# What do you guys use for your jogging/running headlight?



## geepondy (Feb 4, 2012)

I use my PT Quad because it's what I have and it seems to do the job but wondered what else people used. I would think you'd want a very lightweight headlight that provides a wide beam for the immediate ten feet in front of you as opposed to a thrower. I've had the quad for a few years now. I had an older PT EOS but the beam wasn't wide enough for me.


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## robostudent5000 (Feb 5, 2012)

try looking at these two threads. hope they help.


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## JackJ (Feb 5, 2012)

Black Diamond Sprinter for roads; Zebralight H600 for trails.


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## ryguy24000 (Feb 6, 2012)

I have to say that there have been many requests for info on a running/jogging head lamp in the past 6 months. I am wondering if we should sticky a thread just for this category? Or maybe a sub form? 
I tried to ask the same question a while back here with the intended reason of starting some kind of reference for the subject, but didn't get too many responces. Anyway just thinking out loud I guess.


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## gajslk (Feb 6, 2012)

The sun.


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## borrower (Feb 7, 2012)

gajslk said:


> The sun.



I've been googling, but I couldn't find that product. Is it a custom? Where can I buy one?


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## robostudent5000 (Feb 7, 2012)

borrower said:


> I've been googling, but I couldn't find that product. Is it a custom? Where can I buy one?



dont' bother. it's useless for running at night.


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## Norman (Feb 7, 2012)

robostudent5000 said:


> dont' bother. it's useless for running at night.


Thus, you should include "night" with "sun" when searching. Try "nightsun" in the search box, and you'll find something.

Hmmm....I had originally intended this as a joke, as the NightSun I remember was connected to a helicopter. They do appear to sell smaller, more compact lights now, including a headlamp.
http://www.night-sun.com/htmldocs/civilian.html


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## beepx1 (Feb 7, 2012)

I have both a zebralight H600 and a Spark ST-6. The zebralight is lighter weight and compact, but I find it slightly too floody for technical trail running. The spark is a bit heavier, but has more throw for trails. They are both great lights, but I think I prefer the Spark for trails.


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## v0idware.prohibited (Feb 9, 2012)

I respectfully disagree. More flood and less hotspot on the H600w and it would make a great headlamp for mountain running or for running of any sort.

When running all out (in a race for example) a fast runner never looks more than 15 to 20 feet in front of themselves on the trail with their vision usually falling 5 to 10 feet in front of them. If the 10 degree hotspot were eliminated and the light were just an 80 degree flood, and the headband were a little less floppy and possibly had a strap over the top of the head, the H600w would be the competitive mountain runners dream. 

The hotspot on the H600w makes it useless for running. In my case that hotspot would be burned into my vision right from the start of the race and after the sun comes up and I'd still have another 90 miles to cover, with some pretty messed up vision.


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## gajslk (Feb 10, 2012)

v0idware.prohibited said:


> When running all out (in a race for example) a fast runner never looks more than 15 to 20 feet in front of themselves on the trail with their vision usually falling 5 to 10 feet in front of them.



Sorry dude, but I run trails all the time. Running fast on anything technical and only looking 5 - 20 feet ahead will get you hurt in a hurry. At least in the mountains where I run. Try 10 - 30 feet most of the time. If you don't know the trail well, a 30 foot horizon will slow you down.

Edited to add: Bombing down a hill, you're moving at more than 15 feet per second. Things can happen in a hurry. If you're on that kind of terrain, buy the same headlamp that a mountain biker would. Then you only have to deal with the flat vision you get when your light source is near your eyes. It's a PITA. I run in the daytime.


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## v0idware.prohibited (Feb 11, 2012)

gajslk said:


> Sorry dude, but I run trails all the time. Running fast on anything technical and only looking 5 - 20 feet ahead will get you hurt in a hurry. At least in the mountains where I run. Try 10 - 30 feet most of the time. If you don't know the trail well, a 30 foot horizon will slow you down.
> 
> Edited to add: Bombing down a hill, you're moving at more than 15 feet per second. Things can happen in a hurry. If you're on that kind of terrain, buy the same headlamp that a mountain biker would. Then you only have to deal with the flat vision you get when your light source is near your eyes. It's a PITA. I run in the daytime.



I think we have different definitions of "technical." When a trail drops 1000 or 2000 ft in one mile over talus and granite fields the only way a runner could hit 10mph is if they've tripped and started to roll down the side of the mountain. Sure, even in Ultras, front-runners will on occasion be hitting 6 min miles, but that sort of thing would only happen a handfull of times in flat fast races like the Rocky Raccoon (extremely non-technical) or on a fire-road. At the Hardrock 100 for example, where Skaggs holds the course record of 23 hours 23 mins or an average of ~4.2 mph, looking 30 feet ahead will only ensure that you know which rock you're going to face plant into on the way down. 

There isn't anyone running Ultras competitively (meaning competing, not just completing) who uses a headlamp with a hotspot, they're just not ideal.

Edited to add: If you run only in the daytime, as you've stated, then you've never done any serious mountain running; running at night is unavoidable in a race that takes 24 hours to complete. That being the case perhaps handing out advice on headlamps for nighttime running isn't really your field of expertise.


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## robostudent5000 (Feb 11, 2012)

v0idware.prohibited said:


> IIf the 10 degree hotspot were eliminated and the light were just an 80 degree flood, and the headband were a little less floppy and possibly had a strap over the top of the head, the H600w would be the competitive mountain runners dream.



H600w + DC Fix + make yourself one of these headbands = problem solved.


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## gajslk (Feb 11, 2012)

v0idware.prohibited said:


> I think we have different definitions of "technical." When a trail drops 1000 or 2000 ft in one mile over talus and granite fields the only way a runner could hit 10mph is if they've tripped and started to roll down the side of the mountain.
> 
> There isn't anyone running Ultras competitively (meaning competing, not just completing) who uses a headlamp with a hotspot, they're just not ideal.
> 
> Edited to add: If you run only in the daytime, as you've stated, then you've never done any serious mountain running; running at night is unavoidable in a race that takes 24 hours to complete. That being the case perhaps handing out advice on headlamps for nighttime running isn't really your field of expertise.



I think we have different definitions for "fast".  I can believe that it's a good headlamp for ultras. You start slow and usually uphill. If you're still running when it gets dark again, by definition, you're not fast. LOL I was thinking more along the lines of before or after work runs.

As to the pitch, I've dropped 1500 feet in half a mile and agree that there's no way you could run fast on that and live. But there's everything between that and flat smooth dirt trail that's down hill. Somewhere in there, a fast runner can hit some high speeds. With plenty of rocks about if he's skilled. If you're not looking well ahead, you're in trouble. 

A to "serious" mountain running, go run 5 minute miles down a rough 1000 foot per mile trail at high noon and tell me it's not serious. 

So yes, I don't run at night, so I'm not recommending a specific headlamp. But if he runs fast on the trails I'm used to, he's going to get hurt if he can't see the trail at 30 feet as if it was daytime. That's all.


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## v0idware.prohibited (Feb 11, 2012)

gajslk said:


> If you're still running when it gets dark again, by definition, you're not fast. LOL


 Even at world record marathon pace it would take 8+ hours to cover 100 miles and marathon courses exhibit very little elevation change, usually negative elevation. Covering 100 miles at the Hardrock 100 in 24 hours, 3x's longer than it would take at world record marathon pace, while summiting 6 or 7 mountains along the way, with 66,000 feet of elevation change and an elevation profile between 10,000 and 14,000 feet (the summit of Mount Rainer is only ~400 feet higher in elevation) is pretty damn fast, and pretty damn technical. Even drawing this comparison however is akin to comparing Haile Gebrselase to Usain Bolt. 

As the elevation change starts to drop off the numbers also start changing. The Western States 100 has a mere 44,000 feet of elevation change and the course record there is 15 hours. 

Most competitive Ultra runners could run a ~2:20 marathon, even by marathon standards we are fast enough to qualify for the Olympic trials.


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## v0idware.prohibited (Feb 11, 2012)

robostudent5000 said:


> H600w + DC Fix + make yourself one of these headbands = problem solved.


 I've tried searching around for DC Fix and although I've found it mentioned a few times I can't figure out what it is besides some kind of tape or film that you put over the lens. Could you enlighten me please? Thanks.


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## vaska (Feb 11, 2012)

robostudent5000 said:


> H600w + DC Fix + make yourself one of these headbands = problem solved.



To feel the headlamp really comfortably stuck to one's head it's better to find something like this, or this, or this, or those.

As for light distribution of sport headlights, a year ago a local beamshot session was held to compare the most popular sport headlamps in Russia. Several testers came to a conclusion that the most comfortable for running/orienteering/rogaining/skiing/biking are samples 4, 7 and 8 and numbers 1, 2 and 3 (with reflector optics) - the worst because of distinct peripheral border between light and darkness which provokes discomfort for peripheral vision.


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## robostudent5000 (Feb 11, 2012)

v0idware.prohibited said:


> I've tried searching around for DC Fix and although I've found it mentioned a few times I can't figure out what it is besides some kind of tape or film that you put over the lens. Could you enlighten me please? Thanks.



DC Fix is a contact paper designed to provide light diffusion on bathroom windows. it's textured polyurethane backed by heat and moisture resistant adhesive. the main US vendor for this stuff seems to be Berlin Wallpaper who sells the stuff in rolls, but a couple guys at CPFMarketplace sell small sheets of it pretty cheap. when used on glass, it goes on easy and comes off pretty clean. when applied to the lens of a flashlight that has a reflector, it just about doubles the size of the hotspot, blends it better with the spill, and softens the hard edge on the spill with only a minimal loss of output. 

when i tried it on a Xeno E03 XML, it basically turned the beam into a wall of light. the hotspot on the Xeno is already pretty big and diffused, and the DC Fix made it so that i really couldn't tell the difference between hotspot and spill anymore. about 1' from a whitewall, i could tell a little, but 10' away and farther, i couldn't tell a difference. 

when i tried it on a P60 XML, the difference between hotspot and spill was a little more noticeable, but when outside and looking at anything more than a few feet away, it was hard to tell. it wasn't the seamless wall of light i got from the Xeno, but it was still pretty floody and diffused.

the reflector on the Xeno is 18-19 mm wide. the reflector on a P60 is like 26-27mm wide. i don't have a H600 but i think the reflector is somewhere in between those two in size and i assume the beam is about half way in between those two. if that's true, the DC Fix would still leave the H600 with a little bit of a hotspot up close but it would probably be very hard to notice when looking at things 10 feet and farther away outside. it should be very effective at turning the H600 beam into a not-quite-but-almost seamless wall of light.

btw, i'd be pretty surprised if the hotspot on the H600 was actually 12 degrees as Zebralight claims. it looks a lot bigger than that in the beamshots i've seen. plus, the hotspot on my P60 XML which has a much wider and deeper reflector was around 15 degrees. i don't think the H600's hotspot would be smaller than that.


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## robostudent5000 (Feb 12, 2012)

vaska said:


> To feel the headlamp really comfortably stuck to one's head it's better to find something like this, or this, or this, or those.



i've always thought that those neoprene harnesses were really cool, especially how the Lupine and Vaska (yours) harnesses are built to cradle the back of the head. it'd be nice if there was a way to make something similar to that on a low budget - i think the Lupine harness costs over $50 here in the US.


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## vaska (Feb 12, 2012)

It really matters in long races when after a couple of hours you begin to hate this tight elastic band... And during winter training (which is topical for Russia) elastic band use to gather your knitted cap at the crown 
You are right about worse ventilation of such headbands, but it really matters at temperatures higher than 25C. By the way, they are not of inpenetrable neoprene, as you wrote, but mostly made of non-allergic ethilenvinilacetate (EVA).
One can easily make such a headgear out of EVA mouse carpet. If anyone tries, I can send a vector pattern of it by e-mail.

About light pattern: I never felt comfortable to run with reflector light, but TIR-optics on contrary seems to be ideal for such purpose. There's a lot of TIR-lenses that form a wonderful light pattern with extremely bright hotspot decreasing smoothly to wide peripherial flood. When you aim such a headlamp at a point some 300 feet ahead you get a unifirmly illuminated track from your feet to the distant target.


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## robostudent5000 (Feb 12, 2012)

vaska said:


> It really matters in long races when after a couple of hours you begin to hate this tight elastic band... And during winter training (which is topical for Russia) elastic band use to gather your knitted cap at the crown
> You are right about worse ventilation of such headbands, but it really matters at temperatures higher than 25C. By the way, they are not of inpenetrable neoprene, as you wrote, but mostly made of non-allergic ethilenvinilacetate (EVA).
> One can easily make such a headgear out of EVA mouse carpet.



mouse pad... i'm gonna have to look into that now. thanks for the tip!


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