# headlamps that are reliably waterproof?



## robostudent5000 (Jul 8, 2011)

for cavers, divers, paddlers, and others who subject their equipment to lots of water, are there any headlamps which are not specialty made, which you have actually used, and cost less than $200 (soft cap) that were reliably waterproof?

i'm not talking about being able to take a few dunkings either. i'm talking about being able to survive prolonged submersion in turbulent water.


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## Szemhazai (Jul 8, 2011)

Any IPX8 headlamp... Fenix HP-10, Spark ST6-460NW or even Petzl e+LITE


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## gcbryan (Jul 8, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> for cavers, divers, paddlers, and others who subject their equipment to lots of water, are there any headlamps which are not specialty made, which you have actually used, and cost less than $200 (soft cap) that were reliably waterproof?
> 
> i'm not talking about being able to take a few dunkings either. i'm talking about being able to survive prolonged submersion in turbulent water.


 
EOS in a bag? I know its waterproof but the bag would limit the dynamics of the turbulence. Otherwise, using a backup dive light on a general purpose headband is all I can think of.

Edit: Semhazai and I were typing at the same time apparently...I don't know that IPX8 accounts for something like the dynamics of turbulence (could be wrong).

Dive lights rarely fail due to the static pressure (unless grossly under engineered for the environment) but it's the dynamics of moving while under pressure that does it.


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## Bolster (Jul 9, 2011)

Szemhazai said:


> Any IPX8 headlamp... Fenix HP-10, Spark ST6-460NW or even Petzl e+LITE



Szem's right...the IP rating SHOULD tell you what you need to know, unless the manufacturer is simply lying. I have a lot of the IP ratings listed in the Flood Headlamp thread, and always looking to add more. 

IPX6 - Water projected from powerful jets for 3 minutes, no harmful ingress. I've seen this rating called out as "appropriate for use on ship decks." 
IPX7 - No harmful ingress of water up to 1 meter submersion for 30 minutes
IPX8 - No harmful ingress of water beyond 1 meter submersion, "continuous," whatever length of time that means. 

I've seen arguments that IPX6 is "more waterproof" than IPX8, based on intuition that a jet of water must surely be a more rigorous test than immersion. However I don't buy it. I think that immersion is the toughest test. With immersion, if there is a way, the water will find it. That's just how water is!


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## robostudent5000 (Jul 9, 2011)

Szemhazai said:


> Any IPX8 headlamp





Bolster said:


> Szem's right...the IP rating SHOULD tell you what you need to know



uh... thanks for ignoring the parameters of the request guys.:fail: haha...

i still appreciate the feedback, but didn't really need a primer on Ingress Protection Ratings.  also, in case anyone is inclined, don't want to hear what you've heard from others, or what your friend the caver or friend the diver or friend the swift water rescue guy uses and likes. 

looking for real world experience with lights you have personally used in very wet conditions.



gcbryan said:


> EOS in a bag? I know its waterproof but the bag would limit the dynamics of the turbulence. Otherwise, using a backup dive light on a general purpose headband is all I can think of.
> 
> Dive lights rarely fail due to the static pressure (unless grossly under engineered for the environment) but it's the dynamics of moving while under pressure that does it.



i'm dubious about the Eos. i've had water seep into some of mine from dunking them in a bowl with running water. don't know how well they hold up to prolonged submersion with turbulence. 

gcbryan, you go diving, right? what light do you use for that?


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## gcbryan (Jul 9, 2011)

Immersion is a tough test but simple immersion isn't the toughest test (not talking about the listed specs now).

For instance there is immersion to 100 fsw...tie it to a cord and lower it to 100 fsw. There is diving with it at 100 fsw and moving your hands (and it) through the water. That's a tougher test (static vs dynamic) as is bumping into something at 4 ata.

Pressure washing is a separate test. It could be a tougher test but it depends on the product and its failure modes. It's just a different test and it depends on what the pressure is. If it's 1000 psi then that directed part of the spray is more intense at one spot (and very dynamic) than the 58 psi that you would have at 100 fsw.


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## Bolster (Jul 9, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> ... didn't really need a primer on Ingress Protection Ratings...



I know, Robo, but it is a public forum, and you'll have people reading this thread for general waterproof info, hence my post. If I had some real-use data I'd give it up but (sadly) I don't use my headlamps under water. Will be watching for responses, though, interesting question. Carry on.


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## gcbryan (Jul 9, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> uh... thanks for ignoring the parameters of the request guys.:fail: haha...
> 
> i still appreciate the feedback, but didn't really need a primer on Ingress Protection Ratings.  also, in case anyone is inclined, don't want to hear what you've heard from others, or what your friend the caver or friend the diver or friend the swift water rescue guy uses and likes.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, regarding diving. I use a W200 for DX for a backup light. It has a 5mm front lens and only screws together in one place and that has 3 o-rings. There are 3 o-rings around that front lens as well.

For a main dive light I use a handheld that has a magnetic switch and plenty of o-rings for the connection points as well. The main one uses (2) 18650's and a MC-E and the backup uses 3 AA's and a XR-E.

I've taken regular lights (chosen carefully) and have made a few changes and have taken them to 100 fsw so I have experimented a bit with what actually works and with what the failure points are.

If you are talking about river rafting or something like that I think I'd just get one of those headbands that take a regular flashlight and then get a backup dive light which you could find in the right size I think.

Basically just get a twisty light and check/improve the o-rings and maybe add to marine grade silicone around the lens (not necessary for a properly designed light but works nevertheless).


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## odunke01 (Apr 9, 2013)

robostudent5000 said:


> i'm talking about being able to survive prolonged submersion in turbulent water.



Im a swiftwater Technician and have been using a fenix HL21 on my helmet. It has survived at least 30hrs in grade 3 swiftwater in the past few months.

Ideally I would like something potentially with a mix of throw and flood, but for general use it meets my needs for rope work, working around boats at night and for general river work in small enough areas.(Has the flipdown diffuser lens attached)

As a backup I carry in my bag a Pelican Sabrelight and either the fenix LD22 or the Wolfeyes Pro Police for land work/searching etc (although I wouldnt take the Fenix or wolfeyes in the water as im more likely to drop them then a headlight or the sabrelight).


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## uk_caver (Apr 9, 2013)

For what it's worth, Petzl Duos are used a lot by cavers, and they do seem pretty resistant to water.
I believe the first ones had some kind of depth rating, though that later got dropped or sidelined, and some underwater cavers I know took one down to the rated depth (and maybe beyond) without any ill effects.

I'm not sure I've ever seen one which had leaked, and I've opened up a fair few, since I make LED inserts to go inside them.
That said, in general caving use they're only likely to get shallow immersion, and exposure to varying intensities of waterfall.


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## reppans (Apr 11, 2013)

McGizmo on an aftermarket headband?


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## vtunderground (Apr 14, 2013)

I've had good luck with Zebralights in wet conditions (believe it or not).







That's an H600 on my helmet, and there was an SC52 in my pocket at the same time. On a previous trip we clipped the SC52 to the end of a measuring tape, turned it on, and lowered it to the bottom of that pool to see how deep it was. Even at 6' the Zebralight didn't leak.

I've used the PT Eos a lot, and personally trust it to be waterproof (I use one when canoeing at night), but I think I'd trust a Zebralight more for prolonged submersion.

EDIT: Oh, if you don't care about dimness or runtime, I'm pretty sure the Princeton Tec Solo was dive rated to like 500'. I have one with an LED drop-in that keep around as a loaner.


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