 9000 Lumen. If you look at the yellow column you can see the predicted Lumen calculated from the actual lux measurements. This suggests that at 17V you only get a measly 4678 Lumen, you'd be practically in the dark! :laughing:

With 5 cells the bulb definitely survives, at least it does through the AW SoftStarter switch (I highly recommend this). At 18.5 to 19 volts (fresh IMR 26500 under a 10A load) you will get around 6000 Lumen of actual bulb output. With my standard 4D head and OP reflector I have more of a flood than a throw, but with 6000 Lumen the light floods a reasonable distance anyway. Illuminated a close & light coloured object is a pain though - a pain in your eyes, boy this light is bright!

I think I will be lucky to get 20 hours of light from this bulb before . But then again this is my play around 'show off' light and it might take a year or 2 before I rack up 20 hours of use. I mean really - who needs 4000 hours of life from one of these bulbs, 12V is for pansies!

If you want a bright 'show off' torch then the recipe is not that hard:
Take a Maglite 4D torch.
Replace the Mag switch with an AW soft start switch.
Insert an Osram 64458 bulb into the holder.
Replace the plastic reflector with an Aluminium one.
Replace the plastic lens with a glass one.
Pick up some PVC tube from your plumbing/hardware store and cut a length that will fit in the battery tube.
Charge up 5 x IMR 26500 cells and insert in torch.
Turn on torch and be careful not to start a fire or blind anyone!

My next project involves an Elephant II body, 8 x IMR 18650 cells, Alan B's programmable regulated switch & the 64458 bulb. That one will give a regulated output at whatever I program - I am thinking 7500 Lumen, 10.5 Amps, 20.2 Volts, 212 Watts. It should give around 10 hours per bulb.


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## ElectronGuru (May 3, 2009)

Much new bulb activity...




Gunnerboy said:


> In another thread I suggested the 1166 (Bi-Pin *WA 01166:* 11.6v 1.97a @ spec (704 b-lumens) / 12.5v (914 b-lumens) with 3xIMR26500's. This setup should be as bright as the 1331, and have the same color temperature for the first 20 minutes or so.



Comparing 3x26500 pushing an 1166 against 3x16340 pushing a 1331, the 1331 is slightly warmer with a softer hotspot.





Gunnerboy said:


> Spec is 11.6V for the 1166, so running IMR26500's it'll be overdriven (and screaming white) for a substantial portion of the runtime. I have plenty of 1166's, but none of the cells yet.



1166 beam quality with a MOP is outstanding





lctorana said:


> Thanks for your efforts, WatchMan. This must be costing you a fortune!
> 
> Let's look at Mag bulbs for a moment.
> The 6-cell Krypton ("WhiteStar LWSA601") is 7.5V 0.7A
> ...



2x26500 with a 6-cell Xenon is GOOD
2x26500 with a 5-cell Xenon is GOOD
3x26500 with a 6-cell Xenon is  (couldn't help myself)

The 5 cell is slightly brighter, but both are dimmer than the 3853 ROP low. 

The 3853 ROP high is poof free and *amazing* on two of these cells




KiwiMark said:


> My next project involves an Elephant II body, 8 x IMR 18650 cells, Alan B's programmable regulated switch & the 64458 bulb. That one will give a regulated output at whatever I program - I am thinking 7500 Lumen, 10.5 Amps, 20.2 Volts, 212 Watts. It should give around 10 hours per bulb.





What I'm looking for now is a 4-8 amp bulb in the neighborhood of 10.5 volts, to be driven by 3x26500. Something that puts the 1185 to shame and makes these fat IMRs worth their trouble.


BTW, I picked up a case to manage all these &$#& bulbs!:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=194581


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## LuxLuthor (May 3, 2009)

It's a God awful shame that the AlanB regulator is too big for C Mag. Once you bore them out to fit the 26mm cells they would be perfect. AW C Li-Ions are 25.56mm vs. 26500 or 26700 are 26.08 with wrapper removed.


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## Jay T (May 3, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> What I'm looking for now is a 4-8 amp bulb in the neighborhood of 10.5 volts, to be driven by 3x26500. Something that puts the 1185 to shame and makes these fat IMRs worth their trouble.



Well I can tell you that the Westinghouse 00424 will not work. It's a bulb that is not talked about much anymore https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/107571&highlight=04424 . I have used it successfully with 3 LiFePO4 D cells in the past. 

I just tried it with 3 12 hr rested IMR Cs and an AW softstart.  when I went to high.


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## ElectronGuru (May 3, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> It's a God awful shame that the AlanB regulator is too big for C Mag. Once you bore them out to fit the 26mm cells they would be perfect.



The IMR's nature is to overdrive and that regulator's nature is to take overdrive and feed it precisely and on cue. What a stunning setup, like changing the gravitational constant of the universe in order to make something light enough to carry (ST reference). Something like a Mag 3C with 3xIMR26500s, pushing through Alan's regulator toward any bulb you care to load, down to ~6 volts. Wow.

It doesn't sound like a C-sized model is impossible, just not planned. At anything less than twice the price point of AWs regulators, if supply can keep up with demand it should be both popular and successful. Keep that up for a year, and a smaller version would be a no brainer. I for one am happy to wait 18 months for it. In the mean time, I'm learning a ton about normal incan challenges. Paying my dues as it were.





Jay T said:


> Well I can tell you that the Westinghouse 00424 will not work.
> 
> I just tried it with 3 12 hr rested IMR Cs and an AW softstart.  when I went to high.



Bummer, but thanks for trying. I need to get more familiar with the Osram lineup. They seem to be the high amp shop.


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## zehnmm (May 5, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> ...................
> 
> If you want a bright 'show off' torch then the recipe is not that hard:
> Take a Maglite 4D torch.
> ...


 
To build on what KiwiMark stated, I kind of followed the above recipe, except I used an Osram 64447 65W IRC bulb (do not have any 90W 64458's right now); used a KIU high temp switch; and did not use PVC tubing. 

Fired the beast up and voila! This is one bright light! I estimate that I should get 18 to 22 min. runtime, with torch lumens in the 2400 to 3200 area through the run. In the first 15 seconds or so, I am guessing the torch lumens are pushing 4,000. Have not tried to measure actual volts at the bulb to see what the resistance is.

My comparison is my Mag623 setup running with 12aa's. The above 4D/Osram IRC setup is very much brighter. Retina searing, blinding delight. Plus, the use of the IRC bulbs gives less amps (6.0 area versus 10.0) and is therefore a bit less harsh on the light.

Onward!


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## KiwiMark (May 5, 2009)

zehnmm said:


> To build on what KiwiMark stated, I kind of followed the above recipe, except I used an Osram 64447 65W IRC bulb (do not have any 90W 64458's right now)



Sounds good - have you tested the firelighting capabilities?

In my case I am not worried about run time - I get over 2 hours out of my ROP low and have several spare batteries. My Mag458 is a 'show off' toy and a way of lighting a camp fire - although it would make a pretty good floodlight for up to 10 minutes, it certainly lights up an area pretty well with its bright wall of light.

I actually have some 64447 bulbs, so I can switch to the lower amperage if I want to. But as I said - I don't really care about run time on my 'show off' torch.


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## ElectronGuru (May 5, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> It's a God awful shame that the AlanB regulator is too big for C Mag.



Lux speaks, and it is so:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/230793


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## zehnmm (May 12, 2009)

I recently received my order of Osram 64458 90W bulbs and have put one in a 4D with 5x of the new 26500s. My "holder" for the batteries is simply an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper rolled up. Have a KIU switch, FM SMO reflector, boro lens. Have not tried to apply resistance fixes to tailcap.

To echo what KiwiMark has stated in several posts, the 90W 64458 is one bright light! Whew!

Hence, so far, the bulbs that I have tried with 5 batteries include:
o Osram 64432 IRC 35W. Est. 800-1,000 torch lumens/45-50 min. run
o Osram 64440 IRC 50W. Est. 1,800 -2,100 torch lumens/22-25 min.
o Osram 64447 IRC 65W. Est. 2,200-2,600 torch lumens/18-22 min.
o Osram 64458 90W. Est. 2,600-3,000 torch lumens/10-12 min.
o Osram 64633 150W. Est. 3,700-4,500 torch lumens/7-9 min.

As a comparison, my 64610 with 4x of the earlier AW C's in a 3D+extender with AWR-HD gets about 1,400 torch lumens for 31 to 34 min.

So far, my favorite out of the 5 listed is the 65W IRC. But, I have to say that my friends comment about how good the 64610 is. It is still a great hotwire application going on some 3 years old now.

FYI, the only runtime test that I have done is with the 50W IRC, where I got 23 min. in a series of 2 min. runs, kind of like the light is used. Have not tried to measure resistance; however, at other times when I somewhat successfully measured Vbulb vs. Vbattery, the voltage loss to resistance was in the 100 to 150 milliohm area with my setup. This is a tad less than the normal 200 to 250 that I expect for a stock 3D or 4D. I figure 50 to 60 millohms of that are via the tailcap. The KIU switch does cut the resistance down from what it would have been. More extensive testing could narrow down the estimation error naturally present in my projections regarding the voltages and resistance.

So, for example, if Vbat for the IRC 65W bulb is 17v, the actual voltage getting to the bulb is 15.8 - 16.4v. Also, above and beyond that, based on examining the testing for AW's safe chemistry 18650s, I roughly figure that the Vbat starts out at 3.7 - 4.0 per battery, drops to 3.4 to 3.5 at or near the middle part of a run, and then tails off to about 3.2 during the latter half of a run. 5 batteries at 3.2 is still Vbat = 16.0 and probably Vbulb in and around 15.0 toward the end. Not shabby. Of course, AFAIK, new graphs for the 26500 are not yet done, so you will have to take my estimates with that caveat.

I am having a lot of fun!


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## ElectronGuru (May 18, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> This suggests that at 17V you only get a measly 4678 Lumen, you'd be practically in the dark! :laughing:




Mark,

I'm finishing up my 2 and 3 cell configuration building and want to map out the 4 and 5 cell options. What are you favorite 4xIMR26500 and 5xIMR26500 bulbs, both low amp (4-8) and high amp (8+)?


zehnmm,

The 64633 is an amazing bulb. On paper (ignoring sag/resistance) it looks like a 4 cell bulb, but you've got it on 5. Is the runtime any better with 4 or is it a natural fit despite the short time on 5?


Thanks


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## KiwiMark (May 18, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> Mark,
> 
> I'm finishing up my 2 and 3 cell configuration building and want to map out the 4 and 5 cell options. What are you favorite 4xIMR26500 and 5xIMR26500 bulbs, both low amp (4-8) and high amp (8+)?



For 4 cells I would go with the 64623.
For 5 cells I would go with the 64458 (my favourite bulb).
For low amp (~5.5A) I would go with the 64440 on 5 cells.


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## zehnmm (May 18, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> zehnmm,
> 
> The 64633 is an amazing bulb. On paper (ignoring sag/resistance) it looks like a 4 cell bulb, but you've got it on 5. Is the runtime any better with 4 or is it a natural fit despite the short time on 5?
> 
> ...


 
Hello ElectronGuru.

Yes, the 15V 64633 is amazing. I originally tried it in my Mag3d with 12aa's, which in reality underdrove it. Hotwire blasphemy! But it was a very bright light, albeit a bit too yellow for my tastes. While I did not do measurements with that setup, the voltage to the bulb for the bulk of the run was probably in the 12.6 to 13.0 area. Incidentally, I got 8 minutes of runtime with 12x CBP1650's. I did relatively short runs of one minute each, with one minute rest between. It got pretty hot and 2 min. runs are not advisable, imho.

Since I got my 26500's I have not tried the bulb on 4 of these cells. Only the 5 cell version. On 5 cells, it, if my estimates are correct, is getting 16.0 to 17.0 volts to the bulb. When I first turn it on, it sure is one bright beast! 

Even though I have not tried to compare the bulb with 4 versus 5 batteries, there is a theoretical difference in runtime attributable to different amps, as per LuxLuthor's charts. As to just what the difference it, I suppose it would be a relatively small amount, such as one minute longer with 4 batteries. Example: Assume that our 26500's, rated at 2300 mah, put out 2100. At 17.0V, the measured amps from the chart is 11.9. At 15.0V, it is 11.1. Continuing our example, in the 15.0V case, which is somewhat close to a 4 battery solution, the runtime estimate = (2.1/11.1) * 60 = 11.4 min. If we then assume that 17.0V is the 5 battery solution, then the runtime estimate = (2.1/11.9) * 60 = 10.6 min. --- a difference of 0.8 minutes.

Perhaps some of our other hotwire mavens can chime in here and share their observations, since I have not done actual runtimes with the 64633 bulb on either 4 or 5 26500 batteries. 

I am reminded of a joke about the definition of an economist, who states something like "Well, it may work fine in practice, but does it work in theory?!" LOL. Pondering this flashlight question is in a great sense the converse of the quote, he, he. (All apologies to the economics profession.)

Regards.


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## ElectronGuru (Jun 15, 2009)

Okay Gentlefolk, I gotta crazy(er) idea:

Ideal bulb for 6x IMR26500?


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## KiwiMark (Jun 15, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> Okay Gentlefolk, I gotta crazy(er) idea:
> 
> Ideal bulb for 6x IMR26500?



5 x IMR 26500 is good on my 64458 I think 6 cells = .

With a regulated driver you could run the 64458 or any other 12V bulb from 6 cells. Unregulated then I am not too sure - are there any 18V bulbs available that would be good overclocked?


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## ElectronGuru (Jun 15, 2009)

I've found a few 24v bulbs, but overdriving would be minimal:

Osram 64638 - 100w
Osram 64640 - 150w
Osram 64642 - 150w
Osram 64655 - 250w
Osram 64656 - 250w
Osram 64657 - 250w​Sticking with Osram, if one of these won't work well with 6 cells (with a standard Mag C head), I'm better off going with 5 cells...


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## Chodes (Jun 18, 2009)

Very interesting thread for me. These IMRs have revived my interest in hotwires. AlanB's progrmmable starter has kinda done the trick too :twothumbs I'm about to order some IMRs so it's time to do my sums again to avoid blowing too many bulbs.

I have used Osram 62138 , 64432 , 6440 , 64458 , 64623 bulbs.
I have 64625 , 64633 and 64655 that I am yet to use. I have not been able to source 64447 65W IRC.

I have 20 Sony V 186750 cells. They perform under spec - discharge graph @5A looks like a 10A graph - ie range of about 3.5V-3.0V over a 5A run. I suspect I get about 3.3 - 2.9V at 10A discharge. 

vbulb readings I have taken last couple of days: 
(measured over 30 seconds , after 4 x 30 second runs to put pack at about 25% discharge)
62138 in short Elle, AW Softstarter 13.0-12.5v
62138 in 4D Mag, AW Softstarter 13.3-12.8V
64625 in short Elle, AW Softstarter 
64440 in 5D Mag, Home made Judco switch18.2-17.9V
64458 in 5D Mag, Home made Judco switch17.2v-16.4V

So it looks like I won't be able to get away without softstarter for the 64458 - no worries extra output will be worth it. 
I may get away with 62138 in the Elle. It has no tailspring resistance mod and combined with the battery holder loses an extra 0.3V with the Sonys compared to Mag body with tailspring mod. So I'd be looking around 13.8v- 13.4V vbulb with IMRs , startup spike might kill it though. 
I was planning a 3D Mag with 4 IMR26500s but looks like that will be definite instaflash. Could be a candidate for NTC for a simple cheap blaster.(basically a 3D USL I suppose) 
64440 I'll try with no sofstart on 5 cells.
64623 - I've got a 15.6V NiMh pack , it was very dissapointing for a brief try in the Elle and 4 Sonys. Keen to try this with the IMRs - good thing about the 623 - it's cheap!
I might even try a 64432 - 6 Sonys was not very impressive.
64625 - waiting for AlanB.

I was thinking an 8 cell Elle - 2 banks of 4 cells would have about a 0.8V vbulb advantage at 10A draw over 4 cell pack , but the extra resistance of a battery holder would seem to negate a lot of that gain. 

I really like the 26500 size - I'm using 18650s ened to end in long Mags , so I'll just be using shorter bodies and getting about 50% more capacity.

So I had exhausted all (well lots anyway) the possibilities with my Sony cells , time to start again with IMRs. I'll post results (beamshots) once I get some cells , but I've been happy with my pathetic "KiwiMark in the dark" 17V 64458  so I think I'll be real happy with 18v or so. 

Here's some of my home made switches:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/210009

Some beamshots with my lights: (Sony Cells)
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/208688


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 19, 2009)

The new regulators have thrown the deck of cards up in the air. Almost all options are back on the table.


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## Chodes (Jun 20, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> The new regulators have thrown the deck of cards up in the air. Almost all options are back on the table.



Yep. I was just thinking of possible setups without regulator , or for use of my 2 AW Sofstarters. But I'm wondering if it's even worth building a hotwire without a regulator anymore.

Since the thread is about IMR26500s , combined with JimmyM regulator I'm planning on some D Mags with 1185/5761 bulbs with rough estimated run times

2xIMR 1.25D 5761 20mins
3xIMR 2D 5761 30mins
3xIMR 2D 1185 35mins
4xIMR 3D 5761 40mins
4xIMR 3D 1185 45mins

The thread is concentrating on the diameter of the cells. As I'm planning Mag D use I'm interested in length. 

3 x C NiMh will fit in a 2D (just , with small spring or pad in tailcap) so I'm hoping the IMR26500s will be the same. A download Mag D Ring should provide enough extra length if not.

I have a 4x14670 M*g 1D by Fivemega - 1.25D.
2 x AW C Cells just fit with about 1/3rd of a C Spring in the tailcap.
2 x IMRs should fit with most or the whole C spring in the tailcap which will be neater.

4 x IMR26500 should be an easy fit in a 3D, again with a Mag C spring in the tailcap. (I got lots of c springs )

3D length with 4 cells and regulation really opens up the choices.


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## ElectronGuru (Jun 22, 2009)

Chodes said:


> 3 x C NiMh will fit in a 2D (just , with small spring or pad in tailcap) so I'm hoping the IMR26500s will be the same. A download Mag D Ring should provide enough extra length if not.



Here are other common C's next to the IMR C:


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## flashfiend (Mar 12, 2010)

*Re: Bulb Options for IMR26650*

I hope it's not improper to resurrect this thread for a different battery but I'm wondering if you all have any suggestions for a 2x26650 setup?

This thread says the Osram 64275 and the Phillips 5761 are a no-no but LuxLuthor's tests seem to indicate otherwise.

Btw, I'll be using AW's Soft Start switch if that makes a difference.

Also, of the two bulbs mentioned which one would be brighter?


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## ^^Nova^^ (Mar 12, 2010)

The 26650 options are essentially the same as 26500 cells, they will give slightly more voltage under load than the 26500's do.

Having said that, I don't think either the 5761 or 64275 will survive 2 large IMR cells. I have tried the 64275 on 2 26500's with a FM bi-pin socket in a 2c mag. It survived but I had no resistance fixes and the batteries were only charged to 4.1v and not 4.2v like usual.

Looking at Lux's test data, the 5761 is brighter and draws less current than the 64275, although there is probably not much in it to the eye (not that I have had both going side by side to compare).

Cheers,
Nova


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## flashfiend (Mar 12, 2010)

Do you know if any bulb will work with these batteries using an AW Soft Start Switch?


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## Linger (Mar 12, 2010)

real advantage of the soft-start is that you can use a bulb to run a set of batteries down until you're ready to open it up to full and give the bulb %100.
For example, I put 3xIMR26500's (charged 4.17v) in a 2D [email protected] with a Hikari 5607 (destructive test reports 4.11v /cell is max). Using the soft-start I clicked to level 1 (%30) and bulb was pretty bright, very white. After a bit I upped it to level 2 (%60) and ran the combination no trouble. Level three (%100) came after.

So if you have a set-up that crosses the edge of the bulb's range, it *is* possible to load the configuration and 'condition' the cells by running the bulb with them. Just be sure not to cycle the light and only move up to levels two, and then three (full) when when the vbatt has dropped into desired voltage.


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## flashfiend (Mar 13, 2010)

OK, I guess I will be the guinea pig and try these combinations out.


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## maxspeeds (May 22, 2010)

I really love the Osram 64458 bulb on 5 IMR cells. I don't have any IMR 26500 or 26650 cells, but on 18650 cells, it is great! It drains at almost 10A with 5 IMR cells (I only run the bulb for 2-3 minutes then recharge) at around 7000 lumens. It definitely isn't a practical setup, but that's what I have LED lights for :twothumbs. This bulb is insanely bright! It is easily the brightest torch I own. When I first powered it up, I had a smile from ear to ear. My 6C mag's head gets too hot in just seconds.

I highly recommend getting a 2.5" throwmaster or 3" head from fivemega once you start playing with these super bulbs. It makes all the difference in the world in regards to throw.


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## flashfiend (May 22, 2010)

Also if Fivemega ever makes them again his 16mm Deep Reflector actually does work with large bulbs (not just LED's). At least it did with the Osram 64275.


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## mrartillery (May 22, 2010)

maxspeeds said:


> I highly recommend getting a 2.5" throwmaster or 3" head from fivemega once you start playing with these super bulbs. It makes all the difference in the world in regards to throw.



+1, I own both, they are in a league all their own! With my 64458 the hot spot is easily visible at 200 yards with either one, well worth the money!


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## KiwiMark (May 23, 2010)

maxspeeds said:


> I really love the Osram 64458 bulb on 5 IMR cells.



Yeah, that is a great combo! I have a 4D that looks standard at first glance, but inside there are 5 x IMR 26500 cells and if you look into the head the bulb is obviously not a standard Maglite one. It can't throw worth a damn, but it can sure flood an area with a LOT of light! It is the 2nd brightest light I own. I really want to have that light with me when I come across someone with a Maglite 4D that they have put in a high performance emitter that they think is the bees knees - then I can say "Oh yeah, I have a Mag 4D too, is yours as bright as mine". After that Hilarity ensues!

My brightest is also using a 64458 bulb - I love that bulb! It has a 3" throwmaster head, so it can throw pretty well. But it runs from 8 x 18650 IMR cells and is regulated to 20.2V and pulls about 10.5A at the bulb - 212W of regulated incan goodness! That light doesn't look so standard, with the 3" head and Elephant II body kinda giving away the fact that it isn't a Maglite.

The axial filament in the 64458 helps the beam shape & throw and the ability of that bulb to handle over 20V really makes it a great bulb to use.


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## maxspeeds (May 23, 2010)

I'm loving the 64458 and 64440 IRC a lot!  Maybe too much  Anyhow, the next upgrade for me will be to increase runtime by adding more or larger batteries. 



Mark, regarding your 8x18650 IMR cell setup on your 64458, how long is your runtime? 
I currently have 5x18650 IMR cells. However, I was thinking of running 10x18650 IMRs in a 5s2p setup. Or, maybe 15x18650 in a 5s3p setup. Or, maybe I'll go with 5x26500 or 5x26650 IMR cells. I just can't decide


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## KiwiMark (May 24, 2010)

maxspeeds said:


> Mark, regarding your 8x18650 IMR cell setup on your 64458, how long is your runtime?



Still not very long, probably not a lot more than 10 minutes. I just use the light in short bursts (it does get quite warm if you use it for a couple of minutes non-stop) and recharge once I get the low battery warning. It is one hell of a light for the 10+ minutes that it runs for though! Being fully regulated means that it is just as bright at the end of the battery run as when they came fresh off the charger, it is definitely a great light.


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## maxspeeds (May 26, 2010)

KiwiMark said:


> Still not very long, probably not a lot more than 10 minutes.



Darn. I was hoping for a bit longer runtime. I look for atleast 30 min to be considered practical. I guess these super bulbs are still toys in our portable flashlight forms. For now, I'll stick with the 64440 IRC and 3-speed AW switch. That should give me atleast 1000 lumens on low (albeit yellow in CCT). More than enough when longer runtimes are needed


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## maxspeeds (May 26, 2010)

Anyone running 6 IMR cells in series? What super bulbs are you using in this setup?


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## flashfiend (May 26, 2010)

maxspeeds said:


> Darn. I was hoping for a bit longer runtime. I look for atleast 30 min to be considered practical. I guess these super bulbs are still toys in our portable flashlight forms. For now, I'll stick with the 64440 IRC and 3-speed AW switch. That should give me atleast 1000 lumens on low (albeit yellow in CCT). More than enough when longer runtimes are needed



How many cells are you going to use with the 64440?


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## KiwiMark (May 26, 2010)

maxspeeds said:


> Darn. I was hoping for a bit longer runtime. I look for atleast 30 min to be considered practical.



Hmmm - 30 minutes? 

10.5A x 20.2V = 212W so 30Min would require 106+ Watt hours of power.
3.7V x 8 = 29.6V
106Wh / 29.6V = 3.58Ah required
That would be a lot of battery power.

The 64440 in the same setup would be pulling about half the amperage, but that would barely push it up to 30 minutes at best (at 20.2V). Running a 64440 at 15V regulated from 8 x 18650 cells would theoretically give a run time of:
29.6 x .18Ah = 53Wh of battery power
15V x 4.55A = 68.25W 
53Wh / 68.25W = 0.776H
Theoretically as much as 45Min, in real life use maybe 35-40 minutes.

For a long run time how about a 64440 bulb in a Maglite 5D with 5 x KD 32600 unprotected Li-ion cells? They would last close to 1 hour max so you would probably want to stop at 40 - 50 minutes to avoid risking taking the voltage too low on any 1 cell.

Or just do what I do and use a 2D Maglite with 2 x 32600 cells and a ROP Low bulb - pretty decent output for about 2 hours (how much light do you need from a 'practical' use light?).


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