# 7D Maglite in a smaller package



## Minimoog (Jul 24, 2017)

One of the nicer (in my opinion) facets of using higher voltage lights is the fatter, more solid hotspot - which unless you are spotting at a distance is more useful in lighting things up. This is caused by the longer length of wire actually burning.

So as an experiment I got my Mag 3D (which was practically unused) and kitted it out with the following:

3x3 AA holders
8 AA Eneloop Pro cells (plus one dummy AA)
7D Maglite bulb (8.63V, 0.5A)
Usual Mag resistance fixes (braid in spring and switch)
Glass lens

Well I am really impressed at the light from this light - perfect for walk around and general use and will run for over 4 hours on a charge. Its not as bright as my ROP, but its bright enough to be in my 'bright torch' class and to know that I am getting the same light as from a whopping 7D Mag in a much smaller package is cool I think.
The 6D bulb is brighter, but the hotspot is smaller and the current draw nearly 0.9 Amps - so less runtime.

I was inspired by an old hardware shop in a nearby town selling Mag bulbs at £1.50 for a pack of 2 and the faded old 7D packaging gave me this idea. Glad I did it now!

Sad to say that they had sold off all the actual Maglites early this year at £20 each - including the 7D model. Boo!


----------



## bykfixer (Jul 28, 2017)

Here's an easy one I did. Not a Mag, not 7D bright but it turned a 2C into a potent little thrower...






An early 1970's mini cop light.
I took a pair of LifePo4 18500's, a segment of 3/4" (19mm) pvc gas service pipe, and a 4D krypton versus the same sized light in stock form.





Left is the boosted beam.





Mimics at least a 5D light

The light was made by a company that used the same parts for lights as big as 7 cells so I aint concerned about excess heat. I won't use the light for extended periods anyway.


----------



## swampgator (Jul 29, 2017)

One of my favorite (pre ROP) lights was a 2C Mag running 2 18500s with a 7.2 volt KPR118 bulb.

Small enough to fit in a back pocket but more output than a Surefire 6P.


----------



## LiftdT4R (Jul 29, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Here's an easy one I did. Not a Mag, not 7D bright but it turned a 2C into a potent little thrower...
> 
> 
> An early 1970's mini cop light.
> ...



Sorry, not to get too off topic but what kind of bezel is on that 2C in the background? Looks like a Streamlight bezel on a Kel-Lite.


----------



## Minimoog (Jul 29, 2017)

Hey, thanks for the input - I love reading other people takes on this theme. Looks like we have all tried something similar.


----------



## bykfixer (Jul 30, 2017)

LiftdT4R said:


> Sorry, not to get too off topic but what kind of bezel is on that 2C in the background? Looks like a Streamlight bezel on a Kel-Lite.







This was the way it arrived from Kel-Lite.com.

I've since added a 43.41mm ultraclear glass lens and popped in some 18500's (w/gap filler sleeve) with a 4D krypton.






Edit:




Make that a xenon...
More ringy beam but wow, wow, wow is it bright now. 
The Brinkmann 4 cell krypton puts out a much nicer beam so the Mag Num Star may not stay...


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 5, 2017)

Here's my lineup so far:




Note: each is 100% reversable

Vertical L to R:
1) Franco 2C from about 1921 using 2 LifePo4 18500's, a 3/4" ID pvc schedule 80 sleeve and an e10 model 162 bulb. A bunch of extra floody lumens from that fisheye lens.

2) 1940's Olin safety light using 2x 18500 LifePo4's, a 3/4" schedule 80 pvc sleeve and a K13 6 volt krypton bulb. A nice, general purpose beam with a spot that throws 75 yards easily. 

3) Kel-Lite CPL-2 from late 1960's using 2x 18500 LifePo4 cells, 3/4" schedule 80 pvc sleeve and a Maglite LMSA401 4 cell xenon bulb. Lots of throwey lumens.

4) Maglite 2C classic from the late 1990's using 2x 18500 LifePo4 cells, 3/4" pvc schedule 80 cells and a 4 cell Maglite bi-pin bulb upgrade kit and a flashlight lens dot com akrylite lens whose slight difussion really cleans up the beam without affecting output. Throws like a Maglite should but much brighter than the 2 cell did. 

Horizontal Top to Bottom:
5) 2 cell Maglite ML25 IT using 2x 18500 cells, 3/4" pvc schedule 80 sleeve and a Maglite 4 cell bipin. Rivals its LT conterpart with a nice toasty incan beam instead. Using the akrylite lens in this one causes it to look LED beam clean as well. 

6) 3 cell Maglite ML25 IT using 2x 1amp low output 18650's, a 3/4" pvc schedule 80 sleeve, a Streamlight TL3 bulb and akrylite lens. I chose the TL3 bulb over Mag 5 and 6 cell bi-pins because it has a better looking beam. The 5 cell was brighter, but filament shadows were bad even with the akrylite lens. The TL3 bulb is brighter than the 6 cell bulb. Note, with extended use this one melts the reflector slightly around the bulb, but an LT reflector (with a larger hole) will work. Or you can drill out the hole a couple of millimeters, but I chose to keep it stock.

7) A solid brass number using 2x 18500 LifePo4 cells, a 3/4" pvc schedule 80 sleeve and KPR118 bulb whose tip and globe fit through the oem metal reflector opening. Other PR bulb globes were too large. A much brighter than 2c beam that is pretty floody due to a shallow reflector, but a fun flashlight anyway. Easily lights 100 feet well.

8) (note, not completed yet) 1950's HIPCO made house brand light probably sold in ma-n-pa hardware stores that'll use 2x 18500 LifePo4 cells, a 3/4" pvc schedule 80 sleeve, a Maglite LMSA401 xenon bulb and a vintage Rayovac 1-1/8" glass lens from the 1960's. I just ran out of batteries so it's built, but waiting on fuel. 

I did this to some really old lights from the 1910's but the metal parts got very warm, very quickly so those ideas were abandoned. Therefore no pix of those will happen. 

Pretty much any C size flashlight that was built with the same parts used in multi-cell lights will put up with the heat of this mod and provide a 5-6 cell brightness in a jacket pocket friendly flashlight. 

I recently acquired a 3 C Kel-Lite and when it arrives I'll do a pair of low output 18650's and try out Mags LMSA 501 or 601 xenon bulbs in it. I'm thinking it'll be about 200 lumens with the 5 cell bulb.


----------



## LiftdT4R (Nov 7, 2017)

Very nice!! What lithium ion batteries do you think are best for a direct drop in of a C cell or D cell? As I remember there aren't many D cell direct drop ins. I like these setups and I'm just looking for a nice easy way to run a 6 or 7 cell bulb in a 2C or 2D like you have.


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 7, 2017)

I see some D cell called Saft, but they burst at 4a and sustain 1.8. I use Nuon cells from Batteries plus because they are low output type so they don't over drive a bulb more than an alkaline would (or at least not much more) 

Or you can use 2x123 RCR with a dummy cell to get about 7 volts to a 6 cell bulb in a 2 cell light. 

6 cell bright in a 2 cell flashlight is like starting from an intersection at the bottom of a hill in a wet snow. The key is to feather the throttle. 

Now if you want whopping output in the hundreds of lumens, minimoog is the expert there. He builds in stuff for soft start, regulated output and has old lights that put out 4 digit lumen counts. I'm just trying to get 6D bright in a 2-3 cell flashlight.

At some point I'm going to get schedule 40 x 3/4" pvc and wrap it with electrical tape thick enough to fill most of the void between the D wall and PVC to make a semi permanent gap filler that allows 18mm cells to easily slide in and out. Early D cell battery packs were 2 double A's stacked, wrapped in tape then a cardboard sleeve to display the makers logo. 
Member Irongate did that to some vintage C lights that were too narrow for even those carbon batteries made by Eveready and Rayovac these days that are slightly narrower than alkalines.

I'm not familaler with any "gentle" 26mm cell.


----------



## LiftdT4R (Nov 7, 2017)

Thanks!! I was just looking for either a C or D cell LiIon with the same dimensions as an alkaline cell and was wondering what yall are running. I've always heard there isn't a great D cell LiIon out but I do have a few old C cell Mags and a ton of bulbs I've collected over the years so I thought this would be a neat project.


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 7, 2017)

Those "Saft" D cells are 3.7 Lithium Ion, 13,000 mAh but I would fear they'd be bulb killers.

A company called PK Cell (no not that PK, I asked him) make some 26500, which are pretty close to C size. 9000 mAh 3.6 volt litthium ions. I've used their N size lithium cells and have no qualms with 'em. Kinda pricey at about $9 each for disposable cells. They also have D cell.
Nice gentle output though at 200mAh sustained and 400 max.


----------



## Minimoog (Nov 11, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Those "Saft" D cells are 3.7 Lithium Ion, 13,000 mAh but I would fear they'd be bulb killers.
> 
> A company called PK Cell (no not that PK, I asked him) make some 26500, which are pretty close to C size. 9000 mAh 3.6 volt litthium ions. I've used their N size lithium cells and have no qualms with 'em. Kinda pricey at about $9 each for disposable cells. They also have D cell.
> Nice gentle output though at 200mAh sustained and 400 max.



Concerning those SAFT batteries I was given a few to evaluate. While they have high mAh ratings the maximum current is only around 100mA, beyond which the voltage sags to zero (without much cell heating). They are used mainly in remote locations for storing data and back-up in event of main power failure. No good for lights at all - and I did try!

I'm finding either Eneloops are best for unregulated lights or rechargeable lithium for regulated (or direct for high power lights).


----------



## LiftdT4R (Jan 17, 2018)

Hey guys, I'm still trying to put together a D cell with 18mm Li-Ion cells, either 18500s or 18650s and I am having no luck finding pipe that works. I got 3/4" plastic gas pipe but it does not fit into the ID of the c Cell Mag and the inside has a large enough void that the batteries would rattle around quite a bit.

What are ya'll using for a spacer on a C cell Mag running 18mm cells?

Thanks!!

EDIT: For those who may have the same question someday. 3/4" HDPE gas pipe has a larger OD than 3/4" PVC pipe. You need to use the black PVC pipe and not the yellow HDPE pipe.


----------



## Noyb72 (Feb 3, 2018)

Hello, new here and glad I found this thread as it's what I'm looking for. The only thing I don't see addressed is the new bi pin lights. I am not looking for something that is too bright for working close to my hands, just brighter than a 2D bi pin that is rechargeable. I think if I run 2x18650s with a 6D bit pin bulb all would be good, but I'd appreciate some feedback before I get started. 
Thanks 
Ron


----------



## bykfixer (Feb 3, 2018)

A 3C with a pair of 18650's will work with the bulb you mentioned.

ZBattery sells ML25's in the incan version or you can just swap out a bulb in a regular 3 C for the Mag bi-pin kit.


----------



## fivemega (Feb 3, 2018)

*It's also possible to use 2x18650 in 2C M*glite with deep tail cap and 6D bulb.*


----------



## vicv (Feb 3, 2018)

You're right FM but I much prefer the 5d bulb. Perfect bulb for 2 rechargable lithium cells. Runtime is great as is output and very white yet robust. I'm on my 5th charge cycle with mine


----------



## fivemega (Feb 3, 2018)

vicv said:


> You're right FM but I much prefer the 5d bulb. Perfect bulb for 2 rechargable lithium cells. Runtime is great as is output and very white yet robust.





Noyb72 said:


> I am not looking for something that is too bright for working close to my hands, just brighter than a 2D bi pin that is rechargeable. I run 2x18650s with a 6D bit pin bulb



*That's right. 5D bulb will be brighter and whiter (with shorter bulb life) than 6D bulb when using pair of 18650 in series.
I was responding to Mr Noyb72 question for smaller size M*glite but of course there are many other brighter bulb option for 2x18650*


----------



## Noyb72 (Feb 11, 2018)

Thank you all for your responses. If 2x18650 won't work with a 2D, can someone give me a recommendation? I have 2 2D bipin Maglights and want to build one along these lines and turn the other into a dirt rifle. 
Thanks again. 
Ron


----------



## bykfixer (Feb 12, 2018)

How about a pair of D to AA adapters and a pair of 3.7 volt double A's in those. I'm talking about the eneloop style adapter, not those side by side numbers.


----------



## xxo (Feb 12, 2018)

You could get a couple 3AA to D SERIES adapters and use a 5 or 6 cell bulb in a 2D light running on AA Eneloops.


----------



## Noyb72 (Feb 12, 2018)

So,
That would be a total of 6 Eneloops at 5.4Vs? That sounds like it would work. I am completely new to these Eneloops, what kind of charer do they require and are thy the same sie as standard AA cells?
Thanks
Ron


----------



## bykfixer (Feb 12, 2018)

xxo said:


> You could get a couple 3AA to D SERIES adapters and use a 5 or 6 cell bulb in a 2D light running on AA Eneloops.



Yup, and get a decent run time as well.


----------



## vicv (Feb 18, 2018)

Noyb72 said:


> So,
> That would be a total of 6 Eneloops at 5.4Vs? That sounds like it would work. I am completely new to these Eneloops, what kind of charer do they require and are thy the same sie as standard AA cells?
> Thanks
> Ron



Yes they are the same size as standard AA cells and any NiMH charger will work. I use one of my miboxer chargers that also charge lithium ion cells. Or if you're looking at NiMH only I'd look at maha chargers


----------



## vicv (Feb 18, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> How about a pair of D to AA adapters and a pair of 3.7 volt double A's in those. I'm talking about the eneloop style adapter, not those side by side numbers.



This is a good idea but I prefer the side by side parallel adaptors. Double the runtime and much easier on the cells. I've used these before to great effect


----------



## xxo (Feb 18, 2018)

vicv said:


> Yes they are the same size as standard AA cells and any NiMH charger will work. I use one of my miboxer chargers that also charge lithium ion cells. Or if you're looking at NiMH only I'd look at maha chargers



Some other charger options: Eneloop's BQ-CC 17 smart charger is a good, basic, low cost charger as is the charger that comes with the Eneloop sets they sell at cosco (the set includes AAA and AA Eneloops, a charger and some AA to C and D adapters).


----------



## LiftdT4R (Feb 23, 2018)

How about a 7C in a smaller package? 







It has taken me literally forever to get this light together but I'm sooooo glad I did. About a year ago Mr. Fixer gifted me a Tad Customs bi-pin setup and I knew I would soon have a project on my hands. I could never have guessed it would take me a year to put together. I've restored a truck faster than I've put this light together. Next I bought an HDPE gas pipe and the 18650 cell I had didn't fit so I finally figured out I needed a PVC gas pipe. Then, I bought a pair of 18650 flat tops and realized they didn't work in series so I swapped them out for the 18650 button tops my dad was running in is Surefire work light. Along the way I picked up a Fivemega 18650 "C" cell stainless tail cap and scalloped bezel. I joined them with a "Letter Serial" 2 C Maglite I scored on fleabay a while back and I thought I had an awesome light. Only then did I notice the reflector and lens start to get cloudy after only a couple minutes of run time from all the heat. So, I ordered up a KAI Domain SMO reflector and glass lens. I waited the usual 4 week KAI Domain delivery time and now I'm in business!!!






What an awesome setup!! This thing throws like nobody's business. The beam shots here do not do it justice. I'm able to light up trees and houses at least 100 yards down my block. Do I have a real use for this light? No. But man is it fun to play around with. Not much spill and it's not intensely bright. It's just an awesome thrower. I had to do one more pic while I was taking them and it shows how far the tech has come in 20 or so years. Way brighter than my 7C and about a third of the size.






These lights were popular here years ago. While I was putting it together I kept running across threads from 2008 or so, it really was a journey back in time and I can highly recommend to new CPF users like myself that they should put one together also. It certainly gives a greater appreciation to the evolution of LED and lithium ion lights. I've been collecting Maglites for almost 8 years now but being new to CPF I did not realize all the amazing mods that could be done to these lights.


----------



## vicv (Feb 24, 2018)

That's nice. What bulb? The 7218?


----------



## LiftdT4R (Feb 24, 2018)

vicv said:


> That's nice. What bulb? The 7218?



That's a good question. I'm not too sure, the bulb I'm using is labelled 6 Volts and 20 Watts. I have another that came with it that's 6 Volts and 25 Watts.


----------



## vicv (Feb 24, 2018)

Oh you're using the g4 adaptor? Probably the Philips 7388 then. Excellent bulb one of my favourites


----------



## LiftdT4R (Feb 24, 2018)

Yes, I'm digging it so far. DO you have any other bulbs you'd recommend to try out?


----------



## bykfixer (Feb 24, 2018)

LiftdT4R said:


> That's a good question. I'm not too sure, the bulb I'm using is labelled 6 Volts and 20 Watts. I have another that came with it that's 6 Volts and 25 Watts.



Glad you elaborated becuse frankly I couldn't remember if I'd opt'd for the 10w or 20w. I do remember thinking a glass lens and a metal reflector were on the list of future items. 
I also remember thinking I wanted to keep the switch stock, but iirc the kit comes with some sort of heat friendly upgrade and how to instructions... 

The Tads kit is the real deal at a great price.


----------



## vicv (Feb 24, 2018)

I'm in Canada so bulb availability is tricky. One of my favourites is the 5 cell mag bulb on 2 X 18650s. All the light I need (between 150 and 200 lumens) and 2+ hours runtime


----------



## bykfixer (Feb 24, 2018)

Good pick.
Do you prefer krypton over xenon? Bi-pin xenon over PR xenon in your Mag bulbs?

I have found in Maglites a krypton does a nicer beam than a bi-pin xenon. But it's a toss up between PR xenon or krypton with the brightness of a xenon bias-ing my choice that way.


----------



## LiftdT4R (Feb 24, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> Glad you elaborated becuse frankly I couldn't remember if I'd opt'd for the 10w or 20w. I do remember thinking a glass lens and a metal reflector were on the list of future items.
> I also remember thinking I wanted to keep the switch stock, but iirc the kit comes with some sort of heat friendly upgrade and how to instructions...
> 
> The Tads kit is the real deal at a great price.



It does! The spring is the spring between the switch terminal and bulb that allows the light to focus. The stock spring is a cheap white metal and the Tad's spring is stainless. The stock spring loses all of it's strength when it heat sup to much and fails. The stainless spring is more robust. I changed them out when doing the drop in.

Thanks again Mr. Fixer!! I appreciate it although my neighbors might not, lol.


----------



## fivemega (Feb 24, 2018)

vicv said:


> That's nice. What bulb? The 7218?





LiftdT4R said:


> That's a good question. I'm not too sure, the bulb I'm using is labelled 6 Volts and 20 Watts.


*6 Volts, 20 Watts bulb takes over 3.3 Amps which is almost double of 1.8 Amp.
This is also maximum of current spike for pictured protected cells.
However if anyone want to get brighter incand, then Philips 5761 with pair of IMR 18650 is a choice.
For less brightness, there are many other options.*


----------



## vicv (Feb 25, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> Good pick.
> Do you prefer krypton over xenon? Bi-pin xenon over PR xenon in your Mag bulbs?
> 
> I have found in Maglites a krypton does a nicer beam than a bi-pin xenon. But it's a toss up between PR xenon or krypton with the brightness of a xenon bias-ing my choice that way.



I prefer the xenon pr bulb. That being said I haven't tried the bi pin yet. But I'm not sure if it'll handle the overdrive or not


----------



## LiftdT4R (Feb 25, 2018)

vicv said:


> I prefer the xenon pr bulb. That being said I haven't tried the bi pin yet. But I'm not sure if it'll handle the overdrive or not



I don't know for a fact that it would but I'm guessing so. They are all around a more hearty bulb. Very durable. I've noticed the life on the bi-pin bulbs is greater than the PR bulbs.


----------



## bykfixer (Feb 25, 2018)

My 2nd "smaller 7D" was a 3 cell ML25 IT using 18650's. I tried a 5 and 6 cell bi-pin and a TL3 bulb. The 5 cell held up. I ended up going with the TL3 bulb for the cleaner beam.


----------



## LiftdT4R (Feb 25, 2018)

fivemega said:


> *6 Volts, 20 Watts bulb takes over 3.3 Amps which is almost double of 1.8 Amp.
> This is also maximum of current spike for pictured protected cells.
> However if anyone want to get brighter incand, then Philips 5761 with pair of IMR 18650 is a choice.
> For less brightness, there are many other options.*



Awesome, good to know. Breaking out the old P = I * E.

I wish more bulbs had the voltage and wattage listed so I could find out how many amps they draw. It would make picking the right battery configuration a whole lot easier.


----------



## vicv (Feb 25, 2018)

That's strange I wasn't aware of any that didn't


----------



## LiftdT4R (Feb 25, 2018)

vicv said:


> That's strange I wasn't aware of any that didn't



I haven't been able to find wattage ratings on the PR base bulbs. I have seen them on all the bi-pin bulbs though.


----------



## fivemega (Feb 25, 2018)

LiftdT4R said:


> I wish more bulbs had the voltage and wattage listed so I could find out how many amps they draw.



*Here are only some 6V ~ 7.2V bulbs to power up with pair of 26650
Osram 64275 - 35W
Philips 5761 - 6V, 30W (or other brand)
ROP 3854H - 6V, 24W
ROP 3853H - 7.2V, 24W
WA1111 - 6V, 20W (or other brand)
WA1274 - 7.2V, 20W
Generic 6V, 15W
Carley 1499 7.2V, 14W
ROP- 3854L - 6V, 11W
ROP- 3853L -7.2V, 11W
Osram 64265 - 6V, 10W (or other brand)
6V, 5W or lower (many different brands) *


----------



## fivemega (Feb 25, 2018)

LiftdT4R said:


> I haven't been able to find wattage ratings on the PR base bulbs. I have seen them on all the bi-pin bulbs though.


*Most PR based bulbs which are designed to run off of "C" or "D" alkaline cells, have current draw of 0.7~ 0.9Amp.
This is maximum current can delivered by mentioned cells with acceptable capacity and runtime. So many high powered flashlight are designed to work with rechargeable cells. (M*gChager NiCad) (Surefire 10X NiCad) and ... *


----------



## bykfixer (Feb 25, 2018)

fivemega said:


> *Here are only some 6V ~ 7.2V bulbs to power up with pair of 26650
> Osram 64275 - 35W
> Philips 5761 - 6V, 30W (or other brand)
> ROP 3854H - 6V, 24W
> ...



How many of these are still readily available. 

Gettin' me all whipped into a frenzy here only to find out "good luck finding that one" lol


----------



## fivemega (Feb 26, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> How many of these are still readily available.


*With little search, you can find many bulbs from above list plus those which are not listed.
Osram 64275
Osram 64265
Philips 5761
ROP 3854H + 3854L
ROP 3853H + 3853L
WA 1274
Carley 1499
Osram 64223
JC 6V, 5W
*


----------



## Greenbean (Sep 21, 2018)

LiftdT4R said:


> How about a 7C in a smaller package?



Thank You for the inspiration!

I have a spare 2C that needs something like this!!!


----------



## bykfixer (Sep 6, 2020)

Bumping a cool thread on a chilly fall-like early morning. 

My favorite mini-giant flashlight is a Kel-Lite 2C mentioned in post #5. Using Duracell solar lamp 18500's and an ultraclear glass lens by flashlight lens dot com meant for a Mag ML25. The bulb I settled on was a 4 cell pr base xenon bulb by Maglite. It's super duper throwey for such a small flashlight. 






Next door is a boat at about 75 feet.





The shed is about 500 feet away. 
Not bad for a 2c flashlight from 1972.


----------



## bykfixer (Sep 17, 2020)

A 2C Maglite bi-pin using stock parts and a pair of LifePo4 18500 batteries. 




I used a green bezel ring for quick ID which light it is. 





Using the 75mm ID PVC schedule 80 pipe for gap filler. 





No flashlight





The 2C using a 5 cell bulb. 
A dark brown swing set is about 350 feet away in the middle of the photo. 
Not too shabby for a 2C incan flashlight using 100% stock parts. 





See the Maglite reflector was made to withstand heat from a 7 cell light bulb so the 5 cell is no issue. And with it being a bi-pin bulb means a nice gap between the bulb and the plastic reflector.


----------



## xxo (Sep 17, 2020)

Looks good Byk, those old Mags can reach out a good bit. I used to have something similar back in the day - a 2C Mag running on 3 CR123's and a 6 cell bulb.


----------



## greenpondmike (Sep 18, 2020)

Maybe Mr. Tony ought to use these combinations (if y'all don't mind) and come out with a line of flashlights for the incandescent flashaholic since practically everyone else has gone led-even surefire. Most people will use their phones or go pay a buck or two, but we're the ones that will go $10+. If maglite is going to survive they need to cater to their buying base--us.

Edit: Hope that wasn't off topic any. I just had an ideal and wrote it down. I figure we'd all feel good about companies that will meet our needs/wants and since maglite inc. is aware of candlepowerforums they just might read this as part of their research into who is buying their product and what they want.


----------



## xxo (Sep 18, 2020)

greenpondmike said:


> Maybe Mr. Tony ought to use these combinations (if y'all don't mind) and come out with a line of flashlights for the incandescent flashaholic since practically everyone else has gone led-even surefire. Most people will use their phones or go pay a buck or two, but we're the ones that will go $10+. If maglite is going to survive they need to cater to their buying base--us.
> 
> Edit: Hope that wasn't off topic any. I just had an ideal and wrote it down. I figure we'd all feel good about companies that will meet our needs/wants and since maglite inc. is aware of candlepowerforums they just might read this as part of their research into who is buying their product and what they want.




It's easy enough to make your own, all you need is an incan Mag, the right bulb, cells and a spacer or adapter. I think I read somewhere that Mag stopped making the xenon C cell lights a year or two ago, but you can still find them pretty easy except for maybe the xenon ML25's.


----------



## greenpondmike (Sep 18, 2020)

I agree xxo and most of us can mod them. It's also fun to mod stuff--especially old vehicles, but wouldn't it be a trip if Mr. Tony would humor us by making a retro series maglite GT? We might be seeing more future incandescents since our president haulted the incan ban earlier this year. I heard though that the makers of LED lights are fighting him on this and that LEDS are subsidized by the government to make them more affordable.


----------



## greenpondmike (Sep 18, 2020)

That's a shame that they quit making the ML25it. I wanted one of those a while back when Mr. Fixer showed its potential. Maybe they will come back. I think a lot incan stuff was phased out only due to that regulation that was supposed to had happened ealier this year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think light manufacturers had knowledge of this for 8-10 years or longer.


----------



## bykfixer (Sep 18, 2020)

Tony turned off the switch at the light bulb making part of the factory in 2016 when California banned the light bulb. Now what you see in the market place is remaining stock piles. Dude had quite the operation going and could make enough product in one day to last the city of Boston a lifetime. The biggest sellers were the 2 and 3 cell D lites thanks to Wal Marts, Home Depot's and Lowes stores. 

In a last gasp attempt he made the ML25 in a 2 and 3 cell incan version as a way of legally being able to sell some of the leftover bulbs. If it flopped, he could recoup losses through tax breaks. If it succeded he'd make profit. They sold about as well as ice in the frozen Tundra. The 2 cell touted a whopping 30 lumens. 3 cell boasted 63 lumens. The masses at that time were gobbling up lumen wars numbers and anything under 300 lumens collected dust on store shelves. 

My favorite Maglite parts source Z Battery still has some ML25 incan lights in stock in a few colors. 

But I seriously doubt Maglite will return to the incan market. Best we can hope for is Spectum series ML25, 50 and 300's in warm tint.


----------



## greenpondmike (Sep 18, 2020)

Thanks Bykfixer. I didn't know about the cali ban, just a little on the national ban. Too bad he won't move somewhere else so he could do more without some mealy mouth yelling foul.


----------



## xxo (Sep 18, 2020)

I doubt that Mag will bring back the incan ML25's, I 'm sure they lost enough money on them already – even the LED ML25's don't seem to sell as well as they should. I guess most people rather buy crappy lights with supposed higher lumens (and much LESS throw/candlepower). The ML25IT would have been just the thing if it came out in the late 80's or early 90's, but Mag was 30 years too late!



Apparently Tony had sunk a ton of money into developing new break through technology in bulbs when the EPA shut him down.


----------



## bykfixer (Sep 18, 2020)

The LED ML 25 sold well at first. My first one was shortly after they came out. S/N was 10k plus. About a year later I bought one as a gift and the S/N was over a million. Sales flattened at some point though. 

When I bought my first IT version(s) S/N's were 019, 037 and 119. Two years later the S/N on one I bought was just over 12k. So that told me the incan version was a flop. Not surprising. Now if Tony did a 3x123 version with a 6 cell bulb that might do a lot better. Yet he prefers to avoid lithium batteries largely. I'm supposing that too is due to the California system where a kid riding a bike at night with reflectors on it was hit by a car and his family won in court agaisnt Huffy. That's why bicycles have stickers that say "always wear a helmet, do not ride at night", why a bottle of shampoo has "not for human consumption" and many sodas say "contents under pressure, do not aim at eyes when opening". Yet alkaline cells used wrong can also have a thermal runaway issue too. I had to toss a light with alkalines in it one day when my pocket got really hot. Nothing like a lithium does but did  when it hit the pavement and the plastic tail cap melted. Hence why the warning "never mix batteries".

Anyway, light bulbs are still plentiful and CPF members know how to get a 20 lumen flashlight to safely toss out 100 lumens or more. And the Maglite reflector causes it to look even brighter than that.


----------



## greenpondmike (Sep 18, 2020)

I'm just sitting here trying to figure out which version of the ml25it to buy-2c or 3c. Not practical to buy both since my chevy truck has been high maintenance ($$) and I want to save up to buy an old ford f150 a fellow at work has.


----------



## xxo (Sep 18, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> The LED ML 25 sold well at first. My first one was shortly after they came out. S/N was 10k plus. About a year later I bought one as a gift and the S/N was over a million. Sales flattened at some point though.
> 
> When I bought my first IT version(s) S/N's were 019, 037 and 119. Two years later the S/N on one I bought was just over 12k. So that told me the incan version was a flop. Not surprising. Now if Tony did a 3x123 version with a 6 cell bulb that might do a lot better. Yet he prefers to avoid lithium batteries largely. I'm supposing that too is due to the California system where a kid riding a bike at night with reflectors on it was hit by a car and his family won in court agaisnt Huffy. That's why bicycles have stickers that say "always wear a helmet, do not ride at night", why a bottle of shampoo has "not for human consumption" and many sodas say "contents under pressure, do not aim at eyes when opening". Yet alkaline cells used wrong can also have a thermal runaway issue too. I had to toss a light with alkalines in it one day when my pocket got really hot. Nothing like a lithium does but did  when it hit the pavement and the plastic tail cap melted. Hence why the warning "never mix batteries".
> 
> Anyway, light bulbs are still plentiful and CPF members know how to get a 20 lumen flashlight to safely toss out 100 lumens or more. And the Maglite reflector causes it to look even brighter than that.




Mag is set up for large production runs; I'm sure they need to make 10,000's if not 100,000's at a clip for it to be worth while. At one time Mag was making 150,000 lights a day.


----------



## xxo (Sep 18, 2020)

greenpondmike said:


> I'm just sitting here trying to figure out which version of the ml25it to buy-2c or 3c. Not practical to buy both since my chevy truck has been high maintenance ($$) and I want to save up to buy an old ford f150 a fellow at work has.



I was thinking of getting a 3C and running it on 2 protected 21700's with a 6 cell bulb, but I don't know if that would start to melt the reflector.


----------



## greenpondmike (Sep 18, 2020)

Sounds good xxo. Seems like I read somewhere on here that fivemega said that a 6 cell bulb might not melt the reflector if a 5 cell does-(hope I didn't say that wrong). It seems that in that case the 5 cell bulb was overdriven.


----------



## fivemega (Sep 19, 2020)

xxo said:


> I was thinking of getting a 3C and running it on 2 protected 21700's with a 6 cell bulb, but I don't know if that would start to melt the reflector.



*Maximum limit for plastic lens and reflector is 10 watt.
A 6 cell bulb is 7.2V, .9A or (7.2x0.9=6.48) watt. Still less than 10 watt.
In fact, every 2~7 incand cell flashlight is safe for plastic lens and reflector.
M*gCharger bulb is slightly more than 10W and comes with glass lens and metal reflector.*


----------



## xxo (Sep 19, 2020)

fivemega said:


> *Maximum limit for plastic lens and reflector is 10 watt. A 6 cell bulb is 7.2V, .9A or (7.2x0.9=6.48) watt. Still less than 10 watt. In fact, every 2~7 incand cell flashlight is safe for plastic lens and reflector. M*gCharger bulb is slightly more than 10W and comes with glass lens and metal reflector.*




The ML25IT's have a much smaller bulb opening in the plastic reflector than the normal C/D cell Mags which have larger openings for the old PR bulbs – the ML25's were made for the bi-pin bulbs only.


----------



## bykfixer (Sep 19, 2020)

Ordinarily I agree 100% FM, but like xxo said while I was typing in the case of the ML25 IT Maglite chose to punch a a very narrow hole in the reflector. Much like Streamlight used to do with the TL lights. So a wee bit of blister occurs next to the bulb when using hotter than 2 or 3 cell bulbs. The hotter the bulb the larger the area that blisters. Kinda scary at first but it does not end up affecting the beam over time as the initial blistered area doesn't expand much. 
The way I got around that was to drill out the 1/4" hole in the reflector with a 5/16" bit from the front then carve out a 3/8" hole by hand with a drill bit. I started out drilling out that extra 16th inch, ran it a few minutes and removed the reflector to feel how hot it got. It was pretty warm but not as bad as factory. The additional 16th" to make it total 3/8" when checked was nice and cool. Not completely cool mind you but after a 5 minute run it was hardly warm.






Before drilling it. 
3 cell model using 18650's and a TL3 bulb. Note melted foil around the edges and how close the bulb is to the plastic. 





After drilling. 
The gap does not affect the beam at all. I had not sanded the edges of the hole when the photo was taken so you see some ugly edges.





The beam after drilling





A reflector after sanding the edges. 
Nice and clean factory look.


----------



## xxo (Sep 19, 2020)

That's what kept me from getting a ML25IT when they first came out and they had them a target. Almost bought two of them, but when I saw how small the hole for the bulb was, I figured whatever I had in mind for a mod was likely to melt the reflector.


----------



## bykfixer (Sep 19, 2020)

At first I preferred the 2 cell one using a 4 cell bulb with a pair of solar lamp batteries (ie LifePo4 18500's) but after over sizing the hole I like the 3 cell with 1amp 18650's and a TL-3 bulb. 

Best to drill from the rear of the reflector btw. I did one from the front and one from the rear and the one drilled from the rear ended up cleaning up better. Plus no chance of scuffing the face of the reflector if drilling from the rear. Either grasp it very firmly before using a power drill or just use the drill bit to carve the hole out bigger by hand. Plastic is soft enough to where it is not very difficult.


----------



## fivemega (Sep 19, 2020)

xxo said:


> The ML25IT's have a much smaller bulb opening in the plastic reflector.
> the ML25's were made for the bi-pin bulbs only.



*That's why ML25IT's doesn't come in 6 cell version.*


----------



## greenpondmike (Sep 19, 2020)

I bet a 6c monster mini mag would be a sight to see fivemega


----------



## bykfixer (Sep 26, 2020)

Here's an odd one I bought at eBay a few years back. A 2C number made of solid brass using a simple twisty switch at the rear. Having a metal reflector I figured it would take heat well. 





So a pair of LifePo4 batteries and 4 cell maglite krypton bulb later……
Another big light bright in a small package was born. Ugly as a mud fence but when turned on it gets a "holy crap, that's a light bulb?" reaction every time.





Especially the guy across the street


----------



## snakebite (Oct 10, 2020)

first i heard of an incan ban including flashlights.
afaik all mag bulbs were made by a handfull of companies.
not made in house.
seems silly anyway to pass legislation targeting efficiency of a flashlight anyway.
but it is afterall california!


bykfixer said:


> Tony turned off the switch at the light bulb making part of the factory in 2016 when California banned the light bulb. Now what you see in the market place is remaining stock piles. Dude had quite the operation going and could make enough product in one day to last the city of Boston a lifetime. The biggest sellers were the 2 and 3 cell D lites thanks to Wal Marts, Home Depot's and Lowes stores.
> 
> In a last gasp attempt he made the ML25 in a 2 and 3 cell incan version as a way of legally being able to sell some of the leftover bulbs. If it flopped, he could recoup losses through tax breaks. If it succeded he'd make profit. They sold about as well as ice in the frozen Tundra. The 2 cell touted a whopping 30 lumens. 3 cell boasted 63 lumens. The masses at that time were gobbling up lumen wars numbers and anything under 300 lumens collected dust on store shelves.
> 
> ...


----------



## bykfixer (Oct 10, 2020)

Agreed SB

Here's where I read about it. 
https://nypost.com/2015/05/22/the-inspiring-story-of-maglite-inventor-tony-maglica/


----------

