# Warrior III K3500R



## HIDSGT (Nov 30, 2007)

Well, after much consideration between the Microfire 3500 and the Polarian PF40 I decided to go with the Microfire. It had nothing to do with price. Even tho the MF was $1800.00 less I would have pulled the trigger on the Polarian in a second if it was smaller. It's just not practical for every day use in my line of work. Love that Polarian tho.:devil: (Polarian $2200.00-Microfire $400.00)

I recieved the MF 3500 last night and went out into the woods with both my Wolf-eyes Dragon II and my MF 3500 to see the difference since I use my dragon II at work usually. I would say that the difference between the two is truly a night and day difference. 

First off I could not get over how small the MF 3500 was. At first I thought I was missing part of it then I realized it was just very small. Compared to my Dragon II It was smaller, lighter, easier to unscrew the battery and waaaay brighter and much easier to turn on and off. That twist mechanism of the Dragon II is just plain stupid and a royal pain in the ***. I guess it has its purpose for tactical reasons so it dosent turn on accidentaly but in my opinion having to twist the light is useless. Having a button is mush easier and a hell of a lot more practical.

The construction of the light appears to be quite good. I cant get over the size. Some of the guys I work with were just amazed with how bright it was. One guy said "That little light isn't going to be brighter then my streamlight". So I said lets go find a place that is totally dark so we can test them. Once he turned it on he was like "Holy crap that thing is sick!, you cant even look into it without becomming disoriented". He still thinks paying $400.00 for a light is crazy but a couple of the guys that work for me were asking where they could get one. Two each his own I guess:nana:

I can honestly say that there has been no flickering of the light before reaching full power. It reaches full power in about 15 seconds or so and is brighter then my Dragon II as well as my buddies streamlight on initial startup then both the Dragon II and streamlight were at full brightness. At or close to 3500 lumens I would say is close to accurate. I dont have a device to measure it but it was brighter then car headlights that were adjacent to us when testing the lights.

The charger is very kool and it drops right in without a hassle. About 3 hours to fully charge like it states.

Im sure in 6 months or so someone will come out with something better and brighter but I can honestly say that this light is all anyone would ever need to perform the duties of my profession. I can honestly say that I hope it does not get any smaller. The size is perfect and can be used to whack someone over the head if need be but since we carry tasers now that is unlikely and ill try to refrain from doing that at all costs considering the price of this light vs. my old streamlight. :thumbsup:

I would have to give this light an 8 out of 10. Thing is quite kool! If Polarian comes out with their 30 watt I would entertain it but I am very satisfied with this light. I also own an AE 24 which is like carrying around a small missle. My Shark II was just too big as well and is again a pain in the *** to turn on/off. I will do a video shootout when I get my camcorder fixed.

This is the company I ordered it from and it got here in exactly in (2) days as promised. I paid for (2) day shipping and it got here in exactly two days. I do like the fact that they did not charge my credit card untill it shipped. The owner stated that he likes to start the light up and let it run for a while to rule out and problems before shipping to the customer. He stated that his shipment would get in on monday and I would recieve by wednesday. That is exactly what happend. BTW, it was fully charged as well.

This was the cheapest place that I could find it as well: http://www.opticshq.com/page/Optics/PROD/Surefire-HID/FL-MF-HID-35W-K3500R


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## capt_hooks (Nov 30, 2007)

Glad to hear you are enjoying the k3500, I have one on order should be here in a few days. I orderd from opticshq.com as well. I also liked the fact they ran the light before shipping.


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## Ken J. Good (Dec 4, 2007)

Dave, the owner of Fenix-Store.com was gracious enough to send me a T&E model of a pre-production Warrior III.

Right off the bat, the light looks well-built and has some adjustability in the focus with a slightly frosted/stippled reflector which probably fills in the beam at closer ranges.

I asked for it to do a beam shot/size comparison to the Polarion X1 because somebody within one of these threads wanted it.

It's really not an apple's to apple's comparison, but it might interesting anyway.

The X1 is simply going to blow this light out of the water in output and color temp. 

The X1 is calling out 3,400 lumens on its spec sheet.
The Microfire 3,500 lumens.

Somebody lost some lumens in there somewhere and it is not the Polarion X1. :thinking:

Just a quick toss of light over the fence into the neighboorhood will quickly lead you to that conclusion. The X1 has far more throw and far more lateral coverage at the same time.

I am not going to get too wrapped around the axle about that, but you will see the results yourself when I get imagery.

The X1 is instant strike, something I have been taking for granted. The Warrior III is billed as instant activating, but clearly it takes a while to get to max output. 

The Warrior III is splash proof as opposed to the waterproof X1.

Switching on the Warrior III is much more familiar as it has it's clickable switch on the base of the light. The Polarion uses a rotary dial on the body.

The Warrior III is a much smaller/lighter than the X1 (basically a slightly over-sized mag light), far more conducive to putting in a go-bag, in vehicle storage compartment, take on a hike and puts out a decent quantity of light.

Gotta love the price. I cringe on the Chinese made front though, but that is a personal decision folks make on their own.

Overall, they are really two different products in the sense of size/power.

I will try and get outside and snap some pics in the next couple of nights.


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## dkoong (Dec 4, 2007)

does anyone's k3500r get REALLLLLY hot??? i ran it continuously from fresh battery to empty to test run time and the thing got so hot i could hardly hold it without a cloth!!


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## sharkeeper (Dec 4, 2007)

Ken J. Good said:


> It's really not an apple's to apple's comparison, but it might interesting anyway.



Gee you think so? It's like comparing a Porsche 911 twin turbo to a supercharged Mustang GT (both which I've owned btw).

Guess which one I'd rather be driving every day and getting dinged up?

But size is the biggest thing. Not sure about the actual lumens. Let's put both bulbs in the integrating sphere...

There is definitely a warmup time with the 3500. After all it is a metal halide bulb. My conference room projector has a 300W bulb in it. I wonder how that would work in a large (12"+ reflector?)

The biggest "out the lens" killer on the 3500 is the small reflector. BUT NOTHING puts out more light in such a small package. The other night I was getting a delivery and the UPS man could not believe how bright it was.

As for heat, I've used the light fairly constantly and never really had it get hot. I've never put it down either and frequently hold it around the finned area. The hottest it ever got was after five minutes of use with the UV filter when both the UV filter and lens of the light shattered! I'm getting those replaced but I don't plan on any more than intermittent duty with a filter over the lens!


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## dwminer (Dec 4, 2007)

*"Heat" build up*



dkoong said:


> does anyone's k3500r get REALLLLLY hot??? i ran it continuously from fresh battery to empty to test run time and the thing got so hot i could hardly hold it without a cloth!!


 
When doing static tests most high performance lights can get real warm. The AE24, Warrior K3500R and the Surefire 10X will all get real hot in a static position. In normal use heat is not a problem. When doing static tests I use a small fan directed to the head of the light to cool it down. If you really want to see hot, turn the light on and place it face down. 
Dave


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## Ken J. Good (Dec 4, 2007)

Since I had a pre-production version, I emailed Dave from Fenix-store.com and asked what the differences were.

His response: "The production head starts up a big faster and the reflector is smooth instead of textured".

sharkeeper:
If I am reading you right there is a strong sense of sarcasm in your post.
Don't go postal on me, several folks on another thread asked me for the comparison both in performance and size. I wanted to have a unit in hand to speak first-hand.

I am personally thinking the size, power, form-factor, and price is excellent on this light. It's no skin off of my nose if another light fulfills a niche nicely that needs to be filled. 

Customer chooses.

In fact, when the starter of this thread wanted some pictures of the X1 in hand, I provided them to assist him in making a decision between the Microfire and the Polarion X1. Based on that he went for the Microfire. I am genuinely glad to assist and he is going out there in harms way and needs to make informed decisions that literally could mean the difference between life and death. 

Back to the apparently controversial comparison:

I will ignore this unit's start-up time and also recognize that the reflector has been changed. When I get the new head, I may make my comments on that system then.

From strictly size comparison I have set up a few known lights:

From left to right:

Surefire 2-battery L4 Digital LED
Blackhawk/Night-Ops 2-battery 6-volt Incandescent
Older Surefire 6-battery M6 - w/500 Lumen Lamp Assembly
MicroFire - Warrior III - 35-watt HID
Polarion X1 - 35 watt HID







Reverse order from the front:





Height Comparison:





Not a whole lot of comments necessary. Each light is designed for a specific purpose and would fulfill different requirements in my mind.

As far as heat is concerned, a Polarion PH40 (last 2" of bezel) gets to 180 degrees Fahrenheit (at the 60 minute mark) when left in a static position in constant ON is a 78 degree ambient temp. The body will rise to 105 degrees over the same 60 minute period. From there the temp stabilizes.

Take it outside and move it around a bit, lower the ambient temp a bit and you have a dramatically different curve. I was talking to one of the engineers that was part of the Gladius LED design team and let him know what my minute by minute temp curve was on various parts of the light. He told me that in static position with static air, a thermal blanket will form around the light, insulating it even more from dissipating the heat. I simply don't know one way or the other. Bottom line is gets HOT.


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## MikeLip (Dec 4, 2007)

If there is anything that would induce me to buy a Polarion, it would be the attitude of this guy! Wow! This isn't my thread, but thanks for all the info you've contributed to it!


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## pete7226 (Dec 4, 2007)

Ken, your comments about the output comparison make me want to get the Polarion even more, hopefully the pre-production 30 watter that will debut at SHOT will make it into production some time next year. Based on your observations I'm sure it will still be brighter than the K3500, even at 5 less watts. Ultimately, I'll probably end up buying both of these lights, with the K3500 going to work everyday, and the Polarion in the Squads trunk incase I need "serious" light. Can't wait for your beamshots. The K3500 from the pass around should arrive today or tomorrow depending on how slow USPS is and I'll post my observations.


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## LED61 (Dec 4, 2007)

No doubt they are lights in different classes almost, but I can see how a police officer could carry a K3500 and not a Polarion.


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## Ken J. Good (Dec 4, 2007)

Because you asked:

Football Field for Calibration - Goal Post to Goal Post (120 yards)

Images in this set ~ f/5.6 - 5 sec - ISO 100 - 45mm Focal Length
http://polarion-media.com/images/Dark-Field1.jpg - Control Image
http://polarion-media.com/images/Football-Field-Polarion-PH40.jpg - Polarion PH40
http://polarion-media.com/images/Football-Field-Polarion-X1.jpg - Polarion X1
http://polarion-media.com/images/Football-Field-Micro3500.jpg - Microfire Warrior III 3500 proto with stippled reflector
http://polarion-media.com/images/Football-Field-SFM6.jpg - Surefire M6 with 500 lumen Incandescent Lamp

Images in this set ~ f/5.6 - 5 sec - ISO 100 - 46mm Focal Length
http://polarion-media.com/images/Out-Building-Control.jpg - Control Image
http://polarion-media.com/images/Out-Building-Polarion-PH40.jpg
http://polarion-media.com/images/Out-Building-Polarion-X1.jpg
http://polarion-media.com/images/Out-Building-Micro3500.jpg

Images in this set ~ f/5.6 - 5 sec - ISO 100 - 45mm Focal Length
http://polarion-media.com/images/Side-Building-Control.jpg - Control Image
http://polarion-media.com/images/Side-Building-Polarion-PH40.jpg
http://polarion-media.com/images/Side-Building-Polarion-X1.jpg
http://polarion-media.com/images/Side-Building-Micro3500.jpg


Image in this set ~ f/5.6 - 5 sec - ISO 400 - 82mm Focal Length
Distance determined with Laser Range Finder

http://polarion-media.com/images/300yards-to-Building.jpg - Polarion PH40


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## HIDSGT (Dec 4, 2007)

Wow Ken! Awesome. Thanx for sharring. The difference between the P40 and X1 compared to the Microfire 3500 is night and day. 

The Polarian is just a far superior light for sure. No doubt about it! For me it was a personal decision based on my profession and the fact that I could fit it in my back pocket. 

I did a track with one of our K9 officers 2nite after a robbery and my MF 3500 was pretty awesome I must say. It made other officers lights just vanish when mine was anywhere near the direction they were shinning. My officers could not believe how bright it was. I cant even imagine what the P40 or X1 would have looked like on the track thru backyards of houses. Im sure it would be breathtaking!

BTW, great comparison out on the field. For personal use at home or going out into the woods the MF is just no match. Your right tho they are simply two different lights and you really can't compare the two. And there is no way the Polarian P40 is only 500 lumens brighter. That is just a joke. I would say closer to twice as bright as my MF 3500. But must of what I do is at a distance of less then 50-75 feet but still there is no comparison. I would have to say that my MF 3500 seems brighter then the one ur comparing but maybe it's not?

I as well as many other board member appreciate your honesty and time you took to compare the three lights. Once again, price was not the deciding factor for me it was simply size. I really look foward to Polarian comming out with something smaller and more practical for every day law enforcement use. I will be sure to purchase from you when that time comes.

But I must say I am very happy with my MF 3500 and is really all one will ever need when approaching a vehicle at night on a motor vehicle stop. I always approach from the passenger side when I stop a car for a traffic violation and just click the MF 3500 on (which is what I like about the one-click switch) and point it flush against my chest as I walk around my crusier. When I reach the vehicle I have stopped it is bright enough to where no one could look directly into the light without going blind momentarily so I find that people just look at me to my left or right and it gives me a tactical advantage. So I guess a quicker start-up would definately be an advantage but once again its brighter immediately at start-up then any other light I have owned so to say that the start-up time takes too long for some would depend on its application. Thanx again.


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## Ken J. Good (Dec 4, 2007)

Hey,

Thanx and no problem.

Yes the larger Polarion's pretty much took it to the MF, but that was to be expected. Here's the deal. These are digital photographic images and they really don't capture what your eye sees. The actual to the eye difference is not quite as dramatic.
I will say, I am going to fly the BS flag at least at 1/2 mast on the 3,500 lumens claim on the MF....Maybe, but I doubt it.

I am finding out that in most circumstances the camera setting of f/5 for 5 seconds 100-400 ISO is a reasonable facsimile of the light levels your eye sees.

In my view the MF did better that it appeared in the images. It would be a very useful light in a bunch of roles. It clearly outperformed the SF M6, but it just took to long to fire up. Remember I have the slower reving proto right now.

I am hoping that Polarion's smaller light matches the pedigree of it's bigger brothers and the we will be cooking with gas!

I like this MF and won't be giving it back....


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## HIDSGT (Dec 5, 2007)

Or, the Polarian is brighter then advertised. I mean the X1 at 3200 lumens still appears twice as bright as the my Microfire 3500. Is there anyway for you to measure the lumen output for each light? That would be interesting...:thumbsup:


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## Patriot (Dec 5, 2007)

Very impressive pictures. Thank you Ken. I used the K3500 over the weekend and have about 5 hours on it now. Just like you mentioned the start-up time to full power is a good 25-30 seconds. The greatest difference that I notice between your pics and my K3500 is the throw. The smooth reflectored WarriorIII actually throws quite well and appears to be on par with the Xenide 25W. It is not as bright as the 3200 lumen X990 and I'm guessing that the 3500 is in the 2600 lumen realm. Admittedly, the 3500 does have a very bluish beam but I have the feeling that the bulb is breaking-in a bit. I've noticed that the flickering went away after about 2-3 hours of use and it also seems that the bluish color has reduced somewhat the more that I use it. All in all I felt that the K3500 over-delivered in a few areas while not doing so well in some other areas. Of course, the Polarion lights speak for themselves and they ought to considering the price. I'm eagerly awaiting to see what's in the future for Polarion.


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## dwminer (Dec 5, 2007)

Ken a quick question, what is the beam angle of the Polarian X1. I could not find it listed on the Polarion web site.
Thanks Dave


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## Ken J. Good (Dec 5, 2007)

It's on the Spec Sheet in PDF format. I will put it on the product descriptions so it is easier to locate.


Collimated Light: 3 Degrees
Uncollimated: 20 Degrees


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## Eric242 (Dec 5, 2007)

The difference is unbelieveable! I knew those chinese lumens wouldn´t be accuarte but I surely didn´t expect that. Wow.

Eric


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## LED61 (Dec 5, 2007)

Ken J. Good said:


> Hey,
> 
> Thanx and no problem.
> 
> ...


 
I totally agree with ken on the BS flag for 3500 lumens.

A philips, GE, or Osram Sylvania D2 capsule (these are the top HID bulb manufacturers) driven at 35W is rated at 3200 bulb lumens and 4100K color temperature.

The same D2 capsule in "cool blue" or Philips ultinon bulb for 6000K color is rated at 2600 to 2800 bulb lumens.

Now it is possible to OVERDRIVE a D2 bulb to the 50W area and get the Polarion performance coupled with the works, but there is no way a 7000K color bulb like the MF is going to put out the claimed lumens.

MF would have to go to a quality D2 bulb with lower color temp and overdrive it beyond the 35W to get anywhere near the 3500 lumens.


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## capt_hooks (Dec 5, 2007)

I got mine in today, I am charging it and giving a run tonight. I know it is not a polarion, but I never expected it to be for the price. Hopefully it will do what I need. If not I will be looking in to the polarion.


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## Patriot (Dec 5, 2007)

capt_hooks said:


> I got mine in today, I am charging it and giving a run tonight. I know it is not a polarion, but I never expected it to be for the price. Hopefully it will do what I need. If not I will be looking in to the polarion.



Your won't be disappointed.


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## Ken J. Good (Dec 5, 2007)

Took a few more images tonight trying to capture the Polarion PH40 from a bunch of different angles at the field.

I will post those in another thread.

Before I left, I did one more Polarion & Microfire side-by-side.

Images in this set ~ f/5.6 - 4.0s - ISO 400 - 82mm
I reduced the exposure time by 20% as this seemed the closest representation of what my eye was seeing.

http://polarion-media.com/images/Polarion_PH40_HID_FootballField.jpg
http://polarion-media.com/images/MicroFire_3500_HID_FootballField.jpg


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## HIDSGT (Dec 5, 2007)

Ken I would say that image is more of an accurate representation of the Polarian vs. the Microfire. In that image You can definately see that the Polarian is much brighter but it dosent look twice as bright now. Maybe 1 1/2 times as bright...lol. 

The Mircofire looks quite bright in that image and is more of what I see when I use mine. But man that Polarian is just insane! It makes me still want one after seeing images like that. That thing is just awesome!

Btw Ken, when you turn the PH40 on how long before it reaches full power. I know it dosent take as long as the MF to completely warm up but how long would you say before it reaches full brightness? And how does the P40 compare to the X1 as far as startup time? 

Ken could show a picture of all (3) lights lined up against each other? The PH40, X1, and MF 3500? That would be great and would give a better perspective of each one in relation to each other. Thanx!


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## LED61 (Dec 5, 2007)

I own a MF 24W. If my figures are correct-roughly speaking we are talking about 2500 bulb lumens for the MF and about 4,000 to 4,300 bulb lumens for the Polarion.


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## HIDSGT (Dec 5, 2007)

LED61 said:


> I own a MF 24W. If my figures are correct-roughly speaking we are talking about 2500 bulb lumens for the MF and about 4,000 to 4,300 bulb lumens for the Polarion.


 
Just out of curiosity how are you coming up with those figures? They sound about right but how are you determining that?


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## Ken J. Good (Dec 6, 2007)

HIDSGT: The Polarion's are instant strike. The only thing you will get is a 5 second "settling" of the gas in the lamp. If fact the Polarion ramps down in power after it is initially struck. You can strike and re-strike at will. 

Okay here is the in-home, low-budget video. After I saw your question, I went and got an X1 sitting outside in my garage. Pulled it out of the case, put it on my desk. Set up the camera and started filming. The initial strike you will see the "overdrive" and the intense hot spot formed. Then the light is regulated back a bit as the lamp/gas settle and come to full operating temp. Then I turn it ON/OFF, ON/OFF, ON/OFF. Remember the video camera is metering so it's not totally true to form. Bottom line, you don't get the old school HID "warm-up". 

http://polarion-media.com/videos/Polarion-Instant-Strike.mov
(Quicktime 1.5 Meg)

Back to the still images:
I am trying to capture images that most accurately represent what is coming out of the light as opposed to the surrounding light sources.

Sometimes the surroundings get underexposed or overexposed to one degree or another, but the light from the HID is what I am trying to replicate (as I think my eye saw it).

I am already noticing from night to night (moisture content, temp) that what I think I am seeing and what appears on the digital image will vary from session to session. Couple that with my relative lack of experience in photography and you are going to get some variance.

But there is another factor that I have to consider. A friend of mine sent me a fairly detailed post about how my eye is constantly adjusting even from light to light and time to time. His point was, your eye is constantly metering and adjusting. The camera on a manual setting is not supposed to present any large degree of variance.

That being said, I noted something tonight.

One of the images I took in full manual was a control image of what the field looked like in the dark. The image did not record the mountains in the distant background, nor did I expect to see them post the exposure.

5 seconds later, I turned a PH40 situated approx 150 yards away almost directly at the unmoved camera....That image taken with the exact same full manual settings had a different background exposure....You could clearly see the outline of the mountains....Okay...Why is that?

Take a look here:
http://polarion-media.com/images/Football-Field-PH40120507-5.jpg

And then this:
http://polarion-media.com/images/Football-Field-PH40120507-6.jpg

It may be a sensor issue. The electronic sensor is reacting different when there is direct light on it of this magnitude? I don't see this when I am shooting from behind the light. I would be very interested to find out why this occurs. So I am going to do some experiments and some inquiries or some high-speed/low-drag photography can chime in and school me!


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## dudemar (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi Ken,

Quick question, are Polarion lights measured in _bulb_ lumens or _torch_ lumens?

Thanks,

Dudemar

PS- I know it's OT, but are you an anime/Kenshin fan?


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## MikeLip (Dec 6, 2007)

Ken J. Good said:


> It may be a sensor issue. The electronic sensor is reacting different when there is direct light on it of this magnitude? I don't see this when I am shooting from behind the light. I would be very interested to find out why this occurs. So I am going to do some experiments and some inquiries or some high-speed/low-drag photography can chime in and school me!



If this was film, there is a technique called pre-flashing. What happens is you give the frame a very brief, even exposure which is below that needed to form a usable image. In general you use a diffuser cap over your lens. Then the next exposure builds on top of the pre-flash. This does two things; it reduces contrast a bit, and it makes the film appear a bit more sensitive.

I suspect the same thing is happening with the sensor - the light from your exposure is adding to the background (mountains) bringing the exposure to the level that you can actually see them. Interesting.


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## LED61 (Dec 6, 2007)

HIDSGT said:


> Just out of curiosity how are you coming up with those figures? They sound about right but how are you determining that?


 
The most trusted figures and starting point are the OEM D2 35 watt specifications, they are:

3200 bulb lumens and 4100K OEM D2 and
2600 bulb lumens and 6000K Ultinon Philips D2.

As color temperature goes up, lumens go down. The MF 35 watt 7000K bulb must therefore be below the Ultinon so I have conservatively given it 2500 bulb lumens, but this may still be too high.

The Polarion uses a lower color temperature bulb and is overdriven I believe to 40 watts or higher, so it has to be above the 3200 lumens and possibly close to 4000 bulb lumens.

Microfire could add lots of points to its light had it used a quality OEM 35 Watt D2 envelope with a quality ballast. It would still not be on par with the Polarion unless they made it bigger. With a D2 envelope you need a bigger and deeper reflector. There is always a give and a get.

But the MF 35W looks to be a great light for its size, so enjoy yours!!


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## BVH (Dec 6, 2007)

I still cannot understand the business decision to use any HID lamp over 5,000K in flashlight usage. If the MF used a 4200 - 5000K lamp, I'd buy one in a flash. Geeze, spend a few more dollars on a good lamp and pass the cost on.


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## LED61 (Dec 6, 2007)

BVH said:


> I still cannot understand the business decision to use any HID lamp over 5,000K in flashlight usage. If the MF used a 4200 - 5000K lamp, I'd buy one in a flash. Geeze, spend a few more dollars on a good lamp and pass the cost on.


 

BVH, R&D on such a lamp does not come cheap. Philips spent a fortune in R&D for the D2S OEM car HID capsule and was justified for a huge market. Producing a smaller, long life quality HID bulb of such a low color temperature is very hard. And if they used existing D2 capsules they´d have to build a bigger reflector to house it like the Crocodile or Polarion. The light would lose its small size, and it would be costlier. 

So they just use a smaller cheaper bulb and overdrive it to 35 watts, like Polarion and XeVision overdrive their quallity lamps to 40-50 watts.


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## BVH (Dec 6, 2007)

But in this case, their overdriving of their lamp does not result in a color temp anywhere near the mid 4000's. The Amondotech N30 is a cheap HID light and it utiilzes a small, approx 4200K lamp and it's reflector size is probably 4"(?). I'd guess the mid 4000K lamp is already "out there" that Microfire could buy that would work in the smaller reflector.


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## LED61 (Dec 6, 2007)

If such a 35 watt bulb exists I´m with you, i don´t know what they are waiting for. Higher color temp will always mean lower lumens at a given wattage. The quality of the salts inside dictate color temperature. But you know how the marketing of cheap chinese HID bulbs goes--all hype claiming up to nonsense "12,000K", which you and I know does not exist, but somehow the high color temperature "cool blue" look sells. Maybe they just passed this on to flashlights.


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## HIDSGT (Dec 6, 2007)

LED61 said:


> The most trusted figures and starting point are the OEM D2 35 watt specifications, they are:
> 
> 3200 bulb lumens and 4100K OEM D2 and
> 2600 bulb lumens and 6000K Ultinon Philips D2.
> ...


 
Kool! Thanx.


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## HIDSGT (Dec 6, 2007)

Ken could you find sometime today or tomorrow and show all three lights side by side? Thanx.


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## Ken J. Good (Dec 6, 2007)

I can't get to that right now, but I might in the future.


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## white light (Dec 7, 2007)

Wow guy great info guys.I also have a MF 3500 and am very happy with its performance to dollar cost.But after seeing the beam shots,The Helios will be in my future purchases.:rock:


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## MorpheusT1 (Dec 8, 2007)

Thanks for the Comparison Ken,


I feel a lot better about choosing the Helios over the Microfire now.



Benny


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## insaned (Dec 10, 2007)

Thks for the comparison!
Microfire are nice lights, but compared to the polarion.... :candle:


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## pete7226 (Dec 11, 2007)

I just finished checking out the K3500 and sent it on its way, I'll just cut and paste my review from the Passaround thread:
I'm glad I was able to participate in this passaround. Playing with this light for a few days helped me towards deciding that I won't be buying it. While the output was good, not great, I was generally a little under whelmed overall from what I expected 3500 lumens or anything close to that to look like. The throw, which is what I needed this light for is lacking, additionally, the bluish color takes even more away from the advertised output. Even if it had the advertised output, the color temperature is not a desirable one, and makes it difficult to identify objects that are even slightly obscured by bushes for example at even medium distances. On a positive note, the light seemed robust, although I wasn't too crazy about the focusing method. Twist it too much, and you might accidentally lose the lens. The price is O.K. I guess, but for about the same cost or less you could put together a light as bright or brighter thats smaller, lighter, and has a much nicer bulb temperature. That being said, I would much rather get the K2000 which is slightly less bright but throws farther and is about $100 cheaper. As far as a serious Hid, this light falls short. I'll be saving for an X1. Cheers.


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## ampdude (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm also very interested in the compact HID's in the 3500R/M6 size range, but I won't be jumping aboard either until we start seeing 4200K bulbs.


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## dkoong (Dec 11, 2007)

i would tend to agree with pete7226

i found exactly what he said. in one word - underwhelmed (i suppose the hype and expectation made it that much worse!)

the throw isnt as good as i thought and the temp of the light is not that good. 

certainly it is well made and would crack some skulls if one wished to use it in that way! 

though for the price.... it is a very good light.


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## BVH (Dec 11, 2007)

Hopefully, the manufacturer is listening to bulb temp preferences voiced here. As we become more educated in HID, it seems we tend to favor the 4xxxK temp bulbs.


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## Patriot (Dec 11, 2007)

dkoong said:


> i would tend to agree with pete7226
> 
> i found exactly what he said. in one word - underwhelmed (i suppose the hype and expectation made it that much worse!)
> 
> ...




Just out of curiosity, are you referring to the pass around or did you just receive your own light. I was just wondering because I noticed that the pass around has a very frosted reflector. My light has a smooth and fairly polished reflector and it throws very well. It illuminates powerline towers pretty well at 300 yards. I was pleasantly surprised by the K3500 because my expectations were low for this light. In my case, I'd say the light was a bit better that I expected.


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## dkoong (Dec 11, 2007)

no i wasnt referring to the passaround

i received my own light. it looks smoother and more polished than the photos i have seen on here.

i had higher expectations i suppose  its all relative

all in all i am happy with it.. just wish i had the 2k so spend on a helios!!!!!


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## Patriot (Dec 11, 2007)

dkoong said:


> all in all i am happy with it.. just wish i had the 2k so spend on a helios!!!!!



Same here.....:shrug:


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## dwminer (Dec 12, 2007)

I find the K3500 a great little light. It's under 2 lbs., puts out lots of light, and is easy to carry. My maxabeam weights a ton, the AE is also a good light, but does not have the large bright flood of the K3500. For $360 delivered to my front door, it's a keeper. Replacement parts might be another story. But for now I'm happy. Perhaps if the "helios" were a little lighter or I could get a lighter battery pack for the Maxabeam, but they are both to big to put in my jacket pocket. So for now it's the K3500. 
Weigh of the K3500 is 1lb 13oz, mag is 2D 1lb 9oz.


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## brightnorm (Dec 13, 2007)

HIDSGT said:


> ...If Polarian comes out with their 30 watt I would entertain it...


Is the Polarion 30 W a very compact light, like the Microfire 3500? I'm very happy with the size, configuration and weight of my 3500. 

Brightnorm


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## serious sam (Dec 20, 2007)

How does everyone carry their MF K3500R? I mean with lanyard? or any other holders etc? Any pics and ideas?  By the way as anyone smashed or cracked their front glass lens while carrying their lights? Just curious how abusive this light can take.


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## sharkeeper (Dec 20, 2007)

serious sam said:


> How does everyone carry their MF K3500R? I mean with lanyard? or any other holders etc? Any pics and ideas?  By the way as anyone smashed or cracked their front glass lens while carrying their lights? Just curious how abusive this light can take.



My lens is cracked along with a trashed UV filter. Apparently it cannot take the heat of being run more than a few minutes so if you use filters with these lights be warned! The light's never been knocked about and I holster it if I need to carry it far.

About the parts well that is kind of scary since I just got confirmation that the parts are on the way. OpticsHQ has been great with communicating this with me however the time it takes the get parts is a while (been over a month) so if you think you might bust the light up be sure to carry spare parts! Not a problem for most of us since we carry at least as many lights as we have fingers and toes!


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## Patriot (Dec 20, 2007)

serious sam said:


> How does everyone carry their MF K3500R? I mean with lanyard? or any other holders etc? Any pics and ideas?  By the way as anyone smashed or cracked their front glass lens while carrying their lights? Just curious how abusive this light can take.



No I haven't yet, but it would probably be a good idea for me to order a lens for the light ahead of time. I set my light on a divider wall in my living room and it rolled off and fell to a thin rug about 40 inches. I was lucky that it didn't break glass or dent the bezel. It's still working just fine. I've been running it about 2 hours a weeks on my evening walks. One week I got a 37 minute walk and a 35 minute walk out of it without the battery dieing. I was pretty impressed with that. I'm actually growing fond of the light. It has exceeded my expectations in most categories.


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## brightnorm (Dec 20, 2007)

serious sam said:


> How does everyone carry their MF K3500R? I mean with lanyard? or any other holders etc? Any pics and ideas?


 
I have found two convenient ways to carry it:

1) I modified a Boxer24 holster, cut out the bottom and shortened the holster body, and added a flap extension with velcro. The light plus holster is surprisingly compact and easily belt-carried (though the bottom part of the body is exposed)

2) I also got a regular 3500 holster from OpticsHQ. It's a very nice holster but I actually prefer my modded Boxer holster because it is so compact.



serious sam said:


> By the way as anyone smashed or cracked their front glass lens while carrying their lights? Just curious how abusive this light can take.



I accidently knocked my 3500 off a shelf approx 5 ft high, onto a carpeted floor with no damage at all. Whether the 3500 would have survived a 5' fall fall onto bare wood or concrete is anybody's guess.

Brightnorm


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## brightnorm (Dec 20, 2007)

Patriot36 said:


> ...One week I got a 37 minute walk and a 35 minute walk out of it without the battery dieing. I was pretty impressed with that. I'm actually growing fond of the light. It has exceeded my expectations in most categories.


 
Did you notice any dimming over that period; was the light as bright at the end? Just wondering about its regulation or lack of it.

Brightnorm


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## sharkeeper (Dec 20, 2007)

There is no dimming or any indication of battery pack end of cycle with this light. It just shuts off plunging you into darkness, no different than say using a protected R123 with a P1! If you're working in a place where suddenly losing the light could be a problem make sure you have a spare light within reach as I've learned the hard way.


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## dwminer (Dec 21, 2007)

I put the K3500 on a tripod with a small fan directed at the light to keep temps. down. I used a Meterman in one spot and took a reading every 5 min. for most of the test. The only drop I detected was during the last 2 min. and I could only detect the change with the meter, as I could see no difference with my eyes. I used Duct tape to hold the meter in one place and turned it on and off. 
Dave


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## vee73 (Jan 1, 2008)

Warrior pictures:
http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/julkinen/27z8a+vesa-vee.html


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## HIDSGT (Jan 1, 2008)

vee73 said:


> Warrior pictures:
> http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/julkinen/27z8a+vesa-vee.html


 
Kool pix!:thumbsup:


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## brightnorm (Jan 1, 2008)

I love the small size and light weight of the Warrior and I belt-carry it with ease in a modified Boxer24 holster. (more compact than Warrior holster). A future version with 4200K bulb and instant strike in the same body size and configuration would be a real gem.

Brightnorm,


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## cmacclel (Jan 1, 2008)

Ken I'd bet the Warrior in your possesion would out perform the production model. The reflector in the production model is absolutely horrid. The picture you posted shows a nice reflective "Surefire" stlye orange peel reflector. 

The K3500 I received in the passaround had some cheap looking barely reflective coating that almost looks like hard chrome plating.

Look at my EZnite and K3500 Thread

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/180881

Mac


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## Border (Jan 2, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> Look at my EZnite and K3500 Thread



Hmm, now I want that EZnite again... :naughty:


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## HIDSGT (Jan 2, 2008)

If the Ezlite was rechargeable Id get it in a second but who wants to spend $30 a month in batteries...:thinking: IMHO an hid is utterly useless without a rechargeable battery. Nice construction tho. I do like the lite tho.


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## cmacclel (Jan 3, 2008)

HIDSGT said:


> If the Ezlite was rechargeable Id get it in a second but who wants to spend $30 a month in batteries...:thinking: IMHO an hid is utterly useless without a rechargeable battery. Nice construction tho. I do like the lite tho.



3x R123 plus 1 dummy cell now it's rechargeable plus 100-200 lumens brighter.

Mac


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## HIDSGT (Jan 3, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> 3x R123 plus 1 dummy cell now it's rechargeable plus 100-200 lumens brighter.
> 
> Mac


 
Whats the run time on it? At 1-200 lumens brighter what would that put it at? Whats a dummy cell? Ur saying they sell rechargeable r123's?


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## cmacclel (Jan 3, 2008)

HIDSGT said:


> Whats the run time on it? At 1-200 lumens brighter what would that put it at? Whats a dummy cell? Ur saying they sell rechargeable r123's?




Yes Rechargeable 123 size cells. Fully charged they are 4.2v, you can only use 3 cells with the 10w ballast thats installed in the EzNite. 

Runtime would be around 30-40 minutes.

Dummy Cells can be purchased I believe from AW here in the forums.

Mac


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## dudemar (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah the ENzite... oops I mean EZnite is a pretty cool light.

Dudemar


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## Patriot (Jan 3, 2008)

HIDSGT said:


> If the Ezlite was rechargeable Id get it in a second but who wants to spend $30 a month in batteries...:thinking: IMHO an hid is utterly useless without a rechargeable battery. Nice construction tho. I do like the lite tho.



How about running 4x 3.0V RCR123s and get the benefit of increased run-time vs. 3x 3.6-4.2V RCR123s plus dummy cell.
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1158


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## dwminer (Jan 4, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> How about running 4x 3.0V RCR123s and get the benefit of increased run-time vs. 3x 3.6-4.2V RCR123s plus dummy cell.
> http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1158


 
Those are unprotected cells and need to be watched closely.
Dave


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## Patriot (Jan 5, 2008)

dwminer said:


> Those are unprotected cells and need to be watched closely.
> Dave



They might be fine in that light as it would shut off before drawing them down too much.


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## brightnorm (Jan 6, 2008)

When I compared the Warrior's proprietary battery pack with the Boxer's 3x18650 cartridge I became concerned about this:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/180348

Brightnorm


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## Patriot (Jan 6, 2008)

brightnorm said:


> When I compared the Warrior's proprietary battery pack with the Boxer's 3x18650 cartridge I became concerned about this:
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/180348
> 
> Brightnorm



After some reading up about current Li-ion batteries it seems that they're building them with a bit more longevity. With any luck I'll get 4 or 5 years out of this proprietary pack since I seem to get good battery life out of everything else I own. I hope that in five years we have some new technology out there which gives us new chemistries since Li-ion still leaves a lot to be desired.


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## brightnorm (Jan 6, 2008)

I wish there was a way to know whether batteries in a proprietary pack are the longer-lasting ones.

BN


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## vee73 (Jan 19, 2008)

Great!
Now I can buy Microfire Lights My own country, and very low price.
http://jomatig.fi/osc/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/211


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## vee73 (Jan 20, 2008)

Warrior III vs. My car light. 
http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/julkinen/286fv+vesa-fikkari-vsautonvalot.html


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## Border (Jan 20, 2008)

vee73: Very nice pictures!

This is probably the kind of comparison that most people (also non-CPFers) can relate to. Guess it will make everyone crave for their own hand-held HID...


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## vee73 (Jan 21, 2008)

Border said:


> vee73: Very nice pictures!
> 
> This is probably the kind of comparison that most people (also non-CPFers) can relate to. Guess it will make everyone crave for their own hand-held HID...


 
Thanks! Yes maybe


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## kodi (Mar 7, 2008)

vee73: can you make a photo of the reflector in your K3500 please?


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## vee73 (Mar 7, 2008)

kodi said:


> vee73: can you make a photo of the reflector in your K3500 please?


 
Yes, please take a look here is many pictures:
Pictures is top of page.
http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/julkinen/28g4z+vesa-microfire-esittely.html

I have 2 peace Warrior III both is totally difference reflector.
I hope that helps you?


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## kodi (Mar 31, 2008)

Yes, thank you.

I had the same story - my first two were with smooth reflector, third one (bought in January) has this "frosty" reflector.
Unfortunately, the later ones are not as precise as the first series, so even vacuum alu covering is not a full solution. There is almost no possibility to smooth the surface mechanically either - reflector is not made from pure alu. 
If anyone knows, where can I buy smooth reflector for Warrior III - please, drop me a PM. I asked how much for making custom one - and the price was usually between 250 and 600$


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## vee73 (Apr 29, 2008)

Hello everybody,I have noticed that Polarion filters fit also Microfire very
well.
Now I can use more qualified filters with my Microfire, and I do not have to
buy separate filters to both of the lamps.
http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/mediaobjects/orig/pub/2008/04/29/8143010478538456018orig.jpg

http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/mediaobjects/orig/pub/2008/04/29/8143010478538456025orig.jpg

http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/mediaobjects/orig/pub/2008/04/29/8143010478538456045orig.jpg

http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/mediaobjects/orig/pub/2008/04/29/8143010478538455997orig.jpg


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## Patriot (Apr 29, 2008)

That's very interesting Vee73.

What is the adapter piece that interfaces between the Polarion filter and the K3500?


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## vee73 (Apr 29, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> That's very interesting Vee73.
> 
> What is the adapter piece that interfaces between the Polarion filter and the K3500?


 
Do You mean this?
http://www.powerleds.de/shop/produc...icrofire-Warrior-K1-Rotlichtfilter-600nm.html

http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/mediaobjects/orig/pub/2008/04/03/8143010478537455459orig.jpg

It is Microfire filter rubber. I remove the glass.


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## Patriot (Apr 29, 2008)

vee73 said:


> Do You mean this?
> http://www.powerleds.de/shop/produc...icrofire-Warrior-K1-Rotlichtfilter-600nm.html
> 
> http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/mediaobjects/orig/pub/2008/04/03/8143010478537455459orig.jpg
> ...




Ok, I understand now. Thanks Vee. That's a good idea and I happen to own both lights. 

Thanks


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## toby_pra (Apr 30, 2008)

This PH40 is still friggin bright, muchg more than the KR3500...


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## Patriot (Apr 30, 2008)

It sure is, I took these last night:

K3500 468 yards






PH40 468 yards


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## HIDSGT (May 2, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> It sure is, I took these last night:
> 
> K3500 468 yards
> 
> ...


 
I would classify the difference between the new PH50 and the PF40 as distinct as the difference between the MF 3500 and the PF40. That PH50 is amazing and appears to dwarf the PF40 IMO. Again, it's just too dam big tho. Hopefully the smaller Polarian will hit the market soon.


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## Patriot (May 2, 2008)

I'm also very eager for any news release about the smaller Polarion. I like the X1 a lot but it's pretty fat around the body. It seems that with the X1 they just took the PH series length and squashed it, converting it to diameter. That fine and it is and option, I'm just looking for something a little bit different. I just realized that I'm getting off subject though because this is a K3500 thread. 

Oops....


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