# LightForce SL240 HID Conversion



## Sway (Feb 12, 2004)

I have been wanting a HID light for sometime but everything was out of my price range so I was stuck on the bench while many other were in the game having fun. While ridding the pine so to say I had time to think and scheme, I already have a LightForce SL240 Blitz one of the longest throwing off the shelf 100W Halogens but the reflector is a metallised polymer so a higher wattage lamp will result in melt down.

LightForce has an off road vehicle HID system but it's a different animal from the hand held lights and very expensive.

I contacted LightForce and confirmed the reflector was the same in the hand held and off road light so I had to figure out how to convert the Blitz to HID. I ordered a KenRad 35/50W boost ballast, igniter and a Osram D2S lamp. If you are familiar with the Blitz the only thing big about it is the reflector so you don’t have a lot of room to work with so the ballast and igniter has to be mounted outside of the light. 

It took several hours of trimming and filing to get the socket and lamp base down to size so they would fit inside the handle but I think the results were worth while. I’m still working something’s out as far at the ballast and igniter but the performance should remain the same. All HID pictures were made using the 50W boost have a look.



Halogen Blitz around 215 Yds.






HID Blitz






½ Mile white golf ball thingy.
Halogen Blitz (old pic using a little zoom)





HID Blitz





Later
Sway


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## Ginseng (Feb 12, 2004)

That is [email protected]#*$& insane! I love it! Nice work Sway. So, um, PayPal sent /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey


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## AilSnail (Feb 12, 2004)

Wow sway!

That looks like a worthwhile upgrade for sure.


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## Sway (Feb 12, 2004)

Thanks Wilkey!!!!

I still have something’s to work out the such as rotating the light engine so the shadow of the return wire will be at the top, it really shows up more in the pic’s than what you actually see. I just need to find the right project box to house the ballast and igniter to be done with it. 

Later
Sway


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## Sway (Feb 12, 2004)

Ail,

It's a monster compared to what I’m use to, you just have to give it a little time to warm up for full out put and I’m not sure that I did that in the 150 yard shot at the church now that I look back as the color is a little off.

Later
Sway


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## cheesehead (Feb 12, 2004)

Hey, excellent work. Also, good point about the return wire, I didn't even notice it at first, but it makes sense to have the bulb flipped the other way. Does that make a difference in how the bulb works or lasts? Seems some sites say it does, but it seems to make more sense that it doesn't.

Looks like a keeper! FANTASTIC!

cheese


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## Sway (Feb 12, 2004)

Thanks Cheese!!!

I need to do more research on the orientation of the return wire right now I don’t know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Shovel stuck in the yard duct tape pic, Humm ShovelPod? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif





Later 
Sway


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## AilSnail (Feb 12, 2004)

Holy ballast. what a beamshot.

[ail succumbs]


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## jtice (Feb 12, 2004)

muuuuuuhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I feel the power surging through me just looking at that monster!!!!!

EXCELLENT WORK KELLY !!!!

This is truely inspirational.

The ol NELCO is gonna have to meet Mr HID /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


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## jetweed (Feb 12, 2004)

All I can say is;

I'm batman.


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## Nerd (Feb 13, 2004)

Looks like this thing can throw for tens of miles... fantastic work dood! Now pop a 100 watt HID into this light! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## flash.... (Feb 13, 2004)

If I may ask... How much $$ and where specifically did you get all of the parts to build this AWESOME beast??? (I want one) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Sway (Feb 13, 2004)

Flash,

Ballast and igniter Model EB035/50G01 175.00
Osram D2S Light Engine came from ebay $39.00
LightForce dealer page SL240 Blitz $129.00
Total $343.00 not including postage on the items. A X990 is $549.00 around $200.00 differnece depending what kind of deal you get. 

These prices are retail work your best deal plus you get the fun of pulling you hair out trying to find the best configuration and thats *FREE!*


I'm going to try another confuguration soon as I don't like the way it looks but with this light anything is going to look tacked on you just have to live with it. I will post some pic's when it's done.
Later
Sway


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## AilSnail (Feb 13, 2004)

can you maintain the seals too?


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## Sway (Feb 13, 2004)

Ail,

Well yes and no the light is not water tight from the start, where the power cord comes in at the bottom of the handle is a weak point. The seals where the reflector screws onto the handle are not affected as I have the light apart right now here is a pic of what the lamp looks like installed in the handle.






Hope this helps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Later
Sway


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## AlexGT (Feb 14, 2004)

That thing rocks! Congratulations! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Will you be making these mods for sale?

Alex


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## flash.... (Feb 14, 2004)

Sway... 
That rocks... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif I need to pinch a $ here and there, but your information will help me in my quest to now top my 990!! for a price that won't kill me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/xyxgun.gif

Thanks again! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## Nerd (Feb 14, 2004)

Sway Sway... here I come to clear up the pics again! Your lights are always so bright they always throw off the camera's exposure balance.






Yeah, that's a light sabre reaching for the heavens, and Sway placed his light on a shovel stuck in the ground. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*edit* dang.. image station is not working...

*edit* Now it's on ticey's server /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## paulr (Feb 14, 2004)

Holy moly...


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## NightStorm (Feb 14, 2004)

Sway,

Nasa called and they want you to stop annoying the astronauts on the International Space Station. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Me likey!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Dan


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## Zelandeth (Feb 14, 2004)

One word: Impressive!

Hmm...only $250 out of my budget...drat.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif


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## AilSnail (Feb 14, 2004)

sway, I didn't inspect my ML240 too closely yet. Are you saying that where the power cord enters the light is the weak point in the sealing system? Then would it help to put a dab or two of sikaflex or something there? 

It looks like the oring on the tube-shaped part is a bit loose on mine. I will see if I can find a tighter one. It is probably ok though. I don't intend to swim with it but it stays on a fishing vessel...

Incidentally the through-roof remote control doesn't look too shabby after all. I am not sure yet whether it can stay in any vertical position or if it will return to neutral. Need a *big* drill bit (2" or so) to pierce the roof.

It is already a mightily impressive light. Do you like the colour of the auto hid compared to the incan?


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## Sway (Feb 14, 2004)

Ail,

I think the light is water resistant being if anything did get inside it wound drain out from the bottom of the handle? If you keep the o rings lubed spray and rain shouldn’t get inside as you only have 3 entry points on the light the switch which has a rubber boot, handle bottom and where the reflector screws on. It's a very sound design but doesn’t lend it’s self to being modded very easy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Later
Sway


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## Sway (Feb 14, 2004)

Well here is a look at the beast, Version 6.357 

This is the configuration I settled on as it still retains its ability to be powered from a vehicle or portable power source and have control over the 50W boost function (red rocker switch at the back of the light). I not very happy with the RatShack project box as they are not very durable but I can replace it in the future with something better I just need to do a little looking around.












Later
Sway


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## Jarhead (Feb 14, 2004)

Man, thats just beautiful!


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## richpalm (Feb 15, 2004)

Daaaayyyyyiiim!! Looks like a Nuremburg Party Rally from NS Germany 1938. 

Of course, if you ever get tired of this thing, PM me first! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif

Rich


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## AlexGT (Feb 15, 2004)

Take a look at the tree that is being illuminated with just the sidespill, that thing really rocks, Hey Sway are you gonna sell that mod or what? Stop teasing us and put a price tag on it! 

I WANT ONE!!!!!

Alex


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## Sway (Feb 15, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*AlexGT said:*
Take a look at the tree that is being illuminated with just the sidespill, that thing really rocks, Hey Sway are you gonna sell that mod or what? Stop teasing us and put a price tag on it! 

I WANT ONE!!!!!

Alex 

[/ QUOTE ]

Alex it's possible if I you could front me some money for a hair transplant, I don’t have enough left to pull out to build another. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif 

OK maybe in the future if I ever get the bugs out of this one and pile up some test hours to see how dependable it going to be.

Later
Sway


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## Ginseng (Feb 15, 2004)

Kelly,

That turned out to be a really nice piece of work. it looks like nothing else and performs like mad. Well done.

Wilkey


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## Sway (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks Wilkey!

I'm still tinkering with it now that I have decided to stay with this configuration. I can clean up my wiring harness and make it more compact and durable as there are 8 wires of various size with bulky connectors running from the project box up through the handle. 

I got 30 minutes run time on 50W boost last night before it shut down from the jump starter which was not at full charge, nothing got hot and it ran perfect. I’m not sure what my new neighbors thought of the shaft of light coming from my garage but it was pretty with the snow falling. My 7.5 amp SLA from batteryStation was dropped off by the brown truck today /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I’m topping it off now and making a lighter plug adaptor for it in preparation for a 35W run tonight.

Later
Sway


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## Sway (Feb 16, 2004)

35W Run

Well the light shut down at 1 hour and 5 min's on the new SLA, I was hoping for just a little more. The starting V was 12.85 and shut down at 10.57, it's back on the charger now and I will see what will happens tomorrow night. Maybe it’s time for Wilkey to whip me up a HiTech battery pack /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif

Later
Sway


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## AilSnail (Feb 16, 2004)

very good work!


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## cheesehead (Feb 16, 2004)

65 minutes, how can you need more than that? Where on one dark night would you need more run time than that (well, maybe with your hours /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif - er,...and sometimes mine). Hmm, the Thor has a 7 amp 12 v and I was hoping for more than that, when it gets its guts ripped out and re-done the way it was meant to be (with a 35 w HID). Hmm, you have to do it again, please /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif 12 volts and 7.5 amps need to fire it for at least 2 hours, otherwise I'll have to re-think this whole HID thing. BTW, the mod looks very nice and smooth, I don't know where you can improve it, just great, really nice work.

cheese


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## Sway (Feb 16, 2004)

Cheese,

Thanks for the complements as it has been a journey trying to get everything crammed into the light and keep it close to its original form but that’s where the fun comes in! I do like the project box on the bottom at least it will now stand up when you set it down. 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I was looking for 90 minutes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif but it's a new cell and there must be a lot of resistance in my wiring harness due to the many connectors that I used putting it together so I could change back and forth that need’s to be remove and solder in and that should help.

Later
Sway


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## Ginseng (Feb 17, 2004)

Sway,
I think the cell will only get better after a few cycles. You'd be hard pressed to get much more than a few Ah of nimh cells in that small of a project box. 65 min is kick-***. This is really thrilling work.
Wilkey


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## larryk (Feb 17, 2004)

Sway, would it be possible to use a larger project box and use 10 4.5 amp mimh C cells ? That way you would have a self contained light. Larry.


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## Ginseng (Feb 17, 2004)

Excellent idea, larry.

Wilkey


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## Sway (Feb 17, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*larryk said:*
Sway, would it be possible to use a larger project box and use 10 4.5 amp mimh C cells ? That way you would have a self contained light. Larry. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes that could be done easily, a little weight at the bottom could be a good thing it’s nose heavy right now, I originally had the project box turned to the back to help balance it but it wouldn’t set up and it looked kind of silly. Wonder what kind of run time 10 4.5 amp mimh C cells would provide I think it pulls around 6.8 A at start up and around 3 A after.

Later
Sway


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## larryk (Feb 18, 2004)

I have a modified light using the same components your using. I went with 12, 4 amp C cells giving it 14.4 volts. I did a run test for the first time today at the 35 watt setting and got 70 min. before it shut down. Larry.


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## Sway (Feb 18, 2004)

WOW Larry 70 min's! That is impressive, I guess 12 C cells would be about 1/2 the size and weight of the SLA I'm using. I know thay don't come cheep but I must look into these as the higher voltage gives you a little more head room /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Later
Sway


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## jtice (Feb 19, 2004)

Nice, 70 ,minutes is a good bit of time for something that bright.

What kinda strain are you putting on the batts?
Do you think they are working TOO hard, and may not charge very many times?


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## cheesehead (Feb 19, 2004)

I don't think 35 watts will strain an SLA, but on the other hand with a regulated HID, you may not get the same feedback (i.e. light turns yellow) that you would with a halogen bulb, so the HID may drive the SLA further into the ground than you may like (10.57 volts is pretty low for an SLA). 12 volts is basically discharged (when measured at rest). SLA can be recharged thousands of times, if you only partially discharge them each time. Seems like Sway is already looking into the NiMH which would be lighter and longer running. Hmm, what about Lithium ion, just kidding.


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## Sway (Feb 19, 2004)

Cheese,

You’re a mind reader, I pulled the trigger on a dozen NiHM's today /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I did another 35W run last night and only got 55 mins from the SLA I think my 2A charger is just throwing a quick surface charge on it and cutting of so I'm trying a trickle charger right now and it's up to 13.15V the highest it has read since it received it. I never though charging a SLA could be tricky 


I check the draw last night after it had been running for about 15 mins with a DMM, 35W = 3.63A and 50W boost = 5.13A so Larry’s results with the NiHM’s is right on. 

Guess I will try my hand at soldering tabs sometime next week? The possibility of a 1 hour 1.5 pound battery pack opens up a lot of possibilities /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Later 
Sway


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## cheesehead (Feb 20, 2004)

Sway, 

Don't worry about 13.15 volts (if the charger is connected, then it should be much higher), the safe float level for SLA's is about 13.7 (even with the couple of DMM I have they all seem to agree within .1, so 13.6-13.9 is good). Car batteries float at about 13.7, so that's when I cut out the charger on my Thors (the 2 new babies, although one likes to float a little higher). 13.7 at room temperature or even a bit below is a safe charge/float for SLA's. So, keep charging! I have faith in your SLA (7 amp) to go at least 2 hours running a 35 watt load. The Thor with a 7 amp and 100 watt load is supposed to do 45 minutes easily (and does 35 without a problem).

Er, soldering is a pain, a lot of RC batteries are all soldered together and sold as a relatively cheap pack so the easiest solution would be to put 2 (or even 3) of them together as a pack. Three may be too much as, IIRC, most HIDs are 19 volts tops, so 3 would be 21 volts (but after loading them, I'm sure it would be less, NiMH are no SLA's!). 

SLA's are very simple. At room temperature they are "dead" at 12 volts and basically fully charged at around 13 volts, so actually they are much easier to deal with than NiMH or NiCD.

Hey, I'm 2 steps away, messing around with an HID and one of the "donor" Thors (still having to decide which one to sacrifice). Very nice updates, thanks.

cheese


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## Sway (Mar 16, 2004)

Hi Gang!


The whole package light, 70 min battery pack and carrying case weighed in at 5 Lbs and 10 Oz on the post office scale today /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif such a light weight.

later
Sway


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## jtice (Mar 16, 2004)

Ah very nice Sway.
This mean you fixed your little "blowout" problem? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have to make one of these soon, thats wild.


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## Sway (Mar 16, 2004)

Hi Ticey,

Yep it's up and running perfect, I got the battery pack put together and it will fit inside a small camera pouch that has a shoulder strap and a belt loop on the back.

I'm getting very consistent 70 min runs at 35W and 55 min on 50W from the 4/3 NiMH A cells, I'm charging them with a 12V 500mH wall wart. This is a much better set up than toting around the big SLA in the video camera bag only down side is the charging time is around 9 hours.

Later
Sway


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## jtice (Mar 16, 2004)

Wow, nice Sway.

That sounds like a great combo.
70 minutes for THAT isnt bad at all. ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Maybe you can find a better charger later to get that charge time down. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Glad to hear it all worked out.


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## Ginseng (Mar 16, 2004)

Geez,
That's superb. Just don't point it at any jets overhead lest you get a call from the civil air authorities. Are you running 10 or 11 4/3A cells?
Wilkey


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## was_jlh (Mar 16, 2004)

Nice work, Sway, I wondered what that glow in the sky was.


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## Sway (Mar 16, 2004)

Wilkey,

I’m using 12 4/3 A cells in 2 7.2V packs with Radio Shack RC pack connectors. The charging connector is wired so the packs will be in parallel and they balance each other out very nicely with consistent 8.50V hot charges. 

The coiled cord on the light has the connectors wired in series both packs together hot off charging read between 17.40 and 17.50V which drops into the 16V operating range of the light rather quick after your turn it on.

The only problem I have encountered is the wall wart runs very hot during the process so I wouldn’t feel safe leaving it unattended, baby sitting is required. The cells do not warm up and feel to stay at room temp. The wall wart was lying around so it was a cheep dirty fix till can find an affordable charger that will handle the 4000mH packs. 


was jlh,

I will point it your way next time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I need to work on the vertical beam shot thingy, thats the first time I have tried that and it shows. Next time I will throw a bubble level on the light and use the level on the tri-pod. 

Refrencing where to start and stop was not to difficult after I got the lazer level out and cut the beam up into 3 chunks.

Later
Sway


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## Sway (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: LightForce SL240 HID Conversion *DELETED**

Post deleted by Sway


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## SilverFox (Mar 17, 2004)

Holy mackeral Batman,
someone is shooting LIGHT beams at us.

Don't worry Robin,
his batteries will die quickly.

Quick, let's duck in around the house...


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## Nitro (Mar 31, 2004)

Ok, I have an 8" aluminum reflector in a Colemann spotlight. Can I convert it to a "High Intensity Discharge"?


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## Draco_Americanus (Mar 31, 2004)

I have a quick question. I am kind of new to world of moding spotlights but have played around a little bit with them. I am plaining on a mod like the sl240. I was wondering are there any easer to find spot lights that produce similar results when retrofited with a D2S bulb? 
thanks


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## Sway (Mar 31, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Draco_Americanus said:*
I have a quick question. I am kind of new to world of moding spotlights but have played around a little bit with them. I am plaining on a mod like the sl240. I was wondering are there any easer to find spot lights that produce similar results when retrofited with a D2S bulb? 
thanks 

[/ QUOTE ]

Hum /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif I really don't know the Blitz is the only one I have made so far and it’s not the easiest host to work with. The larger lantern style lights look like they will make a good host with room inside for the electronics and batteries.

Later
Sway


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## K-T (Apr 3, 2004)

Sway,

would it be possible to post a picture of the inside modifications of the light and the modification of the socket?
Do you know if the standard battery pack which plugs into the handle of the SL140 and 170 also fits the 240 light? On the webpage it says that it isn't compatible, I guess they just don't want people to use the 2Ah battery with the 100W bulb.

Klaus.


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## Sway (Apr 3, 2004)

Klaus,

The next time I have the light apart I will make some pictures. Very little is done the Blitz, one hole in the back of the handle for the hi/low switch and the hole in the bottom of the handle has to be enlarged so all the wires can pass up from the project box.

Later
Sway


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## K-T (Apr 3, 2004)

Do you know anything about the standard battery pack that fits the two smaller lights - does thatone fit (not work) the 240, too?

Klaus.


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## Sway (Apr 3, 2004)

Klaus, I'm not sure about the using the small drill type battery back on the SL240 there are no contacts on the inside of the handle for them. Mine came with blank or dummy plug in the bottom of the handle that is easily removed by pressing in the red tabs on each side and sliding it out like removing the battery from a cordless drill.

Later
Sway


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## K-T (Apr 5, 2004)

How does the boost function work when the ballast pumps out 50W to the 35W bulb?


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## Sway (Apr 5, 2004)

Humm, I really don't know how it works other than upping the voltage? The ballast has 3 wires on the battery side for input one for ground (black) the 35 watt wire is (red) and the boost wire 50W is (orange) to turn the boost on all you have to do is add it into the circuit with the red wire. You can wire it several different ways, splicing the red and orange wire together will give you 50W all the time or put a switch on the orange wire like I did to remove it from the circuit for longer run time. 50W is a little brighter but not night and day difference it’s already a very bright light especially with the 9 ½ reflector you can focus it down to a small beam still with good side spill.



If you are thinking about this mod it’s a tuff axe to grind I have had 2 big problems with mine so far the first one is the ballast does not like to share a common ground with a LED so don’t try it the ballast will fry *(LED illuminated rocker switch for 50W boost)*. 



The second thing my light is down right now and I’m trying to figure out what went wrong this time, I think or hope it’s the D2S that gave up the ghost after all the battery runs I have put it through driving it into the ground at over 25 hours of 35 and 50W test runs * do not let these lights flicker out it kills the ballast and lamp * 



If I can ever get this light like I want it I will make Turn Key mods available as it’s the next best thing going to a $1700.00 MAXABeam.

Later
Sway


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## Alpha_Access (Apr 6, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*K-T said:*
Do you know anything about the standard battery pack that fits the two smaller lights - does thatone fit (not work) the 240, too?

Klaus. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Klaus,

Are you talking about the battery pack that fits into the base of the hand grip on the light? If you are, then you're referring to the LightForce 'Enforcer' lights and not the LightForce hand held spotlights that Sway used in his HID conversion. The Enforcer lights can use either the battery pack or a power cord with a cigarette light plug on the end of it. The hand held spotlights (SL140, SL170, SL240) can only use the cigarette power cords. This is of course unless someone modifies them.

So basically the battery pack that fits into the base of the Enforcer lights does not work with the HID conversion that Sway has done. Even if it did, the project box that Sway has mounted on the base of his light would prevent the battery pack from being inserted into the handle. I'm not at all knocking Sway's design, he's done a very good job with it.

What could be done with Sway's modified light is that a 12 volt battery in a pouch with a shoulder strap (available from LightForce) could be used to provide power using a power cord. The light would then be a little lighter to hold up with one hand and it would probably run for several hours on one battery charge.

I hope this answered your question and/or clarified things for you. Let me know if you have any more questions about LightForce lights (I'm a LightForce dealer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif)


BTW: Nice picture that you posted there Sway!!


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## K-T (Apr 6, 2004)

Thanks for the info, the battery pack configuration was just a general question, due to the ballast one can indeed not use it. I do have a specific question for you though: do you know what degree the reflector has (trying to figure out what can be done in terms of hotspot).

Sway, regarding your bulb flicker problem, would it be helpful to build a small battery protection circuit that watches the battery voltage and disconnects the whole thing when battery power is too low? Could this maybe protect the ballast and bulb? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif I know from the LC100 that driving the bulb with weak batteries is not recomended and will result in short bulb life time.

Klaus.


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## Draco_Americanus (Apr 6, 2004)

Thats odd that the bulb died so early. normaly you should get a few thousand hours from sutch a bulb. If boosting it shortens the life that mutch there is allmost no use for the boost function then. I have yet to monitor the current draw from my kenrad ballast yet but from what I see the build quality is lesser then hella's ballasts. They may be poorly regulated and that would shorten the bulb life. I have found that these types of lights need a lot of inrush current to get things warmed up. You may have a voltage drop along the main power cable if the gage of the wire is too thin or it's too long and that in it's self will cause the strobing. A weak battery will do that as well or a battery that can't delever the needed inrush of at lest 10 amps for a few seconds. I have found that my Hella ballast needs 10-15 seconds for the current draw to stabalize.
When your bulb failed, did it just not wish to ignite or did it explode ? Also too some ballasts will shut down if the bulb fails to ignite and need to be removed from power to reset. 
I should have my SL240 in the next few days and if I don't mod it atlest I will have a nice normal spot light.


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## Alpha_Access (Apr 6, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*K-T said:*
Thanks for the info, the battery pack configuration was just a general question, due to the ballast one can indeed not use it. I do have a specific question for you though: do you know what degree the reflector has (trying to figure out what can be done in terms of hotspot).

Sway, regarding your bulb flicker problem, would it be helpful to build a small battery protection circuit that watches the battery voltage and disconnects the whole thing when battery power is too low? Could this maybe protect the ballast and bulb? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif I know from the LC100 that driving the bulb with weak batteries is not recomended and will result in short bulb life time.

Klaus. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Klaus,

I just spoke with someone at LightForce and all they could tell me was that the beam angle is 4 degrees. I hope that's what you were wanting to know.

Sincerely,


----------



## K-T (Apr 6, 2004)

Yes, thanks alot - that's what I wanted to know. Hunting for small beam angles /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Sway (Apr 6, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Draco_Americanus said:*
Thats odd that the bulb died so early. normaly you should get a few thousand hours from sutch a bulb. If boosting it shortens the life that mutch there is allmost no use for the boost function then. I have yet to monitor the current draw from my kenrad ballast yet but from what I see the build quality is lesser then hella's ballasts. They may be poorly regulated and that would shorten the bulb life. I have found that these types of lights need a lot of inrush current to get things warmed up. You may have a voltage drop along the main power cable if the gage of the wire is too thin or it's too long and that in it's self will cause the strobing. A weak battery will do that as well or a battery that can't delever the needed inrush of at lest 10 amps for a few seconds. I have found that my Hella ballast needs 10-15 seconds for the current draw to stabalize.
When your bulb failed, did it just not wish to ignite or did it explode ? Also too some ballasts will shut down if the bulb fails to ignite and need to be removed from power to reset. 
I should have my SL240 in the next few days and if I don't mod it atlest I will have a nice normal spot light. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it would be odd for the D2S to fail at around 25 hours but this one has had a rough life with what I have put it through /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif I don't think it was due to low voltage as the battery had a fresh charge. 

I think you will be very happy with the Blitz /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Yes they cost more than department store spotlights and you have to supply the power source but if you are looking for throw there is nothing better and I have tried them all. From what I have read as far as throw not total Lum the halogen Blitz will lay a /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whoopin.gif on the 35W HID lights because of it larger reflector and the ability to focus it, just wish I could get my hands on one to try out…


Oh well I have another D2S on the way I will find out next week if that's what the problem is.

The NELCO has been called back into action for home defense, thinking of putting the 20000 Lum bird cooker back in it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Later
Sway


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 6, 2004)

Hehe,

Go Sway!

Wilkey


----------



## NikolaTesla (Apr 6, 2004)

More Volts, More Amps
Watts= Volts x Amps!

HID's don't like to flicker at all. You are pulsing the high voltage start circuit then. Discontinue operation and charge battery RIGHT NOW! (Or invest in some expensive D2S bulbs)

NikolaTesla /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


An Arc lamp is the Spark that takes away the Dark--HID Forever!
My Lights: *** http://www.tjtech.org/gallery/NikolaTesla/Nikola_lights2_001


----------



## Sway (Apr 6, 2004)

Hi Ya Wilkey!

Nice little jewel you found in the IR coated center axial Osram /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Yes at this point I'm a hot wire guy again just wish I could do a little more with the 20000 Lum Osram SuperPhot Light Engine /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

One shot of the bird cooker in action for prosperity guess we should call it a Sphotgun /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Box Stock 100W Halogen Blitz around 75 Yds? to the target.






650W 20000 Lum Sphotgun Bird Cooker /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif





Later
Sway


----------



## Draco_Americanus (Apr 7, 2004)

I have my blitz lightforce! I got it yesterday. You where not kidding when you warned Me about the pain of retrofitting it. I still feel that I am up to the challange even though it will need to be a weekend project rather then a after work project. I too also have spare D2S bulbs on the way just in case I have a oppsie with the one spare that I have. Since I have 4 other operational D2S hid systems in use in my jeep and quad it's good to have spares anyway.
I wish you luck in fixing your light.


----------



## K-T (Apr 7, 2004)

Sway, I remember that picture but don't find the thread discussing it anymore- mind pointing me in the right direction? Is the 240 still the host?

Nicolay, could you describe somewhat more what you mean by "pulsing the high voltage start circuit"?

Klaus.


----------



## Draco_Americanus (Apr 7, 2004)

I could take a stab at that question about pulsing the start circuit. When you have a weak battery and then try to start a HID from that the ballast sends it's voltage to the starter and the starter generates a multi killovolt pulse to establish the arc, then the ballast overdrives the bulb to allow it to warm up faster, it then lowers the power to a steady state of 35 watts, It will do this every time at power up or if the power is interupted. Now if you have a weak battery the arc will start and when the ballast tries to warm up the bulb it demands more current. If the battery can not delever the current the forward voltge drops to the point the arc goes out, The since the current draw is then lessened the voltage goes back up and the system agen trys to start the bulb. it can do this many times a second causeing a pulsing or strobing. The thing that is hard on the starter and bulb is the starting current impulse is rather high and can cause componet failer if allowed to continue. If the arc is never established the ballast can detect that and shut down, it's too bad they are not designed to shut down if they pulsate.
I have read that starting a HID bulb = the same wear as operating it for 20 minutes.


----------



## K-T (Apr 7, 2004)

Thanks for the explanation, sounds like that's what Nicolay meant. So the only way to prevent this from happening is to always have fully charged batteries or batteries with high mAh ratings to prevent larger voltage drops and to be able to provide the needed currents?

Klaus.


----------



## Sway (Apr 7, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*K-T said:*
Sway, I remember that picture but don't find the thread discussing it anymore- mind pointing me in the right direction? Is the 240 still the host?

Klaus. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Klaus,

Those pic's are from this thread when I was trying to make a a super bright spot light using the $7.99 NELCO spot light as a host unfortunately all the pic's form that thread will no longer link. It's super bright but not much of a thrower due the projector bulb having such a large filament, live and learn.

Later
Sway


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 7, 2004)

Sway,

Ahhh, that does bring back warm memories. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif You're doing exceptional work on this project. I hope that when you've got it ready, I'll be able to pick one up.

Wilkey


----------



## Sway (Apr 8, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
Sway,

Ahhh, that does bring back warm memories. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif You're doing exceptional work on this project. I hope that when you've got it ready, I'll be able to pick one up.

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

Wilkey,

Unfortunately I’m almost back at square one if the new LE fix’s the problem then I will have to start run time test again not on battery packs but on the light it’s self. Guess it’s time to invest in a bench top power supply so I can let it run hours at a time instead of trying to two test back to back when I have time with the NiMH and SLA batteries. 

I have had a little interest in TK mods and I should be able to get the price down to an affordable point by buying the main components in multiples but I’m a long way off from that now with this set back I need at least 100 hrs of trouble free performance before I would even consider it. 

The ballast has a low voltage cut off circuit built in but it allows it to flicker several times before shutting down so I need some type inexpensive low voltage indicator that will turn on at around 11v to let you know it’s time for a recharge especially for dummies like me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif 

Later
Sway


----------



## Draco_Americanus (Apr 8, 2004)

I have a few quick questions. I was agen looking at what will needed to be done to the D2S and it's socket to make it fit in to the SL240's handle. It looks like I am going to need to extend the wires from the socket to the starter. Did you use connecters ? or did you just solder the extention wires inplace? My next question is about the socket it's self. When you needed to grind down around the socket how far did you go? does the D2S still lock into the socket?
I am wondering how your bulb failed as well? did it explode or does it just fail to ignite?
Thanks


----------



## Sway (Apr 8, 2004)

Draco,

The the lamp and socket have to be hand fitted into the handle take your time and test fit frequently. Yes the wires from the ignitor need to be extended *do not use connectors /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whoopin.gif * again take your time and test frequently. 

Later
Sway


----------



## naromtap (Apr 9, 2004)

I need one!!! Class! Sway knows the way!


----------



## Sway (Apr 9, 2004)

Well the new D2S arrived today but that didn't fix the problem it still will not ignite /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif Must be something deeper and more sinister at work here.

Later
Sway


----------



## Nitro (Apr 9, 2004)

That bites. Now you have me worried.


----------



## cheesehead (Apr 9, 2004)

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like you'll have to go back to square one, PITA, to sort it all out. Keep us posted.

cheese


----------



## larryk (Apr 9, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Sway said:*
Well the new D2S arrived today but that didn't fix the problem it still will not ignite /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif Must be something deeper and more sinister at work here.

Sway, check if you have any voltage comming out of the Ballast. Mine went bad. If it were me, I would go with something other than the KenRad setup. I know it's nice to have the option of a 50 watt boost, but they just don't seem to hold up. If it is your Ballast you would be the thrid person (that I know of) to have one fail in short order. Larry.


----------



## Sway (Apr 9, 2004)

Larry,

The light strobes or flashes rapidly several times a second but will not light as I'm a little new to HID's what is the best way to check the ballast any suggestions

Later
Sway


----------



## larryk (Apr 10, 2004)

I'm not up on the exact workings of them either. My light did the same thing so I let it flicker for about 30 seconds to see if it would ignite and it went out completely. Best to give Mark at KenRad a call and talk with him. It should still be under warranty. Larry.


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 10, 2004)

Hello Draco Americanus,

I believe you have correctly stated the wear and tear on the lamp when trying to start a cold lamp on weak batteries.

My question has to do with the end of the cycle. The lamp is already hot, but the batteries are no longer able to sustain the arc. The lamp flickers several times before going out. 

I am under the impression that this flickering at the end of the battery run time is not detrimental to lamp life. Is this correct?

Tom


----------



## Draco_Americanus (Apr 10, 2004)

I would not let the lamp flicker or stobe at all as it may very well be harmfull to the whole system not just with the bulb. I am thinking of making a low voltage cut off and make that to disable the system. I don't exatly know how to do that at this time but I know it's possible. 
I have my lamp finshed and I can make it strobe as well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif It did not do it during my first tests and I know why. I tested with a cold bulb. A cold bulb will start easier and with a lower voltage then a hot bulb. When We extened the wires from the starter We must be introducing a voltage drop or loss across the extra wire length. The ballast outputs an AC signal at a rather high freaquancy and that type of signal hates long wires.


----------



## Nitro (Apr 10, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Draco_Americanus said:*
I would not let the lamp flicker or stobe at all as it may very well be harmfull to the whole system not just with the bulb. I am thinking of making a low voltage cut off and make that to disable the system. I don't exatly know how to do that at this time but I know it's possible. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm working on this very issue. It can be done with a relay circuit that cuts off when the voltage drops below a certain level. They're used in large machinery so when the power fails or flickers the machines don't go on and off. I'm looking into a solid state solution however.


----------



## Alpha_Access (Apr 10, 2004)

Draco,

What did you do exactly to extend your wires? Splicing? Soldering? Crimps?

I'm just wondering if maybe that's where the problem lies?

I've got a KenRad ballast/ignitor and D2S lamp on their way so that I can do this conversion myself. Just trying to learn as much as I can before I attempt it.


----------



## Draco_Americanus (Apr 10, 2004)

I soldered the wires and keept the joint as short as possible. Useing connectors is a no no.


----------



## Sway (Apr 10, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Draco_Americanus said:*
I would not let the lamp flicker or stobe at all as it may very well be harmfull to the whole system not just with the bulb. I am thinking of making a low voltage cut off and make that to disable the system. I don't exatly know how to do that at this time but I know it's possible. 
I have my lamp finshed and I can make it strobe as well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif It did not do it during my first tests and I know why. I tested with a cold bulb. A cold bulb will start easier and with a lower voltage then a hot bulb. When We extened the wires from the starter We must be introducing a voltage drop or loss across the extra wire length. The ballast outputs an AC signal at a rather high freaquancy and that type of signal hates long wires. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Draco,

That is a little odd but may be not, the first ballast gave up the ghost all at once after I added the LED circuit to with no strobing it's demise may have just been coincidence. The second has also run many hours before it started strobing and I never experienced any problems with hot striking.

[ QUOTE ]
Draco,

What did you do exactly to extend your wires? Splicing? Soldering? Crimps?

I'm just wondering if maybe that's where the problem lies?

I've got a KenRad ballast/ignitor and D2S lamp on their way so that I can do this conversion myself. Just trying to learn as much as I can before I attempt it. 



[/ QUOTE ] 

Rory,

I'm going to take the extensions out of my light soon and see if it will ignite if so then like Draco said the voltage drop must be taxing the ballast and will sent it to an early grave.

Then there is plan (B) To mount the igniter separate from the ballast it’s just not as slick looking as having every thing in one box.

Later
Sway


----------



## Alpha_Access (Apr 11, 2004)

Sway,

I've been thinking that on Monday morning I'd call Marc at KenRad and see if they could install longer wires for me on my ballast before they ship it. 

Do you have an idea of how much longer they should be so that I won't have to extend them myself and therefore avoid having any joints?

Thanks,


----------



## illumiGeek (Apr 11, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*

I am under the impression that this flickering at the end of the battery run time is not detrimental to lamp life. Is this correct?

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not believe that is correct. I am not familiar with the Osram lamp used here, but the tech specs for Welch Allyn Solarc HID lamps say that there is both a maximum, _and minimum_ safe power level for the Solarc. Running the lamp higher or lower than those specs can damage the lamp (WA calls it a "non-recoverable failure" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif ).

For the Solarc 10 watter, the optimal power is 10W, at that rating the lamp has a median (average) life of 1000 hours. Increase the power by 10% (11W) and lamp life is _*reduced by 50%*_ (kinda makes you wonder about that boost circuit in the Kenrad ballast, eh?)!

Running the lamp at lower wattage will _increase_ lamp life as long as the power does not go below 8W.

"IMPORTANT! It is not recommended to run the lamp above 11 Watts or below 8 Watts for an extended period."

The above is a direct quote from the Solarc spec sheet.

It's pretty safe to assume that if the power level is low enough for the lamp to flicker, then you are below the safe lower limit (probably significantly so).

Now as I said, I know nothing of the Osram lamp, so it may be an entirely different story. But I'll bet there are similar warnings in the Osram specs as well. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Aloha, iG


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 11, 2004)

Hello Drako and IllumiGeek,

Thanks.

I am aware and have read the specifications. The reason I was asking was that the 990 listed as a "feature" that it strobed indicating a nearly depleted battery. 

I just checked the instruction book and the package and there is no mention of this, at all. I must have read it in a web description. My reasoning was that if the manufacture was listing it as a feature, it may not harm the lamp. Since it is not listed, I will close my mouth now...

I have also noticed that my DragonHID 8 cell will dim down, flicker, then go out. Since it uses a Solarc lamp, I will not be running it all the way down any more.

I find it interesting that a hot strike is harder than a cold strike. I would think that if everything is hot it would be easier to strike the arc. Thanks for shedding some light on this.

Tom


----------



## Alpha_Access (Apr 11, 2004)

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not believe that is correct. I am not familiar with the Osram lamp used here, but the tech specs for Welch Allyn Solarc HID lamps say that there is both a maximum, _and minimum_ safe power level for the Solarc. Running the lamp higher or lower than those specs can damage the lamp (WA calls it a "non-recoverable failure" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif ).

For the Solarc 10 watter, the optimal power is 10W, at that rating the lamp has a median (average) life of 1000 hours. Increase the power by 10% (11W) and lamp life is _*reduced by 50%*_ (kinda makes you wonder about that boost circuit in the Kenrad ballast, eh?)!

Running the lamp at lower wattage will _increase_ lamp life as long as the power does not go below 8W.

"IMPORTANT! It is not recommended to run the lamp above 11 Watts or below 8 Watts for an extended period."

The above is a direct quote from the Solarc spec sheet.

It's pretty safe to assume that if the power level is low enough for the lamp to flicker, then you are below the safe lower limit (probably significantly so).

Now as I said, I know nothing of the Osram lamp, so it may be an entirely different story. But I'll bet there are similar warnings in the Osram specs as well. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Aloha, iG 

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom,

I asked Marc at KenRad the other day when I was ordering my ballast/ignitor and D2S lamp about using the 50W boost feature and he said that the D2S bulb that he was sending me is actually rated upto 70 watts, so it's just fine to use the 50 watt boost feature. I can't recall exactly which D2S lamp he sales (OSRAM?) though.


----------



## cmacclel (Apr 20, 2004)

Those Kenrad ballasts seem horrible I built a few custom lights Larry got one of them and another member got thge second one. Larry's ballast went after around 10 hours of use and the other light went through 2 ballasts within a few months. I have a brand new setup here and am debating on wether just to sell it new and pick up a 35 watt OEM that will last forever. The funning thing is when you call Kenrad they state they have sold thousands with no faulures. I bought 2 and they both failed and one there repacements failed again! Whats up with that!!!


Mac


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## Draco_Americanus (Apr 21, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*cmacclel said:*
Those Kenrad ballasts seem horrible I built a few custom lights Larry got one of them and another member got thge second one. Larry's ballast went after around 10 hours of use and the other light went through 2 ballasts within a few months. I have a brand new setup here and am debating on wether just to sell it new and pick up a 35 watt OEM that will last forever. The funning thing is when you call Kenrad they state they have sold thousands with no faulures. I bought 2 and they both failed and one there repacements failed again! Whats up with that!!!
Mac 

[/ QUOTE ]

Quick question, did you cut the wireing at all? did you run the ballasts on there intended voltages and never let the voltage drop till it shut off ? are you trying to start the bulbs with the boost function turned on ? 
We have got to be doing something wrong and causeing damage to these ballasts because I find it hard to belive that if any manufacture made sutch crap ballasts that they would soon go out of operation. 
Knock on simulated wood, my light is still operational(when started cold) but it still has less then a few hours on it. Before I do a long run test I whant to monitor the current draw first.


----------



## LEDagent (Apr 21, 2004)

I don't know much about HID light systems. I don't know there voltage requirements and limitations, but my best guess is that they would be pretty sensitive to drops in voltage because of the way the ballast sparks the bulb. 

I would also take a (educated) guess and say that it is a voltage problem because the bulb isn't the one to go bad, which is usually the case when overdrving or underpowering a standard bulb.

These ballasts...if they are similar to the ones used in automotive applications, then volatage drops would be stressfull because they are designed to recieve a pretty constant ~14 volts from a car alternator. It sounds like someone needs to design a voltage boost circuit to keep the power more constant to the ballast.

What puzzles me however, is that the X990 doesn't use a voltage booster (that i know of) and niether do other HID light systems. So maybe the Kenrad ballasts are of poor quality, or the power requirements are strict. 

I REALLY like the LightForce HID conversion. In the future, when i can afford an HID light system, i'm not going to buy one, i'm going to make one. That large reflector is a perfect match!

P.S. Hey...did you guys see LightFOrce's website? They have a new automotive unit that already has the ballast and bulb coupled with a large 240 reflector. All one would need is a portable power source. If the price is right on the HID version, then it might be worth getting onbe instead of drilling into our own products.


----------



## JimH (Apr 22, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*LEDagent said:*

P.S. Hey...did you guys see LightFOrce's website? They have a new automotive unit that already has the ballast and bulb coupled with a large 240 reflector. All one would need is a portable power source. If the price is right on the HID version, then it might be worth getting onbe instead of drilling into our own products. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had a question, but I wanted to make sure it had not already been answered somewhere on CPF. I searched high and low, and the closest thing I found was this thread. I've just finished reading the thread from the beginning, and, low and behold, LEDagent has just asked my question. 

So now I can just sit back and listen, while those of you who are pioneering this ground come up with flaws in my, and LEDagent's, thinking /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif. Glad I made it to the end of this thread before giving up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. To all of you pioneers, especially Sway, keep up the good work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif.


----------



## LEDagent (Apr 25, 2004)

Well, i did dome searching for the Lightforce HID Blitz 240 and found out that it is REALLY expensive...well for me anyway.

The Lightforce HID Blitz is an automotive spotlight which requires a 12V source and mounted on the vehicle. However with the right powersource and custimized mounting hanlde, you can have a nice HID light(s). The unit has a 35 watt HID bulb and the ignitor ballast is concealed in the housing, so all you need is one wire to be hooked up to a power source. It also has the adjustable 9.5" reflector which can change the beam from spot to flood by twisting the front of the light. Very cool!

What isn't cool is the price. The HID driving lights usually come in a pair and cost ~1100-1700 USD. If you can find a single unit, it would cost about 700-800 dollars. If you want to make your own powersource...it can be expensive, especially if you want NiMH batteries.

So far the mod that Sway made with his existing Lightforce 240 is cheapest of all handheld HID lights in it's class that i've seen.

Are there any other alternatives to the Lightforce 240? I want to know if there are any other spotlights with large (~9inch or more) reflectors out there.


----------



## Echo63 (Apr 29, 2004)

ailsnail - that remote arm doesnt self centre 
it does have a variable tension control so you can point it and tighten it to lock it up


----------



## cheesehead (Apr 29, 2004)

LED, 

The Thor light at about $49-69 can have an automotive HID (ebay about 50 bucks) stuffed into or on it. The reflector is large and well made, about 8-9 inches and the battery with it is big, so it runs a long time. Overall, it's not quite as good as the Blitz, but probably close. Also, with the auto HIDs, you don't get the 50 watt boost feature as with the Kenrad, which also makes is a bit brighter. But for about a $100 bucks, it can't be beat.

cheese


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## Sway (Aug 11, 2004)

Hi Gang,

Sorry I have been away from this thread so long but I really got frustrated with ballast failures and warm weather came along with outside chores so the HID Blitz Project got thrown in a box and pushed aside.

I’m still not sure what caused the failures but these are my thoughts. 

#1. The Ballast.
It was housed in a very small plastic project box along with the igniter with no heat sink and very little ventilation and it was cold outside when I started this project back in February night time temps were in the 20’s. The light ran 20 plus hours doing battery test before it failed the first time with blown ballast. As night time temperatures warmed up so did the ballast failures /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

#2 The Igniter.
For the * 30K High Voltage Wires* to make the stretch from the project box up through handle to the D2S lamp socket they had to be cut into and extended which added resistance to the circuit now I know this is not a good thing to do. 

#3
So what went wrong with this mod?
No heat sink for the ballast when they are used in their proper application it is mounted to a metal frame to draw away the heat instead of roasting at 50W in a plastic project box.

#4
Buy cutting into the *High voltage wires* this added more resistance to the circuit meaning more heat and resistance for it to over come = POOF! 

Last but not least it is up and running again and very happily in a Monstie Mod sort of way with the ballast and igniter mounted to an aluminum frame attached to the top and bottom of the light which I think looks rather mean /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

½ Mile Plus a little this time for good measure /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif






Thanks to Draco_Americanus and his insight on this project /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif 

Later
Sway


----------



## StEaLtH_ (Aug 11, 2004)

Man, that beam just looks so cool /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## Nitro (Aug 11, 2004)

Sway,

You must have read my mind. I was just going to ask you if you figured anything out with the ballast's blowing.

Can you give us a picture of the ballast and ignitor mounted on the light?

Also, I'm going to buy a ballast and ignitor right now. Do you have a good source? I called SUVLights, but they said they didn't have 35/50W Dual Voltage Ballasts. Funny because it's on their website.

Thanks


----------



## Sway (Aug 11, 2004)

Nitro,

I will try and make a pic of the light later tonight after work, it dosen't look like much as everything was just thrown together as a test mule /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif But it's working out OK and runs nice and cool now that the ballast can breath and has a heat sink.

Ballast Hummm /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif PM sent

Later
Kelly


----------



## Nitro (Aug 11, 2004)

Sway,

Are you saying it's not a good idea to lengthen the High Voltage wire, because it increases the resistance?

Did you replace the whole wire, or did you add a splice?


----------



## Sway (Aug 11, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Nitro said:*
Sway,

Are you saying it's not a good idea to lengthen the High Voltage wire, because it increases the resistance?

Did you replace the whole wire, or did you add a splice? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Nitro,

I originally added a splice into the high voltage wires which I know now is a no no on this brand I don't think the others fair to well either as they push anywhere from 20 to 30K volts anything in its path is not good for it including you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif

Later
Sway


----------



## Nitro (Aug 11, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Sway said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*Nitro said:*
Sway,

Are you saying it's not a good idea to lengthen the High Voltage wire, because it increases the resistance?

Did you replace the whole wire, or did you add a splice? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Nitro,

I originally added a splice into the high voltage wires which I know now is a no no on this brand I don't think the others fair to well either as they push anywhere from 20 to 30K volts anything in its path is not good for it including you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif

Later
Sway 

[/ QUOTE ]

Sway,

Is there a way to replace the whole wire?


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## Sway (Sep 6, 2004)

I made some new beam shots tonight to try out my light tri-pod it works pretty good just line every thing up put the camera in the auto picture mode and stand back and grab a cold one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy23.gif

I'm not real sure about the distance on these beam shots of the radar tower/white golf ball thingy except it's out there may be 1500 yds plus a little /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 





From another angle different focus





Well it ain't no MaxaBEAM but what is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Later
Sway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/str.gif


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## jtice (Sep 6, 2004)

Awesome shots as ussual Sway. !! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Thank the lords of light, that I will have a X990 on the way soon, to tide me over. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gonna have to make a 50W HID mod some time though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## naromtap (Sep 6, 2004)

Nice, very nice Sway!


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## kongfuchicken (Sep 6, 2004)

Holy!
Looks like some kind of deathray... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/aaa.gif


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## Crosman451 (Sep 6, 2004)

That beams so tight you could walk on it!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kewlpics.gif


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## Sway (Sep 7, 2004)

Thanks guys I had been waiting for the farmers to harvest this field so I could try a long range shot only other option would be set up in the road or in my neighbors front yard at 1AM I’m not to sure they would be happy about that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif There is one tree that obscures the target a little to the lower left I may just have to set up a CPF road block some night and try for a mile just to see if it will make it, now where to find a laser range finder /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif Crosman451 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleye11.gif

ticey getting a 990 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Fairmont will never be the same I must call the local news paper and let them know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/aaa.gif

Later 
Sway


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## MaxaBaker (Jan 31, 2005)

Hey Sway,

are turnkeys going to be available soon? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I would love to do this mod but it just seems like to much.


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## IsaacHayes (Jan 31, 2005)

Ever get a picure of the new ballast mounted?


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## Sway (Jan 31, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*IsaacHayes said:*
Ever get a picure of the new ballast mounted? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Isaac,

Sorry I don't have any pic's at this moment as it's on an extended West Coast vacation right now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif

It's just a simple piece of flat stock aluminum bent into a square shape attached to the top and bottom of the light that allows for easy changes, I have ran out of ideas at this point KenRad has a new version of the 35/50 ballast due out sometime this year so I’m waiting to see what happens with them along with the possibility of a higher output ballast from another source but that’s just vapor ware right now.

Later
Kelly


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## NewBie (Aug 27, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Alpha_Access said:*

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not believe that is correct. I am not familiar with the Osram lamp used here, but the tech specs for Welch Allyn Solarc HID lamps say that there is both a maximum, _and minimum_ safe power level for the Solarc. Running the lamp higher or lower than those specs can damage the lamp (WA calls it a "non-recoverable failure" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif ).

For the Solarc 10 watter, the optimal power is 10W, at that rating the lamp has a median (average) life of 1000 hours. Increase the power by 10% (11W) and lamp life is _*reduced by 50%*_ (kinda makes you wonder about that boost circuit in the Kenrad ballast, eh?)!

Running the lamp at lower wattage will _increase_ lamp life as long as the power does not go below 8W.

"IMPORTANT! It is not recommended to run the lamp above 11 Watts or below 8 Watts for an extended period."

The above is a direct quote from the Solarc spec sheet.

It's pretty safe to assume that if the power level is low enough for the lamp to flicker, then you are below the safe lower limit (probably significantly so).

Now as I said, I know nothing of the Osram lamp, so it may be an entirely different story. But I'll bet there are similar warnings in the Osram specs as well. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Aloha, iG 

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom,

I asked Marc at KenRad the other day when I was ordering my ballast/ignitor and D2S lamp about using the 50W boost feature and he said that the D2S bulb that he was sending me is actually rated upto 70 watts, so it's just fine to use the 50 watt boost feature. I can't recall exactly which D2S lamp he sales (OSRAM?) though. 

[/ QUOTE ]

OSRAM D2S 
http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/osramh~1.pdf

GE D2S
http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/ged2sh~1.pdf

Philips D2S
http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/philip~1.pdf


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## markdi (Aug 27, 2005)

I heard - some where - long ago - in a land far away
that 35 watt d2s bulbs will handle 70 watts - who knows for how long - probably a lifetime for most spotlight users.

makes me wonder what my 50 watt rated phillips dl50 would handle ?

it is a Physically bigger bulb than a 35 watt bulb

maybe 100 watts ?


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## That_Guy (Aug 29, 2005)

I've wondered the same thing myself. If the dl50 could handle 100w it would be fantastic. It would make over 10000 lumens - equal to the 250w Osram HLX 64655 used in the Ken 4 and a few other superlights. It would make superlights of that calibre much more practical with runtimes of over 1 hour easily achievable with a small lantern-style host.

While I doubt that the dl50 could handle 100w I've sent an email to Marc at AE Light to see if he knows.


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## That_Guy (Aug 29, 2005)

I got a reply from Marc. He said that it may be possible to operate the lamp above 70w, but forced air cooling would be necessary. He wants to know what I'm trying to do and says that he may have a solution.

If it requires forced air cooling it sounds like more trouble than it's worth. I've sent him another email to see if there's any other options.


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## larryk (Aug 29, 2005)

Caterpillar uses a 70 watt hid light for there mining equipment, but it's 24 volt. 

http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=37679&x=7


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## highlander (Sep 27, 2005)

Just wanted to know if anybody has thought about using a high powered bulb in the lightforce sl240 such as a 100 or 150 watt hid? One could use a g12 hid bulb. Thought about using a 12 volt 200 watt inveter to get around the 12v car ballast problem as they only seem to go up to 35watts max. By using a inveter one could use a normal electronic hid ballast. So getting hold of a fishtank ballast would be easy. So the procedure would be 12 v battery, inverter, ballast then 150 watt bulb. Any suggestions on the theory?


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## bushy555 (Oct 19, 2005)

Hi,

Have made up 1mm steel mount that will fit inside the 30mm inside diameter of the LF240 Blitz, LF170 and LF140 spot lights 
that are bought for vehicle use. The mount replaces the original LF H2 bulb mount, and currently my design will only
accept the H3 HID bulb. Not the D2S bulb that Sway used.
Only problem I have is that since the LF vehicle lens mount is totally different to that of the portable hand held mount, there
is a need to drill a dirty big hole in the back which then makes it not waterproof anymore. Sure, can fill it with silicon / selastic, but it isn't an ideal solution.

Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this? I'd use the existing two holes that the original H2 bulb wires used, but the waterproof 
connectors on the H3 HID bulb dont come off - and certainly dont wanna cut the high voltage wires.

If your reading this sway, am interested to know if that particular bulb fitted nice and snuggly?



cheers,
dave.


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## Orbit (Nov 4, 2005)

I've done a similar mod to a SL170, which had success until it was rolled over by a tractor. I had reasonable run time and excelent light for my purposes, however i used a 35w from lightforce's 240mm driving light that i had spare, i also fitted the "snokle" kit to disapate heat. i don't have any photo's at the moment however i will be attempting to remake it in the new year.

ORB


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## bushy555 (Nov 7, 2005)

Cheers for that.

I tried posting a piccy of the 35w jobbies (off ebay) that I placed into 240 Blitz's but it didn't come up for some reason. 
Have just bought a 50 watt HID kit (H3 Bulb), and will mount these into another set of Lightforce 240 Blitzs that I have. I'm hoping to get the same output as in Sway's photo of his conversion... but have two of them mounted on the front of my ute. I'll eventually be able to take piccies of it, and then can compare the output of the original 100 watt halogen H2 bulbs, 35 watt H3 HID bulbs and 50 watt H3 HID bulbs all in the same light housing. Hopefully it'll look good.

cheers,
dave.


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## Sway (Nov 8, 2005)

Guys wish I could help but I’m not familiar with the parts your are using, it all comes down to filing, cutting or turning the socket and lamp base down to a size that will fit in the tube part of the body. The standard automotive D2S lamp needs the widest part trimmed down (the outer ring), it’s even with the bottom of the glass envelope where it meets the base of the lamp.

This needs to be done so it will recess into the tube for proper focal alignment, the H3 lamp has a shorter focal length so I really don’t know what you will need to do too get it to line up.

Keep up the good work and I’m looking forward to some beam shots :thumbsup:

Later
Kelly


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## Orbit (Nov 8, 2005)

Sway. i used the factory(osram ect) stuff from light force for one of my ugrades, basically slotted stright in.

will attempt to get some beam shots tonight or over the (aussie) weekend.


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## Orbit (Nov 13, 2005)

here's a sneak peak, bet you can't guess the source


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## That_Guy (Nov 13, 2005)

A high wattage Osram incandescent bulb? It's easy to do because the higher wattage bulbs plug right in. I tried a 400w, 16000 lumen Osram 64663 in my Blitz (aka Ken 5) which was pretty bright, but it started to melt the reflector after only 4 mins so it doesn't really get any use. 

Also, what's this talk of the Lightforces lights using H2 sockets? I thought they all used G 6.35 sockets.


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## Orbit (Nov 13, 2005)

That_Guy said:


> A high wattage Osram incandescent bulb? It's easy to do because the higher wattage bulbs plug right in. I tried a 400w, 16000 lumen Osram 64663 in my Blitz (aka Ken 5) which was pretty bright, but it started to melt the reflector after only 4 mins so it doesn't really get any use.
> 
> Also, what's this talk of the Lightforces lights using H2 sockets? I thought they all used G 6.35 sockets.


 
close, but no cigar.
Osram is on the ball though.


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## That_Guy (Nov 13, 2005)

Humm... you have me baffled. :thinking: If it's not incan then it must be HID because that's all that’s left. The simplest answer I guess would be your standard 35w D2S automotive HID bulb, but you've already done that and your implying that this is something "special" so it must be something else.

From the picture it looks like a low colour temp which is why I said incandescent. 35w D2S automotive bulbs also have a low colour temp which would fit with your picture, but I've already ruled that. Most HIDs have a high colour temp, but there is one model which has a yellowish colour temp: the Osram powerball/powerstar shoplight family of HIDs. So by a process of elimination it must be a HID from that family. This fits because they are a low colour temp, are low wattage, and because they also use the Gx.x socket and use pins. You mentioned that the bulb "basically slotted straight in". The only problem is that the smallest bulb uses the G8.5 socket, not the G6.35 socket used in the Lightforce.

If I am right then congratulations: you are the first person on CPF to successfully use a "big" HID in a light, every CPF superlight fanatic's dream! :bow: If I'm not right then I have no idea what bulb your using :shrug:, and I've also got my hopes up about someone finally using a "big" HID.


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## Orbit (Nov 13, 2005)

the game is up.
but yes i do have a big HID that sucessfully works, the HID reflector from light force has a removable ring, which when removed widens the hole considerably. (think it is on the XGT also), so you just fabricate a new ring and the globe drops straight in. the camera didn't show up what i'd hoped, but you get the idea, from both pics.


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## Sway (Nov 13, 2005)

oo: OH MY! Me likey 

More Pic's! More Pic's! More Pic's!


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## That_Guy (Nov 13, 2005)

Wow! :bow: That is a lot of HIDs! Very impressive! :twothumbs

So you are using 6 x Osram HCI Powerball shoplight 70w TC lamps? How are you powering them? Are you using 6 x 70w Osram Powertronic ballasts powered off a big inverter, or are you operating them off 12v ballasts? How long do they take to warm up?

Any plans to mount a 1kw xenon short-arc tank searchlight to the top of you car? :naughty:

And when you said "on the ball" before, was that a subtle hint towards the Powerball family of lamps?


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## Orbit (Nov 13, 2005)

The pic is of 6 35watt focused and adjusted to give the beam pattern i want for work.

However i have 18 lights total
6 50watt
and 6 70watt powerball
the 70 watt ones will run off an inverter...waiting on inverter...so don't know warm up time yet
the 50's run 12 volt ballasts.
i'm still messing around with overboost circuits and cooling for the 70 watt but and will post pics when i'm done. the 50's are on a mates 4x4 somewhere in the simpson desert atm, but i'll post a report when they get back.

only the 35's will be used on my ute as that is what i've got them for, the rest are just to play with and muck around with on other cars, thats why i chose low temp, as high temp is not as useful as a "driving light"
however the more i mess with the 70's the more i want a high temp bulb...so once i have the cooling and boost circuit done i think i'll mess aroud with that, although it is still some time off.
i'll post some pics that are actually in focus and of decent quality when i get them.

NO plans for a 1kw xenon arc tank light atm...too many weight issues...not enough usefull light....but there are plans for a advertising light mounted in teh back of the ute in the very distant future lol.

ORB.


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## Orbit (Nov 14, 2005)

I had another go at the pictures and at some beam shots (in full dark this time), but my camera just doesn't seem to be able to cope, i though using a tripod would take the blur out of the pics but it didn't. so the best i have for now is this front on shot.
it was taken at about 30m at an anagle of about 45 degrees to the light "bar" with no zoom.


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## bushy555 (Mar 17, 2006)

All,


I've finally caught up with all the posts that I've missed out on. (G'day Orbit - nice pics)

Sway: Read where you used the D2S bulb originally. Understand about the filing etc to get the correct focal point. I've been buggerising around with H3's HID bulbs and have so far managed to convert 8 individual Lightforce 240 Blitz's (which have mounts made for vehicle mounting). Have done six 35 watters and two 50 watters. Got heaps of pics and must post some up sometime.

Have also converted a heap of vehicle driving lights: IPF, Bullights and Rallye 2000's. Got a few comparison shots as well.


cheers
dave.


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## Sway (Mar 17, 2006)

Looking foward to the pics!

Later
Kelly


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## jtice (Mar 17, 2006)

orbit, bushy,

You guys are making some coooool HID upgrades, nice work !!!!!
Do you rally that Subaru? you better with all that fire power.

Would you guys happen to know of any parts I can use, 
to convert my Honda ATV to HID?
It uses a 9145 bulb.

~John


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## Orbit (Mar 17, 2006)

subaru?


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## Orbit (Mar 17, 2006)

i also forgot to say that i'll look into the 9145bulb for you but, bushy is maybe better off with that question as i've only modded LF but he's done other makes. so maybe a PM is in order as i don't know howoften he gets on here.


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## jtice (Mar 17, 2006)

Orbit,

eh sorry, was just looking at your avatar, looks like a Subaru Outback sorta thing...
what IS it?

Any help on the 9145s would be great,
I am still looking around, a direct conversion should would be easier than completely modding it.

~John


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## Orbit (Mar 17, 2006)

ahh....no.....not a subaru


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## Sway (Mar 17, 2006)

Humm....Looks Like a Holden Ute with a with a *Suba-roo* catcher on the front, nice lights also me likey 

Later
Kelly


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## jtice (Mar 17, 2006)

... no not a Subaru,,,
I still dont know what the hell that is though,
But it sure has one hell of a brush guard, cow catcher, baby buster, street sweeping, pather clearing device !!!!!

What DO you do with that thing? 
Little bigger tires and its ready for the Baja 1000.

~John


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## GeoffChan (Mar 17, 2006)

OMG that's a Holden SS Ute


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## Orbit (Mar 18, 2006)

you can't drive where i drive at the times i do without seeing the odd roo....or 2 or 3 or million....you tend to hit a few and at 120kph with no bar.....you end up with no car. so you need all the light and all the help you can get to make sure your not getting a new car every 4weeks....works well for emu's roos, wombats, haven't tested it on a cow yet....and really don't want to...driving at night is where i got first intrested in lights
now i set up rally teams, off road teams and truckies, as a bit of a hobby.
so thats why my biggest intrest is in usable light for driving purposes.


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## Orbit (Mar 20, 2006)

here are a few pics from bushy, there are more coming but here is a start, they are now up for grabs on ebay also.


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## logan (Mar 20, 2006)

Nerd said:


> Sway Sway... here I come to clear up the pics again! Your lights are always so bright they always throw off the camera's exposure balance.



Don't be surprised if an UFO lands one day at home :huh:


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## Orbit (Mar 22, 2006)

some more beam shot comparisons.

The pics taken from my 4 meg digi camera really doesn't do any sort of
justice --- never does.
Need to fix up the way I take pics for comparisons as well. Possibly
four different nights in all of these pics. Two different vehicles
doesn't help much either (Brumby has the IPF's while the patrol ute has
the Blitz)











































can't find my list of what each is...... but i know i've got it somewhere....will post when i find it. but here you guys go.


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## bushy555 (Mar 23, 2006)

bugger! Typed out about two pages of replies and stuff last night, then when I tried to submit it, me 'puter locked up; so failed to post.


Thanks for posting those pics Orbit. BTW, blokes overseas would look at your ute from side on and at a bit of a distance they do look like sube brumbies (Brats in the US) --- since probably never seeing a Ford or commodore ute.

*1 = digi camera setting at '100 film' 
*2 = digi camera setting at '400 film'

top left pic: one light only (5000k 50w bulb in LF 240 blitz.). *1
top right pic: two LF240 blitz's (6000k 35w bulbs). *1
2nd pic down: one 50w blitz - spread. *1
3rd pic down: one 50w blitz - spread. *2
4th pic down: one 50w blitz - spot. *1
5th pic down: one 50w blitz - spot. *2

3 pics side by side: 
left 4x 100w halogen LF240 blitz
centre 2x 100w halogen LF240 blitz with 2x 35w 6000k HID in LF240 blitz's
right: 4x 35w 6000k HID in LF240 blitz's
(like me LEDs in the rear?)

the rest are just pretty.


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## rufusdufus (Apr 2, 2006)

ORBIT.
Where on ebay would I look?


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## Orbit (Apr 3, 2006)

probably best to PM bushy, he's selling them. might even give you a cpf discount. he's making some more up atm too.


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## Orbit (Apr 8, 2006)

f


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## terrafirma (Jun 9, 2009)

Sway said:


> I have been wanting a HID light for sometime but everything was out of my price range so I was stuck on the bench while many other were in the game having fun. While ridding the pine so to say I had time to think and scheme, I already have a LightForce SL240 Blitz one of the longest throwing off the shelf 100W Halogens but the reflector is a metallised polymer so a higher wattage lamp will result in melt down.
> 
> LightForce has an off road vehicle HID system but it's a different animal from the hand held lights and very expensive.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Sway, Great article. Motivated by this but wiithout some necessary technical skills I decided on a HID kit for the Blitz 240 via Ebay which comes with some basic instructions. I have installed it and all works ok, my only question was does it matter which way the steel rod on the globe faces? Left/Right/Up/Down.? 

Kit Details: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HID-KIT-FOR-...ms=65:1|66:2|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

Thks, Terrafirma


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## BVH (Jun 9, 2009)

If you place the return wire on the bottom of the reflector, its shadow will be on the top of the projected beam - etc. etc. Mechanically and electrically, it makes no difference.


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## perungestal (Oct 16, 2009)

I decided to make one as Sway did as well.
What components are needed except a CL240 and does someone have links where I can buy the items?


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