# Moby **** Quad-P7, FM3H-2, tri-Shark/pot



## LED Zeppelin (Aug 19, 2008)

*Hardware:*

- Fivemega FM3H-2 3" head
- FM 6 X 17670 tube and battery holder
- (4) Seoul P7 CSXOI
- (4) McR27XR reflectors 
- (6) 17670 Li-ion cells, 2 series/3 parallel for 7.4 V operation
- (3) parallel Shark drivers sharing one dimming pot, all driving the string of four P7s
- (3) machined aluminum Shark heatsinks
- (1) 20K ohm logarithmic pot
- Custom pot knob w/ trit slot
- CNC heatsink, milled from 2 3/4" round 6061 aluminum. The inside contour of the head was mapped and the heatsink machined for a full-contact fit. Face features reflector seats that space the reflectors off the LEDs for proper focus and add them to the thermal mass.

*Details:*

- Current pot-adjustable from 0 - 2.7A
- Vf of LED strings: 13.6V V @ 3A
- Runtime approx. 40 min. on hi w/ 1600 mAh cells


















White wall beamshot, ISO200, 1/25 sec, F5.6:


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## darkzero (Aug 19, 2008)

Wow! That has to be one of the cleanest heatsinks I have ever seen! On top of that this is one of the cleanest builds I have seen yet if not the cleanest by far! Just how I like them! Absolutely stunning! :twothumbs

Where is everyone getting these CSXO*H*s?


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## Britelumens (Aug 19, 2008)

Great modding work! :twothumbs

With regards,
Jo @ Britelumens


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## LED Zeppelin (Aug 19, 2008)

darkzero said:


> Where is everyone getting these CSXO*H*s?



Oops, sorry, I stand corrected, bin is actually CSXOI.


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## easilyled (Aug 19, 2008)

I'm in awe. One fantastic build followed by another.
This one must exceed 3000 lumens on high.
It was only fantasy to have this much output at this much runtime in such a compact form factor until very recently.


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## DaFABRICATA (Aug 19, 2008)

HOLY CLEAN BUILD!!!

AMAZING JOB!!!

I have a KT4 with 3 P7's and I thought THAT was bright! I can Only Imagine what THIS BEASTY looks like lit up!!!


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## Mirage_Man (Aug 19, 2008)

Amazing build Dennis. :bow:

Wow, that heat sink is awesome! I know a lot of time went into that.


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## Aircraft800 (Aug 19, 2008)

WOW! I Was Waiting For Something BIG From You, But You Exceeded My Expectations Again!

Great work Master Dennis!! Your Avatar should say "Master Builder", I'm putting in a request to the mods! :twothumbs

Unbelievable heatsink! That alone must have at least 30h into it, so at the going labor rate, that's a $3000 build!!

Awesome!


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## dutchguy2 (Aug 19, 2008)

Please stop Dennis (just kidding). You make me want more and more.

Great work :twothumbs


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## Joseph Milton (Aug 19, 2008)

I can''t echo what the other lumen-heads are saying about your Moby. WOW! Spectacular. What a rocket!


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## starfiretoo (Aug 19, 2008)

:goodjob: Great beam shot:thumbsup: Looks like the hot spot cleaned up well with the dies 90 degrees out. So How does it compare to the Trinity?
Can't wait to see the anodized SF2 version


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## LED Zeppelin (Aug 19, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words guys.

The quad-P7 beam is more floody than the Cree version, but with noticeably more output especially in the increased spill. In that respect it is similar to the Trinity, but the Trinity beam is much wider with more coverage. The Cree still throws the best by focusing the majority of the output into a smaller area.

Single P7s in a McR27XR do have a dim center spot, and the quad almost eliminates it. But on a white wall there is still a slight hint of a donut. I can see it, but my wife can't. If you look at the beamshot you might be able to pick it out. In real use it cannot be detected.

Heat output is as expected, in between the 9 X Cree and Trinity. With the low thermal resistance, the head warms up quickly but the LED temp is not much hotter than the head. Center pot detent is 1.4A, which is comfortable for extended runs while remaining bright.


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## tdurand (Aug 19, 2008)

Sweet build Dennis. That heatsink is nice. I like the embellishment too. My Moby Quad might have to make a trip back to get it's sink tattooed. 

Your comment on the "full-contact" head-to-heatsink barrier, did you use any thermal compound between the two? Other then making it difficult to seperate, would that help? Did you use any around the bottom curve of the reflectors as they look to be mapped and "full-contact" as well?

Thanks for sharing the pics
T
:thumbsup:


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## LED Zeppelin (Aug 19, 2008)

T, I used a full coat of compound between the head, sink, and tube. 

The reflector bottoms are a simple 45 degree cone, and a slip-fit into the sink. I didn't use any compond on the reflectors.


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## toby_pra (Aug 20, 2008)

Why dont you produce a little batch from these monster's ? 

At leat open an interest thread...


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## LED Zeppelin (Aug 20, 2008)

Toby,

More sinks are being cut that will be sent out for anodizing. I built this light as a proof-of-concept to test fit and focus. 

I'll have about 4 extras sinks to offer for those who want to build their own, and there will be some built lights as well.

I could start an interest thread if requested, but I don't want people to feel obligated to buy if they've posted interest but have changed their mind. It's an expensive build no matter how you look at it.

But feel free to PM me and reserve a sink if that's what you are looking for. I don't know the final price, but likely in line with my former MD sinks, about $100 or slightly more. 

I doubt there is a demand for much more than 4 loose sinks bearing in mind turn-key lights will be available. But if there is, now is the time to speak up so they can all be sent out for HA at the same time.

As far as monster lights go, I will say it's an easy build. Although the McR27XR is perhaps not the ideal P7 reflector, it works well enough and requires no modding whatsoever. All sink dimensions are such that tube, sink, head, lens, and bezel align properly by simply screwing them together. No epoxy is necessary on the head, sink, or tube; everything jams together. A strap wrench or two is all that is required to disassemble the light for updating or remodding. Soldering is easy as well, simply flatten out the P7 leads and solder to the big tabs. The rear shoulder of the sink that enters the tube has a couple stepped pockets to receive different size boards including the D2DIM.

It is an expensive sink, but I hope the value is realized in ease of assembly and perfect, error-free fit. 

I hope there isn't anyone out there who doesn't realize that these are show lights, not very practical at all. The riduculous heat they generate that cannot be dissipated naturally is matched only by the ridiculous brightness. Running at 1.5 A is acceptable, but how many of us have the discipline. Actually, come to think of it, it is indeed the light all of us need.


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## toby_pra (Aug 20, 2008)

Thanks for the update Led...:twothumbs

I think noone of us has the discipline to drive at only 1.5A! :naughty:


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## monkeyboy (Aug 20, 2008)

Hello LED Zeppelin 

I'm interested in one of the loose heatsinks. PM sent.


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## GhostReaction (Aug 20, 2008)

Smokin! nice piece of heat sinking.


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## beetleguise (Aug 20, 2008)

Dude, you need to mass produce these babies. You could patent led zep lights and sell them at cabellas to people who need the best of all the manly toys (like me!).


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## LED Zeppelin (Aug 20, 2008)

I'd like to be able to provide the personalized engraving for those interested, so I started an interest thread here.


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## wquiles (Aug 20, 2008)

Freaking awesome - good job dude! Love the custom CNC heatsink


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## glyphin (Aug 22, 2008)

Very impressive. How much do you think a full build like yours would cost? Parts total vs. turnkey?


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## LED Zeppelin (Aug 22, 2008)

glyphin,

The subject light is for sale in this thread. It's admittedly a convoluted thread that began with the first incarnation of this host - a 9 X Cree light. I remodded the light, and modded the thread. I guess I should post a separate thread for it.

The tri-Shark configuration works well and is regulated, but time consuming and costly to build, thus the high price.

A more affordable build is in the Ellie II 4-cell running direct drive with dimming controlled by a D2DIM board. Not regulated, but li-ions have a relatively flat discharge curve. I haven't built one yet, but it should be way less than the 8-10 hrs in the 9 X Cree build. On paper the D2DIM/Ellie II build components seem made for each other and should function in harmony. I plan on building one and posting a tutorial for builders using this sink. Then I'll be able to measure currents and whatnot to verify the performance.

Parts alone including an FM3 head, Ellie II tube, heatsink, D2DIM, LEDs, and reflectors, is ~$600 or so. The tri-Shark verison was over $700 in parts. I know, it's painful to look at those numbers in black and white. It was hard enough to think about and type them.

Mac is going to build up some complete lights for sale with this heatsink and hosts he has, can't argue with his work. I have no idea what the price will be but considering the parts cost I know it's going to be a deal. If you're not one to enjoy the trials and tribulations of building such a light, you might consider one from him.


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## Bimmerboy (Aug 22, 2008)

Super nice build, to say the least, LZ.

Nonetheless, you can likely guess why this thread is, at least, somewhat worthless.  

BTW, are the bases isolated by anodize, epoxy, or both?


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## LED Zeppelin (Aug 22, 2008)

Bimmerboy, this prototype sink is bare. I isolated the slugs with epoxy and teenie slivers of Kapton tape on opposing sides as a spacer. 

The production sinks will be HA black with epoxy as adhesive.


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## GhostReaction (Aug 22, 2008)

LED Zeppelin said:


> A more affordable build is in the Ellie II 4-cell running direct drive with dimming controlled by a D2DIM board. Not regulated, but li-ions have a relatively flat discharge curve. I haven't built one yet, but it should be way less than the 8-10 hrs in the 9 X Cree build. On paper the D2DIM/Ellie II build components seem made for each other and should function in harmony. I plan on building one and posting a tutorial for builders using this sink. Then I'll be able to measure currents and whatnot to verify the performance.



Ok LZ I get the que. Logging off and heading to the post office now. You can use mine for the tutorial and testing.


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## LED Zeppelin (Aug 23, 2008)

GR, thanks for being the guinea pig!

I'll build it up as soon as the sinks get back from the anodizer.


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## Changchung (Aug 24, 2008)

Amazing job...

Can a heatsink build to fit in a [email protected] head like this one??? Can you make it???


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## LED Zeppelin (Aug 24, 2008)

Changchung said:


> Amazing job...
> 
> Can a heatsink build to fit in a [email protected] head like this one??? Can you make it???


It would certainly be possible, but small runs would likely be cost prohibitive. I'd need to know what and how many LEDs, and which reflector.

A more cost effective way would be to modify a PXR19 by adding a disc to the top. I know the Shoppe is out, but I have some that have the faces turned down flat for such a mod. If you need one send me a PM.


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## Changchung (Sep 25, 2008)

LED Zeppelin said:


> It would certainly be possible, but small runs would likely be cost prohibitive. I'd need to know what and how many LEDs, and which reflector.
> 
> A more cost effective way would be to modify a PXR19 by adding a disc to the top. I know the Shoppe is out, but I have some that have the faces turned down flat for such a mod. If you need one send me a PM.



I will thinking in use the same reflector of you, 27, and 4 x P7... If you can do it what will be the cost???


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## LED Zeppelin (Sep 25, 2008)

Changchung,

4 McR27XR will not fit in a standard head, only one can fit.
You could use 4 modified McR20s, though boring the head might be necessary. There will be precious little mass to absorb the heat before the light overheats.

You will need some consideration as to the cells as well, ideally some solution around 9-10 V, 5-6 A if you use the same tri-Shark regulation.

Assuming you have the host and cells you are still looking at roughly $300 in parts alone, not including labor and machining.


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## Changchung (Sep 26, 2008)

LED Zeppelin said:


> Changchung,
> 
> 4 McR27XR will not fit in a standard head, only one can fit.
> You could use 4 modified McR20s, though boring the head might be necessary. There will be precious little mass to absorb the heat before the light overheats.
> ...



Hi, well, I was thinking in buy or try to made here a head will fit in the Mag body, bigher of course to fit in there the 4 P7 with the 27 reflectors, with the most aluminium the head can have, I was reading about the big heat problem with this mod, I want to use a dimmer control and use the full power just when need it, about the batteries, I have a Mag 2D, so, I think in use a2D 6 AA adapter in serie but with 14500 900 mAh and the four Leds in serie... I have to mode too the switch. If you can make the head, with the heatsink what will be the cost? Can I paid with wire tranfer??? Thanks for your time...


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## LED Zeppelin (Sep 26, 2008)

Changchung,

To make you one custom head would be prohibitively expensive. Many more times the cost of an FM3 head. I do not have a lathe, I work with a CNC machinist, so you would have to finance design time, programming time, machining time as well as lens, O-rings, etc. This is also true of any custom sink, unless it is a simple modification to an existing design of mine.

Also, I am not aware of a buck converter that will work with your planned configuration. Wayne is making a Shark down converter, but even when ready I don't think 6 X 14500 will provide enough current.

By far the most economical quad-P7 build is using an FM Ellie II tube, FM3 head, 4 X 18650, a D2DIM board, and my heatsink. Mac will offer some built ones, or you can build your own. I can't imagine a way to build a quality custom dimmable quad-P7 for less unless you machine the parts yourself.


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## Changchung (Sep 26, 2008)

LED Zeppelin said:


> Changchung,
> 
> To make you one custom head would be prohibitively expensive. Many more times the cost of an FM3 head. I do not have a lathe, I work with a CNC machinist, so you would have to finance design time, programming time, machining time as well as lens, O-rings, etc. This is also true of any custom sink, unless it is a simple modification to an existing design of mine.
> 
> ...



I am searching Mac´s post... I think I have to forget my idea about the mag body, do you have a Fm ellie II tube, FM3 head and the 4 X 18650 holster??? I remember some costs, but maybe you can sell me everything, but Leds, reflectors and drivers...

I find a Mac but I think is not, do you mean Macmod? I am not sure...


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## LED Zeppelin (Sep 26, 2008)

Changchung, I don't have any extra hosts for sale.

The Ellie II tubes w/ holders are available here, and the FM3V-2 heads here. There are only chrome heads left, but they do come up for sale in the B/S/T forum in other finishes.

With these you would need my heatsink, which I have a couple extras available here, and the LEDs, reflectors, and D2DIM driver. When my heatsinks are back from anodizing, I plan to post a tutorial build thread which involves modding the switch to momentary, mounting and wiring the LEDs and driver, and screwing it together. My heatsink pricing is not finalized, but likely $105-110 plus shipping.

You can take any further inquiries to PM.


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