# Rohloff bicycle hub



## turbodog (Sep 21, 2013)

I have toyed with getting one of these for years. Got sniped on a nice one (with a bike attached) on ebay the other day. Was a shame too. My bid was already 3k! At least the seller got a decent price for his setup.

But back to the topic...

I have _never_ seen an item with such glowing feedback on amazon as this thing. People are nuts about it, after they turn aloose of the cash to purchase one. I said 'ok' and ordered one from cyclemonkey, the sole US service center for them.

I have pretty high standards, and they were pushed even higher by the price I had to pay for the hub, wheel, spokes, wheelbuilding, disk rotor, and nuts/bolts you need to attach it to your bike.

Yes, the thing is heavy, but that's deceptive. It concentrates the weight in the rear hub. Net weight gain is around 1 lb, depending on configuration. If you've got a frame built for it (dropouts) and an eccentric bottom bracket (no chain tensioner needed), you can get by pretty good on weight.

They do make a little noise, but it wasn't as bad a the youtube videos I had watched.

Shifts are quick and very precise. I was worried about this. They say indexing happens in the hub, and the shifter is dumb. So I was worried that shifting would be imprecise, mushy, and prone to skip around due to the grip shift (rapid-fire not an option).

All of those were false. You can shift by ear, feel (through your hand), or feel (pedal feedback). Pedal feedback is the hardest since shifts are SO quick and seamless.

And yes, you can shift while stopped, coasting, pedaling backwards, pedaling forwards (light to heavy load), and anything in between. Gear engagements are solid. I never 'missed a shift', overshot a gear, got stuck in neutral, or had other problems.

Installation took ~4 hours. I was not in a hurry. Had to work out some small problems with my crank arms and chainring, but that was not a hub problem. 

The hardest part was the shift cable installation. Getting that sucker in the grip shift was close to a nightmare. The instructions, although extremely detailed (it is a german product), were NO help in this area. You have to wrap 1 cable around the shifter and cram it in there, while holding tension, and cussing like mad. Then you remove the shifter a little, enough to hook up the other cable.
(EDIT: found supplementary instructions on cable installation. My method was completely wrong. Cable install done properly is an easy, 30 second, job.)

Once you get the shifter done, then you carefully trim the cables at the other end. Careful... trim them too short and you have to 1)buy new cables and 2)rethread the new cables through the darn shifter.

Overall, the thing, and all parts, are beautifully made. There is a very precise fit to all parts. It look like it should last a quarter-million miles.

I hate grip shift, but I love it on this thing.

Cyclemonkey paired it up with a nice hand built wheel. I gave about $2100 for the hub, spokes, nipples, disk rotor, wheel, external shift box, torque arm, monkeybone adapter, and race face bb-crank-chainring.

If you're on the fence, buy one.


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## ElectronGuru (Sep 21, 2013)

I've read nothing but good things about these. And an internal shifter makes external sprocket setups look and feel like 19th century equipment. I have a shimano 8 speed which is enough gears, but likes to pop out of gear when I least expect it.

Thanks for sharing!


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## turbodog (Sep 22, 2013)

I honestly don't have problems with shifters at all. I've run a few muddy races where both gummed up, but that's unavoidable.

I really bought it out of curiosity. Part of my hesitation was from the 'it'll be good, but not good enough to replace a smoothly-working derailleur setup' line of though. Well, that just went out the window.

I had planned on running in on a spare bike and using it is races when it was raining. The rohloff and disk brakes should allow you to dominate when compared to derailleurs and non-disks. But I guess it's a daily driver now.


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## Steve K (Sep 22, 2013)

I had a buddy use the Rohloff hub when he rode across the USA in 1999. It was an early production hub, and had a tendency to leak oil, but otherwise was trouble free. It really is an incredible bit of engineering, and incredibly rugged. Whether or not it's the right bit of hardware depends on personal needs, but it is good to have the Rohloff option available.


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## chipwillis (Sep 22, 2013)

Lets see a picture of your set-up.

I have this.







I wanted it really bad but it was $6500. I found it on ebay and scorded it for $3500. Been riding the hell out of it.


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## turbodog (Sep 23, 2013)

No picture currently. But it's on a 2011 Orbea Oiz (carbon softtail). This is the same bike I rode from durango, co to moab, ut through the san juan mountains last year.

Took the click box apart tonight and greased it. Neglected to do so during install. Made a slight difference in shifting.

How long does it take for this thing to free up some? Noticable drag in the unit...


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## Steve K (Sep 24, 2013)

turbodog said:


> How long does it take for this thing to free up some? Noticable drag in the unit...



the hub or the shifter?
There are intrisically higher losses in an internally geared hub (IGH) than in a derailleur system. The losses in the IGH vary with the gear selected. I've seen numbers for the Rohloff.... in Bicycle Quarterly?? 
My impressions were that there were some gears with noticeable losses... 5% to 7% maybe (I'm just pulling these numbers out of my ... dusty memory)? One or two gears were direct drive or nearly so, so the losses were very small.


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## gravelmonkey (Sep 24, 2013)

Ah man, this thread is making me want a Rohloff hub now, the mental justification has started! Oh to have more than one gear and not faff with a derailleur! (Currently running a 32*16 singlespeed ridgid On-One Scandal)



chipwillis said:


> Lets see a picture of your set-up.
> 
> I have this.
> 
> ...



Nice bike, absolute bargin for $3500! Is the bottom bracket one of the White Industries ones?


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## chipwillis (Sep 24, 2013)

The bottom bracket is where you can make ajustments. Never looked at it myself, I should change the oil though. I'll wait for next year and I'll start riding my BlackSheep custom Titanium fat bike


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## turbodog (Sep 27, 2013)

Drag in hub. Shifter cables are ok after I greased click box.

When bike is on the stand and I spin the rear wheel... it's noticeable.


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## Steve K (Sep 27, 2013)

This IHPVA publication has some very good data on the efficiencies of hub gears and derailleur gears, including the Rohloff:

http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp52-2001.pdf

It does show that the Rohloff has relatively high drag, even for an internally geared hub, and it does vary with the gear selected.


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## Obijuan Kenobe (Sep 27, 2013)

Steve K said:


> This IHPVA publication has some very good data on the efficiencies of hub gears and derailleur gears, including the Rohloff:
> 
> http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp52-2001.pdf
> 
> It does show that the Rohloff has relatively high drag, even for an internally geared hub, and it does vary with the gear selected.



Now that is a nice post. Smack on point.

obi


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## Steve K (Sep 27, 2013)

I got the IHPVA link from a mtbr forum thread. The thread also discusses the trend for the Rohloff to "wear in", and get a bit more efficient with age. 

The Rohloff is an amazing bit of engineering, but considering that it is essentially two 7 speed hubs connected in series, it's not surprising that it has a fair bit of drag.


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## turbodog (Sep 27, 2013)

I read the pdf. Wow. Rohloff levels were shocking. However it seems they used a new hub. A broken in hub would *seem* to rate slightly better. But more surprising was that their 3x9 mtn group had levels that low.

Then... if your drivetrain is covered in mud/grit... the numbers drop even more. But, that's part of rohloff's marketing... that their geared hub compares very favorably with a real world (dirty) derailleur setup.

I've got about 30 miles on it so far. Gonna ride it to 500 miles then change the oil.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Sep 27, 2013)

Steve K said:


> I got the IHPVA link from a mtbr forum thread. The thread also discusses the trend for the Rohloff to "wear in", and get a bit more efficient with age.
> 
> The Rohloff is an amazing bit of engineering, but considering that it is essentially two 7 speed hubs connected in series, it's not surprising that it has a fair bit of drag.



the abilities of the rohloff to instantly shift any gear from any gear at any time under any condition and not get clogged, jammed, or skip
trumps any sort of drag. the only drawbacks are: pure weight, and for hardcore racers that is an issue

otherwise these hubs rock and are far superior to derailleur systems. I have thousands of miles mountain biking on rohloffs. there used
to be a question...can it handle >1650 watt grunts, and mtb hits all day and night for a race season ? answer is a strong yes indeed

does the weight add up after a 35 mile race ? yep. they are damn fun the dirtier it gets though...


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## Julian Holtz (Oct 2, 2013)

I got myself a NuVinci N360 hub some time ago. This is a continously variable transmission. Not unlike to the Rohloff, but without seperate gears. It is also considerably cheaper, so maybe someone finds it interesting.


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## jtr1962 (Oct 2, 2013)

turbodog said:


> I read the pdf. Wow. Rohloff levels were shocking. However it seems they used a new hub. A broken in hub would *seem* to rate slightly better. But more surprising was that their 3x9 mtn group had levels that low.


I've read in a few places that it takes a really long time for the Rohloff hub to break in. It is something on the order of 10,000 miles. Once broken in, the drag levels should be comparable to a derailleur setup.


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## turbodog (Oct 2, 2013)

I just gotta hook it up to an electric motor and change gears once a day. Wear in w/ be done in a week.



jtr1962 said:


> I've read in a few places that it takes a really long time for the Rohloff hub to break in. It is something on the order of 10,000 miles. Once broken in, the drag levels should be comparable to a derailleur setup.


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## turbodog (Oct 5, 2013)

Spent 2 days riding trails w/ the new hub. Where do I start...

It's a solution in search of a problem. If you suffer from the things the hub is good at, you're golden. Buy one and enjoy it. This includes mud, freezing derailleur (wintertime issue), can't keep your shifting working, etc.

If you don't have those problems, stay far away and enjoy your normal shifting equipment.

Man was this thing slow. (I know... that's bait...) I've got blisters on my hand. It shifts slower than my sram x7 setup. When I came out onto the road at the end of the ride, that's when I knew there were serious sponginess issues with it. Before, I could always hear the tire 'tearing' at the pavement on even medium pedal strokes. This thing would not do it even when standing on the pedals.

I'm gonna keep it around for 24 hr races (rain is often a problem), but for any other riding... sram x7 3x9...

Expensive inquisition/


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## Steve K (Oct 10, 2013)

well, at least that's one more itch that's been scratched, eh??

I've had a similar observation regarding disc brakes on my commuting bike. If you ride in wet sloppy conditions regularly, or have some problem keeping rims straight and true, then discs may be for you. Otherwise... they just seem to be heavy, wear out fast, and a bit fiddly to adjust. I'll give them credit for preventing the generation of aluminum sludge when you ride in the rain, which gets all over your hands if you have to handle the wheels. For my purposes, I'm best served by rim brakes.


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## raggie33 (Oct 10, 2013)

i got a old English bike the hub it uses been around for years and years cant recall the name right now


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## N8N (Oct 10, 2013)

raggie33 said:


> i got a old English bike the hub it uses been around for years and years cant recall the name right now



Probably a Sturmey-Archer 3-speed?


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## raggie33 (Oct 10, 2013)

yeppers that was it .it still works great i just olied it and its great. just wish it went lower we have huge hills


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## turbodog (Oct 10, 2013)

Steve K said:


> well, at least that's one more itch that's been scratched, eh??
> 
> I've had a similar observation regarding disc brakes on my commuting bike. If you ride in wet sloppy conditions regularly, or have some problem keeping rims straight and true, then discs may be for you. Otherwise... they just seem to be heavy, wear out fast, and a bit fiddly to adjust. I'll give them credit for preventing the generation of aluminum sludge when you ride in the rain, which gets all over your hands if you have to handle the wheels. For my purposes, I'm best served by rim brakes.



Think the wife loves it though.

Swapping it to her bike this weekend.


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 11, 2013)

Steve K said:


> I've had a similar observation regarding disc brakes on my commuting bike. If you ride in wet sloppy conditions regularly, or have some problem keeping rims straight and true, then discs may be for you. /QUOTE]
> 
> I switched to discs after locking up rim brakes, trying to prevent a collision. Ended up flying over the handle bars and getting friendly with the concrete. Not sure the car wouldn't have been an improvement. Been a few years and even when trying to create a lock, enough slip keeps it going. Like ABS for bikes.


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## turbodog (Jul 8, 2014)

To revisit an old topic...

I think it suffers from 2 problems:

a. Pure friction. When I spin the wheel while on the bike stand, the pedals want to turn. This may improve as times goes on, gears wear in, and seals loosen up some.

b. Sponginess. I noted before that I was unable to make the bike make 'tearing' sounds on the pavement, even while standing. The HPV test used an electric motor. This was steady state, and any sponginess was negated. Under real-world use, springiness/sponginess consumes energy. 

I think the net numbers are more like 20% loss, give or take. I rode with a friend (making him ride the rohloff), one who I have trouble keeping up with on my BEST days. I was easily able to keep up and overtake him. On a funny note... from the noise it made we ended up calling it the dishwasher.

Still... a solution in search of a problem.

Nice equipment though. Wife still likes it.


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## Steve K (Jul 8, 2014)

at the risk of repeating comments from a year or two ago.. you really do need a good reason to have a Rohloff in order to put up with the intrinsic disadvantages. Even a 3 speed hub has noticeable friction losses. The Rohloff is basically two 7 speed hubs connected in series, so its losses are twice as bad. If you need a very reliable drivetrain, or ride in awful conditions, it may be worth it. If you just want something shiny and high-tech, get a nice watch and stick with a regular derailleur system.


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## turbodog (Oct 21, 2014)

What I'd like to find is about a 5 speed cogset on a wheel with NO dish.


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## Steve K (Oct 24, 2014)

maybe an old tandem hub? The distance from end to end of the axle was pretty long, and ought to be able a 5 speed freewheel with minimal dish. The hard part is fitting it into the frame on a single (i.e. non-tandem) bike.

I used to have a wheel with a Bullseye hub set up for 135mm axle. I used it with a 7 speed freewheel, and it was plenty strong for loaded commuting. If it was respaced for a 5 speed freewheel, the dish would be pretty insignificant. The Bullseye and Phil Wood hubs have strong axles too.


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## turbodog (Dec 14, 2014)

I just could not stay away. Bought ANOTHER rolhoff and put it on a blacksheep fastas softtail mtn bike.

After properly adjusting the shifter cable slack and learning how to ride it, the hub's growing on me. Wife won't give hers up.


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## Steve K (Dec 15, 2014)

I saw some of Blacksheep's work at NAHBS in 2009... pretty slick stuff! Does the Rohloff get used on mtn bikes very often? I'm mostly familiar with them being used on touring, commuting, and utility bikes. 

Glad to hear that you've adapted to the Rohloff and it is working out for you. It does make a bike ride more pleasant to have everything working smoothly and reliably, and not have to deal with quirky, annoying behavior. 

Out of curiosity, does your wife like it because of its ruggedness and reliability, or because it's easier to know which gear you are in (compared to a triple crank, etc.)? I've known some non-technical folks who never really developed an understanding of gearing and found the relative complexity of front and rear derailleurs confusing. An internally geared hub with the gear choices clearly labeled 1, 2, 3, ....etc keep it conceptually much simpler.


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## turbodog (Dec 17, 2014)

Since they are the only hub 'approved' for mtn ruggedness and gear range I'd bet that they are represented more than other hubs. That said... we don't exactly see many of them down here in the deep south.

I never had a shift problem w/ shimano/sram. I guess I like it for a travel bike of sorts. Lets me not worry about banging up a derailleur.

She does better because it's linear. If a standard setup didn't have overlap, cross chaining, etc she would be fine. She drove a stick for a decade and does very well.


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## harro (Dec 19, 2014)

Steve K said:


> at the risk of repeating comments from a year or two ago.. you really do need a good reason to have a Rohloff in order to put up with the intrinsic disadvantages. Even a 3 speed hub has noticeable friction losses. The Rohloff is basically two 7 speed hubs connected in series, so its losses are twice as bad. If you need a very reliable drivetrain, or ride in awful conditions, it may be worth it. If you just want something shiny and high-tech, get a nice watch and stick with a regular derailleur system.



As nice a piece of engineering as the Rohloff hub is ( without question ), to me, its still hard to beat a good cassette/derailleur combo. When compared with Campag Record or Shimano Durace ( on road based machinery, at least ) for example, it feels a bit like trying to ride against a very slight prevailing headwind. I know when you ride, you're always riding into a headwind ( the nature of the beast ). The hub certainly has positive advantages for more extreme situations though. No stopping on the side of trails trying to straighten bent hangars, or untangling your chain from that log/treebranch you just tried to ride over. You could however, have the worst of both ( apologies to anyone who owns one ) worlds, with a combo setup ( internal hub/5 or 6 speed derailleur drive/16 or 20 inch wheel ) on one of the very expensive folding bikes available these days.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 19, 2014)

33 posts and not one picture of a Rohloff hub. :fail:

~ Chance


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## turbodog (Dec 19, 2014)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> 33 posts and not one picture of a Rohloff hub. :fail:
> 
> ~ Chance



Post 5 has one.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 19, 2014)

I saw it. Not enough up-close detail.....doesn't count. :nana:

~ Chance


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## turbodog (Dec 20, 2014)

First 7 pictures are rohloff on ti blacksheep fastas. Last 2 are rohloff on orbea oiz before I put that one on wife' bike.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 21, 2014)

Turbo, 

Are you just teasing me? There are no pictures, just blue and white question marks. 

~ Chance


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## turbodog (Dec 22, 2014)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Turbo,
> 
> Are you just teasing me? There are no pictures, just blue and white question marks.
> 
> ~ Chance



Weird... worked when I set them up. Pics are on google... Will see what I can do.


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## turbodog (Dec 22, 2014)




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## turbodog (Dec 22, 2014)

The tensioner on the orbea was too loose. Pulleys need to be more vertical.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 22, 2014)

Hi Turbodog,

Thanks for the pictures. Bicycle technology has certainly come a long way in the last 50 years. It's now as much art as tool.

~ Chance


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## Steve K (Dec 22, 2014)

that's a big hub, and it's chock full of gears! Here's a link to a cutaway hub that shows the guts....

http://trikeasylum.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/rohloff-hub-internal-view/

it's a marvel of engineering, and amazing that it works at all (at least to my mind).


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## turbodog (Dec 22, 2014)

Getting it to work well took changing the way I shifted. Previously, as I topped a hill, I would pedal lightly and click through gears one at a time (derailleur) until I found the right gear. Now, I just jump forward 3 gears and sort of let it sort itself out.

Locking the bike up when it's on my truck has changed. Now all I lock is the rear wheel. You can have the bike... don't take the wheel though ($).

Need some sort of electric motor so I can quickly get through the break-in period. Hook it up and let it run for 12 hours, then shift to the next gear, and so on...


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 22, 2014)

Steve K said:


> that's a big hub, and it's chock full of gears! Here's a link to a cutaway hub that shows the guts....
> 
> http://trikeasylum.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/rohloff-hub-internal-view/
> 
> it's a marvel of engineering, and amazing that it works at all (at least to my mind).



That is such an awesome piece of technology, it needs to be seen. 







Thanks Steve! 

~ Chance


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## fyrstormer (Dec 22, 2014)

Every now and then I entertain the idea of building a bike with an internal-gear hub, but I keep being put-off by the price. (ironic given the cost of my flashlight collection, I know.) My two mountain bikes cost me somewhere around $7000, one slowly upgraded from stock and the other built from scratch just the way I wanted it, and all those other parts add a significant amount to the cost of the bike. When I consider there is no way I could possibly service a Rohloff hub on my own, so I would be utterly dependent upon a service center which could go out of business at any moment -- without asking my permission first -- it just doesn't seem like a wise investment.

All devices need maintenance, and complex devices need complex maintenance. If I were going to get one of these, because they cost so much, I would want a legally-binding contract of indefinite duration, requiring that someone would be on the hook to fix it, replace it, or repay me the residual value of the device if they couldn't fix or replace it, until such time as I dispose of the device or the universe disposes of me. The reason I was willing to pay so much for my fancy titanium flashlights is because that extra money bought extra durability, but it doesn't buy extra durability here -- just extra complexity.

I might someday build a bike with a Shimano 8-speed Nexus hub and a two-speed crankset, so I could have high-range and low-range. A setup like that, including the rest of the bike if I don't splurge on other needlessly fancy parts, might still cost less than a Rohloff hub.

Purely as an exercise in engineering prowess, though, I agree the Rohloff hub is amazing.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 22, 2014)

fyrstomer. That guy has some cool bikes. I've seen em. Me thinks it's high time someone bumped the bicycle thread.

~ Chance


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## fyrstormer (Dec 22, 2014)

I wish I could ride them, but this past year a "perfect storm" (I hate that term, but it fits) of problems kept me from riding them -- heart palpitations, panic attacks, vertigo, blood-pressure drops, and tailbone discomfort. Just what I need when I have a desk job is to become intolerant of physical exercise. I hope the neurologist will figure it out eventually. But that's a different thread.

- - -

Anyway, someone mentioned a spongy feeling when using a Rohloff hub, and that it wastes energy, but that depends on the reason. If it feels spongy because there's a torque-dampening spring somewhere in the mix (and there should be, with all of those small parts that could get yanked out of position by a sudden shock), then the spring will return very nearly 100% of the energy it absorbs. You could measure the loss with sensitive instruments, but not with your "butt dyno", as car guys say. Automotive clutches have similar springs integrated into them, so even if you "drop the clutch", the driveline shock is stretched out a bit, so the peak force is low enough to avoid catastrophic damage.

I don't know for sure there is a torque-dampening spring in there, but it makes sense that there would be.


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## turbodog (Dec 22, 2014)

Let's read up on rohloff specs before making vast engineering assumptions:

...designed to handle torque of a tandem olympic-level team. Sounds good.

Let's look at anecdotal evidence: Mtn bike forums & road forums speak of it being all but unbreakable.

If there were a spring (there's not), energy stored would be returned when the torque dropped below the current spring tension. In short, the energy would typically be returned against the drivetrain. This would happen at the end of the pedal stroke and be lost.


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## turbodog (Dec 22, 2014)

Going off-topic now...



fyrstormer said:


> I wish I could ride them, but this past year a "perfect storm" (I hate that term, but it fits) of problems kept me from riding them -- heart palpitations, panic attacks, vertigo, blood-pressure drops, and tailbone discomfort. Just what I need when I have a desk job is to become intolerant of physical exercise. I hope the neurologist will figure it out eventually. But that's a different thread.
> ...



Speaking from experience, all those sound like symptoms of the same problem (except for the tailbone). I went through a-fib, cryo-ablation for it, and now live with occasional PACs. 

My offhand advice... get on low dose aspirin in case there is an undiagnosed condition out there. Hopefully that will offer some protection against clotting events (stroke/heart attack) which are about the #1 problem with rhythm problems.

Other than that... find some way to get past it when you have those overwhelming feelings of doom/anxiety/etc. Sometimes I have to remind myself to 'step into the light'. No... not 'go into the light' (that's later). It's a reminder that I can choose to be positive, even when everything in my body and mind is screaming that the world is ending.

And as silly as it sounds... I found a real, causal, relationship between waistband tightness and heart function (rate/pressure/rhythm). This means jean tightness, meal quantity, bending over, scrunching at the waist, anything that put pressure on the abdomen. Even naked, lying in bed, propped on pillows at the wrong angle could trigger an event. You can read up on vagal nerve interaction.

And if your rate/rhythm/pressure gets off... that can trigger some plenty of other feelings you are experiencing.

Cut out stress. Sever ties immediately with those people and situations that cause stress. It was hard to do but so worth it. Get stable and you can rebuild later.


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## fyrstormer (Dec 23, 2014)

Without getting into too much detail, I appreciate your advice and I know from experience that everything you said is valid, but it hasn't solved my unique version of the problem. I now have evidence that there may be a neurological defect underlying my symptoms, so it's not just a state-of-mind thing, and it's not my heart either -- lots of testing has shown everything from my neck down is in great shape.

You're definitely right about waistband tightness causing problems. Lots of important stuff passes through your abdomen, and pinching any of it can cause "non-specific symptoms" from mild discomfort to feeling like you're about to die.

Anyway, bike riding with vertigo is a complete non-starter. Hopefully I can at least get that fixed so I don't have to buy a trike. Those things take up way too much space, and they're not practical to carry up to a third-floor apartment.


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## turbodog (Mar 3, 2015)

For those still watching this thread... stay tuned!

I think I'll rename thread title a little to reflect what I just ordered.


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## turbodog (Mar 19, 2015)

But here we have unboxing/assembly process. I took both kid stoker kits off. It was used and came with them installed.

Thing is wicked fast.


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## Steve K (Mar 20, 2015)

holy cow.... so why did you buy a triple? 

and will you be transporting it on a trunk rack on that little red sports car? 

A buddy had/has(?) a triple, and he didn't use it much. There weren't that many opportunities where three people wanted to ride together. With the right people, though, I'm sure it could be a lot of fun.

oh.. and back to Rohloff hubs.....
I went the NAHBS show in Louisville a few weeks ago. NAHBS = North American Handmade Bicycle Show. Lots of custom bikes and some component manufacturers. Someone had a sectioned Rohloff hub on display.. possibly the same one in the earlier photo?




-


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Mar 20, 2015)

That's pretty cool, Steve. Did you get to play with it?

~ Chance


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## turbodog (Mar 20, 2015)

Our 2 rohloffs continue to improve. Wife loves hers. Mine is not as broken in... it's got seal friction I guess. Everyone talks about the sound, but honestly that's never been a complaint.

The triple??? Ha!

Don't know... we bought a tandem last year. One of the kids and I ride it mostly. Wife and I ride it 'sparingly'. But the other kid complained about wanting to go along.

Talked off and on about a quad with couplers... the ultimate family bike, convertible to a triple or tandem. When I saw this triple I also saw a quad with couplers as well. Problem with it was twofold... someone else was in line before me to buy it and it was 6k. Now, 6k was a good price for that bike, considering original price was pushing 14k, but still, 6k is 6k. So we bought the triple, spending only 3k (shipped to my door).


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## turbodog (Mar 20, 2015)

The bike is a beast. At low speeds it can be 'unwieldy', but at high speeds it's smooth and handles well. It turns better at speed than it does creeping around.

7 water bottle spots
700x32 tires
3x9 drivetrain
front/rear v brakes
rear drag brake
nice purplish paint job... not my fav color, but is in excellent shape

I've got some low profile seatposts on order to give youngest kid another 1/2" drop.

We call it the enterprise. It's like star trek... when you need more power I have to tell the middle rider. They tell the last rider... and about 5 seconds later the power 'comes on'. This works in reverse also... takes several seconds to shut it all down.


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## turbodog (Mar 20, 2015)

The 'kid cranks' have been taken off. They were not needed and weighed a ton. I think they alone go for around $200 each on ebay.

Transporting it??? Right now I plan to use a 6x10 trailer. Depending on how much we travel with it... I can fit it in the truck bed if I use a board to extend the length of the bed.

It's 10'6" from front to back. Do not have a weight yet. The tubes are MASSIVE. they are just under 2" diameter.


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## turbodog (Mar 20, 2015)

Steve K said:


> holy cow.... so why did you buy a triple?
> 
> and will you be transporting it on a trunk rack on that little red sports car?
> 
> ...



I may have bought it from your buddy. It came out of chicago!


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## Steve K (Mar 21, 2015)

turbodog said:


> I may have bought it from your buddy. It came out of chicago!



hmmm... maybe! He has a job in the Chicago area. His first name is Rob.


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## Steve K (Mar 21, 2015)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> That's pretty cool, Steve. Did you get to play with it?
> 
> ~ Chance




Nope... my mom always taught me to not touch other people's stuff. 

I've ridden a buddy's Rohloff equipped bike around the parking lot many years ago. Pretty neat to just twist the shifter and go through 14 gears. Hard to say if it is worth the weight and money.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Mar 21, 2015)

Well, if you haven't had the opperatunity to see one, and how it works, in person, here's the next best option:



Very cool.

~ Chance


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## turbodog (Mar 21, 2015)

Steve K said:


> Nope... my mom always taught me to not touch other people's stuff.
> 
> I've ridden a buddy's Rohloff equipped bike around the parking lot many years ago. Pretty neat to just twist the shifter and go through 14 gears. Hard to say if it is worth the weight and money.



According to Sheldon Brown's site rohloff has never had a failure that rendered the hub useless. There are oil leaks... but the hubs still works.

From my viewpoint... anything that never fails is overbuilt too much. Seems they could drop some weight (biggest drawback) and have a more saleable product.


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## desmobob (Mar 21, 2015)

Steve K said:


> that's a big hub, and it's chock full of gears! Here's a link to a cutaway hub that shows the guts....
> 
> http://trikeasylum.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/rohloff-hub-internal-view/
> 
> it's a marvel of engineering, and amazing that it works at all (at least to my mind).



_*HOLY #$*%&@!!!!!!!!!!!!*_

That is by far the coolest bike part I've ever seen. :thumbsup:

Take it easy,
Bob

2005 Bianchi Axis
2006 Motobecane Champion


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## Steve K (Mar 21, 2015)

well that is pretty neat! They did a nice job of making the design modular, reducing the difficulty of manufacturing it. 
Still... that is a lot of small precision parts produced in relatively small quantities. It helps explain the price.


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## Steve K (Mar 21, 2015)

turbodog said:


> According to Sheldon Brown's site rohloff has never had a failure that rendered the hub useless. There are oil leaks... but the hubs still works.
> 
> From my viewpoint... anything that never fails is overbuilt too much. Seems they could drop some weight (biggest drawback) and have a more saleable product.



perhaps.. but one of the things that attracts people to the Rohloff is the reputation for quality and reliability. Dropping some weight from the hub might improves sales a bit, but the change in design and all of the subsequent validation testing might be hard to justify. On the plus side... I'm guessing that the gears and such are all produced on CNC machines... no expensive molds that would need to be replaced.

Presumably they are working on an updated design? I think they've updated the design a bit at least once. My friend who bought an early version back around 1998 had problems with oil leaking and is not altogether happy with some warranty work done on the hub. They've fixed or reduced the leakage issue, I understand, so some tweaks have occurred since the original version.


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## Ladd (Mar 21, 2015)

Thanks for posting the fascinating video. The design/manufacturing process is always interesting. Brings back fond memories of a recent visit to the TnC-Ogaz machine shop in Ontario, CA.


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## turbodog (Mar 22, 2015)

It's 2, 7 speed devices, strung together. If you go the way of mtn drivetrains... you could maybe drop down to a 1x10 internally with slightly wider spacing. Would help efficiency, weight, mfg cost, etc. In presales, the weight hurts it. After using it, the efficiency hurts it, not the weight.


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## Julian Holtz (May 17, 2015)

desmobob said:


> _*HOLY #$*%&@!!!!!!!!!!!!*_
> 
> That is by far the coolest bike part I've ever seen. :thumbsup:
> 
> ...



Wait, there's more: The Pinion gearbox:













http://www.gizmag.com/pinion-p118-sealed-gearbox/26640/

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Pinion-Gearbox-First-Ride.html

http://pinion.eu/


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## Steve K (May 18, 2015)

Julian Holtz said:


> Wait, there's more: The Pinion gearbox:
> 
> 
> http://www.gizmag.com/pinion-p118-sealed-gearbox/26640/
> ...



I think I saw some of these at a recent bike show. Very impressive engineering! I expect it will end up being an item with low production volume, though. The high weight (2.7kg, or 6 pounds) and the presumed high cost will limit sales, as will the need for it to be designed into the bike frame.
OTOH, if it really becomes popular, someone will figure out how to cut some cost out of production, and we'll see more of them. 

It is nice to see some genuine creativity in bicycle components, as opposed to figuring out how to add one more cog to the cassette.


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## Julian Holtz (May 18, 2015)

Yes, a bike-savvy buddy and me are dreaming about this thing as well.

But there is really a market emerging for luxury bikes here in the recent years, that and E-Bikes are flying off the shelves.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (May 18, 2015)

Julian,

If English is your second launguage, I'm guessing it is, I really admire your command of it. :thumbsup:

~ Chance


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## Julian Holtz (May 19, 2015)

Thanks, Chance, very kind of you! 
I had a good teacher at school, but I really got the hang of it by reading and writing in forums like these. Of course, reading or listening to audio books in a foreign language always adds another level of excitement. And who in his right mind would deny himself access to so much information on the web by refusing to learn another language?


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## turbodog (Aug 15, 2016)

Well, after some light/medium use it's going to get the 3rd degree. I am headed for a week-long mtn bike trip in Colorado with it.


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## fyrstormer (Aug 17, 2016)

On a vaguely-related note, I got some Shimano parts for my still-hypothetical 3rd mountain bike:





Yes, those are roller brakes, and yes, the front one is specially designed to mount to disc-caliper tabs. It was an enormous pain to find all these parts, because many of them are discontinued (story of my life), so I have about 8 roller brakes that I bought at low low prices in order to get all the mounting hardware I need. If the 8-speed hub doesn't provide a wide-enough range of gear ratios, I'll add a 2-speed crankset and a Shimano Alfine chain tensioner.


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## turbodog (Aug 17, 2016)

I've got an arai drum brake that came on the triple-seater. Disconnected the cables, but could not unscrew the assembly.


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## fyrstormer (Aug 25, 2016)

Why disconnect it? You can connect a non-indexed "friction" shifter to the drum brake to make an adjustable drag-brake, so you don't overheat the main brakes on long descents.


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## turbodog (Aug 27, 2016)

There are no long descents within hundreds of miles from here.


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