# Any one have experience with zoom flashlights from.



## NeilP (Nov 25, 2014)

I have been looking at budget lights for a zoomable handheld flashlight as it seems that none of the quality manufacturers seem to make one.

The reason i have seen given is that it is a gimmicky way to add a feature and the zoom mechanism will loose light I can see that this maybe true, but these modern LED's are so powerful, even the most cheap and basic modern LED $10 flashlight is better than most incan lamps from 20 years ago. so if you loose a few Lumen ...to my mind so what, if you get the beam you need.

I won't go in to my reasoning for wanting two beam types, just suffice to say I'd like a really wide low level flood and a beam with little or no spill that goes out a short distance of 20-30 feet, no more needed, with max light at that distance.

You have to bear in mind that I am saying that from the point of view of never having owned any high quality flashlights as yet. All I have at the moment is two LED Lenser pocket lamps, (a single cell AAA v8 and some other twin cell AAA) and a selection of incan Maglites.



So I until I get my first good lamp, I was going to try out some cheap ones from MyLED.com the zoomable types. I won't put the links to them here as I believe that will break forum rules as they are sales sites. 
If anyone thinks I am mistaken i will come back and edit this post with the links.

So to find out what lamps I mean you will have to search their site for them.


These are the ones I thought



*LED Flashlight Cree XM-L T6 800Lm 3-Mode Natural White Zooming-Black(1x18650/3xAA)

LED Flashlight Cree XP-G R5 180Lm 3-Mode Natural White Rechargeable Zooming-Brown+Golden(1x18650/3xAAA) EU Plug

LED Flashlight Cree XP-E R2 200Lm 3-Mode Natural White Rechargeable Zooming-Black(1x18650/3xAAA) EU Plug.



*Anyone have any experience of these lights?

Thanks


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## TEEJ (Nov 25, 2014)

The reasons are that a zoom flashlight is typically bought to only need one flashlight for long and close distances...by giving it a floody beam close up and a tight beam far away.

The problem is not the lumens per se, its the beam patterns. IE: You get a worse floody beam, and a worse throwy beam, while sort of getting both functions.

The LED Lenser solutions are about as close as you can get to that working. The compromise is that its not as good a flood beam, and, not as good a throw beam, as a dedicated light could have provided, and, its not a weather resistance, etc, due to the way it has to move to change the function.

I'll also point out that the Lenser actually does focus from flood to throw, as opposed to say a maglight, which really just UNFOCUSES to make the beam random rather than focused.

I used to use the Lenser flood/zooms a lot, and stopped when the better dedicated lights simply blew them out of the water in form/function. 

So, if you're a flashaholic AND only want one light, really, I'd recommend getting a strong floody light with multiple output options over a flood to zoom light. IE: I have floody lights that out throw the zoomed flood to throw, and out flood the fooded zoom to flood, etc....so I can see farther than the zoomed light can, and, see wider than the flooded light can....without my light needing to zoom in/out.


Examples:


Zoomed LED Lenser T7









Flood LED Lenser T7








Kobolt 500 (Lowes brand inexpensive LED light, cheaper than Lenser T7, doesn't zoom in/out, just fixed focus)








As you can see, even with the poor quality pics, the light from the inexpensive fixed focus flashlight, for less money than the zoomie lenser, both floods more, and throws more....without needing to zoom in for throw or out for flood.

That is what I meant by the beam patterns being better.

The zoomed light has less throw, and the flooded light has less flood, so, why bother to zoom in/out if its not BETTER?


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## NeilP (Nov 25, 2014)

I am trying got get a throw spot with virtually no spill, a nice sharp edge. I want it for lighten yup something through a perspex window, so something that give a sharp output is better. Over many years I have tried ,multiple lights and the best are always thin pencil beams, given gbetter penetration and less scatter back from the perspex windows in to the cockpit.

Also to then be able to use that light internally with a big flood at a few lumens for internal light of the instruments 

I have lamps that do both jobs well, just trying got find one that means a reduce what I carry in the cockpit.

Your pictures really do show exactly what I want with the beam shots from the LED Lenser. 

I wanted to have 18650 power, rather than AA or AAA , again for simplicity, I already run another device off of 18650's and have many of them..pkus again , only one battery spare to type to carry.

This is why my list in the OP is all Zoomable 18650 units.

I also live on a small island, where there is no chance to go to a store to have a look at different options. The one store I know that carries any Lenser products only has three or four different ones, and I have not seen any where else here that has any other good brands, so internet shopping and forums like this are my only tools for making a decision.


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## mcnair55 (Nov 25, 2014)

Aldi have a light on offer this week c/w diffuser zoom feature and a 3 year warranty for £10,cracking deal just in time for xmas.


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## TEEJ (Nov 25, 2014)

NeilP said:


> I am trying got get a throw spot with virtually no spill, a nice sharp edge. I want it for lighten yup something through a perspex window, so something that give a sharp output is better. Over many years I have tried ,multiple lights and the best are always thin pencil beams, given gbetter penetration and less scatter back from the perspex windows in to the cockpit.
> 
> Also to then be able to use that light internally with a big flood at a few lumens for internal light of the instruments
> 
> ...



Well, Vinh has a zoomie that you might want to look at...in that he makes sure its reliable, and, pumps the performance up. Take a gander at his sub-forum for the zoomie. (18650 powered, etc)


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## NeilP (Nov 25, 2014)

TEEJ said:


> Well, Vinh has a zoomie that you might want to look at...in that he makes sure its reliable, and, pumps the performance up. Take a gander at his sub-forum for the zoomie. (18650 powered, etc)




thanks I'l take a look.
Looking at the EDC Rotary at the moment, with a SureFire Diffuser






mcnair55 said:


> Aldi have a light on offer this week c/w diffuser zoom feature and a 3 year warranty for £10,cracking deal just in time for xmas.



Thanks, If I get over to the UK with work this week, I 'll see if anyone know of a nearby store, as it is not a store we have here in Jersey, might look to see if they have a website, worth a look for £10. thanks


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## Fireclaw18 (Nov 25, 2014)

I love zoom flashlights. I probably own 20 of them. They are in many ways more useful than fixed focus lights and they're fun to mod.
*
Here's a bit of basic info on zoom lights*:

Most zoom flashlights have an aspheric lens, basically a magnifying glass, on a sliding bezel. 

*Flood position*: In flood position, the lens is retracted closer to the top of the LED. This produces a wide uniform circle of light without the hotspot typical of conventional reflector lights. There may also be one or more ugly rings outside the floodbeam caused by reflections off the sides of the bezel. These rings are ugly, and it is better not to have them. Many zoomies have no extra rings.
*
Spot position*: In spot mode, the lens is extended so that the focal point of the lens is aligned with the surface of the emitter. Properly focused this produces a clear image of the emitter die off into the distance. This dramatically increases throw (measured in lux), but the beam can look ugly as it looks square shaped and may display dots or lines (textures on the top of the emitter). There may also be rings outside the spot caused by reflections inside the bezel.

*Some other notes on aspheric zoomies*:
*1. Loss of lumens in spot mode.* LEDs emit light in a wide cone. In spot mode when the bezel is extended to put the emitter die on the focal point, part of the cone hits the sides of the bezel instead of the lens. This typically results in a dramatic reduction in lumens - sometimes 50% or more! A light that emits 500 lumens in flood mode might only emit 250 lumens in spot mode... even though throw is still higher in spot.
*2. Waterproofness *- most zoomies are not waterproof. Even if they have slots for o-rings to make them waterproof, almost always at least 1 o-ring will be omitted. This is intentional. When the zoom mechanism is cycled by moving the bezel the internal volume of the light changes. There needs to be an opening to allow air pressure to equalize with the outside environment. If the light is made completely air-tight, air pressure will cause the bezel to tend to return to whatever position it was in when the light was sealed, making the zoom useless. Some lights can get around this with a particularly stiff zoom mechanism, but in general don't expect a zoomie to be waterproof.
*3. Reflector* - aspheric zoomies don't have and don't need reflectors. The light is focused through the optic, not a reflector. A reflector added inside an aspheric light limits the width of the flood and produces an ugly ring in spot mode.
*4. Focal length* - Aspheric lenses come in different focal lengths. A long focal length aspheric requires the LED to be quite far from the lens in spot mode. The lens is thinner and the image of the emitter is smaller. An aspheric lens with a short focal length requires lesss bezel travel to focus, is thicker and heavier, and produces a wider (but not brighter) image of the emitter. Throw is the same, but the short focal length illuminates a wider area in spot mode. On the other hand, the long focal length lens can produce a slightly wider flood in flood mode.
*5. Lens diameter *- the wider the lens, the more intense the spot beam and the more throw you get (measured in lux). Downside is a wider lens is harder to carry around and put in your pocket. In general, aspheric zoomies will almost always outhrow similar size and power lights using conventional reflectors.
*6. Emitter choice* - This also applies to conventional reflector lights. Smaller emitters tend to have higher surface brightness so throw further. Larger emitters aren't as intense but make up for this with larger surface area. They don't throw as well, but produce a wider spot and a brighter flood.

*Some notes on modding zoomies*:
1. Dedoming an emitter nearly doubles the throw (lux), while slightly reducing the overall light output (lumens), and changes the tint (usually to something a lot uglier than stock).
2. The closer the back of the lens retracts to the top of the LED, the wider the flood mode. I've modded several zoomies to give beams in flood mode that are nearly 90 degrees wide... over twice the width of a typical unmodded zoomie. Wider is better when it comes to flood mode. Ideally the back of the lens should retract to within 1mm of the top of the emitter. If you dedome the emitter, you can get an even wider flood, because the lack of dome means you can retract the lens further.
3. If you emitter swap, it may be necessary to readjust the spot mode focus positioning. I recommend using strips of sheet aluminum bent into C-rings. Works great.

*LED Lenser optics*
LED Lenser uses a different and somewhat superior optical system for their zoomies. The LED Lenser optic consists of a 1-piece moulded plastic TIR (total internal reflection) reflector at the sides with a small aspheric in the center. There's also a large pocket just below the aspheric. The LED is mounted on a post that sits inside this pocket when the bezel is in both flood and spot modes In spot mode, light coming off the top of the LED hits the aspheric and focuses forward. Light coming off the sides hits the TIR and also focuses forward. Since in both flood and spot all the LED's light is hitting some part of the optic there's no loss of lumens when cycling from flood to spot.

The main disadvantage is these optics are expensive. Only LED Lenser, Coast and Pop Lite brand lights use them and all are expensive. They can also be hard to mod, because the LED isn't typically on a conventional 14 or 16mm star like in most flashlights. My LED Lensers also have fairly ringy beams (though my Coast does not... so the rings are due to LED Lenser's engineering choices rather than any inherent weakness in the optic.

___________________________________
*Advantages of zoomies compared to traditional reflector lights*:
1. Zoomies typically always throw further than a similar conventional reflector light using the same emitter at the same power.
2. There's no spill in spot mode. This is handy if you're trying to view something in the far distance. Your night vision won't be washed by spill illuminating stuff in the foreground like it would be with a conventional light.
3. The lack of spill is also handy if you're trying to light something up without disturbing your neighbors.
4. Wide, completely even flood beam
5. Customizable beam
6. Spot mode is often tight enough to be used as a pointer or cat toy.

*Disadvantages*:
1. Quality tends to be cheaper. Almost all zoomies are budget quality. Even premium zoomies tend to be limited in their features.
2. Usually not waterproof due to need to equalize air pressure when cycling zoom.
3. You basically have "spot" or "spill"... but unlike a conventional reflector, you usually can't get both at the same time.
4. Loss of lumens in spot mode with most zoomies.
5. Poorly built zoomies may produce ugly, ringy beams.
6. Without the hotspot the overall flood beam may not look as bright or impressive.
7. Poorly designed zoomies may not allow the lens to retract far enough resulting in a very narrow flood beam of limited usefulness


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## NeilP (Nov 25, 2014)

Nice, thanks..so there is two of us then!!

Considering most of these LEDs are so bright now, i don't see the loss of a bit of light an issue for what I want it for. 

I'll try those other brands you mention.

Any experience with the lights i mention in the first post from Myled.com?


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## Fireclaw18 (Nov 25, 2014)

*My favorite zoomies *(all modded of course):

*1. 18650 powered Aleto N8.* At 108mm long, this is THE smallest 18650 zoomie on the market. I modded mine and cut the length down to 91mm by adding a fresnel lens and side electronic switch (for more info do a Google search for "Modding the Aleto N8"). With a 20mm aspheric installed its slightly larger at 95mm. It produces an extremely wide 90 degree flood beam ... wider than the spillbeam from all my reflector lights except my MTG2. And in spot beam it throws 31k lux. Not bad for a light the size of a Zebralight SC62. Emitter is a dedomed XML2 powered by a Nanjg015C with FET driver and DrJones lumodrv firmware.

*2. Coast HP1.* I shrank mine down with an alternate bezel and tailcap. And I replaced the driver, emitter and switch. Flood mode is 90 degrees wide and perfectly uniform with no rings. Spot mode is unusual: This light uses LED Lenser style optics, but Coast chose not to place the focal point of the aspheric at the same point as the focal point of the TIR. Result is spot mode actually resembles the beam profile of a typical reflector light incorporating both spot and spill. Doesn't throw nearly as well as a typical zoomie, but has a pleasing beam profile in both modes with no loss of lumens.

*3. Rustu XL-03* from DealExtreme (or the many look-alikes). Smallest AA/14500 zoom light on the market. Modded with new emitter, driver and switch, and bezel adjusted for wider zoom. Tiny and very bright with 17k LUX in spot mode. This is the AA sized version of the light mentioned in "1." above.


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## degarb (Nov 25, 2014)

Agreed: "1. Loss of lumens in spot mode. LEDs emit light in a wide cone. In spot mode when the bezel is extended to put the emitter die on the focal point, part of the cone hits the sides of the bezel instead of the lens. This typically results in a dramatic reduction in lumens - sometimes 50% or more! A light that emits 500 lumens in flood mode might only emit 250 lumens in spot mode... even though throw is still higher in spot."

But they can concentrate beam in a smaller package. I personally, prefer the larger head, and will for evermore never buy one.


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## NeilP (Nov 25, 2014)

Thanks

Just tried an e-bay search for the N8, nothing except car and fishing kit with that name any more. But don't really want to go down the mod route. Not that I can't, I am sure I could, it just then becomes another hobby/ pastime etc that I don't need. I only just finished a job of replacing an exhaust manifold on a farm tractor...I bought the parts 18 years ago.


I signed up to this forum over a year ago, and then never posted, it all just became another 'project' instead of just buying a lamp. I can see it is slowly going that way again. At least two days in front of the computer, reading and posting and sending e-mails and still no nearer to buying a lamp.

It seems strange that all the budget suppliers make zoom lamps but none of the 'high end' suppliers.

I am beginning to think I'd be better to buy 10 or 15 different cheap budget zoom lamps rather than one single 'quality; one like the the HDS Systems EDC Rotary plus a diffuser. fancy sapphire glass etc. Price with the bits I wanted comes to over $600 USD, plus international shipping.

I have been on the search for a good lamp that is what I want for, well , 10 years, maybe more. OK< so not exactly searching, but never happy with the flash lamps i have and always on the lookout for a better one. Rarely buying because they are never what I want. And the times I did buy, I was proved right in that they were not what I wanted.


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## Fireclaw18 (Nov 25, 2014)

NeilP said:


> Thanks
> 
> Just tried an e-bay search for the N8, nothing except car and fishing kit with that name any more...



The only source I found for the 18650 Aleto N8 I modded is Ebay. It's there, but it won't come up with a search for "Aleto N8". Instead do a search for "zoom 18650 flashlight". Be warned you may have to scroll through 10 or 15 pages of flashlights before you find the listing though.


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## NeilP (Nov 25, 2014)

Thanks I found a few using Google Advance search, but there is so many it is just depressing .

It is now 9pm here, and i have been searching and reading since this morning, either on the phone or the PC, had enough for the day. Tempted to just go on a buying spree tomorrow, just buy 10 or so different cheap lamps and test them all out.


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## Richwouldnt (Dec 4, 2014)

Probably not what you want but I love my Fenix TK76. The 120 degree flood is wider than any zoom light I know of but the throw beam may not be concentrated enough for you. Also large and a bit pricey. With it's separate control buttons for each of the three LEDs though it is a versatile monster if size is not a consideration.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?377164-Fenix-TK76-Review


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## NeilP (Dec 4, 2014)

Oh I do want one !! but not for the purpose this thread was about!

Looks stunning


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## bright star (Dec 7, 2014)

Think I'll look into this light for some gifts to some non flashaholic.


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## NeilP (Dec 7, 2014)

Looks like i missed some of the posts earlier. In airport at moment, so will read fully when I get home.

But I have ordered some cheap zooms from myled.com will review them when they arrive.


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## NeilP (Dec 8, 2014)

Fireclaw18 said:


> *My favorite zoomies *(all modded of course):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just ordered a Coast HP1 for $9.99 from Amazon.

So, I'd be interested to know what driver, emmitter and switch you used on your mods

Thanks


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## jbrett14 (Dec 11, 2014)

NeilP said:


> It seems strange that all the budget suppliers make zoom lamps but none of the 'high end' suppliers.



I know of at least one that does. Take a look at Tovatec. They make a zoom light, and, being a dive light, they are submersible as well.

I bought one for using underwater with my GoPro. It's a very good quality light. It only puts out about 300 lumens though. They are working on a newer model that will be closer to 900 lumens and will use an 18650 battery.

In my opinion, the quality of this light is every bit as good as the more popular brands like Fenix, JetBeam, Streamlight, ZebraLight, etc.


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## NeilP (Dec 11, 2014)

Thank you for theta tip off, much appreciated.


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## Fireclaw18 (Dec 11, 2014)

NeilP said:


> Just ordered a Coast HP1 for $9.99 from Amazon.
> 
> So, I'd be interested to know what driver, emmitter and switch you used on your mods
> 
> Thanks



My Coast HP1 currently has the following mods:

1. Bezel replaced with one from a budget light from DX. The new bezel is much narrower and has parallel rings on it, increasing grip and making it much easier to cycle the zoom than the smooth bezel or the stock HP1.

2. Replaced stock XPE with a dedomed XPL cool-white, reflowed onto the stock copper star.

3. Driver is a 3-mode Nanjg105c with custom modes and off-time memory (moonlight - 25% - 100% with 1-minute turbo timeout). I filed down the edges of the driver to fit. Note: this is somewhat difficult to do as too much filing will kill the driver.


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## NeilP (Dec 12, 2014)

Thanks

Was the bezel replacement just a lucky straight swap? Or was there metal work involved to make it fit?

Not read up on how de doming is achieved yet, but the tops do seem soft, and hard jelly like. Guessing a sharp scalpel and one clean accurate cut?

May order a few LED's too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


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## Chicken Drumstick (Dec 12, 2014)

TEEJ said:


> The reasons are that a zoom flashlight is typically bought to only need one flashlight for long and close distances...by giving it a floody beam close up and a tight beam far away.
> 
> The problem is not the lumens per se, its the beam patterns. IE: You get a worse floody beam, and a worse throwy beam, while sort of getting both functions.
> 
> ...


Sorry Teej I don't really agree with you. If you want flood, then using an optic will generally give you far superior flood ability and more even lighting. So if you want to use it as a work light, indoors, or even for photography (macro especially), then they work very very well. And also depending on the emitters used, they can throw well for their physical size.

This is a POP lite, it's very similar to a Led Lenser and uses a TIR optic (I think they are made in the same factory). It run's on 3xAAA with an XP-E and claims only 220 lumens.

Flood mode it brilliant:




And zoomed it manages to put quite a bit of light on target too:




As a comparison this is a Solarforce L2M with an Ultrafire XM-L p60 that pulls approx 2.98amps with a SMO reflector. Physically the L2M is very similar to the Pop lite, but obvious the p60 is making way more lumens 600+









The POP lite out floods and out throws the p60, although obviously not both at the same time.


As you can see, physically they are similar sized. I have no doubt a torch with a larger reflector and physically bigger would out throw the POP lite, but it simply wouldn't offer the same even flood ability.


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## NeilP (Dec 12, 2014)

I can't search now, but time for a quick post.

Do you know of a POP LITE that has zoom like you show and also moonlight/ med/ high? or even a moonlight and memory mode ?




Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


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## Chicken Drumstick (Dec 12, 2014)

Sadly not.

The only POP lite I know of are the T33 which I have, it's actually the one I like the most. But it's single mode (which is the reason I like it).

The T34 is the next model up and is essentially the same light, but with a fatter body and uses 4xAAA, although it had s High and Low output and a turbo mode via the momentary. It is very similar to a Led Lenser P7 (the P7 used an XR-E with 180 lumens, the T34 XP-E with 220 lumens).

But for very similar money you can get the P7.2 (a Led Lenser) from FastTech (use Google to find them and search for p7.2). This has the same UI as the T34 but with higher output using an XP-G2.

There is a POP lite T62 that DX.com sell. It's an older model and uses an XR-E but is 18650 powered and uses a normal style driver (Led Lensers use some chips on a mechanical switch). It has 3 output modes and strobe. Although the flood mode isn't as good or as wide as the T33/34. If you are into modding the T62 could probably be made into something very impressive with a little thought.

But sadly no, I don't know of any zoomies with a good moonlight mode. I guess part of the reason is, in full flood mode they don't glare at you, so you don't need such a low to make them useful close up. Of course this isn't helpful for runtimes or preserving night vision.

However if you fancy a little project there is a brilliant budget zoomy from a company called Dealmetic.com (find them via Google). The sell a budget light called the Zeusray (Product code: FL05518). It's really cheap, but quite good quality for the money (I have 2 of them). It doesn't use a TIR, just an aspheric lens, but the flood on them is superb. Throw not so good as they are XM-L2's and the larger LEDs don't throw like the smaller ones, although if you de-dome it (really easy) it'll massively increase throw.

The Zeusray doesn't have a moonlight mode, but it does use a 17mm driver, so you could easily swap in a Qlite Rev.A 3.04 driver and have it set to the 4 mode option with moonlight.

Total cost would be well under $15 and less than 30mins effort. In return you'd get a very nice light that does what you actually want.


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## NeilP (Dec 12, 2014)

Thanks I'll try those too. I have two others on order. Cant see the difference between them , one shows 80m and the other 200m so guessing different optics, or just marketing hype!

In the last two week is have bought an M3R, Q2 and Fenix E35 Ultimate, plus the two above and a Coast HP1.

I'll certainly look up those you mention.

I won't go in to details why I have want what I want, (done that too many times here on this forum in my multitude of recent threads) I have been vaguely searching for my Ultimate work flashlight for many years (15 at least) ..I am on a mission now I have found this forum to get what I want in one package . 

Thanks for the input.


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## bykfixer (Aug 21, 2015)

^^ my coast HP7 rechargeable.
About 300' in the rain.




^^ that's a 24' pontoon boat about 1000' away.


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## Phlogiston (Sep 27, 2015)

NeilP said:


> I have been looking at budget lights for a zoomable handheld flashlight as it seems that none of the quality manufacturers seem to make one.



Not a budget light, but I thought I'd mention this: Fenix have just announced their new FD40 focusing light. No one's had it in their hands yet, but you can find their announcement thread here on CPF. 

One thing that caught my eye is the rating to be waterproof at 2m for 30 minutes; as other posters have said here, that's unusual in this class of light.


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## Fireclaw18 (Sep 29, 2015)

Phlogiston said:


> Not a budget light, but I thought I'd mention this: Fenix have just announced their new FD40 focusing light. No one's had it in their hands yet, but you can find their announcement thread here on CPF.
> 
> One thing that caught my eye is the rating to be waterproof at 2m for 30 minutes; as other posters have said here, that's unusual in this class of light.



Yes. 

Waterproofing can be done in a zoom light, but it is rare. Typically you'll need a bezel that unscrews for zoom rather than a simpler push-pill.

Personally, I prefer the push-pull as it is much easier to cycle one-handed. I can do without the waterproofing. My current best zoomie is another Aleto N8 I modded (I now have 2). The new one is 94mm x 25mm and uses a 20mm aspheric lens. Peak throw on a fresh cell is 44k lux. Flood beam pushes out around 1500 lumens in a wide, completely even 85 degree cone. Due to heat, it can't run long at full power, but it's a nice pocket-rocket small enough for EDC.

I hope Fenix adds other lights to their FD series. Their new zoomie is a bit too large for me, but I'd definitely be interested if they added a smaller zoomie.


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## LightObsession (Feb 4, 2016)

Any options for a 1 AAA zoomie other than the Coast HP2? A two power option is especially appealing.

Have any of you tried the HP2?


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## wensynch (Feb 11, 2016)

The Vizeri zoom able is IPX8 rated water resistant. This kufht gets some good feedback.


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