# Highest capacity AAA NiMH batteries currently available?



## StorminMatt (Nov 25, 2012)

I have a Coast PX25 that I use for a 6 mile night walk that I take with a walking group. The light is GREAT for this in terms of brightness (not too much, not too little) and size. However, it uses AAA batteries, and it sucks them down like a vacuum cleaner. Somewhat more than half way through the walk (maybe 2/3), my Duraloops are pretty much DONE. And changing batteries on the move (ESPECIALLY in a light with a battery holder) is not the easiest thing to do (it's a pain to have to stop, and then catch up again). So what I would REALLY like is the AAA NiMH battery with the highest capacity possible. It doesn't have to be LSD, as the batteries will be charged immediately before the walk and used pretty much ASAP. But I'm looking for something that can REALLY put out in terms of mAH. Any suggestions?


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## Yamabushi (Nov 25, 2012)

If your Eneloops (800mAH) only last 2/3 of the required time, you need about 1200mAh to last the whole walk. I've seen Chinese-made no name brand NiMH AAA claim as high as 1250mAH but AFAIK the highest rating from a credible brand is about 1000mAh.

I think what you need is a regulated flashlight. A regulated 2AA flashlight could easily give you 100+ lumens for over 2 hours. Average walking speed is 3 mph so I'm guessing your walk takes about 2 hours.


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## mccririck (Nov 25, 2012)

I think 1000mAh is about the highest. These have been tested by many people to hold 950mAh:


See Rule #3 Do not Hot Link images. Please host on an image site, Imageshack or similar and repost – Thanks Norm

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/..._900mah_Low_Self_Discharge_ready_to_use_.html


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## brted (Nov 25, 2012)

I tested a few of the 900 mAh Turnigy cells and got an average of 986 mAh, which is more than the 800 mAh of Eneloops, but still probably won't get you all the way through your walk. You could bring a second flashlight (always need a backup anyway). There are multi-mode lights that will let you have the light on in Medium for better runtime and still get pretty good output, and then when you need full brightness you can bump up to High.


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## apagogeas (Nov 25, 2012)

The specs of this light say 6 hour 15 min runtime. I suppose this is with a lower output? Anyway, looking into the highest mAh AAA batteries, you'll possibly find yourself in the position to change them quite often, every few months. They just don't last and the capacity diminish and within one year they'll be like a normal AAA eneloop if not worse in terms of capacity and probably will perform even worse, so you'll be at the same case again (not sure about higher capacity LSD however, I'm certain for the non-LSD they'll suffer). The maximum real is close to 1000mAh, anything above that is almost certainly exaggeration. If your light does have a lower setting, why not use it assuming the lowest can deliver those [SIZE=-1]6 hour 15 min runtime[/SIZE]? The other option is to carry another light or get one that delivers more runtime if swapping batteries is really that bad.


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## ChrisGarrett (Nov 25, 2012)

I've got some AccuPower 1200 AAAs that get pretty close to that 1200mAh mark--mid 1100s. They're HSD cells, but they do offer some more capacity than some of the others out there.

Chris


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## Yamabushi (Nov 25, 2012)

apagogeas said:


> The specs of this light say 6 hour 15 min runtime. I suppose this is with a lower output? ... If your light does have a lower setting, why not use it assuming the lowest can deliver those [SIZE=-1]6 hour 15 min runtime[/SIZE]?



The Coast PX25 is single output 208 lumens for 6 hours 15 minutes. It can claim that ANSI FL1 runtime by starting at 208 lumens and running down to 21 lumens (10%). This is typical of the unregulated Coast / LED Lenser lights.


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## StorminMatt (Nov 25, 2012)

Yamabushi said:


> The Coast PX25 is single output 208 lumens for 6 hours 15 minutes. It can claim that ANSI FL1 runtime by starting at 208 lumens and running down to 21 lumens (10%). This is typical of the unregulated Coast / LED Lenser lights.



This is true. There ISN'T a lower output, and this is an unregulated light. Furthermore, I'm sure they're also using alkaline batteries to get this runtime. Unlike NiMH, alkaline batteries really don't run long at full brightness. But they will go forever in a light like this in a very dim state. So I'm sure you COULD get six hours from the thing with alkalines, at least if you are willing to put up with very little light output. But at that point, there are other lights with lower output that would run longer with NiMH.

Anyone know anything about Ansmann batteries. They make an 1100mAH AAA, and I've heard that it's pretty much for real as far as capacity. Not sure whether it would be enough. But it might be worth looking into.


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## Shadowww (Nov 25, 2012)

Sanyo 1000mAh made in Japan cells are highest capacity AAA's available, IIRC. They test out at real 1000-1100mAh.


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## Dubois (Nov 25, 2012)

Seems to me you simply need to get a different flashlight - an AA one that *will *easily manage the two hour walk.


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## StorminMatt (Nov 25, 2012)

Dubois said:


> Seems to me you simply need to get a different flashlight - an AA one that *will *easily manage the two hour walk.



I actually DO have other flashlights that can manage a two hour walk (which use AA, C, and D batteries). But I just like the PX25 for this walk. And if I can possibly find a way to make it run longer, that would certainly be nice.


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## Wrend (Nov 25, 2012)

I think you might be out of luck. Actual capacity of 1200mAh+ seems like a stretch for AAA NiMH cells.


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## lensman (Nov 25, 2012)

Is the Coast PX25 able to take a rechargeable Lithium-ion cell in place of the battery holder? Since there's no low voltage protection you'd have to watch out for overdischarge...


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## Thr3Evo (Nov 26, 2012)

If I'm off the mark please ignore my suggestion. But I gather that this light runs on 3xaaa cells. Which I'm assuming are in a standard series tubular holder that many lights utilize. 

My two suggestions:
1. Carry one extra holder pre filled with fresh cells for a quick change. 
2. Rigg a holder to accept 3x10440's in parallel rather than series (at a minimum of 500mA each you get 4.2V @ a minimum of 1500mA). Get higher capacity cells and you have some left over for that "rainy day".

Edit: see if you can get either an 18350 or an 18500 in there with highest capacity available.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Nov 26, 2012)

Sounds like your best bet, if you don't want to change batteries during the hike would be to use alkaline or lithium batteries instead of rechargeable batteries. By the way, since we're almost into winter, it's worth noting that Eneloops are about the only rechargeable option that works well in the cold. Higher capacity NiMH batteries start losing capacity in the 50's F.


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## Wrend (Nov 26, 2012)

At these discharge rates the Eneloops likely have higher usable capacity than alkalies.


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## StorminMatt (Nov 26, 2012)

Wrend said:


> At these discharge rates the Eneloops likely have higher usable capacity than alkalies.



Very true. I actually measured the tailcap current on this light, and it was *.6A!* That's pushing an alkaline AAA WELL beyond what it is capable of doing. As for low temperatures, this really isn't too much of a concern. This light actually gets quite warm during operation. And, of course, it will be clenched in my hand. I don't think it will get cold.


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## shadowjk (Nov 26, 2012)

The flashaholic solution: Get a second light. When the first one dies, you take the other one out of your pocket.


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## InHisName (Nov 26, 2012)

I vote similar to shadowjk. with these modifcations and reasons.
Use two flashlights. 
At a convient spot after the half way point, change flashlights.
So both will be approximately 75% discharged. 
Recharge both to 95% full, not 100%
With this mild charging / discharging you should have MANY MORE cycles in the life of the eneloops / duraloops.
If these flashlights are not single cell lights but triple cell then this is especially useful advice to avoid reverse chanrging one of the cells.
By stoping with 25% left, reverse charging while using the light will rarely have the oppertunity to occur.


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## UnknownVT (Nov 26, 2012)

shadowjk said:


> The flashaholic solution: Get a second light. When the first one dies, you take the other one out of your pocket.


That's a reasonable idea -
but how about a slight compromise - 
get another/spare battery holder - 
that way the battery change can be pretty quick.

As for the original query - 
Imedion AAA (LSD) rated 950mAh
Sanyo XX (eneloop) (LSD) rated 950mAh
Turnigy AAA (LSD) 900mAh (seems to consistently measure higher - 
but beware there is an 800mAh version)


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## mummel (Dec 17, 2014)

Reviving this old thread! Its now Dec 2014. What do most people here recommend for a high capacity AAA rechargeable? Thanks.


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## chillinn (Jan 1, 2015)

mummel said:


> Reviving this old thread! Its now Dec 2014. What do most people here recommend for a high capacity AAA rechargeable? Thanks.



Bumped. Feel free to ignore my post... just skip to the last line... (have battery fever).

I understand the advantages of LSD, in theory at the cost of absolute "max capacity" for the chem. After obsessive dredging for what is there and consuming the very generous Amazo-nLee (tE) reviews and others, I understand why the reviewers, in their infinite wisdom, direct everyone to "whatever teh cheapes eneloop-copy-best-deals are now." Can't go wrong recommending the best deal on the best battery for pretty much anything. These cells are, regardless of advertising if they are copies, 800 mah batteries (if AAA variety), that keep a decent bettery than 80%-charge over a long time and are good for 1500-3000 charges. There are 950mah pro varities good for 500 charges, old Sanyo XX, and newerish Panasonic Eneloop Pro. The Imedion (Powerex brand), afaict, currently holds the best LSD capacity rating, and its expensive, but (sometimes less than) half as expensive than actual Eneloop Pros, which it bests by at least 100mah in capacity, and likely total life charges (just a guess). EBL High Capacity batteries claim to be LSD, come precharged, but have been ferreted out as inferior LSD, though they do apparently have actually the highest capacity (no long term tests I can find, too new)... and relatively cheap. Tenergy Platinum are also decent LSD, higher capacity than Eneloop Pro, much less expensive, probably last longer. Duracell has (4thgen?) 800mah japanese duraloops available almost everywhere I go, and that's great, but they're 800mah and at the store more expensive than Imedions online, and by the looks of most of them, they've been there a while. SunLabz and FlePow are also, apparently, well-regarded lower cost LSD NiMH, with pretty and colorful labels.

LSD. Got it. Check.

But what else is there? I can't find these higher-capacity current generation non-LSD batteries, just the older lower capacity ones that the new LSDs beat handily.

The OP's example is a good test case, but for 2015 we should extend the hike just a bit beyond the distance the best quasi-LSD (EBL) out of a pack could get you, which is over the advertised 1100mah. Please don't recommend another light, shorter hike, longer legs, nor carrying the overly burdensome extra AAA cell. 

So (by inductive reasoning, earlier... nm) I arrive at the possible existence of actual non-LSD NiMH AAA cells that push to the limits of the chemistry, accepting up to or beyond 1000 recharges but no promise nor expectation of any charge to speak of beyond a week or a few days, that blows past that 1100-1150mah by the difference between the non-negligible capacity limits of the freshly charged LSD and non-LSD cell varieties.

Please direct me to the non-LSD NiMH AAA 1200++ mAh (current generation) rechargeable cells. You have my gratitude.


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## ChibiM (Jan 1, 2015)

yeah.... we want more, we want more 

seriously.. it would be nice to have those AA and AAA cells finally really bump in mAh. 
they have slowly and slowly increased in capacity, but nothing extraordinary. 

Currently in Japan there are some Toshiba Impulse TNH-4AH that have 900mAh min. and Panasonic Evolta BK 4HLC(made in Japan) that have a min. 930mAh. (and is a semi LSD cell)
note that the ratings in Japan are Minimal ratings.. so overseas they might show something around the 1000mAh.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 1, 2015)

ChibiM said:


> seriously.. it would be nice to have those AA and AAA cells finally really bump in mAh.
> they have slowly and slowly increased in capacity, but nothing extraordinary.



Given that capacity really hasn't increased much in 10 years, I think that's an indication that NiMH technology has just about reached its potential. Same as NiCad technology did 10 or 20 years ago, and alkalines, and carbon-zinc, etc.


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## 5S8Zh5 (Jan 1, 2015)

The answer is a New York reload. Carry a second AAA light to light the way home.


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## ChrisGarrett (Jan 1, 2015)

5S8Zh5 said:


> The answer is a New York reload. Carry a second AAA light to light the way home.



How 'bout a plastic snap case with four extra AAAs inside it? They take up very little space.

No reason to complicate an uncomplicated situation.

Chris


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## chillinn (Jan 1, 2015)

5S8Zh5 said:


> The answer is a New York reload. Carry a second AAA light to light the way home.



That would mean carrying an extra battery also. Craziness. Even after I asked nicely to stop with the out of the box solutions. Forget the test case. I want these because I just do, there is no substitute. I need a higher cap battery. AAA Imedions and EBLs and some others will perform over 1100mah, so it is sort of pointless to recommend any cell with less capacity. I don't want just any non-LSD, but the non-LSD that is the generational equivalent of these higher-capacity LSD Imedions and EBLs. There ought to be, there should be somewhere, batteries with even higher capacity but poorer LSD performance. The answer is only and only is any high self-discharge AAA rechargeable battery with more than 1200 mah capacity. (I don't know if its real, but it should be).



**FYI, joking about the trouble carrying extra little tiny things... still looking for a battery not anything else.

edit: EBLs get close to 1050mah, not over 1100mah, but Imedions are quite obviously more cap (over time), its a bigger battery, LSD, better battery, close to 1000mah. I think the quality non-LSD batteries don't exist in higher capacities any more (or right now), because the highest tested capacities of any AAA batteries happen to be LSD. Since only a few manufacturers don't lie on the label about capacity, one can safely assume that manufacturers aren't giving us the choice between hi-cap and lo-cap, they're only giving you a choice between cheap and expensive. The cheap batteries are cheap, poorly made, low capacity, non-LSD, and the expensive batteries are expensive, well-made, higher capacity and LSD. Eneloops are loved because its a very happy medium, 800+mah, take obscene abuse and recover, and are as cheap as you can find copies of them.


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## StorminMatt (Jan 2, 2015)

Wow, how things have changed since I made this post! That stupid Coast PX25 is long kaput, thanks to the miserable battery carriers that Coast uses in these lights. I had one go bad, ordered a second from Coast, and had that one go bad as well. So I gave up on the light. When it comes to a small light for walking, I now use an SC52w L2 with a 14500. I hardly even think about that Coast, or trying to find the highest capacity AAA batteries. And if I need to change the battery, it's ALOT easier to change a single 14500 than it is to change three AAAs in some dorky battery carrier.


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## chillinn (Jan 2, 2015)

StorminMatt said:


> it's ALOT easier to change a single 14500 than it is to change three AAAs in some dorky battery carrier.



I like AA. The lights are often negligibly larger than their AAA brothers. The battery and its size, however, is not why I like a light, only that I prefer single cell lights, and I think I like all single cell lights. Cells, otoh, I like for their own sake. My duraloops are growing on me fierce, but since purchasing my first set of cells and a charger for ~$5 walmart stock clearance sale, 6AAA+2AA+slowcharger, those 600mah rayovacs are my favorite, because duraloops are great but not cheap. I use/abuse the bargain rayovacs first, daily. I think maybe I merely want to try to replace them and how I use them with something with more capacity than eneloop pro copies somehow... but can't find these non-LSD higher capacity batteries, in AAA or AA, either size, that have tested better than the premium LSD cells. There should be non-pre-charged, non-LSD, "High Capacity" NiMH with a bit more capacity than the LSD batteries from the same manufacturer, but I've sort of given up hope of finding them. What I may do is just mark 6 duraloops for the daily abuse to distinguish them from subsequent batches of purchases.


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## JerryM (Jan 2, 2015)

I also prefer single cell lights, and carry either a Tank 007 e09 or a Fenix LD01. However, I doubt that any AAA cell has the capacity needed by the OP. Accordingly, it is my opinion he will have to go to AA. I do not have a large number of lights as many do here. However, I have a Terralux 100, single AA that would do the job easily. It has 2 modes; 100 lm and 50 lm. I test my own lights to see how long they will burn at a usable light for my purposes. That is sometimes as low as 5 lum. My test of the Terralux 100 on the low, 50lm mode had the following results.
Terralux 100 AA	Lo 50
Eneloop 9hr 25min
Tenergy Prem 12hrs 9min

I am sure that the 6 hour hike would pose no problem for having enough light for your purpose. It is an inexpensive light which helps. It would seem easier to carry a single cell AA than to change batteries during the walk, but to each his own.

Jerry


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## MidnightDistortions (Jan 2, 2015)

I prefer AA over AAA's as they have higher capacity. AAA's are better in low drain devices imo.


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## chillinn (Jan 2, 2015)

I have an idea... what OP and I need is the Tesla Flashlight (wireless powa!) with the sphere accessory placed near the middle of the hike, or perhaps the four corners of the Earth, which ever is more convenient. ;-)







____
-edit:
scouring, I got lucky and found a few more batteries to try that have positive reviews, I believe all HSD, not precharged, by Ansmann, GP, and Vapex, all rated 1100mAh, and not cheap. EBL 1100mAh are getting cheaper, close to $1 each on eBay.


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## JerryM (Jan 3, 2015)

chillinn said:


> I have an idea... what OP and I need is the Tesla Flashlight (wireless powa!) with the sphere accessory placed near the middle of the hike, or perhaps the four corners of the Earth, which ever is more convenient. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jeffnc (Jan 3, 2015)

I know the OP really wanted batteries, but it seems things have changed and the post is updated. For this particular problem, I think a better solution might be to buy a headlamp such as the Coast HL7, and adjust the lamp output until it lasts the whole walk, rather than trying to adjust the batteries. I currently own the HL4, but have just ordered the HL7 as an upgrade. (Use mine for handyman services when working in crawlspaces, changing light fixtures, etc. I find I have no need for the red light on the HL4.)


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## A.marquardt (Jan 3, 2015)

Just go and buy a

H502w L2 AA Flood Headlamp Neutral White *$69.00*Buy
Run it at 100 lumens and it'll last you over 3 hours. More with a decent cell.


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## chillinn (Jan 3, 2015)

JerryM said:


> Have you used EBL very much?
> Jerry



Not yet, just read the reviews. At first, Amazo-NLee said they rated highest cap for LSD. Then, later, he dogs them because their LSD quality is poor, claiming ?85% after 3 years is bogus when 3 months leaves less than 75%, and NLee thus doesn't trust the claim of 1200 charges. But they're the cheapest, highest capacity I can find, and I don't need LSD (well... maybe a little).

I just blew my Christmas card stash... ordered D4 charger (wanted the opusC3400, but I can wait... too much!) and a small bunch of different batteries to try:

4x EBL NiMH AAA 1.2v 1100mAh, 
4x BPI NiZn AAA 1.6v 1000m*W*h (with BPI charger)
4x Soshine AW?? Li-ion 3.7v ICR10440 350mAh, 
4x Efest LiMn 3.7v IMR10440 350mAh,

And grabbed three more lights, E05ss (may keep, may beg for vn mod), that Thorfire clicky that looks like the DQG mini (intend to mod to a police blue LED), and idky, but the Maratac AAA Brass (they used the wrong kind of brass IMO... its not lead-free naval brass, its machining brass and has a lot more lead in it than California laws would like... so it will not go in the mouth like the Copper-- I have enough neuroses).

I feel like I am a good 4-5 years behind the satisfied flashlight owners that post here. I need to do some experiments of my own if I hope catch up


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## LetThereBeLight! (Jan 3, 2015)

chillinn said:


> I have an idea... what OP and I need is the Tesla Flashlight (wireless powa!) with the sphere accessory placed near the middle of the hike, or perhaps the four corners of the Earth, which ever is more convenient. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No doubt you are referring to my highly (excuse my self-pat on the back here!) original post "The Tesla Flashlight" from some time back, and I appreciate that you recognize that Tesla (or someone with an intimate knowledge of his phenomenal work) could indeed "invent" such a light through a simple application of his long-suppressed genius/technology (to flashlights!)

The result? 

The change (transformation) of entire industries and the ridding the world of all its 'darkness' to which I say let there be light!

LetThereBeLight!


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## chillinn (Jan 3, 2015)

LetThereBeLight! said:


> No doubt you are referring to my highly (excuse my self-pat on the back here!) original post "The Tesla Flashlight" from some time back


Well, sure. I did actually assume someone thought of this before. The only problems with Tesla's ideas, afaict, is that most of his patents are still ... top secret... and should Tesla's wireless power ideas get rolled out, replacing our crappy grid, the disgustingly rich energy magnets will have trouble figuring out how much power you used, and will be unable to charge you for usage, and they may die no richer. Wouldn't that just be tragic?


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## StorminMatt (Jan 3, 2015)

A.marquardt said:


> Just go and buy a
> 
> H502w L2 AA Flood Headlamp Neutral White *$69.00*Buy
> Run it at 100 lumens and it'll last you over 3 hours. More with a decent cell.



I don't have one of these. But I DO have an Armytek Tiara A1 and a Zebralight H600Fw. However, if hands-free use is not an absolute necessity, I actually prefer a handheld light to a headlamp. One thing I never liked about headlamps is having all that glare so close to my eyes.


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## JerryM (Jan 4, 2015)

I bought a package of AA and AAA EBL batteries. I found the AAA would not fit inside my Tank 007 e09. I did a runtime test with a Fenix LOD01. Here are the comparison results.
Fenix LD01 AAA	
Hi	Tenergy Prem 2hrs 20min	
Eneloop 1hr 35min	
EBL 1hr 57min	

FWIW

Added: When I checked my batteries I discovered that I do not have any AA EBL batteries. I ordered a 4 pack and will compare them with what I have on hand as to run times for my lights.

Jerry


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## SemiMan (Jan 6, 2015)

chillinn said:


> Well, sure. I did actually assume someone thought of this before. The only problems with Tesla's ideas, afaict, is that most of his patents are still ... top secret... and should Tesla's wireless power ideas get rolled out, replacing our crappy grid, the disgustingly rich energy magnets will have trouble figuring out how much power you used, and will be unable to charge you for usage, and they may die no richer. Wouldn't that just be tragic?




Can you please explain how a PATENT is "Top-Secret", when a patent, by definition is a publicly filed document viewable by all?

Wireless power is a great idea .... too bad Tesla never got it to work.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 6, 2015)

A lot of nutty ideas are attributed to Tesla, however, they are gross exaggerations (and sometimes just made-up stories) of what he was actually trying to build.


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## chillinn (Jan 6, 2015)

SemiMan said:


> Can you please explain how a PATENT is "Top-Secret", when a patent, by definition is a publicly filed document viewable by all?



Yeah, no problemo:
35 U.S. Code § 181 - Secrecy of certain inventions and withholding of patent
Some estimate (spuriously, I'm afraid) that there are over 700 of his patents that were never made public. Fun to think about anyway.



SemiMan said:


> Wireless power is a great idea .... too bad Tesla never got it to work.



Well, his funding was pulled before he could build all his transmission towers for world-wide wireless power, but he certainly proved the concept and got it to work, and there's plenty of proof of this on YouTube with others repeating his experiment. more details As I said, the problem with it is not that it doesn't work, the problem is there's no way to regulated it, no way to know how much to bill you for the electricity you used. Tesla intended this, was a decent person, unlike Edison, more like Salk and others who simply gave away their discoveries and inventions to humanity without any desire for Edison-like megalomania.


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## SemiMan (Jan 6, 2015)

I had forgot about that law on the U.S. books. Keep in mind it is only 1 year with a 1 year renewal period. The U.S. Gov would be hard pressed on any non-military device to withhold financial benefits to the patent owners. It is fun to think about, but we must also think about the limits to his knowledge and the likelihood that far less than 700 and perhaps 0 patents were never made public over time. 

Pretty much all his records on wireless power became public record. He never ever demonstrated transmission beyond a small distance. Therein lies the issue. Wireless power is a great concept, but no one has ever solved how to do it at a long range with any sort of efficiency. Tesla, like all his contemporaries, had to work with the knowledge base available to him and created theories that he believed would work, but in many cases did not. You will also note that from that article you referenced that Tesla often was unable to prove out his theories .... remember not everything Einstein theorized was perfect either. 

Different people are driven by different things .... for some the greater thing is simply to tinker, but you can bet that Tesla would have monetized his inventions as much as he could to fund his tinkering. That is just a different form of megalomania brought on by the ego of your own importance. Tesla had his distractors as well and was intolerant of people who doubted the validity of his ideas .... whether he was right or wrong. I am not a fan of Edison, but he was not stupid and had something to show at the end for his efforts as well. If he had taken up Tesla on 3 phase, we may not be having this conversation.


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## snakebite (Jan 6, 2015)

back to the o.p issue.
the aaa nimh top out at around 1100mah at best.TESTED.
i also hate the 3aaa carriers and found that an 18500 li-ion cell and spacer not only gives more capacity(1700mah) but eliminates 2 cells and 4 contacts.


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## chillinn (Jan 6, 2015)

SemiMan said:


> He never ever demonstrated transmission beyond a small distance. Therein lies the issue. Wireless power is a great concept, but no one has ever solved how to do it at a long range with any sort of efficiency.



"Olag Losev never ever demonstrated LED beyond a very dim light. Therein lies the issue. LED is a great concept, but no one has ever solved how to do make it bright with any sort of efficiency."
--Thomas Edison, 1931

edit:
this isn't a snark, but of course its bogus. Its to show that if you decide that all there is to know is already known, you're making an argument from omniscience. The reason Tesla's worldwide power didn't work out is that Tesla never told anyone how it worked (because of his experiences with Edison, Marconi, et. al, he became increasingly guarded with his inventions and how they worked). Even if no one EVER figures out wireless power to any efficiency does not mean in the least that Tesla did not KNOW that it would, does not mean that Tesla could not make it work, and its possible Tesla is the only person who could FIRST make it work. It is not surprising that he was shut down, because he was competing with Edison, and that man had incredible, near endless resources, played business really really dirty. Again, with no way to determine power usage, who would want to invest when Edison (along with Tesla's AC) could transmit wired power long distance and had metering to fleece the world for power that could be free as in beer?

Point being, Tesla proved the concept as well as Losev proved the concept of LED. I don't think you'd want an LED flashlight from 1927, though, unless you're one of those "sit in the trit-light" folks (they're ok, too!).


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## chillinn (Jan 6, 2015)

snakebite said:


> back to the o.p issue.
> the aaa nimh top out at around 1100mah at best.TESTED.



that is my finding as well, and that these 1100mah cells happen to be LSD. HSD, apparently and contrary to what I would expect, is only reserved for lower capacity cells (these days), as the best capacity of HSD I can find is only 1000mah. 




snakebite said:


> i also hate the 3aaa carriers and found that an 18500 li-ion cell and spacer not only gives more capacity(1700mah) but eliminates 2 cells and 4 contacts.



Officially, this is the first confirmation I have of this swap... but I had sort of picked up on that it was possible. Just for my edification, (anyone), if the 3 AAA battery was a single cell, what would it be called (what is the diameter and height of the carrier?)? And of this "spacer," for the 18500, can (anyone) please describe it? Thanks. Any other similar swaps for the 3AAA carrier?


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## chillinn (Jan 7, 2015)

The EBL 1100s came in today, topped them off on the charger and let sit an hour. Put one in the Maratac Rev.2, put on high, and with a stop watch timed 1:30 minutes until about half-light. Resting battery charge was then just below 1v, recovered to 1v quickly. This is about 10-15 minutes more than I get from my Panasonic Eneloop Pro 950mah to half-light. I'm going to try to be very kind to these, charge slowly and try not to overdischarge, and see if they hold capacity over many usages, but... heh... I didn't get the Opus, Ambient Weather, or any analyzer so I have nothing scientific or accurate to offer regarding specific capacity. :/


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## ChibiM (Jan 7, 2015)

chillinn said:


> The EBL 1100s came in today, topped them off on the charger and let sit an hour. Put one in the Maratac Rev.2, put on high, and with a stop watch timed 1:30 minutes until about half-light. Resting battery charge was then just below 1v, recovered to 1v quickly. This is about 10-15 minutes more than I get from my Panasonic Eneloop Pro 950mah to half-light. I'm going to try to be very kind to these, charge slowly and try not to overdischarge, and see if they hold capacity over many usages, but... heh... I didn't get the Opus, Ambient Weather, or any analyzer so I have nothing scientific or accurate to offer regarding specific capacity. :/



what is "half light"? how did you measure "half light"?


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## chillinn (Jan 7, 2015)

ChibiM said:


> what is "half light"? how did you measure "half light"?



Sorry that wasn't clear. Its the "moonlight mode" of the cell. As the voltage of the cell rides 1.2v for most of its capacity, the high mode stays as bright as it mostly is (just a tad brighter with the fresh cell until 1.4v drops to 1.2v). At the end of the NiMH battery's capacity, it will dip below 1.2v, and the light dims slowly. I was watching for it and comparing it extremely non-scientifically with another light intermittantly to check the brightness. When it seemed about 50% brightness from max, at 1h30m, I already knew the light could stay on another 45 mins or an hour, but with ever reducing brightness, because I happen to know this flashlight... can't put it down LOL. idk if my impressions are helpful or not, just thought I'd share what I could.


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## JerryM (Jan 7, 2015)

Sorry to be so ignorant, but where does one obtain a AA HSD battery?
Thanks,
Jerry


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## chillinn (Jan 7, 2015)

JerryM said:


> but where does one obtain a AA HSD battery?



HSD is probably anything that isn't LSD, so anything that's a 1.2v rechargeable but not precharged (ready to use) is probably HSD. But I can't find any HSD batteries with more capacity than the highest cap LSD cells, so I kind of gave up looking. I'm not sure what the advantage of HSD cells would be if they don't have more capacity than LSD... unless they're dirt cheap. Good luck!


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## JerryM (Jan 7, 2015)

Many thanks, I had never heard of that. 
Regards,
Jerry


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## ChrisGarrett (Jan 7, 2015)

chillinn said:


> HSD is probably anything that isn't LSD, so anything that's a 1.2v rechargeable but not precharged (ready to use) is probably HSD. But I can't find any HSD batteries with more capacity than the highest cap LSD cells, so I kind of gave up looking. I'm not sure what the advantage of HSD cells would be if they don't have more capacity than LSD... unless they're dirt cheap. Good luck!



AccuPower 2900s PowerEx 2700s and Sanyo 2700s are three common HSD AA batteries that all generally have more capacity than typical LSD batteries, including the true Eneloop XX/Pros and certainly more capacity than the Imedion 2400s, the GP ReCyKos 2050s and the standard Gen. 2, 3 and 4 HSD batteries.

Whether that added capacity is worth it over the XX/Pros and/or Duracell Ion Core AAs, is up to you and whether those other batteries last as long as common HSD offerings, I can't say for sure, but they're out there, if you know where to look.

Chris


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## thinkFlashlights01 (Jan 7, 2015)

Maybe Powerex aaa's?


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 7, 2015)

Just be aware that very high capacity NiMH cells won't last very long. If you use them, expect to buy new ones every year. They will lose significant capacity by that time, and will be ready for the garbage soon after.


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## chillinn (Jan 7, 2015)

I have come to appreciate the consistency and durability of the new ion core duraloops... but the (inferior, but higher capacity) EBL cells are really cheap compared to the other hi cap cells. So depending on how this 4 pack of EBL 1100 (~$6) works out, if there is any consistency in the capacity from battery to battery, I may just do as you suggest, and expect to buy new ones every year, for 250-300mah more capacity per AAA cell at half the cost... might make sense.


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## JerryM (Jan 7, 2015)

I won't argue that eneloops are high quality. However, I have been using Tenergy Premium and Centura batteries for about three months. 
While I do not know about how they will be a year from now, I do know that they last longer in my lights (run times) than eneloops or the new Duracell ion core batteries. The Tenergy's cost about $1.75 each compared to 3-4 bucks for eneloops.
So far I like the Tenergy's better than eneloops, especially considering the cost. To each his own.

Jerry


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## MidnightDistortions (Jan 7, 2015)

JerryM said:


> I won't argue that eneloops are high quality. However, I have been using Tenergy Premium and Centura batteries for about three months.
> While I do not know about how they will be a year from now, I do know that they last longer in my lights (run times) than eneloops or the new Duracell ion core batteries. The Tenergy's cost about $1.75 each compared to 3-4 bucks for eneloops.
> So far I like the Tenergy's better than eneloops, especially considering the cost. To each his own.
> 
> Jerry



Well some people prefer longer run times than longevity. For that, i find Eneloop Pros (or the Duracell equivalent) the best of both worlds. They might not last as long as regular Eneloops, but they give me enough power to be good emergency power when i need it. I use regular Eneloops for daily usage.


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## JerryM (Jan 7, 2015)

Please understand that this is not meant as an argument, we will each take his choice, but there is a lot of talk about emergencies, and the need for batteries. I have been thinking about when I had an emergency that I needed a flashlight. Really I do not remember when I had such an emergency that I needed a lot of batteries. When I have experienced power outages I do have some cheap 6-9 led lights, but if the weather is the problem I have a supply of bottled gas and lanterns from my camping days. But AA flashlights would not do all that much except for a short time, and maybe a number of times. 
A 2-3 cell Maglite has a long burn time and I have not had a situation when I depleted the batteries.

So my question, again not to argue, is what kind of emergencies do you or others experience where you need a supply of AA or AAA or other batteries and also need batteries that have been on the shelf several years?

EDIT To look at one issue-run times.

Maybe another post would be better, however, as I considered run times I thought I would make this observation in reply to a preference for longevity to run times.

As I looked at run times comparing batteries, I do not think that run times are so insignificant. Here are some results.
Fenix LD01 Mid level.
Tenergy Premium 3 hrs 51 min.
Eneloop 3 hrs 0 min

Hi mode
Tenergy Premium 2 hrs 20 min
Eneloop 1 hr 52 min

Terralux 100 Low mode 50 lum
Eneloop 9 hrs 25 min
Tenergy Prem 12 hrs 9 min

4 Sevens mini 1 AA med mode
Eneloop 6 hrs 26 min
Tenergy Prem 7 hrs 49 min

As I consider those run times and if in an emergency, the differences are significant. It would not be so important if the Eneloops would be usable for several years longer, but the need would be for max run times now.


Thanks, Jerry


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 7, 2015)

JerryM said:


> As I consider those run times and if in an emergency, the differences are significant. It would not be so important if the Eneloops would be usable for several years longer, but the need would be for max run times now.



The problem is that you only get that extra 20% run time if your "high capacity" cells are freshly charged. If they've been sitting unused for a few weeks, they'll certainly have less capacity than the Eneloops, and they may even be mostly empty.

So if you like charging your batteries every few days, and buying new ones every year, then go ahead and buy the highest capacity cells you can get. Otherwise, just buy a quality low-self-discharge cell like Eneloop and charge them up every 2 or 3 years.


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## JerryM (Jan 7, 2015)

I have not found that my eneloops hold up longer than Tenergy. For instance I took a couple of each fully charged. After one month I tried them again. Here are the results.
Sipik 68 clones. AA

After one week the times were.
Hi	Tenergy Prem	2hr 3min	
Eneloop 1hr 32min	

After one month
Hi	Tenergy Prem	2hr 5min	
Eneloop 1hr 58min	

The second Eneloop was better than the first, but as for the Tenergy self discharging I did not find it so. Obviously they had not. 

There seems to be a myth surrounding Eneloop batteries that all others are junk, but my own experience disputes that. I will not deny that Eneloops are a proven commodity. I don't know how long the other brands will last in terms of years of usefulness, and I have no dog in the fight. But when questions are posed regarding AAA and AA batteries the responses are normally don't bother with the junk, just get Eneloops. However, even if the Eneloops will outlast others by a goodly amount of time there is a legitimate question as to whether they perform so much better that they are worth the extra costs. 
When Tenergy batteries cost around $1.75 each and Eneloops from $3 - to as much as $5 each it makes sense to determine if you are getting your money's worth. So far in my view the Eneloops fall short when compared with Tenergy Premiums or Centuras. Time will tell whether I am mistaken or not for my use. I have not found the Tenergy Blue batteries as good as the other Tenergys.

So I would ask whether or not there have been tests that compare Eneloops with other brands in terms of run time and self discharge rates in actual lights over periods of time? After all isn't that the purpose of batteries?

As for comparing them after several months of not used at some point that is a non-issue as I would not think of going on a long hiking trip with months old batteries not charged. I suspect you would not either. As for emergencies I prefer C and D cells in the car or at home for long run times.

FWIW I have more Eneloops than I will need for a long time, but became interested in other batteries when those other brands were called junk.

Regards,
Jerry


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## Grijon (Jan 8, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The problem is that you only get that extra 20% run time if your "high capacity" cells are freshly charged. If they've been sitting unused for a few weeks, they'll certainly have less capacity than the Eneloops, and they may even be mostly empty.
> 
> So if you like charging your batteries every few days, and buying new ones every year, then go ahead and buy the highest capacity cells you can get. Otherwise, just buy a quality low-self-discharge cell like Eneloop and charge them up every 2 or 3 years.



+1


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## Grijon (Jan 8, 2015)

JerryM said:


> I have not found that my eneloops hold up longer than Tenergy. For instance I took a couple of each fully charged. After one month I tried them again. Here are the results.
> Sipik 68 clones. AA
> 
> After one week the times were.
> ...



I'm truly sorry for how harsh this sounds and I'm not trying to be a jerk, Jerry, but as you did not use the same batteries under the same conditions, I'm sorry to say that this 'test' is purely anecdotal - meaning that it happened. It does not show anything about the batteries themselves.

Nonetheless, it's always fun to see this sort of stuff and I thank you for sharing!


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## Grijon (Jan 8, 2015)

JerryM said:


> Please understand that this is not meant as an argument, we will each take his choice, but there is a lot of talk about emergencies, and the need for batteries. I have been thinking about when I had an emergency that I needed a flashlight. Really I do not remember when I had such an emergency that I needed a lot of batteries. When I have experienced power outages I do have some cheap 6-9 led lights, but if the weather is the problem I have a supply of bottled gas and lanterns from my camping days. But AA flashlights would not do all that much except for a short time, and maybe a number of times.
> A 2-3 cell Maglite has a long burn time and I have not had a situation when I depleted the batteries.
> 
> So my question, again not to argue, is what kind of emergencies do you or others experience where you need a supply of AA or AAA or other batteries and also need batteries that have been on the shelf several years?
> ...



I have 5 AA flashlights and the 2 single-AA's low runtimes are rated for 40 hours at 8 lumens. My 2xAA E25 is rated 72 hours at 8 lumens. My 4xAA LD41 is rated for 150 hours at 10 lumens. 8xAA TK41 rated for 240 at 15 lumens. Even if all of these runtime ratings are reduced by 50% due to lower-capacity batteries not having been charged in a long time, that's still a _lot_ of emergency lighting!


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## chillinn (Jan 8, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The problem is that you only get that extra 20% run time if your "high capacity" cells are freshly charged. If they've been sitting unused for a few weeks, they'll certainly have less capacity than the Eneloops, and they may even be mostly empty.




I can understand that someone puts a light away in a drawer and hopefully chooses eneloops if they want it to work in 6 months after forgetting about it. But I cannot understand, except for testers, anyone that charges batteries just to store them. That's ridiculous. I know, apparently, people do this... and I don't know why that is. Are they bomb shelter people? Apocalypse-impending-doom people? Do they only charge their batteries over one weekend every year? 


That being said, only the worst new batteries in the world will have no charge after "a few weeks." Its batteries that are old, have been abused, or sat too long, or Energizer rechargeables (little joke, heh) with no charge that would display that. 


High-self discharge (HSD) batteries, like my rayovac 600mah AAAs, still have a decent charge after 4 weeks (tested!). That's plenty for HSD. Eneloops are not the only decent batteries, and Sanyo is not the only company that knows how to make a good battery. If you don't use your batteries, then it is throwing money away. 


idk, I guess I have about 30 something... still collecting... but I'm getting close to the last battery I'll buy for a long long time. I use them all. I start at number 1, use that, move on to 2, 1 goes in the charger, use 2, move on to 3, etc. The chances that I won't use all the batteries by the end of a week are pretty slim unless I want to see what charge the cell has after a given time and save it... I don't have that many, and I can't think of any reason (other than curiosity) not to use them all in sequence, charge them all as they are used. I can imagine a pro photographer ends up with a pile of used batteries after a job, but I'm just ... playing with flashlights right now. 


If these EBLs don't work out... its $6 worth of 4 batteries. Tragic, no doubt, my folly for buying crap, but if they last half as long as a pack of Imedions or a fifth as far as a pack of the outrageously expensive Eneloops brand, then they are, in fact, a better deal, period. 


Granted, Eneloops have other advantages besides LSD, like resiliance, consistency. They better. They cost more, sometimes, than their weight in silver (it seems like)! My rayovac 600mah HSD batteries that I got 6AAA, 2AA AND the dumb charger for $5 are kicking their butt... I have a couple hinky duraloops... all my duraloops are less than 2 months old. I got those Rayovacs Spring 2014, and charge them every single day, and use them first. 2 are showing capacity degridation. My experience is anacdotal, but I think its time people let go of this Eneloop worship... you're driving up the prices of the batteries you love! What you need to do is start trashing Eneloops and stop buying them, so I can afford a few more packs when they go on clearance sale, geez! 

So if you don't mind paying too much, and never seeing the cost value of what you paid for, but are happy to know you have the very very very best, by all means, stock up on Eneloops, charge them up, put them in your storage bunker, and we know they'll still have charge in 8 months. But why even mess with that if you care about something working in 8 months... just get L91/L92... then you KNOW it will work in 5 years.

---
Edit: WalkIntoTheLight, as far as life in this United States goes, I realize batteries are a small thing for most... throwing down a 20 every so often, you can collect a lot of eneloops, and never worry much about the money over time. Wasn't always so, but my economy is pretty tight for the time being, ug, near college student level subsistence, so some weeks, a pack of eneloops can break me. But I can see my rant won't make much sense to anyone that has a stable personal economy... its a friggen pack of batteries, not a house. If only I had toilet trained my cats, I'd have more McGizmo's than anyone.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 8, 2015)

If you're comparing run-times of lights using different battery types, make sure the light is properly regulated to give you a flat discharge curve regardless of the battery voltage. Check selfbuilt's reviews to see his discharge curves.

Most quality lights will give you regulated flat discharge curve. Cheap lights might not be regulated at all, and a battery that puts out a lower voltage may run longer, even though it has less energy. And some manufacturers (Maglite is the worst offender) intentionally regulate their lights horribly, just to give impressive numbers on the FL1 specs.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 8, 2015)

chillinn said:


> I can understand that someone puts a light away in a drawer and hopefully chooses eneloops if they want it to work in 6 months after forgetting about it. But I cannot understand, except for testers, anyone that charges batteries just to store them. That's ridiculous. I know, apparently, people do this... and I don't know why that is. Are they bomb shelter people? Apocalypse-impending-doom people? Do they only charge their batteries over one weekend every year?



I'm a bit of an Eneloop collector (yes I admit it's a sickness), so I have far more Eneloops than I can use at one time. So, why not charge them up before I put them away for a few years? They retain 70% charge after 5 years, so I like the fact that I can take them out of storage and use them right away. I only charge the ones I've used; those that are still in their packaging I normally use right out of the box without charging.

Basically, they're a replacement for alkalines, so I want them charged and ready-to-use like alkalines.

As for my non-Eneloops (cells I bought before 2006), I do charge them up about once or twice a year, and it does take several days using all my chargers to do this. I should probably just throw them away, as I don't use many of them, but I hate to throw away batteries that are still able to hold a charge. From what I understand, you have to cycle non-LSD cells or they could become unrecoverable.



> That being said, only the worst new batteries in the world will have no charge after "a few weeks."



True, but I've owned "cutting edge" high-capacity cells that were like that. They were great when I bought them, but only lasted a year or two before they were crap.

Most non-LSD cells will hold a reasonable charge for about 6 months.



> The chances that I won't use all the batteries by the end of a week are pretty slim unless I want to see what charge the cell has after a given time and save it... I don't have that many, and I can't think of any reason (other than curiosity) not to use them all in sequence, charge them all as they are used. I can imagine a pro photographer ends up with a pile of used batteries after a job, but I'm just ... playing with flashlights right now.



I use Eneloops in everything that can take alkalines. In things like remote controls and clocks, this means charging them up maybe once every couple of years. I couldn't use non-LSD cells in that stuff.



> If these EBLs don't work out... its $6 worth of 4 batteries. Tragic, no doubt, my folly for buying crap, but if they last half as long as a pack of Imedions or a fifth as far as a pack of the outrageously expensive Eneloops brand, then they are, in fact, a better deal, period.



Nothing wrong with cheap cells, as long as you don't plan to keep them very long. My issue with cheap cells is you never know when they go bad, and suddenly you're stuck with a dead battery in your device because you didn't realize its capacity was getting bad.



> but I think its time people let go of this Eneloop worship... you're driving up the prices of the batteries you love! What you need to do is start trashing Eneloops and stop buying them, so I can afford a few more packs when they go on clearance sale, geez!



That's what the Chinese Eneloops are doing!


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## MidnightDistortions (Jan 8, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The problem is that you only get that extra 20% run time if your "high capacity" cells are freshly charged. If they've been sitting unused for a few weeks, they'll certainly have less capacity than the Eneloops, and they may even be mostly empty.
> 
> So if you like charging your batteries every few days, and buying new ones every year, then go ahead and buy the highest capacity cells you can get. Otherwise, just buy a quality low-self-discharge cell like Eneloop and charge them up every 2 or 3 years.



I enjoy the LSD technology and Eneloop Pros (or the Duraloops) are good enough for emergencies. You might have to recharge them a bit more often than regular Eneloops, but so far the Duraloops i have function like regular Eneloops, not like the Energizers which needed to be refreshed every year though they are not bad batteries either.




JerryM said:


> Please understand that this is not meant as an argument, we will each take his choice, but there is a lot of talk about emergencies, and the need for batteries. I have been thinking about when I had an emergency that I needed a flashlight. Really I do not remember when I had such an emergency that I needed a lot of batteries. When I have experienced power outages I do have some cheap 6-9 led lights, but if the weather is the problem I have a supply of bottled gas and lanterns from my camping days. But AA flashlights would not do all that much except for a short time, and maybe a number of times.
> A 2-3 cell Maglite has a long burn time and I have not had a situation when I depleted the batteries.
> 
> So my question, again not to argue, is what kind of emergencies do you or others experience where you need a supply of AA or AAA or other batteries and also need batteries that have been on the shelf several years?
> ...





JerryM said:


> I have not found that my eneloops hold up longer than Tenergy. For instance I took a couple of each fully charged. After one month I tried them again. Here are the results.
> Sipik 68 clones. AA
> 
> After one week the times were.
> ...



Tenergy is not a bad brand though i only have the 9volts which seem to be holding their charge over 3 months after refreshing them. I can't speak to whether all batteries are like this but Eneloops are pretty much the only ones i ran into that didn't require refreshing, at least within the first 3 years. They are like any other NiMH battery and can degrade as well, some Eneloop users have ran into 'crap' Eneloops but i suppose that is mainly due to charging/discharging habits.

As for the reason i prefer Eneloops/Eneloop Pros over any other NiMH battery is the idea they hold their charge longer than most others and is pretty much like expecting a flashlight to work over several months of just sitting there. I have noticed too, that Eneloops will still be charged several months of not being used. In fact the unused cells which were manufactured last May still work right out of the box, never been charged or used. That is among one of the main reason Eneloops gets so much high praise. Under testing they might not last as long as high capacity cells, but at least they will still carry a charge when you need them and they'll still function in 5 years, and possibly longer. If your high capacity cells last that long then that's a good thing. 500 cycles seem decent enough for me for emergency use and i use regular Eneloops as a basic workhorse. If i don't need to change the batteries out within one use then that's all i need. I don't really mind charging batteries at the end of the night or every other night but if i find myself having to replace batteries mid use all the time then i would need to use a higher capacity battery. Not arguing here, just having a nice discussion about battery usage  and i prefer to maximise the lifespan of my batteries so i can get 7+ years out of them before they need to go into recycling. Heck i use 10+ old rechargeables for low drain devices. 




chillinn said:


> I can understand that someone puts a light away in a drawer and hopefully chooses eneloops if they want it to work in 6 months after forgetting about it. But I cannot understand, except for testers, anyone that charges batteries just to store them. That's ridiculous. I know, apparently, people do this... and I don't know why that is. Are they bomb shelter people? Apocalypse-impending-doom people? Do they only charge their batteries over one weekend every year?



I generally only buy enough rechargeable NiMHs that will get me through 7+ years. Having a few extra cells for emergency usage isn't really a bad idea and i check them yearly, every 6 months when they get older and check them more frequent as they age.




> That being said, only the worst new batteries in the world will have no charge after "a few weeks." Its batteries that are old, have been abused, or sat too long, or Energizer rechargeables (little joke, heh) with no charge that would display that.



That was a definite case with the older Energizer cells, newer ones are good for a couple months at least, i haven't tested their charge retention yet mostly because they get used.




> High-self discharge (HSD) batteries, like my rayovac 600mah AAAs, still have a decent charge after 4 weeks (tested!). That's plenty for HSD. Eneloops are not the only decent batteries, and Sanyo is not the only company that knows how to make a good battery. If you don't use your batteries, then it is throwing money away.



This kinda ties into your first part of your post. Some people do need to leave a flashlight in their car or the garage or buy enough batteries to be used in any kind of situation. I make sure i have some charged batteries ready to go in an emergency and 'using' them could actually cause having dead batteries when you need them charged. I only got 1 charging unit plus i got an Eneloop charger. I need to get a few more or an 8 cell charger and some solar power going for my battery pack, plus another charger that will be my individual solar battery charger. You never know what might happen and when camping it would be much easier to carry a few extra batteries but a charger as well. Plus when batteries are crap the older ones get pushed into use and then it's buying an extra set for emergency use so you got fresh batteries for emergencies. Even though some HSD cells can last up to several months most of them tend to lose their maximum capacity over the years.




> idk, I guess I have about 30 something... still collecting... but I'm getting close to the last battery I'll buy for a long long time. I use them all. I start at number 1, use that, move on to 2, 1 goes in the charger, use 2, move on to 3, etc. The chances that I won't use all the batteries by the end of a week are pretty slim unless I want to see what charge the cell has after a given time and save it... I don't have that many, and I can't think of any reason (other than curiosity) not to use them all in sequence, charge them all as they are used. I can imagine a pro photographer ends up with a pile of used batteries after a job, but I'm just ... playing with flashlights right now.



That's not really a bad idea, except i use Eneloops in more than just flashlights, so i prefer keeping my battery analyzer as free as possible so usually when my main Eneloops go out i have a charged set of older, crap HSD batteries ready to go and generally i just swap them out when the batteries get low, usually though i'll charge the Eneloops before they are fully drained though. 1.18-1.24 volts is usually when i start recharging them.




> Granted, Eneloops have other advantages besides LSD, like resiliance, consistency. They better. They cost more, sometimes, than their weight in silver (it seems like)! My rayovac 600mah HSD batteries that I got 6AAA, 2AA AND the dumb charger for $5 are kicking their butt... I have a couple hinky duraloops... all my duraloops are less than 2 months old. I got those Rayovacs Spring 2014, and charge them every single day, and use them first. 2 are showing capacity degridation. My experience is anacdotal, but I think its time people let go of this Eneloop worship... you're driving up the prices of the batteries you love! What you need to do is start trashing Eneloops and stop buying them, so I can afford a few more packs when they go on clearance sale, geez!



Isn't that the whole point though, we want to support and keep interest in Eneloops so Panasonic will continue producing them, though that might be the reason we have Chinese Eneloops floating around. We love the quality of them and i'll buy other brands as well just to try them out but it's the fact that they work after 8 months or 2 years in storage! I don't think the prices are that bad, for Eneloops they're worth it and i don't think people buy 100s of them just to keep them in storage, i couldn't imagine people buying batteries just to keep them in storage either, but they are designed to work in storage so there's no reason to buy some for that reason. People stock up on alkalines and can food too for storage, why not Eneloops?


Anyway wow, lots of discussion about this but that's great. I don't have an overabundance of Eneloops or NiMHs laying around. I use around 80% of them, 40% of them are Eneloops, i know my crap cells are on their way out, in fact i have a set of Energizers that i used in a light where one of the batteries is under 30% so it's just dragging the rest of them down but the rest of them are no higher then 55% anyways so those will just get used in my PC mouse/remotes and then more of my Eneloops will be put into service so it's not like i bought them to never be used, i knew some of my older cells were on their way out so i got a 16 pack of Eneloops for that reason. I also got a pack of Duracells, got some Goal Zero batteries and a set of Energizers as well which is already being used. That's just for my AA stock, my AAA stock are all crap batteries but most of them are used in low drain devices and they average around 70% capacity so i don't have any AAA Eneloops, plus i'm getting the Pros for my AAA flashlights in the future. I didn't want to get new AAA cells right away though since i had to get new AA batteries since all my crap cells were only 50% capacity.


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## JerryM (Jan 8, 2015)

Grijon said:


> I'm truly sorry for how harsh this sounds and I'm not trying to be a jerk, Jerry, but as you did not use the same batteries under the same conditions, I'm sorry to say that this 'test' is purely anecdotal - meaning that it happened. It does not show anything about the batteries themselves.
> 
> Nonetheless, it's always fun to see this sort of stuff and I thank you for sharing!



Hi Grihhon,
I did not take it in a negative way. No problems, and we are just trying to learn explore and enjoy the hobby, which is useful, and fun at times,

I agree my test is not significant from the point of statistics. It was not intended to be. However, it does show that on that day with those lights and batteries the Tenergys outperformed the Eneloops. That cannot be reasonably disputed, and was in response to comments that the Tenergys might do well when freshly charged, but in a week or a month they would be discharged to a much larger extent than Eneloops. That has proven to be incorrect in my own trials of several lights, AA and AAA, and with different batteries. Such tests do in fact show something about the batteries. Not to a designer, but to a person wondering what to buy to get the best bang for the buck. To a newby who asks what to buy in batteries for his lights it is not so simple to say that everything except Eneloops are junk. I dispute that with some information from some tests that give info as to how long will a certain battery lasts in my flashlights. At the same price I would probably buy Eneloops, and have plenty, but they have priced themselves out of my market until I can determine that they are worth twice or more than Tenergys which have performed better for me. I have a couple more batteries that have not been charged for almost two months, and I will run my unscientific tests on them when they sit idle a bit longer.

I realize that one can do all sorts of experiments that are very useful. I very much appreciate those efforts and find the interesting. However, some of us, are not so interested in at what point a battery reaches 50% of capacity at 1 amp as we are in what they cost and how they perform in our lights. That is my own focus. I am not designing anything so although interesting at times such tests and information is of limited usefulness to me and the average user,not on these forums. I have used them when I wondered which lion batteries to buy, and once was surprised at how well some Trustfire 18650 had performed. 

I realize that many here have forgotten more about batteries and light than I will ever know. But I can determine how much something costs, how it performs, and if it will last long enough to be cost effective. I have not found such information here or on CPF. For that reason I think that some of the attitudes regarding batteries are not reasonable or helpful.

I very much hope 2015 will bring you and yours blessings and prosperity.
Regards,
Jerry


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## chillinn (Jan 8, 2015)

MidnightDistortions said:


> That was a definite case with the older Energizer cells, newer ones are good for a couple months at least, i haven't tested their charge retention yet mostly because they get used.



Unfair of me to joke about Energizers. Spending a lot of time in the garage where all my stuff is packed in boxes, and came across some batteries I knew I had but had not seen since ~2003/5 when I packed the boxes up... found 2 different (from different capacity 4 packs) of old Energizer AA NiMH. They were deader than dead. One charged up with zero problem and worked immediately, the other gave an error on my eneloop charger, would not take charge. But I just got a NiteCore D4, and last night I was reading stuff (to resurrect old depleted NiMH, use high current charge), wanted to try it... and the one that wasn't working charged up and works. These don't hold capacity sitting more than 36 hours, but they work fine in my red Gerber Ultra Tasklight... I think the charge slips away before the light can even use it all LOL. However, they were sitting in a box for 10 years, and I used the Hell out of them back then... for flash photography (until I found I prefer to take pictures in the dark without flash by pushing fast film and using long aperture times-- I cannot figure out how to take pictures in the dark with a digital camera). Anyway... just kidding, Energizer! (But we'd all really like a 3v Li primary AAA, please!)


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## MidnightDistortions (Jan 8, 2015)

chillinn said:


> Unfair of me to joke about Energizers. Spending a lot of time in the garage where all my stuff is packed in boxes, and came across some batteries I knew I had but had not seen since ~2003/5 when I packed the boxes up... found 2 different (from different capacity 4 packs) of old Energizer AA NiMH. They were deader than dead. One charged up with zero problem and worked immediately, the other gave an error on my eneloop charger, would not take charge. But I just got a NiteCore D4, and last night I was reading stuff (to resurrect old depleted NiMH, use high current charge), wanted to try it... and the one that wasn't working charged up and works. These don't hold capacity sitting more than 36 hours, but they work fine in my red Gerber Ultra Tasklight... I think the charge slips away before the light can even use it all LOL. However, they were sitting in a box for 10 years, and I used the Hell out of them back then... for flash photography (until I found I prefer to take pictures in the dark without flash by pushing fast film and using long aperture times-- I cannot figure out how to take pictures in the dark with a digital camera). Anyway... just kidding, Energizer! (But we'd all really like a 3v Li primary AAA, please!)



Yeah i get the same problem with my older Energizers as well.. at least the 2500mAh ones. My dad has some 2000mah ones that still work pretty good. Have to check to see if they hold their charge though.


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## chillinn (Jan 8, 2015)

MidnightDistortions said:


> Yeah i get the same problem with my older Energizers as well.. at least the 2500mAh ones. My dad has some 2000mah ones that still work pretty good. Have to check to see if they hold their charge though.



Just FYI, the one that worked immediately (i.e. charged up as if 10 years never happened) was a 2500mAh. The one I just resurrected last night is a 2300mAh. But I have no way to know actual capacity until there's enough $$ for an analyzer.


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## Grijon (Jan 8, 2015)

JerryM said:


> Hi Grihhon,
> I did not take it in a negative way. No problems, and we are just trying to learn explore and enjoy the hobby, which is useful, and fun at times,



Glad to hear and thank you very much!



> I agree my test is not significant from the point of statistics. It was not intended to be. However, it does show that on that day with those lights and batteries the Tenergys outperformed the Eneloops. That cannot be reasonably disputed, and was in response to comments that the Tenergys might do well when freshly charged, but in a week or a month they would be discharged to a much larger extent than Eneloops. That has proven to be incorrect in my own trials of several lights, AA and AAA, and with different batteries. Such tests do in fact show something about the batteries. Not to a designer, but to a person wondering what to buy to get the best bang for the buck. To a newby who asks what to buy in batteries for his lights it is not so simple to say that everything except Eneloops are junk. I dispute that with some information from some tests that give info as to how long will a certain battery lasts in my flashlights. At the same price I would probably buy Eneloops, and have plenty, but they have priced themselves out of my market until I can determine that they are worth twice or more than Tenergys which have performed better for me. I have a couple more batteries that have not been charged for almost two months, and I will run my unscientific tests on them when they sit idle a bit longer.



Well said; with this explanation I fully understand what you did and why - and I agree completely!



> I realize that one can do all sorts of experiments that are very useful. I very much appreciate those efforts and find the interesting. However, some of us, are not so interested in at what point a battery reaches 50% of capacity at 1 amp as we are in what they cost and how they perform in our lights. That is my own focus. I am not designing anything so although interesting at times such tests and information is of limited usefulness to me and the average user,not on these forums. I have used them when I wondered which lion batteries to buy, and once was surprised at how well some Trustfire 18650 had performed.
> 
> I realize that many here have forgotten more about batteries and light than I will ever know. But I can determine how much something costs, how it performs, and if it will last long enough to be cost effective. I have not found such information here or on CPF. For that reason I think that some of the attitudes regarding batteries are not reasonable or helpful.
> 
> ...



I understand some more, ha ha! Again well said, sir, and I thank you and return the well wishes!


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## JerryM (Jan 8, 2015)

Hi chillinn,
Quote
Spending a lot of time in the garage where all my stuff is packed in boxes, and came across some batteries I knew I had but had not seen since ~2003/5 when I packed the boxes up... found 2 different (from different capacity 4 packs) of old Energizer AA NiMH. end quote

Ain't it strange that some things can remain out of sight-out of mind for a long time, and when/if you discard it you discover you need it badly within the next week?? But then it is gone.


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## ChibiM (Jan 10, 2015)

The good thing about eneloops, is that you don`t even have to test them.. you just simply know they will work well! 
no discussions necessary, no hours of waiting.. Just take them when you need them, and they will work. 
 

Not saying that tenergy are bad cells.. I never had them.. and honestly, I would like to try them out (because you like them so much). But they just don`t look as good as eneloops :thumbsup: (which might not be of importance to some)

and maybe someone should send CPF member HKJ some tenergy cells for testing. 
as well as CPF member PowerMeUp for some heavy cycle testing.


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## JerryM (Jan 10, 2015)

ChibiM said:


> The good thing about eneloops, is that you don`t even have to test them.. you just simply know they will work well!
> no discussions necessary, no hours of waiting.. Just take them when you need them, and they will work.
> 
> 
> ...



I don't dispute that, however, there is an implication that it is not true for other brands. You admit you have not used Tenergy. How then can you say they are inferior? 
I do not really have a dog in this fight, but since the price of Eneloops is so high compared to Tenergy, for instance, it is reasonable to determine if they are that much better. In my unscientific tests they are not. I did not charge the batteries I used, but let them deplete as they would. As to liking Tenergys, I had never heard of them until somone asked what was the best AA/AAA batteries for the buck. I checked prices and thought that eneloops, at $3-$4 each vs Tenergy at $1.68-$1.75 each, had about priced themselves out of many folks market, at least mine if you are looking for the "best bang for the buck.". I wonder how one can give the best advice if he has never tried other brands that are less expensive. Who stores their batteries for a year and does not recharge them before use?

Years ago my ME prof made the statement "The answer to an engineering problem is not efficiency, but dollars and cents." That was before NASA and that might not always be true. However, if you cannot afford the best efficency you must make compromises.

I wish that instead of bad mouthing everything except eneloops you who have a greater knowledge than I do would do a run test with some other brands than eneloop (include eneloop) and prove with tests how other brands perform in specific lights and how long they put out enough light to be useful under most circumstances.

I do not have experience regarding how slowly various brands of batteries self discharge. Does anyone here have such data? It would be helpful. It is of little importance to me if an eneloop will remain charged for 5 years and be usable. I don't have so many batteries that charging them after a month or more is a problem. 
So I would challenge (a friendly challenge) anyone here to make some comparisons as to length of time since charged and run times, and compare the prices of Tenergy (or other brands) vs eneloops and show that eneloops are worth the difference at current prices. I realize it would take months to do such, but it won't happen without "the first step." Isn't that the kind of thing one does for fun?

Maybe then one can say anything but eneloop is junk, but so far no one had proven such. "Saying a thing don't make it true."
One could do curves showing how long it takes for a XX month old to reach X % of charge. 

Best Regards,
Jerry


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 10, 2015)

I'd definitely like to see some Tenergy's go through the same torture tests we've seen from the gen1 vs gen4 Eneloops, and Japanese vs Chinese Eneloop testing. Even if they only perform half as well, maybe they're worth the price.


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## JerryM (Jan 10, 2015)

I realize that it might not ever be high enough on the priority list to do, but I would too. I want to reiterate that the only interest I have in Tenergy is whether or not it is cost effective compared to other brands.I certainly have no quarrel with anyone wanting what they perceive as best. I do have a couple more batteries, eneloop and Tenergy, that I charged and set aside for a more than one month comparison. Around the 21st I think I will see how they stack up. I have the impression that the eneloop holds its charge better than the Tenergy Premium, but even though it has a higher voltage it did not run as long. 
I bought some Tenergy Centuras to see how they will last, but have not had them long enough to find out.

I am not necessarily sold on Tenergys to the exclusion of other brands. It just happens to have been mentioned in a question as to Tenergy vs Eneloop considering the cost of each. So far, however, the results have been good with them.

I am wondering what "torture tests" you are referencing? Maybe heat and cold and time?

Thanks for the reply. 

Regards,
Jerry


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 10, 2015)

JerryM said:


> I do have a couple more batteries, eneloop and Tenergy, that I charged and set aside for a more than one month comparison. Around the 21st I think I will see how they stack up. I have the impression that the eneloop holds its charge better than the Tenergy Premium, but even though it has a higher voltage it did not run as long.



Tenergy Premiums are not low-self-discharge, so Eneloops will definitely hold their charge much better over the long-run. Most non low-self-discharge cells can hold a decent charge for about 6 months, but after that they probably won't have much left. Extremely high capacity cells might hold a charge for only a month or two.

Tenergy Centuras are their LSD brand. I have a couple of their 9 volt Centuras. They seem like decent batteries, but we'll see if they still hold up in a few years. My 8.5 year old Eneloops still have almost all their original capacity, have excellent LSD, and can still be used in high-drain devices. Every other non-Eneloop I've owned has degraded to only handling low-drain devices by that time.



> I am wondering what "torture tests" you are referencing? Maybe heat and cold and time?



No, look for the threads on gen 1 vs gen 4, and Japanese vs Chinese Enloops. They were high drain / high charge full cycles done to the cells, to see how many cycles they would last and what happens to their capacity. Obviously they came nowhere close to their rated number of cycles (which I think is based on partial discharges and charges, and at a lower charge/discharge rate), but the gen4 did seem to have about twice the cycles as gen1, so the "2100 cycles" vs "1000 cycles" seems accurate (as a ratio), at least for the Japanese cells.


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## JerryM (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks for the reply. 
The reason I have the Tenergy Premiums to test is that is what I bought at the time. I have not used Tenergy batteries until probable 3 months ago, maybe less. I did purchase some Centuras, and in time will see how they hold up. Eneloops do hold their charges well, and maybe even better than the Centuras, but we'll see in time. 
I really do not care how tests turn out, but I am just interested to learn something. I have more eneloops than I might ever use, but it is fun to use and fool with others.

Jerry


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## MidnightDistortions (Jan 10, 2015)

chillinn said:


> Just FYI, the one that worked immediately (i.e. charged up as if 10 years never happened) was a 2500mAh. The one I just resurrected last night is a 2300mAh. But I have no way to know actual capacity until there's enough $$ for an analyzer.



Well if they were left in good condition to begin with maybe they were easy to resurrect. I found some 2000mAh and the newer 2300mAh cells completely drained and ran some tests and they work fine under 500mAh loads. The same pile had some Rayovacs and a few of them while they reached a decent amount of capacity the voltage was lower than the Energizers. They may also have been subjected to severe overcharging which i was purposely trying to get them to overcharge a bit because i figured it wouldn't take much for them to go back to 0 volts under load without the overcharging.



ChibiM said:


> The good thing about eneloops, is that you don`t even have to test them.. you just simply know they will work well!
> no discussions necessary, no hours of waiting.. Just take them when you need them, and they will work.
> 
> 
> ...





WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I'd definitely like to see some Tenergy's go through the same torture tests we've seen from the gen1 vs gen4 Eneloops, and Japanese vs Chinese Eneloop testing. Even if they only perform half as well, maybe they're worth the price.



I think the consensus here is that Eneloops are suitable alkaline replacements. I use my crap batteries in low drain devices like WITL does. I actually ran into the idea myself since the Duracells worked just fine in my PC mouse and they even work in lights and other low drain. I only found out they were crap when i tried using them in a USB cellphone charger when i couldn't even get my charge to exceed 10%. When i got the La Crosse charger they definitely came up as crap batteries and had under 60% or roughly about 1,300mAh batteries, designed to hold 2,300mAh. Not to mention they had some voltage depression they couldn't maintain a 1.2 voltage under load. Even though i got a pack of Duracells (Eneloop Pro) it was about when i discovered the Eneloops and ever since then, Eneloops has been my favorite brand, they hold their charge for months on end and still have a relatively good charge. It's nice to know Duracell took advantage of the Eneloop technology since they were my favorite alkaline brand and they do well with rechargeables as well. Energizers newer 2300mAh batteries are pretty good as well. I use them in an EDC AA incandescent Maglite and they work for quite a long time, though at least until the batteries are drained lol.. i was thinking about testing the run time but never got around to doing that. 

WITL, i'm with you on that.. they seem pretty good but only have the 9 volts and it would be nice to have some extras to run those torture tests.


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## Viking (Jan 10, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I have a couple of their 9 volt Centuras. They seem like decent batteries, but we'll see if they still hold up in a few years. My 8.5 year old Eneloops still have almost all their original capacity, have excellent LSD, and can still be used in high-drain devices. Every other non-Eneloop I've owned has degraded to only handling low-drain devices by that time.



Comparing the durability of a 9v Tenergy battery to an eneloop cell won't tell you much about the difference in quality between the two brands. 9 volt batteries are known to not have near the same lifetime as individual cells.

This is because the individual cells within the battery won't be exactly equally drained.
One or more of the cells will usually become weaker and weaker due to being repeatedly over discharged.
This is further enhanced by the fact that they usually don't get properly charged either.
When charging cells in series you should on a regular basis over charge them with a gentle 0.1C rate for about 16 hours to make sure all the cells in the battery are evenly balanced and full.

If you wanna prolong the life of your 9 volt batteries , I will advise you not to deplete them to the same extent you normally do for individual cells.


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## snakebite (Jan 10, 2015)

a li-ion has a discharge charectaristic very close to 3 nimh cells in series.
the spacer can be as simple as the cardboard sleeve from a t5 fluorescent tube cut to length or even cereal box cardboard curled up to take up the space/eliminate rattle.
not sure what the size would work out to.the i.d of most lights is just too tight for a 26650.so maybe a 24500?



chillinn said:


> Officially, this is the first confirmation I have of this swap... but I had sort of picked up on that it was possible. Just for my edification, (anyone), if the 3 AAA battery was a single cell, what would it be called (what is the diameter and height of the carrier?)? And of this "spacer," for the 18500, can (anyone) please describe it? Thanks. Any other similar swaps for the 3AAA carrier?


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## Neilbenecke (Jan 10, 2015)

snakebite said:


> a li-ion has a discharge charectaristic very close to 3 nimh cells in series.
> the spacer can be as simple as the cardboard sleeve from a t5 fluorescent tube cut to length or even cereal box cardboard curled up to take up the space/eliminate rattle.
> not sure what the size would work out to.the i.d of most lights is just too tight for a 26650.so maybe a 24500?



Just curious snakebite are you a herper or is your handle snakebite for some other reason ?


Sent from my iPad using Candlepowerforum


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## ChibiM (Jan 12, 2015)

JerryM said:


> I don't dispute that, however, there is an implication that it is not true for other brands. You admit you have not used Tenergy. How then can you say they are inferior?
> I do not really have a dog in this fight, but since the price of Eneloops is so high compared to Tenergy, for instance, it is reasonable to determine if they are that much better. In my unscientific tests they are not. I did not charge the batteries I used, but let them deplete as they would. As to liking Tenergys, I had never heard of them until somone asked what was the best AA/AAA batteries for the buck. I checked prices and thought that eneloops, at $3-$4 each vs Tenergy at $1.68-$1.75 each, had about priced themselves out of many folks market, at least mine if you are looking for the "best bang for the buck.". I wonder how one can give the best advice if he has never tried other brands that are less expensive. Who stores their batteries for a year and does not recharge them before use?
> 
> Years ago my ME prof made the statement "The answer to an engineering problem is not efficiency, but dollars and cents." That was before NASA and that might not always be true. However, if you cannot afford the best efficency you must make compromises.
> ...



Hi Jerry. 

stay calm!

you dont need to jump to false conclusions. 
Where did I say that your tenergy cells are inferior? Although I think so, I don`t know of a post I openly wrote that. 
If something has a great record for great batteries for 10 years, why would I have to try every new cell on the block? 
I dont have the time and tools to do that. 
And, where do I badmouth all batteries except eneloop? :fail:

I read (a lot of) reviews about different NiMh batteries, so I (me) don`t feel the urge to double check everyones review to see if they are true. (I even send non-eneloop batteries to people to test) I see that eneloops are reviewed as one of the best cells in the world. Over and over again. 
There is a very very low rate of failing eneloop batteries. Even after long time (ab)use. 
I have read tons and tons of stories about other brands, failing.. even after a few months. Even 1 out of 8.. or even 1 out of 4.
So the choice is easy for me.

I know eneloop *are great batteries* so I recommend them to everybody! 
I wouldnt recommend tenergy batteries.. Simply because they dont have a proven track record. no one has proven they are great "saying a thing don`t make it true)
If they did have a proven record, and you can get them cheap, I would probably let people be aware of them.. (I dont badmouth all batteries except eneloop.. and I dont say that anything but eneloop is junk !)

Depending on where you live, you can get eneloops definitely for less than $4 a piece, especially standard ones. 
I even sell them for less than that. and thats Including worldwide shipping, paypal fees, and currency exchange loss.

So on the same note: Tenergy batteries are more expensive for me than eneloops!!.. 
Shipping from the US is a killer. Why would I have to buy them? Are they better?
So for me its very simple: Eneloops are the way to go! 
Cheaper, high quality, reliable, long history, BEST looking, readily available.

ps. As much as I love my eneloops, I too am interested in other batteries. I read most of the battery NiMh battery reviews on CPF and other forums. It doesnt mean I will buy them.. unless they are proven much better, in terms of quality, discharge rate, reliability, long term testing. Which hasnt happened yet.


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## chillinn (Jan 12, 2015)

ChibiM said:


> Depending on where you live, you can get eneloops definitely for less than $4 a piece, especially standard ones.
> I even sell them for less than that. and thats Including worldwide shipping, paypal fees, and currency exchange loss.
> 
> So on the same note: Tenergy batteries are more expensive for me than eneloops!!..
> ...



$3.75/cell (8 for $30) is not in any way cheap! That is paying a premium for the NAME. Find me more expensive batteries! There are no batteries more expensive than brand "Eneloop."

From NLee the Engineer's reviews on Amazon, Tenergy _Centura_ (with capacity equal or better than Eneloop Pro, _and_ all the true Eneloop clones, which I'm not sure these are) perform just as good as eneloop's LSD, and far less expensive (1/2 the price at least!), making them the smarter purchase. You get twice as many cells with the same, or better, specs than Eneloop.

The best price I see on (in quotes) "eneloops" (AAA) are 4 for $8 on eBay, and those are ion core duraloops. If you spend twice that for a label, with no increase in performance or longevity... all capitalist republics thank you for keeping the economy rolling.

WHO PAYS FOR SHIPPING??? ON HEAVY BATTERIES????!!! Don't do that.
Go to Amazon, pad your order over $35, and get free shipping.

Edit:
that said, I am strongly considering relocating to Tokyo. "... I really think so...." Not just for the access to Eneloops.


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## MidnightDistortions (Jan 12, 2015)

Viking said:


> Comparing the durability of a 9v Tenergy battery to an eneloop cell won't tell you much about the difference in quality between the two brands. 9 volt batteries are known to not have near the same lifetime as individual cells.
> 
> This is because the individual cells within the battery won't be exactly equally drained.
> One or more of the cells will usually become weaker and weaker due to being repeatedly over discharged.
> ...



I didn't realize i had this one device that drained 9 volt batteries pretty quickly, which i used to discharge/refresh my 9 volts. They got discharged to about 2volts each before i managed to pull them off. I would have liked to have them only discharged to about 4 volts, but considering these batteries will be used in multimeters and my infrared thermometer i'm not too worried about these cells and should last quite a long time regardless (since i got the Tenergy charger with it and has -dV).


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## ChibiM (Jan 12, 2015)

Hi shilinn, your missing my point.
You are taking a few things out of proportion. We weren't merely talkin about eneloop pro. 
But yeah, do what you like, and get yourself Tenergy batteries. Until they are proven to be better I'll stick with the old trusty eneloops.


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## JerryM (Jan 12, 2015)

Hi ChibiM,
I hope I am calm, but your post implies that all are inferior to Eneloop. If the price does not bother you, then there is no reason to buy other that which has proven to be great. That is if you have no interest in exploring other options for advice to questions. I admit that you are an acknowledged expert. I do not say that with any sarcasm. So why do you not find out more about other products if you want to give the best advice?
As stated, I had never heard of Tenergy or EBL or others until a couple of months ago when the question was asked on a forum whether or not Eneloop was enough better than Tenergy to justify the price difference. I became curious and bought some Tenergy batteries to see what I thought. The results of my opinion are posted so I will not reiterate them. I will never use all the batteries I have on hand, but it is interesting to me to examine options to any item that becomes more expensive than others that MAY be as useful to an individual. I agree with chillinn that $3.75 per battery is not cheap. If I had need for more batteries, and thought that a particular brand would meet my needs better than anything else, then I would buy it. I am just doing something I find interesting.
It is OK to recommend Eneloops, and I agree that they are great batteries, but that does not answer the question as to whether they are so much better that they justify the much greater cost. Until it is proven by time and tests that they are then the question remains unanswered

You said, “ I read (a lot of) reviews about different NiMh batteries, so I (me) don`t feel the urge to double check everyones review to see if they are true.”
That is fine, but have you ever seen a detailed review of Tenergy batteries that would indicate to you that they are not as good as Eneloop? That is the kind of thing I have looked for. In fact when looking at battery curves regarding performance, I have never noticed anything about Tenergy. If, for example, it could be shown that Tenergy depleted to XX% in half the time as Eneloop, that would be helpful.
All I am attempting to do is determine if Eneloop is twice as good to justify twice the price. Obviously each individual would have to examine all the requirements including, cost, longevity, and performance in specific lights to make a considered decision.

You stated “As much as I love my eneloops, I too am interested in other batteries. I read most of the battery NiMh battery reviews on CPF and other forums. It doesnt mean I will buy them.. unless they are proven much better, in terms of quality, discharge rate, reliability, long term testing. Which hasnt happened yet.” 
Have you tested Tenergy, for example, with those criteria? There is no way to prove except by experience (time) and tests that others are inferior. I realize that it would be impractical for you to test every battery. But when you state that A is better than B or C you should be able to provide some element proof, and not just an opinion, albeit a considered opinion. So far I have not seen data to support that Tenergy batteries are inferior to eneloops. In time if their longevity is too short I will re-consider.
Thanks for the reply and I do value your expertise.

Jerry


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## chillinn (Jan 12, 2015)

ChibiM said:


> Hi shilinn,



O.O 

Hello, ChibiM! Greetings and salutations!



ChibiM said:


> your _[sic]_ missing my point.



If that is the case, and if you are so inclined to be understood, then please be more clear.



ChibiM said:


> You are taking a few things out of proportion.



Ah, one or two many to list, I suppose?



ChibiM said:


> We weren't merely talkin about eneloop pro.



Nor was I. But if you'd like to elaborate, rather than fruitlessly saying nothing, I am willing to entertain your point, if there is one other than: "I only eat candy. Its delicious. No point in ever tasting anything else." There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, btw, except that you can't really say one way or the other what anything else tastes like.



ChibiM said:


> But yeah, do what you like, and get yourself Tenergy batteries.



From the bottom of my heart, I thank you for your permission! Now I can get this party started.



ChibiM said:


> Until they are proven to be better I'll stick with the old trusty eneloops.



I have doubts, but here is your proof:



> By*NLee the Engineer
> This review is from: Tenergy Centura AA Low Self-Discharge LSD NiMH Rechargeable Batteries, 1 Card 4xAA (Electronics)
> The product description of this item (Tenergy Centura AA Low Self-Discharge (LSD) NiMH Rechargeable Batteries) makes many similar claims as the original SANYO eneloop. The manufacturer even provided several charts, showing performance of Tenergy Centura to be nearly identical to that of Sanyo eneloop.
> 
> ...


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## Grijon (Jan 12, 2015)

I am enjoying my flashlights very much. I have 5 AA Fenix lights that take a total of 16 AA batteries.

I am enjoying my batteries and chargers very much. I have 16xAA Tenergy 2600mAh, 16xAA Duracell Ion Core 2400mAh, and 16xAA Eneloop 4th gens; I have a Maha MH-C9000 and an old Intertek Energizer-branded charger. I have 16xAA AmazonBasics 2400mAh MIJ in the mail along with another C9000. I have a Tenergy TN156 that broke in less than 3 months' use and is going to be replaced by the vendor I bought it from (the excellent fenix-store.com!).

My Tenergy AA batteries have broken wrappers. They split open within 2 weeks of being put into service. I was assured that they are fine to use and that the damage is purely cosmetic. The charger broke down about a month later; it doesn't charge in any bay and it doesn't recognize any battery in the left-most bay. The LCD indicators for the other 3 bays loop endlessly while the charger doesn't do anything to the batteries in them.

*I have 16 Tenergy batteries with wrappers that broke within 2 weeks and a Tenergy charger that didn't last 3 months.*

I have used my Maha to Refresh and Analyze my 16 Duracell Ion Cores, which are accepted on CPF and elsewhere as being rebranded high-capacity Eneloops. The results of a 1000mA charge followed by a 500mA discharge for each of the 16 resulted in a low of 2,348mAh and a high of 2,407mAh. These batteries have less than 4 cycles on them.

I have used my Maha to Refresh and Analyze my 16 Tenergy 2600mAh batteries. They have less than 10 cycles on them, all within the last 3 months. The results of a 1000mA charge followed by a 500mA discharge for each of the 16 resulted in a low of 1,760mAh and a high of 2,295mAh.

*Duracell 2400mAh set of 16: All within 3% of each other and all within 3% of their rating. Average of the 16: 2,390mAh

Tenergy 2600mAh set of 16: Over a 30% spread in capacity with the best falling short of their rating by nearly 12% and the worst falling short by over 32%. Average of the 16: 2,045mAh*

While these are not IEC ratings, they were all done on the same C9000 under the same conditions with the same settings after being used in the same lights.


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## Grijon (Jan 12, 2015)

I'd like to add that I will be doing the IEC testing procedure on all of my batteries, which will take some time. I'll be very happy to post those numbers when I have them!


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## Grijon (Jan 12, 2015)

One last thing, then I'll shut up for the night.

My previous post is to share my experience and show some actual data. I am not endorsing or condemning any of the brands, just sharing.

lovecpf


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## JerryM (Jan 12, 2015)

[I have 16 Tenergy batteries with wrappers that broke within 2 weeks and a Tenergy charger that didn't last 3 months.]

I would say that is not good for Tenergy. However, I have about the same number that I have used for about 3 months without any similar problem. So far so good.:0 I will be interested in your results.
Jerry


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## StorminMatt (Jan 13, 2015)

JerryM said:


> [I have 16 Tenergy batteries with wrappers that broke within 2 weeks and a Tenergy charger that didn't last 3 months.]
> 
> I would say that is not good for Tenergy. However, I have about the same number that I have used for about 3 months without any similar problem. So far so good.:0 I will be interested in your results.
> Jerry



I also had a Tenergy charger conk out on me prematurely. A couple of different things happened. First of all, the wires to the sliders started to break. This was not too big of a deal, as I could just solder in new wires. But still, this should NOT be happening on a charger that isn't even six months old. Secondly, the charger would randomly terminate the charge early. This is certainly more serious, as it can lead to reverse charging on batteries that you think are fully charged (but which are NOT). Perhaps the WORST thing about this is that the warranty on the charger is only three months! So because this happened after about five months, they basically told me to screw myself. NICE! I bought a Maha 808 to replace it, and never looked back. I will NEVER buy another Tenergy charger, and would never recommend one to anyone.

As far as their batteries, I have generally had REALLY good luck with them. I have C and D cells in both Premium and LSD Centura flavor. And they have been solid performers. After over two years, my oldest cells are still going strong. However, I can't speak about their AA batteries, as I have none. Back when I got my AA batteries, Tenergy batteries were only available online. So I generally went for what was available in stores (original 2000mAH Duraloops). However, I would think they should be as good as their C and D cells.


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## darklord (Sep 17, 2015)

Meanwhile, months (years?) after the OP........

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-AAA-Ni...POSTAGE-/231690295802?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

I'd be likely to consume these with a pound of salt, I think! But 1800 is the claim :huh:


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## MidnightDistortions (Sep 17, 2015)

I have seen these http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HIW3Q0Y/?tag=cpf0b6-20 but EBL is not entirely reliable. Also this, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WL3R5M/?tag=cpf0b6-20 but i think i would rather invest in some Eneloop Pros instead for the LSD quality.


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## ChibiM (Sep 19, 2015)

Anyone ever sent those EBL to HKJ?


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## TinderBox (UK) (Sep 19, 2015)

I have never tried these AAA 1100mah but they are cheap.

https://www.7dayshop.com/rechargeable-aaa-batteries/filter/7dayshop

John.


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## snakebite (Sep 19, 2015)

yes.i breed boas.
the nick came from getting bitten by a bad tempered abused neglected boa i rescued.a bunch of friends were over at the time and stuck me with the nick.
btw that snake settled down that evening after we handled her a while,treated the mites,and fed her 2 huge rats.


Neilbenecke said:


> Just curious snakebite are you a herper or is your handle snakebite for some other reason ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Candlepowerforum


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## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 13, 2016)

"Lloytron AAA 1100mAh NIMH AccuUltra Battery" selling at £3.49 for 4x have been tested by a couple of buyers and get 950mah to 1000mah which is better than a lot of big brands 1000mah that test to 800mah to 900mah

Anybody got any better performing AAA nimh battery`s ???

John.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006WXY5AA/

John.


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## magellan (Feb 13, 2016)

Interesting. I note some reviewers are saying they're testing out at around 1000 mAh but they're not lasting as long as some other batteries. But I think I'll get a pack myself as I've never tried the Lloytrons before as I usually stick to Sanyo Eneloops and Duracell Iron Core.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 13, 2016)

Is Lloytrons not just a brand, or do they make nimh battery`s, if they don't make them then who did make them as 1000mah is better than the big brands i have tested.

John.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 13, 2016)

Standard Eneloops AAA are only 800mah, and XX are only 900mah and they are not cheap, The Lloytron AAA 1100mAh are not LSD, but sometimes an extra 200mah can come in handy and these are cheap.

John.



magellan said:


> Interesting. I note some reviewers are saying they're testing out at around 1000 mAh but they're not lasting as long as some other batteries. But I think I'll get a pack myself as I've never tried the Lloytrons before as I usually stick to Sanyo Eneloops and Duracell Iron Core.


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## Xiphex (Feb 14, 2016)

I've never heard of these brands before: Tenergy Premium, Centura and Lloytron < are they American?

Sony Cycle Energy Blues are the best top notch! AA & AAA - Both can hold 80% charge for 3 years , performance wise, it's solid, reliable and long lasting, use for most of my main core AA/AAA electronics i.e. MDRNC100D 
Then Duracell (Nitecore EA41) beside Eneloops (Fenix E41) -> Duracell batteries are just as good as Eneloops. Rarely have to charge these batteries unless i use the flashlights heavily.
Then Sony Cycle Energy Green AA : Everyday Rechargeable Low Discharge, long lasting and holds charge long for basic electronics
Then Energizer AAA 900mAh-700mAh - Good batteries, holds charge and does not faint. 

Energizer AA Sucks badly. I charge a couple batteries, a week later the AAs faint and need to be boosted by an initiation charge yet after that it would only be half charged no matter how much it charges. I'll check the lifespan with my opus.
I only use NiMh Rechargeable in remote controls because of alkaline corrosion


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## magellan (Feb 15, 2016)

StorminMatt said:


> I also had a Tenergy charger conk out on me prematurely. A couple of different things happened. First of all, the wires to the sliders started to break. This was not too big of a deal, as I could just solder in new wires. But still, this should NOT be happening on a charger that isn't even six months old. Secondly, the charger would randomly terminate the charge early. This is certainly more serious, as it can lead to reverse charging on batteries that you think are fully charged (but which are NOT). Perhaps the WORST thing about this is that the warranty on the charger is only three months! So because this happened after about five months, they basically told me to screw myself. NICE! I bought a Maha 808 to replace it, and never looked back. I will NEVER buy another Tenergy charger, and would never recommend one to anyone.
> 
> As far as their batteries, I have generally had REALLY good luck with them. I have C and D cells in both Premium and LSD Centura flavor. And they have been solid performers. After over two years, my oldest cells are still going strong. However, I can't speak about their AA batteries, as I have none. Back when I got my AA batteries, Tenergy batteries were only available online. So I generally went for what was available in stores (original 2000mAh). However, I would think they should be as good as their C and D cells.



Hi Matt, I've had good luck with the Tenergy LSD nimh AAA batteries. NLee the engineer over on Amazon who reviews lots of battery and charger products liked them too. Just my subjective impression perhaps but it seems to me Tenergy has improved over the last few years, and I suspect they're trying to go head to head with the Sanyo Eneloops to try to take market share from them.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 15, 2016)

Nice Results

John

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0040ZXX28/?tag=cpf0b6-20



magellan said:


> Hi Matt, I've had good luck with the Tenergy LSD nimh AAA batteries. NLee the engineer over on Amazon who reviews lots of battery and charger products liked them too. Just my subjective impression perhaps but it seems to me Tenergy has improved over the last few years, and I suspect they're trying to go head to head with the Sanyo Eneloops to try to take market share from them.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 24, 2016)

Ok i just got my 4 packs of "Lloytron AAA 1100mAh NIMH AccuUltra Battery" at £3.49 pack of 4, took 11 days to travel 10 miles to my home.

These are NOT LSD battery`s

Out of pack voltage and remaning capacity.

1: 1.23v 479mah at 0.2C
2: 1.26v 306mah at 0.2C (I will keep an eye on this one)
3: 1.25v 416mah at 0.2C
4: 1.26v 469mah at 0.2C

*Battery Weight 12.7g compare it too Energizer AAA 1000mah 12.4g , Ansmann AAA 1000mah 11.6g
*
OK, next i will do an 16 hour charge at 110ma and then discharge at 0.2C and will post the results below once i get them.

1: 989mah
2: 976mah
3: 969mah
4: 982mah

John.


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## mklp29 (Aug 20, 2016)

StorminMatt said:


> I have a Coast PX25 that I use for a 6 mile night walk that I take with a walking group. The light is GREAT for this in terms of brightness (not too much, not too little) and size. However, it uses AAA batteries, and it sucks them down like a vacuum cleaner. Somewhat more than half way through the walk (maybe 2/3), my Duraloops are pretty much DONE. And changing batteries on the move (ESPECIALLY in a light with a battery holder) is not the easiest thing to do (it's a pain to have to stop, and then catch up again). So what I would REALLY like is the AAA NiMH battery with the highest capacity possible. It doesn't have to be LSD, as the batteries will be charged immediately before the walk and used pretty much ASAP. But I'm looking for something that can REALLY put out in terms of mAH. Any suggestions?




i have AAA bateries from EBL rhat are 1100 mah


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## StorminMatt (Aug 21, 2016)

Kind of funny this thread is still going on, especially since I have long since moved on from that light (and, to a large degree, AAA batteries).


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