# The Surefire L1 Evolution



## MorpheusT1 (Feb 2, 2007)

I was wondering if someone here has all the diffrent Gen Surefire L1 lights produced.
Maybe a Picture of the evolution.
Maybe describing the diffrences and improvements.


I noticed the Current newest version has the longer Clip.
I was kindof dissapointed with that as i like the shorter better.



Benny


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## Xrunner (Feb 2, 2007)

I don't know about all but I have 4+ steps in the evolution including at least one of the very early ones (SN<50.) Many have different tailcaps, threading, and/or clips and one is even black HA-III (although I don't think I would call that a step of the line evolution). 

I'll try to pull them all out for a group shot and some more details later this weekend if you would like... cool idea BTW. I've been around a long time and to my knowledge no one have ever asked.


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## MorpheusT1 (Feb 2, 2007)

Thanks for the reply,


I really like the Surefire L1 and i have decided to try to source out all the diffrent Gen lights for my collection.
The size and expecially the usefullness of the low and long runtime appeals to me.
I have a really old one on the way here,not sure about the serial and look other than that it has the smaller non scalloped bezel.
Its not bone stock,master milkyspit swapped the Green Luxeon for a TV1J before he sent it my way.
I also have the newest Gen with KL1 look head which has the Tight beam and a Long clip.


If you could take some pictures and explain diffrences between yours that would be awsome 


Benny


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## MorpheusT1 (Feb 3, 2007)

Bump!


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## Illum (Feb 3, 2007)

sounds like a job for size15s,,,,


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## Chao (Feb 3, 2007)

I am glad to know the current version of L1 has longer clip, I love my L1 with optic very much, but the clip is the short style, I like the long one like A2, I think it's more useful to me!


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Feb 3, 2007)

I had a latest-gen L1 and it had the same clip as my ML1, which is first-gen body style. I don't think I've ever seen an L1 with a long clip.


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## DaFABRICATA (Feb 5, 2007)

I want one sooo bad! I'd like to see some pics as well!!!!!!!


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## jumpstat (Feb 5, 2007)

Hi guys,

I do not have many lites. But my last purchase was an L1. And I am very, very happy with its performance, looks, feel and justified price (bought it of a cpf'er). With the new version round the corner and having specs like output 10/65, high runtime, longer clip like A2, well its even more value added I would say.

I do not have the priviledge to own a milky ML1 as where I am, but from the feedback from owners it A+. I think if we were to buy a full set from milky its like USD180 or something like that. Nonetheless, I am quite happy with the one I'm having and edc'ing everyday.

Personally, it looks much better with the square body rather than the current round body IMO. 

My wish is that the L1 is made shorter to about 4 to 4.5 inches in length and retaining the 1.1 low stage but having high stage to about 50 should be enough. Output with the TIR optics in L1 is much better then my KL1 (milky MLi uses reflectors) on E1L but the size of E1L is minute compared to L1.

BTW, new L1 running on 1xSF123 or 2xSF123? 

Would it be nice if Surefire comes out with a Defender version of L1.....Cool Eh?!


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## milkyspit (Feb 9, 2007)

This is by no means an exhaustive list... and I don't have photos, sorry... but here's a start!

*SureFire L1 Evolution*

Gen1: Body has four flats. Head is short and tapered. Lens is flat. Bezel is plain (NOT scalloped). Optic is NX05. Emitter is Luxeon low dome.

Gen2: Like gen1 but bezel is scalloped. I believe some of these came with the SureFire lanyard and attachment in the box. Somewhere along the way the box style changed from cardboard box with lid to cardboard one-piece box with top and bottom flats, internal plastic tray, and clear plastic window through which the L1 is visible.

Gen3: Like gen2 but emitter is Luxeon high dome. Note that optic is still NX05.

Gen4: Head switched to larger, KL4-like head with TIR optic, domed lens, and Luxeon (III?) emitter. Body is still the four flats version. These seem to be relatively rare! Probably a short production run before switching to the newer, rounded body.

Gen5: Like gen4 but body is rounded (no flats).

Gen6: (shown at SHOT 2007) Body seems to be 25% shorter than gen5. Head seems to be a little shorter than gen5 head, with emitter switched to Cree XR-E and optic switched to something similar in appearance to a Fraen LP optic... it appears to have a hole in the center that goes all the way through, although that may not in fact be the case (looked like it did to me, but Size15s reports not)... one can look directly at the emitter dome through this apparent hole.


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## Alin10123 (Feb 9, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> This is by no means an exhaustive list... and I don't have photos, sorry... but here's a start!
> 
> *SureFire L1 Evolution*
> 
> ...



Did you get a chance to switch the light on and play witht he generation 6 L1? How was it compared to the ML1 xre?

thanks


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## MorpheusT1 (Feb 9, 2007)

Thanks for posting your findings/knowlege here.


I`ll try to snap a picture of my First Gen L1 and my 5th gen L1 With long clip by the weekend.


The first Gen has been subject to a McR18 and Seoul P4 Mod im afraid...So its not completely stock anymore.


Off topic

How hard is it to swap the TIR for a MCR20 in the 5th Gen L1 btw?
Ive tryed unscrewing but it wont budge..

Same goes for lense,what will be the apropriate to use?




Benny


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## Flashdark (Feb 9, 2007)

Interesting!

*Milky*, have you given any thought as to what you can do with the new L1 to make it even better?!?! I'm always in the market for one of your ungrades!

Flashdark sends,
Flashdark spends, again.


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## matrixshaman (Feb 9, 2007)

Interesting! Is the LED actually exposed or does it still have some optic over it at the bottom of this hole? Sounds like a very innovative optic and I like the 25% shorter - sounds like one to add to the want list.


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## alantch (Feb 10, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> This is by no means an exhaustive list... and I don't have photos, sorry... but here's a start!
> 
> *SureFire L1 Evolution*
> 
> ...









So I guess these are Gen2/3 and Gen4 L1s? The one on the left is of course a Milky'd L1 with UX0J :naughty: and the right one is stock.


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## MorpheusT1 (Feb 11, 2007)

Here is some pictures of my SF L1`s




First a Gen 1 without scallops on the bezel and with the Square body.
Emitter is replaced with a SSC P4 and that is a Cutdown McR18 you see in the head.















Next is a 5th Gen L1 with the long Clip and Rounded body.












Sorry it took so long,
Benny


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## jumpstat (Feb 14, 2007)

Nice Picture, Thanks


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## milkyspit (Feb 18, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> This is by no means an exhaustive list... and I don't have photos, sorry... but here's a start!
> 
> *SureFire L1 Evolution*
> 
> ...




Some photos to go with some of the above...

_Gen1 Box Front_





_Gen1 Box Back_





_Gen1 Box Inside_





_Gen1 Flashlight_





_Gen1 Angled with NX05 Optic Visible_





_Gen1 Look Into NX05 Optic_





_Closeup of 4-Flats Body (Gen1-Gen4)_





_Gen3 Flashlight_





_Milky L1 (Gen3 Host)_





_Milky L1 SEOULmated, Look Into Head (Gen3 Host)_





_Gen4 Flashlight_





_Gen5 Box Front_





_Gen5 Box Back_





_Gen5 Flashlight with Included Lanyard_





_Gen5 Look Into TIR Optic_





_Gen5 Closeup on Domed Lens_


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## scubasteve1942 (Feb 18, 2007)

Thanks for the great pics guys!


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## JNewell (Mar 13, 2007)

Pictures of my very late Gen 3 L1-HA-WH and my early Gen 1 L1-BK-RD. Interestingly, the red has a very different, much tighter beam than the white.


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## Size15's (Apr 8, 2007)

Note that SureFire do not use the term "TIROS" - "TIROS" is an Inova brand name.
SureFire uses TIR optics.

Note that the new L1 (with shorter body, new bezel with Cree XR-E LED features a new TIR optic and it does not have a hole through the middle. At least the ones at SHOT Show 2007 didn't.

Did any of the "Gen 1" L1's ever come with the old style TailCap?
(none of the L1's photo'd above show it. Perhaps it was just the A2...)

Nice work showing the evolution in photos btw!

Al


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## milkyspit (Apr 8, 2007)

Size15's said:


> Note that SureFire do not use the term "TIROS" - "TIROS" is an Inova brand name.
> SureFire uses TIR optics.
> 
> Note that the new L1 (with shorter body, new bezel with Cree XR-E LED features a new TIR optic and it does not have a hole through the middle. At least the ones at SHOT Show 2007 didn't.
> ...




Al, made a couple edits to my post above in light of your comments, thanks. 

What is this old style tailcap you mention? Not sure that I've ever seen one.


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## Size15's (Apr 8, 2007)




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## JNewell (Apr 12, 2007)

Interesting. I just acquired a Milky-modded L1 that is #01576 and it doesn't have the A2-type tailcap. (That's assuming it still has its original tailcap, of course, which I can't prove.)


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## milkyspit (Apr 12, 2007)

JNewell said:


> Interesting. I just acquired a Milky-modded L1 that is #01576 and it doesn't have the A2-type tailcap. (That's assuming it still has its original tailcap, of course, which I can't prove.)




What's it got on it? Any chance you could share a photo? :thinking:


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## JNewell (Apr 12, 2007)

Yes, but you've already seen this L1 - it's the ML1 you modified for Skalomax!  The tailcap on it is the same as the other two in my pics above. I'll do a family portrait soon. This one is obviously one of the first, and the HA one in my pics above is one of the last, of the old 4-sqare/non-TIR L1 lights.


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## milkyspit (Apr 12, 2007)

JNewell said:


> Yes, but you've already seen this L1 - it's the ML1 you modified for Skalomax!  The tailcap on it is the same as the other two in my pics above. I'll do a family portrait soon. This one is obviously one of the first, and the HA one in my pics above is one of the last, of the old 4-sqare/non-TIR L1 lights.




Hope you like it! I kinda liked that one myself. 

It is the original tailcap on that one, I am absolutely sure of that.


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## benchmade_boy (Apr 13, 2007)

Milky- what do you do with all the old L1 boxes that you mod? i didnt think you send them with the light, but maybe you do, or do you have a room in your house filled with them boxes?


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## milkyspit (Apr 13, 2007)

benchmade_boy said:


> Milky- what do you do with all the old L1 boxes that you mod? i didnt think you send them with the light, but maybe you do, or do you have a room in your house filled with them boxes?



BB, actually I do send 'em with the factory boxes! The box fits just about perfectly inside one of the post office's Priority Mail cardboard boxes.

But I do have a walk-in closet in our guest bedroom that's, er... well, let's just say it's not so walk-in anymore!


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## JNewell (Apr 13, 2007)

Scott, thanks for the info on Skalo's ML1. Question on the bezel - with a number that low, I think it should have been non-scalloped, but this one has the scallops, so I would guess it's not the original bezel?

Another question: is there a primer or treatise  somewhere on the McR reflectors?


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## milkyspit (Apr 13, 2007)

JNewell said:


> Scott, thanks for the info on Skalo's ML1. Question on the bezel - with a number that low, I think it should have been non-scalloped, but this one has the scallops, so I would guess it's not the original bezel?
> 
> Another question: is there a primer or treatise  somewhere on the McR reflectors?




*Question on the bezel - with a number that low, I think it should have been non-scalloped, but this one has the scallops, so I would guess it's not the original bezel?*

No, that's the bezel which came with the light, unless I somehow mixed them up while cleaning (which is always possible). My understanding is that SureFire serial numbers aren't necessarily sequential... so it's entirely possible that something with a lower number could in fact have been manufactured AFTER something with a higher number. I think they do this so competitors don't know exactly how many of a given item SureFire has sold.
:shrug:

*Another question: is there a primer or treatise  somewhere on the McR reflectors?*

If memory serves, Kiessling maintains a FAQ thread on the McR series reflectors. (Bernie, you lurking out there? Anything to add?)

You also might find some information over here...

*Milky L1 Info Thread*


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## greenLED (Sep 27, 2007)

Looks like mine's a Gen 5, soon to get a Gen 6. 

Still debating whether I should do a SSC mod to that Gen 5... :thinking:


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## DM51 (Sep 27, 2007)

Good thread - interesting info, nice pics. I didn't know there had been that many changes. No doubt the later versions are improved, but the Gen 1 was by far the nicest looking.


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## Nathan (Sep 28, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> This is by no means an exhaustive list... and I don't have photos, sorry... but here's a start!
> 
> *SureFire L1 Evolution*
> 
> ...


 
I never knew there were this many variations. Mine seems to be a Gen4.

Based on Milky's excellent info above, I believe this is how the output/runtimes match up:

Gen 1-3 (info from 2005 catalog)
Low: 0.7 lumen 50 hours
High: 15 lumens 2 hours

Gen 4-5 (2006?)
Low: 1.1 lumen 90 hours
High: 22 lumens 4 hours

Gen 6 (2007)
Low: 10 lumens 16 hours
High: 65 lumens 1.5 hours

Does this look right?


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## milkyspit (Sep 28, 2007)

Here's a photo I'd snapped recently of various L1 bodies, along with a couple friends...






Note the gen6 (L1 Cree, #5) host and how it relates sizewise to its peers: it's essentially the same length as the gen1 host (#4), and markedly shorter than the gen5 host (#3).


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## milkyspit (Sep 28, 2007)

Nathan said:


> Based on Milky's excellent info above, I believe this is how the output/runtimes match up:
> 
> Gen 1-3 (info from 2005 catalog)
> Low: 0.7 lumen 50 hours
> ...




Nathan, the curious thing is I recently measured current draw from the gen6 body vs. gen5 body, and they both behave identically. In other words, a gen6 head on a gen5 host should work exactly the same as a gen6 head on a gen6 host, just in a longer physical package. I think the SureFire numbers are to be taken with a grain of salt... they're mainly the result of marketing and other non-authoritative influences within SureFire, at least that's how it seems from my vantage point.


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## SunnyQueensland (Nov 18, 2007)

Hi,

anyone want to have a stab at what this is?

It seems like a gen5 but it has the longer clip. Or did I miss something? :thinking:

Regards


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## Size15's (Nov 18, 2007)

SunnyQueensland,
Do you have permission to hotlink that image?

Regarding that L1 - I guess SureFire experimented with putting the long clip on it... since the body is just about long enough


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## SunnyQueensland (Nov 18, 2007)

Size15's said:


> SunnyQueensland,
> Do you have permission to hotlink that image?
> 
> Regarding that L1 - I guess SureFire experimented with putting the long clip on it... since the body is just about long enough



Thanks for the info regarding my L1. :thumbsup:

I'm not sure about the whole permission thing though, it is my image, my flashlight and it is hosted by me. If I did something wrong though let me know so that I can fix it? :shrug:


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## Size15's (Nov 18, 2007)

SunnyQueensland said:


> Thanks for the info regarding my L1. :thumbsup:
> 
> I'm not sure about the whole permission thing though, it is my image, my flashlight and it is hosted by me. If I did something wrong though let me know so that I can fix it? :shrug:


Sorry, I didn't recognise the host as either a generic photo hosting site or a genuine flashlight manufacturer/dealer etc site so I thought it best to check.
Hotlinking images without permission of the host is bad form, and against the rules since it sucks bandwidth.


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## coloradogps (Nov 18, 2007)

How rare are Black L1s?

I have seen some photos of them on CPF.

Are they just the early generation?

Thanks...


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## Size15's (Nov 18, 2007)

coloradogps said:


> How rare are Black L1s?
> I have seen some photos of them on CPF.
> Are they just the early generation?
> Thanks...


I believe I've only ever seen one version in Black - the original L1 with LuxeonI.
Could have seen it with both flat and scallops though.... will check...

Checked: Most of the Black L1 photos I have are of the Scalloped version. Only one I could find showed the flat version (it was lower serial number too)


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## StainlessSteel (Nov 18, 2007)

i figured this would be a good place to ask this, since this is an evolution thread.

are there going to be new colored LED L1s? specifically, RED?

i am thinking about a red led L1, because i wanted the brightest red led light I could find, that was still kinda small, and takes 123a batteries. but is there going to be a new RED L1 based on a new red led?


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## gunga (Nov 18, 2007)

How easy is it to open up the L1 for LED modding?

Figured this would be a reasonable place to ask...


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Nov 18, 2007)

gunga said:


> How easy is it to open up the L1 for LED modding?



Not really easy at all. You have to heat the head somehow to break the thread locker they use. Some people boil it, some use heat guns, blow dryers, etc. Strap wrenches or leather straps are often involved. It takes a lot of patience to get it open without marring it. It's doable, though.


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## JNewell (Nov 18, 2007)

Search seems to be broken tonight, but somewhere here I've posted pics of my first version L1-BK-RD. It has a smooth bezel. The pic below shows it with one of Oregonshooter's tailcap rings.

Edit...try this:


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## milkyspit (Nov 19, 2007)

Those L1 HA-BK are gorgeous lights... wish I'd come across one! I've handled perhaps 100+ L1 hosts of various generations and have yet actually to see one other than in photos.

(sigh)


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## Wicho (Nov 30, 2007)

Great thread you guys have going on here. I'm just going to have to get one of the Cree L1's, but I will always love and never get rid of my two Chop modded L1's with TWOJ LuxIII's and S017X reflectors.


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## MikeM (Dec 2, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> Those L1 HA-BK are gorgeous lights... wish I'd come across one! I've handled perhaps 100+ L1 hosts of various generations and have yet actually to see one other than in photos.
> 
> (sigh)


 
Here's a black (M)L1 I'm sure you remember......the other 2 should look familiar too. :laughing:

Mike


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## DM51 (Dec 2, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> Those L1 HA-BK are gorgeous lights... wish I'd come across one! I've handled perhaps 100+ L1 hosts of various generations and have yet actually to see one other than in photos.


They sometimes hang out with other HA-BK items...


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## Wicho (Dec 7, 2007)

Hmmm...that black A2 with the ding in the bezel looks familiar...


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## DM51 (Dec 7, 2007)

Wicho said:


> Hmmm...that black A2 with the ding in the bezel looks familiar...


Lol, perhaps serial #14992 brings back a few memories?


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## h2xblive (Dec 10, 2007)

SunnyQueensland said:


> Hi,
> 
> anyone want to have a stab at what this is?
> 
> ...




Wow, it's good to know I'm not the only one with a long-clip L1!

That looks exactly like mine!


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## darkpeak (Jan 6, 2008)

Can someone tell me how to tell the difference between the Gen2(Luxeon low dome) and the Gen3(Luxeon High dome) so I can determine which Gen one of mine is. I am trying to source all the generations that Milky has listed. So far I think I've got a Gen2/3, Gen2/3 ML1, Gen4 on the way, Gen5 and Gen6.
When I get them all together and a working digital camera I will post some pictures, if I can work out how to get them online.


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## milkyspit (Jan 6, 2008)

darkpeak said:


> Can someone tell me how to tell the difference between the Gen2(Luxeon low dome) and the Gen3(Luxeon High dome) so I can determine which Gen one of mine is. I am trying to source all the generations that Milky has listed. So far I think I've got a Gen2/3, Gen2/3 ML1, Gen4 on the way, Gen5 and Gen6.
> When I get them all together and a working digital camera I will post some pictures, if I can work out how to get them online.




Biggest difference is the look of the beam: the low dome will give a floody purple and/or green-tinged beam... the high dome will be whiter but also show a distinct circle-in-square artifact on a white wall. (It looks just like the it sounds.)

Also, the high dome version may have been the first to include the lanyard attachment on the tailcap, but IMHO that's not reliable information because it's common for folks to attach and detach these from their lights.


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## darkpeak (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks for that Scott, I new this would be your field. Looks like it's a Gen2(low dome), the beam has a purple tinted hotspot with gradually diminishing green tinted spill with 2 or 3 artifact rings. My came like new in a box with the plastic viewing window and included the lanyard and lanyard ring.


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## greenLED (Jan 6, 2008)

Heya, guys, any info on when/why/how the latest L1 Cree switched from frosted to smooth optic (or is it the window?). 

My wife's L1 Cree has frosted opticalware and the one I got for Christmas is smooth.


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## darkpeak (Jan 6, 2008)

The differences between the L1 Cree frosted and clear is mentioned in the following threads. Hope this helps greenLED.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/170001
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/169306


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## greenLED (Jan 6, 2008)

yes, it does - :thanks: darkpeak

Yup, wife's a frosted optic/window, mine's got a "lightly frosted" one (what some people are calling "clear", it seems). Other than a slightly more focused hotspot, and a slightly warmer tint on my L1 I can't see any real differences in the beam.


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## JNewell (Jan 6, 2008)

I started one of those threads and followed it for a long time...my recollection is that there was really no pattern that emerged, which suggested ordinary process variation.


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## The Coach (Jan 19, 2008)

So, I went to Rays Sport Shop to get an L1 today, but no one could tell me if the one they had was a Gen 6. It doesn't come in a box, it comes in a bubble on cardboard. How can I tell if I'm getting the latest version? How big is the center section in the newest model? I noticed that it looks smaller than the older model, but I nothing to compare it to. :thinking:


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## Size15's (Jan 19, 2008)

The Coach said:


> So, I went to Rays Sport Shop to get an L1 today, but no one could tell me if the one they had was a Gen 6. It doesn't come in a box, it comes in a bubble on cardboard. How can I tell if I'm getting the latest version? How big is the center section in the newest model? I noticed that it looks smaller than the older model, but I nothing to compare it to. :thinking:


First of all - "Gen 6" is a CPF invention - not SureFire terminology so it'll be meaningless to well, everybody really.

So for me the most obvious way to tell if it's a current L1 is by the body - specifically the styling - there is a 'raised ring/band' that is maybe 1-2mm thick at the TailCap-end. There is a notch in it. The pocketclip almost reaches it.
In the old versions this band was 5-6mm (guessing) thick and the short pocketclip didn't come close to reaching it.

Another way is to check out the thickness of the bezel wall by looking into the front - the current L1/KX1/KX2 have obviously thick bezel walls.


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## darkpeak (Jan 20, 2008)

I really like the L1 because it's got a great combination of compact size, two brightness levels that gives the user the option of high output with shorter runtime or lower output with a longer runtime. So far I have managed to obtain 4 of the generations that Milky has listed in one of the previous posts and I would like to add these to the thread for the information of others. I am no expert so if I have made any mistakes, please correct me and I will edit the post.

The first pictures are of a second/third generation L1 that has been modified by Milky into his famous ML1 guise, but demonstrates the four flat body, smaller head, scalloped bezel and the original packaging.



 



The second set of pictures show a second/third generation L1, again with the four flat body,NX05 optic in the smaller head with the scalloped bezel. According to the SF catalogue it had an estimated 10 to 20 lumens, with a runtime of 1 hour on high and over 150 hours on low. The packaging has now changed to a box with a clear plastic window.



 




The third picture shows a fourth generation L1 that is slightly longer because of the longer head with TIR optic, the body has four flat sides. The specifications for this version should be 22 lumens for high and around 90 hours runtime on low. I have not got the packaging for this light but it appears from pictures that it was in a box with a clear plastic window.





The fourth set of pictures are of the fifth generation L1 that has now got the rounded body with the larger head and the TIR optic. The L1 that I have has the long clip but it appears as if some were supplied with the shorter one. Runtimes and outputs for this L1 from the packaging are 22 lumens on high and 90 hours runtime on low. Packaging is now the plastic clamshell type with the cardboard sleeve



 



The fifth set of pictures are of the sixth generation L1 which now has the cree emitter, TIR optic and a compact rounded body. Surefires figures for this version were 10 lumens on low and 65 lumens on high with a useful runtime of 16 hours. Packaging is the plastic clamshell with the cardboard sleeve.



 



Finally a group shot.




As Al stated these generations are Milky's interpretation of the development of the L1, not Surefires.


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## Tempest UK (Jan 20, 2008)

Nice comparison pic, DarkPeak. Thanks for posting 

Regards,
Tempest


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## JNewell (Jan 20, 2008)

The Coach said:


> So, I went to Rays Sport Shop to get an L1 today, but no one could tell me if the one they had was a Gen 6. It doesn't come in a box, it comes in a bubble on cardboard. How can I tell if I'm getting the latest version? How big is the center section in the newest model? I noticed that it looks smaller than the older model, but I nothing to compare it to. :thinking:


 
I believe that the Cree version has a prominent sticker on the packaging that says something like "New - Brighter" (in a few more words).

Edit - see the last package in Darkpeak's excellent photo post above.


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## Tempest UK (Jan 20, 2008)

JNewell said:


> I believe that the Cree version has a prominent sticker on the packaging that says something like "New - Brighter" (in a few more words).
> 
> Edit - see the last package in Darkpeak's excellent photo post above.



"Higher output - More runtime" if I recall correctly.

Regards,
Tempest

EDIT - yup, that picture shows it nicely


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## Nathan (Jan 20, 2008)

Tempest UK said:


> Nice comparison pic, DarkPeak. Thanks for posting


 
+1

Great post!


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## The Coach (Jan 20, 2008)

Thanks for all the help guys, I picked mine up today. :thumbsup: I've been so busy with the customs that I've sort of let the production lights slip. I think they were feeling left out.  Now, I'm impatiently waiting for the E1B and then I'll be done.


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## coloradogps (Jan 20, 2008)

Here's an example of a 1st Generation L1. It must have been an early one.

Note smooth bezel and ridges on front and rear end on tailcap.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 20, 2008)

That first gen L1 has a reflector. The first gen had an optic. Maybe it is just the angle.

Bill


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## coloradogps (Jan 20, 2008)

This one had a optic, until Milkyspit modded it.


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## The Coach (Jan 21, 2008)

Got mine yesterday. :thumbsup: I like it!! 
Here she is with her new friends.





A comparison shot.





And one in hand.





:devil:


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## darkpeak (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks for pointing out the differences in tailcap coloradogps, I had not noticed this before. Looks like yours and Al's(size15's) has these machined grooves but other early L1's pictured in the thread did'nt. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that both have serial numbers below 1000?


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## Size15's (Jan 21, 2008)

SureFire changed the two-stage pressure switch (Z62) design very early on in the A2/L1 product launch. Mine are pre-production samples. The change was made mostly to keep the o-ring covered when the TailCap was locked out.


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## dilbert (Jan 25, 2008)

Tempest UK said:


> "Higher output - More runtime" if I recall correctly.
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest
> ...



I just got a new L1 Cree and the packaging no longer has the yellow area with "new, higher output, more runtime." However, if you look at the specs on the bottom left corner of the package it has "10 lumen low, 65 lumen high, 16hours useful runtime."


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## DHart (Feb 2, 2009)

My just-received L1 Cree has packaging which does state "NEW-Higher Output-More Runtime". Serial # is A13289.

The SF battery is dated to expire 06-2018 (presumably manufactured 06-2008?).

Nice light! Interestingly, the flashlight finish has three distinctly different, but fairly close, colors.

The body tube is almost black in color whereas the head (bezel in SF terms) is dark greyish on the forward section and bronzish-greenish colored on the section which connects to the tube. Then the blackish tube. Then the tailcap is the same bronzish-greenish color as the rear section of the head. All tones are complimentary in color. The look is nice.

The head had a round white sticker on it, which I removed because I had no need for a round white sticker on the head. *Does anyone know what the white sticker on the head is intended to indicate about this flashlight?*

Output of this L1 cree on high is about 92% that of my new E1B on high, as measured at about 8', central to beam axis, with a digital light meter.

Color of the light with this L1 is quite noticibly warmish (a pale pink tone) compared to my new E1B, which is neutral in tone when viewed on it's own, and almost pale greenish looking when compared side-by-side to the pinkish tone of the L1's light.


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## Tempest UK (Feb 2, 2009)

DHart said:


> *Does anyone know what the white sticker on the head is intended to indicate about this flashlight?*



Output colour.

Regards,
Tempest


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## DHart (Feb 2, 2009)

Thanks, Tempest... I didn't realize that the L1 might be available with different colored LEDs.


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## JNewell (Feb 2, 2009)

The originals (still my favorite) and the second major variation were, IIRC, available also in red, green and blue.


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## milkyspit (Feb 2, 2009)

JNewell said:


> The originals (still my favorite) and the second major variation were, IIRC, available also in red, green and blue.




+1 on the original being my favorite too... I know the body is a little longer than the more recent couple revisions, but there's something really ergonomic about those four flat sides; they just feel really natural in one's fingers.
:thumbsup: 

As for colors: yes, the rev1 L1 was available in white, red, green, and blue. My guess is SureFire had some early ideas about selling swappable heads so you could buy the light then additional heads in different colors, but thought better of the idea... maybe because they were concerned about excessive warranty returns when end users would inadvertently attach loose heads to their E2E bodies, for example, fry the LED, then look to have the "defective" head replaced. That's just my personal speculation on things.


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## DHart (Feb 2, 2009)

Yes... seems to make a lot of sense to get your colors from an attachable filter, rather than have to replace the entire head, then you can have whatever you need at the moment without buying expensive heads. I guess some applications may require a single color full time, though.

I agree on the flat sided versions having a better look and feel. And if you're going to mod the heck out of the head anyway, probably doesn't matter that the early versions had such low output.

Any idea what SF is going to do for the upcoming L1 iteration?


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## milkyspit (Feb 2, 2009)

DHart said:


> Any idea what SF is going to do for the upcoming L1 iteration?




In what sense?


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## DaFABRICATA (Feb 2, 2009)

DHart said:


> Any idea what SF is going to do for the upcoming L1 iteration?


 


It will be replaced by the LX1.

Details can be found at Surefires website.


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## DHart (Feb 2, 2009)

Yes, thanks... I asked the question just as I was heading to SF's 2009 catalog... which answered my question... the LX1. A tiny bit shorter (negligible) and a modest bump in output. Perhaps I was too hasty buying my L1. Oh well, with a TLS head and 4v rechargeable cell, the L1 instantly turns into a little bit of a scorcher, if desired. Or I could send it to you, Milky, for something really special!


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## JNewell (Feb 3, 2009)

milkyspit said:


> +1 on the original being my favorite too... I know the body is a little longer than the more recent couple revisions, but there's something really ergonomic about those four flat sides; they just feel really natural in one's fingers.


 
And the best of the best is my old ML-1 !:thumbsup:


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## DHart (Feb 3, 2009)

milkyspit said:


> In what sense?



Milky... (or anyone with knowledge on mods) can you help answer a question for me? DO you see any reason that the L1's controller or electronics board in the new L1 would be damaged by my putting a TLS head on the light and using a 4v rechargeable cell?


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## saabgoblin (Feb 19, 2009)

:bow:For the love of the *Black* L1!!


DM51 said:


> They sometimes hang out with other HA-BK items...


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## Ny0ng1 (Jul 10, 2009)

Have someone tried an old Gen1/2 short head on Gen6 short body? if it works, it would be the shortest L1 , maybe even shorter than LX1


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## milkyspit (Jul 10, 2009)

Ny0ng1 said:


> Have someone tried an old Gen1/2 short head on Gen6 short body? if it works, it would be the shortest L1 , maybe even shorter than LX1



Yes, that combination does work although the old head really needs an upgrade to bring the performance in line with current technology. I've done some custom variants of my Milky L1 builds in exactly that configuration.
:thumbsup:


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## Team Member (Jul 10, 2009)

DM, is the E1e with the L1 head in direct drive?

No mods or something? Or...



DM51 said:


> They sometimes hang out with other HA-BK items...


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## DaFABRICATA (Jul 10, 2009)

Team Member said:


> DM, is the E1e with the L1 head in direct drive?
> 
> No mods or something? Or...


 

If its the one McGizmo modded, I own it now.

It has a LUX V and a driver in the head with a reflector.
The E2D tailcap has its guts ripped out and replaced with a McE2S 2-stage switch.:wave:


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## Team Member (Jul 10, 2009)

As I thought then...looked to good to be true..


Nice snag DaFab :thumbsup:


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## DM51 (Jul 10, 2009)

Team Member said:


> DM, is the E1e with the L1 head in direct drive?


LOL, I'm afraid I have no idea!


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## Ny0ng1 (Jul 11, 2009)

milkyspit said:


> Yes, that combination does work although the old head really needs an upgrade to bring the performance in line with current technology. I've done some custom variants of my Milky L1 builds in exactly that configuration.
> :thumbsup:



nice! pictures please.........................


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## saabgoblin (Mar 5, 2010)

Has anyone used a Surefire Diffuser and or filter on a 1st or second generation L1? Since mine is at home, I am assuming that it has a 1" bezel and the E1E, E2e...(SF#F03) filters say they fit 1" but there are also SF Filters for the Cree L1(SF#FM55) and I was wondering if any of you have any direct experience on an older L1.

Thank You


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## gswitter (Mar 5, 2010)

I use F04's on both a first gen L1 and a Cree L1. They work fine on both.


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## saabgoblin (Mar 5, 2010)

Thank You Gswitter, looking to grab a F05-Red for a Bug Out Bag. long live the 1st and 2nd Gen L1's.:thumbsup:


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Jun 26, 2011)

> The originals (still my favorite) and the second major variation were, IIRC, available also in red, green and blue.


 
Anybody know how late, revision-wise, the colored LED's were made? I've got an early red L1 (and a couple of whites) and see some NIB blue and green L1's popping up online recently.

Anyone? Bueller? Al?


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## Size15's (Jun 26, 2011)

I think there were two types of colour L1 bezel. The old style and the new style.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks as always Al. I'll try to snag a couple of the online deals and seewhat I get. I didn't follow the L1 that closely in recent years but at some point it seemed that the color models were discontinued, perhaps prior to the introduction of the Cree emitters. There seems to be a lot of NOS - New Old Stock hitting the market recently, perhaps earlier SF closeouts that were sold to distributors and other stuff from retailers that have shut down during the recession.


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## TIME1200 (Jul 6, 2011)

my L1


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Jul 9, 2011)

> I think there were two types of colour L1 bezel. The old style and the new style.


 
Was the Cree emitter ever put in the colored L1's? So far I've got various combinations of colored and white LED L1's in Gens 2 through 5. I've got a white Gen 6 L1, is the Gen 6 colored variant a Cree emitter or is it just the Gen 6 body with the earlier 'new style' head (Luxeon III and optic)? The last couple of dealer closeout L1's with colored emitters I received appear to be Gen 5's.


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## angelofwar (Jul 11, 2011)

Never seen, or heard mention of (even in the SF catalogs/website) of a 6th gen colored L1. They can be confusing though, since with out seeing the optic, they both fairly identical. Only colored variants I've seen have been the old aviator style bezels, and the newer style bezels, but with the domed optic as opposed to the TIR.

The only useful colored L1 is the red. How cool would an L1 YG be??? :devil:


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Jul 11, 2011)

> Never seen, or heard mention of (even in the SF catalogs/website) of a 6th gen colored L1.


 
Thanks AOW, I think I may have gotten the idea of a colored LED Gen 6 L1 from your comment on an earlier thread here:



> AFAIK, every generation of L1 were offered in red, including the most recent one (6th gen), before they discontinued it :0(.


 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-red-version&p=3673038&viewfull=1#post3673038


Some of the online retailers still list color selection with a picture of a Gen 6 L1 but often the web page designer uses manufacturer's clip art and copied text in the product description. The color selection may be from an earlier listing.



> The only useful colored L1 is the red. How cool would an L1 YG be??? :devil:


 
I've got an early red L1 and it's nice but lately my favorite has been a Gen 4 (flat sides, TIR Lux III head) green. It has nice levels to maintain dark adaptation and my acuity seems to be much better with the green light.


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## leon2245 (Sep 17, 2011)

Ny0ng1 said:


> Have someone tried an old Gen1/2 short head on Gen6 short body? if it works, it would be the shortest L1 , maybe even shorter than LX1


 
What about the opposite, the new head on a gen1 body? They all have the same electronics in the body?


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## LE6920 (Oct 16, 2011)

The difference between Gen 1,2 and 3 seem the most confusing. If I am reading this right Gen1 did not have the scalloped bezel and 2-3 did? What are the other differences between 1-2-3, tailcap? Thanks, this is a very informative thread.


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## archimedes (Oct 16, 2011)

LE6920 said:


> The difference between Gen 1,2 and 3 seem the most confusing. If I am reading this right Gen1 did not have the scalloped bezel and 2-3 did? What are the other differences between 1-2-3, tailcap? Thanks, this is a very informative thread.



Yes, I think that the main difference between Gen2 and Gen3 was just an emitter change. Gen4 and later had the new head and optic, Gen 5 and later had the new rounded body. Gen6 was much shorter, with both a new emitter and new optic. It is indeed confusing


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## akarc (Mar 5, 2012)

Can Gen5 use Gen6 head?
Thanks


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## ammd (Mar 8, 2012)

Hi,
my L1 cree came with old type Surefire laser logo and I saw one of my friends with new style of logo....are those 2 Flashlights being evolution also,Thanks
amd,...


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## Lucky Jim (May 3, 2012)

I stumbled across what appears to be an early 2nd gen L1 NIB on clearance this week so thought I'd better add it to my collection. Scalloped bezel, 4 flat sides, oldest emitter style, no lanyard or attachment ring, serial no. A00856, original style box - photo below (if I've managed to upload it! ... I'm new to this game). I'm impressed by the usefulness of the very low output on low setting - but wondering if I should keep it stock or mod it.


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## F250XLT (May 3, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> I stumbled across what appears to be an early 2nd gen L1 NIB on clearance this week so thought I'd better add it to my collection. Scalloped bezel, 4 flat sides, oldest emitter style, no lanyard or attachment ring, serial no. A00856, original style box - photo below (if I've managed to upload it! ... I'm new to this game). I'm impressed by the usefulness of the very low output on low setting - but wondering if I should keep it stock or mod it.




How much did you get it for? I like to keep the classics stock, but it also makes a great mod...All you really need is an emitter swap, and it makes a great light.


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## Lucky Jim (May 11, 2012)

I paid around $80 (but in £). Having used it for a while, I think I'll keep it stock as I have plenty of newer LEDs which can deliver some extra light if needed.


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## BenChiew (May 22, 2012)

What generation did the blue and green first appeared?
The 2005 and 2006 catalogs listed the availability of these 2 colors. The red appears thru all the generations.


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## archimedes (May 22, 2012)

Benchiew said:


> What generation did the blue and green first appeared?
> The 2005 and 2006 catalogs listed the availability of these 2 colors. The red appears thru all the generations.



There is an old archived *MorpheusT1 *thread with a photo that appears to show Gen1 red, blue, and green emitter lights in WTS (along with a Gen2/3 white and a Gen2/3 L1-BK-WH ! ) ... so seems that these were all available since Gen1.


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## BenChiew (May 27, 2012)

Wow. Didn't know that those existed


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## BenChiew (Jun 8, 2012)

I have a L1 Red Gen 2/3 four flats with flat lens. Unfortunately there was small chip on lens which I had it sent to Surefire. 
They fixed it and returned it back but it now have the tir rounded lens. 
Does this now make this a Gen 4?


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## milkyspit (Jun 8, 2012)

Benchiew said:


> I have a L1 Red Gen 2/3 four flats with flat lens. Unfortunately there was small chip on lens which I had it sent to Surefire.
> They fixed it and returned it back but it now have the tir rounded lens.
> Does this now make this a Gen 4?



Not certain without seeing a photo of the newly-returned light, but it sounds like they swapped your head for a newer one rather than trying to repair the head you already had. Not a big deal either way, just a shame to have lost the older head. (I'm biased here: the oldest-generation head remains one of my all-time favorite SureFire creations.)


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## BenChiew (Jun 9, 2012)

The top surface of the lens is flat although it looks rounded. I also noted that the beam now looks very even without any hotspots much like their headlamps. 
A friend looked at it and said the optics looked like the ones found in Malkoff's M60 drop ins.


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## BenChiew (Jun 9, 2012)

Surefire fixed the lens and also fixed the tail cap which was not so responsive. 
They also fixed a few other lights for me. 
If Surefire keeps this up, they have got me as customer for life.


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## milkyspit (Jun 12, 2012)

@Benchlew: it's still a gen2/gen3.


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## BenChiew (Jun 12, 2012)

Milky. Is the lens the same as found in gen 2/3?
I should have taken a picture before sending it off.


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## milkyspit (Jun 12, 2012)

Benchiew said:


> Milky. Is the lens the same as found in gen 2/3?
> I should have taken a picture before sending it off.




As far as I can see, it does appear the same.

(I think you're really asking if the OPTIC is the same, which does appear to be the case. The lens itself is flat on that generation head. The optic is plastic and is a separate piece, sealed inside the head, behind the lens.)


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## BenChiew (Jun 13, 2012)

Thanks for sharing that milky.


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## JNewell (Jun 13, 2012)

Slightly amazing, but nice, that they still had the parts!


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## recDNA (Feb 5, 2015)

Are all of these generations 22 lumens? I neglected to take a picture for comparison. Duh


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## Lucky Jim (Feb 8, 2015)

Wow - Thread from the dead!! Only the middle generations (4&5) were 22 lumens (on high). Earlier ones are lower and generation 6 is higher (65 lumens). Have a look at post no. 34 which summarises the output levels for different generations. Personally, I quite like the 22 lumens versions.


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## archimedes (Feb 8, 2015)

Lucky Jim said:


> Wow - Thread from the dead!! Only the middle generations (4&5) were 22 lumens (on high). Earlier ones are lower and generation 6 is higher (65 lumens). Have a look at post no. 34 which summarises the output levels for different generations. Personally, I quite like the 22 lumens versions.


Yes, Gen4/5 had incredible runtimes ...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/316124


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## Lucky Jim (Feb 8, 2015)

I think that I may have to pick up another one of these. I saw a gen 4 version (4 flats, 22 lumens high dome head) the other day as new stock in a hardware store but resisted the temptation. I'm going to have to go back now ...


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## scout24 (Feb 8, 2015)

There's a Miĺky modded L1 for sale right now...


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