# LIONCUB UPDATE THREAD



## MR Bulk (Mar 4, 2005)

*UPDATE 3-16-05:

First photo of a complete LionCub body:







Of course more cuts are still to be made but this is an exact representation, aside from the finish, of how an assembled Cub will look... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

************************************************************

UPDATE 3-10-05:

Got some new pictures for you, both actual photographs of some LionCub parts now knurled, as well as CAD renderings of the upcoming LionHead accessory.

In this picture you can see the five grip bands created on the LionCub body now that knurling has been applied:






Note the teeny lil' diamond points all a-starin' back up atcha...

Here is one that just got done, still chucked up on the CNC lathe and ready to be parted:







A pic just to show there are indeed more brothers and sisters where these came from, all due to be born shortly:







But wait - what's this? Why sit around waiting while one project is going on, when we could be working on a follow up? So here are a couple of 3D renderings on the upcoming LionHead, which will transform the Cub into a light for ALL reasons:











I personally like the chunky, no-nonsense look, like a little Lion King on - steroids... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

This beamshot of a proto LionHead on a Cub test mule graphically illustrates the throw from an Lh-equipped Cub. It will literally transform the Cub into something that replaces just about every other light I have:






It quite cleanly outthrows the Space Needle II...

Hmmm...Big Sale on my Old Lights right after the Cubs ship...? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

************************************************************

UPDATE 3-8-05:

The 200 PWM boards for the LionCub, programmed with the latest V.2 interface firmware, have just made their grand entrance to Hawaii...






************************************************************

UPDATE 3-7-05:

The first couple of pieces to the LionCub body rolled off the CNC lathes today:











The battery tube's theme was designed to be reminiscent of prior MR Bulk™ custom-bodied lights such as the VIP and LionHeart, by adding a ridged area where the light would normally be gripped, with knurling of the tops of these ridges to create separate grip bands.

The yet-to-be-made final body piece, the bezel, will carry the ridged theme as well, except they will remain smooth to create contrast while at the same time adding interest to the overall look. "This ain't no twist-on light, sonny".

Sheesh, I feel like an automobile exterior designer now...*
************************************************************

Here is the proportionally correct CAD diagram of the body shape for the upcoming LionCub:








Although not shown here, there will be a cutout milled into one edge of the circumferential curvature of the bottom flare to create a lanyard passage. It is designed to still allow full, flat tailstanding ability.

The slimmed waist section will be the only knurled area. Top sections will remain smooth to allow for logo and inscription etching, as well as not interfering with the chamfered switch cutout. The switch is still located in the central body component (hereafter referred to as the Control Module).

The thickness of the integral heatsink (visible as the solid top section of the Control Module) has been made thicker than the LionHeart's to further improve thermal conductivity.

There are three o-ringed joints as in the LionHeart; however, the o-ring of the battery tube has been relocated to create a bore seal with the Control Module as opposed to the previous edge seal of the LH. This completely eliminates o-ring friction against the circuit board and ensures no twisting force will occur to cause mislocation of the switch, while still providing full waterproofing.

The overall length is tentatively ~2.98 inches.


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## Cones (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Picture (CAD)*

Excellent!

It's got the cool flared tail end like a certain other small light.


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## modamag (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Picture (CAD)*

Wow, nice charlie. 
I like the waterproofing stuff.
I've been raining quite a bit here in CA.


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## nethiker (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Picture (CAD)*

Great! Thanks Charlie. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif

Now to update my paper cut-out.

Greg


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## inluxication (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Picture (CAD)*

[ QUOTE ]
*Cones said:*
Excellent! It's got the cool flared tail end like a certain other small light. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Flared tail, knurling just where you want it, and the expected (from MR B) details like waterproofing and improved heatsinking. I'm still hoping for a minimal logo -- maybe just the maker/s' name/s. Anyway, it looks purdy. Thanks MR B for the preview.


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## Catman10 (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Picture (CAD)*

Looks great! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


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## MR Bulk (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Picture (CAD)*

Oh yeah, there'll be a logo all right - in fact I'm finishing up the final touches on it right now and should be able to post something here today/tonight. Also the new tradition of having the "Made In Hawaii" will be intact, as well as the "CPF LE" lettering and the "0xx of 100" serializing, etc.


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## Codeman (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Picture (CAD)*

Yeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwww!!

Codey's a droolin'! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Radagast (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Picture (CAD)*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/goodjob.gif


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## xpitxbullx (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Picture (CAD)*

Where's the signup list?

Jeff


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## MR Bulk (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Picture (CAD)*

Okay, all done:


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## MR Bulk (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

PitBull,

The sign-up list is HERE and HERE. 

Thanks.


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## Codeman (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

I LIKE the logo. A big paw just seems right! Too bad the Islands aren't in the same configuration. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## MR Bulk (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Thanks Code-y, I was trying to get across the idea of a young lion's paw, a grown one I would've included the pointed claw tips... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


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## acusifu (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

LOOKIN GOOD !


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## Codeman (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
Thanks Code-y, I was trying to get across the idea of a young lion's paw, a grown one I would've included the pointed claw tips... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm...leaving something for later are we? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleye11.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

Bad Code-y... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif ...Bad Code-y...

I'm going to the timeout corner now...


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## andrewwynn (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

looks very nice.. with the IMS20 in there whoa, beautiful beam.. nice size.. i am sooo tempted.


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## JimH (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

[ QUOTE ]
*Codeman said:*
I LIKE the logo. A big paw just seems right! Too bad the Islands aren't in the same configuration. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe we could invite Superman in and have him just mush those islands around into the correct locations to match the new logo.


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## prescottrecorder (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Is the logo for the even smaller successor to the Lioncub a glint in papa Lion's eye?


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## MY (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

The cub's dimensions seem to be exactly the same as the ARC4 with the flat cy tail mod. I measured my cy tail mod ARC4 to be exactly 2 15/16" - basically a hair under 3". In addition both heads are 1" in diameter and the ARC is 1.75" long. From the cad drawing, the head section is 60% of the total length which would make the cub's head about 1.8" long. Both lights battery tubes are flared at the top and have knurling and the same length and probably the same diameter. The only physical difference that I can tell from the two lights is that the cub has a flaired bottom, a.k.a., KI. Overall, a nice time tested design. For a small light, careful placement of the switch will be crucial.

Regards.


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## andrewwynn (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

ok.. my contribution to the cause.. since i like to 'see' things in 3D:



















Hope you don't mind, Charlie.. email me post-haste if you wanted to keep it more ambiguous with the line art. 

-awr


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## andrewwynn (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

too funny.. all those posts between my two happened WHILE i was modeling the 3D version..


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## Codeman (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Oh, yeah, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif for relocating the battery tube o-ring to use a bore seal! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif


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## andrewwynn (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

using the cad drawing and 2.98 as the length.. 1 3/4 long x 15/16 for the 'bezel' section... pretty good eyeball MY.. i like the waist design.. not going to drop that light easily. I will be very interested to see this light in action.

-awr


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## NewBie (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

[ QUOTE ]
*andrewwynn said:*
ok.. my contribution to the cause.. since i like to 'see' things in 3D:


















Hope you don't mind, Charlie.. email me post-haste if you wanted to keep it more ambiguous with the line art. 

-awr 

[/ QUOTE ]


Okay, andrewwynn, I'll one up you:





Source Image: HDS Ultimate 60- Altered for effect


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## loalight (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

NewBie, if you have a point, say so. Personally, I think you're trolling.


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## Trev1960 (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Overall length of 2.98"=75.69mm, for those of us who use the metric system /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## NewBie (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

[ QUOTE ]
*loalight said:*
NewBie, if you have a point, say so. Personally, I think you're trolling. 

[/ QUOTE ]


Nope, it was a very close picture that was really simple to make a slight modification to, quickly.

Try starting with a picture of a MagLite, then try to make it look like a LC, and you'll see what I mean- trust me.


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## MR Bulk (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

My, my, have you guys been busy! I was kinda hoping to have a 3D drawing to show eventually and Lo and Behold, Andy does the honors (hey Newb, please straighten out that battery tube)! Thanks.

Of course there will be one or more final cosmetic tweaks to better differentiate the Cub from other lights (that I was unable to represent in the 2D CAD diagram), but you have to admit that when you get down to really small cylindrical objects that make light from one end, the choice of available designs starts to get rather limited...which is probably why auto makers stamp grooves and creases in the sheetmetal, offer a myriad of paint finishes, and add all manner of fins, vents, grilles and badges. Most all cars have four wheels and look quite rectangular when viewed from the top. Looking down from a tall condo you'd be hard pressed to tell them apart except for color, and at my work when we have a vehicle pursuit our 'copter pilots become very inventive indeed when describing vehicles over the air.

Wow, look at the time - back ta woik!


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## andrewwynn (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

I didn't get the sense of of 'trolling' from Newbie.. although it was a bit silly to quote my whole post with all the photos.. I saw just what it was.. he saw an opportunity to manufacture a photo from a different light.. although the LC is going to have no knurling except the waist the size n shape looks pretty close to me (other than like MB pointed out.. probably will have both the head and body on the same axis. 

Somebody started a thread about a year ago about how 'all lights look the same basically' because if you shrink-wrap some metal around a 123 etc. battery.. you end up with a bigger cylinder. Of course i said i will 'beg to differ' since my light will not be a cylinder.. 

[tangent]
M.B. is trying to open a can-o-worms on me.. haven't gone by 'Andy' in over a decade.. online just 'awr' or 'andrewwynn' if you feel formal please.. IRL i go by Andrew. If somebody calls me 'Andy' and i don't recognize their voice from more than a decade ago (i.e. family).. i don't even recognize they are trying to get my attention no different if they say 'Bob'... it's wild how that was de-programmed from my brain.. but also wild how my brain remembers 'family' saying it.. i.e. if a family member says 'andy' i still recognize they are trying to get my attention, but if i'm in a crowd someplace and somebody yells 'Andy'.. doesn't make me think they are calling for me in the least.
[/tangent]

<tangent>never know if i'm supposed to use UBB or HTML tags for tangents
<tangent>some of you will really find that funny.. some will be like hug</tangent>
</tangent>

I made a 3D model of the upcoming 'groovy' so i could figure out an infinitely variable driver.. which.. whoa the lionCub would be a perfect canditate.. button on the side for on/off.. and a simple twist to determine full range of brightness.. 100% to 0% (the fine-tuning on the low-end is amazing)...dying to get the next prototype operational. It took only like 5 minutes to model the 3D model from the 2D jpg.. it is of course not 'perfect' since i was only tracing the 2D model, but it's within a mm on any dimension.. just the bevels and such are eye-balled. 

-awr


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## gregw (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
Although not shown here, there will be a cutout milled into one edge of the circumferential curvature of the bottom flare to create a lanyard passage. It is designed to still allow full, flat tailstanding ability.



[/ QUOTE ]

Yay for the Lanyard Passage!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


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## diggdug13 (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Doug like Doug like alot.


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## MR Bulk (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Yeah Doug, other people like themselves a lot, too - izzat what you meant? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif


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## bmstrong (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Good deal. I like the Logo and the Shape. I heart the Waterproofness. 

Will we be able to swap the Lux out, like the Lionheart, for the super newness 8 months down the road, after the Cub comes out?

Brian


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## MR Bulk (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Brian, yes definitely, as the Lion series of lights would never paint buyers into an unremovable Luxeon corner, from which the only escape is to buy a whole new LED/circuit assembly...Never! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## fleegs (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

I tried to get this from the posts but I am still unclear.

Mr Bulk or anyone, will the switch be on the side or on the bottom of the light? I know I missed it but I sure can't find it either.

Thanks,
fleegs


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## Radagast (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

The switch is on the side, but the actual location has not been revealed, yet.

I hope the printing is minimal on the body. The best logo ever is the VIP's. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


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## Robban (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

If only I had the money to spend... Looking good so far, very good



But that's kind of a given when it comes to this mans work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## MR Bulk (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Side switch, right near the top of the Control Module where it joins the bezel.


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## Rudi (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Like Radagast said:

"I hope the printing is minimal on the body. The best logo ever is the VIP's"


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## MR Bulk (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

I'm sorry Rad and Rudi, but it was concluded awhile ago that the LionCub should have a logo as shown earlier in this thread. Of course it won't be very big, and there will also be the Made In Hawaii and serial number etchings. Not to worry, all merkings will be executed as tastefully as reasonably possible.


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## Rudi (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

So far Charlie, whenever my preferences differed from yours, yours turned out to be right.


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## Radagast (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

[ QUOTE ]
*Rudi said:*
So far Charlie, whenever my preferences differed from yours, yours turned out to be right. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif


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## flashlight (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Hey Mr B, how about 'Made in Hawaii, USA' if space allows jus' in case some folks don't know where Hawaii is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleye11.gif, just like lots of people don't know where Singapore is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## MR Bulk (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

Thanks for the suggestions but I am not sure adding USA wouldn't cause the lettering to run too far around the head and possibly interfere with the logo. But we'll see, thanks again.


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## Frenchyled (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

And if there is a place, you can maybe put a picture of yourself /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif Sorry I am not serious /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


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## raggie33 (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

see what i miss when im away .looks very cool.


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## Weylan (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - software?*

Mr. Bulk,
I am going to ask if a place for a Tritum(?) capsule is going to be machined into the light anywhere? I know you are hard at work on these items and the LionCub and have been inudated with requests and suggestions, but might it be possible to get this consideration added? I don't think you would need to actually add the Tritum(?), but I would like it added, but we could add the Tritum(?) capsule if we wanted to later? I was just curious...

Also, in the copious amount of messages, I don't remember seeing any rough specs on the control info the LionCub is supposed to have, other then light up my whole neighborhood. So if Mr. Bulk or anyone else could post just a little more info, this would be great. I have lusted after one of the original LionHearts, but the jumping in on the lionCub is nice place to be. But knowing a bit more would be great to wet my appitite for what is to come...


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## MR Bulk (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - software?*

Although most details are worked out (I hope to have a pic of some *actual* CNC'd LionCub body parts later tonight), there are a couple that are not. The tritium groove was discussed with the machine shop, but they need more exacting dimensions and being that there are at least three different tritium vials currently available (and God knows how many others not yet "discovered" by the rabid CPF crowd) that a grrove would be ambiguous at best, either too large/long or too small/short, etc.


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## Turt (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - software?*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## MR Bulk (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - software?*

The first couple of pieces to the LionCub body rolled off the CNC lathes today:












The battery tube's theme was designed to be reminiscent of prior MR Bulk™ custom-bodied lights such as the VIP and LionHeart, by adding a ridged area where the light would normally be gripped, with knurling of the tops of these ridges to create separate grip bands.

The yet-to-be-made final body piece, the bezel, will carry the ridged theme as well, except they will remain smooth to create contrast while at the same time adding interest to the overall look. _"This ain't no twist-on light, sonny"._

Sheesh, I feel like an automobile exterior designer now...


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## bindibadgi (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - software?*

Now I really do wish I'd bought that waterproof keyboard.

That looks exquisite!


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## Turt (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - software?*

It looks... cute... like a cub /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Bogus1 (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - software?*

I know there is some info about the cub too early to release, however have the actual charger and battery manufacturer and specs been chosen? Would make life a little easier to plan for those of us currently in the market for these.

Thanks


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## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - software?*

At this stage it looks like it will run on most R123s. Individual variances between brands may affect performance insofar as run time vs. maximum brightness are concerned, and the ones available at TW will go a little longer at the expense of ultimate brightness, but in the real world, to the naked eye, the slight difference in output is not easily discerned without a light meter, while how long the battery lasts certainly is.


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## Sway (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - software?*

Dang Charlie that looks nice and just when I had got over the small and bright fever...Will it take a lanyard attachment /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Later
Kelly


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## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - software?*

Hi Kelly,

Of course! I apologize but it was buried halfway down in the first post, _"...there will be a cutout milled into one edge of the circumferential curvature of the bottom flare to create a lanyard passage. It is designed to still allow full, flat tailstanding ability."
_

Nufsed!


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## robstarr-lite (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - software/hardware?*

Charlie Question: is it too early to ask if the lion cub will have reverse battery protection, [mechanical/electrical]?

Last evening, unfortunately in a semi darkened room as I rushed to get my boys out to the park I plopped a battery in my LH, thought it was correct as the ends are similar looking, I immediately clicked for light but got no light....as i was disassembling it my speed hastened as I started to smell something ugly.... something definite got hot. quite distressing to have experienced this ...Charlie you can follow up in a PM to me on what to check for ( or link if its been discussed. ) but my question is a concern cause if its using pilas, [ the 123s have a nipple but in my case it was an honest mistake ]- sorta hard to see those ends. heck for me on a slow day i must replace 3 sets of batts ( all types) so its not that i don't get enough exercise. The flip side on non-pila concern would be what if your changing batteries in complete darkness, drop one, or the wife/gf/nonflashaholic buddy,etc somehow was performing the change. nuff said-- ( as to my RB,if this was posted, well its my fault in any case; now I placed a glob of red nailpolish around the top positive end on my pilas.

Note: ( was asked to place this question here, from the thread list post, sorry didn't know )- also did a search on CPF for this scenario but came up empty….


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## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)

I'm sorry Rob, but given the extremely popular reception of the LionHeart, aside from the new programming the LC boards were a direct transfer of the same LH technology. Even George could not give a fully committed answer as to the extent of risk if the battery were inserted backwards - or if in fact there would even Be any harm.

However, unlike some boards I believe there is no "instant destruction" if you reverse-polarity it for a second or two (did it myself once). Now turning it on and waiting for a few moments, standing in the dark and puzzling over why it isn't lighting up, just Might become cause for concern...does your LH still work properly? You can PM or e-mail me if you prefer.


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## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)

BTW, unlike the Pilas, all the R123s I have personally handled Do Indeed have that little anode nubbin, just like their disposable CR123 cousins...


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## Datasaurusrex (Mar 8, 2005)

Any chance we could get a picture of the LionCub body next to some other lights as a size reference? 

Maybe next to a LionHeart, an ARC LS, and an E1e? or maybe a FireFly? or a ?


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## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)

That's coming eventually - soon as I have the bodies in hand. As described, these two pieces literally came off the CNC machines today, meaning they are still at the shop awaiting the birth of their brothers and sisters.

But for a mind's eye approximation, the two pieces assembled as shown are approximately 2.125 (two and one-eighth) inches long - or around 2/3rds the length of an Arc4+, or about the length of an Ichishiki, or about an inch _shorter_ than an Arc AA, or about...hopefully that gives you a rough idea.

Good night, it's about 11:30 p.m. here...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


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## Datasaurusrex (Mar 8, 2005)

Cool, thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wow, that's about 1/4" shorter than a Arc LS with a twisty on it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Trying envision this, it's seems to be roughly the same lenght as a Pila-150A


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## flashlight (Mar 8, 2005)

So is a shrunken down CR2 body in the worx as well? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


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## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)

Datasaurus - whoops, now before anyone is misled, the comparison figures given are for the length of only the first two of three body components! The bezel will add nearly an inch when the light is fully screwed together.

flashlight - naw, actually I been thinkin'a stackin' three or four coin cells together! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

But seriously, it is now about half-past midnight! Okay, one more try...g'night all...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## Mac (Mar 8, 2005)

Looking good Mr B /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## Codeman (Mar 8, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


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## nethiker (Mar 8, 2005)

Let's see.

A flashaholic appealing commodity...mystery thing...accessory...nostril cleaner.

Mr. B, could this be it? Did you take J.S. Burly's challange to mod the world's smallest flashlight? It would be small enough to fit in a flashaholics nostril and driven hot enough to burn the hairs.

I just want to know if it hurts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Greg


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## cue003 (Mar 8, 2005)

Charlie, can you tell us whose R123 TW are going to be selling with the LionCub?

Thanks

Curtis


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## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)

Mac and Codey, thanks.

nethiker, no.

cue003, no - you'd have to ask TW themselves.


----------



## nethiker (Mar 8, 2005)

oooh, Mr. B, you are good.

We can leave that "no" ambiguous if you like. I like the guessing game. It is an exciting diversion til the Cub ships. 

So who thinks that the surprise offering is "no" not a nosehair burning tiny light, or "no" it is, but doesn't hurt?

Greg


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)




----------



## SolarFlare (Mar 8, 2005)

I won't get a special secret "thingy" cause by the time my light gets here via Keith they'll be all gone /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif , unless of course that nice Mr. Bulk reserves some secret thingies for international buyers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif (its not a funky Dano shirt is it) Book him !!!


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)

I will ship the Secret Thingies (ST for short, okay?) the same time Dan ships the LCs. They should arrive about the same time, I think...


----------



## SolarFlare (Mar 8, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif


----------



## SolarFlare (Mar 8, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleye11.gif nobody saw it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)

Oh well, it was worth a try, eh, Solar...?


----------



## SolarFlare (Mar 8, 2005)

I said "Nuhhhhthink" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif


----------



## Turt (Mar 8, 2005)

aww man... what did I miss????


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 8, 2005)

Oh, nuthin' (I gave it away already)... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## Turt (Mar 8, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif


----------



## Dandrop (Mar 8, 2005)

Charlie,
I do not know if this has been asked or answered before, is the charger rated 110-240 volts and useable to US,Asia and Europe? Thanks.


----------



## Monolith (Mar 8, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
Oh, nuthin' (I gave it away already)... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]


I think it vibrated right on by... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


----------



## jeffb (Mar 8, 2005)

Perhaps there is a "short" attention span, when it comes to exciting new lights like the "Lion Cub" and the "FT's" that accompany it...............I'm glad I'm "in" for two.........perhaps that will translate to, two or (2)"Ft's"??

Thanks Mr Bulk!!!

jeffb


----------



## cynix (Mar 9, 2005)

Looks like I missed some very important info... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 9, 2005)

UPDATE 3-8-05:

The 200 PWM boards for the LionCub, all programmed with the latest V.2 firmware, have just made their grand entrance to Hawaii...







What lies ahead now are countless sleepless nights spent soldering tiny, fine-gauge wires to each of them...

Turt/Monolith/cynix - not to worry, you didn't miss (it by) much...

Dandrop, I think your question is indeed a most salient one that is best answered by Dan at TW. I'll PM him (or perhaps you could?).

jeffb, I know not what these "Ft's" are that you write of, but each LionCub buyer will be given the opportunity to purchase the _quantity_ of "*S*T's" matching their _quantity_ of confirmed LionCubs - to do with as they please - either keep, or sell, or perhaps even test the e-bay waters - where I can *guarantee* that the first ones at least, will go for their full original cost and likely more, since I am having them specially built and there will be no further new examples available after these are gone... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## cynix (Mar 9, 2005)

Do the STs have serial numbers? Will they match our LCs'? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## diggdug13 (Mar 9, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
UPDATE 3-8-05:

each LionCub buyer will be given the opportunity to purchase the quantity of "*S*T's" matching their number of confirmed LionCubs - to do with as they please - 

[/ QUOTE ]


----------



## cynix (Mar 9, 2005)

diggdug13, I think MR Bulk meant "the number of LCs we buy" not "our LCs' *serial* numbers"...


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 9, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*cynix said:*
Do the STs have serial numbers? Will they match our LCs'? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

HEY - now THERE'S an idea!!! (yeah, right...) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

There will be No matching whatsoever - there will not even be any THINKING about matching...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad71.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad71.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad71.gif
...or else the dreaded "C-O" term will have to once more rear its ugly head...


----------



## Datasaurusrex (Mar 9, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
UPDATE 3-8-05: each LionCub buyer will be given the opportunity to purchase the _quantity_ of "*S*T's" matching their _quantity_ of confirmed LionCubs - to do with as they please - either keep, or sell

[/ QUOTE ]

To keep, of course... DUH! 

In another thread you said you weren't making 200 of the ST's yet this comment implies that you are making enough to match every LionCub. So if I buy a second LionCub am I for sure going to get a shot at buying 2 ST's?


----------



## cynix (Mar 9, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Datasaurusrex said:*
In another thread you said you weren't making 200 of the ST's yet this comment implies that you are making enough to match every LionCub. So if I buy a second LionCub am I for sure going to get a shot at buying 2 ST's? 

[/ QUOTE ]I think it's still first come first served...


----------



## MY (Mar 9, 2005)

ST = LionEye = CR2. What could possibly be more desirable than a new lion cub other than a smaller lion, the iLion or LionEye?

Come on Mr. Bulky, prove me wrong.

Regards.


----------



## flashlight (Mar 9, 2005)

Could be just a lanyard or pouch.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif But whatver it is, it ought to be good & I'll want one! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## cue003 (Mar 9, 2005)

I have not idea what the ST are... but I want one.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Curtis


----------



## dyschan (Mar 9, 2005)

Could also be a CR2 housing, so that you can have your lion baby. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Codeman (Mar 9, 2005)

MR Bulk - you are now not only a Light Builder Extraordinaire, but a walking, talking puzzle! I /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif in awe!

Translation for everyone else - the suspense is going to drive me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Christo_pull_hair.gif !


----------



## bwaites (Mar 9, 2005)

Codeman,

I thought that was my job?

Bill


----------



## SolarFlare (Mar 9, 2005)

I haven't got a clue what the ST's are /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif no more pm's asking me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleye11.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## Weylan (Mar 9, 2005)

*LIONCUB and candle mode?*

I was reading somewhere here. Gads and now I can't find it... Someone had a great mod for using a LionHeart or VIP and making a candle table light out of it. It had like a light shade and everything.

Can any one point me to the right thread?

Can anyone help me speculate on how well we might be able to get the same mode for the LionCub? This candle mode would be great for travel and reading in the dark in an urban environment where I just don't need to send all that light to the ceiling... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Christo_pull_hair.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/au.gif


----------



## diggdug13 (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

the accessory is being made by Otokoyama. do a search for his name, with in the last 2 months. He doesn't post much.

doug


----------



## Monolith (Mar 9, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*cynix said:*
Do the STs have serial numbers? Will they match our LCs'? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think etching serial numbers would interfere with the ST's alternative uses...

.


----------



## jeffb (Mar 9, 2005)

jeffb, I know not what these "Ft's" are that you write of, but each LionCub buyer will be given the opportunity to purchase the _quantity_ of "*S*T's" matching their _quantity_ of confirmed LionCubs - to do with as they please - either keep, or sell, or perhaps even test the e-bay waters - where I can *guarantee* that the first ones at least, will go for their full original cost and likely more, since I am having them specially built and there will be no further new examples available after these are gone... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

"Ft".................."St"...............my fingers don't always type what my mind thinks!

Thanks for more info!

jeffb


----------



## BC0311 (Mar 9, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
UPDATE 3-8-05:

The 200 PWM boards for the LionCub, all programmed with the latest V.2 firmware, have just made their grand entrance to Hawaii...

What lies ahead now are countless sleepless nights spent soldering tiny, fine-gauge wires to each of them... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh man... I remember all of those _baby jellyfish_ from the last couple of Mr.Bulk lights. 







Will the switch will be on the side of the forward segment in the above photo? I sure do like the side switches.

I like the nekkid aluminum finish and the smooth ribs, but, I don't mind the knurling. It's great for scratching and filing off calluses. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I like the provision for a lanyard, too.

This is coming along very nicely /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 9, 2005)

Britt! You're alive!

The switch will be as on the LH.

And creation of 200 baby jellyfish shall commence quite soon...

Yore trip going okay? BTW, THANKS for the Ti Zippo! Watching my mailbox daily...


----------



## BC0311 (Mar 9, 2005)

Hey Charlie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif, I'm glad that Ti Zippo is on its way to you. They blasted it with aluminum oxide and it has a "cat's tongue" texture to the finish. Also, it will immediately pick up oils, etc. from your hands and will begin changing with your unique bio-imprint. The safety sticker is on the plastic bag rather than the lighter because the adhesive would affect the finish permanently.

I got back this afternoon and am really dry for the first time since I left. I'm in mildew combat mode. I have gear under 2 heatlamps, on a shelf in the dryer and hanging everywhere. 

I still have V.1 in both of my LHs, I just can't seem to remember to ship them off for conversion. I'm happy the LionCub is coming with V.2 because it is spoken so well of by people that know what they're talking about. 

The LionCub makes good sense as a backup light to my LH on trips. Especially when I get my LHs running V.2 as well.

Britt


----------



## brightnorm (Mar 10, 2005)

Please put me on the LionCub reserve list, any number except 13. 

Thanks,
Brightnorm


----------



## fore (Mar 10, 2005)

Hey brightnorm, gregw is compiling the list. Here's the thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=886810&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=11&vc=1


----------



## brightnorm (Mar 10, 2005)

Thanks!

BN


----------



## flashlight (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

[ QUOTE ]
*diggdug13 said:*
the accessory is being made by Otokoyama. do a search for his name, with in the last 2 months. He doesn't post much.

doug 

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, I think I see the light or is this the light at the end of the tunnel? (puns intended) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/au.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## diggdug13 (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif alright tag I'm it....lol

doug


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

UPDATE 3-10-05:

Got some new pictures for you, both actual photographs of some LionCub parts now knurled, as well as CAD renderings of the upcoming LionHead accessory.

In this picture you can see the five grip bands created on the LionCub body now that knurling has been applied:






Note the teeny lil' diamond points all a-starin' back up atcha...

Here is one that just got done, still chucked up on the CNC lathe and ready to be parted:







A pic just to show there are indeed more brothers and sisters where these came from, all due to be born shortly:







But wait - what's this? Why sit around waiting while one project is going on, when we could be working on a follow up? So here are a couple of 3D renderings on the upcoming LionHead, which will transform the Cub into a light for ALL reasons:











I personally like the chunky, no-nonsense look, like a little Lion King on - steroids... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

This beamshot of a proto LionHead on a Cub test mule graphically illustrates the throw from an Lh-equipped Cub. It will literally transform the Cub into something that replaces just about every other light I have:






It quite cleanly outthrows the Space Needle II...

Hmmm...Big Sale on my Old Lights right after the Cubs ship...? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## bindibadgi (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Mr Bulk you are causing mass dehydration all over the world with your dribble-inducing pictures!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Uttered while wringing hands and twitching eyebrows maniacally, *"MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA...!"*


----------



## mst3k (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Awesome Charlie. So who is doing the Lion Head?


----------



## wallyrulz (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Well in that case, I'll take your x-binned space needle II! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## BC0311 (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

<font color="red"> *ZOWEE!!!* </font> /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif Incredible! Mr. Bulk has done it again! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif 

Oh, I'm so in on this I can't stand it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

Britt


----------



## bmstrong (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Moo Hoo Ha Ha.


----------



## SolarFlare (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Ahhhhh so ST doesn't stand for "secret thingy" it stands for "space thimbles" we'll need them to protect our little fingers from that lionheads needle like teeth


----------



## gregw (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Way to go Charlie!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif 

The LionHead is definitely a MUST HAVE!

How about a head to head (pun intended /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) beamshot between the proto LionHead/Cub and a Space Needle II? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## raggie33 (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

it gets better daily /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

[ QUOTE ]
*mst3k said:*
Awesome Charlie. So who is doing the Lion Head? 

[/ QUOTE ]


An as yet unnamed machinist who is very diligent and humble and has not asked to be identified just yet.

wally, I no longer have it, was sold soon after it was built (via CPF Auction) but I will always have memories, permanently encased in the 2004 CPF Calendar...

Britt, GOT the Ti lighter today but - it's so nice I can't bring myself to use it!!! Light as a feather, too.

bmstrong, that's wrong, it should be "moo goo gai pan"...

SolarFlare, teeth? What needle-like teeth...? It's a Cub, it don't even have a mane yet! Unless of course, you count the LionHead (Does kinda look like a Mane, don't it? Mebbe I'll change the name...)

gregw, that should be coming soon...

Howzit Ragzz!


----------



## Codeman (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Reminds me of a joke. Is that a LionCub/LionHead in your pocket or are you glad to se.... WOW that's BRIGHT! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Rudi (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Charlie or George, is it premature to ask about the LC's expected runtime compared to the LH? Would it be roughly in proportion to the volume of their respective batteries?


----------



## Trev1960 (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Does ST (secret things)= the accessory head?


----------



## dyschan (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

[ QUOTE ]
*SolarFlare said:*
Ahhhhh so ST doesn't stand for "secret thingy" it stands for "space thimbles" we'll need them to protect our little fingers from that lionheads needle like teeth 

[/ QUOTE ]

that will b hard to beat


----------



## cynix (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

[ QUOTE ]
*Trev1960 said:*
Does ST (secret things)= the accessory head? 

[/ QUOTE ]MR Bulk said no...


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Code-y, it would make for an even Better joke if the battery tube end stuck straight out under the pocket...!

Rudi, George is testing, testing, testing right now, different batteries, different Luxeons, etc. - yes, we are indeed testing DIFFERENT LUXEON BIN CODES because I have more than one and I'm trying to decide...

Trev1960, what cynix said. The ST is a stand alone object, meaning you need not have an LC to enjoy it. And anyone can use it, although Flashoholics will love it far more than the average Joe Citizen off the street...although Joe could, and likely would, use it too... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## Christoph (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


----------



## nethiker (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Alright Mr. B, time for another clue.

Is it bigger than a breadbox?

Greg


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

[ QUOTE ]
Is it bigger than a breadbox?

[/ QUOTE ]

Could be. If you count what I will be shipping them in... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Seriously though, even if you hit the nail on the head I still can't confirm what it is because people may jump on the LionCub just to get the ST thingy, that's how compelling it might be to some. But I would rather you buy the LionCub because you want the *LionCub*, see? I mean, what if all of the first respondees buy out the ST's? Then those who bought the LionCub to get an ST will not _Have_ an ST, and will be bummed big-time!


----------



## Codeman (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
Code-y, it would make for an even Better joke if the battery tube end stuck straight out under the pocket...!

[/ QUOTE ]

With that short little battery tube, it never occurred to me. I've ALREADY got something stickin' out there!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif


----------



## gessner17 (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

I think I know what it is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Hey gessner, take it easy - or I'll hafta Cu... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif


----------



## gessner17 (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

I wont let the cat out of the bag, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Monolith (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

ST*ST*ST*ST*ST*ST*ST?


----------



## bmstrong (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

>>I mean, what if all of the first respondees buy out the ST's? 

Hmmm. I thought you joking, Bulkmaster. 

Okay. Right then: Have we said how many of the ST thing we are making?

Edit. Just seen this, Bulkmaster:

>>bmstrong, that's wrong, it should be "moo goo gai pan"...

Yummy! Maybe? Moo Goo Lion Cub Pan. Tastes good, crunchy and lights up?

Brian


----------



## XFlash (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
[ QUOTE ]
Is it bigger than a breadbox?

[/ QUOTE ]

Could be. If you count what I will be shipping them in... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Seriously though, even if you hit the nail on the head I still can't confirm what it is because people may jump on the LionCub just to get the ST thingy, that's how compelling it might be to some. But I would rather you buy the LionCub because you want the *LionCub*, see? I mean, what if all of the first respondees buy out the ST's? Then those who bought the LionCub to get an ST will not _Have_ an ST, and will be bummed big-time! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Great job Mr Bulk, where else can buying a flashlight be an adventure. By the way what is a first responder, is it in the order the Lion Cubs were paid for?
Thanks Again


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 11, 2005)

Well...I cannot give you a Definite number ('cause I and the HAT guys and the development team members will all be buying at Least one ST each, maybe more if we think that e-bay prices could get up there), but suffice to say that when offering a quantity of anything, there will always be that 20%-50% who do not want it. Look at the pocket clips for the VIP and LH, we guesstimated low and we Still have some left!

Not saying the ST is a pocket clip of course (how would you use That as a stand alone tool?), just throwing it up here to illustrate an example.

In other words, I estimate that a clear Majority of the CPF SE LionCub buyers will buy an ST (except for that 20%-50% mentioned), and thus the quantity of ST's shall correspond accordingly. In the end, I predict nearly everyone will be happy (except those who did not buy a LionCub to begin with...). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

My final comment on this - if you decide to Sell your hard-won-by-buying-a-LionCub-first ST, you will likely regain all your ST costs back and then some, effectively REDUCING the price of the LC...


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 11, 2005)

Good point XFlash - it will be a free-for-all, on a first come, first served basis.

Unless I want to get way too busy by figuring out who paid for their LionCubs first...but then the (very valid, BTW) point that some will claim is that it was too Early to pay, that the light was announced prematurely so they HAD to wait to see what it was all about, plus that rule on the ordering thread which said you didn't have to pay unless somebody ELSE wanted your serial number and then you had 24 hours to pay, so pay they did, and so why are they being penalized now, etc., etc., etc.!!!

Again, suffice to say that most all buyers will indeed have their chance to also buy an ST - and let's just hope my prediction plays out - or there'll be one Helluva a firestorm of activity on e-bay and CPF's own B/S/T a little later!


----------



## JJohn (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

[ QUOTE ]
George is testing, testing, testing right now, different batteries, different Luxeons, etc...

[/ QUOTE ]



Will primary CR123 cells be part of these tests? I would be very interested in seeing runtime estimates for the LionCub running at medium (or low) output levels using non-rechargeables.

Thanks,
John


----------



## sputnick (Mar 11, 2005)

>>>Relocated...


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

Naw JJohn, I'm sorry but a primary battery will only result in output comparable to that of the LionHeart on a CR123 (around 600+ lux) although all the features would still remain functional (dimming, dual interfaces, etc.).

This is because I managed to get hold of some rather extreme-binned (such as quite low-Vf Codes) Luxeon IIIs but the low Vf may cause the Luxeon to not remain as healthy as we would want when runnng on a lithium-ion rechargeable. Since the primary power source of these aptly named Lion-series lights should indeed be - uh - _Li-ion_ batteries, with their inherent advantages such as relatively flat discharge, zero battery cost after initial purchase, EPA friendly, etc., it was decided to configure the light to run optimally on li-ions first and on primary CR123s as emergency back-up if necessary.


----------



## cynix (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

MR Bulk, would using a CR123 be harmful to the LC or LH?


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 11, 2005)

*Re: LIONCUB and candle mode?*

No.


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 11, 2005)

Just resetting the proper title for this thread. Next guy changes it gets CUT-OFF!!! (including me)


----------



## Trev1960 (Mar 11, 2005)

Good decsion with to optimise for re chargeables /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## JohnT737 (Mar 11, 2005)

Can someone point me in the right direction to update my LH to ver 2.
John


----------



## nrk (Mar 11, 2005)

Original thread is here 

and part 2 of the thread is here

Good luck. ;-norm


----------



## JohnT737 (Mar 11, 2005)

Thanks Norm.
Now if I can just give up my LH for that long.
John


----------



## idleprocess (Mar 12, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
Look at the pocket clips for the VIP and LH, we guesstimated low and we Still have some left!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I hear ya.

_(Hint: VIP pocket clips are still available)_


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 12, 2005)

Haw!


----------



## M_R (Mar 12, 2005)

Charlie,

Glad to see everything is moving along well. I guess the LC purchase will quickly mean two additional purchases will need to be made, the ST and the BH or LH which I guess is being built along the same model as the clips and the st at 60-80% of the total run. Just a quick, suggestion on the assembly of the LC. If the same thread pitch and Al stock is to be used, could I recommend that the threads be lubed with conductive lubricant as I find that the LH tail removal with the new spring when loaded with battery really grinds the threads if appropriate force is not applied. Just a friendly suggestion, keep up the great work!

Cheers,

Matthew


----------



## BugOutGear_USA (Mar 12, 2005)

Sorry if I missed this, but will the LC be able to run on any of the pila li-ions?

Thanks,
Flavio


----------



## gregw (Mar 12, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*BugOutGear_USA said:*
Sorry if I missed this, but will the LC be able to run on any of the pila li-ions?

Thanks,
Flavio 

[/ QUOTE ]

The LionCub is made for R123 Li-ion cells. Pila still doesn't have one that is 123 sized, so the LC won't be able to use a Pila.


----------



## BugOutGear_USA (Mar 12, 2005)

Yes, I know...I wasn't clear if the LC took 1 or 2 R123's...

Thanks thought.


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 12, 2005)

M_R, we shall be up to our elbows with lube (some may also find their way onto the threads, too).

BugOut and gregw are BOTH correct - the LC *will accept* the LH's battery tubes, in both 150 and 168 lengths.

(gee, has a can'o worms been opened up here or What???)


----------



## MY (Mar 12, 2005)

Mr. Bulky, I am confused. Taking what you just said, the lionheart and lioncub must share the same control module. The difference is that the LH's top is flaired to accept the larger bezel while the LC's bezel is the same diameter as the module. The bottom end of the control module on both LC and LH's must be the same to accept the LH's tubes. The Cub' 123 tube should also fit on the LH. So now the cub is modular - cool.

Now about that ST doohicky . . . . gives us another clue.

Regards.


----------



## gregw (Mar 12, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
BugOut and gregw are BOTH correct - the LC *will accept* the LH's battery tubes, in both 150 and 168 lengths.

(gee, has a can'o worms been opened up here or What???) 

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow.. I didn't know that!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I can just imagine the LionCub head with the LionHead using the LionHeart 168 tube with a 2400mah 18650 battery in it.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Ultimate Mini-Throw King!!!


----------



## BC0311 (Mar 12, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*

BugOut and gregw are BOTH correct - the LC *will accept* the LH's battery tubes, in both 150 and 168 lengths.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey! Now that is great! I've got Pilas out my ears! That LionHead is awwsuhm, I won't have to lug around my DD3DIII anymore.


----------



## cue003 (Mar 12, 2005)

"...the LC will accept the LH's battery tubes, in both 150 and 168 lengths."

Great news indeed. Way to allow for reuse of your existing investment in the LH. Thanks for that. Looking forward to getting the LC. Damn, now I am wondering if I should pick up another LC.....hmmm.

Curtis


----------



## raggie33 (Mar 13, 2005)

very cool indeed.looks like anoither home run!!!!!


----------



## M_R (Mar 13, 2005)

Charlie, 

This might be too late in the machining process, but for true modularity, consider, if necessary, to design the besel thread on the LC to accept not only the regular LC head and the LionHead (Lh?) but also the VIP Bulk Head, achieving true Mr. Bulk modularity /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif and 3 

edit: 5 (head possibilities, I forgot about the Big Bulkhead that's still pending and the original VIP head using 17mm reflectors or all of the different varieties of optics!)
Black is looking better than ever!


head possibilities. Hey not to mention the immediate sell out of black LionCub's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif 

Cheers,

Matthew


----------



## diggdug13 (Mar 13, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif
all I can do is drool until it gets here.

doug


----------



## Mike75 (Mar 13, 2005)

Hi. Folks!
I'm sure that this question has been addressed already, but there are so many pages to read and the number is groing faster and faster...
So, the question is: will this light be able to use R123? If so, what about overdischarge protection to the unprotected R123?
Thanks!
Michael.


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 13, 2005)

We intend fer "Modular" ta be are middle name...!

As for Mike75's question, Yes, you can use R123's (in fact that is what the light was designed for to begin with), and the LC's circuitry will have the same ~2.7V over-discharge "cut-off" (there's that term again) to protect the (bare) cell that cannot protect itself...just make sure the charger you use will protect from over-CHARGING any bare cell in the first place.

And yes, I never thought of it, but with all the black LH's out there (125 units to be exact) one can now optimize one's investment via interchangeability with the Cub. There's many a night when I thought about how cool (and "balanced") the look of the little LC would be when expanded with the 168A LongTube and the LionHead. And then contracted back to its near-keychain size with the stock head and tube, as well as swapping the short little R123 tube into the LionHeart if you wanted a smaller light yet with the mid-sized 27mm head (and its quite useful mid-range throw) in a short body...the possible combinations are quite interesting.


----------



## Christoph (Mar 13, 2005)

This is too cool Charlie I am impressed with how this is playing out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wow.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## nrk (Mar 13, 2005)

Charlie,

I'm waiting for the LionCave Utility Case to hold my LH and LC modular heads and bodies so that I can open the case and assemble a flashlight for each outing.

Bring it on. ;-norm


----------



## Amorphous (Mar 13, 2005)

Lion's Den?


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 13, 2005)

"LionDen"...hmmm...perhaps one of the slightly larger Pelican cases w/pick'n pluck custom configurable foam? Kevin (BatteryStation)?

Oops, must make mental note to include room for the ST in there... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## MY (Mar 13, 2005)

Since the ST is so small, a.k.a., CR2 sized Larry Light, you don't have to worry about not having enough room in the LionDen - isn't this right, Mr. Bulky?

Regards


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 13, 2005)

Oh, you'll need way more room than that, MY - and this time I am NOT revealing a Thing to you - you might post about it!


----------



## BC0311 (Mar 13, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Amorphous said:*
Lion's Den? 

[/ QUOTE ]

"Lion's Den" I really like that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## nrk (Mar 13, 2005)

Amorphous, I also like your name Lion's Den.

I, for one, would be willing to buy a nice case that would organize and store my Lion "pride".

;-norm


----------



## Codeman (Mar 13, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*
M_R, we shall be up to our elbows with lube (some may also find their way onto the threads, too).

BugOut and gregw are BOTH correct - the LC *will accept* the LH's battery tubes, in both 150 and 168 lengths.

(gee, has a can'o worms been opened up here or What???) 

[/ QUOTE ]

It' about time that you said that out loud, Charlie! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'd heard that a few weeks back, from someone who should know. Since you hadn't mentioned it, I'd kept quiet, but it's been a killin' me. The birth of a new, modular system. Great decision! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


----------



## sputnick (Mar 13, 2005)

The interoperability with various LionHeart components is great for those of you lucky enough to have a LH. I'd like a table lamp adapter for my li-cub. Thread the business end onto an adapter equiped with a ac-dc transformer and shine it up into some sort of refractive array. Slap a lampshade on and you've got a 32/way desk lamp! Actually, if the cub could handle the heat without effecting component life too much i'll have to rig something up when i get mine. I could prob get the right size tube machined in the university shop and the rest would be easy enough. How about a cpf limited edition lioncub desklamp? Get some silk screened logos on the lamp shades... eh...oh the wait!


----------



## gregw (Mar 13, 2005)

**** LionCub Ordering Notice ****

****************************************************************************************** 
There seems to be a frenzy on LionCub NAT now that all have been reserved. I would suggest that those of you who have reserved a LionCub in NAT but not paid, to please pay up now so I don't have to progressively give each of you 24 hour notices as those in search of an NAT go up the reserve but unpaid list. Please check the latest list on the ordering thread here. 

Since I DO NOT have access to information about payments that you have sent to Dan, please post on the ordering thread once you have paid, so I can update the list. 
******************************************************************************************


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 13, 2005)

Think of it this way - there are 125 black LionHearts out there, and only 100 black LCs to be made. Given the interchangeability of the tubes one would think the blacks would be quite popular.


----------



## Dandrop (Mar 14, 2005)

I feel for you greg...Once again, thank you for your tireless efforts in organizing the list. You are doing a spectacular job. If i were in Hong Kong, i'd buy you a beer!


----------



## cue003 (Mar 14, 2005)

We are for sure entering into the modular realm with the LH and now the LC. Will we then see the 5W or flood capability come to fruition as well in the mod chain? Or is the Lion pride only to be a LUX III only family? Then all you will need to build in the business end since we will already have the different heads and battery tubes.

Just curious.

thanks.

Curtis


----------



## Weylan (Mar 14, 2005)

Ok, as a soon new owner of a LionCub, I hate to ask this, but since I do a ton of work with nmih AA cells and they are a dime a dozen, with a capacity from 2100mah to now 2800mah, this might be a nice way to get a boost in capacity that cr123s just can't give some times, even now with the rechargables. I see from the posting that the LionCub is versital and interchangable with the LionHeart and the LionHead and I am going to need a LionDen to keep everything in. (Are we going to have to start using "(tm)" all the time now?) But using 3xAA might be really useful I think if the body was available and compatible? Am I just nuts or would this be a nice thing? I know that "Charlie" (Mr. Bulk) (See, we are listening!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif has considered the interchangability and compatability with older designs, but this might be nice. If not a 3x AA body, then 16850 bodys? I guess all this is for consideration to make this a really versitile system for use in how I want to use it or the light needs to be used.


----------



## bindibadgi (Mar 14, 2005)

I hope the STs will be announced in this thread. I'd hate to cruise on by it without noticing.

And I'm not around on weekends, so I hope I won't be missing it then either.

Gee whiz Charlie, you're makin' me nervous here. I'll be in on a ST for sure but I'm gettin' twitchy here knowing that there ain't gonna be 200 of 'em!


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 14, 2005)

Curt, I am no longer exactly enamored with the 5W Luxeon. Lumileds has already informed the major flashlight companies that they are not developing it further, especially when the Lux IIIs can and soon will make a similar amount of light, and with only one die from which to get rid of the heat instead of four of'em packed together, it's a no-brainer. Keep in mind that the 5W whites have never been rated higher than the couple of thousand hours (and that's driven only at spec) that they have from the beginning. In fact initially Lumileds was so careful (concerned?) they only rated it for 500 hours of life...

Weylan, making a 3AA longtube would end up driving it about as hard as an LGI, so it's possible, but not probably. The light would grow to be two-thirds to three-quarters of a foot long! I guess we could design a side-by-side tri-AA holder but the development costs (especially the plastic molding setup, etc.) would be incredible, and I'd be worried sick about how many would actually buy them. But a good idea nonethelss. Mebbe a longtube machined from Al in limited quantities - at about a hundred bucks each... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

bindi - hopefully my experienced guesstimate holds true, that not ALL Cub buyers will want one, maybe about two-thirds of them, for which I will indeed have enough ST's to go around. But if not...

Anyway there will either be a post here or a new thread with the "ST" title. I'm sure you won't miss it.


----------



## andrewwynn (Mar 14, 2005)

where can i get a 168 length LH tube? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif i had no idea the heads would swap.. now i'm really glad i signed up for the NAT version of the cub. 

-awr


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 14, 2005)

Otokoyama...made a 2nd run of them, although I am not sure if he is sold out or what.


----------



## diggdug13 (Mar 14, 2005)

Andrew,
they were made by Otokoyama, but the 2nd run was sold out and closed for some months ago. here is the link 168 LH tube thread

I've seen some people WTB on the B/S/T with decent luck.
sorry couldn't help ya any more than this
doug


----------



## Likebright (Mar 14, 2005)

Ohh man, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif---
That magic word "Modularity" with my Li-on Hearts and Li-on Cub - just sucked another 307 bucks out of my wallet. 
"I was gona try to hold off on the Li-on Cub" He said, twitching, shaking and drooling profusely. 
Thanks Charlie


----------



## BC0311 (Mar 14, 2005)

Those who've already ordered the CPF/TW LionCub and that Charlie is first extending the opportunity for an ST to are going to be very happy they did so when it's revealed. 

This is really, really cool of you, Charlie. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif Britt


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 14, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*BC0311 said:*
Those who've already ordered the CPF/TW LionCub and that Charlie is first extending the opportunity for an ST to are going to be very happy they did so when it's revealed. 

This is really, really cool of you, Charlie. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif Britt 

[/ QUOTE ]

Britt, _not a word,<font color="red"> *YA PROMISED!!!*_ </font> /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad71.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad71.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad71.gif


----------



## BC0311 (Mar 14, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif OK, ok....rats. I wuz jis havin' a lil fun wif 'em, Charlie. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif sorry.

I promise not to say nuthin' 'cept /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif from here on out. 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


----------



## raggie33 (Mar 14, 2005)

lol i wont say nothing either.im still way behind on this thread but i love the light


----------



## prescottrecorder (Mar 14, 2005)

Well then, I won't say anything either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Now that I've promised, Mr Bulk can feel free to tell me something /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## mst3k (Mar 14, 2005)

Im not even sure if I am getting an ST, but after all the commotion I sure hope I do. I would also rather open my package and find out what it is, rather than read it here. Itll be like Xmas! So please if you know what the ST is, please don't tell me. 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/santa.gif 



Ok, so What is it??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


Just kidding!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So until then. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## BuddTX (Mar 14, 2005)

So, Have I missed the details about the Battery that will be the default battery for the LC?

Here is how I feel about my lights:

"Bigger is better, as long as it is SMALL and LITE enough!"

While it sounds funny, I am being serious.

I really like my LH with the optional 168a body style on my LH . It has several hours of light, yet it is small enough to fit in the pocket, or in your palm.

Is there any advantage to using these new batteries, over a Pila battery? (Besides size, that is)

Thanks Charlie.


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 14, 2005)

_*"I know Nuh-Thinkk, NUH-THINKK!!!"*_

Don't worry, by the time your package arrives you will know you bought an ST (your Paypal or bank account will tell you that) although I could do what mst3k seemed to suggest - just "trust me" and buy the ST sight unseen and description unannounced for a Truly Christmas feeling when you open the package...

Hey - you guys want me to do it this way for real?

And as for answering Bruce, I am trying to make it so you can use anything in there, from most any type of rechargeable to primaries (although much dimmer on a primary CR123).

The key is balance - a nice low Vf Bin Code such as an "H" would make the light *almost* acceptably bright on a CR123, but it would blow out pretty quick (maybe even immediately if you happen to get the absolute lowest VF Luxeon of the range that each bin code covers, since the good ol' "LL" is still alive and kickin', and not just in color tint, neither) when you stick a fully charged 4.5V Li-on in there.

So I might have to add a smidge of resistance somewhere along the electrical path. OR - I could go with a higher Vf (J or K as in the LH's) and not worry about anything - but then a CR123 would make even lower brightness.

So I still have to decide (I do indeed gots TWO distinct Codes of Luxeons); however, please kindly refrain from requesting a special configuration as I will not be able to accommodate you (and may even boot you out of line - *gulp* - did I just say that?).

Now screwing on a 168A LongTube from the LionHeart will present big-time temptation to use two CR123s, but just as with the LionHearts - _dooooooon't *DO IT!!!*_

Stay tuned...


----------



## JimH (Mar 14, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*

Hey, you guys want me to do it this way for real?


[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't been disappointed with any MR Bulk creations so far, so I'm a go for it. Just let me know how much I owe. 

Will it come in a plain brown wrapper?


----------



## nrk (Mar 14, 2005)

I'm in for a surprise package.

;-norm


----------



## nrk (Mar 14, 2005)

Actually should have said *S*urprise *T*reat


----------



## mst3k (Mar 14, 2005)

Ah, well that is a fact I didnt know. I thought the ST was something going out with the LC's. Oh its a money thang!

No matter, as has been stated,Ive never been disappointed with a Mr Bulk offering so Im in. How much and when??


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 14, 2005)

You just gave me an idea JimH - mebbe I might could stretch - a condom over it! No, wait, if it's bigger than a breadbox...well, I could just buy a gross of "Large Size" condoms - but if the ST turns out really small I could just get by with the "Oriental Size"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif


----------



## bindibadgi (Mar 14, 2005)

I don't mind a bit of Christmas stretching out into the year, so if you let me know the cost I'd be happy to do without the description. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Weylan (Mar 15, 2005)

Charlie, why would a 3x AA long tube be so expensive and long? I thought that the LionCub was 1x 123? If so, a longtube of 3xAA which is the equivalent "~" of 1x 123, to be about the same, you would have the tube be ~15cm for the cells (6 inches). So I didn't think it would be that long. I could live with the 1x 123 size, but I had been curious about a compatable tube for AA.

Since I am new at this too, what is an LGI? Is this the bin for the LED?

[ QUOTE ]
Weylan, making a 3AA longtube would end up driving it about as hard as an LGI, so it's possible, but not probably. The light would grow to be two-thirds to three-quarters of a foot long! I guess we could design a side-by-side tri-AA holder but the development costs (especially the plastic molding setup, etc.) would be incredible, and I'd be worried sick about how many would actually buy them. But a good idea nonethelss. Mebbe a longtube machined from Al in limited quantities - at about a hundred bucks each... 

[/ QUOTE ]


----------



## diggdug13 (Mar 15, 2005)

Charlie,
Your killing me!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Christo_pull_hair.gif
Everymorning when I wake up before my cup of coffee, before I read the news, heck before I say goodmorning to my wife (the last one is a bad thing I found out) I end up checking all your post just to make sure I didn't miss the ST sign-up while I was sleeping. Your killing me!! and if your not trying you are doing a good job. 

Oh yea my bank account is using your name in vain as we speak (as I push money over to my PP waiting just incase the list shows up sooner rather than later)

Doug


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 15, 2005)

Weylan the birth of an LC 3AA tube is all about how many people would buy one. I dunno, maybe 20? In which case the minimum CNC setup charges, CAD drawings, and whatever other associated costs required to bring it to reality, etc., are only spread out across 20 units instead of 200. I do not think the final tube cost would be anywhere near $100 but I was making a point. Even then a 6-inch tube when mated to the other two inches of the control module/bezel makes it about 8 inches long or 2/3rds of a foot which is one of the figures I mentioned. Maybe in the near future, but we have to see how it goes. One thing I do know from past projects is that people will extoll every virtue they can think of to get a part or accessory or feature of the upcoming light into existence, but the reality is that only a few people will actually think enough of it to buy it. Then the modder gets stuck with a bunch of extra parts nobody else wants. Yet if he makes only a limited number of them to make sure he can rid of them all, the price goes way too high. Catch-22 either way, with me doing the catching.

duggy, the ST won't be talked about (except in these threads guessing what it might be) for another month or two, when the machined light parts are finally in my hands and we can start putting them together. Then they get shipped to the distributor (TW) after which I will then offer the ST to LC buyers only. So, no need to check incessantly at this time, but maybe start ramping up the check frequency about a month from now...? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## diggdug13 (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks for the update, you just saved me from the "evil eye" everymorning from my wife.


----------



## JimH (Mar 15, 2005)

Doug,

Being in your line of work, I'm sure there are many other situations that will fill the void and get you the "evil eye".


----------



## diggdug13 (Mar 15, 2005)

Jim,

LOL. you are sooo right, but now I can atleast say goodmorning to her before she finds a reasone to give me the "evil eye".


----------



## BC0311 (Mar 15, 2005)

Before they close this thread and start another, I thought I'd put this cool rendering at the tail end so people don't have to look for it.







I wonder if the plastic lid off a 1 lb. coffee can will fit the bezel? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Britt


----------



## loalight (Mar 15, 2005)

I just keep getting more excited!


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 15, 2005)

A 1 lb. coffee can? Naw, mebbe more like a 5 lb. (j/k)... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## Crash (Mar 16, 2005)

Charlie,

You commented in an earlier post about the short life expectancy of the 5 watt Luxeons. What are the life expectancies of the LED's in the LH and the LC? Are we still talking thousands of hours or less than 1,000 hours?


----------



## LightChucker (Mar 16, 2005)

*Re: LionCub - First Pictures (CAD & Logo)*

[ QUOTE ]
*andrewwynn said:*
looks very nice.. with the IMS20 in there whoa, beautiful beam.. nice size.. i am sooo tempted. 

[/ QUOTE ]

andrewwynn,

In my case, temptation is not an issue this time, but allocation is. At least now I know that I have a limit on what I am willing to spend on a light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

Chuck


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 16, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Crash said:*
Charlie,

You commented in an earlier post about the short life expectancy of the 5 watt Luxeons. What are the life expectancies of the LED's in the LH and the LC? Are we still talking thousands of hours or less than 1,000 hours? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I could indulge in the luxury of being able to guess the actual hours of lifespan or even set a threshold such as more or less than so many thousands of hours, but alas, I cannot. Instead I appeal to common sense, namely how often and in what manner it is used - continual runtime "tests" on High many episodes in a row will certainly affect lifespan as compared to using it only as a bedside light on Low to find your way to the loo at night. 

These are of course extremes and there are so many gradations of usage in between them, and when you factor in the variables such as are you a habitual "topper-upper" of your lithiums (or do you tend to run them down till the light starts dimming first), not to mention the variation between individual Luxeons themselves, it does make for a way wider span of maximum and minimum ranges.

I Will say though that a single die as compared to four dice squeezed together shoulder to shoulder like in the 5W, will assuredly have a considerably longer life. And remember that Lumileds rated the 5W at those low hours just driven at spec!

Real world demands require real world solutions, and that is why the ease of replacing the Luxeon was specifically designed into the LH and now the LC, even more so in the case of the Cub (as end users will eventually see upon delivery and inevitable partial disassembly of their lights), not so much in anticipation of any failures, but rather to foresee the unstoppable forward progress of LEDs in general. I recently received information from some "industry insiders" that LED products, especially the major models from players such as Cree, Lumileds, Nichia and Lamina Ceramics, will be increasing their output thresholds 30% by the end of this year...

...at which time you desolder the two wires from your old Luxeon and resolder them to your new, 30% brighter one... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


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## DavidR (Mar 16, 2005)

Thanks for the "inside info" Charlie...this is great information.


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## Rudi (Mar 16, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*

[ QUOTE ]
. . . and when you factor in the variables such as are you a habitual "topper-upper" of your lithiums (or do you tend to run them down till the light starts dimming first), . . . 

[/ QUOTE ] 



So which do the batteries and the LEDs prefer, topping the batteries up or running them down?


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## MR Bulk (Mar 16, 2005)

Yer welcome DavidR. And now...

*UPDATE 3-16-05:*

First photo of a complete LionCub body:






Of course more cuts are still to be made but this is an exact representation, aside from the finish, of how an assembled Cub will look... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## bajaiman (Mar 16, 2005)

Very nice! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif ... MR B, what size of reflector used for the CUB?


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## Trev1960 (Mar 16, 2005)

Amazing........Thanks CHarlie


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## SolarFlare (Mar 16, 2005)

That looks damn tasty /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif


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## MR Bulk (Mar 16, 2005)

It will be a hair over 3/4" total width by a hair under 11/16" total height.


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## BC0311 (Mar 16, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif I really like that checkering. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I've adapted back to using the side switch for use alongside a handgun. I manage to use my ring finger quite well given the advanced stage of my pretrification. I can turn the light on and not have to maintain switch pressure with concomitant tremors. A tap and the light's doused if necessary. Also, I'm holding the light in a much more secure grip than the syringe or cigar grips. Amazing how things jump out of your hands when you're pegging the pucker meter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Charlie and others of you remember using 3D Mags and Streamlights back-in-the-day this way. But there is a world of difference doing it with the little LH or a LC. Not having to wag a tail of 10 inches of D cells helps a lot.

That LionHead on a Cub mounted to a Ruger 1022 would make a great little rat shooter, eh? You can adjust the output to your distance.


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## mst3k (Mar 16, 2005)

beautiful lil lite, Charlie


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## vontech (Mar 16, 2005)

My Gawd!!! Positively <font color="red">*SENSUAL*</font>, Charlie, if you don't mind me saying! (Nothing intended here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif -- just really getting excited about this little light).

This is my biggest investment yet in a light, and I'm feeling better about it every minute. Your craftsmanship is AWESOME!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wow.gif

vontech


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## MR Bulk (Mar 16, 2005)

Britt, glad you like the design. The bodies of both the LH and LC are 1-inch in diameter (with the LC being that dimension all the way through except for the wasp waist) so most any set of scope rings (uh, make that "ring") will serve as a mount for most any firearm/airgun with a scope rail groove. And yes, the old way of using the Mags has just been updated with the sideswitched Lion series, without the bothersome accompanying ten-inch tailwag issue!

mst3k/vontech, thanks, and especially to vontech I deeply appreciate your starting the obsession for higher-end lights by getting one a mine! (but note I said "starting" - 'cause it won't stop here!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


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## Endeavour (Mar 16, 2005)

Crash: The LEDs last for multiple thousands of hours if driven at spec, which is 700mA-1000mA on the Luxeon III. The phosphor degrades a lot faster depending on how overdriven the LED is. The LED won't just peter out, phosphor degradation will just be a slow, progressive lack of brightness from the LED with continued use at higher than spec levels.

The Luxeon V, for example, is rated at 500 hours, but lasts far more than that. The more you overdrive it, the less it lasts though. After those 500 hours the LED tends to be a good bit dimmer than when it was first lit, even though it still works.

Take the Arc AAAs, for example. They were an angry blue color because the little nichia LED it used was rated at 20mA but driven at 60mA. Folks would buy new AAA lights for whatever reason and they were brighter than the older ones they had used for some time, with no change in LEDs or driver tech, etc.

So, as a wrapup, no one is going to be able to give you a definite answer for that question. However, the higher the overdrive of the LED, the faster the phosphor degrades, and the dimmer the LED becomes. If driven at spec the LED should last for multiple thousands of hours as per the tech docs over at the LumiLEDs website.


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## M_R (Mar 17, 2005)

Charlie,

WRT esthetic modularity; is the LC going to be anodized in the same natural (grey) colour as the LH? Its just that the 150 and 168 LH tails will match sooooo nicely /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks,

Matthew


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## MR Bulk (Mar 17, 2005)

I asked for a thicker buildup of anodize this time around (some commented it was too thin???) which entails a longer process (even if it's just leaving it in the tank longer) so I dunno; color may not match the prior LH's. Also, even though the CNC shop bought the same spec of Al bar stock from the same supplier, densities can vary from batch to batch...uh-oh, can you hear the theme from "Jaws" softly thrumming in the background?

We'll see I guess...

Endeavour, thank you for the detailed explanation of Luxeon lifespan and the attenuate factors affecting it, much appreciated.


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## diggdug13 (Mar 17, 2005)

Charlie,
the photo of what the LC will look like is just plain awsome, Looks like the BIG shoes from the lionheart are fitting rather nice in the little package of the LionCub.

Thanks again for taking all my $$ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif my quest to find the ultimate light thanks you and my wife wellll.. lets just "she doesn't understand why a light should cost more than 2-3 dollars"

Doug


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## andrewwynn (Mar 17, 2005)

any chance of a 1.5mm groove lenghwise 13mm long to put those marvy mini tritium vials in? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

-awr


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## Frenchyled (Mar 17, 2005)

Hey Charlie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Very nice pictures.....I always prefer this bare aluminium body /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif And, if I could express my personal opinion, I like very much the "non tactical" switch because on a small flashlight like this it is more easy to use than a tactical one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Maybe it's just my opinion /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## MR Bulk (Mar 17, 2005)

Don't worry Doug, your opportunity to claim one of the upcoming ST's will be an obvious *REWARD* in return for your faith and confidence in paying up for the LionCub virtually sight unseen just a few short weeks ago.

I am Dead Serious. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## Trev1960 (Mar 17, 2005)

I paid for the LC as soon as the thread opened, and hope to get my paws on an ST too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## MR Bulk (Mar 17, 2005)

You too, Trev. Just remain diligent, and when you read about the LionCubs being assembled (during another HAT Event), simply watch the Modder's B/S/T like a hawk, as that is likely the proper place for me to put it up...then again it wouldn't be for sale to Everyone, just Cub buyers, so mebbe I'll post it here instead.

Probably something like, "E-mail me for details on how to purchase your ST", or something like that. After all, no one but you guys (and me of course) need ever know what it even is, kinda like when everybody folds their hands in a poker game so the winner just rakes in the pot and doesn't have to show his cards. It's none of their business.

And that way should some of you decide you don't really want/need it you can put it up on e-bay and even then people will bid on it just on face value due to its appeal, and not even know that what they are buying is a genuine ST. And especially they will never know what you paid for it, which will be less than what you Should have paid for it.

In other words, we could make it so people won't ever know what the ST is unless they bought a LionCub beforehand, kinda like how we have to vote in a CPF Poll first to see the results - an exclusive club with its own ST decoder ring... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Hey, I like this idea - I like it a lot! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Opinions?


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## Datasaurusrex (Mar 17, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*MR Bulk said:*Opinions? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Make 200 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I know I want a ST to match each of my LionCubs


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## diggdug13 (Mar 17, 2005)

That sounds like a great way, but.. could it be easier to assemble a distribution list of those that purchased the LC. and send out a bulk email(no pun intended) to them, that way you wouldn't have do dig through the endless amounts of email from those that want a ST but didn't buy a LC and checking to see if they were or were not on the list. 

at first it might be a pain in the rear but it might make it easier in the end. 

doug


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## CPFMan (Mar 17, 2005)

Mr Bulk,

That ST sure looks mighty good with my prepaid LC. Please count me in.


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## Sakugenken (Mar 17, 2005)

Wow, it is really looking good. The Itishiki on my keychain is getting nervous.


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## BC0311 (Mar 17, 2005)

This is exciting! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif 

I think it's terrific that the ones who've ordered a Cub will get first shot at the ST. I doubt there will be more than a couple left over, if that.

Britt > /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif -or else- Charlie > /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif < Britt


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## Codeman (Mar 17, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*diggdug13 said:*
That sounds like a great way, but.. could it be easier to assemble a distribution list of those that purchased the LC. and send out a bulk email(no pun intended) to them, that way you wouldn't have do dig through the endless amounts of email from those that want a ST but didn't buy a LC and checking to see if they were or were not on the list. 

at first it might be a pain in the rear but it might make it easier in the end. 

doug 

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this idea, but I'll be keeping an eye on CPF, just in case! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Charlie, if you go the bulk email route, may I humbly suggest getting the list from Dan? Some of us use a private email address for important things, but have a public one in our profiles on CPF. I've found this is a great way to avoid spam. In close to 3 years, I have yet to receive one spam email from someone who I hadn't given my address to first. It's nice not having to wait through the crap to find the good stuff, ya know! I seriously doubt this would ever be a problem with a CPF regular, but trollers are a different story.


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## Frenchyled (Mar 17, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*BC0311 said:*
This is exciting! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif 

I think it's terrific that the ones who've ordered a Cub will get first shot at the ST. I doubt there will be more than a couple left over, if that.

Britt > /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif -or else- Charlie > /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif < Britt 

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope that there will be more than a couple left over /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


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## MR Bulk (Mar 17, 2005)

I will continue whatever communication with respect to these last few posts in the next chapter of this thread (entitled, "LIONCUB UPDATE THREAD, PT. 2" or similar) as this one will be closed shortly.

*Moderators, I have been asked to close all LionCub threads except one, so I am requesting that this current thread of the "LIONCUB UPDATE" be shut down. A new one has been started entitled with the appropriate "chapter number" as this thread has exceeded the 200-reply limit. Thank you kindly.

And to all participants, PLEASE, it has been requested that you refrain from starting your own LC threads and stay with the current (new) entitled, "LIONCUB UPDATE THREAD - PT. 2" which is located HERE. *


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