# Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 9-20-09)



## LuxLuthor

This thread presents the graphs done by *Ictorana *using the Excel results of my destructive incan bulb testing thread here. 

His graphs give a whole other appreciation and ability to compare the raw data. Again, Ictorana did all the work, and deserves full recognition of these graphs (additions are noted in subject title).

Full size images are 1075 x 750, allowing you to easily read legend and match up to graph lines. Each category of bulbs has a row of 6 thumbs, following the same order of data presentations for all bulb categories.

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*Category One - All 6 Volt Bulbs (20 bulbs per graph)

**..... I **vs V ..........**.....**L vs V **..........**. **L vs % OD **......**.**.... **L vs I **...**........**.... **L vs P **....**.....**... **Eff vs V*



 *..* 

 *..* 

*.. *

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..

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*Category Two - Medium Power 6 Volt Bulbs (13 bulbs per graph)

**..... I **vs V ..........**.....**L vs V **..........**. **L vs % OD **......**.**.... **L vs I **...**........**.... **L vs P **....**.....**... **Eff vs V*



*..* 

 *..* 

*.. *

 *.. *

 *..*


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*Category Three - PR Bulbs (5 bulbs per graph)

**..... I **vs V ..........**.....**L vs V **..........**. **L vs % OD **......**.**.... **L vs I **...**........**.... **L vs P **....**.....**... **Eff vs V*



*..* 

 *..* 

*.. *

 *.. *

 *..*


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*Category Four - 9 Volt Bulbs (13 bulbs per graph)

**..... I **vs V ..........**.....**L vs V **..........**. **L vs % OD **......**.**.... **L vs I **...**........**.... **L vs P **....**.....**... **Eff vs V*



*..* 

 *..* 

*.. *

 *.. *

 *..*


​============================================================================


*Category Five - 12 Volt Bulbs (15 bulbs per graph)

**..... I **vs V ..........**.....**L vs V **..........**. **L vs % OD **......**.**.... **L vs I **...**........**.... **L vs P **....**.....**... **Eff vs V*



*..* 

 *..* 

*.. *

 *.. *

 *..*


​============================================================================


*Category Six - 24 Volt Bulbs (3 bulbs per graph + couple 12V in some)

**..... I **vs V ..........**.....**L vs V **..........**. **L vs % OD **......**.**.... **L vs I **...**........**.... **L vs P **....**.....**... **Eff vs V*



*..* 

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*.. *

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## LuxLuthor

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs*

reserved....table for two, non-smoking section


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## DM51

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs*

*Superb!* These graphs provide at-a-glance comparisons of the popular hotwire bulbs. Fascinating information, clearly displayed and very easy to understand.

This is a hugely valuable resource for CPF - congratulations and many thanks to both of you! 

I have added this thread to the incan forum's Threads of Interest sticky.


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## ElectronGuru

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs*



And I'm just getting into Osrams, so the timing couldn't be better!


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## LuxLuthor

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-11-09)*

Many thanks again to Ictorana who has done a bunch more categories of bulbs and which are now posted. Refresh your browser if looking at the 12V bulbs, as this is a new replacement set of images.


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## petrev

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-11-09)*

Thanks Guys :thumbsup:

Super work 

One thing can you include the 64633 (nominal 15V) in the 12V bulbs graphs as it fits in very well (15-18V within the 12-23V graph range) even though it is at a higher 11-12A range and higher Lux.

Similarly the 5761 seems like a logical inclusion in the Std. (Cat2) 6V bulbs graph even though it is higher Current and Lux.

Cheers
Pete


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## LuxLuthor

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-11-09)*



petrev said:


> Thanks Guys :thumbsup:
> 
> Super work
> 
> One thing can you include the 64633 (nominal 15V) in the 12V bulbs graphs as it fits in very well (15-18V within the 12-23V graph range) even though it is at a higher 11-12A range and higher Lux.
> 
> Similarly the 5761 seems like a logical inclusion in the Std. (Cat2) 6V bulbs graph even though it is higher Current and Lux.
> 
> Cheers
> Pete



Excellent points. 

I left the suggestions at the altar of the statistical and graphing wizard, and humbly beseeched his kind consideration and forbearance appertaining thereunto.


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## Fulgeo

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-11-09)*

Love this stuff. The original https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179748 thread kept me enthralled for quite awhile and I have to admit I still go back to it a lot. Now this puts a whole new spin on things. You guyz put the "eek" in "geek" and that is a compliment in my book.


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## LuxLuthor

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*

The master sent me the 24V bulbs which I just posted. Half of the graphs have a few other 12 & 15V bulbs included.


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## Mjolnir

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*

Why is it that the 64430 bulb draws almost double the current of the 3854H, but doesn't seem to really be any brighter at the same voltages?


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## LuxLuthor

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*



Mjolnir said:


> Why is it that the 64430 bulb draws almost double the current of the 3854H, but doesn't seem to really be any brighter at the same voltages?



It is an excellent question, and shows you are thinking and questioning. 

The manufacturer specifications in design are different (keep in mind there are 3 models of 64430--so I'm picking the Tungsram):



*64430* - 6V - 35W - 2,000 Hrs Life - More tolerant of voltage overdrive, more durable.
 


*3854H* - 6V - 24W - ? Life (Never found out, but much shorter) - Less tolerant of voltage overdrive, more delicate.
 
I just took this closeup showing the difference in thickness of filaments. I believe the answer is the combination of specific tungsten alloy(s), thickness, & length of filament & supporting metal structures, and the composition of the compressed gas in bulb envelope.


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## cernobila

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*

Looking at the 64430's element design, would this give a better more focused beam than the 3854H bulb?


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## LuxLuthor

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*



cernobila said:


> Looking at the 64430's element design, would this give a better more focused beam than the 3854H bulb?



I know it seems like that should be a simple/obvious answer, and while in general axial filaments like the 64430 look better than transverse ones like the 3854, it also depends on the filament thickness, envelope shape/glass purety, and reflector used. There is even a difference between the three 64430 models.

I would have to do a side by side with similar reflectors to answer you definitively, because the smaller 3854 filament and envelope shape may help its appearance vs. the larger but axial 64430.


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## ElectronGuru

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*



LuxLuthor said:


> I believe the answer is the combination of specific tungsten alloy(s), thickness, & length of filament & supporting metal structures, and the composition of the compressed gas in bulb envelope.



Great discussion. Reminds me of 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton trucks. The bigger ones are more durable and handle bigger loads but also have worse gas mileage.


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## Mjolnir

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*

I would think that a bulb with a longer life would draw fewer amps, so less energy is being wasted, which has to be dissipated somewhere. However, this seems to be the opposite.


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## LuxLuthor

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*



Mjolnir said:


> I would think that a bulb with a longer life would draw fewer amps, so less energy is being wasted, which has to be dissipated somewhere. However, this seems to be the opposite.



Yeah, again a good and logical thought. However the thicker 64430 filament which has more metal & requires more current flowing through it to heat it up to a particular lumen output, has it be durable and tolerant of abuse--like ElectronGuru's 3/4 ton truck example.

Another example of this is the 30W 6V Philips 5761 bulb which has truly spectacular output at ideal voltage demonstrated in Ictorana's graph here. However, it is also very delicate with a life of only 100 hrs, and a limited overdrive tolerance. With AlanB/JimmyM/wquiles new regulators, this can again become a leading bulb for practical use.


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## lctorana

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*

Just want to announce a delay to the progress of my new bespoke hotrater.

Having had five hard-disk crashes in the last month, I am having a hard time rebuilding my PC, so work has stopped at least until I can install Excel. Install anything, for that matter. Something is badly wrong. But at least all data is backed up and safe, so no work has been lost.

That said, I assure you the hotrater will be worth the wait.


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## LuxLuthor

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*



lctorana said:


> Just want to announce a delay to the progress of my new bespoke hotrater.
> 
> Having had five hard-disk crashes in the last month, I am having a hard time rebuilding my PC, so work has stopped at least until I can install Excel. Install anything, for that matter. Something is badly wrong. But at least all data is backed up and safe, so no work has been lost.
> 
> That said, I assure you the hotrater will be worth the wait.



Five HD crashes in a month? That seems statistically impossible even if they are all the same models, they came off the same assembly line on the same day. Sounds more like a power supply, cable, RAM or mobo issue. Good luck


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## HarryN

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*

The last time I had multiple crashes like that, it was the HD controller.

BTW - thanks for all of the interesting work.


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## lctorana

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*

Sorry to go OT, but the HD controller is a motherboard compenent, yes? Has to be - the SATA and IDE sockets are on the MB. Basically, I must need a new motherboard. Groan.


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## jchoo

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*



lctorana said:


> Sorry to go OT, but the HD controller is a motherboard compenent, yes? Has to be - the SATA and IDE sockets are on the MB. Basically, I must need a new motherboard. Groan.



Not necessarily...

$12.99 might fix you up if you have a spare PCI-e slot.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815280009


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## LuxLuthor

Ictorana has given updated graphs for recently tested bulbs. Many thanks for all his work in this thread. Some feedback would be great if you get a chance. :duh2:


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## petrev

LuxLuthor said:


> Ictorana has given updated graphs for recently tested bulbs. Many thanks for all his work in this thread. Some feedback would be great if you get a chance. :duh2:


 
Thanks indeed for all the hard work by you originally and now Ictorana.

If we can get the IvsV, LvsV and PvsV versions of 24V graphs replotted to include the 633, 458 and 623 like the others have been, that would be great.

Overall 

:twothumbs


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## DM51

LuxLuthor said:


> updated graphs for recently tested bulbs... Many thanks for all his work in this thread. Some feedback would be great if you get a chance.


I agree 100% - MANY thanks indeed. This is a *great* thread. It's already a sticky in the "Threads of Interest" thread, but I'm also now sticking it independently for a while, as I think there are quite a few members who may not yet have seen how valuable it really is.


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## Databyter

Thanks for the great charts graphs and links on this thread. I have this bookmarked and go to it literally 10 times a day to figure out how build ideas will work.

The graphs done by Ictorana based on your data are excellent.

You can visually see the strengths and weaknesses and flexibilities ( or lack) of the various bulbs in an intuitive way.

Cheers!


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## Billy Ram

Very informative. I keep comming back here.
Thank you for going to the trouble.
Billy


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## masshricig

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*



ElectronGuru said:


> Great discussion. Reminds me of 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton trucks. The bigger ones are more durable and handle bigger loads but also have worse gas mileage.



I wandered around for several hours this morning, and after registering, I found that I wanted to change stuff. It took me awhile to figure out how to get back to my profile and preferences, and actually meant having to put in my name and password again. I'm also finally figuring out how to use the View New Messages thing. And best of all, we are here!


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## slappomatt

*Re: Destructive Incan Tests - Graphs (Updated 7-16-09)*

has anyone done any testing like this with stock mag bulbs? I'm mainly interested in how much you can over drive the stock bulbs. IE would a 2C bulb handle a freshly charged 18650? or would a 4C handle 2 18650?


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## LuxLuthor

Slappo, I almost decided to test all the various stock bulbs, but given that their overdrive output & voltage tolerance is so much more limited, it didn't seem worth the trouble and expense. I don't think anyone else has done it--to answer your question.


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## HooNz

Been awhile since a post i see , but this is one interesting and informative thread for sure :wave:


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## acrosteve

I agree. I am going to deconstruct one of my incan lights this evening in hopes of replacing the battery. If my bulb is one of these, it will help when i select the battery.


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## jkpq45

Forgive me for posting in a sticky and asking an obvious question, but when I click on the links to Photobucket, I get a very small picture. When saving to my desktop and zooming in to read text, etc., all I see is blur.

I promise I have my glasses on--what am I doing wrong?


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## JCD

jkpq45 said:


> Forgive me for posting in a sticky and asking an obvious question, but when I click on the links to Photobucket, I get a very small picture. When saving to my desktop and zooming in to read text, etc., all I see is blur.
> 
> I promise I have my glasses on--what am I doing wrong?



I had the same problem. In Photobucket's "Options" menu, I found an option to "View Full Web Site" (or something to that effect). That fixed the problem for me. I'm guessing the links were made with a mobile device, and Photobucket doesn't automatically redirect for desktop browsers.


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## jkpq45

That did the trick, thanks!


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## groutboy_1

How come this doesn't happen with my LED Lights?


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## groutboy_1

Sounds a little bias...


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## LuxLuthor

My Photobucket account expires in 2 days. Wonder what will happen with all these photos? I kept copies of everything I posted. No way I'm paying them $400/year. Insane.


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## bykfixer

They revert back to a link to the photo. Instead of a bunch of letters that are underlined you see a big ole icon from them, but it does the same thing as when folks post links to their photos. 

Folks assume the icon means the photo is gone. It's not "gone" it's just a click away instead of showing on the screen. Not a biggy once ya get past the annoyance of the big ole icon.


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## LuxLuthor

OMG! I can’t believe I posted this 10 years ago!


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## id30209

LuxLuthor said:


> OMG! I can’t believe I posted this 10 years ago!



And i’m using these stuff on a weekly basis.
Many thx Lux!


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## LuxLuthor

It was fun doing all these tests. A labor of love.


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## bridgman

id30209 said:


> And i’m using these stuff on a weekly basis. Many thx Lux!


It's been more like "hourly basis" for me recently, which is actually a bit disturbing if I think about it too much 

Seriously, the information and presentation is only becoming more valuable over time, as some bulb sources dry up and new ones need to be found. When I found a table for the Hikari JC-5607 I went from "I don't know what I'm doing" to "but at least someone knows what they are doing" so fast you could hear the click. Thanks !!


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