# Why not more IMR 26650 Mag85 and ROPs?



## poormanq45 (Dec 12, 2009)

I have been looking through alot of threads lately and keep coming back to this.

IMR 26650s have a capacity of 3300mAh, 3.6V, and current limit of 5 amps.

To fit in to a Mag tube you simply require a sleeve.

Why don't more people use these instead of the expensive 6AA>2D and 9AA>3D adaptors? The adaptor cost exceeds the cost of three cells.


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## mvyrmnd (Dec 12, 2009)

You'd really only want to use them in a 2D ROP.

I use 2x18650 unprotected 2200mAh in my ROP. The tailcap current is ~4.3A* on full batteries (8.4V)

*I can't really remember, it's been a while, but I remember is was low 4's, keeping me at a safe 2C discharge.

That's more or less the limit of the cells I'm using.

Most of the feedback from using IMR's in ROP Mags is that if you use them fresh off the charger, you'll .

5A might be OK though. You may just need to sacrifice a bulb to the experiment gods...


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## lctorana (Dec 12, 2009)

Because 26650 cells are unobtainable.


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## lolzertank (Dec 12, 2009)

For many common "medium" (30-50W) power hotwires, like the Mag85, Mag5761 and ROP, the voltage of the IMR cells is simply too high.

I've heard that the 3853 (rather than 3854) ROP bulbs work well with IMR cells. 

@Lctorana: Batteryspace has some 4Ah 26650s at about $13 a cell.


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## bigchelis (Dec 12, 2009)

Kramer5150 uses a ROP with 26650 cells. They fit a 2D perfectly too. Now, a Mag85 with these cells would only be possible in a 3D or 4C Mag. I personally would rather stay in the 2D/2C Mag hosts range for sub 2000lumen hotwire builds.


They are out there, but not many posts.


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## fivemega (Dec 12, 2009)

poormanq45 said:


> I have been looking through alot of threads lately and keep coming back to this.
> 
> IMR 26650s have a capacity of 3300mAh, 3.6V, and current limit of 5 amps.
> 
> ...



*All batteries have voltage drop under load. Some more some less.
Voltage drop of IMR cells are less compare to lithium cobalt therefore voltage at the bulb may flash the bulb.
If anybody using fully recharged 2x26650 with ROP 3854 and happy with the brightness, most probably flashlight is stone age with some rust or corrosion on internal parts such as tail cap spring+contact, switch contacts, switch tower sliding+spring contacts and...
There is [size=+1]NO[/size] way any ROP 3854 can handle healthy 2x26650.
WA1185 is even more sensitive and can't handle healthy 3x18650 in fair condition M*glite.*


lctorana said:


> Because 26650 cells are unobtainable.


*Maybe better say: 26650 cells are unobtainable with fair price in Australia.*


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## bigchelis (Dec 12, 2009)

fivemega said:


> *All batteries have voltage drop under load. Some more some less.*
> *Voltage drop of IMR cells are less compare to lithium cobalt therefore voltage at the bulb may flash the bulb.*
> *If anybody using fully recharged 2x26650 with ROP 3854 and happy with the brightness, most probably flashlight is stone age with some rust or corrosion on internal parts such as tail cap spring+contact, switch contacts, switch tower sliding+spring contacts and...*
> *There is [SIZE=+1]NO[/SIZE] way any ROP 3854 can handle healthy 2x26650.*
> ...


 

Soo far, 
I have been lucky running my ROP 3854 High with 2 IMR 26500 cells. They read 4.12v, not 4.20v.

For the sake of testing if the ROP 3854 H can handle the bigger 26650 IMR cells I will have to try it out. I will test the voltage of the cells and make sure they are topped off to be fair. Now cross your fingers for me:candle:


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## Benson (Dec 12, 2009)

Anyway, I have a 3x26700-in-3D Mag85, but never posted anything about it because it was such a boring build. In fact, I suspect this is the reason it _seems_ there's not many; while stuffing umpteen AAs, or even more exotic cells, in a Mag is "something to be proud of", especially if you DIY instead of burning money on a pre-built holder, only the most egotistical would bother posting "Hey guys, look at me, I can stuff a straight stack of batteries in a straight tube with a straight PVC pipe to center them!".

But yeah, if you don't mind going up to 3D for your Mag85, I think IMR26700 are the way to go, and if you need it in 2D, I'd go with IMR26500. The real reason that the 26mm cells haven't taken over the world, though, is the difficulty to build a Mag85 in 4C with 3x26700 -- if Mags were just that tiny bit bigger, I think a lot of folks would go for the thinner, lighter, and stronger option, which you can't do with AAs.



fivemega said:


> *WA1185 is even more sensitive and can't handle healthy 3x18650 in fair condition M*glite.*


Well, maybe, but mine runs great in a (almost brand new) stock 3D Mag with a Kiu socket (no soft-start or added resistance, but no resistance fixes, either) and deano tailcap, and 3 cells from a brand new Milwaukee V18 battery pack. Maybe 5 hours, and seeing a full charge on the batteries at least once per half-hour (sometimes fresh off the charger, sometimes rested), on average.

Now maybe the battery pack was NOS or something, but the cells do hold voltage fine after charging. Maybe I have a super-bulb, or maybe my Mag is abnormally high-resistance (sub-host?), but if it works completely stock for me, it should be close enough to easily work with an NTC mod if I were not so lucky, right? Certainly an NTC is cheaper and just about as easy to install as the popular AA holders.


Finally,


lctorana said:


> Because 26650 cells are unobtainable.


There weren't a whole lot in the usual places when I was shopping for them last, but you can buy power tool packs and rip them apart (what I did), and now the (better capacity, still plenty current for flashlights) ones at batteryspace. While I get that you're in Australia, and so shipping from batteryspace may kill that option, surely they sell Li-ion power tools down there?


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## Billy Ram (Dec 12, 2009)

In a light like my FM 3xIMR 26500 that has very little resistance life for the 1185 would be very risky and short lived. I took 3 IMR26500s that were charged to 4.19v. ea. After sitting a few days they still measured 4.16v./4.16v./4.17v.=12.49v. These batterys don't even get luke warm while charging and the voltage doesn't drop much while not in use. Using the FM1909 I measured a voltage of 11.63v. at the bulb drawing 5.45a. at the tail cap. With a current draw of 3.5a. "close to what the 1185 may draw" the voltage drop may be less. Driving the 1185 at 11.63v. would give you 1500-1600 bulb lumens and a very short bulb life if it doesn't flash. 
I have a new m*g85 with a few resistance mods that's quite bright with 9xAAs. After sitting over night from charging I'm reading 12.6v. With the 1185 I'm reading 11v. at the bulb drawing 3.35a. at the tail cap. This is about 1200-1300 bulb lumens and much kinder to the 1185. If I were to run IMRs in this light I would install a regulated driver.
Billy


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## poormanq45 (Dec 12, 2009)

oh, I didnt take the higher charge voltage in to consideration.

What Mag85 uses a 2D host? Mine uses 3D with 9AA.

Given this information, is it possible to use a regulated driver? If so, what would you recommend?


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## Mjolnir (Dec 12, 2009)

I have been running 2 26650s on a 2D host for some time now, both with the 3853H and 3854H bulbs. The ones from batteryspace are a true 4000 Mah. 

Lately I have been using the *3854H* bulb with* fully charged cells*, and it has *not blown on me* *yet*. The bulb is drawing 4.4 amps with fully charged cells, so it is not near the flashpoint of the bulb. The maglite probably has a fair amount of resistance, but it is by no means "stone age." In fact, it is no more than a few months old; I bought it brand new when I put the light together only a few months ago. I have only cut down the spring, but have done nothing else. I was going to do some resistance fixes and use the 3853H bulb, but the output would still be less than the 3854H bulb without the resistance fixes, and I would probably only gain about 20-25 minutes of runtime. 

The 3854H combination is plenty bright, and will no doubt last a lot longer than a 2D maglite with AA cells, which wastes a lot of space. The 26650s have essentially double the amp hour capacity of eneloops, and a higher watt hour capacity because of the higher nominal voltage. With 2 26650s you get more current to the bulb, so it is brighter as well. The 26650s are also only $13 apiece, so it should cost less than a setup with AA batteries and an expensive battery holder. 
I have been charging these cells with a PILA IBC, so I am pretty confident that it is not undercharging the batteries (it doesn't seem to be).

I have no idea if 3 cells will work with a Mag85, but I think FiveMega's 1909 bulb with 3 of these cells in a 3D maglite is probably better for a "wow" light, since it would likely have double the output of a normal Mag85. 3 of these cells fit fine in a 3D maglite with a very short spring.

Of course the 3853H bulb also works fine, but it only draws about 3.3-3.4 amps in my maglite with fully charged cells, so it is not as bright as the 3854H. However, it will no doubt last a lot longer than the 3854H in terms of bulb life. If you are more conservative with your bulbs it is a good option.

I wish more people knew about this combination, as it is a much better value than using 6 AA's. You get more runtime, more output, and a much simpler solution. 
Of course I can't guarantee that everyone will be able to run a 3854H with 2 26650s, but the amperage that my bulb draws seems to suggest that it is getting about 7.2 volts (from Luxluthor's charts), which is well below the point at which the bulb will blow. Again, my maglite is new, so it stands to reason that other new maglites will have similar resistance.


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## Billy Ram (Dec 12, 2009)

poormanq45 said:


> oh, I didnt take the higher charge voltage in to consideration.
> 
> What Mag85 uses a 2D host? Mine uses 3D with 9AA.
> 
> Given this information, is it possible to use a regulated driver? If so, what would you recommend?


 You can read about one of the drivers here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2953205&postcount=1
Billy


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## poormanq45 (Dec 12, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> I have been running 2 26650s on a 2D host for some time now, both with the 3853H and 3854H bulbs. The ones from batteryspace are a true 4000 Mah.
> 
> Lately I have been using the *3854H* bulb with* fully charged cells*, and it has *not blown on me* *yet*. The bulb is drawing 4.4 amps with fully charged cells, so it is not near the flashpoint of the bulb. The maglite probably has a fair amount of resistance, but it is by no means "stone age." In fact, it is no more than a few months old; I bought it brand new when I put the light together only a few months ago. I have only cut down the spring, but have done nothing else. I was going to do some resistance fixes and use the 3853H bulb, but the output would still be less than the 3854H bulb without the resistance fixes, and I would probably only gain about 20-25 minutes of runtime.
> 
> ...



Alright, so if you don't use IMR cells you should be ok?

Normal Li-Ion cells have a higher voltage drop under high current, correct?

I may try the 2D ROP then. Simply a UCL, Metal reflector, and 2 26650s is all that's needed! How much easier can it get!

May need a ceramic bulb holder in the future when the stock melts, but I'd deal with that later.

I like the idea of 1~2 hour runtimes!


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## Mjolnir (Dec 12, 2009)

poormanq45 said:


> Alright, so if you don't use IMR cells you should be ok?
> 
> Normal Li-Ion cells have a higher voltage drop under high current, correct?
> 
> ...



The Batteryspace 26650s are slightly different from the "IMR" AW cells. The AW cells are Lithium manganese, while the batteryspace cells are LiMnNi. You would only get over an hour of runtime with the 3853H bulb; the 3854 draws over 4 amps so you will get a maximum of under an hour of runtime (since the cells are 4000 Mah).
The batteryspace cells still have less voltage drop than "normal" LiCo cells, so they have no trouble with a 4 amp draw.

I would suggest getting both the 3854 and 4853 bulb sets. With the 3854H you should first charge the cells to around 4 volts and then measure the current at the tail. If it is around 4.0-4.2 amps, then you should be OK to try the fully charged cells. If you want to be very safe you could try the cells at .1 volt intervals and measure the current.


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## yellow (Dec 12, 2009)

to me here in Europe, batteyspace offers shipping of 75,-- (normal), or 2nd day (85,--), or - on special request - a "cheaper" UPS shipping adding up to 55-60,--.
If someone wants my opinion to these shippings and I would type them, that would be a week off ... 

Some shops only offer joky s/h cost, or a carrier that should be boycotted 
(UPS in that case. They also are so "nice" to calculate customs and VAT, even when the total should be under the amount needed. Has to be payed, too.)

PS: if someone has another source for 26650, 26650 protected normal high mAh Li-Ion preferred., pls type it


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## Mjolnir (Dec 12, 2009)

yellow said:


> to me here in Europe, batteyspace offers shipping of 75,-- (normal), or 2nd day (85,--), or - on special request - a "cheaper" UPS shipping adding up to 55-60,--.
> If someone wants my opinion to these shippings and I would type them, that would be a week off ...
> 
> Some shops only offer joky s/h cost, or a carrier that should be boycotted
> ...



I'm not sure if that was what you meant, but the batteryspace cells are not protected. However, they are a "safe" chemistry, so it isn't as necessary, and they will not explode or catch fire if they are abused or overcharged. If you look at the product sheet for the cells you can see all of the tests that the cells must pass, such as physical abuse, heating, overcharging, and others.


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## poormanq45 (Dec 12, 2009)

What would the approximate runtime of a Mag85 be with these cells?

IIRC a 9AA build gets you 45 minutes. That's typically with 2500mAh. Would the runtime increase be linear? If so, that would mean that you would achieve over one hour of runtime at over 1000 lumens OTF. 

That's pretty damn sexy...


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## Mjolnir (Dec 12, 2009)

I honestly don't know if these cells will work with an 1185 bulb, because I don't have one. These cells have the capability to hold about 4 volts under a 4 amp load when fully charged, so it would probably depend on the resistence of the maglite.

You might want to try 3 of these cells with the FM1909 bulb, which should theoretically give well over 2000 lumens (again, this depends on the maglite's resistance) with 35-40 minutes of runtime.

If an 1185 bulb drew about 3.5 amps from these cells, then yes they should get a little over an hour of runtime (theoretically), since the cells are 4 amp hours. 4 amp hours divided by 3.5 amps = 1.14 hours.


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## Billy Ram (Dec 12, 2009)

It's cold and wet here so I'm stuck inside burning wood and on the internet. With time on my hands this thread has got me figuring. 26650s are quite enexpensive for what you're getting and easily a $25 savings over going with AAs+holder. 3x26650s= 7.71" only about 1/2" longer than 3xD Alkalines. 2x26650s=5.14" and only 3/8" longer than 2xD Alkalines. So only a spring mod or using a "C" Mag spring and a piece of 1" schedule 40 PVC would be needed to run 26650s. If you use the Mag switch you may need to turn down the back side of the switch a bit for battery contact. 3x26650s would have over 1hr. run time behind the 1185 and arround 44mins. behind the FM1909. 3 26650s would fit nicely in a FM 4x26500 body and would be less than 1/4" shorter than 4x26500s. I would think the spring would make up this little bit of differance. I don't see any point in trying to run a 1185 off 26650s when we have the wonderfully bright FM1909. You could have plenty of run time using AW's driver and almost twice the brightness over the 1185 when needed. 
Billy


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## kramer5150 (Dec 12, 2009)

I didn't see it mentioned, but these cells do not readily drop into a current production C-mag. The diameter is too big.

FWIW... heres a little background info on the cells.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/234724


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## KiwiMark (Dec 12, 2009)

fivemega said:


> *If anybody using fully recharged 2x26650 with ROP 3854 and happy with the brightness, most probably flashlight is stone age with some rust or corrosion on internal parts such as tail cap spring+contact, switch contacts, switch tower sliding+spring contacts and..**.*



I use 2 x 32600 Li-ion cells which have 5000mAh - they don't have much voltage drop when fresh off the charger at 4.2V each. I am too scared to do any resistant fixes though - any lower resistance may let too many volts hit the bulb and . I don't see any rust or corrosion, but there could easily be a little oxidation in various places.


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## Mjolnir (Dec 12, 2009)

Even if you had to _add_ resistence to a stock maglite to get it to work with 2 26650 cells and a 3854H bulb, you would still be getting significantly more runtime than with 6 AA cells, and more brightness as well (depending on the resistance). On top of this, it would cost less.


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## poormanq45 (Dec 12, 2009)

This is where I wanted this thread to go.

Where can I get a FM1909 by itself?


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## RichS (Dec 12, 2009)

poormanq45 said:


> This is where I wanted this thread to go.
> 
> Where can I get a FM1909 by itself?


Unfortunately I don't think you can. I think most people that want the bulb only are buying a couple of FM1909s along with an order for one of FM's G4 brass bi-pin adapter ($16) even if you don't need it. Unfortunately I believe this is the only way. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179891

It's the cheapest way I know of to get one unless you get one of his hosts, which of course are very nice if you are in the market for one.

I just built a Mag 2D 3xIMR 'C' with an FM 1909, and I can tell you it is worth it. It easily bests my 3C Mag85, and I love the 2D form factor.


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## Billy Ram (Dec 12, 2009)

RichS said:


> Unfortunately I don't think you can. Most are buying a couple of FM1909s along with an order for one of FM's G4 brass bi-pin adapter ($16) even if you don't need it. Unfortunately I believe this is the only way. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179891
> 
> It's the cheapest way I know of to get one unless you get one of his hosts, which of course are very nice.
> 
> I just built a Mag 2D 3xIMR 'C' with an FM 1909, and I can tell you it is worth it. It easily bests my 3C Mag85, and I love the 2D form factor as well.


 Glad to hear you got your m*g09 put together and running. These things are bright!!! The hot spot from my FM09 is just as intense as my m*g458 with a fresh charge. Smaller and shorter makes a handy light. My FM09 will actually fit in my pocket! How many lights with 2400 bulb lumens will do that.
Billy


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## Linger (Dec 13, 2009)

Billy Ram said:


> My FM09 will actually fit in my pocket!


You've got some big pants.
And walking around like that has _got_ to lead to some raised eyebrows and old one-liners.


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## kramer5150 (Dec 13, 2009)

RichS said:


> Unfortunately I don't think you can. I think most people that want the bulb only are buying a couple of FM1909s along with an order for one of FM's G4 brass bi-pin adapter ($16) even if you don't need it. Unfortunately I believe this is the only way. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179891
> 
> It's the cheapest way I know of to get one unless you get one of his hosts, which of course are very nice if you are in the market for one.
> 
> I just built a Mag 2D 3xIMR 'C' with an FM 1909, and I can tell you it is worth it. It easily bests my 3C Mag85, and I love the 2D form factor.



Do you run that without a soft-start?
Do you guys think 3x26650 will flash the 1909 in a 3D host?


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## Billy Ram (Dec 13, 2009)

Linger said:


> You've got some big pants.
> And walking around like that has _got_ to lead to some raised eyebrows and old one-liners.








It sure fits better than a 2 or 3D Mag. Good enough to free your hands.


kramer5150 said:


> Do you run that without a soft-start?
> Do you guys think 3x26650 will flash the 1909 in a 3D host?


 I'm not running a soft start switch in mine.
Billy


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## Conte (Jan 14, 2010)

> WA1185 is even more sensitive and can't handle healthy 3x18650 in fair condition M*glite.


I do believe he was referring to IMR18650 cells.

If it pleases the thread, I just completed and experiment for an upcoming Mag85 build. I plan to run it in a 2D with 3x IMR26500 cells. 

*I have confirmed a Wa1185 bulb can be run off 3xIMR26500 while using a soft start. *

I did not set this up in a Mag Body. I set it up in such a way to eliminate any resistance factor. Wont' bother describing it. 

Now, I don't know what you'll get for bulb life, but it did not .
I was reading between 11 and 12 volts under load on the meter with fresh charged IMR cells.


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## fivemega (Jan 14, 2010)

Conte said:


> I do believe he was referring to IMR18650 cells.
> 
> If it pleases the thread, I just completed and experiment for an upcoming Mag85 build. I plan to run it in a 2D with 3x IMR26500 cells.
> 
> ...


*Predicted life shows 2.6 hours of bulb life where it flashed on 12.3 volts. Now you are saying it will work and last with 12 volts? Not to mention that Lux tested manualy with several seconds of soft start which is not available and practical for flashlight.
Please retest and make sure you are measuring voltage at bulb pins under load.
Lastly, there is huge difference between 11 volt to 12 volt for this particular bulb.*


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## ampdude (Jan 15, 2010)

The way I understand it, is that the 26500 cells don't fit well in most Maglite C cell tubes meant for 25mm C cell batteries.

That is the main reason I have never bought any. Because I don't want to go through a bunch of Maglites just to find one that will fit the batteries.

That and I don't really want to buy a hobby grade charger just for one light.


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## Conte (Jan 16, 2010)

fivemega said:


> *Predicted life shows 2.6 hours of bulb life where it flashed on 12.3 volts. Now you are saying it will work and last with 12 volts? Not to mention that Lux tested manualy with several seconds of soft start which is not available and practical for flashlight.
> Please retest and make sure you are measuring voltage at bulb pins under load.
> Lastly, there is huge difference between 11 volt to 12 volt for this particular bulb.*



I never said it would last ? I've studies Lux's Charts thoroughly. 



> Now, I don't know what you'll get for bulb life, but it did not .


I did the retest. Using your MN socket as a base to hold the bulb.
The batteries are at an average charge now. 11.4v Without load.
At the bulb pins I got 10.58 Volts. We just bought 10 hours. 

The between 11 to 12 volt reading I got was because it hit 12 right off the charger, then it dropped to after having done the test a few times so I generalized. Also I was using my trusty old analog meter in the 50v range, so it's hard to judge fractions of a volt. I used a digital meter this time. 

I was using the AW driver for my Megalennium. 
I'm going to give it a proper built run when I get my D Incan Driver back from AW. I'll let you know how it fairs.


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## Conte (Jan 27, 2010)

Reports of Initial 3xAwIMR26500 Mag85 Built.

2D mag. Tail cap mod using 14g solid copper wire from batt to cap.
AW Mag D Incan Driver. Voltage tested at pins on assembled Mag. 
Lumen estimate according to Lux's Charts. 

So far. Average fresh cell voltage will be just above 11.5 volts. ~1500 Lumens. 

After about 10 mins and consistent decline, it settles to about 10.6volts and holds. ~1200Lumen. 

10.5volts @ 16mins. Been running for 10 Straight. 

10.38v @20 mins. Shutting down. ~1000 Lumen.


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## Conte (Jan 27, 2010)

Hmmm, Hot Off the Charger @ 4.3v a cell = 
The cells were settle every other time I tested it. 

But at 4.3v a Cell, I'm thinking the cheapy charger I use is overcharging. 

3xIMR otherwise seems to work great if you settle/bleed your cell.


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## Billy Ram (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm using this




To balance charge my IMRs and it cuts off @ 4.19v. 
Every one ought to have one of these.




Or something holding 3x26650s and the FM1909. I ran this light for arround 30 mins. last night expecting it to go dim and it didn't. It had allready been ran for about 10 mins. on another night. Twice as bright as my m*g85 with more run time is awesome.
Billy


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## Linger (Jan 28, 2010)

That's a nice set-up, hobby charger giving precise terminations to keep the cells below max + below the bulbs range.
I cringed when I first saw, lest others miss some of the finer details and use that example for a lesser set-up. I will take a moment to point something out for others:
Those are 'safe' cells, and a 'safe' charger, with quality cell cradles, three parts to a safe and secure charging protocol.
IMR cells are called 'inherently safe' because unlike other lithium cells, IMR cells contain no oxygen and cannot 'vent with flames,' even so you'll note lose leaf paper was decided against even with these 'safe' cells.
That's an advanced set-up and would be unsafe with standard dx/kd type equipment. Pay your respects to the possible danger in charging lithium cells. Remember that the majority of incidents involving rechargable cells occure during charging.


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## kramer5150 (Jan 28, 2010)

* **EDIT** I just got an email from bigchelis and the numbers I originally presented below were wrong. We made a mathematical error in our conversion from foot-candles to Lumens. I have now updated the measurements per his post #43 below*

I haven't followed this thread much, but I think some of you might find this relevant. Bigchelis measured my MAG1185 this weekend in his calibrated sphere and these are the numbers we got, using different cell types

Setup 1:
-3D
-16 AWG wire bridged across OEM tailcap spring
-Stock switch modded with copper wire bypassing the flood/throw spring mechanism.
-Stock bezel (thats the only type that fits in his sphere)
-Glass lens, KD OP reflector.

3D Mag WA 1185 9x Eneloop pack	716.2 => 1 sec
3D Mag WA 1185 9x Eneloop pack	643.8 => 30 sec
3D Mag WA 1185 9x Eneloop pack	619.2 => 1 min
3D Mag WA 1185 9x Eneloop pack	607.7 => 2 min
3D Mag WA 1185 9x Eneloop pack	606.2 => 3 min
3D Mag WA 1185 9x Eneloop pack	606.9 => 4 min

setup 2
-2D
-5Mega stainless bi-pin adapter
-Stock switch & bezel
-Glass lens, KD OP reflector
2D Mag WA 1185 3 IMR 26500	1080.0 => 1 sec
2D Mag WA 1185 3 IMR 26500	1007.7 => 30 sec
2D Mag WA 1185 3 IMR 26500 973.1 => 1 min
2D Mag WA 1185 3 IMR 26500 953.1 => 2 min
2D Mag WA 1185 3 IMR 26500 922.3 => 3 min
2D Mag WA 1185 3 IMR 26500 901.5 => 4 min

The 26500 cells had been used previously, testing an ROP Low and an FM1909 setup. So ~6 minutes total run time had been done on the cells prior to us testing the above 1185 setup. We didn't do a test run hot off the charger (Jose please correct me if I am wrong).

What surprised me the most was the stability of the eneloop cells. In a DD / incan setup I was expecting a steeper drop off, but output was relatively flat from 1- 4 minutes.


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## bigchelis (Jan 28, 2010)

Thanks Kramer5150,

When I publish my data the OTF numbers for those big light will be a bit lower, but its about right.

I have to test more lights with MrGman to fully synchronize it, but close enough for now.

Thanks,
bigC


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## Conte (Jan 28, 2010)

> The 26500 cells had been used previously, testing an ROP Low and an FM1909 setup. So ~6 minutes total run time had been done on the cells prior to us testing the above 1185 setup. We didn't do a test run hot off the charger (Jose please correct me if I am wrong).
> 
> What surprised me the most was the stability of the eneloop cells. In a DD / incan setup I was expecting a steeper drop off, but output was relatively flat from 1- 4 minutes.



Yeah, the Mag85 defiantly kicks hard with the IMR's, but I noticed the decline to in my tests tracking it for 20 mins. They flattened out alot once they hit their 3x3.6v rated working range, loosing only about .2 volts in 10 minutes of straight runtime. Chances are the Enloops hit their rated working voltage right away under load. 

Like you, with my first 3 test runs the cells had been lightly used. Bang on 12 volts what the highest peak I metered.

But then, hot off the charger, using a cheap charger, that pushes the cell voltage to 4.3v if left brewing till the light turns solid green, 

I have a better hobby charger like Billy Rams. I want to try the test again, Hot off THAT charger. But I'm reluctant cause I only have one 1185 left.

I live in Canada, and Litho's on hiatus, and I don't think Fivemega will sell me just Bulbs. So if I blow this one, it's going to be very hard for me to get more for a reasonable price, unless I buy more cool stuff from Fivemega again. Any donations ? Suggestions ?

Neat Rig Billy. Have you seen my Balance Charger Thread ?
I ought to pick one of those FM1909's one day.


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## Mjolnir (Jan 28, 2010)

Bigchelis, did you get any numbers for a 3854H bulb with any IMR cells (either the AW cells or the 26650s)? I'm really interested in finding out what the ROP bulb is really capable of.


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## bigchelis (Jan 28, 2010)

Mjolnir said:


> Bigchelis, did you get any numbers for a 3854H bulb with any IMR cells (either the AW cells or the 26650s)? I'm really interested in finding out what the ROP bulb is really capable of.


 


I sure did. And for the record these are the permanent and official OTF lumens with the correction factors that the meter needed.

710.0 1 sec
658.5 30 sec
617.7 1 min
563.8 2 min
538.5 3 min

As soon as I figure out how to import my spreadsheet I will update with all the incan Mag builds and others with all my OTF readings.


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## Linger (Jan 28, 2010)

Conte - Litho's in the bulbs fo sho! instructions in his marketplace thread. I just recieved my latest order from him two days ago.
I can't donate, but I *might* be able to ship you a few if you'll do an 1185, 1166 (or 1160, the higher voltage one), and the JC5607 (its hot!)

will edit post at home,


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## bigchelis (Jan 29, 2010)

I just correct the 1185 w/ 3 IMR 26500 cells: These are the OTF readings and it didn't go Well, we tested the FM1909 to drain the cells a bit before we tried those exact cells on this WA1185. I may try them topped off, but I have to gather the courage first.

*1080.0 1 sec*
*1007.7 30 sec*
*973.1 1 min*
*953.1 2 min*
*922.3 3 min*
*901.5 4 min*

*And the correction for the WA1185 w/9 enelops:*
*716.2 1 sec*
*643.8 30 sec*
*619.2 1 min*
*607.7 2 min*
*606.2 3 min*
*606.9 4 min*


*Here is the FM 1909 OTF readings at 30 seconds. I did not do 1sec~29sec; my meter couldn't read it untill the 30 second mark. The hosts was a 2D w/ 3 IMR 26500 cells. No resistance mods or soft-start. I used the same hosts and cells for the WA1185.*

*1538.5 30 sec*
*1440.0 1 min*
*1386.2 2 min*
*1353.8 3 min*


*The other previously tested WA1185 by MrGman at the San Jose, CA BBQ was a Mag build with 3 AW black C cells: *It did a little less OTF then with mine and 3 IMR C cells, but at least these cells don't require a bit of use before using them. 

*Welsh Allen-1185____Maglight__________3 AW C LI ION_____1042,_**__1 sec*


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## Conte (Jan 29, 2010)

bigchelis, If you have a chance, I'd love to know what a 64633 is pushing running of 4xIMR's. 

I just build a 4xIMR 64633 in a 3D. It kicks like Mule. But according to my load readings, its getting 15.5v max, so its pretty much running spec, no OD.


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## kramer5150 (Jan 29, 2010)

OK thanks... I got your updated spreadsheet

What still amazes me is how well regulated the 9xeneloop setup is. Dropping only 13 Lumens from 1-4 minutes. Not even the best "regulated" LEDs can match this.

I think it needs to be re-iterated that the 3x26500 cells were NOT fresh off the charger when we did the 1185 run.


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## bigchelis (Jan 29, 2010)

Conte said:


> bigchelis, If you have a chance, I'd love to know what a 64633 is pushing running of 4xIMR's.
> 
> I just build a 4xIMR 64633 in a 3D. It kicks like Mule. But according to my load readings, its getting 15.5v max, so its pretty much running spec, no OD.


 
I don't have any 64633 lamps, but I know Kramer5150 can donate his 3D Mag for the project. 

Also, my 2D Mag that I been using my FM1909 has now a broken switch. I don't know if it was the high current or what, but the spring in the tower doesn't work anymore. It might have been some melted plastic parts


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## Mjolnir (Jan 30, 2010)

Bigchelis, do you know how many amps the 3854 was drawing when it gave those readings?


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## Xtremespeed (Feb 5, 2010)

Nevermind


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## bigchelis (Feb 5, 2010)

Mjolnir said:


> Bigchelis, do you know how many amps the 3854 was drawing when it gave those readings?


 

Kramer5150,

Do you recall what the 3854 H had at the tail?


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## LumenHound (Feb 5, 2010)

I prefer to use a Mag 2C for my ROP lights. Bright but not too large.
I can get by with the smaller 25500 Li-ion cells that are on the market presently for ordinary casual use.


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## bigchelis (Feb 5, 2010)

If you want to know the ROP and other OTF readings check out post #2 here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3268385#post3268385


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