# Brightest Mag mod with stock parts



## ciam (Jul 21, 2006)

I plan to build five Mag mods as gifts but I don't want to spend a fortune for them. So, I want to keep the stock parts such as plastic len and plastic reflector, and use a direct drop-in bulb. I would power the light with [rechargeable] AAs in cheap plastic 3AA to D adapters (series).

I want to know what's the brightest bulb I could safely use? Preferrably in a 2D Mag mod, but 3D is OK too.


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## DonShock (Jul 21, 2006)

I have 6AA in two 3AA-1D holders in a Mag2D with a Xenon 6D bulb. Fairly bright without going the full hotwire route.


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## greenLED (Jul 21, 2006)

Put a 3-cell bulb and cram 4-C batts in there. You'll need to use a 1" PVC pipe, deanodize the inside of the tailcap, and get a smaller spring (or cut the stock one down) for things to fit.


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## Brighteyez (Jul 21, 2006)

The mod that *DonShock* describes works quite well if you can find 3AA to 1D adapters that will work. The level of output is way up there with throw that exceeds that of most of the currently available Mag products. And the encouraging part of this is that all of the parts other than the battery adapters are commonly available in the consumer market, and in a pinch the light could be reverted to a 2D Mag. The bulb can be either a KPR118 bulb (from various vendors and Radio Shack) or preferably Mag's Mag-num Star 6 cell Xenon bulb.

Another version of this modification, using CR123 batteries, was recently reviewed at Flashlights Review http://flashlightreviews.com/reviews/maglite_2c-123a_mod.htm

*The Downside: *A co-worker approached me about this modification last week. I suggested that he order the adapters from Litemania (from the Dealers Corner forum.) What should have been a simple 5 minute drop-in modification turned out to be a bit of a disappointment as it was discovered that the postive buttons on the adapter were too short to reach the spring positive termnal contact on the Mag 2D light. While the adapter and the bulb works fine in other 2D flashlights (that use a bare terminal contact), with very impressive output, it's use with a Mag will require some build-up of the terminals on the adapters.


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## DonShock (Jul 21, 2006)

I had the spring problem too, but just figured it was due to compression of the spring since the Mag2D was pretty old. I just pulled out the switch and stretched the spring a little. I haven't had a problem since then.


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## Brighteyez (Jul 21, 2006)

The lights that we tried them on were brand new Mag 2Ds straight out of the clamshell. I'm a little leary of stretching springs as they tend to compress back to their original length after they've been under pressure for a while, though I'll give it a try.



DonShock said:


> I had the spring problem too, but just figured it was due to compression of the spring since the Mag2D was pretty old. I just pulled out the switch and stretched the spring a little. I haven't had a problem since then.


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## ciam (Jul 21, 2006)

Thanks all, guys.

So, Mag's 6 cell Xenon bulb is the brightest that I could get? I was hoping for something brighter.

I bought my 3AA to D plastic adapters from Litemania too. Still waiting for shipment. I wonder if soldering a drop of zinc onto the positive button would solve the problem. As Brighteyez said, stretching the spring may not be a long term solution.

greenLED, it would be interesting to see the expression on their faces when they open up the Mag to change batteries and find a PVC pipe in there . Thanks though, cos I would try the idea in my other projects.


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## Brighteyez (Jul 21, 2006)

Soldering a washer or just a good glob of solder might do it as well, but be aware that the contact is imbedded into cheap Chinese plastic. So exercise care with the soldering.

If you want to go much brighter, you're going to have to resort to the ROP mod with the Pelican Big D bulbs, but that means replacing the reflector and the leans; an expense that you did not want to incur. I'd suggest that you try one of these first to see if it is bright enough for your needs (or at least the needs of your recipients. My co-worker wanted to try this as a backup for the SL-20X that he uses in the car and found this to be reasonably bright (even though the sample that he saw came from a 15 year old 2 cell plastic Eveready halogen flashlight with the Mag bulb installed. We took it outside and used it to view the interiors of a couple of cars parked across the street and compared it with the output from the SL20. Granted it's not as bright as the SL20 (or a Mag Charger) but it's plenty bright for what it is, and is well above what any of the 2xCR123 tactical lights can produce and will also outthrow the Mag 3/4 cell LED lights, also outthrew my Stinger. Not bad for something that you want to do on the cheap. 

A couple of other alternatives that you could consider is the Pelican Big D alkaline 8 Watt bulb or the low 11W Big D bulb, though I think you're going to be pushing your luck with the 11W

And when you get bulbs, remember to include an appropriate spare. Your gift recipients won't be terribly pleased to put in the spare bulb and watch it flash because you left a 2.4V bulb in the tail cap that was intended for 2 D batteries.

And one last thing. Label the light with something that is reasonably weatherproof indicating that it only uses 6 AA cells, so that some kind samaritan doesn't help by dropping 2 D cells in the light and discard the adapters along with the AA cells. 



ciam said:


> Thanks all, guys.
> 
> So, Mag's 6 cell Xenon bulb is the brightest that I could get? I was hoping for something brighter.
> 
> ...


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## LumenHound (Jul 21, 2006)

ciam said:


> Thanks all, guys.
> 
> So, Mag's 6 cell Xenon bulb is the brightest that I could get? I was hoping for something brighter.



You can use the Mag 5 cell Krypton bulb on 6 AA rechargeables. It will be brighter than the 6 cell Xenon bulb.
The 5 cell Krypton bulb on 6 AA's will still be under the thermal maximum for the plastic stock reflector.
The 5 cell Xenon Mag bulb can be prone to instaflash on 6 freshly charged cells.


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## rwolff (Jul 21, 2006)

If you're careful about which NiMH batteries you get, you can use an 8AA-2D holder and a 6 cell Mag bulb (9.6V from 8 NiMH as opposed to 9V from 6 alkaline). If you go the 3D host route, use a 9AA-3D holder and a dummy cell.

With 6 NiMH, you're running 7.2V - way too low for a 6 cell (9V) bulb, but a pretty good match for a 5 cell (7.5V) bulb.


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## schiesz (Jul 21, 2006)

I agree with 6 AA alks you should use the 5 cel mag or radioshack bulbs for better output that the 6 cel mag xenon. I use one with 3 CR123s in a 2C and the output is very nice.

schiesz


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## NikolaTesla (Jul 21, 2006)

If you get it to bright, better buy the Mag replacement glass lens, its only 2 bucks. More than 10 watts melts the plastic lens. Good Luck


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## litho123 (Jul 22, 2006)

There are a couple of bulbs that can be dropped in ... BUT they are over the 10w limit for the stock plastic lens/reflector. You can use it for a while until you notice the plastic deforming ... which will then need to be replaced. However, it's a good way to "test-drive" a hot-wire modded light.

The Halogen version of the Carley 1499 and the Carley 1057 would be the next step above the 5-6 cell Maglite bulbs in terms of brightness. You will get around 50 - 60 minutes of runtime before needing a recharge and it will be plenty bright.

H1499p @ 370 b-lumens at spec
CL1057p @ 450 b-lumens on overdrive
Remember: Take 65% of the bulb-lumens to get estimated torch-lumens out the front of the light...

The next step beyond that would be the WA-1111. However, finding them already potted in a PR base will be tough to find.

I have extra stock reflectors / extra lenses / etc. along with the above mentioned bulbs if you want to give them a try. 

PM me if interested.


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## Icebreak (Jul 22, 2006)

I would echo the stated caveat that giving a HotWire away as a gift using fragile plastic holders that require non-intuitive serial cell installation will be a challenge to the recipient. 4C in a 3D using an XPR103 is quite nice, quite white, not awesome but easy for the user to reload and has good runtime.

I don't have the holders you bought so my experience isn't perfectly equated to this equipment.

Also remember that when reading about calculations it should considered that "hot off the charger" is much different than a few hours of "resting" the cells.

Long ago some CPF members discovered and agreed that 10W was about all a stock Mag reflector/window(lens) could handle.

I've used higher than 10W combinations for 2 to 3 minute bursts and longer with no problems. 

Take the KPR118 against 9 rechargeable AA cells in series using 3 X 3AAtoD holders. This is a known good solution. Rated at 7.2V .700A when driven at 10.8 Volts X .700 Amps is 7.56 Watts. In reality it's a little higher than the calculation. That's safe for the OME reflector/lens and overdriving the bulb nicely.

Using ElectroLumens 3AAtoD version 1 high resistance holders, I've used 9 alkaline AA cells to power a KPR118. That's 12.6V X .700A = 8.82 W. Again, in reality it's a little higher. Very nice. Shouldn't work but it does.

I'm thinking you are looking for the perfect 10W HotWire bulb. Here's some speculation not based on experience:

Using 9 AA rechargeables, a calculated perfect bulb would be rated 7.2V .925A. overdriven to 10.8V. How about that Pelican Big D Alkaline 8W Brighteyes mentioned.

Because Pelican is known to be pretty darn close on watt ratings that 7.2V 8W bulb is probably rated at 1.00 Amp. Overdriven it might be 1.20 Amps. Let's drive it at 10.8V X 1.20A and get 12.96 Watts. Taking sag, resistance and daily discharge in to account; it could be that this combination could be ran for several minutes without any problems.

That's my $9.15 worth. Tag. You're it.


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## ciam (Jul 22, 2006)

Thanks to every single one of you, I have really learnt a lot in this thread. I think I have to be more conservative and also make sure the mod would work for both alkaline and NiMH rechargeable batteries. Looks like I'm going to test out the Xenon 6D and KPR118 bulbs for now. Thanks again.


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## Brighteyez (Jul 22, 2006)

6 cell bulbs are usually rated for 7.2 V. Even the generic KPR118 that people often use for 9V applications, and is generally sold for 6 cell flashlight applications is rated for 7.2V. And given the kind of output that I'm getting from a 6 cell Mag-Num Star (almost to the level of a SL20 or Mag Charger), from 6 NiMH cells, I would think that it too is probably rated for 7.2V. The "5 Cell" bulbs that you reference are usually rated for 6V, and 4 cell bulbs at 4.8V.



rwolff said:


> If you're careful about which NiMH batteries you get, you can use an 8AA-2D holder and a 6 cell Mag bulb (9.6V from 8 NiMH as opposed to 9V from 6 alkaline). If you go the 3D host route, use a 9AA-3D holder and a dummy cell.
> 
> With 6 NiMH, you're running 7.2V - way too low for a 6 cell (9V) bulb, but a pretty good match for a 5 cell (7.5V) bulb.


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## Brighteyez (Jul 22, 2006)

Stretching the spring did take care of the contact issue, thanks. I expanded it a tad more than I needed to and will run it that way for a while to see how much it compresses, especially if I put the LED module back in and run 2D batteries in it (gonna go pick up another 2D today for the 6 cell version.) If it works, it looks like it could be a nice little backup light to a SL20 or a Mag Charger.



DonShock said:


> I had the spring problem too, but just figured it was due to compression of the spring since the Mag2D was pretty old. I just pulled out the switch and stretched the spring a little. I haven't had a problem since then.


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## dim (Jul 22, 2006)

I use a MAG118 8xAA 2D. Certainly, it's no ROP, but with 1800mAh NiMH batts, it still produces about about 150 lumens for 2 hours with a KPR118 7.2V bulb drawing about 700mA.

The 8xAA NiMH drives the KPR118 very well without "over over" driving it to produce a good shade of "incandescent white" over several battery cycles for a guestimated 5-10 hours of bulb life. YMMV. I do not use the batteries "hot off the charger", letting them cool before using them.

In this configuration, I've used my MAG118 turned on for about 20-30 minutes at a time and for a cumulative hour over a period of 1.5 hours with no heat or melting issues with stock MAG parts.

Simple, bright and safe with good runtime.

I've flashed a KPR118 on eight alkalines. On seven alkies, I've had to constantly downgrade bulbs from a KPR118 to a KPR112, then a KPR104 just to maintain color and some semblance of brightness.

73
dim


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## missionaryman (Jul 23, 2006)

the Pelican Big ED has a 9 volt 8 watt bulb (300 bulb lumens) wich is about 30% brighter than the 6 cell Mag NumStar and should work with the same set up of 3 x 123A and STD lens/reflector.


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## Brighteyez (Jul 23, 2006)

I think you meant the 8W bulb for the alkaline version of the Pelican Big D. The Big ED uses 4 C batteries in it's alkaline version. But thanks, it looks like it might be worth trying out though I don't know if it would perform well with AA alkalines; the 1.3A draw should not be a problem with NiMH batteries though.



missionaryman said:


> the Pelican Big ED has a 9 volt 8 watt bulb (300 bulb lumens) wich is about 30% brighter than the 6 cell Mag NumStar and should work with the same set up of 3 x 123A and STD lens/reflector.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 23, 2006)

Long before I became a CPFer I was doing "mods" to have brighter/better beams.

The prime thing I did was use 1" PVC pipe and put one extra C cell in 3D and up lights. The higher number of cells you start with, the less stress on the overdrive.

The other simple trick that works is to center the bulb up in the reflector. A fingernail clipper is a good tool for tweaking the PR base of the bulb.

Nowadays of course I do stuff like 8AA NimH against 6 cell bulb, 6AA against 4 cell etc.

And for beam fixin' I use ArmourEtch glass etching cream to frost the bulbs.

8AA against a medium frosted 6 cell Krypton gives a pretty dang usefull beam!!!

I sincerly hope something in this post is of help to you!


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## beakman (Jul 24, 2006)

I've used the 4-Cell KPR113 Krypton bulb with 6AA NiMH batteries, and they haven't insta-flashed. The re-rating formulas give about 210 bulb-lumens, or about 135 torch lumens with this setup (assuming ~35% loss from reflector/lens/etc.).

Also, there's the Sears Ultra-Beam Xenon Bulb (6v, 0.975A) that I think should give similar performance, and is not overdriven quite as hard. You can find these at Sears stores in a 2-bulb pack for about $7-$8. Also works on 7AA NiMH.

I have to get a hold of some of those Pelican Big-Ed rechargeable bulbs and try them with this setup.

beakman


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## pizzaman (Jul 24, 2006)

My two favorite mag mods-

3D to 4C: This is the fastest, cheapest, mag mod around. Pull the 3Ds, drop in 4Cs. No need for a sleeve adapter, but if you really want to, you can add a PVC sleeve. Make it a little shorter than the batteries so it will not interfere with the end cap. Wrap the outside of the PVC with electrical tape or O-rings for a more professional fit. Turn the spring upside down, screw the end cap back on. Install a XPR103 bulb from RadioShack. If you want to spiff up the beam artifacts, you can sputter the reflector or frost the bulb (my new favorite method). Switch on and enjoy. The light can easily be returned to stock if desired.

2C to 3 CR123 lithium: This is the biggest bang for the buck, with the most light in the smallest package. Remove batts, insert a tube of PVC (a bit shorter than the length of the batts to insure it will not interfere with the end cap). Wrap the outside of the PVC with electrical tape or O-rings for a more professional fit. I don't even modify the spring, but you could cut it down a bit or bend the end to fit the bottom of a CR123 better. Install a Maglite Magnum star 6 cell xenon light. Frost the bulb or sputter the reflector for fewer beam artifacts. The light can easily be returned to stock if desired. Switch on and be blown away. This mod is fast and a crowd pleaser. Every item can be purchased at your neighborhood hardware store.

For a more custom look, pick up a colored maglight body (Home Depot sometimes still has pewter, blue, purple, and gold 2C bodies if you dig to the back of the shelf) and wrap the knurling with black cloth friction tape. It looks cool and smokes other stock lights.

Good luck, TR


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## Brighteyez (Jul 24, 2006)

The modification that was originally discussed in this thread is pretty much similar to the modification that you describe. The difference is that the 6AA to 2D modification enables the use of commonly available AA sized batteries, has a longer run time. The level of light output from this light (and yes, there is a whole lot of that!,) makes for a pretty harsh and ringy output that almost requires a textured reflector of some sort, however the downside to that is that if you ever have a need to revert back to it's use as a 2C or 2D flashlight (even if you use the LED Module), you'll need the unaltered stock reflector. So if you can bear it (and it would be tough to do so), it might be better to keep the original reflector, or have a spare reflector that is textured (sputtered), ... or get something like one of the LOP reflectors that can be used for both purposes. 



pizzaman said:


> 2C to 3 CR123 lithium: This is the biggest bang for the buck, with the most light in the smallest package. Remove batts, insert a tube of PVC (a bit shorter than the length of the batts to insure it will not interfere with the end cap). Wrap the outside of the PVC with electrical tape or O-rings for a more professional fit. I don't even modify the spring, but you could cut it down a bit or bend the end to fit the bottom of a CR123 better. Install a Maglite Magnum star 6 cell xenon light. Frost the bulb or sputter the reflector for fewer beam artifacts. The light can easily be returned to stock if desired.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 24, 2006)

Let me mention this just one more time...

Frosting bulbs is my fave method of beam fixin' these days! We don't need no stinkin sputtering!

Be SURE to start conservatively... say 15 seconds to start with. 

The light/medium frosted 1160 in my M*gcharger gives up VERY little over unfrosted but gains a beam that is WAY better than stock!

Some of the goofiest beams I have ever seen have been saved by ArmourEtch!!!


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## missionaryman (Jul 24, 2006)

has anyone tried 3 x LIR123A in a 2C with the 6 cell Num Star bulb, it's 1.8v overdrive so it should just be able to take it and be even brighter than the 3 x CR123A as well as being rechargable.


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## Brighteyez (Jul 26, 2006)

I think I'd be more inclined to use two 17500's in a 2 C sized light or a pair of 18650s in a D cell light. While it won't be as bright as what you propose, one can be more trusting that the light will illuminate the next time they activate it.



missionaryman said:


> has anyone tried 3 x LIR123A in a 2C with the 6 cell Num Star bulb, it's 1.8v overdrive so it should just be able to take it and be even brighter than the 3 x CR123A as well as being rechargable.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 26, 2006)

It is entirely possible to get two 18650 into a 2C....

That is how my ROP HI runs. It runs in a LOP and while not perfect of beam, it IS bright!

I still frost for MOST of my Incandescent lights!!!


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## missionaryman (Jul 26, 2006)

My 2C, 9 cell Num Star and 123A's finally arrived from Gad Zooks last night (28 days it took) and I built the 3 x 123A with the 6 cell Num Star bulb. 

It's bright but not as white as the 2 x 18650 with the 5 cell Num Star bulb - that combo is definately whiter and may be producing around the same lumen count for the first half hour while the batteries are still above 4.0v each. in fact my ROP low on 2 x 18650 is also whiter than the 3 x 123A + 6 cell Num Star combo.

****DO NOT TRY THE 6 CELL BULB WITH 3 X 3.6V LiIon 123A CELLS*** * it flashed the bulb instantly.

For the brightest mod with stock parts I would say try the 6 cell Num Star Xenon bulb in a 2 D with 7AA, you might just get away with 8AA but I'd rest them first before hitting the switch and keep a second bulb handy.

Alternatively the 6D cell 200 lumen Pelican Big D 3800 bulb (3804) might handle 10.8v from 3 LiIon cells and be brighter - I can't say because I havent tried it.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 26, 2006)

Back to the question...

The quickest and simplest thing to do is use a piece of 1" PVC and put 4C where 3D were.
It isn't the brightest by ANY stretch, but is easy and was pretty good for me before getting some superbulbs and battery holders.

And a nice beam is just 15-45 seconds of ArmourEtch (3oz. $7.99 at Hobby Lobby) away.

Anything a whole lot brighter in a 3D is going to cost a lot more!

edit> However if you are going to use 3AA-D adapters, 6AA against a 4 cell Krypton in a 2D is a decent step up from 4C against 3 cell <edit


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## ciam (Jul 29, 2006)

Thanks. There's really a wealth of info here and I've saved the whole thread on my computer for future reference. Although I'm going with Xenon 6D or KPR118 bulbs this time because I'm just too poor to experiment now (I'm building a Mag85 at the same time too). I would really like to push the envelope next time when I build more Mag mods, likely for Xmas gifts.

I have a question regarding spraying a clear coat of paint to "sputter the reflector." I've painted on many different kind of surfaces. As far as I know, a coat of paint wouldn't hold too well onto the glossy surface of a reflector and would peel off easily. I wonder if there's a trick that people use to avoid this.


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## NikolaTesla (Jul 31, 2006)

A 2C with potted Carley 1099 and 2 18650 LiIons is very nice simple mod. You need glass lens and metal reflector though...


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## mudman cj (Aug 26, 2006)

I couldn't find the Carley 1099 on their website and I can't find where to buy one. :thinking: But before I buy one I want to know what it draws from two 18650s. Thanks.


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## fivemega (Aug 26, 2006)

NikolaTesla said:


> A 2C with potted Carley 1099 and 2 18650 LiIons is very nice simple mod. You need glass lens and metal reflector though...



It is a typo and should be Carley 1499


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## litho123 (Aug 26, 2006)

*NikolaTesla said:*
_A 2C with potted Carley 1099 and 2 18650 LiIons is very nice simple mod. You need glass lens and metal reflector though..._

*mudman cj said:*
_I couldn't find the Carley 1099 on their website and I can't find where to buy one.



But before I buy one I want to know what it draws from two 18650s. Thanks._

Actually it's the *Carley 1499*. You can't find a spec sheet on that one either. 
These are the potted variety and available here...
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/116730

These are customized with the Halogen fill to keep the bulb from blackening inside.

Here are the specs:
Halogen Filled Carley 1499
voltage: 7.2v 
Amperage: 1.845a ... tolerance (+or-) 10%
MSCP: 29.5 ... tolerance (+or-) 15%
Color Temp 3360K ... tolerance (+or-) 50K
Lamp life at spec: 10 hours


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## bimemrboy318 (Sep 7, 2006)

I've got the Mag White Star 5-cell Krypton bulb with 3xCR123s. No insta-flash and performance is great. Under load the CRx123 batts are only pushing ~2.3V so really the 6V 5-cell bulb has about 7V going to it.





Brighteyez said:


> 6 cell bulbs are usually rated for 7.2 V. Even the generic KPR118 that people often use for 9V applications, and is generally sold for 6 cell flashlight applications is rated for 7.2V. And given the kind of output that I'm getting from a 6 cell Mag-Num Star (almost to the level of a SL20 or Mag Charger), from 6 NiMH cells, I would think that it too is probably rated for 7.2V. The "5 Cell" bulbs that you reference are usually rated for 6V, and 4 cell bulbs at 4.8V.


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## rkboyer911 (Feb 8, 2007)

Well all my 1st mod was this one I just did the 3-CR123 w/ the 6cell xenon bulb WOW its darn near as bright as me gladius...now is the beam as nice no...but for a few bucks spent on a light that didnt have batteries in it for years...I think it was well worth it!!!


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