# Cree XR-E in Fenix L1/2T (vs. UWAJ, stock)



## UnknownVT (Nov 18, 2006)

Part 1 -

I have to hand a *Cree XE-E* mod in a Fenix L1/2T head with McR-18 reflector to review (Very Important note - this is *NOT* available for purchase, I know how much work and modification is involved to get a Cree XR-E to fit in a L1/2T head with proper heat sinking, some pretty clever stuff going on.....).

I am very, very grateful to 4sevens (http://Fenix-store.com) for his generosity for the loan of this, along with a UWAJ LuxIII mod L1/2T head also with McR-18 reflector, CR123 bodies and spare L1T and L2T bodies.

So 3 different L1/2T heads with 3 different bodies - a combination of 9 flashlights - since the L1/2T heads are capable of 2 levels - that's 18 combinations - and that's not even counting use of different battery types.... 
enough with the excuses!






_Simply because of the verastility of the L1T/L2T head - this Cree XR-E mod can be seen as possibly a "preview" of the *Fenix P1D-CE* (when using CR123A and RCR123), *Fenix L1D-CE* (when using 1x AA alkaline and NiMH), and possibly the future "*L2D-CE*"(?) (when using 2x AA alkaline and NiMH)._
_Please see the Index at the bottom of this post for the continuing parts of this comparison review._

In this part of the review I am going to look at what I consider driving the Cree XR-E to its potential - ie: using a 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable RCR123 battery - so that means the L1/2T heads are on CR123 bodies.

Size -





Heads -




notice the orange-peel/reticulated reflectors in the Cree XR-E and UWAJ mods - also that the central hole had to be enlarged to accomodate the Cree.

Quick word about the CR123 bodies for the Fenix "T"-series - the current ones would fit all the primary CR123A I tried, although some seemed snug. With 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable RCR123 - I found I had some Unprotected that were too fat to fit, and suspected that Protect RCR123 would probably be too fat to fit. 

This seems to have been addressed by a new Mk 2 sample/prototype 4sevens loaned me - it is just preceptibly thinnner walled (even more precision) and will take a (fatter) Battery Station Protected RCR123 - which defintitely will not fit the earlier version.

_(EDIT: Important note - I have been told this "Mk.2" body is *NOT* available for purchase - and only 1 or 2 were made)_









OK, ok - what's the Cree XR-E like?

Well hopefully you remember what I thought of the L1T on a 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeble?

Fenix L1T on 3.7V Li-Ion - Whoa! 

I thought it was spectacularly bright......

Well this is the L1T on a Cree XR-E 
vs. Stock L1/2T both on 3.7V Li-Ion on High







holy cr*p! that is bright compared to what I used to consider "spectacular"!

How about a great LuxIII like a U-bin?
vs. UWAJ (also McR-18 reflector) both on 3.7V Li-Ion on High







er - the Cree is definitely brighter.

But is the U-bin brighter than the stock T-bin?
you betcha! both on 3.7V Li-Ion on High -








So all this is pretty seriously bright company -

How about Cree on Li-Ion vs. stock lights on alkalines?

vs. Fenix L1T on High, alkaline -







this Fenix L1T is my at home EDC using a NiMH battery - it is _STOMPED_ by the Cree on Li-Ion.... actually I would have been disappointed if it wasn't.

vs. Fenix L2T on High, alkalines -







yes, on 2AA alkalines the stock T-bin does fair a bit better - but bascially it is still spanked by the Cree on Li-Ion......

I know I am going to have to do more comparisons with different batteries and different bodies - 
but I think this is enough for now - 

Hopefully I have managed to show some of the potential of the Cree XR-E - 
and that the L1/2T makes a great host for it.......

_EDIT to ADD_ -
I thought I should use a "*control"/reference* flashlight for comparison of all these combinations. I've chosen the popular Fenix P1 using a regular primary CR123A (NON-rechargeable) - 
hopefully this gives a consistent output so I can compare this with the variations of battery combination of this Cree XR-E mod L1/2T -

*Control Reference comparison -*
vs. Fenix P1 on Primary CR123A







The Cree XR-E on 3.7V Li-Ion is obviously brighter than the Fenix P1 on non-rechargeable Primary CR123A - this is not meant to be a direct comparison with the Fenix P1 but a "Control" comparison.

_EDIT to ADD -_

Current draw readings from *Cree XR-E* mod L1/2T head-
......... 750mAh ... 800mAh ... Batt Sta
......... Unprot ..... Unprot .... Protected
High ... 0.59A ...... 0.58A ..... 0.58A
Low ... 0.40A ...... 0.40A ..... 0.42A

these are similar but perhaps a shade lower than the current readings from the stock Fenix L1T on 3.7V Li-Ion Unprotected 14500 rechargeable.

Current draw readings from *Stock* Fenix L1T head using same RCR123 batteries -
......... 750mAh ... 800mAh ... Batt Sta
......... Unprot ..... Unprot .... Protected
High ... 0.48A ...... 0.50A ..... 0.50A
Low ... 0.46A ...... 0.40A ..... 0.42A

Ah! I think I got it..... the higher current draw readings from the Cree here are because the LEDs in both cases on High are basically in direct-drive - 
I think the Cree may have a lower Vf - so when presented with the same source, the voltage difference is bigger - hence the more power (therefore current) it can draw. 
Whereas on the Low mode the circuit may contribute to the current limiting.... 
however I am at a loss to explain that high reading on the Low setting for the stock L1T using the 750mAh Unprotected RCR123......

*INDEX* _to continuing parts of this comparison review_ -

Part 2 - using 1x NiMH AA battery (L1D-CE preview?) - Post #*15* 
Part 3 - using the common 1x Alkaline AA (L1D-CE preview?) - Post #*23*
Part 4 - using Primary CR123A (3.0V Non-rechargeable) lithium - post #*42* 
Part 5 - using 2x AA alkaline ("L2D-CE" preview?) - post #*54* 
Part 6 - using 2x AA NiMH ("L2D-CE" preview?) - post #*55*

Outdoors beamshots and direct comparison with P1D-CE - post #*50* 
Indoors beamshots compared with P1D-CE - post #*51*


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## Edwood (Nov 18, 2006)

You got a protected RCR123 to fit in the MK2 CR123 body?

I could not get my protected RCR123 (not Battery Station) to fit. Not by a long shot.

-Ed


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## sflate (Nov 18, 2006)

Do you happen to know the bin and/or tint of the Cree?


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## UnknownVT (Nov 18, 2006)

*Edwood *wrote: _"You got a protected RCR123 to fit in the MK2 CR123 body?_
_I could not get my protected RCR123 (not Battery Station) to fit. Not by a long shot."_

Just for clarity - I am only talking about the CR123 bodies for the "T"-series - ie: they have bare alumimum threads at the head. 

(Note: The "original" CR123 body for the L2P does not have bare threads and does not work properly with the L1/2T)

So what I call Mk.2 is a new (not in production & _*NOT*_ for purchase - only 1 or 2 were made) CR123 body with even thinner walls than the "T"-series CR123 body with bare threads, and as you see in the photo, will fit the Battery Station Protected RCR123 - whereas the very slightly earlier production sample also for the "T"-series (with bare threads) will NOT fit - like yours - by "a long shot".

Sorry to sound wordy and pedantic - 
but I want to be sure not to confuse by my use of "Mk.2"


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## chevrofreak (Nov 18, 2006)

He sent me an XR-E McR18 modded LxT head as well, and the output numbers I get from my home built integrating sphere are:

Fenix LxT XR-E - CR123a - high 1203 (estimated 85.93 lumens)
Fenix LxT XR-E - CR123a - low 212 (estimated 15.14 lumens)
Fenix LxT XR-E - 800mAh unprotected RCR123a - high 1947 (estimated 139.07 lumens)

stock was 

Fenix LxT - CR123a - high 630 (estimated 45 lumens)
Fenix LxT - CR123a - low 132 (estimated 9.43 lumens)
Fenix LxT - 800mAh unprotected RCR123a - high 1050 (estimated 75 lumens)


The beam is surprisingly nearly perfect considering that it is from a reflector intended for a Luxeon. I feel like a little schoolboy with a crush, and her name is XR-E.


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## NewBie (Nov 18, 2006)

Thanks for the comparision information chevrofreak!


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## cheapo (Nov 18, 2006)

ok, that is awsome! 140 lumens, 2 stages, clicky... someone must make it.

-David


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## Erasmus (Nov 18, 2006)

Nice mod! Can you explain how you have modified the McR?


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## UnknownVT (Nov 18, 2006)

*sflate* wrote: _"Do you happen to know the bin and/or tint of the Cree?"_

I had to ask -

It's a *P3 WC*


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## Concept (Nov 18, 2006)

It should not be too far away for the LXD CE you would think now that the P1D CE has hit the market.


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## Ikonomi (Nov 19, 2006)

So how does the FeniXR-E do on standard AAs? Like NiMH? Awesome comparison. 

I think this is the second throwy Cree I have seen (not counting NewBie's aspherical lens ).


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## UnknownVT (Nov 19, 2006)

*Ikonomi* wrote: _"So how does the FeniXR-E do on standard AAs? Like NiMH?"_

Are you reading my mind - 
or writing my script? 

The opening post is only Part 1 of this review -
my next comparison is going to be a single AA NiMH - 
ie: going from the extreme highest end of 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 
(where the circuit is effectively by-passed and the light is in direct-drive) 
to the extreme lowest commonly available voltage of a single AA NiMH at 1.2V.

So please stay tuned.......


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## Badbeams3 (Nov 19, 2006)

Still tuned...can`t wait to see what she does with a single AA 1.2 volt rechargable batt.


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## BentHeadTX (Nov 19, 2006)

Badbeams said:


> Still tuned...can`t wait to see what she does with a single AA 1.2 volt rechargable batt.



Same here, I want to see what a Cree equipped L1T will do. If (when) Fenix rolls out the Cree version, we will all know how it performs with NiMH. Thanks! :rock:


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## UnknownVT (Nov 19, 2006)

Part 2 -

on 1x *NiMH* AA rechargeable battery -

vs. Stock Fenix L1T both on 1x NiMH AA, High







er-hum, the Cree XR-E is definitely brighter even when driven by the lowest (commonly available) extreme of a single NiMH AA at a nominal 1.2V - this is pretty impressive (....that's because I know something at this point, that you don't yet



)

vs. UWAJ mod L1/2T both on NiMH AA, High







the Cree XR-E is noticably brighter - even when compared to possibly the "best" LuxIII for this application and on the lowest end of a driving source this Cree XR-E struts its stuff.

*Control Reference Comparison -*
Cree XR-E L1T with 1x NiMH AA vs. Fenix P1 on primary CR123A







I would say that this is pretty amazing 
the Cree XR-E mod L1T on a single NiMH AA @ 1.2V is brighter than a Fenix P1 on a Primary Lithium CR123A

I think people _should_ be getting excited about a possible 1AA Fenix using a Cree XR-E

_EDIT to ADD_ -
Comparison at *Low level* - 

vs. Stock Fenix L1T both on 1x NiMH AA, Low







even when both are on Low the Cree is still noticably brighter - 
this may not be such a good thing - as most people would like a dimmer low.
However, bear in mind this L1/2T circuit was not designed for a Cree XR-E - 
and there are two ways of looking at this - 
either we get pretty good brightness for about 10 hours of runtime (like the stock version) on low - 
or a properly designed circuit would give us a lower output at even longer runtime - 
think about the region of *~20 hours* for a reasonable low output level at 1/2 this brightness?......

vs. UWAJ mod L1/2T both on 1x NiMH AA, Low -







Cree is brighter even on this low level compared to the current "best" LuxIII a U-bin.

*Control Reference Comparison -*
Cree XR-E L1T with 1x NiMH AA on Low vs. Fenix P1 on primary CR123A







obviously noty as bright on Low - but it is not left that far behind a Fenix P1 on primary lithium CR123A - that's pretty amazing considering at this "low" level the Cree mod L1T should be getting about ~10 hours regulated runtime......


_EDIT to ADD -_
Current draw readings -
*Cree XR-E* mod L1/2T head on 1x NiMH AA battery
High ... 0.79A
Low .... 0.25A

compared to *Stock* L1T using the same NiMH battery
High ... 0.79A
Low .... 0.24A

Close enough to be "identical" - this is so because the current draw from the battery is determined by the circuit.


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## Badbeams3 (Nov 19, 2006)

Whoowh, now that what I want! Thanks for the pic`s and time! Wow!


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## AlexGT (Nov 19, 2006)

Now if you would post the instructions on what you did for the brave souls who might wanna try it too?

Thanks
AlexGT


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## UnknownVT (Nov 19, 2006)

*AlexGT* wrote: _"Now if you would post the instructions on what you did for the brave souls who might wanna try it too?"_

I did _NOTHING _ 

...as stated in my first post - this is a _loaner_.

So I did _NOT_ do the mod - 
although I do have some idea of how much work went into it.

The Cree XR-E is not a simple direct replacement fit to a Luxeon, so some "surgery" is required to fit.

As can be seen in the photo of the heads - the reflector (McR-18 - designed for the Luxeon) has to have its hole widened to fit the Cree.

I know that some heat sinking mod had to be done also.

Sorry I can't give any more details, as I just don't know.


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## tazambo (Nov 19, 2006)

Great beam shots, UnknownVT.

I want an LxT head with cree and a RCR123 body.
I prefer a clickie over a twistie.

I don't need the fancy stuff in the P1D, just 2 levels and a clickie.
This needs to be a stock light, none of this having to spend an extra $15-20 for the 123 body. But thanks for building it, Nekomane.

Come on fenix.


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## EngrPaul (Nov 19, 2006)

Are the POST #15 beamshots accurate for the L1P-XRE mod that became available at Fenix-Store today?


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## UnknownVT (Nov 20, 2006)

*EngrPaul* wrote: _"Are the POST #15 beamshots accurate for the L1P-XRE mod that became available at Fenix-Store today?"_

Sorry - don't know.
I don't have a Cree mod'd L1P to compare.

By speculation/guessing - they may be similar - but this is a _GUESS_ only.

The L1P circuit for a R-bin 1watt Lux1 may actually be closer for a Cree XR-E -since both LEDs are rated for 350mA current.

However beware the L1P was only spec'd for voltage range of 0.9~1.7V - so a 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable is way too high......

*Note:* I have editted to add the current draw readings for the respective battery types in the opening Post #*1*, and Post #*15*


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## AlexGT (Nov 20, 2006)

Do you think the CREE led might work with a L2P? I am so tempted to try to do the mod.

AlexGT


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## UnknownVT (Nov 20, 2006)

Part 3 -

Using the most "obvious" battery - the common *1x Alkaline AA -*

vs. Stock Fenix L1T both using 1x Alkaline AA both on High -








not surprisingly (like the NiMH results in Post #*15*) - the Cree is noticably brighter than the stock L1T with both on High.

vs. Stock Fenix L1T both using 1x Alkaline AA both on Low -







even when both are on Low the Cree is still noticably brighter - 
this may not be such a good thing - as most people would like a dimmer low.
However, bear in mind this L1/2T circuit was not designed for a Cree XR-E - 
and there are two ways of looking at this - 
either we get pretty good brightness for about 10 hours of runtime (like the stock version) on low - 
or a properly designed circuit would give us a lower output at even longer runtime - 
think about the region of *~20 hours* for a reasonable low output level like 1/2 this brightness?......

vs. UWAJ mod L1T both on 1x Alkaline AA both on High -







Remember a U-bin is about as good as a LuxIII can get currently - and the Cree is definitely brighter.

vs. UWAJ mod L1T both on 1x Alkaline AA both on Low -







Again the Cree even on low is noticably brighter - see comments above for the comparison with the stock on Low.

*Control Reference Comparison -*
Cree XR-E L1T with 1x Alkaline AA on High vs. Fenix P1 on primary CR123A







the Cree XR-E even on a humble common 1x AA alkaline is actually about the same - or just brighter than a Fenix P1 on a primary lithium CR123A - I think this is pretty amazing......

Cree XR-E L1T with 1x Alkaline AA on Low vs. Fenix P1 on primary CR123A







not surprisingly the Low is not as bright - but even the low seems not that distant from the Fenix P1 on a primary lithium CR123A - 
since this is the standard L1T circuit - that's about ~10 hours regulated runtime at this level....... so a properly designed circuit could give us hopefully over ~20 hours runtime at a reasonable low level no problems......

Thinking of it with a Cree XR-E to be truly useful one should think in terms of 3 stages - High like as tested, Medium like the current "Low" with about ~10 hours regulated runtime, and a real Low regulated at about 1/2 the brightness with runtime in excess of ~20 hours......

Current Draw readings on 1x Alkaline AA -

Cree XT-E in L1/2T head -
High = 0.80A
Low = 0.22A

stock L1T
High = 0.80A
Low = 0.25A

close enough to be "identical" - so runtimes are probably going to be similar to the stock L1T.


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## UnknownVT (Nov 21, 2006)

*AlexGT* wrote: _"Do you think the CREE led might work with a L2P? I am so tempted to try to do the mod."_

I would think yes.

Since 4sevens is selling a L1P mod'd with Cree XR-E - I would think/guess the L2P would even be better - 
with maybe the possibility of being able to handle 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable battery (but please double check before doing so) - 
and definitely can use the CR123 body with Primary CR123 lithium.

Please do let us know how you get on and what you have to do.....

BTW - 2x AA is the next on the agenda in this continuing comparison review - 
I'll probably eventually do both - 
but should I use 2x AA NiMH, or alkalines first?


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## BentHeadTX (Nov 21, 2006)

I wonder if the 5 ohm resistor in the tailcap switch trick works with the L1T? Click in the resistor for a much lower low, click it back out for "medium" (low) and high is high. Doing the tailcap mod would make it a twistie but it might work for the lowest of the low fans out there.


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## Calina (Nov 21, 2006)

As the brigtness of LEDs keeps increasing we will need more and more levels on our lights to play with. The problem is that once you go over 3 or 4 levels the twisting operation to change levels can become cumbersome. A new approach will have to be designed, like selecting the levels with a ring or having 3 levels only but programmable by the user.


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## magmini from italy (Nov 22, 2006)

how long do place to hold turned on the L1T with a 3.7 v before overheat him?


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## UnknownVT (Nov 22, 2006)

*magmini from italy* wrote: _"how long do place to hold turned on the L1T with a 3.7 v before overheat him?"_

That's a good question... and the answer is I don't know.

I think on 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable the Cree XR-E may be over the spec typical ratings - but still well under the maximums.

Looking at the Cree spec sheet they state the max forward current is 700mA and the typical Vf at 700mA is 3.75V (max Vf @ 350mA is 3.9V) - 
If the 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable is direct driving the Cree - then there is 3.7V (nominal) at 580-590mA which is below the Max - but quite a bit above the "typical" 350mA.

The Cree modified head did get warm during my beamshots - but not what I would call noticably hot - it did not feel any hotter than the T- or U-bin heads - but that was just my impression - however I definitely would have noticed if the head got "hot".

So there is a danger of overheating even though the using a 3.7V Li-Ion with the Cree is still well within the maximum specs.

I know that considerable effort (both in reasearch and work) has gone into getting the Cree well heat-sinked for this particular mod, and this may well be an important point for anyone considering a Cree mod and wants to drive it with 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable.


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## magmini from italy (Nov 22, 2006)

but a 3.7 li ion (14500 in my case) hardly loaded it makes to measure 4.2 v of peak: those are not enough to burn the circuit in few minutes?


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## UnknownVT (Nov 22, 2006)

*magmini* *from italy* wrote: _"but a 3.7 li ion (14500 in my case) hardly loaded it makes to measure 4.2 v of peak: those are not enough to burn the circuit in few minutes?"_

Not sure....

But the L1T/L2T circuit is designed to handle up to +4V.

I know that some Li-Ion cells freshly off the charger can read as high as 4.2V
(this depends on the charger - mine tend to be about 4.09V max) - but this is fairly short - 
and once they are under load they do drop to close to their "nominal" voltage of 3.7 or 3.6V.

The 3 different 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable RCR123 I used did not appear to distress the Cree L1T - 
and the protected and Unprotected 14500 Li-Ion rechargeable I used in the stock L1T also did not seem to distress the stock L1T LED - see -

Fenix L1T on 3.7V Li-Ion - Whoa! 

However you still do this all at your own risk - 
if you want to be on the safe side don't use the Li-Ion fresh off the charger - 
just use the Li-Ion battery for a bit before putting it in the flashlight - 
afterall they are rated at 3.7 or 3.6V and not 4.2V.....


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## mkphc (Nov 23, 2006)

Sorry for the dumb question-

What's it going to take to have a P1D Cree work w/a protected 123?

i'm new to all these mods so please forgive me being green

but I'm really interested in a single 123 size 100 lumen that'll work w/a rechargeable and this seems to be the ticket!

remember Kermit said "it's not easy being green"
Thanks,
Mike


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## EngrPaul (Nov 23, 2006)

Bring on the L1TD-CE, I'm ready for it!


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## boonsht (Nov 23, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> Bring on the L1TD-CE, I'm ready for it!



I'd be all over that as well


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## ackbar (Nov 23, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> Bring on the L1TD-CE, I'm ready for it!



+1


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## CodeOfLight (Nov 23, 2006)

I HAVE an L1/2 T with a cree in it.


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## ackbar (Nov 24, 2006)

CodeOfLight said:


> I HAVE an L1/2 T with a cree in it.



Please allow me to be the first to say it....






I HATE YOU


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## UnknownVT (Nov 24, 2006)

*mkphc* wrote: _"What's it going to take to have a P1D Cree work w/a protected 123?"_

Hopefully nothing......
Hopefully the P1D circuit will work in a similar way to most step-up and regulating circuits for single CR123 - 
that is, when the input voltage (ie: battery) exceeds the intended output voltage (usually set to the Vf of the LED) - the circuit is by-passed - so in effect the light is directly driven by the 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable RCR123 battery.......

_EDIT to ADD - _I don't have to be hopeful on this - 
according to 4sevens in this thread (Q&A section of the opening post) -

New Fenix Digital Series! P1D and P1D CE with Cree XR-E !!

QUOTE:
_Q: Will P1D support RCR123a
A: Yes, it will work however, the three levels will not be regulated. Exact
behavior is yet to be reported._
UNQUOTE_

_===================== 
The hopefully not too distant "L1D-CE" - is what this Cree XR-E mod in the L1/2T head is closest to, and this review is kind of "previewing" what a future L1D-CE is going to be like in performance for the high and medium levels.......

The beauty of the Cree XR-E mod in the L1T/L2T head is that it will accept a 1x AA, 2x AA and the Nekomane CR123 bodies - which makes it a VERY versatile and high performing light - since the L1/2T circuit coupled with the Cree XR-E can be used with 3.7V Li-Ion batteries - both the 14500 (AA size) or the RCR123....... 

So hopefully the yet to be announced L1D-CE will follow the same versatility but with better regulation circuitry, therefore good runtimes for the brightness levels.....

I don't think things can get much better than that - for now......

As you see I used "hopefully" a lot in this post - 

so it's a hopeful post


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## LowTEC (Nov 24, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> Bring on the L1TD-CE, I'm ready for it!



And they will be charging you 75+ bucks for one since you are so "ready" for it :lolsign:


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## mkphc (Nov 24, 2006)

Thanks! I get it now


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## yekim (Nov 29, 2006)

do you have any luxV lights to compare the cree light to ?


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## UnknownVT (Nov 30, 2006)

*yekim* wrote: "_do you have any luxV lights to compare the cree light to ?"_

Sorry, no, I don't -

However you might want to look at Post #*5* (link) in this thread where chevofreak estimated the Cree on 3.7V Li-Ion was almost 140lumens, and on primary CR123A was about 86lumens.

The beauty of the Cree is not just the high brightness level(s) achieved but they are at lower power consumption levels. 
Cree's flux/brightness levels are rated at 350mA - which is the same as the ratings for 1watt Lux1.......


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## UnknownVT (Dec 4, 2006)

Part 4 -

On Primary CR123A (3.0V Non-rechargeable) lithium.
This means the L1T/L2T heads are on the Nekomane CR123 bodies for the L1T/L2T.

This is probably the closest "preview" for the soon to be arriving Fenix P1D-CE.

Comparisons on High using Primary CR123A

vs. stock Fenix L1T both on Primary CR123A, both on High








Not surprisingly, the Cree is noticably brighter.

vs. UWAJ mod L1/2T both on Primary CR123A, both on High







for now the UWAJ is about as good as one can get with a LuxIII - and the Cree is definitely and noticably brighter.

*Control Reference* comparison

Cree on High vs. Fenix P1 both on primary CR123A







again, not surprisingly - the Cree is noticably brighter.

Comparisons on Low -

vs. stock Fenix L1T both on Primary CR123A, both on Low







seems like the Cree is still proportionally brighter than the stock when both on Low (as previous results seems to show too) - this might not be such a "good thing" since people normally look at a dimmer low level - this is probably at about a typical 1watt LuxI like the L1P on alkaline.


vs. UWAJ mod L1/2T both on Primary CR123A, both on Low







follows the same pattern as previously - the Cree on low is brighter than the UWAJ also on low - see previous comments regarding brighter "low" levels.

*Control Reference* comparison

Cree on Low vs. Fenix P1 both on primary CR123A







Cree on Low is not as bright as the P1 - but it is not that far behind.....


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## x2x3x2 (Dec 4, 2006)

try to cut down the exposure a bit, those shots are great to compare sidespill but spots are totally blown out.. cant tell which is brighter.

great job tho


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## UnknownVT (Dec 4, 2006)

*x2x3x2* wrote: _"try to cut down the exposure a bit, those shots are great to compare sidespill but spots are totally blown out.. cant tell which is brighter."_

Thanks for the advice.....

That is why there are *TWO* beamshots in each comparison set.

The first is the "optimized" exposure to compare the characteristics of the beams.

The second marked "*-2 Stops Underexposed*" on the photos *- *should be closer to what you are asking for? Which to my eyes show the differences in brightness.


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## woodasptim (Dec 11, 2006)

I'm getting a Millermods L1p modded with a Cree XR-E. I know the driver can handle being run at 3volts, Any idea if the led can handle it? I'm thinking about trying it with a 3volt lithium primary for some maximum brightness. oo:


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## UnknownVT (Dec 12, 2006)

*woodaspti* wrote: _"]I'm getting a Millermods L1p modded with a Cree XR-E. I know the driver can handle being run at 3volts, Any idea if the led can handle it? I'm thinking about trying it with a 3volt lithium primary for some maximum brightness.



"_

This is the crop from the Cree XR-E pdf Data Sheet


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## woodasptim (Dec 12, 2006)

So the cree can run at 700ma at 3.75v... When the Millermods board is driven with a 3.0v doesn't it put out like 1200ma at 3.25v? I've been reading everything I can find and those are the numbers that I come up with.....but I've been wrong before. How do you figure total wattage? I'm kinda new to all of this. And I definitely appreciate any help I can get.


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## BentHeadTX (Dec 12, 2006)

Total wattage is figured by multipying voltage (3.75) times amps (1.2) equals 4.5 watts. Considering that Crees generally have a low forward voltage, the constant power MillerMods regulator will overdrive the hell out of the Cree. 

The solution is to get a L1P body and run the Cree at 1.7 watts (around 530mA) on a single AA NiMH cell. This will give you over 100 lumens at the LED in a much smaller size. My MM L1P runs a UWAJ LuxeonIII at 1.7 watts and I hope to send it back in for a Q2 or Q3 Cree upgrade.


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## woodasptim (Dec 12, 2006)

BentHeadTX said:


> the constant power MillerMods regulator will overdrive the hell out of the Cree.


My thinking exactly, just looking for confirmation from another source. Thanks for the reply. 



BentHeadTX said:


> The solution is to get a L1P body and run the Cree at 1.7 watts (around 530mA) on a single AA NiMH cell. This will give you over 100 lumens at the LED in a much smaller size.


That's what I ordered. Millermods L1p modded with a Cree XR-E. Thanks to David at Fenix-Store.com for doing the mod for me. You rock.

I'll post beam shots as soon as it comes in.


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## UnknownVT (Dec 12, 2006)

Some outdoors beamshots - please see -

"Practical" Beamshots? pt.2 (outdoors) 
for more details

Cree XR-E L1T/L2T RCR123 High ................................................ Fenix P1D-CE also on RCR123 and on High







it would appear as if the new Fenix P1D-CE outdoes this Cree XR-E mod L1T/L2T with RCR123 on High - 

It did not seem that way on the standard comparison beamshots - if anything, this Cree XR-E mod L1T may have been brighter.......

Fenix P1D-CE RCR123 on High vs. Cree XR-E L1T/L2T RCR123 High (note the P1D-CE is on the left)








I've just done the indoors Stairways shots and will post these comparisons, next ..soon....


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## UnknownVT (Dec 13, 2006)

*Indoors Stairway Beamshots* - 
please see -

"Practical" Beamshots?

for more details and the same beamshots with many other lights.

Cree XR-E L1T/L2T RCR123 High .......................... Fenix P1D-CE RCR123 High







These are very comparable - if anything the Cree XR-E mod L1T/L2T might just have the edge in overall output/smoothness. But the P1D-CE has a more intense hotpsot - acoounting for its much better performance at a distance outdoors.....

Cree XR-E L1T 1x NiMH AA ................................. Nuwai Q3 with RCR123 







This shot is very telling - that's the Cree XR-E in a L1T head driven by a single NiMH AA battery 
vs. what was previously a spectacularly bright light - the Nuwa Q3 on 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable RCR123.


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## woodasptim (Dec 26, 2006)

I finally got around to doing those beamshots of the MM L1P XRE
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1755335&postcount=21


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## brightnorm (Dec 28, 2006)

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1100383#post1100383


Calina said:


> As the brigtness of LEDs keeps increasing we will need more and more levels on our lights to play with. The problem is that once you go over 3 or 4 levels the twisting operation to change levels can become cumbersome. A new approach will have to be designed, like selecting the levels with a ring or having 3 levels only but programmable by the user.


The SPY005 permits instant access to 6 levels; by far the best multi-level solution I've seen.

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1100383#post1100383

Brightnorm


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## UnknownVT (Jan 11, 2007)

*Part 5 -*

*2x AA Alkaline*

may be a "preview" of what a "L2D-CE" might be like?

on High setting

vs. stock Fenix L2T 








vs. UWAJ mod Fenix L2T








*Control Reference comparison* -
vs. Fenix P1 (primary CR123A) 








In all 3 cases the Cree XR-E mod L2T is definitely and easily brighter.
and if looking carefully at the underexposed shots one can just see the controversial dark ring/halo - and remember this mod is using a orange-peel stippled reflector...... so I would guess the dark halo is not going away any time soon and may be a characteristic of the Cree XR-E LED......

on Low -

vs. stock Fenix L2T 








vs. UWAJ mod Fenix L2T








again the Cree is brighter than the stock L1T and even probably what can be considered best of breed LuxIII UWAJ mod L2T.......

*Control Reference comparison* -
vs. Fenix P1 (primary CR123A) 







this is pretty impressive - the Low level on this Cree L2T is almost as bright as the Fenix P1 on primary CR123A........


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## UnknownVT (Jan 15, 2007)

*Part 6 -*

*2x AA NiMH*

High setting -

vs. stock Fenix L2T 








vs. UWAJ mod Fenix L2T








*Control Reference comparison* -
vs. Fenix P1 (primary CR123A) 







The Cree XR-E mod in L2T is easily and noticably brighter than the LuxIII powered by 2x AA NiMH or even a CR123A.

on Low -

vs. stock Fenix L2T








vs. UWAJ mod Fenix L2T








*Control Reference comparison* -
vs. Fenix P1 (primary CR123A) 







again on 2x AA NiMH the Cree even on Low seems in the same ballpark as the P1 on primary CR123A - this may not be quite desirable for a "Low" level - but shows how bright these Cree XR-E's are.....

So the "Low" with this Cree is my normal mode - switching over to High only when I need extra brightness 
or want to impress



....


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## WildChild (Jan 16, 2007)

Is there any thread that gives details about how to mod Fenixes to Cree? I have a L2P that want much to be modded with a Cree that should arrive soon!  I just want to know what kind of modifications I should expect!


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## WildChild (Jan 16, 2007)

double post... sorry!


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## UnknownVT (Jan 16, 2007)

*WildChild* wrote: _"Is there any thread that gives details about how to mod Fenixes to Cree? I have a L2P that want much to be modded with a Cree that should arrive soon!



I just want to know what kind of modifications I should expect!"_

Although I didn't do this mod - 
I have some idea that modification/"surgery" is required on both the LED (rounding of the base) and the reflector (truncating, and enlarging the hole). Also some means of heat-sinking is needed - so the Cree-XR-E is not a simple direct replacement for the Luxeon in the L2P.

This thread by ViReN -

Presenting you the very personal *Fenix E1 CE*

may also help.


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## cheapo (Jan 16, 2007)

i really wish he'd make more of those r123 tubes.


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## Chev_chelios (Feb 18, 2008)

Hi. 

This is the light that gives me the L2D CE Fenix. 

I think it does not give a good source of light because have a ring of shadow around the point of light. 

What you think?

Greetings

Chev.

Sorry for my english.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 18, 2008)

Chev_chelios said:


> This is the light that gives me the L2D CE Fenix.
> I think it does not give a good source of light because have a ring of shadow around the point of light.


 
Hi Chev,

Your pic does not display.

But I think you are talking about the notorious Cree dark-halo (dark ring round the hotspot).

This has been discussed a lot on CPF when the first Cree Editions came out - and it seems like a characteristic of the Cree XR-E.

The more recent Fenix flashlights use an orange peel textured reflector to try to lessen the effect - but the dark halo can still be seen, albeit somewhat less.

If you have the original Fenix L2D-CE with plain reflector - the dark-halo is probably fairly easy to see.

See if you can unscrew the bezel (front) part of the head - this will allow you to reFocus the light and that can adjust the light until the dark-halo is virtually not there -

Please see this thread -

ReFocussing the Fenix L1D-CE (& L2Dce)

Hope that helps.


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## Chev_chelios (Mar 2, 2008)

Thank you for your help.

Greetings.

Chev.


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