# Malkoff Want To Sells- too many on the Forum?



## wweiss (Jan 7, 2020)

Is it my imagination, or have there been a recent, large increase of used Malkoff sales on CPF? Seems so. Like a sell-off in the stock market, I wonder what this will do to the Malkoff market and sales of new units?


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## bykfixer (Jan 8, 2020)

I see folks thinning their collections knowing Malkoff products will go quickly. 
I see others doing same with their HDS lights, still others SureFire or Elzetta.


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## peter yetman (Jan 8, 2020)

That's the thing, actually.
It's so easy to sell a pre owned Malkoff, that I'm sure a lot of people buy a couple of different ones knowing that they can get thier money back quickly on the one they like least.
i've done that a few times with HDSs, it doesn't mean that I don't like them, quite the reverse as it happens.
P


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## bigburly912 (Jan 8, 2020)

One guy actually just bought a bunch to test so the large sell that went down was just thinning out the herd. : )


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## wweiss (Jan 8, 2020)

I’m with you both - I have Malkoff’s that have duplicates, but I’m conflicted as to selling them. I just worry about Gene and what herd thinning does to his business.


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## wweiss (Jan 8, 2020)

So hard to part with either an HDS or any Malkoff. They are perfect in their own use format. I do understand InFRL’s wish to thin as he has done a huge service to this Forum and is, as he says, out of room.


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## archimedes (Jan 8, 2020)

Depends on if you consider Malkoffs to be tools, or to be collectibles, since these types of markets act differently. Supply and demand effects, of course, are the main driver of pricing.

However, it is important to realize that new items and used items are not identical (even if functionally that may seem so), and not all buyers are interested in both. Some buy new items only, some buy used items only, some buy either or both.

I think that most makers of durable high-end hobbyist gear would prefer, in general, to see a strong secondary market for their products.

Although I have no idea, my guess is that CPF members comprise a relatively small (yet significant) portion of total sales. Even "dozens" of CPF Malkoff sales threads would very likely have microscopic impact on his overall bottom line, I would think.


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## Dave Huck (Jan 8, 2020)

I recently looked at a few sales threads and wondered why somebody would be selling multiple examples of a given light/body/head.

Then I thought about the learning curve I went through a few years ago (and did pretty much the same thing as those guys, buying multiple versions of various lights to play with).

I think I've just gotten older/wiser (!)/more miserly in my advancing years.... Buying another house in a new country (with a bad rep for power cuts) has reignited my interest/OCD.... Plus I now have a huge yard to light up 😃.

So suddenly I'm looking at the classifieds rather than buying a ton of toys. Old age is a terrible thing! 😄


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## wweiss (Jan 8, 2020)

@archimedes - you have an interesting point there. I did not think a strong secondary market would be something welcome by a maker. Especially in the somewhat esoteric realm of high-end well-made flashlights.

I do see your point, however.


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## nbp (Jan 8, 2020)

wweiss said:


> I’m with you both - I have Malkoff’s that have duplicates, but I’m conflicted as to selling them. I just worry about Gene and what herd thinning does to his business.



Unless the light gets destroyed and needs replacing, any sale from a maker could potentially be the last for that customer, whether you keep the light and stop buying more or you sell it that guy and he doesn’t buy any more. If you want to keep new sales strong you have to buy items and wear them out or keep finding Gene new customers. Most people don’t have multiples of something like a specialized flashlight. While you have the item you aren’t buying more, and when that guy buys it he stops buying more. But maybe you buy a different one to replace it, which is the same as if that guy bought new not used. I see it as a lateral move. The only way it hurts is if the market is so flooded with used items no one is buying the new ones. In this consumerist society that rarely seems to happen.


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## bykfixer (Jan 8, 2020)

Gene sells a whole lot of product outside CPF. A lot of first responders and that sort carry Malkoff's gear. A few here and there in our WTS section probably puts them in the hands of folks reluctant to pull the trigger on full priced new stuff, which may end up with them adding additional product direct from Gene. 

Hell, I never considered paying new price for an MDC with a VME and stainless bezel but by acquiring one second hand allowed me to see what all the fuss was about. In my case it did not lead to more purchased because I already had every light and emitter I wanted. But I'm still squashing the voices about a Bodyguard.


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## archimedes (Jan 8, 2020)

Plus, with tech (notably including LEDs) there is the automatic obsolescence factor.

As emitters progressively increase in efficiency, color rendering, etc, etc ... someone will want the latest and greatest.

If they can easily get most of their money out of a prior item, they may be that much more likely to buy new at full price, and moving more product downstream.


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## ironhorse (Jan 8, 2020)

Some people buy second hand first, to find out if they like the product, then end up buying new if they like it.


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## bigburly912 (Jan 8, 2020)

You echoed! I bought my first malkoff second hand then purchased three or 4 or 20 different products from gene directly. Haha


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## Tachead (Jan 22, 2020)

I bought my first Malkoff second had as well. But, that lead me to send quite a few bills Mr. Malkoff's way... 

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


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## Kestrel (Jan 22, 2020)

Malkoffs are just so easy to sell; you can be confident of the vibrant secondary market - it's an easy way to raise $$ for the next (Malkoff?) purchase.


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## scout24 (Jan 23, 2020)

Slightly off topic, but I looked up my purchase history on the Malkoff website the other day while placing yet another order... Yikes!


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## LRJ88 (Jan 23, 2020)

As someone not from the US the secondary market is the best way to get one without paying almost as much for shipping and customs than the flashlight itself. 

As an example, getting an MD2 with a high/low switch is $137, plus $55 shipping, plus $20-40 in customs and taxes on that, at most it lands at $227 for a flashlight while in the secondary market you can find people who can send it cheaper at a lower initial cost. Having a distributor of sorts in Europe could benefit Gene a bit and spread knowledge about the flashlights here as well.


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## flatline (Jan 23, 2020)

scout24 said:


> Slightly off topic, but I looked up my purchase history on the Malkoff website the other day while placing yet another order... Yikes!



That way lies madness...

--flatline


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## Kestrel (Jan 23, 2020)

LRJ88 said:


> As someone not from the US the secondary market is the best way to get one without paying almost as much for shipping and customs than the flashlight itself.
> 
> As an example, getting an MD2 with a high/low switch is $137, plus $55 shipping, plus $20-40 in customs and taxes on that, at most it lands at $227 for a flashlight while in the secondary market you can find people who can send it cheaper at a lower initial cost. Having a distributor of sorts in Europe could benefit Gene a bit and spread knowledge about the flashlights here as well.


From what I understand, international pkg insurance /and/ the related requisite shipping upgrade method, seems to be the dealbreaker as far as the cost that domestic businesses have to recoup on a sale ?

I have sold & shipped the occasional used flashlight part (including Malkoff dropins) to Europe etc, and the shipping is quite inexpensive - _*if*_ it is shipped 'cheapest method' without insurance. Both buyer and seller are usually comfortable with the arrangement, as this is a pretty good community here. However, I'd expect that many of our businesses would be uncomfortable with the ad-hoc arrangements that our buyers & sellers do.


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## LRJ88 (Jan 23, 2020)

Kestrel said:


> From what I understand, international pkg insurance /and/ the related requisite shipping upgrade method, seems to be the dealbreaker as far as the cost that domestic businesses have to recoup on a sale ?
> 
> I have sold & shipped the occasional used flashlight part (including Malkoff dropins) to Europe etc, and the shipping is quite inexpensive - _*if*_ it is shipped 'cheapest method' without insurance. Both buyer and seller are usually comfortable with the arrangement, as this is a pretty good community here. However, I'd expect that many of our businesses would be uncomfortable with the ad-hoc arrangements that our buyers & sellers do.



It's pretty much that, and a lot of the time if you see something here it's higher than the MSRP price by 10-20% as well so many times it's cheaper to just buy it at the actual sale price abroad and cough up the customs and tax fees but saving on the shipping.

Even with some tracked shipping it can be less expensive than the option Malkoff uses, but i can well understand the decision too with so many people being a bit iffy and trying to cheat by saying they haven't received the product. I've had the poor luck of dealing with the Swedish postal system, they've often delivered my mail to another person in the village and there's been cases where i've gotten letters a month later and them looking like they've taken a long trip on the floor of a sorting centre.


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## bykfixer (Jan 23, 2020)

The method Gene uses to ship is nearly $40 with $50 insurance. So for a drop in that's enough. But add more insurance and the cost goes up. Like Kestrel said, the second hand market here is usually folks who trust each other due to reputation of honest sellers, so we use less cost ways to mail items over seas.


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## wweiss (Jan 23, 2020)

These are all wise points I didn’t think of when I asked the question. Makes a lot of sense and answers my initial question well.


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## peter yetman (Jan 24, 2020)

Buying on the WTS is the only way I've been able to amass the twenty or so lights that I have.
As others have said, adding the Carriage and Import Duty (this varies according to value) makes buying new a very expensive option.
I've had nothinng but good experiences buying from the people kind enough to send used lights over the Pond.
P


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## wweiss (Jan 24, 2020)

I was always wondering how a lot of folks had so much more disposable income than me to afford many high quality lights from the top makers. The answer makes me a little feel better now.


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## nbp (Jan 24, 2020)

Instead of buying $6 Starbucks coffees or going out to lunch everyday, I pack a lunch and buy flashlights. Haha


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## wweiss (Jan 24, 2020)

nbp: Hmmmmm... by my accounting, you save $500/week - now I get it.


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## nbp (Jan 24, 2020)

Lol, well maybe not THAT much but it does add up. People spend money on what they like, whether it be food, drinks, clothes, vacations, golf clubs, sports memorabilia, flashlights etc...


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## LRJ88 (Jan 26, 2020)

nbp said:


> Lol, well maybe not THAT much but it does add up. People spend money on what they like, whether it be food, drinks, clothes, vacations, golf clubs, sports memorabilia, flashlights etc...



And at the end of the day if you spend $90 on something that you at any point can get $90 back for and that will last you 30+ years, it isn't exactly a big sum to pay compared to paying $20 over and over again for something like a regular (name your store) brand that gets sold under the premise of 50,000 lumen and an average life span of a month if you actually use it.


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