# If you had $1500.00 for a Lathe?



## Wylie (Feb 15, 2005)

Hi All /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
Okay I have been doing some shopping around and some of the prices I have found on lathes that some have mentioned are hard to believe being I have found nothing like them myself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif Well at least when I get to the websites the back order is for months. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif So did everybody spend the tax return on tools or what! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif 
I am a fairly frugal person, okay most of the time and I am doing something like this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif

Because of my own faith and persistance I have had the good fortune of a very kind person that has the interest and belief in something I am doing to offer $1500 with no questions asked to help me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/awman.gif 
At this point the best I can do with this money is get myself into a lathe and not anything under a 16 inch travel at that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mpr.gif
I have to be very time oriented in what I am doing as well, so the shimming and all with a tool post is out the window. Indexed carbide tools are a key to time conducive production from what I know at this point.
I am going to need some metric taps that may be odd at 1 X 1.25 mm /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif . I bought a whole set and they were not very good ones but they were cheap too.
So what I figure is I am looking for something in a 10 X 16 to 9 X 20 Lathe with a QC?? tool post some carbide tools and a cheap grinder for sharpening the tools.

So what would your shopping list have on it?
I am really kind of lost at this point, the research now has my head swimming and my eyes burniung from this monitor. I still have to finish cooking dinner and I think there is some laundry that has to be done as well. Doing the bachlor thing can be tough sometimes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mpr.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

Wylie


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## wasabe64 (Feb 15, 2005)

Give KBC Tools a try, they have a 9x19 for around $1200 CAD.

As for a QCTP, they are pricier for a larger lathe, Lathemaster has them for a better price. The most QCTP's for lathes with larger swings are machined from steel (TS Engineering's for a minilathe is machined from AL) and that is adds to the cost.

Equipping your lathe:
** Some of this will come with the lathe
Chip brushes
Cutting fluid (and some means of applying the fluid such as spray or brush)
Tailstock centre (live &/or dead)
Tailstock drill chuck
Toolbits
Boring bar
Brazed boring bits
Drills
Drive plate
3-jaw chuck
4-jaw chuck
Dial indicator
Dial caliper
Screw pitch gauge
Way oil
Drill drift (if you plan to use taper shank drills)
Hacksaw
empty pails (4-gallon, check with your favourite restaurant for these) for storing swarf
Steady rest
--for turning between centres:
Spindle centre (dead)
Drive plate
Lathe dogs

Of course, to lessen the cash crunch, you could get tools as you need them if you have a local supplier. I still do not consider a QCTP a must-have item, and that's a component that you do not want to cheap out on (a poorly made toolpost will cost you some rigidity). Use the included turret toolpost to start, get the QCTP later. Shimming is not all that time consuming and you may not have to do it as often as you think. 

I'm sure the rest of the guys will chime in about this one truth:

The initial cost of the lathe is nothing compared to the investment you will make in tooling.

Edit - you may also try the local classifieds in your area, a month after I bought my minilathe, a 9-inch South Bend appeared in the local paper. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif


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## Wylie (Feb 15, 2005)

Thank you for your reply Wasabe64.
Dinner is done my eyes have had a little break and the last load of laundry is in the drier now. 
I haven't looked into it yet but the $1500 could be chump change looking at all the tools and lathe you have mentioned. 
Okay now I have taken a look and I guess you are talking about the Jet 9 X 20? 
If that is it the stand for the lathe is $247 which brings it in at $1246, that would be important as I don't want a big mess of machine oil all over the place. Then there is shipping and the tools to think about. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
$254 to play with could be enough. I'll have to look into the tools to know really. 
Ah, Wasabe I live in a town of less people now then some of the buildings I had worked in California. Just try to find Shoshone Idaho on one of your driving maps, good luck! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif We do have one stop light but that is only when the train passes the main road. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif I don't think I have any local supply for tools here really. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I do work at the only hardware store here but I am not paying what they may be getting for these kinds of tools. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif
The fiberglass calipers I bought today got me for $33.91 and they only go to the 100ths inch. They will work good for the fishing rod build as they read in 64ths and millimeters as well.
Driers done, time for another break.

EDIT: Oh, put a fork in me I'm done for the day! 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


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## raggie33 (Feb 15, 2005)

hi wylie man lathes are so cool dude i dont have one but think ya can mnake stuff ..i say get one for sure dude


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## Wylie (Feb 16, 2005)

Raggie, I'm going to do my best and that is all that I can do!

Good night


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## gadget_lover (Feb 16, 2005)

If I had $1500.00 for a Lathe?

I'm sure you've done this but I'll repeat it for completeness: First I'd double check my requirements. Questions to ask yourself... Do I really need 10 inch swing or will less do? Will I only be turning something smaller than 6 inches across? Do I need 40 inches between centers, or do I just need a chuck with a center hole big enough to stick my work through?

The lathemaster BV20BL seems like a good buy in your price range ($795) but is out of stock. You'd have to buy a QCTP for it.

Grizzly has the G4000 9" x 19" Bench Lathe for $795 too. It appears to have all the features you would need, including multiple chucks. You'd have to buy a QCTP for it.

You can buy a QCTP for any lathe. Using shims is not a real big deal, I simply stored the appropriate shims with each tool before I bought the QCTP.

Don't forget that shipping can add a lot to the price. You are talking 300 plus pounds. The harbor freight lathes are usually shipped free.

To Wasabe's list I'd also add 
Test indicator
Digital Caliper
Magnetic bases for indicators


Optional:
Power metal cutting band saw
(Harbor Freight ITEM 47840-5VGA- $59 plus a bimetal blade)


Daniel


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## McGizmo (Feb 16, 2005)

You might want to check your local papers and see if anyone has an Atlas or South Bend bench lathe for sale. If some one is cleaning out a shop, you can get a good machine and a lot of tooling sometimes for a great price. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif If you plan on doing some production, an old second operation ot turret lathe might get you where you want to go in a better fashion.


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## KC2IXE (Feb 16, 2005)

McGizmo's hit it on the head - buy a good used lathe. Now you say you have $1500 for the lathe. Not having read the details, it seems you said you had $1500 for a lathe AND tooling - which is it?

Now I know out where you are, it might be harder to find one, but look for used. Around HERE, my first Stop would be Sobel's in NJ, and USED to be Meridian Machinery on Long Island - they are NOW in Pennsylvania, so it's a LOT more of a trip, and I'd call/email Dave first

NOTE: Just went to his web site - he's out of business. Man that hurts, I was going to have him look for a lathe for me


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## Wylie (Feb 16, 2005)

Hi again,
I guess I should have been a little clearer with what I have for what I want. It would be $1500 for the lathe and tools.
As to my needs in a lathe, I tinker with a lot of different things and the longest stock I can see myself working with at this time would be 16 inches in length. This 16" of EVA foam will balance the rod blanks I work with for cat and stripper fishermen. Granted a great deal of the work I will be doing for the lower end rods will take about 2 to 8 inches of travel on the lathes bed for plastics and such. I will have to do threading inside and out in metric to start with and then S.A.E. later. Some parts I will be modding come from overseas with a 1 X 1.25 millimeter thread. I have a stash of about two hundred of these parts and then I go from scratch with them. 
I just don't want to limit myself and do want the most I can get.
Good point gadget_lover I could do with less swing from what I see myself doing at this point but as long as I need the length I am looking for it looks like I'll get more swing then I really need. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif The travel is right! With 11 longitudal feeds threading could be limited? Then again at the price of the Grizzly I may be able to get a good tap and die set in Metric and S.A.E. then chuck up and get things straight.
That Grizzly looks like a really good option, thanks gadget_lover.
Time to go to work now. 

Thanks guys,
Wylie


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## Anglepoise (Feb 16, 2005)

You might want to factor your lifestyle into your purchase.

Big lathes are very heavy and not easy to move in and out of basements. It might be best to compromise on size until you know for sure that machining is your hobby.

A good condition used machine of known brand name ( Atlas, South bend, Colchester, Monarck, Hercus etc ) would be a fantastic find.

As above, tooling will /can cost 3 times the cost of the lathe. This is a fun but expensive hobby.

Good luck.


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## HarryN (Feb 16, 2005)

If I had the money for a lathe, I would buy a mill. Yes, lathes can do a lot of things, but there are some cuts that just really need a mill.

If there was a cut that just could not be done on the mill, I would just hire chop to turn it for me. His work is great, and prices are reasonable.


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## Wylie (Feb 16, 2005)

Anglepoise,
This thing isn't going in a basement. I do have a crawl space down there but I don't think a lather will fit through the little hatch to get there. Besides it may be a little cold in the winter time down there. 
I have an extra bedroom in the house I bought and there should be enough room for rod driers maybe eight positions total(boxed out), an electrical bench,a rod wrapping machine (If the big rod orders cost me time)and rod racks for finished product. 
At this point the tools do not look out of touch for what I will be doing. I just milled over a website for materials and they good as far as prices so I am getting a bit charged now. 
I have taken a look at my lifestyle and the candle will have to burn at both ends to get where I would like to go but I have done it before and know what it will take.
Thanks Anglepoise

HarryN,
I did send Chop/Tony drawings of what I am doing with some plastics but nothing has really become of it. The drawings were also posted here on the forum so they are now public domain for all to see.
Although I cannot see the pictures anymore they were posted in both metric and S.A.E. on this thread http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=MMM&Number=845751&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=2

Thanks Harry,
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
Wylie


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## FRANKVZ (Feb 16, 2005)

How about this one http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44142


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## Wylie (Feb 16, 2005)

Holly smokes, look at that thing! 
I am going to have to look into this and the sort. 
I told myself I wasn't going to burn my eyes tonight with this computer but now I have so many thing running through my mind. 
Yikes, shipping might just wreck the $300 to spare. 
Oh my aching credit limit!


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## Chop (Feb 17, 2005)

I wouldn't waste my time with the combo machine. I had an opportunity to work on one and it just got in its own way.

In the last 18 months or so since I started doing mod. Maybe a bit longer than that, I've been thinking of getting into a real lathe. Something big and American made. Like an Atlas or something. I've looked around and they are nice machines. Deals can be made on the used market.

I do have to say though, that I do LOVE my mini lathe. Yes, I have had to do some tweaking and adjusting. These things DO NOT come ready to run. On a whole though, I'd have to say that, even if I did get a larger, "better" lathe, I think I'd still be doing a majority of my work on the mini lathe.

Since I added the 5" three jaw chuck, I haven't had any problems working on flashlights. You just have to keep in mind that I like to build small lights. I rarely build anything larger than a 2X123.

On the larger lathes, there are just a few amenities that I'd miss. Things like infinitely variable speeds, reverse, and the ease and comfort of operation.

Until a short time ago, I had two lathes. Both were minis. One was a Harbor Freight 7X10, which I had setup exclusively for threading at 20tpi. The other is a Homier 7X12 which I do everything else on.

The small machines are just comfortable to use. It might not be a bad idea to just start with a small one and get another, larger one later if you need it. Chances are that once you do get the larger one, you'll still want to keep the mini.

If you have $1500 to blow, check out the Micro Mark. It's supposed to be a true inch machine and as nice as the mini lathes get.

As I said above, I'd stay away from the combo machine. If you need a mill, buy a mill. If you only need to do some simple milling operations, you may be able to get away with a milling attachment for the lathe. I do my simple milling on a horse of a drill press. Well, it's a horse to me, compared to the type that I'm used to using.


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## Brento (Feb 17, 2005)

as stated by everyone stay away from the combo. a lathe can do everything a mill can do but a mill can't do everything a lathe can do. it all has to do with your setup. 

what will you be making with the lathe? do you actually need the 20" between centers? the 9x20 are much more heavy compared to the 7x12.

besides the harbor frieght and the homier you can also look at the cummings. it is supposed to be a better value than the homier. 

http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,876.html

but if you have $1500 look at the micromark (7x14 compared to the harbor freight 7x10 and the homier 7x12) and the rest will easily be spent on tooling. 

http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=82710

here is a lathemaster. it is a good 9x20

http://www.lathemaster.com/LATHEMASTER9x20Lathe.htm

the rule of thumb is you be spending the same amount or more on tooling than on the lathe.


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## Wylie (Feb 18, 2005)

I did notice that the combo did look as though it could get in it's own way and the search still continues for what will be the best tool for the job/s.
I do not have the time this morning to repost the pictures and tonioght may not be good as well but I will try to get the pictures of some of the parts posted again. Imagestation just isn't hosting well for me these days. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Thanks again guys, gota go now,
Wylie


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## Wylie (Feb 18, 2005)

Here I go talking to myself again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
Some information that has not been included in the pictures would be as follows.
The threads on the prototype that I have now would look to be a 5/8 inch outside diameter and 16 to 1" threads.
The material I plan on using would be a black Delrin plastic.
Here goes again. Imagestation please leave posted! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif









And this would be the prototype made for me by a man that will not be able to make them for me.





So what kind of tools do you guys figure a guy could use to make these parts with a lathe?

I think I am going to have some shopping list!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Keep it real, bright,
Wylie


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## pbarrette (Feb 20, 2005)

Hi Wylie,

What is the longest workpiece that you will need to deal with, and what is the largest diameter that you will be working with?

I am asking because, while they aren't as popular here, there are some very nice lathes made by Sherline which may suit your needs and be much cheaper than you would expect.

The Sherline 4400 lathe has 17" between centers, a 3.5" swing over bed, a 1.75" swing over carriage and .405" hole through spindle. With the optional riser blocks, the swing over bed can be increased to 6" if needed. This should be more than enough room for most projects.

The drawback here, is that the Sherline lathes do not have built-in threading capabilities like the mini-lathes. However, there is an optional threading kit available, but it requires that the spindle be turned by hand while threading.

On the plus side.. This machine is virtually ready to cut out of the box. It is also a very accurate machine and the tooling is relatively inexpensive.

Additionally, http://www.thesherlineshop.com/ has some very good deals on this machine and its accessories. For example, the 4400-C package includes:
Sherline 4400 long bed lathe.
Adjustable zero handwheels.
Rocker toolpost.
3 jaw, self centering chuck.
3/8" drill chuck.
Steady rest.
Live center.
Cut-off tool (parting tool) and holder.
HSS cutting tool set.
Center drill set.
Guide book.
Compound slide.
Thread cutting attachment.

All for $1,024.80 which leaves plenty of room for additional tooling and shipping, and the $65 knurling tool.

For an additional ~$150, you can get the "CNC Ready" version of this package, which comes with the CNC motor mounts and a longer Z-axis leadscrew. You could then order the Xylotex CNC controller, stepper motors and power supply for an additional ~$450 to have a complete, drop-in CNC setup and only be slightly over your budget.

Another option might be to try out emachineshop.com and check their pricing. Their software is free to download and allows you to get nearly instant quotes on custom machining. The prices can be high for small runs, but the costs can go down significantly in quantity. You can even import your own DXF files so you don't have to redraw your part with their interface.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that there are other options available, which may be cheaper depending on your specific needs.

pb


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## Wylie (Feb 21, 2005)

pb,
The threading is one of the major options that I am looking for in a lathe. Beyound the parts pictured above there plans for more threaded parts of different diameters and lengths. Some of the fishing rod handles I will be working on in the future will need the 16" of travel and some of the diameters may reach 2.5" inches. The tools I plan on making will go above the 2.5" in diameter but I have some material for these tools to research before I will know all of the measurements.
Wow, the CNC stuff looks nice but may just be out of my means at this time. 

Thanks pb


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## ABTOMAT (Feb 21, 2005)

Used is absolutely the only way to go, as long as you find something in decent condition.

$1500 will buy you a new 9x20 import, plus a stand and some tooling. 9x20s seem to be about the worst-quality import offering out there. I guess it's between the smaller 7x12 lathes that can be made easily, and the larger lathes that are big enough for them to give a crap when they build it. All the new brands are the same thing. Only a little extra checking is done with higher priced ones. Any time you buy something like that you also need to figure in time and money for cleaning out sand and chips, and replacing bearings and screws.

On the other hand, I got a nearly unused, loaded and tooled, fully papered, pimped and tweaked, 1952 quickchange Atlas 10x24 for $200 delivered. Add a few bucks for new bearings and a lot of hours in cleaning and making a stand (from scrap lathe legs). Now, the deal I got was pretty amazing, but $1500 will go a long, long way. At worst you could get a tooled 10-12" Atlas/Craftsman or Myford. At best you could find a loaded 9" South Bend or Logan, or even an SB Heavy10 or smaller Sheldon or bigger Logan.

All those old brands are much higher quality than any cheap import. The Atlas is a light design but it's still good. In good condition any of these things can make good work and last forever with care. SB is expensive and bad parts support from the factory, but the machines are plentiful on the used market. Atlases are everywhere and supported well by Clausing. Logan isn't as common but is still supported by Scott.

With the right setup you can mill small things on a lathe. You can't thread or easily turn on a mill. Basically a lathe does round things, a mill flattens and grooves non-round things.

Have fun in whatever you do.


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## Wylie (Feb 21, 2005)

You lucky dog!
Thanks for the tips. Sweet looking old machine ABTOMAT!


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## Anglepoise (Feb 21, 2005)

ABTOMAT .....what a fine looking machine. Its something you will have and love all your life. Never sell it.


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## Rothrandir (Feb 21, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Anglepoise said:*
ABTOMAT .....what a fine looking machine. Its something you will have and love all your life. Never sell it. 

[/ QUOTE ]

unless it's to me! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Wylie (Feb 22, 2005)

If I could I would like to confirm some things that I have read in my research if any of you may know.
Although it has been suggested that a used machine would likely end up in some extra tools and a better use of the funds at hand, I have to look at luck or the way may choices have come out in the past. Used cars haven't been my friend and have been money pits that I have seen with my friends and myself. Getting into a machine that will need new parts and work is a little scary for me to say the least.
Being I have never work on any high end machine a comprimes wouldn't even be noticed so I think I have come to the conclusion of the 3-in-1 type machine for reasons of space, cost and versitility. 
In the 3-in-1 machines I have read a lot of negitives from old times that have worked with the big machines with d/c varibles and multi phased power plants that I just don't the money space or electrical for.
I also read prase for the Harbor Freight's first shippment of the 3-in-1 they put their name on. Since then it seems the quality has dropped off some but for the most case it is superficial errors that can be just a matter of cleaning greasing and some tool up. The motors may not have the strength they did in the first units that came in but from what I have read a guy that can wind a motor with some good wire can bring them up to a full horse too. 
Then there is the Grizzly of a different color but the same machine basically. Maybe some different tools and few slight differences but the same beast. The Grizzly and I still have some looking over to go through but I do think I am getting this thing down to the point I should start looking at the tools, rids and gig to make the most out of one of these 3-in-1's.

Okay it's time to thrash the 3-in-1's here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif 

Back to the grind again, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Wylie


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## gadget_lover (Feb 22, 2005)

Many of the 3-in-1's have a motor or post behind the tailstock that will preclude inserting a long rod through the chuck and sprindle. Be sure to check that before plunking down your cash.


Daniel


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## Wylie (Feb 22, 2005)

Thanks GL,
It may be that my plans are changing again as I am limited through my source for a lathe as to just what I can get. 
At this point I am on the search for the Jet multi if there is such a thing. I just thought I should stop by to check and see if there had been any replies to the 3-in-1 post I made this morning. I was a little crazy today when I found out that I had lost the options I had done all the reasearch on after believing I would have had this option through my source. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
I can get the 9 X 20 Jet and at a little savings but I have to see the tooling options and get to know what I am going to be dealing with if I am limited to this tool.

Thanks for the warning,
Wylie


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## ABTOMAT (Feb 22, 2005)

One thing to watch out for: Make sure whatever you get can cut its own spindle thread. You'll need it make backplates and other parts.


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## Wylie (Feb 22, 2005)

Oh man those asian made 9 X 20's sound like lemons right out of the gate from what I have read in just the time from my last post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif If this is my first lathe where can I machine bearing paths to make them smooth! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif 
It sounds like a 40 hour deal just to get the machine up and running and that is for someone who has worked on these things before.
If you are into horror stories about tools and new tools at that try this link.
Work on it right out of the box?

I may have to make the 100 mile drive to Pocky for a refabed machine at this rate!

Still searching and I will remeber the spindle threading like the Grizzly cannot do from what I have read.

So much to read and sort out, YIKES!


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## gadget_lover (Feb 23, 2005)

I guess I was very lucky. My HF 7x10 was in reasonably good shape when I bought
it. No extra chips (that I've found) left over from machining, all the parts work and are alligned. I had to adjust the gib screws, but that's a normal maintenance item anyway. You have to clean all machinery that's been "protected" by cosmoline, so while you're at it you might as well check the little things.

Keep in mind the concept that saying "those asian made 9 X 20's sound like" uses a very broad brush to account for a very large portion of the earth. While you can safely say the HF lathes share a certain trait, I don't think you can be certain that different lathes from different companies all come from the same supplier.

The Lathe sold by Cummings looks very similar to the HF model, but it has sufficient differences that they might simply use a similar design. There's only so many ways to build a small lathe, and building a copycat is the cheapest way to do R&D.

Getting back to the "asian lathes".... Very few people need to scrape their beds or adjust their bearings or headstocks or make any other major adjustments. In my case I put a piece of aluminum in the chuck the first day (that I had tools) and turned a nice rod that was totally concentric (.495 diameter the whole length). No adjustments needed.

I'd have to wonder if you would be ahead of the game right now if you had bought just about any of the models mentioned? Even if you spent 40 hours tweaking it, you'd be making parts on it this week.

My word of warning; It will take a while to be come proficient at machining. You need to learn how to hold the pieces you are cutting, how to center the pieces and how to cut them the way you want. You have to learn to cut threads,
and to make nice shiny finishes. This will probably take weeks or even more.

There's a lot of learning to do, and the couple hours checking the allignment is just part of learning about the machine. Don't let it put you off. Like I said, I don't know anyone who's put 40 hours into alligning and cleaning a machine that was not just plain broken.

Daniel


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## Wylie (Feb 23, 2005)

Thanks Daniel,
That was a very wide statement I made concerning the "asian made lathes" and it could be taken very wrong. 
From what I understand and not to generalize again the 7X10's sound to be less troubling then the newer 9X20's that being imported. May just be working out the bugs, I wouldn't be at the liberty to say.
I think before I order the lathe (which ever it will be) I will have to check into its point of origin as from what I have read this can really make a difference.
Oh yes, I am sure I am in for a huge learning curve but I will have to take it in little bites just like the machining has to be done to have a fit and finished end product.

Edit: One issue I am still fighting is speed control and threading of both plastics and metals. They just don't say these things can be kicked into granny low with what have you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif 

I thank you again sir,
Wylie


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## Wylie (Mar 1, 2005)

This really feels dumb but some of the terms used by the distributor of this lathe could be taken for some of the tools mentioned and then there are a few I have scratched from the list already.
A couple tools I have to buy have been omitted from this list already and some that I can determine that do come with the lathe as well, can any of you help scratch some more off the list with me.
Here is the distributors listing for the Lathe.
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=detail&iid=11017

Here is the list that has been formed although some of these tools I may not need and still have to research just what they do to know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Equipping your lathe: 
Quick change tool post 
Tailstock center live and dead
Tailstock drill chuck 
Tool bits ? What kind?
Boring bar 
Brazed boring bits 
Drive plate 
Dial indicator 
Drill drift 
Steady rest 
Spindle center 
Drive plate Lathe dogs
Test indicator

Back to the fun and games for me, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Wylie


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## wasabe64 (Mar 1, 2005)

Okay,

Going through your list, the drill drifts won't be required unless you plan to use taper-shanked drills, so you can probably strike that from the list.

You should add a protractor and a centre gauge (fishtail gauge) for threading.

Toolbits: (I have listed them by task)

_Threading_ - 60-degree LH/RH/Neutral bit (RH is handier depending on how much runout is needed)
_Turning_ - right-hand (feed towards chuck)
_Turning/Facing_ - left-hand (feed away from chuck - I've never used mine for that, I use it as a facing tool instead)
_Cutoff/Grooving_ - parting tool/blade
_Shoulders_ - Shoulder toolbit (LH/RH), 'G' style toolbit in the catalogs

And for quick&dirty work:
_Turning/Facing/Shouldering_ - Use a square toolbit, you won't have to change toolbits or reverse the tool in the tool holder. You simply change the angle of the toolbit for each task.


If you have the inclination, grinding your own may be a cheaper option. I'm lazy, so I use indexable and brazed toolbits.


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## wasabe64 (Mar 1, 2005)

If you plan to cut a lot of plastics with your lathe, consider grinding HSS toolbits. You get a sharper edge on the ground toolbit as opposed to indexable or brazed carbide tools. A carbide tool will have a very short life if used to cut plastics = money lost. There is no heat transfer and the tool heats up quickly.

A trick with plastics (I cut high-density polyethylene on the lathe a lot), freeze the workpiece before you start cutting. The cuts are a lot cleaner.


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## Wylie (Mar 1, 2005)

Thank you very much wasabe64. 
That tip on the freezing sounds as though it really would help a lot with the plastics. No stringing out like when the tool gets so hot it melts the plastic and takes a little with it when the tool leaves the work. The only catch I could think of is the difference in the plastics and freezing.
Expansion and contraction would be my only thought and may be the reason the threads have no tolerence at all on this prototype I have. I think the guy I had make this for me froze the plastic just like you have mentioned. 
Excellent tip for plastics!

Okay exnay the taper shanked drills and the quick change tool post. I priced some QCTPs today and I think I will do without for a while to cut the budget real quick. 

I believe I will be inclinded to shape my own tools being the carbide will bite the dust as fast as you have indicated.

Okay I have added the following to the list.

Protractor

Center gauge aka fishtail gauge

60-degree LH/RH/Neutral bits

Parting tool/blade

Shoulder tool bit (LH/RH), 'G' style tool bit

Square tool bit.

They are on the list and ready to be priced. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif Without the QCTP will I have to get some shims? Or what may be used as shims?

Sure looks like I have a lot to learn here! I better get into the operators manual I printed out the other night and see what that can do me for smarts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mpr.gif

Thanks again,
Wylie


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## gadget_lover (Mar 1, 2005)

There are meny sources of shims. I used the soft steel straps that held my lathe package together. I stacked 4 or 5 as needed to get the proper tool height.

A common trick is to go to the local walmart and buy a cheap feeler guage set. Pop the rivet and you have 30 or so shims of various thicknesses.

If you change tools alot the QCTP will pay for itself quickly. It also helps you decide to use the right tool, instead of using whatever is in the tool holder at the moment. It takes a minute or two to change from the right shoulder tool to the cut to the right tool using the stock tool post. It takes 5 seconds on the QCTP.




Daniel


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## leadfoot (Mar 1, 2005)

I have been dreaming of purchasing a lathe and mill for some time myself. Somewhere I read that the MicroMark, Harbor Freight, Grizzly, Cummins etc. are not only clones of each other but are actually made by the same company. Just to each companies specs as to accessories and a few minor size changes. I can't find where I read this but will search for it. Of this type machine to me the MicroMark looks the best. At this point the Sherline machines have the most appeal and will probably be my choice.

Leadfoot


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## gadget_lover (Mar 2, 2005)

Leadfoot, If I had it to do again, I'd look at the cummins (cumminstools.com) 8x12 for $399 before I'd look at the Sherline. There are more common accessories for the 7x10 and 8x12 thane there are for the sherline AND it's less expensive.

Daniel


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## leadfoot (Mar 2, 2005)

Thanks for the advice Daniel. It will probably be a year or so before I'm ready to buy. What I hope will happen is to find a used setup with tooling. Sound even more cost effective than new anyway.

Leadfoot

Ps. sure do enjoy my hi/low and I have a spare ready for the next light.

D


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## Wylie (Mar 2, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mpr.gif That is a lot of green backs for one of those QCTPs.
The terms on some of these websites I have been searching for the tools on has been a bit of a hassle and in the mix I have gotten side tracked a couple of times with different lathes and such.
Check this thing out with the cassette deck.
0-2000 rpm
QCTP
Not knowing anything about them it looks good to me but way out of my budget even if I could find the tools for it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=97230&item=3878277962&rd=1#ebayphotohosting


Oops, thanks for the tips on the shims. I was kind of thinking feeler gauges but the strapping will work and I have plenty at work too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## gadget_lover (Mar 2, 2005)

The lathe on Ebay is a CNC (electrically controlled) lathe. They use CNC to make the same part over and over. I thought you wanted one you could control by hand.

A QCTP should not be much more than $100 or so. You can find them on E-bay, make your own or buy one from Enco, MSC, etc.

Daniel


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## Wylie (Mar 3, 2005)

Thanks Daniel,
I think I seen the QCTPs as low as $80 as an option with a lathe somewhere but I am going to get free shipping so that will average the difference.

I just thought that machine was pretty cool. It did meantion some manual stuff I thought. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif If it wasn't out of my budget I would put some time into researching it but it just costs more then I have to invest in the lathe. 
I still have a bunch of other stuff to buy into and have started with that already.
The first shippment of rods have landed and some really cool lasers are in the mail. 50 other laser modules are on order from overseas and the list goes on and on from there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mpr.gif

Thanks Daniel,
Wylie


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## ElektroLumens (Mar 5, 2005)

I just spent some time reading through this thread. A lot of helpful information. Wish I had read it earlier.

If you have $1,500 to spend on a lathe, save up another $800 and buy this: 







G4003 12" x 36" Gear-Head, Cam Lock Spindle, Gap Bed Lathe

With shipping it cost me $2,305.00. I purchased two 9x20 lathes from Harbor Freight, one for $799.99 and the other on sale for $599.99. If you want to waste money, buy a 9X20 lathe. The poorest thing I found with the 9X20 is the too post. The way it is mounted is poor. The screws underneath come loose, than the entire post is unsteady. Tolerances are terrible. Both auto feeds are broken on both lathes. The bearings went out on one of them. The drive belt is too thin, and on one lathe it broke. I don't really have too much good to say about these lathes. If you're turning something and the bit bites a bit too much, the belt slips. Changing gears to change threading speeds, well, that's a pain and I didn't ever really manage to get to doing that.

Now I just got this 12X36 lathe, and after using the 9X20, this thing is a dream. Chaning speeds is just a matter of flipping levers. Auto feed works for horizontal, and also for front to back. Threading looks easy, although I have done had the chance to do it yet. The tailstock has a lever on the side, so moving the tailstock is just a matter of flipping the lever, sliding the tailstock, and then locking it inplace. This lathe came equiped with a quick change tool post (I purchased one for the 9X20 at $200). It also had several indexable bits, threading tool, tailstock drill chuck, and a lot of other stuff. Basically all you need to get to work right away. I use mist sprayers to cool the cutters.

I've done quite a bit of work on the 9X20. It's okay for making small things that don't need much accuracy.

Wayne


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## Wylie (Mar 5, 2005)

Thanks Wayne,
That may just be a little more lathe then I will need. Yes, there is a lot of good information that the folks here have helped me with and I would like to thank them all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
The Grizzly 9 X 20 has a spindle thread that the machine is not able to make threads for from what I understand and this why I didn't go with the Grizzly. The tap for the threading would cost an extra $100. I don't know what type of spindle thread your machine has because it is out of my price range and then I still have the tools to think of.

I hope to have an answer/cost on my tool list that I have emailed off soon. 

Thanks Wayne, nice machine, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Wylie


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## Wylie (Mar 7, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
After three emails (no answers) and one fax I have finally got an answer back from Enco (with questions /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif). I was trying to get some help after beginning to question my sanity again looking for tools that really know nothing about. I've been trying to do this as much as I can on my own but here I am again looking for some more help.
The fax that was returned meantioned needing more information and listed MT and taper. I know the MT2 or MT3 will work but as to the taper, what would be the best for my application?
The fax also mentioned they need sizes on the indicators? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

I have copied and pasted the emails/fax I sent to Enco so maybe if there would be anything else that I would need to let them know one of you may spot it and save me some time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hello Enco,
I am a very small business owner with an award-winning patent that has kept me busy for years through R &D and a few runs at getting my business off the ground without great success to this point. Being that my machinist I was working with in producing parts has passed away I am taking it upon myself to make some plastic parts that are needed for my project.
I am buying a Jet model BD920N lathe in order to make these parts for myself and being that I have no training as a lathe operator the tools that have been suggested to me are completely foreign. Once I have the tools there are people in my area I can get some help from in educating myself to produce the parts I would like to make.
The reason I am writing is that my tool list is extensive and has terms that have been hard for me to follow and find on your website. If possible could you please list the tool models and prices in an email/fax to me that I can pass on to my investors and order from. Again the lathe I am buying is a Jet model BD920N just like the Enco 920 on your website. When I order there will be a few more items but these I can find myself.

5/8-16 Tap and Die
5/8-16 bottom Tap 
Quick change tool post
Tailstock center live 1 ½”
Tailstock drill chuck/ large for minimum 5/8” drill bit
Boring bar 
Brazed boring bits 
Drive plate 
Screw pitch gauge S.A.E. 
Steady rest 
Spindle center 
Drive plate 
Lathe dogs straight and bent one each
Test indicator
Magnetic bases for indicators
Protractor
Center gauge (fishtail gauge)
60-degree LH/RH/Neutral bit
Parting tool/blade
Shoulder tool bit (LH/RH), 'G' style tool bit
Square tool bit

As to possibly help with the tools I will need for my project I have included the link below which is a rough drawing of the main parts I plan to produce with the tools I will purchase from your company.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid156/pa7c062edb57232be48caf2f481efc00c/f54de7c7.jpg

Thank you for any help you can supply,
Wylie Wiggins
Inventor of the Laser Fishing Rods
www.wylierods.com


Okay questionable by some but still retaining some form of sanity, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
Wylie


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## Chop (Mar 8, 2005)

It helps to know what size lathe you have. Different size lathes require different size tooling.

I looked at your drawing and am wondering if you really need all of that stuff that you listed.

If you have or are getting a mini lathe, you might be better off getting your stuff from www.littlemachineshop.com They specialize in tooling and parts for small lathes. Enco, and companines like Enco cater to those using industrial size machinery.

That aside, mini lathes have a 3MT (morse taper) spindle and a 2MT tail stock. You'll want a 3MT dead center and a 2MT live center.

You'll also need to specify the diameter of your boring bar. I think I'm using a 3/8" boring bar in my mini because that's the size that I need to use with my QCTP. I'm using 3/8" Phase II indexable tooling with my QCTP, although I believe the standard size tool bit for minis is 5/16". I went with indexable tooling on everything. For me, using my lathe is a means to an end, not an end in itself. I want to spend as little time as possible setting up.

If I were you, I'd just get the centers, a decent set of indexable tooling, and indexable boring bar, a scissors type knurling tool (unless you have a big machine), the QCTP, the thread pitch gauge, the drill chuck, and parting tool and holder. These are the things that I use everyday.

Due to my limited use of my lathe (that is being confined to making small flashlights), I've never used my steady rests and I've never seen a lathe dog. I may be doing things incorrectly or the wrong way, but I've never had use for the steady rests of the lathe dogs.

What I would recommend, if you have a mini lathe, is the 5" chuck. You can get a really good grip on pretty big material and it allows you to use the full diameter of your spindle through hole.

The only other thing I can say is don't go cheap on drills. Get a decent set of center drills and a good set of HSS drill bits. I got a cheap set at first and I couldn't believe how much a cheap 3/4" drill bit could flex.


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## Finbar (Mar 8, 2005)

This is a nice site that has reviews of different lathes. Maybe it will help.

http://www.mini-lathe.com

I have found great deals in other used types of equipment. The catch is that you have to know the value of the thing being hunted and good places to look.

In quick shops there is a paper called the Trader. Several states have them with the state listed before the word "trader". A State newspaper might be useful. Lathe web sites that have a used or for sale page.

You are going to lathe fishing rods? In sections or one piece? Sounds difficult, but I have not used a lathe...yet.

Good Luck. Fin


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## wasabe64 (Mar 8, 2005)

Hi Wylie,

I've listed the items that will depend on the specs specific to the lathe you want to get. Any of the omitted items were straight-forward.

Quick change tool post - <font color="green">dictated by the swing of the Lathe, standard sizing is AXA (<12" swing), or custom sized</font>
Tailstock center live 1 ½” - <font color="green">dictated by taper of tailstock quill (what Chop said, 2-3 morse taper is common for a 9x20 lathe)</font>
Tailstock drill chuck/ large for minimum 5/8” drill bit - <font color="green">any chuck, the arbor must match the morse taper of the tailstock</font>
Drive plate - <font color="green">diameter must be less than swing the of the lathe</font>
Steady rest - <font color="green">dependent on the swing of lathe, but it is usually better to buy the rest made specifically for you lathe</font>
Spindle center - <font color="green">depends on the morse taper of your spindle (3-4 MT is common on a 9x20)</font>
Lathe dogs straight and bent one each - <font color="green">dictated by the diameter of the workpiece</font>

The lathes can take any size of tool up to the max capacity if the tool holder.
60-degree LH/RH/Neutral bit - <font color="green">Depends on the toolpost</font>
Parting tool/blade - <font color="green">Depends on the toolpost</font>
Shoulder tool bit (LH/RH), 'G' style tool bit - <font color="green">Depends on the toolpost</font>
Square tool bit - <font color="green">Depends on the toolpost</font>
Boring bar - <font color="green">depends on the size of toolpost/BB holder, the heavier (larger diameter) the bar the better (less deflection)</font>
Brazed boring bits - <font color="green">shank diameter is dictated by size of toolpost/BB holder</font>

I hope this helps.

This will require more homework on your part, but it will let you familiarize yourself with a lathe and the terms/specifications. The guys have also mentioned the minilathe sites, which are very helpful.


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## Wylie (Mar 8, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif Sometimes I should just let things happen in there own time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
Today I got an email back from an Enco Tech and it sounds as though an email is being put together for me that will have links to all of the tools I have listed in the email to them and the list above. 
I have made a list of references now.
This thread is one of them.
The mini-lathe site has been added to my favorites.
The little machine shop for the Cris Tips.
I did hook up with the 9X20 lathe group on Yahoo but the emails bowled me over so I had to bail on that. I did try changing my settings but nothing worked so I bailed out.
With all of your help I think this is pretty close to wrapped but I do still have some materials in the mail to me that are going to determine the size of the lathe dogs (maybe around 2.5 inches) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
The check went out for them today, $261.47 for three fishing rod blanks, two are 12 foot long and one is six foot six inches long. 
This will also determine some of the other materials I will be buying into and I haven't even gotten into the lathe yet. By the time this is over I'm going to be looking like this again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif

It's kind of a crazy plan but I have to get the lathe to make the tools to make the fishing rods to make the money to do it all over again while working a six day a week and living the life of a bachlor. Looks like the 18 to 20 hour days are going to be a regular thing again! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mpr.gif 
I think I am going to have to make Sundays fishing days.


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## wasabe64 (Mar 9, 2005)

Looks like you're well on the way.

As for making your own tooling, that is what I consider one of the most gratifying things to do on the lathe. I've made collets, mandrels and knurlers for my lathe so far. It expands your capabilities in the shop without breaking the bank.


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## Finbar (Mar 9, 2005)

Wylie,

Sign in to Yahoo and go to "My Groups". Click on the "9x20 Lathe" group. On the right side of the page there is a link called "Edit My Memebership". Click that. Scroll down to "Message Delivery" and click "No Email". That will stop the daily posts from that group being emailed to you everyday. You will have to read them from the site now though.

Some groups are so large that you will get maybe 100 emails a day or one really large one. I just read my groups from the web page instead of getting the emails.

http://www.southern-tool.com
They have a Jet metal lathe marked down from $1,283.50 to $1,069.66. Free freight anywhere in the Continental US.

Fin


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## Wylie (Mar 29, 2005)

wasabe64,
I do plan on making a lot of my own tools and I have done so in the past. It really does feel good to say I made that and look what it made. 
I have slacked a little on the tool list and some of the parts lists I have going for some testing on a circuit I am most likely going to use in one of the new rods that may be built before all of the tools are finished. So far I am doing a good 36 hours illumination on 4AAA alk batteries. The nimh rechargeables are on the tread mill at the moment.

Finbar,
I did register to the 9X20 Lathe Group you are mentioning and the emails were just too much. I got hundreds of them in just days. It made it hard to sort through what was important and not and did take more time then I really feel it was worth. I may try registering again but with different settings to help sort the emails.


Thanks again guys,
Off to the grind with me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


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