# DURACELL vs ENELOOP



## SaVaGe (Feb 14, 2008)

I know that the Sanyo Eneloop are good for my Fenix L1,L2 & LOD Q5's
(Q4 FOR THE LOD). How about the new DURACELL NiMh rechargables at 2650 mAh? because my Eneloops are only 2000 mAh. Is there a difference? I know that they are same with the eneloops 1.5V each.

The reason is, just incase eneloops are hard to find the DURACELL 2650 mAh are widely available.


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## Lighthouse one (Feb 14, 2008)

THis will probably get bumped to the battery section, but Duracell has the long lasting Nimh batteries now too. I just saw them at Wal mart. The regular 2650 Duracells lose power quickly when just sitting idle ( after they are ...say over 6 months old?) Eneloops lose very little...so the 2000ma eneloops often end up lasting longer than the 2650 Duracells- unless you use them up quickly. Both are 1.2 volt....only alkalines are 1.5 volt.


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## JamisonM (Feb 14, 2008)

Yep, this belongs in the flashlight electronics - batteries included section.
I've had high capacity NiMH batteries loose their charge within a week. I'd charge them and come back a week later and they would be dead. With the LSD NiMH batteries I haven't had this problem. In fact, I've gradually replaced all my rechargable AA's with LSD cells. My favorites are the rayovac hybrids. They're cheaper then both the enloops and duracell precharged cells and still perform great. Silverfox did a self discharge study of them and eneloops. Here's the link. Speaking of the duracell pre-charged cells, from what I've read about them; they just eneloops with a different wrapper. With a little searching, you'll find a few threads around here talking about it.


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## LukeA (Feb 14, 2008)

The duracell charger charges cells in 15 min., right? That's really high current (4C), and not especially good for them. I use Eneloops and Rayovac Hybrids with a LaCrosse charger. If you are a Costco member, stop by and pick up a few sets of Eneloops. Each set has 8AAs, 4AAA, a not-bad charger, and 1AA-C and 1AA-D adapters for $27. Great deal.

NiMH cells are rated 1.2V, but they realistically run at 1.4V for much of their charge.


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## 2xTrinity (Feb 15, 2008)

Most of the very high capacity NiMH cells have very fast self dicscharge. That's one of the tradeoffs of cramming more capacity into a tiny package. You get more cpacity but only if you use it immediately, a significant amount of the charge can be gone in as short as week in some caes. The eneloop traded off a small amount of initial capacity for the ability to keep charge sitting on a shelf for al ong time. That means they're practical to use for almost everything, a very nice trait. Also, while many brands,especaillt ones with high capacity, fall dramatically short of their posted mAh capacity even hot of the charger, with the Eneloops you can expect to actually get nearly 2000mAh.



> NiMH cells are rated 1.2V, but they realistically run at 1.4V for much of their charge.



And realistically, in high drain applications like bright LED lights, alkalines actualy run lower voltage under load than NiMH almost their entire runtime. 1.5 is the initial voltage of alkaline, 1.2 is the average loaded voltage of NiMH. The fact they're reported inconsistently leads many to believe NiMH won't work because of low voltage -- not a problem.


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## SaVaGe (Feb 15, 2008)

So I think, its time for me to go back to Costco to buy a second set of Sanyo Eneloops! Thanks guys:thumbsup:


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## f22shift (Feb 15, 2008)

it depends on your charging habits. the eneloops are definitely going to have more capacity if you leave batteries sitting around for weeks. if you are the type of person who remembers to charge before a task, you will get more runtime with the higher capacity ones.

from my experience, an lod would go about 45 min on high with the 800 mah eneloops. on a 1000mah duracell, it would go about an hr. for me, i like to charge my batteries before a task so the higher capacities benefit me. i don't have to change batteries often.

another experience i had with the 2650mah duracells is that they would vent if you overdischarge them. so on flashlights like the l2d where it's has a good waterproof seal, it would end up with a bloated rubber cap as the gas has no where to go.


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## EssLight (Feb 15, 2008)

I have a set of Duracell 2650s that I bought over a year ago, and they have worked fine for me. I have put them through 10 charge cycles, and they still have excellent charge retention. I have been careful not to overcharge or overdischarge them. Most of the charging has been with a Titanium TG2800 charger.

If I had a device that would sit around for months before I would use it, and I didn't want to worry about checking the charge status, then Eneloops (or any other LSD cell) would be useful.

The biggest advantage of Eneloops, they maintain voltage under high loads, so they work well in hotwired lights.

As far as rated capacity, 2650 vs 2000 mAh, in real world applications, you won't see much difference. If you grab the Duracells hot off the charger, and run them at a low to moderate drain, yes, you will see a bit more capacity than the Eneloops. But let them sit for a month, and your effective usage time will probably be about the same.


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## DavidD (Feb 16, 2008)

I too have had good luck with Duracell 2650s. But then again, I haven't had near the bad luck that others have with any batteries. I did kill a lot of Energizers using a 30 minute (without cooling fan) charger. My Energizer 2500s that were solely used with the 15 minute (with cooling fan) charger, also died premature deaths (loss of number of cycles) but never had the extremely rapid self-discharge. They retained their charge for 2-3 months easily, even right before the charger would blink at them.

My Duracell 2650's were used early in their life with the 15 minute, fan-cooled charger, and then more recently with the two Eneloop chargers (4 indep. w/ slide cover; 2 indep quick) I have charged 2650's, Hybrids and Eneloops and then did runtimes with them noting their time-till-dim durations. Recharging them and setting them aside for 6 months. I then completed runtimes on them after 6 months. None of them seemed to lose much at all. Even the 2650's were pretty much on par with the Eneloops. The 2650's started out with runtimes about 30% greater than the Eneloops, and ended up with runtimes (6 months later) with runtimes about 30% greater than Eneloops. The Hybrids faired Okay, but were actually outdone by the 2650's. I basically use Eneloops and Duracell 2650's and like them both.

Obviously, YMMV.


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## Tidra (Feb 16, 2008)

In my Mag 2D 1xSSC P4 U-bin @ 700mA with this driver
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3150

I try 2xD Duracel alkalines and man o man they suck, the voltage drops from 3V under 2V in second,...

The rabbits on the commercials must have really lo current motors inside to last forever,... 


Iztok


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## Nubo (Feb 17, 2008)

It's unfortunate that the battery companies make such a big deal out of the notion of "pre-charged" batteries. At the expense of educating the consumer about the advantages of limited self-discharge, imo. I don't understand this approach. The pre-charge is of such little consequence when you consider the whole point of rechargeable batteries is to RECHARGE them. Why then assume that the consumer is so eager to avoid that FIRST charge?


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## 2xTrinity (Feb 17, 2008)

Nubo said:


> It's unfortunate that the battery companies make such a big deal out of the notion of "pre-charged" batteries. At the expense of educating the consumer about the advantages of limited self-discharge, imo. I don't understand this approach. The pre-charge is of such little consequence when you consider the whole point of rechargeable batteries is to RECHARGE them. Why then assume that the consumer is so eager to avoid that FIRST charge?


I guess the idea is, if they are out and about and need to load up cells in their camera immediately, they can buy a package, use them once, then recharge them later. That is a nice benefit, but it's trivial in comparison to the fact that they are low self-discharge.

Now, in the case of the eneloop pack that was on sale at costco for a while, while they still used the title "precharged", if you actaully looked at the box at all, the first thing the shopper would see is a comparison "85% after 1 yr VS 0% after 1 yr" between Eneloops, and standard NiMH. I think they're just worried that many people might be scared off by the title "Low Self-Discharge NiMH" as opposed to "Pre-Charged!"


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## abvidledUK (Feb 17, 2008)

The pre-charged are also only pre-charged to around 80%, or less.


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## coppertrail (Feb 17, 2008)

Over the past several months, I've changed to eneloops in all my AA and AAA lights and have been very happy with performance.


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## degarb (Nov 18, 2008)

Where can you buy Duracell 2650's? I have owned mine (Oh about 20 something or more) for over a year and am extremely happy with them, except would like to see the 3 amp hour barrier broken.

Curious and eager to be thrashed by the c9000 crowd. But here is the regime: used them 3 to 12 hours several times a week; 15 minute charger (as I use capacity of 12 batteries a day for me alone) but removed most insulation on cell (careful to replace on lights that need the vinyl.) and put the 15 minute charger on top of an ice pack. I believe I had a few cells develop high resistance before doing this Ice cooling, but none since. I have one 8 bay rayovac charger by bed, but don't trust the voltage shut off and think it might kill innocent batteries.


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## UnknownVT (Nov 19, 2008)

Duracell Pre-Charged that are made in Japan with white top surrounding the +ve button - are confirmed rebadged eneloops - nicknamed "Dura-Loop".

see Duracell Pre-Charged Rechargeables - Buyer Advisory ...

White top surrounds -










notice the Duracell shoulder is slightly lower and the +ve button slightly longer than my earlier/older eneloop - dated 06-10.

The DuraLoops are also similarly dated (? - embossed on the clear wrapping, but not in the same format) as "7005"

(note: later eneloops - from about 11/2006 on - called "eneloop-R" (link) in other parts of the world - due to the addition of the "R" - registered trademark sign on the end of the name, are lower shouldered with longer +ve buttons)

This week (thru Sat Nov/22) Walgreens has Duracell Pre-Charged AA or AAA 4pks on Sale for $9.99. There also may still a few packs with the instant $2 off coupon attached - which makes them $7.99 for 4.


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## Mr Happy (Nov 19, 2008)

And Hybriloops of course...don't forget the Hybriloops


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## Bones (Nov 19, 2008)

Or the Sony CycleEnergy Blue (Blu-i-loops?):


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## Bones (Nov 19, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> ...
> The DuraLoops are also similarly dated (? - embossed on the clear wrapping, but not in the same format) as "7005"
> ...



I believe the 'Duraloop' date code embossed along the side of the cell and stamped on the package backer can be interpreted thusly:

The first character, consisting of a number from 0 to 9, represents the year of manufacture.

The second character, consisting of a letter from A to L, represents the month.

The third and fourth characters, consisting of two numbers from 0 to 31, represents the day.

The fifth and sixth characters, consisting of two letters, may represent a batch code.

For example, the date code 7K07HT represents 2007 November 07 (7=Year, K=Month, 07=Day, HT=?).

I've noticed the date code on the package is usually more recent than the date code on the cells, but only by a few months.

I was unable to locate a date code on the Duracell pre-charged cells made in China which are not believed to be re-badged Eneloops.


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## KD5XB (Nov 19, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> This week (thru Sat Nov/22) Walgreens has Duracell Pre-Charged AA or AAA 4pks on Sale for $9.99. There also may still a few packs with the instant $2 off coupon attached - which makes them $7.99 for 4.



Am I correct that these are 2000 mah capacity?


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## UnknownVT (Nov 19, 2008)

KD5XB said:


> Am I correct that these are 2000 mah capacity?


 
Yes, the AA batteries are rated 2000mAh.

The AAA batteries are 800mAh.

Remember I am talking about the "DuraLoops" - made in Japan versions with the white top surrounding the +ve button - as show in my pics.


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## KD5XB (Nov 19, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> Remember I am talking about the "DuraLoops" - made in Japan versions with the white top surrounding the +ve button - as show in my pics.



Rgr rgr! I just ran down to Walgreen's and bought a package of 4 AA's -- they will replace some older junk AA's that are starting to flake out in my charger.

Thanks for the tip!
Earl


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## Art (Nov 19, 2008)

I actually own the duracells AAA 1000mah and some cheap 1000mah.... tested both after charge at 1,415v... after 1week with no use the duracells where ate 1,385v and the cheap ones ate 1,350v...
Never had eneloops here to test... will probably order them from overseas.

Regards,


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## UnknownVT (Nov 19, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> The DuraLoops are also similarly dated (? - embossed on the clear wrapping, but not in the same format) as "7005"


 


Bones said:


> I believe the 'Duraloop' date code embossed along the side of the cell and stamped on the package backer can be interpreted thusly:
> For example, the date code 7K07HT represents 2007 November 07 (7=Year, K=Month, 07=Day, HT=?).
> I've noticed the date code on the package is usually more recent than the date code on the cells, but only by a few months.


 
Many thanks for that Bones.

In the light of that I re-examined the code on the spine of my "DuraLoop" - which is real hard to read - as it is light embossing on the clear plastic wrapper against black - however I used a magnifying glass this time, and it is -

"7*G*05 - IN" - so that's a "G" and not a 0 - 
that makes them from 2007, G=7=July, 05

The packaging says "7I05J2" - 2007, I=9=Sept, 05.

another AA set 
Spine = 7H07 - TS - 2007, H=8=Aug, 07
Pack = 7J15J3 - 2007, J=10=Oct, 15

and a set of AAA -
spine = 7G 04 - IO - 2007, G=7=July, 04
pack = 7J15J3 - 2007, J=10=Oct, 15

both the latter sets were just purchased from Walgreens for $7.99 (so probably older stock with the $2 instant coupon attached)


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## KD5XB (Nov 21, 2008)

Now for the $64 question -- (wow, that's a blast form the past!!!) -- do I need to run a break-in cycle with my new Duraloops on my also-new MH-C9000? Or simply start using them?

Thanks,
Earl


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## Bones (Nov 21, 2008)

KD5XB said:


> ...
> do I need to run a break-in cycle with my new Duraloops on my also-new MH-C9000? Or simply start using them?
> ...



In order to maximize their performance and longevity, I have made it a habit to run 3 back-to-back forming charges on my Eneloops (or Duraloops) before putting them into service.

Notwithstanding their apparent stability, it seems inevitable that some separation and/or settling of the chemicals will have taken place in the months or even years since they were built.

While the forming charge may be less important when used in lower drain devices, it seems much more critical when they're used in devices that require a higher drain.

As I understand it, if there is chemical separation and/or settling, then hot spots could form in the dryer areas at higher drain rates, causing permanent damage to the cell.

Besides, what harm can it do, especially when you have several hundred cycles to play with?



SilverFox said:


> ...
> The "forming" charge refers to a slow charge that is designed to equalize the electrolyte within the cell, and it also balances the cells within a battery pack. It also allows the separator to "soak up" the electrolyte so it can function to its maximum extent.
> ...


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## KD5XB (Nov 21, 2008)

Unfortunately I don't have the time just now -- I'll have to hit the road about 24 hours from now, and a break-in cycle on the C9000 takes somewhere around 35-40 hours. To do three of them, I guess I'll have to wait until I have a week off! 

You ARE speaking of .1C charge for 16 hours, 2-hour rest, .2C discharge, 2-hour rest, .1C charge for 16 hours -- right?

Thanks!


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## Bones (Nov 21, 2008)

KD5XB said:


> ....
> You ARE speaking of .1C charge for 16 hours, 2-hour rest, .2C discharge, 2-hour rest, .1C charge for 16 hours -- right?
> ...



Not quite, I actually like to run two complete break-in cycles, each preceded by a .2C discharge:

- Discharge at .2C
- Break-in cycle.
- Discharge at .2C
- Break-in cycle.

I describe the routine as consisting of 3 break-in cycles because I consider the first discharge as preparatory to readying the cell for the first break-in cycle, and the last charge of the last break-in cycle as preparatory to readying the cell for use.

This follows my understanding that one full break-in cycle actually consists of the following:

- Charge for 16 hours at .1C
- 1 (or 2) hour rest period.
- Discharge at .2C to 1.0 volts.

I suppose the routine could just as easily be described as 4 break-in cycles providing the first cycle is always preceded by a .2C discharge.


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## Mr Happy (Nov 21, 2008)

I think it's fair to say that although a break in cycle or two is ideal for maximum performance, the cells are pre-charged and ready to use, so if you have a time constraint and a need to use the cells it is quite acceptable to just go ahead and use them.


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## KD5XB (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks for that -- for now I'll just keep the old "flakey" cells in use -- they're at about 65% capacity, so about ready to die, but they go in a GPS that usually has external power on it, so not a problem.

Earl


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## InHisName (Jan 15, 2010)

Bones said:


> I believe the 'Duraloop' date code embossed along the side of the cell and stamped on the package backer can be interpreted thusly:
> 
> The first character, consisting of a number from 0 to 9, represents the year of manufacture.
> 
> ...


 I found this after much searching to decode my dates on Duraloops. 9|01 E4 --> Based on this must be 2009, |=I=September 10=10th of month. 

Now has there been any new info to interpret the last 2 chars ? E4 for me


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