# Why a flashlight need SOS mode?



## daniel0315 (Jun 18, 2015)

Let’s have a discuss why a flashlight need SOS mode.
Some one believe in it is annoying.
_its an annoying add on, what are the chances youll need it.. and what are the chances some one who sees it will know what it is_? (from other forum)
Other think it is useful. It will help us when I we lost or meet some other problem.
What do you think so?
Do you consider this problem when you choose the flashlight?
Best regards,


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## novice (Jun 18, 2015)

I have rarely used one, but I am neutral as to whether they should be on a flashlight or not. It's not a deal-breaker for me.

I see two uses:

1) Attracting the attention of first responders that have been summoned, when there is lots of light pollution around.

2) Trying to find someone in a huge crowd at night is made easier when you have told them on the cellphone that you have a strobe mode going.

Please always keep in mind that certain individuals with Epilepsy can have seizures induced by strobes, so reason #2 above is morally problematic.


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## Str8stroke (Jun 18, 2015)

Halloween decorations
Party Festivities 

Most importantly:

*​ZOMBIES!*


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## Berneck1 (Jun 18, 2015)

I don't mind it as long as it is buried and I can't accidentally activate it. You never know if you will need it. Chances are you will never once use it. However, I think you will be glad you had it if you needed it. Whether people know what it is or not, it will attract the attention of searchers.


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## TEEJ (Jun 18, 2015)

Its an odd question as to what the use of an SOS signal is for...its self explanatory. 

Its for signaling that you need help....its the international signal of distress.

Will you need it?

If you needed to signal that you needed help, sure...but, hopefully, you won't. Some people carry emergency supplies such as paracord, fire starters, signal mirrors, etc...and never need it. WHY do they carry them? Well, IN CASE they need them. Its like a life insurance policy...you HOPE you didn't need it.


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## Eagles1181 (Jun 18, 2015)

I like the idea of having a strobe. I think the idea of SOS is gemiki. All the benefits that "SOS" offers can be accomplished by any other strobe. Only place I can see a difference is if you were trying to signal somebody who did not already no you were in trouble. But then the likelihood that they would recognize SOS is unlikely. Personally I wish there was a way to deactivate the blinky on my PD35.

Eagle


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## TEEJ (Jun 18, 2015)

Eagles1181 said:


> I like the idea of having a strobe. I think the idea of SOS is gemiki. All the benefits that "SOS" offers can be accomplished by any other strobe. Only place I can see a difference is if you were trying to signal somebody who did not already no you were in trouble. But then the likelihood that they would recognize SOS is unlikely. Personally I wish there was a way to deactivate the blinky on my PD35.
> 
> Eagle



A search team would recognize SOS, as its an international signal.

I'd bet that if had a flashlight, period, and shined it at a helicoptor searching for you, they'd see your light and investigate.

If I was not probably being searched FOR though...a passing aircraft, etc....would see a light, and, to them, it would just be a camper, etc. If strobing, still, it doesn't mean anyone is in trouble.

SOS though MEANS you need help, and, a passing craft would KNOW you needed help.


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 18, 2015)

I'd you got stranded on a desert Island, you could leave it signalling away automatically. Better than spelling out SOS with coconuts on the beach. Bet Tom Hanks would have found it handy in castaway

Edit: come to think about it, any one for a run time test on SOS mode?


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## 5S8Zh5 (Jun 18, 2015)

Watch the movie Panic Room. .....


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## RWT1405 (Jun 18, 2015)

Strobe, yes. SOSOSOSOSOSOSOSOSOSOSOS, no. Most I've seen do not do SOS, they do the SOSOSOSOSOSOS, which is meaningless.


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## Berneck1 (Jun 18, 2015)

I believe SOS mode would last longer over strobe or high. 


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 18, 2015)

RWT1405 said:


> Strobe, yes. SOSOSOSOSOSOSOSOSOSOSOS, no. Most I've seen do not do SOS, they do the SOSOSOSOSOSOS, which is meaningless.



Yes because the search crews would have no idea what OSO means. Seriously though, there was one light that I had that was SOSSOS. The time for the six dits I think could be a bit too long although still pretty hard to mistake it for anything else


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 18, 2015)

Berneck1 said:


> I believe SOS mode would last longer over strobe or high.



Well I tried to get some tail cap draw readings on a L2D just out of curiosity and it is pretty damn hard to do. Looks like it needs to be graphed with a fine resolution.


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## markr6 (Jun 18, 2015)

All the SOS modes I've seen are SOOOOOO slow, almost to the point where I feel a person in a plane flying over could mistaken it for some weather anomaly, reflection or just their eyes playing tricks on them.


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## subwoofer (Jun 18, 2015)

IMO flashlights don't need SOS. Unfortunately we are stuck with this being included again and again as light manufacturers seem to think that not having it will mean people won't buy their light.

Even strobe has limited purpose, unless you are a LEO or in the military. Again and again they are added.

Cheap lights are the worst as at least on the better quality lights these modes are usually better hidden so you only get them when you really want them.

The ONLY flashing mode I like is a beacon. I've set this up in a tent to guide me back to it and in a vehicle I've parked off-road again to guide me back.

Using SOS for anything other than attracting rescue in dire circumstances is very bad, and using it to attract a friend in a crowd is not acceptable. Using the light on normal steady output and waving it around will be just as good as using SOS, probably better.


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## thedoc007 (Jun 18, 2015)

markr6 said:


> All the SOS modes I've seen are SOOOOOO slow, almost to the point where I feel a person in a plane flying over could mistaken it for some weather anomaly, reflection or just their eyes playing tricks on them.



Eagletac has multiple speeds on the same flashlights, in many cases. Slow SOS, and fast. The fast one probably takes under two seconds for the entire sequence.

I do want strobe, but I could take or leave SOS - don't really care. It is very unlikely to be needed (and even if it was needed, there are other options), and not everyone would know what it meant anyway. Strobe is much better at grabbing attention than anything else, in my opinion, and is genuinely useful. Yet another thread about it was started not too long ago, and there are all kinds of examples where strobe came in handy. I have yet to hear ANYONE say SOS was actually useful in a real-world situation.


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## markr6 (Jun 18, 2015)

thedoc007 said:


> Eagletac has multiple speeds on the same flashlights, in many cases. Slow SOS, and fast. The fast one probably takes under two seconds for the entire sequence.



I like that. <2 sec is what it should be IMO. Luckily all these modes are well hidden on my lights.


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 18, 2015)

subwoofer said:


> Using the light on normal steady output and waving it around will be just as good as using SOS, probably better.



Yes but your arms will get tired and you need to sleep. Which is why I'm now curious as to how long SOS mode runs for. How long do people get lost for these days?


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## RWT1405 (Jun 18, 2015)

Mr Floppy, I'm sure you've done far more searches then I have, so please tell me your experiences where an SOS feature has ever been useful? Also, the SOS features that I've seen (and I'm sure there are many that are different then what I've seen) flash their SOS far to slow, for anyone to have any idea what it is. I'll give you my experiences, as a 36 year Paramedic/Firefighter, the last 30 years fulltime and in my time as a Flight Paramedic (so yes, I've done a search or two, in my time). Never once, nor can I imagine anytime, that SOS would be useful. Strobe yes, SOS no.


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## Lou Minescence (Jun 18, 2015)

If I had a boat I would want a flashlight with SOS for a mode.

Anyone ever actually used SOS before ? ( for emergency )


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## Timothybil (Jun 18, 2015)

Someone on another thread mentioned that they had left their flashlight flashing SOS during a blackout in a major city for several hours, and no one noticed. I would guess that outside of the LEO, Military, Fire/EMS/Scout community there are very few people today who could even tell you the Morse code for SOS, let alone quickly recognize it.

I believe that someone's marketing department was brainstorming on features for a new light. Someone probably said it should have a momentary button so the user could use it to send code like SOS. Someone else said let's make it easy and program an SOS mode so they just have to turn it on. They all thought that was a great idea so it became a feature. Once their light hit the market everyone else rushed to do the same so that hey could claim that feature too.

How many of you remember the design wars with American cars in the late 50s and 60s. Someone put a little fin on the tail of one model the first year. The second year everyone had a little bit larger fin on all their models. Then they started moving the tail lights up into the fin to make theirs different. It took almost 10 years for the fins to disappear again. It wasn't a matter of the drivers wanting the fins, it was just if you wanted the other features of the car you had to take the fins as well. Once the designers figured out that no one really liked the fins and could care less if they were there are not, they disappeared, never to be seen again.


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## Woods Walker (Jun 18, 2015)

I think the primary purpose would be to increase the number of modes for marketing.


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## subwoofer (Jun 19, 2015)

Mr Floppy said:


> Yes but your arms will get tired and you need to sleep. Which is why I'm now curious as to how long SOS mode runs for. How long do people get lost for these days?



The context of my post that you quoted was talking about signalling a friend in a crowd of people (as SOS should not be used). I doubt you will need to sleep while meeting friends.


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 19, 2015)

RWT1405 said:


> Mr Floppy, I'm sure you've done far more searches then I have, so please tell me your experiences where an SOS feature has ever been useful?



Actually, I haven't done any searches. I used partake in activities where I may be the one to be rescued but luckily I have never been in strife. The terrain I used to bushwalk in is actually quite forested and cliffs can come from anywhere. Before anyone goes into the terrain, the rangers give safety tips including signalling for help, and guess what one of the signals is?


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 19, 2015)

subwoofer said:


> The context of my post that you quoted was talking about signalling a friend in a crowd of people (as SOS should not be used). I doubt you will need to sleep while meeting friends.



So I did. Sorry. There used to be regulations in this country that forbids someone from using known distress signals when they are not in distress. That or that's what they told the kids to stop them writing SOS on the beaches in the sand.


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## RWT1405 (Jun 19, 2015)

My guess, Mr Floppy, as I wasn't there, is they meant someone clicking, by hand, SOS. Not using the oh so slow method that I've seen on most lights, as markr6 has stated earlier. But, if you want that SOS, so be it. Enjoy!


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 19, 2015)

RWT1405 said:


> My guess, Mr Floppy, as I wasn't there, is they meant someone clicking, by hand, SOS. Not using the oh so slow method that I've seen on most lights, as markr6 has stated earlier. But, if you want that SOS, so be it. Enjoy!



I don't recall whether they suggested a speed for the dits and dahs. 

It was actually suggested that you signal by shielding the light with something for those people carrying mini maglites as twisting and signalling is not as easy to maintain direction. Also better for lights with electronic switches and those lights that use double clicks to change mode.


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## RWT1405 (Jun 19, 2015)

Using your hand, to shield, makes sense. Enjoy!


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## Ugly Dude (Jun 20, 2015)

Let me try to think out loud in terms of pros and cons, based largely on comments above. 

The pros are that there's a small chance someone could be in a situation where SOS could be useful (arguably not, if beacon suffices). There's a small chance that someone would actually respond to that SOS signal (perhaps due to not understanding it or slow frequency). 

So, (small) x (small) = really small chance!  

Con is that SOS mode may be inconvenient? I can't imagine that it costs much to program in. 

I guess it doesn't bother me too much, but not really a selling point. 

As an aside, my autocorrect doesn't recognize "SOS"!


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## TEEJ (Jun 20, 2015)

When they sell lights as "TACTICAL", it means they add a lot of modes and UI features no one who buys them, EXCEPT REAL TACTICAL users, find useful....and even then, they may not.


Tacti-Cool marketing is the primary driver if you will, of these drivers' UI.


For example, LEO use often means come on at max or strobe, depending on THAT LEO's scenario.

For a non-LEO for example, or an LEO who simply uses the light like a "normal person", coming on in high or strobe would not be as useful as coming on at a lower setting...possibly even a moonlight setting, etc.


So, people buy a light that SAYS "TACTICAL", and then ***** BECAUSE ITS TACTICAL....and they don't like the tactical features.



As for SOS mode, yeah, its like carrying a signal mirror you don't have to manually manipulate...and, yeah, SOME lights, did have it backwards...but the newer ones have corrected that typically.

The ONLY time the SOS vs beacon, etc, MIGHT be worth having is if you:

1) Are not able to manually signal due to time or positional restrictions, such as the way the trees are, needing to sleep, having your hands smashed in the crash, etc.

2) You need to INCREASE the odds that some random person who sees your light interprets it AS an SOS (Call for help), and sends help...because otherwise, they might interpret it as just some random light being used below, etc.


If you are KNOWN TO BE LOST, and people are searching for you - ANYthing you can do to help make sure they look where you are is going to probably work.

IE: Your boat capsized in the open ocean, and you are in a life raft....its night, and you radio'd in an SOS before you sank....so the coast guard, nearby craft, etc....are LOOKING FOR YOU....ANY light will work, and they are very very unlikely to be looking for a guy in a life boat to save him, and see you bobbing in the ocean in the dark except for your OSOSOSO signal, and NOT at least stop by to see who the lost dyslexic was, etc. A beacon, glowing bacon, a strobe, whatever, it won't matter...if it increases the odds of distinguishing you from the background.

VS

You capsize as above, but you didn't TELL ANYONE...

so, NO ONE KNOWS SOMEONE OUT THERE MIGHT NEED HELP.

So, you're out with friends, and, maybe a few miles away, you see a light. You assume its someone else out fishing, etc,,,and ignore it. A strobe, a beacon, etc, they DON'T mean "SAVE ME!!!!!!"

SOS means "SAVE ME!!!!" to anyone with a basic understanding of morse code (But, that's about it).


So, again for people who might randomly see you, the SOS has a chance of saying that you need help, so go provide help...as oppposed to "what's that light over there?" "IDK, some guy with a flashlight goofing off?" "OK, hand me another beer..."

They say "what's that light over there?" "IDK, looks like an SOS signal though, maybe someone's in trouble" "OK, lets go over there and check it out"


Can you manually signal SOS? Of course you can...depending on your level of injury, and if you're too busy bailing water out of your life boat/trying to gather wood to build a fire in the woods, etc.

Firing three shots from a gun/flare gun, and other traditional means of saying "HEP ME HEP ME!!!!" are common as well.


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## eh4 (Jun 21, 2015)

+1 what TEEJ said. 

Say someone is slipping into a diabetic coma, or you have a hurt partner whom you've bundled up, and you've decided to go look for help instead of wait. 
Etc, etc. The brightness, duration, and reasonable quality of the SOS code would be significant, along with having the feature well out of the way when not needed. 

Strobes that only run twice as long as a light's high setting won't help much if the idea is to keep signaling for as long as an unconscious person might be alive. 
A good SOS move should be bright and outlast the beneficiary.


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## Lou Minescence (Jun 21, 2015)

I searched ' SOS flashlight rescue ' here on CPF and found some stories of actual rescues. one story from 2006 still has a working link : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/6070444.stm
Tell that guy he doesn't need SOS. I guess he flashed it out manually. There was another story but the link is dead.


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## thedoc007 (Jun 21, 2015)

Lou Minescence said:


> I searched ' SOS flashlight rescue ' here on CPF and found some stories of actual rescues. one story from 2006 still has a working link : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/6070444.stm
> Tell that guy he doesn't need SOS. I guess he flashed it out manually. There was another story but the link is dead.



No one has argued that we should abandon SOS as an emergency signal...just that SOS modes on a typical flashlight offer VERY limited utility. After all, in the rescue story, he managed to get his point across without a dedicated SOS mode.

Personally, I don't think the linked article supports the inclusion of SOS on consumer flashlights...especially since most of them do not adhere to established guidelines:



yaesumofo said:


> Here is the offical requirement for SOS from the 46 CFR 161.013.
> So if you want it to be certified then ...
> 
> PART 161--ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT--Table of Contents
> ...



So it is clear to me that super-fast SOS modes (like on some Eagletacs, as mentioned earlier) are not necessarily a better idea than the "slow" sequences on other lights.


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## insanefred (Jun 22, 2015)

TEEJ said:


> A search team would recognize SOS, as its an international signal.
> 
> I'd bet that if had a flashlight, period, and shined it at a helicoptor searching for you, they'd see your light and investigate.
> 
> ...




Which search teams? Very few are actually taught Morse code. Just shining your light is good enough, the SOS function is a gimmick.


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 24, 2015)

insanefred said:


> Which search teams? Very few are actually taught Morse code.



I don't know Morse code. I know the Morse code for SOS. You don't need to know the entire code. It's not like you need to signal your life story to your would be rescuer. 

Primary school kids know the code for SOS even if they aren't part of any scouting organisation. Some forget when they reach adulthood but a trained rescue team would at least recognise the signals.


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## markr6 (Jun 24, 2015)

When it involves someone's life, search teams are looking for a needle in a haystack. Any kind of sign at all. I'm sure they won't say "hey, there's a light down there but it's saying S-O-B...let's keep searching"


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## RGRAY (Jul 9, 2015)

Interesting subject.
I think anyone who has been a boy/girl scout would know.
Anyone who watches military movies or shows would know.
Anyone was seen at sea distress movies would know.
So. a lot of people would know.
Even if you didn't know, the weird pattern would attract your attention.
Like has been said already I think the battery would last longer in SOS then strobe or high.

Now I have a question, are there any flashlights under 3 inches that has a SOS setting?


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jul 9, 2015)

I'm not a fan of blinkies on my lights, and try my best to avoid them. And the #1 useless blinky mode is the SOS. Totally unnecessary, because any flashing mode would alert S&R if you were lost. And using it in any other circumstance, might be criminal mischief.

The #2 useless mode is the strobe, because if I'm getting mugged the only thing it will do is get my *** kicked twice as hard.

#3 useless mode is the beacon. It's only tolerable because I can skip over it in a mode sequence, and only see it flash once. But I suppose if I had to signal for help, I'd use the beacon mode because it has a long run time.

#4 is a slow flash (about 2-4 Hz). I could maybe actually use this one as a bicycle light during the daytime (for extra visibility). Pity that this is the one blinky mode that many lights do not include.

But if I have a choice (and I do), I try to get lights that don't have blinkies at all, or at least hide them.


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## markr6 (Jul 9, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The #2 useless mode is the strobe, because if I'm getting mugged the only thing it will do is get my *** kicked twice as hard.



I love that!! Besides, if you have time to get out a light and set it to strobe before someone mugs you (who is probably coming up from behind you anyway), congratulations because you're faster than lightning or have eyes in the back of your head.


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## eh4 (Jul 10, 2015)

HDS has great options for strobe. 
ZL Mk2 and so on into the future presumably, has a very reasonable strobe (or beacon, or other blinky, take your pick) access. 
Click, click, click, from off, that's not too bad.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jul 10, 2015)

eh4 said:


> ZL Mk2 and so on into the future presumably, has a very reasonable strobe (or beacon, or other blinky, take your pick) access.
> Click, click, click, from off, that's not too bad.



Yes, the triple-click for blinkies on the Zebralight isn't too bad. You don't have to stumble through it to go through the real modes. Though I prefer the UI on my old ZL's, which is triple-click for low, and the blinky you have to program as a sub-mode, so there's ZERO chance of an accidental activation of the blinky.


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## TEEJ (Jul 10, 2015)

Again, this is a thread where the subject is a feature that most will never need, and all hope to never need.

This is somewhat akin to carrying a light in the first place for most people (Not us of course...).

IE: The average person doesn't carry even ONE flashlight with them. The average person doesn't even think they might want to. They figure the odds against needing one in their daily life is not high enough to worry about it. They, at most, figure the buildings have emergency lighting, the rescuers have lighting, its daylight typically when the are out and about anyway, and so forth.

So, SOS is a SPECIFIC feature.

It has one primary purpose, and that's to send the International Signal for Distress.


So, as someone who LOOKS for people who might be in distress, I can tell you about EVERYONE in a trained search team knows what SOS is. ... --- ...

THREE of something, repeated, means someone needs help essentially. Three gun shots, etc.


So, IF YOU ARE REPORTED MISSING, and, PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR YOU ON PURPOSE....it is 100% DIFFERENT from if you are the only one who KNOWS YOU ARE IN TROUBLE.


If you're hiking the Appalachian Trail, and get bit by a a timber rattler...and are too far in to get to a hospital on your own, etc....you can probably flash your light forever, even SOS, and no one will see it....and, if they DO see it, they are unlikely to tell anyone UNLESS they recognize that it MEANS you need help.

If its a strobe, or randomly flashing...its just a light. No one is motivated to report it unless its somewhere no one is allowed to be in, etc.


If its SOS, that MEANS you are in trouble....if they recognize it. MOST kids are taught SOS in school, as meaning a person needs help. Flashing SOS, manually, or, automatically, increases the ODDS that some random observer will see it and RECOGNIZE it as at least potentially a person in trouble.



On the OTHER hand, if you are in a crash, your boat capsizes, you had to run for it due to a forest fire, and you got off a distress call, or the event has triggered an emergency response, you are REPORTED MISSING/PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR YOU or other potential victims ALREADY, etc...


...THEN it won't matter WHAT you do to draw attention...ANY signs of life will draw a response. 


So, in a scenario where you are not being looked for, and need a distant random passer-by to understand you need help, SOS has a better chance of working than random flashes....as SOS MEANS "help!" whereas random flashes may be ignored/not interpreted as someone in trouble.

In a scenario where a search team/party is actively trying to find people in trouble, including YOU, a signal mirror, any flashlight, a fire, etc...ANYTHING that draws their eyes or ears to your location...will work.



If it IS a light with SOS, I DO feel it should send ... --- ... because that's less ambiguous....but, if its groups of THREE flashes, that's typically close enough to be PERCEIVED as SOS...as three camp fires in a row, three slow gun shots, etc, all mean the same thing.




So, again, most of us will never need SOS, and, none of us WANT TO ever need SOS, as that means something bad happened.

MOST PEOPLE IN GENERAL will never need a flashlight in their pocket, and, none WANT TO need a flashlight in their pocket, as that would mean something bad happened.


You can then further narrow that down to the people with a flashlight in their pocket who don't think they should have SOS on it. Statistically, they don't NEED a flashlight, and, statistically, they don't need that flashlight to have SOS on it....but there is a use for a flashlight in your pocket, and for SOS, but, that doesn't mean YOU will find it worth it to carry a flashlight in your pocket, OR a flashlight with SOS.

Statistically, you don't even need a flashlight.




So, you might not want SOS, but, its a feature that could be life saving under very bad circumstances....and, essentially, ONLY under those circumstances.


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## RWT1405 (Jul 10, 2015)

I also have LOOKED for many people, since 1979. I don't find myself in searches, as much, these days, but still do from time to time. 

So tell me TEEJ, how many folks have you found, that have used a flashlight in SOS mode? I can tell you the number I've found, ZERO.

And if I found myself in need of using my flashlight, in such a circumstance, I would use a strobe feature over any SOS I have ever seen, on a flashlight.

But I guess that is just me. YMMV


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jul 10, 2015)

I don't know where you hike at night, but where I've hiked, there's absolutely nobody on the trails at night. Zero.

You can signal SOS all you want, but unless a coyote notices it and howls for help, it's not going to do you any good.

If S&R is looking for you, that's another matter. But as you say, any signal will work then.

I'm not against including it on lights (I have a few that have it), but I want it buried. Part of the main sequence (such as on my Quarks) is _really_ annoying.


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## TEEJ (Jul 10, 2015)

Exactly....which is why I said you can flash all you want, and, in some areas, there's simply no one to see it, regardless of what you flash. (Hence flares, gun shots, etc, working better in some terrain, etc...)



If there's a search party, we don't NEED there to be SOS, as I explained, we are looking for ANY sign of presence, and anything that catches our attention will work.

*The ONLY time, as explained, that SOS CAN help, is when NO ONE IS LOOKING FOR YOU.


*
_*THAT*_ is why you need what you're doing to COMMUNICATE THAT YOU NEED HELP....when they _DON'T_ know.




And, yes, you will probably never need it....statistically.


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## RWT1405 (Jul 10, 2015)

Curious as to what your background "looking for people" is TEEJ. Mine is listed in my profile.

Other then what is listed, I was born and raised in rural PA, growing up in the woods (since before I can remember) and hunting since I was 12. I joined my local vol EMS @ 15 (1979) and Fire @ 16, been a Full time/career Responder since I was 20 (1985), as my profile shows.


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## Mr Floppy (Jul 10, 2015)

RWT1405 said:


> Curious as to what your background "looking for people" is TEEJ. Mine is listed in my profile.



Mate, you should get to know the man. 

Just on the earlier post about how many people has he found using sos, why the nuggets does it matter? It is the international sign, that even non English speakers understand. 

The less understood signal is the three of something. That is the other one taught to bush walkers around here. Make a smoke signal with three puffs.


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## RWT1405 (Jul 10, 2015)

Really? Was a simple question, and how else would I "get to know the man", then then to ask questions?


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## Mr Floppy (Jul 10, 2015)

RWT1405 said:


> Really? Was a simple question, and how else would I "get to know the man", then then to ask questions?



And if the answer was 10.. And if the answer was 0? 

Teej humbly doesn't promote himself (or perhaps for work anonymity reasons). Over the years over a couple of fora, you get a bit of insight into his work.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jul 10, 2015)

Hmmm... "looks for people in distress". Maybe he's an axe murderer or something? Does he wear a hockey mask?


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## TEEJ (Jul 10, 2015)

LOL

I try to avoid online pissing contests. They are merely arguments from authority...and not typically relevant.


The point is the same. If people are looking for you, you don't need SOS...just to get their attention.

Its when there is NO search party, because no one knows you need help, that you then need to convey that you need help.


I could also point out that neither of us have a way to know how many in trouble died, because they did not have a way to convey that they needed help, and their signals were not recognized/not sent.

I will say that the people who are found flashing SOS didn't need to be, because we were looking for people. The last two flashing SOS, manually, were impacted by Sandy for example. The vast majority of those I have historically been looking for are either in trouble, especially lately, due to flooding, or, they are simply elderly/not all together, and wander off and are reported missing. None have flashlights or whistles, etc, typically unless they were out camping, etc, when the trouble occurred.

I have never seen anyone with a flashlight that automatically flashes SOS, used to do so, in these circumstances, nor have I seen anyone use a signal mirror, at least properly...albeit I know others who have, and I know of people who SAY they tried to flash their mirrors at aircraft but were not observed/reported. 


You and I can only know about those that ARE found. Those never reported as missing are missing from the data.




Its akin to paracord bracelets. How many who wear them will use them to save their lives?

Statistically, none.

How many wear them so that if they need cord to save their life, they have some? A lot. Should there be paracord bracelets and SOS on flashlights? Its about the same gravitas.




My solution is to not buy lights with blinky modes, if I don't want to have a light with blinky modes. I do not personally look for lights with SOS for example, as its a very low priority, and if it has SOS, or other blinky modes, I would require it to be a hidden mode I don't need to scroll through.

A strobe, for tactical use, is useful, for tactical use. I'm in investigation, and don't really need it. On at MAX though, that's very useful still, so, many of my lights DO have that.

For the majority of EDC use, for me, coming on in moonlight or low is more convenient, and, I also have lights that come on dim, and get ramped up as needed....as each UI choice has a role.

For some searches, night vision and FLIR work better than flashlights...but its expensive to equip a large party that way, and the training required to use them effectively is a limiting factor in deployment.

And so forth.

There are a lot of tool choices. The more in your tool box, the more options you have and the more flexible you can be.

If someone says they don't want a brake flaring tool in THEIR tool box, because they don't expect to work on their brakes, I don't argue with them. If they want to say no one ELSE should either....that's a bit of a different argument.

People can vote with their wallets. If enough don't buy things that have undesirable features, sellers eventually drop the features to improve sales. While waiting, its typically unproductive to demand that features you personally don't want, are banned. 

My points address the practical aspect of it, mainly that the only use is when you're NOT being looked for...so, those who LOOK, would not of course be affected...as we are NOT the target demographic. My point is NOT that you need SOS on a light, its that there is only one specific scenario where you might....and that that scenario is statistically unlikely to occur.

:thumbsup:


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## RWT1405 (Jul 10, 2015)

LOL WalkIntoTheLight! 

Mr Floppy, I have read many LEOs, Firefighters, Medics, and Soldiers here, most of whom told a bit about themselves and their experience, when offering advise here. 

I have heard TEEJ mentioned in many other posts, and was just curious what experience he has. If that's a problem, I am very sorry. However, when people offer advise, how I take it, depends a lot on what their experiences are/were. I think most people, do the same. So unless he is some sort of "secret agent man", why is it such a hard question?

However, as always, YMMV.


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## TEEJ (Jul 10, 2015)

It was asked as an invitation to challenge the opinion. This is not the same as a casual conversational inquiry.

I'm mostly retired, but work on a consulting basis, primarily in forensics.

I get calls from dispatch if needed for emergencies, and respond to fires as well, as I'm also a fire investigator, and with the Red Cross.

I like long walks on the beach, and pina coladas, eh...etc. :grouphug:


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## RWT1405 (Jul 10, 2015)

Thank you for your response TEEJ, but sorry to hear that you took such a simple question and made such a judgment. I think you forgot to add mind reader to you resume! 

Your experience in forensics and fire investigation is very interesting.


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## Jiri (Oct 21, 2015)

Have you ever seen movie *Panic Room *with Jodie Foster?  ))) 

Seriously... I quite like SOS modes on flashlights (no matter that most of people will never ever have to use it, but I think that is just someone's personal assumption ... SOS like this can flash all night on its own in the case of real emergency, so I don't have to click it with my hand all night long as an idiot. There are floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, plane crashes, all over the world, people getting lost in the wilderness. Have you ever seen Ray Mears survival series? Well, I think just people from cities, not going outdoors often can not really appreciate this mode or can't really think of a situation they could use SOS mode. 

If the SOS mode is hidden in the UI, I don't really mind having it... just in case, on the contrary I really like having the option. That's my opinion.


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## bykfixer (Oct 21, 2015)

Eh, it's a fad imo...that makes the average joe feel like they have a genuine [email protected]@$$ tactical light like they see in the movies. 

I have a couple of lights with those features. And for travelling, venture off the beaten path or what have you, they go with me as a backup. It's like having water proof matches to me.

But I do wish this fad would end soon so we can go back to most store bought flash lights having either off/on or a hi/lo. 
And if the average joe wants to have a strobe, they pick the one with strobe/sos. Time will test if the feature becomes permanent. If law suits ever begin from the ill effects...you can bet the feature will go away in 'consumer' lights anyway.

Some of my collection is acquiring 'the last years model' simply because they hadn't added those features yet.


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## Jiri (Oct 21, 2015)

5S8Zh5 said:


> Watch the movie Panic Room. .....



+1
that's what I am talking about


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## Launch Mini (Oct 21, 2015)

As for SOS, hopefully I will never need it, but there are locations I am in where the chance of needing it might be there ( ie quadding. I don't always follow the original trail I set out on. Came close to needing it on one venture. Like Gilligan's Island, our 1 hour trip turned into 10 when the weather changed and we lost our bearing in new territory.)
I do actually miss the strobe feature on my original SPY007. They were the perfect Hallowe'en lights. One flashing to cast shadows in the upstairs windows, the other flashing in the Jack O Lantern.

Now that my morning walks are in the dark, I would consider buying a flashlight with a red flasher on the tail end, so that I am then visible from front & the back.


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## markr6 (Oct 21, 2015)

Every night, when I'm either floating in the middle of the Pacific on an inflatable raft or wandering in the middle of the Serengeti, I am glad to have an SOS with me!


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## Dr. Tweedbucket (Oct 24, 2015)

This is exactly why > 


One humanoid escapee
One android on the run
Seeking freedom beneath a lonely desert sun
Tryin' to change it's program
Tryin' to change the mode, crack the code
Images conflicting into data overload

One, zero, zero, one, zero, zero, one
SOS
One, zero, zero, one, zero, zero, one
In distress
One, zero, zero, one, zero, zero

Memory banks unloading
Bytes break into bits
Unit one's in trouble and it's scared out of it's wits
Guidance systems break down
A struggle to exist, to resist
A pulse of dying power in a clenching plastic fist

One, zero, zero, one, zero, zero, one
SOS
One, zero, zero, one, zero, zero, one 
In distress
One, zero, zero, one, zero, zero

Replays each of the days
A hundred years of routines
Bows it's head and prays
To the mother of all machines
All machines

One, zero, zero, one, zero, zero, one
SOS
One, zero, zero, one, zero, zero, one
In distress
One, zero, zero, one, zero, zero

It replays each of the days
A hundred years of routines
Bows it's head and prays
To the mother of all machines
Mother of all machines


:sweat:


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## Skaaphaas (Oct 25, 2015)

markr6 said:


> Every night, when I'm either floating in the middle of the Pacific on an inflatable raft or wandering in the middle of the Serengeti, I am glad to have an SOS with me!


In the Serengeti you may rather want a .375 H&H as your companion


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## Burgess (Apr 27, 2016)

Thread has really died down here.


Gotta' point out that TODAY ( April 27, 2016 ) is:


*Morse Code Day ! ! !*


https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/morse-code-day/

:wave:
_


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## ingineer (Apr 27, 2016)

Burgess;
HI HI
FB OM
73


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## NevC (Apr 28, 2016)

I purchased a tactical as the light specs were what I was looking for.
you seem to be able to get more info on these torches than standard versions.

Re SOS Mode, I am not fussed about having it.

What I do not like is that having to rotate through each mode to get back to full beam mode.

Better mode selection would solve any problems.


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## Skaaphaas (Apr 28, 2016)

NevC said:


> I purchased a tactical as the light specs were what I was looking for.
> you seem to be able to get more info on these torches than standard versions.
> 
> Re SOS Mode, I am not fussed about having it.
> ...


What light do you have? It is rare to find a quality light these days that you have to cycle through the blinky modes as well.


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## NevC (Apr 29, 2016)

Skaaphaas said:


> What light do you have? It is rare to find a quality light these days that you have to cycle through the blinky modes as well.



I have a generic tactical one that needs to cycle through modes.
Mates have better brands that do same, but they would be classed as older models and most likely old technology.

I have ordered a Crelant V6CS that does not do that.

I am still learning about what is available as I do not see many good brands here in Australia.


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## mcnair55 (Apr 29, 2016)

It is about time they made lights suitable for what most people need.In normal edc use or for the kitchen drawer moon/low/med and high is ideal.For the wannabe 007 secret agents or adventurer hobby/pro user lights could be purchased with all the fancy modes.As a former Lifeboat member, the SOS would be far more beneficial as a signaling device.To me the strobe is just poser mode.


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## SV_huMMer (Apr 29, 2016)

The properly implemented SOS mode (i.e. with long enough pause beween "words", so that the whole thing does not become SOSSOSSOS at best, or even SOSOSOSOSOS) does not hurt to have. As a private pilot, I could certainly imagine the use of it, albeit I wholeheartedly wish myself and all others to never have to actually use it for anything else other than "showing off" to unenlightened ones: "Look, what cool new flashlight I have, and it can even do SOS!


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## adnj (Apr 29, 2016)

I believe that SOS is potentially beneficial. I think of it as a spare tire that I never want to need to use but wouldn't want to go without. 

There are tons of lights that have the hidden STROBE and SOS. Some with direct access to SOS. Lots with memory, no memory, moonlight low, etc. The problem is that you aren't likely to be able to get one at you neighborhood discount store. You probably will need more than one, also. 

I like moon mode at night, strobe when I'm on a bicycle, night diving or in the woods, Hidden SOS if I'm on the water, direct to high when I'm looking down the road. And we haven't even begun to talk about flood vs. throw, rechargeable vs primary, clicky vs magnetic switching, or AAA vs 18650. See the pattern? 

The prices for good quality lights are below $50 now and there isn't a lot of effort going into user interface design. Many of these lights use the same microprocessor for control and only vary the circuit for current level by use of surface mount components. I have different preferences and mine aren't the same as others. But I don't try to solve my needs with a single light that has the lowest price in the clearance section but some people do. My biggest problem is just trying to remember where I left it.


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 29, 2016)

Speaking of SOS mode.... I just accidentally found it on a cheap chinese 2x18650 power bank. It blinks a single 5mm LED and is activated by holding the button that turns the LED ON/OFF for about 5 seconds. I'm not sure it would really be effective due to the low lumen output but running off 2x18650 it probably would run for a week or two continuously.


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## Lord Flashlight (May 5, 2016)

Many modern flashlights would be useless for tapping out Morse code manually (unless it's a single mode light with momentary). So they put an automatic SOS mode in by default.

If your best does it all tactical flashlight doesn't allow for the simplicity of being able to use it in this way, you might want to consider how good a light it really is.


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## vadimax (May 5, 2016)

We cannot predict many things: traffic accident, heart attack, forest or apartment fire. Of course, better never to face that kind of events, but if happens, SOS light may happen to save ones life.


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## mbp1 (May 16, 2016)

vadimax said:


> We cannot predict many things: traffic accident, heart attack, forest or apartment fire. Of course, better never to face that kind of events, but if happens, SOS light may happen to save ones life.



I don't disagree with you but this mentality can be taken too far. Evaluating features like an SOS function has to do with assessing the likelihood of using the feature vs. its drawbacks... The likelihood of using an SOS function is incredibly low, probably significantly less than a traffic accident. I would only ever want it on a light if it were quite well hidden and involved no other relevant drawback, but that is for my situation, and others may need it more. But not many, I suspect.


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## gotothelight (May 25, 2016)

I just wish the SOS setting on my Surefire Invictus wasn't located between "OFF" and "MIN". What were they thinking?


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## Burgess (May 25, 2016)

SOS mode ? ? ?


I wish, instead of just Blinking out 3 dots, 3 dashes, and 3 dots 

that it did something REALLY helpful and useful !


Dialing 911 , fer' instance . . . . 




_


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## RWT1405 (May 26, 2016)

Burgess said:


> SOS mode ? ? ?
> 
> 
> I wish, instead of just Blinking out 3 dots, 3 dashes, and 3 dots
> ...



+1


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## eh4 (May 26, 2016)

SOS mode would be useful in the classic emergency situation, where you've crashed, you're now going to focus on staying warm, dry, and hydrated, and rest, and or cope with injuries. It needs to be able to run long enough to become a "please find my body" beacon if it comes to that. -SOS should be slow, both for battery duration and readability. 

I wouldn't mind a well designed SOS mode as one of Zebralight's flashing modes, but the high and low beacon mode takes care of most of my flashy needs. I like how the low beacon level is tied to the low mode last used, very useful.


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## pec50 (Jun 9, 2016)

Every other mode on a flashlight has multiple purposes. SOS has only one. 
-an old SAR guy


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## ericjohn (Jun 11, 2016)

Currently in my edc backpack among other things, I have a special compartment. This compartment contains items that I'll carry if I need to run away or evacuate quickly, but I won't be allowed to bring my backpack. In it I have a UST 2AAA Moon Force flashlight (which is equipped with high, low and SOS.) An incandescent Mini Maglite, black in color. A TI-36X Pro. AND A Midland HH50 pocket weather radio.

These items, along with my two GSM phones and chargers (which are in the neighboring compartments) are the skeleton crew of my edc gear.

Basically, I've been fantasizing about getting away from dangerous people and carrying those items. It's weird, but I think many fellow flashaholics have done similar at one point or another.

Part of the fantasy is hiring the pilot of a small plane (like a stripped down Cessna) and helping him/her navigate through the dark night sky. (Though I have no aviation experience.) Since it is a stripped down model their needs to be a calculator to help with figuring and plotting a course. The weather radio (especially this model) scans for the strongest local signal (good to avoid severe weather while flying.) The Mini Maglite or the UST Moon Force on low mode to help the pilot see his/her instrument panel. Also the UST with SOS mode to initially signal for help or in case the plane crashes and we survive.

Now that I have said that:

I think SOS is a great feature on a flashlight if traveling anywhere, especially by air or water. 

For instance, a plane crashing in the middle of nowhere at night the SOS could signal pilots (or rescue crews if the EPIRB is activated.)

Or the same thing on a sinking vessel to signal another boat or a rescue helicopter.

It would also have some use on land inasmuch as the police or other responders might not always understand Morse code, but they will check out a blinking light if for anything else a vision hazard to other drivers.

I'm now thinking of writing that fantasy into a short story.

If/when I do, I will post it on here (Candlepower Forums), but also Writer's Beat and Legend Fire. Would anyone else happen to belong to those forums?


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## eraursls1984 (Jun 11, 2016)

I think S.O.S. and beacon modes are great on any flashlight if hidden. Strobe on the other hand, I feel is pointless unless easily accessible from off.


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## Smjsychj (Jun 12, 2016)

God bless you won't need it ever.
God bless you have it when you need it.


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## Esperologist (Jun 13, 2016)

Personally, I like the idea of having an SOS mode available... but I want it out of the main line yet still easy to access. If I hit it when I accidentally over-shoot the regular mode I want then it is in a bad spot. If it is at the end of the auxiliary mode line so it takes me a while to get it active, it is in the wrong spot.
I have 5 flashlights and they 3 of them have SOS mode (including the 395nm UVA). The D25AAA and D25LC2 Mini, I keep hitting the strobes and SOS accidentally.. while the G25C2 MkII I'm not sure where in particularly the SOS is in the auxiliaries so I would have to hunt for it if I needed it.
If I was worried about needing SOS, I'd want a flashlight that was like 'triple click to SOS'... and a separate flashlight for strobe - or at least a separate auxiliary line.


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## smokinbasser (Jun 14, 2016)

Being a bass (duh) fisherman I go out at night and there are all sorts of problems you could have like shearing the pin securing the prop to the shaft , draining the batteries moving around at night, tagging a stump , or running out of gas at the most inconvenient time like at the back of a bay just off the main lake. I have a 1&1/2 gallon tank I use on my whitewater raft but I set up the fuel connections so I can carry it in the bass boat too. If you only go out in the daylight it might not be needed at all but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## terjee (Jul 25, 2016)

Smjsychj said:


> God bless you won't need it ever.
> God bless you have it when you need it.



I think this pretty much sums up my feelings on the issue.


I also think that it would be nice to have an SOS-feature, but I think we have the wrong one. What I'd like to see, is for when you're thinking:

"I have called/radioed (or can't), and I'm falling asleep. Oh my God, how are people going to find me?"

I think morsing SOS is fine, but I think what would make such a feature usable is battery-conservation, rather than the morse code. Being able to just enable the mode on the light, and have it do sensible things. You probably wouldn't need to morse at 4000 lumen. You also probably wouldn't need it to continuously morse it, and not doing it continuously could even be a good thing for grabbing attention. A continuous stream is easier to mentally tune out.

Could even consider sequences such as:
- rapid flashing for 3 seconds
- one SMS
- wait 3 seconds
- morse SOS three more times, 1-2 seconds pause in between
- wait 15 seconds
- repeat from step one

Basically have a fairly low "on time", or otherwise be tweaked so you'd get 12 hours of use out of the flashlight, even if you're at 30% battery. Could even take into account the current battery status when you enable SOS-mode, and budget power so you'd make sure you have runtime for at least X hours, for some wise definition of X.

If something bad happens to you, and you're injured or disoriented, best would be if there were just two very simple instructions for how to kick in such a mode. Something as simple as "enable the mode, point light to large reflective thing, hillside or similar". Something you could follow even when not thinking clearly.

While I'm not sure if anyone has been found due to SOS-modes of flashlights specifically, it's probably no surprise that people have been found due to the light on their cellphone, and similar. While I agree that any strobe mode could for the most part replace an SOS-mode, I think a battery conserving mode could actually end up making a difference.

As to it being a selling-point, that's probably true, but I'm not sure I mind too much. There hasn't been a lot of false alarms due to SOS-modes (that I'm aware of), and if these things can be used to sell flashlights to inexperienced hikers taking on a trip they're not prepared for, everyone wins. 
(half joking on the last point, I do get that it's mostly a matter of selling point over competing lights).

Bottom line for me, is that if I were considering two otherwise identical flashlights, but only one of them with a battery conserving SOS-mode that I could easily but not accidentally enable, I'd easily choose that one.


terjee


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## markr6 (Jul 25, 2016)

terjee said:


> I also think that it would be nice to have an SOS-feature, but I think we have the wrong one. What I'd like to see, is for when you're thinking:
> 
> "I have called/radioed (or can't), and I'm falling asleep. Oh my God, how are people going to find me?"



That's a good point. Given this happens about never in your lifetime, it should be a HIDDEN mode. Not the crap that comes on every time you cycle they the modes twice. 

Some manufacturers have the right idea. For example, many Fenix lights require you to hold down the mode button for a few seconds. That makes perfect sense to me.


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## terjee (Jul 25, 2016)

markr6 said:


> That's a good point. Given this happens about never in your lifetime, it should be a HIDDEN mode. Not the crap that comes on every time you cycle they the modes twice.
> 
> Some manufacturers have the right idea. For example, many Fenix lights require you to hold down the mode button for a few seconds. That makes perfect sense to me.



Fenix solution sounds good. For two-button flashlights, it could also be something like holding down one button, while pressing the other button three times. Hard to do accidentally, easy intentionally, and hopefully easy to remember.

terjee


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## mcnair55 (Jul 25, 2016)

I have no use for it but wild campers and other outdoor anoraks may find it useful.Prefer it a hidden feature.


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## CelticCross74 (Jul 25, 2016)

where I live getting knocked off the road into a deep ditch or ravine is a frightening possibility. If I am stuck the SOS and beacon modes could be life savers


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## d88 (Jul 30, 2016)

Various reasons why I prefer an SOS mode. 

I like to go climbing in the Scottish Highlands and no matter how experienced and skilled climber you are, accidents do happen. 

Secondly, due to the nature of my work there's always the possibility of me ending up in some remote area or bit of water I didn't plan on being in . 

So why an SOS mode? Apart from the obvious it's the international distress signal, even someone who does not recognise it as SOS, will still see a light source giving off irregular patterns which is out of the ordinary and hopefully peak their interest enough to further investigate or at least call the relevant authorities.

Furthermore, at night it may not be unusual for climbers/walkers /campers to be out using their torches in certain areas. So having an unusual light pattern stands out immediately for any would be rescuers.

Finally , a few years back I was fortunate to speak to a SaR pilot working the Scottish Highlands. He stated that as soon he turned his helicopter into a Glen (valley)looking for a casualty, usually it was a case of searching for the proverbial needle in a haystack, which could take hours. If the casualty is signalling with a distinctive light source such as an SOS, this would grab their attention straight away and depending on the terrain, weather, altitude their at etc, they could easily spot the casualty 10-20 miles away. 

I do agree though, it should definitely be a hidden mode and hopefully with good luck, you'll never have to use it for it's intended purpose. 

One other thing, if you are going into remote or higher risk areas, a good quality whistle is also useful. Distinctive sound and light patterns are your best allies in attracting attention.


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## Fcmem (Aug 1, 2016)

I don't know Morse code, I'd not be able to recognize sos even if I seen it.
I can see it being useful though if you just put it on sos and you don't have to keep working the light.

on the other hand day 2 day I find strobe and sos just get in the way..

my preference is either 1 mode.. or 3 mode high.med.low, but most 3 mode lights are'nt that.


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## Going_Supernova (Aug 2, 2016)

I've read this thread through from beginning to now, and it seems to me that the main complaint about SOS mode isn't having the mode on the light, but it being inconveniently placed within the user interface to where it keeps getting activated when not needed, thus being an annoyance. IMO, the mode should NOT be hidden, but made prominent on a dedicated button. You never know whether you will be the one able to use your flashlight--you might be knocked unconscious, but someone else may be able to use it. If the mode is "hidden", the mode's existence and the method of activation known only by you, then the other person will have zero to little chance to activate the mode. The SOS mode button should be prominently displayed as such. There should be some kind of safety lock on the button, so that it cannot be pressed accidentally--perhaps a spring-hinged clear hard plastic cover over a recessed button...


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## terjee (Aug 2, 2016)

Fcmem said:


> I don't know Morse code, I'd not be able to recognize sos even if I seen it.



I get that, it and probably applies to a lot of people. A lot of people that took the time to learn it probably wouldn't be able to actually use it anymore either, due to disusage. I certainly fall into that category.

Some do know it though, and the more trained your are as a rescuer, the higher the likelihood is that you'll recognise it. As has been mentioned previously in the thread, even if you don't know it, the repeating pattern well certainly appear to be signalling *something*, and that can increase the chances that someone will check it out.

The SOS-code is much more well known that morse code in general though, and it's an easy to remember pattern; three short, three long, three short. There, now you know it too. 

If you don't remember which is which (if it's the first/last or the middle that's long), just remember that it's the one option that'd use less power (2 of the sequences are short, 1 long, rather than the other way around).

And finally, just like SOS is one quick character away from SMS in ASCII, it is with morse code as well. Nokia made morse code for SMS famous with their SMS-notification (dut, dut, dut.... duuuut, duuut... dut, dut, dut).



Going_Supernova said:


> IMO, the mode should NOT be hidden, but made prominent on a dedicated button.



I see your points, but I disagree with your conclusion. First off, if it's a dedicated button, it won't be used regularly, and there's a risk of malfunction going unnoticed. Secondly, anyone arriving at a scene where you're unconscious are very unlikely to start looking for a flashlight with an SMS-mode. They're far more likely to focus on you, and then on their own equipment.

I do agree that it shouldn't be too hard to get to the mode though, and it should be possible to get to it in a reduced state.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 2, 2016)

terjee said:


> I see your points, but I disagree with your conclusion. First off, if it's a dedicated button, it won't be used regularly, and there's a risk of malfunction going unnoticed. Secondly, anyone arriving at a scene where you're unconscious are very unlikely to start looking for a flashlight with an SMS-mode. They're far more likely to focus on you, and then on their own equipment.
> 
> I do agree that it shouldn't be too hard to get to the mode though, and it should be possible to get to it in a reduced state.



A dedicated button would add a lot of cost to most lights because it would require two buttons and a circuit board that would handle two buttons also and I don't think most people would pay even an extra $5 more for SOS on their light. Personally I see flashing mode on lights a little more useful than SOS as you can use it to get attention also and disorientate people it also saves power over constant on modes. 
IMO people who know that they will need a rescue "beacon" could buy one specifically designed for such separately that way when they really need it in an emergency they won't find the batteries dead in their flashlight with SOS mode unable to help them after using it half the night on high mode. 
Almost every cheap 5-mode Chinese light has strobe and SOS modes on them which IMO are 1.5 wasted modes because not very often is even strobe that useful to most folks.


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## Aries256 (Aug 11, 2016)

I kind of like the SOS mode, more of a Id rather have it when i need it, than not have it. Manually pulsing out SOS if it should be needed would be tiresome imo. Location mode, now that one Im not sure what use i would have for that, but again its a mode I have should I need it.


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## Light Bringer (Aug 20, 2016)

Timothybil said:


> I believe that someone's marketing department was brainstorming on features for a new light. Someone probably said it should have a momentary button so the user could use it to send code like SOS. Someone else said let's make it easy and program an SOS mode so they just have to turn it on. They all thought that was a great idea so it became a feature. Once their light hit the market everyone else rushed to do the same so that hey could claim that feature too.



Plus, the strobe/sos is a few extra bytes of firmware in the uP, so costs *nothing*, vs an extra capacitor or resistor, which might cost a few pennies per unit.

But it's "extra!!!", an extra mode or two, so it's *perceived* extra value at zero cost.

For the luxury of EDC, I'm okay with a driver that has a uP on board, and has useful modes (from firefly to turbo). But that uP can go mental, as it did on a SK98 I have. Worked fine for over a year, starting in high as it was programmed to. Now it starts on low instead of high, so I have to go through strobe and SOS to get to high, something I don't want to do, so I no longer carry it. It could have just as easily gotten stuck on strobe or SOS... or off!

For the ultimate in reliability, stick with a 1-mode driver, just a few 7135s and diode. A mental uP can switch modes at random, get stuck in the wrong mode, or just get stuck in "off". For a TEOTWAWKI light, it's 1-mode for me, and multi-mode for versatility when I have the luxury of swapping lights.

Point being, after my roundabout preamble, that if a light has a uP at all with *any* modes to play with, some idjit will stick on strobe, SOS, you name it, for the "extra value" to the consumer.


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## seery (Aug 21, 2016)

Used to despise SOS mode, but another [similar] thread convinced me it's a nice option to have. As long as it's [deeply] hidden, it's all good. 

But in today's world, if I were lost, stranded, or needed to attract attention, I honestly feel that Strobe mode would be much more effective.


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## bassthumper (Aug 21, 2016)

As others have stated, it's not particularly a deal breaker for me, but if I had the choice between two identical lights (one with, one without), I'd probably choose the one without SOS.

My 4sevens quark has it, but it is so slow that anyone actually looking for it would probably be long gone (or asleep) before it finished cycling one time. 

If, as a light manufacturer, you just absolutely MUST put it in the light, make it cycle in about 3 to 4 seconds. I know part of the issue is power savings, but having it take 10 seconds to cycle SOS just doesn't seem reasonable from a "recognition" standpoint. All things being equal, I'd rather just have a strobe as I think it's much more effective than a delayed SOS.

Now, just a quick story: When my and my brother were kids, we went fishing up in Canada and got lost. After getting some rough directions back to camp, we started back in the boat, only to run out of gas. As it was getting dark, I could just BARELY make out what I thought was my buddy's boat in the distance. I pulled out my disposable camera and flashed it a couple of times, and he saw it and came and picked us up. Point is, if you're out in a boat and someone is looking for you, ANYTHING can work to get somebody's attention. 

By the way, I'd love to have had ANY kind of flashlight at that time, but I was young and very ill prepared. Even an old single mode would have been better than nothing, and arguably just as effective.


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