# 4 Cree Light !!



## rizky_p (Dec 21, 2007)

it was 3 light for the masses now 4 light in single unit? Check this out, SKU is 10451. I wonder how good is it?

thanks


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Dec 21, 2007)

I couldnt resist buying it, even if theirs no specs.
Now lets hope it produces 600 -800 lumens whithout going


----------



## kwarwick (Dec 21, 2007)

Ordered one too! I've been looking for a light with the potential to be easily modified into a bike light and this one looks good. I like that will run off two 18650 which means I can drive it with 7.2v lithium ion packs without having to find a boast driver.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10452


----------



## swxb12 (Dec 21, 2007)

I like the way Romisens are built. Looks like a good value. I'm sure the beam won't be pretty on the wall, but will be impressive for actual use.


----------



## warrior (Dec 21, 2007)

probably cree P4


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Dec 21, 2007)

I want to see someones opinion of this light. How much brighter is it than the MX Power 3 cree. I have the MX Power and its build quality is just OK. Not on the level of Fenix.
The only thing I dont like about ordering from DX is that it takes so long. Why cant they ship this stuff from China to a warehouse in the US and then ship it to our houses.


----------



## bspofford (Dec 21, 2007)

I orderd one too. Since it runs on 4X16340 or 2X18650, it should also run on 3X16340 with one segment removed from the tube. I have several Romisen lights now, and they're well made.


----------



## oregon (Dec 21, 2007)

ledebuhr1 said:


> Why cant they ship this stuff from China to a warehouse in the US and then ship it to our houses.


 
It appears to me that postage is cheap from China. If mailed from the USA some of their item prices would be dwarfed by USPS postage. 

Once they have a nexus, a warehouse, in the USA they would have local, state and federal income, sales, property and other tax issues.

oregon


----------



## fire-stick (Dec 21, 2007)

warrior said:


> probably cree P4



Assuming there p4's and there being pushed at a decent amperage, how many lumens will this light put out front..?


----------



## Glance2 (Dec 21, 2007)

kwarwick said:


> Ordered one too! I've been looking for a light with the potential to be easily modified into a bike light and this one looks good. I like that will run off two 18650 which means I can drive it with 7.2v lithium ion packs without having to find a boast driver.



I'd also like to use this light for my bike. I am a novice, how would you drive it with Li-ion packs? Is this easy to do? Are there tutorials?


----------



## warrior (Dec 21, 2007)

fire-stick said:


> Assuming there p4's and there being pushed at a decent amperage, how many lumens will this light put out front..?



cree P4 = 160lm @ 1A
160X4 = 640lm :rock:


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Dec 21, 2007)

Oregon,
Dont they have to pay USPS postage once the product enters the US?

I would really like to see beam shots of this thing.

I hope the switch is better than the LOW-STROBE-HIGH that is on the MX Power. That combination is very anoying.


----------



## oregon (Dec 21, 2007)

ledebuhr1 said:


> Oregon,
> Dont they have to pay USPS postage once the product enters the US?


 
I don't know.

It justs seems obvious to me that regular mail out of China must be subsidized somehow when I see the price of delivered goods from the discount Chinese vendors.

oregon


----------



## jasonsmaglites (Dec 21, 2007)

wow, p4s are only 160 lumens at one amp. 
i didn't know q5s were 50% brighter at the same power levels. 
these are bigger jumps than i thought! (the bins i mean)


----------



## saands (Dec 21, 2007)

> I don't know.
> 
> It justs seems obvious to me that regular mail out of China must be subsidized somehow when I see the price of delivered goods from the discount Chinese vendors.
> 
> oregon



I always thought this too ... but then I went to China ... you might be surprized by the actual cost of things over there ... I needed an umbrella when I got caught in a rainstorm and figured that was about the worst possible time to negotiate the price of an umbrella. I saw a street vendor and he offered me one "Here, here, How much you pay?" I was delayed in my answer trying to convert to the local currency when he made the first offer: 6 RMB ... that's $0.75 for a new, functional, collapsible umbrella IN A TORRENTIAL DOWNPOUR ... I bought two without haggling and went on my way ... the point is that the prices might be dwarfed by postage, and it STILL might be a fine business model.

Saands


----------



## johnnymceldoo (Dec 21, 2007)

Well I have the WF-500 3 cree ultafire and a little while ago decided to see what the runtime would be on two 18650's. It made it about 13 minutes and shut down. I can smell something burnt inside the light and lights no longer come on. I dont know if DX will replace it as ive not done too much business with them but I'll be finding out.

Ive got a wolfeyes storm on the way and hopefully it will be more reliable especially since its so expensive.


----------



## LukeA (Dec 21, 2007)

johnnymceldoo said:


> Well I have the WF-500 3 cree ultafire and a little while ago decided to see what the runtime would be on two 18650's. It made it about 13 minutes and shut down. I can smell something burnt inside the light and lights no longer come on. I dont know if DX will replace it as ive not done too much business with them but I'll be finding out.



There's obviously a big-time short in the light.


----------



## johnnymceldoo (Dec 21, 2007)

LukeA said:


> There's obviously a big-time short in the light.



Im not smart enough to find out what the culprit was but i did read a thread here where a handful of guys were having similar problems.

Id be leary about getting the 4 cree light.

My most recent purchase was the ultrafire EMC1 powered by 1 cr123 and its an awesome little light for the money. Runtime is about 30 minutes though on high.


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Dec 21, 2007)

Is there a big cost difference between a P4 and P5 Cree LED? If they wanted to make it as bright as possible, why not use a P5.


----------



## curtis22 (Dec 21, 2007)

ledebuhr1 said:


> Oregon,
> Dont they have to pay USPS postage once the product enters the US?


No.


----------



## chanamasala (Dec 22, 2007)

ledebuhr1 said:


> Is there a big cost difference between a P4 and P5 Cree LED? If they wanted to make it as bright as possible, why not use a P5.



There's the price, availability, and higher voltage requirements to consider with brighter bins. 

This thing is quite the awesome beast. I jumped on it. I wouldn't doubt if they sell(sold) out quickly. I'm already dreaming of holding it and firing it up with my LiFePo4s.

I hope the heatsinking and circuit are robust.


----------



## fire-stick (Dec 22, 2007)

jasonsmaglites said:


> wow, p4s are only 160 lumens at one amp.
> i didn't know q5s were 50% brighter at the same power levels.
> these are bigger jumps than i thought! (the bins i mean)


the bin chart I'm lookin at only gives the lumens @ 350ma. How would I figure lumens for 700ma and an amp? (on the p4's)


----------



## Yenster (Dec 22, 2007)

ledebuhr1 said:


> Is there a big cost difference between a P4 and P5 Cree LED? If they wanted to make it as bright as possible, why not use a P5.


 
I don't believe CREE has a P5 bin. Maybe you meant Q5 bin...which is about 4 dollars more per LED.


----------



## fire-stick (Dec 22, 2007)

yea +1 that, here's a link with prices..

http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/index.php?cPath=48_52_79


----------



## ace0001a (Dec 22, 2007)

warrior said:


> cree P4 = 160lm @ 1A
> 160X4 = 640lm :rock:



From my understanding, a CreeXRE P4 is 160 lumens from the emitter at 700mA. At 1A, the P4 should top out at 210 lumens...and I think they've been increasing at least by 10 or more lumens incrementally with each higher bin...so the Q5 should top out around 250+ lumens at 1A.


----------



## warrior (Dec 22, 2007)

ace0001a said:


> From my understanding, a CreeXRE P4 is 160 lumens from the emitter at 700mA. At 1A, the P4 should top out at 210 lumens...and I think they've been increasing at least by 10 or more lumens incrementally with each higher bin...so the Q5 should top out around 250+ lumens at 1A.



On DX :
Manufacturer Rated 228 Lumens at 1000mA input current:

[*]350mA: 107~114lm
[*]700mA: 171.2~182.4lm
[*]1000mA: 214 ~ 228lm
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394


----------



## ez78 (Dec 22, 2007)

The reflectors on this one are more inefficient compared to the triple cree lights. Quite a lot surface is missing, more spill and less hot spot intensity.


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Dec 22, 2007)

Would the first person that gets this light right a report on how its built and how bright it is.
It doesent tell much about the light on the DX website. If thoes LED's are pulling one amp I dont think the batteries will last long.


----------



## ace0001a (Dec 22, 2007)

warrior said:


> On DX :
> Manufacturer Rated 228 Lumens at 1000mA input current:
> 
> [*]350mA: 107~114lm
> ...



Yes I am aware of DX's "manufacturer's rated" specification on the Q5s they sell. I am simply going by what other's have said here and some flux chart that someone showed here. One would think that if the CreeXRE Q5 equals or betters the SSCP4 emitter (which is manufacturer rated 240 lumens @ 1A), that it should be around 240-250 lumen when ran at 1A. Either that, or many here at CPF are exaggerating numbers... :shrug:


----------



## rizky_p (Dec 22, 2007)

My questions are:
1. How hard the LEDs is being pushed
2. How the LEDs are being wired (series/parallel)
3. Battery Current draws?
4. Overal quality.

i hopes that someone who bought the light can shed some light on this.


thanks.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 22, 2007)

All I can think to say is :wow:

Romisen lights get way more :twothumbs than they do :thumbsdow

So I'll bet it doesn't hoover too badly!

:goodjob:


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Dec 22, 2007)

Can you buy this Romisen light at somewhere else other than DX?


----------



## chanamasala (Dec 22, 2007)

Found Info:

http://szromisen.en.alibaba.com/pro...CREE_LED_Torch/CREE_LED_High_Power_Torch.html

4 x Q4's (edit: I wrote P4's earlier by mistake)
Hi(100%)-Low(50%)-"Flash"
Output can be above 650 lumens

Already mentioned on a German MTB forum and Japanese Blog:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=romisen+rc-t5

Company:
http://www.szromisen.com/company_en.asp
http://szromisen.en.alibaba.com/

Edit:

Read it wrong as noted below.


----------



## kwarwick (Dec 22, 2007)

chanamasala said:


> Found Info:
> 
> http://szromisen.en.alibaba.com/pro...CREE_LED_Torch/CREE_LED_High_Power_Torch.html
> 
> P4's



Actually it says Q4 LEDs, but I wonder if they meant P4 because they are only quoting above 650 lumens. Q4s should be able to do better than that?


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Dec 22, 2007)

Nice find:twothumbs,
good to see its at least a q4 led, hm ... dissapointed that it hasnt got a lower mode then 50 %


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Dec 22, 2007)

Does anyone think that 650 lumens number is actually accurate? I know a lot of manufactures are great a giving inflated lumen numbers.

Is this product a DX exclusive?


----------



## bessiebenny (Dec 22, 2007)

Q4 may not be a typo. Q and P are furthest apart letters on the keyboard. =)
They probly got a whole bunch of cheap Q5 rejects which ended up being Q4. =P

650 lumens is easily possible if each Q4 is driven at 750mA or so.
I highly doubt it will be pumping much more than that per LED though.


----------



## fa__ (Dec 23, 2007)

Order placed :thumbsup:


----------



## rizky_p (Dec 23, 2007)

Q4x4 ROCKS!! lets just hope that it is true.


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Dec 23, 2007)

I agree this light looks like it will be really bright. I cant wait to get some info from the owners of this light.

This looks like a new model, is this a DX exclusive model?


----------



## kwarwick (Dec 23, 2007)

ledebuhr1 said:


> I agree this light looks like it will be really bright. I cant wait to get some info from the owners of this light.
> 
> This looks like a new model, is this a DX exclusive model?



Well my order is showing as shipped on DX site. That's actually pretty impressive to see a new item ship in only 2 days, especially when compared to the ridiculous wait of almost a month for them to ship my VB-16 Q5. So hopefully I'll have it in a week or two and can provide some feedback and beam shots.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 23, 2007)

Looking forward to a first person opinion!

It's a bit up there in price for this poor boy, but I might be able to work a deal with "The Power"....


----------



## rizky_p (Dec 24, 2007)

This flashlight is soo late for christmast i spent the money already and cant afford another light. No excuse for more lights now. :sigh:


----------



## garence (Dec 25, 2007)

fa__ said:


> Order placed :thumbsup:


Same here -- way too hard to resist. Looks quite promising over the 3x Cree. Now to wait for the 2 week fulfillment and shipping from DX.


----------



## fa__ (Dec 25, 2007)

And if this one turns to be crap, i'll go for a wolf eye storm , it has tempted me for too long


----------



## Garnett (Dec 25, 2007)

What are people's thoughts regarding this versus say the Aurora WF-800 Q5 for $42? Are Q5 LEDs far better? Cheers.


----------



## fa__ (Dec 25, 2007)

WF800 seems to be designed to be a mainly a thrower, this multiled light shoul be a lot more floody


----------



## bessiebenny (Dec 25, 2007)

Garnett said:


> What are people's thoughts regarding this versus say the Aurora WF-800 Q5 for $42? Are Q5 LEDs far better? Cheers.


 
As I said before in some other forums:

WF800 is a thrower. I'm pretty sure that it will out throw the 4 cree light. 
Reflector shape is made to maximise its hotspot brightness and not spill.
So it'll light up a fox 200m away a little brighter than the RC-T5 would.

But in terms of sheer light output, RC-T5 will be at least 2 to 3 times the brightness of the WF800. So it'll light up the room/field/forest MUCH better than the WF-800. It's just that all that amount of light isn't concentrated in a small tight hotspot like the WF-800.


----------



## europium (Dec 28, 2007)

I also couldn't resist and ordered one.  

I actually prefer the 50% setting for low, since to my eyes (with poor night vision) it will be like 25% of the high setting, and that's still a good level for use outdoors (since I don't ever expect to use this indoors). Although a 10% setting in place of the "flash" mode would be better. 


Eu


----------



## Garnett (Dec 28, 2007)

bessiebenny said:


> As I said before in some other forums:
> 
> WF800 is a thrower. I'm pretty sure that it will out throw the 4 cree light.
> Reflector shape is made to maximise its hotspot brightness and not spill.
> ...



Thanks! Couldn't resist - ordered one. hopefully it'll do a good job.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 28, 2007)

Sure wish I could order one! If its nearly as nicely assembled and bright as the RC-F4 it must be SOMETHING!


----------



## gallium-arseno (Dec 29, 2007)

i've ordered the whole batch 

just kidding, i've ordered five. one fo me, one backup for me, one for my father (just beginning to be addicted), remaining for resale.

hope, this piece of light will shine for more than 13 minutes before 

ciao,

torsten /western germany


----------



## eddielee70 (Dec 29, 2007)

gallium-arseno said:


> i've ordered the whole batch
> 
> just kidding, i've ordered five. one fo me, one backup for me, one for my father (just beginning to be addicted), remaining for resale.
> 
> ...



data on the light uses 4 Cree Q4s.

http://szromisen.en.alibaba.com/pro...CREE_LED_Torch/CREE_LED_High_Power_Torch.html


----------



## jsr (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm curious whether the light actually runs at full output on 2x18650s. The Vin with 2x18650s is 8.4V max (slowly dropping to 7.4V) while 4x123As is 12V (maybe 9.6-10V loaded), much higher. I recall some lights on DX saying they work with Li-Ions when in actuality, they are not nearly as bright because the driver was not designed for them and thus the light works, but not at full spec.


----------



## bessiebenny (Dec 30, 2007)

If you look at their run times for each battery, it's interesting.

3 hours with 4 x CR123A
2.5 hours with 2 x 18650.

Considering 2 x 18650 has more capacity than 4 x 16340, if they were being suckd the same amounf of current, 2 x 18650 should last longer. But it doesn't. In fact, it runs shorter by about 20%. So it must be pulling more current when fed with lower voltage to compensate. Well, considering their run time figuires are generally wrong, it wouldn't surprise me that my theory is totally wrong. hehe.


----------



## fa__ (Dec 30, 2007)

To all who placed an order, did you order 10451 or 10452 ?


----------



## jirik_cz (Dec 30, 2007)

bessiebenny said:


> 3 hours with 4 x *CR*123A
> 2.5 hours with 2 x 18650.



I think that 3 hours runtime is with primary batteries


----------



## gallium-arseno (Dec 30, 2007)

fa__ said:


> To all who placed an order, did you order 10451 or 10452 ?



i've ordered 10452 because i can't see longer this boring black.

regards, torsten


----------



## -walle- (Dec 30, 2007)

I ordered 52, think the color looks better than it does on 51


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok this arrived today in the post.
fist thoughts are:
It looks quite nice. The threads feel ok.
The wiring looks a ok. It is wired as 2 parallel sets of 2 in series. i.e. 2 sets of 2 led in series.
On Primary cr123 it all looks ok but on rcr123 the extra length is too much and the cells are crushed to the extent they stop working (ultrafire cells)! After removing a section from the top of the tube though they fit fine.
This thing is very bright and throws well. Was lighting up houses over 100m away despite the street lights.
Took some pics http://picasaweb.google.com/f00b4rr/Cree4
there are 2 wall shots @~3m. The wall is painted light blue sorry. The comparison light is an ultrafire fmr1 with a fresh cr123.
The reflector / emitters are not symmetrical! which is odd.
I haven't had chance to see how long it runs for yet.
The cells are 16.3v unloaded and it draws 0.48 amps I think


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the info. I would like to know how this compaires to the MX Power 3Cree in brightness. 
I hate to order one, as Im sure they will have a model out that uses the Q5.


----------



## lightfet (Jan 2, 2008)

I can't resist the temptation, ordered 1 too.


----------



## LoneRebel (Jan 3, 2008)

MountainPenguin:Any chance you can see how it does on 18650's? Also can you try and light up a backyard or neighborhood or something? Those hotspots on the wall don't scream I'm a monster to me 

Thanks,

BTW When did you order? Just curious how much longer I have to wait for mine to arrive.


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok this arrived today in the post.
fist thoughts are:
It looks quite nice. The threads feel ok.
The wiring looks a ok. It is wired as 2 parallel sets of 2 in series. i.e. 2 sets of 2 led in series.
On Primary cr123 it all looks ok but on rcr123 the extra length is too much and the cells are crushed to the extent they stop working (ultrafire cells)! After removing a section from the top of the tube though they fit fine.
This thing is very bright and throws well. Was lighting up houses over 100m away despite the street lights.
Took some pics http://picasaweb.google.com/f00b4rr/Cree4
there are 2 wall shots @~3m. The wall is painted light blue sorry. The comparison light is an ultrafire fmr1 with a fresh cr123.
The reflector / emitters are not symmetrical! which is odd.
I haven't had chance to see how long it runs for yet.
The cells are 16.3v unloaded and it draws 0.48 amps I think


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 3, 2008)

LoneRebel said:


> MountainPenguin:Any chance you can see how it does on 18650's? Also can you try and light up a backyard or neighborhood or something? Those hotspots on the wall don't scream I'm a monster to me
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> BTW When did you order? Just curious how much longer I have to wait for mine to arrive.



ordered when the thread appeared here.
If i go off to visiti a mine this weekend will take pics there as well as doing a bit of painting


----------



## J.D. (Jan 3, 2008)

looking forward to see your pics


----------



## Stereodude (Jan 3, 2008)

ledebuhr1 said:


> The only thing I dont like about ordering from DX is that it takes so long. Why cant they ship this stuff from China to a warehouse in the US and then ship it to our houses.


Simple, it gets them around paying an import duty on the lights, and shipping from China to the US is probably less than UPS ground or USPS from inside the US.


----------



## Steel and Light (Jan 4, 2008)

Initial impressions:

Got my Romisen 4 Cree from DX a couple of days ago. It seems brighter than my 3 Cree light but to my eyes not tremendously so. The build quality seems very good. You can also take out a section and run it on 3 batteries instead of 4. The sheath is so-so.

For some reason, the guys at the office say that it feels better in the hand than the 3 Cree light - better balanced?

I made the mistake of accidentally shining it in my eyes. Had a headache for an hour. Ouch!

I'm impressed so far, a keeper.


----------



## Grzess (Jan 4, 2008)

Can anyone measure current draw from battery?
I hope this light will not  like ultrafire.


----------



## J.D. (Jan 4, 2008)

mountainpenguin said:


> The cells are 16.3v unloaded and it draws 0.48 amps I think


16,3v x 0.46 amps are 7,498 Watts.
lets say the boards effectiveness is 80% 0,8x7,498 watt around 6 watts
(i doubt it would be 80%)
so there are 6 watts for 4 leds, means 1,5w/led
in this calculation each led is powered with 1,5w/3.6v = 0.41A

hm i hope your measurement wasn´t on high...
if so, there is a lot of modification potential 

cheers
J.D.


----------



## fa__ (Jan 4, 2008)

Measured on mine (received yesterday)
On high mode:
970 mA with 2* 18650 at 8.05V -> 7.8W 
520 mA with 4* rcr123a at 16.49 v -> 8.57W 

My eyes can't see any difference between 18650 and rcr123


----------



## Trax (Jan 4, 2008)

Hello,

I am new to led flashlights and only own a fenix l2d, is there any chance you could post a photo of the 4x cree compared to a single fenix?


----------



## Grzess (Jan 4, 2008)

~0.45A at each emiter, not much. 
So the output is probaly comparable to MX power 3-cree.
Now i have dillema which to chose...:thinking:


----------



## fa__ (Jan 4, 2008)

mountainpenguin said:


> Ok this arrived today in the post.
> fist thoughts are:
> It looks quite nice. The threads feel ok.
> The wiring looks a ok. It is wired as 2 parallel sets of 2 in series. i.e. 2 sets of 2 led in series.
> ...



Was it hard to unscrew the head ? Mine seems to be glued


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Jan 4, 2008)

Trax said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am new to led flashlights and only own a fenix l2d, is there any chance you could post a photo of the 4x cree compared to a single fenix?



here you go:kewlpics:









Without extender (3 x rcr123a)


----------



## Trax (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks for the photos any chance of a photo of the beam pattern side by side against a white background or comparison outside in the dark?


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Jan 4, 2008)

Trax said:


> Thanks for the photos any chance of a photo of the beam pattern side by side against a white background or comparison outside in the dark?



Might give it a try but I doubt my mobile phone cam would do it any justice, lets hope others with better cams will post some bemshots.


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Jan 4, 2008)

Im sure Romisen will come out with a version that uses Q5 LED's soon, or the even brighter R series.


----------



## J.D. (Jan 4, 2008)

ledebuhr1 said:


> Im sure Romisen will come out with a version that uses Q5 LED's soon, or the even brighter R series.



According to Romisen there are Q4´s used - i don´t think you will see the difference between Q4 and Q5....


----------



## -walle- (Jan 4, 2008)

What options are available if you wanted to drive the led's at a higher current? Would it possible to direct drive them as they are? Maybe with a small resistor?


----------



## J.D. (Jan 4, 2008)

-walle- said:


> What options are available if you wanted to drive the led's at a higher current? Would it possible to direct drive them as they are? Maybe with a small resistor?


You could use the shark board form the sandwich shoppe http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?products_id=1089.

Maybe the best solution, but a little expensiv...

Or you use a cheaper solution, as discussed here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2294633#post2294633


----------



## -walle- (Jan 4, 2008)

J.D. said:


> You could use the shark board form the sandwich shoppe http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?products_id=1089.
> 
> Maybe the best solution, but a little expensiv...
> 
> ...



Thanks. But isn't the voltage off on the shark board? I would think you'd something like 14.8V to drive four cree's, or does it not matter as long as the current is high enough?


----------



## J.D. (Jan 4, 2008)

The shark converter is a boost board.
It means with an input volage 8,4v the output voltage can be as high as 22V.
(As long as the input current didn´t exceed 4A).

The shark is current OR voltage regulated.
In this setup you would regulate the current, with the remora board in 3 steps up to ~1A for 4 Crees in a row.
So every Die gets exact the same current.

For more information about the shark board search for some threads her on cpf


----------



## Bandgap (Jan 4, 2008)

What is the spread of this light?
- Beam width at a certain distance would be fine thanks. 

And does any one know if it is wider or narrower than the MX Power 3-Cree. 

and has anyone got a light meter near either of them yet?

Thanks

Steve


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 4, 2008)

runs for 45 mins on 4 ultrafire 880mah rcr123.
Also It gets quite warm. It gets a lot warmere after i deed some heat transfer gloop between the board / cree block and the head.


----------



## fa__ (Jan 4, 2008)

It's strange : mine has run 55 minutes on 2*18650 and each battery still shows 3.8V (4.17 initially)

But it really has not enough light power, if i can unscrew the head i'll fit better drivers (and enhance heatsinking if required). I would say mine is about 300 real lumens , a little more than my fenix T1 but not so much


----------



## fa__ (Jan 4, 2008)

mountainpenguin said:


> runs for 45 mins on 4 ultrafire 880mah rcr123.
> Also It gets quite warm. It gets a lot warmere after i deed some heat transfer gloop between the board / cree block and the head.



I ask again because i really would like to open mine : how did you unscrew the head ? heat ?


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Jan 4, 2008)

So it sounds like its not really much brighter than the 3-cree MX Power. It would be nice if someone, like Fenix, would come out with a light that would push 1000 lumens for us flashlight nuts.


----------



## fa__ (Jan 4, 2008)

I hope wolf eye storm is as good as is it seems ... i'll end up buying one :naughty:


----------



## johnnymceldoo (Jan 4, 2008)

fa__ said:


> I hope wolf eye storm is as good as is it seems ... i'll end up buying one :naughty:




Mine showed up! Its a sweet light. Dont have my tiablo for comparison shots right now though just a task force and single CR123 ultrafire.

It would be nice to see some caparison shots of the storm vs. quad cree.


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 5, 2008)

the head just unscrews. It wasnt glued or anything


----------



## fa__ (Jan 5, 2008)

You were lucky, or i was unlucky, because mine still refuses to open ! I'll try again


----------



## fa__ (Jan 5, 2008)

Still unable to unscrew !
I let the head 6 hours at -18°C , didn't help
I let the head 30 minutes in boiling water, didn't help
Don't know what to do next :mecry:


----------



## rizky_p (Jan 5, 2008)

fa__ said:


> Still unable to unscrew !
> I let the head 6 hours at -18°C , didn't help
> I let the head 30 minutes in boiling water, didn't help
> Don't know what to do next :mecry:




must have been a really tough glue.

well i finally convinced my friend to buy one  cant wait it to arrive. this is going to be my first romisent light. i hope it is a good one.


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Jan 5, 2008)

fa__ said:


> Still unable to unscrew !
> I let the head 6 hours at -18°C , didn't help
> I let the head 30 minutes in boiling water, didn't help
> Don't know what to do next :mecry:



Heres a tutorial on how to open a Fenix head, you need strap wrenches though https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/169949

Im very satisfied with this torch so far.
I currently run it with 18650 batteries, have anyone tested "4 x 3,7v RCR123a protected batteries"?, if so, did you have to shorten the tailcap-spring?


----------



## fa__ (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks for the tip, i'll try to find strap wrench ...
Concerning RCR123A, mine is ok without modification with 4 AW RCR123 protected


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks, nice to know, I´ll order some AW´s :thumbsup:.


----------



## xevious (Jan 5, 2008)

ledebuhr1 said:


> So it sounds like its not really much brighter than the 3-cree MX Power. It would be nice if someone, like Fenix, would come out with a light that would push 1000 lumens for us flashlight nuts.


It would be interesting to see the beam comparisons side-by-side. CPF member reported 300 lumens is just a guess... ~50% off 650 lumens spec seems severe. I'm hoping it's more like 400 lumens minimum.

If you want 1000 lumens or higher, you might as well start looking at HID.


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Jan 5, 2008)

fa__ said:


> Measured on mine (received yesterday)
> On high mode:
> 970 mA with 2* 18650 at 8.05V -> 7.8W
> 520 mA with 4* rcr123a at 16.49 v -> 8.57W



Characteristics Q4: (info from ledsupply.com)
DC Forward Voltage @350mA V 3.3
DC Forward Voltage @700mA V 3.5 
DC Forward Voltage @1000mA V 3.7
Lumen Rating @ 350mA lm 100
Lumen Rating @ 700mA lm 170 
Lumen Rating @ 1000mA lm 220 

If each led is driven @ 520mA with AW´s 3,7v rcr123, cant we then assume
that each led produces around 140 lumens?, so 560 lumens?


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Jan 5, 2008)

If you used 4 Q5's and got 200-250 lm per led, you would be there.


----------



## fa__ (Jan 6, 2008)

W-c.Scenario said:


> Characteristics Q4: (info from ledsupply.com)
> DC Forward Voltage @350mA V 3.3
> DC Forward Voltage @700mA V 3.5
> DC Forward Voltage @1000mA V 3.7
> ...




You're right and i already did this calculation , but i can not 'feel' this light power . Where do all my lumens hide ?? :shrug: 
I i finally can open this head, i'll think about puting a shark board + good heatsinking, driving those leds in a row at 800mA - 1 A !


And as you said, 300 350 lumens is just a guess from me, i have no tool to measure light output . But when I use romisen and T1 side by side, i do not feel a great improvement. T1 has less spill, maybe the romisen is just badly designed for the optic part ...


----------



## fa__ (Jan 6, 2008)

I should soon be able to do a comparison with Wolf Eye Storm (my birthday gift ) , it should be in my mailbox at the end of the week (ordered from ptsflashlight yesterday, don't know how long it takes to ship to france).


----------



## fa__ (Jan 6, 2008)

I finally got it open :twothumbs
Used tools i could even not give you the english name :thinking: and a lot of strength 



























Now i have to figure out how to remove the board


----------



## J.D. (Jan 6, 2008)

cool pics,
granulations - that you finally managed it to open this toy :twothumbs.

Seems like the cree boards are connected to the bezel ? - hopefully a good heat sink.

Is the LED board screwed into the bezel ? - maybe you can remove it  and see how much space is there ? i´m also interested to put a shark into this boy. But my light isn´t sent yet :thumbsdow


----------



## fa__ (Jan 6, 2008)

I yes, the alu heatsink seems to be screwed in the head, and led stars are glued on it. I'll try remove all this without destruction


----------



## fa__ (Jan 6, 2008)

In fact, it's easy to unscrew the whole heatsink with leds glued on an driver inside


----------



## J.D. (Jan 6, 2008)

wow, very informative pics - thanks for sharing them !
the whole construction looks good - very solid.

one last thing, can you measure the diameter of the board ?
(i want to know if the shark board may fit here).

Thanks - and a nice sunday...
J.D.


----------



## Grzess (Jan 6, 2008)

Nice pics!
That heatsink really don't look like being capable of transfering heat form 4 leds runing at more than 500 mA.


----------



## fa__ (Jan 6, 2008)

Final pics !

































I wired all leds in a row and tested at 1A, it requires 13.85 V and puts out a lot of light , not tested long enough to feel the heat, but as said before heatsink is not very heavy or massive, it has to be upgraded ... maybe a copper one would be nice


----------



## kwarwick (Jan 6, 2008)

fa__ said:


> I wired all leds in a row and tested at 1A, it requires 13.85 V and puts out a lot of light , not tested long enough to feel the heat, but as said before heatsink is not very heavy or massive, it has to be upgraded ... maybe a copper one would be nice



Great pictures, thanks very much for your efforts! I wonder if heat sink grease between the led plate and the flashlight head would improve the situation? The head is a nice chunk of aluminum with nicely machined fins on the back - I think it might be up to the job if we can make sure the heat path from the LEDs to ambient is good.

I have a MaxFlex2 on order, and plan to use this as the driver with 7.2v input. The MaxFlex2 can drive up to 1200 ma so good heat sinking is going to be important!


----------



## fa__ (Jan 6, 2008)

I fed the leds at 1 Amp with a current limited power supply. After less than 10 minutes, you can't touch the head, too hot ! (the head was complete, only the flashlight body was missing). I downgraded current to 800-850 mA, and after about 30 minutes on led died . This is the advantage of row connection : only one died :laughing:.

Anyway, my conclusion is that the head herself cannont dissipate enough heat; i believe that thermal conduction between aluminium block with leds and head is good, as the head was very very hot. I can not see a way to drive the leds over let's say 700-750 mA in this head whithout having heat troubles ... I dont think that putting the flashlight body back on the head would have helped a lot in thermal dissipation, may be a little but not so much.


----------



## kwarwick (Jan 6, 2008)

fa__ said:


> I fed the leds at 1 Amp with a current limited power supply. After less than 10 minutes, you can't touch the head, too hot ! (the head was complete, only the flashlight body was missing). I downgraded current to 800-850 mA, and after about 30 minutes on led died . This is the advantage of row connection : only one died :laughing:.
> 
> Anyway, my conclusion is that the head herself cannont dissipate enough heat; i believe that thermal conduction between aluminium block with leds and head is good, as the head was very very hot. I can not see a way to drive the leds over let's say 700-750 mA in this head whithout having heat troubles ... I dont think that putting the flashlight body back on the head would have helped a lot in thermal dissipation, may be a little but not so much.



Darn, that's not good at all! I guess there isn't much headroom in the thermal design of this 4xCree, at least not as a stationary device. As a bike light I wonder if it would be able to sustain higher currents with the air moving over the head? Well one nice thing about using a MaxFlex driver is it has temperature protection that can be set to drop the current when the temperature exceeds a preset level... so hopefully no  This same strategy seems to be done on few commercial bike lights to protect them when the bike is not moving.


----------



## kwarwick (Jan 6, 2008)

fa__ said:


> I fed the leds at 1 Amp with a current limited power supply. After less than 10 minutes, you can't touch the head, too hot ! (the head was complete, only the flashlight body was missing). I downgraded current to 800-850 mA, and after about 30 minutes on led died . This is the advantage of row connection : only one died :laughing:.
> 
> Anyway, my conclusion is that the head herself cannont dissipate enough heat; i believe that thermal conduction between aluminium block with leds and head is good, as the head was very very hot. I can not see a way to drive the leds over let's say 700-750 mA in this head whithout having heat troubles ... I dont think that putting the flashlight body back on the head would have helped a lot in thermal dissipation, may be a little but not so much.



Darn, that's not good at all! I guess there isn't much headroom in the thermal design of this 4xCree, at least not as a stationary device. I'm beginning to think the 3xCree MX Power might be a better host for a bike light. Both should be able to sustain higher currents with the air moving over the head, but one needs to take into consideration the inevitable stops during a ride. This is one the reason I decided to use a MaxFlex driver is it has optional temperature protection that drops the current when the temperature exceeds a preset level - so hopefully no ! Same strategy employed with a few of the commercial bike lights (Dinotte, Lupine).


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Jan 6, 2008)

I found some nice info over at http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=ja|en&u=http://takebeat.asablo.jp/blog/
google isn't so good at translating Japanese but there are some runtimegraphs etc..


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 7, 2008)

with the "Pill" exposed I added some transfer gloop between the ipp and the head. This made the head get a lot warmer so is probably dumping a lot more heat


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 7, 2008)

does anyone know if it would be possible to swap one of the LED's for a red / orange to make the colour better?
If so which LED would you use?


----------



## gallium-arseno (Jan 7, 2008)

@mountainpeguin:

hi, i'm sorry, but can't get "with the PILL exposed" and "the ipp". it's not my english skill, i think, i don't know your terms used.

thankx for explaining,

torsten


----------



## J.D. (Jan 7, 2008)

mountainpenguin said:


> does anyone know if it would be possible to swap one of the LED's for a red / orange to make the colour better?
> If so which LED would you use?


looks like the led boards are glued with some adhesive - if you manage it to remove one board you could use this led:

http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3312


----------



## ledebuhr1 (Jan 7, 2008)

its sounds like the problem with these super bright LED flashlights is heat.

Isnt there someone on these forums that makes a 1000lm Flashlight using one LED? How does he deal with the heat?


----------



## Nocturnicus (Jan 7, 2008)

I wonder when, if ever, we'll start seeing fan-cooled lights from manufacturers. I'm currently building a four-Cree light, fan-cooled so I can run 1000 ma into each LED. Not quite finished yet, but so far it seems to work quite well. Either you give the light more surface area, or you force the air flow (or make the LED's more efficient).


----------



## fa__ (Jan 7, 2008)

I'm back 
No led has died in fact, but one is no more soldered to the star !
I don't know how i'll put it back in place ...


----------



## kwarwick (Jan 7, 2008)

fa__ said:


> I'm back
> No led has died in fact, but one is no more soldered to the star !
> I don't know how i'll put it back in place ...



Wow, did it actually get hot enough to melt the solder holding it to the star? Or perhaps it wasn't well soldered to begin with and when you re-wired them in series it weakened the soldering enough. In either case I would just re-solder it back to the star and see what happens.


----------



## J.D. (Jan 7, 2008)

fa__ said:


> I don't know how i'll put it back in place ...



You can use Arctic Alumina (search here on cpf or google)- thats a thermal Adhesive ...

hm - not sure if this was your question :thinking:


----------



## fa__ (Jan 7, 2008)

It looks like leds are glued on the star, not soldered, ans this one was probably badly glued. I'll try to put it back, or i'll order a complete star (but it will be easier to find a q5 star than a q4, dont know if the mix is bad ... )


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 7, 2008)

gallium-arseno said:


> @mountainpeguin:
> 
> hi, i'm sorry, but can't get "with the PILL exposed" and "the ipp". it's not my english skill, i think, i don't know your terms used.
> 
> ...




oops should have read that before posting 
with the pill ( the silver bit with the driver and LED's) exposed you can coat the base of the head and the pill threads with heat transfer goop. After re assembling the head it will get a log warmer when running.


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 7, 2008)

J.D. said:


> looks like the led boards are glued with some adhesive - if you manage it to remove one board you could use this led:
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3312



that has a Vf of 2v but the white ones are 3.6v. Would this not also need a driver modification?


----------



## europium (Jan 8, 2008)

I don't know about the others who have the Romisen RC-T5, but mine flickers on 50% when using 2 x 18650 or 3 x CR123 batteries, but it does NOT flicker on 50% when using 4 x CR123 batteries.

By flicker, I mean the output seems to hesitate here and there, a couple of times a second or so, which is annoying. I'm NOT referring to the PWM that the RC-T5 uses for the 50% level, which is not noticeable unless you wave the light around.

Anyone else with this problem? Or is the circuit in my light not working properly?


Eu


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Jan 8, 2008)

europium said:


> mine flickers on 50% when using 2 x 18650 or 3 x CR123 batteries, but it does NOT flicker on 50% when using 4 x CR123 batteries.
> Eu


Which batterybrand do you use, maybe its a contactproblem, might be to tight if you use lower quality batteries, they get crushed due to the tight fit.
Maybe you can shorten the tailcapspring but I would just buy some
AW´s batteries they seem to work fine with this light.

AW RCR123a Protected 750 mAh @fenix-store.com

AW RCR123a Protected 750 mAh @lighthound.com

AW 18650 Protected 2200 mAh @lighthound.com


----------



## dulridge (Jan 8, 2008)

On 4 RCR123, it is about 35% less bright at 1 metre than an Ultrafire WF-500 on 2 18650s and stock bulb. This surprised me as the LED light seems brighter, but then it has a much less tight hotspot than the incan. It makes the incan which usually seems very white, seem horribly orange. I think it'll produce more light at a shorter range than the WF500 but would have to mess around for ages with a light meter in the rain outside to test this. Once it snows I may get around to it.


----------



## fa__ (Jan 8, 2008)

I never had flickering neither using 4xrcr123 nor 18650, but i did not use mid mod a lot.

I finally glued mly led back on the star, using superglue :thinking: after sanding top of star and led bottom. I'll certainly run into troubles one day when oxydation comes, but in the meantime i can a least keep on playing. I'll order a complete star to have one spare for this day


----------



## jzmtl (Jan 8, 2008)

I'm pretty sure super glue doesn't transfer heat well. I bought this from dx in my quest to change maglight's luxeon to seoul, haven't got it yet thou.


----------



## dulridge (Jan 8, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> I'm pretty sure super glue doesn't transfer heat well. I bought this from dx in my quest to change maglight's luxeon to seoul, haven't got it yet thou.



Use it properly - i.e., in an extremely thin layer, and it should be OK. What you are doing with all such compounds is filling in gaps - while other substances will transfer heat better, if you are doing it right, there should be almost none of it there anyway. So superglue is likely to be very little worse than anything else.

You can use toothpaste as a heat transfer compound if you really want to and it works fine till it dries out. http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm


----------



## jzmtl (Jan 8, 2008)

dulridge said:


> You can use toothpaste as a heat transfer compound if you really want to and it works fine till it dries out. http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm



Wow, never heard of that before!

That page is interesting too, apparetnly thermal compound isn't as good a heat conductor as I thought.


----------



## fa__ (Jan 8, 2008)

I used thermal compound (same as for cpu heatsink) under the led, superglue is only on the side after the electrical pad (hard to find words to explain this :shrug


----------



## dulridge (Jan 8, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> Wow, never heard of that before!



Can't say I recommend it though. I got sick of the noise from my living room PC's video card fan. It is a fairly high wattage device. It has been working quite happily for the last 3 years with the ear destroying fan ripped off and a copper heatsink superglued to the video chip. I used 4 dots of superglue (probably about a nanolitre of the stuff) and a blob of Copaslip anti-seize paste shoved in before I rammed on the (large) heatsink. That video chip consumes more power than most of the torches I own. It has not yet died after 3 years of continuous operation. 

Not that I'd try toothpaste in that role - it is abrasive (as is most heatsink compound). But I have used heatsink goop as a lubricant before now.


----------



## europium (Jan 8, 2008)

W-c.Scenario said:


> Which battery brand do you use ... [?]


I am using *fresh* Duracell Ultra 123A batteries and brand new fully charged protected button-top 18650 batteries from AW which I ordered specifically to use in this light.



W-c.Scenario said:


> maybe its a contactproblem,


I cleaned all contact points and the problem remained.



W-c.Scenario said:


> might be too tight if you use lower quality batteries, they get crushed due to the tight fit.


I am using the highest quality CR123 (fresh Duracell Ultra) and brand new AW's button-top protected 18650 batteries.



W-c.Scenario said:


> Maybe you can shorten the tailcap spring ...


The batteries all fit just fine, no crushing.



W-c.Scenario said:


> but I would just buy some AW´s batteries they seem to work fine with this light.
> 
> AW RCR123a Protected 750 mAh @fenix-store.com
> 
> ...


I already *am* using AW's 18650 protected batteries. These are the ones with the button-top. I am NOT using rechargeable 123 batteries at all. I am ONLY using primary 123 batteries, and the problem does NOT manifest itself when using four 123 primary lithium batteries. It DOES flicker when using three 123 primary lithium batteries ... AND it ALSO flickers when using AW's protected button-top 18650 batteries. Furthermore, this flickering ONLY occurs at the 2nd stage 50% output level. No matter what battery source I use, there is NO flickering at the 1st stage 100% output level. NOTE: I am NOT referring to the PWM used at the 50% level. I am talking about a 2 or 3 Hertz flicker, when the output seems to drop to near zero ever so briefly.

The flickering seems to be related to the input voltage level? 

Eu


----------



## fa__ (Jan 9, 2008)

I put the driver on the bench : at 9V high mode it flickers, is looks like this driver has two modes of operation and the limit between both is 9v


----------



## xevious (Jan 9, 2008)

Très bon, François. Merci beaucoup pour votre effort!

The photos and details you are providing are very useful. Sorry that one of your LED's burned out, but it sounds like you've got it well in hand.

So is the key issue with this light the head design, being able to dissipate the heat sufficiently if wiring the LED's in series? I'm intrigued by what Nocturnicus is up to, installing a mini cooling fan inside an LED light. It sounds like a great idea, but I wonder if you really need to have air vents on the head to be effective. Of course, you sacrifice water resistance but then the light would be for special purpose uses in dry conditions.


----------



## Vermonter73 (Jan 9, 2008)

I just ordered one to use as a bike light. I like that it appears to have good spill.


----------



## europium (Jan 9, 2008)

fa__ said:


> I put the driver on the bench : at 9V high mode it flickers, is looks like this driver has two modes of operation and the limit between both is 9v


Thank you for doing this. I guess this means there is nothing "wrong" with my light (in particular). I was worried that the circuit might be faulty and would eventually fail to function at any level altogether.

But it makes me wonder. My light does not flicker on high mode (= 100%) no matter the power source (be it 2 x 18650, or 3 x CR123, or 4 x CR123). There is also no PWM on the 100% level. Of course, that is the primary use for me, to use this light on high. However, when walking around outdoors after dark, I need to use the second mode (= 50%) occasionally so I can still see but without blinding someone walking toward me .. unless they look threatening, in which case I can switch to mode three (= flashing)! 


Eu


----------



## Cloudane (Jan 9, 2008)

Seen this on eBay, certainly can't go far wrong as they cost under £20, though I didn't bother getting one as my first "power LED" experience as I've taken the "get what you pay for" viewpoint recently and didn't want my first experience to be a bad one. So I opted for the much smaller (and less powerful) but still highly impressive Fenix L0D, which of course is very well known on the quality side of things and well, more expensive.

I'm curious if these are near the same standard of build quality etc given that they're more powerful than a T-1 at half the price


----------



## bspofford (Jan 10, 2008)

My three lights (twelve emitters in all) arrived from DX today. Overall, I'm disappointed. The construction is good, as expected from Romisen, but the performance is lacking. The light just isn't as bright as expected, and the tint is on the green side. Can anybody confirm that these lights actually have CREE Q4 emitters?:thumbsdow


----------



## fa__ (Jan 10, 2008)

It really looks like Q4, but they might be 'low quality' Q4 ? 
Driving theim at a higher wattage brings light (a lot of  ), so i believe the problem is more on the driver side which is a little weak to avoid heat problems.


----------



## lightfet (Jan 10, 2008)

Do you intend to mode the T5 to Cree Q5 and change the driver as well?

I'm thinking of doing that but not sure which driver to use since the original setup is using 2 sets of Q4 running in series.

Should I get 2 drivers running at 1400mah each?



fa__ said:


> It really looks like Q4, but they might be 'low quality' Q4 ?
> Driving theim at a higher wattage brings light (a lot of  ), so i believe the problem is more on the driver side which is a little weak to avoid heat problems.


----------



## fa__ (Jan 10, 2008)

I don't plan to change the leds. Concerning driver, i'll certainly replace it, maybe a shark with all leds in a row, maybe two drivers with two leds each ... don't know yet. But i dont think you should go to 1400 mA, it's going to generate a lot of heat. I believe that by "tuning" the current head with thermal paste and things like this it should be possible to run the leds at 850-900 mA, not a lot more.


----------



## lightfet (Jan 10, 2008)

Sorry, I'm an electronic idiot.

If I use a 1400mA driver and wire 2 Cree in series does it drive each Cree at 700mA or still 1400mA?


----------



## Vermonter73 (Jan 10, 2008)

In series both LEDs will have the same current.

In parallel, with two LEDs, they will split the current. Hopefully equally. Maybe not.

To use a water analogy - voltage is pressure, current is the actual amount of water. So with two in series they both need to move the same amount of water.


----------



## Mash (Jan 10, 2008)

1400mA.
If you wire them in parrallel, then the current gets split between the two and each would get 700mA.


----------



## lightfet (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks for explaining guys.



Vermonter73 said:


> In series both LEDs will have the same current.
> 
> In parallel, with two LEDs, they will split the current. Hopefully equally. Maybe not.
> 
> To use a water analogy - voltage is pressure, current is the actual amount of water. So with two in series they both need to move the same amount of water.


 


Mash said:


> 1400mA.
> If you wire them in parrallel, then the current gets split between the two and each would get 700mA.


----------



## vinsanity286 (Jan 10, 2008)

I just recieved my t5 today. I love it! On two ultrafire protected 18650 at 3.85 open volts it pulls .925 amps on high and .375 amps on low with no flickering. The tint is absolutely gorgeous, the best I have seen in an led. Very warm with no hint of green or purple just wonderfull warm white. I cant wait for darkness to fall:devil:.

Just one question though, how did you guys take the heat sink out? Mine seems to have no grab holes in it.


----------



## dulridge (Jan 10, 2008)

vinsanity286 said:


> Just one question though, how did you guys take the heat sink out? Mine seems to have no grab holes in it.



Not obvious at first. I just got a good hold of the central spring and turned it while encouraging the top to turn with a dentist's pick.

Be very careful not to knock off the transparent plastic discs on top of the LEDs - the wee $&^^&*%*s are very hard to see and are there to stop shorting out the LEDs on the base of the reflector.

It just unscrews - well mine did and I put some heatsink compound on the threads (Which made it a total pig to screw back in) and shoved it back in after replacing several of the transparent plastic discs.

Really, try hard not to disturb those - they are a pain.


----------



## vinsanity286 (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks for the quick responce. Ill try that.


----------



## xevious (Jan 10, 2008)

Just got mine. No box--sheathed in the holster and tucked into a thin bubble pack envelope. But the light made it without a scratch.

*WOW*.

Romisen does it again. You think the RC-G2 and RC-G4 are quality? You'll be surprised with the T5. It feels like a step up. The anodizing is really good quality (HAII or HAIII?), and even the threads are anodized. Form factor is well designed and the light is well balanced. The additional tube for 4x or 3x CR123 batteries is a very nice feature. With the extension tube, it feels quite substantial. It's a light and clobbering tool all in one!  And that 4-Cree cluster with the center reflector spike looks impressive at rest.

UPDATE:
I was so caught up with having finally received my RC-T5 that I hadn't realized at first that DX made a mistake--they sent me a 10451 (black) model instead of a 10452 (gray/natural) one. The holster had the wrong label on it, so that's why order fulfillment sent the wrong one. Did anyone else here experience this?

Also, the extension tube has a small fault--the anodizing on the inside surface has a nice big streak through it showing bare metal. I suspect it is a minor point, more aesthetic than anything, as the metal won't corrode on its own--unless its an alloy that might have a component that can rust?


----------



## Xak (Jan 10, 2008)

I'm almost sold on this light. I like that it has throw along with substantial spill. I really like the looks of the Fenix T1, though. How much brighter is the 4 Cree compared to the T1?


----------



## xevious (Jan 10, 2008)

Xak said:


> I'm almost sold on this light. I like that it has throw along with substantial spill. I really like the looks of the Fenix T1, though. How much brighter is the 4 Cree compared to the T1?


These are two very different lights. The T1 is 2xCR123 size whereas the T5 is 3 or 4xCR123 size (with extension tube installed). Different form factors. T5 has much wider head. T1 gives you greater portability. T5 gives you combined substantial throw and spill. It all comes down to what your needs are. And as the CPF motto goes, "Buy both--you'll own more flashlights eventually, so start now!"


----------



## vinsanity286 (Jan 10, 2008)

After running my t5 on 3 x 123a (I dont know it it had anything to do with it) It now flickers on low mode with 18650's. I didnt run the light for more than a few seconds on low before but it now kicks out of low and goes into high after about 30 seconds to 1 minute on both types of cells. Stays in hi when put in high though.

I think this light is a good canditate for a quality driver instead of the crappy one it comes with.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 10, 2008)

Interested

Usually


----------



## xevious (Jan 10, 2008)

Ok, now I've had a chance to try some batteries in this T5.

First, I used two fresh CR123's and two "low" CR123's. High beam kicks out after about 15 seconds and reverts to lower output. So regulation is working.

Next, I put in 4 fresh CR123's. VERY bright. Compared with my Regalight WT1, it is definitely brighter. The spot intensity is not hugely different, but the T5 spot diameter is a little larger and the spill is gargantuan next to the WT1. The 4-leaf clover pattern is a little weird at first, but you get used to it.

Well, after trying high beam for a bit, I click to low beam... FLICKER city. Erratic flickering. I nudged the light and it went away for a moment... tapped it again and it was back. I took out the batteries, rotated the order and refilled the T5. At first low beam was doing a very very faint flicker, almost imperceptible. I tapped the side of the light again--flickering. There is absolutely NO flickering in high mode, so it can't be the battery contacts. It's either the switch or the emitter board. I'm wondering if it's the switch... you can depress the switch slightly before it clicks and it'll change modes. When I do that, the flickering starts crappy right away in low mode. Looks like I've got a defective light, in addition to the wrong color and missing anodizing inside the extension tube. 

Otherwise, this is definitely a good value light... if you get one free of defects.


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Jan 10, 2008)

Same when you use 18650 batteries?, works better for me.
Ivé tested it with ultrafire rcr123 and it didnt work that well, they make bad contact and they also get crushed ... very fragile.
Im about to order AW rcr123-batteries which I hope works better.


----------



## xevious (Jan 10, 2008)

W-c.Scenario said:


> Same when you use 18650 batteries?, works better for me.


I don't... um, I don't... own any 18650 batteries. :shrug:

I tried the T5 with 3 CR123's. The 1st position "high beam" is just about the same as low beam and still, the low beam is the only one that flickers. So I can't imagine it's the batteries. If it were the batteries, wouldn't the issue be consistent and not give such erratic flickering? If the contacts were bad, then both beams would flicker. So... leads me to believe it's something else.


----------



## J.D. (Jan 11, 2008)

BAD NEWS ! on Dealextreme

It´s sold out :shakehead

Anyone knows another source ?



> Dear J,
> 
> The item 10452 is sold out now, would you like to change ?
> Look forward to your reply.
> ...


----------



## dulridge (Jan 11, 2008)

J.D. said:


> BAD NEWS ! on Dealextreme
> 
> It´s sold out :shakehead
> 
> Anyone knows another source ?



Doesn't even appear of Ebay after a quick look. Maybe DX still have 10451 which is the same thing in black?


----------



## vinsanity286 (Jan 11, 2008)

After becoming frustrating with my low mode not working correctly and not seeing the point of flash in a light like this I took the mode driver out of the equation so it is now just a one mode(high) light. This is done by connecting the two red wires together which bypassed the modes.

Now with the same 2 18650's it draws 970ma instead of around 850ma so it must have made it just a touch brighter as well.


----------



## Xak (Jan 11, 2008)

Interesting. 

Well, I pulled the trigger. I ordered the* 10451 *instead due to the rumor above that the *10452 *was sold out. I like jet black better anyhow. I also got a couple cheapo's to experiment with as an EDC type light. Both are "new", haven't been reviewed yet, and seamed to have the characteristics I wanted (i.e. a 1X123 simple on-off clicky). The *7320 *and the *10685. *I may pop the reflector out of one of them to make a "mule" like flood light.

 Hope I have better luck with my T5 modes.




​


----------



## kwarwick (Jan 11, 2008)

vinsanity286 said:


> After becoming frustrating with my low mode not working correctly and not seeing the point of flash in a light like this I took the mode driver out of the equation so it is now just a one mode(high) light. This is done by connecting the two red wires together which bypassed the modes.
> 
> Now with the same 2 18650's it draws 970ma instead of around 850ma so it must have made it just a touch brighter as well.



That's odd, I'm seeing 960-970ma with a stock T5 using protected 2 x 18650 (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5776). Perhaps the driver in your T5 has more than just an issue with the low mode. I haven't noticed any problem with low mode on mine so far.


----------



## vinsanity286 (Jan 11, 2008)

double post


----------



## vinsanity286 (Jan 11, 2008)

on fresh 18650's it was drawing around 960ma with the stock set up.


----------



## phantom23 (Jan 11, 2008)

J.D. said:


> BAD NEWS ! on Dealextreme
> 
> It´s sold out :shakehead
> 
> Anyone knows another source ?


 
I'm a very lucky guy. My T5 was shipped today/yesterday (it's 3:20am in central Europe).


----------



## eddielee70 (Jan 11, 2008)

lux reading I had from the mx-power 3-cree is 23, wf-500 was 24 which also burn out in 5 minutes(very bad design, smell burn circuit), the t-5 4 cree is 25.5lux on 2 18650 and 26lux on 4 rcr123. doing long term test now with battery run down voltage cut off and rerun for 10 hour with a fan blowing. see if the circuit blows like wf-500. MX power have been the most reliable and best botton to work so far. got a Kaidomain 3 cree that didn't work after 5 minute. switch was bad, so asking for a refund. We will see if Kaidomain have such a good respone and service as Dealextreme. Dealextreme was so much easier to work with with returns for WF-500. I would have expect the T-5 to have more lux then 26. expecting 32 or more lux. either it's not Q4 led or it's not driven very hard, so we see about long term test.


----------



## eddielee70 (Jan 11, 2008)

I received both model 10451 and 10452, but the light color is a little off in each light. I thought one was not q4, but both read 26 lux from 6 feet blue ceiling. anyone have that problem with color that's not truly white??


----------



## fa__ (Jan 12, 2008)

I also opened the tailcap, it's a simple on off switch


----------



## fa__ (Jan 12, 2008)

I rewired all 4 leds in a row
As the stock driver is not a boost, i must use 4xrc123a to get an high enough voltage.
In this configuration, the output is brighter.
I forgot measuring current delivered to the leds before soldering :scowl:, but it looks like it's around 1000 mA.
Current drawn from 4 rcr123a is 950 mA (at 4*4.1 V)
I can feel the head warm after 10 mn outside with external temp of 5-6 °C.
The beam is quite strange, no real hotspot, not a very brillant area, but a large flood : about 50 metres wide at a 70 metres distance. (i modified the relfector holes for it to fit better, i think leds a little inner in the reflector now, it might be the cause for this flood).
I'll try removing the mode module as described in another thread here.


----------



## deathkenli (Jan 12, 2008)

vinsanity286 said:


> on fresh 18650's it was drawing around 960ma with the stock set up.


 
If I did the maths correctly, each cree is driven at only around 450mA.

Disappointed.oo:


----------



## Northern Lights (Jan 12, 2008)

I was eye balling the 3X model for some time, this is great news to me. 

I think one of the first tri-lights was the 3D and 4D size TM800x3 Shyguang sold by Nuwai as the TM-800x3; they used Luxeon III. I have modded those with Cree and SCC to make really good lights with long run times. SCC mod uses 3D batteries at 12Ah and the Cree uses 5C batteries for 5Ah of battery power.
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=175525 with pics
But this tickles me and I am waiting on the review, I gotta have one, a 4x Cree light.


----------



## big beam (Jan 12, 2008)

I hope you guys are wrong.I just ordered a 52 an hour ago and didn't see anything about it being out of stock.It said 3-5 days to ship.:thinking: Where did you see it was out of stock
DON


----------



## xevious (Jan 13, 2008)

Very cool investigative work there, François. 

So the switch is a plain old on-off eh? Does that mean the circuit board has memory? Because I find that if I wait a little while and click the switch, it continues to the next setting after the last one (e.g. "high", "off", pause for a few minutes, "low" appears--next sequential mode, rather than starting with "high" again). I even removed the switch and tried it again--it remembered what the last mode was and advanced to the next one. Maybe I just didn't wait long enough.

*UPDATE on DEFECT:*
I'm finding my T5 flickering is definitely not due to battery contacts. In low mode, I rotate the light VERY slowly... and I'll eventually come across a "high flicker propensity" zone... continue rotating and the flickering can even stop. I'm rotating it very slowly and confident the batteries are not moving around. Also, I'm finding that the light won't flicker at all upon first use, only once it has begun to warm up a little.


----------



## fa__ (Jan 13, 2008)

Maybe your aluminium heatsink is not screwed enough in the head, but ground does not come by this threading, there is a large spring, this one might be misplaced ...
I double checked the switch with a DMM, it really only does ON / OFF.


----------



## Vermonter73 (Jan 13, 2008)

I hope it doesn't have a memory. I prefer lights to always come on in the same mode, so I always know what to expect.

My order status is still "waiting for supplier". They've billed my card. I hope it ships soon!


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Jan 13, 2008)

It has a memory:laughing:


----------



## kwarwick (Jan 13, 2008)

W-c.Scenario said:


> It has a memory:laughing:



Actually, I don't think it does. If you are just playing with it... turning it on and off... then it will turn back on in the next setting. But I've noticed if turned off for a longer period (I haven't figured out how long exactly) it will always startup in high mode. To me this is the prefect way to behave.

Karl


----------



## MiniLux (Jan 13, 2008)

W-c.Scenario said:


> It has a memory:laughing:


 
Yes, but it's working somewhat strange :huh:
Switching it off in either high or blinking mode will make it start in high mode next time.
Switching it off in low mode will make it start in blinking mode next time.


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Jan 13, 2008)

kwarwick said:


> Actually, I don't think it does. If you are just playing with it... turning it on and off... then it will turn back on in the next setting. But I've noticed if turned off for a longer period (I haven't figured out how long exactly) it will always startup in high mode. To me this is the prefect way to behave.
> 
> Karl



Correct, seems like it starts at high if you wait 60 seconds or so.


----------



## xevious (Jan 13, 2008)

fa__ said:


> Maybe your aluminium heatsink is not screwed enough in the head, but ground does not come by this threading, there is a large spring, this one might be misplaced ...
> I double checked the switch with a DMM, it really only does ON / OFF.


I hadn't tried taking the head off... found some good rubber strapping and got it off, saw the spring, and I pulled it out a little to see if that would seat better on the contacts.

At first I thought it helped... because it wouldn't flicker. But the light was really cold. After a few minutes it warmed up and the flickering resumed, again just on low mode.  Haven't heard back from DX support yet. Still waiting to see if they'll do me justice with a return.


----------



## xevious (Jan 13, 2008)

Has anyone tried doing the "soft" switch through the modes? You depress the switch slightly (not enough to click it) and the light will go off--release and you're on the next setting.

At one point I got 4 modes, but that's because my low mode is flickering a lot. :thumbsdow


----------



## Izual73 (Jan 14, 2008)

big beam said:


> I hope you guys are wrong.I just ordered a 52 an hour ago and didn't see anything about it being out of stock.It said 3-5 days to ship.:thinking: Where did you see it was out of stock
> DON



I ordered one 3.1.2008. It`s status is "processing". Yesterday I asked them about it, and here is the answer:
"Apologies that your order is put on hold because the product is temporarily unavailable from our warehouse."


----------



## big beam (Jan 14, 2008)

:shakehead:shakehead:shakehead:shakehead:shakehead D*#@MN
DON


----------



## qlong (Jan 14, 2008)

Can anyone get the measurement of the diameter of the tube? I am wanting to attach a scope mount so it maybe used as a weapon light. Mine is in transit. Thanks


----------



## uhg (Jan 15, 2008)

*Board size (MaxFlex/Shark fit)?*

Hi, Lots of great info here, just one more thing: Does any of you have the diameter for the stock board? Wondering whether a MaxFlex (2.3 mm) or a Shark (1.9 mm) will fit in its place: would like to order board while light is en route from HK. Thanks!


----------



## dulridge (Jan 15, 2008)

qlong said:


> Can anyone get the measurement of the diameter of the tube? I am wanting to attach a scope mount so it maybe used as a weapon light. Mine is in transit. Thanks



Head diameter 51mm
Finning behind head 41.4mm
Front band of knurling 30mm
Battery tube 26.9mm
Rear band of knurling 26.9mm
Tailcap 32mm


----------



## vader (Jan 15, 2008)

[FONT=&quot]Got my new T-5 just a few days ago. Couldn't wait to try it out so first thing I did was charge my 2 - 18650 batteries for the amount of time that the charger said to charge new batteries for, and then tried the light out . I was very disappointed With how bright the light was. There was talk in this thread that the light might put out as much as 400 to 600 lumens. The output of my T-5 is almost identical to the output of my old 160 lumen Fenix P3D. When shining both lights at a white wall from 3 feet away it's very hard to see any difference in the beam patterens. I didn't meter the batteries after being charged the first time. I am hoping since the batteries were new that they just didn't take a full charge. Heck even my 30$ 150 Lumen Task force light is just about as good as my T-5. 

I haven't run it off of 3-4 Cr 123's yet. The rechargables that I got are to long to fit in the battery tube. Is this light much brighter when running off of 3 or 4 CR 123's?

Is there a mod that I missed to make this thing a brighter light. Would it increase output if I hooked all t[/FONT][FONT=&quot]he Emitters[/FONT][FONT=&quot] up in series?
[/FONT]


----------



## kwarwick (Jan 15, 2008)

vader said:


> [FONT=&quot]Got my new T-5 just a few days ago. Couldn't wait to try it out so first thing I did was charge my 2 - 18650 batteries for the amount of time that the charger said to charge new batteries for, and then tried the light out . I was very disappointed With how bright the light was.



Definitely check the current at the tailcap with fully charged batteries. I've received defective 18650 (specifically the Ultrafire protected from DX) that didn't deliver the current they should. You should see 960-970ma with the light on high with two 18650s.

But I agree this light is not as bright as it could be. Even at 960ma the LEDs are not being driven very hard... maybe 400-450ma each (assuming some driver loss) so there is certainly room for improvement.

Karl


----------



## dulridge (Jan 15, 2008)

kwarwick said:


> Definitely check the current at the tailcap with fully charged batteries. I've received defective 18650 (specifically the Ultrafire protected from DX) that didn't deliver the current they should. You should see 960-970ma with the light on high with two 18650s.
> 
> But I agree this light is not as bright as it could be. Even at 960ma the LEDs are not being driven very hard... maybe 400-450ma each (assuming some driver loss) so there is certainly room for improvement.
> 
> Karl



The current may well be higher, the driver is undoubtedly dropping the voltage, therefore raising the current. If you fed 8.4V to the emitters they would let out the magic smoke that keeps them working.


----------



## qlong (Jan 15, 2008)

You think it'll be alright if I used 4 rcr123s at 4.01v each?


----------



## fa__ (Jan 15, 2008)

dulridge said:


> The current may well be higher, the driver is undoubtedly dropping the voltage, therefore raising the current. If you fed 8.4V to the emitters they would let out the magic smoke that keeps them working.



No, leds are wired as two pairs of parallell wired in a row


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 15, 2008)

fa__ said:


> I rewired all 4 leds in a row
> As the stock driver is not a boost, i must use 4xrc123a to get an high enough voltage.
> In this configuration, the output is brighter.
> I forgot measuring current delivered to the leds before soldering :scowl:, but it looks like it's around 1000 mA.
> ...



This may be a silly question but is all you did remove on of the positive and one of the negative wires from the head then add a wire bewteen. i.e. convert from 2 parallel blocks of 2 in series to 4 series. No alterations to the driver?
after this is it effectivly a  direct drive with 4 rcr123's or will it still run on primaries as well ?


----------



## xevious (Jan 15, 2008)

fa__ said:


> No, leds are wired as two pairs of parallell wired in a row


So in essence there is some redundancy... if one board failed, the other would continue--correct? I like Milky's design of having 4 boards for triple redundancy, though it'll cost you (but could be well worth it for the resulting output).

I did hear back from DX--they're taking my light back. I'm relieved to see that the return address is in Florida, not Hong Kong, so the cost of mailing back will be reasonable. I also asked them if they have the 10452 in stock (what I originally wanted--they sent a 10451), but I haven't heard back yet.


----------



## fa__ (Jan 15, 2008)

mountainpenguin said:


> This may be a silly question but is all you did remove on of the positive and one of the negative wires from the head then add a wire bewteen. i.e. convert from 2 parallel blocks of 2 in series to 4 series. No alterations to the driver?
> after this is it effectivly a direct drive with 4 rcr123's or will it still run on primaries as well ?



I don't have primaries to try theim, but i do not think the driver is able to boost voltage, it only regulates current


----------



## fa__ (Jan 15, 2008)

xevious said:


> So in essence there is some redundancy... if one board failed, the other would continue--correct? I like Milky's design of having 4 boards for triple redundancy, though it'll cost you (but could be well worth it for the resulting output).
> 
> I did hear back from DX--they're taking my light back. I'm relieved to see that the return address is in Florida, not Hong Kong, so the cost of mailing back will be reasonable. I also asked them if they have the 10452 in stock (what I originally wanted--they sent a 10451), but I haven't heard back yet.



if by board you mean star, yes, but there is only one driver board (the second board just cares about pwm for low mode or flash i think)


----------



## xevious (Jan 15, 2008)

fa__ said:


> if by board you mean star, yes, but there is only one driver board (the second board just cares about pwm for low mode or flash i think)


Ah, ok--I misunderstood. So Milky's X-800 has 4 driver boards (one for each LED) while the T5 has just one. I did see the two boards in your photos and didn't know that the second board function is for providing pulse width modulation.


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 15, 2008)

fa__ said:


> I don't have primaries to try theim, but i do not think the driver is able to boost voltage, it only regulates current



Ok but the other part of my was correct? you made the conversion by simply unsoldering 2 of the wires that go to the driver and replacing them with a jumper ?


----------



## fa__ (Jan 15, 2008)

Yes, the mod is as hard as you described :laughing:


----------



## mountainpenguin (Jan 17, 2008)

WOW that makes a difference. Doesnt run bright at all on primarys but rcr its super 
On primary cells its about as bright as my apex pro with a soul mod.
On rcr its a tad brighter


----------



## eddielee70 (Jan 18, 2008)

got my three 452 today. power them up with fresh cells, but two were dim, dimer with flicker, and flash mode. I thought I'm unluckly that I got two bad one that I'll have to send back to Miami, FL from bad experience with the WF500 3-cree which all of them burn out. it's weird, I just left them on for a few minute on high, and suddently they went as bright as the good one. For some reason they require some kind of burn in time. I don't know why that is, but they are all bright as they should be from the first 452 I got 3 week ago. I'm still doing long term test( 5 run till 18650 battery cut off voltage) to see if they burn out from bad heatsinking. so far so good on the first light I got 3 week ago. they are only a little brighter with rcr123a, so I stick to 18650 for longer 1:15 run time. 26 lux for these 4-cree(25.5lux on 18650) compare to 23 lux for the mx power 3 cree, so they must be running lower current or they cheated us using p4 led instead of q4 in their description.


----------



## batvette (Jan 18, 2008)

eddielee70 said:


> For some reason they require some kind of burn in time. I don't know why that is.


 
Solid state electronics components do not "burn in" to my knowledge, (though some ultra $$$$ audiophile cable manufacturers would disagree as they fleece you for up to $10k for a 6 ft pair of silver conductor RCA interconnects) what you probably had was a faulty connection somewhere in the circuit of the light. (the whole light, not just the circuit board) and it could also be in the batteries. Might be anodizing in the circuit path formed in the light body. 

The MX power 3 cree has a well documented problem when using RCR 123 protected batteries that are a tad too long, many owners reported the light not working at all. I observed the same thing but also if you didn't tighten it all the way the light would come on but pretty dim- less than half power. Something in that light does not like to be torqued down. If this uses the same tailcap clickie (it seems to have the same functions) you may just be having that same problem?


----------



## eddielee70 (Jan 18, 2008)

I blame candlepower, I was happy with my costco led 70lumen flashlight and halogen maglite until this forum. then I start spending alot of money to mod maglite and buying these high power HID and led flashlight for my family members. but sure made our walk in the dark more fun. anyways, the 4-cree now work great after the whatever burn in or anodizing. the mx power have been working great also, just too short of run time from the rcr123a. makes me want to turn the mx power into a bike light now. it's so lightweight compare to the 4-cree.


----------



## europium (Jan 19, 2008)

eddielee70 said:


> ... it's weird, I just left them on for a few minute on high, and suddently they went as bright as the good one. For some reason they require some kind of burn in time. I don't know why that is ...


I have also observed this. I think there is something in the circuitry that distinguishes between various input voltage levels, so that when the light is in 50% mode there is flickering when the voltage is between about 9v and 8v. However, when I leave the light on 100% for a while with 2 x 18650 batteries in it, and then later switch to 50% mode, the flickering is gone. It appears that after a while on high (= 100%), the voltage of the batteries under load drops enough so that the input voltage is lower than when the batteries are freshly charged, and with this lower voltage there is no longer any flickering on low (= 50%). :shrug: I have never experienced any flickering on high, and there is no flickering on low when I use 4 x 123A batteries. So above some voltage level there is no flickering on low, and also below some other voltage level there is no flickering on low. 

This is very fortunate, because I really like the output level on high, and the high mode is my most used mode. If I then go for a walk and the light is on high and then later I need to turn the light down to low, by the time this happens the voltage of the batteries under load is below the flickering threshold, and the low level appears normal, like it should.


Eu


----------



## fa__ (Jan 19, 2008)

Maybe an explanation for flickering :
It seems that the regulator board is using PWM to regulate current
The 'mode' board also uses PWM for 50% to modify light output

In some case there might be an interference between the two frequencies ?
Something like a problem with sampling frequency and Shannon law ?
Could this explanation be ok ?

(i removed my 'mode' board, so i can't do more testing).


----------



## europium (Jan 20, 2008)

fa__ said:


> Maybe an explanation for flickering :
> It seems that the regulator board is using PWM to regulate current
> The 'mode' board also uses PWM for 50% to modify light output
> 
> ...


I can't say I quite understand, but I can say that the flickering (in my light) appears to be dependent on input voltage: 4 x CR123 = no flickering; 3 x CR123 = flickering; 2 x freshly charged 18650 = flickering; yet 2 x no-longer-fresh 18650 = no flickering. 


Eu


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Jan 20, 2008)

Have you tried 3 x R-CR123 (3.7v)?, it also flickers?
I havent received my AW rcr123´s yet so Im curious if it will work with 3 of those.


----------



## europium (Jan 20, 2008)

W-c.Scenario said:


> Have you tried 3 x R-CR123 (3.7v)?, it also flickers?
> I havent received my AW rcr123´s yet so Im curious if it will work with 3 of those.


I don't have any rechargeable 123s. I never saw the need, considering their expense coupled with their poor capacity. But my hunch is that with 3 x RCR123 there would be no flickering at first, due to the higher initial input voltage. :shrug: 


Eu


----------



## Bror Jace (Jan 20, 2008)

I just read through all 7 pages of this thread.

I think for $50 I'll wait and save my money. If the light worked (reliably) as well in practice as it should on paper, I'd gladly part with the cash. 

However, there are simply too many ifs, ands or butts to the way this thing works (flickers) and is put together (inadequate heat sink).

Sorry guys. maybe in a few month's time someone will build one of these multiple emitter lights right ... for a reasonable price. 

If it worked as well as it _should_, I'd pay half again more. As it is, my next DX order will be placed without one of these monster lights on it. :shrug:

However, I want to thank everyone in this thread that took the plunge. I hope you are able to get some good use from the lights you ordered.


----------



## dulridge (Jan 20, 2008)

Bror Jace said:


> I think for $50 I'll wait and save my money. If the light worked (reliably) as well in practice as it should on paper, I'd gladly part with the cash.
> 
> However, there are simply too many ifs, ands or butts to the way this thing works (flickers) and is put together (inadequate heat sink).
> 
> ...



It's your money - and what you do with it is up to you. Personally, I think it's not that bad. Yes, it isn't perfect, but then what is. The flickering is not an issue for me - if I want a lower light level I'll use a less powerful light. If I'm carrying this thing, I'll almost certainly be carrying several others. Yes, it could be brighter - but would need better heatsinking to do so.

Better heatsinking immediately means higher cost. And so on. It is not as bright as a WF-500 but it lasts quite a bit longer on a pair of 18650s. And for what I want a light to do, it does it well.

However, we all have different priorities. What works for me may not do so for you. Though I do think your judgment is your loss. I'm happy with mine.

Cheers

Donald


----------



## europium (Jan 21, 2008)

I am also pleased with my Romisen RC-T5. The high level works reliably without any flickering regardless of battery source. I happen to be exclusively using 2 x 18650 batteries, but I am glad that the light accepts either four or three 123A primaries as well. I have logged about 6 hours on the light so far, with no malfunction. I like the output at both the 100% and 50% levels, since the flickering on low is not that noticeable and, as I've pointed out in previous posts in this thread, the flickering ceases as the voltage of the two 18650 batteries sag, so when I need to use the 50% level outside when I'm walking about, it works (for me) without any flickering at all. 

Do I wish the light was brighter? Maybe. The runtime on 2 x 18650 batteries seems to be in the neighborhood of three hours, which means the LEDs are not being driven very hard. On the other hand, it takes **a lot longer** to fully recharge Li-Ion batteries (typically 3 hours or more) than it does to recharge AA NiMH batteries (nowadays 90 minutes or less--sometimes a lot less), so I appreciate not having to so regularly swap out and babysit the 18650 cells while they are recharging. 


Eu


----------



## batvette (Jan 21, 2008)

europium said:


> I don't have any rechargeable 123s. I never saw the need, considering their expense coupled with their poor capacity. But my hunch is that with 3 x RCR123 there would be no flickering at first, due to the higher initial input voltage. :shrug:
> 
> 
> Eu


 
Hmmmm... I'm going to be using 4 rcr123's @ 3.6v each in mine, (shipped 1/15, waiting) wonder if that's too high? Using the same in the MXpower 3 cree, works fine though the protected ones were too long. 
Yeah you are right the capacity of rcr's is lower but hey- every day mine are new. I'm a cheap ******* and always saw a dilemma in having batteries 1/2 spent or more being thrown away. 

To each his own.


----------



## batvette (Jan 21, 2008)

Bror Jace said:


> I just read through all 7 pages of this thread.
> 
> I think for $50 I'll wait and save my money. If the light worked (reliably) as well in practice as it should on paper, I'd gladly part with the cash.
> 
> ...


 
I have had zero reliability issues with my MX power 3-cree from DX, once I got the proper batteries in it. (protected RCR is too long, caused malfunction) Performance is top notch, first LED light that can be used as a weapon IMO. Throw is unbelievable.
I ordered the 4 cree romison and hopefully it will be similarly impressive. Seems the "flickering" isn't a defect at all and is something that is ironed out once the proper battery package is used. 

Is it perfect? Well I don't like the UI with the low-strobe-hi, but I can deal with it. Bottom line is no LED flashlight on the planet as of today touches its performance for less than 2 times the price (and whatever that is will have issues as well) and I certainly can't walk into any store in my town (san diego) and just buy it anyway. 

The way this stuff goes is when the best lights are gone.... they're gone. Once word gets around that something is "all that" they are often sold out, never to return. I saw that happen with Elektrolumens repeatedly.


----------



## henni (Jan 22, 2008)

Hi

has anybody of you measured the max input voltage for the 4 cree romisen?


----------



## vader (Jan 22, 2008)

I got my new T-5 the other day and charged up the 18650 batteries like the charger said and then tried the light out. I was very dissapointed. It was just about exactly as bright as my old Fenix P3D or my new task force 150 Lumen light. I understand the current should be about 960 to 970 ma at the tail cap.

I measured the current at the tail cap today. It's 242 ma. The batteries were not newly charged, but they both read 4.08 VDC. I will charge the batteries and try it again, but I can tell you the light is just as bright as it was when the batteries were first charged. 

I have a problem somewhere and need to return either the light or the batteries to DX. My question is how can I tell if the batteries are limiting the current? or is it possible it could be the Flashlight?

Thanks


----------



## deathkenli (Jan 23, 2008)

vader said:


> I got my new T-5 the other day and charged up the 18650 batteries like the charger said and then tried the light out. I was very dissapointed. It was just about exactly as bright as my old Fenix P3D or my new task force 150 Lumen light. I understand the current should be about 960 to 970 ma at the tail cap.
> 
> I measured the current at the tail cap today. It's 242 ma. The batteries were not newly charged, but they both read 4.08 VDC. I will charge the batteries and try it again, but I can tell you the light is just as bright as it was when the batteries were first charged.
> 
> ...


 
It's a 3-mode light.
According to _batvette, _it starts with low.


----------



## fa__ (Jan 23, 2008)

Mines started in high - is say started because i removed mode daughterboard 
Anyway, 250 mA at 8V is 2W
In high you should have about 6W drawn from battery (assuming a 3.7V Vf and 800 mA for each pair (2*3.7*0.4*2) )


----------



## europium (Jan 23, 2008)

deathkenli said:


> It's a 3-mode light.
> According to _batvette, _it starts with low.


Mine doesn't. 

My Romisen RC-T5 operates as follows: 

Click -> 100% 
Click -> Off 
Click -> 50% 
Click -> Off 
Click -> Flashing 
Click -> Off 
Click -> 100% 

and so on.... If I leave the light off for more than a minute, it starts over from the beginning just like above, no matter what was the last output level.


Eu


----------



## Garnett (Jan 23, 2008)

europium said:


> Mine doesn't.
> 
> My Romisen RC-T5 operates as follows:
> 
> ...



Same here. Also, I left mine on, on LOW for an hour (with 4 RCR123s) and never experienced any flickering (although rather than watch it for the hour, I just revisited it every 10 mins or so)

I really rate the torch personally.


----------



## batvette (Jan 27, 2008)

deathkenli said:


> It's a 3-mode light.
> According to _batvette, _it starts with low.


 
FWIW in my running on I wasn't clear, I was commenting on DX's MXpower 3 cree which _appears_ to have the same tailcap 3 way clickie, though of course it may not be. If it were I thought it may be the source of the poor performance. 

As for the UI of the mx, I think it's low strobe high but I'm not sure, every time it's like playing the lottery.

I'm waiting on the Romison. I'm under the impression it will be about 1 led brighter than the MX with less throw. Brighter=good. Just in case we forgot why we're here.:wave:


----------



## eddielee70 (Jan 27, 2008)

batvette said:


> FWIW in my running on I wasn't clear, I was commenting on DX's MXpower 3 cree which _appears_ to have the same tailcap 3 way clickie, though of course it may not be. If it were I thought it may be the source of the poor performance.
> 
> As for the UI of the mx, I think it's low strobe high but I'm not sure, every time it's like playing the lottery.
> 
> I'm waiting on the Romison. I'm under the impression it will be about 1 led brighter than the MX with less throw. Brighter=good. Just in case we forgot why we're here.:wave:


mx power 3 cree is a different tailcap. can't be swaped. the brightness is not as bright as I wanted. only 23lux for the mx power compare to 26lux for T-5. the T-5 is driven at lower current as same batteries last longer then in the wf500, which was bright at 26lux 3 cree, but burn out in 10 minutes.


----------



## batvette (Jan 30, 2008)

eddielee70 said:


> mx power 3 cree is a different tailcap. can't be swaped. the brightness is not as bright as I wanted. only 23lux for the mx power compare to 26lux for T-5. the T-5 is driven at lower current as same batteries last longer then in the wf500, which was bright at 26lux 3 cree, but burn out in 10 minutes.


 

so you also have the MX power 3 cree as well as the Romison 4 cree? I just got my 4 cree in today, and am a little underwhelmed, it it no brighter than the MX and the tint, sadly, is the pukey yellow green that has infested about 20% of all the star-emotter lights I have ever bought. (of course only noticeably annoying next to a good tint light. )

I might even say it's a little dimmer than the 3 cree. To its credit is feels more solid, but heavier. Much more comfortable form factor with 3 rcr 123's but flickers right off with 3 RCR123's hot off the charger @4.2v ea. No flicker with 4 batteries. 


In the same shipment I got my glass lens for the MX, and a single cr123 cree "romison rc-c3" which is a little bigger than its ultrafire cousin I've had for a while that gets way too hot to handle. The romison is equally bright and runs cooler but also suffers (less) from the pukey tint. 


I should have just spent the buck and change on the lens and passed on the rest. 


So my subjective review on the romison 4 cree reads like this:

Buy the MX power 3 cree and sent it to me (so I can have a 2nd) and I will mail you back a light nearly as bright, heavier, longer, with a smaller head, that looks a tad bit classier in finish, and I will try not to get any vomit on it looking at the beam as it goes in the box. 

Oh and you get a holster too. I never wear a belt, one of the small perks about watching you don't overeat. Maybe its the color of the beams. 


FWIW shipment was well packed and for the first time after 3 orders from Hong Kong, (2 DX, 1 Kai) ALL the RCR123 batteries work. (this time was 6 rcr123 unprotected, 800ma) Rechargeables rule! They rule! I.... am the great..... corn- oh, never mind. I'm 45 fer chrissakes. 


In the end, you cannot follow "great" with "good" without some regret. My T-5 is "good". Well except for the pukey thing.


----------



## fordp (Jan 31, 2008)

:wave: Hi, this is my first post here. I'm from Sweden so english is not my language.

I've red about put the LED's from 2x2 in paralell to 4 in series . Is it possible with the orginal regulator or am I forced to change the regulator too?


----------



## fa__ (Jan 31, 2008)

It's possible with the orignal regulator, but you then will have to use 4*123 to get a high enough voltage. In the long terme, the regulator heats a lot and will shut off until it cools down ... so in reality you should replace the regulator


----------



## Xak (Feb 1, 2008)

The ETA on my T5 is 2/25!!!


----------



## jims (Feb 1, 2008)

Can you recommend a regulator for this light? Preferably something the same size.
Thanks


----------



## Vermonter73 (Feb 1, 2008)

They sent an email today that mine has shipped....again.

Even if the electronics turn out to be a dud, the 4-Cree head will be perfect as a bike light with all the spill.


----------



## MatajumotorS (Feb 2, 2008)

jims said:


> Can you recommend a regulator for this light? Preferably something the same size.
> Thanks


What is the dimensions of the regulator used in this light? I have some work in progress here, or you could use this driver with some modifications (but with no "multibattery" - only 2x18650, or only 4xRCR123A).


----------



## jims (Feb 2, 2008)

The original regulator is 20 mm in width.


----------



## eddielee70 (Feb 5, 2008)

for those you their t-5 order got backorder have it lucky, the new one that I got was 4 white len cree led instead of my 3 week old yellow len led t-5. when I installed the batteries, they were very bright. much brighter then my old 3-week old T-5. I test them to the lux meter, yeap, the old t-5 read 14.8lux and new white len led read 19.2lux( 27% brighter). dealextreme doesn't mentain what led was used, so I can not return them for the white Cree. I think these white led are really Q4 as in their Romisen website then.


----------



## deathkenli (Feb 6, 2008)

I got mine this noon.
There is only one word to describe it: BRIGHT!
BTW, those CREEs on the RC-T5 is different from the one on my RC-F4, bare metal base on T5, yellow phosphor coating on F4.
I ordered a grey T5, but DX sent me a black-grey one. Didn't bother to return it, I'm not picky about color anyway.


----------



## dda (Feb 6, 2008)

No yellow phosphor on the LEDs? What are they using, nanocrystals? My T5 has yellow phosphor and is also very bright.


----------



## deathkenli (Feb 7, 2008)

dda said:


> No yellow phosphor on the LEDs? What are they using, nanocrystals? My T5 has yellow phosphor and is also very bright.


I said "metal base", not the die.


----------



## Fubar411 (Feb 7, 2008)

So is this the best bang for the buck LED flashlight that takes 2 18650 batteries? I don't care for multi-mode, I might just bypass it if possible.


----------



## eddielee70 (Feb 7, 2008)

old 3 week T-5 have this color of led on:
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3293

new T-5 that just arrived 3 days ago that is 25% brighter had the white background led.
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=4076

don't know the if it's q4 or not, but it's 25% brighter with lux meter. you figure it out.


----------



## Xak (Feb 8, 2008)

Mine is backordered with an ETA of 2/25. Think it will come with the brighter, clear LEDs?


----------



## europium (Feb 8, 2008)

eddielee70 said:


> old 3 week T-5 have this color of led on:
> http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3293
> 
> new T-5 that just arrived 3 days ago that is 25% brighter had the white background led.
> ...


Is there a difference in runtime between the two different RC-T5 lights you have? 


Eu


----------



## petrev (Feb 8, 2008)

eddielee70 said:


> old 3 week T-5 have this color of led on:
> http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3293
> 
> new T-5 that just arrived 3 days ago that is 25% brighter had the white background led.
> ...


 


europium said:


> Is there a difference in runtime between the two different RC-T5 lights you have?
> 
> 
> Eu


 
Hi

RC-T5 4xCree

Yellow Base Cree - 
2x 18650 = 0.7A 
4x RCR123A = 0.58A

Silver Base Cree - 
2x 18650 = 0.8A
4x RCR123A = 0.57A

Yellow




Silver




With the yellow ones the yellow coats everything internal - including the four little connector wires . . .

The Older Yellow base version seems to have a poorer driver that underdrives when using 2x18650 cells and is noticably brighter when on 4xRCR-123A

Cheers Pete


----------



## Xak (Feb 12, 2008)

Xak said:


> Mine is backordered with an ETA of 2/25. Think it will come with the brighter, clear LEDs?



...Any idea?


----------



## Izual73 (Feb 12, 2008)

I got mine a few days ago. It`s grey with clear LEDs. Lots of light, I like it. :twothumbs

Edit: I dont know what I was thinking when I wrote black earlier. :laughing: Fixed it as grey...


----------



## phantom23 (Feb 12, 2008)

I have grey one and LEDs have silver bases too.


----------



## Xak (Feb 14, 2008)

I ordered a black one. Hope it comes with the silver based ones.

Also: Will there be any brightness difference between 3.0 volt or 3.7 volt 123 batteries?


----------



## big beam (Feb 16, 2008)

I ordered a grey one on Jan 12TH with some other stuff from DX and it was shipped on the 17TH.The invoice said the light was shipped but when I got the order no light.I don't even think they had the grey lights in stock on the 17TH so now we're going back and forth.They're emailing slow because of the new year and such.I hope when we get this all figured out I get one of the new lights.Got the battery's and charger but no light
DON


----------



## Empyfree (Feb 16, 2008)

I ordered one of these as part of a big order on the 28th Jan. The first part of my order shipped THE NEXT DAY! and the Romisen shipped on the 2nd as a seperate package. Both packages arrived within a week shipped to Britain. I'm verh happy with the light, performance on two 18650's is excellent with a big floody beam.


----------



## Empyfree (Feb 16, 2008)

double post


----------



## Xak (Feb 16, 2008)

Empyfree said:


> I ordered one of these as part of a big order on the 28th Jan. The first part of my order shipped THE NEXT DAY! and the Romisen shipped on the 2nd as a seperate package. Both packages arrived within a week shipped to Britain. I'm verh happy with the light, performance on two 18650's is excellent with a big floody beam.



Did yours come with the new or old (yellow or silver) LEDs?


----------



## Empyfree (Feb 17, 2008)

Xak said:


> Did yours come with the new or old (yellow or silver) LEDs?



It's got silver ones. Very happy with it.


----------



## TomBrown (Feb 20, 2008)

Mine was waiting for me yesterday, when I returned from vacation. I really like it.

It has the silver LED base and is extremely bright. This is my first Romisen light and I'm impressed by the machine work and general quality. Both the tail cap and tube extensions have double seals (lubricated). The head is sealed with a single seal (dry).

The low mode is bright and the bright mode is extremely bright.

I'm delighted with it so far. If I can get 60+ minutes out of it on high, it will be the best deal I've ever gotten on a flashlight.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 20, 2008)

Keep it up y'all. I'm trying not to be too interested.....


----------



## batvette (Feb 24, 2008)

eddielee70 said:


> old 3 week T-5 have this color of led on:
> http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3293


 
Yeah, that's what mine has and it makes for a pretty marginal product, compared to the good led's. The manufacturers AND the distributers all claim "luck of the draw" with regard to tint and performance but the fact that you have one each with 4 yellows and 4 whites, not a mix of the two in each, proves that is complete bull. 

So the yellow Romison sits embarrassingly in my truck's glovebox for emergency use, the more pleasing and powerful MX 3 cree sits in my hand for actual use, and $50 sits in my hand wondering what kind of random product might come my way if I send it to China. 

Sigh..... what sucks is when my friends ask where I buy my flashlights I don't dare tell them, because I'm not staking my personal reputation on endorsing this product when nobody knows what they'll receive.


----------



## batvette (Feb 24, 2008)

saands said:


> I always thought this too ... but then I went to China ... you might be surprized by the actual cost of things over there ... I needed an umbrella when I got caught in a rainstorm and figured that was about the worst possible time to negotiate the price of an umbrella. I saw a street vendor and he offered me one "Here, here, How much you pay?" I was delayed in my answer trying to convert to the local currency when he made the first offer: 6 RMB ... that's $0.75 for a new, functional, collapsible umbrella IN A TORRENTIAL DOWNPOUR ... I bought two without haggling and went on my way ... the point is that the prices might be dwarfed by postage, and it STILL might be a fine business model.
> 
> Saands


 
I was reading through this whole thread and just saw this post. It might be a "fine business model" for those of us on the purchasing end but as I understand it, (and you, unlike me, have been there and may have seen this or know better) the standard of living of those on the botton tier in that country and others we import from is deplorable. Supposedly in China you don't see the worst of it unless you go "off the beaten path".

On a human level even if we choose to look away from the fact that we get bargains on consumer goods because someone has to work in a factory for pennies a day, and not even enjoy anything beyond basic sustainance, the global effect of the overall environmental disaster being perpetrated by Chinese industry as a whole will bite us all in the *** soon enough in the global warming problem. The brown cloud hovering over mainland China, (even though it is particulate matter, not GGE related) is symptomatic of what is going on over there. Perhaps US manufacturers would be more competetive if they could pollute with impunity and employ (near)slave labor? 90% of China's internal waterways are now considered "non-potable" because of industrial pollution. That means can't drink it, don't bathe in it, don't wash with it. That wouldn't be acceptable here. 

No disrespect intended to DX or any Chinese nationals, as I am sure many wish to improve the situation, but a reality check is relevant from time to time.


----------



## Xak (Feb 25, 2008)

batvette said:


> No disrespect intended to DX or any Chinese nationals, as I am sure many wish to improve the situation, but a reality check is relevant from time to time.



A reality check? Here's a reality check: Not everyone here cares for or shares your socialist political views. This is a forum about LED lights, not the poor in other countries, so-called global warming, or pixie dust. 

Like that turtle from the Comcast commercials said: "Maybe you should take your lecture to a conference full of people who like lectures!"


----------



## Swedpat (Feb 25, 2008)

*Some questions*

I tried to read through all the pages in this thread but it's just too much for my lacking english understanding to completely getting everything.

I have a Tiablo A9 which I am very satisfied with. If you could advice me and answer following questions I would be happy:

1: I understand that this Romisen easy outperforms the Tiablo A9 when it comes to total brightness. But how big will the difference be? Does it provide twice the true brightness as the A9?

2: I prefer ordinary CR123 batteries. Will the light output curve be nearly flat during the runtime as with the Tiablo A9?

3: Is this exactly the model you are discussing? http://batteryjunction.com/rc-t5.html

4: Do you recommend me to order one?


Of course I understand that the answers of my last question may be different because of different personal opinions.

Thanks in advance, Patric


----------



## Xak (Feb 25, 2008)

*Re: Some questions*



Swedpat said:


> I tried to read through all the pages in this thread but it's just too much for my lacking english understanding to completely getting everything.
> 
> I have a Tiablo A9 which I am very satisfied with. If you could advice me and answer following questions I would be happy:
> 
> ...



I don't know anything about the Tiablo A9. But the link you provided does appear to be the model we are talking about. It is appears to be half that price if you order it from here: 

http://www.dealextreme.com/search.dx/search.RC-T5

I ordered mine over a month ago and still haven't gotten it yet, so be prepared to wait a long time after you order it from DX.

Good luck


----------



## Mike Painter (Feb 25, 2008)

batvette said:


> The manufacturers AND the distributers all claim "luck of the draw" with regard to tint and performance but the fact that you have one each with 4 yellows and 4 whites, not a mix of the two in each, proves that is complete bull.



The newer lights seem to have the "white" LED while the older ones the "Yellow".
I suspect the newer ones just reflect an improvement in production and that they are saving an additional .0001 cents per LED.
Tint and performance would still be a draw but if you look at the range in older LED bins vs the newer ones you find the differences are less. The development of the LED is similar to the development of the CPU. In the early days (I'm talking Z-80 here) people made a lot of money buying a lot of chips and testing them to find the hot ones. They sold these at a premium price to computer nerds.


----------



## brightnorm (Feb 26, 2008)

Mine has a flat charcoal-black body with "yellow-on-silver" LEDs. On 2x18650's it is at least twice as bright as my P3D/Q5's, perhaps even brighter. Beam is a typical cool white with the slight bluish tinge you would only notice in direct comparison to a warmer tint. The 4 crees still create the typical dark Cree ring, but it is wider and more subtle than is typical of the single Cree lights. 

I have experienced no malfunctions of any kind (yet), but I haven't used it for long runs. It would be useful to have runtime charts posted if anyone has the equipment to do this.

Based on its performance with 3xcr123's, 4xcr123's and 2x18650's I would rate this light as excellent and a real bargain at the price.

Brightnorm


----------



## Vermonter73 (Feb 27, 2008)

I'm very happy with mine.


----------



## magudaman (Feb 28, 2008)

I finally got mine the other day and am very impressed. It kills my 3 luxeon 3w mag mod light. My reason for purchasing this light though was to create myself a new bike light. I basically am hoping to get something with a similar body and screw it on to the head and have a cable run down out to an external battery pack. Does anyone know any other cheaper lights that have the same head thread pattern or have any idea's for creating a body with threads (plastic molding?)?


----------



## merkaba (Feb 28, 2008)

Good idea magudaman, ive been thinking about doing something similar too. 

Not sure what would be the best but one option would be to cut the threaded part off that screws into the head... maybe leave a small amount of the battery tube and fill it with that glue or epoxy that malkoff uses with his 4 cree mag mod. 

Im not sure what the stuff is called but i think it could be a good option to consider. Just run your 2 leads out through the epoxy and it should provide a pretty good seal.


----------



## eddielee70 (Feb 28, 2008)

have you try the T-5on the trail, it's very spotty for trail use. unless your trail is not twisty, more like road ride, then this flashlight is hard to use on the trail. maybe if you scratch up the reflectors or make it wider angle.

my beamshots of t-5 silver led and mx-power compare to other bike lights.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=4084058&postcount=19
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=382347


----------



## magudaman (Feb 28, 2008)

I didn't mention it, but I am going to be using this as a helmet mounted light. I prefer it mounted there and more spot. That is why I am sell my hid because it was too flood for trail use on my helmet.


----------



## Fusion_m8 (Feb 28, 2008)

XAK; 

cool down bro, batvette is expressing him/herself, and he/she's right to do so.

Batvette: 

but I wonder which nation was responsible for starting the "industrial revolution" in China back in the 80's that has now almost crippled the enivironment??? Oh wait...let me see... it was the profit-hungry American MNCs such as Nike, GE, Microsoft... but of course... its easier to mess up someone else's backyard rather than your own eh??




batvette said:


> I was reading through this whole thread and just saw this post. It might be a "fine business model" for those of us on the purchasing end but as I understand it, (and you, unlike me, have been there and may have seen this or know better) the standard of living of those on the botton tier in that country and others we import from is deplorable. Supposedly in China you don't see the worst of it unless you go "off the beaten path".
> 
> On a human level even if we choose to look away from the fact that we get bargains on consumer goods because someone has to work in a factory for pennies a day, and not even enjoy anything beyond basic sustainance, the global effect of the overall environmental disaster being perpetrated by Chinese industry as a whole will bite us all in the *** soon enough in the global warming problem. The brown cloud hovering over mainland China, (even though it is particulate matter, not GGE related) is symptomatic of what is going on over there. Perhaps US manufacturers would be more competetive if they could pollute with impunity and employ (near)slave labor? 90% of China's internal waterways are now considered "non-potable" because of industrial pollution. That means can't drink it, don't bathe in it, don't wash with it. That wouldn't be acceptable here.
> 
> No disrespect intended to DX or any Chinese nationals, as I am sure many wish to improve the situation, but a reality check is relevant from time to time.


----------



## Xak (Feb 28, 2008)

Oh, so it was America that screwed up China, no fault of their own, huh? Typical blame America first lefty moonbat nonsense. Coolaid anyone?

...I'm sorry, what does this have to do with LED flashlights again?:sigh:


----------



## Fusion_m8 (Feb 28, 2008)

yeah whatever mate....



Xak said:


> Oh, so it was America that screwed up China, no fault of their own, huh? Typical blame America first lefty moonbat nonsense. Coolaid anyone?
> 
> ...I'm sorry, what does this have to do with LED flashlights again?:sigh:


----------



## Xak (Feb 28, 2008)

Fusion_m8 said:


> XAK;
> 
> cool down bro, batvette is expressing him/herself, and he/she's right to do so.


 
I'm not trying to start a so-called global warming, America is bad, tooth fairies are real debate. I am on this thread to learn about this LED light as is everyone else. 

So it turns out batvette is *wrong* to express his/her ideology in this thread.

Perhaps there is a political subject area for comments like these? I have no fear of free speech and lively debate, but there is a time and place for everything. I like this forum because I can get away from all that lunacy. If the moderators don't mind I will be happy to respond to, and debate when people post their political views, but I have a feeling if the threads start getting cluttered with political banter whenever someone decides to slide in some biased comments about their views it will make people less enthusiastic towards joining our forum.


----------



## forrest (Feb 28, 2008)

Hey Is this the same light that's on ebay for 89.00? Also was considering the terralux tle 300sr for the streamlight sl20x, I hope i'm posting this on the right page as I'm new here, thanx! http://cgi.ebay.com/CREEx4-680-Lume...ryZ16037QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## Vikas Sontakke (Feb 28, 2008)

When you understand that "drop shipment" is the *most* popular item on the DX website, you will understand the ebay. 

There are lots of ebay buyers who do NOT know DX and ebay sellars want to keep it that way.

- Vikas


----------



## Vermonter73 (Feb 29, 2008)

Will folks PLEASE keep political crap out of here! If I wanted to read that junk I could find it anywhere. I come here to read about FLASHLIGHTS.


----------



## big beam (Feb 29, 2008)

big beam said:


> I ordered a grey one on Jan 12TH with some other stuff from DX and it was shipped on the 17TH.The invoice said the light was shipped but when I got the order no light.I don't even think they had the grey lights in stock on the 17TH so now we're going back and forth.They're emailing slow because of the new year and such.I hope when we get this all figured out I get one of the new lights.Got the battery's and charger but no light
> DON



So I ordered another light from DX.I guess my 50 bucks turned into vapor for the first light.I never got a responce from DX either other than it was shipped.Maybe it's all for the best and I'll get the better led's.Although I think this light ordered on 2/23 may be from a third batch because it's supposed to be shipped on 3/5.Maybe it'll have Q5's
DON
I guess you have to keep a sense of humor about ordering anything from China,because you really don't have any recourse.:shakehead


----------



## brightnorm (Feb 29, 2008)

Don,

I'm sorry you had that experience, but I have to report that I'm even more impressed with my light than before. I loaded it with fresh PILA 18650's and set it up in front of a fan for constant burn on max.

I had first checked it for overall brightness by doing a ceiling bounce comparison with a fenix P3D/Q5. It appeared 2x or more brighter than the Fenix. After 2 hours it was still noticeably brighter than the Fenix though a little dimmer than before.

At 2 hrs + 20 min. the light conked out due to PILA protective circuitry. I let it rest for about 15 seconds then turned it back on. Ceiling bounce showed that is was slightly dimmer than the fresh Fenix.

The Romisen's fairly narrow beam (though with pretty good peripheral spread) doesn't make for an ideal walking or hiking light, but it is an excellent medium short to medium distance spot/search light with surprisingly good surround light and little evidence of the notorious "Cree Ring" whcih has dogged other lights.

Brightnorm


----------



## magudaman (Feb 29, 2008)

I did a little testing with my light today to test how bright the light would be on different types of batteries. I was able to test the voltage range of 12.4v down to about 6.5v. The light is brightest starting at about 10.8v and up (stays the same when over 10.8v). Below 10.8v and I was able to see a fairly linear drop in brightness. At 9v or 3 123a cells it was still pretty darn bright but dimmer than 4 cells. Below 9v it started drop fairly rapidly in brightness. I plan on running mine on external 3x 18650 cells so should remain bright through the life of the battery. 

Does any one know what the peak input voltage is on this light?

BigBeam:

They forgot to send my 50mw laser that was supposed to come in the box my light did. I contacted and filled out that missing item form with pictures. After about 7 emails back and forth I got it worked out and they are shipping me one. Make sure your using the express help pages: http://services.dealextreme.com/ . They got back to me with in a day or so. This all happened in the last week or so.


----------



## dda (Feb 29, 2008)

delete


----------



## brightnorm (Mar 1, 2008)

magudaman said:


> ... I plan on running mine on external 3x 18650 cells so should remain bright through the life of the battery.


magudaman,

I'm not sure what you mean by external cells. Are they in some kind of belt pack or container you're using on a bike? Or do you have extensions that permit you to load 3x18650's directly into the light. If so, where do you get these extra extensions? Only one came with my light that enabled me to use 2x18650's.

Brightnorm


----------



## magudaman (Mar 1, 2008)

I have a post one page earlier that shows that I want to build an attachment that adds a wire to the head to allow me to use and external battery pack. I usually throw this pack in a pocket or my camel pack.


----------



## brightnorm (Mar 1, 2008)

Looks interesting.

BN


----------



## rizky_p (Mar 1, 2008)

100,000 views? this my best thread so far :devil:


----------



## mac66 (Mar 1, 2008)

I am not a fanatic like many of you guys, I have a 25 year old rechargeable Mag light, a rechargeable Brinkman and a couple other lights so my question about the light in this thread is comparing it to the lights I have.

1. How would this 4 Cree light compare to my Magcharger in terms of throw, brightness, weight, length?

2. I recently got involved in search and rescue (SAR) as a volunteer. Would this Cree light be good for that purpose. Of is there something better. Kind of looking to get the same bang as the Magcharger but in a smaller/lighter package.


----------



## matrixshaman (Mar 1, 2008)

Hmmm - 279 posts and not a single beamshot? Well mac66 I can't say about this light as I don't own it and haven't read all this thread - just looked through it for a beamshot. But if I was using a light for SAR I'd probably go with something different. And yes you'll find a ton of lights that would be better for you both in terms of brightness and efficiency and longer runtime. Google search may help or start a thread with that question. I'd first look for something that runs on 18650 rechargeable batteries - one of the best for runtime and performance/power. There are a lot of lights that can use this battery including the older Surefire U2's (if you can find one that would be a good choice but a bit higher priced). Take a look around www.dealextreme.com and you'll see a lot of choices. Slow shipping but best prices. Look at the Tiablo A9, A8 and Dereelights, also Lumapower.


----------



## dulridge (Mar 1, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> Hmmm - 279 posts and not a single beamshot? Well mac66 I can't say about this light as I don't own it and haven't read all this thread - just looked through it for a beamshot.



Perhaps because there is a thread called Romisen RC-T5 4-Cree beamshots

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/185235

There are also some here compared to various other more powerful lights

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/189391


----------



## Vikas Sontakke (Mar 1, 2008)

With DX, you should be willing to give up the DX points and order each item individually. Don't even add 99cent item to round up to ten dollar multiple. One of my order had a magnet order. They send me 5 magnet and an IOU on the rest of the 5! But they did ship the rest of the magnets later.

- Vikas


----------



## mac66 (Mar 1, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> Hmmm - 279 posts and not a single beamshot? Well mac66 I can't say about this light as I don't own it and haven't read all this thread - just looked through it for a beamshot. But if I was using a light for SAR I'd probably go with something different. And yes you'll find a ton of lights that would be better for you both in terms of brightness and efficiency and longer runtime. Google search may help or start a thread with that question. I'd first look for something that runs on 18650 rechargeable batteries - one of the best for runtime and performance/power. There are a lot of lights that can use this battery including the older Surefire U2's (if you can find one that would be a good choice but a bit higher priced). Take a look around www.dealextreme.com and you'll see a lot of choices. Slow shipping but best prices. Look at the Tiablo A9, A8 and Dereelights, also Lumapower.



I've bought a few things from dealextreme. The problem is there are too many choices.


----------



## big beam (Mar 1, 2008)

Hey brightnorm
I told DX that I don't have a DC and even if I did I don't know how to post pics.They wanted a pic of the shipping envelope but it got pitched out weeks ago.I stated my problem with the old ticket system and in the middle they changed systems.(You can't submit a problem with your order without pics with the new system) so I'm just SOL.
DON


----------



## forrest (Mar 1, 2008)

I`m getting ready to order one of these 4 cree's, just wanted to be sure that using protected 18650's fit without any issues, and what charger do you guys recommend for the protected 18650's,I was looking at the ultafire 3.6/3.7 sku1251. Do you think this is a nice unit? this is a great forum and I have the "flashlight bug!" Thanx for the help!


----------



## dulridge (Mar 1, 2008)

forrest said:


> I`m getting ready to order one of these 4 cree's, just wanted to be sure that using protected 18650's fit without any issues, and what charger do you guys recommend for the protected 18650's,I was looking at the ultafire 3.6/3.7 sku1251. Do you think this is a nice unit? this is a great forum and I have the "flashlight bug!" Thanx for the help!



No trouble at all with protected or unprotected 18650s here - they all fit. In fact they fit far better than RCR123 cells.

I use that charger, it is currently charging a pair of protected 18650s from the 4 Cree light. It is alleged to overcharge unprotected cells, but mine doesn't - RCR123 cells at 4.17V after 8hr charging (I fell asleep).


----------



## forrest (Mar 1, 2008)

Thanx dulridge! I.m going to make the plunge on this light and accessories, I'm sure it will out shine my stinger hp's, look forward to getting it!


----------



## dulridge (Mar 1, 2008)

I think you will enjoy it - I certainly like mine and it sounds like the more recent ones are brighter. I got mine when they first appeared on DX.


----------



## brightnorm (Mar 1, 2008)

big beam said:


> Hey brightnorm
> I told DX that I don't have a DC and even if I did I don't know how to post pics.They wanted a pic of the shipping envelope but it got pitched out weeks ago.I stated my problem with the old ticket system and in the middle they changed systems.(You can't submit a problem with your order without pics with the new system) so I'm just SOL.
> DON


Very frustrating!

BN


----------



## W-c.Scenario (Mar 1, 2008)

You can easily mod it if your brand of batteries dont fit,
remove the thingie in the main tube like in the pics below, more info here ->Link<-


----------



## Xak (Mar 2, 2008)

I ordered one along with a couple other lights on Jan 11th. I got the other 2, but still haven't gotten the 4 Cree. They said they were backordered and gave me an estimate of 2/25. Haven't heard a thing still. Ordered a couple $13 lights from that other Chinese site "Kaidomain" or something weeks ago because it said "ready to ship in 1 to 2 days", and they told me they were sending it the other day after I ordered it weeks ago! Not ordering from China anymore. Gonna wait till America catches up with the new technology, pay more, and buy American!


----------



## magudaman (Mar 2, 2008)

I finished the bike light modification on the light tonight and went for my first ride with it. Let me first say “I LOVE IT!” This light is so great when it is attached to your head. I honestly feel it is very close to a perfect spot beam for a head mounted bike light. I showed to light to a fellow biker friend tonight and he said that he wants one, so were building another.

As for the mod I built the adapter so that it can be unscrewed and re-inserted if I wanted to use the flashlight in a normal 123a style again. The two contact surfaces are made out of copper wire and copper pipe. I was able to attach wire direct to those two points. The plastic sections are made from 1/2 in sprinkler parts from home depot. 











Overall this set is very sturdy and easy to love. I used the mount brackets off of a niterider classic to make sturdy helmet mount. It is far brighter than my dads recently purchased niterider Minewt x2 light and around a 1/3 the cost. Great mod!


----------



## petrev (Mar 2, 2008)

magudaman said:


> I finished the bike light modification on the light tonight and went for my first ride with it. Let me first say “I LOVE IT!”
> . . .


 
Hi magudaman

Very nice

Thanks for the pix.
Pete


----------



## Swedpat (Mar 2, 2008)

mac66 said:


> I am not a fanatic like many of you guys, I have a 25 year old rechargeable Mag light, a rechargeable Brinkman and a couple other lights so my question about the light in this thread is comparing it to the lights I have.
> 
> 1. How would this 4 Cree light compare to my Magcharger in terms of throw, brightness, weight, length?
> 
> 2. I recently got involved in search and rescue (SAR) as a volunteer. Would this Cree light be good for that purpose. Of is there something better. Kind of looking to get the same bang as the Magcharger but in a smaller/lighter package.


 
mac66,

I have a new MagCharger. I suppose this model is quite equal as yours. 
If the stated brightness of this 4Cree is true it will easy outperform the MagCharger when it comes to total brightness. The MagCharger is a great thrower when focuse the beam, however (outperforms the Tiablo A9 and likely all other LED-throwers), and will easy outperform the 4Cree light when it comes to throw.
This 4Cree is more light weight and compact than the MagCharger.

Regards, Patric


----------



## brightnorm (Mar 2, 2008)

magudaman said:


> I finished the bike light modification on the light tonight and went for my first ride with it. Let me first say “I LOVE IT!” ...


 
Good job! What batteries are you using; can you show us the pack?

Brightnorm


----------



## Vermonter73 (Mar 3, 2008)

magudaman said:


> I finished the bike light modification on the light tonight and went for my first ride with it. Let me first say “I LOVE IT!”



Looks good! Thanks for the ideas. I bought this light with the plan of using it on the bars. Seems a bit heavy for the helmet, and I find that only having a helmet light hurts my depth perception. Now that I've played with it a bit, I'm going to be ordering more of them. It's a real bargain at $50, even if I have to wait a month for my order.


----------



## magudaman (Mar 4, 2008)

It sounds like you already have your light but I think the beam is pretty tight if you were to try using it as handle bar mounted. You might need to find a way to defuse it some. I have went on 3 ride with mine so far and also think it is an amazing bargain.


----------



## Photon_Whisperer (Mar 5, 2008)

Wow, just spent an 2 hours reading this thread. Maybe having mine backordered was a good thing

I can't help but laugh though, people debating whether it's worth it to spend $50 on a well machined Al bodied light, with 4 Q4 LEDs, that puts out 300-500 lumensLighting has come a long way


----------



## big beam (Mar 5, 2008)

Got a new ETA on my 2nd 4 cree grey light.3-12.Was that 09 or 08
DON


----------



## henni (Mar 6, 2008)

hi magudaman

nice bikelight, i did the same.




> Does any one know what the peak input voltage is on this light?


any answer?


----------



## big beam (Mar 7, 2008)

Hey Xak
I just got an E-Mail that my light was shipped on 3/6.Have you heard anything about your light yet?
DON

I hope I get a bright one.This one cost me a 100 bucks.(The one I never got and the one I'm waiting for).


----------



## forrest (Mar 7, 2008)

I ordered mine about a week ago along with a charger and some other things, got a email yesterday that a shipment has been made (all the things except the light), the flashlight is still pending


----------



## Xak (Mar 7, 2008)

big beam said:


> Hey Xak
> I just got an E-Mail that my light was shipped on 3/6.Have you heard anything about your light yet?
> DON
> 
> I hope I get a bright one.This one cost me a 100 bucks.(The one I never got and the one I'm waiting for).



Was just notified today it has been shipped. I hope I get the newer version with the brighter LED's. I don't think I will order from these types of internet sites again. The other site, kaidomen or something, advertised a light as being ready to ship in 1-2 days. It's been like a month and a half and they finally asked me if I mind the light in black instead of silver. I replied yes, and a couple weeks later still no word if they have shipped.

I have an Amilite T5 on the way that truly did ship next day. This light (from what I've read and anticipate) should hold me off for a while.

After that it's all American for me. Thinking either Inova T3 or Insight Typhoon 2 maybe this summer.


----------



## Alan (Mar 7, 2008)

Don't take their word that shipment was made. 

My experience : They claimed products were shipped on Jan 8, 08 on their system. When I received it on Feb. 22, 08. The document attached (prepared by DX) was dated Jan 28 and HK Post stamped Feb. 21, 08.

By the way, 2 items were missed in the package They promised to ship back (don't know when) after I attached whole bundle of pictures to them.

DX carries many interesting products. It's fun to have them (especially with their low price) as long as you don't mind waiting for a month or 2.

This is the price to pay for low priced service

Alan


----------



## forrest (Mar 8, 2008)

Just got an email that the flashlight has been shipped!. This will work fine as I'll get the charger and batteries first and they will be ready for the light when it arrives!


----------



## Xak (Mar 8, 2008)

Alan said:


> Don't take their word that shipment was made.
> 
> My experience : They claimed products were shipped on Jan 8, 08 on their system. When I received it on Feb. 22, 08. The document attached (prepared by DX) was dated Jan 28 and HK Post stamped Feb. 21, 08.
> 
> ...



Right, you have a point, and I was prepared to wait a long time for these lights. But, now that America is catching up with the new LED technology I will gladly be paying pay more for American products.

I just had to have this crazy 4 Cree light, and while I was on their website I was like "oh, and this one, and this one... This one too!", etc.


----------



## forrest (Mar 8, 2008)

Well you guys know how to burst my bubble!! I hope my order goes without any issues


----------



## big beam (Mar 8, 2008)

Most of the stuff I got from DX I get in about 2 weeks.The only problem I ever had with them was with this light.I'm getting off topic(again) so I will end my rant.....for now.I'll post my thoughts on this light when I get it.
DON


----------



## Mike Painter (Mar 8, 2008)

Hate to change the subject from delivery to the light itself, but I've only seen one graph of runtime.
It compared the two battery types but said nothing about high vs low.
Has anybody done any?


----------



## Alan (Mar 9, 2008)

DX does carry good stuffs and get shipment fast (a few weeks) if they have stock in hand or the supplier was located nearby. I did order one MTE C3 Q5 and got it in 2 weeks (I am located around 3 hours drive from them). In fact, I just ordered 2 more earlier today and don't mind waiting for 2 weeks or 1 month.

Alan


----------



## Alan (Mar 9, 2008)

Mike Painter said:


> Hate to change the subject from delivery to the light itself, but I've only seen one graph of runtime.
> It compared the two battery types but said nothing about high vs low.
> Has anybody done any?



Oops.. I posted before I read this:-(

Alan


----------



## dulridge (Mar 9, 2008)

Mike Painter said:


> Hate to change the subject from delivery to the light itself, but I've only seen one graph of runtime.
> It compared the two battery types but said nothing about high vs low.
> Has anybody done any?



Not got the kit to do graphs. It runs 2:20 on my cheapo protected 18650s on high. It runs about 1:15 on my "800mAh" RCR123s. It is pulling 515mA on high on freshly charged RCR123s, 210mA on low, and 250mA in its flashing mode, so by extrapolation I'd expect about 2:30 on low with RCR123s.

With a pair of "2500mAh" protected 18650s it draws 950mA on high, 380mA on low and about 470mA in the flashing mode. So my one will run for 950/380 x 140 min = 350min or 5:50 on low.

I certainly have not the patience to check this manually....


----------



## Mike Painter (Mar 9, 2008)

dulridge said:


> Not got the kit to do graphs. It runs 2:20 on my cheapo protected 18650s on high. It runs about 1:15 on my "800mAh" RCR123s. It is pulling 515mA on high on freshly charged RCR123s, 210mA on low, and 250mA in its flashing mode, so by extrapolation I'd expect about 2:30 on low with RCR123s.
> 
> With a pair of "2500mAh" protected 18650s it draws 950mA on high, 380mA on low and about 470mA in the flashing mode. So my one will run for 950/380 x 140 min = 350min or 5:50 on low.
> 
> I certainly have not the patience to check this manually....




Thanks. I don't see any problem checking it manually 
Is it off yet? Is it off yet? Isit off yet? Isitoff yet? Isitoffyet?


----------



## dulridge (Mar 9, 2008)

Mike Painter said:


> Thanks. I don't see any problem checking it manually
> Is it off yet? Is it off yet? Isit off yet? Isitoff yet? Isitoffyet?



Basic problem is the length of time it takes. Sleep and work and boring things like that tend to intervene


----------



## batvette (Mar 13, 2008)

Xak said:


> A reality check? Here's a reality check: Not everyone here cares for or shares your socialist political views. This is a forum about LED lights, not the poor in other countries, so-called global warming, or pixie dust.
> 
> Like that turtle from the Comcast commercials said: "Maybe you should take your lecture to a conference full of people who like lectures!"


 
Oh, my eyes must be failing me- I seem to not be able to see where it says "admin" in this post by the self appointed enforcer of topical content. 

Those with better vision than I can see that my reply was to the point relevant to the post I quoted from, and what he's mistaken as a leftist stance is so off the mark it is laughable. The other user called China a fine business model, I for one do not agree, and I was not whining for the plight of third world people but lamenting the hit to our standard of living if we competed on equal footing. It doesn't seem too far off the issue of a certain flashlight when we're discussing how it comes to be such a bargain. 

In any case you are calling a registered Republican and military veteran a socialist? Hah! As if anyone cares look up my username on boardreader or even google, I eat leftists and peaceniks for breakfast. If that sounds arrogant you didn't check those search results and see what they have to say about me. Newshounds.... MTBR f88..... IMDB..... Please. I've spent 5 years exposing the lies of Bush hating anti-war nincompoops, socialism is the last thing I am about. 

In any case I have posted repeatedly in this topic about this flashlight, it's hard to say I'm not here to contribute in a relevant way. 

So let's get on it. Does anyone have a cluie what light is shipping now? I still want a bright 4 cree, not the mediocre one I already have (again). It seemed the second batch of grey ones were all white emitters?


----------



## Xak (Mar 15, 2008)

batvette said:


> Oh, my eyes must be failing me- I seem to not be able to see where it says "admin" in this post by the self appointed enforcer of topical content.
> 
> Those with better vision than I can see that my reply was to the point relevant to the post I quoted from, and what he's mistaken as a leftist stance is so off the mark it is laughable. The other user called China a fine business model, I for one do not agree, and I was not whining for the plight of third world people but lamenting the hit to our standard of living if we competed on equal footing. It doesn't seem too far off the issue of a certain flashlight when we're discussing how it comes to be such a bargain.
> 
> ...



Well if I'm mistaken I apologize. Every once in a great while I drink faster than I type and the outcome is poor. Even if we agree politically I don't think it belongs in this section of the forum.

Thank you for you service BTW. They won't take me because I have 2 ruptured disks in my neck. Unfortunately I am very fit otherwise and have skills they could use. Oh well. But, back to LED lights. :shakehead


----------



## batvette (Mar 15, 2008)

Xak said:


> Well if I'm mistaken I apologize. Every once in a great while I drink faster than I type and the outcome is poor. Even if we agree politically I don't think it belongs in this section of the forum.
> 
> Thank you for you service BTW. They won't take me because I have 2 ruptured disks in my neck. Unfortunately I am very fit otherwise and have skills they could use. Oh well. But, back to LED lights. :shakehead


 
an apology makes you more man than perhaps 95% of the people I encounter on the internet.... so I'll return the gesture and say I apologize for derailing the forum's topic of discussion. 

Not sure I can recommend military service to folks anymore. I'd do it again, it was exciting, I was 17 and wanted thrills and got to work on F-4 Phantoms on the flight deck of the USS Coral Sea, mostly at night even. Most of our sea duty was our planes scrambling to fend off Soviet nuclear bombers probing our defenses. 

It seems trashing your country's leadership with false accusations is now called "new patriotism" and men get sent to hell and back to have it all called a "mistake". I can't remember anyone saying winning the cold war was a mistake. 

In light of the competetion we face now like the EU and Asia, maybe it was so I digress.

I wonder what kind of light I'd be using if I was on the flight deck today? Back then it was the ages old angle light with thick blue filter, we always worked as if we could be at war in a hour if we had to so blackout conditions prevailed. Damn things were so dim you always bashed your shins on the tiedown chains!


----------



## batvette (Mar 15, 2008)

I see you're waiting for this light as well, please let us know if you get a "good" one with the brighter led's. Did you order grey or black? Seemed to me the second batch of the grey ones was the one to get, I got a black one, was pretty underwhelmed with it and am willing to throw another $50 their way if it's the better performer. 
But even the one I have is still better than anythng I can find for the $$$ around town. 
I might still go for a wolf-eyes HID. I have the Sam's HID, too big but output along those lines. I want something I can fit in my hand-even stuff in a pocket- that is so damn bright people run in terror. 

Is that so wrong?


----------



## Vermonter73 (Mar 15, 2008)

I think the real potential in these lights is going to reveal itself when people start doing mods to it. The stock driver is pretty bad.


----------



## big beam (Mar 15, 2008)

well I got the 2nd light I ordered today.Nice fit & finish VERY bright but it does"flicka" in low mode with Aw's 18650 until the voltage drops a little.When I ordered the 1st light I also ordered 2- trustfire 18650's (the grey ones) just to see how good they are.The light don't flicker with those batteries maybe they have more voltage sag,don't know.Over all I like this light .Now I can't wait until some lights start coming out with that new P7 SSC emitter.If this light runs at 400-500ma per emitter all I can say is the P7 @ 700 per die is going to give some of the hotwires a run for there money:huh:Been looking forward to this!

BTW mine draws .84 on high and .42 on low with batts @ 4.15 V
DON


----------



## forrest (Mar 15, 2008)

Hey Big, just curious, when did you order yours? I'm awaiting mine. I ordered it on the 4th of this month, and the dx tracking shows it left hong king on the 7th, Thanx; Forrest


----------



## big beam (Mar 15, 2008)

2/23.DX shipped mine on 3/6 so you should be getting yours any day.You will be AMAZED.On low, 50% it's as bright as my deerelight Q2 on high.It's still not dark here yet but I've been playing in my celler.
DON


----------



## TomBrown (Mar 15, 2008)

I still like mine but have discovered it is not very reliable. Sometimes I have to rap the head against my hand to make it come on.

It definitely isn't reliable enough, as is, to be a bike light. It would be off as much as it's on.

When it's on, however, it is fantastic. If I can get the problem sorted, it will be a great bike light.


----------



## eddielee70 (Mar 15, 2008)

TomBrown said:


> I still like mine but have discovered it is not very reliable. Sometimes I have to rap the head against my hand to make it come on.
> 
> It definitely isn't reliable enough, as is, to be a bike light. It would be off as much as it's on.
> 
> When it's on, however, it is fantastic. If I can get the problem sorted, it will be a great bike light.



it's your batteries, I had problem with the batteries connection, so I use those dealextreme 8mm magnets to make sure it's a good connection and it had not fail me( sometimes off and sometimes on) after that.


----------



## Xak (Mar 17, 2008)

batvette said:


> It seems trashing your country's leadership with false accusations is now called "new patriotism" and men get sent to hell and back to have it all called a "mistake". I can't remember anyone saying winning the cold war was a mistake.



+1 brotha


----------



## Xak (Mar 17, 2008)

batvette said:


> I see you're waiting for this light as well, please let us know if you get a "good" one with the brighter led's. Did you order grey or black? Seemed to me the second batch of the grey ones was the one to get, I got a black one, was pretty underwhelmed with it and am willing to throw another $50 their way if it's the better performer.
> But even the one I have is still better than anythng I can find for the $$$ around town.
> I might still go for a wolf-eyes HID. I have the Sam's HID, too big but output along those lines. I want something I can fit in my hand-even stuff in a pocket- that is so damn bright people run in terror.
> 
> Is that so wrong?



Shoot, I ordered a black one, but long after I ordered mine people have ordered their own and already recieved them with the brighter LEDs (what color body I have no idea). Hope I get a good one. If not, hey, it's only $50.

If I get a crappy one it'll give me an excuse to get one of the new P7 lights when they come out.


----------



## big beam (Mar 17, 2008)

Hey Xak,
I ordered the grey one

I'm saving my change for a P7 light also.
DON


----------



## wasBlinded (Mar 17, 2008)

I just finished some measurements of the head attached to a bench power supply. Voltage was measured at the head, and current from the BK1743 power supply readout. I don't have the exact numbers right next to me, I'm back at work. But, the gist of it is that the light pulls about 7 watts between 8 volts and 16 volts. That means it draws almost one amp at 8 volts and only 500 milliamps at 16 volts.

Below 8 volts, the current drops quickly. What this implies is that the light will run in full regulation and output for about half the capacity of two Li-on cells like 18650's (which would come to about an hour), with declining output for the second half (which would extend out for a few hours I suspect).

It also means that the emitters are probably being driven with about 6 watts of power total (after driver circuit losses), or about 1.5 watts each, or somewhere around 500 mA to each LED. I'm guessing that the light put about 300 lumens out the front after reflector/lens losses.

These measurements were on the "high" setting. I didn't try low. Also keep in mind that due to variations in emitter Vf, yours may not behave exactly as mine did.


----------



## Xak (Mar 19, 2008)

Holy crap! Got mine today. Got a black one with the newer LEDs.

1: It is bright as hell.

2: On low it is bright as hell. Way brighter than my Amilite T5 on high.

3: I was disappointed with the strobe feature. It blinks, it doesn't strobe.

4: It is built like a tank and built well. It was solid, thicker than I thought it would be, and heavier than I thought it would be. The threads are great and came lubed.

5: It functions perfectly, however the tailcap button is difficult to operate unless you grip the light all the way back because it is flush with the back of the light.

Very happy with this light. I can't believe I only paid $50 for it! It is definitely best for outdoor use, though!


----------



## big beam (Mar 19, 2008)

Hey Xak
Glad you got it.They are nice lights.I hope romisen comes out with a P7 version of this light.
DON


----------



## forrest (Mar 19, 2008)

That's great! Mine should be here in the next couple of days> What batteries are you using? I will be using the 18650,s


----------



## freshmaker (Mar 20, 2008)

Got mine today. Ordered from DX on 3/6 and received 3/19. The emitters are white/silver substrate. This sucker is bright! 

As a junior flashaholic, and only buying the less expensive Chinese stuff, I feel confident in saying that Romisen has some of the best quality control and machining of any light I've purchased- on par with the Rexlights I just received. The machining and fit/finish is top notch. On close inspection there's one minor whorl in the anodizing in one of the planed indents but I had to look closely. An RC-F4 just received is equally impressive (also white base emitter, no idea of binning). I'll leave it to the pros to discuss the electrical specs but on a mechanical level this unit is superb.

The holster is also well thought out with velcro and snaps for 3 and 4 cr123a configs.

This light is sure to be backordered again soon at DX... hesitate at your own peril!


----------



## Winx (Mar 20, 2008)

I got my RC-T5 few days ago with 2*18650. I compared it to RC-F4 and surprised it wasn't brighter at all. Pretty much the same. I did some measurements and something isn't as it should be with two batteries. With three and four it's much brighter.

2*18650 at 8.24v
High 350 mA
Low 170 mA
Strobe max. 240 mA

3*18650 at 12.42v
High 670 mA
Low 270 mA
Strobe max. 450 mA

4*18650 at 16.50v
High 530 mA
Low 220 mA
Strobe max. 360 mA

I don't have CR123A's so I just put third and fourth battery in line without tube. My multimeter is slow, so no exact measurement at strobe mode.

Can I try something or just send it back to DX?


----------



## Photon_Whisperer (Mar 21, 2008)

Got mine in today It has the "silver" emitters. Worked great with two 18650s. Then I tried to use 4 RCR123s (Ultrafire protected) and as reported, the batts were too long and I ended up crushing one and it's now dead:shakehead Couldn't figure out how to remove the spacer plug at the end of the tube and was banging on it for a while Then I realized it was screwed on but there are no holes to torque it with so I heated up my needle nose pliers, and then pressed them to the plastic spacer plug forming my own torquing holes and easily unscrewed them out:thumbsup: Now I just gotta wait for my backup RCR123s to charge and I'll test light output of 4xCR123s vs 2x18650s.


----------



## Photon_Whisperer (Mar 21, 2008)

Alright, from my tests, there's no difference in initial light output between RCR123s and 18650s.

The first test I did was done using a makeshift integrating sphere, which I call my bathroom I had my camera set on a tripod and the light was set to the same exact location each time (bounced on the wall behind the camera). Details are:

ISO: 500
Shutter: 1/20s
f-stop: 5.0
WB: Sunlight
Camera: 1Ds MkII
Focal Length: 16mm

With 4 RCR123s






With 2 18650s:






Beamshots at f8, 1/50s, and ISO 250:

With 2 18650s:





With 4 RCR123s:





It's not so easy to see here but toggling between the 2 "integrated light" photos in Adobe Lightroom shows absolutely no difference in brightness. In the beamshots, it looks like there might be a very slight difference with the 2 18650 beam being slightly brighter but with these shots, I had to handhold the light so they aren't alligned the same and I may have just hit a more specular portion of the reflection.

So it seems consistent with what people are saying, not much difference between the battery options with the "newer" lights.


----------



## KRS1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Got mine like a month ago, it feel good when its in my hand. 

In term of brighness it tend to flood more than throw.

I tried with 2x 18650 work nicely but when tried with 4 xcr123 it didnt turn on.  

my MX power brighness about approximately the same as T4 but MX can throw alittle further than T4 ( due to deeper reflector?)


----------



## Gunner12 (Mar 22, 2008)

Winx said:


> I got my RC-T5 few days ago with 2*18650. I compared it to RC-F4 and surprised it wasn't brighter at all...
> 
> Can I try something or just send it back to DX?



I think it runs better with 9v and up(from some posts I've read), so your light seems to have the same characteristic. It should be fine.


----------



## Xak (Mar 22, 2008)

forrest said:


> That's great! Mine should be here in the next couple of days> What batteries are you using? I will be using the 18650,s



4 123 3V Surefires. 

I wonder if it would be much brighter if I got 123 3.7V rechargeable batteries.

Anyone know what sort of gasket or ring is around the front of the glass? Could it be replaced with a glow in the dark one?


----------



## forrest (Mar 22, 2008)

Got mine a couple of days ago, Tried it first in my 30x 40 shop with the doors all closed I was'nt impressed comparing it with a 4d mag/ task force/ streamlight hp with and without led upgrade. The task force seemed brighter. But at night in the yard WOWW the rom t-5 showed it's colors! it really is a "wall of light" Great spill and a decent throw, very well made also. Funny , I ordered 2 sets of prot. 18650 trustfires and ultrafires one battery would,nt charge, only held .980 volts after charging for hours. Contacted dx and they sent me a new set of them. Anyway the bad battery fell on the floor and I checked the voltage again and it was up to normal! and now charges fine, go figure. Kinda feel bad about getting a new set now, Kudos to dx for their great cust. service though!


----------



## Winx (Mar 22, 2008)

Gunner12 said:


> I think it runs better with 9v and up(from some posts I've read), so your light seems to have the same characteristic. It should be fine.




I was hoping I could use 18650's. 350 mA is weird, since everyone else reports 950 mA. That can't be right. :thumbsdow


----------



## Steve L (Mar 22, 2008)

Winx said:


> I was hoping I could use 18650's. 350 mA is weird, since everyone else reports 950 mA. That can't be right. :thumbsdow


That doesn't sound right at all. At 8.4v (fully charged-best case scenario) X 350 ma = 2.94watts / 4 = .735 watts per LED. At 950ma X 8.4v = 7.98w / 4 = 1.995 watts per LED, much better. These numbers do not take into account circuit losses(the actual watts per LED will be less).


----------



## wasBlinded (Mar 22, 2008)

I like this light, it seems very well made for a mere $50. It isn't as bright as I would have expected from four good Crees, even being driven at a mere 500 mA each, which is what I calculate the stock driver circuit is doing.

I've ordered a Shark+Remora board from the Sandwich Shoppe so I can drive all four in series at 1000 mA on high. This should be OK for short periods hand held, or continuous use on the bicycle where air flow should keep it cool enough.

Hopefully I'll then have an impressively bright $100 light with a less frustrating user interface.


----------



## Photon_Whisperer (Mar 22, 2008)

fa__ said:


> In fact, it's easy to unscrew the whole heatsink with leds glued on an driver inside


 
How did you unscrew it? By applying torque on the springs? Did you have to drill holes on the heatsink? Mine have some heatsink glue on the threads and are tight.


----------



## freshmaker (Mar 23, 2008)

wasBlinded said:


> I like this light, it seems very well made for a mere $50. It isn't as bright as I would have expected from four good Crees, even being driven at a mere 500 mA each, which is what I calculate the stock driver circuit is doing.
> 
> I've ordered a Shark+Remora board from the Sandwich Shoppe so I can drive all four in series at 1000 mA on high. This should be OK for short periods hand held, or continuous use on the bicycle where air flow should keep it cool enough.
> 
> Hopefully I'll then have an impressively bright $100 light with a less frustrating user interface.



What are your plans for heat dissipation? 

It seems to me that there might be a small market for an emitter board that incorporated the circuit path with more metal and more subsequent heatsinking .


----------



## Photon_Whisperer (Mar 23, 2008)

freshmaker said:


> What are your plans for heat dissipation?
> 
> It seems to me that there might be a small market for an emitter board that incorporated the circuit path with more metal and more subsequent heatsinking .



I think it's possible to drive the LEDs at 1A/ea if you just fill in the void between the module base and the tube head with thermal adhesive. There's a lot of surface area there that's just wasted. Most of the heat has to be conducted through the threads which doesn't transfer much it seems.


----------



## Jazchau (Mar 24, 2008)

Hello all,

I've been reading this thread since I ordered this light from DX about 3 weeks ago. I finally received it yesterday and been playing with it using the different battery options. I noticed it is a lot brighter with 4x RCR123 vs. 2x 18650. So I decided to run it through the bench DC power supply to see what its V-I curve looks like. Below is a graph that reveals some interesting aspects of this light's performance.

From the graph, the take-away is:

1) To get the full brightness, you need to feed it 10V or higher. Above 10V the regulation is pretty flat at about 7.7W.

2) Below 10V the brightness takes a huge dip. The current went from 0.77A to 0.12A !!!

3) Between 10V and 8V this light not so hot, with the worst brightness at just below 10V. This explains why the brightness is disappointing with 2 fully charged 18650's at 8.2V.

4) At 8V the light flickers.

5) Below 8V there's no regulation at all and the brightness drops off linearly with decreasing voltage.

Hope this helps to shed some light on this topic.


----------



## Mike Painter (Mar 24, 2008)

Jazchau said:


> Hello all,
> 
> 2) Below 10V the brightness takes a huge dip. The current went from 0.77A to 0.12A !!!
> Hope this helps to shed some light on this topic.



Interesting, justr a few post above we have someone saying there is little differences between batteries and reading through all of them we can get WOW to ho-hum.

Something isn't right.


----------



## dda (Mar 24, 2008)

I have two of these lights in black. One has the yellow base LEDs and one has the newer silver base LEDs. Both lights draw 950 ma on freshly charged 18650 batteries and 550 ma on freshly charged 123s. I can tell a little difference in brightness between the 2x18650 and 4xrcr123s but very little. When using the same battery configuration in both lights, the brightness appears to be equal between the two lights. When shined on a white wall one of the lights has a slightly purple tint and one a slightly blue tint. When shined separately, both lights appear to be white. I use magnet discs on the + end of the protected 18650s to make sure I get good contact.


----------



## Photon_Whisperer (Mar 24, 2008)

Mike Painter said:


> Interesting, justr a few post above we have someone saying there is little differences between batteries and reading through all of them we can get WOW to ho-hum.
> 
> Something isn't right.



I'm thinking they may have made an undocumented change with the boards like they did with the emitters. Nothing unusual these Chinese lights. Some might call it inconsistency, some might call it improvements. I'm just glad I got the newer one


----------



## Winx (Mar 24, 2008)

Somehow I'm glad, that here is another RC-T5 with same kind of problem.

I emailed them and I'm going to send this back to them. I Hope I don't get similar back.


----------



## wasBlinded (Mar 24, 2008)

freshmaker said:


> What are your plans for heat dissipation?


 
For relatively short periods hand held at 1 amp, the heat sinking won't be much of an issue. On the bicycle, constant airflow over the light will keep temperatures lower, even with less than optimal transfer from the mounting plate to the head. Some thermal compound on the threads will be of some help too.


----------



## wasBlinded (Mar 24, 2008)

To address the findings of *Jazchau*, I'll post my measurements. There may be a lot of variablility in the Vf of the LEDs that are used in these lights, so voltage vs. current draws may vary quite a bit sample to sample. Here is what I got, measuring voltage _at the head_ with a separate DMM.

Volt Amp
6.0 .26
6.5 .51
7.0 .80
7.5 .88
7.8 .87
8.0 .86
8.5 .84
9.0 .82
9.5 .76
10.0 .75
11.0 .68
12.0 .62
14.0 .54
16.0 .48


----------



## Jazchau (Mar 24, 2008)

wasBlinded,

Thanks for posting your numbers. Obviously the driver on my light is doing something weird below 10V. As I noted on my previous post, the current took a big drop just below 10V and then it rises sharply again near 8V. I did this several times and the result is the same. So definitely the unit I have is not behaving normally compared to yours. Well I guess I'm going to contact DX to see what they can do.

Overall, I'm pleasantly surprised at how well made this light is for the price. I may order a couple more and hopefully those won't have the issue as the one I have.


----------



## Winx (Mar 24, 2008)

Jazchau said:


> Well I guess I'm going to contact DX to see what they can do.




I bet they'll ask you to send it back for replacement. They told me to do so.


----------



## wasBlinded (Mar 24, 2008)

Francois -

What did you have to do to remove the circuit board assembly from the main heat sink???


----------



## Glowjob (Mar 27, 2008)

I just got mine and I beleive its a dud. with 2 18650's its 1/4 as bright as a photon keychain led. with 4 RCR123, it either wont turn on or is bright as a glow in the dark sticker after 10 minutes in the dark. I've tried 2 other sets of batteries and had the same problem. Is there somthing that I should try before I send it back, or do I have to wait for its one month journey replacement trip? Such a bummer since the other light in my order had the same problem! very dissapointing!


----------



## Photon_Whisperer (Mar 27, 2008)

Glowjob said:


> I just got mine and I beleive its a dud. with 2 18650's its 1/4 as bright as a photon keychain led. with 4 RCR123, it either wont turn on or is bright as a glow in the dark sticker after 10 minutes in the dark. I've tried 2 other sets of batteries and had the same problem. Is there somthing that I should try before I send it back, or do I have to wait for its one month journey replacement trip? Such a bummer since the other light in my order had the same problem! very dissapointing!



Are you sure you are not over tightening it? That's similar to what happens when you crush protected batteries.


----------



## Xak (Mar 29, 2008)

When you unscrew the tail cap, does the clickie switch/battery spring bounce around like in my light? I line it up, then screw it on and it works fine. Is the reason for this to accommodate other battery combinations or do I have a loose part? 

Also can GITD epoxy be put in the 3 deep grooves below the bezel or are they there for heat dissipation? 

Any idea if there is a way to replace the o-ring with a GITD o-ring between the glass and the bezel?


----------



## chanamasala (Mar 29, 2008)

Is there a way to transform this into a 3x18650 torch? Perhaps by adding another battery segment tube or two? Has anyone tried?


----------



## tmax (Mar 31, 2008)

chanamasala said:


> Is there a way to transform this into a 3x18650 torch? Perhaps by adding another battery segment tube or two? Has anyone tried?



I was thinking along the same lines today. It looks to me that if you added two more of the removable sections, you might be able to cram another 18650 in there. Now all we need is a source for the sections, short of buying two more lights.


----------



## glenda17 (Mar 31, 2008)

What precautions do you need to take when using 4xRCR123a? Is it OK to charge two of them in batches? Or do you need a 4 bay charger?

Also is this light brighter than a 3SD Deerelight?


----------



## phantom23 (Apr 1, 2008)

chanamasala said:


> Is there a way to transform this into a 3x18650 torch? Perhaps by adding another battery segment tube or two? Has anyone tried?


 
It is possible. 



glenda17 said:


> Also is this light brighter than a 3SD Deerelight?


 
It is brighter but Dereelight lights have better throw. Check this page out.


----------



## jirik_cz (Apr 1, 2008)

Overall output is better, but DBS has still more throw.

edit: ouch, I'm too slow


----------



## chanamasala (Apr 1, 2008)

Double post


----------



## chanamasala (Apr 1, 2008)

phantom23 said:


> It is possible.



Do you need one or two extra extenders?


----------



## phantom23 (Apr 1, 2008)

Yes.


----------



## Northern Lights (Apr 7, 2008)

JUNK, maybe at this level it should be JUNQUE!​
Not functioning, broken right out of the box. Waited weeks and darkness befalls me.

My 10452 arrived to day with bunch of their highest cost and capacity batteries. Charged them all up and ... nothing. Oh, yeah there was all sorts of lights and stuff for other folks in the shipment, but this was waited for just like the anticipation of Christmas. No there ain't no Santa Claus.

Checked it out, it is the driver. I think it is obvious I know enough about electronics to track down the problem. I get so frustrated just knowing the chances to get something like this to work out of the box is less than 50%. I should have followed my instincts.

I just ordered today the new P7, 900-Lumen P7 5-Mode at DX , that is being hyped. (bets on the disappointment factor looming in the future?)

I needed another high flux flashlight not. But I thought a shoot out beteen two incan designs, (emoli and A123 5761), this romisen and the new P7 should be interesting.

And DX, you disappointed me again.

Well, should I mod it to make it work or play it out with DX?
NL​


----------



## forrest (Apr 7, 2008)

Check out the upgrade for the 4 cree,https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/194390 , I will be doing this also!


----------



## Jay T (Apr 8, 2008)

Northern Lights said:


> JUNK, maybe at this level it should be JUNQUE!​
> Not functioning, broken right out of the box. Waited weeks and darkness befalls me.
> 
> NL​



Mine also arrived yesterday and it sorta works. On fresh two charged 18650 cells medium has a funky flicker and high isn't very bright. Using rundown cells removes the flicker and high is much brighter. With 3 RCR123s it works fine.

Draws .66amps off of the 123s so it should run about an hour. I would rather use the 18650s, but, that doesn't look like a viable option.

Some quick bathroom ceiling bounce tests.

RC-T5 18650s 49.7
RC-T5 3xrcr123 51.2
FireLion 49.0
Terralux 3xK2 56.6
Mac OStar mag 101.2


----------



## Xak (Apr 12, 2008)

The switch just crapped out on mine. Gotta send it to their florida address. Got a feeling I'll have to wait a couple months for a new switch as I did the light itself. All done with this company.


----------



## Sigman (Apr 13, 2008)

Closing this first part & continuing here...


----------

