# RGB + UV + IR in single package?



## Noctilucent (Jul 16, 2010)

Hello everybody.

I'm new to these forums, but they seem to be one of the better places to discuss LED lighting, among other.

At this time, however, I have but one question that I'm hoping one or more of you can answer:
Are any of you aware of a manufacturer supplying RGB + UV + IR (independently addressable) within a single package?
Preferably SMD component, but pre-wired to hex, star, etc. or even provided in standard cylindrical acrylic housings would (after some shaving) do.

The exact layout within the package would not be important, as long as the package itself has standard dimensions for fitting mass-produced, and thus cheaply available, collimators, circuitry boards (if component), etc.
This would greatly cut down on jury rigging 3 components (1 x RGB, 1 x IR, 1 x UV) onto a board and working with 90° angle optical reflectors.

Any starting point would be appreciated - Google results are too contaminated given that many LED lighting providers will list LEDs as 'not' emitting UV and IR, resulting in thousands of hits that are of exactly zero use to me in this situation. Even if the answer is "nope - nobody makes that", that would be useful information so I can stop searching 

Many thanks in advance!

( if anybody's wondering about the username - Google Images definitely returns useful results for that one )


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## Th232 (Jul 16, 2010)

Never seen one. The closest you'd get is a Cree MC-E RGB, which has red, green, blue and either warm or cool white.

You might also find that with collimating such an LED would be an interesting task.


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## usLEDsupply (Jul 16, 2010)

i don't believe anyone makes one.
cree makes a RGBW and RGBA on a star with individually addressable dies but they can be a bit hard to get as i have been trying for 6 months and just got some in last week. but i think the IR and UV market is too limited and the costs are to high to make it practical.


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## jeffosborne (Jul 16, 2010)

Hi Noctilucent! I just have to ask: what is your application? How would you plan to use the parts? Cheers, Jeff


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## Noctilucent (Jul 17, 2010)

Th232, usLEDsupply,

Yes, I thought as much - but given the conundrum of the google search I couldn't be sure. I'll certainly keep an eye on this thread, just in case.
The market would definitely be small - limited mostly to laboratory illumination purposes.

Which brings me to...

jeffosborne,

Certainly. For study of biological (some mineralogical, but that is very limited) samples we are currently swapping out lighting sources (both back lighting as well as variable angle edge lighting) - which is a relatively time-consuming task, invariably causes the lighting to shift (as per the edge lighting cases), or worse - the sample, if not clamped down properly (or simply handled by a clumsy person), etc.
A colleague suggested that we could build our own little rigs with an RGB led* an IR led and a UV led - but quickly ran into the problems detailed in my original post - the packaging as a whole becomes, obviously, non-standard; which means we would likely require angle reflectors (essentially small piece of plastic or glass, using total internal reflection - you might have seen these in some electronic equipment) to bring the IR and UV into the same area before passing through a diffuser and finally the optional collimating lens. Those reflectors, especially, add quite a bit of bulk and getting things aligned properly can be - as I'm sure many here have found out from getting lenses or reflectors aligned properly on their DIY LED flashlights (I browsed for a bit - that's some powerful stuff!) - rather tricky.
Thus if this were presented in a standard packaging, that would certainly be preferable - even at what you might call premium prices (think man-hours for the jury-rigging). The collimation 'problem' would be much more manageable than with separate components, certainly.

* Just to touch on the little asterisk up above..


Th232 said:


> The closest you'd get is a Cree MC-E RGB, which has red, green, blue and either warm or cool white.


..that -is- interesting even without the UV and IR component. Are you aware of any other suppliers that might offer RGB+Any manner of 'white' (which I suspect is a phosphorous coating excited by blue light)? The datasheets might be worth a gander just to see if the wavelengths from that would be beneficial as well. The dimensions are certainly nice and compact at 9x7x4.5 mils, though the lens appears to be a fixed part of the package. I'll at least run the option by him - thanks!


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## thepaan (Jul 17, 2010)

LedEngin also makes an RGBW as well as an RGBA. I believe the efficiacy is lower but the package output is much higher. Also, I recall seeing other manufacturers making them too....

Edit: quick search on digikey reveals several other vendors making rgb packages including Seoul and Osram.


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## Noctilucent (Jul 17, 2010)

thepaan,

Thank you - I'll recommend that site and some additional searching using RGBW/RGBA for that particular line of thinking. Had my coffee this morning and the additional coverage between red and green would definitely be very useful.

Another option that was presented to me was sourcing very small SMD components (essentially no bigger than the 'chip' within the more standard packages) of the types we'd like and get those into an oven on a custom PCB to get to a standard package dimension.

Much to think about it 

Thanks again so far, everyone!


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## bstumm (Jul 19, 2010)

LEDEngin also makes UV and IR emitters so if you went with them at least all the emitters are in the same package that you mount to the MCPCB. Keep in mind that UV radiant output is MUCH lower in LED than in traditional lamp sources.


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## kutop (Jul 20, 2010)

I am working in a LED factory in Shenzhen, China. I do not think you could buy a single package which can emit RGB, UV and IR light. The reason is very simple: LED wavelengths are fixed, you can't change when it has been made.


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## Noctilucent (Jul 27, 2010)

kutop said:


> I am working in a LED factory in Shenzhen, China. I do not think you could buy a single package which can emit RGB, UV and IR light.


That seems to be the case 



kutop said:


> The reason is very simple: LED wavelengths are fixed, you can't change when it has been made.


I'm not sure I follow that line of reasoning - no wavelength would need to be changed: RGB LEDs exist, UV LEDs exist and IR LED exists - I can't think of a technical reason why they could not be combined in a single package. Economical reasons are a different matter, of course.


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