# Surefire UM2 Ultra



## kkina (Oct 30, 2015)

Does anyone know the deal on its release? On again, off again. About to be released, SHOT Show, nothing, another SHOT Show 2015, release to be "realistically" Q2. Q2 of what frikkin' year??!! (It's in the 2015 catalog).

I've owned the original U2, only got rid of it because the max output (140 lumens) is low according to today's fast-moving standards. Great little light otherwise.

I've emailed SF a couple times, can't get a definitive answer.

Anyone know what the deal is?


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## marinemaster (Oct 31, 2015)

I liked the original U2 but it had little utility for me, too much of a spotlight. Otherwise was great.
Waiting for the new U2 but I'm afraid it will be in $300 range.


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## kkina (Oct 31, 2015)

I'm OK with Surefire prices, as I don't own that many flashlights. But hard to buy something they don't release!


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## kkina (Oct 31, 2015)




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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Oct 31, 2015)

I think I've bought either five or six U2's in years past. I gave two away to relatives and modded one with help from some posts here on CPF.

I've also got a UB3T and a Kroma Mil-Spec with the Hall Effect selector ring, I would sure be interested in a UM2 once they get the bugs worked out. :thumbsup:

The $300 dollar range would be a reasonable guess for the UM2 price in my opinion.


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## tab665 (Nov 1, 2015)

i never understood from that video why have such a large TIR to make it a combo of flood and spot. could achieve that with a smaller head.


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## kkina (Nov 1, 2015)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> I would sure be interested in a UM2 once they get the bugs worked out.


Are they working out bugs, or is there some other reason for the long delay?


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## kkina (Nov 1, 2015)

tab665 said:


> i never understood from that video why have such a large TIR to make it a combo of flood and spot. could achieve that with a smaller head.


Not sure why, either, but it's not a deal-breaker for me. I plan to holster and attach to my belt when needed, and it will not be an EDC light (I use a Fenix E11 for that).


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## Minimoog (Nov 2, 2015)

I have got one of the very earliest U2's - serial number is A0064* and have been using it with an IMR 18650 (they go in via the top). I would really be up for a newer version as suddenly 100 Lumens does not seem enough. Never thought I would say that!

The feel and operation of the U2 really is perfect for my use and the rotary setting has never let me down.


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## WarriorOfLight (Nov 3, 2015)

When I saw this thread I was thinking SF announced the UM2 now, since this light is since a couple of yeat´rs in the yearly brochure... 

I'm sure the UM2 could be a great light. I have 4 U2 Ultra (two old one and 2 new one), it is one of the best SF lights. I'm waiting for a U2 Ultra update since years...


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## jgunner1313 (Aug 17, 2016)

looks like armsunlimited has them and released them, I called them up and they claim to have gotten the exclusive from surefire

https://www.armsunlimited.com/SureFire-Baby-Dominator-Variable-LED-Flashlight-p/um2-a-bk.htm


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 17, 2016)

jgunner1313 said:


> looks like armsunlimited has them and released them, I called them up and they claim to have gotten the exclusive from surefire
> 
> https://www.armsunlimited.com/SureFire-Baby-Dominator-Variable-LED-Flashlight-p/um2-a-bk.htm



A few days ago this listing had a significant discount on the price. Maybe they did get the exclusive, looks like only list price is posted now. 



marinemaster said:


> I liked the original U2 but it had little utility for me, too much of a spotlight. Otherwise was great.
> Waiting for the new U2 but I'm afraid it will be in $300 range.





Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> The $300 dollar range would be a reasonable guess for the UM2 price in my opinion.



The list price is indeed just under $300 but I'm hoping the earlier posted discount price will return. :huh:


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## tab665 (Aug 17, 2016)

not that I doubt it, but it seems sketchy that the surefire website doesn't acknowledge the light's existence. probably more sketchy from surefire end that armsunlimited's end.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 17, 2016)

tab665 said:


> not that I doubt it, but it seems sketchy that the surefire website doesn't acknowledge the light's existence. probably more sketchy from surefire end that armsunlimited's end.



Suddenly there seems to be something very fishy about this listing for the possible SureFire UM2. :shakehead

Now the price for the UM2 is given by the vendor mentioned above as:



> *List Price: $1,200.00*
> *Price: $295.00 *
> _* Savings: $905.00
> *_
> ...



A few days ago it was listed as:



> *List Price: $295.00*
> *Price: $210.00 *
> _* Savings: $85.00
> *_
> ...



As Marcellus said, "_Something is rotten in the state of Denmark_ …_" _:thumbsdow


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## tab665 (Aug 18, 2016)

hmmm, might need to make a call to surefire to see if this is legit or not.


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## WarriorOfLight (Aug 18, 2016)

tab665 said:


> hmmm, might need to make a call to surefire to see if this is legit or not.


That would be great  A UM2 would be a really cool light. I'm waiting for years to have this light since I'm still fan of my U2 collection


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 18, 2016)

tab665 said:


> hmmm, might need to make a call to surefire to see if this is legit or not.



Well, a quick check of SureFire's dealer locator (https://www.surefire.com/dealer-locator) doesn't list this vendor near the posted physical address in Las Vegas. However, many of these smaller dealers often have multiple 'doing business as' identities from what I've seen in the past.

And, as we've often lamented here, some online sources always list items 'in stock', process your credit card transaction, and then try to get stock from their supplier to ship while giving you an endless litany of excuses when you ask about your order.

Some customer feedback about this seller who claims to have the UM2 in stock: http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Arms_Unlimited

That posted $1200 list price for the UM2 doesn't pass the smell test for me. Is it just a typo? Or was it based on the UDR Dominator, not the UM2 'Baby' Dominator? Will it suddenly be corrected after this post? 

Has the SureFire UM2 surfaced anywhere else? The recently released 300 lumen EB1 Backup did seem to be available at a small eBay dealer weeks before it was in the main retail channel.


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## WDR65 (Aug 18, 2016)

I just called Surefire's sales department and they had no knowledge of it. I'm not sure that is the final answer on this as the gentleman I spoke to was not very familiar with the model numbers. 
Maybe someone on here that knows another division to call can get a concrete answer. I'd really like an updated U2.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 18, 2016)

Some more UM2 price information:



880arm said:


> I've seen some mentions of the new line of SureFires on here but I haven't seen any prices yet. While searching around the internet tonight I ran across a site that shows a few of them along with pre-order prices! Since I'm not familiar with the company I have no idea how reliable these are but I thought they would be worth sharing. [EDIT: I found another site with identical prices so I have more confidence in their accuracy. Also, added info for a few more models]
> 
> *UM2 Ultra ($209.30)* - All the goodness of the old U2 but with 500 lumens output and a TIR lens. It will also have a choice of switches, either momentary or clicky. I am very tempted to hit the pre-order button on this one! (U2-A-BK)
> 
> Has anyone else heard of any pricing info? To be honest, I expected the new offerings to be higher than this. If these are correct, then I suppose this explains the recent price reductions on their existing line of products.





Lodogg2221 said:


> Well, the UM2 has pricing out there, and one site is taking pre-orders. Maybe the dealers have word on when they should be in?



Unfortunately, these quotes are from a CPF thread in early *2012*.


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## kssmith (Aug 20, 2016)

Well, somebody just posted the UM2 on an auction site for $295 as well,says there's two available. Love to have one, just don't have the extra money right now...


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 20, 2016)

kssmith said:


> Well, somebody just posted the UM2 on an auction site for $295 as well,says there's two available. Love to have one, just don't have the extra money right now...



This auction site uses the same 'Baby Dominator' ad copy and seems to indicate a limited production run:



> SureFire UM2 Baby Dominator Variable Output LED Flashlight - ONLY 800 MADE



Are these NOS (New Old Stock) from a product that was axed during the recent SF cutbacks perhaps?

Are these units offered to dealers as a closeout like some of the classic incandescents were a few years ago?


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## kssmith (Aug 20, 2016)

Ok ok; I didn't have the money, but couldn't resist. Someone should have acted faster. So I ended up buying one today since they sat there for hours.... [emoji57] anyway we will see when it comes in; I'll post some pics.


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## sledhead (Aug 20, 2016)

Thanks for taking one for the team! Looking forward to your report.


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## tab665 (Aug 20, 2016)

kssmith said:


> Ok ok; I didn't have the money, but couldn't resist. Someone should have acted faster. So I ended up buying one today since they sat there for hours.... [emoji57] anyway we will see when it comes in; I'll post some pics.


i commend your bravery kssmith!!!


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 21, 2016)

sledhead said:


> Thanks for taking one for the team! Looking forward to your report.



Yep, I was sorely tempted but I swore (again ) not to be the first to buy a new light this time.

Reminds me of listening to my colleagues in a holding pattern while a slippery runway was being treated and deiced after a report of 'braking action poor to nil'. The approach controller asked the next plane in the landing sequence if he wanted to be the first to land on the runway now that it was open again. He said, nossir, we'd like to be second.


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## AR_Shorty (Aug 21, 2016)

kssmith said:


> Ok ok; I didn't have the money, but couldn't resist. Someone should have acted faster. So I ended up buying one today since they sat there for hours.... [emoji57] anyway we will see when it comes in; I'll post some pics.



I must have bought the second one then. We shall see what arrives...or doesn't arrive.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 21, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Suddenly there seems to be something very fishy about this listing for the possible SureFire UM2. :shakehead
> 
> Now the price for the UM2 is given by the vendor mentioned above as:
> 
> ...





Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> That posted $1200 list price for the UM2 doesn't pass the smell test for me. Is it just a typo? Or was it based on the UDR Dominator, not the UM2 'Baby' Dominator? Will it suddenly be corrected after this post?



Well, it now looks like the listing has indeed been 'corrected' and the $1200 'list price' has been removed:



> *Price: **$295.00*
> Stock Status:In Stock
> 
> 
> ...



The other listing on the online auction site now shows several additional UM2's available.

Will more listings for these lights pop up as they trickle out into the retail channel?

Did the UM2 finally emerge from the SureFire product vaporware cave after years of 'development' only to be axed after an 800 unit production run?

Even if they are from a production run that was discontinued I would sure be sorely tempted to buy a couple.


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## RobertMM (Aug 21, 2016)

Killing it after 800 produced is sad, maybe they were just too expensive to manufacture?
I agree that the TIR could be smaller, the E1D and E2D already have great beams with good spill.


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## WarriorOfLight (Aug 22, 2016)

If the UM2 is only a 800 Unit run than Surefire is really stupid. I'd be sure this light would sell very fine. I assume after the internal changes Surefire must see how they get the money to pay the Production lines, staff, ... If the technical specification is really true, a 600 Lumens light with selector ring in 2xCR123 is not that bad. 
The good old Sureifre U2 is IMO one of the best light they ever made. I know there are more popular lights, but I always loved my U2.


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## kssmith (Aug 22, 2016)

AR_Shorty said:


> I must have bought the second one then. We shall see what arrives...or doesn't arrive.



Lol you are right! I'm hoping it "arrives"!


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## Genna (Aug 22, 2016)

kssmith said:


> Lol you are right! I'm hoping it "arrives"!



Since I have seen that it further has available, I wanted to buy me one. Unfortunately, after a few inconsistencies, I prefer rather to be seen and I wish you guys the best of luck!


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## kssmith (Aug 22, 2016)

Well; it now has shipped. Tracking number provided. [emoji51]


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## AR_Shorty (Aug 22, 2016)

kssmith said:


> Well; it now has shipped. Tracking number provided. [emoji51]



Same for me. SC is closer to the seller than PA is, so I'm sure you will be the first to get yours. Can't wait to hear your thoughts!


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## WarriorOfLight (Aug 23, 2016)

I'm also curious... and would like to see a few pictures. For me the UM2 would be the light of the year 2016.


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## jgunner1313 (Aug 23, 2016)

I’ve talked to George over at SureFire who is their product manager and he confirmed arms did receive ALL of the supply. His email is [email protected]. Arms must have sold some to other sellers


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 23, 2016)

jgunner1313 said:


> I’ve talked to George over at SureFire who is their product manager and he confirmed arms did receive ALL of the supply. His email is [email protected]. Arms must have sold some to other sellers



George S. over at SF would certainly know. :thumbsup:

Time to hide my credit cards from myself again. :devil:


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## AR_Shorty (Aug 23, 2016)

So is 800 all they are making of the UM2 or was this just 800 in the first batch of lights to ship out??


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## jgunner1313 (Aug 23, 2016)

AR_Shorty said:


> So is 800 all they are making of the UM2 or was this just 800 in the first batch of lights to ship out??



According to George, only 800 were made and Arms got them all


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## WDR65 (Aug 23, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> George S. over at SF would certainly know. :thumbsup:
> 
> Time to hide my credit cards from myself again. :devil:



Its too late for me, I went ahead and bit the bullet. I tried to consider what else might be in the production pipe that we may not know about but that it also could be years away.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 23, 2016)

Our UM2 CPF pioneers should get their lights in the next day or two. 

I've seen at least three versions of the UM2 posted in discussions here over the last four-and-a-half years.

There is a 'computer programmable' version on page 36 of the 2012 SureFire catalog:

http://www.mp-sec.com/media/19863/2012_surefire_catalog.pdf

Another updated UM2 prototype in this video from the 2015 SHOT Show posted earlier in this thread:

https://youtu.be/ATP-vNoxaDI?t=41

And, the latest rendering in the previously posted ArmsUnlimited product listing:

https://www.armsunlimited.com/SureFire-Baby-Dominator-Variable-LED-Flashlight-p/um2-a-bk.htm

The 2012 catalog UM2 has an interesting tailcap, was it ever used on another light?

The last two UM2's seem to have SF Z59 and Z41 tailcaps perhaps.

Only the latest UM2 picture seems to have circumferential hash marks for the output levels, kinda like on the UB3T.

I wonder if the UM2 will have selector ring detents like the Kroma or no detents like the U2? Or, was it the other way around, I never could remember? 

The SHOT Show UM2 has holes in the clip, handy for attaching a lanyard.


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## AR_Shorty (Aug 23, 2016)

jgunner1313 said:


> According to George, only 800 were made and Arms got them all



I wonder what made SF abandon this as a regular production light?


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## WDR65 (Aug 23, 2016)

AR_Shorty said:


> I wonder what made SF abandon this as a regular production light?



I imagine it has something to do with the intellibeam technology like what's being used on the Fury.


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## FPSRelic (Aug 23, 2016)

WDR65 said:


> I imagine it has something to do with the intellibeam technology like what's being used on the Fury.



That's quite possible, as the intellibeam technology would be a more automated way of dealing with different light requirements without having to fiddle with a selector ring, which would make it more tactically effective, at least from a marketing point of view.

It's possible that they decided that the normal price point that these would sell at was too expensive after these 800 were made (at the same time a number of more expensive 2 and 3 cell Surefire's disappeared off their website). 

It's also possible that these are a version that may not be the final production run version, and that Surefire has decided to upgrade the emitter, or build a new version that accepts 18650 cells like the Peacekeeper.


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## gottawearshades (Aug 24, 2016)

Very interesting news.

Wonder if I can scrape up funds for one of these. . . . I've been obsessed with the possibility of this light since I had two modded U2As stolen from my porch!

Not eager to try the Intellibeam as it strikes me as a big government, nanny state effort to control how bright my light is.


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## Psosmith82 (Aug 24, 2016)

Did anybody get there's in today? I'll get mine tomorrow, been waiting on this light for awhile, thought it had turned into vaporware. I'm glad they released them, even if it was just in an 800 batch limited run.


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## FPSRelic (Aug 25, 2016)

Hmm still nothing from the guys who bought them. Have the lights arrived yet?


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## kssmith (Aug 25, 2016)

FPSRelic said:


> Hmm still nothing from the guys who bought them. Have the lights arrived yet?



Should be delivered in around 1.5hrs I'll keep ya posted!


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## pulstar (Aug 25, 2016)




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## kssmith (Aug 25, 2016)

It has landed! Per my wife, it came in a white padded envelope. It did not have an outer box. Only the black surefire inner box. it came with the arms unlimited hat that's advertised on their website with the light. I purchased mine off of an auction site so it's got to be the same reseller with a different name. I will have the light soon and will post some pictures.


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## Sean (Aug 25, 2016)

Can't wait to see it!


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## FPSRelic (Aug 25, 2016)

Sean said:


> Can't wait to see it!



ditto!


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## kssmith (Aug 25, 2016)

OK, I have the light in hand. So far I am impressed. I'm at work so I'm having to work around my job but I will try to get some pictures uploaded in the next couple of hours. 

The finish is extremely nice. it feels more like the UNR Commander in my opinion


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## Sean (Aug 25, 2016)

kssmith said:


> OK, I have the light in hand. So far I am impressed. I'm at work so I'm having to work around my job but I will try to get some pictures uploaded in the next couple of hours.
> 
> The finish is extremely nice. it feels more like the UNR Commander in my opinion



Is the battery compartment milled wide enough to hold a 18650?


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 25, 2016)

Sean said:


> Is the battery compartment milled wide enough to hold a 18650?



And, will it put out full power on a single 18650 (or 17670) cell?

At least we now know that the mythical SF UM2 has finally been sighted in the wild. :thumbsup:


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## WDR65 (Aug 25, 2016)

Mine came in today as well, quick shipping from Nevada. Fit and finish appear to be nice, on par with most of the other Surefire's I own. My one gripe is that the selector ring is not quite as smooth as my older U2's. As I type this though I remembered that my UB3T isn't that smooth either with more of a detent on each level. 

Its a bit taller than a U2 and the clip is much more utilitarian looking but appears to look like it will grip tighter than the ones from the U2's. The beam appears to be fairly white and not the greenish tint that Surefire has become more known for. That's it for me for now, at least until after dark.


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## Repsol600rr (Aug 25, 2016)

Ah $#!+. I ordered my hds rotary about a month ago and now another $300 light I really want comes along. I wouldent be as tempted if it was a higher production light. But because it's rare and I like the selector ring ui I'm really tempted as much as I know I shouldn't. It'll be really hard to resist if it takes 18650s or at least works really well on 16650s.


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## RobertMM (Aug 25, 2016)

Damn, 800 units! 
Hope I snag one.


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## AR_Shorty (Aug 25, 2016)




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## kssmith (Aug 25, 2016)

Alright, 
Sorry to take so long to get pictures up, but work this afternoon was not cooperating with flashlight priorities. oh well, anyway, as for 18650s, they will not fit in the light. I tried a 17670 on high, and there is an almost immediate step down in brightness. I do not have a way to measure the output. Also, the selector ring has notches, or clicks for the outputs, it is not smooth like the original. Here are some pictures of the items, and the UM2 next to a P2X, and some with an original U2. Hope you enjoy! 




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## Sean (Aug 25, 2016)

Thanks for the pics and info!


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## Genna (Aug 25, 2016)

AR_Shorty said:


>





kssmith said:


> Alright,
> Sorry to take so long to get pictures up, but work this afternoon was not cooperating with flashlight priorities. oh well, anyway, as for 18650s, they will not fit in the light. I tried a 17670 on high, and there is an almost immediate step down in brightness. I do not have a way to measure the output. Also, the selector ring has notches, or clicks for the outputs, it is not smooth like the original. Here are some pictures of the items, and the UM2 next to a P2X, and some with an original U2. Hope you enjoy!
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the pics!


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## Repsol600rr (Aug 25, 2016)

How would you compare the size for carry in a cargo pocket using the clip. I have a u2a and that's the upper limit of size I carry. It looks larger but how noticeable would you say it is? Beamshots?


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## RobertMM (Aug 25, 2016)

Looks thick enough to bore for a bare 18650.


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## sledhead (Aug 25, 2016)

One question before I hit the button. Beam pretty clean?

Thanks for the time!


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## kssmith (Aug 25, 2016)

When it comes to carry, I never carried the original U2, but the bezel looks to be the same diameter at the end. The overall head size and length is a little more. The bodies and tailcaps are the same I think.

As for the beam, so far looks good, but I've been waiting for the night to really see it. Give me a few more and I'll try to get some pics.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 25, 2016)

Awesome pictures. Obviously, I didn't hide my credit cards well enough. :shakehead
I gotta get one of those ballcaps. 



RobertMM said:


> Looks thick enough to bore for a bare 18650.



And, looks like an original U2 body, which definitely takes the 18650 (sometimes you have to remove a plastic insert), will work with this light. It appears that the UM2 body is a very minor modification of the U2 body with almost the same milling and a different clip. Is the tailcap a longer version of the Z41 on the U2 perhaps? Or is it the same? Maybe a little Lego time between the UM2 and U2 in the interest of science? 

Has that UM2 clip appeared on a production SF light before?


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## Repsol600rr (Aug 25, 2016)

Must not buy... Must not buy... Must not buy... How long you guys think these will last? I need to hold off a bit but I want one.


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## LumensMaximus (Aug 25, 2016)

No serial #'s on the light?:thinking:


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## kssmith (Aug 25, 2016)

LumensMaximus said:


> No serial #'s on the light?:thinking:



It's on the bezel, like the new Furys etc.


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## sledhead (Aug 25, 2016)

Beat me too it. Thought I saw it on the bezel.


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## LumensMaximus (Aug 25, 2016)

Guess I saw it but was so excited, it didn't register :duh2:


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## MBentz (Aug 25, 2016)

kssmith said:


> It's on the bezel, like the new Furys etc.



I just barely saw it, was about to comment on the lack of SN. How about the lack of patents listed?


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## WarriorOfLight (Aug 26, 2016)

kssmith said:


> ...


Thanks for that great pictures. You really made my day. I ordered also one. But the way to me is much loooooooonger... :shakehead ... maybe in 2 weeks I'll have mine.

Also interesting would be a few beamshots and impressions how the light is when it is dark outside. Does the beam has enough spill or is is extremely focused with the TIR?


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## FPSRelic (Aug 26, 2016)

Thanks kssmith and AR_Shorty for those pics and for taking one for the team. I pretty much took the dive the day after you guys, but mine won't hit the ground for at least another week or two. It is good to get confirmation that I'm likely to get the legitimate deal.

Interestingly, the last 6 left listed on the auction site after I placed my order have now sold out, 4 of them went today. I'd suspect that a number of other CPF members may have pushed the button on the sale now that these pics are out. You have done the community a service in this regard.


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## kssmith (Aug 26, 2016)

Here are some beamshots I took last night, I didn't get a chance to upload them until now. Keep in mind, I am not experianced in this, and used my Iphone. The comparison light is the 600 lumen Fury. In the two outside pictures, the tree to the left, at the very end is around 50 yards away.

Fury:



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UM2:



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Inside, distance around 10 feet:

Fury:




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UM2:




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IMO, the beams are very similar, but I think the UM2 will have more throw. I did not get a chance to go out for a distance test last night. Hope these help!


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## tab665 (Aug 26, 2016)

hmmm... so the spill is bigger but also significantly dimmer. i like it!


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## Sean (Aug 26, 2016)

Thanks for the beamshots!


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## gottawearshades (Aug 26, 2016)

Thanks for reconnaissance, folks. Looks like a very interesting light. Seems huge for a two-cell light, but still very interesting.


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## WDR65 (Aug 26, 2016)

gottawearshades said:


> Thanks for reconnaissance, folks. Looks like a very interesting light. Seems huge for a two-cell light, but still very interesting.



It is surprisingly large, which follows the same pattern as the E series with the upgraded optics. They have all gone the opposite way of the what first made me buy Surefire, the size to output ratio.

Edit: The size to output ratio is still good, I just mean that they have gotten quite a bit larger over the years.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 26, 2016)

FPSRelic said:


> Interestingly, the last 6 left listed on the auction site after I placed my order have now sold out, 4 of them went today. I'd suspect that a number of other CPF members may have pushed the button on the sale now that these pics are out. You have done the community a service in this regard.



It appears that the seller is replenishing the auction listing 10 units at a time. If the 800 unit figure is accurate, these lights should be available for many paydays to come.

I've learned to be eternally skeptical of SureFire product release announcements but it looks like the UM2 is finally on the market as a single dealer list price closeout.

Will this be the last of the classic SF's from the PK design era? The selector ring, head and clip are new but the body and tailcap are virtually unchanged from the 2004 introduction of the U2 (which was spec'ed at 80 or 100 lumens in the early product listings).


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## WarriorOfLight (Aug 26, 2016)

I think Surefire is focussing also on lights for a smaller budget or new customers. For me the Sidekick was forca new group of customers, and not the traditional Surefire buyer. Also the R3IB is not for the traditioal Surefire customer IMO. 

At all the Selector Ring is a kind of out. A few years ago Jetbean, Nitecore, Niteye, Sunwayman and I'm sure a few more manufacturers I forgot had also a Selector Ring light in the lineup. Today no manufacturer really have a Selector Ring light in the lineup, anymore. Seems Selector Rengs are oldschool!?

I am waiting for the UM2 since 2012 and I'm happy the light is available. A max. output of 600 lumens is also not bad for a light of this size. Also the beam looks not bad to me when I see the pictures. I can not wait until my UM2 reaches me...


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## KROMATICS (Aug 26, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> It appears that the seller is replenishing the auction listing 10 units at a time. If the 800 unit figure is accurate, these lights should be available for many paydays to come.



Has anyone received theirs from the eBay auction or just direct from Arms Unlimited? I'm not so sure they are the same. I noticed the eBay seller is located in Florida while Arms Unlimited is located in Nevada.


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## AR_Shorty (Aug 26, 2016)

I got mine from the auction site. Its the same seller because the package shipped from NV even though the seller is listed as from FL. ArmsUnlimited is in NV. It also came with the Surefire/ArmsUnlimited hat.


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## kssmith (Aug 26, 2016)

AR_Shorty said:


> I got mine from the auction site. Its the same seller because the package shipped from NV even though the seller is listed as from FL. ArmsUnlimited is in NV. It also came with the Surefire/ArmsUnlimited hat.



Same for me. I ordered from the auction site, shipped from Nevada with the Arms stuff.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 26, 2016)

KROMATICS said:


> Has anyone received theirs from the eBay auction or just direct from Arms Unlimited? I'm not so sure they are the same. I noticed the eBay seller is located in Florida while Arms Unlimited is located in Nevada.





AR_Shorty said:


> I got mine from the auction site. Its the same seller because the package shipped from NV even though the seller is listed as from FL. ArmsUnlimited is in NV. It also came with the Surefire/ArmsUnlimited hat.



In my earlier due diligence I was puzzled by some seeming 'inconsistencies' like the $1200 'list price' for the UM2 in the ArmsUnlimited online catalog.

Also, the auction site feedback score is sterling at 99.8%, the recent ArmUnlimited reviews here: http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Arms_Unlimited did not inspire confidence.

Anyway, looks like the UM2 is the real deal. :twothumbs

Has anyone ordered from the ArmsUnlimited website? Or, gone by their showroom in Las Vegas?


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## Psosmith82 (Aug 26, 2016)

I purchased mine directly from the arms unlimited website. They shipped the very next day, priority mail and I got it in 2 days. Came packaged exactly like everyone else's including the Hat. Unless they've sold out of there 800 units, your experience should be the same as mine.


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## WDR65 (Aug 26, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> In my earlier due diligence I was puzzled by some seeming 'inconsistencies' like the $1200 'list price' for the UM2 in the ArmsUnlimited online catalog.
> 
> Also, the auction site feedback score is sterling at 99.8%, the recent ArmUnlimited reviews here: http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Arms_Unlimited did not inspire confidence.
> 
> ...



I ordered direct from their website on Tuesday, got the light here in North Carolina yesterday along with the free hat. I don't see anything to suggest that it's not the real thing.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 27, 2016)

Well, I ordered mine from the auction site, it came in two days from a North Miami Beach address. 

But, no ballcap. :shakehead

Looks like very fast service either way you order. :thumbsup:

I've got U2's, a Kroma Mil-spec and a UB3T and I still somehow got confused over which ring on the head rotates.

I tried to turn the ring with the hash marks and it was frozen. 

After a moment of reflection (and mild self-imprecation) I realized that the smaller ring with the dot on it is the part that turns.



kssmith said:


> I tried a 17670 on high, and there is an almost immediate step down in brightness. I do not have a way to measure the output. Also, the selector ring has notches, or clicks for the outputs, it is not smooth like the original.



I tried a Keeppower 16650 and it cycled continuously between the two highest power levels so it seems that the single cell option will not work well with this light. Two Tenergy LiFePO4 RCR123A's work fine with all power levels. I'll let someone else try the overvoltage test with the fresh off the charger 4.2 volt RCR's. The date on the included SureFire batteries is 04-2026 suggesting that these lights were packaged in recent months and not sitting in the Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse for a couple of years before finally being released and cancelled.

The feel on the selector ring is a little gritty to me when compared to the silky smooth U2 and the slightly less smooth with detents UB3T.



Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> And, looks like an original U2 body, which definitely takes the 18650 (sometimes you have to remove a plastic insert), will work with this light. It appears that the UM2 body is a very minor modification of the U2 body with almost the same milling and a different clip. Is the tailcap a longer version of the Z41 on the U2 perhaps? Or is it the same? Maybe a little Lego time between the UM2 and U2 in the interest of science?



Well, I got a late model U2 (a U2A here on CPF) out of the drawer and tried the Lego with the UM2. The tailcaps seem to be identical with a beautiful matte black finish. I believe this tailcap is similar to the Z59 but was never sold separately with this matte finish. 

The bodies of the U2 and UM2 are very similar but _not_ the same from I can see. Although the tailcaps appear to be identical, the tail threads are not exactly in the same position on the tube. You can swap the U2 and UM2 tailcaps and both lights work. However a Z49 tailcap works fine on the U2 (even thought the finish is shiny, not matte) but does not work on the UM2. The Z49 doesn't seem to tighten onto the UM2 threads far enough to get that last millimeter of contact somewhere.

And, the threads on the head of the UM2 are of a smaller diameter than the ones on the U2 so a head swap doesn't work at all.

My UM2 appears to be toward the green corner of the chromaticity diagram when compared to the UB3T. Of the lights I have handy for comparison it seems to closely match the tint of a SF EB2. But the tint is not really objectionable compared to some coke bottle green lights of yesteryear.

No visible PWM at any power level that I can see.

Great light, too bad it is discontinued. :shakehead


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## FPSRelic (Aug 27, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Well, I ordered mine from the auction site, it came in two days from a North Miami Beach address.
> 
> But, no ballcap. :shakehead
> 
> Great light, too bad it is discontinued. :shakehead



Too bad you didn't get that hat either.


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## shrike2222 (Aug 27, 2016)

Are UM2s really made only 800 units???
Anyone hear about this is true or just sayings from Surefire???


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 27, 2016)

FPSRelic said:


> Too bad you didn't get that hat either.



I agree, it does look like a good quality ballcap.

Maybe your early order will come from Nevada with the cap, hope it does. :thumbsup:

When I see an Ozmate walking down Orchard Road in Singapore with the AU/SF ballcap it might be you. 

I'll try not to wax too nostalgic but to me the UM2 has the look and feel of the classic early PK LED SureFires like the L2, L4 and U2. Fine CNC knurling and that SR-71 matte black finish.

The 100 lumen U2 was still on the SureFire NSN list as recently as the 2015 catalog. Was there some military spec ops contract that specified this particular light years ago perhaps? Was the UM2 the long awaited update for a new contract that never came after cutbacks in the military?


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## KROMATICS (Aug 29, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Well, I ordered mine from the auction site, it came in two days from a North Miami Beach address.
> 
> But, no ballcap. :shakehead



Same here. No ball cap or stickers. The label on the package shows the Florida address but tracking shows it shipped from Nevada. The selector ring feels a little on the cheap side but it's easy to turn one-handed. I like it a lot so far. Too bad they discontinued/scrapped it. They discontinued a LOT of stuff this year.


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## WarriorOfLight (Aug 30, 2016)

KROMATICS said:


> ...but tracking shows it shipped from Nevada.


Same here I bought my UM2 also @ ebay and the tracking says Nevada, even if in the ebay lising the item location is stated in Florida .



KROMATICS said:


> They discontinued a LOT of stuff this year.


Yes they discontinued a lot stuff...  ...and in my opinion also good selling lights like the Outdoorsmans.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 31, 2016)

I earlier said that I thought the U2 and UM2 tailcaps were identical. Upon closer inspection it looks like there is a collar around the spring inside that is metal on the U2 tailcap and plastic on the UM2 tailcap. They are indeed interchangeable on the two lights in my testing.

Those 3.0 volt Tenergy LiFePO4 batteries I was using are only rated at 400 mAh and have a high failure rate from my experience. I went for broke and put a set of AW RCR123's fresh off the charger into the UM2 for a 'smoke test'.  They seem to work fine, unlike in some other recent SF lights such as the EB2. :twothumbs

The selector ring feels a little cheesy but otherwise this is a great light.


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## teak (Aug 31, 2016)

Ehhh.. seems everytime surefire releases a new light I become more disappointed. I've always liked the old U2 with that beautiful reflector. I haven't been a fan of their new TIR or any of their new lights. From the beam shot pics I prefer the fury. A fury reflector with the selector ring would have been awesome I think. Everything surefire makes now is huge. The whole point in TIR was to keep the head size down. I liked the old TIR much better anyway. Oh well, saved me money.


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## gottawearshades (Aug 31, 2016)

Curious: does anybody know or want to speculate on the emitter in there? Hasn't an early adopter cracked the head open yet? I've lost track of Surefire so I don't know what's in the Fury. XML?

Speaking of bravery, I wonder if anybody would be willing to try running this on three primaries with an extender. It seems to like higher voltage--at least, it really doesn't like low voltage--and apparently it will run on two RCRs. . . .

Very obsessed while i save pennies.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 31, 2016)

teak said:


> I've always liked the old U2 with that beautiful reflector. I haven't been a fan of their new TIR or any of their new lights. From the beam shot pics I prefer the fury. A fury reflector with the selector ring would have been awesome I think. Everything surefire makes now is huge. The whole point in TIR was to keep the head size down. I liked the old TIR much better anyway.





gottawearshades said:


> Curious: does anybody know or want to speculate on the emitter in there? Hasn't an early adopter cracked the head open yet? I've lost track of Surefire so I don't know what's in the Fury. XML?



I'm somewhat puzzled about the large TIR as well. The EB2 and EB1 have very tight beams with smaller TIR heads. Is the larger head on the UM2 to accommodate a larger XM-L or XM-L2 emitter perhaps? Maybe the U2 reflector would not give as much of a hotspot as the TIR with the larger XM-L dies.

Seems like this light was in development since at least 2012, did a smaller higher efficacy emitter later become available on the EB2 and E2D that performed near to the output level of the larger UM2? Was this a factor in the UM2 cancellation?

My UM2 and EB2 have very nearly the same slightly greenish tint on high. The EB2 has a smaller, tighter hotspot with less spill.

Is the larger UM2 TIR to maintain compatibility with some NSN listed accessories for the U2 perhaps?


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## teak (Aug 31, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> I'm somewhat puzzled about the large TIR as well. The EB2 and EB1 have very tight beams with smaller TIR heads. Is the larger head on the UM2 to accommodate a larger XM-L or XM-L2 emitter perhaps? Maybe the U2 reflector would not give as much of a hotspot as the TIR with the larger XM-L dies.
> 
> Seems like this light was in development since at least 2012, did a smaller higher efficacy emitter later become available on the EB2 and E2D that performed near to the output level of the larger UM2? Was this a factor in the UM2 cancellation?
> 
> ...


I give up trying to figure out what surefire is thinking since PK left. Lol. Perfect example is the new avaiator that is coming out. They just took the vampire and swapped out the IR for a colored led. No innovation there and so far off what the aviator used to be. 

Sorry for the off topic guys...the new u2 ultra is great. [emoji6]


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## FPSRelic (Aug 31, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> I'm somewhat puzzled about the large TIR as well. The EB2 and EB1 have very tight beams with smaller TIR heads. Is the larger head on the UM2 to accommodate a larger XM-L or XM-L2 emitter perhaps? Maybe the U2 reflector would not give as much of a hotspot as the TIR with the larger XM-L dies.
> 
> Seems like this light was in development since at least 2012, did a smaller higher efficacy emitter later become available on the EB2 and E2D that performed near to the output level of the larger UM2? Was this a factor in the UM2 cancellation?
> 
> ...



Based on the interview with Going Gear at SHOT show, the new TIR was meant to give a better balance between flood and spill:

https://youtu.be/ATP-vNoxaDI?t=56s

Not sure what emitter is uses, but it's max output is rated at 600 lumens - on par with the Fury, as opposed to the 500 lumens of the E2D and the EB2. This, to me, would suggest that they're using the XML emitter of the fury as opposed to the Golden Dragon emitter of the EB2/E2D, which might explain the different optic. Your tint finding suggest that they're the same however. I guess we won't know for sure until someone pops the hood on one of these.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Aug 31, 2016)

teak said:


> Sorry for the off topic guys...the new u2 ultra is great. [emoji6]



Do you mean the UM2? Or the U2 Ultra that came out in 2004? Both are great lights in my opinion. :twothumbs

The UM2 with depleted batteries seems to ramp down the output gracefully so you should get plenty of notice before it goes dark.

As was the case with the U2, I do wish that the lowest level on the UM2 were a little lower. I took the light out for the country walk at midnight on a moonless light. It's easy to fire off the light full blast at the ground to announce my presence to a passing pickup truck. A neighbor in an SUV stopped to ask if I'd seen her chicken that flew the coop. I told her I'd be on the lookout and used the UM2 to check a couple of nearby fields. I heard a commotion in the woods and four deer bounded across the road ahead of me. Like the U2, the UM2 feels very good in the hand. I'm getting used to the UM2 selector ring but it just doesn't feel as robust as the U2 selector. I may get some magnets off the refrigerator and see if they make the UM2 change modes like they do on the U2.

The mode changes seem to occur right at the detents on the new light. Is the same technology used to change modes on the UM2 as on the U2 (thought to be Hall effect switches)? Is a three bit Gray code involved with multiple magnets? Or a single magnet on the ring passing six sensors in the body of the light? I'll let somebody else do the teardown this time.


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## teak (Aug 31, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Do you mean the UM2? Or the U2 Ultra that came out in 2004? Both are great lights in my opinion. :twothumbs
> 
> The UM2 with depleted batteries seems to ramp down the output gracefully so you should get plenty of notice before it goes dark.
> 
> ...


Sorry. UM2. I love the u2 ultra. Sounds like your enjoying yours so far.


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## Minimoog (Sep 1, 2016)

I have the original U2, but upgraded with an XPH-50 neutral LED. That is so good that I wonder why SF did not just do this themselves.


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## tab665 (Sep 1, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> The selector ring feels a little cheesy but otherwise this is a great light.


what do you mean by the selector ring feeling "cheesy"?


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## WDR65 (Sep 1, 2016)

tab665 said:


> what do you mean by the selector ring feeling "cheesy"?



I think he means that it doesn't feel like it's on ball bearings which is how the original U2 feels. The level detents also feel rough and somehow less well crafted than earlier examples, including the U2 and even the UB3T.


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## RobertMM (Sep 2, 2016)

Maybe with some use the rough spots on the ring will even out and the lube will thin out and spread, and it will improve smoothness.


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## RobertMM (Sep 2, 2016)

Please delete, sorry.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Sep 2, 2016)

RobertMM said:


> Maybe with some use the rough spots on the ring will even out and the lube will thin out and spread, and it will improve smoothness.



And I'm not sure what lube, if any, should be used on this ring. It almost feels like the detents are somehow mechanically involved in the mode switching.

The roughness of the UM2 selector ring movement is a pretty minor quibble. Like the tint, I probably wouldn't notice it except by comparison to another light.


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## StandardBattery (Sep 2, 2016)

Minimoog said:


> I have the original U2, but upgraded with an XPH-50 neutral LED. That is so good that I wonder why SF did not just do this themselves.


That sounds very nice. Same driver?


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## kssmith (Sep 2, 2016)

So I've been using mine for a bit now; and must say they I really like this light. May be my favorite used light. The selector ring on mine doesn't feel cheesy for sure. Nice and solid. Also, I think the length is perfect, it falls in between the P2X and P3X. 

I did accidentally find out how to remove the selector ring tho. I was unscrewing the head, and unintentionally took the base of the head off. This caused the ring to come loose. Since I wasn't ready for this, and I don't want to break it, I did not further explore. I screwed the base back on and performed function tests. 

I am probably going to try and remove the pocket clip and see how I like that set up. Looks like the retaining ring screws on. Has anybody else tried this?


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Sep 3, 2016)

kssmith said:


> I am probably going to try and remove the pocket clip and see how I like that set up. Looks like the retaining ring screws on. Has anybody else tried this?



I was thinking the same thing but haven't tried it yet. It looks like a plastic nut comes off and you can easily remove the clip.

I've had good luck with the RCR123A's in this light. An old worn set of AW RCR's cuts out after a couple of minutes on high but quickly recover when the power is cycled, similar to their performance in power hungry legacy incandescents. On lower levels the AW's run to exhaustion with plenty of warning as they lose power. As always, you probably don't want to run regular RCR's too low on voltage if you can avoid it.

A new set of Olight 16340 650 mAh RCR123A's work great in the UM2 and like the AW's seem to have no issues with voltage even hot off the charger. I've been using this battery in the PK-PR1 lately as well.


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## LumensMaximus (Sep 4, 2016)

The U2 Ultra is no longer on the Surefire website, I could have sworn they were on in 2016


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## teak (Sep 6, 2016)

LumensMaximus said:


> The U2 Ultra is no longer on the Surefire website, I could have sworn they were on in 2016


I never noticed them to ever be, however, I don't look at the website much these days. Last time I looked on there was to see if they still had the LX2 listed. Well they didn't.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Sep 6, 2016)

LumensMaximus said:


> The U2 Ultra is no longer on the Surefire website, I could have sworn they were on in 2016



It appears that the the U2 was listed online at surefire.com as late as November 2015, it seemed to disappear shortly thereafter:

http://web.archive.org/web/20151121...ire.com/illumination/flashlights.html?clear=1



teak said:


> I never noticed them to ever be, however, I don't look at the website much these days. Last time I looked on there was to see if they still had the LX2 listed. Well they didn't.



Looks like the LX2 still had a SF product webpage as recently as March 2016:

http://web.archive.org/web/20160327...com/illumination/flashlights/lx2-lumamax.html


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## Up All Night (Sep 8, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> I earlier said that I thought the U2 and UM2 tailcaps were identical. Upon closer inspection it looks like there is a collar around the spring inside that is metal on the U2 tailcap and plastic on the UM2 tailcap. They are indeed interchangeable on the two lights in my testing.
> 
> Those 3.0 volt Tenergy LiFePO4 batteries I was using are only rated at 400 mAh and have a high failure rate from my experience. I went for broke and put a set of AW RCR123's fresh off the charger into the UM2 for a 'smoke test'.  They seem to work fine, unlike in some other recent SF lights such as the EB2. :twothumbs
> 
> The selector ring feels a little cheesy but otherwise this is a great light.



I tip my hat to your intrepid nature regarding the 2 x 3.7 volt AW batts. Price & geography will be keeping me out of this one. I'll enjoy vicariously!

Not to derail, could you expand on your EB2 experience on two 3.7v batteries. I have proceeded as far as two in the tube but I can't bring myself to engage the tac switch!
Thanks!


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Sep 9, 2016)

Up All Night said:


> Not to derail, could you expand on your EB2 experience on two 3.7v batteries. I have proceeded as far as two in the tube but I can't bring myself to engage the tac switch!
> Thanks!



Well, I was thinking that AW RCR123A's in my EB2 would make the light slowly blink due to overvoltage. However after searching my previous posts here, it appears that it is my early 200 lumen SF _EB1_ that I had tried with that result. And, it also appears that the latest 300 lumen version of the EB1 takes 3.7 volt RCR's just fine.


So, I took a set of AW RCR123A's hot off the charger at around 4.2 volts and put them in my late model EB2 for the 'smoke test' . To my surprise, they work fine. The head gets warm after a few minutes but it seems to be thermally stable sitting on a desk without a hand as a heat sink. I repeated the test with a new set of Olight RCR's with the same result.


Of the SF lights that I have, the EB2 is probably the closest competitor to the UM2 in terms of size and beam. Having six levels on the UM2 is a nice luxury but as zoom camera lens makers have long observed, most folks use the extreme settings a lot more than the intermediate ones. The high and low settings of the EB2 are close to the highest and lowest levels of the UM2 and the EB2 is significantly smaller and less expensive.


Maybe the EB2 was too close to the UM2 in the product line and the legacy military spec that sold U2's for so many years was never updated to include the new generation of lights that were four times as bright.


I love the classic knurling and finish of the UM2 and it is great having six well spaced levels of output. However, in the real world, the EB2 probably could do the same the same job in most cases.


If the UM2 is like some other SureFire closeouts and limited runs, the lights will sell at list price for a while until the niche market demand is satisfied. Then they will be discounted to clear out the remaining stock. Still later, the lights will appear on the auction site for a premium price since they are now out of production collectibles. The 9-11 edition red 6PX and the 30th anniversary pen and EB1 sets are in the premium price stage of this cycle on eBay for example.


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## Up All Night (Sep 11, 2016)

^^
Thanks for going the extra mile with that reply! Much appreciated! :thumbsup:


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## WarriorOfLight (Sep 12, 2016)

My UM2 arrived today :thumbsup: So far I like the Flashlight. The Selector Ring is more like the Dominator Selector Ring with defined "clicks" for each of the 6 stages. The U2 does not have this click stages on the selector ring, but the Kroma...

The beam looks good so far (currently I habe daylight - need to wait a few hours till dawn to say more). The beam color of the light is cold but not too blue. 

At all for me I am pretty sure it was a good buy. I was waiting for this light really long.

Btw, I got the light at ebay and I also got the cap and the arms united stickers. Even if the shop was stated in Miami the tracking told me it was sent from Las Vegas.


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## AR_Shorty (Sep 12, 2016)

I have some bad news. My light has started acting up. The two brightest settings on the selector ring don't increase brightness, but actually step down the brightness. It also will also switch brightness levels on its own (almost a ramping up effect) after selecting one of the last two levels on the ring. I'm very disappointed as I was really liking this light. Anyone have any idea what may be the problem? I wonder how Surefire would handle it if contacted about warranty work on one of these lights, since they were a limited run?


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Sep 12, 2016)

AR_Shorty said:


> Anyone have any idea what may be the problem? I wonder how Surefire would handle it if contacted about warranty work on one of these lights, since they were a limited run?



Batteries are the first thing I would check, for example, the lower voltage on a single cell RCR seems to give the cycling on the two highest levels:



Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> I tried a Keeppower 16650 and it cycled continuously between the two highest power levels so it seems that the single cell option will not work well with this light. Two Tenergy LiFePO4 RCR123A's work fine with all power levels.



And this is a high drain light on the last two levels, does your light work normally on the lower levels? I've seen the level seeking behavior on this light as various types of cells get weak. Some more of my UM2 battery experience:



Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> I've had good luck with the RCR123A's in this light. An old worn set of AW RCR's cuts out after a couple of minutes on high but quickly recover when the power is cycled, similar to their performance in power hungry legacy incandescents. On lower levels the AW's run to exhaustion with plenty of warning as they lose power. As always, you probably don't want to run regular RCR's too low on voltage if you can avoid it.



Do you have another fresh set of primary CR123A's to try?

The longtime mantra here on CPF is that SureFire has great customer service. I would expect them to support the UM2 even though it seems to be somewhat of an orphan product.

If the price drops at some point, I'd be tempted to buy a couple more for gifts. Maybe I'll get those stickers and the ballcap next time.


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## kssmith (Sep 12, 2016)

When the two primaries on mine began to weaken, the high output would begin to alternate between high and med high. New batteries fixed this, and I had no other issues on the lower outputs.


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## AR_Shorty (Sep 13, 2016)

I just put two new primaries in the light...no change. Its still messed up on the highest two levels on the selector ring. It worked just fine the night before last and then when I went to use it last night, the glitch was present. :sigh:


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Sep 13, 2016)

Hmmm, about the only other things I would check before sending it to SF for repair are the contact areas in the current path.

Make sure the springs are properly seated at both ends inside and check that the three brass colored strips in the tailcap and the bottom edge of the battery tube are clean. The lockout tailcap needs to be fully tightened for these parts to mate. The head doesn't seem to be as critical, the light will still work if the head is slightly unscrewed.

I would double check that the black plastic washer that secures the clip is fully screwed down. Some of the old 47's Quark lights had a pesky retainer ring on the tube that would loosen just enough to keep the light from working properly.

Do you have a U2, P2X or other SureFire with a tailcap that you could swap to see if that makes a difference? Years ago I had a power hungry multi-LED SF 6P dropin that would not go to the highest level. After trying everything else, it turned out that the tailcap had just enough contact resistance to keep the light from going to high. Another SF tailcap worked just fine.


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## AR_Shorty (Sep 14, 2016)

Good news! Thanks to Vox Clamatis in Deserto's post, I tried a tailcap from a U2 that I have. The light functioned normally then. So I fiddled around with the spring in the UM2's tailcap and put it back on. The light now functions properly. It must have not been making the proper connection. At least I know the issue (if there still is one) is limited to the tailcap, should I need to get a replacement. I'll see if I have any further problems with it. Thanks for the suggestions for troubleshooting!


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## Sofastreamer (Sep 14, 2016)

since surefires seems to aim quite a bit at consumer products (sidekick, peacemaker, fire peak) they tend to get worse in quality control. if that is the path for surefire in the future... what a shame.....


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Sep 14, 2016)

AR_Shorty said:


> Good news! Thanks to Vox Clamatis in Deserto's post, I tried a tailcap from a U2 that I have. The light functioned normally then. So I fiddled around with the spring in the UM2's tailcap and put it back on. The light now functions properly.



Great! :twothumbs

Earlier I made this observation about the UM2 and swapping tailcaps:



Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> The bodies of the U2 and UM2 are very similar but _not_ the same from I can see. Although the tailcaps appear to be identical, the tail threads are not exactly in the same position on the tube. You can swap the U2 and UM2 tailcaps and both lights work. However a Z49 tailcap works fine on the U2 (even thought the finish is shiny, not matte) but does not work on the UM2. The Z49 doesn't seem to tighten onto the UM2 threads far enough to get that last millimeter of contact somewhere.



Well, I just tried the very same Surefire Z49 tailcap on the UM2 again and it now works fine. The light also works great with a Z48 tailcap (similar to the Z49 but with a hard anodized finish). Did I just not tighten the Z49 enough when I first tried it? 

Or is the threading on the UM2 tube indeed slightly shifted from the other SureFires and the spring doesn't press on the battery as hard? The spring in the Z49 that didn't work earlier is visibly bent slightly to one side but since it works, I know from past experience that it is best not to try to fix it.


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## AR_Shorty (Sep 16, 2016)

Ok, so my tailcap is definitely a problem. Its flakey again. What other tailcaps will work with this light and have the same nice flat black anodizing? My U2 tailcap is too glossy. I can't imagine even if I contact Surefire that they have an inventory of UM2 tailcaps laying around that they can just send me a replacement.


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## FPSRelic (Sep 16, 2016)

AR_Shorty said:


> Ok, so my tailcap is definitely a problem. Its flakey again. What other tailcaps will work with this light and have the same nice flat black anodizing? My U2 tailcap is too glossy. I can't imagine even if I contact Surefire that they have an inventory of UM2 tailcaps laying around that they can just send me a replacement.



Id send it back. You pay all that money for the warranty, you may as well use it


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## FPSRelic (Sep 16, 2016)

Just saw this on Surefire's facebook page:

https://m.facebook.com/SureFire/pho...9611.176428635720061/1383085388387707/?type=3


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## Minimoog (Sep 17, 2016)

StandardBattery said:


> That sounds very nice. Same driver?



Yes, everything the same apart from the LED upgraded. Even I was surprised how good it made me the light and now I use it much more.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Sep 17, 2016)

AR_Shorty said:


> Ok, so my tailcap is definitely a problem. Its flakey again. What other tailcaps will work with this light and have the same nice flat black anodizing? My U2 tailcap is too glossy. I can't imagine even if I contact Surefire that they have an inventory of UM2 tailcaps laying around that they can just send me a replacement.





FPSRelic said:


> Id send it back. You pay all that money for the warranty, you may as well use it



Years ago I had a problem with a SureFire L2 tactical tailcap. I called SF product support to get an RMA and they seemed to be aware of the issue from other reports. They verified my address (I've had an account with SF for years) and sent me two new L2 tailcaps, both worked fine. I didn't have to send the light but they did have me do a test with a paperclip shorted from the bottom of the battery to the end of the tube. When the light came on bright it indicated that the problem was likely in the tailcap switch.

Maybe SF will send you a new UM2 tailcap and save both of you the trouble of a round trip RMA shipment. Since another tailcap works fine, you might try the paperclip test just to confirm in case product support still has this on the customer troubleshooting checklist.

I'm on the road at the moment and don't have access to my SF U2's to check the tailcap finish. I thought that one had a finish very similar to the UM2 tailcap. With SureFire's greater acceptance of clicky switches in recent years I would hope that another light still in production would have the same tailcap as the UM2.

Here's a list of SF tailcaps in this post from a few years ago:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-with-IMAGES&p=2116454&viewfull=1#post2116454


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## kssmith (Sep 19, 2016)

I've been wanting to reply to this for a few days, but have been busy. In reference to the tailcap problems. I used to have an EB2 that would not switch modes, when the paperclip test was done, the high mode worked fine. I contacted Surefire, and they shipped me a new tailcap without having to send in the whole light. Also, I swapped tailcaps on a P2X and the UM2, and think they look better. Here are some pics. Also, there is no function problems.





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[/URL][/IMG]


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Sep 19, 2016)

AR_Shorty said:


> What other tailcaps will work with this light and have the same nice flat black anodizing? My U2 tailcap is too glossy. I can't imagine even if I contact Surefire that they have an inventory of UM2 tailcaps laying around that they can just send me a replacement.



I'd say that the tailcap off a late model SureFire U2 is almost identical cosmetically to the UM2 tailcap. The WWW.SUREFIRE.COM is in a smaller font on the U2 tailcap and I've mentioned previously that the UM2 cap has a plastic collar around the spring inside instead of a metal one. The matte black finish is about the same on both caps.

A tailcap from an early Luxeon emitter U2 is more shiny and has a dark purple tint by comparison.

Judging from serial numbers, somewhere on the order of 100,000 U2's were made. I would hope SF customer service would have spare tailcaps and be able to send you one or two.


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## the badger (Sep 26, 2016)

Does anyone know if it's safe to use a 17670 in this UM2 Ultra?


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Sep 26, 2016)

the badger said:


> Does anyone know if it's safe to use a 17670 in this UM2 Ultra?



Both a Keeppower 16650 and an AW 17670 fit OK but they cycle up and down continuously on the highest selector ring setting. The 17670 is a little snug but can be pushed out since you can remove both the tail and head on this light unlike on some other recent SureFires.

AW and Olight RCR123A's work fine in my UM2.

I really like the light. I'd probably like it twice as much if it were half the price though.


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## the badger (Sep 26, 2016)

Thanks for the reply Vox!

With regards to cycling up/down on the highest mode - does it drop from level 6 to 5 and back up to 6, etc?


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Sep 27, 2016)

the badger said:


> With regards to cycling up/down on the highest mode - does it drop from level 6 to 5 and back up to 6, etc?



Yep, that's exactly what it does. And, the cycling seems to be very regular, as if the voltage is polled every second or so and the level is dropped if it is below some threshold. The single RCR cell voltage must be right on the low limit when on the highest selected setting. Kinda like a bistable multivibrator driven by a one Hz pulse signal. Not that there's anything wrong with that as Seinfeld would say. 

Also, as the batteries run down, the light will cycle more than one level down until it reaches a steady mode. If the battery recovers somewhat, it will cycle up and start the routine again. It gives you plenty of warning to recharge or replace the batteries as they weaken.


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## the badger (Sep 27, 2016)

That's great info, thanks a lot! I was just outside comparing my UM2 (2x 123A) to my UC30 (1x 18650). Pros and cons..


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## WarriorOfLight (Sep 27, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Yep, that's exactly what it does. And, the cycling seems to be very regular, as if the voltage is polled every second or so and the level is dropped if it is below some threshold.


It is the same in my two UM2 lights. I assume this is a voltage observer in the driver. The brightness change between level 5 and 6 is very regulary. I have other SF lights they really flash (between on and off) if the battery is going low.
I think this is a battery warning feature in this light. At all it seems like the UM2 has a build in driver with a lot nice features. Maybe a thermal observation like the EB2 and E2DLU is also in this driver... !?

Currenty I did not found the courage to flip two "normal" LiIon cells in the UM2. I only tried K2 Energy LFP cells and they work perfectly in my UM2's.


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## WarriorOfLight (Sep 30, 2016)

When I receivedd my UM2 I took some pictures and wrote a review (in german). But anyway it may also be interesting since it has some pictures:
http://www.messerforum.net/showthre...iew-Die-Lampe-die-es-nicht-gibt-oder-nun-doch


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## RobertMM (Oct 5, 2016)

Price is down to 250!


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## FPSRelic (Oct 5, 2016)

RobertMM said:


> Price is down to 250!



I guess they're not selling as quick as they'd like.


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## WarriorOfLight (Oct 5, 2016)

I guess the same, and since the light is not on the SF website listed it is not that easy to sell 800 units. There are a lot people that even know the light really exist.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Oct 5, 2016)

RobertMM said:


> Price is down to 250!





FPSRelic said:


> I guess they're not selling as quick as they'd like.





WarriorOfLight said:


> I guess the same, and since the light is not on the SF website listed it is not that easy to sell 800 units. There are a lot people that even know the light really exist.



Yep, as I speculated earlier here:



Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> If the UM2 is like some other SureFire closeouts and limited runs, the lights will sell at list price for a while until the niche market demand is satisfied. Then they will be discounted to clear out the remaining stock. Still later, the lights will appear on the auction site for a premium price since they are now out of production collectibles. The 9-11 edition red 6PX and the 30th anniversary pen and EB1 sets are in the premium price stage of this cycle on eBay for example.



I'm sorely tempted to buy another UM2 before the price drops again. :devil:


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## gottawearshades (Oct 5, 2016)

I've been staring at this light for a while. Now I wonder how long I should wait. . . . .


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## WarriorOfLight (Oct 6, 2016)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> I'm sorely tempted to buy another UM2 before the price drops again. :devil:


I'm also thining about it too :huh:. But I have 2 UM2's and that is enough, even if the UM2 is a really great light. For me is this light the light of the year 2016. I was waiting for it since 2012 when the first version was in he 2012 Surefire brochure.... 



gottawearshades said:


> I've been staring at this light for a while. Now I wonder how long I should wait. . . . .


I would not expect the price will go under 200USD. In case the price reaches 199USD I'll take 2 or 3 additional UM2's :thumbsup:


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## RobertMM (Oct 6, 2016)

Yup I daresay 220-250 is as low as it would go but who knows? 
If I were in CONUS I'd be 250 poorer now but a lot happier.


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## LumenKing1 (Oct 6, 2016)

You guys better hurry up, I am contemplating buying 100 units.


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## WarriorOfLight (Oct 6, 2016)

LumenKing1 said:


> You guys better hurry up, I am contemplating buying 100 units.



Why only 100? A year mostly has 365 days. You have the chance to get an UM2 for every day.


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## LumenKing1 (Oct 7, 2016)

WarriorOfLight said:


> Why only 100? A year mostly has 365 days. You have the chance to get an UM2 for every day.


I was just joking. I did pick up a Surefire Titan Plus today along with a Surefire PX2, four Eneloop pro AAA's 950 Mah batteries, another box of 12 SF batteries, 12 Energizer Ultimate Lithium's, a case for AAA batteries, and they threw in another pair of shooting glasses and a 90 lumen Olight keychain light for free. Not a big spending day, but a lot of stocking stuffers.


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## JBA (Oct 19, 2016)

Wow! I didn't realize that the UM2 had finally been released. Any idea why Surefire only has one company selling it and why it's not listed even on there own website? Anyone know of any reviews (in English  ) on the UM2?


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## RobertMM (Oct 19, 2016)

JBA said:


> Wow! I didn't realize that the UM2 had finally been released. Any idea why Surefire only has one company selling it and why it's not listed even on there own website? Anyone know of any reviews (in English  ) on the UM2?



The review a few posts up can be converted (sometimes funnily) by google translate.
It is not on their site because it is out of production and all 800 limited edition units reportedly bought in bulk by a reseller. What's out there maybe the last they produce.


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## JBA (Oct 19, 2016)

RobertMM said:


> The review a few posts up can be converted (sometimes funnily) by google translate.
> It is not on their site because it is out of production and all 800 limited edition units reportedly bought in bulk by a reseller. What's out there maybe the last they produce.



Thanks for the heads up. I didn't think to try Google Translate and honestly, I was hoping not to have to go through all the trouble. And since it was a limited production run, I better grab one before it's gone. I love my U2 Ultra and I've been waiting for the updated version for sometime. Any idea why it was a limited run? Thanks again!


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## RobertMM (Oct 19, 2016)

JBA said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I didn't think to try Google Translate and honestly, I was hoping not to have to go through all the trouble. And since it was a limited production run, I better grab one before it's gone. I love my U2 Ultra and I've been waiting for the updated version for sometime. Any idea why it was a limited run? Thanks again!



Production costs, reportedly.


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## WarriorOfLight (Oct 20, 2016)

I also assume the production costs are one of the reasons only 800 units were made. I also assume this 800 devices are the devices of an stopped production run of more UM2 units. When you check the videos of the shot show 2015 you will also see the UM2 and this UM2 exactly looks like the UM2 that is available in this 800 unit limited run.

I assume when the military contract with Surefire was cancelled in 2015 Surefire was forced to reduce the total company costs. They discontinued a lot great lights in the begin of 2015. Maybe the UM2 was one of the lights that was intended for military porpose also? 

The next reason may be selector ring lights are currently "out". When you check other manufacturers you see there are no selector ring lights anymore. Niteye, Jetbeam, Sunwayman, all of this manufacturers had selector ring lighs 1-2 years ago but today no selector ring anymore. Maybe it is to expensive and compilcated to make such lights. Today it is important to have a maximum money for a minimum of production cost. Why manufacturing a selector ring light for i.e. 35USD and selling it for 150USD if you can produce a normal light with tailcap switch for 20USD and you sell it for 150USD also?


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## RobertMM (Oct 20, 2016)

Yes that's what it is, just too much money to make and not enough profit from it while other products, while certainly less versatile, are also cheaper to make and meet majority of users' needs perfectly fine.
It's like the UM2 is like a niche light now. 

I want the UM2, no mistake about that, but at that price(+horrendous shipping and customs fees in my country) I'd like it to support at least 16650 use(intended by the manufacturer or not).


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Oct 20, 2016)

WarriorOfLight said:


> When you check the videos of the shot show 2015 you will also see the UM2 and this UM2 exactly looks like the UM2 that is available in this 800 unit limited run.



Actually, the UM2 in the 2015 SHOT Show video appears to me to have a shiny instead of matte tailcap and a clip with some cutouts that aren't on the clip of my recently purchased UM2.

Also, the hash marks for the light levels on the selector ring seem to be missing as the light is picked up and turned here:

https://youtu.be/ATP-vNoxaDI?t=40

An additional small difference is the serial number on the body of the SHOT Show light. I'm guessing it begins with an 'X' but I can't quite read it in the video. The retail light I have has no serial number on the body.

Subtle clues perhaps, but maybe this indicates that UM2 production started sometime after this prototype was displayed in January 2015.



WarriorOfLight said:


> I assume when the military contract with Surefire was cancelled in 2015 Surefire was forced to reduce the total company costs. They discontinued a lot great lights in the begin of 2015. Maybe the UM2 was one of the lights that was intended for military porpose also?



That would be my guess as well. The U2 stayed on SureFire's price list for years after far more powerful small LED lights were introduced. In each of the U.S. armed services certain elite units traditionally get to specify equipment without the burdensome and long competitive bidding process for suppliers. I'm thinking that some of the snake eaters specified the U2 years ago and SureFire hoped the UM2 would be purchased as a replacement.

Anyway, to me, the UM2 has the look and feel of that long awaited U2 successor. :thumbsup:


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## jgunner1313 (Nov 4, 2016)

http://www.surefire.com/um2-ultra.html

Well it looks like SureFire is finally acknowledging the UM2 on their website. And it seems Arms Unlimited is indeed the exclusive distributor. It links directly to their product page for purchasing: https://www.armsunlimited.com/SureFire-Baby-Dominator-Variable-LED-Flashlight-p/um2-a-bk.htm


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## JBA (Nov 4, 2016)

jgunner1313 said:


> http://www.surefire.com/um2-ultra.html
> 
> Well it looks like SureFire is finally acknowledging the UM2 on their website. And it seems Arms Unlimited is indeed the exclusive distributor. It links directly to their product page for purchasing: https://www.armsunlimited.com/SureFire-Baby-Dominator-Variable-LED-Flashlight-p/um2-a-bk.htm



Thanks for sharing that, I've been wondering if Surefire would ever publish the specs on their website or not. Finally ordered mine today!


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## JBA (Nov 7, 2016)

Wow! Ordered the UM2 from Arms Unlimited late Friday morning, choose the free shipping option as I was in no hurry to receive it, and I actually got it in the mail today. The shipping info I received from Arms Unlimited was talking about a Saturday delivery date and I received it a full five days ahead of time. Impressive! 

Some quick impressions. The UM2 was wrapped in plastic and was loose inside the Surefire box with the basic Surefire paperwork/sticker, no padding, and two Surefire 123 batteries were included and inside the light. The texturing/knurling (whatever you want to call it) is pretty similar between the two lights as is the switch but that's about as far as the similarities go. The UM2 is slightly taller and the clip design is different from the U2, more along the lines of the flat metal clip of the E series lights but without the two way clip. The selector ring has hash marks denoting the output level with the lowest having a thin line marking it and each higher level having an increasingly thicker line denoting a brighter setting; each spot having a positive detent as you rotate it through the settings. This is unlike the U2 which has a smooth transition between the brightness levels. The UM2 beam is on par with my modified U2 that has the XP-G2 emitter in it, just brighter and likely with a longer throw (it's raining outside so I can't really test it). Oh another thing I should mention is that the Surefire diffuser I use for my U2 (not sure of the part number off hand) fits the UM2 perfectly! 

So far I am very impressed although I've had it all of an hour. I'll try to take some pictures whenever I get a sunny day outside comparing the two side by side. I hope to mail it off in a couple of weeks to get it bored out to accept an 18650 but I don't know if I'm ready to let it go just yet.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Nov 7, 2016)

JBA said:


> I hope to mail it off in a couple of weeks to get it bored out to accept an 18650 but I don't know if I'm ready to let it go just yet.



It looks like you will probably lose the highest level on the UM2 if you try to run it with an 18650. Some battery observations from earlier in the thread:



Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Both a Keeppower 16650 and an AW 17670 fit OK but they cycle up and down continuously on the highest selector ring setting. The 17670 is a little snug but can be pushed out since you can remove both the tail and head on this light unlike on some other recent SureFires.
> 
> AW and Olight RCR123A's work fine in my UM2.





the badger said:


> Thanks for the reply Vox!
> 
> With regards to cycling up/down on the highest mode - does it drop from level 6 to 5 and back up to 6, etc?





Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Yep, that's exactly what it does. And, the cycling seems to be very regular, as if the voltage is polled every second or so and the level is dropped if it is below some threshold. The single RCR cell voltage must be right on the low limit when on the highest selected setting. Kinda like a bistable multivibrator driven by a one Hz pulse signal. Not that there's anything wrong with that as Seinfeld would say.
> 
> Also, as the batteries run down, the light will cycle more than one level down until it reaches a steady mode. If the battery recovers somewhat, it will cycle up and start the routine again. It gives you plenty of warning to recharge or replace the batteries as they weaken.





WarriorOfLight said:


> It is the same in my two UM2 lights. I assume this is a voltage observer in the driver. The brightness change between level 5 and 6 is very regulary. I have other SF lights they really flash (between on and off) if the battery is going low.
> I think this is a battery warning feature in this light. At all it seems like the UM2 has a build in driver with a lot nice features. Maybe a thermal observation like the EB2 and E2DLU is also in this driver... !?
> 
> Currenty I did not found the courage to flip two "normal" LiIon cells in the UM2. I only tried K2 Energy LFP cells and they work perfectly in my UM2's.


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## WarriorOfLight (Nov 8, 2016)

JBA said:


> So far I am very impressed although I've had it all of an hour. I'll try to take some pictures whenever I get a sunny day outside comparing the two side by side. I hope to mail it off in a couple of weeks to get it bored out to accept an 18650 but I don't know if I'm ready to let it go just yet.


Before you try to bore it you should check if the 18650 cell will fit in the "outer threads" of the UM2 head. I'm not 100% sure, but I might checked this and found out this outer threads are not wide enough for a 18650 cell. 
The outer thread of a U2 is if I remember correctly wider than the UM2 outer threads. Both battery tubes are also not compatible. You can not put on the U2 body the UM2 head.



JBA said:


> Oh another thing I should mention is that the Surefire diffuser I use for my U2 (not sure of the part number off hand) fits the UM2 perfectly!


The Surefire Holster V91 also fits perfectly. This holster fits for Kroma / U2 and UM2. The Diffuser / Filter / Beamcover is the 1.47 Inch version FM6x


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## JBA (Nov 9, 2016)

For some reason I thought I had replied to this the other day but apparently not. So just for the heck of it, I tried a 17670 I have and at first I was elated because it was working perfectly on high! Until I realized I was on the second to the highest setting  Still plenty bright but the highest setting with the 17670 does the same thing, oscillates between two settings. From what I can tell, it looks like the 18650 would fit fine on the UM2 (after boring) with plenty of thread left. Would there be anything gained by having it bored out for the 18650? Just longer run times? Anyway, glad to see the UM2 is truly an upgrade to the U2 with the accessories working for both lights; I have both the V91 holster and the diffuser


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## RobertMM (Nov 9, 2016)

Well, bore it to 18mm and use the highest capacity 18350s around, that should work. Decent runtimes on max too.

18350 from Xtar tested by HKJ to give around 950mAh at 1Amp would give good performance.


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## StandardBattery (Nov 10, 2016)

RobertMM said:


> Well, bore it to 18mm and use the highest capacity 18350s around, that should work. Decent runtimes on max too.
> 
> 18350 from Xtar tested by HKJ to give around 950mAh at 1Amp would give good performance.


Unfortunately i don't think that battery is available anymore(rated by xtar 900mAh). They have another good one, but less capacity.


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## RobertMM (Nov 10, 2016)

Too bad, but anything over 850 mAh will give decent and flatter runtime anyway especially at max, compared to primaries.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Nov 10, 2016)

I've been running my UM2 on Olight RCR123A's since I got it. They give full output, are readily available here in the U.S. and when they weaken the UM2 gives plenty of notice by stepping down on the high levels. :twothumbs


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## kssmith (Nov 10, 2016)

I started using the Olight RCR123 batteries in mine as well, however mine is kind like the old-school Surefire, in that whenever the battery gets too low it just shuts off. I don't get a warning. It actually scared me to first time that it happened. I thought that something had destroyed my light.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Nov 10, 2016)

kssmith said:


> I started using the Olight RCR123 batteries in mine as well, however mine is kind like the old-school Surefire, in that whenever the battery gets too low it just shuts off. I don't get a warning. It actually scared me to first time that it happened. I thought that something had destroyed my light.



I don't run my UM2 on the highest setting for long so maybe that's why it doesn't shut down abruptly. I do have a 200 lumen EB1 that will suddenly go dark on high with the Olight RCR's, I'm guessing the battery PTC module gets triggered thermally rather than by low voltage in this case.

I'm saving my primary CR123A's for Y3K.  But it is great to have rechargeables for normal use and be able to fall back on primaries in case you are away from a charging source for a while.


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## Mr.Freeze (Jan 13, 2017)

...got mine today:


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## sledhead (Jan 13, 2017)

Congrats on a great pair Mr. Freeze! Been thinking about picking one up to complement my Dominator also. Have the new Minimus on the way so the UM2 will have to wait a while. Nothing like the Dominator! :thumbsup:


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## Mr.Freeze (Jan 14, 2017)

thank you!

well, the dominator is really impressive. 
the details of both, are what i expect from surefire! it's really state of the art.


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## WarriorOfLight (Jan 14, 2017)

Gunter, also I have to say you have a great pair of Surefires! I also love my UM2. For me it is the best flashlight I bought in 2016 . Also nice to see there are Dominators in Germany ...


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## Mr.Freeze (Jan 14, 2017)

thank you!

the um2 was not official sold here in germany! at the end of 2016 i was very close to order from arms unlimited and as though by chance this one appears around here.

well, some guys suggest the brightes place in germany is 48°51' N / 8°33' E :naughty:


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## Genna (Jan 14, 2017)

Mr.Freeze said:


> well, some guys suggest the brightes place in germany is 48°51' N / 8°33' E :naughty:



The same I've heard about 48° 56' N / 9° 11' E [emoji41]

Do you think we can "see" us? [emoji848]






About the UM2...one of my next targets !


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## sledhead (Jan 14, 2017)

Genna, the UM2 will sit nicely in the Hellfighter handle! Dream set there.........:thumbsup:


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## K2-bk-bl-rd (Jan 14, 2017)

It's nice to see so many SureFire Dominators! I bet if we all turned ours on, we could signal one another


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## Mr.Freeze (Jan 15, 2017)

@ genna: wow - really nice!

...could be possible to "see" each other. but imagine how many people will call 110 (911) in case of a "bright whatever" moving very fast in the dark sky... *lol*


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## Genna (Jan 15, 2017)

sledhead said:


> Genna, the UM2 will sit nicely in the Hellfighter handle! Dream set there.........:thumbsup:



Awesome idea! Thank you [emoji1303][emoji1303]




K2-bk-bl-rd said:


> It's nice to see so many SureFire Dominators! I bet if we all turned ours on, we could signal one another



I think a try is worth! [emoji41]




Mr.Freeze said:


> @ genna: wow - really nice!
> 
> ...could be possible to "see" each other. but imagine how many people will call 110 (911) in case of a "bright whatever" moving very fast in the dark sky... *lol*



Thank you! You're right! In Stuttgart I see sometimes in the night a beam appears...it seems I'm not alone [emoji23]


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## WarriorOfLight (Jan 15, 2017)

Genna said:


> Awesome idea! Thank you [emoji1303][emoji1303]Thank you! You're right! In Stuttgart I see sometimes in the night a beam appears...it seems I'm not alone [emoji23]



Youbare definately not alone, maybe I should use my Dominator more often  I am also in the Stuttgart area.


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## JohnSmith (Jan 16, 2017)

I took the plunge and ordered one of these lights. I didn't even know they existed until stumbling into this thread a few days ago, but I really like the older Surefire styling and especially the selector ring. I previously owned a UB3T and a UNR Commander and loved the selector rings on those, but those lights were just too large and I found myself not using them much. The UM2 appears to be that same great concept but scaled down into a more reasonably sized light, and something I would be more likely to carry on my person.

Another feature (or lack thereof) I appreciate about the UM2 is the absence of blinking modes like strobe or SOS. I have no real use for these modes and they were too easy to activate on the UNR and UB3T.

And as I typed, I just received the shipping notification for my UM2. Pretty excited for this one.


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## Ash247 (Jan 19, 2017)

Took the plunge and got one of these lights, arrived today. I was wondering has anyone had any luck removing the pocket clip, it looks like it is held on with a "nut" around the battery body, but even after applying a reasonable amount of pressure it will not move.

Before I go full out on it I thought I'd ask here for any advice.


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## JohnSmith (Jan 20, 2017)

I received mine, and it really does feel like a member of the UNR Commander / UB3T family. Just scaled down, the smallest member of the group. 

Beautiful matte black anodizing.
Nice positive detents for the selector ring. 
Feels great in the hand. 
Perfect crenellations, not too long and not sharp at all. 
It's a little big for EDC use, but I also feel that way about the P2X Fury which is only slightly shorter than the UM2. It's a perfect size for sliding into a bag or jacket pocket. 
The beam is a nice mixture of throw and spill. 

She's a winner in my opinion!

Here is the current I measured at the tailcap for each of the levels (accuracy +/- 2.0%):
Stage 1: 5 lumens - 0.03 A
Stage 2: 15 lumens - 0.04 A
Stage 3: 50 lumens - 0.09 A
Stage 4: 100 lumens - 0.16 A
Stage 5: 350 lumens - 0.57 A
Stage 6: 600 lumens - 1.15 A


----------



## phoenixcatapult (Jan 21, 2017)

I test UM2 with two rechargable 16340(3.7V 700mAh) and 16650 (3.7V 2500mAh).
16340:
UM2 600lm 1 hour.
320lm 1 hr 40 mins.
100lm 5 hrs.
16650:
100lm barely 5 hrs.


----------



## RobertMM (Jan 21, 2017)

phoenixcatapult said:


> I test UM2 with two rechargable 16340(3.7V 700mAh) and 16650 (3.7V 2500mAh).
> 16340:
> UM2 600lm 1 hour.
> 320lm 1 hr 40 mins.
> ...



What brand 16340 did you use? 
Thanks for your efforts.


----------



## phoenixcatapult (Jan 21, 2017)

RobertMM said:


> What brand 16340 did you use?
> Thanks for your efforts.


Robert,you're welcome.
Fenix 16340,3.7V 2.59wh.
ARB-L16-700. 
pretty satisfied with its performance so far.


----------



## Illluminator (Jan 29, 2017)

So the included manual says it has a 1.5 hour runtime on high but the SF website lists 1.1 hours? Which is accurate?


----------



## kj2 (Jan 29, 2017)

Specs on the website will be more accurate. They can change the specifications on their site, the manual is already printed.


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Jan 29, 2017)

Illluminator said:


> So the included manual says it has a 1.5 hour runtime on high but the SF website lists 1.1 hours? Which is accurate?



The website listing has this note (but I couldn't find the other asterisk):



> *Runtime until output drops below 10% of maximum output at this setting



The 2017 SF catalog identifies this as compliant with the ANSI/NEMA FL1 standards:



> ANSI/NEMA FL1 Standards: Runtimes until output drops below
> 10% of initial output for a given setting.



I've always thought this might mislead folks into thinking that the max output lasted a lot longer than it really does on some lights.

Anyway, the UM2 is a worthy successor to the U2, too bad it's been discontinued. :sigh:


----------



## RobertMM (Jan 30, 2017)

Too bad both of them have been discontinued.

800 units is just too few, hopefully one finds its way to me.


----------



## WarriorOfLight (Jan 30, 2017)

RobertMM said:


> hopefully one finds its way to me.


At ebay there are still ~40 units left. Therefore you will still have the chance getting one. :naughty:


----------



## RobertMM (Jan 30, 2017)

WarriorOfLight said:


> At ebay there are still ~40 units left. Therefore you will still have the chance getting one. :naughty:



No Paypal, so I can only buy from B&M stores here.
I'm from Asia BTW.


----------



## JohnSmith (Jan 30, 2017)

There are still 689 in stock at Arms Unlimited. Based on the inventory change since I purchased mine a few weeks ago, they're only selling several a week. We'll all be dead and buried before these sell out. Perhaps they'll eventually try to unload them in some sort of clearance sale. I'd buy another if it came to that.


----------



## RobertMM (Jan 30, 2017)

Hahaha dead and buried by the time these sell out, now that sounds inspiring.


----------



## mebiuspower (Jan 30, 2017)

I still have my U2 Ultra and it's currently getting modded by Nitroz... it's only $65 to upgrade to XP-L emitter that outputs ~450 lumens.


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Jan 30, 2017)

mebiuspower said:


> I still have my U2 Ultra and it's currently getting modded by Nitroz... it's only $65 to upgrade to XP-L emitter that outputs 475 lumens.



Wow, I've got a new in the box U2 that I might send for modding at that price. I modded a U2 to an XP-G a few years ago using instructions I found here on CPF but I would gladly pay to have someone else do the next one.

I love most of the UM2 cosmetics except the greenish tint which seems to be standard on many recent SureFires.

The OLight RCR123A's seem to go dark instantly sometimes on high in the UM2 and in EB1's and EB2's. When the cells were new it seemed that the UM2 would always step down as the batteries weakened giving plenty of warning. Now, they appear at times to shut down abruptly after a while on high and will not recover at all until recharged.


----------



## WarriorOfLight (Jan 31, 2017)

JohnSmith said:


> There are still 689 in stock at Arms Unlimited.


I was expecting something like that. The UM2 is a light most people do not know it really exist. Even if the UM2 is on the SF website since a couple of month a lot people missed this light. The second reason it is not cheap china junk and finally I have the feeling lights with selector ring are completely out. Some years ago Niteye, Jetbeam, Sunwayman, ... all had selector ring lights. Today there are not really a lot selector ring lights on the market...

Currently I'm hoping the price will go down to ~200USD, than I'd grad two additional UM2s


----------



## mebiuspower (Feb 1, 2017)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Wow, I've got a new in the box U2 that I might send for modding at that price. I modded a U2 to an XP-G a few years ago using instructions I found here on CPF but I would gladly pay to have someone else do the next one.
> 
> I love most of the UM2 cosmetics except the greenish tint which seems to be standard on many recent SureFires.



I'm going to get it back soon hopefully but I think it's worth it. $65 vs $250 for a new light that is pretty much the same.

Dimension/weight of the UM2 is no different than U2, other than changing some of the aesthetics and clicking in on each stage, it's basically a U2 with an updated emitter.


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Feb 1, 2017)

mebiuspower said:


> Dimension/weight of the UM2 is no different than U2, other than changing some of the aesthetics and clicking in on each stage, it's basically a U2 with an updated emitter.



I hadn't used my modded U2 for a while until I saw your earlier post on this thread and found the light in a drawer. It has the 'old' XP-G LED that only puts out maybe 250 lumens on high. But it has a warm emitter and a beautiful beam with plenty of spill. The action on the U2 level switch is silky smooth and the mod runs great on a single 16650 cell.

The U2 is a little shorter than the UM2 and the UM2 has that extra level of throw for spotting wildlife in the back forty. They are both great lights in my opinion.

Let us know how you like your Nitroz modded U2. :thumbsup:


----------



## JBA (Feb 1, 2017)

mebiuspower said:


> I still have my U2 Ultra and it's currently getting modded by Nitroz... it's only $65 to upgrade to XP-L emitter that outputs 475 lumens.



He did mine about 2 years ago and it's great to hear that the prices haven't gone up. Still a great light with the new emitter and I find myself using it regularly still.


----------



## Genna (Feb 6, 2017)




----------



## sledhead (Feb 6, 2017)

Great picture..congrats. If I did not just buy a Minimus and Maximus my Dominator would have a companion by now!


----------



## mebiuspower (Feb 10, 2017)

Got my U2 back last night and I'm very happy with the result. Beam has the same spill but with much more neutral tint. The power ring works as designed. Never had any of my lights modded before but I highly recommended it!

As per Nitroz:



> The exsposure on the beamshot is stepped down so that it would not be washed out. Both lights are on high.


----------



## WarriorOfLight (Feb 10, 2017)

mebiuspower said:


> Got my U2 back last night and I'm very happy with the result. Beam has the same spill but with much more neutral tint. The power ring works as designed. Never had any of my lights modded before but I highly recommended it!


The beam looks really nice. Looks like a really cool modded U2, and most important it stil works like the original U2. :twothumbs:twothumbs


----------



## RobertMM (Feb 10, 2017)

Is that XPL, Mebiuspower?

Looks like close to or more than 500 lumens, if the older one for comparison is 140 lumens.


----------



## mebiuspower (Feb 10, 2017)

RobertMM said:


> Is that XPL, Mebiuspower?
> 
> Looks like close to or more than 500 lumens, if the older one for comparison is 140 lumens.



Yes it's the XPL vs. the LuxV (100 lumens).


----------



## Daniel_sk (Mar 16, 2017)

I am very tempted to buy the UM2  (haven't bought any flashlight for years). Can anyone provide realistic runtimes on rechargeable batteries vs primary batteries? Are 16340 the best option here? (I want to be able to use the highest setting). Also a bit offtopic - but what's the best brand for 16340? Thanks.


----------



## Daniel_sk (Apr 10, 2017)

Surefire UM2 has arrived in Slovakia .


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## sledhead (Apr 11, 2017)

Glad it made the trip!


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## DAN92 (Apr 12, 2017)

Very nice picture Daniel', I'm tempted by this UM2.


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## Genna (Apr 25, 2017)

Tailcap swap


----------



## AR_Shorty (Apr 25, 2017)

Genna said:


> Tailcap swap



What tailcap is that?


----------



## Genna (Apr 25, 2017)

AR_Shorty said:


> What tailcap is that?



A matte Z59 from a Fury


----------



## GarageBoy (Apr 26, 2017)

Selector ring with distinct modes makes way more sense the infinitely variable - for the sole purpose of a predictable runtime (with ininitely variable, a *little* more brightness dialed up can cost you a decent amount of runtime and you wouldn't even know it) - Wish this wasn't so huge

BTW: I'm assuming this is a XML light?


----------



## JohnnyBravo (May 29, 2017)

Do we know w/ certainty that this light has been discontinued? I see that it's still on SF's website.


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## WarriorOfLight (May 29, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> Do we know w/ certainty that this light has been discontinued? I see that it's still on SF's website.



There exist 800 units, currently at ArmsUnlimited ~500 are left. You can check it if you place an order of i.e. 800 lights. The shop will adjust the number of lights to the max. available lights. There is no address input or login neccesary to test this.

At all I assume the stock will last till mid of 2018. But since the UM2 is a great light if you wait too long you will waste a lot of lifetime without an UM2


----------



## JohnnyBravo (May 29, 2017)

Recently, it looks like Arms Unlimited is selling 1-2 per week; and I think they have about 506 units left. At this rate, I have time to save up to buy it for my birthday next March. I'll be 50, and this light would be Flag$hip light in my collection...


----------



## ABTOMAT (Jul 12, 2017)

How's the UM2 compare to the UB3T in use? I have an older UB3T and a very early U2 and killing two birds with one stone would be nice if it could keep up with the 3T's range.


----------



## WarriorOfLight (Jul 13, 2017)

ABTOMAT said:


> ... would be nice if it could keep up with the 3T's range.


There were two UB3T 800 lumens verson, with narrow and wider optics. The UB3T with narrow optics has definately a larger beam distance.


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Jul 15, 2017)

DOH! Just looked at it at Arms Unlimited. They dropped the price another $45!

Does anyone know that the UM2 stands for, particularly the UM part?


----------



## sledhead (Jul 15, 2017)

Thanks for the heads up...guess I'll be shopping tomorrow. :thumbsup:


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Jul 15, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> DOH! Just looked at it at Arms Unlimited. They dropped the price another $45!



Ouch, I wish I hadn't seen that. 

Maybe I'd better buy another UM2 before the price drops even more. :huh:

It's a great light, a little greenish on the tint but has the look and feel of a classic PK SureFire with the matte black finish and the beautiful CNC knurling. :thumbsup:


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## kj2 (Jul 16, 2017)

Great price now! To bad it's still 250 on eBay. Send them a message if the price there would also drop.


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## JohnnyBravo (Jul 16, 2017)

Sigh. Set up the cart, entered payment information, and my right index finger could not click to buy it last night. I'll wait one more day to see if I can do it! Plus, it'd be nice in a way, to order it on 7.17.17 - I have a little thing for numbers...


----------



## Tribull (Jul 16, 2017)

Did the same thing, as cool as this light is even with the price drop I can't justify it.


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## KeyGrip (Jul 16, 2017)

Crap if they're still in stock after this week's payday I might be in trouble.


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## Lodogg2221 (Aug 1, 2017)

phoenixcatapult said:


> I test UM2 with two rechargable 16340(3.7V 700mAh) and 16650 (3.7V 2500mAh).
> 16340:
> UM2 600lm 1 hour.
> 320lm 1 hr 40 mins.
> ...



Do I read that right? The 16650 was 100lm max? 
Ive been looking for a rechargeable solution for my UM2, and if thats the case, I guess I need to go the 16340 route.


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## WarriorOfLight (Aug 2, 2017)

Lodogg2221 said:


> Do I read that right? The 16650 was 100lm max?


Also 320lm should work for a shorter time. At least my UM2 works on level 5 with a 16650 cell without problem. On level 6 the light blinks between 600lm and 320lm. It is very regulary, therefore I assume it might be a low batery warning...!?


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## RobertMM (Aug 2, 2017)

Yes, probably a low battery warning by the light sensing the voltage and thinking it has partially depleted CR123 inside it. 

Is the tube thick enough to bore to 18+mm?
If so, with 18350 cells now exceeding 1100mAh using a pair of those could be the best rechargeable option for the UM2.


----------



## K2-bk-bl-rd (Aug 6, 2017)

Did arms unlimited raise their price back up? I was thinking of getting one. The google page shows sale price $200, but when you click on the website, it's listed for $245.


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## JohnnyBravo (Aug 6, 2017)

Yes, the sale ended. And that's why it seems that their inventory of 472 has stood still for a few days now.


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## rjking (Sep 2, 2017)

Heads up! $199 for a limited time. :twothumbs


----------



## fordcappy (Sep 2, 2017)

Thanks brother !!


----------



## dlrflyer (Sep 7, 2017)

Mine is on the way! There are 450 left, no big rush. I suspect next year it will drop even further, or maybe Black Friday.


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## Beard Man (Sep 8, 2017)

dlrflyer said:


> There are 450 left



Just curious , where did you find that info , I can't see it on ArmLimited page ?

Here is mine!



9-8-17-1 by VaDimZH, on Flickr



9-8-17-2 by VaDimZH, on Flickr


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## JohnSmith (Sep 8, 2017)

Beard Man said:


> Just curious , where did you find that info , I can't see it on ArmLimited page ?



Put 999 in your cart, it will tell you how many are available to buy. You can check the inventory on many websites with this technique.


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## Beard Man (Sep 8, 2017)

JohnSmith said:


> Put 999 in your cart, it will tell you how many are available to buy. You can check the inventory on many websites with this technique.



Cool, thanks! 

Now 449


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## JohnSmith (Sep 8, 2017)

Beard Man said:


> Cool, thanks!
> 
> Now 449



Glad to help. Great pics! I have one of these great-looking lights myself...


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## Beard Man (Sep 9, 2017)

JohnSmith said:


> Great pics! I have one of these great-looking lights myself...



Thank you!

The light is awesome!


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## marinemaster (Sep 10, 2017)

WarriorOfLight said:


> Also 320lm should work for a shorter time. At least my UM2 works on level 5 with a 16650 cell without problem. On level 6 the light blinks between 600lm and 320lm. It is very regulary, therefore I assume it might be a low batery warning...!?



Good info. Appreciated.


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## vadimax (Sep 23, 2017)

What about tint and LED position issues? Are they often?


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## Beard Man (Oct 14, 2017)

Replace original Surefire clicky Z59 (NOT twisty) with McClicky,
works great,I like it much more than Surefire clicky Z59,
purchased it here,McClicky,brass adapter, two boots and one small o-ring for $15.99 : http://www.ebay.com/itm/EDCPlus-McC...453869?hash=item35fc7f162d:g:DEgAAOSwZQxW3Xr~
there is also a set with copper adapter,but the price for set with copper adapter is $18.99,the brass works just great for me.
The Surefire Z59 was replaced with Kobalt needle nose pliers,puchased in Lowe's for $7.98 + Tax


----------



## RobertMM (Oct 15, 2017)

Anyone bored theirs for 18mm?

I'm thinking the latest 1100mAh 18350 cells would rock in a bored UM-2.


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## WarriorOfLight (Oct 15, 2017)

RobertMM said:


> Anyone bored theirs for 18mm?


This will not work, you can check it on your UM2!

Unscrew Head and Body. Now take a 18650 or 18350 battery and hold this battery to the threads on the head. You will see the Battery will not fit into this threads, and if you bore this threads the remeining material would not be enough...

In comparsion, with a U2, the 18650 battery will fit into the same threads since the inner of the threads are wider and do not Need any modification for 18650 cells. Only the Body Needs to be bored...


----------



## RobertMM (Oct 16, 2017)

Bummer. 
So, it looks like Fenix and Klarus 16340s are the best options for rechargeables for now, with their 700+mAh(by HKJ) capacities.


----------



## Modernflame (Oct 16, 2017)

RobertMM said:


> Bummer.
> So, it looks like Fenix and Klarus 16340s are the best options for rechargeables for now, with their 700+mAh(by HKJ) capacities.



Buzz kill.


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## Beard Man (Oct 17, 2017)

I use [FONT=&quot]*K2 Energy LFP123A Rechargeable Li Ion 3.2V Battery*[/FONT] on my Surefire UM2 Ultra and charge it with Nitcore D2,so far so good! :twothumbs


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Oct 19, 2017)

WHOA! They just dropped it down to $150


----------



## the0dore3524 (Oct 19, 2017)

Jeez I think I'm sold. Thanks for the heads up dude.


----------



## fordcappy (Oct 19, 2017)

Same here. Thanks very much. Order placed.


----------



## Beard Man (Oct 19, 2017)

Crazy! I paid $199 for mine a month ago!

If only I know...

NOW its $150 

Why they drop the price so low ?


----------



## the0dore3524 (Oct 19, 2017)

Beard Man said:


> Crazy! I paid $199 for mine a month ago!
> 
> If only I know...
> 
> ...




Simple case of overstock; they want to clear them out. I managed to get quite a lot of LX2s at Galls when they did the same. $43 each! Crazy good deal and I ended up buying about eight.

Well, I just ordered mine as well as some batteries because it seems this one is going to need them. Hopefully they'll arrive on Monday; I haven't been this excited for a light in a while. [emoji39]


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Oct 19, 2017)

Argh! On one hand I really would like to own a "selector ring" light by SF. But I prefer floody/orange peel type beams over TIR/throw. And I understand the tint is a bit on the cool side - not so neutral. Sigh, I'll sleep on it tonight and see if my right index finger will be willing to click onto PLACE ORDER tomorrow...


----------



## Beard Man (Oct 20, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> Argh! On one hand I really would like to own a "selector ring" light by SF. But I prefer floody/orange peel type beams over TIR/throw. And I understand the tint is a bit on the cool side - not so neutral. Sigh, I'll sleep on it tonight and see if my right index finger will be willing to click onto PLACE ORDER tomorrow...



Well, I have P1R Peacekeeper 600/15 mode and UM2 Ultra, and my P1R Peacekeeper a little brighter than UM2,

and I like beam color on P1R Peacekeeper more than on UM2,

maybe because P1R Peacekeeper have an orange peel reflector and UM2 TIR ? :shrug:


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Oct 20, 2017)

Beard Man, I too have the dual mode Peacekeeper. It's my main nightstand light. How much have you been using the UM2 for the past month? I'm concerned that if I get the UM2, it may sit around collecting dust. Also, I can't find any candela or meters of throw for the UM2 - does anyone know?


----------



## Jose Marin (Oct 20, 2017)

The manual said 13kcd i believe and i measured 15kcd with my cheapo meter. Beam very similar to eb2/e2d


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Oct 20, 2017)

Thanks Jose. So at 15k candela, that's around 245 meters of throw. Not too shabby...


----------



## kssmith (Oct 20, 2017)

I’ve had the UM2 for ~1year and use it frequently. I let it sit for a few months collecting some dust, but went back to it. I stopped for a bit mainly because of its size when I bought the e1b mv. But Overall it may still be my favorite light. I use rcr123s in it since on high it’s kind of a battery hog.


----------



## the0dore3524 (Oct 23, 2017)

Got my UM2 today! This thing is definitely the biggest 2-cell light I've ever seen. Not sure I'm exactly a fan of it because there's no way it's ever going into my EDC rotation, but build quality seems excellent and on par with what one would normally expect from SureFire. I wish it had come with an outer box like the other lights come with...just like the presentation more and would have been cool. Overall, good first impressions. I'm sure it'll make a great camping or emergency light.


----------



## the badger (Oct 24, 2017)

the0dore3524 said:


> This thing is definitely the biggest 2-cell light I've ever seen. Not sure I'm exactly a fan of it because there's no way it's ever going into my EDC rotation...



5.11 Apex Pants should solve this with ease


----------



## JBA (Oct 24, 2017)

Just got an email that Arms Unlimited has dropped the price again to $150. I'm going to have to order a spare one now


----------



## Going_Supernova (Oct 24, 2017)

JBA said:


> Just got an email that Arms Unlimited has dropped the price again to $150. I'm going to have to order a spare one now



See post #247 above...


----------



## PseudoFed (Oct 24, 2017)

Yep. Paid a little more for my first two from Arms. Just ordered two more. Going in the truck and EDC bag....


----------



## the badger (Oct 24, 2017)

PseudoFed said:


> Yep. Paid a little more for my first two from Arms. Just ordered two more. Going in the truck and EDC bag....



Do you use them often or just as a backup for your kits in your car, home etc? I’m curious about your runtime experience with the 2x 123A on high mode.


----------



## PseudoFed (Oct 24, 2017)

They're all too new to tell. I run primaries. Have one at bedside and I carry one in cargo pant/shorts tool pocket or pocket of 5.11 pants about 1/2 the time. Only had them couple months and no battery changes yet. Incredible lights if maybe pushing limits of EDC.


----------



## the badger (Oct 24, 2017)

Nice. Yes they’re definitely a bit large (well, the head is) for EDC, however I’ve found that my 5.11 Apex pants work well for that as I utilize one of the magazine pockets within the main cargo pockets to keep it upright and out of the way. Works like a charm


----------



## JBA (Oct 25, 2017)

Going_Supernova said:


> See post #247 above...



LOL! I looked, just didn't look that far back. Plus I just got the email today


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Oct 25, 2017)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> If the UM2 is like some other SureFire closeouts and limited runs, the lights will sell at list price for a while until the niche market demand is satisfied. Then they will be discounted to clear out the remaining stock. Still later, the lights will appear on the auction site for a premium price since they are now out of production collectibles. The 9-11 edition red 6PX and the 30th anniversary pen and EB1 sets are in the premium price stage of this cycle on eBay for example.





RobertMM said:


> Price is down to 250!





Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> I'm sorely tempted to buy another UM2 before the price drops again. :devil:





WarriorOfLight said:


> I would not expect the price will go under 200USD. In case the price reaches 199USD I'll take 2 or 3 additional UM2's :thumbsup:







JohnnyBravo said:


> DOH! Just looked at it at Arms Unlimited. They dropped the price another $45!





Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Ouch, I wish I hadn't seen that.





Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Maybe I'd better buy another UM2 before the price drops even more.:huh:






K2-bk-bl-rd said:


> Did arms unlimited raise their price back up? I was thinking of getting one. The google page shows sale price $200, but when you click on the website, it's listed for $245.





JohnnyBravo said:


> Yes, the sale ended. And that's why it seems that their inventory of 472 has stood still for a few days now.





rjking said:


> Heads up! $199 for a limited time. :twothumbs






JohnnyBravo said:


> WHOA! They just dropped it down to $150


​
OK , I just got a 'spare' UM2.


----------



## archimedes (Oct 25, 2017)

Just a friendly reminder that the general discussion forums here are not the proper location to promote any particular retailer, or "Good Deals" , or similar ...


----------



## JBA (Oct 25, 2017)

archimedes said:


> Just a friendly reminder that the general discussion forums here are not the proper location to promote any particular retailer, or "Good Deals" , or similar ...



But what if they are the ONLY retailer  

That being said, totally understand and I won't do it again.


----------



## vadimax (Oct 26, 2017)

I guess this price drop might mean that SF is ready to release 800lm UM2.


----------



## WarriorOfLight (Oct 26, 2017)

vadimax said:


> I guess this price drop might mean that SF is ready to release 800lm UM2.


I don't think so. The UM2 was a kind of a "small production" run or an "aborted production" run due to momey savings after the US Government drops SF as manufacturer... 

The UM2 is only sold by AU. I assume the reason of this price drop is the UM2 is not a good selling item. At all I would not expect a new SF selector ring flashlight in the next time. When I check the flashlight market it seems selector ring is totally "out"!


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Oct 28, 2017)

On SF's site, they just mention the TIR optic; but on Arms Unlimited's site, they mention it has a tempered window. Tempered window usually refers to a "glass" material not polycarbonate/plastic correct? Would someone with this light confirm the material of the lens?


----------



## WDR65 (Oct 29, 2017)

WarriorOfLight said:


> I don't think so. The UM2 was a kind of a "small production" run or an "aborted production" run due to momey savings after the US Government drops SF as manufacturer...
> 
> The UM2 is only sold by AU. I assume the reason of this price drop is the UM2 is not a good selling item. At all I would not expect a new SF selector ring flashlight in the next time. When I check the flashlight market it seems selector ring is totally "out"!



Which is sad in my opinion. I had high hopes for a e series sized light for a long time. To this day I think this is one of the best ui’s available. Followed closely by the infinitely variable type. Click through ui’s are alright but are never completely smooth operating.


----------



## Beard Man (Oct 29, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> On SF's site, they just mention the TIR optic; but on Arms Unlimited's site, they mention it has a tempered window. Tempered window usually refers to a "glass" material not polycarbonate/plastic correct? Would someone with this light confirm the material of the lens?



Its a TIR optic behind a glass.

Up front you see a tempered glass, and behind the glass is a TIR optic.

Ask me how I know this.

---------------------------------------------

I drop my P1R Peacekeeper on concrete, which have only tempered glass , the bezel was bended and glass cracked.

Sure,it was my fault.

My guess its never happen with Elzetta AVS head, which have only plastic TIR optic.

The light itself,P1R Peacekeeper, is great and I like it more than UM2 Ultra,especially beam profile and color tint.


----------



## Modernflame (Oct 29, 2017)

Beard Man said:


> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> I drop my P1R Peacekeeper on concrete, which have only tempered glass , the bezel was bended and glass cracked.
> 
> ...



Surefire needs to fix that for you. You paid for a high end light and the warranty should cover it.


----------



## Beard Man (Oct 29, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> Surefire needs to fix that for you. You paid for a high end light and the warranty should cover it.



I emailed Surefire 4 days ago, never had a response.


----------



## mk2rocco (Oct 29, 2017)

Beard Man said:


> I emailed Surefire 4 days ago, never had a response.


I always call. You'll be on hold for a while but they will take care of you.


----------



## the0dore3524 (Oct 29, 2017)

Beard Man said:


> I emailed Surefire 4 days ago, never had a response.



Yes, calling is the way to go. Don't expect them to follow-up on emails! [emoji38]


----------



## asdalton (Oct 29, 2017)

Here are three lights side by side. The UM2 is only about 0.5" longer than the U2, but the selector ring is wider. It definitely feels like a bigger flashlight.


----------



## Modernflame (Oct 29, 2017)

I remember my U2 Ultra fondly. May it rest in peace in its watery grave at the bottom of the Mississippi River.


----------



## the0dore3524 (Oct 29, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> I remember my U2 Ultra fondly. May it rest in peace in its watery grave at the bottom of the Mississippi River.



That sounds like a story. How'd that happen? :0


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Oct 29, 2017)

Please if somebody knows... What does the UM and U stand for in UM2 and U2?


----------



## Modernflame (Oct 29, 2017)

the0dore3524 said:


> That sounds like a story. How'd that happen? :0



Nothing noteworthy. This involved a knuckle headed friend, a camping trip, and a "what's-the-big-deal-it's-just-a-flashlight" moment. He survived because I did not want to go to prison. That was 2009.:shakehead


----------



## Beard Man (Oct 30, 2017)

Today I received an email from Surefire about my P1R Peacekeeper with cracked glass (post #274): 

*"Physical damage is not covered under warranty. It looks like it took a big hit."
*
Well..I agree because it was my fault...

What I like about custom lights or Malkoff/Elzetta: I can replace any parts if I want or need it.


----------



## KentuckyMike (Oct 30, 2017)

Beard Man said:


> Today I received an email from Surefire about my P1R Peacekeeper with cracked glass (post #274):
> 
> *"Physical damage is not covered under warranty. It looks like it took a big hit."
> *
> Well..I agree because it was my fault...



The last time I got an answer like that, I replied with, "As I expected. It was entirely my fault, but since it has a 'non-removable head' I cannot fix it. What would the charges be to have it repaired?" To which SF said, "We only fix or replace lights under warranty. Sorry." They did offer 10% off (of full retail price) on a new one. As of today, I no longer own any SF's (save for the 9P with M61NLL in the kitchen cupboard for power outages). If you take away the modularity of your lights, and also refuse to provide replacement parts when asked (even when I offer to pay for it), I could no longer justify the price. 

That being said...the UM2's UI is absolutely ideal for me, and it has me tempted to bring a SF back into the house. I don't know how I feel about a one-off run like this. Chances are it'll last forever. But if not, support would be next to impossible.


----------



## Modernflame (Oct 30, 2017)

Beard Man said:


> Today I received an email from Surefire about my P1R Peacekeeper with cracked glass (post #274):
> 
> *"Physical damage is not covered under warranty. It looks like it took a big hit."
> *
> ...



Personally, I think that a light as expensive as a SF ought to be able to survive a drop. I also think (just one guy's opinion) that a broken lens should not amount to the death of a flashlight. 

You're quite right about Malkoff. While I've never broken one, I do stock extra lenses, switch components, tail caps, O-rings, etc. A broken lens on a Malkoff is a problem that can be solved for <$10.


----------



## Beard Man (Oct 31, 2017)

KentuckyMike said:


> " They did offer 10% off (of full retail price) on a new one.



I can get a NEW one with 20% off from OpticsPlanet.

BTW, I have no desire to buy another Surefire...


----------



## Beard Man (Oct 31, 2017)

Modernflame said:


> You're quite right about Malkoff. While I've never broken one, I do stock* extra lenses, switch components, tail caps, O-rings, etc. A broken lens on a Malkoff is a problem that can be solved for <$10.*



Agreed!


----------



## KentuckyMike (Oct 31, 2017)

Beard Man said:


> I can get a NEW one with 20% off from OpticsPlanet.
> 
> BTW, I have no desire to buy another Surefire...



Yep. That's exactly why I sold all mine and went with Malkoff replacements. Like MF, I keep a few o-rings, lenses, and a switch kit (which, handily, works for any of my MDx, HD, and MDC lights) in the drawer. No more worries about a dropped or damaged light. To avoid going too far off-topic, though, the UI on the UM2 is perfect. It's about the only multi-mode (other than a high-low) that I would consider today, so it is tempting me at this price. We'll see.


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Nov 1, 2017)

To any UM2 owner: In various photos, it appears that the tailcap is a flat/matte black finish while the body seems to be a bit more shiny or satin color. Is this the case? Of my 3 SFs: 6P, P1R, and EB1 - the tailcap's finish matches the body etc...


----------



## Daniel_sk (Nov 1, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> To any UM2 owner: In various photos, it appears that the tailcap is a flat/matte black finish while the body seems to be a bit more shiny or satin color. Is this the case? Of my 3 SFs: 6P, P1R, and EB1 - the tailcap's finish matches the body etc...


I looked at my pictures of the UM2 and the tailcap is a bit more matte finish then the rest. I didn't notice this by looking at the flashlight, it's exaggerated in the pictures.

I sold my UM2, it's a nice looking flashlight for a good price after the discounts. But it's really big and heavy for a 2 cell flashlight. And I had to add a big SF flip-diffuser to make it more useable in close range. I personally don't need that many output levels so the selector ring was just adding to the size + complexity. Also it would not work on the highest setting on a 16650. My personal opinion .


----------



## Stainz (Nov 1, 2017)

You folks are evil! A UM2 Ultra mini-Dominator for $150 shipped - from AU - a no-brainer. That's right - I have no brain - certified recently by a neurologist after reviewing the MRI of my noggin, he said, "I see nothing!". And... it can't be _that_ big... it must be more of an EDC than my LB3T Invictus!! Now the wait...

What is the difference between the UM2 and the UM2 Ultra? 

Speaking of *AU... WAR EAGLE!*

Stainz (AU '75)


----------



## Lumen83 (Nov 1, 2017)

Beard Man said:


> Today I received an email from Surefire about my P1R Peacekeeper with cracked glass (post #274):
> 
> *"Physical damage is not covered under warranty. It looks like it took a big hit."
> *
> ...



That really stinks. Surefire is currently fixing a light with a cracked lens for me. Not sure what the difference is between yours and mine.
T


----------



## Beard Man (Nov 1, 2017)

Lumen83 said:


> That really stinks. Surefire is currently fixing a light with a cracked lens for me. Not sure what the difference is between yours and mine.
> T



My guess is this: "*It looks like it took a big hit."


*Edited: last replay from Surefire: *"[FONT=&quot]A physically damaged lens is not a manufacturer defect. If you would like to send it in so our repair techs can attempt repairs, you can, but it is not a warranty issue."[/FONT]*


----------



## Lumen83 (Nov 1, 2017)

Beard Man said:


> My guess is this: "*It looks like it took a big hit."
> 
> 
> *Edited: last replay from Surefire: *"A physically damaged lens is not a manufacturer defect. If you would like to send it in so our repair techs can attempt repairs, you can, but it is not a warranty issue."*



Its strange that they're giving us a few different answers. One was an all out "No repair even if you pay for it". Mine was no questions asked, they'll repair it without charging me. And the last one you mentioned was "we'll try to repair it and we will charge you".


----------



## the badger (Nov 1, 2017)

Lumen83 said:


> Its strange that they're giving us a few different answers. One was an all out "No repair even if you pay for it". Mine was no questions asked, they'll repair it without charging me. And the last one you mentioned was "we'll try to repair it and we will charge you".



Depends on who receives and replies to your email. There is clearly a lack of consistency with how they deal with warranty or repair work. A shakedown starting at the top is in order.


----------



## sledhead (Nov 1, 2017)

Received my light. Very happy. Beam/build quality is excellent and love the ring selector.


----------



## 270winchester (Nov 2, 2017)

sledhead said:


> Received my light. Very happy. Beam/build quality is excellent and love the ring selector.



same here. I like it. The beam is as intense as the 500 lumen E2DL I have but much broader and much less green. 

Surefire sure does know how to make/pick an optic.


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Nov 2, 2017)

Stainz said:


> That's right - I have no brain - certified recently by a neurologist after reviewing the MRI of my noggin, he said, "I see nothing!".
> 
> What is the difference between the UM2 and the UM2 Ultra?



And, as Dizzy Dean also said 'If ya done it, it ain't braggin'. 

I think there is only one UM2 although the branding on the SureFire product page does add some confusion.

Also, Arms Unlimited calls the UM2 the 'Baby Dominator' which doesn't help with the taxonomy in my opinion.



Stainz said:


> Speaking of *AU... WAR EAGLE!*
> 
> 
> Stainz (AU '75)



I have a nephew at Auburn and my grandpappy went to Alabama Polytechnic. :thumbsup:


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Nov 3, 2017)

Help! I'm suffering from decision constipation. On one hand, I've been wanting this light since May of this year. I check AU's website almost daily to see what kind of inventory they have left. I know I don't "need" this light. It might even make my P1R-B light jealous. I'm completely 50/50 on the fence as to whether or not I should just click onto the PLACE ORDER button. I think I'm also dealing with that FOMO thing; "fear of missing out." They made 800 units, and in a way, it's neat to own/collect something of a limited run. I know it's on the big side for a 2xCR123 light, but that's ok. I wouldn't try to EDC it. Probably just use it in or near the home etc...


----------



## Modernflame (Nov 3, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> Help! I'm suffering from decision constipation. On one hand, I've been wanting this light since May of this year. I check AU's website almost daily to see what kind of inventory they have left. I know I don't "need" this light. It might even make my P1R-B light jealous. I'm completely 50/50 on the fence as to whether or not I should just click onto the PLACE ORDER button. I think I'm also dealing with that FOMO thing; "fear of missing out." They made 800 units, and in a way, it's neat to own/collect something of a limited run. I
> 
> know it's on the big side for a 2xCR123 light, but that's ok. I wouldn't try to EDC it. Probably just use it in or near the home etc...



They won't be around forever. Worst case, when they sell out, some collector on the marketplace here will gladly take it off your hands if you don't want it...

As you've said, you don't have as many as you want, but it sounds like you want this.:devil:


----------



## Lumen83 (Nov 3, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> I'm completely 50/50 on the fence as to whether or not I should just click onto the PLACE ORDER button. I think I'm also dealing with that FOMO thing;



I'm totally with you on that. I'm hopefully not going to buy one. For me its too big and bulky. I love the size of the original U2. I've been buying them in the $50.00 range and having them modded with much better LEDs and bored to accept 18650. This is what is stopping me from buying the UM2. IMHO a Modded U2 is cheaper, better size, better brightness levels, etc. What surefire should have done is put a better LED in the original U2 instead of coming up with the UM2. But, the only thing is I feel I'm missing out on the 800 unit limited run of the UM2 which I'm sure is a fantastic light. Food for thought.


----------



## sledhead (Nov 3, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> Help! I'm suffering from decision constipation. On one hand, I've been wanting this light since May of this year. I check AU's website almost daily to see what kind of inventory they have left. I know I don't "need" this light. It might even make my P1R-B light jealous. I'm completely 50/50 on the fence as to whether or not I should just click onto the PLACE ORDER button. I think I'm also dealing with that FOMO thing; "fear of missing out." They made 800 units, and in a way, it's neat to own/collect something of a limited run. I know it's on the big side for a 2xCR123 light, but that's ok. I wouldn't try to EDC it. Probably just use it in or near the home etc...



Its a no brainer. No tax, free shipping and the current price = buy! The light is not to big in my opinion and the beam quality is very nice. There's a reason their is a selector ring on the Spy 007 and the UM2...simplicity and ease of use.


----------



## kssmith (Nov 3, 2017)

Only 250 left!! Better hurry; buy buy buy!!! Lol; I’ve got 2 of ‘em. Love it!


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## JohnnyBravo (Nov 4, 2017)

Ok, Ok, Ok. I just did it! Man, I hope I like this thing... 

(I managed to stay under my personal yearly budget of $2000 towards firearms and lights. $1714 ytd total, and $670 of that were lights.)


----------



## the badger (Nov 4, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> I managed to stay under my personal yearly budget of $2000 towards firearms and lights



Impressive.


----------



## Stainz (Nov 5, 2017)

Mine arrived yesterday in the mail... from AU... as I watched another AU beat Texas A&M. A great bargain of a light, even if is noticeably dimmer than my 800 Lumen LBT3 Invictus - 600/800 Lumens should look closer in brightness, even though the lens & reflector are larger in the three-cell monster, which definitely isn't pocketable. The UM2 Ultra barely is pocketable! A great use for the S-F box it came in - holding those S-F instructions scattered in my desk drawer - perfect size.


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Nov 8, 2017)

Just received mine! I have to agree, that this light's size is probably at the upper limits of what one would consider for EDC. 

I like the operation of the "ring" with noticeable detents/clicks unlike my other ringy lights. This is the most expensive light out of my 3 selector ring lights; so does this make it Lord of the Rings? I'm glad to see that the beam pattern has more spill than I thought. And I can't detect any hint of coolness, just a nice neutral color with mine. I just don't know why the texture and color of the tailcap doesn't match the body. The body feels almost the same as my P1R Peacekeeper - almost a satin or semi-gloss feel. But the tailcap looks and feels very matte/flat, chalky, and dry. The tailcaps and bodies of my other Surefire purchases: 9P, Fury, 6P, EB1, and Peacekeeper match nicely. I took the tailcap (click type, not tactical) off my P1R Peacekeeper and it looks and works just fine on this UM2. My family and I agree that the P1R tailcap looks like it came with the UM2, so I ordered another tail cap and will use it instead of the stock tailcap...


----------



## badbs101 (Nov 17, 2017)

On the fence about this light as I don't really need a new one. The price looks like it's improving (it was a non-starter for me at $300.00) and the idea of multiple levels is intriguing. 

Does anyone know if this light uses PWM to achieve the multiple light levels?


----------



## Beard Man (Nov 17, 2017)

badbs101 said:


> On the fence about this light as I don't really need a new one. The price looks like it's improving (it was a non-starter for me at $300.00) and the idea of multiple levels is intriguing.
> 
> Does anyone know if this light uses PWM to achieve the multiple light levels?



No PWM on any modes.


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## Modernflame (Nov 17, 2017)

badbs101 said:


> On the fence about this light as I don't really need a new one. The price looks like it's improving (it was a non-starter for me at $300.00) and the idea of multiple levels is intriguing.
> 
> Does anyone know if this light uses PWM to achieve the multiple light levels?



As far as I know, Surefire uses current control to achieve lower outputs, not PWM. I'm not making any value judgments, whether that's good or bad, but my P3X Fury definitely had the corresponding tint shift associated with current control.


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Nov 17, 2017)

I contacted SF. Got the official word that the driver can handle 8.4 volts. I'm thinking about using 2x16340 Ortronics in it once the original set of primaries run down... :twothumbs


----------



## badbs101 (Nov 28, 2017)

Genna said:


>



Dumb question. Does anyone know what the "C" and funny looking "E" on the bezel indicate?


----------



## Genna (Nov 28, 2017)

badbs101 said:


> Dumb question. Does anyone know what the "C" and funny looking "E" on the bezel indicate?



By affixing the CE marking to a product, a manufacturer declares that the product meets all the legal requirements for CE marking and can be sold throughout the EEA. This also applies to products made in other countries that are sold in the EEA (European Economic Area).


----------



## vadimax (Nov 28, 2017)

Genna said:


> By affixing the CE marking to a product, a manufacturer declares that the product meets all the legal requirements for CE marking and can be sold throughout the EEA. This also applies to products made in other countries that are sold in the EEA (European Economic Area).



Funny, they use European marking, but prefer not to have an official representative in EU.


----------



## Beard Man (Nov 28, 2017)

JohnnyBravo said:


> I contacted SF. Got the official word that the driver can handle 8.4 volts. I'm thinking about using 2x16340 Ortronics in it once the original set of primaries run down... :twothumbs



I just put two AW ICR 123 16340 Protected, 3.7V 750mAh, works great!


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Nov 28, 2017)

badbs101, it means Conformity European. I've always thought of it very similar to many U.S. electrical things that say "UL."


----------



## gottawearshades (Nov 28, 2017)

Hmmm.

What would the voltage be from three primaries under load? 





JohnnyBravo said:


> I contacted SF. Got the official word that the driver can handle 8.4 volts. I'm thinking about using 2x16340 Ortronics in it once the original set of primaries run down... :twothumbs


----------



## Lurveleven (Nov 28, 2017)

Maybe they have just reused the driver from UB3T Invictus which is a 3 cell light?


----------



## Beard Man (Nov 28, 2017)

Works with:
- prime CR123
- rechargeable K2 Energy LFP123A,3.2V,600mAh
- rechargeable AW ICR 123 16340 Protected, 3.7V, 750mAh

________________________________________________


----------



## Nimitz68 (Jan 12, 2018)

It looks like Arms Unlimited has only 82 of the UM2s left. Just an FYI for anyone still considering. Not affiliated with AU in any way, and thought it would be alright to provide a stock update since its the only place you can purchase this model.


----------



## recDNA (Jan 12, 2018)

Anybody ever measure the throw of this light?


----------



## 270winchester (Jan 12, 2018)

I got several of these since it's likely the last selector ring light ever from Surefire judging by the lackluster demand from the buying public. I'm not surprised given how many people have dozens of 70 dollar latest LED in a tube disposable lights but balk at the idea of paying over 100 for a unique lights like this.


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## JohnnyBravo (Jan 12, 2018)

See post 255. Looks like Jose measured it at 15k which is about 248 meters of throw. I believe the manual says 13k which is 228 meters. Either way, I say it's a mid-level thrower...



recDNA said:


> Anybody ever measure the throw of this light?


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Jan 12, 2018)

About 81 units left. Heck, I'm thinking of getting ONE more. One for play, one for display...


----------



## Modernflame (Jan 12, 2018)

JohnnyBravo said:


> About 81 units left. Heck, I'm thinking of getting ONE more. One for play, one for display...



Well, why the heck not?


----------



## recDNA (Jan 14, 2018)

Are there any beamshots available anywhere? I prefer white wall shots to see what the beam looks like.


----------



## jayhackett03 (Jan 14, 2018)

I received mine last week, I think I got #97. Beam is a bit wider than I expected. 600 lumens isn't really "bright" anymore, but I'm a sucker for selector rings and Surefire forward clickies, so I love the light. Tint is a bit on the cool side though. If it was TIR 1000 lumens I would love it even more.


----------



## recDNA (Jan 14, 2018)

Anybody got a cell phone camera, a new UM2 and a white wall?


----------



## nidhoggr (Jan 16, 2018)

recDNA said:


> Anybody got a cell phone camera, a new UM2 and a white wall?









White tile floor. No issues with the tint on mine


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## recDNA (Jan 16, 2018)

nidhoggr said:


> White tile floor. No issues with the tint on mine


It wasn't the tint I needed to see it was the shape of the beamshot. Looks very nice but not very bright

Thanks for taking the beamshot!


----------



## nidhoggr (Jan 16, 2018)

recDNA said:


> It wasn't the tint I needed to see it was the shape of the beamshot. Looks very nice but not very bright



That's on 5 lumens.


----------



## nidhoggr (Jan 16, 2018)

nidhoggr said:


> That's on 5 lumens.



I just tried to see if it looks any different on 600 but the camera auto adjusts


----------



## recDNA (Jan 16, 2018)

Thanks! Beautiful beam though. Looks nice for tir.


----------



## nidhoggr (Jan 16, 2018)

recDNA said:


> Thanks! Beautiful beam though. Looks nice for tir.



Yeah I like it quite a bit. Probably my last surefire for a long time. The selector ring is a great UI.


----------



## WarriorOfLight (Jan 17, 2018)

I posted this link long ago on page #5. This Review has a few wall shots in comparsion to a Fury:
http://www.messerforum.net/showthre...iew-Die-Lampe-die-es-nicht-gibt-oder-nun-doch

Maybe it is still interesting?


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Jan 18, 2018)

Have had my UM2 since Nov 8, 2017. It's my main nightstand light pre-set to 600 lumens. 2 nights ago, my wife and I heard our first loud bump in the night in this home that we've lived in for 18 months. Grabbed the UM2 and my Walther to investigate whilst using the Harries technique, and discovered our dishwasher has decided to sing new notes. Phew/Sigh!

Still thinking of getting a 2nd one, just 53 units left as of this writing...


----------



## Lumen83 (Jan 18, 2018)

JohnnyBravo said:


> Have had my UM2 since Nov 8, 2017. It's my main nightstand light pre-set to 600 lumens. 2 nights ago, my wife and I heard our first loud bump in the night in this home that we've lived in for 18 months. Grabbed the UM2 and my Walther to investigate whilst using the Harries technique, and discovered our dishwasher has decided to sing new notes. Phew/Sigh!
> 
> Still thinking of getting a 2nd one, just 53 units left as of this writing...




How was it flashing 600 lumens of light with night adapted vision? Was it blinding?


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Jan 18, 2018)

No. We have a good number of night lights plugged in throughout the house. And it's not as if I flashed it against the white wall 2 feet in front of me. ;-)

PS. I'm still on the original set of primaries. I do have Orbtronic 16340s to try out once the first set dies...


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 19, 2018)

Dang, I was finally ready to order my first new light since 2014, but get an AVS mismatch on all 3 of my credit cards  I don't know if it's because their store is set up wrong for non-US credit cards but my country was listed as one of the countries they accepted orders from.
Anyone want to help me order this? A good chance if you want to test it out.


----------



## Tachead (Jan 19, 2018)

Lurveleven said:


> Dang, I was finally ready to order my first new light since 2014, but get an AVS mismatch on all 3 of my credit cards  I don't know if it's because their store is set up wrong for non-US credit cards but my country was listed as one of the countries they accepted orders from.
> Anyone want to help me order this? A good chance if you want to test it out.


Just email them and see if they can help👍.


----------



## recDNA (Jan 19, 2018)

I wish they took PayPal. It would make purchases easier and more secure. I also wish this flashlight had an 800 lumen mode! LOL


----------



## JohnnyBravo (Jan 20, 2018)

Hmm. Just noticed something w/ the original tailcap that I'd been hanging onto. When it's tightened down, there is a gap between it and the pocket clip's retaining ring. But w/ the Peacekeeper clicky tailcap installed, the gap is gone. So not only does the Peacekeeper tailcap eliminate gap, its color, feel, and texture perfectly match the rest of the light's body etc.! In fact, I just threw away the original tailcap. Yuck, way too flat/matte, dry, and chalky...


----------



## ABTOMAT (Jan 26, 2018)

How does this compare in normal use to an original U2, other than being brighter? I've had a LuxV U2 since they first came out way back when.


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Jan 26, 2018)

ABTOMAT said:


> How does this compare in normal use to an original U2, other than being brighter? I've had a LuxV U2 since they first came out way back when.



The rotary switch is smoother without detents on the U2 in my opinion. As always, I wish the UM2 had a higher high and a lower low. As much as I like having the six power settings, I can see the future with the EDCL2-T which is much brighter on high and has a low that seems to be about step 2 on the UM2. The EDCL2-T is a smaller, brighter light with a lower MSRP that in most cases can do what the UM2 does with a similar TIR beam.

Now, if a UM3 could be made with the EDCL2-T form factor and a selector ring, I'd sure buy it. :thumbsup:


----------



## vadimax (Jan 26, 2018)

Lumen83 said:


> How was it flashing 600 lumens of light with night adapted vision? Was it blinding?



He doesn’t realize yet that he urgently needs a EDCL1/2-T


----------



## ABTOMAT (Jan 26, 2018)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> The rotary switch is smoother without detents on the U2 in my opinion. As always, I wish the UM2 had a higher high and a lower low. As much as I like having the six power settings, I can see the future with the EDCL2-T which is much brighter on high and has a low that seems to be about step 2 on the UM2. The EDCL2-T is a smaller, brighter light with a lower MSRP that in most cases can do what the UM2 does with a similar TIR beam.
> 
> Now, if a UM3 could be made with the EDCL2-T form factor and a selector ring, I'd sure buy it. :thumbsup:



I actually use the variable output on my U2. Something with just a low and a super high like the EDCL2-T wouldn't suit me.


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Jan 26, 2018)

ABTOMAT said:


> I actually use the variable output on my U2. Something with just a low and a super high like the EDCL2-T wouldn't suit me.



I'd recommend the UM2 at the current price without hesitation then. Get a couple, they are classics.


----------



## choombak (Jan 26, 2018)

Lurveleven said:


> Dang, I was finally ready to order my first new light since 2014, but get an AVS mismatch on all 3 of my credit cards  I don't know if it's because their store is set up wrong for non-US credit cards but my country was listed as one of the countries they accepted orders from.
> Anyone want to help me order this? A good chance if you want to test it out.



I'll be happy to order for you, please email me choombak at gmail dot com (the site PM is wonky, so best email).


----------



## TheSteve (Jan 27, 2018)

Received a UM2 yesterday, lucky # 00666. So far I am very happy with it. Now to order some rechargeable Li's to use in it.


----------



## Jose Marin (Jan 27, 2018)

TheSteve said:


> lucky # 00666.



Lol dude, just dont drive behind a tractor trailer with logs on the back haha


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## JohnnyBravo (Jan 27, 2018)

Now I'm even closer to getting a 2nd one. I have s/n 00601. I was hoping not to get 00666. If I ended up w/ 00556 or 00762, that'd be sweet!

PS. I use mine quite often. I'm still on the original set of SF CR123s. I've had mine since November 8th last year.


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## ABTOMAT (Jan 29, 2018)

I bit the bullet and ordered one. Gets here Thurs.


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## ABTOMAT (Feb 1, 2018)

Got it today. Serial 555. Just what I was expecting--a brighter U2. Interestingly, it's not going to replace my U2 for indoor work since most of the modes are considerably brighter. The U2 has six steps in the same brightness range the UM2 has maybe three. Better for close-up use. But the UM2 is definitely my new outdoor light so I don't have to carry a UB3T around.

Also, ArmsUnlimited has a good sense of humor. I put "please include a smiley face in the box" on the order instructions field.


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## 270winchester (Feb 1, 2018)

^ :laughing:


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## Nimitz68 (Feb 4, 2018)

For those still on the fence there are currently 25 remaining. I own several and thoroughly enjoy them. Not what I consider EDC but a great light at a tremendous price, fwiw.


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## Greenbean (Feb 10, 2018)

I just ordered one, [emoji106][emoji41]

I loved my original but it died, sent it in and Surefire couldn’t repair it so they replaced it with a Fury Intellibeam and I wasn’t happy. Tried it but just wasn’t the same. 

Sold the Fury and got a nice used U2 off eBay. Looking forward to this newer one. 

Great price too!

Appreciate the heads up!


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## JohnnyBravo (Feb 10, 2018)

I see they sit at 20 left as of this writing. This year is different for me, in that I've not spent a cent on any guns/flashlights so far. I allot myself $2k a year towards those 2 categories. I plan to buy a 2nd UM2 with one of my tax refunds that should hit my checkings any day now. 

I do like that saying, "One for play and one for display." 

PS. I use my UM2 several times a week. Still on the original set of batteries since November 8, 2017. I mix it up between full blast and either the 5 or 15 lumen output for middle of the night tip-toeing.


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## JohnnyBravo (Feb 13, 2018)

YAY! Just ordered my 2nd one just in the nick of time! Now they've sold out. Phew, that was a close shave...


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## Nimitz68 (Feb 14, 2018)

I'm very surprised it took this long to sell these 800 UM2s. They are tremendous lights. I'm glad I was able to purchase several.


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## Tribull (Feb 14, 2018)

Waited too long, they’re gone.


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## Greenbean (Feb 14, 2018)

Tribull said:


> Waited too long, they’re gone.



Sorry man, 

I was going to get a second one and they were gone too. 

There are some on eBay for 175.00 which is only 25 more than before. I have a feeling some more may hit eBay in the coming days. And/Or Amazon as well. 

The one I ordered should be here tomorrow. Can’t wait to compare it to my old U2.


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## 270winchester (Feb 14, 2018)

Nimitz68 said:


> I'm very surprised it took this long to sell these 800 UM2s. They are tremendous lights. I'm glad I was able to purchase several.



It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people shell out 75-100 bucks for the latest LED and a reflector in a tube and build up a pile of them over a few years, but 150 for a Surefire running an optic and with a selector ring? oh ,no, that's too expensive.:thinking:


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## badbs101 (Feb 15, 2018)

I almost bought one. To me, it _was _a little too expensive, and a little too big. The fact that the tailcap ano didn't match bugged me too. 

Still may pick one up someday tho...


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## JohnnyBravo (Feb 15, 2018)

I agree with the mismatch of coloring/texture between the tailcap and body. So like the first time I called SF, they sent me a Peacekeeper clicky tailcap which perfectly matches the rest of the UM2. Plus the Peacekeeper tailcap fills in that little gap better. I offered to send back the original tailcaps, but they said no. Great customer service experience x 2!


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## 270winchester (Feb 15, 2018)

badbs101 said:


> I almost bought one. To me, it _was _a little too expensive, and a little too big.


Oh good, then I am confident you can show me a cheaper alternative for a more compact American made 600+ lumen 2 cell light using an optic and changes brightness with a selector ring.

Thanks


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Feb 15, 2018)

Greenbean said:


> I loved my original but it died, sent it in and Surefire couldn’t repair it so they replaced it with a Fury Intellibeam and I wasn’t happy. Tried it but just wasn’t the same.



I've got a Kroma Mil-Spec from the SureFire selector ring family of lights. The selector ring stop has disengaged and the ring works but keeps rotating.

I've wanted to send it to Fountain Valley for a warranty repair but after hearing a couple of stories like yours, maybe I'll just leave it like it is or try to repair it myself. I'm afraid they will send back a newer light as a replacement for the classic Mil-Spec without asking.

SureFire displayed a UM-2 prototype at the 2015 SHOT Show three years ago, Marshall's (RIP ) video is posted early in this thread. The prototype had a shiny tailcap, a clip with several holes and no index marks next to the selector ring.

We've speculated that maybe this light was spec'ed for an anticipated government buy as an update to the venerable U2 long listed on the NSN price list.




badbs101 said:


> I almost bought one. To me, it was a little too expensive, and a little too big.​


​Three years ago 600 lumens for a two-cell SureFire was impressive, maybe by the time the lights finally went into production, the market had moved on. And smaller, brighter pocket lights probably appeal to a broader customer base as well.

The UM-2 feels like a classic PK SureFire and I thought that it might be the end of an era as I eagerly scarfed one up at the original price. But surprisingly, to me at least, the other new handheld SureFire's like the EDCL's and the E1B-MV have also gone back to that classic knurling with Lego possibilities.

Speaking of which, I never thought I would see another E1B in production after the EB1 came out. Will the UM-2 or even the U2 be resurrected in some form as well? Or are the days of the handheld SureFire selector ring lights over?

Also, is there a simple emitter swap (XM-L2 perhaps?) that will bump the UM-2 up to say 1000 lumens and get rid of the greenish tint?

Without frying the electronics that is. 

I hate for my extra UM2 to get dusty on the shelf. 
But I don't want to turn it into a paperweight either.


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## sledhead (Feb 15, 2018)

270winchester said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people shell out 75-100 bucks for the latest LED and a reflector in a tube and build up a pile of them over a few years, but 150 for a Surefire running an optic and with a selector ring? oh ,no, that's too expensive.:thinking:



Well put.:devil: I picked one up..fantastic light. I'll pick up a second one sometime. Sorry I missed the last stock ones.


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## Lumen83 (Feb 16, 2018)

270winchester said:


> Oh good, then I am confident you can show me a cheaper alternative for a more compact American made 600+ lumen 2 cell light using an optic and changes brightness with a selector ring.
> 
> Thanks



An original U2 with an upgraded LED is my preferred platform. Its a cheaper alternative for a more compact American made 600+ lumen 2 cell light using an optic and changes brightness with a selector ring.

UM2 is too big and ugly for me. I find the price to be fair enough, though. Good Value.


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Feb 16, 2018)

Just ordered a nearly new U2 for an incredible price. There was a second one is slightly worse condition for the same price. When I first fell in love with Surefire, I made a list of lights I wanted to own...
Years later and one light at a time, I keep buying them. Despite the time lapse from desire to ownership, I am very rarely disappointed. I recently sold an LX2, as it wasn’t used very much. Now that I miss it I will buy another...for the right price.......


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## 270winchester (Feb 16, 2018)

Lumen83 said:


> An original U2 with an upgraded LED is my preferred platform. Its a cheaper alternative for a more compact American made 600+ lumen 2 cell light using an optic and changes brightness with a selector ring.



What optic would you you running in that U2?

it's telling when the "alternative" is someone DIY at home, that tells us there is no viable alternative. Good luck to your warranty, 1/2 reason why people buy Surefires. 

See folks, this is why the UM2 was a flop and had to be all sold only through Arms Unlimited. Surefire went and created a light that checks many boxes, but the consumer says "nah, we'll just going to cut open an old U2 and throw a new LED in it". They might was well close shop now and save the trouble of developing new lights.


> UM2 is too big and ugly for me. I find the price to be fair enough, though. Good Value.


Too big and ugly? It's barely bigger than the U2, check the picture fom a few pages back. Look at that big and ugly U2 :wave:




asdalton said:


> Here are three lights side by side. The UM2 is only about 0.5" longer than the U2, but the selector ring is wider. It definitely feels like a bigger flashlight.


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## Lumen83 (Feb 17, 2018)

270winchester said:


> What optic would you you running in that U2?



XPH-50.2 is my favorite so far



270winchester said:


> it's telling when the "alternative" is someone DIY at home, that tells us there is no viable alternative. Good luck to your warranty, 1/2 reason why people buy Surefires.



I have a bunch of them. A couple are still stock for that reason. I would tend to think that the DIY crowd isn't afraid of voiding the warranty and can fix or swap out components as needed, considering that you can purchase 3 used U2s for the price of 1 UM2



270winchester said:


> See folks, this is why the UM2 was a flop and had to be all sold only through Arms Unlimited. Surefire went and created a light that checks many boxes, but the consumer says "nah, we'll just going to cut open an old U2 and throw a new LED in it". They might was well close shop now and save the trouble of developing new lights.



Do you really think that the overwhelming majority of consumers that passed on this light cut open U2s and put new LEDs in them? I find that hard to believe. The UM2 didn't sell well because it actually didn't check the boxes that you are referring to, for many consumers. Thats simply how the market works. There wasn't enough demand for the boxes that you are stating this light checked off for you. Others didn't have those same boxes. That is why it doesn't make sense for you to ask for someone to list an alternative. There isn't enough demand for this type of light. Why do we care if there is an alternative? There isn't an alternative because other companies chose not to make a product that wasn't in demand.

I think the reason this light wasn't an overwhelming success is because it had major identity crisis. For myself and many others, its too big for an EDC light. Larger lights that aren't carried, do have their purpose for me though. Keep one in the truck, keep one in the house to light up the back yard, etc. But, it was too underpowered for that. And, for me there is no need for a light like that to be a selector ring light. So, it doesn't seem to do either of those tasks well. The UM2 can't seem to find its niche. I don't know where that light would fit in for me. I suspect many others felt the same way.




270winchester said:


> Too big and ugly? It's barely bigger than the U2, check the picture fom a few pages back. Look at that big and ugly U2 :wave:



Yes, it is bigger by enough of a margin to make it too big for me to want to carry. The bezel is quite a bit bigger throughout the length of it, and the light is longer. The U2 is bigger than I would like to carry. So, I don't want anything bigger. And, I just don't like the looks of it. Not that looks are the most important trait, but the bezel just looks way too disproportionate on the UM2. These are my opinions.


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## 270winchester (Feb 17, 2018)

Lumen83 said:


> XPH-50.2 is my favorite so far



Well if you find it to have the better lumen output and beamprofile than the UM2, I'm sure Surefire would love to hear from you! Go Lumen83 Go!





> I have a bunch of them. A couple are still stock for that reason. I would tend to think that the DIY crowd isn't afraid of voiding the warranty and can fix or swap out components as needed, considering that you can purchase 3 used U2s for the price of 1 UM2
> 
> Do you really think that the overwhelming majority of consumers that passed on this light cut open U2s and put new LEDs in them? I find that hard to believe. The UM2 didn't sell well because it actually didn't check the boxes that you are referring to, for many consumers. Thats simply how the market works. There wasn't enough demand for the boxes that you are stating this light checked off for you. Others didn't have those same boxes. That is why it doesn't make sense for you to ask for someone to list an alternative. There isn't enough demand for this type of light. Why do we care if there is an alternative? There isn't an alternative because other companies chose not to make a product that wasn't in demand.
> 
> ...



If you pay attention on this forum, well in your case you've only been around for 5 months but if you read back threads, there has been outcry of "why no updated U2?" for years before the UM2 came out. When SF does come out with one..."oh it's not smaller than the U2" "it costs more than a used U2" "Oh my U2 modded is wayyyyy better, honest!".

Yeah, I rest my case.

When you've lost interest and drift away from CPF and next time someone asks "why no follow up to the UM2?" I will be sure to quote your post here.


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## Nimitz68 (Feb 17, 2018)

Everyone obviously has their own set of checkboxes when it comes to lights, or anything else. Having never owned a U2 the UM2 checked many of my personal checkboxes. It's elegant, well constructed, highly useable, and really beautiful I think. That is why I purchased several of them.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I can respect them without necessarily agreeing with them. I love this light. It is one of my favorites of all the Surefires I have purchased and owned over the last 20+ years.


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## Lumen83 (Feb 17, 2018)

270winchester said:


> Well if you find it to have the better lumen output and beamprofile than the UM2, I'm sure Surefire would love to hear from you! Go Lumen83 Go!


 Yes, I do. On all accounts. Why would surefire love to hear from me? Surefire knows there are a plethora of other manufacturers that make lights with better output, beam profile, color rendition, etc. But, that isn't their market. Its never been their market. Its been primarily LEO, Military, etc. which don't place empasis on lumen output, beam profile, etc., over reliability durability. It is well known that surefire lights place a higher emphasis on reliability and durability and are behind the times as far as lumen output. And, theres nothing wrong with that. Every manufacturer has a niche. So yes, my upgraded U2 does have better beam profile and lumen output and I'm not sure why you find that hard to believe.





270winchester said:


> If you pay attention on this forum, well in your case you've only been around for 5 months but if you read back threads, there has been outcry of "why no updated U2?" for years before the UM2 came out. When SF does come out with one..."oh it's not smaller than the U2" "it costs more than a used U2" "Oh my U2 modded is wayyyyy better, honest!".
> 
> Yeah, I rest my case.



All of the topics you just mentioned are valid arguments. It isn't smaller. Its not cheaper. It doesn't perform as well as a modded U2 for its size and cost. I'm not here to argue any further. But, you asked what is an alternative to a UM2. My answer is valid. A modded U2 is cheaper, brighter, and better for EDC. Those are the facts. Is a modded U2 the solution for everyone? No. But in my opinion its a decent enough choice, and a better performing choice in many ways, to answer your question about an alternative to the UM2.


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## 270winchester (Feb 17, 2018)

Lumen83 said:


> Yes, I do. On all accounts. Why would surefire love to hear from me? Surefire knows there are a plethora of other manufacturers that make lights with better output, beam profile, color rendition, etc. But, that isn't their market. Its never been their market. Its been primarily LEO, Military, etc. which don't place empasis on lumen output, beam profile, etc., over reliability durability. It is well known that surefire lights place a higher emphasis on reliability and durability and are behind the times as far as lumen output. And, theres nothing wrong with that. Every manufacturer has a niche. So yes, my upgraded U2 does have better beam profile and lumen output and I'm not sure why you find that hard to believe.


So you know their design emphasis and yet you complain their products are not compact enough and not cheaper than 5-10 year old used products from them. Okay.


Lumen83 said:


> I just received these and I could not be happier. You do great work and these lights are completely transformed. The tint and beam profiles on both are exactly what I want out of a light. And, each one is different. The XP-G2 has a tighter beam and is more of a thrower. The XP50.2 is more floody and really seems to light up a huge area very nicely. This light is such a good platform and now it has the beam, tint, and brightness it deservers. Thanks again. Great job.





> I would tend to think that the DIY crowd isn't afraid of voiding the warranty and can fix or swap out components as needed, considering that you can purchase 3 used U2s for the price of 1 UM2



is this the light you are talking about, the one Nitroz modded for you? Isn't that XPH50.2 still running the original U2 reflector and not an optic? I thought you were the DIYer?



> All of the topics you just mentioned are valid arguments. It isn't smaller. Its not cheaper. It doesn't perform as well as a modded U2 for its size and cost. I'm not here to argue any further. But, you asked what is an alternative to a UM2. My answer is valid. A modded U2 is cheaper, brighter, and better for EDC. Those are the facts. Is a modded U2 the solution for everyone? No. But in my opinion its a decent enough choice, and a better performing choice in many ways, to answer your question about an alternative to the UM2.



Like I said, if your arguments are valid, then Surefire might as well close shop and everyone can just try to find used U2s to mod. Why bother making anything new along the lines of the U2 when the new products are sure to be at least as big and definitely going to cost more than a used U2?

You are proving my point with every post you make, Internet has seldom been this easy. :laughing:


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## 270winchester (Feb 17, 2018)

270winchester said:


> What optic would you you running in that U2?





Lumen83 said:


> XPH-50.2 is my favorite so far



Huh.


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## archimedes (Feb 17, 2018)

The discussion is interesting, but how about we try to avoid making things personal, ok ?


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Feb 17, 2018)

Lumen83 said:


> I think the reason this light wasn't an overwhelming success is because it had major identity crisis. For myself and many others, its too big for an EDC light. Larger lights that aren't carried, do have their purpose for me though. Keep one in the truck, keep one in the house to light up the back yard, etc. But, it was too underpowered for that. And, for me there is no need for a light like that to be a selector ring light. So, it doesn't seem to do either of those tasks well. The UM2 can't seem to find its niche.




Someone at SureFire probably came to the same conclusions after the light had already gone into production and decided that it wasn't a viable product for a downsizing company.

Several past selector ring lights never made it out of the catalog. The UA2, UB2, and UB3 were never sold and the UB3T finally made it to market a couple of years later.

The original U2 was developed as a military project according to some of the catalog narrative. It apparently attracted DARPA funding for the development of the DEF series, a couple of which I believe later became the KROMA's:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nd-Def-3C-5K&p=5145777&viewfull=1#post5145777

The U2 was first listed in the 2004 SF catalog and was on the NSN price list as late as 2015. Like many of us here, I bought several. I gave a couple away and modded one.

Is the UM-2 the end of the line for the handheld SF selector ring light? Will an emitter update or a military buy resurrect it?

Looking at the SureFire 2018 catalog, the only selector ring light I see is the behemoth UDR Dominator which takes a dozen CR123A's.


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## Lumen83 (Feb 18, 2018)

270winchester said:


> So you know their design emphasis and yet you complain their products are not compact enough and not cheaper than 5-10 year old used products from them. Okay.



Yes. Why is that hard to believe? This simply means that I understand the market that they are designing their product for, but I do not fit into that target audience. I'm sure you can think of many products that do not suit your use because they are not intended for your typical use, but maybe there were products from said company that did suit your use better than the ones they currently produce, particularly if there is an upgrade available. 



270winchester said:


> is this the light you are talking about, the one Nitroz modded for you? Isn't that XPH50.2 still running the original U2 reflector and not an optic? I thought you were the DIYer?



Yes, that is one of the modded U2s that I have. And, that one is my favorite. Yes, its the original reflector and not an optic. That is also something that I prefer. So, again I feel that modded U2 is a better alternative for me that the UM2 for all of the reasons I've listed. You asked for an alternative, and I am submitting that as mine. Is that the best/most common route for the general consumer to go down? Probably not. But that is my alternative, as you asked. I am not the DIYer, and nor did I ever claim to be. And, nor do I feel like that changes whether or not the my preferred alternative satisfies your question, and I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion. 



270winchester said:


> Like I said, if your arguments are valid, then Surefire might as well close shop and everyone can just try to find used U2s to mod. Why bother making anything new along the lines of the U2 when the new products are sure to be at least as big and definitely going to cost more than a used U2?



Again, surefire made a light that was demonstrably out of touch with the demand of the general consumer. I can't help you or surefire there. But, I am one those uninterested consumers. My alternative was to have original U2s modded to outperform the UM2s in the categories that were important to me. I've discussed those in detail, and don't feel the need to add any more.



270winchester said:


> You are proving my point with every post you make, Internet has seldom been this easy. :laughing:



With that said, I don't see any value in continuing this discussion.


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## Lumen83 (Feb 18, 2018)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Is the UM-2 the end of the line for the handheld SF selector ring light? Will an emitter update or a military buy resurrect it?
> 
> Looking at the SureFire 2018 catalog, the only selector ring light I see is the behemoth UDR Dominator which takes a dozen CR123A's.



I really hope it is not the end of the line for selector ring surefires. I own many U2s and Kromas. I love selector ring lights for EDC lights. Because on an every day basis the tasks change and range from performing some up close work to scoping out that noise in the back yard. So, multiple brightness levels via a selector ring really make a lot of sense to me for an EDC light. And, that is the UI that I prefer to cycling through modes with a button of some sort. But, for me I don't need a selector ring for a non EDC light. Lights I use to really light up something at a distance, that I either keep in the truck or in a drawer in the kitchen, don't need a selector ring in my opinion. UI is less important to me for lights like that vs. EDC lights. 

So ultimately I passed on the UM2 because even though I love the selector ring UI, I found it too big for EDC. So, the fact that it had a selector ring suddenly became less appealing to me. I wouldn't value a selector ring in a non-EDC type of light. And, then the thought was maybe it would make a really neat truck or kitchen drawer type light. But, ultimately it wasn't as bright as a lot of other lights that are more geared toward that type of usage. So, really it just turned into a light that really couldn't find its niche. I think some other consumers probably felt that way too. I would love to see surefire make a selector ring light with a modern LED that is smaller than the original U2. But, I think that is wishful thinking. So, modded U2s are the best alternative for me at this point.


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## Daniel_sk (Feb 18, 2018)

I have similar thoughts after owning (and selling) the UM2. Here is my view:
- while the selector ring sounds appealing at first, it has its drawbacks. A lot of times I want to switch from a lower output to maximum to check something in further distance, this means I have to (usually) use two hands to dial to a higher level and then return back. Maybe if it had a separate turbo button? 
- There is not much difference between those 6 levels - I think 4 or 5 would be fine.
- it's too big for EDC, it's also 10% heavier, longer and bulkier than the original U2
- the lowest mode isn't very efficient, you get 5 lumens for 35 hours on 2x CR123A.
- the highest setting should be around 1000-1200 lumens
- it doesn't work on the highest setting with 16650 

But the price was great after all those discounts.


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## 270winchester (Feb 18, 2018)

Lumen83 said:


> Yes, that is one of the modded U2s that I have. And, that one is my favorite. Yes, its the original reflector and not an optic. That is also something that I prefer. So, again I feel that modded U2 is a better alternative for me that the UM2 for all of the reasons I've listed. You asked for an alternative, and I am submitting that as mine. Is that the best/most common route for the general consumer to go down? Probably not. But that is my alternative, as you asked. I am not the DIYer, and nor did I ever claim to be. And, nor do I feel like that changes whether or not the my preferred alternative satisfies your question, and I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion.



Can you point us to an independent review of a light similar to the one you had Nitroz modify for you? Since now you acknowledge that it does not use an optic, I find it interesting to see how the output and beam compares to the UM2. 

How much was the total price once you add the cost of the a good condition used U2 plus the cost of modification?





> Again, surefire made a light that was demonstrably out of touch with the demand of the general consumer. I can't help you or surefire there. But, I am one those uninterested consumers. My alternative was to have original U2s modded to outperform the UM2s in the categories that were important to me. I've discussed those in detail, and don't feel the need to add any more.
> 
> With that said, I don't see any value in continuing this discussion.



We only have your words to go on since most of us don't have a U2 laying around to be sent and modified by an expert. Must be nice to have a disposable U2 laying around like that, yet the UM2 is too expensive. Hm....

Your insistence that the UM2 is too big is strange considering the photo shows the size difference is not significant. But at the end of the day Surefire is unlikely to go further with smaller selector ring lights and we now can all see why: a new product will need to be the same price as a used one and they must deliver more lumens and better beam in a package smaller than the used one, says the critic who won't buy one anyway.


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## the0dore3524 (Feb 18, 2018)

I agree with Lumens83 and Daniel_sk after having owned and then sold my UM2. Simply too big to EDC and too little power. I have a U2 as well and that’s already pushing the limits on size. The pocket clip on the UM2 was absurd...I can’t see anyone actually using it unless they wear cargo pants on a daily basis. The much smaller head of the U2 - not so much the actual size - was what made it feasible to even carry with the pocket clip. I’m sure a modified U2 like Lumens83 described would meet my needs much better than the UM2. The UM2 was a niche light that couldn’t find its niche for me. Having said that, it was going for a great price while it lasted. If you have a use for it, then by all means go for it!


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## archimedes (Feb 18, 2018)

270winchester said:


> ....
> Your insistence that the UM2 is too big is strange considering the photo shows the size difference is not significant. But at the end of the day Surefire is unlikely to go further with smaller selector ring lights and we now can all see why: a new product will need to be the same price as a used one and they must deliver more lumens and better beam in a package smaller than the used one, says the critic who won't buy one anyway.



Well, most tech *is* deflationary ... delivering more and better for less and less, whether you look at computers, electronics, communication, LEDs, or the like.


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## bykfixer (Feb 18, 2018)

While we debate the merits of why SureFire does this or that the night vision optics have made military use of a flashlight about as practical as a bunch of shoulder to shoulder soldiers firing across a field at another bunch of shoulder to shoulder soldiers. 

And much of SureFire's previous ideas were based on pre-night vision optics tactical uses. 

Much of the debate here is like arguing whether the flint lock or musket was better in the days of the gatling gun. 

And with 1 cell lights easily making 300+ lumens it's also like debating whether 12"barreled revolvers are better than 9" barrels. 

The market for SureFire (and other tactical brand) flashlights has changed forever. And with all the other overseas makers flooding the market(s) (with some being pretty good) the SureFire market has shrunk considerably. That's not to say it has become tiny like it was back in 1995, but it definitely aint what it used to be. 

The world has gotten smaller, what with dozens of city-sized boats crossing the ocean at 27 knots on a given day, combined with heaven knows how many jumbo jets loaded with mass produced items. 

If there ever is another U2 derivative it will likely be a vampire type of light. Possibly with an option of an actual flashlight as one of the 'clicks'.


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## Lumen83 (Feb 18, 2018)

270winchester said:


> Can you point us to an independent review of a light similar to the one you had Nitroz modify for you?



http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?358753-Surefire-U2-Ultra-XP-G2-mod/page4

This is a thread from Nitroz on modding a U2 with a similar emitter. I believe one of my U2s now has this emitter as well. I am not sure if you will find beam shots, but it is a good place to start for more info. If you are truly interested, I will gladly take pictures and send them to you. But, I am terrible at reviews, nor do I have the desire to write one up.



270winchester said:


> Since now you acknowledge that it does not use an optic, I find it interesting to see how the output and beam compares to the UM2.



I never stated that is does use an optic. Like I said earlier, I mistook your question and assumed you were asking which emitter it uses, and that is how I responded. The beam of this particular U2 seems to have a larger hot spot and much more spill than the UM2, from what I can see. It also has a warmer tint than the UM2, which is another benefit of having an original U2 modded vs. purchasing the UM2. You can select the tint you prefer. Some of us find that important and do not like the UM2 or original U2 tint.



270winchester said:


> How much was the total price once you add the cost of the a good condition used U2 plus the cost of modification?



$90.00 to $110.00 for the ones I have done so far.



270winchester said:


> Must be nice to have a disposable U2 laying around like that, yet the UM2 is too expensive. Hm....



It is. I was able to buy a few of them for $45.00 apiece. Those I left un-modded and have them stashed in the ATV, Snowmobile, truck, etc. I don't feel bad having a $45.00 light sit mostly unused and outside all year long. Those original U2s at that price point are great for that type of application. So, the answer is yes the UM2 is too expensive regardless of the fact that I have "disposable" U2s laying around. The fact is, they serve a specific purpose at a specific price point that I am willing to spend on that purpose. A UM2 exceeds the price point for that purpose.



270winchester said:


> Your insistence that the UM2 is too big is strange considering the photo shows the size difference is not significant.



You say its not signifficant, and I say it is. We have different requirements and different taste. This isn't something that is debatable. But, I would like to submit that I am not alone in thinking it is too big. There are atleast two active posters in this thread who recently have agreed that it is too big. So, again I think that had a significant impact on the consumer's decision to pass on this light.



270winchester said:


> But at the end of the day Surefire is unlikely to go further with smaller selector ring lights and we now can all see why: a new product will need to be the same price as a used one and they must deliver more lumens and better beam in a package smaller than the used one, says the critic who won't buy one anyway.



Again, I did not buy one because it didn't fit my requirements for an EDC light, a truck light, a kitchen draw light, an ATV light, or for any other purpose. For all of those applications, I found better options. And, so did all of the consumers who chose not to buy this light. Do we really need to keep beating this dead horse?


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Feb 18, 2018)

Daniel_sk said:


> - while the selector ring sounds appealing at first, it has its drawbacks. A lot of times I want to switch from a lower output to maximum to check something in further distance, this means I have to (usually) use two hands to dial to a higher level and then return back. Maybe if it had a separate turbo button?



The UDR and the discontinued UB3T and UBR have this feature with on the MaxBlast™ tailcap. You press in the tailcap button and you always get full power with the selector ring set to a lower level of output. The UBR has some four-function feature in the tailcap as well, I don't think that idea went over too well.



Daniel_sk said:


> - There is not much difference between those 6 levels - I think 4 or 5 would be fine.



After carrying PK's single cell PK-PR1 for over a year, I think that three levels are practical for my use. I've got a couple of the recent SureFire handheld lights and they are nice, small and powerful. But the two settings are sometimes too bright and too dim. I could use a long lasting middle level for a lot of nighttime tasks. And still have that afterburner high setting to check out something in the shadows.



Daniel_sk said:


> - the lowest mode isn't very efficient, you get 5 lumens for 35 hours on 2x CR123A.



Take a look at the UDR Dominator. With a dozen CR123A's, you only get 14 lumens for 23 hours. Which points out that the overhead of the electronics on the selector ring lights has not allowed the increased efficacy of the new emitters to deliver a significant increase in battery life at the low end.

For comparison, the new EDCL2-T has double the advertised output of the UM2 at 1200 lumens and allegedly gives 5 lumens for 60 hours on two batteries. And has a street price about the same as the UM2 at the closeout price.

The difference between 35 hours and 60 hours at 5 lumens isn't a deal breaker for me unless I'm in one of Henry's caves without extra batteries. But the UM2 is just a little too large for me to carry.

So, my UM2 is on my desk (which is starting to look a lot like PK's old desk at SureFire ) and my EDCL2-T is in my pocket.

And, all this talk about modding U2's has got me thinking that I still have a couple new in the box in a drawer somewhere downstairs. There was a brief flood of brand new U2's years ago at fire sale prices on eBay when some major sporting goods dealer went out of business. I need to go looking...

As far as modding the UM2, I think I'll let someone who knows what they are doing try it first. Kinda like my colleague who was asked by the air traffic controller if he wanted to be the first plane to land on a newly cleaned and treated icy runway. He said, "no ma'am, we'd like to be the second plane to land." :thumbsup:


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## mikespike2 (Feb 24, 2018)

Can't believe I completely missed out on buying one of these given the limited production run. I see Arms Unlimited is now out of stock.

I have the last U2, and would have liked to add one of these to the collection. My only complaint with the U2 is the max lumens, and it looks like this would address that.

The UB3T is also discontinued? Wow, a lot has happened lately. Glad I got one before they were gone.

Edit: And the Peacekeeper is also gone? Yikes. I really like this light due to the 18650 compatibility, currently my most used light. Guess I should try and not lose it given it would be hard to replace.


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## Greenbean (Mar 4, 2018)

mikespike2 said:


> I have the last U2, and would have liked to add one of these to the collection. My only complaint with the U2 is the max lumens, and it looks like this would address that.
> 
> The UB3T is also discontinued? Wow, a lot has happened lately. Glad I got one before they were gone.
> 
> Edit: And the Peacekeeper is also gone? Yikes. I really like this light due to the 18650 compatibility, currently my most used light. Guess I should try and not lose it given it would be hard to replace.



If you must have them from time to time they hit eBay, lol...

Honestly I have a custom body from FM for my two stage Fury and its a great 18650 light vs a Peacemaker. However the Peacemaker has the "cooler" name!

I must say the older U2 has a smoother ring, the new one has stronger detents and is a tad heavier and larger in the front.


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## JohnnyBravo (Apr 27, 2018)

Back in February of this year, I placed an order for one more UM2. Their quantity on their website was in the single digits. When it showed up, the receipt said something like, "You got the last one!" My daughter's birthday is today, so she was thrilled/surprised to get her own. She'd been borrowing mine from time to time. Her s/n is: A00244 while mine is A00601. Yay, UM2s in stereo in this house!


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## Nimitz68 (May 25, 2018)

JohnnyBravo said:


> Back in February of this year, I placed an order for one more UM2. Their quantity on their website was in the single digits. When it showed up, the receipt said something like, "You got the last one!" My daughter's birthday is today, so she was thrilled/surprised to get her own. She'd been borrowing mine from time to time. Her s/n is: A00244 while mine is A00601. Yay, UM2s in stereo in this house!



Very nice! Congratulations on getting the last UM2.


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## the0dore3524 (May 25, 2018)

JohnnyBravo said:


> Back in February of this year, I placed an order for one more UM2. Their quantity on their website was in the single digits. When it showed up, the receipt said something like, "You got the last one!" My daughter's birthday is today, so she was thrilled/surprised to get her own. She'd been borrowing mine from time to time. Her s/n is: A00244 while mine is A00601. Yay, UM2s in stereo in this house!



That’s awesome! I wish my parents gave me expensive stuff like that when I was a kid lol. I got a Streamlight 4AA when I was like 8. When I was 9, I think I asked for a G2 Nitrolon. When I was about 12 or so, it was a P2X Fury. Never got to have any of the upper-tier SF lights until I started working.


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## Modernflame (May 26, 2018)

the0dore3524 said:


> ...When I was about 12 or so, it was a P2X Fury...



Mercy! I'm a fossil.


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## JohnnyBravo (May 26, 2018)

Well, she had turned 14 and is a good student; As and Bs with twice as many As.

And I'm surprised that my UM2 has been my main nightstand light since I got it last November. I mostly use mine on the lowest 2 settings and rarely on the 600; so I'm still on the original set of cells. Prior to the UM2, my nightstand light was a P1R dual mode Peacekeeper.


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## the0dore3524 (May 26, 2018)

JohnnyBravo said:


> Well, she had turned 14 and is a good student; As and Bs with twice as many As.
> 
> And I'm surprised that my UM2 has been my main nightstand light since I got it last November. I mostly use mine on the lowest 2 settings and rarely on the 600; so I'm still on the original set of cells. Prior to the UM2, my nightstand light was a P1R dual mode Peacekeeper.



Very nice. I currently have almost ten lights on my nightstand, it’s impossible to choose one! I’ve had both the P1R and UM2. I liked the build of the P1R more, but the UM2 is a lot more flexible. I recall having to cup my hand and click quickly with the P1R b/c it always came on mad blast. I sure do miss both those lights even though they saw very little use in my hands.


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## JohnnyBravo (Jun 22, 2018)

Well, I finally know what this light acts like when it's low on primary cell voltage. It strobes on low. I finally have to replace the original set of CR123s. Most of its use has been on the lowest 2 settings with maybe a few minutes total on high. So about 7 months of life w/ my current usage pattern.

I shall now rotate it off my nightstand into the curio; my P1R has been quite jealous...


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## JBA (Jul 19, 2018)

JohnnyBravo said:


> Back in February of this year, I placed an order for one more UM2. Their quantity on their website was in the single digits. When it showed up, the receipt said something like, "You got the last one!" My daughter's birthday is today, so she was thrilled/surprised to get her own. She'd been borrowing mine from time to time. Her s/n is: A00244 while mine is A00601. Yay, UM2s in stereo in this house!



Wow! That is really cool!!


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## PseudoFed (Sep 10, 2018)

Ha. Had to come back to this thread. Thought I owned 3, but while cleaning out a drawer jammed full of boxed lights and knives I found a 4th. I own #159, #202, #402, and #620. The last one has been my EDC for over a year when wearing carpenter shorts/jeans, or 5.11 style pants, or beefier cargo shorts/pants. In fact, pretty much all the time except when needing to wear dress slacks and pocket carry. Absolutely no issues with this light, which I use every day. Selector ring still good. It's been dropped a few times and knocked into dishwater. Got them at various times and prices from AU (but don't think I lucked into the $150). Got one hat too. Great light!


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## Mags (Sep 10, 2018)

PseudoFed said:


> Ha. Had to come back to this thread. Thought I owned 3, but while cleaning out a drawer jammed full of boxed lights and knives I found a 4th. I own #159, #202, #402, and #620. The last one has been my EDC for over a year when wearing carpenter shorts/jeans, or 5.11 style pants, or beefier cargo shorts/pants. In fact, pretty much all the time except when needing to wear dress slacks and pocket carry. Absolutely no issues with this light, which I use every day. Selector ring still good. It's been dropped a few times and knocked into dishwater. Got them at various times and prices from AU (but don't think I lucked into the $150). Got one hat too. Great light!




If youre in the mood to part with one, pm me 

Are these sold out everywhere now?


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## WarriorOfLight (Sep 11, 2018)

I am also lucky owner of 4 UM2's. Surefires currently last selector ring light. For this light I was waiting years when I first appeard in the catalog 2012 was announced several times than vanished and was 2016 available @AU.



Mags said:


> Are these sold out everywhere now?


Yes AU was the only shop selling this light. They bought all ~800 UM2 lights and sold them directly and over eBay in assiciation with a dealer from Florida. 

I bought all my 4 UM2s from this seller in FLorida, and the Flashlight itself was sent by AU. The first one was $250, the last two were $175. At eBay the Price never reached $150 and I had some reorts AU does not ship international, even if there were some getting their Lights by an AU order.


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## WDR65 (Sep 11, 2018)

I wish I had bought at least one more. I'm going to use mine but I carefully consider where I take it as I know its not really replaceable. It's a great light and sad that it appears that line of development is done for Surefire.


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## 270winchester (Sep 11, 2018)

WDR65 said:


> I wish I had bought at least one more. I'm going to use mine but I carefully consider where I take it as I know its not really replaceable. It's a great light and sad that it appears that line of development is done for Surefire.



l agree, I wish I got more than 2. The beam is such a nice thick and well focused beam, i'm sure with enough money and time one can retrfit a U2 to perform similarly but the massive optic used in this light is worth the small increase in size.

It reminds me of the A-10 Thunderbolt II that was built around its 30mm gatlin gun, it's a light that was built around the optic, LED and selector ring combo rather than stuff a dimensionally compromised optic that fits a preexisting body, and the whole package just works.


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## kssmith (Sep 11, 2018)

Love this light still; beam is amazing. I have two of em. I bought 3, and gave one to a friend.


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## const451 (Sep 29, 2018)

Modernflame said:


> Mercy! I'm a fossil.



lol... like it was yesterday I was browsing 6P, 9P, G2, G2Z, C2, C3, M2, M3, M3T, M4 Devastator, M6 Guardian... then I got one of the first P60L... and it's been all downhill for me with the flashlights... haha


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## kkina (Dec 9, 2019)

Well wow! I can't believe this thread went so long. FYI I did buy a UM2, and it's been going strong for a couple years. No problems whatsoever.


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## SFtaco (Apr 18, 2020)

Anyone willing to sell a UM2 that they have if it’s new?


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## archimedes (Apr 18, 2020)

SFtaco said:


> Anyone willing to sell a UM2 that they have if it’s new?



This thread is for discussion, not buying or selling.

Please feel free to post your WTB thread in the appropriate location.


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## SFtaco (Apr 18, 2020)

archimedes said:


> This thread is for discussion, not buying or selling.
> 
> Please feel free to post your WTB thread in the appropriate location.



Ok thank you, sorry for that


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## archimedes (Apr 18, 2020)

SFtaco said:


> Ok thank you, sorry for that


Sure, and good luck with your search


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## WarriorOfLight (Apr 18, 2020)

SFtaco said:


> Anyone willing to sell a UM2 that they have if it’s new?


That was for me the last really cool Surefire light until now. I would never ever sell one of my UM2s.

But I understand you would like to snag one. The good point is ther are ~800 Lights out. Therefor it should be possible finding one...


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## JohnnyBravo (Apr 19, 2020)

For the last couple of weeks, my UM2 has been my nightstand light. I just really dig that no-look selector ring!


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## JohnnyBravo (Jan 29, 2022)

All good things... 

I've owned mine since Nov 2017. Just sold and mailed it out to another CPF member yesterday. At least my daughter has one, so I can use it if I get the hankering.


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