# L35 build and performance discussions



## BVH (Feb 23, 2009)

Here's a thread for discussing build characteristics and performance of the L35 as we get these little gems over the next week or so.

I'm really looking forward to the rubberized coating. I love the feel and look of rubberized coated products. They just feel good in the hand.

I'm anxious to see how the extra 5 Watts of power "combined with the new reflector" affect perceived overall output as compared to the N30.

And of course, the extra run time and ultra-low self discharge of the Lithium pack.

The car charger is an extra bonus.

There's a new thread on Marketplace with info.

Please remember, no sales talk here at all.


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## Richie086 (Feb 23, 2009)

BVH said:


> I'm anxious to see how the extra 5 Watts of power "combined with the new reflector" affect perceived overall output as compared to the N30.


 

Hey BVH,

In addition to your questions and comments, with all the POB's floating around the forum, I'd love to see how the L35's new 35w 4200k and redesigned reflector fairs against a POB modded with a 4300k. That should make an interesting shootout :touche:


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## BVH (Feb 23, 2009)

Certainly for throw, the modded POB should easily out-throw the L35. I look at the N30's and the L35 as true "work lights". Most of my HID's are for fun and show. However, my N30's have been true work horses and I actually use and abuse them. I plan on the same use for the L35 and am glad to see Matt indicate the reflector is designed for a blending of throw and flood. Makes for a better work light.


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## Superhenrik (Feb 23, 2009)

BVH I agree that the N30 is a true work horse. I just love the combination with HID and floody Leds :twothumbs I just hope that the leds on the L 35 will shine for hours and hours after the Hid have expired, just that they do on the N 30 (can there be a difference due too the battery change too Li-Poly?).


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## Patriot (Feb 23, 2009)

I agree with BVH about the POB having better throw but I also consider it too large and heavy for most carry around "worklight" purposes. Tail standing it in a garage or shed would be fine but for hiking a game trail, walking along to repair a fence line or just meandering around camp at night, I'd quickly consider the POB clumsy. This is where the N30 shines and the L35 will be an improvement in every category.


There's no reason that the LED array in L35 shouldn't run for many hours after the HID shuts off. The higher capacity should be able to sustain the LED's for at least as long as the N30's NiMH.


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## BVH (Feb 23, 2009)

Yep! Taking the AT 3152 (I still can't get away from calling mine the Amondotech 3152) would be like lugging two laptops around with you as compared to a small, notebook. Even a 4 lb laptop gets heavy after a short time.


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## MattK (Feb 23, 2009)

In an early test we found that once the batteries were too low to fire the HID they could still run the LED's for DAYS.

Internally the L35 is the L35-3162M (NA version) or L35-3162U (EU version) FWIW.


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## mtbkndad (Feb 24, 2009)

Richie086 said:


> Hey BVH,
> 
> In addition to your questions and comments, with all the POB's floating around the forum, I'd love to see how the L35's new 35w 4200k and redesigned reflector fairs against a POB modded with a 4300k. That should make an interesting shootout :touche:



This was all done before in the link below.
Just remember the the AI is the POB with a 4200K bulb.
Also remember that the "Secret 35 watt" was a prototype that will not be in the US that had the L35 bulb reflector and ballast.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/199730

I will mention once again DO NOT expect the L35 to be significantly brighter then the N30, if at all.
The N30 became "30" because driving these 35 watt bulbs at anything lower was not producing good results. At approximately 30 watts the bulb is now driven enough to achieve the surface temp necessary to work properly. The original hand made prototype was driven at 24 watts. BVH and myself are the only CPF members that have ever seen that model in operation.
Because I own it and he was the only one I trusted to see it way back then  .
The L35 is NOT overdriving the bulb so it will not be appreciably hotter and therefore will not be significantly brighter. The reflector makes more difference.
There is also a + or - 200 lumen variation from bulb to bulb that will have more effect on the light output then the difference in wattage between the N30 and L35.


So be fore warned for the umpteenth time. 

If some of you have a N30 with a really good bulb and get an L35 with a decent bulb.
Your N30's will very likely look brighter.
Also remember that HID's have a break in time so those of you that use your N30's regularly will be comparing a broken in HID bulb with a non- broken in HID bulb.

I have said MANY TIMES the improvements in the L35 are not light output, but ALL of the other things that Matt was willing to do that he listed in the first post in the marketplace thread.

Matt did a fantastic job and I don't want him to have any heartache because of light output when I have been stating this information from the VERY BEGINNING with the very first N30 and L35 prototypes and even in the VERY FIRST announcement thread where the N30 prototype actually very slightly out peformed the L35 prototype for total light output and throw. That original announcement thread was posted nearly 2 years ago, "03-10-2007, 09:39 PM". See for yourself below-

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/156617

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Patriot (Feb 24, 2009)

If it's ok to use your pictures mtbkndad.... I'll post them together for viewing simplicity.

N30






Mystery light with L35 reflector and bulb





POB









AT 3152. (4200K POB) 


The POB does very well when comparing throw but the N30 and L35 have more useful beams imo.


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## mtbkndad (Feb 24, 2009)

Patriot36,

That is fine, but could I inconvenience you a little further.
In that same thread is an Amondotech Illuminator 4200K pic. It is quite a bit farther down the list because it was one of the best throwers.
Could you add that?

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Patriot (Feb 25, 2009)

Yes I sure can. I saw it down there but I know it's rare compared to the POB. It is valuable for showing the output difference between 4200K and 6000K though, isn't it! 



EDIT: Ok, it's added


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## mtbkndad (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks Patriot36,

I don't know if Matt will carry them anymore, you are right about the value of the shots for people doing 4200K or 4300K mods on POB's. To me, the AI's were worth the difference in price just to get the better bulb since Amondotech had an exclusive on the 4200K bulb version.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## SwatDude (Feb 25, 2009)

Just got my tracking number for my first HID, the L35. Could someone please tell me how hot these lights get. Could I use this for an area light/spot for an extended period of time when the ambient temp is up around 90 degrees? Yes it stays that hot here during Phoenix at night and I wondered if I could use the light for night shoots (rifle, not photo).

I also read where the Lithium Ion batteries are not good for higher temperatures. Can anyone tell me what the temp rating on the battery is?


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## Patriot (Feb 25, 2009)

SwatDude said:


> Just got my tracking number for my first HID, the L35. Could someone please tell me how hot these lights get. Could I use this for an area light/spot for an extended period of time when the ambient temp is up around 90 degrees? Yes it stays that hot here during Phoenix at night and I wondered if I could use the light for night shoots (rifle, not photo).
> 
> I also read where the Lithium Ion batteries are not good for higher temperatures. Can anyone tell me what the temp rating on the battery is?




There are no temperature or extended runtime issues. Yes you can leave it running without any problem. The 35W HID is a very light load for li-po and they were designed to run at much higher discharge rates. This light isn't even going to cause the battery to warm up.

Just don't leave it in the 175 degree car, fellow Phoenician


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## Phaserburn (Feb 26, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> Also remember that HID's have a break in time so those of you that use your N30's regularly will be comparing a broken in HID bulb with a non- broken in HID bulb.


 
I wasn't aware that HID bulbs benefited from breaking in. How long does it take for optimal performance? What is happening to the bulb?


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## Flick (Feb 26, 2009)

Just got my two L35's. Is it dark out yet? Can not believe how small and light(wt), wonderful light w/o even turning it on yet!!!!!!!!!!


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## mtbkndad (Feb 26, 2009)

Flick said:


> Just got my two L35's. Is it dark out yet? Can not believe how small and light(wt), wonderful light w/o even turning it on yet!!!!!!!!!!



Yeah Li REALLY drops the weight, the prototype and 'secret light' are only 3lb 1oz.
I am curious to weigh my L35 when it arrives to see what difference the upgrades made to the weight.

Take Care,
mtbnkndad :wave:


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## Patriot (Feb 26, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> Yeah Li REALLY drops the weight,




You mean "po" really drops the weight.....:nana:




Can't wait to hear your thoughts Flick!!


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## PhantomPhoton (Feb 26, 2009)

Good to see they're finally here!
Too bad my money is required elsewhere. Maybe I'll be able to pick one up later on in the year.


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## Flick (Feb 26, 2009)

Well its dark, the battery is full. Being new to GOOD lights and not being impressed very easy, the L35 is just what I hoped for. I am impressed. It is a good all around light for me. I did have a job getting battery out, I hope that is just being brand new. I could unlock and pull battery out but the twist takes alot of effort. Some type of lube might be needed but I will wait to see if it gets easier or others come up w/fix. I am "hooked" and will surely invest(waste) $ on other lights but the L35 will be always close. I am beat from pouring concrete or I would play more. I live in a city and can not fully test tonight.


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## PsychoBunny (Feb 26, 2009)

Flick said:


> Well its dark, the battery is full. Being new to GOOD lights and not being impressed very easy, the L35 is just what I hoped for. I am impressed. It is a good all around light for me. I did have a job getting battery out, I hope that is just being brand new. I could unlock and pull battery out but the twist takes alot of effort. Some type of lube might be needed but I will wait to see if it gets easier or others come up w/fix. I am "hooked" and will surely invest(waste) $ on other lights but the L35 will be always close. I am beat from pouring concrete or I would play more. I live in a city and can not fully test tonight.


 
Congrats! sounds like your the first happy customer to post.

I cant wait to see how well this thing really throws.

Because of the small size of the reflector compared to other HID's, I dont expect
much throw. I hope I'm pleasantly surprised.


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## mtbkndad (Feb 26, 2009)

Patriot36 said:


> You mean "po" really drops the weight.....:nana:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No either Li-Ion or LiPo

both are much lighter then NiMH. Remember I have the only original working prototype with Li-Ion. 

Take Care,
mtbknad :wave:


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## MattK (Feb 26, 2009)

2lb 13.5oz - 10oz lighter than the N30 IIRC.


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## mtbkndad (Feb 27, 2009)

MattK said:


> 2lb 13.5oz - 10oz lighter than the N30 IIRC.



:huh: :huh: :huh:
Wow, Now I really can't wait to get mine and see if my fishing scale reads the same.

Lighter, stronger, more features.
A dream come true.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BVH (Feb 27, 2009)

Hey Daniel!:wave:


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## Patriot (Feb 27, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> Remember I have the only original working prototype with Li-Ion.




oh...lol. I forgot that you had the li-ion orig. Now it makes sense.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 27, 2009)

Got mine!

Took significantly longer than 6 hours to charge, though. The charger has output of .8A, so I'm assuming it would be more like 8 hrs for a full charge.

Only got to play with it for a few moments this morning; a more extensive run will come tonight. After trying it out for a couple of mins to check output, color, beam, etc etc, I then switched it off. The battery meter then showed only 1 green led for "80% charge" instead of the 2 it showed before I turned it on (for 100%).

Is this typical of the meter's functionality? Does the battery need a few charges before being in full shape?

In my very limited exposure, I have to say I love the wider beam and nice warm color!! I do like the build quality and texture of the casing, too.


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## nein166 (Feb 27, 2009)

I have had the same experience as Phaserburn on the battery charge and indicator lights. I'm sticking it back on the charger while at work tonight for a few hours. I only gave mine ~8 hours and didn't register a full charge (only one green lit). But the holding charge it arrived with was only the Red LED so maybe it has more to go. 15v at .8A seems like a trickle for this pack. I tought LiPo could take a Higher Charge so why the low amp supply? 

I read the manual and it said the car charger would make the pack hot to touch. I'm guessing the car charging plug lets the built in charger use as much amps as it can handle. And not to charge without the engine running. 

I am wondering if this pack can be wired to a 12v 5A regulated power supply for 110v. That should bring down the charging times.


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## BVH (Feb 27, 2009)

If my Batterystation 14.4, 6400MAH pack is representative, they emphatically state not to charge over 1C, preferably less. But the .8 AH does appear to be a trickle charger for the L35.


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## MattK (Feb 27, 2009)

The first charge definitely takes the longest - that's why there is that STOP and read the instructions insert - you need to fully charge the battery before use.

Remember that while 5.6/.8 = 7 you're never really emptying a li-ion pack because of the PCB cutoff. 

Regarding battery status light the power level check works on voltage so even a few minutes of use will take it below 100%. The 100% was set high intentionally because it's a li-ion chemistry it will do best if you charge it after every use - like a cell phone or laptop. The 80% doesn't mean it's at "80%" it means that it's around 80%~96%.

I'll discuss higher charge rates with the factory. For now I discourage any and all experimentation with other chargers.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 27, 2009)

MattK said:


> The first charge definitely takes the longest - that's why there is that STOP and read the instructions insert - you need to fully charge the battery before use.
> 
> Remember that while 5.6/.8 = 7 you're never really emptying a li-ion pack because of the PCB cutoff.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks, Matt. Ah, good to know. That makes more sense now. I left mine on the charger until the fully charged light turned from red to green before trying it out.

Looking forward to using my L35 tonight for a longer run outdoor, 30 mins or so.


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## Patriot (Feb 27, 2009)

I'm excited to hear people are receiving their lights. I cant wait to hear the stories and see some beamshots. Very cool!

Hopefully the charger situation will be improved because a .8 amp charge is failing to take advantage of one of the best things about li-po. A good 3.0amp charge would still "baby the battery" while providing acceptable charge times. Maybe the 12V charger is the key for now but I'd really like to know how many amps it's putting into the battery also.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 27, 2009)

Patriot36 said:


> I'm excited to hear people are receiving their lights. I cant wait to hear the stories and see some beamshots. Very cool!
> 
> Hopefully the charger situation will be improved because a .8 amp charge is failing to take advantage of one of the best things about li-po. A good 3.0amp charge would still "baby the battery" while providing acceptable charge times. Maybe the 12V charger is the key for now but I'd really like to know how many amps it's putting into the battery also.


 
A 3A charger would be sweet!

How many hours use does an HID bulb need to be broken in, and what are the benefits? What happens?


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## PsychoBunny (Feb 27, 2009)

Patriot36 said:


> I'm excited to hear people are receiving their lights. I cant wait to hear the stories and see some beamshots. Very cool!
> 
> Hopefully the charger situation will be improved because a .8 amp charge is failing to take advantage of one of the best things about li-po. A good 3.0amp charge would still "baby the battery" while providing acceptable charge times. Maybe the 12V charger is the key for now but I'd really like to know how many amps it's putting into the battery also.


 
Yeah if this is as nice as I think, it will eleminate having to lug a big
heavy HID spot around.
I wonder how hard/easy it will be to replace the lamp for future upgrade,
or replacement!?


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## Patriot (Feb 27, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> A 3A charger would be sweet!
> 
> How many hours use does an HID bulb need to be broken in, and what are the benefits? What happens?




From what I understand from reading and have also witnessed in the automotive industry. True "break in" or color shift doesn't happen until the 100-500 hour time frame when the color shifts upwards slightly (200-400K and is then maintained throughout most of it's 2000-3000 hour life expectancy. 

Initial break in occurs during the first few tens of hours where the bulb produces slightly more light after it has been "run-in" some. After about 200 hours the bulb will slowly produces slightly less light output so that at 2000 hours it producing 70-75% of what it did when new. 

Not all bulbs have the same behavior and Philips and Osram bulbs color shift at different rate. I understand that the Phillips bulbs might have a greater color shift possibly 500-700K as they get older. The amount of shift is also dependent upon the original spec of the bulb. Philips 5000K lamps go virtually their whole life span without any significant color shifting. 

In any case, it doesn't mean all that much to the guy who uses his spotlight for a couple hours a week other than during the first 10-30 hours where it will likely get slightly brighter.


*Xeray* or others please add to my comments or flat out correct me if I haven't understood it correctly.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 27, 2009)

Ran my L35 for 25 mins tonight. I love it! I've never had a light that had such bright spill for total peripheral vision. And the tint is better than I had imagined.

The batt meter: for some reason, it was down to the red led, indicating 25% capacity left. It took 2.5 hrs to recharge it. Perhaps the meter is off? I think the light had a total of 30 mins or so on it when I put it back on the charger.

I hear something thunking inside the head of my light when it is tipped. I am wondering if there is something loose...


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## Patriot (Feb 27, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> The batt meter: for some reason, it was down to the red led, indicating 25% capacity left. It took 2.5 hrs to recharge it. Perhaps the meter is off? I think the light had a total of 30 mins or so on it when I put it back on the charger.




Earlier this week received another 6S 6000mah li-po pack that I run in one of my RC planes. Every time I've started operating a new large capacity pack the battery act's a little bit funny at first. This latest pack came out of the plane at 19.0V which means that it was falling below 3.0V during 50-60amp loads. This is not good. When my fully broken in packs come off the plane they're about 22.6V. After each of the 5 cycles that I've put on the battery the finished voltage has been slowly increasing. The flight I did this evening gave me a finished voltage of 22.1V. 

To make a long story short. It seems like these li-po's, especially the larger capacity ones, take 5-10 cycles to really perform like they're supposed too. Maybe the L35 battery meter will be more consistant once the battery settles in. I would just avoid running the battery down more than half way until you get several partial charge/discharge cycles on it.


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## nein166 (Feb 28, 2009)

Here is a link to my album of L35 Pictures
I will do some beamshots up against the EZNite and hopefully the N30 and other bright lights, but first I need to go somewhere dark...

http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/nein166/TitaniumInnovations L35/

Use password CPF2009

I noticed that TitaniumInnovations.com is underway and hope they put up some good content when the site is done.


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## nein166 (Feb 28, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> I hear something thunking inside the head of my light when it is tipped. I am wondering if there is something loose...


 
I too have this feeling of a part clinking around but I need to flip the light over 360. It doesn't sound like it can move freely about the light. I'm wondering if its a washer around the reflector as it is coming from the neck. But I don't feel the need to open the front since it doesn't effect the operation of the light.


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## Patriot (Feb 28, 2009)

nein166 said:


> Here is a link to my album of L35 Pictures
> I will do some beamshots up against the EZNite and hopefully the N30 and other bright lights, but first I need to go somewhere dark...
> 
> http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/nein166/TitaniumInnovations L35/
> ...




Great pictures. You made me feel like I just opened one up myself.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 28, 2009)

Patriot, thanks, I'll be giving that a try. Nein, I think you described the noise better than I. It's not a freely roaming broken piece; it's something loose that can rock if the angle of the light is changed as necessary.


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## PsychoBunny (Feb 28, 2009)

nein166 said:


> Here is a link to my album of L35 Pictures
> I will do some beamshots up against the EZNite and hopefully the N30 and other bright lights, but first I need to go somewhere dark...
> 
> http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/nein166/TitaniumInnovations L35/
> ...


 
Your the first to post pics  and they are great! Thanks 

How long did it take for full charge and how long does it take for
the bulb to reach full output after switching on?

Are you saying the battery needs to be primed with several charges
to work properly, or am I misunderstanding your post?

Where you able to evaluate the beam? Are you getting mostly spot
or also alot of spill? How wide is the spot at say, 50 yards? Does the
spill light up the surrounding area, or is the beam tightly focused?

Oops, sorry for all the questions! I guess I'm over anxious :huh:


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## nein166 (Feb 28, 2009)

PsychoBunny said:


> Your the first to post pics  and they are great! Thanks


Thank you and your welcome



PsychoBunny said:


> How long did it take for full charge and how long does it take for
> the bulb to reach full output after switching on?


First time it took 6 hours but give it 8 hours.
The bulb is full at 5sec but the color shifts for 10sec. 
I haven't run it for more than 15min total so its still breaking in for sure. 



PsychoBunny said:


> Are you saying the battery needs to be primed with several charges
> to work properly, or am I misunderstanding your post?


According to Patriot36's research and observations the Li-Po battery needs a few cycles for optimum performance



PsychoBunny said:


> Where you able to evaluate the beam? Are you getting mostly spot
> or also alot of spill? How wide is the spot at say, 50 yards? Does the
> spill light up the surrounding area, or is the beam tightly focused?


No outdoor use yet or comparisons with other HIDs but like MattK and mtbkndad said earlier it isn't going to throw more than the N30. That said I feel it is more of a cone of light than a beam a la BarnBurner



PsychoBunny said:


> Oops, sorry for all the questions! I guess I'm over anxious :huh:


Its all good revel in your passion


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## clone7 (Feb 28, 2009)

Ordered mine last night. Can't wait till i get it. I wonder if it would be okay to leave in my car overnight in the winter and how it handles in the cold.


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## Flick (Feb 28, 2009)

nein166 said:


> I too have this feeling of a part clinking around but I need to flip the light over 360. It doesn't sound like it can move freely about the light. I'm wondering if its a washer around the reflector as it is coming from the neck. But I don't feel the need to open the front since it doesn't effect the operation of the light.


 
One of mine has the clinking, the other does not. Looking at how to seperate the bulb mentions a connector, might be what is clinking. My two showed one amber light(50%) after 30 min. I am going to run them for 15 min and recharge for 10 cycles.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 1, 2009)

Flick said:


> One of mine has the clinking, the other does not. Looking at how to seperate the bulb mentions a connector, might be what is clinking. My two showed one amber light(50%) after 30 min. I am going to run them for 15 min and recharge for 10 cycles.



The bulbs do have auto connectors and they can 'clink' against the reflector depending on how they are put in. I am not saying that definitely is the case, but it very likely is the case.

The reflector is very thick and the connector is a waterproof type auto connector.
I would be inclined to open one up and check. If it just sounds like a faint clink then I may not even worry about opening it up and peeking inside the front.

I will see what mine is like when it arrives.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## FrogmanM (Mar 1, 2009)

Mayo


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## Flick (Mar 1, 2009)

I took one apart and the connector is only loose part. I am in the process of comparing the two I have, comparing output and charging times. One seems brighter and battery took longer to recharge, just switched batteries to see if one draws more. I am following Patriot36 break in schedule, after that I will test total run time. I am still amazed with this light. Wish the diffuser was available.


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## Phaserburn (Mar 1, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> The bulbs do have auto connectors and they can 'clink' against the reflector depending on how they are put in. I am not saying that definitely is the case, but it very likely is the case.
> 
> The reflector is very thick and the connector is a waterproof type auto connector.
> I would be inclined to open one up and check. If it just sounds like a faint clink then I may not even worry about opening it up and peeking inside the front.
> ...


 

This is correct, and it's what caused the clink in mine. After I closed it up, it doesn't clink anymore.


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## BVH (Mar 1, 2009)

Before I left for the weekend, I charged my batt for 14 hours over night - and yes, without ever turning it on at all, believe it or not!. When I went out next morning to push the test button, I noticed two things without having disconnected the charger. I had the far left red led and the next amber led lit up in addition to the red charge led lit. I disconnected the charger and tried the test button. The result was the far left red and second amber led's lit up. No green leds. I fired the light for about 30 seconds, shut down and pushed the test button again. Same result. I then left for the weekend. Got back this morning and noticed that the far left red led is lit with the charger unplugged and nothing on and no test button pushed. Actually, this far left red led has never been not lit. Pushed the test button and no change. I did not fire the light. It's now plugged in again to give it the full 16 hour initial charged as is highly recommended in the instructions. I would think that after 14 hours of charge, I'd have some green leds. We'll see.

Anyone's far left led staying on full time?


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## Patriot (Mar 1, 2009)

That's interesting...14 hours at .5A should have been enough to charge a conditioned li-po pack of 7A capacity or smaller. I say conditioned because I think that's part of the issue people are experiencing. New packs don't seem to hold a charge very well initially and they sag once off the charger. After a few cycles this changes and they only lose about .50-.75V per cell after 24 hours and then hold almost constant for months. 

The only other thing that I can think of is that perhaps the charger is putting less than .5A into the pack. I hope that's not the case because .5A is terribly low to begin with.


EDIT: I guess the other possibility is that the charge indicator just isn't representative of the actual battery status. I also hope that's also not the case but we'll know by the end of the day hopefully.


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## BVH (Mar 1, 2009)

After 15 hours of charging, pack voltage is 11.66. Something's wrong. Charging is occurring as verified by: Charger voltage at the charger pin is 15.38. Plugging in the charger, lights the charging led. Pack voltage rises by .8 Volts, slight warmth at the back side of the pack. I suspect one dead cell.

Add: Charging led finally turned green at 12.03 Volts. Press test button and as expected, only red and amber light up. Battery meter red led on left is still on full time. Unplugged charger, waited 30 seconds, re-plugged. Charging led lit up red but went green in a few minutes.


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## Patriot (Mar 1, 2009)

That would explain things wouldn't it. Sorry Bob. :sigh: 

I was so eager to hear your report too.


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## BVH (Mar 1, 2009)

Did anyone notice the L35's two "on" switches being reversed in operation as compared to the N30? As viewed from behind the light, the N30's led array is switched from the left switch and HID is from the right. My L35 is reversed.


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## PhantomPhoton (Mar 1, 2009)

BVH said:


> Did anyone notice the L35's two "on" switches being reversed in operation as compared to the N30? As viewed from behind the light, the N30's led array is switched from the left switch and HID is from the right. My L35 is reversed.



Oh wow, that's going to be incredibly confusing for me. It took me forever to remember which switch was which on my N30 to begin with. Hope the battery pack issue gets sorted out without further headache.


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## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 1, 2009)

my two pennies..

Got my L35 and spare battery Friday afternoon and put it on charge. By midnight I was ready to play. The charging status light had turned green and I compared it to one of my N30's. I will withold my comments till Tuesday when I meet with mtnbkdad as his L35 will be new out of the box, and my L35 will then have close to 95 hours of continious use.

*Battery Runtimes (easy stuff first)*
I bought an extra battery to replace a dead N30 battery, so I have the luxury of playing with two packs. Both packs were fully charged (green charging status light AND two green battery condition leds [battery test button]
Battery #1 109 minutes 56 seconds, Battery #2 110 minutes 9 seconds. I have repeated the test, and the results nearly identical.​Therefore I conclude that the 110 minute run time is right on the money

*L35 Charging, Power Supply's and Status Lights*
Got 2 L35 batteries, and one factory charger... time to be creative :eeksign:. Not to worry, I found a wall wart with nearly the same specs (15vdc 1000ma) and used it for the first time around on the battery #2. I stayed up all Friday night so by Saturday afternoon, maybe I wasn't thinking so well. I had used up the two L35 batteries, plus two N30batteries , trying to run the light contniously (more on this later). So, 24 hours after their initial charge, both L35 batteries were put back on charge haaving yielded 110 minutes each on runtime. Battery #1 used the factory charger, but battery #2 I decided to use the DC car adapter connected to a 10 am regulated power supply

When I got up at 5 this mornig, I found that I really screwed up. Instead of the L35 charger, I used the N30 charger on the L35 battery Just kidding. Found the battery had green charging status light and two green battery condition leds (this battery ran 109 minutes 53 seconds on second run time test). 

Batttery #2 starts to become more interesting. Green charging status light BUT only red and yellow battery condition leds (not even one green led). Guess what the runtime was ? 110 minutes 6 seconds.

Battery #1 had a voltage of 12.53, and battery #2 12.21. Also, last night before I went to bed at 1130 (batteries had been on charge 10+ hours), both had lights had only the red battery condition led.

So now I not sure what to think. I think the batteries have a charging circuit that will accept just about any input voltage. My regulated power supply is really 13.7 volts / 10 amp capacity. The L35 charger 15v 800ma, the N30 charger 22.11v. I believe the l35 battery condition leds are very inaccurate but the charging status indicator is what you need to worry about.



Close by saying that the L35 will shift color temperature. Out of the box, my L35 was blueer (higher color temp) than my recently acquired Tactical HIID 24 watt, which is way bluer than either N30. After just 10 hours of continious use, the L35 has dropped in color temp and is now "warmer" than either N30

Lastly, the L35 switc are "reversed" as compared to the n30


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## mtbkndad (Mar 1, 2009)

Mr Ted Bear,

The switches being reversed is funny because the N30 switches were reversed from the original green prototype that I showed you .

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BVH (Mar 1, 2009)

I believe I let circumstances lead me to believe the L35 battery was 14.4 nominal. After 15+ hours of charging, my pack voltage was around 12.5 and I had only the red and orange battery meter lights and the charging led was still red. I assumed - the beginning of my error, that since the pack had been fully charged after nearly 16 hours, it should be at or near full voltage and that if I had only 12+, a cell must be dead.

So forget all my posts regarding the battery not charging correctly. I plugged in the charger to top the pack off so I could do a run time test. The pack terminated at 12.08 on my meter.

Doing a run time test now and will report back.


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## stollman (Mar 1, 2009)

Got my L35 this past Friday with a spare battery. The spare looked charged (all green LED's). The battery in the light did not appear charged when I pushed the test button. Swapped batteries, turned it on - no light. The spare battery now appeared to be dead??? Charged both batteries up overnight. All green leds Saturday morning on both batteries.

Used the light for about 45 minutes on Saturday, no probem. Nice color light. When I went to use it again on Sunday morning today - the light did not come on. Battery test showed "dead". I should have plenty more runtime based on specs. I then pushed the test button on the spare (all green leds). I had not used it yet. Switched out the batteries - the light did not come on. Pushed the test button on the spare - it now showed "dead". Hhmm???

Left a message with Mark on what to do. Light seems to work o.k....problem appears to be in the batteries, I think.

I really like the light. It is very light in weight and a nice size. The color is also nice. 

Side Note: I zip tied two key rings onto the handle, so I could attached a should strap. I wish it would have come with these like my Barn Burner or Chinese 35W knock-off. Not a bug deal though.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 1, 2009)

BVH,

I will be very interested to hear how things go with your run time test?

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BVH (Mar 1, 2009)

52 minutes till shutdown. Took the pack out and measured .83 volts. No battery meter red led. Suspecting some cut-out logic still engaged, plugged in the charger for 3 seconds, then unplugged. Battery was at 10.44 and battery meter red led back on. The led array did not work either after cut off. I thought it might be thermal cutoff. Charging the pack again. I'll run a few charges thru before reporting back.


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## Isak Hawk (Mar 2, 2009)

I just picked up the L35 at the post office. It's smaller and not as heavy as I had imagined  It feels pretty sturdy and the surface is nice and "grippy". This is obviously a true workhorse :thumbsup:

This is my first HID and it's pure torture waiting for the battery to become fully charged so I can finally turn it on!


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## Flick (Mar 2, 2009)

I have two L35's run time on both 107 minutes, within 30 seconds.


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## Phaserburn (Mar 2, 2009)

I've been looking for a good way to describe the great output from the L35. I think this sums it up best for me:

It's like 2 lights in one, both on at the same time. Light #1: A super high power incan thrower, on steroids. This represents the center cone & hotspot. Light#2: A Coleman Northstar or Pinnacle propane lantern on high. This best illustrates the flood, albeit a 180 degree one. Total peripheral vision, and damn bright, too.

This is the first light I've seen with this combo of beam attributes.


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## Richie086 (Mar 2, 2009)

BVH said:


> 52 minutes till shutdown. Took the pack out and measured .83 volts. No battery meter red led. Suspecting some cut-out logic still engaged, plugged in the charger for 3 seconds, then unplugged. Battery was at 10.44 and battery meter red led back on. The led array did not work either after cut off. I thought it might be thermal cutoff. Charging the pack again. I'll run a few charges thru before reporting back.


 

Hey BVH,

This week you've received two completely different HID flashlights made by two different companies and both have similar issues :sigh: 

Yet, when I read your posts, there isn't the slightest hint of frustration or aggravation on your part. From what you've posted in the "Oracle" thread, you really do like the challenge of trouble-shooting. 

I need to be more like that. All the power to you and I really hope these issues work out quickly for you and to your complete satisfaction :thumbsup:


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## mtbkndad (Mar 2, 2009)

A quick warning for everybody contemplating using other chargers.
The input voltage that all of the circuitry has been built around is 15V.
Using other chargers could work for the short term but could also cause problems for the long term.

I have a light with a similar Li Ion pack to these LiPo packs.
Similar in that circuitry is in the pack and designed for 15V. 
A few times I used the 18V charger because I could not find the 15V charger.
Now it will only charge enough to run for 5 minutes.



Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BVH (Mar 2, 2009)

On the one hand it's disappointing not to have them working fully. On the other hand, as you paraphrase me in another thread - I love troubleshooting and getting to know the intricacies of the lights I buy.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 2, 2009)

Hi Everybody,

I just got my light and quickly took it apart.
The clinking in some lights is the connectors against the reflector.
The reflector is very thick like I mentioned before so don't worry about it.
If you absolutely don't want to hear it then just get some silicone fusion tape and put it around the connectors so they have a soft high temp outer surface.

Those of you that need to have less spill can easily make a sleeve to go over the head of the light out of cardboard or opaque flexible plastic or rubber. 
An MTB inner tube would work fine and be completely reversible when more spill is needed. Plus with a sleeve you can adjust the amount of spill you do or do not want.

I will not turn mine on until tomorrow night when I get together with Mr. Ted Bear for some photos. Mine will be on for the first time and his will have 90 plus hours by then.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BVH (Mar 2, 2009)

Here's a quick comparison of one of my N30's and my L35. The N30 probably has between 15 and 20 hours on the bulb. The L35 has maybe 55 minutes. Settings: F3.5 & 5 seconds.






N30





L35





L35 on the Left and N30 on the right

It will be fun to see Mr. TB with 95 hours on the bulb and Mtbkndads' short timer


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## Patriot (Mar 2, 2009)

Big difference in color and I can really the the effect of the updated L35 reflector with it's large corona. 

Great shots!


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## BVH (Mar 3, 2009)

On second run time test, pack started at 12.00 Volts a couple of minutes after charger led went green. Got 57 minutes. Pack Voltage 10.92

Seems like I should have a spread closer to 12.3 - 9.0. ?

Mr. TB, did you measure your packs when the lights went off?


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## mtbkndad (Mar 3, 2009)

BVH said:


> On second run time test, pack started at 12.00 Volts a couple of minutes after charger led went green. Got 57 minutes. Pack Voltage 10.92
> 
> Seems like I should have a spread closer to 12.3 - 9.0. ?
> 
> Mr. TB, did you measure your packs when the lights went off?



Nice shots BVH,

I will be bringing a modified N30 that has a 6,000K bulb too. 
Remember the light I showed you at the house that had the pathetic LED's.

That light originally had as 6,000K bulb. I swapped bulbs with an N30 pre-production unit that had a ballast that would shut off after 30 min. So it is now a 6000K N30.

The L35's have 4200K bulbs. You are not seeing a bulb color temp difference.
I know what is going on, but will know say anything till after tomorrow night.

I will also email the manufacturer and get some info.
Plus I will PM you and have you try a very interesting test that I just did .

Mine was going to have 0 hours, but after talking to Mr. Ted Bear tonight I needed to check a few things. It has about 2 minutes.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Northern Lights (Mar 3, 2009)

What needs to be done to mod a N30 to L35?

This would not be CPF unless we talked about taking a perfectly good product and modifying it, now would it.?

So what is the big internal difference between L35 and N30? 

My N30 battery pack went bad very quickly. I got very poor service out of it. I used it off and on for a year or so and recently have used it for long run times. I have run only three full discharge cycles on it and have been trying to revamp an revitalize it using the advance features of the BC-6 charger.
It began loosing run time, I use it on early morning walks. Now although the LEDs indicate full charge if you turn on the N30 is flashes three times and quits. That has just happened and I have not had time to monkey with it to analyze the problem fully but that brings me to the L35.

What is the main internal difference, I should be able to modify the N30 to take the new Lithium pack. 

If it is impossible, maybe I will rebuild the NiMh pack, at the new cost for a replacement pack that is feasable as a project.

I love the lights. How about spare ballasts and bulbs are they available? I am not sure what blew yet.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 3, 2009)

Northern Lights said:


> What needs to be done to mod a N30 to L35?
> 
> This would not be CPF unless we talked about taking a perfectly good product and modifying it, now would it.?
> 
> ...



If you have one of the orignial NiMH packs it will unscrew and you can replace the cells.
(And void any warranty of course.) 
You really need to charge NiMH packs fairly regularly so they do not get too depleted.

Remember I do not work for BatteryJunction so this is info from one CPF member to another.

You will also need to be good at soldering. The screws are under the label. 
If you use a coin you will be able to find the holes under the label.

If it has regular, not one way,screws and has not been glued together. Then take it apart and see if the inside looks like something you would like to tackle.

Since your back is essentially nearly dead anyway you really cannot hurt anything.
If the project is more then you want to tackle then just screw the pack back together.

If you replace cells you must replace them with NiMH. That is what the circuitry inside is designed to charge.

I you plan on removing all of the circuitry and building a Li pack that charges on an independent charger then just be sure to keep the contacts in place and + and - in the right orientation. and use the case as a shell.

Do not go over 14.4V for a Li pack.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## PsychoBunny (Mar 3, 2009)

Got my L35 yesterday 

Unpacked it, and put it on charge at about 5pm. The little red
charging light was on.
I checked it again before I went to bed at 10pm and the red 
light was still on, so I went to bed and let it charge overnight.

When I got up at about 4:30am this morning, I checked it, and
there were no battery indicator lights lit at all.
I thought the green light was supposed to come on!?
I pressed the battery check button, and it told me it has a full
charge!
So, does the green light only stay on for a short time, than go out?
Or is the green light not working?


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## Northern Lights (Mar 3, 2009)

Thanks, yes I will tackle it. It is beyond warranty anyway. 
I have designed and built enough hotwires and LEDS, mag milling machine, pr to bi pin sockets, rechargeable LED lights and other flashaholic endeavors to establish the necessary skill level. 
I was considering replacing the NiMh cells, I could also replace them with Lithium D cells, I think, have not measured the spacing yet but lithium D unprotected cells with a batteryspace pcb would provide 10.8 volts at 5 amp hours and better discharge curve than the 11.1 volt NiMh. That would be 54 watts, 72 if I can get 4 Ds lithium in it. Using the same comparison the currect N30 runs @ 40 Watts of power.


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## Patriot (Mar 3, 2009)

PsychoBunny said:


> Got my L35 yesterday
> 
> Unpacked it, and put it on charge at about 5pm. The little red
> charging light was on.
> ...





Geesh another one acting strangely! The charging indicator operation on the L35 seems to be quite the source of confusion among owners. Does it not come with instructions that indicate how it's supposed to work? So far it seems like only one L35 is behaving as it's supposed to among those who have reported back about them.

No doubt that the L35 is a revelation in the HID world. The features can't be beat for the price and I would eventually like to purchase one. I'll probably need to hold off until there are more good reports about the charging circuit. I'm just not sure how to get around the AC charger though. Sure, I could mod one to use my hobby grade li-po charger but that would void the warranty. One person reported that it charged at .5A and the other .8A @15V. Either way, that's far to slow for this type of battery. It's so slow that even an overnight charge wouldn't suffice to charge a fully depleted pack. I routinely field charge some Li-pos at 1C that have over 100 cycles on them, yet are still going strong. Not saying that I'd want a 1C charger for the L35 because I wouldn't, but one at least 2.5A-3.0A would be great.


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## PsychoBunny (Mar 3, 2009)

Sorry if this has been discused, but I dont see it if it has!! 

There are 2 square buttons, one on either side, rear end of the
unit.
What are they for?
I do not see any mention of them in the manual! 
Are they power switches?


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## Phaserburn (Mar 3, 2009)

PsychoBunny said:


> Sorry if this has been discused, but I dont see it if it has!!
> 
> There are 2 square buttons, one on either side, rear end of the
> unit.
> ...


 
Those are the battery release buttons, IIRC. Pushing them in together allows the battery to be slid out.


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## Isak Hawk (Mar 3, 2009)

So far, I think both of my batteries are doing ok.

At first I thought the battery drained too quickly; going from from both green LED's (100%) to just the red and amber LEDs (50%-79%) after only 10 minutes or so. However, after I let it cool off for a while I checked again and this time the first green LED also lit up. 

Runtime on the first battery was over 100 minutes. I had to leave the room right at the end so I don't have an exact time, sorry


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## mtbkndad (Mar 3, 2009)

Northern Lights said:


> Thanks, yes I will tackle it. It is beyond warranty anyway.
> I have designed and built enough hotwires and LEDS, mag milling machine, pr to bi pin sockets, rechargeable LED lights and other flashaholic endeavors to establish the necessary skill level.
> I was considering replacing the NiMh cells, I could also replace them with Lithium D cells, I think, have not measured the spacing yet but lithium D unprotected cells with a batteryspace pcb would provide 10.8 volts at 5 amp hours and better discharge curve than the 11.1 volt NiMh. That would be 54 watts, 72 if I can get 4 Ds lithium in it. Using the same comparison the currect N30 runs @ 40 Watts of power.




The current NiMH pack is 13.2 Volt.
Just don't go over the 16V max input voltage or you will likely ruin the ballast and or bulb.

You have to remember that the ballast has an input voltage range and target wattage based on the input range. That Ballast will be controlling the watts to the bulb and the bulb and ballast should not be over driven.

That said, you should have incredible run time with a 4 Lithium D setup.
The minimum voltage for the ballast is 9V so your setup should work if space is not an issue.

Could you please PM me with your source for lithium D cells.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BSBG (Mar 3, 2009)

Patriot36 said:


> Does it not come with instructions that indicate how it's supposed to work? .



It does, but they are not very informative: red = charging, green = charged.

Mine arrived today and it is on the charger. After about 2 hrs the pack showed 11.6v and the yellow status light , so I fired it up for about 30 seconds. It was inside, so it just seemed really bright. Up before dawn to check the charge light and try it outdoors.


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## BVH (Mar 3, 2009)

While the guys are doing their shoot, here's some actual test data on the L35:

Input Volts...Start Amps....Run Amps....Start Cycle seconds....Input Watts

11.5...............5.9..............3.4..................11-12....................39.1
12.5...............5.9..............3.1..................11-12....................38.75
13.5...............5.9..............2.8..................11-12....................37.8
14.5...............5.9..............2.6..................11-12....................37.7

To me, this is a fairly tightly regulated ballast. Just 1.4 Watts difference over the Voltage range. As Mtbkndad noted in our conversation just now, the ballast is most efficient at the lowest Voltage.

I can detect no change in brightness or color temp when rolling from 14.5 input Volts down to 10.5 Volts in a fraction of a second.

For fun, the N30

Input Volts...................Run Amps......Start Cycle seconds....Input Watts

11.5.................................3.5....................15....................40.25
12.5.................................3.1....................15....................40
13.5.................................2.8....................15....................41.85
14.5.................................2.6....................15....................40.6

More Watts in this case (IMHO) does not translate into a brighter light. In my shots above, the L35 is illuminating more surrounding foliage and in the very center of the tree, the white line of the trunk is a bit brighter. I believe it puts more measurable light down field.


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## BVH (Mar 3, 2009)

If someone would lend a hand here. Pull the battery out and measure the pack Voltage. The + probe goes in the hole that does not have a rounded metal pin right next to it. The - probe goes in the hole with the pin next to it. However, I don't need it done this way. Instead, I need this measurement: Insert the + probe as described. Put the - probe on the pin itself. What is the Voltage?


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## Northern Lights (Mar 3, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> The current NiMH pack is 13.2 Volt.
> Just don't go over the 16V max input voltage or you will likely ruin the ballast and or bulb.
> 
> You have to remember that the ballast has an input voltage range and target wattage based on the input range. That Ballast will be controlling the watts to the bulb and the bulb and ballast should not be over driven.
> ...


Took it apart and 'am going to start a thread, "CONVERTING THE N30 HID TO LITHIUM" or "CONVERTING THE N30 HID TO 5.0Ah" so we can track my modification here. Glad to hear it will take 16V.

If you take the cap off the battery case you can use it as a cap on the light body and build a 4x D lithium in the light body itself, a permament solution. You can use a www.batteryspace.com pcb and fuel guage and lithium smart charger. This way you get balancing charging and led read outs too.

Currently I use protected D lithiums and take the protection circuits off them for my other builds and add BS pcbs. You can get the D lithium without the PCB too. BS.com has better PCBs to build packs, e.g.: Another M*gCharger 5761, but why 


Those are 5.0 Ah li-ion batteries. I aslo found NiMh sub Cs that are 5.0 Ah also. Those would directly replace the stock sub Cs but with more run time thant the stock light. Lithium has the greates run time at 72 watts. Lithium also is better in cold weather. I often am outdoors in low temperatures.

For the LI conversion a smart Lithium charger would be needed, 14.4V.

I must decide which way to go. With the reported problems in the new lithium light in this thread I think there may be some interest in upgrading the NiMh N30 DIY. 

Lithium Ds I thought everyone, at least all that hang in the LED section, know it is Kaidomain that has both types. Jerry just emailed me he has some inventory.

NiMn 5Ah heavy draw sub Cs are available from our old stand-by supplier, cheapbatterypacks.com

BTW: what is that extra metal tab that rests on a spring plunger by the Negative battery terminal? It isnt a contact. Is the ballast regulating, that is does a slightly higher Vin = >lumens? Is iT brighter or just getting more run time with a slightly higher Vin?

DECISIONS, DECISIONS...
 
 
*EDIT: 12 SUB C BATTERIES WILL FIT BACK INTO THE PACK, SO OPTIONS ARE 3-4 D LITHIUM CELLS INTO THE BACK OF THE LIGHT AS A PERMAMENT PACK OR 11 OR 12 SUB C NIMH PACK INTO THE PACK. *
 
*IF THE ON BOARD CHARGER IS SMART AND WILL CHARGE 12 CELLS I AM LEANING TOWARDS 12, 5000mAh PACK. *
 
*IS THAT CHARGER A SMART CHARGER OR FIXED FOR 11S, 11.1V NIMH???*


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## BVH (Mar 3, 2009)

I believe the spring contact is simply to put pressure against the pack once it snaps in to to keep the tangs engaged. It could also serve to help push the battery out once the tangs are depressed.

Do you see a way that the corresponding metal contact on the battery itself could become energized from within the battery housing?


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## BVH (Mar 4, 2009)

Turns out, there's near battery voltage on pins of at least two L35 packs. Interesting, none of my 3 N30's have any voltage on the pin. However, the L35 runs fine without any voltage supplied to the corresponding spring in the light.


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## Northern Lights (Mar 4, 2009)

BVH said:


> Turns out, there's near battery voltage on pins of at least two L35 packs. Interesting, none of my 3 N30's have any voltage on the pin. However, the L35 runs fine without any voltage supplied to the corresponding spring in the light.


 If I understand correctly, then from what I learned taking apart the N30 pack is the plate that the spring prsses against is not intentionally connected to the terminal but by proximity to the connector which is screwed down in the inside it could be touching and hot on the battery side. That still supports that the spring piston is only for tension. I was baffled why they used a plate on the pack there.


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## BVH (Mar 4, 2009)

OK, where's the pics, Mr. TB and Mtbkndad?? We're used to pics on the same night, maybe not neat and pretty but teasers none-the-same!


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## Flick (Mar 4, 2009)

BVH said:


> If someone would lend a hand here. Pull the battery out and measure the pack Voltage. The + probe goes in the hole that does not have a rounded metal pin right next to it. The - probe goes in the hole with the pin next to it. However, I don't need it done this way. Instead, I need this measurement: Insert the + probe as described. Put the - probe on the pin itself. What is the Voltage?


 
My battery reads 12.63volts in the holes and 12.04 volts using the pin. If the battery iis on charge the pin reads -.86 volts. Any help?


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## BVH (Mar 4, 2009)

Yes, thanks! It appears that voltage measured here is normal.


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## PsychoBunny (Mar 4, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> Those are the battery release buttons, IIRC. Pushing them in together allows the battery to be slid out.


 

Oh, thanks Phaserburn


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## mgarza (Mar 4, 2009)

Can the L35 battery be used in the N30 light? If the L35 battery can be used in the N30 light, can you use the Wolf-Eyes Storm battery charger to charge the L35 battery?


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## mtbkndad (Mar 4, 2009)

The battery Packs can be switched but the you need to use the chargers supplied with each light/battery pack. They have different input voltage requirements.
Also the contacts are different heights, so N30 batteries will work in an L35 but L35 batteries will not always work in an N30  .

I also do not believe Matt is selling L35 packs independent of L35's, but I have not checked the web site either.
Just be warned in advance that the L35 packs do not always make proper contact in N30's.

Added section-
No a Wolf Eyes Storm charger and power supply will NOT work with the L35 battery pack. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## SwatDude (Mar 5, 2009)

Mine was waiting on my front door step when I got home tonight. I immediately plugged it in and started charging. A few questions: the manual says to always keep the battery fully charged. I intend to always charge the battery after use, but will it discharge over time while being stored?? Forgive my ignorance, but are these types of batteries immune to memory so that you could run them for 15 minutes and charge it again and not worry about the battery life?? Please hook the new guy up with some tips on how to get the most longevity out of the battery.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 5, 2009)

SwatDude said:


> Mine was waiting on my front door step when I got home tonight. I immediately plugged it in and started charging. A few questions: the manual says to always keep the battery fully charged. I intend to always charge the battery after use, but will it discharge over time while being stored?? Forgive my ignorance, but are these types of batteries immune to memory so that you could run them for 15 minutes and charge it again and not worry about the battery life?? Please hook the new guy up with some tips on how to get the most longevity out of the battery.




Basically treat it like a laptop battery or cell phone battery.
They don't have a memory. They do hold their charge for quite some time.
If you are like lot's of N30 owners you will find you use your L35 more then you ever thought you would so long term storage becomes less of and issue  .

If I use the light for 5 minutes or so I don't personally go and charge it. Now if I know I may be doing something that will require long runtime then I will be dure it is charged fully in advance. At the same time I have multiple lights and battery packs as backups so it is not a big deal if I misjudge something.

Most of my lights are NiMH so maybe others who have other LiPo lights could explain better. If I missed anything.
Mainly just use and enjoy the light.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:

I hope that helps a little.


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## Psychlone (Mar 5, 2009)

I already ordered my L35, but haven't received it yet. However, would you recommend potential new buyers at the moment to wait just a little bit with ordering an L35 to see if the issues get ironed out? Is there any response from the supplier at all to the issues/questions raised here?


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## Flick (Mar 5, 2009)

Psychlone said:


> I already ordered my L35, but haven't received it yet. However, would you recommend potential new buyers at the moment to wait just a little bit with ordering an L35 to see if the issues get ironed out? Is there any response from the supplier at all to the issues/questions raised here?


 
I bought three lights and one spare battery and all work fine. I think their has been more questions than issues. If you wait the first round of lights might be sold out. Matt(from BatteryJunction) has be addressing all questions until his departure on vaction.


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## Crot (Mar 5, 2009)

Received my L35 yesterday, let in charge for a full 24 hours, and I'm more than satisfied with the output. 

The beam color is leaning toward the green spectrum (I was not expecting that), but it is not a deal killer. Light output is outstanding, throw is excellent. Best of all, it is easy to carry. 

Overall, a very formidable light that appears to be well constructed.


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## cue003 (Mar 5, 2009)

I got mine ordered last night. BVH, you got me a little worried about the whole lack of runtime and the things going on with your battery. I don't have have the patience of you for doing all the trouble shooting and such .. lol ... So hopefully all is well or a refund will be coming my way. 

I got the Polarion PH50 to hold me over. 

Have you resolved it or are you still only getting about 57 min of runtime before shutdown? Wonder if a new battery fixes your issue... Have you tried a different battery yet? 

Curtis


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## Phaserburn (Mar 5, 2009)

I know there is a diffuser lens in the works, but how about an OP reflector? I'd be into that...

Is the diffuser lens a total flooder, like the Xenide diffuser is?


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## Flick (Mar 5, 2009)

cue003 said:


> Have you resolved it or are you still only getting about 57 min of runtime before shutdown? Wonder if a new battery fixes your issue... Have you tried a different battery yet?
> 
> Curtis


 I have four batteries and have had run times of 104 to 107 minutes.


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## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 5, 2009)

Mtbkndad has some great pics in the other thread, so no use duplicating efforts. One thing that Mtbkndad and I had discussed was the initial N30 design with NiMh batteries versus the L35 with LiPo pack. The N30 is 14+ volts while the L35 is 12+, so question was asked does pack voltage make a difference?

Looking at this comparison, doesn't seem to make a difference







However, change the background (colors absorbed and reflected) and you can see a big difference


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## BVH (Mar 5, 2009)

Nothing's changed with my battery issue. IIRC, I seem to be the only one. I've PM'd Matt about a replacement and will wait for his return from vacation. I'm in no rush.


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## Psychlone (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm unenlightened, can you help me understand what's going on? It would appear the N30 is better, or the N30 Battery is better, or is that too one-dimensional?



Mr Ted Bear said:


> Mtbkndad has some great pics in the other thread, so no use duplicating efforts. One thing that Mtbkndad and I had discussed was the initial N30 design with NiMh batteries versus the L35 with LiPo pack. The N30 is 14+ volts while the L35 is 12+, so question was asked does pack voltage make a difference?
> 
> Looking at this comparison, doesn't seem to make a difference
> 
> However, change the background (colors absorbed and reflected) and you can see a big difference


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## SwatDude (Mar 5, 2009)

I think there might be an issue with the charge indicators but that might resolve itself after a few cycles. I charged mine for 15 hours last night/this morning and I only got the red and one amber to light when pushing the test button. My light has been on for 70 minutes so far. I will let you know how long it lasts when it shuts down. This light has a very tight hot spot. I am driving to Tucson tonight so there should be some good dark spots on the freeway to check it out.

Guess it wasn't fully charged... shut off at 74 minutes.

Any idea how long it should take to fully charge the battery from full depletion after a few cycles?


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## BVH (Mar 5, 2009)

I can see where all of this discussion might be confusing to someone new to HID. Both lights have their strong and weak points but both lights are excellent, everyday, throw-around work lights. The N30 uses a higher nominal voltage pack made with NIMH cells which self discharge as much as 1.5% per day. The L35 uses a lower voltage, Lithium-Poly pack which has almost no self-discharge and is very much lighter. The L35 weighs almost 10 oz. less then the N30. The L35 costs more due to the numerous, significant improvements made to it over the N30. The most obvious difference between the two is the color temp of the light. The N30 casts a greenish hue and the L35, a blue'ish hue - relative to each other. This is neither good nor bad. Some of us tend to scrutinize things to death sometimes. I have contributed to this because I have an interest in how things work. But in the end, I'm going to use the heck out of my N30's and L35. If you can afford the L35, go for it. If not, go for an N30. Both are great choices.


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## P1mpMastaMike (Mar 5, 2009)

I got my light yesterday, it took like 10+ hours to fully charge it. 

When I turn the light on, half of the light on the wall has an yellow/orange look to it, while the other half has a blue/white look. After about a 20 minute test with the light, I noticed that if I would spin the light, the yellow/orange tint would always be on the lower half of the bulb.

I turned the light off and I can clearly see a yellow residue that is stuck on just under half of the bulb. What is this stuff? Will it break down in time so that the entire throw is one even color? Thanks 

-Mike


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## mtbkndad (Mar 5, 2009)

P1mpMastaMike said:


> I got my light yesterday, it took like 10+ hours to fully charge it.
> 
> When I turn the light on, half of the light on the wall has an yellow/orange look to it, while the other half has a blue/white look. After about a 20 minute test with the light, I noticed that if I would spin the light, the yellow/orange tint would always be on the lower half of the bulb.
> 
> ...



Those salts belong there and what you are seeing is is a normal part of the break in period for the bulb. It is more pronounced in some bulbs then others.
Just keep using and enjoying the light and the color will get more uniform as it is used.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## mtbkndad (Mar 6, 2009)

Hi Everybody,

I want to clarify something about both the N30 and the L35.

The LED indicators are NOT 'battery charging level' indicators or even 'using light projected remaining runtime' indicators.

The LED's ARE for checking the relative capacity of battery packs that have been sitting around for a while. That is their only intended purpose and they work fairly well for that.

Just remember that if you have either a N30 or L35 and your light has been sitting around long enough to 'drop' one LED. You will not get full run time. If it has been sitting around long enough to be down two LED's you have a few, maybe 10 to fifteen minutes available (just a rough estimate from experience). If it is lower then that you need to charge before using the light.

As a general rule I charge all of my stored lights when the charge level drops one LED. That way I always have a good amount of run time available.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Patriot (Mar 6, 2009)

Mr Ted Bear said:


> Mtbkndad has some great pics in the other thread, so no use duplicating efforts. One thing that Mtbkndad and I had discussed was the initial N30 design with NiMh batteries versus the L35 with LiPo pack. The N30 is 14+ volts while the L35 is 12+, so question was asked does pack voltage make a difference?
> 
> However, change the background (colors absorbed and reflected) and you can see a big difference





Um, that's a very noteworthy difference in performance in my opinion. The whole room is brighter! Just the fact that the difference is visible to the eye/camera at all means that it's clearly producing substantially more lumens. This particular L35 appears to be under driven at 12.6V whereas BVH's L35 seemed to hang with his N30 and probably surpass it in output by some margin. Is this just an example of HID variation that we're seeing?


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## BVH (Mar 6, 2009)

This is interesting because when I had the L35 hooked to my variable power supply and quickly rolled the voltage from 14.5 down to 10.5 or so in a fraction of a second, there was no perceptible reduction in light output nor change in color temp. And the current rose proportionately to the voltage reduction to produce the same Watts consumed. So even if the camera picked it up, it probably doesn't matter in the normal use of the light - that's my take on it.

The camera doesn't lie so I'm going to make an assumption that since the human eye can't measure cumulative light, that the differences shown about are due to cumulative light gathering abilities of the camera over the time exposure.


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## Richie086 (Mar 6, 2009)

What is the warranty on one of these, is it 1 full year?


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## SwatDude (Mar 6, 2009)

BVH said:


> This is interesting because when I had the L35 hooked to my variable power supply and quickly rolled the voltage from 14.5 down to 10.5 or so in a fraction of a second, there was no perceptible reduction in light output nor change in color temp. And the current rose proportionately to the voltage reduction to produce the same Watts consumed. So even if the camera picked it up, it probably doesn't matter in the normal use of the light - that's my take on it.
> 
> The camera doesn't lie so I'm going to make an assumption that since the human eye can't measure cumulative light, that the differences shown about are due to cumulative light gathering abilities of the camera over the time exposure.


 
Another thing that is apparent from the pictures is the super tight hot spot of the L35. Since absolute white is absolute white, the camera probably isn't going to differentiate between a larger less bright hotspot or a smaller brighter hotspot from 15 feet away. The furniture surface is only going to reflect so much light.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 6, 2009)

SwatDude said:


> Another thing that is apparent from the pictures is the super tight hot spot of the L35. Since absolute white is absolute white, the camera probably isn't going to differentiate between a larger less bright hotspot or a smaller brighter hotspot from 15 feet away. The furniture surface is only going to reflect so much light.




Yes, I was surprised when Mr. Ted Bear originally emailed those photos to me.
When we got to real world out door shots the L35 behaved like an L35 regardless of battery pack and the N30 behaved like an N30 regardless of battery pack. 
So the real lesson in all of this is if you want to know how HID's perform, use the outdoors and not living rooms    .

Take Care,
mbkndad :wave:


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## Patriot (Mar 7, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> Yes, I was surprised when Mr. Ted Bear originally emailed those photos to me.
> When we got to real world out door shots the L35 behaved like an L35 regardless of battery pack and the N30 behaved like an N30 regardless of battery pack.
> So the real lesson in all of this is if you want to know how HID's perform, use the outdoors and not living rooms



Man I don't know....if both exposures were the same in those living room shots then it's not going to suddenly jump in brightness because it's been carried outside. Something else must be happening. All I have to go by is that photo which shows the L35 with N30 battery to have a larger, brighter hot spot, corona and the room is brighter too. 

Can anyone do a ceiling bounce test with a light meter and see what the figures are?

In the end it doesn't really matter which is brighter when it comes to practical use but yeah, if it can be determined that the L35 could benefit from more voltage then let it be determined, right?


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## Metatron (Mar 7, 2009)

hmm, Pat, seems to be chalk and cheese right now, if i am not mistaken the L35 isnt performing as expected in those pics, with its intended batts. time will tell i imagine, not unexpected a few bumps


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## mtbkndad (Mar 7, 2009)

One thing I noticed is that the warm up with the 11.1V LiPo Packs is a little slower. The L35 performs just fine as can be seen in the out door shots I posted.

We did have to shoot each of the alternating battery shots twice because of warmup issues. I threw out the dimmer of each of the shots.
I could have easily have accidentally posted either pack as brighter if I had not tossed the dimmer shots. 
Now there are always trade offs will all decisions. Numerous CPF members requested LiPo and Matt concured with that change. 
That switch in turn limited the LiPo packs to 11.1V because of space and size constraints due to the shape of the batteries. The Original Li-Ion packs were 14.4V packs. My L35 prototype with a 14.4V pack was not brighter, but did warm up faster. The switch to LiPo also took about 3oz off of the weight of the light. Take a look at my outdoor shots thread and you will see that the L35 works fine. BVH did some nice beam shots too.

The L35's are performing just fine. Except for BVH,s who seems to have a bad cell in his pack. I was using my tonight for quite some time and am very please with it's light output. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BVH (Mar 7, 2009)

I concur that the L35 is performing as expected, maybe a bit better. Look closely at my shots. The L35, without a doubt, puts more light down field on the tree. Look at the size of the corona on the two lights. The L35's is larger. Look at the small white trunk of the tree in the center of the hotspot. It is slightly brighter in the L35 shot. You need to look close but the differences are there.

I think a lot of my posts early in the thread about my battery issues have sort of slanted the good performance of this light. But it seems like it's just me having an issue. Don't let that sway your thoughts about the L35.


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## SwatDude (Mar 7, 2009)

Okay experts, what is the green liquid inside the bulb. That is what is responsible for the greenish hue at the bottom of the beam. When I turned the light upside down, you could see the green wash down over the beam until it settle back at the bottom. Fabulous light by the way. Once fully charged I did get 111 minutes before shut down. I am a little disappointed in how slow this thing charges though. I don't know much about these things but I would think 4 times the run time would be an appropriate charging time. It took mine over 20 hours to get to a full charge. Will this improve over time??


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## Patriot (Mar 7, 2009)

I thought your L35 did great from the first beam shot compared to your N30. No convincing necessary. Now Mr TB's beam shots have me wondering how much better it would look on 14.4V-16.4V ....and since you have a tripod, camera, higher voltage source and great 'skillz'...


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## Isak Hawk (Mar 7, 2009)

SwatDude said:


> It took mine over 20 hours to get to a full charge. Will this improve over time??


 
Woah! 20 hours?  Mine only took 8 and a half hours (from totally empty, the battery indicator wouldn't even light up).


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## P1mpMastaMike (Mar 7, 2009)

Isak Hawk said:


> Woah! 20 hours?  Mine only took 8 and a half hours (from totally empty, the battery indicator wouldn't even light up).



Yeah, mine too. I thought that with these batteries its not always a good idea to completely drain it. After an almost 2 hour burn time, the light just turned off. I thought I read that when it cuts off, the LED lights will still glow and that your not really draining it all the way. Well, the LED lights would not come on or the battery level indicator. And yes, the charge time is kinda long. (-_-)


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## Isak Hawk (Mar 7, 2009)

I was doing a runtime test, that's why I drained the battery completely (got around 113 minutes btw.).

Here is MattK's quote:



MattK said:


> In an early test we found that once the batteries were too low to fire the HID they could still run the LED's for DAYS.


 
He did say "fire the HID" and not let it run until it shuts itself off. Do HID's require a lot more power to start up than they need to just keep running?


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## BVH (Mar 7, 2009)

Hid's take about 2 to 3 times to current to start. The over-discharge protection circuit should activate when the battery has reached the minimum designed cutout voltage. You should be able to run the HID and/or leds until that circuit cuts off the battery power supply.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 7, 2009)

Patriot36 said:


> I thought your L35 did great from the first beam shot compared to your N30. No convincing necessary. Now Mr TB's beam shots have me wondering how much better it would look on 14.4V-16.4V ....and since you have a tripod, camera, higher voltage source and great 'skillz'...



It won't look appreciably better and you could ruin the ballast and or bulb if things are not done properly, the ballast has a set voltage and the input voltage CANNOT exceed 16V. I made that very clear in previous posts.

Mr. Ted Bear and I had a great talk today. We independently came to the came conclusion in seperate tests. The price to be paid by the 11.1V pack is a significantly slower warm up to operating color temp. Mr Ted Bear said around 3 minutes with the L35. Even in my street shots, I do not think the L35 was on for a 3 full minutes.
It has useable light from right after startup, but the lower voltage input does clearly result in noticeably longer warmup up time for the ballast and bulb to reach it 'running' color temp.
Once again, the light output is useable and nice fairly quick after starting but it takes probably around 2 minutes longer for the color temp to finally settle in. As a result when doing picks it can look like it is ready for a photo when it is not.
Mr Ted Bear is going to do some real interesting tests with numerous lights that he will explain when he is done 
The lights work fine and the LiPo was more desired as a battery pack and requested by numerous people, so that was used. Well the pros of LiPo packs do have costs too (remember law of TANSTAAFL, Ther Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch )
The end result was an even lighter weight light (dropping from 3 lb 1 oz to 2 lb 14 oz); space and shape constraints limited packs to 3 cells 11.1V, the L35's work fine and warm up to useable level fairly quick, but take longer to reach operating color temp.

I must say, for me personally, as an L35 owner that 2 lb 14 oz is just so worth a little longer warm up to full operating color. I never thought I would think of the N30 as heavy.
But when you have a 2 lb 14 oz light available the 3 lb 8oz light seems like a tank    .


Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Northern Lights (Mar 7, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> I must say, for me personally, as an L35 owner that 2 lb 14 oz is just so worth a little longer warm up to full operating color. I never thought I would think of the N30 as heavy.
> But when you have a 2 lb 14 oz light available the 3 lb 8oz light seems like a tank    .
> 
> 
> ...


 
cost L35 - cost N30, lets see now...

$332.95 - $198.95 =$134.00; 2 lb 14oz -3 lb 8oz = 10oz or 0.625 lb;
that is $214.40 per pound for HID :wow:
you bought 10 ounces of HID spot light for $134.00; at $13.40/oz. :lolsign: 
:huh2:​ 

lovecpf​and you too, mtbkndad​​​


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## mtbkndad (Mar 8, 2009)

Northern lights,

When I spent $4,000 on my custom built Titus Motolite in July 2006, for 'only' $2,000 to $2500 dollars more I could have taken 1 more pound off of the bike weight of the bike  .

Don't forget extra run time, longer battery storage while holding charge, stronger ABS, CE & ETL certifications, I believe also thicker lens (I originally specified double thickness though have not checked), improved reflector. SUPER SEXY rubberized Black finish, etc..

Oh yeah this is one sweet light 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BVH (Mar 8, 2009)

IIRC Kobe beef is about the same cost per pound. Once you eat it, it's gone and so is your money!

Let's see....Kobe beef-L35? Kobe beef-L35??


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## Psychlone (Mar 8, 2009)

Does anyone have a good idea for how to mount an N30/L35 in a car or truck 
so it's easily accessible near the driver's seat but still out of the way? 

Perhaps some kind of simple bracket that fits the handle?
Or a Quick Fist clamp that goes around the tubular body of the N30/L35??
Or....?

Update: Checked size of available QuickFists (www.endroad.com) and measured the L35:

*Handlemount:* The L35 handle has a diameter of about 27mm so you'd need the "Mini Quick Fist"






*Body mount: *The L35 body has a diameter of about 86mm so you'd need the "3 inch Quick Fist"





A different option might be to use a fire extinguisher mount. This would also support quick release, and enable mounting in an upright position. Haven't found products that fit yet....


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## Northern Lights (Mar 8, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> Northern lights,
> 
> When I spent $4,000 on my custom built Titus Motolite in July 2006, for 'only' $2,000 to $2500 dollars more I could have taken 1 more pound off of the bike weight of the bike  .
> 
> ...


 
I do not dare make a confession. What if I leave my mail and cpf open?
If SHE reads it I am done.

But we all have our priorities. Strange how similiar they are to everyone that participates in a forum of interest to them.

We have to step back and chuckle and enjoy it, don't we?

Imagine telling the crew at work we buy lumens by the pound?


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## Patriot (Mar 8, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> Northern lights,
> 
> When I spent $4,000 on my custom built Titus Motolite in July 2006, for 'only' $2,000 to $2500 dollars more I could have taken 1 more pound off of the bike weight of the bike  .
> 
> ...





Yeah, definitely many other advantages than just a bit less weight huh!

If you get the chance I'd love to see some pictures of your bike. :wave:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/209273


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## mtbkndad (Mar 9, 2009)

Patriot36 said:


> Yeah, definitely many other advantages than just a bit less weight huh!
> 
> If you get the chance I'd love to see some pictures of your bike. :wave:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/209273



Will do when I get a chance; actually I will put picks up of my Motolite, HPL Alchemy, Specialized Enduro Hardtail, converted to single Speed and my MUNI  .

I must say I am REALLY having a blast with my new L35.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Patriot (Mar 9, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> It won't look appreciably better and you could ruin the ballast and or bulb if things are not done properly, the ballast has a set voltage and the input voltage CANNOT exceed 16V. I made that very clear in previous posts.




4S packs typically settle to 16.4V within a very short time but evidently that's still too much voltage. How about a 4S pack with a peak voltage regulator? Even if it was held to 15V it would still be much better that 12.3V.

Just thinking...:thinking:



Also, can anyone verify if the L35 actually has a "double thickness" front front window compared to the N30?


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## mtbkndad (Mar 9, 2009)

Patriot36 said:


> 4S packs typically settle to 16.4V within a very short time but evidently that's still too much voltage. How about a 4S pack with a peak voltage regulator? Even if it was held to 15V it would still be much better that 12.3V.
> 
> Just thinking...:thinking:
> 
> ...



Once again, the main thing you will be benefitting with a 15V pack is initial warm up to operating color temp.

I really like the light the way it is right now. That sub 3 pound weight is just sooo nice . 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## MattK (Mar 11, 2009)

Heya folks - I'm back. 

Any questions that Daniel didn't answer yet?


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## Patriot (Mar 11, 2009)

MattK said:


> Heya folks - I'm back.
> 
> Any questions that Daniel didn't answer yet?





None from me anymore. 

Daniel, Jeff, Bob and many others have been a wealth of information. 


One suggestion though, I do think that this light needs a faster charger. The .5 or .8mah (whichever it is) seems to be the only real handicap for this package. I don't doubt that many considerations were weighed regarding price, compatibility, performance and perhaps other factors when considering the charger but as a heavy li-po user, there's really nothing to be gained in a charge rate that slow. 

Just my one cent


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## BVH (Mar 11, 2009)

Patriot, are you expecting change from your one cent expenditure???


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## Patriot (Mar 11, 2009)

BVH said:


> Patriot, are you expecting change from your one cent expenditure???



Matt has always been generous. Why not... :lolsign:


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## MattK (Mar 11, 2009)

We're investigating the question of higher charge rates but it would either be a next generation thing or a battery AND charger upgrade; the PCB on the battery pack has a triode that limits input currrent - I'm waiting for the spec on the limit.

You could always buy another battery.


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## Kremer (Mar 11, 2009)

I don't have an L35 but they come with car charger plugs right? Many of us have lab type power supplies, has anyone plugged the pack into a PS set at 14.5V to observe what the charger will actually pull without the low amperage cripple of the wall wort adapter?


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## Patriot (Mar 11, 2009)

> *MattK*
> We're investigating the question of higher charge rates but it would either be a next generation thing or a battery AND charger upgrade; the PCB on the battery pack has a triode that limits input currrent - I'm waiting for the spec on the limit.
> 
> You could always buy another battery.



That's true and a valid suggestion. The only thing that leave me reservation is that if I exhausted two batteries I'd still only be able to fully charge one of them before the next evening's darkness came again. That scenario might be rare, but when I'm up hunting for a week or ten days I'd have two batteries the first night and one every night after that. It's pretty common that I usually kill the N30's batteries early in the evening then revert a POB. 





Kremer said:


> has anyone plugged the pack into a PS set at 14.5V to observe what the charger will actually pull without the low amperage cripple of the wall wort adapter?




I believe BVH has done this and stated that the charge rate was faster. He's having a battery issue though so I'm not sure what the conclusion was.


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## BVH (Mar 11, 2009)

No, not me on the charge rate post above. I ran the light off a PS but have only used the wall wart to charge.


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## Patriot (Mar 11, 2009)

BVH said:


> No, not me on the charge rate post above. I ran the light off a PS but have only used the wall wart to charge.




 oopsy....who was that then? :thinking:

I'll page back through and see if I can find him.


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## BVH (Mar 11, 2009)

Not sure. When I was shopping for my PS, I read where there needs to be some type of diode installed in the output of the PS to use it for charging. Otherwise, when the battery reaches the PS voltage set point, back feed can occur and pop the PS. Never did it because I have a Triton and Schulze and didn't want to risk my PS.


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## Kremer (Mar 11, 2009)

Patriot36 said:


> oopsy....who was that then? :thinking:
> I'll page back through and see if I can find him.




It was Mr Ted Bear here but he diddn't report what current it pulled.

I think optimizing the charger would only take measuring the current it pulls on a stiff regulated 12v source, then finding a wall wort that can deliver about that. ...or wait for the datasheet/specs on the charger circuit itself.


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## Patriot (Mar 11, 2009)

Kremer said:


> It was Mr Ted Bear here but he diddn't report what current it pulled.




ahh, thank you Kremer. Like you said, not current figures though.

Btw, I never learned how to link a single post (where the whole thread page doesn't show) How exactly is that done?


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## Kremer (Mar 11, 2009)

Patriot36 said:


> Btw, I never learned how to link a single post (where the whole thread page doesn't show) How exactly is that done?


Right click on the post number, copy the url, then link to that


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## Patriot (Mar 11, 2009)

Kremer said:


> Right click on the post number, copy the url, then link to that



Thank you sir! :thumbsup:


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## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 11, 2009)

Now what did I do.... Actually, I used a regulated power supply connected to the cigarette lighter charging adapter to charge the L35 batttery. The other stupid mistake I made was to use an N30 wall wart to charge the L35 battery. It is clear that the L35 battery has an internal circuit which regulates the charge rate, so changing the wall wart to a higher voltage (and or current capacity) won't speed things up, and might possibly fry the electronics inside the battery.

I used a Triton to charge the L35 battery, but probably not such a good idea because: a) no way to check individual cells temperature and b) no way to check the individual cell voltages and that they are in balance.

I do not have a means to measue the current output from my ps... I let the magic smoke out it, and really don't have a need to replace it


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## SwatDude (Mar 11, 2009)

MattK said:


> We're investigating the question of higher charge rates but it would either be a next generation thing or a battery AND charger upgrade; the PCB on the battery pack has a triode that limits input currrent - I'm waiting for the spec on the limit.
> 
> You could always buy another battery.


 
How long should it take to charge??? Mine took over 20 hours after running the light to the shut down point. This seems way too long. Eight to 10 hours would seem more realistic in my book.


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## Patriot (Mar 11, 2009)

Mr Ted Bear said:


> It is clear that the L35 battery has an internal circuit which regulates the charge rate, so changing the wall wart to a higher voltage (and or current capacity) won't speed things up, and might possibly fry the electronics inside the battery.




Ok, now we're getting somewhere. The battery has an internal circuit which regulates the charge rate but in actuality it's handicapping the charge rate. All a Li-po pack needs when being charged by and unsophisticated wall wart is to limit the max current to no more than 1C and a battery circuit that allows for cell balancing. 




> Mr Ted Bear
> I used a Triton to charge the L35 battery, but probably not such a good idea because: a) no way to check individual cells temperature and b) no way to check the individual cell voltages and that they are in balance.


So is there also internal circuitry that handles cell balancing in the L35 pack? With a hobby grade battery and charger the cell balancing is handled through the charger's cell balancing port via the battery's cell balancing harness. The pack doesn't have to be balanced every time but it's good to do it occasionally. Never balancing will reduce run-time and battery pack life.


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## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 11, 2009)

Patriot36 said:


> ...
> 
> So is there also internal circuitry that handles cell balancing in the L35 pack? With a hobby grade battery and charger the cell balancing is handled through the charger's cell balancing port via the battery's cell balancing harness. The pack doesn't have to be balanced every time but it's good to do it occasionally. Never balancing will reduce run-time and battery pack life.


 
I have not taken the L35 battery apart, so I do not know if there is or isn't the extra tabs/leads "battery harness" as would be necessary for a cell balancing circuit. I am a newbie when it comes to Lithium but have taken a laptop battery apart only to find individual leads to each cell plus a thermal sensor, so I know there is more to it than just attaching to the "+" and "-". I am hoping that the L35 does have a balancing circuit, in which case I will continue using my Triton for faster charge times, and then on occassion, use the L35 circuit to balance the cells. What is unknown is if applying power direclly to the "mains" might damage the L35 internal circuit


----------



## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 12, 2009)

Previously, mtbkndad had indicated that one difference between the N30 and L35 battery was that it took longer for the lights to reach full operational "color temperature" with L35 battery being only 12.5 volts as compared to the N30 14.5 volts. The question is "how much longer"?

This picture shows startup of N30 using L35 battery
Row 1 0 to 2 seconds
Row 2 2 to 4 seconds
Row 3 4 to 6 seconds
Row 4 6 to 8 seconds
Row 5 8 to 10 seconds
Row 6 add 8 seconds per frame, 0:18, 0:26, 0:34, 0:42, 0:50, 0:58, 1:06 
Row 7 add 8 seconds per frame, 1:14, 1:22, 1:30, 1:38, 1:46, 1:54

So after 1:54 [1 minute 54 seconds] _almost _2 minutes, the n30 has full color.







To conduct this test, batteries were charged full during the day. Before going to bed, I place the lights outside patio. In the morning, the lights are "cold" (about 48 degrees). Lights have not been turned on since the previous morning . 

This one N30 is giviing me a head ache... best test was just over 80 seconds so I am still testing


----------



## Patriot (Mar 12, 2009)

Wow, that makes it easy to see the warm up progression with time.

So I'm guessing the warm up is substantially faster when the N30 is using the N30 battery?


----------



## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 12, 2009)

Yes, the N30 is faster (about 70 seconds) but I haven't gotten the "same" or close to same results twice. That's why I keep doing the test. I am getting to the point where I might just use a video camera, and extract individual frames. (This I know I can do, but it's time consuming). Presently I am using a dslr and computer to control the camera, but haven't really figured out how to set the interval timer program the way I want (3 fps for 10 seconds) then evey 5 seconds


----------



## daveman (Mar 12, 2009)

Anybody find the heat on the collar holding the lense an issue? I did two runtime tests on my L35 in an enclosed room at night time with the room temperature being about 71 degrees and at the end point of shut off (107 minutes) the colloar was HOT! Good thing the LEDs are separately located on the handle.


----------



## mtbkndad (Mar 12, 2009)

daveman said:


> Anybody find the heat on the collar holding the lense an issue? I did two runtime tests on my L35 in an enclosed room at night time with the room temperature being about 71 degrees and at the end point of shut off (107 minutes) the colloar was HOT! Good thing the LEDs are separately located on the handle.




Heat is not an issue with these lights. I have run prototypes for hours on end with successive battery packs in direct sunlight with no problems.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## daveman (Mar 12, 2009)

Thanks Daniel. Anybody knows of another HID light in the same size/weight class that throws farther than the L35?

I'm curious as to how much more I would have to pay for even more throw than what the L35 gives me. Which is impressive, just for the record.


----------



## mtbkndad (Mar 12, 2009)

Patriot36,

When Wayne still owned Amondotech we asked about the packs and the manufacturer said the battery pack manufacturer they were contracting with did say the packs have cell balancing circuitry in them.

Now I have mentioned all along that these packs have the charging circuitry built into them. The N30 and L35 have different circuitry with different input voltage requirements.
Early on with the N30 some people even complained about this.

The N30 needs an 18V DC output and not to exceed 1amp with 600 mA being better.

The L35 needs a 15V DC output power supply and the manufacturer did specifically say that exceeding this will likely damage the internal circuitry.
So the manufacturer really wanted me to emphasize that anybody seeking other power supplies must NOT use a power supply exceeding 15V DC output.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## MattK (Mar 12, 2009)

The N30 uses a linear charger. The L35's use a high frequency charger. It's not just a simple matter of voltage and current.

Please stick to the included charger to avoid risk of damage to the light or yourself.


----------



## Patriot (Mar 12, 2009)

So it needs a "high frequency charger" and we can't exceed 15V DC input voltage. If it meets those two criteria would it then be ok to charge at a current that's reasonable for this li-po pack....say 3ah or around .5C?


----------



## mtbkndad (Mar 12, 2009)

MattK said:


> The N30 uses a linear charger. The L35's use a high frequency charger. It's not just a simple matter of voltage and current.
> 
> Please stick to the included charger to avoid risk of damage to the light or yourself.



Yes but the most IMPORTANT  factor for end users to remember is that the chargers are INSIDE each respective pack. The power supplies are just that,  power supplies that were specifically chosen for the voltage and current requirements of the internal charging circuitry of each model and that is why end users really need to keep what came with each light with each light or NOT blame you if they have problems from switching things around and them mess up the internal charging circuitry in the packs. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## Patriot (Mar 12, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> Yes but the most IMPORTANT  factor for end users to remember is that the chargers are INSIDE each respective pack. The power supplies are just that,  power supplies that were specifically chosen for the voltage and current requirements of the internal charging circuitry of each model and that is why end users really need to keep what came with each light with each light or NOT blame you if they have problems from switching things around and them mess up the internal charging circuitry in the packs.
> 
> Take Care,
> mtbkndad :wave:








So attempting to use one's own charger would be a bit like charging a charger with a charger. This of course won't work.

Problem is, at least from my point of view, I can make the argument that the light is provided with an inferior "charger" which ignores some of the benefits that Li-po technology offers. If the goal of choosing a li-po power source was simply to lighten the L35 and increase run-time then I'd say the goal was achieved while some other li-po benefits were not capitalized upon. The slow charge rate is a huge road block for me. I liken it to a high performance sports car engine with all its inherent advantages only to pair it to a transmission with the final four gear ratios missing. It would go 70mph instead of 180mph. Likewise I liken the slow start up time to a six speed transmission but with first gear removed. Most car folks can relate to that analogy. 

Please understand that I'm not trying to slam the L35 as that's not my intent or frame of mind. My questions are generated more out of curiosity because a big part of me wants to purchase this light. It's got a lot of things going for it plus I highly respect the people who put this project together at all levels. I'm simply trying to understand why certain features weren't implemented even if the difference in cost would have be negligible. For example, a 2.0-3.0ah "internal" charger vs. the .6ah charger? That's one area where the cost difference would not be considerable. 4S battery packs are also not significantly more expensive than 3S packs of the same capacity and max discharge rate. Typically the difference in expense is about 25%. If Titanium's cost on a 3S battery was $40 then a 4S battery would be about $55. A voltage regulation circuit to limit peak voltages to the ballast to say...15V would neither be very expensive. These changes would solve the slow start-up issue as well as the very slow charging time. There remains the fact that there may be physical space limitations on the L35 that I'm not aware of but honestly I can only guess. 

In the grand scope of things I'd rather have an L35 with the improvements I suggested even if it cost CPFers $355 rather than $316.31 but I may be alone in my thinking.


----------



## mtbkndad (Mar 12, 2009)

Patriot36,

I was told by the manufacturer, who asked the engineers for me, that size, shape, and space constraints are what caused the 11.1V LiPo packs to be 11.1V LiPo packs. Regarding your others points I don't know, as I was too busy with "life challenges" last year during that time of the L35 development. 

You could always get an N30, gut the pack and make it into whatever you want it to be.  .

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## Patriot (Mar 12, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> Patriot36,
> 
> You could always get an N30, gut the pack and make it into whatever you want it to be.  .




I had an N30 and then it was adopted by my bro around last September in anticipation of the L35. It was then passed over to my Uncle after my brother decided that he wanted something smaller. Who knows, if I wait a few more months it might come back to me again....:laughing: What's the old saying...."if you love something let it go."


Thanks for clarifying the all of the L35 stuff Daniel. I seriously appreciate your expertise and honesty.


----------



## Northern Lights (Mar 13, 2009)

daveman said:


> Thanks Daniel. Anybody knows of another HID light in the same size/weight class that throws farther than the L35?
> 
> I'm curious as to how much more I would have to pay for even more throw than what the L35 gives me. Which is impressive, just for the record.


 
I ran into this just as the L35 came out and I did not know the L35 was available when I posted this. I have not had time to pursue it, likely wont unless it is phenominally cheaper as you need to buy 10, and sell 9 if you want one, lol. And I like the N30 and L35 and usually will stay with a proven product.

But if you follow the links you can see the similarity in the lights.

Lithium powered HID, related to N30?


----------



## MattK (Mar 13, 2009)

No, there's a triode on the PCB that limits inccoming current. Please stick to the stock charger.




Patriot36 said:


> So it needs a "high frequency charger" and we can't exceed 15V DC input voltage. If it meets those two criteria would it then be ok to charge at a current that's reasonable for this li-po pack....say 3ah or around .5C?


----------



## Richie086 (Mar 13, 2009)

Northern Lights said:


> But if you follow the links you can see the similarity in the lights.
> 
> Lithium powered HID, related to N30?


 

Hi Northern,

I've had some contact with that company some time ago. I've also had my eye on that Lithium powered HID for a while too. The specs I was sent appeared great to me. Fully discharging the 14.8v 4.2Ah battery only requires 8 hours charge time and yields at least 90 minutes of runtime. At about 9.4" long and about 3.3 lbs in weight, it's small and light enough for me. I just wasn't comfortable putting together a group buy on an untested HID if it turned out to be a :thumbsdow I can contact Mr. Wu and make an inquiry if there is enough interest.


----------



## Northern Lights (Mar 13, 2009)

I am a flashaholic and light collector, it will never replace my BatteryJunction HIDs, but I am interested in seeing what it would take to get one. 
My N30 sports an R2 upgrade area light and three LEDs under a GID cap for night glow location. I am buying more packs from BJ for it now but I could use this other HID.


----------



## Northern Lights (Mar 13, 2009)

MattK said:


> The N30 uses a linear charger. The L35's use a high frequency charger. It's not just a simple matter of voltage and current.
> Please stick to the included charger to avoid risk of damage to the light or yourself.


 


mtbkndad said:


> Patriot36,
> You could always get an N30, gut the pack and make it into whatever you want it to be.  .
> 
> Take Care,
> mtbkndad :wave:


MattK, there is one question I am not sure on, but am busy modding, and lucky that you guys have sub C's.

On the N30, am I correct to understand that the OEM charger is semi-smart, (like us!) and does not trickle charge. Was designed for more than 11 NiMh cells but could charge 12. Is this true?

I realize and accept your answer is no endorsement for modification. I am only seeking the specification history or design paramaters as, lets say for entertainment value. 

I hope to get a phone call out to you folks today, lets see what the day brings.

Thanks, NL


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## HKJ (Mar 13, 2009)

MattK said:


> No, there's a triode on the PCB that limits inccoming current.



I serious doubt that, i think they are using a more modern design.:nana:

Triode info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triode

I like my L35, it is a very useful light, thanks for a great light Matt.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 13, 2009)

Northern Lights said:


> MattK, there is one question I am not sure on, but am busy modding, and lucky that you guys have sub C's.
> 
> On the N30, am I correct to understand that the OEM charger is semi-smart, (like us!) and does not trickle charge. Was designed for more than 11 NiMh cells but could charge 12. Is this true?
> 
> ...



I will give an answer here since I am not affiliated with BatteryJunction.
The N30 circuitry does trickle charge the pack that is built into it which is 11 cells.
Whether it is 'smart enough' to trickle a 12 cell pack, I can't say. 
I also do not know if there will be future changes to this pack, but that should not matter to you since you arleady have the light that you are modding  .

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## MattK (Mar 13, 2009)

I honestly don't know - it's what I gt from my factory rep but it was information she got from the engineer so it's secondhand and translated leaving a lot of room for error on that one. Thanks and enjoy! 





HKJ said:


> I serious doubt that, i think they are using a more modern design.:nana:
> 
> Triode info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triode
> 
> I like my L35, it is a very useful light, thanks for a great light Matt.



Northern Lights - I don't know the answer either to adding another serial battery.


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## Northern Lights (Mar 14, 2009)

mtbkndad said:


> Hi Everybody,
> 
> I want to clarify something about both the N30 and the L35.
> 
> ...


 
I am rebuilding One or more N30 packs. I blew one because a charger is bad and it killed the batteries. It is not a warranty or quality problem and likely I just gave it too severe service and I take the responsibility for it. 
I found an interesting circuit. The indicator LEDs are on their own seperate ground wire and not grounded to the board ground. I found out that there is an after thought OEM mod to make it work is why. 
On the end of the indicator LED ground wire wire where attatched to the pack is a 11K ohm resistor. It is small and round, the size of a #6 lead shot. It was buried in the hot glue used to assemble the pack. 
It leads me to believe after designing or borrowing an existing design the manufacturer had to reduce the voltage to the LEDs to get the indicators to indicate relative charge.
If you rebuild a pack you could miss this small part easily.
Come Monday I will be purchasing more packs for my N30. The light and vendor have been very good to me. I believe for the intended service model the L35 and N30 are economically and appropriately designed.


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## BSBG (Mar 15, 2009)

I finally got to take mine for a walk in the woods last night.

Overall, I must say this thing rocks .
A few observations:



The spill beam allows you to see where you are going over rough terrain, while the main spot lights up your path for several hundred yards ahead.
Walking along the road cars give you a wide berth, even with the spot aimed low and away from oncoming traffic.
The LEDs are good for walking while not making such a large "photon footprint".

The L35 of course made the 3C WA 1331 I brought along look yellow, pale and not worth its weight in Li ion batteries.

One criticism - the activation switches seem too small, especially if wearing gloves. I know this is not a light to be cycled on and off, but when you want it on and it is dark I have a hard time finding the tiny rocker switch.

Overall, I am quite pleased.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 17, 2009)

BSBG,

Part of the reason for the small recessed switches is so that the toggles cannot accidentally push on very easily. My original prototypes had larger toggles and can be accidentally turned on pretty easy.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Patriot (Mar 17, 2009)

I like HID's that use a switch design which isn't easy to accidentally switch on/off. I wish the designers of the POB would have thought about that.


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## nein166 (Mar 17, 2009)

I'm a fan of the switches as they don't bump on. 
Some labeling would have been nice, but I took care of it.
Just wish I had a P-Touch like Milkyspit


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## BSBG (Mar 17, 2009)

OK, so I am the only one that thinks the switches are too small for gloved hands . 

No gloves, they are small but workable.


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## Flick (Mar 19, 2009)

Need a brighter LED on my L35. I have read post by Northern Lights on the N30 getting a R2. With the different voltage on L35 (plus my lack of experience modding) I need some input. I would like 200 lumen and hope a head sink would make this doable. Do not want multi outputs. Thanks.


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## Patriot (Mar 19, 2009)

The voltage is less so there won't be any concerns there. As far as heat sinking goes one person used a copper tube and planted the drop-in into one end of it. The other end fit down into the plastic handle of the light.


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## BVH (Mar 19, 2009)

In winter, it will keep your hand warm!


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## Flick (Mar 20, 2009)

BVH said:


> In winter, it will keep your hand warm!


That will give me the plastic smell someone said they liked. Just so it does not melt in my hand.


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## Northern Lights (Mar 20, 2009)

I rebuilt my pack. Some of you were waiting for this:
N30 HID, rebuilt 5 Ah, 72 watt pack and upgrades


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## Phaserburn (Mar 20, 2009)

Anyone know if/when a diffuser lens (or OP reflector) will be available?


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## MattK (Mar 20, 2009)

Yes. A lense kit with a diffuser, red and amber lenses will be released mid-May-ish.


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## Richie086 (Mar 20, 2009)

Northern Lights said:


> I rebuilt my pack. Some of you were waiting for this:
> N30 HID, rebuilt 5 Ah, 72 watt pack and upgrades


 

Hi Northern,

I knew that mod was going to be great. Nice job :thumbsup:


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## clone7 (Mar 25, 2009)

Hey everyone,

I could just be doing it wrong but how do you get the battery out of the L35? Btw i love this light! very bright.


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## Border (Mar 26, 2009)

clone7 said:


> I could just be doing it wrong but how do you get the battery out of the L35?



Have a look at the first message in this thread, scroll about half way down on the web page:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/156617

The pictures show the N30, but AFAIK the same procedure goes for L35.


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## MattK (Mar 26, 2009)

Exactly the same procedure. See also page 3/4 of the owners manual.


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## BVH (Mar 26, 2009)

They are difficult to get started out when they're new, both initially squeezing and pushing the tabs and when about halfway out, there is something causing increased resistance that you need to pull extra hard to overcome. Then you can do the 1/4 turn and extract procedure pretty easy.


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## windstrings (Mar 26, 2009)

I guess you have to be on the inside "the Know" to see these things are for sale now?...

I've been waiting for an update... seems the old thread died and on with the new!


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## BVH (Mar 26, 2009)

Windy, you mean you're not like the rest of us, checking the HID forum 30 to 50 times a day for new posts?


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## windstrings (Mar 26, 2009)

I used to, but I've been out of the loop for a while.
I just finally gave up and figured when it happened, it happened...

you guys got all the bugs worked out yet! :laughing:

Now that I"ve gone this long before finding out about this.. any word on this charge rate issue.. any near future upgrades to the battery limit charge situation that will allow a faster charge or are we set on that for a while?


----------



## Patriot (Mar 26, 2009)

windstrings said:


> I guess you have to be on the inside "the Know" to see these things are for sale now?...
> 
> I've been waiting for an update... seems the old thread died and on with the new!





Ya just have to know where to look. All of these sale announcements are now made over in the Marketplace in the dealer section. If the dealers post announcements here in CPF their threads are closed by admins per the rules about such topics.


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## clone7 (Mar 26, 2009)

Thanks 



Border said:


> Have a look at the first message in this thread, scroll about half way down on the web page:
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/156617
> 
> The pictures show the N30, but AFAIK the same procedure goes for L35.


----------



## windstrings (Mar 26, 2009)

Patriot36 said:


> Ya just have to know where to look. All of these sale announcements are now made over in the Marketplace in the dealer section. If the dealers post announcements here in CPF their threads are closed by admins per the rules about such topics.




That sounds right.... its just nice to take a thread thats very long going and give it a last link to the new thread of intrest so that everyone thats linked to it gets the message.... maybe I missed it....

nevertheless.. no harm done..... its nice to read all the posts before I buy mine anyway... helps me know what extras to get and what to expect.

It would be nice to charge a bit faster..... 

anyone know about any serious progress on that?


----------



## windstrings (Mar 26, 2009)

BVH said:


> Windy, you mean you're not like the rest of us, checking the HID forum 30 to 50 times a day for new posts?



I thought my email alert would do the work for me..... was wrong again!


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## windstrings (Mar 26, 2009)

daveman said:


> Thanks Daniel. Anybody knows of another HID light in the same size/weight class that throws farther than the L35?
> 
> I'm curious as to how much more I would have to pay for even more throw than what the L35 gives me. Which is impressive, just for the record.




yes, its quite addicting isn't it! 

I don't expect this to be anything like my barnburner...(75W HID) but good grief, I can go hunting at night with a scope with that it sees so far.... much farther than needed for practicle use...

But who here is practicle anyway? :shakehead :devil:


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## windstrings (Mar 26, 2009)

SwatDude said:


> How long should it take to charge??? Mine took over 20 hours after running the light to the shut down point. This seems way too long. Eight to 10 hours would seem more realistic in my book.



I have a question someone may have already covered but if so I didn't notice it in my quick scan of all the posts.

*Will the light run off of the battery charger if the battery is already drained?* AC or DC chargers?

If so, the 20 hr charge time is a non issue for me as I want to use it in my boat and I have an inverter there, I also have a DC jack.

But if it won't.... thats quite a bummer to have to wait till the next night before its usable again. "barring extra battery packs of course"
Normally, you could turn a light off a while and let it charge, but if it takes 20 hours to charge... thats 10 hours of charge for every hour of use... or 1 hour of charge for every 6 minutes of use!... not too practicle.


Also... if it "will" run, *can it charge and run at the same time or is it one or the other?*.... or "none" if it won't run off the AC charger at all?


----------



## BVH (Mar 26, 2009)

Just another data point. After a 102 minute run time, the front bezel is about 162 degrees.


----------



## Isak Hawk (Mar 27, 2009)

windstrings,

No, unfortunately it can't run directly off the charger. Mine only takes about 8 hours to recharge though, and that seems to be the norm. So 4 battery packs should be enough to run the light more or less continuously.


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## windstrings (Mar 27, 2009)

BVH said:


> Just another data point. After a 102 minute run time, the front bezel is about 162 degrees.



Wow.. that will cook your breakfast!... approaching close to the ignition temp of dried wood.

I accidentally had my nylon strap laying across the front bezel of my BB and it melted it 1/3rd in two in about 5 minutes.


----------



## windstrings (Mar 27, 2009)

Isak Hawk said:


> windstrings,
> 
> No, unfortunately it can't run directly off the charger. Mine only takes about 8 hours to recharge though, and that seems to be the norm. So 4 battery packs should be enough to run the light more or less continuously.



thanks... 8 hours is much better... that means one hours of charge time gives you about 15min run time..... much more livable... plus honestly needing a light for a solid 2 hours is rare since you have the pilot light too!


----------



## Border (Mar 27, 2009)

windstrings said:


> I have a question someone may have already covered but if so I didn't notice it in my quick scan of all the posts.
> 
> *Will the light run off of the battery charger if the battery is already drained?* AC or DC chargers?
> 
> If so, the 20 hr charge time is a non issue for me as I want to use it in my boat and I have an inverter there, I also have a DC jack.



How about bypassing the L35/N30 battery by removing it and connect the +/- pins directly to a 12V outlet found in boats/cars? Could that be advisable?

I guess the answer relies on whether fluctuating voltage might cause a destructive impact on the ballast...


----------



## windstrings (Mar 27, 2009)

thats a good suggestion... I am tapping off of big Marine batteries, the voltage should be very stable.

The question is "where" to supply the voltage.
I don't want to hurt the charging mechanism in any way.... 

You would have to tap in "after" the charging circuit and before the ballast.
I don't know if the charging circuit is protected from outside voltage coming from that direction... maybe a simple diode would do the trick?

Seems a simple solution unless I'm missing something.


----------



## Border (Mar 27, 2009)

The charger circuit is actually inside the battery pack, so when the latter is removed I guess you can access the ballast directly via the pins seen inside the battery compartment of L35/N30.


----------



## windstrings (Mar 27, 2009)

Good point.. I guess I was trying to think of a way to install a small jack that could be accessed "without" pulling the battery pack out and when doing so, would it interfere with normal operations of the light if power was hooked to that jack....seems that would be on the ballast side of the battery and circuit so it should be ok.

This shouldn't be so hard since there is no heat problems with this light....
Maybe they could add that to their next models for direct use from a cigarette lighter jack.


----------



## Border (Mar 27, 2009)

On the practical side; the light will be extremely lightweight if the battery pack was to be replaced by a chord. 

Hopefully someone will chime in and give their thoughtful opinions on a bypass like this - before anyone gets hurt.


----------



## windstrings (Mar 27, 2009)

The output voltage is very close to normal 12V source from a car or boat.
As long as the battery didn't mind voltage a tad higher than itself being on the output side, It would be a no brainer.


----------



## Northern Lights (Mar 27, 2009)

Border said:


> How about bypassing the L35/N30 battery by removing it and connect the +/- pins directly to a 12V outlet found in boats/cars? Could that be advisable?
> 
> I guess the answer relies on whether fluctuating voltage might cause a destructive impact on the ballast...


 I have done that with 12V Pb gel cells for short periods with the N30 and did not have any problems.


----------



## BVH (Mar 27, 2009)

I ran my L35 directly off my power supply. No problems what-so-ever. Ran it from 14.5 Volts (automotive charging system upper end) down to 9.8 Volts.


----------



## Border (Mar 27, 2009)

Sounds great!

I'll get myself a cigarette lighter plug, a chord and some sort of cable shoes that fits those pins, and give it a try.


----------



## MattK (Mar 27, 2009)

I'm not ready to suggest that as a DIY project but we're exploring the possibility, if the market warrants, of developing a constant run 'battery' with a 12/24V power cord. Basically a battery 'case' with all necessary electricals that replaces the standard battery.

Regarding charge time only a few users thus far have reported the 12+ hour charge times. We tested 4 lights this week on repeated charge and discharge cycles and are seeing 7.5-8.5hrs with runtimes of 105-112 minutes as the constant so we suspect that those few experiencing longer charge times have a problem with the AC adapter or battery (PCB) or perhaps their household power supply voltage. We have a local electrical engineering firm (owned by a CPF member!) testing a battery pack and charger now to see if they can replicate the issue.

I'm going to be contacting one of the folks with the longer charge times today so that we can get his battery and charger to the same EE firm for testing to find out what the cause is. That's you Mr.TedBear - ringring!

Also, we are exploring faster charging options with the factory. Faster charging requires a new adapter and a revised battery PCB so this would not be a matter of simply getting a new adapter for those who already have an L34. The battery factory stated that ~1.2Ah (.2C) is the maximum charge rate that can be supported without lowering battery cycles; anything beyond that will have a direct negative effect on effective charge cycles/battery life.


----------



## Border (Mar 27, 2009)

MattK said:


> I'm not ready to suggest that as a DIY project but we're exploring the possibility, if the market warrants, of developing a constant run 'battery' with a 12/24V power cord. Basically a battery 'case' with all necessary electricals that replaces the standard battery.



IMHO, that would be a very interesting option. Add some sort of protective circuit or voltage stabilizer into the otherwise empty case, and you'll have my instant order. 

Maybe even there will be enough space for a small storage compartment, for when the power chord is not in use? A spring-loaded, lockable mechanism for pulling the cable (and plug) in and out would be even nicer.

Whew!


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## MattK (Mar 27, 2009)

Interesting idea on the storage compartment but frankly it's unlikely as we'd have to open new tooling for that - the way we're looking at doing this uses the existing tooling which saves ~$3K in tooling costs making the constant-run adapter far more viable.


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## Northern Lights (Mar 27, 2009)

MattK said:


> Interesting idea on the storage compartment but frankly it's unlikely as we'd have to open new tooling for that - the way we're looking at doing this uses the existing tooling which saves ~$3K in tooling costs making the constant-run adapter far more viable.


 
DIY- A little more involved than replacing a pack for a unit but...

I explored that idea already when working with a bad pack. The top half of the pack can be used as a cap only on the light body because the retaining ears are on that piece of the two piece pack body. The cord, plug, cord connectors and even some small stablelizing unit could fit under the cap. The cord could be removed and could lay in a hole provided on the side of the cap and cap replaced. To access the cord the cap is removed, the cord laid out and the cap replaced. OK for DIY while we await the production models. 
The bottom half that held the bad battery pack can be kept on the bench and used to hold loose screw and parts left over from rebuiding stuff.
Besides rebuilding a perfectly good and well designed light that does not need it is what CPF is, isn't it?
thumbnail link-click to enlarge:


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## windstrings (Mar 27, 2009)

MattK said:


> I'm not ready to suggest that as a DIY project but we're exploring the possibility, if the market warrants, of developing a constant run 'battery' with a 12/24V power cord. Basically a battery 'case' with all necessary electricals that replaces the standard battery.



Now THATS a good reason to have a backup battery!... buying the new one you suggests would make the original stock one an excellent backup for long treks away from a power source.
Since its lithium, you wouldn't have to baby it all the time by keeping a charge on it as the shelf life is so good it should be ready for use whenever you decide its needed.

you could keep it stashed away somewhere in case of breakdown or for camping trips.

Although I just ordered my light this morning.. I"m in on that new battery setup if you make one.


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## SwatDude (Mar 28, 2009)

Okay, I'm not really sure why, but the first time I discharged my light completely and recharged it, it took almost 20 hours for the charge light to turn green. Last night I discharged it again and put it on the charger at 11:30 pm. When I checked this morning at 8:30, it was fully charged.


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## windstrings (Mar 28, 2009)

Sometimes the very first charge can take a while.... as you see other have reported too.

Thats the nature of lithium when you get it new.. not sure of all the reasons.. even though its shelf life it phenomenal.. something about when its brand new.... most cell phones, pda's or other lithium powered devices will tell you to charge for much longer time upon intial use than the regular charge times will be later.

I leave all my lithium devices on the charger too when not in use or on my person.


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## windstrings (Apr 4, 2009)

ok... I finally took my L35 for its first test run.

I was "very" impressed with the crystal clear crisp reflector.
It has an amazingly smooth beam when shown against a wall and when viewing far in the distance, there is a nice center hot spot that really cuts.
No flickering was noted during warmup to my naked eyes.

I"m surprised to get this much light out of only 35Watts... I've gotten spoiled with my 75W Xeray Barnburner and although there is a definite difference between the two that puts them in different classes to compare, I an almost see the same things with the L35 that I can with the BB... I can just see it better with the BB.
I can see about 600 yards one way down my block and I need more distance to tell the real difference in throw as the tall trees block furthur view.

I almost think I like the Kelvin color of the L35 better too. When you first fire it up, its too blue, but after it warms up, it does just that.

When both are totally warmed up, the BB looks more yellow than the L35.
This is so subjective.... I think both give excellent natural colors from objects at night.

I am more than happy with my purchase... I love the LED light too... its bright enough that its more than enough light for several people to see while hiking down a dark trail at night.. .. then you have the big boy for distance spotting.

What I like about that is you have a totally functional light that you don't have to fear will drain the battery...... good for inside a tent or plently of light to keep on while sitting around the camp without totally blinding everyone.

The main light on the other hand, will totally blind anyone who is in its path.
It performs better than I expected.

The comforting thing about this purchase is that since I have followed the thought, passion, and conviction of making of this light for so long, I am confident that all the internal parts are of highest quality for the money..... as compared to some foreign units are all glitter on the outside while being fragile on the inside.

The battery meter is a relative meter. LiIon voltage drops quite a bit when a load is placed on it yet it holds that voltage rock solid till dead.... this characteristic makes it hard for a battery meter to be accurate unless you only test it without the unit on. Because once you turn it on, it appears the battery is near dead when its not.

This little guy is light and very comfortable when walking as it rests in your fingers effortlessly and naturally!
A normal flashlight that we all have grown accustomed to is actually a bit more awkward to carry for prolonged periods of time in the forward position as the wrist has to keep it held up unless you can find a good balance point. With this light, you just relax and walk.

Good job!.. its been a long time waiting and it was worth it! :twothumbs


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## BVH (Apr 4, 2009)

Windy, I believe Dan says the BB renders a color temp of about 3900K.


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## windstrings (Apr 4, 2009)

That sounds about right, since the L35 is just a tad higher than that.
The lower gives more lumens of course.

I remember the "very first" HID handheld I ever messed with was the Acro 990X ... 
I'm amazed the price is still so high.... I expect it will come crashing down now. But HID light is in a class of its own... even 35W blows aways all the competition thats Non HID.

The L35 is quite a nice light. I"m really glad I bought one.


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## BSBG (Apr 5, 2009)

OK, mine is acting up...

It will start to come on (either LED or HID) then go dead. Completely dead - switching on and off does nothing, the battery meter shows dark. Actually, the LEDs barely glow - I noticed this on the long dark walk home last night.

Plugging it into the charger for a few seconds resets it and it is fine until the next time . Unfortunately I can't think of where to find 120 VAC in the woods.

I have emailed customer service, we'll see what happens.

Anyone else have this happen? Any ideas? I am thinking something in the battery circuitry.

Other than that, I love this thing .


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## BVH (Apr 5, 2009)

Sounds like the over-discharge protection circuit is kicking in. What is the pack voltage reading right after you reset it?


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## BSBG (Apr 5, 2009)

BVH said:


> Sounds like the over-discharge protection circuit is kicking in. What is the pack voltage reading right after you reset it?



I'll measure that with a DMM next time, but the battery meter showed one green.

I probably ran the light 20-25 minutes before it happened, and it was off for several minutes before I hit the switch and nada. It has also happened after resting on the shelf (fully charged) for a few days - pick it up, hit the switch, flicker and out.


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## BVH (Apr 5, 2009)

My L35 doesn't have a battery meter......or in my mind, it does not have one. I would not judge anything by it. How long does it take to charge from "depleted battery" to led turning green?

The key is knowing pack voltage when it happens. IIRC, the over-discharge circuit on mine kicks in right at 9.6 Volts. (Taking the measurement after doing the "reset")

Going out after having sat on the shelf with a full charge sounds like one or more defective cells. My defective pack showed up by having a fully charged run time of 55 minutes and a fully charged pack voltage of 12.05. I believe it was one defective cell. Fully charged pack voltage on the replacement battery is 12.26. Others have reported as much as 12.8x and 12.65 IIRC.

Knowing all these pack voltages will tell you what the issue is.


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## BSBG (Apr 5, 2009)

I left it on the charger overnght, was green this am (no idea how long it took).

It is now 12.59v.

I was going to do a run time / V pack test, but managed to break my pack reinserting it (incorrectly of course). Now I have the end cap off, there is a yellow wire not soldered to anything.

Does anyone know here this should be attached? Voltage still reads 12.59 at the contacts and the 'fuel gauge' LED meter shows full. I did not reinsert it into the light as I might never get it out again unless I glue it back together. 

So far, not a good morning.


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## BVH (Apr 5, 2009)

Man, that's the pitttts!!! I don't think anyone has had one apart yet to give you an idea of where the yellow wire goes - if anywhere. You might try PM'ing NorthernLights. He's had the N30 pack apart and although it's a different animal, maybe there is enough similarity to give you an idea. The voltage at the contacts is certainly where it should be. But who knows what happens under load. Hopefully, you can figure the yellow wire and then glue the pack together for use. Then you can see what's happening with a run time test and voltage checks.


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## BSBG (Apr 5, 2009)

BVH said:


> Man, that's the pitttts!!!



You're telling me.

I was very careful to have the 'top' mark upright before I slid the pack in. Unfortunately, I was holding the body under my arm upside down. It goes in about an inch, then you hear a 'click' that isn't right. Ten minutes of fighting and the screws that hold the cap shear off. This allows a better view to align the grooves and remove the pack.

The yellow wire must be for the charge status LED as the fuel gauge still works. I have not tried plugging in the charger to be sure, too disgusted with my stupid error.

Still 12.59v at the pins.


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## BVH (Apr 5, 2009)

It's one remark I have not made in my posts but noticed right away the first time I took my L35 battery out. The "top" is 180 degrees off. It is actually at the bottom when the battery is inserted. The N30 packs are correct. I wish I'd said something. 

Matt, here's something to have corrected on the next batch _ (assuming the two I've seen are indicative of all of them)


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## Marko (Apr 6, 2009)

BSBG said:


> Now I have the end cap off, there is a yellow wire not soldered to anything.
> 
> Does anyone know here this should be attached?



I had same kind of situation with N30 pack, and it wasn't even upside down. :huh: New pack rotates more smootly, the first one was a bit bulkier I think.

I have pictures of the inside of the N30 pack somewhere, I'll post those if only found them first...

edit: picture of N30 battery pack PCB, hope this helps


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## windstrings (Apr 6, 2009)

Well I don't have a N30 to compare, but I'm amazed at how bright and crisp the reflector is on the L35.... seems its pretty high quality.

Usually you have to go with an orange peel surface to get a pattern without artifacts too.... whereas these are remarkably smooth.


Thanks for the tip on the "top" being off.... I'll have to remark mine.


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## windstrings (Apr 6, 2009)

So are we under the conclusion that the battery meter does work properly?...
I've had mine on charge for two days and when I take it off the charger and hit the test button, it only shows yellow after the green blinks once.

Does everyones basically seem to behave the same way?
No big deal to me if thats going to be normal for now....

I haven't done a definitive test of any kind "like see how long it takes for my light to run down".

I'm still assuming its fully charged, unless I too have a bad cell.


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## BVH (Apr 6, 2009)

Windy, I'm not paying any attention to my battery meter. Pay attention to the green led indication charging is done. If I were you, I'd do at least one full run time test to ensure you in the ball park of 100 to 110 minutes.


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## BSBG (Apr 6, 2009)

Marko said:


> I had same kind of situation with N30 pack, and it wasn't even upside down. :huh: New pack rotates more smootly, the first one was a bit bulkier I think.
> 
> I have pictures of the inside of the N30 pack somewhere, I'll post those if only found them first...
> 
> edit: picture of N30 battery pack PCB, hope this helps



Thank you sir!

Board looks almost identical and I have that same IS2 terminal, although it looks like nothing was ever soldered to it. I plugged in the charger and the charge LED comes on, so that is working. It appears the only thing on the cap that doesn't work is the amber LED on the untrustworthy gauge.

More to come...


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## windstrings (Apr 7, 2009)

BVH said:


> Windy, I'm not paying any attention to my battery meter. Pay attention to the green led indication charging is done. If I were you, I'd do at least one full run time test to ensure you in the ball park of 100 to 110 minutes.




Funny, I put it back on the charger and then it would show Green while unplugged.... I think I"ll take your advice since its brand new to rule out any funkyness.


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## Fat Boy (Apr 11, 2009)

:thumbsdowsad to see the staff edit and remove posts that provide important information to members. Good bye one and all.........if you even see this.


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## Patriot (Apr 11, 2009)

MattK said:


> Also, we are exploring faster charging options with the factory. Faster charging requires a new adapter and a revised battery PCB so this would not be a matter of simply getting a new adapter for those who already have an L34. The battery factory stated that ~1.2Ah (.2C) is the maximum charge rate that can be supported without lowering battery cycles; anything beyond that will have a direct negative effect on effective charge cycles/battery life.




So Matt, what is the charging current set to at this time. At one time I remember it was stated as being .5A and someone else mentioned .8A. I've forgotten the actual capacity of the battery but assuming it's 6A a 1.2Ah charge rate would recharge a fully depleted battery in about 4 hours. I think that's more than reasonable and would be worth changing imo.

Not that it matters since you're not going to do anything against the battery manufacturers recommendations but charge rates slightly higher than .2C will not have any negative effects on Li-po at all especially considering how easy this application is on li-po batteries anyhow. In the RC world we routinely discharge li-pos at rates up to 25-50C and field charge them at 1.0C. When there's no hurry and the batteries are charged at home we do them at .5-.6C. I put a tick mark with a sharpie marker on my li-pos every time they've completed a cycle and I have some batteries with over two-hundred cycles on them with no ill-effects. I just wanted to point out the fact that the manufacturer is being ultra conservative to the point that I'm wondering if these particular li-pos are somehow made differently from every other li-po out there. 

In any case if the light could be recharged in about 4 hours at 1.2Ah I still think that's reasonable. 8 hours of charging is really getting up there and the instances of 12+ hours is probably the only reason why I haven't purchased one yet. I think it's really great that you're running tests to try to replicate these issues though. I keep checking in on this thread to see what the results are going to be. 

Thanks Matt.


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## BVH (Apr 11, 2009)

Paul, the wall wart is labeled 800 ma. In my testing, I would say over the entire charge period, the average rate is 650 ma. The battery is rated at 5.6 mah, IIRC.


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## brightnorm (Apr 16, 2009)

My L35 just arrived with a completely dead battery, rather than "partially charged" as described in the instructions.
Should I assume the battery is faulty and return the light?

Brightnorm


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## Patriot (Apr 16, 2009)

Brightnorm, I would at least try to charge it first then if there is a problem you'll have more information to go by. IIRC, there where others who had lights come that had to charge for 12+ hours before using. I think the someone said that the instructions say to charge the light before attempting to use it, so it's possible that others had dead batteries but since they didn't try to switch the light on they didn't know if it was "dead" or not.


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## Fat Boy (Apr 16, 2009)

:thumbsdowsad to see the staff edit and remove posts that provide important information to members. Good bye one and all.........if you even see this.


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## windstrings (Apr 16, 2009)

Mine was completely dead too.... I took a while to charge it. Works perfect, but I have as of yet to test it to see how long the actual runtime is to prove all the battery cells are ok... I've been keeping it on the charger.

A bad cell would drain the rest, but keeping it on the charger "as I have done" would probably mask that.

I've had too many irons in the fire, getting ready to go on vacation, but when I get back, I'm going to test mine.


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## brightnorm (Apr 17, 2009)

Thanks, I'll charge it and keep my fingers crossed

BN

PS Is it safe to keep it on the charger when you are on vacation and can't keep an eye on it?


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## Fat Boy (Apr 17, 2009)

My personal opionion is NO, I had an AC adapter that actually melted and nearly started a fire except I was able to interceed. It was just one bad adapter but I no longer keep any plugged in without some supervision especially till I know some history of the unit.


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## brightnorm (Apr 17, 2009)

Was that the AC adapter that came with the L35?

Brightnorm


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## Fat Boy (Apr 17, 2009)

brightnorm said:


> Was that the AC adapter that came with the L35?
> 
> Brightnorm


Sorry, sorry NOT from the L35!!! this was for another product all together.

I just got my L35 today and got it plugged in at 5:45pm....can't wait. Wow is this thing lite!


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## SwatDude (Apr 18, 2009)

I am having an issue with my L35 discharging. I fully charged it and after it sat for a few days I pushed the battery indicator button and saw that it was back to red. I decided to test the run time and I only got 48 minutes out of it. So I fully recharged it until the green light was showing, thinking it might have been a fluke. Now 4 days later when I check it, it is back to red. I thought paying extra for lithium polymer batteries assured that the battery would discharge very little while being stored. What gives?


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## Fat Boy (Apr 18, 2009)

Fat Boy said:


> I just got my L35 today and got it plugged in at 5:45pm


Well 9 hours later (might of been less, I just woke up) I got the green light indicator that it is charged.

EDIT: Ran continuously for 1 hour and 43 minutes on the first charge.


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## Fat Boy (Apr 18, 2009)

I am NOT an experienced flashaholic so take it for what its worth. I do like this light. I like how lite it is, I like the color and texture of the surface. I like the design and overall features that everyone is already aware of. I like the battery pack design. I liked the spill of the light. When using this light outside felt everything in front of me was really very well lit up. I took it down to the lake and it was great shinning up the opposite shoreline. Couple small things I've noticed. The feet are not quit square so it rocks a little bit when sat down. The LED indicator lights in the back of the battery pack are very slightly miss-aligned. My personal preference would've been to make the rocker switches a little bigger.

FYI when I got my light and pushed the "test" button it showed a red indicator, now that I have completely drained down my light and pushed the indicator there is no LED indicator at all so maybe those that thought they had lights with no charge really did but assumed that there was no charge because it was red. Even with my light showing no indicator my understanding is that it is shut off prior to completely draining the batteries. When my light turned off it did NOT seem to dim it just suddenly turned off, I assume this is correctly operating. I like this light and would at this point buy it again. I will be continuing to check the charging aspect of the light,


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## Fat Boy (Apr 18, 2009)

Superhenrik said:


> I just hope that the leds on the L 35 will shine for hours and hours after the Hid have expired, just that they do on the N 30 (can there be a difference due too the battery change too Li-Poly?).


 for me the LEDs did NOT turn on once the HID expired the battery, hmmm. You say the N30 did? that would be nice.


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## windstrings (Apr 18, 2009)

As long as we can figure this out and they make it good... none of us are at a loss.

One of the prices of making cutting edge technology is that it takes a while to figure out and work out all the bugs.
One of the prices of buying cutting edge technology is that we will discover stuff thats often hard to assess in the lab.
These batteries are indeed cool.... but maybe theres a few bad apples that mess up the whole bunch.

If this becomes a problem, I suppose we will need to send in our battery pack, or they will need to give some instructions DIY of how to assess the problem ourselves and fix ourselves should be be supplied with the appropriate battery.

I prefer to have all my cells of the same type and make.

I would much rather have a battery problem than some anomaly with the ballast or bulb.

This shouldn't be difficult to assess and fix once we know where to target our attention.

My battery indicator still never shows green... even straight off the charger. I've only witness that briefly a couple of times.
Usually I get a blip of green, then it stays on yellow.

So until I get back from vacation, I won't have time to figure this out.

The only thing bad about these Cruises, is that they always end! LOL!


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## BVH (Apr 18, 2009)

As has been discussed early in this thread, the battery meter is not really a usable tool on many of our L35's. The green "charge complete" led is the one to pay attention to. There is an over-discharge cut-off circuit to protect the battery pack. Once triggered, it takes a micro second of charge voltage to re-enable battery output.


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## windstrings (Apr 18, 2009)

We hounded them long enough to get these out asap... I guess its normal to have a few minor bugs..

BVH, are you saying that once the battery is fully charged and the overcharge circuit kicks in to protect the battery, the battery will not work until again hit with another brief charge voltage?

If thats the case, that would mean that everytime I take mine off the charger "and it works", that would mean the overcharge circuit had not been enabled yet, correct?


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## BVH (Apr 18, 2009)

windstrings said:


> We hounded them long enough to get these out asap... I guess its normal to have a few minor bugs..
> 
> BVH, are you saying that once the battery is fully charged and the overcharge circuit kicks in to protect the battery, the battery will not work until again hit with another brief charge voltage?
> 
> If thats the case, that would mean that everytime I take mine off the charger "and it works", that would mean the overcharge circuit had not been enabled yet, correct?



Windy, no you mis-read my post. When the over-DIScharge circuit kicks in, the battery output is terminated until hit with the charger.


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## Fat Boy (Apr 18, 2009)

Well something is weird with mine too. I recharged the battery and it took nearly 9 hours to get the green charge light on the 2nd charge. Before I unplugged it I hit the test button(while still plugged in) and only got red and amber lights on. I then unplugged it and and hit test and got the same thing. Now I re-plugged it in and it has started to charge for the last hour and still going?!?


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## windstrings (Apr 18, 2009)

BVH said:


> Windy, no you mis-read my post. When the over-DIScharge circuit kicks in, the battery output is terminated until hit with the charger.



Ok, I think I understand now, but it sounds like you may have mean't that the "charger" output is terminated?.....
Or another way to put in... the battery "input" is terminated to prevent further overcharging.

By virtue that the light works when you flip the switch means the battery output is not terminated... only the input from the charger.

Anyway..... Hopefully I got it now.... that makes much more sense. oo:


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## windstrings (Apr 18, 2009)

Fat Boy said:


> Well something is weird with mine too. I recharged the battery and it took nearly 9 hours to get the green charge light on the 2nd charge. Before I unplugged it I hit the test button(while still plugged in) and only got red and amber lights on. I then unplugged it and and hit test and got the same thing. Now I re-plugged it in and it has started to charge for the last hour and still going?!?



Sounds like this is pretty common.
I can live with the lights being funky, as long as we know when the charge is done is the main thing.

It would be nice to pop in another charge board when its fixed... should be an easy DIY job.... otherwise, I've never seen a battery indicator thats really reliable anyway, other than on video cameras and the like.


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## BVH (Apr 18, 2009)

Windy...

WIndy, I am not referring to the lights "charging" circuit. I am referring to the over-DIScharge protection built into the pack.

Run your L35 HID until it dies. Remove the battery. Use a Volt meter to read pack voltage thru the two small holes in the battery case. (on the side opposite the label/led's) You may or may not get a very small, fractional voltage reading - almost nothing. Plug your 120 Volt wall wart into a 120 Volt supply. Briefly plug in the charging pin (for 1/4 to 1/2 second) Take another reading and you'll get something probably above 10 Volts.

There is a circuit in the pack that senses minimum safe pack voltage (over DIScharge). When that voltage is reached by running the pack down, the PCB disconnects battery output to the two terminals/"holes" you took your readings from above. Hense, voltage does not reach the ballast terminals. You will not be able to lit the led's either because they are feed from the same terminals.


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## windstrings (Apr 18, 2009)

Sorry BVH, I guess I missed the point entirely as I read the posts too fast.
I had to go back and re-read Fatboy's post.

Your explanation explains why a light would not work till It was hit it with the charger a bit.

The real question is why was it drained so far as Lithium normally has awesome shelf life and I expect they are shipped with a reasonable charge on them already.

I thought you were referring to the overcharge protection thats in the battery I guess.... sorry for the confusion.

Just going by memory, seems I remember mine was not locked but maybe "near" dead as the LED would work but when I turned on the HID portion it only briefly flickered and then all was dead. Of course at that point the "dis"charge protection probably was enabled preventing any more action till I charged it.

-----
Edit:
This also begs the question...... whatever is discharging these spontaneously may also completely take out the whole pack right?
What I mean is, if they are protected from discharging more by cutting off the output, whats to protect them from going even further down in voltage from poor shelf life taking them down on its own?

If they drain that much during transport, what will happen if someone leaves thier unit off the charger for a few months?
Either there is a bad cell causing this whole issue, or whats preventing this vulnerability from being reality?

I'm not trying to be an alarmist, just asking honest questions..... I'm probably missing something again here I hope.

Hopefully if its just one bad cell.... when ran in series with the other good ones, it shouldn't affect the others but merely affect the final total voltage.


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## Fat Boy (Apr 19, 2009)

BVH said:


> There is a circuit in the pack that senses minimum safe pack voltage (over DIScharge). When that voltage is reached by running the pack down, the PCB disconnects battery output to the two terminals/"holes" you took your readings from above. Hense, voltage does not reach the ballast terminals. You will not be able to lit the led's either because they are feed from the same terminals.


So then you are confirming that if the light is completely drained down using the HID the LEDs will not work either, unlike what others report of being able to use the LEDs for hours afterwards.

I plugged in and un-plugged my battery 3 times to get it to actually top off a charge, possibly this is normal at first.


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## windstrings (Apr 19, 2009)

I could see how the voltage would pop back up some enough for the LED's to work for some time, but like you brought up, if that circuit has stopped output, then that wouldn't work.

Seems the circuit should stay realtime and merely stop output beyond a low voltage range, rather than it flipping a switch that cannot be flipped back without a charge.


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## BSBG (Apr 19, 2009)

windstrings said:


> The real question is why was it drained so far as Lithium normally has awesome shelf life and I expect they are shipped with a reasonable charge on them already.



I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but the generally recommended long term storage level for Li cells is 40% charged. The packs are probably shipped at this level. That's about 3.8v per cell, which would be barely above the low discharge cut off.


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## SwatDude (Apr 19, 2009)

This still does account for the fact that my battery is discharging over the course of a few days.

Matt, is this an unreasonable expectation for a Li po?


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## brightnorm (Apr 19, 2009)

SwatDude said:


> This still does account for the fact that my battery is discharging over the course of a few days. Matt, is this an unreasonable expectation for a Li po?


 
I was unsuccesful when I tried Googling for that answer.

Brightnorm


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## BVH (Apr 19, 2009)

Swat, IMHO, your battery is defective. An L35 ought to be good for at least 3 - 6 months on the shelf.

I just re-verified that the over-DIScharge circuit terminates all output from the battery pack. The LED's will not light once the HID drains the batteries down to the voltage where the protection circuit is activated - at least with my light and having experienced it with two different battery packs.

A simple 1/2 second "hit" (then removing the pin) with the activated charging pin re-enables pack output and the LED's. The LED's have been running for 30 minutes without having re-charged the battery pack. This leads to another observation. I'm assuming that the rapid voltage "bounce-back" of the pack is providing voltage above that at which the protection circuit activates and that the LED's will run until the protection circuit activation voltage is reached by use of the LED's.


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## SwatDude (Apr 19, 2009)

BVH said:


> Swat, IMHO, your battery is defective. An L35 ought to be good for at least 3 - 6 months on the shelf.


 
I am going to charge it fully today. Unplug it and leave it on the shelf until next Sunday, and then do a run time test on it. If it hits less than 100 minutes, I am sending it back.


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## BVH (Apr 19, 2009)

Swat, do you have a digital volt meter? Charge the pack for 8-9 hours. The led should be green by this time. Take it out of the body and measure the voltage in the two "holes" in the front end of the pack. My defective battery, which never yielded more than 55 minutes of run time, had a charged voltage of 12.05. Most other owners report from 12.5 to 12.8. My replacement battery measures 12.6.

Again, I would not pay any attention to the battery meter in any respect.


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## brightnorm (Apr 20, 2009)

It would be interesting to see runtimes and charging times posted by many L35 owners. I got 90 min on the first charge, 100 min on the second. Seems a bit low, but if enough of us post we'll know what to expect "realistically". I'll record charging times later. 

Brightnorm


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## Isak Hawk (Apr 20, 2009)

brightnorm said:


> It would be interesting to see runtimes posted by many L35 owners. I got 90 min on the first charge, 100 min on the second charge. Seems a bit low, but if enough of us post we'll know what to expect "realistically".
> 
> Brightnorm


 
After a couple of cycles on both of my batteries:
Battery 1 has a runtime of 116 minutes and takes about 8 and a half hours to recharge.
The runtime of battery number 2 is 102 minutes but it only takes about 7 and a half hours to recharge. 

Both batteries have kept their charges for weeks now and there are no problems to report.


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## brightnorm (Apr 20, 2009)

116 minutes is impressive. I'm timing my 3rd charge right now.

Brightnorm


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## BVH (Apr 20, 2009)

103 after 3 charges.


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## brightnorm (Apr 21, 2009)

3rd charge took 8hrs 17min. I may start using the light rather than timing another run.

Brightnorm


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## Fat Boy (Apr 21, 2009)

I got 105 min after the second charge


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## Fat Boy (Apr 21, 2009)

BVH said:


> Most other owners report from 12.5 to 12.8. My replacement battery measures 12.6.


I get 12.58 fully charged. Ran it all the way down after 104 minutes after 3rd charge.


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## BSBG (Apr 21, 2009)

My original battery (now broken) measured 12.59 fully charged, but run time was short.

My new battery is 12.51v charged, runs 107 minutes until shutdown.


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## Fat Boy (Apr 21, 2009)

After charging for 8 1/2 hours the green charge indicator light comes on and I get 11.72v charge. When I hit the test I get only the red and yellow indicators on. I am leaving it continuing to charge for the next 12 hours and check again.

-Charge light is green and at the 16 hour mark the battery still shows 11.72v
-Charge light is green and at the 27 hour mark the battery shows 11.71v (I have now unplugged and replugged in the battery and it is charging again)

I know whats going to happen; at the 24 hour mark it will still show 11.72v and then I will unplug it and replug it in the charger and the charge light will show red and will charge for another 8 hours and then the battery will be at 12.58v. Whats going on, why do I have to double charge this battery and why does it take so long for mine to charge? Is this a battery problem or a charger problem.....it seems like both to me. Noob here, and any help would be appreciated. So far I've only fully charged and fully drained the battery 4 times.


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## brightnorm (Apr 22, 2009)

My 3rd run was only 98 minutes, actually worse than the 2nd run of 100 min. Unless this indicates a continually worsening trend I'll just have to accept the fact that my battery is sub-par, but still within "reasonable" limits. 

But, it is disappointing.

Brightnorm


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## BVH (Apr 22, 2009)

Another way to view it: Every ballast that comes off the mfg line, is going to meet a spec range of output. Since you have a low run time, your ballast probably puts out a Watt or so more than those that get 110 minutes. So your light is technically brighter!


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## brightnorm (Apr 22, 2009)

Hey, I like that! I'll try to convince myself that it's true.

BN


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## Fat Boy (Apr 23, 2009)

Fat Boy said:


> I know whats going to happen; at the 24 hour mark it will still show 11.72v and then I will unplug it and replug it in the charger and the charge light will show red and will charge for another 8 hours and then the battery will be at 12.58v. Whats going on, why do I have to double charge this battery and why does it take so long for mine to charge? Is this a battery problem or a charger problem.....it seems like both to me. Noob here, and any help would be appreciated. So far I've only fully charged and fully drained the battery 4 times.


Well it didnt take 8 hours but it did take 5 hours and 15 minutes (for a total of 14 hours and 15 minutes to get a fully charge) and now I have a charge of 12.58v and the charge light is now green again. does anyone else have to double charge their battery to get it fully charged?




> I am having an issue with my L35 discharging. I fully charged it and after it sat for a few days I pushed the battery indicator button and saw that it was back to red. I decided to test the run time and I only got 48 minutes out of it. So I fully recharged it until the green light was showing, thinking it might have been a fluke. Now 4 days later when I check it, it is back to red. I thought paying extra for lithium polymer batteries assured that the battery would discharge very little while being stored. What gives?


after three days of sitting my battery dropped from 12.58 to 12.55, not bad, so you must have a problem. Did you return it or is it working now?


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## windstrings (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm happy to report I finally got a chance to do a runtime test on my L35.
It ran a full 100 minutes and took about 8ish hours to charge back again so I'm a happy camper.

Ballasts have very critical adjustments inside them that adjust the voltage output... in other words the adjustment pod have very coarse settings "a little movement does a very lot!".

With that in mind, its very hard to take ten ballasts and have them all adjusted critically to perform exactly the same without putting a ton a man hours into runtime tests involved.

All things considered I think they have done a great job of bringing this desired consistency.

Like BVH said, its quite possible that the lights that have slightly lower runtimes in fact discharge a tad more lumens and so are subliminally brighter to pay that price rather than thinking its an inconsistency in the battery.

I also think its a challenge to make a reliable battery meter for a LiIon battery system. The resting voltage of LiIon is quite higher than while under a load.

Even though while under a load, it holds very well without budging, its still hard to develope a single monitor that will do both "load" and "no load".

The meter either needs to monitor while under no load "which is rarely accurate" or it needs to monitor while under a load "which means it won't be accurate while "not" having a load.

Not to mention, if you try to do a battery check while its on charge, you are complicating the task yet furthur.

I think the most useful meter would be to calibrate it for use under load.

Regardless, thats very minor on my scale of values.... the main thing is this light has an awesomely bright smooth beam and it performs as stated and is very light with some cool features not offered on much more expensive lights.


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## Fat Boy (Apr 30, 2009)

I am not familar with HID lights, this is my first, is it normal to have a green hue in the middle of the beam? I thought I was seeing things so I had my kids look at it with me tonight and everyone saw a distinct green center patch at the very center of the beam and a yellowish color along the bottom edge. This does not seem to go away after warm up....maybe this is normal with HID lights???


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## SwatDude (Apr 30, 2009)

SwatDude said:


> I am going to charge it fully today. Unplug it and leave it on the shelf until next Sunday, and then do a run time test on it. If it hits less than 100 minutes, I am sending it back.


 
so I am a little late doing this but 10 days after my light has been sitting un-used, I just did a run time test on it. I got 96 minutes out of it but I had gotten the typical 110 minutes from a fully charged battery. Do you think it is acceptable for a li po to lose almost 13% sitting for 10 days?? Should I send it back??

Can someone else with what they consider a good battery do a similar test??


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## Patriot (Apr 30, 2009)

Just going from your description it's probably mostly normal unless you're bulb is really out of focus with your reflector. 

As you can see in this example of a different light, a bulb that's not positioned properly can introduce a few extra colors into the beam. 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2880472&postcount=99

Outside of that posibility, people have stated that the L35 has a light green tint but that will shift to warm yellow after you get a few hours on the bulb.


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## windstrings (Apr 30, 2009)

Fat Boy said:


> I am not familar with HID lights, this is my first, is it normal to have a green hue in the middle of the beam? I thought I was seeing things so I had my kids look at it with me tonight and everyone saw a distinct green center patch at the very center of the beam and a yellowish color along the bottom edge. This does not seem to go away after warm up....maybe this is normal with HID lights???



Fatboy the HID's have material inside the bulb that gets vaporized when hit with the high voltage that takes a little time to mature and so sometimes does indeed give funny color anomalies. 
Some lights take a number of hours before this disappears completely.

But it shouldn't have anything to do with the performance or longevity... it pretty much comes with the territory, but its also pretty variable, based on which bulb you may get.

IN general, those artifacts are less and less the more you use it.


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## Fat Boy (Apr 30, 2009)

Thanks for the responses. Overall I like this light and each time I turn it on the kids yelp to turn off the bright light...that alone is fun


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## windstrings (Apr 30, 2009)

LOL! no doubt!

I haven't had this light long, but so far its the most usable in the sense that it not only has very bright spotting abilities, but most of my needs for a light around the house is light duty too. The LED is not something you have to hold in your mouth or other hand to get the job done because its elevated off the ground enough that it stays put on your target with an ability to project several feet being elevated like that.
If your working in or on a car, a small light or even a flashlight will either roll or fall into the cracks, that doesn't happen with this light.

Not to mention how light it is.

Its the "dream" light for long hikes, spelunking or night camping trips where you may be out extended days at a time because this thing will run forever on the LED's alone and your not likely to lose it either!

The only thing that would make it ultracool is if it was totally submersible for diving.


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## selfbuilt (Apr 30, 2009)

Fat Boy said:


> a yellowish color along the bottom edge. This does not seem to go away after warm up....maybe this is normal with HID lights???


I've noticed the same blue-green centre and yellow tint along the bottom edge on mine - see my L35 review: Titanium Innovations L35 HID Spotlight Review
You can see it a bit of the yellow tint along the bottom in the white wall beamshot (lowest exposure)

I'm something of an HID newbie myself, but everything I've read tells me it should lessen with time (it is presumably the metal salts inside the bulb). FYI, if you want to have a little fun with the kids, watch what happens if you rotate the light and some of that yellow material falls into the beam path. Personally, I prefer to leave them where they are (i.e. they are not too distracting down on the bottom, unless you shake the light about and they need to resettle).


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## windstrings (Apr 30, 2009)

I haven't tried it with my 35Watters yet, but with my 75Watt, its quite beautiful to look straight into the front of the reflector into the bulb immediately "after" you turn it off!
The bulb turns blue, purple with shades of red.

Just be careful, because if you l look " before" you turn it off, you will see a very bright light and then nothing at all!


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## brightnorm (May 3, 2009)

I'm sorry to report that my 4th run was only 68 minutes. Since my 2nd and third run were 100 minutes and 98 minutes I believe that my battery is not functioning properly and the light must be returned. Very disappointing.

Brightnorm


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## SwatDude (May 3, 2009)

brightnorm said:


> I'm sorry to report that my 4th run was only 68 minutes. Since my 2nd and third run were 100 minutes and 98 minutes I believe that my battery is not functioning properly and the light must be returned. Very disappointing.
> 
> Brightnorm


 
Was this after you left is sitting for some time??? Please see my post above.


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## BVH (May 3, 2009)

I returned just the battery, not the light.


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## MattK (May 3, 2009)

brightnorm said:


> I'm sorry to report that my 4th run was only 68 minutes. Since my 2nd and third run were 100 minutes and 98 minutes I believe that my battery is not functioning properly and the light must be returned. Very disappointing.
> 
> Brightnorm



Can you please give it another charge/run; 3 cycles isn't that many and since your other runs were in or close to spec it would give us a better idea if this is a problem or just an abheration on a single run.


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## brightnorm (May 3, 2009)

OK Matt, I'm charging it right now

Brightnorm


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## brightnorm (May 3, 2009)

SwatDude said:


> Was this after you left is sitting for some time??? Please see my post above.


 
Only for less than a day.

BN


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## MattK (May 3, 2009)

Cool - let me know!


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## Fat Boy (May 3, 2009)

brightnorm said:


> OK Matt, I'm charging it right now
> 
> Brightnorm


I wonder if you are having the same issue as me and when the LED show a green charge but it is only charged half way and you need to unplug and start over to get a REAL full charge.


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## brightnorm (May 4, 2009)

Just completed the 5th run: 66 minutes. It doesn't look too good but I'll try one more charge.



Fat Boy said:


> I wonder if you are having the same issue as me and when the LED show a green charge but it is only charged half way and you need to unplug and start over to get a REAL full charge.


If that is the case, the extended charging time would make the light unacceptable to me.

Brightnorm


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## Patriot (May 4, 2009)

Thanks stinks Brightnorm. Sorry to hear that you're having trouble. The good news....well, sort of good news, is that it probably just needs a battery. That seemed to fix BVH's.


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## nein166 (May 24, 2009)

Well after several untimed runs and long charges I now get about 2 minutes of runtime out of my light. I think I killed the battery by charging with the HID switch in the on position. :mecry: 
I've charged it and run it twice now (outside the light) and I'm getting 1-2 minutes after an 8 hour charge, but the pack is reading 12.05v. Only 1 green light on the indicator and putting it back on the charger only brought it down to 11.99v with only one green light still. So it looks like its time to cut open the pack and toss the charger, hopefully the ballast was not damaged by my error. 
Any advise on how to proceed?


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## Richie086 (May 24, 2009)

nein166 said:


> Well after several untimed runs and long charges I now get about 2 minutes of runtime out of my light. I think I killed the battery by charging with the HID switch in the on position.


 

I'd check to see if the charger is putting out before doing anything else. Perhaps the charger was damaged and the battery is fine.


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## Fat Boy (May 24, 2009)

> Any advise on how to proceed?


I think you are having a simular problem that I am having with the charging system giving or getting a false read that the battery is fully charged. When it shows the green full charge indicator unplug it and plug it back in and keep doing this till it actually has a full charge in the batteries by either measuring the current or pushing the battery indicator and seeing all the green lights on. Don't use it again till you get this "real" full charge, it works for me and I get about 105 minutes.


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## windstrings (May 24, 2009)

It sounds like your actually timing the runtime of the light as two minutes which means what the battery indicator does not really carry much weight as you are going by real runtime regardless of what the indicator says.

I would definitely check the charger first.... by charging it in the on position, you would discharge the battery "faster" than its being recharged... at any rate, the charge would never get a rest and so prob burn't out so it may still have proper voltage but can't carry any amperage or real current any more to do the job.

I had a "1 watt" access point in my house that runs 24/7 and it quit working... after testing, I discovered the power adapter that converts AC to DC was still putting out the correct voltage, but only enough amperage to run a couple of the lights and thats all, there was not enough power to run the fan that runs constantly for cooling, nor to power the transmit FET's that make signal.

Something similiar could be happening with your circuit.
Have you tried charging the batteries with an external power supply and hitting it with the proper voltage?

And when you run out of runtime does the battery still show good voltage "while still under load?"

I don't really understand enough about how the circuit really works in that light... I'm just guessing hoping to give you some ideas.


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## nein166 (May 25, 2009)

I am getting 15v and 400ma (pulsed) from the wall charger.
I charged the battery with the switch ON after depleting the battery. 
I never saw the HID turn on while the battery charged.
Now when I charge the pack will not hold capacity.
I am running the light with HID on after charging overnight and getting a 2 minute runtime.
I will be taking the battery in the car for a crusing charge tomorrow so more to come. 

Its very frustrating when your $300+ flashlight breaks and you lose a cluster of keys on the keyboard, Y,G,H,B,J - on-screen keyboarding is super-weak! Bad weekend!


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## nein166 (May 25, 2009)

Well it took a half hour to get a full charge indicator
Restarting the charge will put the led back to red for less than 1 minute.
Pressing the Test button shows a red,yellow and 1 green.
I ran the light and got 4 minutes of HID goodness before cutout


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## Fat Boy (May 25, 2009)

This doesnt seem right at all, and I can't see how having the HID switch on has anything to do with it but maybe. Did your light work fine when you first got it?


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## nein166 (May 25, 2009)

Fat Boy said:


> This doesnt seem right at all, and I can't see how having the HID switch on has anything to do with it but maybe. Did your light work fine when you first got it?


 
Yes I got three full 1 hour+ discharges out of it. I charged it in the car today and still no full charge. I believe the protection cuircut may be damaged.


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## nein166 (May 25, 2009)

I took off the label and took out two screws































Well this looks bad
5th cell in 3S2P ruptured










Time to order some new cells


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## brightnorm (May 25, 2009)

Would that type of malfunction represent a potential hazard?

Brightnorm


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## nein166 (May 25, 2009)

Good news is that Powerizer has the cells, but I wonder if I could cram some bigger cells in there by ditching the included charging solution and LED Indicator board. Charge using a hobby charger and Deans connector. All new battery pack may be the safest way for me now that one cell failed. I don't know how to tell if the normal looking cells have been damaged.


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## Fat Boy (May 25, 2009)

Are you thinking that the ruptured cell happened because you turned on the HID switch while charging??? This can't be right, if it is then there should be a big warning to leave the switch off or actually remove the battery pack while charging. This has got to be covered under warranty(I suppose if you hadn't opened it), I can't believe a failure for almost any reason should be so soon!


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## Fat Boy (May 25, 2009)

brightnorm said:


> Would that type of malfunction represent a potential hazard?
> 
> Brightnorm


That greatly concerns me about a possible fire hazard.


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## Patriot (May 25, 2009)

Fat Boy said:


> That greatly concerns me about a possible fire hazard.




This normally wouldn't be considered a fire hazard especially when there is a good cell balancing circuit. In other words, simply attempting to charge the cell to 4.2V wouldn't necessarily cause a problem.

The fires that I've seen or experienced at the RC field have either been caused by gross over charging or a punctured cell/pack where the wiring has been cut or sheered through. Regular water is all that's needed to put the fire out, though I do have a small halon extinguisher at my charging station now. 

Anyhow, I wouldn't consider this type of failure to be particularly dangerous or a hazard. I will say that it doesn't speak to highly of the battery pack quality itself though. Either the charging circuit failed or the cells themselves were poorly manufactured. I'm going to guess it wasn't the charging or cut-off circuit though. 

A 3 cell 6.4A li-po would often cost close $200 by itself. Taking that into consideration they have to cut some corners somewhere in order to sell the L35 for that price still make a fair profit. For various reasons, my own personal opinion is that the light would have been better served by 12 18650's but that adds weight and isn't as compact per capacity. I just don't feel that li-po in this low rate charge/discharge application serves any purpose other than to reduce some weight. If the pack were allowed to charge at .5 or .75C or more then it makes more sense but because the circuit charges at a normal li-ion rate it might as well use li-ion. Just my one cent.


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## Fat Boy (May 26, 2009)

> The fires that I've seen or experienced at the RC field have either been caused by gross over charging or a punctured cell/pack where the wiring has been cut or sheered through. Regular water is all that's needed to put the fire out, though I do have a small halon extinguisher at my charging station now.


Someone asked earlier in this thread if it was a good idea to charge this light unattended, with this information I would say NOT.


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## Patriot (May 26, 2009)

I would mostly agree that it should be within eye or earshot when charging, just like any li-ion or li-po light. I certainly wouldn't leave the house with any li-rechargeable recharging.


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## LuxLuthor (May 26, 2009)

An enclosed (& physically protected) spontaneously ruptured/swollen Lipo cell defect in a light that has seen very little use is not a good sign, and could lead to more significant "issues." I hope this is not a light that gets thrown around/dropped outside hiking. I'm not getting warm, fuzzy feelings from this thread.


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## MattK (May 26, 2009)

nein166 said:


> Good news is that Powerizer has the cells, but I wonder if I could cram some bigger cells in there by ditching the included charging solution and LED Indicator board. Charge using a hobby charger and Deans connector. All new battery pack may be the safest way for me now that one cell failed. I don't know how to tell if the normal looking cells have been damaged.



Ack. Sorry about the bad cell. 
Going forward anyone having a problem *please contact customer service via email*; DISASSEMBLING DOES VOID WARRANT. A single cell should never be replaced on a pack, it will never share the characterstics of the other batteries closely enough. Anyway nein, please contact customer service and we WILL take take of you on this but folks, please, do not disassemble your lights.



Fat Boy said:


> Are you thinking that the ruptured cell happened because you turned on the HID switch while charging??? This can't be right, if it is then there should be a big warning to leave the switch off or actually remove the battery pack while charging. This has got to be covered under warranty(I suppose if you hadn't opened it), I can't believe a failure for almost any reason should be so soon!


The power switch position isn't an issue AFAIK. 
Actually any failures are most likely to happen quite early.




Patriot said:


> This normally wouldn't be considered a fire hazard especially when there is a good cell balancing circuit. In other words, simply attempting to charge the cell to 4.2V wouldn't necessarily cause a problem.
> 
> The fires that I've seen or experienced at the RC field have either been caused by gross over charging or a punctured cell/pack where the wiring has been cut or sheered through. Regular water is all that's needed to put the fire out, though I do have a small halon extinguisher at my charging station now.
> 
> ...


Li-Po is safer than 18650's, lighter, packs higher energy density, survives more cycles and less cells represent less potential failure points. The main issue with a high charge rate as we're unable to source a CEC compliant power adapter of the right voltage/current and a 'custom' hig freq. adapter is too expensive to develop. We will continue to monitor the component market and when the opportunity arises will make a change.




Fat Boy said:


> Someone asked earlier in this thread if it was a good idea to charge this light unattended, with this information I would say NOT.


No lithium rechargeable product should EVER be charged unattended.



LuxLuthor said:


> An enclosed (& physically protected) spontaneously ruptured/swollen Lipo cell defect in a light that has seen very little use is not a good sign, and could lead to more significant "issues." I hope this is not a light that gets thrown around/dropped outside hiking. I'm not getting warm, fuzzy feelings from this thread.


This is the first failed cell that we've seen. Most of the other issues related to charging have been due to adapters not performing up to spec. As noted above, and as I should think you must be aware, a single cell in a pack is most likely to fail when relatively new.


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## Fat Boy (May 26, 2009)

Matt,
thanks for that post.


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## MattK (May 26, 2009)

Sure thing!


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## windstrings (May 26, 2009)

MattK said:


> No lithium rechargeable product should EVER be charged unattended.



I always leave my lithium stuff on charge, from my cell phone, electric shaver, my HID lights, LED lights, Lithium chargers with batteries inside for my P1D LED, rocket launcher..... I don't mind living dangerously. :candle:


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## Patriot (May 26, 2009)

windstrings said:


> Lithium chargers with batteries inside for my P1D LED, rocket launcher..... I don't mind living dangerously. :candle:




"rocket launcher" ...................LOL, yeah, I guess so!


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## nein166 (May 26, 2009)

MattK said:


> The power switch position isn't an issue AFAIK.
> Actually any failures are most likely to happen quite early.


 
Finding the power switch in the ON position is only reason I disassembled the pack. I assumed it was my fault the pack wouldn't take a charge. I will be in touch, Thanks MattK
Brian


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## windstrings (May 26, 2009)

Patriot said:


> "rocket launcher" ...................LOL, yeah, I guess so!




LOL! I was wondering if anybody besides the Feds would catch that!


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## LuxLuthor (May 26, 2009)

MattK said:


> This is the first failed cell that we've seen. Most of the other issues related to charging have been due to adapters not performing up to spec. As noted above, and as I should think you must be aware, a single cell in a pack is most likely to fail when relatively new.



Agreed that this is the first failed cell that we have heard about and seen reported. My issue with the failed cell is that when a LiPo is enclosed, people won't see the appearance of a bulging/leaking/ruptured LiPo cell, nor would most take theirs apart as Nein did to obtain certainty. 

*This may be a single failure of a large production line, or a harbinger of a larger quality control breakdown*. At the very least I would think it wise to notify everyone who purchased this item to be aware of this potential, and look for it. I really am not intending to blow this out of proportion, more to have people look for what Nein's posts illustrated. If his is the only one, bravo! Double bravo for your supporting any problems right up front!!! Way cool! 



MattK said:


> Li-Po is safer than 18650's, lighter, packs higher energy density, survives more cycles and less cells represent less potential failure points. The main issue with a high charge rate as we're unable to source a CEC compliant power adapter of the right voltage/current and a 'custom' hig freq. adapter is too expensive to develop. We will continue to monitor the component market and when the opportunity arises will make a change.



I'm not sure of the documented evidence of LiPo vs. Li-Ion (cobalt) 18650 safety, but I'm thinking of the RC experiences have a strong opinion about LiPo's in particular, even if most of their "events" occur during charging. Again, my lack of awareness is not meant to doubt your comment...but not to automatically accept it either. 

I didn't go back to find the output spec, but was assuming you are supplying a low amp charger which takes a long time due to the unavailability of cost-effective CEC compliant high amp output adapters, and that is an understandable compromise. In any case, this issue is where most of my lack of warm, fuzzy feelings originated.

It should not get lost by my posts to thank you, Matt, and also everyone else in this and the other N30-35 POB threads for what they are trying to contribute with this and the predecessor models...notably, mtbkndad, BVH, Patriot, windstrings, nein166. It is wonderful to have the ongoing participation and feedback of great members like all of you.


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## brightnorm (May 28, 2009)

Deleted


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## windstrings (May 29, 2009)

brightnorm said:


> Deleted



Whats wrong, cat got your tongue?


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## brightnorm (May 30, 2009)

My question had been answered. Besides, I don't like cats, with tongues or without. 

BN


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## windstrings (Jun 1, 2009)

LOL!..... ok, no "Cat chow yuk" for you!


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## nein166 (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks to BatteryJunction.Com I got my replacement Battery and I'll be charging it up today. 
Thanks MattK you guys are the best.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 11, 2009)

nein166 said:


> Thanks to BatteryJunction.Com I got my replacement Battery and I'll be charging it up today.
> Thanks MattK you guys are the best.



You can't ask anymore than that. Hats off to Matt's operation.


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## MattK (Jun 11, 2009)

nein166 said:


> Thanks to BatteryJunction.Com I got my replacement Battery and I'll be charging it up today.
> Thanks MattK you guys are the best.


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## nein166 (Jun 12, 2009)

Well after a 9 hour charge to 12.5v and 2 green lights I fired it up.
And the light ran for 109 minutes. I am so happy. Come to think of it I don't think I ever got more than an hour and fifteen minutes off the original battery. I think I was confused by the 110 minute runtime and thought 1:10 or 70 minutes was normal. I'll be giving it another charge during my shift later today. Again thanks MattK.

And I'd like to add that while I was at PF12 (Milkyspit's Gathering) I compared the L35 against 4Sevens' Polarion50. THe beam out of the polarion won and it was overall brighter by a few hundred lumens but, the L35 held up in distance and I could see the ground in front of me and the full peripheral. The Cone the L35 has in its beam is almost the same shape as the PH50 and can illuminate targets equally but you get to see alot more to the side with the L35. Such a great design. And a performance bargain. The color was also very close in comparison with the PH50 being slightly warmer, could have been the reflector though.


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## MattK (Jun 12, 2009)

Cool - glad it all worked out.

The Polarion's are a very nice product but at over $2K you could have like 6 L35's for that price and the L35 is much lighter and smaller.


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## windstrings (Jun 12, 2009)

And have LED use too for unbelievable runtimes and light duty close-up use.
And unless they changed things, the Lithium technology of the L35 is better.

Polarion is a nice product...., Although I "could" buy a Rolex watch if I really wanted it for class sakes alone, I don't because my Citizen Eco-drive Skyhawk does much more.

The very expensive lights of yesteryear will have to recalibrate prices if they want the market of the Non-elitist.

A 35W HID with Lithium Ion is no longer considered a rare commodity due to improvements in technology making it much more affordable.
Is the Polarion technically a better made product?....
If so.. just "how" much?...

thats up for discussion now.

As once upon a time there was no competition for the Polarion, hence they could demand such high prices. 
I definitely consider the L35 serious competition in light of the price.


Many will take offense to that, but thats reality.


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## MattK (Jun 12, 2009)

Wait until we release our 50W light..


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## BVH (Jun 12, 2009)

Matt, since the L35 is 35+ Watts to the bulb, I assume the 50 Watt'r will be 50+ to the bulb?


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## MattK (Jun 12, 2009)

Yes...sometimes. 

The Titanium Innovations L50 Locators will be here in about 3-4 weeks so I'll start a MP thread in ~2 weeks. 

PS - I think I already told you about this light on the phone a while back didn't I?


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## brightnorm (Jun 12, 2009)

I received my tested replacement battery from Jeff at Battery Junction several days ago. When that didn't seem to work out he sent me a replacement charger. We are still working on it and I'd like to commend him and the Battery Junction folks for hanging in there. It is a pleasure dealing with a first class outfit.

Brightnorm


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## windstrings (Jun 12, 2009)

MattK said:


> Yes...sometimes.
> 
> The Titanium Innovations L50 Locators will be here in about 3-4 weeks so I'll start a MP thread in ~2 weeks.
> 
> PS - I think I already told you about this light on the phone a while back didn't I?



When the thread actually gets started, I would appreciate a heads up on this thread... 
thanks


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## BVH (Jun 12, 2009)

Yes, but I completely forgot about it and any details you told me.


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## Patriot (Jun 12, 2009)

> MattK
> The Polarion's are a very nice product but at over $2K you could have like 6 L35's for that price and the L35 is much lighter and smaller.





windstrings said:


> The very expensive lights of yesteryear will have to recalibrate prices if they want the market of the Non-elitist.
> 
> A 35W HID with Lithium Ion is no longer considered a rare commodity due to improvements in technology making it much more affordable.
> Is the Polarion technically a better made product?....
> ...







No offense can be taken since it's obviously not personal right  I was just thinking of the differences that almost demand that the price of the Polarion be be several times higher. These two lights have many differences and I suspect that some of the things being attributed as "better" in a spotlight would actually be worse if you carried over the same thinking to edc lights. For example the L35 is lighter, but that's because it's plastic. Are plastics strong, consistent and inexpensive these days? Of course they are but how many people are carrying a plastic edc? Instead the preferred material are aluminum, Ti, or stainless. Next, it's expensive to make large lights waterproof. The larger the object the more difficult it is to make sure that it stays water proof. The L35 was never designed to go under water which is apparently no problem for the Polarion. Since dedicated underwater 35W HID lights start at the $800-900 range this benefit obviously doesn't come cheaply and probably has something to do with the Polarion's price. The Polarion reaches full brightness in about 4-5 seconds and actually goes 25% beyond maximum stated output by 7 seconds, before settling back down to nominal brighness. The L35 takes upwards of two minutes before the light meter no longer reads an increase. The 35W X1 is brighter, has better color, Osram bulb, is smaller dimentionally, charges faster, has comperable run-time, is waterproof, uses an all metal chassis, has a magnetic switch, HA finish, trouble free charging circuitry..etc. 

No one in their right mind can deny the value of a light like the L35 but I personally don't think Polarion has anything to worry about. There are plenty of professionals out there who demand the best where price just isn't a factor. Imagine if we had one light in the LED world that was head's and shoulders brighter than anything else, not even taking into account any other factor. People routinely pay a premium for that extra performance regardless of what they may actually need.


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## MattK (Jun 12, 2009)

No doubt the Polarion has advantages. I'm just tickled when our L35 is mentioned in the same 'breath'.


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## Patriot (Jun 12, 2009)

MattK said:


> No doubt the Polarion has advantages. I'm just tickled when our L35 is mentioned in the same 'breath'.





Absolutely! The N30 and now L35 are literally miracle lights when it comes to performance at a price point. The L35 even costs less than what is perhaps it's closest competitor the Acro RL-11. Next to the Acro, I don't think any other light comes remotely close to the L35s features. It's an anomaly light that highly favors the enthusiat consumer.


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## Isak Hawk (Jun 14, 2009)

L50?


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## nein166 (Jun 14, 2009)

L50 Locator, nice name. I'll have to start setting some money aside for Xmas time. Isn't Xmas in August? 
I don't know when I missed the L50 announcement 
MattK you really gotta let us know when these things are coming so we can get all worked up over them. 

Just letting you know the pack is charging up to 12.57v 
Looks like its not the charger, but I am taking the pack out to charge.


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## MattK (Jun 14, 2009)

I don't like to let info out too early on some stuff - plans change, etc so I don't typically announce a product until it's arrival is imminent - or at least until we're really into production.


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## brightnorm (Jun 15, 2009)

nein166 said:


> ...Just letting you know the pack is charging up to 12.57v ...


Is there some way to take a voltage reading without risking shorting out the battery, and without extracting the battery? 

Brightnorm


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## BVH (Jun 15, 2009)

There's no way of taking Voltage readings without removing the battery that I have found.


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## windstrings (Jun 15, 2009)

MattK said:


> I don't like to let info out too early on some stuff - plans change, etc so I don't typically announce a product until it's arrival is imminent - or at least until we're really into production.




Yea, you really hit your thumb again on this one!.....
You "know" you gonna get 20 questions over and over now!

Thats like saying you have a Christmas present for us but we can't see it till Christmas!


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## windstrings (Jun 16, 2009)

I used my L35 this morning to go fishing. After sitting it on the bow of the boat in the off position, it was inadvertently kicked over.
"no not in the water!"... anyway, after that it wouldn't work...not even the LED!

I took the battery out nad put back in several times to no avail.
I put power to the pins inside the light cavity that holds the battery and the light works perfect!

The pins are not lose at all and the ground spring looks and feels perfect.

While the battery is in, I can hit the light with the heel of my hand and the LED it momentarily come on "if turned on".. so there is a broken connection somewhere in the battery.

I sent it in this morning for rma, I hope they tell me what happened.
"do these batteries have circuit boards?" if so, I bet a solder joint cracked.


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## nein166 (Jun 18, 2009)

windstrings said:


> "do these batteries have circuit boards?" if so, I bet a solder joint cracked.


Take a peek at post #311


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## windstrings (Jun 18, 2009)

Oh yea!... thanks....

I wonder if the circuit board could be cushioned with some rubber spacers?

It really didn't hit hard... the surface it hit on was the fiberglass surface of my boat... cement would have been worse.

Any circuit board is vulnerable without some kind of protection.


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## Fat Boy (Jun 18, 2009)

My company sells medical devices and the circut boards are all protected from vibration and impact by the use of rubber spacers. In seven years and thousands of devices in the field getting very heavy use I have never seen a device fail because of damage to the circut board. Just an FYI


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## windstrings (Jun 18, 2009)

Since I can bang the light with my hand and get a momentary flash from the LED, thats my best guess.


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## Patriot (Jun 18, 2009)

I just noticed that this place also sells the L35:

http://www.tacticalleds.com/Titanium-Innovations-HID-Searchlights-s/167.htm

It caught me by surprise since I though it was a Battery Junction exclusive.


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## Marko (Jun 19, 2009)

windstrings said:


> The pins are not lose at all and the ground spring looks and feels perfect.
> 
> While the battery is in, I can hit the light with the heel of my hand and the LED it momentarily come on "if turned on".. so there is a broken connection somewhere in the battery.



Have You checked the power pin contacts inside the battery (kind of spring contacs), those might be 'loosened'. I had similar issue with my L30, when it came back from RMA; the battery was allready inside the lamp and perhaps it has moved a bit during transport, and I had to bend those spring contacts (inside battery) closer together to get L30 work again. So there just wasn't good enought contact with battery and the power pins, lamp flashes only when hitting it or pushing battery or turning it upside down (I only used LEDs for testing, I was worried that flashing might ruin the HID).


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## windstrings (Jun 19, 2009)

Marko said:


> Have You checked the power pin contacts inside the battery (kind of spring contacs), those might be 'loosened'. I had similar issue with my L30, when it came back from RMA; the battery was already inside the lamp and perhaps it has moved a bit during transport, and I had to bend those spring contacts (inside battery) closer together to get L30 work again. So there just wasn't good enough contact with battery and the power pins, lamp flashes only when hitting it or pushing battery or turning it upside down (I only used LEDs for testing, I was worried that flashing might ruin the HID).



The L35 doesn't has two pins approx 3/4" long, one for + and one for - , the negative one has a tiny little spring that protrudes out of the back of the battery incasement "in the light" thats maybe 1/4" long and it touches a metal pin "blunt and very short" (1/16"?) thats next to the negative pin hole on the battery.

If your talking about contact springs "inside the battery" as you mentioned... I would have to take the battery apart, I was trying to be good and not void the warranty.

But if the pin shafts that come out of the back of the encasement rides against "spring contacts" inside the battery, that would explain things. because if the battery has any slop at all, it could move whatever the pins
are resting against inside the battery.

But that battery fits so stinkin tight, I don't see how this could happen unless once its all the way in, there is still a bit of slop at the end inside the light.

Sounds like a fine tune modification that could correct the situation.

If you've seen a banana pin connector on the back of an amp, that would be a good alternative. The shaft rest inside a flexible metal female housing.


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## Marko (Jun 19, 2009)

windstrings said:


> If your talking about contact springs "inside the battery" as you mentioned... I would have to take the battery apart, I was trying to be good and not void the warranty.



Yep, those contact springs caused the problem at my L30. I managed to bend those closer together with very small screwdriver without opening the battery.


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## windstrings (Jun 19, 2009)

I wonder if the N30 is different than the L35?

There is no springs I can bend or access in the battery as the holes are very tiny... about the size that a coat hanger wire would fit in.

One could bend the pins inside the housing of the light, but they are very stiff and strong and it seems that would only be a temporary fix if the issue is inside the battery with something bending or moving around in there.


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## Marko (Jun 20, 2009)

It might be different, unfortanately I can't find pictures of inside N30 battery anymore, maybe I have lost those with my one external USB disk (which broke down). :thinking: Anyway those connectors are weak link at N30, and I presumed that it is similar connectors at L35. Anybody know if it is different?


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## BVH (Jun 20, 2009)

They are nearly exactly the same. Both the positive and negative contacts of both lights are approximately 1/8" diameter pins that are about 3/8" long. The only difference is the secondary negative contact of each light. On the N30, it's a spring-loaded contact with a flat disk/coin shaped end. On the L35, it's a spring loaded, bullet nose shaped contact. 

N30






L35


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## daveman (Jun 23, 2009)

Where are those L50 locators?


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## Marko (Jun 23, 2009)

Thanks BVH.

Here is picture of battery contacts, inside and outside. Outside one is a bit out of focus, but it is possible to to bend those contacts with some sharp tool (there is a small gap), I think I used very small screwdriver or perhaps dental probe (dental probe is actually very usefull tool). 

Inside batterypack





Outside


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## daveman (Jun 28, 2009)

MattK said:


> Yes...sometimes.
> 
> The Titanium Innovations L50 Locators will be here in about 3-4 weeks so I'll start a MP thread in ~2 weeks.
> 
> PS - I think I already told you about this light on the phone a while back didn't I?


 
It has been two weeks now. Any news?


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## MattK (Jun 29, 2009)

Very soon - I just got back from vacation


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## cue003 (Jun 29, 2009)

Vacation... you should be well rested...  Lets get on it. lol


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## windstrings (Jun 29, 2009)

MattK said:


> Very soon - I just got back from vacation





 What!... no one here gave you permission to take a vacation... whats up with that? 

But seriously folks..... we all need a vacation about every 3 months to keep our sanity.

Anyway, I'm still awaiting the outcome of my light..... I sent it in a while back now, I called once to see whats up... they said they had it and it had to be tested... not sure what that means... it only takes about 3 seconds to know it doesn't work. I'm not sure why myself as the customer am supposed to wait while they figure it out. 

I would say "why don't they send me a new one and then they can test that one all they want on their time instead of mine?".. but I see they are back ordered till late July on your site.


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## BVH (Jun 30, 2009)

Hey Matt, you just had a vacation when the L35 came out. One per year, you've already met your quota. You must be getting into next years vacation???


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## brightnorm (Jun 30, 2009)

I sent mine in too. Hopefully I will receive a trouble-free light. I'm sure these problems affect only a small percentage of L35's.

Brightnorm


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## MattK (Jun 30, 2009)

No rest for the weary eh? 

We have new batches of N30's L35's, Illuminators and Mega Illuminators coming ~ late July. The main 'delay' is packaging stuff - everything is getting fancy 4 color boxes and shipping; it's a big shipment and is coming via ocean freight. 

We asked the factory for spare L35 batteries (for warranty) and instead of sending assembled packs they sent us the component cells/PCB - a bit of a miscommunication. We're working on correcting this now.

The L50's are shipping to us around the end of this week and are shipping via air so they'll arrive in < 2 weeks.


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## windstrings (Jun 30, 2009)

MattK said:


> We asked the factory for spare L35 batteries (for warranty) and instead of sending assembled packs they sent us the component cells/PCB - a bit of a miscommunication. We're working on correcting this now.
> 
> The L50's are shipping to us around the end of this week and are shipping via air so they'll arrive in < 2 weeks.



thanks for the feedback Matt.
I PM'd you


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## daveman (Jun 30, 2009)

If the L50s are already on the way then you should be able to give us some spec now? Runtime, battery, size, weight, price. Beamshots?


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## Patriot (Jun 30, 2009)

daveman said:


> If the L50s are already on the way then you should be able to give us some spec now? Runtime, battery, size, weight, price. Beamshots?





+1 to that. I realize there aren't pictures or anything but any description would be great.


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## Joe_torch (Jun 30, 2009)

Patriot said:


> +1 to that. I realize there aren't pictures or anything but any description would be great.


+2. Just can't wait to see some high quality & relatively affordable high power HID.


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## daveman (Jul 1, 2009)

We demand specs.


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## MattK (Jul 1, 2009)

Take a look in the dealers forum on CPFMP


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## Patriot (Jul 1, 2009)

BVH, when you think the time is appropriate and if you get the chance, would you mind starting a (L50 discussions) thread? You did such a great job with this one and it's very nice to have you lead these off. I'm eager to start discussing it now but don't want to sabotage this tread.

:thanks:

Paul


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## BVH (Jul 1, 2009)

Paul, sure, be happy to.


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## windstrings (Jul 2, 2009)

BVH said:


> Paul, sure, be happy to.



Make sure you put a link to it... I don't see one as of this morning.


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## lightheway (Jul 27, 2009)

BVH please check your messages thanks


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## Patriot (Jul 27, 2009)

windstrings said:


> Make sure you put a link to it... I don't see one as of this morning.




CajunJosh purchased one so maybe he'll start a thread. I had originally asked BVH to start one because I figured he'd be one of the first to get it. It turns out that neither of us are getting one in the near future and I didn't want to be a cheese ball and start a main thread on a light that I didn't own. Hopefully an owner or reviewer will take thread "dibs."


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## CajunJosh (Jul 27, 2009)

Tracking Number:1ZYE7073039933**** 
Status: In Transit - On Time 
Scheduled Delivery Date:07/29/2009 
Shipped To: AUSTIN, TX, US 
Shipped/Billed On:07/23/2009
TypeackageService:
GROUNDWeight:15.70 Lbs

Location	Date	Local Time	Description
HODGKINS , IL , US	07/27/2009	9:26 A.M.	DEPARTURE SCAN


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## Phaserburn (Jul 28, 2009)

Matt, any news on the L35 diffuser?


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## MattK (Jul 28, 2009)

In production or made at this point but we have a large shipment coming from that factory that won't ship until everything is made - new N30's, new Illuminators, new Mega Illuminators, more L35's and the L35 accessories.


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## Patriot (Jul 28, 2009)

Matt, which light are you referring to as the "Illuminator?"


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## MattK (Jul 29, 2009)

An updated version of this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/118392

bigger battery, new finish/packaging, etc...


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## BVH (Jul 29, 2009)

A very nice but somewhat little known GEM. I have an original and would never sell it.


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## Patriot (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks Matt. I was wondering if that was it but I always knew it by just Amondotech or 3152.  

You've got quite the line up now.

3152 Illuminator
N30
L35
L50

Something for everyone's price range and all completely different. None of them even use the same battery chemistry.


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## BVH (Jul 29, 2009)

Matt, hopefully, you're using a lighter Lithium or LiPo battery? Weight is really the only downside of this light.


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## CajunJosh (Jul 29, 2009)

Patriot said:


> Thanks Matt. I was wondering if that was it but I always knew it by just Amondotech or 3152.
> 
> You've got quite the line up now.
> 
> ...


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## Patriot (Jul 29, 2009)

BVH said:


> Matt, hopefully, you're using a lighter Lithium or LiPo battery? Weight is really the only downside of this light.




This made me think about the origin of the 3152 and POB. It's basically the size that it is because it was designed around a 7A SLA. By outfitting it with a new battery chemistry you end up with a lot of dead space, with the only practical difference from other lights being the larger reflector. It just seems that results in a lot of uneccessary bulk behind the reflector, unless it's filled with battery. Since SLA is too heavy you'd of course fill it with li-po or somthing else but this of course drives the price point well up. It almost seems to be "doomed" so to speak to it's original SLA concept. The closer it gets in price to the N30, the more attractive the N30 looks, in which case why not just choose it instead? I'm certainly not suggesting any idea's are wrong, just thinking out loud I guess.


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## MattK (Jul 30, 2009)

Patriot basically nailed it. The Illuminator and Mega Illuminator will continue to use SLA batteries - they're heavy but cost effective. For those wanting lighter/smaller lights we offer the N30, L35 and L50.

That said, the Illuminator and Mega Illuminator are being upgraded to 8.5Ah batteries, new plastics and new packaging. There's still a market and an application for these types of lights.



CajunJosh said:


> You've got quite the line up now.
> 
> 3152 Illuminator
> N30
> ...



There's also the 3515 Mega Illuminator


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## Fat Boy (Aug 13, 2009)

I can personally say that I have been VERY satisfied with the customer service and support for BatteryJunction dealing with the L35 and other purchases. I would recommend and will and have purchased from them on a ongoing basis.


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## windstrings (Aug 13, 2009)

Here Here!... I agree!..:twothumbs its a totally cool little light with a big bite and all my customer service was superb!


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## MattK (Aug 13, 2009)

Thnaks guys!


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## tab665 (Aug 25, 2009)

hey all, im new to HID's, i generally stick to the LED forums. ive been wanting a light that can put out a few thousand lumens and it seems, for the time being, LED arent going to get there anytime soon without a crazy custom or mod. ive tried to read all the posts in this 14 page monster of a thread, and the posts seem to do more with the battery/charger than performance or quality. i was wondering if anyone knew if the bugs have gotten worked out of the charging and battery issues, or if anyone wanted to comment on the performance/quality.


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## Patriot (Aug 25, 2009)

I can't comment directly since I don't own the L35 but basically it's beam quality is on par with the N30 or perhaps a bit better due the the improved reflector. 

I haven't heard many complaints about the battery or charging system "quality" as I'm sure it's close to or better than any light in that price range. My only initial gripe was that the battery took too long to charge but not due to any quality concern. I have a lot of experience with li-po batteries flying RC aircraft and we typically charge these batteries at a much higher rate. Although the charging rate selected for the L35 is a bit slow, the bonus is that is should last a great number of cycles 500+ perhaps. 

The N30 and L35 are often regarded as the best performing lights for your dollar.


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## brightnorm (Aug 27, 2009)

Having gone through battery exchanges and tweeks to resurrect my malfunctioning L35, I was finally asked to return it in exchange for a tested new one. It is now 4 months later and although I am still without an L35, I am hopeful that when Scott returns from vacation on September 3rd the L35 stock will be replenished and I will finally be able to join the ranks of satisfied L35 owners.

Brightnorm


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## BVH (Oct 30, 2009)

Time to dig this thread up. The L35 is such a great low to moderate priced and great performing little light. I finally got around to checking the focus as it was received by me. It came with 1 shim moving the bulb out of the reflector. I took the bezel off the light body, removed the two retaining screws and removed the shim. Then I put the bulb back in place loosely with the screws backed out about 4 threads. I held the light body between my knees, the reflector with my left hand and moved the bulb in and out with my right hand. Low and behold, the best focus was with the bulb all the way in. It might even be better if the bulb could go further into the reflector but I'm not going to do any destructive mods to check. So I tightened the screws and @ 20' from my garage door:

Before: The intense corona was 42" in diameter.
After: The intense corona was 35" in diameter.

In comparison with one of my N30's at its best focus, the L35 ended up about 4-5" smaller. The N30 had two shims installed as received and I ended up removing one. As with all my N30's and the L35, the Hotspot is about 1 - 2" below the center of the corona as you can see in the stopped down shot. Without deforming the reflector or the bulb base face, I can't fix this but it's good enough.

.....................................................N30.........................................L35








Stopped down:






In-person, the improved L35 reflector gives the outer diameter of the 1st corona much more precise definition


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## windstrings (Oct 30, 2009)

Your the man BVH...... you just couldn't stand not tinkering could you!....

Now I have to try it!....

*Whats your feeling for distance throw?*
For the most part I feel extra corona and spill is a waste for a light powerful enough to see great distances.....

If I want a lantern, I"ll use one... until then, its all about throw baby!


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## BVH (Oct 30, 2009)

windstrings said:


> If I want a lantern, I"ll use one... until then, its all about throw baby!



I'm right there with ya, Windy!

Just tried them at about 250 to 300 yards and there is a very noticeable increase in brightness of the L35. However, I have not taken Watts to the bulb measurements of both lights so I don't know how much more power the L35 is providing to the bulb, if any.


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## windstrings (Oct 30, 2009)

Iay.... Liiike it!

But I can see why they chose the setting they did because it was a choice of brightness verses area covered... it was a good balance for most applications and a good compromise of balance to please all applications....

However if you want to see even farther into the distance without much regard for having as big a corona, removing the shims does the trick!

Mine had "two" shims... I was surprised how thin they were. The beam is much smoother and perfect now.. just smaller and brighter.
It quite amazing just how precise these lights are do cast the beam they cast.... I'm glad I wasn't the one who had to build it!.... they did a good job.

I set my wire on botton BVH so my shadow would be on top... this gives me the illusion there is no shadow at all from the wire because the top of the view usually either goes into the sky, or hits very distant objects making it unnoticeable and the foreground below is perfect.

thanks for the tips on the phone as I was getting off track.

I was trying to take the screws out of the battery holder before I realized that it didn't feel right.

So others don't repeat the same mistakes I was doing:

1. Basically take the one small screw out of the bottom of the bezel "in front bottom"

2. Now turn the bezel "clockwise" and it will turn about 3/4 inch and unlock to easily pull out.

BEWARE that the little screw goes into a tiny holder with hardened glue that fits over a little plastic thingy inside the light housing...... "you can lose it!"

3. You will then be able to see the two small screws holding the bulb into the bezel housing.... unscrew both of them.

4. Without touching the bulb at all with your oily skin "if you do, you must clean with acetone or at least alcohol" slip the two shims off the bulb base over the bulb.

5. Now put the bulb back in its bezel holder that drops it back into the back of the reflector and put the two screws back in.
I would recommend tightening the first one loosely then the other and work back and forth till they are both tightened equally.

6. Decide where you want your shadow "from the stabilizing insulated wire that runs down the bulb. If you want your shadow in top of your field of view, make sure the wire is on bottom of the reflector, and vice versa if you want your shadow on top. Simply flip the reflector "with the bulb already mounted inside" to make your choice.

7. Now put your little screw backstop "thingy" back onto its little holder and position your reflector a little off center so that when you slip the bezel back on and turn it to align with the screw hole again "on bottom" your wire will be dead center on top or bottom "based on which you chose".
The threads of the little backstop goes in back.

It may take a little trial and error to get it perfect.

The risk if giving detailed instructions makes the process seem much more complicated, but its actually very simple once you know about the couple of pitfalls to watch out for.

I want to thank BVH for improving an already great light for even more throw!!!!

I no longer own my Barnburner to compare it to "I bet BVH still has his!" but I feel it now approaches the brightness of the 50W or even the 75W HID Barnburner on a much smaller scale.

What I Mean by smaller scale is that while the surface brightness of the hotspot and smaller corona now seems more intense approaching that of the higher wattage HID's, the overall coverage area, or total square feet of area illuminated at a given distance is smaller.

Lumens are lumens... there are only so many to go around and you can allocate them how you like... spread out or focused.

Without damaging or permanently modding the light, this is a very cool way to change the functional use of this light by making it an even more directional spotlight!

Way to go BVH!


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## Patriot (Oct 31, 2009)

I love your tests Bob. This was a really good one since there has been a lot of speculation about light bulb shimming recently. Your L35's beam is down right killer and makes me wish I owned one now. The color is excellent as well and seems very slightly cooler than the N30 which I like. 

Thanks very much for you excellent research and pictures.


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## windstrings (Oct 31, 2009)

So far, realizing I don't own all the lights out there, I do feel the L35 has the most bang for the buck in terms of features, performance, practicle usability and killer throw for the money.

Anything cheaper seems to have far less in all those areas and anything better is big bucks! The N30 would obviously be the close competitor with its NiMh battery instead of LiIon.


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## Patriot (Oct 31, 2009)

Very small point but the L35 is li-po powered.  I think you guys are trying to get me to buy one. Maybe it's good that they're not available.....:laughing:


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## windstrings (Oct 31, 2009)

Patriot said:


> Very small point but the L35 is li-po powered.  I think you guys are trying to get me to buy one. Maybe it's good that they're not available.....:laughing:


Yea... Yeah... that too!.... makes one of the lightest in its class.


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## BVH (Oct 31, 2009)

Patriot, my "normal" exposure above, does not reflect the much higher amount of ambient light in the garage at the time the shot was taken. I had the camera on manual and used its light meter to set exposure time and aperture. It uses a bar graph and I had the needle centered. It seems all the pics taken in manual come out darker than "real". Any ideas?


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## windstrings (Oct 31, 2009)

The Camera prob thinks its daytime or lights are too bright and trying to compensate to give you a good "average" intensity picture.

If you have digital, its easier..... just put your camera on aperture priority so the shutter speed is fixed and keep opening your aperture until the results looks right to your eyes based on what it really looked like.

You could do it also by extending the shutter speed but things would get blurry.


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## Patriot (Oct 31, 2009)

*EDIT:*



> *Windy
> *or lights are too bright and trying to compensate to give you a good "average" intensity picture.


Exactly.

I didn't see Windy's comment at first.





BVH said:


> Patriot, my "normal" exposure above, does not reflect the much higher amount of ambient light in the garage at the time the shot was taken. I had the camera on manual and used its light meter to set exposure time and aperture. It uses a bar graph and I had the needle centered. It seems all the pics taken in manual come out darker than "real". Any ideas?




Yeah Bob, Your camera is likely metering just off of the center most point of the picture frame. Assuming it's metering and focusing from the center of the sensor it's going to do it's best to tame down the raging fire in the middle...where the beam centers are. The way around this is to turn the lights on, point the camera down at that bag of salt or whatever it is, meter on that subject and center the bar graph then "lock" the exposure, return to the centering your beams in the middle of the frame, now with the exposure locked, take your picture. This will allow the peripheral areas of the shot to be exposed properly but the beam centers are going to be way over exposed mind you. Film and CCD's aren't capable of perfect exposure throughout the entire frame of the shot. The only way around this that I know of is through a fairly recent picture sequence and imaging process called HDR. 

The practical way around this without processing if you desire a perfect exposure for both the walls and the hot spots would be to just take two pictures. One picture like you did, the other picture with the method I described and then post them both for reference. If your garage door had been opened and the hot spots further away the camera would render both the spill light in the garage and the beam centers a bit more accurately. This is because the extremes between light are dark has been reduced. 

By the way, I thought your shot was perfect so if you took a second picture just to share what the light was light in the garage, that's the bonus material. 

Paul


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## MattK (Nov 13, 2009)

BVH said:


> Time to dig this thread up. The L35 is such a great low to moderate priced and great performing little light. I finally got around to checking the focus as it was received by me. It came with 1 shim moving the bulb out of the reflector. I took the bezel off the light body, removed the two retaining screws and removed the shim. Then I put the bulb back in place loosely with the screws backed out about 4 threads. I held the light body between my knees, the reflector with my left hand and moved the bulb in and out with my right hand. Low and behold, the best focus was with the bulb all the way in. It might even be better if the bulb could go further into the reflector but I'm not going to do any destructive mods to check. So I tightened the screws and @ 20' from my garage door:
> 
> Before: The intense corona was 42" in diameter.
> After: The intense corona was 35" in diameter.
> ...



WOW - that's an amazing improvement. I need to email the factory!


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## windstrings (Nov 13, 2009)

MattK said:


> WOW - that's an amazing improvement. I need to email the factory!



I little lever that pushed the bulb back and forth would be cool for focus ability.


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## MattK (Nov 13, 2009)

The L50 does that...and so will the L70.


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## Border (Nov 16, 2009)

MattK said:


> ...and so will the L70.


Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in...

I've heard the rumors. Please, elaborate!


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## MattK (Nov 16, 2009)

It's actually quite simple: think L50 with a dual ouput 35/70W ballast.


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## Border (Nov 16, 2009)

MattK said:


> It's actually quite simple: think L50 with a dual ouput 35/70W ballast.



Sounds great - really great! :naughty:

...but how about stuff like price tag, run time, estimated time of arrival, pictures, beamshots and so forth?


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## MattK (Nov 16, 2009)

All coming shortly...in the MP.


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## Border (Nov 25, 2009)

MattK said:


> All coming shortly...in the MP.



Still waiting impatiently...


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 25, 2009)

Matt, is the short in your _shortly_ as short as my ability to wait for new lights? 

Must have L70


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## windstrings (Nov 25, 2009)

PhantomPhoton said:


> Matt, is the short in your _shortly_ as short as my ability to wait for new lights?
> 
> Must have L70




Maybe a waiting list or even prepurchase at a discount?


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## MattK (Nov 25, 2009)

Mid-Late January - I'll start a MP thread soon.


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## windstrings (Nov 25, 2009)

MattK said:


> Mid-Late January - I'll start a MP thread soon.



That will give people time to recoup from Christmas and buy themselves a late Christmas present!


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## dudemar (Nov 25, 2009)

windstrings said:


> That will give people time to recoup from Christmas and buy themselves a late Christmas present!



If MattK keeps this up I might have to start wearing Depends...

WHERE WILL IT END????

lovecpflovecpflovecpf


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## windstrings (Nov 25, 2009)

dudemar said:


> If MattK keeps this up I might have to start wearing Depends...
> 
> WHERE WILL IT END????
> 
> lovecpflovecpflovecpf




Theres always next Christmas too! :devil:


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## dudemar (Nov 25, 2009)

True, but by then the L90 (or dare I say L100) will be out, and my wallet will really go


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## windstrings (Nov 25, 2009)

dudemar said:


> True, but by then the L90 (or dare I say L100) will be out, and my wallet will really go




You can always sell yours to upgrade as long as you don't mind a little loss for your fun.


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## XeRay (Nov 25, 2009)

More like 45 + 5 watts / 70 watt will be possible. The bulb they will very likely use will not work down below 40 watts. Also, ballast heat management will be important and difficult to manage in that plastic housing with a larger capacity battery.


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## Patriot (Nov 25, 2009)

XeRay said:


> More like 45 + 5 watts / 70 watt will be possible. The bulb they will very likely use will not work down below 40 watts. Ballast heat management will be important and difficult to manage in that plastic housing with a larger capacity battery.




I'm not possitive, but I think BVH's 100W ballast Blitz was verified at 84W and 35W output. I personally don't understand why that would or would not be possible but I am curious.


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## XeRay (Nov 25, 2009)

Patriot said:


> I'm not possitive, but I think BVH's 100W ballast Blitz was verified at 84W and 35W output. I personally don't understand why that would or would not be possible but I am curious.


 
It is the specific bulb that is the primary issue, the bulb flickers below 40 watts and will not stay lit especially as it ages. This bulb was made for ~70 watt operation. Driving an Asian bulb made for 35 or even "claimed" 50 watts to 85 watts does not have the same issues but would have very poor life expectancy.


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 27, 2009)

Personally whether the "low" is 35W or 45W doesn't matter much to me. Though I do appreciate the insight given by such knowledgeable members here. 
I'm just happy to see the potential of a 70W hand-held HID finally available to the plebeian population.

So happy in fact that I'm considering breaking my rule. Normally I'd never consider using a credit card to buy a light for personal use. However if MattK can deliver the L70 at a good lumen per dollar value then I may very well order one even if I haven't saved up enough of my disposable income money.

I am also concerned about the plastic housing. However I have confidence that it will be worked out. MattK has stood by his product for me in the past when I had an issue. So I have very few qualms about buying from him as I know he'll make it right.


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## MattK (Nov 27, 2009)

Thanks for the vote of confidence PhantomPhoton.


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## windstrings (Nov 27, 2009)

PhantomPhoton said:


> I am also concerned about the plastic housing. However I have confidence that it will be worked out. MattK has stood by his product for me in the past when I had an issue. So I have very few qualms about buying from him as I know he'll make it right.



The Plastic housing is pretty bulletproof unless you plan on making a practice of dropping off cliffs.. should be no worries.


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## BVH (Nov 27, 2009)

I do not recall hearing of any "case" issues involving Xeray's lights over the years, which uses, I believe, the same case.


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## XeRay (Nov 27, 2009)

windstrings said:


> The Plastic housing is pretty bulletproof unless you plan on making a practice of dropping off cliffs.. should be no worries.


 
If you read my post again you will realize I was not criticizing the plastic housing. What I was trying to say (short version) is that the battery capacity should not be extended beyond a max of about 1 hour during 70 watt operation. The battery protects the ballast from getting too hot (limited runtime), when operated at 70 watts continuously until the battery is exhausted. If the housing was all or more aluminum around the ballast, a much larger heatsink would be available and a larger capacity battery would be OK for longer continuos 70 watt operation.

We "should" know, we have used that same basic housing for quite a few years and it was used for the 75 watt XeRay. I would never consider offering a larger battery for a 70-80 watt configuration in that Plastic housing unless it was designed to force the unit back to the low power setting once the ballast reaches about 70-75C inside the ballast. We added the aluminum bottom cover (our design) to help that problem but it is still not enough. We "maxed out" that plastic housing design with that battery capacity. The difference between 75 and 70 watts is too small to change the situation.


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 27, 2009)

windstrings said:


> The Plastic housing is pretty bulletproof unless you plan on making a practice of dropping off cliffs.. should be no worries.



Good to know. I was also unaware that Barnburners had pretty much the same case. I apparently have no cause for concern. :thumbsup: Thanks for setting me straight.


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## windstrings (Nov 27, 2009)

Progress comes no matter what. Some of the best people to figure out an improvement to the mouse trap are the ones who built the first one.
This is why you see some of the same cases and parts on a newer light.

However, often there is little motivation when a company has the market on a an item or service so someone else has to break the mold and make better before the public gets to benifit.

How long did we drive buggy poorly made cars until we got imports?
Then when the imports came in, it forces American made cars to get their act together or lose the market completely.

Thats what makes free commerce great. And now its on a global level.

No matter how great a product you make if you want your company to remain notable, you have to be your own best competition.. if not, someone else will do it for you and detract the fame and the glory away from your company.

No matter who comes out with what, there will always be better around the corner.

I admire companies who strive to improve there own product at the risk of making their existing product obsolete... but if they dont' do it, someone else will.

Matt has done just that. The result is a nice spread of lights that fit almost any budget or need.

Its true, when the L70 comes out, people will think twice before buying the L50. But IMO opinion thats what makes the choice great. Its always a balance of cost, price, services, quality etc.

The great giants that tried to corner the market are either no more, or had to integrate with another to exist. I think of Southwestern Bell, At&T and many others.

Good job for staying cutting edge and current with the market Matt!
There are other great companies out here on cpf too... like 4 sevens and many others.

The L35 is still one of the greatest lights for the price bar none.
Anything cheaper falls way short in many areas.

No matter how many cannons I have around the house, I'll always need my pistol and rifle.


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## MattK (Nov 28, 2009)

Thanks windstrings - we've worked hard to bring the best selection of HID's to the marketplace - it's nice when folks notice.


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## Patriot (Nov 28, 2009)

MattK said:


> we've worked hard to bring the best selection of HID's to the marketplace - it's nice when folks notice.




No question about that. No one offers a wider larger or wider array of HID products at reasonable prices. The quality of them has always proven solid as well.


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## MattK (Dec 9, 2009)

L70's are coming in ~35 days


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## PhantomPhoton (Dec 9, 2009)

MattK said:


> L70's are coming in ~35 days









I'll look forward to your announcement and further details in the Marketplace.

Are more L35's going to be in stock around then too?


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## MattK (Dec 9, 2009)

Yes - L35's N30's, Filter kits, Illuminators and Mega Illuminators are all coming mid-January - along with a FEW new HID's.


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## Parker VH (Dec 9, 2009)

It looks like Christmas may come a little late for me, in the form of an L70.:thumbsup:


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## Patriot (Dec 9, 2009)

MattK said:


> Yes - L35's N30's, Filter kits, Illuminators and Mega Illuminators are all coming mid-January - along with a FEW new HID's.




Very cool to see the N30 once again offered.....soon anyhow. If I'm not mistaken, it's hasn't been available for at least 6-12 months. It's hard when new people are looking for the perfect light and N30 immediately comes to minds, but then you hesitate to mention it because you know the interested party can't acquire them. I still can't think of any better light under $300.


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