# 3D Mag - Worth Modifying?



## Thundar (May 23, 2009)

I am an LEO and work the night shift. I recently modified my SF M3 with a Cree R2 and have been pretty happy with it. As that light combo has a pretty tight beam now, I would like to mod one of my other lights to have a lot more power and be more of a flood light. I have a few lights that I can mod. 

Maglite 3D
Streamlight SL20X
Streamlight Stinger XT/HP
Streamlight Stinger HP

If Terralux came out with a version of the TLE-300 for the SL20X, I would get one in a heartbeat. My buddy put the TLE-300MR into his Magcharger and it is BRIGHT! It seems from other posts that this LED won't fit or work in the Streamlight head, however, so this option is probably out. 

The LED options for the HP's and SL20X don't overly impress me so I feel I am left with the 3D option. From reading other posts I am confused whether 3 alkaline D cells will be enough to run this LED. Are 3 D cells enough? If not, is there another battery type that will increase the voltage without resorting to putting in new spacers, battery sleeves or other technical hardware?


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## Thundar (May 23, 2009)

... if 3 D cells are enough to run the light with the TLE-300 LED, what will be the runtime and how fast with the lumen output drop?


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## Barbarin (May 23, 2009)

> Re: 3D Mag - Worth Modifying?


 
In fact some may say that it MUST be moddified.

I think it is one of the best, if not the best one to be worked. You can find here on CPF probably near 1000 mods performed on Mag hosts, some of them amazing.

The quality of the alloy, machining and anodizing is great. The switch is very reliable... what else can i say about this light? If I had time enough I would modify it with a regular dicroic MR16 35 Watt 10º, overdriven by 3x18650 (I'm not sure if they will fit if you remove the tail spring).

But if you use the search function of the forum you will find many options, from simple to really advanced skills.

Javier


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## tx101 (May 23, 2009)

If you want to stick with alkaline D cells, I would recommend the Malkoff
dropin.
Malkoff dropins, whether for Surefire or Maglite are the best you can buy

For your Mag 3D, the Malkoff will give you 240 lumens for 6 hours

You can find Malkoff here


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## Gunner12 (May 23, 2009)

I'd suggest checking out this thread.


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## Justin Case (May 23, 2009)

Thundar said:


> I am an LEO and work the night shift. I recently modified my SF M3 with a Cree R2 and have been pretty happy with it. As that light combo has a pretty tight beam now, I would like to mod one of my other lights to have a lot more power and be more of a flood light. I have a few lights that I can mod.
> 
> Maglite 3D
> Streamlight SL20X
> ...


 

If you want to run with 3xD alkalines, then I suggest underdriving a Seoul P7 at 250mA per core using a GD1000 boost-buck driver or at 300mA per core with a GD1200 (actually a GD1227). You'll get over 300 emitter lumens with relatively low power draw and long run time. I measured a Vf of 3.07V driving a P7 DSW0I-bin at 250mA per core.

If you are willing to go for Accupower low self-discharge D NiMH cells, then I would suggest direct drive with a TaskLED d2Flex PWM controller for multimodes and longer run time by choosing a lower power mode for general use, with the availability of a max mode when you need a lot of lumens. Here, I would use a DxxxJ-bin P7.

I would try the stock Mag reflector first to see if it gives a sufficient beam for you. If not, then get a KD 15mm opening orange peel reflector. Regardless, I would get a toughened Borofloat lens from flashlightlens.com.


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## Thundar (May 23, 2009)

I would really like to have a light with a similar lumen output to my buddy's TLE-300MR. It seems that the Malkoff Drop-In Module would be a lot less.

Can the TLE-300M run on 3D alkalines?


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## wildstar87 (May 23, 2009)

I modded a 3D for a friend, with P7 on DHS P7 heatsink, with 2 - 1400ma AMC7135 drivers.

It runs on alkalines just fine, it's even a bit brighter than the TLE-300 4D he has running on alkalines. Basically same or a bit brighter hotspot with spill.

A mod like that probably around $60


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## Justin Case (May 23, 2009)

I don't own a TLE-300M so can't say what happens on 3xD alkalines. Folks on CPF claim that the TLE-300M needs 4V min, and 3xD alkaline cells seem borderline for that. Now you could get three of those FiveMega or mdocod 3xAA->D adapters. Using AA Eneloops, for example, would give you nominally 9x1.2V=10.8V. Fresh off the charger, you could start out at 9x1.45V~13V. The specs claim up to 12V input, so I can't advise you whether the TLE-300M will like a brief exposure to 13V or not. But this seems to be a relatively costly route, after adding in the extra expense for the battery adapters and the Eneloops. I think at that point, I'd probably consider the new Olight M30 or Eagletac M2.

You can also try fitting 3x18650 by mod'ing the tailcap spring. That might make the Terralux price competitive again, since you don't have to spend money on AA->adapters. But you start to bump into the 12V max voltage issue again.

The SSC P4 based Malkoff 2D/3D drop-in looks cost-effective and will work with 3xD alkalines. An SSC P4 using the stock Mag smooth reflector will be a very good thrower, and also give you a wide beam with reasonable spill brightness. I wouldn't sell the Malkoff short just because it is using a P4 rated at around 240 lumens, vs the Terralux's claimed 600 lumens. I would bet that the 600 lumens is bulb lumens, which already narrows the lumens gap significantly when you convert to out the front lumens. Also, CPF reviews seem to say that the TLE-300M quickly drops down to 500 lumens, which I assume is also an emitter lumen spec. Subtract the usual 20% or so, and you might have 400 lumens out the front. Certainly nothing to sneeze at, but it's not 600 lumens either.

If you want a lot of light, a direct drive, single mode mod using a P7 DxxxJ-bin will also do it for you. It'll cost you about $30 for the LED. A heat sink could be $15 or so. Battery Specialists has a 2-pack of Accupower LSD D-cell NiMH for $25 shipped, and you'll need two packs. If you have a AA NiMH charger, you can use that to charge the D cells. Go to Radio Shack, get some of their D cell battery holders for about $2 each, and cut a dowel rod to the length of a AA to hold the battery holder wires against the charger terminals. Total cost is around $95, plus your time to assemble the mod (and assuming you already have things like wire, solder, soldering iron, thermal epoxy, AA NiMH charger, etc). I would also get a glass lens. The optimum would be a UCL or Borofloat from flashlightlens.com for about $6.50 plus shipping. The low cost approach would be a 5-pack of glass lenses from KD for about $3.

A 3D DD P7 Mag mod will also run on AA Eneloops (shorter run time) and alkalines (shorter run time and less lumens since the alkalines just won't be able to deliver the amps). If you went with alkalines, then the DD mod cost could be as low as ~$50, again assuming you don't have to buy things like Arctic Alumina thermal epoxy and other related supplies.


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## SR.GRINGO (May 23, 2009)

If you were up for buying a decent charger you could build a 5761. You can fit 4 of AW's IMR26500 in a 3d. Buy one of the new regulated drivers on cpf's BST. You will get a solid light with a big run time.


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## Illum (May 23, 2009)

5761, WA1185, WA1164....I think theres a couple threads on hotwires already


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## LukeA (May 23, 2009)

Direct-driving a P7 off of alkalines will get you what you need.

No glass lens will be nearly as tough as the stock polycarbonate lens you have in the 3D now.


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## Benson (May 23, 2009)

Barbarin said:


> If I had time enough I would modify it with a regular dicroic MR16 35 Watt 10º, overdriven by 3x18650 (I'm not sure if they will fit if you remove the tail spring).


3x18650 will fit, but so will 3x26700 Emoli, for more runtime. And they'd obviously handle more wattage, if you wanted to go that way.


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## Thundar (May 24, 2009)

I was considering the MCE-Drop-In-II, but the website doesn't list the price. Does anyone know if Elektro Lumens still sells this and how much it costs?


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## Trashman (May 24, 2009)

Thundar said:


> I was considering the MCE-Drop-In-II, but the website doesn't list the price. Does anyone know if Elektro Lumens still sells this and how much it costs?



Is the Drop-In-II the one with 2 Cree MC-Es in there? I've got one of those and it's very floody and quite bright, but I don't see it on his website. I think, he's got one with 3 Cree MC-Es, also, which I don't see on there, either. However, I do see a 3D Maglite Drop-In with 3 SSC P7's, which should be pretty insane, especially if it's coming from Elektrolumens, and it's priced at $139.99. Here's the link: http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi


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## Thundar (May 24, 2009)

Trashman said:


> Is the Drop-In-II the one with 2 Cree MC-Es in there? I've got one of those and it's very floody and quite bright, but I don't see it on his website. I think, he's got one with 3 Cree MC-Es, also, which I don't see on there, either. However, I do see a 3D Maglite Drop-In with 3 SSC P7's, which should be pretty insane, especially if it's coming from Elektrolumens, and it's priced at $139.99. Here's the link: http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi


 
Yes, that's the one. I got to it from the Maglite LED and incan mods and drop-ins, Overview thread. I can't get to it from there Elektro Lumens homepage, however, so I'm thinking it might be discontinued. I saw the Drop in with the 3 P7's and it looks amazing, but it's way out of my price range.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/193434


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## Thundar (May 24, 2009)

wildstar87 said:


> I modded a 3D for a friend, with P7 on DHS P7 heatsink, with 2 - 1400ma AMC7135 drivers.
> 
> It runs on alkalines just fine, it's even a bit brighter than the TLE-300 4D he has running on alkalines. Basically same or a bit brighter hotspot with spill.
> 
> A mod like that probably around $60


 
OK, I'm a newbie, so where would I find those parts and is it a difficult mod?


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## Thundar (May 24, 2009)

Is there a quick and easy reason why any of these companies do not have similar mods for the SL20X?


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## Al Combs (May 24, 2009)

The regular MagLite takes a different TerraLUX module than the MagCharger. BatteryJunction has a TLE-300 kit for the regular 3D that includes the battery and charger. Alkaline batteries in a 3D won't give you full power from that module. They also sell a spare battery pack for 25 bucks. It's always nice to have a spare pack already charged. They are 3,500 mAh NiMH 1/2 D's, so it has more capacity than the MagCharger NiCad pack.

Here are two excellent posts on P7 MagLite mods (1 and 2) to give you an idea what that involves. I did a P7 mod to a 3D MagLite and it's not difficult. Lots of sources in the MarketPlace for LED's and heat sinks. I've never seen anyone directly compare the TLE-300 to the P7. The D binned P7's have 800-900 lumens. So they're brighter than the 500-600 lumen output of the TLE-300. Brighter hot spot with more spill would be my guess. Of course with a camless stock reflector you do get the donut. An MOP (medium orange peel) reflector can fix that but will kill the throw of the light.

TerraLUX makes the StreamStar20X. It only puts out 200 lumens so it's only 1/3rd as bright as the TLE-300M. I guess the only real advantage to these is theoretically they never burn out. That may be the answer to your question why on Streamlight. MagLites don't start out life very bright. But they have lots of room for modding.:devil:


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## Justin Case (May 24, 2009)

Al Combs said:


> Here are two excellent posts on P7 MagLite mods (1 and 2) to give you an idea what that involves. I did a P7 mod to a 3D MagLite and it's not difficult. Lots of sources in the MarketPlace for LED's and heat sinks. I've never seen anyone directly compare the TLE-300 to the P7. The D binned P7's have 800-900 lumens. So they're brighter than the 500-600 lumen output of the TLE-300. Brighter hot spot with more spill would be my guess. Of course with a camless stock reflector you do get the donut. An MOP (medium orange peel) reflector can fix that but will kill the throw of the light.



When I rotate the Mag head containing the stock smooth Mag reflector to optimum focus, I can get a donut-free beam for a P7. The beam isn't perfect, but there are no gross dark rings, weirdly-shaped hot spot, etc. Against real-world backgrounds, I don't notice any of the minor beam defects. They are visible only on a white wall.


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## Barbarin (May 24, 2009)

Benson said:


> 3x18650 will fit, but so will 3x26700 Emoli, for more runtime. And they'd obviously handle more wattage, if you wanted to go that way.


 

Thank you. That is a good advice. I have been overdriving a 20% 50 Watt MR16 10º Halospot PHILIPS with good results. They are waaaaaaaaaaaay brighter than a 18 Watt HID.


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## Thundar (May 25, 2009)

Al Combs said:


> The regular MagLite takes a different TerraLUX module than the MagCharger. BatteryJunction has a TLE-300 kit for the regular 3D that includes the battery and charger. Alkaline batteries in a 3D won't give you full power from that module. They also sell a spare battery pack for 25 bucks. It's always nice to have a spare pack already charged. They are 3,500 mAh NiMH 1/2 D's, so it has more capacity than the MagCharger NiCad pack.
> 
> Here are two excellent posts on P7 MagLite mods (1 and 2) to give you an idea what that involves. I did a P7 mod to a 3D MagLite and it's not difficult. Lots of sources in the MarketPlace for LED's and heat sinks. I've never seen anyone directly compare the TLE-300 to the P7. The D binned P7's have 800-900 lumens. So they're brighter than the 500-600 lumen output of the TLE-300. Brighter hot spot with more spill would be my guess. Of course with a camless stock reflector you do get the donut. An MOP (medium orange peel) reflector can fix that but will kill the throw of the light.
> 
> TerraLUX makes the StreamStar20X. It only puts out 200 lumens so it's only 1/3rd as bright as the TLE-300M. I guess the only real advantage to these is theoretically they never burn out. That may be the answer to your question why on Streamlight. MagLites don't start out life very bright. But they have lots of room for modding.:devil:


 
Unfortunately, I am not mechanically savvy enough to perform either of the two listed mods (soldering, rosin flux, etc.) Are there any quality drop-ins that don't cost hundreds of dollars that use this or a similar output LED?

... if not for the Mag, how about for the SL20X?


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## Trashman (May 26, 2009)

I'd spend the money. If it's something you'll be using, it will be money well spent. It may save you from spending a lot more money in the future, too, because it'll prevent you from buying a bunch of lesser lights that will eventually total more than the cost of the drop-in, but never come close to bringing the satisfaction that the drop-in will provide.


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## Thundar (May 26, 2009)

Trashman said:


> I'd spend the money. If it's something you'll be using, it will be money well spent. It may save you from spending a lot more money in the future, too, because it'll prevent you from buying a bunch of lesser lights that will eventually total more than the cost of the drop-in, but never come close to bringing the satisfaction that the drop-in will provide.


 
Trashman, which drop-in are you referring to? 

From searching this forum I've seen 3 that are still being sold:
The first is the Drop-In Module for the Maglite 2-3 D from Malkoff Devices (240 lumens for $55). http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=2
The second is the P7 Drop-in from Malkoff Devices (700+ lumens for $120). http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=27
The third is the 3P7-Drop-In from Elektro Lumens (2100 lumens for $140). http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=elektrolumens

Obviously the 3P7 Drop In is the best bang for your buck, but it seems like an awful lot of output for a police patrol light. I often use my flashlights inside small residences and the light might actually bee too bright.... Any comments?

I also saw on other threads that Gene Malkoff made a few LED Drop Ins for the SL20X at one time. Does anyone know if he's still doing those? (I apologize for getting off the subject of the thread title...)


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## Al Combs (May 26, 2009)

So what about the TLE-300? You indicated your buddy has one of these and that you were impressed by the output. It was only $110 for the module, the battery and the charger. That's not a bad price for 600 lumens. Are you no longer interested in that? If you buy a P7 drop-in for $10 more, you still have to buy batteries and a charger. True it is slightly brighter.

I reread my other post again and wondered if maybe you thought I meant the TLE-300 was only for the MagCharger? If so, sorry for any confusion. There are two different versions of it. The TLE-300M fits the regular 3D MagLite. And the TLE-300MR fits the MagCharger. The BatteryJunction kit I linked to is for the 3D Mag that you have. They also sell just the TLE-300M for $61.50 by itself. You could also get a 9*AA to 3D battery adapter here or here if you didn't like the battery stick in the TLE-300 kit. The FiveMega battery adapters have the added advantage of a built in charging jack so you don't have to take the batteries out of the adapter when they need charging.


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## Justin Case (May 26, 2009)

In a 3D Mag, a 9AA->D adapter could present an initial voltage of about 9*1.45V, or 13.05V, which exceeds the listed 12V max of the TLE-300M. I have no idea if that 12V max is a hard or soft limit, but one should check first.

After my experience with my SureFire 8NX and its oddball battery stick requirement, I personally shy away from proprietary batteries. For me, if the TLE-300M can't run in my light using standard cells (whether D alkalines, D NiMHs, AA NiMHs in an adapter, or even 18650s or 26700 Emolis using a modified Mag tail), I would not buy it.

One caution re: batteries. Open up your Mag, empty it, and look down the tube. Make sure that whatever batteries you use, the battery top terminal will make contact with the positive contact of the Mag switch that you see in the tube. Some batteries use a flattop or a button top that is shorter than standard and can result in poor contact.


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## Deadshot11 (May 26, 2009)

I remember seeing somewhere that the TLE-300M can handle 6-24V. I don't remember where I saw that though. I've been looking for a deal (or probably used sale) on the TLE-300M and plan to run it in my 3D Mag that I already use 9 AA's in.


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## Justin Case (May 26, 2009)

IIRC, the TLE manual says 12V, but I don't know if that's a hard or soft limit.


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## Al Combs (May 26, 2009)

Nice catch on that, my mistake.


Justin Case said:


> In a 3D Mag, a 9AA->D adapter could present an initial voltage of about 9*1.45V, or 13.05V, which exceeds the listed 12V max of the TLE-300M. I have no idea if that 12V max is a hard or soft limit, but one should check first.



I believe this is where you might have seen it. JustinCase is right about the 12 volt limit. Both BatteryJunction and the TerraLUX site say 12 volts is the upper limit. If the cells weren't well rested and if 12 volts is the actual limit, that could be a problem. One simple solution is to use one dummy cell in the 9 cell holder. Even a no load voltage wouldn't exceed 12 volts with 8*NiMH's.

I did a quick search for dummy (batteries) and couldn't find one for AA's, only CR123A's. Here's an old thread suggesting some possible solutions. A simple 2" long piece of brass threaded rod through a hollow plastic tube with a nut at each end should do the trick. I've seen these before but can't remember where.

Perhaps even better is the fact that a brand new 2D MagLite is under 20 bucks. Then a 6*AA to 2D battery adapter would be well within the safe voltage limit.


Deadshot11 said:


> I remember seeing somewhere that the TLE-300M can handle 6-24V. I don't remember where I saw that though. I've been looking for a deal (or probably used sale) on the TLE-300M and plan to run it in my 3D Mag that I already use 9 AA's in.


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## Benson (May 26, 2009)

Al Combs said:


> I did a quick search for dummy (batteries) and couldn't find one for AA's, only CR123A's.


They're out there; I know Lighthound has them.


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## Justin Case (May 26, 2009)

AW sells AA dummies for $5 each.

I see it right now on CPF MP in the Dealer's Corner.


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## Trashman (May 27, 2009)

Thundar said:


> Obviously the 3P7 Drop In is the best bang for your buck, but it seems like an awful lot of output for a police patrol light. I often use my flashlights inside small residences and the light might actually bee too bright.... Any comments?



I was thinking you wanted to flood to search for dropped weapons in a big field or something, but if you'll be using inside small residences, the 3P7 may be too bright. It's very floody, though, so it won't be bright to point that it causes discomfort or obscures what you're looking for, but might be shocking to the residents.


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## rlowe (May 27, 2009)

Thundar:

The TLE-300MR can be modified to fit the SL20X I have 3 of them 2 in SL20's and one in a SL35 with NiMh battery sticks they will run for 2 hours plus in an SL20 and forever in the SL35. I cut the spacer off the plastic front of the TLE-300MR and then turn the aluminum base of the drop in in the lathe at an angle to match the angle on the inside of the SL20 head. If you do this leave the face of the TLE-300MR sticking out of the light head because if it is flush it will just rattle around in there when the bezel is screwed on. you could probably find a machine shop in your area to do the mod. I also replaced the plastic lenses in mine with glass. I carried a SL20X for 25 years and I really like them although you never see them on this forum. I don't understand that. Where I'm from if you are an LEO you carry an SL20 although the younger guys are starting to go to little plastic lights and using Tazers instead of the SL20. I had thought of doing a run of the TLE-300MR's and I may post in the BST section and see what these things will do but as far as I can tell people on this forum don't like the SL20's.


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## Thundar (May 29, 2009)

rlowe said:


> Thundar:
> 
> The TLE-300MR can be modified to fit the SL20X I have 3 of them 2 in SL20's and one in a SL35 with NiMh battery sticks they will run for 2 hours plus in an SL20 and forever in the SL35. I cut the spacer off the plastic front of the TLE-300MR and then turn the aluminum base of the drop in in the lathe at an angle to match the angle on the inside of the SL20 head. If you do this leave the face of the TLE-300MR sticking out of the light head because if it is flush it will just rattle around in there when the bezel is screwed on. you could probably find a machine shop in your area to do the mod. I also replaced the plastic lenses in mine with glass. I carried a SL20X for 25 years and I really like them although you never see them on this forum. I don't understand that. Where I'm from if you are an LEO you carry an SL20 although the younger guys are starting to go to little plastic lights and using Tazers instead of the SL20. I had thought of doing a run of the TLE-300MR's and I may post in the BST section and see what these things will do but as far as I can tell people on this forum don't like the SL20's.


 
Yeah, I've had an SL20X for the past 7 years or so and it's worked out pretty well. The only problem I've had with it is that the battery sticks seem to burn out pretty quickly. In fact, I will have to replace my current one if I want to use it again. 

I'm still trying to decide which LED to buy. The TLE-300MR LED mod for the SL20X that you mentioned, requires too much modifying for me to do (I don't have a lathe nor the expertise to use it). Gene Malkoff emailed me back and advised that he's not doing the SL20X P7 drop-ins right now. I like the look of his P7 drop in for the 3D light, but figure if I'm willing to spend $120, I might as well pony up another $20 for the 3 P7 drop-in by Elektro-Lumens. 

I'll probably end up with the 3 P7 drop-in and eventually get the rechargeable battery and charger for the Mag 3D. Either that or I will go the less expensive route and get the TLE-300M, rechargeable battery and charger for the 3D. I'll wait till next week for my new pay period... I'll keep you gentlemen informed.


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## Trashman (May 29, 2009)

Thundar said:


> Yeah, I've had an SL20X for the past 7 years or so and it's worked out pretty well. The only problem I've had with it is that the battery sticks seem to burn out pretty quickly. In fact, I will have to replace my current one if I want to use it again.



That sounds odd. I'd think the battery would last quite a while. Do they make a fast charger for it and are you using it? Use of a fast charger will definitely limit the life of any battery.


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## Thundar (May 29, 2009)

Trashman said:


> That sounds odd. I'd think the battery would last quite a while. Do they make a fast charger for it and are you using it? Use of a fast charger will definitely limit the life of any battery.


 
Hmm, I don't know which charger I have, but that is definitely a possibility.


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## Thundar (Jun 6, 2009)

Trashman said:


> That sounds odd. I'd think the battery would last quite a while. Do they make a fast charger for it and are you using it? Use of a fast charger will definitely limit the life of any battery.


 
I have the standard charger for the SL20X.


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## TexLite (Jun 8, 2009)

I don't have an SL20X on hand to test right now, but depending on internal diameter, its a possibility that that Fivemega's Black 12AA/3D S/P adapter might fit for 7.2V.

That would allow you to use some of the popular hotwire bulbs or keep the voltage within limits for an LED drop-in.

Also, depending on age, the same 12AA/3D adapter might fit without boring in the 3D Mag. You could run an LED drop-in, ROP High/Low bulbs, or hotwire bulbs in a bi-pin adapter, WA1111, WA1164, WA1274, or Carley 1499, 1057 etc.

You would also then have a rechargeable option for the Mag.

Either one would be simple to do.

-Michael


Edit: If the Mag serial is all numeric, then the adapter should fit. If it begins with a D, it will not fit without boring.


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## JimmyM (Jun 9, 2009)

Thundar,
Do you prefer an LED mod, or a HotWire mod?
The biggest drawback of a hotwire using Li-Ion cells (whatever chemistry), is the charging solution.
I have a 3D (blue) Mag, already converted to run on 3 of KDs D Li-Ion cells and run the Philips 5761 using my PWM regulator. Even if you wanted a turn-key incan solution like this, you'd have to have a proper charging solution for the D cells. But it would deliver an hour or more of runtime.


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## Al Combs (Jun 9, 2009)

I don't know if this will be of any help, the $25 spare battery pack I mentioned in post #19 is also a direct replacement for the SL-20X battery. I couldn't find the spec on the original NiCad's but I'm guessing about 2 amp hour capacity. That'll give these 3,500 mAh batteries about 75% longer run time than the original one. Being NiMH, these green sticks will have to be cycled a few times to get up to full capacity. BatteryJunction also sells a charger for 28 bucks if you suspect something might be wrong with yours. It includes a car cigarette lighter adapter to charge on the road.

I think Trashman is right about going through batteries "pretty quickly" might be a sign of a problem. It's supposed to last 1,000 charges. So even if you charge it every night it should last ≈ 3 years. Do you charge it when it gets a little dim, or when it's completely dead? NiCad's are tricky that way. If you make it a habit of charging the battery when it's half depleted, that will become its capacity. A.K.A the "memory" effect. But if you run them below 0.9 volts per cell consistantly, it will damage them.

If you are interested, here's a good read from BatteryUniversity. In the paragraph, "What is the best cycling pattern?" he mentions that NiCad batteries used in satellites are charged after a 10% discharge and cycled to full discharge every 30 cycles to avoid memory effects. They get 10's of thousands of cycles out of their batteries with that regime. I'm guessing NASA would pay to find out something like that.


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## Thundar (Jun 9, 2009)

I discharged and then charged my SL20X every week without fail, so I'm assuming that reduced the battery life. 

A few minutes ago, I put it in the charger and the charging lights came on very dim, then eventually turned completely off. When I took it off the charger the flashlight's charging leads were hot. I took that to mean that the charger is working, but the battery is dead. 

I would obviously prefer to do an LED mod on my SL20X instead of my Mag 3D since the SL20X came with a charger and I have a dimmer tailcap for it. I suggested modding the Mag 3D because it seems like it has a lot more options (especially high-powered ones)...


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## Al Combs (Jun 9, 2009)

That's not necessarily a bad thing. How deep was that discharge is the issue there?


Thundar said:


> I discharged and then charged my SL20X every week without fail, so I'm assuming that reduced the battery life.



I looked at the specs on the SL-20X. It says it's a 10 hour charger. If it is a 2,000 mAh NiCad (just a guess), that's a rate of about 250 ma once you allow for heat dissipation. My AA's charge at a rate 8 times higher than that and only feel warm to the touch. If the battery or the wires feel hot, there is definitely a problem. If the light doesn't work or only for a short while, the battery is bad. But it could also be the charger is no good and caused the problem with the battery. Do you remember what it felt like when the battery was new? Did you ever notice?

If you do buy another battery stick while waiting to see what you get next, check if it comes off the charger hot. Or if the wires get hot. If it does, buy a new charger right away. Does anyone else where you work have the same light? Maybe you could borrow their charger just to see.

Do you have a meter? NiCad's have slightly lower voltage than NiMH off the charger. A five cell pack should read about 6.5 volts fully charged, no load. That's about 1.3 volts per cell. Or slightly over 6 volts with a load.


Thundar said:


> A few minutes ago, I put it in the charger and the charging lights came on very dim, then eventually turned completely off. When I took it off the charger the flashlight's charging leads were hot. I took that to mean that the charger is working, but the battery is dead.


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## Thundar (Jun 10, 2009)

I actually haven't used my SL20X for about a year and a half just recently got it out of storage. I was off of patrol duty after getting injured on the job and didn't really need my flashlights while doing investigative and administrative work. I didn't charge my SL20X much if at all during this time, but did discharge and charge my Stinger HP and XT/HP (which both still work fine.) That might have had an effect on the battery. 

BTW: I tried to charge it all night last night, and it still won't light up. The charging lights on the flashlight body were on very dim, however, during the whole time I was charging it. 

I will probably buy a replacement battery for the SL20X as this will work in a Mag 3D as well in case I go that route. I am still trying to find a high powered option for the SL20X, but it seems that after short runs, most manufacturers don't make any LED drop-ins for the light.


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## Al Combs (Jun 11, 2009)

I think I understand. After many years of faithful service, it's not so much that your SL-20X is worth saving as the sentimental value. Why not?

I had another thought about rlowe's post #33. I know you said you don't own a lathe. But there was a thread started by greenLED called, "Modding & other stuff I'm willing to do for free". Post #81 in that thread by precisionworks offers free modding including use of his lathe for one of a kind projects. That was over a year ago, so perhaps people have given him reason since then to change his mind. OTOH, he never edited the post to withdraw the offer. It couldn't hurt to to send him a PM and ask. Or perhaps make a token offer in the context of what it would be worth to you. Also send a PM to rlowe asking for greater detail of his mod for use in the SL-20X to pass along to precisionworks with your request.

You could make the same request in the Custom & Modified forum. Perhaps ask in either the B/S/T or one of the many modder/machinist sub-forums there. The worst they can say is no. Well, that's not really true.:devil:


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## Thundar (Jun 14, 2009)

Well, I just tried ordering the 3P7 drop in from Elektro Lumens, but did not find an option to pay with credit card. The only options that I saw was through Paypal. I tried twice and only saw the Paypal option. I don't normally use Paypal and don't know if you can somehow order through Paypal with a card, or if you need to have an amount in a Paypal account or how it works. 

Does anyone know if EL takes both or am I going to have to try to use my wife's Paypal account?


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## Thundar (Jun 15, 2009)

Sooooo... I finally ordered the Elektro Lumens 3P7 drop in. I also ordered the a 6V NiMH battery and charger. I will advise how it works when I get it all in.


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## Al Combs (Jun 15, 2009)

Please don't say the 6 volt battery is for the ElektroLumens drop-in.

The 6 volt NiMH pack BatteryJunction sells was only for the TerraLUX TLE-300. That drop-in has a built in boost regulator to work with the K2's it uses. Or as a replacement for your unmodified SL-20X. ElektroLumens indicated he felt 3P7's in series was the better option for these. He has the drop-in or a complete 4C light with spacer tube. Both the 4C and the 3D are for use with 3*18650's. They have 12.6 volts no load or 3.7 volts*3= 11.1 volts as a battery pack. The 6 volt NiMH doesn't have near enough voltage to power the ElektroLumens drop-in. Also for 3*18650's to fit in a 3D Mag, you have to modify the tailcap spring and get a spacer tube.

What I'm trying to say is the 6 volt battery is the wrong thing for the ElektroLumens drop-in. You need to get some 18650's and read about the dangers of using Li-Ion batteries. The BatteryUniversity link is good for that. Protected cells are much safer. Something like AW's newest 18650's would be good for that. You'll also need to get a special charger for them. The ones listed at the bottom of the Lighthound link are not bad. If you have the extra cash, the Pila IBC is a much better charger.



Thundar said:


> Sooooo... I finally ordered the Elektro Lumens 3P7 drop in. I also ordered the a 6V NiMH battery and charger. I will advise how it works when I get it all in.


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## Al Combs (Jun 15, 2009)

If you go a little more than half way down this StefanFS post, you'll see what modifying the tailcap involves. 3D cells are ≈ 180 mm long. An 18650 is only 65 mm long without the protection circuit. So 3*18650's are roughly 200 mm long. That explains the need for modification. For a spacer tube, it doesn't need to be more complicated than a rolled up piece of cardboard.


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## Thundar (Jun 15, 2009)

Al Combs said:


> Please don't say the 6 volt battery is for the ElektroLumens drop-in.


 

Yep, it sure is. 

I had already ordered the 6V battery for my SL20X when I got the OK to buy the 3P7 drop-in. I assumed since Wayne says on his site that alkalines will work in his flashlights and drop-ins, that the NiMH battery pack would work at least as well. 

I ordered both the battery and charger from Battery Junction. If these are not ideal (or won't work at all) for the light I will see if the company will exchange them for more appropriate types.... I'll have to call in the morning.


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## Thundar (Jun 15, 2009)

On Elektro Lumens order page, it states that for the D cell lights, any NiMH battery will work. Is this incorrect?


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## Thundar (Jun 16, 2009)

I emailed Elektro Lumens and asked for Wayne's advice on whether to exchange the battery pack or not. I also emailed BatteryJunction and advised them of my situation requesting that if I need different batteries they exchange the battery pack and charger with more appropriate ones. 

Following are batteries and a charger on BatteryJunction.com that seem to meet Wayne's specs on his order page: 
Titanium D Size 12000mAh NiMH Rechargeable Battery Button Top 
http://www.batteryjunction.com/tpeh-td12000.html
Titanium BC2-HU Universal NIMH/NICD rechargeable battery charger 
100-240V AC & 12V DC Car Cord 
http://www.batteryjunction.com/v1ec-bc2hu.html

Are these batteries and this charger applicable?


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## Al Combs (Jun 16, 2009)

Thundar said:


> On Elektro Lumens order page, it states that for the D cell lights, any NiMH battery will work. Is this incorrect?


Wayne's Modified [email protected] order page does say to use NiMH or even Alkaline for the P7 3D-Mag. But that's for a single P7 LED. The description field for the triple P7 drop-in says to use 3*18650 Li-Ions. Maybe after looking at 3D and triple for so long...:thinking:



Thundar said:


> Following are batteries and a charger on BatteryJunction.com that seem to meet Wayne's specs on his order page:
> Titanium D Size 12000mAh NiMH Rechargeable Battery Button Top
> http://www.batteryjunction.com/tpeh-td12000.html
> Titanium BC2-HU Universal NIMH/NICD rechargeable battery charger
> ...


Well the short answer is again no. Those would be excellent for the single P7 light. Look at it this way. If a single P7 requires 3*D-cell NiMH to drive it, then a triple in series will take 9*D-cells. MagLites are roughly 134 mm longer than the batteries contained in them. So if a 9D existed, it would be (60*9)+134=674 mm or 26½ inches long. Now that's a flashlight.

There is one other possibility. You could buy one of the 9*AA battery holders from fivemega or mdocod I mentioned in post #25 of this thread. With a set of 9*2,000 mAh Eneloops, you could expect 20 or 25 minutes runtime. That's a far cry from the 3 to 4 hour runtime you would get from a single P7 and the 12,000 mAh Titaniums you mentioned. But the voltage sag from a AA battery putting out 3 amps should help with the heat build up. Almost as importantly, it would fit in a 3D MagLite.


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## Thundar (Jun 16, 2009)

Here is a quote from the bottom of all of EL's order pages...
"I use D NIMH batteries, 12,000mAh, made by CTA. I use C NIMH batteries, 6,000mAh, made by Accupower. I buy them at Thomas Distributing . As far as I know these are the highest capacity available. 
I use a Maha MH-C808M smart charter, which will charge AAA, AA, C, D size NIMH batteries. Any smart charger will work, and prices vary. Ansmann also makes good chargers. Do not buy a cheapy charger as they use timer technology and will not adequately charge the batteries, and also will take forever and a day to charge them. The same web site sells this charger, or, you can search the web to search for better pricing. 
Any NIMH battery will work. 
Alkaline batteries will work but be about 1/2 as bright, in the high power application flashlights, like the drop-ins, Ultra-Throw, etc. 
Regarding the 18650 Li-Ion rechargable batteries, a brand called 'AW' seems to have the best available, and these can be found here: www.lighthound.com At the bottom of the page is listed a good charger for the 18650 battery. I strongly suggest that only protected 18650 batteries be used. "
​That seems to suggest that the NiMH D's he lists (along with alkaline D's) will be enough to power the light. He does indicate that the alkalines will only give about half the illumination of the NiMH's. 

Al, are you saying the battery stick and even the NiMH D's will not even make the light run at all?


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## Thundar (Jun 16, 2009)

If I do go the 18650 route, are there sleeves that make the batteries fit in a D size body? I'm not overly enthused to use rolled up cardboard in my work light.


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## Thundar (Jun 16, 2009)

OK, I just got Wayne's email. He said that the battery pack's 6V is too much and may actually burn everything up! That would not be bueno. I will be sending that battery pack back, once it arrives. Wayne suggested the NiMH D cells, and stated they would run the drop-in, with higher capacity equaling longer runtime. He said 3.6V is nominal. I know, I know... this info is probably like an elementary school course for all of you, but to me it is doctorate level material..... 

Wayne suggested CTA 12000mAh NimH D's by CTA. I had been planning on using the Titanium rechargeable D cells that I listed above due to the fact that I can get them from BatteryJunction (who I originally ordered the pack from). 

Has anyone had experience with the Titanium batteries that I listed? How about the charger? I've read that the charger won't completely charge these cells due to being timed out. I've read that the Maha C808M charger is the one to get as it will fully charge the cells, but it is pricey...

Anyone had experience with these batteries or chargers?


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## Al Combs (Jun 16, 2009)

I have to apologize for forgetting something. The link I sent you for AW's new type 2,600 mAh 18650 Li-Ions won't work in a D-cell MagLite. They flat flat tops. The spring for the battery contact on the switch is recessed. You need the older style button top 2,200 mAh Li-Ions that Wayne correctly linked to on his order page.


Thundar said:


> Al, are you saying the battery stick and even the NiMH D's will not even make the light run at all?


Well I thought I was until I read your latest post saying Wayne told you a 6 volt stick would burn it up. How can a 6 volt stick have more voltage than 3*18650 Li-Ions? Are we still talking about the 3-P7 drop-in? I know he was talking in his forum thread about perhaps making them 3 in parallel. Is that what you are getting?



Thundar said:


> If I do go the 18650 route, are there sleeves that make the batteries fit in a D size body? I'm not overly enthused to use rolled up cardboard in my work light.


That's a good question. I'm sure there is but I'm not aware of what that might be. Many people use 1" schedule 40 PVC you can get at any hardware store to adapt C-cell Li-Ions to a D sized light. The 3/4" has an ID of 0.804 inches or 20.4 mm. That's less than 2 mm larger than the OD of an 18650. The problem is they don't stack. If you look at the OD of the 3/4" and the ID of the 1", the 3/4" is too larger by 0.021" or roughly 1/50th of an inch. How do you feel about enough duct-tape wrapped around some 3/4" PVC to give a little bit of friction inside the Mag's battery tube? Now after you've stopped laughing, consider that you wouldn't have to contend with the sleeve falling out on the ground when you went to change batteries.

More important than the sleeve there's the fact that you have to modify your 3D Mag's tailcap spring. Did you look at that StefanFS post I sent yesterday? The 3 18650's are about 20mm longer than the 3 D's that were designed for the light. How do you feel about asking Wayne if instead you can buy the 3P7 drop-in mounted in a 4C Mag? It comes with a sleeve and everything you need except the 3*18650's for only $30 more than the price of the drop-in. Just a thought...



Thundar said:


> OK, I just got Wayne's email. He said that the battery pack's 6V is too much and may actually burn everything up! That would not be bueno. I will be sending that battery pack back, once it arrives. Wayne suggested the NiMH D cells, and stated they would run the drop-in, with higher capacity equaling longer runtime. He said 3.6V is nominal. I know, I know... this info is probably like an elementary school course for all of you, but to me it is doctorate level material.....
> 
> Wayne suggested CTA 12000mAh NimH D's by CTA. I had been planning on using the Titanium rechargeable D cells that I listed above due to the fact that I can get them from BatteryJunction (who I originally ordered the pack from).
> 
> ...


I actually have the BC2-HU and the cheaper Tenergy D-cells. I haven't had any problems with either. I thought about the Maha charger. I just didn't have 100 bucks to drop on a charger at the time. The 12,000 mAh Titaniums should be just fine. I've never heard anybody say anything bad about them.


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## Thundar (Jun 17, 2009)

Al Combs said:


> Well I thought I was until I read your latest post saying Wayne told you a 6 volt stick would burn it up. How can a 6 volt stick have more voltage than 3*18650 Li-Ions? Are we still talking about the 3-P7 drop-in? I know he was talking in his forum thread about perhaps making them 3 in parallel. Is that what you are getting?


 
I'm getting the 3P7 Drop In for 3D Maglite. It's the 3rd down on the following page. http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi



Al Combs said:


> That's a good question. I'm sure there is but I'm not aware of what that might be. Many people use 1" schedule 40 PVC you can get at any hardware store to adapt C-cell Li-Ions to a D sized light. The 3/4" has an ID of 0.804 inches or 20.4 mm. That's less than 2 mm larger than the OD of an 18650. The problem is they don't stack. If you look at the OD of the 3/4" and the ID of the 1", the 3/4" is too larger by 0.021" or roughly 1/50th of an inch. How do you feel about enough duct-tape wrapped around some 3/4" PVC to give a little bit of friction inside the Mag's battery tube? Now after you've stopped laughing, consider that you wouldn't have to contend with the sleeve falling out on the ground when you went to change batteries.
> 
> More important than the sleeve there's the fact that you have to modify your 3D Mag's tailcap spring. Did you look at that StefanFS post I sent yesterday? The 3 18650's are about 20mm longer than the 3 D's that were designed for the light. How do you feel about asking Wayne if instead you can buy the 3P7 drop-in mounted in a 4C Mag? It comes with a sleeve and everything you need except the 3*18650's for only $30 more than the price of the drop-in. Just a thought...


 
I'm actually glad that Wayne suggested the rechargeable D cells as I wouldn't be comfortable doing too much surgery on the mag's tailcap. If I had gone with the 18650's, however, the PVC would have been the route I would have taken. 



Al Combs said:


> I actually have the BC2-HU and the cheaper Tenergy D-cells. I haven't had any problems with either. I thought about the Maha charger. I just didn't have 100 bucks to drop on a charger at the time. The 12,000 mAh Titaniums should be just fine. I've never heard anybody say anything bad about them.


 
I've read that the BC2-HU works, but that you need to charge the batteries twice, if they have that high of mAh capacity, to get around the automatic timer cut-off.

I'm not going to spend the money for the Maha as $100 is out of my range. Does anyone know of another charger that will work?


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## Thundar (Jun 17, 2009)

How about the "Ultra Fast & Smart MD-3000 Charger" from Titanium? I can get that and 4 of the NiMH D cells for $70 from BatteryJunction. This looks like a winner. Does anyone have any experience with it?

Here's the link: http://www.batteryjunction.com/combo-md3000-4d.html


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## Thundar (Jun 18, 2009)

Well, I ordered the Titanium Battery & Charger Kit Ultra Fast & Smart MD-3000 Charger + 4 D Batteries. The batteries are 1.2v, 12000 mAh. I'll let you all know how everything works out.


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## Al Combs (Jun 18, 2009)

Keep us posted...:wave:


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## Thundar (Jun 19, 2009)

I ended up keeping the 6V NiMH battery stick that I ordered from BatteryJunction. I kept it to use with my SL20X as a secondary light. Upon putting the battery in, the light turned on at full brightness. In addition, the charging lights fully illuminated when I put the light on the charger with the new battery. If you remember, my old battery couldn't power the light even after a night of charging and the charging lights only partially illuminated while charging. I therefore know that it was the old battery that was dead and not the charger. 

Al, you mentioned the following in an earlier post: "Being NiMH, these green sticks will have to be cycled a few times to get up to full capacity." 
Can you explain how I should cycle the battery?


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## Al Combs (Jun 19, 2009)

I've seen the initial "cycling" suggestion several times. I have a personal experience that might explain what I meant a little better. I bought a $30 1 hour charger from WalMart that came with 4*2,100 mAh Duracells. Having that experience previously, I fully charged and drained them in a device of my own making. The first charge and resulting discharge gave an estimated capacity of 700 mAh. The second charge cycle was 1,500 mAh. And the third was 2,000 mAh.

The short answer is you don't have to do anything. But the first time you notice it's time to recharge might be sooner than you think or were expecting. Just go ahead and use it and it will get better was all I was trying to say.


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## Thundar (Jun 22, 2009)

Al, you were certainly right. I charged it up the first time and got 65 minutes out of it. On the second charge the light ran for 100 minutes! I don't think the light has ever gotten over 60 minutes on a charge using the old NiCad battery. This NiMH battery is MUCH better!

What are guidelines regarding how to charge a NiMH battery? I can't find that guidelines page... Should I wait to charge it until it completely runs out or just set it on the charger once per week? With my NiCad, I used to discharge it every week before recharging it. Any rules of thumb?


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## Al Combs (Jun 23, 2009)

There is no need to discharge your new NiMH battery before charging. It won't develop memory like a NiCad. Even NiCad's didn't require complete discharge on every cycle. The BatteryUniversity link I mentioned in post #40 of this thread has 2 other useful pages about nickel batteries. This one about characteristics of nickel batteries. And this one specifically about charging nickel batteries. NiMH has more capacity than NiCad and it doesn't suffer from memory effects that NiCad's do. NiMH has a higher self discharge rate than NiCad's. And in general will give less number of cycles than a NiCad will. Also if you let it go dead, it just might stay that way. I had a set of Sanyo AA NiCad's from my RC days on the side discharged for about 10 years. Surprisingly they still worked fine after charging. You could never get away with that using any type of NiMH.

One thing mentioned in the charging nickel batteries link, "A charger for nickel-metal-hydride can also accommodate nickel-cadmium, but not the other way around. A charger designed for nickel-cadmium would overcharge the nickel-metal-hydride battery." NiCad's have a slightly higher termination voltage than NiMH. Did you buy the charger that BatteryJunction was selling for the NiMH green stick? If not at the very least you should remove the battery when the light says it's charged. Don't leave it in the charger.

Best to read the charging link for yourself. And if you have any questions, then ask.


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## Thundar (Jun 24, 2009)

Al Combs said:


> .
> One thing mentioned in the charging nickel batteries link, "A charger for nickel-metal-hydride can also accommodate nickel-cadmium, but not the other way around. A charger designed for nickel-cadmium would overcharge the nickel-metal-hydride battery." NiCad's have a slightly higher termination voltage than NiMH. Did you buy the charger that BatteryJunction was selling for the NiMH green stick? If not at the very least you should remove the battery when the light says it's charged. Don't leave it in the charger.
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Al Combs (Jun 24, 2009)

I'm not sure if this will be of help to your or not. I can't really tell from looking at a picture of an SL-20X if the electronics are in the wall wort or the cradle for the light. You could buy something like this hobby charger from BatteryJuction and hook it up to the cradle in place of the existing one. It uses negative delta V for termination and will only take a couple of hours to charge instead of overnight. Did you read the BatteryUniversity links to find out what negative delta V is? If not never mind, it's a good thing. Plus it's cheaper than the one meant to be used with the green stick.

The downside is I remember you saying you were not too keen on doing modding. It would mean taking the cradle apart to see if there's anything besides wires in there. Removing it if there is. And soldering a similar connector onto the alligator clips from the charger. Even though they tell you not to do that. You could always buy an extra Tamiya connector if you don't want to trash the one that came with the charger. The convenience of not having to take the batteries out of the light when they need charging would be a feature I'd want to keep.

There something else to keep in mind about using NiMH. The fact that a NiCad charger can overcharge a NiMH battery without even making it hot only means it's time for the recycling bin. They are more forgiving than Li-Ion batteries. Li-Ion's can explode when abused. NiMH batteries only die. Buying the recommended charger is more expensive than a new battery if that turns out not to be a good idea.


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## Thundar (Jun 26, 2009)

DDDUUUDDDEEE!!!!!!!! My Elektro Lumens 2100 is BRIGHT!

It does work with 3 D cell alkalynes, but the rechargeable D cell NiMH's make it much brighter.

More later...


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## Al Combs (Jun 26, 2009)

Got a camera / cell phone? Don't forget those beamshots.


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## Thundar (Jun 27, 2009)

I'll get some tonight. Waiting for darkness, my friend. Waiting for darkness.......

BTW: worked great on patrol. I shined it in a tinted truck window and it illuminated the interior pretty well. In addition, I shined it at someone on one subject stop and she was dazzled by it. Good times.


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## Thundar (Jun 29, 2009)

OK, I took some photos and they're stored on a folder in my hardrive... can I upload them without having a url attached to them?


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## Al Combs (Jun 29, 2009)

You can't upload pictures directly to CPF. You need to use a picture hosting site. PhotoBucket.com and ImageShack.us are two good examples. I personally use PhotoBucket. It was easy to join. They didn't spam me.

You need to be logged in to upload pictures. After that a mouse-over on a picture bring up several options. Say you click on Direct Link. The address code will turns blue and you press <Ctrl-C> to copy the location. Inside CPF's message editor you click on the icon that looks like it has mountains in it. I guess that's supposed to be scenery. It's alt-text says Insert Image. Press delete to get rid of the http prefix there (it's already part of the direct link). And finally press <Ctrl-V> to paste your copied address. It's easier than it sounds if you never did it before.


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## Thundar (Jul 20, 2009)

FINALLY... PICS!!! 


From a Streamlight Stinger HP:













From a Streamlight SL20X:












From the Elektro Lumens 2100 3D LED Upgrade:












Sorry it took so long, I was on vacation for awhile. 
As you can see, the EL 2100 has a LOT of flood. It works wonderfully. 

FYI: The tree was 55 feet from the camera.


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## Al Combs (Jul 20, 2009)

It certainly does light up that yard.


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## [email protected] (Jul 20, 2009)

Nice beamshots! :thumbsup:


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