# Any Breathalyzer experts in the house?



## Topper (Mar 17, 2006)

I had the chance to try one today at a Doctor visit and was amazed
And quite embarrassed to register a whopping .006 on the machine.
The Doc laughed it off as a no big deal but I was not happy at all.
I admit I usually buy a six pack for the fourth of July and a six pack for New Years.
Well it isn’t the fourth or New Years so how did I get a .006??? I don’t even know what the legal limit is-- .1 or .08 or something like that. I did look around a little on the net and just got confused (of course I did heck I register .006 my brain must be fried)
anybody got a good idea or even a bad one on how that can happen? 
I have been told by my Doc I am "slightly" brain damaged due to repeated blows to the head, OK I can live with that. I have been told I am "OCD" not a problem, I can live with that I can just buy two; however getting a .006 on a breathalyzer is not exceptable in the least for me. I am almost too ashamed to post this but we have Doctors and Lawyers and Cops oh my! And for the most part most of my pals are right here in one nice spot. I am trying to laugh this off. I really would like a simple answer or even a complicated one if anyone has one.
Topper


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## BigTwin (Mar 17, 2006)

Did you happen to use a mouthwash or medication containing alcohol prior to the appointment?


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## Topper (Mar 17, 2006)

No meds with alcohol. Mouthwash in the morning I start work at 6:00 am test was around 11:30 I think thats plenty long enough to rule that out but I don't really know.
Topper


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## lightlust (Mar 17, 2006)

It is well known that a Breathalyzer needs to be calibrated periodically and before each test, as well as free of any residue from previous uses. New disposable mouthpieces should be used for each test.

A certified system calibration from a person or company authorized and trained to do so is usually done every six months to a year for machines whose use needs to stand up in court.

Using even the most sophisticated machine without these precautions means its results are not useful for anything other than impressing gullible girls at college parties. It's like using a weight scale that hasn't been zeroed out or tared before use. Meaningless.

Perhaps the effect of careless operation is what you have observed, or been annoyed by, Topper. Can you tell us more about the machine and the test given? Was it hand-held, was it calibrated beforehand, etc? BigTwin's note on mouthwash (most contain some alcohol) and medication (cough syrups & Nyquil often contain alcohol) is also extremely important. That trace alcohol can remain in your mouth alone, even if not swallowed, often up to twenty minutes, although this shouldn't have affected your test.

These details (sometimes overlooked) are what defense attorneys scrutinize in order to righfully invalidate a sloppily performed breath test.


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## Topper (Mar 17, 2006)

The Doc stated it was just calibrated (as in that day possibly just for me say an hour or less before I got there). I assume by him, there was a little propane sized bottle next to the unit and he was very proud of it "better than the ones used by the police" it was not a little hand held job it was about the size of a small VCR in its own Pelican type case I admit it looked neat and new. The mouthpiece was brand new sealed and he showed it to me before opening it up and putting it on. 
Topper


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2006)

Whoa! I don't drink. Never. Period. I'd be thunderstruck to find I had any BAL at all. I'm VERY interested in any info turned up in this thread.

Cheers. (err..) :buddies:


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## smokinbasser (Mar 18, 2006)

If you had any Orange Juice or yeast breads on the morning of the test .006 is reasonable OJ contains a minute amount of naturally occuring alcohol and my guess is yeast and or OJ could explain it.


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## lightlust (Mar 18, 2006)

Sounds like the Doc had a nice machine. It doesn't mean he used it properly or had it factory calibrated. I'd ask to see his operating certificate, but I'm a smarty pants sometimes. 

However, there is another explanation: Endogenous Ethanol, meaning ethanol alcohol produced within the body (as opposed to "exogenous ethanol", my favorite kind!)

It is lesser known that ethanol alcohol can be produced within the human body, usually by bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract breaking down carbohydrates. Here's a nice scientific article on this phenomenon. The levels of ethanol observed are usually quite low, as in your case.

A Google search of "Endogenous Ethanol" will turn up a wealth of information, from medical studies to articles on fighting invalid Breathalyzer results. There is even evidence that yeast and glucose in urine can produce "bladder beer". Talk about a micro-brewery! 

All jokes aside, what annoys me is the possibility of innocent people unknowingly getting a bogus Breathalyzer reading without drinking a drop of the good stuff.


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## jtice (Mar 18, 2006)

Personally, i think they are BS !

Everyone reacts to things differently, they shouldnt rely on a damn machine to tell if your too drunk to drive.
Comon damn sence should tell them that.
You can have just a beer or two, and fail one of those machines, 
which would not be near enough for most ppl to be impared.

~John


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## gadget_lover (Mar 18, 2006)

I don't think that an extra 6/1000 of a percent is enough to cross the line and get an undeserved DUI. That would mean that you were really blowing .074. (soapbox mode) Isn't the idea that you are not supposed to drink at all before driving as opposed to drinking as much as you can and still stay below the magic number? (soapboxmode off)

Sorry bout that.

What was the Doctor's reason for having a Breathalyzer? Was he using it in his diagnostics?

Daniel


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## Flying Turtle (Mar 18, 2006)

I would guess this reading is well within the normal operating error of this machine. The only really valid test would be a blood alcohol level analysis, probably done by gas chromatography.

Geoff


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## bfg9000 (Mar 18, 2006)

Diabetic or on the Atkins diet? Smoke? Ketones/acetone from any source as well as ions from smoke particles (or even the doctor's office air cleaner) will be detected by the breathalyzer as alcohol.


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## lightlust (Mar 18, 2006)

Flying Turtle said:


> I would guess this reading is well within the normal operating error of this machine. The only really valid test would be a blood alcohol level analysis, probably done by gas chromatography.
> 
> Geoff


Good point, Flying Turtle. Many Breathalyzers are manufacturer rated at a precision of plus or minus 0.008 when ethanol is detected.

Of course, blood tests for BAC also have their own sources of error and levels of precision, but are almost universally accepted as superior to any breath test.

Also, one more factor seldom mentioned (EDIT: err, except by bfg9000 above) is that methyl-group compounds and other substances chemically similar to ethanol, including isopropyl alcohol and methanol, some naturally occurring, are also known to be picked up by Breathalyzers.

What this thread needs is to take a CPF view of things. *How about this alcohol-detecting flashlight?* HA HA! Didn't see that coming, did ya? :nana:


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## AFAustin (Mar 18, 2006)

.006 is a miniscule reading. The limit in my state (Texas) is .08, and that is the case for most other states, AFAIK. (BTW, the limit used to be .10, and before that .15---DWI laws aren't getting any easier). 

The previous posts suggest any number of plausible explanations for your reading, and there are other possibilites as well. Intoxilyzers aren't the most sophisticated machines and have a fairly large "margin of error". I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Lightmeup (Mar 18, 2006)

I think that .006 is so low that it is meaningless. I wouldn't be surprised if that is a normal reading for someone who has not had anything to drink.


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## Robocop (Mar 18, 2006)

The breath test is simply one step in a conviction and most often will not stand alone in court. Many people refuse the test and are still often convicted without it.
I have seen one woman blow a .07 and could not even stand up much less drive. The breath test was not what got her but it was the video from my windshield camera. She failed all of the roadside tests and that is what led to the arrest. The breath test was simply extra but not needed. Here if you refuse a test it is an automatic suspension of your license for 90 days regardless of the outcome of the arrest.
I once saw a man released by a state trooper who had blown a .11 while a .08 here is considered legally intoxicated. I was assisiting this trooper and watched as the driver passed all roadside tests. The man smelled of alcohol however talked very clearly and had perfect balance. There was no real evidence to proceed thus the officer decided to allow the driver to leave.

The highest reading I have seen so far was a .31 with the driver being involved in an accident that hurt several people. He could barely speak but managed to drive about 10 miles before the accident.


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## KC2IXE (Mar 18, 2006)

Topper said:


> ...snip...
> Well it isn’t the fourth or New Years so how did I get a .006???...snip...



.006% Natural biological processes could do that amount - got some bacteria living in your gut, makes a little bit of Alchohol - and away we go

There are actually documented cases of folks who had a bacterial / yeast problem where they produced enough to make the legally drunk, without drinking


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## James S (Mar 18, 2006)

I agree with KC2IXE or lightlust. It's either misadjusted or a natural process. 

I'm more curious as to just why this doc has one? How is a breath tester part of the normal office gear for a doc? And how did the doc get to spend time playing with you and it? Most docs i've ever been to see are overworked and always in a hurry and wouldn't be able to take time out to show me their latest cool gadget. Unless they were a personal friend as well 

Wondering if you could be the butt of some kind of trial or test either of new hardware or of people's reactions to finding out that they can be auto-drunk


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## jtr1962 (Mar 18, 2006)

My guess is if you eat a lot of sugar it'll ferment and give you a "false" reading. Maybe this is what the term "naturally high" means. I've had that term applied to both myself and my brother.


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## Topper (Mar 19, 2006)

I was accused at work. Company Doc. I had no problem going down (escorted by the Inhuman Resource manager) as I knew I was not guilty. I do smoke and most unhappy. I get more "unhappy" as I think about this. I have no problem re-visiting meds. I take Prilosec every day I have taken a antihistemene for a few days both are over the counter. I am so less than happy I can't express my self on CPF. I hope they wish to push me further on Monday.
Topper


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## PhotonWrangler (Mar 19, 2006)

bfg9000 said:


> Diabetic or on the Atkins diet? Smoke? Ketones/acetone from any source as well as ions from smoke particles (or even the doctor's office air cleaner) will be detected by the breathalyzer as alcohol.



I was just going to suggest the same thing. Sometimes a diabetic is inappropriately labelled as "drunk" when in fact the presence of ketones produces an odor on the breath and a reading on the meter. Sometimes this is accompanied by disoriented behavior due to blood sugar being way off, which only adds to the effect.


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## gadget_lover (Mar 19, 2006)

Hey Topper, You should probably take a deep breath and try to mellow out. Yes, it seems insulting to be falsely accused. Yes, it's embarassing to be escorted to the doc. Yes, you were totally innocent.

BUT!


If you ran a business and thought someone might be drinking on the job, would you not want to protect them and yourself by confirming it? You would not want to wait till there was actual damage to someone or something. It's not like you were fired, disciplined, or otherwise punished. If you've been acting wierd, (dizzy, clumsy, silly, etc) you might want to have your own doctor check for possible medical causes.

You don't really want to blow off a job over something like this. Making decisions to take action like this is really hard for your boss. I know. I've been there. So show him some compasion. Let it slide. It would be the proper thing to do. 

Daniel


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## metalhed (Mar 19, 2006)

Topper -- I don't know if anybody else said this and I missed it, but your .006 reading is well over *one hundred times less* than the level it would take to charge you with drunk driving.

Regardless of whether or not the slight level detected in your system is a calibration error or a natural 'background' level of alcohol, the reading is insignificant in any legal sense.

There is no way you can be penalized or punished for such a reading. I would just ignore it and not worry about it.




Now just do me a favor, and don't take up boxing or football.

Gotta' protect that grey matter...you can't post without at least a little bit of it left...ummm...errr...I think. :laughing:


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## wmpwi (Mar 19, 2006)

I don't have the energy to real the prior posts should someone else have mentioned it, but here's my extensive expertise. You are in a doctors office. There is alcohol in use all over the place including, but not limited to the technician's hands from a little earlier in the checkup. These things can be very sensitive and have been known to pick up on the the alcohol hand sanitizer that's so popular these days, your aftershave, or even some cotton ball in the trash next to you from the last guy that gave blood. I even found the individually wrapped eyeglasses wipes will do. The list goes on. To test this I once used the hand sanitizer before using one and it read off the scale. My bet is that one of the aforementioned sources or the calibration issue mentioned earlier are the problem. Freak not, you'll be fine.


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## wmpwi (Mar 19, 2006)

BTW, this would hold true for most PBT's (portable breath test) as well as Breathalyzer type units.


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