# Steels??



## SAR (Nov 9, 2007)

What kind of steel is in your custom or production?

What do all those numbers mean anyone curious? AUS8, s30v?

Does it really matter to you? or as long as you can get it sharp and it cuts all that matters?


What would like to see in your knives?

Spencer


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## karlthev (Nov 9, 2007)

I have an extensive collection of custom knives from many makers using all types of steels. It seems that very often brand new steels are developed which represent the ultimate. In fact the qualities of steels vary widely but fall along very similar paths. Is one the best? No. A blade so hard that it is virtually one which will never dull will be virtually impossible to sharpen and may very well be brittle. Most of my custom knives aren't found with me in the woods getting beat up and losing their collectability anyway, they're in case for looking and admiring. Those with me in the field (my EDC is a Swiss Army knife!) were purchased for use and, are fairly easy to sharpen and hard to rust. 

What is the significance of the numbers? Composition of the steel and method of production.


Karl


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## ACMarina (Nov 9, 2007)

My EDC is a Benchmade Stryker, in 154CM. 

I didn't buy it for the steel, I bought it for the feel of the handle and the way it rides in my pocket. I'd like to see more done with H1 steel, which I've found to be very nice in an aquatic environment..


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## Illum (Nov 9, 2007)

EDC: Kershaw Leek
[SIZE=-1]440A Stainless
nothing expensive...bought because it looked "unusual"
[/SIZE]


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## Trashman (Nov 10, 2007)

I think the S30V is one of the "top" American made steels. AUS8 is German, if I'm not mistaken. As has already been mentioned, the different steels have different qualities. Some are more rust proof than others and require less attention. Some will sharpen much sharper than others, but may not be able to retain the edge as well (dulls more easily) as a steel that won't get as sharp. Like wise, some steels will stay sharp for much longer than others. Some sharpen more quickly than others, too. And some are better for taking a beating (like in a good Ax or hatchet). Some steels will do better in wet/salty environments (marine). 

People (or knife makers) will often choose specific steels for specific purposes. For me, I'm pretty fond of 154CM. I've got some blades with other steels, but I've not yet used them to cut *anything*, so I can't really extol their virtues. So far, though, the 154CM (on my Benchmade Benchmite) is the sharpest thing I've come across (scary is the word...), but who knows, I may have something sharper on my shelf!


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## ringzero (Nov 10, 2007)

SAR said:


> What kind of steel is in your custom or production?...What do all those numbers mean anyone curious? AUS8, s30v?...Does it really matter to you? or as long as you can get it sharp and it cuts all that matters?




Functionality is all that matters to me.

I think much of the promotion of so-called "super" steels for knife blades amounts to marketing hype.

I have several ancient carbon steel knives that still cut and hold an edge well enough to satisfy me. I don't like knives that are difficult to sharpen. I don't like knives with very hard blades that may have a tendency to chip or crack under hard use.

I've seen people damage expensive custom and semi-custom blades while performing cutting chores that weren't all that demanding IMHO. The edges chipped out and in one case the blade cracked.

Those blades chipped or broke while performing woodcrafting chores that were within the normal operating capabilities of much less expensive knives with carbon or less brittle stainless blades.

.


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## SAR (Nov 10, 2007)

Nice and varied answers I understand how the "super steels" get hyped up, as we know the steel combined with good heat treat create the "soul" of the knife.

Carbon steel is a proven performer and has been in use much longer than its stainless steel cousins, but the problem with carbon is its ability to rust if not cared for. Carbon steel is very easy to get an edge but has a hard time keeping it ( depending whats being cut ) Being able to to do whats called "selective hardened" makes carbon a good choice for say a large chopper, sword etc
*"The simple alloys can also be selectively hardened, not with a fancy temper line, but with a softer back that will make the spine and tang less susceptible to breakage. All you have to do is take the blade up to heat very quickly, getting the thin parts along the edge hot before the thicker spine. You could also just dip the cutting edge into the oil, allowing the spine to cool more slowly, not hardening it."*


The "Super steels" and there are a lot of them have lots of merits, easy to maintain, keeps it edge sharp and sharper longer. There are lots of trade offs and it becomes a decision of what might be the intended use of the tool for instance when a maker increases the toughness he in fact reduce's the strength of the knife.

I really not looking to get into arguements about steel and want to establish that I do not have a degree in metallurgy. I do however take it very seriously reading, studying and asking question of people that do know.


CPM 154 CM is my go to steel for a majority of my designs, its time tested, holds a great edge, tough, strong, priced well and for the end user is easy to maintain an edge.

Here is a page that has some good info written so you can understand it and not so long you lose interest. http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html

We could also walk down another path of cryo quenching?

No drama just good conversation

Spencer


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## da.gee (Nov 10, 2007)

Here's a nice table:

knife steel info


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## SAR (Nov 10, 2007)

da.gee said:


> Here's a nice table:
> 
> knife steel info




That is very good info, there are lots of reference's out there some are harder to understand than others.

Thanks
Spencer


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## Illum (Nov 10, 2007)

a little off topic, but anyone like D2 steel?
still thinking about one of these: *http://tinyurl.com/ytqv2w*


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## SAR (Nov 10, 2007)

D2 is very tough stuff the target hardness for me is about 60-61, it will rust as it is a semi stainless.

It has a very large carbide structure which produces a very "toothy-edge" great for cutting rope etc.

The knife in question has a coating so you will not have to worry about rust.

Crucible did a small run of CPM D2 I have a few bars in the shop, makes a great blade.

Lastly it always seems when a new steel comes out it is compared to D2

Spencer


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## Illum (Nov 10, 2007)

:thanks: I'm not a blade-head so stuff like carbon composition, hardness scale... that sort of things are Greek to me


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## SAR (Nov 10, 2007)

Just as I am not a super duper flashlight guy, but I would like to know what makes things tick, such as the steel in a knife is the most important thing going and how it applies to what you may use it for.

Form follows *function* it seems like a catch phrase but its the truth.

Spencer


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## ACMarina (Nov 10, 2007)

Spencer, why aren't more folks using the rustproof H1 steel? Any idea?


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## mossyoak (Nov 10, 2007)

My edc is a Strider SnG and it has S30V bladesteel, but my favorite fixed is D2 (ontario RAT-3) and my small knife is 154cm (mini grip), i have noticed alot of custom knife makers use 154cm i guess because it is easy to work with.


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## cutlerylover (Nov 11, 2007)

I don't usually purposely go for better steels, I get knives depending on style, size, and shape, but if the option is present I do go for a higher end steel, for example, one of my EDC's is a D2 griptilian, I ahve ownd the original version with 440C, then had a 154CM version, and now have a D2 version...I find that they al perform well for average tasks, but the D2 has much better edge retention, so I do not have to sharpen it as often as I did the 154CM blade, and the 440C...For simple, light to medium cuttign jobs, most steels will work fine for you, just depedns on how good you are at sharpenign, and how often you would want to tocuh up your blades, for me sharpening is just as fun as using the knife, so I don't mind or snuff off cheaper steels like AUS-8, 440C, and carbon steels like 1095...They are all nice and they all ahve their advantages one way or another...may it be ease of sharpening, edge retention, or maybe just value...Blade steel is a preference thing, whats good for one person might not be good for another, if you can try to get a hold of different steesl to see what fits your needs...


Alton Brown put it best when he said knife steels are like cakes...they all have the baisic ingredients like flour, water, sugar, etc...but each cake has different flavors, shapes, and designs...different variations as to how much of each ingredient is what makes the differences between steels...


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## carrot (Nov 11, 2007)

Most of my favorite knives are VG-10 or S30V. I prefer VG-10 over S30V but the knife that sees the most action seems to be the S30V one, by virtue of its design.


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## mossyoak (Nov 11, 2007)

ACMarina said:


> Spencer, why aren't more folks using the rustproof H1 steel? Any idea?



because its allround performance isnt as good as some other steels.


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2007)

My favorite steel is actually one that used to be popular.... not anymore.:sigh:

*AUS-8A*.

Took and held an edge well, easier to sharpen than ATS-34, more rust-resistant and cheaper than ATS-34.

All of the above is based on personal experience.


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2007)

Illum_the_nation said:


> a little off topic, but anyone like D2 steel?


 
I actually have some sharpening skills, and a nice assortment of sharpening kits & systems.... All I can say is, I'd rather try sharpening a block of cement than taking on D2.


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## SAR (Nov 11, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> I actually have some sharpening skills, and a nice assortment of sharpening kits & systems.... All I can say is, I'd rather try sharpening a block of cement than taking on D2.



Thats pretty funny but its true, some steels are very difficult to resharpen unless you have a knifemaker grinder sitting in you house.

One thing about keeping knives sharp is to maintain the edge, light work on a stone, or sharpmaker, and then stroping. You will find that you can keep knife steels such as D2 in a nice razor sharp state, it when you keep cutting and cutting letting the edge get completely dull you then have problems. It will take someone with a machine, grinder etc to get it back.

Spencer


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## ErickThakrar (Nov 11, 2007)

The only thing that's ever made a knife more difficult to sharpen than any other knife, is the grind of the blade in question. I've had no trouble sharpening knives made with a variety of steels. S30V, D2, M2, etc. They all sharpen just fine with basic tools.


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## SAR (Nov 11, 2007)

Cool thats good some folks have a hard time with it, but different steels are harder to sharpen.

Spencer


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## ErickThakrar (Nov 11, 2007)

Oh sure. There are definitely steels out there that have much higher wear resistances and such. But still, use a quality ceramic stone or diamond sharpeners and they all sharpen just fine. Just a question of skill in the end. If you wish to negate some of that, use something like a Lansky or Edge Pro, if you have the cash for one.


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## Dirty Bob (Nov 12, 2007)

No one's talked about it, but heat treatment is as important as steel choice. Some companies -- like Spyderco and Benchmade -- are well known for good, consistent heat treatment.

A 440A or AUS-6 blade, if given an excellent heat treatment, can perform very well. A mediocre heat treat, on the other hand, will fail to take advantage of the excellent characteristics of steels like D-2, A-1, ATS-34, etc.

It's not just the steel that matters! It's what you do with it!

Regards,
Dirty Bob


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## SAR (Nov 12, 2007)

Bob very good point your simple steels like 1095, 01, etc if HT'ed corrrectly will yield some great results. If HT'ed poorly it can be dangerous to the user, I do both heat treat in the shop and send blades out to Paul Bos ( heat treater for buck knives) Paul is a heat treat leader in the industry.

I have everything i need to provide my steel with good solid HT electronicly controlled kiln's, rockwell tester and most important a running log on all steels I have heat treated aids in consistant results and contant imporvements.

Paul is great because you can send out 20-30 blades which frees a guy up to work on other stuff, and you know when your stuff comes back its been taken care of.

I am currently working on a design ( rescue tool ) and plan to use 440c having it Ht'ed at Bos, it will yield a strong tool that is priced in the budget of most Ems, firefighter, and soldiers wallet.

No offense but if you look at ATS-134 and 154 cm its the same steel and requires the same HT

Good points
Spencer


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## Art Vandelay (Nov 13, 2007)

ACMarina said:


> Spencer, why aren't more folks using the rustproof H1 steel? Any idea?


Good question. I like that it work hardens. Crucible did a test on a serrated Spyderco after work and found that it had a hardness of 58 on the spine and 68 on the blade edge. That sounds great to me. My guess is that would give you the hardness you want without being overly brittle.


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## Muppet (Nov 13, 2007)

I've always been partial to VG10. 

S30V is very, very good stuff but it's kind of a bear to sharpen not because it's *that* hard, but because you always know it *could* be sharper if you're willing to mess around with it more.

I often have to cut really insanely abrasive materials (fiberglass tape, and polyiso insulation panels which have a lot of fiberglass in them) and for those jobs, it's snap-blade knife and a little keychain sharpener that I swipe the blade on every few cuts or nothing. The ratio of cutting time to sharpening time just doesn't work, at all, for harder steels or better knives.


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## SAR (Nov 15, 2007)

Muppet said:


> I've always been partial to VG10.
> 
> S30V is very, very good stuff but it's kind of a bear to sharpen not because it's *that* hard, but because you always know it *could* be sharper if you're willing to mess around with it more.
> 
> I often have to cut really insanely abrasive materials (fiberglass tape, and polyiso insulation panels which have a lot of fiberglass in them) and for those jobs, it's snap-blade knife and a little keychain sharpener that I swipe the blade on every few cuts or nothing. The ratio of cutting time to sharpening time just doesn't work, at all, for harder steels or better knives.



Have you ever looked into Stellite 6K or its friend talonite

http://www.stellite.com/


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## Muppet (Nov 15, 2007)

Wow, what an interesting material. No, I haven't tried that. It would be an interesting test!


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## SAR (Nov 15, 2007)

Muppet said:


> Wow, what an interesting material. No, I haven't tried that. It would be an interesting test!



It has been said that the more you use it the sharper it seems to get.....reason as the other componets wear down you are left with carbides. It is expensive as you can imagine, last time I check it was about $105.00 a pound.

It requires no HT but doe's not do well in the prying and is known to bend, say you hit a bone the edge will roll easy to fix.

Spencer


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## RA40 (Nov 15, 2007)

There are steels that will have improved characteristics for certain environments and tasks...largely, unless it rusts on sight or is so brittle it chips, most fall midway to me and it is not a selling point. Few users will really be on that extreme edge where a percent of some such element will truly show a benefit real world. The key is in the heat treat of any steel. 

This is why I still find ATS-34 and 440-C to be excellent performers. These steels have had lots of testing in industry and it is a known. Many won't have Burr Kings or like bench grinders but even without, I have no issues using a whetstone to sharpen these...that blend of usability to maintenance. D2 works well for me as well, for each steel so long as the user is aware of care procedures...no worries. 

Lots of marketing and ultimately, up to you if you believe if the tool really benefits from it.


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## Monocrom (Nov 15, 2007)

Different steels are like the personalities of various women you've dated over the years.... Each one is different. Just depends which one you like for a combination of her strengths, and the annoying aspects that you can _most _tolerate.


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## Gadget Guy (Nov 16, 2007)

I'm a big fan of BG-42, but I don't understand why most makers don't use it anymore?


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## Dirty Bob (Nov 16, 2007)

Since I'm not a metallurgist and don't know nearly as much as some of you guys, I primarily stick with a few companies that use good steel and do a good job of heat treating it. Spyderco and Benchmade are both solid choices in this category. I used to like Cold Steel, but many of their knives are now made of steels that I've learned to avoid, like the 420 series and Krupp 4116 (IIRC). I might buy another CS knife in the future, but I'll have to do some research before making a purchase. It's really a shame, because I like some of their designs.

Regards,
Dirty Bob


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## cutlerylover (Nov 16, 2007)

The truth is most of us would be more than fine with a properly heat treated 440C blade, but us knife guys get spiled with our super steels, and some of the old school guys love their carbon blades...Most steels today from a decent company will perform very well under normal everday use...Now that beign said if you buy a knife for a specific job in mind, for example openign boxes at a warehouse...or your an electrition and need a knife for the job, then you mgith want a specific steel for its posotive attributes...but for general use almost any blade is good enough if you know what I mean...


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## Chuck Bybee (Dec 12, 2007)

Art Vandelay said:


> Crucible did a test on a serrated Spyderco after work and found that it had a hardness of 58 on the spine and 68 on the blade edge.


Do you have a reference or link to the test?

Spencer is making great points and is a knifemaker who is going places. The only point I disagree with is the price of Stellite 6K & Talonite:


> It is expensive as you can imagine, last time I check it was about $105.00 a pound.


The price is more than $200 per pound! 

These alloys have specific uses where they are great. Use them in the wrong scenerio and they will perfom poorly.


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## Joe Talmadge (Dec 12, 2007)

http://www.edcknives.com/vcom/knife_knowledge.php Go to number 10, on Steel. Different steels have different qualities, so for me the question of "favorite steel" is meaningless outside the context of a particular use. In addition, the advantages of different steels are often minimized unless the steel's properties are highlighted in the edge geometry ... in other words, if you sharpen all knives, regardless of steel and usage, to the same edge geometry, you will tend to see less performance difference between steels than someone who sharpens a steel to bring out its best properties. That's likely why some people see such little difference between the way steels perform, and others see big differences.


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## Art Vandelay (Dec 13, 2007)

Originally Posted by *Art Vandelay* 

 
_Crucible did a test on a serrated Spyderco after work and found that it had a hardness of 58 on the spine and 68 on the blade edge._




Chuck Bybee said:


> Do you have a reference or link to the test?
> .



Here you go.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3018582&postcount=28

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3498096&postcount=3


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## Dirty Bob (Dec 13, 2007)

Joe Talmadge and cutlerylover both make great points. For a long time, I've thought that most of us are best off with something in the AUS-8/440C class, unless there's a real need for the expense of a higher-end steel.

I believe that in many cases, the person buying a high end knife pays more but never notices the difference in performance from a mid-priced knife.

There are some really great knives for decent prices, if you know what to look for! As I've said before, the Spyderco and Benchmade lines are great starting places. I continue to be amazed at the edge holding of my Frost "Swedish Army Knife." This featherweight fixed blade -- properly sharpened -- holds an edge for a surprising long time, considering I paid all of about $12 for it! It's my primary wood working knife. It has shaved a lot of paper-thin slivers of wood from the tenons in a set of bookshelves I'm building, and it's still very sharp. Another great bang-for-the-buck knife is any of the French Opinels. Superb blade geometry makes them wonderful slicers.

All my best,
Dirty Bob


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## Joe Talmadge (Dec 13, 2007)

Dirty Bob said:


> Joe Talmadge and cutlerylover both make great points. For a long time, I've thought that most of us are best off with something in the AUS-8/440C class, unless there's a real need for the expense of a higher-end steel.



Bob,

In a way, I'm saying something different. I am saying that you might find the expense of a higher-end steel worth it, if you choose the right steel and -- most importantly -- choose the right edge geometry. I think many people would be just as well off choosing a lower-end steel because they are not taking advantage of the properties of the higher-end steel ... but if they did, the difference might be so apparent they might never go back. 

Or, to put it another way, if my choice is between an AUS-8 or D-2 blade, and all I'm going to do is drop it on my Spyderco Sharpmaker at 20 degrees per side, what will the real difference be? Both blades will cut with exactly the same efficiency. The D-2 blade will last longer, but the AUS-8 blade is easier to sharpen and doesn't rust as fast. Why did I pick the D-2 blade again? So I could go an extra two weeks before sharpening? In that case -- which is probably the usual case -- I don't see why it would be worth it to spend a ton more for the higher-end D-2 steel. But, what if I take advantage of D-2's ability to maintain toughness at significantly greater strength, by sharpening the D-2 blade at 12 degrees per side? Now, when I go to cut, say, a piece of rope, I could cut in one stroke with the D-2 blade where it would take 5 strokes with thicker AUS-8 blade ... the difference in performance is a pure joy. Those hard plastic clamshells packages? The D-2 blade at 12 degrees zips through like it's nothing, the thicker lower-end steel catches and takes much more work. Same story with almost every material. Assuming I actually _use_ the knife, and have picked the right steel and right edge geometry, the higher end steel knife may blow away the lower-end. But that all assumes I put some effort into figuring out the right steel and geometry for my intended use...


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## Dirty Bob (Dec 14, 2007)

Joe:

That was *very* well put. I liked the D2 example. Afterwards, I was wondering if there was a FAQ or other guide to steer folks like me to making the best of the various steels when sharpening. Didn't you do some great sharpening guide that I remember hearing about?

I do have an S30V Buck Hartsook and one of the VG-10 Spydercos. Perhaps my Sharpmaker isn't the best tool for those steels?

On the other hand, the huge sharpening bevels on Scandinavian knives really seem to make sharpening a breeze. My aforementioned Frosts of Sweden "Army Knife" cuts very aggressively when the bevel is laid right on the stone for sharpening.

Thanks,
Dirty Bob


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## cutlerylover (Dec 14, 2007)

Dirty Bob said:


> Joe:
> 
> On the other hand, the huge sharpening bevels on Scandinavian knives really seem to make sharpening a breeze. My aforementioned Frosts of Sweden "Army Knife" cuts very aggressively when the bevel is laid right on the stone for sharpening.
> 
> ...


 
Thats the advantage of a single beveled knife (scandinavian style) over a double bevel, which is what most of us are use to in our folders...a single bevel carbon blade will outperform (don't quote me though, some might dissagree, lol) almost all of its double bevel competitors, even the higher end CPMS30V, VG-10, and D2 blades...

And the bets part is most of those scandi knives are cheap! But, the downside is you onyl see the medium sized fixed blades as apposed to many different single bevel folders...


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## NA8 (Jan 26, 2008)

Joe Talmadge said:


> http://www.edcknives.com/vcom/knife_knowledge.php Go to number 10, on Steel...



Just in case anyone else likes that balisong in the edcknives.com logo, here's the page for it: 

http://www.edcknives.com/vcom/product_info.php?cPath=1_18&products_id=1392

(More pix at the bottom of the page.)


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## tensixteen (Jan 27, 2008)

My persona EDC now is a Tom Mayo Tnt in CPM420V, also known as S90. Personally i don't really nitpick about my steels, with 1 slight exception. That is, I live in a humid place called Singapore, and steels tend to go dull without even me using the blade! I had a friend attribute this to what he terms as micro-corrosion. Maybe Spencer could enlighten me on this?

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## schiesz (Jan 28, 2008)

Gadget Guy said:


> I'm a big fan of BG-42, but I don't understand why most makers don't use it anymore?



I'm a fan of BG42 as well. I just re-bladed a 110 to make my 5th folder from BG42.

If I understand correctly, it is expensive and difficult to get in quantity. Add the two together and its easy to see why knifemakers are not using it, especially since there is now CPM S30V with very similar characteristics that is available in quantity. 

schiesz


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## guyg (Jan 28, 2008)

My favorite is Damascus. Holds a good edge, easy to sharpen and looks coool. My next favorite is BG 42, then ATS 34.
BG42 is expensive, hard to work with and hard to sharpen. S30V was developed for the average knife buyer to maintain easier. 
When it gets down to it a good sharpener will keep any steel usable.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 29, 2008)

New 'super' stainless steels are awesome ( for small knifes and folders ), but nothing can beat a good high-carbon steel for bigger blades.

BTW, if you have a Spyderco Sharpmaker or some Diamond/Ceramic stone, you can easily handle any steel. I have no problems with CPM-D2 and my sharpening skills are totally crude.


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## fludunlimited (Feb 11, 2008)

for me S30V is a pain to finish.
I like the way cpm 154 rubbs out.

just finished this one friday in cpm 154
took about an hour less then rubbing S30V


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## Kostoglotov (Feb 12, 2008)

Dirty Bob said:


> No one's talked about it, but heat treatment is as important as steel choice. Some companies -- like Spyderco and Benchmade -- are well known for good, consistent heat treatment.
> 
> A 440A or AUS-6 blade, if given an excellent heat treatment, can perform very well. A mediocre heat treat, on the other hand, will fail to take advantage of the excellent characteristics of steels like D-2, A-1, ATS-34, etc.
> 
> ...


 

Just my novice opinion but IMO this is the most critical component in making a good kinfe. 

The link below explains some of the differences between 440 & S30V - http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/S30Vvs440C3.pdf

The Micostructure is a fairly important consideration as well.


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## Dr_Lumen (Mar 6, 2008)

tensixteen said:


> My persona EDC now is a Tom Mayo Tnt in CPM420V, also known as S90. Personally i don't really nitpick about my steels, with 1 slight exception. That is, I live in a humid place called Singapore, and steels tend to go dull without even me using the blade! I had a friend attribute this to what he terms as micro-corrosion. Maybe Spencer could enlighten me on this?
> 
> Cheers and Regards,
> Nick


 
At last... this is the first time I've ever seen mention of something I've observed for years... even in not-very-humid Australia (well, the south isn't humid) I have seen this repeatedly. Non-stainless steels will lose their edge without use - and this "micro-corrosion" at the blade's edge is what I've always attributed it to (although I've never used that term before). It seems to affect some steels more than others (obviously) - for example I have a couple of O-1 blades (O-1 is not particularly corrosion resistant), that don't seem to lose their edge. I have a D-2 blade (D-2 IS quite corrosion resistant) that does seem to lose it's edge. So while there seems to be some intricacies involved in exactly which steels are most susceptible, I certainly support the view that corrosion on the sharpened edge of a knife will cause it to "rust blunt".

To comment on another theme in this thread... Okay, so I've been called a "steel snob", but I definitely base purchasing decisions on the steel used in a knife. I am really into edge holding, so no matter how much a knife might appeal to me, if the blade is 440-A or AUS-8 or the like, sorry, not interested - I know I'll be disappointed - blades composed of these steels are cheap for a reason. This usually applies to 440-C which is my pet hate as far as steels go (although I will make exceptions here) - I'm sure I'll get lots of comments on that one :nana:.

Good stuff: S30V, 154CM, ATS-34, S60V, S90V, BG-42, VG-10, O-1 (there are others!)
Not interested: 440-A,B,C; 420, AUS-6,8
Jury is out: ZDP-189. 

Yes, I know heat treating is just as important as the choice of steel - but most commercial knife manufacturers probably get that pretty right - so then it comes down to the composition of the steel.

This is one of those questions where everyone has a different opinion - so that's my contribution to the mix :wave:. 
I'm sure I've been controversial enough to upset someone...

Rod..


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## Hitthespot (Mar 6, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> My favorite steel is actually one that used to be popular.... not anymore.:sigh:
> 
> *AUS-8A*.
> 
> ...


 
I will 2nd the AUS-8A. I have some old Phil Hoffman Condor knives that I believe are made of this steel and they take a Razor sharp edge. Some of the best knives I ever purchased for the price. Some of the few knives even I can put an edge on. I wish I would have bought many more. 

Bill


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## J!m (Mar 6, 2008)

I have a Benchmade in D2 and I am quite happy with it.

it was also quite sharp when I purchased it, but the selling point for me (I wasn't even looking for a knife at the time) was the blade material. After running it through a ceramic hone, the edge was, quite simply, wicked.

I had (still have) a Kershaw 'assisted opening' (Spring loaded) folder that I really liked for the one-handed opening feature, but the blade would dull very quickly doing all sorts of menial cutting tasks one might ask of a pocket knife.

The D2 was billed as "second to ceramic in hardness" by the salesman and although this often means "Brittle as old lady's hips" I bit the bullet and bought the D2.

It is a more difficult steel to sharpen due to the hardness (I use ceramic for touch-up and an oil stone the rest of the time if needed- I have not needed it yet) and it holds an edge FAR better (and longer) than the Kershaw does.

For those who commented about "rusting dull" the D2 will do this. It was the first knife I have owned (aside from a Kershaw interchangeable blade knife- one blade is the best limb saw I have ever used, and it rusts easily) that rusted on the edge (the D2 blade is black coated- but not the edge, obviously). I was shocked, and touched it up immediately. A light film of Gun Oil is a good idea on *any* blade, but honestly it is mandatory on the D2 in my experience...

I will get a D2 bladed fixed blade from Benchmade as well. I am sold on their quality and attention to detail above all other "off the shelf" knife brands. Custom stuff is, well, custom, and perfect, as it should be...


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## Monocrom (Mar 7, 2008)

Hitthespot said:


> I will 2nd the AUS-8A. I have some old Phil Hoffman Condor knives that I believe are made of this steel and they take a Razor sharp edge. Some of the best knives I ever purchased for the price. Some of the few knives even I can put an edge on. I wish I would have bought many more.
> 
> Bill


 
I like the fact that stainless steel Randall knives are made from 440B. 

AUS-8A is its identical twin from Japan.


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## ErickThakrar (Mar 8, 2008)

J!m said:


> The D2 was billed as "second to ceramic in hardness" by the salesman and although this often means "Brittle as old lady's hips" I bit the bullet and bought the D2.




He lied to you.


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## schiesz (Mar 9, 2008)

ErickThakrar said:


> He lied to you.



Pretty much, yep.

Maybe second in hardness in WHAT HE CARRIED, but at 58-60 HRC it is far from the hardest steel out there. You can get 1095 to 66 HRC if its just hardness that you are after.

Of course, there is a lot more to look for in a knife blade than hardness. You also mention the ability of the blade to rust, so keep in mind that D2 is NOT a stainless steel.

schiesz


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## Monocrom (Mar 9, 2008)

schiesz said:


> .... keep in mind that D2 is NOT a stainless steel.
> 
> schiesz


 
Ironically, in some parts of the world; it is considered to be a stainless steel. But on the low end of stain-resistence. 

In America, it's a carbon steel with better than average stain-resistence. 

Funny how outlook affects the description.


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## ksc73164 (Mar 21, 2008)

Here is a link to a great article on knife steels that I first read several years ago. It is "The Knife Steel FAQ by Joe Talmadge".
http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html
Thank you Mr. Talmadge.
Here is a link to the list of articles where I found it.
http://www.knifeart.com/knifearticles.html


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