# Akaline Battery Leakage/Usage Poll (Part 2)



## Lynx_Arc (May 29, 2012)

I have decided to start another poll to ask the members here about their experience with
alkaline batteries. The former poll that was done 3 years ago is HERE if you want to read it.
I ask anyone who participates in the poll to post their experiences with alkaline batteries and discuss as they see fit, all observations and opinions are welcome (pro/con). I suggest that for the sake of the first section we preclude alkaline types that cannot be replaced by another type of battery chemistry in other words batteries that you are stuck with alkalines only as there is no alternative.

Here are the rules for the poll:
1)first section (1 in XX leakage) one choice per person please (4 options, 1 choice allowed)
2)second section (concerns) one choice per person please (3 options, 1 choice allowed)
3)third section (usage) choose any/all that applies (3 options, 3 choices allowed)

NOTE: You can choose up to 5 total choices in this Poll.


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## Wrend (May 29, 2012)

Back when I was using alkaline AAs and AAAs more frequently, probably about 1 in 3 leaked eventually. Of course I was keeping them around for a while after discharging to recycle them. Probably about 1 in 5 leaked eventually in devices when kept in them too long. I primarily used Duracell, Energizer, and Rayovac.

Now I basically just use Eneloops for everything that takes AA and AAA cells. They all (and I have well over 100) continue to work well. I store them charged, ready to use, so I can just switch out the depleted cells in a device with charged ones. I also keep them in sets of cells that only get used together and charged at the same time.


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## ChrisGarrett (May 29, 2012)

In January, I opened some packaged Energizer and Duracell (3/03) D batteries, 12 of them from the late '90s/early 2000s and only a single Energizer had leaked, so not bad for roughly a dozen years sitting. They still tested pretty well!

I have had cheap Chinese remote batteries leak, over the years, sometimes ruining the device, but mostly I've been able to clean up the contacts.

I've removed all of the batteries from the remotes that I don't use often, so I do micro-manage things a bit and earlier in the year, I bought some new NiMH/Li-Ion chargers and batteries, so I'm kind of moving in that direction.

Chris


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## Lynx_Arc (May 30, 2012)

After looking at poll results I am getting the idea that some are not checking the percentage section options at all, remember the 4th option is either 1 in 250+ OR NONE at all. This option is basically IMO stating that you either think or have experienced such that the chances are very small to nonexistent.


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## eebowler (May 30, 2012)

One time I had new D size, Rayovac cells in a 2D maglite. Over a few months I'd put on the light occassionaly for a couple minutes to play with it (maybe 30 mins of use total with a 600mA load). One time I checked the cells, one leaked a little while the other was good. Open circuit voltage was over 1.5V on both cells.  They were no way near to their expiry dates.


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## Shadowww (May 30, 2012)

I'm using LSD NiMH's (Eneloops for AAA/AA, Tenergy Centura's for D) for anything high-power (flashlights (duh), cameras, and similar) and Lithium primaries for ultra-low-power devices where they last a long time, few months to over a year (wall clocks, remotes, DMM's)


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 30, 2012)

So far it look like half the people that responded to the poll had an alkaline battery leak. 
Remember the over 1 in 250 option ALSO includes NO leaks at all as I considered that high enough to be a non issue for most people even though even that one leak could end up costly.


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## Wrend (Jun 30, 2012)

Also, don't forget the 1 in 25 *or more*, as was the case for me.


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## Sub_Umbra (Jun 30, 2012)

We use mostly NiMH personally anymore but we go through lots of 9V and AA alkalines for body mics. We stopped buying batteries from hardware stores, drug stores and everywhere else where the whole staff doesn't know jack about batteries. All it takes is one part timer dropping a case while stocking or much worse, a forklift driver in a general merchandise warehouse *dumping a whole pallet* on the hard cement. NOTE: I don't have anything against part timers, forklift drivers or *anyone* who works in a retail store -- but that doesn't mean that I'm going to let them touch any battery *I'm paying for.*

Years ago I switched to buying *all my batteries* only from vendors that make the sale of batteries their main business. These are folks who sell hundreds and *hundreds of thousands* of cells each year. I have run into incredible idiots running cash registers and stocking shelves. I do not buy cells anywhere that employs untrained individuals who could screw up my cells *without even knowing what they did.*

Whether you give it much thought or not, today's cells are very high tech and somewhat fragile. If you buy cells stocked by kids who are *also* stocking shelves with bleach and bags of potting soil you are looking for trouble. If CPFers put cells purchased that way into expensive lights they are looking for big trouble.

If your cells leaked ask yourself this question, "...Where did I buy those cells?..." To paraphrase Albert Einstein -- _'...insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again, always expecting a different result...'_ I think many think this way about batteries. *If they leak buy from someone else!* If you don't, how do you ever expect to find cells that don't leak? Of course bad things can happen even in organizations where *everyone* is up to speed on the handling of batteries but I firmly believe mishaps are much less frequent with specialists. 

There are great batt suppliers advertising here on cpf.

We use Procells as the specs are a bit better than Coppertops. The alkys we use personally usually sit around 3-4 years before use (FIFO) so we would be considered a prime candidate for leakage when compared to most.

I'm in the *1 in 250+ OR NONE* camp since I switched to a specialty house years and years ago. (Actually, I'm in the *NONE* camp)

As usual, YMMV.


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## tickled (Jun 30, 2012)

Sub_Umbra said:


> We use mostly NiMH personally anymore but we go through lots of 9V and AA alkalines for body mics. We stopped buying batteries from hardware stores, drug stores and everywhere else where the whole staff doesn't know jack about batteries. All it takes is one part timer dropping a case while stocking or much worse, a forklift driver in a general merchandise warehouse *dumping a whole pallet* on the hard cement. NOTE: I don't have anything against part timers, forklift drivers or *anyone* who works in a retail store -- but that doesn't mean that I'm going to let them touch any battery *I'm paying for.* Years ago I switched to buying *all my batteries* only from vendors that make the sale of batteries their main business. These are folks who sell hundreds and *hundreds of thousands* of cells each year. I have run into incredible idiots running cash registers and stocking shelves. I do not buy cells anywhere that employs untrained individuals who could screw up my cells *without even knowing what they did.* Whether you give it much thought or not, today's cells are very high tech and somewhat fragile. If you buy cells stocked by kids who are *also* stocking shelves with bleach and bags of potting soil you are looking for trouble. If CPFers put cells purchased that way into expensive lights they are looking for big trouble. If your cells leaked ask yourself this question, "...Where did I buy those cells?..." To paraphrase Albert Einstein -- _'...insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over again, always expecting a different result...'_ I think many think this way about batteries. *If they leak buy from someone else!* If you don't, how do you ever expect to find cells that don't leak? Of course bad things can happen even in organizations where *everyone* is up to speed on the handling of batteries but I firmly believe mishaps are much less frequent with specialists. There are great batt suppliers advertising here on cpf. We use Procells as the specs are a bit better than Coppertops. The alkys we use personally usually sit around 3-4 years before use (FIFO) so we would be considered a prime candidate for leakage when compared to most. I'm in the *1 in 250+ OR NONE* camp since I switched to a specialty house years and years ago. (Actually, I'm in the *NONE* camp) As usual, YMMV.


 That sounds more like myth mixed with a little wishful thinking than anything else.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 30, 2012)

tickled said:


> That sounds more like myth mixed with a little wishful thinking than anything else.


I wouldn't say myth, but often I wonder if the people that have less leakage issues live in certain parts of the country or world. I think at times that batteries have a long way to travel to get where I am and at times are shipped in extreme weather along the way and rough roads and stored in warehouses with poor climate control.


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## Sub_Umbra (Jun 30, 2012)

tickled said:


> That sounds more like myth mixed with a little wishful thinking than anything else.


With one notable exception -- *no leaky batteries.* Try to stay focused on the Subject. *(It's all about leaky batteries)* That is no *myth* or a product of *wishful thinking.* This is not Rocket Surgery -- if you go to a restaurant and the food sucks *don't eat there again.* Call it whatever you want but I'm *not* one of the posters on this thread with leaky cells. I can deal with any fantasy you're predisposed to on this subject as long *as I don't have to deal with leaky cells.*

As as far as the wishful thinking goes I think buying cells that have been *bumped around* in an Ace Hardware or Walgreens warehouse by the untrained and handled like dish soap and charcoal it is totally unrealistic for one to expect that your cells will be handled *unlike* dish soap or charcoal. *Now that's a great example of wishful thinking.* To each his own.

This is not hypothetical. I *do* this. It works. *It has worked for for me years.* Call it whatever you like.


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## reppans (Jun 30, 2012)

I use NiMh and Li-ion rechargeables since I hate variable costs. 

Sure I've had Alks leak, but I'll take the blame because that's the one battery chemistry I could care less about and don't bother monitoring. If I spent half the time I do monitoring NiMh and especially Li-ion, an Alk would never leak on me. 

Truth be told, since I'm low lumen enthusiast, an Alk will actually perform better than the rechargeable chemistries I'm using.


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## tickled (Jun 30, 2012)

Sub_Umbra said:


> With one notable exception -- *no leaky batteries.* That is no *myth* or a product of *wishful thinking.* This is not Rocket Surgery -- if you go to a restaurant and the food sucks *don't eat there again.* Call it whatever you want but I'm *not* one of the posters on this thread with leaky cells. I can deal with any fantasy you're predisposed to on this subject as long *as I don't have to deal with leaky cells.* As as far as the wishful thinking goes I think buying cells that have been *bumped around* in an Ace Hardware or Walgreens warehouse by the untrained and handled like dish soap and charcoal it is totally unrealistic for one to expect that your cells will be handled *unlike* dish soap or charcoal. Now *that's* wishful thinking. To each his own. This is not hypothetical. I *do* this. It works. *It has worked for for me years.* Call it whatever you like.


 And a rock to keep the tigers away? In the absence of anything more solid or empirical, it sounds a lot more like superstition.


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## SilverFox (Jun 30, 2012)

Hello Tickled,

Actually SubUmbra has some pretty sound footing to support his "wishfull thinking" and "myths." Call a major manufacturer of alkaline cells and ask them how abusive handling and temperature effects their cells. 

You can also run a test on this. Pickup 50 - 100 alkaline cells and toss them into the back of the trunk of your car. Once a month take them out and drop them on the pavement then put them back into the trunk. In about a year you should start to see some leaking.

The problem is that the manufacturers are trying to cram as much into the cell as they can. This makes them sensitive to jolting and bumping. Internal damage can lead to leaking. The biggest problem is with temperature extremes. Duracell recommends replacing batteries that are left in a vehicle at the end of the summer heat to avoid having them leak.

From Energizer...

13. What increases the possibility for alkaline battery leakage?

Typically alkaline batteries will not leak under normal storage and/or usage conditions. The potential for leakage is significantly increased however if the batteries are subjected to charging, mixing of battery chemistries, mixing of fresh and used batteries, physical damage, extended exposure to high temperature or deep discharged. Alkaline battery leakage is extremely caustic and contact with bare skin should be avoided. In the event that battery leakage comes in contact with your skin, flush the area for 15 minutes with copious amounts of water and seek medical attention.

The big question is what is "normal storage" and what causes "physical damage."

Tom


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## SaraAB87 (Jun 30, 2012)

I have definitely had leaking alkaline cells. I had one just randomly leak while sitting in my battery box. It had a good date and was new or nearly brand new so it was not excessively discharged. Unfortunately it got all over some of my other batteries and I had to clean up the box which was a pain.


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## SaraAB87 (Jun 30, 2012)

I apologize if I accidently double post but I also wanted to say that I would only buy batteries from stores that get a lot of foot traffic here. For example Kmart is a desert here and they don't rotate their stock well. They have some old duracell rechargable batteries sitting on the shelves that have probably been there for years, not good. I think they might be duracell 2500's which if I am not mistaken are very bad. I have been getting eneloops from Amazon but if I had to buy retail I would stick with Walmart or Target. I don't think I will have to buy batteries for a long time because I have so many now. Both stores here likely sell tons of batteries and therefore you are almost always guaranteed fresh batteries. I would avoid corner stores and the like for batteries, since its more likely batteries have sat for years in those stores, they are usually more expensive too.

One more thing, maxell batteries, avoid like the plague! I had a set of alkalines with a good date, never used and they leaked while in my box. I have seen other reports of the same thing happening to other people who have used them. The batteries were not counterfiet either as they came with a speaker dock that I bought. Based on my experience these batteries have a high potential of ruining your device.


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## Sub_Umbra (Jul 1, 2012)

tickled said:


> And a rock to keep the tigers away? In the absence of anything more solid or empirical, it sounds a lot more like superstition.


Perhaps you should start your own new thread about *superstition* since this is the first time that the topic has been broached *in this thread.* I have sited nothing *even remotely superstitious* in this thread. (*Go ahead, quote me*) I have sited reasons for *all* of my posted opinions and you have not *condescended* to contest *even one of them.* Argue with *MY SUCCESS* all you want.

In an attempt to answer you in the true vein of your post, perhaps the reason your cells leak is that someone has put a hex on them... My advice: buy some vinegar and some cotton swabs. *You are going to need them.* Don't concern yourself with where you bought them...that has nothing to do with it...*that's just superstition...*


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## louie (Jul 1, 2012)

I always figured it's a crap shoot to leave alkalines in something, but I feel the leaking has gotten worse. I keep a pack of Costco Kirkland AAs on hand for emergency stock and for trivial devices like remote controls and clocks. But just last week, I had to rescue 2 things, a Braun travel clock and one of my modded Streamlight 4AA LED lights. The batteries had been fine for probably at least a year in the devices, and probably sat on my shelf for another year or 2 prior to that, then poophluut, they leaked. And I still recall previous leaks in another modded Streamlight 4AA LED, a Maglight (D cell), a pocket radio (AAA cell), a TV remote - it seems like after 3-5 years, everything I have alkalines in has been leaked in. The percentage of failure may not be so high (I voted for 1-4%) but in the long term, it's damaging the majority of my devices and eventually will kill some of them, and I'm fed up now and moving everything AA/AAA to LSD NiMH or lithium AA/AAA. I'll keep a pack of alkalines only for emergencies or giveaways. Everything else is LiIon.


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## Sub_Umbra (Jul 1, 2012)

OK, lets get a little pointy and ask some questions here and get off on perhaps a different foot.

Lets state from the get-go that I'm not out to get anyone-- I just want some answers from the respondents. After all, that's what I was looking for when I responded initially.

First of all, you guys who have high leakage rates on alkies-- Where do you get them? *And why?*

Not meaning to pick on anyone, but if a third of your cells leak, what does that actually mean, *in the real world?*

Could it mean that a top of the line, huge battery company routinely produces cells with a failure rate of 33%? No, I don't believe that for a second. How could that even be possible? It can not be possible that a state of the art cell maker in the 21st century could put out a product that would compete so poorly with others. The competition among the big producers is *so intense* that if one of them actually had a failure rate *of a third* they would lose their market share *in a second.*

Of course, no one here has actually accused any company of turning out bad cells for a third of their production. From a modern manufacturing point of view 1/3 rejects would equate to total, abject failure. That has not happened. If that actually happened, that big company would be out of business.

So what are we actually talking about, here?

I'll state up front that I believe that these cells from different manufacturers are far more similar than they are different. It almost has to be that way. *This is a very competitive business.*

OK. Now we start get to the crux of the biscuit. _If you are buying name brand alkys why are a third of them failing?_ Think about that for a second...

What's going on with your cells? It's a highly competitive market with few players. The few big players are very aware of their competitors advances and the competition is stiff.

If you really think about the technology employed in today's cells it will become obvious to some that the biggest difference in performance will all come down to how the cells *are handled* between the producer and the buyer.

That element is missing from most of the 'leaking' threads I've read. 

Bottom line: If you insist on buying your cells from the same guy where you buy your *SnoCones,* don't be surprised if they leak.


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## JemR (Jul 1, 2012)

I'm with Sub Umbra on this. Some warehouse and delivery people don't tread any electronic devices with much care. Ever got a box with “THIS WAY UP” and a big arrow emblazoned on the side, and/or “Handle With Care”. Are they really always carefully handled that way up the whole way from production to end user? I'm afraid I doubt it. Battery's must also rattle around together in boxes as they are tossed around the world's oceans and ports on their way to you. Bad news in anything you care about and spent good money on IMO. Some producers must despair.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 1, 2012)

JemR said:


> I'm with Sub Umbra on this. Some warehouse and delivery people don't tread any electronic devices with much care. Ever got a box with “THIS WAY UP” and a big arrow emblazoned on the side, and/or “Handle With Care”. Are they really always carefully handled that way up the whole way from production to end user? I'm afraid I doubt it. Battery's must also rattle around together in boxes as they are tossed around the world's oceans and ports on their way to you. Bad news in anything you care about and spent good money on IMO. Some producers must despair.


I think the problem is trying to figure out what mistreatment or abuse batteries can handle without leaking. I suspect the battery companies know more than they let out and perhaps leakage is higher than people realize but since maybe less than 10% of people force the battery companies to pay for the damage by taking advantage of their warranty and demanding satisfaction the battery companies get off easy. If like I have said only 10% pursue a claim then the cost of leakage is perhaps even less than 10% as I would suspect many get the brush off in the end getting maybe free batteries, if everyone that had an alkaline leak contacted the battery companies and gave them a huge hassle for the next 5 years I think suddenly they would put more effort into making them less leak prone.


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## SaraAB87 (Jul 1, 2012)

One thing I have learned is the average consumer mistreats batteries horribly. We are not average consumers on this board though. I shop yard sales, I have seen people mix lithum AA's with carbon zinc, rechargables with alkaline, and just about every other combo you can imagine. Most people in reality don't even know the difference between carbon zinc and alkaline. Though its a nice surprise to find rechargables where you least expect them. I have seen lithum AA in the most low drain devices, though not a bad idea if you want to avoid leaks but very expensive if you are getting them at retail. People have also sold me items that are broken but work fine when I put new batteries in, leading me to believe that some people are too lazy to change batteries or that perhaps although odd, they don't know how to change the batteries. Most things with leaks I have been able to rescue but 99% of the time those batteries leak because they are old and have been sitting in whatever for years.

The maxell batteries are the worst I have seen, just go read the complaints on amazon. Fortunately around here I haven't seen Maxell batteries for sale at major retailers though they did have some LSD maxell rechargeables at Kmart. I was going to complain to them about the batteries however the ones I had didn't come in a package and I didn't have a receipt for the batteries themselves. I also couldn't find anywhere to complain about them online and getting free maxell batteries doesn't sound too appealing.

The other case of leakage I described before was a Ray-O-Vac alkaline, It just leaked randomly while sitting in my box. I cannot verify where it came from though.


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## reppans (Jul 1, 2012)

SilverFox said:


> From Energizer...
> 
> 13. What increases the possibility for alkaline battery leakage?
> 
> ...



Am I missing something? Are some of you saying that if my Energizer or Duracell where properly handled buy wholesellers and retailers, it should not leak, *even if deeply discharged*? I was under the impression that an Alkaline will *usually* leak if left in a device long enough to deep discharge.... which is very often the scenario for us lazy consumers using alks in low drain infrequently used items like: back-up batteries for clock radios, forgotten kids toys and remote controls, etc.

I've had a lot of Alks leak, but I'll take responsibility because I've left it in the device forever without monitoring it's SoC. If switching to a professional battery retailer/handler would allow me to let alks *fully discharge* in a device without leaking, then I would be happy to switch retailers, even at higher cost.

Is this your experience Sub Umbra (since I didn't see mention of deep discharging alks in your posts)?

Thanks.... would love to learn something new.


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## Sub_Umbra (Jul 1, 2012)

reppans said:


> ...I've had a lot of Alks leak, but I'll take responsibility because I've left it in the device forever without monitoring it's SoC. If switching to a professional battery retailer/handler would allow me to let alks *fully discharge* in a device without leaking, then I would be happy to switch retailers, even at higher cost.
> 
> Is this your experience Sub Umbra (since I didn't see mention of deep discharging alks in your posts)?
> 
> Thanks.... would love to learn something new.


A couple points. We're pretty careful about deep discharges with alkys. Aside from a few remotes and clocks the vast majority of our alkaline use is body mics and I think that most of them require a min V such that they cut off before any kind of deep discharge. So no, no intentional deep discharges for us.

As far as the price goes I really don't see any difference between buying at brick and mortar stores or specialists -- it's competitive. Looking at the big picture with one I pay shipping and no tax and with the other I pay tax and no shipping.

The good news is that the specialty houses don't seem to cost more.


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## SilverFox (Jul 1, 2012)

Hello Reppans,

Of the 6 things listed as possible causes of leaking, I believe any one of them can cause the cell to leak. The chances of leaking go up if you combine several of the causes.

Tom


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## reppans (Jul 1, 2012)

Thanks for the explanations, it does make sense now. 

I do suspect that, by a vast margin, most of us that have experienced leaks do so out of sheer neglect on deep discharging - ie, not monitoring SoC as we might with NiMh, and certainly Li-ions, both of which I reserve for high use devices, and believe most other people do as well. 

With 6 primary factors contributing to leaky Alks, 4 of them are under my sole control so that really leaves only two in the hands of the retailers - physical damage and excessive heat. Nothing can be done about the container shipment from factory to retailer, but something can be done with storage at the retailer and delivery to the consumer. 

While I certainly agree a professional will take better care of storage at the retailer, this control is lost during shipment to the consumer with an online purchase... who knows what USPS and UPS exposes the batts to. 

I personally feel a little better with buying Alks from brick and mortar, if only to be able to inspect the package, physically read the expiration dates, and the easy of return if so unsatisfied. However, this whole thread has made me want to revert to lithium primaries for all my long-term, low draw devices that I will likely neglect and allow to go into deep discharge.... and with these, it definitely makes sense to buy from a professional online retailer since the price difference is much more significant, not to mention that chemistry is more resilient.

Thanks for clarifying.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 1, 2012)

I am wondering if the date stamped on cells had a little to do with leakage of older cells as I have found that I am getting more leaking close to the expiration date.


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## apagogeas (Jul 1, 2012)

Nice post count Lynx... brrr :naughty:
I had alkalines leak regardless of brand, mostly used in remotes which aren't of course subject to extreme heat or any sort of abuse. Those that have leaked, are generally forgotten there for years unused and when found, in most cases there was a leak. I never had a leak in a regularly used device or constantly under load (clocks or consuming the battery within months). Some of those leaked were down to 0 volts, some to 0.8V some even 1.3V. Some where well past their expiry, some were around their expiry date, some before expiry. I never had a panasonic or maxell leak, I had energizers and sony leak and other brands I can't recall now. Also among the cheapest no name batteries (or never heard of or advertized) I had a similar experience; some leak some don't. So, I can't conclude a definite reason why a battery may leak but I feel that if an alkaline is not used up, it will leak eventually. I still use cheap alkalines (or those that come with new gadgets) in clocks where a battery can last more than a year or two and has the battery constantly under load. I stopped using them in remotes (LSD in use now) because of the usage pattern I feel it can produce a leak. For anything else, LSD or some older NiMH till they are tossed.


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## SaraAB87 (Jul 1, 2012)

How does everyone feel about carbon zinc in remotes? Basic remotes without lights at least. Do these leak less than alkaline? Most of my remotes are extremely low drain and do not have lights or anything. The remotes with lights or other types of remotes obviously use more batteries and would require different types. My TV came with a remote and batteries that are obviously carbon zinc and after more than 6 months the remote shows no drain at all when batteries are put on a quick tester and I use the remote often. Obviously carbon batteries are more than adequate for this application. The batteries are dated 2013 so I will replace them a month or 2 before they are set to expire to be safe even if they are not dead. I probably have more batteries than I can use so I can afford to replace them when getting into the danger zone.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 1, 2012)

SaraAB87 said:


> How does everyone feel about carbon zinc in remotes? Basic remotes without lights at least. Do these leak less than alkaline? Most of my remotes are extremely low drain and do not have lights or anything. The remotes with lights or other types of remotes obviously use more batteries and would require different types. My TV came with a remote and batteries that are obviously carbon zinc and after more than 6 months the remote shows no drain at all when batteries are put on a quick tester and I use the remote often. Obviously carbon batteries are more than adequate for this application. The batteries are dated 2013 so I will replace them a month or 2 before they are set to expire to be safe even if they are not dead. I probably have more batteries than I can use so I can afford to replace them when getting into the danger zone.



Two problems with carbon zinc.... 
1)leaks are a LOT worse
2)warranty if they do leak may be non existant
As for their capacity probably half that of alkalines they are suitable for remotes but for clocks having to replace them 2-3 times more often may not be worth the savings. I use zinc carbon (heavy duty) only in my cheap $3 DMMs because occasionally I leave one on and drain the battery and alkalines cost about 4-5 times as much so far I have done that 3 times so I have spend $1.88 on heavy duty cells for 4 batteries vs $2.50 for one alkaline 9v.


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## yliu (Jul 1, 2012)

I had no alkalines leaking since I got into flashlights and started to take care of batteries.


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## JemR (Jul 2, 2012)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I think the problem is trying to figure out what mistreatment or abuse batteries can handle without leaking. I suspect the battery companies know more than they let out and perhaps leakage is higher than people realize but since maybe less than 10% of people force the battery companies to pay for the damage by taking advantage of their warranty and demanding satisfaction the battery companies get off easy. If like I have said only 10% pursue a claim then the cost of leakage is perhaps even less than 10% as I would suspect many get the brush off in the end getting maybe free batteries, if everyone that had an alkaline leak contacted the battery companies and gave them a huge hassle for the next 5 years I think suddenly they would put more effort into making them less leak prone.



Yes, Lynx Arc. Your about right with all of that. Most leakages are unreported and claimed on. Nearly all of them I suspect. If we all complained things would change. I fairly sure I know it would if alkaline was suddenly the only chemistry available and all our phones, laptops and iPad's had to ran on them. In less than 5 minutes probably. But with most people if there is a leak in a low cost item, they will simply bin it all and start again. “Throwaway Society” Opportunity to buy something new. That does let the makers off the hook, that is true. Inappropriate handling on route to the consumer and then by the consumer must be a factor in many. I have never just thrown packs into the bottom of a shopping trolley, then lumped bags of potatoes and bottles of drink on top of them. Unfortunately, with the varying qualities of batteries it's very difficult to calculate the abuse thresholds you hope for, I think. There is also a financial aspect in regards to packaging of cause. Better packaging means higher price per battery. Enough to mean many people won't want to buy them, they will always go for the very cheapest. The other brands need to compete so it all stays the same. I never put an alkaline battery anywhere near a flashlight. Even with my small AAA lights I put in L92's (voted in the poll). Extra cost. Yes, but for me they are worth it to know that when I really need the light, or lend it, it will have a far, far better chance of working. I make that decision before I buy a light as factored in running costs. I'm sure most of us do. For many though, the power source is the last thing they think about. They buy something new then scramble around in cupboards for batteries. After thought. Maybe the whole pricing of batteries was wrong from the beginning. If they were, say 20%, 30% or more in price, they might be better designed and made, and sent in better packaging. Or, more likely, most of the makers would just ended up having made extra profit on them.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 2, 2012)

JemR said:


> Yes, Lynx Arc. Your about right with all of that. Most leakages are unreported and claimed on. Nearly all of them I suspect. If we all complained things would change. I fairly sure I know it would if alkaline was suddenly the only chemistry available and all our phones, laptops and iPad's had to ran on them. In less than 5 minutes probably. But with most people if there is a leak in a low cost item, they will simply bin it all and start again. “Throwaway Society” Opportunity to buy something new. That does let the makers off the hook, that is true. Inappropriate handling on route to the consumer and then by the consumer must be a factor in many. I have never just thrown packs into the bottom of a shopping trolley, then lumped bags of potatoes and bottles of drink on top of them. Unfortunately, with the varying qualities of batteries it's very difficult to calculate the abuse thresholds you hope for, I think. There is also a financial aspect in regards to packaging of cause. Better packaging means higher price per battery. Enough to mean many people won't want to buy them, they will always go for the very cheapest. The other brands need to compete so it all stays the same. I never put an alkaline battery anywhere near a flashlight. Even with my small AAA lights I put in L92's (voted in the poll). Extra cost. Yes, but for me they are worth it to know that when I really need the light, or lend it, it will have a far, far better chance of working. I make that decision before I buy a light as factored in running costs. I'm sure most of us do. For many though, the power source is the last thing they think about. They buy something new then scramble around in cupboards for batteries. After thought. Maybe the whole pricing of batteries was wrong from the beginning. If they were, say 20%, 30% or more in price, they might be better designed and made, and sent in better packaging. Or, more likely, most of the makers would just ended up having made extra profit on them.


One thing I just thought of reading your post was some of the reasons for leakage.... like excessive heat and mishandling makes you rethink about putting them in something you aren't going to treat with kid gloves. Imagine forgetting your flashlight in the car on a hot summer day or dropping it on the ground from 4 feet in the air and cringing thinking.... oh no!... I better replace these alkaline batteries they are bound to leak now I have mistreated them. Makes you wonder how much abuse they really can really take in use without incident.


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## 45/70 (Jul 2, 2012)

I checked the first, and last three. I wasn't sure that would work, but it seemed to.

I have very few alkaline cells leak anymore, but then again I really don't use very many. I use a few that come packaged with items, but most of those I give away to people I don't particularly like. OK, not so much that, but I give most of them away.

I'm mostly NiMH/Li-Ion these days, the same as the last poll (Part 1?). For lights and such that are tucked away, I use lithium primary cells. For some devices that won't tolerate NiMH due to voltage requirements, I use NiZn, or sometimes lithium primary. "9 Volt" batteries are all 8.4 Volt NiMH.

The only alkaline cells I use regularly, are button cells. I'm still looking into NiMH button cells for these applications, but am not really sure whether it'd be worth it, or not. I have had alkaline button cells leak around the gasket, but it seems to be fairly rare.

Dave


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 2, 2012)

45/70 said:


> I checked the first, and last three. I wasn't sure that would work, but it seemed to.


Theoretically you could check every single box in the poll, but that would tend to defeat the purpose of it as the first section is the most important while the next two sections is to kind of get a feel for how people are reacting to new options compared to alkalines.


> The only alkaline cells I use regularly, are button cells. I'm still looking into NiMH button cells for these applications, but am not really sure whether it'd be worth it, or not. I have had alkaline button cells leak around the gasket, but it seems to be fairly rare.
> 
> Dave


I have found over the years that button cells can leak but there is so little stuff in them that the damage is minimized. I have had things messed up by them but the damage is less than half of what happens with normal sized cells (AAAA and larger). As for using nimh for button cells unless you are using them up really fast it isn't worth it as the capacity of them is a big drawback along with cost when you can buy button cells for 10 cents each or less. I have myself looked for devices powered by coin cells instead of button cells even though more expensive they have a lot more capacity to them and 10 years later still have considerably capacity left to them.... no leaks either.


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## JemR (Jul 2, 2012)

Lynx_Arc said:


> One thing I just thought of reading your post was some of the reasons for leakage.... like excessive heat and mishandling makes you rethink about putting them in something you aren't going to treat with kid gloves. Imagine forgetting your flashlight in the car on a hot summer day or dropping it on the ground from 4 feet in the air and cringing thinking.... oh no!... I better replace these alkaline batteries they are bound to leak now I have mistreated them. Makes you wonder how much abuse they really can really take in use without incident.



The bag of potatoes thing, that got you thinking? I could have used any hard vegetable, carrots, corn, frozen pea's etc. But not the tomato. Because batteries should be treated like fresh tomatoes. Handled with care, kept in a cool dry place and things not dumped on top of them! Joking aside. Yes, cars are a problem, no doubt. I have read another thread about emergency flashlights kept in cars. The temperature changes can be vast in some places, summer to winter. I think if someone has to keep changing them out or checking them because of the fear they may leak in those situations (rightly IMO), it's probably better to get lithium or NiMh in the first place. Just to avoid most of the worry. And on that dark road if the car breaks down the extra investment will all be worth it.


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## tickled (Jul 4, 2012)

I had a white box of D-cell Procells sitting in the coolest part of the house, forgotten for the past 10 years (expiration 2013). One of the cells had leaked. That must have been the cell that was dropped and run over by the forklift driver.


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## JemR (Jul 5, 2012)

tickled said:


> I had a white box of D-cell Procells sitting in the coolest part of the house, forgotten for the past 10 years (expiration 2013). One of the cells had leaked. That must have been the cell that was dropped and run over by the forklift driver.



They have done very well tickled. Perhaps the tomato type thing works. Hang on though. I thought Procells were one of the better regular Duracell products in a different branding for bulk. Where did you get some with a 11 year expiry, 10 years ago? Are you sure they're alkaline?


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## Shadowww (Jul 5, 2012)

procell's are exactly same as coppertop's, they have exactly same specs and even part numbers. only wrapper/packaging differs.


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## JemR (Jul 5, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> procell's are exactly same as coppertop's, they have exactly same specs and even part numbers. only wrapper/packaging differs.



Thank's Shadowww :thumbsup:. That's clarified what I half thought.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 5, 2012)

I just found a 2010 duracell AAA that leaked in a cheap LED light that I forgot about. Luckily a little vinegar and a Qtip and a fingernail file cleaned up the mess and polished the spring. The problem is the alkaline substance almost always takes the plating off whatever it coats essentially making at times some of them needing polishing/sanding in the future.


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## Sub_Umbra (Jul 5, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> procell's are exactly same as coppertop's, they have exactly same specs and even part numbers. only wrapper/packaging differs.





> "Believe it or not, the technical specs for Duracell Coppertop and Duracell Procell batteries are identical. Duracell Procell batteries are Duracell’s line of batteries designed for industrial, professional use. Duracell Procell batteries are packaged for the volume user. Procell batteries are not sold in blister packs. *A fresh Duracell Procell battery is typically charged a bit higher* (a fresh 9V Procell battery is typically at 9.5 volts or higher) *than the Duracell Coppertop.*"



Emphasis mine.

From:
http://www.medicbatteries.com/duracell-procell-battery-duracell-procell-batteries

Identical? If "_...A fresh Duracell Procell battery is typically charged a bit higher (a fresh 9V Procell battery is typically at 9.5 volts or higher) than the Duracell Coppertop..._" how can they be *identical* if one is charged "_...a bit higher..._" than the other? If these guys are right, *it's the SPECS that are identical, not the batteries.* Mysterioso.


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## JemR (Jul 6, 2012)

Very interesting stuff, Sub Umbra. I have just read the linked page a few times, and I don't really know what to make of it at all. Confusing marketing I think. I'm still not sure if they ”believe it or not” that the batteries perform differently. Different clothes and different names, Yes. But are they produced the same or not, it's not really clear. Then the part you highlighted. “...is typically charged a bit higher...”. I may be wrong. But I take the word “typically”, in that context, to mean most but not all. Similar to “usually”. Which would make it a little odd. As on that they would think to have a battery with the voltage you wish is a bit of a lucky dip.


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## Marc999 (Jul 9, 2012)

From old Maglites to remote controls to battery operated clocks, I've had alkaline batteries leak. In fact, the Maglite was toast, I just couldn't open it at all.

Although it would be nice to espouse the advantage of nimh (eneloop) to family members, the reality is my siblings have young children who tend to pry open anything and everything. Also, my siblings unfortunately can't be bothered to recharge, so they just keep on buying alkaline batts. Ahh well.


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## n3eg (Jul 9, 2012)

I am holding an AA alkaline. The warning says: "Battery may leak chemicals if opened, recharged, installed backwards, exposed to fire, or mixed with other battery types." No mention at all of overdischarging. Of course, when all your devices are run flat, and all your devices have 3 cells, you will have that 1 in 3 leakage rate. The average noob doesn't know this, and therefore blames the batteries for leaking rather than running flat. 

Of course, there were always those yellow and blue Ray-O-Leak batteries from our childhood, where every one of our toys had at least one brown battery contact...that green paper tape made a nice electrolyte wick.

I have also seen batteries of every type leak except for lithium, and that's probably because they are in paranoid protection circuits.


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## SaraAB87 (Jul 9, 2012)

Marc999 said:


> From old Maglites to remote controls to battery operated clocks, I've had alkaline batteries leak. In fact, the Maglite was toast, I just couldn't open it at all.
> 
> Although it would be nice to espouse the advantage of nimh (eneloop) to family members, the reality is my siblings have young children who tend to pry open anything and everything. Also, my siblings unfortunately can't be bothered to recharge, so they just keep on buying alkaline batts. Ahh well.



My family has energizer rechargable batteries, something tells me they are not exactly ready for another rechargable battery experience. The energizer batteries sit there unused and I now see packs of alkaline batteries around. Considering my very bad experience with energizer rechargables.... If i had that experience again without doing the research I probably wouldn't want rechargable batteries again either!

So many things take batteries that are easily forgotten about, even in a house without kids there is still so much, even worse if you have kids.

Heck after a disaster with my thermostat where it shut off one day in the middle of winter I realized the thermostat takes AA batteries and I didn't even know it had batteries in it. I am lucky those thermostat batteries didn't leak!


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 9, 2012)

I voted paranoid re Alkaline usage though I still use them and monitor them closely. A set of them ruined one of my light meters (LM631) awhile back, and I tried Eneloops in a new one, but they did not last long voltage wise, so I went back to Alkalines, but I do monitor then very closely.

Bill


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## jorgen (Jul 9, 2012)

I thought a leaky AA destroyed my Nitecore D30, and vinegar did nothing to help. Finally I bought a small tube of Deoxit. After one application, the light would turn on and after a second, a few weeks later the light worked normally. Now I run it on one 14500 and a dummy cell. No more alkys for me.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 7, 2012)

So far it appears about 1/3 of the participants in the poll haven't had a lot of problems with alkalines leaking (1 in 100+). I wish I was in that 1/3 as I recently found a cheap 3AA task force LED light had a damaged switch from a leaky rayovac battery. Luckily I had parts left from another of the lights that was dropped and broken I swapped out the whole spring/switch/boot assembly. I won't bother worrying about it as the lights cost me about $4 each and only 1 of about 4 I have in service was damaged. The odd thing is two of the lights are outdoors one in the garage and one in the car and neither of those have had leakage it is the one in the house that had not experienced 110 degree heat (or more in the case of the car).


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## Lynx_Arc (Sep 18, 2012)

I found some alkalines that have leaked in some of my dads old stuff generic no name brand and threw away a D cell rayovac that once leaked in my 3D dorcy LED light. I would clean it once a month or two and was using it in a 1D energizer accent lantern but got tired of cleaning it more and more often even if it still had almost 1.5v to it. I will try and bump this thread once a month till the poll expires on Jan 1. I am hoping for 100 people to participate fully in it I think last count it was 77 so far.


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## awyeah (Sep 20, 2012)

Here's a question for you battery experts - can Lithium batteries like Energizer Ultimate Lithiums leak like Alkalines? I just found a couple of leaky AAAs in my ZTS MINI-MBT, and I was *not* pleased.


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## Lynx_Arc (Sep 21, 2012)

awyeah said:


> Here's a question for you battery experts - can Lithium batteries like Energizer Ultimate Lithiums leak like Alkalines? I just found a couple of leaky AAAs in my ZTS MINI-MBT, and I was *not* pleased.



I've never heard of anyone having leak problems with energizer lithiums primary AA/AAA batteries.


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## Lynx_Arc (Oct 3, 2012)

I just bought a few of these select brand 9v alkalines and one of 4 of them was leaking. I also have a duracell 9v dated 2010 I never used that is swelling up inside and the voltage has dropped to 8.4v. Alkaline 9v batteries have gotten to the point of insanity in price sometimes $3.50 EACH in a 2 pack ($7 at Walmart for Duracells). The problem is I have to have them because the smoke detector uses them in this rental place. I bought these awhile back because they were 2/$1 and 3 out of 4 were good. The advantage of 9v is they are double sealed so leaks tend to cause minimal damage compared so single cell alkaline packaging. Perhaps they need to reduce the capacity of alkalines 10% and double package them to contain leaks better.

On another note.... 56 people have properly chosen from my percentage leakage in the survey. There is 2 months left I am hoping to get 100 people to participate in that section but I have a feeling that isn't going to happen by January 1st.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 10, 2012)

Less than a month for this poll to expire, I hope people don't have too many battery leaks over the holidays to ruin brand new gadgets and toys. I was looking at a thrift store and found a nice external flash for really cheap but when I opened it up to see the batteries in it the energizers had leaked ruining one of the contact plates on the battery hatch. 
Remember to check your alkaline batteries in devices often.


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## SaraAB87 (Dec 10, 2012)

I have seen a leaky "energizer titanium" battery, however it was placed in a 4 battery device with regular alkalines so the cells were mixed. That is definitely a no no. I don't know what formula energizer titanium is, the energizer battery with the orange writing.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 10, 2012)

SaraAB87 said:


> I have seen a leaky "energizer titanium" battery, however it was placed in a 4 battery device with regular alkalines so the cells were mixed. That is definitely a no no. I don't know what formula energizer titanium is, the energizer battery with the orange writing.



I've had Energizer Titanium leak before for no reason at all they were not abused by me and still measured 1.5v


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## LowLumen (Dec 10, 2012)

I use many more Eneloop now, but over the years have used many hundreds of alkaline from various brands (CVS, RiteAid, Walgreens, etc. But most all Made in USA) Honestly I have seen evidence of leak but most were long beyond expire date and completely dead/forgotten. In normal usage my leak rate has been on order of 1-2%. So filled the survey according. They are still used in wall clocks, remotes, thermometers, weather station, some toys, etc. Moderate to heavy use stuff all has eneloop now.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 11, 2012)

LowLumen said:


> I use many more Eneloop now, but over the years have used many hundreds of alkaline from various brands (CVS, RiteAid, Walgreens, etc. But most all Made in USA) Honestly I have seen evidence of leak but most were long beyond expire date and completely dead/forgotten. In normal usage my leak rate has been on order of 1-2%. So filled the survey according. They are still used in wall clocks, remotes, thermometers, weather station, some toys, etc. Moderate to heavy use stuff all has eneloop now.


According to the poll statistics so far you are falling right in the average between 1-4%.


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## AIRASSAULT18B (Dec 11, 2012)

My wife forgot to take her usual EDC light on a trip once. So she went to the local WALMART & bought a mini led maglight that comes with Duracells. In less then two weeks on her trip the light would not come on any more so I checked it & the batteries leaked so much it had welded the batteries to the tube. No she did not leave it on. I called Duracell & the sent a check for the light & new batteries. By the way I contacted Maglight & they said that was new stock so age was not the problem. I have had several devices ruined over the yrs prior to the advent of the new NIMH rechareables. I will not use them in anything of high value & only keep a supply for emergency backup.


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## uk_caver (Dec 11, 2012)

It's really hard to put a per-cell figure on alkaline leakage rates, not least because I use relatively few now, and generally they're in devices which seem to stop working (or complain) before the cells are dead.

Time-wise, I'd reckon it's definitely >5 years since I've had an alkaline leak (not counting very cheap ones bundled with cheap electronics which had leaked in the wrapper before I opened the package).

The last memorable alkaline leakage I saw would have been ~10 years ago in a friend's long-neglected mini-maglite, where the swelling of the cells was more of an issue than the leakage - it took a bit of thought and force to get the cells out.

On the other hand, the last leakages of any kind I had to deal with were internal NiCd cells in Rollei flashguns I was replacing for a photographer friend - at least 2 out of 4 units had leakage from the cells, albeit cells which dated back two or three decades.


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## TEEJ (Dec 11, 2012)

According to the poll, MOST of us had leaking alkalines.

LESS than 5% DIDN'T have leaky alkalines....with those with less than 1 in 250 counted as none.

The leaks in my experience come from USE patterns. IE: The people who put them in a device, and come back later to find the device ruined....are the primary victims. DEVICES are subject to and/or involve weather, humidity, movement, draw, etc.

So, for me at least, in a radar detector, GPS, any number of lights, radios, clocks, test equipment, etc....the alkies killed them.

If the batteries are in uses that don't subject them to much...they do better, but, even alarm clocks that lead a relatively easy life can fall victim.

In lights, well, they are more like alkali injection pods.


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## uk_caver (Dec 11, 2012)

As far as the questions go, for the next poll, maybe some more detail on the Alkaline/NiMH front could be handy.

I'm sure there are a lot of people here like me who use NiMH or other non-alkalines in the great majority of applications, with alkalines left in a few niche ones (clocks, remotes, etc).
I was wary that ticking the 'NiMH instead of alkalines' question might be taken as a claim I had _entirely_ abandoned alkalines.

Likewise when it comes to the 'concern' questions, I don't tend to worry about them leaking but that's partly because I don't use them in high drain applications, or in expensive, non-repairable or irreplaceable equipment.
Neither do I have to take meaningful care not to mix old and new cells, since I use them so infrequently that I don't have part-used ones lying around risking getting mixed up with new - discarded cells go in a box to wait taking for recycling. Nor do I have anyone else around who might mix up cells for me.

I'm not reckless in their use, but to say I was 'taking _more_ care' would seem almost like an admission I had got meaningfully burned in the past and had learned some kind of lesson.

(without wanting to seem pedantic, there is a typo in the figures - 1 in 250 is 0.4%)


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## TEEJ (Dec 11, 2012)

I see what you mean...if you don't really use alkalines much, and if you do, its in applications where a leak would be OK, and you monitor them carefully, you only have a few times where they leaked, etc.

Of course, some of the worry about interpretation might be assuaged by the few people who would know which stat was yours...and their ability to both know that, and have the inclination to analyze individual proclivities, etc.

I think if you just take each category at face value, and as non-exclusive....you should be OK for the purposes here.

For example, saying you use nimhs instead of alks really just means that you do that..not that you don't ALSO use alks.

For _more_ care and your fear of having been viewed as learned a lesson, I'm not sure why that level of concern is present...until you mentioned it, I had no idea anyone might read it that way. I took it at face value too...I mean, you CAN know something should get more care without having to have had given it less care previously...but I do see the shade of meaning you reference.

The 0.4% was a good catch too.


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## uk_caver (Dec 11, 2012)

If 'I use NiMH instead of alkalines' isnt interpreted largely exclusively, doesn't it amount to just saying 'I sometimes use NiMH cells' - the 'instead of alkalines' bit is pretty implicit in using any other kind of cell?

I can see it's difficult to get some idea of relative usage in a survey, not least if someone uses alkalines largely for low-drain applications, since they might have a reasonable number of alkaline cells compared to NiMH, but they actually use the NiMH cells they have much more heavily - I probably have about a ~1:3 alkaline:NiMH ratio including cells in use and awaiting use, but even given that, the fraction of the _power_ I use which comes from alkalines is relatively tiny.

Especially if allowing for people who use meaningful amounts of primary lithium cells, getting a good idea of relative usage of/expenditure on different chemistries is tricky.


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## TEEJ (Dec 11, 2012)

Yup, albeit I think most simply look at the averaged data, and see that only ~5% of the people had no experience with leaky alkalines, and those with more experiences with leaky alkalines were proportionally using other power sources such as nimh's, etc.

So if they are reading the poll to see if there were a lot of problems with alkies, they'd see that there were, and that most of us were not using them if we could use something else....and if still using them at all, they were limited to low value applications, etc.

Some nuances, such as who was simply not BUYING devices unless they could take other power sources...thus avoiding the pratfalls altogether...are not poll choices.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 11, 2012)

uk_caver said:


> As far as the questions go, for the next poll, maybe some more detail on the Alkaline/NiMH front could be handy.


I think polls only allow 10 total choices to them so trying to ask more than that would require another thread and another poll. 


> I'm sure there are a lot of people here like me who use NiMH or other non-alkalines in the great majority of applications, with alkalines left in a few niche ones (clocks, remotes, etc).
> I was wary that ticking the 'NiMH instead of alkalines' question might be taken as a claim I had _entirely_ abandoned alkalines.


Not really, ticking the nimh just means a choice instead of alkalines it doesn't mean you do away with all alkalines as many have attested here in posts they continue to use them in some devices where nimh use doesn't work out that well.


> Likewise when it comes to the 'concern' questions, I don't tend to worry about them leaking but that's partly because I don't use them in high drain applications, or in expensive, non-repairable or irreplaceable equipment.
> Neither do I have to take meaningful care not to mix old and new cells, since I use them so infrequently that I don't have part-used ones lying around risking getting mixed up with new - discarded cells go in a box to wait taking for recycling. Nor do I have anyone else around who might mix up cells for me.


I would say you worried about them leaking enough to limit their use in devices that they would work adequately in because of leakage concerns which is a good idea for the most part I think most here that still use alkalines in things have been more cautious with them.


> I'm not reckless in their use, but to say I was 'taking _more_ care' would seem almost like an admission I had got meaningfully burned in the past and had learned some kind of lesson.
> 
> (without wanting to seem pedantic, there is a typo in the figures - 1 in 250 is 0.4%)


Actually that isn't a typo... it is an error on my part, thanks for pointing that out this is my second poll in the forum and not anything near perfect for sure if the error remains there it is because I couldn't edit the poll to fix it but 0.25 vs 0.4% is close enough together to get the point across I think that the choice agrees that the leakage is negligible IMO 1-250 vs 1-400 means for the most part a leak once a decade perhaps vs 1-25 to 1-100 could be a leak every year or three perhaps for heavier users.

EDIT: The poll itself is not accessible to change only the first post so the error you mentioned (0.25% vs 0.4%) will stand. I may make another poll sometime next year or a year later if I get some input such that a better one can be constructed otherwise I think this poll will make an instructive point about alkaline batteries in use... most people don't trust them to not leak.


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## ZMZ67 (Dec 11, 2012)

Alkalines have repeatedly leaked for me,especially in lights.I do use alkalines in remotes,clocks and other low draw devices without many problems but have often found them to leak in other situations.The only flashlights I still use alkalines in are either very low cost flashlights or 9V Pak-lites.I don't know if the 9V batteries have inherently better construction or not but they don't seem to leak as often as common single cell batteries.There have been enough leakage problems with alkalines that I am nearly paranoid about using them for most applications.As far as lights go I typically use lithium batteries -AA,AAA,CR2 or CR123.
Sub Umbra's comments on battery abuse are interesting,I always look forward to his input,but still don't give me any added confidence in using alkalines irregardless of the retailer.If the batteries are that fragile then I would really rather avoid them.While I know it is possible, I still have not had a lithium battery leak for me and the same has been true with Nimh rechargeables though I don't use them often.I usually buy CR123s online but all my lithium AAs and AAAs have been purchased at common retail stores.


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## uk_caver (Dec 11, 2012)

Regarding NiMH, if people were just reading it as '_I use NiMH sometimes where I might otherwise use alkalines_', I'm rather surprised that there were fewer than 60% going for that option, assuming people voting all used meaningful numbers of AAs/AAAs, though I guess some people got burned in the past with poor cells and rough chargers.

I'd wonder if a question like "_I never use alkalines, or only use them in limited applications or emergencies_" might be useful in a future poll, since that might illustrate a fairly meaningful split between regular users and others.

As it is, it's hard to tell what kind of alkaline usage there actually is among people filling the survey in, beyond guessing that paranoid suggests limited usage.
Someone could say they had some concerns, and tick the NiMH. primary lithium and 'other' questions while still being a substantial (or even majority) user of alkalines, or say they have no concerns about leakage while being someone who uses NiMH almost exclusively without that being detectable.


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## TEEJ (Dec 11, 2012)

If people have experience with alkies, and they had them leak...I think that's enough info.

I mean, if you never used them, and were reading this poll to see if you wanted to...or were contemplating purchase of a light that needed them....

How different would your decision be if you were unsure as to if 95.5% or 95.8% of everyone who used alkies had a leak?

After, oh...say 50% or so reporting issues....I think you'd be thinking they obviously leak often enough to be flagged as a concern....let alone ~ 95% of all users.

If wanting more resolution that that, for this sized poll, frankly, its misleading to attribute to high a confidence level to small percentage differences.

Some people have ALL their alkies leak....some have had none....everyone else is in the middle.

I did some quick math earlier...and the leakage issues actually involved 100% of the AA and AAA alkies I used in 2009 and 2010, and ~ 60% of those in 2008. In 2011/2012, I did not use any at all. They were all from different sources, mostly supplied with whatever device they were in. I had a 9v in a smoke detector in 2008 that died a natural death w/o taking anything out with it. 

So I used to use them a lot before 2008, and transitioned over to lithiums or enloops, etc.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 11, 2012)

uk_caver said:


> Regarding NiMH, if people were just reading it as '_I use NiMH sometimes where I might otherwise use alkalines_', I'm rather surprised that there were fewer than 60% going for that option, assuming people voting all used meaningful numbers of AAs/AAAs, though I guess some people got burned in the past with poor cells and rough chargers.


I'm thinking some thought that section only allowed one choice instead of being able to choose 1 or even all of them. I've noticed over 80 people have participated in the poll but as far as the percentages go about 20 people didn't choose anything from the first section. In other words the poll isn't perfect nor has people partaking it answered perfectly but it has given some insight to things I think.


> I'd wonder if a question like "_I never use alkalines, or only use them in limited applications or emergencies_" might be useful in a future poll, since that might illustrate a fairly meaningful split between regular users and others.
> 
> As it is, it's hard to tell what kind of alkaline usage there actually is among people filling the survey in, beyond guessing that paranoid suggests limited usage.
> Someone could say they had some concerns, and tick the NiMH. primary lithium and 'other' questions while still being a substantial (or even majority) user of alkalines, or say they have no concerns about leakage while being someone who uses NiMH almost exclusively without that being detectable.


Keep the suggestions coming, maybe I will make another poll or if you can design a better one then you are welcome to make one of your own but I ask you to first allow this poll to expire in January so we don't have competing polls.


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## SaraAB87 (Dec 11, 2012)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I've had Energizer Titanium leak before for no reason at all they were not abused by me and still measured 1.5v



I haven't seen these in a few years at stores so I think it's safe to say they have been discontinued. Probably due to the leaking issue. I haven't seen one marked lithium leak yet and I did purchase one second hand device that had a mixture of lithium and alkaline in it but they were not leaking. If I get a leak with lithium I will be complaining to energizer.

I do keep a 2 AA maglite with alkalines in it but perhaps I should reconsider and put a set of Rechargables in the light, though my understanding is if something does happen maglite will replace the light. The light is only used very lightly around the house and only for a couple min at a time usually.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 11, 2012)

SaraAB87 said:


> I haven't seen these in a few years at stores so I think it's safe to say they have been discontinued. Probably due to the leaking issue. I haven't seen one marked lithium leak yet and I did purchase one second hand device that had a mixture of lithium and alkaline in it but they were not leaking. If I get a leak with lithium I will be complaining to energizer.
> 
> I do keep a 2 AA maglite with alkalines in it but perhaps I should reconsider and put a set of Rechargables in the light, though my understanding is if something does happen maglite will replace the light. The light is only used very lightly around the house and only for a couple min at a time usually.


I haven't heard of any problems with lithium primaries leaking at all.... ever. As far as lightly using alkalines keeping them from leaking it doesn't matter as I've had alkalines leak in lightly used devices like a remote for a fan that gets used a few times in the summer.


----------



## ncbill (Dec 13, 2012)

Wondering if the new "Duralock", "Power Seal" features will lower the leakage rate?


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 13, 2012)

ncbill said:


> Wondering if the new "Duralock", "Power Seal" features will lower the leakage rate?


If they could lower the chance to Zero I would pay 75 cents for AA/AAA alkalines easily perhaps even $1 each to put in remotes but even a 1/100 chance of leaking is too much and paying a lot extra to lower chances from 2-4% to 1-2% isn't worth it.


----------



## Shadowww (Dec 13, 2012)

Lynx_Arc said:


> If they could lower the chance to Zero I would pay 75 cents for AA/AAA alkalines easily perhaps even $1 each to put in remotes but even a 1/100 chance of leaking is too much and paying a lot extra to lower chances from 2-4% to 1-2% isn't worth it.



At $1/battery, why bother with alkalines? At that price you can get Energizer Advanced Lithium's (in bulk), which are much better than alkalines in every possible sense


----------



## awyeah (Dec 13, 2012)

Where's a good place to get them in bulk?


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 13, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> At $1/battery, why bother with alkalines? At that price you can get Energizer Advanced Lithium's (in bulk), which are much better than alkalines in every possible sense


I'm not talking about a bulk purchase though, if you only need 4-8 batteries then advanced lithiums run $1.75 or more and on a low drain device the only advantages they have is non leaking and temperature extremes.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 18, 2012)

Just opened a cheap taskforce 3AA LED that I had some mixed alkalines in it 2 duracell dated 2014 and one rayovac dated 2016. Both duracells leaked luckily not causing any damage as the rayovac was at the bottom. They say don't mix batteries but I don't see a problem mixing them relating to leakage if you don't use them and there is no vampiric drain. I'm beginning to think duracell AAs have a considerably higher chance of leaking after they are 5 years old as I have had some 2012's leak this year also and found a few 2009's in a rarely used device that also leaked. It could also be that some of the "made in China" ones are lower quality construction (more leakprone). I've noticed several made in China Duracells in the past that come "free" with lights and things.


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## RCM (Dec 18, 2012)

Those made in China Duracells usually make a loud pop when they start leaking...usually the positive end bulges out quite a bit first...almost as if the seal isn't working as it's supposed too!


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## SaraAB87 (Dec 21, 2012)

Ugh I have a problem, I just donated about 20 alkaline batteries to a family member who now reports he has used them all in about a month's time. I could only imagine how much this family is spending on alkaline if they used up that many batteries that quickly but I can't convince them that the eneloops and lacrosse charger are worth buying. If the average family really uses this many alkalines that quickly than Rechargables should be in every household.


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## SherlockOhms (Dec 22, 2012)

I grew up in the incandescent & zinc carbon "heavy duty" era. I remember back then it was common to have flashlights ruined by leaky batteries. Then alkaline appeared on the scene and even though they were relatively expensive, there was payback in longer usage and reduced leakage damage. Batteries improved over the years to the point where it was very uncommon to have leaks in anything that was regularly used. And even it seems like even something in storage could go unused for a good long time with no damage. 

It seems to me that sometime in the last 10 years the alky leakage problems have gotten worse again. I thought I read somewhere that this is because of environmental concerns driving use of particular materials in batteries. Is that a myth or reality? 

But even recently, all my alky leak problems have been in items that sat on a shelf for a year or more without being used. I just don't remember anything in frequent use getting damaged. I think I notice the battery is flat and swap it out before it leaks. 

I was an early adopter of rechargables for a few high-use things like a portable CD player, starting back when NiCds were the best thing commonly available. I switched to Nimh when those became available and later to LSD (eneloops) for my cameras and GPS since those didn't run long enough on standard nimh. 

I still use alkalines in remotes, clocks, flashlights, wii, thermometers, dmm and whatnot. 

Reading this forum and finding a few more leakage ruined flashlights have combined to get me to re-think again what types of batteries I use. Got some more Eneloops and a few Lithium AA. I'm not going to dump all alkalines however, I still think they have their place, I *am* going to try to be more aware of them and monitor charge levels better. 

The flashlight that stays in the car was refilled with Energizer lithium AAs for cold weather reliability. The light I'm adopting as an EDC now has a AA eneloop. Two more standby lights got 3 x AAA duraloops each. 

I took batteries out of the remotes that aren't being used and checked all of them. Batteries measuring at 1.3 volts and lower were replaced. I'll finish doing the same with the clocks and thermometers today. 

BTW, I have also seen leaky, corroded nimh AA more than once, but the leaks were minor and didn't damage anything other than the battery itself.


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## HighlanderNorth (Dec 22, 2012)

I dont use alkalines in any of my lights or any costly products. I just recently stopped using them after reading about problems with them here. I will use them in remote controls, etc. 

But I was over at a customer's about 6 months ago, when he was looking through his batteries, and this guy goes through lots of AA and AAA batteries, so he was seeing what he had left, and he breaks out these 4-packs of AAA's, and literally 2 out of every 3 or 4 were swollen and leaking! They were all name brand batteries too. No Chinese off brands here. He said they werent any older than 1-2 years tops. 

I bought a few packs of Eneloops(AA's), Eneloop XX(AA's) and a few more packs of Tenergy Centuras(AAA's) several months ago and switched to them.


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## shadowjk (Dec 22, 2012)

I have this naughty habbit. I have a "joule-thief"-like circuit charging 3xaaa eneloop lites (which power an on-demand night-light).

Whenever a pair of Alkaline AAs stop working in some device, I always run them by my "joule-thief". 

I've noticed that after I started this habbit, I've had lots more alkalines leak, luckily all after I removed them from the battery holder for the joulethief/vampire circuit.


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## ArcticHighlander (Dec 22, 2012)

I've mostly used energizer AA and AAA alkaline and would estimate that about 10% or more of them have leaked. I've had other brands leak but can't recall for certain which of them have leaked; I had assumed that all brands had some that leaked. Most leaks that I remember have occurred in flashlights, which I have a lot of, and several have been ruined by excessive corrosion before I discovered them. I have about 20 flashlights and they are mostly unused from spring to fall because of the extreme daylight and most are used periodically from fall to spring when daylight is in short supply. Being frugal I have usually run the flashlights until they noticeably dim or start to flicker. False savings however if it allows an expensive flashlight to be ruined. My priciest flashlights take lithium batteries however and I don't have to worry about them.


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## SaraAB87 (Dec 23, 2012)

I have seen all brands leak, but most notably I have had ray o vac leak when brand new and just sitting in my battery box. Maxell is also horrible and I have had them leak while brand new and in the package so I would avoid Maxell batteries at all costs, reviews on amazon only corroborate what I experienced. All brands will leak when left in unused toys, unknown if the batteries are drained or have power, maybe a lot of toys have parasitic drain causing the batteries to drain while in storage thus causing many more leaks than in other devices. I haven't met a second hand toy that had batteries in it that did not leak! I don't think I have seen Duracell or energizer leak while in storage but that does not mean they are any better than brands believed to be of lesser quality. I do have some of those made in China Duracell alkaline that I got free with devices and they don't seem to be causing a problem while in storage yet. I only found one set of made in USA Duracell Alkalines in my box.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 3, 2013)

The poll has ended with the following results:
1 in 25, 36 chose 35.8%
1 in 26 to 100, 29 chose 32.1%
1 in 101 to 250, 11 chose 13.6%
1 in 250+ to never, 5 chose 6.2%

I would say that if you averaged the first and second choices you could suggest that about 2/3rds of the 
people had an average of about 2 alkalines leak out of 100

Unconcerned about Alkalines leaking 40 chose = 31.7% (approx 1/3)
somewhat concerned about leakages 21 chose = 16.7% (approx 1/6)
Paranoid about leakage 65 chose = 51.6% (approx 1/2)

Those who want to can keep posting stories etc about alkalines or whatever your opinions or experiences either good or bad are with them but the Poll is over now. Perhaps in a few years I will start another poll but I think unless I can think of a lot better way to create a new poll comes up we need a change in battery quality either with the new Duracell prolock or whatever it is called or a new type of alkaline battery to improve odds against leakage.


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## VidPro (Jan 4, 2013)

SherlockOhms said:


> It seems to me that sometime in the last 10 years the alky leakage problems have gotten worse again. I thought I read somewhere that this is because of environmental concerns driving use of particular materials in batteries. Is that a myth or reality?
> 
> .



Through the years did you notice the outside container changing? more than 10 years ago these things were in a much thicker outer shell, there is some kind of inner sealing thing too (probably more important). As the "advancements" have been made to increase the stuff inside (more capacity) , I believe the containment has been reduced (so called improved). 

While they may have made "enviromental conciderations" in some aspect of the battery, it always looked to me like the profit and hype and competition concerns came first  At each change of the container came out, the new ones would scare me. "gee I donno if a 3atoms skin is gonna hold it"  

It is like the soda cans, first they were steel, then alum, then really thin aluminum with expansion joints, now it just barely holds soda, just dont drop it. it still "works" just doesnt cover all situations. As a stock boy this change of the container on the soda cans was Huge, as the cans got thinner and thinner, we had to be more and more carefull , and soda was spraying all over the place way more often.


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## wedlpine (Jan 28, 2013)

The other day I tried using my Preon 1 w/ clicky loaded with a Duracell alkaline. It didn't work. I opened it up and noticed that the battery had leaked. I bought the light brand new less then two months ago and the battery was the original battery. I had been using the light on a daily basis. Is it common for alkaline batteries to leak this quick? Hopefully I can replace the clicky and the light will still work. I think from now on I am going to use lithium primaries.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 28, 2013)

wedlpine said:


> The other day I tried using my Preon 1 w/ clicky loaded with a Duracell alkaline. It didn't work. I opened it up and noticed that the battery had leaked. I bought the light brand new less then two months ago and the battery was the original battery. I had been using the light on a daily basis. Is it common for alkaline batteries to leak this quick? Hopefully I can replace the clicky and the light will still work. I think from now on I am going to use lithium primaries.


I would say it was rather uncommon for that to happen but alkalines were not designed for high current applications such that a high power LED light can draw a lot of amperage stressing a battery hard, heating it up. I would contact duracell about the battery and get them to pay for repairs on the light.


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## RCM (Jan 28, 2013)

Just discovered this! Just glad they weren't in anything but in my battery box! They all have a 2017 expire date.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 28, 2013)

RCM said:


> Just discovered this! Just glad they weren't in anything but in my battery box! They all have a 2017 expire date.


Send energizer an email with that picture in it


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## RCM (Jan 28, 2013)

I tossed them all and they will probably want them back
I've really got no use for alkalines besides my vampire lights! Maybe I will send them an email with this in it


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 28, 2013)

RCM said:


> I tossed them all and they will probably want them back
> I've really got no use for alkalines besides my vampire lights! Maybe I will send them an email with this in it



They may not want them back, probably just send you a voucher or coupon in the mail. If you had something damaged they may want them though. It would be better to get a pic that shows the date on them though.


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## uk_caver (Jan 29, 2013)

What is the correlation between battery leakage and ambient temperatures - how much might the leak-free lifetime of a cell in Florida be likely to different to one in northern England?


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## RCM (Jan 29, 2013)

Yeah..don't have a pic with the date..wouldn't hurt to try...Duracell is a bit better when things like that happen though...


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## RCM (Jan 29, 2013)

uk_caver said:


> What is the correlation between battery leakage and ambient temperatures - how much might the leak-free lifetime of a cell in Florida be likely to different to one in northern England?



I had around the same amount of leakage in California as I do here in Florida. I know drastic changes in temperatures can cause them to leak, but mine are usually always inside...


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 29, 2013)

uk_caver said:


> What is the correlation between battery leakage and ambient temperatures - how much might the leak-free lifetime of a cell in Florida be likely to different to one in northern England?



You got me on that one. I would guess the less temperature extremes a battery has to endure the better the seals would hold out but to be honest I've had devices with batteries in them sitting out in the weather in the garage or cars not leak and some in remotes in the house leak so it may come down to the history of them prior to you receiving them just as much or possibly more so than how you use them. When you buy batteries you haven't a clue as to how long they bounced around on trucks in 100 degree weather or got slammed on the ground when a forklift drops a pallet of them on a concrete floored warehouse or if they are driven through a snowstorm then a day later are driven through a desert or not.


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## Stephanie Miller (Jul 3, 2013)

I had a few Energizers that were DOA from the factories with 2022 expiration dates. They didn't want them back, they just sent a voucher for some more batteries free. I will still continue to use Energizers, as i never really trusted Duracells.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 23, 2013)

*The Alkaleak Thread*

I've decided to create a thread dedicated to the discussion of alkaline batteries and their propensity to leak. 
Suggestions for use of this thread:
1)Posting about leaking cells in devices and damages
2)Discussions about which brands are leaking maybe less or more
3)Conditions behind the leaks (what may contribute to leakage)

The purpose behind the thread is to make more people aware of the damage caused by alkaline batteries when they leak and suggestions and observations related to "accidents". 

I will start the thread with my latest leak discovery, I had 4 D cell Everactive (Walmart Brand) dated 12/2001 almost new leak in a battery holder for a flourescent lantern. Only one cell leaked and it covered the bottom of the cell thick in white powder. The cell measure 1.55v on a load meter. The other 3 cells of the same brand in the same holder didn't leak. I only put the batteries in the lantern to test it when I got it back from rayovac from replacement (it was broken, warranted). I probably used the batteries in it a total of about 3-5 minutes. The battery leaked out of the bottom end facing the ground at the time.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Dec 23, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

Good idea. Probably an important and useful new thread for this section.



Lynx_Arc said:


> ...dated 12/2001...<snip>



Is this a typo, or were your cells 12 years old?


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## schizeckinosy (Dec 23, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

I know if I have anything that uses multiple batteries, and I leave alkalines in there for a long time without using it, they will leak.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 24, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



schizeckinosy said:


> I know if I have anything that uses multiple batteries, and I leave alkalines in there for a long time without using it, they will leak.


I'm thinking that having multiple batteries just multiplies the chance of getting a leaker as I've had single batteries leak also in lights like my dorcy 1AAA, husky (Home Depot) 1AA some 1AAA arc clones, and some Xnova 1 cell lights. I like your avatar :thumbsup:


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## Launch Mini (Dec 24, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

A Minimag AAA light. Assuming the Alki leaked, as when I went to use it (years ago), no power, and both the head & tail were seized up so bad I could not get into the light.
Multiple remote controls for TV, VHS etc. Most were dual AA batteries.
Recently, my mouse with a Single AA, just scrapped off the crud & it works


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 24, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

I'm interested in any methods of cleaning up leaks other than perhaps the one I typically use... vinegar and then water and then alcohol. I'm thinking you could use lemon juice even as it is acidic enough but other juices could have sugar in it which IMO is not a good thing.


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## louie (Dec 24, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

My latest leak was last month, 1 of 4 Kirkland AAs in a (crummy) Princetontec Amp5. I keep this light in the closet as a loaner. It'd been there a couple of years and I decided to test it. I had to do a total disassembly of the head for water cleaning and fix some corroded solder joints. 

My gut feeling is that alkaleaks are occurring much more often now. It's been disconcerting. For me, they seem to occur after sitting in the device for a year or so. It totally turns on its head the notion of having handy lights around, but they've been leaking in everything I have - clocks, radios, remotes, etc. as well as lights. Mine have all been USA batteries including Kirkland, Energizer and Duracell. I've been gradually converting everything worthwhile to Eneloops. 

Personally, if I'm trying for a cleanup, I don't worry about neutralizing so much as a thorough water wash with a brush. I worry more about the corrosion on contacts, circuit traces and solder joints.


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## N8N (Dec 24, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

Agreed, I've had more cells leak in the last year than I remember. Maybe it is because we use more battery powered devices now than we used to, and cells last longer in flashlights because we're not using incans anymore? In any case, unless NiMHs, Li-Ions, and LiFePO4s start leaking, it won't happen again (as I am completely alkaline free, unless I missed a device!)

I've cleaned up with distilled water and Deoxit - the combination of the two hasn't failed me (yet)


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## mcnair55 (Dec 24, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

Personally i would like to know the failure rate against quantity sold which i wager is point something of 1%.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 24, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



mcnair55 said:


> Personally i would like to know the failure rate against quantity sold which i wager is point something of 1%.


This isn't scientific but it is revealing
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?338882-Akaline-Battery-Leakage-Usage-Poll-(Part-2)


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## Viking (Dec 30, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

Just found a leaking alkaline in my indoors thermometer. There was two cells in the unit , one of them was leaking.

The cells are Duracell plus ( AA ). Expiration date is March 2010.

PS.
I just checked them. They are both completly dead , minus 0,6 volt on my multimeter 

*EDIT*

I found two more leaking alkalines ( AAA ) in the transmitter to the thermometer mentioned above ( also placed inside the home ).
There was two cells in the unit , and both are leaking so heavily I can't even read the brand name of the cells or the expiration date. But they must be over date for sure.


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## Mr Floppy (Dec 30, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

Not the worst but this is going to take some cleaning. These are the Pro versions that are not for retail. Not that the "Pro" matters much.


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## cy (Dec 30, 2013)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

AAA alkaline leak the worst of all batteries that I've personally used.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 14, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

I just found a duracell AA new with expiration of 2014 in my battery storage case that had leaked. It didn't even wait till 2015 so it would expire officially.


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## BillSWPA (Jan 20, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

I started converting from alkaline to NiMH last fall. My wife was not happy with the amount of $ spent on cells and chargers. However, last weekend she found an alkaline cell leaking in a Bulova clock that she has had for years. That was her "eureka" moment: the cost of alkalines is not just the cost of buying cells repeatedly, but also includes the cost of stuff that is ruined by leaking cells. Fortunately we were able to clean out the white residue with a pencil eraser, and the clock still works properly with an Eneloop installed. Last fall I lost four flashlights to leaking alkalines, and found leaking alkalines in a $150 scientific calculator and a microcassette recorder. The replacement cost of the calculator (which fortunately was not damaged) could buy a lot of NiMH cells.

I still have a bunch of alkaline AAA and AA cells, as well as a smaller number of 9v cells. My current procedure is to use NiMH in anything that would cost $40 or more to replace, and alkaline in less expensive stuff, until I use of the alkaline cells. Going forward I am buying low self discharge NiMH only.

On a semi-related subject, if you have quartz watches with dead cells, replace the cells NOW, even if you do not frequently wear the watch. Keeping a dead cell in a watch can ruin the movement even if there is no visible leakage (ask me how I know this . . . ).


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 20, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

I had two remotes with leaking duracell alkalines.... one set (AAA) was dated 2009 the other 2011. Both remotes were hardly used the batteries I'm sure would have measured over 1.5v both remotes the batteries were in series in a line one set the leak luckily was between the two batteries the other at the very bottom spring of the remote which may make me have to take the remote apart to clean it. I put 2 energizer lithium AAs in the one remote and the other I will clean and leave batteries out of it till I have to use it. I used to think duracells leaked the least but I've had rayovacs go through a leaking phase then energizers were the culprits and now duracells.


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## Viking (Jan 20, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



BillSWPA said:


> On a semi-related subject, if you have quartz watches with dead cells, replace the cells NOW, even if you do not frequently wear the watch. Keeping a dead cell in a watch can ruin the movement even if there is no visible leakage (ask me how I know this . . . ).



A coin cell ( for a watch ) isn't just a coin cell.
Just like round cells there are different chemistries for these battery types too , including alkaline , lithium and some other chemistries.

Look at the coin cell. For instance if the starting letters are "LR" it's alkaline. 
If the starting letters are "CR" it's lithium , and if the the starting letters are "SR" it's silver oxide.


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## BillSWPA (Jan 20, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



Viking said:


> A coin cell ( for a watch ) isn't just a coin cell.
> Just like round cells there are different chemistries for these battery types too , including alkaline , lithium and some other chemistries.
> 
> Look at the coin cell. For instance if the starting letters are "LR" it's alkaline.
> If the starting letters are "CR" it's lithium , and if the the starting letters are "SR" it's silver oxide.



Good point.

Are silver oxide cells known to leak?


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## Viking (Jan 20, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

I actually don't know that.
Until recently I haven't really been focussing about the chemistry for coin cells that much. I just noticed some of them was leaking. I have some watches I'm very worried about too , so now I am beginning to pay more attention to the chemistry inside the cells.

Last time I had a leaking coin cell was about 6 months ago , and that was an alkaline for sure.
Unfortunately I haven't paid attention to the chemistry before.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



BillSWPA said:


> Good point.
> 
> Are silver oxide cells known to leak?



Silver oxide cells can leak, I've had some leak in the package before.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



Viking said:


> I actually don't know that.
> Until recently I haven't really been focussing about the chemistry for coin cells that much. I just noticed some of them was leaking. I have some watches I'm very worried about too , so now I am beginning to pay more attention to the chemistry inside the cells.
> 
> Last time I had a leaking coin cell was about 6 months ago , and that was an alkaline for sure.
> Unfortunately I haven't paid attention to the chemistry before.


Are you sure it was a "coin" cell? I don't recall any coin cell being alkaline at all they have all been lithium and never seen one leak enough to be a bother if at all.


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## uk_caver (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



Lynx_Arc said:


> Are you sure it was a "coin" cell?


Where (if anywhere) is the borderline between button and coin cells?


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## BillSWPA (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*

At least one major vendor lists button cells and coin cells in the same group, which includes silver oxide, alkaline, lithium, and zinc air (primarily for hearing aids).


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



uk_caver said:


> Where (if anywhere) is the borderline between button and coin cells?


coin cells tend to be the size of coins (dimensions) button cells typically don't have as large of a diameter.


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## Viking (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



Lynx_Arc said:


> Are you sure it was a "coin" cell? I don't recall any coin cell being alkaline at all they have all been lithium and never seen one leak enough to be a bother if at all.



well... whether the correct description is Button cells rather than coin cells I don't know , they are sold as both.

But the fact is some of these coin/button cells do leak , and can ruin watches and other kind of applications.
Only lately I have been focusing about the chemistry inside these cells , in an attempt to find out whether one of the chemistries are safe.

It's good to hear people's experiences with these cells as well , like yours with lithium.


----------



## BillSWPA (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



Viking said:


> But the fact is some of these coin/button cells do leak , and can ruin watches and other kind of applications.
> Only lately I have been focusing about the chemistry inside these cells , in an attempt to find out whether one of the chemistries are safe.



A worthwhile exercise in my opinion, although unfortunately limited to the extent that the different sizes, shapes, and potentially voltages may minimize or eliminate the possibility of substituting one chemistry for another. I would certainly be interested if it were possible to substitute a lithium cell or other cell that is unlikely to leak for an alkaline cell in a watch.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



Viking said:


> well... whether the correct description is Button cells rather than coin cells I don't know , they are sold as both.
> 
> But the fact is some of these coin/button cells do leak , and can ruin watches and other kind of applications.
> Only lately I have been focusing about the chemistry inside these cells , in an attempt to find out whether one of the chemistries are safe.
> ...


I've not heard of lithium 3v batteries leaking which are coin cells they do make button cells in alkaline and lithium the only way to know the difference is either testing the voltage if they aren't drained or looking up the numbers to see what they are. 
Most coin cells are 20xx about the size of a nickel and thickness related to the last 2 numbers (xx) such that 2032 are about twice as thick as 2016.


----------



## Viking (Jan 21, 2014)

*Re: The Alkaleak Thread*



BillSWPA said:


> A worthwhile exercise in my opinion, although unfortunately limited to the extent that the different sizes, shapes, and potentially voltages may minimize or eliminate the possibility of substituting one chemistry for another.



That's true. However in some cases you are able to substitute an alkaline cell with a silver oxide or the other way around.

But even in the many cases where there is no substitute , I would find it nice to know whether the aplication holds a safe ( if there is such ) or unsafe cell. Like in your example from your watch. It is pretty important to replace an unsafe cell as soon as possible.


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## marinemaster (Jan 22, 2014)

I had D alkaline leak not so much C alkaline. Mostly Energizer on the D and mostly Duracell on AA leaking. I had better luck with Sony AA. I never had one leak. Actually Sony gave the longest runtime of any alkaline AA. Same with Panasonic not leaking.


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## BriteGeek (Jan 24, 2014)

I stay well away from cheap alkalines. I had to give bad news to two people in the last month that their device was ruined by their batteries. Like Jerry Ahern, I prefer Duracell batteries. I can't remember the last time one of those leaked. Rayovac on the other hand have ruined more devices (in MY experience) than any other battery if left in for long periods of time. For AA I do prefer lithium for the more expensive devices (camera or ham radio), but will use a GOOD alkaline for the less expensive gear.


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## BillSWPA (Jan 24, 2014)

Every alkaline I have bought for many years was Duracell or Energizer. Therefore, when something has leaked, it has been one of these.


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## Dr. Mario (Sep 16, 2014)

I switched over to Nickel Metal Hydride AA / AAA batteries, and Lithium-ion batteries, both protected and unprotected. Definitely not going to look back anymore. Newer Leak-o-line batteries LOVE to leak, no matter what, nor how - it says a lot about their overall quality. Many appliances including high-powered flashlight (I still have ICON flashlight, old and banged up but damn reliable) eats lot of power, thus increasing the chance of leakage. It's a waste of money buying Leak-o-line batteries, really. Compare AA Leak-o-line batteries ($1 - 2 a pop - $5 a 4-AA blister) with $9 A123 18650 Lithium Iron-Phosphate cell that lasts 2,000 cycles. Which would you rather?


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## louie (Sep 16, 2014)

Arrgh! Bitten again! This time, another Costco Kirkland AA in my Braun travel clock. I was about to go on a trip and checked the battery even though the clock was working fine, and found it had pooped a bit, then seemed to have stopped. Only a little crystalline crud to wash out with water, then Deoxit. Not much corrosion.


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## Launch Mini (Sep 17, 2014)

In the last couple weeks, seems like most of my alkaline devices were discovered to have leaked.
My cabin radio, a remote control for the TV, my mouse & 2 spare batteries sitting in my desk drawer.


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## SaraAB87 (Sep 17, 2014)

I try to keep anything that sits for a long time, has low drain (remotes) or parasitic drain (Wii remotes) using something different besides alkaleaks. These types of devices seem to leak the most. If it's something I am using regularly with a moderate drain like my wireless mouse then I put alkaline in it, but my mouse uses those alkalines that have no other purpose since it can run it on one cell. The only reason I have alkaleaks is because I need them for my families things around the house.


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## LlF (Sep 20, 2014)

I brought a 100 pack dynex brand from futureshop/bestbuy, and used them in 30~ remotes, for a school. I haven't heard of any leakage. it was at least a year ago.


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## uk_caver (Jan 22, 2015)

While digging out a tape deck to use copying a load of old cassette tapes to PC, I found a couple of dust-covered remotes for my old hi-fi system in the corner of the lounge. I thought it was probably worth binning the cells since the remotes had been unused for years and the cells were certain to be dead.
I was pleasantly surprised to see that none of the cells (2xAA Duracell Procell in each remote) had leaked, especially given that all the cells had 2003 expiry dates, meaning they were probably from around 1998-99.

I just stuck a DMM on them, and got open circuit voltages for one pair of ~1.35v/cell, and for the other pair of over 1.5V/cell.
However, putting them on a 350mA load, that dropped straight away to ~0.8V/1.05V/cell respectively, declining at ~0.5mV/sec so effectively dead as expected, but that's fair enough for cells which may be almost as old as some forum members.

If only the drive belts on the tape deck had lasted as well - cost £20 for a new set, and looks like I'll have to take half the mechanism apart to fit them.


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## mcnair55 (Jan 22, 2015)

uk_caver said:


> While digging out a tape deck to use copying a load of old cassette tapes to PC, I found a couple of dust-covered remotes for my old hi-fi system in the corner of the lounge. I thought it was probably worth binning the cells since the remotes had been unused for years and the cells were certain to be dead.
> I was pleasantly surprised to see that none of the cells (2xAA Duracell Procell in each remote) had leaked, especially given that all the cells had 2003 expiry dates, meaning they were probably from around 1998-99.
> 
> 
> ...





Yes good old Alkaline batteries,I find the same with Procell.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 22, 2015)

mcnair55 said:


> Yes good old Alkaline batteries,I find the same with Procell.



Hey, mcnair, what happened to your old sig? It used to say, "Use alkalines, for better performance!" Now, you've downgraded it to, "Use alkalines,you know it makes sense."

What's next, "Don't use alkalines, you know they suck!"

Finally, you'll be right.


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## uk_caver (Jan 22, 2015)

Leakage-wise, I guess I had a mixed month.

I did find an old Zoom headtorch I was thinking of sticking on ebay (since there does seem to be some consistent demand for them), only to find the alkaline pack had leaked and somewhat corroded the connectors, which were already on non-standard white cable due to cable damage years go.
However, I'd just bought a job lot of ancient Zooms just to get the hard-shell battery boxes for other uses, so I swapped a cable out of one of those, fixing both the connector issue and the non-standard cable, which I'd been mulling over sorting out before selling anyway.

On the plus side, the box of old Zooms came with a free Alpdesign 3xAAA headtorch which didn't work, essentially down to corrosion from cell leakage causing failure of connection to the headset cable, but that was fairly easy to fix.

Finally, I was planning to fix an old shaver whose NiMH (or NiCd) cell had given up the ghost, but it had done so rather too completely - cell leakage had run along the tag, through the circuit board to the other side, and then preferentially travelled along multiple circuit traces for some distance, erasing the tracks and corroding various components as it went by.
I could fix it if I had a circuit diagram to identify the dead components, but without one it's effectively dead.

So, rechargeable leakage (combined with idleness stopping me having a look at it sooner) has essentially wrecked one device, while two cases of alkaline leakage caused me two little bits of work, one which I would probably have done anyway, and the other of which gained me yet another headtorch...

Deeply unrepresentative, for sure, but at least this month I seem to have been fairly lucky on the alkaline front.


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## mcnair55 (Jan 22, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Hey, mcnair, what happened to your old sig? It used to say, "Use alkalines, for better performance!" Now, you've downgraded it to, "Use alkalines,you know it makes sense."
> 
> What's next, "Don't use alkalines, you know they suck!"
> 
> Finally, you'll be right.



I change my sig on 4 forums mainly weekly lol.


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## MidnightDistortions (Jan 22, 2015)

Since the poll is closed, i'll do it this way.. 


1 in 250+ OR NONE at all have leaked (<0.25%)
Concerned enough about alkalines leaking to take more care in monitoring their use
I use NiMh (LSD) instead of alkalines now
I use other types of batteries instead of alkalines which are not listed above

I had at least 3 sets at least in my time which was already leaked but none were Energizer or Duracells. Most of them formed little white stuff after i toss them in a container for low drain devices but it was pretty rare that i had some leak. One of them leaked in a PlayStation 2 DVD remote and the other in a AAA MiniMaglite. Those were my only major leaks, the rest i caught right away and only was superficial and was mostly on the battery itself. I now keep all alkalines out of flashlights, tv remotes and anything else that doesn't get monitored on the regular basis. Usually i'll keep some crap cells in the remotes and keep Eneloops for flashlight usage. I will only use alkalines in flashlights when they are being used, once the light is done.. the batteries are kept out for monitoring.

I haven't bought any alkalines since 1999 when i first started getting into NiMH rechargeables. Surprisingly though my mom kept a bunch of alkalines in her drawer that i ended up obtaining after she moved to California. Most of them have been used in high drain devices, they now sit in a pile that gets used in my weather/clock station and sensor. Occasionally i'll use them in remotes but i take them out once i'm finished using them. All the dead ones gets shipped to the recycling center. I have not seen any of them swell up, some as old as from 1997 still work.


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