# Plans for the MC-E



## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 4, 2008)

I can't wait for the MC-E to come out. I already have a few things I'd like to try.

2S2P star to DD off Li-Ions or LiFePO4 14500s in a Minimag. To keep the focusability, the pill would have to be slightly loose in the body, which would leave only the body's top "lip" for thermal transfer. It might be more reliable to press fit and/or AA the pill in there, make it fixed focus, and switch with a tailswitch like the (non-IQ) Nite-Ize one. Depending on the Vf, ordinary 14500s might be too much voltage, so LiFePO4s could be good. The difficult parts for this build would be the (copper) pill and finding a small enough star and optic. Still, I think it'd be worthwhile. 

4S1P star to make a sort of Super Birthday Mag, running off 6x14500 instead of 6xNiMH. Hey... would anyone be interested in buying something like that?

2S2P... to replace LuxVs, like in the U2 and so on. :naughty: I don't have any LuxV lights, so maybe some other brave modder will try that out.

MC-Es could be good for a new, more compact video light. Four in series, each wired 4S1P, mounted on a CPU heatsink and fan, powered by five 12V SLAs could be handy.

Let's hear some more crazy ideas!


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## Greg G (Aug 4, 2008)

I want to put one in a Surefire L5, and then build a nice Mag using one.


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## LukeA (Aug 4, 2008)

Greg G said:


> I want to put one in a Surefire L5, and then build a nice Mag using one.



Costco had their 3D mag + 2AA minimag pack discounted to $15, so I picked one up for an MC-E. I don't need it yet, but I couldn't resist at that price.


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## Illum (Aug 4, 2008)

4 modes of light without PWM....
all you need is something that can operate 4 switches:nana:


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## DaFABRICATA (Aug 4, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> 4 modes of light without PWM....
> all you need is something that can operate 4 switches:nana:


 

I want to a driver that will turn on and off each die in timed intervals to make it appear there is some weird twirling going on inside the reflector.:tinfoil::duh2:

...but seriously, I would like to put one in a KL4.

It should be interesting to see what is possible....maybe 7 McR27XR reflectors with 7 X MC-E's-:devil: in a BIG host:naughty:


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## Greg G (Aug 4, 2008)

I think 4 MC-E's and 4 McR19XR reflectors would make a nice light engine for a Mag host.

That's my plan for a NASCAR Fade Mag host. 

Not exactly sure how I'll power it yet. A blue Shark and a battery pack to match how I wire the LED's. I'd like to use a Fivemega 12AA - 3D battery holder.


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## monkeyboy (Aug 4, 2008)

You could use the Fatman driver to drive the MC-E in 4S configuration using either 2 or 3 li-ion in series. This would be a better/ more compact driver solution than anything I've seen for the SSC P7.


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## Illum (Aug 4, 2008)

DaFABRICATA said:


> I want to a driver that will turn on and off each die in timed intervals to make it appear there is some weird twirling going on inside the reflector.:tinfoil::duh2:



hey, haven't thought of that :naughty:
chasing LED circuits are pretty mainstream too

PWM set to exactly a quarter of the period to another LED for 4 strings could potentially allow one LED to be on at any given time, reducing or eliminating a "flicker" effect even on PWM...:green:


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## znomit (Aug 5, 2008)

DaFABRICATA said:


> I want to a driver that will turn on and off each die in timed intervals to make it appear there is some weird twirling going on inside the reflector.:tinfoil::duh2:



Here you go. 10 channel sequencer for power LEDs.

Im thinking of a running three dies off my bike dynamo and the 4th off battery (for when I'm stopped).


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## VanIsleDSM (Aug 5, 2008)

I have a 4 dies in series buck driver designed to run from 6 Li-Ion cells already built, made for the MC-E, I'll be publishing the efficiency figures at different inputs and outputs soon, but it's around 94% efficient.

I have a 3D model for a flashlight already designed to work with the boomerang reflector aswell.. all sealed using reed switching for on-off and brightness levels.

I'll definitely have some extra drivers for CPFers to have a go with.. more to come soon on all this.


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## rantanplan (Aug 5, 2008)

I think I´ll upgrade my "Space Needle"-clone with my first MC-E ... simple Mag 2C with two 18650, a Maxflex/Shark and for the first try the original Mag reflector ... hopefully the four dies will work with reasonable throw and without big holes.

Putting four MC-Es in a Mag would be thrilling :naughty: ... but difficult to realize I guess.


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## chimo (Aug 5, 2008)

It will be nice to see some MR16 halogen replacement products be developed with these. With the 4 die connected in series, it should be a short development period.


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## 2xTrinity (Aug 5, 2008)

chimo said:


> It will be nice to see some MR16 halogen replacement products be developed with these. With the 4 die connected in series, it should be a short development period.


For the 12V type, a simple bridge rectifier, and regulator would work. or 120v, a small 10-1 stepdown transformer might be needed first, but then otherwise, same thing. I ceertainly hope they offer the MR-16s in neutral shades. They will almost certainly be offered in warm (similar to incan) and cool (most lumens).


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## flex76italy (Aug 5, 2008)

VanIsleDSM said:


> I have a 4 dies in series buck driver designed to run from 6 Li-Ion cells already built, made for the MC-E, I'll be publishing the efficiency figures at different inputs and outputs soon, but it's around 94% efficient.
> 
> I have a 3D model for a flashlight already designed to work with the boomerang reflector aswell.. all sealed using reed switching for on-off and brightness levels.
> 
> I'll definitely have some extra drivers for CPFers to have a go with.. more to come soon on all this.




Your project sound very interesting....keep me posted! 

However another generation of led's...but we are ready to spend a lot of money for mod's! :sick2:


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## chimo (Aug 5, 2008)

2xTrinity said:


> For the 12V type, a simple bridge rectifier, and regulator would work. or 120v, a small 10-1 stepdown transformer might be needed first, but then otherwise, same thing. I ceertainly hope they offer the MR-16s in neutral shades. They will almost certainly be offered in warm (similar to incan) and cool (most lumens).




For my use, I was thinking of the 12V type that would work off existing dimmer controls - essentially plug and play. One challenge may be heat dissipation with the current set of fixtures. There should be a sizeable market for those if they can get the price point right. Energy saving and less heat generation.


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## R33E8 (Aug 5, 2008)

*removed*


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## chimo (Aug 5, 2008)

R33E8 said:


> I think heat will be the largest issue.. When I interned at Lamina the heat sinks on the MR16s were well over 50C (as in a too hot to hold for long) at 8 watts... And these heat sinks are definitely not just random design ideas..



I agree, see my post above. 

If we could get some decent output at the sub 5W level it could be do-able.


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## 2xTrinity (Aug 5, 2008)

chimo said:


> For my use, I was thinking of the 12V type that would work off existing dimmer controls - essentially plug and play. One challenge may be heat dissipation with the current set of fixtures. There should be a sizeable market for those if they can get the price point right. Energy saving and less heat generation.


I mean a regulator would need to be built into the lamp, not that the end-user would be required to add one externally. Dimming support will still require a regulator to be built into the lamp -- in fact a much more complicated one, at that.

12V AC is actually a sine wave that oscillates between +17 and -17V at 60Hz. Many cheap LED lights only add a current-limiting resitor, and use the LEDs themselves as rectifiers to only use the positive half of the sine wave, producing a very nasty 60Hz flicker (far worse than the 120Hz flicker of magnetic fluorescents) 

In order to driver the LEDs properly, it's necessary at the very least to add a rectifier and filter capacitor that will convert 12VAC into 17VDC. This is too high to drive 4LEDs directly, so it needs to be stepped down with some sort of regulator. 

The way the typical triac dimmer works is by chopping off a portion of the AC input wave. However, after the rectifying and filtering steps described above, that will not translate into a change in the regulated DC output. A microcontroller would actually need to "look at" the shape of the incoming waveform before it's filtered, then adjust the output current of the regulator accordingly. 

For the design to be considered safe, there will probably also be thermal ramping included, where the lamp would be automatically dimmed if the bulb starts to heat up to an unacceptable/unsafe level. This would be accomplised by adding a temperature-sensor as an additional input to the microcontroller.

The above circuit is fairly complicated, and with the LEDs themselevs costing probably over $10/each even in bulk, don't count on these paying for themselves in energy savings anytime soon -- even in air-conditioned spaces. Of course, saving money certainly isn't the main motivation for me personally being involved with LEDs. It would be worth more to me to have a bulb that is long life, higher color temperature, and dimmable to extremely low levels without changing color temperature.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 5, 2008)

VanIsleDSM said:


> I have a 4 dies in series buck driver designed to run from 6 Li-Ion cells already built, made for the MC-E, I'll be publishing the efficiency figures at different inputs and outputs soon, but it's around 94% efficient.
> 
> I have a 3D model for a flashlight already designed to work with the boomerang reflector aswell.. all sealed using reed switching for on-off and brightness levels.
> 
> I'll definitely have some extra drivers for CPFers to have a go with.. more to come soon on all this.


Any visible PWM flicker? Dimmable? How large?


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## chimo (Aug 5, 2008)

2xTrinity said:


> I mean a regulator would need to be built into the lamp, not that the end-user would be required to add one externally. Dimming support will still require a regulator to be built into the lamp -- in fact a much more complicated one, at that.
> 
> 12V AC is actually a sine wave that oscillates between +17 and -17V at 60Hz. Many cheap LED lights only add a current-limiting resitor, and use the LEDs themselves as rectifiers to only use the positive half of the sine wave, producing a very nasty 60Hz flicker (far worse than the 120Hz flicker of magnetic fluorescents)
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking the time to post this, I know it takes time an effort to present things in a clear manner. However, you didn't have to take the time on my behalf, I'm an EE and understand the theory.  

I still don't think the development will take too long (say within a few years) for products to come to the market and drop to a reasonable (cost-effective) price.


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## VanIsleDSM (Aug 6, 2008)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Any visible PWM flicker? Dimmable? How large?



No flicker, the switching frequency is 575 kHz. 22mm diameter, dimmable via external PWM source for home lighting, and for current dimming, I'm still working on a way to make it 3 or 4 speed with a clicky.. I imagine there must be some chip out there that's preprogrammed to cycle through different outputs from momentary pushes? I'm still not sure how best to go about this.. I could add a small microcontroller but I'd like to keep the cost down as much as possible. I may post in the electronics section for some ideas on how to go about this most effectively.


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## VanIsleDSM (Aug 8, 2008)

Alright.. got some preliminary efficiency figures for the driver.. Still looking into a good way to adjust the Rsns resistor for multiple outputs.. I originally designed the driver to use reed switches to ground the LEDs through a different resistors for different outputs.. but that won't work for a clicky type light, which I would like to make this driver work for aswell..

Due to the fact that I don't have the equipment right now to accurately measure down to the mA (except the under 200 setting) my figures aren't exact.. but they're pretty close.. around +/- 1%

This driver is built with the highest quality parts I could possibly find.. vastly overrated Inductor with very low series resistance, plus a very high quality low Vdrop schottky diode really help the efficiency.







I've got 3 I'll be letting go of here soon, with fixed outputs of choice, (unless you use the available PWM pin) hopefully I'll have an updated driver soon that will have multiple analogue outputs from clicky operation. I'd love any suggestions on how to easily do that.

For home lighting, a good PWM frequency for dimming would be 10khz - 50khz.


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## Nos (Aug 9, 2008)

hmmmmm the add to cart function on cutter is enabled.

does it mean we can allreeady order, or just preorder?


http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=47


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## R33E8 (Aug 9, 2008)

Nos said:


> hmmmmm the add to cart function on cutter is enabled.
> 
> does it mean we can allreeady order, or just preorder?
> 
> ...



We can just pre-order now



> **Please note any orders placed will be backordered and delivered approximately Late August/ Early September 2008**


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## McGizmo (Aug 19, 2008)

Hi guys,
I now have some samples of the MC-E and I figured it would be wise to do some reading on the forum to see what has been suggested and tried with these in regards to the circuit of the four dice themselves. I also read a preliminary spec sheet from Cree. 

Candidly I was hoping for some justification and support in regards to connecting some of the dice in parallel as certainly a 2S2P would lend itself to converters used with the Luxeon 5W. The Seoul P7 has all of its dice in parallel and I assume that they either have done a good job of matching Vf of the individuals or have some form of current control or stabilization, within the package. However, looking at the spec sheet on the MC-E they claim a typical Vf of a die at 3.2 (350 mA) but also state a max of 3.9! If you look at the flux VS current graph provided in the specs, you can see a range from 100 mA up to 700 mA resulting in a .5V range of Vf. This tells me that unless Cree has done some Vf matching of individuals within the package that parallel wiring could result in some nasty current imbalances!?! :green: Bummer! Without evaluating an individual LED and assuming some stability over time of measured Vf's, it seems that the MC-E should be considered as a 4S (all dice in series) proposition.

Am I missing something?


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## VanIsleDSM (Aug 19, 2008)

You should never run constant current through parallel strings of LED unless they each have their own sense resistor to set the current through that individual string. The reason to date, why I haven't purchased an SSC P7s is because of the parallel dies.. the same reason why the luxV didn't do well... it's just not prudent to do such a thing, even with closely matched dies.. there will be imbalance. So then what's the point in a CC driver?

4S is most definitely the best way to go.. and higher voltages/low currents will mean a higher efficiency driver any way.

As for your early MC-E samples, you lucky dog! I've got a host almost all whipped up and waiting for an MC-E I'm so excited. Now cutter is saying late September/early October, but I have to leave in the middle of September for work! I was really hoping they would be shipping in Aug/Sep, but I pretty much expected a delay. Maybe they'll just be delayed more until I get home at the end of November, then I won't miss out on all the fun.


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## McGizmo (Aug 19, 2008)

VanIsleDSM,
Thanks for the response. You echo my feelings and concerns in regards to the LuxV, P7 and now MC-E. I find it interesting that the spec sheet I have on the MC-E doesn't make a direct recommendation for series wiring yet by inference and an image of a mounted LED seems to imply this without actually coming out and saying it?!? The image of the mounted LED is cropped in such a manner that you can't follow the lead traces.

I guess reason and prudence are left to the individual. :thinking:


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## Illum (Aug 19, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> The image of the mounted LED is cropped in such a manner that you can't follow the lead traces.



I dunno where to find any info on these but they are evaluation board pics I found from somewhere. If I understand you correctly they should answer a couple questions


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## trout (Aug 19, 2008)

This is my plan for the mce 
a triple mce bike light using the handlebars as the main heatsink and even if needed putting a small ammount of coolant inside the bars .
which will pool just behind the leds and move inside and act like a car radiator.

The sticking point is driving them I have 15 v and 18 v battery packs but am not sure which would be the best way to drive the 12 emitters
advise welcome please.


here is the housing it replaces the clamp on the front of the bars


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## VanIsleDSM (Aug 19, 2008)

Nice pics of the evaluation board. The LED dies most definitely look to be in series. The anode is connected on the far side of the board, cathode nearest to the chip, then the other pins fan out to vias where they connect in series on the other side.

Also nice bike light concept, I've never seen something like that before.


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## Illum (Aug 19, 2008)

awesome bikelight trout! is that all one piece of aluminum? :wow:


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 19, 2008)

Man, if Cree isn't paying the least attention to Vf matching, why are they making the dice individually addressable anyway? :thinking: Maybe they're paving the way for an RGBA package or something. :thinking:

Maybe that MC-E Minimag build would be better with 4S1P and four 14250 cells, and possibly a resistor somewhere. :thinking:

One more time: :thinking:



Oh, and that's an AWESOME chunk of metal, trout.


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## trout (Aug 20, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> awesome bikelight trout! is that all one piece of aluminum? :wow:


 
:thanks:yes one piece and the top cap all carved with hacksaw and files with a little from a dremel and drill .
Lots of hours 

I just hope it works


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## McGizmo (Aug 20, 2008)

Illum,
That eval board certainly does look like series and it makes sense. I was referring to an image in the preliminary spec sheet which is of a different mount and I would guess it is one sided MCPCB with a series circuit in trace but the cropping is close to showcase the LED alone. Just out of curiosity, I will check the Vf of the dice on a couple samples but I have no confidense or expectation that Cree has made any attempt at Vf matching! Unless things have changed, they don't even bin the single die LED's by Vf.

Trout,
Cool rig you have there and I think using the handle bars as part of the thermal relief package is the only way to go! :thumbsup:


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## longleg (Aug 20, 2008)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Man, if Cree isn't paying the least attention to Vf matching, why are they making the dice individually addressable anyway? :thinking:


 
Welight - are you reading this? Care to comment?


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## VanIsleDSM (Aug 20, 2008)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Man, if Cree isn't paying the least attention to Vf matching, why are they making the dice individually addressable anyway? :thinking: Maybe they're paving the way for an RGBA package or something. :thinking:



Was there ever any documentation that SSC matched Vf on the dies for the P7?

I imagine they're all individually addressable, because that leaves the most options open to the designer. If the LEDs were to be used at low currents, then it wouldn't matter if they were 4P, as even the biggest mis-match wouldn't push a single die over the current it could handle. Also fits nicely into an already widely used package that I'm already very used to hand soldering, the SOIC-8.


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## Illum (Aug 20, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> they don't even bin the single die LED's by Vf.



oo:
thats not good:candle:
Sounds like a surefire way to mix and match colors in one LED...one overdrive and a couple underdriven


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## McGizmo (Aug 20, 2008)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Man, if Cree isn't paying the least attention to Vf matching, why are they making the dice individually addressable anyway? :thinking: Maybe they're paving the way for an RGBA package or something. :thinking:
> 
> .......



If they aren't paying attention to Vf then making the dice individually addressable to allow for the more complicated series circuit is A) almost of necessity and B) allows for this complication to be passed on to the circuit board and avoided in the package itself. 

I can't help but suspect that if parallel were a good path that the spec sheets would make some mention of it or some comment?

In the absence of information and comment from the manufacturer, we can speculate all we like but it is speculation. 

Why did Cree come out with the MC-E? Was it in response to the P7 or for reasons independent of this "competition"? :shrug: Beyond SureFire and some companies serving the CPF niche, is the P7 being used elsewhere? I have no feel for where the markets will be or are being targeted by either of these LED's.

To my knowledge, the P7 was created at the behest of SureFire. I have no idea what brought the MC-E about. In line with some of the comments made here, I believe the MC-E sould be considered a series device and by design, it certainly can be. Is it possible for it to be configured as a RGGB device, for instance? I would guess that depends on when and how the phosphor is added. In the samples I have, it sure looks like the phosphor is isolated to each die and possibly added prior to group assembly. The MC-E package does look like it could be host to a mixed bag of dice. I have no idea how well the common dome would manage and integrate different colors from the four quadrants if a mixed light were built but I would think the close proximity might be an aid to secondary optics in unifying the mix.

I am aware of a few failures in the Luxeon 5W probably based on Vf discrepancy but don't know for a fact that this was the problem nor do I know if Lumileds attempted to match Vf among the dice. 

On the subject of dice in parallel, we shouldn't ignore other LED's which seem to be reasonably crafted and consisting of dice in parallel. There is the Osram Ostar for instance. The Nichia 083 has 6 dice in parallel. There are any number of clustered packages. What is their secret or is there a secret? :shrug:

In addition to speculation in the lack of actual information, we are also prone to make assumptions which may or may not be accurate or viable. In our garage shops and custom activities, such assumptions may or may not prove to be acceptable and by chance or luck of the draw, we might fail or succeed in our builds. At the commercial or production level though, similar assumptions could prove to be quite costly! :green: We assume that the professionals know what they are doing and yet in the leading edge of LED technology, we have seen failures at levels we would certainly not expect!?!?

By virtue of the promise of high flux from a single device, I believe the Ostar, P7 and now the MC-E will be deployed in products ASAP due to market demand but in some cases the design and performance may well be short of optimal in retrospect. This thread is titled plans for the MC-E and how many have made plans without first getting to know the MC-E?

I saw mention of parallel connections of some of the dice planned and this prompted me to post and question here. 

It seems we have a nice void of information and knowledge of the MC-E at this point and this void can be filled with fact or fantasy; it's up to us to decide....

Hopefully those members who have knowledge and understanding can aid those of us (me for instance) who are presently ignorant.


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## jeffosborne (Aug 20, 2008)

This is a good thread.
Good to get a leg up on the planning stage.

VanIsleDSM, I am currently building Hydra-2, a Rebel-based follow-up to my original Hydra torch from last summer:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/170249

Instead of the toggle switches for brighness control, I will use a push button and sequencing IC to cycle through various current-sense resistors. I am using the 4017 5-stage counter to do the job:

http://www.componentsuperstore.com/...px?ProductIdentifier=MC14017BCPGONSEMI9783507

It has an input for the momentary switch, and ten outputs to sequence through. I am using only 4 levels, so the 5th output is tied to the RESET line, so it goes back to the start after 4 switch presses. The outputs go high when active, and in my application will get tied directly to a MOSFET gate. The MOSFET ties the resistor to the regulator. The MOSFET I am using has a very low on resistance:

http://www.componentsuperstore.com/...px?ProductIdentifier=FQP50N06FAIRCHILD6201420

For the Hydra-2, I am using only 3 18650's instead of 6, to reduce the size. Also using aluminum instead of the plexiglass.

Cheers!
Jeff O.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 20, 2008)

Don, I believe the Ostars are in series. This 6-die one has a Vf of about 21V, or around 3.5V per die.


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## VanIsleDSM (Aug 20, 2008)

Thanks jeffosborne.

For the single Li-Ion cell buck-boost driver I've been designing, I'm using a micro controller for the switching of modes, and I was going to just adapt that design to work with the 6 cell (4 LED) and 12 cell (9 LED) buck drivers I have already, just like you've done with the FETs, but then I'm left with a decent way to lower the voltage for the micro, that counter chip has a wider input range, which would make things easier, unfortunately I doubt they make one that can handle the 50.4V from 12 fresh cells.

I'm still left with a decision to make a little switching regulator, or just drop the voltage down in another more crude method... I'd like to keep power draw as low as possible, because I want to be able to use these drivers with a momentary type switch, so the micro will always be "on" with the single cell design I've got it down to:

4.2V - 90uA (600mAh battery = 277 days)
3.6V - 60uA (600mAh battery = 416 days)
2.7V - 20uA (600mAh battery = 1250 days)


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## McGizmo (Aug 20, 2008)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Don, I believe the Ostars are in series. This 6-die one has a Vf of about 21V, or around 3.5V per die.



Yes, you are right, my bad. 

By the way, I did measure two sample MC-E's on my bench supply set at 350 mA and all of the dice (8 total) measured 3.1 V. Pretty balanced there, at least during my quick and rough bench test. :shrug:


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## TexLite (Aug 20, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> By the way, I did measure two sample MC-E's on my bench supply set at 350 mA and all of the dice (8 total) measured 3.1 V. Pretty balanced there, at least during my quick and rough bench test. :shrug:


 
Awesome,thanks for the info Don.

If thats scenario holds true for production units,as I believe it will,we dont have anything to worry about with any configuration.

Michael


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## WeLight (Aug 20, 2008)

Ignoring for a moment the die vf balance issue, a key issue for lighting class leds is cost. if nothing else, a single base, single primary optic, single mount cost etc is a lot about trying to match/approach the cost of incand. While still not there, this approach is certainly is an improvement over 4 x XRE


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## Erasmus (Aug 20, 2008)

WeLight said:


> Ignoring for a moment the die vf balance issue, a key issue for lighting class leds is cost. if nothing else, a single base, single primary optic, single mount cost etc is a lot about trying to match/approach the cost of incand. While still not there, this approach is certainly is an improvement over 4 x XRE


A HUGE improvement indeed, especially for home lighting projects I'm looking forward to this MC-E  Are any samples available for CPF members? I'd love to try one of them


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 20, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> Yes, you are right, my bad.
> 
> By the way, I did measure two sample MC-E's on my bench supply set at 350 mA and all of the dice (8 total) measured 3.1 V. Pretty balanced there, at least during my quick and rough bench test. :shrug:


That matches the Vf of ordinary XR-Es. Even with two series LiFePO4s driving a 2S2P MC-E, current could be in the neighborhood of 1.5A on fresh cells. Of course, current would drop with voltage to semi-reasonable levels after just a few minutes...

It's crazy... so crazy, it just might work!  

And while we're talking about Ostars, I think it's really cool that the MC-E is going to be half the cost and at least double the efficiency of the highest-binned 6-die Ostar.


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## gswitter (Aug 21, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> By the way, I did measure two sample MC-E's on my bench supply set at 350 mA and all of the dice (8 total) measured 3.1 V. Pretty balanced there, at least during my quick and rough bench test.


The sacrificial U2 has accepted it's fate, and is prepared for surgery.


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## ICUDoc (Aug 21, 2008)

How is the total die size on the MC-E compared to the Lux V? Can we look forward to good collimation and only a little dark spot? Or isit too big? Anyone know? I am looking forward to these more than the P7s....


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## RyanA (Aug 24, 2008)

I understand it's supposed to be the same size as an XRE. I wonder if we'll be able to use the pre-existing optics and reflectors? I saw the diffusion angle listed as 110degrees. I wonder if that will affect the focus?


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## TorchBoy (Aug 24, 2008)

If angle affects the focus the focus of the optic isn't good anyway. If the bright spot isn't at the focal point that would change things.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 24, 2008)

Hey David and Ryan,

The emitter surface area of the MC-E is equal to that of four XR-E dice (with a tiny bit of space between them). It's the total package size that's the same as an XR-E.

Since the 1mmx1mm die size is pretty standard, I wouldn't be surprised if the MC-E's die size (or rather, combined dice size) is similar to the Lux V's.


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## RyanA (Aug 24, 2008)

Thanks Tigerhawk! This clears things up quite a bit.


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## ICUDoc (Aug 24, 2008)

Thanks Tiger.


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## Erasmus (Aug 24, 2008)

But unlike the LuxV, I hope Cree puts the dies closer to each other to avoid -or at least decrease- the 'black hole' in the center of a beam after going through a reflector.


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## RyanA (Aug 25, 2008)

So I guess it wont fit an McR19 then. Don you haven't test fitted the mc-e into any reflectors yet, have you?


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## TexLite (Aug 25, 2008)

Erasmus said:


> But unlike the LuxV, I hope Cree puts the dies closer to each other to avoid -or at least decrease- the 'black hole' in the center of a beam after going through a reflector.


 
It looks like they have the die Vf imbalance issue solved,lets hope they addressed that too.

-Michael


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## LukeA (Aug 25, 2008)

TexLite said:


> It looks like they have the die Vf imbalance issue solved,lets hope they addressed that too.
> 
> -Michael



That's why you wire the dies in series.


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## TexLite (Aug 26, 2008)

LukeA said:


> That's why you wire the dies in series.


 
Don measured each die on an MC-E running at 350ma,each die measured 3.1v.

So either way,series or parallel,I dont see how anyone could think there would be a problem.

The P7 has been out long enough now to get some preliminary feedback,and there has not been a problem with die failure due to Vf imbalance.

To continue to suggest there is going to be a problem with without proof is speculation at best.

There may be a time in the future after many hours have accrued when we begin to see failures,but at this time such comments and speculation are unwarranted.

I realize the benefits of series configuration,but parallel has its advantages too.Until there is a definable problem I will continue to use both. 

-Michael


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## 2xTrinity (Aug 26, 2008)

In fixed lighting applications (eg stepped down 120V) I will always use series, both because less regulators are needed to control current with all in series, and the fact that I can attain 12V @ 750mA more efficiently and cheaply than 3V @ 3A, for the same output. An MC-E, with series-wiring, could allow for more efficient single-package light fixtures. IMO this is more significant than nearly any flashlight impllcations.

For flashlights, I'll probably most of the time use 2S2P configurations, with separate regulators for each. 

At some point I also want to make a tiny EDC light using a MC-E, even if it only produces total flood. As it is much smaller than the P7, this should actually be possible. In those cases, I'd most likely drive all in parallel, as the battery wouldn't be able to source enough for Vf to matter, anyway (ie, even if one die took a disproportionate share of current, it would still be within spec)


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## TorchBoy (Aug 26, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> By the way, I did measure two sample MC-E's on my bench supply set at 350 mA and all of the dice (8 total) measured 3.1 V.


Would you mind getting a quick figure for a die at 700 mA?


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## trout (Aug 26, 2008)

Can I ask a question here about optics for the MCE
My Main interest is bike lights 
Carclo are making optics for the MCE in 20mm and 26.5 mm diameter
is there any advantage beam wise for either of the sizes
like is a big optic better than a small optic 

It is difficult to tell from there shots 
I

here are some beamshots from their site


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## TexLite (Aug 26, 2008)

It looks from the pics that the larger optic does a better job of disguising the gap between the dies.

If that truly is the case,then it would be reason enough for me to go with the larger optic.

-Michael


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## LukeA (Aug 26, 2008)

The ellipitical on orthogonal optics could be (very simply!) redesigned to eliminate the dark projected line.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 26, 2008)

Might those 20mm ones (I like the medium frosted one, 10195) fit in a Minimag head?


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## znomit (Aug 26, 2008)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Might those 20mm ones (I like the medium frosted one, 10195) fit in a Minimag head?


 If they don't the polymer optics certainly will. :twothumbs


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## longleg (Aug 27, 2008)

The 26,5mm ones have a narrower beam (13 degrees) than the 20mm (20 degrees). 
I´ve been in contact with a Carclo rep, and he said that they are coming out with an optimized optic (dunno what that means exactly) in a few weeks time.

My plan is 1 x MC-E @ 13 degrees on the helmet, and 2 x MC-E @ 20 degrees on the bars.


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## TexLite (Aug 27, 2008)

I wonder,with questions recently about the legality of retrofitting LED's into headlights,auto and other,and the concern of some bike lights being bright enough to blind oncoming traffic,would the elliptical optics allow these systems to pass legal requirements?

I dont know the specifics,but I know headlights have to meet certain requirements,such as x amount of intensity at x angle or axis.Those ellipticals might actually make the grade?

-Michael


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## McGizmo (Aug 27, 2008)

TorchBoy said:


> Would you mind getting a quick figure for a die at 700 mA?



I only had one sample mounted that I could still access the individual dice with. On it, all four dice measured a 3.3 Vf @ 700 mA. This was a quick measurement as there is no heatsinking beyond the MCPCB of the sample.

I have decided for my first proto to try one of these in a LunaSol 27 package with the MC-E driven by a badboy converter set at 750 mA. The dice will be 2S2P configured.

It seems from some quick evaluations that the MC-E if projected "sharply" by a reflector, you will get a darker cross in the center of the beam. No surprise as viewing the phosphor in the reflector you see four radial lines of no phosphor.


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## TorchBoy (Aug 28, 2008)

Thanks very much.


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## bikerjay (Sep 12, 2008)

Wow hard to get a good spot out of the MC-E apparently. I ordered a LM-1 smooth spot presumably made by ledil from cutter with my MC-E since I wasn't crazy about how the Carclo beams look. I hope it dosnt end up being a wide beam since I plan on building a bike light and helmet mounting it.


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## chris_m (Sep 12, 2008)

Has anybody suggested the idea of retrofitting an old light using a Lux V? You certainly used to get people asking about this when we were all busy modding our Lux 3 lights. You could make one of these work electrically - would it work with the optics?


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## MikeRD03 (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi McGizmo,



McGizmo said:


> It seems from some quick evaluations that the MC-E if projected "sharply" by a reflector, you will get a darker cross in the center of the beam



What I can say so far about my MC-E samples is that they go quite well with your McR-27XR. When using a sharp reflector the cross is hardly noticable, imho.
It is amazing how close Cree has made this package compared to a XR-E emitter opticaly. It is possible to use your McR-27XR only by lifting it some tenth of millimeter..and its bright like hell.

Amazing is also the measured Vf of my samples. All four dies consumes 12,6V when driven at 1A (!). That is unbelivable 3,15V per die in overdrive mode or 12,6W at 1A. It beats my best ostar at 22W regarding throw and I have very well binned beasts around. ;-)

In comparison with a well binned P7 the brightness without optics is about the double when driven at 700mA per die. But keep in mind that the MC-E has a tighter beam angle.

greets,
MikeRD03


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## ifor powell (Sep 13, 2008)

Ledil have some new MC-E optics up on there site. Only preliminary info but I suspect you could do somthing nice with the EVA ones.

Ifor


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## TigerhawkT3 (Sep 26, 2008)

Does anyone know where I might get an MC-E mounted on a 14mm star? I could use a star with individually addressable dice or a pre-wired 2S2P star. Normal-sized stars, like Cutter has, are 20mm.


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## thegeek (Sep 26, 2008)

I believe Cutter has the option for 17mm. I don't know of any place at the moment that has smaller.


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## c0t0d0s0 (Sep 27, 2008)

What's the MC-E dome made of? Is it glass, polycarbonate, or silicone?


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## saabluster (Sep 27, 2008)

1


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## Aircraft800 (Sep 29, 2008)

Here are some closeups:


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## saabluster (Sep 29, 2008)

Aircraft800 said:


> Here are some closeups:


Your such a tease Matt. I think these are the best pictures I've seen yet. Thanks


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## DaFABRICATA (Sep 29, 2008)

saabluster said:


> Your such a tease Matt. I think these are the best pictures I've seen yet. Thanks


 


Yes...Thank you for that:twothumbs

It certainly looks cool!


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## TigerhawkT3 (Sep 29, 2008)

Sweet pics! 

Is the pad on the bottom solderable?


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## Nos (Sep 29, 2008)

btw, is the max current on the mc-e really only 700ma? or did someone try more......like 1A ? :thinking:


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## saabluster (Sep 29, 2008)

Nos said:


> btw, is the max current on the mc-e really only 700ma? or did someone try more......like 1A ? :thinking:


Don't have mine yet but I will be sending WAY more through it than that. FYI that spec is per die so 4x 700mA=2800mA total.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Sep 30, 2008)

saabluster said:


> Don't have mine yet but I will be sending WAY more through it than that. FYI that spec is per die so 4x 700mA=2800mA total.


The 700mA figure is accurate if the dice are in series. Of course, that's not gonna prevent me from running around 1200mA through each die. :devil:


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## JB01245 (Sep 30, 2008)

Not very good alignment of that die on the upper left of the picture :thinking:

Is the dome silicone or glass?


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## saabluster (Sep 30, 2008)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> The 700mA figure is accurate if the dice are in series. Of course, that's not gonna prevent me from running around 1200mA through each die. :devil:


The spec from Cree is a max of 700mA per die. Doesn't matter how you accomplish that series or parallel. I'll be testing them at 2A per die.:nana:


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## TigerhawkT3 (Sep 30, 2008)

Yes, but in your post that I quoted, you said "4x 700mA=2800mA total." If dice are in series, it doesn't make sense to add the current running through each one (unless you want to compare it to a single die running at a higher current). If someone reads your post and thinks, "oh, 2.8A is within spec, great," then puts a series-wired MC-E on a merely modest heatsink and runs 2.8A through it, they'll fry it pretty quickly. I just want to make sure that people know that your 2.8A max spec figure is only applicable to parallel-wired MC-Es.


----------



## MorpheusT1 (Oct 1, 2008)

Any chance these would fit on a Tower module in say a SF M6 and still retain the possibility of using a converter.


Benny


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## Aircraft800 (Oct 1, 2008)

*OH, I almost forgot this pic, nice comparison picture:*





Helps to visualize just where you can fit this small emitter.


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## saabluster (Oct 1, 2008)

Aircraft800 said:


> *OH, I almost forgot this pic, nice comparison picture:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is the picture I've wanted to see most. Awesome work. Notice that Cree actually packs their dies closer together than SSC? And is it just me or does the MC-E's dome have more clarity to it?


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## TigerhawkT3 (Oct 1, 2008)

I think it's funny that the dice in the Cree packages look bigger because of the collimating dome (the one that causes the narrower beam pattern).

Those P7s are just huge. 

Is the MC-E's silicone dome the gummy kind like the SSC P4's and P7's, or the hard kind, like the Lux's and XR-E's? Is it floating, like the XR-E's dome?


----------



## Gryloc (Oct 1, 2008)

I made some measurements based off of Aircraft800's beautiful image and I was able to determine both the gap size between dies (in mm) and also the relative "apparent" die sizes between the three emitters using the EZ1000 dies...



Aircraft800 said:


> *OH, I almost forgot this pic, nice comparison picture:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Again, wonderful closeup!

So, I took that image and physically traced it onto a transparency sheet using a fine-tipped Sharpie marker. My hard drive failed this weekend, but my motherboard has a built on SSD (USB flash) that contains a simplified Linux OS specialized for web browsing (it is called 'Express Gate' and was implemented on newer Asus motherboards). I do not have any paint program, or my beloved Paint Shop Pro to make these measurements, so please understand that my measurements were made using a steady hand and a trace off of my LCD monitor. By the way, could anybody guess as to how nervous I was when I was tracing the LED package and die outlines onto a clear transparency taped in place? Agh! I have done it before, but I was still worried about making lines or dots right outside of the transparency sheet. oo:

Anyway, to the data. I measured the X and Y dimensions of each of the four dies for the MX-C and P7, and compared it to the relative apparent size to that of the XR-E. I used a nice metric ruler (flat and transparent) to measure the different dies and the gap sizes. There is an error of +/-0.5mm for each measurement, so the finished numbers are not perfect! My raw numbers are measured on the millimeter scale, but for now on, I will refer to them as "units" to avoid confusion. I averaged the die sizes for each LED emitter, and used that average when making direct comparisons. Actual die sizes are the same (~1mm x ~1mm), but the apparent die sizes may make a difference when placed behind a smaller sized reflector. 



So, the raw data:

Averaged apparent size of the dies on the Seoul P7: 11.1 units

Averaged apparent size of the dies on the Cree MC-E: 14.19 units

Averaged apparent size of the dies on the Cree XR-E: 15.88 units

Averaged apparent gap between the dies on the Seoul P7: 1.94 units

Averaged apparent gap between the dies on the Cree MC-E: 1.44 units

So, from the raw data, we can compare the apparent die sizes of the three LED emitters:

P7 ... 11.1 units
------------------- = *69.9%* (the apparent size compared to the XR-E)
XR-E 15.88 units

MC-E 14.19 units
------------------- = *89.4%* (the apparent size compared to the XR-E)
XR-E 15.88 units

So, that means that the apparent die size of the P7 is only 78.2% of the MC-E (or the MC-E appears to be 27.8% larger).

The apparent size of the dies will vary depending on the viewing angle, as the XR-E has tighter beam angle. I do not have the P7 and MC-E in front of me to see how the dome distorts the die shape depending on angle.

------------------------------------------

Finally something useful: Actual gap size between the dies on the MC-E and P7!

I was able to find the gap size (in millimeters) for both the P7 and MC-E by comparing the apparent gap size and the apparent die size.

I have not looked at the specs for the EZ1000 die for a while, and my PC at its current state will not allow me to download anything (and I cannot view PDF files), but I know that the die is approximately 1mm by 1mm in size (more like 980nm by 980nm I think). So if I divide the measured apparent gap distance by the measured apparent size of the die, and multiply by 1mm, we should get the actual gap between dies in millimeters, right?

P7:
1mm * (1.94 units / 11.1 units) = *0.175mm*

MC-E:
1mm * (1.44 units / 14.19 units) = *0.101mm*

So, that means that the actual gap between dies on the MC-E is only 57.7% of that of the P7 (the gap on the P7 is 73.7% larger). However, this is when the domes are sheared off to see the raw dies (the bond wires would be ruined by this). 

The apparent size of the MC-E die gaps are still 74.2% of the size compared to the apparent size of the P7 gaps (or the P7 gaps appear to be 34.7% larger).

Apparent gap distances:

MC-E 1.94 units
------------------ = *74.2%*
P7 ... 1.44 units

Does this seem correct? I was hoping it would be useful. Please feel free to tell me if I made a big mistake on my calculations.

Finally, is anyone able to take a nice close-up picture of the Seoul P7 or Cree MC-E next the good old Luxeon V? From that, I can find the gap distance between those dies and the relative apparent die size. The Luxeon V will have to be colored, and not white (but green, cyan, blue, royal blue), because on the white emitters, the phosphor covers up the dies so uniformly, it is not as easy to see the separate dies. On any of the colored emitters, you can clearly see where one die stops, and the next starts. I would appreciate it! I would take the picture, but I cannot post anything at this moment from this PC. Thanks! 


-Tony


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## Aircraft800 (Oct 1, 2008)

Well,

I learned something today, you can not DD a Parallel wired Cree MC-E with one C Sized Li-Ion (charged to 3.8V resting) for more than 4 sec. It draws 3.42A and quickly burns up. 

*Definitely going to need some good heatsinking and a Constant Current driver < 2800mAh...*

*Any suggestions on such a driver? I may use 3 Ni-MH (3.6v) or one Li-Ion (3.7v), just need to keep the current down...*

*I'm glad I have a few more, but I don't want to make that mistake again....*

*I didn't get any chance to test out reflectors :sigh:*

*Maybe I should series wire, that way I will have a better selection of drivers, Shark, MaxFlex, but all of those wires will be hard to conceal.*


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## Gryloc (Oct 1, 2008)

Aircraft800,

Oh, that is really too bad to see a MC-E go. 

Even if you have it pressed against a good heatsink with some thermal paste used as the thermal interface, it shouldn't overheat too quickly. Of course, I say this based on powering the bare P7 with such thermal paste attached to a PIII heatsink and running 3-4A. If it was bare or the star by itself, then I can see it overheating very quickly. Do not feel bad, though. Many of us lost many nice LED emitters in the learning process.

I see that you are trying to figure up how to power them up still. So, are you trying to test them further, or are you trying to find a permanent solution? Why do you have to conceal wires so you cannot use a driver? Is there a target current you are reaching for? Use 11 NiMH cells to give each die 3.3V, or use 12 and a resistor to reduce the current. Wiring them in parallel is tricky, especially when trying to change the voltage very slightly (which changes the current draw quickly). In series, it may be easier to reach the target voltage to get the desired current, and you have more driver options...


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## TigerhawkT3 (Oct 2, 2008)

Aircraft800 said:


> Well,
> 
> I learned something today, you can not DD a Parallel wired Cree MC-E with one C Sized Li-Ion (charged to 3.8V resting) for more than 4 sec. It draws 3.42A and quickly burns up.
> 
> ...


I hope that failure was without a heatsink, because I'm planning on DDing an MC-E at about 3.7V per die with fresh cells.


----------



## MikeRD03 (Oct 2, 2008)

By the way - the MC-E does not have a silicone dome! Ist has a glas dome just like the XR-E emitter. Only with a glas lens such a narrow collimation is possible in this little space.

And it is amasing how close the collimation comes to the XR-E beam - the apearent die size is a good hint for that. This should mean MC-E reflectors are quite close to the XR-E ones. Good work, Cree!

greets
MikeRD03


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## saabluster (Oct 2, 2008)

MikeRD03 said:


> By the way - the MC-E does not have a silicone dome! Ist has a glas dome just like the XR-E emitter.


How do you know this?


----------



## FredM (Oct 2, 2008)

I want to put one in a KL4 head but am scared of the electrical connections. Want to see one on CPF first.


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## MikeRD03 (Oct 2, 2008)

Hi saabluster,



saabluster said:


> How do you know this?



Cause I´m already testing enigeering samples of the MC-E ;-)

greets,
MikeRD03


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## ahorton (Oct 2, 2008)

MikeRD03 said:


> By the way - the MC-E does not have a silicone dome! Ist has a glas dome just like the XR-E emitter. Only with a glas lens such a narrow collimation is possible in this little space.



That is good news indeed. I was upset when I heard about the silicone dome. I really like the glass on the XRE.

...I just hope my 2 from Cutter turn up soon... I've been patient for 7 weeks but now you guys have them I'm envious.


----------



## AvPD (Oct 2, 2008)

What I would like to do is buy a Maglite drop-in and run it from 2x18650. The fact that direct drive is an option is useful as I have a 2D Maglite.


----------



## beetleguise (Oct 2, 2008)

Sorrry Matt, I guess it isn't ok to try out a light without heatsinking first, even for just a few seconds. I did it with other led's without trouble. That was a lot of amps too, I guess it:shakehead was just too much for the poor little fella.


----------



## saabluster (Oct 2, 2008)

MikeRD03 said:


> Hi saabluster,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for confirming that for me. My MC-Es should be arriving any day now. I am glad that they put a hard dome on it. After your post last night I went to look into the data sheets from Cree and found a mention to be careful not to put too much pressure on the dome as it can pop off. Sounds like it has more in common with the XR-E than I thought.


----------



## Gryloc (Oct 2, 2008)

Aircraft800,

I understand if you are still mourning from your loss, but would you be willing to do something for us in the name of science? 

First: Can you confirm that the dome on the MC-E is not soft silicone, but instead it is of a harder material like glass or some form of plastic? I am sure that you can find this by touching the dome, slightly pinching it, or by tapping it with a small metal tool.

Second: If the dome is a hard material like the glass dome on the cree, then that means that Cree had to secure the dome to a little shelf on the LED package to keep us from smashing the delicate gold bond wires when you press down on the dome. If it is like the XR-E, then the dome may be removable (if you carefully shear it off), and it is possible that you can keep the bond wires intact because the dome wires should be suspended in a soft silicone material. So, can you remove the dome (carefully -by a shearing force) while still keeping the bond wires intact?

I asked the second question because without that dome (which magnifies the die image significantly), you can have an LED with four dies that have an incredibly tiny apparent size. This could make the beams in our flashlights even tighter, and may allow the MC-E to be used behind smaller reflectors (17-20mm) while still having a tight and useful beam.

The apparent size may not appear too much smaller, but maybe just enough to make it more useful for some. I do understand that without the dome, you may lose a little bit of light output because optically, the package would be less optically efficient (there is a delicate balance of silicone-to-glass and glass-to-air light refraction going on). However, even if the output may drop very slightly (a few %), it will still be very useful. The tint may shift to a warmer side as well. Removing domes used to be done often with the XR-E emitters back in the day because many of us who grew up with the lamertian Luxeon and Seoul emitters could not find the ideal optics for the XR-E oddball. :duh2: ...I do admit that now, it is an old and extinct practice because there is a large selection of reflectors and optics available for the XR-E. The practice can be brought back up for this one emitter since, according to Mac (cmacclel), there is a nasty presence of a donut with this emitter (regardless to what large reflector you use), and this treatment may help reduce that problem.

So if your MC-E is completely done for, would you mind answering my questions in the name of science? It would be as useful when you remove the dome to get a picture of the resulting apparent die size. You will be helping the CPF community greatly because optical information for new LEDs are useful when starting new projects. 

Thank you so much!! 

-Tony


----------



## saabluster (Oct 2, 2008)

Gryloc said:


> First: Can you confirm that the dome on the MC-E is not soft silicone, but instead it is of a harder material like glass or some form of plastic?


I just received mine and can confirm it is not silicone. I think it is glass like the XR-E but cannot be absolutely certain.


----------



## Aircraft800 (Oct 2, 2008)

Tony,

The dome on the MC-E is not soft silicone, it is hard just like the XR-E.
As for dissecting the MC-E, I'm going to be handing this emitter to *saabluster* for the surgery, he has some small tools, diamond tipped cutters, and he asked first 

I absolutely sure *saabluster *will post his results since he has so much interest in this LED for his ongoing projects.


----------



## Gryloc (Oct 2, 2008)

Thank you Aircraft800 and Saabluster for the confirmation. :bow:

Good luck Saabluster with the disection. I hope that you can show us many pictures of the internals. Would it be too much to make shearing off the dome (as mentioned before) part of your experimentation? Actually, all I care about is knowing whether the bond wires will stay intact so the MC-E will still operate fine without a dome. It would be a bonus to see a top macro view of the MC-E without the dome. A smaller apparent die size will help make this emitter more of a throw monster. I would appreciate it. Thanks! :wave:

I ordered two neutral white MC-Es and one cool white MC-E from cutter electronics this past weekend (along with bunches of other goodies), but I have no clue when I should expect to get them in the mail. Actually, I have yet to receive any confirmation email from Cutter. Is this normal? I hope they ship soon. Some of you have ordered MC-E emitters from Cutter. What have your experiences been like? Thanks again!

-Tony


----------



## saabluster (Oct 2, 2008)

Gryloc said:


> Thank you Aircraft800 and Saabluster for the confirmation. :bow:
> 
> Good luck Saabluster with the disection. I hope that you can show us many pictures of the internals. Would it be too much to make shearing off the dome (as mentioned before) part of your experimentation? Actually, all I care about is knowing whether the bond wires will stay intact so the MC-E will still operate fine without a dome. It would be a bonus to see a top macro view of the MC-E without the dome. A smaller apparent die size will help make this emitter more of a throw monster. I would appreciate it. Thanks! :wave:
> 
> ...


Will do.:thumbsup: Thank you Aircraft800 for offering it up in the name of science. I can't wait to see how they are constructed and will of course post good close-ups throughout the process.


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## 2xTrinity (Oct 3, 2008)

I just finished building a 2C Mag with three 7A bin MCEs, with 2-series, 6-parallel wiring. The light is directly driven off of two LiIon C-Cells, with a power mosfet bypassing the stock magswitch to cut down on resistance.

I used an old tri-star heatsink, and machined triple-reflector I had lying around. Thermal management is pretty slim considering how mcuh power I'm dumping through these LEDs, but I'm not to worried -- If I cook them, I'll replace them with something better in a year.

Draws 4-5 amps through most of the runtime. Smilar power consumption and runtime as ROP, but WAY more lumens and at a steady 3600k color temp. The instantaneous turnon effect is also a trip, as I've been more used to incans with their "warm up" time.

I should have some pics in the next day or two.


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## MikeRD03 (Oct 3, 2008)

Hi Trinity,

Three MC-E together - can´t wait to see pictures and beamshoots of this beauty. ;-)

cheers,
MikeRD03


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## SUBjohan (Oct 3, 2008)

Gryloc said:


> I ordered two neutral white MC-Es and one cool white MC-E from cutter electronics this past weekend (along with bunches of other goodies), but I have no clue when I should expect to get them in the mail. Actually, I have yet to receive any confirmation email from Cutter. Is this normal? I hope they ship soon. Some of you have ordered MC-E emitters from Cutter. What have your experiences been like? Thanks again!
> 
> -Tony



Same here, I ordered 3 mce's and I did not get a confirmation mail 
But I found this link to check your order.
I ordered at 18 sept and the order is still on "payment received".:mecry:
So I hope to get them soon.

Greetz Johan


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## MikeRD03 (Oct 3, 2008)

I ordered mine some months ago and I tried to ask them for a delivery date for THREE times - but so far NO answer. Not my idea of customer service :-(

greets,
MikeRD03


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## trout (Oct 3, 2008)

Looks like they have only just recieved them as this was posted on mtbr



WeLight 
mtbr member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 57 


*Now shipping M bins 430 lumens* 
They arrived today and we will start packing backorders over the weekend
__________________
Cheers
WeLight


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## Endeavour (Oct 4, 2008)

I'll be making a batch of small lights using the MC-E in the next few weeks. I got ahold of the first reel of MC-Es available here stateside and will be receiving some K01 Flux, WG Color bin parts on Wednesday, which should be quite nice. 

I've had some MC-Es here since June and have been impressed with their performance in flood applications - it's a modern day Luxeon V, but far superior in all respects.

-Enrique


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## nwbrewer (Oct 7, 2008)

So I'd like to run an MC-E M bin in a divelight (moded maglight) I 'm probably going to run in 4s configuration, I'd like to run with the maglite reflector ( I want a nice tight beam) Any recommendations on heatsink, or anything else to help make my project successful?

Jake


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## rantanplan (Oct 7, 2008)

MikeRD03 said:


> I ordered mine some months ago and I tried to ask them for a delivery date for THREE times - but so far NO answer. Not my idea of customer service :-(



Same here ... heard nothing for nearly a month since ordering, not even a single reply to email. I didn´t thought that this would take so long, because Cutter stated specific bin codes at that time ... that implied to me that the MCEs were close ... wrong conclusion I guess


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## WeLight (Oct 12, 2008)

MCE has been shipping for the last week, we are shipping WG bins in 430 Lumen for MO1 orders and WC in 430 Lumens for M10 bin orders, sorry for the lack of communication, I have just spent the whole weekend running orders and packing to try and catch up.


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## cryhavok (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks for the update. Just placed an order for 2 MC-E's and reflectors.


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## Blindasabat (Oct 13, 2008)

*Plans for the MC-E: Vistalight Nightstick*

I just ordered a Neutral MC-E and mating 35mm EVA optic from Cutter to put in a Vistalight Nightstick bike headlight. By my measurements, the optic will fit perfectly. The 320 Lumens @ 350mA should be plenty since I think I am only getting ~80 lumens from the light right now and the optic should put more lumens on trail than the reflectored halogen bulb.

This is my favorite helmet mounted light since you can adjust angle on the fly (clicks up and down on helmet mount). It uses <correction> *5*xNiMH battery packs that are ~7.2V no load fresh off the charger. I could use a 2x 18650 Lithium setup if I want.

these have not been made in a while, so a link to the light:
http://www.totalbike.com/news/article/149/

My only concerns are:
1) I may not get my neutral MC-E for a long time since WeLight just posted he was only shipping WC and WG bins. 
2) I still have to fabricate a totally custom copper heatsink to fit in the housing, which I will have to get started on soon.

Any ETA on the Neutral ones?


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## Gryloc (Oct 14, 2008)

I have been talking with Mark at Cutter a bit lately through emails. My order was held up because of some optics did not come in yet to put in my order. There is a Carlco 26mm optic that I ordered (that should be in by now), and those "boomerang" MC-E reflectors that I ordered (that will come in late this week). Those two items are holding back my order (the 2 JF4 neutral white MC-Es and the M10 binned MC-E have been ready to ship). Now I look back, I should have ordered more MC-Es.

So, for those that are waiting, you may be waiting on some other odd parts to ship out, like MCPCBs, optics/reflectors, and drivers. It never hurts to try to email Mark at Cutter and see what the hold-up is. 

-Tony


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## KeithInAsia (Oct 17, 2008)

Quick Question...

Where are folks getting stock for the MC-E right now? (sorry if I missed the post on this earlier).

I have some mounting boards here and I'd like to test them with the actual product.


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## Nos (Oct 17, 2008)

right now in germany we have to shops shipping out the MC-E's right away

led-tech.de 
http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Power-LEDs-Cree/CREE-MC-E-Series-c_120_133.html


leds.de
http://www.leds.de/c2466/High_power_LEDs/Cree_LEDs.html

:wave:


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## ahorton (Oct 17, 2008)

My M bin arrived from Cutter almost a week ago. I'm in Perth, Australia if that makes a difference.


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## KeithInAsia (Oct 18, 2008)

ahorton said:


> My M bin arrived from Cutter almost a week ago. I'm in Perth, Australia if that makes a difference.


 
I am closer to Australia..... Thanks.


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## tsl (Oct 18, 2008)

Would a MC-E work in a SF L1 Cree? Would it turn the throwy beam into a floody one? Will this emitter even work in one cell applications?


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