# Choosing a lathe



## KC2IXE (Apr 21, 2009)

Hey Gang,
There is a real good chance that later this year I'll be in the market for a new lathe to replace my Atlas 12x36.

Now, first, I LIKE my Atlas except for a few things (3at collets, 3/4" spindle bore). 

Now, my budget for the lathe will go fairly high - to give you an idea, I'm seriously considering things like a tricked out HLVH (yeah, I know what they cost). Whatever I get, it's got to have a lever or pneumatic collet closer, and I'd like to equip it with a bed turret (grab one from a DV-59 or something for the HLVH)

Here is the question - I know some of you have some fairly nice CNC lathes. I'm thinking of going CNC (conversational programming/teaching preferred)

Here is the other big limit - I have to get it down a 27" staircase - yes, I know I'll have to disassemble it

Anyone have recommendations?


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## kromeke (Apr 21, 2009)

How big are the parts you're hoping to make?

Maglite sized, or small stuff? 

I've seen this one before, and some others like it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hardinge-HSL-59...1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

That is the kind of machine I'd like to have. If it can do CNC threading, which isn't clear to me in the machine pictured above. (you need a spindle encoder to do threading). The machine above might do it, and I'm not in a position to buy such a lathe, so I haven't asked the seller questions.

It is built on a Hardinge speed lathe, short bed, usually the non-cnc ones have a cross slide fitted and a compound, but it is modular. The spindle is 5C so you can clear 1" bar with it. It also has an outside taper, so you could fit a chuck or use pot chucks for large bezels and such. 

I'm not a fan of "conversational" programming. I'm old school g-code. New school is CAD/CAM with post-processor. 

I'm looking at producing cr123 or CR2 edc sized products, so this lathe would be very cool, I think. As long as it does threading.


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## KC2IXE (Apr 21, 2009)

Larger stuff. Here is the issue - I do some production work (ran off a 90 piece order the other week - and like a lot of hobbiests, I don't charge nearly enough IMHO), but I also do things like build live steam trains - so you'ss see me turning 6 or 8 inch diameter wheels, flywheels etc

As a MINIMUM, we're talking a 12x36 class machine, with the 5C closer. The Microkinetics is "cute", but, for instance, one of the 1st things I'd want to do is toss the compound (why you need that on a CNC lathe is beyond me), and setup some sort of Tee slotted cross slide, so I could gang 2-3 tools (say a depth stop, a turning tool, and a drill - prefer 4 tools, but)

Something in that kind of work envelope (36 between centers is plenty, I only have 24 now), and 12" swing is plenty

As I said, I'm seriously thinking of picking up an HLVH IF I can also pick up a turret for it for that 1 production job (which, BTW, I think I figured out how to cut about 25% off the cycle time the other day - woot to that!). Stll, playing "Hand operated screw machine" gets old, fast

I do have a few ideas for a paying product. 90% of THAT product will be mill work, but there will be a few small threaded/knurled parts - right now, I'd probably use the turret knurling tool I have, plus the geometric die head, but the dog is reducing the 3/8" stock (brass) down to #6 before tunning on the die head (I've NEVER been able to get my box tool to work - serious chatter, but I think that's a limit of the lever tailstock turret I have

I keep thinking that something like an Accuslide or an Omiturn on say a DV59 would be about right

forgot to mention - budget for this will probably be in the 15K-20K range


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## cmacclel (Apr 21, 2009)

This machine one step down from mime may be doable in your location but finding a machine with a turret might be difficult other that the old school Hardinge style. If your spending up to 20k why would you buy a manual when you can have a CNC. These lathes are super easy to program.....1-2 hours and your a pro.

$18,500

http://www.southwesternindustries.com/swi/prod_lathes5.shtml

Mine which is the next step up featuring constant surface speed and provisions for gang tooling and a $3.5k 4 position turret tool post.

http://www.southwesternindustries.com/swi/prod_lathes1.shtml

Mac


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## precisionworks (Apr 21, 2009)

> but finding a machine with a turret might be difficult


Quite a few (very old) turret lathes show up at auctions, Craigslist, etc. Most have issues. Age being one ... these are 1940's to 1950's machines - those being the last made. Back then, not even production shops ran carbide tooling, and carbide inserts had not been invented ... so the top spindle speeds are under 1000 rpm, which means it's impossible to turn small parts. But they're cheap, and a few hundred bucks will buy most of them, including a truckload of obsolete tooling:thinking:



> why would you buy a manual when you can have a CNC


+1

Look at Brian's machine, or look at the similar Haas toolroom model. Either one will run circles around any manual turret machine ever made, including the venerable HLV-H.


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## cmacclel (Apr 21, 2009)

The Haas TL-1 which is there entry model is $28k and weighs 4k 

Mac


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## KC2IXE (Apr 21, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> This machine one step down from mime may be doable in your location but finding a machine ...anip...Mac



IF I go CNC, I don't need a turret, gang tooling will do - the problwm is the 1440 won't fit either in the spot my gurrent lathe is (but that might be able ro be changed), or down the 27" wide stairs (the huge problem)


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## cmacclel (Apr 21, 2009)

KC2IXE said:


> IF I go CNC, I don't need a turret, gang tooling will do - the problwm is the 1440 won't fit either in the spot my gurrent lathe is (but that might be able ro be changed), or down the 27" wide stairs (the huge problem)


 

If you take the enclosure off and remove the electronics box it may fit.

Mac


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## StrikerDown (Apr 21, 2009)

Any possibility you could move to a larger stair case?


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## KC2IXE (Apr 21, 2009)

well, the other problem is that there is a lolly column 39" from the wall where the lathe "wants" to go - it's a small basement.

As for larger steps - I've actually thought of putting an exterior staircase in

My Atlas is a nice size (12x36) except for the little problem of a 3/4" spindle


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## white light (Apr 22, 2009)

Okay so if your thinking about going for a Hardinge HLV ,why not take a look at these http://www.smsa.ch/pl-102tm-cnc-e.html & for the US dealer
http://www.daswiss.com/schaublinHighPrecisionLathes.htm These swiss lathes are nothing less than the best there is.It will fit were you need it to go down the stairs.Maybe take out the loly and put an I-beam up to open your space up.Good luck


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## old4570 (Apr 22, 2009)

Hmmmm : http://cgi.ebay.com/GT27-CNC-Turnin...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

???? : http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-LATHE-HARRI...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:5|294:50

I saw another one , but $21000 ...

Check flea bay .. Things come and go ..


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## KC2IXE (Apr 22, 2009)

old4570 said:


> Hmmmm : http://cgi.ebay.com/GT27-CNC-Turnin...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50
> 
> ???? : http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-LATHE-HARRI...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:5|294:50
> 
> ...



Looked at both - a lttle too large


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## KC2IXE (Apr 22, 2009)

white light said:


> Okay so if your thinking about going for a Hardinge HLV ,why not take a look at these http://www.smsa.ch/pl-102tm-cnc-e.html & for the US dealer
> http://www.daswiss.com/schaublinHighPrecisionLathes.htm These swiss lathes are nothing less than the best there is.It will fit were you need it to go down the stairs.Maybe take out the loly and put an I-beam up to open your space up.Good luck



I know both those lathes (have a friend with one of them), nice, a tad small

Like I said, if it's a Manual Lathe, im 99% sure it'll be a HLVH, although a 12" or so clausing colchester in good shape.

The BIG question really comes down to, do I buy a CNC lathe instead? I've seen some nice CNC lathe retrofits for a HLVH , but I'm quite sure that will put me way way over budget, as it seems a good HLVH is near the top of the budget to begin with. 

So, if I do go CNC, I'll probably have to give up the manual lathe (I don't have the room to keep both the Atlas and whatever I get, as the whole shop is about 14x14, has doors, etc, and has to have a high "wife acceptance factor" as she has to walk through it to get to the laundry room.


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## old4570 (Apr 22, 2009)

http://cgi.ebay.com/2003-OMNITURN-G...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1308|301:1|293:7|294:50

This one ? GT75 Its small for a CNC lathe ..... :thinking:


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## precisionworks (Apr 22, 2009)

> if I do go CNC, I'll probably have to give up the manual lathe


Most every current toolroom CNC lathe can be run with the dials instead of the program. Some allow using the dials for initial setup, capturing the moves & using those as the basis for the automatic program. The best of both worlds in one package


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## KC2IXE (Apr 22, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> Most every current toolroom CNC lathe can be run with the dials instead of the program. Some allow using the dials for initial setup, capturing the moves & using those as the basis for the automatic program. The best of both worlds in one package



What I meant by "give up the manual lathe" was having to go to only the CNC lathe, even if it has manual dials - I won't have room for my current lathe as well as the new lathe

I guess I'll do a bunch of reseach at eastec

(BTW The lathe is totally dependent on Selling Mom and Dad's place - which is waiting on the will to probate - I'm the only Heir, but because Dad was in the nursing home, there is all sorts of court stuff - 10 months so far)


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