# NeoFab Legion II - beamshots & run times



## wbp (Mar 5, 2009)

I have been doing some preliminary testing of NeoFab's new Legion II flashlight. This is not intended to be a full review.

The Legion II uses an MC-E LED, is powered by 3 18650 cells, and uses a new very efficient driver circuit. It is a fairly large flashlight, about 180 mm long and 53mm in diameter at the head. It weighs about 1.2 pounds with 3 18650 cells installed.







The light has a unique rotary switch, similar to the one on the Spartanian 2, but much improved. It has 5 preset levels, which I measured at 98, 157, 264, 456, and 742 lumens. The regulation is the best I have ever seen in any flashlight I have tested so far. The run time at level 5 on new AW 18650's is over 2 hours before the light shuts itself down:






The run time on AW IMR 18650's is somewhat shorter:






Lastly, I took the Legion II out to a local sports field for some beamshots. The target trash can (55 gallon drum) is roughly 100 meters away. Camera (Canon XSI) was set to the same fixed exposure and white balance for all 3 shots.






A lot of good engineering has gone into the design of this light. Many lights are overdriven to get high output, causing damage to the LED phosphor and/or damage to the cells. This light, with reasonable cooling, will run for a solid 2 hours putting out over 700 lumens, without any damage to either the LED or the cells. Then you can put 3 fresh cells in it and do it again. I took measurements of the spectra and output of the LED before and after my run time tests - there was no change. 

During the run time tests the light was cooled only by a 100mm PC fan. I took IR temperature readings several times during the test. The highest reading was 84 F (28.8 C) at the LED end of the heatsink.

I like the switch and the choice of output levels. The UI on the test light is a preliminary version which is similar to the Spartanian 2; the final version of the UI has not been revealed yet...

/wbp


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Mar 5, 2009)

Let me be the first to say thank you!

Great job.

Thanks for sharing.


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## nanotech17 (Mar 5, 2009)

:wow:
look at the build quality & look at the beamshot


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 5, 2009)

+1
thanks wbp oh! btw the L2 seems to be the one to carry,if your'e in the woods and spot a bear  great flood but it has throw as well,nothing is going to sneak up on you with the L2 in hand 



[edit] I will also add at that distance the doughnut hole looks non-existent.:twothumbs


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## niner (Mar 5, 2009)

thanks whp for the preview.

BTW, do you have OP or SMO reflector?


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 5, 2009)

niner said:


> thanks whp for the preview.
> 
> BTW, do you have OP or SMO reflector?


IIRC it's with OP reflector.


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## Nake (Mar 5, 2009)

I noticed that there are a few choices for the driver's max output, which one is in the light you tested?


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## neoseikan (Mar 5, 2009)

Nake said:


> I noticed that there are a few choices for the driver's max output, which one is in the light you tested?



It's 2.9A.
BTW, higher current aren't recommended, I can not make sure when they will damage the LED.


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## steed77 (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks for the beamshots. This was exactly what I was looking for. 

Can't wait till mine makes it here. :twothumbs


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## Winx (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks for pictures. Seems well spent $300. Actually almost the same in euros after VAT and customs duties.


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## neoseikan (Mar 5, 2009)

Winx said:


> Thanks for pictures. Seems well spent $300. Actually almost the same in euros after VAT and customs duties.



Really? I know if you buy in a local store, it will. But direct sending from me will cause so many fees?


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## UlrikJ (Mar 5, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> Really? I know if you buy in a local store, it will. But direct sending from me will cause so many fees?



Here in Denmark you have to pay 25 % danish tax if the item comes outside Europe. And if the item cost more than ~185 USD/150 Euro then you must pay customs duty which I dont know the precise value of (electronic category). 


So if the Legion II cost 300 USD then if will cost 300 USD + ~20 % customs duty + 25 % tax (after customs duty) = 450 USD.


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## HKJ (Mar 5, 2009)

UlrikJ said:


> Here in Denmark you have to pay 25 % danish tax if the item comes outside Europe. And if the item cost more than ~185 USD/150 Euro then you must pay customs duty which I dont know the precise value of (electronic category).
> 
> 
> So if the Legion II cost 300 USD then if will cost 300 USD + ~20 % customs duty + 25 % tax (after customs duty) = 450 USD.



That is not correct.

Anything above $13 means we have to pay a handling fee ($25) and 25% VAT, when above the other limit (Might be $185, I have not checked), we also have to pay toll (For the full amount), this is usual in the 4% to 9% range for flashlights (Customs does not always put them in the same category).
The customs office does often open the package and looks for any receipts inside and uses that amount instead of the declare amount on the outside (At one time that saved my some money, the sender had declared to high value on the outside).


This means that we will have to pay about $130 in taxes when collecting the light at the post office.

But it looks like the L2 will be worth all the money .


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## wbp (Mar 5, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> the L2 seems to be the one to carry,if your'e in the woods and spot a bear  great flood but it has throw as well,nothing is going to sneak up on you with the L2 in hand



If all else fails, you can use the other "throw" option...


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## AardvarkSagus (Mar 5, 2009)

wbp said:


> the final version of the UI has not been revealed yet...
> 
> /wbp


Nor has it been completely determined .


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## 9x23 (Mar 5, 2009)

wbp,

Thanks for the advanced look at the light. Certainly functionality is an important quality of a successful product but this light just looks plain sexy! Embarrassingly I will admit that the look is what got my attention first, but when I saw the specs and considered the whole package that is what sold me. How about posting some more eye candy such as photos of the tailcap and head off of the body? Is that tailcap really a chunk of stainless? I am looking forward to EDC'ing that 1.2 lbs light for a few weeks just to get familiar with it! 

9x23


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## Firehawk1227 (Mar 5, 2009)

Can't wait to get mine! After Legion II and Eagletac's new nanolight, I hope I won't buy anymore


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## I came to the light... (Mar 5, 2009)

Very nice, thank you for even more data. Any chance of a comparison with the ACE?


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## Crenshaw (Mar 5, 2009)

wow thats 700 lumens of good flood!

although i think it still goes to show you just cant beat single die emittors for throw..

Crenshaw


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## sledhead (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks for your time wbp! Can't stop looking at that regulation graph. Fantastic! Really looking forward to mine.


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## AardvarkSagus (Mar 5, 2009)

Crenshaw said:


> wow thats 700 lumens of good flood!
> 
> although i think it still goes to show you just cant beat single die emittors for throw..
> 
> Crenshaw


You may not be able to beat a single die for how tight the beam is, but I am guessing this torch still puts more light on target at distance. Just also illuminates everything else along with it. 

I guess I will see soon enough.


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## richardcpf (Mar 5, 2009)

Can we have some comparison shots of the L2 vs other P7 or MC-E lights? think it is not fair to compare it with the A10 or any other single die led light.

Would like to see a size comparison too. :twothumbs Nice runtime chart


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## wbp (Mar 6, 2009)

richardcpf said:


> Can we have some comparison shots of the L2 vs other P7 or MC-E lights? think it is not fair to compare it with the A10 or any other single die led light.



The only other MC-E light I have is the MC-E pill for the DBS V2. I will try to post a beam shot of that if I can, but believe me, it doesn't come close.

I have to use what I have.


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## wbp (Mar 6, 2009)

Stay tuned - I am doing a run time test at Level 1 now. I had to write a new program to do it, it's too much data for the program provided by the folks that make the instrument I'm using. It will be interesting to see how long it goes!.


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 6, 2009)

AardvarkSagus said:


> Nor has it been completely determined .


Oh! I thought it had::thinking:
5 Exponential Levels.
Quick Access to Any 2 Default Levels.
Is there more to the UI to come? :shrug:


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## toby_pra (Mar 6, 2009)

Very nice review...

I like the finish of the Legion II! :thumbsup:

Is it possible to become some closer shots of the Legion II?


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 6, 2009)

toby_pra said:


> Very nice review...
> 
> I like the finish of the Legion II! :thumbsup:
> 
> Is it possible to become some closer shots of the Legion II?


Hi toby_pra meantime you can see some nice close up here


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## toby_pra (Mar 6, 2009)

many Thx


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## AardvarkSagus (Mar 6, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> Oh! I thought it had::thinking:
> 5 Exponential Levels.
> Quick Access to Any 2 Default Levels.
> Is there more to the UI to come? :shrug:


Neo has mentioned that he is thinking about tweaking the UI to make it a little more user friendly than it already is. I don't know where this will end up, but no functionality will be lost. The basic specifications are still the same. 5 levels, quick access to two of them, just some other minor tweaks.


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 6, 2009)

AardvarkSagus said:


> Neo has mentioned that he is thinking about tweaking the UI to make it a little more user friendly than it already is. I don't know where this will end up, but no functionality will be lost. The basic specifications are still the same. 5 levels, quick access to two of them, just some other minor tweaks.


Ah got ya now! :thumbsup:


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## Ryanrpm (Mar 6, 2009)

AardvarkSagus said:


> Neo has mentioned that he is thinking about tweaking the UI to make it a little more user friendly than it already is. I don't know where this will end up, but no functionality will be lost. The basic specifications are still the same. 5 levels, quick access to two of them, just some other minor tweaks.



I imagine that after these 'tweaks' it will be able to be sold to the public? Do we know when that will be?


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 6, 2009)

Ryanrpm said:


> I imagine that after these 'tweaks' it will be able to be sold to the public? Do we know when that will be?


Ryan there is already a pre-order sales going on at the market place,the limited edition being the first to go out to buyers shortly.The standard edition will go out in a couple of months. That's what I read from Neoseikans first post at the market place :twothumbs


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## wbp (Mar 6, 2009)

12.5 hours and still going strong...

Anyone for a pool on when it quits?


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 6, 2009)

i'll play 26 hours


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## neoseikan (Mar 6, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> i'll play 26 hours



I'd like to bid two value. LOL.
23 or 28.


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 6, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> I'd like to bid two value. LOL.
> 23 or 28.


 
That's cheating and besides manufacturers are barred from participating,especially when they have built the light:laughing:





[edit]Neoseiakn now! my keyboard has coffee spilt over it RAFLMAO


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## cheetokhan (Mar 6, 2009)

wbp, can you give us a few more beamshots? 
I like this light's design, but the beamshots posted in Neoseikan's sales thread show a really nasty black hole in the center of the beam. How noticeable is that dark spot with the OP reflector?


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## MrGman (Mar 6, 2009)

richardcpf said:


> Can we have some comparison shots of the L2 vs other P7 or MC-E lights? think it is not fair to compare it with the A10 or any other single die led light.
> 
> Would like to see a size comparison too. :twothumbs Nice runtime chart


 

I would like to help compare it to the Malkoff Triple Drop and the Solarforce L900M 2X18650 P7, lights that I have some time when it dries out. I would also like to bring my color targets (they have red and brown in them) to help provide more perspective to the images for comparison sake. Just need some time and dry weather.


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## wbp (Mar 6, 2009)

OK, here's a set of shots taken in a parking lot. Unfortunately they were taken on different dates, so two have clouds lighting up the background and one does not. The tree is approximately 350 feet away line of sight. All exposures were the same time, f-stop, and ISO. All lights on their highest output level. The Legion II has the new slightly OP reflector. As you can see, there is still a small "hole" but it's a LOT less than with the smooth reflector.








Here's the locatiion:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=37.36244,-122.132381&spn=0.000909,0.00165&t=h&z=20


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## wbp (Mar 6, 2009)

The Level 1 run time test shut down at 20 hours, 30 minutes. When I measured the voltages on the 3 cells, 2 were at 3.6 and one was at 1.7 Volts. Looks like I have a defective cell...


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## erlebo (Mar 6, 2009)

wbp said:


> The Level 1 run time test shut down at 20 hours, 30 minutes. When I measured the voltages on the 3 cells, 2 were at 3.6 and one was at 1.7 Volts. Looks like I have a defective cell...


 
Will you test level 5 again with another cell to see if the previous result was correct?


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## guiri (Mar 6, 2009)

wbp, does that mean you'll redo the test?

I'm really interested in seeing the runtimes on the second level since it gives you close to full power but should give a good bit more runtime, right?

Thanks

George


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## cheetokhan (Mar 6, 2009)

wbp said:


> The Legion II has the new slightly OP reflector. As you can see, there is still a small "hole" but it's a LOT less than with the smooth reflector.



That's kinda disappointing. I have a really cheap P7 light from DX with a smallish reflector, about 40mm or so in diameter, and it has a nearly flawless beam- no hole whatsoever. It's nowhere near as nice as this light, but still, you would think a light as expensive as this could have a better reflector.
Oh well, maybe the upcoming Eagletac Nano Megalight will be better.


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## AardvarkSagus (Mar 6, 2009)

You also have to look at the size of the beam. With a smaller reflector, does it produce a rather wide beam? I haven't tried the OP reflector yet, but the SMO is very focused, albeit with a large hole in the center:





150 ft. from the wall. Pardon the crappy beamshot. My camera doesn't like the dark.


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## cheetokhan (Mar 6, 2009)

AardvarkSagus said:


> You also have to look at the size of the beam. With a smaller reflector, does it produce a rather wide beam? I haven't tried the OP reflector yet, but the SMO is very focused, albeit with a large hole in the center



My cheapo DX P7 has a pretty wide spill beam with a smooth, gradual blend from the hotspot to the fill. It does not have a defined border between the hotspot and the spill like the beam in your picture has. But it also does not have the dark hole in the center.


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## wbp (Mar 7, 2009)

There is a BIG difference with the OP reflector. Neoseikan already posted pictures showing the donut with the smooth reflector, so that's not news.

cheetokhan: Is this the DX P7 you are referring to?
http://www.dealextreme.com/feedbacks/BrowseReviews.dx/sku.14741

I had one and it had a dark spot in the center of the beam. It was also less than half the output of a Legion 2. They're very different flashlights.


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## cheetokhan (Mar 7, 2009)

wbp said:


> cheetokhan: Is this the DX P7 you are referring to?
> http://www.dealextreme.com/feedbacks/BrowseReviews.dx/sku.14741
> 
> I had one and it had a dark spot in the center of the beam. It was also less than half the output of a Legion 2. They're very different flashlights.



I have DX part 19113. I agree that it is nowhere near the quality of the Legion 2. I'm just surprised that the Legion 2 doesn't have as nice a beam. 
I really want to buy a Legion 2. I love everything about the design, except for the beam it produces. I'd much prefer a beam like the DX light with a wider spill and a smooth hotspot.


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 7, 2009)

cheetokhan said:


> I have DX part 19113. I agree that it is nowhere near the quality of the Legion 2. I'm just surprised that the Legion 2 doesn't have as nice a beam.
> I really want to buy a Legion 2. I love everything about the design, except for the beam it produces. I'd much prefer a beam like the DX light with a wider spill and a smooth hotspot.


If it's just down to the reflector could you not just swap it,just a thought :thumbsup:


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## cheetokhan (Mar 7, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> If it's just down to the reflector could you not just swap it,just a thought :thumbsup:



Well, I've learned to expect to have to mod cheap lights form DX, but not $200 or $300 custom made lights.


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## neoseikan (Mar 7, 2009)

cheetokhan said:


> Well, I've learned to expect to have to mod cheap lights form DX, but not $200 or $300 custom made lights.



There is always a tradeoff.
Throw V.S. Flood.
For example, If I produce a MC-E mule light, it will have a beautiful beam, without any donut hole. But if you want to find some kind of throw, for example, like Jetbeam M1X, you will find a more noticeable dark area than Legion II.
M1X has a wider head than Legion II, and Legion II has a waider head than DX P7, that's why Legion II and M1X can not do the same thing as DX P7.
And DX P7 can not show it's dark area in a long distance because you can hardly notice the whole beam.
So, the question is: Why Legion II has a different beam, but not Why Legion II has a worse beam.
We have both OP and Smooth reflectors, Titan means you can try OP reflector in Legion II. You don't need to modify it by yourself.
I hope you can like Legion II, because it is different.

You can heard noise at some levels from other lights, but will never find it in Legion II.


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## AardvarkSagus (Mar 7, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> You can heard noise at some levels from other lights, but will never find it in Legion II.


Very true there. That is one thing that I checked right away. No hint of a whine or noise at all. Totally silent.


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 7, 2009)

Am I missing something!the beam shot at 100m in the first post of the L2 looks awesome to me,I could say the A10 and DBS have dark rings midway but of course that can be a trade off with throw lights.

Also how many of us here can honestly say we need a light that lights up more than 100m,if I'm totally honest I rarely need to light up things over 200ft it seems to me the L2 would be perfect for that. :thumbsup:


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## neoseikan (Mar 7, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> Am I missing something!the beam shot at 100m in the first post of the L2 looks awesome to me,I could say the A10 and DBS have dark rings midway but of course that can be a trade off with throw lights.
> 
> Also how many of us here can honestly say we need a light that lights up more than 100m,if I'm totally honest I rarely need to light up things over 200ft it seems to me the L2 would be perfect for that. :thumbsup:




Thank you Titan.
I'd like to describe my own idea about L2.

1- Searching People.
I don't need to look for strange guy in my yard because I don't have one. But every year, there will be some people get missed in near mountains, and some of my friends will go for searching. I hope to lend them my L2 to help. With the level 5, they can check a possible target carefully, and in most time, they just need to use Level 1 to support a long term walking in the narrow pass.

2- Lighting the room or the car.
Legion II can stand with its tailcap. So that I can use it as a main lightsource in the room when needed. Even in a car, it can use the light tint roof as the reflector to help finding tiny things.

3- Protect myself.
We did a test. With my eyes closed, I feel deeply upset when a L2 towards me from 3 meters away. It will be useful.

For these purpose, I tried to build L2 as the brightest single LED flashlight, and with a good runtime. For example, we tried our best to get the highest efficiency in this level. Look at Jetbeam M1X & Fenix TK40. M1X has 450 lumens, and with 2*18650, I don't think its runtime can be the 2/3 of Legion at level 4. TK40's 8AA has almost the same mWh capacity with Legion II's 3*18650, but its runtime is 1 hours while Legion II has 2 hours at a higher output.
I noticed Jetbeam and Fenix start using a control ring too, copied from Surefire U2. That's not bad, but they can not reach the standard of Legion II.
For those people who like perfect beams, I produced OP reflector. For collectors, I believe, you will find Legion II has the best specs in flashlight world, because we love our products and always do everything we can to make it better.


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## AardvarkSagus (Mar 7, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> 2- Lighting the room or the car.
> Legion II can stand with its tailcap. So that I can use it as a main lightsource in the room when needed. Even in a car, it can use the light tint roof as the reflector to help finding tiny things.



That is so true, this thing is so immensely bright, it is extremely noticeable when you use it during a ceiling bounce. It completely lights up the entire room. It shows its power over other lights more in this arena than any other. I used it to run downstairs and grab a glass of water just before going to bed last night and it was amazing how much it looked like I had just turned the room lights on. Think about it. 742 lumens is getting right up there with the level of light that full fledged plug in light bulbs put out.


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## ZeZo (Mar 22, 2009)

> Originally Posted by *wbp* The Level 1 run time test shut down at 20 hours, 30 minutes. When I measured the voltages on the 3 cells, 2 were at 3.6 and one was at 1.7 Volts. Looks like I have a defective cell...





erlebo said:


> Will you test level 5 again with another cell to see if the previous result was correct?





> Originally Posted by guiri
> wbp, does that mean you'll redo the test?



hi wbp,

is there meanwhile a new test, or do you really know that your 1,7 V cell was defective? 

maybe the 1,7 V cell was unloaded preferentially on same position?

i have to change position of 2x 18650 while using because the first one is always emptier than the last one.

ciao
ZeZo


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## wbp (Mar 22, 2009)

ZeZo,

I did run a new level 5 test. I got 2 hours 15 minutes to shutdown, and all 3 cells measured very close to each other. I have not had time to post anything, sorry. I still plan on doing a level 1 run time test with the new cells.

It can't hurt to rotate the cells but I have no idea why a cell in one particular position should see more load. I also think with a light such as this where there are cells in series that it is probably a good idea to use cells that have the same usage on them.

William


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## MrGman (Mar 23, 2009)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157615785637890/detail/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157615785637890/

This is a collection of beamshots that wbp took and I helped at the football stadium seating. Its about 100 yards out. I added my series of targets. Shots are 4 seconds long at f8, same as for wbp's previous shots, his camera. Some of the pictures look out of focus but its actually just a little bit of camera shake over the 4 second period. The Neoseikan Legion II clearly appears to be the overall brightness winner in this group of the LED lights. The 24 watt HID is really out of the league of all the others. Once again I must say that even with a great digital camera, the range of contrast shown here does not do justice to what we saw with our eyes. 

Let me know if you can see all 37 pictures in the folder by scrolling through it. G.

There are comments with the series explaining them. If you look at the slide show you won't see the titles. If you look at the detail mode view or the individual pictures, you should see the title for each one which has the flashlight make and model.


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## neoseikan (Mar 23, 2009)

Thank you ! MrGman. I can see all of them.
It's quite a interesting experience to see beamshots in such a format.
Really impressing.
I am also glad to see Legion II beat all the others.


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## PsychoBunny (Mar 23, 2009)

Is this available for sale yet?

Looks like I need one!


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 23, 2009)

PsychoBunny said:


> Is this available for sale yet?
> 
> Looks like I need one!


Yes it's been on sale for a month now look here


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## easilyled (Mar 23, 2009)

MrGman said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157615785637890/?photo_deleted=2619348957
> 
> This is a collection of beamshots that wbp took and I helped at the football stadium seating. Its about 100 yards out. I added my series of targets. Shots are 4 seconds long at f8, same as for wbp's previous shots, his camera. Some of the pictures look out of focus but its actually just a little bit of camera shake over the 4 second period. The Neoseikan Legion II clearly appears to be the overall brightness winner in this group of the LED lights. The 24 watt HID is really out of the league of all the others. Once again I must say that even with a great digital camera, the range of contrast shown here does not do justice to what we saw with our eyes.
> 
> Let me know if you can see all 37 pictures in the folder by scrolling through it. G.



Looking at the beamshots, it looks like the Neoseikan Legion II gives the 24W HID light a good run for its money.

Is this a fair conclusion?


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## MrGman (Mar 23, 2009)

easilyled said:


> Looking at the beamshots, it looks like the Neoseikan Legion II gives the 24W HID light a good run for its money.
> 
> Is this a fair conclusion?


 
Not if your trying to sell 24 watt HID torches. :laughing:

the truth is that the images for the 24 watt torch are over exposed and you really don't see the depth of contrast and range of power in this limited setting. Yes the Legion II comes close, but not as close as these photos would show.


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 23, 2009)

Well having owned a 24W HID I see a different story,to me the HID is clearly brighter but I would expect it to be.Also at 100m the HID will be just warming up for the meter race.I get the feeling the MC-E lights are awesome at 100m as expected but as we move further away you really cant beat HID IMO


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## easilyled (Mar 23, 2009)

I can see even from the pictures that the 24W HID throws further.

However its still damn impressive that the Legion II is even getting anywhere near the output of the Boxer.

I would love to see a comparison between the Legion II and the SF M6 HOLA.


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## neoseikan (Mar 23, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> Well having owned a 24W HID I see a different story,to me the HID is clearly brighter but I would expect it to be.Also at 100m the HID will be just warming up for the meter race.I get the feeling the MC-E lights are awesome at 100m as expected but as we move further away you really cant beat HID IMO



I believe that LED lights will get a good future.
We have a lot of new idea about them.


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## PsychoBunny (Mar 23, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> Yes it's been on sale for a month now look here


 
Thanks Titan, I am going to buy one. Just waiting for Neo to reply :thumbsup:

So, that's 3 lights I have bought in only one week!!! 

Yikes!!! I got it bad!! 

I swear, NO MORE LIGHTS!! (for the whole rest of the day!!)


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## MrGman (Mar 24, 2009)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157615785637890/detail/

When you get to the detail page you can click slide show and then you can click "show info" in the top right and see all the titles to the slides as they run which show the name/model of the flashlight. OV is over head position. S is shoulder high position, and W is waist high position.

Hopes this helps. This way you can let it run (slow medium or fast at your choosing in the options button) and see the titles as they images change. 

They were cropped but not modified other than that. Hope this helps. G


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## johns (Mar 24, 2009)

UlrikJ said:


> Here in Denmark you have to pay 25 % danish tax if the item comes outside Europe. And if the item cost more than ~185 USD/150 Euro then you must pay customs duty which I dont know the precise value of (electronic category).
> 
> 
> So if the Legion II cost 300 USD then if will cost 300 USD + ~20 % customs duty + 25 % tax (after customs duty) = 450 USD.


 
Probably another dumb question but here goes -
Can anyone tell me how this works out in the United States - will I also owe a lot in customs fees?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Mar 24, 2009)

johns said:


> Probably another dumb question but here goes -
> Can anyone tell me how this works out in the United States - will I also owe a lot in customs fees?


There's no import taxes in the U.S, you'll only need pay for the flashlight.


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## johns (Mar 24, 2009)

Thanks - I've never had anything shipped here that was over $100 - had me wondering if there was a point where you had to start paying. 
The more I read about the Legion II, the better it looks to me.


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 24, 2009)

johns said:


> Thanks - I've never had anything shipped here that was over $100 - had me wondering if there was a point where you had to start paying.
> The more I read about the Legion II, the better it looks to me.


Well you could try here,but only the Alu is available now! good luck 
BTW pay now to be in with a chance


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## TITAN1833 (Mar 24, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> There's no import taxes in the U.S, you'll only need pay for the flashlight.


really wow! it sucks here :mecry:

[edit] if taxes have been paid ten times we still have to cough up LOL.


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## tidy404 (Mar 25, 2009)

Question for Mrgman

Looking at your comparison photos is there realy such a big difference in output between the Legion II and the Solarforce L900M as the photos suggest??


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## MrGman (Mar 25, 2009)

tidy404 said:


> Question for Mrgman
> 
> Looking at your comparison photos is there realy such a big difference in output between the Legion II and the Solarforce L900M as the photos suggest??


 
Yes. The solarforce unit definitely has a well defined hot spot not just a big floody beam. So it doesn't look as bright in the near grass area because its putting more of what light it has into the hot spot pointed at the targets. The Legion II is lighting up those targets better and still putting more light into the grass. Its just frakking awesome in that respect. That is a lot more total lumens. 

the solarforce is supposedly 900 lumens at the source and I would have thought 700 plus lumens out but after seeing it next to the Legion I would have to say no its not.

Quite frankly I am questioning wbp's lumens readings of the Legion II unit. I think the readings are lower than what the unit really puts out. I think the Legion II may be a real 800 plus lumen output machine and the Solarforce a good 600, with the Malkoff triple drop possibly 700. 

The Legion II is definitely putting it all out there. Having rock solid heatsinking to keep the chip from getting overheated also helps peak lumen output stay high as wbp's runtime tests showed.

This may be really the only class of multi chip LED that can really get the power out and keep it up. Any other multi chip LED trying to run full power (10 watt class or above) without this much heatsink probably just isn't going to cut the mustard so to speak. 

G


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## tidy404 (Mar 25, 2009)

MrGman said:


> Yes. The solarforce unit definitely has a well defined hot spot not just a big floody beam. So it doesn't look as bright in the near grass area because its putting more of what light it has into the hot spot pointed at the targets. The Legion II is lighting up those targets better and still putting more light into the grass. Its just frakking awesome in that respect. That is a lot more total lumens.
> 
> the solarforce is supposedly 900 lumens at the source and I would have thought 700 plus lumens out but after seeing it next to the Legion I would have to say no its not.
> 
> ...


 

Thanks Gman

Was thinking of getting the new Solarforce L950m, didn't think there would be that much of a difference between the two but after seeing your pics i'm seriously considering spending the extra cash and getting the legion II, whats the difference between the cheaper and more expensive L II, do they use the same driver, chip and reflector?? Also how would the Legion II compare to the Fenix TK40?

Thans for the help


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## neoseikan (Mar 25, 2009)

tidy404 said:


> Thanks Gman
> 
> Was thinking of getting the new Solarforce L950m, didn't think there would be that much of a difference between the two but after seeing your pics i'm seriously considering spending the extra cash and getting the legion II, whats the difference between the cheaper and more expensive L II, do they use the same driver, chip and reflector?? Also how would the Legion II compare to the Fenix TK40?
> 
> Thans for the help



Hi. The two version of Legion II share the same driver.
I haven't seen any test data of Fenix TK40. They declare a 630 Lumens output for 2 hours (1 hour in earlier news.)


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## concept0 (Mar 25, 2009)

tidy404 said:


> Thanks Gman
> 
> Was thinking of getting the new Solarforce L950m, didn't think there would be that much of a difference between the two but after seeing your pics i'm seriously considering spending the extra cash and getting the legion II, whats the difference between the cheaper and more expensive L II, do they use the same driver, chip and reflector?? Also how would the Legion II compare to the Fenix TK40?
> 
> Thans for the help


 
The reason I'm so interested in the Legion II is because of the innovative ring control... aren't you tired of tailcap switches???


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## tidy404 (Mar 26, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> Hi. The two version of Legion II share the same driver.
> I haven't seen any test data of Fenix TK40. They declare a 630 Lumens output for 2 hours (1 hour in earlier news.)


 


Hi Neoseikan, so they share the same driver but what about the reflector??
Is there any chance you can post some pictures of the Alu version or does it look exactly the same. So there wont be any differance in performance??


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## neoseikan (Mar 26, 2009)

tidy404 said:


> Hi Neoseikan, so they share the same driver but what about the reflector??
> Is there any chance you can post some pictures of the Alu version or does it look exactly the same. So there wont be any differance in performance??



The reflectors are same too.
No performance difference.

Yours, Neoseikan


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## wbp (Mar 29, 2009)

MrGman said:


> Quite frankly I am questioning wbp's lumens readings of the Legion II unit. I think the readings are lower than what the unit really puts out. I think the Legion II may be a real 800 plus lumen output machine and the Solarforce a good 600, with the Malkoff triple drop possibly 700.



Gman, I was keeping quiet until we had a chance to compare incan sources, but since you brought it up, I'm pretty sure your IS is not producing accurate readings for LED sources, for reasons we've already discussed. :devil:

wbp


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## MrGman (Mar 29, 2009)

This may be true, I am hoping that the LED lights are actually brighter than we have been measuring. That Legion II appears far brighter than the Malkoff triple drop for instance which is supposed to be a solid 730 plus lumens itself. More testing and fine tuning is in order. I think we would both be pleasantly surprised if it really was over 800 lumens. But if it turns out that the legion II is really 740 is range that you posted, and the Malkoff and the Solarforce L900M are down in the 600 lumen range, I can accept that, 

Oh fellow seeker of the truth.


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## neoseikan (Apr 1, 2009)

I wrote something for LEGION II, in our new website:
neo-fab.com/legionII/
Enjoy it!


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 1, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> I wrote something for LEGION II, in our new website:
> neo-fab.com/legionII/
> Enjoy it!


_"
_*Forbidden*

_ You don't have permission to access /legionII/ on this server."_


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## Ryanrpm (Apr 1, 2009)

Just type in www.neo-fab.com in your browser window, and click the word "Legion II"

Worked for me....


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## neoseikan (Apr 1, 2009)

sorry people! A big mistake it is!
It's OK now!


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## neoseikan (Apr 2, 2009)

Then,
How do you think about the info pages?


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## Patriot (Apr 3, 2009)

The Legion II arrived today and I have begun some basic testing. It's slightly smaller and lighter than what I had expected from the pictures. It's almost to the millimeter the same length as my hand from heel to finger tip.

I took some preliminary lux measurements that looked promising with regards to the MC-E as it's a bit better than I had anticipated and that's only with the OP reflector.

I'll be testing with 2600mAh LG's and 2200mAh AW's at both high and low settings.

Tomorrow night I'll be capturing some beamshots and comparing with the M6 since this was the main request that had developed out of a discussion in another thread. 

I should be posting a full review by Monday but I'd like to say now that I really like what wbp and Mr.Gman have done here in this thread so props to them.


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## LED BriCK (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm confused as to the difference between the premium and standard versions. The sales thread says the standard uses all alu parts, but isn't the premium also aluminum? What parts are different? Is the standard still HA3?

EDIT- Jeez, I'm sorry, I just found it on the Neo-Fab website- the premium had SS bezel and tailcap.


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## applevision (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks WBP--this is superb.

Okay a few thoughts:

1. Advertising works! I clicked the banner ad and was very pleased to learn about this light!

2. I was shocked to see the relatively low price for this light--I had expected it to be > $400 from the looks of things and the experience with other more custom lights!

3. Now I'm REALLY torn! Can someone help me sort out the EagleTac M2, M2X and the Legion II? To my mind these are all direct competitors and should be closely compared. The price is within $30 as well...

Help!!

:candle:
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]


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## HKJ (Apr 8, 2009)

applevision said:


> 3. Now I'm REALLY torn! Can someone help me sort out the EagleTac M2, M2X and the Legion II? To my mind these are all direct competitors and should be closely compared. The price is within $30 as well...



You probably has to wait until somebody does a comparison between them.

Some of the differences are: 
The L2 has 3 batteries, that will give it longer runtime and make it more heavy, the construction of L2 is probably also more solid and heavy.

The UI is very different.


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## neoseikan (Apr 9, 2009)

HKJ said:


> You probably has to wait until somebody does a comparison between them.
> 
> Some of the differences are:
> The L2 has 3 batteries, that will give it longer runtime and make it more heavy, the construction of L2 is probably also more solid and heavy.
> ...



If anyone get a M2/M2X, I hope to lend him a sample to compare. But it's better to borrow the M2/M2X to wbp to get a lumens reading.
I hope to know, how many real torch lumens they have, and how their runtime curves look like.
I also hope to see the beam comparison.
But I am sure Legion II has the highest driver efficiency in the LED world (in its size. You can get a higher efficiency at a larger board.) So, I believe no light can beat Legion II if they use the same LED.


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## PsychoBunny (Apr 9, 2009)

I assume the light that was tested here was one of the "limited edition"
hand made units.
Since I have a regular "assembly line" version on order, I wonder how
consistent the performance will be from piece to piece!?
I know the only difference is the type of metal used, but what about
quality control? Will the 10th piece off the assembly line perform exactly
like the 500th?


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## wbp (Apr 9, 2009)

I have an M2X on order, so it follows that I will be measuring it when it gets here.

I tested 2 separate Legion II's and they were virtually identical. Given the design of this light, and especially the outstanding regulation of the driver circuit, I think any variation will be in the LED's themselves and only that.

William


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## HKJ (Apr 9, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> If anyone get a M2/M2X, I hope to lend him a sample to compare. But it's better to borrow the M2/M2X to wbp to get a lumens reading.
> I hope to know, how many real torch lumens they have, and how their runtime curves look like.
> I also hope to see the beam comparison.
> But I am sure Legion II has the highest driver efficiency in the LED world (in its size. You can get a higher efficiency at a larger board.) So, I believe no light can beat Legion II if they use the same LED.



You are probably right, but I am going to get the M2 anyway (and the TK40) and see what I like best. I am convinced that the L2 wins on runtime and I have a strong suspicion that it also has the highest output. But sometimes I need a light with less mass and a good lockout and the M2 will probably be better there.

For now, my only question is: When do I seen any of these light, I have ordered all of them, I am just waiting for the mailman.


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## cmacclel (Apr 9, 2009)

So how did they determine this was the brightest single LED Flashlight in the WORLD?? There has been many 1000 lumen LED lights built here on CPF.

neoseikan 

Your link to your website in your signature does not work........you forgot the .com

Mac


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 9, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> So how did they determine this was the brightest single LED Flashlight in the WORLD?? There has been many 1000 lumen LED lights built here on CPF.
> 
> neoseikan
> 
> ...





> So how did they determine this was the brightest single LED Flashlight in the WORLD?? There has been many 1000 lumen LED lights built here on CPF.



As far as I can remember, those 1000+ lumens lights were all Multi-Emitter monsters.


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## TITAN1833 (Apr 9, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> As far as I can remember, those 1000+ lumens lights were all Multi-Emitter monsters.


Actually that's not true a simple search threw up some single 1000 lumen P7/MC-E monsters :thumbsup:


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 9, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> Actually that's not true a simple search threw up some single 1000 lumen P7/MC-E monsters :thumbsup:


You are probably right, but I'm just not sure if those claimed lumens were verified in a real IS instead in some homemade device.

Even if those lights do deliver 1000 lumens, they just don't compared with the legion-II in terms of efficiency, regulation and runtime. I bet these CPF user-built lumen-beasts run hot like hell (losing lumens every second), in poor regulation (if any) and with pitiful runtimes.


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## wbp (Apr 9, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> So how did they determine this was the brightest single LED Flashlight in the WORLD?? There has been many 1000 lumen LED lights built here on CPF.



Mac,

I'd like to see a single LED flashlight that puts OUT 1000 lumens thru the lens into an integrating sphere. As far as I know the only single LED capable of that kind of output is the Ostar 6-die, and you'd need a LOT of heat sink to run it at that level for any length of time.

I don't know if the Legion II is the brightest, but right now at least, it is the most reliable, best regulated light I have seen to date. It will run on its highest setting for over 2 hours without breaking a sweat OR damaging the LED. Then you can put a fresh set of cells in it and it will do it all over again. There are a lot of lights around here that will do high output for a little while, but run them for 2 hours with only a small PC fan to cool them and then tell me how much light you get out of them after you replace the battery. Chances are very good that you now have a damaged or destroyed LED. 

But hey, I'm here to learn, so educate me if you can!

William


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## TITAN1833 (Apr 9, 2009)

I think it's ok to say it's the worlds brightest single led flashlight,well it is one of them after all I guess :shrug:


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## cmacclel (Apr 9, 2009)

You all bring up excellent points. I guess I'm just sick of seeing every overseas light manufacture having the best something in the "world" The regualtion looks perfect if thats what you want. Alot of people dislike that style regulation as you get no warning until you have no light.

Mac


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## neoseikan (Apr 9, 2009)

PsychoBunny said:


> I assume the light that was tested here was one of the "limited edition"
> hand made units.
> Since I have a regular "assembly line" version on order, I wonder how
> consistent the performance will be from piece to piece!?
> ...



At least, the driver's quality will be promised.
We have a very very strong workshop as our backup. They produce very expensive board, and do very good soldering.
Their percent of pass on soldering is 10 times than our hand work.


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## neoseikan (Apr 9, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> You all bring up excellent points. I guess I'm just sick of seeing every overseas light manufacture having the best something in the "world" The regualtion looks perfect if thats what you want. Alot of people dislike that style regulation as you get no warning until you have no light.
> 
> Mac



Hi. Mac. Thank you for pointing out the link error.
Legion II has the warning.


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## wbp (Apr 9, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> The regualtion looks perfect if thats what you want. Alot of people dislike that style regulation as you get no warning until you have no light.Mac



Why do you equate excellent regulation with no warning?

There is a warning, the light starts blinking, it just wasn't caught by the instrumentation. Even after it shuts down you can turn it back on at a lower output level and get more run time.

From what I can see Neoseikan and his team worked hard on the engineering of this light. They set some tough goals and met them. I for one think they did a great job. I was very impressed that they designed for longevity and reliability rather than try to get the highest possible output and risk damaging the light.

William


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## ehallspqr (Apr 9, 2009)

The tale of the tape will be in the sales numbers. Right now the overseas Flashlight makers are delivering the goods and for a much better price point. If you want a One-off custom titanium light with specified drivers, tints and the such then the domestic makers still seem to have the edge. I have bought my last over-priced mass produced SF type light though. By the way is this a Japanese or Chinese company? I noticed some of the best designs are coming from China right now. I have enquired about the standard Legion but I would hope NeoFab would continue to make the deluxe or even a Titanium version. Or how about a Aspherical lens version like the Tiablo or Deft? Imagine the throw with 750 + lumens behind it?


----------



## bullettproof (Apr 9, 2009)

ehallspqr said:


> The tale of the tape will be in the sales numbers. Right now the overseas Flashlight makers are delivering the goods and for a much better price point. If you want a One-off custom titanium light with specified drivers, tints and the such then the domestic makers still seem to have the edge. I have bought my last over-priced mass produced SF type light though. By the way is this a Japanese or Chinese company? I noticed some of the best designs are coming from China right now. I have enquired about the standard Legion but I would hope NeoFab would continue to make the deluxe or even a Titanium version. Or how about a Aspherical lens version like the Tiablo or Deft? Imagine the throw with 750 + lumens behind it?



That sounds like a great idea go ahead and get an Aspheric on a MC_E or P7 you will love that Awesome beam:sick2:


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## ehallspqr (Apr 9, 2009)

bullettproof said:


> That sounds like a great idea go ahead and get an Aspheric on a MC_E or P7 you will love that Awesome beam:sick2:


 
What you didn't like the big black artifact?

Obviously :shakehead but there are new higher and higher output LED/s seemingly coming out every week. NeoFab and other makers will have the ideal power drivers to take advantage when the right LED comes along. Deft is already evaluating other LED/s with much, much higher output. It won't be long before we see 1000 lumens behind an Aspherical lens. One thing is for sure, the race is on for mega output LED lights. Just in the last month or two we have seen 3 sub $180 dollars lights come to market, all vying for the top LED lumen title.


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## neoseikan (Apr 9, 2009)

ehallspqr said:


> The tale of the tape will be in the sales numbers. Right now the overseas Flashlight makers are delivering the goods and for a much better price point. If you want a One-off custom titanium light with specified drivers, tints and the such then the domestic makers still seem to have the edge. I have bought my last over-priced mass produced SF type light though. By the way is this a Japanese or Chinese company? I noticed some of the best designs are coming from China right now. I have enquired about the standard Legion but I would hope NeoFab would continue to make the deluxe or even a Titanium version. Or how about a Aspherical lens version like the Tiablo or Deft? Imagine the throw with 750 + lumens behind it?



Emm. I have some ideas to share:
1- I am in China.
2- A workshop who did very good Titanium lights said they can help us making titanium version body, but I am not sure about the heat dispersionof titanium.
3- I am very interested in Aspherical lens, but I hope to keep the recent head design, so I have to learn more about aspherical lens to get a good result.
4- I heard about a new single-die LED which can up to 9A, I am very interested in it. Though the size of die is 3*3mm, but I think there won't be donut in the beam.


----------



## ehallspqr (Apr 10, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> Emm. I have some ideas to share:
> 1- I am in China.
> 2- A workshop who did very good Titanium lights said they can help us making titanium version body, but I am not sure about the heat dispersionof titanium.
> 3- I am very interested in Aspherical lens, but I hope to keep the recent head design, so I have to learn more about aspherical lens to get a good result.
> 4- I heard about a new single-die LED which can up to 9A, I am very interested in it. Though the size of die is 3*3mm, but I think there won't be donut in the beam.


 
NeoFab Thanks for the update. Something to look fwd to in the "Hand-Cannon" light wars. Things have and will continue to evolve very quickly with regards to LED performance and the Aspherical optics is a natural step for those desiring monster throw. The Deft does some amazing things with 1/2 the emitter output. I know the market would be a smaller, niche type market but I think that a deluxe Ti version, ultra high performance LED light with a fancy optic would find buyers. Especially as cost efficient as China manufacturing seems to be able to make Titanium products. I ordered my Legion II light today. Like everyone else I was focused on the Fenix TK40 & EagleTac M2 and that caused me to let the opportunity to get a deluxe Legion II slip past. I'm glad I started paying closer attention to the reviews by WBP and others. I think the Legion II is the sleeper of the 3 Super LED lights that have come out recently.


----------



## applevision (Apr 10, 2009)

ehallspqr said:


> NeoFab Thanks for the update. Something to look fwd to in the "Hand-Cannon" light wars... I ordered my Legion II light today. Like everyone else I was focused on the Fenix TK40 & EagleTac M2 and that caused me to let the opportunity to get a deluxe Legion II slip past. I'm glad I started paying closer attention to the reviews by WBP and others. I think the Legion II is the sleeper of the 3 Super LED lights that have come out recently.



Beautifully put, *ehallspqr*, I think that about sums it up for me. One thing that they talk about in marketing is that when a Wendy's opens up across the street form McDonalds, it's actually GOOD for both! It seems to drum up business out of thin air.

In this case, it's clear that for others beyond just me that the hype and talk about the EagleTac and Fenix Hand-Cannons has driven up interest in this beauty. I am right on the edge of pulling trigger and ordering 3 more 18650s just for the light... lovecpf


----------



## easilyled (Apr 10, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> You all bring up excellent points. I guess I'm just sick of seeing every overseas light manufacture having the best something in the "world" The regualtion looks perfect if thats what you want. Alot of people dislike that style regulation as you get no warning until you have no light.
> 
> Mac



Mac, I think you have to give credit where its due and not focus on where the light was built. That seems to be a big deal for you.

You make some wonderful lights yourself, but then surely all the more reason to appreciate others that are good too. 

To get a constant 742 lumens out the front of one quad-die led for over 2 hours is very impressive in anyone's books.

There is apparently a warning as well when it gets to the point that the batteries are nearly depleted.

Apart from that, there is a battery level indicator as well.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Apr 10, 2009)

applevision said:


> Beautifully put, *ehallspqr*,
> 
> In this case, it's clear that for others beyond just me that the hype and talk about the EagleTac and Fenix Hand-Cannons has driven up interest in this beauty.


That's a tad unfair IMO fenix and eagletac have some of the brightest and best quality lights around,don't be too hasty in your judgement let's wait and see good reviews on these first :twothumbs


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 10, 2009)

Does it have parasitic drain? That's going to be another selling point over the competition...


----------



## HKJ (Apr 10, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Does it have parasitic drain? That's going to be another selling point over the competition...



It will have a standby drain, but if it is significant, we do not know yet.
The light with the lowest standby drain, I have, takes more than 100 years to drain the battery, the worst is below a year.


----------



## neoseikan (Apr 10, 2009)

HKJ said:


> It will have a standby drain, but if it is significant, we do not know yet.
> The light with the lowest standby drain, I have, takes more than 100 years to drain the battery, the worst is below a year.




Legion II has a standby drain. Emm, I found another selling point : It's absolutely quiet, without any noticeable noise at any level.
It's just because of the difference type of design.


----------



## cmacclel (Apr 10, 2009)

easilyled said:


> Mac, I think you have to give credit where its due and not focus on where the light was built. That seems to be a big deal for you.
> 
> You make some wonderful lights yourself, but then surely all the more reason to appreciate others that are good too.
> 
> ...



I don't care where the light was built it's apparent that this light is an excellent light and I will most likely purchase one. The problem I have is the "brightest in world" statement that we all see to often. I don't now why your on a crusade against defending imported lights but then that's your own prerogative. I have nothing against imported lights and have many Fenix's, Jetbeams, and the likes.

William I didn't see that the light blinks when it comes out of regulation and still lets you utilize the lower levels. That's great! Are they still on target to be on sale next month.



Mac


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## applevision (Apr 10, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> That's a tad unfair IMO fenix and eagletac have some of the brightest and best quality lights around,don't be too hasty in your judgement let's wait and see good reviews on these first :twothumbs



Yikes, *TITAN1833*! I meant it as a pretty broad statement not as a judgement at all--I totally agree that I'm waiting for the reviews as well. I guess I should have said all the _excitement_ (which is well-warranted I think!) about the other lights has driven up interest in this "semi-custom". That's all I really meant.

:thumbsup:


----------



## TITAN1833 (Apr 10, 2009)

applevision said:


> Yikes, *TITAN1833*! I meant it as a pretty broad statement not as a judgement at all--I totally agree that I'm waiting for the reviews as well. I guess I should have said all the _excitement_ (which is well-warranted I think!) about the other lights has driven up interest in this "semi-custom". That's all I really meant.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Ah! got ya now! I totally agree with you these are exciting times and my guess is there is more to come though it may not appeal to my wallet :mecry:


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## evenchaos (Apr 10, 2009)

It just gets better and better .


neoseikan said:


> 2- A workshop who did very good Titanium lights said they can help us making titanium version body, but I am not sure about the heat dispersionof titanium.



Sweet ... let me know if you get more details, this looks like an excellent upgrade. However, titanium is a *very poor thermal conductor*. You would NOT want to use it for the led assembly and head heatsink. The battery body, tailcap, bezel, ring on the other hand would make for good candidates to be made of titanium.



neoseikan said:


> 3- I am very interested in Aspherical lens, but I hope to keep the recent head design, so I have to learn more about aspherical lens to get a good result.



It can be done with a creative solution  How about a TIROS?



neoseikan said:


> 4- I heard about a new single-die LED which can up to 9A, I am very interested in it. Though the size of die is 3*3mm, but I think there won't be donut in the beam.



Excellent! Good to hear you are looking into this led . BTW, 3x3mm die is just a hairline bigger than the MC-E die though the dome is slightly larger than MC-E but smaller than P7.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 10, 2009)

A Legion-II with a TIROS would be SICK! 

I know NeoseiKan can deliver! :thumbsup:

Come on, bring us something like or better than the unreleased SureFire M3TL... :naughty:


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## ehallspqr (Apr 10, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> That's a tad unfair IMO fenix and eagletac have some of the brightest and best quality lights around,don't be too hasty in your judgement let's wait and see good reviews on these first :twothumbs



Titan, What AppleVision said. I don't think you can go wrong with any of these latest/greatest "Super" LED lights. The prices are right, the quality high and the performance in all areas that count is superb. The bar has just been raised and the other builders on CPF have new targets to shoot for. Competition is the great driver of innovation and I'm sure all the friendly competition will only yield us better and better lights in the future. Yes Titan we all better save up more money. Three great new lights may mean we may have to buy all three?


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## AardvarkSagus (Apr 10, 2009)

I personally would be very much interested in seeing a Legion II utilizing both the Phlatlight SST-90 (run at around 3.2-4A) and a TIROS designed around it. This would be one of the most insanely bright lights available right now.


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## niner (Apr 10, 2009)

My office is less than a mile away from Luminus. Now if I can come up with a good excuse to stop by...


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## AardvarkSagus (Apr 10, 2009)

And request a sample LED for a couple of us...


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## evenchaos (Apr 10, 2009)

Here here ! :twothumbs


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## easilyled (Apr 10, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> I don't care where the light was built it's apparent that this light is an excellent light and I will most likely purchase one. The problem I have is the "brightest in world" statement that we all see to often. I don't now why your on a crusade against defending imported lights but then that's your own prerogative. I have nothing against imported lights and have many Fenix's, Jetbeams, and the likes.
> 
> William I didn't see that the light blinks when it comes out of regulation and still lets you utilize the lower levels. That's great! Are they still on target to be on sale next month.
> 
> Mac



No crusade. Just reacting to the use of the word "overseas" pejoratively which I've seen you do several times.


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## neoseikan (Apr 10, 2009)

niner said:


> My office is less than a mile away from Luminus. Now if I can come up with a good excuse to stop by...



It's great!
Just ask for some samples or buy some for me?
Thanks!


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## niner (Apr 11, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> It's great!
> Just ask for some samples or buy some for me?
> Thanks!


 
Neoseikan, check your PM


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## FlashlightsNgear.com (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks Neoseikan, I should have several other MC-E lights to do some comparing with in the next week or so, and will add some beamshots to your thread ASAP. I cant wait to see this Monster of Light!!


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## Mattole (Apr 12, 2009)

Amazing beamshots, WBP - could you really clearly identify an object at 100m by eye with this light? If so, this seems to be a light I have been waiting for..

So what is the current wait time for receiving a 'standard' version of this light?Or should I wait to see if another version is on the horizon with the Luminus components?

Great work, Neoseikan!


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## applevision (Apr 12, 2009)

d1live said:


> Thanks Neoseikan, I should have several other MC-E lights to do some comparing with in the next week or so, and will add some beamshots to your thread ASAP. I cant wait to see this Monster of Light!!



Oh I can't wait!


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## EDC (Apr 13, 2009)

wbp, thanks for the review. It has definitely sparked my interest with this light.



Neoseikan,
The Legion II looks awesome & the regulation on 18650's is amazing. You've mentioned in another thread that this light will also run on 4 CR123a's + 2 dummy cells & 5 CR123a's + 1 dummy cell. What can we expect in regards to regulation, runtime, & brightness when running the Legion II with the different CR123a battery configurations? I understand that this light was built for 18650s & that's what I intend to primarily use. The CR123a batteries would serve as backups.


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## neoseikan (Apr 13, 2009)

EDC said:


> What can we expect in regards to regulation, runtime, & brightness when running the Legion II with the different CR123a battery configurations? I understand that this light was built for 18650s & that's what I intend to primarily use. The CR123a batteries would serve as backups.



Hi, when we put CR123A/RCR123 batteries into Legion II, the only thing changed is the runtime. The light will stop working when the total voltage is lower than a preset value.
And the output and regulation will be as good as 18650s.


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## EDC (Apr 13, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> Hi, when we put CR123A/RCR123 batteries into Legion II, the only thing changed is the runtime. The light will stop working when the total voltage is lower than a preset value.
> And the output and regulation will be as good as 18650s.



:wow: That's impressive. What voltage did you use for this value?


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## neoseikan (Apr 13, 2009)

EDC said:


> :wow: That's impressive. What voltage did you use for this value?



Recently it is about 7.5V.
But it's different with the voltage you check with a multimeter,
because it's a "loaded" voltage.


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## EDC (Apr 13, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> Recently it is about 7.5V.
> But it's different with the voltage you check with a multimeter,
> because it's a "loaded" voltage.



My knowledge of batteries is very limited but from what I understand, this ultimately means that when I use CR123a's as backups for the Legion II, I should use the 5 x CR123a + 1 dummy cell configuration to get the most out of the batteries. Is this correct? Thanks for the info.


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## neoseikan (Apr 13, 2009)

EDC said:


> My knowledge of batteries is very limited but from what I understand, this ultimately means that when I use CR123a's as backups for the Legion II, I should use the 5 x CR123a + 1 dummy cell configuration to get the most out of the batteries. Is this correct? Thanks for the info.



Yes. And the voltage of RCR123 / 16340 is higher, so only 4 pcs of them can be used.


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## EDC (Apr 13, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> Yes. And the voltage of RCR123 / 16340 is higher, so only 4 pcs of them can be used.



Understood 
The Legion II is now on top of my wish list.:twothumbs When do you expect to begin full scale production of the standard model?


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## neoseikan (Apr 13, 2009)

EDC said:


> Understood
> The Legion II is now on top of my wish list.:twothumbs When do you expect to begin full scale production of the standard model?



"The full scale" still depends on the demands.
If you order one right now, we can be nearer to that goal. LOL


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## Mattole (Apr 13, 2009)

I'll ask again - If I order a standard model, how long will it take to receive it? Also, what is the throw distance with this light, i.e. how far away can you clearly identify something? Thanks - I'm very interested.


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## EDC (Apr 13, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> "The full scale" still depends on the demands.
> If you order one right now, we can be nearer to that goal. LOL



:laughing: I should have excluded the words "full scale" from my question. Please allow me to rephrase it. When will you start producing the standard model?


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## sjalbrec (Apr 13, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> "The full scale" still depends on the demands.
> If you order one right now, we can be nearer to that goal. LOL


 

mmm, does this mean you won't start production of the standard version until you have a minimum number of orders? i can see how this makes sense for your business model, but, i guess i shouldn't have pre-paid for a standard version back on march 16th as it looks like delivery time cannot even be forecast at this time. :sigh:

alternatively, i would recommend delivering as many of the standard versions as possible as soon as possible. this would generate favorable reviews which would then spark more orders. :twothumbs

i understand neosaiken is personally assembling the premium versions, at the rate of about 3-5 every two weeks (with three shipped and a total of 22 confirmed ordered). at this rate the 22nd premium version could ship as late as may 29th.

i don't suppose the production of the standard version could begin in parallel? or do we have to wait until all of the premium versions are shipped - and then wait for the assembly-line team to get up and running? 

i hate to jump on the complaint bandwagon, but neoseikan's inability to update the pre-order thread, his inability to deliver flashlights according to his own promises, and the fact that he is intentionally not answering questions about delivery dates seems to have the potential to sink the standard version before it can get off the ground. 

neoseikan, may i be so bold as to suggest you look up the idea of "under-promise and over-deliver"? i would also suggest you look up the idea of "immediate gratification" - this is something i normally take for granted in the USA. while i don't want to speak for anyone else, even ruler-straight current regulation and high lumens aren't going to keep many peoples' interest forever. "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" 

i'm very new here, but is it standard practice to ask a manufacturer to change his design this often? i'm not in any way flaming anyone! i'm just trying to better understand the custom manufacturer process. for the legion II, i see as many complaints about the production delay as i do for requests to change the reflector/LED/amps etc. these two types of comments seem to directly contradict each other. :touche:



...when there is nothing left to burn,
you must set yourself on fire...


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## applevision (Apr 13, 2009)

Oh *Neoseikan*!

Please respond and save the day here! I feel like I am watching your reputation crumble before my eyes and I do really want a Legion II! But now I'm _really_ fearful of sending my money in!

Please, let's just start over. I think that most/many of us would be okay knowing that you haven't even started on the standard model yet but that you need some $$$ upfront to get things going. I respect that. And if you could promise delivery by a certain date or else refund the $, I will send you cash right away. The most important thing right now for me is to see that you are:

A) Responsive (which so far you have not been in answering any of these questions)

B) Transparent about where you are at and what you are doing

Without these, I think many folks will take their dollars elsewhere...


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## wbp (Apr 13, 2009)

You guys crack me up. The internet connects the world, but it doesn't change the difference in time zones. As I post this, it's currently 8:45 AM in Beijing...


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## EDC (Apr 13, 2009)

neoseikan said:


> "The full scale" still depends on the demands.
> If you order one right now, we can be nearer to that goal. LOL





sjalbrec said:


> mmm, does this mean you won't start production of the standard version until you have a minimum number of orders?



I don't think he meant that. I believe he was merely stating that the market demand will dictate whether or not he meets his overall production goals.


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## applevision (Apr 13, 2009)

wbp said:


> You guys crack me up. The internet connects the world, but it doesn't change the difference in time zones. As I post this, it's currently 8:45 AM in Beijing...



Hi *wbp*, you're right and I didn't mean to imply that he wasn't being timely on this particular post... 

I guess I just meant the general lack of directly responding to these concerns both on this thread and the one in the CPF marketplace.

I just really want one of these lights but have read several threads where folks seem frustrated about when these will actually be ready and I think I'd love a post that sort of sets things straight, something like: "Guys, sorry I've been remiss on this. We've been finalizing stuff and have been working really long days and I didn't want to overpromise... but now you can see a list of those who have ordered and the status of their order in post #1 and I will be updating the status every few days..."

That's what I'm hoping for in the next few days... and then he gets my dinero! :thumbsup:


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## cowboyway (Apr 13, 2009)

Very informative, thanks.


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## Steve Curtis (Apr 14, 2009)

Neoseikan must be manic with this project so I’m not surprised that things are moving slowly.
( look how long it takes Surefire to get things moving with new products) 
 
I have been intouch with him by Pm to ask a few questions and he has always got back to me within 24hours :twothumbs
 
The thing is that now more people are e-mail and pm’ing, so more time is spent answering questions rather than building flashlights. 
I'm not suggesting this situation is perfect ,However, I and many other want this light so will be willing to wait however long it takes.
 
the good things in life are worth waiting for , if you cant wait then go elsewhere for a quick fix and come back in a few months when I’m sure they will be ready for us all to enjoy.


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## littlerm (Apr 14, 2009)

Hey everyone, i have finally registered after about 4 months of continuous cpf addiction.

all i can say is that i have spent hours researching the long throwing Torches and have come up with the following:

1. Everyone is trying to make a cost efffective long thrower - which is brilliant.
2. Everyone seems to be claiming highest output - without any substantial proof.
3. Everyone is promising long runtimes and high efficiencies - i'm sure there is a trade off between high efficiency and high output.

Now from looking at the various jetbeam, dereelight, omg, surefire, tiablo, fenix i have come to the conclusion that the legion II is in a class of its own.

Now i have not myself touched it but from the reviews i have found the following advantages, the best form factor and most innovative, highest run times, highest efficiencies using the finest materials, best ui - the teflon bearing mechanism (the surefire is a bit vague on the rubber / plastic twist enclosure), and also the fact that it has been independently verified by a couple of well known cpfers.:nana:

Disadvantages are that it cannot take 6 cr123s, and guarantee of IP rating.

Now I would prefer the lighter aluminum version and like the P7 mass wall of light it produces so I have ordered one. 

I do agree that an aspherical lens option would be brilliant and that the new single die 9A led is worth pursuing.

Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

Mark


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 14, 2009)

littlerm said:


> Hey everyone, i have finally registered after about 4 months of continuous cpf addiction.
> 
> all i can say is that i have spent hours researching the long throwing Torches and have come up with the following:
> 
> ...


Great effing post!

And WELCOME TO CPF!!


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## Cheesy (Apr 14, 2009)

Steve Curtis said:


> Neoseikan must be manic with this project so I’m not surprised that things are moving slowly.
> ( look how long it takes Surefire to get things moving with new products)
> 
> I have been intouch with him by Pm to ask a few questions and he has always got back to me within 24hours :twothumbs
> ...



Admirable sentiments, I'm sure. There is, however, the little matter of around $7500 in pre-paid funds with only 1 light known to have arrived with it's buyer. It's not that things are overdue, it's that all Neoseikans efforts on this forum appear to be directed at pimping for more sales rather than answering direct questions about delivery forecasts with any thing other than 'your lights will follow soon!'. How long does it honestly take to go through a list of less than 30 people and provide a status update if your books are all in order?

Sad as it is to say, at this juncture I cannot recommend to anyone that they pre-pay for any more lights.


Kev.


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## Steve Curtis (Apr 14, 2009)

fair points Kev ,it's ultimately up to the individuals as to how long they decide to wait for the product.

As yet i don't have an order pending so have no financial interest BUT i cant say that this is putting me off ordering.

I'm sure things will pan out well for everyone involved.





All the best
steve


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## applevision (Apr 14, 2009)

This is shaping up to be the *Great Legion-II Debacle of '09*.:sigh:

In this economy we need transparency... 

Said it before and I'll say it again: NEO PLEASE SAVE US!


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## WadeF (Apr 14, 2009)

Is that DBS 3SM R2 the 1A pill or the 1.2A pill? Is the DBS MC-E the 2.1A or the 2.4A pill?


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## PhantomPhoton (Apr 14, 2009)

I'll prepay for a nice version of the Legion. Not for a mass produced, economy version. 

So far I still have no conclusive answers on the differences between the two versions. The only things I"m sure of at this point are 
Same: driver and UI
Different: body and bezel material (cheaper aluminum and not stainless steel respectively)
There are a lot of smaller components like the high quality window for which I still have no answers.

I think the biggest mistake here has been offering a limited number of nice ones, and making everyone else who didn't get one in time settle for a "cheap" one. (And then not having any concrete answers about when the cheap one will actually start production) 

The thing is that we can already get mass produced "big" lights for less money from other vendors- lights which are similar enough to the Legion 2 to fill that big 'un gap in the collection. What must be understood is there are plenty of CPFers with the mentality of having the best, nicest, biggest, etc. And there are also many obsessed with lower priced lights. The cheap Legion 2 doesn't interest either group imo. So the number of people willing to prepay will be small. 

Personally, I simply refuse to put money into a prepay and wait around for other people to commit to prepay before any production plans are made. I'd much rather get on a waiting list for an expensive one and wait a couple months for it to be hand built. No way I'm putting money into a cheap one and not know when it will be produced...
:ironic:


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## ehallspqr (Apr 14, 2009)

PhantomPhoton said:


> I'll prepay for a nice version of the Legion. Not for a mass produced, economy version.
> 
> So far I still have no conclusive answers on the differences between the two versions. The only things I"m sure of at this point are
> Same: driver and UI
> ...


 
Yes the information flow is rather weak.

From NeoFab's website, he states the differences between a deluxe and standard:

LEGION II has two versions: Limited Version / Standard Version. Here is the differences:​　Limited VersionStandard VersionBezel/TailcapStainless SteelAluBodyALCOA 7075-T651 6061-T6Quantity30not limited



The Standard light has a different alloy, 6061-T6 vs. 7075-T651 which I wouldn't necessarily say is a bad thing. 7075 is a harder, less machine-able alloy hence the higher fabrication costs. 6061 is pretty good stuff and it is heat treated to T6 the same as the 7075, then coated with the same hard anodizing. I would say you would not be able to tell the difference nor get any-less real world durability from 6061. Of course no stainless tailcap and Bezel. I was under the impression that the LE uses the same components but instead of hand assembled by Neo it is farmed out to a soldering/assembly shop which I suppose will be closely supervised by NeoFab and do a pretty good job. The lens I also assume is the same since he doesn't mention it is different. I would agree with PhantomP that the deluxe will be the desired light for many CPFer's. And yes, many will not want to pre-pay for a standard until it is on-hand. But if it where on-hand NeoFab would be selling a ton of them like Fenix/EagleTac are with their new light cannons. I know between the 3 the Legion II is the one I would be buying. The longer this drags on the more potential customers NeoFab will lose to the Fenix/EagleTac sales machine. Like PhantomP said and I agree. NeoFab is better off to concentrate on the higher-end buyers with a custom product already in production. This may be a better strategy than trying to take on Fenix/EagleTac with another massed produced light, that is a latecomer to boot.


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## Glenn7 (Apr 15, 2009)

IMHO if you want the best and are really interested in this light and cant afford to just splash money around and want a light that will service you for a long time - I know its a loooooong read but have a read of the Spartanian II by neofab part I and II.

And if you were apart of the Spartanian II saga and are still on the list for the "up graded" body - then you can see where this is headed - plus take note of the time frame as you read up until now.

I will say just one more thing - if I was given a free light (and a manufacturer I wouldn't hand out bad QC ones for review) - I would feel obligated to blow my horn about it too - Just venting my opinion/experience from owning a S2 :tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil: there that will protect me.


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## MrGman (Apr 15, 2009)

Phantom Photon I think its bad form to throw the word "cheap" around for the lower cost version of a light of this caliber. There is a negative connotation with something that is "cheap" versus simply a lower priced model. I wouldn't say that something using the same LED driver that is factory made versus hand built, and 6061 T6 Aluminum alloy (which is Aircraft grade by the way) versus 7075 and some parts in Stainless steel makes it "cheap". If you don't want to pre order it, that's your business, but it is by no means a "cheap" light. That gives the connotation of not just lower cost but lower quality. If this light was available even just 3 years ago without the stainless steel or 7075 Aluminum, you would have been drooling all over it. You need to keep things in a more realistic perspective. 

If you can't pre order and wait, thats up to you, but delivery schedules have nothing to do with this "standard" model's quality, and it is by no means a "cheap" light. G


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## PhantomPhoton (Apr 15, 2009)

MrGman said:


> Phantom Photon I think its bad form to throw the word "cheap" around for the lower cost version of a light of this caliber. There is a negative connotation with something that is "cheap" versus simply a lower priced model. I wouldn't say that something using the same LED driver that is factory made versus hand built, and 6061 T6 Aluminum alloy (which is Aircraft grade by the way) versus 7075 and some parts in Stainless steel makes it "cheap". If you don't want to pre order it, that's your business, but it is by no means a "cheap" light. That gives the connotation of not just lower cost but lower quality. If this light was available even just 3 years ago without the stainless steel or 7075 Aluminum, you would have been drooling all over it. You need to keep things in a more realistic perspective.
> 
> If you can't pre order and wait, thats up to you, but delivery schedules have nothing to do with this "standard" model's quality, and it is by no means a "cheap" light. G



I've seen a couple pre-orders go down in flames thus I'm not willing to pre-order a light that will hopefully go into production if enough people decide to buy it.
I feel my use of the word cheap is justified. It is literally a cheaper version. Plus I purposefully used quotation around my first use of _cheap_ to hopefully make my use of the word more clear. If it was not, then I do apologize; If I ever say something incorrect, false or otherwise malicious I welcome the correction and I will edit my post accordingly if need be.

I'm not too worried about the grade of aluminum or the stainless steel bezel.  (though a bit of "bling" is always nice sometimes) 
I'm worried about the undefined quality of the other parts of the light. The problem is that there are few confirmed similarities or differences between the limited run model and the cheap model; and I've seen requests for further details go unanswered as of the time when I posted the comments. Once I see concrete details and a projected estimate of when the light will start being produced I may decide that it is worth my money.

Finally you'll note that I'm posting this in the discussion section rather than Neo's sales thread. I do understand that what I have to say may be seen as negative by some individuals. But just because the discussion may be uncomfortable to some who feel obligated to defend a vaporware product doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed... as long as it is done in the proper place in a civil manner.


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## easilyled (Apr 15, 2009)

I agree with MrGman that the lack of clear delivery dates is a separate issue from the difference between the elite model and the standard model.

I wouldn't call $179 cheap by any means and if I were to buy one, I would expect it to perform just as well as the elite version.

The lack of delivery dates is certainly putting me off from ordering one and I am starting to gravitate towards ordering an O-light Triton or Eagletac M1 instead.

This is only because of the delivery dates, though. The Legion II would have been my first choice otherwise and I would have already ordered one
if they had rolled out as I expected them to.


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## TITAN1833 (Apr 15, 2009)

I agree delivery dates are a separate issue but quality isn't, more worrying is of the two reported premium lights delivered none have worked out of the box,you only have to read the thread in the MP to find who I'm talking about :shakehead


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## Glenn7 (Apr 15, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> I agree delivery dates are a separate issue but quality isn't, more worrying is of the two reported premium lights delivered none have worked out of the box,you only have to read the thread in the MP to find who I'm talking about :shakehead



As I stated echoes of the S2


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## ace0001a (Apr 15, 2009)

MrGman said:


> Phantom Photon I think its bad form to throw the word "cheap" around for the lower cost version of a light of this caliber. There is a negative connotation with something that is "cheap" versus simply a lower priced model. I wouldn't say that something using the same LED driver that is factory made versus hand built, and 6061 T6 Aluminum alloy (which is Aircraft grade by the way) versus 7075 and some parts in Stainless steel makes it "cheap". If you don't want to pre order it, that's your business, but it is by no means a "cheap" light. That gives the connotation of not just lower cost but lower quality. If this light was available even just 3 years ago without the stainless steel or 7075 Aluminum, you would have been drooling all over it. You need to keep things in a more realistic perspective.
> 
> If you can't pre order and wait, thats up to you, but delivery schedules have nothing to do with this "standard" model's quality, and it is by no means a "cheap" light. G



I agree and I've said this on the manufacturer's thread and I'll say it here: I would hardly call the standard edition Legion II a "cheap version". As pointed out, the differences between the standard and limited editions have to do with grades of aluminum (6061 for the standard and 7075 for the limited) and hand assembly for the limited edition over the factory assembled standard version. Both will have the same high quality driver circuit, emitters and HAIII treatment/finish. I expect a top notch product for either version. :thumbsup:

What I consider a "cheap" MC-E/P7 light would be one that can be purchased for $60 or less from places like Deal Extreme. I've already put my money down for a Legion II Standard Version because I know it is a high quality flashlight. I'm not deep pockets enough to consider a $150+ flashlight cheap and even if I were, I still would keep things in perspective. Just my 2 cents...


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## TITAN1833 (Apr 15, 2009)

Ok can we just agree the standard version is a cheaper version of the more expensive premium version after all it's $100 cheaper ,I think that's what phantom photon was saying


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## PhantomPhoton (Apr 15, 2009)

Yes, however I do recognize I'm saying it in a slightly abrasive way. :tinfoil:

I see the unknown details of the differences between the limited production models and the relatively lesser price models to be directly connected to the want of pre-pay as well as unknown manufacture date. Perhaps others don't. :shrug:


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## easilyled (Apr 15, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> I agree delivery dates are a separate issue but quality isn't, more worrying is of the two reported premium lights delivered none have worked out of the box,you only have to read the thread in the MP to find who I'm talking about :shakehead



Hmmm!, that is really worrying indeed. :sigh:


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## ace0001a (Apr 15, 2009)

Yeah I'm getting a bit antsy myself. I believe that Neo is sincere in his efforts, but obviously production seems to have fallen behind any of the predicted schedules. Hopefully all who ordered will get their flashlights soon enough. I've got my fingers crossed.


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## IlluminatedOne (Apr 15, 2009)

Thats really is a beautiful flashlight, hope everthing gets sorted out.


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## ODatsBright (Apr 20, 2009)

I just finished reading this whole thread and I have to say that I was a bit disappointed. I was seriously considering purchasing this light until I went back and re-read the buy-it section of his website and noticed the one obscure note at the end. The standard version will be available for shipping in May. 

I'll wait to buy one once the standard version is available for immediate shipment.

This post is not meant to be a bash or negative in any way! I will be purchasing one of these when they become available. 2+ hours of 700+ lumens of flood lighting is PERFECT for me. I'd most likely use a slightly lower setting for even longer runtimes...EXCELLENT! 



On a side note, I think manufacturers of quality lights, much like this one, would benefit from a system like Dereelight. A light like this, with rock solid regulation, would be that much more 'justifiable'  if user replaceable emitters could be installed as they become available.


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## easilyled (Apr 20, 2009)

There seems to be a sort of vicious circle operating here.

Neoseikan would like people to pre-order the lights without any exact dates of when to expect them.

The funds and numbers from the pre-order helping him to identify the numbers of lights to order and be built up by the machine shop he is using for the standard version presumably.

On the other hand, we are unwilling to pre-order a light when we could be waiting for months for it to arrive.

Seems to be a bit of an impasse here.

Maybe a better system would have been to operate a list and take a deposit of say $50 per light from the onset.

This would have released some funds and also served as a firm commitment so that he could see in advance the numbers involved.

However, I'm not a businessman. No doubt, this is an oversimplification of what's involved or maybe he needs most of the funds up front. :shrug:


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## wbp (Apr 20, 2009)

Guys, this is a review thread. Isn't there already another thread discussing the (pre)order in the Marketplace? I hope whatever problems there are get sorted out but I'd like to keep this thread on topic.


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## picard (Jul 30, 2009)

why does the beam have a sharp donut hole ?

Is donut hole created by MCE-E LED ?


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## neoseikan (Jul 31, 2009)

picard said:


> why does the beam have a sharp donut hole ?
> 
> Is donut hole created by MCE-E LED ?



Yes. It's because of the MC-E LED.
But OP reflector can control that hole.
Now, people can hardly notice the dark hole with the new OP reflector.

Yours, Neoseikan


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## applevalleyjoe (Sep 19, 2010)

nanotech17 said:


> :wow:
> look at the build quality & look at the beamshot


 

Is this the Limited Edition or perhaps the introductory model? The new ones don't look at all like this one...not near as nice!


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