# What essential items go into a first aid kit?



## Raven (Feb 16, 2006)

I'm going to put together a comprehensive first aid kit, and I'd like some suggestions as to what should go in it.

Size won't be an issue, as this is for my home.

Here's what's on my list so far:

first aid book

assorted band aids 
assorted gauze pads (lots) 
assorted bandages (lots)

scissors
tweezers
safety pins

aspiren 
something for colds
something for stomach
antiseptic ointment
rubbing alcohol (lots)

burn gel packs
heating pads

shoulder sling
splint
eye pad

cotton swabs
thermometer
disposable gloves (lots)

antibacterial soap (lots)
vaseline
sunscreen lotion
skin lotion

So am I missing anything important?


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## SolarFlare (Feb 16, 2006)

A sting_kit, and possibly if anyone you know has anaphalactic reaction an epipen


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## nethiker (Feb 16, 2006)

Crazy glue is great for cold cracks in the hands. Some say it can be used to close larger cuts but have not tried this myself.

Might try some Benedryl for allergic reactions. Won't really help with anaphylaxis like the epipen, but you need a Rx to get the epipen. 

A S.A.M. splint is a good addition to any first aid kit.


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## Mike Painter (Feb 16, 2006)

Add a red LED keychain light beside the tweezers. Red penetrates skin well but not splinters so they show up very well. Place the light against the skin in the vicinity of the splinter and it will show as a dark line, even deeply embedded ones.
The "cool" factor is also great for calming kids with painful splinters.


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## Sub_Umbra (Feb 16, 2006)

I think it depends on what you want to do with it. Many people use the term *First Aid Kit* out of habit when they actually are talking about something far more comprehensive -- like a medical kit for a remote wilderness location -- or for an extended emergency -- situations where no medical assistance from first responders is available or expected.

A First Aid Kit is really just that -- something to help you hold things together until you can get beyond the _"First Aid"_ part of a medical emergency.


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## magic79 (Feb 16, 2006)

Your list looks pretty comprehensive.

I would only suggest that you USE your first aid kit. Most folks seem to make one and "save" it for an emergency. If/when the emergency occurs, they find their antibiotic ointment is 2 years expired and the ibuprophen tablets are crushed!

If you use your first aid kit for every little cut and scrape, then immediately replenish it, it will always have fresh supplies when a real emergency occurs.


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## coldsolderjoint (Feb 16, 2006)

I recently did a presentation on the absolute esstentials that Have to be in a good first aid kit. Keep in mind, this is in "Normal Situations" where an ambulance is on the way, and this is for a single patient. Also, this is designed for people who have no first aid training. And this is geared more twoards a Home or Vehicle in a populated area. Your going to have to modify it to where your going to be. Heres what I came up with: 


Airway/ Breathing

•	CPR Pocket Mask (if you have the training, opt for a BVM, Id deffinatley recomend the Pocket Mask over the Barrier sheild)

Circulation/ Bleeding

•	4- 4”x4” Gauze (Don't Waste your time with smaller, you can always fold or cut the 4x4's)
•	1- 5”x9” Gauze 
•	2- 3” Roller Gauze (used to hold the square guaze on, I wouldnt waste too much time with this, the ambulance crew will likely cut it off to see the wound)
•	1- 1” Tape (Thiner wont stick well, thicker sticks to gloves and gathers dirt quickly.)
•	7 ½ “ EMT Shears (Don't waste time with the 5.5's)
•	5 Band Aids
•	5 Alcohol Wipes
•	5 First Aid Cream


Additional Considerations

•	Antiseptic Sprays (Expensive IMO)
•	OTC Medicines (Specialized for your needs, pay attention to expirations
•	Specialized Products (Products for special health conditions your family has)	

Personal Protection

•	3 Pairs Nitrile Gloves (Don't waste time with latex)
•	Alcohol Based Hand Sanitizer (not as good as soap and water)

Injuries

•	2- Cravats (Triangular Bandage) (Soooooo many things you can do with these, don't buy a dedicated sling, use a cravat)
•	1- Emergency Blanket (Silver Foil one)
•	1- Tweezers (pointy)
•	1 Bottle of Saline at least 250ml (Eye/wound wash, sometimes difficult to obtain, try a local pharmacy or ask an EMT)
•	1 Ice Pack (Large 5x9 size, used for inurys or help bleeding aid.)
•	Tongue Depressors (Finger splints, medication administration)

Recommended Supplies

•	Pen/Pad (Need to write down 911 instructions or vitals, or write patient's history and meds in pad prior to emergency)
•	First Aid Guide
•	Flashlight (No brainer on this site)
•	Co-Flex Bandage (Can be used to create pressure bandage, colorful, and no tape needed)
•	Oral Glucose (VERY Useful for diabetics if you catch symptoms early.)



Heres some websites that you can use to buy supplies: 

•	www.galls.com (Profesional $$ Equipment)
•	www.mooremedical.com (Good stuff, but free shipping only with $50 order)
•	www.ebay.com (Large kits available cheap, look for an "OSHA Compliant kit)
•	www.redcross.org/store (Thier new large family kit for $18.95 is a good price)


Training is a vital part of being prepared for a medical emergency. Id really recomend that you go to class (assuming you've havent). 80% of the contents of the bags EMT's carry around is probably never taken out on a "regular" call. Also, if this is for your home, many supplies can be found right in your own home. For instance, the best splint for a broken ankle is a regular sized bed pillow. The blood absorbing capabilities of paper towels and bath sheets are amazing :laughing: You probably wouldn't need the foil blanket even for a home situation. And, also, alot of this stuff doesn't have to be in the "kit" persay. Like the medications and bandaids could be kept in your medicine cabinet. Anything "minor" wouldn't even need you to remove the kit from it's resting place. No need to deplete your "valuable" supplies. 

Learn Basic First Aid and CPR 

•	www.redcross.org
•	www.americanheart.org
•	http://www.nsc.org/train/


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## Coop (Feb 16, 2006)

the crazyglue (ca) suggestion is a very good idea. and it can be used on larger wounds. Even on wounds that would need stitches normally.

Crazyglue was actually invented for this purpose by the US army. To quickly close up wounds during combat.


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## Raven (Feb 16, 2006)

> I think it depends on what you want to do with it. Many people use the term First Aid Kit out of habit when they actually are talking about something far more comprehensive.



This kit will be primarily for Hurricane season.

Right now I'm leaning towards buying a decent mid sized kit, and adding extra pads and bandages, because those seem to be the two things that get skimped on.

Oh, and does anyone know the difference between a gauze pad, trauma pad, and a dressing?


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## amv (Feb 16, 2006)

Glad I came across this thread. I've been searching all over the internet the past couple of days for a first aid kit. Basically I want to keep it in my car so I have access to it both at my primary residence and my weekend house in the mountains. What do you all think of this kit?

http://www.backcountry.com/store/AM...l-Fundamentals-First-Aid-Kit.html?id=cCDxw4xn


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## coldsolderjoint (Feb 16, 2006)

The square guaze pad is the dressing (it is more absorbant and sterile untill opened), and the long rolled guaze is the bandage. In correct practice, the bandage holds the dressing on and never touches the wound (Doesn't need to be sterile, just clean). 

Make sure you un roll it so that it rolls away from the limb. (your putting the "outside" of the roll on the limb) Start wrapping the bandage from the narrow end of the limb twoards the thick. (Wrist to shoulder, and ankle to thigh). This makes it slightly tighter as you wind. If you were to go the other way, the rolls could fall over each other. Commonly, today, the bandage is terminated with a piece of tape, but if you do it right the old school way, you don't even need tape, you can just tuck the end back under a wrap. 

Now, as far as shoppping goes, I think retailer's use the term bandage and dressing as the same terms for un-medical people. 

Trauma pads seem to be just really big dressings. Sometimes referred to as "Multi-Trauma Dressings". I've seen them as big as 16" x 30", although, I've also seen those referred to as " Sterile Feilds" for minor surgical procedures.


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## coldsolderjoint (Feb 16, 2006)

amv said:


> Glad I came across this thread. I've been searching all over the internet the past couple of days for a first aid kit. Basically I want to keep it in my car so I have access to it both at my primary residence and my weekend house in the mountains. What do you all think of this kit?
> 
> http://www.backcountry.com/store/AM...l-Fundamentals-First-Aid-Kit.html?id=cCDxw4xn



Not a bad kit, a bit expensive. Nice bag, looks well built. I would recomend upgrading the cpr sheild to a pocket mask. But then, it might not fit in the bag.


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## Mike Painter (Feb 16, 2006)

Raven said:


> Oh, and does anyone know the difference between a gauze pad, trauma pad, and a dressing?



A dressing is something you would put on a wound and the bandage is what holds it there.

gauze pads tends to be small and thin and trauma pads tend to be large and thick.
Both are nice to have but it is easy to pile more gauze on.

Food and water should be part of your hurricane kit. MRE's etc are not a bad idea but just rotating canned and packaged food out of a well maintained pantry is a lot cheaper and probably a better idea.

You can also find sites that sell bulk items designed for a year's worth of food as some seem to feel needed. 
My feeling on actually needing a years supply of food is that *NOBODY* else should know about it.


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## ChopperCFI (Feb 16, 2006)

There is a very good write up at Equipped to Survive. There is also a description page that talks about everything from pre-made kits to building your own.


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## Raven (Feb 16, 2006)

I just found a nice guide to first aid kits over at Wikipedia, but I can't link to it, for some strange reason.

I'll try again later.


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## Bravo25 (Feb 16, 2006)

I actully keep all of our medical supplies in a large bag, and as things get used, they get replenished. Now here is a tip (go ahead, and laugh, but it works), tampons, and tampax. Both absorb large amounts of blood, and the tampons are great for plugging large holes.


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## tiktok 22 (Feb 17, 2006)

MayCooper said:


> the crazyglue (ca) suggestion is a very good idea. and it can be used on larger wounds. Even on wounds that would need stitches normally.
> 
> Crazyglue was actually invented for this purpose by the US army. To quickly close up wounds during combat.



The medical grade version of superglue is called Dermabond.


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## tiktok 22 (Feb 17, 2006)

Does anyone know the name of the powder you can cram into a large cut to stop bleeding(not styptic powder)? It's used in military and emergency situations.


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## Mike Painter (Feb 17, 2006)

tiktok 22 said:


> Does anyone know the name of the powder you can cram into a large cut to stop bleeding(not styptic powder)? It's used in military and emergency situations.


Look up bloodstopper.
Be aware that if this is not covered in a class you may be found liable if you use it - even if you save a life.

It's so far out of our scope of practice that I've never heard it mentioned in any class.


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## coldsolderjoint (Feb 17, 2006)

Mike Painter said:


> Look up bloodstopper.
> Be aware that if this is not covered in a class you may be found liable if you use it - even if you save a life.
> 
> It's so far out of our scope of practice that I've never heard it mentioned in any class.



Yep, I got some for christmas, and I can't even use it. 

seems to be a standard item in military first aid kits now. Ive talked to a Marine and an Army Chemical Specialist, and they both said they carried it when they were in Iraq.


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## rotncore (Feb 17, 2006)

Quikclot is another brand I hear often...I've heard bad things though for wilderness use, because if you're further from medical attention it doesn't help much.


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## rim74 (Feb 17, 2006)

I always include Lortabs (hydrocodone) in my first aid kits.
You never know when your going to need something
a little stronger than aspirin. I also carry a glucagon pen for
diabetic emergencies.


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## Wingerr (Feb 17, 2006)

Xeroform dressing is a pretty good item to have, it's a non-adhering, occlusive fine mesh gauze impregnated with petrolatum and Xeroform.
I've been trying to find some locally, but couldn't find any sources except online.
I had it put on recently from a visit to the ER, and one of the benefits is that it doesn't stick and pull off the developing clot on removal. Seems to be a standard treatment item in the ER-


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## Acme (Feb 21, 2006)

*Nyctophobics unite! not a real word*

Are you sure it's not a real word?

Here are Merriam Webster 2002 Medical Dictionary and Stedman's Medical Dictionary (the standard medical dictionary) definitions:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nyctophobia

...and some others:

http://www.phobialist.com/#N-

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=nyctophobia

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=11759

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/nyctophobia

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/nyctophobia (also called scotophobia)

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861684183/nyctophobia.html


Acme


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## Sub_Umbra (Feb 21, 2006)

Since the OP mentioned that this will be a hurricane medical kit, just a few of the things I've included in mine:

 *The Merck Manual* -- It may seem a little pricey but it's kind of like a bullet proof vest -- you'll feel like it paid for itself after using it just once.
Some form of Concentrated Anti-Diarrheal agent.
Oral Rehydration Salts. You should also have a recipe to make your own solution for oral rehydration therapy. These may be used to save lives in *many* situations.
Extra RX glasses.
Extra RX meds for you and yours.
Cutting needles, hemostats, suture and everything you'll need to sew up cuts. People will cut themselves more frequently while trying to do unfamiliar tasks in an improvized fashion, with no power.
Some bright light _in the med kit._ Even small medical chores will require more light than you may have. Keep a bright one in the kit in case you get separated from the rest of your stuff.
There is almost no end to this, but you may rest assured that the more well thought out your preparations are, the more options you'll have -- and your options are what allow you to be in control in these types of situations.

Sub_Umbra


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## dfred (Feb 21, 2006)

Sub_Umbra said:


> *The Merck Manual* -- It may seem a little pricey but it's kind of like a bullet proof vest -- you'll feel like it paid for itself after using it just once.



Note that the 18th edition of the Merck Manual is due out in April. The 17th edition is now about 7 years old, so it might be worth waiting to get the most current info...


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## SolarFlare (Feb 21, 2006)

coldsolderjoint said:


> Training is a vital part of being prepared for a medical emergency. Id really recomend that you go to class


 
Thats the best bit of information to come out of this thread, unless ya really "out there" ya don't need to worry about gauze and tape and magic sprinkly dust that instantly heals wounds. If you can calm a person down, and maybe stop the bleedin with anythin that comes to hand, without panicking, then ya a good first aider.


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## Flotsam (Feb 22, 2006)

Sutures/surgical instruments are not an essential part of a first aid kit - the vast majority of people have no training or experience w/ complicated wound closure or minor surgery - best to leave that stuff to those that have been adequately trained.

Most wounds will heal w/ simple care - keep it clean. If you want, a few steri strips to bring the edges together - if the wound becomes infected, the steris won't hold (unless you superglue them on).

First Aid is BASIC care - not advanced. You don't need atropine injectors, skin staplers or an intubation tray - you need something to help w/ CPR - face shield/face mask, whatever. Something to control bleeding & cover wounds - gauze pads, tape, kerlix/ace/coban/etc... Stuff to help immobilize a sprain or fracture - SAM splint, triangular bandage, ACE, etc...Add some Eye Wash (can also be used as wound irrigant), a few OTC meds (to be used for yourself/family), and most of all the training to use it all. You can improvise a lot of the stuff, and a good First Aid or First Responder course will go a long way.

I'd suggest a good Wilderness First Aid course - designed more for injuries where you can't expect help right away.

Good Luck, Stay Safe

Sam


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## Wingerr (Feb 23, 2006)

*Re: Nyctophobics unite! not a real word*



Acme said:


> Are you sure it's not a real word?



Yeah, there are numerous references to the word everywhere, except at m-w - 
I dropped them a note about it, but they still insist it's not a real word, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding-


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## CLHC (Feb 23, 2006)

*Re: Nyctophobics unite! not a real word*

Lots of places to get first aid kits. Here's one I found with many offerings.

http://www.labsafety.com/search/def...id&Ntx=mode+matchpartialmax&Ntt=First+Aid+Kit

Be Safe and Enjoy!


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## beezaur (Feb 23, 2006)

For trauma stuff in my personal kits I like to have a lot of "make your own" type capability. Generally that means a bunch of sterile dressings on the large side that can be cut to size, some things to wrap the dressings with, like 4" gauze rolls, and wide tape, like 2". It is good to have several triangular bandages and a clean sheet or two as well. I like to keep it simple and geared toward major problems, like a broken pelvis or severe diabetic problems.

These are some things to think about:

A bed sheet or two -- major stabilization, like a broken pelvis, and moving patients.

several rolls of 2" tape -- I like cloth tape for splints and stabilization, paper tape for closing wounds.

sterile water, about a quart -- this will not be enough if you really need to flush a wound. Some kind of a large syringe is good to use for that. Be really careful with using disinfectant. Some people are allergic, like me.

I like the oral glucose idea. It is pretty hard to mess up. Just remember they don't injest it; it "soaks in" through the mucous membranes of the mouth.

As mentioned earlier, skill is the most important thing. Get basic first aid, and keep a reference in your kit. I use informed's EMS Field Guides in my EMT exam kit. They are little flip books that give you checklists so you don't forget something in the rush to ship your patient out to difinitive care.

For those interested, I don't think it is out of line to get a "real" emergency medical text. The Emergency Medical Technician curriculum in my county uses AAOS's Emergency Care and Transportation of the Sick and Injured, over 1200 pages of prehospital care information that includes anatomy, physiology, and treatments relevant to those working on an ambulance. If there is no 9-1-1, this is the stuff you want to know. Just keep in mind that the course is a nearly full-time college term with hours and hours of intensive skill drills, homework, patient hands-on, and lecture from experienced paramedics and doctors.

Scott


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## Sub_Umbra (Feb 23, 2006)

Flotsam said:


> Sutures/surgical instruments are not an essential part of a first aid kit - the vast majority of people have no training or experience w/ complicated wound closure or minor surgery - best to leave that stuff to those that have been adequately trained.
> 
> Most wounds will heal w/ simple care - keep it clean. If you want, a few steri strips to bring the edges together - if the wound becomes infected, the steris won't hold (unless you superglue them on).
> 
> ...


I get your point but in spite of the use of the term "First Aid" in the Subject line the original poster stated in a later post that part of what he had in mind was for a hurricane. 


Raven (the Original Poster) said:


> This kit will be primarily for Hurricane season...


Within the last six months *150,000 people in my city (New Orleans) were essentially left on their own for a very long time without any first responders.* Days and days. Many died for really stupid reasons. That is what we are talking about here. If you are only prepared to administer First Aid in that type of situation *your people may very well die waiting for a first responder that may never show up.*

That is why there have been so many good, appropriate suggestions that go beyond First Aid in this thread. No one is telling anyone to do anything that they don't know how to do. 

I have sewn myself up on numerous occasions and I can state definitively that at no time in the last thirty years have I ever regretted having a simple suture kit handy.


YMMV


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## Flotsam (Feb 23, 2006)

I see your point, and it seems well intentioned, but it's not really good advice, even in a long term (days) scenario to close a wound - most wounds, if left open & kept covered & clean, will heal just fine w/ little to no intervention. A wound sutured closed sets up a nice environment for infection, which can rapidly spread and become a serious systemic illness, and quite possibly lead to death. I've treated thousands of traumatic & surgical wounds - in an austere environment, w/o the proper training (which, outside of formal medical education, does not typically include advanced wound closure), you are best advised to to leave the wound open, control bleeding, clean it well (sterile saline or potable water & plain old soap).

I have suture kits (sterile, prepacked) that I have used on occasion - then again, I also have years of experience in wound management, and know how & more importantly when to close a wound. Most people outside of the medical field do not.

For disasters, the big problems usually arise from preexisting medical issues and lack of water & proper sanitation facilities. 

I know plenty of people who have closed their own wounds - fishing line, super glue - you name it, and most of them do OK - but again, most of them haven't really had seriously contaminated wounds & were within a few hours of an ED if it turned bad. They were also typically clean wounds, made w/ relatively clean instruments (hunting knife, kitchen knife, utility knife -you get the picture), which will typically heal better anyways, than a wound caused by a flying/falling piece of debris. Similar wounds healed fine w/ no mor intervention than soap & water and a bandage.

If you want to go out and actually get the training, and more importantly, experience, by all means, do it. But for the relatively untrained person on the street, First Aid will be the best goal, and goes a long way to saving a life - ensure an airway, assist w/ breathing, stop bleeding, treat for shock.

As to having successfully sutured yourself: Kudos - but I submit that the wounds would have healed fine on their own - because in the 12+ years I've been taking of wounds, they do. You may have a bigger scar or longer time healing, but the risk of systemic sepsis is a lot lower (especially if you can't ensure a proper prep, which seems likely in a true disaster scenario). 

A lot of people want to have the little suture/surgical kit - it's got a lot of gee whiz factor to it - the vast majority of people will have no idea how to use it appropriately.


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## Sub_Umbra (Feb 23, 2006)

Flotsam,
Perhaps it's not good advice in your opinion. That's one opinion and you are welcome to it. If you like, you may state that everyone is too stupid to do anything and you may advise them that all they need is half a box of bandaids and a bottle of mercurochrome to get their family through any emergency. 

Yours agruments seem to be generalizations and they appear to be biased at that. I don't know why you are trying to make this sound so complicated. The idea that everyone is too stupid to help themselves is very common today, _particularly_ in the government and medicine. *Of course* things can go wrong with sutures *or any other medical procedure.* It doesn't matter who does it. You may be surprised to learn that it happens *so often* in hospitals that medical science actually has a word for it: *COMPLICATIONS.* Believe me, if there was anything magic about sewing up a wound doctors wouldn't be able to do it.

Not long ago you said that nothing outside the realm of First Aid belonged in this thread and now, suddenly you're concerned about "water & proper sanitation facilities." Make up your mind. Besides, there is nothing complicated about water and sanitation _for anyone who plans for it._ I know. I was in New Orleans for the entire K event. Never go my feet wet. Never got sick in any way, shape or form. If there was anything complicated about water and sanitation the entire human race would have died out eons ago.

Throughout the whole Katrina event the people who insisted that everyone was too stupid to survive were far more dangerous and troublesome *than the storm itself.*


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## nethiker (Feb 23, 2006)

Sub_Umbra said:


> The idea that everyone is too stupid to help themselves is very common today, _particularly_ in the government and medicine.



So true. The problem is catering to the lowest common denomonator. Some people do some pretty stupid things and to help protect them we have to address everyone at that level. As was stated earlier, anyone can get a good EMT textbook or better yet for the hurricane scenario a wilderness medic book and learn some of the basics beyond bandaids and mecurachorome. 

The real problem we face is becomming dependent on someone else to take care of us as a normal expectation. Throw in a disaster which overwhelms the system and people are at a loss on how to help themselves.


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## Flotsam (Feb 23, 2006)

Sub_Umbra, You seem to have misread my statements. Actually, I never said anything outside of First Aid was verbotten. I said that surgical tools really don't have a place in a FAK, and that First Aid, by definition, did not include suturing wounds. Although the original poster is probably getting weary of our bickering, I'll try again.

What I'm trying to convey, and obviously poorly, is that some things are not necessary, and carry a lot of risk -not just in the hands of laymen, but also in the hands of the trained professional. If, in a disaster scenario, I came across someone w/ a nice laceration - and I didn't have the proper facilities/equipment (sutures & instruments alone are not the proper equipment), I wouldn't close the wound - irrigate, remove obvious foreign debris, dress & monitor, yes. Try to sew close a contaminated wound - no. It's not that someone isn't capable of doing so - you can train anyone to suture - it's not that difficult a skill to pick up (although it is a but different than regular sewing). I learned the basics in less than an hour. I've been perfecting my skills for over 7 years (5 years of my medical experience was as an army medic/EMT - there wasn't a whole lot of call for suturing in either, and generally against protocols as well). It's that it's more than likely not necessary, meaning you probably won't die from an open wound, and the wound will probably heal just fine (albeit w/a bigger scar, and a longer healing time), but if you close a contaminated wound (and by definition, all traumatic wounds are contaminated), the risk of systemic infection, sepsis & death, especially in a venue where advanced care (surgery, antibiotics, etc...) may not be readily available, outweighs the benefits of closure.

Of course my statement are generalizations - so are everyone else's. My generalizations are based on training, research, and practical application of my skills on a daily basis, under various conditions. Things would have to be taken on a case by case basis - but does the average guy have the experience to differentiate? In this area, I'd opt for what is safest for the patient. And in my experience, that would mean routine wound care, w/o definitive closure. Now if I had a stocked ER, things may be different. 

It is simple risk:benefit analysis. In my opinion and experience, definitive closure of wounds has a place - just not in the field. Of course there are exceptions - but in order to identify those situations, training & experience is required. I'm not saying you need to be a trained medical professional to peform certain skills, I'm not saying that certain treatment modalities can only be done by "professionals" - I'm saying that unless you really know what you are doing, and are prepared to deal w/ the consequences, you should take the safest approach - you know, that whole "first, do no harm" thing. 

The original poster asked for FAK essentials, and that's what I've tried to impart. I'm sorry I stepped on your toes. I didn't mean to offend you, imply that you were stupid, or that only medical personnel should be able to take care of people. I fully applaud those that wish to be prepared for emergencies, and are willing to step up to the plate. I just want to do my part to help them make the right choices. I've taken care of a lot of wounds. Some that damn near killed the patient (and infection can progress so rapidly it can scare you - progressing from a scratch to systemic, life-threatening infection in under 12 hours). I'd feel pretty bad if I did something I knew was unnecessary, and then the patient suffered for it - but then again, if I did that, I'd get sued, because that's malpractice. 

I'm well aware of complications - it's part of medicine. I just do my best to minimize them.

Again, I'm sorry if my posts have upset some of you. Just trying to help.


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## Flotsam (Feb 23, 2006)

An addendum to add some hopefully useful info:

http://www.jnjgateway.com/public/USENG/Ethicon_WCM_Feb2004.pdf

http://healthwrights.org/books/WTINDonline.htm

http://www.aussurvivalist.com/downloads/AM Final 2.pdf

I may not personally agree w/ everything these sites suggest, but they are a wealth of decent information.


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## Sub_Umbra (Feb 23, 2006)

So, who on this thread advised anyone to sew up contaminated lacerations? No one. You are obviously of the opinion that *only trained medical may make any of these decisions.* That's fine but you must realize that that _generalization_ may be a death sentence in situations where there will be no conventional first responders to respond. No one is saying that anyone should replace the medical profession with home care. No one.

What I am talking about is planning and preparing so that one may have other options _in the event that the whole system breaks down as it did in New Orleans less than six months ago._ That can and has happened in the wake of hurricanes, and the Original Poster _specifically_ mentioned that this was about hurricanes. 

If you are totally confident that anarchy and chaos can never come to your city, that's fine. That's your call. You are free to bet the lives of your family that there will always be a timely response from first responders in every situation. It's that simple.

On one level I certainly see your point and I would go as far as saying that anyone who agrees with your position on this would probably be better off waiting for help no matter how long it takes. 

Good luck to you and yours.


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## Flotsam (Feb 23, 2006)

All traumatic wounds are contaminated. If you didn't get the wound from a sterile instrument, you must assume that it's contaminated. That said - you must now do you best to reduce that contamination. Your advice was to get supplies to suture wounds. The first supplies should be those you get for your brain, in the form of training, knowledge & experience. The Merck Manual is fine for a reference. Unless you know what you are doing, sewing up a simple cut could kill the patient. You want to have options - fine. Get the requisite training. Formal/informal - doesn't matter, as long as the knowledge imparted is accurate. Again, in a field environment, it is inadvisable to close a wound. This is not that it is inadvisable for _you_ to close the wound, it is inadvisable for _anyone_ to close the wound, be they EMT, RN, PA, MD, whatever.

You don't need to be a medical professional to sew someone up, but should have some level of training beyond watching "First Blood" and staying at a Holiday Inn Express. It's not as simple as it may appear, and if you think it is, I have nothing else to offer.

It's not about keeping the masses subservient to the "professionals", it's about doing the right thing.


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## Sub_Umbra (Feb 23, 2006)

Flotsam said:


> ...You don't need to be a medical professional to sew someone up, but should have some level of training beyond watching "First Blood" and staying at a Holiday Inn Express. It's not as simple as it may appear, and if you think it is, I have nothing else to offer...



I'll try to keep your charactorizations of the skills of everyone you've never met in mind


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## Flotsam (Feb 23, 2006)

Geez - you really want to take this personally, don't you? I haven't characterized anyone's skills. I simply stated that closing a wound in the field is poorly advised and not a necessary evil - independent of your skill level. Pretty much everything else you've misintepreted or projected your own feelings. You may be a gifted clinician - I don't know. But that doesn't change anything. I may be a gifted clinician - you don't know, either. Still doesn't change anything. Doing something potentially harmful when it's not really necessary is ill-advised.

I didn't call you stupid, irresponsible, ignorant, untrained, foolish - whatever. I don't know you. I would not imply that I did. I do know wound management. I responded as such. You did imply that sewing someone up was not that big a deal (especially if doctors could do it) - so a little of your bias appears to be showing as well.

But I am curious now - what are your skills? Where did you acquire them? How often do you use these skills? How would you manage a 4" laceration to the forearm that extends to muscles (but not into them)?

Here's your chance to put me in whatever place you feel I belong. You can take it to PMs if you want to spare this thread any more bickering/posturing by either of us.


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## daloosh (Feb 23, 2006)

OK, I'll stay out of this feud (but PMs might not be a bad move guys) and bring it back to FAKs, and you can define them how you want. Just a few observations and clarifications. 

A Bloodstopper is a wound dressing, not a clotting product. It contains a dressing and gauze to wrap the wound up in. Costs mebbe four bucks or so. Very useful, inexpensive thing to have in your FAK.

These clotting agents that have been mentioned are molecular sieves, that is bitty particles that suck up the water in the blood and concentrate the clotting agents. The trade names are Quikclot (mentioned by rotncore) and Traumadex. They are intended for rapid clotting of a major wound for transport to a hospital, where the clot and particles are removed. I think Quikclot is volcanic in origin and must be removed, whileTraumadex can be broken down by the body, but I figger you should have it taken out too.

It can take a lot of time and money to build your own kits, but then you know what each item is and, hopefully, why it is in your kit. If you are going to buy a kit, I like the Adventure Medical series:
http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/

For a hurricane, you may want to focus on first aid, food and water, light and communications. This likely may mean hunkering down and weathering it out. It's easy to overlook the food and water part, since we all have it in our homes. But how much and for how long? Everything in the fridge will spoil in a few days, so dry goods and canned stuff is important (like Mike Painter sez above). A good source for food and water is Emergency Essentials:
http://beprepared.com/

I don't need to tell anyone to stock up on batteries and rotate them thru, do I!! LOL!

daloosh

edit: oh I forgot, a cheaper version of dermabond is the one marketed for animal use, it's called vetbond:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00061MUAG/ref=sr_11_1/103-2123936-1465454?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=284507


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## Raven (Feb 23, 2006)

I really don't want to see my first aid thread moved to the Underground, so hopefully everyone can mellow out a bit 

I've now decided to buy a first aid kit, and simply add some things to it, such as extra pads and bandages, but the problem with that approach is that most kits don't have any spare room, which means I'd have to keep two containers or simply buy a larger container.

It's difficult to actually see any advantage in buying a kit, when most of them seem to inflate their overall size with common bandaids.

I'm now looking at kits for sale on eBay, but I'm hesitant to go that route.


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## Flotsam (Feb 23, 2006)

Campmor sells some pretty nice commercial kits, which are less expensive than Adventure Medical w/o losing much in the way of quality or content.

For generic supplies, I like progressivemed.com - they sell a lot of EMS type supplies & generally have good prices. Other good places are boundtree medical, buyemp.com, mooremedical.com, etc...

For smaller kits, I like to use the small tri-fold toiletry bags from Walmart/Target or the like (campmor often has some at reasonable prices.

Again, sorry for stirring a bit of storm - hope any information I may have given may be helpful. Feel free to PM w/ any questions.

Sam


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## SolarFlare (Feb 23, 2006)

Takes 2 to tango, you carry on posting Flotsam, real world expertise are the best. I get retrained in "first aid" every year, and it's centered around large wounds. I posted earlier in this thread, and my main point was avoiding panic. I work in forrestry, theres heavy plant and chainsaws everywhere, and I've seen some nasty incidents, and I've seen men faint. The body copes in general, the mind doesn't often. I think you should tell us more Flotsam, its your kinda expertise that makes this community stronger


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## rescue-1 (Feb 24, 2006)

Coldsolderjoint and others had great suggestions, but going to add my 2 cents worth. Sounds like you want more than a First Aid Kit which if you got smacked by Katrina you understand why - even the basics were not available and emergency crews were way overloaded. Water water water. And for extra insurance water purification tabs. Keep your supplies simple and fresh. Get new for your emergency kit and ue the old at home. As mentioned before don't bother with all the sizes of gauze, etc. Kotex pads work great as surical type pads and are cheaper. Sterile is best, but clean is okay. If you have a hunk of 2 X 4 sticking out of your leg while knee deep in sewage it isn't going to matter. Zip lock baggies most items - keeps it clean and ususally floats. Try a drill some weekend especially if you have children. Those canned goods are great but if you didn't pack a can opener you might find it tough to have lunch. Pack an escape kit with the essentials. Have other items in tough garbage bag packed in an easliy seen duffle. If your house is spread out over 2 blocks it will be easier to find. Don't forget about basics such as clean underwear, extra lights, and lots of batteries. Baby wipes help with hand washing. cooling off, and a lot better than wet toilet paper to wipe you back side. If you have a baby stock up on everything and rotate it. It is my general impression month olds do not like MRE's. A generator is great too. If not an EMT don't waste a lot of money on high grade stuff. Vet wrap available at the local farm anbd barn is cohesive and cheaper than the stuff you get at the drug store. They both contain latex so wrap a layer of gauze or something under it. Check around the prices vary alot and you can save a lot. Lab Safety is good - and expensive. Check out military surplus stores as well. Work with your local government and neighbors. If your house survives you may have a lot of company for a few days - or weeks. Not to be morbid, but if your neighbor is out of twon or bites it having permission and knowing where there stockis might save your butt. Keep any special medical supplies in your bag. Ever try fo find a ostemy appliance in your size digging though donated supplies at the local point of distribution? Keep up on tetnus shots. Hep A is also a good one. Hep B less apt to be a problem, but if you already work around blood born pathogen hazards get it. Liver disease sucks. Check out a CERT program. They will help train and provide guidance and maybe even equipment. 

http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/index.htm 
http://www.statmedical.com/
http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/emerg_kit.htm
https://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/
http://www.ineed2know.org/Emergency...nd up radios&gclid=CKPInvS1h4MCFU29JAod2QG9kA

In most cases you will never need all this stuff. Start with the basics and go from there. After a month in Katrina Land I am a little pesimistic. Best wishes and hope someday you will wonder why you ever got all that crap since you never needed it.


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## daloosh (Feb 24, 2006)

Welcome to CPF Rescue-1, why dontcha stay awhile!

The ziploc ideer is key, very useful those little buggers, for everything from food to supplies to dirty diapers.

Thanks for your contributions, and welcome again,
daloosh


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## Sub_Umbra (Feb 24, 2006)

rescue-1 said:


> ...Zip lock baggies most items - keeps it clean and ususally floats...


That's really good advice. A year ago or so I bought a *case* of each sized zip-lock freezer bag that Sam's carrys -- in addition to the the sizes I had at home. There is an added benefit to the zip-lock bags that goes way beyond just being another layer to keep things dry. They are also great from an *organizational* point of view.

While on the subject of containers, we've bought cat litter in heavy duty plastic tubs for years and never thrown any of them away. Each tub holds 40 lbs of litter and is a little smaller than a five gallon bucket. They are rectangular and stack well. We have many of them packed with storm gear -- both medical and non-medical. They have labels inside the lids liisting the contents. They also have bail handles and are very easy to move around if that becomes necessary.


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## thatmguy (Feb 25, 2006)

Some of the best guidance for a kit, IMHO, is found in "Wilderness Medicine" by Dr. Wm. Forgey. it is in its 5th or later edition, each improving on techniques and kit contents.

He breaks things down into their relative categories, and has blurbs about each as to why that item/brand was chosen (performance based).

He also has tweaked his recommendations down (from earlier editions) by taking a multi-use approach, eliminating bulk.

Of course, many take the approach to buy a redi-made kit, then supplement it according to your needs/abilities/funds.

Go take a first aid class, be it from the Red Cross or local fire department.

You wil be far ahead.


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## Raven (Feb 25, 2006)

This seems to be a pretty good list of first aid supplies.


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## Datasaurusrex (Feb 26, 2006)

A tube of Bacitracine (sp?) That stuff is absolutly awesome for treating infections.


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## London (Mar 19, 2006)

these guys have tactical kits that are very well though-out:

http://www.chinookmed.com/

personally, THE MOST important item in my kit (besides a light of course) is an elastic band that can be used as either a compression bandage or a tourniquet.
it's pretty hard to superglue yourself when the blood flow is very high...not likely...I've tried.

yes...training is golden.


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