# Aspheric Mag Shootout (Beamshots Up) - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean vs. Mag66 & 625



## LuxLuthor (Jul 6, 2008)

There have been many versions of Aspheric Mags. This is one LED that I can say I really really love using. They are insanely bright in a small spot, and have a typical long LED run time. When you are walking in urban areas, you can prevent any spill from going into homes or cars. Nitro did a superb set of photos & comparisons to other types of lights in this thread.

There are also aspheric lenses that can be used with incan bulbs, but are much less effective. There are C/D Maglite size lenses and smaller. There are numerous types of LED's & lens combinations that have been tried. I am comparing:
* 1. Ledean's Aspherical 1-C Mag* (Cree Xre P-4, direct drive with AW C Li-Ion) which cost $90 (& $115 for second batch). It uses the Surplus Shed PL1072 52mm wide & 37mm Focal Length. No longer available.

*2. Mac's Aspherical 1-D Mag* (Cree Xre P-4, direct drive with AW 18650 Li-Ion) side switch version cost $110. Also uses the same PL1072 lens. No longer available.

* 3. **KD's new drop-in Cree Q5 & 52mm Aspheric lens* presented for $40 in this thread. _(It is cheaper if you buy 5; I received mine in 10 days)._ Combo package listed on KD's site here. As I will show below, the Cree is cleverly mounted on a heatsink pedestal that includes a boost-Buck current regulator that will accept voltage sources from 2.0 to 4.5V.
Since no assembly was required with Ledean's or Mac's, I will discuss in my next post what you get from KD, and how to use it. 

There were *two things that I didn't like* regarding Ledean/Mac versions. First was the lens sticks out the front, so you cannot stand the light upright on its bezel...leading to it rolling off a table. The second thing was the protruding glass lens is so bright that it distracts and interferes with your night vision.

I fixed both of these issues by getting a KIU VL Stainless Bezel (again for sale here) and grinding the edge of lens so it fits inside the recess lip of Mag head & adding a fatter R-32 O-Ring as shown here. Now I can stand it up without lens touching table, and most of distracting light is shielded.

Next post I will give more details and images, but here was the first comparison that had me puzzled until I figured it out. 

Thumbnail


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

While there was a slight difference between Mac & Ledean's versions (Mac's is a touch whiter and brighter--likely a better LED was selected), both of them were notably brighter and whiter than the KD setup. This surprised _(and disappointed)_ me because the mounted KD LED is an impressive accomplishment. _*

In a nutshell, the difference is entirely due to their lens.*_

OK, let's back up and see what you get in the KD $40 lens/Drop-in LED package. IMHO, the LED assembly is really worth more than the money I paid for it. First, let me say that I am not an LED Jockey, so I really don't know squat about what Cree Xre P4 or Cree Q5 actually means, or how they are supposed to compare. So let's look at some photos of this KD component.



 

 






 

 



As I said, there is no need to remove the Mag Switch, rather you just remove the Mag C/D Head and push this KD LED Assembly into the bulb holder (after removing Magswitch bulb retaining ring). 

Since the Mag bulb holder has a spring, the KD LED can slide up and down, and you will want to fix its position...one of two ways.
*First way* is to remove the Magswitch (remove rubber boot, and unscrew anchor set screw in push button stem with 5/64th's Allen Hex Wrench key). Remove round brass nut with same wrench in Mag bulb holder tube (in side slot) Drill a hole in plastic stem opposite slide slot where brass nut will be re-secured in rotated bulb holder tube. Replace Mag switch and install KD LED.

*Second way* is to find a retaining ring and insert around LED. This method assumes you are pushing the LED Heatsink all the way down. This is quick and works nicely as shown in pix below.


 

 




 



OK, so now I am not thrilled with this KD aspheric lens because even after grinding down some of the edge so it fits inside the lip of Mag head, it is longer than KIU bezel. Obviously, this could be resolved if and when KD comes out with their bezel, assuming it is longer than the KIU VL version. 

Before I discuss the lens in the next post, let's just look at how nice the LED assembly works out. It has what I think is a nice, bright LED...probably compares to the model that Mac/Ledean use...but not dramatically brighter. However, I love this assembly because it fits into Mac switch VERY easily, and with a perfect fit. A retaining ring holds it down, and you are done. 5 stars just for that design including the heatsink. I ran it for 30 minutes, and did not get the Mag head hot. Very very nice.

When compared to the Mac/Ledean "Direct Drive" design, this KD setup is superior because it has a boost buck regulator. You can supply a variety of battery sources that give a voltage between 2V and 4.5V

I popped this KD assembly on my Destructive Testing setup and took these two shots. I didn't want to go above 4.0V, because I don't want to kill the LED. In any case, these photos show how the KD boost/Buck regulator raises and lowers current delivered to the LED depending on the voltage source, so it averages 2.9 to 3 Watts (W=Volts x Amps). Nice to include this in the drop-in package.



 



OK, so that is the good news. Now in next post, I give KD the bad news. :devil:


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

When I took the comparison white wall shots, I assumed the "dirty" looking beam was perhaps due to my using a complete stock Mag 1D with 4 x AA cells. Since I am used to incans needing adequate current, I speculated that I may have had too much resistance in the tailcap, battery holder, and Mag switch....resulting in too little current/voltage being delivered to the KD LED. 

However, my destructive testing shown at end of above post resolved that question. I knew I was at least getting 2V & 2Amps from my setup. So I then assumed this must just be a cheap, inferior LED.

Not believing a lens could make this much difference, first thing I did was swap the SS PL-1072 lens with the new KD model in Mac's Aspheric. BAM! The lens is the problem. It makes Mac's LED setup also look dirty. Outside night sky performance of the KD LED & SS lens was now very close to the Ledean model.

Now I am happy because I have a bunch of extra SS PL-1072 lens left over that I can use with the KIU LED setup. In addition, you can still buy this quality lens from Melles Griot CVI (Old Part Number *01LAG123*) here _*

(Note: New MellesGriot-CVI part number: LAG-52.0-37.0-C )*_ It is worth the $28, and Surplus Shed stopped carrying these long ago. The problem with the KD lens is from some combination of the shading from the Anti-Reflective coating, inferior glass, different shape and focal length.

I measured the lenses with my calipers and took some photos.

 The *Surplus Shed PL-1072 (*_*Melles Griot-CVI #LAG-52.0-37.0-C **which is same as old MG #01LAG123)*_ has a focal length of *37mm*. Bottom edge *width *is *51.65mm*. Bottom *lip *protrudes away from glass lens globe by *only 0.25mm*. *Height *from top to bottom is *23.05mm*


 The *KD lens* is longer, and has a wider bottom lip. focal length is *34mm*. The bottom *width *is *52.05mm*. The *lip *protrudes *2.5mm* beyond base of glass lens globe. *Height *from top to bottom is *26.90mm*--almost 4mm longer...and why it still protrudes beyond my KIU even after grinding down the edge.
Next thing I see is how the color of the lens on white paper has a slight rose/amber/brown coloration vs. the Surplus Shed/MG models. I also notice there is a different refraction of the notepad lines--indicating a different focal length, and less clarity of lines. Some of this is captured in this final set of photos:



 

 




 



So in summary, *the KD LED Cree Q5 with Boost Buck Regulator that works superbly as a drop in module is a real winner.* The KD lens would likely be OK if you never saw a better quality lens setup, as it will still put out an impressive beam. However, it just does not compare in terms of optics and light transmission. The length issue may be resolved if KD does a longer bezel so you can then stand it up. If anyone wants to buy my 5 x KD lenses (one of which has edge ground), send me a PM. For me it is worth paying extra to get Melles Griot quality.


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## karlthev (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Typical superb review Lux, my hat is off to you!:twothumbs


Karl


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## olrac (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Fantastic post Lux :thumbsup:


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## LukeA (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

I did two KD aspherics and I liked the fit better after I bored the bulb holder out to 15/32in. I was worried about breaking the negative contact tab off before that.


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## rizky_p (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

wow a very detailed review, thanks. Never tought you would do an LED review 
Make me wonder how good 01LAG123 lens are since i am impressed with KD Lens already.


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## Swagg (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

So will the MG lens work without any other mods, just direct drop in?


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



Swagg said:


> So will the MG lens work without any other mods, just direct drop in?


Yes the MG (& KD) lenses work without any modding. However, both of them will protrude outside of stock Mag, or KIU's steel bezels. You may also need to find something like the thicker O-ring to hold lens securely in place.

Of course, I can grind away more of the KD lens base at an inward angle so it will fit deeper inside the Mag head's 3-4mm inside lip. That will allow me to stand it up using KIU bezel. Just have to rotate the head out more to get sharp edges focus. I may also shorten the Mag bulb holder stem to move LED lower down.

BTW, there is no point to using a reflector in these aspheric mag setups.



LukeA said:


> I did two KD aspherics and I liked the fit better after I bored the bulb holder out to 15/32in. I was worried about breaking the negative contact tab off before that.


 I consider their design as a perfect fit, and do not share your concern about the tab.



rizky_p said:


> wow a very detailed review, thanks. Never tought you would do an LED review
> Make me wonder how good 01LAG123 lens are since i am impressed with KD Lens already.


 Well as I have said many times, this is one of the only LED's I have found that I consider useful and practical enough to use outside. Its throw is profoundly powerful. I actually have about 20 LED lights, but other than the sleek, stainless steel Jetbeam clone that Erin sold over a year ago, I have not felt interested or compelled to review any other LED's.

As I said about the KD lens....I'm sure it would be awsome for most users if you didn't already have a SS or MG 52mm 37mm Focal Length, crystal clear lens for comparison. It's kind of like seeing a MaxaBeam for the first time compared to any other HID (except Ra's & the MegaRay).

In photography, binoculars, telescopes, etc. it is well known that the quality of a lens has a huge impact on the results. I don't know why the same concept initially eluded me when I saw KD lens beam.


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## kurni (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



LuxLuthor said:


>



Actually it's kinda good; you get natural from cool white LED 

Thanks LL; really good review.
Kurni


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



kurni said:


> Actually it's kinda good; you get natural from cool white LED
> 
> Thanks LL; really good review.
> Kurni



"Natural" ? I don't think I ever claimed these had natural colors. :green: It is just that I love the laser-like throw and defined edges. It is sort of like having a "Baby MaxaBeam" with sharp edges so you can control flood/spill from going into homes/cars while walking. I was more trying to discern betwen a quality, high transmissivity lens vs. the KD model.

If I had to choose between one of these aspherics and a nice incan hotwire, I would still go with the incan....but luckily, I don't have to choose only one! 

Thanks for your notes Kurni, and others.


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## tanasit (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



karlthev said:


> Typical superb review Lux, my hat is off to you!:twothumbs
> 
> 
> Karl


 
*DITTO...*

Many thanks,

Tanasit


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## BentHeadTX (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Thanks Lux!
I am going to purchase two of those lens for $28 a pop. I love me KD, but really want the maximum throw for a friend of mine that needs it. Thanks again!


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## PhantomPhoton (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Thanks, I've been wondering how they compare.
Now if only I could get myself a 75mm mag bezel assembly of the proper focal length. :devil:


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## Gunner12 (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

IIRC the KD drop-in runs at a 700 something mA to the LED, even though it has a approximately 30% increase in efficiency compare to the Cree XR-E P4, this might not be enough to offset the higher current to the P4 and a better lens.

Great review LuxLuthor!


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## rizky_p (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

My KD Dropin was DOA, so i remove the driver and run an external driver to it. Now it happily run at 1.2A. Not sure if anyone got the same QC problem. It definately brighter than standard KD driver. If my memory serve me right, Jerry said around 750ma to the LED.


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## Stereodude (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

The AR coating on the KD lens is probably partially to blame. Light that goes through an AR coating at any angle other than perpendicular will experience a color shift.


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## Nanomiser (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Talk about comprehensive; great review Lux!

Thanks :thumbsup:


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## saabluster (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Excellent work LuxLuthor. Are there any outdoor beamshots coming?


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



rizky_p said:


> My KD Dropin was DOA, so i remove the driver and run an external driver to it. Now it happily run at 1.2A. Not sure if anyone got the same QC problem. It definately brighter than standard KD driver. If my memory serve me right, Jerry said around 750ma to the LED.


You got me worried, and just tested the other 4, and all five worked fine. From the testing on my power supply, it is not just a case of a fixed 750mA that is being delivered to the LED. Rather it is 3 Watts....so at 1.5V 2,000mA is delivered. At 2V--1,500mA; 3V--1,000mA; 4V--750mA

If you have another driver that outputs a regulated 1.2A at 4V (4.8 Watts), then it may be brighter....but not knowing squat about LED's, I don't know what the tradeoff curve looks like in terms of heat dissipation and this brand of LED's life.



LuxLuthor said:


> LukeA said:
> 
> 
> > I did two KD aspherics and I liked the fit better after I bored the bulb holder out to 15/32in. I was worried about breaking the negative contact tab off before that.
> ...



In the process of testing all 5, I did discover one that was EXTREMELY tight....to the point where I decided to sand down this stem...so I now retract my initial comment to LukeA. Apparently, there is QC issue where they are not double checking milling tolerances. My apologies, Luke.

In the process, I noticed that the center post screws into the larger heatsink ring as shown below.







saabluster said:


> Excellent work LuxLuthor. Are there any outdoor beamshots coming?


Outdoor beamshots? Well there are some linked in my first post that Nitro did. I'll see if I can get some more too.


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## Gunner12 (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

White LEDs run at around 3.6v at 750 mA current, 1.2 amp could be around 3.7v. The driver itself also take power so the LED is receiving less then 3 watt of power.


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## DM51 (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Excellent work! Superb clear explanation, very interesting to see the differences in quality of the lenses.


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## toby_pra (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Thanks for this review...could you perhaps take some outdoor pictures too?oo:


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## hyperslug (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



LuxLuthor said:


> In addition, you can still buy this quality lens from Melles Griot (Part Number *01LAG123*) here. It is more expensive than the Surplus Shed, but IMHO, it is worth the $28.


Not just more expensive, 3.5x the cost (Surplus Shed PL-1072 is only $8). Is the performance difference really that significant? Do you have a comparable beamshot w/ the MG?

BTW, really good review, thanks.


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## Flipside (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



hyperslug said:


> Not just more expensive, 3.5x the cost (Surplus Shed PL-1072 is only $8). Is the performance difference really that significant?


 
:thinking: They're the same product... 

The cheap ones from the shed are gone, gone, gone. If you want this lens, you'll have to go the manufacturer and spend the big bucks...


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## DM51 (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Moving this thread to the Review section, with a redirect left here in H&M.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



hyperslug said:


> Not just more expensive, 3.5x the cost (Surplus Shed PL-1072 is only $8). Is the performance difference really that significant? Do you have a comparable beamshot w/ the MG?
> 
> BTW, really good review, thanks.



DM51, thanks for moving this. I forget about this Reviews section.

I think the Shed has been out of them for 8-12 months....whenever Ledean & Mac stopped making Aspheric Mags. Yes, they were an incredible $8, and some of us got a few at that price....but that's like talking about $1.50 for a gallon of gas now.

The real comparison in prices now should be between KD's lens alone for $20, or the MG version for $28. I'll see if I can get some outside beamshots between the two....but IMHO, it is a big difference once you have compared KD lens vs. SS/MG version. If you only ever had the KD lens, then it would look very impressive by itself. Also, when the Shed ran out, many in the past tried other 50mm & focal lengths, but none of them did as well as the SS/MG 52mm version.


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## Patriot (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Fantastic review Lux. You're threads are always models of perfection! This is the most helpful aspheric info that I've come across yet. Great idea with the lenses on the notebook paper too. Thank you! I've already PM'd people with a link to this thread. 




LuxLuthor said:


> If you have another driver that outputs a regulated 1.2A at 4V (4.8 Watts), then it may be brighter....but not knowing squat about LED's, I don't know what the tradeoff curve looks like in terms of heat dissipation and this brand of LED's life.




With that heatsink, I don't believe there would be any tradeoff issues. You could do just about anything you wanted to it in term of input. Mac is using a sink roughly the same mass in conjunction with the P7 where there is a lot more heat involved.


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## kurni (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



LuxLuthor said:


> Yes the MG (& KD) lenses work without any modding.



LL, I just received KD aspheric and I'm very happy with it. Your review made me curious about MG version but IIRC Ledean mentioned about bazel mod to fit the lens.

Would you mind comparing Ledean's bazel / head with stock bazel / head to double check if any mod has been performed please?

Thanks,
Kurni


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Kurni,

Yeah I forgot that for the SS or MG Lens, you have to Dremel down about 3mm of the stock bezel's inside lip that normally holds the O-ring for glass lens as shown in Mac's Green Aspheric vs. unmodded stock red bezel below:



 

 

 

The reason I ground the edge of the lens is ONLY so the lens fits deeper inside of Mag Head, without lens touching table allowing me to stand it up on KIU VL Bezel.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

OK beamshots....I almost feel like I should start a new thread, but I'll reduce these to thumbnail sizes. This really shows the difference between the lenses, and a few other lights I enjoy. It was high humidity tonight, which decreased throw....but neither aspheric could be seen visualizing farthest (850+ foot) treeline. The last 3 shots are using two Mags with 4s Li-Ion and AWR regulated HotDrivers set at 12.24V, and clearly shows FM's 2.5 Turbo vs. MOP


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## maxspeeds (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



LuxLuthor said:


>


 
Who let the cute baby sheep out of my barn? On a serious note, awesome shots Lux! Thanks for the pics!


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## kurni (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Beamshots are awesome but correct me if I'm wrong; the comparisons could be done better.

Ledean & Mac LED are P4; which is 4 levels below KD Q5 (see chart posted by wintermute). The argument that is being put forward is that MG lens is superior to KD. I'm not disputing that at all; from the beamshots I'm trying to judge by how much MG lens is superior to KD. Comparing KD lens using Ledean LED vs. MG lens using KD LED would provide an unfair advantage for MG lens. An ideal comparison would be KD lens using KD LED, and then MG lens using KD LED shining the same object.

I'm yet to get a sense of how much clearer MG lens than KD. Great beamshots BTW, I am really tempted to get MG lens now based on your reviews and beamshots. I have to find myself a diamond dremel bit :naughty:

Thanks for your hard work; without which I wouldn't know anything better than KD lens :twothumbs

Cheers,
Kurni


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 9, 2008)

Well there was very little difference between the MAC/Ledean/KD LED's if they were all used with MG lens. Also very little difference between them using KD lens. The way the KD boost-buck is setting the current to the LED, it results in a very close performance to the direct drive Mac/Ledean LED's. In other words, the KD lens crapifies all three LED's, with almost identical results as what you see here.


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## X_Marine (Jul 9, 2008)

Great review Lux, and greatly appreciated by many I'm sure. :thumbsup:

X/BillyD..


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## cat (Jul 9, 2008)

Very nice beamshots.
It shows how much better the MAG mods are than LED. (If you don't have to fit it in your pocket.)


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## Meltdown (Jul 9, 2008)

what a way to start the day! Thanks LuxLuthor, those beam shots are a thing of beauty. Can't wait for my throwmaster head.


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## Nos (Jul 9, 2008)

yeah finally beamshots

thanks for posting those lux :thumbsup:


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## kurni (Jul 9, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> In other words, the KD lens crapifies all three LED's, with almost identical results as what you see here.



English is my 2nd language; to me "crapifies something" sound like "makes crap out of something"  I really have to get that diamond dremel bit; would you suggest high or low rev to grind MG glass? I noticed your KD glass grind wasn't as smooth as MG; was it because KD glass was more brittle than MG? Am I right to assume that it's better to get smooth than coarse dremel bit; I'm really concerned about chipping the lens.

Thanks LL, great reviews as always :twothumbs
Kurni


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 9, 2008)

kurni said:


> English is my 2nd language; to me "crapifies something" sound like "makes crap out of something"  I really have to get that diamond dremel bit; would you suggest high or low rev to grind MG glass? I noticed your KD glass grind wasn't as smooth as MG; was it because KD glass was more brittle than MG? Am I right to assume that it's better to get smooth than coarse dremel bit; I'm really concerned about chipping the lens.
> 
> Thanks LL, great reviews as always :twothumbs
> Kurni



Well there are degrees of poetic license in the crapification compendium. I did not literally see Mr. Hankey dancing out from the KD lens, but many find his antics endearing. 

The diamond dremel bits are nothing expensive, in fact I got this very kit for only $10. They all have a similar fine/medium texture. I think the KD was similar in terms of grinding response, but may have been a little more fragile. There is a wider lip on the KD starting at 52.05mm needing to be reduced, vs. MG 51.65mm, so I may not have been as patient. It's not hard to do this. I put the Dremel on its highest "10" speed setting, and you just go slow, hardly putting any pressure on the glass lip. 

You can look at your progress and determine an even grinding pattern every 10-20 seconds, and when nearing completion, check the fit inside the upper, inside recessed lip of Mag head. 

Just be patient, keep the grinding angle away from the main glass lens "bulb," and rinse in water when done. Also, I would recommend doing this outside with a fan blowing the dust away from your face as you work (or use a small mask). Same with minor reduction of far glass/O-ring side of bezel edge--just go slow and use the right tip.


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## rizky_p (Jul 10, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Glad you "Five" are okay, KD(jerry) offers a free exchange for my Dead drop-in but i have to send it back which i didn't. 

750ma is probably about right since 3.6v *750ma is less than 3 watt since driver will eat some of the power. 

Somehow i knew a comparison with hotwire is on its way and i was right 

Great shots Lux.



LuxLuthor said:


> You got me worried, and just tested the other 4, and all five worked fine. From the testing on my power supply, it is not just a case of a fixed 750mA that is being delivered to the LED. Rather it is 3 Watts....so at 1.5V 2,000mA is delivered. At 2V--1,500mA; 3V--1,000mA; 4V--750mA
> 
> If you have another driver that outputs a regulated 1.2A at 4V (4.8 Watts), then it may be brighter....but not knowing squat about LED's, I don't know what the tradeoff curve looks like in terms of heat dissipation and this brand of LED's life.
> 
> ...


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## jabe1 (Jul 10, 2008)

Just got an aspheric from DX earlier this week, put it on a mag 2D LED, very nice, but I had to adjust the drop-in slightly into the bulb holder tube to get good focus. How far down the tube will the KD drop-in go?(The stock one is waaaay too weak). How far do you have the head threaded off?


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 11, 2008)

jabe1, look at my 2nd post, this pix in particular which shows that I pushed it down as far as it would go, and locked in the position with spring clip. Using the default KD lens (without lip ground down) then gives a sharp edge with head almost all the way tightened down (about 2/3 turn back out)

If I use the ground-down smaller lip diameter version of MG so I can stand it up with KIU VL bezel, then because the lens is seated farther inside the mag head lip, I either need to lower the KD LED deeper by removing some of the Magswitch stem and re-anchor with spring clip and/or twist out the focus to move the lens farther from the LED to get that razor sharp "waffle box."


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## sed6 (Jul 11, 2008)

Great review Lux :twothumbs

For information: those considering doing business with Ledean should first read this thread.


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## jabe1 (Jul 11, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> jabe1, look at my 2nd post, this pix in particular which shows that I pushed it down as far as it would go, and locked in the position with spring clip. Using the default KD lens (without lip ground down) then gives a sharp edge with head almost all the way tightened down (about 2/3 turn back out)
> 
> If I use the ground-down smaller lip diameter version of MG so I can stand it up with KIU VL bezel, then because the lens is seated farther inside the mag head lip, I either need to lower the KD LED deeper by removing some of the Magswitch stem and re-anchor with spring clip and/or twist out the focus to move the lens farther from the LED to get that razor sharp "waffle box."



LuxLuthor, Thanks much, I had noted the picture, but it's hard to ascertain exactly how far it sticks up past the holder. The lens from DX is only $5, and doesn't give that yellow tint, only 50mm but with another bezel o-ring surrounding it it centers, then a thicker o-ring beneath it and you're all set. 
Still, need more power.
Awesome review by the way... as usual.


----------



## toby_pra (Jul 11, 2008)

Great beamshots!

I think Mac's apheric has more spill and a nicer beam?!


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 11, 2008)

jabe1 said:


> LuxLuthor, Thanks much, I had noted the picture, but it's hard to ascertain exactly how far it sticks up past the holder. The lens from DX is only $5, and doesn't give that yellow tint, only 50mm but with another bezel o-ring surrounding it it centers, then a thicker o-ring beneath it and you're all set.
> Still, need more power.
> Awesome review by the way... as usual.



jabe1, I'm always game to see other aspheric lenses, especially if there is one for $5. *Can you give a link?* I'm initially suspicious of the quality just because of the differences I posted between SS/MG & KD's version, which also has a different focal length and shape.

*toby_pra* - Yeah, I agree Mac's LED is a little better quality, and in general he goes the extra mile looking for the better components, so I'm not surprised. 

However, since Mac/Ledean's version are both direct drive with 1 x Li-Ion (3.7 to 4.2V), it may also be a case of the KD driver limiting the mA's delivered to LED. I guess I could try removing the driver like rizky_p did and see how it compares with same direct drive Li-Ion.


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## jabe1 (Jul 11, 2008)

LuxLuthor, PM sent.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 11, 2008)

jabe1 said:


> LuxLuthor, PM sent.



Thanks for link

At that price, I'll order a couple and compare. I'm suspicious because of the cheap price, but also about the 18mm dimension. Not sure if that is the height or focal length, but it is not close to SS/MG or KD dimensions. Are you able to get a sharp LED focus like my wall shots?


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## jabe1 (Jul 11, 2008)

Yes, although not quite as clean. Some of this I'm attributing to the LED used in the stock Mag drop-in. I imagine the retaining ring is giving a small amount of reflection as well ( it needs to be down in the holder tube a little), a stronger Led may take care of this.
I'm ordering a few more to experiment with, and looking into dropping a hotlips way down the tube with a Q5 on it :devil:. Just takes time and $.


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## Patriot (Jul 12, 2008)

Awesome shots Lux. I really like the ones that end in the air against the dark three line. It makes it easy to see the differences between them. I'm always amazed at the different transmissive qualities between glass that essentially look very similar when you hold them in your hand and look at them. Once again, quality optics rule.


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## tricker (Jul 12, 2008)

nvm....i naut reed gud


the 625 is a god among mortals there


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## Meltdown (Jul 14, 2008)

I've now updated my KD Q5 drop in with the MG aspherical and I must say it's a thing of wonder to shine that around at night. This is the first light that has made my giggle on more than one dark night. Thanks Lux!


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## Nitro (Jul 14, 2008)

Great review, and beamshots Lux! :thumbsup:

You summed up the ASP pretty well, "Baby Maxabeam".

I also agree that the lack of sidespill (and wasted light) makes for a great spotlight in urban areas.


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## Fulgeo (Jul 19, 2008)

Hey LuxLuthor and Jabe1. I wanted to pipe in and say that I have both the KD and DX asperical lenses. I am able to get a sharp LED focus like your wall shots with both lenses. The DX lens has a bottom width of about 49.9mm, it has a lip of 2.5mm, and Height top to bottom of about 18.3mm! This is quite shorter than the KD lenses Height of 26.9mm. I also have the KD LED Q5 drop in which I used to make my two mods. The DX lens which sells for a little less than $5.00 seems to project a slightly smaller emitter projection when focused sharply. I would say about 20% smaller than the KD lens. Also it seems to be a bit brighter, but this could be because it is 20% smaller if you follow me. With the KD lens I have the KD LED Q5 drop in heat sink level with the top of the flashlight base. With the DX lens you must sink the drop in about 6mm lower than the top of the flashlight base. The DX lens is a little cruder in form and execution. It had a few small rim chips where as the KD was perfect with no blemeshes. Note that the few rim chips in the DX lens does not show when assembled and the flaws are not in the beam path. I would have to point this out to most people, I am a bit of a perfectionist. In summary I would say everyone should get one of the DX lenses because of the price. 

P.S. With my SSC P7 mod these asperical lenses work but you get a quad emitter projection. Makes a "+" cross haired kind of thing. I have also found that a good 250mm Focal length lens helps a P7 mod with a reflector. I think you have some of those lenses Lux. You might want to try them on a P7 mod. 




LuxLuthor said:


> Thanks for link
> 
> At that price, I'll order a couple and compare. I'm suspicious because of the cheap price, but also about the 18mm dimension. Not sure if that is the height or focal length, but it is not close to SS/MG or KD dimensions. Are you able to get a sharp LED focus like my wall shots?


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks for info, Fulgeo. I have been waiting for my order from DX, then I'll see how all 3 compare. I can get a sharp LED dispaly edge with KD focussed. That's not the issue. Rather it is the decreased output, clarity, brown tint, different focal length, etc. with KD (vs. SS/MG). I would be shocked if the $5 DX is anything to promote (vs. SS/MG).


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## Fulgeo (Jul 20, 2008)

The DX lens seems brighter. It could be because it projects a smaller emitter image and/or that since it is has a smaller Height and hence less glass for the photons to go thru it does not "soke" up as much output. I noticed that everything else being equal that the DX lens seems to throw up a "warmer" image. It has a slight yellow tint as compared to the whiter output (all though dimmer) of the KD lens. This seems to be counterintuitive since I am pretty sure there is a color shift happening with the DX lens and yet it is still brighter.:candle:

Anyway I went out last night here in Michigan and messed around with the two Cree Q5 Asperical mods with the KD and DX lenses. One really nice thing about the DX lens is that they way I have the heatsink set about 6mm below the top of the flash light body I get the ability get the sharp image throw property. I also have the ability to turn the head all the way down and get a clean spill with little or no artifacts. Just a big circle of clean light. Only down side is that I wish it was more like 400 lumens than the 200 lumens or so it is putting out.

In summary I ordered 5 more of the DX lenses, heck they give you a bit of a discount when you buy in quantity. I purchased 5 of them out the door for $23.15 USD. 

Happy Mods!



LuxLuthor said:


> Thanks for info, Fulgeo. I have been waiting for my order from DX, then I'll see how all 3 compare. I can get a sharp LED dispaly edge with KD focussed. That's not the issue. Rather it is the decreased output, clarity, brown tint, different focal length, etc. with KD (vs. SS/MG). I would be shocked if the $5 DX is anything to promote (vs. SS/MG).


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 23, 2008)

Got the DX lens today which is narrow enough in diameter to fit the Mag head inside lip...so doesn't need to be ground down to fit like I did with SS/MG lens. The DX lens is much thinner and so will also not touch the counter if stood up with KIU bezel. You need two thick O-Rings to have the KIU hold it down in place.

However the focal length is different from other lenses, and to get a sharp LED edge which displays with my ground MG/SS lens, you have to unscrew the head almost until it falls off. The only other solution will be to back the LED surface down at least 1/2" towards the switch....which is a big adjustment.

Once you get this DX lens positioned correctly from surface of LED, it has the same discolored & less accurate & less light transmission issues as the larger KD lens. For the great price, if you can adjust the LED position down, it would be preferred over the KD if you want to stand up the light on KIU bezel.

For those who have only see the KD or DX lenses and love their appearance, it still gives a nice throwing mag. Just don't order the MG lens to see the improvement, and you will remain happy.


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## jabe1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Thanks for the heads-up, figured at that price it couldn't compare. I'll have to order the MG lens and check it out. You now understand my querry regarding how deep into the tube will the KD drop-in go. Thanks again for the great review!


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## Patriot (Jul 23, 2008)

Fulgeo said:


> The DX lens seems brighter. It could be because it projects a smaller emitter image and/or that since it is has a smaller Height and hence less glass for the photons to go thru it does not "soke" up as much output. I noticed that everything else being equal that the DX lens seems to throw up a "warmer" image. It has a slight yellow tint as compared to the whiter output (all though dimmer) of the KD lens. This seems to be counterintuitive since I am pretty sure there is a color shift happening with the DX lens and yet it is still brighter.:candle:





The DX really isn't brighter though. If you look at any of the beamshots as the light is traveling though the atmosphere, the DX is always far less intense. The middle row, far right side pic is a good example.


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## Fulgeo (Jul 23, 2008)

I would have to humbly disagree,

My two mods use the KD Cree Q5 Drop in and the following is true. With the DX lens at 10 feet the image is noticably brighter and noticeably smaller as mentioned in my earlier post. At 100 yards the image is noticeably brighter and "not" as noticeably smaller. I also have less spill with the DX lens but there is not much spill to talk about with these lenses. With my mods the DX lens throws up a brighter emitter image.

I will probably purchase the MG lens because I love to play with objectives. I appreciate that LuxLuther has shared his results. Lux when I went over to MG's site I notice three other "contenders". Have you tried any other of MG's lens in the 33-37mm focal length range? Anyone?

BTW I use this http://www.zbattery.com/Maglite-D-Cell-Anti-Roll-Device to protect my DX lens. It gives me the ability to stand the mod in the upright position and does protect the lens a bit. It also blocks the undesirable spill. I am sure it is not as nice as KIU's fine bezel.





Patriot36 said:


> The DX really isn't brighter though. If you look at any of the beamshots as the light is traveling though the atmosphere, the DX is always far less intense. The middle row, far right side pic is a good example.


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## jabe1 (Jul 23, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> The DX really isn't brighter though. If you look at any of the beamshots as the light is traveling though the atmosphere, the DX is always far less intense. The middle row, far right side pic is a good example.



I believe you mean the KD lens, as there are no beamshots of the DX one.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 23, 2008)

If I get a chance, I'll try to take a few more shots so people can see the shape, beam appearance, and lens dimension differences including the DX.

Jabe, the KD & MG/SS are too wide to fit inside the bezel lip without grinding down the bottom edges. The only reason to consider grinding those down is to stand up with KIU bezel, and reduce some more of the distracting bright light of glass.

I know there are a few other close focal length lenses at MG, but to be honest, there is really no need or point. Some of them were tried back when Ledean and Mac were first making them, and the one I described reportedly had the best light transmissivity, focal length, and clarity. It may be the case that others tried from SS were cheaper quality glass, so if you want to try the more expensive MG models, go for it & let us know!

That other Z-Battery anti-roll add-on looks handy, but it does not say *how long it* is. Does it slip over the stock mag bezel? *Ideally *you want something long enough to block the glass side light, and have it "stand up" next to your other mags. Maybe glue two of those together?


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## Fulgeo (Jul 24, 2008)

Yes it slips over the stock mag bezel and is held in place with the tension of the plastic it is made out of. You might want to glue it is place for more retention. It does block the side light with the DX lens and it allows the flashlight to "stand up". It also works with the KD lens but wanted to say you would have to glue it is place to get reliable protection with the KD lens. Not as much of it slips over the bezel with the KD lens installed and the weight of the flashlight when stood up pushes it out of position and farther back. The price is right at $1.75 USD. :thumbsup: Thanks for the reply on the MG lenses.





LuxLuthor said:


> That other Z-Battery anti-roll add-on looks handy, but it does not say *how long it* is. Does it slip over the stock mag bezel? *Ideally *you want something long enough to block the glass side light, and have it "stand up" next to your other mags. Maybe glue two of those together?


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## Al Combs (Jul 25, 2008)

Fulgeo said:


> P.S. With my SSC P7 mod these asperical lenses work but you get a quad emitter projection. Makes a "+" cross haired kind of thing. I have also found that a good 250mm Focal length lens helps a P7 mod with a reflector. I think you have some of those lenses Lux. You might want to try them on a P7 mod.



Can I ask where you got the 250mm F.L. lens from? Does it cure the donut, or just improve it? Either way, it sounds like it's definitely worth some experimenting. I have a P7 in a 3D MagLite that could use some help.


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## Fulgeo (Jul 26, 2008)

There is a great site on the web called the SurplusShed. They sell many different types of lenses (and other useful stuff). Here is a link to their lens finder page.
http://www.surplusshed.com/lens.cfm
Here is a link to a good inexpensive lens that will work for a mag P7.
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/pl1106.html
Be aware that links to specific products go stale after a bit so in the future you might want to start with the lens finder page first. I mention this because in the future (weeks/months) someone might click the link above and try to order the pl1106 only for it to actually be out of stock.
Anyway any PCX lens of 250+ FL, 50-52mm diameter, with an edge thickness of 2-4mm will work. I really try and keep the edge thickness less than 3mm so the bezel on the flashlight head fits with less gap. Also PMN lenses work as well and imo are slightly more desirable than PCX. Also check out this thread for more information on lenses https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179681

My P7 mag mod was made using a KD bare emitter, cutdown stock plastic mag reflector, H22A P7 heatsink and the PL1106 lens mentioned above. I also hit the plastic reflector with two light spattering coats of clear enamel paint. This in effect changes it into a MOP reflector. As I tighten the head of my mag mod down I have two spots where I get a nice spotty usable solid circle of light. These two focus points have no donut effect. Just a solid juicy circle of light. I was initially disappointed with my P7 before I "spattered" the reflector and put the PCX lens on it. It seems that each one of the emitters on the P7 die had a slightly different tone. The "loving" mentioned above seemed to cure my problems and made me reappreciated the mod. I used a teal 3D mag for my mod and with the new 12000 mah NiMH rechargeable batteries available I have a cool running 700-800 lumen flashlight with a run time of 4+ hours. Heck with my 6 year old 4500 mah rechargeable NiMH batters I get 1.5+ hours of run time.




Al Combs said:


> Can I ask where you got the 250mm F.L. lens from? Does it cure the donut, or just improve it? Either way, it sounds like it's definitely worth some experimenting. I have a P7 in a 3D MagLite that could use some help.


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## Al Combs (Jul 26, 2008)

Fulgeo said:


> There is a great site on the web called the SurplusShed.
> 
> I also hit the plastic reflector with two light spattering coats of clear enamel paint. This in effect changes it into a MOP reflector.



Thanks for the lens link! Did you ever try to use just the lens with the stock Mag reflector? That is before you orange-peeled the surface. I had seen a post by a forum member recently saying after a home made orange peel on a P7 Mag, his lux meter said he dropped from about 30K down to 14K. Sorry I can't remember who said it. I know that sounds like a lot. But that percentage of loss only represents a 46% increase in spot size.

I find the donut kind of annoying. But I'm willing to live with it if the only fix is loss of throw. I suppose after I've had it a while longer, I'll just think of it as a matter of character. Thanks again.


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## Fulgeo (Jul 26, 2008)

Hmmm, I did not notice that much of a drop. I did notice thou that alot of artifacts were removed by orange peeling the surface. I did not put alot of clear enamel on my reflector. I did one quick pass about 8" above the reflector North to South. Then I did one quick pass West to East. I would also suspect the type of clear enamel. I figured the glossier the enamel the better. As for the donut, I am able to focus down my beam such that there is no donut present. My heatsink allows me to have the emitter about even with the top of the flashlight body. Are you saying you cannot get a donut free beam no matter how you adjust the head of the flashlight? If so reposition your heat sink. Play with it a bit you can find a sweet spot. I have found that the 250mm Focal Length lens will clean up beam about as much as orange peeling the reflector. Hey the lens only costs $5.00 USD from the SurplusShed, give it a try first and if you still want to clean up the beam some more you could then try and turn your reflector into a MOP. Good luck!




Al Combs said:


> Thanks for the lens link! Did you ever try to use just the lens with the stock Mag reflector? That is before you orange-peeled the surface. I had seen a post by a forum member recently saying after a home made orange peel on a P7 Mag, his lux meter said he dropped from about 30K down to 14K. Sorry I can't remember who said it. I know that sounds like a lot. But that percentage of loss only represents a 46% increase in spot size.
> 
> I find the donut kind of annoying. But I'm willing to live with it if the only fix is loss of throw. I suppose after I've had it a while longer, I'll just think of it as a matter of character. Thanks again.


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## Patriot (Jul 27, 2008)

jabe1 said:


> I believe you mean the KD lens, as there are no beamshots of the DX one.



Yes, sorry. I did mean the KD lens in Lux's picture comparisons.


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## Patriot (Jul 27, 2008)

Fulgeo said:


> I would have to humbly disagree,
> 
> My two mods use the KD Cree Q5 Drop in and the following is true. With the DX lens at 10 feet the image is noticably brighter and noticeably smaller as mentioned in my earlier post. At 100 yards the image is noticeably brighter and "not" as noticeably smaller. I also have less spill with the DX lens but there is not much spill to talk about with these lenses. With my mods the DX lens throws up a brighter emitter image.





I got mixed up and was referring the the KD pictures in Lux's comparisons. Since we don't have any beamshots of the DX compared to the KD, I have no reason to disagree with you since you're comparing both of them side by side. 

I'd love to see some beamshots though.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 27, 2008)

The KD/NX shots are coming.

This is a somewhat related subject since it involves a "Baby Aspheric." For using a single Surefire 123a cell, it kicks a pretty decent throw.

I saw some posts a while back using Surplus Shed PL1099 which is a 17mm diameter, 12mm focal length that others put on a small Fenix. So I got one of the new Fenix P2D Premium 100 with Luxeon Rebel LED that reportedly puts out 175 "Lumens" with a single 123a cell, and with some O-Ring spacing, got it pretty well focussed. 

Notice on this thumbnail what has appeared to me to be a defective phosphorous coating of the LED...but now that I think about the LED Jockey quest for the proper light color, *maybe they did this intentionally to balance the blue? Obviously you don't see this level of LED detail without an aspheric.*






I also got a Fenix P3D Premium 100 (uses 2 123a cells) and theoretically kicks up the "lumens" to 200 L. Also got a P3D-CE with Cree and on this cheesy white wall shot you can sort of tell the color differences. 





Although it doesn't really look green in person, this was using the Daytime ISO 100 settings.


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## Patriot (Jul 27, 2008)

Nice Lux!

One of the lights I was going to offer to send was the P3D Rebel but you already have one.

Although neither of mine are mounted behind 52mm aspherics on a maglite, you can still get a pretty good idea by holding the lens in front of either of those lights. The OP reflectors in the Fenix lights produce distracting reflector artifacts but still allow a good image of the die.

To verify whether or not you have a defective phosphor coating on your PD2, just hold it (without the PL1099) behind a PL1072 and see if you have the same result. Knowing you, you've probably already tried that though. 

Neither of my Rebels display the uneven color that your PD2 displays.


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## saabluster (Jul 28, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> Notice on this thumbnail what has appeared to me to be a defective phosphorous coating of the LED...but now that I think about the LED Jockey quest for the proper light color, *maybe they did this intentionally to balance the blue? Obviously you don't see this level of LED detail without an aspheric.*


I seriously doubt they did that on purpose. It is more likely that the die is delaminating do to faulty epoxy. It would then have a hot spot where this happens and heat up the phosphors reducing their effectiveness.


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## maxspeeds (Aug 1, 2008)

LuxLuthor, your beamshots with FM's 2.5" Throwmaster convinced me to purchase one to try out myself. This is an incan question for you regarding FM's 2.5" Throwmaster. In your opinion, what other bulbs perform well with this 2.5" reflector setup? Thanks in advance:twothumbs


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## Aircraft800 (Aug 5, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> the KD lens *crapifies* all three LED's


 
This part !!

You have me convinced to pay the $28 for the 01 LAG 123. I was a little nervous to order it because I believe they have the wrong picture with the item.


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## LukeA (Aug 5, 2008)

saabluster said:


> I seriously doubt they did that on purpose. It is more likely that the die is delaminating do to faulty epoxy. It would then have a hot spot where this happens and heat up the phosphors reducing their effectiveness.



Looks more like uneven phosphor deposition rather than die delamination.


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## Nanomiser (Aug 8, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



LuxLuthor said:


> Yes the MG (& KD) lenses work without any modding. However, both of them will protrude outside of stock Mag, or KIU's steel bezels. You may also need to find something like the thicker O-ring to hold lens securely in place.


 
PM sent


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## SafetyBob (Sep 3, 2008)

Is it worth it to put the "single-layer MgF2, visible" coating on the 01 LAG 123 lense? 

Bob E.


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## saabluster (Sep 4, 2008)

LukeA said:


> Looks more like uneven phosphor deposition rather than die delamination.


 I said that as Lumileds seems to have a very good process for applying the phospher as I've never seen a bad one from them. It is well known about their problem with the epoxy holding down the die. SSC also had this problem and Newbie documented it here . If you look just past a third of the way down you will see pictures he took of the die pulling up and how it looked while still in the package lit up. Looks pretty similar to me. No way to know for sure though without futher investigation.


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## Patriot (Sep 7, 2008)

SafetyBob said:


> Is it worth it to put the "single-layer MgF2, visible" coating on the 01 LAG 123 lense?
> 
> Bob E.





If you think that a 1.5% gain is worth it... I wouldn't bother with it myself. More of a gain can be made by moving to the next bin. R2's will be more readily available in a month or two.


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## jabe1 (Sep 11, 2008)

Just got the KD drop-in. Getting a ring around the die image! I'm guessing it's from the reflector ring on the Q5. Has anyone noticed this? Any solutions (I actually thought about dulling it with a sharpie!), or do I need an SSC P4 to get a clean beam?


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## LukeA (Sep 11, 2008)

saabluster said:


> I said that as Lumileds seems to have a very good process for applying the phospher as I've never seen a bad one from them. It is well known about their problem with the epoxy holding down the die. SSC also had this problem and Newbie documented it here . If you look just past a third of the way down you will see pictures he took of the die pulling up and how it looked while still in the package lit up. Looks pretty similar to me. No way to know for sure though without futher investigation.



I did a Rebel aspheric Mag some time ago and I noticed that it had an extremely similar pattern to this one, but in a fashion that couldn't easily be caused by die delamination. I never took any pictures, and, sadly have since ruined that emitter, but imagine it being similar to the one pictured but with two squares of blue in the yellowest region on the die. 

I have another Rebel light and I just held it up through an aspheric lens and it has the same pattern; one that would be extremely difficult to cause by die delamination. 

Keep in mind that the phosphor on these LEDs is unbelievably thin and that it only takes a tiny variation in that extremely thin layer to make the subtle but noticeable difference we're talking about here.


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## LukeA (Sep 11, 2008)

jabe1 said:


> Just got the KD drop-in. Getting a ring around the die image! I'm guessing it's from the reflector ring on the Q5. Has anyone noticed this? Any solutions (I actually thought about dulling it with a sharpie!), or do I need an SSC P4 to get a clean beam?



Well, it's not the reflective ring around the emitter, it's the metal part that holds up the dome. There's no way to get rid of that, and blacking out the other ring won't do anything. 

An SSC won't be nearly so effective as a Cree in directing light out the front. 

If you built an aspheric mag to get a smooth beam, you built the wrong light.


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## jabe1 (Sep 11, 2008)

It's the ring holding the dome that I was referring to. When looking down through the lens, you can see it very distinctly, so I figured it was the cause. Oh well... still a very fun light!, throws like crazy! Anyone thought about an XPE or XPC emitter? Might be fun!


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 31, 2008)

I started my review of the Saabluster DEFT in its own thread, because it is uniquely different from those previously discussed here. The linked DEFT thread does have some other comparison shots of above Aspherics & new DX lens against other lights.

*Suffice it to say that Saabluster's claim that his larger lens DEFT "Blows Away" all the above Mac/Ledean/KD/DX Mag Aspherics is accurate. *Honestly, I didn't expect the DEFT to really be as great as the hype, but it easily lights up the trees about 850 feet in the distance.


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## eyeeatingfish (Nov 1, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

What would happen if you put one of these lenses on an incandesant maglight or lets say a mag 85?


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 1, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



eyeeatingfish said:


> What would happen if you put one of these lenses on an incandesant maglight or lets say a mag 85?



Been there, done that. These higher magnifying type aspheric lenses have a VERY shallow surface/spot that would be focussed behind the lens...like the flat 2 dimensional surface of LED. The 3 dimensional incan filaments don't work. 

There are a few thinner, less magnifying type lenses with longer focal length that some of us have used with some narrowing/hotspot of beam...but it's not a real impressive effect with incans. Some have tried a wide variety of lenses to try and find one that works...in a nutshell, really not worth the effort.


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## eyeeatingfish (Nov 2, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*

Really? Im guessing then that they have tried it both with and without a reflector and with the reflector pointing outwards and inwards?

My car headlights have some type of focusing lens system thats used on some new cars, so it must be possible somehow.


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## kaimaikid (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



LuxLuthor said:


> Now I am happy because I have a bunch of extra SS PL-1072 lens left over that I can use with the KIU LED setup. In addition, you can still buy this quality lens from Melles Griot (Part Number *01LAG123*) here. It is more expensive than the Surplus Shed, but IMHO, it is worth the $28. The problem with the KD lens is from some combination of the shading from the Anti-Reflective coating, inferior glass, different shape and focal length.


 
I went to order this lens and the thieving buggers want $122US (shipping only) to send it to New Zealand, talk about extortion :mecry:


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## tx101 (Nov 14, 2008)

*Re: Aspheric Mag Shootout - Mac vs. KD vs. Ledean*



kaimaikid said:


> I went to order this lens and the thieving buggers want $122US (shipping only) to send it to New Zealand, talk about extortion :mecry:



Do what I am doing .... use Unforgiven's forwarding service


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## Robertesq1 (Jan 11, 2009)

So I have a simple question...

I have the Malkoff U2 bin Seoul Semiconductor P4 LED Drop-in module for a 3 D cell mag light. Can I purchase the Melles Griot Aspheric Lens and just replace the factory lens and up its throw??


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## YourTime (Feb 8, 2009)

Im wondering how would the Tiablo upgrade head (aspherical lense) would compete with these bad boy players.

Looking forward to see some comparison


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 10, 2009)

Update: If you didn't get one of Nanomiser's custom made longer bezels there is another short window open in his thread here.

These high quality bezels mount on Mag D or C and are now long enough that you can stand up the aspheric mag, and not have lens exposed which wipes out your night adapted vision. No more need to grind down edge like I did.

I also updated the link in first post for $28 01-LAG-123 lens to what is now Melles Griot CVI as they merged/bought CVI Lasers.


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## sparktastic (Mar 13, 2009)

IMHO, Aspherics are gimmicks with no real practical use other than for impressing ignorant people:nana:. You are simply collimating the Led's output into a single narrow beam and what good is that out in the 'real world'? You might as well just play with lasers..

Try walking down a dark trail at night with an aspheric flashlight! The beam is so narrow with so little spill, that if you point it at the ground you are likely to have an eye taken out by an overhanging branch that you didn't see, or if you point it further out in front, you are likely to trip over a log and break your ankle!! I played with the big fat, glass lenses too, but the novelty soon wore off... Give me a nice deep, smoooooth reflector any day!


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 14, 2009)

sparktastic said:


> IMHO, Aspherics are gimmicks with no real practical use other than for impressing ignorant people:nana:. You are simply collimating the Led's output into a single narrow beam and what good is that out in the 'real world'? You might as well just play with lasers..
> 
> Try walking down a dark trail at night with an aspheric flashlight! The beam is so narrow with so little spill, that if you point it at the ground you are likely to have an eye taken out by an overhanging branch that you didn't see, or if you point it further out in front, you are likely to trip over a log and break your ankle!! I played with the big fat, glass lenses too, but the novelty soon wore off... Give me a nice deep, smoooooth reflector any day!



Speaking of "impressing ignorant people," your narrow viewpoint fits right into that category, so congratulations on your underwhelming insights. :shakehead

Not that you are worth the bother, but one obvious practical use is dog walking in suburban paved areas with oncoming auto traffic, and significant populations of "punks," skunks, racoons, deer, and coyoyte. Having a far throwing but confined beam avoids endangering oncoming driver's adapted vision, or invading home owner's privacy, while precisely illuminating threatening/obnoxious wild animals at a preventable distances.

Believe it or not, most of us are actually capable of choosing various types of lights for other applications, such as hiking through wooded areas.


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## makapuu (Mar 14, 2009)

sparktastic said:


> IMHO, Aspherics are gimmicks with no real practical use other than for impressing ignorant people:nana:. You are simply collimating the Led's output into a single narrow beam and what good is that out in the 'real world'? You might as well just play with lasers..
> 
> Try walking down a dark trail at night with an aspheric flashlight! The beam is so narrow with so little spill, that if you point it at the ground you are likely to have an eye taken out by an overhanging branch that you didn't see, or if you point it further out in front, you are likely to trip over a log and break your ankle!! I played with the big fat, glass lenses too, but the novelty soon wore off... Give me a nice deep, smoooooth reflector any day!



Have you ever seen a aspheric unfocused for flood.


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## Nanomiser (Mar 17, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> Speaking of "impressing ignorant people," your narrow viewpoint fits right into that category, so congratulations on your underwhelming insights. :shakehead
> 
> Not that you are worth the bother, but one obvious practical use is dog walking in suburban paved areas with oncoming auto traffic, and significant populations of "punks," skunks, racoons, deer, and coyoyte. Having a far throwing but confined beam avoids endangering oncoming driver's adapted vision, or invading home owner's privacy, while precisely illuminating threatening/obnoxious wild animals at a preventable distances.
> 
> Believe it or not, most of us are actually capable of choosing various types of lights for other applications, such as hiking through wooded areas.


 

:laughing: Great reply! 

Thanks Lux for enlightening the dark one.


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## Patriot (Mar 17, 2009)

sparktastic said:


> IMHO, Aspherics are gimmicks with no real practical use other than for impressing ignorant people:nana:. You are simply collimating the Led's output into a single narrow beam and what good is that out in the 'real world'? You might as well just play with lasers..
> 
> Try walking down a dark trail at night with an aspheric flashlight! The beam is so narrow with so little spill, that if you point it at the ground you are likely to have an eye taken out by an overhanging branch that you didn't see, or if you point it further out in front, you are likely to trip over a log and break your ankle!! I played with the big fat, glass lenses too, but the novelty soon wore off... Give me a nice deep, smoooooth reflector any day!






Sparktastic, you seem to ignore some very obvious uses for a light that throws a focused narrow beam while resting on the presupposition than all lights are used for the same purpose. You also ignore the fact that if a person only wanted to use his aspheric as a play toy with no practical application, that's allowed here at CPF too. What makes walking down a dark trail any more important than sitting on the back porch lighting up wildlife with a far throwing aspheric? Just the other night I was at the park walking around with a wide angle headlamp on my head and an aspheric in my hand. The combination provided a wider field of view and more throw than any single LED light of similar output. 

You may personally have trouble thinking outside of the box but don't suggest that all of the impressed members posting in this thread are "ignorant" when in fact you're the prime example of it. A word of advice, spend more than a week at CPF reading and learning before attacking members for what you think they don't know.


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## Norm (Mar 17, 2009)

makapuu said:


> Have you ever seen a aspheric unfocused for flood.


The flood from an unfocused aspheric is amazing no hot spot just a very wide circle of even light. Very useful, I don't think sparktastic has ever had an aspheric mag in his hand.
Norm


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## bshanahan14rulz (Mar 17, 2009)

awesome pictures in this thread!

A few things, 

First, in the OP, the beamshots showing the shape of the emitters. They are all XR-E. How come the first one has three dim bars in the middle of the three light bars while the second two doesn't?

Next, Luxluthor's image of the rebel die projected that people thought could be delaminating. I believe that is simply an artifact of the lens not being perfectly parallel and/or centered to the emitter, causing one edge to shift blue while the other shifts orange. I see this often on projector headlamps, the top cutoff will be sharp but blue while the foreground cutoff will be sharp and orange.

Which brings me to my third comment involving automotive projectors. They feature a parabolic or paraboloid reflector with an aspheric lens in front. This lens seems to be focused on the cutoff shield. Perhaps if you can figure out the right kind of reflector to pair the lens with, you can get it to work better with the asperic lens to create an amazing flood flashlight.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 17, 2009)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> awesome pictures in this thread!
> 
> A few things,
> 
> First, in the OP, the beamshots showing the shape of the emitters. They are all XR-E. How come the first one has three dim bars in the middle of the three light bars while the second two doesn't?



Thanks!

I believe it is a lesser quality/variation in LED bins. The precisely focussed aspheric magnifies die aspects you would never ordinarily see. The Ledean XR-E has those shadow vertical bars no matter which aspheric lens I tried with it. 

Mac has always had a high quality modding reputation, so it would not surprise me if he had a higher LED quality source. The KD is a different Q5 LED...again variations in manufacturing.



bshanahan14rulz said:


> Next, Luxluthor's image of the rebel die projected that people thought could be delaminating. I believe that is simply an artifact of the lens not being perfectly parallel and/or centered to the emitter, causing one edge to shift blue while the other shifts orange. I see this often on projector headlamps, the top cutoff will be sharp but blue while the foreground cutoff will be sharp and orange.



A good thought, but I actually do think this is something related to the LED die. I completely removed the bezel, & lens assembly a number of times, with slight alterations in final lens placement, but the appearance of the earlier coloration defect is always the same.

I got out my cheapie EBay digital microscope, and took these images. I can't see anything that correlates with the white wall defect, but they are interesting to look at. (Click on thumbnails)



 





bshanahan14rulz said:


> Which brings me to my third comment involving automotive projectors. They feature a parabolic or paraboloid reflector with an aspheric lens in front. This lens seems to be focused on the cutoff shield. Perhaps if you can figure out the right kind of reflector to pair the lens with, you can get it to work better with the asperic lens to create an amazing flood flashlight.



You may be right about that option...but honestly, I want the precise, far throwing, projection. I have tons of flood lights for those occasions. Thanks for info.


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## jabe1 (Mar 18, 2009)

sparktastic said:


> IMHO, Aspherics are gimmicks with no real practical use other than for impressing ignorant people:nana:. You are simply collimating the Led's output into a single narrow beam and what good is that out in the 'real world'? You might as well just play with lasers..
> 
> Try walking down a dark trail at night with an aspheric flashlight! The beam is so narrow with so little spill, that if you point it at the ground you are likely to have an eye taken out by an overhanging branch that you didn't see, or if you point it further out in front, you are likely to trip over a log and break your ankle!! I played with the big fat, glass lenses too, but the novelty soon wore off... Give me a nice deep, smoooooth reflector any day!



I disagree wholeheartedly. 
1) defocused, an aspheric gives a beautiful large floody beam.
2)I have found that for spotting they can't be beat. 

This winter I found myself helping a landscaper friend of mine out of a jam, plowing snow at 3AM with only a list of customers addresses. My mag aspheric allowed me to illuminate only the house address, and not disturb any sleeping, good paying clients! My ROPs would have caused quite a stir.I was glad to have it, and now my friend wants one!


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## Benson (Mar 18, 2009)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> Which brings me to my third comment involving automotive projectors. They feature a parabolic or paraboloid reflector with an aspheric lens in front. This lens seems to be focused on the cutoff shield. Perhaps if you can figure out the right kind of reflector to pair the lens with, you can get it to work better with the asperic lens to create an amazing flood flashlight.


That's an elliptical reflector, I'm pretty sure -- same idea as spotlights for stage lighting. A projector assembly like that does have it's advantages (most importantly, the ability to insert bat-shaped cutouts in the focal plane...), but typically seems to come out longer from the emitter to the front of the lens than either a reflector or aspheric design (at the same diameter). That, with the low availability (that I've seen) of elliptical reflectors makes it a lot less handy for mods.

The throw vs flood is not necessarily an issue -- you can build an elliptical/lens train to focus quite tightly, or even a zoomable one; the actual limit of throw would be roughly the same as aspherics or reflectors, because it's still limited by aperture and surface brightness.

Oh, and a curious happening, involving an aspheric and a (parabolic) reflector: I was modding a yellow plastic "Industrial" 2D hotwire, and having trouble focusing it. I got the bulb as deep in the reflector as I could (subject to 3xC Li-ion hard against the tailcap), and still wound up with an _exaggerated_ version of a Mag on flood, donut hole the size of a barn. Turns out, though, if you drop a DX aspheric in the front, with the reflector still in, you get a nice smooth circle from the bulb, and perfectly matched to the edge of that, the projection of the reflector. If the reflector hadn't been OP, it would have been the best 120+ degree flood I've ever seen; as it was, it was quite usable, but the stipple in the outer portion of the beam was very annoying. Totally different than a headlight projector, but it does work. (I'll be documenting this sleeper light, when I get it done; right now it awaits a new host -- I melted out the slide switch while soldering on it this morning. )


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## BentHeadTX (Mar 18, 2009)

I have an Aspheric Mag and you're right, it is a lot of fun to play with. I admit it, I have fun with flashlights. However, it has a much more interesting reason to be besides me scaring the neighbors...ever light up someone from 500 meters away? They run! 

If you point it straight at their eyes, they stop! (generally covering their face in shock) Now ponder a 2D Mag aspheric with heavy NiMH D cells and a heavy stainless steel bezel smacking upside the cranium? My HA-III coated Mag was built for a LEO friend of mine, he will get to play with it in June. He will use it to spot gang members in one area by a river with one way in/one way out. The piece of land is about 400 meters in length and he prefers NOT to roam through there with his Streamlight. 

I have a spare head with the Mag reflector, strike bezel and AR glass to allow flexibility.


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## makapuu (Mar 20, 2009)

BentHeadTX said:


> ...ever light up someone from 500 meters away? They run!
> 
> If you point it straight at their eyes, they stop! (generally covering their face in shock)


 
I thought I was the only one having fun doing that:laughing::devil:


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## Nitro (Mar 20, 2009)

sparktastic said:


> IMHO, Aspherics are gimmicks with no real practical use other than for impressing ignorant people:nana:. You are simply collimating the Led's output into a single narrow beam and what good is that out in the 'real world'? You might as well just play with lasers..
> 
> Try walking down a dark trail at night with an aspheric flashlight! The beam is so narrow with so little spill, that if you point it at the ground you are likely to have an eye taken out by an overhanging branch that you didn't see, or if you point it further out in front, you are likely to trip over a log and break your ankle!! I played with the big fat, glass lenses too, but the novelty soon wore off... Give me a nice deep, smoooooth reflector any day!


With an ASP you can shine it out of a window, without blinding yourself by the reflection. For the same reason they are better in fog than a reflector.

ASP's are much more efficient spotlights. You can illuminate something at a distance with much less power than a conventional spotlight. Check out my *Got Throw* thread. When it comes to Throw, the ASP blows away all the reflector lights, except the very large ones. Also, an ASP won't blind you when you're trying to see that distant object.

As was mentioned, in an urban setting ASP's are very useful. I found my neighbor's little dog with an ASP, while walking the streets. Any other light would have blinded traffic, causing me to keep switching it on and off.

Instead of making a statement such as, "IMHO, Aspherics are gimmicks with no real practical use other than for impressing ignorant people", you might want to ask a question such as, "What practical purpose do Aspherics have?". Maybe you might learn something from us "Ignorant People".


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