# Are there any NIMH low discharge 9 volt batteries?



## Beacon of Light (Dec 6, 2007)

I have the regular NIMH Ray-O-Vac and Energizer 9 volts, but I would prefer the low discharge variety since they would be used in my guitars that run active pickups. Does anyone make these and are they planning on them? It would be great to see a 9v Eneloop or 9v Ray-O-Vac hybrid someday.


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## Marduke (Dec 6, 2007)

You'll see them make C's and D's first. AAAA's are unlikely LSD candidates due to their small size, and relative higher self discharge because of it.


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## Fallingwater (Dec 6, 2007)

I remember seeing a LiPo "9 volt" cell made with two 3.7/4.2 packs in a 9v casing. If you your gadgets can work with a bit less than 9 volts it could be a good idea.


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## TorchBoy (Dec 6, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> If you your gadgets can work with a bit less than 9 volts it could be a good idea.


9 volt batteries are less than 9 volt anyway under load, and especially so after they've done a bit of work.


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## Sub_Umbra (Dec 6, 2007)

Marduke said:


> You'll see them make C's and D's first. AAAA's are unlikely LSD candidates due to their small size, and relative higher self discharge because of it.


That would pretty much seem to cover it.

I would look for NiCD 9v batteries. For most uses they will probably have a low enough self discharge to work in your application. Whatever you buy, read the specs carefully. Some rechargeable 9v batteries have *more cells* than others -- and therefore a corespondingly _higher output voltage._ This factor alone can make or break many potential uses for 9v rechargable batteries.


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## Marduke (Dec 6, 2007)

Sub_Umbra said:


> That would pretty much seem to cover it.
> 
> I would look for NiCD 9v batteries. For most uses they will probably have a low enough self discharge to work in your application. Whatever you buy, read the specs carefully. Some rechargeable 9v batteries have *more cells* than others -- and therefore a corespondingly _higher output voltage._ This factor alone can make or break many potential uses for 9v rechargable batteries.



Yep. In the NiMH flavor alone, they have 6xAAAA versions that pump out 7.2v nominal, and 7xAAAA versions that pump out 8.4v nominal


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## Power Me Up (Dec 6, 2007)

Marduke said:


> You'll see them make C's and D's first. AAAA's are unlikely LSD candidates due to their small size, and relative higher self discharge because of it.



LSD Cs and Ds are already available:
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...batteriesbrprecharged-2-battery-pk-p-998.html
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...batteriesbrprecharged-2-battery-pk-p-997.html

I have found one site saying that LSD 9V batteries are on the way:
http://www.enekeep.com/index7.html


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## TorchBoy (Dec 7, 2007)

Marduke said:


> 7xAAAA versions that pump out 8.4v nominal


Seven AAAA cells won't fit in a 9 volt battery. Perhaps they use seven prismatic cells for those batteries.


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## Marduke (Dec 7, 2007)

Power Me Up said:


> LSD Cs and Ds are already available:
> http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...batteriesbrprecharged-2-battery-pk-p-998.html
> http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...batteriesbrprecharged-2-battery-pk-p-997.html
> 
> ...




But none in name brand, particularly the ROV or Eneloops requested by OP.


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## bcwang (Dec 7, 2007)

Marduke said:


> Yep. In the NiMH flavor alone, they have 6xAAAA versions that pump out 7.2v nominal, and 7xAAAA versions that pump out 8.4v nominal



Maha has one that uses 8 cells and puts out 9.6v as well.


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## Beacon of Light (Dec 12, 2007)

Thanks for the responses. I was hoping for something more promising than an unknown like Enekeep and who knows where one would even be able to buy them and for what price...

So there's no one in the know that has heard of Sanyo/Eneloop offering a low discharge 9v? Ray-O-Vac, heck I'd even settle for the Kodak low discharge if they made a 9v.


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## 2xTrinity (Dec 12, 2007)

Of products on the market, I'd suggest one of the LiIon 9V cells is your best bet -- LiIon chemistry tends to have low self-discharge compared to NiMH, and it will have almost double the capacity of a NiMH 9V cell to begin with, as well.


here
is one set I found after a quick google search.


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## Fallingwater (Dec 12, 2007)

I wish batteryspace had good prices for overseas shipping. I'd buy a crapload of stuff from them.
I don't get it why it costs pennies to ship stuff from Hong Kong, but shipping from the US has to be at least 35 dollars.


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## servaas (Dec 13, 2007)

Beacon of Light said:


> So there's no one in the know that has heard of Sanyo/Eneloop offering a low discharge 9v? Ray-O-Vac, heck I'd even settle for the Kodak low discharge if they made a 9v.


I have asked this question of Sanyo here in Australia.They said it would not happen because of the internal structure of 9V batteries was not compatible with the LSD structure.


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## Beacon of Light (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks 2xTrinity. Was wondering if the Li-Ion 9v batteries have a similar 500-1000 charge cycle lifespan or longer?

I see a neat looking 4 bay 9v charger that is new from iPower and it is switchable from Li-Ion or NICD/NIHM. No price listed yet at Thomas Distributing (must be that new???), but other places have it with a combo (2 batteries and a car charger adapter) but also no prices. 

Anyone know the difference in size too? Some of my guitars have small cavities and a marginally bigger battery would be tight.


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## moldyoldy (Dec 16, 2007)

bcwang said:


> Maha has one that uses 8 cells and puts out 9.6v as well.



As bcwang cited, there are Maha 9.6v 230mah NiMH batteries as available from T-D that serve my fire and smoke and CO2 detectors quite nicely. Are these batteries identified as "low self-discharge"? no, but the quality of this specific battery is high enough that I don't really care about the difference. I have almost a dozen in use in various smoke/ionization/CO2 detectors or several wireless mikes at church. no problems except that these 9.6v batteries are a shade larger than normal 9V batteries. The pastors have to pay attention to how the batteries are inserted into the wireless mikes. I lost 3 of the batteries to bent and finally broken-off terminals before the pastors understood what to do. On the other hand, the services are not bothered any more by the nearby state police tower breaking up the wireless mike transmission during a sermon ....! the advantage is due to the higher output voltage of the 9.6 battery and therefore higher transmission power from the wireless mike.

FWIW, I consider a smoke detector application to be low power such that the self discharge characteristic of the battery will be the primary driver as to length of use before recharging/replacement. With the maha 9.6v batteries in a various detectors, the run time is somewhere between 6 and 12 months before the "replace battery" beeper kicks in - all depending on the specific detector. The combo ionization/smoke detectors or CO2 detectors draw more current than just ionization detectors. Will those 9.6v batteries still supply sufficient current to signal a _loud_ warning buzzer or beeping close to the end of their useful charge? There was a CPF thread a while back that discussed that aspect at some length. I tested a few of these specific Maha 9.6v batteries under something I thought was close to end of charge - I had to plug my ears to let the detectors sound off long enough to be believable. no problem. 

An example of an actual usage mistake is related to one of my 3 CO2 detectors which normally run on AC power and use the 9.6V battery as a backup. I charged the Maha 9.6v battery in the summer, put it back into service and forgot about it. A handyman was working at our house during the day a couple days ago and pulled the wall-wart from the mains outlet - and left it that way. Somewhere about "oh-dark-thirty" (middle of the night for the non-military-ops people) the low voltage signal woke us up. Battery mission accomplished!  

Ergo, While a 9V battery with the label of "low discharge" does not appear to be available, in my experience the Maha 9.6v battery possesses sufficiently adequate electrical/chemical characteristics to come close enough to a "low self-discharge" battery for my usage. 

BTW, you really need to purchase the Maha MH-C490F charger that charges four 9.6v or 9V cells intelligently in a few hours, not all night as is usual with 9V charging stations. and then leave the cells on trickle charge after charge termination for longer than an hour. I credit that charger for saving 4 existing older 9v batteries from the recycling bin. It took a few charging cycles but the old 9V batteries were sufficiently rejuvenated to become useful again.


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## Sub_Umbra (Dec 16, 2007)

Moldy-

Thanks for the real-world experience.


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## Rzr800 (Dec 25, 2007)

Hope this is relevant...but would these Li-Pos be a candidate and what is anybody's opinion as to their use in small wireless cameras at sub-freezing temps? (this is the lonly 9V lithium rechargeable that Thomas Distributing lists).
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...html?SP_id=&osCsid=bv5dnp3nv3ths9o91q3jr8eh86

Thanks.


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## Sub_Umbra (Dec 25, 2007)

Rzr800,

That's really interesting. I wish Thomas weren't so thin on specs on that one. I'd love to here from someone who's been using them for a while.


Later:

I did a search and have been reading a bit about them. They have a nominal 8.4v with a discharge cut-off of 6.4v (see spec link below). Greater runtime than alkalines.

As usual with 9v rechargeables I'm seeing some *size* complaints. It would seem fundamental to me that any rechargeable cell/battery should conform to it's stated form factor. Go figure.

*iPowerUS Li-Polymer 9V 500mAh Specification*

Later still:

*This thread about iPowerUS Li-Polymer 9V 500mAh batteries* is a pretty good read from a sound man's perspective. One of the posts in it states that the newer batteries are *smaller* than the originals were.


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## Fallingwater (Dec 25, 2007)

> "Please Note: The nominal voltage of this battery is 8.4V."


No, it isn't. It's 7.4V. 8.4V is the fully charged voltage, which won't last long under load.


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## santza (Sep 26, 2008)

I got my hands onto this, it's a LSD 9v nimh from uniross. You can find more info in uniross website.





I will do some tests but I dont have enough time right now. I have a hobby charger so I can measure capacity and make a 30 day self DSC test. But I will post results on this thread! Nice to see a LSD 9V finally.


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## Beacon of Light (Oct 14, 2008)

santza said:


> I got my hands onto this, it's a LSD 9v nimh from uniross. You can find more info in uniross website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks like I wasn't crazy for requesting this way back when. Good job and keep us posted once you finish testing. Also where to buy this and what charger are you using?


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## Beacon of Light (Nov 5, 2008)

Any update from your test?

I also noticed Thomas Distributing carries the AA/AAA LSD Uniross batteries in the same packaging as the 9V but no 9V Unirosses.... I will give a call there and post back here with my findings if they plan to carry the 9V Uniross.


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## Beacon of Light (Nov 5, 2008)

Thomas Distributing DOES carry a LSD 9V but it is only a 200mAh battery and the name is a vague and cheap sounding vendor... Tysonic??? Anyone know about them at all or have used their batteries before?


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## Power Me Up (Nov 5, 2008)

For those CPF members in Australia looking for 9V LSD batteries, I spotted the Hybrio 9V LSD battery for sale at Harvey Norman for $15.95 a couple of days ago...


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## Closet_Flashaholic (Nov 5, 2008)

Beacon of Light said:


> Thomas Distributing DOES carry a LSD 9V but it is only a 200mAh battery and the name is a vague and cheap sounding vendor... Tysonic??? Anyone know about them at all or have used their batteries before?



I have some on order. I will post when I get them. Although I have limited test equipment for 9v. I will have to come up with something I guess.


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## Closet_Flashaholic (Nov 11, 2008)

Initial report:

I don't have anyway of determining remaining charge for a 9v battery. In theory, if they are truly LSD, then one would think that they should have a lot of capacity left in them (that's if you think 200 mAH is a "lot" of capacity)..

Battery 1 - 8.92 volts (no load)
Battery 2 - 8.99 volts (no load).

Charging now.

The plan is to put 1 of them into immediate service and let the other sit on a shelf for a couple of months and see how it fares.. I will probably just check the voltage (under a .1C load) every couple of weeks and report in this thread, if anyone is interested, besides me.


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## Nubo (Nov 12, 2008)

Beacon of Light said:


> Thomas Distributing DOES carry a LSD 9V but it is only a 200mAh battery and the name is a vague and cheap sounding vendor... Tysonic??? Anyone know about them at all or have used their batteries before?



How much room do you have, or how ugly of a solution can you tolerate? How about a 7 or 8 AAA holder (or pack), wired to a 9V connector? Way more capacity.


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## frosty (Nov 13, 2008)

santza said:


> I got my hands onto this, it's a LSD 9v nimh from uniross. You can find more info in uniross website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I've just picked up some of these to replace my older uniross 9v batteries.

The description on the packet states that they are LSD. I think that the general consensus was that Uniross LSD are rebadged Eneloops, so I am hoping for similar performance. It's a shame that Sanyo don't make their own version.


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## MattK (Nov 14, 2008)

I am 99% sure that Uniross LSD are NOT rebadged Eneloops.


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## Mr Happy (Nov 14, 2008)

MattK said:


> I am 99% sure that Uniross LSD are NOT rebadged Eneloops.


Some of them are indistinguishable from Eneloops, but of course that doesn't mean all of them are.

There also are reports that the Uniross branded LSD sold in Europe or Australia are different from the ones in the USA, and more than one kind of Uniross LSD has been seen in the USA too.

So I guess it's complicated. But after months of use I still find my AA Hybrios perform just like Eneloops and I am happy to buy more of them since I can get them for $9.99 in a B&M.


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## Beacon of Light (Nov 27, 2008)

So who can report back on the performance of the Uniross Hybrio LSDs and the Tysonic 9v LSDs?


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## Beacon of Light (Nov 27, 2008)

Also noticed the iPower Lithium Ion rechargeable 9 volts have a higher capacity 9v cell. 520 mAh verses the older 500 mAh. I wonder why Trew Audio is the only one selling a combo deal (4) 9 volt cells with the iPower charger. Wish Thomas Distributing sold this combo.


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## levi420 (Feb 2, 2009)

MattK said:


> I am 99% sure that Uniross LSD are NOT rebadged Eneloops.



I've ordered some Hybrio 9v(8.4) from a ebay retailer(about US$8.50 apiece with shipping). I've read some reviews/tests here in the forums that have shown AA and AAA hybrios have slightly lower self discharge than eneloops. My apoligize for not finding/posting due credit here... I'll do some cycles when I get mine and post the results.


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## Beacon of Light (Mar 11, 2009)

_Order questions and confirmations are not permitted on CPF proper. Some posts have been edited or removed to comply._


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## TorchBoy (Nov 7, 2009)

Any updates? What's the present state of the 9 volt LSD battery field?


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## MattK (Nov 8, 2009)

Well the iPower lithiums are still a better choice given they have 3x the capacity but if you must have NiMh LSD 9V I saw this recently: http://www.ansmann.us/batteries/maxelowselfdischarge.html


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## Black Rose (Nov 8, 2009)

Rayovac has had 9V Hybrids available in the US and Canada for several months now.


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## TorchBoy (Nov 8, 2009)

Those lithium batts are 7.4 V, right? I don't have an appropriate charger, either.


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## MattK (Nov 8, 2009)

8.4 fully charged, ~7.2 when 80% empty.


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## Closet_Flashaholic (Jul 6, 2010)

Closet_Flashaholic said:


> I have some on order. I will post when I get them. Although I have limited test equipment for 9v. I will have to come up with something I guess.



I can say that I have been using 2 of these for about 1.5 years now and yes, they seem to be holding up well for my application. I have been using one on/off for this period of time, whereas the other one has maintained its original charge applied at the time of purchase. I just swapped it this past weekend and it's working.

I have no facilities for determining remaining capacity for these type of batteries, but based on how I am using them, I am happy.


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## alpg88 (Jul 6, 2010)

my buddy has a guitar with build in tuner, at least that is what i call that thing, it runs on 9v battery, few years back i bought him lithium 9v battery, i paid $10 at radio shack, it is still works, and not showing any signs of dying yet, he would've changed regular alkalines at least 5 times, over this time, so its high price isn't really high.


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## Ray_of_Light (Jul 6, 2010)

I use these 9 V LSD from VARTA:

http://www.varta-microbattery.com/e...ta/LEAFLET_Rechargeable_Ni-MH_9V_Block_en.pdf

They are made with 7x 1/2AAAA cells, 200 mA/h capacity.
They are available at the big electronic superstore chain (of German ownership) here in Italy, at the price 7 Euro each. 
Charge retention is very good.

Since Varta shares production and distribution with Ray'O'Vac, may be these 9 V LSD will be available in the US too.

Anthony


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## Beacon of Light (Jul 7, 2010)

I have the iPower Li-Ions and they seem to be working well but I don't use these in high drain devices so time will tell. The iPower Li-Ion/NiMh charger works well and surprisingly quickly. Pretty happy all the way around. Still wish Eneloop got into the ring here. Oh well...


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## Black Rose (Jul 7, 2010)

Ray_of_Light said:


> Since Varta shares production and distribution with Ray'O'Vac, may be these 9 V LSD will be available in the US too.


They've been available in Canada for over a year.
They should be in the US as well.

I haven't bought any as they are not economical for my usage - $14 for a single Rayovac Hybrid 9V or $6 for a 6-pack of Rayovac 9V alkaline cells which will do us a couple of years.


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## Beacon of Light (Jul 7, 2010)

Black Rose said:


> They've been available in Canada for over a year.
> They should be in the US as well.
> 
> I haven't bought any as they are not economical for my usage - $14 for a single Rayovac Hybrid 9V or $6 for a 6-pack of Rayovac 9V alkaline cells which will do us a couple of years.



who sells Ray-O-Vac Hybrid 9v cells? (I had to check to make sure you didn't make a typo as I have never even seen one, even among other AA/AAA Hybrid cells for sale) I see they also make C and D cells (but I have never seenm these for sale either at department stores like Walmart/Target or hardware stores like Lowes/Home Depot). 

The Ray-O-Vac website DOES list the Hybrid 9v as LSD so this may be the first I will be able to buy here in the US provided local retailers are even carrying them. Heck I had a hard time finding the Hybrids as Walmart no longer sells them (they went back to the regular Ray-O-Vac NiMh cells) and I got them at the Target clearance a few months ago.







It is odd that though it is labeled a hybrid it doesn't say pre-charged on the packaging like the other Hybrids. Just an oversight? The description says it is pre-charged, but I wonder why Ray-O-Vac omits this on the packaging of the 9v only?


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## Black Rose (Jul 8, 2010)

Wal-mart sells them here in Canada. I think it depends where you live in the US.

The C & D Hybrids were spotted at some stores in California last year, but no one else has mentioned seeing them.
They are regular stock at Wally World up here.


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## Beacon of Light (May 15, 2011)

Any new updates almost a year later? Other than the iPower I had to buy online, I have yet to see these in retail stores or any low discharge 9v batteries for that matter.


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## servaas (May 15, 2011)

Beacon of Light said:


> Any new updates almost a year later? Other than the iPower I had to buy online, I have yet to see these in retail stores or any low discharge 9v batteries for that matter.


 Powerex Launched their 250mAh 8.4V and 230mAH 9.6V IMEDION batteries in October 2010. 

They also launched IMEDION C and D cells.


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## Napalm (May 16, 2011)

Maha is actually selling them under the "Imedion" name they use for low self discharge batteries and they say "retains 85% of charge after one year".

The 9.6V is available at Canada Computers, also the Maha 4 slot 9V charger.

http://www.canadacomputers.com/

Nap.


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