# Lets try to Identify the G90s... picts!



## mdocod (Feb 7, 2006)

Ok... I'm starting this thread is hopes that we can come to a consensus about what G90s are "High-Pressure" and which ones are not... I'll start by posting some pictures of my lamp.

Purchased from Blackrifles, this is "supposedly" a high pressure version.



































This lamp draws ~1.2 amps from 2x17670 protected li-ion sold by AW. It seems very impressivally bright, but I have no comparison lamps in the same class to judge it by...

if anyone would care to contribute pictures to this thread, in hopes that we can come up with a way to identify what G90s are what, it would be awsom..

hope this comes in helpfull! 

PS: please include current draw on your setup, seems there is a lot of variation, some people are around 800ma, others are around 1.3A and lots inbetween.


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## Delvance (Feb 8, 2006)

Here we go!

Purchased from lighthound.com

G&P G90 "high pressure"... powered from 2 unprotected 123's. Very bright and white, when the voltage sags a bit, it loses a little whiteness (but still very white lol) and easily crushes my Peli M6 lithium with UCL. When batt's are fresh, it makes my ROP feel...well not like a ROP :thinking: . ~8600 lux fresh batts. When batts are half drained, about 6000 lux.

Measured it to be pulling 1.11A, half drained batts.












Is that enough pics ? Feeling lazy tonight =P. The filament looks exactly the same as the Digilight one.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 8, 2006)

In my review of the Rico Alpha 9 lamp assembly, I linked to three photos (actually, scans) of a G&P G90 lamp:

G&P 9V lamp (_left_) vs. RICO Alpha 9:
photo 1
photo 2
photo 3

Unfortunately, I don't recall the source of my G90! It could have been my Digilight, my LEDWave Z-3, or the original G90 that came with my G90 flashlight. I think it was the original G90 (non-high-pressure), else I would have mentioned Digilight or LEDWave or High-Pressure.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 8, 2006)

This photo appears to show a 200-lumen G90 lamp removed from the standard black-banded reflector. If the reflectors says HP or High Pressure, it must be on the hidden side of the reflector.


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## mdocod (Feb 8, 2006)

Sweet, thanks so far!...

Delvance- looks like our G90s are about the same- drawing probably 1.2ish on fresh batts, and having very similar looking bulbs...

Pauls G90 looks to have a slightly longer bulb, how much current are you drawing Paul?

I'm thinking about buying a cheapo lux meter off ebay to play with, ehhe.


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## Delvance (Feb 8, 2006)

Np  .

My bulb looks exactly like yours mdocod! I charged the batteries up last night, and with fresh batts, it actually measured 10,000+ lux. I did fiddle with the reflector though. Also re-measured the amp draw, and it wassss 1.2A


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 8, 2006)

mdocod said:


> Pauls G90 looks to have a slightly longer bulb, how much current are you drawing Paul?


Sorry, I don't have a meter. I did notice that my Digilight G120 lamp that said HP had a longer bulb than at least one of my G90 lamps; I thought it was this one...which makes it odd that you think it looks longer than the others. Or it could be that the G120 glass is even longer.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 9, 2006)

And here's the G90's home page, showing the familiar white characters on a black band, without "HP".

The page includes a nice shot of the stochastically textured reflector. Any chance that the stochastic reflector = high-pressure lamp?


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## mdocod (Feb 10, 2006)

hmmm, interesting possability...

maybe if we can get a photo of a G90 that someone knows was definetally sold as a non-HP to compare to. I still feel like the bulb in mine looks shorter than the ones on the G90 homepage, might just be all in my head... lol.


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## LumenHound (Feb 11, 2006)

The black label on the outside of the reflector of the DRB-9VHP I purchased direct from Digilight does not match the label of the Digilight bulb shown in the first post.
Mine is labelled "DigiLight-9V-H.P.BULB" and matches the label shown on the Digilight web page for this lamp exactly.

Why would Digilight sell a lamp labelled G90 when they have their own DRB-9VHP?
Does Digilight source all of their high pressure bulbs from G & P and if so, did they accept the G90 labelled bulbs because the factory didn't have any Digilight labels left to put on them and Digilight needed to fill the backlogged orders?

Also, when I unscrew the lamp from the reflector, there is a pair of thinner o-rings instead of a single thicker one that's shown in the posted photo.

The area where the filament attaches to the posts is different also. On mine, the tiny spot where the filament end is welded to the side of the post is black and the 3 other sides of each post is spotlessly clean. In the second to last posted pic, both posts are clearly black on the 3 sides that can be seen and the blackening extends down 1/4 the length of the post.

These are minor differences, but still, they exist.

No matter how many times I check the current draw of this particular lamp, it still does not draw more than 855 milliamps.


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## mdocod (Feb 11, 2006)

my posts may be blackened because when I first started using it in my flashlight, I did a runtime test where I left the light on for 20-30 minuts at a time with cooling inbetween.. The long runtimes may have blackened the posts- the flashlight did get very hot.

The main thing that concerns me is this indiscrepancy between lamps... main concern is the variation in current draw-

LumenHound: what batteries is your G90 runnin on.... (though, it doesn't seem to effect much)... Delvance and me are getting 1.2A off completally different battery sizes.

I am now very tempted to order a G90 direct from digilight and compare, maybe I can clear this up once and for all..

Thus far I can say this based on the responces: I seems that the lamps that come direct from digilight, are the ones drawing ~0.85A, whereas G90s purchased anywhere else, seem to be drawing ~1.2A.... Does anyone have a senario that contradicts this?

more evidance of this... https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/106334 -Lunarmodule purchased his G90 and G120 from blackrifles just like I did, and his is drawing ~1.2A also.. however, from his review, they still perform very well compared to surefire lamps.


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## LumenHound (Feb 11, 2006)

mdocod said:


> LumenHound: what batteries is your G90 runnin on.... (though, it doesn't seem to effect much)... Delvance and me are getting 1.2A off completally different battery sizes.



Given the difference in current draw, it seems to me that the Digilight DRB-9VHP I purchased from Digilight is not a re-badged G & P high pressure G90 but something else entirely.

When I tested current I used protected 123A sized cells, unprotected 123A sized cells, unprotected 18650's and fresh Battery Station CR123A primarys.

protected rechargeable 123A.......855 mA
unprotected rechargeable 123A....840 mA
unprotected 18650's...................850 mA
3 fresh Battery Station primarys...820 mA

I've now used 4 different multimeters to check this, the last meter being a 10 year old Fluke, and I get the same readings every time.

The lamp I have is much whiter and brighter than the 120 lumen Surefire P61 that I used to run on primarys.

I thought about calling Digilight a few weeks ago to ask about their bulb sources but I don't think they would want to divulge just how many bulb manufacturers they source from.


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## LumenHound (Feb 11, 2006)

One more thing, I've also done more than half a dozen 25-40 minute continuous run tests and the posts in my bulb are still not black like the posts in your bulb.

I wonder if a difference in the amount of pressure inside the glass envelope between these 2 bulbs would cause this?


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## mdocod (Feb 12, 2006)

The possability that the lamps direct from digilight are not G&P at all, is seeming more and more likally.... the only remaining thing to do it put them side by side and compare... I have another ultrafire on the way... it's for my father in law, he's also going to use it for delivering pizza (he does it part time as a second job for fun)... his is going to be 3 cell body run on 2x17500s, whereas mine is the 4 cell body run on 2x17670s... maybe in a few weeks when I have some more money i'll order a digilight lamp and compare them side by side... i can quickly press lamps into the head and swap back and forth, to make sure the battery size won't have too much effect... i really want to get to the bottom of this.


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## mdocod (Feb 12, 2006)

i'm going to contact digilight and see if they are willing to disclose information about whether or not their lamps are G&P lamps or not... and why certain resellers (blackrifles) might be selling lamps in a digilight package, that do not apear to be the same as their in-house veriety... maybe we can get some usefull information...


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## mdocod (Feb 12, 2006)

i am sending the following inquiry to digilight:

*I am asking this question on bahalf of some of the members of the Candlepowerforums community and myself.

We are running into discrepancies between different lamp assemblies and are wondering what's "going on" behind the schenes...

for a long time, it has been assumed that the high pressure lamps sold by digilight and others are high pressure versions of the G&P G90 lamp... and now we are questioning if we are way off on that assumption..

See... Blackrifles.com sells a digilight lamp... they use the same "model number", and picture on their website as you, but upon recieving that lamp, I realized that it is not the same.. mine did come in a digilight package, but that is where the similarities end. Your 9V lamp, draws 0.85amp(tested by members on CPF who purchased the lamp direct from you), and the one being sold at blackrifles and other sellers of G90s draws 1.2amps(as verified by many tests conducted by members on CPF). The lable wrapped around the lamp is also different... your picture shows "9V H.P." on the lamp, the blackrifles version has "G90 9V LAMP" on the actual lamp... There is no indication of the lamp I purchased from blackrifles being anything like your own lamp, even though it came in a digilight package.

So, here's the thing- if you lamp truly is something different, (more efficiant).. Then informing us of the difference would serve to route a large number of recomendations in the direction of lamps purchased directly from you, rather than anywhere a G90 can be had...

Any help would be greatly apreciated in this matter of solving the G90/digilight puzzle.*

I'll post their responce if i get one.


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## LumenHound (Feb 12, 2006)

Your sure to get their attention with that enquiry. Let's hope the powers that be at Digilight are willing to shed some light on the subject.

I went back and checked a few notes I made about the DRB-9VHP. 
I discovered that the longest run on the bulb was done with the pair of AW's unprotected 18650's I have. I ran the bulb for 90 minutes straight. (The 18650's were new and I was trying to put a few cycles on them before the ROP bulbs arrived)

My notes show that the batteries were at 8.36V before the run.
At the start of the run (1 minute in) current was 850 mA and voltage had sagged to 7.70V.

At 30 minutes: 810 mA/7.38V
At 60 minutes: 790 mA/7.13V
At 90 minutes: 780 mA/6.92V
I stopped the test after jotting down the 90 minute numbers.


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## Raoul_Duke (Feb 12, 2006)

I got two L.A.'s from Dan at Blackrifles. Both came In the digilite packages shown in the above pics. 

Both were different. 

One has the blue label on the reflector saying " G90 9V lamp"

The other says "Digilite xenon lamp"

I emailed Dan once I had recived them saying that I was unsure if they were the real deal 175 lumen lamps, as I had compared it to other SF lamps and It didn't look like 175 lumens.

He replied saying: ( I have removed some of the email as it regards other subjects)

All the lamps we sell are from DigiLight, either sold as the
DRB-9VHP
http://www.digilightusa.com/Catalog/product-detail.asp?pid=25

which is sold as the replacement bulb for the T9 (ie the same exact thing),
or pulled from T9s.

One of the two bulbs I shipped you came from Digilight as a DRB-9VHP, the
other was pulled from a new T9. 

I have seen very few bulbs labeled "HP" on them from all of the T9s I've
pulled apart; the last 10 or so I pulled have all had the "Digilight Xenon
9V" yet all of them seem to give the same amount of light output.

One thing to remember is these bulbs are generally
"tighter" than SF; they will throw a lot farther, but not as wide. It's been
my observation that a wide beam is perceived as brighter than it really is,
and vice versa with a tight beam, particularly indoors.

If they're not the 175 lumen bulbs, then Digi has switched to the non-HP
bulbs in the T9 and not told anyone, something I really doubt they'd do. I
will email them and see what they say, and let you know.)


I haven't heard anything back from Dan yet.

If my opinion is anything to go buy, I think Dan Is a straight up guy!!!

He Is the ONLY company I have had any replys from regarding these bulbs, and I have tried emailing all of the suppliers mentioned in the various threads regarding the 175 lamps. None had the decency to reply. (BTW that realy gets on my nerves)

I am naturally a very suspicious guy 
Some say that I analise things to much 

But the one thing that Is still bugging me is; If one of my lamps was a direct pull, why was it in a digilite box/ packaging?

It could be a simple as Dan saved a box from another digilit bulb, that prehaps he used to build another flashlight, or whatever, as we both had concerns about possible damage in shipping to England. But The boxes both had the staples in them.

The staples can be easily removed and replaced, I've done that myself for the one I'm saving.
but why put the staple In if it was a direct pull? I suppose that It would look like a new product. 

One way or another I'd also like to get to the bottom of this.

Unfortunatley my fluke has gone belly up and I cant get another untill I return to work so I cant measure what they are pulling.

Both my lamp look Identicle to the Pics above, although one of mine has the digilite xenon 9V label.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 12, 2006)

Wouldn't it be funny if we all defected to Wolf Eyes later this month, when they introduce their P-compatible 200/220-lumen 9V D26 lamp assembly that draws the same current as their 130-lumen 9V?


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## Delvance (Feb 12, 2006)

mdocod,

Thanks for inquiring on behalf of us here  .

As for a low current 220 lumen 9V lamp assembly... 
Would it fit SF G2/6P etc lights ?


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 12, 2006)

Delvance said:


> As for a low current 220 lumen 9V lamp assembly... Would it fit SF G2/6P etc lights ?


Yes!

It's rates 220 lumens on primary 123A cells, 200 on lithium-ions. That's a clear signal that it's so efficient that small primary cells undergo little voltage sag.

See my thread on these new lamps here.


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## Delvance (Feb 12, 2006)

Wow, very nice. Thanks PiM  !


I quickly checked the review that was linked, 4000 something lux and 100 output on the lightbox. I'll definitely be keeping a close eye on the D26 lamp. Whilst the lux is a bit low for my usage, the output sure sounds nice. I wonder what the G7P P90HP does on the lightbox hrmm.


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## mdocod (Feb 12, 2006)

sounds like i'll be buying a wolfeyes lamp when available, lol!..

I also have a pathfinder P90 on it's way from emilions workbench, i'm going to tinker with that... i'm wondering if the lamp from the pathfinder will unsrew and re-screw into a G90 reflector and vice versa


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## mdocod (Feb 14, 2006)

> Thank you for your email, I apologize for the late reply as we were exhibiting at the 2006 SHOT Show this past weekend. I actually met JimH from the CPF whom you may know; he is a very nice gentleman and had some great products of his own design at the show.
> 
> Regarding our 9V lamps for the T-series, we have been steadily making improvements to our products in several aspects and the lamp is one example. We originally were using a lamp identical to the G&P product as it passed our recoil tests and was readily available. Recently we discovered that the lamp could be made slightly more efficient and provide more output while still passing our real-world recoil testing. Blackrifles.com was one of the earliest DigiLight dealers and may still have inventory of the first-generation lamps. Our newest inventory used for fulfilling direct orders is obviously the latest product.
> 
> ...




well... there ya have it


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 14, 2006)

Seen tons posted on these lamps lately, but never a beamshot comparing them to a Surefire P60 or P91 lamp. Would be interesting. Anybody have any pics?


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## Raoul_Duke (Feb 15, 2006)

I compared my lamp ( direct pull from the T9, Digilite Xenon 9V) on two RCR 123's in a Vital Gear F2, to a Surefire P61 with surefire batteries in a 6P.

There was a little ambient light around from street lamps but not alot were we were.

At about 1 metre against a wall the hot spots were about the same, but the P61 had no spill, none at all, just a hot spot.

The Digilite lamp had loads of spill and a tiny bit bigger hot spot. 

When throwing up to a tree at about 10 to 15 meters away the 9v lamp stomped on the P61. Not loads, but easily noticable, And the tree also had a bit of ambient light on it.

For 20 mins on the P61, and primaries, verses the 40 mins on the Digilite lamp, with rechargables 123's, there is no contest for me.


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## theamazingrando (Feb 16, 2006)

I'm still confused about these lamps (no surprise there!). Last night I compared my Cabela's 9v to my Streamlight TL-3. 

-I bought the Cabela's light 9-10 month ago at their store in MI ($30--a good deal even with the reverse clickie). The packaging claimed "105 lumens for 60 minutes" (Cabela's ads now mention a "high pressure" lamp and claim "120 lumens for 90 minutes). The lamp probably has 3 hours use on it. 

-The TL-3 is brand new. The packaging claims 211 lumens, and I have heard 175 lumens tossed around here as an output figure. 

To my uncalibrated eyeball these two lights have nearly identical output. The Streamlight is a bit tighter and a bit rounder--but overall they are very similar. I compared beams outside and inside. I did ceiling bounces, I switched batteries. They seem very comparable. Were i asked to pick which was brighter, I could not give a difinitive answer.

So...

Should I be able to discern a differnece between 100lu and 175lu? I guess if the Cabela's "105 lumens" is an accurate torch lumen rating, while SL's "211 lumens" is actually bulb lumens--then that would be a 25 or 30 lumen difference in the real world. Should I be able to see that? 

Or, is my "Cabela's G90 9v" lamp the higher output HP model? I can take photos tonight if you guys want to see it.


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## mdocod (Feb 16, 2006)

you could pull the lamp out of the cabela's and make comprisons with the picts/descriptions above, or even better, post closeup picts! and maybe we can identify it... see if it is a G90HP or regular G90, or digilight G90... would also help to measure current draw, it would be nice to have some more figures in on current draw for different variations in lamps... digilight has already been found to not be using an exact G90, who knows, maybe other flashlights, (like the cabela's) could also be using more sophisticated variations of the G90.


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## mdocod (Feb 16, 2006)

oh yea... and about comparing light output... I have had bizzare issues attempting that as well..

when I try to compare my LEDBeam to my G90 lamp, doing cieling bounces, switching back and forth and back and forth, I can't tell much difference at all, even though the G90 is definetally brighter, it's just hard to tell sometimes.. it becomes more aparant when I go outside and use them for pizza delivery.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 16, 2006)

I'm reminded of how mattress makers provide different names for mattresses sold by different stores to make it hard for consumers to compare: Many names, one product. The G90 presents the opposite problem: One name, many products.


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## mdocod (Feb 23, 2006)

i decided to email digilight again on our behalf..

"Thankyou very much!!!
For starters let me say how much we apreciate the information. Having it said flat out has really saved us a lot of head-scratching confusion. As of right now, it would apear that digilight has one of the most efficiant incandecent lamps for a tactical flashliight- edging on the efficiancies normally only found in LEDs, we are really liking these lamps!

So... in light of this new information- we over at CPF have developed some new curiosities, maybe you could help us out...
1. Are the lamp imrpovements in the 9V lamp, also found in the 6, and 12V versions of the DRB lineup? (more efficiant?)
2. What current draw do the 6V and 12V lamps operate at when driven by lithium primaries? (2x and 4x for 6V and 12V respectivally)
3. With high current lamps, we have found that driving 12V lamps on 3 lithium-ion cells often insta flashes the lamp because the lamps are designed with the voltage sag of lithium primaries in mind- if yor 12V is also a "low-current" high efficiant type lamp, then it might be suitable for being run off of a set of 3 lithium-ion rechargables, have your 12V DRB lamps been tested in this configuration? (thinking 3x17670 size lithium-ion spacifically)

Eric Marshall
CPF- mdocod"

that's what I sent- maybe we can clear up a few more odds and ends with another great responce from Jeff over there!


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## billvan (Feb 23, 2006)

My turn to throw in .02 !

I received a DigiLight G90 and G120 late yesterday from Blackrifles.com (Dan is a true gentleman) and loaded them up in a SF C2 with MC123 1 cell adapter for the 9v test. It measures out at about 144 lumens at a distance of about 18". The 12v (SF C2 with 2 MC123 cell adapters) measures at 188 lumens same distance. Both readings are from a Sekonics Zoom 608L exposure meter. This is a interesting method of measuring but I believe it to be fairly accurate. Using SF P60's as a control to calibrate, and several other lights that are less bright/more bright, to compare, the numbers fall in line.

The LA's were in DigiLight packaging, stapled closed and didn't appear to have been re-packed (expected something different since these were "pulls"). NO "HP" on either LA so that put's us back in the same place as to "what are they"??

So... what do we know? The advertised output is less that expected but, still very bright. 9v has tighter hot spot, 12v lots bigger with more spill!

Will do more test when dark and will triple check my meter to be sure it is giving me the right data. My Fluke freaked out and display is really hard to read so I'll get the electrical measurments later when I have more time.

Wish this would have helped but I think we are in the same place.
Dan (Blackrifles.com) sure is a nice guy though and willing to help us figure this out.

Looking forward to Jeffrey's response.

Bill


Forgot to mention, testing was with 123 SF primaries, no rechargables yet.


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## mdocod (Feb 23, 2006)

> So... what do we know? The advertised output is less that expected but, still very bright. 9v has tighter hot spot, 12v lots bigger with more spill!



you can ajust the focus of these lamps- the bulb assembly will screw in and out of the reflector, both reflectors are basically identacle, so you should be able to give eithor one a larger or smaller hotspot based on preference- in fact, they seldom come from the "factory" focused as well as they could be- try doing some ajustments.. (Thankyou Paul for pointing this out in previous posts)

If you look at the pictures I have linked in the first post of this thread- I think you'll find that you have the exact same lamp as I do- in a digilight package, a G90... They are great lamps, but not quite as efficiant as the DRB-9VHP that comes direct from digilight...

maybe you could order a 9V direct from digilight sometime and compare lumen output to the G90s that you have? I have a hunch that the digilights are brighter (as mentioned in Jeffs first responce)

[edit] and if you have a current meter, maybe you could check what kinda amperage you are running at- the G90 is usually around 1.2A, and the G120 more like ~1.35A... The more efficiant digilight DRB model 9V seems to only use 0.8A by those that have tested it.


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## trivergata (Feb 23, 2006)

sorry - wrong thread


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## billvan (Feb 23, 2006)

mdocod said:


> you can ajust the focus of these lamps- the bulb assembly will screw in and out of the reflector, both reflectors are basically identacle, so you should be able to give eithor one a larger or smaller hotspot based
> 
> [edit] and if you have a current meter, maybe you could check what kinda amperage you are running at- the G90 is usually around 1.2A, and the G120 more like ~1.35A... The more efficiant digilight DRB model 9V seems to only use 0.8A by those that have tested it.



Roger that on focus... do you add an o-ring to keep it in place?

Will try to order some direct from DigiLight. probably do just the G90 cuz the C2 is funky with 2 extensions and a little head!
:lolsign:


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## LumenHound (Feb 23, 2006)

billvan said:


> Roger that on focus... do you add an o-ring to keep it in place?



No extra o-ring is needed. The one thick o-ring (or 2 thinner ones) should provide enough resistance between the bulb assembly and reflector to keep the 2 parts from moving once you achieve the focus you like best.


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## mdocod (Feb 23, 2006)

if it comes out of focus when screwing the head back on the flashlight. Paul suggested a small piece of electrical tape to hold it in place in another thread- should work, so long as it doesn't melt or burn, heh


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## billvan (Feb 23, 2006)

Thanks for the o-ring details. Makes a big difference on the hot spot size and overall throw of the 12v LA. If we all keep at it, maybe the manufacture(s) will start labeling these so we know what we are getting!

Think I'm gonna move the G90 to my 6P with adapter. Maybe a T-12 is in my future. Did someone mention a mini turbo head for this model?
Thanks again, Bill


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 24, 2006)

Digilight's 43mm miniturbo--called Range Extender Head--will fit all Digilight T-series models, including their 1x123A T3. It comes with a lamp and an antireflection-coated glass lens.


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## billvan (Feb 24, 2006)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Digilight's 43mm miniturbo--called Range Extender Head--will fit all Digilight T-series models, including their 1x123A T3. It comes with a lamp and an antireflection-coated glass lens.



Does the extender head use the same 12v LA? I went to the website and noticed that it comes with "bulb and special reflector" or does the regular bulb just screw into the long range reflector? 
:huh2:


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Feb 24, 2006)

billvan said:


> Does the extender head use the same 12v LA? I went to the website and noticed that it comes with "bulb and special reflector" or does the regular bulb just screw into the long range reflector?


It comes with a lamp assembly whose lamp is identical to the lamp that comes in the tactical (narrow) reflector. You can buy a 12V range extender head, remove the 12V lamp, remove the 9V lamp from a narrow reflector, and screw the 9V lamp into the larger reflector.

If you need the head and the big reflector but not a lamp, you can save some money by buying one of the Cabella's XPG heads for as little as $23 plus shipping. Someone has just reported that they, like the Digilight heads, use a glass lens.


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