# Make me love Incans



## Chrispy (Nov 7, 2008)

Hi, I've been lurking on here for a little while reading and rightly or wrongly get the feeling the LED based threads can concentrate only the measurable aspects of a lights performance, whereas in here I've read threads that suggest the poster 'likes' their light, for some other reason besides the qualities of it's beam pattern etc.

I'm an absolute newbie, until very recently my belief with lights was that Maglites are where it's at, hence having a 2D, 4D and 6D, all Incans. Then I read on a UK police forum about guys that had far smaller and brighter torches. This is why I now have a Fenix T1, and Nitecore's Extreme and D20.

So, to my question, what do you recommend as an Incan, that will make me love them? It doesn't have to be a new light as I don't mind a simple mod to any of the Mags, but I'm not looking to invest in specialist rechargeable batteries. Yet.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Nov 7, 2008)

Chrispy said:


> Hi, I've been lurking on here for a little while reading and rightly or wrongly get the feeling the LED based threads can concentrate only the measurable aspects of a lights performance, whereas in here I've read threads that suggest the poster 'likes' their light, for some other reason besides the qualities of it's beam pattern etc.
> 
> I'm an absolute newbie, until very recently my belief with lights was that Maglites are where it's at, hence having a 2D, 4D and 6D, all Incans. Then I read on a UK police forum about guys that had far smaller and brighter torches. This is why I now have a Fenix T1, and Nitecore's Extreme and D20.
> 
> So, to my question, what do you recommend as an Incan, that will make me love them? It doesn't have to be a new light as I don't mind a simple mod to any of the Mags, but I'm not looking to invest in specialist rechargeable batteries. Yet.


Try a Wolf-Eyes with the rechargeable kit.

A* Raider* is a great start:

http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/productList.aspx?uid=1-140-4-13


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 7, 2008)

Surefire A2

That's one that helped me anyway.


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## RobertM (Nov 7, 2008)

I have to agree with Sgt. LED, the SureFire A2 is an excellent incandescent. I'm not sure about your budget, but I'd be willing to bet that would love incandescence if you tried a SureFire M6 also.

With that being said, it really depends on what you plan to use it for. Just like in the LED sub-forum, people always ask for recommendations based on how they plan to use it.

I started out on here buying LEDs, but all my recent purchases have been incans. I love my A2 + M6 combo. My A2 provides a good stealthy red low beam from its LEDs and a bright white incan beam which is really about perfect output for most tasks. But when I need the "big gun", the M6 is perfect! :twothumbs


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## brighterisbetter (Nov 7, 2008)

Surefire M3


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## StarHalo (Nov 7, 2008)

You can do a simple $40 drop-in incandescent mod to a (5"/EDC-size) Surefire 6P that will output *630 lumens*.


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## Jvalera (Nov 7, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> You can do a simple $40 drop-in incandescent mod to a (5"/EDC-size) Surefire 6P that will output *630 lumens*.


 Please the Recipie


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## Juggernaut (Nov 7, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *StarHalo*
> You can do a simple $40 drop-in incandescent mod to a (5"/EDC-size) Surefire 6P that will output *630 lumens*.


 


Jvalera said:


> Please the Recipie


 
Yea how? Does that 21 watt bi pin bulb adaptor thingy really make this much power:naughty:? I guess it would if the ROP “like 25 watts” makes 780-1080 lumens, then I would figure 21 would make around 630:thinking:. Though wattage doesn’t tell everything, my 37.5 watt “long life though 300 hours” only makes 625 lumens.


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## sappyg (Nov 7, 2008)

welcome to cfp.
1st.... get some rechargable batts. when i found those rcr-123 AW's i started truly enjoying incan... 
my favorite incan at the moment is SF e2e witha LF ho-2r lamp. this combination has great spill and good throw. it's the perfect light for me.
or you could try a 6p... add a LF SR-9 and you're set....
if you don't love incans after that then you're dead.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 7, 2008)

I have quite a few lights, mostly Mag Mods. Finally got a SF-M6 (also have a SF M4 & SF L2). While I like the M6, I would not start with an M6 or an M4. Three main reasons I say this are:


Their initial expense (including a rapid appetite to consume SF 123a Litium batteries @ $1.75 each) is hard to justify starting out. Yes you get high quality, but more affordable flashlights will hold up to normal use just fine. If you are going to get a rechargeable setup, you will have some additional expenses and limited parts availability.


Their lumen output is not what you can get with simple Mag Mods. SF uses a diffuse coating on reflector that results in more of a flood beam which reduces "throw."


If you like to have fast on/off one hand operation with thumb on side; arm in normal walking position, these SF models have a tailcap push button requiring practical use of cocking up your elbow with hand help at head level--gets old.
I would recommend starting out with a simple "ROP" bulb replacement and see how you like that cheap first step. Then you can take a look at my now aging Maglist thread in my sig for other ideas and ranking. I just added the M6 into spot #14.


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## Chrispy (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies.
Budget depends a lot on where I have to buy from and if importing from the US then I'll have to consider whether a light is worth the price and the tax, but I guess I'd be happy to spend about twice the price of a Fenix TK10.

As for use, and I know this may sound weird, but I'll find a use for the right light! - The main thing I'm trying to achieve is to source a 'good' Incan, one that I can compare to my LED lights & get a feel for how & why they're different.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 7, 2008)

It's impossible to identify "a good incan" because there are many more variations than with LED lights. I think you sill see the point and discern main differences vs. LED with the ROP Pellican bulb which swaps bulbs with stock mag. There are many ways to power it which you can follow link to thread from my sig mag list. ROP is #17 now.


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## NeonLights (Nov 7, 2008)

Chrispy said:


> Make me love Incans


Go out and buy a Surefire M6 and 3 or 4 12-packs of batteries. Use for several weeks. Report back.


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## jumpstat (Nov 8, 2008)

NeonLights said:


> Go out and buy a Surefire M6 and 3 or 4 12-packs of batteries. Use for several weeks. Report back.


This is what I did, also got the bits and pieces to run the WA1185, small, compact ang powerful and totally rechargeable !


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## mdocod (Nov 9, 2008)

Hello Chrispy,

In my personal experience, and I'm sure this is shared by many others: Rechargeable options, especially those compact lithium-ion options, make it possible to truly appreciate incans without the guilt of feeding a constant stream of expensive primary cells. Incans are power hungary, and a lot of that juice just gets converted to heat in the process. Knowing that you can keep recharging and using without knowing that so much is going down the drain makes using an incan far more rewarding. The M6 with the HOLA option, is a very neat flashlight, but at a rate of 6 CR123s every 15-20 minutes, it has an astronomical cost of operation. What tends to happen is that, when you know your usage is directly associated with having to fork over more for cells, you tend to "conserve" your usage, and not use the light in as many opportunities as you might otherwise. 

Using li-ion in a flashlight does require a little bit of understanding of those cells, how they work, and how to properly care for them and use them to stay safe and effective. There are some modern advancements li-ion battery technology that really change the rules. If runtime is not an issue, there are some very compact options possible that can produce massive output, output and throw that rivals most LEDs, but in these setups, runtime isn't measured in hours, it's measured in minutes. On the other end of the spectrum, there are some very conservative setups that can run for well over an hour, that produce useful levels of illumination that is pleasant and reliable and practical in many applications. In any case, when you know in the back of your mind that you can recharge it at any time, you are actually more likely to TRY to use the flashlight whenever possible, to try to make use of your investment in rechargeable cells, and just, because it's fun to turn on a small piece of sunlight. 

Without a price range specified for an incan that you will fall in love with, it's hard to make a recommendation. The nice thing about a SureFire M6 is that it's easy to fall in love with it's design and appearance. It just jumps out as being something special. But with an MSRP over $400, your wallet may not love it at all... (depends what kind of income bracket you are in I supposed!).... I own one, but I shouldn't, it's way over my income bracket and is one of those purchases that for many of us, (like myself), is made because after years in this hobby, it just seems like it's time to own one, or for various other reasons of nostalgia. It also helps that I can write it off on my Taxes since i am building and selling battery adapters for it... That aside, as a first incan to fall in love with, the M6 would not be my recommendation, I would say that your desire to own one may grow in time, but it will be for reasons beyond pure performance to price/size ratio etc etc. Having said that, if you can comfortably afford an M6, go for it

My recommendation is to have a look at the Wolf-Eyes M90 series of lights. The D36 mini-turbo configuration is a nice balance between throwing capability and head size. Holstered, lights like this are still very portable. Running on either 2x18650, 3x18500, or 3x18650 size li-ion cell (depending on configuration options), the light has great output, a decent balance of throw and flood in most bulb options, and reasonable runtimes. My personal recommendation would be a standard M90 12V, (to act as host), a Pila IBC charger, 2 or 4 AW brand protected 3.7V 18650 Li-Ion cells, upgrade the bulb to a LumensFactory EO-9L. This will be a nice intro to "good" incandescent configurations that still have some winning angles against LED's. 

Eric


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## adamlau (Nov 9, 2008)

You gotta try a big power incan to appreciate them. Especially in the rain. I do not like the M3 as 2x18500 is a tight fit. M4, or M6. Good stuff.


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## Chrontius (Nov 9, 2008)

A three-cell Surefire is an awesome personal light - standard P90 and all. G3, maybe?

But to really get a feel for oomph, you can put a ROP bulb and six NiMH cells in a disposable 99 cent 2D flashlight, with Kai battery adapters. If you already have the batteries, you're looking at $4 worth of disposable parts. The bulb set is $6-12, but you can put them in a real ROP when parts arrive. As far as simple mods go, a ROP is pretty simple, and so very satisfying.


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## Chrispy (Nov 9, 2008)

Wow, a lot of food for thought there. Cheers for all the input.
Looks like I'm going to have to do some research on batteries before I make a decision.

At the moment there's so much on here that I still need to read; I've never heard of 18500 and 18650's before, I don't know (yet) about the dangers of li-ion cells or the merits of protected cells etc. 
I've read about running cells hot of a charger and instaflash, whilst I've an idea of what this must mean, I've not got the knowledge to make an investment in a particular cell type. Lots more reading for me!

I'm thinking of being able to spend approx $150-200, but reading your replies and the links in LuxLuthors sig, I think I may go down the ROP route first. I know there's a lot that's already been posted on the ROP, and I will make time to go through it, but as I have 2D, 4D and 6D Maglites (BTW, why do I see it written as M*glite so much?) is there a configuration that would use readily available primaries in one of these hosts and allow me to build the ROP whilst I'm researching all the battery/charger options?


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## csshih (Nov 9, 2008)

from what I know, it's somewhat unlikely for a li-ion to do anything bad unless you're abusing it(or mixing them), but incans may drain li-ions to the point of no return(or charging)


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## Chrontius (Nov 9, 2008)

Actually, you could run six Ni-MH cells in a ROP battery configuration on a stock 6-cell Mag bulb (get the Magnum-Star xenon ones; they have a smooth tip, while the crappier White Star krypton ones have a little glass blob tip) for something useful, cheap-ish, and not requiring you to replace the window or reflector. I recommend Sanyo Eneloop AA batteries both for convenience and performance, and if you're willing to spend $150-200, you can get a really nice ROP built.

Fivemega's NiMH adapters are second to none, and can be charged by a six-cell pack charger (for a standard ROP, you want a six AA to two D adapter). MDocod's are cheap, and somewhat open-source - he distributes the plans and specs for his for free for the good of the hobby. They're also user-servicable and heavy duty. For the record, I use a secondhand Fivemega pack and love it. I've yet to get a pack charger, though.

Lenses are easier, FlashLightLens.com has many choices for cheap, or you could get some from Kaidomain if slow shipping is okay.

Reflectors can be had from the Sandwich Shoppe, Fivemega sometimes, Kaidomain always (half the price, lower quality, two month shipping). FM's are said to offer the best beams, but I've yet to try one.


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## yellow (Nov 10, 2008)

ROP sure are nice lights.
Will You have one with You?
... they simply are too large, heavy and offer too much less runtime for "general" toting them around.
... but are nice to impress ppl

That WE outdoors fanatic posted or another 18650 incan (Streamlight Scorpion 18650, cheapo incans from DX, ...) is a nice thing to compare Your similar sized lights to



> but I'm not looking to invest in specialist rechargeable batteries. Yet.


then, with EDC lights (mainly CR123 and 18650 Li-Ion size), there is only the CR123 option.
Except for totally unnecessary pollution, they are expensive here and I doubt they are echeaper in the UK (and if --> pollution)
If You do not have a good charger for Ni-Mhs by now (~ € 40,--), then switching to a multicell Li-Ion charger (~ $ 15,--) is the cheaper way
... and a single 18650 holds more power than 2 AAs or 2 CR123 while the size of the light stays the same.


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## divine (Nov 10, 2008)

Chrispy said:


> (BTW, why do I see it written as M*glite so much?)


People write it like that cause they hate the search feature! :laughing:

(Kidding.)


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## kelmo (Nov 10, 2008)

Chrontius said:


> A three-cell Surefire is an awesome personal light - standard P90...



+1

I would recommend a 9P. If its not love at 1st light then your probably an LED man (or woman).

Welcome to CPF BTW


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 10, 2008)

And if you get the 9P and the output is not for you then a quick malkoff LED upgrade is waiting in the wings for you!
*WHOOPS!*
_This is the incan forum, sorry!_

As such if the standard P90 lamp assembly isn't for you then you could look at some of the excellent lumens factory incan lamps. I think their lamps are better performers than the stock Surefires. That goes for any of their incan options I have ever gotten, A2 M6, C3, I like them all.
Round, white, and you can better tailor your output levels to the runtime you perfer.


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## leeleefocus (Nov 10, 2008)

You already have a 2D and 6D mag for possible ROP builds. The 2D will need a battery holder that will take 6AA rechargeable's(get a good quality holder) or get 6 D cells rechargeable of course and use them straight in your 6D mag. You will need a glass lens and a metal reflector and the bulbs and once assembled you will find a big grin appearing on your face. These are probably the two most basic ROP builds but they are very effective. There are many things you can do like resistance fixes and adding in an extra cell in the 2D build but i would say start with the basic ROP setup first and then go from there.


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## ^^Nova^^ (Nov 10, 2008)

A ROP made with a 6D will have a super runtime as well, something around 2 hours (10,000mah batteries with about 5amp draw on the high bulb).

I am working on a ROP lo in a 2D and a hi in a 4D (with 6 sub-c batteries), both should run for around an hour, which is heaps, and I can swap bulbs in either if I need really long runtime (4D lo) or high light from the small package for about 30 min.

Nova


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## addictedmatt (Nov 10, 2008)

This is why I love them.

Rop




P7




Mag623:twothumbs


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 10, 2008)

I loved my Mag623 but sold it. I couldn't deal with the runtime. 
But one day I can get that output for longer. Tech moves that direction every week it seems.


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## mdocod (Nov 11, 2008)

I think people write "M*glight" as sort of an old joke... I'll try to explain..

Mag is known as a company that has more invested in a legal team than research an development. So when writing "M*glite" instead of "Maglite" I think it's like saying "please! don't sue me for using your name!!!"

I could be wrong about this.

Eric


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 11, 2008)

It's how I understood it as well. 

Is it true that they tried to patent the switch being on the side like it is? Not the switch design, the actual location! Like switches hadn't been in that spot for decades before Mag existed.
Or is this particular legal nonsense my imagination?


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## DM51 (Nov 11, 2008)

As mdocod says, it was partly because Maglite had a reputation for litigation, especially with Mags that had been modded. 

The different variations of spelling was also supposed to save extra strain on the search function here, although I am not sure how effective that was.


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## thunderlight (Nov 11, 2008)

I also appreciate using incandescents of a different nature. I like the lightweight, no mod required, Princeton Tec products. The two types that I use are relatively powerful for their size, work well with slow self discharge batteries such as eneloops, are inexpensive, and use standard PR bulbs. 

I use a Tec 40 and a Sport Flare with the cone removed. I use the 2 cell Mag Krypton bulb in the sport flare and the 4 cell Magnum Star Xenon bulb in the tec 40. As has been referenced before, for a brighter light with a shorter bulb lifespan, use a a 3 cell Mag Krypton bulb in the tec 40.

As an added note, sometimes I'll see packaging text for an LED product that says something like "more powerful than a 2D flashlight" or "more powerful than a 3D flashlight". It's nice to know that you can have an incandescent in a truly compact size that is exactly as powerful as a 2D flashlight or a 4D flashlight.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 12, 2008)

DM51 said:


> As mdocod says, it was partly because Maglite had a reputation for litigation, especially with Mags that had been modded.
> 
> The different variations of spelling was also supposed to save extra strain on the search function here, although I am not sure how effective that was.



The best analogy is how we use M$ for MicroSoft or CO$ for Church of Scientology. Similarly, using a nerdly shortcut letter in M*glite to dis Maglite in such a subtle way, theoretically shows that one must be uber l33t (to other nerds). It's up to the reader to decide if they achieved the intended result.


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## etc (Nov 12, 2008)

Nice pics.



addictedmatt said:


> This is why I love them.
> 
> 
> Mag623:twothumbs


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## Swedpat (Nov 13, 2008)

Chrispy said:


> Hi, I've been lurking on here for a little while reading and rightly or wrongly get the feeling the LED based threads can concentrate only the measurable aspects of a lights performance, whereas in here I've read threads that suggest the poster 'likes' their light, for some other reason besides the qualities of it's beam pattern etc.
> 
> I'm an absolute newbie, until very recently my belief with lights was that Maglites are where it's at, hence having a 2D, 4D and 6D, all Incans. Then I read on a UK police forum about guys that had far smaller and brighter torches. This is why I now have a Fenix T1, and Nitecore's Extreme and D20.
> 
> So, to my question, what do you recommend as an Incan, that will make me love them? It doesn't have to be a new light as I don't mind a simple mod to any of the Mags, but I'm not looking to invest in specialist rechargeable batteries. Yet.


 

I find the question interesting. Actually I considered to start a thread: "*Why incans when you can have LED*?" Therefore I ask this question here instead, I think it will coincide with Chrispy's question. I remember when I first time saw a small Surefire which had a brightness comparable to a Maglite 5D or so. Shortly after that there was some flashlight in the same size which was even brighter. Since some years the new LED technology has resulted in LED lights who are even brighter than these. And with longer runtime. My Fenix TK10 and Tiablo A9 beat those incans in every respect.
The only advantage I can se of an incan light is the color tint which may be more comfortable for the eyes, and in some occations at dark coloured objects unveil more details. But apart from this? LED flashlights have a more even illuminated beam, are more reliable, never need to change the LED bulb. And so on...

Regards, Patric


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## SureAddicted (Nov 13, 2008)

Swedpat said:


> "*Why incans when you can have LED*?"



It's the wrong place to ask that question.


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 13, 2008)

And it's been asked too many times.

Always turns ugly and gets locked.

*There is a place, time, and user for every type, style, and output pattern of any flashlight be it incan or LED.*

This is actually a* FLASHLIGHT FORUM *believe it or not.


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## signal 13 (Nov 13, 2008)

brighterisbetter said:


> Surefire M3


 
LOVE my M3 :rock:

Sure you would too!


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## Ogg Vorbis (Nov 13, 2008)

I've been a big fan of LED's from the start of this hobby, but i'm now board of them, i've found an EDC i'm happy with and the rest perform in a very similar way.

So now i'm looking for a nice incan to spice it up. I had an ROP but my bulb broke... (dropped the mag!) dont suppose anyone could suggest an alternative bulb? i have a modamag 8AA-2D adaptor so my max is 8 Ni-MH.

I'm also looking to purchase a leef 2x18650 body, to house some P60 style incan drop-ins. I bought a 7.2V 15W drop in from DX and i would love to run it properly, then maybe move on to something a little more powerful.


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## Swedpat (Nov 13, 2008)

Sgt. LED said:


> And it's been asked too many times.
> 
> Always turns ugly and gets locked.
> 
> ...


 

Sure, I don't deny that. But if it's been asked many times, I would like to know some answer about it... Where is a better place to ask this question if not in a Flashlight forum?

Regards, Patric


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 13, 2008)

Swedpat said:


> Sure, I don't deny that. But if it's been asked many times, I would like to know some answer about it... Where is a better place to ask this question if not in a Flashlight forum?
> 
> Regards, Patric



In the General Flashlight Discussion forum on CPF. Search and you shall find.

Bill


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## Swedpat (Nov 13, 2008)

Thanks Bill, now I understand what SureAddicted meant with "It's the wrong place to ask that question".

Regards, Patric


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## IcantC (Nov 13, 2008)

I have many lights, and nothing that I like better than my SF M6.


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## Chrontius (Nov 13, 2008)

Swedpat said:


> I find the question interesting. Actually I considered to start a thread: "*Why incans when you can have LED*?" Therefore I ask this question here instead, I think it will coincide with Chrispy's question. I remember when I first time saw a small Surefire which had a brightness comparable to a Maglite 5D or so. Shortly after that there was some flashlight in the same size which was even brighter. Since some years the new LED technology has resulted in LED lights who are even brighter than these. And with longer runtime. My Fenix TK10 and Tiablo A9 beat those incans in every respect.
> The only advantage I can se of an incan light is the color tint which may be more comfortable for the eyes, and in some occations at dark coloured objects unveil more details. But apart from this? LED flashlights have a more even illuminated beam, are more reliable, never need to change the LED bulb. And so on...
> 
> Regards, Patric



Because all my incans are rechargeable and are equally as cheap to run - more so, really, as I keep reaching for my 8X at night - and the quality of light it produces is _perfect_. This is why Surefire got their reputation. I've only had one other light with this beam quality, and that was an Inova XO 1.4 watt reflector model. In short, I love incans because - when - they're cheap to feed, throwy, floody, and have a perfect beam, and when their light is more efficiently reflected by what I want to see than LED spectrum; this effect is not taken into account by most lumens per watt calculations.

But mostly, because they're pleasant to use.


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## bullfrog (Nov 13, 2008)

All I can say is that I really don't know why I didn't pick up an incan sooner.

I just got a red led A2 with the strion mod and am really really happy - I love the UI and the thickness of the body but my favorite part is the warmness of the beam. I can't wait to see the real beauty of the incan when I get an opportunity to use it in the rain 

Honestly, I think it just had to do with my noob mentality - I remember writing incans off right away when I discovered CPF as the output and runtime seemed like an outdated joke to me. 5 months later and 10+ surefire LEDs later, I am finally starting to appreciate incans and look forward to my next purchase...


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Nov 14, 2008)

bullfrog said:


> All I can say is that I really don't know why I didn't pick up an incan sooner.
> 
> I just got a red led A2 with the strion mod and am really really happy - I love the UI and the thickness of the body but my favorite part is the warmness of the beam. I can't wait to see the real beauty of the incan when I get an opportunity to use it in the rain
> 
> Honestly, I think it just had to do with my noob mentality - I remember writing incans off right away when I discovered CPF as the output and runtime seemed like an outdated joke to me. 5 months later and 10+ surefire LEDs later, I am finally starting to appreciate incans and look forward to my next purchase...


Where did you find the Strion Mod? I thought they were all gone...


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## bullfrog (Nov 14, 2008)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Where did you find the Strion Mod? I thought they were all gone...



Fivemega has a 2nd run thread as of 10/18 - here you go:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/210254


.


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## SureAddicted (Nov 14, 2008)

Swedpat, before you post a question, it makes sense to see if that question has been asked before. Take a look at this thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/212701
As you spend more time on this site, you'll realise there are two camps, the LED guys and the incan guys. As for LED vs Incan debate, it's been done to death and like Sarge says it never ends well and the thread gets locked. I should of explained it in more detail in my other post, but you sort of get the drift.


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## SureAddicted (Nov 14, 2008)

Sgt. LED said:


> And it's been asked too many times.
> 
> Always turns ugly and gets locked.
> 
> ...




I'm sorry for not being more informative, what I meant was the Incan section is the wrong place to ask that. Thats why there are different sections, LED for the people who are into LED's and the Incan section for the folks who are into incans.


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## EV_007 (Nov 15, 2008)

Make you love incans???


Handle an M6 with the the HOLA against your favorite LED. Then you'll see the light.


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## DM51 (Nov 17, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> As you spend more time on this site, you'll realise there are two camps, the LED guys and the incan guys.


There is a third camp which is overwhelmingly larger than either of those two, consisting of members who value and appreciate the different uses and advantages of *BOTH* those types of light, and have no use for the pointless squabbles that too frequently erupt between die-hards of one variety or the other.


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 17, 2008)

DM51 said:


> There is a third camp which is overwhelmingly larger than either of those two, consisting of members who value and appreciate the different uses and advantages of *BOTH* those types of light, and have no use for the pointless squabbles that too frequently erupt between die-hards of one variety or the other.



Count me in the third camp. :thumbsup:

Bill


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## Icebreak (Nov 17, 2008)

Astronauts like them.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 17, 2008)

DM51 said:


> There is a third camp which is overwhelmingly larger than either of those two, consisting of members who value and appreciate the different uses and advantages of *BOTH* those types of light, and have no use for the pointless squabbles that too frequently erupt between die-hards of one variety or the other.



+1

I would also nominate a fourth camp...those who think they know what is available in incans, based upon their grandma's 2D grocery store light with now leaking alkaline batteries, or a stock maglite. Same camp version exists for many "incan-jockeys" who think LED's are at the level of electronics panel on/off indicator.


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 18, 2008)

Cool I have moved into camp #3.
:thumbsup:

I was in camp 4 thinking incans were weak yellow battery eaters ala Mag. Live and learn


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## oronocova (Nov 20, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> You can do a simple $40 drop-in incandescent mod to a (5"/EDC-size) Surefire 6P that will output *630 lumens*.




This statement interests me very much. I have tried searching the forums to little avail. How can I make my 6p do this? I have seen the thread explaining the available lamps/battery combinations ... but didn't see anything with this much output listed.

Point me in the right direction please  Not trying to change the direction of this tread but I have similar interests as the OP and maybe this would help him as well.

Thanks - Jon


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## Juggernaut (Nov 20, 2008)

oronocova said:


> This statement interests me very much. I have tried searching the forums to little avail. How can I make my 6p do this? I have seen the thread explaining the available lamps/battery combinations ... but didn't see anything with this much output listed.
> 
> Point me in the right direction please  Not trying to change the direction of this tread but I have similar interests as the OP and maybe this would help him as well.
> 
> Thanks - Jon


 
Read up here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/190833:thumbsup:.


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## ToeMoss (Nov 22, 2008)

Swedpat said:


> "*Why incans when you can have LED*?"



It seems this question is most frequently asked by people who have never used the finer incandescent flashlights such as the M6, otherwise they wouldn't have to ask at all.
Do us all a favor, until you have used an M6 quality light, don't ask why.


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## Woods Walker (Nov 23, 2008)

The only Incan I have left is a G2. Added a LED drop in to my G2Z but never had the heart to do the same to the G2. There is just something about that Incan glow. Someone showed me an A2 some time ago. I liked it but never got one. Sure there are threads on the A2 that has some good info on it. I think the light is regulated but don't know how regulation would work on a light with a shorter Incan runtime. Also wonder if the 5MM leds are regulated too? Maybe I will look up back threads on the A2.


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## yellow (Nov 24, 2008)

> think the light is regulated but don't know how regulation would work on a light with a shorter Incan runtime.


.. the same as with led lights:
the output is kept stable as long as the driver can do, meaning the light does not get yellow.

With led - where the color stays much the same - it is more difficult to see declining current (and so declining output),
with incans one notices that it is no longer as white as at the beginning - a very crude estimation on remaining battery power is possible,
a regulated incan keeps the light stable without dimming and possibly fights  at initial lightup 

if it were not the higher current consumption (three times more), and if there were more (and cheaper) models like an A2 available, we all would not care for Led 
(by now! Within a few years, we should check again)


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## Woods Walker (Nov 25, 2008)

Thanks for the info. Maybe when I have extra cash the A2 will be added to my list of wants.


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## mesa232323 (Nov 28, 2008)

Swedpat said:


> I find the question interesting. Actually I considered to start a thread: "*Why incans when you can have LED*?" Therefore I ask this question here instead, I think it will coincide with Chrispy's question. I remember when I first time saw a small Surefire which had a brightness comparable to a Maglite 5D or so. Shortly after that there was some flashlight in the same size which was even brighter. Since some years the new LED technology has resulted in LED lights who are even brighter than these. And with longer runtime. My Fenix TK10 and Tiablo A9 beat those incans in every respect.
> The only advantage I can se of an incan light is the color tint which may be more comfortable for the eyes, and in some occations at dark coloured objects unveil more details. But apart from this? LED flashlights have a more even illuminated beam, are more reliable, never need to change the LED bulb. And so on...
> 
> Regards, Patric


 One thing you forgot to mention is that the LED does not throw as far as incans.


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## mesa232323 (Nov 28, 2008)

Here is the first mod I did and I was pleased with the light output. But I think it costed a little more than this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnkjvEdeIlc


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