# Are Smith and Wesson knives any good?



## xdanx

are Smith and wesson knives any good?

(sorry, I created this thread in the wrong forum. so I edited it to match the forum.)


----------



## cosine

*Re: Good Story*

Well, you will get varying opinions 'bout that. Many people don't like them, and consider them to be very cheaply made, but others don't care. 

BTW, welcome to CPF!


----------



## Danny62381

*Re: Good Story*

It really depends, The design on some of them are very good, but the steel can be rather soft. I EDC a S&W SWAT urban camo, that I purchased dirt cheap, and it has held up really well structuraly, rather dull tho. But, in turn, scince it is so inexpensive, I don't mind using it as a prybar/hammer. It does the job, rather well. I'm not saying its up there with benchmade by no means, but then again I only paid 10 bucks for it. 
Some people would hang me for using the words Benchmade and S&W in the same sentence, lol. In my opinion, they are a lot better than any other knife you'll pick up at a flea-market or pawn shop, and if you don't wanna mess up a REAL knife, it is one route to go.


----------



## Santelmo

*Re: Good Story*

Waaay back in '99 when I was just getting started with all the jazz about the "tactical" folding knife with the tanto point and serrated edge and a well-known gun manufacturer, it was a no-brainer. I bought the SWAT version with G10 handles. After about 5 years of 24/7 EDC and hard use, the liner finally gave and almost cut my pinky finger! A Spyderco Endura 3 now took it's place.

In a nutshell, the cons:

- NEVER held an edge for long. Think of re-sharpening as breathing.
- Pivot screw always loosens 
- Liner lock was too thin, hence finally collapsing

Too much potential for user-damage and defeats the purpose for a reliable cutting tool. 

The pros? If there ever was one, I think it would have to be that it's a "starter" knife for the FAR BETTER ones out there some of which are not too expensive. The Endura opened my eyes to what a quality knife is which is afterall Spyderco.

If you want one simply because it's cheap, do so. Personally, I'd go for the new Endura 4 and Bladetech's Hunter (in 440C metal). Reliable and functional designs. Benchmade also has the the Red Class products. These are all relatively inexpensive.


----------



## Malpaso

Benchmade makes great knives, S&W makes great guns. Very few manufacturers can make two great products (an exception being Pelican cases and lights), not that S&W actually makes their knives.


----------



## Planterz

S&W does not make knives. They're made by Taylor Cutlery, in the People's Republic of China. Keep that in mind when you look at models in the "Homeland Security" line. S&W uses 440C, which Benchmade and Spyderco also use. Properly heat and cryo treated, 440C is an excellent steel. The 440C on S&W knives is crap. Utter crap. Many of their knives have inherent design flaws as well as manufacturing flaws. On one S&W knife I looked at ($65 marked down to <$20) the blade contacted a standoff when closed. I thought maybe only the display model had this flaw, but we looked at a couple others and they all did. Combine this with shoddy manufacturing and you can have a very unsafe knife. Most S&W folders are frame or linerlocks, which if made improperly can be dangerous. The linerlocks are especially dangerous, as they're weak, thin, and might not properly engage. A bad linerlock is an ER visit waiting to happen. I only ever owned one S&W knife (a Texas Ranger line, cost me $16). I can get a shaving sharp edge on most any of my knives. I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker with the optional diamond and extra fine rods. I also have an Edge Pro Apex with a full assortment of stones and polishing tapes. But I could not get the S&W sharp worth a damn. The only way it felt sharp is if I used the roughest grit possible, and then it was more like a saw than a knife. Any attempt to put a real edge on it was thwarted by the crappy steel. Not like it'd hold any edge I could put on it anyway. At one point I noticed the blade was rusting underneath the black coating. Simichrome started to remove the coating. The linerlock was extremely craptastic. I ended up giving the knife to a coworker, who broke the knife throwing it into his wood floor. The only S&W knives I've seen that are worth a damn were designed by Darrel Ralph (one of the best knife designers and premier custom knife makers on the planet). A coworker had a DR designed HRT line knife, a framelock, which was a pretty solid knife. Smooth opening, secure lock, no blade wiggle. But unfortunately, it had the same badly treated 440C as all their other knives.

If you want a good, dirt cheap knife, look at Spyderco's Byrd line and Benchmade's Red Class. These knives are generally in the $20-30 price range, use decent steel with the best heat treat in the business, and are backed by excellent warrenty/repair departments.


----------



## xochi

S&W have become branding whores.


----------



## chmsam

Blade steel is a big debate item, but folder blade safety should be cut and dried (get it? cut and dried!! Ha!  ). This is an easy thing to check in my opinion, and S&W or any other blade, regardless of cost should have a tight lock up for any folder. For any folder you look at, pick it up, open it and be sure it's locked (you should hear a nice, loud click), and then carefully flex the blade up and down, and also side to side.

A minimal side to side play might be OK, but up and down play means there is potential for play in the lock. That is never acceptable to me. It means the lock could fail under stress far easier than a lock that is tight and has no up and down play. This is where it is very important that you get what you pay for. Cheap knives with cheap steel can still be made to cut, but a cheap blade lock will cost you a lot more in the end!

I have never seen a S&W knife that didn't flex up and down when I tried it. I've tried several, and there might be some out there that don't, but I haven't found one yet that I would buy.


----------



## RebelRAM

I own several S&W knives, mostly from the SWAT series. They used to be my EDC. But I eventually replaced them with CRKT and Spyderco. CRKT used to be really nice, but on their lower end models they are using softer steels now. So to get a good CRKT you have to spend about $60+ now. So for the most part I carry a Spyderco Native now. Wal-Mart has started selling the Natives as well for a very reasonable $40 with S30V steel.

S&W knives as you can see, many above have much to complain about them. But you will also find knife guys will complain about any little thing the same as gun guys. So my advice is, if you are set on a S&W, don't pay any more than $30 for one. Better knives can be had for about the same price and for $50 you can get a really nice knife. So you must ask yourself, how much quality do you want?


----------



## fluorescent

JUNK!!!


----------



## Joe Talmadge

Most of the S&W knives -- made by Taylor Cutlery -- aren't the best quality. Occasionally they seem to make a better model here or there. The thing is, Taylor had a habit a few years back of copying a custom maker's knife, making a few small changes, and offering it as their own. I know of custom makers who claim to have lost revenue due to Taylor coming out with a slightly-changed copy, before that maker could come to an agreement with an honest company to license the design. Scumbaggedness at its worst, IMO. I still hold a grudge against Taylor for that, but the fact that you can get better knives from other companies makes it easy to avoid them.


----------



## NeonLights

I own a couple of S&W knives that I bought some years ago. IMO they are a step above the super-cheap knives you can get for $2 or so, but I just don't use mine anymore. For the same price or a few dollars more Kershaw has some much better knives. I got tired of constantly sharpening mine and living in fear of the flimsy liner-lock.

-Keith


----------



## TonkinWarrior

Planterz speaks the real truth here. 

When you learn something about knives, blade steel/tempering, locking mechanisms, and sharpening -- and want your knife(s) to last -- you'll avoid the S&W budget-junk. 

Spend a few more buck$ for a Benchmade Griptilian/Mini-Griptilian, or a Spyderco Delica/Endura... and you'll have one of the better time-tested values that won't let you down under high-stress use, holds an edge well, and re-sharpens readily.


----------



## Coop

Take a look at Böker knives too if you're looking for a knife thats not too expensive. They arent the best knives around, but I've been playing with a few some time ago, and they are better than any of the S&W knives I tried out.

+/- €25 will get you


----------



## ghostrider

I was at a show recently with a friend where a dealer was closing them out at $10. Even at that price I’d go with a byrd for $25 shipped. The byrd offers a better steel that takes and holds a mean edge, and the quality is far better (stay away from the Harrier). For about $20 more you can get a Endura or Delica with a much better steel. Right now, the type of steel may not seem to matter, but once you start sharpening it you’ll notice the difference. The VG-10 used on the Spyderco’s sharpens as easy as most steels I’ve used (although it could just be my experience), and holds an edge longer. The “8etc.” steel on the byrds is pretty good in edge retention (although not as good as VG-10), but IMHO is harder to sharpen than VG-10. 

I see no reason to buy a S&W with all the decent quality inexpensive knives on the market. Benchmade has a great reputation, and Spyderco’s byrd line is hard to beat for the price. I’ve had some CRKT knives and like their design, quality, and construction, but unless you get one of their knives with AUS-8 or better I don’t think it’s worth it. For the money you spend on a premium CRKT you could spend less for a Spyderco with VG-10, or even S30V. 


Just my .02. YMMV. People like Mr. Talmadge are far more knowledgeable than myself.


----------



## BatteryCharger

Total crap! I had two, both of which were always dull and quickly fell apart screw by screw while being clipped to my pocket. There are many other cheap chinese made knives that are MUCH better quality.


----------



## xdanx

I have a S&W S.W.A.T. and the blade gets dull very very easily. but the handle is very good quality. Thanks for the info. I just wanted to see how they stacked up to more high quality knives. Also My EDC is a Boker HK not the S&W.


----------



## GarageBoy

CRAP
Get a Byrd or a Spydie or a BM (even at the lower price end)


----------

