# Why budget lights for you?



## LEDrock (Apr 11, 2011)

I've only had budget lights so far and never paid past $10. I've gotten some on sale for that price that were worth more sometimes. After reading threads in the main forums about lights like those from Surefire and Fenix and 4Sevens, I have to wonder just how much better they are and if they're worth the extra money.

I'd like to ask those of you here in the "budget light" forum if you've always been into the budget lights, or were you once a fan of the more expensive ones and decided they weren't worth all that money. 

I'm currently considering making the leap into something like the Quark 2AA for $60. It's the one I've dreamed of getting, but fear that I'd be kicking my self later because I spent so much money on a single flashlight--or would I say to myself, "Now I know why people like these so much!", and then view my cheaper lights as junk?

What's your experience?


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## aivn (Apr 11, 2011)

This thread is going to be epic


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## ragweed (Apr 11, 2011)

As long as the light meets your needs it is a good light. IMO


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## LEDrock (Apr 11, 2011)

ragweed said:


> As long as the light meets your needs it is a good light. IMO



Well, all my 19 budget lights pretty much meet my needs, and I can't imagine they wouldn't meet just about ANYbody's needs. So I'm wondering if the more expensive ones are mostly for meeting _wants_, rather than needs. Kind of like a Rolex versus a Timex.


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## pobox1475 (Apr 11, 2011)

LEDrock said:


> What's your experience?


 _You get what you pay for._


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## LEDrock (Apr 11, 2011)

pobox1475 said:


> _You get what you pay for._



Understood. But I guess what I'd like to know is whether people in this forum (budget lights) have had experience with the more expensive ones and decided they'd rather have the cheaper ones because they thought the others were just too much for what you get, etc.) or for some other reason. Both types have their fans, but I'd just like to know why.


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## DaveyJones (Apr 11, 2011)

i am one of those people.
after being amazed at what cool lights i could buy for very little money, i became curious like you.
after watching reviews on youtube i decided that $50 was a reasonable price for the features that it bought.
i love gadgets in general, especially quality ones, and as it turns out that allot of high end flashlights were actually 
well within my modest budget.
so i ended up buying one i thought was nice: the fenix ld20.
what it has that my cheaper lights dont:
-performance, brighter, longer runtimes
-more modes, all of my cheap ones are on/off only
-better water resistance (ipx8 vs ipx4 on some of my cheaper lights)
-more size weight efficient
-better design (tailstand, lanyard hole, access to switch, that kinda stuff)
-higher confidence in using non standard batteries (by the same token as never using cheap li-ion cells, i wouldnt put good ones in a cheap light either)
-accessories, some of the better brands like fenix and 4sevens have a bunch of really usefull ones.

this and prolly some stuff i missed are all reasons i have zero regrets buying my ld20, that i bought an additional Olight, and am looking
at several other brands atm despite the fact that im prettymuch broke atm 

seriously dude, if u like cheapo lights so much u have 10 of them...
just buy the light.


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## ^Gurthang (Apr 11, 2011)

Bottom line for me..... I like to take stuff apart and customize it. I wouldn't spend $$ on a "good" light and then tear into it. If I really really needed a top-shelf light to stake my life on, a Sure Fire 1st time, no hesitation.


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## LEDrock (Apr 11, 2011)

DaveyJones said:


> i am one of those people.
> after being amazed at what cool lights i could buy for very little money, i became curious like you.
> after watching reviews on youtube i decided that $50 was a reasonable price for the features that it bought.
> i love gadgets in general, especially quality ones, and as it turns out that allot of high end flashlights were actually
> ...



Interesting insight! I'm glad the expensive light you referred to was the LD20, since that was almost my first dream light. Actually, the first was the Fenix LD2, the first cree of its type, only to be improved by the LD20. I hear the Quark 2AA is an improvement over even that one, which is why it would be my choice.

The real reason why I have so many lights (19) is because they were available at very special prices (such as free after mail-in rebate at Menards). It's hard to pass up a deal like that! I've been impressed with some of them, but my curiosity remains about those high-end ones, which is why I thought I'd ask. I really wish flashlights were something you could at least handle before buying. Being in packages at stores, that's not the case. It certainly isn't the case with ones found only on the internet.


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## subwoofer (Apr 11, 2011)

After many years away from buying torches, I came back into it cautiously with several ultrafires and other cheap lights, then I found CPF...... These lights have been great, but got me wanting more, and I ended up spending more (not nearly as much as some).

Despite now owning torches from 4sevens, Nitecore, Fenix and Zebralight, there is still a place for my budget lights, including brands such as Aurora, Ultrafire and MTE.

My favourite torch is the Nitecore IFD2 and the quality is really noticeable, surprisingly, even non-torch people have guessed the price of the Nitecore and appreciate the quality.

The budget lights are more the workhorses and I carry the Quark AA Regular as a backup along with a Fenix LD10 or Zebralight H51. I would say the quality and performance of these lights is worth it, but the lack of worry for the budget ones makes them the ones used the most.

My most expensive 'budget' light is a xeccon 65W HID, which at £150 is only budget on the scale of what you get for the money. This is an awesome light canon with easily the 6000lm specified (it makes a verified 760lm Aurora SH-40 SST-50 torch look as if it is off) and is an example of a budget light (albeit not $10) with amazing performance and value for money.

For me it is just the same with lights as it is with anything else. Sometimes it is fine to buy something from the pound shop as it does the job, but if you want something that will really last and perform better you have to pay more.


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## pobox1475 (Apr 11, 2011)

LEDrock said:


> Understood. But I guess what I'd like to know is whether people in this forum (budget lights) have had experience with the more expensive ones and decided they'd rather have the cheaper ones because they thought the others were just too much for what you get, etc.) or for some other reason. Both types have their fans, but I'd just like to know why.
> 
> I really wish flashlights were something you could at least handle before buying. Being in packages at stores, that's not the case. It certainly isn't the case with ones found only on the internet.


 I can say an argument can be made that I have too many light and don't _need _them all. They fall into various price point groups. I do know that when a light *is needed* it better work as it is supposed to. Generally the better the quality, the higher the cost. The confidence factor and build qualities are worth it to me.

I'm not saying in any wave, shape, or form that lower cost lights are poorly made or unreliable. Just personally the mid-priced ones offer the best _value_ to me.

Some of the light reviews in here tell way more than holding one for an hour is store would reveal ;~)


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## gcbryan (Apr 11, 2011)

I received a Surefire 6P incandescent as a gift as well as a Fenix L2D or something like that (2 AAA light). I've never been all that impressed with the Surefire. I'm finally getting around to replacing the 80 lumen original bulb with a XM-L dropin. As it is...I just never use it.

The apparent quality of the workmanship and finish of both lights was good. I actually found the Fenix to be more useful. It had good throw so I left it in the car to help find street addresses at night.

Since then I've bought quite a few budget lights. They have all been brighter and with more features. They have all worked. The quality is fine. The finish in most cases wasn't quite as nice but to me that's not important. They're only flashlights after all. I don't collect or display them.

It really probably depends on how much you are into flashlights as either gadgets or how much you "depend" on them (for work perhaps).

Many people have both budget and more expensive lights. I've taken some inexpensive bodies and put more expensive dropins in them as well as replacing reverse clicky switches with forward switches.

In my case, in general, I'd rather have a few different types of inexpensive lights than fewer expensive lights. I use the light that's near me! I don't have any great need for a flashlight at all. They are just handy to have. 

Budget lights are good in that you don't worry too much if you lose them or if you abuse them.

If you are really into lights including the look and the user interface then you will probably appreciate the differences in the more expensive lights.

I will say that for me the answer sometimes is somewhere between expensive and budget. I buy Thrunite drop ins rather than those from DX because I don't want all of the strobe modes. Sometimes it's hard to find DX drop ins that can take (2) CR123's without burning up as well.

I have a 3 mode single AAA light from ITP (A3 extended) that is one of my favorite lights. It was about $23. A more expensive version of that would do nothing for me.


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## dando (Apr 11, 2011)

budget means different $ to different people...


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## Mike_TX (Apr 12, 2011)

Since I could never justify buying an "expensive' light (I don't need one for personal defense, military, police or firefighter use, etc.), budget lights have allowed me to have some really powerful flashlights withut breaking the bank. I've ended up spending a couple hundred dollars on budget lights, batteries and chargers, but I have a dozen or more instead of the one that money would have bought me in the premium flashlight market. And all my cheapie lights work like gangbusters.

Without budget lights I wouldn't be in the modern flashlight game at all.

.
.


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## subwoofer (Apr 12, 2011)

Mike_TX said:


> Without budget lights I wouldn't be in the modern flashlight game at all.


 
Hear Hear


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## richpalm (Apr 12, 2011)

Mike_TX said:


> I have a dozen or more instead of the one that money would have bought me in the premium flashlight market. And all my cheapie lights work like gangbusters.
> 
> Without budget lights I wouldn't be in the modern flashlight game at all.
> 
> ...



Same here... I just can't see that kind of expense for custom lights. I don't get them to just sit in a safe or for me to worry about loss/breakage... besides, the real satisfaction is with modding and building my own. Solarforce really opened this up for me... scratch it up or lose it? Get another nice host for $25.

Rich


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## LEDrock (Apr 12, 2011)

richpalm said:


> Same here... I just can't see that kind of expense for custom lights. I don't get them to just sit in a safe or for me to worry about loss/breakage... besides, the real satisfaction is with modding and building my own. Solarforce really opened this up for me... scratch it up or lose it? Get another nice host for $25.
> 
> Rich



Can Solarforce "flashlights" be bought, and not just as parts? I checked out a website for them and everything seems to be parts and dropins and hosts. Are there actually assembled lights that are sold? Also, they seem to be pretty much be CR123. I was hoping to find a AA model.


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## richpalm (Apr 12, 2011)

LEDrock said:


> Are there actually assembled lights that are sold? Also, they seem to be pretty much be CR123. I was hoping to find a AA model.



Yes-just check at Lighthound and/or SB Flashlights for U.S. dealers, solarforcesales.com in China if you wanna wait a month.

Rich


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## Rod911 (Apr 13, 2011)

If something stuffs up when I do an emitter swap (I am a very noob modder), it won't be much of an issue as the replacement cost of a budget light is not much at all.

It's a good way for me to play around with my soldering iron.


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## trooplewis (Apr 13, 2011)

I have a Pelican M6 that is built like a tank compared to the budget lights I own. But the budget lights are WAY brighter than the Pelican, at least they were until I dropped an XM-L into it.

To answer the OP more directly, for me at least is would be insane in this economy to spend $100+ on a light, unless my life or my job depended on it.
The cheap Chinese lights generally work well, have comparable brightness to the expensive ones. Now if I was on patrol as a cop or in Iraq, I'd probably spend all the money on the best light I could find. But since it is just a hobby, I like having a wide variety of nominally-priced flashlights that I can take apart and swap around at will.

Oh, and yes, there are several sites that sell complete Solarforce lights, I think it's about 30 bucks for one with a nice emitter.


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## shao.fu.tzer (Apr 13, 2011)

I keep the good lights nearby in case I need them. I use the cheap lights as beaters, loaners, and work lights.


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## Brian10962001 (Apr 14, 2011)

I understand the fundamentals of what makes a light. Back in the day Mag Lite was king of the mid line working class lights. I had the biggest wildest Mag Lights out (the 6 C cell and 6 D cell, this was before Mag Charger or any of that). Plus spot lights and various other things. For me now that I'm grown I know what makes a light, and budget lights have all of the things that make them fun. Plus with technology advancing so fast it's awesome to have something that's older, out dated, but was a bargain when you got it  Imagine all the people with big money incans that were top of the line a few years back LOL.


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## mfm (Apr 14, 2011)

richpalm said:


> solarforcesales.com in China if you wanna wait a month.


 
More like a week or less.



LEDrock said:


> Can Solarforce "flashlights" be bought, and not just as parts? I checked out a website for them and everything seems to be parts and dropins and hosts. Are there actually assembled lights that are sold? Also, they seem to be pretty much be CR123. I was hoping to find a AA model.


 
Check these for example:

http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=LF&s=31&id=150
http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=LF&s=31&id=151
http://www.solarforce-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=LF&s=31&id=114


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## ronl (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm definitely in the same boat as Mike_TX in that I would not be in the modern flashlight game without budget lights. It all started with a Google search for Cree (researching LED aquarium lighting) where I came across a CPF discussion on the Husky 2D 4W Cree on clearance for $14 at Home Depot. At first I thought it was funny that there was a discussion forum on flashlights. Then I found myself searching 4-5 Home Depots for the elusive Husky clearance light before I finally found one. Wife thought I was crazy for spending $14 on a flashlight.

Then I came across the Husky's little brother, 3AAA 3W Cree, on clearance for $6 and just had to get it so I would have a matching set. The smaller Husky was too big for pocket carrying, so next up was an Akoray K-106 3-mode programmable from KD for $15 or so. Wife was really getting worried now. 

To ease her mind, I then picked up a River Rock 3AAA Cree mini lantern on clearance at Target for $6 for her Girl Scout troop camping trips. It was such a good price that I just had to pick up a second one for the house in case of power outages.

Finally decided the Akoray was too big for everyday pocket carrying and wanted a 1AAA light. So I picked up an ITP A3 EOS for ~$24 and had to get a second one in purple for the wife's purse so she wouldn't kill me.

Not being a police officer, fire fighter, or in the military, I don't think I will ever buy or need anything more expensive than the ITP A3 EOS. But I sure do love my budget lights and can't imagine I will need anything more than the ones I have. It's even better when you can find nice lights on clearance.

Ron


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## LEDrock (Apr 14, 2011)

mfm said:


> More like a week or less.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whoa! Now those look like REAL bargains! 320 lumens from 2AA batteries for $20-$30! Am I reading that right?


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## black_ice_pc (Apr 14, 2011)

I personally started out buying only budget lights like Ultrafire, Trustfire etc. They were crap and only one of the maybe 15 I bought still works. Total price spent on them was in the hundreds. Then I bought a Quark Turbo 123^2. Works perfect, all the time every time. So I bought a Preon 2. Same story, always works with no problems. Then I was given a neutral Quark 123. Same. Plus all the modes and programing make them very much more usable for different tasks. One light can hit a target 200M away or it can be used to read a book in pitch black 2' from your face. 

My point is, a higher quality light will actually save you money in the long run. Not a crazy high end one, they're more for the collectors and serious enthusiasts. Plus they provide additional usability, so you get more light for your $$.


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## black_ice_pc (Apr 14, 2011)

LEDrock said:


> Whoa! Now those look like REAL bargains! 320 lumens from 2AA batteries for $20-$30! Am I reading that right?


There's no way it'll actually hit that lm. Unfortunately Solarforce plays the imaginary lumens game, where they state theoretical maximums instead of the true lumens. Solarforce is definitely known as a good budget/midrange company though. I personally have my eyes on a Skyline 1 and a Masterpiece Pro 1.


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## LEDrock (Apr 14, 2011)

black_ice_pc said:


> There's no way it'll actually hit that lm. Unfortunately Solarforce plays the imaginary lumens game, where they state theoretical maximums instead of the true lumens. Solarforce is definitely known as a good budget/midrange company though. I personally have my eyes on a Skyline 1 and a Masterpiece Pro 1.


 
Yeah, the reason I was asking about Solarforce is because there seems to be more posts about it than anything else here in the "budget forum" so I figured people were on to something here. It sounds like it just might be the hottest thing, although their lumens count may not be very honest.


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## ElectronGuru (Apr 14, 2011)

black_ice_pc said:


> I personally started out buying only budget lights like Ultrafire, Trustfire etc. They were crap and only one of the maybe 15 I bought still works. Total price spent on them was in the hundreds.


 


LEDrock said:


> Yeah, the reason I was asking about Solarforce is because there seems to be more posts about it than anything else here in the "budget forum" so I figured people were on to something here.


 
The general goal with budget lights is to get the lowest price, without going so cheap that it fails under normal use. You see this in thread after thread of 'found this great price but worried it will break'. 

In the spectrum of prices from free all the way up to installment plan, brands cheap enough to buy without _concern_ but expensive enough to keep running for most customers most of the time (use without _concern_), strike a balance. The balance of _concerns_, avoiding the twin regrets of spending to much and spending to little.


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## thedukeoftank (Apr 14, 2011)

I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've purchased cheap knives or flashlights and have come to regret it. 

When I was little, I went to various gun and knife shows with my grandfather. He has always been an avid outdoorsman and shooter (and flashaholic come to think about it) and so naturally I followed in that path as well. Now, as a young boy, I had to have every. gadget I could find. I purchased numerous pocket knives & trinkets at those shows. Almost every single time I would get ready to spend the little money I had on some random Chinese knife or multi tool, my grandfather would pull me aside and say, "don't you wanna save your money to get something better? That thing will just break on you in a few weeks".But being the impatient little boy I was, I couldn't wait. 

Now, a few years later, we were in the situation that I had aways found myself in. I wanted something cheap but my Grandfather advised against it. That time I took his advice and waited until the next show when I bought a Buck 110 folder. Funny thing is that I remember breaking or loosing all of those Chinese made cheapos, but now at 25, that Buck knife is sitting next to my other knives in my collection at home. 

Same happened to me in regards to flashlights, I always have had flashlights. I rely heavily on flashlights for work so they see a bit of abuse. I got sick and tired of buying a $20 flashlight every few months. I never knew about these other brands until I watched a video review of the 4sevens Quark AA2 tactical by Nutnfancy. I am pleased to say that I have had this light for a year or so now and its still kicking. (It looks like it is 5+ years old now because of the work time it sees though) 

Now, it's kind of a long story just to say that you get what you pay for, but it is too true to be ignored. 

I hope to pass many of these tools down to my children some day and with a little regular maintenance, I'll be able to. 

Just ask the Victorinox Swiss Champ that I received for my 7th birthday... he's right here next to me


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## black_ice_pc (Apr 14, 2011)

ElectronGuru said:


> The general goal with budget lights is to get the lowest price, without going so cheap that it fails under normal use. You see this in thread after thread of 'found this great price but worried it will break'.
> 
> In the spectrum of prices from free all the way up to installment plan, brands cheap enough to buy without _concern_ but expensive enough to keep running for most customers most of the time (use without _concern_), strike a balance. The balance of _concerns_, avoiding the twin regrets of spending to much and spending to little.


 
Well said. It should also be noted that a person's definition of "budget" lights may differ widely. Some may see $20 as alot when you can buy a neon plastic thingy from walmart for $4. Others spend $1000+ on a light, and things like 4Sevens would be considered budget. I'd say Solarforce is a good balance for the budget minded between quality and price. They're cheap, but decent quality. 

If you're looking at super low budget, Tank007 makes decent lights (including the one budget light I still own that works!), and there's some Ultrafire that's ok. But most anything that's ---fire = crap, excluding Surefire of course!


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## jondotcom (Apr 15, 2011)

I fell in love with the surefire 6p but realized it was a hot chick with a bad attitude and no libido. I'm now married to solarforce lights, but I am a polygamist and have several. My favorite is the L2i so I can use multiple battery options and I like the thicker body.


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## gcbryan (Apr 15, 2011)

I'm still trying to like my Surefire 6P but it's hard. It's not bright, it only has a momentary switch, can't take 18650's and if you keep the light in a drawer and the momentary switch touches anything...the light turns on and depletes the battery.

To keep the light on you have to use two hands to screw the tail cap down.

Why is it I'm supposed to like this thing?


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## richpalm (Apr 15, 2011)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Solarforce... I have ~15 hosts with dropins that I built. The L2P is a great looking host; all but two of mine are L2P's and I love 'em. The trick is to have a good dropin because these hosts are more than up to the task. A couple are set up for 4.2A and everything works fine, including the stock clickie.

With a triple XPG dropin, I built the whole light and dropin for less than $75.00, battery included, and I love doing it... why spend big bucks that I don't have anyway when I can get the satisfaction of rolling my own? (and pimpin' 'em out?)

Rich


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## trooplewis (Apr 15, 2011)

I find it ironic that Solarforce (the original P60 Clone) is so good that now other Chinese mfg's are making fake Solarforce lights.
Solarforce is good stuff, if you don't want to have a hundred bucks (or more) invested in every light you own. Even Ultrafire 502, 503, 504's are decent stuff for everyday play. They run about 10 bucks per host.

I do love the "you get what you pay for" argument. Yeah, to a point. But not everyone on the freeway drives a BMW or Cadillac, but they all seem to be keeping up just fine, with half the maintenance of the expensive boys. I know my Pelican is the funkiest looking light I own, because Pelican stopped making silver tailcaps, so mine has a black replacement tailcap on it now. Along with a Thrunite XM-L drop-in, which is sooooo much brighter than the Luxeon that was in it.


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## Kindle (Apr 16, 2011)

gcbryan said:


> I'm still trying to like my Surefire 6P but it's hard. It's not bright, it only has a momentary switch, can't take 18650's and if you keep the light in a drawer and the momentary switch touches anything...the light turns on and depletes the battery.


 
If only Surefire could come up with something like...oh I don't know...a patented lock out tailcap perhaps. :shakehead


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## mccririck (Apr 17, 2011)

I have 4 budget lights, I use them for work every day and none are "crap" and none have failed. And I'm glad they're budget as it means if I lose one and can replace it easily.

It would be nice to have a £50 flashlight but I cannot justify the cost when the lights I have just now are perfectly good.


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## jbrett14 (Apr 17, 2011)

LEDrock said:


> I have to wonder just how much better they are and if they're worth the extra money.
> 
> What's your experience?



Although you do tend to get what you pay for, that is not always true. E.g. it's quit possible that a $5 flashlight COULD outlast a $100 flashlight. I've read enough posts in the other forum to know that many fellows have had failures with their higher end lights. Of course, this is not normally the case, but it's possible. 

There is also a threshold in which folks start throwing their money away. E.g. I seriously doubt that a $300 light is twice as good as a $150 light, in most cases. Likewise, possibly, for a $50 light compared to a $25 light. Depends on the light.

Now, to compare "budget" lights (under $20 ?) with perceived higher end lights. Most of my purchases had been on budget lights until about 7 years ago when I bought my first Streamlight for around $30. Was it worth it. Absolutley. I found it to be far superior than any of the common brands found on store shelves, AT THE TIME. But since that time I have gone from Streamlights to Zebralight, Fenix, etc. My very first higher end light, say, over $50, was my Fenix TK30 which I purchased about a year ago. Was it worth the $120? At the time I thought so. But since then, plenty of other equally good flashlights have come out, some of which are half the cost. The point: it's not worth it to buy the latest and greatest. It's better to wait until less expensive models come out, if one is on a budget.

Is the quality that much better? yes, but not always, and it's probably not a needed difference. Given the fact that most of us are wanting to replace our brightest lights with the newest brightest lights, usually every couple years, does it really matter. We often get caught up in wanting the brightest flashlight of the "best" quality and yet the light really only needs to last until technology comes out with something "better" (a year or two). This is true at any price level. E.g. today you can get a $5 light the size of your hand that far outshines an old D-sized Mag for $30. And even if it only lasts a year, so what, you can buy another one and it will likely be even brighter and better than the one you had before, for the same price.

Now, having said this, from my experience there IS a difference in the quality of beams, but I'm not sure it's worth the extra money for the average homeowner, camper, hiker, etc. Let's face it, most of the real life times when we need light, it's not gonna matter whether we had a $5 source for light or a $150 source for light, we just need it to lighten up what is otherwise too dark to see. This can be accomplished with just about any budget light. 

For me, I wish I hadn't ever bought the Fenix. Oh, not because it wasn't worth it, but because I became addicted to the higher end light. It is an addiction you know. It's not about NEEDING those extra lumens or the near perfect beam of light, it's about satisfying our perception of perfection. It never ends. And for those of us who are "perfectionists", it's a "need".

Stick with the budget lights unless you have money to burn. It's a costly addiction. I sometimes find myself wanting to go back to "budget" lights but can't, due to my addiction to have a better quality light, even though I KNOW that light will only need to last 2 or 3 years. It's the "perfectionist" in me. A curse?

Here is a perfect example of how it can be a waste of money to buy higher end lights: Several years ago, while shopping at Cabela's, I bought three 1-watt Luxeon flashlights on sale in their Bargain Cave for around $25 each. They were normally like $50 lights, so of course I wanted to take advantage of these very high quality lights. Today, they are a joke compared to even my little 1 x AAA keychain flashlight (iTP A3 EOS). The point is, like I said, whether we buy budget lights or higher end lights, we DON'T need them to last forever. Therefore all the hype about any higher end light that can stand up to years and years of abuse is pointless since it will be surpassed by technology. I now have those 3 Cabela's lights and do not even use them. They are in MINT condition and of excellent quality (construction) yet I probably couldn't get $10 for them because of how far technology has come. I've seen $5 lights outshine them.

Sorry I wrote so much, but wanted to help.

Jonny


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## Mike_TX (Apr 17, 2011)

Totally agree with jbrett - there is definitely a point of diminishing returns on flashlights, just like with anything else. Few will argue with the notion that a Mercedes is higher-quality than a Toyota ... but few will ever wear out a Mercedes, either. And you still see one in the shop every now and then, so they DO still break down just like Toyotas. 

The point is that Mercedes cars are generally over-engineered, just as some high-end lights are. Is a higher-gauge aluminum in the barrel, or a thicker anodizing going to really make a difference to most of us? I doubt it. Do some of the higher-end lights have better QC and maybe more careful assembly? Probably. But how much difference is that going to make to most of us? More importantly, is it worth paying 5 or 10 times the price for the big-name lights? For most of us, the answer is no. 

I don't drive a Mercedes and I don't run $150 flashlights. And you know what? I'm doing fine. :thumbsup:

.
.


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## LEDrock (Apr 17, 2011)

Well, my current favorite is my Ray O Vac 1 watt 2AA. It has a luxeon. Not the greatest, by any means, but it's my first and only Luxeon. Super deal at $5 after a rebate at Menards. Normally was around $13. I love the momentary switch and pretty much everything else about it. It's 45 lumens, which of course makes me wonder what the 185 lumens of something like a Quark 2AA would be like. I have reservations about a multi-level light though. Seems so much more complicated to use than my momentary swithced ROV. I know the Tactical version is more like what I have, but I suspect that I'd feel "cheated" out of all but 2 levels since it can only be programmed for 2 at once.


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## jbrett14 (Apr 17, 2011)

Personally, I don't like all the multi-levels of lights. It's more of a gadget than a real life need. My Fenix TK30 for example, RARELY is in any mode but HIGH. That's why I bought it, for a LOT of light (630 lumens). It makes no sense to me to use this size light for reading a book, for example, when I have plenty of 1 x AAA lights that would work much better for this.

So is 45 lumens your brightest light? If so, you would be AMAZED at the better lights. Suggestion: buy at least ONE iTP A3 EOS light for around $15. It's a little 1 x AAA light that puts out approx. 80 lumens of light. It will blow you away that such a small light can do this. 

Also, if you are interested I am about to unload a bunch of older lights that I never really used much. I have several Streamlight Stylus Pros (2 of which were never used), a MicroStream, some Princeton Tec incan lights, and some headlights. I was going to sell them as a lot on ebay. I would sell them at a very reasonable cost if your interested. I hate that they just sit there, unused. I even have the Princeton Tec Surge, which is a very bright incan waterproof light (a dive light) that runs on 8 x AA's. I may be selling the SL Stylus Pros individually, depening on if the first one gets any bids. It's still considered a very nice light. I actually LOVE this light, but since spending a little more, I don't need them. I think they are around $25 brand new. I was going to list the first one (never used) for $10. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it.


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## jbrett14 (Apr 17, 2011)

Mike_TX said:


> The point is that Mercedes cars are generally over-engineered, just as some high-end lights are..


 
FOR SURE!


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## mccririck (Apr 18, 2011)

Many high end lights are over-engineered to the point of actually offering no performance benefit - titanium lights for example are fairly pointless.


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## jbrett14 (Apr 18, 2011)

mccririck said:


> titanium lights for example are fairly pointless.


 
As are lights with 20 different blinking modes.


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## mccririck (Apr 20, 2011)

jbrett14 said:


> As are lights with 20 different blinking modes.


 
True, but that doesn't actually cost much to implement, try machining titanium.


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## RWT1405 (Apr 20, 2011)

+1 thedukeoftank

I was ALWAYS taught that if you buy cheap, you buy twice. 

My .02 FWIW YMMV


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## Mike_TX (Apr 20, 2011)

RWT1405 said:


> +1 thedukeoftank
> 
> I was ALWAYS taught that if you buy cheap, you buy twice.
> 
> My .02 FWIW YMMV



Yep, but the corollary to that is that if you pay too much, you've wasted good money.

It kinda comes down to what is "cheap" and what is a fair price. If the Chinese makers can sell a decent product for $10, it's silly to pay $20 for essentially the same thing under a different brand name. I'm all for the free and open market concept, and if some guy can mark a product up and still sell it, good for him. By the same token, if people will buy a pretty, over-engineered product at a higher than necessary price, that's their choice.

The concept of budget lights is not that we're buying cheap trash - it's that we are savvy buyers getting a functional product at a bargain price. I know my dozen+ budget lights have been bulletproof so far. I can find guys who bought premium lights and had problems, so I figure I'm ahead of the game. Cheap implies substandard quality, and I'm looking at nicely-machined barrels and bezels, nice (even if not mil-spec or aircraft quality) threads and finish, and completely functional electrics and assembly, combined with American-made Cree emitters. All for maybe 15 bucks. What's not to like? 

.
.


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## slipe (Apr 20, 2011)

RWT1405 said:


> +1 thedukeoftank
> 
> I was ALWAYS taught that if you buy cheap, you buy twice.
> 
> My .02 FWIW YMMV



But the second one a couple of years later has the latest technology and will outshine the 2 year old lifetime investment light.

My first T6 came in a couple of weeks ago. It is a budget light but is a real burner. To get that output 2 years ago in a high quality light would have cost a fortune (to me) and definitely wouldn't fit in my jeans pocket.


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## mccririck (Apr 20, 2011)

RWT1405 said:


> +1 thedukeoftank
> 
> I was ALWAYS taught that if you buy cheap, you buy twice.
> 
> My .02 FWIW YMMV



Not always true. Do a bit of research before your purchase and you wont go too far wrong. As I've already said, i have 4 budget lights and they are all working well on a day to day work basis. I wouldnt want to lose or drop an expensive flashlight and end up wasting £50


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## RWT1405 (Apr 20, 2011)

Sorry, but I'm a Paramedic/Firefighter/Tactical Medic and CCW holder. I will NOT trust MY light needs to a cheap flashlight. Feel free to do so, if you wish.

My .02 FWIW YMMV


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## mvyrmnd (Apr 20, 2011)

I've gone a little bit both ways.

I use Solarforce bodies - I find them well built enough to stand up to my needs, and inexpensive enough that I can buy a few different ones to experiment a bit. Plus I like the look of them. Then I put a $130 dropin in them :devil:

Early in my flashaholic career I bought a lot of "cheap" lights from the usual suspects. I had a few fail, I had a few that were rubbish, and I had a few that were excellent. In my experience, the first thing you sacrifice with a "cheap" light is consistency. 

The big advantage of having access to inexpensive lights is that you can afford to buy a whole bunch of them, and decide on which form factor, emitter, tint, etc. that most appeals to you. You can experiment before possibly deciding to invest in a more expensive light.


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## thedukeoftank (Apr 20, 2011)

I have no problem with well built lights that are in an affordable price range... my 4sevens Quark AA2 turbo is the furthest thing from a "cheap light", but it is much less expensive than many other "high end" lights out there.

On the other hand, I don't think that I'll ever buy a Surefire light. Being wise with your money also means knowing when you are over paying.


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## slipe (Apr 20, 2011)

RWT1405 said:


> Sorry, but I'm a Paramedic/Firefighter/Tactical Medic and CCW holder. I will NOT trust MY light needs to a cheap flashlight. Feel free to do so, if you wish.
> 
> My .02 FWIW YMMV



Do you really think the people posting on this thread are Paramedic/Firefighter/Tactical Medics and CCW holders?

I flew fighters and put new batteries in and checked my light before every mission. It saved my life one dark night when I had a complete electrical failure. But in those days I'm sure I wouldn't have been dumb enough to tell someone about to walk their dog that their life depended on fresh batteries and checking their flashlight before going out because of my requirements.


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## pobox1475 (Apr 20, 2011)

I started out on _*the*_ slippery slope about twenty years ago with this;







*It set me back around 200 bucks that was a lot to me beck then. I had strongly needed a good thrower for pizza delivery and it saw lots of use. When the NiCad failed a polite call to manufacturer and a replacement was in hand days later (N/C). When the head finally burned out another enthusiastic call and I was back up and running in under a week (again N/C). The point I have is that although you may pay for higher quality at diminishing returns pricing the manufacturers generally go a long way with after sale support. This is added value to me.*


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## mccririck (Apr 21, 2011)

RWT1405 said:


> Sorry, but I'm a Paramedic/Firefighter/Tactical Medic and CCW holder. I will NOT trust MY light needs to a cheap flashlight. Feel free to do so, if you wish.
> 
> My .02 FWIW YMMV



Well if I had your kind of job I'd probably agree with you, but in my line of work I wouldnt trust an expensive flashlight as I could easily lose it and it could get damaged easily. I work in the construction industry doing building surveys.


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## herosemblem (Apr 21, 2011)

Let me just send you my G2X Pro, LX2 & E1B, and you will cry tears of joy.


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## Mike_TX (Apr 21, 2011)

herosemblem said:


> Let me just send you my G2X Pro, LX2 & E1B, and you will cry tears of joy.





lovecpf

.
.


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## LEDrock (Apr 21, 2011)

herosemblem said:


> Let me just send you my G2X Pro, LX2 & E1B, and you will cry tears of joy.


 
Not to be disrespectful, but I think the tears I would be crying would be the sticker shock when buying those CR123 batteries. I've always steered clear of them, especially now that LED tech has gotten to where 2AA can put out more light than what even a Surefire incan could do for $200 not many years ago. I was very tempted to get a Surefire back then when it was all the rage, but I'm glad I resisted.


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## herosemblem (Apr 21, 2011)

I don't blame you RE CR123 battery prices. 
I spend $1 apiece on mine. Most dealers sell them for ~$2.50 apiece, and I sure as heck would never pay _that _much. 
I buy them (Titanium Innovations brand, equivalent to Surefire CR123's) 100 pieces for $100 at the Junction that sells Batteries online. The 100 cells last me a year or so; not sure. That, I can afford . 
I'm not sure how much your avg AA battery sells apiece. How do they compare to a buck apiece?


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## flatline (Apr 21, 2011)

slipe said:


> But the second one a couple of years later has the latest technology and will outshine the 2 year old lifetime investment light.


 
My current light can already go much brighter than I ever need, so if a new light is inferior to my current light in every way except max output, I'm not interested.

--flatline


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## oFUNGUSo (Apr 23, 2011)

i only have budget lights at this point because im just starting out. also, im broke. well.......thats not even a good excuse really. i spent 700 on a pistol, and own more good quality knives than i know what to do with. but, i shouldnt really be spending 100 or 200 dollars on lights.

ill tell you this, i just got a romisen RC-3 for 15 bucks on ebay, says it has a cree LED in it, takes either 2xAA, or breaks down and takes 1xAA or 1XCR123, it feels solid, its bright enough for anything i need it for, it looks cool, claims to be over 100 lumens (which i dont think is true)...... im pretty happy with my "budget light"


also, i DO feel temptation to try a fenix at around 50 or 60 bucks.....


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## Ian2381 (Apr 24, 2011)

I have lots of budget and expensive AA lights,

Got a MiNi AA titanium, MiNi AA neutral and regular, nitecore D10, Zebralight Sc50w, H51, etc

But in terms of reliability, I also have reliable and good quality Budget AA lights that I would recomend to anyone, Brands made by Tank007 and Romisen are below $20 but quality seems almost at par with my more expensive lights.

Get any lights made by Tank007 or Romisen and you wont be dissapointed (unless you are a perfectionist).


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## Monocrom (Apr 24, 2011)

With lights, you really do get what you pay for.

I love my expensive lights. They're great. I buy budget lights mainly for things like outfitting a BOB or smaller emergency kits that will mainly sit unused. There are plenty of budget lights out there with a decent amount of build-quality for the dollar. But once again, you do get what you pay for.


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