# P60 module dimensions?



## wquiles (Jan 5, 2012)

I am trying to do a project using the now universal P60 module, but although I can find lots of P60 modules and hosts, I have not been able to find a site/link that has the actual dimensions for the P60 module, with enough information to actually make one in a lathe/mill/etc..

I have searched and found good "generic" information so far:
P60 drop ins

P60 hosts

P60 Wiki


The best information I have been able to find so far is this:
Bezel diameter: 26.5mm
Copper base diameter: 19mm
Height including support spring: 36.7mm
Height excluding support spring: 28.8mm

But as a machinist would tell you, that is not enough to make one, specially details such as the angle on the reflector (that matches the P60 host), etc. 

I have a couple of P60 modules, but before I measure/reverse engineer them, I figured I would first try to find actual drawings - can anyone please help?

Will


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## precisionworks (Jan 5, 2012)

IMO the easiest approach is to measure the ID at the very front on the tube & measure the ID at the bottom of the tapered socket, then measure the distance between top & bottom & you'll have the info needed to calculate the angle. I imagine you have a few 6P bodies (or clones) laying around


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## brandocommando (Jan 5, 2012)

I have Malkoff, Oveready triple, and VanIsle quad modules, as well as Solaroforce, FM, and Surefire hosts. I have a nice set of digital calipers that I use for reloading also. I know this is not much help, but just LMK if you want any measurements off of any of this stuff...


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## wquiles (Jan 5, 2012)

I got a couple of P60 modules and hosts, and I can make my own measurements as well, but I wanted to first try to find the documentation on these - kind of hard to believe that we have a "standard" module/host but no detailed documentation on it


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## gadget_lover (Jan 5, 2012)

I thought the p60 was a surefire design, and that all of the derivations were based on measurements of random samples. If true, only Surefire can tell you what their tolerances are.

It gets interesting when you start trying to make a part that will fit in a host that was built to use a copy of a drop-in whose dimensions were copied from someone else's design to fit someone else's host.

I recall a few years back when a batch of 'e' tailcaps from McGizmo were found to work on only some lights. It was unclear which was out of spec, the light or the tailcaps.

Daniel


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## Kestrel (Jan 5, 2012)

Regarding *host dimensions*, I put these together a couple of years ago from measuring up a few of my SF's, the measurements were pretty consistent across my modern C-series hosts. I imagine my older Z's might be a bit different, but that's about it.











The variations were pretty tight from host to host, from what I could measure; ~ +-0.002" max from my spot checks, IIRC. Again, I only checked a few of their more modern hosts.

BTW *D1* in sketch #1 and *D1* & *D2* in the second were pretty difficult to get, but after some effort I was pretty confident with them to within ~0.001" or so.

I also did a full set of measurements on the SolarForce version - many of the internal dimensions were notably different.


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## brandocommando (Jan 5, 2012)

Wow.:bow:


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## precisionworks (Jan 5, 2012)

Nice job, Kestrel


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## wquiles (Jan 5, 2012)

gadget_lover said:


> I thought the p60 was a surefire design, and that all of the derivations were based on measurements of random samples. If true, only Surefire can tell you what their tolerances are.


Good points Daniel - I am sure there is a lot of variability in all of the parts out there that claim to be P60-compatible :devil:



brandocommando said:


> Wow.:bow:





precisionworks said:


> Nice job, Kestrel


+1


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## precisionworks (Jan 6, 2012)

Elzetta designed their lights specifically to house the Malkoff module & my guess is that those run toward the minimum dimension for better heat transfer. It would be interesting to see how those compare with SF.


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## wquiles (Jan 6, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> Elzetta designed their lights specifically to house the Malkoff module & my guess is that those run toward the minimum dimension for better heat transfer. It would be interesting to see how those compare with SF.



I have a Malkoff module on order, but from what I can tell in pictures, Malkoff decided to forgo matching the "angle", and have the module rest on the lip of the outer body/edge, and then make the fit between the dia of the module and the ID of the body as good as possible to improve heat transfer, which is different than most/all other modules that depend on the angle on the reflector to achieve contact/alignment with the body - that to me makes a lot more sense, and basically eliminate minute differences in the angle from host to host, therefore making for a better thermal transfer among many/various hosts. Very clever


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## Kestrel (Jan 7, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> Nice job, Kestrel


Thanks guys, hope it helps.


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## wquiles (Jan 13, 2012)

OK guys, I "officially" request that you please take measurements of your host and P60 modules, to "compare notes" :devil:

As I expected, things are all over the place 

Here are my own quick measurements today - pardon the hand-drawn, crude diagrams.

The 3x hosts and 2x modules to check out:






And my quick measurements on the 2x modules:
















Then measuring the "middle" ID of each host:











So, what do your P60 modules and hosts measure?

Will


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## wquiles (Jan 15, 2012)

I am not asking for super-duper details - just the outside diameters at various points in the P60 modules would be very helpful, as well as the single ID on the hosts (any/all hosts, but specially the SF hosts) 

Will


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## gadget_lover (Jan 15, 2012)

Would you believe that I don't have any p60 hosts to measure? I don't know why. My only surefires are an L1 and an L 5.

Daniel


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## BVH (Jan 15, 2012)

gadget_lover said:


> Would you believe that I don't have any p60 hosts to measure? I don't know why. My only surefires are an L1 and an L 5.
> 
> Daniel



You sound like an Orthopedic Surgeon!


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## precisionworks (Jan 16, 2012)

Every manufacturer who copied SureFire started by measuring SF's dimensions (both inside the head & outside the P60 lamp assembly). Measuring every host made will yield a confusing assortment of dimensions because some manufacturers use sharp tooling, newer machine tools, have QC checks, and stay close to target dimensions. Other makers don't have the tooling or machine tools or QC checks & they will tend to run big ... or small ... or right in the middle ...

You'll spend a lot less time if you use Plan A & pick one drop in like the Malkoff and design the host around those dimensions - that's exactly what Elzetta did to get a size-on-size fit. Plan B is to find the largest drop in made & design around those dimensions. Plan C involves finding the smallest host.

Plan A is certainly the most cost effective.


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## wquiles (Jan 16, 2012)

gadget_lover said:


> Would you believe that I don't have any p60 hosts to measure? I don't know why. My only surefires are an L1 and an L 5.
> 
> Daniel



No worries. What is the ID on the L5? I wonder how closely it compares to mine


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## wquiles (Jan 16, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> Every manufacturer who copied SureFire started by measuring SF's dimensions (both inside the head & outside the P60 lamp assembly). Measuring every host made will yield a confusing assortment of dimensions because some manufacturers use sharp tooling, newer machine tools, have QC checks, and stay close to target dimensions. Other makers don't have the tooling or machine tools or QC checks & they will tend to run big ... or small ... or right in the middle ...
> 
> You'll spend a lot less time if you use Plan A & pick one drop in like the Malkoff and design the host around those dimensions - that's exactly what Elzetta did to get a size-on-size fit. Plan B is to find the largest drop in made & design around those dimensions. Plan C involves finding the smallest host.
> 
> Plan A is certainly the most cost effective.



I suspect that will be the case, but I am not talking about buying all of those hosts/pills, nor measuring every host/pill combo ever made (I agree it is not worth it). I just want to learn about the stuff "we" the members here in the forum have. I "still" would like to know the ID of the SureFire hosts (you particularly handle a LOT of these lately), and other drop-in modules (including the popular Oveready), to know the aproximate "range" 

Will


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## Blindasabat (Jan 16, 2012)

I measured what I have on me right now, a G2 that I keep in the car wth a Titanium Innovations D1000 by NeoFab.

The D1000 has a brass body like a Malkoff, but has a longer taper from the front rim diameter to the main body diameter: All H dimensions taken from the front as a datum.Length of brass body=29.00mm without contact spring; Bezel rim diam= 26.45-26.50mm; Rim extends 2.7mm from the front then tapers down by H=5.1mm from front (tapers between H= 2.7 and 5.1mm). Main body is 22.04-22.06mm diam(22.17 with an adhesive label that covers 45% of circumference); The ~22.05mm diam body extends to H=17.35mm from front before tapering down to 18.45-18.46Diam at 25.5mm from front. It is 18.45-18.46 from H=25.5 to the end at 29mm total length. The contact spring is ~6mm long.

For the G2 I measured the same dimensions as the sketches in Post#6: Top sketch: D3=24.35-24.42mm; H2=8.85mm(0.349"); can't reach D1 with my calipers. The G2 has an intermediate bore of 22.48-22.4mm(~0.886") between the shallow D3 and your D1. H1a=22.5-22.65mmBottom Sketch: D1=23.92mm(0.942mm); No D2 dimension as there is no step there; D3=28.87mm(1.137"); H4=26.83mm(1.057"); No H2; H3=33.45-33.62mm(1.317")

Note: Parting lines from plastic molding add some variation to the G2 Height dimensions.​


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## wquiles (Jan 16, 2012)

Blindasabat said:


> I measured what I have on me right now, a G2 that I keep in the car wth a Titanium Innovations D1000 by NeoFab.
> 
> The D1000 has a brass body like a Malkoff, but has a longer taper from the front rim diameter to the main body diameter: All H dimensions taken from the front as a datum.Length of brass body=29.00mm without contact spring; Bezel rim diam= 26.45-26.50mm; Rim extends 2.7mm from the front then tapers down by H=5.1mm from front (tapers between H= 2.7 and 5.1mm). Main body is 22.04-22.06mm diam(22.17 with an adhesive label that covers 45% of circumference); The ~22.05mm diam body extends to H=17.35mm from front before tapering down to 18.45-18.46Diam at 25.5mm from front. It is 18.45-18.46 from H=25.5 to the end at 29mm total length. The contact spring is ~6mm long.
> 
> ...



Awesome - thanks much for taking the time 






brandocommando said:


> I have Malkoff, Oveready triple, and VanIsle quad modules, as well as Solaroforce, FM, and Surefire hosts. I have a nice set of digital calipers that I use for reloading also. I know this is not much help, but just LMK if you want any measurements off of any of this stuff...


If you still can, I would love to know the basic dimenssions for your parts as well 

Will


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## gadget_lover (Jan 16, 2012)

wquiles said:


> No worries. What is the ID on the L5? I wonder how closely it compares to mine



I should never go from memory. It's an L4, not an L5. 

Inside bore is .681

Dan


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## wquiles (Jan 16, 2012)

gadget_lover said:


> I should never go from memory. It's an L4, not an L5.
> 
> Inside bore is .681
> 
> Dan



No worries Dan. Thanks for checking it out


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## Blindasabat (Jan 17, 2012)

A BOG 150L: All H dimensions taken from the front as a datum.Length of body=33.50mm to the hard contact; Bezel rim diam= 26.40-26.50mm; Rim extends 3.0mm from the front then tapers down by H=7mm from front (tapers between H= 3.0 and 7.0mm). Main body is 21.95-22.00mm diam; The body has a slight taper down to 21.90mm to H=22.0mm from front before a step down to 19.3mm tapering down to 18.32-18.40mmDiam at 27.95-28.0mm from front. It then has a brass screw-in pil that is 16.4-16.42mmD from H=27.95-28.00mm to the end at 32.5mm total length.​


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## wquiles (Jan 18, 2012)

Blindasabat said:


> A BOG 150L: All H dimensions taken from the front as a datum.Length of body=33.50mm to the hard contact; Bezel rim diam= 26.40-26.50mm; Rim extends 3.0mm from the front then tapers down by H=7mm from front (tapers between H= 3.0 and 7.0mm). Main body is 21.95-22.00mm diam; The body has a slight taper down to 21.90mm to H=22.0mm from front before a step down to 19.3mm tapering down to 18.32-18.40mmDiam at 27.95-28.0mm from front. It then has a brass screw-in pil that is 16.4-16.42mmD from H=27.95-28.00mm to the end at 32.5mm total length.​



Awesome - thanks much for the very detailed measurements 

Will


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jan 20, 2012)

Thank you Will for directing me to this very helpful thread.


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## Mattaus (Apr 2, 2012)

Hey all,

I don’t have my own surefire light (yet) but am thinking about machining my own P60 drop in for when it does arrive. I’m doing design work at the moment, but I’m not entirely sure how Surefire bezel attaches to the body tube of the light, and how the P60 fits inside all of this. In my head it would clearly be a straight threaded tube that just threads onto the head end of the tube, but the lip on the Malkoff drop in suggests that the body tube would be as thick as this lip otherwise the lip would get in the way. Is that the case?

I Googled for a cross section of a surefire head assembly and came up with nothing except a SF light I’ve never seen before. Kestrel’s drawings seem to be the ticket but I can’t put 2 and 2 together to figure out how they fit. Is the grey part in the Z44 head/bezel assembly the lens? If so, is the second picture upside down compared to the 6p body above it?

What am I missing/failing to understand here? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

- Matt

EDIT: My super super basic representation of how I think it all goes together:


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## PCC (Apr 2, 2012)

I don't know if this will help or not. The aluminum slug that I've placed in this cutaway section started off at 1", or 25.4mm. It was cleaned up on the lathe so it's a bit under sized at the top widest portion. I know that the top-most bevel is 30 degrees. I'm not sure what the other bevel angle is, but, I'm guessing it's 20 degrees.


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## Mattaus (Apr 2, 2012)

Actually that picture does help a lot. I might alter my design a little because I think my lip may be too big. Thanks PCC.


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## wquiles (Apr 2, 2012)

Mattaus said:


> Actually that picture does help a lot. I might alter my design a little because I think my lip may be too big. Thanks PCC.



In your edited post above, where you have your drawing, you are missing the plastic ring/spacer that goes between the top of Malkoff module (reflector side) and the glass lens. When you screw the head on, that will press the Malkoff module down, until it makes contact on that bevel area or at the top of the body, depending on the P60 host in question. Alternatively, you can use a spring on the bottom of the Malkoff module which then presses up the module until it touches the glass, and the spring tension keeps it in place. Out of these two, only the first one has any significant thermal path from the the module to the body, which is why Malkoff does it that way, and not with a spring.

And as I found out, the variation between host to host and P60 module to P60 module varies "greatly", so it makes mixing and matching not fun 

Will


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## Mattaus (Apr 3, 2012)

Thanks for clearing that up Will - guessing sucks!

I understand how the fit works in regards to forming a thermal path and the advantages of the Malkoff design. But how does the plastic spacer 'adjust' the fit? If it's solid plastic, what happens if it's not the right thickness? Thinking it through in my head the drop in would press hard on the inside the tube as it’s tightened. If the spacer is too thick the head will only screw down so far - this would end up with the light having a gap where the head has clearly not screwed all the way down. Is the plastic spacer compressible, or is it designed specifically for Surefire hosts in mind?

On the flip side, if the spacer is too thin it won’t push it hard enough. I guess the one solid solution that many people seem to use is to wrap the drop in foil to achieve a good middle ground. I am assuming that the bulk of the thermal path would be on the straight sides in the middle of the drop in, not the beveled edges (as can be seen in PCC’s picture above), so a spring based solution would still have an OK thermal path provided the straight edge fit was tight enough.


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## wquiles (Apr 3, 2012)

Mattaus said:


> But how does the plastic spacer 'adjust' the fit? If it's solid plastic, what happens if it's not the right thickness?



The plastic spacer makes sure the module sits against the body, but the negative is that the head then does not screw-in all of the way: there is a visible gap.
I actually like your idea of a compressible spacer - that could work to eliminate the visible gap 

Will


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## Mattaus (Apr 3, 2012)

wquiles said:


> The plastic spacer makes sure the module sits against the body, but the negative is that the head then does not screw-in all of the way: there is a visible gap.
> I actually like your idea of a compressible spacer - that could work to eliminate the visible gap
> 
> Will



How can I make money off this lol?

Seriously though I thought it'd be obvious? Given the insane attention to detail some people around here give to the work they do I thought something like a visible gap would be a massive no-no? 

I'm not sure what material you'd use. You obviously want it to compress vertically, but not too much horizontally so as to not expand further than the I.D. and O.D. of the lip of the drop in. It would also need to be visually appealing and, given the location, probably withstand a decent amount of heat depending on what emitter (and how many) are being utilized. Further more it'd have to be reasonably _resistant_ to compression so as to allow a decent amount of pressure to be applied before it deforms - otherwise there won't be enough downward pressure applied to the drop in for good thermal contact.


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## wquiles (Apr 3, 2012)

Malkoff sells the fitting rings as it is needed on some heads (and not others - that is the LEGO problem!):
http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/fitting-ring-for-surefire-shock-absorbing-head-p-93.html


Will


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