# Why is a A2 so popular?



## jon1996 (Oct 14, 2006)

I do not understand a $150.00 light, that you have to twist the head on with both hands to turn it on, Led's are dim, and a Incan that only burns for 45 mins? so why does this light have such a following? I do not understand
jon:huh2:


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## MarNav1 (Oct 14, 2006)

Buy one and you'll understand!


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## Robban (Oct 14, 2006)

Get yer reading glasses on
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1277685&mode=linear#post1277685


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## elgarak (Oct 14, 2006)

You do not have to twist the head. Only the tailcap. Very easy to do with one hand. To be frank, the 2-stage SF twisty (A2, L2, L1) is one of the best and most useful switch designs out there.


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## beezaur (Oct 14, 2006)

Why so popular?

The quality of light from the incan beam is extremely high. Incans give broad spectrum light, which is much better for color rendition than current LEDs. The A2 incan is regulated with a soft start, meaning that high quality beam is the same for the duration of battery life, and that the bulb lasts a long, long time. The incan beam reaches far enough for the vast majority of normal flashlight uses. The A2 incan beam is about quality of light, not quantity.

The dim LEDs are just right for when you don't need a lot of light and want to conserve battery power.

You basically get two lights in one: a long-lasting, low intensity light, and an extremely high quality bright beam.

Scott


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## Wetterman (Oct 14, 2006)

When I need two lights I take two.


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## Loomy (Oct 14, 2006)

It is versatile. It is compact for such powerful versatility. It isn't perfect, but it is good


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## Wetterman (Oct 14, 2006)

The price tag suggests that it should be perfect.


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 14, 2006)

Must be perfect then.

Bill


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## freerdr17 (Oct 14, 2006)

I did'nt know why it was so popular either, Until I got one a few days ago. This thing is awesome!


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## Kiessling (Oct 14, 2006)

Several reasons ...

- it has a bright regulated (!) incan beam of high beam quality with good reach
- it is very small for the power
- it has a good low flood secondary beam that will also work should the lamp burn out or the batteries near their end of life
- if offers flood in low level and a far reaching beam on high ... few lights can do that
- quality is top notch in ever aspect
- user interface is KISS and powerful
- it uses lithium batteries with all their advantages

Being a LED guy it took me long to get one. I never regretted it, I am just sad that I didn't get it earlier.

bernie


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## dyyys1 (Oct 14, 2006)

Wetterman said:


> When I need two lights I take two.



What if when you took two lights you were really taking the equivalent of three? Also, one of the advantages of a dual stage light is the ability to switch between the stages instantaneously. However, the A2 is so much more than just a dual stage light.


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## lightplay22 (Oct 14, 2006)

Both of mine are perfect!!... for sooo many different situations.


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## Illum (Oct 14, 2006)

The last light you'll ever need to buy
Only light in the market with regulated xenon output, meaning no matter how low the battery is, unless its dead your getting full brightness, not the ugly dim orange sickly color
Surefire patented soft start technology for xenon lamps, prevents power spikes during activation and as a result lengthens the xenon bulb life.
Perfect focus, no cheerio [donut hole] or warped dark rings, as all surefires are
Lifetime Warranty, you break it, they'll fix it
Type III Hard anodizing: unless you drop it on concrete, you dont get scraped paint, dings, etc. If you leave your light in your pocket, it wont get scratched by keys.
Different selection of LED color for many possible applications.
A fool-proof tailcap, NO THIS IS NOT A LIGHT WHERE YOU TWIST THE HEAD, THE ENTIRE LIGHT IS OPERATED BY ONE HAND: depress lightly for LED, hard for xenon, you dont have to click once click again, click a third time for different options.
Lock out tailcap [LOTC compatible]: enables you to lock the switch out to prevent accidental activation if you are storing the light
Snug clip, whatever the light should cling on, you betcha it will stay put when you go back to get it.
Lithium batteries: able to perform over wide range of temperatures.
Included high quality lanyard and batteries.
ultra small footprint: less than 14 cm [5.5 inch to be exact] and outperforms a 2D krypton light.
'NOUGH SAID! GIT YOURS TODAY!


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## xdanx (Oct 15, 2006)

Wetterman said:


> The price tag suggests that it should be perfect.


 
You have to pay more than $190 for a perfect light with *NO* downsides or weak spots. I have only two, both were made by the same person.





The A2 is a fantastic light. I just think people should do a little research before they attack a light.

js's thread and Quickbeam's Site are great resources.


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## marxs (Oct 15, 2006)

the a2 will not be the best of anything mind you, its not the best at low level lighting (i think its fine) nor will it have the farthest throw, but it handles almost all your lighting needs. i put stress on the word "need"

xdanx: as for the perfect light (my edc), hopefully itll be here in a day or two, then ill be joining the club 

mark


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## RedLED (Oct 15, 2006)

Hard to beat. Perfect light to leave in your car/truck.


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## TORCH_BOY (Oct 15, 2006)

It has the best of both worlds


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## Delta447 (Oct 15, 2006)

Robban said:


> Get yer reading glasses on
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1277685&mode=linear#post1277685


 
After reading that review, I think I am starting to get it. After recently purchasing the L1, I decided that two stage lighting is the way to go for me. Now I have a two stage tail cap on the way for my L4/E2L. I've been looking hard at the L2 and U2, but have hesitated due to the size of these lights. I would have completely dismissed the A2 (mainly due to the run time and lumen output #'s of the incan), but have been considering it since it has received rave reviews from so many highly experienced CPF'ers. Before the above thread, I didn't realize that you have high output throw and low output flood with this light, which is a step beyond multi-level output from the same light. So I'm almost convinced that this might be the next light for me. I have some questions for the A2 owners:

1. Do you find yourself using the LED for most of your tasks, thus preserving the incan when the application calls for its use? If so, does the LED cover a broad spectrum of applications? Also, any idea of how many hours of LED time you get before the incan is no longer supported by the batteries? I'm guessing somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 or 12 hours of LED only use.

2. What do you do with your batteries once they can no longer support the incan? It seems a shame to toss batteries that have 20% life left. Yet it seems equally a shame to carry around a two purpose light that is limited to one purpose due to battery condition. I'm guessing that these batteries are then transferred to LED lights or that you are using rechargables. 

Thanks.


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## win67 (Oct 15, 2006)

Delta447 said:


> I'm guessing that these batteries are then transferred to LED lights or that you are using rechargables. /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Is it possible to use rechargeables in the a2?
> ...


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## Max Brightness (Oct 15, 2006)

win67 said:


> Delta447 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm guessing that these batteries are then transferred to LED lights or that you are using rechargables. /QUOTE]
> ...


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## cheapo (Oct 15, 2006)

yeah, i dont understand why its so popular either... never did.. 

-david


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 15, 2006)

David, have you every owned an A2?

Bill


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## cheapo (Oct 15, 2006)

Bullzeyebill said:


> David, have you every owned an A2?
> 
> Bill



never did... and never will now that i have a u2  

-David


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## meat (Oct 15, 2006)

As others have said, the regulated incandesant bulb and the option to just use LEDs are the main selling points. 

Some people don't appreciate incandesant bulbs and prefer the brighter LED lights like the L2,L4 and U2. I like both lights and appreciate the A2. The A2's LEDs, while not as bright as the L2's on low, do fine for me in most situations.

Different strokes for different strokes, but there really isn't another light like the A2.


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## adirondackdestroyer (Oct 15, 2006)

I guess I just don't see what others see in this light. The price tag is WAY too high for what it gives in performance. I do understand that it covers two lights in one, but for under $50 you could buy a Wolf Eyes 6M with the 3.7v lamp that has 3 times the throw of the A2 and almost twice the overall output. You could then buy some cheapie keylights ($5 for 10) and put a nice Nichia CS U bin in them. The keylight will have the same amount of output as the LED's in the A2.


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## marxs (Oct 15, 2006)

like what has been said time and again, the A2 is the jack-of-all-trades and the master of none. it doesnt have the best throw, nor the best low light (others far cheaper can do the same). its meant to be a very "useful" tool all in one package, low lights plus decent high output throw. it was never meant to be a winner in any category. i think thats the thing that people mistake the A2 for. dont compare the A2 to champions of throw or flood. instead, try getting your hands on one and use it a couple of times. its meant to be useful (thats how you appreciate it over time), not really a WOW kinda light.

if you like having two seperate lights because of price, cool...cause id do the same in a heartbeat :laughing: but i prefer carrying just one light.

mark


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## xdanx (Oct 15, 2006)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> I guess I just don't see what others see in this light. The price tag is WAY too high for what it gives in performance. I do understand that it covers two lights in one, but for under $50 you could buy a Wolf Eyes 6M with the 3.7v lamp that has 3 times the throw of the A2 and almost twice the overall output. You could then buy some cheapie keylights ($5 for 10) and put a nice Nichia CS U bin in them. The keylight will have the same amount of output as the LED's in the A2.


 
I won't even touch this one.


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## Scott112 (Oct 16, 2006)

I also had the same questions and doubts about the A2 until I finally gave in and bought one. Now I understand. The A2 is not perfect and it's not for everyone, but it is my favorite light by far.


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## ZippyDan (Oct 16, 2006)

xdanx said:


> You have to pay more than $190 for a perfect light with *NO* downsides or weak spots. I have only two, both were made by the same person.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i need to know more about which lights are perfect for over 190. not being sarcastic cuz i want one!

~Zippy!


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## Gone Jeepin (Oct 16, 2006)

I have been an A2 user for years now and would tell anyone who scoffs at the price or "strange batteries" to go through a blackout with one before rendering final judgement. I was caught in the Blackout of '02 and can testify to the usefulness and utility of this light. Yes I had plenty of lights and lots of batteries but the A2 was the most used light. Blue leds and white incan was just fine for my varied uses. It is the main light of my EDC bag to this very day. The others are situational and not as useful overall as the A2.


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## stockae92 (Oct 16, 2006)

i don't think there's a perfect light everyone anyone.

but for me, having lower power LED and regulated incan are big pluses

when my A2 is done with the battery, i will throw them into my X5T for many more hours to go


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## bwaites (Oct 16, 2006)

Had the U2, sorry, no comparison. 

The U2 is a great light, but the A2 eats it up when it comes to EDC.

The U2 is big!

Lot's of lights that I use more than a U2, and no, I don't find more than 2 or 3 levels useful. My U2 was either on low or high, seldom in between. That effectively makes it a 2 level light!

Bill


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## Illum (Oct 16, 2006)

xdanx said:


> You have to pay more than $190 for a perfect light with *NO* downsides or weak spots. I have only two, both were made by the same person.



_McLeish_'s creations?:naughty:


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## FlashInThePan (Oct 16, 2006)

I've found that a number of people - myself included - are initially very disappointed with their A2. You rip open the package, fire it up, and think "hey, I have better incan lights and better LEDs than this."

But the crazy thing is that you start reaching for the A2 more and more, and it starts to grow on you. The LEDs are designed to provide a useful flood, which is what I usually need on low. And the incan is there with a tight focus when I need to "reach out" and illuminate something farther away. And there's nothing like an incan for color rendition - LEDs just make everything look flat.

The switching is perfect - you have both types of light immediately available with the press of a button. Yes you could carry two lights, but why? With the A2 you have two different lights available at your fingertips. The A2's small, convenient, and bullet-proof. I find that it's simply the light that I reach for more than any other. It's got everything that I need for 95% of the times that I need a flashlight.

I almost returned my A2 a week after I bought it because I didn't see the need for it. Now I can't imagine ever giving it up. It's the light that I turn to before everything else, and the one light I'd take with me in an emergency.

So I guess my bottom line answer is that it's just useful - exactly like a good flashlight should be. It may take you a month to appreciate the A2's true utility, but I'm guessing that if you spend a few weeks with the A2, you'll be a convert.

- FITP


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## xdanx (Oct 16, 2006)

Illum_the_nation said:


> _McLeish_'s creations?:naughty:


 
Yep


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## marxs (Oct 16, 2006)

well said FITP.

mark


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## redskins38 (Oct 16, 2006)

When i get the money that will be my next buy. I cant wait to get that baby. How much harder are black A2s to get a hold of?


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## carrot (Oct 16, 2006)

Black A2's pop up on BST every so often and you can expect to pay at least $150 for one, new condition or slightly used. They used to sell for $115 or so from Supremeco and are not sold anywhere else.


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## batman (Oct 17, 2006)

I vote the A2 for flashlight of the century.


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## dchao (Oct 17, 2006)

Sorry, I will not buy lights that do not accept either 18mm or 17mm rechargeable cells (or at least protected RCR123's). To prevent users from using rechargeable cells and profit from huge battery sales is not a good business ethics. A2 may be the light of the century, but it doesn't give you guilt free luminance.


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## js (Oct 17, 2006)

Someone asked about runtime with the LED's. IIRC, it's like 25+ hours of runtime.

As for what to do with the batteries when they no longer support the incan--but still have 25 percent energy left, well, I just toss them in the trash, but yes, you certainly could put them in another light to drain down the last quarter of their energy.

I EDC my A2, and I prefer to always have AT LEAST 6 or 7 hours of LED light when I start my day. So when the batteries no longer support the incan, I replace them. It's a perfect arrangement for me, because it's a built in warning system for when I need to replace the batteries. When I EDC'ed an E2e, I was always replacing the batteries because I thought they were running low, but then going "Hmm. I guess they weren't low after all" and putting the old ones back in. It was annoying.

With the A2, even if you have only a minute left on the incan, you still have a lot of runtime left on the LED's. And even if you drop the light and break the incan lamp, you still have the LED's. All in one light. Which I prefer.

The L2 is a lovely light as well. I really like my L2. But it's just a touch too long, and it doesn't have two kinds of beams. Both high and low are more or less flood beams. And, the low is too bright for my taste. It's a beautiful and pleasing beam, though!

The U2 is way too big for pocket carry, which is why I don't own one. It's a rockin light, though. Just not even a candidate for EDC for me. YMMV.

The L4 with a two stage switch would be pretty cool as an EDC. But, again, only one type of beam with two levels. Which, you know, could be fine for many people. For me, I really appreciate having both. And I appreciate having an incan. I'm just a hotwire kind of guy, for better or worse.

As for the price tag of the A2, and related complaints, and how it should be perfect at that price and all of that. That's actually one of the MAIN reasons I wrote my A2 review thread. I wanted to show--in detail--why I thought the A2 was actually a bargain for the price, and why the A2 was so great. Why those who kept harping on the poor quality of light from the low beam, or the short runtime or the fact that a SL TT 2L was 1/5th the price of an A2, and on and on and on --why those people were missing the point of the A2.

I mean, great, just super. If a person can be happy with a SL TT 2L, then more freakin power to him. I'm happy for him. I really am. But for me, the 2L, while being a good value for the money, is totally out of the question for an EDC light. It's way, way, way too big. So I don't really care if it costs $40 or a bit less. It doesn't meet my criteria, so it's cost is irrelevant.

My object was never to try to say that the A2 is the best light ever for everyone and that everyone MUST go out and buy one right away or show their stupidity. No. Rather the opposite. I wanted to show that those of us who DID love the A2 and DID own one, had very good reasons for chosing this wonderful light; that we were NOT stupid. I just got so so sick of all the A2 bashing going on. (And there was a LOT of it. A whole lot of it.)

That's not happening so much any more, and I'm pleased with that turn of events. The A2 is not for everyone, but it's certainly a great light for a significant number of us here on CPF. And we have good reasons for our appreciation of this amazing little light that is almost in a class of its own. Like it or not, own it or not, the A2 deserves our respect.


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## js (Oct 17, 2006)

dchao said:


> Sorry, I will not buy lights that do not accept either 18mm or 17mm rechargeable cells (or at least protected RCR123's). To prevent users from using rechargeable cells and profit from huge battery sales is not good business attitude. A2 may be the light of the century, but it doesn't give you guilt free luminance.



This is fair and I understand where you're coming from.

BUT,

1. The A2 actually will run off 2 R123's.

and

2. I EDC my A2 *every single day* and over the course of a year I go through less than 4 boxes of 123's (12 per box). Probably about 40 cells get me through a year. And I probably replace my lamp assembly one every year and a half to two years.

So how much is that per month? About $8.60 per month. And I use my A2 at will, whenever I feel like it. For fun or curiosity or whatever. High beam, low beam. Whatever.

$8 or $9 a month? Bahhh. I call that guilt free lumens in my book.

and

3. Li-Mn-O2 chemistry batteries actually have a higher energy density at most draw rates than Li-ion chemistry batteries. AND, I can draw them down to absolutely nothing. No worries about over-discharge if I let my wife use my A2 or something.

and

4. I can stash sets of spare 123's in likely places, such as the glove box of my car and my back pack. I keep them in waterproof orange containers (meant for matches).

So, I don't know. Maybe still an issue for some people, but I've never had the urge to make my A2 rechargeable. Although, as I said, it can be done.


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## strat1080 (Oct 17, 2006)

I think the A2 Aviator is something that has to be used in order to be fully understood. It is simply a very versatile and simple to operate light. Sure the U2 has more features, but its also larger and costs a ton. The U2 is something that requires serious use in order to make the most out of. The A2 essentially has the high power and second to lowest output of the U2 covered. Most people don't find a need for more lighting options out of a single light. If I was an engineer or a mechanic working at night and had various ambient light levels, the U2 would be an excellent tool. Otherwise I would spend more time toying around with it than actually putting serious use too it. 


The main things that the A2 has going for it are its convenient size and wonderfully user friendly function. There aren't a lot of things that can go wrong with it. The U2 on the other hand is larger and has more that can go wrong. Like I said, if I was simply a mechanic, electrician, or engineer the U2 would be a great tool. On the other hand if my life was on the line and I needed a light for serious tasks the A2 would get my vote. The reason being that its more simple and incand. work better for serious lighting tasks outdoors. If something went hay-wire with the U2 it might be difficult to fix in the field, where the A2 would probably be fixed by simply replacing a LA or toying with the switch. The A2 is an awesome light that does a couple of things reasonably well. It offers usable close range lighting as well as a good long range wall of light. It stays at full power until regulation falls so you don't have that sick orange beam like most other incand. It is simply a very well designed light. I think js's post/review about the A2 sums why it is such an awesome light. Simply looking at the color rendition between the A2 and other LED lights compared to natural sunlight shows why the A2 would be better than something like a U2 for serious lighting tasks outdoors. Anyone who has questions about the A2 should read that post.


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## cheapo (Oct 18, 2006)

;;;


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## prof (Oct 18, 2006)

cheapo said:


> i notice that many say that its regulation is a positive feature, but if you think about other lights like the l2, l4, and l5 they are regulated too, and they have more output, and they are more efficient for less money.
> 
> -david



I believe they're referring to the fact that the A2's INCANDASCENT light is regulated. To my knowledge it's the only regulated incandascent you can currently buy off the shelf...


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## Illum (Oct 18, 2006)

prof said:


> I believe they're referring to the fact that the A2's INCANDASCENT light is regulated. To my knowledge it's the only regulated incandascent you can currently buy off the shelf...



Im pretty convinced of that fact, though I give the benefit of a doubt that there are other regulated xenon lights out there we dont know about.


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## greenLED (Oct 18, 2006)

prof said:


> To my knowledge it's the only regulated incandascent you can currently buy off the shelf...


Black Diamond Vectra IQ headlamp also has a regulated incandescent lamp in it. Any light that uses one of Willie Hunt's converters will be regulated (and cavers use these a whole lot, we just don't hear about those too often).

Cheapo, the U2's been one of my favorite lights, but I find myself liking the A2 more and more.


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## pizzaman (Oct 18, 2006)

My Inova X5T and ARC AAA-P get the most use of all my flashlights. That said, the A2 is nearly ideal for one application. As a "city walkabout" flashlight. 

When I am in Seattle at night there are times that I may have to navigate a dark side street or cross a dark parking lot. The LED option gives me enough light to see where I am going without attracting a lot of unwanted attention (I strive for urban stealth). I twist the rear cap for LED "on" and away I go. If I hear a suspicious noise or have need for throw or increased lumens, a push of my thumb "instantly" lights up the night with the incan bulb. If all is well, I immediately release my thumb and go back to LEDs. The ability to quickly switch between two extreme modes is the secret to the A2 in the city.

All this capability in a flashlight that will slide back in my pocket when I get where I am going. For you two flashlight guys, you either have to fumble in your pockets/holster for light #2 (too slow) or be a two fisted flashlight user (ties up both hands and is mucho geeky). Neither option appeals to me.

I will be doing some travel in the near future and I feel the A2's "two tiered trick" will be even more useful in strange and unknown city environments.

When the A2 batteries get tired, it just means feeding time for my Inova X5.

Cheers, TR


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 18, 2006)

I too sort of stuck my A2 away for awhile when I first got it, my KL5 and L6, and VIP's giving more service. After awhile I started using the A2 outside at night, and what a difference. I was seeing more detail at distance with the A2 than the L6 or KL5, or VIP. Objects sort of jumped out at me. Now I do have brighter incans, the Tigerlight with 375 LA, for one, but the A2 is smaller and convenient, and talk about a wall of light. The overall beam, spill and all is huge.

Bill


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## Illum (Oct 18, 2006)

Bullzeyebill said:


> I too sort of stuck my A2 away for awhile when I first got it, my KL5 and L6, and VIP's giving more service. After awhile I started using the A2 outside at night, and what a difference. I was seeing more detail at distance with the A2 than the L6 or KL5, or VIP. Objects sort of jumped out at me. Now I do have brighter incans, the Tigerlight with 375 LA, for one, but the A2 is smaller and convenient, and talk about a wall of light. The overall beam, spill and all is huge.
> 
> Bill



the A2s xenon seems to fill both spill and throw in practical applications, which i find somewhat unusual. im talking about long range flood, literally "a wall of light" not "a bright dot in the distance"


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## JasonC8301 (Oct 18, 2006)

greenLED said:


> ...the U2's been one of my favorite lights, but I find myself liking the A2 more and more.



Just wait until you get your U2 back.

I like the idea of the A2. Its a piece of art work, but I always carry a fullsize (ie Tigerlight FBOP) in my back pack and a HDS U60. CR2 Ion rests comfortably on my keychain. I found the A2 just not for me, not right now, maybe sometime down the line.

Jason


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## meat (Oct 18, 2006)

> i notice that many say that its regulation is a positive feature, but if you think about other lights like the l2, l4, and l5 they are regulated too, and they have more output, and they are more efficient for less money.



David, You keep comparing LED light to incandescent or however you spell it. I know you prefer your LED lights, as most people do, but some people prefer incandesescent to LED for the better color rendition.

I am not saying the A2 is the best light ever, but it fills a niche, just as your U2 does. They are just different niches.


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## cheapo (Oct 18, 2006)

;;;


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## Art Vandelay (Oct 18, 2006)

It's too bad you can't rent one.


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## js (Oct 19, 2006)

cheapo,

Let's make a deal. You stop knocking the A2 until you have actually owned one for a month or so. OK? Is that a deal?

Because nothing gets under my skin faster than statements about efficiency and cost of A2 vs. LED lights *when the poster doesn't even own the A2.*

In my A2 thread, the chapter heading "The SureFire A2 - More than a collection of numbers" is *especially for you*. I kid you not. YOU inspired that.

Perhaps you can take a clue from that. I mean, for a couple very significant categories of flashlight use, the A2 will *kick **** against the L2 or L4. No contest. No question. Foggy night in the woods? Give me the A2 over the L2 anyday.

You like LED's. That's great. I get it, I really do. And that's fine. But there ARE others out there. Strange, uncanny, preternaturally sighted, WIERDOS like me, who actually prefer the light from a good incandescent.

Bottom line: you simply *CAN NOT* take the lumens, divide by the cost, and end up with any meaningful measure of a light. It might be fun; it might be persuasive to the uninformed; it might even have a point to make; but ultimately, it is pretty STUPID to try to turn a flashlight into the ratio of lumens to dollars.

OK?

Do we have a deal?


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## GreySave (Oct 19, 2006)

<<so is the color really worth the extra cash and less efficiency?... >>


In my world it is. Whether I am looking for a lost dog or a lost person, accurate (or at least better) color rendition can make the difference between seeing the target or not, especially in areas with foilage. So the A2 works for me there. That being said, most of the time I carry a L4 and X5, one for power and one for longevity. Different lights for different needs and everyone has different needs. My A2 gets used the least. But when I need it, it is an excellent tool to have available.


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## leukos (Oct 19, 2006)

I think I'll back up js here and say that given cheapo's limited experience with the light this thread is inquiring about (as admitted in post #54), his posts in this thread could probably be considered "baiting".


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## Illum (Oct 19, 2006)

i sense some tension here

but cheapo is not directly jeering the light, hes just like some of us: want a light...can't afford a light. I dont think anyone can actually enjoy the proformance of a flashlight unless one can stop worrying about the effeciency and cost per watt stuff and use the light in everyday applications and see the results.


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## joema (Oct 19, 2006)

leukos said:


> ...cheapo's...posts in this thread could probably be considered "baiting".


That's out of line. Nothing cheapo said in this thread is baiting. The very purpose of this thread is to discuss why the A2 is popular, which includes pros/cons vs other designs. Nobody is required to own a flashlight to render an opinion on it.


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## Ledacholic Anonymous (Oct 19, 2006)

Damn all of you . I have the U2 in order and then this thread. I am tempted to cancel the U2 order as they are waiting for stock and get the A2 instead.

Just one question. What is the difference between the round and edgy versions?


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## leukos (Oct 19, 2006)

joema, PM sent.


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## marxs (Oct 19, 2006)

Led: like the CPF saying goes, why buy one when you can buy both!? theres really no difference between the old flat sided body and the new round body of the A2. everything else is the same except for the body shape and interior dimensions, i believe with the new one its a bit tighter.


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## 270winchester (Oct 19, 2006)

If I may voice my 2 pennies.

This topic comes up fairly frequently ever since the appearance of high powered LEDs a few years ago that has the "lumen rating" that exceeds comparable Incandescents. 

The A2, after all these years, still command a technological niche that no one else has dared to tread. THat alone testifies to how advanced it was, and still is.

Of course there will be the LED enthusiasts who love to boast their lights' numbers, but like cars, horsepower is meaning less until you see how it's applied to the road, lumen figures mean jack until you use it in the real world. 

Before anyone gets worked up, we have to keep in mind that this board is for all ages, and I mean all ages. Trying to argue with a 12-year old is like arguing with a an activists of sorts, you will never change their mind until they change their own mind. 

Answer to the original question: why is the A2 so popular?

my take on it: why not? it deserves it.

Simple as that.


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## cheapo (Oct 19, 2006)

;;;
-David


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## cheapo (Oct 19, 2006)

Art Vandelay said:


> It's too bad you can't rent one.



why dont you start a "renta-a2" store  that would be cool.... actually i think cabelas may actually have an a2 on display.... next time i'm close im gonna hav'ta take a look.

-David


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## Illum (Oct 19, 2006)

cheapo said:


> why dont you start a "renta-a2" store  that would be cool.... actually i think cabelas may actually have an a2 on display.... next time i'm close im gonna hav'ta take a look.
> 
> -David




rent a A2 would be way too big of a thing to do....can you imagine how many ppl would sign on for it? 

someone can always start a A2 passaround again...


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## bwaites (Oct 19, 2006)

Cheapo, the real problem is that no matter how many times you look at a light in the store, it's not the story. It's how that light works in the real world that matters, and in the real world: no lumen numbers, no LED vs Incan, etc, the A2 flat kicks the butt of most LED lights of comparable size. 

It is just too versatile for real comparisons. You can't compare the numbers, the outputs, whatever, it just WORKS!

Live with one for a month, then make your statements, you'll have a lot more credibility!

Bill


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## B737Driver (Oct 19, 2006)

True, but that may be a good place to start. Opinions from owners of a particular light obviously have more credibility than people who have never owned one of even touched one. I love my A2, especially when I use it outdoors on a misty night. Oh and that regulation and white beam......beautiful. I have no regrets buying the A2. I feel the A2 is a light that was way ahead of it's time when it first came out years ago, and that still holds true to this day.

My .02,

B737Driver


joema said:


> Nobody is required to own a flashlight to render an opinion on it.


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## cheapo (Oct 19, 2006)

opinions of a light from people who dont own are not credible, and opinions from people who do own one often are bias.

-David


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## bwaites (Oct 19, 2006)

Bias is a given, whether you own one or not.

I own far more LED's than I do Incans, and none of them can replace the A2.

I would love to have an LED that gave accurate color rendition outside at night, but none do.

I've literally gone through hundreds of lights in the last 3 years, hoping for one with the dependability of an LED to knock out the usefulness of my A2, no luck.

Until one does, nothing can replace the A2 as a "do it all" light.

Bill


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## B737Driver (Oct 19, 2006)

David, 

You are right in that people who own/owned a light are often biased, they either like it or dislike it, a conclusion based on an actual experience using a particular light. Not by using a calculator.

B737Driver


cheapo said:


> opinions of a light from people who dont own are not credible, and opinions from people who do own one often are bias.
> 
> -David


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## cy (Oct 19, 2006)

A2 really has little compitition, if any. VS LED lights have fierce compitition. one would think that incand's would have much more choices, but for a small regulated light. there's A2 and a few black diamond headlamps. 

I own two incandecent lights. Surefire M6 and A2. 
rest are all either LED and/or converted to LED. like M2 with 3watt dropin. so two incand VS a lot of LED lights(lost count)

so I'll join the liking A2 crowd...


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## greenLED (Oct 19, 2006)

cheapo said:


> opinions of a light from people who dont own are not credible, and opinions from people who do own one often are bias.


I disagree with your statement, cheapo. While first-hand knowledge can indeed create bias (negative or positive), that doesn't ensure that the knowledge of a non-owner is more or less valuable (or free of bias, for that matter) either. Although I take everybody's opinions with a grain of salt, I tend to trust an experienced voice more. Also, I keep in mind that what is a great light for *my* tastes and uses, may not fulfill somebody else's needs.

I jumped on U2 bandwagon bright and early, and preached its greatness left and right. Now that I have an A2, the U2 has lost its edge in my collection. Both have pros and cons, but I find the A2 is an excellent combination (and compromise) between incan and LED technologies.


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## carrot (Oct 19, 2006)

Some people just prefer incans, especially the color rendition afforded by a hot tungsten wire. I fall into that camp, but I also recognize the efficiency advantages of LEDs. The A2 Aviator, with its regulated incandescent beam and low output LEDs is naturally one of the best carry options for a person who loves the 'feel' of incandescent light, especially if variable output and reliability is a consideration.


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## EV_007 (Oct 19, 2006)

Why the A2? You get two lights in one. Not many lights can claim that distinction. 

Oh, and let’s not forget the bright regulated incandescent bulb. 

Did I also mention choice in LED colors?

It is pocketable and can be run in “guilt free” lumens mode too.

Maybe the next generation A2 will have three level luxeon LEDs installed?

That would really be an ultimate EDC light. 

A2 is the closest thing to a perfect EDC light thus far for me.


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## js (Oct 20, 2006)

cheapo said:


> take a look at the threads title... now what does that say??? "why is the a2 so popular"- so i ask questions like: is the color worth the money, and why buy it if you can have led... etc... then you guys back up the light, that way if someone (me for exampe) is looking at buying the light and has the same questions/concerns, they can just look here..... i think you are taking it a wee bit seriousely..... anyway..................... just clearing things up.
> 
> -David



David,

That's fair enough. Thanks for responding so civilly. I'm a bit oversensitized to this issue due to our previous arguments. If you don't remember this A2 thread go ahead and check it out again.

The issue with the comments you made in that thread, and also to some degree with your post in this thread to which I responded, is that they are *NOT* so much questions as accusations.

They are not "Wow, guys, looking at the numbers on the SureFire website it seems to me that the L2 is a better bang for the buck. What am I missing?" type posts. But rather they are STATEMENTS about the A2 vs. other lights, BASED ONLY ON THE NUMBERS (and cost).

There's nothing wrong with this, and I don't feel that it is baiting or anything, but when I see that sort of post, I do feel compelled to respond by pointing out that *A FLASHLIGHT IS MORE THAN A COLLECTION OF STATISTICS.*

If all you have to go on is stats, then it makes sense to spend time making comparisons based on them and choose from there, but, the WHOLE POINT about CPF is that you can get first-hand accounts from people who have actually OWNED the lights in question. That's worth more than a website full of stats, and is the reason why people who take the time to do a real review of a light are doing everyone a favor, because it is the next best thing to actually getting your hands on the light and experiencing it in person.

Anyway, yes, I do take these things too seriously and have a tendency to over-react. Sorry about that, but it comes with the territory, I think.


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## 270winchester (Oct 20, 2006)

THanks Jim for digging up the old thread. I suggest everybody read that thread and avoid a lot of redundant comments and un-necessary stress.


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## strat1080 (Oct 20, 2006)

The A2 really is the only light of its kind. Professionals who really need to look for things (sometimes dangerous things) in the dark prefer incand. lights. They simply look more natural. When you're trying to find something hidden behind bushes or trees you might miss it with an LED, but will stand right out with an incand. beam. With the A2 you truly get two lights in one. With multi power LEDs you don't really get two lights in one rather you get one light with multi levels. 


It is my experience that with the multi levels, some of the levels are more useful than others depending on how the beam is tuned due to the fact that you only have one light source but are using the same reflector or optics. For example you can have a really nice high beam but when you turn it down, the hotspot starts getting smaller and smaller. You can look at the figures of the U2 on FLR and see this for yourself. When the U2 is putting out the same lumen level as the A2 LED mode it has twice the throw as the A2's LEDs. What does this tell you? Its putting out a very narrow beam and not a smooth flood like the A2 LEDs. With the A2 you really get two very useful lighting options and both of these work very well. It is the only light that is capable of putting out low level flood as well as a tactical incand. beam with a nice spot of light. The U2 even at $270 can't match this. Sure it has 6 output levels but that is all they are, output levels. You are simply dimming the beam and not actually changing the beam characteristics. As you dim the beam you are getting a smaller and smaller hotspot.


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## joema (Oct 20, 2006)

strat1080 said:


> multi power LEDs...when you turn it down, the hotspot starts getting smaller and smaller. You can look at the figures of the U2 on FLR and see this for yourself. When the U2 is putting out the same lumen level as the A2 LED mode it has twice the throw as the A2's LEDs. What does this tell you? Its putting out a very narrow beam and not a smooth flood like the A2 LEDs....The U2...As you dim the beam you are getting a smaller and smaller hotspot.


While I agree with several of your points, a few things need clarification. The U2 hotspot size does not get significantly smaller (less diameter) at lower output levels. That assumes general lighting or camera exposure conditions -- of course you can contrive a test where it might appear so. But in general the hotspot beam diameter doesn't change much at lower output levels. Anybody owning a U2 can point it at a wall, crank the output up and down and see that.

Re using FLR statistics alone (vs actual observation) to infer the U2 has a "very narrow beam", that's not generally so. The U2 hotspot spillbeam angle is about 6 degrees, which is pretty standard. The U2 reflector design diverts much of the total output to the spillbeam, so it has a pronounced flood characteristic, especially at closer distances. You also won't see that from looking at throw statistics, which take a single point measurement at the beam center.


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## strat1080 (Oct 20, 2006)

joema, I guess my point was that the A2 actually has two different characteristics of lighting. My point was that with something like a U2 all you are doing is dimming the same light source, while with the A2 you are actually using two different light sources. Every light I've ever had that uses the same reflector and light source creates a narrower beam when the lower output levels are used. Maybe the U2 is different, I guess I just can't see how it would be so. Using the same exact reflector and light source, the lower levels shouldn't be able to get as much reflection thus creating a smaller spot of light. For example the L1 Lumamax is often criticized as having too narrow of a beam on low. My point was referring to multi stage LED lights in general. If the U2 is different then I admit that I'm wrong on that one as I've never actually handled a U2.

If the hotspot stays the same size at different power levels with the U2, what happens to the spill beam? I guess my point is that with the U2 on low you probably either have a smaller hot spot or just a spot with no spill. I'm thinking that a low output flood is probably more useful than a narrow spot for close range applications.


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## joema (Oct 20, 2006)

strat1080 said:


> ...I've never actually handled a U2...If the hotspot stays the same size at different power levels with the U2, what happens to the spill beam?...I'm thinking that a low output flood is probably more useful than a narrow spot for close range applications.


You're right you generally want a floody beam at close distances, and that's more useful than turning down the output on a narrow beam light. In that sense the A2 provides two totally different beam designs, which fullfills that.

However the U2 isn't so different as you'd think. It has one of the brightest spillbeams of any light. The designer must allocate the available lumens between spillbeam and hotspot. On the U2 they put much of this in the spillbeam. 

This gives a hybrid flood/throw characteristic. At close range -- even at lower output levels -- it's very floody. At long range it still throws. All without a focusing head. The downside is it sacrifices ultimate throw, had more output been diverted to the hotspot.

E.g, on the lowest or next-to-lowest level, U2 is roughly as floody as my Arc AAA-P, at least at closer ranges. This is because of the very bright U2 spillbeam.

So in that one aspect, I don't see a big A2 advantage. There's no question the A2 is more convenient to carry, and the incandescent beam gives better target recognition in many outdoor environments. The A2 provides some of the key U2 capabilities in a smaller, less expensive package.

I wish Surefire would make an A2-size or E2E-size Lux III variable-output LED light. Like the Kroma but with a smaller head.


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## RobbW (Oct 20, 2006)

From the perspective of this 2-year A2 veterin, the A2 is popular because of the quality of the 2 light sources. Each is smooth with useful spill and renders colors very well given each light source. The LED is nice and smooth and floody for close up work, the incan has good throw, but also has gobs of nice, even spill. Each just plain works.


Getting one of these beams right is an engineering feat, but getting both right with different reflectors is unparalleled. The numbers don't mean much to me because of the quality of each light source. That I can use LED as a backup "moon mode" when the incan runs out is just icing.


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## leukos (Oct 20, 2006)

The A2 hasn't always been so popular, I think CPF public opinion has shifted probably only in the last year or so. When the A2 first debuted in 2003? CPF had a rather negative reaction towards it. Many of the same things repeated here by folks who form their opinions on its specs or sell it after owning it a week, can be read in the archives (here's one example thanks to cy: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2715). It is a light with subtle qualities that takes some of us a bit of time to appreciate. $150 is not a lot of money for a good light. Many unenlightened CPFers will waste that much over a few months' time of buying every new variety of Fenix that comes out. I for one recommend the A2 because I know it to be a great light for my uses, but also because I would like to see more of its kind from SF or other manufacturers. I hope its popularity encourages more lights like it in the future.


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## stockae92 (Oct 20, 2006)

i didn't really liked the A2 in the first place, short run time and low Lumen (on paper)

but then, you learn about the flat regulated incan discharge curve, soft start, etc. and then you learn about the discharge curve of a P60 ...

then it all make sense, next would be to get your credit card out, and then click buy now ...


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## 270winchester (Oct 20, 2006)

leukos said:


> $150 is not a lot of money for a good light. Many unenlightened CPFers will waste that much over a few months' time of buying every new variety of Fenix that comes out.




That is the best observation I have heard in a while.:goodjob:


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## JNewell (Oct 20, 2006)

270winchester said:


> THanks Jim for digging up the old thread. I suggest everybody read that thread and avoid a lot of redundant comments and un-necessary stress.


 
OK, I went back and read the whole thread, all 211 posts. I was surprised at how many posts one of the users had deleted.


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## trailblazer (Oct 21, 2006)

After reading all the A2 hype I went out, bought one, and compared it to my 3wk old U2. I'm sorry to disagree with the masses but my U2 kicked the A2's butt in throw, sidespill, color rendition, and that awfull yellow beam looked sickly when compared to my white U2. I will say I liked the low although bluish tinted led beam pattern on the A2 over that of my U2 on low. Needless to say the A2 is headed back to the store as a $200 dissapointment. I love my U2's Black HAIII, the clickie, and multiple output levels. I also don't understand why it is said the U2 is to big to edc. I can carry my U2 in either front pocket and not even know it's there, it also carrys perfectly in the side pocket of carpenter pants and will enjoy an ocasional ride in it's new john willis holster when it arrives. The pocket clip on the U2 is superior as well. Long live the mighty U2!

I'm sorry but thats my opinion and i'm stickin to it!


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## B737Driver (Oct 21, 2006)

trailblazer,


I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. Enjoy your U2.

Regards,

B737Driver


trailblazer said:


> After reading all the A2 hype I went out, bought one, and compared it to my 3wk old U2. I'm sorry to disagree with the masses but my U2 kicked the A2's butt in throw, sidespill, color rendition, and that awfull yellow beam looked sickly when compared to my white U2. I will say I liked the low although bluish tinted led beam pattern on the A2 over that of my U2 on low. Needless to say the A2 is headed back to the store as a $200 dissapointment. I love my U2's Black HAIII, the clickie, and multiple output levels. I also don't understand why it is said the U2 is to big to edc. I can carry my U2 in either front pocket and not even know it's there, it also carrys perfectly in the side pocket of carpenter pants and will enjoy an ocasional ride in it's new john willis holster when it arrives. The pocket clip on the U2 is superior as well. Long live the mighty U2!
> 
> I'm sorry but thats my opinion and i'm stickin to it!


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## SilverFox (Oct 21, 2006)

Hello Trailblazer,

Interesting results...

Your experience goes against other test results. Doug (Quickbeam) has both lights about the same with a slight edge in throw and overall output going to the A2.

Perhaps you have a really good U2, or the A2 is having problems.

Numbers aside, I just took both outside and the U2 seems to have more of a spill close up. There is a color difference, however in my neighborhood, the U2 beam tends to wash out at distance whereas the A2 beam is more noticeable due to the color contrasts.

I think they are both very fine lights.  

Tom


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## 270winchester (Oct 22, 2006)

JNewell said:


> OK, I went back and read the whole thread, all 211 posts. I was surprised at how many posts one of the users had deleted.



wow you are right. All done on 10-20-2006 too!!!!


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## B737Driver (Oct 22, 2006)

:hahaha:


270winchester said:


> wow you are right. All done on 10-20-2006 too!!!!


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## dchao (Oct 22, 2006)

*Rename the title to....*

"*Why was a A2 so popular?"*

A2 is no longer the king of the flashlights. A2 was special, because it's incan was regulated to give bright white light until the end of battery life. But if you look at the flashlights available today, A2's advantages have all gone.

Every LED light has some form of regulation, and regulation is cheap now. If you want consistant brightness, get an LED light. If you want an incan light, no problem, 2000+ mAh Li-Ion can supply 2A of current at a very flat voltage curve. This is going to make the cheap 3.7V xenon bulb an real alternative to the more expensive A2.


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## 270winchester (Oct 22, 2006)

*Re: Rename the title to....*



dchao said:


> "*Why was a A2 so popular?"*
> 
> A2 is no longer the king of the flashlights. A2 was special, because it's incan was regulated to give bright white light until the end of battery life. But if you look at the flashlights available today, A2's advantages have all gone.
> 
> Every LED light has some form of regulation, and regulation is cheap now. If you want consistant brightness, get an LED light. If you want an incan light, no problem, 2000+ mAh Li-Ion can supply 2A of current at a very flat voltage curve. This is going to make the cheap 3.7V xenon bulb an real alternative to the more expensive A2.



that's a nice theory.

in the real world, many people need to have primary batteries stored away for long periods of time. You can't have hundreds of Li-Ion batts sitting around (think of the cost and maintenaince cycles) like you can with long shelf life lithium batteries.

The 3.7 volts lights won't run on 123s or AAs, that's for sure. They don't have soft-start and will suffer from the current rush.

So for most people who want to have the option to use primary batteries, 
the A2 is still(amazingly enough) the pinnacle of small portable lighting when people need eye-friendly color rendition. Until we can have multi-color spectrum LEDs I don't see that happening.

I like my LED lights(Surefires, HDS, McLux's, Pierce, etc), But I LOVE my A2 and my Tigerlight.


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## js (Oct 22, 2006)

trailblazer,

Any incan beam will look "yellow" and "sickly" (to some eyes, anyway) when compared to an LED beam. The CCT of the A2 beam is very good for an incan, but is a LOT lower than the CCT of an LED beam.

However, that said, the fact remains that the CRI (color rendering index) of the A2 is 100, whereas it is a lot less than that for an LED beam. The spectral profile of an LED beam does not follow a Plankian black body curve, also called a Plankian black body locus. (In LED binning codes, (like "TWAK" or "UW0K") the third place bin indicates how closely the curve of that particular LED approaches a PBBL) The LED output, categorically, is not nearly as good at faithful color rendering.

Indoors, the LED beam's lower CRI does not make itself felt very much, and I find LED light superior for most, if not all, indoor useage.

Outdoors, especially in rain and fog and snow, the lower CRI and super high CCT of an LED beam translates into poorer definition of illuminated objects and reduced throw.

As for "hype" surrounding the A2, I rather think that it isn't hype at all, but more along the lines of excitement and rave postings by A2 owners. There is a difference. The A2 is not a new light. And when it came out, there was a lot of reaction against it, just like your post. A lot of people bought the A2, then sold it within days of getting it. A lot of people posted their disappoinment and disgust, and couldn't say much good about the A2--especailly the price tag and the value per cost ratio. There was thread after thread bashing the A2. And before it's release there was even a thread suggesting that CPF "ban" the A2 so that SureFire would be forced to stop ripping us off so badly. The term "BOHICA" (Bend Over Here It Comes Again) was used frequently to describe what SF was doing to "us" with the A2. CPFer Gandalf was the most prominent member of the anti-A2 cult. And all the delays of the release of the A2 didn't help matters.

What really pisses me off about all this, as well as disgusts me, is that CPF wouldn't even have known about the A2 if PK hadn't told McGizmo about it and shown it to him and authorized him to post about it. He was doing us all a favor, giving us a heads up on a new product. And the thanks he got? A lot of CPFers getting upset when it wasn't available when PK had predicted.

And, what really gets under my skin about all of that, is that NO ONE WAS FORCING ANYONE TO BUY AN A2. So people thought it was way too expensive? Fine. Don't buy the damn thing, then. Releasing an expensive light is hardly a BOHICA. Now if the government impossed a $5 per gallon gas tax, that would be a BOHICA. Or when the railroad magnates charged ridiculous prices to farmers knowing that they didn't have any other choice but to pay the cost--that was BOHICA.

But releasing an expensive, fancy FLASHLIGHT? Get a freakin' grip. It's just another OPTION. Options are good.

Anyway, I digress. The point is that the A2 is far beyond the point of being "hyped". If you go back and read McGizmo's initial thread on the A2 (the first A2 thread ever to be posted on CPF) you will see what I mean. And then not long after that came all the backlash about the price. And not long after it was released came all the backlash about the performance.

Because the A2 is a subtle light. It most definitely does NOT blow you away or Wow! you. At first, you may not be impressed at all, and may do exactly as you did--sell it right away. this_is_nascar is a prime example of this. He was not at all a fan of the A2 for a long time. Yet, as he posted in my A2 thread, he has since come around to an appreciation for this light.

Becuase, (and this is for you dchao), the A2 *was never the king of flashlights*. But, nonetheless, the A2 *still is quite special and still retains ALL of its' advantages*.

What are those advantages?

Small size, instant access to two levels of output with one hand, two types of beams, two types of light, regulated incandescent output, and SureFire quality and warrantee.

No other light has these things.

Even the U2 is too large to EDC for many people. Some may find it pocketable and may find it just fine for EDC. And that's great! The U2 is an awesome, awesome light. I've contemplated buying one on more than one occasion. But *for me* the U2 is just too big for pocket carry. For me, even the A2 is on the large size, but not to the point where it's a deal breaker or anything. Plus, there is the incan vs. LED question. I not only like, but often NEED an incan beam.

There always have been and always will be alternatives to the A2. We didn't need to wait for 2AH Li Ion cells for that. Heck, when the L4 came out, most people who still owned A2's sold them, saying the L4 just totally eclipsed their A2's. The fact is, and always will be, that the A2 is an easy mark. It's easy to dis it. It's easy to "show" that it's a stupid choice, and that for any use, there are better lights for less money.

Yet, still the cult of the A2 continues. Insult the A2 and watch how many A2 owners come to its defense. Why is that? You think they're just stupid and uninformed and out of touch? That they just don't realize that the "A2's advantages have all gone"?

Bullshit. The A2 may not be the king of flashlights. The A2 may not be for everyone. The A2 may not be the cheapest light, or the best "value for the money". But it damn well still does have it's advantages--every one of them that it used to. And it damn well still is a very good choice for a number of us flashlight afficionados.

You think I couldn't EDC any light I wanted to? You think I haven't kept up on the latest in flashlight offerings?

Think again.

I will have EDCed my A2 for two full years come this December. And I haven't even been tempted by anything else I've seen. It's the most useful light I own, and pretty much the best EDC currently possible for my particular needs and perferences.


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## 270winchester (Oct 22, 2006)

the interesting thing is that in the initial thread Jim posted, the projected price was 225(in 2002). The official price was 185 instead for years and just recently went up to 195, still 30 dollars less than the original price four years later. Of course a lot of us got ours for much less than 185 through otehr sources.

In a perfect world we would all be driving a Lambo or a Hummer. In the real world we have our own choices in our idea of a reasonable car for our needs. The same can be said of lights. I have been fortunate to have the itch to buy my first A2 and am glad I did. I have since sold my M3t and M6, but I'll hold on to my A2 as long as it works.


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## leukos (Oct 22, 2006)

Too bad this thread turns out to be another A2 vs. U2 thread. Funny how a two stage light gets compared with a six stage light that retails for 50% more.


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## cy (Oct 22, 2006)

nice writeup JS! 

why don't ya tell us how you really feel  

I've got both A2 and U2 sitting right here... been thru phases of EDC U2 and A2. both are too big for my preference in size for EDC. then again I was carrying around M6/M6R in my backpack for 3-4 months and would do so again if needed. 

Li11430/CR2 has been pulling EDC duties for close to 2 years with ti PD recently added. 

so it really boils down to personal preferences. I can chose keep any light that suits me. 

for me Surefire U2, A2 and M6 are keepers!


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## carrot (Oct 22, 2006)

Great post, js. It's people like you who make CPF an interesting place to be.


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## Illum (Oct 22, 2006)

carrot said:


> Great post, js. It's people like you who make CPF an interesting place to be.



carrot, its people like you that makes each thread very interesting to read


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## woodrow (Nov 25, 2006)

I am putting a couple of hundred dollars together to buy another light. I have been looking at scorpian 500's, wolfeyes 13v rechargables as well a carley bulbs for my t3 and other rechargable kits for my g2z. I have also seriously considered a l2, but NEVER an A2.

I was looking for beamshots and came across this thread (I had skipped over it many times before) but tonight I read the whole thing. Then I looked at my old e2e body and remembered how nice it was to carry a small light arround...so now you have convinced me. My next light will be an A2

I am sure there are a ton of lights that do so many things better, brighter, ect...but this one looks like it will do what I want a light to do 98% of the time very well. Regulated xenon...how cool is that.

Thanks again!


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## Ledacholic Anonymous (Nov 25, 2006)

Because of this thread that got my curiosity, I now an A2 owner .


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## Buffalohump (Nov 30, 2006)

Great thread guys, I feel like I really know this light now and I can well understand why people feel so strongly about it...

I just have one question: the only Surefire I own is a 6P. How does the beam of the A2 compare to the 6P's in terms of throw, side spill etc? 

Thanks!


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## CQB (Nov 30, 2006)

ah! I LOVE this place! 

In my circle of friends (locally) I am pretty much the only flashaholic and this sometimes presents times where I need to "defend" my choice of spending as much as I do on... "... they're just flashlights...".

At first it was very difficult to deal with as I would get so defensive and emotional. Funny how certain subject matters can trigger such a strong emotional response! But after being a flashlaholic for sometime now and from reading many threads on similar subjects I now take it all in stride, using various comparisons of similar (and perhaps more mainstream) hobbies like cars, cameras, cell phones, knives, and other "kit".

JS - great post! Enjoyed it very much!

Like many CPFers i too became a late A2 convert. Price tag kept me away. Non-clickie switch didnt attract me. A tad larger than the usual E2x I was used to. But one day I bought it anyways. And wow, after using it... after really using it dailyl/nightly I am now a believer. The venerable A2 is a light that does it all.

as an aside, one of the many aspects that I DO enjoy from my SF lights are the fit and finish. I love the way MilSpec type III anodizing *feels* in my hands, the color, the smoothness of the tailcap when turning it... just the sheer *perfection* from the craftsmanship..! I dont get the same craftsmanship from lights at a lower price point, and thats fine.

Most of my friends can do without the quality, fit & finish, etc. They just want somthing that works at a mediocre level. They dont chase people in the dark, and dont rely on doing threat assessments at work like I do. They perhaps are not aware of the benefits of multiple outputs. That's fine, it's all good.

And some lights that I do own are *normal* lights as well. They DO have their uses. But as a collector and as a flashaholic, I like investing in quality, features, and reliability.

And a lifetime guarantee! (Although as of late, it seems SF has their hands full dealing with other customers/military needs, and I (reluctantly) understand. It took 4 months for me to receive a P60 LOLA and a E-series clickie to replace defective parts. I'm just glad I received them in the end.)

Sorry. It's morning and I'm still not fully awake. Will return to bed to recharge a tad more. 

ps. Love the A2 but am rotating it with the new Kroma. Love the Kroma!! 
pps. trying to buy a PKEF!! Waiting on confirmation from the seller. Guess I'll have to buy the wife something equally nice this year too huh?


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## Scott112 (Nov 30, 2006)

It's not just what the A2 does, but how much I enjoy using it, especially since I had Milkyspit upgrade the LED's to THC3's.




Major improvement!

I just haven't found anything else that is nearly as much fun to use & own (but I'm still looking



).


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## bwaites (Nov 30, 2006)

The THC3 LED upgrade is a big improvement! I'm really happy with the difference. The whiteness of the LED much more closely matches the Incandescent beam, and is smoother and more floody to boot, with minimal loss of LED throw.

Milkyspit came up with a GREAT mod and does beautiful work!

Bill


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## Perel (Nov 30, 2006)

I'm going to jump in here, as an A2 owner for almost a year, with a different opinion. I bought an A2 last January because from all the threads on CPF, it looked like the best EDC light for me. Unfortunately, I misplaced it last month.. and I'm not sure if I'm going to buy another one or not.

Now, it is possible that I just got a dud light, over and over. Shortly after I got my light, it wouldn't go into incan. Ended up having to send it back to SF and it turns out that the regulator was bad AND one of the tabs in the tailcap had broken off. After waiting several months for my light back, I finally got it.. and a couple months later, the tailcap broke again. It would still go to incan, but you had to be careful about how far the tailcap was rotated.

Being able to go from low to high is nice, as is the difference in beam patterns. Personally, for my EDC use, I found the throw and lumens on the incan a bit lacking, and the light too bulky if I wanted to use it on low. If there was the option of putting a P90 type bulb in the A2, it would be more appealing to me. I'm willing (though reluctant) to chalk up the multiple quality problems and poor customer service I recieved to a fluke, and give SF another shot.. but it is admittedly a pretty hard sell for me at this point.

I'm glad a lot of people love this light. I can't really recommend it at this point myself, but I'm open to the possibility that I just had an uncommon negative experience and it's usually a much better light.


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## bwaites (Nov 30, 2006)

Perel makes a good point. While the A2 is a great light, a small number of the lights are burdened with some kind of issue. Not anywhere near the number of U2 tailswitch issues, but nevertheless, a measurable number.

I have had 4, all functioned perfectly, but I know that KevinL, who wrote one of the longest running A2 threads, has had issues with his as well. He loves the light, but hates the tailswitch problems. It was significant enough that he doesn't EDC his, being afraid of the risk of it not working.

Surefire's customer service invariably works, but it is a ssssllllooowwww process sometimes, most people are happy in the end, but it does take toooooooo loooonnnnggg at times!

Bill


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## MKatzpp (Dec 1, 2006)

Is there any way to put a clicky tailcap on the A2?


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## carrot (Dec 1, 2006)

Nope. A lot of people have wanted one and looked for such a thing, but a clickie tailcap for the A2 does not exist and probably never will.


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## MKatzpp (Dec 1, 2006)

One more question. i own the U2 and recently got the kroma. i love surefire lights and quality, but as with most flashaholics, always want more. is there really any practical reason to get the A2 also? or would you say i pretty much have the spectrum of need and usefulness covered with the 2 surefires i already own?


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## vizlor (Dec 1, 2006)

I recomend you buy and try an a2, mkatzpp, you can always sell or trade it here if you don't like it.

There is always "some" use for every light.


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## rgp4544 (Dec 1, 2006)

MKatzpp said:


> One more question. i own the U2 and recently got the kroma. i love surefire lights and quality, but as with most flashaholics, always want more. is there really any practical reason to get the A2 also? or would you say i pretty much have the spectrum of need and usefulness covered with the 2 surefires i already own?



I've got some A2's and purchased a Kroma for the multiple color output in one light. The Kroma is a very good light if you have to work in a situation requiring red or blue light but the A2 seems to be better overall than the Kroma.

The colored output on the K2 is actually a better colored flood than you get with a red A2 but that is where the Kroma's superiority ends.

The A2's incandescent beam has better throw, better color rendition, and makes it easier to actually identify what you see at a distance. Additionally the A2's white low beam is a great flood and the Kroma's white low beam stinks.

I tried carrying nothing but a Kroma for several days to get used to it and when I picked up an A2 again I was surprised at how small the A2 felt in the hand. Additionally the A2's clip and lanyard system makes for much more convenient use than the Kroma's downward pointing clip. The Kroma is also too heavy to clip to a shirt pocket.

I am keeping the Kroma because there isn't anything as versatile as the Kroma, but if I could only keep one light it would be a white A2...if I could only keep two lights they would be a white A2 and a red A2. And I'm back to carrying a white A2 every day.

Richard


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## MKatzpp (Dec 1, 2006)

I do so much research on flashlights, but without actually using them its impossible to understand everything written or put it in proper context. 

just so i'm clear. if you depress the tailcap on low (we'll say i buy a green LED A2) you get the 3 green LEDs. if you depress it more for high you get the bright white + the green LEDs? or do you get JUST the white on high?


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## PoliceScannerMan (Dec 1, 2006)

MKatzpp said:


> I do so much research on flashlights, but without actually using them its impossible to understand everything written or put it in proper context.
> 
> just so i'm clear. if you depress the tailcap on low (we'll say i buy a green LED A2) you get the 3 green LEDs. if you depress it more for high you get the bright white + the green LEDs? or do you get JUST the white on high?


Both will be on. The leds actually get a hair brighter while the incan is on. The Sf Kroma is the same way also. (If the blue/red leds are selected via ring)


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## dchao (Dec 1, 2006)

rgp4544 said:


> The colored output on the K2 is actually a better colored flood than you get with a red A2 but that is where the Kroma's superiority ends.
> 
> The A2's incandescent beam has better throw, better color rendition, and makes it easier to actually identify what you see at a distance. Additionally the A2's white low beam is a great flood and the Kroma's white low beam stinks.


 
On the K2, I use the blue light instead of low white. Blue is slightly better at preserving your night vision. There are two levels of blues for this task, compare to just one level of low white on the A2.

What make me carry the K2 is it's ability to use rechargeables 17670. Over 1.5 hours on 17670, compare to 50 min on A2. 

Plus the bulb for A2 is so expensive. Everything adds up to the running cost of an A2.


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## TwoGuns (Dec 4, 2006)

I probably wouldn't own one if a good deal hadn't popped up.

$100 for a brand new A2 in red is a deal I just couldn't pass up.


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## Illum (Dec 4, 2006)

TwoGuns said:


> I probably wouldn't own one if a good deal hadn't popped up.
> 
> $100 for a brand new A2 in red is a deal I just couldn't pass up.



$100?

congratulation on the deal! :thumbsup::goodjob:


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## Arkayne (Dec 5, 2006)

The A2 was my first real flashlight and I've yet had a need to replace it. At this point in time, financially, I can't justify buying a new light when the A2 pretty much does it everything I need. Buying any other light would be a Novelty since I'd still use the A2 exclusively. 

Sure, you can carry your ultrabright incan with you but why would you want to fumble around in your pockets for the keychain led when needed. I'd rather have the all-in-one solution. The incan will light up a huge area and my reds help me see while retaining my dark adapted vision.

I just wish there was a smoother rubberized body version of it. The A2 knurling isn't too friendly with other items in the pocket.


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## bwaites (Dec 5, 2006)

Arkayne,

You could use the rubberized dips/paints that you can buy at hardware/tool stores and coat the problem areas. A thin coat would solve your problem and increase the grippiness of the light, while also providing cushioning if you dropped it!

Bill


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## Arkayne (Dec 5, 2006)

bwaites said:


> Arkayne,
> 
> You could use the rubberized dips/paints that you can buy at hardware/tool stores and coat the problem areas. A thin coat would solve your problem and increase the grippiness of the light, while also providing cushioning if you dropped it!
> Bill



You know what Bill, that's a good idea. I've a can of that stuff in black in my garage. I'm going to give the knurling a light coat this weekend and post the results in a new thread.


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## bwaites (Dec 5, 2006)

If you have good luck, let us know, I have several lights I'm considering treating with the stuff!

It will be warmer in winter and cooler in summer than straight metal!

Bill


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## bwaites (Dec 5, 2006)

I'm not sure you can't have a clicky! Has anyone asked milkyspit if it is possible?

I know that he makes clickies for two stage LED's, I'm not sure if it is possible with the A2, but the principle is the same!

Bill


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## socom1970 (Dec 6, 2006)

I don't know why it is so popular, either, because I do not own one, but I can not stop thinking or dreaming about getting one. I can't afford it right now, but it is the one light I think about more often than any other light in my past. I use my lights. A lot. Every night. And I think the A2 is a users light, not a braggers light (so far as I have read from all the posts anyway). From the impression I get, it is a true utility light with real world uses and a lot to offer to anyone who has a range of lighting needs and is willing to give it a real chance. It is the next light I will get (someday...). This and other A2 threads have been very helpful and I am thankful to all of you on all sides who have chimed in on this wonder of technology. And I extend a special Thank You to Paul Kim, possibly the greatest flashaholic of all, for making the A2 Aviator a part of our dreams and our reality.


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## socom1970 (Dec 6, 2006)

By the way, Which color LED's would you all say is most useful for looking around and general navigation besides the white? I'm thinking the yellow-green, but I'm not sure...


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## bwaites (Dec 6, 2006)

Yellow green are nice, but VERY artifacty, perhaps the most of all of the LED's. They produce a pattern which is very reminiscent of the "nuclear biohazard" rings.

Red preserves night vision the best. 

Bill


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## pjandyho (Dec 6, 2006)

I have a black A2 which is one of my favorite and I EDC it the most. Sure, the A2 is not as strong as my other incand lights but it has a bright enough lumens to do most of the job. When trekking, I love to use the LEDs for low level illumination which is more than adequate for very dark areas and knowing that the higher beam incand is just a push away on the tail cap. The other thing that I liked about the A2 in comparison to the other Surefire 2 or multiple stage lights besides the L1 is the smaller package. Try comparing the A2 side by side with the L2, U2, or Kroma to see the difference.

Only thing that saddens me is that after all the hype about the MA02 LA being able to run for a very long time because of the soft start and the regulation circuitry, my MA02 blackens after about 5 or 6 battery change. That isn't very Surefire like considering the P61 on my M2 had gone through thick and thin with me since I bought it 3 or 4 years back and it is still clear as crystal.

Other than that, the A2 is still a very prized possesion of mine, especially since it is black.


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## bwaites (Dec 6, 2006)

I had a MA02 that was almost 3 years old, had been through 20 or more battery changes and had only the faintest hint of darkening, somethings up if yours are darkening that fast! (Mine was stolen in a car break in last week.)

My brother in law used his in Baghdad for a year, at least 50-60 cell changes and couldn't tell that it had darkened at all.

Bill


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## pjandyho (Dec 6, 2006)

That surprises me too. I usually stop using the incands after the power level drops. It is not like I tried squeezing the very last drop of juice from the batteries even though the incand is down to about a third or quarter of full power. I will try on a new LA to see if it lasts as long or much longer.


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## pjandyho (Dec 6, 2006)

bwaites said:


> (Mine was stolen in a car break in last week.)



That's a shame isn't it? I bet that bugger knows a lot about quality lights! Or maybe he just needed the A2 to aid in his getaway?


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## bwaites (Dec 6, 2006)

Naw, he stole anything he could get, including an ROP, and a Milkyspit M240, lots of change, etc.

That's what ticks me off the most, he'll use it until the batteries die, then just toss it, because he won't know what those funny cells are!

Bill


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## Silver Wings (Dec 6, 2006)

it's a great light.quality materials and great fit and finish


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## pjandyho (Dec 6, 2006)

I can really ampathize with how you felt. I lost an E1L some time back and it is during that point of time my favorite EDC.

Thing is, in Singapore many folks are not accustomed to using CR123 in their flashlights because it costs about US$4 each. Whoever who picks up that E1L would just throw it away too when the cell is flat. Of course, if only they know the right source for the batteries...


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## Fluffster (Dec 7, 2006)

pjandyho said:


> Thing is, in Singapore many folks are not accustomed to using CR123 in their flashlights because it costs about US$4 each.


Argh, here in Iceland they cost about US$12!
Ordering batteries over the internet is close to impossible due to the mountains of environmental red tape paperwork.
The local Surefire dealer sells them for US$3.60 which is less than I would end up paying for $1 cells if I were to import them myself.


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## CQB (Dec 8, 2006)

dchao said:


> What make me carry the K2 is it's ability to use rechargeables 17670. Over 1.5 hours on 17670, compare to 50 min on A2.



just to confirm, the 17670 works on the Kroma? According to LightHound and AW's thread, the 17670 = 600S. I have the 600S from PILA and mine does NOT fit into the Kroma nor the A2. 

tks for clarifying...


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## yaesumofo (Dec 8, 2006)

If you were an airline pilot or mechanic you would own one of these. They are designed so that the beam will illuminate the entire tail section of a 747 so at night the area may be pref light inspected.
This is a light designed from the ground up to be a tool for a specific purpose.
I can understand why you do not get it. You don't need one. You probably shouldn't buy one. It would be a waste of money for you.
Some people will spend what ever it takes to have the right tools in their tool chest or flight bag.

The feature I love most about this light is the regulated incandescent light. As far as I know this is the only commercially available regulated incan light available.
I am not an airline worker. But I do appreciate the ability to see in the dark. This is a great tool for the job. 
Yaesumofo


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## socom1970 (Jun 8, 2007)

I finally acquired an A2 and I LOVE it. It is my first A2 and I understand why it is so popular for those who "get it". After a good cleaning and silicone lube job of o-rings, the tailswitch is like butter, silky smooth, very responsive. I love that I can adjust the switch to whatever sensitivity or adjustment I want. The ability to have two completely different types of beams in one unit with such a simple and intuitive switch assembly is a work of art. The beauty of this light makes my smile whenever I use it. I have a few multi-level led lights, but the beam charachteristics are the same, just that the lumens are different. With the A2, you have two completely different types of light sources each with their own benefits and detriments. To add to this, the concept of a regulated incan on top of it is truly icing on the cake. I see my other incans that didn't seem to dim too bad over time, even with li-ions, pale in comparison with the A2's regulation over time. I know for most people, this light grows on you, but I liked it right away.


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## Daniel_sk (Jun 8, 2007)

I have the A2 since yesterday and now I understand why is it so popular :rock:


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## Bravo25 (Jun 8, 2007)

Daniel_sk said:


> I have the A2 since yesterday and now I understand why is it so popular :rock:


 
It is another one of those CPF (Murphy) Laws. Or it should be.
You don't get it, until you got it.
You can read the abundance of info here about it, but it still comes down to same thing.

You just don't get it, until you have got it.


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## Codeman (Jun 8, 2007)

Add one of Atomic_Chicken's Aviatrix drop-in replacement LED rings and you'll really like the A2.


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## socom1970 (Jun 8, 2007)

Codeman said:


> Add one of Atomic_Chicken's Aviatrix drop-in replacement LED rings and you'll really like the A2.



That is definately my next purchase. I wonder how many people have or will purchase A2's because of Chicken's Aviatrix...


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## europium (Jul 31, 2007)

Every lengthy A2 thread deserves a link to this (infamous) review: 

*The A2 stinks*

:duck:

Eu


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## dolbyyy (Jul 31, 2007)

europium said:


> Every lengthy A2 thread deserves a link to this (infamous) review:
> 
> *The A2 stinks*
> 
> ...



Ehehe, well everyone here has his own opinion and that's the way it should be, always and wherever. I will tell you that I started buying a A2 with white leds and I loved it immediately. After a week I decided that i wanted one for every leds color, so I bought the blue leds, than the green leds, the red leds and now I am missing the yellow/green to complete my collection. We all own a lot of very good flashlights and the best of them will be the one we feel more comfortable with. I feel comfortable with my A2s and IMO they are worth every cent. I would really try an Aviatrix from Atom Chicken but I'm not sure he will sell international orders.


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## Illum (Jul 31, 2007)

europium said:


> Every lengthy A2 thread deserves a link to this (infamous) review:
> 
> *The A2 stinks*
> 
> ...





josey said:


> Then I saw wise carrot-like people rave and put the A2 in their signature lines.



carrot-like....


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## BSCOTT1504 (Jul 31, 2007)

I just got my A2 a week or so ago and I love it!! It's safe to say that at some point I will have another!


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## mx125 (Aug 2, 2007)

I'm a new guy . .and have seen the wonder of the cree led's, which brought me into the world of "real" flashlights. 

I've now read every post in this thread . .and the famous and breathtaking review by js . . and every post in the "a2 stinks" thread. I'm getting thoroughly sucked in, and the A2 has now become a mythological thing to me. Part of the downside there, is that if I do get one . . although I will likely come to appreciate it or love it over time . . I may be setting myself up for out-of-the-box dissappointment. 

I've read the review on FLR about 37 times as well, but can't seem to get a true feel for the incan beam. Ideally, I really should try to see one in person, but don't know if that's possible. Some say it's sickly yellow, however the colour temp (and one of the wallshots) seems to point to something whiteer, and different that other (low end) incans i've used through my life. 

Can I ask if anyone who has used a streamlight twin task can compare that xenon beam to the incan A2? 

Based on FLR it appears my twintask puts out roughly the same led output and approx half the output of the A2 incan. Looking into the lit bulb on my twintask (indirectly) it definitely appears dim yellow and gives off a feeling of "dim sizzle burn" even with fresh batteries. Not a searing white, that I somehow expected from the xenon hype from that era. It is effective enough in use outdoors, but when used still just says "average flashlight". Not anything that wife or other would note as special or wow. It almost gives off a tangible sense that power is being sucked from the batteries while it seemingly strains to light up the ground. In fact, most usually just switch to the leds . .although dimmer just seem more useful. 

As difficult as it might be to describe, given my above xenon experience, what do you think my reaction will be when I first stitch on the A2? 

Will I say . ."wow . .that is pretty white! . . and "twice the light is actually a LOT more light". Will I say, "that's not like any incandecent I've ever seen!" . . . .. 

Or should I expect more an "oh . . .right. That's kind of like a flashlight beam" (other benefits aside). 

Again . . the latter reaction would not be to say the light isn't great or effective, nor would it take away from all it's virtues, or perhaps my long term affection. I'm just looking for more tangible insight into a modern incan beam that I'm not really getting in the few beamshots available. 

Thanks.


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## dolbyyy (Aug 2, 2007)

mx125, Welcome on CPF. Unfortunatelly I have never owned a streamlight twin task so I cannot make a comparison with my A2s. Anyway I can tell you that IMO one of the main characteristics that makes A2 different from many other incandescent flashlights is that it's digitally regulated, so for the most of the runtime you will enjoy a full power from the MA02 Lamp. It's a bright incand but if you compare the MA02 to a Cree Led it will seem to you much more yellow, this is normal because the brightest incand lamp will always seems yellow compared to a Led, but be sure that the color rendition you get from A2 incand is perfect and not comparable to any other LED flashlight I know. A2 it's not the "WOW" kind of flashlight, it's much more a friendly and comfortable flashlight that you would easily enjoy and trust for EDC. I use them often (I own 4, one for each Led color) both indoor and outdoor and even if I also EDC a Fenix P3D-CE in my little shoulder bag, I always prefer the feeling and the comfort of the A2.
Well, that sayed, now I also want to tell you that everyone has it's own opinion and you can read tons of post about the A2 positive or negative but if you don't put your hands on it and play with it for a while you will never know exactly if it's good for you and for your needs or not.
I also want to add another nice characteristic of A2: Usually people that owns it starts enjoying and loving it more day after day.:thumbsup:


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## BlackDecker (Aug 2, 2007)

I already own a Streamlight Twin Task 1L. Other than the digital regulation, I don't see much difference between it and the A2. 

Oh wait... there is a difference. That big wad of cash that's still in my pocket from not buying an A2!


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## Codeman (Aug 2, 2007)

Regulation is what puts the A2 into a class by itself, and is certainly worth the money, IMO!

Run a Twin Task next to an A2 for 30-45 minutes continuously and see which one's still performing as well as it was when it was first turned on. That will be the A2 every time.


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## js (Aug 2, 2007)

mx125,

It's been a while since I've used a SL TT 2L, but from what I remember, the A2 beam isn't that much brighter and better than the 2L. It is brighter and whiter, to be sure, but not, like, overwhelmingly so. They are comparable, actually. On fresh batteries. But the A2 stays that way and the 2L dims over the run.

The 1L is much less output than the A2, however. Definitely outclassed by the A2.

I think that main difference between the 2L and A2 is the size and switching and build quality. The 2L can not be EDC'ed in a pocket. The A2 is much smaller, and in a totally different league when it comes to build quality and ergonomics.

As for the question of whether you are setting yourself up for disappointment, well, it's certainly possible! Josey sure was disappointed. And a lot of other CPF'ers here have expressed a similar reaction to the A2. But an equal or greater number have had the opposite reaction. For me, the A2 actually *did* WOW! the heck out of me. But that's me.

The only way to know for sure is to use the A2 for a couple weeks (at least). Beamshots just won't give you a true feel for the light. We all try to educate ourselves as much as possible around here so that we spend our dollars to best effect, but ultimately, there's still no guarantee, and still plenty of surprises, both pleasant and unpleasant, in store for us all. Good thing we have B/S/T I guess!

Good luck!


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## FASTCAR (Aug 2, 2007)

I sold my A2 because I didnt like it.
Thought the beam was oddly shaped. It was not all that bright.
Price was high IMO for what you get.

For me its HID or LED...incans went the route of coal heating and steam engines.


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## mx125 (Aug 2, 2007)

Thanks guys for the responses. I had my finger on the button to place the order (as I will be in the US for a couple of days next week) and then waited till I heard from the forum. 

I think I'm back to being confused . . and that is NOT because any of your info was unlear! 

Js's post definitely inspired me. And I admit I do feel the intangible draw to the pride of mechanical function and build quality, and the regulated incan output. But there is definitely the other side, with fastcar and blackdecker's honest opinion that incans don't cut it anymore for them. I, too, was so excited by my Cree light that I started to look to HID's . .but realized I probably wouldn't really have as much use day to day for a larger light (Edit . .as codeman noted below!) . 

I have both the SL TT L1, and AA version. The latter is weaker and think I will go home tonight and go outside with both with fresh cells to reset my incan benchmark. FLR lists the "overall output" of those lights at 15 and 25 respectively (2L at 35) . .while the A2 he has at 57. And as you note . .it's a 57 until death . . . so I "should" find it more effective. 

I think if I wasn't so green when it came to what a SF incan 50-60 lumen bulb looks like in the flesh, it would an easier call. Somehow I'd imagined a SF as that blinding white tactical beam from print ads over the years. My SL TT (although advertised as white xenon bulb) certainly can't be described at white or blinding by any stretch. 

I'm leaning 60% towards "buy and try" . . but will run some more comparisons using my current lights and sleep on it. I will say, I'd written off incan's as yesterday's technology (probably naiively) until I got caught up in these threads. So that's a credit to the forum. 

Thanks.


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## Codeman (Aug 2, 2007)

Just remember HID's can't do one thing that the A2 (or TT for that matter) can do - fit inside your pocket!


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## greenLED (Aug 2, 2007)

mx125 - sheer brightness doesn't tell the full story; you won't find a regulated incan light out there. That's one of the real advantages of the A2 over any other lights, even those that may seem brighter when you first turn them on (they'll dim within minutes - not the A2).

The A2 is more of a "utility" light, kinda like the U2.


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## Dinan (Aug 2, 2007)

mx125 said:


> Thanks guys for the responses. I had my finger on the button to place the order (as I will be in the US for a couple of days next week) and then waited till I heard from the forum.
> 
> I think I'm back to being confused . . and that is NOT because any of your info was unlear!
> 
> ...



It seems to me that you're looking for something to amaze you. Well I got my A2 recently and it did amaze me, but not in the sense of the actual bulb or brightness. It's more the UI that SF has implemented into it, being a lot more useful than my P3D since I have instant access to all modes. If you're looking for a light to blind the crap outta someone... I'd stick with your P3D. For a useful light which has good color rendition and decent brightness I'd say the A2 is a good choice. (I'm kind of hooked on Surefire's now... after my P3D I just can't get over the build quality of my L4 and A2. Gonna be getting an E2D and E1E soon with some LumensFactory bulbs... what's wrong with me!!)

Anyway, this thread pretty much chronicles my A2 decision: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/168952

I posted some A2 vs P3D beamshots on this thread at the bottom: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/168789&page=2

Hope it helps you with your decision!


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## mx125 (Aug 2, 2007)

Dinan said:


> It seems to me that you're looking for something to amaze you. Well I got my A2 recently and it did amaze me, but not in the sense of the actual bulb or brightness. It's more the UI that SF has implemented into it, being a lot more useful than my P3D since I have instant access to all modes. If you're looking for a light to blind the crap outta someone... I'd stick with your P3D. For a useful light which has good color rendition and decent brightness I'd say the A2 is a good choice. (I'm kind of hooked on Surefire's now... after my P3D I just can't get over the build quality of my L4 and A2. Gonna be getting an E2D and E1E soon with some LumensFactory bulbs... what's wrong with me!!)
> 
> Anyway, this thread pretty much chronicles my A2 decision: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/168952
> 
> ...


 
I don't think I really need to be amazed. My Lumapower M1 and P2D did amaze me. I think I'm willing to accept impressed vs. older incans. If it's much whiter and somewhat brighter than my TT's, I think I'd be happy with that specific aspect. 

Thanks for your links. Those were helpful . .especially the beamshots. A question . . . 

The "white" led's . .which would be my choice, actually look VERY blue in those beamshots. I admit I do find the blue leds in my TT and older headlamps annoying and after upgrading to a petzl XP headlamp I found the white light soooo refreshing. I've seen various tints in beamshots of A2 "white" led's. Would you say the tint is as "blue" as your beamshots show? Or have newer models become more "white" possibly?


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## Dinan (Aug 2, 2007)

About the "white" LED's... yea there's a lot of information on the A2's notorious "angry blue" tints. It is quite blue in the center hotspot, but still useful nonetheless. Comparing it to my L4 and P3D tints it looks very blue... the only way to fix this (AFAIK) is to get an Aviatrix with better white LEDs, which I plan on doing as soon as posslble.

About the incan, it's the whitest incandescent beam I've ever seen so far, but it's not gonna match your P3D's whiteness for obvious differences. Comparing it to my various mags and my brother's 6P it's significantly whiter, which surprised me.

Another thing that may annoy you if you're used to LED's is the "oval" shape of the A2 incan beam, which inherently comes from the filament orientation. It was a little annoying coming from my L4 since any which way I held it, a perfect circular beam was always produced. It's not really so much the case with the A2 so I oriented the beam to be perfectly straight when I hold it with the belt clip up or down. It doesn't really bother me much anymore.

Other than that... my A2 has started an incandescent crave in me. I had originally started with a bunch of LED lights but now I've got an E2D and an E1E on the way, with their respective LumensFactory bulb upgrades. Of course these ones aren't regulated but it won't bother me that much... I just like incandescent beams now I guess...



mx125 said:


> I don't think I really need to be amazed. My Lumapower M1 and P2D did amaze me. I think I'm willing to accept impressed vs. older incans. If it's much whiter and somewhat brighter than my TT's, I think I'd be happy with that specific aspect.
> 
> Thanks for your links. Those were helpful . .especially the beamshots. A question . . .
> 
> The "white" led's . .which would be my choice, actually look VERY blue in those beamshots. I admit I do find the blue leds in my TT and older headlamps annoying and after upgrading to a petzl XP headlamp I found the white light soooo refreshing. I've seen various tints in beamshots of A2 "white" led's. Would you say the tint is as "blue" as your beamshots show? Or have newer models become more "white" possibly?


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## Codeman (Aug 2, 2007)

mx125 said:


> ...
> The "white" led's . .which would be my choice, actually look VERY blue in those beamshots. I admit I do find the blue leds in my TT and older headlamps annoying and after upgrading to a petzl XP headlamp I found the white light soooo refreshing. I've seen various tints in beamshots of A2 "white" led's. Would you say the tint is as "blue" as your beamshots show? Or have newer models become more "white" possibly?



The best solution to have an A2 with truly white LED's is to either contact Milkyspit or look for the Aviatrix sales thread. I've got an Aviatrix, but you might get something from Milkyspit quicker. Either way, you won't have any angry blue LED's.


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## mx125 (Aug 2, 2007)

Dinan said:


> About the "white" LED's... yea there's a lot of information on the A2's notorious "angry blue" tints. It is quite blue in the center hotspot, but still useful nonetheless. Comparing it to my L4 and P3D tints it looks very blue... the only way to fix this (AFAIK) is to get an Aviatrix with better white LEDs, which I plan on doing as soon as posslble.
> 
> About the incan, it's the whitest incandescent beam I've ever seen so far, but it's not gonna match your P3D's whiteness for obvious differences. Comparing it to my various mags and my brother's 6P it's significantly whiter, which surprised me.
> 
> ...


 
Perfect. That put me over the edge. I just ordered the A2, and got the CPF discount from one of your retailers. 

Everyones advice was really helpful and gave me the honest perspective to make a decision. I know . ..you're thinking "it's only 1 light!" . .and I know a lot of you have one in every colour . . but it was a big step for me nonetheless. 

As it turned out my TT's as comparison with fresh batts were actaully somewhat whiter than i remember, and moreso than on partially dead cells. Therefore I'm betting the regulated A2 will, in fact, excite me in comparison. The FLR numbers really seem to back up a more powerful output than I've experienced with an incan. And as long as the beam isn't super oval, I'll take the advice of one of the posters and use the wide beam as a design advantage outdoors. I will look into the aviatrix as well. 

Thanks again guys!


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## Well-Lit (Aug 2, 2007)

Since we are all individuals, with individual preferences, it's difficult to explain first impressions of the A2. If you do what I did, when I got my first one, you may experience the same thing I did. I immediately put the batts in and lit up my bedroom wall. I think that was the worst thing I could have done. The blue tint was there and I didn't like it. The incan beam was rather nice but nothing "special". I put it away in my flashlight box. 

Post after post was praising this light and since I own plenty of Surefire incans and LED's, I just couldn't understand the praises by the very knowledgeable people here on CPF. 

Then I did what I should have done at the beginning. I cleared my nightstand from all my lights and pulled out the A2 and actually started to used it as a flashlight! I walked around inside the house at night, checked the various nooks and crannies that are familiar to me. The blue tint was not as predominant as I originally saw. Then I took it outside. I found that I could actually could walk around my property just with the LED's on. Then I hit the incan!.... Oh Yes! ..... My first thought was that I have this beam for at least 45 to 50 minutes! No dimming, no yellowing.

Bottom line, at least for me was, that the A2 has to be used in real world applications, your real world applications, no one else's. If it works within your particular niche, then your in business. If not you can always sell it. But it really deserves a fair shake. You deserve a fair shake. 

Best Regards:
Bob


Oops: MX125, I just saw that you ordered your A2. Congratulations! Please disregard my post...Bob


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## JNewell (Aug 2, 2007)

I'm glad you made your call - hope it agrees with you. My A2 is not my most-carried light, but it is a great addition. It does address several things that annoy me. First, while I love my incans, I don't like their downward delivery curve as the batteries are used. Second, while I love some of my LED lights, there is no getting around the superiority of the fuller spectrum of light delivered by an incan bulb. Anyone who's ever tried to sort the black socks from the navy socks in the early morning knows this...  Add the economical (in power consumption) of the LEDs and you have a great combination.


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## lightplay22 (Aug 2, 2007)

Well said Well-lit, as most A2 users also know, its the very usefulness of the A2 that sets it apart and or above so many other good lights. I can hear a voice saying "Milky" because I think I would like the led's to be whiter and if they were a little brighter that would be ok but not a necessity. Enjoy using your new A2 Mx125!


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## mx125 (Aug 3, 2007)

Well-Lit said:


> Since we are all individuals, with individual preferences, it's difficult to explain first impressions of the A2. If you do what I did, when I got my first one, you may experience the same thing I did. I immediately put the batts in and lit up my bedroom wall. I think that was the worst thing I could have done. The blue tint was there and I didn't like it. The incan beam was rather nice but nothing "special". I put it away in my flashlight box.
> 
> Post after post was praising this light and since I own plenty of Surefire incans and LED's, I just couldn't understand the praises by the very knowledgeable people here on CPF.
> 
> ...


 
I won't disregard it . ..That was good insight! I'll do my best to put it into real use before I form my opinion. I'm already trying to come up with excuses to use my flashlights. Thanks Bob. 

And thanks Jnewell and lightplay . . .I'm sure I'll be a proud owner.


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## js (Aug 3, 2007)

Well-Lit said:


> Since we are all individuals, with individual preferences, it's difficult to explain first impressions of the A2. If you do what I did, when I got my first one, you may experience the same thing I did. I immediately put the batts in and lit up my bedroom wall. I think that was the worst thing I could have done. The blue tint was there and I didn't like it. The incan beam was rather nice but nothing "special". I put it away in my flashlight box.
> 
> Post after post was praising this light and since I own plenty of Surefire incans and LED's, I just couldn't understand the praises by the very knowledgeable people here on CPF.
> 
> ...




Very well said, Bob! Excellent, excellent advice, and quite to the point regarding the A2.


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## MacTech (Aug 3, 2007)

I also went through "A2 Buyers Remorse" (I'm sure most everyone does), after all, a light with this much of a cult following would have a hard time living up to the user's preconcieved notions, in other words, the hype surrounding the A2 actually works against it, you expect a retina-scorching high beam and a miserly low beam, and you expect the flawless SureFire beam quality of the P series lamps.....

when you actually get the A2 out and WWH with it, your high expectations are probably dashed, some give up at this point and put the light away, or sell it.....

the secret is, as you have discovered, actually *USING* the light, once you put it to serious use, you realize that it's an extremely useful tool light, a simple, functional piece, it's not meant to be a retina-scorcher, it's just a good, solid light

once I actually started *USING* the A2, I understood it's purpose, and it's been my EDC ever since, the addition of the Aviatrix has made a great light even better, the Aviatrixed A2 is even more versatile than the already versatile stock A2

the A2 probably won't *WOW* you out of the box, it's not meant to, but if you give it an honest chance, I'm sure you'll "get it"


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## mx125 (Aug 3, 2007)

Can I ask your opinion on why Surefire doesn't make more regulated incans? It's probably commonly asked . . . but is it simply too expensive vs. the reasonably flat normal direct drive draw from lithiums? Or were LED's simply the fashion and they stopped incan development?


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## carrot (Aug 3, 2007)

They had some incandescent regulated M-series... I believe I saw a picture once of a prototype M3T regulated, but when Surefire started making the move to high-powered LED's the regulated project was canned. I would love a regulated M3T or M4.


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## Grox (Aug 3, 2007)

Well-Lit said:


> Since we are all individuals, with individual preferences, it's difficult to explain first impressions of the A2. If you do what I did, when I got my first one, you may experience the same thing I did. I immediately put the batts in and lit up my bedroom wall. I think that was the worst thing I could have done. The blue tint was there and I didn't like it. The incan beam was rather nice but nothing "special". I put it away in my flashlight box.
> 
> Post after post was praising this light and since I own plenty of Surefire incans and LED's, I just couldn't understand the praises by the very knowledgeable people here on CPF.
> 
> ...



I think you explained it well Bob. The incredible technical wizardry that goes on inside the A2, the aesthetics and the great form merely serve another purpose: to make an incredibly useful light. The A2 is almost unparalleled when you use it. 

My epiphany came when I had to make a 2.5 hour hike in darkness over rough, hilly terrain in far northern Thailand - just a stone's throw from the Burmese border. I was walking with a party of 4 others and had a variety of lights - U2, HDS EDC U60, PT EOS and a E2E. The U2 was brighter than everything else, but was bulkier. It flattened the scenery, making it hard to judge distance - same with the U60. The EOS didn't put out enough light, and was inconvenient to use. But the A2, on high beam, was perfect. It rendered the path and foliage precisely and easily. I was able to identify at a glance the stones, erosions and organic debris on the path and avoid them easily. The LEDs did not provide me with the same contrast range - it is easy to miss a stone etc even when you are looking at it straight on. Trees further down the path looked flat. We had already hiked for 4-5 hours that day on quite demanding terrain and I can tell you that it was a relief to the sore eyes and brain to not have make a constant effort to scrutinize the path but rather to have details pop out easily. By about 1 hour, the E2E was tiring, the beam was yellowing and dimming, making it harder to discern detail. But the A2 was still happily producing its beautiful white beam. I think the A2 lasted 1:15 on high (rayovac 123s). I have since had other experiences where incandescent light has proved superior in my opinion to LED light - shine an LED vs an incan into a tinted car window for example.

There is a lot of talk about the blue tint to the white LEDs - to tell you the truth, the tint has never really bothered me. And if it did, I could easily have the LEDs modded. Yes, at times I have wished that the LEDs were more whiter but the tint has never really stopped me from doing what I needed to do. A lot of people complain about the incan beam shape. But in real world use, the beam configuration is incredibly useful and does not bother me. The fact that it is regulated and overdriven is an incredible boon and for me a major selling point of this light. 

If you want to look at walls, the A2 is not for you. If you want the brightest, the A2 is not for you. If you want the most flood or the most throw, look elsewhere. But if you want to use a light that is a fantastic pleasure to *use*, a package that will give you a little thrill every time you turn it on - then you should consider the A2.


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## mx125 (Aug 3, 2007)

Grox said:


> I think you explained it well Bob. The incredible technical wizardry that goes on inside the A2, the aesthetics and the great form merely serve another purpose: to make an incredibly useful light. The A2 is almost unparalleled when you use it.
> 
> My epiphany came when I had to make a 2.5 hour hike in darkness over rough, hilly terrain in far northern Thailand - just a stone's throw from the Burmese border. I was walking with a party of 4 others and had a variety of lights - U2, HDS EDC U60, PT EOS and a E2E. The U2 was brighter than everything else, but was bulkier. It flattened the scenery, making it hard to judge distance - same with the U60. The EOS didn't put out enough light, and was inconvenient to use. But the A2, on high beam, was perfect. It rendered the path and foliage precisely and easily. I was able to identify at a glance the stones, erosions and organic debris on the path and avoid them easily. The LEDs did not provide me with the same contrast range - it is easy to miss a stone etc even when you are looking at it straight on. Trees further down the path looked flat. We had already hiked for 4-5 hours that day on quite demanding terrain and I can tell you that it was a relief to the sore eyes and brain to not have make a constant effort to scrutinize the path but rather to have details pop out easily. By about 1 hour, the E2E was tiring, the beam was yellowing and dimming, making it harder to discern detail. But the A2 was still happily producing its beautiful white beam. I think the A2 lasted 1:15 on high (rayovac 123s). I have since had other experiences where incandescent light has proved superior in my opinion to LED light - shine an LED vs an incan into a tinted car window for example.
> 
> ...


 
Great insights Grox. Like a lot of others . .it speaks volumes.

I'm not hugely aware of all the threads on CPF, but I've not come across another specific light that seems to have a following among users.


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## Lightingguy321 (Aug 3, 2007)

Well if this hasn't been mentioned already, the lamp assembly (A02(?)) outlasts the 30 hour standard life span by two or three times (i can't remember what thread it was but the thread mentioned the A2 lamps being able to last 60+ hours). Also part of the cost is because Surefire does have a lifetime warranty on it's product. That is about all I can remember about the A2 at this point.


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## Tempest UK (Aug 4, 2007)

My A2 has seen months and months of use as my EDC light, and I can certainly understand the hype. I do EDC more than one light, but since the A2 became my "main" light, the others have seen a lot less use. There has been plenty said already about the output/UI/regulation of the A2...but one of its best features, to me, is the long pocket clip  It just gives a far more secure "grip" inside the pocket. Shorter clips, such as those on the "E" series, can't compete.

However, I only recently realised _just how much_ I had come to like the A2, and how much I take it for granted. I lost the light, and so began thinking what else in my (extensive) collection of lights could replace it. Nothing. Luckily I found it again just before I was about to break down and order another one  Not that having 2 would be a bad thing...


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## Size15's (Aug 4, 2007)

mx125 said:


> Can I ask your opinion on why Surefire doesn't make more regulated incans? It's probably commonly asked . . . but is it simply too expensive vs. the reasonably flat normal direct drive draw from lithiums? Or were LED's simply the fashion and they stopped incan development?





carrot said:


> They had some incandescent regulated M-series... I believe I saw a picture once of a prototype M3T regulated, but when Surefire started making the move to high-powered LED's the regulated project was canned. I would love a regulated M3T or M4.



Yep - LEDs got in the way - SureFire decided to only release one regulated incandescent - the hybrid model - the A2. 

The M3D/T was one of the best flashlights I've ever experienced.
Here's a photo of me talking with some bloke about proto-type SureFires...


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## Barbarian (Aug 4, 2007)

*Here's a photo of me talking with some bloke about proto-type SureFires...*


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## quokked (Aug 4, 2007)

Size15's said:


> Yep - LEDs got in the way - SureFire decided to only release one regulated incandescent - the hybrid model - the A2.
> 
> The M3D/T was one of the best flashlights I've ever experienced.
> Here's a photo of me talking with some bloke about proto-type SureFires...



I thought u were saying, ' You won't miss these lights if i were to borrow them for a bit would u?' 


In the vein of this thread, I've used a lot of lights in these past few years and experimented with lights that outrate the A2 in terms of brightness (at least initally), played with all the spectrum of cutting edge LEDs, (Lux I, Lux III, Cree XR-E). But the A2 is the light i keep on going back to, 

- The UI is simple (not like button press city).
- You get two levels
- The beam is always white 
- The throw of this incan outshines my LEDs in the darkness
- The size is just right for my hand (YMMV)

I cop a lot of grief from the places that I walk into (classrooms, offices) about why carring a flashlight around, but I still do  even when i could carry something waaay smaller. 
It's almost the warm fuzziness that an A2 can bring 

The A2 (as i think Js) has said, is a user's light, it's not a OMGWTF look how bright that thing is! Or look at how cool my beam looks on this white wall.

It's just good and useful as a light should really be.


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## BSCOTT1504 (Aug 5, 2007)

That bloke you are talking with sure looks familiar Size15's !!


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## dolbyyy (Aug 6, 2007)

Here are my babies... :wave:

http://robbysoul.blogspot.com/


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## js (Aug 7, 2007)

Size15's said:


> Yep - LEDs got in the way - SureFire decided to only release one regulated incandescent - the hybrid model - the A2.
> 
> The M3D/T was one of the best flashlights I've ever experienced.
> Here's a photo of me talking with some bloke about proto-type SureFires...



Hey Al,

Tell us about the M3D/T !!!!! Please. . . . pretty please . . .


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## carrot (Aug 7, 2007)

So... uh... any chance of the M3D/T making a comeback? Please?


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## h2xblive (Aug 7, 2007)

I would love a regulated and slightly longer running SureFire incandescent.

I like how efficient and cheap LEDs are, but due to their harsh and washed out color, I still like to have a good ol' fashioned filament light in my possession.

However, if the A2 is so expensive for its regulated nature, it's not worth it (to me, at least).


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## mx125 (Aug 13, 2007)

I received and played with my new A2. In case anyone wants my new guy fist impressions . . . 

My opinion might be tempered, in part, because I'd prepped myself with all the info here so as not to expect TOO much in wow factor while at the same time be attentive to the subtler details and workmanship. 

In any case, for whatever reason, I find it to be a great light. I love the size and feel in my hand. Going back and forth to a couple of other lights I do see the value of the interface. The push button/lockout and twist on really works for me. 

The LEDS, although slightly blue, are not nearly as blue as others I've owned and the output on low . .as some have said is "just right". It seems to be designed to be "just right" . . . and find it completely useful. The main beem actually does impress me in it's whiteness and power. I didn't expect as much . .and in comparison . . works almost as well as my cree LED. The beam has just enough warmth while still completely beating out the (yellow beamed) twin task xenon I had. 

I admit the knowledge that that beam will be staying white for the life of the cells is very inspiring. Also, other intangibles like the knowledge that the bulb is designed specifically for the light with that self preserving startup circuit gives me added pride. 

I also like the slightly oblong beam. Much more useful, IMO, and clever design considering how clean it is on whitewall tests. I honestly didn't expect such a clean beam from a incan. 

In summary, I think it is worth it and I think I "get it". Some might say I've been sucked in by hype. . who knows. I find the experience of using it richer than my other lights and can't wait to have a real excuse to burn through some cells.


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## Size15's (Aug 13, 2007)

mx125 said:


> I received and played with my new A2. In case anyone wants my new guy fist impressions . . .


Don't forget to give us your impressions after you've put a few sets of SF123A batteries through it - I suspect your opinion of the A2 will grow and establish - you're off to a fine start though - thanks for sharing!

Al


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## Chrontius (Jun 3, 2008)

stockae92 said:


> i don't think there's a perfect light everyone anyone.
> 
> but for me, having lower power LED and regulated incan are big pluses
> 
> when my A2 is done with the battery, i will throw them into my X5T for many more hours to go



All my 123 lights feed my Inova Xo, which feeds my X5t for a _low_ low.


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## Illum (Jun 4, 2008)

I think the A2 will be even more popular now that Koala has created a LED ring with swappable LED sockets


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## Force Attuned (Jun 4, 2008)

Is there a light that exists that's somewhere in between the Aviator and Kroma?? Something with an incan or LED main beam and more than 1 different color secondary LED's??


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## cat (Jun 4, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> I think the A2 will be even more popular now that Koala has created a LED ring with swappable LED sockets



I can't find anything about it...? koala ring A2 ...nothing relevant. :candle:

PS: I found atomic chicken Aviatrix, but not swappable sockets.
PPS: Thanks, Daniel_sk, I'm reading it now. :thumbsup:


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## Daniel_sk (Jun 4, 2008)

cat said:


> I can't find anything about it...? koala ring A2 ...nothing relevant.


A2 dumb LED rings - (Onion Ring)


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