# Princeton Tec Apex NiMH Runtime Test Updated With (Low Discharge) Titanium 2100 AA's



## GCBStokes (Mar 24, 2007)

*Princeton Tec Apex NiMH Rechargeable AA Battery Runtime Test*

I have been very please with the runtime I've been getting from my NiMH Rechargeable AA Batteries in my Princeton Tec Apex Headlamps. These are the ones I really like a lot, and two (2) of them stand out from the rest by a significant margin. I did my runtime testing with 14 different brands of NiMH AA Batteries. 

For my runtime tests I use one of my Princeton Tec Apex Headlamps (Stock/None Modified) for each of the test. I ran the runtime test with each set of batteries three (3) times and selected the high end runtime of the three tests as my recorded runtime. Each test was conducted with the Apex set on the high 3 watt mode. I use a digital timer and concluded the runtime test when the Apex Low Battery Power Flash Started. I was told by Princeton Tec that the Low Battery Power Flash signals when the headlamp falls out of regulation.


*(1) Sanyo 2700 mAh NiMH AA's - 4 hours 22 minutes 17 seconds*

*(2) Powerex 2700 mAh NiMH AA's - 4 hours 21 minutes 36 seconds*

*(3) Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA’s - 3 hours 52 minutes 47 seconds*

*(4) Sanyo 2500 mAh NiMH AA's - 3 hours 36 minutes 21 seconds*

*(5) Titanium 2600 mAh NiMH AA's - 3 hours 35 minutes 52 seconds *

*(6) Energizer 2500 mAh NiMH AA's - 3 hours 28 minutes 32 seconds*

*(7) Titanium 2400 mAh NiMH AA's - 3 hours 27 minutes 28 seconds*

*(8) Titanium 2100 mAh (Low Self-Discharge) NiMH AA's - 3 hours 14 minutes 53 Seconds*

*(9) Sanyo Eneloop 2000 mAh (Low Self-Discharge) AA's - 3 hours 07 minutes 28 Seconds*

*(10) Rayovac Hybrid (Low Self-Discharge) NiMH AA’s - 3 hours 07 minutes 21 seconds*



Note: Even though I did test these other batteries that ran better then the Tenergy 2600 AA's, I would like to mention the Tenergy 2600 NiMH AA's. They run for just over 3 hours in my Apex Headlamp, and they cost under $6.00 per set of four (4) from BatteryJunction.com. Also note that the Sanyo 2500 mAh AA's got my #3 spot, but the Titanium 2600 mAh AA's actually run better on two of my 3 tests, they just had the lower low-runtime. Me personally if I had to pick between the Titanium 2600 and the Sanyo 2500 batteries, I would go with the Titanium 2600. I'm very impressed with all of the Titanium NiMH Batteries. The Titanium 2700's are very good batteries and if they follow in the footsteps of the Titanium 2400 & 2600 Batteries, they will last a very long time giving many, many charge cycles over the years. I have some that are 2 and 3 years old have have been charged hundreds of times and they still perform great! But as of now, when it comes to runtime in my Apex Headlamp the Sanyo 2700 AA's are champs with the Powerex 2700 AA's coming in a close second. With these two batteries you can expect over 4 hours and 15 minutes of regulated runtime! With runtimes like that, I find no need to use lithium AA's other then for cold weather performance during the coldest days of January and February in my Apex Headlamps.

*Note:* I understand that runtime with different Apex Headlamps and different sets of the same brand and capacity AA NiMH Batteries will differ slighty. However, in use in my Princeton Tec Apex, this is the order they finish in. And I hope all can use my Apex runtime tests to get a good gernal idea of how these batteries will perform in their Apex Headlamps.

*And A Special Note:* I would like to thank Tom (SilverFox) for his help and giving me tips and the how-to's of battery care, matching and charging tips using my Maha C-9000 Chargers. I still have much to learn, but he's gotten me started down the right path and on my way. I have come to know him as the "Godfather Of The Candlepowerforums."


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## Patriot (Mar 24, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test With The New Sanyo & Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's*

Wow! Nice runtime tests. That's a lot of work. Thanks Stokes


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## javafool (Mar 24, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test With The New Sanyo & Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's*

Great job and good information. I would expect to see a considerably shorter runtime, but did you run the Sanyo eneloop batteries? Since I don't use my headlamps often, but really need tham when I need them, the eneloop low self discharge rate is quite apealing for my uses.


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## GCBStokes (Mar 24, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test With The New Sanyo & Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's*

Patriot,


> Wow! Nice runtime tests. That's a lot of work. Thanks Stokes



Thank you, it was a lot of work, but it wasn't hard work. We had some nasty Winter Weather here over the last few weeks and I was unable to work on my research projects. A little snow is not bad, but Ice/Sleet Storms make climbing to nesting boxes very dangerous work. 

Being stuck indoors because of the storms gave me the time I needed to do this testing, and I was able to do a lot of work putting research data on my computer at the same time. I had the headlamp right next to me as I ran the tests and the timer was next to my computer mouse. When my Apex would drop out of regulation, I would hit the timer like the people on those game shows.


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## GCBStokes (Mar 24, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test With The New Sanyo & Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's*

javafool,


> Great job and good information. I would expect to see a considerably shorter runtime, but did you run the Sanyo eneloop batteries? Since I don't use my headlamps often, but really need tham when I need them, the eneloop low self discharge rate is quite apealing for my uses.



I believe your right, the runtime would most likely be lower because the Eneloop AA Batteries are only 2000 mAh. However, I would still expect close to 3 hours of runtime. That's still great runtime and it greatly out performs any Alkaline AA's, and they're rechargeable, meaning great savings over the long run. And being a rechargeable NiMH battery, they are environmentally friendly. Longer runtime, saving you money over time and being environmentally friendly, why would anyone not choose NiMH batteries? 

I plan on ordering some of the AA and AAA Eneloop Batteries. I don't thing I'll be using them in my main headlamps because I work long night-time hours in the forest an need the higher capacity. I plan on using them in our remote controls and other around the house things. And I'll be using them in my emergency flashlights and headlamp here in the house. In each bedroom, the kitchen, living room and bathroom I have a Streamlight 4 AA LED (With (7) 5mm LEDs) and a Streamlight Enduro (2 AAA) Headlamp. 

But I will also test them in my Apex and EOS Headlamps. After I test them, I'll add the runtime test to this list.


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## GCBStokes (Mar 30, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test With The New Sanyo & Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's*

Just to let you all know, I have Sanyo Eneloop AA Batteries along with Maha MH-C9000 and Maha MH-C801D Battery Chargers on the way. I'll be updating my runtime test list and adding the runtime of my Princetion Apex with the Eneloop AA's. I'm also going to condition all of my batteries with the C-9000 Charger and reconduct my tests. I suspect my runtimes may improve after the batteries have been conditioned and recharged with the C-9000 Battery Charger. I don't believe the charger I have been using charges and/or conditions batteries as well as the C-9000. After I'm done I'll post the new runtime tests and the runtime test with the Eneloop Batteries.

Because of my high work load and the use of many headlamps not just by myself, but my co-workers for use in my research, and the fact the my wife, 3 kids and myself all have headlamps that we use for camping and night hiking, I really needed an 8 bay charger. However, I really wanted the C-9000. So, I bought both.:naughty: 

I told my wife I needed two chargers for my scientific research. 
Not a word about it, please.........


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## Daekar (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test With The New Sanyo & Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's*

Has anybody explored the possibility of modding an Apex to accept an SSC P4 or Cree? I know you can mod the EOS, but I really would prefer the runtime of the AA batteries... I'm new at modding (just did some resistance-reduction modding to my maglite tonight) so I'm afraid I wouldn't be qualified to determine whether it was possible or not.


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## jjyoung (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test With The New Sanyo & Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's*

I put a ssc p4 in my apex. It is about twice as bright. The regular optics work fine but I modified a ims 20 to fit and it gives a much tighter beam of light for a longer throw.


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## Daekar (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test With The New Sanyo & Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's*



jjyoung said:


> I put a ssc p4 in my apex. It is about twice as bright. The regular optics work fine but I modified a ims 20 to fit and it gives a much tighter beam of light for a longer throw.



How involved was that? I mean, did you just desolder the stock LED off and just solder the SSC p4 on in its place? Can I do this with just solder, or do I need some other products? (maybe some kind of heatsink paste?) I've never taken apart an LED before so I'm kinda lost. Do I need to take out the stock PCB (if there is one) and put in a different one?

EDIT: I'm assuming that this light is constructed similarly to the EOS, which has some modding directions posted for it. The only thing I haven't figured out yet is, what size reflector does the Apex have? In the EOS it's a 17mm, and they look the same size to me, but it's hard to tell without having them both side by side. I guess I'll find out because I have a P4 Star, 20mm Khatod reflector, and some alumina thermal epoxy coming from Photonfanatic...


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## jjyoung (Apr 7, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test With The New Sanyo & Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's*

If you search the forum a little you will find pictures of the emitter swap. I didn't measure the stock optics but just guessing I would say it's around 21mm. I tried a L2 5 degree optic before the ims 20 and it worked alright but it didn't have the spot I wanted. The ims 20 is too tall and wide with the legs. If you shave the legs down a little and sand the top of the reflector down to the same height as the stock optic it will fit without glue or anything. I used a belt sander and just held the reflector by hand.


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## LiteTheWay (Apr 7, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test With The New Sanyo & Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's*

Thanks for the tests GCBS. Another vote for the Sanyo it seems.


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## GCBStokes (Apr 7, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test With The New Sanyo & Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's*

7histology,


> Thanks for the tests GCBS. Another vote for the Sanyo it seems.


 
Thank you and your right, the Sanyo 2700 mAh NiMH AA Batteries are unsurpassed in capacity. The Titanium 2700 mAh NiMH AA's are also very impressive. With either one of this batteries, you just can't go wrong. They both really stand out among all others. In all of my runtime testing the Sanyo 2700 ran slightly longer, but in each case it was just a few minutes, a difference one would not see in actual use. The strange thing is, with my Apex Headlamp used in the Low 3 Watt Mode, the Titanium 2700 AA's ran longer then the Sanyo 2700 AA's. In most cases it was less then 5 minutes, in one test it was 14 minutes. I thought that this was strange and tried different sets, but in each case it was the same, the Titanium AA ran slightly less in the High 3 Watt Mode, but slightly longer in the Low 3 Watt Mode. 

I can't explain this, perhaps someone with a better understanding of NiMH Batteries could help me out on this one?

In actual use you would not notice a difference between the Sanyo 2700 or the Titanium 2700 AA's in an Apex Headlamp. It's just a matter of a few minutes, with Sanyo 2700 AA's doing slightly better in the High 3 Watt Mode and the Titanium 2700 mAh MiMH AA's doing slightly better in the Low 3 Watt Mode. 

And they both also hold their charge for weeks. I charged a set of Sanyo and Titanium 2700 AA's and put them in my desk draw. Seven weeks later I took them out and tested them with my ZTS MBT-1 Battery Tester, and both sets tested at 80% capacity!

I haven't posted anything as of yet, because I want to test some more brands, but it would seem that the Sanyo 1000 mAh and the Titanium 1000 mAh AAA NiMH Batteries are runtime leader in our Princeton Tec EOS Headlamps. It would seem to me that makers of Sanyo and the makes of Titanium NiMH Batteries are doing thing right, they are very impressive batteries. We have Titanium 2400, 2600 and 2700 mAh AA. Some of our Titanium 2400 and 2600 AA are over 3 years old and have been use extensively, charged and recharged hundreds of times each year and they still work great! 

Has anyone else has such good luck with the Titanium Brand AA and AAA Batteries? I'm thinking of trying the Titanium 2100 mAh Enduro AA's and 900 mAh AAA's to see how the stack up the Sanyo's very impress Eneloop Batteries. The above batteries are better for use in our Headlamps because of the better capacity and therefore give better runtime, but we have be using eneloops in our Battery Testers, remotes, weather radios and other equipment. I'm also going to use Low Self-Discharge AA and AAA's around the house for my TV, DVD, VCR and digital video camera remotes and emergency flashlights and headlamps. I really like the Eneloop Batteries, but I want to try the Titanium Enduro's as well. Has anyone had experience with these batteries from Amondotech? If they are of the same high quality as their other Titanium Batteries, they should also be winners


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## GCBStokes (Apr 9, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex Runtime Test - Sanyo Eneloop's Added*

I just added the Sanyo Eneloop 2000 mAh AA's to my Prinection Tec Apex Headlamp NiMH Runtime Test.

After opening the Eneloop AA's, I tested them on my ZTS BMT-1 Battery Tester and they were at 80% out of the package. I put them into one of my Apex Headlamp and used it working in the field that night. The next day I turned on the Apex and left it on to run the batteries down. Afterwards I charged them in my new C-9000 Battery Charger at the low 250 mA setting, and let the set in the charger over night to keep that at full capacity. The next day I took them off the charger and let the set 1 hour before the test.

I put the runtime on the list at the start of my thread.


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## GCBStokes (Apr 20, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex NiMH Runtime Test - Up Date With Powerex 2700 AA Added*

I have updated the runtime test. I've added the Powerex 2700 mAh AA to the list and updated the Sanyo 2700 mAh AA runtime. I have recently started using the 
Maha C-9000 Charger. After getting my C-9000 I ran the Sanyo 2700 AA's there the Refresh/Analyze Mode, first charging at 1500 mAh then discharging at 1000 mAh and then charging at 1500 mAh again. As you can see, it's given me better runtime. I had suspect that I was not getting the best out of my batteries using my old charger, and it would seem that my suspicions were right.

The runtime I'm getting with the 2700 mAh NiMH AA's are approaching the runtime I get with Energizer Lithium AA. With the Energizer Lithium AA's, I get up to 4 hours 33 minutes runtime. With the Sanyo 2700 NiMH AA's I got 4 hours 22 minutes 17 second and with the Powerex 2700 NiMH AA's I'm got 4 hours 20 minutes 36 seconds. With the Titanium 2700, Sanyo 2500 and Titanium 2600 AA's I get very little improvement. Why this would be with these batteries, I don't know. Perhaps one of the pros can take a shot at, as to why? 

It would seem that as far as runtime goes, when used in my Apex Headlamp, the Sanyo 2700 mAh AA retain their title as heavy weight champs, winning a very close fight by split decision over the Powerex 2700 mAh AA's.


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## GCBStokes (Apr 23, 2007)

*Re: Princeton Tec Apex NiMH Runtime Test Updated With (Low Discharge) Titanium 2100 AA's*

*Titanium 2100 mAh (Low Self-Discharge) NiMH AA PT Apex Runtime Test*

I just finished my Princeton Tec Apex Headlamp runtime testing with the Titanium 2100 mAh (Low Self-Discharge) NiMH AA Batteries. And the word on them is Wow! I wanted to get these batteries to see how well the stand up to the Sanyo Eneloop AA's. And as far as runtime in an PT Apex Headlamps goes, they actually ran longer then the Sanyo Eneloop AA's! I don't have any idea how they stand up to the Eneloops as far as discharge rate and cycle life goes. This is something that only time will tell. In fact from what I've learned, it's still wait and see on all of the new (Low Self-Discharge) batteries because of the fact they are all so new and there is no long term use experience with any of them. However, the people I have talked with all seem to agree that they seem to be as good as the manufactures claim they are. 

What I can tell you is these Titanium 2100 mAh (Low Self-Discharge) are very high quality Cells, and I was very pleasantly surprised with their performance. From what I can see, Amondotech.com has a real winner here and a very serious contender. And in my Apex Runtime Test they actually out performing the eneloops! 

I also would like to point out that the batteries that I received were all very evenly matched. And in three runtime tests they ran within 30 seconds of the other tests. This would seem to indicate that they perform with very good consistency. I can very easily see these Titanium 2100 (Low Self-Discharge) becoming one of my favorite batteries.


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## GCBStokes (Jun 5, 2007)

*Princeton Tec Apex NiMH Runtime Test Updated With Rayovac Hybrid Low Discharge AA's*

I finally got around to testing my newly acquired Rayovac Hybrid (Low Self-Discharge) NiMH AA's in one of my Princeton Tec Apex Headlamps. Talk about a neck & neck race! The Rayovac Hybrids and the Sanyo Eneloop are just about dead even in my runtime test. With the batteries that I own, the Sanyo Eneloop, Titanium Enduro and Rayovac Hybrids all seem to be very high quality batteries with very similar performance. They don't have the capacity of the high quality 2700 NiMH AA Batteries that are available, but if you don't use your headlamp often and it sits for long periods of time between uses, all of these batteries are a very good choices.


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