# ZebraLight H502 XM-L



## JA(me)S

"There will be an H502 (XM-L, <2.9"), slated for release in Q4 this year. The H50 has a negative meniscus lens. The H501 uses a positive meniscus lens. Both are made of polycarbonate. The H502 will use a plano-convex lens (optical grade glass, tempered, AR coated on both sides). We'll have a link to a google docs sheet in 1 or 2 days for all current and upcoming models."

From here.

- Jas.


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## turboBB

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Thx for the heads-up! I hope it keeps the H501's beam profile and be brighter/more efficient (support for 14500 would be nice too).


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Not a reflectored light, so it sounds like Zebralight has decided to keep a couple of true floods in the lineup. Good news.

The plano convex lens may (?) mean that the lens will be flat on the outside...I hope...no "bubble" lens hanging out to be scratched as in the H501, although it was well recessed. I liked the H50's almost flat lens best...although protection for it was virtually nonexistent if you took off the rubber hood.


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## Potato42

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I just saw this mentioned in that thread as well. Good news as I also am not a big fan of the newer spotty headlamps. I'll buy it when they have a warm or even better high CRI version.


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## HIDblue

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Also saw that ZL is going to offer the H302 in XM-L in Q1 2012 in a purely flood configuration.


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## ZebraLight

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Bolster said:


> Not a reflectored light, so it sounds like Zebralight has decided to keep a couple of true floods in the lineup. Good news.
> 
> The plano convex lens may (?) mean that the lens will be flat on the outside...I hope...no "bubble" lens hanging out to be scratched as in the H501, although it was well recessed. I liked the H50's almost flat lens best...although protection for it was virtually nonexistent if you took off the rubber hood.


 
Flat on the inside. The H502 lens is made of optical grade glass, tempered and recessed. The lens in the H501 is made of polycarbonate, prone to scratch.


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



HIDblue said:


> Also saw that ZL is going to offer the H302 in XM-L in Q1 2012 in a purely flood configuration.



WOW! Sounds like ZL is listening to us pure flood enthusiasts after all! And here I was thinking the H501 would be the last pure flood from ZL...ha!

The recessed glass lens sounds like a winner.


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## monkeyboy

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I hope they bring back the simpler UI of the old models and get rid of flashing modes. I don't like any of this nonsense with mode 1 and mode 2 and mode 55 and click click press hold double click triple click do the chicken dance.


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



monkeyboy said:


> ...click click press hold double click triple click do the chicken dance.



Yes, but are you OK with the "Happy Happy Joy Joy" dance?

(Ren and Stimpy joke, for the uninitiated)


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I am - and the chicken dance is just sooo much fun!

- Jas.


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## tygger

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Excellent news. Way to go Zebralight! I will gladly retire my H501w and H501 for this beauty.


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

The H502's exterior dimensions, as compared to the H501, have grown slightly to allow for the demands/size of the X-ML:


 H502: 2.9" x .9"
 H501: 2.75" x .75"
 In terms of expected performance increase, this seems a worthwhile trade-off.

- Jas.


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

The girth given must be for the head of the light, not the battery tube. (If it were the battery tube that would be one fat little AA light.) Looking at the head of my H501 it mikes to .742. A .9 head will be significantly chunkier. And yes, I'll be happy with it if that's what's required. The length of the H501 is actualy 2.620 (on metal), and the lengthening to 2.9 will be negligible. Any guesstimates of what the performance increase will be?


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## srfreddy

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Bolster said:


> The girth given must be for the head of the light, not the battery tube. (If it were the battery tube that would be one fat little AA light.) Looking at the head of my H501 it mikes to .742. A .9 head will be significantly chunkier. And yes, I'll be happy with it if that's what's required. The length of the H501 is actualy 2.620 (on metal), and the lengthening to 2.9 will be negligible. Any guesstimates of what the performance increase will be?


 
I'm thinking it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect 220, 240 lumens, from higher circuit efficiency, higher optical efficiency, and a more efficient led than the 51s.


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## RedForest UK

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I think I heard or read somewhere that the new 1xAA XM-L offerings are to be 300 lumens, which is darned impressive.


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## srfreddy

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



RedForest UK said:


> I think I heard or read somewhere that the new 1xAA XM-L offerings are to be 300 lumens, which is darned impressive.


 
Then Zebralight is once again going to claim king of output for 1xAA...


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## ZebraLight

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



srfreddy said:


> I'm thinking it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect 220, 240 lumens, from higher circuit efficiency, higher optical efficiency, and a more efficient led than the 51s.


 
I don't have any output figures for the 502 yet but the output from the T5 protypes, which share the same new DC/DC driver, is WAY above the 220-240 range.

The 502 prototye looks like a short H51, about 2.9".


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## srfreddy

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



ZebraLight said:


> I don't have any output figures for the 502 yet but the output from the T5 protypes, which share the same new circuit, is WAY above the 220-240 range.
> 
> The 502 prototye looks like a short H51, about 2.9".


 
So is the T5 a new series of lights, with tailswitches? Please make angle head XML reflector lights....


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## CarpentryHero

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Wowsa, wasn't expectin the 502's. That's cool


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Great Scott! regarding the high end. That's a lot of light. Although I don't care so much about the high as I do about the midrange. 

I am just hoping for 30-60 lumens in the midrange with a long runtime. 

And no parabolic reflector.


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## Woods Walker

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I wonder what the low will be? 240 lumens on 1XAA? Wow, that's a bunch of light.


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## tygger

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Bolster said:


> Great Scott! regarding the high end. That's a lot of light. Although I don't care so much about the high as I do about the midrange.
> 
> I am just hoping for 30-60 lumens in the midrange with a long runtime.
> 
> And no parabolic reflector.


 

My thoughts exactly.


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Woods Walker said:


> I wonder what the low will be? 240 lumens on 1XAA? Wow, that's a bunch of light.


I speculate closer to 300 Lm. 

- Jas.

edit: oh, and down to around .1 Lm


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## tedh

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

CaseyTan, in another thread (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?314206-Zebralight-Newer-doesn-t-mean-better), posted a spreadsheet from Zebralight listing current and proposed lights. The T5 is listed as 300 lumens, and given that it will share a driver with the H502, the H502 should be similar output. So looks like Ja(me)s wins the prize. 

Ted


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## srfreddy

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Down to .1 lumens.....holy shizzle, might need an H502w...............


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## StandardBattery

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

The King is building a new castle on Headlamp Hill. It's nice that they are inviting everyone to visit.


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## FroggyTaco

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

H502w is my next headlamp!

I just returned a H51Fw because the beam was sad compared to my H501.


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## Woods Walker

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



JA(me)S said:


> I speculate closer to 300 Lm.
> 
> - Jas.
> 
> edit: oh, and down to around .1 Lm



Wow but we will have to see. That .1 Lm thing looks good. I hope they have a nice med setting that will run long. Too big of a jump between med and high on the H50-H501 but like them a bunch. Then again with settings it is hard to please everyone. The tint on the H501 cool LED was miles better than my H50 so despite my like of the w models if ZL stays picky with their tints aka no **** green or crazy blue a cool would be ok for me. I read these are going to be made in the USA. Is this true? If so a big plus as they could be fixed here should something should go wrong.


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## Gregozedobe

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



monkeyboy said:


> I hope they bring back the simpler UI of the old models and get rid of flashing modes. I don't like any of this nonsense with mode 1 and mode 2 and mode 55 and click click press hold double click triple click do the chicken dance.



I quite like the choice of 6 output levels you get with the latest (multi-level ie H1/H2, M1/M2 and L1/L2) UIs. You only have to set once and forget. Much better for me than the fixed 3 levels of the early UIs. 

Plus you only ever see the dreaded flashing disco-mode when you double-click 6 times, so it is well out of the way of anyone except the compulsive click-artists


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Woods Walker said:


> Wow but we will have to see. That .1 Lm thing looks good. I hope they have a nice med setting that will run long. Too big of a jump between med and high on the H50-H501 but like them a bunch. Then again with settings it is hard to please everyone. The tint on the H501 cool LED was miles better than my H50 so despite my like of the w models if ZL stays picky with their tints aka no **** green or crazy blue a cool would be ok for me. I read these are going to be made in the USA. Is this true? If so a big plus as they could be fixed here should something should go wrong.


 I agree with the mode spacing concerns - but I like the current (H51 series) spacing Lm percentage options. Hopefully there will be a mode on the H502 at around 60 Lm for 10-12 hours; this would be a quite useful setting. 

I believe the H502 will be produced in China...

- Jas.


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



JA(me)S said:


> Hopefully there will be a mode on the H502 at around 60 Lm for 10-12 hours; this would be a quite useful setting.



And THAT's the setting that will have me ditching all my previous headlamps to buy the new H502. When working in the dark I "need" 30 lumens minimum and 50 is preferred. Whatever it is, it just needs to last for the 4+ hours from start to lunch, and from lunch to quit; any more is icing on the cake. 

I've always wondered why headlamp mfgrs don't grok the need for 4- and 8-hour duration. Just gimme your best for 4 or 8 hours. That's what's asked of me, and that's what I ask of my light.

BTW: 37 lumen for 10 hours is what the H60w put out on an 18650. Would be amazing to see that in a 1xAA format.


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## Djonah Inc.

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Oh boy! I was looking at the 501, but I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger yet...
If they come out, why not organise a group buy? If organised, count me in!!


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## fnj

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Having heard that the SC600 will be all modes current regulated, no PWM, I'm hoping the H502 may be the same. That would rock.


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## stp

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



tedh said:


> CaseyTan, in another thread (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?314206-Zebralight-Newer-doesn-t-mean-better), posted a spreadsheet from Zebralight listing current and proposed lights. The T5 is listed as 300 lumens, and given that it will share a driver with the H502, the H502 should be similar output.



Yep, but there is still one unknown - the runtime. It's always nice to have option for more lumens but for how long? 

If my speculations from here: XM-L-vs.-XP-G-comparision-follow-up-to-discussions-about-XM-L-in-ZL-H51 are correct then it means that XM-L will be used mostly for better (floody) beam pattern (H501 like). The lumens gain is mostly matter of better driver (current one wastes about 45% of power as heat). 

Now, I understand that some people were little disappointed with H51 beam so its great news but it would be interesting to see updated driver combined with XP-G (or XM-L but with H51 optics) - H52. It could be very nice edc light with little more throw when needed, about 250-260 lumens (with XP-G) and no visible PWM.


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## swrdply400mrelay

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I hope the neutral white version won't come out much later...this sound sooo tempting.


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## davidt1

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



stp said:


> Yep, but there is still one unknown - the runtime. It's always nice to have option for more lumens but for how long?
> 
> If my speculations from here: XM-L-vs.-XP-G-comparision-follow-up-to-discussions-about-XM-L-in-ZL-H51 are correct then it means that XM-L will be used mostly for better (floody) beam pattern (H501 like). The lumens gain is mostly matter of better driver (current one wastes about 45% of power as heat).
> 
> Now, I understand that some people were little disappointed with H51 beam so its great news but it would be interesting to see updated driver combined with XP-G (or XM-L but with H51 optics) - H52. It could be very nice edc light with little more throw when needed, about 250-260 lumens (with XP-G) and no visible PWM.



Yes, H52 would be an ideal upgrade for H51 while H502 is the logical upgrade for H501.

Zebralight said earlier that it will take 3-4 months to get NW XM-L for the SC600. I hope they will acquire enough to cover the H502 as well. This way by the time they release the H502, it will come in both cool and NW at the same time. From a business standpoint, it would benefit them to release both the cool and neutral white versions in time for the Christmas shopping spree.


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

stp,

I took a look at all the work you did - very impressive first post! It's both a shame and unusual no one responded... Anyway, thanks for the contribution and..

:welcome: - Jas.


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Djonah Inc. said:


> If they come out, why not organise a group buy? If organised, count me in!!



It's your idea...why don't you organize it? First stop is to see whether Zebralight even gives breaks for group buys. Chances are high us flashoholics will buy at full price anyway...


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## stp

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



JA(me)S said:


> stp,
> 
> I took a look at all the work you did - very impressive first post! It's both a shame and unusual no one responded... Anyway, thanks for the contribution and..
> 
> :welcome: - Jas.



:thanks: and don't worry, it's my fault - I should have choosen other subforum.


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## ZebraLight

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



fnj said:


> Having heard that the SC600 will be all modes current regulated, no PWM, I'm hoping the H502 may be the same. That would rock.



Yes. Starting with the SC600, all future models will be current regulated, no more PWM.


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## HIDblue

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



ZebraLight said:


> Yes. Starting with the SC600, all future models will be current regulated, no more PWM.


 
Nice job Zebralight! Any plans for an XM-L version of the H61?


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## ZebraLight

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



HIDblue said:


> Nice job Zebralight! Any plans for an XM-L version of the H61?



Yes, but was planned for next year.


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## Glock27

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Please make the SC60 UI standard. It is the best of all the lights I have. 6 different levels memorized is great!

G27


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## HIDblue

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



ZebraLight said:


> Yes, but was planned for next year.


 
That's fine with me...at least I know that an XM-L H61 is definitely in the works. Thank you.


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## Djonah Inc.

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Bolster said:


> It's your idea...why don't you organize it? First stop is to see whether Zebralight even gives breaks for group buys. Chances are high us flashoholics will buy at full price anyway...


 
Owkay 
I'll send a mail to zebralight and hear what they can do for us flashaholics 
Hopefully they'll be able to give us a special treatment 

I'll let you guys know

edit: mail sent


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## Djonah Inc.

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Djonah Inc. said:


> Owkay
> I'll send a mail to zebralight and hear what they can do for us flashaholics
> Hopefully they'll be able to give us a special treatment
> 
> I'll let you guys know
> 
> edit: mail sent


 
Their answer:
Sorry, no, we don't offer any groupbuy discounts.


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



fnj said:


> Having heard that the SC600 will be all modes current regulated, no PWM, I'm hoping the H502 may be the same. That would rock.
> 
> 
> ZebraLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Starting with the SC600, all future models will be current regulated, no more PWM.
Click to expand...

 


HIDblue said:


> Nice job Zebralight! Any plans for an XM-L version of the H61?
> 
> 
> 
> ZebraLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but was planned for next year.
Click to expand...


Awesome news!

- Jas.


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## Alan

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Just too bad that ZL doesn't have H602 in their plan:-(


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Alan said:


> Just too bad that ZL doesn't have H602 in their plan:-(


Wait, if you mean XM-L, 18650, they do - see preceding post. (& post #42)


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## fnj

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

But isn't the 501/502 much floodier than the SC600 seems to be by design?


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



fnj said:


> But isn't the 501/502 much floodier than the SC600 seems to be by design?


Yes, but HIDblue's query was carefully worded: he asked if there was an X-ML version of the H61 (not if there was an H version of the SC600). Also, ZebraLight's response is telling in that he doesn't imply it would be based on the SC600. 

However, I might be wrong in parsing the semantics too closely... 



HIDblue said:


> Nice job Zebralight! Any plans for an XM-L version of the H61?
> 
> 
> 
> ZebraLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but was planned for next year.
Click to expand...


I'd like to see an H6xx with a removable reflector - kills two birds with one stone! (but not if the headlamp head gets too cumbersome in the process)

- Jas.


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## fnj

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Sorry, James; sensory overload occurred.


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

More news:

The H502 will feature a switch that requires 34% more force to activate. (from here)

- Jas.


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## gunga

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I think we need to combine some threads? On the XM-L models, 502, SC600 etc?


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## pjandyho

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

This is real good news! Love my H501w for the floody beam profile without hotspot, and love my H51Fw for the bright output. Now this is a combination of both! And no PWM! I am in for one if the neutral comes out.


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## Glock27

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I'll have to get 2 a w & c. and an SC60c....ZebraLight is going to put me into the poor house.

G27


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



JA(me)S said:


> ...an X-ML version of the H61 ....



Recently, Zebralight implied they were concerned about cells that didn't have (in their opinion) great manufacturer control, and also implied they didn't want to make lights that would accept 'risky' cells. I put 2+2 together, and figured that the H60 and H60w were the "last of the line" of 18650 headlamps. Of course, I could be TOTALLY WRONG, that's just me guessing. But, it does make sense that a manufacturer would not want to be left holding the bag, liability-wise, if a Li-Ion blew and injured someone's head. So I would be a little surprised to see another 18650 headlamp. Handheld is a different story, however.

@ Glock -- please check your PM.


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## Alan

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Bolster said:


> Recently, Zebralight implied they were concerned about cells that didn't have (in their opinion) great manufacturer control, and also implied they didn't want to make lights that would accept 'risky' cells. I put 2+2 together, and figured that the H60 and H60w were the "last of the line" of 18650 headlamps. Of course, I could be TOTALLY WRONG, that's just me guessing. But, it does make sense that a manufacturer would not want to be left holding the bag, liability-wise, if a Li-Ion blew and injured someone's head. So I would be a little surprised to see another 18650 headlamp. Handheld is a different story, however.


 
I use H60 as utility light. It serves greatly as unidirectional lantern. This is most usable light I ever have (I possess more than 500+ lights). AA just doesn't have enough runtime for such job. They told me last year that they would have H60 with updated LED (XPG) in 2011 but their plan wasn't executed. By the time they have H602 in 2012, XM-L might even be obsolete. Then, they would wait for .... 2013:-(


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I don't see any 18650 headlamp in their planned offerings.


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## dealgrabber2002

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Where is the link to Zebralight new upcoming models? The one with when it's coming out, name, battery config, max lumen and min lumen,and type of emitter?

I thought I saw it here, but I guess I was wrong.


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



dealgrabber2002 said:


> Where is the link to Zebralight new upcoming models?


 Here ya go...

- Jas.


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

So, not to put too fine a point on it, there are no plans here for another 18650 headlamp. Maybe the H60w was the end of the line. 

Frankly I don't blame ZL if so; who wants the potential of a lithium accident a few millimeters away from a person's brain?


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## hazna

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Bolster said:


> So, not to put too fine a point on it, there are no plans here for another 18650 headlamp. Maybe the H60w was the end of the line.
> 
> Frankly I don't blame ZL if so; who wants the potential of a lithium accident a few millimeters away from a person's brain?



You know mobile phones and a lot of modern devices also use li-ion batteries...


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## pjandyho

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



hazna said:


> You know mobile phones and a lot of modern devices also use li-ion batteries...


 That was what I thought too but we can't omit the fact that there have already been a few cases of Li-Ion batteries exploding in flashlights. Personally, I try to use batteries from AW which are known to be safe and reliable so as to minimize any chance of an accident happening.


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



hazna said:


> You know mobile phones and a lot of modern devices also use li-ion batteries...



Correct. Li-ion isn't inherently dangerous. But with a cell phone, it generally isn't up to the user to find and purchase the cells and the charger as a do-it-yourself project; charge/discharge rates aren't generally a choice given to the user; and circuitry and battery quality are often tightly controlled by the device manufacturer. I'm aware that there are millions (or whatever the number is) of perfectly safe usages of li-ion to every venting episode, and venting episodes are rarely ever life-threatening. The risk is very, very low, especially if the user is moderately careful with a single cell 18650.

My post is more a question about the business risk-management calculations that ZL may or may not be making, rather than the inherent safety of the 18650. I'm not intending to go Off Topic on 18650s. For my part, I hope ZL DOES make an H601 or H602; I'd buy it! But I'm curious whether they're making a liability calculation at the same time, and if so, it wouldn't surprise me. Remember, it's an American company, with most of its product made in China, one of which is designed around a powerful energy cell that's not completely idiot-proof. Could you find a higher-profile target for litigation...I can hear the lawyers drooling. We Americans are not big on personal responsibility when something goes wrong; it's S.O.P. to sue anyone remotely involved in an accident that I myself may have caused...more's the pity.


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



HIDblue said:


> Any plans for an XM-L version of the H61?
> 
> 
> 
> ZebraLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but was planned for next year.
> 
> 
> 
> HIDblue said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's fine with me...at least I know that an XM-L H61 is definitely in the works. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 


Bolster said:


> So, not to put too fine a point on it, there are no plans here for another 18650 headlamp. Maybe the H60w was the end of the line.



ZL's roadmap only goes out to Q1 2012. If there were no plans for an XM-L H61, ZebraLight would have responded negatively to HIDblue's question. Instead, he answered affirmatively, but with either a release date in mind that exceeds the timeline in the provided roadmap, or with thoughts of adding it to the roadmap later. The roadmap is, most likely, a fluid document.

(edit: However, any chatter regarding tort law may reduce the likelihood of said light - so ) 

- Jas.


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## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



JA(me)S said:


> ...If there were no plans for an XM-L H61, ZebraLight would have responded negatively to Hidblue's question....


 
Then there's hope! Woot!


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## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Bolster said:


> Then there's hope! Woot!


That's what I've been trying to say! Keep the faith - it'll happen!:thumbsup:

- Jas.


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## Outdoorsman5

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

This is such good news. I recently got a H501w, and love it....just wished it was brighter. I almost bought two (one for my wife to read with.) Glad I didn't cuz I will hold out for the new one.


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## pblanch

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*





Cant wait to see.


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## Photonrunner

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Hope the 502 reverts back to 501's small form factor and light weight. 501 is an ideal light for running, not so much for the H51. Really the 501 is as big as I would want to go for use running. Improvement could be made to the head band as well to minimise bounce. The straps should connect to a stiffer material that is then backed by a soft foam to conform to the head. This would distribute the force from the head band over a larger contact area. 

Would rather see a push towards longer runtimes in a smaller package then more lumen output with large heatsinks.


----------



## moses

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Marking this page. Will be ordering the 502 when it's ready. Finally, they are making the light I've been waiting for from Zebralight.


----------



## ECL

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Photonrunner said:


> Would rather see a push towards longer runtimes in a smaller package then more lumen output with large heatsinks.


 
I'm definitively Runtimes+form factor over lumen camp


----------



## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



ECL said:


> I'm definitively Runtimes+form factor over lumen camp



Same here.


----------



## Gregozedobe

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Bolster said:


> Same here.


 
But isn't the whole point of the XM-L emitter that IS higher output ? Along with that goes higher current consumption, and more heat being produced, leading to a larger, heavier light with shorter run time. Not what I am looking for, but it may appeal to others

My preference would be for the same size H501 with better driver efficiency and more mid levels of illumination (and yes, I'm quite happy to have any disco modes shoved of somewhere in the UI where I won't come across them unless I want to)
.


----------



## Glock27

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

You wouldn't have to run the XM-L at full power all the time. Increased run-time with the lower modes will be nice. Higher efficiency rulz! 
G27


----------



## ECL

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Glock27 said:


> You wouldn't have to run the XM-L at full power all the time. Increased run-time with the lower modes will be nice. Higher efficiency rulz!
> G27


 But Higher output mean larger heatsink, therefore bigger and heavier headlamp.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



ECL said:


> But Higher output mean larger heatsink, therefore bigger and heavier headlamp.


...But we don't know the max-output yet. As I understand it, this emitter combined with a new optic will provide more of a floody beam like the first ZebraLights. I'm sure it will be bigger and heavier than those initial ones, but if it's only *running on a single AA it's not going to be that big and heavy*. 

I found when working on something like an engine which is dark, while kind of huge for s headlamp, the H60 had the output I wanted. I think this will be lighter weight than that. 

I have a feeling this is going to be a GREAT headlamp because it brings back the near field flood beam, with enough output that it will be really useful in all sorts of situations. It's about balance and ZebraLight seems to have a design sense that I appreciate and respect. I think they'll get it right.


----------



## uknewbie

Photonrunner said:


> Hope the 502 reverts back to 501's small form factor and light weight. 501 is an ideal light for running, not so much for the H51. Really the 501 is as big as I would want to go for use running. Improvement could be made to the head band as well to minimise bounce. The straps should connect to a stiffer material that is then backed by a soft foam to conform to the head. This would distribute the force from the head band over a larger contact area.
> 
> Would rather see a push towards longer runtimes in a smaller package then more lumen output with large heatsinks.


 
I agree. The H51f for me was a major let down, and I quickly sold mine. Compared to the beam of my much loved and used H501, it was not in the same league.

H502, if kept like the H501's beam, and small enough, is a must buy! That's right, must


----------



## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

The H502 dimensions:


 Bezel diameter: .9" (same as the H51)
 Length: 2.9" (right between the H31 at 2.6" and H51 at 3.2")
 The beam type will be all flood, very much like the H501.

- Jas.


----------



## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



JA(me)S said:


> The H502 dimensions:
> 
> 
> Bezel diameter: .9" (same as the H51)
> Length: 2.9" (right between the H31 at 2.6" and H51 at 3.2")



...and...



ZebraLight said:


> The diameters of [the mid] section are 18.2mm (H502) and 16.5mm (H501).


----------



## Outdoorsman5

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Photonrunner said:


> Hope the 502 reverts back to 501's small form factor and light weight. 501 is an ideal light for running, not so much for the H51. Really the 501 is as big as I would want to go for use running. Improvement could be made to the head band as well to minimise bounce. The straps should connect to a stiffer material that is then backed by a soft foam to conform to the head. This would distribute the force from the head band over a larger contact area.



Photonrunner, try using your H51 in a "Nite Ize" headband. Stiff & comfortable. Does not bounce around because the headband isn't elastic (nylon material.) Much more comfortable than anything else I've ever gone running with, and with the H51 rigged on it, it offers plenty of light. I've tried running with my H501w and it is just not bright enough for trail running.


----------



## tre

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Sounds great. Another great Zebralight.


----------



## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Wait a second. 

I got so caught up in the excitement of the new H502 I forgot to ask about TINT. Tint's important. 

Do we have any idea if it's blue, pink, yellow, green, purple, or what?


----------



## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

ZebraLight is currently waiting for the correct neutral tint XM-L for the SC600. By the time the H502 is released, ZebraLight should have access to this preferred neutral tint. Most likely the H502 will be released in both white and neutral simultaneously.

- Jas.


----------



## curry__muncha

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Will you be releasing a H502R version with a red LED? (as you did with the much loved H501R)


----------



## ZebraLight

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



curry__muncha said:


> Will you be releasing a H502R version with a red LED? (as you did with the much loved H501R)



No plans for a H502R. However, there will be 'r' versions of most current models to be released later this month.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



ZebraLight said:


> No plans for a H502R. However, there will be 'r' versions of most current models to be released later this month.


 
:twothumbs


----------



## subwoofer

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

My only full flood is the Ultrafire UF-H3 (and H2, but the parasitic drain is terrible in the H2), but having just bought the H51 and SC51 I can see how good the zebralight torches are.

I will have to buy the H502 when this comes out as I want a good quality full flood headlamp (so therefore a zebralight) and the added output from one AA and efficiency the XM-L should give will make this a winner with me. Can't wait, and I suspect there will be a wait for these with them being snapped up as soon as they are available.


----------



## ryguy24000

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Gonna have to get on of these lights when it is released. Really digging the flood style lamps for work. I am becoming a flood hound i think. Currently using a Spark st5 with Scotch tape over the lens, but I want more flood!!!


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Bolster said:


> Wait a second.
> 
> I got so caught up in the excitement of the new H502 I forgot to ask about TINT. Tint's important.
> 
> Do we have any idea if it's blue, pink, yellow, green, purple, or what?



After the early H30-H50 production ZL seems to pay attention to this issue unlike some others. So guessing they will avoid sickly squid **** green etc even on the cool white lights. I like my H501w but honestly the tint on the cool white H501 is vanilla white so also looks great. If they can do the same with the H502 it would be a toss up for me with a bias for the neutral.


----------



## B0wz3r

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



ZebraLight said:


> No plans for a H502R. However, there will be 'r' versions of most current models to be released later this month.


 
I want one in NVG green!!!


----------



## tedh

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I'm pretty happy with my 501, and it is plenty bright for what I do. In an attempt to dig for an excuse to upgrade, can someone tell me how much more efficient the new X-ML emitter is than the one used in the 501?

Ted


----------



## Beacon of Light

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I'd be down for a regular H502 cool white. Wondering what the runtime on that .1 lumen low will be though. XM-Ls are supposedly not that efficient at low drive levels.


----------



## tygger

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I was wondering the same thing. But on lower drive levels the XM-L should at least equal the efficiency of an XP-G, no?


----------



## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

ZebraLight is a genius at designing a light engine for a specific emitter and specific battery. I wouldn't put it past him for coming up with something special. Look what he did with the SC600 (XM-L, 18650): 750 Lm turbo w/5 minute step-down to 500 Lm for_ 2 hours_ all the way down to .1 Lm for _80 days_ - amazing. The Q50 (XM-L) will have even better performance on 4xAA (eneloop XX). I bet we'll be pleasantly surprised with the H502; it is after all, building on the legacy (3rd on the must have list) of the H501... something ZebraLight is not likely to take lightly...

- Jas.


----------



## Photonrunner

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



JA(me)S said:


> ZebraLight is a genius at designing a light engine for a specific emitter and specific battery. I wouldn't put it past him for coming up with something special. Look what he did with the SC600 (XM-L, 18650): 750 Lm turbo w/5 minute step-down to 500 Lm for_ 2 hours_ all the way down to .1 Lm for _80 days_ - amazing. The Q50 (XM-L) will have even better performance on 4xAA (eneloop XX). I bet we'll be pleasantly surprised with the H502; it is after all, building on the legacy (3rd on the must have list) of the H501... something ZebraLight is not likely to take lightly...
> 
> - Jas.


 
I just hope Zebralight doesn't compromise on one of the BIG elements that make the 501 such a great headlamp (*Small* size and weight). The 501 is right at the limit of an acceptable size for use as a light for night jogging. Any bigger and it becomes too annoying to run with.


----------



## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

The XM-L will require a slightly bigger body:


H501: 2.75" x .75"
H502: 2.9" x .9"
- Jas.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Luckily the increase in size does not affect me, and I won't be running with it. I'm as excited about this one as I was about the SC600, this has real potential. I think it is part of current ZebraLight design to keep all lights as small as possible, but I do still like the extremely small size of my early Zebralights and I'm happy to EDC the SC60w for the output and runtime.


----------



## Photonrunner

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



JA(me)S said:


> The XM-L will require a slightly bigger body:
> 
> 
> H501: 2.75" x .75"
> H502: 2.9" x .9"
> - Jas.


 
Guess I'll be staying with my 501 till something better comes along


----------



## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

The H302 (cr123) XM-L, will be smaller, but dimensions are still unknown... My _guess_: 2.5" x .9"

- Jas.


----------



## davidt1

I am so looking forward to this light. I have been happy with the H501 and H51w. The size increase from H501 to H51w is significant, but I got used to that. I have been wearing my H51w around my neck for a good 4 months now. The H502 appears to be a hair smaller than the H51. That is impressively small considering that the emitter used is XM-L. Finally, a true replacement for the H501 will be available.

I have also gotten used to and now love the clip on my H51w. It's sturdy enough and has really good gripping strength. It can rotate which makes it a good stabilizer to help with the bouncing when the light is used as a headlamp. It can be removed easily when needed. I hope Zebralight won't change the clip. If they do change it, at least keep the rotating function.


----------



## davidt1

I have also noticed that the H51 uses the same thin battery spring as the H501. I hope Zebralight will use a thicker and stronger spring for the H502 like the one they use in their bigger lights. Adding a magnet to the tail cap greatly enhances the versatility of a my H501. Unfortunately, the magnet was strong enough a pull the battery toward the tail end of the light. Eventually, after about 8 months of this stress, the spring weakened and the battery stopped making contact at the head of the light. For the H51w, I weaken the magnet's impact on the spring by putting a penny between tail cap and the magnet.

If it took 8 months of repeated stress to have an impact on a pretty thin contact spring, I am sure a thicker and stronger spring like the one used in their big lights will prevent this problem from occurring.


----------



## JA(me)S

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Bolster said:


> So, not to put too fine a point on it, there are no plans here for another 18650 headlamp. _*Maybe the H60w was the end of the line*_.


 Somebody's got a bun in the oven - with a September due date!

:thumbsup: - Jas.


----------



## Outdoorsman5

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Nice......the H600!


----------



## uknewbie

I would, all things even, go for the 18650 model H600, but this model is all flood, which is what I am after.


----------



## flasherByNight

Very excited to see this!

The H51FW for me is like a hybrid bike, decent at everything but not particularly good at any one thing. I find it very tiring to use for close up work...and excited to see what a "true" flood experience is like for close up work.

I REALLY hope they improve the headband, and mostly the silicone strap bit. Everything else will be icing for me.


----------



## pjandyho

I am fine with the headband. I just wished the headbands are put up for sale separately so that we could always buy one when it has worn.


----------



## Beacon of Light

pjandyho said:


> I am fine with the headband. I just wished the headbands are put up for sale separately so that we could always buy one when it has worn.


 
+1


----------



## varuscelli

pjandyho said:


> I am fine with the headband. I just wished the headbands are put up for sale separately so that we could always buy one when it has worn.


 
Although I don't think the headbands are listed as a separate item on the ZebraLight website, I asked about it and they sell them for just $2 (USD). Total cost including shipping charge is about $5 shipped to a U.S. address. That's for the headband only and not including the mount or other hardware for the light. 

Also -- if I'm interpreting the message I received correctly -- if you order a new ZebraLight headlamp and want an extra headband, I think they will include an extra for free if you ask for it as part of the order (headband only, no extra hardware accessories).


----------



## pjandyho

varuscelli said:


> Although I don't think the headbands are listed as a separate item on the ZebraLight website, I asked about it and they sell them for just $2 (USD). Total cost including shipping charge is about $5 shipped to a U.S. address. That's for the headband only and not including the mount or other hardware for the light.
> 
> Also -- if I'm interpreting the message I received correctly -- if you order a new ZebraLight headlamp and want an extra headband, I think they will include an extra for free if you ask for it as part of the order (headband only, no extra hardware accessories).


 
Wow thanks! That is valuable information! Well to me at least. I will check with ZL when my headband has worn. If I had known this earlier I would have asked because right now as it is I have an SC600 and two H31Fw on the way to me. So I guess it is too late.


----------



## varuscelli

pjandyho said:


> Wow thanks! That is valuable information! Well to me at least. I will check with ZL when my headband has worn. If I had known this earlier I would have asked because right now as it is I have an SC600 and two H31Fw on the way to me. So I guess it is too late.


 
Yeah, that's an exceptionally reasonable price for extra headbands, and even if it cost a couple of dollars to add an extra one to an order that's a really small price for the extra. If ZebraLight will actually add an extra for free to an order -- well, that's really cool (and the free extra on request was the way it was stated to me).


----------



## pjandyho

varuscelli said:


> Yeah, that's an exceptionally reasonable price for extra headbands, and even if it cost a couple of dollars to add an extra one to an order that's a really small price for the extra. If ZebraLight will actually add an extra for free to an order -- well, that's really cool (and the free extra on request was the way it was stated to me).


 
Yes that's true. Would be nice if they allow an additional order for the headband while placing an order for the lights. I wouldn't mind even if they charged $5 for it.


----------



## Beacon of Light

pjandyho said:


> Yes that's true. Would be nice if they allow an additional order for the headband while placing an order for the lights. I wouldn't mind even if they charged $5 for it.


 
Don't give them any ideas. I still wish they used the glow in the dark silicone holders instead of the more grippy black rubbery holders for the headlamps.


----------



## scout24

I'm hoping for a low-low in line with the SC600...  Thinking that if they both use XM-L, maybe the drivers will be similar.


----------



## varuscelli

Beacon of Light said:


> Don't give them any ideas. I still wish they used the glow in the dark silicone holders instead of the more grippy black rubbery holders for the headlamps.


 
When I ordered an H501w (AA) headlamp about three months ago they sent me both the glow-in-the-dark and black holders for the headband. 

It looks like the AA headlamps come with both holders but the CR123A headlamps come with only the black holder. 

Did they used to provide the CR123A version with a glow-in-the-dark holder, too? Or were they always with the black holder only?


----------



## Beacon of Light

When I ordered their older H30w that was on clearance, it came with the Glow in the Dark holder. All the seconde generation Zebralights seem to be black holders only. The 501 is an anomaly as they still sell it, but it is technically a first generation light, even though they tweaked it to add the 2nd low to the UI. That would explain why it is the only one to still come with the GITD holder. Also the H30 holder diameter is smaller than the H31 without it stretching it out. The same would be true of trying to fit an H51 into the older H50 GITD holder.



varuscelli said:


> When I ordered an H501w (AA) headlamp about three months ago they sent me both the glow-in-the-dark and black holders for the headband.
> 
> It looks like the AA headlamps come with both holders but the CR123A headlamps come with only the black holder.
> 
> Did they used to provide the CR123A version with a glow-in-the-dark holder, too? Or were they always with the black holder only?


----------



## varuscelli

Beacon of Light said:


> When I ordered their older H30w that was on clearance, it came with the Glow in the Dark holder. All the seconde generation Zebralights seem to be black holders only. The 501 is an anomaly as they still sell it, but it is technically a first generation light, even though they tweaked it to add the 2nd low to the UI. That would explain why it is the only one to still come with the GITD holder. Also the H30 holder diameter is smaller than the H31 without it stretching it out. The same would be true of trying to fit an H51 into the older H50 GITD holder.


 
All the H51 models seem to come with both the GITD holders and the black holders as well (like the H501). It looks like all the ZebraLight AA headlamps come with both, as far as I can tell.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Varuscelli, that's news to me. Any of the H51 threads since they've been out, I've failed to even notice the GITD holders, and I normally see only the black ones. Anyone have a picture?


----------



## B0wz3r

Beacon of Light said:


> Varuscelli, that's news to me. Any of the H51 threads since they've been out, I've failed to even notice the GITD holders, and I normally see only the black ones. Anyone have a picture?


 
Don't have a pic, but they're kind of pastey-white in the light. They glow neon green in the dark.

All of my ZL's have come with both GITD and regular black brackets.


----------



## B0wz3r

Beacon of Light said:


> Varuscelli, that's news to me. Any of the H51 threads since they've been out, I've failed to even notice the GITD holders, and I normally see only the black ones. Anyone have a picture?


 
Don't have a pic, but they're kind of pastey-white in the light. They glow neon green in the dark.

All of my ZL's have come with both GITD and regular black brackets.


----------



## varuscelli

Beacon of Light said:


> Varuscelli, that's news to me. Any of the H51 threads since they've been out, I've failed to even notice the GITD holders, and I normally see only the black ones. Anyone have a picture?


 
I can't actually speak to the question about the H51 headlamps by ownership (that is, I've never received an H51 package in the mail from ZL), but when I look on the ZebraLight page for any given light, I can scroll down to the section that's labeled "Accessories in the Package" and it looks as though all the AA headlamps show as including the GITD holder. I'm kind of speculating here, but maybe most folks show pics of their headlamps in the headband holders and I think the holders that come attached to the headband are perhaps always the black ones with the GITD ones as loose accessories. 

As a kind of interesting side note, I wanted to order a couple of extra GITD and black holders from ZebraLight to experiment with, and when I did so the black ones they sent me came attached to headbands. So, I got headbands with both the black ones (when I thought I would be getting loose black holders) and the GITD holders were loose in the package. But ZL also sent me a GITD on a lanyard, an extra pocket clip, and some extra o-rings. Considering all I wanted were two extra black holders and two GITD holders to experiment with, they sent me a BUNCH of extra stuff at no extra cost (two extra headbands, an extra GITD holder on a lanyard, an extra pocket clip and extra o-rings).

Here's a pic of the package of goodies I received when I ordered two black holders and two GITD holders:


----------



## JS_280

My H51Fw came with the headband plus the black and GITD holders. They're on my desk at work or I would post a pic.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Ok dumb question here, but how do you remove the black holder from the band to replace with the GITD holder? They don't appear to have a slot where the band fits in (on the holder attached to the band) and the band is a connected loop with no break in the elastic.


----------



## FroggyTaco

You know I just went & looked at mine & I dont know how you would without undoing the stitching.


----------



## pjandyho

You can actually. For some time I couldn't figure out how I could change out the holder but some 9 year old kids playing with my H501w actually got the band loosened up. I tried to figure out how Zebralight fastened the band so I took out the same band from my H51Fw and studied it. Suddenly it dawned upon me how easy but yet elusive the attachment was done. Wish I could shoot a video and post it up.


----------



## varuscelli

Beacon of Light said:


> Ok dumb question here, but how do you remove the black holder from the band to replace with the GITD holder? They don't appear to have a slot where the band fits in (on the holder attached to the band) and the band is a connected loop with no break in the elastic.


 
One of the hard plastic routers (I guess that's what they're called) has the headband end sewn around it and the other plastic router has a loose end looped through it. The loose end is pretty well hidden under other folds of the headband, but if you loosen the headband enough you'll end up seeing it.

Someone help me out with my terminology...are the hard plastic pieces called cinches or routers or what? I'm blanking.


----------



## JS_280

Here is the headband with GITD undone...








And as best as I can tell...how it goes back together...


----------



## Outdoorsman5

That way works, but you did it backwards (compared to how ZL does it anyway.) The loose end piece should end up on the inside of the band and underneath a section of the band....sorry can't explain it any better.....but your way works just fine.


----------



## varuscelli

JS_280 said:


> Here is the headband with GITD undone...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And as best as I can tell...how it goes back together...


 


Or for anyone who might want to mirror the routing as it comes from ZebraLight, here's an image. The only advantage I can see with the original routing is that no loose end is hanging once it's cinched up tight -- but to me the original routing seems fairly convoluted.


----------



## varuscelli

varuscelli said:


>


 
My problem with these things is that sometimes if I don't do a "before" photo and then take the thing apart my somewhat unreliable spatial relations memory has me putting them back together any which way I can. But this is the "before" photo as merely loosened up.


----------



## JS_280

varuscelli said:


> My problem with these things is that sometimes if I don't do a "before" photo and then take the thing apart my somewhat unreliable spatial relations memory has me putting them back together any which way I can. But this is the "before" photo as merely loosened up.



Same here...and thanks for the "Before Picture". I forgot to take one, hence the backwards way I put mine back together...


----------



## varuscelli

JS_280 said:


> Same here...and thanks for the "Before Picture". I forgot to take one, hence the backwards way I put mine back together...


 
Yeah, I don't think the way my "before" photo shows the setup is necessarily intuitive. Without the reference photo, I would probably have routed it exactly like you did in your photo. 

I also use a Fenix headband, and based on things I've read and been told about it the Fenix headband is not set up correctly as delivered in that is has the potential to loosen on its own if not rerouted from the original configuration. 

But the original routing on the ZebraLight headband seems to work the way it's supposed to and keeps the loose end neatly tucked away (and hidden) while allowing easy loosening or tightening as needed.


----------



## davidt1

I was posting something in another thread and realized something that I need to post here for Zebralight about the clip that comes with the new H series. The clip on my H51W is showing signs of rust (the humid and hot weather in Houston is brutal) already. I have some stainless steel clips that are stronger and resist corrosion much better than the stock clip on my H51W. 

Zebralight, is it possible to change the clip to a stainless steel one for the H502?

Here is a picture of the H501 and H51W with two different clips. The H501 has a Fenix Stainless steel clip that I paid $3 for. The H51W has the stock clip. Zebralight and Fenix are both in the same business. It would be fairly easy to find out who made the clip for Fenix and have them make some for you. The more I think about it, a nice and fairly expensive light such as the H51 and H502 should have a better clip. If it cost more, I am willing to pay more for the light. Please consider changing the clip to a stainless steel one. It will add more quality and appeal to your angle lights.


----------



## Bolster

davidt1 said:


> Zebralight, is it possible to change the clip to a stainless steel one for the H502?



I second that motion!


----------



## uknewbie

Yeah these clips should be stainless steel at least for several reasons.

This will be my next light I am sure.

Where are the pictures already!


----------



## davidt1

Their spreadsheet says, "it's shorter than the H501". Output for the cool white version is listed at 300lm. The specs look real good. I expect the H502 to be an amazing light. Based on the specs:

It will have a pure flood beam profile like the H501

Shorter than the H501

Brighter than the H51F

I hope they will use a stiffer and more recessed button like that of the SC600. I also hope they will use a thicker battery spring than the one the they use in the H51/H501. And of course, a stainless steel clip will be a great improvement as well. I have money put away for this light already. And although I want this light (NW) badly, I don't want Zebralight to rush it through. 

Zebralight, take your time to do a thorough QC before releasing it.


----------



## hazna

davidt1 said:


> Zebralight, take your time to do a thorough QC before releasing it.


 
As much as I am eagerly waiting for this light to be release, I agree with davidt1's statement.


----------



## jellydonut

hazna said:


> As much as I am eagerly waiting for this light to be release, I agree with davidt1's statement.


 
In addition - my H31 *eats* CR123s from parasitic drain. *This happens even when i partially unscrew the tailcap to hinder parasitic drain.* I have no idea how or why.


----------



## RedForest UK

If you unscrew the tailcap the circuit should be broken and it should be impossible for any sort of standby current. Are you sure it isn't a problem with the batteries?


----------



## davidt1

After looking at the specs for the SC80 -- 3.2 inches long and can accommodate both types of batteries -- I am wishing they make the H502 this way. Such a headlamp would be the first in the world and will sell like crazy. 3.2 inches isn't too long/tall for a headlamp. The H51 is 3.2in long, and I have no problem with this length.


----------



## Harry999

That is a great idea. Hopefully it could then run 14500 batteries.

Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


----------



## uknewbie

Yeah the ability to run 14500 would be good, very good. 

Sent from my ANDROID device.


----------



## davidt1

I had CR123 in mind when I posted above because, when in a pinch, you can get it at most places. As for 14500, I am pretty sure you can stick one in your current and future ZL lights with no problem. They will still put out light even if the circuit isn't optimized for it. 

The big attraction of having a light that can take two completely different battery types is that it gives you options when you don't have access to your primary battery. Take me for example. My primary battery is Eneloop AA, and I always carry 4 in my backpack. If I lose the backpack and need a new battery, I can go to just about any corner store and and buy either AA or CR123 to use -- if I have something like the SC80.


----------



## Paolos

Dammit! Just as I finally decide on getting an H51fw, you guys go and throw a spanner in the works! 

I never really understood the difference between the functionality of the H51f range and the h501's. Can anyone tell me? 

I'm looking for a right angled light that i can clip to my jacket pocket when i go out for a walk at night. The h51fw seemed to be the best choice. Should I get the h51fw or hold on for the h502?


----------



## davidt1

Paolos said:


> Dammit! Just as I finally decide on getting an H51fw, you guys go and throw a spanner in the works!
> 
> I never really understood the difference between the functionality of the H51f range and the h501's. Can anyone tell me?
> 
> I'm looking for a right angled light that i can clip to my jacket pocket when i go out for a walk at night. The h51fw seemed to be the best choice. Should I get the h51fw or hold on for the h502?



The H51F is brighter and throws further than the H501. However, it doesn't have a true flood beam like the H501. There are a lot of happy owners. Get it if you need one now. Otherwise wait for the H502. The new H502 is absolutely worth waiting for. I haven't been this excited about any light before.


----------



## Paolos

Ironically, I was worried about the h51fw being too floody. Most of my lights are pretty throwy, sc51, fenix ld10, 20 and 40, so thats what im used to. Figured I'd go for something different this time so I'm not doubling up on what I already have, just in a slightly different form factor. I dont need one immediately as i have all the above so I'd be happy enough to hold out if the 502 would be better for me.

I want to see what I'm about to step in, but I want to see more than 15 feet in front of me, so maybe the 502 wouldn't be the ideal choice. You guys would know better about that as I've never has a flood light before. 

Of course it is really annoying when you buy a light and the next month one comes out that is brighter and runs for longer!


----------



## davidt1

The H51F/H502 will let you see more than 15ft in front of you. In my experience a true flood beam is extremely useful for everything from reading to walking. With a true flood beam you don't have to turn your head constantly to aim the beam. I have flashlights with more throw than my H501/H51W, but I don't use them anymore. In fact I haven't been interested in buying flashlights for sometimes now. My H51W has probably the same throw as your SC51. I have to use a diffuser material to smooth out the beam to achieve a floodier beam. But the somewhat diffused beam of my H51W is not as useful as the true flood beam of the H501. 

The point is, if you get an angle ZL light with a true flood beam, you will most likely say what I said after getting mine: "How did I live without it!!!"


----------



## Paolos

I've pretty much decided on getting a flood light and your comments have got me much more confident and excited about getting one. Just have to decide between the h51fw and the h502!


----------



## B0wz3r

I use DC-fix on my H51w and I really like it. I'm not a fan of the "pure flood" beam. I like the bright but diffused center tapering off in brightness that you get with a frosted lens and reflector combination. Paolos: the best way to describe the beam on the F models is just like this... you get a bright but diffuse center, the corona around the hotspot blends gradually into the spill portion of the beam, and the spill seem to get darker on the edges, at least to my eyes, with the reflector/frosted-lens combo. I really like that beam profile. I currently EDC an SC50w+ that I've had for over a year now, and I use DC-fix on it as well. Even with just a regular Eneloop or an L91 in it, at 107 lumens and the DC fix on it, it's plenty of bright for EDC use. There's an old cemetery at the top of a hill near where I live, and I take my wife's poodle out for at night up that hill usually. There's lots of tree cover and my 50w+ is plenty bright in that situation; it will easily light up the fence and wall of the cemetery from across the street, a distance of a good 40' or so. Even on the sidewalk up there and back, where there are the standard sodium vapor streetlights we have here in the States, the 107 lumens is still enough to brightly light up a good 15' - 20' in front of me, with the DC-fix on the lens. 

In short, an Fw on its two highest settings will still give you a pretty decent range for the beam.


----------



## tygger

I have to agree with david. The H501w is the best headlamp I've ever owned, especially for camping. When the H502w comes out, I'm buying two.


----------



## saypat

tygger said:


> I have to agree with david. The H501w is the best headlamp I've ever owned, especially for camping. When the H502w comes out, I'm buying two.


 

no problem, just don't buy the last two! I want one!


----------



## Paolos

Thanks for the advice guys, it's very much appreciated.


----------



## B0wz3r

All this talk of the pure flood beams has me interested now... I bought an energizer headlamp about a year and a half ago that has a focusable output, but its beam profile is ringy, especially zoomed in, and even zoomed out it's got a pretty narrow beam. It's also cool white, which I can't stand anymore.

So despite my earlier bad experience with the pure flood beam, I'm willing to consider getting one... this is _Zebralight_ we're talking about, after all...


----------



## Camille

offerings are to be 300 lumens, which is darned impressive.


----------



## moses

Marking. Been waiting for this for over a year now - its been quite delayed but yes, it is probably the most anticipated light to suit my needs. Nothing like a great flood lamp. If they would come out with a high CRI unit, even if it is dimmer, that would just be close to perfection.

Mo


----------



## applevision

My word, Zebralight needs to give my wallet a break! I just got the H51c and I am delighted, delighted! Compared to my H501w, the H51c is MUCH better at rendering color--I am amazed. But, although this light has a beautiful beam, it is a traditional beam with a reflector, and thus hotspot + spill. This makes it a better caving light possibly, and better for medium to long distances, of course, but actually makes me like it less for the late night close up tasks that I use my H501w for--like reading books! So now... I am already getting hungry for the H502c (XM-L)... so I will wait with you...

What an amazing time to be a flashaholic!


----------



## davidt1

Amazing time indeed!

I like both my H501 and H51W, but prefer the true flood beam of the H501. The H501, unfortunately, isn't bright enough for more than 15ft away. The H502W will be the light for me.


----------



## Bolster

Ditto that. I own 3 H501s, have given away 3 as gifts, and I still could use another one. But, holding off until this H502w appears, it sounds excellent.


----------



## uknewbie

Here here. 

What will be the difference between the H502 and the H602 I wonder? 

Both will have to be bought. 

So will the S6330b when it arrives. That sounds awesome.


----------



## pjandyho

uknewbie said:


> Here here.
> 
> What will be the difference between the H502 and the H602 I wonder?
> 
> Both will have to be bought.
> 
> So will the S6330b when it arrives. That sounds awesome.


 
What's a H602? Something new? Is it a smooth beam version of the H600?


----------



## Zenbaas

pjandyho said:


> What's a H602? Something new? Is it a smooth beam version of the H600?


 
It's listed on ZL's website when you click on the compare products button.


----------



## pjandyho

Zenbaas said:


> It's listed on ZL's website when you click on the compare products button.


 
Thanks! Looks like that is exactly what I have been waiting for. I will have to drop the H600w and really wait for the H602w. Always liked the super smooth beam of the H501w but want a brighter one running on 18650.


----------



## Zenbaas

pjandyho said:


> Thanks! Looks like that is exactly what I have been waiting for. I will have to drop the H600w and really wait for the H602w. Always liked the super smooth beam of the H501w but want a brighter one running on 18650.


 
No prob. I also like a floody beam but I'm thinking most of the XML beams are floody in any case, so the H600 with a little bit extra throw might work out pretty well.


----------



## uknewbie

So the H602 is an H502 that runs on 18650?

If so and it is a proper flood beam, it is a must buy for me!


----------



## FroggyTaco

Well their old 18650 headlights were H60 models so the H600 would "have to" be the new all flood 18650 headlamp.


----------



## Zenbaas

FroggyTaco said:


> Well their old 18650 headlights were H60 models so the H600 would "have to" be the new all flood 18650 headlamp.


 
The specs on ZL website says that the H600 is spot and spill but not all flood.


----------



## Mr. Tone

Any news from Zebralight on the 502? Will we see this in 2011? Will a neutral white version be available right away? I really am looking forward to this one.


----------



## davidt1

Mr. Tone said:


> Any news from Zebralight on the 502? Will we see this in 2011? Will a neutral white version be available right away? I really am looking forward to this one.



Cool H502 we will most likely get this year. I am waiting on H502W. There is no telling when that's available. I wish there will be an H80F with X-ML also. In fact I would pick that over the H502. So for me it will H502W first and H80FW later, if they even make one.


----------



## ico

I saw the McGizmo Sundrop a few weeks ago and it got me interested in an all flood light. The sundrop is way too much for my budget so I was looking at the H501W. It had the specs I wanted, only wished it would be brighter so I was also looking at the H51FW but I really want H501W`s all flood. Good thing someone mentioned the H502 and I can`t do anything but wait for its arrival


----------



## Outdoorsman5

ico said:


> ...Good thing someone mentioned the H502 and I can`t do anything but wait for its arrival



I bet it'll be worth the wait. I really love my H501w, but honestly it's just not always bright enough especially when I'm in a campsite where there's a lot of ambient light. I'm hoping the brighter H502 will make up for the H501's shortcomings.


----------



## pjandyho

Outdoorsman5 said:


> I bet it'll be worth the wait. I really love my H501w, but honestly it's just not always bright enough especially when I'm in a campsite where there's a lot of ambient light. I'm hoping the brighter H502 will make up for the H501's shortcomings.


What battery are you running in the H501w? Are you aware it will run brighter on Eneloop? I only came to that realization two months back after having owned it for almost a year and using 14500. But I do agree a brighter high would be even more beneficial for times when you need a little extra lumens.


----------



## Outdoorsman5

I'm using an eneloop in it. Luckily I saw some of the reports that the light actually runs better on eneloops (strange huh.) Anyway, sure love this light & looking forward to the brighter version.


----------



## dwong

Will there be a H502Fc version? 
Need one for night hiking 90% usage.


----------



## Outdoorsman5

dwong said:


> Will there be a H502Fc version?
> Need one for night hiking 90% usage.



I think you mean H502c. The "F" would indicate that the light has a reflector and the lense is frosted turning it into a flood light. The H502 has no reflector & therefore does not need to have a frosted lense. It is already pure flood like the H501.

There's nothing on zebralight's website that indicates whether or not they are planing on making a "C" version (high cri) of the light. If you click on the red button on their home page that says "Compare All Models" they list upcoming lights in the "near" future. So, they may be planning one; just not on the radar yet. Also, I don't think they ever made a "c" version of the H501....for whatever that's worth.


----------



## RedForest UK

No, there are no High CRI XR-E or XM-L (non-easywhite 4 die led versions) available that I know of, so the H501 and H502 will not have a 'c' version anytime soon.


----------



## dwong

Thanks for the clarification guys. 
Currently using a NT 120P for hikes, all my friends using BD Storm which is also great for camping.
Can't wait for my first HL.


----------



## Woods Walker

This is the only light in long time which I want big time.


----------



## davidt1

If master hiker Woods Walker wants one, it's gotta be some special light.


----------



## B0wz3r

RedForest UK said:


> No, there are no High CRI XR-E or XM-L (non-easywhite 4 die led versions) available that I know of, so the H501 and H502 will not have a 'c' version anytime soon.



Personally, I hope that you're wrong, but in general, I agree.

I lost my H51w and am very interested in a 502w, and would love to see a 501c (I'd be happy with the Rebel that's in the 51c's).


----------



## Bolster

If they did come out with a 501c (or 502c), what purpose would there be to continue the 501w (or 502w). Seems everybody interested in a 'w' would just switch over to a 'c.'

On another topic, do you expect to see the 501w's on sale soon? They are so compact for carry, I might need another "pre-need replacement."


----------



## tygger

Lol. 501's are happiest in groups of 2's, 3's, or 4's. Man, I cannot wait for the H502. Everytime this thread is bumped I race over to see if the release date has been set.


----------



## Bolster

It must make Zebralight glow with happiness when they see a pre-announcement like this getting 7 pages of enthusiastic discussion.


----------



## B0wz3r

Bolster said:


> If they did come out with a 501c (or 502c), what purpose would there be to continue the 501w (or 502w). Seems everybody interested in a 'w' would just switch over to a 'c.'
> 
> On another topic, do you expect to see the 501w's on sale soon? They are so compact for carry, I might need another "pre-need replacement."



Based on the outputs of the 51c compared to the 51w, I'd say there's still a place for W models in the line-up, though at this point I think ZL is getting a little bogged down in model proliferation. I think a lot of that could be solved by what we've already talked about here by them using a threaded bezel so diffusers and filters could be added to the light. That way they'd only have to make a handful of models, and could still hit all the niche's they've been aiming for.

But, if they do come out with a 502c, I'll definitely consider it instead of an H51c as the replacement for my lost H51w, although I'm thinking about getting an ST6-460nw instead, and using it primarily as a cycling light.


----------



## davidt1

Neutral white is good enough for me.


----------



## B0wz3r

davidt1 said:


> Neutral white is good enough for me.



Yeah, I could live with just a neutral tint, though I'd prefer a high CRI emitter...

Honestly, it's not that big of a deal for me anyway... I wasn't really using my H51w for outdoors stuff anyway, where it would really matter. Since I've come to prefer the form factor of the Sparks because they work better with a hat, and I almost always wear a baseball cap when I'm hiking or the like.


----------



## davidt1

B0wz3r said:


> Yeah, I could live with just a neutral tint, though I'd prefer a high CRI emitter...
> 
> Honestly, it's not that big of a deal for me anyway... I wasn't really using my H51w for outdoors stuff anyway, where it would really matter. Since I've come to prefer the form factor of the Sparks because they work better with a hat, and I almost always wear a baseball cap when I'm hiking or the like.



I was simply stating my preference for tint, not how my H51w compares to another light in the hat-wearing capacity. I am happy for you that you like wearing your light on your hat and that you have found something you like, but you are preaching to the wrong person here. If I can't EDC a light on my person, then it is of little value to me. It's about individual uses and needs. From an on-person EDC perspective, there is nothing that can touch a ZL headlamp, hat wear or otherwise. 

There is not need for a bulky headband here, much less a jockstrap type.






It's always on my person. No bag or car trunk EDC here.


----------



## varuscelli

Another thing perhaps worth mentioning for those of us who occasionally wear a baseball cap into the evening when we need a headlamp: I'll often just flip my cap around backwards so the visor doesn't get in the way of the headlamp. There's not really all that much need of the visor above your face in the evening, so flipping it around tends to solve the "visor gets in the way" issue.


----------



## B0wz3r

davidt1 said:


> I was simply stating my preference for tint, not how my H51w compares to another light in the hat-wearing capacity. I am happy for you that you like wearing your light on your hat and that you have found something you like, but you are preaching to the wrong person here. If I can't EDC a light on my person, then it is of little value to me. It's about individual uses and needs. From an on-person EDC perspective, there is nothing that can touch a ZL headlamp, hat wear or otherwise.
> 
> There is not need for a bulky headband here, much less a jockstrap type.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's always on my person. No bag or car trunk EDC here.



David, you're reading far too much into my post. I wasn't trying to convert you, I wasn't preaching, etc. I was merely stating my very own opinion.

I never said anything like "you're wrong, I'm right", or "Zebras suck and Sparks rule", or "you're stupid because of ..." or anything like that.

Take a deep breath, put the mouse down, and back away... _Chill_...


----------



## psychbeat

varuscelli said:


> Another thing perhaps worth mentioning for those of us who occasionally wear a baseball cap into the evening when we need a headlamp: I'll often just flip my cap around backwards so the visor doesn't get in the way of the headlamp. There's not really all that much need of the visor above your face in the evening, so flipping it around tends to solve the "visor gets in the way" issue.



WERD.

I was wondering where to buy those hats that have the bill in back rather than front tho...

back on topic- do you guys think these will have the same driver as the H51?
it seems like a pretty good one besides no 14500 option.
or the H501 driver that accepts 14500 but runs it dimmer.

Wow... Im wasting ALOT of time on CPF today 
:thumbsup:

I like the idea of having one AA light so I may sell my H51 and get the H502w when/if it is released.


----------



## varuscelli

psychbeat said:


> WERD.
> 
> I was wondering where to buy those hats that have the bill in back rather than front tho...



Or the even more rare "rally cap" version that's sold backward AND inside out. I've got one of those, too. :naughty:


----------



## psychbeat

One of mine goes slightly sideways and has a flat bill. Id wear it more if I had a dodgy lift kit on my truck. 
Or if I could manage driving whilst having the seat reclined to its penultimate angle. Until then slightly flat brim blank mesh cap in brown n cream. 
Ive worn my HL under the brim in the rain w hood on. Worked fine. 


On topic (don't wanna get busted)

Do u guys think the 502 will be as large as the 51?


-Large Marge


----------



## ZebraLight

psychbeat said:


> Do u guys think the 502 will be as large as the 51?
> 
> 
> -Large Marge



It's somewhere inbetween the 501 and 51.


----------



## davidt1

Now that explains why the "Yes, it's shorter than the H501" statement was removed from the product listing.


----------



## psychbeat

ZebraLight said:


> It's somewhere inbetween the 501 and 51.



Im cool with that,

thanks Mr Zebralight!!


----------



## davidt1

The pictures of the H600 don't show a clip. It appears to be a clipless light. I hope that's not true, at least for the H502. If they take the clip away, they will take away much of the versatility. I won't buy the H502 if it doesn't come with a swiveling clip like the one the H51 has.


----------



## varuscelli

davidt1 said:


> The pictures of the H600 don't show a clip. It appears to be a clipless light. I hope that's not true, at least for the H502. If they take the clip away, they will take away much of the versatility. I won't buy the H502 if it doesn't come with a swiveling clip like the one the H51 has.



I'm just guessing of course, but my guess would be that that the biggest likelihood is that the H600 and H502 would come with the same kind of clips the H60 and H501 came with (which are both swiveling clips, but not the same kind of swiveling clips the H51 has). Certainly the H502 should come with a clip. 

Then again, the description of the accessories for the H600 says only silicon holder with headband and spare o-rings (no mention of a clip). 

Perhaps it's feared the potential heat that could be generated by the H600 on a pocket clip might sear a hole in the user's chest or thigh if the light actually got turned on in that position.


----------



## B0wz3r

davidt1 said:


> The pictures of the H600 don't show a clip. It appears to be a clipless light. I hope that's not true, at least for the H502. If they take the clip away, they will take away much of the versatility. I won't buy the H502 if it doesn't come with a swiveling clip like the one the H51 has.



I'm sure there'll be other clips out there you'll be able to stick on one of the new Zebras to give it the additional usability you want. It'll probably just be a matter of poking around some to find one.


----------



## davidt1

B0wz3r said:


> I'm sure there'll be other clips out there you'll be able to stick on one of the new Zebras to give it the additional usability you want. It'll probably just be a matter of poking around some to find one.



It's pure speculation on my part the H502 won't come with a swiveling clip. Unless there have been major complains about the H51 clip, it doesn't make any sense for them not to use it on future lights. If anything, as I have posted many pictures to show, the H51 swiveling clip is an ingenious design.

As for finding an aftermarket clip that would fit exactly and can swivel without scratching the finish, I doubt it.


----------



## varuscelli

davidt1 said:


> Unless there have been major complains about the H51 clip, it doesn't make any sense for them not to use it on future lights. If anything, as I have posted many pictures to show, the H51 swiveling clip is an ingenious design.



I can see the logic in that. If the H51 clip represents an improvement over the kind of clip that came with the H501, it would be easy to see a switch to an H51 style clip for the H502.


----------



## saypat

size, clip, this, that .... I'm getting one for FLOOD and 300 lummies on a AA! Just hope it's available in the 1st part of the month.


----------



## Bolster

Does anyone know, for how long the new H502 will sustain its top lumen setting? I'm going to guess 30 min?


----------



## B0wz3r

davidt1 said:


> It's pure speculation on my part the H502 won't come with a swiveling clip. Unless there have been major complains about the H51 clip, it doesn't make any sense for them not to use it on future lights. If anything, as I have posted many pictures to show, the H51 swiveling clip is an ingenious design.
> 
> As for finding an aftermarket clip that would fit exactly and can swivel without scratching the finish, I doubt it.


 


varuscelli said:


> I can see the logic in that. If the H51 clip represents an improvement over the kind of clip that came with the H501, it would be easy to see a switch to an H51 style clip for the H502.



The only gripe I have about the clip on the new H series lights is that it's a pull on-off design. Not that it's not fairly sturdy, it's just that I'd be happier with something along the lines of a clip that attached by screwing the tailcap down over it. On the other hand, if they came up with something that would make it easy to clip the light onto something sideways, like the bill of a cap that would be great. I think it could be something similar to the way the loops on the headlamp bracket are set up; they'd attach to the body of the light in pretty much the same way, but the clip would be perpendicular to the body of the light, allowing you to slip it under the brim of a hat, inside the edge of a pocket, etc.


----------



## robostudent5000

has there been any hint of what the modes will be?


----------



## davidt1

A tribute to the ingenious swiveling clip and the hope that Zebralight is not shortsighted so as to change a great thing they have created.

One of the complains about the H501 is that the clip is too bulky and takes too much time and effort to put on and remove. Zebralight responded by making a better clip for their new H lights. How much better? Way better. It swivels. It's much smaller. It takes about a second to put on or remove.

Owners of the H501 surely know what a PIA it is to remove the clip so they can use the silicon holder. The swiveling clip on the H51 is much easier to remove and reinstall. Installing the light on the silicon holder and keeping the clip someplace safe, on the other hand, are something else. But that's something folks who rely on the silicon holder have to worry about.






For those who use their ZL headlamp creatively, the process is even easier. There is no need to remove the clip, keep it in a safe place, and reinstall later.





The genius behind the swiveling clip is that it can transform a ZL headlamp into a desk lamp, overhead light, or utility light with the use of a few magnets. Traditionally, the way to use a magnet is gluing it to the tailcap. There are two problems with this approach:

1. Once glued in place, a magnet will be hard to remove and removing it might scratch the finish.

2. A light with tailcap magnet can only rotate sideways, not up or down.

A tail-mounted magnet is limited to sideways adjustments.





A magnet attached to the swiveling clip, on the other hand, offers unlimited beam-angle adjustments. And there is no need to glue a magnet anywhere.






I hope I have provided Zebralight some compelling evidence to keep using the swiveling clip on their future lights.


----------



## B0wz3r

The only fault I see in the 51 series clips is that they're not designed to be reversible. I know, you can flip it around, but there's no dedicated groove toward the head for it, so it can slip around. When clipping the light onto a pocket, pack strap, etc., I find I like the switch to be on top, which makes it easier for me to access and change levels. When the light is upside down, I have a much harder time with this. A minor issue, yes, but still one that bugs me personally. One of the main reasons I've never been able to get comfortable with using my H51w as a primary EDC.


----------



## davidt1

I can't help but wonder if you argue just for the sake of arguing. In your previous post you expressed a desire to have clip that the tailcap screws over. Such a clip would orient the light in the same position the current clip does and can't be reversed. Now the current clip does not please you because it can not be positioned the other way? You also own an SC light. The clip for that light can't be reversed either. Does that bother you, too? 

All I can say is, others have come up with way to EDC and use their ZL headlamps creatively. I suggest you do the same.


----------



## robostudent5000

dude, david, leave doctor bowzer alone. we get that you're on a mission to convince everyone to edc a Zebra just like you do - evidenced by you having made that statement yourself and you bombarding multiple, sometimes unrelated threads with your sometimes genius, sometimes clumsy edc mod pics - but if he doesn't want to follow you he doesn't want to follow you. there's nothing wrong with that. just let him be.


----------



## davidt1

Please excuse us. We are just Zebralight owners talking here.


----------



## B0wz3r

davidt1 said:


> I can't help but wonder if you argue just for the sake of arguing. In your previous post you expressed a desire to have clip that the tailcap screws over. Such a clip would orient the light in the same position the current clip does and can't be reversed. Now the current clip does not please you because it can not be positioned the other way? You also own an SC light. The clip for that light can't be reversed either. Does that bother you, too?
> 
> All I can say is, others have come up with way to EDC and use their ZL headlamps creatively. I suggest you do the same.



David...

You really need, I mean *really*, need to take a chill pill...

As I mentioned before, I'm just stating my opinion. Where is there anything in what I said that contradicts what I've said before? Can't a guy have two different thoughts on the same thing? Why do you assume that they have to be contrary or opposite to one another, and why are you reading all this intent into my posts that's clearly not there? Why are you assuming that I'm preaching to you, saying that your statements of opinion are wrong, or that I'm trying to "convert" you as you've said before? Again, where in anything that I have posted do I even *imply* such things?

I'm sorry that my participation in this forum doesn't meet your standards of behavior. But they're your standards, not mine. If you don't like my posts, I, nor anyone else, is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read them.

Just put the mouse and keyboard down, and back away... deep breaths... deep breaths...


----------



## Woods Walker

I just hope it comes out soon. Then again ordering early from ZL can be a bad thing for fear of a better version a few weeks later or somekinda early production bug/flaw. On a side note we lost power in last weekend's storm and it could be two weeks before they get the lights on. Everyone ran for the hills (to family and friends with power) but when checking up on the house each day I bring the good old ZL501w. I will not EDC as it turns on way too easily and don’t like carry items which need to be locked out. I don’t find this an issue for backpacking or purpose driven usage. I wonder if the H502 will less prone to accidental activation? I also hope they can reproduce the H501’s 80 degree flood. It is one of the best beams for camp use or checking out a dark basement as was done today.


----------



## davidt1

Try gluing an 0-ring over the switch. This works wonder for my H51w to prevent accidental turn-on. This 1-miniute solution that will make the inconvenience of locking out the light unnecessary for as long as you own your light.


----------



## DIΩDΣ

B0wz3r said:


> The only fault I see in the 51 series clips is that they're not designed to be reversible. I know, you can flip it around, but there's no dedicated groove toward the head for it, so it can slip around.


I'm not sure what variations there are within the 51 series but my H51w does not sound like what you are saying. It has a dedicated groove on each end, both identically mirror each other. About the only position you cant do with it is bezel up and straight forward like out of a shirt pocket... you might be able to do it (havent tried) but the clip would block half of the bezel if you were going to try to use it in your pocket like that. I dont have any complaints with the clip except that the first couple times I took it on and off it scratched the anodizing... seems to have loosened up some now. Would be nice if it were stainless steel also, seen some rusty looking ones on here, I'll see how long mine lasts before it starts looking ugly. For headband wearers the clip can stay on the light with the Nite-Ize headband, btw.


----------



## Mr. Tone

Anybody heard of a release date here? I have Paypal locked and loaded for a neutral H502.


----------



## t0dy

Hi folks :wave:

I can't wait for this one to come out.
Only just got my first good flashlight, Fenix LD25, and I want something smaller and more versatile as well. Did a lot of reading here and understood ZebraLight would be perfect for me. Judging from beamshots and reviews I think I would love the true flood of H501w, but the efficiancy and the clip that comes with it aren't the best. Lens also prone to scratch. So I thought about the H51Fw. Think this is a really good light with good accessories, but with no true flood.
What it boils down to is that I have been on the verge of buying with H501w, H51Fw and later on also a normal H51w.
Just need to hold out a little longer :candle:


----------



## Gregozedobe

t0dy, If you are buying multiple lights for specific purposes I suggest you consider just buying a H502w and a H51w. That way you will have a nice even beam for close-up work and a conventional spot+flood light for seeing further away. If you want an inbetween light you can put a removeable diffuser film on the H51w to give a beam similar to the H51Fw, so it is more versatile.

Shock horror, a flashaholic not giving the standard advice "Buy them all, you know you want to :devil: "


----------



## t0dy

Thanks for the good tip Gregozedobe 
I'll have to consider the option of buying the H51w, if I think I need another "thrower" besides the LD25.
On-topic: do ZebraLight come out with release dates or do we just have to hope it will be out this November? 
I'm so excited! :huh:


----------



## Gregozedobe

AFAIK ZL sometimes miss their planned release dates. so you may need to be patient ......


----------



## Beacon of Light

I'm wondering if the H502 and H302 will be out before Christmas? Heck even their dedicated $39 Xmas Special light isn't on the horizon yet and Black Friday is only a few days away. ZL is REALLY missing an opportunity here to flood (no pun intended) the market with their lights for this buying season.


----------



## Zenbaas

Beacon of Light said:


> I'm wondering if the H502 and H302 will be out before Christmas? Heck even their dedicated $39 Xmas Special light isn't on the horizon yet and Black Friday is only a few days away. ZL is REALLY missing an opportunity here to flood (no pun intended) the market with their lights for this buying season.


+1. Even the Q50 which was slated for release last month already is yet to be seen. I've asked on their FB page about the SC5 but no response....disappointing.


----------



## HIDblue

Beacon of Light said:


> I'm wondering if the H502 and H302 will be out before Christmas? Heck even their dedicated $39 Xmas Special light isn't on the horizon yet and Black Friday is only a few days away. ZL is REALLY missing an opportunity here to flood (no pun intended) the market with their lights for this buying season.



+2. A pure flood H502 putting out 300 lms on a single AA? I'd buy that in a heartbeat...


----------



## ryguy24000

I have been patiently waiting for this light. Couldn't wait, so I ordered a Spark SD52 instead! Awww who am I kidding. I'll get a 502 too. Can you get one of everything?


----------



## Beacon of Light

right I was really hoping to buy one of the Q50s for Xmas but that will probably be stalled until well into 2012 knowing Zebralight.



Zenbaas said:


> +1. Even the Q50 which was slated for release last month already is yet to be seen. I've asked on their FB page about the SC5 but no response....disappointing.


----------



## moses

Was/Is going to my first zebralight. But they sure are slow after announcement.

The design is not that complicated. Wonder if someone like 4Sevens would capitalize on the pent up demand and design something similar in a wide reflectorless throw. They are very fast to the market it seems. 

Anyways, Zebralight are in Shanghai and when i was in China recently, saw some knockoffs. Did not pick any up as I was waiting for this unit but 'sorta' wish I had picked one up. 

Mo


----------



## davidt1

moses said:


> Was/Is going to my first zebralight. But they sure are slow after announcement.
> 
> The design is not that complicated. Wonder if someone like 4Sevens would capitalize on the pent up demand and design something similar in a wide reflectorless throw. They are very fast to the market it seems.
> 
> Anyways, Zebralight are in Shanghai and when i was in China recently, saw some knockoffs. Did not pick any up as I was waiting for this unit but 'sorta' wish I had picked one up.
> 
> Mo



It's worth the wait. This light is special because it has the small size and even flood beam of the H501 with the brightness of the XM-L.

Being the fastest one to the market doesn't mean anything. Zebralight has about 5 years of experience in making these lights. You can't duplicate/copy this experience.

I think there is a company called Ultrafire that makes cheap angled light. Reviews of their lights have been mostly negative.


----------



## ryguy24000

davidt1 said:


> It's worth the wait. This light is special because it has the small size and even flood beam of the H501 with the brightness of the XM-L.
> 
> Being the fastest one to the market doesn't mean anything. Zebralight has about 5 years of experience in making these lights. You can't duplicate/copy this experience.
> 
> I think there is a company called Ultrafire that makes cheap angled light. Reviews of their lights have been mostly negative.



I think for me anyway this what is so frustrating! They have the experience yet are taking so long to produce advertised results. They opened their mouth and haven't produced!!! I wonder if they are having trouble with heat in this light? XML is very powerful maybe too hot for the small 501 design???


----------



## varuscelli

ryguy24000 said:


> I think for me anyway this what is so frustrating! They have the experience yet are taking so long to produce advertised results. They opened their mouth and haven't produced!!!



I view the release dates a bit differently -- a bit more in line with davidt1's opinions. 

For the most part, I think that ZebraLight keeps their advertising to a minimum and rather subtly shares information via the Compare All Models chart on their site. Most of the noise that happens regarding their new lights takes place amongst those anticipating those products (i.e., those of us right here on the forum). It seems as though the majority of the commotion takes place here while ZebraLight keeps things on a more low-key level. 

I've said this before (as have others), but I'd rather have a glimpse into upcoming products via the Compare All Models chart and have to wait a bit for the new offerings than to have no idea at all of what's coming out until it those lights hit the streets. ZebraLight could easily choose not to share the Future Products on the publicly viewable chart. But in sharing, ZebraLight also takes frequent criticism for not meeting what seem to be nothing more than loosely projected release dates. 

And hey, I understand both the anticipation and impatience (realizing that anticipation and impatience are two very different things)...but my thoughts are in line with those who want to see ZebraLight get things right and release a good product rather than rush things just to get something out there. It's not like I have any insights in to perceived delays or their causes, but hey -- what's a couple of months here or there in the grand scheme of things?


----------



## FroggyTaco

This is such deja vu to was it just last year or the year before when 4 sevens was giving early release info and then if they didn't deliver on the exact day, there was an uproar over essentially nothing in the grand scheme of life.

Also I think it was in the SC600 thread that Zebralight already said that demand for the SC600 was higher than planned and they have kept that production running a lot longer than planned which has caused significant delays for the yet to be released models.


----------



## davidt1

First impressions of the tint of the SC600w have been very positive. This makes the wait for the H502w worth it.


----------



## t0dy

davidt1 said:


> First impressions of the tint of the SC600w have been very positive. This makes the wait for the H502w worth it.



Crap! Then I have to wait even longer! 

*Must get it out of my head for now*


----------



## Woods Walker

If it takes longer to do it right I don't mind. Still I want a H502 bad. Real bad.


----------



## tickled

I have had the pennies on hold for the Q50 and this for a very long time. I'm getting impatient!


----------



## davidt1

From thaugen at the SC600 thread regarding the tint of the SC600w:

"My SC600w arrived today and I am very pleased! Much nicer tint in my opinion than the SC600. Creamy white, no green or purple. A great light just got a whole lot better! Well worth the wait."

This is great news for those of us who are waiting for the H502w, but I am assuming Zebralight will use the same emitter they use in the SC600w, or something even better.


----------



## raphaello

Just checked the Zebralight comparison sheet and saw that the H502 is rescheduled for December.


----------



## js82

Judging from the updated sheet it looks like the H502 is the next light scheduled for release. I really hope they come out with it by December, and with the warm tint released simultaneously.


----------



## pjandyho

js82 said:


> Judging from the updated sheet it looks like the H502 is the next light scheduled for release. I really hope they come out with it by December, and with the warm tint released simultaneously.


That's good news, and I won't buy it unless it is the H502w.


----------



## qazx

the 18650 version h602 looks more interesting to me especially if its around 700 lumens


----------



## Outdoorsman5

Both of em look great. I'll prolly end up with one of each in neutral tint.


----------



## michman

The release date for the H502w is now TBD. The wait continues.


----------



## js82

pjandyho said:


> That's good news, and I won't buy it unless it is the H502w.



Me too.

I'm a little bit worried that the tint consistency from the center to the edge of the beam might be poor because of the XML's tendency to have a yellow side spill. Since this is a flood light the inconsistency might be more pronounced than lights that have a hotspot that the yellow side spill can be focused on.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Maybe the H50s will still be the be all end all floody headlamps if the XMLs screw with the normal nicelt tinted zebralight XP-Gs and before the XP-Es


----------



## davidt1

Zebralight has said that the size of this light will be between the H501 and H51. I hope it will be closer to the H501. Now that the H600 is out, the next light should be the H502.


----------



## michman

davidt1 said:


> Zebralight has said that the size of this light will be between the H501 and H51. I hope it will be closer to the H501. Now that the H600 is out, the next light should be the H502.



Sweet deal. I put my order for an H501w on hold to wait it out and get the specs on the H502w before I pulled the trigger on either. January 2012?


----------



## marcis

I do not see it mentioned anywhere yet, but zebralight has moved the H502 release date to december 2011 now. See the zebra comparison chart.


----------



## michman

marcis said:


> I do not see it mentioned anywhere yet, but zebralight has moved the H502 release date to december 2011 now. See the zebra comparison chart.



Min-Max lumens, size, and weight are nice, but I want to know the how the levels are going to be spaced, and the battery run times. Also, I am hoping that it has the smooth _look_ of the H501 more than the H51 finned look.


----------



## ryguy24000

JA(me)S said:


> "There will be an H502 (XM-L, <2.9"), slated for release in Q4 this year. The H50 has a negative meniscus lens. The H501 uses a positive meniscus lens. Both are made of polycarbonate. The H502 will use a plano-convex lens (optical grade glass, tempered, AR coated on both sides). We'll have a link to a google docs sheet in 1 or 2 days for all current and upcoming models."
> 
> From here.
> 
> - Jas.



Well here we are. Dec 2011. Well into the Holiday season. this thread was started on 05-02-2011. JA(me)S what's it gonna be 2011 or 2012?? I don't want an exact date just 2011 or 2012. common man??


----------



## Bolster

ryguy24000 said:


> JA(me)S what's it gonna be 2011 or 2012??



Is Ja(me)s still around? I thought he checked out around June of this year?


----------



## Beacon of Light

maybe that was the plan. Look at the buzz he created with all the new lights and some that are still backlogged. Isn't that what they call or used to call guerilla marketing?



Bolster said:


> Is Ja(me)s still around? I thought he checked out around June of this year?


----------



## ryguy24000

Bolster said:


> Is Ja(me)s still around? I thought he checked out around June of this year?



his last posts are in July.?


----------



## michman

My problem, as stated by tOdy:


> What it boils down to is that I have been on the verge of buying with H501w, ... and later on also a normal H51w.



The solution I think I will be choosing:



Gregozedobe said:


> t0dy, If you are buying multiple lights for specific purposes I suggest you consider just buying a H502w and a H51w. That way you will have a nice even beam for close-up work and a conventional spot+flood light for seeing further away. If you want an inbetween light you can put a removeable diffuser film on the H51w to give a beam similar to the H51Fw, so it is more versatile.
> 
> Shock horror, a flashaholic not giving the standard advice "Buy them all, you know you want to :devil: "



I still for some reason want to buy the H501w just because it is a known and my patience does not need to be tested for as long...


----------



## t0dy

michman said:


> I still for some reason want to buy the H501w just because it is a known and my patience does not need to be tested for as long...



Well, I'm an impatient guy, trust me on that  Since I started becoming interested in this whole thing about quality flashlights only a few weeks ago, I've bought:

1. Fenix LD25
2. Fenix TK41
3. 4sevens Preon Revo SS R2

Love them all!

...oh, and I also bought another Revo SS R2 and 2x Fenix E05, all these as christmas presents 

Anyway, I'm going to see if I can find some threads on where to find a good metal snap-on clip for the H501w. I want this one very much because I've seen the beamshots, tint comparisons and awesome recommendations. I guess it will soon go out of production? 
On the other hand, my guess is the H502w will be that much better than the H501w, that if I bought both I would rarely use the latter.

Decisions, decisions...


----------



## davidt1

It's December now. I hope to see pre-order info every time visit this thread.

The Fenix LD01 clip fits the H501 nicely.






It cost $1.50 here http://www.fenixgear.com/flashlight/Fenix_Accessories_Series.html


----------



## t0dy

davidt1 said:


> It's December now. I hope to see pre-order info every time visit this thread.
> 
> The Fenix LD01 clip fits the H501 nicely.
> 
> It cost $1.50 here http://www.fenixgear.com/flashlight/Fenix_Accessories_Series.html



Thanks for the tip! If anyone knows where to buy one of these with reasonable shipping to Sweden, please let me know! (fenix don't allow orders beneath $10 and I really don't need anything else from them)

And, being who I am, I just ordered a H501w to have while I wait for the H502w, which I think is going to take a while to come out


----------



## michman

Does anyone have an educated guess as to what the levels of the H502(w) will look like? Do you think that the medium mode will be moved to L2, and L1 becomes something of 40 lm. 

Here is my guess:

L2 - 0.2 lm
L1 - 2.5 lm
M2 - 15 lm
M1 - 40 lm
H2 - 100 lm
H1 - 300 lm ?? That's insane!

Any other guesses?

EDIT:
Do you think that Zebralight will be going for greater run times, or the same run times with higher lumens?


----------



## GeoBruin

I think we're looking at both, depending on how you look at it. Obviously the 300 lumens will be brighter than the high on the H51, but I'd be very surprised if we get .9 hours of 300 lumens. However, I'll bet H2 is somewhere between 100 and 150 lumens, and you only have to beat 2.4 hours to beat the H51 on H2 (100 lumens). I think that's realistic as well. 

The trouble is, we have nothing to compare this too. The only other XML lights ZL currently have are the SC600/600w and the H600. Those are designed to sustain much higher output at the top end. We just don't know how efficient ZL will be able to tune the driver to make the most run time with a high of only 300 lumens. Although, I think we can rest assured that whatever the best efficiency is, ZL will be pretty close. 

I'm super excited. I just wish the w version would come out at the same time. 



michman said:


> Does anyone have an educated guess as to what the levels of the H502(w) will look like? Do you think that the medium mode will be moved to L2, and L1 becomes something of 40 lm.
> 
> Here is my guess:
> 
> L2 - 0.2 lm
> L1 - 2.5 lm
> M2 - 15 lm
> M1 - 40 lm
> H2 - 100 lm
> H1 - 300 lm ?? That's insane!
> 
> Any other guesses?
> 
> EDIT:
> Do you think that Zebralight will be going for greater run times, or the same run times with higher lumens?


----------



## michman

Looking at the SC600, it has a step down after three minutes. I am willing to bet that the H502(w) will as well. Three minutes at 300 lm, then drop down to 180-200 lm. If this is the case, then I think the rest of settings that I guessed at might be the way it plays out. The current high of the H501 would become just less than the new H2.

Just my take on things.


----------



## Bolster

I'll bet it's nose to the grindstone at Zebralight, trying to get the new light(s) out in time for the Christmas rush.


----------



## michman

Bolster said:


> I'll bet it's nose to the grindstone at Zebralight, trying to get the new light(s) out in time for the Christmas rush.



No doubt. I really am looking forward to having one of those H502w in my paws. January? February? Should I just buy a H501w in the mean while?


----------



## pjandyho

michman said:


> No doubt. I really am looking forward to having one of those H502w in my paws. January? February? Should I just buy a H501w in the mean while?


You wouldn't regret a H501w. I have one and love it. Even though I bought a H51Fw, I still prefer using H501w most of the time. There's just something about the super smoothly flood without hot spot that is so appealing.


----------



## Mr. Tone

I currently have a H501w and now also a Spark SD-460NW. I can tell you that I definitely prefer the wider beam width of the Spark to the narrower 80 degrees of the H501w. I always kind of felt like I had tunnel vision with the narrow Zebralight beam. I am hoping for a wider beam in the H502w although I am sure some of you would rather it be the same 80 degrees. My guess for that beam width is because of the XR-E. Isn't that LED 80 degrees without any optics? 

Anyway, I can tell you guys that the Spark at the 200 lumen high is noticeably brighter than my Zebralight on high. The 460 lumen turbo setting on the Spark is visually brighter than the 200 lumen high but it is not a huge difference IMO. So if Zebralight can pull off 300 OTF lumens from a single AA that would be awesome!


----------



## michman

Are there any pictures of the H502 yet?


----------



## davidt1

After using the Quark Mini AA for a while, the H51w seems a bit big. And after using the Maratac AAA for a while, even the Quark Mini AA seems a bit big. None of these lights have an even flood beam with no hot spot and spill.

I want/need a small light with no hot spot and spill. The H502 is this light. While it won't be AAA size small, we have been told it will be smaller than the H51, possibly as small as the H501. Put in an efficient circuit and XM-L emitter with 300lms output and it comes pretty close to being my dream light on paper. 

Their list still shows Dec 2011 as the release date. Hopefully that will happen this month. If first impressions (I won't be the first to buy one) are positive, I might even buy the cool white version.


----------



## Beacon of Light

I'll be in for the H302 and H502 in cool white when they come out. I love my H31 cool white as it is a workhorse.


----------



## ryguy24000

I read this post again and it amazes me that 300 lumens is now a days "only" 300 lumens. That's a ton of light for a 1AA.


----------



## michman

Nice to see some action on this thread again... now when does the light come out?


----------



## Gregozedobe

It is still marked as "Dec 2011" on ZL's spreadsheet, so here's hoping it will be soon.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Is there anyone besides myself that prefers the older glow in the dark holders of the H30/H50/H50b/H501 series to the newer black rubber holders of the H31/H51 (and probably the upcoming H302/H502/H602)?


----------



## Bolster

Beacon of Light said:


> Is there anyone besides myself that prefers the older glow in the dark holders of the H30/H50/H50b/H501 series to the newer black rubber holders of the H31/H51 (and probably the upcoming H302/H502/H602)?



That's two of us.


----------



## Vernon

Beacon of Light said:


> Is there anyone besides myself that prefers the older glow in the dark holders of the H30/H50/H50b/H501 series to the newer black rubber holders of the H31/H51 (and probably the upcoming H302/H502/H602)?



I'll take one of each!


----------



## Beacon of Light

Does anyone know if the newer ZL headlamps fit into the older GITD holders?


----------



## psychbeat

Beacon of Light said:


> Does anyone know if the newer ZL headlamps fit into the older GITD holders?



Unless the OD is smaller on the lamp body. 
Those silicon holders stretch like crazy. 

I've crammed an L2P into my GITD holder for side mount.


----------



## Henry50

gosh, i wish they would just release it!!!


----------



## Bolster

The 502 was to be my Xmas gift from the family this year...the probability of that happening, decreasing by the day!


----------



## Mr. Tone

It sure looks like we won't see this until 2012. That is a bummer. I wonder what kind of problems they have encountered that it is taking this long to get worked out? Heat issues? Short runtime on high? UI bugs? If they can pull off the 300 OTF from a single AA I will be impressed. I am definitely looking forward to this in neutral white, whenever that actually happens.


----------



## Bolster

My persistent fantasy is that they realized they needed to thread the bezel, so went back to re-tool.


----------



## Gregozedobe

Mr. Tone said:


> It sure looks like we won't see this until 2012. That is a bummer. I wonder what kind of problems they have encountered that it is taking this long to get worked out? Heat issues? Short runtime on high? UI bugs?



I read somewhere that they were overwhelmed with demand for SC600s and so were flat-out building them to try to satisfy the demand. So there might not be any "problems" with the H502, just insufficient production capacity.


----------



## thaugen

I like the idea of the H502...but just ordered an H501 to tide me over while Zebralight works out any potential kinks with the H502.


----------



## Henry50

thaugen said:


> I like the idea of the H502...but just ordered an H501 to tide me over while Zebralight works out the "kinks" with the H502.



kinks? perhaps you could expand on this?

i knew they had issues with the early models, but not the newer ones?


----------



## thaugen

Henry50 said:


> kinks? perhaps you could expand on this?
> 
> i knew they had issues with the early models, but not the newer ones?



Sorry...I should have written "potential kinks"...I am a big Zebralight fan, but I had to return my first run SC600w because of a "kink" with the step-down feature. Past history has shown that Zebralight often has some bugs in the first run and makes improvements in the second run.


----------



## michman

thaugen said:


> I like the idea of the H502...but just ordered an H501 to tide me over while Zebralight works out any potential kinks with the H502.



I did the same.


----------



## Gregozedobe

thaugen said:


> ...... Past history has shown that Zebralight often has some bugs in the first run and makes improvements in the second run.



I'd agree that they often make improvements soon after the very first version is out in the real world and gets used. Of course sometimes not everyone prefers the "improvements"


----------



## t0dy

I too bought the H501w in wait for the H502w. I do not regret it.
This has the nicest tint I have seen this far, and the beam profile is wonderful. I can tell this is going to be my favorite, and I just got even more excited over the coming one!


----------



## varuscelli

thaugen said:


> I like the idea of the H502...but just ordered an H501 to tide me over while Zebralight works out any potential kinks with the H502.





michman said:


> I did the same.





t0dy said:


> I too bought the H501w in wait for the H502w. I do not regret it.
> This has the nicest tint I have seen this far, and the beam profile is wonderful. I can tell this is going to be my favorite, and I just got even more excited over the coming one!



I've got my eyes on the H502 and H502w also, but the H501/H501w are great lamps in their own right. I've had the H501w for about seven months now and it's definitely one of my most used and useful lights. I think an H501 version will also make a fine backup or alternate lamp for the H502, so if I end up with both I will most likely keep both (especially since the H501 will still likely be the most compact and light weight in its category, which is part of what makes it so desirable).


----------



## Henry50

thaugen said:


> but I had to return my first run SC600w because of a "kink" with the step-down feature..



oh? ok so i looked up the previous threads, it seems only 15 or so people were affected? did you have to pay to post it back?


----------



## thaugen

Henry50 said:


> oh? ok so i looked up the previous threads, it seems only 15 or so people were affected? did you have to pay to post it back?



I did have to pay for the return postage.


----------



## saypat

this is why I appreciate the communication of the developer of the Torpedo light. I think he thinks there are more than 24 hours in one day however!


----------



## ToyTank

I exchanged a few emails with zebralight just to see what would be available for christmas. No new models will launch for the rest of the year. SC600, SC600w, H600 likely all sold out but may get stock by next week. I ordered a SC51 I like my flashlights cooler and my headlamps warmer tints. H600W H502 likely January 502w later. I'm waiting for H502w. H501w is still my favorite all time light, although the H51c is growing on my more and more.


----------



## davidt1

Even though I am happy with my H51w and other small lights (use them as headlamps), I still want to see this light badly. The delay, in a way, works out for me. I already bought 3 lights this year, 1 more than I was supposed to -- yet still haven't found the perfect one. For my uses, the H502 will closer to being that perfect light than my current 3 lights, I think/hope.


----------



## Lite_me

I'll be getting one too. I love my 501w so I'm just gonna have to get one of these. I know I'll love it too.. or even more.


----------



## Bolster

ToyTank said:


> No new models will launch for the rest of the year...H600W H502 likely January 502w later.



Thanks for the detective work on this. I'll be waiting for the "w". Wish there was a "c".


----------



## Woods Walker

Oh well maybe next year.....


----------



## icedmocha

Are any vendors taking deposit on the 502 cool white? I need a new running lamp and this seems to be better than the h51 (which I can't find any vendors having in stock anyway),


----------



## davidt1

icedmocha said:


> Are any vendors taking deposit on the 502 cool white? I need a new running lamp and this seems to be better than the h51 (which I can't find any vendors having in stock anyway),



Since people are reporting that some of the current H models are out of stock, I doubt we will see the H502 anytime soon.


----------



## icedmocha

davidt1 said:


> Since people are reporting that some of the current H models are out of stock, I doubt we will see the H502 anytime soon.


Maybe ZL stopped h51 production? Or should I just buy a h51 when I can find one and not wait for 502?


----------



## varuscelli

icedmocha said:


> Maybe ZL stopped h51 production? Or should I just buy a h51 when I can find one and not wait for 502?



I think the shortage is due to holiday sales.


----------



## js82

Zebralight has updated their products list. The H502 is now scheduled for "2012". Chances are we won't be seeing it until late Feb at the earliest. Chinese new year is on Jan 23 so factories in China will not be producing anything for a few weeks. H502w will probably be even later unfortunately. Gonna have to wait 3 more months I guess.


----------



## pjandyho

js82 said:


> Zebralight has updated their products list. The H502 is now scheduled for "2012". Chances are we won't be seeing it until late Feb at the earliest. Chinese new year is on Jan 23 so factories in China will not be producing anything for a few weeks. H502w will probably be even later unfortunately. Gonna have to wait 3 more months I guess.


I remember the last time they seem to be closed for the whole month during Chinese New Year. My order was way delayed then I recall. It's good too, I really wanted one but I can cool down my expenditure for awhile.


----------



## applevision

js82 said:


> Zebralight has updated their products list. The H502 is now scheduled for "2012". Chances are we won't be seeing it until late Feb at the earliest. Chinese new year is on Jan 23 so factories in China will not be producing anything for a few weeks. H502w will probably be even later unfortunately. Gonna have to wait 3 more months I guess.


Thank you for this! It's nice to have an update after so much silence.


----------



## hook63

Maybe they'll show up after the shot show.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Does anyone know if any new Zebralights are debuting at SHOT going on now?


----------



## B0wz3r

Beacon of Light said:


> Does anyone know if any new Zebralights are debuting at SHOT going on now?


Guess we're just going to have to wait and see. I'm not in a hurry as I won't be doing much in the way of camping or the like until spring comes anyway.


----------



## js82

Now I'm kinda worried. I haven't seen a single flashlight/headlamp that runs the XM-L emitter on a single 1.5/1.2V source that has good runtimes at lower levels (equal to or higher than XP-G). I hope this isn't a problem for the H502.


----------



## Surnia

I know they have the XM-L slated for the H502, but I'm wondering if this will limit the possibility for a H502c?


----------



## evgeniy

ZebraLight, are you read this topic ?  What you can say about H502w release ?


----------



## B0wz3r

js82 said:


> Now I'm kinda worried. I haven't seen a single flashlight/headlamp that runs the XM-L emitter on a single 1.5/1.2V source that has good runtimes at lower levels (equal to or higher than XP-G). I hope this isn't a problem for the H502.


I just checked on the Spark ST5's, the 190nw and the 180ow, which use a T5 XML and an R4 XPG respectively, and they're almost exactly identical in run time and output.

190nw 180ow
190L / 0.9h 180L / 0.9h
100L / 1.8h 100L / 1.8h
36L / 8h 36L / 8h
10L / 30h 10L / 30h
2L / 86h 2L / 86h

The only difference is the slightly higher output on max of the 190.

I don't have an 180 to compare to my 190, but I imagine the 180 has a tighter hotspot and a bit more throw than the 190. For me it doesn't matter, as I always use the frosted lens in mine anyway.


----------



## evgeniy

>I just checked on the Spark ST5's, the 190nw and the 180ow

You may open datasheets - minimal differences between these LEDs , when it works low -middle power, XM-L works more efficient on 200 lm and higher.

But spectr of neutral white XM-L looks slightly better, than neutral XP-G.
And Zebralight say, that new dc-dc driver will work better.


----------



## B0wz3r

evgeniy said:


> >I just checked on the Spark ST5's, the 190nw and the 180ow
> 
> You may open datasheets - minimal differences between these LEDs , when it works low -middle power, XM-L works more efficient on 200 lm and higher.


You're missing the point. The question was whether or not the XML is as efficient at lower outputs as the XPG. Using the example of the two Spark lights above, it is. The question was not about efficiency at high outputs, but efficiency at low outputs.

There may be other lights that don't show this equivalence, but that would be a driver issue. Yes, spec sheets could provide some insight, but since when as ANY emitter ever performed exactly as indicated by the spec sheet? Circuit design, heat sinking, etc. all play important roles in the efficiency of an emitter. 

Your reference to spec sheets is a class example of engineering getting lost in the numbers and not paying attention to real world factors that affect performance. Engineers are always trying to build a better mousetrap, but in the process, they get lost and forget that what they're designing may be possible from an engineering standpoint, but is impossible to make, or once it is made actually doesn't work because the engineering demands require the entry to the mousetrap be behind some other part of the trap, therefore making the better mousetrap completely useless.


----------



## robostudent5000

B0wz3r said:


> Your reference to spec sheets is a class example of engineering getting lost in the numbers and not paying attention to real world factors that affect performance.





B0wz3r said:


> they're almost exactly identical in run time and output.
> 
> 190nw 180ow
> 190L / 0.9h 180L / 0.9h
> 100L / 1.8h 100L / 1.8h
> 36L / 8h 36L / 8h
> 10L / 30h 10L / 30h
> 2L / 86h 2L / 86h
> 
> I don't have an 180 to compare to my 190.



c'mon Professor. he relied on CREE's specs sheets for his post. you relied on Spark's marketing specs for yours. same difference. since you haven't compared a 180ow and a 190nw side by side, it's just theory for you too. 

and by the way, you weren't even in disagreement about the low current performance of the XML vs XPG. you both seem to think performance should be about the same


----------



## B0wz3r

robostudent5000 said:


> c'mon Professor. he relied on CREE's specs sheets for his post. you relied on Spark's marketing specs for yours. same difference. since you haven't compared a 180ow and a 190nw side by side, it's just theory for you too.
> 
> and by the way, you weren't even in disagreement about the low current performance of the XML vs XPG. you both seem to think performance should be about the same



Ah, it's all just... technicalities! :duh2:

I've got plenty of other lights that have XPG's in them... I'm just too lazy to get them out and do a side by side... 

In the end though, I think the moral of the story here is that it's different tools for different purposes. What's the old saying? When the only thing you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail? :devil: If you want something that's a marathon runner, get a vampire light. If you want something that's a burner, get a big gun. That's what I love about my Zebras... they can do both!


----------



## robostudent5000

B0wz3r said:


> In the end though, I think the moral of the story here is that it's different tools for different purposes. What's the old saying? When the only thing you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail? :devil: If you want something that's a marathon runner, get a vampire light. If you want something that's a burner, get a big gun. That's what I love about my Zebras... they can do both!



that's not the moral of the story. :ironic:

the question was whether the H502 with the XML will be as efficient at lower outputs on a single AA as Zebra's current 1xAA models are that use the XPG. different tool for different purposes was not the question. it was efficiency at low outputs for XML vs. XPG. 


B0wz3r said:


> The question was whether or not the XML is as efficient at lower outputs as the XPG.


see?
efficiency at low output comparisons between two emitters is independent of use considerations since what you use them for doesn't effect how well different emitters run at let's say 20mA. we're not talking about beam shape or tint or throw or anything else that matters when different uses are being debated. efficiency at low output is efficiency at low output regardless of your use. 

the real moral of the story is that if you tell someone that they're "missing the point" when in fact they're saying pretty much the same thing you're saying using references that are at about the same level of authority as the ones that you used, you run the risk of having that pointed out by even the lowliest of students like me. 

and in case you thought that your point and evgeniy's point were different, here's evgeniy's post again. 


evgeniy said:


> You may open datasheets - minimal differences between these LEDs , when it works low -middle power, XM-L works more efficient on 200 lm and higher.



"minimal differences between these LEDs, when it works low-middle power" that's pretty much what you said. 
"XM-L works more efficient on 200 lm and higher." you mentioned something similar as well. 

here's what you wrote again.


B0wz3r said:


> I just checked on the Spark ST5's, the 190nw and the 180ow, which use a T5 XML and an R4 XPG respectively, and they're almost exactly identical in run time and output.
> The only difference is the slightly higher output on max of the 190.



you said he was "missing the point":


B0wz3r said:


> You're missing the point.



but i don't really see that.

he said "minimal difference" up to mid output, you said "almost exactly identical" except for max, pretty much the same point
he said "more efficient on 200 lm and higher", you said "slightly higher output on max of the 190", pretty much the same point

see?

and as i mentioned earlier, he used Cree data sheets as his basis and you used Spark tech specs, which are probably about the same in terms of authority on this particular topic.


----------



## js82

robostudent5000 said:


> the question was whether the H502 with the XML will be as efficient at lower outputs on a single AA as Zebra's current 1xAA models are that use the XPG.



That's really my question. Thank you for stating it clearly and completely. I failed to mentioned in my post that I want to compare it to zebra's very efficient AA XP-G lights.


----------



## Gregozedobe

Seeing as none of these ZL lights are being direct driven it may well be the relative efficiencies of the drivers that makes more difference to run times at lower levels, not the difference in efficiency of the emitters. Given that they are made by ZL who are known for excellent driver efficiency but continually try to improve I hope that the H502 will be even more efficient than their existing single AA lights.

Testing once they are available will give a more definitive answer to the question, until then it is all speculation.


----------



## evgeniy

"XM-L Color Separation" 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?309724-XM-L-Color-Separation 

"All of the XM-L samples I have tested have the color separation over the viewing axis. "

If it's true - maybe, H502 / 602 with lens (instead on reflector) + XM-L isn't a good idea ?


----------



## robostudent5000

evgeniy said:


> "XM-L Color Separation"
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?309724-XM-L-Color-Separation
> 
> "All of the XM-L samples I have tested have the color separation over the viewing axis. "
> 
> If it's true - maybe, H502 / 602 with lens (instead on reflector) + XM-L isn't a good idea ?



H502/H602 should be fine. reflectors, especially smooth reflectors, amplify this effect. effect should be minimal, probably unnoticeable, with just a plano convex lens.


----------



## ryguy24000

WFT is a 602? Another imaginary light to be released in Q4 of this year? Kill this thread already!


----------



## psychbeat

The 602 is the cold fusion nano tech model made for spotting Chem trails and shadow people.


----------



## csshih

psychbeat said:


> The 602 is the cold fusion nano tech model made for spotting Chem trails and *shadow people*.


Just Because You're Paranoid, Doesn't Mean They're Not Out to Get You :devil:

Craig


----------



## B0wz3r

I'm going to hold off on a new headlamp for now. I'd love to have an H51fc, but I'm going to wait either for a 501c, or a 502w or 502c.


----------



## pjandyho

B0wz3r said:


> I'm going to hold off on a new headlamp for now. I'd love to have an H51fc, but I'm going to wait either for a 501c, or a 502w or 502c.


I am so addicted to the "c" version I felt inclined to wait for the H502c but I don't think there is any form of high CRI XM-L emitters in the market yet. Not sure if we will get to see one soon.


----------



## B0wz3r

pjandyho said:


> I am so addicted to the "c" version I felt inclined to wait for the H502c but I don't think there is any form of high CRI XM-L emitters in the market yet. Not sure if we will get to see one soon.


Hopefully they will do one... if not, there's always the XPG and the Rebel they could use instead. I wouldn't not buy one if it had a Rebel instead of an XPG or XML.


----------



## nuggett

Just thought I would chime in here. Been a ZB fan for a long time,own many, but they lost it dropping the pure flood for the reflectors and now delayed delivery for the 502 and 602. going Spark now.


----------



## Beacon of Light

you'll be back, wait and see.



nuggett said:


> Just thought I would chime in here. Been a ZB fan for a long time,own many, but they lost it dropping the pure flood for the reflectors and now delayed delivery for the 502 and 602. going Spark now.


----------



## Brasso

There aren't any high CRI xmls out yet, but the neutrals look pretty good. I have a Quark with their neutral xml in it and it doesn't seem to have any purple/yellow thing going on in the beam. Some people say it's a bit yellow/green, but I like it.


----------



## Woods Walker

Darn it doesn't sound good. On the up side I get to keep a bit of cash in my pocket.


----------



## davidt1

Are they still celebrating Chinese New Year or something? First quarter of 2012 is here and still no H502.


----------



## js82

CNY was more than a month ago. Maybe they encountered some of the technical problems that were mentioned in this thread.


----------



## Henry50

sigh, holding out for the 502, but can't wait for long.

Anyone know shipping times to Australia?


----------



## Samy

It's about 16-20 days if you order direct from zebralight. It's about 8-10 days from going gear.


----------



## varuscelli

davidt1 said:


> Are they still celebrating Chinese New Year or something? First quarter of 2012 is here and still no H502.



They're punishing you for sabotaging the Zebralight Mods thread. The lesson is, "Never deliberately mess with the content of a stickied reference thread." 

And hey, first quarter ain't over yet. I'd like to see the H502, too, but I'm not going to agonize over the release date. The release will happen when it happens -- and that's probably regardless of how much we complain about it here.


----------



## B0wz3r

At this point I think I'll probably just get an H51Fc as my next headlamp. Or if Spark comes out with a HCRI version of one of their all flood models.


----------



## Justintoxicated

Is this thing ever coming out? Really don't want to buy the rebel H51Fc, but I need something soon.


----------



## cajunhunter

How much better are the CRI over the Neutral White? I got the SD6-460NW and a am new to this but it seems to be much better than some of the cool light leds?


----------



## Justintoxicated

Neutral is much better than cool white, high CRI still renders better colors than neutral, and its a little easier on the eyes to me (speaking from owning from Cree High CRI preon). I have not seen the rebel High CRI, I would imagine its somewhere between the Cree High CRI and neutral, which sounds like a good balance to me, the light specs are considerably less, but still good enough for a headlamp for my use which is normally up close.

I haven't decided if it is "better" or not, certainly different though, if you need the brightness Neural is a good compromise.


----------



## Woods Walker

Not yet. Darn.....


----------



## Phos4

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I keep thinking' that this will be the best headlamps ever made by mankind. If these goofballs would actually get around to letting me give them good old AMERICAN DOLLARS to obtain it, that is. The size is my favorite for caving and the 1 AA eenlops are the best since they don't leak battery acid (which i have had in BOTH eyes on SEVERAL occasions, let me tell you---not fun!!!) You will need two of these babys for your head and for you pocket. Can anyone use facespace or mybook to see what the tomfoolery is all about?

"When you hear the sound off hoovebeats, don't think about Zebras! Ha!"


----------



## Henry50

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Phos4 said:


> If these goofballs would actually get around to letting me give them good old AMERICAN DOLLARS to obtain it, that is"



American Dollars? aren't they like Pesos?

Aussie Dollar is where it's at.


----------



## curry__muncha

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I recently asked Zebralight a question relating to the H502:

_Is there any plan in the future to release a red led version of your yet to be released H502?
Also, Do you have an approximate release date for the H502?_

This was their response:

_"Currently, we don't have such a plan, but we'll looking into that. _*
The H502 is about ready for production (3 weeks). Shipping starts in about 2 weeks after that."*


----------



## Gryffin

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



curry__muncha said:


> *The H502 is about ready for production (3 weeks). Shipping starts in about 2 weeks after that.*


----------



## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

So...available around the second week of May?


----------



## varuscelli

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Bolster -- it'd be nice to think so...but I'm not sure I'd plan any parties based on that date. :nana:

It would be pretty cool, though, if ZL feels it's ready to go. :thumbsup:


----------



## pjandyho

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I guess neutral white lovers would have to wait longer?


----------



## jabe1

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



pjandyho said:


> I guess neutral white lovers would have to wait longer?



I hope not. I've been waiting for this one, which will be my first ZL. I may even go against my gut and pre-order if a neutral is available.


----------



## varuscelli

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



pjandyho said:


> I guess neutral white lovers would have to wait longer?





jabe1 said:


> I hope not. I've been waiting for this one, which will be my first ZL. I may even go against my gut and pre-order if a neutral is available.



I haven't followed the entire history of ZebraLight releases, but from what I can recall -- and I could easily be wrong -- I don't think they've ever released their standard (cool) and neutral white versions simultaneously. I'm pretty sure there's usually some lag time between releases. And, hey -- they might not sell as many if they released two versions at the same time (which is a likely consideration).


----------



## vēer

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

So basically its more like around 2 months before we start to see user reviews?


----------



## pjandyho

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



varuscelli said:


> I haven't followed the entire history of ZebraLight releases, but from what I can recall -- and I could easily be wrong -- I don't think they've ever released their standard (cool) and neutral white versions simultaneously. I'm pretty sure there's usually some lag time between releases. And, hey -- they might not sell as many if they released two versions at the same time (which is a likely consideration).


That's what I thought too. I always wished manufacturers would release both versions together.


----------



## Justintoxicated

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Bummer, my vacation is may First, so they will be rolling back right after I get back from camping. Guess I'll have to get something else


----------



## B0wz3r

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



varuscelli said:


> I haven't followed the entire history of ZebraLight releases, but from what I can recall -- and I could easily be wrong -- I don't think they've ever released their standard (cool) and neutral white versions simultaneously. I'm pretty sure there's usually some lag time between releases. And, hey -- they might not sell as many if they released two versions at the same time (which is a likely consideration).


I don't ever recall seeing that happen either. There's usually a 2 - 3 mos. lag between cool and neutral versions; sometimes longer. I don't usually mind though, because by the time the neutral versions come out they've usually squashed all the bugs that might be present in the first run of cool tints. I personally would love to have a pure flood HCRI version myself; that would be sweet!


----------



## Changchung

I will wait longer for the W version.

Would regard you wait a while before ordering one to avoid receiving a faulty first batch?


SFMI4UT


----------



## varuscelli

Changchung said:


> I will wait longer for the W version.
> 
> Would regard you wait a while before ordering one to avoid receiving a faulty first batch?



In my opinion, that's the most wise thing to do. Not that I personally tend to do the most wise thing, though.


----------



## pjandyho

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



B0wz3r said:


> I don't ever recall seeing that happen either. There's usually a 2 - 3 mos. lag between cool and neutral versions; sometimes longer. I don't usually mind though, because by the time the neutral versions come out they've usually squashed all the bugs that might be present in the first run of cool tints. I personally would love to have a pure flood HCRI version myself; that would be sweet!


Have to agree with you on this. LOL, it's not like I have anything to disagree with you in the past. But anyway here's my experience...

When the SC600 first came out, I bought a couple of cool white runs from I believe is the 2nd or 3rd run. Though I don't face any problems with these lights, I do notice that the newer SC600w do spot some minor improvements. Two very noticeable differences are the inclusion of the lanyard ring attachment and a positive contact spring on the head. I don't really care about the lanyard ring as I don't use it, but the spring on the positive contact point is a real plus as it helps cushion the battery as well as the electronics from direct impact when dropped. I still like those cool white SC600 though but I wish I had bought it later after the improvements have been improvised. But looking at how much I love the SC600w, I may not even bother to get another cool white SC600 if I hadn't already.


----------



## Henry50

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

fantastic, at least we have an idea when it's going to be released


----------



## ryguy24000

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Ok I'll be the cynical one here. "I'll believe it when I see it" Really though. I wonder why it took so long? This thing could be very special or????


----------



## Changchung

varuscelli said:


> In my opinion, that's the most wise thing to do. Not that I personally tend to do the most wise thing, though.



My either... But I am trying... Sometimes is hard not to buy before others... 



SFMI4UT


----------



## B0wz3r

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



pjandyho said:


> Have to agree with you on this. LOL, it's not like I have anything to disagree with you in the past. But anyway here's my experience...
> 
> When the SC600 first came out, I bought a couple of cool white runs from I believe is the 2nd or 3rd run. Though I don't face any problems with these lights, I do notice that the newer SC600w do spot some minor improvements. Two very noticeable differences are the inclusion of the lanyard ring attachment and a positive contact spring on the head. I don't really care about the lanyard ring as I don't use it, but the spring on the positive contact point is a real plus as it helps cushion the battery as well as the electronics from direct impact when dropped. I still like those cool white SC600 though but I wish I had bought it later after the improvements have been improvised. But looking at how much I love the SC600w, I may not even bother to get another cool white SC600 if I hadn't already.


Hey PJ, thanks for the info. I've been wanting an SC600w but have held off so far for several reasons. This is good to know.


----------



## dealgrabber2002

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I looked at the spreadsheet regarding ZL new models. I don't recalled seeing the modes H502 has. How many modes does it have?


----------



## Woods Walker

varuscelli said:


> In my opinion, that's the most wise thing to do. Not that I personally tend to do the most wise thing, though.



Yea I don't pre order anything these days. Then again I might just roll over and die from old age before the H502 comes out so this post could be academic.


----------



## varuscelli

Woods Walker said:


> Yea I don't pre order anything these days. Then again I might just roll over and die from old age before the H502 comes out so this post could be academic.



I guess worst case is you preorder and pay and then die of old age before you get the headlamp.


----------



## Julian Holtz

Cool, I am definitely in for a H502 w.


----------



## js82

Zebralight updated their product comparison sheet. The H502 is now slated for release in May, and the w version in June. Funny thing is there are still many details lacking like min and max output, and weight. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if it's delayed again.


----------



## varuscelli

js82, I have a gut feeling that means they're actually really close to the actual release date. I don't think they would have updated it so specifically otherwise. Just my hunch, though.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Would be great to have the H502 soon!


----------



## marcis

I noticed the updated H502 Specs no longer say 300 max lumens. I wonder if Zebralight was not able to achieve that ???


----------



## DIΩDΣ

js82 said:


> Zebralight updated their product comparison sheet. The H502 is now slated for release in May, and the w version in June.



Sweet! Should be out in september then, got it. Thanks!


----------



## Woods Walker

DIΩDΣ;3935588 said:


> Sweet! Should be out in september then, got it. Thanks!



lol!


----------



## ToyTank

I wanted this for Christmas last year!


----------



## tickled

ToyTank said:


> I wanted this for Christmas last year!


 This and the Q50... maybe Christmas 2012...


----------



## Outdoorsman5

I've been looking forward to the release of this light more than any other. I bet it will have been worth the wait.


----------



## ToyTank

I have yet to not like a zebralight. I have 5 ZL here on my "flashlight table" and I have sold at least as many over the years. I just got my first Surefire Centurion C2. The true HA on them looks exactly like the "natural" anodizing the new zebralights have :twothumbs

I have the email announcing 9-19-2011 Q50 ready for pre-order in 2 weeks!


----------



## Changchung

This is my next light, I really want or need, I dont know, a AA XM-L light...


----------



## Changchung

I just receive this message from Zebra;

*Customer*
4/23/2012 10:06:56 PM 
Hi again, I am wondering when the H502 will be released? Thanks

*Staff (Administrator)*
4/30/2012 11:06:20 PM 
in May, 2012


----------



## f22shift

Changchung said:


> This is my next light, I really want or need, I dont know, a AA XM-L light...


is there any advantage of an xml? i'm not sure if it's driven hard enough to take advantage or if there is enough heatsink.

i'm looking forward to what comes out though. i lost my h501w and realized how useful it is.


----------



## psychbeat

Yah a Nichia 219 might be better for these low powered flood lights IMHO


----------



## dealgrabber2002

Does anyone know how many modes it has?


----------



## ToyTank

Datasheet says 10 modes.


----------



## Changchung

f22shift said:


> is there any advantage of an xml? i'm not sure if it's driven hard enough to take advantage or if there is enough heatsink.
> 
> i'm looking forward to what comes out though. i lost my h501w and realized how useful it is.



I think in xm-l for the flood factor...


----------



## Changchung

ToyTank said:


> Datasheet says 10 modes.



Maybe like the H600


----------



## psychbeat

Changchung said:


> I think in xm-l for the flood factor...



IDK - any emitter with a convex lens will be pure flood. Even XR-E

XML is probably SLIGHTLY more efficient at these low currents but has tint shift sometimes. 

If they were going much above 1amp the XML makes sense. 
Not sure how that would be practical or would be accomplished w single AA?

XPG still has more tint options. 
219 would be awesome IMHO

I hope it's smaller than the H51 and closer to the h501size


----------



## server

zebralight just posted these on facebook:
[url]http://imgur.com/a/5U25e

j[/URL]ust pics no info


----------



## marcis

server said:


> zebralight just posted these on facebook:
> http://imgur.com/a/5U25e
> 
> just pics no info



Holy heck... about time, gees! 

Looks like we will have the specs on this light any day now.


----------



## RedForest UK

Thanks, it looks quite 'stubby'. I think it'll grow on me though..


----------



## js82

They've updated the specs on the comparison sheet. 11 modes instead of 10, max of 260 lumens with no duration, min of .01 lumens for what looks like 3 months, and 1 ounce in weight.


----------



## romteb

LOOK MAA ! NO OPTIC ! (did not say no lens)

OR am i wrong ?

Edit: Duration at 260 lumens reads 0,9 hours in the spreadsheet, same as the SC51 at 200 lumens, substantial efficiency gains if true.


----------



## tony613

romteb said:


> LOOK MAA ! NO OPTIC !
> 
> OR am i wrong ?



EDIT: I misunderstood romteb's original post. He didn't mean reflector or lens, but optic as he typed. Sorry romteb. 


If you mean no reflector, then you're right. That's their all flood design. Plus this light has a new Zebralight interface, which includes their version of a battery charge indicator. 

From ZL's website:
*
Taking pre-orders. Shipping starts around May 28.
*


This light uses the main LED (flashing 1 to 4 times) to indicate the estimated remaining capacity of the battery. To start the battery indicator, (from Off) short-click 4 times without pause.
What's New:

Record breaking 260Lm ANSI from one AA Eneloop (more output with Energizer L91 lithium)
Record breaking 3 months runtime at min output (longer runtime with Energizer L91 lithium)
All levels are current regulated.
Battery indicator (LED flashes 1-4 times. 4 short clicks to start)
Programmable M2 and L2
Unibody design (similar to the H51, improved from the H501)
Recessed switch (improved from the H51 and H501)
11mm shorter than the H51 and 6gram lighter than the H51
GITD 'reflector'


----------



## varuscelli

Hey...it's even on pre-order now...must have changed status in the last half hour or so.


----------



## thaugen

This looks like a great light! Anyone else worried about pre-order/first run glitches? I was a bit burned by the SC600w pre-order last year...


----------



## applevision

I am so IN! Can't wait!


----------



## js82

Well, hallelujah. The h502 is finally on pre-order. Now the wait for the w version.


----------



## DIΩDΣ

Yeah I think I'm going to hold off for the W's, and maybe by then beamshots and any complaints and such will be out. Too bad they couldnt hit the 300L they originally were expecting, or I wonder if its just the difference with ANSI. I dont know for sure if they used ANSI before, but all the literature I had read on the models before always said OTF, not necessarily ANSI.


----------



## Bolster

No threaded bezel as I'd hoped. 

Still happy to see the H502 making it to market.

I wonder if this version will suddenly extinguish, or will it drop out of regulation (I hope), or will it at least step down? One of the big complaints of (at least some of the) H501s was its penchant to suddenly leave you in the dark when the cell was exhausted.


----------



## js82

DIΩDΣ;3941046 said:


> Yeah I think I'm going to hold off for the W's, and maybe by then beamshots and any complaints and such will be out. Too bad they couldnt hit the 300L they originally were expecting, or I wonder if its just the difference with ANSI. I dont know for sure if they used ANSI before, but all the literature I had read on the models before always said OTF, not necessarily ANSI.



Just a wild guess but I think it's more to do with the fact that they opted to not have a real reflector. Without a real reflector the nasty yellow side spill of the XM-L won't spoil the rest of the beam, but it also lowers the actual output. I'm hoping at least that the tint will be uniform.


----------



## zfmrchnt1

Just order the H51 last night, hope I dont regret the hastily purchase


----------



## davidt1

zfmrchnt1 said:


> Just order the H51 last night, hope I dont regret the hastily purchase



You won't. It's an awesome light.


----------



## davidt1

I am buying both the cool and w versions. The H502 is the H501 on steroid, but the size remains the same. It's another remarkable product from Zebralight.


----------



## davidt1

They also should make an H80 all flood light. The head of the H502/H51 is already huge compare to the battery compartment. Enlarging the battery compartment to accept CR123 batteries won't make the light much bigger, if any. 

Anyway, I will definitely buy one.


----------



## romteb

tony613 said:


> If you mean no reflector, then you're right. That's their all flood design.



I didn't mean reflector but optic as i wrote, the all flood design H501 actually has an optic (a polycarbonate positive meniscus lens),according to Zebralight prior statement the H502 was supposed to have an optic too ("a plano-convex lens optical grade glass, tempered, AR coated on both sides").

It looks to me after seing the pictures it only has a optically "neutral" lens (like in most flashlight) just to protect the led and make it waterproof.

Edit: The potential AR coating could play tricks here , mays be there is more than meets the eye...


----------



## psychbeat

Yah I was wondering if they'd use a convex optic or just go bare pickle like the spark. 

I'm kinda disappointed they're using the large H51 style head. 

Hmm I still might be in for a W or eventually a C when/if a single die hiCRI XML is released. 

In my dreams they would make a 501 with Nichia 219hiCRI in the small body. 
Or H50 style 
Heck I'd even take a twisty 
Sorry if OT. 
I just prefer the smaller size.


----------



## Gryffin

psychbeat said:


> I'm kinda disappointed they're using the large H51 style head.



Driving an XM-L to 260 lumens, they _need_ that big head — and all those fins — just to dissipate the heat.

Personally, I'm just fine with it. Now, to wait for the Neutral White edition...


----------



## cjay

Good to see they finally made it, but I'm a little bit disappointed by the large head, too. At that width, a 123 version makes much more sense to me. I'd instantly buy a 123 version with neutral white, or even better high CRI.
I'm positively surprised by the 120° angle compared to 80° of the h501w.


----------



## jmpaul320

this light looks interesting... i will wait for initial reviews before ordering... and you know there are going to be a few popping up in the marketplace shortly after orders are received


----------



## skyfire

very interesting indeed. been waiting a long time and honestly felt it was never going to happen.
im liking the design so far, i was never a big fan of the frosted lens of the other models.
.
it looks to be shorter than the current H51 models, with a body diameter that could fit a cr123. 
it would be great if it was designed similar to the sc80 to be used with AA and cr123.
doubt it would happen though because it seems to be optimized for nimhs


----------



## varuscelli

I envisioned myself jumping on this when it was available. 

Unfortunately, after getting the H600Fw, my spare change jar is still refilling. 

In the mean time, I'll eagerly await reviews.


----------



## RedForest UK

If you look at the positioning of the LED compared to the battery size it appears that the positive contact for the AA will be higher up than usual and in fact somewhere behind the LED itself rather than behind and below or just below as is normal. That seems like a clever maximisation of available space by zebralight to keep the length of the light down but also suggests that a CR123 version may need to be wider again if you want it shorter too. 

Some sort of spacer to fit on top of a CR123 to allow contact (along with a wider bored tube itself of course) could possibly allow a H80(2)? type version though.


----------



## Photonrunner

Not a fan of a 120 Degree beam, the 501 80 Degree beam was perfect.
Probably not going to appear any brighter than the 501 on max 
Will just have a larger beam diameter though. 

The super low modes are nice as well as the battery indicator, but was really hoping for something brighter than the 501.


----------



## psychbeat

Photonrunner said:


> Not a fan of a 120 Degree beam, the 501 80 Degree beam was perfect.
> Probably not going to appear any brighter than the 501 on max
> Will just have a larger beam diameter though.
> 
> The super low modes are nice as well as the battery indicator, but was really hoping for something brighter than the 501.



yeah I agree- Ive got 2 bare hiCRI XPGs in my bike light and the 120deg flood wastes a bit.
its wider than necessary IMHO. an optic woulda been pretty cool + unique.

not trying to hate on this light - who knows I may end up buying one if a hiCRI xml is released.


----------



## romteb

My thoughts too...it never felt to me like 80° was too narrow, the H501 was pretty much perfect except i sometimes wished it was a bit brighter, hence the anticipation for the H502, and the disapointment with the 120° (probably no optic) beam.


----------



## Beacon of Light

I'll be ordering one JUST for the idea it has a super long runtime on low. I didn't expect it so a wonderful surprise there is 3 choices for L2 (.34 lumen / .06 lumen / .01 lumen) 3 month of continuous use for .01 lumen. THIS is what I'm talking about! At least Zebralight gets it, and they get my money.


----------



## marcis

Beacon of Light said:


> I'll be ordering one JUST for the idea it has a super long runtime on low. I didn't expect it so a wonderful surprise there is 3 choices for L2 (.34 lumen / .06 lumen / .01 lumen) 3 month of continuous use for .01 lumen. THIS is what I'm talking about! At least Zebralight gets it, and they get my money.



I agree with you, I too am stoked with the Low runtime settings. 3 months for camping, hiking, or anything else is going to be absolutely amazing. A pro hiker could damn near do the entire Appalachian Trail with one AA battery if all they used was the 0.01 setting  Pretty amazing. 2 hours for 160 lumens, that is also wonderful, my spark SD-52 does 2 hours for 200 lumens with 2 AA batteries.. 160 is hardly any less. I honesty don't care if the beam is not my favorite the runtimes this light offers is plenty good enough a reason for me to pick this light up. I will surely be selling my Spark SD-52.

P.S. I own the H51F, and the Spark SD-52, and I still pick my zebralight over the spark nearly every time. Don't get me wrong the spark is a great headlamp, but for hiking, camping, fishing, plenty of other things, the zebralight is always better.


----------



## maitre

This is the light I've been waiting for... but in the meantime, I've already nabbed the H600w and SC600 so I'll be waiting for the h502w for sure. I'm not crazy about the design but I know I'll end up buying it anyway haha will give it a few months work out any initial issues..


----------



## Outdoorsman5

This light looks like a homerun! My H501w is among my all time favorite lights, and looks like the H502 is quite an improvement. No complaints from me on the specs. ZL is offering all of the things that make their lights top of the list in my mind -- using the new improved switch, has a pocket clip, new programmable M2 and L2, new battery indicator, 2 oz with a battery, 260 lm on a single eneloop, & 3 months runtime at .01 lm.........genius! With the output & runtimes alone, this light is possibly years ahead of the competition.


----------



## mobi

I use my Zebe's partly for visibility. 120 degrees increases visibility.


----------



## davidt1

romteb said:


> My thoughts too...it never felt to me like 80° was too narrow, the H501 was pretty much perfect except i sometimes wished it was a bit brighter, hence the anticipation for the H502, and the disapointment with the 120° (probably no optic) beam.



I, too, think the 80 degree beam of the H501 is very useful. The comments about the 120 degree beam being too broad have me worried a little. I don't think this is a case of Zebralight fixing something that wasn't broken. I don't think they are able to make an 80 degree beam out of this light. I thought I was going to be the first to buy, but I will now wait to read reviews before committing.


----------



## f22shift

after losing my most used light (h501w) i've been eager to see a replacement. perfect time to lose it hey.
i too will wait on a review. i was hoping for some sort of optic to concentrate the beam in an even flood. this might be a bare emitter which makes it appear lower in output. 
sort of the problem spark had with their bare emitter flood(SD series) but they have a reflector option now. this one will be bare permanently.
i can wait plus a warm version would be nicer.


----------



## Surnia

looking at the modes, the way to access medium seems a bit confusing... does it mean double click from off gives you medium, triple click gives you low again?


----------



## Outdoorsman5

Surnia said:


> looking at the modes, the way to access medium seems a bit confusing... does it mean double click from off gives you medium, triple click gives you low again?



That's how the rest of them work. Single click = high, Double click = medium, and Slow click = low. A Triple click also = low. You could also hold the button down, and it will cycle through low, medium, & high until you let go on the one you want.

Regarding the medium: I prefer holding the button down, so the light cycles from low then to medium. If you double click from off to get to medium then you are hit with a bright pre-flash (the light goes from high for a fraction of a second then to medium.) Just the nature of the UI, but is easy to work around. Still the ZL UI is in my opinion the best around.


----------



## psychbeat

actually this light has made me appreciate the smaller H501w - maybe some people will be selling theirs
when these come out and I can find a nice deal on one....

shoot me a PM anyone who has an extra H501W they wanna get rid of


----------



## rcyo88

Here's a pic from zebralight website of the H502 for a quick reference. Must buy...


----------



## moshow9

I once said I would not do pre-orders again, but I caved and hope to have one of these when they are released. I would prefer a w-version, but do not mind getting the cool white to check out. I may pass it off to a close friend for emergencies once the other variations are released.


----------



## Woods Walker

I liked the 80 degree flood of my H501 and H501w over the 120 (?) flood of my H50 as it makes things look flat. Kinda hard to explain not that I don’t like the good old H50. I will hold off for reviews and to see if there are any bugs or V2 models in a few weeks etc but given the low modes and crazy high on one AA in the end I will be buying one.


----------



## tobrien

so this is the AA variant, are the gonna update the H600(w?)?


----------



## Surnia

Outdoorsman5 said:


> That's how the rest of them work. Single click = high, Double click = medium, and Slow click = low. A Triple click also = low. You could also hold the button down, and it will cycle through low, medium, & high until you let go on the one you want.
> 
> Regarding the medium: I prefer holding the button down, so the light cycles from low then to medium. If you double click from off to get to medium then you are hit with a bright pre-flash (the light goes from high for a fraction of a second then to medium.) Just the nature of the UI, but is easy to work around. Still the ZL UI is in my opinion the best around.



The page is worded a little weirdly though, because it says holding it down goes from low to high, and I wasn't sure if it ONLY cycled low and high. I interpreted that to mean the only way to access medium was the double click...

otherwise if its the normal UI, then that's absolutely great!


----------



## jhc37013

Woods Walker said:


> I liked the 80 degree flood of my H501 and H501w over the 120 (?) flood of my H50 as it makes things look flat. Kinda hard to explain not that I don’t like the good old H50. I will hold off for reviews and to see if there are any bugs or V2 models in a few weeks etc but given the low modes and crazy high on one AA in the end I will be buying one.



I agree when I went to 80 degree with the H501 it felt better to me than the 120 degree of the H50, for some reason my brain just didn't like all that light in my peripheral vision. The 501 is the most useful light I have and I'm not talking just headlamps I'm talking all light's so I would be all over this and I was ready to hit the pre-order but now the 120 beam gives me pause.


----------



## BlueMarble

This is definitely the most exciting flashlight announcement in years! :thumbsup:

The H502 will be the perfect nightstand light with its ultra low mode and the glow in the dark piece! And that is only one of countless uses I can think of for this light. Excellent design, Zebralight!


----------



## bwm

I wear glasses. I remember with the H50 and its 120 degree arc output I had to use the rubber cover to block the light from hitting the inside of my glasses. I do not see any such device and with the heat generated by the led I do not see such a device as a practical add-on for the H502.

I will not be ordering right away. I am going to wait and hope that someone will comment on how the headlamp interacts with their glasses.


----------



## applevision

BlueMarble said:


> This is definitely the most exciting flashlight announcement in years! :thumbsup:
> 
> The H502 will be the perfect nightstand light with its ultra low mode and the glow in the dark piece! And that is only one of countless uses I can think of for this light. Excellent design, Zebralight!


+1! Ordered. We've been waiting a looong time for this. I'm very impressed by the description... agreed that the 120 degrees might be slightly less than optimal for some, but I'm going to pioneer this light and will report. Now we just need our Q50 to come out!


----------



## Beacon of Light

I also wish they would have used the 80 degree instead of 120 degree. I don't have a H501 but I would see it as being ideal having owned a H30, H50 and H31.


----------



## ryguy24000

50lm for 7.5 hours!? Wow


----------



## Bolster

Woods Walker said:


> I liked the 80 degree flood of my H501 and H501w over the 120 (?) flood of my H50 as it makes things look flat.



The spread of the beam shouldn't flatten things. The "flattening" effect of the H50 the result of that light's less-than-ideal tint. That earned it complaints about "flattening," which is how people generally describe the lack of certain colors being rendered accurately.

For example, a bare incan lightbulb has a beam spread well over 270 degrees, and it doesn't "flatten" anything. 

For the record, I've never noticed the H50 with its 120 beam has ever caused me trouble with glare, either with or without the rubber hood. 

Looks like there's a social trend developing to dislike the 120 degree beam. I for one will enjoy it. I could use the extra peripheral vision when working. Sure, 80 is fine, and it concentrates more of the power forward, but I certainly won't be complaining about 120. For me, that would be like complaining about being too rich or too thin.

At the same time, the H501 was a special and unique light, and clearly the H502 won't duplicate all its charms. 

If Zebralight had made a threaded bezel (as I campaigned for a year, and lost) this would not be an issue; they could've made extra money by selling a concentrating lens to people who wanted a 100, 80, 60, and other angles of beam, or could have sold colored filters to give just the custom tint people wanted. 

But clearly I'm not in the Zebralight development team. Still, very happy about the H502.


----------



## skyfire

my H501w is still one of my favorites, its also the only zebralight i still have, and have been looking for brighter headlamp for a long time.
the h502w might be the first non-usa made light i buy in over a year.

i welcome the 120 degree spill. there have been times where the 80 degrees on my h501w was not wide enough. maybe im lazy, but i dont like having to adjust/rotate the light again and again.

the runtimes on this light seems amazing! maybe thats why zebralight has taken so long to release it? now its release is upon us, and i think its well worth the wait.


----------



## psychbeat

Im wondering if there will be much percieved increase in brighness over the 501?
Id assume most of the extra light will just be the addtional spill area.


----------



## nzbazza

Now all I want is the same electronics to be placed into the H51w so we can have the H52w...:devil:


----------



## Photonrunner

psychbeat said:


> Im wondering if there will be much percieved increase in brighness over the 501?
> Id assume most of the extra light will just be the addtional spill area.



Will probably depend on where/how the light is used. In a confined room there may be a lot of reflection of the spill light from walls/objects. In an open area like outside extra spill will likely be lost into the darkness. I would expect less through than the 501 outside. I enjoy using my 501 for running as you don't see a bouncing hot spot, yet it has enough through to see far enough ahead. I would expect the 120 degree angle to quickly dim as you get farther away. Would probably be ok for up close stuff, but wouldn't expect to be able to see too far ahead if the light is evenly distributed over a 120 light cone. 

In short I would expect it to excel in up close confined areas. Would expect it to perform poorly as an outdoor light were you need to see any distance ahead of you other than your immediate surroundings. For the second reason I don't think it will perform well as a head lamp for running as the 501 does.


----------



## Bolster

Photonrunner said:


> Would expect it to perform poorly as an outdoor light were you need to see any distance ahead of you other than your immediate surroundings. For the second reason I don't think it will perform well as a head lamp for running as the 501 does.



Agreed. This is a specialty headlamp, and fits with ZL's philosophy of "a different light for each purpose." This is not a trail-running or bicycling light. It'll excel for working stiffs such as myself who are crawling around in attics and crawlspaces. And for reading in bed. 

But pretty much every floody light gets criticized for being floody (based on past commentary I've been reading on CPF), so I expect to hear a lot of bellyaching that the H502 is not the H51F, or that it doesn't throw, and so on.


----------



## Photonrunner

Bolster said:


> Agreed. This is a specialty headlamp, and fits with ZL's philosophy of "a different light for each purpose." This is not a trail-running or bicycling light. It'll excel for working stiffs such as myself who are crawling around in attics and crawlspaces. And for reading in bed.
> 
> But pretty much every floody light gets criticized for being floody (based on past commentary I've been reading on CPF), so I expect to hear a lot of bellyaching that the H502 is not the H51F, or that it doesn't throw, and so on.



No problem with ZL's philosophy of speciality headlamps, however the 502 is most likely not a good replacement for the 501 in a lot of situations. ZL is discontinuing the 501 series (the 502 is supposed to replace the 501) leaving those with a need for a 80 degree beam of even light in a compact/light package zero options. No problem with floody lights at all, but find a more directional flood beam more versatile/useful, especially when used as a headlamp where it's automatically directed along your line of sight.


----------



## varuscelli

Bolster said:


> Agreed. This is a specialty headlamp, and fits with ZL's philosophy of "a different light for each purpose." This is not a trail-running or bicycling light. It'll excel for working stiffs such as myself who are crawling around in attics and crawlspaces. And for reading in bed.
> 
> But pretty much every floody light gets criticized for being floody (based on past commentary I've been reading on CPF), so I expect to hear a lot of bellyaching that the H502 is not the H51F, or that it doesn't throw, and so on.



That's one of the more sensibly balanced statements I've read in the last couple of days. 

The H502 is going to be what it is, is not going to be what it isn't. A lot of what it can and can't do probably shouldn't be judged until actual copies are in the hands of users who can provide feedback and beamshots to the rest of us. 

It seems to me that ZebraLight is doing a good job of trying to cover a broad spectrum of user needs with various lamps, and the H502 should be nice for meeting the specific needs of certain users...and it should provide quite a variation from the norm. If it doesn't cover everyone's wish list by not being what they wish it was, I'm sure another ZL lamp will come along soon enough to fill in whatever gaps there are for those users. 

Regardless, I'm anxious to see what people have to say about performance once the H502 starts shipping.


----------



## pjandyho

I really wish a H502w would be available soon with tint just like the H501w. I never really liked the tint of my H51w and SC600w that much. They are ok but I still prefer the more magenta warm look of the H501w.


----------



## RedForest UK

I think due to the position of the LED being relatively much further from the user's forehead than the H50 will mean much less glare from the LED's beam than the H50. However, the stainless bezel looks as if it could easily contribute to glare from the portion of the beam reflecting of the far side of it directly into the user's eyes..

We'll have to wait and see.


----------



## Outdoorsman5

skyfire said:


> my H501w is still one of my favorites.........i welcome the 120 degree spill. there have been times where the 80 degrees on my h501w was not wide enough. maybe im lazy, but i dont like having to adjust/rotate the light again and again....



I agree with you skyfire. Love my H501w, but I think I would rather have a wider beam than occasionally having to rotate the light up or down because of the 80 degree beam. Not a big deal, but think the 120 degree beam would be more useful to me. 



Photonrunner said:


> ...I would expect less through than the 501 outside...



You may be right, but even though it's not made for throw I think that due to the increase in output of this light that it will throw slightly better than the H501 (through brute force....96 lumens vs 260 lumens.) Just seems logical that it would reach out a little further even with the wider beam angle. I've seen this with some other lights that were brighter & floodier than their predecessors (Quark AA2 with the R5 LED vs. the Quark X AA2 with the XML LED.) 

These are just educated guesses for now, and we will all know for sure once they start shipping.


----------



## travinc

well i've just ordered one- looks like the best camping light yet! hopefully i'll find out in around a months time....


----------



## DIΩDΣ

Surnia said:


> The page is worded a little weirdly though, because it says holding it down goes from low to high, and I wasn't sure if it ONLY cycled low and high. I interpreted that to mean the only way to access medium was the double click...
> 
> otherwise if its the normal UI, then that's absolutely great!



I can see the confusion if you've never operated a ZL. 

Quick clicking goes from high to med to low (1 click = high, second quick click will step it down from high to medium (sometimes referred to as a double click), and third quick click will step it down from medium to low) and pressing and holding goes from low to med to high.

One trick to avoid the preflash in the dark if you want to go straight into medium is to just close your eyes for a brief second while you double click. Unless your multitasking, you dont really need to see while you double click, and it only takes like a tenth of a second.


----------



## skyfire

pjandyho said:


> I really wish a H502w would be available soon with tint just like the H501w. I never really liked the tint of my H51w and SC600w that much. They are ok but I still prefer the more magenta warm look of the H501w.



i have always felt that way too, the neutral tints of past XR-E and XP-E, to my eyes was more pleasant with more magenta. while the XP-G and XM-L neutrals i would see hints of green. lucky for me i love the hCRI XP-G though.
i cant remember for certain, but i think the reason why i sold my H51w, was because i felt the tint was too cool. :shrug:


----------



## tychoseven

Do want! But I'm going to wait for the w version. I love that the moonlight low is now programmable.

Let's see, we have the H600, SC600, and upcoming Q50, H502, T3/T5, and S6330. 

Zebralight is _killing _it. I'm saving my pennies because I want everything in the pipeline.


----------



## Smells_Familiar

The H502 plus my Fenix HP-10 sound like a fantastic combo for caving!

It's amazing how fast lights are becoming more efficient these days.


----------



## Photonrunner

Outdoorsman5 said:


> I agree with you skyfire. Love my H501w, but I think I would rather have a wider beam than occasionally having to rotate the light up or down because of the 80 degree beam. Not a big deal, but think the 120 degree beam would be more useful to me.
> 
> 
> 
> You may be right, but even though it's not made for throw I think that due to the increase in output of this light that it will throw slightly better than the H501 (through brute force....96 lumens vs 260 lumens.) Just seems logical that it would reach out a little further even with the wider beam angle. I've seen this with some other lights that were brighter & floodier than their predecessors (Quark AA2 with the R5 LED vs. the Quark X AA2 with the XML LED.)
> 
> These are just educated guesses for now, and we will all know for sure once they start shipping.




I just did the math and realised I am wrong. Did the calculations for an 80 degree even beam and a 120 beam. 
The 502 will be brighter despite the wider angle. It would be roughly the equivalent of an 180 lumen 80 degree with extra spill. To get the same 80 lumen brightness of the 501 you would set the 502 to 111 lumens (100 is close enough) and you get 3.3 hour's so it would be a longer runtime with the same brightness as the 501. 

I retract my previous concern, as it should be both brighter and have a longer run time at the 501 max brightness. This should be an improvement in most areas, but may see less run time at comparable beam intensities for the lower lumen settings. I may end out trying one of these out for running, should be interesting.


----------



## srfreddy

It's been a long time since I've posted, but I've always kept an eye on the Zebralight Product Sheet, and the very close release date of the H502 prompted me to come back to CPF for a quick read of this thread. lovecpf About the light density of the H502 vs H501, the 120 degree beam will have 4.26 times less light density at all distances >at the emitter. The H502 is _only_ 2.7 times brighter than the H501, so the light density of the H502's beam will only be 64% of the H501's. However, the H502's light circle will be 4.26 times larger than the H501's. :thumbsup: I'm pretty sure I did my math here right, but could be wrong. There is also the difference in the optics type to consider as well, though.


----------



## Woods Walker

Bolster 

I never had a bare incan bulb on my head so can't say if it makes the world look flat. Flat is the only term I can come up with but doesn‘t express it 100%. I have other lights with less than ideal tints but don't get the same feel as I do with the H50's 120 flood. Granted my H501w with XR-E 5A is well known in the tint world as something that just rocks, hence the reason for more signature about the TK20. Even the cooler white H501 is a nice vanilla white rather than the greenish (on lower modes) H50. After some time my brain would forget about the less than desirable tint but the little bit-o-funky world feel with the 120 flood was always in the background. 

Maybe the 80 degree optic of the H501 would project light farther or maybe it allows me to focus on an object better or maybe it is the tint after all but the feeling is still real just the same. Now this isn't to say the H50 is a bad light or the H502 having the same 120 is. Preference isn't the same thing as a show stopper. I actually liked the twisty and UI of the H50 over the H501 but not by much. 

Could also be that I wanted a light just like the H501/H501w but updated, kind of like I wanted an EX11 or D10 but just with an updated LED etc. By the time that company worked out many people wanted the same it was too late but this is a story for another time. I guess the bigger head was needed and must speculate the 80 flood optic of the H501 was just beyond the XM-L or ZL’s ability to do so. There must have been some reason why ZL made the H501 with a 80 not 120 but maybe not? What do I know. LOL! Well if the reviews are good guessing none of the above will matter because I want one in a “w” tint.


----------



## ryguy24000

the release of this light must be the most anticipated, maybe, ever? I am going to hold out for the neutral tint version. This light may replace my SD52 as my primary work light? The run times are in direct competition with the SD, but with only one battery. How can they do that? Amazing.


----------



## varuscelli

ryguy24000 said:


> the release of this light must be the most anticipated, maybe, ever?



I think it's a close second (in terms of headlamps) to the H600.


----------



## Mr Floppy

srfreddy said:


> It's been a long time since I've posted, but I've always kept an eye on the Zebralight Product Sheet, and the very close release date of the H502 prompted me to come back to CPF for a quick read of this thread


I'm the same, well in that every time I hear a Zebralight is about to ship I head back to CPF. 
So that's a HL51c, SC80 and possible H502w on my shopping list.


----------



## js82

skyfire said:


> i have always felt that way too, the neutral tints of past XR-E and XP-E, to my eyes was more pleasant with more magenta. while the XP-G and XM-L neutrals i would see hints of green. lucky for me i love the hCRI XP-G though.
> i cant remember for certain, but i think the reason why i sold my H51w, was because i felt the tint was too cool. :shrug:



I've been looking for XM-Ls with 3D or 4A tints. Those tints should have more magenta like you described. I haven't found any yet though. All of them seem to be 3C, which is more green as you'll see on the tint curve.


----------



## Esko

srfreddy said:


> About the light density of the H502 vs H501, the 120 degree beam will have 4.26 times less light density at all distances >at the emitter. The H502 is _only_ 2.7 times brighter than the H501, so the light density of the H502's beam will only be 64% of the H501's. However, the H502's light circle will be 4.26 times larger than the H501's. :thumbsup: I'm pretty sure I did my math here right, but could be wrong. There is also the difference in the optics type to consider as well, though.



H502 doesn't have any collimator. I believe you didn't remember that the light intensity (spatial distribution) is not constant to every direction. It is highest straigth forward, and drops to ~50% at 60 degrees (120 degree beam). There might also be some extra losses in the periphery due to reflections from the glass.

There is no collimator. If they chose to use 80 degree beam, it would have just meant a tighter collar and the light from the extra spill would be lost. It could be collected with a collimator, but then the light wouldn't quite be a pure flood light any more, and the body would be longer, too (maybe as long as H51). With current design, I believe there is no space for a quality reflector or lens.

For the ones with glasses... I sometimes carry my H51Fc on my neck even though it does need some adjustment every now and then. The wider angle Spark SD6 doesn't need. Being a floodlight with even wider beam, I believe this would be even better for the purpose.



tychoseven said:


> Do want! But I'm going to wait for the w version. I love that the moonlight low is now programmable.



I would love to have an ability to choose 2 moonlight modes. The difference between 0,01 lumen and 0,34 lumen is huge, it is bigger that the difference between M2 and H1 (12 lumen and 260 lumen). I would probably choose 0,06 lumen because with 0,01 there is just a too big gap to the next level (L1 = 2,7 lumen). On the other hand, there is nothing better in the market now (and the runtimes are incredible), so... Let's see when they bring the w (and hopefully c) model to the market.


----------



## RedForest UK

Woods Walker said:


> XR-E 5A is well known in the tint world as something that just rocks, hence the reason for more signature about the TK20.



I never noticed that in your signature. Did you do it after seeing mine or come to the same conclusion separately? It is very true though, (especially for walks in the woods!) I can't believe they discontinued it. We could get some sort of movement going and if we get enough CPF signatures saying the same thing they might consider bringing it back again 

Actually though, on a side note, I just got some Nichia 219 92 CRI 4500k LEDs from Craig at illumination-supply this morning and they are honestly the best tint I have ever seen, probably the first to knock the XR-E 5A tint off it's perch. Now if Fenix would remake the TK20 with a Nichia 219 4500k 92 CRI and a specially designed light OP reflector + square threads on the head to body connection I would happily buy 3 of them, and I never buy more than one of the same light..


----------



## curry__muncha

For those who want a more narrow 80 degree spread could simply get the frosted lens version of the H51.

Im really hoping they make a RED led version of this light. It would be the ULTIMATE tail light for a bicycle


----------



## lampeDépêche

curry__muncha said:


> Im really hoping they make a RED led version of this light. It would be the ULTIMATE tail light for a bicycle



is there a red XML available? one in the pipeline?

I got the red H51r for exactly this purpose, and it *is* an awesome tail-light. Plus, the L-shape makes it very easy to attach to the vertical stays that connect my rack to the rear drop-outs.


----------



## romteb

curry__muncha said:


> For those who want a more narrow 80 degree spread could simply get the frosted lens version of the H51.



beams of the H501 and frosted H51 are really different.


----------



## tychoseven

Esko said:


> I would love to have an ability to choose 2 moonlight modes. The difference between 0,01 lumen and 0,34 lumen is huge, it is bigger that the difference between M2 and H1 (12 lumen and 260 lumen). I would probably choose 0,06 lumen because with 0,01 there is just a too big gap to the next level (L1 = 2,7 lumen)...



It would be great to choose both moonlight modes, but I'm happy we'll be able to choose at least one! I'll probably go with the 0.06lm mode as well...0.34lm is still bright if there's no other light. 



> On the other hand, there is nothing better in the market now (and the runtimes are incredible), so... Let's see when they bring the w (and hopefully c) model to the market.



I'd love an H502 with a Nichia 219 (4500K, 92CRI). After seeing beamshots of this emitter I want it in all my lights.


----------



## Mr Floppy

tychoseven said:


> I'd love an H502 with a Nichia 219 (4500K, 92CRI). After seeing beamshots of this emitter I want it in all my lights.



I'll be happy with a H501 housing a Nichia 219 if it fits. Or the XR-E 5A


----------



## curry__muncha

lampeDépêche said:


> is there a red XML available? one in the pipeline?
> 
> I got the red H51r for exactly this purpose, and it *is* an awesome tail-light. Plus, the L-shape makes it very easy to attach to the vertical stays that connect my rack to the rear drop-outs.



There is no red XML LED by Cree to my knowledge. If they were to make a red LED one, i assume they would use the same LED as the one in their other current red lights - the XPE (which is plenty sufficient for most people's red illumination purposes).

Was the H51Fr out when you bought your H51r? Wouldnt the frosted version make for a better tail light due to brighter side-beam spread without a significant centre hotspot?
This is one of the main reasons im waiting it out to get the H502r (which they hopefully do release) - largest angle of visibility without any hot-spot to shoot into other road users' eyes


----------



## Woods Walker

RedForest UK said:


> I never noticed that in your signature. Did you do it after seeing mine or come to the same conclusion separately? It is very true though, (especially for walks in the woods!) I can't believe they discontinued it. We could get some sort of movement going and if we get enough CPF signatures saying the same thing they might consider bringing it back again
> 
> Actually though, on a side note, I just got some Nichia 219 92 CRI 4500k LEDs from Craig at illumination-supply this morning and they are honestly the best tint I have ever seen, probably the first to knock the XR-E 5A tint off it's perch. Now if Fenix would remake the TK20 with a Nichia 219 4500k 92 CRI and a specially designed light OP reflector + square threads on the head to body connection I would happily buy 3 of them, and I never buy more than one of the same light..



I seen your sig and just knew more were needed. LOL! I think the XP-E 5A in my Quark AA is also very nice but gotta say hiking with those XR-E 5As in the TK20 and H501w works well for me. I am going to hold off for the w H502 as this will give time for people to sniff out any bugs and won't get on the wrong side of any early V2 models as we seen in he past. Or maybe I will break down and get a standard one if there isn't any of that squid **** green going on. Then again for some reason I am not jumping for joy as was expected. Not sure why however? Still I want it but now thinking about an XM-L reflector version with he same stats. Could be like the TK20 the H501w still rocks.


----------



## lampeDépêche

curry__muncha said:


> ...If they were to make a red LED one, i assume they would use the same LED as the one in their other current red lights - the XPE...
> This is one of the main reasons im waiting it out to get the H502r (which they hopefully do release) - largest angle of visibility without any hot-spot to shoot into other road users' eyes



Ahh...I see. I sort of think of the "502" designation as meaning an XML emitter, but I suppose one could think of it as the body configuration and the circuitry, regardless of the emitter. Yeah, that would be a pretty incredible package--very efficient, wide-angle red light. I'd buy it!

I bought the non-frosted H51r because I wanted the option of throw for other purposes, and I figured I can always put diffusers on. Sure enough, the glass diffuser disk from the 4Sevens prism kit makes a good diffuser when I want one.

But I also don't mind having throw on the rear of the bike. I ride on a lot of country roads, and I want cars to see me a long distance back. And it is mounted low, near the chain-stay, so when they get up closer it should not be right in their eyes. 

In addition, I have a Quark RGB mounted at rack-level, for a much wider-angle hot-spot-free red light. Visibility is a life-saver!

Sometimes I joke that I have all those red photons pouring out the back in order to give myself a forward propulsion boost. They're not just safety lights, they're photon rockets! The trouble is that I have a TK 35 on the front handle-bars, pushing me backwards....


----------



## Esko

tychoseven said:


> It would be great to choose both moonlight modes, but I'm happy we'll be able to choose at least one! I'll probably go with the 0.06lm mode as well...0.34lm is still bright if there's no other light.



Oh, I don't care about the programmability. I just wish the modes were a bit more equally spaced. The low and firefly modes could be spaced with tenfold increases (or perhaps a little more). With high modes the battery life becomes more important, so, the increases could be smaller. If I could choose those 6 modes freely, I would forget one of the medium modes and go with 0,01 - 0,34 - 2,7 - 25 - 100 and 260 lumen.

I wish someone offered a light with two firefly modes (and the threaded bezel that Bolster has been suggesting would be a good idea, too). But it is a very nice headlamp anyway. I will still be waiting to see if they announce a Nichia version.


----------



## Beacon of Light

I normally wait for the reviews before buying a new one, but I couldn't resist and ordered the H502. I put a note to include the GITD holder as I prefer it over the plain black silicone holders.


----------



## brianb6603

I have been watching ZL for months waiting for the H502. I would like to have a warm version but am not willing to wait. Ordered on friday. I did the same thing with my H51, could not buck up the patience to wait for the warm version. I carry it with me everywhere I go.


----------



## moshow9

curry__muncha said:


> Was the H51Fr out when you bought your H51r? Wouldnt the frosted version make for a better tail light due to brighter side-beam spread without a significant centre hotspot?
> This is one of the main reasons im waiting it out to get the H502r (which they hopefully do release) - largest angle of visibility without any hot-spot to shoot into other road users' eyes


I would also recommend the H51Fr. Before that was out I used a H501r attached to my pack when I went cycling. I was excited to hear about the H51r when it was set to release, but disappointed when I received it. Not that it is a bad light as it isn't, it just wasn't the right light for what I inteded to use as a tail light.

I sold it off and bought up the H51Fr as soon as it came out. It's attached on my pack just below my H501r and puts out a lot more light. I'll see if I can find a picture in a bit. 

*Both on L2*






*Both on max*




*
Wall shot, H501R on top, H51Fr on bottom*





That said, I still would pick up an H502r as well.


----------



## lampeDépêche

moshow9 said:


> ...I was excited to hear about the H51r when it was set to release, but disappointed when I received it....I sold it off and bought up the H51r as soon as it came out....



moshow--did you mean for both of those to say "H51r"? 

Or for the first one (the disappointing one) did you mean to say "H501r", and then the H51r is the one you like?

Or was the first one the H51r clear-lens, and for the second one you meant to say "H51Fr" for the floody lens?

Thanks for pics!


----------



## moshow9

lampeDépêche said:


> moshow--did you mean for both of those to say "H51r"?
> 
> Or for the first one (the disappointing one) did you mean to say "H501r", and then the H51r is the one you like?
> 
> Or was the first one the H51r clear-lens, and for the second one you meant to say "H51Fr" for the floody lens?
> 
> Thanks for pics!


Thanks for that catch . I meant that I love the pure flood of the H501r, and diffused beam of the H51Fr. H51r is a great light, but just not for me.


----------



## Bolster

moshow9 said:


> *
> Wall shot, H501R on top, H51Fr on bottom*



Doublecheck? You say the H501r is on top? To my eye the beam on the lower left looks like the H501r.


----------



## moshow9

Bolster said:


> Doublecheck? You say the H501r is on top? To my eye the beam on the lower left looks like the H501r.


Yup, placement on the pack has the H501r on the top where the shoulder strap begins, attached to the pals webbing. Initially, I was going to use the H51Fr to completely replace the H501r but did not like the way the H51Fr attached in that same area. I left the H501r on top, completely cut off the bottom clasp (the front pocket is loose and will swing open if flipped upside down) and attached the H51Fr on the receiver (or female) end of the clasp with its holder and zip ties.

For the photo I held the bag with the upper handle (in the same orientation as it would be when I am riding).


----------



## Bolster

So...the H51Fr has a wider and smoother flood beam than the H501r? Wow.

I own an H501r and I didn't think you could get a wider or more even beam from a 51F.


----------



## curry__muncha

Moshow9, if you were to pick just one out of the H501r or H51Fr, which one would you prefer as a tail light?
PS. Thanks for the pics! 

Bolster, the H501r has the more wider and smoother beam. It's because the H51Fr's beam from the reflector that on the wall shot it shows up as a larger circle compared to the H501r


----------



## lampeDépêche

curry__muncha said:


> Moshow9, if you were to pick just one out of the H501r or H51Fr, which one would you prefer as a tail light?



Me, I only own the H51r, so I can't make the judgment from personal experience.

But to go by the numbers on the website, the H501r has a High of only 33 lumens (for 2.4 hours) versus a high of 95 lumens for the H51Fr. Even if you drop the H51 down to H2 in order to get 2.4 hours out of it, it is still putting out 57 lumens to the H501's 33. 

So 2.4 hours of 33 lumens vs. 2.4 hours of 57 lumens? I think I'd probably go with the H51.


----------



## moshow9

curry__muncha said:


> Moshow9, if you were to pick just one out of the H501r or H51Fr, which one would you prefer as a tail light?
> PS. Thanks for the pics!
> 
> Bolster, the H501r has the more wider and smoother beam. It's because the H51Fr's beam from the reflector that on the wall shot it shows up as a larger circle compared to the H501r


If I had to choose between only one it would be the H51Fr. For me, more output = higher visibility, and I prefer to be as visible as possible when it's dark out.


----------



## Bolster

curry__muncha said:


> Bolster, the H501r has the more wider and smoother beam. It's because the H51Fr's beam from the reflector that on the wall shot it shows up as a larger circle compared to the H501r



Yeah, if the H51Fr is considerably brighter, then it would appear to have a fuller beam in the same photograph as a H501r, which is essentially "underexposed." Makes sense.


----------



## calipsoii

brianb6603 said:


> I have been watching ZL for months waiting for the H502. I would like to have a warm version but am not willing to wait. Ordered on friday. I did the same thing with my H51, could not buck up the patience to wait for the warm version. I carry it with me everywhere I go.



H502w is supposed to be released in June, according to ZL when I asked them yesterday.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Neutral in June is great news!

But can I wait that long....

I have been thinking about getting a cool-white for the front of my bike--even if Neutrals are better for seeing, I think the cool-white is better for *being* seen; it's brighter, and also slightly more jarring and unnatural. Attention-getting, which is what you want when you are trying to avoid becoming bug-splat on a truck windshield.

So I could get the cool-white on May 28...get the Neutral in June...and get the Red XRE if they ever make it....

Huh-boy! There goes my budget!


----------



## Beacon of Light

I wonder how far away the H302s are? I'd prefer one of those more than the H502 even. The H502 will tide me over until they do.


----------



## srfreddy

Esko said:


> H502 doesn't have any collimator. I believe you didn't remember that the light intensity (spatial distribution) is not constant to every direction. It is highest straigth forward, and drops to ~50% at 60 degrees (120 degree beam). There might also be some extra losses in the periphery due to reflections from the glass.
> 
> There is no collimator. If they chose to use 80 degree beam, it would have just meant a tighter collar and the light from the extra spill would be lost. It could be collected with a collimator, but then the light wouldn't quite be a pure flood light any more, and the body would be longer, too (maybe as long as H51). With current design, I believe there is no space for a quality reflector or lens.


Yeah, I've been "out" for too long... :shakehead Knew that about the light distribution. However, the H502 has a lens, as do the H501 and H50.
"There will be an H502 (XM-L, <2.9"), slated for release in Q4 this year. The H50 has a negative meniscus lens. The H501 uses a positive meniscus lens. Both are made of polycarbonate. The H502 will use a plano-convex lens (optical grade glass, tempered, AR coated on both sides)."


----------



## Outdoorsman5

calipsoii said:


> H502w is supposed to be released in June, according to ZL when I asked them yesterday.



This is good news....and it's been confirmed. I checked their website, and the neutral version is now listed on Zebralight's "Compare All Models" page as being released this coming June.....nice.


----------



## jhc37013

16 pages on a light that's not even out yet and a headlamp to boot, wow. Then again I can see why I think ZL makes the best light's in the world and despite the fact the beam angle isn't my favorite the 502 may still end up on my doorstep.

I say it's a headlamp but I feel I should almost add a disclaimer saying ZL headlamps can be used as a handheld if someone doesn't already know that.


----------



## Esko

srfreddy said:


> However, the H502 has a lens, as do the H501 and H50.
> "There will be an H502 (XM-L, <2.9"), slated for release in Q4 this year. The H50 has a negative meniscus lens. The H501 uses a positive meniscus lens. Both are made of polycarbonate. The H502 will use a plano-convex lens (optical grade glass, tempered, AR coated on both sides)."



You are right. The lens wasn't very obvious in the photo, so, I thought that a pure flood light has only a glass to protect the emitter.

I wrote to ZL customer service and got to know, that there will be a Rebel high cri version available later (no date specified). I also suggested that they could consider and check the Nichia 219 4500K high cri emitter, which is loved by many flashlight enthusiastics that are interested in color rendering. The CS person replied that they have tested it, but at least she didn't know about any plans to use it in the lights yet.


----------



## strinq

Just curious, do they have any plans for a H52?
Can't find the specsheet, sorry.


----------



## Outdoorsman5

strinq said:


> Just curious, do they have any plans for a H52?
> Can't find the specsheet, sorry.



It's not on their list of future lights...........yet. I'm hoping for it, and bet they will make a H52 and a SC52. Since a H52 is not on their list it would seem to me that they want to get the new T5 out before any other single AA light...just guessing though. Here's a link to there list of lights including future lights that are currently planned - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...authkey=CNqP6KIC&hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC#gid=0


----------



## Bolster

Esko said:


> there will be a Rebel high cri version available later (no date specified).



That's welcome news!!


----------



## strinq

Thanks Outdoorsman5.


----------



## vēer

Outdoorsman5 said:


> It's not on their list of future lights...........yet. I'm hoping for it, and bet they will make a H52 and a SC52. Since a H52 is not on their list it would seem to me that they want to get the new T5 out before any other single AA light...just guessing though. Here's a link to there list of lights including future lights that are currently planned - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...authkey=CNqP6KIC&hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC#gid=0


H52 would be welcomed upgrade, however month or two ago their rep told me that there are currently no plans or information regarding H52.


----------



## lampeDépêche

by "H52" do you mean a hypothetical upgrade of an H51, using an XML emitter?

I can't speak for the ZL folks, but to my way of thinking the H51 is intended to be a more throwy, spotty light than the 501/502 line is. And an XML, because of its larger die size, would make a much less throwy, spotty light than the current XPG does. It would produce something half-way between the current H51 and the new H502.

The new H502 uses the XML for exactly the right purpose, to my way of thinking: flood. In a small light which doesn't have a deep, wide reflector, it's best to use the XML for what it's good at (same as the Quark MiniX, which has a wonderful floody profile).

So in any case--I guess I'm not surprised that they don't plan to stick an XML into the H51. I hope that they'll upgrade the H51 at some future time, but I don't know that an XML version would be a good addition to their product line. (Unless they kept offering the H51 as it is, too--then I wouldn't say no to more options).


----------



## RedForest UK

lampeDépêche said:


> It would produce something half-way between the current H51 and the new H502.



I think that is exactly what many of us want


----------



## srfreddy

RedForest UK said:


> I think that is exactly what many of us want


The output of the H502, with the reflector of the H51.... :thumbsup:


----------



## nzbazza

When I think of the hypothetical H52, I'm imagining the H502 circuit with the H502 body and H51 reflector and XPG LED.


----------



## Diablo_331

I don't think you"ll mind me adding "SC600 switch" to your list as well. Now this makes it my perfect light. Throw the XPG away and give me a Nichia 219 and I'm set... Forever.


----------



## icedmocha

ordered!


----------



## RedForest UK

I don't think the H502 body would work with a reflector as the battery has to go in behind the LED. That is how they made it shorter.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Did someone say

*Shipping starts around May 28.

*...?

I'd love to get a "just shipped" notice in my email today!!


----------



## jhc37013

lampeDépêche said:


> Did someone say
> 
> *Shipping starts around May 28.
> 
> *...?
> 
> I'd love to get a "just shipped" notice in my email today!!



It's a holiday so I don't think anything is going to move in the US today, I know the Post Office is closed for Memorial Day.


----------



## poonchasta

I can't wait for mine to get shipped. I'm sick of holding a flashlight in my mouth when I'm working with both hands, especially since I now EDC a SC60 and it's a little heavy for mouth carry. I like the big 120 degree spill because I can clip it to my shirt and still see what I am doing even if the light isn't pointing directly at what I'm working on. This will be my first all flood flashlight, and I think I'm going to love it.


----------



## Bolster

srfreddy said:


> The output of the H502, with the reflector of the H51....



Not for me. I'm jonesing for that full flood bright H502, just as they designed it.


----------



## travinc

I got my shipping notice last night (im in Australia) its in the mail !!!


----------



## poonchasta

travinc said:


> I got my shipping notice last night (im in Australia) its in the mail !!!



When did you place your preorder?


----------



## travinc

poonchasta said:


> When did you place your preorder?


I preordered on the 13th of may


----------



## bbb74

Anybody else notice the updates to the zebralight spreadsheet overnight?

There's a 502c (rebel 4000K), 502d (rebel 5000K), and 502w (xm-l 4200K) coming in June. Haven't heard of the 502d before this!

The 502d and 502w have me very interested...


----------



## moshow9

I just got my shipping notice too!


----------



## Surnia

bbb74 said:


> Anybody else notice the updates to the zebralight spreadsheet overnight?
> 
> There's a 502c (rebel 4000K), 502d (rebel 5000K), and 502w (xm-l 4200K) coming in June. Haven't heard of the 502d before this!
> 
> The 502d and 502w have me very interested...



The 502d is VERY interesting....

*edit* looking at luxeon spec sheets, 5000K Rebels look like the ES... We should be getting some reasonable outputs with the higher CRI as well!

anyone have a 4000 vs 5000 vs 6000k comparisons? >_>


----------



## poonchasta

What does the "d" stand for? 
I preordered on May 22nd so I probably won't get mine for a while. I wonder how big their first batch was compared to the number of preoders they had.


----------



## Surnia

could be for "daylight", or a play on "d" being after "c"...


----------



## MountainVoyageur

poonchasta said:


> What does the "d" stand for?
> I preordered on May 22nd so I probably won't get mine for a while. I wonder how big their first batch was compared to the number of preoders they had.



Probably "daylight". The comment column for the 502d says


> high CRI, 5000K 'Daylight' color temperature


----------



## Diablo_331

I really enjoy the tint and beams of both my h51c and sc51c so this new H502c model is a must buy for me.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Will the high cri Luxeon Rebels have anywehere near the runtime on low that the XPG or XMLs have?

Also I keep hearing about Nichia 219 and when I think of Nichia I think back to my first headlamp which was a River Rock 2xAAA from Target. The Nichia in that thing was angry blue and the runtime wasn't that impressive. Has the Nichia 219 gotten better with efficiency at all? Is it ready for prime time in 2012-2013?


----------



## Esko

bbb74 said:


> Anybody else notice the updates to the zebralight spreadsheet overnight?
> 
> There's a 502c (rebel 4000K), 502d (rebel 5000K), and 502w (xm-l 4200K) coming in June. Haven't heard of the 502d before this!
> 
> The 502d and 502w have me very interested...



502d :huh::twothumbs 



Beacon of Light said:


> Will the high cri Luxeon Rebels have anywehere near the runtime on low that the XPG or XMLs have?



If they are given the same current at roughly the same voltage, I believe the runtimes should be pretty close to each other. The differences in efficiency will be seen in lumen ratings.



Beacon of Light said:


> Also I keep hearing about Nichia 219 and when I think of Nichia I think back to my first headlamp which was a River Rock 2xAAA from Target. The Nichia in that thing was angry blue and the runtime wasn't that impressive. Has the Nichia 219 gotten better with efficiency at all? Is it ready for prime time in 2012-2013?



It is specifically Nichia 219 4500K 93 cri emitter that people are talking about. A very nicely colored neutral white high cri emitter which (AFAIK) has been used in some expensive custom flashlights before. It is not blue at all (a bit rosy maybe) and the best bins are rated at 110 lumen per watt.


----------



## varuscelli

bbb74 said:


> Anybody else notice the updates to the zebralight spreadsheet overnight?
> 
> There's a 502c (rebel 4000K), 502d (rebel 5000K), and 502w (xm-l 4200K) coming in June. Haven't heard of the 502d before this!
> 
> The 502d and 502w have me very interested...



The H502d at 5000K does indeed look interesting. I think there are bound to be folks who would like something between the typical 4200K and 6300K offerings. 

First I guess we should see how the initial H502 release performs, but I have to say that ZebraLight must be confident in it in general to already be listing so many other soon-to-be-released versions.


----------



## Bolster

bbb74 said:


> There's a 502c (rebel 4000K), 502d (rebel 5000K), and 502w (xm-l 4200K) coming in June...



This is interesting for another reason, too...it shows that Zebralight is directly targeting the enthusiast market. Look at all the relatively fine gradation of tint they are offering for the afi's. When 99% of the population is at the "that shore is bright" stage, with no awareness of tint. 

It also shows that Zebralight is aggressively pursuing their model of "a different light for every possible purpose." This signals to me that I should never hope for a threaded bezel with beam modification. Zebralight's method is to make a different model to match any need. Sells more lights, I suppose.


----------



## lampeDépêche

"ZLH502 H502 AA Flood Headlamp Cool White"
"This email confirms that your order was Shipped."

yippee!

But wait a second--how come they didn't ship my H502c, H502d, and H502w as well? 

After all, I want all of those, too! 

What--I have to wait until they manufacture them??

Inadequate customer service--they should use telepathy for ordering and telekinesis for delivery!


----------



## Zeruel

5000K would be perfect for me. All too often I feel manufacturers' "neutral" is more warm white than not, H502d will be something cool (no pun intended) to look forward to.


----------



## gunga

Great news. It's time for me to get a few more zebras.


----------



## gunga

Ugh. Double post.


----------



## mobi

The 502 has landed -- on my doorstep. I can't write much now, though.

Strangely enough, the glow-in-the-dark reflector does just that.

As expected, the white of the light is pure without a hotspot, the edge of the beam is more defined than with the 501, and the high is significantly brighter.


----------



## moshow9

And it has arrived! Please forgive my quick, bad, photos:

First picture has both H501w and H502 on moonmode (0.01 lumens on H502).














Quick notes: The only negative (for me) is the clip. I am not a fan of the new clip-on clips. That aside, I think this is a great successor. I know some were concerned about getting flashed in the eyes when wearing it on the headband..while ymmv, I am able to wear it without issue. Of course, that will be a problem for anybody else who may face you. I appreciate the 120 degree spread as it provides a larger coverage to what's immediately in front, down, and to the sides.

A quick note on the battery indicator: It is not specified in the instructions but this feature is accessed from OFF. From off, complete 4 short clicks without pause, as stated in the instructions. This will cycle from high to medium to low to off. The led will then flash 1-4 times and is said by Zebralight to be an estimate on the remaining capacity of the cell. 4 would indicate high cell capacity, with 1 being low.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Pretty nice looking. I'll probably be getting mine on Monday. Sure looks a lot thicker diameter wise. Looks about as round as the H31 that takes CR123s. I wonder if they will use an even larger diameter body for the H302?


----------



## skyfire

thanks for a size comparisons moshow.
the h501 and h502 looks to be the same size in height, but ive seen another pic that shows the h502 was about half an inch shorter.
either way, its still very compact :thumbsup:

im really looking forward to the non-cool versions to come out. been looking for a successor to my h501w for a long time now.


----------



## Changchung

The H502 is ready to shipp from USA check the cpfmarket place in the dealer section.


SFMI4UT


----------



## moshow9

Beacon of Light said:


> Sure looks a lot thicker diameter wise. Looks about as round as the H31 that takes CR123s.





skyfire said:


> the h501 and h502 looks to be the same size in height, but ive seen another pic that shows the h502 was about half an inch shorter.
> either way, its still very compact :thumbsup:


It sure did beef up sum. Diameter wise, it does seem reminiscent of a CR123 light. The only one I have in a comparable size (and I just received today thanks to bee-man) is a Olight i1. The tailcap to the H502 is slightly larger in diameter as it flares out a tiny bit around the edges. Body wise, the H502 is slimmer (due to AA cell). In height, even though my poor pictures didn't show it, the H502 is only a tad shorter.


----------



## Benzan

here is first look video


----------



## server

More HQ photos and videos pls !   Can't wait for full review.


----------



## yifu

Looking great! Zebralight always combines size, runtime and efficiency in a way that no one else does. Will be looking to get one of these soon.


----------



## KDM

Got mine today, i also like the glow in the dark reflector. No need for the ugly glow in the dark holder.


----------



## hank

What would the 502c and 502d (Phillips Rebel emitter) be like, are those out also?
and there's a 602 forecast already at the bottom of the 'compare everything' list


----------



## davidt1

I don't know about that girly, gimmicky glow in the dark thing.


----------



## psychbeat

I like girls...

Rebel versions should be interesting. 
Curious why they didn't go with Nichia.


----------



## Beacon of Light

dude, you've been posting about a successor or how much you think the H501 is the perfect light for ages. Just suck it up and buy the H502. Where else or who else will have an improvement on the H501 other than Zebralight? You're going to let glow in the dark inside the non reflector stop you from buying one? You being CPF's very own "_*Mr. H501*_" I'd be surprised you'd be hemming and hawing over GITD. I bought 2 and I've never owned an H501, so I'd expect with you being Mr H501, you'd have an order for 12 already in the works.



davidt1 said:


> I don't know about that girly, gimmicky glow in the dark thing.


----------



## ulfheonar

hes right about the gitd reflector , its totally useless , they could have place there a real one , even if not deep. im waiting for the w or d model btw .


----------



## Mumbojumboo

Wow! This thing is small.




mumbo H502 size by mumbojumboo, on Flickr


----------



## lampeDépêche

come Monday, I should be able to answer this question myself, when my order arrives.

Till then, I'm curious: why is the battery tube so large in diameter? And are the walls solid? If so, they must be quite thick, and thus heavy.

Perhaps part of the thermal protection strategy??

Will the tail-cap from this screw onto the tail-cap from an H51? If so, then perhaps the battery-tube is not really that much bigger in diameter--it just looks that way, perhaps because it is shorter.


----------



## tickled

I want to see what the tint of the Rebel 5000K looks like against the XM-L 5000K. I'm not sure I like the GITD thing. It seems to add a slight greenish cast on my E03.


psychbeat said:


> I like girls... Rebel versions should be interesting. Curious why they didn't go with Nichia.


 Isn't the Nichia even lower output than the Rebel?


----------



## Beacon of Light

How easy is it to remove the clip without scratching the anodized finish? I do not like clips like this that press on and wear down the finish. Why can't Zebralight use clips like the SC51 which screws on without the clip touching the anodized finish at all?







Why can't ZL incorporate the clip like this for all their headlamps? Seems like a no brainer to me.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Beacon of Light said:


> Why can't ZL incorporate the clip like this for all their headlamps?



Maybe because that would make it too hard to slide the body into the round holes of the silicon holder on the headstrap?

I agree with you about preferring the screwed-on clip, though.

And I also think that their anodizing is one of the things that ZL does least well. Brilliant engineering in lots of other respects, but their anodizing is thin and soft--no reason for it to be so thin and soft in this day and age.


----------



## Beacon of Light

I was assuming that you have to remove the clip if you want it in the holder. Granted, I never use the clip as I always keep my headlamps in the holder. I say this being an owner of an H30, H50, H50B and H31


----------



## davidt1

Beacon of Light said:


> dude, you've been posting about a successor or how much you think the H501 is the perfect light for ages. Just suck it up and buy the H502. Where else or who else will have an improvement on the H501 other than Zebralight? You're going to let glow in the dark inside the non reflector stop you from buying one? You being CPF's very own "_*Mr. H501*_" I'd be surprised you'd be hemming and hawing over GITD. I bought 2 and I've never owned an H501, so I'd expect with you being Mr H501, you'd have an order for 12 already in the works.



I love my H51w, and the H501 before I lost it. Of course I am probably going to buy the H502, but I will tell it like it is. If it sucks, I will say so without hesitation. 


Anyway I am looking forward to reading your review of the H502.


----------



## ulfheonar

anyone has some pictures of the output taken outdoors ?? I need compare with my princeton tec quad how it does .


----------



## Lite_me

Benzan said:


> here is first look video
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_AnMe8uLuNY


The worst thing about this video is seeing you put an Alkaline battery in there! :whoopin:

Otherwise, nice job.


----------



## KDM

This is the 51 and 502.
https://picasaweb.google.com/111327...hkey=Gv1sRgCLu7zq7-zpfuKA#5749742824983375218


----------



## Helmut.G

Lite_me said:


> The worst thing about this video is seeing you put an Alkaline battery in there! :whoopin:
> 
> Otherwise, nice job.


haha, I thought the same thing 
love eneloops. hassle-free, high power and I know a place that sells them cheap.


Does anybody know the CRI of the d version?


----------



## Gregozedobe

Is the switch on the H502 stiffer than the one on a H501 ? (ie less likely to be turned on accidentally leading to "hot-pocket" syndrome)


----------



## moshow9

Gregozedobe said:


> Is the switch on the H502 stiffer than the one on a H501 ? (ie less likely to be turned on accidentally leading to "hot-pocket" syndrome)


It may be a tad stiffer than the H501 but not as stiff as the SC600 (don't have a H500 so cannot compare with that one). Even so, this should not be a problem as the switch is recessed.


----------



## Bolster

Beacon of Light said:


> You being CPF's very own "_*Mr. H501*_" I'd be surprised you'd be hemming and hawing over GITD.



I take exception to this post! I thought *I* was Mr. H501. No? Well then I claim "Mr. H501w." 

I was going to buy more when they were discounted and blown out...hasn't happened!!

For the record, I really like GITD something on a headlamp, as I'm often groping for mine in the dark. Having it be the 'reflector' (or "backboard" as the case may be) assures it's frequently glowed-up and ready to go.

But, as I'm not a cool-tint guy, I'm awaiting a 'w' or a 'c' of the new light, which looks pretty fantastic to me. 

Yeah, I once almost burned a hole in my pocket (slight exaggeration there) with an H501w that came on high and expended the cell entirely. I'd forgotten to release the tailcap. It was so hot I could not touch it for several minutes. So very pleased with a recessed button.


----------



## Beacon of Light

haha bolster, ok you're H501w guy! The GITD layer near the LED of the H502 reminds me of the 4Sevens Preon P0 as it has the same thing and I don't mind it. It is somewhat helpful to find in the dark. I would have prefered a GITD spacer ring like the H51/H31 and I prefer the GITD holders instead of the black rubber ones. I sacrificed the GITD lanyard my H50 came with and cut the cord and just installed the H31 into it and it fits fine and can swivel the light in the holder wth ease but it also has enough resistance to hold it without it slipping. Here's hoping ebralight heeded my request in sending my 2 H502 headlampos with GITD holders instead of the black rubber ones.


----------



## mobi

Some notes after wearing the H502 for several hours

The 120º angle gives the impression of the desk, room, etc being totally lit wherever I look. Except for the extreme of my peripheral vision, the area in front of me is flooded with an even light.

The GITD reflector introduces an undocumented "glow" level, useful in total darkness.

I use Zebras for safety when out at night. The effective radius of visibility of the H502 on strobe is close to 180º. This indicates to me that if a vehicle is within my field of vision, the driver can see me.

I also use the Zebra as a tactical light: as the luminous equivalent of pepper spray. In a dimly lit room, receiving a sudden shot of photons from the H502 on high -- or "stun", to borrow an old Star Trek phaser term -- is painful and leaves a memory of the LED die on the retina.

By the way, I spoke to James Walker of ZL on Friday, and he tells me that ZL is transitioning to bringing manufacturing capacity to the U.S.


----------



## Beacon of Light

wow huge size difference there. It doesn't look much different diameter wise between the H51 and the H502. I like the flush flattop head of the H502 as well.

I thought the pic deserved to be added as a pic here instead of just a link.

>>>>>>>>>>>>H51 on left and H502 on the right<<<<<<<<<<











KDM said:


> This is the 51 and 502.
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111327...hkey=Gv1sRgCLu7zq7-zpfuKA#5749742824983375218


----------



## varuscelli

I'm "The Guy Formerly Known as Mr. H501x" (as long as we're staking claims and labeling ourselves and each other). 

Now I'll need to register mrh502x.com to secure my place in history.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Yeah, the pic from KDM answers the question I had earlier about the battery tube.

The earlier pic from Moshow9, showing the 502 with the old 501, somehow made the new battery tube look exceptionally wide.

But this new pic from KDM makes it look pretty normal compared to the 51, and it looks as though the tail-caps will probably interchange.

Looking forward to mail-call tomorrow!


----------



## scout24

Moshow9- I like your picture of the 502 on moonmode next to the 501. Was the 501 on it's lower low? I'm assuming so but thought I'd ask. 502 looks like a winner!


----------



## moshow9

scout24 said:


> Moshow9- I like your picture of the 502 on moonmode next to the 501. Was the 501 on it's lower low? I'm assuming so but thought I'd ask. 502 looks like a winner!


Correct, they were both on their lowest outputs. I want to pick up a second one to keep in my car for emergencies but will wait until the neutral/high cri versions. It's bright enough to light up my entire back yard.


----------



## Mr Floppy

Bolster said:


> I was going to buy more when they were discounted and blown out...hasn't happened!!


 
I was waiting for the same but now I can't find any place that has stock! Not even the red one!



Bolster said:


> But, as I'm not a cool-tint guy, I'm awaiting a 'w' or a 'c' of the new light, which looks pretty fantastic to me.



I was going to get a HL51Fr but I might just have to get a H502r instead. If there is going to be one that is. 



mobi said:


> By the way, I spoke to James Walker of ZL on Friday, and he tells me that ZL is transitioning to bringing manufacturing capacity to the U.S.



That's good for the USAians but I hope it doesn't raise the prices too much. Hope the quality stays the same or better.


----------



## jhc37013

Now wait how am I not Mr. H501 I've only had about 100 post where I described it as the most useful lighting device in my collection, ok then I will concede this time and let the battle go on between bolster and davidt1 while Beacon counts the votes, maybe one can be President H501 and the other Vice President H501. 

On the subject of the GITD holder if I wake at night in my completely dark room I can see the H501 holder glowing even though I have not used it all day or night, I don't know how it collects photons from such miniscule ambient light as a alarm clock 15 feet away but it does, no it's not bright but it doesn't need to be in those conditions and it's really the only GITD accessory that I've ever found to be really useful. I don't know if the H502's GITD disk will work as well it's obviously not as big as the H501 holder and of course it will need to face you to see the glowing area but hey if it evens works just a little it may be enough to see with dark adapted eyes so I don't see any drawback.


----------



## KDM

Beacon of Light said:


> wow huge size difference there. It doesn't look much different diameter wise between the H51 and the H502. I like the flush flattop head of the H502 as well.
> 
> I thought the pic deserved to be added as a pic here instead of just a link.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>H51 on left and H502 on the right<<<<<<<<<<


Noobie error, thanks for posting it. Yes the caps will interchange, it appears to be the same diameter.


----------



## poonchasta

Mine should be coming today. I can't wait to get off work.


----------



## tychoseven

Anybody have a beamshot or two? I'm super psyched, though I'm also waiting on the W and C models.


----------



## Bolster

mobi said:


> By the way, I spoke to James Walker of ZL on Friday, and he tells me that ZL is transitioning to bringing manufacturing capacity to the U.S.



The guy who started this thread 66 thousand views ago was Ja(me)s. Coincidence? Tell him we miss him! 
Three cheers for INsourcing, if true.




jhc37013 said:


> Now wait how am I not Mr. H501 ..



That's four of us competing for the title, now? Anyone else want to throw their headband into the ring?


----------



## skyfire

Bolster said:


> The guy who started this thread 66 thousand views ago was Ja(me)s. Coincidence? Tell him we miss him!
> Three cheers for INsourcing, if true.
> 
> 
> 
> That's four of us competing for the title, now? Anyone else want to throw their headband into the ring?



although i do love my H501w, and have tried out 4 or 5 zebras after the h501w, my h501w is my only remaining zebra, for now....
i shall bow out of this running sir.... good luck to you all


----------



## michaelmcgo

Almost just bought one of these, until I realized it did not support Li-Ion! I have an SC600, and I can deal with Li-Ion support ONLY, but in this age non-support of Li-Ion is crazy! I understand the efficiencies of the circuit by picking a certain voltage, but L91's should not be the only choice for a hot-rod.

I use headlamps solely for hiking, backpacking, camping etc. These are the cases when I need backwards support across all my batteries so I can use my supply of primary and Li-Ion in everything.


----------



## jhc37013

michaelmcgo said:


> Almost just bought one of these, until I realized it did not support Li-Ion! I have an SC600, and I can deal with Li-Ion support ONLY, but in this age non-support of Li-Ion is crazy! I understand the efficiencies of the circuit by picking a certain voltage, but L91's should not be the only choice for a hot-rod.
> 
> I use headlamps solely for hiking, backpacking, camping etc. These are the cases when I need backwards support across all my batteries so I can use my supply of primary and Li-Ion in everything.



Do you have some Eneloops or those Sanyo 2700mah? With this light you get the output of a 14500 light using NiMh, if you don't it's worth the investment just for the Zebralight AA models.


----------



## rookiedaddy

Bolster said:


> That's four of us competing for the title, now? Anyone else want to throw their headband into the ring?


ooo... i wanna play... here's my entries:

H501 :: >7,200 hours of runtime (lo-mode)
H501w :: >5,000 hours of runtime (lo-mode)
4 x Eneloop AA in loop with each having been thru between 50 - 70 recharging cycles


----------



## Lynx_Arc

michaelmcgo said:


> I understand the efficiencies of the circuit by picking a certain voltage, but L91's should not be the only choice for a hot-rod.


If you think about it... when you have a circuit that is most efficient around 1.5v that means from 1 to 2v is the range with efficiency dropping from the middle to both ends. In a circuit that ranges from 1v to 4.2v the middle of the operating range is now 2.6v which means neither high or low is as bright so by adding 14500 support your "hot-rod" just became last years model.. not so hot any more.


----------



## davidt1

michaelmcgo said:


> Almost just bought one of these, until I realized it did not support Li-Ion! I have an SC600, and I can deal with Li-Ion support ONLY, but in this age non-support of Li-Ion is crazy! I understand the efficiencies of the circuit by picking a certain voltage, but L91's should not be the only choice for a hot-rod.
> 
> I use headlamps solely for hiking, backpacking, camping etc. These are the cases when I need backwards support across all my batteries so I can use my supply of primary and Li-Ion in everything.



There is the H600, if you want Li-Ion. It's possibly the smallest light running 18650 battery.


----------



## Esko

michaelmcgo said:


> Almost just bought one of these, until I realized it did not support Li-Ion! I have an SC600, and I can deal with Li-Ion support ONLY, but in this age non-support of Li-Ion is crazy! I understand the efficiencies of the circuit by picking a certain voltage, but L91's should not be the only choice for a hot-rod.



With this kind of boost in efficiency, degrading the value of the light with a Li-Ion support would be crazy!

It is an AA light. Li-ion 14500 is a quite rare niche product which has less capacity than a high quality Ni-MH. Just wait for the H302 which is scheduled to be released this year. It will be optimized for lithium based energy and lithium based energy only (primaries and li-ion).


----------



## YoSeKi

14500 support would be redundant. They are probably already near the limit of how much heat that body can handle (at 260 lm ANSI). There would be no point in having 14500 support if you could not safely drive it appreciably harder.

And a 14500 has only marginal additional capacity compared to an Eneloop.

A typical, high quality 14500 has 750mAh of capacity. Total energy = 0.75 Ah x 3.7 V nominal = 2.775 Wh
An Eneloop AA has 2000mAh of capacity. Total energy = 2 Ah x 1.2 V nominal = 2.4 Wh

Not really worth it.


----------



## travinc

can anyone tell me where they ship from? I asume its china as my tracking number ends with "cn" but my number doesnt work. It shipped on the 29th and as Australia is relatively closer than America i would think it would be here already.

But in saying that Australia post is perhaps the worst in the world, i often get international packages well before domestic.


----------



## poonchasta

Mine shipped from Texas. I got mine today, and my mouth let out a sigh of relief because it no longer has to hold a flashlight when I need both hands.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Got my H502s today. Anyone having difficulty switching the L2 and M2 extra modes? I get it that you have to enter program mode (pressing 6 times) within each main mode (low/medium or high). I can get the L1 and 3 different L2 modes to display. In M2 it just seems like when you enter the program mode it only switches bewtween M1 and M2, without the lower 12 lm mode. In high mode the 260 lm doesnt look much different than the 160lm. 

The H1 or H2 (whichever it is) is pretty damned bright even in the daylight. I get temporary blind spots from trying to discern the different modes for the last 10 minutes. I never really use high so even at the 100 lumen setting that is high enough for me. 

Sort of wish you could program the L1, M1 and H1 levels and not just the L2, M2 and H2 levels. On most I'd prefer the higher L2, M2 and H2 settings as L1 M1 and H1.

Actually it would be cool if they allowed programming levels like Novatac. I'd set levels as:
H1-50lm / H2-25lm
M1-12lm / M2-2.7lm
L1-0.34lm / L2-0.01lm

Was a little disappointed they didn't substitute the GITD holders instead of the black holders that I requested. They did include an older H50 GITD holder, but it's much smaller than the H51/H502 holder.


----------



## eh4

Bolster, I follow your reasoning. To add, it might well also be that they are indeed pursuing the mix and match approach but keeping it in the assembly house... More orders for H51Fc? Take an H51 _c off the shelf and insert floody lens. W models selling faster than standard tint? Slow down on cool white and load more neutral emitters on the line. ZL could do some very flexible just-in-time manufacturing.


----------



## UTV2TiVo

Beacon of Light said:


> Anyone having difficulty switching the L2 and M2 extra modes? I get it that you have to enter program mode (pressing 6 times) within each main mode (low/medium or high).




Your problem may be that it takes 6 DOUBLE clicks to get into program mode. Then double clicks after that to cycle through the levels. You have to start from the level that you want to change.


----------



## poonchasta

The lowest setting, 0.01 lumens, is ridiculously low. I'm gonna try it out tonight in pitch dark and see if it is actually usable at that setting. In practice, 0.01 lumens would be a good low power mode to leave on all night just to make the light easy to find in pitch dark. It'd be cool if you could program the light to default to 0.01 lumens when turned off.


----------



## R11

Beacon of Light said:


> Got my H502s today. Anyone having difficulty switching the L2 and M2 extra modes? I get it that you have to enter program mode (pressing 6 times) within each main mode (low/medium or high). I can get the L1 and 3 different L2 modes to display. *In M2 it just seems like when you enter the program mode it only switches bewtween M1 and M2, without the lower 12 lm mode*. In high mode the 260 lm doesnt look much different than the 160lm.
> 
> The H1 or H2 (whichever it is) is pretty damned bright even in the daylight. I get temporary blind spots from trying to discern the different modes for the last 10 minutes. I never really use high so even at the 100 lumen setting that is high enough for me.
> 
> Sort of wish you could program the L1, M1 and H1 levels and not just the L2, M2 and H2 levels. On most I'd prefer the higher L2, M2 and H2 settings as L1 M1 and H1.
> 
> Actually it would be cool if they allowed programming levels like Novatac. I'd set levels as:
> H1-50lm / H2-25lm
> M1-12lm / M2-2.7lm
> L1-0.34lm / L2-0.01lm
> 
> Was a little disappointed they didn't substitute the GITD holders instead of the black holders that I requested. They did include an older H50 GITD holder, but it's much smaller than the H51/H502 holder.


Their product info page says M2 only has one sub level. Are you maybe just toggling between M2-25Lm and M2-12Lm?

High: H1 *260* Lm (0.9 hrs) or H2 *160* Lm (1.9 hrs) / *100* Lm (3.3 hrs) / 4Hz Strobe 
Medium: M1 *50* Lm (7.5 hrs) or M2 *25*Lm (12 hrs) / *12* Lm (27 hrs)
Low: L1 *2.7 *Lm (4 days) or L2 *0.34* Lm (3 weeks) / *0.06 *Lm (2 months) / *0.01 *Lm (3 months) 


On a semi-related note, in reply to an email I sent asking about the Rebel emitter based outputs/runtimes I got this reply today:



> Hi Ron,
> We'll publish the H502d/H502c specs this week.





ron


----------



## skyfire

michaelmcgo said:


> Almost just bought one of these, until I realized it did not support Li-Ion! I have an SC600, and I can deal with Li-Ion support ONLY, but in this age non-support of Li-Ion is crazy! I understand the efficiencies of the circuit by picking a certain voltage, but L91's should not be the only choice for a hot-rod.
> 
> I use headlamps solely for hiking, backpacking, camping etc. These are the cases when I need backwards support across all my batteries so I can use my supply of primary and Li-Ion in everything.



i feel quite the opposite, i hate that the h600 is 18650 only, or single li-ion. i really wish ZL would make a version that could also take primaries, even if it means lower efficiency. 
i dont mind that the h502 doesnt take li-ion, because 14500 and 16340 have too little capacity for my liking.


----------



## Bwang

Mine just arrived in the mail. This is my first post after lurking for a few weeks.

I'm into ultralight backpacking so I'm trying to see how light the lightest headlamp setup is. I ordered an extra GITD holder and strung a shock cord through it. With an Energizer L91 it tips my scales at 57grams. I could probably lose a gram or two by omitting the mini cord lock. It is surprisingly comfortable once I figured out that the cord should be threaded as shown. It seems to be at least as comfortable as the petzl zipka it will be replacing. If anyone has any ideas on a lighter headlamp setup that has at least about 40 lumens and good runtime please let me know - possibly with a AAA battery from another manufacturer? Thanks!





[/URL] IMG_2076 by billwangphoto, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## lampeDépêche

skyfire said:


> ...i hate that the h600 is 18650 only, or single li-ion. i really wish ZL would make a version that could also take primaries, even if it means lower efficiency.



You know, it's not hard at all to run the H600 from a DL123 primary. The folks at Overready have a spacer that will stretch a 123 cell out to the length of an 18650. They also have a fine-looking Delrin sleeve that will take a 123 plus a spacer, and bulk their diameter out to the size of an 18650. And there you have it: a single 123 primary, masquerading as an 18650. Looks slick!

If you don't mind a rougher picture, you can do the same with some cardboard and springs and electrical tape. Looks not so slick!

I probably wouldn't run my H600 in turbo mode (i.e. 750 lumens) using this set-up, because that's a lot of amperage draw for a single 123. But I think it would handle 450 lumens okay, and anything lower it would do easily.

There are similar tricks for running your 18650 lights on 14500 cells in a pinch, and similar cautions apply: in addition to longer life-time, the 18650 also handles heavy amp-draws with aplomb, which smaller cells cannot always do. So these are kludges for lower-lumen use. But good to have as fall-backs!

If I were going on an extended trip, I'd be sure to bring along spacers and sleeves so that I could always run my H600 on primaries if I couldn't recharge my 18650's.


----------



## poonchasta

It would be pretty cool if there was a special battery holder that let you run an 18650 light off of two cr123 by running them in parallel so that you don't exceed the voltage limit and instead get double the mAh.


----------



## Beacon of Light

The H502 is not much bigger than the CR123 H31 headlamp even though the H502 takes much taller AAs. Makes you wonder how small the H302 will be as it should be even smaller than the H31.


----------



## YoSeKi

While it's nice to have all these photos of the headlamp, how about some beamshots?


----------



## Woods Walker

I look forward to the field reports and beam shots.


----------



## Bolster

eh4 said:


> ...it might well also be that they are indeed pursuing the mix and match approach but keeping it in the assembly house... More orders for H51Fc? Take an H51 _c off the shelf and insert floody lens. W models selling faster than standard tint? Slow down on cool white and load more neutral emitters on the line. ZL could do some very flexible just-in-time manufacturing.



Excellent point.




YoSeKi said:


> While it's nice to have all these photos of the headlamp, how about some beamshots?



I was just going to say: All these photos OF the flashlight. _We know what it looks like already! _Let's see a beamshot!!


----------



## Cunha

The extreme shortness on the H502 is possible because of the very shallow reflector area. On most of the other lights the reflector are is significantly deeper which takes up space that the AA battery occupies on the H502. 

The glow in the dark reflector on the light is cool and is extremely bright after the light has been turned on. A drawback I believe I am noticing is that the outer edges of the light at higher brightness levels have a faint green hue to them and I don't think this is due to the non neutral XML. 

If no on else posts good beam shots I will take some for the gang here. As the specs say, the beam is incredibly wide. When holding the light you need to hold it pretty low to keep your knuckles out of the way. Just like everyone mentioned, people will probably complain that this floody light is too floody. If you want a good balance of flood and throw, get the H51 or some standard reflector light. This thing is wonderful for lighting up an entire room very evenly. It lets you work without being distracted by the tunnel vision that other lights curse you with. The 260 lumens is actually useful in a room because it lights up your entire field of view effectively without any blinding hot spot. 

This kind of light doesn't lend well to really WOW first impressions, but when you get down and start using the light, the enormous amount of flood really shows you how useful it is versus the tunnel vision other lights have to offer. I love this thing.

I pre ordered the light once I saw it was up, I have been impressed by my SC51w, and my H51. I knew I couldn't go wrong with this light and my confidence was rewarded. There was a knick on the light right out of the box that was kind of annoying, but otherwise its pure zebralight beauty.

Also I expected the dome of the bulb to be exposed, but there is a nice flat piece of glass covering the bulb and the "reflector" so cleaning and scratches won't be so much of an issue. I really appreciated the ribs around the head of the light going all the way around the back versus stopping for some imaginary clip like on the H51. 

I love that it is just as small as it could possibly be. Regarding the 14500 issue - this light was optimized for standard AA batteries. One light can't do everything. Eneloops or L91's, and standard alkalines in a pinch.

If you're like me you are probably wondering if it is worthwhile to wait for the H502w or H502C or D, I honestly don't know. For me, W's make things more yellow than normal, and standards make things more blue. High CRI's are cool but I appreciate high output too much to sacrifice that much for the CRI. I couldn't decide even when I had an SC51w and H51 to compare side by side. I lost the SC51w and gave the H51 as a gift, but I liked both a great deal.

Regarding the switch... I never really had issues with the H51 or SC51 switches being too easy to press, this one is honestly a little deeper than I would like, but it seems a direct response to previous criticisms of "too easy" activation. 

Also, anyone going from an H51 to an H502 should remember to give the flood a chance. At first it may be annoying not being able to toss light into the distance like you are used to, but get inside a tent, or under a house, or under a car hood, or in a car, or anywhere in your house in the dark, or really any scenario where you would likely be using a tiny light, and these things really are the right tool for the job. I ordered this right after getting back from a backpacking trip where I borrowed the H51 I gave to my friend. It was a great light, but I used it mainly cooking dinner in the dark, washing up or brushing teeth in the dark, and in my tent. 100 percent of the time I used a light on this back packing trip, the H502 would have been better in every way. Consider your needs.

I can't wait to see how they pull 300 lumens out of the T5. I wish it was a side clicky like the SC51 but I can't wait to get my hands on it anyways.


----------



## Outdoorsman5

Cunha said:


> The glow in the dark reflector on the light is cool and is extremely bright after the light has been turned on. A drawback I believe I am noticing is that the outer edges of the light at higher brightness levels have a faint green hue to them and I don't think this is due to the non neutral XML.



I don't have the H502 (I'm holding out for the H502w), but I own 7 lights with the XML LED in them. All of my cool white versions have a greenish hue on the outer edge of each beam. My neutral tint XML's do not have this problem. I can't say this from experience since I don't have the H502 in hand, but I am betting that the glow in the dark reflector is not bright enough to affect the overall color of the beam. Seems to me that the greenish hue you are experiencing would prolly be a byproduct of the XML cool white LED. Can you or anyone else confirm if this is what's going on? Thanks.


----------



## south_aussie_hiker

Long time lurker, first time poster.

After waiting three months late last year for the H502, I got impatient and ordered the H501. Love it.

I still plan to get the H502, mainly because of the hype about the increased driver and xm-l efficiency. I decided to do some numbers on the H501 vs H502, to see what sort of efficiency gain there really is.

It is a little hard to do a direct comparison because the H501 Zebralight specs were with a 2700 Sanyo, and the H502 Zebralight specs are with a 2000 Eneloop. I know that a 2000 Eneloop has a MINIMUM capacity of 2000mAh (likely to be more), but for simplicity I've assumed that Zebralight's 2700 Sanyo had 2700 mAh and their Eneloop had 2000 mAh. I've calculated how much total light each one gives by simply multiplying the lumens by the run times. These assumptions make the calculations a very crude estimation at best.





*H501 (Sanyo 2700)*​










*Lumens*​
*Time*​
*Units*​
*“Power”*​
*=*​*Zebralight Specs*









96​

2.3​

Hours​
221​
*=*​*My calculations*

18​

19​

Hours​
342​
3.3​

3.5​

Days​
277​
0.4​

21​

Days​
202​
*H502 (Eneloop 2000)*​
*H502 (Theoretical 2700 mAh)*​
*Lumens*​
*Time*​
*Units*​
*“Power”*​
*Lumens*​
*Time*​
*Units*​
*“Power”*​
260​
0.9​
Hours​
234​
260​
1.2​
Hours​
316​
160​
1.9​
Hours​
304​
160​
2.6​
Hours​
410​
100​
3.3​
Hours​
330​
100​
4.5​
Hours​
446​
50​
7.5​
Hours​
375​
50​
10.1​
Hours​
506​
25​
12​
Hours​
300​
25​
16.2​
Hours​
405​
12​
1.1​
Days​
324​
12​
1.5​
Days​
437​
2.7​
4​
Days​
259​
2.7​
5.4​
Days​
350​
0.34​
3​
Weeks​
171​
0.34​
4.1​
Weeks​
231​0.06

2​
Months​
86​
0.06​
2.7​
Months​
117​
0.03​
3​
Months​
65​
0.03​
4.1​
Months​
87​
​The end result is essentially that purely on the Zebralight specs, the H502 appears only about 9% more efficienct (on my spreadsheet 375 "power" H502 compared to 342 "power" of the H501).

But factor in the difference between the batteries they tested with and it gets more interesting. The difference is now about 48% (on my spreadsheet 506 "power" H502 compared to 342 "power" of the H501).

That 48% is obviously made up partially by driver improvements, and partially by XM-L versus XR-E efficiencies.

I guess 48% is not to be sneezed at. Interestingly, both lights give their maximum efficiency at around 1/5th of their max lumens (18 lumens for the H501, 50 lumens for the H502)

I too would be interested in an 80 degree H502, because I think the beam and spread on the H501 is perfect for me.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Beacon of Light said:


> ...Makes you wonder how small the H302 will be as it should be even smaller than the H31.
> 
> 
> 
> Rumor has it that the external dimensions of the H302 will be smaller than the 123a cell itself. The on-off switch will be located inside the positive terminal. The emitter will be centered in the little circle around the "-EF-" of "Surefire".
> 
> It's a good form-factor--you just have to make sure not to load the flashlight into another flashlight by mistake!
Click to expand...


----------



## mobi

A rough comparison H502 vs H51W


----------



## server

For me the pics don't show up but right click - open image in new tab:


----------



## davidt1

Cunha,

Thank you for that fine analysis//review of the H502. 

How much brighter is this light compared to the H501?

Looking at the H31/H502 picture above, I am thinking Zebralight could put a spacer in the H502 and make it a H802 that can take both CR123 and AA. Wouldn't that be an awesome light?


----------



## Beacon of Light

Tried the light in pure darkness last night and while I am one of the biggest low low guys on here, it seems with the 120 degree flood beam the .01 and .06 lumen lows are almost impossible to see with since it diffuses the beam too great. I think those levels would be perfect in a H51 or H52 if Zebralight sticks with their numbering system. The .34 lumen L2 is perfect though. Pretty much all I needed to use is the .34 L2 and the 2.7 L1 and I'm set.


----------



## Beacon of Light

davidt1 said:


> Looking at the H31/H502 picture above, I am thinking Zebralight could put a spacer in the H502 and make it a H802 that can take both CR123 and AA. Wouldn't that be an awesome light?



Excellent idea there!


----------



## Lynx_Arc

davidt1 said:


> Cunha,
> 
> Thank you for that fine analysis//review of the H502.
> 
> How much brighter is this light compared to the H501?
> 
> Looking at the H31/H502 picture above, I am thinking Zebralight could put a spacer in the H502 and make it a H802 that can take both CR123 and AA. Wouldn't that be an awesome light?


The problem is the light would be dimmer than the 502 using nimh because they couldn't use the same circuit instead a wider range would be needed to accommodate the 3v battery and you are back to the previous generation of lights that also could use lithium ions but were dimmer on both ends than these new limited voltage range lights are/will be.


----------



## Bolster

Beacon of Light said:


> ...it seems with the 120 degree flood beam the .01 and .06 lumen lows are almost impossible to see with since it diffuses the beam too great...



Sounds PERFECT to me! With dark adapted eyes this should just fit the bill. Maybe this is my new astronomy light.


----------



## KDM

The. 01 and .06 beams are great for changing the babies diaper in the middle of the night. Ha! It's low enough it doesn't beam her right in the eyes and wake her up. Yeah I'm super dad of three.


----------



## yifu

travinc said:


> can anyone tell me where they ship from? I asume its china as my tracking number ends with "cn" but my number doesnt work. It shipped on the 29th and as Australia is relatively closer than America i would think it would be here already.
> 
> But in saying that Australia post is perhaps the worst in the world, i often get international packages well before domestic.


 US domestic orders ship from Texas, international ships from Shanghai, China. I ordered mine to be shipped via EMS so it should be here in 2-3 days. And agreed on the poor quality of our national postage system.


----------



## thaugen

Thanks for the beamshots and first impression reviews. Order just placed!


----------



## davidt1

Lynx_Arc said:


> The problem is the light would be dimmer than the 502 using nimh because they couldn't use the same circuit instead a wider range would be needed to accommodate the 3v battery and you are back to the previous generation of lights that also could use lithium ions but were dimmer on both ends than these new limited voltage range lights are/will be.



I recently bought a Lighthound tactical light out of necessity because my H51w is not bright enough for my work during the day. This is a new light with an XM-L emitter that can take 14500 or regular AA. It is insanely bright with 14500 battery. If I want more run time, I can always use AA battery. I know Zebralight makes amazingly efficient AA lights, but they still can't compete with 14500 lights for sheer brightness.


----------



## Woods Walker

Beacon of Light said:


> Tried the light in pure darkness last night and while I am one of the biggest low low guys on here, it seems with the 120 degree flood beam the .01 and .06 lumen lows are almost impossible to see with since it diffuses the beam too great. I think those levels would be perfect in a H51 or H52 if Zebralight sticks with their numbering system. The .34 lumen L2 is perfect though. Pretty much all I needed to use is the .34 L2 and the 2.7 L1 and I'm set.



A low too low for you? Say it isn't so.


----------



## ulfheonar

I though my princeton tec quad was good , just went reading about it , high 45 lumen 1 hours runtime with 3 aaa , that sucks lol , I definitely need a zebra 502


----------



## YoSeKi

davidt1 said:


> I recently bought a Lighthound tactical light... It is insanely bright with 14500 battery.



That's because the Lighthound AA Tactical (aka Balder SE-1) runs direct drive on a 14500 and pulls over 2 amps. That is not a safe setup, unless you use an IMR, for anything longer than short bursts.


----------



## Bolster

server said:


> For me the pics don't show up but right click - open image in new tab:



Thanks for the beamshots!!


----------



## mobi

Another rough comparison, this time of beam angle H502 vs H51w


----------



## Justintoxicated

tickled said:


> I want to see what the tint of the Rebel 5000K looks like against the XM-L 5000K. I'm not sure I like the GITD thing. It seems to add a slight greenish cast on my E03. Isn't the Nichia even lower output than the Rebel?



no. in fact it is much brighter and higher CRI.

What I don't like is that they put the clip channel on only one side of the light. Why would they change the design? The clip works much better when attached near the head of the light for me. At least when it's not attached to the headlamp. It also gives the end of the flip a nice edge to grab against. At least this is the case on the H51


----------



## moozooh

Justintoxicated said:


> no. in fact it is much brighter and higher CRI.


Really? That really makes me wonder why doesn't ZebraLight use it instead of the Rebel, and/or perhaps instead of the neutral XM-L as well—surely it isn't more profitable to manufacture the same model with four different LEDs rather than two? Perhaps mr. ZebraLight himself could explain the rationale if he keeps an eye on this thread.


----------



## lampeDépêche

It finally came in the mail! I love it!

Some first impressions:

1) It's very, very small--somehow feels significantly smaller than the H51, which is compact to begin with. Feels just like a joint of my finger.

2) The tail-cap threading is the same on the H502 and the H51. BUT! They do *NOT* interchange. The diameter of the opening on the tail-cap of the H502 is just a tiny bit smaller. This means that you can thread the H51 tail-cap onto the H502 and it will cinch down tight enough to complete the circuit, but it probably does not make a tight enough seal against the O-ring. When you try the other direction, sc. the H502 tail-cap on the H51 body, it simply will not go over the O-ring, nor will it screw down far enough to make electrical contact with the body. (Maybe it would bottom out if you removed the O-ring. But once I realized that the openings were different sizes, I did not try to force anything. And there would be no point in using it if you were required to remove the O-ring.)

3) The lowest ultra-low setting, sc. the 0.01 lumen setting, is *really* low. Beacon of Light says up above that it is too low to see with, and although it is not night time yet, I suspect I will agree with him. I took it down into the cellar and compared it to my Red Photon on its lowest low setting (which is really low!). A red Photon on its lowest setting was putting out more light than the H502 does on 0.01 mode. I think the best way to think about this level is that it is an output that lets the lamp *be* seen, i.e. it's like having a trit in the light. Yeah, the GITD face does some of that too, but this ensures that it GITD stuff stays powered up. I like the suggestion above that this level be an optional turn-off level--I might think of using it that way. Certainly it is a great night-stand level. (Though here I wish it could be programmed so that the Low toggled between 0.01 and the 0.34 level. The jump to the main Low of 2.7 is huge!)

4) The smooth flood is a new ball-game to me: this is the first pure floody light that I have had. But I have achieved the same effect in the past by removing the bezel and reflector from my Quark Titanium AA and just running it bare-emitter. This is better, both because it remains water-proof and because it is shielded enough not to shine in my eyes. I can definitely see why this beam-profile is going to be better for e.g. crawling under the house, or repairing the bike on a night-ride, or reading in bed.

5) When I get the next one, i.e. either a neutral XML or one of the Rebels, this one will go on the front of my bike to act as a strobe during the day and a solid light at night. Not enough throw for a head-light, of course, but it will be a *great* way to be seen by any car within 120 degrees of head-on. 

Now if I could just make up my mind about which of the other emitters I want to buy....


----------



## davidt1

Thanks for the report LampeDepeche.

Wow, early impressions have been very positive. I can't wait to see a direct H501/H502 or H51F/H502 comparison.


----------



## Changchung

Please, take out those lights to the park...


----------



## bbb74

I'm kind of glad the "w", "c" and "d" versions aren't available yet. Only because I haven't been able to decide which one to get :thinking:

I figure the "c" is going to be about 160 lumens and the "d" about 170 lumens, and the "w" about 240 lumens if they use the same amount of current as the cool white.

Is it worth losing 80 lumens to get higher CRI?
Is the 10 point difference in CRI really going to be that significant? (75->85). Especially when it costs so much of the output?

The light will be for general close up type work, but also for outdoors. I've already got throwers etc. Are really floody lights like the h502 much good outside? I imagine throw is maybe 5 meters or less? I do a bit of hiking at night, have been using H51 + a tk41 for this. Want to start taking some pictures at night too, but I do have a 430EX-II flash which I presume has a CRI of close to 100. Would a 502 be better than a H51 for this? I don't tend to run my lights at max so I'd normally use about 100 lumens for most tasks. But it would of course be nice to have 240 lumens a click away 

Something else I noticed is the rebels have a higher Vf than the xm-l, so I presume that as well as less lumens, at the same current they will still be drawing more power due to the higher Vf? I'm presuming the driver for the rebels will not be the same as the one for the xm-ls?


----------



## Smells_Familiar

I want this light, but I'll be running it mainly on the 100 and 160 lumen settings for extended periods of time and I'm a bit concerned about potential damage to my eneloops considering they're pretty much sitting right behind the emitter. I'll be running the light anywhere from 4 hours to 12 hours straight, nearly every time I use it. 

Can someone who's received one of these lights put an eneloop in it and run it for 20 minutes on the 160 lumen setting and then report back how hot the battery end got? I'd love ya for it!


----------



## varuscelli

One of you brave souls who owns the H501 and H502 and a camera please do some beam shots. And show us something at equivalent output settings (among whatever other shots you choose). 

Or do a video.


----------



## saypat

Anybody know anything about Tekpicks who is offering the light at $69 less 8% with CPF code and free shipping! I think that's a great deal. Anybody gone for it yet?

thanks,
patrick


----------



## applevision

lampeDépêche said:


> It finally came in the mail! I love it!
> 
> Some first impressions:
> 
> 1) It's very, very small--somehow feels significantly smaller than the H51, which is compact to begin with. Feels just like a joint of my finger.
> 
> 2) The tail-cap threading is the same on the H502 and the H51. BUT! They do *NOT* interchange. The diameter of the opening on the tail-cap of the H502 is just a tiny bit smaller. This means that you can thread the H51 tail-cap onto the H502 and it will cinch down tight enough to complete the circuit, but it probably does not make a tight enough seal against the O-ring. When you try the other direction, sc. the H502 tail-cap on the H51 body, it simply will not go over the O-ring, nor will it screw down far enough to make electrical contact with the body. (Maybe it would bottom out if you removed the O-ring. But once I realized that the openings were different sizes, I did not try to force anything. And there would be no point in using it if you were required to remove the O-ring.)
> 
> 3) The lowest ultra-low setting, sc. the 0.01 lumen setting, is *really* low. Beacon of Light says up above that it is too low to see with, and although it is not night time yet, I suspect I will agree with him. I took it down into the cellar and compared it to my Red Photon on its lowest low setting (which is really low!). A red Photon on its lowest setting was putting out more light than the H502 does on 0.01 mode. I think the best way to think about this level is that it is an output that lets the lamp *be* seen, i.e. it's like having a trit in the light. Yeah, the GITD face does some of that too, but this ensures that it GITD stuff stays powered up. I like the suggestion above that this level be an optional turn-off level--I might think of using it that way. Certainly it is a great night-stand level. (Though here I wish it could be programmed so that the Low toggled between 0.01 and the 0.34 level. The jump to the main Low of 2.7 is huge!)
> 
> 4) The smooth flood is a new ball-game to me: this is the first pure floody light that I have had. But I have achieved the same effect in the past by removing the bezel and reflector from my Quark Titanium AA and just running it bare-emitter. This is better, both because it remains water-proof and because it is shielded enough not to shine in my eyes. I can definitely see why this beam-profile is going to be better for e.g. crawling under the house, or repairing the bike on a night-ride, or reading in bed.
> 
> 5) When I get the next one, i.e. either a neutral XML or one of the Rebels, this one will go on the front of my bike to act as a strobe during the day and a solid light at night. Not enough throw for a head-light, of course, but it will be a *great* way to be seen by any car within 120 degrees of head-on.
> 
> Now if I could just make up my mind about which of the other emitters I want to buy....



I got mine too and am in LOVE! I agree with all these excellent observations, *lampe*, and would add that I like it so much it is the first light to truly replace my H501! The low low is amazing too, and I have actually used it for reading in a pitch dark room--it was perfect for that for me. When you wear it around at night the feeling is even more intense than with the H501 that you can just SEE in the dark! It's like you have night vision! I wear glasses--thick ones!--and it has NOT been an issue for me with the 120 degree beam. I like it better than the H501 in every way and that is saying something for me!! 

I also agree with #5... what to get next. We need our experts here to help us! *Selfbuilt*! *HKJ*! *Kaichu Dento*! We need a consult!


----------



## ryguy24000

Beam shots please! reviews please. new thread please.


----------



## my#1hobby

saypat said:


> Anybody know anything about Tekpicks who is offering the light at $69 less 8% with CPF code and free shipping! I think that's a great deal. Anybody gone for it yet?
> 
> thanks,
> patrick


Thanks Patrick, gonna go get me another...


----------



## mobi

Smells_Familiar said:


> Can someone who's received one of these lights put an eneloop in it and run it for 20 minutes on the 160 lumen setting and then report back how hot the battery end got?



H502
SANYO ENELOOP HR-3UWX 2400mAh
Beginning Voltage: 1.4v
Ending Voltage: 1.3v

Temperatures were measured at tail cap using a "laser thermometer". The tail cap was placed at the themometer aperture during readings. Degrees Fahrenheit. Level H2 160 Lumens.

Ambient Room Temp.: 65
Beginning Battery Temp.: 67

Cap Temp. @ 0 min.: 70
Cap Temp. @ 1 min.: 70
Cap Temp. @ 5 min.: 72
Cap Temp. @ 10 min.: 75
Cap Temp. @ 15 min.: 76
Cap Temp. @ 20 min.: 78


----------



## saypat

well, you're welcome. It was posted at CPF somewhere. Just hoping it works out for you, let me know cuz I may order also. I checked the site briefly but didn't see a place for the discount code, it took me straight to PayPal. Anyway, best wishes on ordering and speedy shipping!


----------



## my#1hobby

saypat said:


> well, you're welcome. It was posted at CPF somewhere. Just hoping it works out for you, let me know cuz I may order also. I checked the site briefly but didn't see a place for the discount code, it took me straight to PayPal. Anyway, best wishes on ordering and speedy shipping!


I couldn't find anywhere to enter the code either and I signed into my Paypal account and made it to the last step before purchase. Oh well, I just cancelled it and will wait for the 502w version from the ZL site. :shrug:


----------



## Esko

bbb74 said:


> I'm kind of glad the "w", "c" and "d" versions aren't available yet. Only because I haven't been able to decide which one to get :thinking:
> 
> I figure the "c" is going to be about 160 lumens and the "d" about 170 lumens, and the "w" about 240 lumens if they use the same amount of current as the cool white.



The specs are up now.

d: 170 lumens,
c: 130 lumens

A bit surprised due to the rather big difference.



bbb74 said:


> Is it worth losing 80 lumens to get higher CRI?
> Is the 10 point difference in CRI really going to be that significant? (75->85). Especially when it costs so much of the output?
> 
> The light will be for general close up type work, but also for outdoors. I've already got throwers etc. Are really floody lights like the h502 much good outside? I imagine throw is maybe 5 meters or less? I do a bit of hiking at night, have been using H51 + a tk41 for this. Want to start taking some pictures at night too, but I do have a 430EX-II flash which I presume has a CRI of close to 100. Would a 502 be better than a H51 for this? I don't tend to run my lights at max so I'd normally use about 100 lumens for most tasks. But it would of course be nice to have 240 lumens a click away







bbb74 said:


> Something else I noticed is the rebels have a higher Vf than the xm-l, so I presume that as well as less lumens, at the same current they will still be drawing more power due to the higher Vf? I'm presuming the driver for the rebels will not be the same as the one for the xm-ls?



The runtime on low firefly is slightly shorter than in the standard model. That is probably due to the difference in Vf.


----------



## bbb74

Esko said:


> The specs are up now.
> 
> d: 170 lumens,
> c: 130 lumens
> 
> A bit surprised due to the rather big difference.



Hmm that is more of a drop for the "c" than I was expecting, I wonder why? I was looking at the rebel specs and it seemed there'd be about a 10 lumen difference between the "d" and "c", or maybe I was misinterpreting it.

Release date is 22 June. No exact date for "w" yet. Looking at those specs I'm not sure which one I want again. I'd kind of decided on the "c" assuming it was 160 lumens. Now I'm thinking "w" again...


----------



## Esko

bbb74 said:


> Hmm that is more of a drop for the "c" than I was expecting, I wonder why? I was looking at the rebel specs and it seemed there'd be about a 10 lumen difference between the "d" and "c", or maybe I was misinterpreting it.



It is also not quite in line with the other models:

H51: 200 lumens
H51c: 130 lumens

H502: 260 lumens
H502c: 130 lumens.

:thinking:



bbb74 said:


> Release date is 22 June. No exact date for "w" yet. Looking at those specs I'm not sure which one I want again. I'd kind of decided on the "c" assuming it was 160 lumens. Now I'm thinking "w" again...



In their reply to me ~month ago they said, that the release date for w is in June IF they get good enough emitters in time. I guess they haven't. And I also think that this can be seen as a good sign too (considering the quality).


----------



## Helmut.G

Esko said:


> It is also not quite in line with the other models:
> 
> H51: 200 lumens
> H51c: 130 lumens
> 
> H502: 260 lumens
> H502c: 130 lumens.


Assuming all the difference between H502 and H51 max output comes from the change to an XM-L LED the numbers would fit.


----------



## js82

They changed the date of the w version from June to just 2012. WTF. Infuriating.


----------



## Esko

Helmut.G said:


> Assuming all the difference between H502 and H51 max output comes from the change to an XM-L LED the numbers would fit.





I wonder if they have ever considered updating the floodier F models (i.e. H51F etc) with XM-L. It would make them quite a bit brighter.


----------



## moozooh

Wow, the 4k Rebel is twice less effective than the 6.3k XM-L! It IS consistent with the Rebel specs from earlier lights, though, considering they're measured OTF (flood lights will have lower spec that spotty ones by default).

The 5k one is definitely way more appealing, but having 1/3 less power for pretty much every output level is somewhat daunting still. Oh well, I guess there's no magic after all. 

Waiting for the 502w specs now. 4.2k XM-L is supposed to be around 14% less effective that the 6.3k on average, so if it pumps over 40 lm on M1 and 85+ on the 3-hour H2 setting, I'll definitely take it over the 5k Rebel (whose numbers I expect to be close to 30/65, which is not enough for me). Having to change batteries every couple hours on floody 80 lumen isn't too handy, and probably isn't worth the extra ten points on the CRI.


----------



## lampeDépêche

If they can put a neutral XML on this that's as good as the neutral on my H600, then I think I will probably go with that rather than the Rebel.


 [h=2]*260 * (645 / 750) = 223.6*[/h]


So if there's the same lumen-loss for neutrality with the H502 as with the H600, then it will put out around 220 lumens.

Maybe the tint of the Rebels would totally wow me if I saw it. But not having seen it, I hate to sacrifice that many lumens, when the XML neutral is very good.


----------



## Bolster

If you consider the H502 an ideal hand-work light as I do, then the high is relatively academic. I find that 50 lumens are generally ample for work in the dark at end-of-your-arm distances. (More and your eye's ability to readjust to darker areas is just _blasted_, you've essentially light-blinded yourself and then you need a flashlight for anything and everything.) The "best" work setting for my H501w's is two of them running on medium, giving me a total of 30 lumens--close to ideal. Running one on 80 is generally too bright. 

So for me it comes down to (a) tint and then (b) runtime. So yes, I'd purchase the H502c with its 130 top lumens, absolutely. That would be a great light for doing electrical work in attics, where you need to distinguish colors accurately. If it had a setting at half the top brightness, all the better. 

With headlamps, I chase tint, not brightness. If I want brightness I pull out a handheld.

I realize all you guys who want to make the H502 a trail light think differently about this. But why try to force the H502 into night-hike trail duty? Not what it's meant for. 

Think of the H502 like you'd think of a macro lens for your camera, or reading glasses. It's designed for close-on work. All this fuss over top lumens just doesn't compute for me. Try reading a book at 200 lumens!


----------



## moozooh

While I do want to use it as a trail light (trekking and casual spelunking to be more exact), you're very much correct in the respect that I don't really _need_ high brightness from this light either; it's the _runtime at certain comfortable values_* I'm worried about, and the Rebel just happens to require a lot more juice at those. If anything, I would _at least_ like not to change batteries more than once a day when on a trip, fulfilling all the intended purposes.

* — About 40–50 floody lumen for a familiar terrain, 80–100 for an unfamiliar, some lower values for close range illumination.


----------



## Bolster

I see your point, and I understand the advantage of a floody light for spelunking. But why would you want 120 degrees of illumination on the trail? Wouldn't that be counterproductive, with nearby items brightly lit, and closing down your iris, so the trail further ahead would appear relatively dimmer? 

To me it seems it'd be like hiking a trail with my reading glasses on. But great for setting up camp, though. 

However I do understand the desire to not carry different lights for different tasks. But that runs exactly counter to Zebralight's marketing philosophy: a different light for every purpose. If they'd gone Spark's route, you could just screw in a focusing lens for the trail. But no--not Zebralight.

Thanks for those lumen guides, had not seen those before. Interesting.


----------



## psychbeat

Werd- having flood +spot on trails rules. 

Also- u can easily make a throwy light floodier but not the opposite. 

Im warming up to the 502 but still like the slimmer form of the 501. 
I'd have to see both in person. 
The 302 might be tiny right?


----------



## moozooh

Bolster said:


> I see your point, and I understand the advantage of a floody light for spelunking. But why would you want 120 degrees of illumination on the trail? Wouldn't that be counterproductive, with nearby items brightly lit, and closing down your iris, so the trail further ahead would appear relatively dimmer?
> 
> To me it seems it'd be like hiking a trail with my reading glasses on. But great for setting up camp, though.
> 
> However I do understand the desire to not carry different lights for different tasks. But that runs exactly counter to Zebralight's marketing philosophy: a different light for every purpose. If they'd gone Spark's route, you could just screw in a focusing lens for the trail. But no--not Zebralight.
> 
> Thanks for those lumen guides, had not seen those before. Interesting.



Well, in my very modest experience, most of the time I used a flashlight outdoors I was following at least some kind of visible trail that I used to orientate myself with regards to obstacles and general direction. (I don't do hunting, and when I'm going on treks I prefer to move mainly during daytime.) In cases such as these, I only need to see some five to fifteen meters ahead of myself. Likewise in underground quarries where I did most of my spelunking; most of the paths there consisted of rather narrow (no more than five meters wide) tunnels and headings where you didn't need peripheral vision. 120 degrees is indeed somewhat excessive for cases like these unless you want to provide enough light for several people going with you; not an uncommon scenario in my experience though! In other cases, however, I found a wide wall of light provided by my Chinese-made 16-LED headlight from 2008 very welcome, and farsight needs would be satisfied much better with a high-throw hand light anyway, not necessarily a high-CRI one (I'm looking at SC600 or one of the new ThruNites for that purpose). My main gripe with it until recently, in fact, was that I couldn't tailstand it or clip it to surfaces—something that H502 actually can do, heh.

I do realize that Zebras aren't conceived as all-purpose lights, but I really can't afford—in any sense of the word—to carry a light for _every_ potential purpose I might need, so some compromises must be made. But with their versatility, size, and unbeatable output/power consumption ratio, modern Zebras are, ironically, extremely universal lights!

So for _my_ usage scenarios, the combination of a mid-power floody beam warm light headlamp, a high-power spotty beam hand light, and a small backup light (to get me out of trouble, just in case) would fulfill pretty much all of my needs with minimal compromise, so I'm aiming for that. H502w for the headlamp/angle light, SC600 or one of the newer ThruNites for farsight in range of 100–150m, and ThruNite Ti, which is already on my way, for the backup. They're all small and single-cell, which makes them perfectly eligible for hikes based around ultralight gear.

As for the lumen "guides", that's just my estimate for personal needs; don't take them for any kind of a standard.  Currently I have about five LED lights at my disposal, but none of them have a good balance of size, weight, power consumption and brightness. Thankfully, H502 does, and it uses the most widely available battery type in my and nearby countries by far, so I'm looking forward to getting it.


----------



## Bolster

Understood. We need to find you a way to put some sort of modifying lens (or possibly reflector??) over the front of your H502 so you can use it with a little more focused beam, when you need it that way. I'll put my mind to that once I get a H502 of my own.

Just because Zebra has turned up its nose at beam modification, doesn't mean *we* have to.


----------



## moozooh

Right. I'm planning to go on a 2.5 week long trek along the south coast of the Crimea in late August; the route I'm coming up will contain rocky terrain with hills and some not particularly dense forests. That'll be my longest trip to date, so weight, output/runtime efficiency, and availability of spare cells are going to be the key factors—exactly why I'm so eager on getting H502 in particular; hopefully I'll be able to get it by then.

I'll create a thread on the matter when time comes, and will share my experiences—perhaps even on the go if there happens to be sufficient GMS coverage.


----------



## psychbeat

In the z mods thread someone used a magnifying loop as an aspheric


----------



## riccardo.dv

varuscelli said:


> One of you brave souls who owns the H501 and H502 and a camera please do some beam shots. And show us something at equivalent output settings (among whatever other shots you choose).
> 
> Or do a video.



+1

Hope the w will come soon, I need a new headlamp


----------



## pblanch

Can any of you lucky people with a 502 and have run it a while. Does it do a gradual stepdown with light as the battery is used up or does it go out without warning?


----------



## ryguy24000

Guys Gals. Stop this thread already. I need a review. New thread. Please. Bolster come on man whare are you? I am waiting on the neutral/warm/highCRI version before I order one.


----------



## Bolster

pblanch said:


> Can any of you lucky people with a 502 and have run it a while. Does it do a gradual stepdown with light as the battery is used up or does it go out without warning?



Ditto that question. 




ryguy24000 said:


> Guys Gals. Stop this thread already. I need a review. New thread. Please. Bolster come on man whare are you? I am waiting on the neutral/warm/highCRI version before I order one.



Same as you Ryguy! I'm not buying a cool white emitter! Whoever writes the needed review will have to be someone who buys the cool white that's available...!


----------



## tickled

js82 said:


> They changed the date of the w version from June to just 2012. WTF. Infuriating.


 Some things never change.


----------



## DIΩDΣ

Esko said:


> It is also not quite in line with the other models:
> 
> H51: 200 lumens
> H51c: 130 lumens
> 
> H502: 260 lumens
> H502c: 130 lumens.
> 
> :thinking:







Helmut.G said:


> Assuming all the difference between H502 and H51 max output comes from the change to an XM-L LED the numbers would fit.



I think it was assumed they also increased the driver efficiency but that appears to not be the case if the 130L for H502c is correct. Unless they use a different circuit for the H502 and H502c version...
Thats unfortunate if its true (no increased driver efficiency).

I may be an odd ball but I'm not a big fan of the shorter size of this. The H51 was tiny for AA IMO, to the point that using it handheld was cumbersome. Like 2 fingered hold. I suppose as a more dedicated headlamp that doesnt matter but I find myself using it also in flashlight mode nearly as much. But the difference is minor and also has the benefit of slightly lesser weight. I am really debating... my H51w has been a great light. Infact if I were to pick one light for everything it would be it. I'd like the flood aspect but I use a homemade diffuser on my H51w when needed. But I might gain more from an H600w upgrade for use on the bike or trail running. The again an extra AA light would be handy to have as backup anyhow, and I dont have to buy all new batteries and chargers... hmmm. I'm going to see what the d version is like when it comes out before I decided I think.


----------



## How Goes It

Bolster said:


> If you consider the H502 an ideal hand-work light as I do, then the high is relatively academic. I find that 50 lumens are generally ample for work *in the dark* ... It's designed for close-on work. All this fuss over top lumens just doesn't compute for me. Try reading a book at 200 lumens!



The other day I read a post about someone needing a bright or brighter light, for working on cars.
Somehow I got the impression, this person was talking about working on cars in a garage with the garage door open --- during the day.

I myself do a fair amount of similar work --- where I could be stepping into a shed to look at a pump that is in the shade, with bright sunlight at an adjacent open door. In this case, I need a lot of light to overcome the high contrast my eyes are trying to deal with.

In some cases, I could close a door, and wait for my eyes to dilate, then turn on a lower lumen light. But it's more convenient to just use a brighter light. So 260 lumens is not over the top, for arms reach work during daylight hours.

-----------
Steve


----------



## Esko

Bolster said:


> All this fuss over top lumens just doesn't compute for me. Try reading a book at 200 lumens!



According to (for example) this source, the optimal illumination for (for example) normal office and study library is 500 lux. With 260 lumens and a 120 degree beam, their calculator gives a ~40cm distance for illumination. :shrug:


----------



## TyJo

I really want this but I want the warm/neutral xml.


----------



## Helmut.G

DIΩDΣ;3960857 said:


> I think it was assumed they also increased the driver efficiency[...]


Since this is a 1xAA light and thus needs a boost driver, the lower forward voltage of the XM-L LED should automatically help circuit efficiency a bit, I think.
Now putting in a smaller LED (higher Vf) like the rebels -> back to H51 efficiency (that is excellent btw).

This post is pure speculation, I don't know any secrets.


BTW I _personally_ don't mind a lower max lumens number at all. If it's a great light I'll buy it, no matter if 100 or 200 lumens.
I do agree however that when the sun is around you can never have enough light to fill up shadows properly.


----------



## Bolster

How Goes It said:


> ...stepping into a shed to look at a pump that is in the shade, with bright sunlight at an adjacent open door. In this case, I need a lot of light to overcome the high contrast my eyes are trying to deal with. In some cases, I could close a door, and wait for my eyes to dilate, then turn on a lower lumen light. But it's more convenient to just use a brighter light.



Which is why I specified "in the dark." I'm familiar with how the human iris works in bright light.

I would wager most people using a headlamp are not wearing it around in bright daylight for the occasional peek at something in the shadows. Maybe you do, and that's fine, but I doubt it's typical. Generally people use a pocketable hand-held for that. I agree that filling in shadows takes lots of light. Using a camera flash for fill-light in daylight will run down the battery much faster than taking flash photos in the dark--for obvious reasons. 

Of course I realize the thirst for more lumens is limitless, and there will never be a headlamp (or flashlight) that's bright enough. I'm just pointing out how silly the relentless pursuit of it is, for hand-work in low-light situations. 

Of course you can always think of a situation where a little more light would be nice—obviously! That's what the handheld in your pocket's for. 



Esko said:


> According to (for example) this source, the optimal illumination for (for example) normal office and study library is 500 lux. With 260 lumens and a 120 degree beam, their calculator gives a ~40cm distance for illumination.



OK, OK, I left off the implied qualifier, "Try reading a book at 200 lumens...*in low light*." Yes, of course you can read a book in the bright sunlight. But seriously, put 200 lumens on a book you're reading at night in bed. Not pleasant! And once your eyes adjust to the lit book, you'll see nothing else in the room. 
_
That's_ the perspective from which to view hand-work in low light. You don't _want_ to turn your pupil into the size of a pin-head. (Well, obviously some of you do. I think some of you aren't happy with a light until you are forced to don sunglasses to use it. :shakehead)

_For my uses_, as described above, the output of the H502 will be more than ample. I don't feel the need to chase lumens. I chase runtime and tint. 

For your use, maybe you need more lumens. Maybe you need library-levels of light when reading a book in bed. If so, may I recommend a Scurion.


----------



## How Goes It

Bolster said:


> I would wager most people using a headlamp are not wearing it around in bright daylight for the occasional peek at something in the shadows. Generally people use a pocketable hand-held for that.



I'm going to get a H502 and carry it the same way I carry my Fenix LD10 (not a headlamp). By using the pocket clip to clip it to the inside of my shirt pocket. And when I need the light to look at something, and need both my hands free, I'll simply clip the H502 to the OUTSIDE of my shirt pocket or to the front placket (the strip on the shirt where the button holes are).

The H502 is most likely my new EDC, because it's versatile and by no means does it need to be limited to headband use.

In fact, I'm guessing that I'll rarely use the headband, as the headband is just one more thing to carry around. If I shove the light and headband in my pocket -- then I'll be taking it out when I sit down. And sooner or latter, I would forget to put it back in my pocket when getting up. And that means I would likely leave it behind and loose it.

On the other hand, when I'm out and about with my current EDC, after using it, I always clip it to my shirt pocket. And I don't have to move it --- that is, take it out of my pocket -- when sitting down. It's always in my shirt pocket, whether sitting or standing. I'm a lot less likely to leave this behind, compared to carrying a light with headband.

With that said, I could imagine times I would use the headband, as I own a number of headlamps and I'm familiar with headlamp use. But, I see this thing as more of an EDC where I can hand hold it, or clip it to my shirt for hands free operation and for carrying.


----------



## mobi

> Does it go out without warning?



It hasn't happened yet.

Starting on the higest setting, it eventually stepped down to successive lower levels without flicker, and without cutting out completely.


----------



## Esko

Bolster said:


> OK, OK, I left off the implied qualifier, "Try reading a book at 200 lumens...*in low light*." Yes, of course you can read a book in the bright sunlight. But seriously, put 200 lumens on a book you're reading at night in bed. Not pleasant! And once your eyes adjust to the lit book, you'll see nothing else in the room.



Illuminating the target and leaving the surroundings dark just helps in consentrating. Like closing the curtains and investigating with a flashlight. Also, considering your last sentence, if the headlamp is the only light source, turning the light lower makes the surroundings become darker, too.



Bolster said:


> For your use, maybe you need more lumens. Maybe you need library-levels of light when reading a book in bed. If so, may I recommend a Scurion.



I didn't say that I needed hundreds of lumens for reading in bed. Didn't buy the cool white either, I am waiting for the high cris. I just wanted to point out, that good and adequate lighting makes things easier and helps in concentrating. It is more pleasant to eyes, too. For reading in bed before going to sleep, that is another situation. Using 200 lumens might be crazy. Then again, using a refreshing 6300K cool white light is already pretty grazy, too.


----------



## Bolster

Esko said:


> Also, considering your last sentence, if the headlamp is the only light source, turning the light lower makes the surroundings become darker, too.



It's pretty darned rare for me to be in a situation where there's zero ambient light (I can't think of one). If you go to a star party, where there is low ambient starlight, you'll find your surroundings appear brighter, the lower the level of your light. When I'm in a dark space (attic, crawlspace, under car, etc), I try not to use more illumination than the project needs, so that my pupil doesn't shut down more than necessary. Which is why a 200 lumen setting on a full flood headlamp for my use would be primarily of novelty interest only. If I need those amounts of illumination, I move to a different lighting platform. Again, right tool for the job. 

I meet a lot of people who over-light their work (IMO). I meet a lot of people who eat more than they need to, also. It's not dissimilar. 



Esko said:


> I just wanted to point out, good and adequate lighting makes things easier and helps in concentrating.



So, we just disagree on how much "adequate" is. For 95% of my full-flood headlamp use, under 100 lumen is plenty adequate. But I want it to be high quality light. Which is why I'll likely be very happy with a 130 lumen H502c.


----------



## MountainVoyageur

I have not looked at lights with various CRI. Can someone please help me understand, in practical terms, just what difference I would see between 502w/c/d? I am (obviously) trying to figure out how to decide between them.

Thanks.


----------



## Bolster

MountainVoyageur said:


> I have not looked at lights with various CRI. Can someone please help me understand, in practical terms, just what difference I would see between 502w/c/d? I am (obviously) trying to figure out how to decide between them.



High CRI emitters actually emit more of the full color spectrum. That means colors look more natural, closer to how an incan would render the colors.

Tint is supposedly another issue (but not entirely). Tint of Zebra's "w" emitters go toward the pink/sepia side, their no-suffix emitters go a little to the blue side, and we're guessing their new "d" is somewhere around the tint of noonday light, so it should be a little cooler than a "w" but not as cool as a no-suffix.

So high-CRI and tint are supposed to be two different issues. But here's the catch. In reality, a high-CRI emitter often has a warmish tint, also. [Edit: Informed the "d" is also hi CRI.] So it would not surprise me if the "c" version didn't look something like the "w" (or _maybe_ the "d", but I'm guessing more like "w") based on tint alone. 

Clear as mud?

What people are arguing about, is whether the slightly-to-somewhat better color rendition of the "c" is worth the drop in lumens compared to a "w" (or a "d" or a no-suffix).

Comparison and personal taste dictate which you'd like most. I'm a "w" and "c" guy myself. I guess I miss the incans.


----------



## gcbryan

Bolster I agree with you on this matter except for your comments that if you need a brighter light that's what a handheld is for".

If you need a headlamp you need a headlamp. I personally don't need more than I get from my H51f but then again I don't work on cars under the conditions mentioned above. If someone does however going for a handheld doesn't make sense to me.

People have different needs. Some read books with .2 lumen. I like 7 and sometimes 30 lumens.


----------



## Bolster

gcbryan said:


> If you need a headlamp you need a headlamp.



True. If you're doing search and rescue, or riding a mountain bike downhill, or kayaking at night, you need a really bright headlamp, as your hands are otherwise occupied. I'd still argue that asking for ever brighter full-floods isn't the answer to this. At that point, shape the beam. Use something with a reflector. (= My comment about handhelds, which almost all have reflectors to shape the beam forward). 

For many applications, however, ever-brighter headlamps provide me with diminishing returns. I don't find "the brightest possible headlamp" a compelling product for 99% of my uses. (A caver would correctly disagree.)

That people have different needs is my whole point. Don't ask the H502 to do what it's not designed to do. It's not "inadequate" at 130 lumens.


----------



## Esko

Bolster said:


> I meet a lot of people who over-light their work (IMO). I meet a lot of people who eat more than they need to, also. It's not dissimilar.
> 
> So, we just disagree on how much "adequate" is. For 95% of my full-flood headlamp use, under 100 lumen is plenty adequate. But I want it to be high quality light. Which is why I'll likely be very happy with a 130 lumen H502c.



There is plenty of tasks in which bright lighting is better than dim lighting. Generally anything that is related to precision, being focused, staying sharp, staying refreshed, etc. Then there is plenty of situations in which dim light is more adequate. For nighttime duties, the 0,2 something lumens from my H51c is unnecessary bright (pretty good if ceiling bounced though). 

We are talking about rather low lumen powers here. You can't say what is adequate in general. You should determine the situation, too.



Bolster said:


> That people have different needs is my whole point.



This is my point, too.



Bolster said:


> But the "c" should render more accurate colors (regardless the tint) than either the no-suffix, the "d" or the "w".



Not quite. Both c and d have the same cri, so, they should render the colors equally well. The difference is in color temperature. The d model is close to sunlight at noon (~5000-5800K), while the c model is in the middle of sunlight and standard light bulb (light bulb is ~2800K). So, d should make the colors look close to same as in sunlight (at noon), while c makes them look like in a mixture of sunlight and light bulb light.


----------



## tickled

Do I need lumens from a headlight? Has it been decided yet?


----------



## R11

Bolster said:


> High CRI emitters actually emit more of the full color spectrum. That means colors look more natural, closer to how an incan would render the colors.
> 
> Tint is supposedly another issue (but not entirely). Tint of Zebra's "w" emitters go toward the pink/sepia side, their no-suffix emitters go a little to the blue side, and we're guessing their new "d" is trying to estimate the tint of noonday light, so it should be a little cooler than a "w" but not as cool as a no-suffix.
> 
> So high-CRI and tint are supposed to be two different issues. But here's the catch. In reality, a high-CRI emitter often has a warmish tint, also. So it would not surprise me if the "c" version didn't look something like the "w" (or _maybe_ the "d", but I'm guessing more like "w") based on tint alone.
> 
> *But the "c" should render more accurate colors (regardless the tint) than either the no-suffix, the "d" or the "w".
> 
> *Clear as mud?
> 
> What people are arguing about, is whether the slightly-to-somewhat better color rendition of the "c" is worth the drop in lumens compared to a "w" or a "d" (or even a no-suffix).
> 
> Comparison and personal taste dictate which you'd like most. I'm a "w" and "c" guy myself. I guess I miss the incans.


How do you figure this? Based on the 5000K color temp and CRI of 85 I would think the D version would likely be the closest to true/natural color?


ron


----------



## How Goes It

tickled said:


> Do I need lumens from a headlight? Has it been decided yet?



Official Consensus  --- depends on the person and how / what they use their light for.

I mean, if I could, I'd like to have something that throws like a high powered HID.
Yet is also able to work as a flood with a perfectly smooth beam. And, I'd like it no bigger than a pocket EDC. Oh --- and I want a good five hours on high, without it getting much hotter than ambient.

And of course even dreaming of such, is ridiculous beyond belief at this point in time.

But it's not too crazy to expect something that handles a number of ones needs.

Say something like a very smooth floody -- something that is very compact, that can work as a pocket EDC, or as a HEADLAMP --- and with a great interface that can be dialed way way down, or throw out almost 300 lumens. Something like the H502. I can certainly see why some would like such a VERSATILE light.

Now if some like that lower lumen but higher CRI H502 (something that's a little more specialized in use), well it's great that Zebralight is giving them that option also.

But to me --- two of the model H502's, are sounding like two fairly different lights.
One --- 260 lumen.
The other --- 130 lumen high CRI

To each his own (need or want)


----------



## YoSeKi

There seems to be a lot of speculation about what use the H502 is best suited for from people who don't own one yet. 

I wonder what actual owners think. Having one, are they concerned about small differences in output? Can they see a noticeable difference between H1 (260 lumens) and H2 (160 lumens)? Do they think that the H502 would make a good outdoor headlight? I would like to hear their thoughts.


----------



## mobi

YoSeKi said:


> There seems to be a lot of speculation about what use the H502 is best suited for from people who don't own one yet.
> 
> I wonder what actual owners think. Having one, are they concerned about small differences in output? Can they see a noticeable difference between H1 (260 lumens) and H2 (160 lumens)? Do they think that the H502 would make a good outdoor headlight? I would like to hear their thoughts.



I use the H502 indoors and outdoors.

Outdoors in suburbia at night/early morning, streetlights, outdoor lighting of homes, and car headlights make it challenging for the eyes to dark adapt. Thus, the areas these lights miss appear darker than they would without these lights. The more light from the headlamp the better under these circumstances. Typically, I use the medium settings, and keep the highs in reserve. The strobe is useful for times like inclement weather.

I notice a difference between H1 and H2.

The H502 lights the way during walks, and also allows traffic to see me, including cars backing out of driveways. Another use is yard work.

Lately, I've been combining the H502 with the H51w, wearing one as a headlamp and the other around the neck.

And the low settings are there for reading under the night sky.


----------



## Bolster

Esko said:


> You can't say what is adequate in general.



I didn't say what was adequate in general. Actually I was pretty darned specific about what use I was talking about. My wonderment is that we have excellent new lights that blow away what was available two years ago, and we immediately have people complaining it's not bright enough. Amazing. Clearly no amount of lumens will be adequate for some people. Everything's Amazing, Nobody's Happy



Esko said:


> Both c and d have the same cri, so, they should render the colors equally well.



Is that right? I missed that. Well that's great!! So edited my post. Two high CRIs. Cool! Er, I mean ... uh, Neutral! ...and...Warm! 



tickled said:


> Do I need lumens from a headlight? Has it been decided yet?



Yes, you need about 600 lumens; any less and the manufacturer has failed to deliver a useable product. Any headlamp that doesn't require welder's goggles is a waste of your money.


----------



## my#1hobby

To those of you who have the H502, would this be bright enough to use mountain biking at night with the headband in conjunction with my Jetbeam cycler or would it really not add much light? I'm looking at it to add light to the sides since the cycler isn't full flood. Thanks guys!


----------



## Esko

Bolster said:


> Is that right? I missed that. Well that's great!! So edited my post. Two high CRIs. Cool! Er, I mean ... uh, Neutral! ...and...Warm!



:thumbsup:

The c model just got a boost in efficiency (from 130 to 145 lumens). Either the original specs were incorrect, or... :thinking:

edit: Actually to 142 lumens. The preorder pages with full specs are open, too.


----------



## Helmut.G

my#1hobby said:


> To those of you who have the H502, would this be bright enough to use mountain biking at night with the headband in conjunction with my Jetbeam cycler or would it really not add much light? I'm looking at it to add light to the sides since the cycler isn't full flood. Thanks guys!


I don't think it would be very useful at biking speeds, you'd probably need a reflector for that. What exactly do you want to see with the headlamp?


----------



## varuscelli

my#1hobby said:


> To those of you who have the H502, would this be bright enough to use mountain biking at night with the headband in conjunction with my Jetbeam cycler or would it really not add much light? I'm looking at it to add light to the sides since the cycler isn't full flood. Thanks guys!



If you're using the Jetbeam Cycler it might be good to consider another 18650 lamp like one of the ZebraLight H600 series so you can have the same (and interchangeable) batteries for both lights. If you're just looking for a broader, brighter, and longer running light in the vicinity of the front of the bike to complement the Cycler beam, the H600F or H600Fw would likely be better options for consideration (or even the H600 given its relatively broad spread). With a TwoFish Bikeblock or a DealExtreme Universal Nylon Mount for flashlights, a ZebraLight headlamp can even be mounted onto the bike, if desired (either to an extension bar or directly to the handlebar).


----------



## YoSeKi

my#1hobby said:


> To those of you who have the H502, would this be bright enough to use mountain biking at night with the headband in conjunction with my Jetbeam cycler or would it really not add much light? I'm looking at it to add light to the sides since the cycler isn't full flood. Thanks guys!



Wouldn't a Spark SD6 work better for that than a H502?


----------



## lampeDépêche

my#1hobby said:


> To those of you who have the H502, would this be bright enough to use mountain biking at night ...?



Just echoing Helmut, Varuscelli, Yoseki, and others: the answer is "no".

This light is not for all purposes. It's a pure flood, no throw, light cloud.

So far, I think Bolster has the best read on its strengths: it's a great light for flawless, even lighting within a 3-5 meter sphere surrounding you. Within arm's length, as he says, you don't even need to turn it up very much. 

So for anything indoors it's great; for working in front of your face it's great. Probably for walking around a campsite, possibly for walking on a trail.

But for biking, you need to reach out much further than 5 meters. I know you said you have a main light as a spot, but I just don't think this would add much utility for you.

Except as a way of *being* seen! As a way of making sure that cars can see *you*, I think it is terrific, and deserves a place on the handlebars.

But for adding useful spill down the road, I don't think this is the light for it.


----------



## thaugen

My H502 just arrived and I am very pleased with this latest offering from Zebralight! The tint does have a visible green hue on the outer rim of the beam, but this is only noticeable with white wall hunting. I normally prefer warm or neutral tints in all my lights, but the cool flood looks great with my kindle screen. 

I like the size, fit and finish is excellent, the adjustable levels on Medium and Low is nice and I really appreciate the new four click battery level meter. Well done Zebralight!


----------



## TyJo

The C and D versions are up on the website.

I was debating between the W and D versions, but the D is out now so... I just got the D version, guess I will see if I like the higher color temp with the CRI.


----------



## Bolster

YoSeKi said:


> Wouldn't a Spark SD6 work better for that than a H502?



Agreed -- with the optional reflector attached, perhaps?


----------



## my#1hobby

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the helpful responses. As varuscelli recommended, I went with the H600F. That headlamp sounds like it will be perfect on rides. :twothumbs


----------



## psychbeat

Hmm
XML in 4C tint looks very close to Nichia 219 
Obviously the XML doesn't have as high of a CRI but it's fairly subtle. 

A "w" version or neutral version with 4C or even 4A xml would be pretty nice.


----------



## varuscelli

my#1hobby said:


> Thanks guys, I appreciate all the helpful responses. As varuscelli recommended, I went with the H600F. That headlamp sounds like it will be perfect on rides. :twothumbs



I hope the H600F works out for you. Surely it will be better suited to that particular task than the H502 (not meaning to imply anything bad about the H502...just not thinking of it as having good potential as a bike riding light). You might report back to one of the H600/H600F threads once you get a chance to test it out...and regardless, I think you'll be impressed by the H600F for a wide range of uses (hopefully, among those, a supplemental light source to complement your Jetbeam Cycler).


----------



## pobox1475

TyJo said:


> The C and D versions are up on the website.
> 
> I was debating between the W and D versions, but the D is out now so... I just got the D version, guess I will see if I like the higher color temp with the CRI.


 Let us know. I'm contemplating a decision between D and W myself.


----------



## Mr Floppy

varuscelli said:


> With a TwoFish Bikeblock or a DealExtreme Universal Nylon Mount for flashlights, a ZebraLight headlamp can even be mounted onto the bike



Thanks for the picture. I was contemplating getting a HL51 but was unsure of how to mount it on the handlebars. My handle bars are not that straight. There is a slight curve all the way through. I think I may still need to get the SC51 though.


----------



## varuscelli

Mr Floppy said:


> Thanks for the picture. I was contemplating getting a HL51 but was unsure of how to mount it on the handlebars. My handle bars are not that straight. There is a slight curve all the way through. I think I may still need to get the SC51 though.



You're welcome. Just as a thought, regardless of the lamp used and curvature of the handlebar, my guess is that you could easily place a shim under the bikeblock or deal extreme mount where the mount meets handlebar. A soft shim made of rubber, plastic or wood should work (so as not to scratch the handlebar)...depending on the degree of curve the handlebar has. For instance, half a clothespin or two clothespin halves broken apart and glued together back to back and then cut off to short length. You could even wrap a bunch of handlebar tape around one spot on the handlebar as a shim (or electrical tape, etc.) to offset the curve of the bar and probably make a perfect spot for attachment of the mount with the mount straddling the tape and the handlebar...with as much tape wrapped on as needed to get the proper angle for the mount. Those are a couple of thoughts, anyway.


----------



## Ace12

Someone please post some beamshots from inside a dark room or attic.


----------



## lampeDépêche

I have been putting my H502 on the front handlebars for commuting, using a TwoFish block, but the right-angle kind instead of the parallel kind that Varuscelli is using.

This way the block clamps directly onto the bar, as his does, but the battery-tube of the light just hangs vertically below the bar, with only the head of the light above the rubber block.

I think this configuration would work with even a very curvy handlebar.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Do they still make the Twofish Cyclops Lok Block? I used to use a Maglite Mini Mag with NiMh batteries 10 years ago and thought that was a great headlamp for my mountain bike back then.


----------



## varuscelli

Beacon of Light -- yes, but I think a handful of years back or so the maker (or marketers) started referring to them as "cycleblocks" and got rid of the "cyclops" name. Or maybe they're variously referred to by both names. That confused me for a while when I was trying to locate one myself, but a search for twofish cycleblock will reveal sources for them (including slightly overpriced ones on Amazon). For one of our known sellers, I think Lighthound has them for a more reasonable price (but still under the old name, I think...not the the actual "name" of the item should matter than much).


----------



## TyJo

pobox1475 said:


> Let us know. I'm contemplating a decision between D and W myself.


Will do. I think all my lights use Cree emitters currently, which is why I was hesitant to get the Phillips Rebel D version, but I figured this light has many things that I don't have currently (90 degree light, headlamp, high cri with a high color temp, improved Zebralight awesome UI, and pure flood). I doubt I will be disappointed.


----------



## tony613

In case anyone is interested below is one way to mount a Zebralight headlamp on handlebars. My mountain bike bars are not as straight as these and this method works on that bike too. Additional cost is one shoe lace. The light has been used in strobe during late afternoon / early evening and switched to steady on once it got dark. 



tony613 said:


> Below is the H600 mounted on bicycle handle bars. The light is in its supplied silicon holder and attached with an old shoe lace. The head and switch are oriented toward the center of the bike so that my thumb can activate it and change modes while my hands stay in a natural riding position, much less require an awkward reach for the switch. The last picture shows the light is mounted slightly below the top of the handle bars which keeps it mostly out of the way, and it is still able to be rotated up or down if needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..........


----------



## bbb74

I preordered a 502c  My first all-flood, first hi-cri light, lets see if I like it... I am hoping that I like the hi-cri more than I "need" the extra ~80 lumens a 502w would put out.

Which rebel is in the 502c? Been looking at spec sheets and closest I can find are the 

LXM3-PW51 (4000K, 85CRI, 85 lumens @ 350mA, max 700mA - approx 157 lumens at 700mA)
LXW8-PW40 (4000K, 85CRI, 190 lumens @ 700mA, max 1000mA - approx 247 lumens at 1000mA)

For the 502d, there is no 5000K equiv of the LXM3-PW51, whereas there is a LXW8-PW50 which is 5000K, 85CRI, 200 lumens @ 700mA) ... which doesn't explain the jump from 142 to 170 lumens between the 502c and 502d unless temperature is playing some kind of part, or they are using the LXM3-PW51 for the 502c and the LXW8-PW50 for the 502d?


----------



## mobi

Bolster said:


> Understood. We need to find you a way to put some sort of modifying lens (or possibly reflector??) over the front of your H502 so you can use it with a little more focused beam, when you need it that way. I'll put my mind to that once I get a H502 of my own.
> 
> Just because Zebra has turned up its nose at beam modification, doesn't mean *we* have to.



Magnets attracted to the battery in the H502 can securely attach filters, or conceivably lenses.

Introducing the H502-T3200K (Lee Filters #204, Full C.T. Orange, "converts daylight to Tungsten 3200 K")









Magnet and filter ideas from

Zebralight Mods thread

Changing Led Tint with Filters thread


----------



## Justintoxicated

I don't know but my H51c isn't nearly as bright or warm as my High CRI preon. At first I liked it more, but the colors look richer with my preon when testing IRL. I think I also prefer the warmer tint in most cases. 

I think I am going to wait for the warm white version this time around.


----------



## varuscelli

I found it interesting to notice that the H502 is already being sold by a seller via Amazon as an Amazon Prime item (third party seller but with Amazon fulfilling the order). Several of my family members share an Amazon Prime membership, so I buy things under that membership once in a while...and I notice that the H502 is a "prime" item there (fulfilled by Amazon, free shipping and two-day delivery). Of course, the H502 is at full price of $69, so I wouldn't categorize this under the "good deals" category...but free two-day delivery is a pretty nice perk (if you're a Prime member, that is). Just noticed this when I was doing a standard Google search for H502 sellers. This just applies to the first released H502 and not the alternate versions as far as I can see.


----------



## Harry999

thaugen said:


> My H502 just arrived and I am very pleased with this latest offering from Zebralight! The tint does have a visible green hue on the outer rim of the beam, but this is only noticeable with white wall hunting. I normally prefer warm or neutral tints in all my lights, but the cool flood looks great with my kindle screen.
> 
> I like the size, fit and finish is excellent, the adjustable levels on Medium and Low is nice and I really appreciate the new four click battery level meter. Well done Zebralight!



thaugen,

Thank you for posting this. I am currently using the H501 cool white to read my Kindle in bed and you have confirmed my decision that I will have to get the H502. I am also considering the H502d because I find that leds with 5000k work great with the Kindle as well with the slightly warmer tint being easier on the eyes in the dark. I will wait until early July and then probably order both if early reviews of the H502d are favourable.


----------



## mr_magicfingers

Been lurking here and waiting for many months for the release of this lamp, now there's several versions to choose from. Having never seen a warm led or high cri led, this makes the choice pretty tough. My usage would be for work around camp at night, reading books/kindle in bed/hotels without disturbing my girlfriend and taking notes when working on dark film sets. Am I really likely to notice much difference in tint?


----------



## Esko

H502d preordered. I thought I might want to see some reviews first, but then again, I know I have use for this kind of light and unless it had something badly wrong, I would buy one version anyway.

5K is pretty much the CCT I have been wanting to get. So far, my only outdoor white light ("real neutral") has been a Shiningbeam S-mini with XP-G E3. As a bonus, this is high(er) cri. I am sure H502c would have been nice as a dedicated all flood light, too. But I would want to see the new tint myself anyway. 



mr_magicfingers said:


> Been lurking here and waiting for many months for the release of this lamp, now there's several versions to choose from. Having never seen a warm led or high cri led, this makes the choice pretty tough. My usage would be for work around camp at night, reading books/kindle in bed/hotels without disturbing my girlfriend and taking notes when working on dark film sets. Am I really likely to notice much difference in tint?



You have seen a cool white led and incandescent light. Compare them. The standard model is cool white and W and C models will be pretty much in the middle of those two. After that, imagine removing the yellow hue from the C/W light. It should be pretty close to D.

W and C should be rather close to each other. Otherwise the tints are clearly different, but eyes do adjust to the tint and especially if the headlamp is the only light source, the differences don't look so big. And personal taste has some effect, too. Still, IMHO for the use you described, you would benefit from something warmer than the standard model.


----------



## mr_magicfingers

Esko said:


> You have seen a cool white led and incandescent light. Compare them. The standard model is cool white and W and C models will be pretty much in the middle of those two. After that, imagine removing the yellow hue from the C/W light. It should be pretty close to D.
> 
> W and C should be rather close to each other. Otherwise the tints are clearly different, but eyes do adjust to the tint and especially if the headlamp is the only light source, the differences don't look so big. And personal taste has some effect, too. Still, IMHO for the use you described, you would benefit from something warmer than the standard model.




Esko, thanks very much for that, it's really helpful. I think I'll be ordering a warm when it comes out, seems to be a nice mix of easier on the eye colour rendition and light output. Cheers.


----------



## davidt1

It's hard to resist getting one, with all these positive user reviews. I will get the cool version too, for now.


----------



## davidt1

I would love to see a H502/H51F comparison. I think H502 is closer to the H51F than it is to the H501.


----------



## riccardo.dv

No news on the h502w?

Tapatalk @Xperia Arc S


----------



## ulfheonar

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I need an headlamp for this summer , I wanted that W , but looks like I wont have choice to order D , I hope to not regret it , I just received my eneloop XX , anyone can tell me how far 502 thrrows outdoors , I need around 15 meters , does 51 or 31 with reflector throws more , how much difference ?


----------



## biglights

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Looks interesting, I think I will have to check this out.


----------



## TyJo

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



ulfheonar said:


> I need an headlamp for this summer , I wanted that W , but looks like I wont have choice to order D , I hope to not regret it , I just received my eneloop XX , anyone can tell me how far 502 thrrows outdoors , I need around 15 meters , does 51 or 31 with reflector throws more , how much difference ?


This is one of the floodiest lights you can buy. If you need any amount of throw you might want to consider a reflector based light.


----------



## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



ulfheonar said:


> I hope to not regret it ...anyone can tell me how far 502 thrrows outdoors?



I really don't understand "how far does it throw?" as a follow-up question after buying a full flood. With no reflector, it doesn't throw. How far the flood will reach depends on how constricted your pupil is. If you want _throw_ you definitely bought the wrong light.


----------



## YoSeKi

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



ulfheonar said:


> ...anyone can tell me how far 502 thrrows outdoors , I need around 15 meters...





Bolster said:


> I really don't understand "how far does it throw?" as a follow-up question after buying a full flood. *With no reflector, it* *doesn't throw.*



He just wanted to know if it would throw 15 meters. 15 meters isn't very far. It's less than 50 feet.

I don't have a H502 and I don't know how far it throws. But it seems like a fair question to me.

I wonder what actual H502 owners think.


----------



## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Then we are using different definitions of what "throw" is. Most people refer to "throw" as how the reflector (or magnifying optics) manipulate the light to go a good deal beyond what the bare emitter does on its own.




YoSeKi said:


> There seems to be a lot of speculation about what use the H502 is best suited for from people who don't own one yet.





YoSeKi said:


> I wonder what actual H502 owners think.



I _am_ an owner... paid ... just don't have possession yet! But I think this thread is open to anyone who wants to participate in the discussion. Don't need to have it in my hands to tell you that the H502 is not a thrower.


----------



## YoSeKi

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*




Bolster said:


> Then we are using different definitions of what "throw" is.


It seems like it. I'm using the dictionary definition: to project, to cast. I also took into account the specific distance that ulfheonar included in his question: 15m. 

Forget for a second that he used the word "thrrows". His question was whether the H502 could project or cast light 15m. 15m isn't that far. It's barely 50 feet. Aside maybe from his questionable word choice and misspelling, it sounds like a fair question to me. 



Bolster said:


> I _am_ an owner... paid ... just don't have possession yet!


I should have asked what possessors of the H502 think. 




Bolster said:


> Don't need to have it in my hands to tell you that the H502 is not a thrower.


But having it or something similar would certainly help in answering whether it can reach 50 feet.

I read your Spark SD52 review and its output and beam seem like they would be similar to the H502. Can the SD52 reach 50 feet?


----------



## Jacklight

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I have an H502 and I would say it casts 15 feet. In my small backyard it will light up to the fence 50 feet away, and you could make out if there is rabbit back there but it would be a long stretch to say it throws 50 feet. It is an amazing little light, can't wait for my H502D to get here!


----------



## srfreddy

Well... ANSI standards calculate throw as when the center of the beam reaches intensity comparable to the full moon, so by that, the h502 would throw more than 50 feet.


----------



## Helmut.G

srfreddy said:


> Well... ANSI standards calculate throw as when the center of the beam reaches intensity comparable to the full moon, so by that, the h502 would throw more than 50 feet.


Based on what data? did anybody measure the intensity?


----------



## R11

LOL, too many flashlight nerds on this thread ;-). It seems he just wants to know if he'd be able to "see" 15 meters with it. I will say no. It will cast a bit of light 50', but I would say that that the maximum distance to actually be able to see things with any degree of definition and detail (on high) would probably be closer to around 10 meters at most. But that's really pretty darn decent for a little flood lamp though...


ron


----------



## Jacklight

+1 to R11
I am going to guess that it is brighter than the full moon at 50 ft but not a lot, maybe . I would also say that the full moon is a pretty poor light to see a trail clearly ahead at 50 feet. That just might be my tired old eyes, YMMV. So I'll stick with it casts a light 15 feet. My only complaint with the one I got is the blue tint, which is why I am giving it to my brother and I am getting the 502D. I'll admit to liking the HCRI much better than the cool white, I know I will never buy another cool white anything, period. It's probably a fluke, but did anybody else get a blue tint?


----------



## R11

Jacklight said:


> My only complaint with the one I got is the blue tint, which is why I am giving it to my brother and I am getting the 502D. I'll admit to liking the HCRI much better than the cool white, I know I will never buy another cool white anything, period. It's probably a fluke, but did anybody else get a blue tint?


The color temp of the straight 502 is fine for me. I was a little concerned it might be too blue until I actually got it but then felt fine after I saw how it looked. When it comes to things like photos/cameras and TVs I'm totally anal about accurate colors. But with flashlights it's far less of a concern though. As long as colors are not significantly altered and still look like themselves (albeit with a bit of blue tint), I'm ok. I actually prefer the cool tint to a warm tint like the W or C versions will provide. The D unit _was_ very intriguing as I think from a color perspective it would have probably been ideal, but runtime trumped out for me. It was a close decision though.


ron


----------



## ulfheonar

if I can see in a trail up to 25 feet it would be very reasonable for such a small light , anyone knows how far I can see clearly with D model M1 - 40 lumen , because it is the one I would use the most , H2 *110* Lm (1.9 hrs) / *72* Lm (3.3 hrs) / 4Hz Strobe, does 72 lumen is normal light or strobe its not clear ,


----------



## Helmut.G

I'll go out presently and test how far I can see with a ~40 lumens no reflector XM-L - stand by.


----------



## Esko

ulfheonar said:


> if I can see in a trail up to 25 feet it would be very reasonable for such a small light , anyone knows how far I can see clearly with D model M1 - 40 lumen , because it is the one I would use the most , H2 *110* Lm (1.9 hrs) / *72* Lm (3.3 hrs) / 4Hz Strobe, does 72 lumen is normal light or strobe its not clear ,


 I saw your first question before anyone had answered, but didn't want to answer, since I don't have the light yet.

However, to some degree, I agree with Bolster. This is a full flood light, and the properties of such lights have been discussed in this thread many times. If you ask about throw, that pretty much tells already, that you are looking at a wrong light. The light illuminates almost everything you see, and the center is only very slightly brighter than the periphery.

It might illuminate objects at 15 meters. However, at the same time the land 5 meters from you will be ~10 times brighter. Leaves and branches (and possibly the land, too) at 2 meters from you will be tens of times brighter, also in the periphery of your vision. If you want to see the trail clearly, you should consider the different H51F (or H51) models instead. The difference will be significant.


----------



## Helmut.G

Esko said:


> It might illuminate objects at 15 meters. However, at the same time the land 5 meters from you will be ~10 times brighter. Leaves and branches (and possibly the land, too) at 2 meters from you will be tens of times brighter, also in the periphery of your vision. If you want to see the trail clearly, you should consider the different H51F (or H51) models instead. The difference will be significant.


Esko is right with the bright ground directly in front of you, however the effect is less strong than I expected with a light placed on your head (or at the same height).

Seeing to 10 meters with 40 lumens just about works but will be tiring if you do it for a long time (except when you are looking at bright objects, they are very easy to see). Using a reflector you can see 30-60 meters (depending on the size) with the same 40 lumens.


----------



## pobox1475

Is there a big difference in tint between C and D versions?

My last ZL was a H30w Headlamp CR123 Neutral White and I'm looking for more 
output this time.


----------



## Diablo_331

pobox1475 said:


> Is there a big difference in tint between C and D versions?
> 
> My last ZL was a H30w Headlamp CR123 Neutral White and I'm looking for more
> output this time.



The "d" will be more of what many consider a "true neutral" while the "c" will be a very similar tint to your H30w. The "more output" part of your question may or may not be a little more tricky to answer. A hotspot will not be present, so to say, with a pure flood headlamp. The H30w will have an intense hotspot which to many non-informed folks may see as being more bright even though the flood light may be pumping out more lumens. I guess a good way to put it is that a reflectored light will be more impressive to a non-flashaholic because it has more lux, which is what many folks perceive as being "more bright". I hope that made sense. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong as I am far from an expert on the subject.


----------



## davidt1

applevision said:


> I got mine too and am in LOVE! I agree with all these excellent observations, *lampe*, and would add that I like it so much it is the first light to truly replace my H501! The low low is amazing too, and I have actually used it for reading in a pitch dark room--it was perfect for that for me. When you wear it around at night the feeling is even more intense than with the H501 that you can just SEE in the dark! It's like you have night vision! I wear glasses--thick ones!--and it has NOT been an issue for me with the 120 degree beam. I like it better than the H501 in every way and that is saying something for me!!
> 
> I also agree with #5... what to get next. We need our experts here to help us! *Selfbuilt*! *HKJ*! *Kaichu Dento*! We need a consult!



That's it. I am buying this light. A positive impression from a veteran such as yourself is always reassuring.


----------



## Diablo_331

davidt1 said:


> That's it. I am buying this light. A positive impression from a veteran such as yourself is always reassuring.



I cannot wait to hear your thoughts on the light davidt1! Please let us know what you think and, more importantly, what accessories you dream up for it.


----------



## RedForest UK

I think I am waiting for the warm version. This has been *the* light to look forward to for months now.

I would be interested to see pictures of the LED assembly on one of the rebel versions, and what the smaller LED (with rectangular ceramic base) looks like in place of the larger and square XM-L. I'm not a fan of the larger lense but if it works well it is ok with me.


----------



## applevision

davidt1 said:


> That's it. I am buying this light. A positive impression from a veteran such as yourself is always reassuring.


Whoo hoo! Thanks, *davidt1*! I'm using this light daily and continue to love it!



Diablo_331 said:


> I cannot wait to hear your thoughts on the light davidt1! Please let us know what you think and, more importantly, what accessories you dream up for it.


+1!


----------



## Mr Floppy

lampeDépêche said:


> I have been putting my H502 on the front handlebars for commuting, using a TwoFish block, but the right-angle kind instead of the parallel kind that Varuscelli is using.
> 
> This way the block clamps directly onto the bar, as his does, but the battery-tube of the light just hangs vertically below the bar, with only the head of the light above the rubber block.
> 
> I think this configuration would work with even a very curvy handlebar.



I had thought about having it this way but was not so sure about the bit that hangs below the light. With the H502, I don't think that would be a problem but the H51 might .. well I guess at most it'll only be 4 cm or less looking at the picture again. I think that solves my issue actually, full X-Y axis movement. Hmm, I was saving the right-angled twofish for the rear. 

Speaking of rear lights, is there any word on a H502r? No red XM-L that I can see yet ..


----------



## nakahoshi

Order Placed from ZL HQ. Cool White for me. Ill post my impressions when it arrives. 

Cant wait!

-Bobby


----------



## Outdoorsman5

riccardo.dv said:


> No news on the h502w?



I asked Zebralight when they thought the H502w would be released, and got this response last night:

"Don't know the dates yet. We are still waiting for the 'w' LEDs with the tint we like.

Sincerely,

Lillian Xu
ZebraLight, Inc.
8320 Sterling Street
Irving, TX 75063"


----------



## MichaelW

pobox1475 said:


> Is there a big difference in tint between C and D versions?


Yes, the D is cool-white, where the C is neutral-white.
3000K = warm, 4000K = neutral, 5000K = cool.


----------



## RedForest UK

I would say 5000k is still neutral, just leaning more towards cool than a 4000k, which leans itself more towards warm. 5600k+ is what I would class as 'cool'.


----------



## Bolster

I thought that 4800 (direct sunlight) was the dividing line between cool and warm...no?


----------



## Esko

Helmut.G said:


> Esko is right with the bright ground directly in front of you, however the effect is less strong than I expected with a light placed on your head (or at the same height).



True... Also, there is the human perception thing... 100 lumens light doesn't look like 10 times brighter than a 10 lumens light. It looks like it is just a few times brighter.



Esko said:


> 5K is pretty much the CCT I have been wanting to get. So far, my only outdoor white light ("real neutral") has been a Shiningbeam S-mini with XP-G E3...





Diablo_331 said:


> The "d" will be more of what many consider a "true neutral" while the "c" will be a very similar tint to your H30w.





MichaelW said:


> Yes, the D is cool-white, where the C is neutral-white.
> 3000K = warm, 4000K = neutral, 5000K = cool.





RedForest UK said:


> I would say 5000k is still neutral, just leaning more towards cool than a 4000k, which leans itself more towards warm. 5600k+ is what I would class as 'cool'.





Bolster said:


> I thought that 4800 (direct sunlight) was the dividing line between cool and warm...no?



And I have considered "neutral" as light in which white looks white. Not yellow or blue. That is why it was a bit difficult first to accept "led neutrals" (most often around 4000K) as neutral lights. But that is how it usually goes. ~5000K has often been called outdoor white in order to separate it from cool whites and 4000K+ neutral whites.

Also, I believe you mean direct sunlight _at noon_... I thought it was somewhere around 5500K. Some variation doesn't surprise me though, The CCT varies so much (in indirect sunlight even more).


----------



## varuscelli

lampeDépêche said:


> I have been putting my H502 on the front handlebars for commuting, using a TwoFish block, but the right-angle kind instead of the parallel kind that Varuscelli is using.
> 
> This way the block clamps directly onto the bar, as his does, but the battery-tube of the light just hangs vertically below the bar, with only the head of the light above the rubber block.
> 
> I think this configuration would work with even a very curvy handlebar.



You're right! The block you're talking about is the TwoFish Lockblock (as opposed to a TwoFish Bikeblock). The lockblock would allow the lamp to be held vertically on the handlebar. To offset the curve of the handlebar (if using a lockblock), all you'd need to do is rotate the lamp a bit left or right in the block (holder). 

Here's a shot of an H600 in a *TwoFish Lockblock*. 








And again (for easy comparison) an H600 in a *DealExtreme Universal Mount *(which is almost the same design as a *TwoFish Bikeblock* and is oriented the same way as a bikeblock).


----------



## Bolster

Esko said:


> Also, I believe you mean direct sunlight _at noon_... I thought it was somewhere around 5500K. Some variation doesn't surprise me though, The CCT varies so much (in indirect sunlight even more).



I don't know if this chart is helpful or not...it's calling 5500 "Day White." Whatever that means. I guess that's your "Outdoor White." 

At this link there's an attempt to show LEDs with the various colors...


----------



## R11

Esko said:


> However, to some degree, I agree with Bolster. This is a full flood light, and the properties of such lights have been discussed in this thread many times.* If you ask about throw, that pretty much tells already, that you are looking at a wrong light*. The light illuminates almost everything you see, and the center is only very slightly brighter than the periphery.
> 
> It might illuminate objects at 15 meters. However, at the same time the land 5 meters from you will be ~10 times brighter. Leaves and branches (and possibly the land, too) at 2 meters from you will be tens of times brighter, also in the periphery of your vision.* If you want to see the trail clearly, you should consider the different H51F (or H51) models instead.* The difference will be significant.


But that depends on one's particular situation and point of view. Understanding that this is a flashlight forum and therefore the mindset of most of the posters is probably a bit different from the person who doesn't generally carry a light around with them in their pocket at all times, or have a "stable" of lights to pick the best tool for the specific job. Sometimes a person might simply be looking for a nice, small, all around light to use for multiple purposes to which a flood type light (that can be worn as a headlamp if desired) makes a lot of sense. Then that person will likely also be interested to know how far it will illuminate enough to see into the distance for those uses as well... 


ron


----------



## tickled

It's best to avoid terms like "neutral", "outdoor", "daylight", or "cool" when it comes to these things and use actual K numbers because the terms mean different things depending on what you're talking about. FWIW the sunny/sunlight white balance on my digital camera is actually set at around 5200K.


----------



## Esko

R11 said:


> But that depends on one's particular situation and point of view. Understanding that this is a flashlight forum and therefore the mindset of most of the posters is probably a bit different from the person who doesn't generally carry a light around with them in their pocket at all times, or have a "stable" of lights to pick the best tool for the specific job. Sometimes a person might simply be looking for a nice, small, all around light to use for multiple purposes to which a flood type light (that can be worn as a headlamp if desired) makes a lot of sense. Then that person will likely also be interested to know how far it will illuminate enough to see into the distance for those uses as well...



It depends on a persons point of view, but if you are looking for an all round light, you want something in the middle. Neither full flood light, nor super thrower. These lights are great for certain purposes, but if you want the light to be useable in all normal situations, it needs to be something from the middle.



Bolster said:


> I don't know if this chart is helpful or not...it's calling 5500 "Day White." Whatever that means. I guess that's your "Outdoor White."
> 
> At this link there's an attempt to show LEDs with the various colors...


 
 (I guess you mixed your links (that link goes to the same chart you included as an image).)

I am not fully sure what you are trying to say, but I'll ad one link and quote from NASA (emphasis mine):



NASA said:


> All hot substances radiate light, either the visible kind or beyond the rainbow spectrum, in the "infra red" (IR; "below red") and "ultra violet" (UV; "above violet") ranges. This glow [called "*black body radiation*" by physicists--the glow of a body with no color of its own] is the way a red-hot piece of iron or the filament in an electric light bulb produce light. The hotter the object, the brighter it shines, and the further away from red is its color. Conversely, *the color of a hot object (if it is dense) tells us how hot it is. In the case of the Sun, the color of the photosphere suggests a temperature of 5780 degrees Kelvin* (degrees Celsius measured from the absolute zero, about 5500° C.)



In other words, the CCT of sunlight (without varying effects of atmosphere) is 5780K.

edit: Sorry, the links were not mixed.


----------



## tickled

Esko said:


> In other words, the CCT of sunlight (without varying effects of atmosphere) is 5780K.


 Type in "temperature of the sun" in Google! Try it!


----------



## R11

Esko said:


> It depends on a persons point of view, but if you are looking for an all round light, you want something in the middle. Neither full flood light, nor super thrower. These lights are great for certain purposes, but if you want the light to be useable in all normal situations, it needs to be something from the middle.


Well, my point was that just because a person wants to know what the effective range of a light is doesn't automatically mean they need something other than a floodlamp . As long as a light does what you want that's all that matters. The poster was just trying to asses the range of the light to make that decision. Personally, my definition of all around has nothing to do with longer throw at all. My needs are general, even lighting with no hotspots surrounded by useless fill. If I can get a flood lamp that also has enough power (with decent runtime) so I can see well within 30' or so it's the perfect all around light for me. 


ron


----------



## Bolster

Since ZL is following the marketing strategy of "a different light for every need," maybe they should consider making a 60-degree full flood. Would have some of the advantage of a full flood, and a little reach as well. (For comparison, 60 degrees is the beam spread of the SF Minimus--I think?--80 degrees on the H501, and 120 for the H502.)

Then folks buying a full-flood H502 wouldn't have to worry so much they were getting insufficient reach for their needs.


----------



## MichaelW

Bolster said:


> I thought that 4800 (direct sunlight) was the dividing line between cool and warm...no?


Warm being from incandescent [thermal] radiation. Cree uses the melting point of tungsten as their upper limit for warm, 3700K.
Philips uses 3500K-4500K as neutral. 5000K is the warmer end of cool-white.


----------



## Mr Floppy

Outdoorsman5 said:


> I asked Zebralight when they thought the H502w would be released, and got this response last night:
> 
> "Don't know the dates yet. We are still waiting for the 'w' LEDs with the tint we like.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Lillian Xu
> ZebraLight, Inc.
> 8320 Sterling Street
> Irving, TX 75063"



Excellent. Here's hoping it's the XM-l S6 90-CRI but would be happy with a T3


----------



## TyJo

tickled said:


> It's best to avoid terms like "neutral", "outdoor", "daylight", or "cool" when it comes to these things and use actual K numbers because the terms mean different things depending on what you're talking about. FWIW the sunny/sunlight white balance on my digital camera is actually set at around 5200K.


Well said. *This color temp thing is purely subjective when using terms such as warm, neutral and cool.... one persons neutral is anothers cool is anothers warm.* High CRI and color temp are separate measures but have been somewhat correlated in the past (High CRI emitters have traditionally been "warmer"). Zebralight is doing great by providing multiple options.

The regular H502 is providing the highest output with the Cree XML with a "cool white temperature", 6300K, and relatively low CRI (CRI 65). The D version will provide a High CRI option (85 CRI) with a "cooler/neutral temperature", 5000K. The C version will provide a High CRI option (85 CRI) at a "warmer temperature", 4000K. The W version will provide a Good CRI Option (75 CRI), with a "warmer/neutral temperature", 4200K. The C and D versions are using the Phillips Rebel, while the W and regular versions are using the Cree XML. Reference the Zebralight Compare All Models for further specs (including max lumens): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...authkey=CNqP6KIC&hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC#gid=0.

I hope that makes sense, if it doesn't do some searching on the forum and it will, there are some great threads explaining color temps, CRI, etc. (I don't think we want this thread to derail into a CRI/Color Temp battle/discussion, but rather stay on topic of this awesome H502 and its many options). There isn't a best emitter/version, it's personal preference IMO.


----------



## Mr Floppy

TyJo said:


> The W version will provide a Good CRI Option (75 CRI), with a "warmer/neutral temperature", 4200K.



I know that's what is in the spreadsheet but I read into the response that Outdoorsman5 got from Zebralight is that they are waiting for other W LED's. Unless they've run out of the W LED's they currently use in the HL600w, I'm hoping that it will be a warm white or better. I won't be disappointed if it was the neutral though.


----------



## Esko

TyJo said:


> High CRI and color temp are separate measures but have been somewhat correlated in the past (High CRI emitters have traditionally been "warmer"). Zebralight is doing great by providing multiple options.
> 
> ...
> 
> I hope that makes sense, if it doesn't do some searching on the forum and it will, there are some great threads explaining color temps, CRI, etc. (I don't think we want this thread to derail into a CRI/Color Temp battle/discussion...



Not to go to any detail any more, but just one clarification. This correlation/"tradition" is only true for leds and it has been due to both current led technology (blue leds and phosphors) and the limited methods used in the old (standard) way to determine the cri.



Mr Floppy said:


> Excellent. Here's hoping it's the XM-l S6 90-CRI but would be happy with a T3



That would be quite a surprise.  On the other hand, they have 4000K-6300K well covered, with some high cris included in the range. And some blue and red lights, too. The real warm white/incan white/3000K is pretty much the only light they are still missing.


----------



## Bolster

Esko said:


> This correlation/"tradition" is only true for leds and it has been due to both current led technology (blue leds and phosphors) and the limited methods used in the old (standard) way to determine the cri.



Not understanding...one more time please? Thanks


----------



## srfreddy

Bolster said:


> Not understanding...one more time please? Thanks


I think Esko means that LED design limits the CCT-CRI relationship, and also that CRI isn't the most accurate color rendering index.


----------



## tickled

TyJo said:


> Well said. *This color temp thing is purely subjective when using terms such as warm, neutral and cool.... one persons neutral is anothers cool is anothers warm.* High CRI and color temp are separate measures but have been somewhat correlated in the past (High CRI emitters have traditionally been "warmer"). Zebralight is doing great by providing multiple options.


 I was actually talking about context. Depending on context neutral can mean anything from 4000K-5500K, cool can mean 4000K-6500K, daylight can mean 5000K-6500K as I don't think there's any standardized definition for those words. Sometimes when people use these words interchangeably in place of the actual temperature, it can get very confusing.


----------



## moozooh

Getting back to the topic at hand, I've cross-referenced the luminosity specs of the base and daylight versions and added in the projected values for the neutral XM-L based on the bins ZL had used previously. Here's what I got:


H502XM-L6300 K260160100502512H502wXM-L4200 K22413886432210H502dRebel5000 K17011072402010Efficiency (H502d to H502)65,4%68,8%72,0%80,0%80,0%83,3%

Again, keep in mind that the H502w values here are *projected, not in any way confirmed*; they're based on the data listed in ZebraLight's specs for SC600 and H600. If ZL is looking for a better bin, these values are likely to be false (then again, consequently they might just turn out _even better_).

Anyway, look at the numbers. Note how the Rebel is a hog at high settings, only having 2/3 of the 6.3K XM-L's brightness, but it quickly closes the gap on medium, becoming virtually indistinguishable from the projected values for the 4.2K XM-L while still having a higher CRI. Considering that the use for highest settings on an all-flood lamp is rather dubious—unless your pocket is somehow always full of L91s—it appears to be a really good choice after all. I'll still wait for the actual 502w specs; if they happen to be even closer to the 6.3K values than what I've predicted it'll be a tough choice indeed.


----------



## Esko

Bolster said:


> Not understanding...one more time please? Thanks



The cri is measured with a set of test colors, most of which are pretty light and unsaturated. As far as I know, most colors are usually rendered fairly well by leds but there is one exception: bright red. It is rendered relatively badly, thus contributing to a relatively big drop in cri. Cool whites don't emit much red light. Warm whites emit more, which makes the rendering of red colors better (better = more similar to the colors rendered by a filament bulb of the same CCT).

-> some others

I believe ZL is the only manufacturer that produces high cri headlamps, the lights are offered in both high cri and standard cri ranging from 4000K to 6300K, and H502d is the first headlamp if not the first production led light offered in high cri at 5000K. The led is the only difference between the different models. I can't quite understand why discussing about the effects of cri (and cct) in a few short messages would be off topic. Especially since many members have been asking about the differences and trade-offs and have been unsure which model to buy.


----------



## saypat

sheeesh, has anybody received their headlamp??? How come nobody is posting any pictures???


----------



## riccardo.dv

saypat said:


> sheeesh, has anybody received their headlamp??? How come nobody is posting any pictures???



Or a video please, side by side with a h51


Tapatalk @Xperia Arc S


----------



## Jacklight

Sorry, i don't have pics, if I got the energy I'll try tonight after work. Never posted pics before so that could problematic. Anyway, this is a FANTASTIC little task light for anything. It's insanely bright if you need it, or insanely low also. The 120 spread is awesome, I have no glare problems at all and wear reading glasses for close work. The wall of light is huge, at 12 inches there is 3 1/2 to 4 foot beam. I love it. I use it at work in electrical enclosures and it is perfect for that. It is perfect for anything close.
I've tried it outside in the woods by work. If your picking your way on a faint trail you will need a little more throw maybe, and something incandescent like helps. On a well worn trail this headlamp would be more than adequate. It beats a mini mag which used to be the main light I carried hunting many moons ago, LOL. That WASN'T fun, and a lot of time's I'd lose the trail and end up having to cut through a swamp or some pine trees or blowdowns. I wasn't lost, just couldn't find the easy trail. Anyway, I digress. bottom line here is if you don't want to lose the trail get a decent incan or HCRI with both flood and throw, not this headlamp. 
It seems tough, I've dropped it a few times and it hasn't broke. It doesn't seem as prone to coming on in the pocket as the H51, it hasn't happened once to me, and I don't lock it out. My H51 came on a lot. My H-51 has a cracked lens and is also dead. This puppy seems tougher, time will tell. The fit and finish are Surefire quality to my eye. Oh yeah, it's even a little smaller than the H51.
It has a way to program sub levels, I doubt I'll ever use that feature. The six default levels work just fine for me. Someday maybe I'll play with that. 
In summary, the only thing better would be an XML implanted in your forhead, controlled by thought, and also rotatable like a zebralight.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

Someone needs to design a stick on lens to make a pure flood headlamp into a more focused model... maybe something akin to a fresnel lens


----------



## Bolster

Esko said:


> The cri is measured with a set of test colors...



Interesting. (And IMHO, totally *on* topic, given the choice of CRIs ZL offers.) I was aware of the orange/red deficiency in the standard LED, and thought they had trouble rendering blue-green as well. I've not actually seen the spectrum histogram for the high CRIs ZL is offering, however. Does anyone here know where it might be viewed? 

I believe SF also has a high CRI Saint available, the Vision. Other than ZL and SF, I can't think of other high CRI offerings in headlamps. I'd expect Spark to have something soon. Sure wished Quark would make a headlamp.


----------



## pobox1475

Lynx_Arc said:


> Someone needs to design a stick on lens to make a pure flood headlamp into a more focused model... maybe something akin to a fresnel lens


 Petzl Tikka XP's have this feature.



Esko said:


> It depends on a persons point of view, but if you are looking for an all round light, you want something in the middle. Neither full flood light, nor super thrower. These lights are great for certain purposes, but if you want the light to be useable in all normal situations, it needs to be something from the middle.


 My thought is to use a 502 supplemented with something like my JetBeam 3M XML or RRT-21 to give the best of both worlds.


----------



## pobox1475

Duplicate post, sorry please remove...


----------



## varuscelli

OK, my little contribution to the photos of the H502. This one is a gift for someone else, but while in my hands I'm taking the opportunity for a few photos. I do plan on getting one of my own before too long. 

H501w (left), H502 (middle), H600 (right).


----------



## Cunha

Its been a while since I posted my little write up.

I was able to compare my H502 with my brothers V10a XML side by side, and the H502 certainly has a noticeably greener outer rim that I can only contribute to the GITD "reflector".

With that said, I would rather have the GITD reflector than not. 

Everyone I show the light has been as impressed as I am, its one of those things that almost no one thought they wanted until they experience it and realize how limiting their throwy lights are in so many uses in comparison. 

I think an H600w or SC600w would be a perfect compliament to this light. I haven't bought one yet because I don't have a good li-ion charger so the initial cost is kinda high for the 18650 light.


----------



## moozooh

Outdoor beamshots, anyone? Please?


----------



## Cunha

What do you want to see Moozooh? A path in a dark wooded area to see how functional it is on a hike? Or how it lights up my porch?


----------



## CamoNinja

Cunha said:


> A path in a dark wooded area to see how functional it is on a hike?



This


----------



## srfreddy

Whitewall beamshots with a normal reflectored light?


----------



## TyJo

Esko said:


> I can't quite understand why discussing about the effects of cri (and cct) in a few short messages would be off topic. Especially since many members have been asking about the differences and trade-offs and have been unsure which model to buy.


If you are referring to my post I was just hoping that this discussion would follow how CRI/color temp/CCT/etc. relates to the H502, which it has. I have seen other threads derailed and closed because they turn into pissing matches of which is better and who knows more. There are many members who know more than I (and have corrected me, and I have learned alot) on these topics and I feel the CRI/color temp/CCT discussion is relevant for this light/headlamp, especially since it is offered in so many options. I have learned a lot in these dedicated "CRI/color temp/CCT" discussions I just wanted this discussion to stay relevant to the H502, which it has.


----------



## varuscelli

I imagine that the reason no one's doing beamshots (especially outdoors) is that no one has a camera with enough of a wide-angle lens to do the beam justice. A fisheye lens might be able to capture it, but that would foul up the true perspective. 

It looks to me that unless you're doing relatively close-up wall shots, you won't be able to effectively capture the H502 beam with still shots unless you stitch them. At four feet from a wall, I see a beam spread of about 12 feet side to side. No lens I have will capture that from the wearer's perspective...so you'd have to place the camera well behind the lamp...and then you lose user perspective. 

The thing I like about the H502 (just an initial impression) is that it really allows the user to take advantage of peripheral vision in a way that's unlike any headlamp I've seen. No tunnel vision effect. Personally, I really like that. To me, this headlamp is a winner.


----------



## mobi

varuscelli said:


> The thing I like about the H502 (just an initial impression) is that it really allows the user to take advantage of peripheral vision in a way that's unlike any headlamp I've seen. No tunnel vision effect. Personally, I really like that. To me, this headlamp is a winner.



That impression you describe is technically challenging to capture in a picture, as you noted. The 502 lights up the ground and nearby objects well, and even objects out to about 50 feet reflect a fair amount of light, and that can, with the right equipment, be photographed; but it also lights up distant ground and objects, and almost subliminally a large area in the sweep of the 502's 120 degree arc feels lit, without the eye perceiving (or the camera registering) much light in any given distant spot.

Ironically, the "502 effect" is most pronounced when the light is switched off, eliciting the "dungeon effect": the cocoon of light is replaced by encompassing darkness.


----------



## moozooh

Cunha said:


> What do you want to see Moozooh? A path in a dark wooded area to see how functional it is on a hike? Or how it lights up my porch?


Either would be better than nothing. I'm not very interested in the highest settings or the low lows per se, rather in the _difference_ between ≤100 Lm settings in lighting up an outdoors area within some small distance (I guess placing a couple beer bottles or something similar in size at about 2, 5, and 10 meters would do the trick nicely).


----------



## varuscelli

Here are a few shots to compare the beam spread on the H501w, H502 and H600. This is not intended to show a comparison of relative brightness. I had each light on high and just tried to capture the width of the beam of each. I find trying to compare brightness and what the eye actually sees is very deceptive in photos (almost never accurately revealing what the eye actually sees with too many human eye related dynamics involved for a simple photo to represent accurately). 

In any case, this ought to show how wide a beam you get with the H502 in a relative sense. For the beam shots, I was standing about 8 feet diagonally away (behind and to the side) from the spot where the headlamps were set. 

The headlamps were all placed in the same spot, 3 feet from the wall and 4 feet above the floor. 

Left to right: H501w, H502, H600








H501w






H502 (At 3 feet from the wall, you get an easy 12 foot spread edge to edge. The wall is 12 feet wide and the beam encroached on the side walls both left and right, even though not as visible in the photo as to my eye when taking the photos)






H600


----------



## CoherentRays

Wow, thanks varuscelli. That's a very clever way of solving the problem of how to see the beam spread differences.

I have a H502d on order from the U.S. Zebralight site and yesterday its status changed from "back order" to "in stock", so I may be getting mine early next week. I can hardly wait.

Ed


----------



## moozooh

varuscelli said:


> Here are a few shots to compare the beam spread on the H501w, H502 and H600. This is not intended to show a comparison of relative brightness.



Thanks for such good shots! H502's horizontal range and softness are impressive. Out of curiosity, are those maximum brightness settings?


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## davidt1

varuscelli,

Very informative pictures there! 

As great as my H501 was, I sometimes had to adjust the beam to aim it exactly where it was needed. The super wide beam of the H502 will make beam angling unnecessary. I think I will like the H502 just fine, despite that stupid, girly glowing thing.


----------



## varuscelli

Thanks, guys. 

Ed, that angle does help quite a bit, I think...but still doesn't have the visual impact that the user feels when the H502 is worn with the headband. For other uses when not used as a headlamp, this should give a pretty good idea of H502 beam spread. 

moozooh, I purposefully did not try to capture relative brightness in these shots. I just wanted to capture beam spread. I did have all lights on high, but used different camera settings as needed to show the beam spread without washing out the image (as would happen with the H600) or making it seem too dim (as might happen with the H501). I used various camera settings when taking these shots, so they're definitely not good for accurate brightness evaluation of any of the lamps.

davidt1 -- thanks!


----------



## moozooh

Ok, got it.


----------



## Bolster

Thanks Var! Very interesting. 

So the original H50 was 120 degrees (although there was a rare H50b variant with 80 degrees), then the H501 narrowed down to 80, and H502 goes back up to 120 again. Yet the difference is jolting in your wall shots. The H501 appears more even across its entire spread, but if you examine the central portion of the H502, the evenly lit portion appears just as large as the H501, then adds a falloff area around it. 

My issue when working in crawlspaces and attics is that tools go "missing" in the dark, so this extra wide beam should be very handy. Just conjecture based on your photos, but the H502's beam would seem ridiculously large for trail hiking. One problem with a very wide beam: it'll light up nearby objects and temporarily "blind" you with the reflected light. This happens to me often when using my SD52 in attics...I'll get near a joist and that ultra wide beam will reflect off it, constricting my pupil temporarily. Generally worth the tradeoff of being able to "see everything" when working, however. But could get annoying if you're going through brush or low hanging branches in the wild. 

Having seen these photos, and being aware of how many people want their headlamps for night hiking use, I'm wondering if an H502 will be issued in a "b" version, a la the H50--ie, a full flood of 80-60 degrees in width. I imagine something like a simple lens would do it. (Although the H51f should have that sufficiently covered? Don't own one, don't know.)

Of course, if ZL would have just _threaded that bezel...

_PS: Yes, the H502 would be great for "DavidT Carry" (around the neck, under the shirt). When I carry my H501 that way I notice I spend more time than usual adjusting the beam. Neck carry needs a really wide beam.


----------



## varuscelli

Bolster said:


> Thanks Var! Very interesting.
> 
> So the original H50 was 120 degrees (although there was a rare H50b variant with 80 degrees), then the H501 narrowed down to 80, and H502 goes back up to 120 again. Yet the difference is jolting in your wall shots. The H501 appears more even across its entire spread, but if you examine the central portion of the H502, the evenly lit portion appears just as large as the H501, then adds a falloff area around it.



Thanks, Bolster. And hey, I hadn't realized that the original H50 was 120 degrees. Interesting note. 

On the H502 and falloff, I don't think the falloff as viewed by the eye in person is really as exaggerated as the photo seems to indicate. To the human eye (at least, to my eye), it's much more even and balanced (smooth overall) in appearance. I think still photo images tend to exaggerate falloff in most beam shots. When wearing the H502 as a headlamp, falloff is hardly noticeable at all...especially compared to the beam rendition offered by the still photos. 

Although I do think the H501w has a smoother beam relative to it's overall spread, I think perhaps having the more powerful H502 on it's highest setting and at the same distance to the wall as the H501 (that is, so close to the wall) makes the H502 seem to have more of a hot spot (if that makes sense)...but I might be off in my visual assessment (just trying to express what my eyes see). And you're right, Bolster, that if you compare the same central coverage area of the H502 to the overall H501, the same central area of the H502 is very similar to the H501.

What I might be able to to this evening is compare the H501w and H502 in photos with as close as I can come to matching brightness settings and see the difference then. Will probably look much the same as Bolster says with the overall H501w comparing to the center of the H502, but with equivalent output settings it could make an interesting visual comparison.


----------



## How Goes It

Cunha said:


> What do you want to see Moozooh? A path in a dark wooded area to see how functional it is on a hike? Or how it lights up my porch?



How it lights up your unlit porch.

I'm curious to see how this thing can light up parts of my house.
For instance, if the electricity goes out, how good would this be at lighting up the basement, or garage, or outside the house, around the water heater. Or if there was some kind of rodent, opossum, or skunk outside, how good would this light be at lighting up an exterior wall of the house?

Some interiors of rooms and exterior wall shots would be great.
And the picture of how evenly it lights up a newspaper, such as the picture david1 did with his H501, while sitting in his car. That was david1, right?

---------
Steve


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## varuscelli

How Goes It: For home interiors, the H502 will light up just about any room wall to wall and back to front, depending on the direction you're facing. Enter a room door and the entire room will light up in front of you. When you're walking around in a dark house with the H502 on, the impression you'll get is that of everything you can see (well into your peripheral vision) is nicely lit. You don't have to "direct" the light...you just look ahead and there is everything lit up in front of you, basically bathed in a soft light. 

As I had mentioned a few posts back, one of the challenges of doing interior shots with a flood as broad as the H502 is that most camera lenses won't take it all in. I think just about the only ways it can be done is with a fisheye lens...or other extremely wide-angle lens...or setting the headlamp up and getting well behind it with the camera. But when you do the "camera behind the lamp" thing, you won't see the light as you'd see it when used as a headlamp on your own head. 

I wish more people would at least try to do beamshots (for the sake of those who want to see them)...but we're sure not seeing very many attempts.


----------



## Bolster

varuscelli said:


> On the H502 and falloff, I don't think the falloff as viewed by the eye in person is really as exaggerated as the photo seems to indicate. To the human eye (at least, to my eye), it's much more even and balanced (smooth overall) in appearance. I think still photo images tend to exaggerate falloff in most beam shots.



Understand! I've noticed exactly the same phenomenon when taking beamshots of floody lights. To the eye the illumination looks very even; in the photo you get the "directional flood" look and ask yourself, "Where did that that hot spot come from?" The eye has a commendable way of "photoshopping" a central weighted beam, doesn't it. 

Wish I could help you with the beamshots; my H502c hasn't arrived yet. When it does I'll do a color and beam comparison among the H50, H501w, Spark SD52, and then H502c...provided most of those comparisons haven't been done already by then. Anyway your beamshots (or "bimshotty" as I read in one Russian review) are a big help, thanks.


----------



## pblanch

Thanks for the beam shots varuscelli. I was following this thread as an interesting headlamp and progression of the 501. Have to say though that even beam covering such a large area has really impressed me. For close up work would be ideal. 

By the way not sure if you know but you have a big hole in your wall!


----------



## MountainVoyageur

Bolster said:


> Understand! I've noticed exactly the same phenomenon when taking beamshots of floody lights. To the eye the illumination looks very even; in the photo you get the "directional flood" look and ask yourself, "Where did that that hot spot come from?" The eye has a commendable way of "photoshopping" a central weighted beam, doesn't it.



Perhaps the effect is a rods and cones thing -- the human eye is more light-sensitive in peripheral vision than in focussed straight-ahead vision.


----------



## TyJo

Awesome pictures varuscelli, I'm loving the amount of flood this thing puts out. I just got shipping confirmation on my H502D, hope to report back soon.


----------



## CoherentRays

TyJo said:


> Awesome pictures varuscelli, I'm loving the amount of flood this thing puts out. I just got shipping confirmation on my H502D, hope to report back soon.


I got my shipping confirmation today too. And now the Zebralight website, after showing "in stock" for that light for the past couple of days, is now again showing status as "back order." I'm glad I put in my pre-order when I did.


----------



## Bolster

pblanch said:


> By the way not sure if you know but you have a big hole in your wall!



LOL! Possibly caused by the searing beam of that H600!



MountainVoyageur said:


> Perhaps the effect is a rods and cones thing -- the human eye is more light-sensitive in peripheral vision than in focussed straight-ahead vision.



Interesting hypothesis! Hadn't thought of that. Although, if true, you'd see the beam vary in brightness as you moved your eyes back and forth across it.


----------



## mobi

All shots taken with same camera setting.

H502 on highest setting, about 35 feet from house







Same shot with H51w on highest setting






H502 on high, and camera moved back from light, tree in left foreground cuts off some of the light






H502, camera moved to side






H502, light moved closer to house and aimed at tree, camera aimed slightly to left


----------



## varuscelli

Yes, I noticed the big hole in the wall! 

No, the H600 didn't s_ear t_he hole. 

It heated up the water pipe behind the wall, bursting it like an overheated boiler (the logical explanation). 

Sheesh...


----------



## Harry999

Nice beamshots! That H502 looks like a great light for light hiking and reading. I will be placing an order for a cool white and a daylight version next week.

Sent from my GT-I5800 using Tapatalk 2


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## Bolster

Excellent shots, thanks so much Mobi! It's not the light I'd choose for trail hiking, but to each his own. Truly a "wall of light," isn't it.


----------



## mountaineer1

just got my shipping confirmation for my 502d i can't wait


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## varuscelli

Here's another of the H502 outdoors. The H502 was set on a stand 10 feet from the doors of a three-car garage. The distance across the garage is 33 feet side to side. I stood about 10 feet behind the tripod to take this shot. 







I'm going to elaborate on the point the image captured by the camera and what's seen by the eyes once more but with a bit more detail. 

First, the photo doesn't show it well, but the periphery of the light carries beyond the edges of the garage (easily seen with the naked eye but not in the photo). 

Interestingly (and I paid close attention to my perceptions of this), I see the light falloff easily in the photo, but the falloff is much more dramatic in the photo than in person. Additionally, if I stand behind the lamp as I did when taking this photo, I do see the light falloff (live and in person) -- but not nearly as much as seems to be shown in the photo. And beyond that, if I wear the H502 as a headlamp and stand in the same position as the light stand in the photo, I can barely notice the falloff at all. 

There is a huge perception difference when the headlamp is worn compared to what is seen in the photos. Perhaps the rods and cones conjecture by MountainVoyageur is correct, but certainly the eye perceives the light differently than the photo image shows it....and the eye perceives the light differently up close (when the source of the light is right above the eyes) compared to viewing it from a distance (as where I stood when I took the photo). 

The photo below represents cheating a little bit by Photoshopping in a bit if fill light to help the edges without really increasing the intensity in the mid area, but if you look at the edges of this image compared to the one posted above, I think this one shows more of what the eye really sees at the outer edges (not seen in in the first photo). Of course, this will also vary monitor to monitor, but hopefully you'll see a difference at the outer edges of the garage in this image...and hopefully this is a little closer to the reality of what the eye sees. 







Edit: One photo added with a diagonal view (taken when the previous images were done). Light stand was 10 feet from garage, highest setting use, garage front 33 feet across). Again, I want toemphasizee that the eye sees better and farther into the periphery of the beam than the still photo indicates. You can't judge the true effectiveness of this wide-angle beam very well in photos.


----------



## psychbeat

^^^^^
Great job explaining and awesome pics!!

Floody lights are hard to capture- 
My biking headlamp has 2 bare hiCRI XPG @2.8a & 4C XML in SMO 3.5a
I was trying to get a beamshot of the flood but the camera was just getting the hotspot. 
Until these shots I thought it was impossible. 
Although mine is like an H600w +2 H50w all on overdrive haha 

Id bet with the 502 u can roll yer eyes down and still see without moving yet head 

I just scored an h501w on the MP for EDC in my guitar case. 

I might consider the 18650 & W or C of this when/if it comes out tho.


----------



## How Goes It

varuscelli and mobi, thanks for the beam shots. Much appreciated.

It's great to see how this light performs across this range of distances ----- 3', 10' and 35'.

varuscelli -- the bottom photo you adjusted to more approximate what the eye sees --- very nice.

Now if I could only get a picture like david1 took of him sitting in his car, reading the newspaper with his H501.
I'd really like to see how even and smooth the flood is on an H502 at this distance.

---------------
Steve


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## YoSeKi

mobi said:


> H502, camera moved to side



Can we get more shots taken from the side like this one? This shot seems to really show just how quickly the light intensity drops off. 

Can we get a shot like this for M1?


----------



## varuscelli

How Goes It (Steve): I don't have any pics like davidt1 with reading a newspaper, but I've played with the H502 a bit for the "at arm's length" and closer stuff. I tried it for reading and it's fantastic, to me actually topping the H501 (and the H501 has been my favorite reading headlamp by far). 

If you have reading material in front of you with the H502 on, you'd have to turn your head deliberately very far to one side or other to diminish the smooth/effective light hitting the page...and if you turned your head that far, you could no longer be reading the print anyway since your eyes would be turned too far away from the page. Hold your head how you want and read by scanning with the eyes only (regular reading style) and the page (book or newspaper) will be evenly lit -- small book, large newspaper...it won't matter, they'll all be effectively lit. 

The beam of the H502 being broader than the H501 makes it an even more effective reading light to me, comparing one after the other. The H501 is no slouch in these matters (one of the finest reading headlamps ever, I believe)...but I feel the H502 is an improvement for the up-close stuff with the extra added beam width. 

One area where the H502 might present a problem would be if you were reading in bed with someone trying to sleep next to you. The broader beam could actually be a problem in that kind of situation. So...it might not be ideal for everyone in every situation as a reading light.


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## riccardo.dv

mobi said:


> All shots taken with same camera setting.



wb was auto? the h502 seems to be warmer than the h51w


----------



## How Goes It

varuscelli said:


> How Goes It (Steve): I don't have any pics like davidt1 with reading a newspaper, but I've played with the H502 a bit for the "at arm's length" and closer stuff. I tried it for reading and it's fantastic, to me actually topping the H501 (and the H501 has been my favorite reading headlamp by far).
> 
> If you have reading material in front of you with the H502 on, you'd have to turn your head deliberately very far to one side or other to diminish the smooth/effective light hitting the page...and if you turned your head that far, you could no longer be reading the print anyway since your eyes would be turned too far away from the page. Hold your head how you want and read by scanning with the eyes only (regular reading style) and the page (book or newspaper) will be evenly lit -- small book, large newspaper...it won't matter, they'll all be effectively lit.
> 
> The beam of the H502 being broader than the H501 makes it an even more effective reading light to me, comparing one after the other. The H501 is no slouch in these matters (one of the finest reading headlamps ever, I believe)...but I feel the H502 is an improvement for the up-close stuff with the extra added beam width.
> 
> One area where the H502 might present a problem would be if you were reading in bed with someone trying to sleep next to you. The broader beam could actually be a problem in that kind of situation. So...it might not be ideal for everyone in every situation as a reading light.



That's what I wanted to hear.
That seals the deal.
I'm gettin one!
Likely even two or more.

Thanks Varuscelli.

-------------
Steve


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## mobi

Thanks, everyone.



riccardo.dv said:


> wb was auto? the h502 seems to be warmer than the h51w



Shots were taken with automatic white balance.


----------



## varuscelli

psychbeat said:


> ^^^^^
> Great job explaining and awesome pics!!
> 
> Floody lights are hard to capture-
> My biking headlamp has 2 bare hiCRI XPG @2.8a & 4C XML in SMO 3.5a
> I was trying to get a beamshot of the flood but the camera was just getting the hotspot.
> Until these shots I thought it was impossible.
> Although mine is like an H600w +2 H50w all on overdrive haha
> 
> Id bet with the 502 u can roll yer eyes down and still see without moving yet head
> 
> I just scored an h501w on the MP for EDC in my guitar case.
> 
> I might consider the 18650 & W or C of this when/if it comes out tho.



Thanks, psychbeat. And yes -- in my limited experience, capturing accurate beam shots is among the most challenging things for me...and I've got quite a lot of general photography experience. I personally don't find accurate beam shot capture easy, and I think all the variables involved make it a trickier thing to do that it might appear on the surface. Matching what your eyes see is no easy task in my opinion. 

I'm envious of you finding an H501w somewhere. I've got one and actually wish I had a second just to keep in reserve (for instance, in my OWN guitar case)... 



How Goes It said:


> That's what I wanted to hear.
> That seals the deal.
> I'm gettin one!
> Likely even two or more.
> 
> Thanks Varuscelli.
> 
> -------------
> Steve



You're welcome, Steve. I'd start with just one so you can judge for yourself. I'd hate to get blamed if you went all in and for some reason weren't quite as convinced as I am. 

Everyone's got different judgment criteria, so the H502 probably won't be for everyone. I feel good about it, though, for my own needs and wants in a headlamp. 

Hey, the H502 I bought is actually being given away as a long-overdue gift, but I'm testing it for a couple of days while it's in my hands before giving it to someone else this weekend (I really do want to make sure it functions perfectly, especially as a newly released lamp...it's true that some small percentage of ZL headlamps have had problems as new releases, so I have a tiny bit of caution in me related to that). I'm definitely buying one for myself shortly (ups and downs in discretionary cash flow, you know).


----------



## Bolster

Well hey...now's your chance to give it the dunk test in a glass of water! :naughty:


----------



## varuscelli

I've been seriously thinking about it, Bolster. Some folks seem to do that kind of testing with every light they get (every waterproof one, in any case), but for some reason I always cringe...although I probably cringe more at the thought of having to return the light than I do the testing.


----------



## moozooh

Hey, I see the rationale in that. It's better to find out whether the light is defective instantly rather than have it go out during a storm.


----------



## Esko

Bolster said:


> if you examine the central portion of the H502, the evenly lit portion appears just as large as the H501, then adds a falloff area around it.





varuscelli said:


> On the H502 and falloff, I don't think the falloff as viewed by the eye in person is really as exaggerated as the photo seems to indicate. To the human eye (at least, to my eye), it's much more even and balanced (smooth overall) in appearance. I think still photo images tend to exaggerate falloff in most beam shots. When wearing the H502 as a headlamp, falloff is hardly noticeable at all...especially compared to the beam rendition offered by the still photos.



The "falloff" is caused by two things. The spatial distribution of the led (which is rather difficult to estimate due to the convex lens), but also the distance. The distance from the light to the wall is greater in the periphery, and the light intensity is degreasing to the second power.

Human eyes have better dynamic range than standard camera sensors (and monitors) and eyes adjust to the differences better. You could use HDR photography to better represent the beam, but the image editing involved would be subjective.


----------



## thaugen

"One area where the H502 might present a problem would be if you were reading in bed with someone trying to sleep next to you. The broader beam could actually be a problem in that kind of situation. So...it might not be ideal for everyone in every situation as a reading light."

For this reason and the nasty green tint on my H502 is the reason it went back to Zebralight...I am going to stick with my H31w (with DC fix) for now.


----------



## climberkid

I'm pretty satisfied with the spread and distribution of the light. I just want to see the D version and I'll be ready to order it!


-Alex


----------



## varuscelli

thaugen said:


> My H502 just arrived and I am very pleased with this latest offering from Zebralight! The tint does have a visible green hue on the outer rim of the beam, but this is only noticeable with white wall hunting. I normally prefer warm or neutral tints in all my lights, but the cool flood looks great with my kindle screen.
> 
> I like the size, fit and finish is excellent, the adjustable levels on Medium and Low is nice and I really appreciate the new four click battery level meter. Well done Zebralight!





varuscelli said:


> One area where the H502 might present a problem would be if you were reading in bed with someone trying to sleep next to you. The broader beam could actually be a problem in that kind of situation. So...it might not be ideal for everyone in every situation as a reading light.





thaugen said:


> For this reason and the nasty green tint on my H502 is the reason it went back to Zebralight...I am going to stick with my H31w (with DC fix) for now.



Hmmm. I thought I had remembered you writing about how you liked it a few days ago, so I had to look again. 

That's quite a reversal. I mean, I'm just sayin'...


----------



## davidt1

My H502 came from Amazon today. Since I suck at taking pictures, please don't expect beam shots from me. Others have done a much better job than I ever could. 

Pros: I feel like repeating what has been said about it already but here goes....It's small and light, much smaller than the H51. This makes it a better neck light than the H51. It's very bright, much brighter than the H501. Beam spread is super wide, might be too wide for some people. I would happily settle for a 100 degree beam. 

Cons: these are minor and objective. I hate and detest that glowing thing. Don't need it. Don't want it. Anybody who is worth his salt to be a CPF member shouldn't need this gaudy feature to find his light in the dark. My H502 has a faint but noticeable hot spot when looking at a white wall. 

Conclusion: I like it a lot. Except for the faint hot spot, it's better than the H501. It's very bright. Let's face it. If everything else is equal, the brighter the better. I would bet that it is the brightest light for its size running an Eneloop battery. For up-close work there isn't anything on market that's smaller, brighter, and more versatile. 

First thing first: putting it through a waterproofing test.






Adding a metal base for magnets attachment. I use a thin metal from brake pads. It's the black one.





Reading is easy with the super wide beam. Note that the beam not only covers the book but the whole floor below as well.





The usefulness isn't just limited to reading. Working in tight spaces is a joy with this light. The magnets come in handy when it is not practical to use the light as a headlamp.





The entire area under the sink is evenly lit.





The H502 has immediately replaced the H51w as my neck light. The H51w now goes in a belt sheath.





H502 around neck





And H51w goes on the belt.






The H502 completes my light setup. Now I have an all flood light and a more throwy light. Seriously, there is nothing else I want.


----------



## varuscelli

I don't think anyone has posted a pic of this, so I'll do it. I can't really say I like the GITD reflector...nor can I say I actually dislike it. I do find it kind of a strange, personally. 

Does the reflector coating actually serve to help diffuse the beam a bit to keep it from having too much of a hot spot and to ease the transition from center to spill? I don't recall if any of this has been discussed. Perhaps this was a workaround to achieve what they've done to get the wide beam in conjunction with a reflector...(?) 

Maybe without this particular size and shape of reflector, the beam wouldn't have enough reach or be controlled enough in its 120 degree spread...and with a standard reflector, too much of a hot spot...so maybe with the coating, a compromise in the middle was reached. And perhaps the ZebraLight logic was that if they needed something to help the reflector do the job they wanted it to do, why not make it GITD? Just guessing.


----------



## thaugen

varuscelli said:


> Hmmm. I thought I had remembered you writing about how you liked it a few days ago, so I had to look again.
> 
> That's quite a reversal. I mean, I'm just sayin'...



I think the excitement of the new light didn't allow me to evaluate my H502 accurately. With some use the very wide beam and green tint on the edges became more of an issue.


----------



## tickled

thaugen said:


> I think the excitement of the new light didn't allow me to evaluate my H502 accurately. With some use the very wide beam and green tint on the edges became more of an issue.


 I know some people have said that it's unlikely that the GITD thing can cause a green glow, but when I shine 3 lumens on the GITD boot on my E03, in a dark room I can clearly see a green glow at least 6 inches out.


----------



## Beacon of Light

David can you explain how you attach the magnets? Looks like you might glue them but then the metal disk is permanent and I never like to modify lights without the way to bring them back to stock conditions. How is the magnet attached to the metal rail under your sink? I thought the magnet is just for the tail standing area and it looks like where the clip is you have a magnet attached to it or something?


----------



## varuscelli

Beacon of Light, if you slip a magnet under the clip (I use a round neodymium magnet), it will hold from the side. I think davidt1 (if I recall his old photos correctly) lets the magnet hold from the outside of the clip. I usually slip the magnet under the clip since I think it stays in place a bit better that way when detaching the lamp from the metal surface (that is, the magnet comes away with the lamp more easily when it's under the clip).

The neodymium magnet will even work with something as heavy as the SC600 (although it's a stretch, weight-wise). This shows the "under the clip" magnet use. It will hold something like the H502 with ease.


----------



## varuscelli

thaugen said:


> I think the excitement of the new light didn't allow me to evaluate my H502 accurately. With some use the very wide beam and green tint on the edges became more of an issue.



I haven't had as long to evaluate as you have (and won't have this one in hand much longer since it's going to another person in a few days), but I feel more in agreement with your first assessment...that the greenish tint around the edges (and there is definitely a greenish tint at the edges when you do the white wall thing) is only an issue in white wall hunting. In actual use, I'm just not seeing it as visible issue, especially when the H502 is worn as a headlamp. Maybe I'm just not as sensitive to the color around the periphery...I dunno.


----------



## Bolster

Var, that is an excellent shot of the glowing "reflector." Whilst I totally respect DavidT's opinion, innovations, and very clever carry style (if you've not tried it you should, it's just the ticket for certain situations, like travel and EDC), I must say I'm looking forward to the magic green glow. Always wanted a light with the glow near the emitter.

Prediction: DavidT will eventually tire of his ZL redundancy and carry a single H502, with some ingenious beam modification device that will convert it to a directional flood or spot/spill. Because so far the man's been relentlessly spartan in his carry.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Great stuff about magnet use here--I thought I had come up with the idea myself!

I agree with the principle of not gluing the magnet directly to the light--there may be times when I *don't* want a powerful magnet on it. (Nothing fancy or gee-whiz--I'm not a demining expert or a spy, I just have in mind times when I don't want to, e.g., wipe the data off my credit cards or something like that).

So I have 3/4" fender-washers super-glued to the end of my H600w and H502, and then I purchased some 11/16" neodymium magnets from K & J magnets. Plenty strong enough to hold the light in any position, even cantilevered horizontally from a vertical metal surface (which is the hardest challenge for a magnet).

I picked the 11/16" size for an additional reason: it exactly recesses into the shallow dish on the back of my Photon Freedom lights. The amount of metal in their coin-cells means that the magnet grabs them hard even without any modification. So the 11/16" magnet is a great size for attaching the Photon to anything.

But in particular, it's a great size for attaching to the back end of the ZL headlight! Now when I click my covert red Photon onto it, I have a great white-light headlight which also has a super-low red option whenever I want it. 

Reading in bed? I use the red covert Photon. Tighter beam angle, and the red gives me more black-white contrast at lower light levels than any other color. 

But it's still easy to pop off the Photon and slide the end of the ZL in and out of its silicon holder.

Of course, the Photon+11/16" magnet trick will work with lots of other headlamps. But it is esp. slick and compact with the ZL.


----------



## davidt1

Beacon of Light said:


> David can you explain how you attach the magnets? Looks like you might glue them but then the metal disk is permanent and I never like to modify lights without the way to bring them back to stock conditions. How is the magnet attached to the metal rail under your sink? I thought the magnet is just for the tail standing area and it looks like where the clip is you have a magnet attached to it or something?



Yeah, you are correct. The magnets go on the clip. Because you can rotate the light to any position you want, this is a better way than the tail cap.

More impressions:

For several times my H502 couldn't be turned-off. It skipped modes when I tried to turn it off. Removing the battery was the only way to turn it off. If this happens one more time, I will send it back.

The cool tint is not the best I have seen. I have once stated that I was a neutral tint convert. Why did buy this cool version? Because I wanted as much brightness as I could get. And this light does not disappoint when it comes to brightness. Now I want a neutral/warm version too. 

Did I say I hate that glowing thing? I now believe it produces the green edges. 

I like the 120 degree beam very much. With the H51w, I have to turn my whole body to look at something on the side. With the H502, a slight turn of the head will do. The benefit is even more pronounced as a neck light. With the H502, the beam can point straight down at my feet and there is still enough light in front of me to see where I am going. There is no need to adjust the beam, as is often the case with the H51w.


----------



## lampeDépêche

davidt1 said:


> .............
> 
> For several times my H502 couldn't be turned-off. It skipped modes when I tried to turn it off. Removing the battery was the only way to turn it off. If this happens one more time, I will send it back.
> 
> .................
> 
> Did I say I hate that glowing thing? I now believe it produces the green edges.
> 
> I like the 120 degree beam very much.
> ..............



I haven't had any hint of the trouble turning it off. Sounds weird. Contact problem? Yeah, by all means send it back if it continues.

Those who think that the GITD may be affecting the beam tint--does that add up in terms of the magnitude of lumens that are at stake? You are suggesting that when the LED is blasting out 200 lumens of white light, the GITD is producing enough lumens to make a ring of light around the edge that your brightness-dazzled eyes can notice. But if that's right, then when the LED is off and your eyes are dark-adjusted, you should be able to turn the GITD face to a white wall and see a large patch of green on it from the GITD. 

Whereas, even with dark-adjusted eyes, I can't get the GITD to make any kind of noticeable light-patch on a white wall a meter or more away. It just doesn't send out enough light for that--it is putting out far less than the lowest low, which is 0.01 lumens--so the GITD is putting out far less than 0.00005 of the total output. Since it does not make a huge green ring or circle on my wall with the emitter off, how can it be making a huge green ring around the edge with the emitter on?

Is the idea that the emitter is somehow exciting the GITD enough to make it contribute more lumens? Or that a tiny amount of lumens, less than 0.01, are polluting the other 200?

I'm just not seeing the scenario. And haven't other people referred to a more general phenomenon of an "XM-L green ring" that shows up with other lights that don't have GITD features?

I have to say, I don't have much use for the GITD face myself, and if they offered models without it I would not pay any extra to get it. But I don't mind having it, and I certainly don't see how it can be affecting the output of the emitter when the emitter is on.

The H502 has, in my view, all and only the weaknesses I knew about before buying it: it is a cool emitter (I will much prefer the neutral, I know) and it is a pure flood, no-throw beam.

But it also has all of the strengths I hoped for: tiny, compact, bright, and wonderfully even light. 123 performance from a AA format. You never feel like you are wearing a light. But magically, everywhere you look is bathed in a gentle glow of light. You feel like you are inside of a bubble of light, like you are Glinda the Good Witch or something. 

It's not for all uses, and it is certainly not for everyone. But it's an incredibly neat light to have for some purposes.


----------



## pjandyho

lampDepeche, 

This is what I have to say regarding the GITD and the green tint on the edge of the beam. You may have misunderstood and thought that the green tint could only come about through the emitted glow of the GITD, but that is where you may have gotten it wrong. Basically it is highly possible that the green is *reflected* off the GITD when the light is turned on. The difference here being reflected by and not emitted by the GITD. When reflection is concerned, the stronger the light source the stronger the reflected color would be. In this case, the GITD is green and so it reflects green onto the beam. Is that starting to sound logical to you?

I am not the expert here, but in photography I know that if I bounce my flash off a colored board I get exactly the color of light on my subject. Even though the GITD is not a reflector, it is inevitable that some light would spill over and get reflected off it.

And by the way, I don't see any green ring on any of my XM-L lights. And the Preon P0 which happens to have a GITD on it does produce a green ring on the outer edge of the beam, and it is not an XM-L in there.


----------



## moozooh

Nope, there is flaw in that logic. The light would have been reflected green if the reflector's _surface_ was green, but by itself it's white. If you point a flashlight at your mobile phone, you won't magically have the phone screen's contents in the reflection.

I suppose you could fully check that by shining a very bright beam through some thin GitD-covered surface (one of those headstraps?) onto a white sheet to see if the penetrating beam had been tinted in any way. I bet it won't be.


----------



## psychbeat

Too Bad they didn't use orange GITD 

Green tint is useable outside but can be unpleasant indoors....
To many of us  Im sure some like it.


----------



## varuscelli

If I take an H600 and shine it through one of the GITD holders, the entire beam gets a greenish tint. 

If I take a couple of loose GITD holders and wrap them together in a loop around the outer rim of the H600 lens in such a way that the H600 shines through the loop formed by the GITD holders, I can see a greenish tinge around the outer edges of the beam that looks very similar to what I see around the outer edges of the H502 beam. 

I agree with pjandyho in this. 

It looks to me as though the GITD coating on the reflector of the H502 could easily be causing the greenish tint on the outer edges of the H502 beam. 

I'm not making a statement of fact about this, but the visual evidence I see seems to point to that as a logical conclusion.

Edit: These are pretty rough photos of a very roughly executed experiment (H600 shined through two GITD holders), and the color rendition might easily vary from monitor to monitor, but with my eyes viewing in person I see a greenish tint around the edges of the beam. I don't know how well others viewing this on their own monitors will see it, but there's a definite greenish tint around the outer edges of the beam (more exaggerated in size but very similar to what's seen with the H502. 

I can very easily envision the light from the H502 emitter taking on such a tint around its edges based on the H502 GITD reflector.


----------



## Mumbojumboo

I like the glow. (MY wife said, "How do turn this thing off?" Me, " Ah, Yeah, it is off." I like the 120 degree spill. It fills in all the gaps left by my other lights.




mumbo glow by mumbojumboo, on Flickr


----------



## moozooh

varuscelli said:


> If I take an H600 and shine it through one of the GITD holders, the entire beam gets a greenish tint.
> 
> If I take a couple of loose GITD holders and wrap them together in a loop around the outer rim of the H600 lens in such a way that the H600 shines through the loop formed by the GITD holders, I can see a greenish tinge around the outer edges of the beam that looks very similar to what I see around the outer edges of the H502 beam.


If that is the case, it seems that the coloration is caused by portions of the light going _through_ the GitD reflector, reflecting from the underlying surface, and passing the GitD surface on its way back again, mixing in with the flow. In which case the possible solution would be to either make the back side of the reflector or the underlying surface light-absorbent so that the light that penetrates the GitD material doesn't return into the main flow.


----------



## tickled

moozooh said:


> If that is the case, it seems that the coloration is caused by portions of the light going _through_ the GitD reflector, reflecting from the underlying surface, and passing the GitD surface on its way back again, mixing in with the flow. In which case the possible solution would be to either make the back side of the reflector or the underlying surface light-absorbent so that the light that penetrates the GitD material doesn't return into the main flow.


 I think it can be more simple than that.


----------



## moozooh

Yeah, by taking out the reflector, but then you'd lose the GitD feature. Or did you have anything else in mind?


----------



## pjandyho

moozooh said:


> Nope, there is flaw in that logic. The light would have been reflected green if the reflector's _surface_ was green, but by itself it's white. If you point a flashlight at your mobile phone, you won't magically have the phone screen's contents in the reflection.
> 
> I suppose you could fully check that by shining a very bright beam through some thin GitD-covered surface (one of those headstraps?) onto a white sheet to see if the penetrating beam had been tinted in any way. I bet it won't be.


The reason why you don't see green in the entire beam profile is because the main beam which is still cool white is being projected by the domed optic on the LED unit itself. Maybe a small 20% or so of stray light from the main beam got reflected by the GITD, not strong enough to overpower the main beam, but enough to spill onto the edges of the main beam as the light start to fall off. Am I sounding logical enough?


----------



## tickled

moozooh said:


> Yeah, by taking out the reflector, but then you'd lose the GitD feature. Or did you have anything else in mind?


The glow in the dark material doesn't have to surround the emitter. I'm sure you've seen the glow in the dark o-rings that some people have added to their lights.

Personally after buying a light with these things built in, I find it adds nothing of value for me and would rather have an option to not have it. Even more so after seeing the drawback on this design. Worrying about a tint lottery is already bad enough!


----------



## pjandyho

tickled said:


> The glow in the dark material doesn't have to surround the emitter. I'm sure you've seen the glow in the dark o-rings that some people have added to their lights.
> 
> Personally after buying a light with these things built in, I find it adds nothing of value for me and would rather have an option to not have it. Even more so after seeing the drawback on this design. Worrying about a tint lottery is already bad enough!


Agreed. I think the GITD in the H502 is so lame. Give me tritium slots.


----------



## varuscelli

I still have to note that given the broad beam of the H502, the greenish fringe has little to no effect on actual use of the lamp. For white wall hunting, yes -- you'll see it. In actual use I seriously doubt it should bother anyone. I think most of the time for most uses, the eyes will be looking more toward the central to mid portions of the beam. 

And I still wonder if the GITD coating serves a functional purpose beyond GITD. Perhaps as ZebraLight was experimenting with variations they found that in conjunction with the reflector the GITD coating helped to diffuse the beam, so they achieved multiple levels of functionality with the coating. Just hazarding a guess.


----------



## srfreddy

The emmision angle of the XML isn't huge.... only 125 degrees. So the outer 2.5 degrees of the light are hitting the bezel and the GITD. People have said that there is a faint hotspot, so the GITD is probably reflecting white light forwards...


----------



## varuscelli

srfreddy said:


> The emmision angle of the XML isn't huge.... only 125 degrees. So the outer 2.5 degrees of the light are hitting the bezel and the GITD. People have said that there is a faint hotspot, so the GITD is probably reflecting white light forwards...



And perhaps the reflection off the bezel itself (from the GITD coating) is responsible for the part of greenish fringe on the beam. 

It'll be interesting to see what people say about the c, d, and w versions of the H502 in terms of the GITD coating perhaps having an effect on those beams. I wonder if the effect would be more pronounced with the cooler tint lights with the initially released H502 perhaps showing the worst effect...but this is far from my area of expertise. And I realize there are other factors involved (different emitters, different color temperatures, etc.)

Interestingly, if I take my old H501w and shine it through a GITD holder (with the holder completely masking the front of the light) I see no hint of green at all on a white wall. The beam from the H600 showed an obvious green tint when the same thing was done.


----------



## YoSeKi

srfreddy said:


> The emmision angle of the XML isn't huge.... only 125 degrees. So the outer 2.5 degrees of the light are hitting the bezel and the GITD. People have said that there is a faint hotspot, so the GITD is probably reflecting white light forwards...



The full emission angle is probably closer to 160-170 degrees. 125 degrees is the viewing angle full width half maximum (FWHM), or the off axis angle where lux is at least one half of the maximum. 

The XML should be twice as bright at center as it is at 125 degrees. That is enough to create a faint hotspot up close with or without the GITD reflector.


----------



## YoSeKi

varuscelli said:


> And perhaps the reflection off the bezel itself (from the GITD coating) is responsible for the part of greenish fringe on the beam.



Every cool white XML that I have seen produced a yellow to green fringe regardless of reflector material. I do not know if the GITD coating contributes to the green fringe, but I think the fringe would be there regardless.

I copied the photo below from another thread. It shows a bare XML without any kind of reflector. The green fringe is prominent.


SlowPoke808 said:


>


----------



## hemdale

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Hi guys,

So does the H502 has a more cool or neutral tint ? I'd like to avoid "too" cold or greenish / blueish tints.
Many thks


----------



## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Question: to the extent the "reflector" (I think it's more of a 'backdrop,' really) on the H502 is casting a tint, wouldn't it be casting that tint forward to the center of the beam? I'd think light at the edges of the beam would originate directly from the emitter, not arrive at the edge of the beam by bouncing off the "reflector"-- that would concentrate light forward.

Yet we're not hearing the center of the beam has a greenish tint. I'd suspect the emitter itself for a fringe of green tint, not the "reflector" (backdrop).


----------



## moozooh

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

My guess would be that only the rim area of the overall light cone emitted from the LED comes in contact with the reflector in the first place, so the small tinted bits that are lucky to get bounced towards the center are completely washed out by the pure light.


----------



## lampeDépêche

pjandyho said:


> You may have misunderstood and thought that the green tint could only come about through the emitted glow of the GITD, but that is where you may have gotten it wrong. Basically it is highly possible that the green is *reflected* off the GITD when the light is turned on.



Thanks, pjandyho! I think I understand better now the hypothesis that is being put forward.

Smarter people than me will have to see whether it is confirmed or rejected!

But I'm grateful to you for your patience in helping me see what was being proposed.


----------



## Esko

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Bolster said:


> Question: to the extent the "reflector" (I think it's more of a 'backdrop,' really) on the H502 is casting a tint, wouldn't it be casting that tint forward to the center of the beam? I'd think light at the edges of the beam would originate directly from the emitter, not arrive at the edge of the beam by bouncing off the "reflector"-- that would concentrate light forward.
> 
> Yet we're not hearing the center of the beam has a greenish tint. I'd suspect the emitter itself for a fringe of green tint, not the "reflector" (backdrop).



The reflector is far too wide and shallow to produce a collimated hot spot, but it could reflect the light (emited from ~120 to 180 degrees) to outer edges... My Fenix TK21 (XM-L U2) has a deep reflector which projects the sidespill to a collimated hot spot. While he hot spot looks rather white (slightly greenish), it has a wide corona which is distinctively green. The spill is a bit on a violet side. The led seems to be very similar to the one presented by SlowPoke808 (quoted by YoSeKi).

Once we get the c and d models, we know better.


----------



## MountainVoyageur

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

With regard to the green tint discussion -- is it feasible for someone to just (temporarily) cover the green GITD area and then see whether or not the beam still has a green fringe?


----------



## mobi

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I put the H502 on one of its low settings.

Looking directly at the emitter, straight on, the emitter looks white.

As the light is rotated, and the angle off center increases, the emitter begins looking a little greenish.

The same effect can be observed on a higher setting, viewing the emitter through a small aperture to reduce the amount of light reaching the eye.


----------



## hemdale

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Does any of the H502 owners could post a picture of the H502 beam shot ? That would be very helpful ! Thanks ! :thumbsup:


----------



## YoSeKi

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



hemdale said:


> Does any of the H502 owners could post a picture of the H502 beam shot ? That would be very helpful ! Thanks ! :thumbsup:



Several beamshots have been posted already. Go to Page 26.


----------



## varuscelli

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

All right, here are a couple more shots. Evaluate however you wish. 

H502 and H600 (both Cree XM-L, both 6300 Kelvin from the ZebraLight comparison chart). 

First is the H502 at about one foot from a white wall. 







The photo below shows the H502 (left) at about 5 inches from a white wall with an H600 (right) about a foot from the wall. H502 on high, H600 on a medium setting. Both lamps are probably closer to the wall than they'd ever be used in real situations, but I had to put them in a space with a while wall where I could get this shot...and our cramped laundry room was the only place with white walls. (The washer top was pulled out at an angle from the wall to put the H600 farther back and keep as cleanly rounded a beam as I could with both lights.)


----------



## hemdale

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Perfect ! Very helpful indeed !


----------



## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Var, thanks for more beamshots...! We owe you. Does the camera have auto color balance, and was it on? Because to me the H502 seems to develop a green ring once the H600 is in the picture...


----------



## moozooh

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Curiously enough, H600 seems to have the same greenish tint on the rim between the hotspot and the spill. Might be the XM-L's fault after all.


----------



## mobi

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

The emitter light is blue-green in side shot, distinct from GITD lime








See Canuke's post where he writes about


Canuke said:


> the tendency of some emitters to show varying tint at different angles to the emitter; in most lights, this translates to a warmer hotspot with cooler spill.


----------



## varuscelli

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Bolster: Yeah, strange. I did have the camera (in this case, just a little Canon PowerShot point and shoot)set to auto white balance and it could be that other color elements in the photo (especially the light from the H600) could be affecting the H502 beam appearance. There's only so much control I have with that camera, but it's what I had readily at hand. I should try others with a a higher-end camera with more manual controls so I can control shutter speed, aperture, ISO and white balance. 

I did two more photos of just the H502 by itself. Oddly, the closer to the wall I have the H502, the more green edge there seems to be. First shot is about 6 inches from the wall, second shot about 12 inches from the wall. These photos seem almost identical to those I got the first time around, even with the H600 included in one of the shots. 

By the way, I'm not a big "I like doing beam shots" kind of guy -- mostly because of inconsistencies like this where I'm not sure if it's something I failed to control, vagaries of camera interpretations or variances based on distance and surrounding scene colors, etc.


----------



## tickled

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



mobi said:


> The emitter light is blue-green in side shot, distinct from GITD lime
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See Canuke's post where he writes about


 In those pictures, are we sure that is an actual representation of its appearance and not a sensor/lens aberration?


----------



## RedForest UK

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

It may be worth noting that the Preon P0, which uses the same lense and small GITD 'reflector' shows the same Green fringe around the beam. That uses an XP-E. 

I would guess that if the green is something which the beam itself fades into near the edges then it is more likely to be due to the LED, but if it is something which is only evident after the sharp drop-off in lux at the very edge of the beam (like it is on the P0) then it is likely due to light reflecting of the GITD part.


----------



## davidt1

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I am sending my H502 back today. It acted strangely again. After being turned on for about 30 minutes it would cycle through all the modes without stopping, and turning it off was not possible without removing battery.

I would advise people to leave their H502 on for at least 30 minutes to check for this defect.


----------



## mobi

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



tickled said:


> In those pictures, are we sure that is an actual representation of its appearance and not a sensor/lens aberration?


The picture gives an idea of what is seen when looking at the emitter lens from the edge. I'm not sure at this point if the color is from a lens aberration, the emitter itself, the GITD, or something else. At first glance, it seems to be light from the emitter.


----------



## lampeDépêche

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



davidt1 said:


> I am sending my H502 back today. It acted strangely again. After being turned on for about 30 minutes it would cycle through all the modes without stopping, and turning it off was not possible without removing battery.
> 
> I would advise people to leave their H502 on for at least 30 minutes to check for this defect.



What mode did your light start from when it did this?

I know that I have had mine on for more than 1/2 hour in strobe mode, when I have had it on the handlebars during the day-time. No problem that way.


----------



## davidt1

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



lampeDépêche said:


> What mode did your light start from when it did this?
> 
> I know that I have had mine on for more than 1/2 hour in strobe mode, when I have had it on the handlebars during the day-time. No problem that way.



One time I started it on medium. Another time I started it on low. It gets even weirder. The light has turned itself on twice.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Here in FL we are dealing with tropical storm Debby, however we welcome her rain!!

Kept my 502 in my pocket yesterday, ready for the power to go out. Sure enough while I was prepping dinner, out go the lights. I didnt miss a beat, put the headlamp on and the 502 was perfect for chopping veggies and all tasks involved getting dinner ready. Unfortunatley the power came back on 20 minutes later. 

Only a flashaholic would say that.


----------



## pobox1475

climberkid said:


> I'm pretty satisfied with the spread and distribution of the light. I just want to see the D version and I'll be ready to order it!
> 
> 
> -Alex


 +1


----------



## lampeDépêche

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



davidt1 said:


> One time I started it on medium. Another time I started it on low. It gets even weirder. The light has turned itself on twice.



Earlier I suggested you should send it back to ZL.

Cancel that.

You should think about sending it to an exorcist, instead.

Perhaps you turned on the spiritual medium by mistake?


----------



## Bolster

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



lampeDépêche said:


> Perhaps you turned on the spiritual medium by mistake?



:lolsign:

Spiritual Medium? What's that, one of the programmable mid levels?


----------



## tickled

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



mobi said:


> The picture gives an idea of what is seen when looking at the emitter lens from the edge. I'm not sure at this point if the color is from a lens aberration, the emitter itself, the GITD, or something else. At first glance, it seems to be light from the emitter.


 It's too hard to tell from the given images. It could be sensor blooming or lens aberration that's exaggerated by the emitter being out of focus in the side picture. (It actually looks like the focus point is on the far edge of the bezel)


----------



## mobi

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



tickled said:


> It's too hard to tell from the given images. It could be sensor blooming or lens aberration that's exaggerated by the emitter being out of focus in the side picture. (It actually looks like the focus point is on the far edge of the bezel)


The emitter light seems to change from white to green as the angle of emission increases, and may contribute to the green at the outer edge of beamshots. The picture I posted doesn't capture the effect in its entirety.


----------



## davidt1

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

How does the H502 handle low battery? Does it dim gradually, or does blink?

Here is a video of my H502 blinking non-stop. This was after being turned on low for about 2 hours. Can't turn it of.


----------



## varuscelli

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



davidt1 said:


> Here is a video of my H502 blinking non-stop. This was after being turned on low for about 2 hours. Can't turn it of.



Not that it will matter for warranty/replacement purposes, but I wonder if the water dunking had anything to do with the strange behavior. 

Did you notice any of the erratic behavior before the water test or only after?

I know there have been other instances of ZebraLights not being as waterproof as they're supposed to be, so I'm wondering if maybe water got in via the switch boot (or elsewhere) during the dunk test. 

Just putting it out there for consideration.


----------



## TyJo

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I received my H502D today. I can't imagine a better headlamp. IMO the glow in the dark reflector is a completely non issue, it doesn't seem to provide any benefit for me, but also it doesn't seem to affect the beam at all (the small tinge at the edge of the beam is barely noticeable, and my SC600w has worse beam artifacts). I have never owned a headlamp or a high color temp with a high CRI. This thing rocks. I'm sorry I can't provide good photos, I don't have the equipment or the skill.

I'm checking the low battery issue currently, so far it works great, draining a battery to try right now....
UPDATE. I got the light down to 1 blink after checking battery status after 4 clicks from off. The light flashes every 7-8 seconds. It seems to be voltage based as the light recovered and only blinked once or twice, and stopped blinking once the battery recovered voltage. I ran the light on max to drain my eneloop some more and it continued to blink for more blinks, as I continued to do this it continued to blink more. As I continued to use the light more, the blinking time increased to 18-25 seconds between blinks.

Long story short, I like this thing. All features work so far, unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to play right now so I'll update as I use it.


----------



## varuscelli

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



TyJo said:


> ...the small tinge at the edge of the beam is barely noticeable.



That's good feedback! It's hard to say without seeing, but that would seem to indicate that the cooler H502 has much more green fringe based on the characteristics of the emitter (hope I'm expressing that correctly). 

Out of curiosity, if you hold it close to a white wall (say, at 6 inches or so), does the fringe tint seem about the same? That is, no more or less noticeable?


----------



## RedForest UK

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Does the small(er) LED under the same large lense look weird at all to you on the H502D?


----------



## Henry50

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

has anyone found a suitable holster? I'm keen on a small ultrafire (ebay cheapy) or similar to protect it from scratches.


----------



## TyJo

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



varuscelli said:


> That's good feedback! It's hard to say without seeing, but that would seem to indicate that the cooler H502 has much more green fringe based on the characteristics of the emitter (hope I'm expressing that correctly).
> 
> Out of curiosity, if you hold it close to a white wall (say, at 6 inches or so), does the fringe tint seem about the same? That is, no more or less noticeable?


Subjective opinion on my part it seems to get warmer towards the edge at 6 inches from a white wall. When used on a headband it seems perfect, but I'll admit I don't have time to critique it. In my limited time I love it.


RedForest UK said:


> Does the small(er) LED under the same large lense look weird at all to you on the H502D?


Yes. It looks weird because I have never owned a pure flood light but I am digging it.
EDIT: See my post above if you are interested in the battery issue, I updated it after testing. I don't have a lot of free time right now so I look forward to seeing your opinions and such when I do find the time.


----------



## davidt1

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



varuscelli said:


> Not that it will matter for warranty/replacement purposes, but I wonder if the water dunking had anything to do with the strange behavior.
> 
> Did you notice any of the erratic behavior before the water test or only after?
> 
> I know there have been other instances of ZebraLights not being as waterproof as they're supposed to be, so I'm wondering if maybe water got in via the switch boot (or elsewhere) during the dunk test.
> 
> Just putting it out there for consideration.



This might be a possibility, but I just don't know. I did the dunk test almost right away after turning it on and off a few times to make sure I have a working light. 

Anyway it's going back and I will be waiting for the H502w. I am back to using the H51w as my neck light/headlamp. My preference for neutral tint is once again reaffirmed by looking at the H502 and H51w side by side. 

Using them side by side, I have noticed that, while the wide beam of the H502 is great for many things, it is not great for everything. If you don't need to use the super wide beam, much of it is just wasted. I find that my eyes are distracted with the wide beam when I try to focus on something small at arm's length. 

I can't wait for the H502w though.


----------



## Jacklight

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Just a few impressions...
I received the 502D yesterday. The tint is flawless, ever so slightly warm, but nowhere near as warm as an XPG HCRI. I love the XPG HCRI by the way. The beam is flawless, and I don't have any change in tint at the edge, of course it is darker. My 502 on the other hand has a slight blue tint, and if your white wall hunting there is a slight green tinge on the very outer periphery that I would never have noticed unless someone pointed it out while I was whitewall hunting. In other words it is a complete non issue. Both lights are great, but I prefer the 502D over the 502. Tho 502D might be a little dimmer on max, but that doesn't bother me as I hardly ever use max. I don't think I'll be getting a 502C or 502W because I am totally satisfied with this. They might be better, time will tell, Sorry I don't have pics or beamshots.


----------



## climberkid

Jacklight said:


> Just a few impressions...
> I received the 502D yesterday. The tint is flawless, ever so slightly warm, but nowhere near as warm as an XPG HCRI. I love the XPG HCRI by the way. The beam is flawless, and I don't have any change in tint at the edge, of course it is darker. My 502 on the other hand has a slight blue tint, and if your white wall hunting there is a slight green tinge on the very outer periphery that I would never have noticed unless someone pointed it out while I was whitewall hunting. In other words it is a complete non issue. Both lights are great, but I prefer the 502D over the 502. Tho 502D might be a little dimmer on max, but that doesn't bother me as I hardly ever use max. I don't think I'll be getting a 502C or 502W because I am totally satisfied with this. They might be better, time will tell, Sorry I don't have pics or beamshots.



This is great news! The D version was the only once I was interested in and I think I'm sold! Thanks.

-Alex


----------



## Bolster

*H501w vs. H502c*

H501w on left, H502c on right. Trying to get relatively equivalent brightness levels so we can better compare tints. These photos are not for judging relative brightness.


----------



## Mr Floppy

Bolster said:


> H501w on left, H502c on right.



Oh nice. Looks great. I don't suppose you have a H51 of any kind do you?


----------



## Bolster

*H50 vs H502c*

Hi Floppy, sadly I don't own an H51, but I _am_ currently accepting donations. In lieu of that, I have other comparisons coming up. Note that on all I'm trying to match brightness level so that tints can be better compared. Again, camera set to daylight color balance. 

Here's H50 vs H502c, for you history buffs...the H502c was throttled back to a mid level to better match the H50's high...we've come a long ways, haven't we?


----------



## varuscelli

*Re: H50 vs H502c*

Bolster: Distance from garage doors? I'm guessing about two feet...(?) 

Actual color of garage doors? White? Or sort of tan?


----------



## Bolster

...and for you High CRI Quark fanciers... (The Quark Mini AA Hi-CRI has diffusion material on the lens, because we _likes_ floody beams...)






Interior of garage door: WHITE. Distance from door...checking... 17 inches.


----------



## Bolster

Spark SD52 Neutral White vs. H502c






First impressions: 

- As you can see I own other 120 degree lights, so the wide field of view doesn't come as a surprise, but it's very pleasant to have light everywhere the eye can see. 

- The 2AA SD52 and the 1AA H502c on high are close to the same brightness!

- The midrange 36 and 62 levels are where the gold's located, IMO. Decent runtimes (7.5h and 3.3h, respectively). Good long worktime with plenty of illumination for handwork. Much appreciated.

- Doubt I'll use the 142 high except to blind myself when turning it on. Many times I've used the press-and-hold to get to low, I apparently release a fraction of a second too soon and blast myself accidentally.

- Went for a walk with the H502c. Not a walking light IMO; prefer a narrower angle for that. However the bugs liked it. Very nice for examining flowers up close with the high CRI. Haven't gotten a chance to do a good comparison on the CRI yet but would like to, maybe tomorrow. Need to find some appropriately colored objects.

- The lows are a-ma-zing. So much flexibility on the low end and they're really, really dim! Looking forward to trying them out with fully dark adapted eyes. 

- Battery check works as promised, very nice feature. Four flashies for a fresh Eneloop. 

- The interface hides all of the nonsense. Not bothered by any strobes. Very nice UI. Also I'm getting used to the light remembering which level of L, M, or H I was in last. I'm often uncertain if I have a low or high version of the level I'm in, and must switch back and forth to orient myself. I might prefer a "no memory" feature, but can't tell yet. 

- Did they redesign the cradle? Headband feels comfortable.

- I like the tint. Sort of in the sepia direction, which suits me. It's nearly indistinguishable from the H501w's tint. I take psychological comfort in the warmer tints. When working in spooky crawl spaces the warmer colors are more cheerful. Clearly the SD52 replicates a neutral tint better, but when the chips are down and I'm stuck in a tight spot, I like the reassuring smile of a warm light.

- Do I prefer the H502c to the H501w? Hmm. Hmm. I like them both. The more reasonable midlevels are a big advantage of the H502c, (the H501w made you choose between 15 and 80 lumens!) but the runtimes show no particular advantage. But -- let me answer this question after I put the high-CRI to the test. At this point I hardly feel my H501w's obsoleted. Whereas the H50 is totally obsoleted.


----------



## DIΩDΣ

Thanks for the info and comparative beamshots Bolster. :thumbsup:


----------



## riccardo.dv

My zebra arrived today. I was so excited for it that I wanted to put it in my sink. This is what I got, thanks IPX8 

(sry for the pics, it is my phone)

















I contacted the shop for a rma, hope to get a real waterproof light next time :hairpull:


----------



## Bolster

riccardo.dv said:


> I was so excited for it that I wanted to put it in my sink. This is what I got,



Can you describe what happened? I can't tell anything from your photos, except you have a very green halo on the beam.


----------



## calipsoii

Bolster said:


> Can you describe what happened? I can't tell anything from your photos, except you have a very green halo on the beam.



Looks like a bead of water behind the glass in that 2nd pic.


----------



## riccardo.dv

Bolster said:


> Can you describe what happened? I can't tell anything from your photos, except you have a very green halo on the beam.



exept for the green halo (very noticeable) I have water in the lens! there is a drop on the right side of the lens and the beam is asimmetric. I'm very disappointed with this, it is brand new, and 30 seconds under 10cm of water shouldn't be an issue. Btw I wrote to zebralight and i sent them the light for an RMA, hope to get it back soon. Anyone has experience with zebra rma?


----------



## thaugen

Sorry about your H502...I have had positive experiences with ZL in the past regarding returns. You'll have to be patient, but they will eventually get in contact with you and should take good care of you.


----------



## riccardo.dv

thaugen said:


> Sorry about your H502...I have had positive experiences with ZL in the past regarding returns. You'll have to be patient, but they will eventually get in contact with you and should take good care of you.



how much "patience"? 1 month?


----------



## thaugen

It only took Lillian a few days to get back to my e-mail. They will take care of you.

I returned my H502 because of a nasty green ring. I was issued a full refund, but I had to pay for return shipping.


----------



## skyfire

great shots Bolster!
from the comparison pic it looks just a touch rosier than the H501w. are you finding the max mode on the H502c any significant improvement over the max on the H501w? seems like the extra lumens plus wider beam would equal out in terms of effectiveness.

i was getting pretty excited until is saw that big water droplet! what a deal breaker! even if it passes an initial dunk test, what would happen if i dropped the light on concrete? i fear it might not pass after that.:sigh:


----------



## nakahoshi

I have been using my H502 extensively for a few days and I have been very impressed. 

The green halo is a absolutely a NON issue when actually using the light, It only shows up if you look for it on a white wall. The XML tends to be this way with all my XML lights. A very small trade-off for the Brightness / Efficiency of the H502.

In actual use, the flood distribution is perfect, everything within reach is evenly lit. 

I for one love the Glow in the Dark "reflector", a quick blast on High charges the GITD and its actually brighter than the .01 Lumen mode, I think this is a very cool feature. Along with the GITD Head band, it helps locating the light in the dark. The GITD material is very bright. 

The Cool White tint is perfect for my needs. Pairing this light with my SC600, I have the ultimate EDC combo for work. 

And the lowest output, 3 months on one AA? That's outstanding. 

Very happy with my purchase!

-Bobby


----------



## Bolster

nakahoshi said:


> The Cool White tint is perfect for my needs. Pairing this light with my SC600, I have the ultimate EDC combo for work.



Oh I recognize you Bobby! The electrician who likes cool white. That is so puzzling to me; when I'm working on electrical that's when I want warm high CRI the most. There have been times with cool tints I literally could not tell the color of one wire from another and had to grab an incan. I work with an electrician who also won't touch cool, for that same reason. But I see the cool works just great for you. Interesting!

Have you dunked your H502 yet? I want to get a few more photos before I dunk mine.


----------



## marcis

Received my H502 today. unfortunately the green halo is present.. although I would not call it so much a "green halo" to me it looks more like the neutral tint on my Spark SD-52 NW. It's more neutral looking than green to my eyes. One thing I see, that I have not yet read on this forum is that if you hold the light 6 inches away from a "whitish" wall I can clearly see a "hotspot" which to my eyes is just the emitter, but it is brighter than the rest of the beam. Back to the greenish halo, I personally think the GITD ring is causing that. When the GITD is activated, and the light is turned off, I can clearly see a thicker green band at the edge of the light which looks responsible for the "halo". With all that said, so far I love the light. The cool white XML looks better than the cool white XPG in my H51F. To my eyes, and 2 hours of testing, it is no where near as blue as my H51F xpg zebra. 

I have not yet tried the dunk test, and I won't until I've had the light for a couple of days. Got to let the excitement of a new light cool down before finding out it does not meet IPX8 standards


----------



## nakahoshi

The CW tint of the H502 is perfect. I have never had any trouble telling wire colors apart (While using a flashlight) The colors are usually high contrast to each other (Black/Red/Blue or Brown/Orange/Yellow) and of course Green

Most of the time I'm using a light to work in or trace out gray cables in a dark ceiling. As a comercial electrician I sometimes work in unpainted concrete rooms or warehouse buildings. Conduit, Junction boxes, Jacketed cable ect. is all gray. Ever try using a Warm light In an all gray environment? It turns everything murky brown (In my experience) and gives me a head ache. Cool white doesn't do this at all. 

For outdoors use I have started using a Malkoff M61-219 and I am starting to appreciate the High CRI (Can you believe that?), but for my job I rely on Cool White. 

I'm glad we have options!



-Bobby







Bolster said:


> Oh I recognize you Bobby! The electrician who likes cool white. That is so puzzling to me; when I'm working on electrical that's when I want warm high CRI the most. There have been times with cool tints I literally could not tell the color of one wire from another and had to grab an incan. I work with an electrician who also won't touch cool, for that same reason. But I see the cool works just great for you. Interesting!
> 
> Have you dunked your H502 yet? I want to get a few more photos before I dunk mine.


----------



## Bolster

Color rendition comparison... top left box is red-orange, top right box is aqua-blue. I uploaded a much larger photo but it must have gotten downsized along the way. To my eye, studying the full size original, H502c does modestly better than the H501w on dark aqua, dark red, and dark purple. Also renders the medium-toned boxes a little better. Both of them blow away the old blue-tint H50. 

HONESTLY I'm not too happy with my attempts to show color here, never tried to show color rendition before, and would do a lot of things differently on the next attempt. Color swatches need to be larger, and similar colors need to be adjacent. Maybe these can hold you over until I get a better setup for color.


----------



## riccardo.dv

marcis said:


> I have not yet tried the dunk test, and I won't until I've had the light for a couple of days. Got to let the excitement of a new light cool down before finding out it does not meet IPX8 standards





Bolster said:


> Have you dunked your H502 yet? I want to get a few more photos before I dunk mine.



Hope for you that only mine was a defective model.


----------



## ibu

Is it true, that there will be no H502w but only H502, H502c and H502d?

The tint of the H502c is 4000K as ZL writes on their website.
That is almost the same temperature as of the H501w with it's 4300K.

Thanks.


----------



## Outdoorsman5

ibu said:


> Is it true, that there will be no H502w but only H502, H502c and H502d?
> 
> The tint of the H502c is 4000K as ZL writes on their website.
> That is almost the same temperature as of the H501w with it's 4300K.
> 
> Thanks.



There will be a H502w, but the release date has not been posted on zebralight's website yet. Zebralight told me recently that they are waiting on "the neutral tint LED's that they like" before releasing this light. The color temp is listed as 4200k on their website. To read up on this info go to zebralight's website & click on the red button that says "compare all models."


----------



## ibu

@outdoorsman5

Thanks for the hints.
Do you think it's worth to wait for the 502w, compared to the 502c?

It seems, that the 502w will have a higher maximum output as the 502c, isn't it?


----------



## davidt1

Waiting for the H502w here. It should be next in brightness after the cool version. I have a HCRI Quark Mini AA XPG. While I love the warm tint of that light, it's just not bright enough. A warm version XML should be a good compromise between brightness and tint. Also, keep in mind that, the more floody the light, the more diffused the beam intensity becomes. In other words, I need my flood lights to be as bright as possible to make up for that diffused beam intensity.


----------



## ibu

Thanks. So I will wait for the 502w too.
Unfortunately I never get a newsletter from ZL to know when I can preorder a lamp, though I'm registered for it. 
They can't find the cause for it.
Of course I checked my spam folder.


----------



## Outdoorsman5

I'm waiting for the H502w as well for the reasons davidt1 listed. I love my H501w, but have on occasion wished it were brighter & had a wider beam. Hopefully the new H502w will be just right & worth the wait. Also, the 4200k color of the LED is great, so I will wait.


----------



## Bolster

15 minute dunk. No effect so far, other than a slightly cleaner ZL. Will report if anything turns up...

DavidT, how long was your dunk test?


----------



## YoSeKi

Bolster said:


> - Did they redesign the cradle? Headband feels comfortable.



Could someone post a close up photograph of the cradle?


----------



## davidt1

Bolster said:


> 15 minute dunk. No effect so far, other than a slightly cleaner ZL. Will report if anything turns up...
> 
> DavidT, how long was your dunk test?



2 hours.

After your dunk test, I recommend running it on low or medium until the battery dies to make sure you don't have a unit like mine. Though I am pretty sure mine was a lemon and not a typical ZL light.


----------



## Bolster

Wow, that's more like a dive test than a dunk test. OK, running on low, thanks.

Just discovered the H502 will head stand as well as tail stand. 

And on a dying battery, it'll go to H2 but not H1.


----------



## riccardo.dv

You tried to turn it on and off while underwater?


Tapatalk @Xperia Arc S


----------



## davidt1

Bolster said:


> Var, that is an excellent shot of the glowing "reflector." Whilst I totally respect DavidT's opinion, innovations, and very clever carry style (if you've not tried it you should, it's just the ticket for certain situations, like travel and EDC), I must say I'm looking forward to the magic green glow. Always wanted a light with the glow near the emitter.
> 
> Prediction: DavidT will eventually tire of his ZL redundancy and carry a single H502, with some ingenious beam modification device that will convert it to a directional flood or spot/spill. Because so far the man's been relentlessly spartan in his carry.



Actually I love the idea of carrying 2 ZL angled lights. What would be the best backup for your ZL angled light? Another ZL angled light, of course.


----------



## Burntrice

Loving mine, great little light.


----------



## davidt1

Nice pictures!

Nice little light, huh? If mine wasn't defective, I would have kept it. 

The first beam shot sure shows the neutral hot spot surrounded by the cool beam with green edges. I can't wait for the H502w. I think the hot spot and green edges will disappear with warm version.


----------



## thaugen

davidt1 said:


> I think the hot spot and green edges will disappear with warm version.



I sure hope it does. I agree this would be a great light without the green edges in the tint.


----------



## Calcustom

Its a great light. The green edges aren't really an issue, unless your white wall hunting


----------



## nakahoshi

Calcustom said:


> Its a great light. The green edges aren't really an issue, unless your white wall hunting



+10

I have been using this light every day for about 2 weeks now (Especially during emergency calls over the weekend) and the "green edges" are NOT an issue, I never once thought about it or even noticed it. If your going to sit on your couch and hunt for white walls I suggest you don't buy this ZL. 
-Bobby


----------



## climberkid

Even with all of these great impressions and the form factor of the zebralight that I love, I cannot for the life of me commit to buy. I have had it in my cart literally 7 times I cannot pull the trigger. Its bothering me that I'm having such a hard time with a light I both need and know. Anyone have any more good things to say to ready Mr in the right direction for just long enough? This its making me sad, I'm just at a mental brick wall.
Thanks,

-Alex


----------



## davidt1

If you are not sure which light you want and don't need one right away, wait a while longer. Zebralight is known for making continuous refinements to their products. By the times you buy, say, in a few weeks, they might have improved on the waterproofing their new lights and gotten rid of that atrocious GITD thing.


----------



## brianb6603

climberkid said:


> Even with all of these great impressions and the form factor of the zebralight that I love, I cannot for the life of me commit to buy. I have had it in my cart literally 7 times I cannot pull the trigger. Its bothering me that I'm having such a hard time with a light I both need and know. Anyone have any more good things to say to ready Mr in the right direction for just long enough? This its making me sad, I'm just at a mental brick wall.
> Thanks,
> 
> -Alex



I have had my H502 for 3+ weeks now. My H51 was my primary EDC (along with a Quark AA2 W, yes I carry 2 lights every day). The H502 has exceeded my expectations on every front. I can see the green band only up close to a white wall. When used properly (clipped to shirt or in head band) the light is even and bright and it is impossible to see any color variation. The 260lm setting is very good for impressing people but otherwise is too bright for full darkness. I leave it on at the .01lm level on my bedside table but turn it away from my face. It actually is enough light to keep the toes safe if you get up during the late night. I have only done a quick dunk test, not an extended drowning but no apparent leakage has occurred. As has been said, this is not a do everything light (I do carry 2 very different lights) but 90% of the time I reach for the H502 first, it's just that useful. Do I wish I had waited for the c, d, or w, not so much. I may give this one to my wife and pick up the w, we'll see. My advice, pick your color and buy it. You will be glad you did.


----------



## climberkid

davidt1 said:


> If you are not sure which light you want and don't need one right away, wait a while longer. Zebralight is known for making continuous refinements to their products. By the times you buy, say, in a few weeks, they might have improved on the waterproofing their new lights and gotten rid of that atrocious GITD thing.



Haha thanks David. I think that's my plan right now. I have a Sunwayman on the way that fills several gaps in my collection. Hoping that will do what I need or he time being.


-Alex


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



davidt1 said:


> This might be a possibility, but I just don't know. I did the dunk test almost right away after turning it on and off a few times to make sure I have a working light.
> 
> Anyway it's going back and I will be waiting for the H502w. I am back to using the H51w as my neck light/headlamp. My preference for neutral tint is once again reaffirmed by looking at the H502 and H51w side by side.
> 
> Using them side by side, I have noticed that, while the wide beam of the H502 is great for many things, it is not great for everything. If you don't need to use the super wide beam, much of it is just wasted. I find that my eyes are distracted with the wide beam when I try to focus on something small at arm's length.
> 
> I can't wait for the H502w though.



I will be holding off for the w as well but need to read up on the other options.


----------



## B0wz3r

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

The 502c is now at the top of my list of new lights to get. Not sure if it'll go in my hiking pack (I always keep a headlamp in it, right now it's my Spark ST5-190), or in my EDC bag. I'll have to wait and see how it works for me first.


----------



## pjandyho

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Not sure if I want the D or the C. I love the slightly warmer tint but I am also curious to see how 5000k hi CRI would be like.


----------



## Esko

thaugen said:


> davidt1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the hot spot and green edges will disappear with warm version.
> 
> 
> 
> I sure hope it does. I agree this would be a great light without the green edges in the tint.
Click to expand...


Hot spot?

I don't believe that the green edges will disappear, they might just change to yellow. There is some variation in my NW Spark beams too, it just seems to be a feature in XM-L. That said, It doesn't really matter much in practical use, and yellow would be more pleasant than green anyway.

I got my 502d a few days ago. Very nice light and very nice beam color. They have also added a place for a top strap to the holder (a rather thin place but a place anyway). 502c would probably be more pleasant to use on lower levels though, I might consider buing that later, too.


----------



## Beacon of Light

is the H502D closer to cool white or neutral?



Esko said:


> Hot spot?
> 
> I don't believe that the green edges will disappear, they might just change to yellow. There is some variation in my NW Spark beams too, it just seems to be a feature in XM-L. That said, It doesn't really matter much in practical use, and yellow would be more pleasant than green anyway.
> 
> I got my 502d a few days ago. Very nice light and very nice beam color. They have also added a place for a top strap to the holder (a rather thin place but a place anyway). 502c would probably be more pleasant to use on lower levels though, I might consider buing that later, too.


----------



## wuyeah

What is difference between 502w/502c? I couldn't find 502w any where...
The w=warm (neutral light) and what does the "c" stands for? The 502c appear to be warm tint light from beam shot everyone is providing but it is not a XM-L and does not provide over 200Lm count.
My understand H502d is neither cool white or neutral...since I had H31F for short period of time, the cool white beam has purple-ish beam tint and neutral is def yellow-ish tint. I would imagine H502d would be not as blue as cool white, not as yellow as neutral.
If someone could confirm the H502d color that would be great.


----------



## varuscelli

wuyeah said:


> I couldn't find 502w any where...



wuyeah: You mean you couldn't find the specs or couldn't find it for sale? 

If the description/specs, you'll just need to look at the ZebraLight "Compare All Models" chart (viewable from any page on their site). 

Since it's not released yet, that's probably the best you can do at the moment.


----------



## wuyeah

varuscelli said:


> wuyeah: You mean you couldn't find the specs or couldn't find it for sale?
> 
> If the description/specs, you'll just need to look at the ZebraLight "Compare All Models" chart (viewable from any page on their site).
> 
> Since it's not released yet, that's probably the best you can do at the moment.



Oh, no wonder. and spec brightness data is also N/A right!?


----------



## varuscelli

There was some interesting speculation earlier in this thread (a couple of weeks ago) about where the output of the H502w should fall. 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ht-H502-XM-L&p=3968365&viewfull=1#post3968365


----------



## Esko

Beacon of Light said:


> is the H502D closer to cool white or neutral?



This is a good question. When on higher modes, it just looked pretty white. On lower modes, it looked a bit cool, but I thought it might be because all my other headlamps (the ones I use) are warmer.

Now, this is a bit disappointing.

I hadn't really used it much before I wrote my last comment. I compared it to some of my lights now. H51c was clearly warmer, but I think the difference was bigger when I compared it to Fenix TK21 (XM-L cool white). Surprisingly, the tint seems to be quite close to the tint of my SD6-460NW. When comparing them, Spark seemed to be only slightly more on purple side, and H502d slightly more on (sic) green side. That said, it really seems to be that the d model has greener tint on sides, too. Unfortunately, some of the light is reflected from (or goes below) the GITD reflector and turns to green, giving a small but not so nice hue to the light (you can see that the GITD reflector shines relatively brightly when the light is on). For some reasons the effect seems to be stronger on the lower levels, and rather nonexistent on high. Not to say that it matters that much in real use (and IIRC it is nothing like the tint of Preon P0), but, this surely is something I didn't expect or didn't want to see. :sigh:


----------



## Diablo_331

It seems to be, to me at least, that the 502c may be the least talked about model in this thread. I just ordered myself one and it will go great alongside my holy grail of EDC lights, my beloved SC51c. You're NOT knocking this baby out of my pockets any time soon! I LOVE the warm Rebel that Zebra uses and to have it in an all flood light is very exciting! I can't wait!


----------



## jorn

Esko said:


> For some reasons the effect seems to be stronger on the lower levels, and rather nonexistent on high. Not to say that it matters that much in real use (and IIRC it is nothing like the tint of Preon P0), but, this surely is something I didn't expect or didn't want to see. :sigh:


Current controlled lights usually change tint in the lo modes.


----------



## psychbeat

I think a 4C XML would be perfect in the W version. 

It's tint is VERY close to the Nichia219 92CRI we all love.


----------



## Esko

Esko said:


> For some reasons the effect seems to be stronger on the lower levels, and rather nonexistent on high.



I took some pics, and didn't see that on them. White balance set to 5000K, the beam was pretty green in the pics though (consistently).

Another interesting/disturbing discovery (bearing in mind that there were some water issues reported). On higher modes, some light is leaking from the top of the light, between the rubber switch and the body. :thinking: Unfortunately I don't believe I have time to make more tests before next week.


----------



## Mr Floppy

psychbeat said:


> I think a 4C XML would be perfect in the W version.



That gets my vote too.


----------



## unattended

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



RedForest UK said:


> Does the small(er) LED under the same large lense look weird at all to you on the H502D?




502c here - but yes, it looks a bit lost.
thinking of the h50 the huge lens really annoys


----------



## davidt1

psychbeat said:


> I think a 4C XML would be perfect in the W version.
> 
> It's tint is VERY close to the Nichia219 92CRI we all love.



I trust your experience. If you like it, I will go along. Ask Zebralight to use it.


----------



## Diablo_331

psychbeat said:


> I think a 4C XML would be perfect in the W version.
> 
> It's tint is VERY close to the Nichia219 92CRI we all love.



While I agree with you that the tint the Nichia 219 pumps out is great, I can't see ZL straying too far from their normal 4200k temp of their "w" models. I guess we'll just have to wait and see..:thinking:


----------



## ulfheonar

all back order , including h51 and h51w , thats great , instead I upgraded my edc knife (mini gerber & small gerber 625) to a spyderco sage 1 , I hope to receive it soon! I wish I could have get a zebra for this summer , to replace my ( fenix e01 & princeton tech quad ) , i will wait , I really want a zebra , my eneloop xx that I got a month ago have not been used yet


----------



## Diablo_331

ulfheonar said:


> all back order , including h51 and h51w , thats great , instead I upgraded my edc knife (mini gerber & small gerber 625) to a spyderco sage 1 , I hope to receive it soon! I wish I could have get a zebra for this summer , to replace my ( fenix e01 & princeton tech quad ) , i will wait , I really want a zebra , my eneloop xx that I got a month ago have not been used yet



Use a search engine. There are dealers with various models in stock.


----------



## marcis

Small update on my thoughts for the H502. After using it for a weekish I now think it is quite green compared to my h51f. The xml with the GITD thing seems to make a green tint. I still love this headlamp, but I think zebralight needs to get rid of the GITD thing fast. If the GITD thing is not responsible for the green hue, then xml's suck..... with that said I love the tint of my spark sd-52 NW. So in other words I don't think it's the xmls fault.. get rid of the GITD thing zebralight, Please!

Otherwise, this light is awesome.


----------



## Harry999

The reports of the green tint are making me hold off purchase for now...


----------



## Zeruel

Received my H502d yesterday, the 5000K does look like true daylight temperature. My SC60W and SC600W looks like warm white comparing to it. And the green "tint" from the GITD "reflector" only fringes on the edge of the spill, not a bother unless you're a white wall hunter.

I must say, each time I ordered from Zebralight, their anodizing comes in different shades. This batch is by far my favorite, it's in a nice _matte_, dark (olive?) gray anodizing. Hope it'll still be the same for my next order.


----------



## pjandyho

Zeruel said:


> Received my H502d yesterday, the 5000K does look like true daylight temperature. My SC60W and SC600W looks like warm white comparing to it. And the green "tint" from the GITD "reflector" only fringes on the edge of the spill, not a bother unless you're a white wall hunter.
> 
> I must say, each time I ordered from Zebralight, their anodizing comes in different shades. This batch is by far my favorite, it's in a nice _matte_, dark (olive?) gray anodizing. Hope it'll still be the same for my next order.


Great! You got the H502d? Can I take a look to compare it to the H501w and H51Fw?


----------



## lampeDépêche

Zeruel said:


> Received my H502d yesterday....



Did you also get a cool H502, i.e. one of the first XMLs? 

I'd love to hear from someone who has both the XML and one of the Rebels (c or d) how much they notice the drop-off in lumens on maximum.

I'm still waiting for the XML neutral to be released, because I want the extra lumens and I'm very happy with the tint of my H600w. 

But the longer they delay the release of the H502w, the more I'm tempted by that H502d.... But will I regret the drop from 260 down to 170 lumens?


----------



## Zeruel

pjandyho said:


> Great! You got the H502d? Can I take a look to compare it to the H501w and H51Fw?



Sure, Andy. I'm free over the weekends. PM me to arrange. 





lampeDépêche said:


> Did you also get a cool H502, i.e. one of the first XMLs?



Not at the moment. Initially, I almost ordered the H502 then ZL dropped a H502d in the series. Can't resist 5000K lights, so I got it. But I might get the XM-L as well, just undecided between the cool white for the "extra" brightness or W. If you're happy with H600W, then probably H502W is worth the way. Some neutral users might find 5000K too "white" for their taste.


----------



## revolver

I just got mine. It's a great little light, but has anybody else noticed that the battery indicator seems to go down really quickly? I had a fully charged eneloop (maybe a month old) go down one flash after playing around with it for ~10 minutes, couldn't have had it on high for longer than 2 or 3 minutes, and then it went down another flash after another 2 minutes on high. Is this normal?


----------



## nakahoshi

marcis said:


> Small update on my thoughts for the H502. After using it for a weekish I now think it is quite green compared to my h51f. The xml with the GITD thing seems to make a green tint. I still love this headlamp, but I think zebralight needs to get rid of the GITD thing fast. If the GITD thing is not responsible for the green hue, then xml's suck..... with that said I love the tint of my spark sd-52 NW. So in other words I don't think it's the xmls fault.. get rid of the GITD thing zebralight, Please!
> 
> Otherwise, this light is awesome.



The GITD reflector is not the cause of the green tint, Its from the XM-L. Maybe if you are really close to a surface ( less than 10") it might reflect back. My SC-600's (I have 2) and both of my H502's have a very slight green tint that is not noticeable during use, but when you compare it to another light it stands out. I think the batch of XM-L's that ZL have (Cool White anyway) lean towards green. I consider this a trade-off to the above average brightness / run-time that I get from ZL. 

I think people are making it out to be way worse than it really is. 

I really paid attention while I was using this headlamp working in an electrical panel the other day and I was looking to see if the greenish fringe ever came into play and it did not. Everything that I needed to see was lit up, evenly and brightly with no hint of green. 

-Bobby


----------



## pjandyho

nakahoshi said:


> The GITD reflector is not the cause of the green tint, Its from the XM-L. Maybe if you are really close to a surface ( less than 10") it might reflect back. My SC-600's (I have 2) and both of my H502's have a very slight green tint that is not noticeable during use, but when you compare it to another light it stands out. I think the batch of XM-L's that ZL have (Cool White anyway) lean towards green. I consider this a trade-off to the above average brightness / run-time that I get from ZL.
> 
> I think people are making it out to be way worse than it really is.
> 
> I really paid attention while I was using this headlamp working in an electrical panel the other day and I was looking to see if the greenish fringe ever came into play and it did not. Everything that I needed to see was lit up, evenly and brightly with no hint of green.
> 
> -Bobby


I am not sure I believe the green to be coming from the XM-L. I still go by the theory that it is reflected off the GITD. If it is as you have said, please explain why Zeruel in his post above also see green on the edge of the beam with the H502d? Surely that is not from an XM-L as the 'd' version is using a Philips LED in there. And as I have said many posts back, my Preon P0 which uses an XP-E against a GITD also has a green ring on the edge.


----------



## insanefred

pjandyho said:


> I am not sure I believe the green to be coming from the XM-L. I still go by the theory that it is reflected off the GITD. If it is as you have said, please explain why Zeruel in his post above also see green on the edge of the beam with the H502d? Surely that is not from an XM-L as the 'd' version is using a Philips LED in there. And as I have said many posts back, my Preon P0 which uses an XP-E against a GITD also has a green ring on the edge.



Has anyone tried applying some tape over the GITD reflector? I would thing this is the first thing someone would do to prove/disprove the GITD/green tint theory.


----------



## Diablo_331

insanefred said:


> Has anyone tried applying some tape over the GITD reflector? I would thing this is the first thing someone would do to prove/disprove the GITD/green tint theory.



You would have to break the lens to get to it.


----------



## TweakMDS

Maybe just shine another light from very close up on the GITD reflector and see if any green edges reflect?


----------



## varuscelli

Diablo_331 said:


> You would have to break the lens to get to it.



That's an interesting idea. I suspect you'd get a lot more than just green edges that way...I mean bouncing another light directly off the GITD reflector...but if so, that might also validate that at least some of the green edge tint could be caused by the GITD reflector. Again, interesting idea.


----------



## Helmut.G

If you move one of your eyes right into the green edge you should be able to tell where the light is coming from. That would be the surface that appears the brightest.
I would imagine the further away from the light you are, the easier it is to position your eye correctly.


----------



## Burntrice

pjandyho said:


> I am not sure I believe the green to be coming from the XM-L. I still go by the theory that it is reflected off the GITD. If it is as you have said, please explain why Zeruel in his post above also see green on the edge of the beam with the H502d? Surely that is not from an XM-L as the 'd' version is using a Philips LED in there. And as I have said many posts back, my Preon P0 which uses an XP-E against a GITD also has a green ring on the edge.



I agree, I'm only getting green edges, exactly the same as my Preon P0. 
Also I love the GITD, had a power cut when I woke up the the middle of the night. The lights had been off for at least 5 hours but I was able to find my H502 easily via the GITD. On top of that the lowest setting is great for getting around at night, perfect IMO.


----------



## Ezeriel

I have a couple questions:

1. Does the XM-L version's tint turn green on lower levels?

2. Is there and outdoor beamshot of the XM-L anywhere on the web?


----------



## mobi

revolver said:


> I just got mine. It's a great little light, but has anybody else noticed that the battery indicator seems to go down really quickly? I had a fully charged eneloop (maybe a month old) go down one flash after playing around with it for ~10 minutes, couldn't have had it on high for longer than 2 or 3 minutes, and then it went down another flash after another 2 minutes on high. Is this normal?



No. I use Eneloops, and the impression I've taken away is that the battery indicator on the H502 seems to give a fair estimate of remaining run time, and the run times have been consistent with the run times posted on the Zebralight website.


----------



## insanefred

Diablo_331 said:


> You would have to break the lens to get to it.



Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a lens in front of the GITD reflector. :shrug:


----------



## lampeDépêche

You know how ZL likes to multiply models by offering emitters with different tints?

I've got a theory about this green GITD thing:

I think they're going to start offering GITD background in different tints!

So you can get a cool XML with an orange GITD, or a warm Rebel with a blue GITD, or any combo you like!

Seriously--my guess is that they did not want a mirror-surface behind the emitter, because it would add too many artefacts to the beam. They could have gone with a simple white surface (and maybe they should have), but instead they went with what they hoped would be a bonus feature. 

Yeah, it's not a bonus in my mind, but it's also not a negative, either. I haven't noticed the green ring yet, possibly because my eyeballs don't swivel that far to the side. (Paging Marty Feldman!)

I strongly suspect that the number of H502 customers in the world who are ever bothered by the "green ring" phenomenon is fewer than the number of people who have posted on this thread. Just not an issue for the vast majority of users, or uses.


----------



## davidt1

I think a good number of people who buy the new H502 are new to ZL lights and don't own the H501. If you own the H501, the imperfections, however minor, of the H502 would become very obvious from the faint hot spot to the green edges to the 120 degree beam.

This is not to say that it is a bad light. It is not, but I expect more from Zebralight. You should expect more for a $70 light.


----------



## Diablo_331

insanefred said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a lens in front of the GITD reflector. :shrug:



I don't even have my sample yet but I can tell you that there is a lens protecting the LED. On most of the older ZL's if you were to crack a lens, the only way to change it was to continue to chip it away and hope that no damage was done to the LED or reflector. Then the bezel ring could be pried out and the remaining bits of lens removed. A new lens would be installed and the bezel ring would be glued back in place.


----------



## Esko

Esko said:


> I took some pics, and didn't see that on them. White balance set to 5000K, the beam was pretty green in the pics though (consistently).



Enough with small talk. Let's bring in some pics.

White balance set at 5000K (the CCT of the led used in H502d), contrast "standard", saturation "middle high".

H51Fc, SD6-460NW, H502d, S-mini NW (XP-G E3), TK21 (XM-L U2). The lights are very close to the white wall (door).







Just for the record: When I changed the white balance to 4000K (the CCT of the led used in model c), I think the light of the H51Fc looked pretty nicely white on my monitor.

About the lens; I don't think I see any lens either. Can't be absolutely sure, but I believe it is just a glass.

edit: corrected the headlamp model (H502c -> H502d)


----------



## insanefred

Esko said:


> Enough with small talk. Let's bring in some pics.
> 
> White balance set at 5000K (the CCT of the led used in H502d), contrast "standard", saturation "middle high".
> 
> H51Fc, SD6-460NW, H502c, S-mini NW (XP-G E3), TK21 (XM-L U2). The lights are very close to the white wall (door).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just for the record: When I changed the white balance to 4000K (the CCT of the led used in model c), I think the light of the H51Fc looked pretty nicely white on my monitor.
> 
> About the lens; I don't think I see any lens either. Can't be absolutely sure, but I believe it is just a glass.



Doesn't the H502c use the same emitter as the H51c? If so, that doesn't look so good. :sick2::thumbsdow
Also, can you re-do that photos with the camera up higher looking down, the light seem to block most of the beam.


----------



## Esko

insanefred said:


> Doesn't the H502c use the same emitter as the H51c? If so, that doesn't look so good. :sick2::thumbsdow
> Also, can you re-do that photos with the camera up higher looking down, the light seem to block most of the beam.



It does use the same emitter and the beam color should be the same, too. Unless something (ie the GITD reflector) is coloring the beam. Unfortunately, I don't have H502c to compare.

Other than that, you shouldn't judge the lights too strongly by only looking at the tint comparison photographs. The differences are emphasized in them. When you use the lights alone, your eyes adjust to the tint and the light looks whiter. 4000K Nichia is a nice warm (neutral) led and I believe it will be even better in all flood (low beam intensity) H502c than in H51Fc. Personally, I believe I would prefer having H502c and H51Fd, if the latter one existed.

The lights are only centimeters away from the door. Some beams are very wide, I couldn't compare them side by side otherwise (my walls are not white, so I would have to go to somewhere else to take those pics - or take them individually). I only wanted to compare the tints, but if needed, I could try to take other pics later.


----------



## insanefred

Esko said:


> *Unfortunately, I don't have H502c to compare.*
> 
> .





Esko said:


> Enough with small talk. Let's bring in some pics.
> 
> 
> 
> H51Fc, SD6-460NW,* H502c*, S-mini NW (XP-G E3), TK21 (XM-L U2). The lights are very close to the white wall (door).



????

:thinking:


----------



## Esko

insanefred said:


> ????
> 
> :thinking:



 

It is H502*d* of course. Sorry. And thanks. I corrected it to the original post.


----------



## B0wz3r

pjandyho said:


> I am not sure I believe the green to be coming from the XM-L. I still go by the theory that it is reflected off the GITD.


There's no way this could be the case; the intensity of the light from the GITD reflector compared to the output of the emitter is so low, it'd be completely overpowered on all but the very lowest of settings. Even at a low enough setting, one where you'd go into scotopic vision, you wouldn't be able to see the color then, because scotopic vision is color blind. 

I've seen plenty of XML's, and XPG's for that matter, that were supposedly neutral, that had green in them.


----------



## insanefred

B0wz3r said:


> There's no way this could be the case; the intensity of the light from the GITD reflector compared to the output of the emitter is so low, it'd be completely overpowered on all but the very lowest of settings. Even at a low enough setting, one where you'd go into scotopic vision, you wouldn't be able to see the color then, because scotopic vision is color blind.
> 
> I've seen plenty of XML's, and XPG's for that matter, that were supposedly neutral, that had green in them.



The GITD reflector isn't bright enough to effect the tint of the light by itself. But it is being used as a reflector in this case, so the stronger the light hitting the GITD reflector more it is going to reflect out.
I cannot not stand any green in my lights, I don't care if might not notice it in real use. If I know it's there, it's going to bug me. I rather it have more of a magenta tint than a green.


----------



## bbb74

My h502c arrived. I like  I'm not convinced yet if the cri is worth the output loss vs the future h502w. I haven't tried it outside yet.

I haven't played enough yet but I really do rather like the tint. Swapping between the h502c and sc51w makes the sc51w look a touch greenish and the h502c a touch pinkish although you can't really see this in the photos... I looked for the green tint on the edge of the beam, and maybe it is there, but you wouldn't notice it unless all you were doing is looking at walls (which I don't do, as a rule...). It does not bother me at all.

*Beamshots* - h502c vs h51 (diffused) vs sc51w (diffused) vs ld20r4 (diffused)


*h502c:*






*sc51w:*





*h51:*





*ld20r4:*





(Note these exposures are all on daylight balance, but with exposure adjusted to iron out most of any brightness differences. All were done in H1).

*Glow in the dark:*






*Glow in the dark + super low mode:*





*Super low mode vs moon mode on h51: (*The h51 is burnt out (overexposed) in this shot.)


----------



## pjandyho

B0wz3r said:


> There's no way this could be the case; the intensity of the light from the GITD reflector compared to the output of the emitter is so low, it'd be completely overpowered on all but the very lowest of settings. Even at a low enough setting, one where you'd go into scotopic vision, you wouldn't be able to see the color then, because scotopic vision is color blind.
> 
> I've seen plenty of XML's, and XPG's for that matter, that were supposedly neutral, that had green in them.





insanefred said:


> The GITD reflector isn't bright enough to effect the tint of the light by itself. But it is being used as a reflector in this case, so the stronger the light hitting the GITD reflector more it is going to reflect out.
> I cannot not stand any green in my lights, I don't care if might not notice it in real use. If I know it's there, it's going to bug me. I rather it have more of a magenta tint than a green.


Spot on insanefred! Sorry to disagree with you BOwz3r. I can't argue with you if the subject is about how our eyes see colors since you are the expert, but in this case the light is clearly reflected off the GITD which acts like a colored reflector. I can stand firm in that because I am a photographer and sometimes I make use of colored sheets to reflect color onto the subject I photograph. The stronger the light projected onto the colored sheet, the more the color is being reflected.


----------



## varuscelli

I should come up with a better example (or someone else should), but the first photo is a Fenix MC11 on a white sheet of paper. It's followed by the MC11 shining into the reflector of the H502. Admittedly, the MC11 has a bit of green in its own beam. But, the reflected beam of the MC11 from the H502 GITD reflector really does seem to pick up the greenish tint from the GITD reflector (bouncing back and surrounding the head of the MC11, left). I'll also try this experiment with a more neutral source light and see what I get.


----------



## Diablo_331

Esko said:


> Enough with small talk. Let's bring in some pics.
> 
> White balance set at 5000K (the CCT of the led used in H502d), contrast "standard", saturation "middle high".
> 
> H51Fc, SD6-460NW, H502d, S-mini NW (XP-G E3), TK21 (XM-L U2). The lights are very close to the white wall (door).
> 
> Just for the record: When I changed the white balance to 4000K (the CCT of the led used in model c), I think the light of the H51Fc looked pretty nicely white on my monitor.
> 
> About the lens; I don't think I see any lens either. Can't be absolutely sure, but I believe it is just a glass.
> 
> edit: corrected the headlamp model (H502c -> H502d)



Ahhh.. I see. I'm using lens and glass as the same. Sorry for the confusion. What I meant to say is that there is a glass.


----------



## varuscelli

Diablo_331 said:


> Ahhh.. I see. I'm using lens and glass as the same. Sorry for the confusion. What I meant to say is that there is a glass.



Don't worry -- it seems to be standard terminology to use the word "lens" to refer to the glass on a flashlight.


----------



## fnj

Sorry in advance if I have missed this. Has anyone gotten into the business end yet? Anyone removed the glass to compare optical results with and without it? Anyone painted over the GITD with flat black enamel to see if it has any effect on the greenish ring (or on overall intensity on the various settings for that matter)?

Those who see a tint change on extra low - you're not talking about 0.01 or 0.04 are you? Something more than that, right? AFAIK the light-sensing cones could not possibly operate in darkness so great that the two lowest settings are even visible. That's if you are not peering directly at the LED from a very very close distance. (Completely off topic, I am "gifted" or cursed with a right eye which naturally focuses at approximately 1.5-2 inches - if I take my glasses off everything is just a vague blur at any normal distance, but I can study objects at extreme close-up without any magnifier!)


----------



## MountainVoyageur

One thing I am interested in is understanding just how close a given flashlight comes to making the things it illuminates look the same as they would in daylight. I understand that is what CRI purports to measure, but it would be nice to be able to actually see it.

The set of photos bbb74 posted is very nice, and I can see differences between the various lights. What I do not see, in that set or in other posted sets, is a shot showing the setup under daylight. I do not know which of those four shots of the colored items is closest to daylight illumination.

Spec-wise I expect that the 502d should be best in that regard. I gather that some of the knowledgeable folks on this forum may not be quite convinced, though.

--MV


----------



## RedForest UK

One problem with that would be getting the daylight at the correct lux value to match with the lights tested. One key feature of daylight which makes it so good for colour rendering is simply sheer power. Try shining a 100 lumen 90+ CRI light on something with colours, then shine an 800+ lumen 60 CRI cool light on it. The cool light may well seem to bring out the colours better simply through sheer power allowing much quicker processing of the stimulus input. 

A second problem is getting the beam right. There's more to perceived light quality/fidelity than CCT, lux intensity and CRI or other spectral measures. Daylight is effectively perfectly diffused and from a wide area, rather than from one point source, allowing it to get into much more recessed areas than a traditional torch beam would. This again helps with texture gradients etc and gives an overall better perception of reality.

The third issue is simply that 'daylight' is not a set thing. The variation in CCT of natural sunlight across a single day is massive, and further influenced by the atmospheric conditions. For example, while daylight is necessarily 100 CRI as it is full spectrum, it can vary between 6,500k on an overcast day and 1,850k at sunset. This a massive difference which is remarkably normalised by our eyes and visual processing system.

What you are suggesting is something I also have often wanted to see an example of. But specialist equipment may be needed if you want to even it up between the Sun and whatever torches need comparing to it, as Sunlight has much more to it's advantage than just colour fidelity. Of course from a practical perspective and using a camera with automatic settings it is possible to roughly replicate the job our eyes do in adapting to whatever light input is given to them and a simple daylight picture on automatic may be useful to include for that purpose.


----------



## Esko

Diablo_331 said:


> Ahhh.. I see. I'm using lens and glass as the same. Sorry for the confusion. What I meant to say is that there is a glass.



I guessed this was the case. We all know that it has something. Glass or lens, whatever, but in this particular case Zebralight told us originally that the light will have a plano convex lens. The plans may have changed and it doesn't really matter. Having a straight glass instead of a half curvy lens doesn't make it any worse or better, it is the whole package and design that matters.



fnj said:


> Sorry in advance if I have missed this. Has anyone gotten into the business end yet? Anyone removed the glass to compare optical results with and without it? Anyone painted over the GITD with flat black enamel to see if it has any effect on the greenish ring (or on overall intensity on the various settings for that matter)?
> 
> Those who see a tint change on extra low - you're not talking about 0.01 or 0.04 are you? Something more than that, right? AFAIK the light-sensing cones could not possibly operate in darkness so great that the two lowest settings are even visible. That's if you are not peering directly at the LED from a very very close distance. (Completely off topic, I am "gifted" or cursed with a right eye which naturally focuses at approximately 1.5-2 inches - if I take my glasses off everything is just a vague blur at any normal distance, but I can study objects at extreme close-up without any magnifier!)



Right.. If you see colors, the cones are working. If the colors are plain, it's mostly rods but cones too. The glass can't be removed, except by breaking it. Not surprised that no-one has done that yet.

It is somewhat confusing to see how important it is to Zebralight to choose the exactly right leds (still no H502w due to that, for example), and yet they are ready to compromise the tint quality by adding a greenish GITD reflector to the light. It doesn't seem to be too efficient either (it fades rather quickly - I don't have much experience with GITD stuff though). It is just a bonus feature. If it had to be added, why not use a white GITD reflector then? I know that white is not quite as efficient as green but it would have been nicer to look and would have minimial effect on the tint. Might have made the beam slightly brighter, too.


----------



## RedForest UK

Esko said:


> If the colors are plain, it's mostly rods but cones too.



If the colours are completely plain then the light is either 0 CRI somehow (e.g. the sodium-pressure HID streetlights which give the impression of a world in monochromatic orange) or you are down to levels of scotopic vision only, with enough stimulus input for rods but no cone cells (or negligably higher than baseline) to fire.


----------



## tickled

RedForest UK said:


> The third issue is simply that 'daylight' is not a set thing. The variation in CCT of natural sunlight across a single day is massive, and further influenced by the atmospheric conditions. For example, while daylight is necessarily 100 CRI as it is full spectrum, it can vary between 6,500k on an overcast day and 1,850k at sunset. This a massive difference which is remarkably normalised by our eyes and visual processing system.


 I think it is understood that daylight means the CCT on a clear and sunny during midday and not any of the outliers at either extreme. TBH the charge that "daylight varies so your desire for a daylight torch is pointless" is something I hear here sometimes. Usually in a thread mentioning warm white lights.


----------



## RedForest UK

I'm not saying that it's pointless, just that daylight does vary a lot. Even 'daylight on a clear and sunny day' can vary much more than you would imagine as it's very easy for our eyes to adjust between mid-range CCTs at high intensity. 

I would say however that wanting an exact replica of daylight in a torch is an impossible request. Not due to the CCT issue, as a torch with a full spectral distribution and high enough lux would be perceived as 'daylight' to most people if the CCT fell anywhere between 4000k and 6500k (my personal preference for 'daylight' being around 5000k). However the nature of the light angle characteristics and texture gradients etc is simply impossible to replicate from a single point light source.

I was just meaning to point out that as daylight does vary so do peoples opinions on what exactly consititutes 'normal' daylight CCT, even up to variables such as where they live and/or if they spend most of their time inside or outside etc.

I think zebra have got it right with making their 'd' version 5000k, but to properly replicate daylight to my eye they would need even better CRI (this being a necessary but not sufficient condition for a full spectrum light source) and a much higher lux value (loads higher lumens) which if possible would adjust itself across the beam in use to maintain consistent across targets at differing distances. Even then it would not be completely the same as true daylight as it would be from a single point source and so cast shadows and look unnatural. Others' opinions on this may vary.


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## moozooh

tickled said:


> I think it is understood that daylight means the CCT on a clear and sunny during midday and not any of the outliers at either extreme.


I think you'll also need to specify place and season this clear and sunny midday happens in, or, more precisely, sun's position on the celestial sphere, air temperature and moisture. All of that affects the optical properties of sunlight, and thus, CCT.


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## moldyoldy

I was infected by the interest in the Zebralight H502 and just received my personal copy today. I owned both predecessor non-reflector headlamps from Zebralight. I still have the H51F as well as the SC51, SC51w, SC60 and SC600. FWIW, I do not like coloration on the SC51W - too warm for my preferences. The other SCxxx beam colors are OK, white enough that I no longer care about the coloration differences between an XML and XPG..

After playing around with H502, my first reaction is that a lot of lumens are wasted on the 120 deg spread beam. 120 deg is about the limit of visibility thru the lenses of my full size corrective eye-glasses and I do not often look thru the corner of my glasses. An 80 degree spread would have made more sense. About the only time that the 120deg spread is usable is for area lighting when I turn off the room lights and am walking thru the house. The combination of the 120 deg beam and max lumens output provides a nice area light for a room in a house. 

I do see a slight greenish tinge on the edge of the 120 deg range - which does not affect normal use because the 120 deg spread is outside of normal vision. The general beam coloration towards the center is OK, a bit creamy-off-white. like most XML LEDs. Not an issue for me.

I can observe a slight hotspot artifact in the center of the illuminated area if white-wall hunting. That is not very noticeable under normal use. Not an issue for me.

The physical size is smaller than I expected, distinctly shorter than the SC51F. The smaller size also means that it gets hotter on the max XML output compared to the SC51F. I wonder about longevity with routine use on max output when used as a headlamp. That much heat really needs to be dissipated via holding it or something similar.

As far as I can determine, the glass covering the LED is AR coated glass - no lens.

The GITD background behind the LED is a curiosity for me. The H502 needs to be pointed in the direction of the user for the GITD to be visible. A bonus feature?

The other LED beam colorations offered come at far too high of a price in loss of lumens to be interesting for me. Maybe that would change if Zebralight switched to an 80 deg beam spread.

Caveat: I need to get used to a flood beam again. I found the SC51F beam to be useful, better than the usual camping headlamps.

Bottom line: Although I will not return my copy for credit, this purchase is not repeatable. Maybe if Zebralight offered a version with an 80 deg beam I could be interested again.


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## Brasso

I just received a 502d. This is my first "mule" style Zebra headlamp. I have an H51fw and an H51fr. I agree with molyoldy about an 80 degree beam being better. The 120 does waste some light. I can see how this type of light would be good for up close tasks, but I think I prefer my 51fw overall; especially if I'd be doing activities outdoors because it has a bit of a hot spot it would work better for distance. The "d" tint appears cool to my eyes, but it does have good color rendition. I like warm tints, but this is OK with me. I'll have to play with it some more, but I may try and trade this for an H51fc or SC51fc to use as a night light.


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## Philonous

Decided to go for this. I really love my SC51 and SC600, but a solid headlamp is something I've had my eye on for a while. My speculative thoughts are as follows:


- Regarding the GITD/Green-tint issue, for me I think the functionality provided by the GITD reflector will easily trump the tint issues. As far as I can tell, many find the 120 degree angle too wide, and as the tint issues apparently appear only on the fringes, I can't really see this being an issue. Plus, I don't know about you guys, but I don't have my lights on me in bed. My SC600 is usually nearby, but it would be nice if I could wake up and see it without having to leave it on. I think the GITD reflector is going to suit me down to the ground, and as this light goes even lower, I see it being perfect for facilitating nocturnal emissions/ingestion! 


- As for the angle of the beam, I am skeptical, but also intrigued. Let me explain. On the one hand, the performance of the light is such that even allowing for 'wasted light', you're still getting more usable performance for your battery/buck than with any other major manufacturer. So if it IS an issue, it's more a 'oh what might have been' lament than a problem with this light vs. other headlamps. Still, if it's an issue, it's an issue, and lamenting what might have been is not what you want to do after spending $69. HOWEVER, I am ready to be surprised. I must say that for indoor use, the idea of being able to see basically _everything_ lit up to the same extent is intriguing. As I say, these are speculative points - I don't have the light yet - but although I have my doubts, I have my hopes too. When the light gets here I'll post my thoughts, but I have a funny feeling this might be kind of awesome.


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## Bolster

*No Green*

To add to the "green" report: No visible green tint on my H502c.

Put me down as another "doubter" that the GITD reflector is causing a green tint.

About this resurrected theme of "wasted light," that totally depends on your usage. If you need peripheral vision, the beam's not "wasted." If you don't need peripheral, get the H51f or something. This is a repeat discussion of several dozen posts ago.


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## pjandyho

*Re: No Green*



Bolster said:


> To add to the "green" report: No visible green tint on my H502c.
> 
> Put me down as another "doubter" that the GITD reflector is causing a green tint.
> 
> About this theme that has arisen of "wasted light," that depends on your usage. If you need peripheral vision, the beam's not wasted.


The white wall photo posted above by Esko clearly shows a green ring on the outer edges of the beam from the H502c and everyone can see that. Maybe it is harder to visually spot the greenish tinge from the H502c due to the warmer tint and everyone sees color differently. Maybe you can post a white wall photo of the beam from your sample?

Look, don't get me wrong guys. I personally don't think that the green tinge on the outer ring of the beam does bother me. Like what some of you have said, your eyes wouldn't even scroll all the way to the edge in use. In fact I wasn't even bothered by some of my Quark S2 and S3 lights that had greenish tints. But the truth is the truth, in theory or in practical, the green GITD reflects the green back. We have people here who reported back that they see green tinge on the outer edge of their light, and this has been seen in all the H502 variants except the 'w' which is not out yet, and we have quite a handful of photo proofs too so we can safely conclude that the green on the outer edge of the beam is NOT prevalent in the XM-L H502 only. That rules out the cause of the green tinge being caused by an XM-L emitter. I am not saying that an XM-L won't have a greenish tinge on the outer ring. What I am saying is that the GITD does contribute greatly to the greenish tinge on the edge of the beam and I am very certain that is the case here.


----------



## varuscelli

*Re: No Green*



Bolster said:


> About this resurrected theme of "wasted light," that totally depends on your usage. If you need peripheral vision, the beam's not "wasted." If you don't need peripheral, get the H51f or something. This is a repeat discussion of several dozen posts ago.



Absolutely true about it depending on usage. Given the versatility of ZebraLight headlamps, a good example is tail standing the lamp to light up a space when you're not wearing it as a headlamp. The coverage is fantastic. I also like the peripheral vision aspect when worn as a headlamp. 

I do agree is would be nice to see a version of the H502 with something closer to 80 degree coverage, but as a different lamp and not necessarily as the way the H502 should have been released. The H502 is what it is. For something with a different angle of coverage, there will likely be another lamp released at some point that combines the attributes some want to see.


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## davidt1

*Re: No Green*

Zebralight intended for the H502 to be a replacement for the H501. That's why the H501 was discontinued before the release of the H502. Does anyone seriously agree that a light with a 120 degree beam is an ideal replacement for a light with an 80 degree beam? 

If the H502 works for you, enjoy your light. Keep in mind that those who want a true replacement for the H501 with a brighter no-green-around-the-edges and no-fancy-girly-GITD 80 degree beam for a more discreet use and EDC might not share your enthusiasm for the H502.


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## moozooh

But if you ignore the over-80 degree parts of the spill (where the green edges are), it'll still outperform the H501 easily in brightness, runtime, and features, won't it.


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## davidt1

moozooh said:


> But if you ignore the over-80 degree parts of the spill (where the green edges are), it'll still outperform the H501 easily in brightness, runtime, and features, won't it.



The H502 is a replacement for H501. It has the XML emitter and the newest circuit. It has to be brighter than the H501. That's a given. A car with more horsepower is going run faster than a car with less. The H501 has an 80 degree beam. A true replacement should have an 80 degree beam also.


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## Esko

moldyoldy said:


> After playing around with H502, my first reaction is that a lot of lumens are wasted on the 120 deg spread beam. 120 deg is about the limit of visibility thru the lenses of my full size corrective eye-glasses and I do not often look thru the corner of my glasses. An 80 degree spread would have made more sense. About the only time that the 120deg spread is usable is for area lighting when I turn off the room lights and am walking thru the house. The combination of the 120 deg beam and max lumens output provides a nice area light for a room in a house.



Even if you don't look through the corners, your eyes/brains do register them, too. If something unusual happens in the periphery, your brains make you turn your eyes or head to that direction. Of course, if you want to concentrate on something from a distance, a tighter beam helps.

Luckily, it is easy to mod a 120 degree beam to a 80 degree beam. Just use some super glue and put an o-ring (or something else) around the bezel. Modding a 80 degree beam to a 120 degree beam is much more challenging. Some lumens will be lost, but if the light didn't use a lens or reflector, those lumens would be lost anyway.

That said, the leds emit light at a ~180 degree beam and H502 has a 120 degree beam. If the insides of the light were black, that light would be lost. The intensity might be small, but the area on which it is emitted is big, making the total amount of lumens significant. Those lumens go now to the GITD reflector.

And now to the pic I posted. The white balance is set at 5000K. S-mini has an XP-G E3 led, which means that it's CCT should be something between 4750-5300K (standard cri). It looks nicely white in the pic. Zebralight has a high cri rebel with a 5000K CCT. It looks greenish. And it is not just the periphery. To some degree, it is pretty much the whole beam (the center parts are over exposed in the pic; I also took an HDR pic which I didn't post). 

Luckily, this is only visible when white wall hunting, and even then preferably with other lights to compare to. When using the light, it doesn't look green at all. It could be that the led has a greenish hue but I believe that it is due to the light reflected/transferred/absorbed/emitted by the GITD reflector. If you turn the light on high and cover the led with you finger, you can see that the reflector is glowing brightly and emitting "white" light to every direction.

Then there is the thin green ring in the outer edge of the beam. I believe this is due to the light reflected from the _surface_ of the GITD reflector (acting as a true reflector). It does make white look a bit greenish in actual use, but it is just the outer edge of the very wide 120 degree beam, so :shrug: .


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## varuscelli

davidt1, you seem to be waffling quite a bit in your opinion of the H502 (like it, don't like it...I'm not sure where you really stand based on your overall comments from the last couple of weeks). Send your feedback to ZebraLight and maybe they'll do an H503 that has different features. I'm pretty sure that will happen eventually anyway. 

I still suspect that that the H502 reflector (including the GITD coating) was some kind of compromise to allow the beam to reach out farther and to soften/lessen any central hotspot that the reflector itself created. I'm not crazy about the GITD aspect, but neither am I really bothered about it. I see the GITD reflector as having a certain amount of functionality that some users would really like, but I can see why not all users would be crazy about it. 

My take on the H501/H502 differences is that the combination of the H501 and H502 will give me a lot more versatility than an H501 and a modified H501 (brighter). I like the idea of a brighter H501, but it wouldn't add as much to the versatility of ZebraLight offerings as the H502 does. Perhaps something to fill the gap in between will be offered soon...and I think it would be great, if so. 

Regardless, the H502 variations have to be taken for (and accepted as) what they are. Nothing is going to change what's already been developed and put on the market. A different light will likely be released in the future, but what's been released in the form of the H502 is what's been released (like it, love it, hate it...whatever the opinion). It's like any flashlight or headlamp or lantern out there -- there will be those who like it and those who don't.


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## kwak

davidt1 said:


> The H502 is a replacement for H501. It has the XML emitter and the newest circuit. It has to be brighter than the H501. That's a given. A car with more horsepower is going run faster than a car with less. The H501 has an 80 degree beam. A true replacement should have an 80 degree beam also.



Your really missing the point though.

Sure the H501w has a 80° beam but it's ONLY 80 lumens, the H502 is 260 lumens.
Which ever way you look at it the H502 is going to put a LOT more light in 80° of it's 120° sweep than the H501w.

So effectively your getting near on 200 lumens extra in that 80° beam PLUS an extra 40°

I think it's a bit odd to say the least that anyone would complain about that.


I have the H502d, H502 and a H501w 
I can tell you that even with the H502d on it's medium 110lm setting, comparing the H501w (on high 80lm) and H502d (on medium 110lm) side by side there is very very little difference in the beam spread, to the point where my Mrs (who is not really up on lights) was unable to consistently tell me which beam was widest.

Plus if you really really want a 80° beam then there is always the stupendous H600 

So i think your being extremely pedantic to say the least.


----------



## varuscelli

Esko said:


> Even if you don't look through the corners, your eyes/brains do register them, too. If something unusual happens in the periphery, your brains make you turn your eyes or head to that direction. Of course, if you want to concentrate on something from a distance, a tighter beam helps.



I've mentioned this before, but I don't know of any other commonly available headlamp that allows the user to take advantage of their natural peripheral vision the way the H502 does. 

I think we're often so conditioned in our thinking about flashlights that light up only what our central vision sees that we don't often consider what lighting up the periphery means to our ability to use our natural vision more fully. 

Indoors, using the H502 is close to turning on a soft room light. Outdoors, your eyes are able to pick up a lot more in their peripheral vision than any other lamp or flashlight that I've ever used. Unless you think about it when you're using it, you might not even be consciously aware of how much more you can see...but the ability to bring your peripheral vision more into play when using a headlamp is a pretty amazing thing.


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## riccardo.dv

I have sent the light (for the infiltration water issue) to Zebralight almost 2 weeks ago and I didn't received any answer yet. Any of you has experience with their customer service?


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## Bolster

*Re: No Green*



pjandyho said:


> The white wall photo posted above by Esko clearly shows a green ring on the outer edges of the beam from the H502c and everyone can see that. Maybe it is harder to visually spot the greenish tinge from the H502c due to the warmer tint and everyone sees color differently. Maybe you can post a white wall photo of the beam from your sample?



Incorrect. 

If you are talking about post #937, please go back and re-read it. This is how misinformation starts and spreads on the internet. An initial error is made, and then amplified. Esco mistakenly listed his light as a 502c, and then later corrected it to a 502d, but by then several people had already picked up the "H502c is green" idea. You will see the correction if you go back and review the posts. 

I _did_ post beamshots of my H502c, with multiple comparisons. See this thread, posts 854-859.

No detectable green tint on my H502c.



pjandyho said:


> But the truth is the truth, in theory or in practical, the green GITD reflects the green back. We have people here who reported back that they see green tinge on the outer edge of their light, and this has been seen in all the H502 variants.



Respectfully disagree. No discernible green ring or tint on my H502c, and multiple beamshots to support this.


----------



## varuscelli

riccardo.dv said:


> I have sent the light (for the infiltration water issue) to Zebralight almost 2 weeks ago and I didn't received any answer yet. Any of you has experience with their customer service?



Given that you're in Europe, where did you return the lamp? To ZebraLight in the USA or elsewhere?

I had to return one lamp (H600Fw) to ZebraLight. Although I did receive instructions from them on where to return the lamp for replacement, I did not get any kind of confirmation after they received it or when it was shipped back to me. I received the new lamp about 10 days after shipping the original back to them (that is, about 10 days after I dropped the package in the mail to ZebraLight). But, I'm in Texas and the ZebraLight offices to which I returned the lamp are also in Texas.


----------



## davidt1

kwak said:


> Your really missing the point though.
> 
> Sure the H501w has a 80° beam but it's ONLY 80 lumens, the H502 is 260 lumens.
> Which ever way you look at it the H502 is going to put a LOT more light in 80° of it's 120° sweep than the H501w.
> 
> So effectively your getting near on 200 lumens extra in that 80° beam PLUS an extra 40°
> 
> I think it's a bit odd to say the least that anyone would complain about that.
> 
> 
> I have the H502d, H502 and a H501w
> I can tell you that even with the H502d on it's medium 110lm setting, comparing the H501w (on high 80lm) and H502d (on medium 110lm) side by side there is very very little difference in the beam spread, to the point where my Mrs (who is not really up on lights) was unable to consistently tell me which beam was widest.
> 
> Plus if you really really want a 80° beam then there is always the stupendous H600
> 
> So i think your being extremely pedantic to say the least.



Think 260lm in an 80 degree beam. This is the ideal replacement for the H501. 

You keeping bringing up the H600. Does it run an AA batteries? Is it less than 3'' long? Does it all an flood beam?


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## kwak

davidt1 said:


> Think 260lm in an 80 degree beam. This is the ideal replacement for the H501.



For what?
What possible use would you have for a light with an almost unnoticeably narrower beam?

What were you doing with your light where you felt 260lm was not enough light?



davidt1 said:


> You keeping bringing up the H600. Does it run an AA batteries? Is it less than 3'' long? Does it all an flood beam?



I keep bringing it up as i believe you are missing the point.

If a 80° beam spread was high on your priorities and you required more throw then the H600 is an option.

The H502 is a monumentally small light, it's NEVER going to be a thrower, so why waste time and effort narrowing the beam when it's pointless?

As i say what were you doing when you felt a narrower beam would have made a significant difference?

The reason i ask is that i've been using my H502's more than all my other lights put together recently and i cannot even imagine what you would want a narrower beam for.
So without any further info on where you felt the light needed a narrower beam, it just seems to me that your being extremely pedantic about a problem that does not exist.

So could you please fill in the gaps.


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## YoSeKi

davidt1 said:


> Think 260lm in an 80 degree beam. This is the ideal replacement for the H501.



I'm curious. What are you thinking that an 80 degree beam can do that a 120 degree beam can't? 

The emitting pattern of the XML places about 80 percent of the output inside 80 degrees. If you just cutoff the outermost 20 degrees of the beam on the H502, it would produce an 80 degree beam that produces about 200 lumens OTF. If you compare that to a 260 lumen 80 degree beam where you found a way to capture the last 20 percent and place it inside 80 degrees, you only have a difference of 60 lumens. 

There is not enough difference between 260 and 200 flood lumens to make a practical difference. There would be very little difference in visible brightness and throw.


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## riccardo.dv

varuscelli said:


> Given that you're in Europe, where did you return the lamp? To ZebraLight in the USA or elsewhere?
> 
> I had to return one lamp (H600Fw) to ZebraLight. Although I did receive instructions from them on where to return the lamp for replacement, I did not get any kind of confirmation after they received it or when it was shipped back to me. I received the new lamp about 10 days after shipping the original back to them (that is, about 10 days after I dropped the package in the mail to ZebraLight). But, I'm in Texas and the ZebraLight offices to which I returned the lamp are also in Texas.



I sent the light to Shanghai (China), as they asked for. Hope to have an answer soon, it is terrible to buy a new headlamp and wait two weeks to have it back


----------



## YoSeKi

insanefred said:


> I don't care if might not notice it in real use. If I know it's there, it's going to bug me.



I think this quote reveals the attitude behind some complaints about the H502. The green fringe. The 120 degree instead of 80 degree beam. These are not legitimate complaints about the function of the light. These are OCD level complaints from "collectors" who wanted the H502 to be something else.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with being a collector. I do my fair share of collecting. I just don't think ZebraLight made the H502 to be collected. It is merely a tool, imperfect but useful.

The only legitimate complaint about function so far is the poor sealing of some units. That is a real functional problem.


----------



## pjandyho

*Re: No Green*



Bolster said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> If you are talking about post #937, please go back and re-read it. This is how misinformation starts and spreads on the internet. An initial error is made, and then amplified. Esco mistakenly listed his light as a 502c, and then later corrected it to a 502d, but by then several people had already picked up the "H502c is green" idea. You will see the correction if you go back and review the posts.
> 
> I _did_ post beamshots of my H502c, with multiple comparisons. See this thread, posts 854-859.
> 
> No detectable green tint on my H502c.


I hope we keep this cool. Honestly I am having an enjoyable time discussing on this topic and I hope to keep it this way.

That said, it does not matter whether that is an H502c or H502d in the photo by Esko. Afterall, my reasoning is that the green tinge around the edge of the beam is NOT caused by an XM-L. Surely the H502d is not using a cool white XM-L in there? If claiming that the presence of a green tinge on the edge of the beam is a characteristic caused by an XM-L, then we shouldn't be seeing a green tinge on the edge of the H502d since it uses a Philips LUXEON Rebel instead. Am I not right?



Bolster said:


> Respectfully disagree. No discernible green ring or tint on my H502c, and multiple beamshots to support this.


If that really is the case, it may be due to the fact that an H502c being a warmer tint than the H502 and H502d had sort of masked up the green tinge around the edges of the beam with the warmer colors. Afterall, this is one of the reason why people like myself and many others chose neutral or warm tints, so that we don't have to suffer with the tint lottery of a cool white (i.e. green tint) as well as lack of depth perception. Your beam shot is perfect if I want to see the spread of the beam, but the edges are too diffused to see much of a detail, and our topic of discussion happens to center on the edges of the beam.


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## Esko

I am very sorry for the mistake I made with the names (502c/502d). 



YoSeKi said:


> I'm curious. What are you thinking that an 80 degree beam can do that a 120 degree beam can't?
> 
> The emitting pattern of the XML places about 80 percent of the output inside 80 degrees. If you just cutoff the outermost 20 degrees of the beam on the H502, it would produce an 80 degree beam that produces about 200 lumens OTF. If you compare that to a 260 lumen 80 degree beam where you found a way to capture the last 20 percent and place it inside 80 degrees, you only have a difference of 60 lumens.
> 
> There is not enough difference between 260 and 200 flood lumens to make a practical difference. There would be very little difference in visible brightness and throw.



80%? I don't think that is true. The intensity is higher in the center, but the 80 degrees center beam covers only something like 25% of the full 180 degree emission _area_.

The intensity across the beam is not constant, so this will only give an estimate, but with with lumen/lux calculator (distance 1 meter):

80 lumens and 80 degree beam -> 55 lux
250 lumens and 120 degree beam -> 80 lux
250 lumens and 80 degree beam -> 170 lux

Provided that the sidespill is not wasted, there would be a significant increase in illuminance.



varuscelli said:


> I've mentioned this before, but I don't know of any other commonly available headlamp that allows the user to take advantage of their natural peripheral vision the way the H502 does.
> 
> I think we're often so conditioned in our thinking about flashlights that light up only what our central vision sees that we don't often consider what lighting up the periphery means to our ability to use our natural vision more fully.
> 
> Indoors, using the H502 is close to turning on a soft room light. Outdoors, your eyes are able to pick up a lot more in their peripheral vision than any other lamp or flashlight that I've ever used. Unless you think about it when you're using it, you might not even be consciously aware of how much more you can see...but the ability to bring your peripheral vision more into play when using a headlamp is a pretty amazing thing.



I agree. This is the first light with such a beam (don't know about Scurions but they are a different story). Give it a chance. And even if you still end up thinking that the light is just wasted, there will be others that find it useful.


----------



## YoSeKi

*Re: No Green*



pjandyho said:


> That said, it does not matter whether that is an H502c or H502d in the photo by Esko. Afterall, my reasoning is that the green tinge around the edge of the beam is NOT caused by an XM-L. Surely the H502d is not using a cool white XM-L in there? If claiming that the presence of a green tinge on the edge of the beam is a characteristic caused by an XM-L, then we shouldn't be seeing a green tinge on the edge of the H502d since it uses a Philips LUXEON Rebel instead.



Many cool white LED have green fringe. On warmer LED, the fringe is less noticeable because it is yellow. 

Some ZebraLight H501 cool white have a slight green fringe as well.


----------



## Brasso

*Re: No Green*

I can notice a green fringe in my 502d, but you have to pretty close to a white wall to see it, and it's pretty insignificant. In normal use it's not visible at all. It's a non issue. I like the GITD reflector.

This may be more of an issue with the xml version as this led tends to have a green halo already.


----------



## YoSeKi

Esko said:


> 80%? I don't think that is true.



You are probably right. 80% might be a little high. It may be closer to 70%. The spatial distribution graph of the XML is on page 8 of Cree XML datasheeet if anyone wants to look.



Esko said:


> The intensity across the beam is not constant, so this will only give an estimate, but with with lumen/lux calculator (distance 1 meter):
> 
> 80 lumens and 80 degree beam -> 55 lux
> 250 lumens and 120 degree beam -> 80 lux
> 250 lumens and 80 degree beam -> 170 lux



The lumen/lux calculator from ledrise is not useful for this situation. As you said, intensity across the beam is not constant, and the calculator does not account for that.

For throw, the intensity at the center matters the most, and you cannot collimate a 120 degree beam (that has the XML's beam distribution) into 80 degrees, have even beam distribution, and increase the lux at the center a noticeable amount at the same time. 

If you want even beam distribution, the lux at the center would have to stay about the same, and so throw would stay about the same.

If you tried to increase the lux at the center, the effort would result in a hotspot.


----------



## RedForest UK

Surely the 'green fringe' is a combination of both the XM-L's natural tendency for tint variation at the edge of the beam and light reflecting of the green surface of the GITD 'reflector'. With a Cool white XM-L there is often a slightly green fringe anyway and most of that wide angle light is therefore caught reflected OTF by the green GITD reflector. 

With the 'd' rebel there will be less of an effect, some wide angle light will be reflected of the GITD surface and the wavelength most prominently reflected will be green, but as a much lower amount and proportion of the light originally emitted was of that green wavelength the effect will be relatively less.

With the 'c' rebel much less of the light emitted at wide angle (or anywhere in the beam) will be of a wavelength conducive to reflecting efficiently of the green GITD surface and so the effect will be significantly lessened again, perhaps even to the point of making the green tinge around the edge of the beam imperceptible.


If you close one eye, turn the light on medium and point it sideways to your line of vision while looking at the head of the light, and then rotate it slowly until the emitter comes into your line of vision. You should first see the GITD surface lit up for a few degrees angle before the LED comes into view. If you can see this then at least some of the green fringe is coming from light reflected from the GITD reflector. The exact amount to which this effect is there will depend upon the light characteristics of the LED emitter itself and so would account for the variation between different models.


Personally I'll wait for the 'w' version, I prefer the lower CCT at lower lux values but the XM-L is more efficient and imo looks better slotted into the XM-L size cut-out behind the lense.


----------



## romteb

YoSeKi said:


> For throw, the intensity at the center matters the most, and you cannot collimate a 120 degree beam (that has the XML's beam distribution) into 80 degrees, have even beam distribution, and increase the lux at the center a noticeable amount at the same time.
> 
> If you want even beam distribution, the lux at the center would have to stay about the same, and so throw would stay about the same.
> 
> If you tried to increase the lux at the center, the effort would result in a hotspot.



Just looked at my H501 beam on a white wall, it's not even, there definitly is more intensity in the middle of the beam.
The 80° optic doesn't seem to even the beam as much as just narrowing it with it's spatial distribution characteristics.


----------



## Esko

YoSeKi said:


> You are probably right. 80% might be a little high. It may be closer to 70%. The spatial distribution graph of the XML is on page 8 of Cree XML datasheeet if anyone wants to look.



Or something like 40-50%. The graph has 2 dimensions, but the distribution is three-dimensional. It can be very misleading to just look at the graph, since the actual areas at the edges are much bigger than the area in the middle.

I am sorry I can't provide any exact numbers. It's been 15 years since my calculus lectures and I would have to do some re-reading.



YoSeKi said:


> The lumen/lux calculator from ledrise is not useful for this situation. As you said, intensity across the beam is not constant, and the calculator does not account for that.
> 
> For throw, the intensity at the center matters the most, and you cannot collimate a 120 degree beam (that has the XML's beam distribution) into 80 degrees, have even beam distribution, and increase the lux at the center at the same time. At least not enough for it to matter.
> 
> If you want even beam distribution, the lux at the center would have to stay about the same, and throw would stay about the same.
> 
> If you tried to increase the lux at the center, you would create a hotspot.



Surely I can collimate a 120 degree beam into a 80 degree beam by using a lens, or a 180 degree beam into a 80 degree beam by using a reflector. In the original plan, they were going to use a lens in H502 (see the Zebralight answer on first page). Preon P0 has a very even beam of some tens of degrees (no hot spot), and I doubt they did that by just wasting the sidespill (some 60-90% of the led output). Creating a hotspot is only one way to manipulate the beam.


----------



## insanefred

Esko said:


> Even if you don't look through the corners, your eyes/brains do register them, too. If something unusual happens in the periphery, your brains make you turn your eyes or head to that direction. Of course, if you want to concentrate on something from a distance, a tighter beam helps.
> 
> Luckily, it is easy to mod a 120 degree beam to a 80 degree beam. Just use some super glue and put an o-ring (or something else) around the bezel. Modding a 80 degree beam to a 120 degree beam is much more challenging. Some lumens will be lost, but if the light didn't use a lens or reflector, those lumens would be lost anyway.
> 
> That said, the leds emit light at a ~180 degree beam and H502 has a 120 degree beam. If the insides of the light were black, that light would be lost. The intensity might be small, but the area on which it is emitted is big, making the total amount of lumens significant. Those lumens go now to the GITD reflector.
> 
> And now to the pic I posted. The white balance is set at 5000K. S-mini has an XP-G E3 led, which means that it's CCT should be something between 4750-5300K (standard cri). It looks nicely white in the pic. Zebralight has a high cri rebel with a 5000K CCT. It looks greenish. And it is not just the periphery. To some degree, it is pretty much the whole beam (the center parts are over exposed in the pic; I also took an HDR pic which I didn't post).
> 
> Luckily, this is only visible when white wall hunting, and even then preferably with other lights to compare to. When using the light, it doesn't look green at all. It could be that the led has a greenish hue but I believe that it is due to the light reflected/transferred/absorbed/emitted by the GITD reflector. If you turn the light on high and cover the led with you finger, you can see that the reflector is glowing brightly and emitting "white" light to every direction.
> 
> Then there is the thin green ring in the outer edge of the beam. I believe this is due to the light reflected from the _surface_ of the GITD reflector (acting as a true reflector). It does make white look a bit greenish in actual use, but it is just the outer edge of the very wide 120 degree beam, so :shrug: .




I think that people that really care about tint and their use of the light. Have every right to be concerned about the green tint. Why bother going out of your way to buy a high CRI light and sacrifice out put to just get something that has a green tint to it?
Really, why bother?


----------



## YoSeKi

Esko said:


> Or something like 40-50%. The graph has 2 dimensions, but the distribution is three-dimensional. It can be very misleading to just look at the graph, since the actual areas at the edges are much bigger than the area in the middle.



You are right that I neglected the third dimension. Thank you for pointing that out. The graph does not say whether it measures light distribution across a single plane or across all planes. Until this is known, I guess the graph is not as useful as I had hoped. 

40-50% is a low estimate. Having worked with bare emitters, I can say that most of the useful light from an XML is inside the middle 80 degrees. I stand by my earlier estimate that about 70% of the useful light is in the middle 80 degrees.



Esko said:


> Surely I can collimate a 120 degree beam into a 80 degree beam by using a lens, or a 180 degree beam into a 80 degree beam by using a reflector.



A biconvex, plano convex, or positive meniscus lens would be able to narrow the 120 degree beam into an 80 degree beam. But one of the complaints about the H502 is that it has a faint hotspot, and the lens would only narrow, and not even out, the beam. The hotspot effect would only be accentuated. 

A parabolic reflector would create a hotspot. An ellipical reflector would create rings in the beam. I'm not entirely sure what a conical reflector would do, but I think that a highly reflective conical reflector would create a hotspot or rings of some form. 

Maybe an aspheric lens that takes the outer 20 degree ring and evenly fills in the inner 80 degrees would do the trick? But I doubt it would improve throw a noticeable amount.

Those are the only optical options I can think of. Are there others that I missed?


----------



## Photonrunner

There are many reasons an 80Degree 260 lumen flood headlight would have been a big hit opposed to a 120Deg. It would make an ideal running headlamp. Assuming even distribution of light, the 502 is not as bright as the 501 on high and therefore not a suitable replacement for running. 

Why a flood light and not the 600 you ask. Well looking at a bouncing hot spot for over an hour while running can get annoying. Also I'm not too keen on strapping a Li battery to my forehead while sweating profusely on it. Yes there is the H51f but if you've run with the 501 and 51f you'd appreciate the smaller size of the 501.




kwak said:


> For what?
> What possible use would you have for a light with an almost unnoticeably narrower beam?
> 
> What were you doing with your light where you felt 260lm was not enough light?
> 
> 
> 
> I keep bringing it up as i believe you are missing the point.
> 
> If a 80° beam spread was high on your priorities and you required more throw then the H600 is an option.
> 
> The H502 is a monumentally small light, it's NEVER going to be a thrower, so why waste time and effort narrowing the beam when it's pointless?
> 
> As i say what were you doing when you felt a narrower beam would have made a significant difference?
> 
> The reason i ask is that i've been using my H502's more than all my other lights put together recently and i cannot even imagine what you would want a narrower beam for.
> So without any further info on where you felt the light needed a narrower beam, it just seems to me that your being extremely pedantic about a problem that does not exist.
> 
> So could you please fill in the gaps.


----------



## YoSeKi

Photonrunner said:


> Assuming even distribution of light, the 502 is not as bright as the 501 on high...


Could you clarify?


----------



## kwak

Photonrunner said:


> There are many reasons an 80Degree 260 lumen flood headlight would have been a big hit opposed to a 120Deg. It would make an ideal running headlamp. Assuming even distribution of light, the 502 is not as bright as the 501 on high and therefore not a suitable replacement for running.
> 
> Why a flood light and not the 600 you ask. Well looking at a bouncing hot spot for over an hour while running can get annoying. Also I'm not too keen on strapping a Li battery to my forehead while sweating profusely on it. Yes there is the H51f but if you've run with the 501 and 51f you'd appreciate the smaller size of the 501.




Thanks for the response.

I think you are mistaken though, the H501 is 96 lumens, the H502 is 260 lumens.


That's where i am struggling to understand you see, as my H502 puts out a noticeably brighter beam in the 80° section of it's 120° beam that my H501 does.

There is no way i could run on the very rocky paths here with my H501, it just doesn't put out enough light.
My H502 though puts out more than enough light to run at a fair pace or even cycle off-road at a slower pace.


#edited to add
I can cycle off-road and still not run out of light even on fast downhills with my H600
Before the H502 arrived the H600 was my "outdoors" light that i used pretty much every night through winter.
I agree the bobbing is a problem but in my experience this is due to a poorly designed headband rather than the beam pattern of the light.

With regards to the lithium battery.
Hundreds of thousands if not millions of people have a lithium battery within a few mm of either their head or their gentiles for several hours a day.
If you own a mobile phone then you are one of those.

So it's not as bad as you think.


Again i am not trying to be argumentative here, i'm just giving my experience and opinion to further discussion.


----------



## Photonrunner

YoSeKi said:


> Could you clarify?



The light intensity of the 502 will only be 64% of the H501, if the light is evenly distributed about the whole beam circle.


----------



## kwak

Photonrunner said:


> The light intensity of the 502 will only be 64% of the H501, if the light is evenly distributed about the whole beam circle.



Speaking as someone that owns both lights i can say with 100% conviction that the H502 is dramatically brighter than my H501.
In fact my H502d (170 lumens) is dramatically brighter than my H501w.


Again this is where i'm struggling to understand the requests for a narrower beam spread on the H502.
It really really does not need it in any situation i've used the light (and that is several hours over the past few weeks)


----------



## Photonrunner

If you do the math assuming the 502 and 501 evenly distribute there lumens the beam intensity is higher on the 96 lumen 80deg beam than the 260 120deg beam. I don't have the 502 primarily because of this reason. so I can't do a real world comparison. However I run a lot with my 501 and it's sufficient for road running at decent clip 5:30/mi to 6:00/mi If I go on trails I bring something in hand with a little more throw. This is why I would love a 502 80 deg 260 lumen head lamp. Would like more throw to see obstacles further ahead. I haven't tried the 502 due to my scepticism of the 120deg beam, but perhaps I'm wrong and it's sufficient light or better than the 501. Would like to hear a real world comparison for running if someone has the time and both models.


----------



## psychbeat

kwak said:


> Speaking as someone that owns both lights i can say with 100% conviction that the H502 is dramatically brighter than my H501.
> In fact my H502d (170 lumens) is dramatically brighter than my H501w.
> 
> 
> Again this is where i'm struggling to understand the requests for a narrower beam spread on the H502.
> It really really does not need it in any situation i've used the light (and that is several hours over the past few weeks)



the idea is MORE not less I think.
80degree with more lux/brightness @ any given level as opposed to less lux and more spread @ 120

the 501 has a different driver and emitter so its hard to compare maximums.

some people might prefer (myself included) having the extra flood concentrated into a beam that is similar to the H501 but
with the more efficient emitter and better ergonomics of the H502


also - does there need to be 2 threads on this?
maybe we should talk about this in Davids poll thread.


----------



## YoSeKi

Photonrunner said:


> The light intensity of the 502 will only be 64% of the H501, if the light is evenly distributed about the whole beam circle.



How did you get that figure, 64%?


----------



## Photonrunner

kwak said:


> Speaking as someone that owns both lights i can say with 100% conviction that the H502 is dramatically brighter than my H501.
> In fact my H502d (170 lumens) is dramatically brighter than my H501w.
> 
> 
> Again this is where i'm struggling to understand the requests for a narrower beam spread on the H502.
> It really really does not need it in any situation i've used the light (and that is several hours over the past few weeks)



Comparing brightness may depend on the environment you are doing the comparison. For instance if you compare brightness in a confined space you may get a lot of light reflection back into your field of vision. If your outside with nothing around the results might be quite different. Would be interested in a comparison outside without walls/ceilings reflecting light back.


----------



## Photonrunner

YoSeKi said:


> How did you get that figure, 64%?



a 120 deg beam circle area is 4.26 times larger than a 80deg beam circle area.
So divide the lumens by area
(502 lumens / 120deg circle area) / (501 lumens / 80deg circle area ) =
(502 Lumens / 501 Lumens) * (80deg circle area / 120 deg circle area) =
(260/96) *(1/4.26) =
260/(96*4.26) = .64 the intensity of the 501 or 64% the intensity.


----------



## YoSeKi

Maybe someone has both the H60 and the H502 and would compare them side by side for us. H60 (190 lumens, 80 degrees, positive meniscus lens) would make good comparison to see if a collimating lens gives better throw in real life.


----------



## Surnia

ordered a H502d! However, I'm a bit worried at how green it might look, given by how green it looks on Esko's picture... 



Photonrunner said:


> a 120 deg beam circle area is 4.26 times larger than a 80deg beam circle area.
> So divide the lumens by area
> (502 lumens / 120deg circle area) / (501 lumens / 80deg circle area ) =
> (502 Lumens / 501 Lumens) * (80deg circle area / 120 deg circle area) =
> (260/96) *(1/4.26) =
> 260/(96*4.26) = .64 the intensity of the 501 or 64% the intensity.



you're assuming the light is evenly distributed across the entire circle of illumination; however its been pointed out multiple times that the light output is NOT even. There's a distribution gradient that's even available by the Cree information pdfs on their website. 

YoSeKi has had experience with the XM-Ls and has also stated that it is approximately 70% output within an 80º arc.


----------



## YoSeKi

Surnia said:


> YoSeKi has had experience with the XM-Ls and has also stated that it is approximately 70% output within an 80º arc.



I urge everyone, regarding everything, to not draw conclusions until you see for yourself.

Assumptions can be wrong and trying to account for all of the variables in theory might not reflect reality.

Don't just believe what some stranger on the internet tells you either. Especially me!  Because even if he has experience with something, he might not perceive or prefer things the way you do. 

Some things you just have to see for yourself.

PS: 1000th post of the thread!!


----------



## psychbeat

YoSeKi said:


> I urge everyone, regarding everything, to not draw conclusions until you see for yourself.



yah we need someone to point these little buggers @ a lux meter

the thing is - H60 is a different emitter than 502

an accurate test would require the same drivers + emitters and different optics or no optic etc.


----------



## Photonrunner

Surnia said:


> ordered a H502d! However, I'm a bit worried at how green it might look, given by how green it looks on Esko's picture...
> 
> 
> 
> you're assuming the light is evenly distributed across the entire circle of illumination; however its been pointed out multiple times that the light output is NOT even. There's a distribution gradient that's even available by the Cree information pdfs on their website.
> 
> YoSeKi has had experience with the XM-Ls and has also stated that it is approximately 70% output within an 80º arc.



I've stated in my previous posts this number assumes even distribution, which in my opinion should be a reasonable assumption for a flood light. I was answering YoSeki's question on the actual calculation.

I'd be interested in seeing how the 70% number in the80deg arc was arrived at. Would appreciate any details on how this was arrived at. ~3/4 of the output in 1/4 of the beam area is not very even for a flood light.


----------



## srfreddy

Photonrunner said:


> I've stated in my previous posts this number assumes even distribution, which in my opinion should be a reasonable assumption for a flood light. I was answering YoSeki's question on the actual calculation.
> 
> I'd be interested in seeing how the 70% number in the80deg arc was arrived at. Would appreciate any details on how this was arrived at. ~3/4 of the output in 1/4 of the beam area is not very even for a flood light.



I believe thats the standard light distribution of the XML.


----------



## Esko

YoSeKi said:


> However, 40-50% is a low estimate. Having worked with bare emitters, I can say that most of the useful light from an XML is inside the middle 80 degrees. I stand by my earlier estimate that about 70% of the useful light is in the middle 80 degrees.



Yet the best Zebralight throwers (like SC600) use that almost useless light to create the hot spot. They are listed as having a 80 degree spill (the center beam) and 10 degree hot spot (the collimated beam from the rest of the led emission).

Aspherical throwers often lose most of the led output because they only use the center beam. The aspheric version of the new Crelant thrower has only a small intensity gain compared to the reflector version. Aspheric lens uses the center beam. The reflector version uses the side spill, creating an almost as bright (but also wider) hotspot as the aspheric version (+the reflectored one has also spill, unlike the aspheric one).



YoSeKi said:


> A biconvex, plano convex, or positive meniscus lens would be able to narrow the 120 degree beam into an 80 degree beam. But one of the complaints about the H502 is that it has a faint hotspot, and the lens would only narrow, and not even out, the beam. The hotspot effect would only be accentuated.
> 
> A parabolic reflector would create a hotspot. An ellipical reflector would create rings in the beam. I'm not entirely sure what a conical reflector would do, but I think that a highly reflective conical reflector would create a hotspot or rings of some form.
> 
> Maybe a custom aspheric that takes the outer 20 degree ring and evenly fills in the inner 80 degrees would do the trick? But I doubt it would improve throw a noticeable amount.
> 
> Those are the only optical options I can think of. Are there others that I missed?



A plano convex lens was the original plan.

Well, I am not an illumination designer, and certainly not a reflector or lens designer. But lets ad the custom shape reflectors, TIR lenses (like in Preon P0), matte finishes, white surface instead of mirror (practically the same efficiency but less directional), orange peel, very small reflectors compared to the led size (compare it to DEFT), partly transparent parts (like the current GITD reflector) etc. And the combinations of the different solutions.


----------



## Photonrunner

srfreddy said:


> I believe thats the standard light distribution of the XML.


I see thanks for the response. Does the 502 just use the bare emitter distribution? I thought they were going to have a lens to even out distribution.


----------



## wuyeah

I just received my H502d so I figure I butt in to give my impression. I own Surefire LX2 & Sunwayman V10 Ti original (not XML) and briefly own ZL H31F before I return and exchange for H502d. As you know I do not own many lights and inexperience to compare with many models.

*Size:* I didn't get "surprised" when i receive H502d. I sure did when I received H31F. Due to battery size difference, Comparing size to H31F is kinda Apple vs Orange. H502d sure is small and descent. H31F being noticeable smaller, the same time, it is a bit too small to be comfortably operate. My hand is already tiny as an adult. I have female size hand. Although I didn't get the initial excitement from H502d's size, it is more comfortable to operate that I don't feel afraid I will accidentally drop it. 

*Flood & Floody:* Briefly own H31F and now own H502d I finally get the first hand experience the difference between the two. H502d is wider. Pretty amazing coverage from this little light. I sure understand why H502d is not a distance player. H31F doesn't provide as wide coverage. As much I love H502d coverage, I do wish it could light brighter at farther distance as H31F would but that is the trade off. My NYC living room is only 15ft X 10ft. At maximum distance, already feel it is not as bright as I wish. With that said, I am able to see everything clearly in 15ft. Just not that bright. This light is tiny, already impressive amount of light it put out.

*Color Tint: *This seems to be most of my concern. I shoot a lot of still live product photo and some time wish to fill light. H31F has blue-ish cool tint. To be honest, terrible rendering product color. It makes product color with purple color on top of products original colors. Main reason I return it. To work H502d with 100W light bulb together, H502d color tint appear to be slight cool at distance but no harsh purple color. At close rage, H502d fill the light really well. The cool color goes away. You only feel H502d color rendering is consider cool at 2ft or more distance. To work H502d with single Fluorescent (they call it daylight) together, H502d fill the light really well. At 1ft distance, it appear brighter than my fluorescent light on HIGH. The color tint appear to be less blue than the Fluorescent light source. Perfect light to fill at distance or close range. My photography under the same fluorescent with WB:daylight has been fantastic result. i have no doubt my H502d will be a good future side kick.

*White wall hunting:* This is most ppl's concern and unsure of. The reason is simple, because the light tint does change to eyes and it is hard to explain why since I am no scientist. Easier to understand when you see it yourself. Here I'll try to explain the best I can. In pure darkness in a white 15ft x 10ft room with only H502d on high. At distance 10ft+, the light tint appear or feel like it is cool. Because definitely no yellow tint. There is no purple/blue-ish tint. You can fairly say, it is WHITE, white. Because there is no warm/cool tint, the color do feel cold. At palm width distance to wall, H502d appear to be cool-ish white at center and a hint of green at end outer rim. At finger length distance to wall, and compare side by side with LX2 and V10R. H502d in comparison the beam tint appear to be warm. It appear slight warm in color. That is what makes H502d tint tricky to describe. 

*Sum it up:* IMHO, I don't think it is GITD that give out a hint of green at outter rim. Not scientific proof of course. I as I said, H502d at finger length looks slightly warm and when you back a little farther, due to not enough brightness at outer rim, the hint of warmness became green-ish on white wall. When back it out a lot more, the hint of warmness goes away not noticeable at all to eyes and became over all white/white. Because the white is so pure, eyes will proceed the color as cool feel. The end of the day, less likely anyone will use H502d at finger distance or palm distance will feel the light is behave on the cool side overall. I will bring this light to camping this weekend. I'll feed you guys more of my personal experience using it in the wild. As short distance for fill light photography, this light tint perhaps is my best bet for the purpose. Personally, I def will not buy another Zebralight Cool tint light in the future. Even they are so much brighter. I just hate the color. BTW...the pocket clip is hard on Zebralight. I was moving it slightly around, the clip do scratch the light finish...


----------



## MichaelW

LEDs aren't flood lights [pure point sources] unless they are de-domed.
The H501 & H502 use their own means of controlling distribution.
So the H502 is more versatile with the wider distribution, unless the extra beam angle causes glare with eyeglasses.

But for running, why not just use the H51Fw? I re-routed Zebralight's inferior band system so the silicone holder no longer just hangs off the headband, and bounces with each step. [I will still acquire the NiteIze headband in the future].
I just tested my H31Fw outside, and the 35 lumen mode is plenty bright on brown-ish midwestern grass [perfect for jogging pace]. The 98 lumen is gratuitously bright [running], and the 180 lumen mode seems bright enough for a sprint.
So an H51Fw with an Energizer L91 should give 3.5 hours on its 82 lumen mode, and 2.5 hours on its 115 lumen mode. So how fast is your marathon pace? [would the TI crAA 14505 possibly last even longer due to higher voltage, and hence higher circuit efficiency?]


----------



## Photonrunner

MichaelW said:


> LEDs aren't flood lights [pure point sources] unless they are de-domed.
> The H501 & H502 use their own means of controlling distribution.
> So the H502 is more versatile with the wider distribution, unless the extra beam angle causes glare with eyeglasses.
> 
> But for running, why not just use the H51Fw? I re-routed Zebralight's inferior band system so the silicone holder no longer just hangs off the headband, and bounces with each step. [I will still acquire the NiteIze headband in the future].
> I just tested my H31Fw outside, and the 35 lumen mode is plenty bright on brown-ish midwestern grass [perfect for jogging pace]. The 98 lumen is gratuitously bright [running], and the 180 lumen mode seems bright enough for a sprint.
> So an H51Fw with an Energizer L91 should give 3.5 hours on its 82 lumen mode, and 2.5 hours on its 115 lumen mode. So how fast is your marathon pace? [would the TI crAA 14505 possibly last even longer due to higher voltage, and hence higher circuit efficiency?]



I have the H51 and use it sometimes but like the 501 better due to less bounce and no hot spot. I didn't bother getting the H51FW due to its larger size. But as you pointed out maybe i could experiment with a different headband setup to minimise bouncing. How did you do the rerouting of the headband? I may give that a shot if it helps the bouncing. Would be curious about the NiteIze too if anyone can chime in on that for running. I agree the 98 lumens is bright enough for most situations, however on trails or areas with more terrain changes I would like to see a bit further ahead so something doesn't come up on me to fast. Typically train 100 to 150 MPW at ~6:00 to 5:30 pace, my marathon PR is 5:28 pace, so far but think I can hit 5:20 pace if I get a good one. I like to stick with enloops L91's would get expensive quick, and any LI battery scares me enough to keep off my head!


----------



## wuyeah

My above H502d review is perform with Energizer Ultimate Lithium x9 (improved) batteries. Man, they are mad expensive. $15 for 4. I thought CR123 was pricy.....
Question, Is AA lithium really perform that much better over Energizer Alkaline or Energizer Max batteries in term of performance time and brightness? If not, I prob should run it with Alkaline AA or not as expensive Lithium batteries. What you guys recommendation for AA batteries run on ZL?


----------



## Photonrunner

wuyeah said:


> My above H502d review is perform with Energizer Ultimate Lithium x9 (improved) batteries. Man, they are mad expensive. $15 for 4. I thought CR123 was pricy.....
> Question, Is AA lithium really perform that much better over Energizer Alkaline or Energizer Max batteries in term of performance time and brightness? If not, I prob should run it with Alkaline AA or not as expensive Lithium batteries. What you guys recommendation for AA batteries run on ZL?



I run Enloops or Duraloops. IMHO Nickle Metal Hydride rechargeable's are the most economical solution for ZL's. Heck the new enloops give you ~1300 hours (1500 recharges ) at max off of one AA!


----------



## bbb74

Photonrunner said:


> I'd be interested in seeing how the 70% number in the80deg arc was arrived at. Would appreciate any details on how this was arrived at. ~3/4 of the output in 1/4 of the beam area is not very even for a flood light.



Its a misunderstanding of the cree spec sheet. There are actually multiple mistakes being made.

Firstly the h502 has a total of 120 degree spread, that is *60 degrees* either side of centre.

Head on (0 degrees), the xm-l's output is obviously at the peak of its distribution (100%). 

At a 40 degree angle either side of centre (80 degrees total, ie a h501), the XM-L is at ~85% of peak intensity. So you wouldn't notice this small falloff in general.

At 60 degrees either side of center (120 degrees total, ie a h502), its intensity is 55% of the peak which you will notice only a little bit. This also does NOT mean that 55% of the light is in the 120 degree spread, just that at a 60 degree angle the lux is 55% that of 0 degrees - see further below.

At 80 degrees either side of centre (160 degrees total), its intensity is just 15% of the peak. This is a total *160 *degree spread, not 80 degrees. The 15% is a measurement of lux at that angle, not lumens that are output at more than 80 degrees off centre.

None of this takes into account any kind of lenses or reflectors, its purely what comes out of the led.

To calculate the proportion of lumens coming out at different angles needs a bit of math. Using rough figures from the graph in the cree spec sheet, I get the following 

0-20 degrees (40 total): 11% of lumens
0-40 degrees (80 total): 41% of lumens
0-60 degrees (120 total): 77% of lumens

So the edge of the 502's beam, only gets 55% of the intensity that the centre of the beam gets direct from the led unless it is using a lens to adjust this. And 23% of the led's output is hitting the "reflector" (unless there is a lens between the led and the reflector).

If someone wants to check my maths that would be nice. Note I used the following numbers:

regionrelative intensity0-2096%20-4090%40-6070%60-8035%80-905%


----------



## insanefred

Guys, please stop it with the mattthhhhhh.


----------



## Ezeriel

psychbeat said:


> yah we need someone to point these little buggers @ a lux meter



Someone must have a lux meter, can we get some real numbers, please?

All of the theorycraft is hurting my head


----------



## Esko

bbb74 said:


> To calculate the proportion of lumens coming out at different angles needs a bit of math. Using rough figures from the graph in the cree spec sheet, I get the following
> 
> 0-20 degrees (40 total): 11% of lumens
> 0-40 degrees (80 total): 41% of lumens
> 0-60 degrees (120 total): 77% of lumens



I didn't check the calculations, but these are quite close to the results I was expecting.



Esko said:


> YoSeKi said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are probably right. 80% might be a little high. It may be closer to 70%.
> 
> 
> 
> Or something like 40-50%.
Click to expand...




Ezeriel said:


> Someone must have a lux meter, can we get some real numbers, please?
> 
> All of the theorycraft is hurting my head



You can't measure surface area (total output of lumens) with a lux meter only. :ironic:

I have a lux meter, and a quick handheld test gave a result that the beam intensity drops to ~50% at the periphery (measured at the same distance - it would drop more on white wall because the distance is not constant).


----------



## riccardo.dv

Update: 15 days and no reply from zebralight for the h502 i sent for an rma. I think I will never buy one of their lights again


----------



## bbb74

Esko said:


> You can't measure surface area (total output of lumens) with a lux meter only. :ironic:



That's exactly correct so somebody else gets it  The maths involves calculating the surface area of a spherical cap or spherical segment and then weighting the surface areas of that segment against the approx relative lux in that segment from the xm-l spec sheet. (Think of a sphere, with the LED in the exact middle pointing straight up. The 0-20 degree "band" forms a cone that intersects the outside of the sphere and creates a cap at the top, and you calculate the surface area of the cap. Then take the 20-40 degree band and do the same etc etc.). The amount of light in each of those bands is related to BOTH the band's surface area, and the relative intensity of the xm-l at those angles.

Anyway, I was using my h502c last night to read with, and I have to admit that when I moved and the edge of the beam ended up on the book, I didn't like the yellowy-greeny edge of the beam which is a shame because the overall tint is fantastic. The coloured band is in the edge of the main beam which includes light coming directly from the led (the led is directly contributing light to the green bit of the beam). ie. The green tinted bit contains light coming from the led and reflector, not just from the reflector only. Yet the reflector is not that bright at that angle so I still don't really get why it happens so visibly.


----------



## davidt1

Photonrunner said:


> If you do the math assuming the 502 and 501 evenly distribute there lumens the beam intensity is higher on the 96 lumen 80deg beam than the 260 120deg beam. I don't have the 502 primarily because of this reason. so I can't do a real world comparison. However I run a lot with my 501 and it's sufficient for road running at decent clip 5:30/mi to 6:00/mi If I go on trails I bring something in hand with a little more throw. This is why I would love a 502 80 deg 260 lumen head lamp. Would like more throw to see obstacles further ahead. I haven't tried the 502 due to my scepticism of the 120deg beam, but perhaps I'm wrong and it's sufficient light or better than the 501. Would like to hear a real world comparison for running if someone has the time and both models.



My respond to your fine post was lost. I am responding again.

You use the H501 to run with and wish it was brighter and therefore throw better. You are not alone. I had the H501 and felt the same way. The H502 with 260lm, if made in an 80 degree beam, might have been the answer. Would 260lm in an 80 degree beam provide more throw than 80lm in an 80 degree beam? I would think so. 

You post is so clear I think a doorknob would understand. Thank you.


----------



## Ezeriel

but if we knew how much lux the light produced at 1 meter we would have a general idea of how dispersed the light is when compared to other lights and even when just looking at the stats, X amount of lux at one meter with a X foot area of coverage.. that's something I can wrap my head around


----------



## Bolster

*H502c In Practice (Non-theoretical!)*

I put my H502c to hard use last night. 

A contractor and I are re-roofing my garage, starting with a complete tear-off. Tricky summer weather here, 104 degrees in the day, but thunderstorms can build with little warning. Yesterday I thought I heard thunder around 5 pm, and told the contractor I really, really wanted to get the tar paper on, by the end of the day. So we pushed it hard, and started laying the tar paper around 2 hrs AFTER sunset. 

So this is a difficult test for a headlamp: I'm putting on a pitch-black substance which soaks up light like a sponge. But it must be placed with a precise overlap and no bubbles or wrinkles. Due to various obstacles the job took several hours so I needed runtime. And I'm clinging to the side of a 40-degree roof, which wants to pitch me off, so the light is vital to safety as well (seeing where to step, stubbing toe on a shiner, etc.)

The color of the OSB ("plywood") is about the same color as our compressed air hoses, yellow. I was able to make out the subtle difference in color well enough to not step on a line (they'll roll underfoot, and off the roof you go!). There was enough light with enough runtime to complete the job on the Medium (Hi) level, and I probably could have used the Hi (Lo) level but was conserving runtime as I had forgotten to put a spare cell in my pocket. (Dumb.)

There were two or thee times when I "ran out of light" at the edge of the beam--ie, the beam was not quite wide enough!! This required repositioning my body so I could throw the beam where it needed to go...but this was a learning moment about the importance of a full flood for close work. The H502c now replaces the narrower-beamed H501 as my preferred work light, primarily because of its extra beam width.

Verdict: Wide beam, sufficient illumination, good color rendering, no falls, tough job completed. A keeper. Will need to get a spare, likely a "w" for comparison purposes.


----------



## Diablo_331

It seems my last post was lost so here it goes again.
I received my 502c a few days ago. There is an obvious green hue around the outer edge but I can't really see it in real use so it doesn't bother me. I can also see some light leaking through around the switch boot so I guess this means that I got one of the less than water resistant duds. It's going back and I just may wait a few more months for a revision to be released. This is my first true flood light and I'm so excited that I'm not ready to give up on the 502c just yet..


----------



## lampeDépêche

So how hard would it be for someone with both a 501 and any of the 502s to set up a light-meter at 1 meter, and see which of them gets a higher figure?

That would at least tell us something about their relative throw, right? I know that the full story is more complicated, but that would be an interesting number to start with, and should not be too hard to come by.


----------



## YoSeKi

Photonrunner said:


> I run a lot with my 501 and it's sufficient for road running at decent clip 5:30/mi to 6:00/mi If I go on trails I bring something in hand with a little more throw. This is why I would love a 502 80 deg 260 lumen head lamp. Would like more throw to see obstacles further ahead. I haven't tried the 502 due to my scepticism of the 120deg beam, but perhaps I'm wrong and it's sufficient light or better than the 501. Would like to hear a real world comparison for running if someone has the time and both models.



I don't think a brighter version of H501 is really the answer. The H60 is a brighter version of the H501. Same lens, same emitter. I don't think the H60 has enough throw for running on trails. I don't think a 80 degree version of the H502 would have enough throw either.

Maybe someone with an H60 can tell us.



davidt1 said:


> Would 260lm in an 80 degree beam provide more throw than 80lm in an 80 degree beam? I would think so.



I think, maybe, a pure flood light is not what you want. I think you want a reflector and heavy diffuser or an optic such as this: http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/images/upload/Image/DSCF1595.JPG.

If you want an even beam that has enough throw for an "intermediate" effect, a pure flood light just may not be what you are wanting.


----------



## YoSeKi

lampeDépêche said:


> So how hard would it be for someone with both a 501 and any of the 502s to set up a light-meter at 1 meter, and see which of them gets a higher figure?



I think the best test would be to compare H501, H502, and H51F at 3 meters. H51F would be sort of like control. If H501 has twice the throw of H502 but has 1/10th or less the throw of H51F for example, then the difference between H501 and H502 maybe does not really matter.


----------



## davidt1

YoSeKi said:


> The H60 is a brighter version of the H501. Same lens, same emitter. I don't think the H60 has enough throw for running on trails. I don't think a 80 degree version of the H502 would have enough throw either.
> 
> Maybe someone with an H60 can tell us.
> 
> 
> 
> I think, maybe, a pure flood light is not what you want. I think you want a reflector and heavy diffuser or an optic such as this: http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/images/upload/Image/DSCF1595.JPG.
> 
> If you want an even beam that has enough throw for an "intermediate" effect, a pure flood light just may not be for you.



I used the H501 running and LIKED it a lot. Like many owners of the H501, I wished it was a bit brighter and therefore throw further. In fact I know for sure 260lm, just look ahead while cycling through the modes. You will able to see further and the light is brighter.


----------



## YoSeKi

davidt1 said:


> I used the H501 running and LIKED it a lot. Like many owners of the H501, I wished it was a bit brighter and therefore throw further.



You are saying that you want a beam that looks like H501 beam but throws farther. I am saying that 190 lumen or 260 lumen beam that looks like beam you want might not throw as far as you think it can.

Light intensity has inverse square relationship. If you want to double distance for throw, you need four times more intensity. If you want two times the throw of H501 or more, practically speaking, you will need an optical system that has a reflector or you will need more light than one AA battery can make.



davidt1 said:


> In fact I know for sure 260lm, just look ahead while cycling through the modes. You will able to see further and the light is brighter.



I do not understand what you mean by this. Can you explain?


----------



## davidt1

YoSeKi said:


> You are saying that you want a beam that looks like H501 beam but throws farther. I am saying that 190 lumen or 260 lumen beam that looks like beam you want might not throw as far as you think it can.
> 
> Light intensity has inverse square relationship. If you want to double distance for throw, you need four times more intensity. If you want two times the throw of H501 or more, practically speaking, you will need an optical system that has a reflector or you will need more light than one AA battery can make.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not understand what you mean by this. Can you explain?



I know what works for me. Please stop telling me what works for me. Yes we all know a bigger headlamp with a reflector will throw more. I have the H51w. 

Part of my post was missing. What I wanted to say was this:

I know 260lm in an 80 degree will throw more than 80lm in an 80 degree. There is a simple way to test this. Take your flood light, look ahead while you cycle through the modes. You should be able to further when the light is brighter.


----------



## bbb74

I think I have figured out the mystery of the green ring! I have the 502c and it has a more yellow with slight green ring.

I took a series of macro photos of the light from the side, starting outside the edge of the beam and working my way through the yellow/green bit and then past it into the normal tinted part. I used high shutter speeds so I didn't burn out any colours, and then looked at the RGB values.

1. Outside of the beam, no part of the LED is visible. There's an insignificant amount of light - a little bit of scatter off the glass and a small point off the silver retaining ring. There is less coming off the "reflector" than the glass, put it that way.

2. In the yellow/green zone of the beam - The yellow/green zone is not "hard" - it graduates in brightness and tint. There's a slight (but still insignificant) increase in scatter light from the glass. However as the dome of the led gradually comes into view, at first you can see the top of the dome but not the base where the light comes from. The dome is still fairly bright (scattered light I guess again) and is yellow in tint (lots of red&green, far far less blue) and this is probably where the tinted edge is coming from. There is little contribution from the reflector but not a great deal, a typical RGB value for the least dark part of the reflector is 63:46:16 (decimal) compared to the top (darkest part) of the dome being 248:204:69.

3. Rotating a little bit further, you can then see a refracted view of the led emitter surface through the dome start to come into view. Its blue content is quite low at first but increases rapidly with the angle until it has only a little less blue than red&green so the light is white-ish. Its either this or #2 above that provides the tinted region. 

4. Rotating a touch further and you have pretty white light with a less distorted view of the emitter through the dome. The tip of the dome at this angle is still providing a little bit of yellow-green but is now dwarfed by the main part of the emitting surface.

So my conclusion through observation is that it is actually the led's "fault" and it is not the reflector. And it is related to the very wide viewing angle of the h502 - it only takes a small reduction in angle for the tint to go away, and this is at the point when the emitter surface of the led becomes directly visible. The tinted bit is caused by tinted light coming out of the led dome at extreme angles where the emitter surface is out of view or just coming into view. So I would say the problem would go away if the viewing angle was, say, 100-110 degrees total instead of 120 degrees. It is NOT the GITD "reflector".


----------



## thaugen

My H502d just arrived and I like the headlamp and tint, but is definitely has an greenish tint around the edge of the beam.


----------



## RedForest UK

@bbb74, that is very interesting and exactly the right kind of approach to working it out. What you found isn't what I expected but kudos to you for putting the time in to actually get some solid evidence one way or the other.

One thing I would say is that the brightness of the GITD reflector surface being low may lead to an underestimation of the contribution of green light off of it's surface in relation to the small but much brighter point of the top of the LED dome. The GITD surface would be low in brightness but have a much larger area all contributing to the 'green' light hitting the point from which the image was taken.

I hadn't considered it but maybe the optical characteristics of the dome and lense lead to a very high level of green wavelength at certain (very wide) viewing angles, sort of like a dispersive prism. If this effect is mainly due to the dome it may also go some way to what is actually causing the apparent green tint on other LEDs at wide angle (or in the corona in a reflectored light) too. That's just me thinking out loud (figuratively, I suppose my thoughts will actually go straight into your own head via these words :thinking though, I don't know if that is actually the case or not.


----------



## riccardo.dv

riccardo.dv said:


> I have sent the light (for the infiltration water issue) to Zebralight almost 2 weeks ago and I didn't received any answer yet. Any of you has experience with their customer service?



16 days has gone and zebralight never answered. 
Their customer service is horrible!
I'll never buy one of theyr lights again, hope you guys won't have issues with your zebras


----------



## YoSeKi

davidt1 said:


> I know what works for me. Please stop telling me what works for me. Yes we all know a bigger headlamp with a reflector will throw more. I have the 1H51w.



I am not trying to tell you what works for you. I am sorry if it comes across that way. I am trying to explain that the light that you want is maybe not feasible with existing technology. 

I think you said that you want a beam that looks like the H501 beam but throws farther.

What I am saying is that a beam that looks like the H501 will not throw as far as you probably want without you put a kind of reflector on it or the light is 400 lumens bright or brighter. Either way, the light that you want would have to be bigger than a H502 because you need room for optic or bigger battery.

To say that "80 degree beam will throw more" without offering a feasible way of accomplishing task is kind of, I don't know, like being Monday Morning Quarterback. It is easy to say and demand. But maybe if it was easy, it would have been done already. 




davidt1 said:


> I know 260lm in an 80 degree will throw more than 80lm in an 80 degree.



This is true if two beams have everything equal except output. If both beams use same emitter and same optic, then 260lm beam will throw 1.8 times farther than 80lm beam. 

If you have different emitters, then who know. H501 used XRE which throws better than XML. Unless 260lm light also uses XRE, it is not apples to apples comparison.



davidt1 said:


> There is a simple way to test this. Take your flood light, look ahead while you cycle through the modes. You should be able to further when the light is brighter.



True. But the increase in throw is not as significant once you go above certain level. From 5 lumen to 20 lumen is significant. From 20 to 80 is significant. From 80 to 160 is not as significant. You would need to go from 80 to 320 to get same kind of increase.


----------



## psychbeat

Umm - an 80deg optic vs 120deg optic with any emitter the 80 should have a higher overall lux. 
Unless its somehow impossible to make an 80deg optic for a rebel or XML. 

This argument is getting boring. 
Id like to see some lux readings. 

We always want more throw from our floods and more spill from our throwers 
We r FLASHAHOLICS!!

I still want an H60w too... There's an Australian vendor that has some but I'm in Cali. 
501w is a collector light now!! Hehe


----------



## thaugen

I put the H502d through its paces last night and I like this light! I would prefer no green ring, but it doesn't seem as defined on the H502d as it was with my H502. I love the tint and HCRI color rendering and, the H502d is plenty bright for my usage.


----------



## bbb74

psychbeat said:


> Umm - an 80deg optic vs 120deg optic with any emitter the 80 should have a higher overall lux.
> Unless its somehow impossible to make an 80deg optic for a rebel or XML.
> 
> This argument is getting boring.



Its getting boring because people keep posting rubbish like that...

What do you think will have more lux: An old 5mm 10 lumen led with a 80 degree optic, or a 260 lumen h502 with a 120 degree optic? So do you really still think that a 80 degree optic is always going to have more lux than a 120 degree optic now? Think before you post.


----------



## Ezeriel

riccardo.dv said:


> 16 days has gone and zebralight never answered.
> Their customer service is horrible!
> I'll never buy one of theyr lights again, hope you guys won't have issues with your zebras



I ordered a light wednesday morning, they didn't tell usps to even pick it up till friday afternoon, and as far as I can tell they still haven't picked it up (saturday)

A month from now, when it shows up, I'll let you all know what I think about it


----------



## varuscelli

Ezeriel said:


> I ordered a light wednesday morning, they didn't tell usps to even pick it up till friday afternoon, and as far as I can tell they still haven't picked it up (saturday)
> 
> A month from now, when it shows up, I'll let you all know what I think about it



If you're in the USA (or dealing with ZebraLight in the USA) and making a simple purchase, it will be a lot different than living in Europe and dealing with ZebraLight China. There's a big difference in a return from Europe to China (where you're dealing with shipping both ways and evaluation of the problem in between) and a USA sale/delivery. I'd have to guess that you'll have your light by next week, as long as they had it in stock.


----------



## RedForest UK

bbb74 said:


> Its getting boring because people keep posting rubbish like that...
> 
> What do you think will have more lux: An old 5mm 10 lumen led with a 80 degree optic, or a 260 lumen h502 with a 120 degree optic? So do you really still think that a 80 degree optic is always going to have more lux than a 120 degree optic now? Think before you post.



Sorry but he obviously means an 80 degree optic will always outhrow a 120 degree optic with any emitter at the same drive current in both of them.

This is true (assuming a less than massive difference in optical efficiency).

I would also have preferred an 80 degree optic on the H502, and if it could have been done with 90% + the optical efficiency of the 120 degree one it certainly would have meant the H502 would throw much more than it does.

I don't see what is to argue about here really..

I agree people shouldn't dismiss the H502 because they feel it has less throw than the H501, it does have more. The H502 will out-throw the H501, simply through sheer lumens. But this is despite the wider optic, not independent of it.

If the H502 had been designed with an 80 degree optic it would not only have better throw than the H501 it replaces, but also significantly more than it does in it's current form. People aren't complaining about less throw on the H502 (at least they shouldn't be) but they are complaining about a missed opportunity by zebralight to give an optic based full flood beam at a much higher intensity than they did, and therefore more throw.


----------



## wuyeah

Hello guys, I just got back from Camp site with my H502d and it was my most used light for the whole weekend since friday night. Here are some of my impression:
At camp site, I didn't actually feel the much need to take out my good throw Surefire Lx2 except I was trying to impress my friends about the throw beam. NY state camp site is not hardcore camping, most of time I try to light things up within 50 feet and the light perfor very well. Especially when we didn't have enough wood for fire the first night, the H502d is best to light up big area searching for small woods. In the wild, the green rim really is not noticeable. Though, H502d does tint does appear to be cool. I am ok with tint for general use but in my mind, I do wish that I pickup warm version. Especially when we BBQ meat. I was helping to light the area up, another friend of mine use incan 4D Maglite to light the meat also. I must say, warm light is the king. The warm color makes the food looks so much tastier during waiting....light It is def not as bright as my friend's Jetbeam BC10 but the same no one else can lid up the area better than I do. In distance, this light really isn't that bright which most who select H502 are expected this is not a light for distance.

Lots friends asked me about Zebralight on this trip. Mainly due to Zebralight Headlamp's unique design. I didn't use headband. Simply clip it on my t-shirt on left collar and hand free. Most ppl just impressed by the way I easy operate my light without holding it. To sum things up. When H502w is out, I plan to buy one. I certain much prefer camping with warm light. As soon as I see the comparison of incan on meat, I am sold on the warm tint concept. Still, I am very happy with H502d during this trip over all.


----------



## Brasso

I picked up a 502d just to see what a cool tint, high cri light looked like. It's fine. I wish I had gotten the "c" version though. Warmer is better. I still think my H51fw is a better all around headlamp.


----------



## wuyeah

Brasso said:


> I picked up a 502d just to see what a cool tint, high cri light looked like. It's fine. I wish I had gotten the "c" version though. Warmer is better. I still think my H51fw is a better all around headlamp.


Hellow, besides the light tint, what makes H51Fw over H502d you got?


----------



## Ore

I like my 502d, but yesterday i discovered a little issue. I got a new set of Gp recyko batteries, but none of them worked in the 502. I found out that the button top is a little bit shorter compared to the enloops I was using before. I assume that the recyko gets caught in the reverse polarity protection. To be sure I added a flat piece of metal into the hole of the reverse polarity protection and tested the batteries again - it worked without any problems.
This spacer seems to work, but it's a bit unhandy to use it on every battery change, espacially if you are camping. Would a magnetic spacer work, or is there another solution to this issue (besides not using recyko batteries). Or am I completely wrong with my theory?


----------



## Diablo_331

Diablo_331 said:


> It seems my last post was lost so here it goes again.
> I received my 502c a few days ago. There is an obvious green hue around the outer edge but I can't really see it in real use so it doesn't bother me. I can also see some light leaking through around the switch boot so I guess this means that I got one of the less than water resistant duds. It's going back and I just may wait a few more months for a revision to be released. This is my first true flood light and I'm so excited that I'm not ready to give up on the 502c just yet..



Just a quick update from ZL customer service. They replied that the silcone boot is transparent with some black die. Part of the switch is thin to allow for flexibility and that some light will get through but it still should be water resistant. I guess the best way to find out is to dunk it in some water and see what happens. I'll report back after I do this.


----------



## bbb74

Ore said:


> I like my 502d, but yesterday i discovered a little issue. I got a new set of Gp recyko batteries, but none of them worked in the 502. I found out that the button top is a little bit shorter compared to the enloops I was using before. I assume that the recyko gets caught in the reverse polarity protection. To be sure I added a flat piece of metal into the hole of the reverse polarity protection and tested the batteries again - it worked without any problems.
> This spacer seems to work, but it's a bit unhandy to use it on every battery change, espacially if you are camping. Would a magnetic spacer work, or is there another solution to this issue (besides not using recyko batteries). Or am I completely wrong with my theory?



Hmm I had the same thing with an Imedion I popped in so I just threw in an Eneloop instead. But the imedion was quite used and maybe a little squashed in from drops etc.


----------



## Brasso

wuyeah said:


> Hellow, besides the light tint, what makes H51Fw over H502d you got?



While the 51f version doesn't have quite as much flood out to the edge of your vision as the 501/502 lights, it's still floody enough. What I think makes it better is that the f versions have a bit of a hot spot, if you can call it that, which gives more light out front. It throws better for lack of a better term.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Brasso said:


> I still think my H51fw is a better all around headlamp.



I agree with Brasso here. Emphasize "all around": if you could only have *one* headlamp, you would want one that could do both close-up and far away work, that had decent coverage side-to-side but also a decent bit of throw as well. 

That's your H51 (or for me, the H600w). And it's not the H502.

I *like* the H502, don't get me wrong. But it is definitely a special-purpose, special-use headlamp.

It's really, really good at doing one thing well: filling a 10-meter sphere around you with perfect, evenly distributed light.

And it does it from a tiny package, with a cheap battery, incredible run-times, and a terrific UI.

But it is *not* an "all around" headlight.


----------



## Bolster

lampeDépêche said:


> But it is definitely a special-purpose, special-use headlamp. It's really, really good at doing one thing well: filling a 10-meter sphere around you with perfect, evenly distributed light....But it is *not* an "all around" headlight.



Thank you! Lampe gets it: the H502 (as was the H501 and the H50) is a special-built headlamp for wide, even flood. 

Now maybe we can stop trying to force-fit it into the niche of does-it-all headlamp, at which it would certainly fail. For my purposes, I don't need an "all around light," I need a wide flood. 

To remove a 5/8 nut from a bolt, I can use the pliers in my multi-tool (the all-around tool) or a 5/8 box-end snap-on wrench (the specialty tool). Using pliers will bugger up the nut, will slip and scratch, and won't give much torque, but it's an all-around tool, so does that make it "better?" Hardly. The 5/8 box-end is precisely right tool _for that particular job_, max torque, minimum deformation of the nut. But the wrench would do a lousy job of trying to be a pliers. 

Some people have the "multitool" strategy, one-does-all-but-everything-a-compromise. Others have the "specialty" approach, lighting for specific tasks. 

You can't speak of the H51 or H51f or the H502 as "better" or "worse," except for a specific application you have in mind. For Brasso, the H51f is "better." For me, the H502c is "better." We are both right, for the separate needs we have.


----------



## psychbeat

bbb74 said:


> Its getting boring because people keep posting rubbish like that...
> 
> What do you think will have more lux: An old 5mm 10 lumen led with a 80 degree optic, or a 260 lumen h502 with a 120 degree optic? So do you really still think that a 80 degree optic is always going to have more lux than a 120 degree optic now? Think before you post.



Seriously?

WTF - obviously I meant using the same emitter behind both optics. 

Why don't u think before u post?


----------



## Brasso

I think you are right on. The 501/502 is a great up close task lamp. I look at it like this. The 502 for getting under the sink, reading, etc. The 51f for going outside.


----------



## peterharvey73

I finally understand the Zebralight headlight range now:

H31 CR123 powered XP-G, for 220 lumens @ distribution of 80 degree spill and 11 degree hotspot.
H51 AA powered XP-G, for 200 lumens @ distribution 80 degree spill and 11 degree hotspot.

H502 AA powered Phillips Luxeon emitter @ 4000K/5000K, or a Cree XM-L emitter @ 6300K tint with, and all three with a GITD Glow in the Dark reflector, will all deliver 142-260 lumens @ distribution of predominantly 120 degrees of spill, with essentially no hotspot.

H600 18650 powered XM-L, for 750 lumens @ distribution of 80 degree spill and 12 degree hotspot.

"F" frosted/flood diffusing lenses on XP-G/XM-L of H31/51/600, will give distribution of 90 degrees spill, with essentially no hotspot.

Decide on battery size, lumen volume output, and beam type ie distribution of how much flood/throw you want...


----------



## Brasso

So good so far, except for this:

"and all three with a frosted lens".

The 502 is a mule. It doesn't use a frosted lens.


----------



## peterharvey73

Brasso said:


> So good so far, except for this:
> 
> "and all three with a frosted lens".
> 
> The 502 is a mule. It doesn't use a frosted lens.



Oh, I'll edit that.
I don't have a 502, but on photo, it did look not quite frosted as usual - it was more transparent - say semi-frosted?


----------



## moozooh

It's not frosted at all; look again, it's absolutely clear. The reason for exceptional beam width without hotspot is the lack of reflector.


----------



## peterharvey73

moozooh said:


> It's not frosted at all; look again, it's absolutely clear. The reason for exceptional beam width without hotspot is the lack of reflector.



Ah, it actually uses a GITD Glow in the Dark reflector...


----------



## Brasso

No. It doesn't use a reflector of any kind. The GITD is just there where a reflector would normally be, but it doesn't serve as a reflector. The 502 is like a mule. It's basically a bare emitter with a dome. The lens is just there to protect the led. No frosting.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Brasso said:


> The 502 is like a mule.



Just as a student of the English language, I am curious: where did this sense of "mule" come from?

I have to assume that it did not originate in flashlight terminology, but in some older usage.

Is there some origin in car mechanics, or military jargon? 

Those who understand it right away--what images does it call to mind, or what comparisons?


----------



## bbb74

psychbeat said:


> Seriously?
> 
> WTF - obviously I meant using the same emitter behind both optics.
> 
> Why don't u think before u post?



Your post appeared to be either stating the obvious and repeating what YoSeKi had already just said in the previous post, or disagreeing with his post. Given it started with a "Umm-" and had a somewhat patronising tone it appeared you were disagreeing with him, and given that you said that 80 degrees would always outthrow 120 degrees - with no further qualifications - it appeared you were wrong. 

Keep in mind YoSeKi had already pointed out the large increase in power required to make a 120 degree beam throw as well as an 80 degree beam. He also discussed different die sizes playing a part. When I read your post it appeared you were saying that was all irrelevant and 80 degree would *always* outthrow 120 degrees.

As you have now clarified, that is not what you meant, so ok. It just read that way to me.


----------



## Bolster

lampeDépêche said:


> Just as a student of the English language, I am curious: where did this sense of "mule" come from?



I'm also confused about the usage of "mule" in this context, explain please?


----------



## psychbeat

bbb74 said:


> Your post appeared to be either stating the obvious and repeating what YoSeKi had already just said in the previous post, or disagreeing with his post. Given it started with a "Umm-" and had a somewhat patronising tone it appeared you were disagreeing with him, and given that you said that 80 degrees would always outthrow 120 degrees - with no further qualifications - it appeared you were wrong.
> 
> Keep in mind YoSeKi had already pointed out the large increase in power required to make a 120 degree beam throw as well as an 80 degree beam. He also discussed different die sizes playing a part. When I read your post it appeared you were saying that was all irrelevant and 80 degree would *always* outthrow 120 degrees.
> 
> As you have now clarified, that is not what you meant, so ok. It just read that way to me.



In most cases given the SAME emitter a narrower optic will have higher lux than a wider one.

Therefore, IF the H502 had an 80degree optic it would most likely have more lux than it does now with the 120.

As was said earlier- some of us feel this would be more desirable than the 120.
For others it would not as they like the extra coverage.

YoSeki has proposed that maybe more lux is not what those of us in the former group really want/need..


CPF is all about nit picking and sometimes armchair engineering sometimes real innovation.


there's already another thread about it anyways and theres nothing to argue about really as a well designed 80degree would
out throw the 120degree optic period - I should have said "tedious" rather than boring earlier.
blah blah blah

is there even an optic under the glass- and is the glass-or optic causing the green edge?
seems like it is as I have a number of XML lights and none have a green spill + it seems people with 
the Rebel models are seeing it too...


----------



## psychbeat

oh yeah and I too wonder where the "mule" term came from?

is it from the McGizmo light?
Id bet those dont have a green edge


----------



## peterharvey73

Brasso said:


> No. It doesn't use a reflector of any kind. The GITD is just there where a reflector would normally be, but it doesn't serve as a reflector. The 502 is like a mule. It's basically a bare emitter with a dome. The lens is just there to protect the led. No frosting.



I see - the Zebralight website calls it a GITD "reflector" in single inverted comas.
Sneaky. We have to really read the fine print.
With essentially no reflector, it's a pure flooder...


----------



## Esko

Brasso said:


> No. It doesn't use a reflector of any kind. The GITD is just there where a reflector would normally be, but it doesn't serve as a reflector. The 502 is like a mule. It's basically a bare emitter with a dome.



No. It DOES work as a reflector. A non-directional one. Otherwise the lumens from 120 to 180 degrees would be either lost or reflected uncontrollably (~30% of the total output of the led, provided that the calculations presented a few days ago are correct). 

It is very easy to verify. Turn the light on high and put your finger on the bezel so that it covers the led but leaves part of the reflector visible. You can see that the GITD reflector is shining bright whitish light. Those are the lumens emitted from the led in 120 to 180 degree angles, and reflected from the surface and (since it is transparent) the inner material of the GITD reflector and the surfaces below it. A white one would have been more efficient and wouldn't have any effect on the beam color, but this is what Zebralight decided to use (GITD green).

I wish that the discussion about the properties of 120 degree vs. 80 degree beam could be continued in the dedicated thread, too. Everything has been said in this thread already and many things have been said multiple times, but it has either been buried under other things, people have forgotten it or they haven't understood it. And with other people continuing to misunderstand others (not saying that it is intentional), same claims, explanations and misunderstandings seem to pop up again and again.


----------



## peterharvey73

To be technically correct, I guess it is a reflector, but a "diffuse" reflector - one which diffuses the light beam to produce incoherence.
Conventional reflectors have a mirror surface, to produce a more coherent light beam...


----------



## lampeDépêche

Bolster said:


> I'm also confused about the usage of "mule" in this context, explain please?



Thanks, Bolster--I should have checked Wikipedia myself.

But even faced with that array of possible disambiguations, there is still a little bit of work to do (i.e. it is not obvious that any one of them solves our mystery).

Our mystery is: what is the source of the use of "mule" to refer to a flashlight without any optics?

Surveying the choices on the Wiki page, I don't think it comes from the sense of "a type of shoe or slipper without a back". At any rate, the backs of my shoes and slippers are not that reflective (though they do have complex quasi-parabolic curves).

I don't think it comes from "a person who carries contraband", or "a person who transfers stolen money or ships stolen goods across country lines". LEDs are very precious to us, but not to most people. And you wouldn't really fool customs agents by hiding an LED on the top of a flashlight. ("They'll never think to look there!")

So my best guess is that it is related to a "development mule",
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_mule

"A development mule or a test mule in the automotive industry is a vehicle equipped with experimental or prototype components for testing."

If you are testing (e.g.) new fuel-injection systems, then you might assemble a very simple chassis without anything fancy on it--no passenger seats, no upholstery, etc.. You would build just enough of the car to allow you to test the parts that you want to test. Keeping it simple might also make it easier to switch between the different versions of the component you were focusing on (omitting the hood makes it easier to work on the engine).

So too, if you want to test a number of emitters, you might build a "stripped down" flashlight body without optics. You don't really care about developing the reflector and lens and so on right now, you want to build just enough of the light in order to test the emitter. And doing it this way may also make it easier to exchange a number of emitters.

So right now, this is my best hypothesis: the use of "mule" in flashoholic jargon comes from the world of auto development. And the sense is: a simplified platform that allows you to test one component, while not developing the others beyond the stage needed to make the target component work.

Perhaps this word is also used in the broader world of electronic hobbyists? I could imagine that having been the path of diffusion (cars > electronics > flashlights) if people employed, e.g. a simplified amplifier "mule" in order to test different tubes.

Can any readers who are more proficient in English tell me whether my guess is on the right track?


----------



## pjandyho

lampeDépêche said:


> Just as a student of the English language, I am curious: where did this sense of "mule" come from?
> 
> I have to assume that it did not originate in flashlight terminology, but in some older usage.
> 
> Is there some origin in car mechanics, or military jargon?
> 
> Those who understand it right away--what images does it call to mind, or what comparisons?


McGizmo came up with a reflectorless flashlight and call it the Mule. It became the norm in CPF whenever we talk about flashlight using only bare LED with neither optic nor reflector.


----------



## thaugen

We just had a new baby so my wife has been getting up every two hours to feed the little lady. My H502d has been left on L1 (2 lumens) for the past four nights in a row with an eneloop battery. This morning I checked the battery level and got 4 flashes! Way to go Zebralight!


----------



## moozooh

H502d. The Ultimate Babycare Flashlight.™


----------



## Bolster

Esko said:


> No. It DOES work as a reflector. A non-directional one. Otherwise the lumens from 120 to 180 degrees would be either lost or reflected uncontrollably (~30% of the total output of the led, provided that the calculations presented a few days ago are correct).



So what does this say about Spark's SD series, which uses a dark-anodized "reflector" on its light with 120-degree beam? Just wasting light.


----------



## Brasso

It may be reflecting some light, but that's not it's purpose.


----------



## Cataract

SCREW YOU GUYS! This thread cost me 70$ this very minute and now I have to wait for the mailman with my H502d. It better get here on time for my vacation or I'll hold you all responsible.


----------



## Diablo_331

Cataract said:


> SCREW YOU GUYS! This thread cost me 70$ this very minute and now I have to wait for the mailman with my H502d. It better get here on time for my vacation or I'll hold you all responsible.



I feel your pain! I have too many Zebralights because of all of you!


----------



## Diablo_331

Diablo_331 said:


> It seems my last post was lost so here it goes again.
> I received my 502c a few days ago. There is an obvious green hue around the outer edge but I can't really see it in real use so it doesn't bother me. I can also see some light leaking through around the switch boot so I guess this means that I got one of the less than water resistant duds. It's going back and I just may wait a few more months for a revision to be released. This is my first true flood light and I'm so excited that I'm not ready to give up on the 502c just yet..
> 
> Just a quick update from ZL customer service. They replied that the silcone boot is transparent with some black die. Part of the switch is thin to allow for flexibility and that some light will get through but it still should be water resistant. I guess the best way to find out is to dunk it in some water and see what happens. I'll report back after I do this.



I gave it the 'ol dunk test in my sink and moved it rapidly back and forth while under water. The light was on high during the little test. I was pretty nervous and really hoping that ZL customer service was right. 

The verdict... It turns out that they were! It still works! So I guess there is no need to be worried if you can see light coming through the edges of the switch boot. I'm just curious to see if anyone can't see any light around the boot on their H502? I wonder if their is any variation in thickness? Is it like this on all of them?


----------



## Bolster

Light seen thru switch boot on mine, and it survived a 15 minute dunk.


----------



## Ezeriel

mine leaks.. it's not the button that you need to worry about. Take the battery out and place your mouth over the led lens portion and blow, air easily passes through mine.

I ended up putting wax around the lens, and then superglue around the lens, and then sucking slightly on the battery tube. I then scraped off the excess wax and glue, and now it's waterproof, but I'm not happy about it.

mine also has metal shavings on the inside of the lens.. and I'm not happy about it

the button cover is thin.. very thin on the edges.. so I dripped superglue in the gap there as well... 

and this is a freakin $70 light!!

All the 80 degree vs 120 degree arguments seemed silly to me, but I can see where the 80 degree folks are coming from. 
For walking around there are much better options out there, but for doing up-close work, it's a very good light.

...and it makes a great camping lantern.


..but it should have never made it out of quality control. 

..just horrible.

...$70

...meh!


----------



## nakahoshi

I have 2 H502's and they both are perfect. I feel much better knowing why light was leaking through near the button. The run time has been very nice (as advertised) and I really love the 4 click battery gauge feature. No gimmicky external screen or led, just a hidden simple interface. 

-Bobby


----------



## Bolster

Ezeriel said:


> mine leaks.. it's not the button that you need to worry about. Take the battery out and place your mouth over the led lens portion and blow, air easily passes through mine.



Very disturbing to hear of sealment issues with the new ZL. ZL has had reputation-bruising problems in this area before, and should have learned a thing or two about waterproofing!!! I had high hopes they'd learned a lesson from the early H501 moisture ingress failures.

My SOP with any ZL is to give it a dunk as soon as it arrives. Haven't had a leaker yet but I'd return it immediately if I did. No way would I try to fix it myself with wax and glue.


----------



## Bolster

nakahoshi said:


> I really love the 4 click battery gauge feature.



Anyone notice the flash gauge drops quickly? One night I tested at 4 flashes and a very short time later it was 1 flash. I wonder if it drops to a single flash very rapidly at the end of cell life, rather than being a gauge of quarters, as I thought it might be.


----------



## RedForest UK

It's probably a voltage based readout and so with Ni-mh is likely to remain high before a sudden drop near the end of usable capacity.


----------



## nakahoshi

Bolster said:


> Anyone notice the flash gauge drops quickly? One night I tested at 4 flashes and a very short time later it was 1 flash. I wonder if it drops to a single flash very rapidly at the end of cell life, rather than being a gauge of quarters, as I thought it might be.



Mine has been pretty accurate using Enloops

-Bobby


----------



## Bolster

RedForest UK said:


> It's probably a voltage based readout and so with Ni-mh is likely to remain high before a sudden drop near the end of usable capacity.



OK that makes sense. Yes I was using Eneloops.


----------



## Ezeriel

Bolster said:


> No way would I try to fix it myself with wax and glue.



nothing ventured nothing gained


----------



## Bolster

Ezeriel said:


> nothing ventured nothing gained



All due respect for your admirable self-reliance and ingenuity, the "venture" in this case should have been a return trip to the manufacturer. This is how we communicate with them...return defectives.


----------



## MountainVoyageur

Do we have any sense of whether the waterproofing failures are a design issue (in which case it would pay to wait for Rev 02) or "just" a QA issue?


----------



## moozooh

A QA issue most certainly, as all lights are designed the same, but only some of them leak. Besides, there were recent reports of H600 leaking or having disturbing amounts water vapor sealed inside the head. ZL should look into this more closely—one more model sporting similar amount of defective units, and their reputation will be soiled beyond repair.


----------



## MountainVoyageur

moozooh said:


> *A QA issue most certainly, as all lights are designed the same, but only some of them leak.* Besides, there were recent reports of H600 leaking or having disturbing amounts water vapor sealed inside the head. ZL should look into this more closely—one more model sporting similar amount of defective units, and their reputation will be soiled beyond repair.



That could just mean that the design is marginal, in which case some units leak but even those that do not leak initially could be weak and prone to leaking later on. I'm not saying that it is a design issue -- just that the fact only some lights leak does not prove there is no design issue.


----------



## psychbeat

Thanks Ezekiel for the wax idea..
I'm nervous about my h501w and H51 leaking. 
Wax seems like non permanent preemptive solution. 
Also the suck test is brilliant. 
Thanks again!

The waterproofness issue is keeping me from buying a 502 as a gift. 
Gonna wait a bit I think and also for the W.


----------



## Bolster

I just don't see wax as the answer. Maybe that's my own short sightedness. Wax can shrink when it gets cool, expand and liquify when hot (and the head of a ZL can get very hot). While I prefer to return defectives, if you really want to "pre-fix" your ZL, investigate elastomeric caulk, or silicone adhesive. These remain somewhat flexible.

But why fix it yourself? Send it back to ZL and make a statement that they haven't got it right. They fixed the early H501 problem and other waterproofing problems with mfg changes. This seems to be their SOP: early shipments aren't reliably sealed, they get lots of returns and complaints, and then they fix the manufacturing process. Even tho it hasn't happened to me (yet) I'm furious that we are getting so many reports of ingress. Why does ZL have to keep making the same dumb mistake of insufficient seals. To me this says they are not learning from past mistakes, which borders on unforgivable.


----------



## tychoseven

You could also use silicone caulk, which I think would be more resilient than wax. I agree that ZL should fix this, however, as the longer they have problems the worse it's going to hurt them in the long term.


----------



## Cataract

Bolster said:


> [...]
> But why fix it yourself? Send it back to ZL and make a statement that they haven't got it right. They fixed the early H501 problem and other waterproofing problems with mfg changes. This seems to be their SOP: early shipments aren't reliably sealed, they get lots of returns and complaints, and then they fix the manufacturing process. Even tho it hasn't happened to me (yet) I'm furious that we are getting so many reports of ingress. Why does ZL have to keep making the same dumb mistake of insufficient seals. To me this says they are not learning from past mistakes, which borders on unforgivable.



+1 on returns. Manufacturers should be made aware of their shortcomings so they can make things right rather than ignoring them forever and not letting them have a second chance. I know the wait sucks, but that's how manufacturers learn about mistakes that made it past QC. I suspect it might take a little longer before Zebra corners the source of these problems (a machine, a sleeping QA agent, not enough machinists/too much production, maybe a bad QC procedure that came back from the dead somehow...) but I'm certain they are deploying some sort of effort to get this resolved. After all, you'd have to be stupid to lose customers just because you are too lazy to find a production problem that causes rightful returns. I'm sure they are looking for solutions, but that solution really isn't any of our business and in their place I wouldn't advertise I found the manufacturing problem just in case something like it happeneds again.

One thing I know for sure: we always hear about the problems but almost never about the good lights. Not that I don't want to hear about the problems I might encounter, I just mean that it should not be a strict measure of quality since we have no way of knowing the proportion of good/bad. 

Mine is in the mail. I'll double check it to be on the safe side, but I'm not losing faith yet. After all my SC51C, H51FW and H31r are just fine.


----------



## Ezeriel

oh.. peeps misunderstood me, I put wax on all the shiny bits, the lens, and anything else I didn't want the glue to stick to

I then dripped a slight amount of glue to fill the space/crack between the silver lens cap/ring and the body of the light, a very slight suck on the end of the tube (wrapped on a plastic bag as to not get silicone gel on my lips /yuck) and then I wiped all the wax off with the excess glue stuck to it

why didn't I just send it back? because I was comfortable sealing it myself, but I admit silicone gel would have been an excellent substitute for glue!!!

I'm more concerned about metal shavings causing a short, but hey, that's what warranties are for.


----------



## tychoseven

Ah, yes, that makes much more sense.


----------



## psychbeat

I'd surely send a defective or leaky one back if it was a model they still made


----------



## riccardo.dv

psychbeat said:


> I'd surely send a defective or leaky one back if it was a model they still made



Is what I did and I've been waiting for 3 weeks. Zebralight still don't tell me where my light is. Hope you won't have to rely with their customer service

Tapatalk @Xperia Arc S


----------



## markr6

Whew...what a thread! I appreciate everyone's feedback and beam shots. After much debating I finally decided to go with the H502. If I personally find it too floody during my backpacking trips, I look forward to getting a HL51 as I'm sure they'll both get used.


----------



## Brasso

My outdoor setup is an H51fw mounted up front and an SC51c mounted on the side. Also, most Quarks and Surefires can be mounted on the bill of a ballcap.


----------



## eh4

Ezeriel said:


> oh.. peeps misunderstood me, I put wax on all the shiny bits, the lens, and anything else I didn't want the glue to stick to
> 
> I then dripped a slight amount of glue to fill the space/crack between the silver lens cap/ring and the body of the light, a very slight suck on the end of the tube (wrapped on a plastic bag as to not get silicone gel on my lips /yuck) and then I wiped all the wax off with the excess glue stuck to it
> 
> why didn't I just send it back? because I was comfortable sealing it myself, but I admit silicone gel would have been an excellent substitute for glue!!!
> 
> I'm more concerned about metal shavings causing a short, but hey, that's what warranties are for.



Good work! Very sensible process. I also worked out the vaccum (suck) test as a safer test before going swimming with my H51Fc.
I plan on using silcone caulk if any seal issues ever come up.
Any word on when that Texas factory is coming online?
I definitely want an H502c.


----------



## Philonous

Okay, so my H502 arrived today. I'll start by addressing a couple of 'Hot Topics' that keep coming up:


*1) The Green Halo

*Yes, I have it. Don't know why, but it's a white-wall hunting issue. In use, if you look to the periphery of the beam on purpose, you can see it, but it's no more significant than, say, the reddish tint on the extremity of my SC600. In other words, not a real issue, unless you're very picky about that sort of thing. And if you're one of the people complaining about the green halo AND wasted light... well, without being unduly dismissive, all I can say is that one or other can be a problem, but not both. If it's wasted, you can't see it, and as the green halo is so peripheral, if you can see it then no light is being wasted.


*1) Wasted Light*

Which brings me to the next 'Hot Topic'. Based on all the talk here about "wasted light", I was kind of expecting a beam that would light up my bum, or something close. However, I'm pleased to say that the beam-proper (that is, the beam aside from escapy fringe bits you usually see on torches) is all within your natural field of vision. When walking around, I can still see the edges of the beam-proper, and that's exactly what I was hoping for. Anything within range is lit up, and I like it.


A couple of other points. This year I broke the headband for my SC51, basically by doing something I shouldn't have with it (nothing totally stupid, mind, just regularly stretching the rubber beyond its limits). So when I placed an order for the H501 and an SC51 for my girlfriend (SHE ASKED), I wanted to order a new headband too. Now I was going to order one, but there was no SC51 version of the headband available on Zebralight's store, and I didn't know if the sizes were different etc - so I stuck a comment in asking about it, explaining I was happy to pay for it (I knew it was my fault), but I didn't know what to order. Anyway, my item was shipped without contact from ZL, but... it came with said headband, free. And even though it's a little thing, it's seriously nice.


Which brings me to ZL's headband design, which has been updated since I last ordered. Now, thanks to a slit at the top of the rubber section, the headband can be rigged up with another, so you can have (say) a H502 along the rim, attached to an SC51 over the top, giving you flood and spot. Which is awesome!


Finally, my girlfriend's SC51 reminded me of how awesome the clip on that light is. Secure, sexy... and it forms a tripod so the light clip-stands. Brilliant design, which in my opinion doesn't get enough appreciation round these parts. The new clips (as on the H502) are fine, but they're just not as amazing as the SC51's.


----------



## carbonita

Might be an interesting experiment to try a short focal-length lens to assess throw change. There appears to be 0.2inch effective focal length plano-convex Fresnel lens at EdmundOptics, which if one is (quite) lucky, would be close enough to apply directly to the H502 (?).



Esko said:


> Yet the best Zebralight throwers (like SC600) use that almost useless light to create the hot spot. They are listed as having a 80 degree spill (the center beam) and 10 degree hot spot (the collimated beam from the rest of the led emission).
> 
> Aspherical throwers often lose most of the led output because they only use the center beam. The aspheric version of the new Crelant thrower has only a small intensity gain compared to the reflector version. Aspheric lens uses the center beam. The reflector version uses the side spill, creating an almost as bright (but also wider) hotspot as the aspheric version (+the reflectored one has also spill, unlike the aspheric one).
> 
> 
> 
> A plano convex lens was the original plan.
> 
> Well, I am not an illumination designer, and certainly not a reflector or lens designer. But lets ad the custom shape reflectors, TIR lenses (like in Preon P0), matte finishes, white surface instead of mirror (practically the same efficiency but less directional), orange peel, very small reflectors compared to the led size (compare it to DEFT), partly transparent parts (like the current GITD reflector) etc. And the combinations of the different solutions.


----------



## B0wz3r

Well, this has been quite the lively discussion since my last visit... 



Esko said:


> No. It DOES work as a reflector. A non-directional one.


This makes no sense. By definition, a reflector must be directional, as it changing the angle (direction of travel) of the beam.



Philonous said:


> Okay, so my H502 arrived today. I'll start by addressing a couple of 'Hot Topics' that keep coming up:
> Based on all the talk here about "wasted light", I was kind of expecting a beam that would light up my bum, or something close. However, I'm pleased to say that the beam-proper (that is, the beam aside from escapy fringe bits you usually see on torches) is all within your natural field of vision. When walking around, I can still see the edges of the beam-proper, and that's exactly what I was hoping for. Anything within range is lit up, and I like it.


The width of the human visual field from side to side has been repeatedly measured to be around 185º - 190º, so this makes perfect sense to me. 

Having a wider viewing area has repeatedly been shown to facilitate visual perception. (I'm too lazy to look up the references right now; don't bother asking, I probably won't. Get a copy of a good visual perception textbook, like _Visual Perception_ by my old professor at Cal Berkeley, Stephen Palmer.) Wider fields of view allow larger saccades across the visual field which facilitates sampling of the visual field, and allows better spatial performance. When the visual field is truncated, the eyes have to make smaller and more frequent saccades to gather the equivalent amount of spatial and color information. This decreases performance on spatial location tasks in terms of both accuracy and reaction time. 

From a purely objective and scientific perspective, a brighter, wider beam, is always going to be better than a dimmer narrower one (as long as the brightness is appropriate to the distance involved, but I'm ignoring that and assuming equal distances here) with respect to the issues I mention above, as well as one's ability to notice new things happening or entering the visual field, allowing attention to work more efficiently and quickly as a result. If you're someone who doesn't like the wider beam, then don't get it. But, the research I'm aware of on visual perception indicates unequivocally that literally all measures of visual performance that I'm aware of are increased / improved in some way by a wider beam, even if we're not specifically paying attention to the periphery of the visual field.


----------



## lampeDépêche

This makes no sense. By definition, a reflector must be directional, as it changing the angle (direction of travel) of the beam.


I understood the phrase "non-directional reflector" as meaning: a reflector whose surface does not direct all parallel incident light in the same uniform direction. Yeah, it changes the angle of the incident ray (as you point out, it is *reflecting*), but two parallel portions of the incident ray might be reflected in two non-parallel directions (because of intentional irregularities in the surface). Something like the mirror equivalent of frosted glass. 

And that seemed like an okay way to describe a matte white surface. Yeah, it reflects. But it also tends to disperse. If I send a bunch of light into it at 45 degrees, then some of it will come out at 45 degrees on the other side, but some will come out at other angles, lots of other angles, all over the room.

That's how I understood Esko.


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## moozooh

Does that issue really need endless nitpicking? Yes, the white GitD thing is a fairly typical diffuse reflector; yes it reflects and scatters some light from the LED in the general direction it's facing. It would have to be deep matte black not to. Yes, the light would be somewhat dimmer without even that kind of reflector. No, it does not reflect the light as a mirror surface (a specular reflector) would, due to irregularities, subsurface scattering and whatnot.

I would rather see some more tint comparisons, to be honest.


----------



## varuscelli

B0wz3r said:


> The width of the human visual field from side to side has been repeatedly measured to be around 185º - 190º, so this makes perfect sense to me.
> 
> Having a wider viewing area has repeatedly been shown to facilitate visual perception. (I'm too lazy to look up the references right now; don't bother asking, I probably won't. Get a copy of a good visual perception textbook, like _Visual Perception_ by my old professor at Cal Berkeley, Stephen Palmer.) Wider fields of view allow larger saccades across the visual field which facilitates sampling of the visual field, and allows better spatial performance. When the visual field is truncated, the eyes have to make smaller and more frequent saccades to gather the equivalent amount of spatial and color information. This decreases performance on spatial location tasks in terms of both accuracy and reaction time.
> 
> From a purely objective and scientific perspective, a brighter, wider beam, is always going to be better than a dimmer narrower one (as long as the brightness is appropriate to the distance involved, but I'm ignoring that and assuming equal distances here) with respect to the issues I mention above, as well as one's ability to notice new things happening or entering the visual field, allowing attention to work more efficiently and quickly as a result. If you're someone who doesn't like the wider beam, then don't get it. But, the research I'm aware of on visual perception indicates unequivocally that literally all measures of visual performance that I'm aware of are increased / improved in some way by a wider beam, even if we're not specifically paying attention to the periphery of the visual field.



Good post, B0wz3r. :thumbsup:

This could be good to repeat in the H502 with 80 degree beam thread, too.


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## Bolster

B0wz3r said:


> From a purely objective and scientific perspective, a brighter, wider beam, is always going to be better than a dimmer narrower one (as long as the brightness is appropriate to the distance involved, but I'm ignoring that and assuming equal distances here) with respect to the issues I mention above, as well as one's ability to notice new things happening or entering the visual field, allowing attention to work more efficiently and quickly as a result. *If you're someone who doesn't like the wider beam, then don't get it.* But, the research I'm aware of on visual perception indicates unequivocally that literally all measures of visual performance that I'm aware of are increased / improved in some way by a wider beam, even if we're not specifically paying attention to the periphery of the visual field.



Someone needed to say it! The H502 doesn't need "improvement" with a narrower beam IMHO. What the H502 _does_ need is a threaded bezel so people could modify the beam as they like.


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## Jacklight

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

A little off topic, but my H502 survived a trip through the washer and dryer in my shorts pocket. It looks and works fine. The tailcap was locked out at least a half turn. There was no moisture in the battery compartment or lens area, but again, it did go through the dryer. And the duraloop still is working, it's at 2 flashes, but can't say what it was before the washing. I'm happy it seems to be fine, I hope it didn't shorten it's life or do some unseen damage.


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## markr6

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

I just received my H502 today. It's my first Zebralight and I love the design and quality! Personally I would rather have a black anodize instead of the greenish brown color, but no big deal. Everything else is spectacular - really nice UI that I got used to right away without reading the instructions. I'll have to test this outside tonight to get a handle on the flood. It's smooth and bright inside, perfect for most tasks but I was hoping to use it for hiking as well. I can carry one of my Fenix lights for that but since I always use hiking poles, I won't have a free hand. I'm really anxious to test it outside tonight!


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## Philonous

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Recently had some fun using ZL's funky new headband design - I was able to put my floddy H502 up front on my forehead, with my SC51 on top providing spot. Simply excellent, and very easy to do. For those who feel torn between the appeal of pure flood and the desire for some focus, this kind of setup really does tick all the boxes, and is very comfortable.


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## icedmocha

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Got my light in....hopefully it works well for trail running.


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## markr6

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

WAYYY to floody for my tasks unfortunately. I have an H51 on the way so I'll be selling the H502. What a fantastic light though! I wish it worked out.


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## Cataract

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*

Mine just shipped yesterday and I already dreamt I received it. 

Actually, in my dream, I had 2 H502d and 1 H600W. the 502's were golden, had the diameter of a pencil and there was a reflector that could be installed/removed along with a diffusing material made of plastic (like every beam profiles in 1!!!) The H600 could run on 1XAA by removing an extension and the AA just held by spring pressure since the tube is too wide. I should stop eating so late.


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## Diablo_331

Philonous said:


> Recently had some fun using ZL's funky new headband design - I was able to put my floddy H502 up front on my forehead, with my SC51 on top providing spot. Simply excellent, and very easy to do. For those who feel torn between the appeal of pure flood and the desire for some focus, this kind of setup really does tick all the boxes, and is very comfortable.



Could you please post a photo or two? I'm not picking up what you're putting down.


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## Philonous

Diablo_331 said:


> Could you please post a photo or two? I'm not picking up what you're putting down.




I will do so a little later. Got some work to do right now (essay deadlines, ugh), but I will definitely put some pics up by tomorrow at the latest.


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## Philonous

Okay, so I decided to procrastinate and take a few pics. Oh, and by the way, WARNING, PIC-HEAVY (ish)


This first is to illustrate what I am talking about. The latest ZL headbands come with a small slit at the top. I have no idea if this is what it's supposed to be used for, but it seems very likely. I didn't spend much time fiddling with the straps because I wanted to do this as quickly as possible, but you should get the picture (LITERALLY ZOMG). The H502 is on my forehead, and the SC51 strap is looped through the slit and around the back of the H502 strap:









Then, for the purposes of illustrating the difference, here are some very rough and ready shots (taken with my phone) of the difference it makes to the beam. Also, please do not mock my tiny kitchen/apartment. I have to cook there.


H502 by itself:









SC51 by itself:









H502 and SC51 on at the same time:









Hopefully that helps!


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## Swede74

*Re: ZebraLight H502 X-ML*



Cataract said:


> Mine just shipped yesterday and I already dreamt I received it. Actually, in my dream, I had 2 H502d and 1 H600W. the 502's were golden, had the diameter of a pencil and there was a reflector that could be installed/removed along with a diffusing material made of plastic (like every beam profiles in 1!!!) The H600 could run on 1XAA by removing an extension and the AA just held by spring pressure since the tube is too wide. I should stop eating so late.


 Good to hear that I'm not the only one having flashlight dreams! Unfortunately, when I wake up, I can't remember them much longer than a single alkaline AA can deliver enough current to fully enjoy a Zebralight on high :laughing:. Others have better memory though, and I'd love to hear about your dreams. I think the topic deserves a dedicated thread in the Café. If no one else creates one I might, in Cataract's honor of course.


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## Mr Floppy

Philonous said:


> Hopefully that helps!



That looks ... excellent! It almost makes me want to consider the SC51 rather than the HL51


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## Philonous

It's a touch stressed there because I didn't bother to set the straps up right (my SC51, combined with a TwoFish, already serves as my bike light, so keeping it that way all the time isn't an option), but if you set it up right, and run the SC51's strap doubled-up through the rubber holder (makes it more stable), it really is ace. I mean, they're both so light that the extra specialisation is totally worth any weight penalty. Plus, you get 460 lumens total, with totally respectable 200+ lumen specialised outputs.


To be honest, I can't figure why they're not selling this harder. And if it's because it wasn't their intention, well... it ought to be!


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## B0wz3r

Philonous said:


> Okay, so I decided to procrastinate and take a few pics. Oh, and by the way, WARNING, PIC-HEAVY (ish)
> 
> 
> This first is to illustrate what I am talking about. The latest ZL headbands come with a small slit at the top. I have no idea if this is what it's supposed to be used for, but it seems very likely. I didn't spend much time fiddling with the straps because I wanted to do this as quickly as possible, but you should get the picture (LITERALLY ZOMG). The H502 is on my forehead, and the SC51 strap is looped through the slit and around the back of the H502 strap:


That's pretty much exactly how I have my bike helmet set up. I strapped one of my extra ZL brackets on under the visor and have a two fish lock block on top for a regular flashlight. I use my H51w on the front, and my Jet III Pro ST on the top. The ST gives me a nice throwy beam for getting light down range, and the H51w gives me good up close flood light. 

Here's a pic of it.






I generally only use the ZL when I'm off the bike. I have a neutral QAA on another lock block on my handlebars for light directly in front of my bike.


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## psychbeat

Same general idea on my helmet light. 
Just integrated into one box. 












With a van quad xpg on the bars of course 

I used to use an H51 coupled with one of my p60 hosts zip tied to my visor. 

Was a bit fiddly. 

The 18650 w version of the h502 might be too hard to pass up for me.. Depending on the tint bin used.


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## lampeDépêche

nice full-face, psychbeat!

Do you ride that on the road, as well?


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## psychbeat

^^naw  I've got a skid lid for riding around the city. 

Then I just use my h501w on blink as a necklace (mines on an adjustable shock cord) facing to the rear. 
And one of my p60 hosts on the bars.


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## Beacon of Light

Not getting how the SC51 is strapped in. I didn't know the SC series flashlights even came with a headlamp type holder. How is the strap held in place going longitudinally from the front of your head to the back? What is holding it in place as it is not wrapped under your chin. Also what is this slit you are referring to?


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## varuscelli

Beacon of Light, to elaborate a bit on the post by Philonous, sometime back in 2011 ZebraLight started issuing headband lamp holders with a slit that many of us speculate was for use with a top headband support. Although ZL has never released an actual top support to go along with this (as far as I know), the slit is still there and a few folks have rigged top supports for themselves. 

When Philonous said, "The latest ZL headbands come with a small slit at the top," what he meant was that the headband lamp holders have a small slit at the top. Sorry, Philonous -- just clarifying that part. 

Here are a couple of pics clearly showing the ZL holders with slits:











Referring back to the photo that Philonous posted: Using that slit, it's easy enough to loop an extra length of headband material (like an extra ZL headband which often comes as part of the headlamp purchase) through the slit and around the part of the headband that's at the back of the head, forming a top support. It's also easy to slip an extra ZL holder of the right size onto the rigged up top support and slide in whatever flashlight will fit (ZL or other, depending on what you've got that has the right approximate diameter and small size...but since the ZL holders come in several sizes, they can accommodate a pretty good range of small flashlight diameters, so you'd pick a holder of the right size to accommodate the flashlight you want to use). I don't have any pics of that the last part I described, but maybe Philonous will post a pic or two showing the top and back in a little more detail.


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## Philonous

Sorry, been away for a few days. Yes, varuscelli has it pretty much covered. I'll try and post some pictures in the next few days, but all I have is my camera phone, so it's hard to take a pic of myself (and the ever-patient gf is away at the moment).


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## JayHawk

I'd like to give some quick, use specific, observations regarding my new 502d. I was hesitant to get another Zebralight since I don't use my SC600 due to the sickly green light it produces but after using the 502d for the past week, I couldn't be more impressed.

Knowing that I'd be spending several days wiring low voltage interfaces in areas with very low light, I ordered the 502d just in time to start the project. Compared to the cool white headlamps I'd used previously, conductor colors were easy to distinguish and there was little annoying glare reflecting from the shiny shields on the interfaces. The flood beam made perfect head positioning unnecessary, which greatly reduced fatigue. The creamy white color is easy on the eyes, no headaches! All of the work was done with the 40 L setting and the 502d lasted a whole shift on 1 freshly charged Eneloop.

After a day I did find the strap slightly irritating and ended up clipping the light to the brim of a ball cap and used it this way for the next 4 days.

While the 502d would not be my choice for running or biking etc, I could tell from the first minute of use that I'd chosen the perfect tool for this particular need. I really like the daylight tint and hopefully it will find it's way into other Zebralight products as well.


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## climberkid

Finally, after being soooo hesitant about it for over a month, I ordered the H502D from zebralight. I'll see how it helps me on the aircraft for running my checklists and while in flight. Will post my results here I guess. 


-Alex


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## moozooh

I've received my 502d recently as well, and it's far brighter than I expected. I can see the next couple meters very clearly even on the 40 lm setting, and 72 is plenty enough for most of my needs. I have SC600 for throw anyway. Huge viewing angle is definitely an asset to this light!


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## moozooh

EDIT: Oops, accidental doublepost. >_>


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## sadboy

Is the H502d just available at ZebraLight's website? I recently placed an order, and the cheap *** in me is wondering if I bought it at the lowest price possible.

I was stoked when I found out the H502d fit my criteria for a new light. It's my first light from ZebraLight. Not only is the H502d made by a company that I'm highly interested in, it has all the key characteristics of a light I want (and not just some).


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## Beacon of Light

So what are the numbers for the daylight compared to the cool white, neutral and then warm white on the color spectrum? Is daylight closer to cool white or closer to neutral? I have tried warm and neutral lights before and I cant stand the sickly yellow 1970's incandescent tint. It sort of depresses me thinking back to that time when a flashlight took 2 D cell batteries and was a monstrocity. LED lights were a big innovation with whiter light and longer lasting bulbs and more efficient. I haven't looked back to the 1970s and don't care to with my flashlights.


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## mr_magicfingers

Hi all,

I have a question that I hope you might be able to help with. I work on film sets and we're doing a couple of months of night shoots, so my working 'day' is in the dark, and we're outdoors on a runway. So far I've been using a petzl myolite as my headtorch and a 4sevens QuarkAA as my throw/detail light. 

Last night my quark stopped working. I'm going to send it back but in the meantime it's given me pause to think about getting a new light or headtorch. Most of what I'm using it for is hunting around the cameras getting lens serial numbers, reel numbers etc, and as additional light to type things up on my laptop. Would a flood beam like the 502 be sufficient for seeing detail in the close up environment like this and would I notice the lack of hotspot for getting details or is it bright enough in it's own. Ultimately I'll have the quark back for pointing into awkward, hard to reach places, but I'm thinking a decent headtorch would replace 90% of what I currently use the quark for while remaining hands free.

Also, does the flood beam tend to be blinding to people working around you, as there are usually 2-3 other people working on the camera or rig at the time.

The other lights I looked at are the H51w and H51fw, would either of these be a better solution do you think?

Thanks for your help.


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## Bolster

Magicfingers: 

Generally a floody headlamp is considered superior for work out to a yard (or a couple of yards) away as it gives you good peripheral vision, and no hotspot that causes your iris to shut down unduly. A hotspot means you either have to wait for your iris to open back up before you can see normally in low ambient light, or you must use another bright light to compensate. If you must go from seeing lit items close-up and then seeing in ambient darkness, then a hotspot is actively working against you. You'd want a light that didn't ratchet down your iris so much. A hotspot is like a caffein hit...you can see great while it's on an object but then you're blind when it's gone and need more to continue. Not so with a soft floody light; the eye adapts quickly between lit and unlit with a soft flood. 

A flood also means you don't have to swivel your head around to get the bright part of the beam into position. Given the tasks you state, it sounds like a floody headlamp would be appropriate.

Whether your flood will blind others depends on the level you have it at, and where the others are looking at your face a lot. On the lower mid and lower levels, I've not had complaints from co-workers, or seen them look away, and sometimes, co-workers "borrow" the wide beam themselves (even while it's still on my head, they can see their work better). 

If you are using your headlamp for a lot of walking or fast movement at night, you might find the H51fw best as it throws a bit farther--it's more the favorite of the night hikers and trailrunners. However if your work is primarily examining numbers and your laptop, then an H502 on a low setting should be ideal. It's a favorite of workers who use their hands. I do a lot of contracting work and the H502 is the best I've owned for handwork. Also works great for late night computer sessions, providing just enough light to see the keyboard.


----------



## Beacon of Light

yeah I do know about the slit now that I see what you are talking about. I noticed that on my new H502s. 

My brain is still struggling to visualize where the top strap connects to in the back? I am assuming the strap is basically holding on in the front by the thin rubber strip, which it would seem over time would result in the strip breaking if a bit of stress was continuously pulling on that thin piece of rubber. Where does the band connect to in the back?

Pictures would be great to display this as I cannot visualize this at all. As well as not visualizing where the top band connects to the horizontal H502 holder or strap in back, I cannot visualize how 2 closed looped bands can cross each other. Seems like a magic trick where the magician is holding 2 round metal hoops and with a razzamatazz he can make them link together even though they are completely solid rings with no openings. That is my visualization of the Zebralight straps. Seems like magic.



varuscelli said:


> Beacon of Light, to elaborate a bit on the post by Philonous, sometime back in 2011 ZebraLight started issuing headband lamp holders with a slit that many of us speculate was for use with a top headband support. Although ZL has never released an actual top support to go along with this (as far as I know), the slit is still there and a few folks have rigged top supports for themselves.
> 
> When Philonous said, "The latest ZL headbands come with a small slit at the top," what he meant was that the headband lamp holders have a small slit at the top. Sorry, Philonous -- just clarifying that part.
> 
> Here are a couple of pics clearly showing the ZL holders with slits:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Referring back to the photo that Philonous posted: Using that slit, it's easy enough to loop an extra length of headband material (like an extra ZL headband which often comes as part of the headlamp purchase) through the slit and around the part of the headband that's at the back of the head, forming a top support. It's also easy to slip an extra ZL holder of the right size onto the rigged up top support and slide in whatever flashlight will fit (ZL or other, depending on what you've got that has the right approximate diameter and small size...but since the ZL holders come in several sizes, they can accommodate a pretty good range of small flashlight diameters, so you'd pick a holder of the right size to accommodate the flashlight you want to use). I don't have any pics of that the last part I described, but maybe Philonous will post a pic or two showing the top and back in a little more detail.


----------



## moozooh

Beacon of Light said:


> So what are the numbers for the daylight compared to the cool white, neutral and then warm white on the color spectrum? Is daylight closer to cool white or closer to neutral? I have tried warm and neutral lights before and I cant stand the sickly yellow 1970's incandescent tint. It sort of depresses me thinking back to that time when a flashlight took 2 D cell batteries and was a monstrocity. LED lights were a big innovation with whiter light and longer lasting bulbs and more efficient. I haven't looked back to the 1970s and don't care to with my flashlights.


I've no idea what do _you_ mean by neutral, but for _me_ the d version's tint is the very definition of neutral. There isn't a single hint of blue, purple, or green; white looks white with a slight nudge towards ivory at higher brightness levels. I'll try making a white wall beamshot with manual white balance tonight, and probably some comparison shots with a couple other lights I have.


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## Beacon of Light

I actually got the numbers I was looking for on Zebralight's product comparison. 

6300k - Cool White XP-G and XM-L
6000k - Cool White XP-E (H501)
5000k - Daylight (H502D)
4200k - Warm White XP-E, XP-G and XM-L
4000k - High CRI XP-E Rebel

I'm not sure but I would assume the H30w I have is the same as the readings from the list at 4200k. That said I cannot stand using my H30w for any length of time (as well as a H31w I returned to Going Gear last year for the cool white version) as it is a sickly yellow casting on everything. Not sure the daylight at 5000k which is only 800k more than the warm white I cannot stand would be enough of a difference to make me like it.



moozooh said:


> I've no idea what do _you_ mean by neutral, but for _me_ the d version's tint is the very definition of neutral. There isn't a single hint of blue, purple, or green; white looks white with a slight nudge towards ivory at higher brightness levels. I'll try making a white wall beamshot with manual white balance tonight, and probably some comparison shots with a couple other lights I have.


----------



## sadboy

Beacon of Light said:


> I actually got the numbers I was looking for on Zebralight's product comparison.
> 
> 6300k - Cool White XP-G and XM-L
> 6000k - Cool White XP-E (H501)
> 5000k - Daylight (H502D)
> 4200k - Warm White XP-E, XP-G and XM-L
> 4000k - High CRI XP-E Rebel
> 
> I'm not sure but I would assume the H30w I have is the same as the readings from the list at 4200k. That said I cannot stand using my H30w for any length of time (as well as a H31w I returned to Going Gear last year for the cool white version) as it is a sickly yellow casting on everything. Not sure the daylight at 5000k which is only 800k more than the warm white I cannot stand would be enough of a difference to make me like it.


Isn't 4200K neutral, instead of warm?


----------



## MichaelW

Yes.
Hopefully Zebralight will change their nomenclature to 'n' instead of 'w'.
Real warm-white is circa 3000K.


----------



## Beacon of Light

So if Zebralight's "W" designation is in reality a "neutral white" I would definitely not like a true "warm white" when the H30 I own is the ugliest tinted beam and the only reason I bought it is it was on clearance from Zebralight for $49. It is definitely not my "Go-to" headlamp, but I will use it if it is the closest one around when I need it. I much prefer any of the cool white models of theirs I own H50/H50B/H31/H502x2 and now just ordered H51 and H51F. Wish the H501 was still for sale. I may have to score one used if I can even find one.

So my question remains: Is the Daylight model closer to the cool white or the "w" (Neutral white)?


----------



## moozooh

moozooh said:


> I'll try making a white wall beamshot with manual white balance tonight, and probably some comparison shots with a couple other lights I have.


So I have, but it turns out my camera doesn't give me absolute control over the combination of exposure, shutter speed, and aperture settings; iow. I can't set all of them manually in the same camera preset. That didn't let me take faithful brightness shots, but I did manage to take a tint comparison shot with white balance set to match what my eyes could see as closely as possible—which, mind you, was still far from perfect match. The camera is Canon PowerShot G9, by the way.

From left to right: noname *Chinese 16x LED headlamp* with 8 LEDs active; *H502d*; cheapo *Camelion 7x LED* 2x D cell light; *SC600* with XM-L U2. The wall is very very light grey, almost pure white.





(Click the image for a larger version.)

Unfortunately I gifted my Thrunite Ti to my girlfriend, which is a shame because 502d's tint is closer to it than to anything else on the image. IIRC the Ti has XP-E 5700K inside. SC600 is 6300K or so, the other two on this photo are 7000K+. I don't have anything warm-tinted/incan in the household anymore... well, at least something I could use for such a comparison. Anyway, this tint is the future. The imperfect color balance on the camera and the wall's inherent muddiness made the beam appear a tad greenish, but actually it's very clean creamy white going into ivory. If H502d needs anything it's more brightness per watt, everything else about it is, to put it simply, _perfect_.

By the way, to address the earlier discussion about the green fringe on vanilla 502: it's not there on the 502d. None at all! Keep in mind that it might have something to do with XM-L being around three times larger than the Rebel used here and thus interacting with the GitD reflector differently with its sidespill.


----------



## tickled

Beacon of Light said:


> So what are the numbers for the daylight compared to the cool white, neutral and then warm white on the color spectrum? Is daylight closer to cool white or closer to neutral? I have tried warm and neutral lights before and I cant stand the sickly yellow 1970's incandescent tint. It sort of depresses me thinking back to that time when a flashlight took 2 D cell batteries and was a monstrocity. LED lights were a big innovation with whiter light and longer lasting bulbs and more efficient. I haven't looked back to the 1970s and don't care to with my flashlights.


 I only have the Xeno E03 as a point of reference and its 5000K XM-L (different LED, I know) gives a slightly yellow cast when reading off white paper. I prefer cooler tints as well and I find the 5000K CCT relatively unoffensive compared to some of the warmer ones I have seen. As a cool fan, 5000K would probably be the lowest I would go.


----------



## Beacon of Light

moozooh, thanks for the beamshots. You mention the H502D is closest in tint to the Thunite Ti, and I have 7 of these little guys. Love the .04 moon mode and the tint is perfect. I may have to consider a H502D or whatever they come out with in the 5000k Daylight tint. On your picture even if the camera white balance isn't exact, I think I prefer the SC600 with the H502D in second. I never used to mind the angry blue tints of the cheapo LED lights but after having quality lights they just seem like cheap toys with that blue / violet tint.


----------



## Philonous

Beacon of Light said:


> yeah I do know about the slit now that I see what you are talking about. I noticed that on my new H502s.
> 
> My brain is still struggling to visualize where the top strap connects to in the back? I am assuming the strap is basically holding on in the front by the thin rubber strip, which it would seem over time would result in the strip breaking if a bit of stress was continuously pulling on that thin piece of rubber. Where does the band connect to in the back?
> 
> Pictures would be great to display this as I cannot visualize this at all. As well as not visualizing where the top band connects to the horizontal H502 holder or strap in back, I cannot visualize how 2 closed looped bands can cross each other. Seems like a magic trick where the magician is holding 2 round metal hoops and with a razzamatazz he can make them link together even though they are completely solid rings with no openings. That is my visualization of the Zebralight straps. Seems like magic.




Sorry, I just haven't been able to take any decent pictures yet. Too busy during the day, too poor a camera to do so at night. But let me explain a couple of things.


First of all, the ZL headbands aren't "closed" loops. If you look closely at the two plastic 'buckles' on the band, you'll notice then end of the strap looped into one of them. This can be taken out of the buckle, so that the headband is no longer a closed loop and can be looped around (or through) something else. So you undo headband B, and pass it through the slit on headband A. Then at the back, you simply loop headband B around headband A, and then reconnect it.


Secondly, it does look strained in that pic, but as I say, it was very tight there because I didn't take the time to set it up properly. There'd probably still be some strain, but really, that rubber is pretty tough. You wouldn't believe what I did to my last holder (really!), and it took months to break.


Anyway, I will try and post a pic tomorrow.


----------



## mr_magicfingers

Bolster, thanks very much for that, does sound like a the 502 would be best for me, now to consider the temp options, wish they'd hurry up with the warm option.

Cheers.


----------



## mr_magicfingers

Has anyone seen both the standard and the D version together? How much drop in brightness do you see in the real world? Considering getting the D version rather than wait for the W version, just wondering how much real world difference the brightness drop would make from the standard which would appear, from the figures, to be a third brighter, though I'm sure our eyes wouldn't see it as that much.

Any ideas on how bright the warm version would be?


----------



## moozooh

mr_magicfingers said:


> Considering getting the D version rather than wait for the W version, just wondering how much real world difference the brightness drop would make from the standard which would appear, from the figures, to be a third brighter, though I'm sure our eyes wouldn't see it as that much.
> 
> Any ideas on how bright the warm version would be?


See this post. It also shows that the 5000K Rebel is not a "third" less bright, but actually quite comparable to the XM-L on medium settings. The actual brightness difference kicks in on over-100 lm modes, but they aren't too useful aside from the wow effect and the very occasional need to light up a large room or something. Personally, I found the 72 lm mode to be the extent of my needs from a headlight, the rest I have SC600 for.


----------



## Mikellen

I just ordered the H502. I hope I get a white tinted one without too much coolness in the tint.


----------



## riccardo.dv

I finally had my light back from zebralight. This one seems to be waterproof  now is time to enjoy it

Tapatalk @Xperia Arc S


----------



## varuscelli

riccardo.dv said:


> I finally had my light back from zebralight. This one seems to be waterproof  now is time to enjoy it
> 
> Tapatalk @Xperia Arc S



I have to admit, that was a LONG wait. What did it take from Europe to China and back -- roughly six weeks for replacement?


----------



## riccardo.dv

varuscelli said:


> I have to admit, that was a LONG wait. What did it take from Europe to China and back -- roughly six weeks for replacement?



yes, almost 6 weeks. At least i finally have a new and fully functionally h50d  btw I've been disappointed with their customer service, it always took them a lot to reply to emails


----------



## Ezeriel

riccardo.dv said:


> yes, almost 6 weeks. At least i finally have a new and fully functionally h50d  btw I've been disappointed with their customer service, it always took them a lot to reply to emails



6 weeks... and people called me out for using superglue to seal mine...


----------



## mr_magicfingers

Thanks, useful information. Looks likes the D version would be worth getting rather than waiting for the warm. Now to save pennies.


----------



## Bolster

Ezeriel said:


> 6 weeks... and people called me out for using superglue to seal mine...



Still smarting about that...?

Returning to the mfg is essentially holding their feet to the fire. Which if you ask me, is what needs to be done.


----------



## Mr Floppy

Ezeriel said:


> 6 weeks... and people called me out for using superglue to seal mine...



I'm still waiting for one and it's been two weeks. Mind you, it seems stuck at Shanghai international since the 3rd. I should have paid more for shipping.


----------



## nullface

I have a problem with my H502d. I't wont run on high for more than a few seconds then, then it switches through alle three levels on it's own and stops either on medium or low.

Am I retadede or do I have a rogue light?


----------



## mr_magicfingers

Well my 502(D) arrived today and I've been staying on my night shift hours overnight while at home. Kept the lights turned off and been using it all night, what a fantastic little light it is. I've never had a flood light before and it's a real revelation. I also love the way it feels like pure quality when you first take it out of the box, really well machined. 

I'm having a bit of an issue with figuring out the different levels and modes but I'm sure that's just a case of practice, but what I really want to be able to do is just turn it on easily to the middle setting without it being on high.


----------



## Ezeriel

when it's off

1 quick click for high
double click for medium
3 quick clicks for low

or 

hold the button down and it will cycle low, medium, high


once on a level (low med hi) double click many times (6) and eventually you will start toggling between your second level options... 

like.. when on high, Level-1 is 260 lumens (can't change that) but if you double click, one time, you can switch back and forth to Level-2

keep switching back and forth from level-1 to 2 and after 6 or so times you will start to toggle between level-2's different settings

level-2 can be 100 lumens, 160 lumens(from memory, could be wrong here), and a strobe... set it on the level you want and 1 quick click to turn the light off

from now on, when you switch to (high) level-2, it will be at whatever you set it to


level-2 has multiple brightness levels at each level (hi med low), and once set the light will remember that setting until you change it 






....hope that made sense


----------



## tony613

mr_magicfingers said:


> but what I really want to be able to do is just turn it on easily to the middle setting without it being on high.



Hey mr_magicfingers,

Apologies if you already know this but just in case...

Very simply, click and hold the button down for a little more than one second. That's it. Release the button and the light will stay in the middle mode.


Clicking and holding the button down will turn the light on in low, then advance to medium, then advance to high, then return to low, medium, high, etc. Remember that you can select the brightness levels for low, medium, and high and the light will save your choice. 

Sorry if this was already obvious to you. If so, it may help a newcomer somewhere down the road.


----------



## ix37

I've been considering the h502c for use around a campsite. I saw it mentioned that because the light is so floody, most anyone looking at your face will have direct exposure to the light. In order not to be uncomfortable for them, I assume the light must be kept fairly dim. Has anyone experienced this? If so, could you comment on how useable the light was given not wanting to discomfort those around you?


----------



## wuyeah

We are about to reach 3/4 of 2012. Where is H502w!? Still no output date update? WTF....
Why not just correct it to 2013 and put outta this misery.


----------



## varuscelli

wuyeah said:


> We are about to reach 3/4 of 2012. Where is H502w!? Still no output date update? WTF....
> Why not just correct it to 2013 and put outta this misery.



That's the one I've been waiting for, too. I bought the H502 as a gift for someone else, but tested it somewhat extensively before sending it along to the recipient. I truly wanted to make sure it was not misbehaving in any way before making a gift of it (did NOT want to leave a bad impression on the recipient, who is also a client of mine). But yeah...where is the H502w?

Guesses at this point might include getting the emitters they want...and perhaps the addressing of things like waterproofing, which seems to have been a problem with random copies of other H502 versions. I dunno.


----------



## mr_magicfingers

Thanks for the replies above about the switching options, very useful. Been using it constantly for the past couple of nights and will write a more detailed opinion when I have a bit of time. So far, it's very impressive, ideal for my applications and lots of colleagues have been asking where to get one from.


----------



## moozooh

H502w has been dropped from the model list. It also says all 'w' XM-L models are out of stock. This may have been the reason for the long wait; must be a supply problem.


----------



## Outdoorsman5

moozooh said:


> H502w has been dropped from the model list. It also says all 'w' XM-L models are out of stock. This may have been the reason for the long wait; must be a supply problem.



Yeah, but what's a little alarming is that the H502w has been completely removed from the list of future lights! That's gotta be a mistake. They'd surely make the "w" when the LED's become available....too many of us want one. I wonder what's going on with the neutral tint XML's.


----------



## moozooh

I guess they decided to put it "outta this misery" as suggested above, as the lack of supply seems to be severe enough to warrant that. The main site doesn't reflect that though—while the Gdocs table says stuff like SC600w is out of stock as well, it's still in-stock on the site. Might be that the "out of stock" notice in the table refers to (temporary) cessation of production, not actually depleting the entire stock. Or maybe it refers specifically to the needed LEDs being out of stock. Either way it'd be nice if one of ZebraLight representatives cleared this up.

With regards to H502w, thankfully we still have the excellent H502d in its stead. Aside from the drop on H1, its brightness is comparable with what was expected to be 4200 K XM-L's performance, and superior color rendition is worth going for it. I wish Cree made LEDs identical to this Rebel in terms of tint and color rendition, but with XLamp's amazing power efficiency.


----------



## Bolster

moozooh said:


> With regards to H502w, thankfully we still have the excellent H502d in its stead.



The 'd'? I'd say the 'c'. The tint is almost indistinguishable between the H501w and the H502c, see photos I posted comparing the two in this thread. I suspect the difference in lumens between the H502c and the vaporware H502w would likely have been close to unnoticeable in use.

Yes, my next purchase would have been an H502w, but no tears here, the H502c is close enough.


----------



## psychbeat

Hmmm... And the hiCRI XMLs are just coming out now...i thought maybe that was what they were waiting for?


----------



## Mr Floppy

psychbeat said:


> Hmmm... And the hiCRI XMLs are just coming out now...i thought maybe that was what they were waiting for?



I'd hope so. Maybe the reported tint shifts at lower levels of the warm XML are not quite up to their standards?


----------



## bbb74

The 502w is back in the spreadsheet.


----------



## climberkid

Mr Floppy said:


> I'd hope so. Maybe the reported tint shifts at lower levels of the warm XML are not quite up to their standards?



Their standards? That's funny. Must not work at all!

I kid, I kid. I like my ZLs quite a bit.


-Alex


----------



## Outdoorsman5

Here's the response I got from Zebralight.....


User/DateMessage*Customer*
8/23/2012 1:29:44 PMI noticed that the H502w has been removed from your list of future lights. Are you still planning on making this light? If so, when do you think it will be available? If not, why?
Thank You,
Mark




*Staff (Administrator)*
8/23/2012 3:27:09 PMWe still plan to release the H502w when the netural white XM-L we want is available. Other similar models such as SC600w, H600w/H600Fw will be out of stock (or back order) soon.


----------



## climberkid

I don't see any response there, only your inquiry.


-Alex


----------



## nisshin

climberkid said:


> I don't see any response there, only your inquiry.


On my computer, the response I see is:
Staff (Administrator) 8/23/2012 3:27:09 PM: We still plan to release the H502w when the netural white XM-L we want is available. Other similar models such as SC600w, H600w/H600Fw will be out of stock (or back order) soon.


----------



## B0wz3r

From the answers I've gotten from them when I've emailed them to inquire about the availability of new neutral models, and my experiences with different Zebra models with neutral tint emitters, they are very picky about their tints. I was even told once in an email from them that the reason they were holding back on the release of a new model was because they were still trying to secure a supply of emitters with the tint they wanted, and to vet the tint before they started manufacturing. Frankly, I'm willing to wait for them to do that, because after some of my experiences with other companies (cough... 4... cough... Sevens... cough...) I'm sick of playing the tint lottery and prefer to know that the light I'm ordering is most likely going to have a tint that I am happy with.


----------



## mobi

mr_magicfingers said:


> Has anyone seen both the standard and the D version together? How much drop in brightness do you see in the real world? Considering getting the D version rather than wait for the W version, just wondering how much real world difference the brightness drop would make from the standard which would appear, from the figures, to be a third brighter, though I'm sure our eyes wouldn't see it as that much.
> 
> Any ideas on how bright the warm version would be?



An imprecise answer: The standard seems brighter on any given setting, but the light from the D is "richer" which tends to "equalize" the scene. In other words, in a situation where I use the standard on say M1, I also tend to set the D on M1. In practice, the standard is my outdoors light (supplemented by the H51w), and the D the house light.

The light from the D is kind of like mid morning/late afternoon sunlight.

Just some impressions.


----------



## moses

I tested the 502 and 502d recently side by side. per my light meter using direct and reflected ceiling bounce, the d is HALF the lumens of the 502. However, the quality of light is obviously better - so much that I deemed the 502d worth keeping over the 502. 

Mo



mr_magicfingers said:


> Has anyone seen both the standard and the D version together? How much drop in brightness do you see in the real world? Considering getting the D version rather than wait for the W version, just wondering how much real world difference the brightness drop would make from the standard which would appear, from the figures, to be a third brighter, though I'm sure our eyes wouldn't see it as that much.
> 
> Any ideas on how bright the warm version would be?


----------



## moozooh

I've just come back from a forest/mountain trek through the southern part of the Crimea where I've been using H502d as my main light. There were two of us, my girlfriend and myself; most of the walking was done during sunlight and twilight. After the sunset the 502 was mainly used as a camping light/bedlight.

The overall impression was that I never felt like I needed more light from my headlamp. The brightness—much thanks to superior tint and color rendition—exceeded my expectations by a lot. In fact, I never even once _had_ to use the H modes, and the flood was broad enough that my girlfriend (who had no headlamp of her own; she dislikes those) felt the ground was lit enough for her when she walked beside me.

More in-depth view on the modes I used during the trek.



40 lm: not the most used but perhaps the most _useful_ mode. It lit up the ground to some 5–7 meters ahead and 1–2 to the sides. Was equally useful in twilight and complete dark. Setting up a camp was very easy with it no matter the surroundings, and no items were ever lost. Was used about 1 to 2 hours per day.
2 lm: to my surprise, the most _used_ mode. Surprisingly bright despite the flood angle! It was mainly used as a reading lamp and a tent lamp in the evenings. Our tent had a mesh ceiling rack that I put the 502 down on, facing down, which made it light up the interior space completely and evenly (and made the tent glow eerily as seen from the outside as a funny side-effect). Think 1.5–3 hours a day.
0.06 lm: the mode the light was left on in the tent when we were going to bed—basically, the mode I switched down to from the 2 lm mode instead of turning the light off. While it undoubtedly wound up with more hours of output than all other modes combined (some 6–8 hours per day), we were asleep during pretty much all of them, so it doesn't really count as "used". 
10 lm: the mode I mainly used for cooking and eating our evening meals. 40 lm seemed like overkill while 2 lm felt not enough. Again this was bright and broad enough that my girlfriend was able to use the sidespill to light up her meal while I was eating mine.
170 lm: was used a couple times just to see how ludicrously bright it was. In fact it's so bright it _throws_: I was able to noticeably light up objects some ~30 meters away. I never even needed that much in the first place, not from a headlamp anyway. But still this is a nice thing to have for some kind of emergency situation or somesuch. It's much brighter than what would be needed for a nighttime trail run assuming the trail is any familiar to the runner; the 110 lm mode would be way more than enough for that purpose in my opinion—I doubt one would need to run for more than two hours straight off an eneloop anyway.

All other modes were never used. When I needed to light up faraway objects I used my SC600. My girlfriend used a Thrunite Ti when she didn't need to use both hands; in all other situations I would use the 502 to light up whatever she needed. All in all the light was actively (and productively) used at least three hours a day on four modes out of the eleven, and it was used at all times it was needed. The GitD feature also was helpful on more than one occasion, although admittedly it could have been replaced by the 0.06 lm mode quite as well without any adverse effects to speak of.

A note on runtimes and battery drain. As expected, the light stepped down on modes as the AA cell was nearing depletion. Luckily enough this coincided with my usage scenario as I was setting up a camp and was ready to start cooking our evening meal as it stepped down from 40 to 10 lm, and stepped down further to 2 lm as we were about to go inside the tent, so I was able to use the cell up pretty much completely. Did I say "the cell"? Oh, right. *I used up only one*, and it was an Energizer *alkaline* that was only 60–75% full as we were starting the trek—it was the same cell I used back when I was toying with the light after it arrived. I changed it on the *sixth* day of our trip out of nine. Before we left for the Crimea I expected to use up four Energizer L91s on this trek and had to return with three of them completely full and one about 3/4 full at worst; I wasn't particularly adamant on using the lowest modes feasible for my needs either. All in all one L91, or even one eneloop XX, would have been plenty enough for the entire trip. I wish I knew! If this isn't the testament to this light's efficiency I don't know what is. Bravo, ZebraLight! At this point I'm convinced you're doing yourself a disservice by making lights so good I don't even feel the need to eventually replace them. :laughing:

To avoid sounding like an advertising pamphlet I'll list some things I wasn't quite pleased with too.



Exceptionally wide angle basically means nobody can look at your face without being dazzled to an extent. This, depending on the distance and ambient light, applies to every mode upwards of one lumen. Not unexpected but still an important downside to consider if you're, say, spelunking or mountain climbing in a group, when such glares could become not only annoying but also dangerous.
The mode switch timing took a while to get used to. Part of the times I accidentally turned the light on high when I wanted it on low. A well-known problem, though. My girlfriend, not being particularly logical or tech-savvy, also couldn't get used to the interface for some time; it just appeared random to her at first.

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## moses

Fabulous review. 

502d is now my most used EDC. Even with the lack of a strobe that I use regularly on mountain road walks to alert drivers whizzing by (incredibly effective in getting cars to slow down), and lower lumens than advertised, it has been the best lighting too I've had. the 85CRI really does make a difference is much more relaxing to the eyes. 

Great review! Thanks.

Mo




moozooh said:


> I've just come back from a forest/mountain trek through the southern part of the Crimea where I've been using H502d as my main light. There were two of us, my girlfriend and myself; most of the walking was done during sunlight and twilight. After the sunset the 502 was mainly used as a camping light/bedlight.


----------



## wentworth

Thanks for the excellent review moozooh


----------



## Zeruel

moses said:


> ...Even with the lack of a strobe that I use regularly on mountain road walks to alert drivers whizzing by....



There's a hidden strobe mode, you just have to programme it on the sub-level of the high mode.


----------



## mobi

moozooh said:


> Exceptionally wide angle basically means nobody can look at your face without being dazzled to an extent. This, depending on the distance and ambient light, applies to every mode upwards of one lumen. Not unexpected but still an important downside to consider if you're, say, spelunking or mountain climbing in a group, when such glares could become not only annoying but also dangerous.



Nice review!

I've been experimenting with attaching filters to the lens. A dark filter, or just a piece of paper, with a hole in the center would reduce the angle of the flood.


----------



## skycamnz

moozooh said:


> ... My girlfriend, not being particularly logical or tech-savvy, also couldn't get used to the interface for some time; it just appeared random to her at first.



Great review moozooh! I can understand your girlfriend not getting the hang of the UI for a while. There is one aspect of the UI I didn't get the hang of myself until just recently. I've owned my 502 for close to 2 months now.


----------



## Surnia

skycamnz said:


> Great review moozooh! I can understand your girlfriend not getting the hang of the UI for a while. There is one aspect of the UI I didn't get the hang of myself until just recently. I've owned my 502 for close to 2 months now.



I'm on the other end of that, picked it up and the UI was super easy. Love the light so far, the 120º wide and even beam is superb! I wanted it for a backup light and a small support photo light, but it leave really sharp shadow lines... maybe I need a second one...


----------



## ico

varuscelli said:


>





bbb74 said:


>



In the second picture, there is a whole lot of gap around the LED. Is it a bad batch or the GITD were just cut for the XML? Is the luxeon than much smaller than an XML that's why there seems to be a lot of gap?


----------



## moozooh

It's the second case I think. The Luxeon is indeed considerably smaller, and my 502d has the same gap.


----------



## DIΩDΣ

I have been really wanting to get the H502_. Lots of uses in mind but things like working under the hood of a car, camping, and just edc come to mind. But one thing I just realized it might be usefull for is supplimental lighting for macro photography. Anyone here into macro photography? It could probably be rigged around the lens easy enough. I am leaning towards the 'D' version but perhaps the C version would be best for photography. I like the more nuetral daylight white though, and they are the same CRI anyhow. Any thoughts?


----------



## moozooh

The d is more neutral and closer to the standard camera flash CCT (5500 K). The c will appear warmer. Actually, since you can correct for either in postprocessing it's not a big deal, but I'd say only get the c if you prefer a warm tint over neutral.


----------



## wentworth

I picked up a H502d and I'm glad I went for this tint.
I am curious about the battery indicator light. It varies from four flashes to one to three and back to four when I test the eneloop. Shouldn't it remain constantly either full or semi depleted? These four tests were done within a minute of each other.


----------



## sbbsga

wentworth said:


> I picked up a H502d and I'm glad I went for this tint.
> I am curious about the battery indicator light. It varies from four flashes to one to three and back to four when I test the eneloop. Shouldn't it remain constantly either full or semi depleted? These four tests were done within a minute of each other.



Mine gives false readings too. When it does, I clean the contact points at the body-tailcap.


----------



## gundam83

I just purchased an H502 and I'm curious on the actual-on times (not run time). I was planning on using the H502 for night hikes, and I wanted to see how long I can leave it on constantly for (260 lumens and 50 lumens specifically) without getting dangerously hot. It won't be strapped to my head, but on a pals webbing on a chest rig so I'm not concerned about the heat to myself, but whether or not the actual flashlight can handle it.


----------



## moozooh

I apologize: I made a mistake in my short review of H502d on the previous page. The mode I thought to be 20 lm was in fact 10 lm all along! Other than that, my impressions remain the same, and I've got at least a couple friends interested in the model.



gundam83 said:


> I just purchased an H502 and I'm curious on the actual-on times (not run time). I was planning on using the H502 for night hikes, and I wanted to see how long I can leave it on constantly for (260 lumens and 50 lumens specifically) without getting dangerously hot. It won't be strapped to my head, but on a pals webbing on a chest rig so I'm not concerned about the heat to myself, but whether or not the actual flashlight can handle it.


50 lumens would barely get it warm. The battery would give out first. Can't say for sure about the 260 lm setting but it's no H600 with its 420 lm for over two hours. I wouldn't worry either way as the body is designed to use most of its surface to dissipate heat; the flashlight itself will handle it just fine.


----------



## low

DIΩDΣ;4021053 said:


> I have been really wanting to get the H502_. Lots of uses in mind but things like working under the hood of a car, camping, and just edc come to mind. But one thing I just realized it might be usefull for is supplimental lighting for macro photography. Anyone here into macro photography? It could probably be rigged around the lens easy enough. I am leaning towards the 'D' version but perhaps the C version would be best for photography. I like the more nuetral daylight white though, and they are the same CRI anyhow. Any thoughts?




I have the d and c version, and for photos I belive the c version would suit you much better. The d is a little to cool, it shows the cool side enough so that it reflects off of stuff. The c shows no reflection, not even on paper.


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## tickled

low said:


> I have the d and c version, and for photos I belive the c version would suit you much better. The d is a little to cool, it shows the cool side enough so that it reflects off of stuff. The c shows no reflection, not even on paper.


 I'm curious. Do you have photos that show this?


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## low

tickled said:


> I'm curious. Do you have photos that show this?




I have not used my camera in quite some time, I meant to take it with me last friday but forgot. I will try again this friday.

For some reason the reflections come from man made stuff. Could there be a reason for this?


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## DIΩDΣ

low said:


> I have the d and c version, and for photos I belive the c version would suit you much better. The d is a little to cool, it shows the cool side enough so that it reflects off of stuff. The c shows no reflection, not even on paper.


Thanks for the info, I am still deciding. Macro photograph would be just one possible use (not really the main intended use), and I know it isnt ideal but a real ring flash is too pricey for jjust a hobby for me. I just occasionaly like to take pictures of insects and things like that.


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## Cataract

gundam83 said:


> I just purchased an H502 and I'm curious on the actual-on times (not run time). I was planning on using the H502 for night hikes, and I wanted to see how long I can leave it on constantly for (260 lumens and 50 lumens specifically) without getting dangerously hot. It won't be strapped to my head, but on a pals webbing on a chest rig so I'm not concerned about the heat to myself, but whether or not the actual flashlight can handle it.



I wouldn't worry about it. It will get hot after a few minutes on 260 lumens, but I've run mine (H502D) until it to steped down on it's own more than once. It was a little uncomfortable to touch, but nothing dangerous. Then it cools down pretty fast, like change the battery and it's already barely warmer than your skin. Excellent little lights, but I'd like more runtime on max :devil:


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## mobi

H502d survives apparently being run over.

The light fell out of my pocket near the drive-in ATM at the bank. I returned about an hour later looking for it. It has little indentations apparently from some heavy weight, presumably a car tire, pressing it into the pavement.

Works fine.


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## Bolster

mobi said:


> H502d survives apparently being run over.



Battle scars! Excellent. Glad you were able to retrieve it.


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## Bolster

DIΩDΣ;4026779 said:


> Thanks for the info, I am still deciding. Macro photograph would be just one possible use (not really the main intended use), and I know it isnt ideal but a real ring flash is too pricey for jjust a hobby for me. I just occasionaly like to take pictures of insects and things like that.



Wouldn't it be fun to mount two ZLs at 6 and 12 o-clock around the lens' objective.


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## moozooh

mobi said:


> It has little indentations apparently from some heavy weight, presumably a car tire, pressing it into the pavement.
> 
> Works fine.



Dang, that's impressive. I guess being so small helped a lot. Definitely a good testament to ZL's build quality.


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## ibu

I'm waiting for the H502w. Does anyone have maybe some insider knowledge, if there's a realistic chance that it will appear this year? Thanks.

One question about the colour temperature:

On
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...authkey=CNqP6KIC&hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC#gid=0
zebralight declares the 502c with a temperature of 4000K and the 502w with 4200K.

Theoretically that means, that the light of the "c" should appear more warm than of the "w".

Am I wrong?


----------



## Diablo_331

ibu said:


> I'm waiting for the H502w. Does anyone have maybe some insider knowledge, if there's a realistic chance that it will appear this year? Thanks.
> 
> One question about the colour temperature:
> 
> On
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atedkp7Jhq8wdGY0UTU2TmVwOW9Fc0FfUDFVSHVNS1E&authkey=CNqP6KIC&hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC#gid=0
> zebralight declares the 502c with a temperature of 4000K and the 502w with 4200K.
> 
> Theoretically that means, that the light of the "c" should appear more warm than of the "w".
> 
> Am I wrong?



If said samples are said color temperatures then yes, the C will be slightly warmer than the W but the difference will be minimal.


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## ibu

When the tint will be almost the same: What are the (relevant) advantages of the expected 502w versus 502c?


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## Bolster

ibu said:


> When the tint will be almost the same: What are the (relevant) advantages of the expected 502w versus 502c?



We're expecting the 502w to give more lumens--whether it adds enough to give a _functional advantage_ is a different question altogether. It's often said a 100% increase is necessary for a light to look noticeably brighter; it's also commonly said that you may be able to detect a 20% increase in a side-by-side test.

The H502c tops out at 142 according to the mfgr, so the above guidelines would mean the H502w would need to make 170 lumens (which is what an H502d puts out) before it would be detectably brighter than an H502c in a side-by-side test, and would need to make 280 (which is close to the H502's output of 260) to be "noticeably brighter."

I've seen estimates of the H502w's lumens, but don't remember what they were...does anyone know, can someone help? 

If you look at the SC51 and the SC51w, or the SC51f to the SC51fw, the w version is 84% (ie 16% dimmer) compared to the non-w version. So if you apply that calculation to the H502 at 260, that would put the H502w at around 218 lumens. If that's close, then it would place the H502w somewhere above "detectably brighter on a side-by-side test" but not as bright as the standard for "noticeably brighter," when compared to an H502c.

Which is a very longwinded way of saying: "A little brighter."

What the 'w' will give up is a little color rendition. Based on my tests and photos which you can find in this thread, the difference between 'w' and 'c' is subtle.


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## AnAppleSnail

ibu said:


> When the tint will be almost the same: What are the (relevant) advantages of the expected 502w versus 502c?



One way to represent a light source is by CCT and CRI. CCT is 'Color Correlated Temperature.' If I had a black-body (Something like a tungsten filament) and heated it, what temperature would most-closely match a given light source? Noontime daylight is around 5000-6000K, sunset 3000-4000K, and a hot electric stove coil around 1000K.

CRI is the 'Color Rendering Index.' If you take the spectral power distribution and overlay it with that same black-body of some temperature, how much does it overlap? 1 is perfect overlap. However, you could imagine a light with more-saturated red/orange output would give better color _perception_ than a CRI of 1, even though this distortion would reduce the CRI.

Edit: I was corrected on these CCTs. Thanks, Diablo!
Generally speaking, having a light source with a CCT between 4000-6000K and a CRI near 100 will give stunning color perception and recording in photos. That's the fuss; the 'High CRI' aspect, along with higher-than-usual CCT. The 'c' (CRI) is around 4000K, the 'w' (Warmer, 'Neutral-White') is around 4200K, the 'd' (daylight) around 5000K.

Edit2: For further comparison
I am still flipping pancakes over my Oveready "High CRI" Nichia LED light. It has a 4500K CCT with 92 CRI. It is a triple emitter, making it quite floody and powerful. Using this thing in the garden after dark looks like I bought a bottle of sun to work with. If I get a headlamp-style P60 host, this dropin will be a top contender just for making it look like daylight (Down to the brightness).


----------



## ibu

@Bolster
Thanks for the helpful comment.

Edit:
And as well @AnAppleSnail

I will wait some month for the "w".


----------



## Bolster

ibu said:


> @Bolster
> Thanks for the helpful comment. I will wait some month for the "w".



My pleasure. I'm waiting along with you. I'd very much like to do a side-by-side comparison with my H502c.


----------



## Diablo_331

AnAppleSnail said:


> One way to represent a light source is by CCT and CRI. CCT is 'Color Correlated Temperature.' If I had a black-body (Something like a tungsten filament) and heated it, what temperature would most-closely match a given light source? Noontime daylight is around 5000-6000K, sunset 3000-4000K, and a hot electric stove coil around 1000K.
> 
> CRI is the 'Color Rendering Index.' If you take the spectral power distribution and overlay it with that same black-body of some temperature, how much does it overlap? 1 is perfect overlap. However, you could imagine a light with more-saturated red/orange output would give better color perception than a CRI of 1, even though this distortion would reduce the CRI.
> 
> Generally speaking, having a light source with a CCT between 4000-6000K and a CRI near 100 will give stunning color perception and recording in photos. That's the fuss; the 'High CRI' aspect, along with higher-than-usual CCT. The 'w' is around 4000K, the 'c' around 5000K.



Wonderful post AnAppleSnail. Just a small correction if you will.. The W is 4200k, the D 5000k, and the C is 4000k.


----------



## B0wz3r

The general rule of thumb is that physical intensity needs to be tripled for a perceived doubling of brightness. So, a 100 lumen light would need to be increased to 300 to be perceived as twice as bright, on average across a range of observers.

This also assumes that one light is being increased, or that two lights with equal power spectra but different objective intensities are being compared. If the power spectra were to differ, other perceptual mechanisms would be invoked and increase or reduce the perceived difference in brightness.

To detect a difference between two stimuli, the amount of difference depends on the stimuli in question. For something like electrical current, a slight increase in voltage produces a tremendous increase in perceived pain from the shock. For other stimuli, it's the opposite (like above, for light) and you need a large increase for a very small perceived difference. In general, across many different stimuli, a change of about 10% in the objective physical intensity of the stimulus is required to exceed the difference threshold and produce a JND (just noticeable difference) for the observer.



Bolster said:


> We're expecting the 502w to give more lumens--whether it adds enough to give a _functional advantage_ is a different question altogether. It's often said a 100% increase is necessary for a light to look noticeably brighter; it's also commonly said that you may be able to detect a 20% increase in a side-by-side test.
> 
> The H502c tops out at 142 according to the mfgr, so the above guidelines would mean the H502w would need to make 170 lumens (which is what an H502d puts out) before it would be detectably brighter than an H502c in a side-by-side test, and would need to make 280 (which is close to the H502's output of 260) to be "noticeably brighter."
> 
> I've seen estimates of the H502w's lumens, but don't remember what they were...does anyone know, can someone help?
> 
> If you look at the SC51 and the SC51w, or the SC51f to the SC51fw, the w version is 84% (ie 16% dimmer) compared to the non-w version. So if you apply that calculation to the H502 at 260, that would put the H502w at around 218 lumens. If that's close, then it would place the H502w somewhere above "detectably brighter on a side-by-side test" but not as bright as the standard for "noticeably brighter," when compared to an H502c.
> 
> Which is a very longwinded way of saying: "A little brighter."
> 
> What the 'w' will give up is a little color rendition. Based on my tests and photos which you can find in this thread, the difference between 'w' and 'c' is subtle.


----------



## Bolster

B0wz3r said:


> The general rule of thumb...



Educational, as always, Bowz. You are a veritable fount of good information. Didn't know that about electrical shocks, and given my background, I should have...

So, you're saying a 10% difference may be noticeable on a side-by-side test of two identical tints?


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## DIΩDΣ

Bolster said:


> Wouldn't it be fun to mount two ZLs at 6 and 12 o-clock around the lens' objective.


Well my hope was since the 502 is so floody only one should be needed. Still havent ordered one yet. Debating making the jump to the 600 and Li-ion instead. Would be better to add to the bike for a headlamp. But then again I rarely bike after dark. Probably more uses for a true flood.


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## B0wz3r

Bolster said:


> Educational, as always, Bowz. You are a veritable fount of good information. Didn't know that about electrical shocks, and given my background, I should have...
> 
> So, you're saying a 10% difference may be noticeable on a side-by-side test of two identical tints?



Yup. It even works for computer processing speed. It does vary, of course, from stimulus to stimulus, but it is a good general rule that holds for most things we're trying to detect a difference between, perceptually.

I've taught classes in sensory perception a number of times now, and one thing I see that students have difficulty understanding is the distinction between what's called the _difference threshold_, and the _just noticeable difference_ (JND). I mention it, because this distinction is a fundamental one for understanding how perception works to create the experiences we have. Simply put, the difference threshold is the objective measure of the difference in physical intensity between two stimuli, whereas the JND is the perceptual correlate of the difference threshold; in other words, our subjective conscious experience of the intensity difference. While they are two aspects of a given physical phenomenon/stimulus, _they're not the same thing_. And, that's what throws most people about it.

If you're interested, there are a lot of excellent sources about perceptual science on the web. If you have any other questions about this stuff, just let me know.


----------



## Esko

B0wz3r said:


> The general rule of thumb is that physical intensity needs to be tripled for a perceived doubling of brightness. So, a 100 lumen light would need to be increased to 300 to be perceived as twice as bright, on average across a range of observers.



Uneducated people think it should be "double the lumens, double the brightness", which is clearly wrong. I thought that the general consensus in CPF was that to double the perceivable brightness, one needs to quadruble the intensity. That is the number I have referred multiple times outside CPF. I have also seen a reference to natural logarithm. And now you say that the intensity should be tripled.

I guess you should know the best, so, could you give a scientifically solid source which explains this phenomena. Preferably one which can be found online (generally accepted articles or good reviews in scientific journals are fine, too, I can access them through University). Next time I need to explain the phenomena to someone else, I want neither be uncertain about it myself, nor start the explanation with: "I don't know exactly, but...". Thanks.


----------



## peterharvey73

Mathematically, the total output in lumens = the intensity in lux multiplied by the surface area of illumination.
One of the problems with light is that the word "brightness" can mean both the total lumen output, or the intensity of light.
Thus, a greater total output in lumens is said to be brighter.
A greater intensity in lux, is also said to be brighter too.
So indeed, if we double the lumens, we double the brightness.
However, if we use the specific term lux, then doubling the lumens doesn't necessarily double the brightness in lux; it may be the same lux, illuminating double the surface area.

The eye's perception of the brightness is apparently logarithmic; I don't know the exact power of n.
However, with sound, we must multiply the power to the power of three, ie eight times, to double the sound volume...


----------



## Bolster

It's an interesting discussion, but when it comes to buying a new or upgraded light, a 'just noticeable difference' is meaningless to me. I'm much more interested in what the eye would consider a "significant difference," where you're confident one light is definitely brighter than the other, without needing to do careful side-by-sides or same-light-but-increase-brightness comparisons. 

What I'm saying is, I'm more interested in the percentage increase where you'd say, "I can see more with the new model, so maybe it's time to buy a new light," rather than "I think maybe I saw a little difference on a side by side comparison, possibly." The lower boundary of perception just isn't compelling to me. 

I've gotten the impression that the "significantly brighter" standard was around +100% brighter, and that tends to be how I space out my purchases, if possible. If my current light does 150, I probably won't rebuy until it gets close to 300, etc. Although I bet the "rebuy" percentage is different for everyone. There may be people who are willing to rebuy when the light is +50% brighter, or maybe even +25% brighter, just because they like having the latest and greatest. But that's a different sort of motivation. That's not a functional motivation anymore. 

I would not even consider replacing for a +10-20% increase, because that (to me) isn't a functional difference for the use I put my lights to.


----------



## pobox1475

I have a H30w that has been great. The jump to a 502 is more from the ability to run a single Eneloop instead of the RCR123 needed in my 30. Am a little curious how much more lumes the 502 will yield though?


----------



## Esko

peterharvey73 said:


> Mathematically, the total output in lumens = the intensity in lux multiplied by the surface area of illumination.
> One of the problems with light is that the word "brightness" can mean both the total lumen output, or the intensity of light.
> Thus, a greater total output in lumens is said to be brighter.
> A greater intensity in lux, is also said to be brighter too.
> So indeed, if we double the lumens, we double the brightness.
> However, if we use the specific term lux, then doubling the lumens doesn't necessarily double the brightness in lux; it may be the same lux, illuminating double the surface area.
> 
> The eye's perception of the brightness is apparently logarithmic; I don't know the exact power of n.
> However, with sound, we must multiply the power to the power of three, ie eight times, to double the sound volume...



With sound, I thought it was a tenfold increase in power that was needed to double the perceived sound volume. Oh well. :shrug:

It was the perceived brightness that I was interested in. If different people just sense it differently, it is good to know, too. Anyone there with any in-depth knowledge/information (with credible sources)?


----------



## moozooh

pobox1475 said:


> I have a H30w that has been great. The jump to a 502 is more from the ability to run a single Eneloop instead of the RCR123 needed in my 30. Am a little curious how much more lumes the 502 will yield though?



The H502 will yield more lumens on every M and H setting (after all you don't want _more_ lumens on the low ones...) and have better runtimes on H and L settings compared to an RCR123 in H30. Overall it's a much more power-efficient product that can go both brighter and dimmer.


----------



## B0wz3r

Esko said:


> Uneducated people think it should be "double the lumens, double the brightness", which is clearly wrong. I thought that the general consensus in CPF was that to double the perceivable brightness, one needs to quadruble the intensity. That is the number I have referred multiple times outside CPF. I have also seen a reference to natural logarithm. And now you say that the intensity should be tripled.
> 
> I guess you should know the best, so, could you give a scientifically solid source which explains this phenomena. Preferably one which can be found online (generally accepted articles or good reviews in scientific journals are fine, too, I can access them through University). Next time I need to explain the phenomena to someone else, I want neither be uncertain about it myself, nor start the explanation with: "I don't know exactly, but...". Thanks.



The definitive work on detecting differences in stimuli was done by the perceptual psychologist S.S. Stevens. I have several of his classic research papers in PDF format, but none of the free image hosting services support multipage PDF's, so I can't post any of them. 

Discussions of Stevens' work can be found in most any textbook on sensory perception or visual perception. One of the best, although it is a bit out of date now, has not been updated or revised, is _Visual Perception_ by Stephen Palmer, who was a professor of mine when I was an undergraduate at Cal Berkeley. Stevens proposed an exponential equation that describes the relationship between objective and perceived intensity, that largely holds for just about all common stimuli. 

It's true that perceptual increases in many cases are logarithmic in nature, but in Stevens' equation, this is represented simply by using a fractional exponent. Each stimulus and its mode of presentation has its own exponent. To the best of my memory, Stevens found an average exponent of 3 across a wide variety of light sources and sizes, but I'll have to look it up to provide an exact value. So, as I mentioned, it is a tripling of the objective intensity of a light that produces a perceived doubling in brightness.



peterharvey73 said:


> Mathematically, the total output in lumens = the intensity in lux multiplied by the surface area of illumination.
> One of the problems with light is that the word "brightness" can mean both the total lumen output, or the intensity of light.
> Thus, a greater total output in lumens is said to be brighter.
> A greater intensity in lux, is also said to be brighter too.
> So indeed, if we double the lumens, we double the brightness.
> However, if we use the specific term lux, then doubling the lumens doesn't necessarily double the brightness in lux; it may be the same lux, illuminating double the surface area.
> 
> The eye's perception of the brightness is apparently logarithmic; I don't know the exact power of n.
> However, with sound, we must multiply the power to the power of three, ie eight times, to double the sound volume...



The problem with this is that this is the objective measure only; it does not take into account the particulars of how the visual system works as a neurological information processing mechanism. This is why I consider lumens to be an inadequate measure of brightness, because it doesn't take actual the actual characteristics of visual perception into account. 

And, things get a whole lot worse when you start varying the power spectra involved as well. For example, take two objectively bright lights, one red, and one blue (both of equivalent lumens, lux, etc.) Have an observer compare them side by side, and they will perceive the red one as brighter than the blue one, despite them both being of equal objective intensity. Why is this? 

The answer lies in the proportion of the three types of photoreceptors in the retina. On average, 60% of all photoreceptors are long-wavelength (red) cones, while only about 10% are short-wavelength (blue) cones. The brain encodes brightness by the amount of incoming signal from the different types of receptors. Because we have many more red cones than blue cones, the signal the red cones sends to the brain is much stronger than the signal sent by the blue cones, and we perceive the red as brighter as a result. I won't even get into the Purkinje shift in color brightness that occurs in mesopic vision right now... I don't want to type it all out. 



Bolster said:


> It's an interesting discussion, but when it comes to buying a new or upgraded light, a 'just noticeable difference' is meaningless to me. I'm much more interested in what the eye would consider a "significant difference," where you're confident one light is definitely brighter than the other, without needing to do careful side-by-sides or same-light-but-increase-brightness comparisons.
> 
> What I'm saying is, I'm more interested in the percentage increase where you'd say, "I can see more with the new model, so maybe it's time to buy a new light," rather than "I think maybe I saw a little difference on a side by side comparison, possibly." The lower boundary of perception just isn't compelling to me.
> 
> I've gotten the impression that the "significantly brighter" standard was around +100% brighter, and that tends to be how I space out my purchases, if possible. If my current light does 150, I probably won't rebuy until it gets close to 300, etc. Although I bet the "rebuy" percentage is different for everyone. There may be people who are willing to rebuy when the light is +50% brighter, or maybe even +25% brighter, just because they like having the latest and greatest. But that's a different sort of motivation. That's not a functional motivation anymore.
> 
> I would not even consider replacing for a +10-20% increase, because that (to me) isn't a functional difference for the use I put my lights to.


By definition, a JND is the smallest difference in objective intensity between two stimuli (in this case lights) for an observer to recognize they're different brightnesses. It is the intensity difference that produces a correct distinction 50% of the time an observer tries to tell if the two lights are of different brightnesses. So, the use of the term "significant" here really is only in terms of probability, not in terms of what would be considered a "useful" or "usable" difference. 

The probability computations in all of this can get a little daunting, and require a fair amount of mathematics and statistics to accurately describe and compute. Simply put, in perceptual psychology we borrow the methods used in communications theory for signal detection. When an observer is trying to determine if two stimuli are different brightnesses, there are four possible outcomes; a "hit" is when the two are actually different, and the observer says they see that one is brighter than the other; a "miss" is when they are actually different, but the observer doesn't perceive the difference; a "false alarm" is when the two are not different, but the observer reports they are, and a "correct rejection" is when the lights aren't different, and the observer says they're not. 

The advantage of this is this method provides a way to determine an observer's response bias; whether they tend to say "no" more often, or whether they tend to say "yes" more often. This can also be changed by motivations, or possible penalties for the detection task. If you reward observers with, say, 25 cents for every Hit, and penalize them 5 cents for every wrong answer, they're going to say Yes more often to maximize their reward. They'll get more Hits, but also more False Alarms. If you reverse these amounts, they'll say No more often to minimize their penalty. The important measure that's computed from this is called D-prime; the ratio of an observer's Hits to False Alarms. A D-prime value of 1 indicate's their just guessing; performing at random chance, and their individual ability to discriminate differences between the stimuli is poor, or they don't care about their performance and literally are just guessing. As D-prime increases, so does the observer's sensitivity to detect the difference; they get more and more Hits, but their False Alarm rate stays low. So, one person may produce more Hits than another, but if they also have a high False Alarm rate, they're actually not as sensitive as someone who produced less Hits, but many fewer False Alarms. 

So, as you can see there is a lot of individual difference between observers in this. As I mention about Stevens' work above, the exponents he produced originate from averaging the results across a large sample of observers. What might be a usable difference for one person might not even be noticed by another person, such as someone with nyctalopia (night blindness). Stevens used a method called magnitude estimation to quantify his perceptual results. While there has been some justified criticism of the method, in general it works quite well, and Stevens' results have been very robust over time and are still quite valid and useful. Better methods do exist, such as signal detection methods I mention above, but they are much more labor and data intensive, even though they do allow the quantification of individual differences and more precise results. 

In general though, across a large sample of observers, Stevens' Law and his results (unique exponents in his equation for different stimuli) are still the best heuristic we have for evaluating perceptual changes in an observer.


----------



## skycamnz

BOwz3r, am in awe of your dissertation. WOW!!!! You have an impressive handle on the intricacies and correlation of measured and perceived levels of illumination. Thank you for going to the trouble to try and explain to us mere mortals.....


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## ToyTank

OK bowser so what is the best flashlight? J/K!! J/K!! Don't hit me!


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## Pretbek

Thanks B0wz3r, it was thorough brain-dumps like this, reviews like moozooh's and the H51 mod thread that made me get an H502d. That's right, "made me". It wasn't me, I couldn't help it, it is all your fault!

I might be a flashlight newbie, but I have developed some sense of light color preference while looking at and using auxiliary lighting for motorcycles, where tastes also runs the gambit (gamut?) from "Brighter is better" to "More natural light makes you see better, even if it's less intense". I'm mostly in the "natural" camp, hence my choice to get the "d".

When the H502d arrives in about a week, we'll see if I made the right color choice. To be honest I expect to be overwhelmed by mah bestest light evah, so it will be all good.


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## Bolster

B0wz3r said:


> So, the use of the term "significant" here really is only in terms of probability, not in terms of what would be considered a "useful" or "usable" difference.



Yes, you intuited I was using the term "significant" in the non-statistical sense. I was using "significant" and "functional" as interchangeable terms. So, do you have any ideas on what the significant/functional/useful/usable threshold is? It's often repeated here on CPF it's around 100%, but...you're the dude with the degree...what say you?


----------



## Esko

-> B0wz3r

Thank you for your educating and thorough answer. I have yet to hunt down a reference (something that you named or some easier to find/newer text book on visual perception). One part of your answer did raise immediate need to ask more, though...



B0wz3r said:


> The problem with this is that this is the objective measure only; it does not take into account the particulars of how the visual system works as a neurological information processing mechanism. This is why I consider lumens to be an inadequate measure of brightness, because it doesn't take actual the actual characteristics of visual perception into account.
> 
> And, things get a whole lot worse when you start varying the power spectra involved as well. For example, take two objectively bright lights, one red, and one blue (both of equivalent lumens, lux, etc.) Have an observer compare them side by side, and they will perceive the red one as brighter than the blue one, despite them both being of equal objective intensity. Why is this?
> 
> The answer lies in the proportion of the three types of photoreceptors in the retina. On average, 60% of all photoreceptors are long-wavelength (red) cones, while only about 10% are short-wavelength (blue) cones. The brain encodes brightness by the amount of incoming signal from the different types of receptors. Because we have many more red cones than blue cones, the signal the red cones sends to the brain is much stronger than the signal sent by the blue cones, and we perceive the red as brighter as a result.



For example, Xeno E03 is a light that can be bought with three different leds. According to Cree, these are the minimum luminous fluxes of the leds used in Xeno at 700mA:

XM-L U2 cool white, 300 lumens
XM-L T6 neutral white, 280 lumens
XM-L T4 warm white, 240 lumens

The differences in output are 7-25% depending on which leds (flashlights) you compare and how you calculate it. But if you ask CPF'ers, pretty much all of them will say that neutral white *looks* dimmer than cool white, and warm white *looks* distinctively dimmer than cool white. Even though the differences are just around the difference threshold or JND border (for similar tinted lights).

And now to the part that I don't quite understand.

You wrote that if comparing a blue light and red light (similar lumens etc.), the red one is seen as the brighter one. Cool white leds are rich in blue light. Warm whites aren't; instead, they emit lots of more red and orange light. Why don't we perceive the light emitted by warm white leds brighter than the one emitted by cool white leds? Or at least as bright. The differences in objective output (lumens) are rather small anyway; If eyes are more sensitive to red light, this would sound like a logical outcome.


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## moozooh

The difference is that those three are not monochromatic lights, while red and blue are monochromatic. Take blue, red, and green lasers of equal output power, and green will appear brighter by far, the red being second and blue the dimmest (again, by far). Or, I dunno, take a monitor test utility that has solid color tests among others, turn off all lights in your room, and see how different colors light up your room at the same backlight intensity.

One of the main reasons we can easily distinguish U2 from T6 is different tints. The neutral T6 indeed appears dimmer, but that's because we can distinguish it in the first place. Had both of them been the same tint and CCT, it would be pretty hard to do so.

For the record, I also consider lumens to be an inadequate means to compare different lights, because the spectrum coverage (represented by CRI) and beam profile affect our ability to distinguish shapes and colors—which is the only reason we have to use flashlights in the first place—about as heavily as the overall light output.


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## Bolster

If a cool, neutral, and warm all put out the same lumens, does the warm look dimmer than the neutral, and the neutral dimmer than the cool?


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## Esko

moozooh said:


> The difference is that those three are not monochromatic lights, while red and blue are monochromatic. Take blue, red, and green lasers of equal output power, and green will appear brighter by far, the red being second and blue the dimmest (again, by far). Or, I dunno, take a monitor test utility that has solid color tests among others, turn off all lights in your room, and see how different colors light up your room at the same backlight intensity.



The chromatic difference is there of course. But if we consider red brighter than blue, why do we consider a white light with lots of red being dimmer than a white light with lots of blue?



moozooh said:


> One of the main reasons we can easily distinguish U2 from T6 is different tints. The neutral T6 indeed appears dimmer, but that's because we can distinguish it in the first place. Had both of them been the same tint and CCT, it would be pretty hard to do so.



So... You mean that it is psychological? The brightness is pretty much the same, but since we recognize the tints and *know* that neutral white emits less lumens, we just believe it is dimmer?


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## moozooh

Esko said:


> The chromatic difference is there of course. But if we consider red brighter than blue, why do we consider a white light with lots of red being dimmer than a white light with lots of blue?



I'm not sure that is the correct comparison. Red will be brighter than blue at the same raw lumen count. Cool white is white with a spike of blue, because the LED itself emits blue color; white color and general spectrum coverage is achieved by adding phosphors lit up by the blue. Now I'm approaching the limit of my knowledge so I would rather have an LED technician answer this, but I think dying phosphor so that it emits more red negates some of the blue light coming from the LED, thus yielding less raw lumens.



Esko said:


> So... You mean that it is psychological? The brightness is pretty much the same, but since we recognize the tints and *know* that neutral white emits less lumens, we just believe it is dimmer?



It's not psychological, and I don't think knowledge plays any significant role in this; whiteness certainly does, though. CW emitters are "whiter", harder on the eyes and easily reflected by darker surfaces, so they appear brighter even if they aren't in terms of raw lumen. In this sense, "brightness" is again an inadequate measure of illumination quality. This may have something to do with the physiological evolution of our senses and the fact that in prehistoric times we were used to be waken up with colder sunrise CCT and use warm CCT fire in the evening. I'm sure B0wz3r has a lot to add to my musings.


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## Esko

moozooh said:


> I'm not sure that is the correct comparison. Red will be brighter than blue at the same raw lumen count. Cool white is white with a spike of blue, because the LED itself emits blue color; white color and general spectrum coverage is achieved by adding phosphors lit up by the blue. Now I'm approaching the limit of my knowledge so I would rather have an LED technician answer this, but I think dying phosphor so that it emits more red negates some of the blue light coming from the LED, thus yielding less raw lumens.



Ok, let me re-iterate the test setup.

Lets have two leds with identical spread pattern and lumen output. One is blue, another is red. According to B0wz3rs answer, the red one is considered brighter (the perceived brightness). 

Now, let's take two leds more, neutral white with identical spread pattern and identical lumen output with each other. And let's put them next to the blue and red led, thus creating warm white light and cool white light.

Before the addition, red was considered brighter by human eye. Is it now considered dimmer? Why?


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## moozooh

Because the cool white is white and not blue, and warm white is also white and not red. There is different receptor chemistry involved in perception of the two setups. If you want an analogy as to how feasible such a comparison would be, imagine two test setups: 

— a 330 Hz sine wave (perfect E) vs. 440 Hz sine wave (perfect A), same amplitude;
— brown noise vs. pink noise, same amplitude.

Now how do you go about comparing those, considering that human ear has nonlinear sensitivity to sound frequencies, just like our eyes to light frequencies? As far as I understand, that is exactly B0wz3r's beef with this kind of comparisons. Either you end up with inconsequential conclusions or they're too limited to remain practical.


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## Esko

moozooh said:


> Because the cool white is white and not blue, and warm white is also white and not red. There is different receptor chemistry involved in perception of the two setups. If you want an analogy as to how feasible such a comparison would be, imagine two test setups:
> 
> — a 330 Hz sine wave (perfect E) vs. 440 Hz sine wave (perfect A), same amplitude;
> — brown noise vs. pink noise, same amplitude.
> 
> Now how do you go about comparing those, considering that human ear has nonlinear sensitivity to sound frequencies, just like our eyes to light frequencies? As far as I understand, that is exactly B0wz3r's beef with this kind of comparisons. Either you end up with inconsequential conclusions or they're too limited to remain practical.



How do I compare *perceived/subjective* loudness? By playing sound samples and asking test personnel which is louder. A more sophisticated test method was described by B0wz3r. I believe this is the way the nonlinear sensitivities were studied in the first place. How else could it have been done?

I also believe it is useful to compare sound/light sources that have different characteristics. When people hear different voices and see different lights, they do evaluate the loudness and brightness all the time. And that is subjective evaluation based on perceived perception. Very common in everyday life.

I didn't quite understand the analogy in sound frequencies. Are you suggesting, that (for example) when comparing said 330Hz and 440 Hz sound samples the latter one is subjectively considered louder, but if you add equal intensity of (for example) pink noise, the total intensity of 330Hz+noise is subjectively considered louder? Or the other way around? If that is the case, I find it quite interesting.


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## moozooh

330 Hz and 440 Hz are your equivalents of monochromatic light, while pink and brown noise are the equivalent of differently tinted white light where all frequencies are present in some amount.

Human ear is more sensitive to 330 Hz—a lower frequency—than it is to 440 Hz, so the former may appear louder at the same sound pressure, even if objectively it wouldn't be. At the same time, pink and brown noise have content from all frequencies, including higher frequencies. Pink noise has more kilohertz-range frequencies in its spectrum than brown, and human ear is more sensitive to those than either 330 or 440 Hz so it will appear louder than brown, and either noise will appear louder ("thicker") than either of the clear tones. At the same time, paradoxically, both noises will sound _less annoying_ than a clear tone, and if you were to signal something you would choose a clear tone as it is easier to make out (read: harder to lose in background noise). And a square or buzzsaw-shaped wave would be even easier to make out than a sine, even if their amplitude and pitch stay the same.

Was the information about equal sound pressure practically useful to us considering such drastic differences in actual sound? No, not really.


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## B0wz3r

Hey guys, sorry for not getting back here sooner, I've been busy.

moozooh has pretty much hit the nail on the head as I understand all this. The issue, as I mentioned above, is the difference in the power spectrums involved. What moozooh said about the blending and the changed perception is correct as far as I know.

(BTB moozooh... nice discussion of the loudness vs frequency curve... when I teach perception the whole decibels, mels, sones, and phons, thing can really throw some students for a loop, trying to keep it all organized in their heads for a test! It actually makes teaching them about phase and phase shift seem easy in comparison!  Of course, I don't actually require them to do any acoustics problems... :devil: The funny thing is, I had to take a year of calculus as an undergrad for quantitative and critical thinking requirements for my bachelor's degree, and even as a professor, at most I occasionally use some trig. Makes me realize first-hand that fairness in the universe is an illusion!)

With respect to what Esko said, yes, that method is exactly what Stevens did when he created the magnitude estimation task. There will be tremendous differences in ratings of a single light from observer to observer if they are left to their own devices to describe it in a fashion that can be quantified for use as data. In addition to using a standard comparison stimulus for subjects to gauge differences from, he also gave it an arbitrary amount of 'units', frequently using 100 as the amount. Observers were told the standard stimulus was 100 units, and then had to say how different they thought the test stimuli were; so if they thought the test light was half as bright, they were to say it was 50 units; if they thought it was twice as bright they were to say it was 200 units, and so on. So, that's what magnitude estimation is. While the scale Stevens used for his tasks was linear, he transformed it for the appropriate computational analyses and the formulation of his algorithm. The wikipedia article on "Stevens' Power Law" is decent, if terse; at least it's a good introduction to the idea.

For those of you who are interested, here are a few books to check out that will give some good info about visual perception.

_Basic Vision; an introduction to visual perception._ Robert Snowden, Peter Thompson, and Tom Troscianko. Oxford University Press, ISBN 978-0-19-928670-6

This is probably both the most complete and accessible book I'll list here. I've used it as the primary text when I taught a course in visual perception at UC Merced a couple of years ago. (I've even met Tom Troscianko at the Vision Sciences Society conference in Sarasota a few years ago; he's a damn smart guy, and can party with the best of them too! He's a friend of my graduate advisor at UC Santa Cruz, Bruce Bridgeman.)

_Visual Perception; An Introduction._ Nicholas J. Wade and Michael T. Swanston. Psychology Press / Taylor Francis Group, ISBN 1-84169-204-2

Also very complete, but not as accessible as the first reference. Covers some history of the topic, which is informative, but not all that useful for getting a good understanding of how vision works and how it's currently studied.

_Foundations of Vision._ Brian A. Wandell. Sinauer Associates, ISBN 0-87893-853-2

This is by far the most complete book I'll list. It is also highly technical; if you don't have a working knowledge of calculus or advanced statistics, you'll have to skip much of it. However, it does cover a lot of the cognitive neurophysiology of the visual system as an information processing mechanism, and has a particularly good coverage of how the brain and visual system create neural representations of the stimuli patterns it receives, and how it processes them. It discusses a lot of this with computational models. Also a very expensive book. I met Brian Wandell about three years ago when he gave a talk when I was teaching at UC Merced. We kind of hit it off after his research presentation, and I almost got a post-doc working with him at Stanford, but my math is kind of weak, and I don't have any computational modeling experience, so he eventually chose someone else for the job. 

Visual Perception, A Clinical Orientation, 3rd Ed. Steven H. Schwartz. McGraw-Hill Professional, ISBN 0-07-141187-9

Also a very complete coverage of the topic; falls somewhere in between Wandell's and the Wade & Swanston books in terms of both depth and technical treatment. Has a very ophthalomological orientation; covers defects in visual perception in terms of both color and physical defects of the eye and lens as a light gathering mechanism. Also covers basic visual neurophysiology and information processing, but is light on the psychophysics. (If anyone is interested in a few references for psychophysics, let me know, I have at least a couple I can share. 

As a last aside, while visual perception and attention are my areas of training and teaching, psychophysics is one of my great loves, and as a trained psychophysicist, I'm a dying breed in the field of psychology. I see articles on attention in psychology journals regularly that have psychophysical confounds in them that call their conclusions into (sometimes serious) question. Unfortunately, psychophysics isn't considered all that important anymore, and people seem to think that neurophysiology has replaced it, but that simply isn't the case. Eventually, I hope to take some of the articles I've read that have the most egregious errors and replicate those studies with the proper psychophysical controls. (I admit to having an axe to grind in one case, I'm really hoping to blow a couple of people out of the water... :devil: )

Anyway, that's all for now. Hope some of this is helpful.


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## Esko

Ok, thanks for the answer. This discussion has been very interesting. I got in touch with 2 of the books you listed, not sure when I have the time to really study them though.

To sum up the key thing that was asked, the concept was:



Esko said:


> Lets have two leds with identical spread pattern and lumen output. One is blue, another is red. According to B0wz3rs answer, the red one is considered brighter (the perceived brightness).
> 
> Now, let's take two leds more, neutral white with identical spread pattern and identical lumen output with each other. And let's put them next to the blue and red led, thus creating warm white light and cool white light.
> 
> Before the addition, red was considered brighter by human eye. Is it now considered dimmer? Why?



And the answer was:



moozooh said:


> Because the cool white is white and not blue, and warm white is also white and not red. There is different receptor chemistry involved in perception of the two setups.





B0wz3r said:


> moozooh has pretty much hit the nail on the head as I understand all this. The issue, as I mentioned above, is the difference in the power spectrums involved. What moozooh said about the blending and the changed perception is correct as far as I know.



So, red appears to be brighter than blue, but white with lots of red appears to be dimmer than white with lots of blue, because a different sensing systems used. Ok.. I guess I still need read some more information about eye before really understanding the phenomena.

Anyway, I happened to notice your other answer in the other H502 thread. A little quote from it:



B0wz3r said:


> We see warmer tints better than cool tints because of the proportions of the different cones in the retina.



So, the warmer tints appear to be dimmer, but we still see them better? What does this mean?


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## Bolster

Esko said:


> So, the warmer tints appear to be dimmer, but we still see them better? What does this mean?



Ditto that question.


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## B0wz3r

The easiest way to answer the question is to explain the idea of what's called the acuity vs. sensitivity trade-off. This is going to involve some retinal anatomy, which is a bit complex, so brace yourselves...

The distribution density of rods and cones in the retina is inversely related; the vast majority of our cones lie within about 15º of the macula, a high density cone area at the center of the retina, where light is focused by the cornea and lens, with what's called the fovea, the center of the macula, being the focus point. Within the macula, there are no rods, only cones, and, there are only red and green cones in the macula as well. (Chromatic aberration in the lens bends blue light more than red, yellow, or green light, so it actually doesn't fall on the macula when you're looking right at something.) 

As you move away from the macula, the density of cones drops off rapidly, so that about 85% of all cones are within that 15º or so radius from the fovea. Accordingly, the density of rods increases as the density of cones decreases, until eventually, at the far peripheral edges of the retina, there are virtually no cones at all. Also, the retina doesn't cover the entire inside of the eyeball; it only extends to about 190º from side to side starting at the fovea, and about 110º from top to bottom, also starting at the retina. The rest of the inner surface of the eye is just connective tissue, blood vessels, and so on. 

_Edit: here's a chart showing receptor density by retinal location, central vs peripheral._







_Here's an image that shows the same thing, but also a sample of an electron micrograph showing what the distribution looks like._






Part of the wiring of the retina is that it has five major kinds of cells, two of which you already know about; rods and cones. There are also horizontal cells and bipolar cells (not manic depressive!) that interact with the receptors, modulating their activity and governing the signal they send to another major kind of cell called retinal ganglia. The last major type of visual retinal cell is called an amacrine cell; it interacts with ganglion cells much the same way as horizontal cells do with the receptors. An individual ganglion receives input from a particular number of receptors, based upon where it is in the retina. If it's in the fovea/macula area, it receives input from only one to three receptors, whereas if it's in the far periphery it can receive input from tens of thousands of receptors in some cases. 

_Here's a cross section showing the general structure of the neurons in the retina._






Now, there are two major kinds of ganglion cells; parvocellular, and magnocellular. The parvo cells receive input from cones only; they encode color and detail information in visual stimuli. Accordingly, they are most dense at the center of the retina, and decrease in density toward the periphery. I don't remember the exact numbers, 40 microns jumps to mind but I'd have to look it up to be sure, but parvo cells are very small and because they receive information from only a relatively small no. of receptors, they allow us to see fine detail. In fact, because of the wiring of the retina, it can even detect differences in stimuli that are less than the actual width of a receptor, because the wiring creates a competitive interpolation system that allows very fine grained spatial distinctions. That topic itself is pretty complex, so I'm not going to go into it further unless I need to. Anyway, the point is that cones and parvo cells are responsible for our ability to perceive color and acuity.

Magno cells receive input from rods, and some cones, and are most dense in the periphery, and there are practically none in the macula. Since their input is heavily from rods, they encode changes in brightness, and can do so very rapidly. They have a latency of no more than a couple of milliseconds. Additional wiring in the brain from these inputs that encode changes in brightness are how we detect motion. Since magno cells receive input from a LOT of receptors, they are very sensitive to small changes in brightness (and motion). 

The upshot of all this is that we have very good motion detection and sensitivity in the periphery of the retina because of the high ratio of receptors to ganglion cells, a characteristic called convergence. In the center of the retina, we have very good color and acuity because of very low convergence. So, as you move steadily away from the center of the retina, you have a trade-off in terms of sensitivity for acuity. That's why you can see faint stars out of the corner of your eye, but not when you look directly at them. In the periphery of your retina, you have a lot of rods sending info to the brain all converging on a few magno cells, but when you turn your eye to look right at it, the center of your retina doesn't have enough convergence to register the very faint light of the star.

There is also a maximum amount of stimulation that can be encoded by any receptor (or any neuron for that matter) and this is seen in that neurons have a maximum firing rate of about 1,000 Hz. More light than that can't be encoded and is for all intents and purposes ignore by the cones. However, there are other ganglion cells in the retina, konio-cells, that are light sensitive themselves (although they aren't receptors) and they sense larger changes in absolute intensity over longer periods of time. Now if I remember correctly, they also act as a gain filter for intensity; when we are experiencing a bright light, like say on a bright sunny day, they have the effect of turning the down the gain on the parvo cells. Have you ever noticed how on a bright sunny day, that colors tend to look a little washed out when you don't have sunglasses on? That is because of the action of the konio cells. They are also part of the system that sets our biological clock (circadian rhythm). That's one reason why we still tend to see a very bright cool tint as brighter sometimes, because the total gain coming into the retina is being registered, but not directly by all the receptors.

Another reason is that depth perception is based on nothing more than changes in brightness and color. When we see the edge of an object, what we're experiencing isn't the edge itself, but the retina encoding the brightness difference between the surface of the object and the object behind it. This gets extremely complicated and requires a discussion of the geometry of the visual field and the hierarchical organization of the neurons in the retina, lateral geniculate nucleus, and occipital cortex, but I'll skip that for now. The point is, since magno cells do receive some input from cones, and we have more red and green ones than blue ones, a warmer tinted light will excite them more, and create greater brightness differences at object edges and the like, enhancing our depth perception. That's why we tend to see textures and surface details better under a warmer than a cooler tint. Surface textures also create brightness differences, called texture gradients, that are an important part of depth and shape perception. In my perception class, I demonstrate this with a drawing of a cube I made in my charting program that has no lines around the edges of the objects I used to create the cube, but each object has a brightness gradient on it. The result is that you still see a cube, and can detect its orientation and direction, despite the fact there are no converging lines in the image. This is because the depth information is created from the brightness differences in the texture gradients. (I'll dig up some of my images of this stuff that I use, post them to my photobucket account, and then link to them here, once I'm done with this post. I'll put an addendum at the end to indicate when I've done that.)

_Here's the shaded cube. Again, when I drew this image in my graphics program, I deleted the stroke surrounding the object and added only the gradient fill, so there are literally no drawn lines in this image._






_Here's a cross section of the eye, just for reference._






Anyway, I know that's a lot of info... it's basically most of a whole unit in my sensory perception class, distilled into a nutshell. So in short, the main reason we still see a cool tint as brighter than a warm tint of equal objective intensity is for two reasons; 1) each light still has a broad power spectrum, so even the cool tint still has some warm wavelengths in it that stimulate the appropriate receptors, creating a greater total amount of stimulus input than a warm tinted light, which has most if not all those cooler wavelengths filtered out, and 2) we have a gain system that modulates our perception of brightness, (it can essentially be thought of as a 'volume' control), and brightness is the most basic way all visual stimuli are encoded, and almost all of what we perceive. The rich visual experience we have, comes almost exclusively from brightness differences in our visual environment, and how the visual system has evolved to take advantage of them. 

One last thing. You guys know well by now that the response of the visual system isn't linear, it's logarithmic (or exponential as the case may be, see my discussion of Stevens' Law in the other thread). Additionally, it doesn't encode absolute intensity, but relative intensity. This is why we see red as red and blue as blue under both bright and dim light. The relative brightnesses are constant across the illumination of a scene, so that when the light is low, the ratio of brightness difference is the same as when it's bright. This is a general phenomenon called brightness constancy, and color constancy is a special case of it, much like how it's been shown that Newtonian mechanics can be computationally modeled as a special case of Relativity.

Here's a link that gives a good basic explanation of Stevens' Law, which I like better than the Wikipedia page on it.

http://www.cis.rit.edu/people/faculty/montag/vandplite/pages/chap_6/ch6p10.html

Anyway, hope this answers your questions, if you've been patient enough to read this far.  I'll go dig up those images now, and once I post them to photobucket, I'll add in some links here where appropriate. If there's one thing I've learned in 7 years of college teaching, it's that students learn better with lots of pretty pictures.


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## mobi

Thank you. Technical, clear and interesting presentation.


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## Bolster

Outstanding. It's a shame this great info is buried in post #1232 of a thread on the H502. Recommend making a new thread called "Anatomy and Physiology that Every Flashoholic Needs to Know" (or something like it). It would make for a truly righteous sticky.


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## Rat6P

True, maybe a PM to the mods??


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## B0wz3r

Glad it was helpful guys. 

I've posted a fair amount about this stuff here, but honestly can't remember where it all went. I've also posted quite a bit about night vision and dark adaptation issues as well.

Probably the easiest thing to do is simply go to my user profile and check my list of posts to find the previous stuff I've written about all this.


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## Esko

Yes, thanks indeed. A nice in-depth view on subject in a nutshell. I guess I have to read it a few times to get a better picture. Might ask more then (or thank again if everything was clear). Been busy I think...

Regarding the lost data issue, many subforums have a sticky thread titled "Threads of interest". I think that the post could be listed and linked there (either in the headlamp forum thread, or in general flashlight discussion or general Light discussion subforum threads). Of course, a dedicated perception thread could be of high value, too.


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## B0wz3r

Esko said:


> Yes, thanks indeed. A nice in-depth view on subject in a nutshell. I guess I have to read it a few times to get a better picture. Might ask more then (or thank again if everything was clear). Been busy I think...
> 
> Regarding the lost data issue, many subforums have a sticky thread titled "Threads of interest". I think that the post could be listed and linked there (either in the headlamp forum thread, or in general flashlight discussion or general Light discussion subforum threads). Of course, a dedicated perception thread could be of high value, too.



I'd be willing to start/participate in a dedicated visual perception thread, or even just one about night vision or CRI issues. A few months ago I made a suggestion to one of the mods about it, but they didn't seem too keen on the idea. 

On the other hand, a specific sub-forum might be the best way to approach this/these issues. Not sure where it would go in the forums though, because while it's certainly important as a topic for us, it's probably only tangential to what the owner/mods want for the forum as a whole.

Anyway, if someone is willing to handle the work of getting a sub-forum or even just a sticky thread put somewhere in one of the already existing sub-forums, I'd be willing to go back through my post history and look for some of my previous ones on this to use as starter for some new threads about these topics.


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## Bolster

B0wz3r said:


> I'd be willing to start/participate in a dedicated visual perception thread, or even just one about night vision or CRI issues. A few months ago I made a suggestion to one of the mods about it, but they didn't seem too keen on the idea.



I don't think that's how it works, B. I've had several posts sticked, and what seems to be the process, is that you just start the thread. Then, if people ask for it to get sticked, it does. Even if it's not stickied, it would be great to have an all-in-one thread resource on "the physiological psychology of vision" or "the visual perception thread" or whatever you call it. (I would title it: "What Every Flasholohic Needs to Know about Visual Perception.")

Heck just today I was searching all over for the 670 nm red and NVG discussion. Finally found it and copied it to a file on my HD, but would be handier to have it in an easily accessible thread here on CPF. 

What I would recommend is, make it easy on yourself, just find good posts from previous threads on perceptual psychology (which are scattered all over) and put them into a single. No need to re-invent the wheel unless you want to. 

I would vote against a separate sub-forum to start. I would consider a sub-forum only if the thread on visual perception gets so busy that there's a clear need for it. Start small with a single thread. 

If you post it in another subforum, please let me know so I can visit it. I mostly hang in headlamps and LEDs flashlights so would miss it otherwise.

So start a thread. If it's as good as your other material, you can bet I'll be one of the members asking the mods to sticky it.


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## B0wz3r

Bolster said:


> I don't think that's how it works, B. I've had several posts sticked, and what seems to be the process, is that you just start the thread. Then, if people ask for it to get sticked, it does. Even if it's not stickied, it would be great to have an all-in-one thread resource on "the physiological psychology of vision" or "the visual perception thread" or whatever you call it. (I would title it: "What Every Flasholohic Needs to Know about Visual Perception.")
> 
> Heck just today I was searching all over for the 670 nm red and NVG discussion. Finally found it and copied it to a file on my HD, but would be handier to have it in an easily accessible thread here on CPF.
> 
> What I would recommend is, make it easy on yourself, just find good posts from previous threads on perceptual psychology (which are scattered all over) and put them into a single. No need to re-invent the wheel unless you want to.
> 
> I would vote against a separate sub-forum to start. I would consider a sub-forum only if the thread on visual perception gets so busy that there's a clear need for it. Start small with a single thread.
> 
> If you post it in another subforum, please let me know so I can visit it. I mostly hang in headlamps and LEDs flashlights so would miss it otherwise.
> 
> So start a thread. If it's as good as your other material, you can bet I'll be one of the members asking the mods to sticky it.



Okay. I'll set some time aside and start digging through my post history and see what I can find. 

Another thing I can do is start a thread where I'll take copies of my lecture slides and notes, transform them into a format that can be posted here, and start making posts with that material. That way, I could actually do it systematically, and cover a lot of material at the same time. Right now, I've got about 15 complete lectures on visual perception as part of my general perception class. 

I also have taught a class specifically on visual perception, though it's a bit different. In that class, while it largely parallels the coverage of vision in my general sensory perception class, I go into a bit more depth into some of the psychophysical and neurophysiological topics, and I also have an entire third of the class devoted to visual attention as well. I'll consider that one for posting too.


----------



## skycamnz

I'm licking my lips in anticipation...


----------



## Cataract

I haven't visited this thread for a while, only to discover it's become a nerd-o-thon. Extremely interesting information, Bowz3r and +100 for a dedicated thread, this info deserves to be a sticky.


----------



## Bolster

B0wz3r said:


> Another thing I can do is start a thread where I'll take copies of my lecture slides and notes, transform them into a format that can be posted here, and start making posts with that material.



Truly above and beyond the call of duty, and it sounds great. Waiting in eager anticipation.


----------



## Quigath

I'm wondering about the color of the different 502 flavors at lower levels.

My comparison lights are an original 501 and a 4sevens Q-mini AA. Both disappoint me every time I use them on lower levels as being bluish to lavender in color. Almost all color gets washed out on the things I'm trying to see and they look flat or something.






The fascinating discussion in the last few pages on color and brightness perception is great, but can it actually help me choose which 502 light I'd be most happy with?
Has anyone tested and compared the color-rendition of these 502 lights at low levels? 
Which holds closest to their rated CRI and CCT on low power?


----------



## moozooh

Unfortunately, all LEDs lose much of their color rendition capability when severely underdriven. I believe the warmest one (4000 K) is your best bet for 2 lm and below.


----------



## Bolster

Quigath said:


> I'm wondering about the color of the different 502 flavors at lower levels.



The H502c would be your best defense against blue/purple low-level output, as it's the warmest. I have not noticed any blue-shift on mine at lowest levels. 

If you are trying to preserve night vision, then the light should be low enough that you don't see *any* color. You want your cones to stop working, basically.


----------



## Quigath

Bolster said:


> If you are trying to preserve night vision, then the light should be low enough that you don't see *any* color. You want your cones to stop working, basically.



No, not really trying to preserve night vision here. I just want to have a little extra light in dark situations without wasting battery power on full.
Love the discussion above on the eye's natural gain in low light to perceive the same as in brighter light. My idea is to use lower flashlight levels, and have my eye compensate; but it's not worth it if the light output is low quality.

My concern with the 502c is that it's published runtime @lumens is just slightly less than my 501. I know the light quality is better with the c but does that actually mean that I can use a lower power setting and still see the same amount of detail (is perception the right word here?) as I can now with my 501?
For example: is [email protected] as good as [email protected]?


----------



## Bolster

Totally agree with you on letting the pupil do some of the work. Many flashololics aren't happy until their pupils are the size of pinheads. I'm happy to use lights in conjunction with a dilated pupil. 



Quigath said:


> lumens is just slightly less...is [email protected] as good as [email protected]?



The differences you are mentioning here are flirting with (or well into) the unnoticeable range in use, due to the nonlinear way the eye perceives brightness. See item #5 here. All due respect, but this is far beyond what anyone could determine for you. You're in a range that's so subjective, only you can guess at differences of interactions between small lumen changes and tints that may be imperceptible to others. I have both 501 and 502c but would not feel at all confident making a comparison for you as the sensitivity required would be large, and the decision itself, very subjective. Possibly even changing from one individual light to the other--for example, my two H501w's do not have the same tint.


----------



## B0wz3r

I'll get started on converting some of my lectures into posts this week. I'll start a new thread for it. Anyone have any preferences/suggestions about which forum to post in?


----------



## Esko

moozooh said:


> Unfortunately, all LEDs lose much of their color rendition capability when severely underdriven. I believe the warmest one (4000 K) is your best bet for 2 lm and below.



The leds lose color rendition capability? Or did you mean that eyes lose color recognition capability in low light, due to the gradual shift from cones to rods?



B0wz3r said:


> I'd be willing to start/participate in a dedicated visual perception thread, or even just one about night vision or CRI issues. A few months ago I made a suggestion to one of the mods about it, but they didn't seem too keen on the idea.



It would be really strange if this was their attitude concerning visual perception thread. I suppose it was just a wrong procedure, as said by Bolster. This kind of thread would really be valuable for CPF community, and add to the value of the forum group in whole, too. I must also say that if I was a university professor, it is unlikely that I would be posting my hard worked lecture slides to any discussion forum for free. I might create a homepage (under the university) and release the information in somewhat popularized format on my own name, though. So, Thank You Very Much already. Really looking forward to this. :thumbsup:

Regarding the best forum, not quite sure. I suppose the general light discussion might be "the most right" place for it.


----------



## Harry999

I thought I would post to say my H502d arrived today. I am really pleased with the tint and the beam pattern. It is the same neutral tint as the Mako AAA I have which I love. 

I am now looking forward to the SC52 & dare I hope the SC52d? I have to add that only Zebralight is persuading me to buy production flashlights again. That says it all from me.


----------



## Darien

I know I'm very late to the party but ordered my first headlight today, the plain 502. I've been wanting to try one at work for a long time now but never took the plunge until today. My son made me do it! :ironic: Looking forward to all the flood I can get up close.


----------



## moozooh

Esko said:


> The leds lose color rendition capability?



Indeed they do. The effect you see when an underpowered NW LED starts looking more bluish the less current is going into it is essentially what happens: the emitted light becomes bluer, thus losing the rendering capability in other parts of the spectrum. Rebels' CRI is also rated at 85°C these days, so there's no guarantee of it being up to spec when the LED is at room temperature. I've spent the last hour trying to find the document that had the chart depicting the CRI in different conditions (I think it was one of Philips LumiLEDs' datasheets, but damned if I remember which one), but no dice; you don't have to take my word for granted, but it is very logical regardless of visual perception.


----------



## B0wz3r

Esko said:


> The leds lose color rendition capability? Or did you mean that eyes lose color recognition capability in low light, due to the gradual shift from cones to rods?
> 
> 
> 
> It would be really strange if this was their attitude concerning visual perception thread. I suppose it was just a wrong procedure, as said by Bolster. This kind of thread would really be valuable for CPF community, and add to the value of the forum group in whole, too. I must also say that if I was a university professor, it is unlikely that I would be posting my hard worked lecture slides to any discussion forum for free. I might create a homepage (under the university) and release the information in somewhat popularized format on my own name, though. So, Thank You Very Much already. Really looking forward to this. :thumbsup:
> 
> Regarding the best forum, not quite sure. I suppose the general light discussion might be "the most right" place for it.


I have to admit, I do have this concern. I put a lot of work into my lecture slides for both clarity and brevity; those two qualities are often at odds in any kind of written composition. That said, there are a lot of resources on the web already with respect to this. Perhaps the best thing for me to do would be to dig around and see what I can find and post some links. I can add some of my own stuff here and there, as well as make commentary on the other resources I can find.



moozooh said:


> Indeed they do. The effect you see when an underpowered NW LED starts looking more bluish the less current is going into it is essentially what happens: the emitted light becomes bluer, thus losing the rendering capability in other parts of the spectrum. Rebels' CRI is also rated at 85°C these days, so there's no guarantee of it being up to spec when the LED is at room temperature. I've spent the last hour trying to find the document that had the chart depicting the CRI in different conditions (I think it was one of Philips LumiLEDs' datasheets, but damned if I remember which one), but no dice; you don't have to take my word for granted, but it is very logical regardless of visual perception.


Thanks for this info; I have long suspected this is the case, but haven't ever been certain about it, or how to go about finding out more about it. I'm a perceptual/physiological psychologist, not an engineer.


----------



## B0wz3r

On a (much) different note, I'm getting the bug for a new light, and I also have a legit need for another headlamp, so I'm putting the 502 up to the top of my get-list. Still not sure if I should go with the C or the D, but I'm starting to lean toward the D.


----------



## Buckley

B0wz3r said:


> On a (much) different note, I'm getting the bug for a new light, and I also have a legit need for another headlamp, so I'm putting the 502 up to the top of my get-list. Still not sure if I should go with the C or the D, but I'm starting to lean toward the D.



I, too, am toying with the notion of adding a 502D to my collection, BOwz3r. Consequently, I look forward to your review.


----------



## Bolster

B0wz3r said:


> On a (much) different note, I'm getting the bug for a new light, and I also have a legit need for another headlamp, so I'm putting the 502 up to the top of my get-list. Still not sure if I should go with the C or the D, but I'm starting to lean toward the D.



That's cool (no pun), but I recollect you are allergic to greenish tint. I also recollect several reports that the outer rim of the 502d went a little greenish. If that's OK with you, go for it.

I read someone reporting a hint of green even on the 502c, but I can't see it on mine.

SO, Esko talked you out of your visual perception post, did he? I'll have to remember to thank him with some ripe tomatoes next time I see him.


----------



## Esko

Bolster said:


> SO, Esko talked you out of your visual perception post, did he? I'll have to remember to thank him with some ripe tomatoes next time I see him.



:huh2:

Take it easy, man... I guess you are just a bit impatient now.  He didn't say there would be no perception thread. And for sure, I didn't suggest that. I just wanted to tell how much I (we) appreciate the contributions. Not everyone would be ready to give their hard worked materials for all for free and on the other hand, if the material was produced under employment relationship, the organization might have something to say to it, too. Therefore, if he after all changed his mind and decided to educate us some other way, it would be very much appreciated also. This is just what I wanted to say.

That said, I am very much looking forward to the visual perception thread, too. With the slides or not.


----------



## RedForest UK

Wow, this seems to have turned into an interesting (if slightly off-topic) thread since I've last visited it. If anyone's really interested in the psychophysics and info on the visual system I remember a thread in which me and Bowzer had a short discussion on similar topics..

Ok, I did a search and here's a link: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-New-HDS-Hi-Cri-pictures-and-beam-shots/page2

It makes me wonder just how much interesting but irrelevant (to the thread topic) information is buried in old threads where you would never think to look.



I did have a relevant reason for visiting the this thread though anyway. Can anyone confirm if the access to the H502's hidden H2 modes (via 6 double clicks) has any time limit/reset, or can the 6 double clicks be over any period of time? 

I just find it annoying if I am cycling between H1 and H2 intermittently over 10-15 minutes and always end up in the programming modes. But if zebra has patched that behaviour out in the latest circuits I'd be much more likely to pick up an H502 or SC52.


----------



## Swede74

RedForest UK said:


> Can anyone confirm if the access to the H502's hidden H2 modes (via 6 double clicks) has any time limit/reset, or can the 6 double clicks be over any period of time?
> 
> I just find it annoying if I am cycling between H1 and H2 intermittently over 10-15 minutes and always end up in the programming modes. But if zebra has patched that behaviour out in the latest circuits I'd be much more likely to pick up an H502 or SC52.



I just posted my findings in this thread

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?344890-Zebralight-SC52/page10

where the double-click / time limit issue is currently being discussed.
_
"On my SC51 there is a time limit - if I double-click six times the seventh double-click has to come within 10-15 seconds, otherwise the software resets the count and I can toggle between the programmed H1 and H2 again.

The same goes for my H502 on high, but surprisingly, when I double-click my way into programming mode for the low levels, it seems as though the count is NOT reset after 10-15 seconds - even if I leave the light alone for five minutes after six double-clicks, the seventh takes me into programming mode.

I was trying to watch 'The Island' while doing this so my concentration was not at its best, but I'm thinking that Zebralight may have done some minor tweaking to the SC51 software that hasn't been announced on their website / spreadsheet, so there could be two or more versions out there. (Mine is not the updated version with all levels current controlled)"_

Edit: I linked to page 10, but the first post regarding double-clicks is #268 at page 9.


----------



## Buckley

My H502d arrived a short while ago, and I took it down the our dark basement to try it out. I am VERY pleased with the beam pattern and the tint, which appears to my eye to be beautifully neutral. L1 or L2 seems like it would be perfect for the dark-adapted eye, depending upon your light sensitivity. M1 or M2 would be just about right for reading, and H1 or H2 should cover the bill for most anything else. All in all, a VERY nice piece of kit.

As for the electronic switch, I like the one on the 502 much better than the one on my SC60. It seems more predictable, and therefore easier to manipulate.

Now, if Zebralight comes out with the H602 with similar beam and tint, but with a somewhat higher high and longer runtimes, I don't think I will be able to live without it.


----------



## Elitl

This is my best flood light. It suffers of the dreaded green halo, but it´s not a big problem for me, and i believe the beam is even beautiful.

I really love mini flood lights in AA format. The H502 with a few friends


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## saypat

I see my Ultrafire UF-H2b there. I love that light. At time I use it as a bike light on my bike. I love a floody beam as it appears you do also. I love Zebralights but don't own any, but not for lack of want. I may just get me the H502. Sell me on it?

thanks,
patrick


----------



## Elitl

I honestly believe that H502 is, at present time, the best option in AA flood format. However, I prefer to mix flood and spot for biking, but it´s only my personal taste. 


The UF-H2b has a great interface and admits 14500 but it loses in beam angle and in full power on NiMh or alkalines. The magnet is a nice touch. The H502 has better tint, a more complex but more useful interface (really bright high and a great low low) and nice extras like the gitd "reflector" and voltage indicator.



I can share some pics of my H502 so you can consider it better.























Otherwise you can consider too the Zebra H51F. It has a bit more "throw" than H502 (for a flood light) and almost the power of its AA sister the H502.


----------



## Gregozedobe

My H502d arrived today and I'm impressed, it is the first High CRI light that I really like. I have several others but they just didn't do much for me, but this one I like :twothumbs

About the only criticism is that the flood beam is just a little too wide (same as my std CW H502) and when wearing it as a headlamp I have to adjust it so the bottom of the beam doesn't shine too low and produce glare in my eyes, particularly if I'm wearing glasses. My H501 was better in that respect, but I like everything else about my H502s.


----------



## Gregozedobe

I was asked the following by PM, but thought my answers may be of interest to others, so I am answering here.



> Do you own both the reg H502 and the H502D? Would you mind sharing a bit about them. I am going to purchase one, just not sure which one yet? Tints? Brightness?


Yes, I own both.

Note that colour perception is a very idiosyncratic thing, so the following are how I see these two lights, others will see tints differently to me. I have a fairly strong dislike of noticeably green tints. 

The CW 502 tint is definitely cooler than the H502d. The CW H502 seems to be just "white" (no hint of green), while the H502d is slightly creamy (but not really yellow or apricot). Colours (especially reds and browns and greens) seem to "pop" quite a bit more with the H502d. The beam on my SC51c is distinctly warmer again (more yellow with maybe a hint of green).

As far as maximum brightness goes, the CW H502 is a clear winner, as you'd expect from the specifications; CW H502 H1 is 260 lumens, while the H502d H1 is only 170 lumens. In fact the H502 H2 level (160 lm) very similar in brightness to the H502d H1 (170 lm).

If I look very carefully I can see a slightly brighter area in the centre of the H502 beam (not a proper hotspot, just a smallish area with slightly more lux), whereas the H502d beam is more even. Mind you, I didn't notice this until doing this comparison, and I've had my H502 for a while now, so it isn't very obvious.

Any other questions ?


----------



## saypat

appreciate this Greg, thanks!

patrick


----------



## B0wz3r

saypat said:


> appreciate this Greg, thanks!
> 
> patrick


Indeed!

With respect to my starting a visual perception thread(s), I'm not opposed to doing so, but it would be a lot of work that I'd have to make time for.

I think the most logical way to do it would be to do it 'lecture style'. I'd prefer to do it with dedicated threads for each installment/topic, so the discussion for each would be encapsulated. Otherwise, it'd be very difficult to separate new info I present from other topics I post, and the comment tracking would get rapidly out of hand. 

This raises the question, then, of how will the mods deal with this, and how will we deal with it to make accessing that stuff easier? Without a separate forum, or at least help from a mod making the threads I post sticky, we're again faced with a continuity/access problem.

There is also the issue of image hosting. The simplest thing I can think of is to create a dedicated account on one of the photo sharing services and use image links in the posts. The best solution, though, would be to be able to host the images directly on CPF, but again, that's an issue that requires the mods/owner to give approval and get involved in the process. As I said, I'm happy to do the posts and all, but I want to wash my hands of any tech issues other than uploading images.

Lastly, is the issue of completeness of content. For my lectures, I require students to do the assigned reading for class before lecture, and I don't cover exactly everything in the reading I assign, or in exactly the depth given in the text(s) I use. Unless those interested want to buy a copy of the book I use, it means I'll have to do a lot more writing for the posts. That now brings up the issue of the value of the work I contribute and the time involved, as well as it constituting my own intellectual property, and so on.

Don't get me wrong though, it's not that I'm opposed to contributing. Logistics and technical issues aside, I'd have to decide on how much to post, how much I'd need to add to make the content accessible and understandable so the book wouldn't be needed, and how that's going to impact my other work. That's something I'll still need to think about. I'll get back to you with more on this after I've had some time to think about it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter, better considered. Let me know what you guys think about this.


----------



## rojos

I think it makes more sense to do it as a Tumblr blog. That would give you more control and you wouldn't have to worry about the mods or losing your work if the servers go down again.


----------



## Cataract

rojos is onto something here... how about using the blog feature to separate topics as you see fit and group all the blog links in a thread? That way the content is easily accessed and all questions can be adressed directly inside the appropriate topic or in the general thread. You can take your time building the whole thing in word before posting the final result, there is no emergency, but it definitely would be a great contribution to the forum.


----------



## Bolster

I think it's sounding more and more like an online course! Will there be tests? 

Maybe you should hit up your university for development costs and charge us tuition! (Only half joking).


----------



## B0wz3r

I hadn't thought about a blog actually, that probably would be the best way to do it. I hate to sound selfish, but it really is a time issue for me. I've never done anything like that before. I've certainly used various online systems for record keeping, disseminating course materials, assignments, and the like, but I have no experience at all with a blog. I'm sure there'd be a learning curve with the software for me, and that would add to the time commitment. 

I'll have to think on this some more... it's one of those things that could take on a life of it's own, or it could end up withering and dying soon after it starts if I can't make the time necessary for it. Neither of those options sounds good to me, as I have a hard enough time as it is completing the work I currently have to deal with, and I don't want to create expectations for the project that are too high and not end up meeting them. In short, many of these issues boil down to academic integrity.

Add to the mix that I'm currently looking for a new job (I'm not at all happy with my current institution), so I'm hesitant I could successfully pull off such a project. Aside from my more mundane responsibilities of kids, contributing to housework, and so on, I'm starting back to work on a research manuscript I've let sit for too long as I really do need to get it published, and I'm looking at having to change textbooks for at least two of my classes for next year. That means revising or rewriting my entire lecture base and assignments for those courses, which is a LOT of work.

I think for now, the best thing for me to do is simply to continue to offer my input here when I can. I've registered my email address with my profile on CPF, so if anyone has any questions, wants any info about something, and so on, people can email me directly. You guys can also let me know of threads here that you might like me to comment on, as I don't spend nearly as much time here as I used to. So, I could pop in from time to time, and by request, and post some quick brain-farts when asked. In a few months, perhaps next summer or fall, when I'm in a place I'm happy with and won't have as many demands on me, (and frankly, could investigate the possibility of some institutional support) I can think more seriously about such a project.

Okay. Whew... :duh2: That said, I'll be ordering a 502D in the next few days. My wife and I are planning a camping trip down south over the Thanksgiving holiday. We're hoping to find somewhere out in the high desert to spend a few days, and I'm really looking forward to having some time in nature and with my kids. Practice my primitive fire-making, shelter building, and cordage skills I learned from the outdoors/survival classes I've taken, and so on. The 502D is going to live in my adventure/survival pack, my old trusty Mountainsmith Approach 3.0. It'll accompany my HCRI QAA2 as a primary light. I am _*so*_ looking forward to having a new light, and getting out into the wilderness!


----------



## carbonita

Gizmodo rating of LED lights posted today. No spoilers on the top pick, other than this thread. 

http://gizmodo.com/5952940/the-best-led-flashlight


----------



## davidt1

carbonita said:


> Gizmodo rating of LED lights posted today. No spoilers on the top pick, other than this thread.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5952940/the-best-led-flashlight



Maybe they should have tested headlamps against headlamps? The H502 would probably stand out even more because the design lens itself to other uses that other headlamps can't do.


----------



## eh4

B0wz3r, a blog would be great. We could cite any parts of it and discuss here and you could sieve through the discussions for thoughts and clarifications to improve the blog. Wordpress might be a good option too.


----------



## Planz

Gregozedobe said:


> I was asked the following by PM, but thought my answers may be of interest to others, so I am answering here.
> 
> 
> Yes, I own both.
> 
> Note that colour perception is a very idiosyncratic thing, so the following are how I see these two lights, others will see tints differently to me. I have a fairly strong dislike of noticeably green tints.
> 
> The CW 502 tint is definitely cooler than the H502d. The CW H502 seems to be just "white" (no hint of green), while the H502d is slightly creamy (but not really yellow or apricot). Colours (especially reds and browns and greens) seem to "pop" quite a bit more with the H502d. The beam on my SC51c is distinctly warmer again (more yellow with maybe a hint of green).
> 
> As far as maximum brightness goes, the CW H502 is a clear winner, as you'd expect from the specifications; CW H502 H1 is 260 lumens, while the H502d H1 is only 170 lumens. In fact the H502 H2 level (160 lm) very similar in brightness to the H502d H1 (170 lm).
> 
> If I look very carefully I can see a slightly brighter area in the centre of the H502 beam (not a proper hotspot, just a smallish area with slightly more lux), whereas the H502d beam is more even. Mind you, I didn't notice this until doing this comparison, and I've had my H502 for a while now, so it isn't very obvious.
> 
> Any other questions ?



Hi Greg,
Do you have pictures of electrical wires with different colors taken with CW 502 and H502d?
I'm wondering if CW502 is able to distinguish the colors of electrical wires clearly.
I'm not sure if ambient fluorescent lighting plays a part and I assume there is some ambient fluorescent lighting in conjuction with the zebra light. It'll be nice to see the colors without ambient lighting as well; i.e. just the zebra light.
Thanks.


----------



## Bolster

Not exactly the same, but check the photo in my sig line. The H502d would not be as warm, of course.

Electrical work is why I'm trying to switch everything over to CRI.


----------



## Gregozedobe

Planz said:


> Hi Greg,
> Do you have pictures of electrical wires with different colors taken with CW 502 and H502d?
> I'm wondering if CW502 is able to distinguish the colors of electrical wires clearly.
> I'm not sure if ambient fluorescent lighting plays a part and I assume there is some ambient fluorescent lighting in conjuction with the zebra light. It'll be nice to see the colors without ambient lighting as well; i.e. just the zebra light.
> Thanks.


Hello Planz,

Firstly, welcome to CPF, lots of useful info and helpful people here.

I'm afraid I don't have the technology to post photos, but I have a huge mess of wires of all sorts of colours sitting in a big pile under my house (I'm a bit of a pack rat and tend to keep anything I think may be of use in the future) so if you can describe which particular colours you want to distinguish from each other I'll try out both the CW H502 and the H502d for you and report back. The "mess" is under a large flourescent light so I can do it with and without ambient fluorescent lighting as well.

Let me know which colours you want me to compare (note that this will be how I perceive the colours, which may be different to how you see them).


----------



## burntoshine

I received my H502d yesterday and took it with me through the woods and to the river. I often have fires along the river in the cold season and have found some great secluded spots that I bike to... 

My thoughts:

I love the wide "beam" it puts out. I didn't notice any beam artifacts at all. The pocket clip is super fast & easy to remove and quite adequate. The lowest low is rather awesome. I love really low lows and the lowest programmable L2 is the lowest low I have seen in person; very cool! And I've always appreciated how ZL manages to fit everything in a smaller size than I thought was possible. They're quite clever like that. I like everything about the lamp in general but I just can't get past the tint; it's way too cool for me. 

I am sending it back. I'm going to wait around for a warmer high cri tinted SC52 or a neutral XML SC52. The neutral XML that ZL used in the SC600w and H600w is really nice and I hope they make the SC52 with that exact emitter. I'm more excited about the SC52, anyway. I guess my H501w will still be my flood champ for close-up tasks. It was in constant use when I rewired our basement. I don't understand why ZL didn't try a high cri XPG. My HDS high cri XPG is the best flashlight tint I have ever seen! I have other lights with high cri XPGs and they are nearly as great. I'm not yet familiar with color temperature and how it relates to what I perceive in tint, but experiences like this are forcing me to understand. No more 5000K for me. I might try selling it on the MP instead of waiting for ZL's return process.

Great headlight! I just need a warmer high cri tint or maybe a nice neutral.


----------



## Planz

Gregozedobe said:


> Hello Planz,
> 
> Firstly, welcome to CPF, lots of useful info and helpful people here.
> 
> I'm afraid I don't have the technology to post photos, but I have a huge mess of wires of all sorts of colours sitting in a big pile under my house (I'm a bit of a pack rat and tend to keep anything I think may be of use in the future) so if you can describe which particular colours you want to distinguish from each other I'll try out both the CW H502 and the H502d for you and report back. The "mess" is under a large flourescent light so I can do it with and without ambient fluorescent lighting as well.
> 
> Let me know which colours you want me to compare (note that this will be how I perceive the colours, which may be different to how you see them).



Thanks Greg,
I'm not sure where my earlier post went so sorry if this is a double post.
After reading your reply, I think to make things simple, what would be of practical use would be if you could just shine the H502 onto the 'mess' and see if you could differentiate all the colors. Your point about different people with different perception is taken. 
Thanks for your help.


----------



## Planz

Bolster said:


> Not exactly the same, but check the photo in my sig line. The H502d would not be as warm, of course.
> 
> Electrical work is why I'm trying to switch everything over to CRI.



Thanks for your feedback Bolster,
What I am aiming for is that as long as I can pick out the colors, I do not need accurate color rendition.
This is because other than picking out electrical wires, I need to see fine details and I think (I'm not sure) cold white would make things 'clearer'.


----------



## Gregozedobe

Planz said:


> ..... After reading your reply, I think to make things simple, what would be of practical use would be if you could just shine the H502 onto the 'mess' and see if you could differentiate all the colors. Your point about different people with different perception is taken.



I've just been doing some shining on the "mess" of wires and noticed the following:

For distinguishing between med-dark green and med-dark blue the CW H502 was slightly better than the H502d (not by a huge amount, but enough for me to notice), while for most other colours (and particularly colours with a red component like pink, orange, purple, brown etc) the H502d was generally either better or in some instances a lot better. I guess it depends on which colours it is most important for you to distinguish between.

NB As far as I know I am not blue/green colour blind.


----------



## Planz

Gregozedobe said:


> I've just been doing some shining on the "mess" of wires and noticed the following:
> 
> For distinguishing between med-dark green and med-dark blue the CW H502 was slightly better than the H502d (not by a huge amount, but enough for me to notice), while for most other colours (and particularly colours with a red component like pink, orange, purple, brown etc) the H502d was generally either better or in some instances a lot better. I guess it depends on which colours it is most important for you to distinguish between.
> 
> NB As far as I know I am not blue/green colour blind.



Thanks Greg. I did something similar with a Joby cold white and I could generally make out the difference in colors but I do not have a warm light to compare with. For my application, as long as I can pick out the different colors, it will serve my purpose but I think someday, I might just go for something like a H502d just for the fun of it.


----------



## fnj

Very excited about the 502d or other d Zebras. I like high CRI (only a crazy person wouldn't), but I like high color temperature too. 5000 is good; 6000+ would be better but we're up against the limits of practicality here.


----------



## Quigath

I'm assuming these color distinction tests are being done with the lights on their highest settings. Does the color differentiation change at all with lower lumens? The low setting for example.
I can't stand it when I'm doing close up work like soldering or something and I have to blind myself in order to distinguish colors decently.


----------



## Gregozedobe

Quigath said:


> I'm assuming these color distinction tests are being done with the lights on their highest settings. Does the color differentiation change at all with lower lumens? The low setting for example.
> I can't stand it when I'm doing close up work like soldering or something and I have to blind myself in order to distinguish colors decently.



I tried it with the M1 setting on both lights (anything less isn't really bright enough for my old eyes unless I am so close I can no longer focus), no shift tint that I could notice compared with H2 on the CW H502 and H1 on the H502d (so that they both had the same lumens). For soldering I prefer my nose and mouth well away from where the fumes are coming from.


----------



## Quigath

Thanks for the quick test on the lower setting.
Yes, the fumes; I think I just hold my breath.


----------



## moshow9

Can somebody post a comparison tint beamshot between the H502c and H502d? Pretty please.


----------



## mellowman

too bad they didn't put a nichia 219 4500 92+ cri led into one. imagine how many they would have sold and no more 502c vs 502d questions.


----------



## B0wz3r

I got my 502d last week, the day before Thanksgiving. It's a very nice little light, and it's my first true full flood light.

I really like the tint; very much a true neutral, with just a hint of warmth to it. It looks faintly like it may have some yellowishness, or maybe a tiny bit of greenishness to it, but I don't see it every time I inspect the beam in a white wall hunt... Overall, it's a very well balanced neutral, and I can see a small difference in color rendering compared to my Spark ST5-190nw. In comparison to the 502d, my H51w is much warmer... it's clearly more of a peachy tint than the 502. I'm sure the 502c is warmer, and while I do like warm tints, I decided to get the D because I wanted the extra brightness.

The brightness, for a pure flood, is amazing!  On H1 it easily lights up an average size room, and M1 is plenty bright for hiking at night, and M2 is enough for moonless/dark night conditions. The peripheral vision it gives is really amazing, and easily exceeds any other headlamp or torch I have. Positioned at a similar angle to my H51w, it even covers some of my front. At the same time, the breadth of the beam is also it's biggest drawback; I wear glasses, and I get a lot of glare in them unless I tip the light up a fair amount, enough that the beam doesn't illuminate the front of my shirt. But, then it's pointing straight ahead, and right into the face of anyone nearby. I find the beam to be too wide for reading in bed, as its spread easily overlaps the edges of any book, and lights up the rest of the room.

For these reasons, for my uses/preferences at least, it's not as suitable as my H51w (which I have DC-fix on), for general use. However, I have found the perfect home for it on the front of my bicycle helmet, under the visor. I took an extra bracket I had and strapped it on with a velcro tie. It holds the 502 perfectly, with no play or wobble at all. Being on the very front of my helmet and under the visor allows me to angle it down enough that it doesn't shine in others' eyes, and gives great illumination directly in front of me and beneath me. I prefer a floody light on my handlebars too, aimed straight at the 10' or so of the ground in front of my bike (and I also use a throwy light on top of my helmet for seeing downrange), and I may try the 502d on a two-fish block on my handlebars for that. But, as it is, it's an excellent light for helmet mounting for up close lighting. I imagine it'd be a good close-up light for a caver as well.

Anyway, that's just a quick report of my initial impressions and use of the light so far. Hope this is helpful.


----------



## Bolster

Bowz: 

In all honesty, it doesn't sound like the H502d really fills the bill for you. Knowing your tint preference, I'm a little surprised that you went for the 20% more lumens (a borderline difference in real-world seeing, at best) over your preferred tint. Glad you found a use for it. 

It seems we are racking up quite a list of complaints about the 120 degree beam. You already know my opinion (I like it, but for work--I also wear glasses but am not bothered by beam spill into the glasses very often. OTOH, I'm also quite content with an 80 beam, too) but there are enough people having problems with the beam width, it seems to me that the onus is on Zebralight to make the beam modifiable. 

I realize I sound like a broken record here...but honestly, making a threaded bezel is not such a huge manufacturing hurdle, and would pay back huge dividends for users...Spark has made screw bezels a standard on their entire floody line. 

One additional advantage to a screw bezel...it can be made watertight with an o-ring (like Spark does). I've long suspected that Zebra's press-fit lens (or press-fit lens/bezel combo) is on the skimpy side for waterproofing. While I've not had a leak myself, at this point I assume that's because I'm not out in the rain or waves much. And we've all seen the reports from those who have had water ingress around the bezel/lens. This is a constant drag on ZLs reputation. 

ZL could kill THREE birds with one stone: (1) make the beam modifiable, (2) sell an additional line of beam modification accessories for beam width and tint, and (3) put to rest the lingering questions about their around-the-lens waterproofing. BUT I think they've made a calculation they can sell more single-use lights with a non-modifiable light. So I'm not holding my breath, here. It would be more typically Zebra-like to introduce a new 70-degree flood beam in various tint flavors, so that we all rush out to buy another ZL. 

In the meantime, I wonder what would be the effect of attaching an o-ring around the inside edge of the bezel, as a mask. A waste of light, certainly, but it might reign in the beam width that's causing you problems. Perhaps even better, a carefully cut ring of electrical tape. Or even a small strip of electrical tape just to keep the beam out of your glasses.


----------



## eh4

Bolster said:


> ...so that we all rush out to buy another ZL.
> 
> In the meantime, I wonder what would be the effect of attaching an o-ring around the inside edge of the bezel, as a mask. A waste of light, certainly, but it might reign in the beam width that's causing you problems. Perhaps even better, a carefully cut ring of electrical tape. Or even a small strip of electrical tape just to keep the beam out of your glasses.



I concur, also though I'm a Huge fan of ZL I have only bought three lights, they were identical, I bought them all at the same time based solely on; CPF forum input, ZL posted stats and YouTube, and two of them were bought as gifts, no regrets.
So I'm definitely not in the "more varieties=more sales" category.

O- ring modification needs to be done and posted about.
Threaded bezel for extra lenses would result in More purchases on my part, I'd get spares... BTW, HDS Rotary HCRI is wonderful if you dare remove the reflector/lens head and run it bareback as a mule, I want to fabricate a screw in mule-lens bezel. [Tangent complete]


----------



## Bolster

eh4 said:


> So I'm definitely not in the "more varieties=more sales" category.



Makes me wonder how many people actually are. Seems ZL is betting on selling multiples, and certainly they do to the enthusiasts, but might they be money ahead with a screw bezel, selling the aftermarket mod devices (lenses, filters, whatnot). 

My dream is to fabricate a threaded bezel for an H502, but that is currently far beyond my machining capabilities. I don't even have a lathe, all I have is a mill. So threading is either tap/die or nothing.

And machining a filter also seems excessively difficult for a home-shop guy.


----------



## Bolster

*O-ring delimiter for H502*

The O-ring idea appears to work, from an initial trial. I retrieved two different sized o-rings (18 and 17mm OD), placed them on the bezel, and they do delimit the spread of the beam effectively, with no beam artifacts. 

Haven't tried gluing them in place yet (and might not). Probably rubber cement would be best, as it's reversible. Silicone would probably be semi-permanent. 

The o-ring solution wastes lumens, of course.


----------



## eh4

O ring might waste a tiny bit of light but I'll bet it's comparable to the light wasted by the H501's narrower beam, which as a reflectorless light was limiting spread with the bezel anyways.
Rubber cement sounds about perfect to me.


----------



## Bolster

The smaller thicker o-ring I have here (17mm OD) limits the beam down to about 85 degrees of spread (from 120). And the o-ring actually looks good on the light, IMO, like a bumper for the lens. I'm tempted to glue it in place for fun, but I like the wide beam just fine. I think this experiment is better suited for one of you who actually wants a narrower beam. But it looks like it would work well and be a neat, tidy modification. (I think I'll cross post this in the Zebra Mods Thread.)


----------



## Mr Floppy

Bolster said:


> The smaller thicker o-ring I have here (17mm OD) limits the beam down to about 85 degrees of spread (from 120).



Would love a couple of beam shots if you can. I like the idea


----------



## Bolster

Mr Floppy said:


> Would love a couple of beam shots if you can. I like the idea



My manual (beamshot) camera is 90 miles away, but I can describe the beam for you: to me looks like an H501. Smooth edge with relatively little fade. I can try with my crappy auto instamatic but it won't be a good beamshot...

[EDIT] OK here you go. This is quick-and-dirty with clear tape holding on the o-ring, and as you can see I didn't get it very centered. I cut the tape out in the center in an odd shape which explains the odd beam shape. But you get the idea. It tightens up (masks) the beam with a fairly hard edge.

Obviously the beam does NOT get brighter with the ring in place; that's just my dumb automatic camera lightening the photo because the light is in a smaller area. And there's the illusion of a hard edge, whereas the unmod'd beam just fades out.


----------



## moozooh

Even though I don't like the glare, man, that second photo would make me miss the original beam angle instantly.


----------



## B0wz3r

Good work Kel. :thumbsup: I think that for me, the biggest issues are the lens glare and the excess height of the beam. You're right that in the past I've preferred warmer tints, but I wanted to try a true neutral HCRI after the warm XPGs I got last. My new Nailbender module is an XP-G2 HCRI and it's cool and has some green in it. You only really see it when WW hunting, but the cooler tint (I'd guess around 4750K) puts me off. I've repurposed it as a camping/emergency prep light. Nice thing about it is that it's a low voltage driver (.8 - 3v) so it runs on 2xAA. It lives in my L2R. In comparison, I'm finding the tint of the 502D to be very pleasing. In fact, it's making me want an SC with the same emitter; not full flood mind you, just emitter and tint.

The electrical tape idea seems like the best solution for me. It would become much more useful with an oval beam profile, rather than a circular one. I'm going to try making an oval mask out of electrical tape to reduce the amount of vertical spread, but allow all the horizontal spread. That would prevent flashing others, and keep the glare out of my glasses. 

Another nice thing about an oval or rectangular beam, is that it more closely matches the dimensions of the human visual field. Our VF is about 190º of horizontal spread, and about 100º of vertical spread. And, it's also roughly oval, because the eyes are oblate spheroids. 

I'm busy all this weekend, but I can probably make time to give it a try next week. I'll try to stop in again before then, too.


----------



## Bolster

B0wz3r said:


> It would become much more useful with an oval beam profile...



This is a GREAT idea. Never occurred to me before, but I can see the usefulness of it immediately. If it were me I'd probably do an oval in Illustrator, then lay it over electrical tape and cut carefully with an xacto, then transfer to the ZL. I may have to try this, looking forward to your results.


----------



## Mr Floppy

Bolster said:


> OK here you go.



Thanks. That's not a bad. 

The electrical tape would be cool too. You could make all sorts of shapes


----------



## AnAppleSnail

Contact lens for your ZL? It can't be THAT hard to use a thick transparent goo to adhere a concave blob to the front window.


----------



## Planz

Zebra,
If you are reading this thread, please plan for a H52f asap and don't change the switch to be like SC52; too firm.
Keep the switch.


----------



## markr6

Planz said:


> Zebra,If you are reading this thread, please plan for a H52f asap and don't change the switch to be like SC52; too firm.Keep the switch.


H52!!!

+ keep the H51 switch or H502 is fine

+ BLACK anodize (am I the only one?)

+ threaded bezel for optional filters (blue, red, flood, etc)

+ snap-in style headband holder (or as an option to buy) so you can take it out quickly and use as a hand lamp instead of pulling out of the silicone rings - which I never do since it's a hassle

+ battery meter (I'm sure it will have this like the 502, but dont forget!)


----------



## B0wz3r

Upon further reflection, I think the emitter housing would have to have a compound curve in it. It would have to extend forward on the top and bottom but not on the sides. That would be the best solution, I think. Might still be possible to simulate with electrical tape, but I'm thinking the constriction might have to be pretty extreme to produce the desired beam pattern. No way to know for sure without actually trying it out.


----------



## eh4

Sounds like a good excuse to play with some Sugru moldable silicon.


----------



## Kyle K

Zebralight can't even keep up with the demand for their products as it is. I'd like to see them concentrate on stepping up production before they take on new designs.


----------



## Popp

These are back ordered on ZL site, any idea when they will be available again?


----------



## B0wz3r

I should be able to make some time tonight to play around with my H502d and some tape. To begin, I'm not planning on making any kind of special mask. I think the breadth of the beam profile will be wide enough that I should be able to place a small piece of tape with its straight edge directly on the upper and lower portions of the bezel/lens and still get the desired effect. I'll let you know what my results are as soon as I can.


----------



## ibu

Anyone out there who believes that a 502w will ever be released?


----------



## psychbeat

Seems like they are waiting either for a specific tint or for the new XML2 to be available.


----------



## ToyTank

B0wz3r said:


> Upon further reflection, I think the emitter housing would have to have a compound curve in it. It would have to extend forward on the top and bottom but not on the sides. That would be the best solution, I think. Might still be possible to simulate with electrical tape, but I'm thinking the constriction might have to be pretty extreme to produce the desired beam pattern. No way to know for sure without actually trying it out.



how about getting one of those wallet sized fresnel lenses? If you used one as a difuser you could shape the beam. I just played with my H502 and a page size lens I have and it seems like it would work quite well and leave a smooth beam.


----------



## B0wz3r

ToyTank said:


> how about getting one of those wallet sized fresnel lenses? If you used one as a difuser you could shape the beam. I just played with my H502 and a page size lens I have and it seems like it would work quite well and leave a smooth beam.



Interesting idea... I don't know much about fresnels myself, but I suppose one could be formulated to produce the desired beam pattern without having to alter the shape of the emitter housing. At least it would help limit the amount of physical variance in the housing required to produce the desire beam pattern.


----------



## ToyTank

I need to get another lens I use mine as alternate fire starter so I don't want to cut it up. 

When I shine through the lens on the edges it flattens the beam on that side. I think it refracts toward the center so I'm going to try and make a "bifocal" lens from a bottom and top part of the lens to squish the top and bottom of the beam. 

Amazon has what looks like the same page size lens' that I have for $5 ish.


----------



## ToyTank

I was thinking about it so I did a real quick and dirty proof of concept. It took longer to take photos, edit, upload yada yada.

This is with 2 layers of tape and a dirty scratched up old lens with a big ugly joint down the center. Normally IMO you'd want the lens turned 90 degrees for headlamp use, I have it like that for taking the picture only.

IMO with a little polish this would be a nice simple mod:shrug: It works better than the photos show- Cell phone camera

Stock






Proof of concept Zebra eye






Like I said quick, ugly I did not even cut the lens straight 






Edit:This is where I cut the lens-top is top. I cut there because I wanted to squish the top and bottom of the beam down. I think it went to far though as you can see in the photo. You really should be able to customize the shape of most light beams. Fresnel lenses historically are used for lanterns and lighthouses not sure why we don't see them more in flashlights.


----------



## skycamnz

Now THAT is an interesting beam pattern!


----------



## Mr Floppy

ToyTank said:


> Proof of concept Zebra eye
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fresnel lenses historically are used for lanterns and lighthouses not sure why we don't see them more in flashlights.



I love it! The Fenix BT20 bike light is using a fresnel lens not. It might start a trend


----------



## Swede74

I can't think of any real-world applications, but it comes in very handy when you need a focused beam on your bedroom closet door


----------



## ToyTank

I can't think why you'd want a focused spot on your closet any less than an eye on your kitchen wall

I know there is a zebralight mod thread but I'm almost thinking we need a H502(any floody) beam mod thread. After sleeping on it I realized several things I did wrong on POC, and I want to solicit others ideas and opinions without hi-jacking this thread.

Edit: I made a thread in the mod section


----------



## icedmocha

I'm having a bit of trouble. How do I turn this light off? If I give the button a quick tap it blinks intermittently. If I long press it only changes brightness. Thanks.


----------



## ibu

psychbeat said:


> Seems like they are waiting either for a specific tint or for the new XML2 to be available.



Does anyone holds a hope that the 502w will appear in this year?


----------



## bbb74

icedmocha said:


> I'm having a bit of trouble. How do I turn this light off? If I give the button a quick tap it blinks intermittently. If I long press it only changes brightness. Thanks.



How intermittently? If it detects the battery is flat it will blink every x seconds, I think its 80 but don't quote me on that.


----------



## Eisier

Hi,

For those of you who use a h502(c) while camping: which output setting do you usually use when doing typical camp tasks, like pitching tent, sitting around camp, cooking in front of the tent, etc.? I'm considering the h502c to replace a decade-old petzl with cracked housing and that famous hotspot, and based on the output setting I could find out how long runtime can I expect.

Thanks.


----------



## icedmocha

bbb74 said:


> How intermittently? If it detects the battery is flat it will blink every x seconds, I think its 80 but don't quote me on that.


Every 15 seconds. They are fresh eneloops. I have even removed the battery and placed it back in and it keeps blinking. If it's not normal I will contact ZL.


----------



## Bolster

icedmocha said:


> Every 15 seconds. They are fresh eneloops. I have even removed the battery and placed it back in and it keeps blinking. If it's not normal I will contact ZL.



So you've tried multiple different cells and you get the same odd behavior?


----------



## jkid1911

icedmocha said:


> I'm having a bit of trouble. How do I turn this light off? If I give the button a quick tap it blinks intermittently. If I long press it only changes brightness. Thanks.



If you click it one time very deliberatly and positively it should turn off. A tap will usually change to a different level. It may be you're not being deliberate enought but I can only speculate. Hope this helps.....


----------



## mr_magicfingers

Anyone know how to rig the headband on one of these to not leave the two vertical lines in your forehead  Is there an alternative headband?


----------



## Swede74

mr_magicfingers said:


> Anyone know how to rig the headband on one of these to not leave the two vertical lines in your forehead  Is there an alternative headband?



I think it has been described earlier in this or another H502 thread. I took me a while to figure out how it's done, and I took some pictures when I did it. If I can find them, I'll post them when I'm back on my computer.
I found them, but they weren't as good as I remembered them, so I took a couple of new ones. I think this is a case of a picture says more than a thousand words, but unfortunately my new pictures didn't turn out as informative as I would have liked. I hope they help a little though. I put paperclips (and red arrows) where you have to pry the band out of the plastic...whatever it may be called, I don't even know a word for it in Swedish


----------



## B0wz3r

I came up with an easy way to solve the problem, but I don't have a pic and it's not easy to describe. I may have posted about it in the Zebralight Mods thread here, but I don't remember for certain. Check there to see.


----------



## pblanch

So I've been watching the thread for a while and have noticed the complaints of the waterproofing/sealing of the 502 seems to have dropped off.

Is it that the horse has been flogged enough (excuse the pun) or does it seem that they have fixed the issue perhaps?


----------



## Bolster

pblanch said:


> So I've been watching the thread for a while and have noticed the complaints of the waterproofing/sealing of the 502 seems to have dropped off.
> 
> Is it that the horse has been flogged enough (excuse the pun) or does it seem that they have fixed the issue perhaps?



Well... if you caught my poll on the issue, it turned out that the number of failures recorded by actual dunk tests, conducted over 2 weeks when the H502 leaking topic was red-hot was...(drum roll) ... one...and one person who voted a leak, only imagined that he _would_ have a leak if he _did_ submerge his light. That poll got _1500 views_ during that time so the issue was well-exposed. So while I'm certain there were real leaks experienced by a few, the jury's still out regarding the internet gossip & exaggeration effect. 

(LOL, not only is the jury still out, some of them have moved on, and some have, I suspect, expired...)

Secondly, it's entirely possible that ZL did modify or change a production procedure...they've certainly done that in the past...but they've not admitted anything, and our spies inside the ZL plant have been mum...so, we don't know. 

My advice? Get a ZL from a reputable source, dunk it, if it passes, keep it and be happy. On the off chance it fails, return it, and scream bloody murder here at the CPF forums.


----------



## mr_magicfingers

Swede74 said:


> I think it has been described earlier in this or another H502 thread. I took me a while to figure out how it's done, and I took some pictures when I did it. If I can find them, I'll post them when I'm back on my computer.
> I found them, but they weren't as good as I remembered them, so I took a couple of new ones. I think this is a case of a picture says more than a thousand words, but unfortunately my new pictures didn't turn out as informative as I would have liked. I hope they help a little though. I put paperclips (and red arrows) where you have to pry the band out of the plastic...whatever it may be called, I don't even know a word for it in Swedish



Thanks very much indeed, very helpful


----------



## rojos

Bolster said:


> My advice? Get a ZL from a reputable source, dunk it, if it passes, keep it and be happy. On the off chance it fails, return it, and scream bloody murder here at the CPF forums.



That is probably the best advice. Just make sure that you are absolutely certain that the unit you received is water tight. 

Dunk test leaks can show up right away. But sometimes, the damage from a leak can take weeks to show.


----------



## Bolster

rojos said:


> ...But sometimes, the damage from a leak can take weeks to show.



Which can be the case for saltwater. I would not expect time-delayed damage from freshwater ingress. Obviously the dunk test should be in fresh water, not salt.


----------



## Dr.444

Will they ever upgrade it with XML-2 :thinking:


----------



## shark_za

Eisier said:


> Hi,
> 
> For those of you who use a h502(c) while camping: which output setting do you usually use when doing typical camp tasks, like pitching tent, sitting around camp, cooking in front of the tent, etc.? I'm considering the h502c to replace a decade-old petzl with cracked housing and that famous hotspot, and based on the output setting I could find out how long runtime can I expect.
> 
> Thanks.



Hi there,
I use the H502c on the medium settings the most while camping.
M1 when I need to setup camp and erect my tent
M2 set to 9 lumen for all other outside tasks like cooking and sitting around camp.
Inside the tent I use the L1 setting the most.

Those three types of activity used to be H-M-L on my H501w and I get much more runtime now with the more optimised outputs.

For walking outside of the camp I use a H600 or MYO RXP.


----------



## ibu

I gave up to waiting for the 502w. Can't believe, that it will come. My polite question sent to the zebralight support some weeks ago is still unanswered.

Can you suggest any other flood headlamp with a warm tint?


----------



## greeny1

I got one of these last week. Love it, it will become my most used light around the house, shed garden etc.

It's really small - much smaller than the SC52. 

It is very green tinged tint at the edges (doesn't bother me too much). I will not use the headband much (which now just comes will a single black holder) but I find the clip perfect for just clipping to the front of my shirt/coat etc. I suspect the clip mount points on the body will get very scratched up as I find myself twisting the clip around quite frequently. I would have preferred the clip to be a ring that is slotted over the body and held on by the tail cap. There are a number of ways it can be clipped to a cap, but to be honest clipping to my shirt/coat works great.

It's amazing how useful having this wide spill/flood is. 

You probably couldn't get away with this being your only light (due to no throw), but for most people it would make a great addition providing something different.


----------



## B0wz3r

ibu said:


> I gave up to waiting for the 502w. Can't believe, that it will come. My polite question sent to the zebralight support some weeks ago is still unanswered.
> 
> Can you suggest any other flood headlamp with a warm tint?



They have the C model already, which is a fairly warm tint. I don't see why they'd do an additional neutral model as well.

If you want a warm tinted 502, go with the C.


----------



## ibu

B0wz3r said:


> They have the C model already, which is a fairly warm tint. I don't see why they'd do an additional neutral model as well.
> 
> If you want a warm tinted 502, go with the C.



Hhmm. When do you expect a completly new flood model from ZL?
Next year?


----------



## B0wz3r

ibu said:


> Hhmm. When do you expect a completly new flood model from ZL?
> Next year?



Hard to say. Their product cycle typically seems to be in the 12 - 24 month range, longer for some models, shorter for others, depending on how successful it is. The SC600 has been out for almost two years now, and they don't seem to be considering retiring it; they're updating it in fact. On the other hand, the SC80 was pretty short lived and as far as I know has already been discontinued. What's more, the much hyped Q50 was lauded and talked about here before it even became a real prototype, but then it never saw the light of day, despite the enormous popular response to it. 

The only thing I can see them doing differently for a true pure flood model is making one with a narrower beam profile; the 120º beam angle of the 502 is a bit wide for some people's tastes. I'd like to see them come out with an 80º or 90º version of it, but that's just me.


----------



## smokey616

I for one am still holding out for a possible H502w, if only because they've released a 'w' version of almost every other light they've made.


----------



## 1mT

There is H502w in zebra's google-doc!
Cree XM-L2
CRI = 75
T = 4400 K
Release 5/2013


----------



## Mr Floppy

1mT said:


> There is H502w in zebra's google-doc!
> Cree XM-L2
> CRI = 75
> T = 4400 K
> Release 5/2013



Oooh, a warm XM-L2. Time to save my pennies.


----------



## MichaelW

Mr Floppy said:


> Oooh, a warm XM-L2. Time to save my pennies.


That is neutral, not warm.
When will Zebra get some xp-g2 into their other models?


----------



## Mr Floppy

MichaelW said:


> That is neutral, not warm.



Maybe it's time to start calling it the H502n


----------



## MichaelW

It is hight time that they did.
It is warm relative to the extreme cool-whites they used...


----------



## dwong

which of the 502 best for night hike?


----------



## davidt1

dwong said:


> which of the 502 best for night hike?



None. Not enough throw.


----------



## dwong

Thanks, love the 1 AA form, but will look at BD ReVolt instead....



davidt1 said:


> None. Not enough throw.


----------



## kwak

davidt1 said:


> None. Not enough throw.



+1


----------



## ibu

A question about publishing a preorder option from ZL:

Where did they published that option inn the past?

On the main website inside the complete list of models?
In the newsletter?
On "hidden" pages?
...

I never understood, why they do not offer a preorder registration. It is quite uncomfortable for clients to check a website regularly.

Thanks.


----------



## Quigath

Assuming you're on a walking hike in the woods or similar any of the standard lights would be great. The only zebra I have is the older 501, it lights up the path ahead just fine. Usually it's best to keep a flood headlamp on to light up generally and a focused beam flashlight in the hand to spot things. I find they work best together.
As for which Zebralight flood to choose: if you want to appreciate the colors of nature, choose a higher CRI light, like the 502c/d. For maximum output and runtime, get the standard 502. They also have those other battery format lights but haven't tried those yet -- this is a 502 thread.


----------



## smokey616

H502w is up for pre-order.


----------



## Jubal

LED: Cree XM-L2 Neutral White (Norminal CCT 4400K)

XM-L2!


----------



## tickled

I've recently received the H502d model with the 5000K Luxeon Rebel.

Liking the excellent neutral beam. Unlike warmer tints, white looks white which is as it should be.

The beam itself is one large ball of white light surrounded by a very yellow corona. It's not exactly apples to apples but the reflectored XM-L 3C lights I have (which are supposed to be 4700-5000K) look quite different. They look noticeably yellower in the hotspot and spill even though the CCT is supposed to be almost the same.

The clip as mentioned has a death grip on the body, which got scratched while I was removing it and again when I put it back on.

One thing I didn't appreciate from just pictures is how diminutive this thing is. Although it's fatter than the LD01 on my keychain, it is quite a bit shorter. Being unobtrusive is a plus when being carried in a shirt pocket.

Aside from the clip issues, liking the buy so far.


----------



## burntoshine

Just noticed an email from ZL about the H502w. I bought the H502d and immediately sold it because I didn't like the tint. However, I might look into getting the XML2w version. I've always been happy with their neutral tints.

Really, I'm deciding between the H502w and the SC52w. Neither are available at the moment, which is great for me because I don't have much in the way of extra funds. This gives me plenty of time to figure out which one I want. I still have and use my H501w; perfect up-close flood - absolutely love it!

I'm very fond of ZL's headlamps!


----------



## wentworth

*H502d troubleshooting*

Hi All,
the 502d is my "get up during the night light" and over the past two nights it's been acting strangely. I turned it on at L1 and put it down on a table in tailstand. The light seemed to dim a little, then went back to normal brightness. This morning, I turned it on, set it down on the table in tailstand and it turned off.
I'm using an eneloop which has plenty of charge.
I can't get the light to play up in the same way, so it's difficult to know what the problem is.

When I get up in the morning it's probably 5 degrees C. I wouldn't have thought cold was an issue for eneloops at this temp.

Any ideas appreciated.


----------



## 1mT

*Re: H502d troubleshooting*

I also have a problems with my new zebra H502d
The video shows only one of the problems.

In consequence of video compression is hard to see, but after 4 clicks H502d blinks 4 times.


----------



## 1mT

*Re: H502d troubleshooting*

ZebraLight requests to return this light to repair.
I am very disappointed in the quality of zebra-lamps.
They sent initially defective light, apparently they have not quality control.
:shakehead


----------



## 1mT

*Re: H502d troubleshooting*


----------



## bbb74

*Re: H502d troubleshooting*

1mT - what type of battery are you using in your 502d? I figure your light is probably defective but just wanted to make sure it wasn't the battery.

The first video seems to show that the light flickers whenever you put your hand near it, is that right??!


----------



## 1mT

*Re: H502d troubleshooting*

*bbb74*, 
I use my H502d with a NEW lithium energizer battery.
Torch blinks when I bring finger to the button, even if I have not touched the torch (first video).
Sometimes the torch is flickering (in all modes).
Torch can all go out and then light up again (second video).


----------



## bbb74

*Re: H502d troubleshooting*



1mT said:


> *bbb74*,
> I use my H502d with a NEW lithium energizer battery.
> Torch blinks when I bring finger to the button, even if I have not touched the torch (first video).
> Sometimes the torch is flickering (in all modes).
> Torch can all go out and then light up again (second video).



Ok that's what I thought with the flickering. Def the torch then


----------



## marcis

*Re: H502d troubleshooting*

H502W, now says not for sale on zebra page, Just like the SC52W. is it a gltich, or maybe pre-orders are filled ?


----------



## Yorgi

*Re: H502d troubleshooting*



marcis said:


> H502W, now says not for sale on zebra page, Just like the SC52W. is it a gltich, or maybe pre-orders are filled ?


Hopefully it's nothing serious, I pre-ordered both of these last night before the status changed.


----------



## davidt1

*Re: H502d troubleshooting*



marcis said:


> H502W, now says not for sale on zebra page, Just like the SC52W. is it a gltich, or maybe pre-orders are filled ?



These lights are already discontinued? LOL. Who knows what's going at Zebralight these days!

Perhaps negotiations with Chinese sweatshops to make these lights have broken down?


----------



## markr6

*Re: H502d troubleshooting*

They're getting ready to bail and just made off with our money! Just kidding...I hope!


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: H502d troubleshooting*



markr6 said:


> They're getting ready to bail and just made off with our money! Just kidding...I hope!



heh, no doubt a few here would like to think that. I'd like to think that they are all going through final beta testing and the process is delayed. Who knows. I do wish more companies would test their devices in the field over a long period rather than rush it to the market, and I don't just mean for lights


----------



## ibu

smokey616 said:


> H502w is up for pre-order.


Today Zebralight told me, that my pre ordered H502W has been shipped to Germany.

It's my first time ordering a product directly from China and I'm curious how many weeks it will need.

Anyone, who has experience with an order from Europe?


----------



## smokey616

ibu said:


> Today Zebralight told me, that my pre ordered H502W has been shipped to Germany.
> 
> It's my first time ordering a product directly from China and I'm curious how many weeks it will need.
> 
> Anyone, who has experience with an order from Europe?



Should take about three weeks, maximum four. Got a shipping notification as well just now.


----------



## Mr Floppy

smokey616 said:


> Should take about three weeks, maximum four. Got a shipping notification as well just now.



Wow, that's ahead of the estimated shipping time. I noticed that it's back up for pre-order again. Can't wait to hear the reports ...


----------



## firemedic

My h502w arrived yesterday. I'm not impressed. I allready have a h502c. There is no visible difference from 145 lumens and 260 lumens even thought the h502w is rated over 100 lumens brighter. I was shocked! Someone who has the standard h502 and h502w needs to do a comparison because i think they may be the same light.:thinking:


----------



## psychbeat

firemedic said:


> My h502w arrived yesterday. I'm not impressed. I allready have a h502c. There is no visible difference from 145 lumens and 260 lumens even thought the h502w is rated over 100 lumens brighter. I was shocked! Someone who has the standard h502 and h502w needs to do a comparison because i think they may be the same light.:thinking:



What battery are you using?
It can make a big difference


----------



## bbb74

psychbeat said:


> What battery are you using?
> It can make a big difference



This.

And if you want to make sure, just look at the LED in each. The h502w should have a big yellow LED taking up most of the space at the bottom of the reflector. The h502c will have a smaller LED, mounted on a rectangular board.


----------



## Mr Floppy

firemedic said:


> Someone who has the standard h502 and h502w needs to do a comparison because i think they may be the same light.:thinking:



Huh? The H502 was shown to be much brighter than the 502c.

Anyway, battery choice is very important in these lights. Best test is to get a L91 lithium. If you can't get all modes out of that on a fresh one, then you have a problem. If it's fine, get some eneloops ..


----------



## melty

I just received a shipping notice for my h502w. I ordered it hours after it went up for presale. Hopefully it will get here by Saturday.


----------



## Erik1213

Well, did you get it?


----------



## firemedic

I first tried fresh eneloops in my h502w to compare to the h502c. Then i tried lithium ultimates to see if that would help. To the eye, i could not tell any difference. The h502c would light up anything "up close or distance" as good as the h502w with either battery, just a different color tint. There is a You Tube video that compares the h502 models, and this light appears just like the cool white version they have been selling for a while. I'm just not impressed "AT ALL" with the over 100 lumen increase claimed over the h502c. And yes the h502w's emitter is clearly larger than the h502c's. I'm ready to read other member opinions on this light to see if it's just me.


----------



## Erik1213

Show me your emitter


----------



## firemedic

Erik1213 said:


> Show me your emitter


Well, i'm trying. I've been trying to add attachments from my pictures for the past 2 hours! The only thing i can find is adding a URL?


----------



## 1mT

firemedic said:


> Well, i'm trying. I've been trying to add attachments from my pictures for the past 2 hours! The only thing i can find is adding a URL?



http://www.google.ru/webhp?hl=ru&ta...78,d.bGE&fp=5298172c79d688eb&biw=1920&bih=961


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?312575-How-to-post-Images-from-Google-Picasa-Web

You can also use other picture-hosting:
http://imageshack.us
http://photobucket.com 
etc


----------



## Lite_me

firemedic said:


> Well, i'm trying. I've been trying to add attachments from my pictures for the past 2 hours! The only thing i can find is adding a URL?


Yes, that is correct. You need to upload your photos to a hosting site first, then link to them. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?327532-Posting-photos


----------



## 1mT

You can publish only URL of your photo.
This is easier.

Examples:

photo of h502 http://www.douguya.biz/pic-labo/ZEBRALIGHT-H502_00006.JPG
photo of h502c http://www.douguya.biz/pic-labo/ZEBRALIGHT-H502_00013.JPG

Source http://www.douguya.biz/SHOP/ZEBRA-H502.html


----------



## Erik1213

firemedic said:


> Well, i'm trying. I've been trying to add attachments from my pictures for the past 2 hours! The only thing i can find is adding a URL?



Upload to imgur.com and copy the URL. Post here. Imgur is nice because it has a drag and drop interface.


----------



## firemedic

That sucks? I have to join another website to post pictures on this website instead of just adding them from my computer pictures.:ironic:


----------



## Erik1213

Not if you use imgur...


----------



## firemedic

ok Erik1213, this may work, but appears they want me to set up a account. if it works without setting up a picture account thank you.


----------



## firemedic

no. it didnt work


----------



## firemedic

[/IMG] THERE IT IS!:wave:


----------



## 1mT

Focus on the table, not on the emitter. 
But I think it is a XM-L or XM-L2.


----------



## firemedic

1mT said:


> Focus on the table, not on the emitter.
> But I think it is a XM-L or XM-L2.



about the best i can get out of my fucus on a tiny led.



[/IMG]


----------



## Lithium466

It's an XM-L2.


----------



## Erik1213

Well, if you don't want it, I will trade you a SC52


----------



## firemedic

No thanks. I only use anglehead lights, but thanks for the offer



[/IMG]. I'm at work now and here are my options. My wife took the h502c from me:ironic:


----------



## DIΩDΣ

So mark me down as another H502 owner... well 502"d" for me. I'd lost my beloved H51w last summer/fall and was pocketing my somewhat large Quark-X AA2 neutral since then. I dont mind the extra length, and the ouput is spectacular (though the tint isnt great) but what I really missed was the headlamp aspect of my H51 (even though I probably used it handheld as much or more). I was sure it would eventually turn up, so I wasnt in a big hury to replace. Was really hoping ZL would come out with the next replacement for it, like a H52 series. Well with camping season upon us I had to put an order in. Looked at lots of options but for the smallest size and highest output to weight ratio and awesome UI I stuck with ZL. Would have got the H51fw if it was in stock, but decided on the all flood, and really like neutral tints so thought I'd give the D a try. I was thinking I could affix it with a mini headband around my camera lenses for macro photography too since I have yet to get a ring flash. Having it on all the time might spook some insects, will have to experiment, but another reason I was looking at the high CRI choices.

And wouldnt you know, a few days after I placed my order, actually just one day before recieving my new H502d, I found my H51w. But thats ok, I guess I'm finillaly becoming a flashaholic  I could easily get by with nothing more than my H51w, it seems to be the jack of all trades. Used the 502d now a few times, and I really do like it, both the wide flood and the tint. It is a tad bit cooler that the H51w, as expected, but just a little. No funny green or violet or any unexpected tint whatsoever, just a perfect crisp white.


----------



## markr6

DIΩDΣ;4226744 said:


> No funny green or violet or any unexpected tint whatsoever, just a perfect crisp white.



That's one thing I love about neutral/warm tints...in my experience they're only either "a bit cooler" or "a bit warmer" than I expected, but never any real issues like greenish, pinkish, or variance from center to spill.


----------



## melty

markr6 said:


> That's one thing I love about neutral/warm tints...in my experience they're only either "a bit cooler" or "a bit warmer" than I expected, but never any real issues like greenish, pinkish, or variance from center to spill.



This seems to be a "thing" with CREE LEDs, or at least those from top brightness bins. My H502w showed up on Saturday, and it has a fairly strong green corona. I'm not going to send it back or anything, but it is definitely noticeable. I have an XP-G2 5000K modded Preon P0 that also has a noticeable green corona (less so than the H502w).

Is the change in color vs angle just a byproduct of efficiency, or is it just the luck of the draw with CREE? I only have one Nichia 219, but color seems to be solid as a rock at any angle.


----------



## Mr Floppy

melty said:


> My H502w showed up on Saturday, and it has a fairly strong green corona. I'm not going to send it back or anything, but it is definitely noticeable. I have an XP-G2 5000K modded Preon P0 that also has a noticeable green corona (less so than the H502w).



How's the rest of the light? Any response to what firemedic is experiencing?


> Is the change in color vs angle just a byproduct of efficiency, or is it just the luck of the draw with CREE? I only have one Nichia 219, but color seems to be solid as a rock at any angle


I have noticed that bare LED's seem to have a bit of corona to them. I wonder if there's something in that? The cool white XM-L in my malkoff mag dropin has a greenish corona. I didn't really notice it before but I usually have the reflector on. There were people complaining about the corona in the cool white H502 too, with much blame on the GITD reflector.


----------



## melty

Mr Floppy said:


> How's the rest of the light? Any response to what firemedic is experiencing?



The rest of the light seems perfectly fine. Firemedic's main complaint appears to be brightness vs his other H502; I don't have any other H502 model, so I can't comment. I do have a late model SC31 running on lithium-ion that seems comparable, but the large difference in beam shape makes it decidedly unscientific.



> I have noticed that bare LED's seem to have a bit of corona to them. I wonder if there's something in that? The cool white XM-L in my malkoff mag dropin has a greenish corona. I didn't really notice it before but I usually have the reflector on. There were people complaining about the corona in the cool white H502 too, with much blame on the GITD reflector.



I'm fairly certain the majority of the effect is not due to the GITD reflector. I can stare directly at the LED and watch the surface of the LED change color as I approach the edge of the beam. The brightness of the LED vs the GTID material leads me to believe that the GTID material has little to no effect on the color of the beam (unless the GITD light is being reflected back onto the surface of the LED).


----------



## firemedic

Yea, my only issue was the lack of obvious light output from 145 lumens to 260 lumens. I do love the light and will not be sending it back like had thought about. I emailed zebralight before i purchased the h502w and was told that if i wanted more light output the h502w was what i needed. Lesson learned. To the eye, same output/different color. Both of my 502's have that greenish tint at the edges of the light on walls ect... It doesnt bother me as much as not being able to see a difference in over 100 more lumens, but I'm wondering if that silver ring around the lense is reflecting light back to pick up the green from the GITD part?


----------



## Mr Floppy

melty said:


> I'm fairly certain the majority of the effect is not due to the GITD reflector. I can stare directly at the LED and watch the surface of the LED change color as I approach the edge of the beam. The brightness of the LED vs the GTID material leads me to believe that the GTID material has little to no effect on the color of the beam (unless the GITD light is being reflected back onto the surface of the LED).



I don't think it's the GITD reflector either. Myth pretty much debunked in this thread. 

What do you think of the tint?


----------



## firemedic

I'm just not happy with the h502w. I'm hoping they let me return it and pay extra for a h600w since I have only had it 2 weeks. My $17.00 uf-v4 puts out more light, but has less spill and a hotspot.


----------



## melty

Mr Floppy said:


> I don't think it's the GITD reflector either. Myth pretty much debunked in this thread.
> 
> What do you think of the tint?



I like the tint. It seems right on par with the other "w" lights I have from Zebra (SC600w and SC31w). My SC31w has the best uniformity; it's creamy white from hotspot to spill. The SC600w has a slightly yellow corona around the hotspot. In practice, I don't notice the off-color corona of either the SC600w or H502w.


----------



## Mr Floppy

melty said:


> I like the tint. It seems right on par with the other "w" lights I have from Zebra (SC600w and SC31w). My SC31w has the best uniformity;



I have the H51w and I'd describe it the same way you described the SC31w. It was one of my favourites before I got a DQG IV NW. That's good to hear though. If anything the H501w seem a bit dull but that was a favourite too.


----------



## kwak

firemedic said:


> I'm just not happy with the h502w. I'm hoping they let me return it and pay extra for a h600w since I have only had it 2 weeks. My $17.00 uf-v4 puts out more light, but has less spill and a hotspot.



So you bought a light that's specifically aimed at people that want flood then complain because it doesn't have a hotspot 

Might be worth spending 5 mins searching and reading up on a light before buying in the future


----------



## bradthebold

Not sure if this had been said recently, or if it's even true based off of their history with these claims, but I asked ZL when the H602 would be out and they said it would be announced at the end of this month along with the w version.

I am currently trying to decide on the H602 or an H600fw. Not sure how much flood/throw I would need or would be useful.


----------



## firemedic

kwak said:


> So you bought a light that's specifically aimed at people that want flood then complain because it doesn't have a hotspot
> 
> Might be worth spending 5 mins searching and reading up on a light before buying in the future


I have 2 h502's. I was just describing the light the uf-b4 put out. I love the flood without the hotspot. You might need to review back a little more in this thread.


----------



## bbb74

My h502w arrived  I haven't had much time to play with it apart from make sure it works (it does) and compare output on H1 to my h502c.

Rest assured output is significantly brighter than the h502c, as much as I had hoped for. I liked the tint from what I briefly saw of it.

The black silicone holder though is so loose on the body the light freely turns in it. Unless I put one end of the holder around the bit where the clip is meant to go as that part is thicker. I wonder if I got a holder for the wrong model.

Looking forward to my sc52w now


----------



## smokey616

bbb74 said:


> The black silicone holder though is so loose on the body the light freely turns in it. Unless I put one end of the holder around the bit where the clip is meant to go as that part is thicker. I wonder if I got a holder for the wrong model.



Nope, mine does that too, though there's still enough friction that it doesn't spin freely. Might be a problem when used for jogging etc. but I don't think it'll be an issue for me.

Otherwise it's a great light and I'm happy to finally have a proper flood light.


----------



## bbb74

smokey616 said:


> Nope, mine does that too, though there's still enough friction that it doesn't spin freely. Might be a problem when used for jogging etc. but I don't think it'll be an issue for me.
> 
> Otherwise it's a great light and I'm happy to finally have a proper flood light.



No unless I put mine in the clip part, it spins very freely. I've got spare ones so while its a bit annoying its not the end of the world.


----------



## firemedic

bbb74 said:


> My h502w arrived  I haven't had much time to play with it apart from make sure it works (it does) and compare output on H1 to my h502c.
> 
> Rest assured output is significantly brighter than the h502c, as much as I had hoped for. I liked the tint from what I briefly saw of it.
> 
> 
> now



So your h502w is significantly brighter than your h502c? Like over 100lumens brighter? I wonder if light output varies from one flashlight to another. I guess the silicone headbands do because my flashlight fit very tight and didn't want to turn. Don't get me wrong, now that I have been exposed to zebralight I'll probably allways be shopping with them. They let me send my h502w back and my h600w is on the way.


----------



## bbb74

firemedic said:


> So your h502w is significantly brighter than your h502c? Like over 100lumens brighter? I wonder if light output varies from one flashlight to another. I guess the silicone headbands do because my flashlight fit very tight and didn't want to turn. Don't get me wrong, now that I have been exposed to zebralight I'll probably allways be shopping with them. They let me send my h502w back and my h600w is on the way.



I'd say so. Its very hard to judge though. I just metered them both in H1 using my SLR, with each light aimed at a white wall. The metered difference was 2/3rds of a stop, ie 66% brighter. The camera only does 1/3rd stop increments though.

There's a slight smudge or fingerprint on the xml in my h502w I've noticed


----------



## DIΩDΣ

bbb74 said:


> No unless I put mine in the clip part, it spins very freely. I've got spare ones so while its a bit annoying its not the end of the world.


I noticed that too. Mine is loose inside the holder. I've been meaning to get out my h51 headband to see if it fits that one but I've been unable to find it. I mainly use my nite-ize headband and it works just fine in that.


----------



## moses

Quick question. I do have the 502c. For the most part, I'm OK with the quantity of light but yest, at times I would like a higher maximum. However, I got the c because color rendition is important to me. 

How does the color rendition ofr the h502w compare to the h502c? The 502c makes colors 'pop' compared to my other LED lights. Just wondering about whether to upgrade or not....

Thanks,
Mo




bbb74 said:


> My h502w arrived  I haven't had much time to play with it apart from make sure it works (it does) and compare output on H1 to my h502c.
> 
> Rest assured output is significantly brighter than the h502c, as much as I had hoped for. I liked the tint from what I briefly saw of it.
> 
> The black silicone holder though is so loose on the body the light freely turns in it. Unless I put one end of the holder around the bit where the clip is meant to go as that part is thicker. I wonder if I got a holder for the wrong model.
> 
> Looking forward to my sc52w now


----------



## bbb74

moses said:


> Quick question. I do have the 502c. For the most part, I'm OK with the quantity of light but yest, at times I would like a higher maximum. However, I got the c because color rendition is important to me.
> 
> How does the color rendition ofr the h502w compare to the h502c? The 502c makes colors 'pop' compared to my other LED lights. Just wondering about whether to upgrade or not....
> 
> Thanks,
> Mo



They don't pop quite so much, but I was comparing by looking at a childrens book with lots of saturated colours including aqua, orange, yellow, red etc. Better than a cool white though. The tint of mine is about the "whitest" of any light I have. Its noticeably not as warm as the h502c (4400 vs 4000K), but it doesn't appear cold - its more in keeping with what a "neutral" light should be to my mind - its neither cold or warm. The h502c and my sc51w are both "warm" to me even though I know on this forum they wouldn't really be considered warm.


----------



## LlF

when the battery is very low, and the light is on L3(0.06lm), it would cut off 1 sec after i turn it on. but if i double click it before it turns off itself, it would go up to L2(.34lm), and it would stay on. strange behaviour


----------



## garbman

Hi guys
because I don't have the patience to read all this thread, can someone tell me
some differences between this headlamp and the h52fw.
i have looked at the IS site and I see that they are very similar...
so am I missing something here?


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## LlF

well im definitely no expert, but from zl site's specs, h52f is a narrower flood than 502, 90 degree vs 120, and it's achieved by frosted lens, instead of _____(?)


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## CrazyM

LlF said:


> well im definitely no expert, but from zl site's specs, h52f is a narrower flood than 502, 90 degree vs 120, and it's achieved by frosted lens, instead of _____(?)



H52 - Reflector + Clear lens
H52f - Reflector + Frosted lens
H502 - Clear lens


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## DIΩDΣ

LlF said:


> when the battery is very low, and the light is on L3(0.06lm), it would cut off 1 sec after i turn it on. but if i double click it before it turns off itself, it would go up to L2(.34lm), and it would stay on. strange behaviour



I dont believe you are going between those two modes. Your toggling between L1 and L2. It shuts off on L1 but if you double click into the lower mode, it stays on, and that would make sense. L1 will always be one of the two modes, you cannot change that I am aware of, while L2 can be programmed to levels of your choosing.



garbman said:


> Hi guys
> because I don't have the patience to read all this thread, can someone tell me
> some differences between this headlamp and the h52fw.
> i have looked at the IS site and I see that they are very similar...
> so am I missing something here?



The 502 is like a bare LED and will have a much more even and much wider area coverage (but spread out so much more will appear to be much less lux). The 'F' models will not spread nearly as wide or as even but will more light out in front of you, and still be much smoother than the regular lights that have a much smaller and distinct bright hotspot. Beamshots/video review would make the distinction very clear. Search around, or maybe sometime this week I can try and do a few comparison shots.


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## LlF

DIΩDΣ;4340053 said:


> I dont believe you are going between those two modes. Your toggling between L1 and L2. It shuts off on L1 but if you double click into the lower mode, it stays on, and that would make sense. L1 will always be one of the two modes, you cannot change that I am aware of, while L2 can be programmed to levels of your choosing.



You are right, it should be L1(2.7 lm) instead of L2 in my post. 
I set the double click between L1 and L3. It would turn itself off on L3, but stay on on L1, (then when the power get too low it would start to blink, rather than a shut off)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diablo_331

My (now lost) SC52W would also behave this exact way. I never got to see if it would blink rather than shut down on a low cell though. Is this blink like bad PWM? 

My SC51C does this on an almost depleted cell after it has stepped down first to medium then low. If I try to turn it back on a medium mode the driver doesn't step down and instead has a horrible PWM. Like a very fast variable strobe. If I then turn it to one of the two low modes, it's stable until the battery cannot hold whichever low mode I have selected at which point the PWM comes back. This is never an issue in use for me though because I'm anal about having a fresh Eneloop in my precious at all times.  

This never bothered me with my SC52W because the lowest low level is unusable for my my uses.


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## DIΩDΣ

LlF said:


> You are right, it should be L1(2.7 lm) instead of L2 in my post.
> I set the double click between L1 and L3. It would turn itself off on L3, but stay on on L1, (then when the power get too low it would start to blink, rather than a shut off)



If your certain you're in those two modes, then I'm not sure since in the few years I have had Zebras the very few times I've depleted a cell down to medium-low I've always swapped cells, and my 502 becomes to dim for most things under medium anyhow. Its quite possible the light starts acting squirrely when your down to the point of loosing some low modes, and a lot of that could be the battery itself. But can you really be sure what modes your clicking between when the light has stepped down automatically? I know I tend to forget when the light dims and I instinctively double click thinking I am in a lower mode, only to discover the brightness did not change, then double click again and no change, then I lost what mode I was in. And I'm not really even sure if the ZL stays in your programmed modes anyhow when it starts ramping down?


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## LlF

DIΩDΣ;4340981 said:


> If your certain you're in those two modes, then I'm not sure since in the few years I have had Zebras the very few times I've depleted a cell down to medium-low I've always swapped cells, and my 502 becomes to dim for most things under medium anyhow. Its quite possible the light starts acting squirrely when your down to the point of loosing some low modes, and a lot of that could be the battery itself. But can you really be sure what modes your clicking between when the light has stepped down automatically? I know I tend to forget when the light dims and I instinctively double click thinking I am in a lower mode, only to discover the brightness did not change, then double click again and no change, then I lost what mode I was in. And I'm not really even sure if the ZL stays in your programmed modes anyhow when it starts ramping down?



you are right it's not practical at all to keep using the light with an empty battery. i'm doing this just to play with it. im still in awe with zebralight's design/style


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## LlF

does anyone else's button sometimes swell up? normally the click is very direct and.. decisive.
lately i sometime find it, like there's air under the rubber, i have to press down first before i hit the click.
maybe it's the sudden change of temp?


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## markr6

LlF said:


> does anyone else's button sometimes swell up? normally the click is very direct and.. decisive.
> lately i sometime find it, like there's air under the rubber, i have to press down first before i hit the click.
> maybe it's the sudden change of temp?



I had three Fenix E11s and one of them was like that all the time regardless of temp.


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## LlF

i think i find out the problem, or at least a way to reproduce the issue.
when the light is without the end cap, the click is good, when I tighten the cap without a battery, the click is also good.
but when I load it with a battery and tighten it, now the rubber button would swell up.

my diagno/guess is that I put too much lube on the threads and theres no way for air to escape, ill have to clean the treads when I have the time and see if that fix the problem.


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## Diablo_331

Try the old HDS Clicky trick and hold the button down before and while you're screwing down the tailcap. It may be just enough to give it some click back.


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## LlF

Diablo_331 said:


> Try the old HDS Clicky trick and hold the button down before and while you're screwing down the tailcap. It may be just enough to give it some click back.



Tried this... yes it helped, but still not perfect.

on the other hand, i guess i can say mine is waterproof??


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## tongkang

Hi guys..old thread by new to me..,
after doing some reading from page 1 and found no info about my case..I just realized that the spec on this H502 headlamp came with no 3.7V batt allowed..but in my case I have using IMR for the 1st day I bought and that is about 5-6 month ago if I can recall correct..yesterday I measured the DCurrent on my H502 using [email protected] is 0.9A max on high vs 2.15A on [email protected] with my cheapo DMM..anyone using liIon got any issue please?


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