# New Panasonic extra-smart charger



## PeAK (Dec 3, 2009)

*
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*​* 
Not sure if this is one of the benefits of having acquired Sanyo's Battery division but I was at a sister company of "Best Buy" (Future Shop in Canada) and came across the Panasonic BQ-C01 Charger (*BQ-C01AKM40). This is the ad copy on the back of the package:

 These 4 "AA" cells are the next generation of Ni-MH batteries that can be charged up to 1,200 times. These batteries can be charged and stored for 365 days and still retain 80% of their charge. The Intelligent Charger adjusts the charge rate based on each cells existing power level, ensuring an optimum charge every time. ​
 
 Mfr. Part Number: BQ-C01AKM40 
*More Information*
 Panasonic introduces the intelligent charging system, which optimizes battery performance with built in safety features. 

 The microprocessor controlled charger checks the condition of each battery and indicates if it is ready to use or needs to be charged. Built in sensors prevent overcharging and extending battery life. 

 The Safety features include Alkaline, reverse polarity, and bad cell detection. Also auto shut off and built in temperature control shuts off if batteries become too hot.​The package comes with Evolta batteries that have a similar number of recharge cycles as the 2nd generation eneloops...Sanyo cross-polination, I suppose...

_The interesting (and contentious) claim is the variable charge rate based upon each cells power level. Some early adopters in this forum may be the first to comment after a test drive.

_ This item is so new that it does not appear on the Panasonic web site. Could be that the unit is being "test marketed" in my city ?

PeAK


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## Conan (Dec 3, 2009)

Hhhhmmm interesting!


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## spencer (Dec 3, 2009)

What city you in?


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## Black Rose (Dec 3, 2009)

PeAK said:


> Not sure if this is one of the benefits of having acquired Sanyo's Battery division


It's possible, but seems too early. 

Panasonic and Yuasa-Delta co-developed the alternate LSD technology that is the basis of the Panasonic R2, Rayovac Hybrid/4.0, and some others. They may be able to incorporate Sanyo technology into their designs.

Sanyo has to sell of it's Eneloop factory in order for Panasonic to acquire them. 
Sanyo will still be the brains behind the batteries, even though Fujitsu will be manufacturing them and selling them back to Sanyo.


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## rumack (Dec 3, 2009)

I didn't realize Panasonic had acquired Sanyo's battery division. I hope Panasonic doesn't dump the Eneloop technology in favor of their own.

If this charger really does vary the charge rate based on each individual cell's power level that would be impressive.


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## GarageBoy (Dec 5, 2009)

Wait, so what is Sanyo doing these days?


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## Burgess (Dec 5, 2009)

Well, Sanyo just began shipping a *New, Improved* version of Eneloops.


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## Conan (Dec 6, 2009)

GarageBoy said:


> Wait, so what is Sanyo doing these days?



Sanyo just recently sold their manufacturing plant to Panasonic.


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## bill_n_opus (Dec 6, 2009)

Conan said:


> Sanyo just recently sold their manufacturing plant to Panasonic.


 
I'd like to read more about the economics of that ... why would Sanyo sell off their manufacturing at this time?


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## 45/70 (Dec 6, 2009)

About the charger itself, all I can say is the cells are situated waaaay too close together for all but the most advanced charging algorithm (if it even exists:thinking.

It all boils down to what sells, and what is more convenient. Which sounds better, a vinyl LP or a CD? (Don't get me started! ) Yes, I own mostly CDs, but.....

Good luck, Sanyo/Panasonic!

Dave


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## Conan (Dec 6, 2009)

bill_n_opus said:


> I'd like to read more about the economics of that ... why would Sanyo sell off their manufacturing at this time?



https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/250114


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## OpenGuy (Dec 6, 2009)

It'd be good to get more information on this. I spent all morning trying to find a decent travel charger here in Houston without success.

My definition of decent: individual circuits, 1-4 cells, 2-4 hr charge times, worldwide voltage, small, light-weight.


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## Mr Happy (Dec 6, 2009)

OpenGuy said:


> It'd be good to get more information on this. I spent all morning trying to find a decent travel charger here in Houston without success.
> 
> My definition of decent: individual circuits, 1-4 cells, 2-4 hr charge times, worldwide voltage, small, light-weight.


You will find it difficult to meet that requirement in a B&M store. The chargers I have found that are small and lightweight and offer fast charging tend to make the batteries too hot. Part of the heat problem is having the power supply integrated in the unit and close to the batteries (the closeness being inevitable with everything squeezed into a small case).

If there is a Batteries Plus near you I think they carry some Maha chargers. You could look at the C401FS for instance, except that it does not have worldwide voltage. It uses an external 12 V 1 A power supply and you need to buy a different adapter according to the local voltage (or get the special worldwide adapter that Maha sells).

My favorite travel charger is the Duracell Power Gauge -- long discontinued, but old new stock can possibly still be found in Big Lots. Its main disadvantage is that it does not terminate charge very reliably with AAA cells (but it does AA cells perfectly).


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## T0RN4D0 (Dec 6, 2009)

Well nothing new or amazing AFAIK, it does what every good charger should do, it checks every channel and stops charging when a battery is full. Most cheap chargers charge batteries in pairs, so you must allways watch out you put the right pair in the charger...

So the only "revolution" is that normal chargers adjust their charging to a pair of batteries, while this one adjusts it to every single battery. Lots of chargers out there do that.


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## Conan (Dec 6, 2009)

T0RN4D0 said:


> Well nothing new or amazing AFAIK, it does what every good charger should do, it checks every channel and stops charging when a battery is full. Most cheap chargers charge batteries in pairs, so you must allways watch out you put the right pair in the charger...
> 
> So the only "revolution" is that normal chargers adjust their charging to a pair of batteries, while this one adjusts it to every single battery. Lots of chargers out there do that.



To my understanding the "variable charge-rate" means variable mAh. Currently all chargers have a fixed or "user-adjustable" charge rate. This one looks like it's automatic.


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## ampdude (Dec 6, 2009)

Panasonic have always been my favorite batteries since I used to run them in my R/C cars back in the 80's.  Those old Ni-cad AA's seemed to last forever. I'm definitely looking into these.


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## OpenGuy (Dec 6, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> If there is a Batteries Plus near you I think they carry some Maha chargers.



Thanks. The one near me has the Maha MH-C9000, which is a very fine charger (I have one), but alas it's not what I was looking for.

The only travel charger they had was a "Nuon" 1 hour charger. I hadn't heard of them before, and there was none/little information about the charger on the pack, so I kept looking. I still can't find out anything about them on the web, so I'm glad I passed them up.


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## T0RN4D0 (Dec 7, 2009)

I think thats just marketing talking, i very much doubt that it has any special current changing alghoritms.


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## AlexLED (Dec 14, 2009)

PeAK said:


> The Intelligent Charger adjusts the charge rate based on each cells existing power level, ensuring an optimum charge every time.
> PeAK



Hmmm, what exactly are they referring, to, charge current ? 
Usually, intelligent chargers monitor the voltage change. If the charger does not keep the current constant, monitoring the voltage probably gets complicated. 

Other than that, IMHO the optimal charging current does not depend on the "power level" or discharge status. 

So, overall, I clearly don't see any benefit and would agree with some other's, that the text seems more "marketing" than "technically" driven.


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## SilverFox (Dec 14, 2009)

Hello Alex,

I may have to disagree with you...  

We will have to find one of these chargers and check it out. It may be simply marketing, but if they do incorporate variable charging rates, this could have the possibility of being a very advanced charger.

The Schulze chargers have a mode that use variable charging rates. The charger checks the internal resistance of the cell (battery) and adjusts the charging rate accordingly. As the charge nears completeness, the internal resistance increases, and the charging rate is lowered to keep the cells from heating up. It takes a little more time to charge this way, but you end up with a very complete charge and cool cells.

The downside to this is that people would now have a way to charge crap cells with minimal heating, and would probably keep them around much longer... :devil:

Tom


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## Black Rose (Dec 14, 2009)

Henry's, a Canadian Photo/Video gear chain, is now carrying this charger as well.


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## 45/70 (Dec 14, 2009)

Couldn't this just be a simple CV charger with a set voltage termination? That would explain the variable current and also, how the cells could be placed so close together, as they wouldn't get hot near termination. So much for "fully" charged cells though.

Dave


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## PeAK (Dec 15, 2009)

45/70 said:


> Couldn't this just be a simple CV charger with a set voltage termination? That would explain the variable current and also, how the cells could be placed so close together, as they wouldn't get hot near termination. So much for "fully" charged cells though.
> 
> Dave


I think you are correct or close to the truth but would expect that the _current be limited_ at lower voltages: A *pure/ideal voltage source* could put out huge currents into a discharged battery. It would be very similar to modern day Lithium-Ion chargers but with a different output voltage. Because most of the heating occurs toward the end of the charge, I wouln't be surprise if another *lower current limit* kicked in once the voltage neared 1.4V. In some ways it would be similar to what the Maha C-9000 has adopted...it be interesting to test one :thumbsup:


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## 45/70 (Dec 15, 2009)

Don't get me wrong PeAK, I'm by no means any kind of an electronics expert. I do know however, that NiCd and to some extent NiMH cells, can take rather large doses of current at the beginning of the charge. I just thought, I guess because of the general appearance of this charger, that it may use some sort of CV algorithm, rather than some ground breaking revolution.

It's interesting that Panasonic makes no mention of this charger on their website. This suggests to me, that it's probably made by someone else. I would think if it was a mover and a shaker, that Panasonic would at least make some mention of it. Looks to me like the marketing department has control over this one. 

Dave


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## AlexLED (Dec 16, 2009)

SilverFox said:


> ...
> We will have to find one of these chargers and check it out. It may be simply marketing, but if they do incorporate variable charging rates, this could have the possibility of being a very advanced charger.
> 
> The Schulze chargers have a mode that use variable charging rates. The charger checks the internal resistance of the cell (battery) and adjusts the charging rate accordingly. As the charge nears completeness, the internal resistance increases, and the charging rate is lowered to keep the cells from heating up. It takes a little more time to charge this way, but you end up with a very complete charge and cool cells.
> ...



Hi Tom, interesting, I wasn't aware of that. 

Just measuring the voltage increase during constant current would probably not be sufficient, though, because AFAIK with the increase of the charge not only the resistance increase but also the internal voltage of the cell. So the charger would really have to measure the resistance by drawing at least two different currents from the cell. 

Hopefully somebody will be able to test the charger.


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## moldyoldy (Dec 16, 2009)

OpenGuy said:


> It'd be good to get more information on this. I spent all morning trying to find a decent travel charger here in Houston without success.
> 
> My definition of decent: individual circuits, 1-4 cells, 2-4 hr charge times, worldwide voltage, small, light-weight.



Except for the charge times, those were my requirements for traveling in Europe. The charger I finally settled on after trying a few of the small Maha units is the Sony BCG-34HRMF. Available on Amazon, Thomas Distributing, and other sites. Ensure that you purchase the version with the LCD indication per channel. Otherwise any mixture of 1-4 AA or AAA cells is allowed. charge/discharge(Refresh), Charge rate of 1050ma for 2xAA or 525ma for 4xAA. Charger rate of 640ma for 2xAA or 320ma for 4xAA. Internal power supply and with separable power cord similar to a laptop power cord. Very compact!

I did check the "fullness of charge", MAH capacity, after charging AA Imedions on the BC-700/900 Maha C9000 and this Sony charger. I used the BC-700/900 or Maha C9000 to test MAH capacity. All 3 MAH capacities were acceptably close given the differences in testing algorithyms for MAH capacity readings between the C9000 and the BC-700/900.

These chargers have survived several traveling years among some dozen family, extended family or acquaintances - all non-flashaholics. They just want to charge their batteries and use them in any country. About the only quibble I have with the little Sony charger is that 4 cells get a bit warm towards the end of charge, but that is to be expected for any faster rate charger that packs 4 cells together that close.


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## PeAK (Dec 16, 2009)

OpenGuy said:


> It'd be good to get more information on this. I spent all morning trying to find a decent travel charger here in Houston without success.
> 
> My definition of decent: individual circuits, 1-4 cells, 2-4 hr charge times, worldwide voltage, small, light-weight.


Add Meijer to your decent list. They have the BC-905a...here are the specs.


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## http (Feb 6, 2010)

Hi!

I just bought this charger and wanted to share with you the instructions that comes with it! At first I wanted the energizer CHDC8 for the Delta V shut off and was only 20$. Don't know if this one have that feature because can't find any information about it...:sigh:


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## http (Feb 6, 2010)

So now i've tested the BQ-C01 and it seems to have delta v shut off. And it detect the remaining power of each battery very well!

I tried 4 batteries at the same time, first was fully charged, second about 3/4 charged, third needed full recharge and the last was totally dead.

So when I plug it in the AC the lights flash rapidly and it takes 2 secs to detect the remaining charge. LED of the first and second one pulse rapidly (indicate that it's almost fully charged but continue to be charged), third pulse slowly (indicate that it's being charged) and the last one no light at all, was detected to be dead.

After 15 minutes the first one got a steady green light indicating it's full and nothing changed for the other one.

Very happy with it and mostly because I can charge only 1 battery if I want or I can put a 2000mAh and a 2450mAh because he can detect each battery separately.


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## PeAK (Feb 7, 2010)

http said:


> Hi!
> 
> I just bought this charger and wanted to share with you the instructions that comes with it! At first I wanted the energizer CHDC8 for the Delta V shut off and was only 20$. *Don't know if this one have that feature because can't find any information about it...:sigh:*





http said:


> So now i've tested the BQ-C01 and it seems to have delta v shut off. And it detect the remaining power of each battery very well!
> 
> I tried 4 batteries at the same time, first was fully charged, second about 3/4 charged, third needed full recharge and the last was totally dead.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the feedback. I think that with the problems with smart chargers terminating on a full charger, introducing a feature were that batteries are nearly full would be useful for batteries like the Energizer 2500 and for those who rather top up for more cycles.




​
Above is a condensed section from the http's pic of the instructions posted earlier:*"A double pulse rate means the batteries*
*are ready to use, however, they may not be *
*fully charged. *The double pulse rate will 
continue as the batteries are charging..."​The chart below from Buchmann's site shows the cell voltage, temperature and internal pressure of the battery versus the fullness of charge.




​ So it seems as voltage (as used in the Maha C9000) and the magic 1.47V/cell number is being used as a indicator of the fullness of charge.

...chargers have just gotten smarter...at least the ones with one LED per battery!!!


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## NutSAK (Feb 9, 2010)

Excellent. It looks like this one might finally replace my C401FS as my favorite travel charger.

Thanks for the analysis guys--I'm looking forward to more information about this charger.


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## GarageBoy (Feb 10, 2010)

If it works, I want one. Anyone know where to buy?


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## LEDAdd1ct (Feb 22, 2010)

Here is one in Canada. No affiliation with seller:

http://www.henrys.com/54249-PANASONIC-PRECHARGED-COMBO-KIT4AABQC01.aspx


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## computernut (Feb 22, 2010)

Futureshop in Canada has them as well.
Link

Looks like an interesting charger, I might have to pick one up.


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## Turbo DV8 (Feb 25, 2010)

Cell charge times double when charging 3-4 cells? I don't call that "advanced," I call that _perhaps_ one step above a pairs charger. How advanced can their "variable current" feature be if it can't even provide the same current to 3-4 cells as it does to 1-2 cells?


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## Mr Happy (Feb 25, 2010)

Turbo DV8 said:


> Cell charge times double when charging 3-4 cells? I don't call that "advanced," I call that _perhaps_ one step above a pairs charger. How advanced can their "variable current" feature be if it can't even provide the same current to 3-4 cells as it does to 1-2 cells?


Many chargers I have seen provide double charging current to 1-2 cells compared to 3-4 cells, including some of the latest Sanyo Eneloop chargers. It's logical, since otherwise the spare current available for cells 3-4 would go unused. There are even chargers that will provide quadruple current to 1 cell compared to 4 cells.


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## NutSAK (Feb 26, 2010)

Mr Happy said:


> It's logical, since otherwise the spare current available for cells 3-4 would go unused.



Another positive side effect from this type of operation should also be lower temperatures when charging 4 cells. This is a fairly small charger, and the cells don't appear to have much space to circulate air around them.


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## Turbo DV8 (Feb 26, 2010)

Mr Happy said:


> Many chargers I have seen provide double charging current to 1-2 cells compared to 3-4 cells, including some of the latest Sanyo Eneloop chargers.


 
I know that it is not a death sentence, but it rather smacks of cheap cost-cutting.


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## Mr Happy (Feb 26, 2010)

Turbo DV8 said:


> I know that it is not a death sentence, but it rather smacks of cheap cost-cutting.


I don't get that? It's a feature, designed to let you charge 1 or 2 cells faster than 3 or 4 cells. The extra current is available, why not use it? I don't quite see what you think is wrong there?

In short it's not cost cutting, it's a better (and more expensive) design.


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## Turbo DV8 (Feb 26, 2010)

Mr Happy said:


> I don't get that? It's a feature, designed to let you charge 1 or 2 cells faster than 3 or 4 cells. The extra current is available, why not use it?


 
That's an interesting way to look at it. It is obviously designed this way, for reasons we may disagree upon, but I certainly don't see it as a "feature." I see it rather as a way to charge 3 or 4 cells _half _as fast as 1 or 2. Panasonic could use you in their spin doctor department!  If the charger can't charge 3-4 cells as fast as 1-2, where is all this "extra current" you see? It's a _deficit_ of current when charging 3-4. Or to put it in terms that a "0.5C-1.0C" disciple can sink his teeth into, it's the difference between charging at 0.5C and 0.25C.


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## Mr Happy (Feb 26, 2010)

Turbo DV8 said:


> That's an interesting way to look at it.


But it's not "an interesting way to look at it", it's the same any way you look at it. It's how it is.

It you want to charge 4 cells in parallel at 500 mA you need a 2000 mA current supply (500 mA x 4 = 2000 mA). That can either be a single 2000 mA supply split four ways, or four 500 mA supplies, it makes no difference. Now if you only have a single cell to charge you can feed the whole 2000 mA into the one cell and charge it four times as fast.

Look at it in terms of hosepipes and buckets. If you want to fill four buckets at 1 gal/min you need four hosepipes delivering 1 gal/min (or a giant hose delivering 4 gal/min split four ways). Now if you only have one bucket to fill you can put all four hosepipes into the same bucket and fill it up four times as fast.

Now you say you want to charge four cells at 2000 mA (1C) each? Well then you need an 8000 mA current supply. Which means you could charge a single cell at 8000 mA (maybe it's a D cell).

There is really no way to end this cycle of logic. Whatever rate you decide to charge four cells, you can always charge one cell four times as fast. So you might as well arrange the on-board electronics to do that. Otherwise the extra current really is going unused (your other three hosepipes are shut off instead of feeding the bucket).


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## HKJ (Feb 27, 2010)

I will also say it is cost cutting, the best design will charge at the optimal rate independent on the number of cells.

Another comparison you could make is comparing the power supply to a large or small engine, with a small engine you need to use a low gear (small charge current) when the load is high, with a large engine you can just stay in same gear (same charge current to each cell).


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## PeAK (Feb 27, 2010)

HKJ said:


> I will also say it is cost cutting, the best design will charge at the optimal rate independent on the number of cells.
> ....



In general, I like the slower and gentler (i.e. lower) charge currents that have the batteries charge up in about 4 hours (or 0.25C). The problem is that most (not all) smart chargers have difficulty terminating at this current level. *It remains to be seen whether this charger can terminate at this current level reliably.* For those who like to have their batteries out of the charger faster, this charger provides that through the "nearly full" signal...definitely useful for those batteries that routinely get hot during charging.


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## NutSAK (Feb 27, 2010)

Turbo DV8 said:


> If the charger can't charge 3-4 cells as fast as 1-2, where is all this "extra current" you see? It's a _deficit_ of current when charging 3-4. Or to put it in terms that a "0.5C-1.0C" disciple can sink his teeth into, it's the difference between charging at 0.5C and 0.25C.



Let's say the power supply has a maximum current spec. If the unit uses that maximum current when charging 1-2 cells, or 3-4 cells, how is there a deficit of current? I suppose you might suggest that the maximum supply current should be halved when charging 1-2 cells? That's where the "extra current" would come about--half of the maximum spec that's not being utilized.



HKJ said:


> I will also say it is cost cutting, the best design will charge at the optimal rate independent on the number of cells.



Is your definition of "optimal rate" the rate at which the charger successfully terminates charge? As PeAK mentioned, that is an unknown for this charger at this time. If both 1-2 and 3-4 cell rates successfully terminate, wouldn't they both be "optimal", since they're using all current available to the unit?


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## HKJ (Feb 27, 2010)

NutSAK said:


> Is your definition of "optimal rate" the rate at which the charger successfully terminates charge? As PeAK mentioned, that is an unknown for this charger at this time. If both 1-2 and 3-4 cell rates successfully terminate, wouldn't they both be "optimal", since they're using all current available to the unit?



Charge termination is one parameter for optimal rate, other parameters will include putting the most possible power into the batteries, giving the batteries as long a life as possible and being as fast as possible, all optimized for Panasonic batteries (Because it is a Panasonic charger).
I do not know what that charge rate is, but I hope Panasonic does.
As long as the charger is running on the mains supply, the available current is much higher than you can safely use with 4 AA batteries, except when you save money on the power supply. I have a charger that can charge 8 AA batteries with 2 A current for each and it is not even close to maximum current I can draw from the outlet.


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## Turbo DV8 (Feb 28, 2010)

HKJ said:


> I will also say it is cost cutting, the best design will charge at the optimal rate independent on the number of cells.


 
That's pretty much what I am trying to say. If this is being touted as the latest, greatest "extra smartest" charger thingy, with super-advanced current control, why is the current it is capable of delivering to each cell dependent on the number of cells? I understand, Mr. Happy, that we may have here a case of "glass half-full or half-empty," but in defending the charger on this basis, would you be happy if your C9000 used a smaller PS and could not deliver the same current to four cells as it could to an individual cell? Would you consider it "_a better (and more expensive) design_" if they used a smaller PS and divided it up four ways, but let you deliver "full" current to one or two cells? That's exactly what the Panasonic is doing. I don't recall the exact maximum charge rate of the C9000, but let's say it is 2A per channel. So it needs an 8A PS to charge each at 2A. What you are arguing is that it would be a "_a better (and more expensive) design" _if Maha used a 4A PS and could charge 4 cells at 1A, but when charging only one or two cells, it could charge at 2A, because _"the extra current is available, why not use it." _In the end, you're only left with the fact that they would have cheaped out by using a smaller, cheaper PS, not a "better, more expensive" one.


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## Turbo DV8 (Feb 28, 2010)

NutSAK said:


> Let's say the power supply has a maximum current spec. If the unit uses that maximum current when charging 1-2 cells, or 3-4 cells, how is there a deficit of current? I suppose you might suggest that the maximum supply current should be halved when charging 1-2 cells? That's where the "extra current" would come about--half of the maximum spec that's not being utilized.


 
OK, people, for some of us, the glass is half full. For others, half empty. So let's tackle this from a purely logical angle. When charging 1-2 cells, they are utilizing the so-called "extra current." By the very act of _doing_ this, they are acknowledging that it is _desireable_ to do so, otherwise they would _not_ do it. So, if it is desireable to charge 1-2 cells at a given higher rate, why would they not provide a PS capable of delivering this same current to 3-4 cells, if for no other reason than to cut costs on the PS?


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## Mr Happy (Feb 28, 2010)

Turbo DV8 said:


> I don't recall the exact maximum charge rate of the C9000, but let's say it is 2A per channel. So it needs an 8A PS to charge each at 2A. What you are arguing is that it would be a "_a better (and more expensive) design" _if Maha used a 4A PS and could charge 4 cells at 1A, but when charging only one or two cells, it could charge at 2A, because _"the extra current is available, why not use it." _In the end, you're only left with the fact that they would have cheaped out by using a smaller, cheaper PS, not a "better, more expensive" one.


You are almost there, but not quite 

The C9000 can charge each channel at 2 A simultaneously. Therefore it has the ability to charge two channels at 4 A or one channel at 8 A, and _it would be a better and more expensive charger if it actually did that_, but it can't, because Maha cheaped out and did not add the controls for it. 

Do you see what I'm getting at?


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## HKJ (Feb 28, 2010)

Mr Happy said:


> You are almost there, but not quite
> 
> The C9000 can charge each channel at 2 A simultaneously. Therefore it has the ability to charge two channels at 4 A or one channel at 8 A, and _it would be a better and more expensive charger if it actually did that_, but it can't, because Maha cheaped out and did not add the controls for it.
> 
> Do you see what I'm getting at?



You are good to have around when doing cost cutting in a design, because you can make it sound like an advantage.

With the Panasonic charger you can not select normal/turbo rate, that spoils you explanation, or do you mean that the optimal charge rate depends on the number of batteries in the charger?
A design that always uses the low rate, but has a turbo button that could be activate, when only two batteries was loaded, would be much more convincing.


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## Conan (Feb 28, 2010)

Well to put it in perspective this is just a compact travel charger. In now way can it rival the likes of the Maha C9000.


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## uk_caver (Feb 28, 2010)

Conan said:


> Well to put it in perspective this is just a compact travel charger. In no way can it rival the likes of the Maha C9000.


Quite.
A compact travel charger, presumably with a necessarily limited cooling budget.

Personally, as someone who uses 1,2,3 and 4-cell devices, I'd probably find a travel charger that had an extra-fast rate for 1 or 2 cells at least as good as one that didn't, especially if it wasn't a particularly fast charger.


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## NutSAK (Feb 28, 2010)

Turbo DV8 said:


> So, if it is desireable to charge 1-2 cells at a given higher rate, why would they not provide a PS capable of delivering this same current to 3-4 cells, if for no other reason than to cut costs on the PS?



Possibly to keep 3-4 batteries cooler while charging. There are limitations to a compact design like this, and sometimes there have to be trade-offs. EDIT: I see that uk_caver already mentioned this...

I don't agree that cost-cutting is the only logical reason for the difference in current between 1-2 or 3-4 cell charging.


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## PeAK (Mar 1, 2010)

HKJ said:


> Charge termination is one parameter for optimal rate, other parameters will include *putting the most possible power* into the batteries, giving the batteries as long a life as possible and being as fast as possible, all optimized for Panasonic batteries (Because it is a Panasonic charger).
> I do not know what that charge rate is, but I hope Panasonic does.
> As long as the charger is running on the mains supply, the available current is much higher than you can safely use with 4 AA batteries, except when you *save money on the power supply*. I have a charger that can charge 8 AA batteries with 2 A current for each and it is not even close to maximum current I can draw from the outlet.



This post alludes to the the point that more must be better when it comes down to charging current. As is the case with many things purchased out of pocket money, better thought out designs attempt to give you choice by making smart tradeoffs. Many battery powered products typically run off of 2 batteries, so targetting the lowest weight (and cost to the consumer) would be to put in a supply that could pump out 0.5C.

By adding two additional bays, maintaining this charge rate of 0.5C would definitely drive up the size of transformers, heat, passive components significantly...and utlimately cost. The idea of sharing the current is "neat" in that it gives you the option of charging all four batteries at half the rate twice the time (of two batteries). *Note that you take "just as much time" charging four batteries, two at a time, as doing the whole shebang of four at once*. Doing the latter reduces the amount of handling for times when you might want to get some sleep and can tolerate a slower charge. I like and use this flexibility.

The only thing missing is being able to charge two batteries at the slower/lower rate for those who are interested in less heating and gentler charging of the batteries. *The crux of the issue is whether the well known tradeoff of less predictable termination is introduced.* If the Panasonic charger solves this, I'll be doing a whole lot more overnight charging at lower rates and fretting less in my sleep.


Keep thinking like a desinger,
PeAK


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## PeAK (Mar 1, 2010)

Just to clarify matters regarding the manufacturers code:

The charger is referred to as the *BQ-CC01* 





​
while the bundled package that includes the charger and four batteries is referred to as the* BQ-C01*




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## EricMack (Mar 4, 2010)

Anyone planning on reviewing this charger? 


Will this become available in Silver Medal territory?


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## PeAK (Mar 12, 2010)

EricMack said:


> Anyone planning on reviewing this charger?
> 
> 
> Will this become available in Silver Medal territory?



Not sure what you mean by "Silver Medal" but if you mean Vancouver, I think yes...you should go for the *GOLD*!!!




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## EricMack (Mar 12, 2010)

Silver Medal territory = US...


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## GarageBoy (Mar 12, 2010)

What's wrong with cost cutting? If it's cheap and it works well, great. Not everyone wants the complexity of the C9000 (or the perceived complexity...)


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