# how many lumens do you reasly need



## raggie33 (Jan 2, 2021)

in a pratical sence sure i have a 14000 lumen light. but i probaly onky need around 700 lumens!how about you?


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## archimedes (Jan 2, 2021)

I like to have fifty lumens or so, for every day use


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## Russ/TN (Jan 2, 2021)

350 lumen covers me pretty well, I always have a good bit more close to hand though.
Russ


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## bigburly912 (Jan 2, 2021)

My 5 year old daughter and I just walked a 4 mile trail with a sofirn c01s and a maglite ML300lx for spotting the “wendigos” on the trail. : D. She had fun


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## Truckvet (Jan 2, 2021)

For some reason I need as many lumens as can be fit in 
a flashlight with about a 1 inch head.

With my budget its now about 4000 lumens.


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## richbuff (Jan 2, 2021)

For indoor use, up close, the bare minimum lowest mode is all I need. To stave off major depression caused by being in this world, 20,000 lumens in a power throw config works real well, as well as 100,000 lumens in a pure flood configuration. 4,000 lumens is my minimum therapeutic dose, 10,000 lumens is average maintenance level.


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## jabe1 (Jan 2, 2021)

For most applications, I use less than approximately 50 lumens. I do like having more at my disposal, especially when on night walks with the dog. Almost all of the lights that I carry regularly top out somewhere around 500 lumens, but high mode is used very infrequently.
even with a “thrower” It doesn’t do me much good lighting something farther out than I can reliably see.


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## mickb (Jan 2, 2021)

800-1000 for me, even had a custom mod guy downrate a convoy C8 to 800 for me. If flashlight tech would have frozen in 2014 or so I would be in continual heaven


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## LeanBurn (Jan 2, 2021)

Inside...7L, outside at night...40L is decent-but I can get by with 17L quite easily.


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## xxo (Jan 3, 2021)

For a flashlight with a focused beam (as opposed to a lightbulb or lantern) as few lumens as possible to get the beam pattern, throw and tint that I want. I consider excessive lumens as a waste of battery power, a killer of night adapted vision and a generator of unwanted heat and glare.

For up close, my 37 lumen Solitaire is more than bright enough and for throw and a ML25 with 170 ish lumens dose the job nicely out as far as I 'm likely to use a flashlight in the places I go.


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## Jean-Luc Descarte (Jan 3, 2021)

Indoors, 25lm or less is the brunt of power I use. Outside, about 80-100 in a dark part of the city, likely less in a rural field with adapted night vision. But the 500+ option is always nice to have.


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## Stress_Test (Jan 3, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> ..... but i probaly *only *need around 700 lumens!how about you?





Truckvet said:


> .....
> 
> With my budget its now about 4000 lumens.





mickb said:


> 800-1000 for me, even had a custom mod guy downrate a convoy C8 to 800 for me. If flashlight tech would have frozen in 2014 or so I would be in continual heaven



[ note, original text highlighted red by me ]

See, after coming back to CPF just a few months ago, after a long absence (2012? 2014?), this is the kind of stuff that blows my mind and makes me crack up! :laughing:


People are saying they NEED thousands of lumens! For what?!?! Are you lighting a football game singlehandedly on a cloudy moonless night?!

I have to wonder how many people are really USING that level of output for anything other than just a party trick, as in "Oooh ahhh look at that" then back in the pocket or holster it goes. 

That Energizer tri-LED light I bought is something like 1200 lumens, and at home inside that's completely unusable because the bounce-back is just painfully bright. You could use it for lighting up a room by pointing it at the ceiling, but if you want it *that *bright why not just turn on the overhead light and be done with it?

Outdoors, I've done some trail and field walking with the old Fenix TK30 that puts out ONLY 500 lumens or so. That was okay for trying to light up something WAY across the field, but just walking, even the spill from that light was enough to blow out my night vision to where I couldn't see _anything _other than where I was pointing the light. 

This is probably just an old-man rant, but _momma mia_. It's nuts to read people talking like they NEED a 1000+ lumen light for their normal EDC usage! Sheesh!


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## LedTed (Jan 3, 2021)

That very much depends on what I’m doing at the time; mind you all with a floody-punch.

Close up inspection at work - 10 or so.
Detailed inspection - 100 or more.
Walking from my car at night - 200 to 300.
Lighting a hallway during a power outage - 500 to 600.
Safely seeing the delivery person to their car from the comfort of my house - as many as I can get.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jan 3, 2021)

Not as many as you think. 50-100 Lumen covers 95% of my life. I’m more about runtime than lumens. Lumens are fun though.


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## marinemaster (Jan 3, 2021)

These are two different questions. Inside 50 to 100 lumens should do.
Outside is a completely different story.
Perfectly happy with 300 to 600 in a suburb. In the country may need 500 to 1500 or more. Beam profile is extremely important outside think of a runner on a trail or a spotlight on a vehicle or helicopter. 
There are also specialized like mining or caves lighting, many others.
Issue with outside is that 80% of currently available flashlights with led get too hot over 600 or 700 lumens.


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## mickb (Jan 3, 2021)

Stress_Test said:


> [ note, original text highlighted red by me ]
> See, after coming back to CPF just a few months ago, after a long absence (2012? 2014?), this is the kind of stuff that blows my mind and makes me crack up! :laughing:
> People are saying they NEED thousands of lumens! For what?!?! Are you lighting a football game singlehandedly on a cloudy moonless night?!



Well since you quoted me in your 'crack-up' for my case hunting/plantation culling at night, ranges out to 100-120 yards, 800-1000 lumens and 45-60KCD is where its at. Same power level useful for checking compounds and fences. Beyond those levels I'd just be burning battery run-time.



> I have to wonder how many people are really USING that level of output for anything other than just a party trick, as in "Oooh ahhh look at that" then back in the pocket or holster it goes.



Well I am one. But who cares what folks are using their lights for anyway . You are famiiar with the idea of a hobby for enjpoyments sake right? I know fellas with Harleys who could get around just as well on a Jap 125. But it obviously meets their needs in some way to ride something 10x louder and chewing a lot more fuel and thats exactly what they would tell you.


> This is probably just an old-man rant, but _momma mia_. It's nuts to read people talking like they NEED a 1000+ lumen light for their normal EDC usage! Sheesh!


Where did the OP say "normal EDC usage"? Different argument.


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## Olumin (Jan 3, 2021)

Day-to-day about 40-50lm.

Outdoors about 200lm. Im not often outdoors.


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## Katherine Alicia (Jan 3, 2021)

Indoors about 15-20lm works for 90% of my needs, outdoors there`s no upper limit. that`s why I`m a bit of an Anduril fan-girl, it covers everything


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## raggie33 (Jan 3, 2021)

oddly this am im thinking i need more like 4000 lumens i was trying to light up end of my street my light a course lit up a part of the area but it was so throwy no flood at all


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## raggie33 (Jan 3, 2021)

Katherine Alicia said:


> Indoors about 15-20lm works for 90% of my needs, outdoors there`s no upper limit. that`s why I`m a bit of an Anduril fan-girl, it covers everything



got a sofirn 21700 coming this week it has anduril


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## Katherine Alicia (Jan 3, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> got a sofirn 21700 coming this week it has anduril




I`m guessing that`ll be the IF25A then? it`ll take some getting used to at first (after the initial shock seeing the UI map LOL), but once you have it set up then it`s as easy or complex as you want it to be, and you`ll soon start memorising parts of it.
Personally after you`ve had a good look at the map and figured out some simple things, Set you temp Config, that`s super important before you start using Turbo and such (it`s the first thing I do on all my new anduril lights).


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## raggie33 (Jan 3, 2021)

Katherine Alicia said:


> I`m guessing that`ll be the IF25A then? it`ll take some getting used to at first (after the initial shock seeing the UI map LOL), but once you have it set up then it`s as easy or complex as you want it to be, and you`ll soon start memorising parts of it.
> Personally after you`ve had a good look at the map and figured out some simple things, Set you temp Config, that`s super important before you start using Turbo and such (it`s the first thing I do on all my new anduril lights).



o i have had andutil lights i still have a emisar. i printed out a cheat sheet


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## Lumen83 (Jan 3, 2021)

40-60 incan lumens For inside the home and general tasks. 100-150ish for walking the dog and around the yard stuff at night. On rare occasions I use a 500 lumen light just to see how cool it is to throw that much light around. I don't have a need for much more than that.


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## Katherine Alicia (Jan 3, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> i printed out a cheat sheet



that`s Cheating!!! :tsk: LOL


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## Owen (Jan 3, 2021)

Stress_Test said:


> This is probably just an old-man rant, but _momma mia_. It's nuts to read people talking like they NEED a 1000+ lumen light for their normal EDC usage! Sheesh!


We live in a society that hardly distinguishes wants from needs any more. That's why so many people are ate up with debt.


I pretty much live in the dark, and could get by with less than I use. 
That's <3 lumens leaving the house every night, and ~20 when I end up hiking into the night while backpacking.

On my job, ~200 from a suitable optic is plenty. 
I'm quite happy to have plenty more on tap, though, as the amount I can make practical use of in an industrial environment is pretty much unlimited. As the night shift guy, with no close coworkers or supervision, I've got about a 4 acre area to myself, full of things that all have to at least be looked at every 1 or 2 hours. Horrible work environment, but a virtual flashaholic playground. 
I can mostly get by with a crappy 3xAAA headlamp, and very well indeed with my <300 lumen flashlight. There's plenty of stuff that I can check more easily, and conveniently, with a higher output light, though. I was just playing around last night using my Zebralight H64w HI to briefly check some equipment with 1300 lumens, and thinking how I wouldn't have minded having double that, since it's so floody. This week, I've been carrying around a Malkoff Hound Dog that puts ~1000 lumens into a big spot, too. Total joy to use.
Huh, what's up with this gas temperature? Did evening shift close that valve? Let's see, I can go up 3 flights of steps and climb a ladder, or...yeah, I'll just stand here, and shine my big flashlight on it


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## Afraid.of.dark (Jan 3, 2021)

richbuff said:


> For indoor use, up close, the bare minimum lowest mode is all I need. To stave off major depression caused by being in this world, 20,000 lumens in a power throw config works real well, as well as 100,000 lumens in a pure flood configuration. 4,000 lumens is my minimum therapeutic dose, 10,000 lumens is average maintenance level.



This made me lol xD 
I do hope you were joking about the depression stuff. But it is funny the way you put it! I am new to the hobby and I feel like I might end up chasing the strongest light to chase away the demons.. For now I think I will be good with about 500 lumens!


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## lightfooted (Jan 3, 2021)

Where I work I don't need a flashlight very much at all because it is a well lit building as well as a well lit parking lot, but there is a couple of corners where there is not only trees and Shrubbery but also a couple of poorly thought out area lighting devices that really only serve to blind someone further away from what might be happening in those dark corners. Once you get into those corners you really don't need a light but until you do, 1000-1200 lumens is just enough to see into them from a distance. Anything less than that tends to get washed out by the surrounding lights...yes it helps even at 300 lumens but it is close to nothing reflecting back. Then there is one other corner in amongst trees that has no lighting at all. Two hundred lumens is enough to see everything there but it's kind of an alley walking into it from one direction so it's nice to be able to instantly illuminate it from the lit area and well into the dark and past it.


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## Truckvet (Jan 3, 2021)

Why do I need a 4000 lumen Flashlight to carry every day?

Same reason I need an excess of food for emergency use.

Did we all know that Stores would run out of Toilet Paper? 
I had a large box of it in my Basement at the time and still 
do.

I like to walk my Dogs in my City in the Dark.
More than once, a Dog has decided to attack my 
Dogs while I do so.

It would be nice to have 4000 lumens to light this
illegal unleashed dog up before we begin the fight.

Or maybe a drug addict will decide to pry his way into
my shed. You may only need 20 lumens to see him
but I NEED 4000 lumens to give me the advantage
so that if the Blind idiot gets away he can tell his 
friends how much a trespass on my Property costs
him.


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## bykfixer (Jan 3, 2021)

When it's dark like back in Thomas Jeffersons day 10-15 is plenty for me. 

Trouble is nearly everwhere I go the all night generator causes lots of shadows so 100 or more is needed.


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## DavidABQ (Jan 3, 2021)

I currently EDC one of the 47 lumen Maglite Solitare flashlights. It works pretty well for me but I wouldn’t mind a little more lumens out of a AAA flashlight. Maybe something around 60-75 lumens? 

I guess the answer to the question about how many lumens do I need is answered with 47; I am not sure I would want any less.


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## raggie33 (Jan 3, 2021)

Katherine Alicia said:


> that`s Cheating!!! :tsk: LOL



im so forgetful lol


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## 340pd (Jan 3, 2021)

200 with a lower option of 10-15.
I find the whole lumen race thing to be comical.


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## Stress_Test (Jan 3, 2021)

340pd said:


> 200 with a lower option of 10-15.
> I find the whole lumen race thing to be comical.



Especially since, not too many years ago, those 1000+ lumen outputs weren't even _possible!_ Not in something you'd carry around on your belt or pocket anyway. 

I guess back then we all wandered around helplessly with our 200 lumen flashlights, bumping into stuff and falling into pits and whatnot.


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## 1313 (Jan 3, 2021)

Need? Not very much. But more is more fun  D4V2 on turbo several times when im walking my dogs because why not.


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## 5S8Zh5 (Jan 3, 2021)

60......


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## richbuff (Jan 3, 2021)

Stress_Test said:


> ... ...and falling into pits and whatnot.


...and rots and sheps and chows and dobs.


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## TheFraz (Jan 3, 2021)

.00005 - 1k(ish)!


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## wweiss (Jan 3, 2021)

With a calibrated HDS, it’s easy to determine for me. Indoor or close work 3-5L, outdoors 10-25L constant for trails with the option to burst to 300L if things go “bump”.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jan 4, 2021)

Did a 10 mile hike yesterday, half of which was in the dark. I needed my headlight (Nitecore HC60) at 420 lumens to safely complete the hike. This was a dirt road from Black Mountain in Ramona, CA to Sutherland Dam and back. The trail has rattlesnakes and mountain lions as well as Jeeps, motorcycles, and bikes riding on it. You need a lot of light to see the hazards and be seen without getting run over. I used my Nitecore E4K on turbo to spot ahead, but in pitch black darkness in the middle of nowhere, I could definitely have used more throw than that 4400 lumen light could muster. For most tasks, I get by with 50 lumens, but in certain situations, a lot isn't nearly enough.


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## nbp (Jan 4, 2021)

The only reason we need super bright lights is to avoid walking closer to the thing we are seeing. People who say they have to check a huge property, well, yeah, people did that for centuries with a torch or candle by walking around. If you want to stand in one place and do it, sure then you need 500k cd or whatever to accomplish the task. You could do it with a lot less if you got closer to the thing you want to see. Sure, it’s fun to shine my 2500 lm Acebeam or BOSS around the marsh behind my house but realistically I really only NEED about 300 lms on any given day. My HDS 325 NLT does everything I need it to. Everything else is gravy.


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## mickb (Jan 4, 2021)

Stress_Test said:


> Especially since, not too many years ago, those 1000+ lumen outputs weren't even _possible!_ Not in something you'd carry around on your belt or pocket anyway.
> 
> I guess back then we all wandered around helplessly with our 200 lumen flashlights, bumping into stuff and falling into pits and whatnot.



Cars werent possible once upon a time either, neither were GPS, washing machines, vacuum cleaners and psychologists. Arguments of need versus convenience vs modern acceptance vs recreational luixury will always devolve into nonsense semantics.

No more replies by computer either thanks, its recreational luxury, not a need. I am sure you had other ways to communicate as I did back in the 80's. Send us all a letter instead or as NBP suggests walk closer


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## nbp (Jan 4, 2021)

A huge segment of the world population still doesn’t have any of those things, so, yeah, they really are luxuries not life sustaining “needs”. You’d be out of place in a developed country without them but you wouldn’t die. All of these things make life easier but we could live with a lot less.


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## peter yetman (Jan 4, 2021)

Well said.
P


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## mickb (Jan 4, 2021)

nbp said:


> A huge segment of the world population still doesn’t have any of those things, so, yeah, they really are luxuries not life sustaining “needs”. You’d be out of place in a developed country without them but you wouldn’t die. All of these things make life easier but we could live with a lot less.


 
True, but point was he probably accepts that tech for convenience, but gets exasperated at those who use new lumen tech. As to needs, well it depends what index you read. I worked for the UN in the 3rd world and the complete list adds sense of belonging, esteem, freedom, religion, self actualisation, even time for fun as 'needed' for 'quality of life'. Also what works in Environment A does not necessarily apply to Environment B. Someone using a lantern to check his farm in remote Chad( or the year 1730) isnt competing with businesses using high powered lights, tractors, computers for email, and deodorant to attact mates in America 2020.


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## nbp (Jan 4, 2021)

Fair point. And I didn’t mean to imply it’s WRONG to use a super powerful light. I think we all like playing with them. Just that in general most of us, In the spirit of the thread, could probably do what we need to do with a lot less lumens than we currently use.


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## bykfixer (Jan 4, 2021)

Bring on the Archi-graph. 

I think with the question being 'how many do you realsy need' it can be answered one way. Now ask how many I typically use and a different answer will result. Ask how many I want and get a third way of responding. 

But some may _need _142,295 lumens. Some may not.


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## peter yetman (Jan 4, 2021)

Your wish.....






Is my command.
P


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## Lumen83 (Jan 4, 2021)

We may be overthinking this...But that is what we do lol. Maybe there is a blurry line between need and want. Maybe the question is better phrased "How many lumens do you find adequate for your particular application/use case". I think most of us can come up with some kind subjective of answer based on that.

For example, when I am outdoors at night is when I can utilize the high end of lumens that suit me. However, I live and play in a heavily wooded area. For the most part, anything over 500 lumens is going to be more of a hinderance to me. I'd rather preserve my night adapted vision with a lower lumen light that is going to be percieved as more tolerable to the eye, and more useful to the eye. So, when I state that 500 lumens is the most I need, I mean to say that I personally don't have applications for anything greater than that. And I certainly do not want more than that. There is no confusion between want and need at this point. The answer to both is no. I want and I need less than 500 lumens.


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## nbp (Jan 4, 2021)

It’s the nature of being an enthusiast. On knife forums you see the exact same discussion over magic new super steels vs. tried and true carbon steels or older stainless steels. I imagine every hobbyist forum is the same. Haha


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## Lumen83 (Jan 4, 2021)

nbp said:


> It’s the nature of being an enthusiast. On knife forums you see the exact same discussion over magic new super steels vs. tried and true carbon steels or older stainless steels. I imagine every hobbyist forum is the same. Haha



And this is why I have zero money in my savings account.... Got lots of neat gadgets though.


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## GaryF (Jan 4, 2021)

Most of my usage is 3 lumens or below, but I do appreciate having ~300+ lumens available for when things go bump in the night. 

My bigger challenge is generally finding lights with a low enough low. For example, a camping lantern that doesn’t have a low of 1 lumen or less is not very useful to me, no matter how bright the higher settings are.


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## id30209 (Jan 4, 2021)

700lumens are my need in 90% cases.


Sent from Tapatalk


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## wweiss (Jan 4, 2021)

GaryF said:


> Most of my usage is 3 lumens or below, but I do appreciate having ~300+ lumens available for when things go bump in the night.
> 
> My bigger challenge is generally finding lights with a low enough low. For example, a camping lantern that doesn’t have a low of 1 lumen or less is not very useful to me, no matter how bright the higher settings are.



Agreed about the camping light. Even one Lumen in a dark tent can be way too much for reading a map, adjusting gear etc. The .02L of HDS is more than fine - but with their SDR50 model, even that can be too bright.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jan 4, 2021)




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## idleprocess (Jan 4, 2021)

Lumen83 said:


> Maybe the question is better phrased "How many lumens do you find adequate for your particular application/use case". I think most of us can come up with some kind subjective of answer based on that.



The _economist's_ definition of "need" is closer to the lay definition of "want", with the caveat that the consumer is willing to pay for it. CPF being an enthusiast site as nbp has pointed out above, the average forum member's needs - in economist's sense - are apt to be well ahead of actual need. Reality is that the most common use of a flashlight by far is for short-range area illumination within a couple of meters - navigating an environment, inserting keys into a doorknob, performing a task, etc. There are certainly use cases for greater output and greater throw - sufficient to justify their inclusion in many a flashlight - but the enthusiast's demands tend to be exceed the requirements of many use cases _because fun_.


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## bykfixer (Jan 4, 2021)

Oops, new page. 
Was responding to the post about the empty saving but all those neat gadgets……

You _need _​every single one too, can I get a woohoo?


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## Sambob (Jan 4, 2021)

Stress_Test said:


> [ note, original text highlighted red by me ]
> 
> See, after coming back to CPF just a few months ago, after a long absence (2012? 2014?), this is the kind of stuff that blows my mind and makes me crack up! :laughing:
> 
> ...




Sadly I have to agree want Is what It's all about here and that's not a bad thing...at least not until you have to explain to the wife "why" you bought a $600 flashlight that can start an oak tree on fire from 20 yards away and be seen from space.

Ask me how I know.:shakehead


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## Lumen83 (Jan 4, 2021)

idleprocess said:


> but the enthusiast's demands tend to be exceed the requirements of many use cases _because fun_.



Fun is a good time. I'll give you that. There is a side of us that enjoys the wow factor. I've got one or two of those, too. Its just that I am ignoring that concept for the sake of this discussion. Because I am interpreting this to be more a question of utility. Not necessarily for those nights we go out on the back deck and aim the pocket stadium light into the abyess and turn the sun back on. More for what my needs are for general tasks where I am not focused on the hobby, just focused on the task at hand and using the light as a tool. I'm not saying everyone should interpret the question of "need" or "want" the way I am. Because the next person's use case may really be to turn the night into day when they are doing what they are doing, even if just for fun. I'm simply interpreting the question less from a hobbyist's standpoint. And more from the standpoint of your average Joe who may or may not be a flashlight enthusiast.


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## idleprocess (Jan 4, 2021)

Lumen83 said:


> Because I am interpreting this to be more a question of utility. [...] More for what my needs are for general tasks where I am not focused on the hobby, just focused on the task at hand and using the light as a tool.



Dog-walking is the task I find myself using a flashlight for most often, serving two primary tasks: locating the mutts' _leavings_ and pointing at the ground when I'm crossing roads so that any motorist who happens by while I'm in the middle of the road can more easily spot me. The default level on my (non-Abduril) D4s is quite sufficient for both tasks - I'm guessing 150 lumens at the top of the regulated range prior to the blink indicating the switch to the FET driver. This same level of output more than suffices for other routine close-range tasks like lighting up a work area, accessing my storage shed at night, etc. I appreciate the ability of the D4 to produce markedly more light on demand, however I do not often need it and physics being what it is such bursts are just that.


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## seery (Jan 4, 2021)

nbp said:


> People who say they have to check a huge property, well, yeah, people did that for centuries with a torch or candle by walking around. If you want to stand in one place and do it, sure then you need 500k cd or whatever to accomplish the task.
> 
> You could do it with a lot less if you got closer to the thing you want to see.
> 
> ...but realistically I really only NEED about 300 lms on any given day.


Please be honest and explain why you NEED 300 lumens when you could just get closer to what it is you’re trying to illuminate? Sounds like 300 lumens is more a luxury than a need???

We walk and check 1.25 miles of fence line [plus pastures and turnouts] twice a night with two Acebeam X70’s. 

Spending 10x longer doing it with a few hundred lumens or a pencil thrower and we might as well be walking around with candles.


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## nbp (Jan 4, 2021)

Sure, I guess I could survive with 100 lms if needed. So an honest question: what did you do 15 years ago when the XR-E putting out 200 lms was the best we had?


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## Lumen83 (Jan 4, 2021)

seery said:


> Please be honest and explain why you NEED 300 lumens when you could just get closer to what it is you’re trying to illuminate?



I can only speak for myself. And I am in the camp that says I don't need a lot of lumens, if you read my earlier posts in this thread. But I will say that the 500 I "needed" this summer to illuminate the noise in my back yard which turned out to be a black bear in the process of dragging one of my trash barrels into the woods with him, came in pretty handy. A lot more handy than getting closer to what it is I was trying to illuminate. Sometimes being able to illuminate something at a distance is a good bet, prior to going out and investigating up and close.


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## Lumen83 (Jan 4, 2021)

nbp said:


> So an honest question: what did you do 15 years ago when the XR-E putting out 200 lms was the best we had?



Well, by my logic we would have been eaten by bears lol. So, clearly I'm wrong. Since we are all here to talk about this. I still maintain that I need very little for almost everything. My 6P incan is probably 40-50 lumens and is my most used light. I can use it for almost everything. But, mashing the 2 stage gas pedal tail cap on that EDCL1-T to throw some 500 lumens into the back yard before walking out there fat, dumb, and happy to investigate what turned out to be a hungry black bear, came in pretty handy. Not the first time I've illuminated wildlife with bigger teeth than me though. And to be honest, the closest call I had was at around 50 yards with a 50 lumen beam and it did the job more than well enough. So, maybe that means the 500 isn't quite needed afterall?


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## bigburly912 (Jan 4, 2021)

Those of us that eat the bears need no lumens........... : D

Lord have mercy people enjoy whatever you use/need/want


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## nbp (Jan 4, 2021)

LOL. I’m think I am not chasing down a bear regardless of how far away I can identify him from unless he’s eating a family member. I’ll get the trash can in the morning when he’s done with it.


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## seery (Jan 4, 2021)

nbp said:


> Sure, I guess I could survive with 100 lms if needed. So an honest question: what did you do 15 years ago when the XR-E putting out 200 lms was the best we had?



15 years ago we were using Surefire M6’s. 

13 years and 2 months ago we bought a 2000 lumen Surefire BEAST II and added a second after seeing how easy it made life. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?108506-NEW-from-SUREFIRE-THE-BEAST-II&p=2225328&viewfull=1#post2225328

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?211335-Surefire-Beast-II-An-Intimate-PICtorial-(dial-up-heavy)


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## idleprocess (Jan 4, 2021)

seery said:


> 15 years ago we were using Surefire M6’s.
> 
> 13 years and 2 months ago we bought a 2000 lumen Surefire BEAST II and added a second after seeing how easy it made life.
> 
> ...



Handier than the lead-acid halogen/HID spotlights I was imagining, if not pricier to operate.


----------



## Lumen83 (Jan 4, 2021)

nbp said:


> I’ll get the trash can in the morning when he’s done with it.



They're very picky eaters it turns out. And therefore they leave a terrible mess. In fairness, I thought it was a racoon or something. It really didn't occur to me that it was a bear. I was on the porch when I heard the noise, so I went running off yelling at it trying to scare whatever it was away, and I round the corner of my house and shine the light and sure enough it was a big old black bear. Needless to say I stopped right there. But the bear bolted. Was more afraid of me. Black bears around here are really skiddish and not aggressive. Either way, glad to illuminate such a creatures at a distance rather than get any closer.


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## nbp (Jan 4, 2021)

bigburly912 said:


> Those of us that eat the bears need no lumens........... : D
> 
> Lord have mercy people enjoy whatever you use/need/want



Yeah it’s all good. I was imagining this was like a “come to Jesus” kind of thread where most of us would say we have all these lumens but only really need a few, but that might actually only be the case for some of us. The rest of you can leave the old dim lights behind for us to play with.


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## gruntmedik1 (Jan 4, 2021)

Lumens are like horsepower.

You can get by with 1, but 100 is more convenient. 400 is interesting, and 1000+ can be a handful.

When I hear people say you don't "need" something, I assume (yes, I know...) that they are the same kind to point fingers but ignore the other 3 pointing back at them.


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## xxo (Jan 4, 2021)

I think a lot of people who "need" more lumens, really need more throw, not lumens.


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## bigburly912 (Jan 4, 2021)

As I said in another thread. My wife who knows nothing about flashlights took apart my old lighthouse brand 2D and bought me a ML300lx (because it was a 2D). She felt sorry for me for using that old dim flashlight more than any of my others. Haha


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## Stress_Test (Jan 4, 2021)

mickb said:


> Cars werent possible once upon a time either, neither were GPS, washing machines, vacuum cleaners and psychologists. Arguments of need versus convenience vs modern acceptance vs recreational luixury will always devolve into nonsense semantics.
> 
> No more replies by computer either thanks, its recreational luxury, not a need. I am sure you had other ways to communicate as I did back in the 80's. Send us all a letter instead _*or as NBP suggests walk closer *_



You're pretty far away. You might get tired of waiting for me to walk there, so here's an appropriate song you can listen to while you wait 

The Proclaimers - 500 Miles (youtube)


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## Stress_Test (Jan 4, 2021)

nbp said:


> Sure, I guess I could survive with 100 lms if needed. So an honest question: what did you do 15 years ago when the XR-E putting out 200 lms was the best we had?



It was like I said earlier, of course, that we spent all our time bumping into stuff and falling into pits and whatnot


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jan 4, 2021)

seery said:


> Please be honest and explain why you NEED 300 lumens when you could just get closer to what it is you’re trying to illuminate? Sounds like 300 lumens is more a luxury than a need???



Because what I am trying to illuminate might be trying to eat me, shoot me, or run me over. If I can't outrun a bear, a mountain lion, a bullet, or a car, what makes you think I want to have to get close to it to identify the hazard?


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## Stress_Test (Jan 4, 2021)

seery said:


> 15 years ago we were using Surefire M6’s.
> 
> 13 years and 2 months ago we bought a 2000 lumen Surefire BEAST II and added a second after seeing how easy it made life.
> 
> ...




Like the guy in "Dirty Harry" said, "Who's WE, sucka??" :laughing:

An M6 was something like what, $400 when new?

A quick search on the Beast II showed $7000 msrp.

Whether it was 13 or 15 years ago, I couldn't have afforded either one of those things! 



I could NOW, but no way in hell am I paying that kind of money. 

See, I could afford them..... but I don't *NEED *them. 

Guess I'll still be stuck bumping into stuff and falling into pits and getting eaten by trash-can-stealing bears and who knows what calamities.


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## orbital (Jan 4, 2021)

+

Imagine you own a business & you walk out into the yard where your machinery/inventory/life/is..
there are people trying to harm or rip you off.

I want every lumem to stun there ***, PERIOD!

so I can rerack


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## raggie33 (Jan 4, 2021)

i was walking around the woods tonight with 2 lumens . till i saw what u thought was a donkey i hit turbo it was a odd looking deer


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## raggie33 (Jan 4, 2021)

btw i was heart broken when i found out it was not a donkey! i was going to bring him home do they eat pizza?


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## nbp (Jan 4, 2021)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Because what I am trying to illuminate might be trying to eat me, shoot me, or run me over. If I can't outrun a bear, a mountain lion, a bullet, or a car, what makes you think I want to have to get close to it to identify the hazard?



One of my favorite posts ever was from you HoF. I wish I could find it anymore. But I think it was:
“If you don't use a flashlight, you'll probably fall off a cliff, get hurt, or die.” 

Has made me chuckle for years.


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## Stress_Test (Jan 4, 2021)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Imagine you own a business & you walk out into the yard where your machinery/inventory/life/is..
> there are people trying to harm or rip you off.
> ...



On a serious note, I'd be very leery of an ultra-high lumen light for defensive firearm use. You don't want to blind yourself as well as whoever you're lighting up. Presumably, for a shotgun or other long-gun, we're talking weapon lights.

It may be fine if you're aiming at someone/thing outside in your big acreage front yard, but what if you had to use that same weapon inside the house (or business)?

If it were me, I'd make a few trial runs to make sure my light isn't going to be a hindrance instead of an asset. Waking up, grabbing a firearm, and hitting the switch on a 5000 lumen light? Ouch. I know for myself at least I wouldn't be able to see what to shoot at (or not) since I'd be squinting so badly from that level of light output.

But hey I'm just some guy so don't follow my advice on serious stuff like this. :shrug:

There are some training centers out there that probably cover these sorts of things (which names I've completely forgotten at the moment  )


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jan 4, 2021)

nbp said:


> One of my favorite posts ever was from you HoF. I wish I could find it anymore. But I think it was:
> “If you don't use a flashlight, you'll probably fall off a cliff, get hurt, or die.”
> 
> Has made me chuckle for years.



I remember that. It was referring to a Mt. Whitney hike. Near the top, there is an area with what are called windows. The trail is a 6-10 foot wide path of rocks piled up to make a somewhat flat trail between the pinnacles. The trail itself is a trip hazard, you have constant 60 mph winds pushing you to the side, and between the pinnacles in these windows you have a vertical drop of 3,000-4,000 feet on each side. Go through that section at night without a flashlight, and you likely will die.


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## greenpondmike (Jan 5, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> i was walking around the woods tonight with 2 lumens . till i saw what u thought was a donkey i hit turbo it was a odd looking deer



Please be careful around odd looking deer.


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## greenpondmike (Jan 5, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> btw i was heart broken when i found out it was not a donkey! i was going to bring him home do they eat pizza?



Maybe the end crust after you eat the rest.


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## greenpondmike (Jan 5, 2021)

I think candlepower is more important than lumens, but it just depends on what you need your light for. 9-30 lumens fits most of what I need, but sometimes a ML50 on high can be real handy.


----------



## AstroTurf (Jan 5, 2021)

greater than the daylight i battle with...


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## bykfixer (Jan 5, 2021)

xxo said:


> I think a lot of people who "need" more lumens, really need more throw, not lumens.



Old school thinking. :candle:

When I shine a high output number 3 doors down in humidity to say hello to my neighbor I can see him but can't tell if he is saying hello back or not. Using a high candela, not so high output light I can see he's giving the thumbs up. 

I have a 1.5 lumen 'night lighter' that shines a useable beam the length of my house. It replaced a 6 lumen flooder, which is great for seeing 8 feet in front of me when goose stepping through a dark house. Furniture avoidence technique means less busted toes. But if that bump in the night is an unwelcome guest I'd like to know from as far a distance as practical. More time for a groggy reaction. 

Now if I'm trying to ceiling bounce a proper amount of light for a couple of people to see by during a blackout more flood works better. Therefore more lumens is required. So it really boils down to what you are using the lighting tool for. 

And old deer got old by not eating pizza. Rigatoni works better.


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## Lumen83 (Jan 5, 2021)

Stress_Test said:


> If it were me, I'd make a few trial runs to make sure my light isn't going to be a hindrance instead of an asset.



Very good advice. If the application is within the home, particularly, a lot of people make the mistake of buying the latest and greatest Millitary/LE weaponlights. Which are amazing tools, for sure. But there is a difference in application between someone jumping out of a swat truck or squad car all amped up on adrenaline and without night adapted vision, and a homeowner waking up with fully night adapted vision in a pitch black house. My tip would be to find older models of the current lineups. 1-500 lumen Surefire, Streamlight, etc. weaponlights can be found in the same model that now boosts 1000 lumens. And the older ones are going to be less expensive too.


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## orbital (Jan 5, 2021)

+

Having the right tool for the job.



&

*Having the right tool for the job.



..both are needed
*


----------



## mickb (Jan 5, 2021)

nbp said:


> Sure, I guess I could survive with 100 lms if needed. So an honest question: what did you do 15 years ago when the XR-E putting out 200 lms was the best we had?


 

id say similar to what we did before ED glass in spotting scopes or 50x optical zooms in cameras. You enjoyed closer ranges, accepted blurrier images or the fact you didnt have the time to see everything you wanted. Life went on, when the improvements came out, you grabbed them. I remember specifically for hunting in the day, the go-to was much heavier lights, like vehicle spotlight setups as handhelds and car batteries in a backpack or on the ATV. 

I tend to agree light tech went too crazy though. For me I dont care what people get into until it starts effecting choices . The more lumens and UI and gimmicks got out of control, the more research you have to do to find a 'sensible light' or older specs. I miss so many light models like Fenix E01 and HL23 and Nitecore EC4GT which are either out of production or replaced with models with multiple x more lumens I dont need.


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## mickb (Jan 5, 2021)

peter yetman said:


> Your wish.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thats clever


----------



## idleprocess (Jan 5, 2021)

mickb said:


> I tend to agree light tech went too crazy though. For me I dont care what people get into until it starts effecting choices . The more lumens and UI and gimmicks got out of control, the more research you have to do to find a 'sensible light' or older specs. I miss so many light models like Fenix E01 and HL23 and Nitecore EC4GT which are either out of production or replaced with models with multiple x more lumens I dont need.



The market is going to do whatever _moves product_ in volume. If that means a new model making 5000 peak lumens out of an 18650 sized host sells like hotcakes while sales of a similar 18650 topping out at 500 lumens then fall off a cliff, the latter is destined to be discontinued. If the 5000 lumen model has a reasonable UI and acceptable low modes - where it's going to spend most of its runtime anyway - then best learn to love it.

Of note - many of these performance bumps _don't cost anything_ once they're past the bleeding edge. Take 4K _(read: 2160)_ televisions - initially they were priced at a stupid premium over comparable 1080 models, but now several years on there are pretty much only 4K TVs and they're priced about the same that comparable 1080 TVs went for.

Most of these gains are because the technology has gotten better. I did a maglite mod some ~15 years ago that pushed a trio of Luexon IIIs to the tune of 3.6W each _(10.8W total)_ to produce something like 300 lumens or ~28 lumens per watt. That same 10.8W now at 120 lumens/watt could spit out just shy of 1300 lumens, _likely at a lower *absolute* - not adjusted for inflation - price_. I dusted off said maglite about a year ago and still use it occasionally despite the lumens/cm³ density being terrible by modern standards.


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## peter yetman (Jan 5, 2021)

mickb said:


> Thats clever


Not mine, it belongs to our friend Archimedes. But I can't resist blowing the dust off sometimes.
P


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## mickb (Jan 5, 2021)

idleprocess said:


> The market is going to do whatever _moves product_ in volume. If that means a new model making 5000 peak lumens out of an 18650 sized host sells like hotcakes while sales of a similar 18650 topping out at 500 lumens then fall off a cliff, the latter is destined to be discontinued. If the 5000 lumen model has a reasonable UI and acceptable low modes - where it's going to spend most of its runtime anyway - then best learn to love it.



Thats basic market economics, no one debates it. However it doesnt mean the market is smart or useful to me. A market can be driven by good ideas, bad ideas, fear or sheer lunacy. I dont care how many lunatics want a 5000 lumen light , I'm not interested in all the modes, large gaps, or complex programming to get around it. As mentioned I research older spec models or have lights modded to suit my requirements. But I do like complaining about markets you got me there


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## idleprocess (Jan 5, 2021)

mickb said:


> Thats basic market economics, no one debates it. However it doesnt mean the market is smart or useful to me. A market can be driven by good ideas, bad ideas, fear or sheer lunacy. I dont care how many lunatics want a 5000 lumen light , I'm not interested in all the modes, large gaps, or complex programming to get around it. As mentioned I research older spec models or have lights modded to suit my requirements. But I do like complaining about markets you got me there



I agree - the markets don't serve everyone to the degree that we'd like, such is the reality of manufacturers only able to make so many models and retailers only able to stock so many SKUs. The much-celebrated era of 'mass customization' almost exclusively centers on the likes of software tweaks, different colored skins/covers/trims, and swap-able modules - all of these ideally able to be performed as close to the point of sale as possible. In the case of microprocessor-controlled lights it seems like firmware - or at least a configuration file for UI, thermal protection, battery life management - ought be easily changed, however this is not something I've seen done in a _production_ light.

Personally I miss everyone else subsidizing my previous desktop PC building hobby - I used to build a new machine every few years until around 2009. Alas, the markets have chosen laptops and tablets - costing considerably more for less _computing_ utility than desktop machines - in exchange for sleekness and portability; a large percentage of laptops end up being stationary. I blame almost 20 years of TV commercials showing consumers deliriously shopping for insurance in their living rooms on a laptop.


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## Scotty321 (Jan 13, 2021)

For _my uses_ _and preferences_ in _pocketable lights_:

Average "path light" or "seeing something a little better" light I usually use the 16 lumen "medium" setting on my 14500 Clicky (0.7" head dia; floody). I'll use the 405 lumen "turbo" mode for quick identification of surroundings when outside, and the high mode (232 lum) when searching for something outside in the dark within 25 yards.

High lumen applications (populated and well lit city-suburban environment): a 300-500 lumen flood light (like a COB) works great for me when working/repairing something up close or something in the shadows with a streetlight nearby. 700-1000 lumens flood light works well for identifying or working on things up to 15 yards away (from light source). 300-400 lumens works fine for me in a spot light (tight hotspot) for identification out to 50 yards. 600-700 lumens out to 100 depending on how tight the beam is. 800+ lumens for spot lights past 100 yards (tight hot spot)... but usually these have heads that are starting to get too big for pockets.

My issue is finding a good combination beam that works well for my needs. I've been pretty satisfied with popular offerings from SF, Streamlight, Nitecore, Eagletac, and Fenix for combination beams with ~1" bezels (haven't tried other brands). I like the floodier lights for my personal needs, but it can work against me in certain environments, e.g. when I'm trying to identify something over 25+ yards away but I'm surrounded by close equipment, brush, or fog, which reflect spill and affect my night vision.


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## CanAm (Jan 17, 2021)

My brightest is +/- 525, and to be honest I can't imagine really ever needing more. Maybe 600-700 in a very floody light, though I have 1000 lumen mains power work light that is frequently TOO BRIGHT, despite being full-flood. 

I do like having various levels of power though. 500 is good to have in your back pocket, but for around-the-house or work use usually something in the 20-200 range is much more appropriate. My most-used light is 140 on high and about 40 on low and I find that's good for most of my uses. 

Run time is a much bigger concern, I'd take a long-running 200 over a short-running 500 in most situations. Dead batteries are a pain at best and dangerous at worst.

CRI is also very important - I don't care how bright it is if it's 6600K and purple.


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## Megalamuffin (Jan 21, 2021)

Around 500 lumens with a good flood is about the most I need. I work in construction and use a light every day and it’s nice to have something fairly bright but not eye scorching.


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## parang (Jan 22, 2021)

100 lumens for EDC, 1000 for a thrower, and 3000 or more for a nice CRI flood light used for photography and videography.


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## Tasky (Jan 22, 2021)

Stress_Test said:


> People are saying they NEED thousands of lumens! For what?!?! Are you lighting a football game singlehandedly on a cloudy moonless night?!
> This is probably just an old-man rant, but _momma mia_. It's nuts to read people talking like they NEED a 1000+ lumen light for their normal EDC usage! Sheesh!


Depends what your every day is like. 
I move around the house, so will want 1 lumen or less. 
I work inside PCs and engines, so will want 15-30 lumens. 
I work inside man-entry pipes, so will want 200 lumens of throw. 

However, I walk the dogs in big empty fields, at night when there is no-one else around so they can run free off lead, so will want 1000 lumens or more in order to spot one black dog and another very well camouflaged brown one, as collar lights aren't 360º or bright enough beyond 30yds... especially around crops, tall grass and shrubs. At that point, it _*is *_pretty much like lighting a football game singlehandedly!

I also live in the UK, so we can't carry weapons... but a blindingly bright torch isn't a weapon, and given that most people know I carry it every day, I could quite easily argue it's not specifically intended for use as a weapon. 

So to that end, I need one torch with different levels for different situations.
I've needed 1000+ lumens most often when lighting situations up for _other _people, be that finding something dropped, or lighting an accident scene for the ambulance crews and Police. 



nbp said:


> People who say they have to check a huge property, well, yeah, people did that for centuries with a torch or candle by walking around.


And it was far easier to sneak past their guards back then! 



xxo said:


> I think a lot of people who "need" more lumens, really need more throw, not lumens.


Depends. 
A reasonably decent hot spot with some throw on it is good for keeping an eye on the above-mentioned dogs, but first finding them in the periphery of that spot requires a decent flood. 
I generally prefer more of a flood, myself, so the more lumens being pumped out in that 120-150º arc, the better. I have a 1600 lumen TK11 which is an awesome tool... but totally useless on a foggy night, and even small amounts of moisture/dust/pollen/whatever in the air just results in this BEAM of throw that does more to block my view of what I'm spotting than it does to actually illuminate it. Under those conditions, it's like trying to light your way with a Lightsaber!


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## LeanBurn (Jan 22, 2021)

I am closing on a week of using just a Fenix E01 as a part of a challenge. For the most part sub 10L has been more than enough for any tasks around the house, yard. Just my rural walks have been lacking :candle:


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## idleprocess (Jan 22, 2021)

nbp said:


> Sure, I guess I could survive with 100 lms if needed. So an honest question: what did you do 15 years ago when the XR-E putting out 200 lms was the best we had?



Tangential, but the first XR-E flashlight I obtained - and possibly the first XR-E flashlight ever - was from a short run Sandwich Shoppe Aleph A19 1x123A. Suddenly in the palm of my hand I had capabilities that used to take multiple Luxeon IIIs and their associated bulk. It was truly a herald of what we have today in 1x 18650 lights. Nowadays, a slightly smaller D4 running an 18650 can produce some 20x the lumens, _but that A19 still seems bright_.


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## dmattaponi (Jan 22, 2021)

EDC - variable between moonlight (sub lumen) up through 150-200 lumens.

Outdoor activities in rural setting - variable light with up to approximately 1000 lumens with some throw.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## JimIslander (Jan 22, 2021)

Last night camping on a remote sea island? 0.1 - 3800. Used for night light, around camp, oyster bank spotting. etc. Needed two lights to do this, my Lumintop GTvn Mini and a Manker.


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## sonofjesse (Sep 3, 2021)

Yea I think the lumens has turned into HP ratings, and people want these huge ratings, even though some are so wrong on the actually output. Unless you do search and rescue or leave out in the "woods", you don't really need crazy amounts of lumens. I usually use 50 lumens outside to most tasks at night. 

Now if your more in the country camping its nice to have 1000 lumens with some throw.

We are spoiled with how good these lights are for the money I think. It has come a long ways since I first started playing with lights as a kid.


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## 3_gun (Sep 3, 2021)

Really 100L is enough for most jobs and seldom do I need more than 400L but today 1000L came up short, doesn't happen often. Didn't expect to need more than my EDC for the time of day & sale type I was going to. Two out buildings proved me wrong. !000L worked .. barely but slowed me down. I'll try not to make that mistake again. Of course I was in much better shape than everyone else who just walked up to the door(s) with their cellphone out & walked away.


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## Stress_Test (Sep 3, 2021)

Paradoxically, the last time I needed more output (couple months back) was when it was broad daylight in a lighted building. I walked into an empty dark conference room and couldn't find the light switch, and my Quark at 100+ lumens on high didn't seem very bright, since I came from a bright hallway with windows. 

I mean it's not like it didn't WORK or anything, the output just seemed puny.


----------



## richbuff (Sep 3, 2021)

3_gun said:


> Change you can believe in .. pre1965 US silver coins


Lots and lots and lots of lumens and pre-1933 US gold coins:


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## 3_gun (Sep 4, 2021)

richbuff said:


> Lots and lots and lots of lumens and pre-1933 US gold coins:
> View attachment 16080


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## fuyume (Sep 4, 2021)

My Fenix E12 v2.0 is advertised as having modes of 5, 30, and 160 lumens. I find that 5 lumens is a good low utility brightness for most things where I just need to be able to see where to put my foot at night. I've used my E12 a couple of times this past week while riding my bicycle to the grocery store at night, and I will say that for a bicycle headlight, the 160 lumen mode is about the minimum I'd feel comfortable using at anything more than a slow speed, but I avoid using it, since it eats battery power quickly.

Fortunately for me, I pedal very slowly, since I'm actually partially disabled and can barely pedal on the flat in low gear, so the 30 lumen mode works well enough. 30 lumens is fine for walking outdoors at night, but 60 would really be better if I were on unfamiliar ground.

The E12 replaced my Inova X1 as my EDC light and the X1 is advertised as producing 80 lumens and 11 lumens. I found the 80 lumen mode more than enough walking at night in the woods, and the 11 lumen mode more than enough walking around my house at night, to the point where I actually cup in in my hand to prevent from losing too much night vision.

Before that, I carried a Leatherman Serac S3, with 7/43/100 lumen modes, and as you can imagine, the 7 lumen mode was fine for most things, the 43 was fine out walking at night, and the 100 lumen mode worked when I needed to see something pretty far away.

I'm planning on getting a Fenix PD36 TAC to double as a bicycle headlight and occasional use "tactical" flashlight. It has modes of 30 (Eco), 150 (Low), and 350 (Med) lumens. I will ignore the High and Turbo modes, since those do not have flat brightness/discharge curves. The 30 lumen mode can be used the same as the 30 lumen mode on my E12, the 150 lumen mode will be great for slow riding, and the 350 lumen mode should be great for faster riding, if I actually get the electric bicycle I want.

Somewhere around here, I have a Bushnell 20154 that I think was rated at 270 lumens? 300? If you look up that product number you will see ratings of 325/39 lumens, but I'm not sure that the one I have wasn't an earlier generation of that model. I always forget. I never use the thing, anymore, and when I did use it, I mainly used its low power mode. In any case, the low power mode, whether it was 25 lumens or 39, was more than enough for a medium duty utility flashlight.


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## paulr (Sep 4, 2021)

Back in the day, 500 lumens was a car headlamp or low end HID lantern, 2100 lumens was a PAR36 aircraft landing light, and 200+ in a handheld flashlight was OMG. Nowadays I have a 1x18650 with 100/300/1000 but it heats up quickly at 1000 and I almost never use it at that setting. 100 is usually plenty. There are similar size lights with 3000+ now and I don't feel like I can use it.

For just getting around a dark room, Arc AAA at 3 lumen was plenty. It displaced the CMG Infinity at 1 lumen which was usable though people wanted more. By now we should be done with lumen wars.


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## fuyume (Sep 5, 2021)

I found the old Mini Mag-Lite that was kicking around my house, because I was thinking about getting a Nite-Ize LED upgrade for it. I used to have one, but I think I left it at a friend’s house or in her car in California in 2013 after going to a music festival, there.

I looked up the brightness of a Mini Mag-Lite, and they are 14 lumens with a runtime of 5 h 15 m. The Nite-Ize upgrade takes that to 30 lumens and 25 h. Quite a huge difference!

I just took advantage of Fenix’ Labor Day sale and ordered myself a PD36 TAC and ALB-10 bike mount. Hopefully, it will be here by the end of the week. In order to save money, I didn’t order a spare battery, but when Fenix eventually ships their new USB-C charger, I plan to get at least one spare battery and the charger.

I think I still want to get an E20 v2.0 for the house, though I probably really don’t need it, especially if I get that Nite-Ize upgrade for the Mini Mag-Lite. The PD36 TAC will primarily be used as a bicycle headlight, but when I am not on the bike, it will live in my handbag, and my handbag sits next to my bed at home, so the PD36 TAC will always be on hand, as will my E12 v2.0, since that is also always in my handbag, if it isn’t in my hand.

The PD36 TAC’s Eco mode of 30 lumens is the same as the Nite-Ize LED upgrade.


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## paulr (Sep 5, 2021)

fuyume said:


> I looked up the brightness of a Mini Mag-Lite, and they are 14 lumens with a runtime of 5 h 15 m.


The stock minimag might reach 14lm with brand new batteries, but it dims quickly and is more like 5 lumens over most of the run. I'm sure someone has done graphs. At 5h or even 3h it is pretty dead. The thing about incandescents is as they dim, the color shifts towards orange and the light gets less and less useful. LEDs stay the same color (pretty much) and so they give usable illumunation even at super low levels.


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## Jean-Luc Descarte (Sep 5, 2021)

paulr said:


> The stock minimag might reach 14lm with brand new batteries, but it dims quickly and is more like 5 lumens over most of the run. I'm sure someone has done graphs. At 5h or even 3h it is pretty dead. [SNIP]


It's worth noting that the 2xAAA LED version has the exact same behavior. The output isn't regulated at all.


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## xxo (Sep 5, 2021)

Jean-Luc Descarte said:


> It's worth noting that the 2xAAA LED version has the exact same behavior. The output isn't regulated at all.


It's regulated, it just has a timed step down to around 50% after the first half hour.


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## Spin (Sep 5, 2021)

nbp said:


> LOL. I’m think I am not chasing down a bear regardless of how far away I can identify him from unless he’s eating a family member. I’ll get the trash can in the morning when he’s done with it.


I only want to observe the bear devouring my ex-gf/wife who threw away most of my lights. She kindly fed the bear & in return received a nice warm winter coat. :>)


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## fuyume (Sep 6, 2021)

paulr said:


> The stock minimag might reach 14lm with brand new batteries, but it dims quickly and is more like 5 lumens over most of the run. I'm sure someone has done graphs. At 5h or even 3h it is pretty dead. The thing about incandescents is as they dim, the color shifts towards orange and the light gets less and less useful. LEDs stay the same color (pretty much) and so they give usable illumunation even at super low levels.


Having owned and used incandescent Mini Mag-Lites for over 30 years, I’m more than well aware of their limitations. I only looked it up as a point of comparison to the Nite-Ize LED upgrade for it.


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## Bicycleflyer (Sep 6, 2021)

Short answer… 5 lms or less in low mode and about 200 in high. 


I’m a pilot who has flown a lot of aircraft types. From general aviation cessnas to the 747. I’ve owned a number of lights. In the early days (pre LED) the FAA mandated 2 D-cell flashlights for FAR 135 and 121 operations. I used one of those bent neck military flashlights. I think it may have put out 20 lms at best. But it worked quite well for over 10 years. I used that all the way up to the 727. As LED flashlights came out I fell in love with the multi level outputs. I have discovered I like 5 lms or less in the cockpit and about 200 for the exterior inspection. That worked even on the 747. I DO NOT want flashing modes of any kind. I’ve owned several nice flashlights since then. Presently I carry a flashlight capable of 1000 lms, but I still find the 200 lms mode works quite well. I only use the 1000 lms mode to show off or light up deer on the other side of the runway. 

Yea, I got windy.. Sorry.


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## 3_gun (Sep 6, 2021)

Been thinking about this and it needs a more nuanced answer. 

First you need a blackout dark house & a candle. Light the candle, walk around, set it in one place & LOOK around, move it & repeat. Notice the colors & details you can see & at what distance? Take your time. Try reading, have a cup of something. Many/most of us have never really used candlelight for lighting so it's hard to have a common baseline. (my hillbilly grandparents didn't get electric lights until 1980) Mathematically 1 lumen = 12.57 candlepower or 1 candlepower = 0.079 lumen. More to the problem, candles range from about 5 to 15 lumens depending on size, fuel and wick. Plus one candle doesn't equal one candlepower. But that doesn't really matter since our eyes aren't machines but our cameras are. Take a picture, lock in the auto setting as a memory manual setting. Now you can take the same picture using your flashlight on different settings. Do direct beam shots & bounce shots to see how they compare to the baseline. Now you have real world candle power to lumens w/o the math.

I know I *NEED* about 5L to see detail AND colors in 4000-4500K direct beam & 15L in bounce light. One lumen is enough to read by if the light is direct, 10L minimum for bounced light. Half a lumen is enough to keep me from tripping over my own feet. 500L lights the room to about a 60w bulb, 1000L like a 75w bulb, 3000L=daylight. (room 10x12, hard wood floor, painted {lighter matte shades} ceiling & walls) 

Testing is a big reason my new EDC light has a 10L low & 1100L high & runs a 18650 instead of an AA battery & is much more a flood than throw light. Add in I can start in low / memory or high = . It's not perfect but it's so much closer than the light it replaced BUT it's an EDC light; limited in reach & runtime. I have in one day drained the freshly charged battery with mid range light use that I didn't have the two upper light levels available anymore. So now I'm looking at 21700/26650 lights, not as EDC but more general purpose.

So how many lumens do I need? Not less than 1 to read and not more (so far) than 3000 to play god. In between it all depends on the day. One thing I've NEVER needed?? .. less runtime


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## paulr (Sep 6, 2021)

3_gun said:


> Mathematically 1 lumen = 12.57 candlepower or 1 candlepower = 0.079 lumen.


I think it is the other way around, 1 standard candle = 12.57 lumen. But that is brighter real-life candles are, it seems to me. Anyway, there is no need to mess with candles for this. Just try a low powered led flashlight and see if it suffices. For walking around a completely dark house, 1 lumen is really plenty.


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## Stress_Test (Sep 7, 2021)

In practical use I've found it's heavily dependent on how dark-adapted your eyes are at the moment you need /use a flashlight. 

Just woke up at 3am in a totally dark room? One lumen is plenty to see by.

Just walked into a blacked-out warehouse space from a sunny day outside? A 100 lumen light will make you think "is this thing on??"

Assuming no pressing emergency, we can usually wait a minute for our eyes to adjust to whatever light level we have. 

On that note, I've realized that a cop may have a need for a REALLY bright light if he's in hot pursuit and the bad guy ducks into a dark building from a sunny afternoon. Or maybe you just wait for the K-9 unit to go in after him!


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## chainsolid (Sep 7, 2021)

Utility aroun 1000 Lumens
EDC: 200-500 Lumens


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## Ishango (Sep 7, 2021)

It totally depends on the situation. When camping I rarely need more than 50 - 75 lumens. Late at night a firefly mode can be sufficient for a decent amount of tasks. When I'm alone in the dark and hear an ominous sound I can't place, 35000 lumen is barely sufficient


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## Unicorn (Sep 11, 2021)

It all depends on what I'm doing. Military mission with dark adapted eyes and just need to dig something out of a pack without losing my night vision or alerting any enemy? Maybe 1. 

Walking my dogs and wanting to be able to check what they are sniffing or to make sure there's no glass on the sidewalk? 60 or so.

Security and wanting to light up a building or bush a couple hundred meters away? 600 to a couple thousand... sort of depends on how tight it is and the actual brightness. Lumens isn't a guarantee of brightness just the total output. Remember an old incandescent 40 watt refrigerator bulb was something like 600 or 800 lumens.
Checking the neighbors yard because there are tools still out since she's rebuilding her house after it burned down? Same as above. 

Lighting up the beach in winter when there is cloud cover and it's pitch black? How much can I get? It's a great place to see how bright some of my lights are.


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## Lou Minescence (Sep 12, 2021)

How many lumens do you really need ? None
I like a flashlight or headlamp that has between moonlight and 1,000 lumens. That's what I want. I find that will work for most of my tasks. I will refuse to buy a light that can not go as low as at least 5 lumens or more. EDC style works best for me overall.


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## GadgetGeek (Sep 12, 2021)

I'm fond of the Streamlight Polytac X that I bought for a family member to use when they take the dog out. It came with an 18650 battery. 600 lumens on high for 3.5 hours. I think 600 lumens is a good number and plenty of light for edc.

Edit: Just wish it also had a low 1 lumen output.


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## Splitrail (Sep 12, 2021)

I rarely need a flashlight away from home.
My home light is a Nightcore MH10 S (1, 50, 300, 1050, 1800).
The upper two levels are useful in the forest where I live, the lower three are perfect indoor options for me.


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