# Cree XT-E White announced



## mds82 (Feb 7, 2012)

Cree's XT-E White announced 

http://cree.com/products/xlamp_xte_awt.asp


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Feb 7, 2012)

Whoa - Fwd voltage all the way down to 2.50v!


----------



## hank (Feb 7, 2012)

Dang, I need to replace all my flashlights again.


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Feb 7, 2012)

hank said:


> Dang, I need to replace all my flashlights again.



Fortunately, Cree can't release new lighting standards that make old lights obsolete (Here's looking at .doc/.docX!). But I keep wanting to take their new phosphor-dome LEDs and make a showerhead dropin taking 1 amp per LED. I think 3xIMR18650 would give me 20A of direct drive fury...


----------



## orbital (Feb 7, 2012)

+

They have a very floody _*Typical Spatial Distribution*_, more than say XP-G.


Looks geared for room lighting systems.


----------



## calipsoii (Feb 7, 2012)

Looks like they're only guaranteeing 80CRI with this new batch. I guess 90CRI isn't worth the effort?


----------



## mvyrmnd (Feb 7, 2012)

AnAppleSnail said:


> Fortunately, Cree can't release new lighting standards that make old lights obsolete (Here's looking at .doc/.docX!). But I keep wanting to take their new phosphor-dome LEDs and make a showerhead dropin taking 1 amp per LED. I think 3xIMR18650 would give me 20A of direct drive fury...



Hey! That was my idea!


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Feb 7, 2012)

mvyrmnd said:


> Hey! That was my idea!


It's not like I have 3x IMR18650 to use ... so I think you'll beat me to it. But I do have about twelve LifePO4 18500s. 600 mAh capacity though


----------



## MikeAusC (Feb 7, 2012)

AnAppleSnail said:


> Whoa - Fwd voltage all the way down to 2.50v!



2.50 volts . . . at ONE milliamp.

At 700mA it drops 3.05 volt.

At 700mA the XM-L drops 2.90 volt.


----------



## MikeAusC (Feb 7, 2012)

hank said:


> Dang, I need to replace all my flashlights again.



Why ???

At 700mA an XT-E Neutral puts out 203 Lumens.

At 700mA an XP-G Neutral puts out 213 Lumens.

At 700mA an XM-L Neutral puts out 240 Lumens.


----------



## mvyrmnd (Feb 7, 2012)

True, but if you take physical size and cost into account, you can get more lumens per square centimeter, for less money using XT-E's.



AnAppleSnail said:


> It's not like I have 3x IMR18650 to use ... so I think you'll beat me to it. But I do have about twelve LifePO4 18500s. 600 mAh capacity though



I don't have the skill to build anything like that, so I'm guessing you'll win


----------



## hank (Feb 7, 2012)

> Why??

a) just kidding,
b) "very floody" works for me, and
c) I'm watching fixed lighting cost/efficiency, eventually planning on adding cove lighting everywhere.


----------



## Microa (Feb 7, 2012)

MikeAusC said:


> Why ???
> 
> At 700mA an XT-E Neutral puts out 203 Lumens.
> 
> ...



XT-E is rated at Tj=85C while XP-G and XM-L are rated at Tj=25C, the output of XT-E at least as good as the XP-G.


----------



## JohnR66 (Feb 7, 2012)

Would have to do a comparison of the spacial distribution curves. The design looks like it might put more light into a reflector. May be an interesting flashlight LED.


----------



## tstartrekdude (Feb 7, 2012)

It sure looks to have a 1mm by 1mm die, and given the very high binning temperature...This may be the first good news for thrower fans in a very long time.


----------



## fyrstormer (Feb 8, 2012)

AnAppleSnail said:


> Fortunately, Cree can't release new lighting standards that make old lights obsolete (Here's looking at .doc/.docX!). But I keep wanting to take their new phosphor-dome LEDs and make a showerhead dropin taking 1 amp per LED. I think 3xIMR18650 would give me 20A of direct drive fury...


For some reason, when you mentioned the word "showerhead", I envisioned a desk lamp made from an actual showerhead, with the nozzles replaced with LEDs, constructed specifically for the purpose of confusing the hell out of everyone.


----------



## saabluster (Feb 8, 2012)

tstartrekdude said:


> It sure looks to have a 1mm by 1mm die, and given the very high binning temperature...This may be the first good news for thrower fans in a very long time.



Yes it is 1mmx1mm. Good news for thrower fans? Meh.


----------



## frosty (Feb 8, 2012)

Microa said:


> XT-E is rated at Tj=85C while XP-G and XM-L are rated at Tj=25C, the output of XT-E at least as good as the XP-G.



This is a significant change to the way they are binned.


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Feb 8, 2012)

frosty said:


> This is a significant change to the way they are binned.


They've tried to make things more realistic - like FourSevens stepping up to the ANSI rating and having their S2 XP-G quarks rated at lower output than the R5-bin lights.



JohnR66 said:


> Would have to do a comparison of the spacial distribution curves. The design looks like it might put more light into a reflector. May be an interesting flashlight LED.








XT-E left, XP-G right. I can't make heads or tails of it. Maybe the XP-G curve is plumper in the middle and lower at the edges though.


----------



## Z-Max (Feb 8, 2012)

Microa said:


> XT-E is rated at Tj=85C while XP-G and XM-L are rated at Tj=25C, the output of XT-E at least as good as the XP-G.



But XTE has termal resistance 5 C/W, XML 2.5.


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Feb 8, 2012)

Z-Max said:


> But XTE has termal resistance 5 C/W, XML 2.5.


XT-E 5 C/W 3.45mm square, 100% rated output at 85C
XP-G 4 C/W 3.45mm square, 88% rated output at 85C
XM-L 2.5 C/W 5mm square, 90% rated output at 85C

Compare the area and rated output at 85C.


----------



## SemiMan (Feb 8, 2012)

AnAppleSnail said:


> They've tried to make things more realistic - like FourSevens stepping up to the ANSI rating and having their S2 XP-G quarks rated at lower output than the R5-bin lights.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spatial distribution is likely a far-field measurement and hence the source size does not play into it. It gives an indication, but only that, of how it will do in a reflector. However, given that it has that shape and the source size is small, one could guess that perhaps it behaves like a small source and would be better than the XP-G


----------



## bshanahan14rulz (Feb 8, 2012)

I think the thing to do is figure out if the whole dome, or even the entire "clear" covering, corners and all, lights up, and then figure out an LED that has that same apparent size. 

I like when Cree releases new LEDs. I just wish it would affect the prices of the "old" ones more ;-)


----------



## saabluster (Feb 8, 2012)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> I think the thing to do is figure out if the whole dome, or even the entire "clear" covering, corners and all, lights up, and then figure out an LED that has that same apparent size.
> 
> I like when Cree releases new LEDs. I just wish it would affect the prices of the "old" ones more ;-)


At least in the "old" XP-E HEW, which is identical to the XT-E from chip up, the dome was perfectly clear. The dome did not contain any phosphor despite some people's comments around here. I ripped the dome off to see for myself.


----------



## blasterman (Feb 8, 2012)

> Looks geared for room lighting systems.



Cree makes power LEDs that aren't geared towards 'room lighting'?


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Feb 8, 2012)

blasterman said:


> Cree makes power LEDs that aren't geared towards 'room lighting'?


They make some that work well enough for flashlights.


----------



## RoGuE_StreaK (Feb 8, 2012)

Any ideas on pricing / availability of these? Seems vaguely comparable to an XP-G but with less output as the current increases, so unless it's significantly cheaper, the XP-G's still better for mine. I think I'd want it to be at least 2/3 the cost. Yeah the voltage/current is slightly less, theoretically you could feed it 1.5A for the entire useable portion of a single lipo, but the XP-G is only slightly affected at the tail end of lipo life, depending on where you set your cutoff voltage.

PS. Where'd that spatial distribution image come from? Seems a lot different to the one on page 9 of the spec sheet? eg. I read 60% output @ 50degrees according to the spec sheet?


----------



## darkmilk (Feb 8, 2012)

Looks like just under AU $2 each, but the site doesn't specify which bin/tint that is.


----------



## RoGuE_StreaK (Feb 8, 2012)

Interesting, Cutter has them (as darkmilk said, no bin specified) for about Aus$2 each, as opposed to the XP-G's at $5.50+ each! Have requested a sample, I was going to be tossing up between XP-G's and XM-L's (for "ludicrously bright" option, well, relatively), but these seem reasonably comparable to the XP-G for almost _1/3 of the price_, just depends on whether there's enough lumens for my needs; I know, you can never have enough lumens, but considering a Luxeon K2 seemed to almost reach my initial goals, these suckers may well do the trick.

That said, the cost of the LEDs is nothing compared to the rest of the system...

Any thoughts on how these are likely to compare heat-wise? I'm not very good at interpreting the figures to deduce what kind of heat it'll generate.


----------



## pretmetled (Feb 9, 2012)

blasterman said:


> Cree makes power LEDs that aren't geared towards 'room lighting'?



Stupid question: Who does make mid-power LEDs that are geared towards room lighting? Since low/mid/high is rather subjective, say 100 - 200 mW per emitter.


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Feb 9, 2012)

RoGuE_StreaK said:


> Any thoughts on how these are likely to compare heat-wise? I'm not very good at interpreting the figures to deduce what kind of heat it'll generate.



I suggest "Enough heatsink to keep the LED at 85 C or so." How hard is that? This means that your heatsink has to remain below 75C or so, given LED and MCPCB thermal resistance. That's still a hot heatsink (can be small due to large deltaT), so...look at existing LED arrays, these aren't wildly more or less efficient than existing new Crees.


----------



## HumanLumen (Feb 9, 2012)

Has anyone (Saabluster??) been able to trial these yet for use in a torch/flashlight (depending on which side of the pond you are from!!)

HL


----------



## saabluster (Feb 9, 2012)

HumanLumen said:


> Has anyone (Saabluster??) been able to trial these yet for use in a torch/flashlight (depending on which side of the pond you are from!!)
> 
> HL


I have tried the XP-E HEW which is virtually identical. Good with reflectors but not aspheric lenses unless the beam is diffused.


----------



## HumanLumen (Feb 10, 2012)

Thanks Saabluster. If I may push the question a little further, would the spot produced by the XPE-HEW be brighter than the XP-G, assuming same current, luminance bin, reflector etc?

Cheers!
HL


----------



## Nil Einne (Feb 17, 2012)

MikeAusC said:


> Why ???
> 
> At 700mA an XT-E Neutral puts out 203 Lumens.
> 
> ...





AnAppleSnail said:


> XT-E 5 C/W 3.45mm square, 100% rated output at 85C
> XP-G 4 C/W 3.45mm square, 88% rated output at 85C
> XM-L 2.5 C/W 5mm square, 90% rated output at 85C
> 
> Compare the area and rated output at 85C.



Presuming these 2 posts are accurate (I'm lazy to check) and I didn't screw up, at 700mA and 85C

XT-E neutral 203 lumens
XP-G neutral 187 lumens
XM-L neutral 216 lumens


----------



## degarb (Feb 18, 2012)

A casual observer--with such a low fvoltage, would these work good on 6 volt, if two XT-E's were used in series with direct drive? 


7.6 volts is not easy or very practical, But 6v is--4 AA rechargeables, or one 4.5 amp hour agm. Naturally, one would like no more draw than 400 milliamps, for useful runtimes. Maybe xml is better for 6 volt? (I don't like efficiency drop of drivers; since, with dual led using 4AA direct drive, I could get 200 lumens at same current drive level that my Fenix hp20 uses for 130 lumen. Yes, current drops over time, but with variable resistor, you can lower resistance as time goes on--provided enough over head, but not too much that would pop the led on fresh cells.)

Then with price drop, it would be even more practical of a design.


----------



## Bright_Light (Feb 24, 2012)

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/press/34300



> *LEDiL qualifies lenses for use with new Cree XLamp XT-E LED*
> 
> Date Announced: 18 Feb 2012
> LEDiL announces the availability of 33 lenses qualified for use with Cree’s new XLamp® XT-E White LED, which Cree promotes as delivering twice the lumens-per-dollar of other LEDs.


----------



## RoGuE_StreaK (Feb 24, 2012)

I notice that Cutter now has the XT-E White listed for around $3, as opposed to the $2 or so they originally listed them as.


----------



## bshanahan14rulz (Feb 28, 2012)

the Wiki article on LEDs has some nice diagrams about light extraction. Most of it is common sense, but it's a good visualization at least, and explains what Cree was trying to do with that funky gem top they stuck in thar...


----------



## blasterman (Feb 28, 2012)

> Who does make mid-power LEDs that are geared towards room lighting?



The entire Semi-Conductor industry?


----------



## Toaster79 (Mar 13, 2012)

New arrival:














Settings: F4 S6" ISO 100 WB Daylight
maxflex @1300mA optics Satu 9deg XT-E





Same settings, drive current and optics, XP-E


----------



## ssvqwnp (Mar 13, 2012)

Drastically brighter, thanks for sharing!


----------



## Bright_Light (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks for the pic Toaster79. Brilliant!


----------



## degarb (Mar 15, 2012)

ssvqwnp said:


> Drastically brighter, thanks for sharing!



On my computer screen, it doesn't look drastically brighter--just way better color and a bit more floody, with a bit less throw.

This is just one optic. I am looking forward to reflector beam shots.


----------



## degarb (Mar 15, 2012)

Also, if you look carefully, the xt-e looks like it may be pointed a few degrees to right, while xp-e is to left. The xt-e shot has logs on right and spouting illuminated brightly, as is the center right foreground pot; while the xp-e has bushes off to left illuminated brightly, and so, the covered grill is a bit more lit up. Also, based on shadowing, the xp-e looks a tad lower in relation to the camera.

The xt-e color is very nice.


----------



## psychbeat (Mar 15, 2012)

I like the tint!

as was said- looks a bit floodier w less throw than the XPE

Ill keep an eye on this thread to see some hard #s 

thanks for the pics!
:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Mike S (Mar 15, 2012)

I had some come in today. They're only about $2.50 which was a little less than the XP-E from the same supplier. I expected them to be priced closer to the XP-G.


----------



## wquiles (Mar 15, 2012)

Mike S said:


> I had some come in today. They're only about $2.50 which was a little less than the XP-E from the same supplier. I expected them to be priced closer to the XP-G.



Kind of hard to guess what is what without any text/labels. Can I assume that those are (from left to right):
XP-C -- XP-E -- XP-G -- XT-E ?


Is the surface mount foot print the same (interchangeable)?


----------



## znomit (Mar 15, 2012)

Mike S said:


> I had some come in today. They're only about $2.50 which was a little less than the XP-E from the same supplier. I expected them to be priced closer to the XP-G.



Could you please light up the XTE a wee bit so we can see the shape.


----------



## Mike S (Mar 16, 2012)

wquiles said:


> Kind of hard to guess what is what without any text/labels. Can I assume that those are (from left to right):
> XP-C -- XP-E -- XP-G -- XT-E ?
> 
> 
> Is the surface mount foot print the same (interchangeable)?



You're correct on the order. Sorry about that. Here are the cropped versions which call out the LED's.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/mg_steele/LEDs/xpcXpeXpgXte_5.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/mg_steele/LEDs/xpcXpeXpgXte_4.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/mg_steele/LEDs/xpcXpeXpgXte_6.jpg

I didn't look that closely at the solder pads, but it appeared to be the same. The dimensions on the datasheet match the XP-G, however the XT-E appears to have a slightly larger base. 



znomit said:


> Could you please light up the XTE a wee bit so we can see the shape.



Sure, I'll grab another photo tonight.


----------



## uk_caver (Mar 16, 2012)

degarb said:


> Also, if you look carefully, the xt-e looks like it may be pointed a few degrees to right, while xp-e is to left. The xt-e shot has logs on right and spouting illuminated brightly, as is the center right foreground pot; while the xp-e has bushes off to left illuminated brightly, and so, the covered grill is a bit more lit up. Also, based on shadowing, the xp-e looks a tad lower in relation to the camera.







Apologies for the flashing, but the above gives an idea of the differences.
Images overlaid in photoshop, default greyscaled, and animated.
XT-E is the one with the brighter foreground.

Even with the XT-E picture being somewhat more rightwards-biased, the area on the bottom-to-mid extreme left is significantly brighter.


----------



## fyrstormer (Mar 16, 2012)

The 4th emitter in this lineup looks like a Cree XP-G Hi-CRI that I bought from LED-Tech.de a few months ago.


----------



## Mike S (Mar 16, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> The 4th emitter in this lineup looks like a Cree XP-G Hi-CRI that I bought from LED-Tech.de a few months ago.



You have me second guessing now that you said that. I haven't seen a high CRI XP-G or XP-E and after googling it, they do look very similar. These were purchased from Newark. It's listed as an XT-E (XTEAWT-02-0000-00000LEE3). From what I've noticed, the big component suppliers don't carry high CRI Cree's. When I set my power supply to constant current mode and fired up the LED, the Vf matched the XP-G almost exactly up until 700 mA when I stopped the test. 

Here are the close up photo's of the emitter.











I did notice right away that this type of die structure throws a lot more light backwards onto the table.


----------



## och (Mar 16, 2012)

How does it compare to the XM-L?


----------



## psychbeat (Mar 23, 2012)

The Hi CRI xpg in my lights all have green pcb not the yellow. 
I have 3 of then


----------



## bshanahan14rulz (Mar 23, 2012)

^ I have only seen the official cree photo, but that photo does indeed show a green pcb and the raised structure of the new flip chip


----------



## kosPap (Sep 13, 2013)

thread resurrection....

I am trying to find the XT-E die dimensions....
Unless I am blind i cannot see them in the datasheet


----------



## Toaster79 (Sep 13, 2013)

Nevermind


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Sep 30, 2014)

The XT-E is one of the good candidates for "no-heatsink" operation. When run with a dialed-down potentiometer on 2 NiMHs, the glow is pleasant. Mine hangs by 2 whisker wires I soldered to a bare sample XT-E. It's a good nightstand light to see my water glass.


----------



## degarb (Sep 30, 2014)

AnAppleSnail said:


> The XT-E is one of the good candidates for "no-heatsink" operation. When run with a dialed-down potentiometer on 2 NiMHs, the glow is pleasant. Mine hangs by 2 whisker wires I soldered to a bare sample XT-E. It's a good nightstand light to see my water glass.



I never thought to home make a 2aa direct drive for the kids and bed. Did you measure current? Who has these cheapest on star? 


The typical 3aaa 9 led light draws(along with some fixed, built in resistor ) about 11ma from nimh 2aaa. Fine for kid reading light, which is left on all week. Xte should be brighter.


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Oct 1, 2014)

degarb said:


> I never thought to home make a 2aa direct drive for the kids and bed. Did you measure current? Who has these cheapest on star? The typical 3aaa 9 led light draws(along with some fixed, built in resistor ) about 11ma from nimh 2aaa. Fine for kid reading light, which is left on all week. Xte should be brighter.


 I hadn't bothered to measure current. I tend to pick a resistor value giving .3 to 3 lumens. That suggests a current around 1 mA. On a well-settled C NiMH, I get about 20 lumens with no resistor. That would suggest about 30 mA, but I never measured it. I think Cutter had them at $4 on a star. No line breaks! I have a bare XT-E at 1-30 mA, and of course no heat problems.


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Oct 3, 2014)

Using the Cree data from the Product Characterization Tool, and data from the Eneloop datasheet, I put this together. With 2 Eneloops, the starting voltage per cell is 1.45v, giving 2.90v to begin. This suggests a current of 210mA, giving 90 lumens from an XT-E R4 bin. I will have to insert my table as an image. These are calculated values, not measurements. Using interpolation, I can calculate the change in the Eneloop voltage based on current draw, and then the change in LED current and output based on the new voltage. That allows me to predict an initial output of 90 lumens, dropping to 64 lumens after 10 minutes. Incidentally, the ANSI FL-1 output of a bare XT-E on 2 Eneloops would be 90 lumens for 1.8 hours. After 1.8 hours, the LED would be running at 9 lumens (6 mA), and have only consumed 100 mAh of capacity (95% remaining).




Extrapolating the Cree data beyond this is not reasonable, and we would need real measurements.


----------



## degarb (Oct 4, 2014)

Of course you are using a variable resistor, so infinite control and longer runtime. 

What potentiometer are you using? Jameco has some that might work, cheaply (would any of these work?). I was a big fan of the instant gratification, Radio Shack $3 25 ohm (if I recall correctly) variable (modifying direct drive and china controller that are not fixed current), until I got addicted to the Buckpuck with its dimmer (ledsupply and other sources).

Undoubtedly, logically, the way to go for sub $10 low-lumen lights is: 2 AA + cheap electronics + removable tir (dirt cheap and swappable beam patterns) + highly efficient & accesible led, but not over priced. Though my xte was white with no optic, but wanko colors with reflector, never tested with tir. 

My daughters hang onto lights fairly well, maybe a loss every 6 months. Wife and son can loose one or two light a week. Price matters.


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Oct 5, 2014)

I built this with a 100 ohm resistor. I measured 4 mA and 2.7v at the LED. That's about right for 5 lumens, similar to a Mag Solitaire. This should get about 200x the runtime though.






I like audio tapers for the nicer dimming. This doesn't use a potentiometer, but my lightbox does - A "stereo volume" potentiometer. If I wire to the right pins, I can push-in the knob to turn it off.


----------

