# ORC "Locator" run time and Voltages observations



## BVH (Jun 7, 2008)

I decided to log some Locator run time and Voltage figures.

Power supply is:

Cheap Battery Packs (CBP) 4500 Elite 4500 mah cells - 24 cell, welded pack used in LarryK14 spotlight. I didn't completely top off the pack because I didn't want to overvolt the Locator. I don't know what the Voltage limit is so I stopped charging at 35.5 Volts off the Triton2. Pack settled to 34.6 Volts in about 3 minutes.

Start of test: Pack is 34.6 Volts

Light on........32.6 Volts
1 minute.......30.4
2 minutes.....29.7
3 minutes.....29.2
4 minutes.....28.9
5 minutes.....28.6
6 minutes.....28.3
7 minutes.....28.1
8 minutes.....27.9
9 minutes.....27.5

Stop test.
Voltage within 10 seconds after light turned off: 30.0

Added:

Ammeter readings

Initial start......12.5 Starting cycle starts
4 seconds....... 14.3
8 seconds....... 15.2
16 seconds..... 15.5 Starting cycle ends with "click"
1 minute........ 15.8 Stabilized

The pack was getting warm/hot due to heat from just being charged and from load immediately applied. My guess is I could easily run 10 minutes down to 27 Volts which is still being kind to the batteries at 1.12 Volts under load and 1.25 Volts unloaded.

I'd like to find an Ammeter that I could hook in-line or clamp around to give me current flow. Why is it that most of the common VOM's are limited to 10 Amps, one I saw at 20 Amps? Anyone know any good sources? I bought one of those cheap Harbor Freight clamp-on VOM's with "clamp-on" current loop thinking I could read Amps in this type of a scenario but it does nothing. All instructions indicate AC Amps. Nothing about DC. Not being an electrical person per se, is there a difference in measuring AC versus DC Amps? I'm assuming she pulls about 10 to 11 Amps based on 300 Watts divided by 29 Volts = 10.3 Amps. Add to that losses, powering of the electronics, etc. Someone who had one told me it settled at about 14 Amps.


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## JetskiMark (Jun 8, 2008)

A portable battery pack for the Locator. Very nice. It even has decent runtime for the amount of lumens that it is producing.

Now you just have to attach everything to a hard hat and you will have the world's brightest headlamp.


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## BVH (Jun 8, 2008)

Here's some pics of the ballast:






















It's roughly 8.5" tall x 7.25" wide x 6.25" deep.


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## adamlau (Jun 8, 2008)

Amazing  . Any idea how this would compare to the SX-5, SX-16 Nightsun?


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## BVH (Jun 8, 2008)

The 1.6 KW NightSun is in a different league for sure. No real comparison in my opinion.


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## Flashanator (Jun 8, 2008)

BVH, with all ur insane Lights, hard to believe you dont have a NightSun in your sig


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## BVH (Jun 8, 2008)

Everything is relative for me. After having had the VSS-1 and VSS-3a, the NightSun would be a step down. I wonder if a Huey could mount my 60" "gun". I know the Sky Crane could!


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## BlueBeam22 (Jun 8, 2008)

BVH,

Very nice pictures.:twothumbs

Does your Blackhawk Locator's HID put out around 30,000 lumens?
I thought the Spectrolab Nightsun only puts out under 20,000 lumens, so I would think your Locator would blow it away.


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## Flashanator (Jun 8, 2008)

I heard the NightSun is around 60K Lumens???? I have seen it on a Police chopper. I would assume it eats the Locator. But only has 30-40Million CP beam as apose to I think 150 on that MONSTER VSS-3


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## BlueBeam22 (Jun 8, 2008)

I can see how the VSS-3 stomps the nightsun!

From the beamshots I have seen BVH's 60'' eats up the VSS-3 and other advertising searchlights. I don't know if I have ever seen a 60'' carbon-arc's beam in the sky, I wonder how far away it can be seen? Can it light up high cirrus clouds brightly?


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## BVH (Jun 8, 2008)

Blue, when the mirrors were new in the 40's, it is said a person could read a newspaper comfortably at 5.7 miles by their light. I would say they've lost a bit of their distance due to mirror coating deterioration but I'd say they still drive towards 4.5+ miles. The beam, on a good night, can be seen from 25 to 32 miles away - granted somewhat faint at the outer distances.

If you've ever followed a light beam to its source and you traveled more than a half to maybe 1 mile, then you've seen a 60" Carbon Arc. You can't miss it. It's a 6' in diameter giant with an orange flame inside.


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## BlueBeam22 (Jun 8, 2008)

BVH said:


> Blue, when the mirrors were new in the 40's, it is said a person could read a newspaper comfortably at 5.7 miles by their light. I would say they've lost a bit of their distance due to mirror coating deterioration but I'd say they still drive towards 4.5+ miles. The beam, on a good night, can be seen from 25 to 32 miles away - granted somewhat faint at the outer distances.
> 
> If you've ever followed a light beam to its source and you traveled more than a half to maybe 1 mile, then you've seen a 60" Carbon Arc. You can't miss it. It's a 6' in diameter giant with an orange flame inside.


 
I have only seen very powerful spotlights once that I could see from about 10 miles away, but I didn't see them in person.

Your 60'' really is the king of spot/searchlights. I hope to get to see one in the future.


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## BVH (Jun 8, 2008)

Blue, that's almost a Cardinal sin - to see a beam of light from so far a distance and to not follow it to its source! You were mighty brave to admit to this on CPF!


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## BlueBeam22 (Jun 8, 2008)

BVH said:


> Blue, that's almost a Cardinal sin - to see a beam of light from so far a distance and to not follow it to its source! You were mighty brave to admit to this on CPF!


 
HAHAHA! Then I should be banned from CPF for doing that.

But twice I have followed advertising searchlights to their source and compared my 10mcp Thor to them (that was my brightest light at the time) and I couldn't believe how they looked when I stood a few feet away fron them, a solid blue bar of light going out into space as far as the eye can see.
I imagine your 60'' would be many times more powerful than that. I wanted to stick something in front of the advertising searchlights but I was afraid it could burn me, do you know if their beams are very hot? One thing is for sure, your 60'' would burn a hole through a building.:laughing:

Have you always had a battery pack for the Blackhawk or have you had to run it from a direct source in the past?


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## BVH (Jun 8, 2008)

There's not much heat generated by the 60" beam. But I'm told that it contains a lot of UV.

I've only operated the Locator off of two, 110 Amp SLA's in series weighing waaaayyy tooooo much!


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## BlueBeam22 (Jun 9, 2008)

BVH said:


> There's not much heat generated by the 60" beam. But I'm told that it contains a lot of UV.
> 
> I've only operated the Locator off of two, 110 Amp SLA's in series weighing waaaayyy tooooo much!


 
Thanks! Then next time I walk up to the advertising searchlights I won't be afraid to hold something in front of them and then shine my POB on the same thing for a comparison, LOL!


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## Patriot (Jun 9, 2008)

Bob, what light is in the background in the garage. It looks like another domed light assembly of some time. That's not a second Locator is it!? oo:


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## BlueBeam22 (Jun 9, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Bob, what light is in the background in the garage. It looks like another domed light assembly of some time. That's not a second Locator is it!? oo:


 
I saw that too and I had the same thought Patriot36!:laughing:

I guess two locators would be better than one though, LOL.


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## BVH (Jun 9, 2008)




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## DM51 (Jun 9, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Bob, what light is in the background in the garage. It looks like another domed light assembly of some time. That's not a second Locator is it!?





BVH said:


>


LOL!! That looks like a “Yes” to me!


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## BlueBeam22 (Jun 9, 2008)

:lolsign::goodjob:

It is nice to have two of the same light, I have 2 rechargeable Qbeams, one is 2mcp and I believe the other is 3mcp.

Are the two locators different models or exactly the same?


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## BVH (Jun 9, 2008)

Almost identical twins. One has a little reflector boo-boo and some cloudiness on a part of the bulb.


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## petrev (Jun 10, 2008)

BVH said:


> . . .
> 
> I'd like to find an Ammeter that I could hook in-line or clamp around to give me current flow. Why is it that most of the common VOM's are limited to 10 Amps, one I saw at 20 Amps? Anyone know any good sources? I bought one of those cheap Harbor Freight clamp-on VOM's with "clamp-on" current loop thinking I could read Amps in this type of a scenario but it does nothing. All instructions indicate AC Amps. Nothing about DC. Not being an electrical person per se, is there a difference in measuring AC versus DC Amps? I'm assuming she pulls about 10 to 11 Amps based on 300 Watts divided by 29 Volts = 10.3 Amps. Add to that losses, powering of the electronics, etc. Someone who had one told me it settled at about 14 Amps.


 
Hi BVH

I use an Iso-Tech ICA32N Current Clamp Adapter that plugs into any cheapo multimeter and does AC and DC current 100 and 600A ranges - price must have gone up quite a bit since I bought mine as I would jib at that price now. There is also a Beckman CT-233 Current Clamp.

Cheers
Pete
​​​ ​


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## BVH (Jun 12, 2008)

Finally bought a good AC/DC clamp-on DMM with AC & DC current loop. Added some Ammeter readings to first post.


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## petrev (Jun 13, 2008)

BVH said:


> Finally bought a good AC/DC clamp-on DMM with AC & DC current loop. Added some Ammeter readings to first post.



Hi BVH

470W Power-In (@ 1 minute) Guess 80% efficient ballast ~375W

Can you get to the lamp cables ? If you can safely attach a couple of croc clips to them for a voltage reading at the bulb and get your new clamp meter round one of the wires then we can get the actual bulb wattage in use ! Hopefully ballast is delivering a square wave (or DC?) so that there is no need for TrueRMS or crest factor stuff 

Cheers
Pete


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## climberkid (Jun 13, 2008)

i am saddened inside that i dont have cool toys like you..:shakehead but you rock for having them!


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## BVH (Jun 13, 2008)

I certainly didn't start out with the lights I have now. It's taken nearly 4 years to get here. Have patients and enjoy the ride!


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## BlueBeam22 (Jun 13, 2008)

BVH,

Do you have an estimate for how many miles your Blackhawk Locators HID throws? Can it light up the clouds most of the time? (By light up I mean make a bright spot).


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## BVH (Jun 13, 2008)

Blue, the beam is more of a cross between spot and flood - sort of like that perfect Polarion PHxx hybrid beam. I don't think it throws even 1 mile but I don't really know. Certainly, if I could focus it more, it might throw much further.


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## BVH (Jun 14, 2008)

Petrov, my new meter is a "TrueRMS" meter. I really don't know what the "crest Factor" stuff is but since the meter is TrueRMS, does this "calculation" thing apply?

I'm going to try to set up exactly what you suggested this weekend. I need to be sure I observe my new safety rules after having twice effected dead-shorts with my 28 Volt lights and their power supplies. Once with my tank light - tightening that last nut with a wrench and touching a live terminal-opps, commercial-grade fireworks for a moment (I absolutely know better than to work on live wires when there's a choice to or not to!) and then the other night probing the LarryK14 battery pack and one of the probes slipped - there's those fireworks again. Let me tell you...I've worked with automotive 12 Volt systems for 40 years and effected plenty of dead-shorts, no big deal. Dead shorting 28 volts gets my attention immediately.

Casualties:

Tank light episode - 3/16" half-round section gone out of my Snap-on 7/16 combination wrench - a very beefy wrench it is!

Locator episode - negative probe tip on old Radio Shack DMM burned almost completely off and a very painful burn on my finger where the glowing tip was.

Let me tell you, things get hot in a very big hurry with 28 to 35 Volts DC! My new rule is to use only permanent-type contacts when playing with 28 Volts - unless there's no other way except probing. Commercial connectors, very solid alligator clips with a minimum of 6" between + and -, just being very, very careful. I'm a little gun-shy, which is probably a good thing.

Don't try this at home, boys and girls!


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## petrev (Jun 14, 2008)

BVH said:


> Petrov, my new meter is a "TrueRMS" meter. I really don't know what the "crest Factor" stuff is but since the meter is TrueRMS, does this "calculation" thing apply?
> 
> I'm going to try to set up exactly what you suggested this weekend. I need to be sure I observe my new safety rules after having twice effected dead-shorts with my 28 Volt lights and their power supplies. Once with my tank light - tightening that last nut with a wrench and touching a live terminal-opps, commercial-grade fireworks for a moment (I absolutely know better than to work on live wires when there's a choice to or not to!) and then the other night probing the LarryK14 battery pack and one of the probes slipped - there's those fireworks again. Let me tell you...I've worked with automotive 12 Volt systems for 40 years and effected plenty of dead-shorts, no big deal. Dead shorting 28 volts gets my attention immediately.
> 
> ...



Hi BVH

Don't worry about calculations if a TrueRMS is used - doesn't matter if output is a square wave anyway. Don't forget very high voltage during strike ! ! ! 45kV

36V packs make good welding devices - and I found some smelted copper balls after one incident where some multi-strand did the nasty. Big flashes and cracking noises are a good sign that something has touched !

Looking forward to your results

Cheers
Pete


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## BVH (Jun 15, 2008)

I should be getting my 30 Volt, 50 amp DC power supply this week some time. I'll do the testing when I get it. That way, I can take my time and not worry about battery voltage falling too low and the light flickering off.


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## adamlau (Jun 15, 2008)

Have you ever used the Locator to light up that water tank in the picture you posted in the rangefinder thread?


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## BVH (Jun 15, 2008)

No, haven't done that. I'd be lighting up about 20 or so houses up the street towards the tank because of it's somewhat floody beam. Don't want to tick off the neighbors.


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## RDZombie (Jun 16, 2008)

BVH said:


> I'd like to find an Ammeter that I could hook in-line or clamp around to give me current flow. Why is it that most of the common VOM's are limited to 10 Amps, one I saw at 20 Amps? Anyone know any good sources? I bought one of those cheap Harbor Freight clamp-on VOM's with "clamp-on" current loop thinking I could read Amps in this type of a scenario but it does nothing. All instructions indicate AC Amps. Nothing about DC. Not being an electrical person per se, is there a difference in measuring AC versus DC Amps? I'm assuming she pulls about 10 to 11 Amps based on 300 Watts divided by 29 Volts = 10.3 Amps. Add to that losses, powering of the electronics, etc. Someone who had one told me it settled at about 14 Amps.



BVH, I had my locator on an analog ammeter when i had it mounted on my truck. Running on 28VDC it would draw about 20 amps at start and settle at 14-15 amps after warmup.


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## BVH (Jun 27, 2008)

Ok, finally got my Mastec 30 Volt, 50 Amp power supply. First one arrived DOA! 

The Mastec was in Constant Voltage mode so all levels below reflect 28.8 Volts.

Initial start up:...................12 - 13 Amps
Next 4-6 seconds climb to...18 amps
After warmup, steady..........16.4 Amps

Verified by on-board Mastec Digital Ammeter and separate clamp-on DC Ammeter. Both were within .2 Amps of each other.

472 Watts total, not a very efficient ballast/set of electronics. I would imagine the ballast design is circa 1960's maybe 70's?


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## BVH (Jun 28, 2008)

Now some "at" and "to" the bulb measurements:

Input from power supply:

28.8 Volts and 16.4 Amps = 472 Watts

Volts to the bulb:.....38.1
Amps drawn..............9.35
Watts....................356.23

472 input Watts
356 Output Watts
116 Watts drawn by electronics - 75% efficiency on ballast

2nd test

29.8 Volts and 15.85 = 472 Watts

Volts to the bulb:.....38.0
Amps drawn..............9.4
Watts....................357.2

472 input Watts
357 Output Watts
115 Watts drawn by electronics - 75% efficiency on ballast

The electronics appear to be fully regulating based on the same Watts consumption at the bulb after increasing power supply input 1 Volt. Well, at least from my laymens knowledge anyway. There may be 1 more Watt consumption but as input Voltage was increased, input Amps decreased. There's plenty of room for small errors on the inductive pick Ammeter to account for 1 more Watt consumption.


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