# PM 1340 or PM 1440



## StrikerDown (Apr 21, 2009)

I am torn. (sounds painful!) Here is the link:http://www.machinetoolonline.com/Newlathes12to14.html

I have been waiting for a PM1236 lathe but they are perpetually out of stock. Matt has offered a nice price for their 13X40 with DRO which is less than retail for a 12X36 w/DRO. Also he is offering a 14X40 w/DRO for the same price which I almost jumped all over until Matt said that it didn't come with a taper attachment like it is listed with as standard on the web site. His web site also says the 14X40 comes with a 5C collet closer, but I'm not sure if it really comes with that either.

I am getting frustrated, I tried to contact Matt all last week and he finally got back to me by thursday with all this info and then confused things on Friday with info different than listed on his site. Now he is on vacation all this week! I was ready to order this morning as soon as I got a few questions cleared up, but HE IS ON VACATION! Where is the icon of the crying baby?

If the two lathes were equiped as indicated I think it would be a no brainer, I have been looking at qualitymachinetoolonline.com for days and the lines are starting to blur!

The 13X40 does not come with a collet closer but does have the taper attachment. Does the 14X40 look to you like a better deal for the same price even if it does not come with a taper attachment but has the 5C collet closer (Which it might not)? 

I don't know how important it is to have a taper attachment, I know it is easier than offsetting the tail stock but I'm not sure I would use either method very often. 

Does an one see any other major difference between the two machines? 

Opinions? Or any other suggestions?


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Apr 21, 2009)

Wow, either way you go, you should be pretty well off. They both beat the pants off of my HF 8x12 

Be sure to take (and post) plenty of pics of whichever one you get


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## precisionworks (Apr 21, 2009)

> I don't know how important it is to have a taper attachment, I know it is easier than offsetting the tail stock but I'm not sure I would use either method very often.


The taper attachment is used (mostly) for threading NPT pipe, oil well threads, and any other tapered thread. Once every few years something odd will come up where you need the TA, but not often. Short tapers, those no longer than the travel of the cross slide, are easy to do without the TA, but are limited to around 3" or 4" on machines this size.

The collet closer is nice, but a 5C collet chuck like the Bison can always be added later.

Other than 1/2" difference in center height, the 1340 and the 1440 look identical. You'll be more than pleased with either one ... see which one he really wants to deal on :thumbsup:


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## wquiles (Apr 21, 2009)

I am VERY happy with my PM12x36 lathe, and I use my lathe at least twice a month, if not more. Coming from the 7x and 8x machines, it is literaly worlds apart in all respects. That being said, if doing it all again, I would probably go the with the 14x40 since I ended up re-arranging my "shop" in a way that fitting the slitghly longer lathe would fit perfectly. I would forget about the taper attachment and try getting the best deal "with" a DRO. If they are both about the same price, go with the heavier machine 

Of course, if I had even more money, I would rather get Brian's PM13x40T lathe :devil:

Will


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## StrikerDown (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks for the advice and moral support! 

I have been leaning towards the PM 1440. I am certain I would be completly satisfied with the PM1236 if they were only available, so this will be plenty of machine, it never hurts to have an extra few inches!

I'm sure that I won't need a taper attachment, at least for a while and the only taper cutting I probably will ever do might be a rifle barrel and that can be done with the tail stock offset. The pictuers of the taper attachment on the web site are not great but it looks like it is not even the close to the length of the saddle travel.

Now if Matt will just get back to me to work out the details. It seems like in this economy a sales person would get back to you more often than every 3-4 days. Sheesh I have money to give him if he only wants it! My last email to him was Sun night so it was on his machine first thing Mon morning.:mecry: 

Will I'm with you on Brians T! Gorgeous machine! But wouldn't you rather have Chris's CNC?


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## Mick (Apr 21, 2009)

I noticed the PM 14 was lighter than the PM13 and the Jet 14 was over 2000 pounds. I know weight is only one factor but that is a light weight 14 incher.


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## wquiles (Apr 21, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> Will I'm with you on Brians T! Gorgeous machine! But wouldn't you rather have Chris's CNC?



Well, if you twist my arm THAT hard, yes, Chris' CNC machine would be pretty nice as well 

Will


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## StrikerDown (Apr 21, 2009)

Unless Im reading wrong the PM1340 is 40lb lighter than the PM1440.

Less cash buys less cast iron I guess!

Will's PM1236 comes in at 310 pounds less than the PM 1440 and he is quite satisfied with it's performance.

This will be quite a step up for me from the 7X10 anyway so I won't be maxing it out any time soon... if ever!

Check out the PM 1440HD It's almost 3,000lb

I guess what I'm saying is I don't need the biggest or best just something that will stand up to light use and do a decent job, with reasonable accuracy.


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## SafetyBob (Apr 21, 2009)

A 1440 (actually around 1640) is about what I have (with, of course, the removable gap if your counting that too), but here is my two cents. If you have the room, you will never ever regret getting that slightly bigger lathe. 

Someday in the future, you will use either the full length or the full usable diameter of the lathe for something, it will be at that point when you really will know you made the right choice. 

Now for the other stuff: I use my collet closer all the time for making flashlight parts. Just to easy to make a part, part it off, start on the next one. And, since when I make heat sinks I am close to the closer, I don't have to worry about hitting any tooling with chuck jaws (not that anyone has ever done that of course....). 

If I had a taper attachment I would use it and if one is available, get it! Again, you won't use it every day, yes I know it could get pricey, but when you need it you need it and will thank your lucky stars for having one. 

Feel very, very lucky that you have a lathe with a DRO from the start. That alone is priceless to those of use who don't have one and are swearing at ourselves for not budgeting sooner for one. 

Oh, don't get to bent out of shape about Matt maybe not being Jonny on the spot with info. That is your clue to sit down, think, and reason this out. Have your choice and options ready to discuss with Matt. Be prepared for this isn't here or that will have to be ordered. Even if you were ordering a $200,000 CNC unit, they would have to get another part before you would be cutting metal. 

Good luck and let us know what you end up with and I personally want pictures of your setup!!

Bob E.


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## StrikerDown (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks Bob,

I just get anxious when I make up my mind to spend money and need info, and it is just a tad frustrating not getting it for days! It sort of makes me think the service after they have the cash will be even worse. Not a big deal since this is a hobby toy not a money maker, as long as there is service if needed.

The DRO is on special right now which puts the price about the same as the PM1236 with DRO at the regular price, what the heck you only live once!

Oh, you will have to share the pics with Will!

Ray


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## StrikerDown (Apr 23, 2009)

Vacations seem MUCH longer when it's not you vacating! :devil:


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## precisionworks (Apr 23, 2009)

You may also want to look at the 16x40 Lion, made in Eastern Europe. They'll always negotiate on the price, and probably more so today as sales everywhere are slow.

http://www.lionlathes.com/lathes/16m.html

http://www.lionlathes.com/lathes/spec16m.html


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## StrikerDown (Apr 23, 2009)

OMG!

Weight is over 2.5 times, Spindle bore is over 2" Think a D [email protected] will fit! :devil:

If it is sold by the pound I can't afford it! 

Sure looks nice, I'll email for a price, Who knows.

Huh, No email!


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## StrikerDown (Apr 23, 2009)

Barry, 

You need this, I want pictures when you get it!

http://www.lionlathes.com/mills/index.html


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## precisionworks (Apr 23, 2009)

> Huh, No email!


No, but they're really nice on the phone:thumbsup:



> If it is sold by the pound I can't afford it!


They aren't priced out of reach, especially if you can snag a showroom or demo model. These normally have a dozen or so hours of runtime. 

They have one 20-M demo, 20x40 (2-7/16” Bore) for $12,460

http://www.lionlathes.com/lathes/spec20m.html

http://www.machineryjournal.com/MJ PDF Web/Intl Machinery APR.pdf

http://www.machineryjournal.com/MJ PDF WebIntl Machinery APR.pdf


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## wquiles (Apr 23, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> Barry,
> 
> You need this, I want pictures when you get it!
> 
> http://www.lionlathes.com/mills/index.html



That one makes my knee mill feel "not worthy" 

Will


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## Mirage_Man (Apr 23, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> You may also want to look at the 16x40 Lion, made in Eastern Europe. They'll always negotiate on the price, and probably more so today as sales everywhere are slow.
> 
> http://www.lionlathes.com/lathes/16m.html
> 
> http://www.lionlathes.com/lathes/spec16m.html



oooh! power feed on the tail stock, sweet!


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## precisionworks (Apr 23, 2009)

> That one makes my knee mill feel "not worthy"


With a 50 taper spindle, and 12.5 hp, that's a serious mill


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## StrikerDown (Apr 23, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> No, but they're really nice on the phone:thumbsup:
> 
> They aren't priced out of reach, especially if you can snag a showroom or demo model. These normally have a dozen or so hours of runtime.
> 
> ...


 
Even if the 16X40 is half that it's out of my $ range! I am really streaching to get into the PM13/14 40 with DRO, even at the sale price it's sucking up a grand more than I really wanted to spend (PM 1236 w/o DRO). Plus it is over 2.5 times the weight to push around next time I move.

Perhaps not out of reach, but if I spend that much I will be expected to drive it to work!

I'm calling anyway cause ya never know... 



Mirage_Man said:


> oooh! power feed on the tail stock, sweet!


 
Exactly! I just know it's expensive!


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## precisionworks (Apr 23, 2009)

> I'm calling anyway cause ya never know...


I'm just guessing, but they might take $10k in today's market:thumbsup:


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## StrikerDown (Apr 23, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> I'm just guessing, but they might take $10k in today's market:thumbsup:


 
Pound for pound that would be about 2.5 times the cost also!


Will, Hey Will, Tell me again how much you like you PM.


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## Mirage_Man (Apr 23, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> Pound for pound that would be about 2.5 times the cost also!
> 
> 
> Will, Hey Will, Tell me again how much you like you PM.



I don't know about Will but I like my PM very much :twothumbs .


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## wquiles (Apr 23, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> Will, Hey Will, Tell me again how much you like you PM.



I "really" like my PM machine 

Today I used my lathe again for the first time since I got the Bison Chuck cleaned/adjusted/dialed-in, and I started cutting into a 2" dia steel rod (for the steel block for my Yuasa RT). This was the first time I cut steel in my lathe, and with the CNMG 4xx insert, it was just plain smooth, with a neat shower of steel shavings. It was so easy, like a hot knife cutting butter :devil:

Will


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## StrikerDown (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks guys... That was a close one!

Both your lathes look great to me!


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## StrikerDown (Apr 24, 2009)

Hahahahahaha!

According to Johnny the 16M (16" X 40") list$ for a cool $18,500.00
BUT, for a limited time a first time buyer can get it for 20% off freight pre paid! or only $14,800.00 plus tax to my door!

No 16M demo so a cheaper way would be the 20M mentioned above!

It even comes with a taper attachment! Not to mention the usual items the larger Chinese machines come with.

It might be an engine lathe but this engine won't get me to work to pay for it!

On the bright side, Johnny seems like a very personable gent!


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## SafetyBob (Apr 24, 2009)

If you win the lottery that Lion stuff would be really nice to buy!! Which reminds me I should consider getting a couple of tickets for this weekends drawing.

I am surprised that not one of you mentioned anything about the power requirements of the Lion lathe. I saw the 12.5hp and 3 phase and went, I don't think my little 3 phase setup in the garage could handle that!!

Oh, I'm afraid the whole end of my garage foundation would sink into the earth with at HUGE mill sitting in there too. Doubt there would be any vibration issues with that thing milling alumimum parts for flashlights. 

Barry was right.....$10,000 for that lathe would be a steal, $14,000 is probably very fair especially with freight prepaid. Sure makes that PM price look pretty good!!

Which brings me to this point, have you exhausted all your local tool dealers/stealers to see if they were willing to make some quick cash flow?


Bob E.


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## precisionworks (Apr 24, 2009)

> I saw the 12.5hp and 3 phase and went, I don't think my little 3 phase setup in the garage could handle that!!


There's a brand new Phase-A-Matic R-25 sitting in my garage that would power that lathe, plus most of the other machines you could fit in a commercial shop. For just $2199 OBO it will be yours:thumbsup:


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## StrikerDown (Apr 25, 2009)

SafetyBob said:


> If you win the lottery that Lion stuff would be really nice to buy!! Which reminds me I should consider getting a couple of tickets for this weekends drawing.
> 
> I am surprised that not one of you mentioned anything about the power requirements of the Lion lathe. I saw the 12.5hp and 3 phase and went, I don't think my little 3 phase setup in the garage could handle that!!
> 
> ...


 
I didn't really look that close, anything with that much cast iron in it won't fly in my garage or budget!

I hadn't thought too much about used stuff, just crap in Craigs list, I'll check the yellow pages for machinery sales.

I got a machine rag the other day with a 14X40 lathe advertised for $2,499. Pics looked good but it was already sold.



precisionworks said:


> There's a brand new Phase-A-Matic R-25 sitting in my garage that would power that lathe, plus most of the other machines you could fit in a commercial shop. For just $2199 OBO it will be yours:thumbsup:


 
When you first started on the "Phase-A-Matic in my garage" I thought you were about to order a Lion!


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## StrikerDown (Apr 29, 2009)

Finally! Matt got back to me today. There is a reason I get anxious when I decide to buy something, While waiting this past 9 days they sold out the PM1340's they had! That's OK, I decided on the 1440 w/DRO and 5c collet closer.

The way he is going through the machinery who would think we are in a recession!

Anyway the cashiers check should be in his hot little hands on Friday... Back in waiting mode :devil:


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## Mirage_Man (Apr 29, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> Finally! Matt got back to me today. There is a reason I get anxious when I decide to buy something, While waiting this past 9 days they sold out the PM1340's they had! That's OK, I decided on the 1440 w/DRO and 5c collet closer.
> 
> The way he is going through the machinery who would think we are in a recession!
> 
> Anyway the cashiers check should be in his hot little hands on Friday... Back in waiting mode :devil:



Congrats Dude! Now hold on to your wallet. You gots lots of tooling to buy for it. :naughty:


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## wquiles (Apr 29, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> Finally! Matt got back to me today. There is a reason I get anxious when I decide to buy something, While waiting this past 9 days they sold out the PM1340's they had! That's OK, I decided on the 1440 w/DRO and 5c collet closer.
> 
> The way he is going through the machinery who would think we are in a recession!
> 
> Anyway the cashiers check should be in his hot little hands on Friday... Back in waiting mode :devil:



Congrats on the lathe mate! Again, that is the same lathe/DRO I should have gotten myself 

Will


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