# Choice of NiMH AA



## spencer (Jul 9, 2008)

I'm putting in an order at Battery Junction and am looking into getting some batteries. I want some high performing cells. These cells won't be used in super high demanding tasks. They will be mostly used to power up small lights (minimag with teralux drop-in, maybe a Nitecore D10) and the such. I will be getting some LSD cells as well but I also want some higher capacity cells. I have it narrowed down between the Tenergy and the Titanium. Is the Titanium that much of a better cell that it is worth 50% more? What do you guys recommend. I don't want to buy junk. Also any other suggestions on the LSD cell like Eneloops (I don't really need the high drain feature). Suggestions that Battery Junction carries please or stuff I can get locally (ex. eneloops).

Thanks
Spencer


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## Mr Happy (Jul 9, 2008)

I don't own any personally, but people always seem to have nice things to say about the Powerex 2700's.


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## mdocod (Jul 10, 2008)

If I had to pick between tenergy and titanium I'd go with the titanium. Tenergy cells are a mixed bag of true capacity. 

If I had to make a more general suggestion, I'd say skip the whole high capacity cell all together and build up a nice collection of good LSD cells, preferable eneloops or rebadged eneloops. Sure if you use a high capacity cell within the first few days of charging it, it will have maybe 20% more runtime, but is it worth all the hassle? The non-LSD cell will require routine maintenance cycles to hold up capacity, will wear out faster and require replacement more frequently, will have less capacity after just a few weeks of sitting around than a LSD charged at the same time. In the long run, the LSD wins hands down. High capacity cells just don't live up to what most users expect a rechargeable cell to behave like and tend to develop too many problems too quickly.

Eric


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## spencer (Jul 10, 2008)

I can get a 4 pack of Eneloops locally for $16. Is that a good price or can I get them cheaper somewhere else after shipping? I did see some of the Duracell precharged cells (with the white top) at home depot but I think they were $17 or something.

EDIT: Just looking on Paul's Finest, what about the four pack of Maha Imedion 2100mAh cells for $12.69? How do they compare to the Eneloops?


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## Black Rose (Jul 10, 2008)

spencer said:


> I can get a 4 pack of Eneloops locally for $16. Is that a good price or can I get them cheaper somewhere else after shipping?


4 for $16 is not bad. Most places I've seen in Canada tend to be $19.99 + shipping for a 4 pack.

If you have a Costco nearby (and you're a member) you can get a package of Eneloops that has 6xAA and 2xAAA for $21.97.

The Imedions have tested well compared to the Eneloops.
There is info about them in the NiMH shootout thread.


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## spencer (Jul 10, 2008)

I saw that set a couple of days ago when I was there. I forgot about it when I posted. That's a decent deal. Thanks for jogging my memory.


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## LEDninja (Jul 11, 2008)

Regular NiMH Duracell 2650 at Walmart Canada.
LSD NiMH Duracell pre-charged at Walmart Canada

My digital camera seem to like only Eneloops and Duracell Pre-charged.

If you do not need them right away keep an eye out for sales on the Canada good deals thread at CPFMP.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=170044

Silverfox has a massive NiMH battery shootout here.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/79302

EDIT
I paid C$17 for my Duracell pre-charged. Last time I looked they were down to $14.
The RayOvac Hybrids and Pure Energy Pre-charged (LSD NiMH - silver wrapper with blue trim) are battling it out at the C$10 level.
If there is a Walmart in Saskatoon check out the battery section.
I do not think it is worthwhile to buy NiMH batteries online. By the time you add postage it is more than at Walmart. Not to mention 3 weeks shipping delay if customs took an interest in the package.


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## half-watt (Jul 11, 2008)

for non-LSD NiMH, i'd say you have two choices that appear to perform better than all the others that i've used.

MaHa Powerex 2700's or Sanyo 2700's (both can be purchased at Thomas Distributing). of the two, the only one's i haven't given away are the Sanyo's. in my "left on the shelf test" which i did last year, the Sanyo's retained their charge just a wee bit better than the Powerex (i'm just talking less than or equal to 0.1 volts here, and usually less than 0.1 volts difference after both 15days and 30days on the shelf). both appeared to perform similarly in actual use.


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## Omega Man (Jul 11, 2008)

After my Sanyo 2700s and Energizer 2500s BOTH not being able to power a Fenix L1S after sitting 3 days after a full charge, I'm officially giving up on anything without LSD. My Eneloops, on the other hand, can sit months in my digicam, and still turn it on and take pics. And my cam really likes charged batteries.


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## half-watt (Jul 11, 2008)

just remembered, the Sanyo 2700's are just a wee bit too large in diameter to fit in some battery tubes.


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## MattK (Jul 11, 2008)

The Titaniums will significantly outperform the Tenergies. The Titaniums are made in the same factory as the Duracell 2650's and other famous brands. See their performance in the NimH Shootout: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/920843&postcount=1

Don't foget about our Titanium Power Enduro LSD Batteries - some of the best on the market and a great price right now:
http://www.batteryjunction.com/tpeh-taaenduro4-case.html

We also carry Sanyo 2700's and will have the full line of eneloops up in a few days.


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## spencer (Jul 11, 2008)

How many days is a few. I am planning on making an order from you this weekend or next weekend.


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## spencer (Jul 11, 2008)

I forgot this in my last post:

I don't like you guys on this forum. You convinced me that I NEED to spend more of my money:hairpull:. (I actually love you guys for giving me some good information:twothumbs)

Thanks
Spencer


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## mdocod (Jul 11, 2008)

I think Matt's suggestion for the titanium LSDs may also be worth a look if they are cheaper and cost is of major concern, I'm excited to see BatterJunctions full line of Sanyo's. They are a great dealer to deal with  Crossing my fingers that they carry some eneloops at a competitive price!


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## spencer (Jul 11, 2008)

I linked to the Titanium LSD in my first post. Now I guess it's between the Eneloop's, Maha Imedion, and the Titanium's. The only problem is that I can't find very much information on the Imedion's.


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## MattK (Jul 11, 2008)

spencer said:


> How many days is a few. I am planning on making an order from you this weekend or next weekend.



I think they're landing Monday - webmaster usually does item listings Tuesdaya and Thursday so I'm thinking Eneloops are online on Tuesday if all goes according to plan.

My advice: Don't over think this - Titanium, Sanyo, etc - so long as you're buying one of the known quality products you'll be happy. Frankly the biggest 'mistake' most folks make is cheaping out on the charger.

mdocod - we'll have eneloop AA& AAA 2 & 4 packs and the 4 pack/quick charger kit - the 2 AA/tickel charger are OOS as are the AA 8 packs. Prices, as always will be uber competetive. Thanks for the kind words.


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## spencer (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm not going to cheap out on the charger. I think I'm getting the Maha 808. Or if I do cheap out a little, I'll get the T-6278 from you which is not really a cheap charger.


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## MattK (Jul 12, 2008)

Good stuff - the charger is an important determinant in how much actual life/capacity you'll see from your cells. Something to think about is that if you're going to use a lot of AA/AAA I recommend a decidicated charger for AA/AA and a seperate universal charger.

We have a great dedicated AA/AAA charger: http://www.batteryjunction.com/8800.html
The companion universal charger version is in production now and should land in ~50-60 days. 

The BC2-HU is a proven performer and also worth consideration - probably the best value on the market: http://www.batteryjunction.com/v1ec-bc2hu.html


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## Black Rose (Jul 12, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> The RayOvac Hybrids and Pure Energy Pre-charged (LSD NiMH - silver wrapper with blue trim) are battling it out at the C$10 level.


Not anymore...Hybrids are now $14 at Wal-Mart. Prices jumped $5 a pack on July 2nd.

Duracell Pre-Charged were still at $18 here in the Ottawa area last week.

EDIT: Duracell Pre-Charged batteries are selling for $14.50 for a 4-pack at Mountain Equipment Co-op.


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## Aussie Cheese (Jul 12, 2008)

matt,

will you be getting the usb style sanyo eneloop charger with batteries?

thanks


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## MattK (Jul 12, 2008)

Never saw that - is it on the US market?


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## Aussie Cheese (Jul 12, 2008)

it is

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0018BTPKQ/?tag=cpf0b6-20

but those people dont ship overseas


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## Mr Happy (Jul 12, 2008)

On the subject of Eneloop chargers, the MQH03 as pictured here would be good to find on the US market. I wonder why it is so rare?


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## Black Rose (Jul 12, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> On the subject of Eneloop chargers, the MQH03 as pictured here would be good to find on the US market. I wonder why it is so rare?


Grab your Costco card and come to Canada....we appear to be hoarding them right now 

Very odd that they are not available/hard to find in the US.


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## coppertrail (Jul 12, 2008)

I use:

Powerex 2700 mAh AA
eneloop 2000 mAh AA

I continue to be amazed by the low self-discharge of the Powerex cells . . .


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## spencer (Jul 12, 2008)

BlackRose, do you know what charger comes with "Family Pack" of Eneloops at Costco? In this pack there are a whole bunch of AA's, maybe some AAA's, a charger, and a couple of AA to D and AA to C. Do you have this set in Ottawa and if you do, do you know what charger it is? Also, is it a decent charger?

Thanks,
Spencer


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## Black Rose (Jul 12, 2008)

The ones I've seen here have the MQH03 charger in them, which seems to be one of the better ones.

A quick way to identify it is to look at the front of the charger. It should show the two outer slots as being quick charge slots.

However, what I do not know is if the other charger than may be in these packs also indicates that. I never took a close look at the previous chargers that were in those packs.


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## HunkaBurninLove (Jul 13, 2008)

Sorry if this is a hijack, but what about the Hybrios? I've heard good things about them but haven't tried them yet and they seem to be a good price at batteryjunction.


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## chewy78 (Jul 13, 2008)

go with a lsd cell like the sanyo eneloop, or duracells lsd cell. you cant go wrong.


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## spencer (Jul 13, 2008)

I think I'm going to go with the Maha Imedion LSD and some of the Maha PowerEX 2700mAh cells. After 62 days the PowerEX cells retain about 85% of their capacity which puts them at about the same capacity as the Imedion cells start at.


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## spencer (Jul 13, 2008)

Looking here I see that the Hybrios outperform the Eneloops. Now I got it down between the Imedion's and the Hybrios. Price over performance. Which will win out? Any suggestions now?


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## Mr Happy (Jul 13, 2008)

spencer said:


> Looking here I see that the Hybrios outperform the Eneloops. Now I got it down between the Imedion's and the Hybrios. Price over performance. Which will win out? Any suggestions now?


I don't personally believe that result. There is more than one kind of cell packaged as a Hybrio. One of them is a rebadged Eneloop and has the identical performance -- this is typically available in North America. Another has vastly lower performance and is to be avoided -- also available in North America but bundled with UltraLast chargers, while the third seems to have slightly lower performance -- this last one is typically available in Europe and Australia.

When it comes to durability, cycle life and all round performance, the Eneloops have proven themselves in use. We have less information about other cells, but it would be hard to go wrong sticking with Eneloops (or rebadged versions in other brands).


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## Bones (Jul 13, 2008)

spencer said:


> BlackRose, do you know what charger comes with "Family Pack" of Eneloops at Costco? In this pack there are a whole bunch of AA's, maybe some AAA's, a charger, and a couple of AA to D and AA to C. Do you have this set in Ottawa and if you do, do you know what charger it is? Also, is it a decent charger?
> ...



Spencer, there are at least two Eneloop family packs available at Costco Canada.

One is only available online at Costco.ca, and it appears to come solely with the Sanyo MQH01 charger.

The other is only available in-store, and while it most often appears with the much newer MQH03 charger, there have been reports of displays containing both it and the older model MQH01.

It is my opinion that the MQH03 is a superior charger in all respects. I spent some time with it and posted my observations this thread.

The chargers are quite easy to differentiate, even in the package. The MQH01 is metallic silver in colour, whereas the MQH03 is pure white.

Besider offering the superior MQH03 charger, the in-store pack is also smaller and considerably less expensive.

It contains the following components for about 34 dollars CAD:

1 - MQH03 or MQH01 Charger
2 - AA to D Adapters
2 - AA to C Adapters
4 - AA Eneloop Cells
2 - AAA Eneloop Cells
1 - Folding Travel Case

To go along with this smaller family pack, however, you can also find a blister pack of six AA and two AAA Eneloops in-store for about 22 dollars CAD.


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## spencer (Jul 13, 2008)

I'm pretty sure the one I have at my Costco is the white one. 
Mr. Happy, what do you believe the cells that Battery Junction carries are? The rebadged Eneloops? Now I'm thinking Eneloops or a rebadge. I'll wait until Tuesday until Battery Junction has it's Eneloops. I will then make a decision from there. I'm leaning away from the Maha's because I would have to buy them seperatlly from an online retailer.


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## Bones (Jul 13, 2008)

spencer said:


> I think I'm going to go with the Maha Imedion LSD and some of the Maha PowerEX 2700mAh cells. After 62 days the PowerEX cells retain about 85% of their capacity which puts them at about the same capacity as the Imedion cells start at.



I stand to be corrected on this, but it's my understanding that the Imedions don't fair as well voltage wise as the Eneloop under higher drains.

As well, the thread at DPReviews containing the assessment of the Hybrios also mentions that the MH-C9000 charger being used for the reviews has problems recognizing the Imedions.

That's a bit troubling considering they're both made by MahaEnergy.

Considering you have the Eneloops bundled with a superior charger available at Costco for a fairly reasonable price, you appear to be in the envious position of being able to shop locally for the best in class.


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## spencer (Jul 13, 2008)

I took a look at the thread where you looked at the new white charger bundled with the Eneloops. That is a very good deal and I believe I have made up my mind. Costco is very good for returns so that really pushes them over the edge.

The thread where you review the new charger says there are some advantages to the older charger but it doesn't mention what those advantages are. Do you know them off the top of your head or should I post in that thread?


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## Mr Happy (Jul 13, 2008)

spencer said:


> Mr. Happy, what do you believe the cells that Battery Junction carries are?


The ones pictured look like the rebadged Eneloops. If you get some in a package that looks exactly like that, I would be almost certain of it.


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## Bones (Jul 13, 2008)

spencer said:


> ...
> The thread where you review the new charger says there are some advantages to the older charger but it doesn't mention what those advantages are. Do you know them off the top of your head or should I post in that thread?



The MQH01 can charge at a slightly faster rate than the MQH03, but I consider that advantage largely negated by item 13 in the Eneloop Fact and FAQs:



> ...
> Though it is possible to charge an eneloop battery in a 'Quick Charger', it is not recommended. We recommend charging eneloop batteries in a NiMh charger that is 2 hours or more. Charging eneloop batteries in a 'Quick Charger' can reduce the overall life of the battery.
> ...


The MQH03 will charge at exactly the two hour rate as long as at least one of the Eneloops being charged is inserted in one of the two inner bays. That will cause all bays to charge Eneloop AA and/or AAA cells at their respective .5C rates.

Conversely, if you do happen to be in a hurry, the MQH03 will also charge one or two Eneloops at exactly the one hour or 1C rate providing the inner bays are left vacant and only the outer bays are utilized.

Incidentally, I noted your reference to a MahaEnergy MH-C808M charger in an earlier posting, and unless you specifically need to charge C and D cells, suggest the MH-C9000 above the MH-C808M for its superior conditioning ability and its ability to measure cell capacity for performance matching.

Memory Express also appears to have slightly better pricing than Paul's Finest.

And I've now done my part to encourage expending far more than you probably ever intended ...


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## 1dash1 (Jul 14, 2008)

+1 on Maha Powerex 2700's. Very good quality. Moderately low self-discharge. 

IMO the best choice for any application where batteries will be recharged at least once every other month.


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## bob_ninja (Jul 14, 2008)

I ordered from Thomas Distributing. Even after shipping I still saved a bunch of money (Ottawa)
Powerex 2700 are serving me very well so far.
LSDs of course Eneloops, plus I tried some Imideons as well. All good stuff.

Anyway, the only place I would buy in Canada is Costco pack. Otherwise order from US. Just make sure not to use UPS or FedEx ground shipping (extra fees).


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## parawolfe (Jul 15, 2008)

MattK said:


> Good stuff - the charger is an important determinant in how much actual life/capacity you'll see from your cells. Something to think about is that if you're going to use a lot of AA/AAA I recommend a decidicated charger for AA/AA and a seperate universal charger.
> 
> We have a great dedicated AA/AAA charger: http://www.batteryjunction.com/8800.html
> The companion universal charger version is in production now and should land in ~50-60 days.
> ...


 
MattK,

How about some information of RCR123's? I have several lights that use 123's and would like to find rechargeables and a charger that would work with all of the lights. The lights in question are; Fenix TK10, Surefire E1L Outdoorsman, NiteCore Extreme and the Fenix P1D. I understand that some can use 3.7v while others can't use higher than 3.0v? Logistics is my main goal. I don't want a hodge podge of different batteries for different lights. Obviously, I'm not including my AA & AAA lights. Is there a charger and rechargeables that will work with the four lights above I've mentioned? And would said rechargeables give as much performance to the TK10 as it would the P1D? Or am I looking for something that doesn't exist?


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## spencer (Jul 15, 2008)

MattK said:


> I think they're landing Monday - webmaster usually does item listings Tuesdaya and Thursday so I'm thinking Eneloops are online on Tuesday if all goes according to plan.
> 
> My advice: Don't over think this - Titanium, Sanyo, etc - so long as you're buying one of the known quality products you'll be happy. Frankly the biggest 'mistake' most folks make is cheaping out on the charger.
> 
> mdocod - we'll have eneloop AA& AAA 2 & 4 packs and the 4 pack/quick charger kit - the 2 AA/tickel charger are OOS as are the AA 8 packs. Prices, as always will be uber competetive. Thanks for the kind words.


It's Tuesday and I don't see them up. When do you think they'll be on the website? Thursday?


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## Sub_Umbra (Jul 15, 2008)

spencer said:


> ...I want some high performing cells. These cells won't be used in super high demanding tasks....


If that's the case *don't pay extra for high performance cells.* I fully agree with what Mattk said about using high quality chargers. Using HQ chargers I've been able to wring years and *years* of cycles out of cheap Powerizers in Ds, AAs and AAAs in countless applications that do not demand Top Line cells. If you go that route you'll spend less, you won't feel nearly as bad when you drop one (and you will) and you'll be constantly amused that your cheaper cells are never the subject of a continual string of threads that complain about one or another hi-cap, hi-priced cell with insane self discharge rates. 

Any LSDs you buy will never reach their full life potential without good chargers.

Reading the OP I'd say buy the LSD cells, blow off the high priced cells that you've stated that you don't need and buy Powerizers in a bulk pak and put the money you saved _into a better charger._ IMO you'll be better off both in the short term and *years* downstream.

As always, YMMV.


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## MattK (Jul 15, 2008)

parawolfe said:


> MattK,
> 
> How about some information of RCR123's? I have several lights that use 123's and would like to find rechargeables and a charger that would work with all of the lights. The lights in question are; Fenix TK10, Surefire E1L Outdoorsman, NiteCore Extreme and the Fenix P1D. I understand that some can use 3.7v while others can't use higher than 3.0v? Logistics is my main goal. I don't want a hodge podge of different batteries for different lights. Obviously, I'm not including my AA & AAA lights. Is there a charger and rechargeables that will work with the four lights above I've mentioned? And would said rechargeables give as much performance to the TK10 as it would the P1D? Or am I looking for something that doesn't exist?




Because you have a few Fenix lights the 3V tenergy RCR123A's (LINK: http://www.batteryjunction.com/4parc390reli.html ) will be your best choice as their lower voltage will maintain all of the levels on your P1D. I cannot say for sure they'll work with the E1L though - Surefire lights and rechargeables is a bit of a gray area for me but there's an AWESOME sticky thread about this that seems to suggest that they'll work - I've just never tried it: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201375


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## MattK (Jul 15, 2008)

spencer said:


> It's Tuesday and I don't see them up. When do you think they'll be on the website? Thursday?



They didn't show up today and my webmaster has a backlog of work so Thursday is looking most likely - I think they're going to land tomorrow so that should work out perfectly.


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## MattK (Jul 15, 2008)

Sub_Umbra said:


> If that's the case *don't pay extra for high performance cells.* I fully agree with what Mattk said about using high quality chargers. Using HQ chargers I've been able to wring years and *years* of cycles out of cheap Powerizers in Ds, AAs and AAAs in countless applications that do not demand Top Line cells. If you go that route you'll spend less, you won't feel nearly as bad when you drop one (and you will) and you'll be constantly amused that your cheaper cells are never the subject of a continual string of threads that complain about one or another hi-cap, hi-priced cell with insane self discharge rates.
> 
> Any LSDs you buy will never reach their full life potential without good chargers.
> 
> ...



I agree except the Powerizer part...Tenergy cells are as cheap or cheaper if that's what you're after but I think our Titaniums are the right choice; they perform at the same level as the ones so much ink is spilled over (See here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/920843&postcount=1) while costing far less - instead of $3.50-4.00 per cell they're $2.50 a cell and they crush the bargain cells. 

Hmm, I need to get more ink spilled about our Titanium batteries - they come out of the same factories as those other brands - we just don't mark them up 3-400% nor do we buy them from middlemen.


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## spencer (Jul 15, 2008)

Now which charger should I buy if I don't buy the Costco Eneloops and charger? I was thinking the BC2-HU because it can do AAA/AA/C/D/9V but since I don't yet have any of those cells I guess it could only need AA/AAA capability. What is the consensus on a charger from Battery Junction?


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## Mr Happy (Jul 16, 2008)

Personally, I would get either the Duracell CEF21 or CEF23, mainly because they are available at a good price from B&M's and have good features.


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## MattK (Jul 16, 2008)

BC2-HU if you want a universal for larger AA/AAA the 8800 is the best or the CH-V6988 or V7988 offer a great value - the V4000 is an excellent budget choice.


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## parawolfe (Jul 16, 2008)

MattK said:


> Because you have a few Fenix lights the 3V tenergy RCR123A's (LINK: http://www.batteryjunction.com/4parc390reli.html ) will be your best choice as their lower voltage will maintain all of the levels on your P1D. I cannot say for sure they'll work with the E1L though - Surefire lights and rechargeables is a bit of a gray area for me but there's an AWESOME sticky thread about this that seems to suggest that they'll work - I've just never tried it: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201375


 
MattK,

Thanks for the help. I just ordered a dozen primary CR123A's from you so I'll wait until I use them up. By then you should also have a 4 pack of AAA Eneloops I need to get too. Thanks again.


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## Sub_Umbra (Jul 16, 2008)

I find it refreshing to read some discussion now and again about somthing other than top of the line cells. I started using secondary cells in the early eighties and things are so much better for the consumer now...


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## MattK (Jul 16, 2008)

Yup - though I want to point out that if you look at SilverFox's round-ups the Titanium cells are always up with the so called 'top of the line' because the Titanium batteries are top of the line cells - they just don't go through as many hands nor are they marked up so much. 

Our AA's are in the top 5: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/920843&postcount=1

Our very well respected CR123A rank near the top for high discharge rates:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/67078

Now we just need Tom to review AAA, C, D and 9V. 

I find that many people equate high prices with superior performance and while, 'you get what you pay for,' often rings true to some extent there are also many times a premium is paid for a perception of superiority that is not borne out by the facts. This is why we needs lots of independent testing.


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## MattK (Jul 17, 2008)

Eneloop batteries arrived today - they're the webmasters first priority tomorrow.


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## alfreddajero (Jul 17, 2008)

Good thing i came across this post....i was actually going to put an order in for the tenergy's, decided to get the titaniums now......


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## VegasF6 (Jul 17, 2008)

MattK said:


> I agree except the Powerizer part...Tenergy cells are as cheap or cheaper if that's what you're after but I think our Titaniums are the right choice; they perform at the same level as the ones so much ink is spilled over (See here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/920843&postcount=1) while costing far less - instead of $3.50-4.00 per cell they're $2.50 a cell and they crush the bargain cells.
> 
> Hmm, I need to get more ink spilled about our Titanium batteries - they come out of the same factories as those other brands - we just don't mark them up 3-400% nor do we buy them from middlemen.


 

Matt, are you talking about the Titanium 2700? I would be interested in more details on the Titanium Power Enduro LSD 2100. I haven't been able to find any independant reviews of them. In particular I would be most interested in performance at 1 amp and higher levels up to say 3 amps vs Sanyo's. Without giving up to much information, can you revel the country of origin?


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## alfreddajero (Jul 17, 2008)

Those are the ones that i was planning on ordering in a bit......i would also like to know.


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## pedalinbob (Jul 17, 2008)

Interesting thread with some great advice.

I have the Vanson BC2-HU--wonderful charger. It isn't the fastest, but it has never harmed a cell, and it helps them to last a very long time.

I agree completely with Matt and Sub: get a good charger, and consider the LSD batteries. Even though my charger isn't fast (it isn't particularly slow either), it doesn't have to be because I have a small fleet of Rayovac LSD batteries.
Next time, I will get some Titaniums from Matt.

I also have some Kodak 2500s. They definitely last longer than the Rayovacs, and I sometimes use them when I need the extra capacity.


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## alfreddajero (Jul 17, 2008)

Hey matt I just put in my order for the Titanium LSD's and have a question to ask you....why is it cheaper to get them in the 4 pk with the included case then buy them individually.....


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## Sub_Umbra (Jul 17, 2008)

I will also probably go with some of Matt's Titanium Enduros in both AA and AAA next time. I've been really pleased with everything I've bought from him.


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## spencer (Jul 17, 2008)

I see your Eneloops are up. Do you know what charger comes with these cells?

My biggest (and probably only) complaint about your site is that there is a lack of technical information. Ex. Not stating what charger comes with the Eneloops, not stating max charge and discharge rates on cells. 

Anyway, I'm happy to see the cells up. Cheaper than Cosco.


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## Mr Happy (Jul 17, 2008)

spencer said:


> I see your Eneloops are up. Do you know what charger comes with these cells?


The picture and description seem to correspond to the MQN06, except that the charge time for 4 AA Eneloops is indicated as 4 hours whereas Sanyo's product manual for the MQN06 says 10 hours (maybe more like 8 in practice).

Maybe Sanyo keep coming up with new products and this is yet another new charger?


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## MattK (Jul 17, 2008)

VegasF6 - Our Enduro cells are made in China in the same factory that made the original Hybrios and now makes the Duracell pre-charged. One of the best factories in the world.There's some excellent independent test data here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/119003

alfreddajero, thanks!  The 4 batteries ina case is a special - normally it's the same price as4 individual cells. We're trying to increase awareness of the product - thuis the home page positioning and special price.

pedalinbob - thanks for your support I use a BC2-HU, a V6988 and an 8800 at home (I have a 3.5 year old and a lot of toys to power - mine and hers)

Sub umbra - you won't be disappointed.

Spencer - My webmaster had a family emergency and I remembered my promise and listed them myself. I didn't have a ton of time to find data on the enleloops. For our Titanium cells we're coming to the end of a major project to create/list data sheets on the website - give us a few weeks and they'll all be linked on the relevant items.
The eneloop charger pictured is the right photo but the package did not list relevant technical specs and I was too dumb to look on the Sanyo site - googling the charger with the model number kept coming up with the wrong item - I think Sanyo re-used the model number. Anyway, I have corrected the details on the website from the PDF on the Sanyo site.


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## alfreddajero (Jul 17, 2008)

Cool....is there anyway you can check up on my order...lol....and next time i do plan on using the coupon code.....i was in a bit of hurry because the wifey was on her way home....lmao. I will be sure to order more before the special price goes away.


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## spencer (Jul 17, 2008)

MattK said:


> Spencer - My webmaster had a family emergency and I remembered my promise and listed them myself. I didn't have a ton of time to find data on the enleloops. For our Titanium cells we're coming to the end of a major project to create/list data sheets on the website - give us a few weeks and they'll all be linked on the relevant items.


I appreciate your effort to get these up without your webmaster. I like people who keep their word. Great prices on the Eneloops. You can expect an order coming this weekend for some Eneloops, some various NiCad cells for old packs that need replacing, a charger, some Titaniums, and the Terralux minimag upgrade.:twothumbs


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## MattK (Jul 17, 2008)

alfreddajero - on hold actually - not a big problem. You've got a PM coming. I adjusted for the coupon ..

Spencer - You're welcome. A man is only as good as his word, right?


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## Black Rose (Jul 17, 2008)

I was just looking at the batteries on Battery junction and noticed that the Titanium LSD AA cells look very very similar to the ROV Hybrids.

The image of the bottom of the cell looks identical to me.


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## MattK (Jul 17, 2008)

In the beginning there were only 2 factories making LSD's - our factory and Sanyo.


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## alfreddajero (Jul 17, 2008)

Hey matt let me know if thats the correct one......already went to wallyworld and picked up some Duracell lsd's.......


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## Black Rose (Jul 18, 2008)

MattK said:


> In the beginning there were only 2 factories making LSD's - our factory and Sanyo.


Thanks.


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## MattK (Jul 18, 2008)

Black Rose knows his batteries! Want to move to Connecticut?


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## VegasF6 (Jul 18, 2008)

Wayne, that test data on the Titanium Enduro is exactly what I wanted to see, thanks. There are so many battery threads it is hard to keep up. I didn't realize the Enduro had been around that long either, I thought they were a newer cell than that. Are they batch dated?

I think I will have to pick up a pack or 2, although the performance appears to be just slightly less than the Eneloop, the cost offsets that, and if you figure watt hour per dollar, they are a real winner 

Too bad I just picked up my Fenix TK10, I would love to add a TK11 to my order but I guess I have to draw the line some where, and my wallet it looking pretty empty


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## MattK (Jul 18, 2008)

Wayne? LOL

No, no batch dates...I've never seen date coded NiMh cells that I can recall actually. 

If a TK11 is too much to spend right now one of my favorite new lights is under $14 - http://www.batteryjunction.com/titanium-spotlight-bulk.html :devil:


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## Hollow Man (Jul 18, 2008)

MattK said:


> Black Rose knows his batteries! Want to move to Connecticut?



I didn't realize you were in CT. Do you have a B&M store, or just run an Internet business?

-HM


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## alfreddajero (Jul 18, 2008)

I put in an order for 12 Titanium lsd's from Batteryjunction and had a bit of a problem with the billing address......i thought it wasnt going to go through because of it so i went to walmart that night and picked up 2 packs of 4 Duracell lsd's, still unopened just in case i wasnt able to find the billing address. Matt was in constant communication with me via PM's and he put it through....which too me is great because now i have 3packs of 4 for the price of two that i paid at wallyworld. Why get 8 when i can get 12.....thanks Matt.


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## MattK (Jul 18, 2008)

We're primarily a warehouse based business but we welcome visitors to the warehouse, especially CPF members, LEO's, Paramedics/Firefighters etc.

The best time to visit is W-F after 2 PM and it's always appreciated if you call in advance - the number is on our contact page. We can accomodate you outside of these hours as well it's just that this is when things are quieter and we can spend more time with you.



Hollow Man said:


> I didn't realize you were in CT. Do you have a B&M store, or just run an Internet business?
> 
> -HM



alfreddajero - glad I could resolve that for you, thanks and enjoy!


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## VegasF6 (Jul 18, 2008)

:thinking::thinking::thinking:


MattK said:


> Wayne? LOL
> 
> No, no batch dates...I've never seen date coded NiMh cells that I can recall actually.
> 
> If a TK11 is too much to spend right now one of my favorite new lights is under $14 - http://www.batteryjunction.com/titanium-spotlight-bulk.html :devil:


 
Doh, not Wayne. Matt. Well, it wasn't an insult, just a slip of the mind 

I dunno where I would plug that light in on my motorcycle though :thinking: 

I was under the impression they had batch dates on the eneloops, but I don't imagine it is that important. Although it did turn out to be on the Hybrios where apparently the quality went down, but you didn't need a date to see the difference. 

Since we are here BS'ing, any comments on your Tenergy 2600 protected 18650?


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## MattK (Jul 18, 2008)

Hybrio changed factories - you can tell from the packaging and end caps. 

The Tenergy's are a good product - capacity over-rated of course but still a solid performer. We'd sold thousands of them and with very few complaints of failures I have to rate them a good product - I just wish the facotry would make them with a button top for us...


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## Black Rose (Jul 19, 2008)

VegasF6 said:


> I was under the impression they had batch dates on the eneloops, but I don't imagine it is that important.


The month and year are embossed onto the cell wrapper on the Eneloops.

There is also some kind of code embossed into the label of my Rayovac Hybrids, but I have no clue what it represents (SYM-Y).


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## Woods Walker (Jul 19, 2008)

MattK said:


> We're primarily a warehouse based business but we welcome visitors to the warehouse, especially CPF members, LEO's, Paramedics/Firefighters etc.
> 
> The best time to visit is W-F after 2 PM and it's always appreciated if you call in advance - the number is on our contact page. We can accomodate you outside of these hours as well it's just that this is when things are quieter and we can spend more time with you.
> 
> ...


 
I am in CT too. Grew up here. Nice state but bad tick issues. Mark I want a good recharger for AA/AAA LSD. Do you sell the Powerex MH-9000 charger or something like it? Right now I use a little 2 battery AA/AAA charger that can plug into my computer or wall. Sold by Energizer. However it does not do all the cool stuff that others say is good but I don't fully understand.


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## divine (Jul 19, 2008)

MattK said:


> The Titaniums will significantly outperform the Tenergies. The Titaniums are made in the same factory as the Duracell 2650's and other famous brands. See their performance in the NimH Shootout: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/920843&postcount=1
> 
> Don't foget about our Titanium Power Enduro LSD Batteries - some of the best on the market and a great price right now:
> http://www.batteryjunction.com/tpeh-taaenduro4-case.html
> ...


Will those Titanium LSD's be on sale two weeks from now? I'm taking a two week vacation and don't want them to get delivered while I'm away. :thinking:


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## alfreddajero (Jul 19, 2008)

I cant wait to get my package.....already took the energizers out of the flashlights that will be using the lsd's........i only keep a few in my case that use lsd's. I ordered 12 for the price of two 4 pack Duracell lsds which in my book is a darn good price....plan to order more before the price goes up as well.


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## etc (Jul 19, 2008)

MattK said:


> The BC2-HU is a proven performer and also worth consideration - probably the best value on the market: http://www.batteryjunction.com/v1ec-bc2hu.html



+1


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## MattK (Jul 20, 2008)

Woods Walker: We don't sell Powerex but we do sell the quite similar La Crosse - for some reason they're not listed right now though I'm sure they're in stock - we'll get that resolved on Tuesday. I hightly recommend this charger though - toys, extremely fast, excellent quality and you won't need to refer to the owners manual to figure out how to use it
http://www.batteryjunction.com/8800.html

divine - the sale is ultimate quantity not date driven but I expect to keep them on sale through the end of the month


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## Bones (Jul 20, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> The month and year are embossed onto the cell wrapper on the Eneloops.
> ...



For clarification purposes, the Eneloop uses a _YY-MM-??_ date code, ie: _06-06-IN_ for _2006-June-??_. I'm not sure what the last two characters (_IN_) denote.

The code is just impressed longitudinally into the clear wrapper, so it can be difficult to see. I've found a bright light that can throw a hard shadow helps. It can usually be found on the back of the retail package as well. In these cases, a full year code has been used, ie: _2006-06._

To find out when your Sanyo charger was built, see this post by Mr Happy.


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## baterija (Jul 20, 2008)

Wow I knew I should have started reading this thread before. Some good discussions. That's what I get for reading the title and moving on.


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## alfreddajero (Jul 21, 2008)

Hey matt just wanted you to know that i got the batts......fast shipping even using ground........there on the MRC Superbrain now.....charging at .5amps, just topping them off. Thanks again.


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## MattK (Jul 22, 2008)

My pleasure - enjoy!


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## Turbo Guy (Mar 27, 2009)

I am aware tht the Titanum Power Enduro 2100s have done extremely well in test conducted by Silver Fox and others. I am also aware that they are well liked and are priced well below that "high inked" brand. Their rather appealing price of 4 for $6 comapared to 4 for $10 along with the good reviews convienced me to give them a try.

OK now the question. Is it normal for these to require a number of forming,break-in ,refresh cycles to come into their own? All of my other LSD cells,Eneloop and Hybrids delivered 90% plus of rated capacity after one cycle but my Titaniums seem to be much slower coming around.
I found another thread/ post with results much closer to my initial results.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2788734&postcount=3

see post #21 there also.


I have both a LaCross BC-9000 and a Maha C-9000. I first did a discharge at 500 mA then a charge at 1000 mA followed by another 500mA discharge and noticed lower than expected capacities . I am currently running cycles on them at 1000 charge / 500 discharge. At the end of the first cycle(well really second) of the first 6 finished 
C-900 1359 / 1405 / 1270 / 1531 
C-9000 1263 / 1078


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## Black Rose (Mar 27, 2009)

Turbo Guy said:


> I am aware tht the Titanum Power Enduro 2100s have done extremely well in test conducted by Silver Fox and others. I am also aware that they are well liked and are priced well below that "high inked" brand. Their rather appealing price of 4 for $6 comapared to 4 for $10 along with the good reviews convienced me to give them a try.
> 
> OK now the question. Is it normal for these to require a number of forming,break-in ,refresh cycles to come into their own?


Yes it does take a fair number of cycles before they come into their own.

I think it took about a dozen charge cycles on the C9000 (break-in, cycle, refresh & analyze) before the ones I have achieved capacities that I was happy with.


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## Mr Happy (Mar 27, 2009)

All NiMH cells need a proper forming/break-in process before they will perform to specification.

I think we reached a tentative hypothesis in that other thread that while "quality" cells are formed by the manufacturer before shipping, this is a time consuming process and manufacturers of cheaper cells can save costs by skipping this step. We suspected therefore that the Power Enduros are shipped unformed and it is left to the consumer to break them in.

It is valuable that you have added further data to the body of evidence supporting this conclusion.


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## alfreddajero (Mar 27, 2009)

Im very happy with the Titaniums, i didnt write down the numbers of all 12 but i do remember getting over the 2100 rated capacity........cant remember how many cycles i put them through.


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## moldyoldy (Mar 28, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> All NiMH cells need a proper forming/break-in process before they will perform to specification.
> 
> I think we reached a tentative hypothesis in that other thread that while "quality" cells are formed by the manufacturer before shipping, this is a time consuming process and manufacturers of cheaper cells can save costs by skipping this step. We suspected therefore that the Power Enduros are shipped unformed and it is left to the consumer to break them in.
> 
> It is valuable that you have added further data to the body of evidence supporting this conclusion.



That hypothesis is consistent with my observations as well. I have had plenty of cases where I have to run 2-3 complete "Refresh" cycles on my BC-700 or BC-900 chargers before the cell capacity comes up close to something reasonable. On my -9000, I use the maximum 12 cycle refresh count. That means days of run time on the chargers! I am comparing the Maha AA/AAA series with say, the LaCrosse or the iPowerUS cells.


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## Turbo Guy (Mar 28, 2009)

From post#88



> CB-900 -- 1359 / 1405 / 1270 / 1531


 
Saga continued

At end of cycle #3 on the CB 900 in test mode 1000/500

1311 / 1317 / 1168 / 1720

Big improvement in cell#4 ,little drop in cell #1.Cell #2 &#3 .:candle:

Four different cells on C-9000 Refresh three cycles,1000 / 500

1263 / 1078 / 1409 / 1498
1406 / 1267 /1464 / 1449
1468 / 1432 / 1403 /1499 

Of interest Maha C-9000 missed peak on cell#2 on the first cycle and cell #3 on the third cycle. I pulled each of these when I saw 2600 plus on the display. 

Post indicating better experience than mine to date are encouraging and I have not given up on these yet but I will say I have been disapointed. I thought the main idea behind LSD such as these was charge and use and not have to perorm a lot of PM. I sure hope once they are formed that they do not require monthly cycles just to keep them in shape.

These 8 cells are taking a break while I run test on 8 addational ones. These addational cells were first cyled in series as an 8 cell two times on a hobby charger at 100 / 500. Results were not very promising but perhaps CB-900 and C-9000 test will be better.


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## Mr Happy (Mar 28, 2009)

At times like these you have to figure out whether your time is worth more than the additional cost of slightly more expensive cells. It's one of those little rules of life: cheap things tend to come at a price...


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## Turbo Guy (Mar 28, 2009)

Lucky for me I am retired and love to test batteries.:wave:

If my time was limited as with most people then Sanyo Eneloops at $1 ea. per cell addational cost would have been a bargin. Fact is I recently purchased 32 AA Eneloops, I have 2 year old Rayovac Hybrides still in great shap,a buch on Sanyo 2500s,2700,Energizer 2300 and have no pressing need of these Titanium Enduros. I had only read mostly glowing reports about them and all the Titaniums tested by SilverFox did extremly well. 

At this stage it is more of a challange than anything else. I will say that the 8 cells I cycled on my Hyperion 720i in an 8 cell holder are doing better than the cells cycled in the LaCross and the Maha, go figure. All cycles at 1000 / 500. 8 cells cycled in holder two cyles then test mode in BC-900 1435-1582 mAh. ones in C-9000 Refresh 1370-1613 mAh.

Most users would never be aware of any difference using these cells but then most do not test cells / batteries the way I do.


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## SilverFox (Mar 28, 2009)

Hello Charles,

The reason you are seeing better results with your hobby charger is that it has a different high voltage cut off. I believe it is around 2 volts, or somewhere in that neighborhood. The BC-900 is set for about 1.5 volts and the C-9000 ends at 1.47 volts.

Those cells seem to develop a higher internal resistance during storage, and they are a few years old now. They may come back into shape with cycles, but you will find they respond quicker with the hobby charger than with the others.

Near the end of the charge, what per cell voltage are you seeing with the Hyperion?

I am working on an Eneloop cell that was coming in at around 1300 mAh. It is a new cell. When I charged it on my Schulze, I noticed that the voltage was around 1.78 volts. The next discharge had the capacity up to a little over 1800 mAh. I will have to see what a few more cycles do.

Tom


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## Turbo Guy (Mar 28, 2009)

Hi Tom,

My Hyp. 720i peaks at around 1.6 per cell average for 8 cells . I used it to cycle the second group of 8 cells while the BC-900 and C-9000 were tied up with the other 8 cells. Results of 8 cells cycled using 720i and then .

BC-900 1582 / 1444 / 1435 / 1496 
C-9000 1613 / 1402 / 1459 / 1370

FWIW My 720i does a better job on NiMH AAs than any other charger I own and you know I own a bunch of chargers. If they do not continue to improve I will take them down to 0.6V each one at a time and do a C-9000 Braek-In cycle on them. 16 cells ,4 at a time times 39 hours.:candle:
Glad my chargers are on battery backup.





> Those cells seem to develop a higher internal resistance during storage, and they are a few years old now.


 
Well I just purchased mine and have not seen any date coding. Guess I should do a few singles and check IR.

First couple of cells I have checked 63 mOhm and 56 mOhm. which off hand seems very good. An Eneloop checked a few weeks ago was 86 mOhm. 
Tom FYI single Enduro peaked at 1.563 volts on 720i @1A charge rate.

3-29-09 11PM Update: I kept cycling and they keep improving.
Number 1-8 Test cycle on BC-900 1000 / 500

Now------ 1593 / 1812 / 1526 / 1916 /1982 / 2008 / 1775 / 2003

1st cycle 1359 / 1405 / 1270 / 1531 / 1263 / 1078 / 1409 / 1498


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## Turbo Guy (Apr 5, 2009)

Well I think I will give up on these cells ever being LSD. I guess they will work as charge and go ones much the same as what I consider ready for the recycle bin cells. 

I keep reading mostly good reports on these and I gave them what I believe is more than a fair chance. All have been cycled until their capacity stopped increasing (8 to 15 cycles). They were left to rest a couple of days then toped off. Some only took few hundred mAh to top off but some took much more as in 1164 mAh.. After topping off they set for one day then the following results. 
Cell R2 lost 341 mAh in one day.
Cell #4 lost 649 mAh in one day. 
Based on capacities obtained during cycling.

Eneloop on graph just for reference and was only cycled once and has a 07-07 date code.

You win some and you loose some.


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## Turbo Guy (Apr 12, 2009)

Bet most of growing tired of my Yitanium Enduro saga post but here is a min update any way.

I took cells #1 & #3 charged them as a pair on my Hyperion 720i (hobby charger) set at 3mV/cell ,2 amp. charge rate with 200 mA trickle. I let them trickle for approx. 2 hours after EOC (end of charge / peak) . Next I let them set for four days. I then did a 1A dischrge on one of my CBAIIs and not only did they maintain volts under load very well they delivered,are you ready for this,1654 mAh.. I would gladly post a graph but during a senior moment I deleted the test instead of the note which I was going to reposition.

Performance is still below my Eneloops and Hybrids but a major improvement over out of the packages. Maybe they just need another 20 cycles or so. I have ran across a few cells)Nicads) years ago which took close to 50 cycles to from.


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## Sub_Umbra (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm still here.


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## Black Rose (Apr 14, 2009)

Me too.

I have some of those cells and find it interesting why some work better than others. 

Alfreds seem to be really good, mine are not bad, but Turbo Guy's have been rather troublesome. 

Sounds like that 2A paired charge kick started something or finally woke them up, though they are still down a bit on capacity.


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## Turbo Guy (Apr 18, 2009)

Two cells Red #3 and Blk #3. charged at 2A on Hyp.720i and left setting for 10 days,discharged on Maha C9000 @ 1000 mA ,capacities 1737 and 1680. 

Looks like these are good cells that just needed a lot of cycling and that charging at 2A and discharging at 1A works as well or better that 1A and .5 A.,sure is a lot faster anyway.


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## alfreddajero (Apr 18, 2009)

Thats what i charged mine at when i first got them.....charge a 2amps and discharged at 1amp. I think i did 5cycles and let the cells rest for a day or two before i did the break in.


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## Turbo Guy (Apr 18, 2009)

If it works then ......................
SOP is to do the Brek-in first.


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## Black Rose (Apr 18, 2009)

I'm going to give mine the 2A/1A treatment on the C9000 and see what that does to them...might give them that final push they need.


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## alfreddajero (Apr 18, 2009)

Opppssss......sorry man i was tired and i just got off work when i posted this.....i do the break in first and then let it rest a day or two, then i go through with the cycles.


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## Turbo Guy (Apr 18, 2009)

I often post when my though processes are less than crystal clear.

I realize that the C9000 was designed by someone smarter than me with a degree and all but I for one wish you could just use the C/10 charge section and then have it stop. Yes I realize that you could set a timer for 16.5 hours after the start. 

My reasoning is that I like to do a C/10 charge for 16 hours then do a 0.5C discharge. I know it works like it does because it is a standard and should yeild industry standard capacitie test but my feeling are that capacity testing on a new or neglected cells is really a waste of time.

Might as well do a C10 charge for 16 hour followed by a 0.5C discharge then 1C and 0.5c discharges for a few or more cycles then do a 1C charge followed with a 0.2C trickle for an hour,let them rest an hour then do a 0.2C discharge if you are interested in industry standard capacities. I am only interested in capacity at the load I will be using them at.


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## Bones (Apr 19, 2009)

According to SilverFox, one of the most important purposes of the break-in or 'forming' charge is to thoroughly distribute the electrolyte throughout the cell. This is especially critical for cells that are going to be subjected to higher rates of charge and discharge. Otherwise, areas of the cell not fully saturated can apparently develop hot-spots that can permantly damage the cell.

On used cells, the slow, deep discharge portion of the forming charge is also supposed to break up crystalline growths which cause increased resistance and form dendrites that can perforate the separator and cause permanent shorts.

Based on these factors, I tend to increase the number of break-in cycles on lessor quality and very abused cells and especially on cells which have been idled for extended periods of time. Only then do I crank up the charge/discharge rates.


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## Turbo Guy (Apr 19, 2009)

> On used cells, the slow, deep discharge portion of the forming charge is also supposed to break up crystalline growths which cause increased resistance and form dendrites that can perforate the separator and cause permanent shorts.
> 
> Based on these factors, I tend to increase the number of break-in cycles on lessor quality and very abused cells and especially on cells which have been idled for extended periods of time. Only then do I crank up the charge/discharge rates.


 
Not here to argue with Tom and his followers.

IMO slow charging / discharging does nothing much to break up crystals.
I also co9nsider the cost of the cells are if the time / effort is worth it.
Case in point I purchased Eneloops for $2.50 each (32 of them) and then saw these Enduros for %1.50 so figured I would use them in less demanding aplications and save my Eneloops.

Turns out it has taken weeks of cycling these bargin cells to save a few bucks . Well I purchased 16 of them so saving $16 has required my chargers to run for hundreds of hours.

In most every case it is less expensive in both time and money to purchase the best / most expensive cells you can find.


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## Hitthespot (Apr 19, 2009)

Turbo Guy said:


> Case in point I purchased Eneloops for $2.50 each (32 of them) and then saw these Enduros for %1.50 so figured I would use them in less demanding aplications and save my Eneloops.
> 
> Turns out it has taken weeks of cycling these bargin cells to save a few bucks . Well I purchased 16 of them so saving $16 has required my chargers to run for hundreds of hours.
> 
> In most every case it is less expensive in both time and money to purchase the best / most expensive cells you can find.


 
Not what I wanted to hear. I have around 16 Eneloops and still come up short every now and then. The xbox alone seems to use up AA's faster than you can say, "need more batteries Dad." I just ordered 8 of the Titanium Enduro's based on some of what I read around here. With shipping I only saved a couple of dollars over what I could have picked up 8 more Eneloops locally. I do have a C9000 Charger but the thought of running it contiuously for a couple of extra mah's doesn't exactly thrill me. We'll see what kind of luck I have with them.

I ordered the 2700 mah Powerex batteries with my MH-C9000 battery charger and I find these batteries useless. I placed a set in my camera bag as back up and after three weeks they were dead. Having to charge them everytime before I use them somehow defeats the purpose for me. I will never buy any AA or AAA battery that is not LSD.

Bill


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## Black Rose (Apr 19, 2009)

For the AA Titanium Enduros I have, it took a break-in cycle and around 14 or 15 cycle mode (1A charge/0.5A discharge) runs on the C9000 before their capacities increased enough to satisfy me.

I'm running a set of 4 at 2A charge/1A discharge right now to see if that helps.


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## alfreddajero (Apr 19, 2009)

Cool let us know how that goes.


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## Turbo Guy (Apr 19, 2009)

First of my Titaniums were on sale so may have been old stock. Most were only 1000 to 1400 after the first cycle. Twenty cycles latter most were 01700 to 2100. After setting for 10 days I checked 2 and they were 1737 / 1680 as per C-9000 @ 1A discharge. Next day I checked 4 more charged at same time and three were 1700 to 1750 but 1 was 1450. 
My Eneloops are better than 1700 after three weeks and were only cycled once.


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## Hitthespot (Apr 19, 2009)

Your findings are OK for me. I can live with 1700-2100. None of my applications are critical. I am more interested in having them work when I need them. I use them mostly for remotes, game controllers. My most critical would be for my GPS, Camera, Flashlights. I always carry Energizer L91's as backup for my GPS when in the field. Now I would also be dissapointed if they only take say 40-70% as many charges as the eneloops.

I guess only time will tell what Kind of luck I will have with the Titaniums. I have to admit, the eneloop batteries are fantastic. I hope trying to save a buck doesn't dissapoint me, but it usually does.

Bill


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## Black Rose (Apr 19, 2009)

The Enduros that I currently have on the charger were last charged on Dec 24/08.

They have had sporadic use in battery operated toothbrushes over the last 4 months and each had approx 1200 mAh capacity remaining when discharged at 1A. 

This particular set of cells were about 1800 mAh when charged, so they only lost 600 mAh (approx. 8% per month) from sporadic use and sitting over the last 4 months.


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## Black Rose (Apr 19, 2009)

alfreddajero said:


> Cool let us know how that goes.


The cells I have didn't seem to appreciate a 2A charge & a 1A discharge.

According to the C9000 the capacity dropped about 70 mAh per cell, but that is probably related to the 1A discharge.

With a 500 mA discharge they would probably report similar capacities to what I saw on their last cycle in December 08.


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## alfreddajero (Apr 19, 2009)

Damn sorry to hear man.....I guess it would be best to get top quality cells from now on......which is what Turbo Guy said. I plan on getting some duraloops this weekend since i saw a 6 pack of them for 11bones.


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## nmos (Jun 25, 2009)

FWIW I have 24 of the Titaniums and have been having better luck with a slower 200 & 500ma rate on my bc-900 and then letting them trickle for a couple of hours after finishing. I follow that with a Test at 1000/500ma. The total time to get them into a useable state is probably similar to you guys cycling them at higher rates but I'm getting there in fewer cycles. Of my most recent 12, 8 were above 1700mah (and 5 of those are above 1900mah) after 1-2 of these cycles but the remaining 4 are being stuborn.


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## Sub_Umbra (Jun 25, 2009)

I bought a bunch of AA and AAA Titanium Enduros a few months ago. One of my Accumanager 2020s died right around then so I also ordered one of the MD 3000 chargers ($41.95) with the cells. I've been using the MD 3000 to discharge each cell prior to charging after reading Black Rose's post about increased capacity after a dozen cycles with these cells.

I'm probably not at a dozen cycles yet but I'm already happy with the cells and charger. I have no way of accurately quantifying my results other than to say that in some tasks we notice that the cells *hold up longer* than they did when they were new. I had a few missed terminations in the very beginning but that seems to have stopped pretty quickly.


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## alfreddajero (Jun 25, 2009)

Mine are still going strong.....i use a couple for my lights that i edc and they do perform well. It was the best 6bones per pack of 4 that i have spent.


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## etc (Jun 25, 2009)

I have both Powerex 2700 mAh and Eneloops.

Supposedly LSD is great, but I have actually never had the chance to use the LSD feature of the Eneloops, maha has always worked pretty well for me no matter how long it seats. I think the break-even point is about 3 months, from that point on the eneloop has advantages.

Now my Powerex cells are 2 years old and almost all are failing...


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## thedeske (Jun 27, 2009)

Turbo Guy said:


> Turns out it has taken weeks of cycling these bargin cells to save a few bucks . Well I purchased 16 of them so saving $16 has required my chargers to run for hundreds of hours.



This lesson holds true for many things, but denial creeps in and hides the off switch


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