# M*g1185/1166 for first Incan.



## My3kidsfather (Jul 20, 2009)

Charged the new 26650's to about 4.15v. to possibly avoid flashing the bulbs, and headed outside for a peek at my first incan. Tried the WA1166 first- nice. Next popped the WA1185 in the new 4C M*g and looked around a bit. We have a park on our back fence and the light reached across the baseball/football field lighting up houses and car tailights way down the street. then I realized the light was lighting up all the front living rooms across the field. lol..

Without Fivemega's G4 bi-pin adaptor this would not be happening. Thanks for breaking all this ground in incans and sharing your solutions guys. This is gonna be great at work. Will see about runtime, possible heat problems. It's gonna be interesting.


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## Patriot (Jul 20, 2009)

Oh neat! Hey, I wanted to asked about the 26650's in the 4C mag. Is it a mod-less fit or so you have to stretch the spring for 3 cells?


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 20, 2009)

Patriot said:


> Oh neat! Hey, I wanted to asked about the 26650's in the 4C mag. Is it a mod-less fit or so you have to stretch the spring for 3 cells?



Patriot- Greyshark, ("_Screaming White Incan Goodness_"), put me onto these Golden Dragon 26650's (formally known as 26700's) C cells from Voltmanbatteries. At first they did not fit in the tube of my C-M*gs but were wrapped in a heavy paper wrapper. So I took off the wrapper and found a steel case with the positive post insulated by a plastic ring. These 3000mah C-cells slipped right in with precision. No mods required to tailcap spring. 

As it was suggested to me, you may want to get a new reflector, new borofloat lens, Fivemega's bi-pin adaptors and suggest either an WA1185 (making your M*g a Mag85) Also it was suggested to me a WA1166 bulb also will handle today's (AW's) 3xIMR battery's slightly higher working voltage as it has a higher ceiling for voltage as well as works fine with your regular 3xLi-ions.

If allowed to, here is two links I know of to two C-cell sellers:

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=5161

http://www.voltmanbatteries.com/servlet/the-3365/26650-BATTERY-REPLACES-A123/Detail

As I understand it, both businesses have good reps. I used Voltman this time.

Late last night both bulbs were tested with the batteries lightly charged. Today they were fully charged with the UltraFire 139 slightly overcooking them to 4.22v-4.23v. Gotta watch that for sure. You can't believe the first time you lite her up.. will look for a better place to point it without annoying neighbours.


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 20, 2009)

Can you tell your bulbs apart? I happened to be holding both the 1166 and the 1185 in either hand and suddenly realized I did not know which was which. I did not want to put the 1185 in with 3xLi-ion's slightly overcharged so began a search for pics of either or both the bulbs. Could not find either in a post where the bulbs were featured in a close up pic... then searched the Welch Allyn web site for info/pics. Could not find pics but got a link to info regarding the size of the elements and discovered the 1166, which handles higher voltage, is actually smaller and shorter inside the glass:

0*1166*-U 1.97 3,450 56.00 Hemispherical 7.11 20 Halogen-Krypton S – (Length)_*2.5400 *_(Width)_*0.8128*_

0*1185*-U 3.15 3,370 65.00 Hemispherical 7.11 50 Halogen-Krypton S – *2.9210 0.8630*

Go figure. I had the bigger stronger looking element pegged as being the 1166..


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## gswitter (Jul 21, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> At first they did not fit in the tube of my C-M*gs but were wrapped in a heavy paper wrapper. So I took off the wrapper and found a steel case with the positive post insulated by a plastic ring. These 3000mah C-cells slipped right in with precision.


So the only thing isolating the cells from ground is the Mag's anodizing?

It doesn't take much to scrape through it.


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 21, 2009)

gswitter said:


> So the only thing isolating the cells from ground is the Mag's anodizing?
> 
> It doesn't take much to scrape through it.




As the body of the battery is the negative pole should it matter? As long as the positive is not grounding it should be ok?


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## bxstylez (Jul 21, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> Can you tell your bulbs apart? I happened to be holding both the 1166 and the 1185 in either hand and suddenly realized I did not know which was which. I did not want to put the 1185 in with 3xLi-ion's slightly overcharged so began a search for pics of either or both the bulbs. Could not find either in a post where the bulbs were featured in a close up pic... then searched the Welch Allyn web site for info/pics. Could not find pics but got a link to info regarding the size of the elements and discovered the 1166, which handles higher voltage, is actually smaller and shorter inside the glass:
> 
> 0*1166*-U 1.97 3,450 56.00 Hemispherical 7.11 20 Halogen-Krypton S – (Length)_*2.5400 *_(Width)_*0.8128*_
> 
> ...


taken from this thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2675096


https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2674068&postcount=4






https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2674354&postcount=5









.


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## Patriot (Jul 22, 2009)

Thanks My3Kids! I appreciate the info. These look like very interesting cells. I take it that the 26650's would require a spring be used since they're shorter? Or are they all officially 26650's.....meaning 65mm and not 70mm?


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## lctorana (Jul 22, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> As the body of the battery is the negative pole should it matter? As long as the positive is not grounding it should be ok?


OK - now think about the second cell. And the third...


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## gswitter (Jul 22, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> As the body of the battery is the negative pole should it matter? As long as the positive is not grounding it should be ok?


Right. And there's no problem with the cell closest to the tailcap. But if the case of either of the two forward cells isn't isolated from the body of the light, it will short the cell(s) behind it (and turn the body of the light into a nice heating element).


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## GreyShark (Jul 22, 2009)

It's not exactly like paper and shrink wrap are adamantium either but there's a number of people running around with batteries in raw aluminum bored Mags and SF's. Then there's others who run unprotected cells. Even primaries have been known to blow up on occasion. It would be wise to check the battery tube for wear before dropping your cells back in after a charge.

While I have successfully run the 26650 in a 4C Mag for while the death of the 1166 will cause me to put the 26650's on the beck shelf for the time being since they'll flash an 1185 and that's what I'm going back to. Protected 18650's will replace the 26650's length for length if you can come up with a spacer for the diameter and they won't flash the 1185 even fresh off the charger thanks to the built in resistance. Since AW recently released the 2600mah 18650's you're only giving up 400mah of capacity anyway. I don't know how much capacity you'd lose by not bringing the 26650's up to full voltage but my guess is it comes out to be very little difference between that the new 18650's.

Still, I prefer a safe chemistry cell to a circuit protected cell. When my lathe arrives one of my first projects will be making a host built from the ground up for 26650's.


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## Mjolnir (Jul 22, 2009)

So are these the same as "IMR" cells? Any idea how these will work with the pelican 3854 H bulb? If I used these, I would need to use the 3853 H bulb to prevent the bulb from getting destroyed, right?


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 24, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> So are these the same as "IMR" cells? Any idea how these will work with the pelican 3854 H bulb? If I used these, I would need to use the 3853 H bulb to prevent the bulb from getting destroyed, right?



Mjolnir- Hi. As I have read in other posts the 3854H should not flash while driven by 3x normal Li-ion C cells. The bulb will flash if exposed to 3x AW's IMR26500's. Hence the higher voltage Pelican 3853H is suggested which should brighten up your life without being damaged by the slightly higher working voltage of IMR's. I am trying to find a local outlet to buy these bulbs here in Edmonton, Alberta as we have Pelican's North American Distribution Center Warehouse right here.


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 24, 2009)

Just wanted to say the Mag1166 worked out well at work this last trip. sufficient light for 100 yards or a little further and runtime was sufficient to last both directions on an average trip. Looking forward to more light, better reflector choices. Do we have a thread on Mag reflectors bulb choice for throw/spill uses? What is your fav reflector with a WA 1166?


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## KiwiMark (Jul 24, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> Mjolnir- Hi. As I have read in other posts the 3854H should not flash while driven by 3x normal Li-ion C cells. The bulb will flash if exposed to 3x AW's IMR26500's. Hence the higher voltage Pelican 3853H is suggested which should brighten up your life without being damaged by the slightly higher working voltage of IMR's. I am trying to find a local outlet to buy these bulbs here in Edmonton, Alberta as we have Pelican's North American Distribution Center Warehouse right here.



I think that you will find it is 2 x Li-ion cells. 3 x Li-ion cells will instaflash the 3853 or 3854 and both H or L bulbs.

The 3853H should be OK with AW's IMR 26500 x 2 and be nice & bright. This would be an easy mod for a Mag 2C - everything will fit right in.


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 24, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> I think that you will find it is 2 x Li-ion cells. 3 x Li-ion cells will instaflash the 3853 or 3854 and both H or L bulbs.
> 
> The 3853H should be OK with AW's IMR 26500 x 2 and be nice & bright. This would be an easy mod for a Mag 2C - everything will fit right in.



KiwiMark- You are correct 3x will fry 3854/4's butts. Thankyou for the update and I will be trying out this combo soon. Do you use them (ROP) and what for?


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## KiwiMark (Jul 24, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> KiwiMark- You are correct 3x will fry 3854/4's butts. Thankyou for the update and I will be trying out this combo soon. Do you use them (ROP) and what for?



I have 3 of the Mag 2D torches and currently have all of them using ROP bulbs. The 3854L is probably the best for general use - I get 2 hours run time from 2 x D cell Li-ion (www.kaidomain.com). This is a great torch to grab (I have one in easy grabbing range right now) for any thing you need around the home. I also take it with me when going camping. It has good brightness and colour as well as good run time - great for general use. The 3854L works fine from the Kaidomain protected D cells (the protection circuit limits the maximum amps to about 3.5A or so).

I have one of my 2D Mags running 2 x unprotected D cells and the 3853H - this one is brighter. But with unprotected cells (IMR cells or unprotected Li-ion) then you have to be careful to not run them flat, I end up using 1/2 to 2/3 of their charge then swapping batteries and recharging the partly flat ones. However the -H bulbs ARE noticeably brighter.

Overall I really like the -L bulbs for general use and the -H for 'wow!' factor. The -L bulbs are bright enough for 95%+ of what you need a torch for. I have Maglites 2D, 3D, 4D & 6D and I can tell you that for their size and weight they are all pathetic when standard - my 1 x AA sized LED torch is brighter than the 6D! My 6D now has an output in keeping with the size of the thing thanks to a 3854-H bulb (running 6 x 4000mAh NiCd cells). None of my Maglites are using standard bulbs!

ROP builds are easy and the 3854-L & 3853-H are great for running from 2 x Li-ion fresh off the charger with no .
All you need to do is:
Swap batteries to Li-ion (just 2 cells for these bulbs)
Swap bulb
-now working!
swap reflector & lens (very easy and not very expensive)
Done!

The only things I don't use these for are:
- EDC - too big to fit into my jeans pocket.
- Low level output - I use multimode LED lights for a low level light, the ROP builds are for when you want plenty of light.


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 25, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> I have 3 of the Mag 2D torches and currently have all of them using ROP bulbs. The 3854L is probably the best for general use - I get 2 hours run time from 2 x D cell Li-ion (www.kaidomain.com). This is a great torch to grab (I have one in easy grabbing range right now) for any thing you need around the home. I also take it with me when going camping. It has good brightness and colour as well as good run time - great for general use. The 3854L works fine from the Kaidomain protected D cells (the protection circuit limits the maximum amps to about 3.5A or so).
> 
> I have one of my 2D Mags running 2 x unprotected D cells and the 3853H - this one is brighter. But with unprotected cells (IMR cells or unprotected Li-ion) then you have to be careful to not run them flat, I end up using 1/2 to 2/3 of their charge then swapping batteries and recharging the partly flat ones. However the -H bulbs ARE noticeably brighter.
> 
> ...



KiwiMark-

That is one of the best descriptions of ROP use I have ever seen. While you are using D-cell mags I will be using our C-mags to duplicate your ROP's in C-cell mags. I have just three, a 2xC, 3xC, 4xC all with borofloats, KD's reflectors, and two of them with FM's adaptors. Still trying to buy the bulbs from a local supplier of ROP bulbs here in Pelican Town.

Primarily interested in the 3853H as it will tolerate the new AW 26500's on the way here. Might work out to be a good work light, the ROP.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 25, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> Primarily interested in the 3853H as it will tolerate the new AW 26500's on the way here. Might work out to be a good work light, the ROP.



That's a good bulb - plenty bright and during Lux Luthors testing it didn't flash until 9.9V so the bulb should last quite well running from 2 x IMR 26500 cells. The 3854H would be even brighter, but it flashes at 8.6V and 2 fresh Li-ion cells are 8.4V, it would work OK from 2 x IMR 26500 cells - but for how long before .

If no one locally stocks the bulbs then just do what I did and buy them from here:
http://www.batterystation.com/flashlight_lamps.htm


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 25, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> That's a good bulb - plenty bright and during Lux Luthors testing it didn't flash until 9.9V so the bulb should last quite well running from 2 x IMR 26500 cells. The *3854H would be even brighter, but it flashes at 8.6V and 2 fresh Li-ion cells are 8.4V, it would work OK from 2 x IMR 26500 cells - but for how long before .*
> 
> If no one locally stocks the bulbs then just do what I did and buy them from here:
> http://www.batterystation.com/flashlight_lamps.htm



Have you had experience with IMR26500's and the 3854H? Did you pop a few before going to the 3853H? The thing I have found is that even after running a 1166 for a few minutes to take the batteries down from their peak v. plain li-ions poofed my only 1185 after switching out the 1166. Very bright for a moment or two..


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## KiwiMark (Jul 25, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> Have you had experience with IMR26500's and the 3854H? Did you pop a few before going to the 3853H? The thing I have found is that even after running a 1166 for a few minutes to take the batteries down from their peak v. plain li-ions poofed my only 1185 after switching out the 1166. Very bright for a moment or two..



Generally the 3854H will work fine even from IMR cells, but I always check here: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=179748 from that page: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/3854-HROP.jpg
You can see the point that the bulbs failed and you have to expect some bulbs to flash a bit lower or higher so some 3854H bulbs would flash on the first try and others would be OK. But running a bulb at close to the limit will definitely lead to a short lifetime for it. I had one 3854H bulb flash the first time I tried it from 2 x D Li-ions (which like the IMR cells will hold their voltage under load fairly well).

When you look here: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/3853-H.jpg you can see that the 3853H bulb can take 2 fresh Li-ion cells of any chemistry with plenty of tolerance. Not being driven to the limit would mean you should get many hours of life from one of these bulbs. This would make it much better for general usage than a bulb that could die at any minute.

At the moment the only bulb that I am running from IMR26500 cells is my Osram 64458 running from 5 x 26500 cells in a Maglite 4D torch. The run time isn't so great, but the brightness is pretty good (around 200W using cells fresh off the charger). It gets newspaper burning pretty quickly too. But I prefer my ROP low for everyday use - 2hr run time and more than enough light for most tasks.


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 26, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> Generally the 3854H will work fine even from IMR cells, but I always check here: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=179748 from that page: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/3854-HROP.jpg
> You can see the point that the bulbs failed and you have to expect some bulbs to flash a bit lower or higher so some 3854H bulbs would flash on the first try and others would be OK. But running a bulb at close to the limit will definitely lead to a short lifetime for it. I had one 3854H bulb flash the first time I tried it from 2 x D Li-ions (which like the IMR cells will hold their voltage under load fairly well).



I need lights for different uses- how about you? You state you use Rop-L for everyday use for long runtime and sufficient light output, and have an Osram 458x5IMR's for other use.. fun? lol... It must be a rocker..



> When you look here: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/3853-H.jpg you can see that the 3853H bulb can take 2 fresh Li-ion cells of any chemistry with plenty of tolerance. Not being driven to the limit would mean you should get many hours of life from one of these bulbs. This would make it much better for general usage than a bulb that could die at any minute.



I am looking forward to trying out the potted 3853H and the L for work purposes. It has to compete at least with the 5761 which is arriving any day now.



> At the moment the only bulb that I am running from IMR26500 cells is my Osram 64458 running from 5 x 26500 cells in a Maglite 4D torch. The run time isn't so great, but the brightness is pretty good (around 200W using cells fresh off the charger). It gets newspaper burning pretty quickly too. But I prefer my ROP low for everyday use - 2hr run time and more than enough light for most tasks.



I have been using my 1166 with 3xli-ions and it is adequate for work, and as it is underdriven is reliable, and reaches out about 100 yards or a bit more. Will try to find a better reflector match as well. Hoping to increase this out to 150 yards with 40 minutes of runtime or better. First try will be just changing up to 1166 and 3xIMR's, and the 3853H with 2xIMR's. Other combos to follow including working with 5761, 1331, 1111, etc. 

I have read little of Osrams. Can you recommend a couple of good Osram bulbs that will work with 4xIMR's for 40 minutes plus of runtime and bright?


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## KiwiMark (Jul 27, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> I need lights for different uses- how about you? You state you use Rop-L for everyday use for long runtime and sufficient light output, and have an Osram 458x5IMR's for other use.. fun? lol... It must be a rocker..



Pretty much just fun & showing off - the run time is way too short for it to be a practical light for anything. It can be used as a personal heater, but if I get it too close to dark coloured clothing it is very easy to get smoke wisping off.




My3KidsDad! said:


> I am looking forward to trying out the potted 3853H and the L for work purposes. It has to compete at least with the 5761 which is arriving any day now.



Good luck they should be useful and bright - the H bulb is nice & bright and the L bulb only draws 1.6A. I like the L bulb, but Lux's testing shows that it blows at a fairly low voltage - once I  a couple of these I will probably end up just sticking with the 3854L for my low bulb. But I will have the couple of H bulbs I bought which are pretty good to use.




My3KidsDad! said:


> I have read little of Osrams. Can you recommend a couple of good Osram bulbs that will work with 4xIMR's for 40 minutes plus of runtime and bright?



Nope - the lowest bulbs I have tried of theirs are 6V 35W which draw about 7A and wouldn't run for 40+ minutes. This one http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/64432-IRC-35W.jpg looks like your best bet - but I have no experience with them. At around 3.5A they should run for around 35 minutes from IMR 26500 cells so that isn't too far off. From 4 x 32600 cells in a Maglite 4D they would run for over 1 hour - but then you have a bigger and heavier torch. Maybe someone that has used the Osram 64432 bulbs could give an opinion?


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 29, 2009)

KiwiMark- Gotta keep an eye on those "amp" columns in LUxLuthor's spreadsheets. Important tip. And you have to buy a special adaptor for the 6.35mm pins on Osrams too, right? That would be Kiu's high temp adaptor I think.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 29, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> And you have to buy a special adaptor for the 6.35mm pins on Osrams too, right? That would be Kiu's high temp adaptor I think.



I've got a couple of AW's soft start multi level switches, they come with Kiu's high temp adaptor and work well for the Osram bulbs. I like the AW switches and the soft start could definitely reduce the amount of blown bulbs.


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 30, 2009)

KiwiMark- So AW put Kiu's heat sink adaptor into his soft start. Hmm, very smart. Must order, must order.. Actually have been thinking AW's soft starter would be good with all my mag mods. Just ordered rop 3853 and 3854 H & L's (all 4) and will be trying them out too with appropriate batteries. Much to try in the near future.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 30, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> Just ordered rop 3853 and 3854 H & L's (all 4) and will be trying them out too with appropriate batteries. Much to try in the near future.



I have 4 of the Mag 2D torches now: 3853L, 3853H, 3854L & 3854H. I have enough batteries to have them all working at once. They all have glass lenses, aluminium reflectors and short springs. The H bulbs are matched with unprotected Li-ion cells and the L bulbs are matched with protected Li-ion cells. All cells are D sized. Then I have my 3D, 4D, 6D & Elephant II with 3" head. So much fun to be had with incans. lovecpf


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 30, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> *I have 4 of the Mag 2D torches now: 3853L, 3853H, 3854L & 3854H. * I have enough batteries to have them all working at once. They all have glass lenses, aluminium reflectors and short springs. The H bulbs are matched with unprotected Li-ion cells and the L bulbs are matched with protected Li-ion cells. All cells are D sized. Then I have my 3D, 4D, 6D & Elephant II with 3" head. So much fun to be had with incans. lovecpf


Since you have all four running and use at will... If you could rate your rops' how would you do it?

Best runtime;
brightest; 
least likely to poof; 
most effective in everyday use;
most convenient? 

Anything missed? Also, your D cells are from KD?


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## KiwiMark (Jul 30, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> Since you have all four running and use at will... If you could rate your rops' how would you do it?
> 
> Best runtime;
> brightest;
> ...



All my D cells are from KD - I haven't come across D Li-ion cells anywhere else.

Best runtime; 3853L (1.6A) then 3854L (2A)
brightest; 3854H
least likely to poof; 3854L & 3853H
most effective in everyday use; 3854L
most convenient? 3854L

I like the better run time of the 3853L but it is more likely to  and have a shorter life span than the 3854L. The 3854L is a little brighter and should have a much better bulb life - 2A isn't that much more than 1.6A so the run time from the 3854L is still pretty good.

I like the brightness of the 3854H, but it is more likely to  and have shorter life span than the 3853H. The 3853H is not quite as bright (but is still pretty bright at over 24W), but has a longer run time and should have a much better bulb life.

I can play a bit with the 3854H for the sheer brightness of it and use the 3853L for a nice bright torch with decent run time - but when I have blown a few of those and have plenty of the 3854L & 3853H bulbs left I wouldn't bother to buy either set of bulb to get more of those 2 bulbs. Then I would be left with 3854L bulbs for a nice output from 2A and the brighter 3853H bulb for more light from 3.5A - I'll be happy enough with that. I could always put a standard bulb in one of my Maglites and spend a minute comparing it to my others - that would make me feel good about my ROPs, even the standard bulb in my 6D is rather pathetic compared to the lowest ROP.


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 30, 2009)

Calling all noobs on incan forum.. see the above post for the best description of daily life with ROP's. KiwiMark thank you for the info I will be putting your experiences to use with my newly ordered Pelican bulbs. (Ordered AW's softstart today for my C mags with IMR's and various bulbs other than rop's.)

If I can go back just a bit, would you still get the 4D mag over the 5C mag for your Osram 458 workup, for the battery versatility of being able to use both your KD D cells and your C cells? or for another reason? I think the 5C is harder to find and more expensive than the 4D.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 31, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> Calling all noobs on incan forum.. see the above post for the best description of daily life with ROP's. KiwiMark thank you for the info I will be putting your experiences to use with my newly ordered Pelican bulbs. (Ordered AW's softstart today for my C mags with IMR's and various bulbs other than rop's.)
> 
> If I can go back just a bit, would you still get the 4D mag over the 5C mag for your Osram 458 workup, for the battery versatility of being able to use both your KD D cells and your C cells? or for another reason? I think the 5C is harder to find and more expensive than the 4D.



I think that I prefer the 4D for possible future applications. I have owned that 4D for about 10 years though, so it wasn't like I bought a new torch to use for that hotwire. I have never been a huge fan of the C sized cells and I do like the extra run time from the D cells. I would really love to see some IMR D cells or 1/2 D cells - less wasted space inside the torch body.


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## My3kidsfather (Jul 31, 2009)

KiwiMark- That's interesting you mention 1/2 D cells. What length would you need to make a D-diameter battery to get, say, 5 of these cells in a 4D mag? I don't know what the length of a D cell is and I do not own a D cell mag. The capacity of these shortened cells should still be considerable and perhaps allow a really useful flashlight in an Osram 458 x 5 IMR shortened-D cells. 

I wonder whether AW has considered a shortened-D?


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## KiwiMark (Jul 31, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> KiwiMark- That's interesting you mention 1/2 D cells. What length would you need to make a D-diameter battery to get, say, 5 of these cells in a 4D mag? I don't know what the length of a D cell is and I do not own a D cell mag. The capacity of these shortened cells should still be considerable and perhaps allow a really useful flashlight in an Osram 458 x 5 IMR shortened-D cells.
> 
> I wonder whether AW has considered a shortened-D?



I think that 1/2 D cells would be short enough to fit 5 in a 3D (or maybe 3.5D)

AW may have had the idea of IMR 1/2 D cells suggested to him by someone.


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## Chodes (Jul 31, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> KiwiMark- That's interesting you mention 1/2 D cells. What length would you need to make a D-diameter battery to get, say, 5 of these cells in a 4D mag? I don't know what the length of a D cell is and I do not own a D cell mag. The capacity of these shortened cells should still be considerable and perhaps allow a really useful flashlight in an Osram 458 x 5 IMR shortened-D cells.
> 
> I wonder whether AW has considered a shortened-D?



I would not mind some 1/2Ds.
Normal D cell is 60mm long. Therefore 32500 name.
1/D is 36mm long.

Here's where you lose some of the advantage:
C size cells can utilize an extra 35mm approx of the Mag tube.
The C size cells fit inside the tailcap so a short spring can be used. (Mag C springs are great for this)
With 1/D cells , you need to consider the standard D size fitment - 
ie 2 D mag fits 2 x 60mm cells, You have 120mm to fit 1/2D Cells.
You have about 155mm to fit C size cells.

Regarding the standard D length - you can exceed the 120mm for a 2D by about 3mm using a shortened D spring. Any longer and the tailcap fouls the rear of the cell and you can't tighten the tailcap.

So you can fit 3 x 1/2D cells in a 2D Mag. (120mm / 36mm = 3.333)
You will have about 10mm space left and need a spacer.

*5 x 1/2D is a perfect fit for a 3D.*
5 x 36 = 180mm! As long as the 1/Ds are not a little longer than spec - 36.5 would be about the limit.

3 x IMR26500s fit in a 2D. Very short C spring. 
4 x IMR26500s fit in a 3D. Very short D spring or C spring with small spacer.
5 x IMR26500 fit in a 4D with a fair bit of length wasted. 3.5D would be perfect.

4D not as good for 1/2D - 6 cells with wasted space.

5D : 6 IMR26500 with lots of wasted space , 8 x 1/2D with only 10mm wasted space.

With any of the "wasted space" configurations , gives you the option to carry spare bulbs in the tailcap.


FYI - for 18650s , I have found you can go 1 for 1 up to to 5D.

ie 2D/3D/4D/5D take 2/3/4/5 18650s end to end , 6 will not fit in a 6D.
Handy for testing various configurations before commiting to bored hosts and battery holders.


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## My3kidsfather (Aug 2, 2009)

Thanks Chodes and KiwiMark- I actually had not heard of the 1/2 D cells. 5 of them in a 3D mag would be handy.. And not knowing what capacities the 1/2 D's have, you got me wondering. What would we end up with if we looked at it from a perspective of purpose design? If we consider two criteria: greater capacity for longer runtimes than IMR C cells (not to mention voltages above 19v. that you like KiwiMark) with Osram's 458 bulb and put 5 of these D-diameter batteries in a shorter tube, like 5 shorter D's of 500mm length in a 4D mag? Have I missed something you think is important?

Kiwi I know you have experience with 458's and batteries in general. Would you guys be interested in a D-diameter IMR battery of 500mm length in your 4D mags? Could you expect longer runtime/greater amps available than with 5 C-cell IMR's? I only have to glance at the titles in many threads in incan forum today to see the increasing interest in these ~6000 lumen 458 powered Socket Suckers.


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## Mjolnir (Aug 2, 2009)

Kiwimark, how would you compare the brightness of the 3854L to that of the 3853H? I am planning on getting 2 4000 Mah IMR 26650 cells from batteryspace, which should fit well in my 2D maglite, which already has a "custom" spring made to fit 18650s. However, I will probably also have to get a 3853 high, as 2 IMRs fresh off the charger will probably blow a 3854H. How different are the 3854H and 3853H? With IMRs, the 3853H should be even brighter than with D LiCo cells, which you say you are running yours with.


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## KiwiMark (Aug 2, 2009)

My3KidsDad! said:


> Kiwi I know you have experience with 458's and batteries in general. Would you guys be interested in a D-diameter IMR battery of 500mm length in your 4D mags?



I would love anything between 40 & 50mm with the standard 32mm diameter. At the moment I don't have as much battery inside the 4D as there is room for because I only have 26mm diameter cells instead of 32mm diameter. More battery in the same space would give more voltage or more capacity or a mixture of both. But I don't think AW has any immediate plans to release such cells.


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## KiwiMark (Aug 2, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> Kiwimark, how would you compare the brightness of the 3854L to that of the 3853H? I am planning on getting 2 4000 Mah IMR 26650 cells from batteryspace, which should fit well in my 2D maglite, which already has a "custom" spring made to fit 18650s. However, I will probably also have to get a 3853 high, as 2 IMRs fresh off the charger will probably blow a 3854H. How different are the 3854H and 3853H? With IMRs, the 3853H should be even brighter than with D LiCo cells, which you say you are running yours with.



I don't think the different bulbs are hugely different in their efficiency, so the output is roughly proportional to the amperage draw. This means you have to sacrifice run time for brightness or vice versa. My bulbs draw approximately (Lux has fugures here: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=179748) at 7.5V:
3853L - 1.5A - 31Lux
3854L - 2.0A - 31 Lux (this is what Lux Luthor lists - but visually I can see that this bulb is noticeably brighter than the 3853L)
3853H - 3.5A - 60 Lux
3854H - 4.5A - 96 Lux
They all look fairly bright, but when you compare side by side you can see the difference. The 3854L is a nice balance of brightness & run time. The 3853H is visibly brighter, but has a noticeably shorter run time. The middle 2 on my list have a much greater tolerances for overdriving - so you get much better bulb life. The 3854H measures 96 Lux and that is brighter than 60 Lux but to the human eye 96 Lux is no where near 50% brighter than 60 Lux just as 60 Lux is no where near twice as bright as 31 Lux. When you first turn on the light with fresh batteries you will get more than 7.5V, but after a couple of minutes the voltage will settle to somewhere near the nominal 3.7V per cell, hence 7.5V from 2 cells is about a typical amount. Of course the fresh cells at first power up of a cold bulb can give around 8.4V and that is the danger time for your 3853L & 3854H bulbs because that could well be enough to  the bulb.

I would guess that the IMR cells would be a similar voltage under these loads to my D cells. The KD D cells have over 4000mAh (they claim about 5000) so they have a lot of capacity. With any load under 5A the voltage wont sag much. IMR cells have a large current capacity and their voltage doesn't sag much under a load as high as 3C - this gives them similar performance to the much higher capacity D cells, just not the same amount of run time. Either way cells that can handle over 9V will survive much longer than those that  at 8.5V or less.


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## My3kidsfather (Aug 6, 2009)

Got bulbs today. Rop 3854 and 3853's, high and lows. Also received WA 1274's, 5761's. Waiting for the new soft-start for the 5761's before trying them out with 2xIMR's.

In the mean time worked on the ROP potted bulbs and the 1274 bulbs using the G4 bi-pin adaptor. With the WA 1166 with 3xIMR26500's as comparison light, (only have one 2C Mag at the moment) tried out the Pelican 3853H first- nice light with the 2xIMR's. Then swapped out the potted bulb for one of the 1274's and compared it with the 1166. Both seemed about the same in whiteness and brightness. I see what you all have been saying about ROP and the various 2x and 3x IMR configs- about the same light with different runtimes. Will be trying them all at work with the four different reflectors here for best combo for work purpose. Decided to buy another 2C Mag for the 3854L, and a 2D Mag for the 3854H with 2x Li-ion 26650's and will try them out in the near future. That 3854L sounds like a great knock around lite for work and home.

I have a small jar of heat sink compound I wondered whether might make a difference in making contact between the potted bulb 3853H and the Mag bulb holder/switch, allowing more reliability in continuous 5-10 minutes-at-a-time use at work. Anyone tried compound this way?

I think it's time to start a new thead about 4x and 5x IMR hotwires. Not for work this would be for fun and the next step in brightness. Didn't take long, eh? lol.


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