# Best Smart Charger with Enloops



## EfiX (Dec 12, 2011)

Best Smart Charger with Enloops- BC-700, BC-1000 or MAHA Powerex MH-C9000? And why?

Don't offer regular original charger please. 
Please help me out.


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## lwien (Dec 12, 2011)

Most here will suggest the MAHA C-9000, but I've been using the LaCrosse BC700 with both AA and AAA Eneloops for over a year now and it's been working flawlessly.

Personally, I like it better than the 9000 for a few reasons. One, is that it's a bit more user friendly being that you can set it globally while making the setting for one batt along with the fact that you can see all of the data for all batts at once without having to scroll through each batt. Secondly, I enjoy the fact that when the charger says it's done, it's really done, unlike the 9000 where you need a 2 hour top off charge after the charger states that it's done to get to the same level of charge.

The 9000 has a break-in mode that the 700 does not have, but in my experience and the experience of others, this function isn't really necessary for Eneloops. But............the build quality seems better on the 9000.

Hope this helps.


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## Wrend (Dec 12, 2011)

I use the break in function more to test cell capacity and for matching cells.

I also like that the main charging phase ends more conservatively and is then followed by a slow top off charge. The cells only get slightly warm and it will probably help prolong their life.

Cycling through the display isn't really an issue at all.

What I don't like most about the C9000 is that it goes to a default charging mode after a power failure. I built a relay box of sorts with a reset button so that the power to the charger stays off after a power failure until I manually reengage it. Other than that I really like the C9000, and recommend it, especially for use with Eneloops since the AAs are plug and play charging.


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## UnknownVT (Dec 12, 2011)

lwien said:


> but I've been using the LaCrosse BC700 with both AA and AAA Eneloops for over a year now and it's been working flawlessly.


It's hard to argue against actual usage, and if it's worked flawlessly - then it's obviously working.

However a point worth considering - if one is looking for the "best"

According to battery experts the optimal charging current for eneloops and other NiMH batteries is 0.5C.
eneloop C= 2000mAh - so 0.5 C = 1,000mA or 1A.

The reason for this:

Quote from the BatteryUniversity.com

" The charge algorithm for NiMH is similar to NiCd with the exception that NiMH is more complex. The NDV method to measure full charge shows only a faint voltage drop, especially when charging at less than 0.5C. A hot battery or one with mismatched cells works against the already minute voltage drop.
...
It is difficult, if not impossible, to slow-charge a NiMH battery. At a C‑rate of 0.1 to 0.3C, the voltage and temperature profiles fail to exhibit defined characteristics to measure the full-charge state accurately and the charger must depend on a timer. Harmful overcharge will occur if a fixed timer controls the charge. This is especially apparent when charging partially or fully charged batteries. "

The maximum charging current for the LaCrosse BC700 is 700mA.


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## snakyjake (Dec 13, 2011)

My next NiMH charger will be Maha MH-C808M. It does more sizes, more simple, more rugged. It's something the family can use.


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## EfiX (Dec 13, 2011)

Iv'e lost you guys... maybe there is a small review between BC-700 to BC-900 to C9000?
I must order one tomorrow

Thank you​


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## weez82 (Dec 13, 2011)

have you looked in the stickies or used the search function yet? This topic have been done many times and I dont think anything has changed over the last few years. Have a look at the stickies and use the search function 

Anyways, it is hard to recommend anything other than the C-9000 right now. The BC-700 is a good charger but is too close in price to the better C-9000


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## UnknownVT (Dec 13, 2011)

EfiX said:


> Iv'e lost you guys... maybe there is a small review between BC-700 to BC-900 to C9000?
> I must order one tomorrow​


There's guy calledhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/AOEAD7DPLZ/?tag=cpf0b6-20 *NLee the Engineer* on Amazon who write very informative reviews on batteries and chargers.

The LaCrosse BC-900 has been discontinued for some time now the latest is the BC-1000
NLee the Englineer's review of the BC-1000
his review of the BC-700
his comparison between the Maha C9000 and the LaCrosse BC-900

I do take his points - 
but I ended up buying the Maha C9000 as it has more flexibility than the LaCrosse
and at the current price of less than $50 shipped it's a bargain.

​


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## Wrend (Dec 13, 2011)

I strongly disagree with his opinion that the C9000 is difficult and arduous to program and use. In fact, I think it is very easy, straightforward, and doesn't take long at all.

I had actually read that review (or a similar one) on Amazon before buying the C9000 from Thomas Distributing. After I got my C9000 and used it, I found some of the reviews I had read to be very misleading.

I would recommend putting in one cell at a time and programming the settings for that cell before putting in the next one so you don't lose track of what you're doing and so the charger doesn't default to the standard 1000mA charge, unless of course you want the standard charge.

I charge AA Eneloops at the default 1000mA and AAA Eneloops at 400mA. I leave them on the charger for a total of about 5 hours to make sure they're more balanced at a fully charged topped off state. I never have to wait for them to charge because I store my Eneloops charged in series cell sets and just switch them out whenever I need them.


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## samgab (Dec 13, 2011)

I also disagree with "NLEE". I could write reviews on Amazon calling myself "Samgab the crown prince of Estonia" and it would mean no more than his self-acclaimed engineer's title. I read his reviews, and noted several points he made, that to me just seemed misleading. 
I compared the two chargers mentioned above, and ended up choosing the C9000, but there are plenty who have posted on this forum who have owned and used both extensively, and usually recommend the C9000. Anyone who has only owned ONE of the two, such as myself with the C9000, and others who have only owned the La Crosse offerings can't really offer a truly informed opinion, other than going by what we've read.
If you do a google search of this forum, eg using the "site:candlepowerforums.com" operator, you'll find that others here have previously done side-by-side comparisons of the two, which you may find useful. 
-I think either choice would be good. I personally chose the C9000 and it works fine for me. Don't believe anyone who moans about having to press the buttons too many times on the C9000. That's a load of rubbish, and anyone who regularly uses it will tell you the same.


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## N162E (Dec 13, 2011)

UnknownVT said:


> It's hard to argue against actual usage, and if it's worked flawlessly - then it's obviously working.
> 
> It is difficult, if not impossible, to slow-charge a NiMH battery. At a C‑rate of 0.1 to 0.3C, the voltage and temperature profiles fail to exhibit defined characteristics to measure the full-charge state accurately and the charger must depend on a timer. Harmful overcharge will occur if a fixed timer controls the charge. This is especially apparent when charging partially or fully charged batteries. "
> 
> The maximum charging current for the LaCrosse BC700 is 700mA.


Many people seem to consider the above to be "Fact" The reality is that most chargers (Especially the C-9000) can't sense full charge below about 700ma rate. The BC-700/900 chargers sense full as low as their minimum rate of 200ma.

Last time I looked Sanyo based their ratings on C/10 charge rates.

I like a 500ma rate with my BC-700 and 900s. Works for me.


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## snakyjake (Dec 13, 2011)

Why not MH-C800S/MH-C801D/MH-C808M? Or even Sanyo's MQR06 charger? The C-9000 you have to program, the ones I mentioned are plug 'n charge and something the family can use. 

C-9000 is being suggested, why not a hobby charger instead? Hobby chargers are better, more versatile, and a lot cheaper.

I'm wanting a smart charger, where I don't have to be smart to charge a battery.


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## Wrend (Dec 13, 2011)

Get whatever charger you want and think you need.

However, I do highly recommend that you be smarter than the charger. That is, educate yourself.

By the way, Eneloop AAs are plug and charge on the C9000.

Also, hobby chargers are not better at charging multiple loose cells. They typically only charge cells in series. This can be a bad thing to do to loose cells with uneven amounts of charged capacity.


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## Wrend (Dec 13, 2011)

N162E said:


> ...



The C9000 has had some firmware updates since the first models. It now ends a charge much more conservatively, then slowly tops off the cells at a very low charging rate. It also isn't as unreliable at detecting when some cells are done as it was.

The main problem with charging at faster rates is overcharging at faster rates. The C9000 charges AA Eneloops within their recommendations by default.

Obviously you don't want to charge the cells too quickly and cause them to heat up too much.


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## UnknownVT (Dec 14, 2011)

N162E said:


> Many people seem to consider the above to be "Fact" The reality is that most chargers (Especially the C-9000) can't sense full charge below about 700ma rate. The BC-700/900 chargers sense full as low as their minimum rate of 200ma.



SilverFox is the resident battery expert and moderator here at CPF 

his short post explaining the charge rates for eneloops
​



N162E said:


> Last time I looked Sanyo based their ratings on C/10 charge rates.


this is because C/10 is the industry standard for slow timed charge at (up to) 16 hours 
- all NiMH batteries spec that.



N162E said:


> I like a 500ma rate with my BC-700 and 900s. Works for me.


if it works for you, then it obviously does work.

I was merely informing others of what the battery experts say.


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## cad3 (Dec 14, 2011)

N162E said:


> Many people seem to consider the above to be "Fact" The reality is that most chargers (Especially the C-9000) can't sense full charge below about 700ma rate. The BC-700/900 chargers sense full as low as their minimum rate of 200ma.


 
Where are you getting this information? Source please.

Thanks!


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## N162E (Dec 14, 2011)

cad3 said:


> Where are you getting this information? Source please.
> 
> Thanks!


Personal experience with both chargers. Try it yourself.

With the C-9000 and Eneloops I could not get termination below 400ma at all and full reliability at 700ma and up. This is one of the reasons the C-9000 has max charge cut offs. My C-9000s are older ones, I think the newer ones terminate at a certain voltage and then apply the two hour top off.


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## EfiX (Dec 14, 2011)

I can see no diffrenece between BC-700 to BC-1000 except that the bc-1000 is a little faster... am i'm wrong?
What the recommnded rate of charge to the enloops? 500mah? I got till tomorrow to choose between bc-700 to bc-1000 to C9000. Dammit! ):
Help me


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## N162E (Dec 14, 2011)

EfiX said:


> I can see no diffrenece between BC-700 to BC-1000 except that the bc-1000 is a little faster... am i'm wrong?


You are correct.


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## Wrend (Dec 14, 2011)

EfiX said:


> I can see no diffrenece between BC-700 to BC-1000 except that the bc-1000 is a little faster... am i'm wrong?
> What the recommnded rate of charge to the enloops? 500mah? I got till tomorrow to choose between bc-700 to bc-1000 to C9000. Dammit! ):
> Help me



On the C9000 the default 1000mA is fine for AA Eneloops and 400mA is good for the AAAs.

Charging faster than these rates is not recommended by Sanyo/Panasonic for long cell life.

You could charge them at lower rates too of course and that would be fine (say, 700mA for the AAs and 300mA for the AAAs), but I would not recommend leaving them on the charger after they're "done" for the top off portion of the charge then, because it would likely overcharge the cells somewhat. It's not a huge issue at all because the top off portion of the charge is at such a low rate (close to 0.1C/h for the AAAs), but for best practices this is what I recommend.


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## EfiX (Dec 16, 2011)

Great so BC-900/1000 is out. 
Wrend thank you for the info
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/member.php?156139-Wrend
So we have only BC-700 VS MAHA C9000
What to choose and why? BC-700 is much more cheaper...


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## lwien (Dec 16, 2011)

EfiX said:


> Great so BC-900/1000 is out.
> Wrend thank you for the info
> 
> So we have only BC-700 VS MAHA C9000
> What to choose and why? BC-700 is much more cheaper...



See post #2


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## EfiX (Dec 17, 2011)

They are almost the same but i think i would go over the C9000, without any important reason except the 3 years warranty
which charger do you have?


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## TakeTheActive (Dec 17, 2011)

*SLOW Charge Rate Is Not Always BEST Charge Rate!*



N162E said:


> ...*The BC-700/900 chargers sense full as low as their minimum rate of 200ma*...


Not true. See my tables (in LINK).



N162E said:


> ...I like a 500ma rate with my BC-700 and 900s...


Please try this experiment:
.
*SLOW Charge Rate Is Not Always BEST Charge Rate!*​


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## lwien (Dec 17, 2011)

Bottom line to all this regarding the BC-700 and Eneloops is this, as far as I am concerned. 

I have been using the BC-700 to charge AA Eneloops at 700ma when charging two at a time and 500ma when charging 4 at a time due to the close spacing between the batts. On AAA, I will charge at 500ma when charging two at a time and 200ma when charging 4 at a time. I have been doing this for over a year now. I have NEVER missed a termination, and the batts have ALWAYS left the charger just slightly warm to the touch. 

Like I've said previously, the BC-700 has worked flawlessly with my Eneloops since day one. Now, with that said, if I had older batts in questionable condition and they were not Eneloops, I would be a bit more concerned as I think in that circumstance, the C-9000 may be a bit more reliable.


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## bruintennis (Jan 7, 2012)

Great thread. Thanks for all the great info and I'm thinking of buying a new charger and based on what I've read on CPF, it looks like it'll be the C-9000. Cheers!


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## StuMorri (Jan 8, 2012)

Wrend said:


> What I don't like most about the C9000 is that it goes to a default charging mode after a power failure. I built a relay box of sorts with a reset button so that the power to the charger stays off after a power failure until I manually reengage it.



Good idea. Here's what I've always done: the smallest of Walmart's UPSs is about $40, and is really too small to be good protection for PCs. It works great for small battery chargers. The addition of line/noise filtering and lightning protection doesn't hurt either. Mine has gone strong for over five years and has finished sophisticated smart-charges, when I came home to find lights out. Plus, the internal storage battery is an easy dropout and replace at Batteries Plus, around the corner.


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## DisrupTer911 (Jan 8, 2012)

Couldn't you use the discharge/refresh of a bc-700 to break in eneloops?


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## Wrend (Jan 8, 2012)

I think cycling the cells in general helps.

The break in function on the C9000 does a 0.1C/h 16h timed overcharge on the cells to help reactivate their internal chemistry. It then discharges them at 0.2C/h down to 0.9V and measures their effective capacity in mAh, then charges them up again in the same previous method.

I discharge the cells first before running a break in on them so I'm not over-overcharging them.

Eneloops don't actually really need to be broken in. It can help their performance a little, but it isn't all that necessary.

The main reason I use the break in function on the C9000 is to do a standardized capacity test on my new cells to match them up with each other for my series cell sets.


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## N162E (Jan 8, 2012)

DisrupTer911 said:


> Couldn't you use the discharge/refresh of a bc-700 to break in eneloops?


Yes the BC-700/900 will do the job just fine. An easier method is to just use the cells out of the package, after a few usage cycles they will be real close to if not equal to a formal Break-In. (Capacity wise)


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## Wrend (Jan 8, 2012)

StuMorri said:


> Good idea. Here's what I've always done: the smallest of Walmart's UPSs is about $40, and is really too small to be good protection for PCs. It works great for small battery chargers. The addition of line/noise filtering and lightning protection doesn't hurt either. Mine has gone strong for over five years and has finished sophisticated smart-charges, when I came home to find lights out. Plus, the internal storage battery is an easy dropout and replace at Batteries Plus, around the corner.



Good deal for $40.

Since the C9000 can run off of 12VDC Pb, another option might be to get an inexpensive maintenance Pb charger and a 12V Pb battery.


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## DisrupTer911 (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks for the info. 
It appears according to my bc700 that my cells are all at 2000mAh give or take 100mAh on the screen.


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## bruintennis (Jan 8, 2012)

I took the plunge and bought a Maha C9000 for my eneloops. It should be delivered by wednesday, January 11th!


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## Wrend (Jan 8, 2012)

Just this last Friday I got my second C9000 and some more AAA and AA Eneloops.

Let us know if you have any questions. They are a great combination together.

Here's a link to a post I made that generally describes how I use my C9000s and Eneloop cells: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ing-all-over&p=3828030&viewfull=1#post3828030 How I go about using the chargers might not be practical for the average user, but it should give some ideas about different options that are available, and in part what goes into properly maintaining your Eneloops.


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## jayflash (Jan 9, 2012)

My five year old BC-900 has only given my one *consistent* problem ... it "knows" which mode or status I want and skips over it several times. For example, if I want to read capacity, the display will indicate all other readings except that one. No matter if it's voltage, time, or the chg/dischg capacities, it will take several "rotations" through the menu before displaying the one I want. Same with setting the rates ... if I want 350mA, it will display 100, 250, 500, 1000 etc. but NOT 350. No kidding!! Which ever setting I want it will avoid that ONE. That's too bizarre, but the darned thing acts possessed. This happens so often I just ordered the Maha C9000.

Each charger has advantages and I will use the BC-900 when I want the same action on all four slots, due to quicker programming. The BC-900 has been accurate and hasn't given me any other problem -- except that Murphy invaded its controller.

Two questions: at 1000mA charge rate, the BC-900 will continue to trickle charge at 60mA forever. Is that too much? I do use a back up timer if I can't get to the charger for more than about 8 - 12 hours.

Are UPS units such as the APC brand which has as stepped output safe for all electronic power supplies? My DMM reads the stepped output as 240Hz rather than the actual 60Hz. Was it the older square wave outputs that weren't good for some devices?


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## lwien (Jan 9, 2012)

^^ LaCrosse should add that as a bullet point on their spec sheet-----"It knows what you're thinking".


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## jayflash (Jan 9, 2012)

Funny, but after I posted, the darned thing was a perfect machine. Unreal. Am I pressing the buttons a particular way that influences the charger? That's hard to believe ... then again, there are supposed to be several "parallel dimensions". ?


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## illumiGeek (Jan 10, 2012)

If you want a good, simple charger, I'd go with the Maha MH-C801D. It's an 8 cell, independent channel charger for AA & AAA batteries. It has only 2 buttons (Soft and Refresh), no menus, and a simple display that shows charging, error or done status for each battery. The default charge rate is around 1C for Eneloops (AA=2000mA, AAA=700mA) for a 1 hour charge. A single press of the "Soft" button reduces that to 0.5C (1000/350) for a 2 hour charge, which is what I usually do. If you want to Recondition/Break-In cells, just hit the Refresh button.

One press of the Soft and/or Refresh button will set that for the 1st cell in the charger, and any subsequent cells that are inserted. It even has a little microswitch in each battery compartment that trips when an AAA cell is inserted, so it will automatically change the charge rate for AAA, unlike the "Smarter" Maha/LaCrosse chargers, which have to be manually set for AAA cells!

So you just pop a cell in, press Soft and/or Refresh, then load up as many cells as you want (up to 8). Couldn't get any easier! I absolutely love this charger! You can even swap out cells that are finished, and the new cells will start charging/refreshing with the settings currently in use (unless you remove all cells, which resets the default fast charge mode).

BC900/9009 vs C9000
As for the LaCrosse BC900 & BC9009 vs the Maha MH-C9000, I have all of them. Well, HAD all of them, because my BC9009 experienced the infamous melt-down, so now I just have the BC900, which hasn't melted yet (knock wood). I have used both the BC900 & C9000 extensively. It does take a few more button presses to operate the Maha C9000 *sometimes* (see below), but It really isn't that big of a deal. The C9000 display is bright (it makes a nice light light), clear, and tells you exactly what you are doing, so it's quite easy to set. And as others have already mentioned, the default is perfect for AA Eneloops.

So let's compare the # of button presses for the common operation of charging 1-4 Eneloop AA cells at the recommended 1000mA rate.

Maha MH-C9000: Pop in 1-4 AA Eneloop cells and walk away!

LaCrosse BC900: Pop in 1-4 AA Eneloop cells, then press the charge rate button 4 times to set the optimal 1000mA rate.

So let's see... that's FOUR button presses for the "easier" LaCrosse BC900, and NONE for the "difficult" Maha C9000. Hmm... must be that "new math" I keep hearing about, because it looks to me like the Maha C9000 is actually easier.

And what about the LaCrosse BC9009? Well, you pop in 1-4 Eneloop AA cells, press the charge rate button 4 times, then get out a fire extinguisher and sit there while the batteries are charging, hoping that it won't catch on fire...

Maha still seems easier to me. :nana:

The 8-cell Maha MH-C801D is my "go to" charger of choice, due to its simplicity and capacity. But, unlike the BC900/C9000 it cannot do different things to cells in different bays (other than altering the charge rate for AA/AAA, which it does automatically). Then again, how often do you need to charge one cell, while breaking in another cell, while discharging a 3rd cell, while testing a 4th cell. Okay, here on CPF I'm sure there are at least a few of you who do that a lot, but the rest of us pretty much just charge or refresh all the cells in the charger 99% of the time.

For Eneloop AA cells, the Maha C9000 is as simple at it gets. Just pop the cells in and they charge at 1000mA (0.5C). The C801D does require a single button press to set the "Soft" rate of 1000mA, but with its 8-cell capacity I find that a worthwhile effort. And if I need a bunch of batteries charged in a hurry, I can skip that button press and have 8 cells ready in an hour.

Wow, this turned out to be more than I thought I had to say. Well, I hope it helps someone.

One final note: The somewhat infamous LaCrosse BC900/9009 have been discontinued and replaced by the BC1000, which has some significant differences in its circuitry to (supposedly) correct the thermal runaway problems of the earlier models. Other than that, they have the same features. The BC900/9009 used to be cheaper than the Maha C9000, but that has changed, and according to the current prices on Amazon, the LaCrosse BC1000 is more expensive than the Maha MH-C9000.

Aloha, Tim


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## dragosios (Jan 10, 2012)

MH-C9000 can be even solar powered, with low-power solar cell, a regulator and an UPS VRLA lead-acid battery.
You can size the solar cell according to your needs, meaning how many cells you charge daily.

I do that with a hobby charger and MH-C9000, so that I recharge all my cells with energy from the sun.

P.S. And that will make your charger "green"


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## illumiGeek (Jan 11, 2012)

Anyone tried one of these?

Titanium Smart Fast 16 Bay Ni-MH AA/AAA Battery Charger AC 100-240V + DC Adapters MD-1600L

16 channel smart charger!! Yea, baby!

Technical Details

* Backlit LCD indicates charge level, Integrated Battery Conditioning; discharge and charges your batteries at the press of a button restoring your batteries to their optimal condition and eliminating any memory effect.
* Micro Pulse Charging ensures the fastest, coolest and most efficient possible charge enhancing battery life.
* Genius Battery Protection - Negative Delta V (-?V) Voltage Charge Termination, Fail Safe Timer & Thermal Protection Charge Termination.
* Short Circuit & Input Voltage Detection/Protection, Reverse Polarity, Alkaline Battery & Defective Battery Detection/Protection.

I'm tempted to try one, but I'm currently unemployed, so I have to try and control myself.


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## bruintennis (Jan 11, 2012)

Received my Maha Powerex MH-C9000 charger today and have started to charge my eneloops (AA then AAA) on it. It's like night and day after using a Lenmar Pro99 that doesn't have a readout to tell you what it's doing (in addition to not being a smart charger). I'm going to love having the C9000! Cheers!!!


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