# SureFire Dominator is coming



## Lurveleven (Jan 9, 2013)

It have looked like one of the SureFire catalog lights never going to happen, but it is now available for pre order, so it is finally becoming available!
Anyone else planing to get this?


----------



## Divine_Madcat (Jan 9, 2013)

I guess i am missing something - is the only reason this costs $40 short of a grand, because it is Surefire? I mean, there are plenty of other good Li-ion lights, that hit or exceed 2k Lumens, for far less than this. 

Apologies for a perceived thread crap, but i just don't see how they can justify the cost?


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 9, 2013)

Please let not this turn into another SureFire price discussion thread.


----------



## Divine_Madcat (Jan 9, 2013)

Well, given that it doesn't carry features other lights don't have, what else is there to discuss?


How about this.. What am i getting by paying 750 more over say, a TN30 (a light i have been considering now that it is upgraded and on sale...)? I don't care what brand it is.. If you are going to ask that much more than your competiton, you should have a good reason, no?


----------



## tonkem (Jan 9, 2013)

Surefire is a premium light maker and as has been noted before, you either pay the premium or you don't.  nothing more to say about the price. Just like lupine lights command a premium price. Their betty package is almost $900 as well and puts out 2600 lumens. It is all in what you want.


----------



## shane45_1911 (Jan 9, 2013)

I own Surefires. Lots of Surefires, by some people's standards. 
But I have to agree. This light is just not 10 or 20 bucks more than something similar. It is HUNDREDS of dollars more. If there truly are features and functions that justify the price, I am all ears.


----------



## Beckler (Jan 9, 2013)

The only thing worse than another 'Surefire vs. everyone else' thread is people complaining about it. Who cares where the discussion goes--let it happen. Not everyone is a flashlight mega-geek who has read every CPF posting six times over.


----------



## mgscheue (Jan 9, 2013)

Well, it does come with a battery... .


----------



## romteb (Jan 9, 2013)

I wish it was more expensive, as the saying goes "you get what you pay for", make it 2000$ and you have a 108.33% improvment in quality.


----------



## leon2245 (Jan 9, 2013)

Lurveleven, thanks for the heads up on this light. Forgot about it, & assumed it would never happen like so many other SF's. For me, probably only in my dreams (could only pretend to have needs for something like this to justify splurging), but still exciting, and will be looking forward to reviews etc. Sorry your thread immediately got derailed with the typical stuff. Maybe mods will cut that out for you.






Divine_Madcat said:


> Well, given that it doesn't carry features other lights don't have, what else is there to discuss?



Hey DM would it blow your mind if I told you some members here would actually be willing to pay _more_ for certain lights... if they only had _fewer_ features?


----------



## JohnnyMac (Jan 9, 2013)

Illum said:


> What do you think Surefire means by a "9-square LED?"


More than likely that is referring to the LED size. 9mmx9mm square, as in the new Cree MTG-2 emitter which happens to put out 2000 lumens driven to specs. Seems to me this is more than likely the emitter being used in this light.





*Size (mm x mm)*8.9 x 8.9*Product options*6 V, 9 V, 36 V*Maximum drive current (A)*3 (6 V), 2 (9 V), 0.5 (36 V)*Maximum power (W)*18.5W @ 85°C*Light output*Up to 1987.5 lm @ 18.5 W, 85°C*Viewing angle (degrees)*115*Binning*85°C, 2- and 4-Step EasyWhite®*Thermal resistance (°C/W)*1.5*Reflow-solderable*Yes – JEDEC J-STD-020C-compatible*RoHS and REACH-compliant*Yes


----------



## The_Driver (Jan 9, 2013)

There is a picture somewhere that shows a prototype Dominator at one of the shot shows. The prototype had a Luminus CBT-90 led (domeless SST-90 on a thick copper pcb). I guess the competitor would be the Skillhunt K30GT.

*EDIT: *9*9mm is huge for an led. 9 square millimeters would make much more sense, since the SST-90/SBT-90/CBT-90s are that big.


----------



## Sintro (Jan 9, 2013)

Trolling post removed.


----------



## tobrien (Jan 9, 2013)

JohnnyMac said:


> More than likely that is referring to the LED size. 9mmx9mm square, as in the new Cree MTG-2 emitter which happens to put out 2000 lumens driven to specs. Seems to me this is more than likely the emitter being used in this light.
> [IM]http://www.cree.com/~/media/Images/Cree/Components%20Modules/XLamp/MTG2/MTG2_Cool_Angle_med.JPG[/IMG]
> 
> 
> *Size (mm x mm)*8.9 x 8.9*Product options*6 V, 9 V, 36 V*Maximum drive current (A)*3 (6 V), 2 (9 V), 0.5 (36 V)*Maximum power (W)*18.5W @ 85°C*Light output*Up to 1987.5 lm @ 18.5 W, 85°C*Viewing angle (degrees)*115*Binning*85°C, 2- and 4-Step EasyWhite®*Thermal resistance (°C/W)*1.5*Reflow-solderable*Yes – JEDEC J-STD-020C-compatible*RoHS and REACH-compliant*Yes


good thought, I bet youre right


----------



## Old-Lumens (Jan 9, 2013)

I really don't see trashing any thread, just because of the price of the light or the name brand. So they have high priced lights, so what, some will want it, some will not. I don't see the big deal really, or the trashing that goes on. I will never buy one, but I would say "more power to you" for anyone that does. If it's what you want, it's what you want, just like one car maker over another. Poor people call rich people snobs and rich people say poor people "have no class". So what, move on.

Just sayin...


----------



## välineurheilija (Jan 9, 2013)

Sintro said:


> One thing I don't get about the Dominator is the cooling fins. What are their purpose?



Maybe they are for cooling 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Illum (Jan 9, 2013)

JohnnyMac said:


> *Size (mm x mm)*8.9 x 8.9*Product options*6 V, 9 V, 36 V*Maximum drive current (A)*3 (6 V), 2 (9 V), 0.5 (36 V)*Maximum power (W)*18.5W @ 85°C*Light output*Up to 1987.5 lm @ 18.5 W, 85°C*Viewing angle (degrees)*115*Binning*85°C, 2- and 4-Step EasyWhite®*Thermal resistance (°C/W)*1.5*Reflow-solderable*Yes – JEDEC J-STD-020C-compatible*RoHS and REACH-compliant*Yes



6V, 9V, 36V... thats an odd selection for foward voltage. 
12 CR123a is 36V [OCV anyway], I wonder who came up with the concept that 12 CR123A is considered a "practical" way to power a light. Although 36V 0.5A seems really easy on the batteries.


----------



## Tiresius (Jan 9, 2013)

Is it safe to run so many primaries on a light that will draw a lot out of them?


----------



## TEEJ (Jan 9, 2013)

I think for a lot of people its like watches.

A Rolex might cost several thousand dollars, and yet the time it tells you might be the same as a $10 Timex....and people will say "Hey, I get get a watch that tells me the same time as that $2000 watch for only $10, WHY in the world would I spend $2k?


----------



## Divine_Madcat (Jan 9, 2013)

leon2245 said:


> Lurveleven, thanks for the heads up on this light. Forgot about it, & assumed it would never happen like so many other SF's. For me, probably only in my dreams (could only pretend to have needs for something like this to justify splurging), but still exciting, and will be looking forward to reviews etc. Sorry your thread immediately got derailed with the typical stuff. Maybe mods will cut that out for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, you are picking brain matter off the floor at this point.
Look, i know premium products cost more, but they bring premium features (higher end material, better performance, etc). In this case, i just cant help but feel the premium feature is the name, rather than build (i mean, if it is built from titanium, now we are talking). Perhaps some new battery technology?


----------



## pjandyho (Jan 9, 2013)

The price may be exorbitantly steep but I am still itching for one...


----------



## Z-Tab (Jan 9, 2013)

I can't imagine that I would want to haul something that size around for the 10 lumen setting. 

I look forward to reading reviews of this light. If it's fully waterproof, I bet it could compete with Polarions and other HIDs... then the price will seem a bargain.


----------



## Beckler (Jan 9, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> I think for a lot of people its like watches.
> 
> A Rolex might cost several thousand dollars, and yet the time it tells you might be the same as a $10 Timex....and people will say "Hey, I get get a watch that tells me the same time as that $2000 watch for only $10, WHY in the world would I spend $2k?



About Rolex specifically, the problem is they don't do the only thing they even exist for very well, which is to tell time...at least compared to modern watches. I'm talking about the mechanical spring ones (Perpetual?) Simply not accurate at all. But still, to each his own. If someone likes antique jewellery (Rolex), fine...who cares.


----------



## Norm (Jan 9, 2013)

Please read the rules before quoting them. No where does it say you can't post links, there are certain areas where you can't; if by posting links you look like a shill, the links will be deleted, if you post links to be a troll they'll be deleted.

Some off topic posts have been removed. 

Norm


scaru said:


> Norm: I know you are going to remove the link even though the rules don't say no links. Sorry for following the rules.


----------



## scaru (Jan 9, 2013)

Norm said:


> Please read the rules before quoting them. No where does it say you can't post links, there are certain areas where you can't; if by posting links you look like a shill, the links will be deleted, if you post links to be a troll they'll be deleted.
> 
> Some off topic posts have been removed.
> 
> Norm



Ok, so is there a reason the link to the TN30 package deal was removed? I am clearly not an ebay seller in china (ask anyone who I have bought from). I was simply pointing out that it is not a good deal, even if batteries are included. 

Inappropriate comment deleted.


----------



## Illum (Jan 9, 2013)

Tiresius said:


> Is it safe to run so many primaries on a light that will draw a lot out of them?



Probably not, but considering that a li-ion battery pack [assuming protected] is included I think surefire just tossed that tidbit in there as an emergency logistical solution in the event the charging of its li-ion cannot be field improvised.
Who knows, it could be a series parallel arrangement like the M6


----------



## Tuikku (Jan 9, 2013)

What kind of tint selection will there be, any idea?


----------



## TEEJ (Jan 9, 2013)

Divine_Madcat said:


> Yep, you are picking brain matter off the floor at this point.
> Look, i know premium products cost more, but they bring premium features (higher end material, better performance, etc). In this case, i just cant help but feel the premium feature is the name, rather than build (i mean, if it is built from titanium, now we are talking). Perhaps some new battery technology?



There are users of lights who need to be able to know that if they drop the light 20' to the ground, or bash it into a rock, and pick it up, it will still work.

They would rather pay $1,000 for 2,000 lumens that will be there after the light takes a beating....than $100 for 20,000 lumens that don't come on when they hit the switch.

That doesn't mean new technology, its means attention to survivability and reliability.

This is not a priority for most users who will get fine service from a $10 DX light, because its never subjected to a failure prone scenario...and if it does fail, no one dies typically.


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 9, 2013)

The Dominator is definitely not for everyone, but I think it will be perfect for my domain which is SAR, and I think it is pretty unique in its feature set and performance. It can give you very long runtimes at a high level of output (important since we can go from dusk til dawn), and its easy accessible temporary max button will give you that max throw you usually only need for very short moments at a time (the maxblast feature is the feature that sets SureFire ahead of the competition). 
If the specs are correct (2000lm, 165klux), then the closest compection is Olight SR95S UT and SR90. SR95S UT has better throw but less lumens, while SR90 is not throwing as well (but is close behind). But both these lights are heavier and doesn't have as user friendly interface as the Dominator. So if I should choose to get a high lumen LED thrower without considering the price, my choice would be the Dominator.


----------



## monkeyboy (Jan 9, 2013)

JohnnyMac said:


> More than likely that is referring to the LED size. 9mmx9mm square, as in the new Cree MTG-2 emitter which happens to put out 2000 lumens driven to specs. Seems to me this is more than likely the emitter being used in this light.



I hope not. That emitter will have zero throw in a flashlight. SST90 is more likely. 

Still, I wouldn't pay too much attention to these preliminary specs. IIRC, other companies in the past have offered SF pre-orders which ended up taking a very long time before products actually shipped, by which time the specs and design had changed beyond all recognition.


----------



## scaru (Jan 9, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> There are users of lights who need to be able to know that if they drop the light 20' to the ground, or bash it into a rock, and pick it up, it will still work.
> 
> They would rather pay $1,000 for 2,000 lumens that will be there after the light takes a beating....than $100 for 20,000 lumens that don't come on when they hit the switch.
> 
> ...


At least in my experience surefires are less reliable than other lights. For example the switch in my 6P has failed 3 times, the switch in my L2P hasn't failed yet. I would much rather have a light that doesn't fail rather than one that does but has a good warranty.


----------



## stp (Jan 9, 2013)

Lurveleven said:


> ...
> If the specs are correct (2000lm, 165klux), then the closest compection is Olight SR95S UT and SR90. SR95S UT has better throw but less lumens, while SR90 is not throwing as well (but is close behind). But both these lights are heavier and doesn't have as user friendly interface as the Dominator. So if I should choose to get a high lumen LED thrower without considering the price, my choice would be the Dominator.



There is also new DEFT-X from OMG Lumens with *900Kcd *(no mistake here). But I'm not sure if this light wouldn't be to throwy for SAR operations.


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 9, 2013)

stp said:


> There is also new DEFT-X from OMG Lumens with *900Kcd *(no mistake here). But I'm not sure if this light wouldn't be to throwy for SAR operations.



I have a MaxaBeam that beats it  , but it is not really usable (too narrow beam) and neither think I the DEFT is, but I have no doubt the DEFT will be cool to play with.


----------



## speedsix (Jan 9, 2013)

Search and rescue with a $1000 flashlight? If I was found be a rescuer holding a $1000 flashlight, I would ask why they didn't just hire a few more searchers instead of spending $1000 on a flashlight.


----------



## Novan3 (Jan 9, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> I think for a lot of people its like watches.
> 
> A Rolex might cost several thousand dollars, and yet the time it tells you might be the same as a $10 Timex....and people will say "Hey, I get get a watch that tells me the same time as that $2000 watch for only $10, WHY in the world would I spend $2k?



You won't find a new Rolex for as cheap as $2k...lol


----------



## Novan3 (Jan 9, 2013)

Beckler said:


> About Rolex specifically, the problem is they don't do the only thing they even exist for very well, which is to tell time...at least compared to modern watches. I'm talking about the mechanical spring ones (Perpetual?) Simply not accurate at all. But still, to each his own. If someone likes antique jewellery (Rolex), fine...who cares.



Clearly you've never owned or handled a Rolex watch for any length of time.

You're wrong, by the way.


----------



## Shadowww (Jan 9, 2013)

_*content removed by Greta... 

I just had to do it, sorry guys...



OH!! ... and user banned... _[FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]_toodles! :banned:_[/FONT]


----------



## bill_n_opus (Jan 9, 2013)

Lurveleven said:


> Please let not this turn into another SureFire price discussion thread.



Well, honestly, after years of reading CPF and observing Surefire, their products ... and yes, their pricing too - why can't people talk about it? 

Sure, it should be moved to another forum but the way I see it Surefire is what it is, they should be discussed for their characteristics warts and all.


----------



## LED_Thrift (Jan 10, 2013)

Illum said:


> 6V, 9V, 36V... thats an odd selection for foward voltage.
> 12 CR123a is 36V [OCV anyway], I wonder who came up with the concept that 12 CR123A is considered a "practical" way to power a light. Although 36V 0.5A seems really easy on the batteries.


I don't think CREE was thinking about handheld flashlights when they spec'd the 36V forward voltage. With this kind of lumens, I'm surprised there is not a 14v -16v flavor for automotive use, although I guess they have something else for that.


----------



## TweakMDS (Jan 10, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> There are users of lights who need to be able to know that if they drop the light 20' to the ground, or bash it into a rock, and pick it up, it will still work.
> 
> They would rather pay $1,000 for 2,000 lumens that will be there after the light takes a beating....than $100 for 20,000 lumens that don't come on when they hit the switch.
> 
> ...



You're painting a very black and white picture of reliability here. How about:
- one $1000 light with 2000 lumens, good warranty and great QC, but not immune to breaking. Let's say 99.7% reliable.
versus
- Two $200 lights with 2000 lumens, slightly worse warranty (but still decent), average QC but can still take a punch. Guesstimation 98.1% reliable. 

I think this is more realistic of what's actually in the market, and the reliability numbers are of course totally pulled out of my behind and probably way too much in favor of the surefire light.


----------



## Norm (Jan 10, 2013)

bill_n_opus said:


> Well, honestly, after years of reading CPF and observing Surefire, their products ... and yes, their pricing too - why can't people talk about it?
> 
> Sure, it should be moved to another forum but the way I see it Surefire is what it is, they should be discussed for their characteristics warts and all.



Certainly it can be talked about, providing you don't behave like a troll whilst doing it.

Certain ex members posted in this thread with the specific intent of trolling, if you want to discuss budget lights you're free to do so, just don't crap on threads discussing lights that hold no appeal to you. There are plenty of members who do want to discuss high end flashlights without constantly being pestered by trolls. There are ways of discussing pros and cons without the deliberate trolling evident throughout this thread. 

I for one would never buy such an expensive light, that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the quality and engineering that has gone into it; no one is forcing you to buy a Dominator, why would you feel the need to trash the discussion by introducing completely spurious arguments? It makes as much sense as comparing a Timex with a Tag, there is a market for both, and I don't see people getting hot and bothered about the premium Tag charges for their watches. 

Why don't Polarion HIDs attract the same ridiculous comparisons with cheap Chinese HIDs? It makes just as much sense.

Norm


----------



## Tiresius (Jan 10, 2013)

TweakMDS said:


> You're painting a very black and white picture of reliability here. How about:
> - one $1000 light with 2000 lumens, good warranty and great QC, but not immune to breaking. Let's say 99.7% reliable.
> versus
> - Two $200 lights with 2000 lumens, slightly worse warranty (but still decent), average QC but can still take a punch. Guesstimation 98.1% reliable.
> ...



How about getting your light repaired for free most of the time? I had a U2A at one point and Surefire asked me to send in my light because it leaked. I got a whole new head, tailcap and fresh battery free. They are really reliable but pricy. It's that feeling when you hold it in your hand.

Yes, the price is up there but it's also backed by the best warranty and CS I've seen so far. And I've only had 2 lights then. Now, I have just one (6P). A comparison at this is the Solarforce P60's vs the Surefire's 6P. They feel different in the hand.


----------



## pjandyho (Jan 10, 2013)

TweakMDS said:


> You're painting a very black and white picture of reliability here. How about:
> - one $1000 light with 2000 lumens, good warranty and great QC, but not immune to breaking. Let's say 99.7% reliable.
> versus
> - Two $200 lights with 2000 lumens, slightly worse warranty (but still decent), average QC but can still take a punch. Guesstimation 98.1% reliable.
> ...


Assuming that money is not a problem, then *two* $1000 light with 2000 lumens, good warranty and great QC, but not immune to breaking would give you a total of 199.4% reliability, if there is such a thing as 199.4%. LOL!


----------



## moozooh (Jan 10, 2013)

And ten $200 lights will be "981% reliable" then for the same price. Your point?..

TweakMDS meant that SF commands such a premium for reliability (borderline mythical, as every SF thread has a couple users reporting leaks or broken switches or whatnot) that one could just buy several slightly less reliable lights of similar or better specs for the same price, and there's literally no chance a single SF will outlive all of them under similar usage conditions.

But eh, if people are willing to pay for that, more power to them. After all, this new SF does seem to offer something unique, although 1 kg weight is nothing short of preposterous.


----------



## FPSRelic (Jan 10, 2013)

Lurveleven said:


> I have a MaxaBeam that beats it  , but it is not really usable (too narrow beam) and neither think I the DEFT is, but I have no doubt the DEFT will be cool to play with.



It's interesting that you mention Maxabeam, because Maxabeam's are the type of light that I see the Dominator competing against. Now I doubt that even the Dominator could compete with the Maxabeam's 12,000,000 candela beam, but the Dominator is lighter and cheaper than the Maxabeam, and I would hope that the eficiencies of LED would mean that the Dominator's runtime on low might be longer.

As for the price, you get what you pay for, and you pay for a lifetime warranty. I'll bet Surefire knows how many times this baby may need to be replaced over the lifetime of the most abusive professional, and they would factor the cost of the replacements into the price. Any extra low cost engineering they can do to improve reliability means more profit for Surefire in the long run. The most abusive professional would buy one of these lights because for them, provided they don't upgrade their light every 12 months, this light will end up being cheaper in the long run due to less downtime from failures and waiting for warranty repairs, and the ability to have faults in the light repaired 20 years from now, vs having to replace the cheaper ones every 4 or 5 years.


----------



## Timothybil (Jan 10, 2013)

speedsix said:


> Search and rescue with a $1000 flashlight? If I was found be a rescuer holding a $1000 flashlight, I would ask why they didn't just hire a few more searchers instead of spending $1000 on a flashlight.


The thing to remember is that many SAR personnel are volunteers who provide their own equipment, to make sure of what they have to work with as opposed to what might be available in East Armpit, Nowheresville if that is where the rescue is. I know that if I was doing SAR and putting my life and the lives of whoever I was looking for on the line, I would want something that I felt comfortable with and knew I could depend on. And that depend on thing is where Surefire really stands out.


----------



## pjandyho (Jan 10, 2013)

moozooh said:


> And ten $200 lights will be "981% reliable" then for the same price. Your point?..
> 
> TweakMDS meant that SF commands such a premium for reliability (borderline mythical, as every SF thread has a couple users reporting leaks or broken switches or whatnot) that one could just buy several slightly less reliable lights of similar or better specs for the same price, and there's literally no chance a single SF will outlive all of them under similar usage conditions.
> 
> But eh, if people are willing to pay for that, more power to them. After all, this new SF does seem to offer something unique, although 1 kg weight is nothing short of preposterous.


My point is I won't be carrying ten lights with me that's for sure. Many people who would buy a Surefire bought it for the reliability, because they depend on that reliability. True, any given brand can and may spoil over time, sometime even when it's still new out of box, even if it is a Surefire. With that said, even though Surefire may also be prone to failure, they do indeed have a strong reputation for reliability. I have had many Surefire lights in my time of being a flashaholic and have never encountered any serious problem with them. What I am saying is that if reliability is a concern then I would rather minimize my chances of failure with a manufacturer who have a proven track record and not lug along 3 or 4 lights just to make sure that I am all covered, but that's me and I am sure many would disagree.


----------



## tab665 (Jan 10, 2013)

first, at this point we dont know if that 1000 dollar price tag is just the surefire retail price or not. if it is, then you can expect the price to drop by a god 200 bucks once retailers get to selling them. second, we know surefire lights in general cost more than the competitions similar offerings. theres no point in still talking about it YEARS after we all figured that out.

on topic, this light had my attention over the last 2 years or so. i was determined to get one when it ever did come out. at this time my money is tied up on a custom light thats in the works. i think surefire just took too long to release this light. my interest in big bright lights started fading.


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 10, 2013)

If the info in this link is correct then the retail is $1370 . Luckily I haven't bought any expensive lights since 2008 except for the SureFire UB3T I just got, so my flashlight budget is full  With coupon code I hope to get it in the $850 - $900 range (+ 25% Norwegian tax).


----------



## välineurheilija (Jan 10, 2013)

Lurveleven said:


> If the info in this link is correct then the retail is $1370 . Luckily I haven't bought any expensive lights since 2008 except for the SureFire UB3T I just got, so my flashlight budget is full  With coupon code I hope to get it in the $850 - $900 range (+ 25% Norwegian tax).


Does Surefire ship to Norway?


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 10, 2013)

välineurheilija said:


> Does Surefire ship to Norway?



Nope, I have my own American address through a forwarding company, the only way I can get these lights since they are not sold locally.


----------



## välineurheilija (Jan 10, 2013)

Lurveleven said:


> Nope, I have my own American address through a forwarding company, the only way I can get these lights since they are not sold locally.



I know only one importer in Finland and they have just a few models.so far ive bought 2 6P a Kroma and a G2X pro 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## marcl (Jan 10, 2013)

Let me tell guy's, if I was SAR this is probably the last light I would carry with me! Not only because If it got lost, it's the price of a car, but I would much rather carry two Solarforce or a couple of Jetbeams. If one did break I have the other. If I lost one I would not cry my eyes out. As for reliability, Surefire may have the best warranty in the Universe, but at over a grand I will sell anyone a Solarforce and give them a better one! 

In all the years that I have had my various torches I have never had a failure. The cheapest of which are L2s with generic P60 drop-ins.


----------



## speedsix (Jan 10, 2013)

My first car was $1600 and ran for years. It had two headlights that never failed me. Even had two modes, high and low beam. I could use my old Toyota Collora for search and rescue and be able to drive them to get a cup of coffee after I found them. No Surefire can do that! LOL!

Seriously, I guess I just don't see the point in spending THAT much more on something that does the same thing as a $200 light. It's an old argument. To some people it is worth it to have the Surefire name. Nobody could argue that it is five times as good as a good $200 light. It's not about performance at that price level, it's about bragging rights. 

I'm not saying you don't get anything extra for the money, I'm saying the benefits gets exponentially small as the price climbs past a certain point.


----------



## Norm (Jan 10, 2013)

*It's not about the Price*, it's either an essential tool if you buy it because you need it, or you can afford to pay the price and aren't concerned about the price. If you don't fall into either group why are you at all worried about what it costs?

Norm


----------



## marcl (Jan 10, 2013)

Norm said:


> *It's not about the Price*, it's either an essential tool if you buy it because you need it, or you can afford to pay the price and aren't concerned about the price. If you don't fall into either group why are you at all worried about what it costs?
> 
> Norm



I'm not worried.


----------



## Norm (Jan 10, 2013)

marcl said:


> I'm not worried.


You seem intent along with your other cronies to do your best to troll this thread to death, it's not happening.

Norm


----------



## marcl (Jan 10, 2013)

Norm said:


> You seem intent along with your other cronies to do your best to troll this thread to death, it's not happening.
> 
> Norm



Pardon me? I am no TROLL! Having an opinion is not trolling. Last time I checked this was a forum.


----------



## Divine_Madcat (Jan 10, 2013)

Norm said:


> *It's not about the Price*, it's either an essential tool if you buy it because you need it, or you can afford to pay the price and aren't concerned about the price. If you don't fall into either group why are you at all worried about what it costs?
> 
> Norm


Hopefully I don't fall under the other "cronies " group.

For me, it *is* about price, and here is why: aside from reputation, I see nothing published about this light that says it is worth so much more than other lights of equal function. I get that Surefire has a great following, but given I have never had a flashlight fail (other than batteries), I still can't feel like I am getting more for my money. I love being outdoors, and I love rugged equipment; but why should I feel that in the field, Surefires aluminum and glass is any tougher than any other aluminum and glass.

I guess I just can't fathom people paying so much more, for only a name (and for me, warranty is nice if I make it back OK to claim it. Anything can fail, and most pros would agree, your money is better spent in a real warranty like a backup light..).


----------



## leon2245 (Jan 10, 2013)

speedsix said:


> My first car was $1600 and ran for years. It had two headlights that never failed me. Even had two modes, high and low beam. I could use my old Toyota Collora for search and rescue and be able to drive them to get a cup of coffee after I found them. No Surefire can do that! LOL!
> 
> Seriously, I guess I just don't see the point in spending THAT much more on something that does the same thing as a $200 light. It's an old argument. To some people it is worth it to have the Surefire name. *Nobody could argue that it is five times as good as a good $200 light. It's not about performance at that price level,it's about bragging rights.*
> 
> I'm not saying you don't get anything extra for the money, I'm saying the benefits gets exponentially small as the price climbs past a certain point.




And no one has to. It's not necessary that something 5x more expensive also be 5x times better for it not to be about bragging rights *(& btw assigning motivations to others' choices is kind of frowned upon around here). *

That's just how it is with premium gear. You start paying disproportionately more & more for every step up in quality. If anyone values _whatever_ difference there is between the two enough to pay the premium, then it's worth it to them. Everyone's point of limiting returns is different, for some it will be worth it, for most of us it's not.


----------



## Norm (Jan 10, 2013)

Divine_Madcat said:


> For me, it *is* about price,


Then obviously this isn't the light for you. Purchasing this light is *not* compulsory. As stated earlier I would not buy one, I don't have the need, but neither do I feel the need to discuss the cost as if Surefire had done you or I a great injustice, pricing it as the have. Any manufacture needs to cover their RD, production costs, warrantee, marketing and still make a fair profit.

Norm


----------



## tab665 (Jan 10, 2013)

this thread isnt going to last long at all. the dominator isnt 5x more than the competetion, its 2x more if your compairing it to the olight SR's. is it worth 2x more than an olight srxxxx. maybe. i know im more tempted by the dominator at 2x the cost of an olight than an olight itself.


----------



## romteb (Jan 10, 2013)

People (cronies) concern about the price may stem from the ub3t precedent, wich not long after it's release saw it's price cut by a substantial 300$, leaving early adopters butt-hurt and inquisitive about Surefire pricing.


----------



## Illum (Jan 10, 2013)

Tuikku said:


> What kind of tint selection will there be, any idea?



Thats going a little far, Surefire as a company was never known to offer tint selections 




LED_Thrift said:


> I don't think CREE was thinking about handheld flashlights when they spec'd the 36V forward voltage. With this kind of lumens, I'm surprised there is not a 14v -16v flavor for automotive use, although I guess they have something else for that.



Even if it wasn't meant for flashlights, I'd still say that's an oddly high forward voltage... but who knows, it could be 12 separate emitters in that package


----------



## tatasal (Jan 10, 2013)

Different people have different levels of wealth (meaning money to burn) with different wants and needs. One man's Surefire is another man's excess, and one man's DX-fire is another man's waste.


----------



## baterija (Jan 10, 2013)

pjandyho said:


> Assuming that money is not a problem, then *two* $1000 light with 2000 lumens, good warranty and great QC, but not immune to breaking would give you a total of 199.4% reliability, if there is such a thing as 199.4%. LOL!



Actually using his numbers a 1.9% chance of failure in each of two lights gives you .0361% chance that both fail (you multiply not add the probabilities); in comparison two of the super spiffy .3% chance failure lights give you .0009% chance of failure. 

Chance of having one light working:
1 budget 98.1%
1 premium 99.7%
2 budget 99.97%
2 premium 99.9991%

Two really is one, and one is none.


----------



## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 10, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> I think for a lot of people its like watches.
> 
> A Rolex might cost several thousand dollars, and yet the time it tells you might be the same as a $10 Timex....and people will say "Hey, I get get a watch that tells me the same time as that $2000 watch for only $10, WHY in the world would I spend $2k?


I think the point is that while a $200 watch will generally be better than a $20 watch, a $2000 watch will not necessarily be meaningfully better than a $200 watch. The "you get what you pay for" mentality holds true only up to a point. Sometimes you're just paying for a name rather than better quality.


----------



## Novan3 (Jan 10, 2013)

tatasal said:


> Different people have different levels of wealth (meaning money to burn) with different wants and needs. One man's Surefire is another man's excess, and one man's DX-fire is another man's waste.



True story.

As an observation, Surefire seems to generate some kind of controversy more often than not.

Also interesting to see Surefire compared to Rolex; the price may suck but no arguments with the quality


----------



## baterija (Jan 10, 2013)

On a different note than all the price and diminishing returns bit, my first impressions:

- It's butt ugly to me eye. I am the guy that normally likes ruggedly functional as a look but.... Luckily I also don't care that much about looks.
- The interface is different but it's always hard to tell just what it's like till someone reviews. I'm very into UIs so that's interesting to me.
- The ergonomics seem sketchy with where the buttons are versus the ring. It could be genius and it could be annoying. I consider that part of the interface too. 
- I get why Surefire would do a proprietary battery pack. With what the light needs for power and US liability laws it makes sense to control what gets fed into it. I don't have to like it though. We'll see how they price spare packs. Proprietary anything makes me think high margin to keep up the revenue stream.

I've got absolutely no need for anything remotely like it. It's priced out of the toy market for me. The UI will make me pay attention to reviews if/when it finally gets to market.


----------



## duro (Jan 10, 2013)

Surefire isn't trying to market this light to the public, They're marketing towards the government sector. Just another prime example of your tax dollars at work. Surefire would be out of business if it weren't for uncle sam.

I'm sure they're going to sell this light for 400 USD to our government sector and claim they are getting a good deal, --which they might be at that price point.


----------



## Cypher_Aod (Jan 10, 2013)

duro said:


> Surefire isn't trying to market this light to the public, They're marketing towards the government sector. Just another prime example of your tax dollars at work. Surefire would be out of business if it weren't for uncle sam.
> 
> I'm sure they're going to sell this light for 400 USD to our government sector and claim they are getting a good deal, --which they might be at that price point.



See underlined - you just invalidated your own point with that oo:


----------



## duro (Jan 10, 2013)

Cypher_Aod said:


> See underlined - you just invalidated your own point with that oo:


 Yeah 400, not 959.99, or whatever it is.


----------



## tab665 (Jan 10, 2013)

i cant believe i keep checking this thread to see if anyone has started TALKING ABOUT THE LIGHT. personally, ive allways liked the looks, and when the 165,000 candela rating was first reported i think it might have been one of the highest throwing LED based production light out there (still is exept for a couple of lights). its a shame that a lot of people dont understand the price where they are also aware that the UDR dominator has been cooking for YEARS now. show R&D some love people.


----------



## Norm (Jan 10, 2013)

tab665 said:


> i cant believe i keep checking this thread to see if anyone has started TALKING ABOUT THE LIGHT. personally, ive allways liked the looks, and when the 165,000 candela rating was first reported i think it might have been one of the highest throwing LED based production light out there (still is exept for a couple of lights). its a shame that a lot of people dont understand the price where they are also aware that the UDR dominator has been cooking for YEARS now. show R&D some love people.



It seems some people are too busy tearing Surefire apart, to actually concentrate on the light itself.

Norm


----------



## bose301s (Jan 11, 2013)

Norm said:


> It seems some people are too busy tearing Surefire apart, to actually concentrate on the light itself.
> 
> Norm



Because the light itself is far from impressive, except for the exorbitant price tag.


----------



## Tiresius (Jan 11, 2013)

Can we keep this thread about the light itself? I can care less about the price. I'm more interested in the talks of its specs, expectations, UI, power source, throw, and parts used.


----------



## Tiresius (Jan 11, 2013)

Anyone wondering about the fuel gauge? Is it a battery indicator or can it expel gas? 

I like the idea of using a CST-90 emitter. I bet as always, the beam will be gorgeous like majority of the SF lights.


----------



## GordoJones88 (Jan 11, 2013)

This thread would be so much better with a pic!


----------



## Tiresius (Jan 11, 2013)

I would laugh if SF used a tailcap switch like what Fenix did with the TK40. That giant sized light does not call for a tailcap switch. Hence, why SF went with the side-switch. It looks like a deep, narrow reflector to me.


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 11, 2013)

marcl said:


> In all the years that I have had my various torches I have never had a failure.



Then you are lucky, here is a list of some of the lights I have had failures with over the years: Maglite, Fenix, Huntlight, Regalight, Streamlight, Tigerlight (battery pack), McGizmo (partially, lost low mode), a very expensive custom light, some crappy cheap lights and one SureFire that got delivered with a flaky switch (a Z57 clicky, they sent me a new one, no questions asked).


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 11, 2013)

Back to the Dominator, I do think there are room for improvements. There are two things I miss as far as I can see, a carrying strap like on the O-light SR series and which SF also had on their Beast HID. The second thing I miss is rubber anti roll protectors like The Beast had, so I can put it down on rocks.

Regarding the weight of this light, by todays standard with small lightweight super bright lights, it is a very heavy light, but compared to Maglites I hauled around a decade ago, it is not that bad. It is the same weight as a 4D maglite, and not much more than a 3D maglite (which I had), so it will be manageable.


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 11, 2013)

baterija said:


> On a different note than all the price and diminishing returns bit, my first impressions:
> - The interface is different but it's always hard to tell just what it's like till someone reviews. I'm very into UIs so that's interesting to me.



This Youtube video from SS2012 gives us some info about the UI. We will soon know if the interface has stayed the same till its release (I expect there soon will be a new video from SS2013).


----------



## marcl (Jan 11, 2013)

Lurveleven said:


> Then you are lucky, here is a list of some of the lights I have had failures with over the years: Maglite, Fenix, Huntlight, Regalight, Streamlight, Tigerlight (battery pack), McGizmo (partially, lost low mode), a very expensive custom light, some crappy cheap lights and one SureFire that got delivered with a flaky switch (a Z57 clicky, they sent me a new one, no questions asked).



It does sound like you have been as unlucky as I have been lucky. But it is good to know Surefire is in the list of failures. It just shows that they are all just torches at the end of the day and whilst I have no doubt surefires are good quality, they can still fail. In your instance yours probably failed quality control like many cheap lights do. Which is a shame.

On another point looking at the weight and size in the photo, It's a biggun for sure!


----------



## pjandyho (Jan 11, 2013)

Lurveleven said:


> There are two things I miss as far as I can see, a carrying strap like on the O-light SR series and which SF also had on their Beast HID.


That is what I would call a needed improvement. When I first saw the Dominator I knew I might want one. There are times where I was tempted to get an Olight SR series instead just because they bothered to include a carrying strap.


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 11, 2013)

FPSRelic said:


> It's interesting that you mention Maxabeam, because Maxabeam's are the type of light that I see the Dominator competing against. Now I doubt that even the Dominator could compete with the Maxabeam's 12,000,000 candela beam, but the Dominator is lighter and cheaper than the Maxabeam, and I would hope that the eficiencies of LED would mean that the Dominator's runtime on low might be longer.



I don't see it competing against the MaxaBeam, the MaxaBeam is in a category on its own. The MB is not very versatile, only good for extreme throw. The only time I would prefer the MB is when searching from a boat.
For me the Dominator is competing against the O-light SR lights and against 35W HIDs. IMO it beats the O-lights, and I expect it to have about the same beam profile as the SR 90 since those are specified quite the same in lux and lumens. Compared to HIDs it does have less throw and output (and the 4300K HID beam offers better rendering), but it offers much more versatility with long runtime, different light levels and instant and easy accessible max mode, so I would prefer it over a HID. I think it also competes against the SureFire UB3T. Even though the UB3T has half the throw, I found it usable to about 130 meters, that is often plenty enough. Considering the weight is about 1/3 of the Dominator, the UB3T is a tempting choice when you have a heavy pack.


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 11, 2013)

marcl said:


> It does sound like you have been as unlucky as I have been lucky. But it is good to know Surefire is in the list of failures. It just shows that they are all just torches at the end of the day and whilst I have no doubt surefires are good quality, they can still fail. In your instance yours probably failed quality control like many cheap lights do. Which is a shame.



Yes, any light can fail (or batteries run out), even SureFire. That is why I always carry a backup, in my case another SureFire, and not to forget the headlamp that is always on my head.
However, of the many lights I have and have had, SureFire has for me proven to be the most reliable (I have many SureFires, I have lost count, but it is more than 15).


----------



## N/Apower (Jan 11, 2013)

Absurd in every way, but I am sure it will be very well executed and if I needed this kind of output, I would drop the coin. You won't equal it in a serious light otherwise, although for a hobbyist, I don't think you need all of SF's engineering, but that's not to say you might not want it.


----------



## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 11, 2013)

baterija said:


> - I get why Surefire would do a proprietary battery pack. With what the light needs for power and US liability laws it makes sense to control what gets fed into it. I don't have to like it though. We'll see how they price spare packs. Proprietary anything makes me think high margin to keep up the revenue stream.


Ah, now it's starting to make sense. The word "proprietary" always seems to equal at least one extra zero on a price tag.


----------



## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 11, 2013)

Lurveleven said:


> Yes, any light can fail (or batteries run out), even SureFire.


I suppose it depends on how you use your lights. A professional who treats it like a tool is likely to see more failures than someone who keeps one in his briefcase for emergencies.


----------



## n2deep (Jan 11, 2013)

shane45_1911 said:


> I own Surefires. Lots of Surefires, by some people's standards.
> But I have to agree. This light is just not 10 or 20 bucks more than something similar. It is HUNDREDS of dollars more. If there truly are features and functions that justify the price, I am all ears.



MADE IN AMERICA!


----------



## marcl (Jan 11, 2013)

I am cabinet maker by trade and take a lot of pride in the tools that I buy, I am a great believer that good tools help to make a great craftsman. The last tool I bought was a Festool TS55 saw. It is quite simply magnificent in every way. But it is very expensive. The motor is hand wound in laboratory conditions and only eleven people have access. All components are made in Germany and so is the saw. The base of the saw is magnesium alloy and to top it all off it has special electronics to keep the blade moving at the same speed regardless of load. 

Now if Surefire made there own LEDs because they where so much better than CREE, made there own drivers for the same reason and the torch was made from exotic material, then I would look at it seriously. But it's not, it really is just an expensive torch. To make it worse it is nearly twice the price of my saw and that just doesn't make sense.


----------



## bose301s (Jan 11, 2013)

n2deep said:


> MADE IN AMERICA!


And why does that matter?


----------



## leon2245 (Jan 11, 2013)

Would it be enough to move on if we all just conceded that the dominator is way overpriced & nowhere near as good premium watches & saws, yet despite this some are _still _interested in it for no good reason? 

Are these terms of surrender acceptable? Or even then would we still need to derail the rest of the thread with value/price debates?


----------



## bose301s (Jan 11, 2013)

leon2245 said:


> Would it be enough to move on if we all just conceded that the dominator is way overpriced & nowhere near as good premium watches & saws, yet despite this some are _still _interested in it for no good reason?
> 
> Are these terms of surrender acceptable? Or even then would we still need to derail the rest of the thread with value/price debates?



CPF Rule 4 violation. Comment removed. Flaming, disrespectful. Trolling like comment.


----------



## AR_Shorty (Jan 11, 2013)

I don't care what others think...I want one!


----------



## GordoJones88 (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks for the Youtube vid.
It's not nearly as big as I thought.


----------



## argleargle (Jan 11, 2013)

Let's talk about the light and it's properties, *shall we?*

While there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth at "zomg typical surefire prices," one gigantic point was missed. It was mentioned that the upcoming SF Dominator light is 36v? Really? I can't find that number on any of the pre-release sites I've checked.

That's fascinating. Many new-model electrical vehicles are sporting 36v power subsystems. 36v auxiliary light to go with an electric hybrid? *Fascinating.* I guess the trolls don't actually care about light or battery technology. Why not 48v? Common for military vehicles, common among the navy, common for many sorts of large vehicle applications. 36v but not 48v. Strike anyone else as very peculiar?

Kind of neat for bleeding-edge technology no doubt backed up by a warranty that still holds if some meanie happens to shoot out your light with a rifle. I expect that the replacement budget is factored in for IED attacks, as well. I don't expect my Fenixes or Jetbeams to be covered by replacement warranty if *shot out of your hand or blown up by explosives.*

http://www.surefire.com/truestories...ire-weaponlights-survive-just-about-anything/

Debate? Let's talk about it. Hate Surefire? Great, but maybe this isn't your thread then, lads. Call me a SF shill? Good. Refer to my post where I call a certain piece of SF equipment "a girl's light." :laughing: No link, you can find it yourself.

In any case, I'd view this thing's intended use as a light for a squad auto patrol machine gun near some sort of patrol vehicle. Pocket light? No. Don't personally need one of these things. Would I take one for a free review to be published here? Absolutely. Want my mailing address? I'll post beam shots against a cliff face or something.

My .02c.


----------



## Craig K (Jan 11, 2013)

GordoJones88 said:


> Thanks for the Youtube vid.
> It's not nearly as big as I thought.



What is the flashlight in the background in this pic, it looks like the UB3T but with a thicker body?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 11, 2013)

I just have to wonder what 2000 lumens looks like. Might have to take baby steps seeing as I'm only up to about 300+. Perhaps some day I'll pony up the cash to see what Surefires offerings at 800 or 900 lumens are like. Am thinking that it's a very nicely built light but I'm always leary of "proprietary style power". Just seems like a flashback to the old Surefire bc90 battery sticks and such.


----------



## Illum (Jan 11, 2013)

Tiresius said:


> Anyone wondering about the fuel gauge? Is it a battery indicator or can it expel gas?
> 
> I like the idea of using a CST-90 emitter. I bet as always, the beam will be gorgeous like majority of the SF lights.



The fuel gauge could be as simple as a bicolored LED and a PIC, who knows. building a fuel gauge is not difficult, if the price really reflects sophistication, then they might come up with one that is grossly overengineered, included with enough bells and whistles to need its own manual. 



GordoJones88 said:


> This thread would be so much better with a pic!



I posted a product photo from optics planet on page 1, even took the time to rehost it to spare the lecture about hotlinking. somewhere along the way Norm had it deleted



Craig K said:


> What is the flashlight in the background in this pic, it looks like the UB3T but with a thicker body?



dunno, M4LT?


----------



## Tiresius (Jan 11, 2013)

Anyone noticed the MASSIVE fins on this bad boy? They're not short, stubby fins. This thing is huge and I expect the light to be pushed hard and they will do their job as well.

Hey guys, I wonder if SF will make a car charger port for their rechargeable pack--Assuming they did developed one. OR a built-in external port like how they did with their hellfighter.


----------



## Norm (Jan 11, 2013)

Illum said:


> I posted a product photo from optics planet on page 1, even took the time to rehost it to spare the lecture about hotlinking. somewhere along the way Norm had it deleted


Can you point me to the post, I don't see where any image has been deleted form page one, I apologise if I deleted an image you hosted, a quick PM would have cleared things up , none of us are perfect.


Norm


----------



## Mbehe87 (Jan 12, 2013)

Craig K said:


> What is the flashlight in the background in this pic, it looks like the UB3T but with a thicker body?



UBR Invictus
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?331063-SHOT-Show-2012-Surefire-New-Products


----------



## monkeyboy (Jan 12, 2013)

Craig K said:


> What is the flashlight in the background in this pic, it looks like the UB3T but with a thicker body?



It's the UBR invictus; the rechargeable version of the UB3T. It's in the 2011 and 2012 catalogs but hasn't been released yet.

EDIT: nevermind, I didn't read the above post.


----------



## Craig K (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks guys for the answers, I wonder when the UBR invictus will be released?


----------



## Illum (Jan 13, 2013)

Norm said:


> Can you point me to the post, I don't see where any image has been deleted form page one, I apologise if I deleted an image you hosted, a quick PM would have cleared things up , none of us are perfect.
> 
> 
> Norm



its no longer there, which is fine. 
I merely copy and pasted the specs over from optics planet as the beginning of the thread there wasn't much to discuss about other than the name Dominator. _We are way past that now, no need to recover it_. It was post 5 or 6 right below scaru's off topic promotion of another light. if anyone needs the info, see http://www.opticsplanet.com/surefir...lumens-rechargeable-led-flashlight-black.html


----------



## argleargle (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks for the link, Illum. I kept finding stuff on the old Dominator name.

Looks like a sweet light! Mode selector ring, huh? I wouldn't have guessed that.

Still not up on SF's website, as far as I can tell. Kind of strange. Did I miss it?

http://www.surefire.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=dominator
No results at time of posting.


----------



## Illum (Jan 13, 2013)

argleargle said:


> Still not up on SF's website, as far as I can tell. Kind of strange. Did I miss it?



No you didn't 
Most companies feature their new products at SHOT long before it ends up on their website, I'm guessing this is one way to keep it low profile with the exception to the targeted audience. On the side note though, "Dominator" is the nickname... its more accurate to search using the part number. In this case UDR-A-BK


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Jan 14, 2013)

Will the SF Dominator be superseded by the coming 4000 lumen Annihilator? Or will the Annihilator be a $2K upgrade light?


----------



## Z-Tab (Jan 14, 2013)

I'm guessing the Annihilator will compete with the Hellfighter. If it's a single-die LED, then it will be something pretty special.


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 15, 2013)

Last ShotShow the Annihilator was a weapon light for big machine guns (I guess the weapon light version of the Dominator), now it appears it has become a handheld flashlight with 4000 lm and a TIR lens. From the picture found here it also looks like the head has become smaller compared to the Dominator? It will be really interesting to see how much throw it has.


----------



## Pöbel (Jan 15, 2013)

Tiresius said:


> Is it safe to run so many primaries on a light that will draw a lot out of them?



Surefire has made lights requiring that many primary cells before. On the new Dominiator this will surely be only a fall-back solution but it can be done. Considering the price of 12 primaries a rechagable setup is much more useful anyways.


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 15, 2013)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Will the SF Dominator be superseded by the coming 4000 lumen Annihilator?



I don't think it will replace the Dominator, because they are both featured in this video.


----------



## ABTOMAT (Jan 26, 2013)

If this does come out I wonder if the price'll drop by half after six months like the M3LT did. If that's the case I might sell my Hellfighter and buy one.


----------



## Kaban (Jan 26, 2013)

Lurveleven said:


> Please let not this turn into another SureFire price discussion thread.


What would you like to discuss than? I agree with Divine. That price is crazy.


----------



## Keithnielsen (Apr 7, 2013)

Lurveleven said:


> It have looked like one of the SureFire catalog lights never going to happen, but it is now available for pre order, so it is finally becoming available!
> Anyone else planing to get this?



This has been coming since Shotshow 2012. Not holding my breath for it to actually see the light of day. B&H Photo and Optics Planet have had it for pre order for over a year.


----------



## Patriot (Apr 8, 2013)

I'm I understanding correctly that the throw is supposed to reach 165K lux?


----------



## Bajades (Jun 26, 2013)

Does anybody know with any certainty the LED that is used in the Dominator?


----------



## Treeguy (Jun 26, 2013)

I have no justifiable reason to own such a light, nor do I have the money to afford such a light, but I admit to a certain desire to own the light because, quite simply, it's pretty ******* cool.

Thus the alpha and omega of my argument.


----------



## Tyler A (Jun 26, 2013)

Something else I want...great; I'm more interested in the annihlator though


----------



## Rich2250 (Jun 27, 2013)

I used to be a complete surefire snob, but I'm beginning to expand my horizons a bit, but surefire completely changed the illumination industry, and I still love the quality and precision. They are soooo damn pretty.


----------



## PocketRocket (Jun 27, 2013)

*Poof*


----------



## tab665 (Jun 27, 2013)

how much longer before the dominator can be called vaporware?


----------



## PocketRocket (Jun 27, 2013)

*Poof*


----------



## pjandyho (Jun 27, 2013)

PocketRocket said:


> I already consider a product vaporware once it has failed to make an appearance after two years of it first being introduced.
> 
> If it's finally released then good. If not then meh.


You mean 2 years have passed since the announcement of the Dominator by SF? OMG, how time flies...


----------



## PocketRocket (Jun 27, 2013)

*Poof*


----------



## pjandyho (Jun 27, 2013)

I have seen that video. My goodness! It's been two years! When is the dominator ever coming out?


----------



## Phry (Jun 28, 2013)

So, Surefire announce a 2000 lumen light. Made from aluminium and with several modes and re-charging. Much like many others now long established.

Difference being, they want $2k for their version. Lupine charge only $780 for their 2600 lumen light, and they are tiny and lightweight, not this heavy monster SF are talking about.

Two years later, they have STILL *NOT *RELEASED the light! 

Well done SF :shakehead


----------



## MDJAK (Jun 28, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> I think for a lot of people its like watches.
> 
> A Rolex might cost several thousand dollars, and yet the time it tells you might be the same as a $10 Timex....and people will say "Hey, I get get a watch that tells me the same time as that $2000 watch for only $10, WHY in the world would I spend $2k?



My Rolex costs 10k. (7k when I bought it) so it's gone up in price and I can sell it at a profit. But that's not why I bought it. I like it, plain and simple. And I totally get your point and agree with you. Heck, it doesn't even keep accurate time. It runs 2 mins slow every month or so. But I use my phone when I want accuracy anyway. 

To each his own. If you got the scarole, more power to ya. Buy what you want. Life is not a rehearsal.


----------



## PocketRocket (Jun 28, 2013)

*Poof*


----------



## pjandyho (Jun 28, 2013)

Looking at how much they are pricing the UB3T, I would not be surprised at all if the Dominator's pricing is north of $1000. Damn pricey for me but I really wanted one. Have been eyeing and waiting for it since I first got to know about it.


----------



## PocketRocket (Jun 28, 2013)

*Poof*


----------



## pjandyho (Jun 28, 2013)

I bought mine at the launch price and a month later the price went down.


----------



## fordmechanic (Jun 29, 2013)

The dominator and what looks to be an even brighter (4000 lumen)annihilator is in the 2013 catolog


----------



## pjandyho (Jun 29, 2013)

fordmechanic said:


> The dominator and what looks to be an even brighter (4000 lumen)annihilator is in the 2013 catolog


I am not sure if the Annihilator would ever make it to production. According to Surefire in the SHOT Show videos, they claimed that the Annihilator is using a proprietary LED and many at the SHOT Show are complaining that it is very greenish. I believe that if the Annihilator is not garnering enough positive responses during the SHOT Show it would probably never make it into production. Of course, anything can happen.


----------



## The_Driver (Jun 29, 2013)

pjandyho said:


> I am not sure if the Annihilator would ever make it to production. According to Surefire in the SHOT Show videos, they claimed that the Annihilator is using a proprietary LED and many at the SHOT Show are complaining that it is very greenish. I believe that if the Annihilator is not garnering enough positive responses during the SHOT Show it would probably never make it into production. Of course, anything can happen.



It has a 1000 Lumen white led and 4000 Lumens from green leds. Of course it looks greenish when you turn those on


----------



## fordmechanic (Jun 29, 2013)

It never made sence to me why they put it in their "new" catolog if their not even sure that its gonna be released. They did that to me a few years ago with the replacement for the U2.


----------



## Phry (Jun 29, 2013)

fordmechanic said:


> It never made sence to me why they put it in their "new" catolog if their not even sure that its gonna be released. They did that to me a few years ago with the replacement for the U2.



Makes them seem like they are innovative when they are in fact mostly talk.


----------



## Patriot (Jun 29, 2013)

pjandyho said:


> I am not sure if the Annihilator would ever make it to production. According to Surefire in the SHOT Show videos, they claimed that the Annihilator is using a proprietary LED and many at the SHOT Show are complaining that it is very greenish. I believe that if the Annihilator is not garnering enough positive responses during the SHOT Show it would probably never make it into production. Of course, anything can happen.



It's a 1000L white but they're "marketing" the proprietary emitter as a tactical deterrent of some type, for military and LE. The green will be useless for most people's purposes but apparently it's the only color this particular LED is capable of producing at this time. There's a long discussion over in the spotlight section about the Annihilator, posted by a exuberant member who thought it would be the end all flashlight and death of HID and short-arc.


----------



## pjandyho (Jun 29, 2013)

The_Driver said:


> It has a 1000 Lumen white led and 4000 Lumens from green leds. Of course it looks greenish when you turn those on





Patriot said:


> It's a 1000L white but they're "marketing" the proprietary emitter as a tactical deterrent of some type, for military and LE. The green will be useless for most people's purposes but apparently it's the only color this particular LED is capable of producing at this time. There's a long discussion over in the spotlight section about the Annihilator, posted by a exuberant member who thought it would be the end all flashlight and death of HID and short-arc.


This is something new to me. I have no idea that the Annihilator actually uses two different LEDs. Honestly, when I heard that it is greenish I immediately lost interest in it. Maybe it might make it to production, maybe it might not, but I am quite sure it is going to be a long while before we see or hear anything from SF. Maybe by then manufacturing standards would have improved so much that the greenish LED would have been corrected for white? Who knows?


----------



## PocketRocket (Jun 29, 2013)

*Poof*


----------



## johnny0000 (Jun 30, 2013)

Every time I go to Shot Show, I make certain to hit up the Surefire booth. I'm always amazed, but once the feeling sets in that I'll never see any of there new products or it'll take a year or so to hit shelves...then I feel sad.


----------



## PocketRocket (Jun 30, 2013)

*Poof*


----------



## Dave D (Sep 18, 2013)

The SureFire UDR Dominator is currently listed as 9-11 day ETA on the LA Police Gear site.

Listed for $959 with a MSRP of $1370

*The SureFire UDR Dominator is SureFire's most powerful LED rechargeable flashlight. It features an 11-setting selector ring. It's output is an incredible 2,000 lumens (40,000 candela).

Features:

**Rechargeable: Integrated lithium-ion battery does not require removal or cradle for recharging.*
*Dual Fuel: Powered by lithium ion, 123A lithium, or other battery types.*
*Fuel Gauge: Indicates battery charge level.*
*Selector Ring: Selects output levels, strobe, and other modes.*
*Strobe: Strobing light for tactical applications.*


----------



## Robin24k (Sep 18, 2013)

It's been delayed (once again)...


----------



## tab665 (Sep 19, 2013)

I thought the candela rating was upped to something like 130,000 candela. its mind boggling how long this light has been in the works. was it the 2011 shot show?


----------



## alpg88 (Sep 19, 2013)

idk, but it does not look appealing to me, i'm sure it is great light, but SF used to have someting "wow" about the way their lights looked, they lost it. cover SF logo and you would not know it is SF.


----------



## BLUE LED (Sep 20, 2013)

I had a chance to play around with one at the DSEi 2013 at the Excel along with the P3X Fury and one other.


----------



## bill_n_opus (Sep 20, 2013)

Let's be honest ... SureFire gets a hallpass because of their history in the flashlight industry as well as their reputation in producing well-made, well-liked lights for the consumer market. 

But their maddening habit of presenting "products" that quickly become vaporware, advertising products that never show up ... this kind of behaviour wouldn't be tolerated if it was any other manufacturer. 

And slowly the tolerance to this has moved on to become apathy ... 

If SF is doing well servicing the military market then that's great for them ... I hope for their sakes that they don't or will ever not need the consumer industry and their opinions to keep them successful or in business. That's the risk they are taking.


----------



## AIRASSAULT18B (Sep 21, 2013)

bill_n_opus said:


> Let's be honest ... SureFire gets a hallpass because of their history in the flashlight industry as well as their reputation in producing well-made, well-liked lights for the consumer market.
> 
> But their maddening habit of presenting "products" that quickly become vaporware, advertising products that never show up ... this kind of behaviour wouldn't be tolerated if it was any other manufacturer. And slowly the tolerance to this has moved on to become apathy ... If SF is doing well servicing the military market then that's great for them ... I hope for their sakes that they don't or will ever not need the consumer industry and their opinions to keep them successful or in business. That's the risk they are taking.



Surefire is like FN making weapons for the military & Glock for the police. All high quality products. The factories pump them out 24/7 & still cant keep up with demand. The civilian market for these companies are almost a after thought. All the companies mentioned have warranty service that their competitors can only promise. I have personally had equipment destroyed during operations and Surefire replaced without a shred of product to examine. Try that with any other manufacture. Also so you don't worry about their consumer business suffering there have been millions of various servicemen using their products in life or death situations for decades. With that just like the M16 family of firearms that are now the number one weapon family AR-M4 style semi auto being sold to veterans & non vets as well. Surefire has the same following. Veterans tend to buy what is familiar & proven. Non vets tend to follow the trend of buying the same type of gear being used by our police & military. So the civilian market for said companies to include Surefire now & in the future is only limited to what they want to sell in this market. I myself own everything from a Armytec to a Zebralight but, when you really need a light for something more then looking at white walls I would only count on any of my Surefire lights.


----------



## RedLED (Sep 21, 2013)

QUOTE=GordoJones88;4111841]This thread would be so much better with pic.







[/QUOTE]

You are right we need a photo! That is wicked! I am in for one...you have to feel sorry for my poor neighbors. They will hate this one. Then, love it when I catch another prowler and kick him out the gate of our private country club!


Surefire Rules!


Best,


NR


----------



## BLUE LED (Oct 1, 2013)

Just a quick pic


----------



## Meatybacchus478 (Oct 12, 2013)

Any updates?

Why does the annihilator appear so much smaller than the dominator, but offer 2x the output?


----------



## KROMATICS (Nov 24, 2013)

So whatever happened to the Dominator? Is it another in a long list of flashlights we'll never see?


----------



## Phry (Nov 24, 2013)

KROMATICS said:


> So whatever happened to the Dominator? Is it another in a long list of flashlights we'll never see?



Does such a list of Surefire lights exist?

Announced but never released...


----------



## photonmaster (Nov 24, 2013)

Ten months since the "pre - order" was announced.


----------



## 880arm (Nov 24, 2013)

I was really getting my hopes up about the Dominator a couple of months ago but nothing has come of it yet. I'm still optimistic that they have at least one more product to release this year. Otherwise, we will have to wait until Shot Show to see them again.


----------



## Robin24k (Nov 24, 2013)

Last I heard, the 11/15 date was pushed out.


----------



## The_Driver (Nov 25, 2013)

BLUE LED said:


> Just a quick pic



Thats's actually much smaller than I thought it would be. Very compact :thumbsup:


----------



## vegassig (Dec 22, 2013)

speedsix said:


> Search and rescue with a $1000 flashlight? If I was found be a rescuer holding a $1000 flashlight, I would ask why they didn't just hire a few more searchers instead of spending $1000 on a flashlight.



Equipment for a lot of those jobs come from individual officer/volunteer/rescue staff funds, some depts provide an allowance or a cheap light, if you want better, you buy it yourself. That's how my department is.
All that aside, it will probably be a great light, I've never been dissatisfied with any light I've had from them. I will probably buy one when they drop the price by 60% a year after it comes out.


----------



## The_Driver (Jan 30, 2014)

I have a few pictures of the light and a beamshot to the ceiling at the current shotshow on a Russian flashlight website. Surefire has upped the lumens to 2400. They also included a picture of the front of the light with the led. :thumbsup:

Here a picture of the light on a stand. 
Here a picture of the side. Some nice cooling fins. They are not completely round. 
Here a picture of the control ring and the buttons.

Here the long awaited picture of the led in the deep smo reflector. I'm 100% certain it is a Luminus CBT-90 led. This led is basically a factory de-domed SST-90 on a copper pcb (without the isolation layer - just like sinkpads and noctingon pcbs). The pcb seems to have been screwed on to the heatsink of the light (very good). The 2400 lumens seem to be led lumens since this is the max rated output of the led at 15A (!!!). 

Here a picture of the beam on the ceiling. It's has a very tight hotspot and seem to have a color temperature of 6500K.


----------



## pjandyho (Jan 30, 2014)

Are my eyes playing tricks or is there a donut hole in the beam?


----------



## The_Driver (Jan 30, 2014)

pjandyho said:


> Are my eyes playing tricks or is there a donut hole in the beam?



I agree with you. This is a common problem with the SBT-90 and CBT-90. It's the leds fault though. The parts of the DIE that are closer to the bond wires are more intense. Member sma has posted some pictures showing this here in the German tlf forum. Since you can't see them without being registered I have uploaded them to my photobucket account here. As you can see the round SBT-70 has a much more uniform intensity distribution.


----------



## tab665 (Jan 30, 2014)

I don't think surefire would just state the LED lumens. maybe they're driving it a little harder?


----------



## The_Driver (Jan 30, 2014)

tab665 said:


> I don't think surefire would just state the LED lumens. maybe they're driving it a little harder?



Yes that would be possible, but I doubt it. 99% of the flashlight manufacturers stay within the LEDs specs (Thrunite is one of the few ones that don't always do this - TN-32). Maybe there is a higher bin that Luminus hasn't added into the Datasheet....


----------



## tonkem (Jun 22, 2014)

Just got an email from Bhphoto that says the Dominator is discontinued before it was released, disappointing.


----------



## monkeyboy (Jun 22, 2014)

tonkem said:


> Just got an email from Bhphoto that says the Dominator is discontinued before it was released, disappointing.



That is disappointing, but I wouldn't discount it coming out all together based on what BHPhoto says. Maybe it will resurface in a few years time when better LED technology is available.


----------



## pjandyho (Jun 23, 2014)

tonkem said:


> Just got an email from Bhphoto that says the Dominator is discontinued before it was released, disappointing.


What's new with Surefire? I have learnt to ignore any new release until it is official.


----------



## tab665 (Jun 24, 2014)

very disappointing news, literally been following and waiting for years for this one. wondering how much money goes down the drain for surefire with that amount of R&D behind this light.


----------



## Phry (Jun 25, 2014)

tab665 said:


> very disappointing news, literally been following and waiting for years for this one. wondering how much money goes down the drain for surefire with that amount of R&D behind this light.



How much R&D actually gets done and how much is just assumed?

They may have spent next to nothing on development for all we know.

_*Surefire's main products appear to be hype, bluff, broken promises and hot air!*_


----------



## Robin24k (Jun 26, 2014)

Checked with SureFire...UDR isn't discontinued. Not sure where that news came from...


----------



## Phry (Jun 26, 2014)

Robin24k said:


> Checked with SureFire...UDR isn't discontinued. Not sure where that news came from...


Something cannot be continued or discontinued if it never started [emoji23]


----------



## Robin24k (Jun 26, 2014)

Phry said:


> Something cannot be continued or discontinued if it never started [emoji23]


Sure. What I meant was that it's still scheduled for release.


----------



## Phry (Jun 26, 2014)

Robin24k said:


> Sure. What I meant was that it's still scheduled for release.


Maybe next year then, who knows. Maybe two more. Maybe by the time they release it, it won't be so desirable...


----------



## tonkem (Jun 26, 2014)

Sorry, I was basing the information on an email I got from BhPhoto stating it had been discontinued. Probably just took from their website at discontinued, as it took so long to release 



Robin24k said:


> Checked with SureFire...UDR isn't discontinued. Not sure where that news came from...


----------



## tab665 (Jul 1, 2014)

Robin24k said:


> Checked with SureFire...UDR isn't discontinued. Not sure where that news came from...



good news then. were you able to get any kind of ballpark ETA from them?


----------



## Robin24k (Jul 1, 2014)

tab665 said:


> good news then. were you able to get any kind of ballpark ETA from them?


It's always one month out...latest I got was August.


----------



## LiteTheWay (Jul 3, 2014)

Which August?





Robin24k said:


> It's always one month out...latest I got was August.


----------

