# Built: The Everyman's Triple XM-L 3-mode NiMH Optic



## Techjunkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I haven't built or modded a light in a good long while... until today. I had parts laying around for three new builds since ~January, but couldn't muster up the energy to start any of them. Now that I've sold a few from my collection, and I'm trying to sell a few more (trying to finance a new bicycle purchase), I figured it was now or never to start these builds. This one I'll probably keep for myself - for a little while anyway.

Specs:

3 XM-L cool white stars
Cu Perfect Sink-D machined flat.
Triple Optic from DX sku 1916
Blue Mag 2D host
3 AccuPower Evolution LSD NiMH C Cells
3 2.8A AMC7135 regulators, each regulating 1 LED
Primary regulator on which the other two are slaved, is set for Lo-Mid-Hi












What's amazing about this "everyman" flashlight (uses NiMH cells, no need for fancy Li cells), is that on three cells that were in my drawer since January and haven't been charged since then, it's every bit as bright as the three mode triple SST-50 light I built that requires 3xAW IMR26500 cells to run.

Beamshots...

What follows is an indoor shootout of my collection of multi-super LED lights - aka, The Floody Buddies.

All shots taken at ISO200 F3.5 1/10sec WB=5200K

The Floody Buddies (angle)





From left to right:
1) The Lil Giant - Mag 1C, 3 Neutral White MC-E, MOP Triflector, 1 AW IMR26500, DD
2) The LED USL - Mag 3D, 5 NW MC-E, SMO Pentaflector, 16 Duraloops, 0.45 Ohm resistor
3) Mag 2D, Triple 4500K SST-50, SMO Triflector, 3 AW IMR26500, 4.2A 3-mode linear regulator
4) Mag 2D, Triple CW XM-L, DX Tri-optic 1916, 3 NiMH LSD C cells, 3-mode 2.8A linear regulator 3-stack

The Floody Buddies (faces)






Control, lights off:





Control, lights on:





1) 3x NW MC-E, MOP Triflector





2) 5x NW MCE, SMO Pentaflector





3) 3x 4500K SST-50, SMO Triflector





4) 3x CW XM-L, DX Tri-optic


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## EASTWOOD (Jul 15, 2011)

Very nice Techjunkie! This build looks very clean. Definitely want to see the beamshots. How is runtime in regards to heat buildup? Is the heatsink contained entirely in the head or does it protrude into the body as well?


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## simplec6 (Jul 15, 2011)

Awesome build!!!! 

Close to what I am working on currently! What are the advantages to running those 3 drivers vs. just 1 like most do? Also, any details on this part (Cu Perfect Sink-D machined flat.)? What the source was or where ya got it?


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## LilKevin715 (Jul 15, 2011)

Nice simple build Techjunkie! Are you getting ~8.4A at the tailcap? I'm suprised those Accupower C LSD cells can handle that kind of load without sagging too much.


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## Dark Laser (Jul 16, 2011)

Very nice, especially the heatsink :thumbsup:

Are you heatsinking the drivers? I read in your Yard Sweeper-Thread (again, very nice :naughty that the drivers need to do quite some work when powering the XM-Ls because its Vf is so low.
I'd very much like to do something similar to a 2C (though with just 2 XM-L, but it will be a flooder as well), but I am still thinking about how to power the beast. 3 4/5-Sub-Cs + LEDs in parallel + resistor(s) (low mode achieved by using 2 alkies ) or like you, 2 linear drivers, what do you think? The former sounds a bit dangerous to me, considering the strength of these cells. I don't want to torture the LEDs ...
I'm still curious about the heatsink, too ... copper would be nice, but aluminium should do the trick as well for just 2 LEDs, right?. However, this not much of a problem.


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## richpalm (Jul 16, 2011)

I want to do one of these!! No machine shop of course... would you sell a heatsink and optic alone, along with a wiring diagram? Did you use Shiningbeam drivers?

Edit: I PM'ed you.

Rich


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## Techjunkie (Jul 17, 2011)

EASTWOOD said:


> Very nice Techjunkie! This build looks very clean. Definitely want to see the beamshots. How is runtime in regards to heat buildup? Is the heatsink contained entirely in the head or does it protrude into the body as well?



The PES (perfect emitter sink) threads directly into the head and the lip mates with the ledge inside the head so heat transfer is very good and it has excellent mass and thermals. At full power (2.8A per LED), it heats up quickly in the hand. I haven't done a full runtime test yet to see if it can go a full discharge cycle on high, but I expect it to perform better than the triple SST light I referenced above, which has hotter 5A emitters and less sophisticated heatsinking. The bottom of the PES protrudes into the neck, but doesn't make contact except where the bottom of the PES lip bottoms out on very top of the tube when the head is screwed down fully. 

I owe beamshots, I know. I'm actually very pleased with this optic. I tried the same triple SMO tri-flector on the XM-L as I had used with the triple SST-50, but I felt that the output of the optic was superior. That was fortunate, because the metal triflector was too tall for the bezel to screw down when paired with the PES D-Sink. I would have had to trim the ledge down inside the head to allow the PES to screw down even further and that would be difficult and messy. I'll use the tri-flector I modded to fit the mag head in another build some day.



simplec6 said:


> Awesome build!!!!
> 
> Close to what I am working on currently! What are the advantages to running those 3 drivers vs. just 1 like most do? Also, any details on this part (Cu Perfect Sink-D machined flat.)? What the source was or where ya got it?



The three separate regulators are required because the LEDs are not in series. Basically, there's three sets of regulator+LED in parallel here. I provided some links to the PES D-Sink info at the very bottom of this post. See below.



LilKevin715 said:


> Nice simple build Techjunkie! Are you getting ~8.4A at the tailcap? I'm suprised those Accupower C LSD cells can handle that kind of load without sagging too much.



Those are the best NiMH cells I've ever used, and the XM-L has very low Vf. I only measured 7.5A at the tail, but the cells were rested 7 months before I tried 'em. Also, experience with the SST-90 testing showed me that the tailcap provides less resistance and higher current than the conduit I use in my clamp tests at the tail. Unfortunately, I didn't clamp test at the LED lead wires this time - I was in too much of a rush to finish assembly.



Dark Laser said:


> Very nice, especially the heatsink :thumbsup:
> 
> Are you heatsinking the drivers? I read in your Yard Sweeper-Thread (again, very nice :naughty that the drivers need to do quite some work when powering the XM-Ls because its Vf is so low.
> I'd very much like to do something similar to a 2C (though with just 2 XM-L, but it will be a flooder as well), but I am still thinking about how to power the beast. 3 4/5-Sub-Cs + LEDs in parallel + resistor(s) (low mode achieved by using 2 alkies ) or like you, 2 linear drivers, what do you think? The former sounds a bit dangerous to me, considering the strength of these cells. I don't want to torture the LEDs ...
> I'm still curious about the heatsink, too ... copper would be nice, but aluminium should do the trick as well for just 2 LEDs, right?. However, this not much of a problem.



The regulators are bonded together with high temp "PC Farenheight" epoxy putty and heavy copper wire was used on the outside edges of them to aid in thermal transfer, but the truth is that they do not need to be cooled nearly as much as with lithium solutions because there is very little voltage overhead to burn off. Remember, unlike the serial build with three 4.2v cells in series and three 3.2 LEDs in series (huge potential difference), here we have three LEDs in parallel and three 1.2v cells in series. The 3.6v pack requires very little work of the linear regulators. Basically, they're only there so they can be PWM'd for multi modes. I could have as easily used a single PWM only circuit, but it would have to be one that could handle 8.4A. This was easier and cheaper and more proven.



richpalm said:


> I want to do one of these!! No machine shop of course... would you sell a heatsink and optic alone, along with a wiring diagram? Did you use Shiningbeam drivers?
> 
> Edit: I PM'ed you.
> 
> Rich



The driver is exactly like the Shiningbeam driver and the one that Download sells, but I got 'em from KD for ~$5 each. The optic is from DX sku 1916. The machined PES D-sink, I bought from this thread here, but the Aluminum version is still available from the Sandwich Shoppe, here. (They also sell a C sized version.) I don't have a machine shop either. The only grinding involved was a little beveling of the bottom edge of the optic to allow its standoffs to contact the top of the PES with the PES screwed down all the way. It was floating by a fraction of a mm before that and I didn't want to sacrifice heatsinking at all by even slightly unscrewing the PES.

As far as wiring goes, you simply remove all the non AMC7135 components from two of the regulators, and strap the VDD from the first to the other two with very thin wire. Then you wire a ground to all three regulator grounds, and a positive from after the switch to the one positive input on the in-tact regulator that you didn't remove any components from. All three LEDs get a positive in, and each has it's negative paired with the LED- of its own dedicated regulator. In that way, each regulator regulates a single LED, but all three are pulsed at the same time for Hi-med-low by the PWM circuit on the first regulator. (Solder the third star to ground to set the mode selection to H-M-L.) I don't have a diagram, sorry.


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## richpalm (Jul 17, 2011)

You got an extra optic you'd wanna sell?

Thanks for the info-I had to get whatever the SS had left of heatsinks, and it ain't much. So I hope mine'll work.

So with the SB driver I: Extract all components on two boards except the 7135's and parallel wire battery + and ground? Where do I pick up the VDD?

Rich


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## Techjunkie (Jul 17, 2011)

richpalm said:


> You got an extra optic you'd wanna sell?
> 
> Thanks for the info-I had to get whatever the SS had left of heatsinks, and it ain't much. So I hope mine'll work.
> 
> ...



No, you just parallel the grounds. Only the first board with all the components gets a positive input. You then solder wires from the VDD signal input leg of one of the 7135 chips on that board to the same leg of one of the 7135 chips on the other two boards (you can use the solder pad exposed by removing the IC as your contact point on the secondary boards). When you're looking at the 7135, and the three legs are pointing up, it's the leg on the left.


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## Techjunkie (Jul 17, 2011)

Beamshots are up, added to post #1


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## richpalm (Jul 17, 2011)

OK, cool-last thing-LED+ and - gets wired independently from _each_ board, correct? Also, where can I find the Accupower cells?

Thanks for your patience! Providentially I just found my 3D host that I thought was lost for good-so I guess it's meant to be!

Rich


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## Techjunkie (Jul 17, 2011)

richpalm said:


> OK, cool-last thing-LED+ and - gets wired independently from _each_ board, correct? Also, where can I find the Accupower cells?
> 
> Thanks for your patience! Providentially I just found my 3D host that I thought was lost for good-so I guess it's meant to be!
> 
> Rich



LED- gets wired from board 1 to LED1, from board 2 to LED2 and from board 3 to LED3. All three LED+ go directly to + from mag switch.


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## richpalm (Jul 29, 2011)

OK, someone make a drawing before I go sledge this goddamned thing... because this ain't working. Already burned up one driver. I need this laid out in front of me-I don't learn by words-gotta see it in pictures. It's 0330 and I'm totally pissed. No wonder I've stayed away from complicated setups. Never again.

I'm thinking I'm gonna toss the whole thing, I can't get how the positives are hooked up, and I'm totally confused trying to put it together from all these posts. One says each LED gets a +, another says they all go to battery +. So I'm supposed to have four wires, one from each emitter and one from the first driver +?

Or should I just say eff it and use one driver stacked with multiple 7135's, and have done? Better that than the trash.

Rich


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## EASTWOOD (Jul 29, 2011)

Rich,
We've all been at the breaking point with a project at one time or another. Just walk away from it for now till someone can step in and lend a hand. Eventually you'll get it finished and it will be great. Hang in there.


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## Techjunkie (Jul 29, 2011)

richpalm said:


> OK, someone make a drawing before I go sledge this goddamned thing... because this ain't working. Already burned up one driver. I need this laid out in front of me-I don't learn by words-gotta see it in pictures. It's 0330 and I'm totally pissed. No wonder I've stayed away from complicated setups. Never again.
> 
> I'm thinking I'm gonna toss the whole thing, I can't get how the positives are hooked up, and I'm totally confused trying to put it together from all these posts. One says each LED gets a +, another says they all go to battery +. So I'm supposed to have four wires, one from each emitter and one from the first driver +?
> 
> ...



A picture's worth a thousand words:


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## richpalm (Jul 29, 2011)

Beautiful! Thank you very much! I'm gonna go back to it later on when I'm in a good mood.

Very much appreciated!

Rich


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## richpalm (Jul 29, 2011)

Well, I rewired everything exactly like the drawing. I'm using the Tenergy NIMH D cells from my TK-70, 3 of them. I checked everything, and I don't get any 7 amps. Hardly 3A. So this strapping/slaving thing _does not work_. Pending an answer, I'm gonna tear the whole damn thing apart and piggyback one driver and have it done, I've really had it.

So much for my sigline...

Rich


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## Epsilon (Jul 30, 2011)

It appears that's not your fault though . You are only powering the main board (2.8A) if you have connected it like the schematic above.

Thats because I think the schematic is incomplete . The schematic shows two wires connected to the slave drivers. The PWM wire from the master board and the current wire to the led. What is feeding the slave boards with power? They still need to be connected to a power source as the master driver board.

If I'm wrong I'll edit this post, because it will only confuse people :x.


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## richpalm (Jul 30, 2011)

Well, I said the heck with it and paralleled the drivers the way I know how, along with the LED's, same way I wire my XP-G triples. Everything worked but I still only got 3A. So I tried 4 cells. With NIMH that still falls within spec for 7135's, and now I get insane brightness... draws ~1A on low, 2.8 on mid, and a good 7A on high with no angry blue or tint shift. So I guess it works! <g> A hack job, but it works. Wanted to use 3 cells though-4 is getting heavy for night walks.

Thanks everyone!

Rich


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## EASTWOOD (Jul 30, 2011)

Congratulations Rich, now post some photos in a new thread with beamshots!


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## Techjunkie (Jul 31, 2011)

Epsilon said:


> It appears that's not your fault though . You are only powering the main board (2.8A) if you have connected it like the schematic above.
> 
> Thats because I think the schematic is incomplete . The schematic shows two wires connected to the slave drivers. The PWM wire from the master board and the current wire to the led. What is feeding the slave boards with power? They still need to be connected to a power source as the master driver board.
> 
> If I'm wrong I'll edit this post, because it will only confuse people :x.



Epsilon, the schematic isn't incomplete in the way you described. That's how to wire this setup, but with one small but important correction, I forgot to draw the ground wires on the last two, the way I had described in post #7 above, "heavy copper wire was used on the outside edges of them"

Contrary to what you suggested, if you were to power the 2nd and 3rd directly, the VDD would have no mode effect because the 7135s would always be at full blast. Think of the VDD as the power source for all the 7135 chips. When it's on, they're on. When it's off, they're off. The controller chip powers that VDD lead on and off rapidly to create the PWM modes. Full blast is constant on and the lower power modes are just very rapid on-off cycles.

I'll edit the photo to include the ground wires to avoid further confusion.

Sorry Rich!


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## simplec6 (Jul 31, 2011)

whered ya get the xml stars and are they u2 or t6? What did you use to glue the stars to the heatsink?


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## richpalm (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm convinced the setup works... my mistake was not trying a fourth cell right from the get-go. 3 cells (3.6V) just didn't have the power. I'm not gonna change anything back now-it's already overabused from rewiring-but definitely gonna save this info, and thanks!

UPdate-Changed my mind and reworked the hack job wiring... I was afraid of problems. I put it all back the way TJ's drawing is and it works fine-on four cells. Still experimenting with reflectors... anyone got the Ledil Booms for XML's.

A twist-I added two 7135's to each board, so the LED's will each see ~3.5A. If someone could help me out with reflectors I'd really be grateful!

The thing turns the entire hillside and every house into daylight! 

Rich


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## simplec6 (Aug 3, 2011)

What size XML stars are those and where did you source them? Are they t6 or u2? Is the only thing holding them on the two screws each? How do you screw into copper (just drill a pilot hole?). 

Thanks!


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## Techjunkie (Aug 3, 2011)

simplec6 said:


> What size XML stars are those and where did you source them? Are they t6 or u2? Is the only thing holding them on the two screws each? How do you screw into copper (just drill a pilot hole?).
> 
> Thanks!


 They're 20mm T6 stars, sourced from KD. I use a #3 48tpi tap bit to thread holes pre-drilled with a bit sized right for that tap (I think it's #47, but double-check my memory against any bit-tap size table). The screws are, of course, also #3 48tpi. Between the stars and the heatsink, I apply Arctic Silver 5 thermal goo.


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## Epsilon (Aug 4, 2011)

Techjunkie said:


> Epsilon, the schematic isn't incomplete in the way you described. That's how to wire this setup, but with one small but important correction, I forgot to draw the ground wires on the last two, the way I had described in post #7 above, "heavy copper wire was used on the outside edges of them"


Thanks for the updated schematic , my bad indeed.


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## Quest4fire (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks for sharing an imaginative build Techjunkie! I don't have any nimh c cells laying around, but i've got plenty of eneloops. How do you think 9 eneloops set up in a pack 9S3P would work out in a 3D mag? Sag issues?


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## Techjunkie (Aug 17, 2011)

Quest4fire said:


> Thanks for sharing an imaginative build Techjunkie! I don't have any nimh c cells laying around, but i've got plenty of eneloops. How do you think 9 eneloops set up in a pack 9S3P would work out in a 3D mag? Sag issues?


 
3S3P would work but you'd need a very good carrier designed for (very) high amperage. Also, you'd only have 6AH in a light that could fit 10AH, but either way that's more than my 4.5AH config here.


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## Quest4fire (Aug 17, 2011)

> 3S3P would work but you'd need a very good carrier designed for (very) high amperage


Oops, I think that's what I should have said, if you mean three separate stacks of three eneloops in series for 3.6V nominal and 6000 mAh. I guess three D nimh would be a better option for higher mAh but I do already have the eneloops sitting idle, waiting on a project. I do like the idea of reducing heat in the driver circuit boards by keeping vbatt in that 3.6V nominal range.


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## Techjunkie (Aug 18, 2011)

Quest4fire said:


> Oops, I think that's what I should have said, if you mean three separate stacks of three eneloops in series for 3.6V nominal and 6000 mAh. I guess three D nimh would be a better option for higher mAh but I do already have the eneloops sitting idle, waiting on a project. I do like the idea of reducing heat in the driver circuit boards by keeping vbatt in that 3.6V nominal range.


 
Then the XML is the perfect emitter for the project, with it's very low Vf. AAs will sag under load more than larger C or D cells, so you'll want to start with low Vf LEDs when using only 3 in series for each LED. You'll also want to eliminate resistance as much as possible, but you're already off to a good start there by using a Maglite as the host. The Mag switch and host are very low resistance to begin with compared to the clickies & contacts found in cheaper hosts. Of course, you could also go single XM-L which would further reduce sag from draw and increase runtime, but who am I to give that advice when my Big Red runs an SST-90 from AA cells?


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## Quest4fire (Aug 18, 2011)

> Eight AA Duraloops providing 4.8V in that torch proved to be too much power to direct drive the SST-90 with, driving it to more than 14 Amps.


*14 AMPS!!!*  You Sir are a bona fide abuser of eneloops. Shame!:whoopin:The SST-90 and a rebel reflector are a nice combination. Good Work!


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## richpalm (Aug 18, 2011)

Techjunkie said:


> ....but who am I to give that advice when my Big Red runs an SST-90 from AA cells?



You inspired me yet again-just got back from Walmart with a red 2D host! 

I wanna do another one of the Everyman's with a 3C host, 4 sub-C's, same driver setup but with neutrals. Be great for night walking, neutral is much easier on the eyes. Broke now though...

Rich


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## Techjunkie (Aug 18, 2011)

richpalm said:


> You inspired me yet again-just got back from Walmart with a red 2D host!
> 
> I wanna do another one of the Everyman's with a 3C host, 4 sub-C's, same driver setup but with neutrals. Be great for night walking, neutral is much easier on the eyes. Broke now though...
> 
> Rich



You should browse my "my lights" link in my signature sometime. There's 70+ lights in the LED section that have been modified by me in some way, all on a pretty conservative budget, and most of the good ones have links to their build threads.


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## Mattaus (Aug 20, 2011)

Hey Techjunkie, sorry for stalking you through your threads 'n all but I have another question...what heatsinks do you use for these triple mods? Are they custom jobs or can they be purchased somewhere? I did read through your "My Lights" post but either suck at reading or it's not specifically dealt with. I've been using the H22A heatsinks for my single magmods but obviously those sit flush with the end of the Mag tube and thus not high enough to make contact with the back of the 3-Led reflectors you use for these sorts of mods.

Any information would, again, be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.


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## Techjunkie (Aug 20, 2011)

Mattaus said:


> Hey Techjunkie, sorry for stalking you through your threads 'n all but I have another question...what heatsinks do you use for these triple mods? Are they custom jobs or can they be purchased somewhere? I did read through your "My Lights" post but either suck at reading or it's not specifically dealt with. I've been using the H22A heatsinks for my single magmods but obviously those sit flush with the end of the Mag tube and thus not high enough to make contact with the back of the 3-Led reflectors you use for these sorts of mods.
> 
> Any information would, again, be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Cheers.



For this three 20mm star build, I used a machined flat PES-D heatsink. You can still get one from the Sandwich Shoppe, here. (They also sell a C sized version.) If you're using three separate reflectors instead of a tri-optic, then it's easier to center the stars if you get a Perfect TriStar sink, like this and this.


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## richpalm (Aug 20, 2011)

Techjunkie said:


> if you get a Perfect TriStar sink, like this and this.



For the D size, 50 bucks for one... no way, much as I'd love it for my next build. I used this one. AA'd a flat aluminum disc on to it and went from there... not ideal but it worked.

Rich


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## Techjunkie (Aug 20, 2011)

richpalm said:


> For the D size, 50 bucks for one... no way, much as I'd love it for my next build. I used this one. AA'd a flat aluminum disc on to it and went from there... not ideal but it worked.
> 
> Rich


 
Wow, I never even looked at the price for the D-size one. I just assumed it cost the same as the C-sized tri-sink, ~$20. 2x the cost is surprising. It must be a supply/demand thing. Also, I notice the machined flat one with no lip that I first linked to is gone from the page. They still have the flat ones with the lips though.


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## Mattaus (Aug 20, 2011)

Yeah I stumbled across the D-size heat sinks when trying to figure out what you used and was surprised you'd use something like that in a build that was supposed to be "cheap" lol. At least I know what to look for now. Thanks.


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## richpalm (Aug 20, 2011)

I emailed the SS... wonder if it's a typo.


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## vestureofblood (Aug 25, 2012)

How is the beam in this light? Are there artifacts, rings? On a scale of 1-10 how smooth is it?


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## Techjunkie (Aug 25, 2012)

IIRC, there weren't any rings or artifacts, so... 10?. There were two components to the beam - hotspot and spill, much like a reflector. Other optics project single component beams, like the DX quad for example, which projects a large rounded square. Still others work like aspherics and project the die image to the finest detail. I think that tri-optic was one of my favorites.


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## freeloader700 (Oct 19, 2012)

This is awesome thanks


Sent from my finger tips using Tapatalk


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