# World's first real Free Energy Flashlight - no shaking - no batteries! No Solar.



## matrixshaman (Aug 29, 2015)

No this is NOT a shake light and is NOT a light you need to wind up. It does NOT need Sunlight. You just turn on the tail switch and it puts out 120 Lumens. After about 12 hours of runtime it will start to weaken so you just turn it off and let it sit a while. NO Recharging by any external source is needed. It gets its power from the Earth magnetic field and from what I understand probably also gets some power from EMF or electronic pollution by all the electronic devices around us. Either that or some more exotic sources such as ionics. And YES they are available for sale right now from what I can see. Web site below. $99

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VYC8K77MSc

http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe

I have no association with them - just found the video of it on youtube. Great way to help the planet and stop toxic throw away battery pollution.


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## richbuff (Aug 29, 2015)

Can I take it to Washington DC and get 2,400 lumens from all the energy pollution over there?


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## emarkd (Aug 29, 2015)

Video says 120 lm output with 12 hours runtime. That's about right for a contemporary 18650-powered light. Alright, I'm good with that so far. But supposedly they can recharge it from the Earth's magnetic field and other EM sources?! Yeah, right. I don't buy it. No way you could collect enough EM energy using a device the size of that flashlight to recharge an 18650 in any sort of reasonable time frame. I'm gonna want to use my light more than 12 hours every century.

Besides, that's not free energy anyway. Collecting EM waves removes that energy from its system.


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## stephenk (Aug 29, 2015)

Bit late for April Fools Day?


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## sinner-cpf (Aug 29, 2015)

the video is not at all straightforward..


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## Gunner12 (Aug 29, 2015)

Erm... hate to burst your bubble, but you need a changing magnetic field to create current. Plus, a metal body will block the electromagnetic waves from reaching the antenna (which is used to pull energy).

What he said!



emarkd said:


> Video says 120 lm output with 12 hours runtime. That's about right for a contemporary 18650-powered light. Alright, I'm good with that so far. But supposedly they can recharge it from the Earth's magnetic field and other EM sources?! Yeah, right. I don't buy it. No way you could collect enough EM energy using a device the size of that flashlight to recharge an 18650 in any sort of reasonable time frame. I'm gonna want to use my light more than 12 hours every century.





emarkd said:


> Besides, that's not free energy anyway. Collecting EM waves removes that energy from its system.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 30, 2015)

So this guy has invented a perpetual free energy machine? Wow, finally a real one, after millions of bogus lunatics claimed such a thing in the past!


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## matt4350 (Aug 30, 2015)

Green/renewable energy projects are big items in Australian news, and political involvement in such things is an excellent source of point scoring. If ADGEX has truly developed "off the grid" free lighting, I'm quite surprised it hasn't hit mainstream media in this country. Almost tempted to drop 99 bucks just so I can be critical (or otherwise, of course!), but I don't wanna hear "told you so"...


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 30, 2015)

matt4350 said:


> Green/renewable energy projects are big items in Australian news, and political involvement in such things is an excellent source of point scoring. If ADGEX has truly developed "off the grid" free lighting, I'm quite surprised it hasn't hit mainstream media in this country. Almost tempted to drop 99 bucks just so I can be critical (or otherwise, of course!), but I don't wanna hear "told you so"...



I don't need to buy a perpetual energy machine to be critical of it. Save yourself $99.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 30, 2015)

Gunner12 said:


> Erm... hate to burst your bubble, but you need a changing magnetic field to create current. Plus, a metal body will block the electromagnetic waves from reaching the antenna (which is used to pull energy).
> 
> What he said!




I've been researching alternate energy heavily for over 25 years and it is largely the reason I stopped reading and posting here some years ago - only on rare occasion dropping in - otherwise my post count would probably exceed yours. There are things I've seen in person and things I know about that cannot be easily explained by current mainstream knowledge in physics. A few are in plain sight. Google Bloom box ( http://www.bloomenergy.com ) which is used by the eBay server farms (and other corporations) to power some of their equipment. One bloom box the size of your coffee cup could power a flashlight for many years non-stop. In fact the inventor said one that size could power a home but they are expensive and have not been made available for homes. A little over a hundred years ago we barely had a grasp of what electricity is. Thanks to Nicola Tesla, Steinmetz, Heavyside and a few more we know a lot more but do you really think we know everything about the physics of electrical generation?

There is also the E-Cat by Rossi who was finally granted a Patent for this just in the last week. There is a 1 Megawatt unit running that fits inside a 20' shipping container. It uses Nickel (cheap metal) in a LENR (low energy nuclear reaction) to generate power. While this had a lot of naysayers for the last couple years it is pretty much accepted now and is hard to refute considering the running unit and the granted U.S. patent (which took years of tweaking to get it through).


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## matrixshaman (Aug 30, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> So this guy has invented a perpetual free energy machine? Wow, finally a real one, after millions of bogus lunatics claimed such a thing in the past!



They are not claiming this is overunity or COP >1. There is a difference between that and free energy. Solar and wind are free energy once you have the devices to convert them to electricity. This needs to be recharged from some alternate energy source - one they state is from EM fields. Take a large capacitor like an ultracap. Read the voltage on it. Hook up an LED and run it until it starts to dim. Disconnect and read the voltage. Come back a day later and read the voltage. You will be surprised at what you may find. Many types of capacitors are known to recharge their selves and it is believed this occurs from EM fields from the Earth or local EM pollution from AC lines and electronic devices. This flashlight may be something based on that with considerable enhanced efficiency.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 30, 2015)

Here is an explanation I just found that came from their web site: "To understand this energy, we must follow the flow of the electron neutrino which pierces the Earth's atmosphere in all directions. The initial source of atmospheric electricity originates from local currents and is counter acted by dynamic charges within clouds. The resulting lightning strikes pump energy into the earth-atmosphere cavity, and cause it to vibrate or resonate at extremely low frequencies; an effect called the Schumann resonance. These ultra-low frequency electro-magnetic oscillations come laden with reactive energy and travel around the Earth at the speed of light. The oscillations don’t fade, have fixed frequencies, and can provide an endless supply of energy to anyone who knows how to convert it." Lightning strikes the ground approximately 25 million times each year in the U.S. alone. The Earth's magnetic field emits power estimated at around 26992139 times 10 to the 24th watts. When compared to the meager 5 times 10 to the 12th watts generated by all the power stations on Earth, the magnitude of the Earths power becomes apparent.

A bit more info from Adgex - it appears it only takes an hour or two to recharge itself once it is turned off.


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## Swordforthelord (Aug 30, 2015)

As much as I love this hobby, I have a very hard time seeing someone discover this miraculous source of energy and their first thought being: "Let's just hit this energy crisis head on and put this thing in a flashlight!"
[emoji4]


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## matrixshaman (Aug 30, 2015)

Swordforthelord said:


> As much as I love this hobby, I have a very hard time seeing someone discover this miraculous source of energy and their first thought being: "Let's just hit this energy crisis head on and put this thing in a flashlight!"
> [emoji4]



Actually I see very good reasons for that. One is to get attention from the right sources and have proof that can be held in their hand. Two - you don't want to jump in immediately to challenge "BIG ENERGY" or you may find your company disappear, bought out, or destroyed by some means. Three - you need a starting point and while they are talking about scaling it up to kilowatts it is not there yet so why not sell something that you have which works. Next I believe will be power for cell phones.


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## savumaki (Aug 30, 2015)

Thanks, but I'll wait for the car version.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 30, 2015)

Funny thing, I already noted this from the future just yesterday.

First time I've seen this thread. This is wrong, we have to wait another 3 years at the least and it uses nano tech to harness the North & South pole.


:toilet:


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## Woods Walker (Aug 30, 2015)

I don't believe it.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 30, 2015)

If the earth's magnetic field produced enough energy to charge a flashlight via magnetism there would be a lot of problems with a lot of electronic equipment anything with coils in it would be effected there would have to be magnetic shielding on a lot of electronic equipment.


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## MtnDon (Aug 30, 2015)

matrixshaman said:


> No this is NOT a shake light and is NOT a light you need to wind up. It does NOT need Sunlight. You just turn on the tail switch and it puts out 120 Lumens. After about 12 hours




Have you bought one yet so we can have your report?


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## lampeDépêche (Aug 30, 2015)

I bet these people are blowing smoke.
That was my first reaction on reading the OP.

Then I got to this part:
""To understand this energy, we must follow the flow of the electron neutrino which pierces the Earth's atmosphere in all directions."

Now i *know* these people are blowing smoke. This is just word-salad, with a neutrino on the top.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 30, 2015)

lampeDépêche said:


> I bet these people are blowing smoke.
> That was my first reaction on reading the OP.
> 
> Then I got to this part:
> ...



+1

Total pseudo-scientific crap, dressed up in a bunch of nonsense techno-babble.


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## Rick NJ (Aug 30, 2015)

The scary thing is, some will buy this flashlight at $99!


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## Illum (Aug 30, 2015)

If it can charge from changing magnetism, it should take less than 30 seconds to charge in a microwave. Say a 1600W unit on high... even with a 1% transfer efficiency you'd get... 16W. Try that 


EDIT: I was joking, figured it would be ridiculously obvious, if not, know that whats written above is complete hogwash


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## matrixshaman (Aug 30, 2015)

Lynx_Arc said:


> If the earth's magnetic field produced enough energy to charge a flashlight via magnetism there would be a lot of problems with a lot of electronic equipment anything with coils in it would be effected there would have to be magnetic shielding on a lot of electronic equipment.



A lot of electronics are shielded both for outgoing and incoming radiation of EM fields. However unless something is tuned to resonance of a particular frequency there is not much effect. If it's in resonance then you can get a big effect.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 30, 2015)

MtnDon said:


> Have you bought one yet so we can have your report?



I put one in their cart just to see what ... but it said they won't be ready until November 28th.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 30, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> +1
> 
> Total pseudo-scientific crap, dressed up in a bunch of nonsense techno-babble.



Are you an expert in molecular physics? Even molecular physicists don't know everything yet about neutrino's. Note they say 'electron neutrino' and there are three basic types of neutrino's. I'm not saying that it's not marketing hype but unless you really know that field don't discount it as being fake. There has been some very interesting research on neutrino's.


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## Swordforthelord (Aug 30, 2015)

MtnDon said:


> Have you bought one yet so we can have your report?


Agreed! (Though I'd honestly rather have Selfbuilt's report.)


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## Tecboy (Aug 30, 2015)

How long do you have to wait to get full charged?


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## Mr Floppy (Aug 30, 2015)

matt4350 said:


> I'm quite surprised it hasn't hit mainstream media in this country. Almost tempted to drop 99 bucks just so I can be critical (or otherwise, of course!), but I don't wanna hear "told you so"...



I recall a story about some guy who lived near some large transmission lines. He built an inductor and harnessed the energy from the emf. It was on one of those current affairs shows and it talked about free energy etc. The next day, the follow up story was about the state electricity company telling him to stop it. He was trespassing or something like that.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 30, 2015)

Illum said:


> If it can charge from changing magnetism, it should take less than 30 seconds to charge in a microwave. Say a 1600W unit on high... even with a 1% transfer efficiency you'd get... 16W. Try that



I know you are joking. Metal and electronics of course don't do well in a microwave - just in case any clueless people are reading along.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 30, 2015)

Tecboy said:


> How long do you have to wait to get full charged?


One to two hours per their web site. It will also depend on local EM fields - for example if you are close to a CFL or a computer - shorter times than if you are out in the middle of no where.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 30, 2015)

Mr Floppy said:


> I recall a story about some guy who lived near some large transmission lines. He built an inductor and harnessed the energy from the emf. It was on one of those current affairs shows and it talked about free energy etc. The next day, the follow up story was about the state electricity company telling him to stop it. He was trespassing or something like that.


Yeah, that's an old farmer's trick and some got away with it but the electric companies claim it's stealing. I say it's reducing harmful EMF 

Exiting the BATTERY matrix .... cya


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## KeepingItLight (Aug 30, 2015)

matrixshaman said:


> I put one in their cart just to see what ... but it said they won't be ready until November 28th.




Okay, but while we are waiting, I hope you won't mind if I file this under, "If it sounds too good to be true, ..." 

If a product will be ready for sale in only 90 days, then I would expect to find patents already on file. In addition, there should be a wealth of academic research on record discussing the science.

As the late, great Carl Sagan said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." In this case, all that is necessary is to hand over a working flashlight. A prototype must exist already. Why have no independent scientists or engineers been invited to examine it?

I'm not holding my breath waiting for this one.


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## Mr Floppy (Aug 30, 2015)

Mythbusters did a piece on free energy a while back. There was one clip that didn't air because they thought that it could encourage people to try it. Available online though 
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/free-energy/


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## flashlight nut (Aug 30, 2015)

Let me ask this. If the power goes out, would there be any EMF to charge this type of technology assuming it does exist? If not it would be useless as an emergency light.


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## wjv (Aug 30, 2015)

emarkd said:


> I'm gonna want to use my light more than 12 hours every century.



Very simple solution. . . Just store it on top of your Van de Graaff generator.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 30, 2015)

I suppose you can count this light out for your EMP / Solar flare stash.....

Also, did you guys here about the software update that waterproofs your iPhone?

Send me $99, I'll send you free energy.


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## Mr Floppy (Aug 31, 2015)

flashlight nut said:


> Let me ask this. If the power goes out, would there be any EMF to charge this type of technology assuming it does exist? If not it would be useless as an emergency light.



yes, the earth has a static magnetic field. People have been trying to find ways to harness this free energy. I'm sure there is an award for anyone able to demonstrate free energy as well as a Nobel prize too. Handy millions and tax free too.


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## more_vampires (Aug 31, 2015)

Mr Floppy said:


> yes, the earth has a static magnetic field. People have been trying to find ways to harness this free energy. I'm sure there is an award for anyone able to demonstrate free energy as well as a Nobel prize too. Handy millions and tax free too.


Do you hate protection from solar and cosmic radiation?

Taking energy from Earth's magnetic field doesn't sound like all that great when 7 billion people start doing it. We've a long track record of overusing resources. Use up all the oil, deal with air pollution and climate change. Use up all of the Earth's magnetic field and you've got a major extinction event on your hands.

Of course, this is assuming it works. Powered by neutrinos? I call BS, those things are near impossible to catch and detect with enormous science facilities. Power a flashlight with neutrinos? I think I have a bridge to sell someone...

Edit: LOLOLOLOL!


matrixshaman said:


> No this is NOT a shake light and is NOT a light you need to wind up. It does NOT need Sunlight. You just turn on the tail switch and it puts out 120 Lumens. After about 12 hours of runtime it will start to weaken so you just turn it off and let it sit a while. NO Recharging by any external source is needed. It gets its power from the Earth magnetic field and from what I understand probably also gets some power from EMF or electronic pollution by all the electronic devices around us. Either that or some more exotic sources such as ionics. And YES they are available for sale right now from what I can see. Web site below. $99
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VYC8K77MSc
> 
> ...



Editing this in an earlier post.

LOL! This thread starter was copy pasta from here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20251-schumann-resonance-flash-light.html
http://www.energeticforum.com/renew...shlight-no-shaking-no-batteries-no-solar.html


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## WarRaven (Aug 31, 2015)

Dark energy!
Err, 
So what happens if used near an unshielded transformer, instant charge or fffFFFOOOOMMMMmmm?
Where's my old Accel super coil...


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 31, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> So what happens if used near an unshielded transformer, instant charge or fffFFFOOOOMMMMmmm?



I'll tell you exactly what will happen: absolutely nothing, including no charge.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 31, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Do you hate protection from solar and cosmic radiation?
> 
> Taking energy from Earth's magnetic field doesn't sound like all that great when 7 billion people start doing it.



Dude, SHHHHHHHHHHH. We could have got in early with "Magnetic credits". Would have made a fortune! 



And to the real topic..... I am HIGHLY skeptical of the whole thing. A flashlight would be a perfect way to "show" that it's possible because it's a relatively small and common item thats perceived not to use a lot of energy. You can hold your breath for a 3 million dollar Kickstarter project soon that ends up like Earl. The difference being Earl is doable but was completely miss managed, not to mention years late....They still don't have it.

These guys are just priming the pump for non delivery, I would advise caution on clicking the upcoming pre-order on the kickstarter campaign.

Dudes, I have a time machine.


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## more_vampires (Aug 31, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> Dudes, I have a time machine.


Flux Capacitor here:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/1dbd/

Apparently, we've overcome the 1.21 gigawatts and can now run it off of 12v.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 31, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Flux Capacitor here:
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/1dbd/
> 
> Apparently, we've overcome the 1.21 gigawatts and can now run it off of 12v.



Hahahahahaha.


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## Tecboy (Aug 31, 2015)

Lighten up guys! I will buy one and give it to my sister as a gift, and she will test it out.


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## more_vampires (Aug 31, 2015)

Tecboy said:


> Lighten up guys! I will buy one and give it to my sister as a gift, and she will test it out.


Ok, please to a strip and let us know if it's powered by vapor or not.


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## Tecboy (Aug 31, 2015)

Elfe takes 7-14 days to get full charged if use over 12 hour continually.


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## Mr Floppy (Aug 31, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Use up all of the Earth's magnetic field and you've got a major extinction event on your hands..


Errm, I don't think anyone is able to quantify it like that. The earth's magnetic field is generated in the earth's core by the flow of heat of one of the layers in the core. It is like a large dynamo. If that stops, then we are in the deep doo doo. So if we some how get the core to cool, we're in big trouble too.


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## pvsampson (Aug 31, 2015)

Mr Floppy said:


> Errm, I don't think anyone is able to quantify it like that. The earth's magnetic field is generated in the earth's core by the flow of heat of one of the layers in the core. It is like a large dynamo. If that stops, then we are in the deep doo doo. So if we some how get the core to cool, we're in big trouble too.



Wasn't there a movie about that??

So if the light works as it is supposed to,does that mean that it can be placed next to a single 18650 light and charge off that? Or place it next to the charger when topping up some batteries? What about next to my stove top when cooking my chips?

Or maybe,next to my tv when I am watching Vikings?

That would be pretty cool if it could.Big IF!


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## KeepingItLight (Sep 1, 2015)

Mr Floppy said:


> Errm, I don't think anyone is able to quantify it like that. The earth's magnetic field is generated in the earth's core by the flow of heat of one of the layers in the core. It is like a large dynamo. If that stops, then we are in the deep doo doo. So if we some how get the core to cool, we're in big trouble too.



Six or seven times in the history of planet Earth, the magnetic field has switched orientation. North became south, and south became north. During the time of each change, there is geologic evidence of an absence of a magnetic field. Some scientists have associated these periods with great extinction events on the planet. As was noted above, the Earth's magnetic field shields us from the charged particles in the solar wind. When the magnetic field is gone, that radiation hits the Earth.

We are not exactly overdue, but another is expected in the not too distant (geologic) future.


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## leon2245 (Sep 1, 2015)

Bretty gud.


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## Mr Floppy (Sep 1, 2015)

pvsampson said:


> Wasn't there a movie about that??



Yeah, with Hillary Swank, called The Core. Do yourself a favour and give it a miss.



> What about next to my stove top when cooking my chips?
> 
> Or maybe,next to my tv when I am watching Vikings?
> 
> That would be pretty cool if it could.Big IF!



I had a emf meter that was purchased from dx. It only has a range of 50Hz to 2GHz, so useless for microwave ovens and wifi. I still have no idea what units it displays. In any case numbers are generally 0.02 near the stove and TV. If the unit is micro Gauss, then converting that to watt/m means it is still a low number. So you'd be frying your chips until they're crisps. That said, it is a cheap meter, which I bought to prove a point to a friend who was doing a feng shui course and was asked to pay 90 bucks for what was essentially an emf meter that beeped when near a field. Worse, it only picked up 50Hz so it puzzled my friend as to why it didn't beep near my wifi ap. 



KeepingItLight said:


> Six or seven times in the history of planet Earth, the magnetic field has switched orientation. North became south, and south became north.



It moves all the time. Magnetic north is now closer to Siberia than Greenland.


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## more_vampires (Sep 1, 2015)

Mr Floppy said:


> Errm, I don't think anyone is able to quantify it like that. The earth's magnetic field is generated in the earth's core by the flow of heat of one of the layers in the core. It is like a large dynamo. If that stops, then we are in the deep doo doo. So if we some how get the core to cool, we're in big trouble too.


Nature balances its books, conservation of matter and energy. Take energy from somewhere, the "ether," then it comes from somewhere.


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## dc38 (Sep 1, 2015)

leon2245 said:


> Bretty gud.



Nyet, ef nawt fake, es veery gud.



more_vampires said:


> Nature balances its books, conservation of matter and energy. Take energy from somewhere, the "ether," then it comes from somewhere.



Like with geothermal, hydroelectric, and aero, just to name a few. Even the waste of solar production is substantial. Most people are sold into thinking that because potential differentials exist, they will always exist because the system is so massive in comparison to an individual. Technology will be the bane of this planet.


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## Mr Floppy (Sep 1, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Nature balances its books, conservation of matter and energy. Take energy from somewhere, the "ether," then it comes from somewhere.


 There have been far better people than me (barely passed physics 30 or so years ago), who have tried to theorise how the earth and other planetary bodies have a magnetic field. Dynamo theory is one most seem to like.

The conservation of energy comes misused a lot in a lot of free energy doo Hickeys.


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## more_vampires (Sep 1, 2015)

Magnetic field? That's fairly well understood at this time. Really simple.

Step 1. Have a molten or liquid core of metal (rocky planets) or hyper-compressed hydrogen (stars and gas giants.)
Step 2. Have rotation. Due to the way nebulae collapse, the clumps of matter will always have rotation. See also: "Accretion disk."

This has been reproduced on earth. Spin a ball of molten metal, get a magnetic field. It also works with hyper-compressed hydrogen.

Nothing to it, we cracked this on our path to "not so hot" fusion.

When a planet cools such that its molten core solidifies, no more magnetic field. This is theorized as why Mars lost its atmosphere, it would have been Earthlike.


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## richbuff (Sep 1, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Magnetic field? That's fairly well understood at this time. Really simple.
> 
> Step 1. Have a molten or liquid core of metal (rocky planets) or hyper-compressed hydrogen (stars and gas giants.)
> Step 2. Have rotation. Due to the way nebulae collapse, the clumps of matter will always have rotation. See also: "Accretion disk."
> ...


"Over the mountain watching the watcher.
Breaking the darkness, waking the grapevine.
One inch of love is one inch of shadow
Love is the shadow that ripens the wine."

Aim the flashlights at the core of the Earth. 

Apologies to Pink Floyd.


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## Xaios (Sep 1, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> Dude, SHHHHHHHHHHH. We could have got in early with "Magnetic credits". Would have made a fortune!



Personally, I plan to offset the magnetic footprint I generate using this miraculous device by replacing all my fridge magnets with Post-It notes.


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## ForrestChump (Sep 1, 2015)

Xaios said:


> Personally, I plan to offset the magnetic footprint I generate using this miraculous device by replacing all my fridge magnets with Post-It notes.




Sorry, it only works if you give me money and I tell you everything is OK.


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## WarRaven (Sep 1, 2015)

Magnetic credits, an trade offs via conversion to post it notes?
Huh!
That's genius. 

+1 to each.


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## Mr Floppy (Sep 2, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Magnetic field? That's fairly well understood at this time. Really simple.



Rather brash thing to say. Just because you can repeatedly demonstrate a magnetic field does not make you understand it. 



> Step 1. Have a molten or liquid core of metal (rocky planets) or hyper-compressed hydrogen (stars and gas giants.)
> Step 2. Have rotation. Due to the way nebulae collapse, the clumps of matter will always have rotation. See also: "Accretion disk."



Mate, you write for those dummies books?



> When a planet cools such that its molten core solidifies, no more magnetic field. This is theorized as why Mars lost its atmosphere, it would have been Earthlike.



The earth's moon has a magnetic field. Not a polar one like the earth. Few other examples where it doesn't fit into a category.


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

> Magnetic field? That's fairly well understood at this time. Really simple.





Mr Floppy said:


> Rather brash thing to say. Just because you can repeatedly demonstrate a magnetic field does not make you understand it.


Easy up, brother. Watch where you point those accusations!  There are multiple methods for generating a magnetic field, some not so easily done in the lab or on the surface of Planet Earth.

Lodestones. They have aligned magnetic domains such that it is a natural magnet. They don't have a molten rotating core.
Electromagnets. They spontaneously turn on when current is applied. They don't have a molten rotating core.
Induced magnets. They are generated by other magnets when magnetic domains in ferrous (and other) metals are aligned by external influence. They don't have a molten rotating core.

Fields and field strength;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field


> A *magnetic field* is the magnetic effect of electric currents and magnetic materials. The magnetic field at any given point is specified by both a _direction_ and a _magnitude_ (or strength); as such it is a vector field.[nb 1]​ The term is used for two distinct but closely related fields denoted by the symbols *B* and *H*, where *H* is measured in units of amperes per meter (symbol: A·m−1​ or A/m) in the SI. *B* is measured in teslas (symbol:T) and newtons per meter per ampere (symbol: N·m−1​·A−1​ or N/(m·A)) in the SI. *B* is most commonly defined in terms of the Lorentz force it exerts on moving electric charges.
> 
> Magnetic fields can be produced by moving electric charges and the intrinsic magnetic moments of elementary particles associated with a fundamental quantum property, their spin.[1]​[2]​ In special relativity, electric and magnetic fields are two interrelated aspects of a single object, called the electromagnetic tensor; the split of this tensor into electric and magnetic fields depends on the relative velocity of the observer and charge. In quantum physics, the electromagnetic field is quantized and electromagnetic interactions result from the exchange of photons.
> In everyday life, magnetic fields are most often encountered as a force created by permanent magnets, which pull on ferromagnetic materials such as iron, cobalt, or nickel, and attract or repel other magnets. Magnetic fields are widely used throughout modern technology, particularly in electrical engineering and electromechanics. The Earth produces its own magnetic field, which is important in navigation, and it shields the Earth's atmosphere from solar wind. Rotating magnetic fields are used in both electric motors and generators. Magnetic forces give information about the charge carriers in a material through the Hall effect. The interaction of magnetic fields in electric devices such as transformers is studied in the discipline of magnetic circuits.





Mr Floppy said:


> Mate, you write for those dummies books?


Nope, used to be a resident of Answers.com. Really. We used to do this all day long.



Mr Floppy said:


> The earth's moon has a magnetic field. Not a polar one like the earth. Few other examples where it doesn't fit into a category.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_star


> An *exotic star* is a hypothetical compact star composed of something other than electrons, protons, neutrons, and muons; and balanced against gravitational collapse by degeneracy pressure or other quantum properties. These include quark and strange stars (composed of quark or strange matter) and the more speculative preon stars (composed of preons). Exotic stars are largely theoretical, but candidates for such objects are occasionally seen.


Not technically a molten core, but EM from hypercompression. Degenerate stars, get this: Under the strongest compression nature can provide, protons and electrons merge to form a NEUTRON. This generates all kinds of EM radiation, plus a magnetic field. As the compression increases, the matter forms a "degenerate state." That is to say, matter begins to revert to the simplest component particles and the line between matter and energy begins to blur.

Science before junk marketing, friends.



> A *Planck star* is a hypothetical astronomical object where the energy density is around the Planck density. (5.15500 × 1096​ kg/m3​). Carlo Rovelli and Francesca Vidotto proposed that there is a Planck star inside a black hole. This theory, if correct, would resolve the black hole firewall and black hole information paradox. This idea is based on loop quantum gravity.


Black holes are nothing more than really massive stars. They don't explode due to time dilation by gravitational field. As a BH evaporates by Hawking radiation, it can "relight" as mass is lost below a critical level.

Science, friends.

Conversion of matter into energy and energy into matter:
We can currently do this under lab conditions, though we struggle to make more than a few thousand atoms of antimatter at a time.

The relationship between matter and energy is roughly given by Energy = matter*exp(2)speedoflight.

I say roughly, as* the speed of light is in fact NOT constant.

*

Matter and Energy are the same thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter


> In particle physics, *antimatter* is material composed of antiparticles; which have the same mass as particles of ordinary matter but have opposite charge and other particle properties such as lepton and baryon number, quantum spin, etc. Collisions between particles and antiparticles lead to the annihilation of both, giving rise to variable proportions of intense photons (gamma rays), neutrinos, and less massive particle–antiparticle pairs. The mass of any produced neutrinos is negligible, while they contain energy that generally continues to be unavailable after the release of particle–antiparticle annihilation. The total consequence of annihilation is a release of energy available for work, proportional to the total matter and antimatter mass, in accord with the mass–energy equivalence equation, _E_ = _mc_2​.[1]​
> 
> Antiparticles bind with each other to form antimatter, just as ordinary particles bind to form normal matter. For example, a positron (the antiparticle of the electron) and an antiproton can form an antihydrogen atom. Physical principles indicate that complex antimatter atomic nuclei are possible, as well as anti-atoms corresponding to the known chemical elements. Studies of cosmic rays have identified both positrons and antiprotons, presumably produced by collisions between particles of ordinary matter.


Please note that our current experiments with this nowhere approach "break even," that is to say we put more energy into the effort than is released *at this time.

*Even this is not free energy, it has to come with somewhere.

Say it with me friends:
*"Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can be interchanged."
--Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy.*

If some joker thinks he's beaten the system and truly has, then no advertisement is required. Again, "free energy" is comprised of hot air and BS.

*Are you down with Entropy?*



> First we need to understand that entropy is energy,
> Energy that can't be used to state it more specifically.
> In a closed system entropy always goes up,
> That's the second law, now you know what's up.You can't win, you can't break even, you can't leave the game,
> ...





> That, in a nutshell, is what entropy's about,
> You're now down with a discount.



...so who's down with Entropy?


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

Well now, haven't done a post like that in a while. It was refreshing.


----------



## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

Good read.
+1


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Good read.
> +1


Thanks, WR.

My main point was:


> The mass of any produced neutrinos is negligible, while they contain energy that generally continues to be unavailable after the release of particle–antiparticle annihilation.



Science says you can't harvest energy from neutrinos. I'm all for someone disproving this.


----------



## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

I dropped out of school, self taught or gathered what I know.
Wasn't too smart then, not much more now lol.
EM I play with in automotive a fair bit, fun to make other stuff light up or react. 
Gravity, this is the one more so other then quarks and neutrons that bothers me. 
I think it's spacial speed accumulates enough dark energy to energize nickel core to attract.
Lol dumb thoughts tossed in.


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Gravity, this is the one more so other then quarks and neutrons that bothers me.
> I think it's spacial speed accumulates enough dark energy to energize nickel core to attract.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy


> In physical cosmology and astronomy, *dark energy* is an unknown form of energy which is hypothesized to permeate all of space, tending to accelerate the expansion of the universe.[1]​ Dark energy is the most accepted hypothesis to explain the observations since the 1990s indicating that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate.



Dark energy theory all started because our understanding of the Universe is incorrect. This is still an open problem.

We took our math, looked at the heavens and said "Huh! That' weird."

Dark energy started off as a "fudge factor" applied to our existing (incorrect) math. It grew into this inexplicable thing; rather than "fix our math," we added some "weirdo factor."

http://www.gizmag.com/dark-matter-filaments-found/23281/


> For the first time, a team of astronomers has "observed" a filament of dark matter connecting two neighboring galaxy clusters. Dark matter is a type of matter that interacts only very weakly with light and itself. Its very nature is mysterious. Mapping the dark matter filament's gravity was the key to the breakthrough. The result is considered a crucial first step by scientists. It provides the first direct evidence that the universe is filled by a lacework of dark matter filaments, upon which the visible matter in the universe is distributed like small beads.



I was not surprised that there is matter that is not visible, that is to say that it isn't giving off light or EM radiation. It seemed pretty darned obvious to me since a long time ago.



> Two proposed forms for dark energy are the cosmological constant, a _constant_ energy density filling space homogeneously,[8]​ and scalar fields such as quintessence or moduli, _dynamic_ quantities whose energy density can vary in time and space. Contributions from scalar fields that are constant in space are usually also included in the cosmological constant. The cosmological constant can be formulated to be equivalent to vacuum energy. Scalar fields that do change in space can be difficult to distinguish from a cosmological constant because the change may be extremely slow.



Cosmological constant is wrong. For starters, *it is not constant. *News flash, humans don't fully understand the universe. No surprise there, whatsoever.

It's like viewing a power line as a human. Looks like a line, roughly a "one dimensional" item. If you were on a different scale, say an ant-size, then crawling along the power line shows it has more than one dimension. You can crawl around its circumference. This insight is what we humans are lacking WRT the Universe. We're not small enough, we're not large enough.

If we can't even get the Cosmological Constant right, then new ways to get energy are quite possible and most likely inevitable.

However, I'm still not ponying up money for an eBay item claiming this.


----------



## dc38 (Sep 2, 2015)

"Grand unified theory"


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

dc38 said:


> "Grand unified theory"


We'll get it one day. However, this is dependent on us being correct.


----------



## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

Well until it's found what holds it all together beyond particles, we're in the gray together. 
Neat about anti matter and its ability to give off visible light considering it's scale, immense power.

I think it's spacial speed, like a SR71 engines gain length even in atmosphere constraints. That's not even a scram jet.

Speed is my answer, it changes how see things, could be scale included but at scale of speed used. Friction through space, time, matter, anti matter, neutrinos, quarks an particles holds it all together. 
OK enough of my crazy theories, just wanted to break ice. 
Garage monkey out.


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Well until it's found what holds it all together beyond particles, we're in the gray together. Friction through space, time, matter, anti matter, neutrinos, quarks an particles holds it all together.



Gravity and magnetism related? Yep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame-dragging


> *Frame-dragging* is an effect on spacetime, predicted by Einstein's general theory of relativity, that is due to non-static stationary distributions of mass–energy. A stationary field is one that is in a steady state, but the masses causing that field may be non-static, rotating for instance. The first frame-dragging effect was derived in 1918, in the framework of general relativity, by the Austrian physicists Josef Lense and Hans Thirring, and is also known as the Lense–Thirring effect.[1]​[2]​[3]​ They predicted that the rotation of a massive object would distort the spacetime metric, making the orbit of a nearby test particle precess. This does not happen in Newtonian mechanics for which the gravitational field of a body depends only on its mass, not on its rotation. The Lense–Thirring effect is very small—about one part in a few trillion. To detect it, it is necessary to examine a very massive object, or build an instrument that is very sensitive. More generally, the subject of effects caused by mass–energy currents is known as gravitomagnetism, in analogy with classical electromagnetism.


Lol, gravitomagnetism. 

I see no way that we WON'T eventually have a Grand Unified Theory.

Maxwell unified eletricity and magnetism. Now, it's looking like magnetism and gravity are related.

Therefore, we can infer that *electricity and gravity are related*... we just don't quite have it yet.


----------



## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

Cheers lol
So if we are basically a 5volt cell, and no energy is lost....
Are we future weather events?

I'm just kidding ☺


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> So if we are basically a 5volt cell, and no energy is lost....


http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/nervous-system/human-body-make-electricity1.htm



> A human body can only generate between 10 and 100 millivolts





> Panasonic is looking into using human blood to power electrical devices. It's researching how blood could break down sugars to generate power like it generates energy for the human body. This type of "human battery" could ultimately power nano-devices implanted in the body.



Even this is not "free energy." The energy comes from potential chemical energy. It's gotta come from somewhere, nothing is free. You'll need to consume slightly more calories when powering stuff using the proposed Panasonic Blood Battery (ewww.)

Lol, "The Matrix."


----------



## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

True about free stuff, lot of waste though.
Cars are mini EM Fields running about wasting it.
Coil and cell, gather Free field from wasted by-product of locomotion. 

Blood sugars, I guess. 
Mini potatoes.
Little more iron in diet and spontaneous fffFFFOOOOMMMMmmm is no longer limited to lion cells, cool.


----------



## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

Buddy you're looking a little blue around your optical input ports, are you going to vent?


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> True about free stuff, lot of waste though.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine


> A *Stirling engine* is a heat engine that operates by cyclic compression and expansion of air or other gas (the _working fluid_) at different temperatures, such that there is a net conversion of heat energy to mechanical work.[1]​[2]​ More specifically, the Stirling engine is a closed-cycle regenerative heat engine with a permanently gaseous working fluid. _Closed-cycle_, in this context, means a thermodynamic system in which the working fluid is permanently contained within the system, and _regenerative_ describes the use of a specific type of internal heat exchanger and thermal store, known as the _regenerator_. The inclusion of a regenerator differentiates the Stirling engine from other closed cycle hot air engines.


Harvesting work from a temperature differential. Still not free energy. Entropy rises, not decreasing.



WarRaven said:


> Cars are mini EM Fields running about wasting it. Coil and cell, gather Free field from wasted by-product of locomotion.


http://www.google.com/patents/US20110298222


> Electric power generation from moving vehicles
> US 20110298222 A1
> 
> Abstract
> ...


Still not free energy, you're burning hydrocarbons and the energy generated by the road surface is "stealing" energy from your vehicle degrading fuel economy.

It's like running the AC in your car hampers fuel mileage.

Power generating roadways are brain dead. Cars are lousy power plants. Centralized heavy industry power generation is far, far more efficient than 90 million smoking ICE vehicles.


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## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

Not piezoelectric, or static/kinetic. 
I'm not trying to say this is free bud,
just use what's already being lost.

The car is going to waste the heat and Em 
whether idling or driving.
That em waste.
Like that first banker that rounded up half cents, 
not free, but not used.


----------



## Rick NJ (Sep 2, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> dc38 said:
> 
> 
> > "Grand unified theory"
> ...



Not only "dependent on us being correct", it may also depends on we have access to all the dimension.

Some hypothesized that the reason gravity is so weak is because it leaks into other dimensions. If that is the case, we can deal with it mathematically by again using the well established technique of "a fudge factor", but measuring it will be out of the question until we can "get a handle" of those other dimensions. Gravity is not the only thing that needs "other dimensions". String theory needs 10 dimensions and more.

The "other dimension" is not so much whether they are real (ie: a particular theory with them being "correct"). It is symptomatic of *whether* we do have the ability to deal with them. Yup, we can theorize, but we cannot measure.

We are in a prison of perception. What we perceive is merely our interpretation of what is there.


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> I'm not trying to say this is free bud, just use what's already being lost.


...like regenerative braking? Still not free, it cannot reclaim more than the kinetic energy of the moving vehicle which in turn was generated from finite burning fuel. I think it's a good idea though, but adds to equipment cost and total cost of ownership.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_brake


> A *regenerative brake* is an energy recovery mechanism which slows a vehicle or object by converting its kinetic energy into a form, which can be either used immediately or stored until needed. This contrasts with conventional braking systems, where the excess kinetic energy is converted to heat by friction in the brakes and therefore wasted. In addition to improving the overall efficiency of the vehicle, regeneration can also greatly extend the life of the braking system as its parts do not wear as quickly.



http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/regenerative-braking.htm


> Every time you step on your car's brakes, you're wasting energy. Physics tells us that energy can not be destroyed. So when your car slows down, the kinetic energy that was propelling it forward has to go somewhere. Most of it simply dissipates as heat and becomes useless. That energy, which could have been used to do work, is essentially wasted.



Regen braking is an efficiency enhancer, but not free energy. The energy claimed cannot exceed what's there in the kinetic energy, given by KE = .5*mass*(velocity)^2



Rick NJ said:


> We are in a prison of perception. What we perceive is merely our interpretation of what is there.


Good post! We cannot tell much of anything about a multidimensional container (the Universe) when we're stuck inside it. For all we know if we travel far enough in one direction, we loop around and end up back where we started. Weird artifacts much exactly like that are possible if the universe is indeed greater than 4 dimensions (counting time.)


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## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

Scooping wasted em requires no OEM attachment or build points.
That fluctuating wave is lost other then to exponentially increase voltage directly connected, rest is lost once field collapses. 

Using heat can be trickier, but can be done on a budget.

Edit, I mean no resistive or additional dragging is required. No more then an extra happy meal box and food in it basically..
I guess I can't make it clear with my poor grammar sorry man.


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## KeepingItLight (Sep 2, 2015)

In defense of the OP, he stated way back in post #11 that he was not talking about a perpetual motion machine. Those require that energy be created from nothing, and violate the energy conservation law. He compared the "free" energy used by this flashlight to solar energy. It's "free" to us, because all we have to do is harvest it.

Nevertheless, I remain more than a little skeptical about a flashlight that harnesses the energy of the electron neutrino. Those things are darn near impossible to detect. They just don't interact very often with the familiar matter around us. 

The idea of gathering energy from neutrinos is far-fetched, to say the least. Anyone who creates a mechanism for doing so will immediately be heralded as one of the great scientists of our day. Keeping the method secret, and then using it to sell "magic" flashlights for $99, is not a very believable scenario.


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Scooping wasted em requires no OEM attachment or build points.
> That fluctuating wave is lost other then to exponentially increase voltage directly connected, rest is lost once field collapses.


Ahh, but taking energy from a field is not free. It weakens the field you're vampiring.



> The car is going to waste the heat and Em
> whether idling or driving.


Ahh yes, the very principle behind hybrid ICE-electric. We're working on it, we're getting there... slowly.
http://www.toyota.com/prius/
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybridtech.shtml


> Hybrid-electric vehicles (HEVs) combine the benefits of gasoline engines and electric motors and can be configured to obtain different objectives, such as improved fuel economy, increased power, or additional auxiliary power for electronic devices and power tools.
> 
> Some of the advanced technologies typically used by hybrids include
> 
> ...



http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml


> Only about 14%–30% of the energy from the fuel you put in a conventional vehicle is used to move it down the road, depending on the drive cycle. The rest of the energy is lost to engine and driveline inefficiencies or used to power accessories. Therefore, the potential to improve fuel efficiency with advanced technologies is enormous.


Hybrids use efficiency tricks, but no system can exceed 100%. If powered by an outside system, then some might think it's broken 100% efficiency, but that's just "redrawing the lines." It can never exceed 100% and we're doing well to even get 30%.

Energy is being used, entropy rises.

If anyone can make an ICE with 80% efficiency, they will be a billionaire.

Still not free energy.


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

http://www.scambusters.org/Scambusters45.html


> [h=2]Beware of Energy Scams[/h] Is free energy too good to be true? Yes.
> TechTV News reported today on one company that is supposedly offering free lifetime energy — but TechTV says instead, people are being taken for hundreds of dollars. The inventor claims he has invented a revolutionary generator that makes free energy and promises, on his  website, a lifetime of free electricity.
> 
> According to TechTV, the inventor has faced criminal or civil charges in at least five states, including Washington. Visit TechTV.com for more info.



Good site here:
http://freeenergyscams.com/


> *It is always about the money.* To help stop free energy scams we recommend everyone stop giving money to; a) anyone who will not give proof that what they have is true and working as claimed; b) people and organizations who promote people claiming to have a working free energy device but will not authenticate the claims of the “inventor” with a true independent 3rd party.
> The above statement does NOT suggest we are proposing to anyone, that they should stop putting money into their favorite R & D project.





> ...how Andrea Rossi and partners scammed the USA government and the USA taxpayers out of millions of dollars. Never producing even one working device as claimed and never having any device independently tested by a third party.


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

KeepingItLight said:


> The idea of gathering energy from neutrinos is far-fetched, to say the least. Anyone who creates a mechanism for doing so will immediately be heralded as one of the great scientists of our day. Keeping the method secret, and then using it to sell "magic" flashlights for $99, is not a very believable scenario.


We agree 100%


----------



## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

Good food for thought.
Still, waste not want not is my thought.


About this light.
Flashlight powered by dark osmosis, sweet.
Only visible in the dark dimension.


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

LOL! I'd buy a flashlight that makes things dark and you know it! 

Since it's absorbing light, does that mean the batteries charge and changing the batteries means putting dead ones in it?


----------



## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

That'd be interesting, pondering.


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

This looks more believable to me, she does demos.

Check out the "real" first flashlight to use "free energy."  This assumes we're not counting hand-cranks. 

The Hollow Light:
http://www.gizmag.com/body-heat-powered-flashlight/28113/


> At the tender age of 15, Canadian high school student Ann Makosinski has designed and built a flashlight powered by body heat. Her Hollow Flashlight secured her a finalist slot in the 15-16 age group of the Google Science Fair ahead of thousands of entries from more than 100 countries.
> 
> The LED flashlight relies on the *thermoelectric effect*, with tiles that generate electricity from the differences in temperature to generate electricity. The tiles are fixed to the outside of a hollow tube so that when held, one side of the tile is heated by the warmth of the hand, while air flowing through the hollow tube helps keep the other side cool. The electricity generated by the temperature differential between either side of the tile powers the LED light.



If she is scamming, there is no way on Earth she's going to get away with it.

Thermoelectric effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect


> The *thermoelectric effect* is the direct conversion of temperature differences to electric voltage and vice versa. A thermoelectric device creates voltage when there is a different temperature on each side. Conversely, when a voltage is applied to it, it creates a temperature difference. At the atomic scale, an applied temperature gradient causes charge carriers in the material to diffuse from the hot side to the cold side.
> 
> This effect can be used to generate electricity, measure temperature or change the temperature of objects. Because the direction of heating and cooling is determined by the polarity of the applied voltage, thermoelectric devices can be used as temperature controllers.
> The term "thermoelectric effect" encompasses three separately identified effects: the Seebeck effect, Peltier effect, and Thomson effect. Textbooks may refer to it as the Peltier–Seebeck effect. This separation derives from the independent discoveries of French physicist Jean Charles Athanase Peltier and Baltic German physicist Thomas Johann Seebeck. Joule heating, the heat that is generated whenever a current is passed through a resistive material, is related, though it is not generally termed a thermoelectric effect. The Peltier–Seebeck and Thomson effects are thermodynamically reversible,[1]​ whereas Joule heating is not.



Still not free, but the government is going to have a hard time levying sales tax on your body heat. At least there's that.


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

From Adgex:


> To understand this energy, we must follow the flow of the electron neutrino which pierces the Earth's atmosphere in all directions. The initial source of atmospheric electricity originates from local currents and is counter acted by dynamic charges within clouds. The resulting lightning strikes pump energy into the earth-atmosphere cavity, and cause it to vibrate or resinate at extremely low frequencies; an effect called the Schumann resonance. These ultra-low frequency electro-magnetic oscillations come laden with reactive energy and travel around the Earth at the speed of light. The oscillations don’t fade, have fixed frequencies, and can provide an endless supply of energy to  anyone who knows how to convert it.



This is BS. The earth's magnetic field has NOTHING to do with neutrinos. Dynamic changes within the clouds have nothing to do with neutrinos. They are only tangently related to the Earth's EMF, lightning has to do with triboelectricity on a large scale. Earth's EMF comes from the rotating molten core, not neutrinos.

I'm betting the ADGEX Elfe flashlight has a finite lifespan.

More BS from ADGEX:
http://www.adgex.com/News/tabid/69/EntryId/2077/NICKEL-CADMIUM-ACCUMULATORS-OF-ADGEX-ENERGY.aspx


> Serial Production of globally manufactured electrodes for *alkaline* accumulators comprise padding from porous perforated net, whereon conductive layer made of nickel and active mass or lamella is applied. Structure features of electrodes are associated with various types of accumulators: starters, tractive, continuous, and short charge, where they are applied.
> 
> Managing Director Mr Victor Uzlov said this is the fifth generation of accumulators of existed technology. Basic advantages of ADGEX ENERGY’s accumulators are as follows:
> 
> ...



Soooo... they've been around since 2012, claim to be on gen 5, and have won zero awards for alternative energy.

Self charging, low self-discharging level? That's a contradiction.

It is a nickel cadmium alkaline? WTF??

Absorbs ambient energy, yet has a lifespan? Is there an RTG charging a NiCad in there or something? 

We now have warning bells.
http://amasci.com/freenrg/fnrg.html


> The inventor makes one statement, then contradicts himself later. This string of lies may not be obvious, but is revealed by comparing various statements.
> 
> The inventor hasn't tried winning any of the FE device prizes.


----------



## KeepingItLight (Sep 2, 2015)

> From Adgex:
> 
> To understand this energy, we must follow the flow of the electron neutrino...





more_vampires said:


> This is BS. The earth's magnetic field has NOTHING to do with neutrinos. Dynamic changes within the clouds have nothing to do with neutrinos. They are only tangently related to the Earth's EMF, lightning has to do with triboelectricity on a large scale. Earth's EMF comes from the rotating molten core, not neutrinos.



Right! This sounds like the sort of techno-babble familiar from cheesy sci-fi flicks. It provides just enough nonsense so that I can suspend disbelief, and get on with the business of enjoying the movie.


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

KeepingItLight said:


> Right! This sounds like the sort of techno-babble familiar from cheesy sci-fi flicks. It provides just enough nonsense so that I can suspend disbelief, and get on with the business of enjoying the movie.


Lol, he should hire on with Paramount and write the crap they say in Star Trek. At least that would be an honest living!


----------



## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

If you don't want to believe in the unicorn, 
you can't see it nor have it. 


You simply don't know, what you're missing. 

☺yeah if I don't know, I'm not missing, 
if I'm not missing something,
then I can't see it to know I want or I don't want to have it. 

Dang paradox of crazy inventors.


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

I believe in unicorns! Seen some before, circuses have them. They're made with a technique called "bone grafting."

I'm convinced, however, that ADGEX is a scam and will soon start showing up on scam lists. I don't know how they avoided the notice of weird-sci thus far.

Oh well. Google will crawl this thread and there are VERY VERY few hits on the search engines for Adgex right now.

How long before google autocorrects "ADGEX" to "ADGEX scam?"


----------



## KeepingItLight (Sep 2, 2015)

After thinking it over, I've decided not to buy this flashlight. 

I am going wait for the cold-fusion model!


----------



## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

Lol 
+1 to both posts.


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

KeepingItLight said:


> After thinking it over, I've decided not to buy this flashlight.
> 
> I am going wait for the cold-fusion model!


What? The vapor-powered version not good enough for you?  

ADGEX says it's a "nickel cadmium alkaline" that is "self charging" and "low self discharge." Did they just grab random words from CPF terminology thread and sprinkle them around a paragraph?


----------



## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> What? The vapor-powered version not good enough for you?
> 
> ADGEX says it's a "nickel cadmium alkaline" that is "self charging" and "low self discharge." Did they just grab random words from CPF terminology thread and sprinkle them around a paragraph?


Do we store this in refrigerator for maximum freshness?


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Do we store this in refrigerator for maximum freshness?


Nah, I think this one is more appropriately stored in the cow manure pile so it can be with its friends. 

Since 2012, won zero prizes? There you go, they are 100% BS.

They could have just walked in and gotten suitcases of money, they're there for this (provided it works.)
http://www.xprize.org/grand-challenges/energy-environment
http://www.xprize.org/prizes/future-prizes/revolutionary-battery
http://www.xprize.org/prizes/future-prizes/renewable-storage-and-distribution
http://energy.gov/eere/femp/energy-incentive-programs

ADGEX? Turning down free money? :shrug: Why is it $99, then?

Hoax here, "thorium battery,"
http://energyfromthorium.com/2014/04/13/mythology-thorium-car-thorium-plasma-batteries/

Scam here:
http://exposingcensorship.blogspot.com/2012/04/murdered-government-agent-linked-to.html

There's a *$500,000 bounty* on a fake inventor who fled and went into hiding. His scam was called "thorium battery" and "plasma battery." He must have burned some *very* well-heeled people. Never recharge for 100 years!
http://peakoil.com/alternative-energy/500000-reward-offered-for-whearbouts-of-russian-plasma-battery-inventor-dimitri-petronov


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## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

Nice, thorium plasma.
Getting O/T but yeah maybe not.


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

LOL! We totally should send ADGEX a link to this thread!!!

The jig is UP, ADGEX! We didn't even need to obtain a review sample.

There is 0% chance ADGEX will send a review copy to Selfbuilt, I guarantee it!

Welcome to the only ADGEX review thread on CPF!


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

> Have you bought one yet so we can have your report?





matrixshaman said:


> I put one in their cart just to see what ... but it said they won't be ready until November 28th.


They have been around since 2012, claim to be on gen 5, yet it won't be ready until Nov 28th.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....

So where's Gen 1-4? Anyone got one? No? No reviews of these things?

You *know* there'd be a CPF review by now.


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## WarRaven (Sep 2, 2015)

Time for their Xmas cash to roll in,
while they roll out during shuffle of holidays. 

I want one.


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

matrixshaman said:


> No this is NOT a shake light and is NOT a light you need to wind up. It does NOT need Sunlight. You just turn on the tail switch and it puts out 120 Lumens. After about 12 hours of runtime it will start to weaken so you just turn it off and let it sit a while. NO Recharging by any external source is needed. It gets its power from the Earth magnetic field and from what I understand probably also gets some power from EMF or electronic pollution by all the electronic devices around us. Either that or some more exotic sources such as ionics. And YES they are available for sale right now from what I can see. Web site below. $99
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VYC8K77MSc
> 
> ...



Editing this in an earlier post.

LOL! This thread starter was copy pasta from here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20251-schumann-resonance-flash-light.html
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20247-worlds-first-real-free-energy-flashlight-no-shaking-no-batteries-no-solar.html


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

OH LOL OLolololl!

The guy running the company is just a lawyer! 

http://au.linkedin.com/in/seedlegal

We are currently on page 8 of a search engine search. I get the feeling that ADGEX has paid handsomely to boost their page ranks and hide the spamming. It's there if you look.

Scam and spam thread.

If someone proves me wrong, I'll gladly apologize.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Sep 2, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Editing this in an earlier post.
> 
> LOL! This thread starter was copy pasta from here:
> http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20247-worlds-first-real-free-energy-flashlight-no-shaking-no-batteries-no-solar.html



WOW! You're right, he copied word-for-word that exact spam post from that other forum, and posted it here as himself. What a ****-bag. How can matrixshaman with over 3000 posts, be such a spamming shill for this crap? I'd expect that from a 1-poster, not a 3000-poster.


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

I know, right? If you're going to spam and shill, at least spam and shill for a valid product.

When you cross the line to spam, shill, AND scam... that's just too far.

I think CPF has beaten this product to death. Is there *ANYBODY* who made it this far in the thread who thinks this product is legit and valid?

OOH! We have flashaholics in Oz. Maybe some could drop by and have a chat with these jokers.

I think they've an office in Sydney.


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## KeepingItLight (Sep 2, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> WOW! You're right, he copied word-for-word that exact spam post from that other forum, and posted it here as himself...




It is possible, of course, that both posts were from the same person. Matrixshaman and ewizard could be the handles of a single poster.


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

The death blow: Can anyone find the light they are selling on DX or where ever? Starting to doubt they even make it.


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## pvsampson (Sep 2, 2015)

I found out a few days ago that some people actually think the world is ROUND.


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## ForrestChump (Sep 2, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> The death blow: Can anyone find the light they are selling on DX or where ever? Starting to doubt they even make it.




Nothing I saw suggested they were selling it.....


I think we all can fairly assume this is total vaporware.......it'll likely be ready when the TITA.........nope not going there...


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

Too bad Oz tax payers are losing millions. Someone, do something. Filing international charges is hard.


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## Mr Floppy (Sep 2, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Too bad Oz tax payers are losing millions. Someone, do something. Filing international charges is hard.



you don't have to file anything. It is free to report a scam. You can report it from anywhere you like even if you are not in Australia.. Google scam watch Australia report a scam. Should take you to the government website.


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## campingnut (Sep 3, 2015)

My pet unicorn says join us or be assimilated. Resistance is futile. :candle:


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## leon2245 (Sep 3, 2015)

I'm a pseudo intellectual who _specializes _in pseudo science, and I'm here to tell you that gravity, and light, and matter, and energy, and the 5th dimension, and _love, _are all the same.


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## more_vampires (Sep 3, 2015)

leon2245 said:


> I'm a pseudo intellectual who _specializes _in pseudo science, and I'm here to tell you that gravity, and light, and matter, and energy, and the 5th dimension, and _love, _are all the same.


Ahh! So you work for Solyndra! There is a matter of several hundred million dollars of wasted taxpayer money I'd like to talk to you about.

Care to discuss this?


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 3, 2015)

Let's keep it civil here, and not off the top.

Bill


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## KeepingItLight (Sep 3, 2015)

leon2245 said:


> I'm a pseudo intellectual who _specializes _in pseudo science, and I'm here to tell you that gravity, and light, and matter, and energy, and the 5th dimension, and _love, _are all the same.




Wow! I am too. I just love discourses with pseudo thinkers who agree with me. And let me say here that ignorance has never stopped me from stating an opinion.


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## richbuff (Sep 3, 2015)

I'm tired of being a fake pseudo intellectual. I wanna be a real pseudo intellectual!


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## thomas_sti_red (Sep 3, 2015)

All you unbelievers will be laughing no more when you see their 2016 project: the darkled. Sucking in light in a perfect beam, so we can block out the ghastly sun that is overheating our planet!
[emoji444][emoji444]"Fear of the dark, fear of the daaark" [emoji444][emoji444]
[emoji41]


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## dc38 (Sep 3, 2015)

Semantically...free energy might not mean "cost-free". It might mean energy that is not harnessed or contained or organized into a distribution process. Semantics are a very tricky and powerful tool, especially in marketing.


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## more_vampires (Sep 3, 2015)

thomas_sti_red said:


> All you unbelievers will be laughing no more when you see their 2016 project: the darkled. Sucking in light in a perfect beam, so we can block out the ghastly sun that is overheating our planet!
> [emoji444][emoji444]"Fear of the dark, fear of the daaark" [emoji444][emoji444]
> [emoji41]


I'm interested in your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. 



dc38 said:


> Semantically...free energy might not mean "cost-free". It might mean energy that is not harnessed or contained or organized into a distribution process. Semantics are a very tricky and powerful tool, especially in marketing.


Lol, if you can harness entropy you will be a billionaire with no advertisement or spamming required! 



Bullzeyebill said:


> Let's keep it civil here, and not off the top.
> Bill


I agree, Bill. However I hate blatant scammers. It makes me wonder how they are still operational when anyone with a brain knows it.

Also, by spamming me ADGEX has violated the US CAN-SPAM Act!  The CEO and others are liable for this.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/can-spam-act-compliance-guide-business


> Despite its name, the CAN-SPAM Act doesn’t apply just to bulk email. It covers all commercial messages, which the law defines as “any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service,” including email that promotes content on commercial websites. The law makes no exception for business-to-business email. That means all email – for example, a message to former customers announcing a new product line – must comply with the law.
> 
> Each separate email in violation of the CAN-SPAM Act is subject to penalties of up to $16,000, so non-compliance can be costly. But following the law isn’t complicated. Here’s a rundown of CAN-SPAM’s main requirements:
> 
> ...


According to US Federal Trade Commission, ADGEX now has international criminal status! 



> It covers all commercial messages, which the law defines as “any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service,”


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## KeepingItLight (Dec 25, 2015)

I think it's time for an update on the *Elfe flashlight*. It's so exciting now that December has rolled around, and this marvel of technology is finally going to be available. 

In case you don't remember, the Elfe is the amazing flashlight that gets free energy from the electron neutrino. Here is a blurb to explain it. It comes from the inventor's web site:



> To understand this energy, we must follow the flow of the electron neutrino which pierces the Earth's atmosphere in all directions. The initial source of atmospheric electricity originates from local currents and is counter acted by dynamic charges within clouds. The resulting lightning strikes pump energy into the earth-atmosphere cavity, and cause it to vibrate or resinate at extremely low frequencies; an effect called the Schumann resonance. These ultra-low frequency electro-magnetic oscillations come laden with reactive energy and travel around the Earth at the speed of light. The oscillations don’t fade, have fixed frequencies, and can provide an endless supply of energy to anyone who knows how to convert it.
> 
> Source: http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe



Just for fun, I put one of these in the shopping cart at the Elfe web site. I can hardly wait. Evidently, Elfe has kept its promise to begin shipping by 2015-Nov-28. At least, I think it has. Otherwise, how could it say this, when I checked my cart:



> *TERMS AND CONDITIONS*
> 
> By checking following checkbox, I acknowledge that I have read and understood the Terms and Conditions and agree to it.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, I did not have time to read the Terms and Conditions. I have purchased a few flashlights before, but no one ever made me sign a contract like this in order to do so. I was a little intimidated, so I deferred my purchase until another day. I hope I didn't make a mistake.


In case you missed them, here are a few highlights from this thread.



lampeDépêche said:


> This is just word-salad, with a neutrino on the top.





matrixshaman said:


> I put one in their cart just to see what ... but it said they won't be ready until November 28th.





KeepingItLight said:


> Okay, but while we are waiting, I hope you won't mind if I file this under, "If it sounds too good to be true, ..."
> 
> If a product will be ready for sale in only 90 days, then I would expect to find patents already on file. In addition, there should be a wealth of academic research on record discussing the science.
> 
> ...





KeepingItLight said:


> The idea of gathering energy from neutrinos is far-fetched, to say the least. Anyone who creates a mechanism for doing so will immediately be heralded as one of the great scientists of our day. Keeping the method secret, and then using it to sell "magic" flashlights for $99, is not a very believable scenario.





leon2245 said:


> I'm a pseudo intellectual who _specializes _in pseudo science, and I'm here to tell you that gravity, and light, and matter, and energy, and the 5th dimension, and _love, _are all the same.





KeepingItLight said:


> Wow! I am too. I just love discourses with pseudo thinkers who agree with me. And let me say here that ignorance has never stopped me from stating an opinion.





richbuff said:


> I'm tired of being a fake pseudo intellectual. I wanna be a real pseudo intellectual!


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## Benny Boy (Dec 25, 2015)

Given they state it's good for 2~5 years. Something must get depleted in that time period, turning the light into a small stick. Looks like a scam to me.



matrixshaman said:


> No this is NOT a shake light and is NOT a light you need to wind up. It does NOT need Sunlight. You just turn on the tail switch and it puts out 120 Lumens. After about 12 hours of runtime it will start to weaken so you just turn it off and let it sit a while. NO Recharging by any external source is needed. It gets its power from the Earth magnetic field and from what I understand probably also gets some power from EMF or electronic pollution by all the electronic devices around us. Either that or some more exotic sources such as ionics. And YES they are available for sale right now from what I can see. Web site below. $99
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VYC8K77MSc
> 
> ...


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 25, 2015)

I think someone needs to see a tear down of this light to show folks the truth about it. I remember long ago when shake lights were the rage for emergencies and some of the cheaper ones had batteries in them in concert with the recharging so they could give out light when you bought them but when those batteries depleted and you depended solely on the shaking for light many found it a huge amount of work for a miniscule amount of light. 99 dollars will buy you a nice 120 lumen light and a good charger and 2-3 sets of rechargeable batteries that you can use with other devices and even have 10-20 dollars left if you don't buy a fancy light. You can get a $15 one from home depot and order a $25 smart charger and 8 Duraloops for about 65 to 70 dollars or so and have light for longer runtime for sure instead of risking $99 on a possibly scam light with an 18650 battery in it that may take days even weeks to "charge" via EMF or solar or whatever method is purported with this gadget.


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## Rick NJ (Dec 25, 2015)

They may be good for emergency when you don't have electrical power to charge. One crank-light/shake-light in the house is not a bad idea.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 25, 2015)

Rick NJ said:


> They may be good for emergency when you don't have electrical power to charge. One crank-light/shake-light in the house is not a bad idea.


For the price of a crank or shake light worth having you can buy a brick of batteries and an inexpensive LED light that would have you plenty of light for a month or two. 
I recommend against hand powered lights in all but areas where there is no supply of batteries for months at a time and no external power source either. I would recommend a solar charger setup for batteries over crank anything.


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## KeepingItLight (Dec 27, 2015)

Two news items:


After accepting orders for almost 6 months now, and while continuing to accept orders, the designer of the Elfe flashlight announced his intention to seek Indiegogo funding on 2015-Nov-24. Note that the original web site stated that shipping would begin by 2015-Nov-28. I saw that statement myself, just a couple of days ago, while preparing my previous post. The web site _still _makes the lavish statement that you can expect to receive your Elfe in time for Xmas. 
In late October, 2015, the Elfe company sent an email to customers who had ordered the Elfe urging them to order the latest new product. As if a flashlight that gets energy from neutrinos were not enough, the new product is named "Tachyon." In physics, a tachyon is a _hypothetical _particle that travels faster than the speed of light. Most physicists discount the need to introduce tachyons in order to support current theories. Certainly, no evidence of one has ever been detected. If you have some money you are trying to get rid of, the Tachyon is supposed to be some sort of cell phone charging device. 
It seems like Elfe is going downhill. At least, neutrinos are real!

I would like to hear from matrixshaman, the original poster. I wonder what he thinks of these developments. No flashlight to date—not even a demo that engineers could inspect—and a request for customers to order another as-yet-undeveloped product.


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## dc38 (Dec 27, 2015)

Lol...tachyon...aptly named for something that cannot (yet) be observed...even if there were a particle travelling faster than the speed of light, we still should be able to see it if we are situated far enough away...after all, faster than light is just faster than light. Doesn't mean any dimension has been breached.



KeepingItLight said:


> Two news items:
> 
> 
> After accepting orders for almost 6 months now, and while continuing to accept orders, the designer of the Elfe flashlight announced his intention to seek Indiegogo funding on 2015-Nov-24. Note that the original web site stated that shipping would begin by 2015-Nov-28. I saw that statement myself, just a couple of days ago, while preparing my previous post. The web site _still _makes the lavish statement that you can expect to receive your Elfe in time for Xmas.
> ...


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## RetroTechie (Dec 27, 2015)

I'll predict this will turn into a case of

"Inventor" disappears / hides out somewhere, slamming the door when reporters knock, "NO COMMENT!". 
Funds invested by all those customers, 'miraculously' gone as well. 
No product turning up, or -at best- a few boxes with gear that doesn't do what was promised. 
Legal action. 
Law enforcement doing little to nothing because "the case is under investigation" (and will remain so for the next X years or so). 
Lawyers eating the remainder of whatever funds are recovered. 
Customers holding the bag & getting nothing. 
"Inventor" sitting on some tropical island working on his next scheme. 

Nonsense like this is powered (pun intended  ) by the endless stream of people who are stupid enough to buy into this crap. Aka "there's a new sucker born every day" (well actually, quite a few of them every day :laughing: ).

My view: if there really _IS_ something to a product, sooner or later it'll become popular, turn up in regular shops or the store on your street corner, and will be dissected here & there to explain how it works. And *shown* to work - by _anyone_ who cares to go through the trouble of doing so.

If not: nothing of value was lost, keep your money in your pocket.


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## Rick NJ (Dec 27, 2015)

Lynx_Arc said:


> For the price of a crank or shake light worth having you can buy a brick of batteries and an inexpensive LED light that would have you plenty of light for a month or two.
> I recommend against hand powered lights in all but areas where there is no supply of batteries for months at a time and no external power source either. I would recommend a solar charger setup for batteries over crank anything.




Solar charge! Ha, you obviously have not been through too many storms.

I had a load of batteries, but got caught with my pants down during Storm Sandy. They were not charged. Between about 20 AA, I got about an hour of light. A hand crank radio/LED took me through the next few days.

These days, I am well stocked with "emergency only" battery that is always fully charged. Well stocked with SLA's and RV lights that will illuminate my house. Well stocked with lithium 18650 that will give me mobile lighting...

But, have been through > 1 week when there is no store, no gasoline (in the area), no road, no battery, no electricity, no heat, no sun... Anything that is fully independent and human-powered is highly recommended. The time when I can really charge my batteries was when the rain stops. While there is no sun out, but with the rain stopped, I can use my car's jumper cable, run my car engine and juice up my in-house SLA's with the car jumper-cable.


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## LetThereBeLight! (Dec 27, 2015)

KeepingItLight said:


> Two news items:
> 
> 
> After accepting orders for almost 6 months now, and while continuing to accept orders, the designer of the Elfe flashlight announced his intention to seek Indiegogo funding on 2015-Nov-24. Note that the original web site stated that shipping would begin by 2015-Nov-28. I saw that statement myself, just a couple of days ago, while preparing my previous post. The web site _still _makes the lavish statement that you can expect to receive your Elfe in time for Xmas.
> ...



I humbly suggest to you, KeepingItLight, that you report this to Indiegogo as a fraudulent attempt to defraud an unsuspecting public as evidenced by continued meaningless verbiage and a product that was not brought to market nor delivered by this company's previously promised "Christmas" deadline. Thank you.


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 27, 2015)

LetThereBeLight! said:


> I humbly suggest to you, KeepingItLight, that you report this to Indiegogo as a fraudulent attempt to defraud an unsuspecting public as evidenced by continued meaningless verbiage ..............



Let's be careful about allegations of fraud. If you must continue in this vein, take it to PM's. Thanks.

Bill


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 27, 2015)

Rick NJ said:


> Solar charge! Ha, you obviously have not been through too many storms.
> 
> I had a load of batteries, but got caught with my pants down during Storm Sandy. They were not charged. Between about 20 AA, I got about an hour of light. A hand crank radio/LED took me through the next few days.
> 
> ...


I've lived through an ice storm that took half the state out of power and I was without power for almost 5 days. Luckily I had a car charger and a dozen nimh batteries to swap in and out of a few lights and a radio and a deck of cards but I still got bored luckily since then I've bought a battery powered dvd player that has a car charger too. I've also invested in USB power banks and a few USB LED and fan attachments for them to charge my ipod. I only need a USB powered radio.


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## RetroTechie (Dec 28, 2015)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Let's be careful about allegations of fraud.


2nd that!

But if some company/person takes orders for 6 months, has a product that seems questionable given the laws of physics, still hasn't delivered (or at least not much of substance), and then goes looking to start a crowdfunding campaign to raise *more* money, one has to admit that smells fishy.
A forum like this that's "in the know" on the subject matter, would do better to aid in preventing such actions from having success, than thread more careful than necessary and as a result, possibly allow more buyers to be victimized.
Not outright saying this *is* a case of fraud: not enough info to make that claim imho. Maybe producer has good intentions, but is struggling to produce. Or have the product match expectations. But a "buyer beware!" attitude seems very much in place here.

So in this case, I'd support informing Indiegogo so that at least they're aware of the situation (in case they aren't already). Surely they'll have some experts to judge the risks & merits of projects, so that would be up to them. And then supporters of that campaign (if launched) could make an informed decision what risk they want to take.

Starter of this project would do well to start delivering some actual product. Or at least provide some more tangible evidence on what's the hold-up. 6 Months is a long time to wait for product already paid for. Especially if it was advertised as ready-to-buy product (not _started_ as crowdfunding campaign).

Edit: see that Indiegogo campaign was already launched. And closed. 4 backers, unfunded... And read that starter wants to start another campaign since "this one wasn't successful". :shakehead:laughing: Oh well... either this guy has lots to learn, is plain stupid, or this whole thing is fishy indeed.


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## bykfixer (Dec 28, 2015)

2 words...

Primary Stockpile.


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## dc38 (Dec 28, 2015)

You know...if this is "substantiable", what if the campaigner is merely raising funds for a full patent before releasingpublic info? He could very well be the Tesla of our time.


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## RetroTechie (Dec 28, 2015)

Shouldn't have _started_ with selling product, then. Buyers expect product upon payment. If product is out there, it can be reverse engineered.

Other options: invest some savings, friends/family, VC (venture capitalist), or... _begin_ with a crowdfunding campaign (where raised funds may include the money needed to get a patent).

Again not saying it is, but done as described, it still _looks_ fishy to me. Energy harvesting from RF signals (like from Wi-Fi routers) has been done before, but enough to power a reasonable-output flashlight? "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". And when talk moves to harvesting energy from particles like neutrino's and such (or whatever), then even more so.


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## Woods Walker (Dec 28, 2015)

Free energy violates about every law in the universe except the Internet in which every thing is possible.


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## bykfixer (Dec 28, 2015)

FREE! FREE! FREE!!!

Works everytime.


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 28, 2015)

This thread has run its course, and only gets crazier the longer it lasts.

Bill


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