# Battery for HID?



## Throwjunkie (Mar 11, 2011)

Hello folks I am converting my cyclops to HID got everything I need plugged all the good stuff into the battery and the light came on got very bright for around 5 min then slowly started flickering and died. I recharged the battery and got the same results again. My thought is the 12v 6ah lead acid battery isn't up to the task Im running a 55W single HID kit any suggestions on a good run time battery for the light.

Joe


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 13, 2011)

No one? come on folks help me out here I search and find the conversion but no battery info. 

Joe


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## BVH (Mar 13, 2011)

Providing more info would be helpful. How old is the orig battery? Do you have a Voltmeter and if so, have you measured battery voltage as the light dies out? A fully charged 6AH SLA should run the 55 watt HID for at least 40 minutes. Properly operating ballasts will not slowly dim an HID bulb. They go from normal operation, to MAYBE a few seconds of flickering, then out. If your battery is older, that is probably the problem. Being careful and using some jumper wires, power your ballast with your car battery and see what happens. Don't include your 6AH battery in the circuit while testing with the car battery.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 13, 2011)

I have no way of knowing how old the battery is as it could have sat in a warehouse for years before I bought it. I have tried the HIDs in my truck and they work perfectly so I'm fairly sure its the battery thats the issue. I am a Service Tech for electrical lift truck company so I know a good bit about Discharge in batteries and such. What I was asking is What battery folks are using for there Mod to HID. I could easily just go buy a 60Lb Group 24 deepcycle marine battery to run the light but it would certianly be a pain to drag that battery around since its heavy and as big as the light im converting. What I needed was battery folks are using that will fit inside the case of the Cyclops. I would prefer a Lithium battery since they sustain there charge in the voltage range for a longer time. There were some posts that folks talked about the battery for there conversions but I think with the site going POOF those are gone because I cant find them anymore. 


Joe


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## BVH (Mar 13, 2011)

I've recently repowered a number of my hids using unprotected Blue Lipo and GensAce brand prismatic packs - 4S/5000 mah. They are cheap and provide solid power but, the downside is I have to closely and manually monitor the packs so as not to go below 3.0 Volts per cell (or higher). These packs come with balancing tabs and I have a balancing charger so each time I recharge, they are balanced. Most HID ballasts will accept 18Volts but if yours does not, you'd want to look for a 3S/5000 mah pack to keep the Voltage within spec. Less Watt hours but it is actually a closer match to your probable 9Volt shutdown of the ballast and 3.0Volts per cell pack minimum. There are also protected Lipo packs available which would be safer but more costly. Batteryspace dot com has some of these. I'd guess a 3S/5000 mah pack would give you a solid 35 to 40 minutes. You could probably fit two packs in parallel In a Thor for double+ run-time.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 13, 2011)

awesome my Ballast will run from 9-16 volts. I could build a low voltage/overvoltage cut off for it to protect the pack. Was thinking of going this way but was hoping there was a prebuilt pack with safeguard feature less work and I get it now. lol Will see if anyone posts if not I will build a circuit. I would need about an hour of total run time so going with 2 packs parallel seems best for my needs. going to look around for some protected packs on fleebay Thanx for the Help BVH


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 13, 2011)

This is the battery pack I used to re-build my Maxa Beam pack, 6.6AH, 12.8v Lifepo4 pack. , it's slightly smaller than 6AH lead acid & weight about half. 
should be able to fit into Thor body. They perform much better than lead acid of same rating & last a lot longer. 

http://www.batteryspace.com/Custom-LiFePO4-26650-Battery-12.8V-6.6Ah-84Wh-14A-Rate-w/-PCB.aspx


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 13, 2011)

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanx Brother bought 2 batteries and charger. 


Joe


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## Richie086 (Mar 13, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> This is the battery pack I used to re-build my Maxa Beam pack, 6.6AH, 12.8v Lifepo4 pack. , it's slightly smaller than 6AH lead acid & weight about half.
> should be able to fit into Thor body. They perform much better than lead acid of same rating & last a lot longer.
> 
> http://www.batteryspace.com/Custom-LiFePO4-26650-Battery-12.8V-6.6Ah-84Wh-14A-Rate-w/-PCB.aspx


 

Hey Ma Sha1,

How do you go about balancing a battery pack like that, or doesn't it need to be? Thanks.


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## BVH (Mar 13, 2011)

Ma Sha1, most of BatterySpace batteries that have an "equilibrium" feature, say it in their descriptions but this one does not. Since you have one, can you confirm that it does or does not balance the cells?

I guess if it does not and you have some proper sized shrink wrap on-hand, you could always remove the shrink, solder up a balancing tap pigtail with JST-XH 4S connector to the existing tabs and there ya go! (Or the balance pigtail of the charger you use) and reshrink it.

JST XH pigtails source:

http://www.quantumhobby.com/category_s/433.htm


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## [email protected] (Mar 13, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> My thought is the 12v 6ah lead acid battery isn't up to the task Im running a 55W single HID kit




Okay... your SLA is fubar! 


Why? I run 55w HID kits in two different hosts and get around 30~50 minutes from each on a full charge, while a 55w draw on a 7Ah cell would consume 4.6Ah these ballasts really chew through a battery's capacity when starting up @ 12v~18.8v/5.3A~30A :thumbsup:




Professional's Favorite 17.5Mcp (host) @ 55w for 45~50 minutes MAX
Arlec RT3500 - (in series) 6v 4.2Ah SLA's 30 minutes


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 14, 2011)

BVH said:


> Ma Sha1, most of BatterySpace batteries that have an "equilibrium" feature, say it in their descriptions but this one does not. Since you have one, can you confirm that it does or does not balance the cells?
> 
> I guess if it does not and you have some proper sized shrink wrap on-hand, you could always remove the shrink, solder up a balancing tap pigtail with JST-XH 4S connector to the existing tabs and there ya go! (Or the balance pigtail of the charger you use) and reshrink it.
> 
> ...


 
I don't think there's balancing on this pack. But I like it being 4S2P 26650 pack, 
fewer batteries than 18650 packs & there are only two strings of batteries connected in parallel. Therre was something in the Maxa Beam battery pack that I re-used, might be reverse charging protection, I don't think it's got anything to do with balancing. 

Some 18650 chargers put 2P on the single channel to charge together, since they catch up under same end point voltage. By the same token, I wonder if the two parallel strings would be automatically balanced by end point voltage some how?
I.e one string stop charging after reaching the charger volts & the other string keep going & eventually catch up so both strings reach to same end point voltage?

I am not sure string to string variations is too much concern, perhaps I just need to make sure that they are fully charged from time to time, to allow one string to catch up with the other if slightly off. 

If one battery in the string goes bad, then it's [email protected] out of luck, but at least it's not li-ion & won't blow-up on me. 
*
BVH, * *
Can the balancing tap pigtail* *you mentioned balance the 4 batteries individually in the string? *

I have another 20AH Lifepo4 pack (Used in electric cars) that I use to drive both Mega Blaster & Moon blaster together, probably 300 watts worth of total power draw considering two 120w lamps & two ballasts runs together on it. If it's Li-ion, it'll probably pack enough danger to blow up my house


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## Richie086 (Mar 14, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> I have another 20AH Lifepo4 pack (Used in electric cars) that I use to drive both Mega Blaster & Moon blaster together, probably 300 watts worth of total power draw considering two 120w lamps & two ballasts runs together on it. If it's Li-ion, it'll probably pack enough danger to blow up my house


 

Hi Ma_Sha1,

That 20 Ah you have, that I've also been looking at, I remember you posted about it on another thread not long ago and is really an incredible LiFePo4 power house. As I recall, I don't believe it comes standard with any type of balancing either. Using it for what you do, it seems the LiFePo4 chemistry is very stable and with 2000 cycles, sounds like a great deal.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 14, 2011)

I posted the details of the 20AH battery in the Mega Blaster thread originally,
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-arc-mod-MegaRay-style&highlight=20ah+lifepo4

I build the portable pack to handle up to 400 Watts of power, so I don't need to keep upping packs mAH as my lights get more powerful with each mod. 

*Note it says 4 cells*. So it has only one string, not sure it'll need balancing.
Also, if they are safe enough for electric vehicle use, they must pass some stick safety regulations, so I felt safe using it. 

*Elite Power Solutions Lithium Iron Phosphate 4 cell battery pack of 20Ah capacity suitable for EV use*. 


LiFePO4 Chemistry
Nominal Capacity: 20Ah
Weight: 3.0 kg or 6.6 lbs
Dimension: 178x76x165 mm or 7.0x3.0x6.5 in
Operation Voltage Range: 10.0 to 17.0 V
Nominal Voltage: 12.8V (4x3.2 V)
Max Charging Current: 3C
Max Discharge Current: 3C (continuous) / 10C (pulsed)
Cycle Life: 2000 (80%DOD) / 3000 (70%DOD)
Operating Temperature: -25 to 75 C or -13 to 167 F
self Discharge Rate <3% monthly
BTW, this same Lifepo4 battery is $239 at *batteryspace*
http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4b...ongerlife.aspx

*I bought on ebay for $128 & My battery came in looks like this (identical to battery space one):*
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=693&OB=DESC
Which is different than the photo shown by the ebay seller. Ignore the ebay seller picture.


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## BVH (Mar 14, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> *
> BVH, * *
> Can the balancing tap pigtail* *you mentioned balance the 4 batteries individually in the string? *



Sure thing. It's a function of the balancing charger. All you need to provide is the initial - (ground) from the battery at Pin 1, then tie in a wire every cell-to-cell joint and finish with the last +. Then hook up the header to the balancing charger. IIRC, my PL8 can send as much as 1 Amp (maybe it's 3?) down each 22 or 24 awg wire to accomplish the balancing. It's a gas to watch it work on my PC with is PC software. It shows who's getting what, when and who's not. I've now got parallel charging boards with balancing taps so I can parallel charge multiple packs and balance them while doing so and I have up to 40 amp or 1344 Watts of charge power.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 14, 2011)

Thanks, I may have to look into it next time.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 28, 2011)

Got my new battery its installed and working great I ended up buying the same size battery only in lifepo4 hope to take it to the property this weekend for some beam shots the big 9 " reflector throws out a ton of light


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 28, 2011)

so everyone can find the battery I am using here is a link I also bought the charger thats listed lower down the page
http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...with10timeslongerlifeand597lighterweight.aspx

Joe


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 28, 2011)

some pictures of my new HID beast 














Beam shots in the house








Has a nice tight hotspot at 10 feet 

Joe


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## Richie086 (Mar 28, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> some pictures of my new HID beast
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Hi Joe,

Looks to me you did a great job on the focus, very nice. When you get a chance, I'm sure everyone would love to see some outdoor beam shots.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 28, 2011)

the focus was a bit tricky had to put a Milled down washer between the reflector and bulb to get it rite then cut new slots for the bulb to lock into. Im building an adjustable focuses for the light but wanted to get it powered up before I proceed. If the weather holds out I may hit the local park for some beam shots, my property would be better as there is no ambient light other then stars hehe I plan on going to the property this weekend so no matter what it will be done by sunday at the latest.


Joe


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## jayflash (Mar 29, 2011)

7Ah SLA's are under a lot of stress even with 35W HID lamps. I installed a 3.5mm power jack on my HID lights so I can parallel another 7Ah or other battery for stationary use. I put polarity marked slip-on connectors for the battery end and about 6' of 16ga flexible wire to the mating plug for a couple hours of run time for events where not much movement is required. A vehicle's power port will work well too, if you don't need to carry the light.

SLA's must be in good condition and maintained when not used. I slow charge mine and the spares two or three times a year until they reach ~14.5v and occasionally put them under load and recharge slowly.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 29, 2011)

Exactly why I chose a Lithium they hold there high state of charge for much longer then Standard SLA batteries do, so far the battery I choose is performing great.
I also like how much lighter it is I do have the light set up in bypass to allow for use on the cars cigarette lighter but will mostly be using this while in the field.

Joe


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## jayflash (Mar 30, 2011)

Yes, the lithium solution seems like the best, providing it's worth the investment. Because I don't frequently carry my HIDs and have, essentially, free SLA's, I'm holding off. I'm sure it would be worthwhile to use lithiums if any amount of carry time is necessary. I'll have to check on prices occasionally and maybe try to snag a deal. It would be nice not to have to baby the SLA's and try preventing sulfation.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 30, 2011)

there are chargers that desulfate lead acid batteries. I have one hooked up to my Bike battery. An SLA can be charged with a conventional car battery charger provided it has small amp charge feature. I have charged them at 12v 2amp with no issues. 


Joe


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## 2100 (Mar 31, 2011)

Nice, didn't know that you are working on this. 

You parallel chinese Li-ion, no issue at startup? Coz read up someone saying that the internal wiring is worse than like 20ga.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 31, 2011)

Nope I decided to just buy a lifepo4 the packs I got did run the light but got hot so I'm betting the wiring is an issue they are fairly small wires I will be using them on a lesser project after a swap out the little wires for some multi strand 14 awg I am waiting for the weekend to shoot some beamshots at my property


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 7, 2011)

Couldnt wait to go to my property I decided to unleash the light on a warehouse at work lol Pictures dont do it justice
327yards





62 yards






Joe


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## Richie086 (Apr 7, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> Couldnt wait to go to my property I decided to unleash the light on a warehouse at work lol Pictures dont do it justice.
> 
> 
> Joe


 


Really great hot spot and very usable spill. Nice job, Joe.


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 7, 2011)

Richie Thank you Modding the cyclops was a good decission as the light wans't even close to the rated 15Mcp Hell it wasn't even 1 Mcp as compared to my Maxmillion spotlight and I doubt even that one is 1Mcp. Cant wait to take it to the property this weekend.


Joe


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## 2100 (Apr 8, 2011)

Great, use the same pictures. They are all 1/8", f3.1, ISO400 same as the ones with the X6, 50W HID, Dereelights. However the close up 62 yards picture here is somewhat darker like 2/3 stops comparatively, 1/2", f3.1, ISO64.

Is that a 55W?


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 8, 2011)

yep thats my 55W HID mod to the cyclops I dont know what all the camera talk is tho lol I have an Olympus FE 170 digital camera all I know how to do is point and shoot it has settings for adjusting ISO and such but I have no idea how to do it I bought the camera because it has the image stabilization feature. I leave it on auto. The pic's are from the same place and exact same parking spot just taken on different days. The Cyclops put some serious light out with it's big 9" reflector


Joe


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## 2100 (Apr 8, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> yep thats my 55W HID mod to the cyclops I dont know what all the camera talk is tho lol I have an Olympus FE 170 digital camera all I know how to do is point and shoot it has settings for adjusting ISO and such but I have no idea how to do it I bought the camera because it has the image stabilization feature. I leave it on auto. The pic's are from the same place and exact same parking spot just taken on different days. The Cyclops put some serious light out with it's big 9" reflector
> Joe


 
If its really dark, "Auto" will probably lock it to a default of 1/8 seconds, f3.1, ISO400. If it gets brighter then the settings will change. What this means is that a 400W Cyclops looks nearly the same as your Trustfire X6 if you do not do manual.
Eg, auto trans car, manual trans car.  If you do a slow 15kph (too dark), it'd be in 1st gear, auto or manual.


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 9, 2011)

I dug out the manual for the camera before I left to go to my property was reading it a bit last night. will try to learn how to set it for better pictures in the dark.

Joe


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 10, 2011)

Ok only had a couple pics come out this weekend tat were good pic's first on
Cyclops MOD to 55W HID 342 Yards




Cyclops Mod 55W HID 810 Yards





Joe


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